Ark, I've always respected your opinion and I'd really like to hear the answer to my question below.

I think I get what you're saying. I keep coming back to the fact that my husband married me when he was 26 and I was 19. I guess the difference there is that my DH had never been married and had never had children when we married. (Although we had our first child nine months later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) Also, is it different because my DH and I DIDN'T have an affair but married instead? Or do you think the age difference in any situation speaks to the moral character of the man?

Are you saying it's because the WH in this case HAD to be more emotionally mature and further along (even though he was the same age as my husband) because he WAS married and had had children?

Just trying to understand your point and not take offense.

Princess:

Don't question what GOD has brought together in YOUR MARRIAGE...

You answered this question for yourself..your H was not married when he fell in love with you...DUH...

Mimi..who was 18 when she fell in love with her husband...and he was 19...

it is without a doubt the AFFAIR with a 19 year old...

let alone with a baby...

it's mindblowingly wrong in my opinion...

one should not deny the developemental differences in a 18-19 year old..vs the life experiences gained by a 25-older individual....when it's an affair it's just smacks of taking advantage of someone...

the limitations of an affair amongst peers is great...
multiply that in to a young persons life...

the secrecy
the shame
the need to hide
the need to isolate from their own peer group..
the lack of normal healthy relationship issues...
it's horrible...

these same restrictions do no exist in available 19/twentyfive plus somethings...and they can atleast GROW together....
experience real life hardships triumphs together with a real support group..

not in this dirty little secret...

an affair with 19 year old is completely STUNTING in all aspects....

there is something also wrong with issue of control that a grown adult male can wield over a 19 year old girl...

there can't be a ton of healthy relationships under the girls belt...and this to me is just too damaging...

the fact is that the WS can have a devastating impact on this young persons chances for healthy nurturing relationships for years as well as really do a mind F... on their belief of what a marriage is...

what man confides in a child about their marital problems for any other reason but you know what...
atleast with a PEER it might have some basis in reality...


who goes to a young unmarried girl for marriage advice...
hhhmmmm?

that's judging anything in my book..
that's reality..

ARK

Okay gotcha. I agree. Thanks for clarifying.

Oh Mimi, I don't! I just couldn't get it through my thick skull that Ark wasn't necessarily talking about a MARRIAGE but rather an AFFAIR and all it's nastiness.

Post deleted by fireblossom816

No, not at all. It was your thread that lead me to these questions. I just pulled ARK aside because I didn't want to distract from your thread.

Ark?

Ark?

"there is something also wrong with issue of control that a grown adult male can wield over a 19 year old girl..."

Subtract a year and a day and they call her "jail bait" and legally call it "statutory rape".

Post deleted by fireblossom816

Wow, FB. Thank you for sharing what must have been really painful for you to post. This does put a whole different light on things. The first thing that I thought was is this history repeating itself? You're older now so he goes after a younger version of you? If I'm way off base with that, please forgive me but it does seem kind of like a pattern going on here. Do you think that's what it is?

With your background, hopefully some others will be along that have walked in your shoes and can offer you some advice. I'd love to help you but it sounds like your circumstances are far from normal and I don't want to cause you any harm.

I do know one thing. I will be praying for you, that you'll get the right answers.

Before I read ONE MORE WORD, I must comment.

You are MOST WELCOME. We know how painful adultery is. We know how hard recovery is.

Again, WELCOME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

2long, so glad you're here... FB really needs some help on sorting this out. It's a little more complicated than I originally thought.

Some questions for you FB:

1) Does he still have contact or any type of friendship with any young girls/women?

2) Has his behavior, atitude, etc. changed since "recovery" started?

3) How is your marriage now compare to when you first got married?

Once again, advice offered on this board are (non-professional) opinions. You should take them into consideration, but only you know the real circumstances and all the facts; we don't.

It seems it was history kind of repeating itself. I don't really know.

It's like I live in two realities.

reality a: everythings ok. problems are normal. I loved him once and can love him again. He just has issues.

reality a = good christian woman

reality b: everything is NOT ok. I want as far away from him that I can get, and other than having my beautiful babies I regret much of our relationship.



I am very confused.

bump for ARK

FB, hang tight. I just got home and I'll be back in just a little bit.

BA- go away. You were not invited to post on this thread.

Can the mods please do something about this troll? BA is now stalking me.

Hey, BA -

Why don't you cool it with the questions until you can answer the ones that have been asked of you repeatedly?

