I'm hoping some of the BS's might be able to help with this? I spoke with my H about a text that he received from a female friend of his, something I wasn't comfortable with. He told me I had absolutely nothing to worry about, he's in love with me. Since that point in time (just earlier this week) I have snooped a handful of times and have found that he regularly deletes ALL of his incoming and outgoing text messages as well as all of his incoming and outgoing calls. I know he used to delete them somewhat regularly, but now it's at a constant. Am I being paranoid, or is this something I ought to be paying closer attention to?

I'm the one that had the A, but I'm concerned that conversations may be happening that are inappropriate, and that's why he's deleting everything. What I've learned from all of you is basically anything that I wouldn't want him to see, shouldn't be happening, and the same is true in reverse. I <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

There is no reason to constantly delete emails and messages unless there is something to hide.

None.

But that's just my opinion.

Huge red flag.

Do you know this woman? What is the basis of their "friendship"?

Have you told him how really uncomfortable you are with this contact?

I would start right now with POJA and talk about it. I would also start snooping deeper.

Ilove,

I never ever think about deleting my phone calls on my cell. It's actually easier if I don't because I can then just hit talk, the list of my last 20 calls comes up, and I can scroll down to who I want to talk to.

And after they drop off after the 20th call.

And, gosh, what reason would anyone have TO delete them???
Well, no good reason that I can think of.

It is also an added process to do that. Like deleting the history on the computer.

I think you have good reason to be concerned. Check the phone bills.

kirk

Agreed, why delete history if there is nothing to hide?

What "reasonable" excuse is there?

ILMH,
First,
it might help to just state what the actual text message you read said. (sorry bout the rhyme there)

Did the deleting behavior start only AFTER you read the inappropriate text?? (upon re-reading I guess you already said it did)

In any case,
without knowing what got your radar up in the first place .........my view is that although this doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself ........it can't hurt to keep your eyes and ears open.

It sure does sound suspicious .....for him to start covering his tracks, AFTER you find out something.

We all tend to "kinda" KNOW when something isn't right .........but don't always heed our own gut.

Again,
if this is the ONLY thing amiss, it may be nothing.
However,
IF there are OTHER signs or behaviors as well .........then you may have problems.
Stay alert.

Post deleted by crayola_mb

One of the first red flags I noticed in my WW's behavior was her deletion of call logs. Not a smoking gun by any means, but certainly a very big warning sign.

You brought it to his attention that you were uncomfortable with a text message from a female, after that incident he begins to delete all of his messages...because he now knows you have been reading the messages...I don't think you are being paranoid at all..If he wasn't deleting BEFORE you discovered the message that made you uncomfortable, it is reasonable for you to feel suspicious of his behavior now that he appears to be covering his tracks. There would be no reason for him to delete all of his messages unless he is attempting to prevent you from finding anything else that may be deemed innapropriate.
Keep your eye on him.

Yes, you should be very concerned.

Along with other snooping, keep checking his phone. Sooner or later he is likely to forget to delete something.

In a word, yes you do have a reason to be concerned. As you and your H know, secrecy has no place in a marriage. If he is hiding things, then he obviously has something to hide.

Or perhaps, he just wants you to think he does. It is possible that because you are a FWW, he wants you to have a small taste of what it feels like to think you might be a BS.

As a BS, I can actually understand that line of thinking. It is wrong, but understandable, especially in the early times following d-day.

Just the same, I too would recommend further investigation.

Sorry,

Who

Can you log into the cell account online and get a record of the incoming/outgoing calls and texts?

My DH and I have a policy of NO DELETIONS on either of our phones and we are welcome to puruse the others' log at will.

Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

I agree with other posters - this requires more investigation...

The first text that I read from her said
"I'm leaving *** at the end of the school year. I'm sad, scared and uncertain. Hope you're having better luck. XXX."

He's always deleted everything in his phone, just not with the regularity that it seems he may be doing it now. He's told me so many times how much he loves me. I'm going to give it a few days and see if he continues to delete things regularly. I guess what freaked me out last night was that he was out for about 4 hours, I knew he would be, he is every Friday night and when I took a look at his phone while he was in the shower, the only call that was still on there was the one he made to me while he was parking the car. That means that just before he left, or right before he made that call to me, he deleted everything in his phone. I guess I find the timing of doing it stranger than anything. I sent him a text that he got just as he was leaving. If his phone was empty except that last call, then he took the time to do it, at a strange time. There are no other signs. I told him that the text he got from her made me uneasy. He said I had nothing to worry about. He had plans for work to make a trip to her town on Tuesday, but won't be going now. I thanked him for not going and although it was a minor exchange, he understood why I was thanking him.

