Marriage Builders®
Hey everyone-my best friend told me about this website and she raves about it so I thought I would post my problem. I just found out about a week ago that my husband confided in another woman while overseas in Iraq and it led to him kissing her. At 1st,he only said it was once and then he came back and said it happened 3-4 times. He still swears, to this day, that it did not go any further. He did fess up about it, which could be a plus, b/c there is no way I would have ever known about it unless he would have told me. He is coming home in Dec. "to talk". He has said that he has made no contact with her after she "freaked and backed off" and that he does not have feelings for her and it is not going to go anywhere with the two of them. But he is confused about what to do. He does not know "what he wants". I have backed off from him and stopped w/ the questions about the altercation but I have no idea on what to do, how to act, or what to say when he comes home. He is only going to be home for about 12 days and then he has to go back. I am very confused and feel very lost right now. I was hoping you guys could help me out and steer me in the right direction. I feel like this marriage is salavagable. We have only been married since Jan. and he left 6 weeks after we got married. I am not sure he wants to salvage this or give this marriage a chance. Please help!!!!
Welcome to MB. To start with, you could go over to the Just Found Out board and look at the permanent posts stuck to the very top. They will get you started and then you can come back here and ask some specific questions. Good luck.
Mulan
ok thanks mulan for replying.
I am sorry but to tell you but...

He says it was only "flirting"and that he's not seing her.. What is he confused about? How can he not know what he wants?

I think there might be more then he's telling you. Be aware. Sorry you're here.

Be strong, you really need it. Any chance he can come home and stay?

Any friend there with him you can talk to? Anyway to get any info about her? Who is she, married, etc? Anyone to expose it there?

Read around as much as you can. Prepare yourself for the wrost. Take good care
If he is in the military his CO can and will help you. They frown on this kind of thing. Affairs are against military law.

He is playing you right now and needs to be brought to his senses pronto. See if his little "fling" that he is confused about is worth his career.

BTW, in my experience, when they say they are confused it is usually a sign that they have done more than they are telling you.

Linda
Bump for help and support for LoveGod. She has posted on a couple of threads looking for support and "feeling neglected".

I think she's looking for Plan A advice, and also feeling very alone since her husband is still away for another month. I know it's very hard for her when he is so far away.
Hey...She is gone...Her contract is over and she has left Iraq to come back to the states...They are DOD contractors...There is noone over there that I can talk to except his friends and that won't work, I'm sure. When he says he is confused, he says that he is so unhappy with himself and has been for years. He has serious issues with commitment and being close to someone which stems back from a terrible childhood. Thats why he left to go back overseas 6 weeks after we were married. He is very uncomfortable in his own skin. And he does things to try and fill that void. ie, buys cars and keeps them for 6 months, buys clothes that he doesn't need, gets close to a woman and then backs off and runs (at least he married me..lol..but then left)...etc etc...As far as I know, he has not had anymore contact with this girl. And again, this is what he is saying to me. I can't really believe what he says right now. But the issue is, he is coming home in Dec. for 12 days and I want to know how to make the best of Plan A while he is here. He will not be home again until March. Help!!!
Here is the best Plan A advice I know:

*******************************************************
"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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He has serious issues with commitment and being close to someone which stems back from a terrible childhood. Thats why he left to go back overseas 6 weeks after we were married.


I am soo sad for you..mainly because it does not sound like your H really wants to be MARRIED or considers himself to be MARRIED.
How long did you know him before marrying him? Sounds like he has a lot of issues that he has never addressed.
LoveGod, your situation is very difficult. You have a man that is fearful of committment, "tries things out" and runs, and is very far away. If you do not have children from this marriage, I strongly urge you to cut your losses. You are in a for a lifetime of hurts from this man unless he gets help for his problems.
What makes him loveable, LOVE GOD?

What attracted him to you to make you want to marry him?
We knew each other about 2 years before we were married this past Jan. No we don't have any children. He is fully aware that he has issues that he needs to figure out and that he needs help. And I know that I cannot force him to get help. He has to do that on his own. Other than this situation and his issues, he is a wonderful provider, thoughtful, kind, generous, affectionate, intelligent, funny, and I can't help but love him very much. And I know this all sounds so mushy but I just can't help that I love him. I don't want to completely give up on our marriage. I am in IC and I want this marriage to work. I just don't know what to do. I am scared to death. I dont know what is going to happen when he comes home for R and R in Dec. He is only going to be home for 12 days and I am sure I will find out more of what happened then but what do I do in the meantime? It seems like a lifetime away before he gets home. And I am not even sure what to do when he does get home....
I understand what you are saying about loving him.

How does he explain leaving you to work overseas?

I would think he would not want to leave you since you just got married.

Have you been together for an extended period..day to day?
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He has serious issues with commitment and being close to someone which stems back from a terrible childhood. Thats why he left to go back overseas 6 weeks after we were married.


I mean....

Did he basically say to you "I'm leaving now because I have problems with this commitment to you"? Here you make it sound as if he told you ..up front...before he left that he did not want to be married..OR are you surmising this from his actions?
No he did not come out and say that he is leaving b/c of commitment issues. He wanted to go over there and make some money for us to put away so we would not have to live paycheck to paycheck and he wanted to plan for our future financially. I am assuming he left b/c of that and b/c of his fear of commitment and abadonment issues. We have lived a total of 5 months together. From Nov. 05 to March of 06. I also think it was a big red flag that he left right after we got marrried too. I would think/hope that he would want to stay w/ his "new bride". I am getting the feeling that I have been "snowed" by him...big time...He acknowledges he has serious issues but I am not sure he wants/thinks he needs help for them. I don't know if I should just cut my losses or fight for this. I can't make this marriage work on my own, it can't work if he is over there, and it can't work if he does not seek help for his issues. I just really don't know what to do. I don't know how to approach the subject w/ him when he comes home Dec. 11th. I am at a loss...
IMO, you are correct that your marriage has a low likelihood of working if he does not FULLY COMMIT to the marriage.

I would talk with him in those terms when he gets home, asking him about HIS PLAN to make a FULL COMMITMENT to the MARRIAGE.

If I were you, I wouldn't FEEL LOVED by him.

When a man is "IN LOVE" with you, he doesn't want to be apart from you.

Have you experienced that kind of loving relationship in your life before?
As you say, his issues are his issues.

I'm trying to encourage you to first take a look at your issues because you can only change yourself and not him.
Insted of being loss you ought to find yourself and fast. When he returns he should see a self assured wife not a wimpy one with a wet tissue.

Keep the value and respect that belongs to your family. View the WS as an enemy and demand the WS return your H to his family.

L.
Hey and thanks...yes you are both correct. I am in the process of working on myself. I have gotten into IC, reading a lot of things on here and just trying to be as upbeat as possible when he and I do talk, which is not that often. I have ordered the book so I am going to start reading that as well. I guess what I am wondering is Plan A even an option when he comes home since he is only going to be home for 12 days. I know this may sound elementary, but I do not even know how to act or what to do when he comes home. I know I should not bombard him w/ questions but I know it is something that we have to talk about. And Mimi,you are right, I do have to find out if he is committed to this marriage. Because if he is not and then he goes back overseas, I guess that is where Plan A comes in or am I to cut my losses and move on?
Are you working outside of the home?
Hey, yes I am...I work 2 jobs actually..No children...
Yes, Mimi..I have felt very loved before but I have always smothered and clung to men for fear of abandonment and being alone. And those are 2 very big issues, along w/ trust, that I am trying to work on now. My dad cheated on my Mom and left so I have serious abandonment and trust issues as well which is why I am in IC. So, I have ALOT to fix on myself too.
Mimi, Orchid and Believer, thank you guys so much for responding to me. I know I am a rookie at this website but you guys have been really great with your advice and I really appreciate it so much.
Good. You can spend this time reading here, and getting calmer. It is completely awful at first, but gets easier. How long did you know him before the two of you married?

Has he been married before?
Hey...we were together for about 2 years before we got married. He broke up w/ me twice before that b/c he got "scared". I think that should have been my wake-up call right there but shoulda, coulda, woulda...Yes, he was married before and his wife cheated on him. It nearly destroyed him so he knows what it feels like. My 1st husband cheated on me too but just left all together. He wanted completely out.
Have all your relationships ended badly? I'm wondering if you are a poor chooser. I used to be.

How was the marriage for the months he was around?

What is his employment history like? It's been my experience that a lot of folks who take a chance in Iraq are very desperate for money.
Hey...most of my relationships have either been ended by me or the guy left me for another woman or cheated. I think I am a poor chooser. I am starting to see a pattern w/ my choices b/c I am afraid to be alone. At least that is what I think is going on. Thats what I am working on in IC. When my H and I are together, things are really good. We have so much fun together, wonderful sex life, we laugh, goof off, like the same things, he is very affectionate and up until 6 weeks ago, I would get endless text messages and emails saying how lucky he is to have me, how much he loves me, how thankful he is to God that I am in his life, how much he misses me, how much he can't wait to get home, etc etc...The only reason, other than being afraid of commitment, that he went overseas was to make a big chunk of change and put it away so "we" wouldnt have to struggle when he came home. His contract is up in March but he "obligated" himself to this supervisor's position until next Sept. Not sure what he is going to do.
It sounds to me like he DID go to make money, and then being far away, got weak with this OW.

Does he send money home?
He pays for our rent, 1200.00 a month and my car payment, 450.00 a month. And he paid 9000.00 of all my credit card debt. I pay the utilities each month. I think he got weak too. I want to say it is situational b/c of all the crap he sees over there and the stress of seeing dead bodies and mortars landing 200 yards away. I want to say that he became very weak. It still does not justify it though. I have ordered the book, but can you give me a quick overview of Plan A and Plan B? I guess more Plan A than anything. I want to know the tools to try and make him realize that he screwed up royally and knows he has a good thing at home, know what I mean?
Forget about Plan B - that is for much later.

Here is something that was posted today about Plan A -

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

* First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.
* Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.
* Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

Now, Plan B IS all about you, the betrayed partner. It's about getting you out of and away from a situation that is horribly painful and, let's face it, degrading. Plan B is taking the stance that enough is enough and that although you want the marriage to succeed you will no longer be part of a triangle. And that you care enough about the marriage to know that you need to protect the love you still have for your partner.

Now, nowhere in any of that is the idea that the faithful partner needs to make life easy and comfy for the straying spouse!! No need to bend over backwards to be a doormat. Certainly no need to be afraid to trigger guilt!! Good god!! They should feel guilty!!!
________________________________________
Here's another one -

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, now I have completed most of Plan A according to the above. I am trying to completely eliminate LB's when I talk to him, H has confessed about the EA to me (i didnt bust him on it), so the only info I have is from him (there is no way to get more info about it since he is in Iraq), and the EA has been exposed to his sister, Dad, our minister, my family, our friends, etc. And from what H tells me, the EA only happened from a span of 1 1/2 weeks and the OW is gone b/c her contract is over and she has left Iraq. Now again, this is what he has said to me. There is no way to know the truth except the info I am getting from him. Also, I have done just about everything of the carrot and stick of Plan A. I have let him know how this has affected me, I have let him know that home is a "safe" place for him,etc. etc... So I assume I need to sit back, leave him be and see what happens in Dec.??????
Nope - You need to eliminate anything that he complained about before. One thing you can work on is your credit card useage. The amount that you owed was very high, no matter what you bought.

What I did after finding out about my WH's affair was get busy working on myself. I cleaned the house spotless, organized things, got busy doing the yard, made a garden, detailed the car, did volunteer work, exercised, joined a women's church group, etc.

These things made me feel better, as my self-esteem was in the toilet.
Ok I have done that. I don't have any credit cards AT ALL. And no debt.The only real complaints he had was the way that I spent his/my money (not balancing checkbook, etc.) and the fact that I relied on him for my happiness (which is true). He felt like that was too much pressure on him being over there. And I know that now. I know that happiness has to come from me and that is what I am working on now in IC. I have my own money and I don't ask him for money. He automatically pays for rent and my car payment b/c he knows I cannot afford it w/ the money I make..even w/ 2 jobs. But he and I both agreed to this financial arrangement long ago.
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His contract is up in March but he "obligated" himself to this supervisor's position until next Sept. Not sure what he is going to do.


