Tomorrow's the day. I need to...
* Change my locks
* Open a new, individual bank account
* Explain to the kids NC
* Deliver PBL:

H-

It is with a heavy heart that I write you this letter. I am saddened by what has become of us - our friendship, our partnership, our marriage. This letter is written to you as a necessity. I'll explain:

The 11 yrs we spent together were filled with countless hugs, kisses, tears, winks and laughs. I have loved you every minute of every day we spent together.

I know I haven't been a perfect wife. I realize that my inattentiveness and my obsessive tendencies drove a wedge into our relationship. I'm sorry. Please know I never wanted to hurt you or push you away. The pain of your drinking and destructive behavior during our marriage has been unimaginable. Continued contact with you has the potential to destroy my love for you and I don't want that to happen.

It is because of this that I must insist we no longer contact each other until you stop drinking completely. Please respect this decision. In case of an emergency, or any necessary financial or kid-related or personal property matters, please contact my mom, and she will contact me. Once you are ready to stop drinking completely, please contact me, and I will be willing to discuss restoring our family and our marriage.

I've included our visitation schedule - you are a good father and I want you to continue to see the kids. This is what we'll do for now as it's not fair to disrupt their lives any more than necessary to accommodate the adults problems, and the should be home on school nights. Please have my mom check with me if you need to make any adjustments. It is also in their best interest that you keep all alcohol, drugs, and other relationships you may be taking part in away from them. As for our financial obligations, my expectation is that you will continue to contribute.

I am committed to a clean, sober, peaceful marriage with you. I believe we can build a relationship that is stronger and more fulfilling than we have ever experienced. As of today, I walk forward in life for myself and my kids, and I want you to walk with us. I love you.


Is this good? I'm not backing out, will you PLEASE help me? I've got a LOT of work to do tomorrow, right after work, and I can't afford any slip-ups. Thoughts? Are you still with me??

I never did Plan B, and I haven't posted to you before...having said that, I think your letter is to the point and conveys the necesary information...I really think it rocks..if he is sober when he reads it..you covered all bases. GF

Thank you. I've never changed locks before. Yeesh!

The neighbor lady said she'll help me though. She's been seeing him come every morning. I don't notice any more stuff gone, so I can't imagine what he's doing here!? Yikes!

J, I have a few rental properties, so I have a locksmith on speed dial. This guy will change out the tumblers in my locks and deadbolts, usually about 3 o4 per unit for about $50.00 per. unit. I have him key them all alike so one key opens all, cheaper for me than replacing all the knobs and such..maybe worth a phone call? My guy usually reacts in an emergent situation. I call him every time someone moves out. GF

Another thing, you can get a reasonably priced wireless motion dection burglar alarm on Ebay. You can prerecord a message that will call the police if anyone breaches the motion detectors. You just give your name, address and the fact that you can't call personally an it goes to 911. The ones I saw on Ebay were about $60.00 on the auction I was watching. It also gives off a screamer siren that would run him off real quick. Being in the only female adult situation you are in, this would give you peace of mind.
Just be sure your dog is short and your cat don't jump at lights out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> GF

Oh, Oh, one last thing, My BIL has a business, and he has this webcam in his office for when he goes out of the office.
He aims it at the staff and keeps it on some sort of messaging thingy, he can bring it up on his laptop on the messaging thingy wherever he goes, i guess it would work on other computers as well, as far as bringing up the messager thing. He sees all and knows all about his workers......Big Brother I guess, something to consider. And they know he does it, they just don't know WHEN he has them tuned in.

Well, good night. GF

Julie, your letter is good. I hope he is sober when he reads it. Good luck. TT

julie...

I would check with alanon...

I would not put in till you stop drinking....but consider putting in something..worded differently like

till you are committed to healthy living and participating fully in a recovery plan and and agree to be accountable for your choices...

or something like that...

he's going to need need help and support to quit....

I think that he believes it is impossible to quit drinking..
I think that he can not imagine a life without some alcohol in it...and he's going to need others to help him get there...

this does not mean I think you should take him back and with crazy limits on drinking,,ie you can have two beers on fridays...etc..

I am really just talking about your verbage..
he will feel too overwhelmed and see quit drinking as the impossible deal breaker...
change the verbage to something full of hope about being in a real rehab/recovery plan....and it won't seem as impossible...

what say you...

ark

Hey there ark, very good point - thank you for bringing that to my attention. Demand something attainable instead of making it look inevitably a failure. I will change that part.

Getting nervous...going to do it. I like the locksmith idea, that could save me a lot of time and possibly money and worry too. I've got 2 knobs & 2 dead-bolts to change so it could take a long time too, and I could get "caught". I can make those calls from work too.