I'm the one that had the A. Why would he be hiding things from me now?

If any of this has taught me anything, it's to trust your gut. If you feel like something is wrong, then check it out. An argument now could save you years of pain later. I doubted my gut and allowed DH to gaslight me for four years. Now we have to recover that. I knew all along that something "felt wrong."

Go with your gut. Hiding things means a secret. Ask him to share everything with you. If he refuses or says that you're too demanding, think twice about believing him.

So sorry.

I spoke to my H this morning about the situation. I asked him if he saw her last night (they are both members of a 12 step program). She lives a few hours from us, but was in town and called to tell him that she would be attending his regular meeting.

First I asked - When I asked you last night who was there, why didn't you tell me she was. He said, because I know it will stress you out and there's nothing to be stressed about.

Second I asked - Why did you deliberately delete everything from your mobile before you came up last night. He said because he knew that I would check and there was a call on there from her, the one telling him that she would be at the same meeting, and he didn't want it to bother me.

Third I stated (did not ask) - that keeping these things from me has caused me to be suspicious.

I told my H that I trust him completely but that I do NOT trust her. I told him she has issues with boundries and gave him the laundry list of reasons why. Stemming from saying she just needs to hear his voice, telling him about her belly dancing lessons, signing texts with xxx and standing way too close when she talks to him.

My H said that he understands where I'm coming from.He said that he wasn't thinking about it at the time, but he can definitely see that not saying something about her, not keeping her calls in the phone, is by far worse than me knowing it. He said that they do talk on occassion but that it's not regularly. He told me that I need to not worry about what's going to happen when we go back to our hometown. That he loves me, he's in this marriage with me and although I've hurt him, I'm the only one he wants to be with. He asked if I wanted him to completely cut off any contact with her. I told him that I've explained how I feel, he knows and he has to make whatever choice he thinks is best. I used what you folks have told me and I let him know that I want to protect our marriage. I told him that I know I'm the one that messed up and it should be him that's showing concern but that I want our marriage to be a happy, healthy one with no outside factors. I told him that I never want to have another conversation with someone that I wouldn't have completely out in the open with him. He told me that there are conversations that he needs to have that would not be healthy to have with me. A lot of them are irrational and would only be hurtful. But, he does not speak to the woman friend about these, he speaks to another friend of his. I was very upset during this exchange. We put the kids down for a nap and laid down together. He held me and told me how much he loves me. I told him that I'm afraid of losing him. He told me he would distance himself from her and that I have nothing to worry about.

So, for some, this may not be enough, but for me it is. I love my H and I'm choosing to trust and believe what he says. I've not got the negative feelings in my heart, or my stomach for that matter after talking with him.

Thank you all so much for continuing to listen and help support me. It means a great deal.

ILMH,

This is just my first impression...I may be wrong, but here are my initial thoughts:


Before I knew MB principles, I would have said the same thing you did. But now, I would have answered "Yes, please cut off ALL contact with her and if you accidentally have contact, please call me immediately."


I agree completely with this.


Why should he be able to judge what you can and cannot handle? This is a red flag for me, but I'm the BS so I may be wrong. If my WH or DH or FWH said that to me, I would most likely say that I want us to heal and I am working on making it safe for US to talk about anything.....that I need the practice....and if it seems to hurt me and I am not handling it well, that we should get help from MC IRL or via phone with MB....is that a possibility?


I don't want to second guess your judgement, ILMH,...well, on second thought, I guess I do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Take if for what it's worth....or don't! If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to be corrected.

Have you verified with this other friend that he is speaking to him. (You didn't say but it MUST be a him....right?)

When I first discovered my WH's betrayal, I nearly contacted some of my H's friends who had been betrayed without telling WH so I wouldn't hurt him. Although our MC at the time was not very helpful overall, he did say that we should NOT tell anyone who was not directly related to ending the A. So I did not....thank God.

I speak from the perspective of having endured 4 D-Days. I was flailing for any kind of help that your H might be doing now, too. And you have some signs that you can work on.

* He has demonstrated that he wants to judge what will hurt you and hide the evidence.

* He constantly tells you not to worry, that he can handle it.

* He seems to have no outlet for his pain that you are working on together.

* He is capable of independent behavior and sees nothing wrong with it. (IB is a lovebuster I seldom recognize.)

I am concerned for you, ILMH. Please do not blindly trust him after your 'talks'. Your pain of your betrayal of him may not allow you to process these signs so that you can protect your progress.

I hope I'm wrong. If so, I will be the first to admit it. If I am right, it will be a difficult setback to your recovery.

