Been married 16yrs, three wonderful teens. At year 5 dh had an afair, moved out for just over 2 months, devastated me. He moved home said he was greatful that I didn't give up on him. I let the whole thing fade into the background. Had no reason ever to expect anything.
This past spring things became quiet between the two of us. Uncomfortably so... end of May he says the famous "don't love you anymore, don't know if I ever really did", not leaving because of her, haven't been happy for sometime now..blah, blah.
Little background here- never fight, never call each other names, never raise voices or treat each other with disrespect. Pretty good marriage if i do say so, ok... a little lacking in the bedroom, he'd like it all the time. In fact during his "on my way out speech" said he was a nympho.
I was devestated... some days though I thought I'd be ok, I'd come along way in 11 years, earned a BS. Anyway, I begged and pleaded time and again for him to change his mind. He couldn't believe I would want him to come back after doing what he'd done. I said I didn't care, I was better with him than without, I could forgive and move on.
Well this went on for 7 weeks. He came bome, we spent a lot of alone time together, a lot of weekend trips just the two of us... lots of intimacy, I'd come to understand that it was for the two of us to enjoy, not just him. It was great.
School year started, things got busy, he started talking to OW in the middle of Oct... a week before Thanksgiving he said it wasn't working, he'd tried and he just doesn't love me the way a husband should love his wife. I cried some more, said we didn't do enough "work" that it needed more time, how could you do this just before the holidays, he said he wouldn't go anywhere until after the holidays. Well he doesn't have a "plan".
I asked him if she's invited him to stay he says no, but he's pretty sure if he needs a place she'll let him. We surely can't afford a place for him to stay. It makes me ill. She's been with more married men than just mine. I told him he's "better than that", he just shakes his head no. I said she'll hurt you, he says he probably deserves it.
What no one understands is he really IS a decent guy, it seems like something creeps in and takes over his body every once in awhile. He's still so very caring towards me, and I can honestly see that when I'm hurt it hurts him. I know he didn't plan on hurting me, it just happened, he is making the choice to continue seeing her and it disgusts me, but I still want him home. Some days I can get it in my head that I'll be ok without him, I'll be ok without the grouchieness he has when driving or trying to fix something etc.
I won't however be ok without his financial support, so that makes me sad and mad and i worry about the kids and i being put out of our house, not being warm or going hungry.
ugh... I just don't know what to do. I do show him love, he knows I love him. I've probably been pretty pathetic the past two days, but Christmas is coming and he is going.
Time to go into an excellent Plan A. You can read all about it here. It is showing him what a wonderful wife you can be with no disrespectful judgements or angry outbursts.
You can QUIT begging, crying and pleading with him too.
Have you exposed the affair to kids, his parents, yours, friends?
I think I've been following a Plan A right from the beginning from what I can tell/what I've been reading.
I've never been disrespectful or judgemental, never had angry outbursts.
Most everyone (kids, family, closest friends) know that he is once again seeing the "troll" he saw during the summer. she isn't married any longer, actually cheated on her husband and vise versa.
I posted that I cry, beg and plead, but it's more I just get so sad and the tears just fall, can't help but think he's throwing away a 16yr marriage for a skank... no I don't call her these names in his presents, though I'd like to.
Read about Plan A, but also read the Harley stuff about marriages in general. I recommend His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. You can learn about emotional needs and maybe figure out which of his you weren't meeting. I'm sure you have some that he wasn't meeting, either, but your needs go on the shelf for the time being.
Like believer asked, have you exposed? Is it a workplace affair? Exposure is your best tool to break up the affair, and no recovery can take place until the affair stops.
Quote
it seems like something creeps in and takes over his body
This is the Fog of Adultery. He is now your Wayward Husband, not your husband. Don't expect him to be the same person, to make rational decisions, to be sensitive to your needs. Better to think of him as a drug addict or an alien who has possessed your husband.
Sorry you have to be here, but you've come to the right place.
SS - Change the H and W role and your story as well as timeline is almost the same. I found out about the EA at the end of May, did some MC and things looked like they were getting better until she dropped on me at the beginning of Nov. that she had become physical with the OM and did know if your marriage could work. Same line about after Christmas, same lack of plan (She bought a sofa from a neighbor and doesn't have an apartment yet). I've only been posting for about two weeks now, and the amount of help you get is incredible. I also use it board as my personal journal which helps me out.
Don’t give up hope even if some days it will seem that there is not much of it there. When I feel hopeless I come here and read about some of the successes of which there are plenty.
Is it the same OW that he had an affair with 11 years ago? Why did he come back to you after moving out for two months? How are they in touch again after 11 years?
I am asking these question because it seems that you could have done someting to "distance" these two. You should definately consider moving IF he ever comes back again.
I am so sorry you are here and in pain. I truly understand the pain and feel it very often. Please know that people on here will come and give you some of the greatest help you could possibly get. They are warm and caring and understand what is happening.
Sometimes they ask you to do things that are out of your comfort zone. Do them, they know that they say. They walked before us.
I will add you to my prayer list and my hope for you is that you find peace with G-d through this time. He is your strength and faith. I am not there yet, but learning that daily.
Sorry you and your family are dealing with this. As SD suggested, do some reading on the books SD recommended, take the EN questionnaire (once as you and 2nd time as him), contact Steve H @ MB for some phone counseling or find an MC in your area familiar with MB concepts.
Need to get you on a plan. Steve w/b great even though he costs a pretty penny, he is definitely worth it.
As for the OW and Ws, well..... they are both sickos. You want your H back not the WS.
How are the children? Is the OW a co-worker, gold digger? What do you know about the OW?
""He's still so very caring towards me, and I can honestly see that when I'm hurt it hurts him. I know he didn't plan on hurting me, it just happened, he is making the choice to continue seeing her and it disgusts me,""
I think you should look deeper at this. Read this a number of times. Your dear H is not what he seems. I detect crocodile tears here.
HE IS MAKING THE CHOICE TO CONTINUE SEEING HER!!! He is a fence sitting cake-eater.
Plan A'ing to a cake-eating fence sitter does not work if the, dare we say, "serial cheater", is comfortable with, nay reveling in the sitch.
He disguises and blurs his actions by becoming hurt when he sees he is hurting you. BUT THEN HE DOES IT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN!! I say that is BULLPOOP.
Plan A is not working because it plays right into his having it BOTH WAYS...WITH NO CONSEQUENCES.
Shoot, he can do this indefinitely, smirking as he heads out the door to her.
Plan B is in order..or some big D papers arriving at his door might wake him up.
I have to agree with Krusht, your WH is cake eating. If you are going to continue with plan A, IMO it should be of short duration. I would also suggest, while you are in plan A, start preparing yourself for Plan B financially. If he leaves you, he still has financial obligations to his family and you will need to insure that he fulfills them. How he finances his next residence is not your concern, do not allow him to take resources from you and your children.
Right now, he is having some needs met by OW and some by you. Once you are no longer available to meet those needs (plan B) OW will either meet them or they will go unmet. This will put a strain on their R and help hasten the end of the A.
I am sorry that this is happening to you. It is tough enough to go go thru, but worse at the holidays.
Oh, no, this isn't the same OW he was with 11 years ago... we've since relocated. This is some dumb ho who came into the bar and cried in her beer and he listened and then she listened to him. I hate it because they grew up in the same town and I didn't, they can talk about things from the past that I can talk about with him, but we do have 16+ years together.
Christmas eve, we had a conversation. I told him to never for any reason bring her around here, he promised he wouldn't. We talked about other things. She still hasn't asked him to move in, I'm sure he would have already packed if she had. And he can't afford to live anywhere else. What I don't understand is how to go along with a Plan A, but not allow him to be a cake-eater, as some have referred to him as. I can't stop him from spending the night over there. And if I call him on it when he does come home that just seems like it would cause LB's. This is just so confusing... and here I thought I was the only one with such a wonderful WH who regardless of how this turns out wants to remain friends LOL!! It's amazing to read that lots of WS's use the same lines as my WH did. I'm so glad I found this MB! I'm sure it will help me to stay sane.
Pray for me... his family is all coming for Christmas, tomorrow. His mom knows he's involved again, and so does one B and SIL... the oldest brother doesn't, yet.
I just want someone to knock some sense into him!!!
I've just started learing about Plan A. I want to win him back, out affair her. Plus I found out her mom is not happy with what she is doing ;-)
He still lives at home, from what I understand Plan B doesn't work that way, and I'm NOT going to kick him out. What does that say to him, fine go have fun. Plus he could use that later "well you kicked me out" or to the kids "your mom kicked me out".
So Christmas with his mom, and two brothers and their wives and kids went fine. Both SILs and Mom know he is seeing her again. Right now they are very supportive, but from what I've seen others talk about, that could easily change, so I won't count on them.
I'm almost positive he won't be home tonight ;-( I'll have to get up alone tomorrow and go to work with an aching heart!
OK... heading to study up on Plan B I guess.
any suggestions from those who've been around longer??
yes, the OW has two elementary aged kids. Ours are teens. I so hope things don't go well over there. I hope she hates his snoring, I hope she has bad morning breath, I hope her kids drive him nuts. I hope she argues and yells and swears.
That is very typical - buying gifts. Don't worry, he will get sick of her kids quickly. It is probably better that he move in with her quickly so the fantasy will come to a screeching halt.
He didn't waste any time... he said after the holidays... sure enough, his mom and brothers hadn't been gone an hour and he "went out"... and didn't come back. I new he wouldn't but of course I wanted him to.
How do I prevent him from having his cake and eating it too? Yet not do the whole love busters thing??
everyone knows, but people are like, it's their problem, I'm not getting involved, his moms sad, his families disappointed, my bf said "have fun", his bf is having problems with his wife. the OW mom isn't too happy, which helps.
I need an overview of plan A I thought I had bookmarked someones "list" but can't find it.
Called to see if the kids had gotten up yet, dd14 answered, said WH wasn't home yet, figured he was waiting for me to go to work... I hate that he'll be at the house without me, of course I don't want to watch him pack if/when he does, but I also want to know what's going on and he isn't communicating!
So, he emails saying he's going to get the kids a pizza @ 4... I figure so he won't feel bad about not being around when it's dinner time. Fine! Then he calls me while I'm at work and chats and says he's coming to visit.
I saw your post on mine. What questions are you specifically looking for. That was the first thing that I was directed to think of.
Ask away and see what answers you get. If the answers bring up more questions, ask the questions. People are here posting to you, and you are getting really helpful information, what is it that you need that you don't feel you are getting.
SS, keep reading Skins thread, I know it's long but I found it very helpful. You may want to look at mine as well. I had some severe difficulties in starting up Plan A, and I had many vets get me on track.
That is really kind of you to say. Maybe one day it will click on what I am doing that's so successful, because I surely don't see it. However, the time people are giving me is what is making me survive this right now and I am so appreciative and feel so less alone.
You see SS, this woman is a champ!!! She has found strength where many would have thrown it the towel. Also, take her advice... lots of questions, the vets will respond. I also do all my venting here as well... better than LBing on my WW.
Sorry you are here, but this is the best place to be in this situation. Have you read Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley? It's referred to as SAA on this site. It gives details on Plan A and Plan B. It would be a good place to start.
Also, don't spend any energy trying to figure out why your WH is "throwing away" so much. All waywards are like this. They can completely walk away from their reputations and integrity, ignore their kids, cut old friends out of their lives, and even insist that God doesn't mind that they are violating His covenant and breaking one the commandments because God "wants me to be happy." Yep-and stranger things have come out of the mouths of waywards.
There is a running analogy around here that all WS's are sent to the "affair mothership" and have their brains transplanted by the "aliens" because they all seem to act the same, spout the same lines, and behave in similar ways.
Don't waste your energy trying to figure it out. Try to find SAA, read everything you can on this site, and keep posting.
I ordered SAA and HNHN the other day, they say they've been shipped, so I'm expecting them anytime now. I hope it isn't too late!!
He seems so confused. And I sooooo love the alien analogies! They fit perfectly! I know I should stop wondering about things... but I do! I wonder if the alien has not completely taken over, because sometimes I see the look in his eyes that are begging for this crazieness to stop and at other times it's that glassed over evil look, the scary one!
All of his clothes are still at home. I guess he's just going to come and go as he pleases for now... until I or the OW=troll tell him where to go... but like I've said before I don't want it on me to "kick him out."
Popped in during my lunch break... big mistake, I couldn't even look at him, I was too sad. I was making a couple calls "taking care of business"... ordered fuel, cancelled newspaper subscription, looking for a furnace dude... etc. I was sad, couldn't get myself to be nice, couldn't talk to him period.
He took dd where she needed to go and I went back to work. He sent an email saying something about he hopes "we can still be happy to see one another" I emailed back saying I was happy to see him but hurt because he didn't come home last night.
I have never used the words "I want you to end this dumb affair" should I??
he called me from work. For the most part he usually doesn't miss too many nights of calling me when he's at work. I asked him if he'd be coming home to sleep in the morning, he answered "yes"... like with a duh tone... and then appoligized right away and said I guess that was a ligitimate question.
I just need to know what's going on with those two... does she not want him to move in, because I'm sure he would already be there, he isn't staying here because he wants to. I hate this!!! I know I just need to take a step back and breath and let this play out for awhile, but I hate it!!!
Hold tight. I'm too new myself to tell you anything usefull, but the vets will check in I'm sure. (Weekends are pretty slow). Follow your own suggestion for now. I would be looking at this as being a positive sign... he's still there. Whatever you do do not LB. If you got to vent do it here.
I think it is necessary for you to do an EXCELLENT, SHORT, Plan A. If you do it too long, you are liable to lose your love for him, since he has been out of the home before. So please look up all the Plan A stuff. Read Skinsgirl's posts, or LilSis's.
Set a time limit for how long you will do it. I would suggest until the end of February or so.
Is he paying for the family living costs? That is a MUST.
Also do your kids know about the affair? It is important to talk with them about it.
been keeping up on skinsgal's thread. yes, all his money still goes in the joint account. teens know he's being unfaithful, they know he sleeps elsewhere when he wants to, don't know what more I should talk to them about. I know they already don't like the ow, because they see the pain it has cost me.
I honestly can say I've been doing plan a all along, yes I have my bad moments where I tear up and can't look at him, but other than that I have done NO LB's
I'm wondering??? if when he is at home, when we are together, when we talk on the phone that I should "act" like things are great between us, not talk about any negatives and just try to be happy? I feel like I've done just about everything I can... Harley books are in the mail, so I'll read those when they come. As for him, I think he's waiting on an invitation from her, to move. ack!!
Sadly moving in with her might be the best thing for him. If he does that, you need to prepare for Plan B. The biggest danger here is that YOU will lose your love for him completely.
Tell your children that you have a plan. That seems to help.
As far as how you act around hubby, just be calm, cheerful and pleasant. When he sees the OW, let him know that it hurts you.
Are you still having sex with him? I don't advise it without STD checking.
the sex is such a huge issue! 1- i worry about std's 2- i hate the thought that he's probably also doing it with at least one other woman 3- it makes me feel cheap afterwards... i told him the other day that he'd have to start buying condoms, i don't want to take any chances, but at the same time, sex is so important to him that if it's denied that would be a MAJOR LB!
why do you think his moving in with her "might be the best thing for him"?
Why does he have to buy condoms, can't YOU buy them? I think moving in with her could be the BEST thing for YOU. Since you will be rid of his sorry butt. And maybe you will be then getting a divorce and you can have a good life.
If he stays going from her home to yours it will just drag on the agony for you and delay you having a nice life without a lot of heartache.
So besides the WS not knowing for sure what they want to do... I bet the BS goes through the same uh, not sure what to call it... doubt? I'm wondering outloud ;-) do I want him back because I might not be able to have him? you know that saying "you want what you can't have"... but then I pleaded for him to come home this summer and he did and I was as thrilled as could be!
So he did come home after work, slept, stayed here all day, ate dinner and went to work... so HA to her!! he didn't see her today! And I just IM chatted with him for about two hours. I know things are still up in the air as to what he's going to do... but I guess each day he is here it's one more day he isn't with her... I just wish I could quit obsessing about this!! I want to get on with life!
Thanks for the support... could I please ask for prayers as well? Thank you!!
stressing.... giving myself a migraine. Tonight is his last night shift before two days off, I bet he'll disappear on me again! Yikes this is so hard!! I made a mistake of saying something about a schedule last week so I'll know when he'll be around and when he won't. I know that's a plan A no no. So when he mentioned on IM last night that he was having a hard time coming up with one because he likes to come and go and admittedly said he was a selfish sort of person, I didnt respond, because really I don't want a schedule telling me that he's with her! ick!
at least he's here... sleeping for another day, but who knows what tomorrow brings I soooo hate this!!!
There is NO ONE on here who LIKE this. But this is what we are dealt to deal with today. And all you have to do is get through today. Let G-d have tomorrow as when it gets here G-d will be there with you today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Do you pray? Can you ask G-d to help you and show you his will for you. Or help you to know what you need to do for HIM. G-d is there if you seek him. He wants YOU to become completely DEPENDENT on him, not yourself and not your WH, seek G-d and he will answer someway, somehow if you LISTEN.
yep i'm a prayer... I have asked that I am able to "handle" whatever path it is I am given, my heart is actually beating quite hard right now and almost feel as if I can't take in enough air... I said dd#2 is having a friend over tonight, he said what if I'm not around tomorrow to babysit, I said well they are teens they just need to be checked up on... I said aren't you going to be sleeping anyway, he says yes, but just for a bit... ugh means he probably has plans on seeing her ;-( I said something about going shopping in the evening, he said it's supposed to snow I said how about tuesday, same thing lots of snow. i don't know how long this can go on him coming and going as he pleases, i mean he's still real nice (other than that) we're still very! pleasant to one another. ok, well gonna help him with dinner then he showers and leaves for work ;-( we'll probably have a chance to im each other this evening which is nice, but he's probably im'ing with her at the same time ;-(
You are absolutely amazing to be doing what you are doing. I am in complete awe of how you are able to do what you are doing. I can't imagine having my WH coming and going as he pleased, knowing it. NO WAY.
G-d is PORTECTING you. He is LOVING you and we are SUPPORTING you.
I often think that what we are going through has a higher purpose than we realize. And what you are going through will create a strength inside of you that will be a true testament to the love of G-d.
He isn't trying to hide it... I often wonder and have asked does he want me to kick him out? He says he wouldn't blame me if I did, he's also said he isn't surprised he hasn't found his stuff in bags out in the driveway.
TMTS- I think you do know how it feels, it sucks and my heart goes out to you as well.
believer- I make about a third of what he does when it comes to income. Right now all of his and all of mine go into our joint account, I pay the bills and then he takes what he can. I should have started this long ago, but didn't believe it was necissary, I'm putting a bit aside per pay check for emergency, incase he pulls all out! He has assured me time and again that he is willing to make sure the kids and I stay in the house... but once the troll has her claws in him that could change.
skins... sorry to say but go COWBOYS ;-p
Actually I'm a broncos & patriots fan, but cowboys would be #3
I can relate to what you are going through. My H spent nights out after D-DAY, ending up spending each weekend with her so don't feel like your situation is unusual. I did MY PLAN A which turns out to have been effective..in the midst of all of that...
OUR 5 YEAR D-DAY ANNIVERSARY is tomorrow...and we have never been happier...not saying the same will be true for you..but the best option is for you to work the MBer's PLANS...
What do you think caused your marriage to be vulnerable to the OW?
So the kids and I went to a movie... he texted me asked if I wanted to chat, I ignored it til we got home which was about 20 minutes. So I get on line we start chatting, I start flirting, joking about him sneaking away for a quicky, he was about to do it and then typed "don't want to give you false hope" well that there took all the fun out of it. we chatted a bit more then he said something about him being here when he'd rather be with someone else. UGH!!! I again reminded him how I could forgive him and we could rebuild, he said it wasn't like he went lookin to start a relationship with someone with two younger kids and baggage, it just happened. So I was bawling my eyes out thinking it's definatly time for Plan B, told him I could no longer chat and got of the instant messenger thing. AAAHHH!! No for sure he won't be coming home in the morning! What I don't understand is why he's been coming home and spending soooo much time here if he didn't want to work it out, I don't get it!!! All I can pray for is that she doesn't want him anymore, but my luck is she does, I just don't know what their plan is... guess it's time to start a plan b letter, anyone have good examples??
I haven't even gotten my harley books in the mail yet, and now it's probably too late anyway! I am soooo sooo sad!!
mimi... what caused the marriage to be vulnerable... me being on stupid medicine that knocked me out and had me sleeping all the time, it took months to change doctors and when he put me on something else and i had energy to finally spend time with my dh, it was too late ;-(
Sorry I haven't posted to you in a couple of days. My boys have been hogging the computer while they take over the ancient world (some computer game called Total War) but I don't mind because YS and OS only get to hang out when OS is home from college.
You are doing great-even though it doesn't feel like it. We all have melt downs, and doubts, and we all experience the roller-coaster of emotions that go along with trying to survive an A. Keep coming here with your rants, your fears, your questions.
You are in good company here-with folks who understand the searing pain of an A. The folks here at MB helped me when I thought I was losing my mind and they supported me when I didn't really have anyone else to turn to. My family was supportive, but they couldn't truly understand-because they haven't been in these shoes (and I wouldn't wish them on anyone).
ok, I won't give up on Plan A... please Mr. Mailman bring me my books today!!!
Snow day, will be sitting in, relaxing ;-)
No surprises here... he didn't come home after he got off work this morning ;-(
We chatted online for a long time. I can see how he IS trying to make this easier for me. But I'm not giving up and I said that to him AGAIN.
Did any of you BSs ever feel like your WS was depressed and did it turn out to be so? Are there ever any husbands who do seek treatment for depression or all they all in denial about it being something that CAN happen to men?
Did any of you BSs ever feel like your WS was depressed and did it turn out to be so? Are there ever any husbands who do seek treatment for depression or all they all in denial about it being something that CAN happen to men?
I think my H's depression was the impetus for his affair. The OW was his antidepressant and he became addicted to her. The MBers' approach views an affair as an ADDICTION and it certainly was true for MY HUSBAND. The OW was able to provide an INSTANT HIGH for him. He even USED to say that she SAVED HIS LIFE..when he was suicidal..YUCK...
So when does he usually come home after pulling this?
No surprises here... he didn't come home after he got off work this morning ;-(
Ouch, that must hurt. I just see something VERY wrong with this picture here that he spend a night at home the following night at OW's place, even if you're doing Plan A.
There must be more that she can do. Any more vets with some insight or advice?
I just see something VERY wrong with this picture here that he spend a night at home the following night at OW's place, even if you're doing Plan A. Any vets with some insight or advice?
There is NOTHING WRONG! This is TYPICAL! The WS is typically in contact with the OP during PLAN A. That's the POINT of PLAN A!!
Serenity...stay the course...
I guess I'm considered A VET..5 year DD Anniversary TODAY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Hi SS...just wanted you to know I read your post and will be cheering you on. I cannot imagine how hard this must be for you-watching him cake-eat. Our sitch was a little different, and I don't think want2stay would have put up with that much from me.
Everything the vets are telling you is true...all us WSs spew the same crap. Like I told TMTS last night, I still cannot make sense of where my head was during that time. But the fact that he is not gone, and is not being verbally cruel (most of the time) should help you to do a good Plan A for a short time at least.
So sorry you are here...but you are in good hands with believer and mimi, among others!
mimi, he'd come home after he's slept for awhile, "to see the kids"... doesn't really spend time with them though, he's supposed to take DD to basketball practice, but it might be cancelled due to snow, so if he doesn't come home for that he'll be by at some point for clothes, i don't think he has a change of them over there yet.
last night while chatting he did mention something about a spare room at BFs house, he thought he might move there... i would be happier about that, but others on here have said moving in with troll would make things end quicker between the two... oh i just don't know... off to read a book and enjoy the snow day...
i really do appreciate the support and feedback for ALL of YOU!!! thank you, thank you!!!
I wouldn't encourage the idea of him moving in with her.
It certainly may happen..but FIRST THINGS FIRST.
During PLAN A, it's your job to ask him to come home.
That's how you can do THE BEST PLAN A...
My H EVENTUALLY left and EVENTUALLY moved in with the OW..but it was well after MY PLAN A..so when he did move in with her, HE MISSED ME..That's your goal. You want to create POSITIVE MEMORIES of you during this time. His last memories of you prior to PLAN B need to me UTTERLY POSITIVE.
thank you mimi... i had read that one before, and was actually searching for it earlier to re-read... I copied pasted saved and printed it this time. thank you!
I suspect he isn't moving in with her because there is some reason he hasn't spoke about.
I wonder about HER reason for his not moving in over there. You talked about her sleeping with OM, and you believe she is divorced now? Are you sure that divorce is final, or is it a legal separation, and if your H moved in it would be some violation, or affect her settlement, etc.?
Or maybe, there is an Other-OtherMan?
If she is promiscuous, there are many possibilities here. It might pay for you to snoop a little on the OW and find out for sure. Sometimes what the WS tells you cannot be trusted, especially about the marital status of the OP.
Double-check it to be sure, and expose to her husband if you find out that they are not fully divorced. Threaten HER income if possible (if the divorce isn't final), it might make for fireworks in affair-land. Also, if the divorce decree makes for a change in finances if he moves in, this might be why she doesn't want your H to make that move, and it might help if you let her ex-husband know about your H hanging out there.....again, throw that bomb if you have it.
There's a post called the carrot and the stick of plan A, you should read it for some good pointers. Plan A isn't all about goodness and then allowing yourself to get walked on. You have to stand your ground some, too. Look on Pepperband's notable posts thread for it.
ok, OW was married and they both cheated on each other. he died about a year ago from cancer. so that can't be the reason he isn't moving in right now. I was re-reading some email from my WH from the middle of Nov, he admits that moving in with her this summer was wrong and he has no "intention" of doing that "any time soon" I hate those words!!!
Anyway he showed up to clear the driveway, stayed for a tiny bit... I did tell him I'd like him to be at home with us and I did mention that it hurts me when he goes over there, and it hurts not knowing when he'd be coming home... HE DIDN"T SAY anything!!! grrrrr!!
at some point he must have taken clothes over there or had a change in his car, because he wasn't wearing what he left for work in yesterday evening. oh well.
Surviving an Affair came in the mail today... going to fix supper and then veg out reading it for the evening. yippee big NY plans, ick!!!
OR sounding like the classic-cakeeater..he's lying to you..really moving in..and not wanting to tell you..in order to keep the peace with you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
this has been the worst year of my life! I never in my life imagined I would be going through this. I honestly believed that if something like this were to happen I'd have no problem telling him to hit the road and don't look back. But NO instead I'm pathetic... stupid and would still take him back! ugh!! He comes and goes as he pleases, never letting me know before hand what his plans are. I still love the dumb fool! What does that say about me?! This kind of treatment SHOULD be illegal!
I never in my life imagined I would be going through this. I honestly believed that if something like this were to happen I'd have no problem telling him to hit the road and don't look back. But NO instead I'm pathetic... stupid and would still take him back!
On my limited knowledge of this, I always said the same thing. Instead of looking at it as a fault that you haven't told him to hit the road. Look at it as G-d's will is working in your life. G-d loves M and hates D. Standing for your M and doing what is full of integrity, pain, growth and FAITH is an amazing gift you are giving yourself and your children.
If more people were like US, I believe there would be less A. As Mimi says to me over and over again, CHEST OUT, HEAD UP. Be proud of what you are doing. It's the way G-d wants you to walk through this. You will be an inspiration to many who follow in our footsteps and you are gaining insight and knowledge to pass on to others on here one day.
There is a scripture that either JT or Mark gave me about the sacrificing ourself for the bigger good. And I do believe there is good on the other side of this.
Quote
I still love the dumb fool! What does that say about me?!
It says you are an amazing woman with a HUGE capacity to love in circumstances that are beyond horrific and that G-d has FAITH in you because he knows what you are CAPABLE of.
Quote
This kind of treatment SHOULD be illegal!
I am not sure if that's possible, but it should be harder for marriages to break up and then, possibly then we would all try harder.
We all thought we would be done with them if they cheated. In fact, I threw my husband out on D-day. Only people who have gone through this understand.
And you will never regret that you did your very best to save your marriage.
I have people who tell me the same thing, but those who truly love me understand why I'm doing this. Believer says it all. You are doing what is right for you, and no one should take that away from you.
You are doing what you can to save your M and no one can fault you for that.
mimi... I don't have a clue, I don't think I have a clue anyway... I was wondering if I'm enabling him to continue his affair.
He showed up around 3ish, dd had called and asked him about two dvds, he said he'd bring them by. I think he would have stopped in anyway, to get a change of clothes.
So I was reading SAA and he played games on the pc. Then went upstairs for a bit. I believe I filled lots of EN without being grossly attentive.
At one point he was picking out clothes, to shower and change into, he said he needed a basket so he could do his own laundry, because he didn't expect me to continue doing it. I said (probably shouldn't have) "why can't you do it over there? (not in a negative tone or anything, very normal conversation style) He said "because I'm not allowed to touch the washing machine." OK strange... I dropped it, I bet it's one of her things right now making him feel comfortable like he doesn't have to lift a hand to do house work or anything... not like he ever did much around here! Anyway!
He stuck around for supper. Earlier he had mentioned something about maybe taking the kids sledding if they have a snow day tomorrow. I waited til we were all eating and said "hey wait a minute, you guys don't have sleds, how are you going to take them sledding unless you go out and buy some?" LOL knowing full well he was probably going to take along skanks two kids and use their sleds. It took him by surprise then he said "well I'm not going to spend alot to get sleds." I really, really, really!!!!! can I say that again I really really don't want my kids and her kids together! I don't even want my kids to meet her. I've said some not nice things about this OW to them, so they already have a negative thought towards her. Granted if we do D and he eventually marries someone else I would expect the kids to respect her, but not this trashy, bar hopping, homewrecker, who knew he was MARRIED! before she got involved with him. (yes I blame WH too, but I HATE her).
Ok enough ranting. I actually "felt" ok today! And darn it! I'm going to feel good tomorrow too ;-)
Please bare with me. I continue to appreciate the support, advise, suggestions.
I'm wondering if any of you WSs, FWSs, vets, etc... have gone through this, or had these feelings, did they last, is it fog, or am I freaking out!
I've gone through folders of pictures and found many occasions that brought memories of DH being grouchy, not happy, me feeling on edge and tense. I guess I'm having doubts that plan A is good enough to bring him home. Plan B from what I understand is no contact, I don't like that. We can't remain friends if that's the case. I know friends don't betray friends like he has, but right now that's beside the point. I could see us remaining friends and enjoying certain outings or occasions together with the kids. Because of his work schedule the past few years I've gotten used to going to sleep alone, A LOT. Did you, do you ever think it would cause less heart ache to give in at this point. I've always loved the good parts of him, and I've always believed marriage was for life. Now I'm just confused, maybe in the fog as well... I don't know.
Speaking for myself, if my H had not returned I would not have been HIS FRIEND.
I was very clear that I would have nothing else to do with him.
My kids are grown. it would have been simple.
To me, MARRIAGE is a special relationship. GOD put my H and I together. Yes, my H is MY FRIEND but much, much more. Would you just CHOOSE to be just friends with your MOTHER or your FATHER. A man and woman leave their parents and go into their marriage FOR LIFE.
No, PLAN A may not result in the reconciliation of your marriage. It probably will require PLAN A and then PLAN B...but FOR ME...I was willing TO WORK these PLANS to the best of MY ABILITY to restore MY MARRIAGE because I BELIEVE in MARRIAGE and I believed in MARRIAGEBUILDERS.
And if the MBers Plans did not result in the Recovery of our marriage, I knew that I could walk away with my head held high, having known that I did all that I personally could do.
I wasn't willing to settle for the CRUMBS of FRIENDSHIP. I was/am HIS WIFE..a DIAMOND not a piece of glass..deserving a FEAST..not his crumbs...
Start by working on your self-esteem..believing in YOURSELF..not settling for the crumbs that he wants to hand out to you...
My whole stitch started out asking the same question, so yes I can say that I had the exact same feelings/questions about a month ago.
The message I got back is that these feelings and emotions are normal, and there is no understanding someone under the influence of the fog. Give yourself a hug knowing that what you are experiencing is not crazy.
Now I'm also too new to make comments on Plan a or B, but if you read some of the links under the vets name (especially Marks musings) you will get a better idea of the true purpose of Plan A and B.
Sorry I can't tell you anything that would really help you, but know that if we hang in there we could be the next generation of vets helping people like ourselves and letting people know how recovery is going. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
When was the last time you did something for yourself? I find that a good run helps me.
I can only implore you to soak up everything Mimi is telling you and keep asking questions when you need to clarify. She understands what you are going through and understands what this is all about.
I too am working on my self-esteem. As she did from the beginning. Read her threads and you will see from what she says is unbelievable wisdom, knowledge and guidance.
Quote
When was the last time you did something for yourself? I find that a good run helps me.
I find a good beating of the Cowboys on national tv helps me. LOL
oh,you are soooo bad!!! skinsgal ;-p That's ok us NEW ENGLANDERS have the Patriots!!
TMTS- a run would be nice... but I don't own a pair of snow shoes! Another snowday here for the kids!! Poor ds is out shoveling again, his muscles will be huge by the end of winter ;-)
We are still married, he's still (as of last night) still wearing his wedding band. I really don't want my kids to meet this OW or her kids... is there ANY way I can stop this from happening without LBing??
I really don't want my kids to meet this OW or her kids... is there ANY way I can stop this from happening without LBing??
AGREED. You should go to GREAT LENGTHS to keep this from happening. What makes you concerned about this NOW? Has he said something about this? How old are your kids?
They are 13, 14 & 15. He mentioned something one night while we were chatting online about them meeting her "at some point in the future". They say they don't want to have anything to do with her or her little kids. But that's to me, they might feel differently if he were to ask, or bribe or whatever.
I was soooo mad this afternoon. Kids had another snow day. I didn't have to go in until noon, but even then I had a hard time getting out of the drive. 14yo came out and helped me dig out enough... WH came by later with a friends plow to clear the driveway, but geesh I guess I should make arrangements with someone I can count on to do it so I don't miss work or make the kids late to school one of these days. I thought about saying something about that in an email but decided it'd probably be LBs, so for now I'm not mentioning it. He missed DD game, jerk!! Wonder what was more important...he's always said his kids come first, well he's not proving that.
I know exactly how they feel. I was that 14 year old, and didn't want anything to do with the OW. After a month and a half my M made my B and I go visit him. All I remember from that weekend is me sitting on the sofa not saying a word, and my brother beating up on her, pretending he was playing. SS the sad part is that it took my situation with my WW to finally come to grips with the anger and pain I had repressed. Keep a close eye on their feelings as they grow up. 25 years of caring pain is too long and was a factor in intimacy in my M.
He will realize what he did to his kids, and he will hurt over it. Unfortunately, he'll need to realize that in his own time.
Your kids will always see you as a hero in all of this, and will look to protect you from any more pain. I still see my M as my hero. I hope that brings you some comfort.
;-) yes that brings me comfort. And not to make light of this whole A issue... but I see them treating me with more respect and love right now, and maybe I'll be so lucky as to have them skip all the negatives that come with being a teenager... I could only hope ;-) We've actually been really lucky so far, they've been great kids, hard workers in school, do lots of work around the house (because it's always been required). I truly have been blest with three great kids!!
Did you all see Dr. Harley actually posted on one of the other boards. I think it was the relationship after divorce board, great thread ;-)
He mentioned something one night while we were chatting online about them meeting her "at some point in the future".
What did you say to this?
Quote
They say they don't want to have anything to do with her or her little kids. But that's to me, they might feel differently if he were to ask, or bribe or whatever.
Support THEIR CHOICE not to visit with HER and HER KIDS. You should do all in your POWER to keep your children away from such EVILNESS. So begin TALKING to them about this...so your WH cannot BRIBE them. Say; "Do not let your father BRIBE you"; if that's what you are thinking he will do. Say: "I support you not going to visit with them. It is WRONG!" Thankfully, they are old enough to have a say and to take care of themselves.
You were speaking about ENABLING yesterday. It is ENABLING to CONDONE his wrongness. That's not what PLAN A is about. It's OK to SPEAK OUT about how what he is doing is WRONG and UNACCEPTABLE to you. It's HOW you do it..not WHAT you say.
Quote
I thought about saying something about that in an email but decided it'd probably be LBs, so for now I'm not mentioning it.
Asking him to HELP you and to take care of his family is NOT LOVEBUSTING..YELLING and SCREAMING at him is..
I get the sense that you do not openly express your wants and concerns and then let the anger build up inside of you. There's a difference between speaking out truthfully and assertively and yelling and screaming.
Quote
Wonder what was more important...he's always said his kids come first, well he's not proving that.
Getting the FIX from the OW is what's most important to a wayward...Sorry... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
When he mentioned something about the kids eventually meeting OW I did not respond, I think I changed the subject or just ignored the comment.
I've never yelled or screamed at him. I was surely pissed when me and my daughter were out there digging the van out at noon. I am considering calling his bestfriends dad, letting him know that WH is once again staying the night at OW house and I can't count on him to plow when it snows, would he please do it, and I'd pay him whatever it costs regular customers, but then I thought that gets WH off the hook and gives him more time to be with OW, possibly enabling?
I used to yell and scream at the kids... but about five years ago I saw myself turning into my mother, I didn't want my kids to have the kind of memories I have, so I made a change!
Yes I hold in my wants and concerns, always have. Yes it builds anger, but it eventually goes away.
UGH, I just want this to end!! I'm wracking my brain searching all over the internet to come up with some way to end the affair. I don't know her mother, but I guess she isn't thrilled with the situation, if i could talk to her and tell her how hard I'm trying to save my marriage, that might be a bit of help, but I don't know her.
Well I sent him an email saying "you said over and over againg you wouldn't move in with her, yet you are staying there most of the time... we still have a lot to work on" he emailed back, "i'm not moving in with her, haven't found a place yet, don't want to sleep at home with you giving you false hope, will be home to talk tomorrow"
I emailed his mom letting her know that I'm fighting for my marriage, I haven't given up etc.
I emailed his bestfriend stating the same, plus mentioning that the OW's mother isn't too happy about the situation and that I wished others felt the same... hint, hint.
I'm sick of everyone looking the other way!! This is the biggest fight of my life, I should have help! And so far no one has stepped up and said to him "this isn't right" UGH!!!
I'm doing lots of praying, please pray for us, for him to leave her completely and for our marriage to be restored.
he emailed back, "i'm not moving in with her, haven't found a place yet, don't want to sleep at home with you giving you false hope, will be home to talk tomorrow"
Tomorrow he is likely gonna try to convince you to go along with all of this.
Maintain your fight and your position.
That FALSE HOPE crap is standard WS script. I heard it, too.
Regardless of what he says, maintain your desire for him to come home. Tell him that is what you want...that you are STRONG enough to handle it...
thank you mimi and tmts, I went to bed feeling low, but woke up feeling high. It's amazing this roller coaster of emotions. Today I feel so much better, ah I did fall asleep praying ;-) that's probably while I feel better today.
Gettin' ready for work, hope everyone has a nice day!
Talked to WH face to face for about 15 minutes, ended up crying of course. We needed to talk finances, plus he picked up a few groceries that DS told him we needed.
WH is looking for some place to stay, he doesn't (supposidly) want to move in with her, but he doesn't want to sleep here giving me false hope. I was going to offer the family room or couch but decided not to as of now, because then I go back to believing things are good, yet he'll still be "going out" whenever he wants, not that he was ever not allowed to go out, but it would be right in my face. He is still wearing his wedding band. I know I'm going to have major heartbreak when/if he takes it off. Last time he was out of the house for about two weeks then I noticed he wasn't wearing it anymore. UGH don't understand why I still love him so much... after so many lies and betrayals.
mimi and anyone else... so offering him to stay here even if it's on the couch, me and the kids knowing full well what he is going out for every night? I think that doesn't help when it comes to teaching the kids, not that him staying elsewhere right now is teaching them anything good. It's such a hard thing on one hand if he was here I know he wouldn't be at her house, but on the other he's still going to come and go as he pleases so what difference does it make? What a complicated mess!!
We should get him and my WW to have a chat, they may actually make sense to each other. They do things thinking that it helping us when it's just tearing us apart.
Hang in there SS, we'll all make it through this. I pray that it with your H and that the alien abduction ends soon.
AAHHHHHHH going through the credit card statements and bills trying to figure out what can and can't be paid this week and he's charging his D*** affair!! I soooo wanted to send him an email stating that I see the charges and tell him I hope that this doesn't cause me and the kids to lose the house!!! But I didn't send the email!
talking on line last night about expenses and bills, he wants to do bankruptcy ;-(
and he mentioned taking me off his insurance... it only costs $15 a week to keep me on. I couldn't keep talking to him, I had to disconnect I was so hurt and bawling so hard. It just seems like he's rushing through this so fast. Don't know how anyone could hang on and wait two years. I love him enough to do that, but ohhhhh the pain!!
I'm in the same mood this morning. I won't t/j here have a look at my thread.
I understand where you’re coming from, 2 years!!! How would anybody last that long? The pain is just too real, and what's worse is that they seem to not feel any of it. We're left with fighting for our M and having to deal with all the pain. And the wanting to get it over ASAP is all about appeasing their own guilt nothing more, we need to remember that this is all about them now and finding something that they think we cannot or will not provide. From the things I have read hear and in books, they are in for some rude reality checks because they are not fixing the root of the problem which is themselves.
Sorry to hear about him wanting to go the B route. Is it fairly easy in N.E.? I have no clue on these issues.
Hang in there, you have friends here to help you get through this.
You need to see an attorney. Your finances should be secured from the affair. There is no way he should be charging up supporting his affair and taking money from his family. It makes the affair last longer, and is also harder when you are deciding whether you want him back or not.
"You need to see an attorney. Your finances should be secured from the affair. There is no way he should be charging up supporting his affair and taking money from his family. It makes the affair last longer, and is also harder when you are deciding whether you want him back or not."
My WXH divorced me a couple of years ago, and the OW dumped him even before that, but my WXH is still paying off credit card bills he charged up wining and dining the OW plus paying for his midlife crisis toys! My WXH pays the support money the court ordered but when our kids have extra expenses (college, braces, etc.) he whines about his credit card payments...
Also, the sooner he has to cut back on the wining and dining of the OW, because it's time to stop spending and start paying off the credit card bills, the sooner she will lose interest in him.
(And guess who will get to help him pay it all off and live on a tight budget when his spending splurge is all over?)
Serenity (I love that name...I wish the same for myself...lol),
I am new here but I am in the kind of the same position you are. I know how this sucks, and you see a good plan in the MB ways, but sometimes it is so overwhelming. Heck, I have a hard time trying to remember which EN I am trying to meet when he is here and which LB I need to advoid when he is around. I just wanted to let you know that while I may not have any good advice, you are not alone, I empathize with you. You will added to my prayer list. I hope today is better than yesterday, and that tomorrow will be better than today.
Not2fun
ps. Don't worry about the "I don't want to give you any false hopes" line...my WS fed me that one on Sunday. It continues to amaze me how "unoriginal" these lines can be. Of course, I have to agree with you, that they are extremely painful to hear.....
Sorry about the above post. You posted on my thread my first day here. I didn't make the connection. I am sorry....and thanks for the encouraging words. Did you books come yet??? I already have both of them (if you posted that already I am sorry, I still trying to remember who's posts is who's, like I don't already have enough on the brain...lol).Anyway, I just wanted to apologize that I didn;t remember your post.
not2fun, hey don't worry about it. I've done the same thing. Plus I've gone through and read the same threads and not realized it 'til I'd spent another 15-20 minutes re-reading! I'd like to read more, but I'm trying to stick to just a few so I don't totally get confused, I read yours, TMTS, skinsgal, and maybe a couple others here and there.
It seems like some of the vets stick to certain ones as well. I'd sure like to steal Mark from TMTS... and have him come over and post on my thread ;-) Well WH was just here going over finance stuff. And talking about our BFs, CRAZY!! He went to pick up DD14 from basketball and he'll be right back, so I'll explain the weirdness after he leaves, which I'm sure he will ;-(
Did he give any indication that seeing the other side of the coin made any kind of impact? And more importantly, did he stick around for a while? It sounds like the guilt is really getting to him.
that is kind of weird. Guess we will see how that plays out. I got to see my BS tonight as well. I'll be putting that in my thread tonight. You all are going to be proud of me.....
tmts, I'm doing fine tonight. He was here for about 2.5 hours. I could "see" that what his BF is going through got to him, but I don't think it has sunk in yet-I hope he does a lot of thinking about it. I'm hoping when he left here that he went to see him, but maybe he just went to the OW.
not2fun, headed over to catch up on your thread.