IMO, I think you need to address this with him when he comes home.

In order for your M to thrive and not be vulnerable to another A, it seems to me that you two most definitely need to be living together as a married couple. I can understand when a couple has NO CHOICE as in military situations. However, your H has already evidenced his vulnerability..and according to the Harleys' philosophy it is essential for you two to meet each others primary ENs. That seems awfully difficult if not impossible for you to do when you are apart like this. Plus, you don't have the advantage of many married many years beforehand. The early years of marriage are difficult even for those who are living together.

So, as I suggested yesterday, some talk with him about PROTECTING YOUR MARRIAGE when he comes home seems to be absolutely necessary.

You say you are not sure what HE is going to do.

This is a COUPLE decision that YOU TWO should both agree upon...


INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOR is included as a LOVEBUSTER....
What kinds of things are you doing to make yourself happy?
Believer, I honestly don't know what to do to make myself happy...i mean, I go to the gym, i am in IC, i love to go to the movies, i have just a couple of friends here since I just moved here in May, I have never really been on my own before so this is very scary..I am not comfortable in my own skin and I am not sure how to get to that point.
Mimi, I understand what you are saying, but what am I to do if he does not want to come home in march? I cannot force him to do it...I can't force him to do anything. He is going to have to want this..But on the other hand, if he doesnt come home in March, I can look at this as an opportunity to allow myself to grow and be by myself and get to know me w/o him in the picture...but then what do I do in Sept. after he gets home...aaaaahhhhhh, I am very confused......HELP
I feel very close to you, because I used to be the same way. I had abandonment issues, and could never be without a man - any man. My IC worked with me until I felt comfortable being alone. This time needs to be all about you working on yourself to be able to feel good alone.

My IC used to tell me that it is very bad to always need a man. Often I would just grab the nearest one, which led to a lot of relationship problems.

You can continue working on you, making a wonderful life for YOU, and hopefully your husband will want to join you.
Hey...yep I am the exact same way...I have dated man after man for all the wrong reasons...I have serious abandonment issues which is why I cling to men. My H has abandonment issues also but he runs instead of clinging...
My IC likened it to being in a muddy puddle, not wanting to be there, and instead of getting out, jumping into another muddy puddle.

Please take this problem as a wake up call. Realize that you are a worthy woman, and deserve a good life. Your husband may join you, but it starts with YOU.
wow, that makes a lot of sense...that is me...so me...now, what i need to know is how do i make the most of the little time that my H is home? what is the best approach to all of this and how do i handle this in the best way to get him to want to recommit eventhough he is going back overseas? he is only going to be home for 12 days but i am not sure we will be together for all 12 days...ie, he may go see his Mom/Dad while he is here....just need a little guidance...I guess I should find out the truth about whether he slept w/ her or not...but I just need someone to get me on the right path since our time is limited.....
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Mimi, I understand what you are saying, but what am I to do if he does not want to come home in march? I cannot force him to do it...I can't force him to do anything. He is going to have to want this..


You are correct. I totally agree with you. He may not want to come home and you cannot force him.

What is important though is for you to try to make clear to him what YOU want and how YOU are feeling about this...which is not different than what any of us are recommended to do when discovering an affair.

The conversation goes BASICALLY something like this, using your own words: "H, I am concerned about what has happened/is happening in our marriage. It seems to ME that us being apart is a major problem and puts our marriage at MAJOR RISK. In order to insure that our marriage is not further ENDANGERED, I FEEL that we need to work on a plan for us to be together AS A COUPLE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I say this because I LOVE YOU and I have made OUR MARRIAGE A PRIORITY IN MY LIFE...I want to work with you on our problems and I DON'T FEEL that we can do this living apart."

Note the FOCUS on the I STATEMENTS.

Then, give him the opportunity to respond. His response will tell you alot. Don't you think?
And BTW..this is one of MY FAVORITE PLAN A POSTS by Ark:

I wrote this to familymatters about plan a this am...and then I read sindy post on plan a...so I"m threadjacking myself...

putting out there some of my musings of plan a..


FIRST thing is that I strongly strongly believe that before you even begin plan A...that you make a time limit for it...with plans to go to Plan B...
that for plan b to be effective you must have a good plan a...and for plan a to be effective and have the stamina to hang in there and give so unconditionally you must have a time frame in mind for plan b.....

Plan A is ALL about the assumption that the WS is still in the affair or in contact...
this is your map to navigating those treacherous waters...

it also is your big moment to diffuse all the excuses WS are prone to use to justify their behavior and choices....

and more you can diffuse their blame...

the bs is "always depressed"
the bs "always wants to talk about relationships"
the bs "is controlling"
the bs "yells all the time"
etc....

the more you remove those things...and the more you remove yourself from any powerstruggles of insanse things...

he said she said..
etc...
the more your disengage from arguements..again the more they have look at their own actions and choices....

here's what I told familymatters..One of the biggest mistakes that people make in plan A is that they begin to meet their spouses needs....and still hold on to great expectations of reward and reinforcement from their spouse....

plan a is ALL about learning to give and do for a bit with NO expectation of ANYTHING in return...

the giving of self and gifts with no strings attached....

I have quoted the silly add campaign for some perfume in the 70's here before...but I think it fits....

It went like this ...

"if you want to get someones attention...
whisper."..

plan a is like a whisper of behaviors and actions...
plan a should not be huge demonstrative expressions of love and romance...

WS are incapable of accepting those things...
part of that is that their actions at the time of continuing an affair are NOT loving and lovable...
and they KNOW it..
sometimes they know it better than their BS...who still want to use words like love to them...

so they get resentful
or shut down
or depressed..
or it solidifies their belief that they are so "bad" or so far gone...it feeds into their excuse and defense of unworthiness...

plan a is about filling the home with love and light in other ways...

it about an upbeat environment without the deep doom cloud hanging overhead..

it is about a home filled with children's activities and joy when applicable and it is about inviting and drawing the wS into those times and activities....

and even when they refuse to come in to the joy...the joy goes on without them...

BS that do a good plan a...say they feel like their WS didn't notice..or only was receptive now and then...and then their involvement and particpation increased...

WS that were handed a good plan a...say they watched and noticed EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING....even when the bS thought they didn't notice a thing....

WS are in great turmoil...and human nature is in conflict to take ALWAYS the path of the least resistance.....

the path of least resistance...is withdrawal and wallowing in self loathing and pity..

the path of least resistance is the OP..for they can not judge and force the WS to see their own actions...because they are as guilty as the other....

so plan A'rs.....need to stop ALL relationship talk..
all talk of love...

you do things that are subtle...
like put a CD in that the WS likes...and just enjoy if yourself...and if they enjoy it also...so be it..
even better yet when it is a blast from the past CD...one that speaks of a history...without blatant insistance that the wS remember this or that....

just history...

the person in plan A...needs to be upbeat and charming...they need to see that the BS is capable of fun and joy...because if all they ever see is a BS lost in the pain..then it will solidify their belief that the pain the WS has caused will never go away...and no one can stand to see the pain they have inflicted day after day...(unless psychotic or sadistic)

the person in plan a needs to engage family and friends in fun activites always always always inviting the wS to join in...
they need to see that things can and could be normal again....

plan a can be leaving a love note...but more impressive a joke...
buy an old farside book and make copies of the really really funny ones....
or the old calvin and hobbs.......
and leave those posted about...
WS seek false joy and laughter....
bring them back to real laughter.....

plan a'rs need to learn to babble back to the insanity that Ws say..and give the babble no leverage or "to die for importance"....

plan a'rs need a time limit of doing plan a with a concrete plan when to go to plan b..
the better the plan b..the better the reality of the consequances of plan b...

make plans to things the wS likes to do..
baseball games..
movies
etc..
and when they dont' want to go..
still go and do them..
be up up up up beat...

draw them to you and your home like a moth to a flame...

work on yourself
find an outside interest that gives you some relief ..

expect nothing nothing nothing from the Ws within a limited time period and free yourself in to the ability to give and do for your spouse better than you ever had....

WS are not used to getting thing with no strings attached....
it will confuse and baffle them...but when they try to use the old "your pressuring me excuse"..it will fall on their empty ears..cause they know that has not been the case..

take them a coffee expresso piled high with whip cream...at work or bring it home to them...and leave it for them..
don't badger them to thank you
don't badger them to tell you how much they liked it..
lay it at their feet and walk away whistling...
find the joy in the act of giving and doing and not in the receptiveness....

hard hard hard hard it is......
but set the time frame and go for it....
anyone can do anything for six weeks..
(except ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

and pray for Gods Grace to enter your heart and home...
pray for serenity...
make you house the home where you and the kids and WS would want to be....


become strong...
become confident
become engaging and charming...

realize that YOU the BS are not lovable or desirable..based on your spouses giving or taking of love...
that you stand alone in this world..
lovabe and desirable...inspite of your spouses...


that's why plan A is all about each and every encounter and glimpse in to you and your home life being as engaging and attractive.....


plan a is all about doing what you can to end an affair....
plan a is built on the presumption that they are in contact...
that's why your contact needs to be better and with more value and depth....

this does not mean that you don't set boundaries on what you will tolerate in your life..

you will not "babysit" the kids so she can go with the OP...

you don't condone any contact..
but you don't powerstruggle it either...


if you think your spouse is going to go out with op don't make it easy for them..don't watch the kids...make plans first...and leave him or her with the kids...etc

hope this helps some..
ark
ok..that sounds really good mimi...thanks..i appreciate that...a lot...
hey Mimi...I got on the radio today and spoke w/ Joyce and Dr. Harley...he strongly advised that my H come home asap for this marriage to even work. I explained about the contract ending in March and he said it was crucial for him to be home and us be together in order for our marriage to survive. So, I guess my question is, how do I present that to my H so it doesn't come out and sound like an ultimatum?
You talked to the expert. Good for you!!!!!

I guess you will need to email your husband and tell him that this separation is too hard on the marriage, and you would like him to come home.

See what he says back.
I say wait to talk to him face to face, saying as I suggested in my previous post.

Howvever, I do have a bias of not being an E-Mail person...
Mimi - I don't know...... She only has a few days with her husband. Would hate for it to be nothing but arguing. At least if she emails him, she will know kind of what he is thinking.

LoveGod - Any chance you can pay for an hour session with the Harleys? It is expensive, but cheaper than a divorce. This is a critical time for you.
I see your point, Believer.
Um, I am not sure what kind of money I have right now. I would have to check. I think it would certainly help me right now. I see my normal therapists tomorrow. He did say, in our last session, that when my H comes home to offer him an "invitation" to make this marriage work. Not an ultimatum. Invite him to have a wonderful life w/ you. I do know, for US Govt reasons, that he cannot, at all, come home until march. I think that is something I can live with. But time will tell and so will his actions. I have to play my cards out very delicately with this and entice him to want to come home and want to make this work. I do not, and I repeat do not, and will not, argue the whole time he is here. I will ask certain questions about what happened and then go from there. But I have promised myself that I will not get angry and yell at him or make demands. That will only drive him away. I am going to make our home safe, fun, upbeat, alive, warm and cozy, and just do my thing. If he wants to join me in my daily activities, then great. If not, then thats ok. I know, in the end, that I am going to be ok. And if he decides that he does not want to come home in march, then I know that at the end of the day I will be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I did everything humanly possible tomake my marriage work. It will be his loss, and another man's gain. I love my H very much and I am still very much in love w/ him but it doesnt mean that I cannot love someone else and be very happy with a man who is willing to commit forever to me. I have emailed my H a few times trying to get some sort of idea of what he is wanting to do but he is in the thick of that war over there, he has had to put it on the "back burner" b/c of everything that he is having to deal with. Dead bodies, coworkers getting shot in the head, drugs/alchohol abuse in his clinic, docs stabbing people in the back, babysitting contract employees who are trying to "work the system" etc etc. And I can respect that. I feel like we should not make any major decisions about our marriage until we are face to face. I will know if this encounter went any further than a few kisses just by looking at him. He cannot lie to me w/o me knowing it. I have known him for too long. So I guess I am stuck in the "holding pattern" until Dec. 11th. Any other suggestions on what I should do when he comes home? You guys have been so great and I really appreciate ya'll keeping up w/ me and responding. You are wonderful!!!
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....MC did say, in our last session, that when my H comes home to offer him an "invitation" to make this marriage work. Not an ultimatum. Invite him to have a wonderful life w/ you. I do know, for US Govt reasons, that he cannot, at all, come home until march. I think that is something I can live with. But time will tell and so will his actions.