I'll post them again

1. What is your experience with infidelity/adultery? Are you a BS, WS, OP, or child of divorce?

2. How have you used the MB principles in your life?

It's not fair for you to be digging around in other people's lives when you have been repeatedly asked to state your purpose here. If you refuse to answer these questions, GO SOMEPLACE ELSE.

BA, here are the answers to your questions:

1. leave me alone
2. leave me alone
3. leave me alone.

If you were here for good reasons, you would explain yourself.

If you were here for good reasons, you would have respected my boundaries and left me alone when I originally requested you to.

And by the way, leave me alone.

Too subtle. Sometimes an actual incendiary device is required... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Metaphorical, of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> What did you think I meant? Just because my MB name is thrndrnltng, and when I first followed my betrayed daughter to this site I suggested something thermonuclear for her then-wayward, doesn't mean you should extrapolate forward and assume something violent! I have impugned myself and hurt my own feelings. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I think I'll go lie down and read a book...

t&l

You know for all the people who worked so damn hard to tear apart my sense of purpose in my marriage and try to get me to 'open my eyes' there is amazingly very little to no followup. It seems on here that being right is less about being right for the posters' sake and more about being right for ego's sake.

This forum is a sham. People are more concerned with trolls and sharing their 'opinions' than the people who are right in front of them, begging for help. And when their 'opinions' actually take root in the actual person behind the story on a computer screen, where are they?

They've moved on to the new hot topic of the day to win some kind of online debate to make them feel good about themselves. All of you 'vets' out there, I have read your threads, where you just argue with each other about whose right and in the process are ignoring people who sincerely need guidance.

I'm sure there's some children's story or historical event that would perfectly illustrate my point about people standing around arguing about how to correctly help someone while this person is drowning... but I just don't care.

I'm sorry that I opened myself up, just to become someone's topic of debate and nothing more. What a waste of my life.

Hi fireblossom-

The "General Questions II" section tends to move very quickly. There are so many threads and topics that a particular thread will drop off the first page in a matter of a few hours if no one posts to it.

The "Recovery" section is slower. Your thread will remain visible for several days, and there is less drama there. There are MANY very good people here that can help your situation. If you'd like to stay and give them a chance you might try the recovery board, or another option would be to keep bumping your thread on GQII so that it stays visible.

Hang in there-
~Saturn

K, I'll try. Thanks.

Bump.

Fireblossom:

There's more than a grain of truth in what you say, but getting angry at the people here will not help your situation. Besides, I see that some very good posters *did* try to help you - 2Long, PM, WhoMe, schoolbus, so it's not as though no one responded to you.

Could you possibly be making more of this than there needs to be? The posters here are not counselors - everyone speaks strictly from his/her own experience. You are not obligated to take *anything* that *anyone* says to heart, and in fact it's probably best to maintain some distance emotionally. The last thing you need at this point is more drama in your life.

My suggestion, if you are serious about saving your marriage, would be to give Harley counseling a try.

One final thought: I have always believed that what we post says much more about us than it does about the poster to whom we are addressing our thoughts. Therefore, your anger at the forum says more about you than it does about the posters on the forum. Follow me?

PK

((((((fireblossom))))))

I'm sorry for any t/j-ing I did.

I'm sorry I don't have any specific advice for your situation, but I do support you reconciling! I think it's amazing that you are here trying after what you went through.

Things are kind of slow around here because of the holidays.

FB, I am soooo sorry I wasn't able to get back to you last night. I hope you will forgive me.

You know, it really doesn't matter what happened to get you guys together. The fact is that it is now years later, you are married and you do have children together. I agree, I think your husband does have issues. Are they fixable? Does he believe he has issues? Do you want to invest the time to find out? I think you do or you wouldn't be here.

You guys have a lot of work to do to heal your marriage, if that's what you want. There are some things that your husband needs to do to regain your trust. He should not expect that you will trust him for a very long time.

Can you get your husband to come here and post (not on your threads)? There are some good men here that may be able to help him.

So I guess when people on this ever so helpful forum accuse my husband of being a rapist(when he clearly is not), what does that say about them?

When I have been attacked for 'the kind of person I am' to marry my H, what does that say about them? As if I could have had the foresight that he was going to cheat on me with an 18 yo.

Maybe I am angry. And maybe that's just my fault.

Maybe I came here being vulnerable and was dealt with harshly and it's my fault that that hurts me.

