Coming back after a few weeks away - let me give you a quick summary of my situation and where I am now. My husband, Colonel in US Army - Commander while in Iraq this past year, came back and told me that he didn't love me anymore. I thought it was PTSD, but soon found out about his affair. I found out this week - he met her while on a public plane (after the children and I said goodbye to him) on his way to the army plane that was taking him to Iraq for his tour. They talked on the plane and exchanged email addresses. She is a 44 yr old woman, never married, no ties or issues - she had tons of time to focus on him while I took care of the children, bills, military families. The affair happened for over a year - on his 2 week leave, they had sex while visiting us here at home while having sex with me. He came back and they had sex continuously while I worked and took care of everything at home. I thought I was giving him time to recover from Iraq - how stupid was I? I even set up time for him to go to the ocean to clear his head - he took her with him. Now he is leaving me, we are divorcing, he is fighting me to get the children - ages 4 & 8. Yes, our 14yr marriage was typical - got stale and needed a jump start - we were not there for each other emotionally or physically because of daily issues. But we always loved each other - we just did not take care of our relationship. We both admit to fault on that. We both are crying over the situation. But he says it is too late now and he doesn't love me he loves her. I don't think I can ever forgive him and I am telling him to go. Why do I feel so sad! What do I do now?

Sally,

First and foremost, stop starting new threads and soliciting input and advice from the folks here and then never returning to indicate whether or not you followed any of the advice. Please see the posts to you below from 31 Jan.

So what have done to help end the affair, to secure your assets and protect your self?

Ok - I am sorry about starting new threads - I will keep to this one. What have I done? I have protected myself and my children by filing for divorce. The only people I have not told about the affair is his commanding officer and his civilian boss. I have told all family and friends. He is withdrawn and stopped talking to anyone but his lover. By telling his boss and his commander - all I do there is try to get back at him for vendictive reasons. I will only look like a nasty person. The Army doesn't care about external affairs - although I did tell another Army wife and she was so upset that my husband was thinking about an affair vs her husband's safety. He is telling me that he just doesn't love me anymore. I need to accept that right? I read HOW TO SURVIVE AN AFFAIR I gave him the book. He tossed it and never read it. Is this it?

As or her - she is a 44 year old, never married, never divorced, drama teacher. No children. Although my husband said she would love to have kids. My kids!!!! I am sick!!! She met him on the plane to go to the staging area for Iraq. She must have known he was married. He had a ring on. She knew what she was doing! She saw he was a Colonel. She went after him and now she is going after my children!!

What path do I take? What training or materials should I read?

Since you read SAA, why didn't you do PLAN A rather than filing for divorce? You didn't seem to gather much understanding of the book.

Because I found a text message - Italy? I was afraid they would run off and I would have to pay for it. There is no way to protect myself financially in my state but to file for divorce. How can I do plan A when he isn't willing to be with me to start Plan A. Help me to understand how and what to do.

PLAN A is about YOU ...not about getting HIM to do anything.

It would involve YOU telling him that YOU want him to come home to work on the marriage.

Agreeing to a DIVORCE is EXACTLY what a WAYWARD wants you to do. It's like your acceptance of the affair and evidences that you are not FIGHTING for your marriage.

I don't know your particulars.

It may be too late.

sally,




The heck they don't. There are more officers sitting in prison at Leavenworth than most people realize for adultry.

By failing to expose to his superior, you failed to use a very powerful tool.

Married officers engaging in adultry is very disruptive to good order and discipline and without these things it is very difficult to accomplish the mission.

Family is very important to the Army and any Commander who knew that an O6 was engaging in an affair and looked the other way would be jeopardizing his or her own career.

Your WH could lose his clearance for his actions.

Have you exposed to the OW place of employment?

You mentioned that he was seeking custody of your two very young children. What grounds is he, an unfaithful husband, using to justify this?

Sadly, Mimi might be right and it might be too late. You do still have to get yourself a really good lawyer to fight your WH for custody.

I find it highly unlikely that any judge would take your children away from you and give custory to a cheating WH who is subject to overseas deployments.

Is there some reason you believe this might happen?

Who

Thank you! No - I think and my lawyer thinks it can't happen. But I am scared. The children are all I have. I am sure this woman would love to have children - but with her current moral code - I can't let that happen! She knew he was married and she knew he had a loving family. She was mad when he went to a superbowl party with me and threatened to come to our house to dump his clothes on our front step. I think she is sick. But my husband is totally falling for it. He thinks she is wonderful!

If I go to the commanding officer - who I know - what if my husband gets so angry he hurts me. He knows how to kill people. I am scared. He says he would never hurt me - but he also said he loved me - I can't trust him anymore. He is very quiet and sad. I just called the VA suicide line - they want him to call them. I don't think he would - but I just don't know anymore.

Do you understand why I am not speaking out?

Sounds just like the FatSlag except that she actually did send around a bag of clothes and yep, they fall for it - its called 'the fog'. My WH told me one day that Slag would be a better mother than me - he seriously believed that my children would prefer a deranged middleaged ex-felon to me! Fog Central. They would never have even spoken to her.


Nah, you are making excuses. People with no history of violence do not suddenly lash out at someone they love.



Nope, sorry

Is this Groundhog Day?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Groundhog Day? Are you saying that I keep reliving this pain? That I am not doing anything? This is just awful and I know it. I want to stop the pain. But again, he wants to be with her. His feelings are so dead towards me. He is just living in the house now to get custody of the kids. Are you saying that I still have a chance? We both said to each other yesterday - If I could turn back time and fix the issues we would. But I asked him today if we still had a chance - he said no, our marriage is dead for now. What can I do?

And to tell you the truth - he is such a different person than the man I fell in love with. He is nasty and grumpy. I said to myself that I would be a model wife and mother this weekend. He walked in the door grumpy and sad. I still say he is mentally ill from Iraq and he doesn't know it. There is a big part of me that says, let the OW deal with him - he is not the best slice in the loaf. But I still love him. Uhh! Why is this so hard.

sally, I am saying that all of your threads are just alike. You tell us your tale, we give you advice: EXPOSE, and you ignore us and start all over again. Groundhog Day!

And your situation is no different than most others here..the same PLANS and ADVICE apply..and would HELP you..

Mimi is right, why won't you let us help you?

That's because he is having an affair NOW..TYPICAL WH...



To do PLAN A, you would do this REGARDLESS of what HE SAYS or DOES.



This is a MAJOR LIFE TRAUMA for any of us who have experienced this...that's why it's HARD...

But again, he wants to be with her. His feelings are so dead towards me...............

Sally, nearly all of the people that come to MB have this same problem with their spouse.

He is just living in the house now to get custody of the kids. Are you saying that I still have a chance?

Yes, you still have a chance. I suggest you call the Harleys , and have them help you with a plan to save your marriage. They are very good at what they do.

But I asked him today if we still had a chance - he said no, our marriage is dead for now. What can I do?

Again, nearly all who come here have a spouse who is saying that. However, many of these same marriages end up being saved.

If you believe him, and you let him divorce you without exposing, and doing all that you can to end his affair, and bring him back to the marriage, you may regret it later.

That's why you are getting the advice you are getting. It's worked on many other cases, and we think it's your best chance to save your own marriage.

You have to have faith, and a starting place. If you really do what to save your marriage, don't give up, and don't listen to your H.

Instead, listen to these folks, call the Harleys, and get a plan. Then run the plan.

Please don't take these posts to you the wrong way. We want so much to see you succeed, and be happy with your own H.

It's hard to convince you that you really might be able to save your marriage, but that's what this site is all about, and many, many others have made it work.

SS

Sally, your H is the CLASSIC wayward we see here EVERY DAY. It is a garden variety, standard affair, no different from the others. We have seen much worse cases than yours come back from the dead.

If you will spend time reading here, you will find that the things your H is saying are TEXTBOOK fogbabbling just like the others.

Why not at least TRY? You have nothing to lose and everything to GAIN.

Hi Sally... I'm going to cut and paste a couple of post's from one of your other threads.

Here's one from me...



Sally...

I know I've talked to you about this before...

Fileing for divorce... or getting a leagal separation is to protect you and your kids...

Ask for...

You to retain the residence for you and the kids...

Kids must not have any contact with other woman...

50% of his gross pay.

for him to pay all of your Lawyer fees and all of the court fees.

for him to pay all of the Health insurance...and any premiums and co-pay

temporary spousal support.

Half of his retirement

half of his Thrift Savings Plan

Half of all marital assets.

Full ownership of your home...

alimony..

ETC ETC ETC...

Give your husband a taste of what divorced life will be like for him and this might give him a wake-up call...

After the Temporary Order is in effect... do nothing....

stall...

this will give you time to work on a plan and the affair time to die... and If it takes 2 or 3 years to finalize the divorce the OW probably wont last that long... She'll get tired of waiting...and you can stop the divorce when you want...

Quote:


44 year old never married teacher.


Do you think there might... possibly...be... a reason for this?...Like... she's a psyco?... or a control freak???

WH is going to find out why once he gets to spend more time with her... I'll bet he comes running back licking his wounds...

Ok Ok I so get it. I understand. He came home tonight in an awful mood. Moody almost angry at all of us that he is stuck here with us. Not nice to the children yet trying hard to do fatherly things. Usually he is a good dad, but tonight he is grumpy. He wants nothing to do with me. I am being over nice. I asked him if something is wrong. No answer. I still say he is mentally ill from the war, the affair, the divorce. I will be super great this weekend, but I'll tell you - this alien that has invaded my husband's body is not who I want. he is scary and ugly. Where did my husband go? Is this the fog?

Here's another from me...

One other thing...


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He comes into my bedroom every night to fight. It is almost like a power trip for him. He was so used to ordering everyone around. He is abusing me. There is no legal actions I can take. Please help me. I want peace.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Go to the Leagal office on base and talk to them about getting a

MILITARY RESTRAINING ORDER.

Tell tell them exactly what is in that quote...tell them you've filed for divorce but he won't leave you alone and that you're afraid for your safety and the childrens safety...If he's made any verbal threats to your safety tell them that...If they give you and crap about giving you a restraining order... Just tell them fine... I hope you have a good time explaing to the General why his CO's spouse in on TV telling the world that we would not help her when she needed it...

I'll bet you get the restraining order...

This does several things....Lets his chain of command know that all is not well on the home front... If he has anger issues he'll be ordered to go to anger managment classes... It documents any physical or mental abuse that he has done and possibly gets him out of the house...

And if there's any physical abuse... report it... he'll get a wake up call from the Chain of command real quick....

STOP WORRING ABOUT HIS CAREER... If his career gets screwed up because of his choices thats on him... Letting his chain of command know about his DIS-HONERABLE actions is the right thing to do... By not telling his chain of command YOU ARE ENABLING HIM to do the very thing you don't want him to do....

Just my opinion...

YES

Here's one more from me....