Orchid: The invitation is a good idea. You are correct to watch his actions before making your decision. Be prepared NOT to have him do it all in your favor. He could even be complacent.

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I have to play my cards out very delicately with this and entice him to want to come home and want to make this work. I do not, and I repeat do not, and will not, argue the whole time he is here.

Orchid: Not delicately but smart. Don't say you will NOT argue with him. You have no idea what a WS will do to MAKE you argue with him. Instead it w/b better to be prepared for an agrument and practice how you will act and react. Learning reverse babble is helpful.

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I will ask certain questions about what happened and then go from there. But I have promised myself that I will not get angry and yell at him or make demands. That will only drive him away. I am going to make our home safe, fun, upbeat, alive, warm and cozy, and just do my thing. If he wants to join me in my daily activities, then great. If not, then thats ok.

Orchid: You can ask the question but WS' learn to be slick with their responses. Often the WS baffle the BS and leave the BS feeling a bit stupid. So practice what you will ask, bounce it off a few who know how to deal with a WS (your MC, your support group who have been through it, this board, etc.).

Don't keep your expectations too high. Aim in a reasonable zone.

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I know, in the end, that I am going to be ok. And if he decides that he does not want to come home in march, then I know that at the end of the day I will be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I did everything humanly possible tomake my marriage work. It will be his loss, and another man's gain. I love my H very much and I am still very much in love w/ him but it doesnt mean that I cannot love someone else and be very happy with a man who is willing to commit forever to me.

Orchid: Good attitude. A WS is a loser. When he figures it out is the mystery. You love your H and you should. It is the WS you shouldn't love.

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I have emailed my H a few times trying to get some sort of idea of what he is wanting to do but he is in the thick of that war over there, he has had to put it on the "back burner" b/c of everything that he is having to deal with. Dead bodies, coworkers getting shot in the head, drugs/alchohol abuse in his clinic, docs stabbing people in the back, babysitting contract employees who are trying to "work the system" etc etc. And I can respect that.

Orchid: While he may be in the 'thick of things' it has been noted that the WS will use anything as an excuse to avoid commiting to anything with a BS. Don't allow his excuses t/b your reasons.

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I feel like we should not make any major decisions about our marriage until we are face to face. I will know if this encounter went any further than a few kisses just by looking at him.

Orchid: Of course not. A WS should NOT be making ANY major decisions. Make sure you identify you will be making a decision with before you make any decision.

Have you identified your personal boundaries?


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He cannot lie to me w/o me knowing it. I have known him for too long.

Orchid: Maybe you can with your H but what do you really know about the WS? Very different critter there.

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So I guess I am stuck in the "holding pattern" until Dec. 11th. Any other suggestions on what I should do when he comes home? You guys have been so great and I really appreciate ya'll keeping up w/ me and responding. You are wonderful!!!

Orchid: You don't have to be 'stuck' you c/b prepared instead.

JMHO,
L.
Orchid: Of course not. A WS should NOT be making ANY major decisions. Make sure you identify you will be making a decision with before you make any decision.

Have you identified your personal boundaries?

hey..I am not sure what you mean by this? And as far as boundaries...can you elaborate a little on this for me?
Thanks
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He did say, in our last session, that when my H comes home to offer him an "invitation" to make this marriage work.


I LIKE THIS!!!
Yea I think so too..I am getting very nervous about him coming home b/c I know there could be 20 different scenarios that could happen. I just hope I am prepared enough to be able to deal with all of them. I just hope he realizes the importance of him being home in March and the fact that we need to be together in order for this to work. Worst case scenario, he wants out, loves this other girl, and thats it...do I still implement Plan A eventhough he is going to be going back in 12 days or do I just cut my losses and move on? Help Mimi!!!!
Implement Plan A. Start calming down. It is very likely that he won't realize the importance of being together. He might say he wants out. He might think he loves someone else.

But you are here, and want to save your marriage. Here is the lighthouse post -

~BE THE LIGHTHOUSE~


Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...

yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..
you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...

you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...

but you know that...
so they can't hurt you right now...
they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....

set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....

without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...

you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...

seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...

no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...

and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...

and eventually they will see that you are the only one...

who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...

be the lighthouse....
The key for me, Love was to take the focus off of my WH and to learn to focus on myself...what I wanted..what I believed in..regardless of what he SAID or did.

You say that you want to work on your marriage..then..continue to share this with him and to display your love and care for him..THAT IS PLAN A...

For you, of course, this will specifically include giving YOUR OPINION that in order for your marriage to be SAVED that he needs to come HOME to live with you in March. He may not agree but, most importantly, you would have maintained your own beliefs and demonstrated your love for him while he was here.

Then, you can feel good within yourself that you have done your part..the best that YOU can possibly do in working on your marriage...
Believer, I like that..about being the lighthouse...Mimi, you are right...my therapists said that I need to learn to tell him my wants and my needs...I didn't realize I had such a problem with all of that until all this happened. Man, you learn a lot about yourself when this kinda crap happens. Also, he did not think it was a good idea to get a keylogger installed so when my H comes home I can see if he is stil keeping in touch w/ her via email or im. He said that if I really want to start over, trusting is going to be very important (which I agree) but right now, I don't trust my H and I am not sure what I wanna do. What do you guys think? I want to do what I can to protect myself just in case the worst case scenario plays out. But I just don't know....
Hey Mimi and Believer...help..I just got an email from my H...here it is....

"are you going to be at work..i thought you were going to be on a trip? Im not going to be there that long....i want to talk but i m not sure im going to be staying at the house... i know you say its safe..but....anyway..well talk more about it later."

What does that say to you guys? That sounds like he has already made a decision that he does not want to work this out....this is what I wrote back to him....

"No I won't be at work...still not sure about the trip yet...Are you not going to stay here? Where would you stay? In hotel? Where would you stay until the 23rd? Dont you think we need some time together to see if this is even something that can be worked out? I am not sure it is but don't you think we owe it to ourselves to try that?"

I don't know what to think,guys,about this...but it does not sound very good....
this was his response to my email back to him...

i wanted to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving. I told you we were going to talk what else can i say? Im not sure how long im going to stay in Asheville, but us talking will be a priority and the first thing i do. Im heading to go get my thanksgiving supper and then to bed..We've been short staffed for the past week so we've been working 15-16 hour days. im heading to sleep...I promise we will talk..


hhhhmmmmm....
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Dont you think we need some time together to see if this is even something that can be worked out? I am not sure it is but don't you think we owe it to ourselves to try that?"


Remember..say what YOU are thinking and feeling rather than ASKING HIM what HE THINKS..Like Orchid says, he's a WS. His thinking is inadequate.

Maybe E-Mail him back, saying something like: "I've been thinking about your E-Mail and decided that I want to work on our marriage. In order for us to do that I think we need to talk face to face and spend as much time as possible together when you come HOME. Of course, I want you to stay in the house with ME....
ok, i emailed him that...we'll see if i get a response...

"I've been thinking about your E-Mail and decided that I want to work on our marriage. In order for us to do that I think we need to talk face to face and spend as much time as possible together when you come HOME. Of course, I want you to stay in the house with ME....
Sounds like he is working a lot and really stressed out. I would also email and ask about how everything is going. Make it a friendly, chatty email.
I have done that too..I did that 3 days ago....
Hey...I know I am full of "what if's" a lot lately...but I am trying to gain as much knowledge as I can....If he comes home, does not want to work it out or is "not sure", is PLan A even an option when he goes back overseas? How do you implement Plan A if he is not even here or is it futile?
Plan A means getting rid of any of your habits that he objected to, and making you a better person. You stay in Plan A, no matter if he wants to work on the marriage or not. They often don't.

There have been tons of people here that did it, even when their spouse wanted nothing to do with them.
So if he wants out, do I file for legal separation or just continued to stay married even though he doesn't want it?
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So if he wants out, do I file for legal separation or just continued to stay married even though he doesn't want it?

He wants out? Let him do the walking. That includes all the paperwork. You get yourself secured financially and get support for yourself and your family.

L.
Hey L..see that is where I am stuck...He pays for the rent and my car payment...I cannot make those payments with the money I make at my 2 jobs....And he makes about 9000.00 a month over there...yea, u read it right, 9000.00 a month...And I am not sure he wants out...I don't know that yet....I won't know until we talk and I still may not get a straight answer from him then....he is so wishy-washy that I may not get a straight answer from him. If I tell him I want him to come home in March so we can work on this, he may "have to think about it". Unfortunately for me, I am financially dependant on him right now and I hate it!!!! So I really don't know what to do.....
Wait it out. They are ALL wishy-washy. He makes GOOD money, no wonder he wanted to go to Iraq.

In the meantime, stay in Plan A. There is no hurry for anything.
Thats true...true true....so I should just let him keep paying for the rent and my car as long as I can? Well I guess I can answer that questions myself b/c I have no choice really...
You can get your life in order, take care of things you need to do, and make a good life for yourself. Expect that your husband may say he doesn't want to be married. That is a consequence of the EA. But chances are good that he will wake up. You just have to be willing to stay calm, and not panic.
OK..I will certainly follow that advice....I will try to make this a good trip when he comes home and be calm, relaxed,and act happy and tell him my needs/wants for this marriage...but in a loving way...if he still wants out, then he can go back to Iraq and I will go from there...
And he may say he wants out, go back to Iraq, and change his mind. He is under a lot of stress right now, and that causes lots of problems.

But you will be fine. Just don't think this thing is going to be solved quickly. That is the mistake most folks here make.
This is the email he wrote back to me after I told him I wanted to work on our marriage and that I want him to stay here so we can spend some time together....

"im not staying at the house...im only going to be there a day or so in asheville, then im going to see mom and dad, and tracy..from there im not sure what im going to do. Ill just have to wait and see. I told you we will talk. You know that."

wow....
Don't invite the WS into any more dialogue. They only talk stupid and hurt the BS.

Vent here, keep a journal, work with your support group to keep you occupied, see your MC, read, read, read. But stay away from interaction with the WS. All your convo with him right now will antagonize the WS.

Keep convo to a minimum (bills, important info, etc.) but no R talk. He needs to wonder what u r thinking. Right now you keep telling him and he gets to play around with your feelings like you are the base ball and he is the bat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.
.
So do you think that email was just frustration talking? you think i should not have told him i want to work on the marriage?
You told him because at the time, you felt you needed to. As you can see it did not have the desired result. So plan well and hold back from R discussion. He can't handle R discussions with a real woman.

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. This stuff will test you at every turn.

take care,
L.
OK...thanks L....I really appreciate it....
Where is the OW now?
As far as I know, she has left Iraq...she left a couple of weeks ago...and this is what the H is telling me..I do not know for sure...it could be all a lie and she is still there....It seems like to me he has already made his decision and "checked out"....
I was thinking she could be here, and he may be planning to spend time with her here.

Anyway, there is nothing you can do but ride it out.
possibly..i don't even know where she lives or anything about her...not sure....i have not a clue....
I think it's a typical WS response.

His hope is for you to back off and to give up on him.

Maintain your PLAN.

He is CONFUSED by your response to him.

He says:

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Ill just have to wait and see. I told you we will talk. You know that."