*update... no not an update, hmmm guess I was just thinking of something that makes me sad/mad. I am the oldest of 5 kids. Dad passed away a few years ago. My dear middle brother at the age of 31 took his own life because he could not stand to live life as his wife was taking the kids and moving away to live with OM. This happened 19months ago. When my WH first informed me of his A and moved out in May, I avoided calling home. I wanted to be in a really "good place" mind wise when I talked to my mom and other siblings. Conversations went well, I didn't want them worrying about me. They knew he came back over the summer and I informed them in November that he was once again on his way out. No one!! has called to check in on the situation. Talk about a disfunctional family. Honestly growing up it wasn't that way. I don't know what happened. No, I'm not having a pity party, I'm actually too tired for that tonight ;-) I'm actually feeling ok about waiting WH out. I'm more stubborn that he is, and he knows it! I'm going to look into doing something one night a week, either join yoga or a scrapbooking class! My goal... find something to do!
Oh sweetie, I know how you feel about the family. I am so sorry. In my situation, my sister is a WW and is seperated from her BS (by his choice,not hers...when she told him A was already over) and they are on the road to R. My mom and dad separated on Thanksgiving week, mom was not happy (both have had A in their marriage, mom multiple...but that is not going on this time, they have been in/out of counceling for a couple of years now...). So we are all having a hard time dealing with each others messes. Mom looks like she could be headed down nervous breakdown lane. The only good thing is my sister TRULY realizes the pain she put her BH through when she talks to me. It has given her lots of guilt, some of it in a good way though. And she helps me because, she can explain what WS is thinking, or at least tell me that she thought the same thing whenever he fogspeaks to me.
So just remember, we are all here for you, we are just a "click" away. Think of us as "family" ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
It seems like some of the vets stick to certain ones as well. I'd sure like to steal Mark from TMTS... and have him come over and post on my thread ;-) SS
Serenity, hi there,
Can I make a suggestion if you'd like to talk to Mark, re-edit your thread title mention his name and invite him over. (mark .. I'd appreciate your input etc)
People don't read all the threads there are just too many.
Mark has been with me since I stated on MB, and I don't think (Sorry, I know), that I would be where I am now without his guidance. His analogies are especially helpful.
I was wondering about a couple of things... Could his 'troubles' finding a place have a lot to do with the financial situation? Could you use this to your advantage to invite him back home?
You kids are old enough to understand what is going on. Keep a close eye on them, I instantly became the Man of the house that day and stopped any kind of emotional growth. That is not so much a problem as the fact that I held on to the repressed feelings for 25 years. I know that in my case I was more worried about what happened to M than me. As for my F, I couldn't care less what he did at the time. As far as I was concerned he abandoned us and could live with the consequences. That something he will need to deal with at some point if he wants a relationship with them, and unfortunately it will be difficult for him to do while he's under the fog, because he will still tell himself that the Kids are ok.
Mt F told me recently that what snapped him out of the fog was the realization that we would be just fine without him. So in effect my M had imposed a Plan B after Plan FU and he did come back.
This is a story of hope that I tell myself when I'm feeling hopeless. I hope you can get something out of it.
You are my "family" I spend sooo much time with you all ;-)
not2fun, wow, glad you have your sister to talk with about it. Have you recommended this site to any of them? I sent one thread to my husband and of course he said "it's different, everyone handles things differently", yeah, yeah, at least he read it. (((((not2fun)))))
tmts, I don't know what to do with son15, I don't want him to stop growing emotionally. WH is around a ton and wants to be around for the kids, so maybe son won't feel like he needs to be the man of the house, I'll do some research though, because of course I can take care of myself, WH thinks he can take care of himself, but the kids definately still need someone to look out for their best interests.
Thanks Oz I'll take your tip into consideration ;-)
Not going to sit here for hours at a time like I have been. I'm going to "be busy" making home and myself a place where WH would decide he would rather be than with OW who says "don't touch the washing machine". LOL
I think I'm going to get busy too. I'm doing the same thing.
As for your son. I my case I started wanting to take care of everything. If you see him doing more chores, being more supportive of you and siblings, doesn't let his emotions out, it could be a sign.
But that was my reaction to it, his will be different.
tmts forgot to answer question re: a place for WH to stay... yes finances are a huge reason, if we go the bankruptcy route he'd be able to get a place, but other than that nope, can't afford it, the apartment he was going to possibly stay in his BF who left yesterday will most likely get.
haven't gotten up from puter yet cause I had a lap full a cat ;-) she got up so now I will.
nope not jokin'. The other day he was over getting a change of clothes and hoppin' in the shower. He said I need a basket for my laundry, I'll do it, I don't expect you to continue doing it for me. I said (not in a mean way or anything,) "Why don't you do it over there?" He said "Because I'm not aloud to touch the washing machine." I said "What?" he said, "That's what she said, she does all the laundry." I thought well good for her, she's trying to impress him or something stupid, I'm sure it won't last. Not like he's done much of any housework around here anyway. And I didn't get him a basket, I put his stuff with the rest of the families and continue to do it. Slowly though most of his clothes are making it over there... except for my favorite shirt of his, his favorite pair of pants (they go together) and his nice slippers. I hid them!!! ;-)
LOL, that too much. See that would be a deal breaker for me. I like doing laundry, I like it even more when one of the machines breaks down and I get to tear it apart. It took my WW a while to "let" me do the laundry, like its rocket science or something. I finally said to her one day "you know when I read the tag, it gives me a pretty good idea what pile it goes in." ever since I've been doing laundry. She still doesn't like the way I fold, but that's just too bad.
Has the cat hijacked your lap again? I've got one on my lap and the kitten is flopping around on the keyboard and pawing at the screen. It's taken me 10 mins to put up this post. Stupid cats got to love them.
I get concerned about you not speaking out about the affair not being OK with you.
It's not OK for him to be open about saying what it's like with her.
It's OK to openly express your sadness and hurt about what he is doing.
It is ENABLING if you don't speak out and let him know that you want him home with you and that you want him to end his affair. That is AN ESSENTIAL PART of PLAN A. Pep called it THE STICK of PLAN A.
I'm having a rough time. I don't know what to do with myself and the weekends are looooong days when WH isn't here. Haven't talked to him for over 24 hours. He took one child to basketball this a.m. But hasn't been in contact with anyone else ;-( I'm bored.
Mimi I do express my desire for him to stop doing what he is doing and to come home. I even said exactly how I felt about her and that I don't want him bringing her anywhere around my kids. He agrees to not do that. He didn't get mad when I said what I did he just looked at me with sad eyes.
about an hour from the coast. so just about coast to coast.
I've seen lots of suffering on his part. I believe my Plan A has had some effect on him already. That and the fact that the kids are not happy with him and he sees that.
But then he's brought it on himself, he contacted NONE of us today. DD had a basketball game and I thought for sure he'd call her to see how she did, but he didn't. I was kind of going to be mad if he contacted her and not the other two, because for some reason he seems to connect with her more, I hate that!!
Still can't believe I did do anything today, just pity party. I did search and found that a step aerobics class will be starting in the area soon, I may look into that. And I must!!!! sign son up for drivers ed... 4weeks and he'll be 16!
Guilt, guilt, guilt... the children are at the age where telling them they it wasn't anything they did just doesn’t cut it. I know my WW actually told me that it would be hard on them, but they would adjust. She never figured on my ODD telling her exactly what she think about it. At 13 she knows what and affair is, understands that adultery is wrong and doesn't accept her reasons for leaving. She actually told her that she's running away from her problems.
What's this may look into it? Go for it, it will make you feel better and take your mind off things.
no, I work during the week, but I've basically become a "homebody" and I think that's one of the things that bothers WH. I hate to go out and spend money and can't seem to figure anything else to go out and "do"... so today I just sat around, he would have been bored out of his mind, guess what I was!
Ok people!! ;-) Help me out here! Kids are teens so it isn't really cool to hang out with mom. But we really do need to get out of the house on the weekends and do something together, I can see that they'll sit in front of the tv, computers, video games and I'm sure that will lead to depression! What are some things we can do that don't cost much if anything? I'm drawing blanks because I myself am in such a funk!
First thing that comes to mind is cards and board games. Video games can be work too if you find something you can play together or take turns at. We play pinball and guitar hero. Bowling or golf game we work too because you could all get involved.
What are some things we can do that don't cost much if anything?
Camping Hiking Picnicking Frisbee throwing at a local park/open area. Roller skating Community Theater Community Choir/Music Pursue family history - recording family history & stories from grandparents, aunts/uncles, or trace your family tree. Research local museums, parks, historical attractions. Have an all-day movie day at home and invite teens' friends (supply popcorn, sodas, cookies, etc.) Put together a 3-D puzzle Family board game night
Volunteering: Food Bank Soup Kitchen Habitat for Humanity Big Brother/Big Sister "Adopt" an lonely elder Adopt a mile
Maybe that can get some thoughts and ideas flowing.
Nope didn't get out today... too cold! I hate it when it stays below freezing!!!!
Better spirits though... WH came over for a few hours. We discussed bills again. I showed him what we could do to avoid bankruptcy. He liked what I came up with and even had a couple ideas of his own to add.
While here he received an email from his mom. She didn't "sound" too happy with him, I hope it sinks in. He didn't want to stay for dinner but said he'd probably be by a couple times this week to cook and eat with us. ;-) And he'll be picking up the kids after various activities as usual.
Oh and the kids HATE board games!! I'm hoping to find stuff to do away from the house. We used to do kickboxing that was fun, but it costs too much. I'll take them skating soon.
Turn On that Charm!!! I don't know about you but sometimes I think it wold be easier if they just hatted us and told us where to go. This being all guilty and nice drive me crazy sometimes.
"This being all quilty and nice drive me crazy sometimes"
Thats what I don't understand, I am on the other side of the fence...I am the WS. I don't understand why you guys have to do all the work. Isn't our job(WS) to be fixing the marriage?? we are the ones who messed up.
drives me crazy too... but I guess I'm thinking whatever happens between the two of us, we've still got three great kids to finish raising and the better we get along the better it is for the kids. They're all pi**ed at him but won't say anything... guess they really take after us.
our WS aren't sure what they want right now, so we are doing our very best to "win" them back... it's a tough fight when you are up agains their fantasies.
That’s what I don't understand, I am on the other side of the fence...I am the WS. I don't understand why you guys have to do all the work. Isn't our job(WS) to be fixing the marriage?? we are the ones who messed up.
Difference is Shannon is that just the fact that you are here means that the fog is lifting. Would you have thought the same way a couple of months ago? Congrats on being here, it means allot to us BS to see that WSs can come out of it. It gives up hope.
Thanks TMTS, I do understand the difference. The fog has been lifted for about 4 months now since I told my husband about the A. but no I couldn't see being happy with him before that so I do understand. Let me tell you though, a A is very addicting and I will pray for your both and your healing.
ugh!! see we're chatting just fine now online everything is A ok... sometimes I think I can live like this, with him being just my friend, visiting sometimes, but then other times I'm soooo sad and want him to come home... I hate this stupid roller coaster!!
I can't even imagine what you are going through. I am sorry. All I have to say is it is a complete selfish act and I have learned more from this experience then I have anything else in my life.
I missed you hon....and I see you have met my sister....lol. and you can read about the "good ol' time I had on the Rollercoaster Ride" this weekend. I just want to drop in and say hey, I won't be on too much this week, and hubby took my power cord for a business trip. He asked nicely, actually almost took it back after he said it, but I felt like it would be a nice thing to do. Don't know where that fall under any EN, but oh well. Plus, it is my DD bday tomorrow....my baby is 14. So I will be getting ready for that.
Keep up the good work, and hey, my shoulder is available when you need it.
no, I work during the week, but I've basically become a "homebody" and I think that's one of the things that bothers WH. I hate to go out and spend money and can't seem to figure anything else to go out and "do"... so today I just sat around, he would have been bored out of his mind, guess what I was!
I think that's one of the reasons for his affair; he got bored with you. (I know it might not come out right, but that's probably the truth).
You said you work part time during the week and money has always been an issue. So, have you ever considered getting a new/better job? Have you ever just try to get interviews and see what happened? Have you just go check out job posting websites such as Monters.com and apply to some jobs and see if anything will happened? What do you got to lose?
I think getting a new job, having new co-workers, and having a new outlook will change you dramatically. We, as people, somtimes, have a tendency to resist changes and just be the comfortable/lazy old ways. But change can be very good sometimes and maybe even essential.
Just write down your goals for change and do something different every other day. Pad yourself on your back if you do something different 3 times a week. Doesn't have to be big, just something you would not normally do. By having some type of change, it will gradually transform you into someone new and improved. You will become much more "attractive" to anyone including your kids and even yourself.
I think that's one of the reasons for his affair; he got bored with you. (I know it might not come out right, but that's probably the truth).
So, have you ever considered getting a new/better job?
We, as people, somtimes, have a tendency to resist changes and just be the comfortable/lazy old ways. But change can be very good sometimes and maybe even essential.
BA
Hey BA...how about if you take your own advice? Or are YOU content with being a single, 20-yr-old sitting around offering advice on a forum that exists for married pepole facing infidelity? Enough about YOU!
Your H's affair had everything to do with him not communicating his needs to you b4 he chose to devastate you and your M. Plan A and B are about making yourself a better, stronger person for YOU, thus (hopefully) making you more attractive to your WH. I hope you can find the strength now to take care of yourself and lift yourself up after this terrible tragedy. You are stronger than you think!
I don't remember mentioning that I work part time. I don't! I have a WONDERFUL full time job. In fact I was working full time and going to school full time while my children were in elementary school. I was lucky to take them to some of my classes. I earned my BS (and my DH is proud of me for that and reminds me of it when I am down on myself). I started my new WONDERFUL job at the beginning of Dec. WH was already on his way out! I do need to strive to make myself stronger and happier formyself and the kids... and if he notices, well good, if not his loss!
Good evening TMTS, Skinsgal, Not2fun, reading your threads... just don't always have something to contribute ;-)
He was board with you. Ha. Buddy would have a more productive life if he got out to meet someone to have a little SF with. But if he'd ratther hang out with us and our middle aged pity party, then I hope he learns something.
How you doing tonight? I'm in a much better space. Kum-ba-yha baby kum-ba-yha!
lol up a bit then down a bit... I'm trying to join the other girls on their GODDESS thread, but I don't know, don't feel like I fit in, but I might sneak in the back and lurk there ;-)
Saw WH and my MIL, we sat together at DDs basketball game. Didn't have a lot to talk about. I cringe when he hollers for the refs to make a call or yells at DD to grab the ball or whatever, he is kind of tempermental when it comes to that.
He isn't seeming too happy these days!! ;-) yeah for me, too bad for OW, she must not be doing to well HAHAHAH!
Hope your curling and pool goes over well. Best wishes to you.
lol up a bit then down a bit... I'm trying to join the other girls on their GODDESS thread, but I don't know, don't feel like I fit in, but I might sneak in the back and lurk there ;-)
SS, I just want to add that although Plan A is awesome, it WILL take a lot out of you,so be prepared for that.
Plan A'ers are some of the most resolute people. You have to be stable in the face of knowing your WH is seeing the OW. You have to smile when you want to cry. It is hard, but concentrate on improvements to you and remember it will make you a better person. You will get his attention with a positive attitude and although it seems like you are trying to "win" him back, you are not in competition. YOU are his wife. Someone said it on hear pretty well....you deserve a FEAST not the crumbs he doles out.
Read up on some other posts to implement a solid Plan A and that will help. Harley doesn't recommend Plan A for too long for women as it can have negative emotional and physical impacts. Especially with a cake eater. Don't you wish you could lift the fog?!
I am currently getting ready to go into Plan B....just waiting for heart and head to sync, but I am getting closer.
Good luck to you! Journaling helps! Praying helps!
Well I think my Plan A is doing what it's supposed to be doing. And my backing off and "being still" as well. I didn't contact WH yesterday or last night. I sooooo wanted too, but resisted.
School was cancelled today, he showed up this a.m. crawled in bed and cuddled we did a lot of chatting. No relationship chatting though, and I didn't ask ANY of those questions that he could lie about or avoid or I'd hate the answer to.
I showered, got ready for work, and left without saying anything. He called me when I got to work and said he hoped he didn't upset me, I said nope, just needed to get to work. We talked for 11 minutes!!!!! on the phone!! That is the longest phone conversation we've had in months!! And none of it was relationship stuff. I'm making positive changes in my attitude and it's showing ;-)
Good for you SS! I have something for you that Mrs. W dug up from the MB archives. It is a post by "2ofakind" from 2003...I think you'll like it...
THREAD ON "FINDING YOURSELF" written by 2ofakind in 2003...
We need to be apart so I can find myself" What a cute little euphamism that is, finding yourself or finding out who you are.
Many of my dear friends here know that I am a big believer in using a gentle touch on those unfortunate souls who either "Need to find themselves" or "Need to find out who they are" before they can come home to their families.
So, as a public service to these unfortunate souls I have composed "Finding yourself for Dummies"
First, finding yourself... 1. If you can't find yourself, try looking in your shoes. More than likely you will be there.
2. Do not bother looking where your children or responsibilities are, though that would be a reasonable place to look we know you are not there.
3. If need be, go to the police station and give the desk sargeant an 8x10 or you and ask to have an APB put out since you can't find yourself.
4. Ask your child to point to their mom/dad, if you are not sure which one you are reach into your pants and feel around, if there is a penis there, you are dad, if not, you're probably mom.
Now one of these tried and true methods ought to help you find yourself, but it probable dark so let's help you see better. Reach behind you, palms facing you, arms hanging down and grab. That's your butt. Now reach in that and look for a large round object, that is your head. Now, with both hands pull as hard as you can. You are now performing recto-cranial extraction.
Ok, now you have found yourself. We are making progress here! Now we need to find out "who you are". This is not so hard. Look around the house - if there are one or more particularly short little people ask one of them, they are called children, they probably know the answer as it was one of their first two or 3 words. Not able to talk yet? No sweat.
Look for the full grown person with the red eyes who looks like they haven't slept in a while - they probably know. They aren't home??? let's keep looking.
Try looking in a desk or filing cabinet. Look for folders named "mortgage", "Utilities", Or "Marriage license". There will probably be two names here - you are one of those. So we have found you and narrowed it down to two people.
Now look and see if there is a wallet around. Remember that? Little pocket sized leather folding thingy. Look for something that says drivers license. There should be a name. Now find a mirror (Glass thingy in the bathroom), look at the picture on the driver's license and the face in the mirror, if they match, the name on the license is WHO YOU ARE. If they don't, check those papers you found - you are the other name.
Now that you have found yourself and know who you are go find the other full grown person in the house and introduce yourself. Start out with "I'm sorry I could not find myself or figure out who I was, I know now"
Next, knock off the drama, quit being melodramatic and start being mom/dad, husband/wife like you are supposed to and quit with the childish theatrics because the final piece is WHERE YOU ARE. This is called the real world where people depend on you to act like a grownup and keep track of details like who and where you are. The little people in the house are kinda sorta counting on you too.
If this doesn't work and you have to take a journey to answer these questions there is a chance that when you find yourself you will be alone, without a house, without a spouse, without children who love you and without a penny. That is how my XW found herself a year later. Trust me, my plan outlined earlier is better.
Ahhhhhhhhh.... okay, I needed to get that out since the day my XW took off into the sunset and another post yanked that rant out of me. If your WS tells you that they need time away to find themselves and discover who they are print it out for them. If they can't follow the directions make sure the door doesn't hit them in the rear and injure their head. There is a reason I harp on not putting up with crap from WS's who like to play little selfish games - if you indulge them they keep playing them.
I'm better now. Thanks for letting me take a good long vent... maybe I am finally getting my old, dead, buried, BS issues from the days before I met J out of my system.
---------
Thought it might give you a little "pick-me-up" today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Most of the post had me laughing almost out loud, I'm a very quiet person. ;-)
But this part...?
Quote
There is a reason I harp on not putting up with crap from WS's who like to play little selfish games - if you indulge them they keep playing them.
In letting WH come around when he choses, is "putting up" with his crap, but I feel it would be major LB if I told him not to come around. I guess I need a huge lesson on boundry setting... anyone up to being a teacher??
I absolutely love that post.... it had me cracking up..... i wish i could give it to my WH to read cause that is where he is right now.... he is lost and wants to find himself
You're right about reading all of Mark's Musing thread for indepth help. I'm hoping that all the links work for you. If not, please put a shout out to Mark.
Ace (or Asa who is also trying-to-be-a-Goddesss, too)
Sounds like you did a good job this morning...kudos to you. I like what you said about boundaries...because honey, I am trying to set mine as well. Its just kind of hard when you don't want to LB them at the same time.
Anyway, Just wanted to put in a shout out to you, let you know I am still alive and kicking....
Should be an interesting weekend, as WS doesn't have the kiddies, and I WILL be a good spouse and give him his "space" so he can "find himself"....lol
Seriously, I am going to let him do all the calling....keep me accountable girlie....
HE's SUCH a JERK!!! Ok from Day one he's said his kids are #1. Well do you think he's even talked to his kids NO!! And it's football playoffs!! How SAD for son15 to be watching them for the first time without dad! ERRR it aggravates me! What a JERK!!!!
I haven't called him. He did send an email yesterday blah, blah, blah and I'm going to be secluding myself for football this weekend. Well JERK football isn't on until the afternoon and your kids are here! Those kids that your spending time with aren't YOURS! I'd like to yell at him!! But never would!
OK stepping away from the computer because he's giving me a headache!!!!
Went to see The Bucket List with a friend tonight, it was quite good!!!
That is fairly typical. He his number one priority is HIMSELF.
Fix some snacks and try to enjoy the games. I HATE football but always look back to all the good food and family togetherness that went along with football.
Well JERK football isn't on until the afternoon and your kids are here! Those kids that your spending time with aren't YOURS! I'd like to yell at him!!
I understand that you're on plan A, but don't you think you need to stand up for yourself, if not, at least for your kids just a little bit? Can't you communicate the above message to him in a non-angry manner...a manner that would reveal the dissapointment in your kids and at the same time the dissapointment and hurt he caused you?
You alright? It amazes me how they can say things like that and not show it. We were watching our neighbors DS for a while this afternoon, and when she picked him up she was telling us how he's a F of convenience. He comes a sees his son or takes him when it's convenient for him. Of course she talks about this in front of WW in a way to tell her "look at the kind of father your kids have you stupid B#%#@, and you're leaving him"
Remember that as long as he's in the fog it's going to be all about him. It's sick, but that what it is.
How is your DS doing, this has to be hurting him if they use to do this together.
And yes, vent away! Best to do it here than in front of him.
Don't know if you remember I talked about WH's BF who's wife gave him the boot just after Christmas, and WH helped him move and I'd hoped WH would feel something of my pain through his friends, well guess it didn't work. But I spent time with the friend yesterday and it was nice to talk to him about what we are going through with our spouses. He's more angry than anything now.
Anyway... nother long day. No school today, roads were bad, way too much snow. Friend plowed us out because WH was not around.
He's coming over to cook tomorrow evening. It's the only time the kids are really near him, other times he comes around and they head to their rooms ;-) His own fault.
I had a very nice weekend. And I'm questioning like Not2Fun-whether I want him back now or not... that darn roller coaster ;-)
OH TMTS he did mention football next weekend with son, they'll do their typical hotwings and potato skins. So that's good for son.
Missed you this weekend. Doesn't this just suck??? I mean I am not depressed at all by these thoughts, I actually feel a little liberated. Well, maybe this just means we are closer to getting to Plan B. Of course, like I said, I am afraid (yes that darn fear again) that once I do that, and he does come around, it may be too late....oh well, like my DD14 counselor said "Don't borrow worry".....
my IC said that too! That and she said something about living in today and not tomorrow! Those were probably the only two worthwhile things I got from her. she thinks I speak "psycho-babble" and so she talks over me! I am educated... just not with a masters degree like her.
UGH... a CC came in the mail for WH today! I'd like to destroy it! Wonder what he's got planned for it. He said he never wanted to get another one and then there he goes, applying for yet another one! aaahahahahah
I applied for a CC today. I don't have any that are in my own name. Besically, I got it for emergencies and for snooping purposes. Need money to snoop, don;t want WS to know...hehehe...not putting that in my thread in case he lurks in here. I don;t think he does though because he would blow up if he did.
I'm glad I went to bed early last night because by the sounds of you two being a man around here would not have been good. LOL
Ok all kidding aside, I think the three of us are suffering from the same ailment...impatience. We want something to happen but it isn't and it's driving us crazy. Hence the questions about WHY. The first time I called Jennifer, this s the first thing she had me write down, WHY I am doing this. When ever I get these thoughts a read the list again. Yes one day I will read the list and say that these reasons no longer apply, but that's down the road.
Soon - In terms of if the friends move affected him or not, read the post RIM made to me yesterday regarding WS's poker face. It might help.
Not - I'm glad he hasn't completely forgotten he has children.
That one really gets me going...this idea that children adjust easily to this. I proof that this is not the case and it just really riles me up.
I agree with you TMTS...I definately am suffering from impatience....
and don't worry Serenity, only spending when needed...besides, I am NOT the spender in this family...there's a Porsche in the garage that proves it....
Hey all. Guess what I got this evening? A kiss on the forehead!!! That was the first since I don't know when... I'm thinking it was for the attention he hasn't been getting. His mom at one point had even suggested I ignore him and see if he comes around. Well ignoring really isn't a plan A thing. So anyway, he came over to cook dinner tonight. A wasn't in the friendliest of moods, so didn't look directly at him, but was very cordial. After dinner DD14 started wrestling around with me. She thinks because she is now and inch taller and out weighs me by about 15lbs that she can "beat me up" HA I showed her. We had fun. WH got the camera and started taking pics. We then downloaded them on the computer and he said you two look more like sisters ;-) I went about evening things and he prepared to leave, he came to me, gave me a hug AND a kiss on the forehead, it was nice ;-) I have not been pursuing, calling, emailing... just being "still!" May be making a difference, may not, time may tell.
TMTS... heading over to read the post regarding poker face right now. Don't worry there would not have been any male bashing had you been around last night
n2f gave him the CC this evening asked what he was going to use it for, he said "I don't plan on using it right now"... bad me I said "you didn't plan on living with someone either." Shame on me. I didn't say it in a mean way and from the looks of it he took it well, though he didn't respond.
tmts-well, it's hard to plan A him, when I'm wondering if I want him back ;-) so I'm holding my tongue a lot, and being still... I'm sure this "phase" will pass and I'll be back to misery, wanting him to come home now... etc.
he goes back to work tomorrow night, so we'll be on the computer doing a lot of chatting (maybe, if I feel like it).
Sure, you're just showing him a little more of the stick part of plan A. I know what you mean though, I have times where I want to pack her luggage and put it on the front porch... you want freedom, well there you go honey. LOL
yep, today/night we can say we'll be fine... but YOU just remember that when the other feeling starts creeping in. ugh, ick!
So I rubbed shoulders with the Attorney General recently! My new job (started in Dec) has me out meeting new/important people. I LOVE what I do... and it gives me stuff to talk about ;-) when he does decide to come around an engage in conversation.
LOL, actually not too tired ;-) though I didn't sleep well, which is unusual for me... oh I know why I napped early evening! Darn it I have to remember to eat during the day so I have energy to make it through a whole day!
Ok He was almost super dad... not quite, but he was pretty darn close. Now he sees them a couple minutes here, a couple minutes there. He's not a BAD guy so I want them to be with him!!! Obviously NOOOOOO where around her and he knows that! "they" work different schedules, so it isn't like he's spending time with her when he can be with them. I can't get a feel on whether they even care or not! I've offered to leave the house so he can spend time here, he says they just go on the computers and don't care anyway, well boo hoo!! Do something with them!!! I know kids need their dad, especially if they are so used to him being there all the time!
I felt like I should bring it up to him, but I can think of any way to approach the subject that wouldn't cause him stress=LB... I'm thinking he feels guilty and has no idea what to tell them about what he's doing so he's just avoiding them... but geesh!!! I'm MAD at him for leaving them!!
he called while I was cooking, mentioned he may stop by later to talk... I wanted to bring up the fact that he's missing out on the kids... well he didn't show up, which is kind of good, because I hadn't gotten any wisdom yet ;-)
I will see him tomorrow evening though... any advice?? (to the above post)
Oh man, this one is tough. You know how I dealt with it and it was not good. I think it may be too soon to expect the kids to even want to have anything to do with him. I didn't want to see my F for months, and I really did care if I did see him or not. Be the great mom you are!
Also keep in mind that until he takes responsibility for his actions and makes efforts to connect there will not be much you will be able to do. The problem he has is that no matter what he tries to tell them they will only understand that he abandoned them. If he does not come back it may take years for them to have a semi normal relationship, if they even can. (I know others don't necessarily agree, but I speak from experience on this one). Even if he does it will not be easy. Bottom line Soon is that you can only be there for them, and stay connected to them. Don't leave them out of the loop because if they don't know the truth of what is happening they will make their own conclusions which will involve blaming themselves. Don’t shut them out.
My prayers are with you and them!! ((((((((SOON))))))))) Ok you got me crying now...what I just out down brought back my feelings at the time. See 25 years and I still hurt. WSs dont get it. If you can ever get him to read anything here, make sure he reads this one.
sorry to bring up old hurts! ugh... I just wish the'd get a clue and quit being so selfish!!
Thanks for responding, I guess I'm rushing things... I know I couldn't go very long without seeing and talking to the kids, I don't know how he justifies it to himself.
With the kids it's not about the selfishness it's all about the guilt. He knows that he can't rationalize this with them, kids don't take to fog babble very well and they tend to see right through it, and call them on it. So the first time he does try, be ready because depending on your kids it may get pretty ugly. But you know what don't try to stop them from telling him exactly hoe they feel, it is not your job to rescue him from them, he has allot to answer for and needs to man up to that.
In terms of justifying it to himself, he can't, but he is afraid to say anything about why he left. They think that the kids will adjust and be ok. Well I'll tell you they adjust, but they are not ok, they carry that hurt with them. This is the person that has been their mentor and protector for all their lives, now they feel like they are not good enough, they are going through every time they mad daddy mad and wonder if that is why. Yes it is not rational, but that’s how kids think.
If you can get them into counseling down the road it may help. But right now it's too early, they won't hear a thing they say because there is just too much pain and anger.
They will get closer to you, and will try to protect you (Especially your son). He's the one I'm most worried about because he is now the man of the house and the only man in the house. Keep a close eye on him.
Long time no see girl...where you been hiding yourself?? Do you not love us any more???
Seriously, I wish I had advice concerning him and the kids, but alas I don't. Heck, I am having the same issue. When he left, he told the kids any time they need him all the have to do is call. He would answer day or night. Well, so far he has only answered once..and hasn't answered 10 times. And he hes cancelled plans too. I don't know what to do about this either. I can say it is a MAJOR LB for me when he does this crap.
I told my dad about this and he said that WS will wake up one day and see the damage he has done. I don't think there is much to be done about this. I know at this point if I were to say anything it would come out bad,,,LB's big time. I think this situation falls under the "we can't educate them" senerio. It just sucks, because it is one way to treat us like this, but the kids???? Not to mention our mother bear insticts kick in and we want to protect them.
Anyway, glad to see you are doing well and don;t be such a stranger....lol
((not)) It breaks my heart that WS is going to realized when it's too late, that it's too late! I'm not one to rub in the whole I told you so crap, but I'll be thinking it!! What a shame!
I'm hoping some WSs and Vets will answer my kid questions as well.
Hey ((TMTS)) thank you so much for your "been there" input, I am watching/listening to son closely.
I'm not posting as much anymore because I realized that "this mess" has obsessed me. I'm backing off and putting energy into brighter activities. That and I'm working 40hrs aweek, which is real new to me, but I love my position. I miss my messageboard pals though.
Serenity, I'm so sorry their dad is acting like this. It just breaks your heart I know, but at their age he's right, they want to be on the computer. As is the case with my 16yr old!
Have you asked them how they feel about it when their Dad blows them off? Maybe talking to you will help sort out any of their emotions and you can find out what THEY need from HIM.
True, you can't control your WH on this issue, but I think it is worth bringing up. Have you asked him why he doesn't try harder? Giving up with children is NOT an option in my book. He is the adult and should act like one, not put it off on the kids as their problem. Ugh, I just hate hearing what sounds like to me as a cop-out so he won't feel any guilt.
I hear ya about getting a break from the board. It's great to have when you need it, but shouldn't be too consuming. ~Free
I agree with a lot of what TMTS is telling you here.
When my husband was gone, I knew that one of the biggest consequences to his A would be the devastation of his relationship with them. He had been a good dad, a loving dad, a fun dad, an involved dad, and a disciplinarian. He was truly needed in our home.
BUT because he CHOSE to leave, he was also choosing to become a part-time dad. He was choosing to not have a say in their day-to-day lives. He was choosing to not be here for them. It really didn't matter what I told my kids (ages 17, 13, 11, 9, and 7), they knew the truth. Dad didn't want to be there with them. OUCH! No matter how many times you tell them it has nothing to do with them, the truth is...IT DOES! It has everything to do with them, and they know it. No, they didn't cause it. It has everything to do with them because it affects every part of their lives now and forever. And they know that their daddy has a CHOICE and is CHOOSING to NOT be there. There's no way to fix that hurt for them, as much as we want to. And if we try, we usually prevent WS from having consequences that are CRITICAL to becoming defogged.
As much as we want to take our children's hurt away, it isn't our job. It's the job of the WS to heal that relationship, but first they have to SEE the damage to know how much work they have.
My advice to you, which is the same advice I followed:
Tell them the truth (if you haven't already). I told my kids that their dad has a girlfriend and has chosen to leave his family. I told them that daddy loved them, but that he was entrenched in sin and blinded by it, that he could not yet see the devastation he was causing to us. I told them we needed to pray for daddy that we will really SEE. I alos told them that I loved daddy, and IF he would become willing to do what is necessary, I want him to come home.
I didn't try to mend their relationship, make things seem less horrible than they were, or prod him to be with them more. I was there to hold them when they cried, to reassure them that no matter what, we would feel joy again one day, to rise up and be strong so they didn't worry about me, and to PLAY with them and hang out with them. You are responsible for your relationship with your children. He is responsible for his relationship with them.
One more thing, I felt THE MOST IMPORTANT task I had regarding my children was teaching them that sin is sin, no matter who commits it. Just because it's their dad making these bad choices, doesn't mean that it is now OK to leave your family, have an OW, and divorce. We had been diligent in teaching our children about Godly marriage, and his actions were in total contradiction to what they had known their whole lives. I didn't want the understanding of this TRUTH to waiver because he was lost in sin.
I'm not sure of your religious beliefs, but I'm sure mine are apparent. Nonetheless, even if you are not a Christian, wrong is still wrong, even if it's daddy doing it.
Be open and honest and love them through their pain.
So this is what I said, "You've always been a really good dad to the kids. They've never known you NOT to be around. We've almost always had supper together. I'm concerned about the relationship you and the kids have and will have. It makes me sad, I know it's 'your' relationship with them, but I love them so that's why it concerns me." He said, "At this age it should concern you, I know the few minutes I spend in the car with them isn't enough. I know I haven't spent enough time with them, I am trying to talk to each of them every day now and I'm going to try to spend more time with them."
It turned out to be a VERY good conversation. I was so worried that he'd take it the wrong way! WHEW!!
Now 14yr girl and I were talking and I said you all should show some sort of emotion and don't be afraid to. If you are mad say so, if you are sad say so, and let us know WHY? as a matter of fact let us know when you are happy and grateful and what it is you are grateful for." She practically yelled at me as she was getting out of the vehicle, "I'm grateful that you still love us." I said "hey, he still loves you, I'm not sticking up for him, but I know he does." She then says, "Well I'm grateful you still show us you love us." AMAZING!!! She was grouping herself with her siblings!! I loved it. The I said the reason he doesn't talk to you about it is that he's probably pretty embarassed, she said "Well that's his fault he shouldn't be with someone who is so 'fugly'," She was on the way upstairs now, I yelled for her to come back, I said "so that means if she was beautiful it would be ok?" She said no, I said "he's embarassed because he knows that what he's doing isn't right, and he's not sure how to talk to you."
I'd love to think that they're going to be OK, but there's so much "proof," "studies" out there that says different. He of course says he could probably find just about as much information to counter the negatives, but I haven't found anything yet, I might ask him to see what he can come up with.
She could be my brother and I. You handled that real well IMO. This is really what will help them most, being there for them to talk to and vent. Trying to get this fixed with them until they are adults will be tough. But stay close to them and encourage IC as soon as they feel they could use it, mention it as they grow up but don't push it. Don't let them do the same mistake I did and not deal with it because until they do the pain will stay.
I love how you explained to your children w/out being disrespectful to their dad...something that takes WORK.
I've had these same discussions. My DD15 is on it. DS13 is still having trouble wrapping his emotions around it so he bottles it up.
You are doing the right thing! If WH doesn't spend the time investing in their upbringing and growth, you NEED to. I'm doing the same thing, even though I'm only home on the weekends. I can fill up their Love Banks in a few short hours, compared to her measly deposits during the whole week... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Again, cheers to YOU, SS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Be careful that you do not make excuses for him. Your children need to know that there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for your husband leaving his family....leaving them. NONE!
You can reflect their feelings back to them. I did that so I wouldn't say "the wrong thing".
"I understand you feel angry/hurt/sad."
"I can see that you are /hurting/angry/sad."
There is nothing you can say to CONVINCE them that their daddy still loves them. His actions speak louder than your words. And the only action that PROVES his love for them is giving up OW and coming home where THEY INSTICTIVELY KNOW he belongs.
I did tell my kids, "Daddy still loves you." But their responses made me realize that those words meant nothing anymore and that saying them usually just told them their feelings about the situation weren't right. Then I started telling them, "Daddy loves you the best he can right now. It doesn't feel like love because he is blinded by his sin, but he DOES love you."
I also told them that one day Daddy would be devastated and horrified about what he has done. That let them know that the man they know and love is in there somewhere, but that the man the see right now really isn't the same person. They already knew he was a different person. I just affirmed what they already felt in their hearts. They KNEW it COULDN'T be the same man.
Talk about sin, talk about right and wrong choices and consequences affecting other people sometimes in huge ways. Take this as an opportunity to help your children form a conscience.
Bottom line for them, "No matter how much we love Daddy and Daddy loves us, his actions are wrong and are hurting us terribly."
You can't make this all "feel good". Nothing about it feels good. Their lives, their family, everything they have known and believed are crashing down around them.
How would you feel if someone told you, "Your husband still loves you." Wouldn't that sound INSANE. Why? Because his actions prove otherwise. It really is the same for them. He is abandoning them, whether he chats with them everyday or not. He is relinquishing his place in the home and therefore, giving up his place of influence with them
What SMB explains I experienced first hand and she could not heve explianed it better. His actions will hurt them for a long time, just be there to comfort them.
I don't get on much but thought I'd add my .02 worth.
a theme I haven't seen on these pages in a while is hte addictive nature of A's. "Love is a Drug" is true.
Think of the WS as a drug addict and the OP is their drug of choice right now. They know it's not good for them, they know they are destroying their lives, but they will lie to themselves and everyone around them to keep getting the fix. An addict thinks only of themselves, their own pain, their own guilt, their own fix. They will alienate themselves from people they feel guilty around and surround themselves with people who allow them to continue their lifestyle. They will burn up their money, reputation, health, etc. to keep their drug.
Protect yourself, your health, your emotions, your finances from them. They are incapable of honest emotions right now. Do not trust their words or actions.
When faced with a an addict, it is important to set firm boundaries so they don't start sucking you in and taking from you...
Eventually this is what Plan B will do for you, protect you from their addiction and allow them to get to the point where they've had enough...
As far as the kids. You told your DD it was OK to feel what she feels about her dad, then you argued with her and made excuses for him...and she wasn't even talking about him...leave him out of the conversation unless they ask direct questions of you about him. Do NOT try to defend him to your children, they are too smart for that.
So I avoided what could have been MAJOR LBs today... to start off as I'm taking the kids to school, "warthog" drives by dropping her two off at daycare! I know where the daycare is, really close to our home, but I've never actually seen her there, so this SUCKED!!!!
Had a meeting in another town, and knew that there was a church with "perpetual" Eucharistic Adoration, well I pull into the parking lot and called to see if I could go in, the woman said no ;-(
He was getting some groceries with the kids and we were chatting on the phone (when I was coming back from above mentioned town) and I'm sure something he said makes something else he said a couple weeks ago a MAJOR lie! But I avoided calling him on it, for now.
Then on the way home I went by the restraunt that WH took whatsherface to just before Christmas, I knew the name of the place from the credit card bill, I just didn't know where it was or anything, it looked REALLY nice ;-(
So needless to say today SUCKED! but I was able to cool down, chill out before I saw him for daughters game. He knows nothing of the horrible day I had. (he did surprise me by buying a bottle of wine for me while he was getting groceries.)
This is his weekend to work, so I probably won't see him at all ;-(
Sorry you had a tough day. Hey do youself a favour and keep away from these places, you only cause yourself more pain. I know it's hard, so when you get the urge come here and vent about it.
ugghhhh instead of TGIF, it's TGIM! 'Cause I'm so busy at work I don't have a lot of time to obsess. I can't wait until tomorrow morning! How are people patient enough to outwait their WSs sometimes for more than a year??? jeesh! This is so frustrating!!!
Amen, SS.....I'm only 6 1/2 weeks in and it seems like I'll never make it!!! Keep believing.....best of luck to you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
well i got a voice mail from him today to say he finished our taxes.
tm'd him once and he responded appropriately.
from what I understand he isn't spending superbowl with DS! That pisses me off!!!
middle DD won't tell him how she really feels because (I think) she's afraid he'll take away her cell phone! I hate that!!! Because boy is she mad at him!!
tomorrow afternoon we're going together to middleDD game out of town, that'll be a bit different.
I hate letting him think I'm "ok" when really I'm an obsessed, messageboard reading, internet searching, book reading freak, loosing her mind over him!!! I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to act around him.
I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to act around him.
Calm, collected, sure of yourself, and mildly aloof in a flirty/could care less way. Another words, you can be happy with him or without him. Because you can.
ugh, but (whiney voice here) haven't you heard people say well "if he/she had fought for me"... I wonder if he thinks I'm fine with him being gone. How do I let him know I'm not, without seeming pathetic at the same time?
haven't you heard people say well "if he/she had fought for me".
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. But if I heard someone try to tell me I wasn't worth much because some cheater left me, I'd be upset.
If someone doesn't fight for you, it just may mean that THEY are not necessarily the sharpest crayon in the box.
And I personally believe that the ones who have the affairs are not as mature as others.
Waywards don't fight to get off the drug. You have to take it away from them. Once they no longer have on their fog glasses and no longer addicted, they'll see what they almost lost. Sometimes it takes some longer than others. At this point, they usually have to work hard to make things right again. That's when they fight for the marriage.
Quote
I wonder if he thinks I'm fine with him being gone. How do I let him know I'm not, without seeming pathetic at the same time?
First of all, you do want him to think you are fine. You need to show him your strength and courage. He needs to know that you can be happy without him if it comes to that. You can let him know you love and WANT him, but that you don't NEED him.
haven't you heard people say well "if he/she had fought for me".
I think I was misunderstood. I've heard WSs say "if he/she had fought for me, I would have come back." So what I was meaning is, I don't want him thinking I've given up on him. Not that it matters at this point anyway.
Quote
First of all, you do want him to think you are fine. You need to show him your strength and courage. He needs to know that you can be happy without him if it comes to that. You can let him know you love and WANT him, but that you don't NEED him.
Thank you! Thank you!!! for the reminder. I need to write this down, make a bookmark out of it or something... gotta get this memorized and STUCK in my head!!
So DD texted him and woke him up (12:30), he works nights, I told her she needed to be careful about that... She raised her voice at me and said "well if he was sleeping here, I would know that he was sleeping!!" Darn, she's got a point there ;-) well I went and repeated that to him, he didn't seem to care one way or the other FOGs THICK! So to be honest I told DD that I had mentioned that to him and she said to me (SHOCK) "Great, now he's going to think I want him to come home." Wow, I didn't know she felt like that. Later I appologized and said I'm not used to keeping things from him, but I will try really hard not to repeat stuff anymore!