I share because I care. (Hey that rhymes!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Best wishes,

Ace

When you find out that he is having an affair, please do not be too proud to come back. We will be glad to help you at any time you want us to.

Please be careful. You are the only one who can know what you feel, but my DH said those EXACT words when I caught him talking with OW after the initial two year A (that was never fully disclosed). He "didn't want to bother me because there was nothing to be worried about. He knew it would bother me so he didn't tell me." If DH knows it will bother you...it's enough for him not to do it.

I will support you through whatever happens here. I hope that he is truthful and can distance himself from her. Just be careful. He may be gaslighting you.

Ace - As always, I appreciate your comments and your concern. You've been an incredible help throughout this process. Behaviors that my H is exhibiting now are no different than how he's been since I've known him. I truly do not believe that he is having an A.

Neak - I'm bothered that you basically insist that he is having one and that you hope I come back when I find it to be true. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? We all know I'm guilty, but I'm not willing to punish him as if he is, without knowing it for certain.

Hicktownmommy - My H is a truthful man. I believe what he tells me. Thank you for your comments, they are always welcome.

All - My H told me last night that he will distance himself from her. That he is committed to this marriage and will take whatever steps necessary in order to protect it and help us to work through this. I told him that I want him to feel comfortable talking to me about anything, whether he thinks I can handle it or not. I told him I will not run away. That has been his biggest fear, that I won't be able to handle us working through this.

I realize that there are a handful of things, that I willingly came here to ask all your opinions on. Please understand that he is one of the most upstanding and honest people I've known in all my life. I believe my H and I trust that he's going to do the right thing. I told him that he knew my feelings and now could do as he chose with that information, knowing in my heart that he would make the right choice. I will keep everyone updated as we progress.

Thank you again.

ILMH

This doesn't sound kosher to me. There are red flags here. I know you've said that's enough for you, but I hope you will continue to check on things. Keep your eyes open and please....never blindly trust ANYONE!

If it were me, I'd be snooping big time. And if his R with the woman continued to bother me (which it should) he should stop all contact with her. End of story.

Don't be like the majority of BSs here who believed our S when we shouldn't have.

I said the SAME thing.

I had the affair. He didn't. I cheated on him and lied to him. Now I'm suspicious of everything that HE does. Just because I've done something wrong, that doesn't mean that he's going to. He has agreed to distance himself from this other woman. He has agreed to leave his phone alone, now that I've told him that it's more concerning for him to try to alleviate my stress by it not being there.

He's not having an affair.

You can use your mistake to open discussions with him about maintaining boundaries in the marriage. Neither spouse should be confiding in friends of the opposite sex, nor having personal discussions, nor emailing/texting.

Let him know that you want a marriage that is BETTER than before, and want to protect it at all costs.

BELIEVER - THANK YOU!
This is exactly what my H and I discussed yesterday. He was in complete agreement with me, after I explained that it's because I wanted to protect our marriage. He is in this with me. He's not working against me. Thank you for posting this. He understands boundaries and he understands that I want us to be able to have all conversations with each other. At the same time, I have to understand that there are times that he's going to need to speak to someone other than me. I can't be his sole source of recovery, that wouldn't be fair.

Thank you Believer.

All the best to you and your husband.

Thank you, Neak. I know you've been around a long time, and I can fully appreciate your knowledge and your experience. Please don't take my words as being defensive. Thank you again.

ILMH

Please don't take my words as an attack. I realize you are the WS. It is a fact that BSs are very vulnerable. Don't let your guilt blind you....that's all I'm going to say.

Hope everything works out.

Thank you, MicheleG. I'm trying not to do that, which is why I brought it up to him for discussion. I don't want to seem ungrateful to you all, it's quite the contrary. I just want to have an open & honest relationship with my H. I want to trust him and I have to have faith that he's being honest with me. I told him my concerns, I told him my fears and what I'm uncomfortable with and he's chosen to make the right decisions. Leave his cell phone alone, no more deletions, tell me when she's called and distance himself from her as she has obvious boundary issues. I need to trust him. We went into this marriage assuming that we'd be able to trust one another. I screwed up (yes, I know it's far worse than that) but he didn't. I don't want to punish him for something, that after talking to him, I don't believe he's done.

Thank you again.

Hi ILMH,

Believer gave you a great focus:


Protection.

Pre-emptive strike.

What if.......

.....you wrote a pre-NC letter?

Say something like, "Thank you for being a willing listener, but it will hurt both of us to continue to vent to one another. I love my wife and I will not do anything to jeopardize our recovery."

"I understand your pain, but I am committed to my marriage and I will not reply to any of your calls or emails or texts so please do not send them."

