There are many schools of thought on how to cope with infidelity. What made you choose this particular forum as your "discussion home"?

For me, it was the tough, straight-shooting approach of the Harleys both in their books and in the online articles, and of many of their students who posted on these forums. I much prefer the accountability of "owning your own garbage" than the "warm and fuzzy" approach.

How did you get here? Was it by accident, or chosen after the "shop and compare" approach?

Do you participate in other marriage forums as well, or is this it for you?

keepitreal, I am becoming a fan of yours. I found MB after learning of my H's OW becoming pg with his child. I am thankful to God for directing me here. Pepperband, Melodylane, Orchid, Believer, Foreverhers, RIF, Ark and many others saved my sanity. I am so thankful for the straight forward posts and the occasional 2x4's I received. I have learned and grown so much being a part of this community. It saddens me to see it become just another place for the PC thought police to tell us what we can and cannot say and for the coddlers of evil to thrive.

I found a link to this site after a google search.

I instantly knew I had found gold.

It thankfully wasn't like any of the other sites. Thank God for that.

I agree completely. It is sad, and a little sickening also, that the place that saved our M just a few months ago has been reduced to a haven for those that would knowingly choose wrong over right, fully aware of the consequences. Thank God I came when I did. This "new and improved" environment certainly would not have turned me around!

If it hadn't been for straight-shooting posters like Mrs. and Mr. Wondering, BigKahuna, TYK, mopey, RIF, MelodyLane and others, I would have never been inclined to take a hard look at myself and change my entitled, selfish ways. Instead, it would have led us down the path of coddling my ignorance, sympathizing with my treachery and, ultimately...DIVORCE. A concept over which I'm sure those that feel "comfortable" here now are frothing at the mouth. After all, if their married affair partners end up divorced, evil prevails.

And though all the winds of doctrine were let loose to play upon the earth, so Truth be in the field, we do injuriously, by licensing and prohibiting, to misdoubt her strength. Let her and Falsehood grapple; who ever knew Truth put to the worse, in a free and open encounter?

Well said, LaLa!

My pastor began explaining the concepts to me beginning with the Love Bank without ever mentioning Dr Harley. I did a Google search on Love Bank and found this place.

The first thing I saw was a banner at the side of the page that would flash quotes that were the same things I was hearing from my wife...

Within the first few hours of reading, I realized just how typical her affair was and that she was following the WW script. I figured that if she was saying and doing the same things as every other WS, maybe the same things that ended those affairs would work in our case.

Yep. It pretty much went according to the plan...

Mark

Thank you for your kind words; the respect is mutual.

I appreciate being able to hear what brought each of you here. It is cheering to read your posts and to be assured that the MB spirit is still alive and well!

I looked up books on infidelity on Amazon and found Dr. Harley's books had the most positive reviews. So I bought 2. And in the books it has the MB website addy. And it's the best site. It's helped me immeasurably.

I wanted to end my wife's affair, not cope with it better.
I wanted to have my wife change her errant behaviour not "learn to accept her reality"
I wanted my kids to have a stable loving family, not effective co-parenting
I wanted to learn the error of my marital ways not be accepted for them
In short I wanted a better marriage and life, not learn to accept a bad one.

I found no other site that comes CLOSE to the old MB boards that shoots from the hip and layed out a direct route to a righteous marriage.

Thats why I came here, and also why I very rarely visit any more.

I came here after our MC recommended we read HN/HN. I saw the reference to the website in the book.

BTW, our MC was oblivious to H's continued stonewalling and actually showed me a list of "abusive behavior" warnings, which listed stuff like "checking up on spouse" "needing to know where they are" "limiting their choices of "friends"" etc. He was sympathetic to WH until WH pulled the stonewalling a third time...then MC said to leave him.

After my H had an EA, I was struggling to keep it together. Because I am a stay at home mom, I have a lot of time to think. This quickly became my enemy. So, I did a search online and found a marriage forum. I posted my story (on another board) and got ripped to shreads and lambasted for putting the blame on the wrong person. These women played hockey with my heart and brought me to a place so low I was in a state of shock. Thankfully, a person from here was doing a little looking around and saw the injustice of what they were doing. She sent me a private messege and sent me here. Our insurance changed in January and we are no longer able to have any counseling paid for so this has been my counseling. I've 'met' a few people I really bonded with and it has been a life and mind saver. I will forever be appreciative to SAUMICO>
thanks.

I was moderating a weight loss board for slim fast believe it or not! We used to talk about other things like relationships, etc, and how the stress and such would trigger some people to comfort themselves with food. Well, that talk went further to discuss some of the peoples issues they had in their marriages, including me. One of the members, who was only a member as short while, almost like she was only there to tell me about this place, a little "angel" emailed me and told me she knew someone who had been on this site called "marriage builders" and that is how I got here. Been here off and on ever since. 3 years now.

mlhb

Exactly.

The "new and improved" environment around here is a direct reflection of some of the new mods and their lack of objectivity that followed them into their new role.

Sadly, this is not the place it was a few years ago. When the likes of our Texas friend and other respected vets have all but left this board to the troll defenders and quasi recovered...well...something is wrong.

BTW, it was straight talkers like BobP, Plank, Mel, Pep and a few others that were a huge help to me early on....what would I find today?

Strangely enough my MIL gave me the book surviving an affair. It was an eye opener! I felt like all the crap I was living was right there in a book, I wasn't alone in it. I read all the harley books and worked with Steve. I loved Steve he knew what I would be feeling before I did.

Problem, my WH refused to continue with it, felt like it was all too simplified. Basically he didn't like being told what to do. And started up his A again so we went through false recovery.

Like they say you can only control yourself. Our my favorite saying "you can't teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig"

So I had to let go and let g@d...go to plan B. Realize that since MA has no legal sep. have to go to plan D to enforce custody boundaries and finances.