I am sorry I am angry. I am sorry I am upset. I always either take too much responsibility or not enough.

I am tired. I am tired of life and damn tired of living. I am tired of trying to be strong. I am tired of trying to be good. I am tired of hoping. I am tired of pretending that everything is ok so that I'm not a burden. I'm tired of pretending that I'm not hurting inside. I'm tired of hiding my life, being ashamed of my life.

Morning FB,

Hope you don't think that we forgot about you or don't understand the pain you are experiencing.

Honestly, I've oft wondered if there is a difference in the way BS respond to infidelity based on their age.

You see, I was older when my FWH had his affair and in many ways, I believe that influenced my decision to try and recover my marriage.

It wasn't that I didn't love him or that I didn't forgive him. But I also still think that there was another part of me that simply didn't want that big a change in my life while I was approaching retirement.

Sometimes, I wonder if I had known then how long it would take and how painful the journey to recovery would be, would I still do it.

I look at you (someone who is but a couple years older than my DD) and I really do share your pain at having experienced so much so early in your life.

I can understand Arks feeling about the age of the OW, but do not agree that age alone makes someone a victim. The laws in our country are very specific that an 18 yo is an adult, and there must be some reason for that.

I know this time of the year is really quite possibly the worst to go thru this, from personal experience. I didn't have MB in my life when I was going thru it.

Hopefully there will be enough folks around here on the forum to help you keep on keeping during the holidays.

Who

All it says is that is their viewpoint...not the truth, mind you, just their opinion. It's up to you to determine how valid their viewpoint is - for you.


Whoa! I don't want you to misunderstand me: It's not your FAULT. It's not about laying blame at all. It's about recognizing that yes, you *are* angry. And yes, you *are* vulnerable. So proceed with caution....and that includes taking the words of certain posters to heart. You are under no obligation to take anything that anyone says here and agree with it. Sure, you can think about it. But discard it if it doesn't fit.


Now this is my viewpoint, but I don't see anything for you to be ashamed of.

I'm sorry you're hurting. The Harleys, a good therapist, someone to talk to is what you need. You're awfully young to be shouldering this burden.

Take care.

PK

What if your anger is okay...being yours? Not someone's fault, a signal?



What if what you're experiencing right now is really harsh on your heart, your dreams, your perceptions? What if you did the best you could with what you knew then...and are learning and growing now...so you know more and do better?



I would not apologize for feeling anger...amends come in when we act out on our anger. You identified something pretty big in yourself...kinda the all or nothing, too much or too little...sounds like awareness and growth to me.



What if change takes this very stage...when you're too tired...you may discover you were strong all along...

when you're too tired of trying to earn goodness...you may well discover you already were good...

when you stop pretending you may discover you were always real...

when you share your stuff (feelings, thoughts, beliefs) you may discover that your pain is halved, your joy doubled...

and when you stp hiding who you are, your experience, you may discover you were nothing to be ashamed of...

Worth the journey, FB. You can do this.

LA

Hi Again FB,

We must of been posting simultaneously.

I think it is important to remember that most of us here, even those of us who do consider our marriages to be recovered, came here as wounded, broken folk.

Each of us in our own way comes with our own baggage and more importantly, our own OPINIONS of what goes just beyond acceptable.

I suspect that most of us BS here would have said that if our spouse had an affair, we'd divorce them ... until it actually happened to us.

There are so many similarities in the stories here that we sometimes forget that there are many differences as well and that it is difficult, no impossible, to pound the square pegs into the round holes every single time.

I know that you are hurting, and tired, and ashamed, and even wondering why you are even trying to stay married to your FWH. Only you can make that decision. No one here has a right to make it for you.

I honestly don't know what I would have done in your situation, but that isn't the point. Our role, as I see it, is to advise you, to the best of our ability and knowledge of MB principles, on recovery of your marriage and surviving your FWH's affair.

So I do hope that you can feel our concern and know that even we strangers do care.

Who

I don't mean to be hurtful, and I definitely do not mean to be hurtful to the people in this forum who have shown me kindness.

I AM angry. I am angry at silence. Not on this board, but in my life.

I am angry that I had a stay at home mom and feel like a motherless child. I am angry that my mom lost herself in her science fiction books, classical music and her own scripted stories to show her brilliance and genius and left me to take care of myself. I am angry at her silence in my life.

I am angry at the silence of my teachers who ignored my obvious neglect because I was gifted in academics.

