Hi,

My fiance told me about 1 1/2 months about she had feelings for another woman. She came home paranoid one day that someone had logged onto our computer with her name, which no one had, so I put a key logger on and found her email id and password.

Low and behold, not only does she have feelings but they've had sex.

We have kids (she has 1, together we have 1).

I'm wondering, if she's leaning towards homosexuallity is it worth it for me to go through plans A and B?

If you're not married, let alone on the same track in life, I'd say get out of the relationship and run hard away from her. If she cheats on you now, she'll cheat on you in the future.

It's your decision though. If you do feel you must take the child into consideration and attempt reconciliation, we'll help you, but I honestly see little chance you'll be successful. Sorry, just my take on it.

Gee thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't tend to take the troden path, so ...

We've been together for 8 years. This is the first time and to be honest, I don't really think I have a chance due to the lesbian thing. It's just very weird, and I'm hoping that someone that has experienced this will have some input.

You have my best wishes. I hope you find the specific advice you want and need.

I dont see how she can lead a happy married life with a man if she is homosexual. It would be like you trying to lead a life with another man, if that isnt what you are, it just isnt.

I'd talk with her and ask her what her orientation is. That would give you a good starting point.

I agree with everyone else though, I wouldnt get married in a situation like it is now.

OK...if they've been together for eight years, she's likely not homosexual, but bisexual.

I don't think that it matters. We've had other posters before with this exact same kind of situation. You treat it with plan A and B as needed just the exact same way. Just because she's with a woman and not another man doesn't change the emotional dynamics of the situation...or prevent plan A and/or B from working.

Read up on plan A, exposure, the lovebank, emotional needs, etc...all on the "Most Popular Links" sidebar to the right. Start applying those to your situation just as if she was seeing another man.

Since you've been together eight years, and have a child together, I'd say that the situation does tend to work exactly as if you were married. Normally, since you're not married I'd say 'cut and run'...but given an eight year relationship AND a child, I'd say in this case treat it like a marriage.

I've ordered the SAA book, along with Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs.

I realize that I may also be looking for what I want to here, but I'm not willing to toss our history out the door. I may have to, but I'm not going down without a fight and I owe it my family. I love them dammit!!!

Isn't that what this is supposed to be about? Loving and caring? How can we just throw people and relationships to the curb? Yes, that's what she's done, but how much thought really goes into it when it first happens. The consequences are not seen. An alcoholic doesn't know they are an alcoholic unless they get help.

Doesn't the fact that I love this woman, allow me to be able to help her either figure things out for herself and allow us both to move on with our lives, or to help her realize that what we have together is more than she will get somewhere else?

I don't know. I just know it's worth trying.

Part of plan A says to contact her boss. What do you say? How can that put pressure on her? Yes, she does work with this other woman.

Where can I find the specifics of Plan A?

I know I saw something earlier, but there's a lot of information on this site and I don't remember where it was.

Thanks

You're not even married yet and she's cheating. NOT a good basis for marriage. Engagement is a time to confirm and plan for the future. IT's an extension of dating. You are not married yet.

I admire you for sticking with it and that is something that a good woman would love to have. I hope that your fiancee' is worth your effort. But if it were me, I'd get out now while you can. And that's coming from a girl who believes in commitment.

I'll stand with Owl on this one.

I think that it is worth trying to salvage since you alread have a child together.

Here is a post that is shamelessly stole from Pep (THANKS PEP!). I hope it will help you.

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The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

********************************************************

Keep posting... We'll help you as best as we can.

Stay Strong!

I have been in your exact shoes... except for the bi-sexual thing. Engaged and child together when she cheated. I want to be real clear here...

Run far, run fast and do not, repeat, do not look back.

I tend to concur with MEDC.

There is another thread here somewhere where a BS's now wife was/and is having an affair with a woman and I don't think the outlook is too good. Cheating would be hard enough but then add in cheating with a woman and being confused about your sexuality, that's a mental problem and a lot of baggage for a marriage to take on along with what are bound to be regular problems just being in a R with someone anyway.