Even though all friends and family support me they don't understand plan B....but it saved my sanity. Doesn't aways fix it but helps BS from going insane or having a breakdown.

I don't usually post to the Infidelity forum but the title of your thread caught my eye in the 'latest posts' section.

I was 6 months into a separation (I initiated)and had been hanging out and posting heavily on a divorce forum for 9 months. The forum was wonderfully supportive but, understandably, not pro-marriage. The majority of people on the forum had spouses who had been involved in affairs. There was never any talk of 'recovering' from the affairs. Rather the prevailing feeling was 'once a cheater, always a cheater' so cut your losses and run. Someone (to whom I'll be forever grateful) mentioned this site and out of curosity I came over here and was very surprised.

Although, infidelity was not a part of the breakdown of my marriage - everything Dr. Harley says is dead-on. The love busters, DJ, love banks, withdrawal, time together. I saw immediately that these were all huge issues in my failing marriage and that they could be fixed. That was when I approached my stbx husband and told him I was interested in trying again. Here we are...4 months later and after a lot of MC, listening to and watching the MB CDs and DVD, we are moving back into together and selling my house! Things are not perfect but I do feel like MB gave me a lot of hope.

For all you 'old-timers' out there. I'm new, so I can't speak to the previous atmosphere of the forum but just having people post who have been here for years is very beneficial to us newbies. There's a lot of wisdom on these forums from those who have BTDT. Thanks for taking the time to help others.

When I was drowning in misery thanks to H and his ILYBINILWY speech I tried different sites to figure out what had happened to my M while I wasn't looking. My questions were not being answered and I had no idea which direction to turn.

Then out of the blue, a friend called me at work and suggested I should visit this site. She has never been married but she told me she monitors this site regularly and someday if she ever did get married, she knew she'd get lots of help here. By this time, I had already discovered H's A on my own, but when I explored here, I realized I might have saved myself 3 months of agony. The fog speech and the behavior were typical of an A.

Now we are in MC and I am still getting more answers here than at those meetings. When she tells me to forget the A and move on..I know from here that I am normal when I can't just move on and forget. It is a slow process that takes time, not ignorance.

Hey Fiori!
Glad to see you and FWH are doing better!

For me I used to visit the marriage board Fiori is talking about. It is a general marriage board, not a support board. I started out on the SAHM board on the same site and then found the marriage board. Then about a year ago a good friend of ours who lives out of state e-mailed us (DH and I) telling us her husband (who we are also close to) had an affair. I really couldn't be there for her so I did a google search of christian marriage forums and this site came up. I checked it out and was hooked. I told her about it but she never came here.... I never left! I am learning a lot about marriage and I am using it in my own marriage. I have down loaded the questionairs so I can print them out for DH and I to take. I know most people come here when there is an Affair but I am here to say it does help every marriage. I tell my married GF's they should check it out.

A few years ago, my SIL and her H got a divorce. During the process, their MC had them read HNHN. My BIL gave me the book to read, and told me that while it didn't save his marriage, perhaps it would help me avoid the same trouble.

After reading it, I saw the conditions that led to my parent's divorce. I thought that it was a good idea to address any issues in my M before it got to that point.

The book mentioned the website. The website was not quite what I had envisioned, but there is a lot of good information here.

Ahhhh shoot. . .

Well, those who know me as Larry178 will attest that I am not always careful with what I say

I haven't been here much of late simply because I have reached a plateau in marriage that appears to be as good as it is going to get. My wife dotes on me, or at least gives every appearance of so doing. I also "feel" that she has a reserve somewhere she isn't taping for any reason, preferring to simply believe in what we have and what we do and give it her all.

And I have a reserve as well. Without question, her infidelity and betrayal was the most awful experience of my life. So too was with whom she choose to lose her mind and morals with. That jerk is still lurking in my brain like a festering maggot. Frankly, the whole dern thing stills scares the tee wad diddly out of me.

I spent most of my beginning time on the recovery forum. GQII seemed to be faster and more combative that I could handle at least at the time. I needed the more reflective atmosphere found on recovery. That was then and this is now. Everyone is an individual. I can see clearly that many benefit from GQII that were lost on Recovery. And somewhere I lost my fear and for a time posted regularily here.

I found this site somehow. I don't remember exactly. And this site saved my life and sanity, period. I discovered that I wasn't a pathetic loser in the game of life, just the victim of a couple of people who lost their minds through PEA poisoning, bad judgement, failure to protect their weaknesses; all while destroying relationships that will never be the same again.

Among the many who have been active over the years on this site helping others, Bob Pure stands out, for me, for any number of reasons, making him, for me, one who triggers thought process that help me. Yes I can name at least a dozen more, some of whom are no longer active and all who have helped me through this most difficult time. (Hi Mel, Pep, Plank et al)

So when Bob says he is not real pleased (paraphrasing) some of the stuff going on currently, I have to pay attention. So should the Harleys and the moderators. Too many, too often, have been helped here for that purpose and task to be watered down by anything.

Clearly, Harley principals are the be all and end all of this site and the reason for its success. Harley principals as explained to me in the course of my search in the wilderness, is why I am not a bitter, bonkers bloke sleeping under a bridge.

To resolve some lingering issues, I am in counseling with a great counselor who believes in the discoveries that Harley made and the methods Harley teaches. In fact, he said it was time for him to take a look around here to see how things are going. I know of at least one other seriously good counselor who hung around here for a time; apparently an effort for him to stay centered.

Challenge: What the heck is wrong, if anything, and how can it be fixed?

Larry

Four days after D-Day I typed the words, "I want to save my marriage" into the Yahoo search engine. Marriage Builders was the first site that came up. Been here ever since. Never even bothered with any other sites.