Whatdayathink?

Just a thought....(actually a few.)

AND....you can judge from his reaction to this idea as to where he's coming from. If he's eager, you'll know you were right. If he hesitates, there may be more.

Best wishes to you...I hope, I hope, I hope I was wrong in my previous post! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Ace

Ace,
You know how much I value your opinions and your suggestions... I think very highly of you and the Mr. However, I have to say that I am THRILLED to tell you that in your first post, you were wrong. My H has told me that he is willing to do anything that will protect our marriage from any future problems. He has said there will be NC here or when we go back to our hometown for a visit. My H is the most amazing man I know. I'll have to remember to tell him on a daily basis. In case I've not mentioned before, thank you for all that you are and all that you continue to be. It's a big deal.

See if he will post here. He should NOT be discussing personal things with anyone of the opposite sex.

well, I have a different slant on this...what a surprise huh?
Her H has NOT had an affair. He is, according to her, the most honest person she has ever met.
I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. If he has been able to maintain relationships with boundaries in place...I don't think it is her place to suggest that he can't maintain friendships or discuss personal matters with members of the opposite sex. I think the scope of those conversations needs to be appropriate...but SHE had the affair...and much mike any "criminal" she has a problem trusting others...because she knows what she was capable of.
I believe there are people out there that would never have an affair under any circumstances. Perhaps her H is one of them. But his actions do not need to be curtailed because his wife couldn't maintain proper boundaries.
Come back and tell me he stepped over those boundaries...that he clouded the lines between friends and affair partners...and I will be right there with all of you.
Right now though, he has not shown himself to be untrustworthy.

Someone on here mentioned there is no reason to delete texts and such...I do it at least twice a week. I like to keep my inbox free. That does not mean he is being inappropriate.

ILMH,

Because you had the A, I understand why you feel you should trust your H and not assume he is in an affair, the truth may be that right now he is not...BUT the signs are there that this situation could turn into something that could become one. Most of us have heard the same things from spouses in the past.

My ex-wh told me "I have everything under control" and he also alluded to distancing himself from the A partner also, after I suspected that something was going on. You say that the woman texting your H has no boundaries? well, the truth is your H's boundaries need to be firmed up as well..if a woman is texting him about her personal problems and signing it with "xxx" which means hugs and kisses? or some variation of that, that in itself is an encroach of your marital boundaries....All that anyone here is suggesting is that you keep your eyes open. Half of what you posted about your conversation with your H is something everyone here has heard at one time or another.

No one is telling you he is definitely in an A, just be careful or it could definitely end up that way. There are warning signs whenever a woman is confiding in a married man..... Your instincts were telling you that something was off and I don't think you should discount that just because you were the one that had the A...what you don't want is for your husband to have one as well..the people here are just trying to help you avoid the same pitfalls we've all experienced.

If your husband is feeling vulnerable, or feeling like he needs someone to talk to and another woman is attempting to meet his needs for conversation, that woman should be told that it is inappropriate to accept communication from her, in no uncertain terms she should know that their "friendship" has to end...for the sake of your marriage...distancing himself from her is really not good enough, especially if her contact with him makes you uncomfortable...the contact should END.

Good luck to you and your H. I sincerely hope everyone is wrong about this..the danger signs were just so apparent IMHO.

ILMH,

FWIW, I, as a newly betrayed BS, was very vulnerable to have an affair of my own. If fact, if someone that I was in the least bit attracted to had come along in those eary days before I found MB, I probably would have.

It is easy for me to look back now and see what a horrible mistake that would have been. But in the pain of my own misery back then, I think I would have done just about anything to try and lessen it. Of course, having an affair of my own wouldn't have solved anything, but people who are suffering whether very vocally or in silence will do things that are very out of character for them.

I'm not suggesting that this is what is happening, but merely pointing out the danger in believing that your BH is not capable of having an affair.

I believe that we all are, given the right circumstances.

Who

You said: "He has agreed to leave his phone alone, now that I've told him that it's more concerning for him to try to alleviate my stress by it not being there."

Just wanted to point out that there are other ways of communiticating with the OW then with his cell phone, especially now that he knows you are looking at it. There's his office phone that you can't track. I found a calling card in my H's wallet when he has a cell phone, so why would he need a calling card... So if he wants to talk to her behind your back, he will find another way.

You said: "My H has told me that he is willing to do anything that will protect our marriage from any future problems."

If he's willing to do anything, then why does he say he's going to 'distance himself from her' instead of saying he'll have NC if he knows how uncomfortable it makes you feel?

You don't need to be suspcious of every one of his actions, but I think people are just saying, don't be blind to them either.

I wish you the best