I am angry at the silence of my friends' parents who knew of my neglect and said nothing or worse, told their kid my parents didn't love me, so that their kid could tell me.

I am angry that I have been ignored, tolerated or downright invisible to my mom despite my good grades, talent, athleticism, prettiness... to many mothers, I was just what one would want from a daughter and my mom was damningly blind to it.

I am angry that this is the start my parents and 'village' gave me.

And I am angry that it was on this basis that I made lifelong decisions and commitments. However...

What my husband has done IS wrong, and it does speak of his 'character'. But what of MY character? Who am I to be with him, except that I have similarities to him. I don't mean that in a negative way toward myself necessarily. Maybe that is just the 'reality'.

What I mean is this, my husband and I both had difficult childhoods. Neither one of us had a good start. Isn't it a possibility that we are a match, and it is the Gospel of Christ.. love, hope, mercy and forgiveness that will edify us into people, who, even the best of you could define as individuals with strong character? Possibly, even HE was doing his best? "When you know better, you do better."

I have seen REAL changes in my H. I'm not saying he's a damn god, I'm saying he is willing to look at his past, his mistakes, his makeup, his childhood and he is willing to look at it and say that he is screwed up. BUT he wants to do what he has to in order to affect change.

I believe the gospel was meant for Jew, Gentile, sinner, my husband, me, etc...... I believe there is grace because we live in a fallen world, and that there is hope for true change because of the power of the GOSPEL not because he or I have somehow managed by our own right to have good character up to this point.

Maybe I'm wrong. I am always willing to look at that. But maybe, just maybe God truly does have a plan and truly does know what He is doing and my husband and I were put together by God too, to ultimately edify each other through the gospel of grace.

Well said. With God, all things ARE possible. If you've read my story, you'll know that's true. You guys have suffered through not only the affair but serious spiritual damage from a pastor. BTW, I hope you've found a new church. I live in Plano too, maybe I can make some suggestions for you.

Is your husband willing to post too? I asked you before but you never responded.

I did show you kindness when people were attacking you, your husband and your marriage, especially on your original post, but what did you do in return? It's clear that you've become self pitty and self destructive because of the circumstances. You might be even pushing people away because of that.

I'm done with you. I won't post to you again.

FB... I think you have enough good sense to ignore this troll.

I heard exactly what you were saying and heard the pain in your post. You were speaking out of honesty which is a good thing. You can't deal with things until you face them, which is what I see you doing.

Dude, I think the entire board is done with you.

I think my H might post, where should he post, if he did?... and we have found a new church, thanks!

I guess ultimately, people's opinions of my situation will rely mainly on the answer to whether they believe character is a permanent quality or if it is something that can be improved (with commitment and diligent effort). I personally don't believe it is permanent, especially in light of the gospel.

And just by the way, I don't mean in any way to say that because of grace I would live or think it's ok to live recklessly. Clearly, I am not of that mind, I have seen oh so many, way too many live like h**ll because they think that's what grace is for. This is a sticky subject... my point is that it's grace that will be the 'cast' to heal our 'bones' (our character).

Thank you PM, Who, LA, PK, Ark and others for being willing to share your insight and encouragement with me. I feel like I've really been able to question some things and I've come out with stronger resolve. Thank you, truly.

I am extremely busy right now...
has nothing to do with silence...or not wanting to address....barely a free moment...

I never ever said your husband was a rapist...
rape is NOT a sexual act...it is pure violence...I never said any such thing....

fireblossom..
you are not in any "trouble" you didnt do anything wrong...you are not unwanted...here...that's crazy...

My concerns are about your husbands history...

I have concerns in this post where as a leader now he got involved with you...
and most scariest....

attempts to convince you that everyone else is 'wrong' and HE is right...

very manipulative behavior....

I believe people can change....

but YOU are going to need very very very very clear concise boundaries...

he is good at convincing those around him that it is never him...

his parents didn't think it was wrong
her parents didn't think it was wrong...

and a lot of this rolled in to the name of God and ministry...

very very very mind blowing stuff....

you will need a very strong individual counselor so that you will not again be swayed in to his next manipulation...

you will need very concise boundaries with plans of actions to follow up with....

i honestly don't have time right this second......but am not ignoring...

company christmas school parties...airports....work....uhh wrapping paper....etc

ARK

ARK

I do, I did, and I am. My apologies.

t&l

I'm sorry, T&L, if I offended you.