Oddly enough, I have tried again to have MB come up with that same search and it NEVER does. I believe it was Divine Intervention.

I am one of the newbies but I guess I don't understand what people are talking about when they say the place has changed. It still seems very pro-marriage to me, almost a year later. I have said more than once that without this forum I am SURE I would have been headed for divorce. I saw hope here. I knew 20 years ago that traditional marriage counseling is TOTALLY USELESS. My FWH and I had 6 months of it and while there was SOME benefit, it is NOT what has saved our marriage.

That said though, I will say that there is one thing here that bothers me. It is the idea that IF you work the plans properly that your marriage will work. I think this is a subtle undercurrent. I know that there are many who say that MB is successful if you have changed yourself, etc. I don't totally disagree. After all, you only have control of yourself. BUT the point of MB priciples does not seem to be to improve our independent selves. The concept of GIVING without expecting anything in return(except in Plan A)seems to be completely opposite of what the Harleys teach about the Giver and the Taker. It is the SUREST way to build resentment in a marriage.I have seen SO many posters here suggest that you are supposed to meet your spouse's needs WITHOUT expectation of having your OWN NEEDS met. That is NOT the way I read ANY of the MB books.

The way I understand it is that *ultimately* a MARRIAGE will only work if TWO people do the work. I am not talking about the early stages after an A, when the BS clearly has to do the heavy lifting. I am talking about after an A is ended or when there has NOT been an A. If both people do not jump on board the MB train, the desired results are NOT going to be achieved.

I have been reluctant to post my own story(except in bits and pieces) for this very reason. I have found that my FWH basically gives lip service to most of MB priciples. I know he is NOT in an A, but he still has a bit of a WS mentality. HE DOESN'T think so, but that's what got him into trouble in the first place. He has a tendency to be controlling and verbally abusive. We HAVE to work on those issues first. POJA and PORH feel like Love Busters to him no matter what I do or how I behave. Him finally being able to admit some of this is how we are seeing a LITTLE progress. I am afraid of the response if I post my whole story.

There is so much more to say but I am at work and it has literally taken me 2 hours to get THIS written so I will leave at this. Again, I will say that MB has SAVED me and I hope that the vets will keep posting.

WH2LE

I found out my H was having an affair. He actually minimized to "a few innapropriate e-mail exchanges". Even with that much information, I was hurting and confused and never heard of "emotional affair" before.

Late one night, after a month of this disturbing me, I googled "how to survive an affair" and I found this site. I know God directed me here. He gave me exactly what to google and MB was the first thing that popped up. I was literally thrilled when I saw the discussion forum. It was like a salve for my heart.

I read all the articles as fast and as furiously as I could. I thought to myself, "this stuff makes such much sense I cannot believe that after all this time, I am finally hearing about it". Like BK said, I thought I had found gold, and I did.

The people in these forums gave me support and 2 x 4s when I needed them. Some of the posters I believe were instruments of God, and some I believe were/are working for the other side.

Mel and Believer, and a few others posted to me on Christmas Eve when things were falling apart. I just cannot even describe the valuable support I have gotten from here for the last 1 1/2 years. Other people just don't understand the dynamics of affairs and how they're so ordinary. It truly was a gift.

After months and months of discoveries, learning my H was a serial adulterer, this site kept me sane. The people here helped me figure stuff out, when I could no longer trust my own judgement from all the past gaslighting.

And believe it or not, my marriage might still be saved, and I owe it all to MB and these forums.

I also have gotten the most from posters who tell it like it is, without coddling. The coddling confused me, especially when the foggy waywards were being coddled. I have to admit it wasn't easy being one of the ones to to have the courage to tell it like it is, but sometimes, some people, need a little bit more of a wake up call. But diversity is where it's at and I liked the variety. I thought the board started going downhill when people started telling people how to post.

And when an onslaught of trolling started months back, I could literally feel evil when I read those posts. I felt like we were in a spiritual battle. It's obvious I am not the only one that noticed it. I think this thread was God inspired. Thanks Keep it Real.

I know I rambled but I owe a lot to the straight shooters on this site, like Medc, TST, Mel, Pep, the Wonderings, and now one of my favorite peeps, LaLa who is no longer foggy. There are many more like Meremortal, Princess Meggy and others.

I'll close with this scripture that I read last night......

Proverbs 28; vs 23

He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.

Thanks to all who had the courage.

Sincerely.

It's so heartwarming to see so many who feel that God brought them here. I feel the same way, and that's why I feel so protective of this place. I want it to remain a place where God is felt.

Google brought me here, about a month or so after my D-Day. I spent a lot of time going through the site before joining the forum and posting my first question. The concepts covered in the site seemed to make a lot of sense to me, and allowed me to view my M, my FWW and her A in a different light, and also offered hope that it was possible to recover our M from an A.

I'm very grateful for all the advice that I've received from all of those that are further along this Recovery path than I am, and also from those that aren't, as they helped me to see my situation from different perspectives.

Funnily enough, I don't think I've ever actually shared my full story here, so I might be sort of the odd one out. Maybe I should start a MiM's Heartbreak & Recovery Thread...

I spent the day after D-Day googling Emotional Affairs, Internet Affairs, anything I could think of. Had to wade through lots of garbage about "how to have one", and eventually wound up here.

Thank God for Google.....

Amen Chai.

WH2LE...I wanted to address some of the things you were questioning, because they are very legitimate concerns...

<<And mopers...thanks, honey! You are da best!>>

The very things you are questioning about Dr. Harley methods are the things that make it counter-intuitive, which is stated many times in his articles. When many would say "kick dat guy/gal to the curb!" the Harley method actually takes a completely different approach, with the idea that the wayward mindset is TEMPORARY.