Your DDs reaction is perfectly normal. I had the same reaction when my M decided to take my f back. At that age there is much more anger than pain (Don't get me wrong, she's in allot of pain, but it's all manifested as anger).
From her perspective, her hero, mentor, protector cares more about some hag than he does her, you or her siblings. So now that the initial shock and self blame is over, she is going to be mad for a long time. Is there a way you could get them into counseling, even if it's through school. I suppressed the pain for years, and even after the anger had gone away the pain stayed there for years.
Does the school know? This is important, My B and I never showed any kind of pain or anger in front of our M, and it was all at school. My DD has told me that she has cried at school, but she is in anger stage as well now.
Keep being the wonderful M you are and be there to listen. It's all you can really do because anything you try to teach her right now won’t get through.
(((((Soon and Kids))))) Let them know they have fans here that are praying for them...
I think I was misunderstood. I've heard WSs say "if he/she had fought for me, I would have come back." So what I was meaning is, I don't want him thinking I've given up on him. Not that it matters at this point anyway.
Just ANOTHER WS justification. He wants you to think all of this is your fault. You are trying to fight for your marriage right now. Neither one of you had the MB tools before and it's hard to fight for a marriage when you don't know what's wrong in the first place. Now you probably know what went wrong and how to fix it.
It breaks my heart to see the children in pain as well. I really wish those stupid waywards had a friggin clue what there absence does to kids.
Maybe to avoid the calling late at night thing, maybe WS can give her a time she can call him up to.
I am so with you on the year thing sweetie. I know I cannot last that long. No way, no how.
Anyway, my DD14 is having a realy hard time of it too. But she has just clammed up about it. But she is MOODY...almost like she had permanent PMS. I got her back into counseling now, so hopefully we can get her worked through this. Do you have yours in counseling???
Anyway, you know where to go to vent....and rage....
no, counselings been offered, but they don't want to. I think I just need to spend more quality time with them, not discussing dad... doing somethig fun and perhaps do family therapy, just the four of us.
I've been following along for a bit, and just wanted to comment quickly on something you said. I don't know how to do the fancy pants quote thing (every time I try, I end up with my entire post being marked as a "quote", so I just gave up). Anyways, you said "haven't you ever heard them say if he/she would have fought for me...".
OK-- so, there's a fine line between "fighting" for your marriage and becoming a desperate doormat (I'm not saying you ARE a desperate doormat, I'm just familiar with how easy it is to become one when you are "fighting" for your marriage because I know that for awhile I became a desperate doormat...). And desperation is not attractive to anyone...
Yes, you want to make it CLEAR to your H that you have made changes in yourself... and that you are willing to make those changes to have a stronger better marriage. And that YOU are an independent, interesting person with a lot to offer-- that won't stand for being walked all over.
Fighting for your H does not involve letting him walk on you or cake eat. It involves making it CLEAR that YOU'VE made the changed YOU need to, and that the M is a top priority for you-- but that YOU are a top priority for YOU too. Desperation is nowhere in there.
And I know all too well that feeling of being spineless when it comes to H... I am too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I wish I could say I wasn't.
Ok, major help needed! 2X4's maybe, I don't know. I guess i just need to keep hearing it over and over until I get it through my thick skull, whatever "it" is.
So I had an emergency to attend to out of town today. Comes with the job, doesn't happen often at all. Called WH to take DD to practice, he wasn't thrilled! HE HASN'T spent much time with them AT ALL!! and we even talked about this last week and he said he'd start doing better!!!!!
So by the time I got back to town, finished up paper work at the office and headed home I was MAD!! I called his cell phone, figuring he wouldn't answer and he didn't (showering getting ready for work at "her" house). I was upset and said if he had time to stop by before work because I'd like to yell at him for maybe 5 minutes. All along he's said he wishes I would just yell at him and be angry at him, but I haven't been able to! I don't know what it is!! I CAN'T show him my anger (which could be a good thing considering LB). Well he called as he was pulling into work, asking what was wrong. I said it's about the kids. We're taking our anger out on each other. He said if he could get away he'd come by so I could "yell" at him. Well that was two hours ago and I've calmed down now!
I've made myself a list of negative things about him to carry around in my pocket when I start feeling bad for myself and missing him and wishing for him to come back. Doesn't matter how bad it was, (which wasn't bad, sure he was grouchy a lot and has no patience, but that's not so bad). Anyway I know I still want him home!
He hasn't "moved in" with her, he's just staying there ALL the time! Sleeps there, gets his laundry done. He just has me soooo confused. I can't imagine this turning out to be anything of a long relationship, she's been with other married men, cheated on her husband etc... and HE (my WH) hasn't been faithful with her!! HA HA!! I'd love to tell her, but i"ve never talked to her, saw her driving once and had to do all I could not to ram her! UGH!!! Warthog! I wish she'd drop off the face of the earth!
It must be an "angry" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Day for us BS..I was angry too. Actually, I told MC and WS I was angry...actually, I believe my words were "I am so incredibly angry with him". Didn't help though, except to get me all worked up and upset, and looking like the fool in the office.
Oh well, but Hey I am proud of you for acknowledging your anger. WS is correct in that you aren't showing it enough, even though you really don't want to show it to him.
Anyway, hope you and kiddies are fairing well...and yes some fun family time is in order. I think I am going to do that this weekend with my kiddies as well. It's been awhile since we did anything fun and I think that is just what the DR. ordered.
STRANGENESS....wh offered to take the kids to school this a.m., after he dropped them off he came back, here!?! weird. I was getting ready to leave had an appointment and then work, I was thinking he was either hanging around to ask how much money he could take this week, or to drop some sort of bomb on me, or perhaps waiting for me to ask him for a ride, because the eye doctor suggested it in a message they left yesterday and he heard it when he brought the kids in from school. Nope- told him I didn't "need" him to take me to my appointment. So off I went, off he left (I assumed to go to "warthogs" house to sleep) Then he called my cell to see how the appointment went, texted me, called again, then I answered and he said school was getting out early. Then he text again 2 more times, then asked if I could get the kids after school, because he'd like to sleep. I agreed to, he later called my cell AGAIN and thanked me for getting them so he could sleep. This evening he's texted me a couple of times too.... way to strange and too much contact for an evening that he's not working. I'd love to believe this means something in my favor, but I've decided that regardless I'm going to continue on the path of taking care of me and not "needing" him. I'm his lighthouse, but I'm not chasing after him.
laundry calls... I don't have a laundry "boy" like N2F does ;-p
Ya, keep your hands off my "laundry" boy..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Ya I hate all of that too. You are doing good by not "expecting" anything. It's been those expectations that have gotten me where I am. And good for you for taking care of yourself. This is most important. So what are your big plans for the weekend???? Me, I don't know. I have to pick uo the inlaws tomorrow at the airport. WS asked me to do it, I just said I couldn't believe he was asking me to do that, so he said nevermind. Then he told his mom to find someone else to do it. She called me.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />..Well, I can't very well say no to my MIL when she has been such an angel to me through the years.
And I am also going to paint the hallway in the stairwell and the front foyer. And then play cards with the family tomorrow. Sunday we will go to church, then maybe I will take the kids to the Rec Plex (community center).
What are your big plans??? Something fun I hope....
DD has a b-ball game so we'll go to that, then have cake and ice cream for DSs 16th B-day. I need to get back into my favorite past time, scrapbooking! And I have some work I can do this weekend and it will count towards hours for next week.
Oh and SUNDAY is the big game!! GO PATRIOTS!! going to watch that with DS and probably pig out ;-) other than that, hopefully the weekend will go by fast! LOL It seems like just yesterday I was saying TGIM boy the week flew by!! Weekends are too hard for me, plus I LOVE MY JOB!!!
Hmmm where will your inlaws stay? How dare he ask you to pick them up!! Do they know what he's been doing??
My inlaws live here. They were in Hawaii for the last 2 weeks and are coming home tomorrow. My MIL knows what is going on, don't know/don't care if FIL knows. OMG...I forgot about the game on sunday. Jeezzzz, and I am a HUGE football fan. It just sucks that DDay happened in the middle of the season, and I kinda lost track of everything......and sorry, but its more like GO GIANTS....Eli is my future BIL ya know....lol
Hey Not, did ya like that friggin book I wrote you last night! hehehe...I have found you examples of PBLs so just let me know when you are ready to see them. BTW-our email address is [email]stillstaying@yahoo.com.[/email] If either of you ladies ever need anything-just let me know! And Sunday between church and Rec Plex, tell the kids. Seriously.
SS- sounds like you are feeling a little better about yourself. You are calm and cool, and he is starting to come back around. Just let him be, and don't try to talk him into or out of anything. Be your Goddess self and happy- smile alot! Have you told your children yet? I can't remember...if not, they need to be told immediately also.
Listen, I know where you are coming from. We have all been taught our whole lives that what happens between a married couple should stay between the married couple. But put yourself in the kids' shoes for a sec. They deserve the truth about their lives, no matter how mad it makes your Hs. This is not punishment for your Hs! It is exposing the truth to children whose fathers have abandoned them in the most selfish way. They need to know it isn't their fault, they need to know what to think, and that they can ask questions and speak their mind. Open that door for them before this does permanent damage to them.
I will pray for you both tonight...you ladies are so strong! I hope things turn around for both of you soon so that you can find the peace you deserve.
well I was up for a bit, now I'm down ;-( Talked to DD14, she's staying with a friend tonight. She saw dad at the video store, he was alone, but driving warthogs vehicle. She said they looked when he was pulling out and they didn't see anyone in the vehicle with him... but that right there made me sad to know he drives around in her hog mobile.
Yep kids knew back in June, we told them because other kids were finding out and we wanted to be the ones to tell them. He didn't come out and say he was screwing around on their mom, but they get the picture. They're actually pretty mad at him, but have trouble showing it... jeesh, just like mom!!
Ugh... going back to re-read "lighthouse" and the "negatives" list that I made about him ;-) Reminds me why would I want a guy like that in my life! DD14 doesn't want him to come home, she actually yelled at me one day "why would you even want him to come home" Boy that was rough, but then I woke up the next day thinking DUH!! He's such a negative nag! no wonder the kids don't mind that he isn't around... wish I was a smart as them ;-)
then I woke up the next day thinking DUH!! He's such a negative nag! no wonder the kids don't mind that he isn't around... wish I was a smart as this
Hey are we married to the same man??? Just kidding...do not get down, stay UP......think good thoughts and what it is you want to accomplish this weekend....
gotta run now..DD14 wants to watch a movie with me....
Sorry...LOL...warthog! I have to giggle-love the nickname!
Glad to hear your children know. I would definitely let them know you are working a specific plan to get him back home so that they don't see you as enabling an abuser. Your DD14 is already seeing this and asking questions. Ugh-this has to be soooo hard. I'm so sorry!
All 3 times that he moved out was to be this with same OW, right? You have been going through this for a long time now, and honestly, I don't see a whole lot of LBs on your part, because you are such a quiet person to begin with...What I am getting at is-how long do you want to continue Plan A? Are you OK to just wait for the A to die a natural death? It's great if that's the case, but I just want to be sure I know where you are coming from on this sicth.
What kind of exposure have you done on the warthog's side? Do you have all of her info...name, address, is she M?? Obviously you know what she looks like and her hogmobile!
I need to go back and re-read some of your thread, huh! I am getting forgetful in my old age (among other reasons...hehehe).
or I could always do a quick re-cap... the first time was when he was in military and it was with someone I never knew, these last two times it's been with warthog... she cheated on her husband and her husband slept with her sister, it was ugly, then he died of cancer...4mos after that she started hitting on my WS! AND another married man. She's assured my WS that she doesn't want to see the OOM anymore. HA! She has two younger kids. I know of no one on her side to expose to... WS said her mother wasn't thrilled with what she was doing, but I don't know her mother.
You are right, I'm not one to LB... neither is he, until this crap! I've got plenty of plan A left in me, I just keep reminding myself that most affairs end, and if I keep being the lighthouse, when it dies or when something happens between the two of them, he'll hopefully come back and agree to WORKING!
we emailed each other yesterday and I explained how I wasn't going to put any more pressure on him to see the kids... and I reminded him that I loved him and he wrote this back "I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU COULD, I DON'T COMPREHEND HOW YOU COULD EVER LOOK AT ME WITH LOVE LIKE YOU DESERVE TO HAVE." And then he came home this morning and hung out as I was getting ready for work. He hasn't done that since he left over a month ago... so I was trying to decifer the fogbehavior! Mistake!!! could have meant nothing.
Oh, I don't know about that- it is OK to have hope, just not expectations (geez, where have I heard that before? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). At least there is some semblance of civility on his part. You just keep Plan A-ing him when you can (without chasing him, like you said) and keep being your awesome self and he will come around! I hope sooner rather than later!
thanks! he's hugely civil, we both always have been, that's why this is such a mystery to me. HA and he's miserable I can see it in his eyes, he's miserable for the pain he's causing and I honestly don't believe he's even "happy" over there. No matter... gotta keep on, keepin' on... and let it die (hopefully sooner rather than later)
I know those darn expectations! Can we bury them out back with the warthogs corps? ;-)
I'm the one that's OLD. At 53 I could be the mother of all of you..but inside I FEEL like I'm in my 20s...remarking on Lsla referring to her OLD AGE....
Anyways...
Serenity, what do you think caused your marriage to be vulnerable to the WARTHOG? You may have said before but I have forgotten. Sorry.
It seems like your PLAN A IS BEING EFFECTIVE...was going to help you refine it given the additional information...
I was suffering from migraines, the doc put me on a medication that KNOCKED me out!!! I slept all the time! I didn't want to sleep, it made me sad and mad that I could not function beyond going to work and sleeping!! Then instead of thinking it was the meds they run me through all sorts of tests thinking it was everything and anything. So what happens while I'm sleeping.... ENs are neglected!! this happened from about Oct-May... they started "chatting" in February and got together in April and told me in May, just after I switched Doctors, switched meds and got my energy back!
So I just figured out what it was he was doing hanging around yesterday... I peeked in his email that he uses for family, not warthog, that's a different account, anyway there's a "draft" email of a list of things he wants from home ;-( Not a lot that's for sure, but enough to say he's not coming home anytime soon. ;-( He came to plow the drive this a.m. and brought me a latte ;-) but I'm sad now... knowing that he's further from coming home than I had hoped.
So when he does let me know that he wants to take some stuff from the house should I act happy for him? Actually I don't know that I could, that would be a lie anyway... but I can't be all teary eyed and crying begging him not to, because he's going to do what he wants anyway... I just don't know what would have the biggest impact on him... any suggestions???
Do NOT beg and plead, but there is no reason you cannot calmly and confidently state your truth. Something like "I am sorry you feel the need to abandon your family and move in with another woman. We love you and would love for you to come home." I certainly wouldn't say much more than that...just change the subject. What good could come of it? If he is determined to do this, then let him go! She sounds like a real piece of work, so I'm sure it won't take long for him to realize what he is missing. I would tell him that until an LSA is drawn up, he will ONLY be taking personal items out of the home (IF he brings it up).
13DD broke down and cried today, to him! But I was the "cause"... supposidly I was being "stupid" about her chores. I was like right! She's never cried about chores before I"m sure that's all that she's upset about. Well I ended up crying too, he felt like crap, had to pull himself together before he could go upstairs... his mom was here to celebrate sons #16. Anyway it all turned out pretty good. He's committing himself to coming on Wednesdays for supper and spending more time here with the kids. HAAA plan A needs to be shaped up I guess... not that I haven't thought I was doing a darn good plan A all along!
anyway at one point during my breakdown I asked him if he was really happy "over there" and he said he wouldn't have left here if he was happy. HA talk about not answering the question! I was thinking it's because he isn't happy over there, honestly doesn't act like it, but then again maybe he didn't want to speak the truth because of how that would make me feel... ugh I don't know?!?
Honey, all you can do is your best Plan A. He is missing his home. Make is hard for him to be away. But please be careful with the SF. Too many BSs have given up their health because of an STD that their WS brought home to them. I'm not trying to scare you, but just saying-get tested and be careful.
You are doing a great Plan A. I'm sorry you cried and were upset tonight, but this is reality. There are going to be times when the emotions overwhelm you. Don't beat yourself up over those times. Just pick yourself back up and make sure the next few times he stops by you are all Goddessed up and smilin'! I hope this will all be over for you soon.
You don't want any advice from me.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, cuz I haven't done anything but make a mess of my situation. and I'm not a VET <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.
Actually, I would take Res advice and don't ask him again if he is happy over there. Don't bring up OP...ever...remember its YUCK.
Tell son Happy Birthday. Hows the scrapbooking coming along??? Good I hope. and 13yr DD's, what are we going to do with them???? If you are like me, you never know if they are upset with what is going on or hormones, or friends, or GOD FORBIDE boys, or any combination of these....
Gosh, you couldn't convince me to be 13 again for anything. Well, maybe, because 34 hasn't been all that great.
Oh well, such is life....
not2fun
PS....Res, thanks you for your support for the both of us...you are truly a godsend....
Thanks, Not! It deeply saddens me to hear the pain you guys (and ALL BSs) are going through. It keeps me sound in my resolve to do everything humanly possible to make up for what I've done to my DH. So, it helps me, also.
I wish for all of your WSs to turn around and realize the devastation they are causing you and your families. I wish for them to be healed and to come home and help you begin to heal. And I wish that God will grant you peace as you fight so bravely for your marriages.
You sound like my sister, Res. Do you know what started lifting her WW fog??? My situation. She said she never truly understood and didn't care what her A did to her BH until she saw the desperate and utter pain and sorrow I was going through. Now, her and hubby are on the road to recovery.....yeah for them.....
It's hard I DEFINITELY KNOW...but try to grow in your ACCEPTANCE of who the WS is...
He is NOT REALLY your H...
His main focus is on justifying his affair..
So if you ask him a question that provides him that opportunity..YAY for HIM..he scores one...
It is a FIGHT, SERENITY..against the WS..against the affair...
The WS is by nature a LIAR, a PRETENDER...DECEITFUL..
My H says that he got so used to LYING that he began to think that his LIES were the truth..he says he could have won an ACADEMY AWARD for his acting..OK, Denzel..LOL..is what I call him..
So for the WS..ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS..
I had to stop listening to MUCH of what he said..when I knew it was BLAH..BLAH..BLAH...
LOOK AT HIS ACTIONS..when he comes over, when he calls you...
Not-- nope no scrappin' ;-( maybe before the game tomorrow. I really do need to get back to that and quit this obsessing!! You hang in there.
Thank you LaLa and Mimi... for some silly reason I keep thinking my WS is soooo unlike other WSs ;-) I know foolish of me, but... maybe it's out of guilt that he still does so much for us. He has called and texted and emailed and IMd more this past week. He really can't understand why I would even want him to come home, let alone that I still love him. But I'm going back over and reading plan A stuff, I know I've got to stop telling him I love him, he knows that, well I don't love WS, but I do love my H. The sad look he has in his eyes tears at my heart. Part of him feels miserable for what he's doing, I can tell. You know how MANY BSs say they're WS blames them for the affair... he doesn't in fact if I bring up something I could have done better he continually reminds me that it isn't/wasn't my fault, that it was his because he didn't communicate his needs to me... anyway, I know you all probably think I'm making excuses for him, but he really was a good person before WARTHOG got her claws and fangs into him. OK, maybe my sleep deprived head is going overboard. Nope, he is different ;-) we'll see if I still believe that tomorrow.
This a.m. I wrote myself a note and put it in my pocket, because I was in a bad mood! "I am a decent person. I deserve honesty and respect. I don't deserve to be lied to or used!(disgusting!)"
I just have to keep reminding myself of that!
None of us heard a peep from him yesterday. I got an email at work today... blah blah, not feeling well because of the game, talked to his friend about an apartment (YEAH!)* going to get a hair cut, and signed it have a good day.
*I say yeah, because I didn't re-ask, he volunteered the info and I would much rather have him living in an apartment than with the warthog!!
I've backed off, trying to be still, still praying, standing, (and obsessing)... but it seems like we have better conversations when he initiates... so I'm still hanging on... goodness I keep wondering to myself what would I be doing with my time if I weren't obsessed with the mess life is right now. I know, I know I need to get on with life!! I'm tryin'
goodness I keep wondering to myself what would I be doing with my time if I weren't obsessed with the mess life is right now. I know, I know I need to get on with life!! I'm tryin'
;-)
Me too Serenity....we better get off our pity potties before Res and Mimi stone us......LMAO......
I replied to you in my thread about the "list"....
Hehehe...just kidding! I have seen tremendous growth in you two over the past few days. I think with each other's support (and MB), you can find the strength you need to shine like the stars you are!
so he emailed this "schedule" to see the kids over the next week... I hadn't asked in some time, I've backed off, really I have. Anyway... pretty much plans to see the kids everyday and come over for dinner more often. can't help but be pesimistic and think something (else) is up... oh well, I'll wait it out and see if he follows through and not "expect" anything... but honestly I'm tense for a shoe to drop ;-(
no clue what goes on over there! Schedule has changed a bit due to snow days. What sucks is the kids don't want to do much with him... they're teens of course not, I'm just thinking he's probably happy over there because her two little wartpiglets are probably really into him, playing games etc... things our kids have out grown, it just really makes me jealous.
any bets he's set up this nice little schedule and spends more time around here waiting for tax return to be deposited and then he'll be gone again ;-( bummer of a day!!
I honestly couldn't go to plan B... I know, I know... MB... but really I would rather have what we have right now, the email, texting, late night computer chats than nothing at all. That would drive me insane. I have thought about a modified plan B, but I'm not ready for that, yet.
I'm always aware that the more time he spends over here, or somewhere with the kids is more time that he is "away" from her and her piglets (nothing against her kids they did nothing wrong).
He's "scheduled" to come over for dinner on Sunday. I'm going to treat his stomache well ;-)
oh geesh, you meant the tax return... LOL I thought you meant the warthog and her kids LOL!! The majority of the tax return is already scheduled to pay off some bills and he knows and has agreed to that... but me being pesimistic wonders why it is he's been in so much contact for about a week now... still wondering, time will tell.
AAAaaaaahhhhh, NO PESSIMISM ALLOWED!!! You are an optimist! He loves you and that is why he wants to spend time with you! You are doing such a great Plan A!
(ps-there is NO SUCH THING as a "modified" Plan B-you either go PB or you don't, and you are too far from it to be worried about it anyways! A modified PB doesn't work)
And Laundry Boy (hehehe-I like Grasshopper better), no, there is no way to keep it from him. The government and the banks require that both signatures are on it, even if it is deposited. The bank requires it be put into a joint account, or if it is cashed, they must BOTH be present.
I honestly couldn't go to plan B... I know, I know... MB... but really I would rather have what we have right now, the email, texting, late night computer chats than nothing at all. That would drive me insane. I have thought about a modified plan B, but I'm not ready for that, yet.
You are doing a SUPER PLAN A!
I absolutely agree with LaLa..there's no such thing as a MODIFIED PLAN B!!
A word of warning to you, though. One of my GREATEST ERRORS was doing PLAN A too long. My H actually fell more deeply "IN LOVE" with the OW while he was CAKE-EATING because he was feeling NO PAIN. He was basking in the attention of TWO WOMEN and he thought he had been there waiting for him on the side. SOOOO at some point, after your effective PLAN A, you may need to do PLAN B.
Because, in order to be motivated to end the affair, THE WS HAS TO SUFFER!! Getting lulled into a cake-eating situation, he continues to feel OK, feel good, get his drug high and still have YOU..YUCK...
Part of PLAN A is talking to him about ending his affair. If he is making no strides to do that, then there's a PROBLEM...
And BTW, My dear GODDESS SERENITY, you deserve so much more than those crumbs. Your H belongs home with you and his children, not chatting with you like you are a nobody. Chest up, head high, you are HIS WIFE..not his chat partner. PLAN B would be doing what is necessary to bring him home where he belongs...and now during your PLAN A, you are to TELL HIM the point of your actions...you are to TELL HIM that you do not like just chatting with him....are you to be TELLING HIM and SHOWING HIM, of course, that you WANT HIM WITH YOU!!! He's giving you CRUMBS. You deserve a FEAST!! You are a DIAMOND. He is treating you like GLASS!!
Part of PLAN A is talking to him about ending his affair. If he is making no strides to do that, then there's a PROBLEM...
I've been avoiding all talk about relationship and marriage, and I thought plan A was not to talk about the affair either... because that always seems to be a LB or DJ.
I keep asking myself "why do I love him?" We've had a pretty great marriage, even though I look back and see that he's been such a grouch and so depressed for so long. Why would I still love him after ALL he's put us through! And the kids OMGoodness why does he have to put them through this!
Anyway, I'm beginning to wonder if I haven't been too nice to him. Part of it is I appreciate the fact that his paycheck is still coming to us. He's racking up at least one CC to support this sleazy fling.
I know in my heart and in my head I still want him back, but I'm getting tired of waiting. This is stupid and it's gross and I hate that there are soooo many of us out here going through it! ICK!!!
So my "Love Must Be Tough" came today, I'll read that this weekend.
Oh yeah, the draft email that lists the "things" he wants to take has not been sent to me yet. He did come by during work and picked up a few dvds, made a comment about being lucky to watch tv while they work... yeah, he's just taking what he wants little by little. Like I can't see that! grrr
Soon.... (((((Soon))))))) You think I would let you guys go that easily? I gt lucky that my my DW saw thw ind of jerk she was truly dealing with.
I sgree with the ladies, your Plan a is solid.You just need to give it some time. what really hit me in the last week Soon is that the vets were absolutely right about the fact that nothing can happen as far as recovery goes until the A is over. so unti lthe time hat it is, you must concentrat on those ENs and just ignoring your instincts to LB. He needs to feel like you will have a great life without him. that will make a difference. Also my Dw told me last night that one of the bigest factors in dicidig to work things out was the fact that after all she had put me through, I never gave up hope and kept working the plan.
So vottow line is keep working your plan and don't give up hope.
Long talks about the relationship or trying to educate him about how he is doing something wrong will get you nothing. But even though he won't enjoy it, you still need to tell him that you will not be in a marriage that involves a third person. You don't have to discuss the affair with him, just tell him that you won't tolerate it because it is disrespectful to you and hurts you as well.
Then change the subject or walk away. Reverse babble...Learn it and use it.
"It sure would be nice to have you home all the time. Why don't you lose the warthog and we'll get some help with solving our problems together."
As he starts to blah-blah-blah you say, "Hey, I'm fixing that casserole you like so much tomorrow night, Why don't you come over for dinner."
You say your piece and ignore whatever he tries to say, because it is about 99 and 44 one hundreths percent pure fog-babble. You really have to begin to visualize a Charlie Brown cartoon here. When ever the parents talk, all you ever hear is wah-wah-wah...wah-wah..wah-wah-wah. So as he starts to give you his line of bovine excrement, you visualize Linus with his blankie as he hears his parents saying...wah-wah-wah wah wah wah...wah-wah-wah...
TMTS (AKA:Call me anything, but don't call me late for for SF) give her the three step plan.
1)Meet his ENs 2)Avoid Love Busters 3)Have No Expectations
What causes you to begin to lose hope and doubt yourself and your own self worth is when you do something and expect him to react to it in the way you want him to. When he doesn't it makes you doubt that what you did was wrong. But that isn't true. You do what you need to do no matter what he does. That is why it is called a plan...You do stuff on purpose. You act rather than react. You control what you have control over and that is you. You take that control back from him and refuse to be defined by his bad decisions.
All together now...
Meet his ENs. Avoid Love Busters Have ______ (Fill in the blank)
To save your marriage somebody has to be strong. That somebody is you!
I was coming here this morning to tell you the same thing.
Remember: SHORT AND SWEET.."I want you home with me"...
My H told me the SAME THING as TMTS' W:
Quote
one of the bigest factors in dicidig to work things out was the fact that after all she had put me through, I never gave up hope and kept working the plan.
NEVER GIVE UP HOPE, SERENITY..BELIEVE in the PLANS!!
I am so glad you got "Love must Be Tough", because honey, when I read your posts, that is what you need to do (I am just got mine WED...almost done...). You are better than you WS deserves and you are better than what he is giving you. Which ain't swquat. The paycheck?? Still gonna come of you all D. Whether he likes it or not. His children are not charity. The fact that he choose to leave, was just that HIS CHOICE.... Honey, not trying to be too hard on you here, but I am worried about you.
TMTS.... ummmhh..nice typo's. Were you a little drunk when you wrote this??? I think you were...a little drunk on a wine called "Recovery at the Love Shack"....LMAO...
Mark, you are wise...yes we already knew that, but I think you like to prove that over and over again...lol. I have to say I didn't know you were a comedian though. The Charlie Brown analogy??? That cracks me up. I myself am going to have a hard time looking my WS in the face next time he starts up with his fogspeak...wah wah--wah wahhh...seriously, too funny. I like the simple breakdown of the rules as well. We bs only need to do 3 things. You are also right about the expectations....this is where I think women have the most trouble though...
and Mimi....you are OUR lighthouses....you are a shining example of what to do....(and this is where she will blast me on not finding out about A.....ughghhg....love must be tough right...)
ok SS, you got great stuff from the best of the best on here...we know what to do...lets get to it....
Women aren't the only ones with trouble having expectations...Tell her TMTS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I went back and read TMTS's threads from the beginning. Knowing what I know now about how things are going, it frankly made me want to cry...with joy, that is.
SS, The problem you have is to get your message through to him without getting sucked into the garbage he is trying to sell you. His stuff is irrational fog-speak alien-babble blah-blah-blah. You need to get your truth delivered through the fog and then just disengage before he can respond. His position gets stronger in his mind when he can make excuses for it.
Don't give him any chance to generate those justifications and just say "You're wrong; you're an idiot and you're not acting rationally" and then let it steep for a while. It's like making a pot of tea. I can throw a tea bag into a pot, add hot water, dunk the bag up and down a couple times and it looks like tea, but it is really pretty weak and not as good as it could be. So instead of dumping the water into the pot and then stirring it up and trying to move on toward drinking it, I need to add the water and just let it sit for a few minutes so the flavor can be extracted from the tea leaves. Then it will have it's full flavor.
When you try to tell him you want him to end the affair, you need to have that concept in mind. You have to tell him what he needs to hear and then not try to stir it beyond that point. Jerking on his string to bounce him up and down a few times will not make him get it faster, instead it will only frustrate you. And the longer you engage in actively trying to change him, the more entrenched he becomes because he is fighting against you actively.
So you need to hit and run. Get in; get out and git 'er done...then let it sink all the way to the bottom before you even check to see if he heard you.
So you need to hit and run. Get in; get out and git 'er done...then let it sink all the way to the bottom before you even check to see if he heard you.
short and sweet, hit and run... hmmmm... those statements where I say "the affair needs to end" or "time to come home so we can recover our marriage" those are LBs to him. He gets that icky look in his eyes that sends spears through my heart. oh well... tomorrow he's coming over early afternoon for dinner (supposidly) other things on his "schedule" did happen as he said they would... I imagine he will show up though, he wants to know what's left of the tax return so he can have some. I honestly feel used up! In the last few days I think I've come to a point where I know I deserve better, I need to respect MYSELF, or he surely won't. He tm 5!!!! times during a movie tonight. wanting to know who I went with, did I go alone, what did I see, etc... the nerve!! I responded 2 or 3 times and then just waited until it was over. geesh!! I don't ask him what he's doing, one because he stopped telling me long time ago, and two I don't want to know the icky details!
So tomorrows plan, lookin like a goddess ;-) house nice and spiffy... and a good dinner with blackeyed peas ;-) ha!
What I'm saying is don't engage him with it and don't try to convince him of it. Just state your single line point of the entire argument and then get out of the discussion all together.
You know him better than I would if he were my brother...You have to decide how to state this, but you simply want to deliver the message that you want a marriage to him without the OW involved. The opening for this might be something he would say, like "Why can't you just let me go?" You reply with "I made a vow I take seriously and will do everything necessary to have what I signed up for on that day, a marriage to you with no other woman as a part of it and an intact family." Then get out of Dodge. Leave the room, leave the building, leave the conversation right there hanging like an albatross around his neck. If you can change the subject, fine, but don't let him make a case of any kind for two reasons.
1)If he gets to think about it and make himself out to be a martyr in his own mind, then he becomes more entrenched in the affair. 2)The fog-babble bullchit he is likely to lay on you will catch you off guard no matter how you think you have prepared for it. It will leave you feeling week, empty and less resolved to save your marriage.
Will it make a difference to him?
Not one you will see, but trust me on this, he will have to think about your words and not be able to dismiss them. He will attempt to counter your argument, but since you won't be there it will never even leave an echo. And the more he tries to make his case to himself, the more likely that the fog will fade momentarily and he will have to deal with truth. You will leave him arguing with himself instead of you, and in that argument, truth eventually wins every single time. Reality cannot be denied. It isn't relative and won't cease to be reality just because we want it to. It might take a year, or two, or maybe even longer, but he will have to face it the whole time.
Time for Steve's Rocks in the River analogy again, I think. I know everybody knows this one, but it bears repeating until we all get it in our gut...
You stand on the bank of a swollen river, too wide, deep and swift to cross. You pick up a rock and throw it into the water and watch it vanish beneath the waves. You throw another and another and another...and every one disappears without a trace.
But the rocks aren't disappearing into nothingness. They are in fact piling up on the bottom of the river bed. You can't see them, they have no visible effect on the water rushing over them and the river does not seem to be effected in any way. But because you know that the rocks can't really be going into outerspace of their own accord, you keep throwing the rocks. You throw 499 rocks and see nothing at all for all your efforts. Then you throw the 500th rock and the very tip becomes hardly visible in the foam and swirling flood. And that tiny peak of your efforts paying off that tiny bit give you just a glimmer of hope and you gather the strength to throw one more and one more. And eventually, you have the beginning of a bridge to reach the other side.
But if you stop after the 10th or 50th or 498th or even 499th rock, you will never see the result of your efforts so far and to you, the flood remains impassible.
Nothing you say or do will make him go back to before this happened. Nothing you say or do will have a visible effect on his attitude. But if you keep throwing the rocks and do nothing to take them away, you will eventually see a bit of hope and then you can make a push to go forward.
But you can't argue with him and that means you can't debate him either. You can't educate him or make him stop this silliness and do what you know he is capable of.
So you have to state your hurt., your pain, your truth and then disengage so that he cannot refute what you have said. Don't wait for validation. Don't expect tears and don't think things will be noticeably different.
Just do the plan...
Meet his ENs... Avoid love busters...
Have no expectation of him reacting in a certain way.
And then get out of the conversation before he has time to react to what you said and just believe when I tell you he will still be thinking about it much later...
And just so you know, you won't seduce him into returning to you. You might seduce him, but it will not cause him to stop cake-eating. What man wouldn't love to have two women trying to outdo each other in bed?
Not saying you shouldn't be drop-dead/make him slobber all over his tie/"can I borrow your shower to cool off?" gorgeous and HOT HOT HOT. I'm just saying that you won't win the war with that strategy alone.
Just remember that he has the attention span of a grapefruit until he has had time to plan what to say. So you say your piece and let it simmer while moving him into another zone all together or simply walking away.
And above all, no begging or demanding or complaining. Just say one complex sentence he has to think about and step away from the alien...
The good old EXPECTATIONS ladies... Yes I'm refering to you to not...
You guy need to stop trying to force the issue. Anything related to them comming back, R or S must not be initiated by you, but when the bring it up you have to be ready to strike. and like Mark says it has to be short and swift. Look back at the time my FWW brought buying a laptop and tried to pull me into giving her advice. She was trying to go through one of my bondaries (I don't want to hear anything related to your move). All I said was "That's nice, I go to go check on the chicken in the oven" That's the point mark is trying to make to you.
NO EXPECTATIONS!!! NO EXPECTATIONS!!!
Do like they do, act like everything is normal, but don't bring up the R or the A.
Ok, Ok, ;-) keep pounding it into my head! He's coming over for dinner today. No expectations! But I'm not the happiest right now, I noticed he snuck something else out. It was his, but geesh, why be so sneaky about it?! I want to say something about him being deceitful, but that wouldn't be kind. I just hate that he's slipping away a tiny bit more everyday. I know this could take months or years so I've got to be patient.
Hope you all have a wonderful Sunday, I'll be back this evening to reread and I think I need to start printing out some of this great wisdom!!
Thanks all of you!!
ps Miss M, I have the 180 list, I'll reread it before he comes over.
SS, I've just been going through your thread and I'm amazed at how much your sitch reminds me of mine. Cake eating WH, TMI on his part, etc. Keep your chin up and remember to be still! The no expectation thing is a killer for me. When he says things like "I want us to work this out" I actually buy into it!! LOL I'm working the 180 thing too, I'll keep you in my prayers, hope tonight goes well.
ah, well he was here and gone. had no expectations and so I wasn't let down... he tried to get physical and I moved away saying it wouldn't be appropriate, he said he knows, but if I want to, just give him a call anytime... I decided no more of that! I feel so disrespected afterwards! I refuse to be the Other woman in my own marriage!! now I keep getting texts from him along the lines of him being horny! ugh!!!
well now he isn't texting anymore and we're chatting on the computer, he isn't talking dirty any more, thank goodness, i'd have to make and excuse to get off the computer, If I said something like that to him "too many people in this marriage" I think he'd freak out and not talk to me at all anymore.
I don't know if I could be that direct, scary thought.
he said he could come and make a "housecall" make sure we were all safe.
I said "no, no more "housecalls" how can I ever expect anyone to respect me if I can't respect myself."
him "fair enough- i'm sorry if you feel that you don't "respect" yourself-i don't want that to be the case"
him "i don't feel that i don't respect you.... i hope you don't think that i don't - i guess it may seem that way though... maybe i am just an inconsiderate loser"
me "no, you're not a loser, you've lost your mind maybe, but you aren't a loser. I just don't respect myself for taking seconds or thirds. I don't like being the "other woman" in my own marriage"
him "i guess that puts it into persepctive for me... and i understand your viewpoint"
See what I have to put up with... he always says the right things... even when he babbles...
I'm just going to keep having patience, but set my boundaries! and wait him out!!
That was awesomw! You waitied for him to start, told him exactly how you feel and dropped it. You even recongnize the babble now. The guilt is gtting to him. How much do the kids know? They should be your biggest allie in this, they need to know what plan A and B are and WHY you are doing it.
the kids know he's staying at the warthogs house. Oldest is angry about it, middle daughter hates that I would even want him back and youngest is sad about the whole thing.
after the above conversation we changed topics, he suggested he come over for dinner on wednesday and then again next weekend, we talked about the kids report cards, and he asked if i was going to get the kids something for valentines day or should we get them something together ;-)
see! I think I've got the hang of this... we'll see how it goes. I'm no ones darn doormat anymore! I'm a GODDESS ;-)
and this Goddess has got to get to bed! Can you believe the kids only ended up going to school mon and fri last week... too much snow and it's coming down again! geesh at this rate they'll be going til july!
Hi all, well here's hoping for a good week. I'm still shocked that this decent guy (I thought) could be shackin' up with a ho with two young kids. I feel so bad for the kids, because this is the second (that we know of) married guy she's brought into her house. What those two girls must be learning is sooo very sad. Anyway... I hope they're monsters and very disrespectful to my WH ;-) And I hope they make all kinds of noise while he's trying to sleep. I'll continue to try and make home a place he'd like to come back to.... but I don't know, it's kind of hard to do when he only comes over a couple times a week when I'm here and a few minutes here and there when I'm at work.
YOU GO GIRL...... way to lay down the law.....and stick up for yourself. And stop wonderin' what's going on in "sickoville". yuck. Glad to see you did better than I did this weekend. I forgot, does he want a D? does he think your M is repairable??? Sorry I forgot the details. Well, hopefully you will have a good week and the kiddies will have more school this week. Me??? if the kids get a snow day, I get a snow day...I work for the school district.
not2fun
ps...how is the scrapbooking going??? I am gonna keep bugging you about till you get around to doing it, because I know how much YOU enjoy it, and girl, you deserve some JOY....
and what is it that you do for joy? No I haven't done any scrappin lately. I did buy a new little toy at the craft store the other night, I should play with my scrapbook stuff, I know... but not tonight, I'm in the mood to read some more of Love Must Be Tough... Then maybe tomorrow night I'll scrap ;-)
The big D was mentioned back in May when this first came out. Not even sure he mentioned it this last time, at least not to me, I'm sure he's telling that tramp something though. Back in Dec I asked if he was going to just suprise me and have papers delivered to me and he said no... I hope he would give me some sort of warning (I'm 90% sure he would warn me first).
I used to work for the school system too. But I got was hand delivered a wonderful job by GOD himself at the beginning of December ;-) That has really helped me during the work week!! So our kids have already missed 9 days for snow and the district only put 6 of them in the calendar for this year! Yikes! I could take the days off too, but I still want to get paid so I either take the first part off and go in late, or make up the time later in the week.
I was in a pretty good mood today until DD14 text and said dad picked them up in the tramp mobile. DD13 climbed in and said "ah, I like this car" DD14 elbowed her and gave dad a dirty look, youngest didn't know who it belonged to. HA! These kids are so funny. Son said DD13 saw a piece of paper and wanted to write a not so nice note to the warthog LOL! Gotta love them. I've explained to them, more in the past few days that I do have a plan, that he is doing something he shouldn't be, but that I still love him and he's always been a good dad, so hopefully he'll realize he's made a mistake and come home.
Being friendly with your hubby is a good strategy. It will drive the OW crazy. She will resent any time that he spends with you and his family. She would really freak out if she knew he was hitting you up for benefits!
Keep up the good work. Even though he doesn't come over all the time, he will notice things. The home needs to be clean and sparkling. Put out some fresh flowers if you have them.
Maybe you can borrow some ticket stubs or program to an event like the theatre. Buy a different kind of wine and leave it out. He will notice things like that.
lol, that's a good one believer.. program or tickets! Ha- I couldn't though, it'd be too much like fibbing. As it is whenever he calls the kids or texts he asks what I'm doing. I've asked them to please not tell him, just simply say "do you want to talk to her?" cause really that is his way of asking for me. I told the kids long ago he stopped answering me when I'd ask, so really he shouldn't ask anymore, the kids are so smart, they get it. I almost wish they were too nieve and innocent for this bull, but they aren't.
flowers? fresh flowers? OHMGoodness... hmmm lets see if I can dig beneath the three feet of snow I might find... nope don't imagine there will be any under there! ;-) That would be nice though, I could get some from the grocery store, I'll ask the kids if they wouldn't mind "buying" mom some flowers for VDay.
You don't need to fib, just leave stuff around. It wouldn't be good to make him think you were going out, just doing different things. But it is probably hard to do with three feet of snow.
How's the book coming???? You are doing so good with your Plan A. Before long, I'll be the only one over here in A-ville, struggling to get it right. Of course, just when I start to worry about you and your WS taking advantage of your good nature, you say something like "skankmobile" or "warthog"...you crack me up.
As far as joy for me...that would be reading. Actually, I am almost done with "Tough Love" and "Love Busters" and then I am going to pick up a fiction book. I think I need a little break from the heavy stuff. But nothing too romantic or mushy, that would just tick me off right now.
Anywho,,,I got my snow day today...so I need to go make some use of it...I'll check in later...
we may get a snow day tomorrow. I know what you mean about reading something less heavy. I keep picking up fiction from the library and then returning it unread. This time ;-) I'll read one. I'm only still about half way through Love Must be Tough. I'm not going to sit at the computer all evening, I'm going to read.
WH bought me a nice bottle of wine and some cherry klondike bars for Valentines day, dropped them off when he brought the kids home from school, I was at work. He told the kids to make their mom a valentines card, DD14 said "you should, she's your wife" and then proceeded to play a video game (naughty girl ;-)
WAY TO GO DD14...that's too funny. And he brought you Valentine's stuff....now tell me how we are not supposed to have any expectations when they do crap like that???? Ughhghgh...stupid cake-eaters...maybe you should bake him a cake for Valentines Day. You could put on there "To my Only Valentine..." and then make him take it with him...see what warthog thinks about that one....LMAO...
So whatcha think about the book so far?? Are you learning anything??? I think you will definately have to do Plan B, and by you WS actions, you will succeed once you do this. Remember, you don't want to wait too long for Plan B, or so I hear anyway... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (far be it from me to give advice...I can't even follow my own stuff....).