I would even E-Mail him back and say SIMPLY something like:

"You are still welcome to stay at the house. I still want to work on our marriage because I made a commitment to spend the rest of my life with you and I love you."

Now, I think it was a good idea that you E-Mailed him. He knows what your position is and he knows that you have not given up..will not give up..

Think of it as a WAR...you will fight BATTLE by BATTLE...

As, I think, Orchid said, let him be the BAD GUY..as he is...that does all the work to end things....

I think he's being typical WS...and I definitely think there's a plan in place for him to meet with her...

Is there anyway to BUST it?

No idea who she is, huh?

Np idea who she is....not a clue...I might find out more when he gets home....have no idea who she is or where she lives...do you honestly think I should still send him an email even after the response i got on the last one when I told him i wanted to work on the marriage? It seems like he is pissed off that i even mentioned working on the marriage....
Yes...Just a SIMPLE E-Mail this time.

It's GOOD that he's PISSED OFF...

He's PISSED OFF because his PLAN to get you to GIVE UP..didn't work....

YOU ARE WINNING THE BATTLE..so far...

I want you to have YOUR LAST WORD....

It's like when my FWH was calling me after D-DAY..and I was doing PLAN A...saying stuff like.."PLEASE GIVE UP ON ME"....He tried every tactic he could to get me to do just that..FROM MEANNESS..to BEGGING.... TRYING TO PROVOKING ME INTO ARGUMENTS....YUCK....
OK, I did it...we'll see what he says, if anything at all...I cannot even begin to thank all of you for helping me out w/ this...If it had not been for you guys, I would have given up, given in, and let him walk away...But you guys have taught me so much in the past 3 weeks that I never ever had a clue about...Thank you for helping me and sticking by me..I appreciate it more than you will ever know.....
I guess another thing that concerns me is if he cuts me off financially....He pays the rent on our house and my car payment...he knows that I cannot afford those two payments...The rent is in both of our names but my car is in my name....Also, I am his complete power of attorney so I can access his bank accounts if I absolutely have to. But they tell the guys overseas to get a seperate "secret" account, "just in case". I am not sure if he has one or not...I do get his bank statements every month and nothing seems out of the ordinary on them. Just a few things he bought online, ie clothes and medical books, which he told me he was going to buy...I just need to protect myself and if he gets sooooo mad b/c I won't give up on him, I am afraid he may make that rash decision to completely cut me off....My sis-in-law is a divorce attorney so I do have her on my side as far as info..But I was just wondering from anyone else's experience on here on what I should do...
That's why this place is so great. Others that have been in your place will encourage you not to give up. That stops a lot of divorces.

And the strange thing is that whether your marriage is recovered or not, you will be a happier and stronger person.
OK, I guess another thing that concerns me is if he cuts me off financially....He pays the rent on our house and my car payment...he knows that I cannot afford those two payments...The rent is in both of our names but my car is in my name....Also, I am his complete power of attorney so I can access his bank accounts if I absolutely have to. But they tell the guys overseas to get a seperate "secret" account, "just in case". I am not sure if he has one or not...I do get his bank statements every month and nothing seems out of the ordinary on them. Just a few things he bought online, ie clothes and medical books, which he told me he was going to buy...I just need to protect myself and if he gets sooooo mad b/c I won't give up on him, I am afraid he may make that rash decision to completely cut me off....My sis-in-law is a divorce attorney so I do have her on my side as far as info..But I was just wondering from anyone else's experience on here on what I should do...
I also have the feeling that my H is still IC w/ the OW...I am not sure of it but I get the feeling he is...If he comes home and refuses to give up contact w/ her, what am I supposed to do? He is going to go back overseas and still remain in contact w/ her either via phone or email, unless she is still there...I am not sure what to do at that point? Any advice???
I just got back from Iraq, so I'll be able to answer some of your questions. (3 weeks since DDay, 2 weeks into plan A)

You asked about what to expect when he comes home on leave. One of the oppenning lines from the movie Apocalyse Now exlained my feelings, "When I was here I wanted to be there. When I was there, all I could think of was getting back into the jungle." Replace the word jungle with the word desert. While I was with my wife and kids everyday, I wasn't really there. Expect him to be suffering from post tramatic stress syndrome.

As far as him being able to leave early, yes he can. I left a month early to try to save my M after finding out WS was having an affair. As a contractor, the company can not force you to stay. The company may try to say otherwise. About the only thing that they can really hold over your head is any bonus for completing the contract. He may feel loyalty to the country, the soldiers, and the company.

I'm can only speculate on whether he is still in contact with the OW. Most of the people that I knew had only one thing on their minds when they were getting ready to leave, and that was home. I have a hard time seeing someone start a relationship right before they leave. But the situation down there is ripe for affairs. There is opportunity and the basics needs that are hard to meet during long distanst relationships makes affairs common in Iraq. Some people just get lonely. Email and phones calls are just not enough sometimes. Some people look for comfort as a way of dealing with all of the stress.

While the money that can be made in Iraq for some contractors is good, is it really worth losing a M over? I didn't think so.
Welcome Monsterlab - Glad you are here. You will be very helpful to LG.

LG - I think you DO have to take into consideration that your husband and you are living different lives. You will never know what he has gone through, and he won't know how it has been for you. That is a recipe for disaster.

The affair may have been a way to deal with all of the stress, like Monsterlab stated. But you know your husband better than the OW.

I think I would continue emailing him, comforting him, and supporting his work. He married you for some reason, and he needs you now.
Hey MonsterLab and thank you so much for responding to me...You are going to be very helpful to me, I think...I guess you have read from the very beginning on how everything started etc etc...Do they advise you guys to get a secret banking account "just in case". I have heard that...I am not sure what is going on w/ my WH...And I have told him over and over again that I have no idea what is going on over there and I wish I did but I can't begin to understand what it is like...I can't even imagine what he sees... I am sure he sees a lot...If you want to email me directly, I can certainly tell you what company he is w/...I don't really want to divulge all that on here...But any info you can give me will be so much appreciated!!!! And believer, thank you for hanging in there w/ me...And I will certainly take your advice..you seem to know a lot more about this than I do and I appreciate your input very much....
Yes, it was probably recommended to him to setup a seperate bank account. This isn't something official, it's more of letting him know that being gone a year is known to cause problems and he's getting advise from people who have learned through experience, whether it's their own or someone elses. Divorce rate amoung U.S. Army officers is well over 50% right now, so he's probably heard a lot of horror stories. As has been mentioned on this MB, the common experience for someone in the military who is going through this is some sort of Dear John letter or talk followed by a quick emptying of the bank account.

I was told to create a seperate account before I left but I never did.

Whether he has or not, you'll have to find out. If you have access to bank statements, then you'll have to look at them. If you can look at his pay statement from the company, even better.

It's a difficult subject for you to bring up. If you question him about it too much, he may think you are planning of emptying his bank account. One of the deciding factors for me to leave early was I thought my WS was going to do that to me. She started talking about how all of the money I'd made was hers because she'd helped me earn it by being M to me. It's difficult to contact the outside world while in Iraq. Calling banks in the U.S. means making calls in the middle of the night which may or may not get through, voice quality sucks so it's sometimes difficult to understand someone during a phone call. It's very difficult to setup a new bank account while in Iraq. If he sets one up while on leave....
Can he not set up an account online? I do get his monthly bank statements but not his paystubs...And I look at his bank statements and nothing is really out of the ordinary...I am not going to question him about it b/c he may get alarmed...I just wish my H would realize that the money is not worth our marriage but I am not sure he does...he is so scared of commitment and closeness which is why he left 6 weeks after we got married....But he's not going to be there forever, but I don't know that I can wait forever....he just seems so angry and depressed...He has been over there since 10/04...he came home 11/05, our house burned and then he stayed here until 3/06...and his contract is up 3/07 but when he took this sup's position, "we" agreed on 09/07..but kissing this OW was not part of that agreement....so all bets are off as far as I am concerned....but I am not sure he will come home in March but I so want him too..I know I can't beg...but how do I make him realize that our M is not worth the $ ?
Do you live in NC?
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Well he may not know that laws are in my favor...and even if he does, don't WS's just not care about that? Or is that a factor in their decision making? And how do I get a legal separation if he is overseas? I am not sure how to go about doing that...of course, that is the last thing I want, but I am talking way down the road...How long am I supposed to keep up Plan A, when he is not sure what he wants, and he goes overseas? Doesn't "outa sight, outa mind" play a huge role in this? I am just not sure what to do about Plan A if he wants out or "is not sure". Mimi? Believer? anyone? advice?
Plan A includes NEGOTIATING the end of the affair.

He probably wants to TALK TO YOU about ending your marriage.."letting him go"...

I'm saying to let him know that HE will have to proceed with this and if he does that you will have to PROTECT yourself LEGALLY and request what is LEGALLY AND RIGHTFULLY YOURS...

This is part of ERASING THE FANTASY ASPECT OF THE AFFAIR...

Talking about this stuff wtih my H began the process of MAKING THE AFFAIR REAL..and making him have to REALLY SEE AND LIVE WITH what he was doing...
Ok, now what if the affair is over and she is really gone from Iraq BUT he does not know "what he wants to do". ie, be married?, be committed b/c of his fear?, come home in March, etc etc. I guess I just need to know the best way to approach this when talking to him b/c this might be a very good possibility that this actually happens...He has run b4 b/c he got "spooked"...twice actually...he is very afraid of closeness and commmitment...i know i have asked alot of "what ifs" but I am trying to be prepared the best way I can since he is only here for 12 days..and according to him, he is NOT going to be spending that much time w/ me..at least thats what he says this week....
Love,

I'm certainly not psychic BUT I've been living, studying and coming to an understanding of this long enough to come to a strong hypothesis....

I think that the A is not ended and he is planning on meeting up with her when he comes home...it would be great if you could spoil their plans...

What about the folks that he is supposed to be visiting in Asheville? What about telling them that he is having an affair? That's EXPOSURE. How about checking on whether is really going to visit them?

The key is to FOCUS ON YOURSELF, Love. It is such a hard lesson to learn. I know. As you have already said, YOU can't MAKE himt DO or SAY ANYTHING. You can't make him change into a different person. You must have known that he was like this when you married him. You did not expect to CHANGE him, did you? What YOU CAN DO is to make it so that he can't help but be AFFECTED by YOU...the CHANGES in YOU.

Also, as indicated above, YOU can STRATEGIZE to make it DIFFICULT for him to CARRY ON with his AFFAIR.
Mimi..I am the only one he is coming to see here...His mom and dad live down near the coast...his sister lives near Raleigh...And they all know about the A...As far as this OW, I don't know where she lives or anything about her..Yes, he could be planning on seeing her...I am taking that as a strong possibility but unfortunately, I don't know one thing about this OW to even begin to find out anything, ie..where she lives, if she is really back, etc etc....and you are right Mimi, i am sure you have repeated yourself to me 1000 times, but I am just in a very low place right now and a rookie at this....thank you for being so patient w/ me
Do you know any of his friends or coworkers in Iraq that you can E-mail to find info?

Also, I would send him short and sweet E-Mails saying stuff like..."I'm looking forward to seeing you soon"....
um, no....he has guys in the clinic but they will cover for him....i just talked to him actually, and he told me that he was not going to see her when he was in the states and all contact has been over w/ her since she left a couple of weeks ago...hhmmm...well of course, i don't really believe what he says right now but anyway...i guess i need to get a keylogger? what do you think? my IC said i shud not and that if i want to work this out, i have to learn to trust him again and getting a keylogger is not "learning to trust" .....any advice?
Ooops...BIG MISTAKE...

I should have warned you not to tell him that you are onto him..

Of course, he will lie to you and he will go MORE UNDERCOVER...

Your counselor has probably not worked with cheaters before...

He/she is ABSOLUTELY WRONG about this...

I had a counselor like that we were seeing while my H was actively engaged in his A..I saw her just the other day and was tempted to tell her how she was MISGUIDING me/us.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

He also left a counseling session with his counselor and spent the weekend with the OW...

SO MUCH for SOME counselors....