Plan A has a time-frame on it, and the Harleys have just reduced it to 6-8 weeks for women and no more than six months for men...and they HIGHLY RECOMMEND ADs while in Plan A and B because they are so counter-intuitive and difficult. No one wants to better themselves and meet all their WS's ENs when they are being treated so poorly. And many times outsiders to this method completely misunderstand and disapprove. That is why this board is so very important. It offers those that have very little outside support the understanding and strength that is needed to make it through these steps. It is also the reason that "tough love" or 2x4s are needed sometimes, even for the BSs, because every instinct cries out that Plan A is UNJUST...

The key is that the BS has discovered an A and has made a DECISION to try and fix the M. Plan D is always an option, but as long as the BS CHOOSES to work on the M, the Harley method is, bar none, the best possible PLAN to do so.

Dr. Harley has spent many, many years developing these plans, which many believe are divinely inspired. He stresses that his plans are not any type of guarantee, but based on his experience, they offer the BEST CHANCE for reconciliation beyond just "staying together." His full plan inspires couples to fall back into romantic, fulfilling love with each other...even after the tragedy of infidelity, which he says is equivalent to rape or the death of a spouse or child.

I hope this helps it all make more sense...while the nuances of each sitch are different, the MB road is very narrow. I believe when implemented correctly, people have a MUCH better chance of not only surviving and A, but actually becoming better people and having a more fulfilling M...not BECAUSE of the A, rather in SPITE of it.

I first found this place in 2001, if I recall correctly. I was very unhappy in my marriage. Unfortunately, I didn't stick around and ended up committing adultery. I came back after I realized what a mess I had made and got some sound advice from wonderful people. I lost my password and as I no longer had the email address I signed up with, I was unable to get my username back.

I joined again last year when my husband decided he no longer wanted to be married. (I have discovered I deleted most of my posts..shame on me). Anyway, I once again got some great advice. Though my husband didn't have an affair, I implemented Plan A, against all advice of those in my real life and he and I have been back together since August of last year. We are better than we have ever been in 19 years of marriage.

I don't post often, but I still come and read the board, as well as freshen up on the articles.

Great post LaLa.

See, I told ya she was no longer foggy.

I agree 100%.

When I think of the assets on this board, I would be remiss to not include the likes of LaLa, TST and of course...Mrs W. All three of them are FWS...and people I would be proud to call friends. They have helped educate me about the ability of some waywards spouses to rise above their sin.

I totally agree. THEY give me hope.

I had been married for 17 years, and always had problems. Someone on my sewingmamas site mentioned this site and it has saved my marriage. We have just celebrated our 18th anniversary; things are not perfect but are certainly getting there.

Our marriage was plagued with EAs on both sides, I now know that I actually love my husband, something I had never admitted to myself and never showed. It is such a relief to express love with no expectations.

I read the pregnancy and child thread, I was just so intrigued. The spouses there were able to see beyond the child/children and continue with their marriage. Then after 16 years my husband's son (from a previous relationship) came back into our life. His mother refused to confirm paternity and took off with him, the last time we saw him was when he was 2. We still are not sure if my husband is his father, but because of what I learnt here I was able to embrace and welcome this young man into our family. Thank you Marriage Builders.

Without his site I would be divorced.
Enough said
Thank You MB

MEDC and mopey...thank you so much for those kind words. They mean more to me than you know.

Sadly, my beloved dog of nine years must be put to sleep after an unexpected, swift bout with cancer. Those words really helped my heart tonight...it is breaking...

Much love!!!!

[quote]
I wanted to end my wife's affair, not cope with it better.
I wanted to have my wife change her errant behaviour not "learn to accept her reality"
I wanted my kids to have a stable loving family, not effective co-parenting
I wanted to learn the error of my marital ways not be accepted for them
In short I wanted a better marriage and life, not learn to accept a bad one.

I found no other site that comes CLOSE to the old MB boards that shoots from the hip and layed out a direct route to a righteous marriage.

Thats why I came here, and also why I very rarely visit any more.
{/quote]

I echo what Mr. Pure said.

I found MB back in 2003 after my wife then admitted to a PA. Sadly, I/we did not spend the time here to really recover and rather swept it under the rug. Lo and behold I found myself again here 3 years later, this time heading down a path of D due to my wife's denial of everything. This time I took the time to educate myself and got a ton of support from so many here who now unfortunately do not post any longer. Even though my marriage was not recovered, I was.

The song What Have We Become by DCTalk sums it up:

What have we become?
A self indulgent people
What have we become?
Tell me where are the righteous ones?
What have we become?
In a world degenerating
What have we become?

Desperate need brought me here. While I wish I'd never had to seek this place, I will be forever grateful that it was here to be found.

I searched infidelity on the internet for months before I finally found this place and new immediately upon perusing the material that MB was different and USEFUL. DAYS after finding MB my situation started to change.

LaLA,
I am so sorry about your pet. I am a dog lover too, and I have had to put a few down too. It is hard. Thinking of you,
Rock

Oh LaLa, I am SO, SO, sorry! I have a pet that I love with all my heart, and when he goes, I'll be crushed, just like you. I'm so sorry. He had a good family.

{{{{Lala and family}}}}}

I am so sorry to hear about your dog. I have three labs and have had to put two dogs down in the past. Even after years have passed, I still miss them....they truly become members of our family.

I am sorry for your pain over this.

Thanks Rocky and mopey!

And sorry to all for the slight T/J!

MEDC...we cross-posted and I just saw your reply...thank you very much...he IS a member of our family. This house will be very strange and empty without him here...

I posted on a couple of infidelity boards before finding MB. They were of the vent and support variety - but nothing with a PLAN for saving my marriage.

