Good afternoon everyone.......


Yes,,,,I am back...I will post in a little bit about my trip, but I wanted to get this out there. I am starting a new thread on this topic, because I DID ask this question on my thread, but everyone either missed it or ignored it...and I REALLY wanted some answers on this....

I have heard around here about the BS being in their own fog??? What is exactly is that??/ Is it where they are looking at their M's through rose colored glasses?? Is it where they think things will never work out??? Is is where they think their WS and sitchs are unique??? What is it and what is the line of thinking on it????

Thanks for any replies....now I will follow up on my goings on in my thread....

missed you all btw....

not2fun

BS fog, at least in many men I've seen here, myself included, is fear of the wayward.

The wayward lashes out and men in this fog often cower. So a BS exposes and a wayward gets mad over that exposure, blaming the BS for "violating their trust" and "ruining their reputation" or "being vindictive".

The BS will then think they messed it all up because they've upset the wayward, who is now saying that the BS "ruined any chance of saving things" through their actions.

Well, a BS will stay in this fear and let it guide him or her.

A BS will think, "MB offers guidance, but my WW is different. This guidance won't work with her."

Well, the fact is that she is NOT unique and is just like every wayward described on these forums.

So a BH must "be a man" which simply means not being a doormat. It means not allowing the WW to blameshift or letting her dump the reasons for her PA on the BH.

No one ever put a gun to the WW's head and told her to do what she did.

But a WW will blameshift and the BH will take the blame, despite the fact that he's the victim in all of this.

Does this help?

Do women get this same BS fog?

A female BS basically does the same thing. She is so fearful that she's going to upset her WH and that he'll NEVER come back, that she'll let him cake eat as much as he likes. WH then has no reason to change because hey, he's a happy guy. He's getting what he wants from his BS AND from his OW.

Or a female BS Plan A's her butt off doing a magnificent job. But when Plan A doesn't live up to HER expectations and it's time to do Plan B, she backs down. Nope, she can come up with a 1000 reasons why Plan B won't work in her case. Rather than choosing to go to Plan B to PROTECT the love that she has left for her WH, she chooses to remain in Plan A until eventually she has NO love left for her WH. The cake-eating done by WH has a strange effect. Instead of making WH sick... it makes the BS sick, and sicker by refusing to protect her heart.

A female BS who is in the fog eventually ends up in Plan FU when the fog finally clears. Unfortunately, her marriage that may have been saved way back at the end of Plan A, is lost.

Thanks P...this helps.....btw...I am not a man though...just wanted to let you know...

bumping for more replies......

oh gosh this is so me.

And another thing...

Not only is Plan B to protect the BS' love for their WS, it's to help the BS MOVE ON with their life and take the focus off of what WS is up to every minute of every day. It allows BS to begin to heal, without the daily assault on her heart and emotions.

What I've observed... is that a BS who remains in the fog throughout the demise of her marriage... finally emerges from the fog too late... a BBS. She earns an extra "B" for "Bitter".

PM --

My husband didn't call me bitter, but he did call me hostile. I'm emerging from the BS fog. I thought that, if I could just figure out what I could do, then our marriage could recover. My husband did a great job of emphasizing my fault for his choices, with comments like:
"I had no choice but to have an affair."
"She met my needs, and you wouldn't."
"You didn't care about me, so I did what I wanted."

I've tried so many plans that I've lost count. Now I'm down for the count, bitter, and looking at years of my life wasted -- and for what?

Here is what Harley has to say about a BS being responsible for an affair (from an old radio program):

Bill: Why do people do things that hurt other people? And the answer is that part of it is we don’t care about other people. We only care about ourselves, and when we are only caring about ourselves and we’re not caring about other people, people should run for cover. And the question is: What is it we can do to make ourselves safe in relationships with other people and that is to create environmental factors – environmental rules, regulations – to live by that consciously and purposely protect other people from our own selfish instincts.

Joyce: What is the percentage – How successful can couples be after infidelity and having a good marriage? … An affair happens in your marriage. What is the likelihood of success that your marriage will become happy again and maybe even better than before the infidelity?

Bill: It’s very low, very low. Most couples that have affairs end their marriage in
divorce. Most of those that remain remain unhappy…

Joyce: I seem to get the impression that her husband is blaming her for not being happy with the infidelity…

Bill: Not being happy with her so he ends up -- he says he’s not happy with her so has an affair

Joyce: Oh, so it’s her fault he’s having an affair…

Bill: And if she’d be a little more cooperative I wouldn’t be having so many affairs… And it’s the same argument people use that are physically abusive. Basically, if my wife would stop irritating me, I wouldn’t be beating her as much. The question is: What can she do to get him to quit having affairs? The answer is: Nothing. There’s nothing she can do. It’s really all in his court. If he has one affair, my argument has always been that that is sufficient to divorce. Now, the question is: Does he want to straighten things out with her? If he does, then the question is: What does he have to do? Well, he has to never see or talk to the lover again. He has to create extraordinary precautions, make sure he doesn’t have that affair rekindled or any other affair and he has to make sure their marriage is restored. When somebody has an affair, it isn’t so much what should the person who is betrayed, what should they do, to get him to stop having an affair.. Yes, indeed, you need to have emotional needs met, but it’s still no excuse for having an affair.

Joyce: And it sounds to me like he is just using his wife as an excuse to justify what he really wants to be doing – and he doesn’t want to be faithful.

Bill: Yeah. And anybody that says, well, the reason that I hit you is because of what you did or what you said, it’s the same kind of a thing. The first step toward overcoming domestic violence is to recognize that there are no excuses for domestic violence…What’s the first step in anger management counseling? And that is to convince the violent spouse that they have no right ever hurting their spouse regardless of what their spouse may have said or done.