If you are PASSIVE, your WH's affair will continue and will be enabled...

THIS HAS TO BE WAR...which includes SPYING...CUNNING....

You are in the RIGHT PLACE HERE..WE'VE BEEN THERE..DONE THAT...
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....i just talked to him actually, and he told me that he was not going to see her when he was in the states and all contact has been over w/ her since she left a couple of weeks ago..


This is BULL...

WHY did he break off contact with her? To work on his marriage? If he does not want to work on his marriage, what would be the purpose of breaking it off?
I don't know...I still think I would give the clinic a try..ask around to find out what woman left there a couple of weeks ago...
He didn't break it off, she freaked out, backed off, and then left Iraq b/c of her contract being up...this is what he has told me....hey mimi, do you have a private email? i wanna email the conversation that just happened b/t him and i via yahoo im....if you want, just email me and i will copy and paste it...wanna see what you think about it...
Sorry...

I generally don't do the private E-mailing...for many different reasons...

Can you give the gist of the conversation?

Plus, talking about it out in the open here can help other people and get more help for you...
So he's probably going to pursue her by saying that he's breaking up with you..

You think?
Post deleted by LoveGod
I'll read this when I get chance, Love...

ASAP change the subject of your thread to URGENT HELP NEEDED WITH WH in IRAQ or something like that...

You can do this by EDITING your FIRST POST....
ok, thanks mimi..i know its long..but thank you
U R trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip. That is what the WS is a turnip. NO heart and not feelings.

Notice how it is all about him and his feelings instead of u and your family. That is why you need to NOT discuss these things with him. He stopped listening to you at the beginning of the convo yet you barreled ahead with your speech.

I am not scolding you, I understand because many of us (including me) did the same thing.

Now look back, do you really feel this convo accomplished what you intended? If not, then do NOT have this type of convo UNTIL you know you have his attention.

Keep future Text messages short and sweet. He accuses of you having him spied on, tell him thanks for the suggestion. Do NOT give him ammo. Learn to reverse babble and give him back his guilt. That will either make him volunteer more info (in the strange tug a war the WS likes to play) or make him angry. Either way, it won't be anger you will feel as much. You will feel better because he will find he can't upset you as much as he wants to as a WS.

L.
I want to tell my WH to stand up, be a man, and quit running from his problems...he always does that...when times get tough, he runs, in hopes they will go away...i want to tell him to quit being a coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know u do but right now he ain't listening. Gotta get to you learn about reverse babble. It is a useful tool when used properly.

U game? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.
what is reverse babble orchid?
there's a link to reverse babble in the bottom on Orchids thread
Orchid, where is your thread on reverse babble..trying to find it but I must be blind...and no you are not scolding me,..i appreciate the honesty even if you do have to throw it in my face for me to see it...thats what i need right now is brutal honesty...it will help me see things more clearly....
I'm not orchid, but here it is...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019927
ok, i found it orchid...i am trying to make sense of it now....its interesting....
Love:

I went through your stage early on after D-Day, too.

Many of us have...

You were trying to TALK him out of it...

WSes DO NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO THINK LOGICALLY...

I'll never forget my then WH telling me that "SURVIVING AN AFFAIR does not apply to me"...a man who had been involved in a 2 year PA....

CRAZY....
wow, ur H said that...holy crap!!!! do you think u shud delete the im post? or just leave it up?
I guess I would delete it since it has his name..but I'm paranoid that way... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
ok..thanks...hey mimi, i just got some info that my WH could lose his security clearance if his EA is exposed to the "higher ups" in his company...I am wondering if I should, not so much threaten my WH w/ this info but shud I just casually mention it to him that it can happen b/c of what he has done...remember, he is a DOD contractor, not in the military....or shud i just keep this info to myself?
The chances of a DOD employee losing his security clearance for an EA is probably slim to none.
really? mind me asking how you know this? just curious...and what if it was more than a EA and I have proof it turned into a PA..?
My dh used to work for the DOD. He still works for the gov't and has a security clearance. An EA probably wouldn't cause any problems. Not everyone believes/feels that an emotinal affair exists.

A physical affair, it probably depends on his command. Just like any place, if the people above him don't see anything wrong with it then they will more than likely turn the other cheek.
yea true...i do know that people "above" my WH are having affairs too...it sucks...so i may not get anywhere w/ it...hhhhmmmmm
I've read most of your story. I wouldn't advise using this card yet. Others may feel differently. Were else have you exposed the A? I would start with family, before going to his boss. Can you access his e-mail? Cell phone bills? etc?
LG, to answer your question from another thread, it would be difficult to find out if OW has left without knowing who she is, who she works for, and knowing someone on the ground who could verify things for you.
ok thanks ML, and better-than-ever, the A has been exposed to everyone..his mom, dad, sister, my family, my friends, my coworkers, etc etc...not to anyone in his work though...Since he is overseas, I dont know who to contact over there except HQ which is in the states...but I am going to wait on that though...
u ready to try some RB now? If so, give us the best (aka: worst) WS lines and let's have a crack at it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.
ok lets see...
1. why do you want to stay married to me?
2. you are too good for me.
3. i don't know what i want.
4. i am not sure i want to be married.
5. i am very confused.
6. i don't think i can come home in march.
7. i am not sure when i can come home.
8. you shud not wait on me.
9. you don't need to know anything about the OW.
10. i think we got married too soon.

Now, lemme see what you come up w/ Orchid.... ; )
Hey orchid and mimi, i wanted your input this..my mom, a couple of my friends, and our minister wanted to write my WH a letter of support, on my behalf, to give to him when he comes home from overseas. They want to tell them that they love him, no matter what, and that they are very supportive of this marriage working. They want to tell him not to give up eventhough he is in a bad place, etc etc. Do you guys think this is a good idea or no?
A letter of support for your H is good but not for the WS. Just make sure their letter of support is directed to your H and NOT to the WS. Don't expect him to like it. He may feel like everyone is ganging up on him. Don't let that scare you from their support though. Just wanted you not to get your hopes up.

It is great they want to write him. Just caution them to make sure they are reaching your H's heart and NOT the WS'.

L.
WS' babble and Orchid's RB retort:

WS: why do you want to stay married to me?
RB: I don't want to stay married to a WS. Would you?

WS: you are too good for me.
RB: Yes I am.

WS: i don't know what i want.
RB: Well I know what I want.

WS: i am not sure i want to be married.
RB: Typical Ws response. WS' are not the marrying kind. Now what did you do to my H?

WS: i am very confused.
RB: Yes, you are.

WS: i don't think i can come home in march.
RB: Not sure if I want you home as a WS. I hear Ws' are diffuclt to live with and have a short WS lifespan. This means most don't stay as a WS because this selfish and lying stage is just too hard to live with. The one I want and need home is my real H. Go find him.

WS: i am not sure when i can come home.
RB: (same answer as above).

WS: you shud not wait on me.
RB: I'm not.

WS: you don't need to know anything about the OW.
RB: That's what you think but I know better. Evidently you don't know much about her either.

WS: i think we got married too soon.
RB: .....now you tell me? How dare you. I want my $$ back.

Btw, some of those lines are what my WS gave me. I retorted similar to what I wrote. It took a while to get good at it. I practiced with the bathroom mirror for a while, until I got the hang of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.
Love:

IMO, The Letters of Support will not be helpful.

He will see this as more of the "begging and pleading".. which was the nature of the IM...WSes do not consider that to be ATTRACTIVE. Plus, unfortunately, as you know, REASONING with the WS is also not possible. It's the NATURE OF THE BEAST.

He will likely be more affected by the face-to-face interactions with friends and family. However, if he is anything like my H was, he will AVOID them.

Let's hope and pray, though, that he really does plan to visit them when he comes back to the States.
Orchid, those are great...thank you so much....Ok, well I will tell them to hold off on the letters than...ya'lls input makes sense...I hope he visits them too...I am not sure there is anyway around it since he has not seen them since March and they know he is coming home Dec. 11th...But then again, a WS is capable of anything...I think I am catching on to this crap, finally....
Hey guys...I am starting to get the feeling of being "indifferent"...meaning I am starting to not really give a crap if he comes home or not and when he does I don't really care if he wants to work it out or not...is this normal? Or have I just become numb? I am emotionally exhausted from all of this and tired of thinking about it. I guess I am getting impatient awaiting his arrival so he can drop a big huge bomb on me and the anticipation is taxing me to exhaustion. But now I really feel indifferent. Today is the 1st day I have not cried in 23 days since D-day..am what I am feeling normal?
Read the link in my sig line about the stages of grieving. U will find that your feelings are normal and your mind and heart are getting closer in sync. You will still have days where you will cry but soon that sadness will turn to anger. You will need to learn how to handle your anger and make it productive not destructive.

L.
ok, thanks orchid..i appreciate it....You are a Godsend
Hey Mimi, Orchid and Believer...I have a question....I just got back from my IC and he told me that I need a plan depending on what my WH is going to do when he comes...He says that I need to be able to implement this plan with whatever my WH says to me..He came up w/ 4 different scenarios on what could take place and I wanted to hear from ya'll on what my plan should be.

1. My WH comes home, he wants out, he does not love me anymore, he does not want to be married anymore which is why he is not wanting to stay at the house w/ me.

2. My WH comes home, he loves this girl, they ARE still in contact, she IS still over there and he wants to be with her.

3. My WH comes home, he is remorseful, he is sorry, he wants to work it out, and he will do whatever he needs to do in order for that to happen.

4. My WH comes home, says that the EA is over, nothing else happened but a few kisses (maybe I believe him,maybe I don't) BUT he doesn't know what he wants. He is confused and he is not sure what he wants at all. But he still does not stay at the house, he comes home, lays all of that on me, and then leaves to go back overseas.

My IC thinks that either #1 or #4 is the most likely to happen. Can you guys give me some input on what I should do in these cases? I have a good idea on what I would do if #3 happens, but I am not banking on that considering the tone and words of my WH's im's and emails. It sounds like he has already "checked out". HELP!!! Thank you so much.
Your PLAN is PLAN A..right?..regardless of his scenario...

The scenarios..1 through 4... are about what HE DOES...

We are encouraging you to focus on YOURSELF..

You can only control yourself...

My vote is still for #2 but she is over here and he plans to visit with her....

Regardless, I still say PLAN A....

Have you gotten a copy of Surviving an Affair? If not, try to get it ASAP in order to further understand the MB concepts and approach.
Yes I got the copy today and have started reading it....
I vote for #1, because that is how these things go. You are going to have to be the strong one here.
So believer, you think #1 is going to be what happens? I think so too...either that or he "does not know what I want" scenario...Hey, his Mom still does not know about all of this? Do I need to expose it to her? His Dad and sister do but his Mom does not...his parents are not still married, fyi....
I think it will be #1 because that is how they usually are - willing to give up their spouse, family, children, whatever for their "fix". Just be prepared for it.

Yes, expose to his mom.
So how is #1 different than #2?

I say A PART of all WSes still want their marriages even though THEY SAY they don't.
Do I need to tell his Mom? She still does not know
Yes, for sure, tell his Mom.
i was thinking that too...i have a feeling he is going to come home, want to end the marriage, go tell his mom he doesn't want to be married but NOT tell her the real truth about everything.....
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Hey Mimi, Orchid and Believer...I have a question....I just got back from my IC and he told me that I need a plan depending on what my WH is going to do when he comes...He says that I need to be able to implement this plan with whatever my WH says to me..He came up w/ 4 different scenarios on what could take place and I wanted to hear from ya'll on what my plan should be.

Orchid: 1st off, you need t/b done with your plan A self improvements. You also need to have your personal boundaries identified. I will answer based on the 'assumption' you are done with plan A.

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1. My WH comes home, he wants out, he does not love me anymore, he does not want to be married anymore which is why he is not wanting to stay at the house w/ me.

Orchid: WS goes to get the D. That's not your job. Make sure you get EVERYTHING u r entitled to and more.

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2. My WH comes home, he loves this girl, they ARE still in contact, she IS still over there and he wants to be with her.