Sally,

Think about it... did I steer you wrong with Military One Source?....No...

You've been given great advice by alot of people here...

I think you're afraid to do what you know needs to be done... You're the only one in your situation... you have to make the choices about what is "the right thing to do" in your situation.

NOW NOW NOW! Is the time be STRONG and conquer your fear...

Don't be afraid to ACT...If you do nothing... guess what happens.... that's right .... nothing... And it probably gets worse...you'll get steam rolled by your wayward husband wating for SOMETHING to change... You have to make the changes... changes for the benifit of yourself and your kids...not changes in him... Think of it this way... Right now YOU are the only sane one in your marriage and YOU have to be the one who steps up to the plate and makes SANE choices durring this time of chaos...

That's called COURAGE... (The mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty) GOT ANY? I think you do... You just have to dig down and get it... Right now!

You're right... you can't end the affair... He has to...

Read the Carrot and the Stick of plan A by Pepperband... the whole post...

Here it is...


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=


BE STRONG...BE COURAGEOUS

Sally,
I am so sorry that you are having to go through all this. I am sure that any spouse that is cheated on feels so much betrayal, but with just going through a deployment and then it all ending like this has to feel like even extra. I don't think that one can truely understand that unless they have gone through supporting a spouse while deployed. My husband (I don't know yet if he is actually cheating, just that he wants out of the marriage when he gets back) is just leaving for nine months and it kills me to think I could do all this for him while he is gone and then come home and still just turn his back on me and the marriage. Others here act like what is the big deal taking care of everything while he is deployed when if you were alone you would have to take care of anyway, but at least to me it is much different and maybe you understand that. Anyway, I don't have any background to help you as far as your marriage and aren't sure what you are even looking for right now. I know that it seems like you feel divorce is your best option right now and getting slammed for that. Don't really feel I can give advice on that but wanted to let you know that I think you should be able to vent here and not get all this flack. I know that I really just need a place to talk and get support. I do appreciate any feedback on what I should do as far as my situation, but my biggest need right now is to have others to talk about this with. So, I just wanted you to know that you aren't the only one hurting and stressed to the max, I can't stop that pain for you, but willing to listen. Lit

I could post many more from other people that have given you super advice... but what's the point?

Like Melody said.. "is it groundhog day?"


Melody... correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you a military spouse?

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes...

I'm active duty military... 23 year's of military service...

RIF...Is a reservist who's currently in Afghanistan.

There are lots of people here who want to help you who are very knowledgeable about the military.

Speaking for myself… with 23 years of military service… I’m not just pulling answers out of my A$$ that may or may not be right…

Here’s some things you need to do…

1. Expose to his C.O. and his Chain of Command. And I don’t give a damn if his C.O. is the ghost of General George S. Patton… do it…

2. Go to the Family Service Center and get some help… Tons of resources and help are there. MAKE THIS A PRIORITY TO GO…In the Navy it’s the “Fleet and Family Service Center”…. I’m sure the Army and Airforce have an equivalent. See what can be done if he’s not supporting you financially. What can be done if he’s abusive. What can be done if you have a Legal Separation Order that says your primary residence is… and he won’t leave… See what can be done if you’re afraid that he’ll physically harm you. Etc etc etc…

3. Go to the legal office on base. (It may not be necessary after you go to the family support center but it’s an option you have.)

4. Educate yourself … read! Read about marriage builders principles. Read MB post’s ( The carrot and the stick is a great place to start)

5. Work on you and stop obsessing about him… YOU CAN’T CONTROL HIM OR HIS ACTIONS SO STOP TRYING… Instead work on what you can control… yourself and your actions… make yourself a better person that is an attractive alternative to the other woman.

Sally,

Listen to the people here. You’re getting great advice but you need to listen, learn and implement…

[b] YOU CAN DO IT.[b]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

lit1022 - I am going to tell you a story. Last week, I sat in my husband's military honor ceremonies. Yes, honor - by the 5th medal I thought I was going to puke. Honor! I sat there quietly - waiting for it to be over. The moment were the clouds opened up and sun came shining through was when the Gov. stood up - thanked the soldiers for their deployment in Iraq - then thanked the wives. She said - "It is you that paid the heating bill and the mortgage, it is you that fed the kids, helped with homework, got them off to school, it is you that sent carepackages to your soldier - thank you for all that you do so your soldier could serve his country." At that point - I cried - one army wife gave me a tissue and held my hand. I then looked over and another wife was crying. I then grabbed her hand. I then turned around and saw that each Army wife was crying - I grabbed the hand behind me. This is what I would have done at our monthly support meetings - it was time for that again. All of a sudden each wife grabbed each others hand. The Gov. stopped her speech and said - "I see all of you wives holding hands - that is wonderful - I know you were there for each other." That made the entire day for me. It is not about what he is doing - it is about you and how you conduct yourself. I had honor during this deployment. And so should you. My husband doesn't appreciate the sacrifices I made - but to tell you - I could care less. I cried that day because I was upset that he didn't care - but I know in my heart I did my best and he can never take that away from me. There is a 90% divorce rate for deployed soldiers. Realize this is not you. They are so lonely over there - something happens to them. Hold you head up high, fight to save your marriage, if it does not work out, at least you know you did everything you could do to save it. I suspect there is someone else or he is just screwed up. Deployments magnify any issues someone has...esp marriage issues. Work on finding out what those issues are and if they can not be resolved - know that you did what you could to fix things. I am here for you if you need me. My involvment in military wives does not stop because I am no longer a military wife. I am here if you need me. PS - Everyone in his unit is having issues. You are not alone. The Army will try to hide it - but know you are not alone.

OK - so I think I am doing PLAN A - I am being wonderful to him, taking care of myself, exposing him to his CO. What else do I need to do? I jsut found a x rated text message on his work phone and I am sick. He is so sexually involved with this woman I do not stand a chance. What do I do? He looks at me with total disgust. I told him that I could forgive the affair but I can not forgive him walking out on the kids and me. He says he cant find the love for me anymore. He doesn't even know how to try. HELP! What do I do? Is it too late?

Hi Sally...

You've seen me post before to you and another military spouse--Cincvhouse. You posted to her too, remember?

You also advised her well.

Look at the comments I made to her about the "how" to talk to the CO.

You are understandably devastated right now, but make sure you get one thing clear with yourself first... You are trying to fight for your FAMILY, as well as yourself.

You're not "in love" with your husband right now...recognize that. It's the reason you're feeling thoughts about tossing in the towel.

These are the same feelings your husband had that enabled him to justify his affair...

These feelings and the loneliness and anger are powerful and can lead you down the wrong road...

Find your power and face your fear.

Do you really think your WH would hurt you?

By exposing you are asking for HELP, not trying to hurt him. If you understand that, you are recognizing your OWN value and power, Sally.

Who knows what might happen to his military career, but it is not your responsibility to shield him from the consequences of the truth!

I too am so fully aware of the sacrifices those at home make, and have made numerous "speeches" to that effect, both to the spouses when at home, and also to the servicemembers while deployed.

Let us know how you plan to approach this w/ his CO (who I'm assuming is a general).

L2F

One question....Do you want to save your marriage????

I am sorry but I seem confused on this issue. YOu have posted numerous times you want a Divorce, you want him gone and now you are talking Plan A???

If you Remember in your first thread I told you not to make any hasty decisions based on emotion. Have you changed your mind????

Sorry to sound hard, but I find your posts to be confusing. What is the best outcome you would like to see in all of this?????

not2fun

I don't know. This thing that is in my house right now is ugly and crewl. He is not the man I married. I want the man I fell in love with - the reason for these 2 beautiful children. I want him to love me again - which he says he will never do. I want things to go back to normal - but I know they will never again. I am trying to give it one more chance - but even today - he ran away to see her. How can I want this marriage. Help me understand why I am willing to work on something that seems so dead.

((((Sally))))

Ok....let's work with your reply...

You say "I want the man I fell in love with"

You say "I don't know"

YOu say "I am trying to give it one more chance"

These are all statements saying you want to fight for your marriage. This is good...it gives us a starting point. Now, saying "I want my Marriage back. I am willing to fight for it." does not mean you do not have the right to change your mind. It just means that you are willing to do everything possible to salvage it. And that is a good place to be because if YOU or he decides to go Plan D, you will know you did EVERYTHING in your power to save it. You won't second guess your decision later on.

Am I correct in this thinking? You want to save your M?

Ok, I will answer with the assuption that it is.

"Your house is ugly and cruel"....I am so sorry. I am sorry you are in this God-awful situation you did not ask for.

"I want him to love me again- which he says he will never do".....fogspeak, WS babble....we have all heard it...Heck I hear it all the time...it's a killer that's for sure, but think your WS as the alien or drug addict or drunk, which ever one floats your boat (my favorite is from a wise man, Mark...he says to think of the WS as the teacher in the Charlie Brown specials... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />..the one you can't understand that talks like this...wah wah wah wahhhhh.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. This analogy makes me giggle...which helps with the pain of the babble)

"Help me understand why I am willing to work on something that seems so dead".....because you have a history with this man, you loved him once and deep down you know you still love him (not the alien though), you have two beautiful kids that deserve a whole family/home, you don't want to end up bitter....there are a mirade of reasons. And they can change everyday. That's ok. It's normal to feel this way. Remember, its a rollercoaster. Yeah, we didn't ask for the ride, but we got it anyway. It sucks I know. But do know that all of us are here for you and want to help you. We can help you through this walk through the valley of death.

Now, that being said, I am not a VET. So I can encourage you, pick you up when you are down, listen as much as you need, but my advice will be mimial. If you have seen my thread, I am only @ 3 months from DDay myself, and am dealing with all the same (well, kind of) things you are. And I have not been the most stellar of students at times <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, so I won't be offering any advice as far as what to do in Plan A or Plan B.

So keep your chin up and chest out...and be on time to class...

(((Sally)))

you have people that care.....

not2fun

Not2Fun,
Great post...

Sally,
Listen to N2F... Maybe you can relate to her better than you can relate to me.

And just to clarify... I'm not trying to encourage you to get a divorce... I hope and pray that your marriage is salvageable, but there are no guarantees. What I was trying to say about getting a legal separation or filing for divorce is… It’s a strategy that might be used to help the affair die a quicker death and may help your wayward husband wake up… Once you have a legal separation…. STALL…Do nothing to help the divorce along. And if at a later time you want… you can stop the divorce.


The only answer I can give you is why I’m fighting for my marriage… I still love my spouse… even though she’s being a cake eating, faithless, deceiving cheater right now.






You seem in conflict… not sure if you want to save your marriage or not… but I think deep down you do want to save your marriage… That’s what N2F is trying to get you to see… (do you want to save your marriage???) That’s the first question you need to answer to figure out what direction you need to go…

Look at N2F’s signature line…


Sally,
Being conflicted and having your feelings change from one moment to the next is pretty normal… I’m sure there’s a lot of good advice out there for this. N2F could surely explain this better than me… LOL…

Sally,

(((((Hugs for you))))

It will work out one way or another… things will get better…

Keep your chin up… And Keep Smiling (It makes them wonder what you're up to) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Amazing...