Joyce: But how do you convince them of that if they can always justify their outburst of anger?

Bill: This is where counseling is important. Counseling from my perspective is an opportunity to change somebody’s mind, to change somebody’s thoughts, to change somebody’s attitudes, to change them. And a lot of times you got to begin with their attitudes. But that’s not where you end. You can’t end with attitudes, because you have to end with behavior. I’ve known a lot of people that fully believe that they should not be beating their wife, and yet they can’t stop because they haven’t learned to stop doing that…So the first step is to recognize that there is no excuse for an affair. If her husband were to tell me, every time I have an affair, I feel guilty, I feel like I’ve sinned against God, I’ve sinned against my wife, I’ve sinned against my children, I’m a horrible person to be doing this. Then I would say, “Now, what we have to do is create an environment where you’re not going to have another affair. And it’s going to be very restrictive, at least at first. You’re basically going to be watched 24 hours a day. You’re not going to be able to do and say what you want to say. It’s just like with helping a person overcome addiction to alcohol. You can’t be working in a bar when you are trying to recover from being an alcoholic. This woman’s husband says, “It’s your fault that I’m having an affair.” And I’d say, “What can she do to get him to stop?” And the answer is “Absolutely nothing. There’s nothing she can do. She has to walk away. She has to turn her back and walk away from him. Otherwise, she’s going to continue to be hurt by him the rest of their lives. The same thing is true of men that beat their wives. The same thing is true with men or woman who are verbally abusive. The question is: “How do I get my spouse to stop being abusive? How do I get my spouse to stop hurting me?” The answer is, “There’s nothing you can do. It’s all on the part of the person who is doing the damage.”

Cherishing

PM,

Yep, you are sooo right. This is what happened to me. I was so convinced that my WH would never leave a 34 yr marriage for a ?(well, let's just say he affaired way down) that I didn't see reality coming. I got so frustrated at the continued contact, lies, etc. My self worth was taking a hit, my health, you name it. I did a big Plan FU out of total frustration and craziness and LB'd big time on the way out the door.

Had I stuck to my first Plan B like I should have, I may be recoverd today. The BS fog really clouded reality of the A. I thought my WH was different.... Yeah right.

yes, this is the point i'm at. this is so desperately what i want. but i screwed up today and got sucked in. and i'm so angry at myself. and him. i just want him to CARE about me.

The BW fog stops the BW seeing how bad her WH really is, stops her seeing that it'll ever get better, stops her understanding exactly what is going on because she is so totally focused on the WH, that everything else is supurfluous, a distraction.
It increases her chances of misinterpting actions and comments whereby she'll either think everthing points to immediate reconcilliation even tho everyone else can see its tentative at best, or will miss glaringly obvious signs of progress as she is in a major taker mode and doesnt believe a thing about his motives

I'm at the same place that you are. I'm having no contact with him at the moment, but I so desperately want to so that I can just hear his voice. I want him to want to talk to me....

I've not heard it referred to that way, but it makes perfect sense now.

I had some pretty smart posters that worked with me during my pain point out that I would let my own fears and insecurities take over when he was acting out. And for him that was the opportunity to be the hero so we created a real co-dependent, unhealthy, toxic situation.

To the BS here, the BS fog makes you forget this important fact:

You only control yourself in this marriage.


You cannot control whether or not your WS cares about you.
You cannot control whether or not he/she chooses to continue the affair.
You cannot control whether or not the WS says or does ANYTHING.


You only control yourself.


The BS fog puts you into a state of fear - that each and every action you take, or each and every thing you say somehow "makes" your WS do/feel/think something.

That just isn't true.

Certainly, your behavior and actions do influence your WS's attitudes and perceptions of you.

But you cannot "make" anyone feel or do anything they do not already want to do. People choose for themselves. They act for themselves.

The "fog" of the WS or BS really puts people into the mindset of trying to justify doing or not doing things - the only difference is that the WS fog tends to justify and lengthen the affair, and the BS fog tends to justify not being more pro-active/gutsy when taking actions aimed at ending the affair.

The fog of the BS really comes out of fear - the BS really wants to recover the WS to the marriage, and does not want to do anything further that might push the WS away. So anything perceived in that vein is fogged out. But who's to blame them? The marriage has been nuked, they are crazy with pain and hurt.

Thank God MB is here to help them through this.

Just remember, you control what you do, what you say, how you do it, how you say it.......................all of YOU. Do the best job you can while the WS is around, and come back here to regroup and plan.

SB

> “The fog of the BS really comes out of fear - the BS really wants to recover the WS to the marriage, and does not want to do anything further that might push the WS away.”

The fear makes BS afraid to act in case it makes things worse.
The fear makes BS wants to keep the M at extreme cost.

You can tell when BS fog lifts. BS is wondering WTF was I thinking wanting to save this!

That will pass too.

Thank you guys for the replies. It helps me tremendously. I was VERY confused on this subject. And if I am reading all of this correctly basically EACH and EVERY BS that comes here is in a fog.....which is funny because SO much is referred to the WS fog but not the BS fog.

Oh sure, there are references to it, but I never really got what it meant. Just another lesson for me to learn.....

BTW....School....you have eloquently explained this...as usual....

not2fun

A foggy BS is one who believes the most ridiculous spin because he/she WANTS to believe it so badly. He/She denies the reality before their face instead of facing it and taking action.

They stop snooping because the WS has manipulated them into believing snooping is "untrustworthy." They agree to not expose the affair because the WS "won't ever forgive them." One poor beleaguered soul told me she couldn't expose her H's affair to the OWH because it would be "unchristian." Most folks are very ill prepared to deal with manipulators. Not because they are stupid, but because they are in deep shock.

thank God that some find their way here.

Will your fog lift any time soon?

I hope so.

Maybe I will see certain posters for who they really are.