Anyway, gonna take the kiddies out to dinner....I'll sneak back in later...get some opinions on my Valentines Day idea...
he's sure acting different, now that I set up some boundries! I like it!!
The book is good and I think it's helping me. I want my WH to respect me, not pity me. And the whole thing about dating, when we were younger- people don't beg, and plead to get someones attention, they act more distant and mysterious, that's a big DUH for me! I've gotta keep reading ;-)
ok, so much for expectations! ew what a slimy WH he is. While he was here he pulled out some of his work clothes from our closet and hung them on the back door to take with him, and he forgot them! I'm sure when he comes tomorrow he'll ask where they went and I'll just smile and say "oh, I hung them in the closet where they belong." UGH!!!!
DD asked if I was going to give him a Valentines present (when we were shopping for her boyfriend, too cute, but also depressing for me) I said no I'm not supposed to buy him gifts, I'm working the plan remember ;-) Is that a plan A thing or did I read it on the 180 list? I don't remember... I was thinking of writing him a letter, but I haven't decided yet... we'll see.
Ok n2f now I'm getting off the computer to read! almost 3 hours later, shame!!!
Ohh..I was going to write mine a letter too....a get him some of his favorite candy. Haven't quite decided yet though....I do wish my kiddies were saying things like that though....sigh...
oh oh...look out...TMTS has a bunch of typo's again...must be all that Recovery Wine...lol
lol too funny, I'm enjoying myself a glass of wine tonight, on an empty stomache, not good.
I don't know N2F, in a way DD is being disrespectful, but really I can't blame her. I just wish this didn't have to happen to them. If he wasn't so wayward, she wouldn't have a reason to have a disrespectful attitude. Actually though she's taught me a lot through this mess. The three of them have been great!
DS16! who I was a passenger with this weekend as he practiced driving, in the snow no less- yikes!! is luckily not taking on the "man of the house" attitude as far as I can see,(I'm watching him TMTS). He's such a good boy! Keepin' up with grades, doing chores, given mom hugs ;-) Gotta love him!
Younges is the emotional one but she's hanging tough. They have a lot of friends who's parents have gone through divorce so they do lots of chatting/venting with them.
You know I was SO judgemental about divorced people before this.Growing up I didn't know but maybe two or three kids who's parents were divorced and the reason was usually because the dad was in jail or an alcoholic etc... so in the past when the kids talk about a new friend I would question about parents,and if they were seperated - that would bring up red flags to me, i'd want to know why? was the dad in the picture, who was the mom, why weren't they together anymore? etc, etc... boy did I wake-up!!
WH showed up early this a.m. Nicely I inquired why he was here?, he wasn't due til this afternoon. He said he was awake, might as well come by. Been here all morning, we haven't touched the subject of M or R. He's just soooo weird, I really am starting to believe ;-( that he's ready to take the next step away from marriage, he's just having a hard time coming up with the words because he doesn't want me to start crying and get all upset. I'd like to say I'm prepared, but in all honesty I'm not!!! UGH!!! Of course with the VDay gifts and spending more time here I would have loved to believe it was the other direction he was headed, as in home... but I don't believe that's the case, not with finding his work clothes hanging on the back door yesterday and I snooped in his sock, underwear, t-shirt drawer and they're almost empty now... I guess I'm handling it pretty well for now. I hope I can be strong when he does find the words and drops the bomb! ;-( Pray for me and the kids please.
I don't know how they sleep with themselves at night!! We are sooooo snowed in and I couldn't get out if I had to in an emergency!! He dug his car out and left early this afternoon, just around the time I know his waste got out of work. And he had said he was coming over for supper, but nope didn't stay! I'm sure her driveway is nice and plowed out!!
What kind of trouble are you stirring up tonight??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />....
Ok,,,where is the strong, vibrant, this-is-for-me woman I left last night??? Oh yeah, WS came over this morning with Aude de Skank all over him huh????
Just kidding honey. Do not even try to read into his words or actions. So what if he takes some more clothes. Doesn't mean anything. Last week my WS took the rest of his undies and T-shirts (and I know he did this spitefully...) and today is talking about how much he hates this and wants to come home... Remember, he's the alien/crack addict/WS that you don't want anyway.
I know its hard...you know I know its hard...but keep your chin up and chest out while he is around....and you know what ....if he does drop the bomb......SO WHAT....its not the end of the world....heck...its just more babble anyway...
think of how many times I have come on here crying about my WS saying this to me???? and how many times does he change his mind?????
Ok...I'll get off my speech now...you know I am here to support you. WS do suck...that is all I can say...Ummm one question though...YOu didn't do "anything" while he was there, did you??? Gotta ask, because it sounds like you might have, especially with that other thread you started.......
I really didn't mean to cause such a stir there, but I really did think I read someones thread where they said they did continue and that in the end it saved their M... maybe I was dreaming LOL. I'll delete the thread if it seems to get too heated or raises too much stink, I just think it's interesting.
I'm doing fine this evening, actually. I'm reading about money matters and going to pick up Love Must be Tough and read as much of it as possible tonight.
I know even if he does drop that stinkin' bomb, it's not the end of the world and it's still not over until it's over!
and... N2F... did you see, we had a snow day today!! Don't know what drivings going to be like tomorrow though, freezing rain has been falling for the past few hours, it's a mess!
Glad to see your back...and don't think I didn't notice you didn't answer the question....Thats ok...I still love you. And I don't mean to sound too harsh, I just hate what he is doing to you. I don't know what he was like before the A, but he must have been somewhat decent or you wouldn't be sticking around...
I've been prayin' for ALL of ya! Serenity...honey...him taking a few personal items doesn't mean a thing. At least no more than him actually moving out. I think he is in conflict. Is there trouble at the warthog's three little pig shack?
And this, "DD14 said 'you should, she's your wife' and then proceeded to play a video game (naughty girl ;-)" just had me LMAO!!! She sounds as funny as her AWESOME mommy!
Waiting for an update...**tapping foot**
edited to say...read your update. **tapping stops** Hey not2, I think she's playin' for the DODGERS tonight...hehehe! make sure if ya do (which you shouldn't anyways!) you are CAREFUL!!!
he really was decent, besides having a bit of a temper when it came to traffic, "his" sports teams, projects here and there, just a bit of loud swearing if things didn't go his way with regards to the above mentioned things... not directed at anyone in particular.
He never swore at me, never yelled, never got physical.
Of course he didn't do much when it came to indoor chores, but a lot of men are like that. He was a great cook!
I just think over the last few years he became depressed, started putting on weight and was just all around not happy. Then I got ill and that was it, warthog came around and snagged him up.
Now when he comes around he tries to be in a good mood, we still get about 90% of his paycheck. I don't think he's tried to put the A right in my face. Actually since it started he's been overyly guilty and does extra stuff to try and make up for it.
Does it sound like I'm sticking up for him? Yep, because aside from this I really believe he's a decent guy... and he's said more than once he can't understand why I would even want him back.
I'm still going to hang in and wait for him to say he's made a mistake and wants to come home ;-)
LaLa, funny you should say that about DD14! So many times while we would be having dinner she'd say something with her blonde attitude-directed at me, in a not real nice way, but yet not quite disrespectful, she knows the line, and WH would role his eyes and say how much the two of us are alike. ;-)
He's just soooo weird, I really am starting to believe ;-( that he's ready to take the next step away from marriage, he's just having a hard time coming up with the words because he doesn't want me to start crying and get all upset.
ACCEPT that he's already taken A STEP away from the marriage. You are being the LIGHTHOUSE that is drawing him back in...ACTIONS..ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS...
I get soooo SAD for you guys, remembering when I was there and my heart was beatng out of my chest with anxiety and my heart would be in such pain from the sadness...
What helps is to WORK..WORK YOUR PLAN..come up with ideas of what YOU can do for YOURSELF and for your MARRIAGE...REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE DOES OR SAYS..REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE DOES OR SAYS..which is out of your control..
I'm still going to hang in and wait for him to say he's made a mistake and wants to come home ;-)
I don't recomend this. I recommend PLAN B...because I believe in order for him to come home he will need to suffer..reach his bottom..without you meeting any of his ENs...with the both of you, there is REAL DANGER of him falling more deeply in love with her..because he will feel NO PAIN from the AFFAIR. Being with YOU and HER allows the affair to feel OK with him. He has to SUFFER the LOSS of you in order to end the affair in most instances.
but that would mean he doesn't come around here anymore, when I'm here. i won't allow my kids to go to the pigsty! so I would be out of sight out of mind. I just don't know if I'll be able to do a plan B, I've still got lots of love for him though, the banks not dry yet.
OK, then the WELL should be, if ya know what I mean!!! Sheesh...what's he got to lose in this set-up? Your kids are old enough to make a decision in the matter, SS. They don't have to go there is they don't want. PLUS, if you get an LSA that stipulates that she absolutely cannot be around them until after the D, and the D drags on for 2+ years...shoot, your oldest will be 18, and so on...
But Mimi, don't you think it is a good sign that he is quite attached to Serenity? Mine left on his Harley and darned near ran over me on his way out. He wanted to be with his "soulmate". He had very little interaction with me for over 3 years! And now he wants to get back together....
lol, wh snores too, but it's never bothered me, I can sleep right through it. I even told him I miss that sound. I hope she hates it and it bothers her, or better yet, she probably snores like the warhog she is! and maybe eventually that will get to him ;-)
you are right! i know I deserve him 100% unaddicted and I will hold out for 100% of the good guy!!
ha...my WS is STILL sleeping like crap...he even says he has a more comfortable one than ours, but he still can't sleep. Me,,,I am finally sleeping pretty good.
I have no opinion on whether you should Plan B or continue Plan A....I am messed up myself, so my advice would be no good.....
Mimi...thanks for bumping up your old thread....looks like Serenity and I have some reading to do....lol
yep, i'm having such a wicked hard time getting off this message board, keep finding more and more things to read! plus I was reading through some old emails that wh and I were sending back and forth early summer before i "guilted" him in to coming home... talk about a wasted non-recovery! N2F that's why we have to let them come home on their own! Don't want no grouchy, still in contact with piggy, men around!! ick!!
EVERYONE told me that when I came here almost 5 years ago. I just didn't think it would happen to me. My ex was out the door, in love with a beautiful woman 20 years younger than I.
But the affair ended, albeit 10 days after I divorced him.
Mum, you sound like someone we know just 2 weeks ago, and we know what happened there. I'm going to do a North American whoop [censored] tour and start with you and Not. Both your Hs are IMO looking for a way to come back so badly, but don't think they deserve the chance. Keep on your plan, you guys are doing much better than you think. You are GODDESSES!
This being said I agree with the point Mimi is making (And this applies to you to Not). They boys do not feel enough pressure, they know the door is still wide open and the opportunity to return is there, so why rush? See if the A works out then if it doesn't they'll just waltz back into your arms. They must not be left with this impression that you will wait forever, it must be clear to them that the door closes a little more everyday because this will make them think a little more everyday.
Stay strong Soon, you deserve better than what you are getting and certainly did not deserve for this to happen to you.
thanks tmts, but if they don't think they deserve to come home... which was one of the things I was re-reading in this past summers emails, how do we let them know that even though they may not deserve to come home, they still should come home? My WH doesn't believe in forgiveness for much of anything, he can't get it through his thick skull that as far as I'm concerned I can/will forgive, forget no, forgive yes. Anyone?
I've stopped saying I love you all the time, I really do believe I've done a pretty darn good plan A, taken care of myself and actually being pretty darn up beat lately ;-)
Just keep doing it dear. I have found out over the last two weeks how effective Plan a really is. All the little things, like the text messages, the little gifts, the touching (Please tell me you're touching him when he comes over). But most of all the fact that I didn't give up on her. Once the fog started to lift, this was the thing that made her change her mind about us. The fact that I DID show change, and was consistent about it. So don't give up. He is still very much attached to you, and that will make a difference in the end.
awful, awful day... remember the snow... well after it snowed it rained and froze and then made a slushy mess and we didn't get plowed out, got stuck in the drive way... after many attempts and knowing the kids were going to be late to school I called WH cell, luckily he answered, even though he had already fallen asleep for the day... anyway I said "the vehicle is stuck can you please come take the kids to school." he says "yep, I'll be right over"... well it took awhile for him to get here, but then the kids and I had pushed it out of the driveway, but it got stuck again, where the town truck put snow in front of the house... anway we were all out there trying to get it unstuck when he drove up. I was livid! Didn't say a word to him at this time, just hopped in his car and I took the kids to school while worked on getting mine out from being stuck.
so I come back and he's sitting in, it waiting for me. I said something about him not being where he was supposed to be and this wouldn't happen and he said i knew you were going to say that, if I was here it would have still been stuck (no it wouldn't, because if he lived here, he would make sure it got plowed) anyway I say that's ok, it won't happen again I've hired someone to come and plow for the rest of the winter, that made him mad, "WHO?" by this time I'm crying and he's got tears in his eyes... I go in to get ready for work, while I'm in the shower he comes back with a plow... I leave for work and on the way out appologize for talking to him the way I did... he said please don't hire someone to plow, I'll make sure it gets done from now on. Then I get to work and there was a "sorry" email from him + blah, blah... or as Mark says wah, wah, wah wah. ;-)
anyway Happy VD to me ;-p Anyway I wasn't depressed, sad all day! ;-) and I still LOVE the jerk!! Back to plan A I go!!
You poor thing....I'm sorry your day started out so rotten. And don't worry about the LB. We all have them and you seem to control yours most of the time. I like how you imagined the Wah wah wah wah....this analogy STILL cracks me up. I thought of it today when this girl at work was complaining (she gets on my nerves at times...she's high strung, easily stressed out...OMG, I want to say to her...you don't know what stress is.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />).
Anyway, my day was ok...a little down right now though. Anywho, what's on the plannier for tonight???? A little scrapbooking maybe????
I told WS how I wanted to take a photography class last night. He was surprisingly supportive of the idea. I think that I am messed up in my thinking of him sometimes. I'm not sure why I would think he wouldn't be supportive. I think it is because sometimes in the past he wasn't. Maybe I'm a little too sensitive sometimes..who knows.
Anyway, I'm gonna get some cleaning done and spend some time with DS. DD's went out, so its just me and him...
I'll be around off/on tonight....lucky me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
no scrappin' tonight, making a card for a dear person. and then going to watch a bit of tv, but lucky me I have a tv right here by the computer so I can stay on all night, shame on me. maybe if I hadn't stayed up so late last night I would have handled things better this a.m. oh well, live and learn.
Well, at least in the future, there will be better Valentine's days.
I was just laughing with my sons about the Valentine's Day when we got stuck in the middle of a storm in the ghetto, pushing the car in an area known for drive-by shootings. I'd gone through a huge puddle and the car stopped working.
And that was when I was HAPPILY married. My husband was out with a friend, and I couldn't get him on the phone.
At JT's house, the (grown) kids are watching the 5th Annual Valentine's Day Evil Dead-Evil Dead II-Army of Darkness marathon.
This wonderful event was started by DD25 back in college when none of her friends had significant others and were bummed-so they choose this as their way to remember the day.
What better way to celebrate? Bruce Campbell and campy horror movies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
One reason I don't like V-day is because so many people are left out. My sweetie is gone, my son's just broke up with their girlfriends, my roommates are both alone for now, the 2 ladies I work with don't have anyone.
In Mexico V-day is more like friendship day. EVERYONE participates in festivities.
I didn't let it get to me... I texted him at midnight last night, (he was awake at work) said "Happy Valentines Day", and then in the email I sent to him this morning I said it again, he didn't say it back, not once, oh well, didn't expect him too .... DD14 got into my scrapbook supplies at some point and made me a really nice card and signed it "we all love you" such a sweety, and I know she either already had done it when dad said to do it or she would have even if he didn't say to, because that's just the way she is. Such a sweety OMG can't believe I didn't ask her is she got anything from the guy she bought candy for,,,, oh bad mom, only thinking about her self shoot!! Tomorrow, first thing, I'll find out. geesh. well she wasn't in a bad mood, so that tells me her day went well.
Lucky I decided not to take his Valentines gift and drop it at his work last night, jerk took the night off, so he could do overtime today! And didn't bother to tell me!! grrrrr!!! I know should expect no less than that, but why does he just keep piling it higher and higher, soon the shi* will be as tall as the snow banks out here!
yep, read his post on her thread, don't like it though, I want to expect good things darn it!!
I HATE fridays!!! Anyway I'm being dragged out of the house, kicking and screaming ;-) I'm sure I'll enjoy myself, WH agreed to pick up son later so I could go out.
I don't like weekends, the weeks seem to fly by to fast nowadays!!
you all behave yourselfs on this board and don't let me fall off the first page while I'm out ;-p
My point was that this is what you need to expect when dealing with a WS. You have to expect that you will be stood up, stomped on and chewed up and spit out. Plan A is really hard stuff. You have to keep your Taker under lock and key and do everything within your power to try to make your WH's feelings for you stronger than for OW. At the same time, you have to establish that you aren't going to simply allow him to have his OW and keep you for when he gets tired of her.
Assuming he is truly fogged out and claiming he wants to leave you for her, you have to do things that are to your advantage and to her detriment and avoid the antithesis.
If he is trying to keep you and at the same time trying to keep her in the loop as well, then you need to work harder at establishing what you will and will not tolerate.
The thing is, you have to do whatever you are going to do with an intensity that will exhaust you in a matter of weeks. You have to give it 110%, but you can only do that when you know how long you will have to keep it up. When the day comes that you are on the verge of losing all respect and love for him, you need to have all your own stuff together enough to pull the trigger on Plan B so you can stop the pain and the constant bleeding from your own love bank.
The other way of course, is to let him have his fun, keep him interested and wait for him to tire of OW and come home to what he knows he can't lose. The biggest problem with that strategy, is it will almost ensure that the same thing will happen again.
The other problem with this strategy is that it also leaves you totally vulnerable to any guy who comes along and doesn't act like an a$$.
Mark, I didn't mean that I hated your post on n2f's thread, I was being sarcastic... you know I'd rather not expect bad things, wish life was better and I could only expect good things ;-) I copied the post and printed it to read over and over when I do start having those darn expectations!
N2F deep breaths! no WH will win father of the year, we all know that! Jerks!!! ;-)
So did some catching up with friends, had a couple glasses of wine ;-) WH texted said I hope you're having fun. I reminded him his gift was at the house, when he picked up and dropped off son, to get it. He did and then he texted. "Thanks for the gift. You and I both know I don't deserve it. Becareful there are still icy spots on the roads." So... all the gift was- some candy he likes and a card I made that could, if he wanted to keep it, fit in his wallet... probably won't- anyway it said something about the path he was on and i was praying it came back to me someday soon and that the rocking chair on my porch when I'm 80 will either have him in it or no one ;-)
Actually in an ok mood for it being the weekend... working on my craft room and getting ready to take girlys shoppin'
Hang in there all BSs!! We all have happieness & 'serenity' ahead! And to FBSs, thanks for your continued support, 2x4s, suggestions, instructions etc.
Hang in there all BSs!! We all have happieness & 'serenity' ahead! And to FBSs, thanks for your continued support, 2x4s, suggestions, instructions etc.
ok, so we're home, I'm bummin' missing dh. Not sure when I'll see him today, wasn't here when he picked up son to spend some time with him, cause I was out with daughters. it was an ok time, always hard 'cause 14yo thinks money grows on trees, as usual. we did all end up with some cute tops though. hehehe good thing is she's my size now ;-) I can borrow her clothes ;-) usually she wouldn't dare wear moms, but I've caught her with a couple of my tops! I got some cute/sexy pjs, hopefully I'll get to wear them for a certain somebody in the near future, if not i'll wear them for myself anyway!
ok... i really, really am going to do some "fun" reading!!
Not, was just thinking... instead of reading... I wish I had a list I could work on... no I don't wish to be in your shoes... but WH has said all along it's not your fault, it's mine, I haven't been happy for quite some time I just didn't know how to tell you, you didn't do anything wrong, blah, blah, blah... Yeah right! is what I think. I know I'm not perfect, but darn it, for some reason I can't think of things that I should be working on!
I like a drink every now and again... have a cabnet FILLED with all sorts of alcohols... bartended for awhile and know how to mix a few good drinks... but if that was one of WHs requests I would definately consider giving it up. Maybe give it up for a "season" and if things don't go as planned and you don't recover you could go back to having your alcohol. anyway... it was just a though.
Now I'm not vain, but help me out here everyone... what could/should I be working on???
The lists have been very theraputic. I gets my feelings out there. What can I say??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />....I've kind of moved on to writing WS letters though...not ones that he will get though (maybe one day....way after recovery....but then again probably not, why bring up past hurts???). This was suggested to me from the beginning, but they tended to be long winded and I rambled on. Now that I am more focused, the letter writing seems to be going better. It is more like journaling, but in letter form addressed to him.
I wrote him a lot of letters when we were dating. Maybe I should do that again??? I did write him one on Vday (which I was quite proud of.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).
So what kind of list are you looking for??? Mine were mostly "angry" lists. But like I said, it helped my organize my thoughts and emotions.
yes, my WH got me a bottle of wine for Vday, but what I was mentioning was, didn't your WH want you to give up alcohol? He has other things he wants you to do right? My WH doesn't want anything from me... just leave him alone... I wish I had a list of things to work on, to show him that I was changing for the better, but he doesn't want me. I think I'm finally contemplating at least talking to a lawyer... they're in it for the bucks, but I'd like to pick his/her brain... see if there isn't some "reason" WH is doing things the way he is?
thinking about this whole mess this afternoon made me mad. You can preach all you want to your kids, but they learn what they live and at their age they aren't ever going to forget what he's done... adultry! action speak louder than words, it'll always be a part of them and I hate that!
Yes, I figured that was why you mentioned it. I am lucky in that yes I have a list (I thought that list was starting to make you and TMTS mad???... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I got the list 4 yrs ago. Actually it was a letter, but he took the things that were bothering him and put it in list form. Made it easier to see each point. According to him the list hasn't changed all that much. As far as him adding the little things, I really think its just a test for him to see what I will do. He has acknowledged that some things are negotiable.
Oh,,,,I DO think your WS want you. He wants you to leave him alone, but you and I and everyone else on here notices how he can't leave YOU alone... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.
So are you saying you are not sure what his EN's are??? See for me, WS didn't know what EN's were when he wrote that. It was just some specific things he wanted me to change, with some ways to do it. Basically, I could take those, figure out which EN's those applied to, and do it. It also REALLY helps me, because I don't have to figure out how to meet the EN's. His given me specific instructions on what he is looking for.
I guess I am lucky in this sense. I don't have to go about this like a fish out of water....
but what I was mentioning was, didn't your WH want you to give up alcohol? He has other things he wants you to do right? My WH doesn't want anything from me... just leave him alone...
And this is part of my logic in thinking your husband's affair is over.
SS, Sorry for the tj.
You're right about the kids, BTW. More is caught than taught...
don't like how i'm feeling today. I just want this crap to stop. I want him home where he belongs. I'm feeling no support from ANYONE in our life. Yes we live in his part of the states. I'm sure if I had family here they'd be very supportive. Why does it feel like everyone around here is just blinded by his disgusting actions!?
I found our "lists" that we made for each other at the beginning of summer when he came home... but now I can't do any of that because he isn't here!
for you to be more open with your feelings. for you to make breakfast more often. for you to be more sensual/sexual for you to dress more sexy sometimes for you to come onto me sometimes... not all the time... tell me a fantasy.. that we can try to make come true... make sure the kids clean up better. think of me with little things.. when you are out TOUCH ME MORE!!! tell me you love me... when it's not expected try (hard) to have a meal together EVERY day... a meal.. doesn't have to be dinner. watch tv together. act foolish once in awhile.... keep it light
What would be the harm in sending this letter to OW? considering exposure on her isn't possible, she's single and no one to expose to, she does have two younger girls.
To OW, If I don’t say anything, you go on living/thinking I don’t care, well I DO!! And so do our kids.
You knew he was married all along. I was sick and not meeting his needs, somehow you managed to do that and then when he did want to come home, you wouldn’t let go.
You have no clue as to how you hurt our family, our family has been torn apart by your illicit relationship with MY husband.
Have you considered what type of man you are now involved with? Sixteen years ago he stood in the presence of his family and friends and swore that he would be faithful to me until in death we parted. With your "help" he has since betrayed those vows. How can you be so infatuated with a man who is willing to break such a vow? How can you spend time with a man whom you know cannot be trusted? Do you think you are so special that he will never lie to you?
Because you are willing to spend time with MORE THAN ONE married man, then it is safe to assume that you might also be carrying an STD. Men can test positive yet still transmit it.
Can you imagine how deeply hurt our kids are when he fails to show up? Is your need for male companionship so strong that you are willing to destroy innocent lives to get what you need? How could you be in love with a man who is willing to allow his children to suffer so he can spend time with you? I wish you could see their tears as they try to understand why their dad is no longer living at home. They didn't ask for this and don't deserve it.
How would you feel if you were married and some woman took your husband away from you? Would you not feel betrayed? Would you not consider "the other woman" to be a tramp, one step above a common ******? This is exactly how people look at you right now.
It angers me that you can be so selfish and try to destroy something that does not belong to you.
You need to break off your relationship with Dana! I have no idea how a woman can live with herself knowing she has broken up a relationship between two other people.
SS
I would mail it to her house and not expect any sort of response from her, just maybe plant a seed or two in her pighead.
The OW doesn't care about you or your kids. That is the only problem. All the letter will do is let her feel she has more power in your marriage. Better to ignore her.
for you to be more open with your feelings. for you to make breakfast more often. for you to be more sensual/sexual for you to dress more sexy sometimes for you to come onto me sometimes... not all the time... tell me a fantasy.. that we can try to make come true... make sure the kids clean up better. think of me with little things.. when you are out TOUCH ME MORE!!! tell me you love me... when it's not expected try (hard) to have a meal together EVERY day... a meal.. doesn't have to be dinner. watch tv together. act foolish once in awhile.... keep it light
Ok Serenity....here we go..
on the first on...looks like he is looking for openness..and as you can see you are even having a hard time being open and honest about your feeling about his A...the key is not to do it with a LB attached to it (this is my MAJOR problem as well....). I wish I could give you some advice on how to solve this, hopefully some VET can help you with this...
lets see...lets group the breakfast and the meal into one grouping....do you NOT like to cook??? Actually, it sounds like he is looking for a recreational partner on this one or some quality time. I say that because in the second one he stated...lets have one meal TOGETHER... together being the key word...Now I know you have invited him to dinner on multiple occasions, keep that up. Why don't you try a new recipe? What his favorite food??? I have tons of good recipes, so I can help you in this area...Is he especially fond of breakfast food?? If so, I posted a good french toast recipe on the GODDESS thread. and you know there is nothing wrong with having breakfast for dinner.
Ok..now for the SF part...and man, does he have a lot of it....
Now I am of the mind you should NOT be having relations right now, and I posted why on your other thread...So how can we work on this without actually doing the deed???
Easy...when he comes over for one of your dinners, look a little sexy. Now I am not talking trampy dress with B's "special" shoes. You could wear some nice form-fitting jeans with a button down shirt, have an extra button undone. Or better yet, wear a cammi underneath it and leave it unbuttoned even more. Also, you could touch him in a understated yet "sexy" way. Say he is sitting down, you are up getting something or another, and one of the kiddies ask for the salt. You could lean across the table to pass it, making sure you brush him along the way...or when he comes in the door, get his coat and help dust the snow lightly off of his shoulder or head. Come on, you remember the moves...Oh yeah, here's a trick I've been doing...I've actually been making sure my A$$ is wiggling a little bit (don't want to be too obvious... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) when I am walking, especially when he is behind me. I have seen that he has noticed that. Also, make sure you SMELL good. Dab a little of your perfume behind your ears and your cleavage...and DON'T forget the hair. There are lots of ways for us women to be sexual/sensual without actually having to do the deed.
As far as telling him a fantasy....write it in a letter. You could start it out as "I had a dream about you last night..." or "when I think of you and our future together, I dream/fantasize about....". I'll let you in on a little secret. When I wrote WS Vday letter it was all about my dreams for us. I started it out as remembering our past Vdays, our present one, and my dreams about the future one. One of the things I put in there was...I dream about being wrapped in your arms, showing and telling you how much I love you and how much you mean to me.... I know that letter had a MAJOR effect on him, and especially that line. Now, I do truly feel that way, so it wasn't a manipulative ploy, but you need to include some sexual content, even pg stuff....
and the act foolishly...sounds like he wants to have some fun with you. For you not to be so serious all the time (are you). Especially, not bringing up A and OP all the time. I think he would like to forget it, and I know that you can't, but it can't be all you two have in common. I know when I cracked a few jokes the other night, he really liked it.
Ok...any questions????? There are lots you can do on this list, even if he is not living with you. Just as I can. You and I are in the same boat when it comes to this....and Serenity....nobody is blinded by his actions. Sound like they don't want to be involved, because you know how well that helps.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (my in-laws are the same way...they support me, do not like what he has done, but lets not about it, then it might go away or maybe it never happened.,.,,, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />))
Put on the special shoes and look like a tramp. Then cook him breakfast.
LMAO.....ahhahhhahahahhahahah....can she borrow yours????
Well, that may work for her WS though, that may be his type. My WS would not like it. He's not an over-the-top type of guy. He likes his sensuality to be a little understated....you know, like you see it but it ain't glaring at you from the street corner.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, but Serenities WS may like it a little more out there. Tell us Serenity, what does he like????
He's a more classy/consevative kind of guy...repeated this to me the other day when we were out shopping for Vday stuff for the kids...
wow not2, you're great! I don't care to cook, because I don't care to eat ;-) And he's a big time eater! I'll keep inviting him. But even when we had plans to have one of his favorite meals he cancelled!
I did end up buy f-me heels this summer after he gave me that list and basically that's all they ended up being used for. I've never been one to walk around in them, but I am thinking of getting a more conservative pair and practice so I can wear them out and about.
I guess all along I've been the more conservative type, the more I've started learning about him he's more into trashieness or hot/sexy are probably a better word... which is kind of funny considering OW outweighs me by like at least 60 pounds.
yeah about the SF he'd do it all day everyday and probably out in public if he could get away with it.
oh he's not blind to it...and I think he is attacted to it in a male sense, but it is more of a fleeting reaction for him. To get his juices flowing and KEEP em flowing her prefers the other....
I will say he does like the trashy stuff in the bedroom though... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />...more of a save-it-all-for-me kind of guy.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Anything to help you get you H back. And you don't have to eat to like to cook. I like to cook, I just hate cleaning the mess up.
And yes, you need to practice walking in heels. I am lucky in that since I am only 5'3" I can do it because I have always had to wear them.
and just so you know,,,you can be conservative and alluring at the same time.....
anywho, just wanted to give you some tips to work with. I know how daunting it all seems and you think and what do I do with this, but once you really think about it, the idea's will start flowing.
OH I KNOW....that can be your list....things you can do/work on to fullfill this wish list....
not2fun
ps...like I said if you need any recipes, just holla....got a whole notebook full of them....does he like baked goods????
believer, no she doesn't look too trashy, but she's definately not hot! I really do think sometimes it's the "i'll save you" thing he has going with her... oh poor miserable her! wah! ugh, I just hope her other man shows up and WH catches her! I wish I knew who OM was. I just know that there was another one, just before A and during this summer when WH came home.
ok...so bake him some cookies or banana bread that you could send with him...yes ignore the fact warhog might share in them...you are doing this for him.....
what is is favorite foods??? I want SPECIFICS girl,,,not all foods... you want some good recipes..I am all about it...
I can vouch for that. We just finished going over our ENs with Jenifer and my #1 was admiration. We are simple creatures, we just want to make you happy, all we ask in return is that you notice.
ok, but what is there to admire in a man who sees his kids for a few minutes here and there, sleeps with a warthog, and is thus being extremely cruel?
hmmm that's a hard question Not, he loves the mexican food I make, so I don't need recipes for that... he loves brownies, pumpkin bread, peanutbutter cookies (I can't stand the smell of baking peanutbutter)
Serenity - There was a post about admiration several years ago. Honora posted it. I was like you - what was there to admire? I even argued here about it. But, she was right. You can bet the OW is finding something to admire.
We are simple creatures, we just want to make you happy, all we ask in return is that you notice.
TMTS... you sound like my husband...unfortunately his opinion of what makes me happy and what I KNOW makes me happy are two different things. Doesn't mean I appreciate what he does, just that its not what I need to be COMPLETELY happy...
((((Serenity)))))
How's the list coming???? What's the game plan for you????
and on a lighter note.....how's the "fun" book coming???
hmmmm...how do you dress for work?? What were you wearing today????
Because to me that sounds like he is conflicted because you look so dang good, it makes him realize what he is missing. Also, I am not exactly the wording for you to use, but I would let him know that this is YOUR house, you can can come and go as you please...but do this in a non-LBing way....Remember YOU are in control.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
but yes what a jerk/// <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
ugh... figured it out... decided to check email, and warthog doesn't like him coming over here when I'm home! ick!!! I hate reading his email to her and hers to him, but I wanted to see where things stood... a couple weeks ago she lost it and got all emotional because he still has most of his stuff here at the house he promised her within the next week he'd get it well... guess what he hasn't, just a few more clothes. i'm shaking so bad right now.
calm down....it'll be ok...So now you know the reason, Like I said YOU are in control, not him, and definately NOT HER. Rename your thread so VETS can get on here fast. Call out Mel, Mimi and Mark....they can help you with your reply...
I hate reading his email... it makes me anxious, I'm shaking and I feel like being sick!! first she had a problem because he wasn't moving his stuff out of his "ex-house" fast enough, now she would rather he visit his kids when I'm not here! UGH!!!! she also mentioned something about little steps towards D, which ;-( he hasn't said anything to me about, but I'm sure that's what his plan is.
See this is the MAIN reason I don't want to install the spyware stuff. I would have the same physical reactions to it. A few days after DDay, I broke into WS office and got onto his computer, the whole episode did nothing for me except make me sick as heck and hated myself to death for even doing it....
This is another BS side effect of what their A's have caused...just ticks me off ya know....
What is that stuff called? Patchouli? One of the female engineers wears that to our production meetings, and the guys always comment, it smells up the whole building.
Next time he comes over, put on some cheap smelly perfume and see if you can rub it all over him.
LOL....
I used to work with a girl who would wear the most obnoxios perfume... I would get in the elevator 20 minutes after she was in it and I could still smell her perfume... I used to call it....
SLUT JUICE...LOL....
get some of that.... OW will get pissed everytime he leaves your house...She'll be the one LB'ing him....
holy crap, people, your snooping gives you special insight into their internal problems and helps you fight! You are at WAR. Knowledge is power. Don't allow some temporary hurt feelings leave you vulnerable for MORE SERIOUS HURT when you give up this method of protection. Sure, it hurts to read it, but if it can HELP you in some strategic way, it is VALUABLE. I can think of several ways to take advantage of that intel, SS, so it seems valuable to me.
On the other hand, if it is not helpful, I would avoid reading it and only do so when you think something is going on you need to know. [but some of you folks do not know if its helpful or not, so come here and ask the first few times]
But having a spy in the enemy camp can be a VALUABLE ASSET, so buck up and take it if the intel is valuable!
SS, now you know the OW is SCARED OF YOU and his visits are a THREAT to her. So when he comes to visit the kids, be sure and look as sexy as you can and DELAY HIM! Maybe even have his favorite meal cooking. [hopefully you are not in plan B, if so, ignore that advice!]
You have new intel that can help you in your BATTLE PLAN! Carry on, Mimi!
She can't ever really have him until you let him go.
Even if you do let him go she will forever have to share him with you because of the kids.
She's in a no win situation and it scares the [censored] out of her.
He says: OW doesn't want you here when I visit the kids.
You say: This is our home, I'm not going anywhere.
He says: She doesn't like the thought of sharing me with anyone.
You say: She should get her own husband.
He babbles.
You reverse babble.
You take every opportunity to deliver your message without love busting.
The message should always be the same message: You are MY husband and I will fight in any way I can to keep our family together.
He says: I'm tired of living like this.
You say: Me too.
He says: This is making me unhappy.
You say: Me too.
Don't try to convince him, just tell him that you want your family to remain intact.
He says: OW doesn't like me seeing you so much.
You say: You are MY husband and I am entitled to see you. She is the usurper in this, not me.
But then you need to leave the conversation and let it drop. Let it lay there like the stinking mess it is. Let him smell it. You don't have to.
Accept no blame for her love busting. It is her problem.
And always remember that he has a history with you that she can't undo or take away. It will be there forever no matter what else happens. You had him first. Every time he sees you, it eats away at her love bank. It is a love buster to her for him to even be in the same room with you. Make that work for you.
Not2,
Knowing the truth is not what causes those feelings. It is what you found out, not the knowing. You have lost something that you can never replace...unwarranted blind trust. You believed it could never happen. You had faith that he would be ever faithful because of a fantasy that wasn't real.
Truth is what will set you free from the pain. The pain was because of the lies, not because of the truth. Knowing when something is true by being able to verify it for yourself gives YOU the power over your own life.
Letting the lie remain because the pain of finding out it wasn't really true after all will keep you a slave to the pain forever...even if he comes back...
I know the pain of finding out the truth. I saw a phone number, with hundreds of calls to it in a short time and looked it up. I knew who it was as soon as I verified the name. I knew him. I knew where he lived and I knew his story.
I looked for more and found it. More pain followed, but not for knowing the truth, because of the lies. Letting her know that I knew the truth was the beginning of the end for him because once the truth was in the open, the lies were doomed.
He can't lie to you when you already know the truth...The lie has no power over you once the truth is out.
That's the piece YOU are missing in this. It is the truth that will save your marriage, not ignoring the lies...
SS,
Hang in there. You are still in charge and still in a position of power because she is the usurper. Even if he ends up with her, she will forever be the usurper. When he is with you, you are still his wife.
When he is with her...YOU are still his wife...She can't change that without your letting him go...
1. first she had a problem because he wasn't moving his stuff out of his "ex-house" fast enough,
2. now she would rather he visit his kids when I'm not here! UGH!!!!
3. she also mentioned something about little steps towards D, which ;
hmmmmmmmm, is that LOVEBUSTING [selfish demands] I hear??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> UT OH, bad lovebusting will ruin the FANTASY!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> And when the fantasy explodes, there will be nothing left except dishonesty, selfishness, entitlement; all the very worst traits, to bolster the affair. This DOES NOT LOOK GOOD, PEOPLE!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
He says: OW doesn't want you here when I visit the kids.
Great post, Mark! I thought of a way to turn this against the OW and come out looking like a rose. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
He says: OW doesn't want you here when I visit the kids.
SS: I am so sorry she is putting that kind of pressure on you. That must be very upsetting to you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
yes, i'm reading between the tears.. you are all so wonderful!!
what really, really pisses me off is the thought that she thinks MY kids will eventually spend time in her house! AAAHHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! How in the world can I keep that from happening?? They are 16, 14, & 13.
I now know her email address too... but from the sounds of her emails she doesn't like me, (she doesn't even know me!!) so my heartfelt letter I wanted to send would probably be a waste.
Honestly though I don't know how knowing all of this really helps. Yes I can look and smell hot when he comes around, but now I'm in such a pity party state, maybe I won't want him back... I just don't want her to have him either, and I surely don't want my kids going over to the homewreckers house!!
SS - Your plan is working, so don't have a pity party. Your kids are old enough that they won't want to be around her. And their is NOTHING like resentful teenagers - I raised 8 of them.
You need to keep doing what you are doing and give her lots of time and reasons to lovebust.
All most ALL OW think that the married man is going to divorce and marry them. Almost all of the married men end up with their wife and family.
what really, really pisses me off is the thought that she thinks MY kids will eventually spend time in her house! AAAHHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! How in the world can I keep that from happening?? They are 16, 14, & 13.
LOL..that's her littly pretense for your WH's benefit..
He wouldn't dare...
She should be SCARED of those teenagers...they don't have to go at their age..tell them you don't want them to go...won't allow them to go..CASE CLOSED...
Quote
... but from the sounds of her emails she doesn't like me, (she doesn't even know me!!) so my heartfelt letter I wanted to send would probably be a waste.
She is your ENEMY, Serenity...of course, she doesn't like you..she knows who you are alright...
She clearly is trying to DESTROY you and YOUR FAMILY...
That's why you have to use all of your AMMUNITION to fight her and evidently she is LOSING...
what really, really pisses me off is the thought that she thinks MY kids will eventually spend time in her house! AAAHHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! How in the world can I keep that from happening?? They are 16, 14, & 13.
She will be eternally HATED by your children for breaking up their family. How do your children feel about her?
You can ask the judge to specify in his order that the kids not be exposed to the affair. Outside of that, I would not allow the kids around her unless there is a court order and a sheriff with a BIG GUN. I dn't know what your situation is, but I would resist any attempt to drag your kids into his sleazy affair becuase a wayward will try and use the kids to NORMALIZE his affair. It also trains kids to grow up morally confused. It is often a SHOCK to a WS when the BS objects to bringing the kids around because they are so sleazy. It is a great wake up call!
So, if your H wants to bring the kids around the OW, tell him that you don't think it is in the childrens best interest to be exposed to his adultery partner because it will cause moral confusion.
Quote
I now know her email address too... but from the sounds of her emails she doesn't like me, (she doesn't even know me!!)
A compliment. If she LIKED you, that would be a problem.
Quote
so my heartfelt letter I wanted to send would probably be a waste.
Oh God yes. Don't throw pearls before SWINE. She is a PIG, don't share your heart with PIGS.
Quote
Honestly though I don't know how knowing all of this really helps.
Then you need our help, SS. And that is ok, but knowing this is GOOD, because it helps you see the vulnerabilities in the affair. When you know where the weak spots are located, it is much easier to puncture the balloon. Let Mimi and the others here teach you how to use this intel to your advantage.
Quote
Yes I can look and smell hot when he comes around, but now I'm in such a pity party state,
Well, you don't have time for PITY, you are AT WAR!
Be strong... I know it hurts... but you have to be strong...
Get yer boo hoo's out of the way... you need to have a good cry...
Then get back up on the saddle and fight the good fight…
You do that by not letting them know you’re hurting. (And by putting the slut juice panties in his glove box)…..LOL
Make her feel uncomfortable for a change… You need to make her crazy every time he comes to the house… She’ll start ripping on him for visiting his kids… I’ll bet that’ll go over like a fart in church….lol
I can't say how much I appreciate all this wonderful support. Geesh, if you guys could meet my real H, not the fogged out WH, you'd like him. He is a good guy and right now he's feeling like crap! ;-)
The emails they sent back and forth just real hurt, oh i love you, oh i'm so happy with you, oh i can't wait to spend the rest of our lives together. ACK!
The emails they sent back and forth just real hurt, oh i love you, oh i'm so happy with you, oh i can't wait to spend the rest of our lives together. ACK!
And don't forget the LOVEBUSTING!! All this lovebusting is draining da ole lovebank fast! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
1. first she had a problem because he wasn't moving his stuff out of his "ex-house" fast enough,
2. now she would rather he visit his kids when I'm not here! UGH!!!!
3. she also mentioned something about little steps towards D, which
The emails they sent back and forth just real hurt, oh i love you, oh i'm so happy with you, oh i can't wait to spend the rest of our lives together. ACK!
STANDARD BS..means nothing..I'm sure my WH and his OW wrote the same kind of crap...
Her "SOUL MATE" (what she called him) is right here with me...
My H left all his condo furniture with ME and all of his clothes and I found out that she used to BEG him for the furniture..I moved it right over into this house...when they went to the condo, after the false recovery, they had to sit on the floor..LOL..STANDARD AFFAIR STUFF, SS...
I'm sorry that you had to read it though but it's GREAT that you got that info..
The emails they sent back and forth just real hurt, oh i love you, oh i'm so happy with you, oh i can't wait to spend the rest of our lives together.
Prepubescent fantasy fog babble. Don't pay any attention to that... pay attention to his actions... and when you read his emails you're looking for a weak spot in the affair... Not the love crap... just like mel said...
The next thing you know she'll be saying "I love you to infinity and beyond"... Toy story how romantic...
Thats even worse than Prepubescent fantasy fog babble.... Elementary school fantasy fog babble?
Too bad some anonymous person could not send the OW this:
"1. How often (percentage-wise) do As end? Is 97% correct?
My experience, and the experience of other professionals is that about 95% of all affairs either end by one person deciding to end it, or that it dies a natural death. Of the five percent that end in marriage, about 70% of those end in divorce.
