Marriage Builders
Posted By: not2fun Need help with Recovery Issue..ASAP - 05/23/08 05:15 AM
Good evening everyone....

Well, I am starting a new thread....and hopefully my LAST one. This will center around recovery. Now, I know you all will wonder why its not on the Recovery Forum, but I began here and I want to end here. Also, I hardly EVER look at the other forums and the most traffic is here....so GQII is where I am staying.....

Well, WS and I are doing well so far. Oh I have my moments of doubts, even almost ended it all last night, but I didn't and fixed it....major mistake and a LB to boot...have learned and will not do that again.

WS and I are spending TONS of time together. It probably helps that I am on a leave of absence from work (all stemming from the cruise....) and he owns his own business. He has called everyday and invited me to lunch, which has been nice. Very nice. We are talking well. There are times of uncomfortable silences but we are both putting forth the effort. He has also been here almost every night, and when he hasn't I have been at his place.

Today, we went to lunch, and this evening we went to the movies(don't waste your money on the new Indiana Jones movie....terrible...). Afterwards he came over and we spent time watching TV. It was a very lovely day. I enjoyed nearly every moment of it. It was nice.

So, we are trying to meet each others EN's, spending loads of time together, and making plans. We have a long way to go and lots of work to still be done, but I am very hopeful at this point. NC is in place and by the looks of things, has remained that way.....

So just wanted to update you all.......I will link my other threads as soon as Mark gets back to me on how to do it....

Thanks again for being there.....

not2fun
^5 N2F!
grin grin grin
Good afternoon everyone......

Well, the trip into recoveryville is nice. Not exactly smooth sailing, but nonetheless, nice.

Yesterday was an another amazing day. We did some errand running together. We had a nice trip to the mall and had lunch. We did have a rocky conversation about BOW, which actually started out talking about his business, but we quickly got off that subject (nothing like a timely call from dad.... ;)). Then last night we took a lovely drive out to the country. That was REALLY nice. It was fun just enjoying the scenery and just being together. We didn't talk, but it was a comfortable silence.

Unfortunately, things didn't end well, because I found a card in the car. I got hurt, WS tried to play it off which then made me mad....and so the evening didn't end well. We still haven't quite sorted it out, but this maybe one of those things that doesn't get sorted out. Trying to put the resentment on hold....this morning I woke up to the refridgerator broken, car with a flat, and crazy kiddies....ahhhh....life does not stop just because of A's...

WS and I had a pleasant afternoon. Right now he is at the movies with the kiddies while I get some work done and then later we are going to HOOTERS to watch the UFC fights (he loves that stuff and I have watched enough with him these past few years I don't mind...not my favorite but I don't hate it either....now football....I'm ALL about it....). I'm going to have my GODDESSS grove on and it will be great....

not2fun......still loving posting under my old name.... grin
OHHHHHH.....I forgot to mention one VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL.....


I started the Chantix today.....YEAH......so in ONE WEEK...count 'em....7 days....I will be smoke free.....yeah.....and then the VERY CRUX of my Plan A will be accomplished.....woo hoo.......

not2fun
Hey Not,

Just wanted to give you a friendly warning about Chantix. There has been a lot of talk about how taking it can lead to depression and suicidal thoughts. This is not something someone in early recovery needs. Please be very careful with this drug. Pfizer actually just revised the warning label because of these potential side effects. Here's a link about it:

Chantix warning label changed by Pfizer

Want2Stay


p.s. Not, I feel your pain being a smoker too, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the risks.
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Not, I feel your pain being a smoker too, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the risks.

Same here N2F ALSO be very AWARE of the side effects. My sister and alot of folks that tried that have had severe side effects!

Good luck with stopping. The nicorette gum cinaminion(sp) is pretty good!
I took it for 90 days, almost immedidatly following D-Day. I experienced no side effects... It worked for me.

Thank you for the encouragement all....I have not taken this route lightly. Neither has my DR.. She has me doing phone consultations with her to monitor my progress. She really is a great Dr. who has walked me through my various valleys with me in life. So she knows me pretty well.

As far as side effects, the only one I see right now is the sleepiness. I don't so much feel it when I am awake, but man I could sleep for 10 hrs. a day right now. Hopefully that will wane and none of the other side effects will transpire. I am pretty tolerant to meds. Side effects usually don't become a problem for me...and sometimes yhou have to weigth the outcome with what you get. For me, the outcome is most desirable.


Good afternoon everyone....

Hope you all had a great and relaxing holiday weekend (special shout-out to Amazing....thank you for your duty to us.....thought about you yesterday).

This weekend went ok. WS and I spent all of it together. We saw the fights on Sat. at Hooters, which was a lot of fun (and boy was I GODDESSED up for them....lol). and Sunday was more of a relaxing day. And yesterday, we all cleaned out the garage together. Oh, and WS and I went to the gym. I gained a couple of pounds, so I need to watch myself. Don't want to gain the weight back....Nope...Don't necessarily recommend the A diet, but since I got my weight back off, I had forgotten how good it felt. THAT I would like to see stay around.

Now, WS did make a comment about looking good at the gym (which I know lots of people here may have a problem with, but I do know Mimi would understand this one.....PA is VERY high on my WS needs.....VERY HIGH.....), which I need to do better at. I need to get some new workout clothes. For sure.....

I will have to say I didn't get my GODDESS grove on to well yesterday, but today,....I got it all back into shape....lol....

We are dealing with things pretty good. Sometimes when I don't though, I do wonder if my EXPECTATIONS aren't a little too high, especially this early in R. For all aspects, WS is keeping to his NC. Cell phone records are clean and email is good, so though I do worry about it, I am not seeing anything. Which is very good.....now for me having access to the phone records, I have to keep a very tight reign on myself not to go back and look at past records. I say this, because in doing so would not help us now, and would only serve to give me more resentment, WHICH I do not need at all.....Lord knows I have enough to deal with....and triggers??? I try not to let them get to me too bad. I just try to remember that all I can do is work on today and that for today WS is with me.....can undo the past....

Anyway, this is how it is so far.....I have been keeping up with everyone's post. I will say that it does sadden me to see so many newbies coming in......A's just suck.....

not2fun
Not,

Just checking in while on vacation. cool

Some might feel you are letting him off the hook too lightly, but I think that recovery is more personal that dealing with and ending the affair. Ultimately, you are the one that has to set the conditions of YOUR recovery and it will be you that has to live with your decisions.

I think you can and will reach a point where recovery will be just a word you once used, but be careful that you don't let him totally off the hook for figuring out what precautions he will take in the future.

Some times an affair is a total abheration and completely out of character for the person having one. But in many cases someone who was once able to justify an affair must reach a point where they deal with life as any addict would, and that is, daily monitoring their own actions and choices to ensure that never again will they make the same errors in judgment.

I'm happy for you. When your H is ready and we'll whip into shape for you. grin

Back to fishin...

Mark
Originally Posted by Mark1952
Some might feel you are letting him off the hook too lightly,

Hey Mark....how's the fishing going??? Giving ya lots and lots and lots of time to think of the next post you are going to make huh??? A little something for your repair manual???
Anyway, not sure what you mean by this??? Could you expand on that a little more????

Have a great time on your vacation......see ya when ya get back....oh and I'll fax you my fishing order...I love to eat 'em, but hate to catch them......too solitary of a sport for me..... wink

not2fun
Good morning folks.....

Well, life in Recoveryville is not quite what I "EXPECTED". But then I think everybody's goes a little differently. It's not all bad, mind you, just not what I thought. Of course, I am dealing with a WS in WD, and I, myself, still dealing with hurt and anger issues, but for the most part we are getting along. Mostly advoiding those pesky little LB'S at all costs....lol.

Morning are still hard. Except now I wake up more angry than hurt like before. All par for the course as they say.....but I am working on getting that righted.....

Anyway, just touching base and journeling my journey.....lol....

not2fun
Good afternoon everyone.....

Had lunch with WS again. It was nice. We ate outside where it was beautiful out. I was decked out in my GODDESS form....except for this t-shirt he just bought me. I'm not totally convinced I should wear it, but he likes it....

Anyway, he ordered the flooring piece we needed to finish re-modeling upstairs. yeah....I am so incrediably happy about that....so hopefully that will get here soon.....

Now, he did mention that the new Iphone comes out soon and he wants to get that one. Then he suggested that I could have his old one. I told him politely no thank, and then suggested later that he should sell it.....no affair-phone for me thank you and to get it out of my sight would be great. I don't think he "gets" what that phone means to me, but as long as he gets rid of it....who cares????

Anyway, thinks are going along ok......hitting the gym together tonight so here we go.....

not2fun
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hitting the gym together tonight so here we go.....

GREAT!! THAT'S FUN!!
Good evening folks.....


Yeppers....here in Recoveryville, life is at an all-out-stop. Seems WS and I do well for 3 or 4 days, and then bammm....something happens and we go backwards. I have to wonder if this is normal.

But I actually have a question that I could really use some help on.....

When in the early days of recovery, What is a BS supposed to do when they are triggered by something that brings the A back to their forethoughts? More to the point, what does a BS do with all their feelings of hurt/anger/dispair in these early days???

I realize that I should be concentrating on today and not on the yesterdays, but it is really hard when this is still on my mind. I can control it sometimes, but not all the time. I also know that if I were to bring it up EVERY single time its on my mind, we would get bogged down in the scumminess of it all. Not what I am looking for either.

So, it any of you all have any answers, I'd apprieciate it......

not2fun
Just like I've been telling BROWN..stay away from THE FEELINGS..DO SOMETHING..you can even DO SOMETHING FUN with your H...
I hope you weren't thinking that you can TALK OUT THE FEELINGS with him..or make the AFFAIR go away..the FEELINGS will eventually SUBSIDE as YOU BUILD GOOD MEMORIES in the PRESENT..that's why I said to DO STUFF with him....we went to NEW PLACES that we had never been before..we did NEW STUFF that we had never done together before...KWIM???..STAY BUSY....ACT..DON'T FEEL...
It did help me..BIT by BIT..to have TIME-LIMITED QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSIONS..I would ask questions..he would answer to the extent that he could without the both of us being too distressed..and then we would move on until the NEXT WAVE...THE WALKING WOUNDED...
MImi....

ok that does help....and we HAVE stayed busy. But sometimes the feelings come and I CAN put them on hold or shake them, but sometimes I cant. And then they become overwhelming. It doesn't help that I truly and honestly do not feel like I can come hear and get them out. I don't want to bombard him everytime they come....that I get. It also doesn't help that he doesn't want me talking to my sister about this so now the TWO places I turned to the most seem to be gone. That is VERY DISTRESSING to me.

I like the Q&A thing, but WS is still in this place where he seems to think we should just "forget" it or "just get over" it....very frusterating. Not to mention it make me feel like he is not VALIDATING my feelings. Very hurtful....

ok...done for now....I feel much calmer right now.....

he has done alot to meet some needs and has gone far beyond and above meeting those 15hrs. He has.....and I appriciate that. I'm still struggling with the O&H stuff....WS was never very open to begin with, and I have come to find out that is VERY VERY high need of mine. I know he thinks he is shielding or protecting me when he doesn't share, BUT I find it very infuriating...which brings on feelings of resentment which in turn makes him not want to be open (see the dog chasing his tail here?????)...

Very tricky stuff to navigate through....

not2fun
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But sometimes the feelings come and I CAN put them on hold or shake them, but sometimes I cant. And then they become overwhelming.

What kind of feelings? Anger? Sadness?

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It doesn't help that I truly and honestly do not feel like I can come hear and get them out.

Why not? It's OK for him to come on here and read about YOUR FEELINGS if it's safer than expressing them to him directly. He doesn't want you posting on here?

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It also doesn't help that he doesn't want me talking to my sister

I can understand that. He might feel shamed by you sharing with your sister since he has to face her but we don't know him.

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I like the Q&A thing, but WS is still in this place where he seems to think we should just "forget" it or "just get over" it....

HE may feel this way but YOU don't. YOU do not have to BUY his still foggy viewpoint. You don't have to rub it in his nose at this point but remain steadfast in your viewpoint that YOU will NOT forget this or "just get over it". He will EVENTUALLY change from this protective stance. My husband has. It's too hurtful to your H at this point to take a close, hard look at himself. It will come and he will feel REAL BAD about what he has done to you if he really repentant.
kind of feelings????

There are hurt ones, but mostly it is anger right now. I do tend to think I have been more angry lately, because those feelings hurt less than the anger ones. And sometimes, its the hurt and pain in my heart, and then I FEEL like WS doesn't recognize them I get angry.