Not sure about the alarm - good idea but can't justify the extra $ right now plus, yes, the dogs would FREAK! Good to know in the back of my mind though, JIC.

Julie,
I have changed several locks on my own, including our front deadbolt. If someone can stay at your house to guard property, just unscrew the deadbolt piece where the key goes and take it to Lowe's or Home Depot.
They will re-key it for $5 and give you 2 new keys for free.
It truly is that simple.

Julie, as a recovering alcoholic with 22 years sobriety, I would put in there that he must STOP DRINKING. PERIOD. STOP DRINKING and commit to a program of recovery. With a drunk, you CANNOT MINCE WORDS. It must be STRAIGHT and there must be consequences. I would put in there:


1. STOP DRINKING

2. COMMIT to a program of recovery

Then when you negotiate this with him,[before he returns] tell him that he will have to FIRST go to 90 meetings in 90 days and get a sponsor and commit to quit drinking FOR LIFE.

Don't mince words with a drunk. They will find loopholes, I assure you. They respond to language like this:

STOP DRINKING OR YOU GO TO JAIL.

STOP DRINKING OR YOU LOSE YOUR JOB

STOP DRINKING OR GET OUT

As my XH told me on that dreadful day on April 25, 1985, "stop drinking or GET OUT. You can only live here if you DO NOT DRINK." That is exactly what you need to tell him. He will "work" anything less.

ark, it is a dealbreaker. If he doesn't quit, he doesn't come back. Deal breaker. Trust me, this needs to be expressed very clearly with a drunk. He will work each and every loophole, and that is more than a loophole, it is putty in the the hands of even a dull witted drunk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Alcoholics do not quit unless they are facing huge losses. The pain of drinking has to EXCEED the pain of stopping. And losing one's family is usually enough to do it with most drunks. He needs to face a HUGE LOSS and be very sure of that impending loss unless he stops drinking.

Another suggestion, Julie, is to call the cops on him if you know he is drunk driving. Jail is good medicine for a drunk.

OK, I'll change it again. Thanks again. I like $5, and there's a Lowe's nearby. Nobody to guard, but I'll alert the neighbor & I'll leave the dogs loose. That'll buy me 45 min w/no deadbolt, no problem.

melody..

I am not saying it's not a dealbreaker in recovery..
there is no recovery with out abinstance...

but lets be honest...

your husband telling you that shook and scared you to the core....

MOST addicts hit a bottom much further down....with greater actual losses than the perceived fear of loss...

the majority in recovery are there because it's that or jail...or jail after rehab...etc etc

I am talking about the verbage he needs to hear...
not the verbage that worked on you...

he has already said he won't quit drinking
he deserves to drink....

he;s already choosing booze over family and children
etc etc etc..

I am all for the huge loss...but my opinion is if she writes quit drinking he will just blow it off...and shut her letter out..blah blah blah he will read...
all I am saying is the verbage in the letter should be about hope and recovery....
i
you need to be working a rehab program
you need to save your own life to be around the children living a healthy life...etc...
you need to experiene the joys of family sober

etc
not just quit drinking...

he's losing her no matter what right now...
he can't and won't quit drinking alone...

I am just saying word the letter in a way not to just turn him off...

I am not saying recover without addressing the alcohol...

I am not a fool

ark

ark, I am just saying that the verbiage that I posted is the only verbiage that will WORK, because it represents LOSS. It is all he will hear. Alcoholics don't show up at AA because someone told them they "should sober up." They show up because the PAIN of drinking became greater than the pain of sobering up. They show up because a judge, employer, spouse sent them, and threatened them with LOSS, loss of freedom, loss of family, loss of job, loss of home. LOSS. Not because they woke up and magically saw the error of their ways because someone told they "should stop drinking."

This is how alcoholics think.

Stopping drinking is the condition she has laid down and there should be no misunderstanding about that. NONE.

He WILL LOSE her if he doesn't stop drinking, that is a TRUE FACT that needs to be said VERY VERY CLEARLY. The threat of LOSING EVERYTHING dear to him is the very best medicine. The pain of drinking must exceed the pain of stopping and she can help in that regard. Otherwise, he will have no motivation to sober up.


His greatest joy is DRINKING and all this will have no effect on him. The only thing he can hear is PAIN. When the pain of drinking becomes too great, is when he will be motivated to STOP.

Telling him he needs to be sober is meaningless to an alcoholic. They have been hearing it for YEARS. They will only hear PAIN. That is all that will get through.