My bout with infidelity was very confusing for me. At first, I wasn't even sure what my DH was doing WAS infidelity. I was feeling so betrayed, so scared, so unsure of how to even breathe much less hold my marriage together.

I read everything I could get my hands on. I called 4 local licensed family therapists who advertised as being "pro-marriage" or Christian. The first appointment I could get with any one of them was two weeks away! I was dying inside and couldn't find anyone to talk to, to ask advice of.

Then I searched using the terms marriage, save, infidelity and found MB. It saved my sanity. The members here helped me undertsand that what I was feeling was real, it wasn't all in my head. The articles, the books and the forum participants gave me a plan to save my marriage. I was no longer powerless!

So thank you. All of you.

LaLa,

I in NO WAY question the wisdom of the MB methods. I have actually said many times that the beauty of their plans are that they ARE counter-intitive. Also, I hope that there is NO misunderstanding that what I also said is that without MB I am CERTAIN that I would now be divorced. I believe indeed that MB is Divinely Inspired.

My comments were directed only to the fact that I believe there are some POSTERS who are very insistent that if you end up in a bad way that it must be because you didn't follow the plans correctly. As I said before, I believe this is a subtle undercurrent. I do not believe it has ANYTHING to do with the wisdom of the principles. I am not complaining. I read these boards daily and have for almost a year. I finally started posting in January. I am merely commenting.

And I will tell you that my situation regarding some of this IS a little different. My husband's issues and his A did NOT occur because he his ENs were not being met. He says this also. In his own words, he was selfish and entitled(I am condensing this). In fact, I did Plan A during the A without realizing it. When I found the MB books(right after D-Day) I knew I had found the Holy Grail of Marriage Advice. But what a struggle. Yes, I KNOW it's a struggle. BUT, this was different in mighty ways. And I knew it was different because of what I read on these boards. Without that SINGLE piece of information I don't think I would have been able to make it. I needed to see what was working for others to see what was NOT working for us.

My H is Controlling and Verbally Abusive. He was this way before the A and continued after. Before the A I felt I could handle it. After the A, not so much. No matter what I said, how I approached it, what I did, what tone of voice, what facial expression, EVERYTHING I asked was a Selfish Demand, EVERY different opinion was a Disrespectful Judgement, EVERY word an Angry Outburst. All my life I have been a person who ASSUMES that if I am misunderstood, that it is MY fault because I have not said something properly. I have absolutely NO problem with rephrasing or apologizing if I have inadvertently offended, etc. But NONE of this was good enough for my H. he felt that he did not have to answer to me for ANYTHING. He did not believe in PORH and POJA was a joke. If he did not get HIS way, he told me that I was love-busting and that he did not believe he should have to negotiate. I can NOT exaggerate this. It was THAT bad. And this was POST-A, not just before.

So, I found that while I could work the principles, my H was NOT going to. He was not interested in figuring out his ENs or in meeting mine and he felt that any problem with Love Busters was mine and mine alone. And even though it was great that I was improving, the ultimate goal was the salvation of our marriage. I was confused and frustrated and ready to throw in the towel. I am well aware that the MB road is narrow and my H was totally unwilling to walk it with me. The MC we did see told me flat out that my H was not able to change. That his life experiences(of which there are many) had left him so damaged that change was not possible. THAT was the last time we saw her.

My H was unwilling to talk to the Harley's and I was fearful that it would be waste because my H made it clear that he was not going to do anything they suggested anyway. And something in my gut told me there was more going on here. My H did not want to throw away the marriage and KNEW there was something bizarre about his responses to me but just could not seem to help it or control it.

I stared searching for my more info about my H's personality and struck gold AGAIN when I found the Patricia Evans books. She described my H absolutely to a T and explained EVERY problem that we have had in our M. Over the last few months, we have been slowly working our way through her books. He recognized himself almost immediately. After I caught him in a huge lie(not A related) I told him I was through unless he agreed to talk to the Harleys or to Patricia Evans. He agreed to Patricia. He talked to her 3 weeks ago and I can honestly say that there has been change since then. Maybe it will last, maybe not. But NOW, he SEES the wisdom of MB. And even if it is difficult to get it started he is WILLING to give it a try. Again, I am condensing, but for the first time in many, many, many months I have a deep. genuine hope. I have hope that we can have a real MB marriage.

My point in this ridiculously long defense of myself is that SOMETIMES there ARE other issues that must be addressed. Not always, maybe not often, but sometimes there really ARE. Sometimes there are FOO issues that can NOT be ignored in order for a marriage to work today. I was unwilling to throw away a marriage to a man I love with all my heart and who I believe loves me despite his behaviors WITHOUT looking at all the issues. AS A RULE, I do not believe in dragging all this cr** up from childhood etc.,but there was no choice here if WE were going to survive.

I am sorry if there was any misunderstanding. I completely understand the wisdom of MB.

Blessings,
WH2LE

WK

Can I ask you something? You say that your H had entitlement issues, truth telling issues and than a PA. SOunds like he was tough to live with.

After youre DD, and a bit of time to process the hideousness, did you still LOVE him? Did you want to still be MARRIED to him? And if so, WHY? What was it about him or your marriage that made you want to stay? I mean, he sounded TOUGH BEFORE the A. Why didn't the A seal his fate?

Thank you for any insight. I really appreciate it.

Wow, you've had a rough ride from the beginning. I absolutely agree with you. If there are other serious issues at play beforehand and THEN an affair is piled on top of that, recovery is going to be 1/2 assed at best unless those original issues are dealt with, especially abuse. I think Dr. Harley even says if there are addictions and so forth, that MB will not usually be successful.

Perhaps your husband's unwillingness to work on recovery was the catalyst that you needed. Enough was enough. I'm so glad you found the resources that you need and I pray that your husband recovers completely from his issues so that your marriage can begin anew the way it was intended to be.