I can give you an example.....

Last friday, WS and I had a most wonderful day. We didn't do anything over the top or special, just hung out together at the mall, went shopping for food for the weekend, planning on what we were eating (WS loves to cook....something we enjoy for the most part together...), just being together. In the afternoon, we were laying on the bed together, just resting and I was looking at him, thinking "this has been really good today. I feel happy and content, and this A crap hasn't bothered me at all....what a nice change". After dinner we took a drive and that was nice. I even told him so.

Well, later on I found a Valentines day card that he had given her in the car. I got upset. I didn't yell or anything, but I did tell him to take me home. He asked what was wrong, I handed him the card, he read it (like he had never seen it before) and then started to say that it wasn't signed (which it wasn't, BUT he got me some stuff on Vday at the last minute and I KNOW what he did do for her on that weekend....AND I also know that she had given him many cards, but they were not signed as a way that it couldn't be used against them...).

That is when I got angry. I felt like he was playing me for a fool again, and that I was so stupid I would fall for whatever he said. He went on to say it didn't matter what he said, I wouldn't like it.

Now, I feel like he should have just acknowledged the card for what it was, apologized for it, and then threw it away. And he didn't.

In fact, he put the card behind the seat, and it is still there today. Now, in my heart of hearts, I do not think he is keeping it there on purpose, I do think he forgot about it BUT my thinking is if he TRULY was concerned for my feelings in all of this, he would have gotten rid of it by now.....

Does this make any sense??? Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill????

So, no we are not dealing with things that are right there infront of our faces concerning this...and we are not dealing with things that go on in our heads....

I also believe this will all take A LOT OF TIME AND PATIENCE.....but I am not the most patient of people....which is why I have stated earlier that my expectations may have been set a little too high......

not2fun
Originally Posted by mimi_here
He will EVENTUALLY change from this protective stance. My husband has. It's too hurtful to your H at this point to take a close, hard look at himself. It will come and he will feel REAL BAD about what he has done to you if he really repentant.


I am not so sure about this.....him changing his stance. In fact, he is starting to question whether or not he wants to try and recover, because he feels that I will never get over this and hold it over his head forever....which is totally not what I want to do.....I would love to see the day where we can be free of this, and it will only be fleeting......I crave that day, but I know that it will not be tomorrow, or next week......

not2fun

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Now, I feel like he should have just acknowledged the card for what it was, apologized for it, and then threw it away. And he didn't.

Come on, Not! How could he have known EXACTLY what YOU wanted him to do? Don't you think you are setting yourself up to be upset?

FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE!! FOCUS ON THE PRESENT!! He can't go back and take away the fact that he gave her that card. He can't READ YOUR MIND AND DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED HIM TO DO AND SAY!!

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he put the card behind the seat, and it is still there today.

Get it and tear it up!! EVEN BURN IT! I found stuff my H hid after he came back. I LOVED THROWING THAT STUFF AWAY!!

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no we are not dealing with things that are right there infront of our faces concerning this...and we are not dealing with things that go on in our heads....

So what does DEALING with things mean? Having FUN together for 15 hrs. is DEALING WITH THINGS! That is part of the HEALING of your marriage.

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also believe this will all take A LOT OF TIME AND PATIENCE

EXACTLY..it will take YEARS!!
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he feels that I will never get over this and hold it over his head forever...

That was a FEAR of my H's EARLY ON..

He used to say that he didn't want to get "beat up" by me..

It's EARLY, Not, that's what I meant by the protective stance..

He's covering up lots of his OWN HURT and SHAME...

Try to FOCUS ON PLEASANT TIME WITH EACH OTHER...

Sounds like to me that your H wants RECOVERY and wants to be with you..HE'S AFRAID...

TELL HIM: THAT YOU WILL GET OVER IT AND THAT YOU WILL NOT HOLD IT OVER HIS HEAD..

TELL HIM LOUD AND CLEAR
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Well, later on I found a Valentines day card that he had given her in the car. I got upset. I didn't yell or anything, but I did tell him to take me home. He asked what was wrong, I handed him the card, he read it (like he had never seen it before) and then started to say that it wasn't signed (which it wasn't, BUT he got me some stuff on Vday at the last minute and I KNOW what he did do for her on that weekend....AND I also know that she had given him many cards, but they were not signed as a way that it couldn't be used against them...).

Not, I can relate to how you feel. I remember very, very early into our recovery, I found a "love letter" that he had written to OW#2. It was like D-Day all over again. I was beside myself. I immediately confronted, he also played it down. He tried to tell me he never mailed it. Hello?? Does that matter, it was the WORDS that hurt so bad. (He did send it by the way.) This all happened when he was still a little foggy. There had been a similiar scene after his affair with OW#1 and a false recovered. I handled it badly both times.

After awhile (when true recovery began), he finally got it. In fact, we had a little ceremony, burning all keepsakes and items from "that time" (both affairs, there were pics, letters, cards, etc.) It did us both a world of good. I forget exactly what he said while we were burning them in the grill, but it was the right thing. It was something like we were burning these things as a symbol of our commitment to each other to build our marriage again out of the ashes.

It takes time Not. Lots of time. Lots of tears. Lots of hugs.
Hey Princess.....good to see ya....how's it going????

Ok Mimi....I think I get it (I am blonde though, so maybe not... ;)).

I thought a little more on your Q&A stuff, and to be honest, I don't have any more questions....not really. I mean, Idid bring up the jewerly yesterday, oh and whether or not they "planned" on sleeping together in Dallas (which really I don't care, because the simple truth is that they did, and whether or not it was "planned", I do know that at least sub-consciously it was.....)....so to be honest, I don't have questions. Mostly I am just trying to deal with the aftermath of it all, including the things that he had written to her and vice/versa. I mean, we are talking marriage, kids, her being the only woman he'll ever love....I understand the addiction part, I understand them doing and saying things to keep it going, I understand about the fog, BUT it doesn't make it hurt any less and I haven't gotten to the point where I have forgotten either. I realisze we are early in this....I understand it takes time.....I understand we have LOTS AND LOTS of work to do......

That is if he is still wanting to do it.....

And no he doesn't like me posting on here....but his thing now is that I have a problem spending too much time on the computer (which is true and problem we had B4 all of this....), so he is concerned my still coming here will take up too much time, time I could put towards other things (such as the house....)


not2fun
Not:

ACCEPTANCE. That's your work. Not his. He was IN LOVE with another woman. There's nothing either one of you can do today to ERASE that FACT. What's TALKING to him about it going to do?

I know it HURTS but you will have to move on and HEAL from the PAIN of THAT FACT. It is a GAPING WOUND INTO YOUR SOUL...

He is correct about that.

And if he wants you to spend less time on the computer, by all means DO THAT.

THIS IS THE WORK OF RECOVERY, NOT...one of the hardest things that I have ever done...

ACCEPTANCE of the HORROR of this BETRAYAL..that this has happened to you...

And if YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT..which is truly understandable..then, I think, your marriage will not recover...

Your H is correct about that, too..

THE WORK IN RECOVERY, IMO, is about HEALING...not DENIAL OF REALITY..

Sounds familiar..we've had this discussion before haven't we?
I can witness to you that you can RECOVER.

I feel so UTTERLY CLOSE to my H and him to me.

He's often not here on the weekends. Thus, I am here...but our TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS..WOW, we're so CONNECTED now...

Looking back, one reason is 'cause we HEALED together...

Like a couple that's been through a MAJOR TRAGEDY together..like the death of a child, I guess, and then got to the other side...

But, OUR EXPERIENCE with EARLY RECOVERY was almost exactly like yours...SAME OLD SCRIPT..you being no different..your H being no different...
Originally Posted by mimi_here
ACCEPTANCE. That's your work. Not his. He was IN LOVE with another woman. There's nothing either one of you can do today to ERASE that FACT. What's TALKING to him about it going to do?

Sounds familiar..we've had this discussion before haven't we?


MImi....

Those words (yours not his) just kill me. It is like a gapping wound. And I HATE that fact. YOu see the men on here talking about their WW having sex with another man and dealing with that because it is so hard (which is actually an area I have a pretty good handle on....)....but the FACT that he was in love with her and risked EVERYTHING to be with her, including me, including his children ....is something that is hard to swallow. I see the FACT...I have faced it before....and talking to him??? I guess it won't do anything other than more of me chasing my tail.....If he denies that he wasn't in love with her, I don't believe him (I saw the proof...I saw everything....) and admitting it really doesn't get us anywhere (or does it??? I wouldn't know because we haven't tried that route, but maybe I CANNOT handle him out and out saying it.....)

So how does one move to acceptance?????

and the DENIAL OF REALITY???? Yes, we have had that discussion before....of course, if you remember it took me awhile to TRULY face that REALITY.... wink....

and I am spending less time on the computer....on here tonight, because WS is at his home....I imagine this is all as hard on him as it is me....I try to remember that....I really do....in fact, I can tell when he has troubling thoughts on his mind, and that kills me as well....I just want to love on him and hold him when he is like that...

not2fun

ps....your post has made me cry....gosh I hate facing reality... frown
Why is he at HIS HOME?

He needs to COME HOME!!
Ok....another question...

When a BS moves into the role of acceptance, can they move out of it from time to time??? or if that is what they are doing is it a "false" acceptance??

I ask this because I mentioned that I have truly looked at the fact that he was in love with her before. I don't like that fact, but I have looked at it before. So, I am wondering the above questions.

My thinking is that I may have forgotten that I know this fact, and when things come to mind, I forgot what I know.....so then the hurt and anger come....and if one can move away from acceptance and back into the other cycle, maybe when I see these other emotions coming into play, I can remind myself of the facts (no matter how hard it is to look at them) acknowledge them and move on.....

not2fun


ps....now if WS comes on here to see all of this, I do hope he realizes how much good and learning I get from all of this....heck, even those hear don't mind knocking me around when needed.... wink
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I just want to love on him and hold him

And that it is EXACTLY what I would do when I was FEELING BAD..

HE may have "LOVED" her(or whatever..a CRAZY kind of LOVE, OK?) but he was THERE in MY ARMS...

And the LOVE BANK will fill up for YOU when YOU hold him and comfort him...

You need him THERE with YOU, IMO...

When you start to FEEL BAD, TAKE ACTION..

Do something to FILL HIS LOVE BANK..because he is THERE with YOU...

And you will FEEL YOUR PERSONAL POWER over THE AFFAIR..you will still be FIGHTING...
I think it's GREAT if he's reading now..but I spent minimal time on the forum in EARLY RECOVERY..spending most of my free time with him...

You are GROWING in ACCEPTANCE..that's your GOAL..you're not there yet..but don't go BACKWARDS into DENIAL...

It's like GRIEF WORK after a DEATH..your OLD MARRIAGE, untarnished by an affair, has DIED..you are building a NEW MARRIAGE...
Originally Posted by mimi_here
Why is he at HIS HOME?

He needs to COME HOME!!

Because he needs some space....(gosh...I know I know....RED FLAG CITY....BUT I do have everything I need in place to know whether or not NC is being broked)....

We talked about his coming home the other night. We both want it (and honestly, he has been spending ALL of his time here....he was even spending the night every night....only going there in the morning to shower and change.....and sometimes, he even brought xtra clothes for that....) but I think we both use that place as a safety net for when things get bad (like right now......). Probably not a good thing though....

not2fun
Originally Posted by mimi_here
And that it is EXACTLY what I would do when I was FEELING BAD..

that's funny, because that's really all I want to do......and it doesn't even make SENSE to me.....I mean I am angry or hurt and here I want to hold the one who caused it????? Makes me all confused inside.......

not2fun

I would tell him that you want him to come home.

That place has memories of her for him.

NOT GOOD even with NO CONTACT.

IMO, him moving back in should be HIGH PRIORITY!!

If he's wanting to work on the marriage, he doesn't NEED SPACE!

I would put a stop to this right away.

Maybe that's why you're feeling so bad tonight.

I think you should go over there or ask him to come to you.

I couldn't stand to be away from my H at all...during free time...

You're doing better than I could...

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that's funny, because that's really all I want to do......and it doesn't even make SENSE to me.....I mean I am angry or hurt and here I want to hold the one who caused it????? Makes me all confused inside.......

I've been telling you all night how hard RECOVERY is...

Originally Posted by mimi_here
I would tell him that you want him to come home.
I have.....
That place has memories of her for him.

I am sure it does.....

NOT GOOD even with NO CONTACT.

IMO, him moving back in should be HIGH PRIORITY!!