This whole situation has been very confusing to me. I came on to this forum pretty broken and drained and seeking support and encouragement like I had seen countless others receive as I had browsed the forum anonymously.

While I did receive encouragement and support from many, I was blindsided with other very harsh opinions on my situation. Yes, there was some truth in those opinions regarding my H's character, but my oppenness to try to respect and consider other's opinions did ultimately get the best of me.

Ark, you pointed out valid concerns with my H"s character, BUT the way in which you did it was harmful. I was very clear in my original post as to my emotional state, and where before I excused your behavior or disregarded bc there was some truth in your concerns, I was wrong to do so. You were harsh and careless with me, and being a more experienced poster, I personally believe you should have known better.

Who of any of you, having gone through this experience of adultery wants to hear right out of the gate that the OW was a victim? And in my experience specifically, although I do have compassion for her due to her tender age, I was still hurt by her actions. She called me stupid, referred to me as 'Satan', befriended MY family, even my own DD, and publicly prided herself in her ability/gift to 'love' people in the midst of the A... she basically stepped into My role in My life, and for a while, did it better than me. *That hurt me* regardless of her age.

Stellakat, your opinions were honestly just ignorant. But that's just my 'opinion.'

I recognize that no one who responded to me is my counselor, but I would hope that when more 'newbies' come here and post, even if you don't agree with their situation, that you would approach them with more discretion, tact and gentleness than you did me. After all, the people who are brave enough to tell their story and reach out for help on here are pretty broken and wounded, whatever their circumstance... and just because you CAN hide your harsh words behind your computer screen doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Loving Anyway, I can't tell you how powerful your insight into my emotions in a very weak moment were to me. I'm pretty sure I'm going to print them out so I can see them often.

I don't know if I'll be on here again, I feel pretty embarrassed about a lot of things that have gone on, even my own statements, which in a not so good emotional state I made the decision to post. I really have to decide if my skin is thick enough, and at this point, I really don't know if it is.

Good luck to you all in rebuilding your marriages,

FB.

You didn't offend me--I was making fun of myself. I do that a lot. If I'm sorry for anything it's only that I'm sorry you didn't get more help and less bashing. When my daughter showed up almost 3 years ago, this place was a lifeline, and helped inestimably much in her marriage recovery. Now it's more like a mud-and-diamond free-for-all, and you've got to pluck stuff off of you once it hits, and figure out which it is. That's too bad, but there are still lots of diamonds of advice here on this site, and help to be had, if you're willing to wade through the, um, other stuff to get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t&l, wishing you the best

I hope you guys came ready to read, because I have alot to say. First of all, I should say that I am FB's H. I know there's probably some kind of "can of worms" I'm about to open because I'm writing this, but I feel like you some of you guys have been totally unfair to FB. This board was supposed to be a place where she could come, and find the support that I fail to offer her when she needs it. She was hoping to find people who would be able to tell her from experience that things would be okay, and worth the work. But SOME of you folks on here, have been not only a huge disapointment to her, but a huge disapointment to this site in general.

I cannot fathon the type of simple minded immaturity required to read a forum post, and encourage someone to divorce their spouse. I cannot fathom the flippant irrisponsibility in someone that would argue with, and cause a wounded woman to feel as though she needed to defend herself, with such little knowledge or understanding of the specific situation she's in. Come on people, you can't do that. If you want to just throw stuff out there, to feel good about you "ADVICE" giving abilites, or to practice for your psyche test, without getting the full story, then you should remove yourself from this place. Seriously, that is completely uncalled for.

Now, for those that wish to know more, please read ahead...if you think you've got it all figured out, then go somewhere else.

I would like to tell you some of this story from where I have been. I was raised to be in the spotlight. When I was a kid, I got attention for 2 reasons. Being on stage and being bad. My parents would tell stories of both of these things in my life. Other than that, I wasn't special. This situation in me left me with a lifelong struggle with depression. I grew up wanting 1 thing. The stage. I took it every chance that I got, but it never paid much, and so I struggled. I have lived in a world with 2 options. The stage and real life. I have always struggled with real life, because it has never gotten me the attention I wanted. So, fast FWD a few years, and I'm married. I have the promise from a local church to be on full time staff, I'm leading a talented band with doors opening up, and everything is looking fantastic. The Church withdrew it's promise for financial reasons, the band suffered and dissolved, and I feel like I've lost it all. All except my wife who is now forced to provide an income for our family due to my depression issues.