Hugs to you.

Now to answer the original question, what brought me to MB?

We were in recovery but it was a lonesome path. I thought I was going CRAZY because I was consistently "triggered" and would feel like I was bursting at the seams to SPEAK MY TRUTH. Yikes! I learned that speaking my truth (in the WAY I was doing it) was LBing all over the place. I was actually HARMING our recovery.

I not only learned that the ups and downs were normal but I learned how to implement ways to give us a healthier marriage.

My FWH has commented several times that he would like to post but it seems like time is never there for him with school and work, maybe someday.

MB was a God-send for me and our marriage. I'm no longer the psycho BS who just couldn't let go of the past. LOL

Now it's a place where I hopefully can offer a tidbit or two to others to help lessen their pain.

Sorry WH2LE...I was not trying to put you into "defensive" mode at ALL! I just thought your post has legitimate questions about MB, and I didn't mean to insinuate that you didn't understand them...

And actually, my BH put up with much of the same crap from me as you did from your WH. It took a LOT to turn me around...a series of events, actually, that led up to the night the vets gave me a <ahem> LESSON IN HUMILITY...lol. He said the same thing- (he knew my anger came from my father) that he could dismiss my AOs and DJs before the A, because he did not internalize it...knew what "box" to put it in, so to speak! But, after the A, he was having NO MO' of my sh!tty attitude! So, when he threatened a D, and I knew he was serious, I realized I had better either straighten up and fly right (as my mama always said) or get my butt kicked to the curb and have my boys' lives torn apart!

So, once again...sorry if you felt I was offensive in some way...it wasn't intentional at all.

Oh Lala,

No problem at all!!!!! MB has just meant SOOOOOO much to me that I did not want ANYONE to think that I was not 100% on board with the principles. I tend to worry when I put things in print because it is so easy to misinterpret without facial expression or tone of voice.

LaLa, your posts in particular have meant a great deal to me and have given me hope. I thank you for your courage. It has blessed me.

Thank you especially for this:
"He said the same thing- (he knew my anger came from my father)that he could dismiss my AOs and DJs before the A, because he did not internalize it...knew what "box" to put it in, so to speak!"

That is EXACTLY it!!!! Although I can't say it didn't bother me.

Gabagool, I want to answer your question but think I may start a new thread so as not to TJ this one. It's a complicated story(just like ALL of them,lol).

I have been reluctant to start a thread because I don't have too much time to post, CAN'T type and am a little afraid. But sometimes I would like advice. So...

Blessings to all,
WH2LE

What brought me to Marriage Builders? A marriage counselor at our church. I was somewhat SHOCKED at what he told me about MB and I just had to come here and check it for myself. I LAUGHED OUT LOUD when he listed "sexual fulfillment" as an emotional need. I had never heard a man actually ADMIT such shallowness. I think I actually GAGGED!

When I arrived, I found it all very, very confusing. A very patient lady named Zorweb cleared up much for me. She was a straight talker and that is what I needed most.

I have to admit that my radical feminist upbringing did not prepare me to hear many things at first. Eventually, I thought things through and they started making sense. And what an AMAZING difference they made in my marriage when I put those things into practice!

My cute and handsome DH and I have been married EIGHT YEARS today and we adore each other 10X more today than we did when we married. We are SOUL MATES.

Happy anniversary to Mr. and Mrs. Lane!

Ditto, TOTALLY!

I found MB through a search on "children from affairs". MB was the ONLY site that actually had advice on the subject. I'd been to a couple of other sites by then, and all they consisted of was BW and OW yammering at one another...essentially, they were WMM b**** fests from both sides.

I posted on the PG forum exclusively at first as I was scared to death to come to this board and "spill". I was so afraid that everyone would tell me to just leave the hairy ape and be well done with him.

Yes, some did tell me to leave, but EVERYONE told me to make a plan.

Idiot me thought our situation was "different" because of the OCs.

(snort)

Once I realized the only special-ness of this situation was the short-bus kind of specialness that my dearest was carrying on with, I got my bootay in gear.

It was still a long row to hoe, so to speak, but REALLY and truly, the turnabout came when I stopped being so fraking stubborn and FOLLOWED a plan!

Never, ever, underestimate the power of a good plan.

(please excuse any typos, my keyboard seems to be dropping letters)

Hey, I've heard that this~~~> *Click Here* is what they call what you posted in Texas!

You musta meant "SOLE MATES"!

Happy Anniversary Mel!

Mrs. W

Good to see you Mel! Happy Anniversary to you and Mr. Lane. Hope y'all have a special evening lined up!

Happy Anniversary to that Tenacious Texan and her hubby! Hope you have the happiest year ever!!! When you go out tonight, make sure you have a big glass of COKE and a SMILE...and then a vegetarian dinner (with NO FAT), of course...

you shaddup, MrsW!

**snort**

thankee, Kimmy, keepitreal and faithfulfollower!

Melody lane in the house.

shaddup, LALA!!

But thanks for the well wishes. We are saving our anniversary celebration for a June trip back up to the city where we met. A ROMANTIC trip!

My man, MEDC!

Welcome back friend. Happy anniversary too!

Thanks, MEDC, good to see y'all!

My WS, (user ILMK above), found this place, started posting, and suggested I join her here.

It's wonderfully encouraging to read these posts and to hear from special people we haven't heard much from in a while (plus some newer ones!) Now I'm starting to sense this place getting its "feel" back..and that's a good thing!

Yahoo!! Mel's back! Happy Anniversary Mel... this place ain't been the same without ya. It's been like the recipe that's missing that little oomph that only you can contribute. Welcome back!