I agree very much with this. But his ONLY HOPE is in stopping drinking. She needs to make that very clear, and telling him he "should stop drinking" won't achieve that. We turned off that kind of talk years ago. We only hear LOSS and CONSEQUENCES. Everything else can and will be blown off.

melody I never used the word should...

never ever...

and for the tenth time there is no recovery till he is sober...

I have said that all along...

besides the original pbl letter posted here...just said...stop drinking period...

nothing about a recovery plan
nothing about detox
nothing about rehab...

so he can call up any time and say..

I followed your letter I quit drinking....

my whole point is to include the path and steps to stop drinking....

ARK^^

Thanks, both of you, for your dedication to my sitch. Today is the day. No backing out. I agree with you both here, all very valid points, which is right for me? BTW, let us not forget, so far anyway, LOSING ME isn't a concern to him, as he LEFT ME.

This PBL is going to rock his world. I can't wait!

Called Home Depot (closer to home than Lowe's) & they do the lock thing so we're good. Made sure bank manager will be expecting me tonight to discuss best plan of action for money. Talked with intermediaries again, to make sure we're good.

Tying in to my other thread, I called H @lunch. He wanted to know if he could go to the Dr. or if I'd CXL'd his insurance. I hadn't so I said go ahead (usually this is where I say, "Sure, I'll make an appt").
H: "And this kid situation, is that short term or long term?"
Me: "Well, it's what we're doing for now"
H: "Well, I miss 'em like crazy & I'm sure you understand as you would too"
Me: silence
H: "And as far as money, as you see I put some in this weekend, that was 90% of my check so we don't need to get lawyers involved, I'm going to be paying you. I'll make sure you have enough. My arm's messed up so I'm not sure how much I'll have next week but I won't screw you over"
Me: silence
H: "And I'm sure you hate me & don't want to talk to me, last time you gave me 5 min & today you're giving me 10, and I call & you don't answer...but please don't shut me out, I don't want to feel like I'm missing out"
Me: silence, laughing inside in a bad way
H: "Well that's all, my truck's messed up so if I can't get them home tonight could you pick them up?"
Me: "HMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........."
Me: silence
H: "That's OK, I'll drop them off, I'll drive it anyway."
Me: "OK"
H: "OK, bye"

I DID breathe a sigh of relief he didn't talk D. I can't explain why, but I did. I'm glad. I'm feeling hope.

Thanks for sticking with me!!!

I'm out till tonight. I shouldn't be on here @work. Thanks again.

I can do this.

I am getting ready to do Plan B myself. I have re-written my letter, oh about 9 times literally.
Good luck to you and there are a lot of people at MB on this site that will help us.

BS 37
WH 37
one son 1
OW 34
Affair started 5/06, again 11/06, again 4/07, again NOW

ark, the PBL would include a general overview, and then the specific TACTICS, such as counseling, etc., are negotiated, discussed in reconciliation talks.

I would put it like this: STOP DRINKING and commit to a program of recovery. That gives the general path and the specific tactics can be discussed in the future.

For example, she could specify that he attend 90 meetings in 90 days and commit to regular attendance at AA. Perhaps she could recommend sobering up in a treatment facility, in addition. But, those are the kind of details that are normally left to reconciliation talks.

Bank: done.
Kids: with H

Dinner now, Home Depot next...

ML and Ark

Sorry to threadjack. I have to agree with ML

Over a year ago I presented similar choices to my actively alcoholic ww. The choices I gave her were to give up OM, and seek an alcohol recovery program. The third option was D. We were on the merry go round for several years. Until you put your feet down and stop the merry go round the alcoholic will continue to push.

She did not make a choice so I started preparing for D right in front of her. She would make promises like she did in the past to get help. EX-I reserved a bed at treatment center X for such and such a date. Id call tc X-the intake person did not know her. This went over two months. All the while she said she was going to AA and hiding her drinking. I just kept on slowly preparing how to split things, calling on realtors to sell the house, making appointments with lawyers. I would try to consult her for what she wanted. THIS WAS ALL BS that she believed and eventually did make the call for alcohol treatment. I believe she gave up OM just before going to treatment because I couldn't believe the amount she drank.. She now has just over a year of sobriety.
In our situation the alcohol was the elephant in the room. NO other marital problems were solvable until recovery from the addiction began. It is still extremely hard now.

In Julies situation this also is the point-stand tough-In your face Quit drinking/using-

The solution-Leave up to the addict-Treatment/90 in 90/ just quit-Leave that control to be negotiated later if and when it happens.