There are a host of reasons that romantic relationships that start with an affair are so fragile, but the main reason is that they are based on deceit, thoughtlessness, and dishonesty. Those characteristics eventually find themselves permeating the affair itself. They eventually find themselves being deceitful, thoughtless, and dishonest toward each other."
Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr, psychologist and reknowned expert in infidelity. Author and founder of Marriage Builders
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> The future does not LOOK BRIGHT FOR THE OW!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I fear disappointment may be her lot in life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
oh goody....Serenity your back....did you write back to him yet??? what did you say????
OK, here's a question, how the heck does a BS read those emails, and not go to WS and not LB?? I mean how the heck does one cool down??? Just preparing guys.....
OK, here's a question, how the heck does a BS read those emails, and not go to WS and not LB?? I mean how the heck does one cool down??? Just preparing guys.....
Boy, are they right SS. This bodes very, very well for you! Now you know your power over this! See what snooping can do? It doesn't mean you are following him or reading every email or revolving your life around it, just getting enough knowledge to fight the war. (SS-I'm NOT talking 2 you here!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />)
When he brings it up again (and I would ignore it till he does) use Mel's line. Sneak up to your room right before he leaves and spray the perfume so it's nice and wet and fresh right in the middle of your chest and then give him a BIG HUG (so good, B!)...the kiss in the middle of the forehead (or on the cheek) was priceless, too, Amazin (I busted a GUT over the slut juice panties!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) Tell him you love him and you'll see him next time he comes to see the kids....
Hehehehe...let the warthog start wallowing in the mud!!
amazin... love the email addresses, only problem, if they ONLY use these emails for each other they'd figure out I knew his password.
Not2, i don't remember lol, i'd have to go back and read it, but there wasn't a hint of LBs to be found and I know i made him feel bad, we're on chatting now, of course no talk about anything important.
It doesn't matter if he tells you or not... you know it... take advantage of it...
Keep him at your house as long as you can when he comes to visit... you know she's already in-secure about him being there with you... so turn the heat up and make her stress some more... perfume... lipstick... panties...
If you do it right she'll be riding his butt the moment she sees him...Let her LB on him... He wont like it...
Then a week later when she opens his glove box... it's gonna start all over again....
I guess i'm just a fu** up... I don't want to hurt you, I'm not tryign to hurt you deliberatly. I'm not really sure what you want from me. Other than me coming back... I guess the truth is i don't see me coming back. I think that having dinner together is nice.... but I think it's giving you false hope. I know I've made mistakes a plenty and I realize that you consider what I'm doing a mistake.
i'm sure this has been covered before in Alien babble 101 but when can you believe what they say... some of the things he says to me in emails are (at least to me) heart felt... do I just go with the belief that anything he says right now is babble??
i'm sure this has been covered before in Alien babble 101 but when can you believe what they say... some of the things he says to me in emails are (at least to me) heart felt... do I just go with the belief that anything he says right now is babble??
You can believe EVERYTHING he says! He means it with all his heart. All of his falling down drunken heart. He is a falling down drunk. His "heart" will be different once the source of his intoxication is gone. And it will be gone....The OW's days are numbered.
I guess i'm just a fu** up... I don't want to hurt you, I'm not tryign to hurt you deliberatly. I'm not really sure what you want from me. Other than me coming back... I guess the truth is i don't see me coming back. I think that having dinner together is nice.... but I think it's giving you false hope. I know I've made mistakes a plenty and I realize that you consider what I'm doing a mistake.
OMG....is he kidding me???? He wants you to soothe the pain of what he is doing...awwww,poor poor me.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Cry me a freakin river....
also, you've been around enough to see this as the babble that it is......
((((Serenity))))) ....Don't let it get you down honey...I think everyone's right about OPwarthog, and I think that you need to Plan A your butt off, and start prepping for Plan B. No more cake-eating. I think it will totally throw him for a loop.
Not wanting to give you false hope my a$$. If he was so worried about that he wouldn't be communicating with you right now...jeezzz
Isn't it funny how you can see the WS crap in other's WS but not your own....guilty as charged over here....
Sorry. You can't REALLY believe. KNOW and ACCEPT that he is probably playing you, working on a scheme..prolly wants you to AGREE to a FRIENDLY divorce...YUCK...this is where the email info. comes in handy...He's telling her how he is working on things with you...he's want to PLAY NICE GUY...
Take a pix of yourself using his cell phone - put it as his wallpaper
he'd see it before her, he's VERY private with his cell phone. i think he sleeps with it and deletes calls and texts right after he reads or sends them.
You want to give him the message that YOU BELIEVE IN HIS CAPACITY to end his affair and to come home...so when he says stuff like "I don't see myself coming home"..you can say: "I see you coming home"...speak your truth...
"I guess i'm just a fu** up... I don't want to hurt you, I'm not tryign to hurt you deliberatly. I'm not really sure what you want from me. Other than me coming back... I guess the truth is i don't see me coming back. I think that having dinner together is nice.... but I think it's giving you false hope. I know I've made mistakes a plenty and I realize that you consider what I'm doing a mistake."
Tell him he has always been a good man and you believe in him. Ask him if he thought about the future wouldn't he want an intact family, to be their for his kids........
Tell him you want dinner with him with no strings attached.
If you can manage it, text him one of your fantasies. Or make one up.
he'd see it before her, he's VERY private with his cell phone. i think he sleeps with it and deletes calls and texts right after he reads or sends them.
HELLO... ANYBODY THERE... HE'S SUPPOSED TO SEE IT... THAT'S THE POINT...
When was the last time he saw them?
It's a "hey remember these" It's supposed to get him all hot and bothered for you...
If he doesn't let her see it... no big deal... If she does... then that's just icing on the cake...
You dont even have to take the picture with his phone... take it with your phone and send it to him...With a sexy note...
"Hi honey, remember these... they're lonely and they miss your touch."
LIGHT HIS FIRE AND LEAVE MARKS LIKE PEPPER SAID...
And just so ya know... every man wants Betty Crocker in the Kitchen and a Playboy Playmate in the bedroom... Start pushing both those buttons and see what happens...
I think I am going to take some notes on these suggestions...picts. by phone...uhmmmmm...now there's an idea... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Well, it looks like you had some great suggestions here. Whatcha gonna do with this wealth of information?????
Anyway, I hope you are doing better by now and are able to get some sleep. I myself am headed that way, back to work tomorrow. OH, I missed WS call tonight...oh well, maybe he'll think I am pulling away...he seems to come running back when I do that. and no, I didn't miss it on purpose Mimi.....
not2, i've been takin' notes all evening... so much for that "fun" book, I couldn't get into it much the past few days... maybe soon, maybe not. too much drama!!
He is still married to you. OW can't undo that. He babbles. You reverse babble. You take every opportunity to deliver your message without love busting. The message should always be the same message: You are MY husband and I will fight in any way I can to keep our family together.
Mark, Thank you for posting to me...
I wish I could recognize babble so I could babble back, but we don't talk about her, the affair or even our marriage. I'm afraid to bring it up for fear of what he'll say he really wants to do, file for D.
I really wish there was something more active I could do to make the A end... I know I can't. Exposure's been done that could be done.
being still...? I guess ;-) He did say he would take the kids somewhere wednesday afternoon and come back for dinner. He's changed his mind in the past, but I'll hope for the best I guess.
He did say he would take the kids somewhere wednesday afternoon and come back for dinner. He's changed his mind in the past, but I'll hope for the best I guess.
There's your opportunity to make OW even more insecure and push his betty crocker playmate buttons at the same time.... Why don't you suggest doing something together with the kids... Try not to let him go alone... then have a good dinner together...
Take advantage of your information... you know OW stresses every time he's with you... Put on your Wonder Woman costume and make her squirm...
Just keep thinking... Betty Crocker in the Kitchen... Playboy bunny in the bedroom...
Now start planning on how you're gonna push his buttons and make OW super in-secure...
You hanging in there OK? You seem to be a little more up and down than usual.
The whole she doesn’t want you around when he visits is great news. She's sees you as competition, so she doesn’t trust his undying love for her.
I'm not abandoning my supporters, you where there for me so expect me to check in on you as well. I feel that you and not are so close now... just keep up what you're doing.
LOL... so we chatted for 1 1/2 hours (he's at work) then he had to get offline and came back on... and now I've really got him going :-) talk about SF and not having to touch him!!! I made up a dream and he's lovin' it. Shame on me. I really am going to have to think/pray long and hard about this... I don't imagine this is the way I want to live my life. Perhaps its a phase and he'll be over it soon, I don't know.
See... now you got him going... he's fantasizing about you right now… What a good time to send him that picture… Just a little something for him to remember your talk about SF…
You don't see how close you are do you. Warthog is probably making his life a real he!! Right now and you're being sweet as pie. Then you start up phone SF with him... he's probably stuck to his seat right now because of the chubby in is pants thinking about you and missing you. As for the picture, don't send it as one picture wearing something trampy. Put on your skimpiest undies, then your most classy looking outfit then send pics of you taking it off bit by bit. By the time you get to the undies, he'll have to leave work... LOL If he’s so in love and close to her why is he spending his time online with you? Ha! Let’s see you spin your way out of that one. LOL
Actually, I'm going to recommend against a bunch of nudie pix. Not intrinsically anything wrong with them, but while he may get off on them, they will not be the final reason to choose SS over the warthog. Yeah, I know, as a guy I 'd love for my wife to do all that stuff for me.
But if I was trying to figure out which woman I wanted to spend my life with forever, it would be the modest wife, not the bedroom ho.
Not saying don't send pictures, I actually liked Pep's idea, but I'm not sure it needs to be turned into a full length porn feature...
You just don't want this to come down to a choice of the one with the worst sense of morality.
Mark you are of course so right... unfortunately (or not?), I've always been on the more modest side, more so than he likes... anyway I guess he's found someone who isn't modest... and actually this "side" of him that I see right now isn't someone I want to live the rest of my life with... pretending, the whole telling him a dream (that I made up) it's actually embarassing to myself now that I look back on it, it's not me! I don't want to pretend I'm somebody I'm not, it feels low and it makes me feel trashy! Like I said earlier, maybe it's a phase and he'll get past it soon. He wasn't always this bad, yes I knew he always wanted more than he got, but it's gone beyond rediculous, I just can't believe it!
way to late/early to be up! I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not addicted to him and need help myself.
Anyway I've decided I really need to talk to a priest and a lawyer... finally. Not because I want a divorce, I'll still fight it as long as possible. I just think I'll be heading to plan B sooner rather than later ;-(
If it's out of character for you to do somegthing like that then it may come across as desperate... But... you can still send him a photo... Not x rated... but still sexxy...
Plan A is about CHANGING, Serenity. It is not BAD or TRASHY to be SEXY for YOUR HUSBAND if that is one of his primary ENs. It is BAD or TRASHY to be that way with a married man and for your H to seek this outside of his marriage. Your H KNOWS the difference and most probably DOES want this CHANGE in YOU. For Mark, SF may not be a primary EN but, maybe like your H, it is for mine who had become turned off by my becoming a "PRUDISH OLD CHURCH WOMAN"..LOL...although I was still young...YUCK..
PLAN A is about YOU stretching outside of your comfort zone to be a DIFFERENT PERSON.
I most definitely am not the person that I used to be...
The way I was wrong...
Pick up the book: THE PROPER CARE AND FEEDING OF HUSBANDS by Dr. Laura..she speaks about this issue more eloquently than I can...
I don't think pictures would be a bad thing at all. I would just be careful that it doesn't become a series that escalates till all self respect is gone.
Actually, I'm going to recommend against a bunch of nudie pix. Not intrinsically anything wrong with them, but while he may get off on them, they will not be the final reason to choose SS over the warthog. Yeah, I know, as a guy I 'd love for my wife to do all that stuff for me.
A BIG reason not to send them IMO is they could fall into the wrong hands. What if OM gets a hold of them and posts them on the web? Or sends them to all her friends making fun of OP. I think a "nice sexy" picture would be good but nothing she wouldn't want the world to see.
I understood what you were saying mimi, and thank you so much. I don't know why I guess it's just insecurity about the bod! Guess it's the way I grew up I don't know.
I wouldn't send pictures to him that I wouldn't want published for the world to see, not that he would do that, but things happen in cyberspace, etc... and if she got ahold of them yeah, that would not be so good.
Anyway thank you! It all goes back to low self-esteem I guess. OH, I do have that book! The kids saw it when it came in the mail this summer and laughed at the title, it was cute! I'll pick it up and look through it.
I was referring to your mindset about the issue of SEXUALITY in your marriage.
And if anybody is getting anxious, I am not encouraging her to do the do NOW. I'm talking about her MINDSET.
It's OK for you to be SEXY, Serenity.
I agree, she should think about ways that she feels comfortable showing her WH how sexy she is and what he is missing! I think flirty text would be good. Start off slow and if he responds then take it up a notch. She should know if he is reseptive if he responds to the first one.
Another idea I had is if she knows she is going to see him she could put on a sexy workout outfit and look SHARP. That shows she is working out and looks good. Give him enough time to get a good look but then say "I have to go work out, I am working on getting a washboard stomache." Then she can touch her tummy and laugh. Just a thought.
It's frankly a balance my wife has never found for herself. Marriage is where that stuff belongs. So many women find it difficult to be sexy for their husbands but when an A begins, turn into sex pots. Then their husbands find out what they did for OM and wonder why she can't be like that for them.
So much of it is simply attitude. Flirting is lost for some reason when the vows are said. Seduction is gone when the kids come along. It doesn't have to be that way, but usually is.
I'm off to a seminar. I'll be back... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I don't know if I've ever posted to you before, but this thread is great.
OW is clearly threatened by you. The whole time my FWH was involved with OW, she was absolutely obsessed with ME. He refused to communicate with her over the weekends and every Monday, she would demand to know what we did over the weekend. Once, he told her that we had a dinner party over the weekend and she had a complete melt down.
She would ask him constantly if we had been intimate and after a point, he simply refused to discuss me with her at all.
She just kept on LBing and LBing and eventually, he started to hate her and ended the affair.
I can see the handwriting on the wall here. OW knows that your WH will always have some kind of relationship with you because of the kids, and she obviously can't deal with the fact like an adult.
She is actually helping you out here without even realizing it.
LOL... so we chatted for 1 1/2 hours (he's at work) then he had to get offline and came back on... and now I've really got him going :-) talk about SF and not having to touch him!!! I made up a dream and he's lovin' it. Shame on me. I really am going to have to think/pray long and hard about this... I don't imagine this is the way I want to live my life. Perhaps its a phase and he'll be over it soon, I don't know.
NO SHAME on you. You are his WIFE. You won't have to live your life like that, remember he's in lala land right now. When he comes back to earth, he'll settle down. But there's nothing wrong with a wife telling her husband about her dreams or fantasies.
What would be really great is if OW is snooping! Too bad you can't cut and paste that IM session into an email to him telling him how much fun you had with him on the IM.
Don't be ashamed of sharing your 'naughty' thoughts with him. You have every right to say sexy things, and to be sexy - he is your husband.
You have no idea how much ground you have gained just in the last few days, but trust me, you're on a winning streak.
This is not a phase for him - it is a mind-numbing insanity that he will someday fight free of.
Also, save that evil email addy, cuz you may want to send a copy of your PBL to her. That is my personal recommendation, and I think it is very powerful. Do not contact her before that.
Such helpful support you are all providing. I thought I'd gotten off the roller coaster, but boy this has been a crazy few days!! I guess I have to keep being reminded that even if he does move ALL of his stuff in over there it doesn't take away the fact that I'm still his wife and that he still loves our kids and won't let anyone stop him from seeing them (at least right now-I pray that doesnt' change).
I like the idea of flirting with him occasionally, I'll keep that until he gets annoyed, which if I know him, will never happen ;-)
Wow, the picture thing really got things going. LOL
You sound much like my DW where your somewhat embarrassed by getting TOO sexy, so I understand where you are coming from.
My point was really to get you to send him stuff to tease him by sending different pictures. You can send him stuff that gives the illusion of sensuality. A close up of a wink, then a pic of you looking over your bear shoulder, one of a leg with you pulling down pantyhose. Very seductive, suggestive with out getting into something you would be uncomfortable with.
Keep it up Soon, you're so close. Let's hope the warthog keeps up her LBing ways.
And just as a side note...ummmmm, since when is it the least bit SHAMEFUL to be erotic and sexy with your SPOUSE!!!!!!!! If there is something you aren't comfortable with, that's one thing, but to feel embarrassed or ashamed or to be CHASTISED for it is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!
The only people in this mix who are shameful: your WH and his hussy warthog. You are his WIFE and are entitled to be as seductive as you damn well please with him. I would stop DEAD short of SF, though...with a flirty little "No, dear, you'll have to give up you girlfriend first!" (said with a seductive smile as you walk away)...
Glad to see the advice kept coming last night... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Uhmm...except for some of the "male" replies from Amazin and TMTS.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />...LMAO....
Seriously though, looks like we need to work on that self-esteem issue (me too, but hey I say its more fun to work on someone else....). Mimi, Lala, and Mark are right. It's one thing to be modest and all, but you have GOT to come out of your shell with you DH (when he returns that is....). What is it you don't like about yourself or body???? Let's address this issue...get you more confidence....you Mojo going...which, if last nights interaction with WS was any indication, you should have a little back.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.
hmmmm...maybe you could "borrow" B's shoes...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.....
anywho, glad to see things and YOU are looking up.....
Darn I forgot all about the "shoes"... when I was telling him that story! LOL oh well next time I'll make sure to use them in the story somehow. I hate to get my hopes up like this... but I'm going to keep on working! Just gotta get him to spend time away from her! It really didn't matter last night, because while we were chattin' he was at work and she was sleeping.
we texted a few times this afternoon and then I called and we chatted for a bit! We'll probably be in contact via computer again tonight.
Self-esteem issues? Who me??? NEVER!!! When I first mentioned him leaving to my Doc, and me willing to take him back, my Doc didn't like that and said I had low self-esteem. Whatever!! Anyway, I'm too thin, I know I need to put on weight, but at the same time I'm rarely if ever hungry. Kids evening activities have really slowed down, so we'll be sitting down for meals together, that might help a bit, though it didn't do much in the past...anyway I've never been one to appreciate my body... enough about my self esteem, what are your esteem problem(s) Not2??
If you are insecure about your own body, it might help.
I once heard this about the male psyche - when a man loves a woman:
They would rather have that live woman in the room, acting sexy and flirty, than pictures or fantasies about a woman not there.
They would rather have you, warm and real, naked against them, than anything else in the world.
What *you* believe or feel to be your physical weaknesses melt away, the moment you become seductive with him. He becomes focused on the positive, the seduction - the flirtation, the idea behind it - and any perceived flaws fade fast.
Remember - YOU, live, in person, warm, naked, against his body - that is what he wants. If he loves you, that is what is on his mind.
for you to be more open with your feelings. for you to be more sensual/sexual for you to dress more sexy sometimes for you to come onto me sometimes... not all the time... tell me a fantasy.. that we can try to make come true.... think of me with little things.. when you are out TOUCH ME MORE!!! tell me you love me... when it's not expected
ss; I copied 8 out of the twelve needs your WS gave you, and 8 out of 12 of these are love/sexual needs, you say these are from awhile ago? If I were you I would really concentrate on these, because it seems your WS has found someone else to fulfill these, even tho he asked you FIRST.
I don't mean for this to be a 2x4, but it is fairly obvious to me that WS needs these things, his TOP needs. I know because these were things my FWS needed from me. Get goin' girl. Loosen up. This can be you. You will become more comfortable, and if you cannot, get thee to a therapist to help you understand why you can't do it. I think these are all really reasonable requests. These are things a spouse can give their partner with no shame.
If you really cannot do this, then maybe you DO need to rethink your marriage, as it is very, very obvious that this is what your WS needs.
And with him liking what you were texting him, he STILL wants YOU to fulfill these needs.
Be wise as a snake and as innocent as a dove. You having those emails may hurt, but use them to your advantage. To wage your WAR, girl.
If you are self conscious, get yourself some sexy clothes - Victoria's Secret or something.
I used to be very modest and a perfectionist too. The house was sparkling clean, I did well at work, took care of the kids, the yard, cooked breakfast, packed lunches, made nice dinners, did the laundry, had a nice garden and yard.
Years ago, my husband told me he was more interested in good and frequent sex, and I could skip all of the rest. That was a real wakeup call.
I'm not going to comment on IF you have self esteem issues or IF you’re insecure about your body. You know yourself better than anyone here.
What I will comment about is from my (the male) perspective.
After my first divorce when I was single and actively looking I went on lots of dates. I wasn’t looking for one night stand stuff; I was looking for a mate. If I dated a girl and she came across as a buck wild slut...that wasn’t an attractive characteristic for a good mate. At the other end of the spectrum, if a girl seemed like a prude and thought sex was only for procreation that was also a turn off… Both of those characteristics to the extreme threw up red flags for me.
I knew a girl who was drop dead gorgeous … Beautiful blond hair, blue eyes, fabulously sexy body. Just a total knockout…The kind of girl you would expect to see on the cover of a glamour magazine. We were both divorced and had been for awhile. We were both ready to start dating again. She was smart and extremely well educated, made good money and knew how to manage it. She had one young daughter. My friends took me out with her on a double date. I couldn’t believe any man would not want to be married to this gorgeous woman. As we started talking and as I got to know her, guess what??? BIG RED FLAG. She was at one end of the spectrum. And guess which end… PRUDE. She was an extremely nice girl and all… But I didn’t want to deal with someone who had issues with self esteem, guilt, sex, etc… I saw right away it would be a big issue in any relationship she had.
I figured out pretty quickly why her husband divorced her… It must be like being in H*LL to be married to a gorgeous sexy thing like that and not have sex…
Anyway the moral of the story is if you go too far to either end of the extreme (and stay there) it’s a turn off for most men. But being a sex kitten ONLY for him is a definite TURN ON.
Somewhere in-between is what I think men really find attractive. Kind of like what I said before…. Betty Crocker in the kitchen… and a Playmate in the bedroom. Almost like having a split personality…LOL
Hey, SS, I just had a thought. When you give him that hug when he leaves, make sure you take the LEFT side, and instead of kissing his cheek or forehead, press your face against his left shoulder. He probably checks himself in the rear-view for "marks" before going over to the warthog, and that way, he won't even SEE the mark...but SHE will as soon as he walks in...(hehehe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />)
I hear you all! Thank goodness i'm not at either ends of the extreme. We do (did) have different sex drives. They were different but not hugely so.
We've talked twice today on the phone- very matter of factly on his part... business like I guess you could call it. And he didn't respond to my flirty tm, so I didn't send another one. I think last nights "dream" was enough different for him to take notice and I don't want to be overly flirtatous because he'll think somethings up. I'll just periodically text him or leave a message that will have him "thinking" of ME!
Ok, as I was saying... I would like to find something that has the opposite affect of viagra... WH is coming over for dinner tomorrow night and I'd love to slip some of it in his meal ;-) Yep, we were supposed to have dinner tonight, he didn't cancel this time though... 2 kids weren't going to be here and the third is having a friend over...works out so well, I think... anyway because warthog emailed him saying something about all of them going swimming tomorrow... well he can't do that if he's running his own kids to appointments and staying for supper! HAHAHA of course joke will be on me if he cancels for tomorrow. I went around looking at some of his more "prized" things and they're still at the house. In January he told her he'd bring his stuff to her house, well there's a tiny piece of good news I can hold on too, since I had such a downer of a day!!! He hasn't answered email (since yesterday) or text from this afternoon, but I'm ok with that...
Not2 sorry about the TJ AGAIN! I just get to reading posts on your thread and cant help it ;-) You can tj here anytime if you'd like. I know what you mean about that line... you want to make them feel wanted but you don't want to go overboard either way.
so then DO NOT TRY ANY CONTACT AGAIN TODAY....I know Mimi has opposite advice, but you need to give him some of the chase. That was my dad's advice to me, "Men generally like to do the chasing. Oh sure they like to be chased occassionaly, but for the most part they like the hunt...". So, I guess we female BS have to tow the fine white line...
Now, what are you cooking tomorrow night?? You know what they say, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach"....let's work on your menu tonight....
Ok, as I was saying... I would like to find something that has the opposite affect of viagra... WH is coming over for dinner tomorrow night and I'd love to slip some of it in his meal ;-)
How about some chocolate chip cookies baked with Ex-lax chocolate for dessert. That'll fix THAT little problem! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Praying for you tonight, SS. Praying that your Plan A shines like a lighthouse through the fog tonight, showing him the way back home. And that he keeps seeing the shining light in his head tonight when he lays down to sleep.
Ok, as I was saying... I would like to find something that has the opposite affect of viagra... WH is coming over for dinner tomorrow night and I'd love to slip some of it in his meal ;-)
It's called salt peter.
In the days of iron men and wooden ships.... rumor has it they would put it in the food to keep the rowdy sailors from going buck wild in port. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Unfortunately it didn't keep me from running wild....LOL
Try not to let your ups and downs be tied to anything he says or does. Hard, I know.
Please believe that you are doing stupendously. You are making progress, and the conflict is killing him. He will take it out on you, but the more he is angry and unpleasant, the more your Plan A is getting to him.
In a strange, backward way, it is a good thing for him to be a jerk right now. It means he's on schedule and following the script.
I did Plan A for about 9 months - MUCH too long. I think the Harley's suggest 3 to 6 months for women, more for men, since they have more of a sense of competitiveness.
so i've been doing plan A for about 3 months, very, very minor LB here or there.... just doing a little thinking about how much longer I want to keep up with plan A... I'm going to start studying up on plan B this weekend.
my wh? no, wasn't expecting him tonight, the kids all ended up with plans so dinner was put off until tomorrow, I can't help but hope that inconvieniances the warthog
I'm having a heck of a time... thinking let him go... and he will come back,
It is always a risk, but it is also a risk to wait too long. You will lose that love for him. Even if it doesn't seem that way now, wait till he comes back and tries to fix things...THAT'S when the anger really comes through (for the BS). SO, you need to make you move while your love is still strong. You are nearing the end of that period, and have done a fantastic Plan A. I would say you really do need to think about it soon, SS.
During my countdown shortly before Plan B, several people posted on here that Dr H was now recommending shorter Plan A's. 1 1/2-3 months for women, and 3-6 months for men.
Apparently in many cases it was taking too big of a toll on the Love Bank when it went on for longer.
If you've made it to 3 months of Plan A, it's probably time to at least start thinking about Plan B.
When I had my counseling with Jennifer I asked about Plan A, and how long I should stay in plan A before I go to plan B. Here's what she said.
Quote
I asked about a time line for Plan A and how long I should stay in plan A… She said it depends on the individual. Here are the guidelines I should use when deciding if I should go into plan B.
1. You can’t control yourself from Love Busting anymore. 2. You can’t function normally anymore… (You go to work but can’t get anything done, don’t clean house, not taking care of yourself etc...) 3. If what WS is doing is causing BS unbearable pain… (I.E. If WS & BS are “‘dating” on weekends and BS can’t take it anymore)
Can any one please help me with sending a post. I dont know how to make a post. very much appreciate it. thanks Alex
OT: do you mean a new one for you? If so click on the section you want to post in. (I suggest general questions II) then at the top just above the actual posts there is a button that says {POST}. Click on that and you will see a small box that you can put subject information and then a larger one that you can post your situation. Then scroll down and there is a continue button. Hit that and preview your post. If you want to change anything scroll down again to fix it and hit continue to view the new changes.
Ok girl, you are in the doghouse, where is your menu???? Hmmm...anyway, good luck tonight, make sure YOU are looking hot....of course, for me I tend to get more reaction out of WS when I am not trying to look hot...(not saying I look bad, just that I wear nice clothes, just not thinking this will be the outfit to knock him on his knees with.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />))....
Oh well, we have another snow day, and more bad weather on the way tday and tnight, so we may end up with another one tomorrow....gotta love the midwest....they never know how to plan for bad weather.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I don't know if you are all ready for this. So WH runs kids to dentist appts... here and there... texts saying son and he are going to movie, and then oops change of plans else where, per sons idea... then what time he'd be home. Well girls were ;-) at their friends for the evening and WH was dropping son off at drivers ed and then coming over for dinner with me and the girls. So he thought, I got rid of the girls ;-) So... he walks in and the table is set... enchilladas his favorite! Candles and wine glasses. I was just taking the enchies out of the stove when he walked in. I was wearing my new VS sexy pink pj's and the f-me heals I picked up this summer. Lets just say... enchies got cold!! and then when he left, I called warthog and said "guess what I just did?! Yep that's right I just did your boyfriend in the kitchen and the dining room!!" She just slammed the phone down!
Oh shoot it's not April 1st... darn I'm a few weeks early!!
Really though... I didn't make his favorite. I made tacos, he usually loves them. He and son came in just about the time they were done, he flipped on the tv and complained of a belly ache, boo hoo. Then he only ate 1, I figured he was saving room for dinner elsewhere. But I wasn't going to let it get to me! He stuck around for two hours... an hour and a half longer than I thought he would. I doubt as oldest DD pointed out to me that they would eat that late, by the time he did leave ;-) We did a little money talk and that was 'about' it.
So it's been about 2hrs and I text him, knowing he's careful about not reading it around her, like he ignores hers until he goes into the bathroom, or whatever... anyway I said "hope your belly feels better, hope the taco didn't make it worse. Sweet dreams (of me) and then maybe you'll have a story to tell me tomorrow night."
LOL!!! I crack myself up. it's been a half hour with no response, I'm not really expecting one.
You totally had me going...I was stoked...and then, sigh.
Now that I know you have it in ya, that what I EXPECT you to do the next time...only when you get into it, say...ya know, I'm really not comfortable with this knowing you're going home to her. And get dressed, smear some make-up on his stuff and crinkle it...then call her when he leaves.
HA! I DARES YA! I TRIPLE DOG DARES YA!!!
Sheesh...gonna figure out a way to get ya back for that one, sista! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You are a BALD FACED LIAR......LMAO......now I need to go to the ER so they can fix my jaw that is now out of line....
Well, hear is a nice little "fantasy" for you to share with WS...except leave the last part out....
Now, Lala, I usually don't disagree with you on advice, but I don't think she should "c%^$-tease" WS, no matter how much he deserves it...I would think that would be a MAJOR LB...the guys could chime in on this one.......but thats JMHO...
((((Serenity))))
Honestly, you are doing great and I know you love and miss your H, but you need to prepare for Plan B....what's a time frame for you???? I think I am going to pick out a date this weekend....
lol ;-) (((not))) I really don't know if it's time for plan B yet... I know there was a time that I was saying there is no way I could do a plan B... then I was making up my own modified plan B, was told no, no! I'm going to spend some time reading plan B stuff this weekend, so ask me again later and we'll see if I can set a date too.
oh... I got him going soooo good the other night when he was working. It was great!! Although I didn't tell him it was a fantasy, I told him it was a dream I had the night before. It was naughty ;-) And it went on for quite some time. I soooo wish I had saved the conversation we had, I should have saved it and printed it, but didn't think about it until it was too late... oh well next time.
Oh good grief, NOT...I was just kidding with her. Although it WOULD be funny! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I agree with n2f, just share that little month early April fools with H before you go into Plan B.
I want to know why you haven't used your info to fight this war more. I know Plan B is on the horizon, but girl, you have to understand what your H has needed.
Refer to my last post. And no, you do NOT need the opposite of viagra, you need to fulfill your H's NEEDS, and what he has needed is as plain as the nose on your face.
And I have a strange feeling that ow knows this, and she will LB if he continues seeing you, and she HAS been fulfilling WS's need for SF, and that is where HE is at right now.
Sorry for the 2x4. But that needs to happen before plan B.
And before you do, tell me, how are you supposed to fulfill your WS's #1 need of SF, if you CAN"T do that because of whatever? Get tested for STD's first.
Go ahead and flame me everyone!
Love in Christ, Miss M <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I don't know if you are all ready for this. So WH runs kids to dentist appts... here and there... texts saying son and he are going to movie, and then oops change of plans else where, per sons idea... then what time he'd be home. Well girls were ;-) at their friends for the evening and WH was dropping son off at drivers ed and then coming over for dinner with me and the girls. So he thought, I got rid of the girls ;-) So... he walks in and the table is set... enchilladas his favorite! Candles and wine glasses. I was just taking the enchies out of the stove when he walked in. I was wearing my new VS sexy pink pj's and the f-me heals I picked up this summer. Lets just say... enchies got cold!! and then when he left, I called warthog and said "guess what I just did?! Yep that's right I just did your boyfriend in the kitchen and the dining room!!" She just slammed the phone down!
Quote
Oh shoot it's not April 1st... darn I'm a few weeks early!!
That's just wrong... Had me goin good too...
I was all.... Yea!!!! then awwww.... man...
Ya got me good though.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Neak is right... He stayed longer than he had to... that's a good sign.
ROFLMAO!!!! That was awesome. Now when are you going to actually do it. (Minus calling the wathog). Mind you that punch line did make the whole joke work.
Ya, you deffinatly do not sound like someone ready for plan B. The fact that you are having fun with Plan A is good but sick. LOL
I read that last night and I almost responded to you (about what DIDN'T happen) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I was like, you go girl... and to tell you that when my FWH was a wayward he spent NY Eve with me (was drunk when he got there, drank more when we went out, and ended up passing out on my couch). I didn't want OW to know that, so I called her up and said, "Guess who's slept with me tonight?". She was all kinds of PO'd. The thing is WH couldn't remember anything the next day so he couldn't refute it.
I agree, I don't think you're ready for Plan B yet. His staying longer than necessary (actions) is telling.
Oh good grief, NOT...I was just kidding with her. Although it WOULD be funny! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
ok good, I wasn't sure....
(((Serenity)))
How are things going there??? Just wanted to check in with you this morning. Me?? I have anpther snow day...which means this storm system could be headed YOUR way...
Glad I could lighten the mood for everyone. I have been more upbeat lately, even annoying my girls, they roll their eyes at me when they think I'm having a bit too much fun. Not my fault I like the music they like.
So he didn't respond to the tm I sent last night... I haven't called or tm today, he did pick up son about an hour ago playing taxi dad I'm sure he's loving having to drive across town to do this, but I'm working. Don't know when I'll see him again. He works nights this weekend, I hope warthogs piglets do a lot so squealin' and keep him awake ;-) Anyway I'm thinking of keeping busy this weekend and let him wonder what I'm doing.
Yeah! come on snow from N2 come this way! Too funny that the schools were all off this week for Feb vacation and we didn't have any storms that would have kept them out of school. So far we've had 10 snow/ice days!
what to do, what to do? oh yeah I remember be still... have patience. YUCK!!
ok so all communication today has been initiated by him. I don't want to be a "pest"... but how do I make sure he knows I'm thinking about him?
so he texted me to let me know varsity bball won! daughter plays on the freshmen team... so i texted him back (after awhile) that he should think about taking her to the game at the civic center next saturday (of course I'd tag along), he tm'd right back saying maybe.
He's at work, not chatting or emailing so either he can't or he's too busy chattin' with the warthog- who would be sooo pissed if he went with us next weekend!
I don't want to be a "pest"... but how do I make sure he knows I'm thinking about him?
Out of the blue when he's not expecting it... Send him a text that say's just that...
"I was just thinking about you"
"You're in my thoughts"
Something simple and to the point.
If you want to be creative send a phone picture with a message... Be creative... Take a picture of a paper heart with the same message...Make sure it's legible and he can read it...Or send him a nice picture of you with the same text... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
How was your night??? Good I hope. Have you ever read Mark's Fishing Musings??? You need to read it if you haven't. He compares fishing to getting your mate back....
About next weekend, that would be great..but remember NO EXPECTATIONS...OR AT LEAST...EXPECT TO BE HURT...
How's it going today???? What is the game plan today???
Me..I'm getting off here in a second.....taking a shower, then working on my basement....I know I keep saying I'm working on it, but I swear when I get down there it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad, I hardly do anything and then give up....NOT TODAY though....gonna work hard for 2 hours on it....then tonight Dad and I are going to see the "Bucket List"....everyone who has seen it says it's funny and its not a romance, so that sounds just like something I need...
Anyway, keep busy, no contacting WS today....oh,,,, and read the Fishing Musings thread....
Worked for a bit today. Got groceries. TM WH around the time he would be waking up saying how I would sure like to be climbing in bed with him right now and waking him up... he responded, liked it and asked for more. Was probably a foolish waste of time on my part.
This evening I realized he had said earlier in the week that he was going to spend time with the kids this afternoon, guess who didn't show up OR even call them. Yep, it a bad mood at him again! The more I think about his behavior and actions over the past few years I feel bad for him and really believe he's suffering from depression. Maybe she'll help him, maybe she won't.
Doing what he is doing is making it (depression) worse yes, I agree there, but he was depressed before this... years I believe. Read some more email between the two of them he professes his love to her and how happy he is now, how he's never been so happy in all his life ;-(
We made it to church this morning!! My first time since July, and I dragged the kids-first time in years ;-(
Read some more email between the two of them he professes his love to her and how happy he is now, how he's never been so happy in all his life ;-(
Don't believe it... He's addicted remember...He’ll say anything to you or the OW to keep getting his drug… Watch his actions not what he says or writes.
What did you expect him to say to the OW in his email??? "I hate you, you make me miserable...???" When you read his emails be careful, don’t let what you read run your emotions. You should be reading his emails in order to find a weak spot in the affair so you can exploit it… Just like we talked about the other day… The perfume, lipstick, panties in the glove box… etc…OW is definitely threatened by him spending any time with you… take advantage of it.
Quote
but he was depressed before this...
Ok... I was going to put this in my earlier post but didn't...
My dad was bi-polar... He married his high school sweetheart, they had 11 kids and a loving home, she passed away at the age of 58 and he never re-married, … they had their ups and downs… but the one thing he never did was CHEAT ON HER AND HE LOVED HER UNTIL THE DAY HE DIED…
I probably have some depression issues too... but I'm not screwing around on my wife...
Don’t let the depression your WS may have justify any of his actions… in his mind or yours…
Read some more email between the two of them he professes his love to her and how happy he is now, how he's never been so happy in all his life
(((Serenity))) (that's your hug before your 2x4...sorry sista but you have it coming...)
He had an affair because he was DEPRESSED....BS..BS...BS..
My mom suffered/suffers from D. She had multiple A's. Her and my Father STILL to this DAY blame it on the D (we talked about this again last night....). I say bullcrap....I suffered from anxiety/panic attacks/Depression for the last for years. I had a H who was not there emotionally through my DD trauma and yet I STILL DID NOT HAVE AN AFFAIR. Maybe Dr. Harley is right in that I never had the oportunity, but STILL....I DID NOT HAVE AN AFFAIR......During the worst of those times I thought of suicide, I DID NOT DO THAT EITHER.
Serenity, many people suffer from DEPRESSION. Some chose to fix it by just going through life. Some chose to fix it by seeing an IC. Some chose to fix it by getting AD's. Some chose to fix it by drinking or street drugs. Your H DECIDED to fix it by having an A. Is it working??? Temporarily.....If (and I believe this with my all of my heart and whole being.....) you were to go into Plan B, your WS way of fixing this would come crashing down on him, because he is CHOOSING to aliviate his D with another woman. She is a bandaide to his D. And when he looses contact with you and the kids, then the bandaide will start of fall off.
Why you ask? Because you can't heal a bullet wound with a bandaide. It just ain't gonna work.
As far as the emails....YOU KNOW THIS SERENITY....BS,wayward, fogspeak babble....and when you go into Plan B you will see that...because the emails will suddenly turn a different tune.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Hogwart tries to contact you during Plan B, either looking for advice from YOU on how to fix him (ie....I'm really worried about him....He's talking suicide....) or to chew your butt out because in their screwed up little world they will think YOU are the cause of his misery....
Either way, it is not YOUR fault any more than it is your fault that he CHOSE to abandoned your children.
Girl, it is time you stand up and fight for you and your kids. I know your "excuses" on Plan B. You won't let the kids go to Hogwarts...he wouldn't be able to see them...blah blah blah....
Your kids are old enough to be able to decide if they want to see their dad or go to HER house. The courts cannot make them go there (don't believe me??? Go talk to that lawyer like you've been saying you may do.....). And even if he takes them out one day and they ended up over there, from what we have seen from your kids, they will make the visit so HELLISH he will NEVER make that MISTAKE again.
Ok,,,I'm done.....
Serenity, girl, you know I feel for you and love ya to death, but I am not liking your thinking about all of this. I have seen the effects of depression and what it can do, but I CANNOT and WILL NOT buy into this theory that he was depressed and it made him have the affair. Nor will I buy into this theory that because he is having an affair it fixes his depression, because honey, if that were the case, that is what the Dr.'s would start recommending to all of the patients suffering from Depression.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
you know the saying "An apple a day keeps the DR. away",,,,well I haven't heard "An affair today keeps depression at bay".....
Sorry to burst your bubble......(you know how passionate I am on the topic of DEPRESSION...)....
Your thinkin is stinkin....it would be like me saying my depression caused my WS to have his affair....sorry...not buying it...
ok...I swear I am done this time..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
there isn't much to tell about church. dd14 was p.o.'d that I made them get up and go. ds16 was saying we should go saturday evenings so he could sleep in. dd13 wasn't too happy that I made dd14 wake up to go "now she's going to be cranky" LOL gotta love 'em. Anyway I was hoping the readings would be about the prodigal son, oh well ;-) I am SO GLAD that we went, I really hope this is the beginning of returning and continuing to go.
ok, ok, 2x4s accepted!! geesh. LOL I need them every once in awhile. I just need to be reminded to watch his actions and not pay attention to the lies he's giving her or me.
I don't "think" I meant to blame the affair on his depression, I will have to re-read what I wrote. I just think that he's been searching for happieness for awhile because he will not admit to having an illness, men!
He sent me another email last night saying he was going to call a bankruptcy attorney this week. Of course if he needs something in the future he can use "warthogs" credit, me? Won't have good credit, this sucks!! Oh well I think we'll be back together anyway, so it will be "our" bad credit... frankly I wouldn't care if we were together and rebuilding our life TOGETHER.
So I was in a darn good mood, went to get some groceries, holding my head high. Thinking if I do run into OW (which weird that I never have) that I'd just smirk at her and walk away. Anyway who do I see, the one that was supposed to be my BF. I have't wanted to speak to her since she wrote email to WH to do whatever as long as he was happy. Justifying what she was getting ready to do (kick her dh out.) So anyway, I tried avoiding her and just as I was getting ready to leave I walked by her, she looked at me, I waved and said hello, and she just turned away!! How rude! I know she saw me and if she didn't one of her kids would have pointed me out to her, the 6yo is my God Son ;-(
So anyway I was in a funk on the way home, but reading what Not2 and Amazin wrote helped me snap out of it! THANK YOU!!! Guess what I'm going to do NOT?? Yep scrappin' table here I come!!
GOOD FOR YOU... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Like I said, I know I was harsh but this is something I believe with all my heart. We will get through this together.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />....and we will come out of it no matter the outcome STRONGER, HEALTHIER, MORE VIBRANT WOMEN because of it...
Scrapbooking ya say?? You know, the kids and I went to Captiva, FL 3yrs ago and I came home with some amazing pictures. I always said I was going to do a scrap book of it, but never did (scrapping is not really my thing....I tried it when I was first married and DD14 who was 1 at the time got a hold of the first book I was doing and ripped it all up....frusterated me to no end...it took me a long time just to get done what was done.....never did it again....), so maybe I should take your lead and get on that... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Here's a quote for us this morning....
"Listen to God and the changes He wants you to make in your life"...by Queenie
She wrote that to Snuggles this morning....it just really spoke to me and I thought it was beautiful.....so lets work on that .....
well now that dd isn't 1 anymore ;-) you can safely scrap! You would be amazed at how far the scrapbook industry has come, incase you didn't know LOL they have huge stores dedicated to the hobby!!
"Listen to God and the changes He wants you to make in your life"...by Queenie
She wrote that to Snuggles this morning....it just really spoke to me and I thought it was beautiful.....so lets work on that .....
I thought about that quote a lot too... I don't know why but I feel like God has a plan for me and my family But I havn't been going to church... Resisting maybe? I've never been a very religious man or had a lot of faith. But since all this affair crap has been going on I've been much more willing to accept??? More receptive maybe??? Does that make sense?
I didn't mean to TJ... but I was thinking about that quote too...