If he's wanting to work on the marriage, he doesn't NEED SPACE!

I would put a stop to this right away.

Maybe that's why you're feeling so bad tonight.

I think you should go over there.
I tried this last night.....I took him a fan and ice cream. He didn't want either and asked me for some space. Talk about a MAJOR rejection for me......

Can you?
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I tried this last night.....I took him a fan and ice cream. He didn't want either and asked me for some space. Talk about a MAJOR rejection for me......

OK. We have a PROBLEM. This is NOT RECOVERY.
No wonder you are feeling bad.
Originally Posted by mimi_here
I couldn't stand to be away from my H at all...during free time...

You're doing better than I could...

I wish I could say that.....there are many, many times all I want to do is be with him....and then there are other times, when all I want is some space myself....but not for too long of a time.....

I don't know why, but I have always been this way. Maybe because I have always been surrounded by people in some form or another....

as far as feeling bad....it's because he said that he is done...he is not sure IF he can do this......

which, is something we need to address, because I can't always be walking on eggshells either wondering if he's just going to throw in the towel or if I do something that THAT will be the final straw....
So you are saying that you're right back with him saying he's not sure about working on the marriage????
When I went into PLAN B, I had had it. Either he was going to work on the marriage or not. I couldn't handle that stuff anymore.

Have you been in contact with the OW's husband?

What's going on with them?
Originally Posted by mimi_here
So you are saying that you're right back with him saying he's not sure about working on the marriage????

yes
Originally Posted by mimi_here
Have you been in contact with the OW's husband?

What's going on with them?

I hear ya.....he's been saying he wants to work and has been doing that, but whenever things got "rough" between us (hence me asking these questions....) he said that. Whether it is because he is scared about what the future holds or what I don't know.....

no I have not talked to BOW H. Last I know, is they are working things out and its going pretty good. I never did let him know about ALL the contact they had had after her "bogus" NC letter went out.....once WS sent his and we agreed to do this recovery, I didn't see the reason to muddy the waters over there so to speak.....

I don't see you as being in RECOVERY.
I think you need to make your ground rules clear.

Get rid of that apartment so he can't run over there or else it's not RECOVERY.

RECOVERY is him being committed to working on the marriage.

When you are married, you have nowhere to run.

YOU DON'T RUN.

You're IN or OUT.
ok....I think we are on the same page now.........

thanks for all your guidance, as usual you helped me tons....may not have been ALL I wanted to hear, BUT then sometimes the things we don't want to hear are the best things for us to hear.... crazy

I agree about the "IN OR OUT" part.

I'm heading off to bed now....DS has an early BB game (if its not rained out....raining like cats and dogs over here....) and my legs are so sore from working them out that some much needed rest in store for me.....

and before I FORGET.....TOMORROW IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF MY LIFE.....I OFFICIALLY QUIT SMOKING TOMORROW......

not2fun
Good morning all....

Well, this morning is going ok....I did wake up in a angry mood, which is so very different from the hurt and pain I used to wake up to....but I am working on changing that....I do have to wonder if it is the Chantix. It did say that "agitation" is a side-effect.

Now, the NO SMOKING is going well. I do have to say I do not have ANY physical urge to smoke, which is GREAT......as far as the pychological, I am not sure. Yeah, I think about it, more like a habit, but its weird, I think "nahhh...I actually really do not want one...."....totally different than any other time I have tried quitting.

Anyway, got lots to do today......and my legs are hurting today, so I got lots to catch up on.......

not2fun
Hi NOT,

Good for you...... It's hard to give up something that is addicting, isn't it?

wink
Not2... congratulations on the not smoking!! That is one of the best gifts you can give to yourself and your children. Yeah!! for you! Do whatever it takes to keep with it!

Sorry to read things aren't going so smoothly. Your in my thoughts and prayers.

HELLO Serenity.... How are YOU
Oh, crud, Not2.

Either he's in or out. This goes for you, too. You must be willing to lay down the law, in terms of what is acceptable to you, and ALSO be willing to abide by them yourself, no matter what. NO letting yourself fall back into old patterns. I'm so sorry to hear this. WH really does need to be living with you day in day out. This is not marriage.

It's not easy, guys, not one bit.

I really am sorry to hear this updated stuff.

I applaud you for quitting smoking, Not2. You WILL feel better in the end. I know I am so happy not to be constantly under the cigarrette's thumb.

DID Y0U ALL MISS ME????????


Yes I am back after my little bladder scare. Not quite healed, apparently, THAT takes time too....(rolley-eyes...), but at least I can do without the vicodine and can get around. Still some aches and pains, but I will get through them. WS is been kind and reminding me to take it easy, and him and the kids are doing their best to keep things in order,,,,though I think my kids are about done with all of that....lol.

As far as WS and I go. We are hanging in there. He's still foggy. But, he has been doing his part. I can't say I share some of his views, but his actions are going along way.....a long long way. Oh, he's messed up....and we've had some MAJOR miscommunication, but at least we are talking them out. I found out after reading "Love Busters" that I was reverting to some old habits....(because they ARE HARD TO BREAK....) and that my line of thinking sometimes gets in the way, but I am working on that. I have ALSO found out that my WS cannot READ my mind.....who knew???? wink.....and that my "EXPECTATIONS" are still getting in my way....so I still have area's to work on.
I know this is about me, but then again, it always was.

Anyway, other than that not too much to write. We did have some MAJOR MAJOR problems all at the same time all of my surgery stuff was going on, but we are at least working to resolve it.

Anyway, thanks for all the prayers and concerns everyone. I sure missed you all......

not2fun
Good to see you back again.

Do you mind me asking what the MAJOR, MAJOR problems were?
((((B))))

Good to see ya honey..... grin.....I've been reading some older threads lately and I love it when I see you and Mimi old posts on there...asking questions, knee deep in the same issues we all struggle with today. The women you all have become is such an inspiration.....


Problems you ask??? What problems????....jk

Well, in a summerized version, my WS and my family (mom,dad, brother and sister, well not her so much, she was actually playing peace maker this time around....) all end up in a HUGE HUGE fight while I was in the hospital. All concerning me, but I was in the middle and drugged up so I was not helping at all. It continued even after I got released and home for a couple of days.....it was really bad. In fact, issues are still not resolved between WS and family.....so that is the jist of it. I will go more into it later. Want to talk to WS before I do...because to be honest I would like some of the VETS opinions on this. I just want him to know before I do this.....

On a great note, WS and I had had some good talks yesterday(I think I already mentioned this I think...). We had a small issue last night and I didn't like how we had left things when he left. So instead of going everywhere else for advice, I called WS told what I was feeling and thinking and WE (yes that is a "WE" worked through it together....). It was so incrediably wonderful to finally get through something together. Without it getting blown out of proportion......

Oh.....and WS did something for me this weekend I have been dying to do. He power-washed the patio for me and all the furniture and he got all ready and opened for the summer. I am so incrediably thrilled about that. Now all I have to do is get some flowers in OUR pots and this 1 bed, and OUR patio will be complete..... grin.....

I do have a cute story about that....when WS started power-washing the patio, he went down by the end where my bedroom windows are and sprayed onto the pation "I heart U".....it was so cute and sweet....my DD11 got a kick out it....she had a big ol' grin and said that dad was goofy and that this was very surprising to see dad do something like this....the way she was smiling you would have thought the message was for her.

I love it that the kids are starting to see how special and great their dad can be. And that maybe, just maybe, their parents really can work through anything and that in the end.....love can survive and thrive. Plus, its is nice for them to not see us fighting/argueing/crying so much. Even though we tried very hard for them not to see all that went on, they saw and overheard enough, plus were very much effected by everything. My hope at this point is that through WS and my healing, they too will be healed......

ok.....gotta run...got loads to do today.....

not2fun
It is "MY" patio and "MY" pots or "OUR" patio and "OUR" flowerpots?
Originally Posted by mimi_here
It is "MY" patio and "MY" pots or "OUR" patio and "OUR" flowerpots?


Way to knock me around Mimi....thanks....will watch for THAT in the future....and its OUR PATIO and OUR POTS.... wink


thanks again for keeping ME on MY toes....lol
Good Good morning everyone.....


Wow, its kinda funny how Recoveryville keeps ya busy.

How are we doing??? Well, we are doing pretty well. I can't say we were ever in a "honeymoon" stage I have read about, but I think all that got messed up with his continual contact back when and my stupidity for not enforcing my boundaries sooner. Then we had the whole surgery thing...

Anyway, I still say this is a very nice period for us. We are communicating better than we have in years. And we are spending the 15 hrs a week, no problem. Meeting EN's??? yep.....advoiding LB's????....now that one is a little bit harder, for both of us.

It's kind of funny too, because if you read Dr. H's guide for Marital Recovery, the first rule is "Do not be the source of your spouse's unhappiness"....To me that would mean advoiding all LB's. Now, that doesn't mean you can express your concerns or complaints, but to do it in a loving way.

Anyway, we both struggle with area. Those pesky AO'S always foul me up. Now, for WS, he totally loves the whole EN concept. Always did, but the LB concept. Oh he likes it, but I do not think he really understands it. Anyway, he was always pretty good about meeting some of my EN's, its his LB's that get me. I guess we need to go over those.....and discuss them....

I will say, Recovery is much harder than I expected. Also, I didn't think about how real life goes on even during this period.

Like I said, we are communicating better. I am learning to speak what's on my mind (thanks for that 2x4 MImi.... ;)). I will say I do need to learn not to be too sensitive to things he says. I will say I also struggle BIG time with things he says.

By that I mean, he will say something totally innocent, but I have going through my mind "Is that something you did with BOW???" or "you like that because she did that for you???". I know that may not make sense, but its like I have a hard time getting around that whole time period. Plus I have to admit, I struggle with the whole "competition" thing.... sick....I know, I know, this is not a competion.

I have been trying to wake up every morning and asking myself which EN of WS am I meeting today???

I also repeat the EXPECTATION quote from KaylaAndy....you know...EXPECTATIONS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN PRE-MEDITATED RESENTMENT.....I still love that one...

WS is keeping up with NC. And he is doing all he can to ensure my security on this. Now, that doesn't mean I still worry from time to time, but I guess that would be normal.

Anyway, I gotta run because WS invited me to lunch..... grin
and then I'm going to get my hair done....(gotta keep up with the GODDESS thing KWIM....VERY VERY IMPORTANT TO WS).....

NOT2FUN
Not, sounds like you guys are right on course... bumps and all. I'm so happy for you. You are truly an MB success story!
Quote
I have going through my mind "Is that something you did with BOW???" or "you like that because she did that for you???".

I CONTINUE to THINK this very same stuff from time to time...

I've had to ACCEPT that this has been so DEVASTATING and LIFE-CHANGING that parts of it MAY NEVER GO AWAY...

The key is to FILL UP THE BANK with enough GREATNESS that that MINOR, MINOR STINKIN' THINKIN' won't matter a bit...

As Mariah would say: You can just "SHAKE IT OFF"....
Originally Posted by mimi_here
Quote
I have going through my mind "Is that something you did with BOW???" or "you like that because she did that for you???".

I CONTINUE to THINK this very same stuff from time to time...

I've had to ACCEPT that this has been so DEVASTATING and LIFE-CHANGING that parts of it MAY NEVER GO AWAY...

The key is to FILL UP THE BANK with enough GREATNESS that that MINOR, MINOR STINKIN' THINKIN' won't matter a bit...

As Mariah would say: You can just "SHAKE IT OFF"....

Me too. In fact nowadays, if my H knows there is a possibility that I could think like this, a lot of times he'll back up and try to clarify if he sees me hesitate (no, PM I've never been there, or I've never done that with anyone else, etc.). I guess because we've been married for so long, we can pretty much guess what the other is thinking under certain circumstances. Not all the time, but a lot of the time.
What you've got to GET is that your REAL HUSBAND does LOVE you...and DEEPLY REGRETS the WAYWARDNESS in him...

I had to GET this...

Not2...more of the WAYWARD...MAY..be still PRESENT with your HUSBAND...but try to IGNORE that part of HIM...FOCUS on the REALNESS of the REAL HUSBAND...
Originally Posted by mimi_here
What you've got to GET is that your REAL HUSBAND does LOVE you...and DEEPLY REGRETS the WAYWARDNESS in him...

I had to GET this...

Not2...more of the WAYWARD...MAY..be still PRESENT with your HUSBAND...but try to IGNORE that part of HIM...FOCUS on the REALNESS of the REAL HUSBAND...



HEY Girls,]

Thanks....