Thanks PrincessMeggy! Great to see ya!

For me, MBer's was a PERSONAL TOUCH from JESUS...

I was praying to HIM to HELP ME.."I need you, LORD"...

Sat down at the computer and VOILA...

There was MEL AND WAT....

What drew me here? Well, not a what, but a who - Larry. (Hi, Larry!) He found me on another site, suggested this one, and along with other people helped pull me out of my fog.

Me at the time - actively wayward, although tired of lies/secrecy, thinking of quitting but wishing I could talk my husband into an open marriage.

The two major discoveries that really tipped the scales for me and led me to change my ways and confess to my husband were 1- that what he didn't know was still hurting him anyway; hearing from BH's that they knew something was wrong before they knew what it was helped wake me up - and 2- that saving the marriage (without living a double life) was a real possibility and confession wasn't a guaranteed trip to divorce court.

As such, 2x4s were sometimes helpful, but not all 2x4s are equal. I personally think attacking someone's general character instead of behavior is likely to backfire for a number of different reasons.

LaLa...just thinking about you today. Hope you are doing okay today.

When I lost my first lab, he was a gift from my ex wife(given to me on the same day I asked her to marry me), I NEVER thought I would wind up with another dog so quickly...it would seem disloyal. I went to the SPCA to inquire about a dog for my dad and while there, someone brought in a yellow lab that looked so similar to the other as a pup...well, he's still here (although now he is getting close to 10). While it hurt tremendously to lose my dog (and still does when I think about it), giving my attention and love to a new dog(and two other recues since) was helpful.

Dogs are the best people I have ever met.

Hi all!

Well, I began reading here about April 2007. My DW had confessed her A to me about 2 months prior to that and I was looking for answers to the things I was feeling. I found so much comfort here that everything I was experiencing was normal for someone in my situation. We were completely stuck where my DW wouldn't accept responsibility for what happened and in December 2007 I asked her for a D. We had been through so much at that point, I just couldn't take it any more. That night she came here and started posting. She read everything she could find on the site. She was still very fogged out and if it weren't for the straight talking posters here like MelodyLane, Mr & Mrs W, BK, Tyk, Mopey and MEDC just to name a few, we would likely be in the middle of a D right now. Thankfully, these people were able to get through her fog with tough talk on the choices she had made. It made all the difference in the world. We are still working on recovery, and I do believe we will build a better marriage than we had before. That never would have happened without MB and the posters here. For that, I will forever be in debt to this community.

MEDC,

I just wanted to personally thank you for your contribution and acceptance of my DW LaLa. She has made an amazing transformation from how she arrived here at MB. I am such a lucky man to be her husband and I'm so proud of all the good she is doing for the MB community. You were very much responsible for helping her in the beginning. Still to this day, the quote she mentions most about what helped her see things diffently was from you.


Sadly, I have my doubts that the "Tough Talk" that was used to help change my DW into one of the most respected FWSs(God I hate labeling her) here wouldn't be allowed to happen in the new PCness of MB. What a shame.

Anyways, we have an appointment to have our dog put to sleep tomorrow at 11:15. It will be such a sad day. LaLa is going to be so grateful to see what you just posted. I just had to take a moment and come in here to say "Thank You!" for all you have done from my family and my DW.

Want2Stay

you're welcome and I am touched.

Yes, you are lucky to have such a wonderful wife...as she is to have a man like you for her husband.

I too worry about if such tough talk will be available for the next person that would benefit from it. Let's hope that the PC thing doesn't go too far.

Thank you for taking the time to post those warm thoughts today. You both will be in my thoughts tomorrow.

MEDC

I found this site by googling Infidelity five days after Dday.
After reading everything I could on the site, I realised I had been PLan Aing my H during the whole A.

I was lucky, H agreed to immediate NC (bc of my stellar Plan A)
My boundary on Dday was "It's her or me." He knew I meant it, and made the RIGHT choice.

We got on board with MB principles.

We are 'recovered.'

We have a NEW & better marriage bc of MB.

And bc of all the help & support I received here, I became a better person.

PS Lala & W2S, I am so sorry about your dog

((((((MEDC)))))) Your post meant so much. It is a difficult time for sure. Poor guy is having a really hard time even breathing right now and it is so sad to see...a little over a month ago, he was as healthy as a pup. This was all just so sudden. Tomorrow will be a rough one! When W2S worked nights, Sonny (and the comfort of his protection) was the reason I slept most nights.

Fraggles...thank you also for your post! I appreciate it!

I stay on this board because it helps me tremendously. I've learned so much about relationships on here that I know that I will be much better equipped in the future for my future marriages.

It has also helped me to help others. I heard from a former poster the other day that told me that I and someone else who helped him online helped him stay strong to weather the storm and preserve his marriage. Things are still rocky for him, but they are on the road to recovery.

I've learned a lot from people here who have reached out to me, including Mr and Mrs W, Coachswife, Mortarman, Chrisner, mkz, and too many others to list.

I've laughed with many of you. I've rooted for many of you.

This board is my sounding board of sanity. I never thought that an off topic discussion on getting kids to eat veggies would have so many responses. They were responses which helped me and which my exWW was unwilling to give.

It's been a personal journey over two years in the making and the members of this board are a hidden family I know I can turn to at any time for emotional support. It's one of the only places I can come to to talk about "triggers" and about feelings that are totally normal, but are somehow taken as abnormal in the normal world.

Whether a current BS, FWS, or FBS, the members of this forum are brothers and sisters bonded by a tragic experience but one which hopefully guides us to a more enlightened existence in our own personal lives and future relationships.

This board is a gift to the lost souls out there who are seeking answers and a lighthouse in the dark.

What brought me here was Google.

What keeps me here is all of you awesome people....thanks from the bottom of my heart!