Ladies, excuse me. But I read this and want to make a slight comment as I am facing Plan B myself.
Quote
As far as the emails....YOU KNOW THIS SERENITY....BS,wayward, fogspeak babble....and when you go into Plan B you will see that...because the emails will suddenly turn a different tune.
I could be wrong, trust me and correct me if I am, but when you go into Plan B, there won't be any emails. There won't be any contact. He will cease to exist for you until certain conditions are met. If he needs to contact you, there needs to be an intermediary and I think I am safe in suggesting that this person understand that there job is to relay only emergencies.
The whole point of Plan B is to go completely dark and completely out of his life for yourself, your sanity, your recovery and possibly your M.
Another gift from G-d, but my two older kids are adults and don't have to see him at all. My YS is 15 and the courts will let him decide what he wants to do. I have asked in my LSA for sole custody and all life decisions regarding my children are left up to me. He has no input, OR is she allowed to be around my children.
I can imagine that will make him angry, however.. As so MANY on here say, I am protecting my children and you have that right too.
Please know that going into Plan B is a serious decision because in essence there will be no more WH in your life. I think that's why the heart and mind need to be in sync as best as possible.
I'm pretty sure Not meant that when/if I go to plan B the email between WH and OW will change. I've been snooping every once in awhile, it gets me down, but I know I should JUST be looking for that weak spot in their affair and use it to MY advantage.
He popped in for about an hour and a half this afternoon. I remained cheerful and pleasant. We talked about bills that are due, etc. Talked about when kids need to be where and when he'd have to do it because I have meetings out of town. He doesn't really have a way to prove to OW that I'm really out of town, so I hope it burns at her, making her wonder if I really am out of town.
not to disappoint you Not, but haven't gotten to the scrappin' yet. Decided to color the roots ;-) and watch some Greys Anatomy on DVD, first season, never watched it before... oh and I did do a bit of exercising! Plenty of time left in the day though... foods already cookin' so that's one less thing to get in my way.
So far it's pretty good. Guess during the season there's just too many other things on ;-) My dd14 has raved about it. I heard that it might be inappropriate so she wasn't allowed to watch it. Well it came on a school night anyway, but then her best friend started recording them, and they'd watch them when my dd stayed the night over there. She knew why I didn't want her to watch them, so we discussed certain issues and stopped giving her a hard time. Heck if staying in having Greys Anatomy marathons are the worst she's doing at 14 then I'm grateful! Actually that is the worst, cause otherwise she's here with me or at school and that leash is still pretty tight. I'm "over protective," and proud of it!
Beef stew, quick and easy threw everything in after church and haven't had to worry about it.
Ok, I've got to prepare for a presentation... my first EVER in front of a group of strangers- elementary students parents, this shall be interesting.
hugs to you queenie, don't know if I mentioned it on your thread, but what I thought you did at the field was brave and you're my hero ;-) standing up for your marriage the way you did. I hope to be that brave and not sulk and hide away (if/when.)
hugs to you queenie, don't know if I mentioned it on your thread, but what I thought you did at the field was brave and you're my hero ;-) standing up for your marriage the way you did. I hope to be that brave and not sulk and hide away (if/when.)
I don't know if it really will matter to my M, but I know that I love him and miss him so much. I have to try everything and just know I did my best.
My heart wishes that I took up space with them yesterday. Don't know though. Might never know.
Thank you though. It did't seem like it was being brave at all. Just what I needed to do.
Remember, this is like a football game and you’re the coach. Anything he says is but another play you defend against. I know it's hard, and I wish there was something I could say that made a difference. I also know and hope that what you say here is not shown to him.
Still pulling and praying for you. Keep it up, because it sounds like he's getting LB from the warthog, and he will eventually see that you are there for him.
DD14 calls and said "girl" walked up to her at the bus loop and asked what DD's dads name was, DD asked why, girl said "he's dating my aunt, but none of my family likes her." well duh! warthog cheated on her husband before he passed away-that side of the family can't stand her. Anyway, DD14 goes to text her best friend "warthog(used her name) is girls aunt"... she got back at text "no sh*t" from her dad! Yikes, she didn't mean to text him. Anyway he made some sort of comment when he picked her up. She called me as soon as he left and begged me not to tell him that she texted him on accident, let him think that she did it on purpose. I agreed that I wouldn't say anything to him. Not really in the mood to chat with him anyway.
So I get home find out he didn't spend time with the kids like he said he would, didn't take ds to get hair cut.
Take DD13 to the library on the way she asks if there is anything that would put me in a better mood, I couldn't think of anything. So we were looking for videos and whose standing at the counter AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! I've never seen her in person, she's UGLIER than her pictures. I said to DD13 I'm sure that's warthog, she said "are you going to go and hit her or something" LOL oh yeah that's how I deal with things. LOL!!! So I had to get out of there, I see her talking to one of the piglets (I know the piglets so now I know 100% that it is her)(wh may have been hiding back there behind the stacks, but I really don't think he's out in public with her yet) So we're checking out the videos and I tell the older librarian (very nice lady, known her for many years) "that woman that was just up here is sleeping with my husband" she said "WHAT?" I said yep, he's been staying with her since just after Christmas. The shock on her face ;-) She says "you never can tell with some people"
So on the way out I purposely walk by her and smirked!!! Ha! If I weren't so nervous or grossed out I would have said something like, "good luck with him" or "thanks for taking him off my hands" something to make her think.
SS... She's intimidated by you ... use that to your advantage...
You should have acted like you didn't know who she was or that she was there. You should have said something that she could overhear that would make her even more intimidated...
Something like this to your daughter...
"Honey you know your dad and I are still planning to take you guys camping in a couple of weeks... why don't we make a list of the movies you want to watch on the ride to Florida...."
Put her on the defensive... make her un-easy for a change...
We talked about this on N2F's thread the other day... the liar thinks everyone is lying... the thief thinks everyone is stealing... the cheater thinks everyone is cheating...
Make her think exactly that... that he's playing her... then she'll break it off...
You don't need to lie in order to win this war. Lying is what the infidels do. Don't lower yourself to their level.
As good as it would feel to do what Amazin suggested, it would not be very productive. What would likely happen is that warthog would run to your H and ask him about the family vacation he was planning with you. He would deny it, of course...But then he would see you as a liar and someone who would be dishonest for the reason of revenge. It would not be seen as fighting for him but against him. It would be seen by him as you trying to hurt him directly with an action that was intended solely for that purpose.
It would feel good....
It would be counterproductive, IME.
Others might disagree, but I would not see it as a loving act of trying to save the marriage if I were him, only as an act of vengeance.
JMO.
I think what you did was perfect!
Let OW make his life complicated. You make his life pleasant and something he desires. If he sees you as trying to make him miserable, he will see warthog as his salvation rather than you.
Exposure is good.
Just causing trouble by any means....not so good, IMO.
Mark has a good point too... You don't need to lie in order to win this war.
Hind sight is 20/20... "If I would have"... doesn't get you anything...
But I do firmly believe that if you're reading his emails and finding weak spots in the affair then you should use that information to your advantage... You don't have to be dishonest... Just let her own mistrusting lying mind go into overdrive and I think she'll self destruct ...
Yep, you're both right. After I read Marks post I was like duh! I have a hard time doing much if any lying-don't need to start now. I did tell DD I'd changed my mind please don't lie to dad about the library. I was wrong to tell you that you should lie. She said ok, but I don't have to tell him we saw her if he doesn't ask ;-) Yep! I know I need to be honest and strong to get through this AND be a better role model for the kids. I'm trin'
) "that woman that was just up here is sleeping with my husband" she said "WHAT?" I said yep, he's been staying with her since just after Christmas. The shock on her face ;-) She says "you never can tell with some people"
I think this was WONDERFUL!! This is EXPOSURE!! Didn't it FEEL GREAT?
I did stuff like this all the time and it made my H and the OW go into HIDING..out of SHAME...
And it caused HER to LOVEBUST...caused PROBLEMS in the LOVE NEST.. She couldn't understand why he was embarassed...and he couldn't understand why she was not... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I began to HOLD my HEAD UP HIGH and tell everybody that I could..rather than me being embarassed...
A regret I have is that I didn't tell HER BOSS..my H talked me out of it, saying that her boss didn't care.
So that you don't get left standing there with your mouth open trying to think of what to say when he brings up what happened at the library, think now about what you will say in response to his babbling.
This is the trick to reverse babble....Know what he is likely to say and think about possible responses so that you don't have to "think on your feet" and make it up at the time.
You know that if she says anything to him about what happened at the library, he will have to say something to you about it. How can you state your truth and your reasons for fighting for the marriage when he does?
If he doesn't bring it up, it means one of two things has taken place. 1)She said something to him about it and he is ignoring her or at least unwilling to attack you over what he thinks was a valiant act on your part.... Or... 2)She was so embarrassed by what happened that she did NOT say anything to him about it, in which case, you can rest assured that it is going to continue to eat at her for a long time, because it would mean that SHE saw it as a valiant act on your part...
Assuming the fog filled environment of the fantasy, she has to feel slighted by you and it is just one more example of you being evil for not just letting go of him quietly. So she has to say something to him about it because it is her right to be angry at you for intruding in her fantasy (think entitlement to the extreme here).
He has two options....
Support her or turn on her and show her weakness.
If the latter, the affair is doomed.
If the former, then he will be coming after you to show himself worthy of her <insert barfing icon here> (Worthy of the warthog??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> )
So prepare now for what you will say to him when he comes to you about it. One simple sentence that lets him know you will use the truth and all the is within your power, including praying to God, to bring about an end to this insanity from him.
And know that if he does not, another flaw in the affair has been exposed and continued steadfastness on your part will bring down its foundations.
I tell the older librarian (very nice lady, known her for many years) "that woman that was just up here is sleeping with my husband"
I also think you handled it well. Too bad you couldn't have said this to the librarian WHILE the warthog was also up there. Maybe your DD could have distracted the piglets to save them the shame. The look on Warthog's face would have been more priceless than the librarian's....lol.....
And btw, it's not slander if it's true. It is true that she was sleeping with your husband. The librarian can come up with her own conclusions about her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Just be careful to not call her a ho or something like that, because it's subjective and could be considered slander. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
However, feel free to speak freely the truth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Ok, bad, bad day. I feel like I'm back at square one. I have no clue what I'm doing and probably blew every inch I had gained.
So I snoop in email... she wrote him an email-guess he's having a bit of trouble down there... with her. HAHA!! We never ever had an issue when it came to that. All I could hope for that it was a guilt issue, hopeful thinking on my part.
Anyway earlier in the day I texted something a bit sexy... he totally ignored it-didn't respond.
So we start emailing and IMing while he's at work this evening. He said something about why didn't I mention that I "ran" into her yesterday. I said "we didn't "run" into each other, we just happened to be in the same place at the same time, it was bound to happen." I said "I had to do everything I could not to say something to her. I hate!!!! what she is doing." He says "what about what I'm doing?" He always does that, he doesn't want me to blame her. Anyway it wasn't a good conversation. He wasn't mad, just frustrated that I would still want him back. I mentioned something about her possibly cheating on him at some point, he didn't respond. I sat here bawling my eyes out as we typed back and forth. I know some WSs blame their BS for the affair, well he keeps putting it back on himself and HIS shortcomings etc. I hate that, Why do I feel like it's my fault? I know why, because it is ME that he left! I asked him why he hasn't seen the kids much, I said is she pressuring you? He said "absolutely not! She encourages me to spend as much time as possible with them." Well if that's the case he doesn't want to spend much time with them, because he's rarely here. I asked if it was because I was here and he said no. Well I read an email that said she didn't like it when I was here and he comes to see the kids. At least twice he mentiond something about "not coming home".
I'm just lost I guess. Normally I'm not so stupid, blonde yes, stupid no. I have no clue where to go from here.
Don't be so hard on yourself soon. I think the emotions of the IMing is getting to you.
The only mistake you made is not dropping the subject soon enough. After you said that it was bound to happen, that should have been it. Everything after that is what got you drawn into R talk. It doesn't sound like you did any LBs, and the discussion sounds like it was pretty tame, so no... You’re not at square one.
So let’s says you had another chance.... (Ok, let's see if I learned anything from Mark...)
- We didn't run into each other, we just happened to be in the same place at the same time, it was bound to happen... wait until you see the new bright red stilettos I just bought to go with my little black dress....
Avoids all the R talk and gets you right back into flirting mode.
Don't worry, it was a little misstep not a jump off a cliff. Look at it this way, you learned a trick for avoiding R talk.
He's following the STANDARD SCRIPT...My H took absolute BLAME for the AFFAIR until the FOG was lifted..up until a full year in RECOVERY..He felt GUILTY what he did to both ME and HER..YUCK..FINALLY, FINALLY, he saw her for what she was/is...
I think you are doing just FINE..given the situation...
AFFAIRS ARE JUST AWFUL..AWFUL...
How can we help you get ready for PLAN B? I predict that it would be a SHORT PLAN B...
LOL, no he doesn't know I call her names, that is something I learned the first time I made a derogatory statement about her... he did not like that at all. Guess I should stop using that around the kids too... they might call her that and he'll get p.o'd
I guess I'm having a hard time recognizing the babble. I just tend to believe what he's saying, he just seems so addmant (sp?) about not coming back. He said he wants me to be happy, but he doesn't want me waiting around for him to come back because he doesn't "see that happening"
Mark, yep saw your post... hanging on! trying too.
((tmts))
Just too darn emotional tonight... doesn't help that it followed a bad migraine. He just seems soooo convincing when he says he was unhappy with life for so long.
Turst me, these OW don't show their true colors when they are first attempting to steal husbands. They are on their best behavior, asking nothing in return, long suffering, full of admiration. But that grows old, and the real OW comes out.
Affairs always end, and it is usually the married man who ends them. Men don't like to be told what to do. At first he will deny it is happening, but sooner or later (we hope sooner), he will get tired of it.
And the "problems" he is having with her is just icing on the cake.
mimi, get ready for plan B? I don't know. That isn't something I've ever been fond of. To me it's like having all or nothing. And I would rather have him (a little) as in a friend, rather than nothing. I know we've been through this conversation before. I guess it'll take a few more 2x4s first before I can get it. And then I'd have to go back and read up on it some more. I mean what if it pushes him farther away... he still hasn't taken anything besides half of his clothes, he hasn't contacted a lawyer, he hasn't changed where his check goes. I just think if I were to make a step in "that" direction he'd plow full steam ahead with it.
I'll never forget the phone call I got one weekend from my then WH...away with her on the weekend during PLAN A..that was his style..
He called, begging me: "MY NAME, PLEASE LET ME GO"..LOL...I think it's was messing up his FUN and he wasn't FEELING the HIGH as much any longer..that's what's probably going on with yours..He wants that HIGH again....
oh and TMTS this is the first time we had R talk in forever it seems. It's always something we avoid, probably for the reason that happend tonight, me getting so emotional about it. but you're right I need to avoid it, it did no good.
Honey....SNAP OUT OF IT.....No crying, no whining, no self-pity parties.....HEAD UP, CHEST OUT...confidence level high.....
Girl, we've have got to get you on the ball...heck, its quite a high....lol
You have got to be ready for Plan B....too long and you will lose him......I'm telling you,,,,Me, who hates confrontations is so ready for Plan B ....well, kind of....heck after tomorrow, if he comes clean I might be ready for Plan FU....
oh wait, we're talking about YOU.....What are you doing to better YOURSELF for YOU??????
Come on....I tell ya....Mimi's gonna be after you next.....
As much as you must know I HATE to tell you this, I think if you DO NOT do PLAN B and stay in PLAN A too long, your WH will eventually lose his love for you OR you will lose your love for him.
The BIGGEST MISTAKE that I made was to stay in PLAN A too long. If you know my story at all, PLAN B then only lasted ALMOST 3 months...legally separated in MAY, reconciled in SEPTEMBER...
In order to END the AFFAIR, he has to begin to SUFFER. If the AFFAIR becomes comfortable, you are ENABLING it and he MAINTAINS his ADDICTION to her. It's like a woman telling her husband that it's OK for him to remain a coke addict.
He wants you as a BACKUP. That's why he's leaving his stuff...same with my H..but over time..he actually became CLOSER and CLOSER to her. He had me at home WAITING and he thought I would WAIT FOREVER. He called on the day that our house sold because HE thought that I was ACTUALLY moving on...
Well, I guess you can read the story...
He's not treating you as a person of VALUE. If you continue to SETTLE for that, that's how he'll see you and that's how he'll treat you.
Rise up and say that you are not going to take it anymore. I couldn't. I REFUSED TO SHARE MY HUSBAND. I WANTED ALL OF HIM OR NONE OF HIM...and I told him that. I meant it. I was UNWILLING TO BE HIS FRIEND. I AM HIS WIFE.
Plan B is to stop worrying about what he does so that he doesn't push you away. It isn't to make him come home or make him do anything. It is to save what ever love you have left for him so that when the affair dies, which happens almost every single time, their will be enough in your LB$ so that you will still want him.
If you wait till you are all out of love for him, there is no need for Plan B because there is nothing left to save and so Plan D becomes the only remaining solution.
As long as you still love him and want him, you can accept him back when the affair is over. If you lose all love for him, you will not want him no matter how much he wants to come home.
You can't Plan A forever because he is eating cake and offering you less than crumbs. It is only a matter of time before you no longer want him in your life. Plan B can save your marriage under these conditions. Prepare for it so you are ready with it when the time comes and you realize you are loving him less each day.
I'll let Dr. Harley speak to you. I always found this article to be helpful.
Quote
So, then, what is plan A and plan B?
Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.
On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.
In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.
A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.
In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.
But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.
Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.
So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?
While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."
As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.
The way I interpet this, PLAN B IS PART OF THE RECOVERY PLAN after PLAN A but it is a LAST RESORT. The WS has to depend on the OP to MEET ALL OF THE ENs rather than being able to cake-eat. The OP typically FAILS miserably and the BS is not available to provide relief. While cake-eating, ENs are met by both the BS and the OW.
Ok, I'm going to re-read all of what was posted last night when I get home from work this evening. I'm copying and posting an email he sent to me last night... now tell me this isn't a guy who is totally out of love with his wife and wants to move on? ;-(
"I want to remain friends... and you want more than that, which makes it difficult for me to try to balance being friends and not giving you the impression that I am changing my mind.
as far as the meals go, I also think that gives the kids (and maybe you) the wrong impression. Don't get me wrong I want the kids to know that we can get along and be friends.. and still both love them and raise them. I don't want them to think that is not going to happen. I also don't want them to think that we are working things out and everything is gonna go back to what it used to be.
The sake of the kids is very important to me. don't think for a second that because what i am doing, makes me not care about the kids or how they will turn out. We've given them a great foundation and they are very smart. They're not going to fall all to pieces because we grew apart..or i grew apart.. however u want to put it.
I want what is best for them also, and me coming back and not being as happy as i can be... would not be good for any of us.
I'm working Sunday dayshift... so seeing the kids that day is probably out. Maybe I can take them out for breakfast or make them breakfast sat. morning. either that or Dinner friday evening. I'm supposed to play poker friday night with the **** not sure if I'm going to do that."
I see/hear no babble... all I see is he's done and moving on.
"I want what is best for them also, and me coming back and not being as happy as i can be... would not be good for any of us."
i am by no means an expert... but that looks like complete babble to me. Waht is best for them is to have two parents who know how to love each other more inspite of all that has happened. This would be an invaluable lession for them to learn.
Something you need to understand about babble that I had trouble with as well. Babble is not the odd line here or there, it's a mindset. That mindset being that anything that has to do with the M is negative. The problem they run into is that they know what they are doing is wrong so they must justify it, and that's where you get babble. First they convince themselves to believe the babble, once they’ve done that it becomes their truth so yes it sounds convincing because they believe it, the last step is to convince others of this new found truth. That is exactly the whole purpose of his e-mail, to convince you of this new truth.
What he doesn't know is that you know that it is babble and can ignore it for what it is. All this [email]cr@p[/email] about being friends to make it easier on the kids is just that [email]cr@p.[/email] This e-mail is about making a D as easy as possible on him. Look at the last paragraph, he "might" do breakfast; he "might" not go to poker. Does that sound like a guy who is really looking out for the welfare of his kids?
You are at a crossroads Soon. If you want to be his friend, there is nothing wrong with that, but the marriage will probably die (Mimi explains it best). If you want to be his wife, I agree with the vets here that you need to go to Plan B. I know that there are certain things that Plan B are truly meant for, but I also believe that the timing of your actions can also make a difference, and right now the timing would be good as you know that the owner of the hogmobile (Did you like how I avoided using the W word. LOL) is starting to LB him, and he's showing signs that things are not that pretty over in hogtown, so by putting him in a position where his ENs get net by her, and his visits with the kids are scheduled, it will put real pressure on the A.
You know we love you dear. Hang tough we're by your side.
don't think for a second that because what i am doing, makes me not care about the kids or how they will turn out.
BULL SH*T. His actions show he doesn't care... He doesn't understand how selfish his actions are or how it affects them and how they feel. So dont buy that horse crap for one minute.
It is all babble...
That's all I see... He's justifying in his own mind why he can't come home.
me coming back and not being as happy as i can be... would not be good for any of us.
Yes it would...It would be good for everyone. He's just too damn addicted to see that right now.
SS he's not moving on he's justifying what he's doing in his own mind... Don't listen to his words watch his actions. He's conflicted. I would expect one minute he's acting semi human and the next he's not.
I want to remain friends... and you want more than that, which makes it difficult for me to try to balance being friends and not giving you the impression that I am changing my mind.
Interpreted to mean, "I WANT TO CAKE-EAT". I betcha he would not be your friend if/when you find another man. He is not seeing you RESPECTING you as a GODDESS/WOMAN/SEXUAL BEING. He sees you as not having needs for a MAN. So, he wants YOU and HER. You, being his FRIEND with you not having any other MALE friends. Got it? That's why PLAN A must involve you working on being a GODDESS. A REAL WOMAN IN ALL RESPECTS!! This really POed me about my H. I didn't sign on to be his FRIEND. I can have WOMAN FRIENDS to meet the FRIEND NEED. I signed on to be HIS WIFE...mother of his children, life partner, sex partner, the whole deal..HOW DARE HE SELL YOU SHORT and make you into being a SECOND-CLASS whatever....I hope you don't buy into this BULL CRAP...
Quote
Don't get me wrong I want the kids to know that we can get along and be friends.. and still both love them and raise them.
This is NUTS..A MAN can't RAISE his kids in a healthy, normal fashion LIVING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN.
Quote
The sake of the kids is very important to me. don't think for a second that because what i am doing, makes me not care about the kids or how they will turn out. We've given them a great foundation and they are very smart. They're not going to fall all to pieces because we grew apart..or i grew apart..
I hope you find it INSULTING that he thinks that you are stupid enough to buy this BULLCRAP. Make it CLEAR to him that you do not BUY this. You do not have to say it by LOVEBUSTING. Tell him that what he is saying does not make sense, that you do not agree. It is easy to do. "CHILDREN ARE MOST HAPPY WHEN RAISED, IF POSSIBLE, BY BOTH OF THEIR PARENTS LIVING TOGETHER"..PERIOD..Make it like THE FACT that it is...
Quote
Maybe I can take them out for breakfast or make them breakfast sat. morning.
WHOOPEE..I'll give my kids CRUMBS and that evidences to them that I care about them..YUCK...
Quote
I see/hear no babble... all I see is he's done and moving on.
WHAT? THIS IS ALL BABBLE..STRAIGHT OUT OF THE WS SCRIPT..NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY ALL SAY...
What I don't like is that he thinks that he has YOU FOOLED...
I want you to RISE UP, SERENITY! In order for your marriage to recover, HE HAS TO RESPECT YOU!! He has to see you as being VALUABLE!!
This is NOT ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS or WHAT HE WANTS.
This is about how you view yourself.
He clearly continues to have love for you.
The key now is for you to EVIDENCE LOVE OF YOURSELF...to FEEL GOOD about who you are and what you believe in...
He is asking your permission to MOVE ON...
He wants you to ENABLE HIM to MOVE ON..
"OK, WH, I GO ALONG WITH YOUR SICK PLAN"...
Tell him where YOU STAND on this...what YOU want..what YOU believe in..
Quit buying his blubber. This is sooooo sad to see you get mowed over by someone who is so clearly sick. Is that how you want to be perceived by him? By your children? Tell you what-spend ONE WEEK doing exactly what we tell you to do, and if it doesn't make a difference, you can ignore us and do whatever you want.
First thing-reply to the email. No long, drawn out responses, just highlight and past each of his paragraphs and give one-line answers to the BABBLE that speaks your TRUTH.
Paragraph #1 response: I am not your friend, I am your wife, whether that makes you uncomfortable or not.
Paragraph #2 response: You spending time with your children is something they deserve. You are their father.
Paragraph #3 response: Children of broken families suffer greatly. The very best thing for our children is for them to have their mother and father married and living together. We both owe it to them to be together and work this out.
Paragraph #4 response (this one is a KILLER-him being as "happy as he can be"...GOOD GRIEF!!) I am the person who can make you as "happy as you can be" and you CAN be in love with me this way again. I have a plan to make this happen if you come home.
Paragraph #5 response: The children deserve to be the FIRST priority in your life. Please give them that courtesy as their father.
***** Mimi...does this look OK?
SS-you are going to lose him if you do not RISE UP!! Follow the example of your FRIEND Not2fun. You will make a difference!
Second order of business...GET BUSY!!! Quit worrying about what he is doing. Quit being available for his every scrap. VALUE YOURSELF and he will value you as well. Throw yourself into your work, your children, your house, your personal growth. Take up a new hobby...SOMETHING! Make this your GOAL for the next week, to be "unavailable" and make it because you are working on your SELF and your CHILDREN who are suffering their mother accepting scraps form a man who is living with another woman. For goodness sakes, SS, you daughter is being approached by other kids who know of the A. Do a great Plan A for a few day and prep for Plan B.
Just give it chance, SS...there are many success stories here and you have really great vets helping you-don't let this opportunity pass you by...
A WS spouse lies about things for months, perhaps even years. They lie about:
Where they have been... Who they have been with... What they were doing while not at home... Who they have been talking to... Who they have been spending their time with... The things they have been talking about with OP... The stuff that is wrong with the marriage... The stuff that is wrong with the BS... Who they have been boinking on the side... What they have spent money on...
And when they tell the BS that the marriage is over and nothing can be done to save it...
Why in HE!! does the BS believe them?
When he says he wants to be friends with OW...He means he wants to keep you but keep boinking her.
When he says he wants to remain friends with you...He means he wants to keep you in case it doesn't work out while he is boinking her.
When he says the kids will be OK as long as you go along with his plan...He means he wants to keep boinking her while you keep the family together for when he is tired of boinking her...
If he wanted to be rid of you, he would have filed by now.
It ALL means he wants you to wait till he gets done boinking her...
Plan B let's you heal and live a life of just daily normal drama instead of affair drama while he gets tired of boinking her. Unless you get there before you lose all love for him and have no respect left for yourself, you might as well skip the logistical nightmare of Plan B and go right for Plan D because if you don't want him back, there can be no recovery.
And that will be the result if you let him keep eating his cake...He wants to boink her, but he doesn't want to give you up in case it doesn't work out. He basically wants his marriage, but he wants to keep boinking her...And will if you let him continue doing it.
This is why Plan A has to be hot and heavy, precise and short in duration. . It is because you can't really Plan A properly for very long because it will kill YOU before it kills the affair in most cases.
And THAT is why there is even a Plan B.
Mark
PS I'm going to cut and paste something I posted last night about what happens to children whose parents divorce because of an affair. It'll be my next post to you.
I posted this on another thread last night addressed to a WW who has been reading her husband's thread. Might give you some things to think about in order to respond to his assertions that the kids will be fine:
Quote
MIL left her husband for OM when her daughters were teenagers and preteen.
1 was married 4 times, now alone. She lost a son soon after first divorce to an accident while he was with the babysitter while she worked her second job. Her daughter is married for the second time. Her grandchildren are in therapy.
1 is with her 4th husband. She got pregnant at 14 and married at 15. She has 4 adult children by 3 different men and one she gave up for adoption because she was single (divorced) when she got pregnant. Her oldest was living with a guy when she got pregnant by someone else. Now married to a different guy. Her second daughter lives with another woman. Her son and his wife are in counseling. Her other son...she has no idea where he is.
1 has had multiple affairs after getting pregnant and married at 17. She got pregnant by another man and kept it a secret for over ten years. Her husband has raised that child as his own. Her daughter is divorced and has a child she conceived with another guy before moving home with the child at the age of thirty.
1 has been married for 20+ years and seems to have a good life....but she lives 1000 miles from the rest of the family. She was but 9 when MIL left with the piano teacher.
They all get together for funerals.
MIL is still married to her OM, but she sees her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren about once every 3 or 4 years and seldom for longer than a day or two at a time. Two of her great grandchildren she has never seen in person; they are 3 and 4 years old.
It's the price she paid to be with her "soulmate".
Her XH (FIL) was married to someone else for 30 years. He died and now his and MIL's children call his widow "Mom" and their children call her Grandma. They visit her several times per year, even though she lives several states away.
ugh! I am soooo mad right now! I was in a perfectly good mood coming home from work, til I found a message on the answering machine for him about a loan application he did online for a vehicle. Just today I was thinking great I get to drive this pos van around for the next 7 years because of bankruptcy he wants to declare. So anyway I was mad and wanted to talk to him, because several weeks ago we talked about NOT making any big purchases and to PLEASE not use my ssn for anything. Well I called and left two messages for him and text him. I was going to call his work. And if I happend to get his boss tell her exactly what he's done to his family... well he called. I asked him about buying a new car and he said I didnt have any intention on buying a new car I screamed at him!!! "you didn't have any intention of moving in with **** but you did anyway" and I slammed the phone down. I have NEVER screamed at him before I'm just so pissed off!!
He called me right back and he said what do you want a new vehicle. I said no. I want you to come home. We chatted for a bit and then he had to go.
I knew not to respond to his email until I got some help... because of my blindness to his babble. Thank you LaLa, I did respond with your suggestions except for #1 I'm afraid to say that... he'll go straight for a divorce and then say see you aren't my wife!
This sucks so darn bad. I thought for sure he would have come to his senses by now. I peeked at his email and they're talking about adopting dogs. That's pretty darn permanent if you ask me, it hurts.
I am almost 5 years out from DDay. And when I found out he was seeing his co-worker(s), I went to the store where he worked and did some shopping with both of my children (head high, chest out.) I had not done anything wrong!
When I looked around, I could tell immediately who one of them was. I did my shopping and went right up to her register to pay for it. My kids were all over the place, and I said, "I'm sorry they are messing everything up."
She said, "WHAT?" She thought I was saying something about her messing things up. LOL! So I paid and kindly thanked her.
I saw my husband in the background completely freaked out. Completely unnerved. I mouthed to him with a smirk as I walked out of the store, "I hate you." (in a kind of flirty way)
He said later that when he told her I knew it was her, she couldn't believe it and felt "bad". Whatever!
The best part of it was after all my belly aching and crying he said it was so nice to see me strong and confident.
This is something I think you really need to learn, Soon. You need to get comfortable in your skin (and sexual---I've had to learn this is okay in my marriage as well.)
Respect for myself changed the whole thing, and I would not accept less than all of him. And he knew it!
Does your WS know it?
Sorry...your story has really moved me. It is time to stand up and claim what is yours!
you have got to look past that....and face your fear. Go read Mimi's thread on fear.
Whenever I get this way, I talk to my sister, because she will say all of this to me. Do you think if he D you, you will die??? Do you think that you will be all alone??? Do you think you could never be happy again??? Are you happy now????
I know Mimi will crack my butt for saying these things, but I tell you what, the day I told my WS that no, he couldn't stay with the kids at MY house, that what is he going to do if we divorce, is the day I took my POWER back for the FIRST time. I had already looked at my future without him, I knew that I would be ok. Does that mean I don't want WS to come home??? Does that mean I want to D???? Does that mean I don't want to repair things????
NO it doesn't, but I means I am not settling for anything less than what I deserve. I am not and WILL not accept going back to what my M was before A and during A. This is what my WS offered me this week. And I said no. And look at what is happening...good things. If he keeps fighting his own demons, I will do Plan B. I am ready. Honey, you need to look at the big picture. Yes, I know you want the kind of marriage we see Mimi and others who have survived here, BUT you need to stand up for it. NOW.....otherwise, you are going to keep doing this and it will make YOU sick.
I don't want that. YOU CAN DO THIS...I KNOW YOU CAN....LOOK INTO THE MIRROR AND START LOVING AND RESPECT WHO YOU SEE.
I'm sorry you're having a hard day. And I know you're mad, angry and hurting. But... sometimes anger is a good thing if you can direct it toward something constructive...
Forcing yourself to have the self respect that Anointed spoke of for one thing. Sometimes you have to pissed off before you’ll act or make a change.
Sometimes anger gives us the courage to act in situations when we wouldn’t normally have it ... Understand?
For example:
Sgt Alvin York... WW I Congressional Medal of Honor recipient, and the most decorated veteran of WW I. He tried to avoid being drafted because of his religious beliefs, he believed killing was wrong. He was denied conscientious objector status and drafted into the Army anyway. In France, York and 16 other men got turned around and ended up behind enemy lines. A line of German machine gunners turned their guns away from the front and toward the small American squad killing 9 of the 17 soldiers including York’s best friend and the squad leader. York took charge; he flanked the line of machine gun nests, killing 25 Germans, silencing 32 machine guns, and ultimately capturing 132 Germans.
After the battle he was asked why he changed his mind about killing. He said that he still believed killing was wrong. But when his best friend was killed he got very angry. And the way he saw it, the more Germans he could kill or capture the less killing they could do. Ultimately he would be saving lives.
It’s a true story and was made into a movie called “Sergeant York” starring Garry Cooper... It’s an old black and white feel good movie that I would suggest renting if you haven’t seen it.
Anyway...
My point is this, Take that anger and turn it into COURAGE. Do the things that you haven’t been able to do yet because you’re afraid to do them...
that would be funny... but mine don't run ;-p they sit in my drawer and smell my clean panties LOL!!!
up and down kind of a day. tm'd about going to get myself a new cell, he had added my name to the darn contract but they wouldn't let me sign it. so I have to have WH go in and sign it if I want a new phone I hate that. He tm'd me about sittin' down and talkin' about who's going to pay what etc. cause "we're not going to live like this for the next two years" meaning the length of the cell contracts. He finally added lines for the other two. I don't know what he thinks he's going to do, he's so sick!!
Hows the drama going??? Are you ready to be out of it????
I know I've been hard on you (snuggles your next.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />), but honestly, do you not see the similarities between our WS. I pi$$es me off to see him doing these things to you, and then I step back and see my situation is NO different.
Are you responsible for this contract??? If not, then go your own phone and plan. No need for him having "one" more thing to manipulate with you. My WS could do the same thing, but as I could care less if I have a cell phone or not, it would not bother me. And its good that he finally got one for the other 2, now when YOU go into Plan B, he'll have no excuse for not contacting them, and this gives YOU no excuse for NOT going into Plan B......
Honey, the stars are aligned for you to do this. You know there is trouble in La La Land, she is demanding things from him, he's having "trouble" performing, and the kids have no respect for him.....your timing at this point could not be any better.....Don't miss this train before it leaves the station....
Ok....no more soapbox.....How's the kids??? How's the scapbooking going??? What's on the plate for the weekend???
Not2fun
ps....TMTS....3x's??? you are SUCH a male.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
ok, i'm sure this is going to make all my supporters out here sick, but... I'm starting over AGAIN! Yes I had one HE** of a night. Went to a friends for an evening out. Got to talking. One saw WH with OW in the grocery store and couldn't believe he would go so LOW!! This person said she is TRASH, SCUM and a REAL LOW LIFE! Then I guess someone who knows OW saw them together someplace and reported it to WHs brother, and brother said something about OW being a disgusting ho. Well glad to know what he thinks of her, just wish I had a bit more support from ANYONE when it comes to telling him NOT A GOOD move on your part WH!
So after 2 glasses of wine-enough for me. WH brings son home from an outing and we start chatting and I lost it big time, bawling my eyes out to the point of almost not being able to breathe. He goes on about "caring" for me, not wanting me to be miserable, blah, blah. (Subtle wiping of the eyes on his part). He stayed WAY longer than he intended, he'd left his car running in the drive, I hope OW LB'd him when he finally made it over there. Anyway I was pitiful beyond belief!!
NOT2 I have the opposit of you, I wake up in a good mood and think I'll be fine!! it's early to late afternoon and the evenings that are hard for me.
Anyway I am starting over today, the new me! Yeah right! Well darn it I am going to try. New Goddess time! I've gotta do something different.
Oh honey I am so sorry. This is why you need Plan B though. You can't keep doing this, I can't keep doing this, Snuggles cannot keep doing this. It is not healthy for us, it is not healthy for our kids. This is where WE stop the cycle and put OURSELVES FIRST. It is VITALLY important. You also need to get a hold of yourself. Crying is ok, becoming hysterical is not. He may have gone to her and she may have comforted him. Not good.
Him caring for you??? Him not wanting you to be miserable???? That is all babble...you KNOW this. If he cared so much, he would be home. He would MAKE better decisions. DO NOT LISTEN TO SUCH CRAP, because that is exactly what it is.
Look at it this way, my DD14 told me she doesn't understand why I am doing all this stuff for her dad. He doesn't deserve it. He should love me for who I am. YOur DD has said the same things. WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE ARE WE SENDING TO OUR DAUGHTERS BY ALLOWING THEM TO DO THIS TO US???? Doesn't THAT pi$$ you off??? I sure does me.....yeah, I wasn't perfect, I am responsible for my part of the demise of my marriage, BUT I am NOT responsible for his STUDID decision to throw it all away, to discard his family like yesterdays trash, to treat his children like an inconvience. PUT that responsibility back on HIM. LET HIM wallow in HIS MISERY.....and YOU, RISE UP AND RECLAIM YOURSELF....
this should be our new battle cry......
We deserve better....
Our kids deserve better....
Ok....now, you are right, today is a new day, what are going to do for YOURSELF today????
Me, I took my shower, got dressed in clothes I like and am comfortable in (no sweats though...some capri jeans, nice casual T-shirt I got last night, hair is nice, and make-up on.....gonna watch all the men at the batting cages STARE at me when I walk in....just like they have been doing EVERY time I go there.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />). Cleaning up the house as we speak.....gonna take DD14 shopping after batting cages, and tonight well, I AM a little stumped on that one...but it'll come to me...
Come on Serenity....let's do this....oh and what are your thoughts on Plan B at this point??? You really need to come up with a Plan..you will FEEL SO MUCH BETTER AND IN CONTROL if you make a plan. That was another part of my awakening this week.....and I made a back up plan so WS couldn't get me off track. So, lets make you a Plan.....TODAY...that is what YOU can do for YOURSELF....
(((SERENITY))))
Don't you wish we lived closer so we could console each other through this???
WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE ARE WE SENDING TO OUR DAUGHTERS BY ALLOWING THEM TO DO THIS TO US????
Ummm... Hello... you should be teaching them these life lessons...
I’m fighting for your father, our family, my husband, my marriage and our happiness. Darling daughter I know I appear to be a doormat for your father right now. (You better not really be a doormat or your kids will know.) But in the end when you’re older and when all is said and done, my hope is that one of the lessons that you learn from this is how a wife/husband should treat a selfish wayward spouse with love even though they are still being selfish, ugly and all their actions say they don’t deserve it . (Loving detachment I think?)
How about teaching your kids to do the right thing even when someone else is not doing the right thing. It takes COURAGE to do the HONERABLE thing... It’s real easy to go the other direction and to be ugly, selfish, manipulative, and mean.
Quote
my DD14 told me she doesn't understand why I am doing all this stuff for her dad. He doesn't deserve it. He should love me for who I am.
Hmmm.... if by “this stuff” you mean the changes that you’re making in yourself ... They’re supposed to be for you, and you should be the one who primarily benefits from your changes... If your wayward spouse decides to come back and work on the marriage then all of the changes you made for yourself are just a side benefit for the WS... Even when you’re meeting their EN’s ... ultimately you’re the one benefiting because you’re learning how to be a better spouse.
Guess who benefits from your changes if they don’t come back.... yep... you, your kids... and possibly your future spouse...
I just think you're looking at some of this stuff backwards... Take some of this negative crap that's happening in your life and put a positive spin on it.
Thanks not, yep doing better. You have sun? We have had snow all day!! All kids of activities for today were postponed because of how much snow was expected, I think it's still coming down. SICK of it. I have never seen this much snow in my life!! It is beautiful though.
Thanks Amazin, I agree about teaching them that you hold on to your marriage, show them that divorce isn't the answer and forgiveness is important ;-) I sooooo pray this doesn't happen to one of my kids when they're married!
WH did come for dinner, even though it gives me "false hope"... don't care about the false hope, I just want him to feel comfortable and loved here and when he makes it back there, I hope he gets bombed with LBs!!
ok, decided whether I want to do something fun, or sit and read all evening... choices, choices.
Amazin...(serenity...sorry about the t/j... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)
It was kind of rough. Actually I was replying to the message, but decided that I was too mad, that I decided to erase and come back when I felt better.
Yes, I understand what you are saying. But you need to understand that being in Plan A for too long (as serenity is getting close to be...and so am I for that matter....) and continueing to look like doormats to our daughters, does in fact send the wrong message. Especially, when WS are boinking another WOMAN right in front of the kids faces. It is a delicate line here...
Now, Lala said it best on my thread, right around page 30 I think.....
Also, in MY case, WS has been verbally abusive. The other night when I invited him over to dinner, as we were eating him and I were talking about our workouts. I told him I lost another 2 lbs.. He asked me what I was weighting. I told him 138 to which he replied "you should be a maximium of 120". You should have seen the look on my daughters face when he said that. She had to leave the room, because she didn't want her dad to see the pain she felt for me. I believe this is what led to her melt down the other night.
Honey, I want to apologize for the tone in my posts to you. If it seems I was harsh and angry, it is because I am. Not at you, but at myself and MY situation. Its not your fault, but when I see you hurting, it just burns me up because I see myself and my pain. And it wasn't fair to you. You need comfort, I know that. Heck, all us BS need that. Anyway, I will try and be more gentle in the future and remember that I am not doing anything better than you are. I will also remember that I am NOT a VET....yet... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.
I hope your studying is going good for you this weekend....
amazin totaly didn't take it that you were being a butt head, you said what needed to be said. no appology necessary.
so didn't do anything fun! Found pepperband thread on good posts and read through that the entire night! geesh! Girls want to go shopping, yuck! it'll be more like window shopping, but at least we'll get out and do some walking.
NOT you gettin' closer to B? I haven't spent the time necissary to read about it yet.
good to see you...missed YOU too honey....how's it all going??? Have you been to the Dr. yet??/ anyway's, still praying for you and W2S....keep up with us....but not at the expense of your M....
Shoppin' trip wasn't much fun... by the time we got to the mall we only had an hour. Hey when I was growin' up everything was closed on Sunday.... so these kids are lucky... or not, probably better when everything was closed on Sundays.
Anyway DD14 thought she needed everything and anything. Wouldn't do it. Got the shirt we went for and she was nasty. Ended up taking her phone and she went without it for most of the day. She had to appologize for her rudeness.
Co-worker does the whole B.E. make-up gonna try that and probably buy some ;-)
I've been such a MESS. Twice this weekend WH asked when was the last time I talked to IC. Tonight he asked about when was last time I talked to doc about ADs. UGH!! I said so going to the doc about meds is supposed to make this all better.
We chatted he went on about he knows I'm committed, he just can't committ, he can't give me the happieness he knows I deserve. He can't be happy here... doesn't have any reasons though! Ugh... I gotta get in some good Plan A or there won't be anything "good" for him to miss.
I know... not supposed to talk R talk... well I keep "needing" to know where he is.
"i know things are wrong... things were wrong before..I guess I just don't have the feelings that your do. I can't say I'm sorry enough... but I know how I feel... or how I don't feel. It doesn't make me feel very good to know you are so sad... to see you cry... to know that i have hurt you"-his babble for the night ;-(
Mimi was reading on your thread... your WH mentioned a few times how he wanted to come home, just had to finish up with OW etc... my wh doesn't say that, he pretty much says he's DONE. Every once in awhile I think geesh, you were married 30yrs and this happened... do I want this to happen again, or should I just give up and start over new... ugh.
I'd love to figure out a way for OW to LB my WH...