Yeah, we had a rough time our 3 1/2 years of dating, because , as she explained...we both came from bad places. And our first 3 years of marriage, I wouldn't wish on anyone. The fights, the screaming rages, the threats, suicide attempts, etc... That was some horrible ******.

I remember that FB was all I could ever hope for in a girl. She was everything to me. I have adored her since I met her. Yes, we met and her Church, but no I did not get kicked out for having a relationship with her. The Pastors asked me to discontinue associating with her at all. I agreed to follow their rules, and not speak to her. I was never kicked out, I left the church due to the way they handled the situation in the days following the meeting where they asked me to stop talking to her. It's a long story, but basically There was a gossip chain going around an area network of pastors, and I traced the root of the gossip back to my pastor. When I confronted himi about the gossip, he said it wasn't gossip if your telling friends, so I made the decision to leave the Church.

Anyway FB dealt a very harsh emotional blow to me, 3 days into our marriage, she told me she was done with me, and wanted a divorce. That really put an end to my hopes and dreams for our future. So, we've done some [censored] stuff to each other, and we've hurt each other over the years. But I believe that, based on our family experiences growing up, what else could anyone expect?

As I stated before, I've always sought 1 thing. The Stage. It's engrained into my system to be on stage. When I first came to the Church of the OW, I was blown away by the look and feel of the place. It attracted my desire to be on stage.

The Pastor of this place, carries himself on a silver platter...Holy Cow, this guy delivers himself to you as the most caring, in your life, touch your heart, see your future, guy I've ever met. He is THE single most manipulative person I've ever met in my life.

In all of my performances, I've known people, and met people along the way. People I knew, asked me to lead worship for the youth services. I did, for 1 summer I played sundays main service, wednesdays youth service, kids camps, VBS's...whatever they asked me to do. I felt this was my ticket. Yeah I was training to be a cop, but I felt that if I played, I would be it. That was step 1 in the destruction of my marriage. FB left me and moved in with her Dad.
I didn't even see the next few steps coming. A few days later, The Pastor had a "Father/Son" talk with me about how I needed to let her go, get the divorce and move on with my life. All of that advice, in a less than 5 minute conversation. The next few weeks consisted of me, playing my heart out on stage, being told I was the best they'd seen, and that I was going places. Along with all of that, came his daughter who truly was just an acquaintance at first. Then she was kind of always around. Then I started getting invited to go places with large groups of people. Then I was being invited to the Pastor's house, where only "Special priveleged" people were aloud to even know where it existed on the map. I was unanware of the discussions FB had with this man at the time, be he sat me down with his daughter one day, told everyone else to leave, and said..."You've found the best friend you could ask for in my daughter. Lean on her, seek her advice, when you need to be lifted up, she'll be the one to do it." Then he said something that according to people around him, he's only ever said once before..."I see me and you in my future. We're going to do great things together. Just trust me, follow me, and you and I will change the world. I'll give you the stage you deserve. I'll take you where you want to go, just let me take you there."

Damn, my life changed in that moment. Here it was...THE STAGE!...and all I had to do, was follow his words, and be his daughters best friend. Soon it would be, Worship the ground I walk on, and sleep with my daughter.

Thats was how it started...by the end of it, I had found myself mixed up in a group of people that were swapping drugs, alcohol, and women. I was being pressured to spend the night with her at various people's houses and to take cocktails of pills that were handed to me. I don't even know what they were, but the hallucinations were intense.

Basically, here's the score, I spent enough time with this person, that I did develop feelings for her, but I also knew that she was being pushed on me for some reason I cannot explain. Her Dad was orchestrating some kind of relationship that I still don't get. All of the people around him were doing the same things...

Once I realized the ****** I was living in, I made decision to run away. I ran hard. I cut off all ties to everyone and anyone associated with that time in my life. Immediately. I even left the state. I ran without any promise that my wife and kids would take me back, I ran knowing my family would hate me for it. I ran for my own life, because I knew I was going to die, either from the drugs and alcohol, or from knowing too much of a corrupt system.

That's my story. We're together now, and our lives are healing. We're different people, because in September of 07, I accepted Chriust as my Lord and Savior. The gospel truly is the good news.

Afterwake

FB,

My prayer is that as you consider returning to MB or not you will factor in that MB needs you, too.

Recover is a long road...at least two years. You've already shown you're brave, honest and hungry enough for it. I see the same in your FWH's post, as well.

Which is why MB grows.