An alcoholic needs to see very clearly the results of their choices and what they have to lose before it sinks in.
Just my opinion

Chris

DRY DATE 8/1/86
FWS 1986/87
Bs 2004-9/2006?

actually the truth is that melody and I agree...there really isn't anything to disagree about with me..

my only point which your posts makes MY point..
is that you have to set the boundary more then no drinking

and specify a program that must be completed before reconcilliation in the home...that's HER boundary...only not her job or responsibility to do anything about it

the original PBL ONLY states quit drinking...

so guess what if I was her WS I'd call tomorrow and say

I QUIT DRINKING....just like your letter said....

and then they can spend gobs and gobs of time and energy powerstruggling the issue of no drinking vs true addiction recovery...

never ever ever ever ever ever ever did I say or imply she should ever ever ever ever ever take him back without months of sobriety....

a point that in my opinion was sorely lacking in her PBL...
but hey it's just my opinion.....

my point....specify beyond no drinking....cause he'll be on her doorstep tomorrow stating I'm not drinking...

ARK^^

Here it is, I'm printing...no more time for editing:

Dear H,

It is with a heavy heart that I write you this letter. I am saddened by what has become of us - our friendship, our partnership, our marriage. This letter is written to you as a necessity. I'll explain:

The 11 yrs we spent together were filled with countless hugs, kisses, tears, winks and laughs. I have loved you every minute of every day we spent together.

I know I haven't been a perfect wife. I realize that my inattentiveness and my obsessive tendencies drove a wedge into our relationship. I'm sorry. Please know I never wanted to hurt you or push you away. The pain of your drinking and destructive behavior during our marriage has been unimaginable. Continued contact with you has the potential to destroy my love for you and I don't want that to happen.

It is because of this that I must insist we no longer contact each other until you are ready to stop drinking completely and commit to a program of recovery. Please respect this decision. In case of an emergency, or any necessary financial or kid-related or personal property matters, please contact your sister and she will contact me. Once you are ready to stop drinking completely and commit to a recovery program, please contact me, and I will be willing to discuss restoring our family and our marriage.

I’m including our visitation schedule - you are a good father and I want you to continue to see the kids. I think you'll agree it’s not fair to disrupt their lives any more than necessary to accommodate the adults’ problems and that they should be home on school nights. You can have your sister check with me if you need to make any adjustments. It is only in their best interest that you keep all alcohol, drugs, and other relationships you may be taking part in away from them as well. As for our financial obligations, my expectation is that you will continue to contribute.

**Edited to change names

I am committed to a clean, sober, peaceful marriage with you. I believe we can build a relationship that is stronger and more fulfilling than we have ever experienced. As of today, I walk forward in life for myself and my kids, and I want you to walk with us. I love you.

good letter. Batten the hatches!!

I am, as we speak. Um, hmmm...hey, can you UNstrip a screw? The deadbolt isn't biting & in trying to take it off & do-over, I stripped the screw. So the front door is now with-deadbolt, but deadbolt is ineffective. Ornamental. Unless I can UN-strip the screw...or somehow get it out. Crap! Ruining my empowerment trip was NOT part of the plan!!

ugh! This is why I never attempt stuff like this myself! Try superglue!

LOL...that is sheer madness! Nope, it's just going to be an ornament. OH well...chicks & tools = no go.

I DID remember to secure the basement cellar door though. He's broken in thru that one before. And I remember this summer we got locked out of the house & H didn't attempt to break the handle, he climbed in thru DD's upstairs bedroom window. So, I should be good.

good girl!

Good Luck, Julie!!!

Sounds like you'll have to get new screws for the deadbolt if they are the ones I'm thinking of. They should have those at Lowe's sold separately for times like these. I can't imagine why they wouldn't!

Sending positive vibes your way!!!!

Take care,

Charlotte

I can get new screws but the ones in the deadbolt affixed to the door ain't budgin'. And now I'm having issues with the back door. Stupid old house, and me wanting to be independent! I may still call a locksmith.

Plan B has begun - H took letter from my hand. My phone just ding-donged, I imagine that's him (text).

Am I not to read it? Just delete w/o reading?

Nope, it was from his sister, stating he wants to switch weekends with the kids.

So he is using your intermediary?

Yes. Less than an hour after receiving PBL!

GOOD!! He has read the letter.

Yep! Um, is it usually this "easy"? Are they usually this "compliant"? It could be temporary I know. Thing is I've got plans next weekend w/them so I don't wanna switch!

And if he does decide to start texting me, I can't read them? Obviously I won't respond.

Right, just don't read his texts.

Julie

Way to go. I'm pull'in for ya.

Its early yet and it could be this just does not sink in with H. It may take several days until it gets through.

Stay strong and use your intermediary.

My prayers are with you, your H and your children

Chris