Yes Mimi, I know my HUSBAND loves me.....but that is hard to sometimes realize, especially when thoughts of A come into the brain.....


and yes, the WAYWARD is still there, but am seeing more and more of the H all the time. And THAT is what I am focusing on, or at least trying to.....


I will say, we still cannot talk about the A. It is just too hard and painful....I end up way too angry about it, which I know is just my pain coming out. I have slipped from time to time on this, and to be honest, is doesn't do either of us any good....( I get angry, he starts justifying again, and then it just turns into a fight...not healthy...for us at this point...).

Anyway, no it hasn't been easy, but we are taking healthier steps to build this M up....I am very hopeful....

not2fun


ps...I will have to say, I do wish that there were more older threads on recovery (the actual process...). If you all know of any, let me know....
Sounds almost EXACTLY like OUR RECOVERY and we're still going STRONG... grin
Good evening all.....

I have debated for a day and a half about whether or not to post this. I'm done with that....so here's the sitch as it stands....and to be honest I am not so sure what to do about it....

Yesterday, I was in WS email and found out that he went ahead and did business with the BOW'S company...(she worked for a company that did mailers for him...). Now this is a MAJOR boundary that has been crossed. He was not to do business with that company any more.

I knew he was sending out mailers and in fact he told me that he had placed this orde with another company. Come to find out I was wrong.

Now, he told me he didn't have any contact with her through this transaction and that he did it because they were offering a good deal that he couldn't afford to pass up (since we are very low on cash at this point...and he needs to do the mailers to get his business going again...) plus he still had credits to use up from last year.

Of course, I could care less about all the reasons he did, what I DO care about is that he DID do it......

Now I am in a quandery as to what to do???

I mean, if or when the WS crosses one of the conditions of R, what does the BS do??

Its not like he is a child and I can spank him or ground him, but yet the stupid crap like this just keeps on coming.....

anyway, what to do, what to do????

not2fun
Not2,

If you set up boundaries properly, you know the answer to this question. Boundaries mean nothing without their trusty counterpart, the consequences of crossing them.

So, with that being said, what were the consequences of continued contact?

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It SUX

((Not2))
hmmm....somehow I think I missed that step. Consequences????
Explain a little further please....

not2fun
Originally Posted by silentlucidity
Not2,

If you set up boundaries properly, you know the answer to this question. Boundaries mean nothing without their trusty counterpart, the consequences of crossing them.

So, with that being said, what were the consequences of continued contact?

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It SUX

((Not2))

you were editing when I was posting....lol

I didn't set up consequences I guess. Somehow I missed all of that......

So how do I fix that??? if in fact that is what I want to do at this point....

not2fun
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back. The boards suddenly slowed down.

Fortunately (and unfortunately) consequences are entirely necessary to protect yourself. This is not about making HIM DO ANYTHING. This is entirely about what is acceptable in your life and good for you.
Originally Posted by silentlucidity
This is not about making HIM DO ANYTHING. This is entirely about what is acceptable in your life and good for you.


Yeah,,,I know that (goodness gracious if I didn't learn but one thing here it is "I cannot MAKE him do anything..."). But this is not acceptable and of course I have all kinds of promises that it won't happen again and that it was a one time thing, but COME ON.....

like I said I am slightly upset and confused about the whole thing......

not2fun
I only say unfortunately, because this is a big sticking point for many. It is very difficult, initially, to fully enforce boundaries.


Anyone who truly is invested in something, does all they can to care for it. This goes for you investing in protecting yourself and your mariage, and your WH doing the same. It sounds like ONE of you is invested fully, and the other is sitting the bench. Can you guess which one? JMHO. Been there, unfortunately.

Boundaries must be firm right now, water-tight, no wiggle room.
Quote
But this is not acceptable

No magic bullet, Not2. One size doesn't fit all.
What is the consequence of continued contact? HE HID THIS FROM YOU. You say it's unacceptable. Unacceptable HOW? Is it really unacceptable if there is nothing to counter it?

Let's just take the STEPS approach first.

Step one after your boundary is crossed is what? Can the business model be changed? Can you move and take the business elsewhere, where there may be new opportunities with new collaboraters? What are you both willing to do to make this marriage work?

Yes, it is going back to square one, but square one isn't square, and it needs to be before moving on.

I sense you don't want to make him leave as a consequence, so how about asking him for renewed transparency in some form to make up for not telling you about the project? As in, from now on you have to see all his email history every day; something like that.
Not - ask him what he is willing to do for a consequence of a tremendous breach of trust just to save a buck...

Usually when you ask a child to choose his consequences for doing something really bad, the child comes up with consequences much worse than the parent would, because the child recognizes he's done wrong.

If your husband wants to just "not ever do it again" for his consequences, he's not sorry.

FYI
Originally Posted by silentlucidity
No magic bullet, Not2. One size doesn't fit all.
What is the consequence of continued contact? HE HID THIS FROM YOU. You say it's unacceptable. Unacceptable HOW? Is it really unacceptable if there is nothing to counter it?

SL,

Thank you....ok...lets tackle this...

ughhh.....I honestly just don't know where to start.

This one just really blew me out of the water.

Which part, the contact or hiding it from me, I don't know.

Ok, you asked can the business model be changed. Not necessarily how he gets business (through the mailers), but he can change companies. This was part of the agreement. My boundary.

Moving the business??? yes it can be moved, but THAT is not part of the problem. It has no factor in this what-so-ever. And heck, SL, he'll agree to whatever I say, doesn't mean he will do it though.....

not2fun
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Not - ask him what he is willing to do for a consequence of a tremendous breach of trust just to save a buck...

Usually when you ask a child to choose his consequences for doing something really bad, the child comes up with consequences much worse than the parent would, because the child recognizes he's done wrong.

If your husband wants to just "not ever do it again" for his consequences, he's not sorry.

FYI

Hey Kayla,

Nice to see ya honey, wish the circumstances were better though.

I actually like this idea. It takes the pressure off of me (man I am such a conflict-advoider... ;)). Actually, I want to tackle this head on, but I am just not sure where to go from here. I mean, I don't remember this being discussed much in SAA. I do know that DR. H says in NC has been broken then one must tighten up the lines of communication.

not2fun
What Kayla suggests is good. There MUST be consequences. They SHOULD be painful (not physically). It should NOT be easy to deal with. The offense is such that you are going close to or back to square one every time he does this.

I don't know if your WH is testing you or just being totally careless. Being totally careless is much scarier, IMO.
Mr. Not - since you read - I have some good "in the dog-house-trying-to-get-out" strategies for you.

First - fall on your sword - this was an intentional foul and you know it. You just thought you'd get away with it.

Second - Remember to yourself daily that you are trying to rebuild trust where the most vile breach of trust has occurred - how would you want to be treated by someone wanting to win you back over? Then do it. All of it. Over the top - and expect yourself to sustain that effort for two years, minimum. Then don't go breaching her trust again!!

Third - your on dog-house duty. Flowers, dinner. Sure. But address how you rationalized sneaking this one past the radar. And deal with that - openly, honestly and vulnerably - tell the whole dirty secret that you think Not isn't strong enough to tell you to get lost, that you take her forgiveness for granted, and how you expect her to hold the line on you because you don't think she will... And then tell her how you are going to hold the line on yourself - and who is going to be your kick*ss drill sergeant accountability partner - perhaps your accountant that you don't have a wink-wink-nod-nod agreement with??

Whatever it takes buddy. This is more than a personal foul - it's an intentional technical foul - and you know she could reasonably eject you from the game. So show her why she shouldn't with sincere, meek repentance!
Not,
Sorry that this happened. I would be so angry.

The only thing that occurs to me other than what others have written is that the consequence needs to involve Mr. Not's making his business totally transparent to you. All of it. The business can not and must not be a hiding place for any kind of secret.



Thanks for the replies guys.....

I have a lot of things rolling around in my head. You all are great with the support. I cannot tell you how much I really miss this place and the safe-haven that it was for me for so long......It really just bites sometimes....

not2fun
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
I would be so angry.

Actually, this time around I am more numb, which scares me more. Anger is there, but mostly just sadness at where this is at......

not2fun
Not - if you need to email me let me know.
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Not - if you need to email me let me know.

I did notify the mods once trying to exchange those, but I never got any response. I would like that.....not2fun
Not,

I'm grateful for your thread today and I loved Kayla's suggestion to Mr. Not.

I'm dealing with a MAJOR boundary crossing this week and just wanted to thank you for having the courage to post what you are going through for others to learn as well.

Take care.
Well, the courage is more of a desperate plea.... cry

Giving up this place as my safe-haven has been difficult for me....stupid MB for going down when it did.

Anyway, sorry to hear of your sitch. I would lend a helping hand, but as you can see, I need all the hands I can get..... crazy

not2fun
Good morning all....

Well, I would like to say we have worked out the problem completely but we haven't. Though I do have some things I would like to discuss with WS and will do that tonight.

On a good note though, I would like to tell you what WS did this weekend, which was a HUGE showcase of his growing love and care for me.

On sat, we had had a good day. Late in the afternoon, he was cleaning his motorcycle and I was cleaning the house up. I went and told WS that I was going to the store for some cleaning supplies. He had made the comment that we should have had my eyebrows done when we were at the mall earlier. I told him I would go do that now, since I had time (WS has a high need for PA. He knows exactly what he likes.....hence, he notices my eyebrows... :o)

Anyway, they were super busy at the mall, and I had to wait 45min. Well, when I got home, WS was gone. Almost as soon as I parked, he pulled in behind me. He was near frantic and worried.

Seems to be that he didn't hear me say I would go get my eyes done and when I was gone for so long he started to worry. Since my cell is broken, there was no way for him to get a hold of me. So he went to ALL the area stores where he thought I might be. He thought I might have gotten in an accident (or arrested...but that is ANOTHER story....) and was REALLY REALLY CONCERNED for me......He was very glad to see me ok......

It did put the start of our evening in a small damper, BUT after we got dressed and went to Hooters (UFC fights....this is becoming a ritual for us,,,,which we are BOTH loving...) it ended up being a FANTASTIC EVENING.....actually the whole day was great except for that little blip....


Now, isn't that some evidence of love and change???????


not2fun

Deal with the conflict avoider within - an astute financial manager/love bank account manager recognizes the huge withdrawal and doesn't ignore it.

Yes, it's great he's making deposits. Good - He needs to. And he would need to even if he hadn't made the humongous withdrawal blunder last week.

Now he's got to do more than make quality deposits.

A wise professional coach once told me that you must metaphorically disarm all booby traps and bombs up front. Otherwise, you can't control when they're going to blow up on you if they are ignored. Damaging ordinance does not simply go away. Just the slightest trigger and you could blow up everything you're trying to rebuild - or he could.

You cannot afford to be a conflict avoider about this!

It does sound GREAT, though!!
Along the lines of what Kayla was saying...

A lot of people get themselves into serious financial trouble because they spend money they don't have on stuff they don't need and end up in a hole. Most of these folks think the solution to their problem is to make more money. They change jobs, add a part time job or work extra overtime. Sometimes they work hard to get noticed and get a promotion that gives them a 300 dollar per month raise which they celebrate by taking on a 400 dollar per month car payment...The result is they end up further in debt.

As it applies to your situation...

Your husband is doing phenomenally well at making LB$ deposits. He's working overtime at filling your love bank up. And this is a good thing.

But what he needs to do more than anything else is to stop making withdrawals by being stupid. What he did last week was moronic at best. The fact that he did business with OW's company was really a doofus act on his part. But then he covered it up, lied to you about it and the tried to justify it after you found out.

So every time he lies, hides something from you, he is racking up debt. His solution so far is to work more at making more deposits to cover it. But their will come a time when your LB$ will be empty. His account will be bankrupt and no amount of hard work will pay off the debt.

The problem of course is how do YOU get HIM to STOP making stupid withdrawals? The answer is to stop letting him make payments on future debt until he has paid off his past debt. Cut off his credit! When he commits a Love Buster of any kind, call him on it at once. Until he stops borrowing against future deposits, the day will come when his account will be bankrupt.

And since we're talking about his account in your love bank here, it means that a day will come when you will no longer love him and will in fact hate him...

Then you will cancel his account and the bank will be closed to further deposits...He'll be history and you'll be gone...

So now we need to talk about boundary enforcements...

Mark
IMO, one of the main things for you to remember is that he will remain FOGGY for a long, long, time to come.

My H was not NORMAL for at least a year.

This is EARLY RECOVERY!!

To me, your situation remains very HOPEFUL and there is not MUCH cause for ALARM.