[threadjack]

LTF your handle always makes me recall that great Foo Fighters song "learn to fly"

" run and tell all of the angels...this could take all night"



[/threadjack]

I originally came to this site because I read and thorougly agreed with Dr Harley's insights and "plans". The MC my wife and I were seeing hadn't really read any of this before us, but used a lot of the same principles to help us recover our marriage from her infidelity.

I also came here after first having started posting on another, similar forum about relationships. That particular forum, while it had a lot of good people providing advice and information, was at the time filled with a lot of spiteful, bitter, angry, hurt people who posted solely to vent their hurt and anger on others. I quickly sickened of that attitude and found this place to be a wonderful haven against that, that still provided the right kind of advice and support to rebuild marriages.

I slowly backed off posting here, and resumed posting on the other site because over the months and years, the situation slowly reversed itself. This place became less of a place where anyone involved in an affair could come to get honest, point blank advice that DIDN'T include personal attacks, and the "other" forum mellowed out considerably under much better moderation than it had had previously.

I've started lurking here since the forum change to see how things go from here with the new moderators.

I miss a few of the posters here occasionally, especially some of the older ones that were here when I first came. Its sad that so many of them are gone.

Owl:

Interestingly (and sadly, perhaps), I've made the same observation.

-ol' 2long

Hey Owl!!

I'm really glad to see you after a long absence. I googled "infidelity" like alot of the other people, but it's folks like you and 2long who made me want to stay.

It looks like people are still trickling in after the upgrade, and maybe some of the folks you miss will still turn up.

So far, I really like the new board.

Hi Owl and 2long,

I'm not sure which other forum you are referring to. I lurk on several and post on at least one other.

The "nice" site has so few postings you mostly talk to yourself and 2 or 3 of the moderators.

The not-so-nice site supports venting but there just simply isn't much of a systematic plan there. Also - they don't tend to be as concerned with saving marriages as they are with the individual dealing with the insult of infidelity.

So, I still like this place best.

EXACTAMUNDO eaglesoar!!! MB is set apart by the awesome PLANS! The other sites offer lots of commiseration, which I think serves only to keep people mired in MISERY...

Mrs. W

I too googled infidelity. I needed to know "why", "how", this could happen. I HOPED to find I wasn't crazy, I wasn't imagining the horrible, I wasn't being duped, that I could overcome the wanting to die feelings. And lo and behold MB pops up! There was a PLAN! There was a way! I wasn't alone. As horrible as A's are for me finding others who had experienced the same and overcame was a BLESSING. Finding a forum with such caring people who were willing to walk with me, guide me through what I considered the depths of h$ll saved my life.

To me MB is a very logical plan.

I can't thank everyone enough for posting to me, posting their own situations, the Harleys, everything here, TRULY a lifesafer even IF the M went the way of D, I HAVE hope.

I agree...the greatest distinction that MB has going for it is definitely the "plans" that the Harleys put together.

The "other" forum I was referring to has several former posters from MB on it as well (TMCM, Ladyjane, 2long, and others) that often refer to the MB plans to help others recover from infidelity. I normally refer posters to this site specifically for the information, the books, and of course going to the Harley's for counseling as well.

Thanks for letting me know I wasn't alone in what I was seeing, 2long. Your advice is always good to see, regardless of the forum its posted in.

I was like everybody else. Searching sites looking for answers. Most of what I found was "how to cheat" sites, "send me $50 and I'll send you a book that will make her come home" sites, and the "we are betrayed, lets all cry about it" sites. I was reading a forum on one of these sites and somebody asked another person if they wanted to try and save the marriage, recommended this place, and that's where I headed and never left. It was probably one of the veterans here, but I couldn't tell you who or what site I was on.

The first thing that caught my attention was all of the free material on the site, simply unheard of on other sites, which I read a few times over. Then I checked out the forum for a week or so before I decided to jump in.

This place saved my life and I will be eternally grateful

I ditto this....

And one way to show my gratitude is to learn everything I can and serve G-d by being there for those who come after me and giving to them the way everyone gave to me and does so each day.

This place is a sad place to have to come to, but once here it is the most amazing support system that has impacted my life in ways I can't even understand yet.

I Googled, I came, I saw, I read, I posted, I networked, I conquered.....

WE recovered.


Thanks, MB.

SB

Amen to that, SB. MB is, far and away the BEST marriage recovery board I have found on the internet.

I suppose if I actively looked for the negative, I could find it anywhere. I am glad I was able to overlook the flaws and see the absolute GOOD here. The result has been a wonderful marriage and amazing sense of fulfillment helping others gain the same thing. God Bless Bill Harley.

Hi Aphaeresis. . .

You were not a tough sell. Given that you have brains, you saw the holes in your own logic and were ready to take a look at alternatives to the way you were thinking.

Sometimes I wonder how the "Another site" is doing, but not enough to wander over there. The owner of the site is using her brains to offer up counterfeit and red herring positions with nothing that helps people live with themselves in common decency.

I am so glad you came here and learned and adapted to your own situation from those better positioned to offer truth telling as a standard.

Larry

My W leaving me is what drew me here. I have woken up to a nightmare and I can only hope and pray I can save my marriage now before her love bank is not the only one empty.

Rather like someone else posted, I googled affairs, seperation, how to keep spouse etc, and over and over agaim MB came up. It didnt ask for money for some books and cd's. It had so much free info I could look at and let slowly sink in. Yes I think after initially finding out about the A, BS have a mini fog that takes a few days to move thru.
I stay here because I am supported, people are positive, and I can see some progress, where as the other site I looked at, I never saw progress, although I did buy the book
I find being able to go back to the info on this site over and over again helpful, because sometimes I dont really understand, or I am not able to let sink in what I read the first time.