Orchid: Same as 1, make sure exposure is to all so that he does NOT take what belongs to you and your family (wedding gifts, things bought together, etc.). The WS s/b willing to leave with nothing if the OW is that great.

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3. My WH comes home, he is remorseful, he is sorry, he wants to work it out, and he will do whatever he needs to do in order for that to happen.

Orchid: Xws does the recovery work. Your taker goes into action in a reasonable way. Do NOT placate the Xws. MC for both. Call Steve.

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4. My WH comes home, says that the EA is over, nothing else happened but a few kisses (maybe I believe him,maybe I don't) BUT he doesn't know what he wants. He is confused and he is not sure what he wants at all. But he still does not stay at the house, he comes home, lays all of that on me, and then leaves to go back overseas.

Orchid: Call Steve for YOUR recovery plan. Learn about plan B and implement when u r ready.

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My IC thinks that either #1 or #4 is the most likely to happen. Can you guys give me some input on what I should do in these cases? I have a good idea on what I would do if #3 happens, but I am not banking on that considering the tone and words of my WH's im's and emails. It sounds like he has already "checked out". HELP!!! Thank you so much.

Orchid: Any slowness or apprehension on his part should NOT be taken lightly. He shrivels up even a bit and you had better have plan B ready to spring into action. Most Xws with withdrawal will try to make the BS do the recovery work. If you do a good plan A and id'd your boundaries, the builk of your work is done. It is his recovery work and regaining your trust that is the big task and that rests on his shoulders.

You don't do a lot for him at this stage. You be supportive for what is right but do NOT allow him to make your enable his WS ways, attitude or even enable the A. You are NOT to be made guilty for his antics.

JMHO,
L.
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Orchid: 1st off, you need t/b done with your plan A self improvements. You also need to have your personal boundaries identified. I will answer based on the 'assumption' you are done with plan A.


I think Orchid has forgotten that you have not done Plan A.

If you have decided that you want to work on your marriage, Plan A comes first.
Well. I do want to work on the marriage...But in order for that to happen, he has to be here PHYSICALLY...BUT, contract wise, he cannot come home before March. There is no way around that, unfortunately. So am I to assume that if he comes home, is not sure of "what he wants",goes back, that I am to implement Plan A then? And then if he does not come home in March, go to Plan B? I think that is what I am gathering from all the info you guys have told me. But I just wanted to be clear. You guys are so awesome.
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Well. I do want to work on the marriage...But in order for that to happen, he has to be here PHYSICALLY..


To me, it is interesting for you to say this. When you two agreed for him to go to Iraq, didn't you two continue to have it in mind that you would WORK ON YOUR MARRIAGE while apart? I don't know how couples do that..but you must have had some thoughts about this, correct? If you did not, maybe that made your marriage vulnerable to this affair. So, in other words, WORKING ON YOUR MARRIAGE would mean improving upon what you were doing already. Make sense?

Plus, won't you see him at all when he returns in a few weeks?

It is really necessary to do PLAN A before PLAN B..which is the LAST RESORT after PLAN A.
hey Mimi...when he and I got married in Jan., there was no talk of him going back. He brought up the idea again in Feb. and I supported him on it b/c of all the money we lost when our home burned down Nov. last year. So yes, I did think that we could work on our marriage being 7000 miles away...but I was not aware of "emotional needs" 10 months ago and how important it was to have your H or W with you in order for it to work. I thought, just like so many other people, that our marriage was "invincible" and could "survive" the seperation. Well, haha, guess what...I was soooooooo wrong. And also, I just knew and would have bet my life on it that my H would have NEVER done this to me since it was done to him by his 1st W. Well, I was wrong again. So, now I understand the importance of being physically together. And as Dr. Harley told me, he said it was crucial for him to come home in order for this to work. And Mimi, if you remember from the emails that went on b/t me and H, he said "he didn't want to stay here and that he was not going to spend that much time here." He said that "we are going to talk but he is not staying at the house but we would talk and then he would go see his parents". So the last I heard from him, we were going to talk, he would leave, and we would not spend any time together. I think that was a knee-jerk reaction to my email that I sent to him telling him that I love him and want this marriage to work and want to spend time with him when he comes home. I may have "scared" him. Chicken-s**t.....
Have you heard anything from him lately?

Any word from him on where he plans on staying when he comes to TALK?

He might not want to spend much time with his parents after you talk with him mother....teehee....
I have not heard from him since 2 days ago...when he and I had that im conversation that I posted on here....I have not heard his voice in over 3 weeks....I am sure he is avoiding me b/c whenever I email or im him, all I want to do is ask questions and "talk" about it....which I sure makes him p***ed...So I know that I cannot do that anymore...He said he is not sure where is going to stay..he does not know anyone here in our hometown so he may go to a hotel...who knows...then he was talking about going to see his parents and then he "wasn't sure" what he was going to do...I did talk to his Mom last night and she was very supportive. She was in shock and could not believe it. She seems to think that he is feeling very guilty about this and the fact that he is seeing what he is seeing over there and having to deal w/ all the crap over there, that he has "compartmentalized" and put this on the "back burner" until he gets home. He has even told me over and over again that he has to put this on the "back burner". So I have left him alone...I have not emailed him since Monday...But I did leave him with the message that I love him and that I want this marriage to work. I am not sure what else to do....
Now it's time to PRAY..put it in God's hands..and see what happens when he comes home...

I think you've done all that you can do...SO FAR...
Yes, you are right...And I have been praying and praying everyday....I have to let go and let God....
Man, I am having a bad night...I have been feeling very strong up until about 3 hours ago...I feel so sad and afraid right now....
The Lord is with you... He will never leave you or forsake you...

Trust in Him with all your heart....

I found it helpful to read Psalms...

I also liked Ephesians a lot...PUT ON YOUR ARMOR to fight the forces of evil...
Thank you Mimi...I am just so sad....I went all day w/o crying and now the floodgates have opened...I am just so afraid.....
You're going to hurt, Love..and I feel sooo sad for you.

You have been betrayed by your H..

Hold on..it'll get better..with time...
You are right....so right...Today I am feeling better....I am strapped financially but I really don't want to call my H and ask him for $...I hate doing that since he already pays rent and my car payment....ugh!!!!!
You do need to ask him for money if you need it.

He is YOUR HUSBAND and is RESPONSIBLE for PROVIDING for you..especially since that was the point of his deployment.

Go ahead and simply ask him or even just TELL him what you need.

Do you have access to his bank account? I forgot.
No, I dont have access to his account....he already pays for my rent and car payment....the reason I need money is b/c I am not budgeting my money the way I should be....I make my own money but i am a terrible budgeter...i don't spend freely, i guess my utilities are more than i can afford...does that make any sense?
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No, I dont have access to his account....he already pays for my rent and car payment.


Do you see this as a BIG DEAL?

He SHOULD pay for these expenses. It is HIS RESPONSIBILITY legally and morally to PROVIDE for you. It is his DUTY. HE IS YOUR HUSBAND. I'm hearing that you are not speaking as if you are married. You are speaking as if you are SEPARATE ENTITIES..That is what a DIVORCE does. Now you are MARRIED.

Being a married couple, ideally, you two would make a BUDGET together, coming up with some spending and payment PLAN...POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT..according to MBers...

But, right now, if you have financial needs, go ahead and ASK him to HELP you.

Actually this is GOOD PLAN A stuff..this will/should make him feel manly and will STRESS your point of that YOU ARE HIS WIFE....

I am a professional, making a substantial income, but I made sure that my H maintained his financial responsibilities to ME as well as OUR SONS....

I think it put a damper in some of their PARTYING... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Well he and I did come up w/ a financial arrangement b4 he left...he would pay for my rent and my car and i pay the utilities...well i have fallen a little short and need some help...well mimi, i just asked him and he got so angry at me...he was so mean and ugly to me...he told me to give up our dog since i can't afford the pet sitter....i can't believe he is being so mean and nasty to me....i am so hurt...all over again..and i have been doing so well the past couple of days....
Hey Mimi and Orchid..I know I have probably asked this a million and one times and I appreciate the response you gave to me on what I should do w/ these scenarios...But what I was wanting to know is how do I respond to these scenarios? What do I say to him when one of these happens? I have read a lot about PLan A but I am not sure I have been doing Plan A correctly. If he does come home and wants out and he walks out the door, what am I to do? How do I respond? I know that Plan A is a lot about meeting his needs, making home comfortable and safe, working on yourself, but if he is not here, how do I do all that? How do I meed his needs and make it safe here if he is 7000 miles away? or if he wants out, do I go into Plan B? i pasted the scenarios again for you guys. I just want to know how to respond to him or react to him or what to say to him when one of these happen which I know for certain will. I am trying to prepare the best I can so I don't fall apart or break down in front of him. Knowing what to do will make me feel so much stronger when I see him. Thanks you guys so much for being there for me and being patient w/ me....


1. My WH comes home, he wants out, he does not love me anymore, he does not want to be married anymore which is why he is not wanting to stay at the house w/ me.

2. My WH comes home, he loves this girl, they ARE still in contact, she IS still over there and he wants to be with her.

3. My WH comes home, he is remorseful, he is sorry, he wants to work it out, and he will do whatever he needs to do in order for that to happen.

4. My WH comes home, says that the EA is over, nothing else happened but a few kisses (maybe I believe him,maybe I don't) BUT he doesn't know what he wants. He is confused and he is not sure what he wants at all. But he still does not stay at the house, he comes home, lays all of that on me, and then leaves to go back overseas.
Read the Ark Plan A posts on pain's thread..where she talks about SPEAKING THE TRUTH....about your pain....

Keep SPEAKING YOUR OWN TRUTHS regardless of HIS scenario....

Do this any chance that you get..

Make him do the dirty work..

If he proceeds legally, STATE your plan to get all the you deserve..including SPOUSAL SUPPORT, etc.

I expected him to be angry regarding your request for monetary assistance...

I hope you didn't back down though...

Also, read Ark's more recent thread about PLAN A and the WS..

He's looking for any rationalization to see you negatively...

But continue to keep moving forward..being the best that you can be....

Later....
Oh yea he was pissed about me asking for money....and no I did not back down...I actually made him feel guilty for it b/c I told him that I had to fire my pet sitter, and turn my heat down to 63 degrees...but then he threw in my face the fact that he is facing bombs and mortars and dead bodies, etc etc. To be honest, mimi, I am not great w/ money and I know that he is paying for my rent, my car payment and my credit card debt....but he offered to do all of that before he left....and he knew all this before he married me...he kept saying that it was cheaper and costing him less when he owned a home and was not...married...ouch...but anyway...i think he is mad at what he has done and trying to place some blame on me to try to make himself feel better....i guess i just need to know the right responses to say to him when he comes home....
ok, now i am getting irritated...Ark says Plan A is not about me but about doing for the WS....AHHHHHHHHHH....according to her thread, she says "it ia not about doing for oneself, but it is ALL about doing for the WS"....am I just missing something????
ok, believe it or not,i think i have it...NO MATTER what my WH says, just be kind, no arguing, state my boundaries w/ love and a gentle tone, make him feel safe to come home, let him know that i love him and want this marriage to work, no LB's, do RB, take care of myself, be happy, move on w/ my life, do pester, beg, or plead w/ him...am I on the right track here ladies??????
i meant do NOT pester,beg, or plead w/ him...whoops....
I THINK YOO'VE GOT IT!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And remember that he will make every effort to get you off track...
ok, praise the Lord, I think I've got it...So no matter what he says (whether he is in or out), just keep being nice, loving, let him know i want the marriage to work, that i love him, but don't pester, beg, plead, or do LB's....don't be needy desperate, keep up w/ me, work on me, do RB's, make him feel safe to come home, try to meet emotional needs (even though that may be impossible since he is 7000 miles away) but at least try..mimi/orchid/believere, is there anything that I am missing here??? Anything of major importance?
You've got it!!