Can you get custody of your child and keep them from her day to day influence as long as she is "confused" and immoral to top it off? She needs counseling in the worst way. Check her childhood out and I bet you find skeletons.

Thanks everyone.

I've been told by a lawyer that the courts won't look at the sexuality issues. The fact that my daughter has a 1/2 sister doesn't help. They don't tend to separate siblings. I've started a journal last week and I'm documenting every day.

I asked her tonight to stop seeing the other woman, christ she's told me they are making plans to go to summerfest next week while I'm up north with my daughter.

I know I should take the run far, run fast idea. I just need to get my ducks in a row first. I'll have to get the house on the market, no she's got no part of it (part of R problems ...), then I have to file for custody of my girl. I would love to tell her cousin about this, as she is a very strong catholic and tends to like me. That will just ruin any chance of negotiating with her though. Trust me, this woman can hold a grudge and never see it as her fault. At this point I just want what's best for my daughter.

Any pointers on how to proceed? We are in an arrangement now where we are roommates, she sleeps in another room, yet still uses my master bathroom and shower. I need to hold my line when I draw it. Everytime I want something, like don't use my bathroom, or stop seeing/talking/emailing/texting the other woman, I back down, in the hopes that she'll come back to me. Right now I realize she's living the good life, getting lots of attention at home and with her "friend".

I've been unable to focus for the past few weeks due to all of this. I'm just starting to get on the track to take action.

As for her childhood, yeah, there's problems there, don't know about abuse, it's never come up, but there are some strange people in her family. She had her first daughter the summer after high school, she wasn't even 18 yet. Her dad also died when she was 14. I think she's psychologically stuck at that age. Always demanding things that she wants and crying and pushing until she gets it. I've never been able to say no to her, and make it stick. I guess that's been part of our problems over the years.

I keep thinking that I love her. I guess it's more that I don't want to be alone trying to raise my daughter. We've done so well, one of us picks up where the other one doesn't. I'm more on the discipline side and she's more on the let's go somewhere and do something (library, park, strawberry picking). I can do all that stuff to, just never wanted to be around all the bickering and fighting.

I guess there's too much that needs to be fixed also. God, this sucks so much!!!! Does anybody have a big rock I can crawl under for the next 12 years?

I just have to get my thoughts together.

Would you all be giving the same "run far, fast" advice if they were married? I fail to see how "a piece of paper" would make a difference in this case. They've been together for 8 years and they have two children who will be impacted by all of this!!

I've been checking other posts, and I've noticed a lot of similarities. I'm waiting on the SAA book and love busters and hn/hn books. Hope to get them before this weekend. Also consider getting a digital recorder to drop in her car before I head up north with my daughter for the weekend.

Anyone know of a good GPS tracker, I've seen The Stick, don't know how much $$$ it is though.

ps. thx fiat!!

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Call me a dolt, but how can I do this when she won't open up to me? I'm here for her, I've taken the better part of a month of breaking down, crying and pleading with her. I now know that's just going to push her away. What emotional need can I fill for her right now? How? I'm being nice to her, there have been times when I wasn't, but now it's all nice (really trying hard).

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
I've been making dinner, doing dishes, offering to do and doing laundry, cleaning, doing yard work. There has to be a point to this, as she seems to be eating it up like she's getting everything I could ever ask for.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Not sure what to do here, we've gone over the good things weeks ago, we are past that point. She no longer wishes to discuss things. I have to just start talking, and unless I strike a nerve, she remains fairly quiet.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Lost 14 lbs. started walking, now I'm jogging/walking 3 miles, coaching my daughter's t-ball team, being nicer to older daughter (not mine), talking nice and trying to remain calm and reassuring.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Have to research more into these, a lot of bad habits here!!!

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Wow, this is sure a hard one, especially if she really gets going, then it just feeds into me.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Hmmm, I guess coming home at lunch to check on the kids, taking my daughter to t-ball, taking older d. to boy friends house, offering to take older d. shopping tomorrow, cleaning, fixing. Being home on time, being dependable, honest and open. There has to be more ...