"Not2fun,
great post"


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....we don't want anyone to know I can do that from time to time....they might think I'm LEARNING something.......LMAO

But thanks...

OK... I'll keep it on the "Down Low"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...LOL

And...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm smiling like a [censored] eatin briars.... Just to keep ya guessing...

Sally - Thanks for the reply, sometimes I really feel quite alone in all of this. I don't have much time to write as I was busy all day getting ready and will leave tomorrow to go and visit my husband. He flies out then next Sunday. I am so hoping things go well during our visit. I still need to work on getting the cell phone records and then figure out who he is calling. But for right now I am going to try and really enjoy the time we have together and hopefully send him off with all good memories. I know that you are strong and will get through all this and I will check in again in a week. Lit

Not2Fun - thanks yes great post.

As for me right now. The past two days I have fought to do Plan A. Family activities all day and night. Now it is Sunday night - he has gotten really angry as the day went on. He finally was sitting on the couch after we put the kids to bed. I asked him what is wrong. He said, "I have to go to her!!!" I said, "Go I am not stopping you." (I know you are all going to be mad at me for that one.) "It is your lawyer that is telling you to stay to get custody of the kids, but I am not stopping in your way - stop blaming me." After 2 hours of talking - he left crying. I told him that the marriage is not the issue here - the issue is that he does not have God in his life and he is so scared of his mortality that he is confused. I think he is mentally ill from the war. I think that he faced death and this affair is his way of trying to deal with everything. I told him that he needs to find something to believe in - what ever religion he picks is fine - because all he is doing now is following the devil. "But find something!" I am not an overly religious person - but ordeal is bringing me face to face with my faith and the fact that he does not have faith is the reason why he is where he is. I can't help him - he has to help himself - just like you can not help an addict unless they decide they need help. Believe me, I am making it hard for him and giving assistance, but for correcting himself - he has to do that.

As for my marriage - guys I am trying - but for now - I have to face the fact that it is over. I love him - but not the type of love he wants right now. Right now he wants xxx rated mindless sex. I am lonely too and I want to be loved - but he doesn't see me that way. Oh and by the way - I am a 5.7, 130lbs, 36C, knock out. He sees me as the mother of his children only and not sexy.

I really think he is going to explode because he is so confused and she is pulling the strings. I have to protect my children and me. I let it be known that I am concerned for my safety and that I do not feel comfortable with him in the house to everyone. I actually feel better that he left tonight. Let him figure himself out, let the mystical affair die. He is going to lose his honor and family for this - but so be it. I just don't want to be the reason why he feels like he is trapped. I told him tonight that I am scared of him, he says he would never hurt me, but I see way too many news articles on situations gone bad.

OK so tell me if I am doing anything wrong. Give it to me if you think I am wrong.

I pray he leaves me alone right now to heal and move on with my life. If there is hope in the future - I will work on the marriage - but not right now. I will not speed the divorce but let it run it's course.

You are doing more of a "Love Must Be Tough" plan. And that is okay.

((((Sally)))))

I hear your pain. I really do. This is why I say not to get the D yet. Your emotions are on a high, sensitive speed right now. I know, I am in the same boat. Even today I was ready to throw in the towel.

Now, as far as asking him what is wrong, don't bother. You already know the answer. All you gain by doing this is ending up arguing and LBing and getting no where. Yes, you cannot control him from going to her. I personally won't yell at you for saying it, but I can imagine the way you said it, in a judgemental yelling tone. Am I right??? That there is a LB.

Honestly, you don't know if see's you as only the mother of his children and not sexy. Heck, maybe he does find you sexy and that is why he is mad and wants to go to OP. Just to remind himself why he wants her and not you. Maybe he is mad that he finds himself still attracted to you. He is going through MAJOR conflict right now. We BS have no idea what is going on in their foggy little brains.

So, what Plan A stuff have you been doing??? Do you know what his EN's are???? Lets figure that one out together and go from there.

Are you seeing a therapist?? What about depression??? Are you seeing any signs??? What are you doing for YOU???

We know he is a mess. But what about YOU????

not2fun

ps...and stay connected here...people really want to help you....let us do that....((((Sally))))

Have you considered trying Marriage Builders? Why not try to save your marriage before just throwing in the towel? Marriage Builders has some plans called plan A and plan B, and while there are no guarantees, many marriages have been saved this way.

Have you considered trying them before just throwing in the towel for absolutely NO GOOD REASON? Just a thought...

Sally,
I don't think you're marriage is over. You shouldn’t either. N2F is right… your emotions are in overdrive… as expected… don’t make a decision based on emotions that you may regret later…

After I found out that my wife was cheating, and moving out I went through a lot of the same things you are… I was really hurt, pissed, mad, etc… I was ready to file for divorce and never talk to or see my cake eating wayward wife again… (In retrospect that was my way of trying to hurt her back.)

I haven’t filed for divorce… I talked to several attorneys and I have one that I’m going to use if it comes to that. But I haven’t filed and she hasn’t either… That may be a good sign. If you haven’t filed and he hasn’t either…then that may be a good sign for you too… and may send a signal to him that you want to work on the marriage…


N2F is right on the money… Your husband is in MAJOR conflict. Understanding that my wife is very conflicted helped me a lot and helped me cope with all her fog babble… I think a lot of the things a wayward says is meant to justify in their minds their affair… For example… my ww say’s that she’s extremely resentful about how I handled money. And I admit that I had a lot of independent behaviors that were bad for my marriage. In her mind that’s justification for what she’s doing… She’s said things like… I can’t ever trust you again… You’ve been screwing me over the entire marriage and I’m not going to let you screw me over any more… Then the next day she’ll call me and be civil… She’s in conflict… one minute she’s bitter and ugly… the next she’s not… It’s nothing new… It seems every WS goes through the same thing… conflicted… they’re looking for justification for their actions all the time and when you don’t give them that justification (and quietly start doing the opposite, giving them reasons to stay without saying it out loud.) they start having second thoughts…

It’s been said that plan A is like a whisper… Pepperband say’s in the Carrot and the Stick…. “Like that commercial in the 70’s… If you want to get someone’s attention… Whisper.”

Sally,
Everyone here uses a lot of Marriage Builders acronyms… (LB, OM, OW, WW, WS, DD, DS etc…) If someone uses one you don’t understand just ask… I’ve had to do it a couple of times…

You’re doing great… Keep asking for help… We’re here for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks - Yes - do not understand the acronyms and I need to have a step by step guide on what Plan A and B are. I have been looking around the website - but I can't seem to find it spelled out for me. Would you direct me or summarize A&B for me? So this is a good sign that I want to learn these things. Right?

Reason for my learning - tonight - he came home after being with her all night and day and now he says he wants to try to save our marriage. He says it can not be saved, but for the sake of the children (ages 4&8) he wants to try. Why? Because I am seeking custody and he knows he will not be with them everyday. I also called his mom today and told her to butt her nose into her son's life if she doesn't want this other woman to take him from her too. Guess that hit a nerve. After talking with his mom - he went back over to her house to talk. OW told him to try his marriage and that she loves him enough to let him go. Nice tactic by her. He says he loves her so, and has never felt this way about any other woman. The two of them "love" each other so much. I reminded him of our romance, but that was 17+ years ago. He doesn't remember falling in love with me.

So now, I have been given the chance to have a horrible marriage for the sake of the children. Nice. I didn't answer him on what I wanted. I told him to sleep on things and read SUVIVING AN AFFAIR. I said we would talk another night.

Any suggestions on what I do now? Is what he is saying fog or is there no chance for him to love me again? Do I want to be with this terrible person that doesn't love me but feels pity on me for the sake of the children's happiness?

To answer another question asked of me from before - yes, I am seeing someone to guide me. I am doing fine. My friends and family can not believe how well I am dealing with all of this. I told my mom - it is only good - one outcome is that we stay together and our marriage gets stronger - the other outcome is that I move on and I meet someone down the road that loves me for who I am and adores me. I just need to get through this rough patch right now.

So what do I do and is all this normal?

Yes this is a very good sign.


Not a good thing... That's your wepon against the affair... you don't want to give away all your strategies...

Have him read His needs her needs.. or fall in love stay in love... You need to read them too...



It's all fog babble... don't be surprized if he want's to stay one day and wants a divorce the next... He's in a state of confusion... Both of you can fall in love with each other again but it will take a lifestyle change and time.

Righ now you need to plan A your [censored] off... I'll see if I can find some links for you... Start with the carrot and the stick of plan A...

I wouldn't even have him read a book... He's not in the state of mind to be receptive and it would probably come across as a love buster to him...

You can't educate a wayward spouse...So dont try...

More fog babble...


How do you know what the OW said? Because he told you? I wouldn't believe anything he says right now...

Just watch his actions...


Yes... It's normal...You're going through the same things that everyone here has gone through...

You're on the right path Sally.

Plan A and Plan B Article Link....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

(((Sally)))

Good to see you tonight. Yes it is a good thing you want to try a go at it. But honestly, you need to make this a firm decision. You will have days where you don't want this, there will be days you will be craving a D, but if you stay firm in your decision to wait on those, it will help with the rollercoaster ride. Heck, when I told my MC that I had looked into D and what it all entails and came away with a peace about doing D, she thought I was filing the next day. I told her I wasn't planning on it, I am still too emotional for a decision like that, but I wanted to know what a D entailed and what to be prepared for. The information actually helped me to put my focus on saving my M and making changes for me.

What do you mean he asked you what you wanted???? Which, btw is a infamous WS question. I get it all the time.

So what you do is Plan A. So very basic guidelines on Plan A are

1. meet all emotional needs of spouse
2. stop all love busters
3. have no expectations

Do you know what emotional needs are??? If not, read up on those and try to figure out which one's are your WS.

Do you know what Love Busters are??? If not, read up on those as well and try and figure out which are the ones you do.

No expectations...that means you will meet your WS emotional needs and stop all LB's and not EXPECT any of your EN's to be meet or his LB's to stop. It also means you will do those things without EXPECTING any kind of reaction from him.

Now, I know that will infuriate you. Heck, it does me too. But, Plan A is not something that supposed to be long term, not while the A is still going on.

Have you read "Surviving An Affair"? If so, re-read it.

Are you interested in doing MC with the Harley's??? Something to consider.

Also, be prepared that if he says he is ending contact with his other person (OP), that he WILL relapse. In fact, EXPECT that. Think of him as a drug addict needing his fix.

And last but certainly not least, stay on these boards. Especially when you are mad, angry, hurt, or frusterated. This will be a lifeline for you. There is nothing like surrounding yourself with folks who know what you are going through....

not2fun

N2F,

Another great post...