Try to slip in soon somehow how you are working on your spending habits and how much you APPPRECIATE his HELP by going over to IRAQ
ok, thank you mimi...you are soooooooo freakin awesome...there is no way that i would have understood all of this or gotten to this point w/o you....you are a true Godsend to me....thank you thank you thank you thank you......
Ok, now what if I want sex? ANd he does too? yikes????
Of course you want sex..after all this time... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When is he coming..no pun intended...to the States, that is??

Stop worrying for right now.

Remember what we decided? All that you can do TODAY is to PRAY and to put this into God's hands.

What can you do to redirect your mind today?

Any cleaning or decorating around your house?
Post deleted by LoveGod
i'm on my way out the door...

I didn't read what you wrote...

But, without reading it, I know it's MUCH, MUCH TOO LONG...

I say send him only brief one to two sentence communcations...

I love you...

Can't wait to see you...

I've been rethinking my spending habits...

I really appreciate you...

Etc...

Yes, ANYTHING more is pleading...

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT...

I wrote long letters to my then active WH and he shredded them write in my face..YUCK...
ok, i will shorten it...thank you...
Hey...I am having a bad day...my co-workers have not been very forgiving of my "spaciness" and me being "tense". They just don't understand what I am going through. How do I make them understand and cut me some slack? Man, I feel so isolated and alone.
The first step is to take away your own excuses. (I highly recommend a reading of "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz for seeing that you have a choice of "interpretation" on your wayward's actions and that to take them personally is to intentionally deepen the hurt he has caused you. That really means that he isn't doing it to you anymore... you are... Tough to read, but if you want to heal - own your healing!

So... Don't ask for slack - step up and be your best instead. It's your first step for your own inner healing and strength building!
Thanks KA....I am trying very hard not to take it personally b/c I know I did not cause this EA...I just want this hurt and pain to go away....its almost unbearable at times.
hey Mimi, Orchid...help..I called the clinic overseas last night and they told me that my H had already left for R and R...he's not supposed to leave until the 11th...they told me that he was in Baghdad taking some classes and then he was going to be in Dubai for a couple of days then fly out on the 8th...He has told me and his family he's not coming here until the 11th. I also pulled up his credit report and it shows that he opened up a jewelry account and spent about 1500.00.....I have emailed him but have not gotten a response....Help...I don't know what to do or think...I do remember him telling me back a couple of months ago, that a guy over there asked him to "buy a ring for him for his g/f" and he did it and the guy paid him back for it..I just dont know..I really need to know what to do at this point...Please help guys...I feel like I am so done w/ this...this open wound will not heal and I just want closure...should I give him LSA when he comes home? Or should I get the papers in order and see how our conversation goes and then go from there? I really need to know what to do.....
((((LOVE))))

As I was suspecting, his plan was to get with her. I just know the ways of a WS...YUCK...

I'm proud of you that you have gotten this important INFO for yourself....

There is really nothing that you can DO to STOP THIS...

Other than YOUR PLAN A...

That still needs to be done if you choose to continue to work on your marriage...

He has not pursued this R in the REAL WORLD...it has a low, low likelihood of lasting in the LIGHT OF THE USA, Love...

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this open wound will not heal and I just want closure..


Why do you say this? This is NO DIFFERENT than what any of us have gone through...

My H used to leave each and every weekend and spend it with the OW..coming home on Sunday....

I know how much it hurts and I have felt the PAIN of your WOUND..but I'm very much HEALED..

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should I give him LSA when he comes home? Or should I get the papers in order


Yes, if you surely want to end your marriage. Otherwise, we have suggested to let him do the DIRTY WORK.

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see how our conversation goes and then go from there


Yep..calmly yet assertively let him know that you are aware of his recent events....when he TRIES to PLAY the GOOD
GUY...

This is going according to the WS SCRIPT....

We know what he's going to say...

We will help you...

You've done the best that you can do at this point...ACQUIRING KNOWLEDGE...

Now you've got to try to stay CALM AND COLLECTED...IN ORDER TO DO BATTLE....AGAINST THE AFFAIR....
OK...thanks Mimi...I will let you know what happens...I did call the only 2 hotels in Dubai that contract workers can stay and checked to see if he was there and there was no record of him so he may be in Baghdad, like he said...i dunno...
Mimi, how in the world did you heal from all of this? I feel like this pain is never going to go away...I hurt so much.... And how long did this go on w/ him going back/forth to be w/ her on the weekends? How did you handle that????
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OK...thanks Mimi...I will let you know what happens...I did call the only 2 hotels in Dubai that contract workers can stay and checked to see if he was there and there was no record of him so he may be in Baghdad, like he said...i dunno...

Forget the hotels, go call in and say someone has taken your account and charged unathorized jewelry.

L.
Orchid, got info on the jewelry stuff...nothing for me to be alarmed about...too long of a story to get into...but i did check hotels and he is not there...i did get verification that he was, in fact, in Baghdad, in 2 continuing education classes....so now i guess i just wait...but i did wanna ask, why try and have a sit-down serious conversation w/ my WH if he is only going to try and lie and cover stuff up? Isnt that just a futile attempt?
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...but i did wanna ask, why try and have a sit-down serious conversation w/ my WH if he is only going to try and lie and cover stuff up? Isnt that just a futile attempt?


The point is for you to say to him what YOU want him to HEAR...not to do anything to CHANGE HIM....
Regardless of what HE SAYS..you want to MAINTAIN YOUR OWN PERSONAL POSITION...

You want to be like a BRICK WALL...that won't crumble although he may be hitting you with his WORDS...
Ok....I guess I really cannot do a good plan A unless I know what I am dealing with. I feel like, no matter what he tells me or decides, I have to continue on with my life and make myself better. Whether he is here or 7000 miles away.
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I guess I really cannot do a good plan A unless I know what I am dealing with.


I'm not sure what you mean, Love.

Plan A is done when you have a WS.

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feel like, no matter what he tells me or decides, I have to continue on with my life and make myself better. Whether he is here or 7000 miles away.


Of course.

The question is do YOU want to remain married to him.
Well I know that Plan A means that I have to still assume that they are in the affair. But what if they are not? What if she really is gone but, for tax purposes, he HAS to go back until March. I don't know if I will face my H or my WH when he comes home. And a big part of me wants my marriage to work but a little part just wants closure...to get this done and over with so I can move on w/ my life. This waiting is almost unbearable. I guess the 1st thing out of my mouth when we sit down to talk is ,"do you want to be with me?". Am I making any sense here or am I just all messed up?
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Well I know that Plan A means that I have to still assume that they are in the affair.


I would say assume that they are unless you have EVIDENCE to the contrary.

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And a big part of me wants my marriage to work but a little part just wants closure...to get this done and over with so I can move on w/ my life.


Let this be YOUR decision. Do what you CHOOSE to do...not what he tries to talk you into doing.

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This waiting is almost unbearable.


This creates lots of anxiety for you. Believe it or not, I bet you'll FEEL better when you see him in the flesh and the SIGHT of him, being in his presence will help you with your decision about the marriage.

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I guess the 1st thing out of my mouth when we sit down to talk is ,"do you want to be with me?".


Major faux pas. YOUR FOCUS IS ON YOU and what YOU WANT TO SAY
And that is what I want to say..I want to know if he wants to be w/ me? Does that make any sense? I really want to know the answer to that question....and that is focusing on me a bit...I plan on telling him my wants/needs but I do want to know the answer to that question...
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I want to know if he wants to be w/ me? Does that make any sense? I really want to know the answer to that question....and that is focusing on me a bit...I plan on telling him my wants/needs but I do want to know the answer to that question...


This puts you in a WEAK, WHINY position...which is very unattractive.

I can answer this question for you without you asking him.

Given our PRESUMPTION that he is a WS, unless proved otherwise:

He may LIE to you and say: Yes, I want to be with you. (My question: What good does this do for you)

OR

He will say NO, thankful that you have graciously given him this opportunity to reject you without him having to do it himself.

You are expecting him to be open and HONEST with you, Love...

The nature of a WS is to be DISHONEST and DECEITFUl, doing anything, saying anything to get his way.

The key issue remains, WHAT DO YOU WANT, regardless of what he does or what he says.
ok, so I will tell him my wants and needs...which is that I love him and I want our marriage to work. And state my boundaries....
How do I do a good Plan A, if he comes home, admits she is still there and they are still involved and then he goes back? I have exposed to everyone here but there is noone to expose it to over there. I don't know who she is and I have no info on her. Do I implement Plan A just as if he was here in the states?
There are too many "what ifs" to plan for every possibility. There is a good quote that describes the essence behind plan A from the book, "How To Win Friends & Influence People", by Dale Carnegie. "The only way on earth to influence other people is to talk about what they want and show them how to get it." Everyone wants their needs met. Plan A is about meeting those needs while protecting yourself. Ask him what he wants. Unfortunately, don't be surprised if you hear, "I don't know." I still hear that from my WS. If that's the case for you, focus on Plan A, which is to improve yourself and make yourself a better person. In doing so, you should be meeting his needs. The hard part for you is the WS needs to be around for Plan A to work so they can see the improvements that you are making.

Another good quote from the book made by Henry Ford, "If there is any one secret to my success, it lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from that person's angle as well as from your own."
ML, exactly...."they have to be around"...now how in the h**l does this work when he is 7000 miles away? If cuts off all contact w/ me, except emailing for bills, etc etc, then how is he going to even notice or become aware of my improvements....I guess he won't? So in this situation, Plan A is going to be for me and not for him? Am I understanding that correctly? Please advise...
STOP Panicking. U have time on your side. The WS' life is short lived. Your H is fighting to get out and each time the WS gets stronger by either causing you to enable the A or cause you to get angry, your H losing some ground.

Don't try to teach or preach to a WS.

Don't you have boundaries to identify?

L.
Yes, I do...I have my boundaries...
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Plan A is going to be for me and not for him?


Steve Harley instructed ME to call PLAN A.."MY PLAN"..working on MY ISSUES..making myself the best person that I can be..

For example, FOR YOU, working on MONEY MANAGEMENT will not only be helpful to you PERSONALLY..whether you or with your H or not..but this will also meet a need of his for FINANCIAL SUPPORT..You see?

I agree with Orchid that you are panicking.

I think that you are panicking because you want to control this and that is making you anxious.

I've been there.

I want to remind you, Love, that you can ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF...not him...

Hard as it maybe..work on LETTING HIM GO...work on YOURSELF...that will be to your benefit whether he returns to you or not...

I will be thinking of you...

In case your H is coming in soon, I want to let you know that I will be out of town pretty much all of next week...I didn't want you to think that I was disregarding you...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Ok, thanks Mimi...yea he is coming home on Monday...I have no idea what I am walking into, but I have come to the conclusion that no matter what he says or does, I am not going to change what I am doing...working on myself, continuing on w/ my life, telling him what I want and need, and making it an attractive choice for him to come home. I know that I cannot control anything he says or does, so I am prepared to stand my ground and do what is best for me and be prepared to let him go if he so desires.
I feel sick...my WH coming home in 3 days from overseas and I feel sick....Lord, give me strength...
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[color:"red"] I think that you are panicking because you want to control this and that is making you anxious.
[/color]
... per Mimi

needs to be written out
and taped to surfaces around your home

as a reminder

a "panicked" BS is an UNattractive choice to the WS

if you want to drive a wedge deeper between you and H ... show him a panicked wife !!!

Pep
Pep, I know, I know, I know...it is sooooo hard....I know I have to remain calm when I talk to him...But it has been 5 weeks leading up to him coming home knowing all this crap has happened....AAAAHHHHH...so I am sure you can understand my anxiety.....
self-soothing is a skill that will serve you well for the rest of your life

Pep
pep, how do I "self-sooth"? I need to learn that skill...Help!!!
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I feel sick...my WH coming home in 3 days from overseas and I feel sick....Lord, give me strength...

Answer this: What are your plans?

Plan 1: He comes home as a WS.

Action:



Plan 2: He comes home as an Xws.

Action:


Plan 3: He comes home as your H.