I don't know why WH isn't "moving" forward one way or the other. We don't see much of him anymore, I think that's what my problems been lately, withdrawls from him.
He tm about 15 times Sunday while he was at work... just chit chat.
We IM'd for about 2hrs tonight while he's at work.
I'm just so ready for this to be done and for him to realize what a disaster he's causing AND COME HOME!
OMG.....you've been with me from the beginning, so I don't need to tell you that I've been in the SAME situation you faced with your WS this weekend. Wah wah wah whahhhhhhh....have you been to the MC??? wah wah wahwahhhhhhhhh...the meds.....(which, as much as I hate to say it....he is right....no it is not going to bring him home, no it will not stop the A, it will HELP YOU get a handle on your emotions....)
You do not need to know where HE is, you need to know where YOU are (try looking in your shoes....lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).
Yes, you need to get in some good Plan A...lets review the course work...
1. meet all WS EN's 2. advoid all LB's 3. NO EXPECTATIONS......
then you need to go to Plan B....FOR YOU.....so you can get off the carnival ride.
I love you honey....and I want you happy too....or at least at a middle ground...
not2fun
ps...how's the scrapbooking coming along....another winter storm headed our way...may end up with a snow day tomorrow....you know where it'll go next....
I'd love to figure out a way for OW to LB my WH...
You already did, Serenity. When he comes around, you leave your mark. You know she hates when he is around you so use that intel. I'll bet you haven't done the perfume or any of it that we suggested....have you??
Look, pull yourself up, hon and start putting some value on YOU! We have told you this, plus you see Not2 getting there...but we had to lop her upside the PC about a hundred times first, so I guess it's YOUR turn!!
You are admittedly a sweet person who loves her husband. He has had very little to say about what is "wrong" with you-in other words, he has very little to complain about. THAT is the reason we are trying to get you into Plan B, Serenity. He is using you and playing both sides of the fence. You need to put a stop to your end of the triangle. You need to trust that it WILL end between them, he WILL miss you and want to come home. But in the meantime, you need to protect yourself from further abuse.
I would suggest getting some ADs and shutting him out via Plan B asap. You just have to seal the deal completely and not let him in by getting an intermediary to handle the go-between of the kids and change the locks on the doors. None of this "Oh my, what was I to do-he just walked in the house!" You need to be firm and tie up all the loose ends so that it has the greatest impact.
The ADs are nothing to be ashamed of and will help you see things from a little less emotional VP. They will help you be strong, as will we.
Do you know that Dr. Harley says that people (especially women) who stay in Plan A too long are at a great risk for severe emotional trauma up to a nervous breakdown? You are the SANE one in this scenario and need to remain that way for your children.
Please take control back Serenity. I am really getting worried about you!
Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?
I am on something! I originally started it for the extreme emotions I got monthly- I asked the doc for an increase just before Christmas because I knew what was headed my way. Doc doubled the dose, it seemed to be helping. This past week though has been the pits.
I know what I have to do, doin' it though is the hard part. It's just scary. I guess I've become too dependent on knowing he'd be around, and then when he isn't I get upset.
LaLa don't want to change the locks. He'd be "forced" to take his stuff. Which it being here continues to be an LB for her ;-) He promised her in Jan... next week I'll get my stuff. OOOh he got a grocery bag of dvds other than that nada... still has clothes in the closet and all other things that belongs to him are still here in his "ex-house".
Ok-back to being strong... I can do this.... I took care of three little ones in diapers when he was away for a year (army) then again two years later when he was away for a year (army). I could pretend he's overseas?
Oh and the point of changing the locks is so he WILL be forced to take his stuff. Plan B is NO COMMUNICATION...let him be with her 24/7. I'm willing to bet that she has other LB's than just coming over to your house....and it will SAVE you from the emotional trauma of seeing him....
may be another snow day for us tomorrow... or ice! yuck! Anyway I've got plans on doing some realy deep cleaning if we're stuck here tomorrow... sort of hoping for it ;-) 'cause then I get to sleep in first!
Feeling much better today. noticed WH isn't just deleting my emails. He is actually saving some of them in a folder. There isn't any new email between him and ow.
no scrappin' yet, but I'm going to promise myself to get to that soon... maybe even if I only start with a promise to do an hours worth this weekend.
Took the kids for a drive and then we went out for dinner and got groceries together as a family ;-) OH MY Word, I just realized, I wasn't depressed doing it either! HA!
Mimi was reading on your thread... your WH mentioned a few times how he wanted to come home, just had to finish up with OW etc... my wh doesn't say that, he pretty much says he's DONE. Every once in awhile I think geesh, you were married 30yrs and this happened... do I want this to happen again, or should I just give up and start over new... ugh.
He would say he was DONE..sometimes.. when/if I asked him. The LAST TIME he left, he considered himself DONE. I'll never forget him saying: "FACE IT, IT'S OVER". I COMPLETELY STOPPED THOSE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS WITH HIM CAUSE I KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS GONNA SAY. Having RELATIONSHIP TALKS with a FOGGY WAYWARD is USELESS and HURTFUL. You give him a PLATFORM to JUSTIFY his AFFAIR.
And turns out, when he was saying he was coming home, he was BSing me. He said that he should have won an "ACADEMY AWARD" for his ACTING...moreso LYING.. He thinks he's DENZEL anyways.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
YOUR JOB is to PLAN A..meet EMOTIONAL NEEDS with the time you have available with him. Try to do ONLY that and nothing else. No amount of TALKING to him about how and why he needs to end the affair will make any difference...
This is too cute! I'm a big country music fan. The songs probably from last year... but I heard it and searched for it. FUNNY! Not anything I'm in the mood to say to WH, but it sure as you know what could fit!
Sarah Johns "The One in the Middle"
I can't believe you'd do that to me Use me You've fooled around and a'wrecked my heart She's just a skank rode hard and put up Well, good luck
Pre Chorus
I would've given you the finger on my left hand The one that you use for a wedding band
Chorus
(But) (And) now I'm givin' you The one in the middle The one that's a little bit longer And I got another one On my other hand So I can say it even stronger If you're askin' if I'm done Well, I'm sure not sayin' you're number one (No, now I'm givin' you) (The one in the middle) (The one that says we're through)
2nd Verse
I hope you're happy with your sad life That's right I hope you get what you deserve And when you're tired of TV dinners Remember
(Repeat Pre Chorus)
(Repeat Chorus)
Bridge
Well, you made your bed So go lay in it And you forced my heart and hands To the limit
Spoken
Ah, yeah, I've had it with you, darlin' That's right
LaLa is right.... You already know how to get the OW to LB him... She's intimidated by your presence in WH's life... She's worried that he's going to come back and work on the marriage... Make her worry until she sprouts more warts... You don't have to be obnoxiose about leaving your mark... Just getting your husband to spend more time with you and the family will make her head spin... (The lipstick, panties and perfume stuff might make it explode...LOL) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Played the song for the kids and 13yo says are you going to say that to dad? I said you know what the middle finger means? She said yes, I said "No, I'm not going to say that to him." They definately all think he deserves it. LOL
Snow day... got to sleep in. I still went in and put a half days worth of work in.
Haven't seen WH since... Monday.... and I'm fine! He texts me first for the most part.
well it WASN'T even snow, it was freezing rain and sleet... had to scrape half an inch off the windows- ok not half an inche, but it sure felt like it.
Trust me we're all soooo sick of the snow here, most of the older people are saying this is the kind of winter they remember when they were kids.
MIL called to see how I was doing. We've been emailing a little bit. But I complained to WH about lack of family support, I bet he emailed her and mentioned it. I'll have to snoop ;-) She's nice, not happy with what he's doing, but won't say anything to him. And she's BTDT, guess she must not remember the pain it caused.
;-) N.E. Actually the snows beautiful, school systems aren't too happy with all the snow days. The price of oil to heat our homes has really sky rocketed, but I love it up here!
I know what you mean about the Oil... I was going to put a pellet stove in our home... it was going to be delivered 2 days after my wife told me she was moving out... needless to say I stopped the stove and got my money back... That was in December.
LOL, yes still alive, sorry, didn't notice that my thread had been posted on.
So WH is doing LOTS of overtime... oh too bad for OW hahah, I hope she's hating it!!
Doesn't give me any time to see him either, but that's better than having him over there rolling in the... yeah anyway!
I actually looked forward to this weekend... to relax, not get up early, usually the weekend depresses me... not this time ;-) I know where WH will be... working, I'll be here with the kids and it'll be peaceful!!
so, wh is coming for dinner today... he im'd me last night saying can it be ready by (certain time)... the nerve... like it's a chore for him to drive the whole three miles over here and sit and have a meal with HIS FAMILY! I'm actually not in the mood to clean house and make a meal for him. I'll do it, but I'm tired, was down ALL day yesterday with a migraine. I guess I'm getting used to him not being around, how sad. I still want him home, but... he's a lot of work.
What you're not getting Serenity is that fixing dinner for your family and keeping a clean house is GOOD and RIGHT regardless of whether your H is home or not. IMO this is your purpose/mission as the WIFE/MOTHER of your household. Are you familiar with PROVERBS 31:10-31 (THE WIFE OF NOBLE CHARACTER -NIV)?
PLAN A is about making changes in YOURSELF..being the BEST PERSON that YOU can be..not just to PLEASE HIM...
Anyway it's not like it takes a lot to get this place cleaned, we usually have it pretty much picked up. Cooking is my down fall though... I would so much rather be doing something else, guess I should consintrate on that!
He's on my mind 24/7... I can't do anything with out thinking about him ;-(
SS, I feel ya girl on the cooking thangy...but..it has to be done...The Crockpot is your friend.. The Roasting Bag is your friend. The Roasting bag is my favorite, it's just cutting up veggies, seasoning the roast, chicken or porkloin and timing, same with the crockpot. They are easy and sooo good! Good Luck GF
He's on my mind 24/7... I can't do anything with out thinking about him ;-(
I totally understand where you are coming from on here. Please try to find a way to stop thinking about him 24/7. It will eat at you, and he doesn't deserve that space taken up.
Do you pray? Start praying to G-d everytime you start thinking about him. Mimi told me to shake my head, try that, but start limited yourself.
Serenity, there is NOTHING you can do to change what he is doing or thinking. Just yourself.
I have a crock pot, should start using it more often I guess. Dinner went well.
about thinking about him 24/7, yes I do lots of praying when I'm thinking about him. praying that things go bad between the two of them sooner rather than later and praying that he'll come home for good.
I'm worried that if I do x then it'll push him to file for D, but if I don't do it it'll make him think I'm happy he's out of the house. Then if y looks like a doable option what if that's the straw... I guess it's back to being patient and waiting the affair out, but what if my being patient also makes him think I'm fine with the way things are and he continues on with the warthog?
I've been trying to warn you to not make the same mistake that I DID.
There was a point that by staying in PLAN A too long that he fell even MORE DEEPLY "IN LOVE" with her. I EASED his PAIN over the AFFAIR, enabled the affair, so he could ENJOY it.
I'm worried that if I do x then it'll push him to file for D, but if I don't do it it'll make him think I'm happy he's out of the house. Then if y looks like a doable option what if that's the straw... I guess it's back to being patient and waiting the affair out, but what if my being patient also makes him think I'm fine with the way things are and he continues on with the warthog?
This is why you need to do what is best for YOU....and for Plan B. Don't second guess these MB principles. Personally, I think that once you go to Plan B, it will crush him. But, I do see that he is becoming more and more detached from you and the kids....
What are you doing letting your thread fall to the second page??????
Ughhh....girl, I saw your post on my thread, and I'm responding on here....
You can do Plan B...believe in yourself....I believe in you. If I can do it (and I am almost there.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />) you can do it. You are worth SO much more than this.
I'm gonna have to keep after you honey....
remember....you can run but then so can your stockings....lol
I am working on splitting our finances, opening my open account etc... but if I go NC with him that will just screw up what we have left of a relationship and honestly I'd rather have what little communication we have as opposed to none. As it is he's keeping the skank away from my kids and I need it to stay that way. He sees them here at our house. Otherwise he'd have to take them over there. I could come up with a hundred other reasons why plan b won't work in my situation... I'm hard headed! stubborn...
I have no doubt in my mind, Serenity, that WITHOUT PLAN B OUR MARRIAGE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN RECOVERED. PLAN B is what brought my H home. Otherwise, he would have remained COMFORTABLE with me as HIS FRIEND, the OTHER OPTION, and THE OW as his LOVER....
He had to feel like he was LOSING ME, he had to MISS ME, he had to get to see that the OW could not meet his ENs, before he ended the affair.
You run the risk of SETTLING for CRUMBS or less from him...
He will begin to DISRESPECT you as a woman who SETTLES FOR CRUMBS...He will not consider you as being VALUABLE or WORTHY...AND most importantly, YOU are not experiencing YOURSELF that way...
TRUST and BELIEVE in what these WISE MEN, DOBSON and HARLEY, are saying...
You are going to drive yourself crazy if you keep on this track. Mimi's last post says it best. How long can you really keep up this crumb routine and still stay in love with him. If you settle for a little contact for you than that is all you will ever have, if you truly want him back you need to let go. So let go already!!! Think about the fun the warthog will have trying to meet all ENs now.
Ya, and don't think I'm not still lurking keeping an eye on you, Not and queenie...
So, I have MY OWN checking and savings account now! Did it this morning when a staff meeting was put off! How's that for a step in the right direction! Named son as beneficiary. WH called while I was still working, went ahead and chatted with him, usually I'm out of there by then. Anyway he turned down the offer for dinner, which I had pretty much already knew was going to happen. What really PMO!! (piss** me off) was that he just goes on chattin' about daughter this, son that... blah, blah, and when it's time to get off the phone the only thing that's missin' is the "i love you"... everythings normal to him! UGH!! Don't know why Plan B would even matter... she's already meetin' all his ENs, he doesn't let me doing anything, doesn't want me for anything 'cept to raise his kids! I'm mad right now and wish there was some sort of punishment that adulterers (can't spell right now!) could receive! It shouldn't be so easy for them to distroy families like they do!!
Don't know why Plan B would even matter... she's already meetin' all his ENs, he doesn't let me doing anything, doesn't want me for anything 'cept to raise his kids!
Serenity my dear, that is an EN that you are meeting.
Plan B is for YOU!!!!!! It is to protect the love you have left for him, it's not to punish him or make a point. It's to protect you, and I am really beginning to understand this.
G-d is out there watching what he is doing. WH may or may not get away scott free, but that doesn't matter. G-d will turn this into good. I can absolutely promise you this. I can speak of it in so MANY ways in my life it's unbelievable.
Keep on learning about yourself, become the best person you want to be, and leave your WH to G-d. He is the one who can FIX and restore your M. Walk FAITH in G-d that each and every day he is preparing you for something that you can't even imagine.
I promise you this. But you have to let go of wanting to punish WH. What he has done is awful, disgusting, horrible, but he is SICK. He isn't the MAN you MARRIED. Remember he is an ADDICT and all he CARES about is his NEXT FIX. It consumes him.
Take comfort that he talks about his kids. Take comfort that G-d is watching over you and he is hurting more than you EVER could for what your WH is doing.
It will not be Plan B that pushes him away,,,,it is the AFFAIR.....
Your kids are old enough to develope their own R with their dad. He can make this happen as well. You know this. Its not like they are small. They can call him and make plans and vice versa. If they don't want to go to Warthogs House of Straw, then they don't have to. If he doesn't see them because of this reason, then that is on him. You have to step out of way of their relationship (by this I mean the relationship between him and the kids...). You cannot make them have a relationship together. I know you desire it, want it, but you are not party to this.
This is what I am learning about my WS and our kids. Especially with DD14. He is messing that up, not me. Actually, he has been messing that since way b4 A, but that is a whole nother issue.
So, do not not go into Plan B because of the kids. They will survive this one way or another. YOU, on the other hand, may not if you DON'T do Plan B....
That's something he will need to deal with. It is his responsibility to have a relationship with them.
Soon at one point in all of this you will need to let him deal with the consequences of his actions. You're still in a defender mode with him towards your kids and towards your own feelings for him.
More important than that... how are you supposed to move on with your life for your kids and yourself if you can't get past the obsession of your H?
What if he's one of the people that do make it? Do you sit back and give up all opportunities to meet someone else? What if you miss out on meeting that person that can be happy being with you?
Dear, you have been living your life for him for far too long. Time to start assessing what SOON wants in life.
Ok part one is completed... opened my OWN accounts at the credit union ;-) This is gonna be fun to pay bills from two accounts for awhile... doable though...
So anyway... who's hiding the step by step... dot to dot... instructions for Plan B... I mean the simple version, the kind a blonde can follow ;-P
Hey! Enough with this dummy, I'm a stupid blond routine. You are a blond GODDESS that has been put through a very terrible ordeal, and you are taking care of your kids and yourself at the same time. Soon you have an obsession with a man you have loved for years, that does not make you stupid... it makes you the loving soon that you are. What you need to learn is how to direct some of that love back to yourself.
I'm not Plan B expert (I'm no expert ay any of this), but two things you need to get in order are your Plan B Letter, and figure out who your intermediary contacts will be. I'm hoping others that have experience with Plan B will be able to expand on this.
You're in my thoughts and prayers... I think for alot of people they're afraid of plan b. Just an observation. You need to build up your confidence. Get strong emotionally, mentally, and physically and overcome your fear.
What are you afraid of? Not being able to stand on your own two feet? Loosing him? Being alone? You need to overcome those fears... You're alot stronger than you think...
oops NOT almost let my thread slip to page 2 again...
so WH was with the kiddos after school, I was on my way home from work and we were chatting on the phone, I figured because he knew I was on my way home he'd take off... well magine my surprise when I get home and he's still there, but heading out shortly... I was a good 15-20 minutes away, so he could have left... any way, short pleasant chat.
Then while he was at work I had to text him about the furnace freaking me out. He called and then came over. My hero ;-) (not, just nice to know he's available).
So I've figured out a few things to work on me... and at the same time I'll continue to make this a place he'd like to be and hope and pray like crazy that she's showing her true wart hog colors! AND continue figuring out plan B and thinking about wording the PBL.
You dropped to page 2 again...gotta stop letting that happen...hows it going??? just wanting to check on you...kinda tired of my own drama if you know what I mean....
weathers fine, little bits of snow here and there, no more snow days though ;-(
so much for "coming along" I'm back to telling myself I cannot Plan B... and I would REALLY hate to start plan bing him and not be able to follow though... so I'm backing off on that plan for a bit longer until I can really get my head around it... (starting a new thread regarding this... but I'll still use this one for the day to day jabber)
There may be more, but I am aware of only one Plan B that was shorter than mine. Still, whether a few hours, a few days, a few months, or a couple of years, IMO there is no more powerful weapon against the affair.
Exposure is like an explosion that weakens the structure and makes a few cracks, and Plan B just keeps widening those cracks till the whole thing tumbles down.
Well... and it's fine if you all give me 2 x 4's if you think I need them, I'm tough I can handle them, I just think Plan B will be wrong in our case... let me have it... I'm so into playing devils advocate... I'm serious I want everyone and anyone to hear me out... and then tell me they think I should still Plan B...
He started having an EA while I was exauhsted and not meeting his ENs. I was devastated, he appologized but said he just couldn't love me the way he used to. He said he'd been feeling this way for many years, and tried to fight it. If he continued living as if everything was ok, he'd become bitter and things would become ugly. He still "cared" for me and was sorry that it was going to hurt, but he moved out. I saw a new doctor, found out what was wrong and I was better within a week. He stayed with OW for 7 weeks... we spent some little time together I did lots of crying and pleading for him to come home... eventually he decided he should come home, it took a couple weeks to let go of her, but he did and he came home to "try again"... it took a few weeks but he started saying I love you again... I got this incredibally wonderful email from him saying he was so happy that I didn't give up on him and that he wanted to make a future with me. Things were fine for a couple months, he started missing her, or her him, don't know who contacted who, but he said he was going back-he left the day after Christmas. She's divorced(she cheated on her husband with another married man, then her DH died), don't know ANYONE on her side that could be exposed to even if they did care. I exposed to his mother and brothers, they all say it's awful but won't talk to him about it. Our best friends are going through their own marital problems... My family and everyone I grew up with are 2000 miles away! NO ONE to expose to!! So that didn't/doesn't help matters. Kids won't come out and tell him how disgusted they feel, they're mad yes... but he's their "pal" and things are fine when he spends little time with them, they're teens they wish we'd both just leave them alone. We are getting more money from his pay check now than we would if we were to only get child support. I am not filling ANY of his ENs except taking care of the kids, in Plan B I'll still be doing that. We have no one in common that could be a "go between". Plan B is supposed to be what it would be like if we were divorced, well, if we do divorce we're not going to completely be out of contact with one another, we would contact one another to make arrangements for the kids. I'm sure we'd still email each other often, and chat on the computer at night while he's working and his warthog has already gone to bed... not of that would happen if i moved to Plan B. I re-read about plan B in SAA, those stories aren't the same as mine.
I'm scared... I just see Plan B as being an ultimatum, choose me the one you don't think you love anymore or choose her the white trash he's addicted to, I believe I will be the loser! I think if I sit back and wait it out, he'll come to realize he's made a big mistake, he'll realize she is white trash and he'll be remorseful and want to come home. I don't think he's cake-eating or fence sitting. He's getting NOTHING from me besides he taking care of OUR kids. I honestly don't believe he's 100% sure about "her" otherwise he would have taken ALL of his clothes and other things around the house that belong to him, he hasn't... so I just keep thinking if I don't have angry outbursts, don't grovel and cry... if I just continue to better myself, I think I'll have a better chance than I would if I broke off contact with him and went dark.
Yes, you may be frustrated with me and that's fine... but please be specific if you have critisism and/or advice.
I continue to pray throughout the day that he will see the errors of his way and come home. He is not a believer in anything religious.
I think he will come home no matter what you do. The affair is doomed. But the problem may be that you won't WANT him anymore. That is my fear. Plan B really protects the BS.
But if you are feeling strong and like you are not losing your love for him, then go for it. Just remember, it is fairly hopeless if you DO lose your love because then you won't even want to try, even if he is BEGGING you.
This was kind of addressed by the guest speaker at church tonight...
A woman asked about forgiving someone who's addicted when they continue to feed their addiction.
The short answer was.... you're enabling the addiction... eventually you will end up hating this person and forgiveness will be very difficult. In this situation you should remove yourself from exposure to the addiction in order to protect your feelings for this person and eventually be able to forgive them....
Very simular if not exactly the same reason for Plan B.
so maybe I still have too much love for him to consider going to Plan B?... I have lots of plan A ability left in me, he's just not needing anything from me, because he's getting it from her. So I sit back and let them end it on their own?
I know you say affairs end... well his dad left when he was 3 to be with OW...the are still together, that's my fear!
Let's assume that you never go into plan B and he continues the affair right in your face for the next two years... He gets really ugly about it... You get extreamly hurt... could you forgive him? Maybe? Maybe not?
Dr. Harley say's the biggest threat to recovery after the affiar dies is the betrayed spouse...
If you're so hurt that you can't forgive him you're marraiage may not be recoverable...
That's why you do plan B... so that when the affair dies you can eventually forgive the wayward spouse and move forward with the marriage.
Yes!! She's nasty, thank you!!! I'm not a proud person, I've really lived a humble exsistance (that sounds riteous, I'm not), no not perfect, far from perfect, I've been silently judgemental of some people, but in all honesty.. I am so BAFFLED at this warthog, my WH is "above" her... or at least he is above her, when he's not WH, not rolling in the muck with her. It just doesn't make sense... I'm not trying to figure it out, I just want to figure out how to get him out of the mess he's gotten himself into. Ok, yes he's got to get himself out, but if there's anyway I can help the situation I want to.
Amazin, you are right, I don't know what would have happened had his mom know about MB and had all these wonderful supports-interesting to think about what could have happened.
I guess for now I'm settlin' for crumbs and that's good enough for me (realy it isn't) but working on my self esteem may help me reach a better point to where I decide Plan B is best for us.
He mentioned taking the kids tomorrow afternoon to do something... I would like to go, I don't want to be left alone, Sometimes he doesn't mind if we're together other times he does... if I really pushed he'd let me go, but I'm not sure what the best course would be right now. And I really don't know how the kids would react if he tried meshing them together with her and her two?? I would hope that they'd give him a hard time, but one can never really tell...
too much stress for one life, that's for sure! ;-) Have a good Friday all!
I keep saying this over and over to you, Serenity. I don't mind.
I felt the same way that you do about PLAN B.
PLAN A RESULTED IN MY H FALLING MORE DEEPLY IN LOVE WITH THE OTHER WOMAN.
I went into PLAN B as the LAST RESORT to SAVE MY MARRIAGE.
I went into PLAN B strictly for MARRIAGE-SAVING PURPOSES.
I, like you, NEVER LOST MY LOVE FOR MY H but he was DEFINITELY LOSING HIS LOVE FOR ME. He was growing to disrespect me more and more and loving HER more and more. DOBSON spells this out ELOQUENTLY in his book. I FAKED the DOBSON approach the whole while because I believed in the professionals.
From the horse's mouth, my H, what the PROs are saying is true. My H did not see PLAN B as an ultimatum. At first, he felt off and free to pursue his relationship with her. In actuality what he got was TO SEE HER THE WAY SHE REALLY WAS. It was JUST HER, having to meet all of his needs and SHE FAILED MISERABLY...with NO RELIEF provided by time with me. He missed ME. We had HISTORY. With them, it was GROUNDHOG DAY every day. Every day had to be a NEW DAY. She couldn't keep up that ACADEMY AWARD PERFORMANCE of being PERFECT and WONDERFUL every single day. They had to learn how to live REAL LIFE. He had to keep explaining to her what he liked and didn't like..about how to handle day to day living.
And Serenity, do you think that you HAVE him NOW? She HAS him. Don't you really WANT to be with YOUR HUSBAND? Don't you really want him ALL for YOURSELF? I couldn't BEAR to SHARE my HUSBAND any longer. That was another main reason that I went into PLAN B. I loved him so much that I couldn't bear to SHARE HIM. I wanted ALL of HIM or NONE of HIM...
What I'm saying is WITHOUT PLAN B, you are at HIGHER RISK of DIVORCE...and HIM losing all of HIS LOVE for you..you are not holding yourself up as a woman to be VALUED..so why should HE value you?
I'm not one of your usual supporters, but I read your thread all the time.
Just your title alone "VETS did Plan B work for you?" tells me you don't "get it".
MB is a self-help strategy -- not a manipulate-your-wandering-spouse strategy.
Plan A is about you. Plan B is about you. The end result is you may attract back your wandering spouse. But you should not be approaching it from what might "work" on him.
You need to find your personal power. You need to understand your worth. Where is your anger? Where is your sense of self-worth?
Why are you willing to settle for crumbs? And if you are willing to settle for crumbs, that is all you will get. You make it far to easy to walk all over you.
There is absolutely no reason for him to give up OW. Apparently its fine with you if he has both.
That is really the best advice that I have heard yet, thank you. When I start respecting myself, maybe then I will get some respect (pardon my Rodney Dangerfield)but I GET NO RESPECT.
Well, I am seeing that that reality is more my fault than anyones, I let this happen because of the low self image and sense of self worth that I had.
Gosh this whole learning and growing thing is hard. Couldn't someone just have told me this stuff instead of tearing my heart and my familt to shreads?
It's so sad and depressing. I never wanted to give up on our family and no matter what our family is changed forever. WHY?
quiet evening at home and on the mb. all the kids are at different "activities" tonight. I don't even want to imagine what/where WH doing/is... He'll be over tomorrow to spend time with the kids and a small fixing project that needs to get done... I could stick around and Plan A or go off and do something on my own... show a little independence? I don't know what I should or what I want to do.
That's kind of like what Abe Lincoln said.... What ever you are ...Be a good one...
You need to find something to get your mind off the affair stuff for a while...(On a regular basis) Exercise seems to do it for me... Or home projects.... Painting etc... Something that has a positive effect on your life.
I have been reading your thread Serenity, I have no advice just saying hi and hoping you are doing okay. I am struggling a bit myself. Thanks for posting over on my thread. It's nice to know there are people out there that understand what we're going through.
I vote for doing something while he is gone. In fact, I wouldn't tell him or the kids what you are doing. Oh and make sure you look your GODDESS best when you go. Of course, you are supposed to be doing THAT anyway. Let him wonder.....
Yeah, I hear ya on the friday nights on the boards...I was supposed to play bunco tonight, but it got cancelled...and tonight would have been a good night for it...
If they could track how many times a person tried logging on to the message board when it was down I'd win the prize for trying the most! I'm sure of it!!
It turned out to be an OK week. I spent time surfing the internet for alternatives. Of course there is NO replacing this board. I missed many of my fellow BSs!! And hoped and prayed that you were all surviving without the board.
Back when I started reading here and posting, I also signed up at a couple other sites that send out email messages daily. One of them really started tugging at me, so I went back and revisited the website. It's been a blessing and has calmed my heart a ton! No need to worry about Plan B- it was freaking me out.
Anyway, we've had lots of text message contact. A couple phone calls here and there. Mostly him calling me for one reason or another, never to "just chat" though ;-( He came over for Easter dinner yesterday and that was nice.
OHOHOH I almost forgot! I made a "video" for him. It has pieces and parts of certain songs and pictures of all of us. That, with a very touching letter had him with tears in his eyes (that he tried hiding!) on Wednesday evening.
He knows what he's missing, he just doesn't understand how someone could be forgiven for what he's done... plus he's said in the past that he never wants to put me or the kids through him leaving again... just gotta wait him out, and when he brings up the topic I'll let him know that it IS doable!
I am so glad you are doing well....I was incrediably worried about you. And I am glad to see things are going well on your end. Mine is a mess. And now that WS knows about the boards, well, I don't know what I am going to do....He says he feels manipulated as it is, and if he decides to get on here, well, any advice I follow will just be needless as he can figure out what it is I am doing. Its a mess...
Anyway, so glad to hear from you and so glad to be back...
Hey saw your post on queenies thread....if you email lala she can give it to you...she gave you her addy somewhere in your thread....I would post mine, but it contains personal info....
Well, the Soon that TMTS knows well is back ;-( jeesh talk about a roller coaster of emotions. Didn't wake up in a good mood! Darn it! Anyway gotta get to work, at least at work I'm sooo busy I can't waste time worrying ;-)
Hope each and everyone of you has something great to smile about today!!
Bad mood is OK dear. It's when you get into that down mood that I worry. When your in a bad mood you start to sound like Sugar Ray Not , and that's ok.
LOL... ok so it took me awhile... 2 days to get the whole "Sugar Ray" jokes... HAHAA Not! You gonna change your name? ;-P
The day was loooong. WH texted asking where something was... and then texted later about DD14. He's SO blind right now, and it's sad. He thinks he's got the kids respect and he doesn't! What a shame.
Anyway picked up a LARGE novel from the library... so I've got to focus on that... and get my mind off of him. I think that he is an unhealthy obsession on my mind... If I'm busy working I can focus on that and he isn't around much, but the rest of the time he is definately taking up space in my head. That I don't understand!
Decided I should post, dig myself up off page 2 before NOT comes hollerin' at me! ;-) (((NOT)))
Did you read MIMI's posts to you? I see you did not respond.
You know, she is right on.
Listen up girl. Mimi knows what she is about, and I suggest you really pay attention to what she has to say.
I am sorry that settling for crumbs is okay for you.
Not for me, I went plan B after 2 months of plan A. I don't share.
Best wishes for you, I hope you stop enabling the cake eating sooooon.
You have done a great plan A, and I hope you don't keep doing this until your love is gone for your WS. You know, that is what Plan B is about, preserving your love and not letting your WS get his fix. It is so obvious that ow is not meeting all WS's needs, or he wouldn't be the cake eating king.
Why are you letting your WS have his cake and eat it too?
Love in Christ, Miss M
ps. and by the way, plan B worked, BIG TIME, for me, it took all of 3 days for my H to come around and stop the A. You see, I had done a great plan A, and ow was NASTY. LOL
Yikes... how rude of me not to acknowledge her post to me! Thanks for asking about her post to me Miss M I just went back and re-read it for about the 10th time!
My problem is, as I've said before and as others have pointed out, I'm scared! Will add more, while responding to Mimi's post.
Mimi, you've been such a cheerleader, coach, teacher! Thank you. I'm sorry I didn't respond to the last post of yours. I could blame it on the boards being down, but that wouldn't be a good enough excuse, because I've re-read that same post a few times since the boards have been back up.
I'm scared! of losing him completely, but I can see that doesn't have to happen. Either Plan B works, I become a stronger person and he decides to end the affair, or Plan B works and I become a stronger person and he makes a real commitment to warthog. And if he does and we do D, then Plan B ends and we communicate as parents of our kids and nothing more.
I'll have a zillion questions I'm sure regarding Plan B, and I best not procrastinate any longer! I don't have a clue who we would use as an intermediary (sp?) And what all has to be done "legally" before one hands over the PBL? I mean do I have him take his name off the house? Do I ask him to get the rest of his belongings out of the house? I would rather him feel comfortable enough seeing the kids here, with me at work or out somewhere rather than him taking the kids to the pigpen! I sooo hope this doesn't make the kids feel like they're in the middle of this... now that they all have cell phones and texting is the way they communicate with dad I can see him asking them to tell me this or that etc...
Ok, gotta get to work. But I'll do some more thinking on this.
OH Mimi, what did you FAKE when it came to Dobsons "love must be tough"? I really have enjoyed that book and keep reading pieces and parts of it, maybe I've missed something.
You worry way too much about Plan B. I mean it is good to be prepared but it will all work out. I think in YOUR situation, you may not need an interm. Same goes for worrying about the kids and their R with their dad. You said it yourself, they have cells, they all know how to use them. And you kids are WAY old enough not to worry when they will see him. And NO he should not have any access to your house. He can take the kids out, which would probably be better anyway. Don't worry about him taking them to the "house of straw". They probably won't go and even if they do, it would be such a bad scene that it wouldn't happen again. And don't let him put your kids in the middle. You can tell the first couple of times not to tell you and they can tell him no, we are not in the middle of this.
now, for everything else, I don't know. His stuff??? I wonder the same thing, but then I think I will leave it all and let him worry about it. If he wants it he can set it up to get it. Not making this easy for him. He didn't for me.
Anyway, done any scrapbooking lately??? How's the book coming?? I am reading "Remember Me?" by Sophie Kinsella. She did the "Confessions of a Shop-a-holic" series. I love her stuff. It is PURELY fluff fiction. Very light-hearted, just what the Dr. ordered right now...
I'm scared! of losing him completely, but I can see that doesn't have to happen.
FEAR of losing my H completely is WHY I finally went into PLAN B. The longer I stayed in PLAN A, the longer I enabled the affair by making it COMFORTABLE for him, the MORE he fell in love with HER!
And plus, sad to say, YOU DON'T HAVE HIM! You HAVE LOST HIM if you don't have ALL of HIM..is the way I look at it..is the way I looked at it...
Well I am in the process of reading Love must Be Tough for the second time. And I'm reading World Without End by Ken Follett for something fun. Haven't done any other fun things lately, probably go shoppin' by myself tomorrow, tha will be peaceful.
Is there something I can say to WH that doesn't come out as a DJ or other LB when it comes to me not wanting the kids around the warthog or her kids??
Is there something I can say to WH that doesn't come out as a DJ or other LB when it comes to me not wanting the kids around the warthog or her kids??
It is NOT a DJ to say that you do not want her around your kids. Understanding this SHOULD come from LOVE MUST BE TOUGH.
He has got to RESPECT you in order to LOVE you.
This may sound harsh. I don't mean it that way.
It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to take care of your children.
If you do not STAND UP and PROTECT them, WHO WILL.
IMO, this would not be negotiable. It would be a matter of fact.
Your WH is not divorced from you. He is LIVING IN SIN.
I wouldn't for one minute ALLOW my CHILDREN to be around such EVIL.
STAND TALL, SERENITY. This is not something to be asking anyone about.
CALMLY yet ASSERTIVELY tell him that YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR CHILDREN TO BE IN HER PRESENCE...PERIOD..END OF STORY...
IMO, it would be EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE for him to do it and ABUSIVE for you to even think of allowing it to happen..especially at their IMPRRESSIONABLE AGES..
You are MISSING the POINT of an ESSENTIAL FEATURE of PLAN A...gaining your WH's RESPECT...
If you want to recover your marriage, I think you have got to get this...
You want him to VALUE you, to feel like he is LOSING a JEWEL..which, of course, you are...
You asked me what I FAKED out of LOVE MUST BE TOUGH..
Somewhere from that book, I came up with MY SPEECH to him about how I was "letting him go"..that I didn't want him anymore until he wanted me. He was all prepared for me to PROTEST his request for a SEPARATION/DIVORCE. My heart was breaking inside but I was able to keep it all together, believing Dodson's insistence that he had not seen marriages recover when the spouse did not take the TOUGH approach..
That was a MAJOR turning point for me to realize that...
Even now, my H loves, loves, loves for me to be TOUGH with him..
He hates it when I am WHINY...
Tough meaning, telling him like it is..me being STRONG and CAPABLE...
HEAD UP, CHEST OUT..I never told anybody here that I got that from him..he's always reminding me about MY POSTURE...YUCK..
Thanks mimi, I am working on the respecting myself so he will. I know whiny, drupin' head and shoulders is unattractive and undesirable.
I was not thinkin of letting them have anything to do with her. WH and I were having a convo earlier he said he wasn't going to give them a choice about spending time with him tomorrow afternoon. They'd rather sit glued to the tv, computer, video games. He was going to put them in the car and go. I said that might freak them out, He said I'm not kidnapping them. I said no, but they might think you're taking them to meet her. I said I don't want them being around her. He said he would give everyone fair warning before doing that. He really has me confused, I should stop trying to get in his head... I know if I were "in love" with someone and living with them I would have wanted my kids to be part of that new life... It has me thinking he knows she isn't good enough for our kids ;-)
Anyway, more praying for him to realize he's messed up and CAN come home.
Oh No, no, I don't believe he's in love. He might have thought so when he first left us. But I knew better. And I know better now! He's in a mess and I think he's finally realizing that. He's no happier than he was when he first left.
Well, doing lots of house cleaning today. Hopefully I can spend a good chunk of time reading Love Must Be Tough. Can't keep sittin' still, I know that!!!
Don't stress too hard over Plan A/Plan B. Please remember that there is no guaranteed "one plan" to marriage recovery. While the MB principles are here as guidelines to help you recover your marriage, they are not fool-proof.
You know yourself, your H, and your M history better than any strangers on this board. If you feel in your gut that it is not time to Plan B, then I say, "go with your gut." Only you will know when you TRULY have had enough of this treatment from your H-- only then will it be time to move to PLAN B.
Besides, who really cares what other poster's opinions are of you on this board-- or even what your H's opinion is of you at this very moment (because you continue to to allow your H to be a "cake-eater"). So what?-- you certainly aren't the first BS to allow it, and likely won't be the last. Honestly, if you feel GOOD about who you ARE and what you ARE doing... if you haven't lost your OWN SELF RESPECT, than hooey with what everyone else says/thinks about you. HOLD YOUR HEAD UP HIGH, girl!
I mean, seriously-- don't we already know that as a BS we've LOST our WS's respect (??). If they cared enough about us (enough to respect us and NOT be in an A), would we even be having this discussion?
And, forgive me for not having all the details, but isn't your H already moved out and living with OW? IMHO, he's already "on his way out" and somewhat PLAN B-ing YOU (in his own way).
If he's starting to see the OW's "true colors", if you get the feeling that's he's frustrated by his current living arrangements, MAKE IT EASIER FOR HIM TO COME BACK TO YOU (not harder by implementing PLAN B).
When was the last time that you had a heart-2-heart with him (and NOT a heated argument where you ended up pleading w/him to come home)? Can you somehow eloquently let him know that you can/will make a life without him if you have to, but that you believe your life will be fuller/richer if he chooses to work on the M with you? Can you tell him that you are open to having him home, on working TOGETHER to be a team? Can you invite him home with the promise that you'll help him remember a time when you both were in love with each other?
Be confident... not pleading. Act if you must, play a role if it helps you get through this... be who you NEED to be in order to get what you WANT. Never forget that at this point in time he's still YOUR HUSBAND-- now go out and get him!
We've never had heated arguments. Just about two weeks ago I gave him a letter that had me in tears as I was writing it. I told him how I felt about him, and what he'd need to do to come home. It was definately a heart 2 heart. He had tears in his eyes when he was finished reading it. I know many of you will say/think that it was fake. I know I touched a part of him that he's been trying to keep hidden.
He never wants to put the kids and I through what he's put us through twice now. Ok three times for me, kids don't remember the first. I say, it's not up to him ;-)
Yes I have a slight issue of low self esteem. Been working on it. No I'm not pathetic, Yes I can make it without him and he knows that. But in my soul I know we're meant to work this out.
I'm not sitting around pining for him. Yes, I'm still thinking about him most of the day. But, I have a peaceful feeling and I am for the most part happy. I'm truly blessed with my kids, cats, house, job, health... OH and my sister is moving (army) to my state!!! woo hoo!!!! Talk about a miracle that wasn't even asked for!!
If you feel you reached him a few weeks ago, then I say KEEP DOING MORE OF WHAT YOU THINK WORKS!... keep reaching out to him. Here's hoping he reaches back out to you.
Just wanted to give you some ecouragment and tell you that you're in my thoughts and prayers.
Don't get discouraged! Keep moving forward... You are in the right place to save your marriage. Believe!
Have you streached, changed and grown since comming here? YES... Keep it up... Don't stagnate... In spite of all this drama that your husband is putting you through...You will be a stronger, more attractive and better person when it's over. You will be OK... just keep chuggin on...OWN IT...BELIEVE IT...
MAKE IT EASIER FOR HIM TO COME BACK TO YOU (not harder by implementing PLAN B).
WHAT??
This person does not show understanding of the MBer's PLANS.
IMO, your marriage has a low likelihood of reconciling without PLAN B.
Your WH will remain your "FRIEND" if you allow him and he will see you on the side if you remain ACCEPTING of this and continue to settle for his CRUMBS.
You make the AFFAIR more tolerable for him...
You remain part of a TRIANGLE...on the lower rung of the triangle..
DOUBLE YUCK!!
It doesn't matter whether you respect my opinions or not.
Free advice to HELP you based on my experience...is all...
You and I are so similar in so many ways. I think we can both argue each others point of who has it worse and debate what way is the best way to go.
You know I love you, but there is one piece missing from this discussion that I want to interject. You and I keep thinking there is something WE can do to fix this. The absolute truth is that we CAN NOT fix this. There is NOTHING we do or don't do that will bring them home.
I understand the need to keep looking for the best way, the magic pill, etc. But that isn't it. But the answer is simple. Just extremely hard to do and is a process. And that's coming to rely on G-d for his guidance on recovering you as a person. The hardest truth, fact or whatever I had to learn and still struggle with is that I have NO CONTROL over what WH does or doesn't do. I only have control over what I DO. And I chose to fight for my marriage and walk away knowing that I gave it my best shot because G-d was my leader.
I guess in many ways, you have to buy into and accept a few basic things. One, that your WH is in an ADDICTION, if you accept that, then you have to TRULY COME TO UNDERSTAND, HE IS AN ADDICT AND THAT ALL HE WORRIES ABOUT IS HIS NEXT FIX, OF HER, OR MAYBE OF THE CAKE EATING IN AND OF ITSELF. Who knows, their minds are distorted and they aren't thinking clearly.
I have bought into the fact that Plan A and Plan B are our best options to fight the addiction because of many reasons. But mostly because it's a plan of action that allows us to grow as people and become stronger for whatever the outcome is going to be. And G-d will have his outcome regardless of what we are doing because he knows the whole TRUTH, he knows the whole situation and he wants what is BEST for us.
Did you know that one of my worst fears of Plan B was not having my Miss Mimi talk to me as much. And alas, its happened. I miss you lady. You helped me through some very dark times. Now that I am dark, please come into my light.
I think I forgot my train of thought along the way to work. And then we had our "little darlings" heading off to camp this week so there was mass excitment going on at school.
Oh yes, to be or not to be in Plan B. There are a few people on here who say I worked a great Plan A with what I had to work with. I have come to accept I did what I could, when I could, took risks and owned that plan and made it what I wanted it to be. I know I layed that groundwork that I had made changes in myself, that our life as WH knew it was no longer going to exist and that I loved him very much and wanted him home. At times the signs showed, thanks to Mimi bringing it to my attention, that it was affecting him. And at times it made no difference whatsoever.