See... You give great advice...

And I saw what you said earlier... It's easier to see the right path when it's someone besides yourself...

I concur... But that's why this board is a life saver for me... I get good advice from people who have been there and are not emotionally involved in my relationship...

Thanks Amazin

Now if I could only follow my own posts.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for advice. So it is now 11:30 - at 10:30 I asked for his phone so he could not call or text her. He said that she was so upset when he left he needed to make sure she was ok. I said then give it to me after tonight, and he didn't answer. He again said he was sorry, I said back holding his hand, "I love you more than you will ever understand." I went to bed.

At 11:15, he knocked on my door and told me that she took pills. He needed to call her. I told him to call 911 and go back to bed. He said that this is not the first time she has taken pills. What type of woman is this? What has my husband brought into our home w our children?

He went downstairs to talk with her. I heard him tell her about my wanting him to take a few days before we talk and decide if we want to save the marriage. I think I heard him tell her he loved her and said good night. He then saw me listening. He was crying and he again told me that he was sorry. He asked that I make an appointment to go marriage theraphy. I held his hand and told him that he needed to give himself a break - that so many soldiers are committing suicide or getting addicted when they return. He just needs to get better. This man is so messed up on so many levels. I will work to get him help. But how do I get rid of physco chickee?

Hang in there. You can do this. She is using threats of harming herself to hold on to him. And he, being a white knight kind of guy, is falling for it.

You are doing very well. He feels safe in talking to you about this. Keep it up.

And don't worry if he only wants to save the marriage because of the kids. Doesn't matter right now why, just that he is open to the idea.

Hmmm you cant... he has to decide to get rid of her... or she has to decide to get rid of him... You need to make yourself the most attractive alternative for your husband when it happens...

Oh... I just wanted to point something out in one of my other posts...

quote:

44 year old never married teacher.


Do you think there might... possibly...be... a reason for this?...Like... she's a psyco?... or a control freak???

WH is going to find out why once he gets to spend more time with her... I'll bet he comes running back licking his wounds...

Keep reading Sally... I've given you some great links... read them... Read your books... keep learning...

Hang in there Sally <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thinking of you and wishing you the strength to believe in yourself enough to do what you need to do...

L2F

Sally,



I already sent this to you.

IMHO, I believe that the reason your WH is angry is because he is so conflicted about what he is doing. Honestly, he is addicted to this OW and I don't think that he will be able to go to NC without you exposing the affair to his COC.

Exposure is pretty much considered an essential tool around here for ending the affair, but you have to do what you chose to do.

It also appears to me that the OW must sense that he may not end up leaving you and may stay and work on the marriage. She sounds like she doesn't want a part time relastionship with your WH, she wants the whole deal and won't settle for less.

That is why she is really desperate at this point, ie. taking pills etc. I have been there with my FWH's OW, as soon as he decided that the A was a mistake and tried to end it, she started trying every trick in the book to keep him involved with her.

Her actions did succeed in keeping the A going for a few more months during which my FWH got increasingly angry with everyone.

I still really think that you need to expose the affair and I also think that you need to just take deep breaths and be still.

FWIW, this is not over, and neither is your marriage.

Who

Schedule an appointment with Steve Harley IMMEDIATELY!

He said he wants you to schedule a marriage therapy session -- USE THE BEST!

Go to a Marriage Builders weekend! Check those out!

And do you know her information? Her name and address?
Next time she pulls a suicide stunt YOU call 911 and send them to her house.

Great Idea!!!

Be careful with the 911 call.

OW could spin that into you making a prank call unwarrranted when they arrive.

If she is playing the pity card. I suspect she is... What is she going to tell the EMT's when they arrive?

"I don't know what your talking about, I'm fine..."

Meanwhile 911 operators have you on record.

On the other hand, a phone call to the police, requesting advice on how to handle OW's potential suicidal threat would cover your butt. I suspect would also generate a visit to her home.

-JKT

Hi Sally
Just wanted to jump onto your thread to say that my H had a psycho who did the suicide thing too. Turned him off on the spot. It is a massive LB!

No wayward, however foggy, is going to want to continue a relationship that is built on blackmail. Takes all the fun out of it!

Good luck and you are making great progress

My MC told my WW if OM was lying bleeding in the street to call 911 and NOT let him in the house...

Sally, you're doing great!!!

One common theme that runs throughout your posts does concern me, though.

You mention what "this war is doing to marriages", and that it has "left him totally screwed up", etc...

One thing I'd caution you NOT to do is try to psychoanalyze him... (like I'm about to do to you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)

There are plenty of ditch diggers or grocery clerks who get involved in Affairs and act just as messed up as he is.

Is he suffering from PTSD? Perhaps, but the only people who should be making such a diagnosis are those with training and direct interaction w/ your WH.

"Labeling" it appears to be a mechanism to try to understand it or make it more "palatable" to you.

This might sound harsh, but the fact is, Betrayed Spouses (BSs) sooner or later have to come to terms with the fact that their WS chose to be with someone else.

It's a huge blow to our self-esteem, and accepting that just plain hurts!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

In my opinion, you're better off reading up on MB principles and read Pep's "the carrot and stick of Plan A"

Some of the things you've been saying to him are disrespectful judgments (DJs), in that you're assuming you know what's in his head and you're telling him what he's thinking...a major Lovebuster (LB).

Again, this is REALLY HARD, Sally, and you're doing great...use your time to educate yourself on what's going on and in so doing will learn much more of the nature of affairs in general...

...this in turn can restore some of your faith in the future of your M(arriage).

L2F

Thanks to all for posts. SO HELPFUL!!!

I did expose to CO. He told me that he would have a talk with him. He went to an Army meeting tonight. Don't know if it will happen tonight - I am waiting.

As for how I am feeling right now? I told him that I would work on the marriage. But to tell you guys the truth - how can I ever trust this person again? He makes me sick. He isn't even interested in trying to find love with me and he doesn't see what a wonderful person I am. Everyone of my friends and family are telling me to dump his butt to the curb! I know, for the children and I agree - but don't I deserve better than this? The more attractive and distant I become the more he comes to me.

I do want to have a meeting w/ Dr Harley. We can't go to the West Coast. How do you get an appt with him otherwise?

PS - I am tired of this drama - maybe the two sick love birds like it because it is exciting - but I just want to have a normal life with a normal guy that loves and appreciates me.

Good Job!


You can trust him again... but it's gonna take effort by both of you... your marriage didn't get to be in this state over night and it won't get repaired that way either.

Staying for the kids is good... but you really need to stay because you love each other...staying for the kids is the wrong reason...

Don't listen to the people telling you to dump him... Some people will never understand... And if they were true friends they would support you either way and not try and sway you to leave him...

Look at the top of this page... see the link that says..."Counseling Center" That's the link for counseling with the Harleys. They do phone counseling... I would definatly set up a phone session ASAP...tomorrow if you can. I just had one tonight with Jennifer.... Steve does them durring the day... Jennifer in the evening. Maybe a Marriage Builders weekend would be good too... But I think you need to take baby steps here.



I understand... the drama is emotionally draining... but you're doing great... You need to get strong... when you're stong the drama wont drain you down so much...the fact that he said he wants to work on the marriage is a super sign...

Keep your chin up Sally... You're making progress...

Sally,
I have been reading your thread and wanted to say how much my heart goes out to you. The heartache you're going through must be just unbearable. Please know you are in my prayers.

I tend to agree with you on the feeling that the war has seriously affected your husband. A lot of people simply do not understand what our soldiers have gone through over there, and how HORRENDOUS it is, on a daily, hourly, if not by minute, basis. By no means am I trying to make light of his terrible choices and the things he's done to your marriage, but I think you're right, he is very messed up and the trauma over there may have affected him so severely he can't deal with it. If I understand your posts correctly he is a commander, right?

I agree that until he gets right with God he will be in turmoil. Your post about how you held his hand and told him that he needed to give himself a break touched my heart, and I'll bet it really did his.

There are no words to describe what our soldiers have endured over there...so many people do not know the ordeal they have been through. Our son did a tour in Iraq; we are so very thankful he came home safe, however I can attest to the dramatic change in him after his return. He was extremely depressed and will not discuss it.

I'm sorry I don't have any advise for you other than to pray.

God bless,

Thanks for the kind post. Yes, he was the Battalion Commander. Responsible for many lives. I think that may be one of the reasons why he is so messed up right now. I remember when he came home for his 2 week leave - he was so upset because a 18 year old that was trained by his men was blown up by an IED. I think it affected him more than he will ever know.

As for our marriage - I am not very hopeful. In the past 48 hours since he told me he wanted to work on it because of the kids - he has been in constant contact with her. There is only so much pain I can take. I am independent, beautiful, and successful. I don't need him. One of our arguments today discussed this - I think he is running to this crazy lade because she is so needy and I don't need him. What is interesting is that I said to him today that I needed him and he was not there for me when I needed him most. I learned to live without needing him. I think he misses me needing him. He also mentioned to me today that he is mad at the fact that I have so many friends that love me and that I never loved him as much as I love all my friends. But what he doesn't understand is that all of my friends love and support me. My house is filled with flowers and cards from friends that are helping me through this. What goes around comes around right? In more ways than one.

What is the Army doing about the affair? They will put a STOP to his affair. What is happening with that?

I called his CO - full Colonel - he told me that he would have a talk with him. He said that he just gave up command and was not his commander as of last week - but would speak with him about the situation. He told me he would call me back after speaking with him. I don't know if he called yet. This is the National Guard - not active duty. Different protocol and politics. I know he will speak to him because he gave me his word - but I don't think anything will come of it.

ok, so you called the wrong person. This needs to be reported to his CURRENT COMMANDER in order to make it official. They will put a stop to it. Something WILL come of it if you do this correctly.

Sally, is there some reason why did you did report this to the PROPER authorities? The man you called is no longer in a position of authority, so is not a postion to do ANYTHING. Or was that the point?

Military affairs are about the EASIEST to bust up through exposure. Most are DOA when exposed. But you have to do the exposure.

I've been trying to stay away from your thread..kind of frustrating...

Why are you having "ARGUMENTS" with your WH? Did you decide not to do PLAN A? Have you read up on PLAN A and what it involves? Do YOU want to work on YOUR MARRIAGE?

Sally,

So your WH is currently no longer on active duty status, is that correct?

What is his civilian profession?

Also, Mel is right, exposing to a person who no longer has any command influence probably won't help much. As your WH is National Guard and was a BN commander, I would consider going to the office of the state TAG. A battalion command is a position of extreme honor and very difficult to be selected for. BN Cdrs are held to a high standard and frankly, your WH has dishonored him self and his service by his actions.

Someone here has already advised you on how to make an appointment with the Harleys and if you haven't done it yet, then you need to do so.