I agree to NOT avoid CONFLICT, to keep your EYES and EARS open and SPEAK YOUR TRUTH right away.

But, FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE because it is VERY POSITIVE.
Originally Posted by Mark1952
So now we need to talk about boundary enforcements...


I'm listening.....what are your suggestions???

This was not something I was prepared for......

not2fun
Not2,

Imagine a baseball game. The umpire calls a hitter out on a close called third strike. The batter turns around and glares at the umpire and the umpire ignores him.

The guy returns to the bench but then begins to heckle the umpire relentlessly. At first he is ignored, but it is becoming distracting and the umpire feels he must take action. So he takes off his face mask and glares at the guy in the dugout.

The heckling continues a while and the umpire eventually goes over to the dugout and warns the player and maybe his coach as well, telling the manager that he needs to keep his players under control. When the heckling continues, the umpire decides to throw the guy out of the game, but he might also toss the manager because he let his player continue after being warned.

But now suppose the guy comes out of the dugout and rushes the umpire when he is warned. He will likely be ejected at once at that point. He might also be fined by the team or maybe even the league and could even face suspension for a few days.

But if he charges the umpire with a bat in his hand, ready to inflict harm. He will be thrown out of the game, fined by the league and suspended for sure. If he actually attacks the umpire, he might be fined, suspended and maybe even banned from the game for life. He might also be brought up on criminal charges and face jail time.

And if the umpire were to die because of his attack, he could face the death penalty!

Each violation of our boundaries must be weighed as to how serious it is. If it was intended to do us harm, we might need a stronger reaction to it than if it was just an unthinking type of act by the violator.

But each infraction of the same boundary calls for escalating enforcement and higher consequences.

In marriage, the ultimate boundary enforcement is divorce. Right below that might be a separation and Plan B. But below that in order to give our spouse a willingness to make changes, we need to have other things we can do that show them that there are consequences to their actions without calling in the lawyers at the first sign of stepping over the line.

Since you spent a lot of time and energy trying to have a chance at recovery, I don't think divorce is your first line enforcement of his boundary violation. But maybe taking off for the afternoon and spending the day at the mall, maybe getting your nails done or just sitting in the bookstore reading would express your feelings in a stronger way than yelling and shouting and at the same time diffuse the battle that could ensue over trying to MAKE him see things your way. If he violates the same boundary again, maybe you can go visit friends or family without him for a day or the weekend. Subsequent violations can result in a separation for some defined time period (he can spend a week in a motel and not talk to you during that time) or eventually could end up in you filing for a legal separation until he "gets it."

For a boundary to be enforceable, it must be clearly defined. This must be done BEFORE it has been violated. It is usually a good idea to state the things you will do to enforce that boundary ahead of time as well.

If you haven't yet read either of these books, you might want to check into them...

Boundaries
Boundaries In Marriage

Both are by John Townsend and Henry Cloud and are available from New Life Ministries

Mark
Originally Posted by Mark1952
For a boundary to be enforceable, it must be clearly defined. This must be done BEFORE it has been violated. It is usually a good idea to state the things you will do to enforce that boundary ahead of time as well.

Mark,

Thanks for the clarification. That is what I was needing when I started the post on this infraction. Yes, my boundary was VERY CLEARLY defined. But not so much on what I would do to enforce them. Well, other than a D, which was is not what I would do in necessarily in all cases of crossing boundaries.

I have also found in R that I need certain boundaries that weren't in place or stated before. Either because a situation hadn't arisen before or things that were "acceptable" before are no longer "acceptable" (yes there was a situation earlier that had come up that didn't have anything to do with BOW, but with his assistant....pre-A I wouldn't thought much of certain things, now post-A certain things aren't.....KWIM???).

Like I said, this is a whole new ball game for us. The rules are different. But I am hoping that we will enjoy this game much much more.....

not2fun

ps....looks like I have more books to get.... wink
Not2,

Try your library first before you buy any more books. If I had purchased every book I wanted to read or that I thought would help over the last two years, my library would rival the one in our home town for numbers of books and the section on marriage, infidelity, boundaries and the like would be about 50% of it all.

Before all this began I read my Bible, books about the biblical topics, bible commentaries, fishing books, photography books, racing (technical type) books, gardening books...

I'm one of those that even reads soup can labels and cereal boxes. (Would that be all about cereal data?) and in the past two years most of my time has been spent reading Harley, Pittman, Grunzburg, Carder, Townsend and Cloud, Arterburn, Glass, Weiner-Davis, Yerkovich...

Still read my Bible though. It's what got me through the dark days of the beginning of it all...

Currently we're doing a series on finances called Financial Peace University from Dave Ramsey. Most of it is just a repeat of what I learned years ago, but now my wife is on board and she was the one who came up with the idea.

Now if I could just get her to actually complete FILSIL...

One good thing to come from all of this though is that our pastor is working with several couples using Dr Harley's materials and of course I have made some new friends, that I've never met in person, but maybe that'll happen some day. I also been able to help other people who have experienced the same thing and now I have something to say to them besides "I'm sorry..."

If you are going to buy just one of the two books, get the original Boundaries as it is applicable to much more than marriage. It can help at work, with neighbors and with the kids!

The other one probably applies more to your current situation, but the try at the library first.

Another book for you to look into is Lasting Love by Alistair Begg. See if you can get your husband to read it, especially the chapter on "Hedges." Our copy is autographed. We actually got to talk with Alistair for about 20 minutes one night about 5 months after D-day.

Mark
Originally Posted by Mark1952
Currently we're doing a series on finances called Financial Peace University from Dave Ramsey.

Cool! I'm taking that class right now. The Chaplin at the base is puting it on. The pastor at my church kept mentioning it every now and then, and by coincidence the chaplin offered the class on base about the same time.

I bought boundaries on CD and I just happend to have the book as well.

Sometimes I get inundated with reading material. For me, listening to a book on CD while i'm driving to work is a great way to kill two birds with one stone.
Originally Posted by Amazin
Originally Posted by Mark1952
Currently we're doing a series on finances called Financial Peace University from Dave Ramsey.

Cool! I'm taking that class right now. The Chaplin at the base is puting it on. The pastor at my church kept mentioning it every now and then, and by coincidence the chaplin offered the class on base about the same time.

I bought boundaries on CD and I just happend to have the book as well.

Sometimes I get inundated with reading material. For me, listening to a book on CD while i'm driving to work is a great way to kill two birds with one stone.


jeez Amazin,

Stop by my thread and not even a "hi" to me..... frown

fine, be that way..... wink

not2fun
Hey Mark,

I hear ya on the whole "marriage help" library. I am a very big reader myself....actually, I have finally gotten to read some fiction lately, which was a very nice break from all the "marriage help" stuff. I was reading so much there for awhile that it started to become confusing.....so I took a much needed break. I too need to finish FILSIL. I also should probably finish "The Dance of Anger".

Anywho, thanks again for the help. It's funny how you step in just at the right times for us....(that would be me and WS....).

Oh and BTW, how is the summer fishing going???? Good I hope...as long as the rain is keeping you away....

not2fun
Not,

I've been following along with your sitch and the experts are giving you some great advice. Mostly, I just wanted to ask "DO YOU EVER SLEEP?" sleep

Want2Stay

p.s. Don't you have laundry you should be doing? grin
Originally Posted by Want2Stay
Not,

I've been following along with your sitch and the experts are giving you some great advice. Mostly, I just wanted to ask "DO YOU EVER SLEEP?" sleep

Want2Stay

p.s. Don't you have laundry you should be doing? grin


Hey W2S....

I know you have been "following"...you have an awesome intel source, but I won't reveal who that is... wink

Sleep seems to be elusive these days. Has been since the surgery. Also, I think I have been trying so hard in R that only in the late of night does the pain of the A haunt me....I seem to do ok with it during the day and evening, but not when I SHOULD be sleeping.....That's ok for now, since I am on summer break... grin


and Laundry??? Well, since my "Laundry-boy" is MIA, yes I have LOADS to do...... laugh grin laugh

Not2fun
Originally Posted by not2fun
jeez Amazin,

Stop by my thread and not even a "hi" to me..... frown

fine, be that way..... wink

not2fun



Hi Not2fun grin

Sorry, I didn't mean to be a drive by poster or rude... I've just been busy, that's all.

I'll try and drop by more often. wink

Amazin.
Good afternoon folks.....

Well, I just wanted to let everyone know WS and I had an amazing talk last night. Seems like I am doing a good job at meeting some keys EN'S for him. I explained to him how HNHN helped me see "the light" on some of those needs. DS is still VERY hard for me to get though. I mean I get it, but I am not a "clean freak" if you will, so this one is a real struggle.....

Anyway, it was a great talk. We also talked about the A a little. It seems as though it began in a different way then what I had thought. I mean I was not totally way off base, but I was a little. It was enlightening. I still don't get it, but I do think that I probably never will. Maybe because a rational person cannot make sense of a irrational action. Even he doesn't quite understand himself. Maybe because he is slowly returning to "normal"???

Anyway, it did help a little. Left me with some questions, which I wrote down, but it was a very hard to hear what we did talk about so I will address those questions another day. Don't want to withdrawl too much now do we.

Anyway, nothing last night was over the top and in fact i was not in a most pleasant mood, BUT the night ended on a PERFECT note for both of us..... grin. Which put me in a great mood today and makes me hopeful once again......

It also makes me think these Harley folks sure know what they are talking about.... wink

not2fun
Nothing like finding your thread on Page 11....hmmm...is that a good sign or a bad sign???

Ok....what to do, what to do???

Man, those who say recovery will not be easy have it so incrediably right......it is hard. Luckily though, the good times do seem to help through the bad......

here's the current problem......

I went to WS condo today (yes he still has it even though he is hardly there....in fact the electric was turned off...). I have been doing my checking to see if in fact NC is in place and so far it seems it has.

Anyway, I went to his condo to see his mail and see if he has gotten anything recently from her in the mail. They (well she did anyway...) did send cards to each other occasionally. Anyway, I looked around because I knew he would not have left it laying around, and no I didn't find any, BUT I found a necklace.

Ok, time for a little refresher course.....

I had found WS CC bill with stuff bought on it back in DEc. (early days after Dday...). I had also found a receipt for an expensive necklace and earrings. At the time, he said he bought them for me, during a time he "thought" of reconcilling, but then I kept behaving poorly and he changed his mind and took it back (jewerly was paid with cash, VS stuff bought on CC).

Anyway, this jewerly came up often during everything, and I always got the same story.

So, last week, when I was at his office, I found the jewelry receipt again. It had no return receipt attached to it and I asked him again. Again, I got the same story.

Now, I will say everytime this subject came up, he kept saying "why is it important???" or "why are concentrating on the past, not concentrating on us...?"

So ANYWAY, I found the necklace tucked in his sock drawer with an extra key to his place. (oh yeah, in an email I found shortly after cday, he had asked her if she wanted her necklace back...). It was the exact same necklace that was purchased in Dec., no earrings were found though.

Anyway, I confronted him. Got more of the same stuff as before, even though I can take the necklace to the store and have them match it up to their protection plan.

Anyway, the point is, I am not nearly as upset about the necklace (hey, I knew it was not for me, I've known all along, and all his attempts to gaslight me on this failed......) as I am about the lying about it. I am not even upset he still had it (which I now have it.....not sure what to do with it, but that is not what I need to concentrate on right now....).

He does not understand why it is important to me to know the truth about these things. He wants it to stay in the past....he hates what he has done, and has come to dispise her, but he doesn't understand why this important to me......

I haven't asked anything new about the A. I really don't have any "new" questions to ask, but even if I did, I can't say I would believe him. Plus the hassle of asking and his hating of it......

so what to do????

not2fun
Originally Posted by not2fun
I haven't asked anything new about the A. I really don't have any "new" questions to ask, but even if I did, I can't say I would believe him. Plus the hassle of asking and his hating of it......

so what to do????

not2fun

He is not truly sorry and he does not emphathize with what you have been going through. If another affair opportunity presents itself, I wouldn't be surprised if he takes it.

Quote
He does not understand why it is important to me to know the truth about these things. He wants it to stay in the past....he hates what he has done, and has come to dispise her, but he doesn't understand why this important to me......

Remember: YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF.

The goal is NOT to get him to understand. That's a DJ. He has every right to his own viewpoint. If's it's IMPORTANT to you...IT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU....

SPEAK YOUR OWN TRUTH. That's your job.

"It's important to ME for you to ALWAYS tell me the truth".

Let him know how you YOU feel about it with NO EXPECTATION for him to UNDERSTAND.