And though we are told to not have expectations the reality is we do, the WH doesn't react the way we hope, it doesn't bring them home, etc. so we get hurt. And that's where Plan B comes into play. I could never imagine me getting to a place where my love for my H could be lessened, but it did. He did awful, thoughtless, full on WH stuff. Our minds are not capable of understanding that insanity becaue they are sick and addicted.
If you knew me in the begining you would know that there was NO WAY I was ever capable or even willing to consider Plan B. But remember MB is a plan of surviving an affair, not always recovering your marriage. Is that what I want, just to survive, NO. I want my MARRIAGE. I WANT MY HUSBAND. But he is DEAD. He doesn't exist and the person who is occupying his body is a monster that I can't stand.
Serenity, you and I have to recover ourselves first before G-d will bless us. Plan B allows for that to truly happen because we are no longer looking for those opportunities to Plan A them, we are no longer being hurt by the drama of the affair and their downright insensitivity to what the heck they are putting us through.
G-d is asking you to seek him, trust him and let him do what he is going to do with your WH while you are out of the way. I often came to a belief that what if me not going into Plan B was stopping G-d from doing his work? What if I were the block from my marriage being restored? I just simply wasn't willing to be that. Alas, Plan B.
I am asking you to walk in FAITH and TRUST him that no matter the outcome you will be a better person for it. And that's ultimately what G-d wants, is for you and I to be the women he always envisioned for us.
You are so right. It's what I prayed for was to give back to others. And I am very grateful for that, because it helps to reinforce that I am learning what G-d wants me to and walk through what I am supposed to walk through.
I hope you know that it's because of your patience, understanding, and firm guidance has helped me come to this place. You know I still struggle badly on some days, but the inherent walk that it's ok is G-ds success and yours as well.
ugh, checked email again... he said to her at the end of last week something about
"sorry about today, i'm going to start doing things right. I'm going to get the paperwork and file for divorce, something that's long over due. I love you."
Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Do you want to be insane or do you want to let G-d lead you into a life of peace and joy?
It's totally up to you, but Plan B is your ticket to some peace and the final chance to save your M. I hope and pray you are strong enough to see this and pray for the willingness to do whatever it takes to save your M.
I don't need to do Plan B. He's been Plan Bing me for some time now! He's not cake eating either. I guess I should have made that clearer a few weeks ago. He isn't trying to keep me hanging on. He's not been coming around much AT ALL. He refused to go to dinner with us for DD birthday. But then took the kids out to breakfast without me. He's finished with me! In his head anyway! If I Plan B'd him he'd thank me. I'm in prayer so much through out the day for him. God hates divorce, WH isn't a believer. I of course will continue to not LB, and put all legal things off as long as I can in hopes that she LBs him to death and he realizes he had it pretty darn good at home.
You are the perfect candidate for Plan B. Your WH is living with someone else; he shows no signs of wanting to remain married, he doesn't care to spend much time around you anyway and yet you want your marriage to be saved.
In Plan B you just ignore him (should be pretty easy to do) and wait for the A to implode on it's own. The difference between what you're doing now and Plan B might not seem like much to you, but rest assured that there are huge differences, not least of which is that if you actually do a Plan B instead of waiting for plan "lost interest" to kick in, you can define up front (in PBL) what it will take for him to return to you should he ever have a mind to return. It can prevent him from taking advantage of you in the future and might also give him reason to call you when the affair ends. Without knowing that you will take him back under specific circumstances, when the affair ends, his first thoughts will be that you could never take him back under any conditions. Your PBL can set those conditions so that he knows it is possible in the future, when statistics catch up to him and Warthog.
Your only other choice is to drag this out, doing nothing to heal and nothing to rebuild your life and eventually end up hating him and divorcing before the affair comes to an end.
This is what Plan B is for...
Now if you have decided you are done fighting for him, just file and get along with your life...
He's not PLAN Bing you. His PLAN is the same as it's always been. Keep my affair active. As I keep telling you, and as I have feared for you, he has lost RESPECT for you. He has to EXPERIENCE you as being WORTHY!
The problem, I think, is your own SELF-ESTEEM. That's what you really need to work on.
You shouldn't be worried about him THANKING you if you do PLAN B.
You would do PLAN B out of LOVE FOR YOURSELF..out of your own refusal to no longer be DISRESPECTED by him.
THESE PLANS are about YOU and FOR YOU..not about the WAYWARDS...
YOU would make the CHOICE to TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR OWN LIFE and NOT WAIT AROUND FOR LIFE TO HAPPEN...
YOU ARE THE MASTER OF YOUR OWN FATE..YOU ARE THE MASTER OF YOUR OWN DESTINY..That's how come GOD gave MAN free will and BRAIN POWER...GOD is behind you but he does not want you to just sit there and make HIM do all the work...
DO ALL THAT YOU CAN DO AND THEN TURN IT OVER TO GOD!!!
But you are being PASSIVE..you are not TAKING CHARGE OF YOUR LIFE ..and THAT IS NOT ATTRACTIVE to your WH or anyone else, Serenity..
If your marriage RECOVERS, YOU have to BE STRONG!
Start today in your work on YOURSELF!
So that you can come to say: "I will not stand this any longer; I will no longer let anyone treat me this way"...
In my view, PLAN A is done PURPOSEFULLY as part of a MARRIAGE RECOVERY PLAN..it is not a LIFELONG WAY OF BEING IN A MARRIAGE...it is a BATTLE PLAN..and after that PLAN is finished is time to move on to the NEXT STEP.
Serenity, are you telling us that you will no longer have a PLAN other than WAIT AND SEE...
Yes, this way, you will be headed for divorce.
If you do divorce, WE WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT YOU DID ALL THAT YOU COULD DO..
If you maintain your approach, WE WOULD SAY THAT YOU JUST SAT THERE AND LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU...
I'm sorry that you had to read that in his email. Mark is right. You should go to plan B. I know it's scary but you can do it. You need to protect what little love you have left for your husband. You separate yourself from the affair so that your love doesn't turn into disgust, contempt and hate. That seems to be where you’re at emotionally… ready for plan B…
I’m working on my plan B letter right now… I still have some kinks to work out then I’m going to post it so I can get some feed back… Plagiarize it if you want to.
Listen to what Mimi is saying. Your sitch and mine are so similar. I thought the same thing that my WH was Plan Bing me. And I believed he would thank me for Plan Bing home. But something happened to me in Plan A. Because I listened to Mimi and so many others Plan A became MY PLAN, and I began doing things that brought self-respect back into my life. It didn't bring my WH home, didn't even crack him, but it gave me a lift in life. It gave me the lift and courage to go into Plan B for ME.
I know this is scary. I know you are hurting. I truly know these feelings. I HAVE HAD EVERYONE OF THEM AND MORE. I wanted to die, I even thought of how to kill myself. I though that if I died then it would bring my hubby home and my kids needed their dad more than they needed me.
But all that's crap.
My WH has lost all respect for me. He treats me like garbage and literally has tossed me aside like a dog and then kicked to the curb to be picked up for garbage. And I BELIEVED HIM AND BOUGHT INTO IT. What I did was keep taking it thinking that would save my M and he would come home.
I was willing to do anything to save my M even at the expense of myself. But then through Mimi and so many others I began to believe that I was worth more than garbage and that if I TRULY, wanted to save my M I had to buy into doing whatever was necessary.
Steve Harley says Plan A doesn't ususally bring the WW home, but the process of doing both Plans does. And at the very least, it gives you the time, space and tools to move forward with your life.
I truly hope you understand that not such a long time ago, I couldn't imagine my life without my h. I couldn't imagine taking this step and living through it. But I am proof, that you can and be ok. It's one step at a time.
Serenity, like me, please let Go and let G-d have your husband and let him work out what he is working out. If there are self-esteem issues with you, then you are going to have to do YOUR work for your marriage to be restored, otherwise you will end up in the same place and I am learning that G-d will NOT let that happen.
{{{{{{{Serenity}}}}}}}}}}
We are here for you girl. I will walk with you through this every inch of the way. I promise you aren't alone. And most importantly I promise G-d is there with, cheering you on and believing in you as much as we do.
Serenity, your situation reminds me of that old story about the guy in the flood who's crying out to God to help him and three different people stop by in life boats and offer him a ride out. He refuses saying God will rescue him. Well you know what happens... the guy drowns and when he gets to heaven he asks God, "Why didn't you save me?" God replies, "I sent three people to you and you did nothing."
I know you're a believer. It is not an accident that you found MB. You are drowning. Perhaps your last life boat is Plan B. Do you jump on board or do you drown?
"sorry about today, i'm going to start doing things right. I'm going to get the paperwork and file for divorce, something that's long over due. I love you."
she send back "Thanks, I love you too."
(((Serenity))))
Sorry to hear about this...it had to be hard to see..when you first learned his password and was able to see their emails, I tell you, it was one of the reasons I put off putting the keylogger on my PC. And when I finally did, well, I got more than I bargained for (thats what I get for having a WS who never deletes ANYTHING....). But the good point to that was, he could not continue to lie to me about the affair. Now, I am also glad that I told him afterward that I knew the password so he could change it (back when I first was trying to go to Plan B....), because I didn't want to be "tempted" to see their crap any more.
Anyway, hon, I really don't have to much to say, since I haven't been the best of examples lately....but I will say that you need to listen to everyone carefully....especially that MIMI chick...(where's that dang rolley-eyes icon????....lol..jk mimi, you know I love you more than my luggage....)
I agree with Mimi about your self-estteem....you may not see it as an issue, but the rest of us do. YOU ARE AWESOME....YOU ARE WORTHY THAN THE TREATMENT HE IS GIVING YOU.....Remember that...you have been a dear friend to me in my darkest hours...you have held my hand, were one of the first to reach out to me, and have made me laugh when I thought I never would again....REMEMBER THAT....and now I want to return the favor.
I told you a while back we could do our Plan B together, remember??? Well, sista, I am there....
anyway, keep us posted, and you know what to do....
I'd like to add that Plan B takes the power away from the WS and gives it back to you. Believe me, I didn't see this at first. I didn't want to go to B so soon but I decided to do it.
Then about a week before B, Mr. Gray started communicating with me again after giving me the silent treatment for nearly 3 weeks after the temporary hearing. Angry because his butt was singed when my Doberman trumped his a--.
Then I REALLY didn't want to go to B but I HAD to and I knew it. It was about 10 days before Christmas when I went into B and it was absolutely the right thing to do.
Then he can ignore you all he wants but it's by YOUR choice, not his. Because you take that power away from him.
Then he can ignore you all he wants but it's by YOUR choice, not his. Because you take that power away from him.
You are so dead on about this. It's your choice, your plan and your decision.
That's also one of the reasons I believe in Plan A and B so strongly. It helps to give you some choices, in a situation where choices have been totally taken from you.
That helps you to learn about yourself and your walk in life.
So true what you speak! I am glad I didn't back out and wait to go into B!! So, so very, very glad! And thankful to those who pushed me and kept my mind on track to do the right thing and do it!
It is SO empowering! I wish I could express it better...or take the feeling and put it into this post!
I have learned a lot and I'm learning more each and every day.
To B or not to B?
I can answer that for you a thousand times over: TO B, TO B, TO B!!
i don't think she should necessarily go out dating BUT plan b would sure make him start thinking what she is doing. he won't have any access anymore. DON'T LET HIM THINK YOU ARE JUST SITTING THERE PINING AWAY FOR HIM! NO WAY!
Plan B and live your life and do great and look great as if nothing is awful wrong.
Keep your chin up. I know it's hard to have a positive outlook when you're hurting.
It might be good to do something to get your mind off the affiar for a while... do something for you or the kids... Then when you're ready ... re-engage. Too much drama definately drains you emotionally and physically. Take a break and do something for you.
Thanks, I'm doing well. VERY busy with work!!!! And running three teens here and there is keeping me from sinking ;-) That and lots of prayers from here! I know I'm becoming sronger each day thanks to God. I know I've got a long way to go when it comes to self esteem. I won't go and even try and make WH "wonder" about me and going out etc. That's very UNeverything I believe in! I'm standing for my marriage. He has to know that, he has to know that I am praying for u know who (s*t*n) to release him from his sinful ways so he can be reunited with his family.
I'm praying for my BS buddies, FBSs, and wonderful supporters!! Thank you all!!
Thank you Queenie, I find you awesome and strong as well. Don't you hate the emotional roller coaster that we're still on! Geesh! I have often marveled at the sameness in our situations. Then at times it seems like we're all so different. Amazing the uniqueness we all have in our lives!
Better now than a few hours ago. WH bought himself a new car. That made me sad, reminded me of the other times he's spent large amounts of money with out any input from me.
I hadn't said I love you to him in a long time. So I reminded him that I still did. And that I had been doing a lot of praying for him. He smiled and said he needs all the prayers he can get. I asked him to please not be so hard and closed up to possibly seeing signs from God. He said he wouldn't. He doesn't believe the way I do. Religion was never really discussed and I wish it had been. I'm praying for his heart to soften and for him to return home.
Lucky you with the spring weather! Sure we have sun, but we still have two feet of packed snow on the lawns... it'll take forever for it to melt!!
My WH went out and bought my daughter a car and strapped her with a huge car payment. That was certainly a sore subject with me and in some ways the really start of his demise. Mine thinks he has a great relationship with G-d.
Plan B is easier in so many ways. I just don't see the drama and I love that. I hold my love for him in a little compartment in my heart, tucked away safely while G-d takes care of him. I walk in FAITH that my M will be restored and that is the blessing that everyone talks about.
But if not, I am ok with what G-d is doing in me and will continue becoming stronger and blossoming. You and I love our H's so much, but they aren't there right now. So we need to take care of ourselves and the love we have for them.
Hey there Queenie. Sorry you couldn't sleep last night. I stay up way too late, maybe that's why I don't have trouble sleeping. Have decided if you'd try to take something so you could get some restful sleep? I would hate not being able to sleep, I think you need to be well rested to take care of yourself emotionally.
I'm here... but not as often lately. Been keeping busy with work and the kids. WH is still way-wayward. No gettin' through his thick head... so I'm doing a better job of letting God take care of what needs to be done. Praying often for WH to soften his heart, see the signs that God is putting in front of him, etc.
By telling this next bit of information it really gives up who I am, if for some reason someone were to come looking for me. No big deal I don't think I've been too brutal on anyone 'cept warthog ;-)
I'm on the receiving end of a wonderful unasked for prayer/miracle, whatever you want to call it! My sister who is 10yrs younger than me did something silly and followed in big sis's footsteps and joined the Army. Then she was stationed in Korea where she met her DH. They then got stationed in Washington State... about as far away from me as you can get (stateside). He did two tours in Iraq, then went to recruiting school. She called the other night to let me know they are being sent HERE!!! This is just too good!!! Depending on where they decide to live they'll be at the most an hour away, but could be as close as down the street! I'm soooo excited!! They will be here in less than a month! I go from having NO ONE but my kids for family, to having my sis, her dh, and their two little boys!!!!
How are you hanging in there? Are you still on your Plan A? If so, do watch out for expectations...I see them creeping back in there in your last few posts. Your reluctance for going into Plan B makes a little more sense now. You fear complete isolation don't you? You can always keep it on the backburner and implement later now that you will have a support system near by.
How are the kids these days?
I keep praying for your family dear. Keep your head up OK.
so I'm doing a better job of letting God take care of what needs to be done. Praying often for WH to soften his heart, see the signs that God is putting in front of him, etc.
What you have shared lets me know that YOU of ALL people know how to FIGHT BATTLES...how to WAGE WAR..
It bothers me to see you remaining SO PASSIVE...
It's time to focus on PRAYER after you've done all that you can do...
GOD doesn't want us to sit back and let HIM do ALL the WORK...
Had you ever thought that GOD could be working through ME/through US, encouraging you to move forward with PLAN B...
I get so concerned about folks not working THE PLANS to RECOVER their marriages...
i didn't post here bust i read many of harley's books, i read post after post and I even had a few sessions with jennifer harley who helped write "suriviving an affair"
i went into plan B only in the hopes of restoring my marraige
if that's what a person wants from plan B, and their marraige is not restored, i don't beleive that plan B works for them
i never wanted to use plan B to give myself time and distance so that i could "lose my love" for my husband or to get over this
If/When that happens, i believe it will be in it's own time regardless of if plan B was used
ivebeenwaiting, I read your thread. I'm sorry that you are where you are after so many years.
I won't say never, but as of right now Plan B doesn't fit well with me. I know I have many Vets who've been supporting me and cheering me on since I first started posting in December. I don't mean any disrespect to any of YOU! I do appreciate your support. I just haven't been convinced that being dark in Plan B with the possibility of him never coming home is better than what I/we have right now. I can't shut him out of my life and expect him to believe that I still love him. I know I have a lot of learning and growing to do. I have huge self-esteem issues to work on, I keep putting that off... because I'm not sure where to begin.
I'm not hopeless! I'm doing the best I can with what I feel in my heart.
I am so HAPPY for you that your sis is moving by you. That will be wonderful for you to have that support around you. You need it. About Plan B...I know what you mean. But as long as you can keep a gauge on how long you can handle the current situation, you will be ok. I know for me that unless there is no contact I cannot keep doing this. It is way too hard for me.
Anyway, this is about you and not me....hang in there honey, one day the snow will melt, the flowers will bloom, the sun will shine again, and we will all be stronger and happier people to enjoy it all...
Son 16 asked if WH was coming to dinner. I said he was invited, but probably not. Kids don't ask for or about him too much, they can text him at anytime, and he them. But when they ask about him it's sad.
ALMOST all of the snow is gone... geesh, I saw some tulips coming up... where I really didn't think they would have much of a chance because basically the soil isn't soil it's mostly sand. I am soooo looking forward to getting out and making the yard look nice!
You still don't seem to understand that, IMO, WITHOUT DOING PLAN B, he is MORE LIKELY to fall more deeply in love with her...
PLAN B gives you a GREATER likelihood of RECOVERY...
I just can't understand how come you believe YOU know more about what results in MARITAL RECOVERY than DR. HARLEY...
I'm SAD for you, Serenity...
Unlike you, I wanted to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to save our marriage...
PLAN B was the ONLY OPTION...
It was PLAN B that brought my H home...that's why I'm such a strong advocate of it...
You don't seem to understand..
I made it clear to my husband in a way that he FULLY UNDERSTOOD that I was not just blocking him out of my life...
I made it CLEAR to him that I DID PLAN B BECAUSE OF MY LOVE FOR HIM..that I DID NOT WANT TO LOSE MY LOVE FOR HIM..
HE DIDN'T LOVE ME at the time..I LOVED HIM...but he felt like he DID NOT LOVE ME...
I didn't want him back until HE FELT LOVE FOR ME AGAIN...that's what can happen during PLAN B..it's a case of ABSENCE MAKING THE HEART GROW FONDER..as Dr. Harley says..HE MISSED ME AND FEARED LOSING ME...
You still don't seem to understand that, IMO, WITHOUT DOING PLAN B, he is MORE LIKELY to fall more deeply in love with her...
Either way doing plan B or not doing it, I don't control his "love" for her... I just keep hoping and praying she's the scum I've been told she is.
Quote
I just can't understand how come you believe YOU know more about what results in MARITAL RECOVERY than DR. HARLEY...
I don't know more than Dr. Harley, I know who my husband WAS, I know myself, and I know GOD, and I'm not giving up.
Quote
Unlike you, I wanted to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to save our marriage...
I want EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to save my marriage as well.
Quote
It was PLAN B that brought my H home...that's why I'm such a strong advocate of it...
can you be totally sure that he wasn't already considering coming home? because with my wh, I never had to "find" him in his affair-from day one he didn't hide it, with him there is no fense sitting he KNOWS what he wants- out!
Quote
it's a case of ABSENCE MAKING THE HEART GROW FONDER..as Dr. Harley says..HE MISSED ME AND FEARED LOSING ME...
There's always the opposite of that as well "out of sight out of mind" As it is I'm "absent" from him 'cept for about 10 minutes a week that it takes us to go over the bills to decide how much money he'll take for the week.
Don't get me wrong here MIMI, I appreciate the support you've been giving me all along. I'm still not convinced it'll take plan B to get my husband (the one that loves me) to come home. I think it'll take a miracle from God.
I remember when I first started to consider having to go into Plan B, I was scared siftless that out of sight, out of mind. The real truth beyond any of this or that is we simply don't know what is going on in our WW minds. They are the men we used to know and maybe we really didn't even know them then.
We only know who we are and what is going on in our heads, and what we want is for our M to be restored.
So here I am almost a month into Plan B, today is 11 months from D-day and my WH is still absolutely in control and no sign of changing or coming home. In fact just the opposite.
What I have learned through Johnstwin, Mimi, Mark, and Foreverhers is that G-d will turn this into good for us, but we have to be willing to take the chance and let our H go and Let G-d have them. We can't control them, we can't change them because we aren't G-d. Only G-d can, and is it possible that us staying in the picture, mucking up the water is blocking G-d from doing what he wants to do which I believe is to ultimately restore our M.
You, I, Not, and the rest simpley don't know what it will take for our H to come home. We can't, we don't see the bigger picture, but I can assure you G-d does. If it will take a miracle from G-d like the parting of the red sea for the Jews, maybe Plan B is giving G-d the opportunity to create the miracle for it to happen.
Please consider, if Plan A hasn't brought him home, which in 85% of the cases it doesn't, and yours isn't any closer to coming home, what would it hurt to try Plan B if in the end your M may not be restored, but you were a better person for it. I so remember when personal recovery was nothing I desired, just my M being restored, but somewhere along the journey I realized that for my M to be restored I needed to become who G-d needed me to be, because who I was drove my H away and had a part in the destruction of my M.
Had you ever thought that GOD may be working through ME, through us to encourage you to do PLAN B?
Another PURPOSE of PLAN B is for your WH to REALIZE the SCUM she is. That is what MY HUSBAND and other WAYWARDS learned during PLAN B..the OW can't keep it up 24/7....
I can't convince you and I won't try anymore.
Yes, I'm POSITIVE that PLAN B brought my H home and HE WAS NOT PLANNING TO COME HOME UNTIL THEN...Remember, I've lived with him for the past 4 years and talk to him about it...I can't say that will happen in your case..but for sure, YOUR WAY, has a LOW, LOW LIKELIHOOD of success...YOUR WH IS NO DIFFERENT OR SPECIAL THAN OTHER WAYWARD..AND NEITHER ARE YOU DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER BETRAYED SPOUSE...
In PLAN B, the OW had to meet his needs 24/7 without any HELP from me, and SHE FAILED, BIG TIME...and he wanted the HELP from me..to make it better..to FILL IN the GAPS and I WAS NOT THERE and HE MISSED ME...
I don't think I have the WORDS to explain it any better...
YOU HAVE GOT TO BELIEVE IN THESE CONCEPTS and IN THESE PLANS...BELIEVE THAT GOD BROUGHT YOU HERE..so you can USE THEM and US...
IMO, you are making a BIG, BIG MISTAKE that will likely cost you your marriage...
This is a CHOICE that you have made...to be PASSIVE...
It's like you making the CHOICE not to opt for the CANCER SURGERY that has a CHANCE of SAVING YOUR LIFE..rather than have the SURGERY, you are choosing the PRAY for a MIRACLE... ..I DON'T GET IT...but I'm no longer gonna beat my head up against the wall with you...
GOD HAS PROVIDED YOU WITH THIS OPPORTUNITY and it is YOU that is passing it up...
It may seem that I am being hard on you but I wouldn't post this to you if I did not CARE...
I WANT SO DEEPLY FOR YOU, THE HAPPINESS THAT I EXPERIENCE IN MY LIFE EACH DAY..
if Plan A hasn't brought him home, which in 85% of the cases it doesn't, and yours isn't any closer to coming home, what would it hurt to try Plan B if in the end your M may not be restored, but you were a better person for it. I so remember when personal recovery was nothing I desired, just my M being restored, but somewhere along the journey I realized that for my M to be restored I needed to become who G-d needed me to be, because who I was drove my H away and had a part in the destruction of my M.
Queenie said it quite well.
Though it is scary to let go of him and even Dr Harley says that he only suggests separation as a last resort, the fact is that you are already separated. As you pointed out, you only see him about ten minutes per week now.
So I hear you asking the question, "What would Plan B do for him?" But that is really the wrong question. The correct question is "What will Plan B do for me?"
While if he doesn't see you at all, he might miss you, and if he gets nothing in the way of ENs being met from you it puts the pressure on the warthog to do the job all alone, but those are really only side effects of Plan B.
The purpose of Plan B is for YOU. It is so that you can live a life that does not keep you being hurt by the affair daily. It includes being free from being stood up by him and waiting by the phone to hear from him and jumping through hoops to make everything just right for him when he comes to see the kids only to have him not come inside or not show up at all.
Plan B lets you remain sane in the way you live your life, in spite of his insanity. Plan B lets you stabilize your children's lives so they aren't living in constant turmoil. It lets you sleep at night instead of worrying about whether what you said will help or hurt your cause.
And it lets any love you have left for him survive since continuing the way he is acting is a huge love buster and will eventually cause you to not only no longer love him, but to hate him at which point even if he were to beg you to let him come home, you would be likely to refuse.
I also lets the stress level of your life drop to manageable proportions. If you keep doing a real Plan A for too long, it takes your toll on your health. Stress increases your likelihood of heart and blood pressure problems, which we all know about. But it also increases your risk of infection from opportunistic diseases that your body can normally defend against without any trouble. I am personally all too familiar with this fact, having contracted a skin infection from a bacteria that is so common that everyone normally has it on their skin and it is in the air and ground all around us yet seldom causes any reaction in people at all. But it ate a 4 inch by 8 inch whole in the skin of my chest that required two surgeries, two week long hospital stays, 8 weeks off work, 4 without pay, and loss of any chance at a vacation for an entire year. It took many months of recuperation to have anything resembling normal life (could not take a shower from mid-January till early April) and to this day it still looks like a cube steak glued to my chest and there is a nerve that when stimulated somehow feels like I have just been plugged into the wall outlet.
What you fear more than that he will forget you if he doesn't have a reminder that you are still around is that you will forget him...
In days before the ability to create fire on demand, there were those who were responsible for carrying fire from place to place. While this sounds simple, it is anything but. If you carry a torch, it only lasts a short time and then is gone for good. If you try to carry a small flame such as a candle, it can easily be blown out by the wind. If you attempt to carry a continuing fire around and keep stoking it to keep it burning, you will seldom reach your goal as you can't count on finding suitable fuel along the way and so must carry that as well. If the road becomes hard you must abandon the source of keeping the fire burning in order to make progress.
So what these keepers of the fire did was to find a way to keep just a few tiny embers burning that could be carried along by only one person. No one else had to be involved, only the keeper of the flame.
And when the destination was reached, the fire keeper could turn that tiny glowing ember into a usable fire with only additional fuel being required instead of starting from scratch.
Your job in Plan B is to keep the embers glowing. You can't carry the entire fire along without his help to keep it going. Unless he adds to the fire it will eventually die and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.
But while you still have a tiny glowing ember of love left for him, if you nurture that ember and protect it from his efforts to extinguish even that, you will have enough there to turn it into a full blown conflagration on the day it is needed, the day he is ready to come home to you.
Statistically, that day will come. Though it is possible that his affair could be one of those statistical outliers that last forever, it is more likely that it is a typical affair that will eventually implode of its own accord and collapse of its own weight. In that case, he would be ready to come home if he knows how to get there. This is why a Plan B letter is better than simply drifting further apart. It gives him a roadmap to follow to get home when the affair is over, which it will eventually be in all but the most statistically insignificant of cases.
But Plan B does something for you that nothing else will do no matter how hard you try. It keeps you in love with him just enough that when he is ready to follow that roadmap, you are there waiting for him and ready to turn that ember back into flame. Without it, you will no longer want him and all you have done so far will be for nothing.
Plan B isn't about giving up your marriage. It is about keeping your hope alive...
[/quote]There's always the opposite of that as well "out of sight out of mind" As it is I'm "absent" from him 'cept for about 10 minutes a week that it takes us to go over the bills to decide how much money he'll take for the week.
Don't get me wrong here MIMI, I appreciate the support you've been giving me all along. I'm still not convinced it'll take plan B to get my husband (the one that loves me) to come home. I think it'll take a miracle from God.[/quote]
Serenity,
There is no doubt that your head and heart need to be in synch going into Plan B. It sounds like you are just not emotionally ready to let go. When I say let go, I don't mean give up. I mean, let go and let God.
I see it as a way of truly stepping out on faith and giving your H over to God. You can't control his choices. You remove yourself from the emotional turmoil. You don't have to watch and monitor what is going on in his A, you start to focus on yourself and make a good life for yourself understanding that when he is ready to get on board and work on the M (which will be his choice to do so or not) he will meet the conditions that you set to regain your trust and set the foundation for a better M.
Right now, he can wean himself from you and slowly detach from you with your consent. He does not have to feel any consequences for his actions...you are still a part of the triangle..he is free to have his needs met by speaking to you if only for ten minutes a week...it's still a need..and eventually, he may not even want the ten minutes because he is sure you will always be there available if he wants to speak to you and have a need met...he is free to fall deeper in love with the OW without any conflict about it whatsoever...Plan B removes you from the pain of his choices and it allows you to save whatever amount of love you have for him in case reconcilliation is an option...IMHO, the respect you gain by enforcing boundaries is priceless. It will do wonders for your self-esteem.
You will come to make your own decisions in your own time. Just think about what types of choices you'd make if you weren't afraid of being out of sight and out of the mind of your WH. Making tough choices even when you are afraid sometimes brings the most success......When you start to move out of fear of Plan B, and start to embrace your own personal stregnth and power, it will become easier to see the benefits of Plan B.
No one here can force you to go into Plan B, however, you are being encouraged because it gives you an opportunity to possibly reach recovery of your M and DEFINITELY recover yourself.
I sooo respect you and your advice. You are offer so much WISDOM..
But, I think you may be missing something which I think I GET about what Serenity is saying..
Please excuse me, Serenity, if I'm wrong and there's a GREAT CHANCE that I am WRONG...
Mark, you said these things...
Quote
So I hear you asking the question, "What would Plan B do for him?" But that is really the wrong question. The correct question is "What will Plan B do for me?"
This is MY CONCERN about Serenity..her SELF-ESTEEM..she is NOT CONCERNED about HERSELF..and that's a HUGE part that I left out of my last post to her. Her WH cannot/will not LOVE her UNTIL she begins to LOVE HERSELF..
Quote
While if he doesn't see you at all, he might miss you, and if he gets nothing in the way of ENs being met from you it puts the pressure on the warthog to do the job all alone, but those are really only side effects of Plan B.
I RESPECTFULLY disagree with you on this point. IMO, THIS IS THE PRIMARY VALUE of PLAN B. Read over again what DR. HARLEY says about PLAN B. If I can find it, I will post it. DR. HARLEY DOES NOT describe PLAN B as PRIMARILY being FOR the WS. IT NEVER WAS THE CASE FOR ME...For me, IT WAS THE LAST RESORT PLAN FOR RECOVERY OF OUR MARRIAGE..
Quote
The purpose of Plan B is for YOU. It is so that you can live a life that does not keep you being hurt by the affair daily. It includes being free from being stood up by him and waiting by the phone to hear from him and jumping through hoops to make everything just right for him when he comes to see the kids only to have him not come inside or not show up at all.
Again, speaking FOR SERENITY..This does not interest HER. I think THIS is the SIDE EFFECT of PLAN B. When I went into PLAN B, it was PRIMARILY as a PLAN to recover my marriage. I didn't care that much about being stood up by my husband. I continued to want to SEE HIM and to be with him AT ANY COST. Just like Serenity, I continued to have MUCH LOVE for him. I had lived for YEARS with that stuff. My SELF-ESTEEM began growing as a result of the support here and SKY-ROCKETED as a RESULT of PLAN B..but I did not know that THEN...
Quote
Plan B lets you remain sane in the way you live your life, in spite of his insanity. Plan B lets you stabilize your children's lives so they aren't living in constant turmoil. It lets you sleep at night instead of worrying about whether what you said will help or hurt your cause.
SORRY..NONE of this was true for ME during PLAN B and I don't want others to think that this may be the case. This is why Dr. Harley recommends antidepressants during PLAN B. I was not sane. I had sleepless nights. I LONGED FOR MY HUSBAND. THE ONLY REASON THAT I WAS ABLE TO KEEP GOING BECAUSE I BELIEVED IN MY HEART THAT IT WAS THE ONLY OPTION I HAD LEFT TO RESTORE OUR MARRIAGE!!
Quote
And it lets any love you have left for him survive since continuing the way he is acting is a huge love buster and will eventually cause you to not only no longer love him, but to hate him at which point even if he were to beg you to let him come home, you would be likely to refuse.
I agree with you on this INTELLECTUALLY but I NEVER GOT THERE..I continued to LOVE MY HUSBAND...but may have EVENTUALLY lost my love for him..but MY LOVE BANK was so full I guess. We had been MARRIED for so long and had had many PREVIOUS great years before the affair...
Quote
What you fear more than that he will forget you if he doesn't have a reminder that you are still around is that you will forget him...
I'm not HEARING this from Serenity, Mark. She FEARS that HE WILL FORGET HER and I'm trying to help her to BELIEVE that HE WILL NOT!!
Quote
Plan B letter is better than simply drifting further apart. It gives him a roadmap to follow to get home when the affair is over, which it will eventually be in all but the most statistically insignificant of cases.
EXACTLY!!
Quote
Plan B isn't about giving up your marriage. It is about keeping your hope alive...
So, I say PLAN B isn't about giving up your marriage. PLAN B is just like it says, A PLAN..
IMO, it's YOU that is GIVING UP YOUR MARRIAGE..BY NOT WORKING THIS PLAN...
What I'm saying is discussed on pages 79-83 of SAA. Nothing on those pages states how PLAN B is FOR THE betrayed spouse and I read those pages over and over again during MY PLAN B...
And HERE is what DR. HARLEY states in the article on this website..
Quote
But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.
Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.
So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?
While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."
Mimi you explained plan B so well....I also have a problem believing that WH won't forget me...do they really think about us?How long were you in plan B? I tend to think the longer we are apart the easier it is for WH to stop thinking about us.Its been 16 months in all for me...a strict plan B since end of Feb. Sorry to intrude on your thread I always lurk and read the plan Bers threads..we all in the same boat!!
Hi all, Thanks for your continued support and most of all prayers.
Yes my little sister is in town ;-) Her DH will be starting his new job about an hour away from where I live. They are trying to find a place to live somewhere between there and here... it is so exciting!! I have to remind you all this is a miracle for me. She's ten yrs younger, I left home when she was in fourth grade, so we really are just getting to know each other. Her husband seems to be a great guy and my two little nephews are the cutest!!
They lived in Washington state and his work sent him here of all places to Maine! Totaly a miracle as far as I'm concerned ;-)
Anyway WH popped in to say hello to them, give them some suggestions about which areas to consider living in and which to avoid etc. We still TM almost daily. And I'm continuing to pray for him the prodigal to come home ;-)
Sorry Serenity... but I have a barge in plan B question for mimi as well...
I have been in plan B for 3 months, not always perfect, but pretty close. My WH thinks I am punishing him with plan B and deliberately hurting him using the kids against him. I gave him the plan B letter and told the kids the truth. Is his fog what makes him think I am doing things TO him?
Well thank you Amazin... I was just catchin' up and seeing you are now in plan B... best of luck to you...
I was on my way to search for my thread and don't need to ;-)
Thank you to those who have thought about me in my absense... wish I could say I had good news... but I don't... other than my sister is now settled in 8 minutes away from me!!! Still can't believe it! She came all the way from Washington to Maine! I love it!!
Ok... wh is still wayward. Decided he was going to now be in control of his income... giving a certain amount to me each week. It's a bit more than what child support would be (I think), but a huge loss in what we've grown used to. He's had opportunities to spend time with the kids but still chooses not to. I hate that a TON!! My anger is still directed at the OW... I still hold out hope and pray for wh each day... the kids know all of this.
wish I could say I had good news... but I don't... other than my sister is now settled in 8 minutes away from me!!! Still can't believe it! She came all the way from Washington to Maine! I love it!!
This may not be the good news that everyone wants to hear... but it's still good news! I hope your sister moving close to you is a blessing for you and your family. Everyone needs a support group and a sister can be a HUGE part of that. I know my siblings are a big blessing for me and they're all far far away.
Well thank you Amazin... I was just catchin' up and seeing you are now in plan B... best of luck to you...
You didn't think I was going to leave you on page 400 and .... what ever it was...LOL
Maybe you should join me in Plan B.... We could be Plan B buddies...LOL.... Your sister could be your intermediary...
Quote
It's a bit more than what child support would be (I think), but a huge loss in what we've grown used to.
I don't know how many kids you have ... but you should talk to a lawyer and see what can be done to make his support a legal thing. If it's not on paper and being ordered by a judge... it's optional... I'd get it in writing... I'll bet it's alot more than you think.
I TOLD you everyone was wanting to hear from you.....
Glad to see your still alive and well. And I am so happy for you about dear sis. I don't know what I would have done without mine....hopefully she will give you the love and support you TRULY need through all of this.....
Wow time flies when you're having fun! Flies when you aren't having fun either.
Thanks for caring ;-)
Quick short update... will add more this weekend.
This is the first summer I've ever worked... thank goodness my new job allowed me to work over the summer. I should say thank GOD. I've been so blessed... I have a wonderful job I still love, HE's blessed me with three terrific teenagers, He sent my sister across the country to live 4 miles away, He sent us a beautiful german shepherd dog... she's the smartest most lovable creature on the planet... and I have faith that I'll be blessed with my husband coming home. When?... that I still don't know. Yes, he's still playing house with the warthog... loosing more and more of the kids respect everyday.
So anyway... I just got back from a conference in New Orleans! Work sent me, I loved it! The city was wonderful. I hope and pray for all down there in the gulf to be safe.
I'm exhausted, but will try to get on this weekend and check up on my buddies, I miss you, and do think about you, we'll get caught up this weekend ;-)
I've been wondering how things were going for you. I know there are a lot of people here who have been wondering as well.
It's great to hear the update...
I was stationed in New Orleans, I transferred 26 days before Katrina hit. (Someone must have been looking out for me.)
When I would drive by the convention center I would always remark about how that must be the longest building I'd ever seen.
I really enjoyed the culture in New Orleans. If I ever go back I think I'll be dissapointed. I'm sure it's not the same since Katrina. I still know a lot of people who are stationed there and people who are from there. I'm hoping and praying that they're OK and that Gustav is not going to do any damage.
Anyway.... it's good to hear from you... come back and visit again.
So I was "distracted" for about three months... mistake? probably. But I don't want to get into that now.
I noticed a few of my "old" friends are still on here posting... good. That's what I came back looking for.
WS has now been 'playing house' with warthog for just over a year. Still hasn't mentioned D or even filed any paperwork. VERY little contact with the kids and they say they don't care. I hurt for them though, and for the regret he will have later in life.
I hope to be back on and reading and catching up now that I'm no longer being distracted.
You are all so wonderful! and I'm glad you're still around to cheer me up and on ;-) Although, I don't know if you all stick around here is a good thing or not, gotta find your posts and read up on all that I've missed... or I have a better/selfish idea, instead of making me search them out- you can all give me updates right here ;-p
I'm still lucky and blessed in regards to the teens. I never in a million years would have guessed mine would be so easy going. Granted they drive me bonkers sometimes, but they are truly good/loving kids. Makes me wonder how much greater they could be with a full time dad in the picture.... oh that's right he's a grouchy short tempered man... maybe not such a good influence after all.
Anyway, I'm back, to hopefully get my head on straight and stop the obsessive thoughts that have plagued me the past month. I couldn't have thought of a better place to turn.
Thank you for being here!! ((NOT)) still too funny!
BTW... Not2fun... (I shouldn't tell you this because I'm just askin for it...)
I went out yesterday to go to a farmers market. I was there for about 10 minutes before I had to leave. I got such a pain in my neck and shoulders that it gave me a headache and I had to go home and lie down.
So before you say it... I'll beat you to the punch...
OK here's my update....not that there's all that much....
still in recovery.....
NC still intact.....
recovery is hard work.....
some days good....
some days GREAT....
some days I wanna throw him to the curb....
I still trigger like crazy ....in fact, this morning at breakfast, H was talking about his business and some things that had gone this week and MENTIONED, just merely MENTIONED, COWS work and it just made the hairs stand on my neck....and before anyone freaks out,,,,NO he is NOT doing business with her, but all the other agents still do and it was pertainent to the story, but still sucked none-the-less......
still working on ME....Plan A is definately a for-life program, which is good.....I still have the weight off, though I have put 10 lbs on, which was all I needed to get back on that wagon (hey, I LOVE the weight loss and all that goes with it...), I still do my "GODDESS" stuff EVERY DAY, mostly, still don't wear the sweats (that's for you MIMI), and just feel great.
and on a FANTASTIC MAYBE TMI note, H let me know a couple of weeks ago after a "session" that it was the BEST SEX OF HIS LIFE.....that's stickin it to the COW....
Speaking of COW, she is finally not really a factor in my mind any more, which is good. NO free rent for her. I can't say I have forgiven her, but she just isn't in there any more.......which is really good for me, because she really just messed my head up way too much...and I'm MUCH MUCH better than that.....
Kids are good. Its funny because I was cleaning my room today and came across "Love Busters" and DD15 saw it and rolled her eyes and said "You guys are fine, why do you still read this stuff???".....so that her opinion on where we are.....
that being said, I still battle resentment, AO'S, and DJ's, but they are getting better with time....
so, back to YOU.....
do you talk to WH????
I missed you much. Heck, a year ago I spent many a lonely nights with only you and TMTS to keep my spirits alive..... ...
I think SDGuy reccomended a place. I looked to see where the closest one was. And there's one around the corner from work. It's not convienient to home.... I'm 45 miles from the base. But.... maybe I'll go after work one day.
((NOT)) I'm not ready to get into the whole "distraction" story yet. It's still too soon, not over it, but it was an interesting couple of months that got me through the holidays.
WS doesn't speak to me. I've given him no reason not too. He responds to texts if I have to be to work too early to take the kids to school, he's done that once for me in the past few months. He gives them a ride home from school every couple of weeks. I still can't understand why he doesn't spend time with them... even when he's off for the day... take them to supper anything? Nope, nothing!! I just don't get it.
I've still never given up on wanting my old spouse back... not the person he has become since meeting the warthog... (he has even gained many pounds since leaving us for her.)
I still want to say we made it, years down the road... I want to be the last couple dancing at the wedding when they do that whole... 'sit down if you've been married for ten years or less', 'sit down if you've been married 20 years or less'...etc... he's still the one I want to sit in the rocking chair with, on the porch and watch the sun set. But he's got to come out of the fog first... and find his way home. I do still have hope that the whole "2year affair" is true. We don't see him often, but when we do see him, he doesn't seem happy. I asked his best friend several weeks ago and he doesn't think that my WS is happy either.
Well if this isn't a good excuse for a drive by I don't know what is. Glad to hear your still hanging in thereand it sounds like you've got a modified plan B going on over there. It's a shame about the kids, but at this point would he get anywhere with them even if he did try. Your kids are all old enough to know what is going on and see this as a rejection of them. Very hard to fix...I'm still working on that part with my dad almost 30 years later.
Enough about that.....from this side of the lake things are going well. Like Not, I run into bouts of resentment, btu remind myself that this is what I wanted and that the alternative would be worse, and that helps me get through it. I'll tell you this much.... recovery is one busy gig! But considering that before I spent most of my time being in my own little world of drug induced fogginess, I'll take it happily.
Got to leave it to Not to pick up on the distrction thing.... you should have know that was comming. LOL
It's like a big ol' reunion over here on my thread
This place is depressing though! It sucks that it exsists... but many BSs have been helped because of it, so that's good... but I'm beginning to wonder/waiver... is it worth it. I read newer threads and realize some of the crud my ws was putting me thru before his affair... I'm remembering bad times where things felt hopeless slipping back into the rewriting history i think... I don't know... What I do know-relationships aren't fair! It takes two to get together and form a relationship... but only one gets to decide when to check out of it, leaving the other behind. NOT fair! I'm pouting!
, and that's ok.
..I DON'T GET IT...but I'm no longer gonna beat my head up against the wall with you...