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Always hopeful here, to the point of obsession almost.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.
Done and done and done. Guess it can't be done enough, but I think she's getting sick of hearing it. She doesn't respond well when offered the same information over and over.

I can't do this. I've been going through all the emails again and I just can't do this. She doesn't want me, why the ****** would I want her back?

I feel you pain man...My wife was (maybe still is, but pastor and her best friend swear she is not having any contact, but WW can lie with the best of em) telling OM same thing...They lie a lot..Don't focus on that...I'm trying not to focus on it either...Sorry about your situation...I know what you are going through...Except it being OW in your case...If you focus on what you see, it will eat you alive...For me, God has shown me a lot, and one thing is to have Faith and believe in the UNSEEN. The devil will always make the obstacle look insurmountable (right now, my M looks 50/50, but know what the Lord has shown me), but over that "hill" is your victory...HAVE FAITH...

Well I sent her this message in the middle of the night. I had asked her before going to bed what she thought of not seeing the OW again. She said, it's not going to happen. She's her best friend.

I love you, but I value my dignity too. I can't tolerate you
knowingly hurting and disrespecting me by contacting OW for very
much longer. There is no lock on the door of our engagement. You can
leave any time. I would not chain you to our relationship.

If you commit I will do all I can to rescue our relationship and be a
great boyfriend, fiance and husband to you. You must do what you think
is right.

Her response: Totally focused on how I know that they are still in contact. Nothing about committing or fixing.
how would you know if Im contacting her...still reading my emails, checking the phone logs? I see her at work and I let you know when I see her outside of there. I don't think that you can tell me who I can and can't speak to.


In order to run the exposure part of plan A, do I need recent activity or will the past known activity do? I've already talked to her about what's in her email. I believe that since they know where I found the info, that they've been laying low there. I guess I need to go with a private [censored]. Going to get a digital recorder over lunch. Also going to try to talk to her mother and sister tonight. Not sure how well that will work out.

Just had a trade of emails with her.

My response to her from above:
Oh and telling me about your plans with her is just tossing the whole in
my face, and that's not supposed to hurt? That takes a lot of balls!!

You are in denial. You honestly can't expect me to believe that nothing
is happening or going to happen. If you keep seeing her that's a load
of crap!!!

You can't see the forest through all the trees. Well guess what, I'm
the lumber jack and I'm bringing down the forest. There won't be
anything left standing. This is your last chance. Please please please,
stop seeing her. Commit to me and I will do everything in my power to
fix our relationship. I need your help though. I can't do it with you
standing idly by.


Her reply:
I don't tell you unless you ask or unless you dig around.

My reply:
Like that's any better? You really don't get this at all. It needs to stop. I've gotten my footing now. I'm protected from you now. There's things I need to do now. Things that don't make sense right now, and go against every fiber of my being. In the long run though they make sense. See you on the other side, hopefully!!!

Lesbian relationships fall into several general categories, just like heterosexual ones. In your opinion, would your fiancee likely play the aggressor or the "female" role (fluff)? This is the second same sex affair that has hit this board in the past few weeks. I have tried to find the other one, which would be a good read for you, without success. But I know it is here.

The down side is that the emotions are typically even more intense and sometimes more shameful than more ordinary affairs. The up side is that they may not last as long on average from my observations.

Your first step is to develop a plan. Then you follow the plan. If you can afford it, schedule a session with Steve or Jennifer at the Harley center. They will help you with a plan. If you cannot, then detail your plan here and get feedback.

Develop a plan. Please do it now. Venting is fine, but it will not get you anywhere until you hoist them up at figure out a plan. He said, she said emails will do not good without a plan. What is your plan?

Larry

Plan yeah, that would be fine if I was so damn impulsive. I just put down the money to retain a lawyer to file for custody of my daughter.

I thought all this would be worth it, it's like talking to a brick wall though, and not just now. She's gets set in a direction and there's no deviating her. I'm done.

Thanks for all the kind suggestions, I just don't have the strength, the will, the means or the want to do this.