Honestly, no one here will fault you if you decide to divorce your WH, you have that right. But, decide you must because sitting back and basking in your own attractiveness isn't going to help your WH find his way back to your family.

You see, his affair probably has nothing to do with the way you look. My FWH's OW literally weighs twice as much as I do and is really homely. He didn't chose to have an affair with her because of her looks. He became involved with her because she was totally willing and enthusiastic about meeting some of his important EN's that I was neglecting.

Understanding the MB principles will be very helpful for you whether or not you stay with your WH or not. Read Mimi's comment again on reading up on plan A.

Any relationship you enter into in the future will benefit from understanding how to identify and meet the EN's of your partner. You see Sally, that every relationship and marriage is at risk for infidelity, MB can give you the tools to build an affair proof marriage.

You say that your WH is willing to stay and work on the marriage. Well, if that is what you want, then get with the Harley's so that they can help you both understand what it will take to recover your marriage.

If it isn't what you want, then you will need to devise a different type of plan. You once mentioned that you had already filed for divorce. What is the status of that action?

Who

Thanks for post. I walked away from website for a week because we decided to divorce and the post by mimi made me upset. I understand she was frustrated with me - so am I - I waffle back between saving the marriage and giving up. I am sorry for that.

I will update you guys on what is going on.

We had been talking a lot. Mostly trying to figure out why the marriage failed - for my own sake. All the time, he was texting and contacting her. Even in between our discussions when I walked out of the room. So you see, it is hard for me even to try knowing how terrible he is right now. I contacted and exposed his affair last night to his boss. But I think all I did was look vendictive through e-mail and now he will never forgive me. I apologized but there is no turning back. I am sick over it because that is not the person I want to be. I know you all tell me to expose - but I did not feel good about it.

The main reason for our failed marriage is that there was no communication and he was not there for my emotional needs when I needed him - miscarriage, death of my father, boss/work issues. Over time, I stopped caring for him - and we did not have the physical love he needed. So he turned to the internet and now an affair. We are both at fault and now it is too late. He will never fall in love with me again and I don't think I can ever trust. It is so upsetting - both of us are sick over it.

The best we can do at this point is come to some civil arrangement for the sake of the children. I thank you all for trying to help me. This website is great - and I know in the future - I will work on the things that were lacking in this relationship and I will take your advice on how to keep a relationship strong.

Sally,

I know how you feel. I believe there is always hope for the marriage. It's not too late, he can love you again, and you can trust him again.

I hope that you will consider this.

I was listening to Dr. Harley on the internet. They were talking about celebrity divorces and how they always cite "irreconcilable differnces." He went on to say that there are no differences that can not be reconciled.

I believe that you and your husband can overcome anything and have a happy loving marriage together.

I hope you can believe that too.

Sally,

Please don't feel that you need to apologise for shining a light on your WH's action. He knew that what he was doing was wrong.

I think how you feel about exposure is more about why you did it. If you did it to try and save your marriage then you had every right to. Once exposed, the WS has to look at their actions as seen through the eyes of others.

Perhaps, in the past, your WH has had to take action against a subordinate for exactly what he is now guilty of. Kinda makes him a hypocrit, doesn't it. Do you honestly think that he believes he is in the right here? I would bet not.

This affair will not last, you can be sure of that. But if you don't want to recover your marriage, I sure can understand that. Recovery from an affair is tough, painful, and seems to move at a snails pace which makes it frusterating as well.

When we started out after d-day, I had no idea how hard it was going to be. Perhaps if I had, I would not have tried, but we did and we finally made it.

Now, I am glad to have put all the hard work and effort into it. But that is me. You have made a different decision and that is your right.

I wish you luck and happiness in your future.

Who

Thanks whome and amazin. Uplifting and true things I need to hear. I did not realize how angry and hurt I have been. That anger has made me less attractive to my spouse, but to tell you the truth, I needed to vent. I have been keeping it all in and the other night it just got the best of me. I told his boss and now I think he may be in trouble. I told him because I wanted the affair to stop and for the text messaging to stop. I feel terrible. I know you all told me to do it, but now I feel bad.

I need to move on and find myself. I know and so many other people know how good and true I am. This entire affair has made me less of a person than I want to be. I can't concentrate on anything but how hurt I am. I need to move on with my life and not let it keep me in this sadness.

As for him, he is sad too. I think we both realized we messed up and messed up big. In time, the wounds will heal, but for now they are raw. I need to stay away from him so we don't fight. We just had a decent conversation on the phone and I think for now, it may be best for us to talk this way. We did make a marriage counciling session for next week. Not to get back together, but to figure out how not to be mad at each other for the sake of the children.

So how am I doing? Is all of this normal? My Plan A failed because I just could not get over the anger. And to tell you the truth, I could not forgive at this time. And with him constantly seeing her, I could not do Plan A knowing that is all going on. I realize that he is going to be with her and there is nothing I can do. I need to move on and I deserve a person that loves me for me, appreciates me, and does not use and lie to me.

Sally,

FWIW, I know with a pretty fair amount of certainty that I would not have been able to pull off a plan A while the affair was on-going.

For me, I got so tired of my FWH's short temper and general unpleasantness during his affair that I did the best I could to not be around him. I started spending more and more time with my girlfriends and when he started acting unpleasant, I would simply get up and leave the room.

So, I guess you could call that a plan A, but I didn't yet know of the affair. By the time I found out, OW had LB'd him long enough that he had ended the affair.

I am really sorry for you and everyone else here that is going thru this. Just plain sucks to walk in the shoes of a BS.

You are wise to try and keep things civil with your WH. His affair will not last and perhaps some day in the future, he will wake up and things will work out when the pain isn't so new and raw.

Good luck.

Who

Thanks for the kind words.

Question to all - why would my husband still stay in the house while active in the affair and we are divorcing? Isn't it strange? I keep asking him to move in with her and he will not leave. He says it is because his lawyer is telling him to stay to help him with child custody. But if he is having sex with her and tells lies all the time about the affair - isn't that doing more harm than good for his court case? He goes out and over her house 2-3 times a week. He pretends like he is still being a father and husband - checking in on me to see if we need groceries or things done around the house. Isn't that strange? I am not a needy person and have been doing things all by myself the 1.5 yrs he was deployed. At this point, all he is doing is turning the knive in my heart. How do I get him to stop and get out for good?

I know what you are thinking? Why aren't I trying to save the marriage? I have asked repeatedly and he says there is no hope. We are going for marriage counciling next week for the first time - not to save the marriage - but to try to find some common ground on how to get through the pain and anger. I think both of us are just so sad about what has happened. We both need to come to civil ground to be able to be there together for the children in the future. It did take me a while to get calm and move into plan A after I found out about the affair. I am just moving through this now, accepting that he is leaving me for another woman. Not getting angry - just letting go.

Is my situation normal? What is going on in his head right now?

That is called having your cake and eating it too! It is much easier to carry on an affair from the comforts of your home. He can enjoy all the benefits of a married man while chasing his ho.

The way that you get him to stop is to get a legal seperation on the grounds of ADULTERY and get him removed from your home via court order. THEN go into Plan B.

But if can have his affair from the comfort of his home and no one will stop him, why not?

My state does not have legal separation as an option. Adultry is not even looked at in the state. How sick is that? I can claim it, but my lawyer says that it really won't change anything. I went to the State Police and they confirmed what my lawyer said - unless he is violent, I can't get him to leave. I have to wait for the court case which could take a year. Is that fair??? Why do I have to suffer like this???

Well, if you file for divorce you can get him removed. I would speak to your lawyer and get temporary orders on the grounds of extreme mental cruelty. File for D and then drag your feet once he is out. His affair will crumble FASTER if he is out anyway.

Ummm what state are you in? If you don't mind me asking...

Even if your state doesn't have legal separation filing for divorce may get him out of the house. But I'd have to research and see what state you're in.


My state doesn't have legal separation either. But once you file for divorce that does certain things for you.





Key words there... "he says" It doesn't matter what he says... it's what you want and what you believe. Stop making decisions based on anything he says.... He's saying that to justify his actions in his mind and continue the affair.

What do you want Sally? Do you want to try and save the marriage? Or do you want to just give up and let him go?


Here's something Mark posted about "doing what's best for the kids" and the effects of an affair and divorcing on children when they're older.

MIL left her husband for OM when her daughters were teenagers and preteen.

1 was married 4 times, now alone. She lost a son soon after first divorce to an accident while he was with the babysitter while she worked her second job. Her daughter is married for the second time. Her grandchildren are in therapy.

1 is with her 4th husband. She got pregnant at 14 and married at 15. She has 4 adult children by 3 different men and one she gave up for adoption because she was single (divorced) when she got pregnant. Her oldest was living with a guy when she got pregnant by someone else. Now married to a different guy. Her second daughter lives with another woman. Her son and his wife are in counseling. Her other son...she has no idea where he is.

1 has had multiple affairs after getting pregnant and married at 17. She got pregnant by another man and kept it a secret for over ten years. Her husband has raised that child as his own. Her daughter is divorced and has a child she conceived with another guy before moving home with the child at the age of thirty.

1 has been married for 20+ years and seems to have a good life....but she lives 1000 miles from the rest of the family. She was but 9 when MIL left with the piano teacher.

They all get together for funerals.

MIL is still married to her OM, but she sees her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren about once every 3 or 4 years and seldom for longer than a day or two at a time. Two of her great grandchildren she has never seen in person; they are 3 and 4 years old.

It's the price she paid to be with her "soulmate".

Her XH (FIL) was married to someone else for 30 years. He died and now his and MIL's children call his widow "Mom" and their children call her Grandma. They visit her several times per year, even though she lives several states away.

Just something to consider...

SallyG

I've just caught myself back up on your thread...

A couple of things really jumped out at me.

You are/were Plan A'ing, now you're D'ing, then you're going to counseling with the following "plan"...



From where I sit, you are still in your own fog, Sally.

You are rushing to a conclusion that is in no one's best interest...not yours, your H's, and certainly not your children's.

I say this because I too went to counseling w/ WW in order to do the same thing.

That's called divorce counseling, not marriage counseling, and its something you can do if you want to only to stop the conflict in the divorce.

Personally, I think you need to STOP yourself, catch your breath, read up here, then CALL THE HARLEY's for counseling.

The liklihood you'll find a counselor with ANY understanding of the underlying cause of and recovery from A's is remote, at best.

Again, STOP, do NOT pass GO...CALL the Harleys.

PLEASE!

If only for the children...at first.

What's the rush, exactly?

Because A is still going on?

That's why you're Plan A'ing

That's why you're supposed to be boning up on MB.

That's why you're supposed to be learning how to be still

You exposed...that is a tactic designed SOLELY to stop affair, not to punish WH.

You said you told his CO in order to get the text messaging to stop, now you're divorcing him?

?????

NO wonder you don't feel good about exposing...

OK, I've said my piece on that.

Now, to business...