Then, let him EXPLAIN, without YOUR presumptions, what his take on this particular issue is.

I had to learn this myself from a WISE WOMAN on this forum who taught me how to SPEAK MY OWN TRUTH.

AND..REMEMBER..he is still foggy..he will be a much different person in a month or so...




oh I know.....

And I did state my truths....

But what he's not getting is that I am not sure how much of this stuff I can kept taking (this isn't the first time around this crap....)....

And I know its not my job to MAKE him understand, but sometimes I feel that that day is closer and closer.....

not to mention having to continue to ACCEPT what has happened and what went on....the way he was....

which, I know you say is "evil doings", but let me tell you, the emails, the cards, all that affection crap that went into it, is not how is was with me. And when I would tell him about this (pre-A....) I got told to "accept" that this was not him, but YET he could do it for her???? When it was some of the same stuff I NEEDED????? Yet I was just to ACCEPT THIS, and I did????

Yes, this all has put me in a bad mood......

and I am tired of addressing this, and him telling me "how do you want our day to go???" because HE doesn't want to talk about this or because I don't believe his gaslighting. Seriously, we keep having to put this stuff on the backburner....and sometimes it is more than I can deal with.....

not2fun
No amount of TALKING or ARGUING about it is going to make the AFFAIR go away.

I thought he is being AFFECTIONATE with you, NOW?
Quote
we keep having to put this stuff on the backburner

What do you WANT?

I fully understand you being UPSET...but UPSET you will be.. for a LONG, LONG TIME...

He can't take it AWAY..

He can't go back NOW and make it not have happened...

All he can do is treat YOU the way that YOU want to be treated NOW...

I thought that was happening...
Quote
He is not truly sorry and he does not emphathize with what you have been going through. If another affair opportunity presents itself, I wouldn't be surprised if he takes it.

NOT:

You've not shared all the GREAT STUFF that your H has been doing...to EVIDENCE that he is SORRY...

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....

You might do well to ignore this latest reincarnation of poster TD.

Just saying..
Originally Posted by keepitreal
You might do well to ignore this latest reincarnation of poster TD.

Just saying..


not2fun
Originally Posted by mimi_here
What do you WANT?


What I want is for him to quit treating me like I am a stupid idiot that doesn't know anything. I had enough of that in the last 10 months. If something should surface about the A, just tell me the TRUTH....and don't lie about it. Also, DO NOT spin some stupid story that he thinks will make me "feel" better because it won't. Yes, I know I am hurt, I know it will take some time, I am doing my DARNEDEST to not bring it up all the time.......and I DON'T....but when something DOES come up, TREAT ME with the respect that I deserve......


Now, about his good stuff....

yes,, he has been doing wonderful. And actually he has changed LOADS.........(except when the A comes up, but even then there has been changes...)

He has spent tons of time with me....he is giving me hugs and kisses lots....he holds my hand, almost in a possessive way, when in public....we are having engaging conversations, and he tells me things that go on at work.....he is getting his business back to where it needs to be to pay the bills.......and he has opened up all area's of his life for me to see NC......he cooked me breakfast last week......he really has been attentive to me.....and he has shown me he is sorry, but he still cannot comprehend what I went through, and maybe he never truly can......

Oh, and he has been APPRICIATIVE of me when I meet HIS EN'S......

Hi Not,

Just wanted to stop by and say hi.

I'm Hoping, cheering and praying for you, your husband, your family and your marriage.

Amazin.

Quote
What I want is for him to quit treating me like I am a stupid idiot that doesn't know anything.

How does he TREAT you like a "stupid idiot"?

Quote
Also, DO NOT spin some stupid story that he thinks will make me "feel" better because it won't.

Did HE tell you that's WHY he does this? Ask him "WHY" he does this. And IF this is his reason, would you rather him to NOT CARE about your feelings. Maybe you need to HELP him to UNDERSTAND. Don't ASSUME that he does. Don't ASSUME what his reason is. Encourage him to TALK with you about this...how you TWO will handle such situations. Have a PLAN. Remember it is HURTFUL for him, too...NOT THE SAME as you...but HURTFUL to HIM, too...He's trying to figure out a way to HEAL himself just like you are in the process of HEALING...

Ahhh...RECOVERY..how difficult, difficult it is...

Quote
but when something DOES come up, TREAT ME with the respect that I deserve......

I'm liking that you are wanting this and are speaking up for yourself...WONDERFUL...

Quote
he has shown me he is sorry, but he still cannot comprehend what I went through, and maybe he never truly can......

What do you mean by "COMPREHEND" what you went through?

I'm trying to RELATE to what you are saying.

I think my H KNOWS that it was AWFUL, DEVASTATING, LIFE-CHANGING for me BUT now that I've learned to appreciate and understand how much he loves me, I know that if he GOES THERE and tries to FULLY "COMPREHEND"(I'm feelin' you now) and IMAGINE what it was like for me, that it is really PAINFUL for him. I see the UTTER PAIN AND DISGUST in his eyes...

Your H is likely too EARLY in the process of RECOVERY to GO THERE...

He's coming off a HIGH, Not...months of DRUG-INDUCED INSANITY...

TIME AND PATIENCE...

You guys are doing all the RIGHT THINGS for EARLY RECOVERY..spending FUN TIME together...

HANG IN THERE...HANG IN THERE....
Quote
What I want is for him to quit treating me like I am a stupid idiot that doesn't know anything.
How can he respect you if you don't respect yourself? Tell him what you need from him, tell him when it hurts that he could do things for her that he SAID he couldn't do for you, show him how you don't see the respect from him.
Quote
tell him when it hurts that he could do things for her that he SAID he couldn't do for you,

I AGREE that NOT needs to tell him how it hurts...

BUT the WS WILL DO DIFFERENT THINGS FOR THE OP...

The AFFAIR is a FANTASIZED DELUSION...

We.. the BETRAYED... THINK we want to be treated the SAME WAY...

We don't...

I certainly wouldn't want to be treated like a HO..used as a VESSEL...wined and dined in order to for him to use me to stroke his EGO..USED..the OP is USED and ABUSED and then LEFT when the FANTASY wears off and/or becomes REAL...

After all the WINING and DINING and ACADEMY AWARD PERFORMANCES by the INFIDELS, 9 times out of 10 (maybe inflated) the WS EVENTUALLY wants to return to the REAL LIFE..to the REAL SPOUSE who is REALLY LOVED and ADORED..and is not part of a DRUNKEN FANTASY LIFE...

Not, please keep in mind that the AFFAIR is an ADDICTION...

You want your REAL HUSBAND..after WITHDRAWAL..not the DRUNKEN LUNATIC that was WITH HER...

Well, that's what I have and what I wanted...

The OW may have had her little WINING and DINING but I HAVE HIM...HA...
Quote
We.. the BETRAYED... THINK we want to be treated the SAME WAY...
But she just got through saying that she asked him to do something pre-A, he said he couldn't, then she found out he did it for her. It WAS something she wanted.
She's talking about him being ROMANTIC and/or AFFECTIONATE with her..notice how he IS doing that NOW...

Quote
He has spent tons of time with me....he is giving me hugs and kisses lots....he holds my hand, almost in a possessive way, when in public....we are having engaging conversations, and he tells me things that go on at work.....he is getting his business back to where it needs to be to pay the bills.......and he has opened up all area's of his life for me to see NC......he cooked me breakfast last week......he really has been attentive to me.....and he has shown me he is sorry, but he still cannot comprehend what I went through, and maybe he never truly can......

Oh, and he has been APPRICIATIVE of me when I meet HIS EN'S......

Cat, I just happen to know 'cause NOT and I have been talking about this for awhile..

It's really gonna HELP her to FOCUS on the POSITIVE..not to DENY her pain BUT to FOCUS on the POSITIVE...

smile
Originally Posted by Amazin
Hi Not,

Just wanted to stop by and say hi.

I'm Hoping, cheering and praying for you, your husband, your family and your marriage.

Amazin.

Thanks hon....we can use all the prayers we can get....lol....and right back atcha.....


I will tell you, this road is even more difficult than the other. Not so much up and down stuff....but the resentment stuff....whew....VETS can tell us, but man I never knew....

BUT I will say it has all been good.....even the crappy stuff. Some of it we trying new ways to resolve our issues, so that is fun. I say fun, because it really amazes me how much better we come out of it....

Anyway, keep your spirits up...

not2fun
Originally Posted by mimi_here
Quote
tell him when it hurts that he could do things for her that he SAID he couldn't do for you,

I AGREE that NOT needs to tell him how it hurts...

BUT the WS WILL DO DIFFERENT THINGS FOR THE OP...

The AFFAIR is a FANTASIZED DELUSION...

We.. the BETRAYED... THINK we want to be treated the SAME WAY...

We don't...

I certainly wouldn't want to be treated like a HO..used as a VESSEL...wined and dined in order to for him to use me to stroke his EGO..USED..the OP is USED and ABUSED and then LEFT when the FANTASY wears off and/or becomes REAL...

After all the WINING and DINING and ACADEMY AWARD PERFORMANCES by the INFIDELS, 9 times out of 10 (maybe inflated) the WS EVENTUALLY wants to return to the REAL LIFE..to the REAL SPOUSE who is REALLY LOVED and ADORED..and is not part of a DRUNKEN FANTASY LIFE...

Not, please keep in mind that the AFFAIR is an ADDICTION...

You want your REAL HUSBAND..after WITHDRAWAL..not the DRUNKEN LUNATIC that was WITH HER...

Well, that's what I have and what I wanted...

The OW may have had her little WINING and DINING but I HAVE HIM...HA...


ok,,,,did ya all miss me????

Well, WS and I went to the mall today for some window shopping and lunch. It was nice and what we needed after the whole necklace crap. I think the mall is where we go to kind of get us back on track. We have many pleasant "recent" memories there.....

Anyway, Mimi and Cat you are both right......

No I do not want the WS. Yet, I do not want my "old" H back either. Remember, I was very open from the beginning that our M sucked. For BOTH of us. Neither of us had EN'S met for a VERY VERY LONG TIME....

Now, do I want him to do all the crap he did for her...HE77 no...

There are some things that kind of boggle my mind. BUT yet some of the things he did for her, he COULDN'T do for me because of money issues....he had just begun his business and it started thriving RIGHT before the A started.

Now about the card issue....let me clarify this....

Ok my H hardly ever gave cards, a waste of money according to him. He also did not like to RECEIVE them from me...for the same reason. The second to the last time I gave him one, he didn't acknowledge it and when I brought it up (I had put in his truck for him to get in the morning....) he just kinda mumble "thanks, but don't do that anymore. Its a waste of money."

Now, for me I LOVED getting them, but even more so I LOVED buying them for others. I did it all the time. After that, I was so hurt, I never did it again. And for the most part I stopped giving them as well. I know NOW that I should have told him in a calm but loving manner how his reaction made me feel and hurt me...but I didn't know then.

So, yes, it rather "bothers" me that they exchanged cards quite often. AND that he had a WHOLE stash of them for future use......I mean the long mushy kind....

Now, if he were to get me a card tomorrow, I probably would have a hard time with it.


Now, I think the hardest thing I am dealing with is all the words and expressions of love exchanged in the emails, tm's, and such. And I can only IMAGINE what it was like when they were together......

Anyway, that is something I TRULY AND DEARLY need (not sure which EN it falls under....). H was not like that with me rarely. To be honest, in the past few years (and he knows this) I have questioned his love for me......I know ACTION SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....but sometimes I NEED the words.....that's why I was so happy when he said he loved me when we were out riding 2 weeks ago......

Now, its funny this all came up because I asked WS if he was feeling "normal" yet. He asked what I meant. I said that he seems to be returning to his "old" self. He asked if that was a good thing or a bad thing. I kind of chuckled and said well, actually you seem to be returning to your "old" self, but with some added improvements.... laugh.....

And the respect thing, I get that also. Before all fo this, I did not have any respect for myself. I have gained that since all of this. And when it takes a dip or two I have a couple of things I know to do to help raise it......though I will say I sometimes wonder if I am sacrificing my self-respect in order to be with him. It also doesn't help that most of those that "were" close to me seem to have lost their respect for me.

But that is ok, because WS and I will get through this and have a better M than ever. Which is why I am doing this in the first place. I love this man. I have always loved him (even when it doesn't make sense.... ;)). I believe in him........and I believe that he is truly trying to do everything he can to get this right....

not2fun
oh.....

And I am "trying" to remember that he is an addict....

I am "trying" to remember the whole alien/drunk stuff....