She thinks I'm crazy, that I'm ridiculous for asking her to write a letter and then have me review it.

My plan:
File for custody,
Sell the motorcycle to pay of credit card, then use remainder to fix things on the house (paint, deck, doors, carpet).
Put house on market,
Purchase mobile home and reap the benefits of low monthly payments.

The use of words to try to "educate" a wayward is like tossing cotton balls at a crocodile.

She will not hear anything from you right now. She's in full justification mode, and all her thoughts are on keeping her "friend".

Purchase and read "Surviving an Affair". Stop trying to change her, as it can't be done. You can only change "you", and allow those changes to influence her decisions. That is Plan A, and Plan A is where you need to be right now.

I agree with the others...call the Harleys for a plan specifically for your sitch. In the mean time, think of your fiance as an addict, who will forsake all she previously held dear, to get her "fix"; ie, the feelings she gets (her high) when she is with the OW. When people become wayward, there is NO limit to how low they'll go.

Your threatening IM's are Lovebusters, and won't help your cause at all. Read, learn and post, and you can get through this, buy YOU will have to do ALL the work. Your Wayward Fiance will do NOTHING to stop her destructive behaviour until she hits rock bottom.

You will have to love her UNCONDITIONALLY for months, and execute a near perfect Plan A to win this battle. Then recovery will take 2 years plus. Are you prepared to fight such a battle?

Best wishes,
SD

Am I prepared? I thought I was. I do have SAA coming. After today though. She called some of my later emails rude and I offered up that her affair was rude. She said it wasn't an affair, that all they do is hang out.

I bluffed about where she went Friday night and that I came out to check on her. She doesn't think I would because the kids were home, I made her think I could have. She got pretty quiet.

Man, I hate all these love busters I have. I go too far sometimes. I've already filed for custody now (i am very impetitous), I have a Real Estate agent coming to look at the house next week.

I can't live this way. She's just not willing to budge, I guess I can't blame her if I'm acting this way all the time now. Actually I do blame her. Thing is I'm glad it's done. I want it over. I have to move on, it's been a destructive relationship and it's best we separate. My daughter will suffer, and I feel very bad for that, but it won't work with us as just roommates.

I need to get away from her. I don't even now if what I feel for her is love anyway. I have a lot of thinking to do.

Where's that rock I ordered? I need to crawl under it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.

You can always end it, but you only have one chance to save it.

But nothing has to be decided today, because one day in the process of saving a marriage, is as one drop of water in your favorite nearby lake!

Slow down, get the book, read it cover to cover, and in the mean time, do huge amounts of reading in these forums and on Dr. Harley's website. There is much to learn about relationships, affairs and human nature. Everything you learn will help you in your current situation, or your next romantic adventure.

You don't have to make decisions that can affect the rest of your life in the blink of an eye. Cool down some, become educated, and make your choices on well thought out decisions...

Best wishes,
SD

Too late, I always tend to move too fast. I've filed for custody, she knows and won't talk to me now.

It's for the best. This woman can be crazy and so can I. We don't fit together and I just want my daughter to have the best she can.

I wish I didn't move so fast. I wish I was a different type of person. I didn't do anything to deserve this, but that's just it, I didn't do anything. I've mouthed off to her now, I've said things in emails. I guess she's right, I am a jerk. I'll be lucky to get 50/50 with my little girl.

I don't know what to do anymore. So many people telling me what to do, me wanting resolution now now now. I'm too impulsive, and don't have enough patience. I need to learn to slow down and process more. I need to learn to keep my cool.

It's all over now, no turning back. We couldn't live together anyway, we knew this, her infidelity was just one of the last nails in the coffin. Besides, it was with a woman. I need to get away from her influence and back to the way I was before I met her. It'll take time, but longer because of custody stuff, and shuffling and who knows, maybe I'll only get every other weekend and 1 night a week. I won't be able to handle that.

I can't believe that she would want to take my daughter away from me, she knows how much she means to me. She's going to probably go for sole custody. She might change her mind once she talks to a lawyer though.