Your husband has told you of some of his emotional needs (ENs)...did you hear them?

If not, go back to your previous posts and listen again to what he told you.

He needs someone to need him.

You told him you needed him, now show it, rather than demonstrating by your actions (filing for D) that you don't.

What are his other ENs? Find out.

What are your Lovebusters? Find out.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh or frustrated Sally, it's just that in the grand scheme of things, this hasn't been going on all that long and you need to be patient, loving and develop a PLAN, rather than let your emotions drive your actions all over the map!!!

((((SallyG and her family))))

L2F

(OBTW, I too am a "full Colonel" equivalent in another service...)

New Jersey

Sally,

From what I've read... It is possible to have a spouse removed from the marital house in your state. It may be hard to do... but it can be done...

Read this.

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_jersey/removing_spouse_from_marital_home

You are wonderful to take the time to help me. I read it over. Ya, looks tough to do. I can't understand why he would want to put the children and me through such hardship. I understand that he wants his cake and eat it too, but how selfish he is on the pain he is causing others. Hard to fight for my marriage with this pain everyday. I just want to heal.

I have another question to you experts -

He says that I didn't send him a love note everyday while he was in Iraq. That really hurt because I did send him notes and we videoconferenced and I sent him carepackages every two weeks. I also took care of the children, the house, my job and looked over all of the military families as the commander's wife. The other woman is not married, no kids - all she did was contact him - just like she is doing now - constantly texting him all day. He even just said to me that he doesn't have time to get his job done.

I can't believe after all that I did for him he says he picked her because of her daily text messages over our 14 year marriage. If he would have told me that is what he needed - I would have filled his mailbox to the max with love notes. I prayed for him and held the kids - he never told me that is what he needed. But again - I did send him notes, cards, packages - why doesn't he see or remember that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He doesn't see or remember that because, quite frankly, he doesn't recognize anything positive you do right now. For him to give you any kind of credit would cut into his justification for the affair he is involved in. He is going to spin your relationship in the way that best supports his position. That won't stop unless or until he starts seeing flaws in the affair relationship.

Sally,



...you really don't think it's a case of text messages, do you?

The thing w/ WS's is that they say lots of stuff like that...comparing what OP does for them w/ what they DON'T get from you...it's all rationalization.

Any comments on my previous post re exposure, counseling and divorce?

L2F

Have you read Surviving an Affair? It says several things about this... something to the effect that the betrayed spouse can do all sorts of things to make deposits in the wayward spouses love bank, but it wont register becuase they aren't paying attention to it.

I know it's hard but you need to learn how to not to let anything he says bother you... and if he does say something that is hurtful and bothers you... Keep a poker face and don't let him see it. If nessasary come here and vent, and get support...but don't love bust on him with angry outburst, disrespectful judments etc...

L2F, just an FYI, but she has been in Plan A much longer than 6 weeks. She needs to go into Plan B now and the only way she can do that is to remove him from the home. He won't leave. In her state, they do not have legal seperation, so she is left with filing for divorce. She cannot endure this abuse much longer and clearly is ripe for Plan B.


Sally, your H is an addict who is rewriting history in order RATIONALIZE his affair. In order to justify his affair, he needs to characterize you as a DEMON. He has the mentality of an ADDICT right now and you know the things he is saying are not true, SO YOU SHOULD STOP LISTENING TO HIS BABBLE.

Do you understand that, Sally? Would you take seriously the drunken rantings of a FALLING DOWN DRUNK? Of course you wouldnt. It is the same with your H. Stop listening to his babble.

Did you see my post about filing for D in order to get him removed?

Sally,

I though you said you filed for divorce? Have you?

If you haven't I would seriously consider doing this.

Have you retained an attorney? If you have an attorney and he has given you bogus legal advice on getting your husband out of the house then he may not be competent.

Find a good attorney... I found one in the Philly area that is very knowlegable of military divorce laws. Shop around and educate yourself before you retain an attorney... It makes a big difference.

Exodus1414, Learning2Fly, Amazin,MelodyLane and others that respond - THANK YOU!!! I was feeling so down this morning. Your posts helped me realized that it is not me - I am not a Demon or ugly - he is just going through this thing that he has to justify and he has to make me out to be bad to do it. I am trying to be Mary Poppins, but I will tell you - I look at him in disgust and it is hard. But because of all of you - I will try harder.

Yes, this has been going on for too long. I did file divorce immediately after finding a text message from them talking about Italy. I was afraid he would run off with our credit cards so I filed and cut off all financial ties. I also found a good local divorce lawyer that was recommended to me by the church (if you can believe that one) because they see the pain I am in and want to protect the children too. My lawyer says that the trial for custody won't happen till the beginning of 2009. I don't think that is fair to have him in this house until then.

I exposed him to his boss - but I am sure he lied to get out of that one and made me out to be the bad person. I tried to expose him to the Army - but failed. He has a new CO and I don't know him. At this point, I would only look like I am trying to get him back for what he is doing to me. I am not a bad person and don't want to get even. That is not me and I won't go down to his level. Right now, I would rather concentrate on getting him out. He won't leave till he gets the children - that is just another selfish thing he is trying to do. He is not thinking about what is best for the children.

I think you are all right. The Army warned us about drinking and drugs after they came home from deployment. This is his addiction. But there is no way for me to stop it - only he can realize that. I have called the VA, I have set up therapy, I have told his mom to help him - nothing has worked. Maybe he wants this addiction to rule his life? Maybe he wants this new life and I just need to accept that and let go. As you can see, I am still torn and confused. My own fog right? As time passes, I realize this man is not for me - I deserve better. I just can't understand how he would throw everything away. We could have worked on fulfilling each other's love tank - that would have been so much easier than the path he has chosen now.

Any advice of what I do now?

Yes, Sally, get ahold of your attorney and get a seperation agreement that removes him from the house. Wait a couple of weeks and then go into Plan B.

In the meantime, I would expose the affair to the PROPER AUTHORITIES and stop putting it off. You are wasting your valuable time by delaying this. Who cares if he thinks you are doing it to get him back? It doesn't matter WHAT he thinks about it, you still do it. Your H is not going to like being exposed no matter what.

I would also suggest that you expose to the OW's parents.

Yes...read this post... Ark's Be Still

Then, have a great weekend...and take a "day off" from thinking about this...it wears you down.

Then go back and reread this thread from the beginning...

L2F

Great advice Learning2Fly and ARK. I read it and understood. I have also been doing a lot of reading with some great books to help me understand everything. I know now just to be still and understand I am not the first and I won't be the last person this happens to in our society. I am taking a deep breath and concentration on what matters - children, God, my work and especially ME. Thanks for all your help!

How are you doing today, Sally?

L2F

Hi - I am back and wanted to let you know how I am doing as well as get some advice on next steps.

WS is still with OW. He has made up his mind that this is what he plans to do. We went to a therapist and he told me that he has not loved me for years. I asked the therapist what type of man could go to war, pretend to love his wife, let her suffer, leave her with all the responsibilities of the kids and home without even caring about her or loving her. The therapist told me that he is disassociated himself with me - turned off his feelings. They actually teach that in the military. I think it is not human. I am so hurt and in pain still over being betrayed and used.

I have come to a better understanding that God has a higher purpose for me. That he is trying to make this as painful as possible for me so I remember this feeling and I move on. There is happiness for me down the road - I just do not know the why right now. So I have put myself into God's hands to lead me through this darkness.

WS is still in the house and will not leave until I give him joint physical custody of the kids. Or so he says that is the reason. I don't know if it is or not. He will not move in with her - and I dont understand that one. If he loves her so much wouldn't he want to be with her 24/7? We still argue over what happened in the marriage - why we are where we are today. It is really strange. He admits now that he is mad that I make more money than he does. I found out that he treated the women in his unit - while he was their commander - like dirt. I feel so bad for them because they could not defend themselves like I can. I think he has a real issue with women and since I am not submissive to him and he can not overpower me - he does not want to be with someone like me. Amazing how he never voiced his needs or who he was until now. I have to believe that this is meant to be and God is trying to help me get out of this.

BUT IT IS SO PAINFUL!! PLEASE HELP ME STOP THE PAIN! HOW LONG WILL THIS CONTINUE? We were married 14 years and have 2 beautiful young children. I feel as if my entire life that I have built is falling apart. I know it takes time to heal. But tell me what I can do to move on. It is so hard since we are still in constant contact with each other. It is like he throws salt in my wounds everyday.

I took the children away for vacation this week and he keeps calling us to say hi to the children. It hurts everytime I talk to him. But you would be so proud - I have finally come to the place where I am able to talk and be nice and tell him what a great time we are having. I have finally come to a place of stillness. I have finally listened to your posts and I am trying to be still....or move on.

He says he will always love me but is not in love with me. Why can't this heartache end? PLEASE HELP and GIVE ME SOME UPLIFTING ADVICE. When I get sad or full of fear for the future - what do I do to make myself feel better and get over that immediate pain? Thanks to all that post to help me.

Hi Sally,
I've been thinking about you and your situation. I read your last post and I have a question for you... Do you really think God's plan for you is to divorce your husband? I recently gave my life to Christ. I'm still very new in my faith and I'm still learning to listen to what God wants me to do and his plan for me... It's kind of strange but I have this feeling that God is going to use me to get to my wife. Have you thought of that? Maybe the Lord want's to use you to save your husband?

Sally,

Is your lawyer working things out with his lawyer. My questions is, what does he mean by joint physical custody?

If he is asking for your children to live with both you and he, well, that isn't very good for them. If he is merely asking for joint legal custody with a liberal visitation plan, then that isn't unreasonable.

By the way, if your H has told you that the Army teaches detaching from family, well, he is pulling your leg.

Who

It is interesting that you ask that. On Holy Thursday, I realized that everything that was going on with me what because God knows that my husband does not believe in God and heaven - he does not care about consequenses because he doesn't believe you will meet God someday. So it is easy for him to be immoral. Since he does not believe - he will not be with me as I pass on. I do believe I will meet someone that will believe and I will be happy with someday. I am also trying to explain to my husband about mercy and forgiveness. That he can realize that he can change and that God is there trying to help him. There are so many people that are trying to help him and show him the way to God - but he continues to not listen. So I continue to drop little hints and helps to help him get there. I pray for him that he finds his way. So to answer your question - yes I am the tool that God is using for him to find God. Unfortunately, it is at the expense of our marriage. If he finds his way and does turn back to the marriage - that is wonderful. But that is not happening and he is turning to his affair and his new life. There is only so much I can do - I need to move on and find a way to be happy.

My husband wants the children to live with him 2 days during the week and on every other weekend. That is not fair to the children. Again, everything is about him and how he wants everyone to do exactly what he wants. It is not best for the children - they are not ping pongs. They are already fragile from not having him here while he was away at war. Having them in flip flop from house to house during the week is not fair to them. But he can not see that. So selfish. My lawyer is talking with his lawyer - but this will go to court. Terrible.