I am "trying" to focus on the positive......really I am.....

and yes I wish this whole thing would just go away.....I am tired of cleaning up the "residue"....and I am tired of wondering whether or not they have broken NC....tired of wondering whether or not I am getting a "performance" or the real thing.....

And to be fair and honest....he is DOING his part. Has he messed up??? You betcha...(I am STILL upset over him using her company for mailers.....)..But he is trying really really hard. Even when I don't handle things right, he has been the one to come and offer the "white flag". To try and get it back on track....

And to be fair and honest....I have made many of my own mistakes during all of this. It would be UNFAIR for me to say otherwise......in fact, I myself have lied to him about smoking when I know FULL WELL the damage it causes.....

And I know that the reason he gaslights me of stuff is because of my LB's. Not because he is still in contact or because he is "pining" for her......Its my reactions.....and I am the one saying that...not him.....

I haven't had a good handle on the LB's lately.....I admit it....

not2fun
and NO I am not getting any sleep....its been a restless night for me.....


not2fun
Quote
Now, I think the hardest thing I am dealing with is all the words and expressions of love exchanged in the emails, tm's, and such. And I can only IMAGINE what it was like when they were together......

Anyway, that is something I TRULY AND DEARLY need (not sure which EN it falls under....). H was not like that with me rarely. To be honest, in the past few years (and he knows this) I have questioned his love for me......I know ACTION SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....but sometimes I NEED the words.....that's why I was so happy when he said he loved me when we were out riding 2 weeks ago......

Not, I understand this completely. One of the biggest hurts for me in early recovery was knowing that he wrote "love" letters to both OW while I had never received a single on during our 25 years of marriage! I cried and railed about this to my husband at first.

He said "Princess, I understand how this hurt you. But if I were to write you a letter now, after you've practically demanded one, it wouldn't be true because I would feel like I was being forced to do it. You wouldn't believe me. What good would that do?" I finally let it go and accepted that I had my husband back and that my "real" husband didn't write love letters.

Mimi is right though, those "words" that your H said, texted or wrote, were based on fantasy and were not honest. It was the same for the letters my H wrote.

By the way, I was wrong about my "real" husband. The husband that returned to me is a much better man but it didn't happen over night. It was about two years into recovery when my husband handed me a long hand-written "love" letter. I cried, because it was straight from his heart, not contrived, or based on a fantasy.

If you will just hang in there Not and be patient, everything that was "stolen" from you will be returned better than you ever expected.
Quote
If you will just hang in there Not and be patient, everything that was "stolen" from you will be returned better than you ever expected.

EXACTLY..this is what I THINK, too...
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
I finally let it go and accepted that I had my husband back and that my "real" husband didn't write love letters.

Hey Princess,

Thanks for the encouragement. And its good to see ya.... grin

I think I really struggle with this quote above. Mimi and I have talked about it at length.....me accepting him.

I find it hard to understand "why" I have to change things about me that were not "natural" for me persee and yet I am supposed to "accept" him. Some days I get it, some days I don't.

Now, no my WS was NEVER a love letter writer. EVER. Seriously. But as far as some of the things he did for her, many would consider "over-the-top". Well, I will say he has ALWAYS been this way, and I have reap the rewards of this MANY TIMES OVER. It is sometimes embarassing (but I do love it.... :D) during Xmas because he spoils me so bad......and when we were dating, he left me flowers and balloons in my car almost once a week. And he was only 18......

Now, let me tell you the most touching thing he has ever done for me.....

We had only gone on 1 date but we really like each other. We saw each other through my work so it wasn't like we hadn't seen each other, but we were still at the "trying to get to know each other, but like what we do know so far" stage. Anyway, one night I was leaving work and there was a piece of paper stuck in my windshield. I got it out and it was a Xmas (we started dating in Dec. My H can still tell you the date of our first date...) card that he had made for me. It was so sweet. It wasn't mushy or lovey-dovey, just plain sweet. Anyway, I still have that card and I attached a ornament hook to it and now it goes on our Xmas tree EVERY year (even this year....).

So, anyway, I know the romance is in him....and I have seen bits and pieces of it. And yes its a matter of patience....and what you said your H said was dead on....WS has said things like that many times in the past....

And right now we have concentrated more on just having fun and reconnecting....and I have to say we are more connected right now than we have been in years......

not2fun

Ps...Mimi....thanks girl. I know your my cheerleader (and butt-kicker.....)
Originally Posted by mimi_here
If you will just hang in there Not and be patient, everything that was "stolen" from you will be returned better than you ever expected.

[/quote]


I never looked at it this way.....this sums things up pretty well...I like this.....

not2fun
Good morning everyone......


Well, this has been a rough rough week for us. As life is getting back to "normal" around here, I find that that in its self is scary. WS is working hard to get his business back in shape. He's back to doing seminars, which is turning out well. He's also very busy with appointments, which is VERY good, because that is how he makes the money. I as very proud of his taking the reigns here to get that back in shape. It will probably take us the rest of the year to dig us out of the hole he got us in, BUT I have every confidence and faith he will do so.

Of course, with him finally getting a full work load on, it leaves us shorter on time for "us". Which has made me very nervous. This is how it started. That scares me. Now, I will conceded that WS is making good use of the time we DO have together. And it probably doesn't help that I am still on summer break, so I have loads more free time on my hands. We also spent SO much time together early on in recovery, that it is hard not to miss that.....But I will back at work in 2 1/2 weeks, so that will help me immensely.

We do well with the meeting EN'S part, but the LB'S....well they are much harder. I find I am ok with not doing those, until I get a few too many thrown my way. MC had educated us well on the EN'S, not so much the LB'S. I know more about those, but WS doesn't. I suppose it is time for us to look closer at those, as it seems at this time each deposit we make keeps getting withdrawn.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the weekend, as we have had an exceptionally busy week.

not2fun
Not,

Have you read FILSIL?

Do you own a copy?

Any chance your husband would read it with you?

The neat thing about FILSIL is that it lays out the Basic Concepts, then describes ENs, has you do the ENQ and share the results and sign off on agreeing to meet them for each other.

Next it addresses Love Busters and gives some practical help with how to do away with them.

Mark
Hey Mark,

It so good to hear from you.....

No I have not read that one. I started to, but didn't get past the first chapter. We got a copy of it when we went on that marriage retreat.

Would he read it with me??? I don't know, but it doesn't hurt to ask....maybe I will approach it tonight.

Like I said, we are doing well, but sometimes I find it hard to gauge....

WS mentioned my "expectations" being too high last night....isn't that a laugh...me with high expectations..... laugh

not2fun
He's RIGHT!! I was thinking the same thing before you said it.

Don't push him to read a book.

Continue to focus on enjoying each other.

It hasn't even been 3 months has it?

Full withdrawal...3 to 6 MONTHS!!
I won't push it, but I will ask if he is interested. Of course, I may set myself up for resentment by doing that. If he were to say No, I would see that as him not wanting to "work" on the M....need to change my POV on that...


NC will be 3 months on the 6th......


not2fun
TJ/

Mimi and Not and others? Could you guys please go over to Espirit's thread and help her out. Her FWH is HOME and she's about to give birth. She's trying to rush recovery big time and I think she could use some pointers. Thanks!

/TJ
You are NOWHERE in RECOVERY, NOT...

It's way too early to have ANY EXPECTATIONS...

My H did not finish WITHDRAWAL until 6 months..NOT NORMAL until a WHOLE YEAR...

Come on, Not..

You are having HIGH EXPECTATIONS...

ENJOY..ENJOY..GO FOR A RIDE..DON'T GIVE A FLYING FLIP...CLEAN HOUSE..ORGANIZE..

TAKE YOUR FOCUS OFF OF HIM..FOCUS ON YOURSELF!!
Quote
You are NOWHERE in RECOVERY, NOT...

It's way too early to have ANY EXPECTATIONS...

My H did not finish WITHDRAWAL until 6 months..NOT NORMAL until a WHOLE YEAR...

Come on, Not..

You are having HIGH EXPECTATIONS...

ENJOY..ENJOY..GO FOR A RIDE..DON'T GIVE A FLYING FLIP...CLEAN HOUSE..ORGANIZE..

TAKE YOUR FOCUS OFF OF HIM..FOCUS ON YOURSELF!!


Preach it Mimi! grin
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2032593&fpart=1


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074574&fpart=1


ok here are my first two posts. Mark told me many months ago how to supply the link, but I finally got around to it....(better late than never, eh Mark....). Anyway, the first one is actually my second thread and the second one is my beginning....if that doesn't confuse ya... crazy


not2fun
Good morning folks....

Well, I am posting an update. Things are going well. WS and I had a pretty good weekend. WE did have a "blimp" on friday, but all ended well. Sat was good and sunday was great.

WS bought me some shelves I was admiring at Costco. I saw them a couple of weeks ago. He had asked me about them, and I told him I really liked them. He asked me where I would put them and I told him of the place I had in mind. I never asked for them though. Actually, I have never asked for much of anything. WS will even attest to that. He said during the whole A mess, that he would never find someone as low-maintence as me.... grin. Anyway, he went and bought them for me and put them together THAT day. I love them to death......we are also going to get a chair and some lamps for the same room later this week....

We seem to be getting along well. I am continuing to improve on my DS skills.

The only problem we seem to have is his work and home life. He is spending many hours at work trying to get his business back in order (which is going well, he had a great month last month, his first full month back in the swing of things...). He's having a hard time juggling it all. I actually really feel for him. I on the other hand have to deal with my feelings of what his work does to me. I am trying to get better at expressing them without LBing. I don't think WS "understands" them, but as I keep being told, that is his problem to deal with, not mine. All I can do is let him know about it, its up to him to decide what to do about it......

WS got a motorcycle in May and that seems to help a lot in our R. We have spent lots of time on it, which is good. It is a RC need being meet, plus we get to be physically close, but yet not too much talking. Even though conversation falls high on my list, sometimes "not" talking is good too, since sometimes it leads to the dark place we are not ready to go to yet.... wink. So, all in all the motorcycle has really done a lot to bring us closer. I only wish now that I would have been more for it last year when he talked about getting it.


Now, we did have a bad thing happen to DD 14. I ask for prayers for her and the family. I really do not want to go into details, but hopefully this will serve to bring the family closer.....

Oh, and I did take a stand for my son against his Bball coach. Mimi, you would be proud.....Seems like Not found herself and voice in the A mess and I am not letting it go....lol...

Anywho, I don't have much else to report. Which, may be a good thing.....

not2fun
Good afternoon folks,

Well, the last few days have been much harder for me. Whether it is more anger and pain setting in or what I am not sure. Well, I do know that something happened unrelated to WS/A/M that is taking its toll.

A couple of weeks ago, DD14 spent the night at a friends house. Her friends 19 yrs old brother "touched" her. She did everything right. She went to the bathroom immediately and called me and her dad. We went to go get her and we called the police immediately. The case is going before the DA this week, so hopefully we will hear something this week.

It is hard to believe we are in this position AGAIN, but alas we are. We all seem to be handling it well this time around, only things get a little "murkier" this time around in the eye of the law. Seems the laws are a little different when the victim is 14 and the perp. is 19. This time around DD14 will be under much more scutiny as will the whole family (our home sitch in last few months will also not help, and if this goes very far, will probably be come more public.....ahhhh...another consequence of A's....). This is also a little harder to deal with, as we have known this family for years, the mom is my sis's best friend and my niece spent many nights at their house as well with the younger daughters. So, its a little messy.

Anyway, that stress does not help with all the "other" stress we have all been dealing with, but we will make it.

I have also been having a harder time dealing with the A and everything that went along with it. Especially the fogspeak and things said during. I know its all in the past and can't be undone. I know I need to look at what WS has been doing lately and all the good progress we have made, but it is still sometimes hard. Its weird though because sometimes when we do talk about it (which is NOT OFTEN....I am still too angry and hurt and keeping those pesky LB'S in line on this subject is still too hard) WS sometimes cannot remember thing he said or did during all of this. He even questioned MY remembering, but then when I point out that it is all on record here, he stops that.

I just find it strange that someone could be so cruel and mean, and yet not fully remember it. But then he also tell me he is not proud of those things, which may be why he doesn't remember some of them......who knows.

It is also hard to deal with such things and not take it out on WS. I do not want to do that. He has tried so very very hard to change and correct things between us. He still has a way to go, but I am positive that he will get there.

As far me, well, I am trying. I will admit some days are worse than others. Sometimes, I truly feel like giving up or not working on my changes, but then when I DO go that route, it does not help me feel any better. The fun of sifting through the ashes......

