This issue came up in a discussion I'm having off the board and I'd love to hear what some of you guys think about this.

Is the end of the affair and the ground rules for transparency and safety for the BS something that should be POJA'd - or should these things be met by the WS for the BS...and then once safety ground rules are in place, POJA should become the rule of thumb?

My thinking, based on my experience with Steve Harley, is that first comes NC, radical honesty, transparency, etc, as the BS needs, and then POJA can be implemented, but not before.

We talk alot about negotiating the end of the affair around here..and alot about POJA in recovery...

But I am wondering if people are thinking that the BS should negotiate his or her safety with a WS?

What are your thoughts?

Hi Rosie,

I asked Steve this very question when coaching with him. Steve responded similar to the above which aligns with your session with him.

Whew, glad my old brain cells are still working...

I was pretty sure I remembered it that way...but needed a sanity check - thank you thank you.

He11 NO. I agree with you BR.

Hi BR,

Thanks for all the help you invested in the Enabling/Controlling thread. Not sure if you've seen how that thread's evolved to Control issues. I've posted my most recent 'event' on my Smiles & Trials 2 thread on the recovery forum. But I will condense and post the results on the Enabling/Controlling thread, too.

I think I got these steps confused, hence DH rebelled against my attempts at what he perceived to be my controlling him. (In hindsight, I think I now know why he may have been right in thinking that.)

Again, thanks! Your insights (and those of many others) have been priceless, especially for mvg and me.

Ace

Not negotiate but establish. This sounds more like a boundary issue to me. A requirement to have an R and for the M to move forward.

POJA takes 2. WS put a greater gap in the R & M. That one has a longer walk back to the R & M. If the BS decides to be patient and allow time for the Xws to catch up, that's up to the BS.

JMHO,
L.

BR - Was this just a philosophical discussion you were having?

I've always viewed transparency as a binary thing. You are either transparent or are not. There really are not a lot of terms to negotiate.

I don't see a whole lot to be POJA'd, so just curious what was being talked about.

hi rprynne - i was talking with someone about their sitch off the board...

but i was tired and having a senior moment where I questioned my own sanity...

lol, i'm better now, thank goodness.