Sally,

How old are your children? As I recall, your WH is in the NG and was activated for deployment. Is he still on active duty status?

As I understand it, the only way that joint physical custody is given is when the divorcing couple live close enough to each other that the children would go to the same school.

Interesting, my next door neighbor had joint physical custody of his two daughters (they were around 9 -10) and they did just what your WH is suggesting. It seemed to work well for them.

I think a lot of what develops will depend on your WH's intent with regards to OW. I believe that you can stipulate that he can't live with OW and still have your children over-night. But of course, if you divorce and he remarries the OW, well that changes everything.

I guess if it were me, and I didn't feel that my WH would be abusive, I would agree to the joint custody to avoid a long, nasty, very costly court battle, which will probably be equally harmful to your children.

If you are resolved to move forward, you may have to compromise with him in order to get him out of the house.

Who

very very sorry for the situation your H has created for you and the family and I think his 'plans' if you can call them that for the kids are so unrealistic.

disassociation from your wife/husband taught by the Army.. well in our Army anyway ... and we work closely with the US Army ...is rubbish ... they if anything encourage contact contact contact where that is possible. Special forces is a lot harder becaue of their type of jobs and all but they do not encourage soldiers to desert their families. They promote the family as the main stay of their support.
Can soldiers become this way due to what they have done or seen? yes but thats a different issue. My H has been through it and probably will again...sadly thats a thing that all pay for what they do especially in high risk tasks. Some more some less. Mil wives and families will understand that one.

Strangely enough my H also has real huge doubts about God and Christ when before the war he was a strong Catholic. The war has put it there no doubt at all. I work with the family support group and its so so common to hear the men will say 'you dont know what its like' or 'I can't talk to you' from the wives.... and yes its very hurtful and frustrating that they won't even try .. it's like being locked out isn't it?

It can and does get very selfish and they only see how THEY feel and anything they do to feel better is not only ok but justified... even if they have to invent reasons for it. Sadly it appears to be what your H has done.

Unfortunately you cannot change him or lead him or show him he's destroying his family ... not unless he is willing to do these things. Its not fair and its certainly not right he has placed you here, but right now I feel you need to look after yourself and the kids and protect yourselves from his disconnection or whatever he thinks he has.

I'll pray for you and the kids,, and your H .... and hope at the least the kids will have stability with you.

all the best

AW

Our children are 4 and 8. Way too young to be moved from house to house. He doesn't even have a home in the area and is not looking. He says he can drive them where they need to go. But again, he is not thinking rational - he has to leave for work by 8am - the bus comes at 8:30 for my one child and the other attends daycare and gets there around 9am. The bus comes back at 3 - so I don't know how he thinks he can do it. I just can't see making these children suffer anymore. This is so unfair. Why can't they understand what an affair does to a family. Why couldn't he have just communicated his needs to me? If he would have done that - we would not be in this situation. I would have done anything to save our family. But with the ongoing affair - he has just chopped the head off of our marriage.

Aussieswife - you sure know everything about what is going on with me and how I am feeling. As a military wife - you give up and understand so much. But you always think and pray they will come home to you. You worry about their lives - not if they are cheating on you via internet while at war. I pray he finds his way - as he is lost.

I am taking care of me and I have become closer to God because of this situation. Like never before, I am standing under the cross praying that things will work out for the best. It is also keeping me from doing anything out of anger or hurt. The suffering is great. I do think there is a reason for all of this pain. And I do think that somehow this situation is God's way of bringing me closer to him and somehow will help my husband that there is a God and he needs to find him. Only time will tell.

Thanks for understanding me. You helped me today. You are an angel. I will keep the faith - stay still - and let things work themselves out. Take care!

Sally,

The fact that he hasn't taken the logistics involved into having the children moved between residences is actually in your favor. You see, once he actually starts thinking about it he will realize that is won't really work without loads of coordination and inconvenience to him.

Have you considered using a mediator to discuss how this will work. Also, what arrangements will he make if he is deployed again. These are all questions he will need to provide the answers to if you actually end up in a custody battle.

The point is to make him start thinking about what his future will be like if you do divorce. It is likely that the effort to see his children will have a negative impact on his relationship with the OW.

I speak from experience. Early in our divorce proceedings, my XH indicated something about wanting custody of our 2 DD. When he realized the impact it would have on his life, he changed his mind. After he remarried, his new wife made it clear she wasn't interested in that lifestyle, and before long she would just disappear everytime the girls were visiting. That marriage lasted less than 3 years!

You might even be able to work out a trial period to give him a taste of what he thinks he wants. I'll bet the OW, having never been married and never having children will really have her eyes opened.

Who

Thanks WhoMe. I totally agree with you - with his two jobs - National Guard and civilian job - I think he knows he can't handle it. But I think his plan is to have this other woman take my place. She is a drama teacher and I think he has found the perfect mom. When we were talking the other night - he said one of this biggest problems with me is that I didn't fold his clothes right. Should be interesting to see if she is as perfect as he thinks. If that was his biggest problem with me so be it. As I said in one of my last postings - God has a bigger plan for me - and it isn't folding this man's underwear.

I just wish he would move on. So I can heal.

He asked me the other night - "If God is real - why would he destroy our marriage." I told him maybe because he wants to make it stronger for us or make 2 marriages stronger the next time around. I later thought about his comment and told him that God didn't destroy our marriage - he is the one that made the decision to do that. God gives us free will and what we do with that free will is up to us. I still feel he is lost and his soul is empty.

If anyone has advice on how I can help him find his way to God - let me know. I think it is best right now for me to take care of myself and the children - hopefully he will find his way. I have certainly found my way to God during this ordeal. I am thankful for that.

Hi Sally,


ROFLMAO!!!

Sally, I sure hope you see the humor in this...

My WW recently lamented how she'd "scrubbed my underwear" all these years...I had to laugh, as I was the one who was more likely to be doing the laundry, making the bed, doing the dishes, etc.

I'm sure you realize that any such comments on his part are purely self-serving and, if he were forced to defend them, would fall flat...I'm sure he doesn't even believe it himself.

My WW often said I was too critical and judgmental, yet I've been walking around the house today and have been filled with memories of how her world was even more restrictive. Towels had to be folded just so, yet laundry could pile up for over a week if left to her.

Not sure where God comes into this, Sally, but as you mentioned, he did give us all free will and your WH is pissing it all away in spite of God's "plan".

I'd strongly recommend you steer well clear of "God" talk w/ WH...it's counterproductive and he'll use it (as you saw) as a way to argue with you and avoid what he's choosing to do.

My WW was brought up Catholic, and I'm largely agnostic. How it is that she's able to justify such a sin while I see it clearly makes me realize that God is within and cannot be forced on someone from the outside.

YOU are strong...focus on that, rather than how you WH is weak and wrong.

L2F

Learning2Fly- thanks for post.

Yes, I am concentrating on me. I am looking and feeling more strong and fab everyday. I get down from time to time knowing he is with her emotionally and physically - but I try to wipe that out of my head when I can. I am trying to avoid him - eventhough he is still in the house.

Today, he mentioned to me that I never wore 4 inch heels in our marriage like I was wearing today. I said I most certainly did. I reminded him that when I picked him up at the airport with our children on his 2 week leave from Iraq I had them on w/ white short shorts. He didn't tell me I looked good (I lost 25 lbs while he was gone - from size 12 to size 8) when he saw me. He was already in love with the OW he didn't even notice me. This was before I realized about the A. Now I understand why he didn't say anything to me that day. Why is he noticing things about me now and telling me hurtful things. Example - my weight when I got pregnant made him unattracted to me and is why he had the A? Just so everyone knows I gained 10 pounds for each of our 2 children - it was not like I even went out of my weight range for my height.

He went to church with us today - he cried as usual during the mass. Why do you think that is? Why does he even go if he does not believe? Why is he living 2 lives? Both can't be healthy - I know I give him a hard time and he sees me in pain - she must get mad at the time he spends with me and the children. Why does he do this?

Hey Sally!


You know what? He does this because it appears he's starting to "get it"...

He goes to church because he's starting to get back in touch w/ reality.

He cries because he feels the impact of some fundamental truth

He's noticing you because he's not taking you for granted anymore.

His comments about your weight are just plain babble...don't respond, react or acknowledge. He's only trying to assuage his own guilt at having strayed...if he can point to something "wrong" with you, to him it somehow lessons the sting of his own choices...

You don't need to point that out to him...no point.

Your understanding that is for YOU, not for him...at least not yet.

Interesting going back and putting the pieces together from before D Day...things make more sense now.

Are you still Plan A'ing?

Re-read the Carrot and Stick...

and enjoy your day!!!

((((Sally))))

Would you help me - the link to Carrot and Stick is not working. Where do I find it so I can read it again. I am so bad with love busters. I need to bite my lip - but it is so hard when you are in pain. I will try. Thanks for helping me find the way.

Hey Sally, I bumped Mark's thread...the Carrot and Stick are about the 4th entry down...

Mark's Troubleshooting and Repair Manual

I too am not so accomplished at biting my lip, but am getting better.

Once you truly understand that you don't have to take everything a WS says as being relevant or worthy of a response, you can sit back and chill a little more.

L2F

Just read it - every word. Awesome! Thanks! I will be still. I will do my best and look and feel my best. I will take care of myself and the children. I will not speak ill or sting with comments. I will move on with my life and if he wakes from the fog - that is good. If not, I am still better for it because I have taken the steps to be me.

Yesterday, we took our children to a playground. We had just come from a recital so we were dressed up. While watching the children play, I got on a swing set. With my red heels and nice dress I began to swing. I began to swing so high that I felt like I was flying. I yelled out - "I am getting my life back and it feels great!" He looked over at me with a puzzled look on his face. I have not been on a swing in years and I forgot how great it can be.

Thanks for help. Life is too short to be sad - enjoy it because there is something great to come!

**************************EDIT*********************

Question for everyone - Is trying to minimize conversation with WS while they are in your house and having the affair a love buster? To make sure I am not getting into any conflict or issues - I am trying to be still. Is that a love buster?

I say no... as a matter of fact that sounds like what you are supposed to be doing...

There's a thread out there that talk about this. Babbling back is one of them. I cant remember who's post it is though. Minimalizing conversation is just a way of avoiding love busting and is a way to babble back at the wayward spouse...

I haven't had any deep conversations with my wife for a while... Normally it's very short and to the point... not ugly on my part... just direct.... When she gets ugly I just sort of agree with her... or say I see.... or I understand.... It usually throws her for a loop.