I believe God reaches constantly...that we come here as you did, in our crisis of self and our lives, within our marriages...to where others came and then stay, to give back and continue their own healing, learning and growth.

I see MB as learning about boundaries...which go around ourselves...that we hold ourselves to, and enforce when others cross. Posting on MB gives practice, awareness and understanding, which we can apply in our marriages, our relationships with others.

We can all go astray, lose our way, in life...I know I have done that at times on this board, even, when I react to my feelings and not come prayerfully, with my intent pure. And I have been forgiven, even as I have in my marriage...and forgave, as well.

A process of wholeness, seems to me, what the Harleys have provided here. Not an event, an incidence...not one thing to destroy all that preceded or will follow. God at work, constantly.

Often, we can't see his hand when we're covered by it. Takes time. Sure can see it in hindsight.

You both have the chops to be here. Only one thing can cut off MB as another avenue to have his touch in a different way in your lives.

Removal.

Here, as in real life, you affect as much as you are effected. You benefit as greatly as you are benefited. Opens us to doing harm, too, as much as we feel harm. It's the inherent way of responsibility. As it is in our marriage, we are half of our relationships on this board, with our FOO and our friends...everyone we meet. Only half and all of it.

Half is what is said, and half is how we choose to perceive.

I hope you'll keep in mind God's design of humans...where what they do to others, be certain, they do also to themselves. What they don't allow is as important as what they do.

My experience here has been to know that when something resonates in me, that's God's touch directing me to understanding what I already knew and didn't know I did. Up solely to me to hold onto that resonance, examine and welcome it home fully.

The same when something hurts in me...to understanding I was already hurting, right there. Up to me to know this place in me, where it came from, that it's not hurt coming in...already there.

Which is why you can come here and take what you need and leave the rest...through discernment.

God's healing ways...both for love of you who are made from love...doesn't always feel like love, does it?

(I see you already understanding a lot of his design...responsibility, limits and freedom...so my prayer remains...you matter.)

LA

Mom forgot till I reminded her, but my younger brother was 26 when he married, and his wife was just a few weeks past her 18th birthday. (And no, they were not having sex before they married.) So the age difference is not nearly as big a thing to me as that an A occurred at all while in a pastoral position.

When I was younger, I would guess in the 18-20 range, I was hit on by an older MM. The family was good friends of mine, and I would often watch their children for them. They even asked me to agree to take the children if anything ever happened to them.

Well, one day this guy sits me down - at church!!! - and says he's been having fantasies about us being a family, and feeling like our souls touched, blah blah blah puke.

It was not my age but my character that kept me from giving in to his insistent pressure. ("Are you sure? Didn't you feel it too? Nothing? Nothing at all?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ) Even if he had been closer to my age and more tempting, NOTHING could have induced me to have give in. Not because I am immune to temptation, or think I am incapable of having an A. But because I had already made a choice, that no matter what happened I would be obedient to God's law.

Your WH chose differntly, and regardless of her age, so did the OW. It didn't matter in God's eyes if her father served her up naked on a silver platter, or if your WH pretended to speak on behalf of God. (Not that I think either occurred.) She had a choice to make, and only she is responsible for what she chose. When I was 18 I knew right from wrong, and so did she.

Lest it seem like I am bragging too much, my response to the creepy MM was not ideal. I was such an agreeable young person, and very much a pleaser, and would never in a million years have told someone off. "Heh heh, well I'm flattered, but um um um, don't you sort of have a wife? No, I don't feel anything for you. Yes, I'm sure. Yes, I'm really really really sure. No, I'm just not um um interested." Instead of MY SHOE UP THE SIDE OF HIS HEAD!!!!!!!!

He came to a sad end, too, suffering a chemical exposure at work that affected his mind, leaving him little better than a child. His wife still was with him the last I knew.

I do completely agree with Ark's most recent post that you will both have to have some very strong boundaries in place if you are to recover. Your WH has more problems than just slipping willingly into adultery. But with God all things are possible, as long as we humans open ourselves to Him.

Welcome to MB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

fireblossom

I am sorry if my post hurt you...
it was not intended to be an attack on you...

ark

Ark -

I am a little down tonight and was hoping you could give me some words of wisdom to keep my FAITH alive.

What did you to? I am shaking my head like Mimi told me, and playing a game with my son, but I MISS my H.

So I love it when you write your stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I could beg if you like.

Ark, apology accepted. Sorry I didn't reply sooner!