Action:


Plan 4: He doesn't come home.

Action:


Remember you can't control him. You can only control yourself. Know that your home is just that your home. He needs to show he is a valuable family member. Having an A or WS attitude does not qualify him as a valuable family member.

L.
Answer this: What are your plans?

Plan 1: He comes home as a WS.

Action: Stay in control, do not lose my cool, remain calm, RB, no LB'S, do not expect the truth, do not reason, plead, beg, or act needy and desperate, tell him my wants/needs and exlain that I am going to continue on w/ my life.



Plan 2: He comes home as an Xws.

Action: the same as above but ask for complete honesty.


Plan 3: He comes home as your H.

Action: the same as above in 1 and 2


Plan 4: He doesn't come home.

Action: the same as 1
Thanks for sharing your plans. Woud you like some constructive critcism on them?

L.
yes, please......and orchid, i have been LBng, but only in the financial aspect of it...i ran out of oil for our heat the other night and had to ask him for $..he already pays for my rent and car payment....
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yes, please......and orchid, i have been LBng, but only in the financial aspect of it...i ran out of oil for our heat the other night and had to ask him for $..he already pays for my rent and car payment....

Orchid: I am not worried about your LBing. That's a given. In fact it isn't an LB if you need something important. How you say it maybe an LB but the simple act of asking for help isn't. Ok....here goes my take on your responses below:

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Answer this: What are your plans?

Plan 1: He comes home as a WS.

Action: Stay in control, do not lose my cool, remain calm, RB, no LB'S, do not expect the truth, do not reason, plead, beg, or act needy and desperate, tell him my wants/needs and exlain that I am going to continue on w/ my life.

Orchid: Execute plan A, but only for a short period of time. He needs to see your changes. During this time, complete identifying your boundaries (it will change during this time), secure your finances (which you can do now), increase your support system (which you should have already done)and prepare for plan B. If he is still a WS, then enact plan B. You will know when to enact plan B. Your mind and heart MUST be in sync. Ready to move forward for you. Remember you can NOT teach a WS (that will cut down on the LBing).

You go to MC for you. If he asks, let him know you are. If he doesn't do not volunteer. Fight the need to tell the WS off or tell him everything you are doing.

It is much better to keep the WS off balanced by him 'wondering' what you are up to. If he accuses you of spying on him..... don't say yes or no, tell him 'oh?!?!? thanks for the idea!' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Plan 2: He comes home as an Xws.

Action: the same as above but ask for complete honesty.

Orchid: Same as item 1. Expect him to revert back to a WS and when he does whip out that plan B. Remember your mind and heart MUST be in sync. When he wimpers and whines, remind him that he left the family and he needs to show value to be allowed back into your family. No real LOVE talk, more logical, common sense talk. Say little. Learn to look him in the eye and ask leading questions. Do not expect answers right away. You need patience along with a clear mind and calm heart. Lots of patience.

My Xws would take between 3 - 10 days to answer a simple question. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> re: WS' process logical thoughts slowly. That is because logic is not part of their make up.

Look for signs of your H. He is around trying to communicate to you. Show you know your H is trying to communicate with you by making 'small' mention of when he does surface. Remind him, you love your H NOT the WS.

You go to counseling. Invite him but go even if he doesn't.
Remove his excuses. Stay out of his way but around enough for him to know you care. He will be in withdrawal and needs his space.

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Plan 3: He comes home as your H.

Action: the same as above in 1 and 2

Orchid: Same as item 2, get to counseling

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Plan 4: He doesn't come home.

Action: the same as 1

Orchid: Item 1 plus, pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Minimize your contact with him and let him know you are looking for your H and appreciate if he could give your H a message from you. Don't give the message until another time. He needs to wonder what you are up to.

Those are my thoughts. Some of it comes from what I have learned here and what I had to do in my case. While our cases are not identical, apply what is useful in your sitch.

All the best,
L.
Ok, that is wonderful advice..I appreciate it...I do wanna ask though, what do you mean to have your "mind and heart in sync"? Are you meaning to stick to my ground, excute Plan B and stick to it? I am not sure I understand what you mean..thanks Orchid..you are awesome
((( Love )))

Here is a suggestion that helps me feel calm when in turbulent waters --

I close my eyes and raise my hands to God... With raised hands and closed eyes -- I give the situation to God.

Love, I can atually feel the weight of the problem leave my fingertips...

You may want to try this and see if it makes you feel any better..

And -- speaking of feeling better -- you are receiving help from some of the very best here on MB !!!

These people will YOU with YOUR recovery...


Sincerely, Carnation
Heart and mind in sync: The single movement of 2 separate organs or in this case, thought and feelings.

Often a BS will be in shock and the mind will go in the logical direction but the heart tugs in the other. This leaves the BS frustrated and hurt. It is difficult to make life changing decisions in this emotional state.

Once the mind and heart sync up on the same page, then reasonable life changing decisions can be made. It is recommended this come after a good plan A has been executed and plan B has been outlined.

JMHO,
L.
ok,cool,,,,thanks orchid..wish me luck..he comes in tomorrow around 7p EST....
Orchid/Believer..please pray for me to control and keep my strength...my WH will be home in 2 hrs. for our "talk"...I am so nervous and anxious....Please pray!!!!!!!
pepperband, any last words of wisdom or advice??????
((( Love )))

I am praying.....
Post deleted by LoveGod
Well, I for one think you did fine - there's no way I could have just sat on those e-mails, either.

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He is not sure he wants out...

Anytime a WS says "I'm not sure what I want," that really means, "I want to be both married and single and now that I'm busted I'm not sure how to keep that going."

Don't ever forget that. They're not confused. They want BOTH.
Mulan
Oh, that is very good news. Hang in there and stay in Plan A. Try to make lots of love deposits in his bank.

Now you know one of his needs is more financial support. I hope you can figure out a way to do that. Try to cut down on non-essentials, and make a good effort.
Post deleted by LoveGod
Sounds great, Love..

But, if at all possible, it seems like it would be best for you to go with him to visit his parents...

As much time with him as possible is essential, I think...
Hey Mimi, cud not go w/ him-had to work. He is there now w/ his family. I feel so alone and lost right now. I told him the other night that I did not want a LSA and if he did, then he was going to have to hire the lawyer and do the work to get it. He didn't respond to that. I have a feeling he is going to leave w/o any resolution to this and that really scares me-I found out that OW is still over there but they have had NC since end of Oct. I feel very alone and sad right now. I have not heard from him today (he called me 2 x's yesterday)....I cannot get any more info-he changed his password on his email last night. I just really need some advice right now on what to do if we do not come to any agreement before he leaves. I am afraid he will go back, get back into that routine, become absorbed by that environment, suffer from even more PTSD, and lose him forever. Please help me w/ this if you guys can. Thanks.
Anybody there? Anyone?
Hey everyone-My WH just left, today, to go back overseas....his time here was good...we talked a lot, I did a great Plan A, he and I talked about him coming home for good in April and working this out....It was hard to say goodbye to him, again, as it always has been in the past...he still has had NC w/ OW...not even sure she is still over there....But he and I talked a lot about a lot of things.....bottom line is he is just not happy w/ himself which means he cannot make me happy....I told him that it was not his job to make me happy and that is something i have to do on my own...He did stress how much it bothered him that I was not able to "meet" him 1/2 way financially and that is something I am correcting right now....So we got a lot of things out in the open...He feels very ashamed and guilty for what he did over there and he knows it was stupid, etc etc...So I guess I am going to remain in Plan A and see what happens..my fear is that he is going to change his mind again and again and again..How do I handle that???
Remember your plan is NOT to change him but to change you. Make your plan A changes. He knows what he needs to do. He may slide back a bit before he moves forward. That's a chance you both have to take. If you don't want to take that chance anymore, then plan B or D.

See there is more in your court than you realize. Him admitting he doesn't like himself and knowing you know about the A has put a major blow on the A.

Good job!

L.
What GOOD news!!!!!

Now he has talked to you about finances, get busy working hard on those.

All in all, your situation seems very hopeful.
I agree with B and Orchid!!!

VERY HOPEFUL INDEED!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hey ya'll...yes we talked ALOT about finances...that was a really big thing w/ him....We both went and looked at cheaper places for us to live once our lease is up at the end of April, I have gotten another fulltime job making much better money than I am now...he and I have come up w/ a good financial plan about paying some things off...I just hope that he sticks to our plan that we have come up with...I just hope and pray, that when he gets back over in that "environment", that he does not waver back and forth and back and forth...He has said that he really wants to conme home and go to the police academy and he keeps talking about coming home at the end of april or beginning of may..i just hope he sticks to that....one day at a time, i assume?
Post deleted by LoveGod
Since he is still a WS, expect stupid OW contact.

The difference will be how YOU will be handling it. You are done with your plan A, he has said he wants to come home. The A is exposed and if contact EA/PA resumes it will be under the cloud of all that has happened. It won't be as 'fun' for them no matter how much they try. That's good.

For you, you will find yourself going through stages. Read my link and about the stages of grieving and be prepared. Also you can work on identifying your boundaries, secure your finances and prepare plan B. Finish reading His Needs/Her Needs.

L.
So my plan A is over? Can I continue w/ Plan A? If not, what is my next step and what do I do and how do I act? Do I send the Plan B letter? Or just stay in Plan A for now? Now I am just speculating, but he may not have any contact w/ her...I don't know-I am expecting it though-OK, now again, I am dependant, for right now, on him financially...he and I both know that and that will continue until May-he knows it and he's ok w/ it....now, as far as my boundaries, do they apply when you go into PLan B or can I implement them while in Plan A? Just not sure what route to go now,....stay in Plan A and see for a bit or go straight to PLan B...HELP
Wish we had the answer to that one. We don't know what he will do when he goes back. Continue working on yourself, making the necessary changes, not being clingy and needy.

I think his trip home turned out very well. Stay in Plan A.
Yes. You can only control yourself. Even those of us whose WSes were living with us, had NO CONTROL over the contact with the OP.

Your PLAN A was so abbreviated that PLAN B should not be a consideration for you until you have spent more uninterrupted time with him.

Continue to be loving in your contacts with him and maintain work on your finances.

Merry Xmas, Love....
Since you have access to his E-Mails do you have her E-Mail address?

Have you been able to find out who she is and/or anything else about her?
Post deleted by LoveGod
Post deleted by LoveGod
This is where you need to exercise patience. It is now going t/b a bit harder for you since you do know more. However, you can utilize this time to strengthen yourself.

Reality is that you s/b prepared for their contact. So have you identified your boundaries? What are you working on?

Pay more attention to what you are doing than what he is doing. His job is to tell you the truth of what he is REALLY doing and your job to figure out if you believe your H or the WS.

L.
Yes, I know I have t/b prepared for them to be in contact-Not sure if it is going to go further than that...I am working on me and the things that I need to fix w/ myself...He has said that he is thinking seriously about coming home in May and has told his family the same thing..I may do a Plan A until then and then reevaluate...I don't expect him to be honest w/ me while he is over there...something just tells me that he won't..and I am not banking on it...anything else I should be doing now while he is there other than Plan A?
Is there some EXPOSURE that you think might be helpful since you know who she is?

I was even thinking about you E-Mailing her if she E-Mails him..

Nothing ugly on your part..just saying..Hi..I'm Mrs. LoveGod or something like that..." I learned that you are a friend of My Husband's....and leave it at that...
Post deleted by LoveGod
"did want to say a few things about how hurtful and painful this has all been to me.."

None of this, Love.

There's a good chance she doesn't care about your pain, etc.

I was thinking of EXPOSURE...letting her and/or others know that you are onto her...A WAR TACTIC..an ASSAULT...

This was a turning point in my situation..

I simply called the OW and said "Hi, I'm Mrs. Mimi..Mr. Mimi's WIFE ...asked her some nonsensical question about her work and then hungup...freaked her out... my H then quickly came up with a ruse to keep me from contacting her boss..I still regret that I did not do more exposure of her...


You might put this out to others and see what they think..

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