One time I asked her a direct question that she wasn't ready for... I asked her who would put sugar in her gas tank...(I knew it was her OM #1) It cought her so off guard the only thing she could say was... "I don't want to say over the airways."......LMAO... I knew who it was before I asked the question... I just though it was a normal question that someone would ask and it blew her mind....LOL....Then I asked what she did to piss this person off.... She got real defensive... So I let it go....LOL

It just felt good to know that she's no different than any other wayward spouse and that she's just following the script....And since I have already read the script I pretty much know what she's going to do... It's some what comical and comforting at the same time...

Amazin-thanks. Would you explain to me the script of the WS? I would love to know.

He is still in the "I love you but I am still not in love with you" phase and so the affair is going strong. He called me twice last night on my cell when I was out > 10pm and 1am > no message. I then found a note from him on my bed asking if he wanted me have him drive a friend to the airport at 5am this morning that I promised I would. I did not wake him from his room - I did it myself and ignored the note. So why is he trying to do things for me or be nice when he is being so terrible by carrying on the affair? If he was nice - wouldn't he put that on hold or end it with her? He still thinks he can have his cake and eat it too. I think he is beginning to realize that this shortcake is not waiting around for him anymore And just for the record - if I could save my marriage - I would - he wants nothing to do with me sexually. He wants me as the mother and caretaker, but not the girlfriend.

So can you tell me the "normal" script of a WS? I know they are all different - but I would like to know what may be coming at me so I can read the signs. Are there stages?

Sally, how's it going??

Sally,

As a fellow military wife, I hope things are going better for you. It's so hard to watch them change and become somebody you don't recognize.

LA.

Thanks for checking in on me folks. I know you are all out there and I appreciate the check in. That is so important that you don't give up on people.

Here is where I am today. We are moving forward with the divorce. He still will not leave the OW and he still says he does not love me anymore. I still say he is ill from the war, but now I am realizing that this has probably been going on even before he left. He lives 2 lives - cilivian and military - and that power from the military life is just too delicious for him. So be it. I don't like that person anyway - it makes me ill to see how he treats people when he is like that. I still love the other person - but that person is almost dead - he comes out every once in a while - but for the most part - he is dead.

I received a great promotion for work and I asked to joint custody of the children in two different places in the country. He wants me to follow my dream - so he wants me to go. We are working together to figure out the custody. We are still trying to figure it out.

In our meeting - we both agreed we still love each other - but it is not going to work. It is terrible - but I can't make him love me and leave her. That is his job. I have to move on. I wish him happiness.

What do you think?

Sally,

Is he still living in the same house with you and your children? If he is, since you are proceeding with the divorce, is he planning on moving out or are you?

Who

Congrats on the promotion Sally!!!


...what he "wants" for you is irrelevant, and it looks like this "desire" is meant to both relieve his own guilt and make his A easier...it's babble and it's a waste of time to listen to.


Tell us about the beginning of your marriage...how you were first attracted to eachother, and what life as like...


Remember...plan A is not to end affair, it's to make you the "attractive alternative"...something you've been showing him...that is when you're not lovebusting...


hmmmm. Were you not attracted to this "power" in the beginning?

FWIW (for what it's worth) I think that most military leaders who have been around long enough recognize that "power" and "control" are largely an illusion...especially when it comes to war.

I'm sure one thing your H saw in Iraq was that try as he might, those under his charge still were killed or maimed, and there wasn't a damn thing he could do about it. That's a tough pill to swallow for someone who's supposed to be "in charge".

Believer mentioned something in a recent post to another about "buyer's remorse", or the feeling by the BS that perhaps their WS might NOT be worth the trouble. So true, and it's normal.


Good!


ummm, OK... Besides the ongoing affair and the revision of your marital history by your WH, why?

Have you done a phone counseling session with either of the Harley's yet???

WhoMe - yes he is still living in the house. He still calls at 5pm to ask what's for dinner. Makes me sick - we have not told the kids yet so I am stuck. Once the custody is finalized, I can tell the kids and get away from him. He is still having his cake and eat it too. Taking the job and putting the house for sale is the only way I can get out of this bad place in my life.

Learning2Fly - thanks for the congrats - I am so happy and now I can let go and start my life over again.

You asked about the beginning of our marriage - we met during the 1st Gulf War - same tape that he is playing with her - love notes, songs, pen pal, etc. That was 17+ years ago. He is reliving our lives from that time with the OW now. I was attracted to him because he was strong and protective. I was just out of college. He did not have power then. We both became powerful together-he in his job and me in mine. He stopped taking care of me over the years, protecting me, especially when I had children, was sick, or had cancer scare. He was not there for me emotionally so I stopped asking for help and did everything myself. Now he calls me "superwoman" in a bad tone - but if he isn't there to help and he left me to become independent, what does he expect. I am sure the attraction between him and the OW is her need to be protected and taken care of. He wants total power and that is just not healthy for a spouse - therefore I recognize this relationship is not healthy for me. I want a 50/50 partnership with a spouse and one that cares and appreciates me. He wants someone to praise him and give him all of their attention and be sexual 24/7. The OW can do that - not married, no kids, no house, no responsibilities. He has found what he is looking for.

I said to him - I am going to call you in 17 years and ask you if you love her like you say you love me today. I said, I bet you won't. I said only 3% of affairs last and of them the marriage success rate is 25%. He said he is not a percentage. I told him that is good that he thinks that way - good luck!

As for phone and marriage counciling - the therapist we went to told us that if he is in an active affair - we should not bother therapy all it is doing is hurting me. She was right. I stopped the sessions - it hurt too much.

Just a thought...when he asks, ask him if he's still involved w/ OW. If so, then he can make his own dinner.

This is a boundary issue...he keeps crossing yours, because you're letting him. This in turn makes you madder at him...a viscious circle.

Sally, we cross-posted! A couple of thoughts...

I recognize fully the futility of joint counseling w/ a spouse in an active affair. The phone counseling I was referring to was primarily for YOU.

Yes, he is reliving an old tape.

Are you saying he can't change?

YOU did, and for the better, right?

You are a stronger, more loving and more aware person than you were so many years ago, aren't you?

I recognize your H from your description because that was much like me and my relationship so many years ago. I took way too much for granted, I was focused on me and my career...my WW was helping, supporting, and raising the family. I didn't fully understand that I wasn't growing my marriage too...it was on autopilot.

This A has made ME grow so much. I am a much better person for it...not that I'd recommend this route to marital bliss to anyone else, mind you.

I guess what I'm saying is that while your H says he's not a statistic, he is just like every other WS you read about here on MB. He is not special, he is a caricature of himself. He will not see it until something comes crashing down and makes it real for him.

Have you read the 31 Reasons to Stop an Affair? Good stuff, and something worth leaving for your H to read.

Here's the link: 31 Reasons


Are you sure you know what he wants? That's a DJ, Sally, and you keep doing that.


Don't we all!

An often-used (but never over-used) is that having the perfect marriage isn't about finding the right person, it's being the right person!

Learning2Fly - you are so right - next time I will be the right person. I have grown so much and learned so much from this experience. Everyone I tell what is happening to me - I tell them to work on their marriage everyday - they usually run home, tell their spouse of my situation and talk about how they can make their marriage better so this does not happen to them. Guess something good is coming out of this - I am helping others and I am learning never to get to this spot again.

In my next relationship - I will make sure I fulfill the needs and let them know when mine are not getting fulfilled. Live and learn.

What is a DJ? Thanks for help on that meaning and what I am doing.

He won't get it until we are gone and the house is gone. So sad - but what else can I do? I am reading the article now. Thanks!

Hey Sally,

A DJ is a Disrespectul Judgment...a lovebuster. Go to this link, if you haven't already:

lovebusters

You are certainly growing so much Sally...the only thing I'd recommend you do more of is paying more attention to all the things your WH is "saying". Not the words, but the actual actions, i.e., going to church, spending time in the home, etc., etc. Perhaps he's waiting for you to "crack" first so he can come back home completely...who knows.


Don't be in such a hurry to force the marriage to a conclusion...hold a steady course...that of marriagebuilding.

I know many here have jumped on the "get a divorce" bandwagon, but ultimately you're the one who needs to honestly assess your readiness to do so.

What's the rush?

If you truly can't stand it any longer, certainly go to plan B to protect your sanity.

There's no doubt that next time you would be the right person.... just calmly evaluate the need to end this time, that's all.

Have a wonderful day!

P.S. Did you ever get any closure on exposure to his current CO?

Learning2Fly - if I went to his current CO - isn't it too late? We are in divorce procedings. If I went to him now, wouldn't it look like I was trying to be mean - what could be gained at this point? Too late for that. I made a mistake - it is too late for that now. Right? I went to his boss and his xco - no one cared - they all thought I was a terrible person. No one cared.

((((Sally))))

What I was asking was if you had gone to his current CO, I'd lost track of your sitch and wasn't sure.

That would have been when you were still trying to plan A.

I know you are now on the divorce path, but don't forget, that's something you are in control of, and can choose to get off of at any time...if you so desire.

Something you said concerned me...
Tell me more about what happened. What did you do/say?

I called and pleaded with the xco to talk with him - that I was concerned for my husband that he was making a mistake. He said he would talk with him. I don't know if he ever did. He said he would call me back - he didn't. We live in a society today that it is ok to cheat. I am learning now that it is so common - even the courts don't see adultry as a reason for anything. It is sad. When I went to the police to ask how to get him to leave the house - the police officer told me that my job was to take care of him as he returns from war. I tried - I called the VA to get him help. They did not help me either. They said they would call him to ask him to go back in. I never heard back from them either. No one helped me. It is time for me to move on - I told him that I can do no more and that only he can help himself. Everyone looked at me like it is my fault that my husband had to find another.

Sally, I'm so sorry.

I'll be perfectly honest...the services do NOT know how to handle infidelity. The problem is, adultery is VERY hard to prove and quickly becomes a he-said-she-said issue, and many COs (like leaders in the civilian sector) just don't understand...unless they've been there themselves.

Unless there's abuse, all a WS has to say to his chain of command is that the BS is "crazy", a "bitc#", delusional, etc., etc., and the authorities can all-too-easily move on to more "pressing" issues.

I've found that the chaplains are the best resources out there. Ombudsman can be as well, depending on how well grounded they are.

In my experience, if the BS has a good relationship w/ the ombudsman and can calmly and clearly outline the problem, there can be some traction with the command.

However (and I saw this when I was a CO), the frantic, emotional and "obnoxious" wife who would demand to see the CO because of this, that or the other, was all too easy to brush off.

If I'd known at the time that my own W was having an affair I most certainly would have handled this quite differently.

The truth is, the subject of adultery makes people uncomfortable and it's soooo much easier to avoid and ignore than it is to do the right thing.

FWIW, I am engaging with the command leadership school in my service to add this topic to the pre-command curriculum. An uphill battle.


That sure stinks, doesn't it??!!

We all know that's not the case, but it's the only "explanation" that the uninitiated can understand to explain the behavior of the otherwise respected and admired WS...

Jeeeezzzz

Sally, best of luck, and don't stop growing yourself.

L2F