I know it will take time. On a good note, WS seems to be more accepting of MB and the Harley's methods. It probably helped that he did like the concept of EN's, LB's, and the Love Bank when they were presented to him during the A. He even mentioned buying his mom and dad HNHN and Love Busters last night.

I asked him to read the chapter in HNHN on Affection for me. He said he would so we will see.

All in all, things are going well. I still find old posts and threads on here that I hadn't seen before that help. Mel posted on DR. H's stance on complaints, which has helped me a lot lately. Pep posted on Starfish's explaination on Giver/Taker in marriages which REALLY SPOKE to me. Seems like my Giver has been really really bad in this M. Now if I can learn to let my Taker out but not so ragingly.... :RollieEyes:.......

Anyway, just an update....for those who still follow or wonder. I will say again that I had NO IDEA recovery was this hard. But then there are the moments and times that make it all worthwhile and make me most hopeful for the future.....

not2fun
Not,

You have discovered why Plan B becomes necessary...

At some point you have worked so hard to try to get to a chance at recovery only to find out that actual recovery is harder than ending the affair in most cases. Unless you have left something in the tank, entering recovery can end your hope instead of creating more.

So sorry to hear about DD. Hang in there and you and H cling together through this rather than pulling apart over it. I know that my getting sick did more to boost our recovery than any discussion we ever had. Let the trial bring you closer and make you (as in the plural) stronger.

Mark
Originally Posted by Mark1952
At some point you have worked so hard to try to get to a chance at recovery only to find out that actual recovery is harder than ending the affair in most cases.

Mark,

Hey there,,,,hows the fish biting?????...Yes, it seems like a newly found out BS does work so hard, thinking R will be a cake-walk compared to the A. And yes, I had NO idea R is harder than getting the A to end. Of course, then the BS has to deal with the fear of A resuming and whatnot, which that in itself can hinder R when the focus is set fully on that (BTDT....).

But, like I said the times that are good (and there have been many) does make it all worth-while..... laugh.....

And as far as DD, thanks. Yeah, it sucks, especially when we have BTDT and our M was already in shambles back then, BUT I think this time we are drawing closer together in spite of it. Last time WS withdrew from the turmoil and I looked everywhere else for support.....we handled it badly. I mean, we did do the best we could considering the circumstances, but this time around we are more aware of what can happen to US if we let this all consume us. Plus, things are different this time around. Its a lot to think about.

Anyway, my mood seems to be lifting. Mimi is so very good at letting me get the focus back onto me. She doesn't let me wallow too much..... :RollieEyes:. And she lends her wisdom in all of this stuff when I need it.

That being said, I did forget to mention something earlier. Lately, WS has been talking about fall. Now this may not seem like a big deal to some, but it is to me. In the past Fall has always been our favorite time of year together. We love the weather, the pumpkins, football, Halloween....just everything about it. And at this time every year, we would start talking anxiously about how we can't wait for it and what we want to do. We take the kids to Garden Ridge, look at the Halloween decorations, just everything about it.

Well, at this time last year, I started to get excited but WS didn't seem so. It bothered me but I chalked it up to work. I was especially excited because WS had worked so hard that summer and we had hardly ever seen him and was glad to finally get to a place where we could connect again.

Well, as you all know, that never happened. WS had withdrawn from me and the family completely by the time fall rolled around, and we didn't do ANY of the things we normally do. It was a very sad and frusterating time for me. And then of course, Nov. came and thus his A truly began (the EA side had started in Oct....).

Anyway, he is very excited about fall this year. He talk about it continuously and is making plans like crazy. This makes me so happy. Though I could let it all trigger me, but I am going to STAY IN THE MOMENT......I am just happy to be able to look forward to it.

We were talking about it the other day and going to the pumpkin patch (we go about 3 times during the season....) and I had told him that it will mean a lot to the kids, especially since we never went last year. He didn't remember that. I told we didn't and DD11 was especially upset with that. He looked kind of sad, sort of like he realized just how messed up things were back then and said not to worry, we will have a great time this year......and I for one am so looking forward to it..... grin....

Anyway, its nice to see WS returning to me bit by bit......and its nice to know WS has been seeing my changes as well.....

We will celebrate our 15yr. anniversary here in a few weeks and I personally am looking forward to starting off the NEXT 15yrs on the right foot....

not2fun
flirt
Oh man....I need help....

I am nearly in full panicked mode right now.....

Here's the low down......WS is going out of town tomorrow. Yes, not the best timing or sitch, but that's not the point right now. The point is....I knew I had my snooping radar in full throttle....If they were planning to "meet" on this trip, I would know for sure....How you say?? Easy...just call the BH.

So I called and talked to him yesterday. Nope, she's not going out of town (I never told him where...). Anyway, we had quite a conversation (our first one since March....).

Anyway, he just called and said that the COW called and told him she needed to go on a trip, where you say?? Yep, same place that WS is going....

What do I do???????????

I mean I am all messed up right now.

See, I trust NO ONE...not even her H. Who knows if he would make crap up just to get back at WS, yet then again why would HE do that??? (I just do not get messed up people.....) and further more, my WS knows I talked to COW's H yesterday, so IF they were planning this, she would KNOW that we talked (apparently he said he didn't tell her we talked....). So why would she even bother telling her H she needed to go out of town???

OH ME OH MY THE LIES.............

so....do I confront WS with the info that has come to me??? and how do I handle it???

Me joining him on this trip is not an option. I just returned to work this week, and I am on thin ice still from last year. This trip is NOT a required trip for WS. He does not necessarily need to go (its a conference...just a learning type seminar), though he has gone every year and all the agents he works with will be there....but it is not NECESSARY......

So, what, when and where do I go from here???

Need help immediately, as WS will be home soon.....

not2fun
If you didn't tell OWH where your H was going... how would he know where to tell you his WW was going if he wanted to just screw with you??

The fact that you didn't tell him where your H was going and he said his WW was going to the same place has my radar SCREAMING.

I don't know what to tell you what to do.

I guess start here:

If indeed, he had planned a meet up between him and OW...

would you still want to save the M at this point?

Or would that be the last straw?

Would it be back to plan B?

If indeed this is true... what does that mean to you? If it means it is immediately over, then I would find some way to find out if this is true without telling him you know... (not sure how)... and then just ditch him and run. And I don't think you'd be wrong in doing that at this point-- in fact, I'd probably advise that.

I think if you confront, he's gonna deny.

Are you SURE you didn't even INDICATE where your H might be going to OWH?

Can you send a friend to check it out?

Is this car-riding distance, or plane distance?

Have you talked to him about not going-- and how did he react to that?

Sorry, a lot of questions in a row. Most importantly, if he was planning on meeting up with OW-- what does that mean for your M?

One more: refresh my memory. Was OWH your ally through this before- or no?

((((N2F)))

Stay strong.

E.
TELL HIM THE TRUTH!! THAT YOU SPOKE WITH THE OWH AND WHAT HE TOLD YOU!!

LET YOUR HUSBAND CONVINCE YOU THAT IT'S A LIE IF IT IS....

IF HE IS TRULY REPENTANT, YOU WILL BE ON THE SAME TEAM...

AND HE WILL SAY HE'S SORRY THAT YOU ARE HAVING TO CONTINUE TO DOUBT HIM, ETC....

Quote
So, what, when and where do I go from here???

let him know if he goes, he can keep on going.

I also think you should assume he was going to meet her unless he proves otherwise.

If that is what he was doing, divorce him. You don't need this anymore.
Too many red flags.

I don't believe for a minute that OW's H is making this up.

Personally I would hire a PI in that town and check.

If you confront hubby, he will deny it.

I wonder what the OW told her hubby what the reason for the trip is?
Ahhh.....There's my peps.... wink


Well, I told WS about my conversation with COW'S H. Then I let him know that if he were to go on this trip, then I would be done. Ultimatium??? Selfish Demand??? I think Not....just a definition of my boundaries.....I did do this in a calm matter of fact tone....

I know some of you didn't think I should do this, BUT the truth of the matter is yes, I do not need this drama or chaos. I am not going through the hassle of just showing up or hiring a PI. I am past all of that. So, I let him know what was on the up and let him make his own choice. If he wants this marriage like he's been saying and even showing, then he could stay home. If he changed his mind or God-forbid still cake-eating, then he can go.

No he didn't take it well. Mostly because he hates the drama and he is still wanting this to all "go away". Thinks he is being punished, will lose money....basically all the same things I have heard before, BUT I stood my ground.

To me, yes, he is still foggy BUT his actions for the last 3 months have been much different than before.

Right now, he is out riding the motorcycle, getting his aggression out and cooling off. While I comptemplate how the next few days are going to be......

I do think that there hasn't been any contact though. He knew yesterday I talked to COW's H and surely they wouldn't have been so stupid as to think they could get away with this.....BUT then again, I have seen stupid done MANY times through all of this....anyway, its no longer my problem.

This burden has been lifted from my shoulders.....

not2fun
Originally Posted by mimi_here
IF HE IS TRULY REPENTANT, YOU WILL BE ON THE SAME TEAM...


Mimi,

You know that some days I doubt this. And I know that he is still foggy on occassion. But its like I told him, I do not trust her, I do not trust her H, and I do not trust him. All I can do is trust myself, which is funny because in all honesty, my gut has not been going off lately. Sure I was uneasy, but really no bells or whistles going off.

And this is where I am. I still want this M, I still want to work on it, BUT I can walk away at this point knowing I have done all I can.

He has done some great things. He has improved in certain area's. He's even been darn right amazing at times....but then this has been a MAJOR TRAUMA for me. And I can look at myself and say "good job".

May not get the outcome I wanted, but then I have learned you don't alway get what you want.......

He knows what is at stake. He may not like it.....he may not like the hassle this has brought on....but this is a consequence of the A.

Don't worry girlfriend....I am doing beautifully so far. I was actually more worried about everything coming out bad and RE-ACTING instead of acting. I didn't....I did GODDESSLY good.....

not2fun
The MAJOR TURNING POINT for US was when I STOOD UP just as you did...


I am so PROUD of YOU..

And HAPPY for YOU in finding YOURSELF...

You have GROWN soooo much...
Originally Posted by mimi_here
The MAJOR TURNING POINT for US was when I STOOD UP just as you did...


I am so PROUD of YOU..

And HAPPY for YOU in finding YOURSELF...

You have GROWN soooo much...

Thanks....that means a lot to me. Though, and you KNOW this, I still have A LOT of growing to do...... wink

I have to say, I feel better for handling it this way. I discussed with someone about "showing up" unannounced, BUT that is not what I wanted to do. I am not the police nor his warden.

I do feel for him. Like I said, I do think that there has been NC and he felt blindsided by this. BUT again, not my fault...just another consequence.

Yes, I felt like he was throwing a WS hissy-fit, but I think that was partly do to the fact he is still foggy but also because he was blindsided.

Personally.....I think she KNEW he was going to be there (long story.....)since this is an annual trip for him and she wanted to try to re-start this. Only she musta missed the message that I am way more smarter now than before.

I knew this trip was coming up and I knew where to get the best info. No need to check the hotel. No need for a PI. Just call her H.

Now, about COW'S H. Yes, there is a small chance is screwing with me to get back at WS. Cruel??? YES....but he would still like the chance to get at him. Can't say I blame him.

But again, this is all theory and right now, I DON'T CARE. I am concerned about MY marriage and what is happening today.....well and maybe tomorrow......but what was it I learned on here???

I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT HE DOES.........

it's all good.....but sometimes, dang these lessons are hard to remember...

not2fun
I have more to share but not much time TONIGHT...

BUT, I think at YOUR POINT in this, your APPROACH was the best...

STOPPING a FALSE RECOVERY..RIGHT IN THE TRACKS...
Good afternoon folks.....

Well, just an update for you all. WS cancelled his trip. Now, he is trying to get ME to go on it, because he really doesn't want to miss this conference. That still remains to be seen.....

oh, and COW sent me an email.....stupid stupid stupid COW....doesn't seem to have any more sense than a real cow...I may post it on here later,,...but right now I am kinda PO'ed about it....

Yes, she apologized.... :RollieEyes:, even she knows that doesn't help things... :RollieEyes:

Then she politely let me know she talked to her attorney and if I EVER do anything with those WONDERFUL pictures of her to cause her or her family any more harm, she will have me prosecuted and sue me.... :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes:......

Then she apologized again..... :RollieEyes:

Should I reply??? or just let it all go???....haven't quite thought it out. Part of me would like to, BUT then again she isn't worth the toilet paper I wipe my butt with..... puke

well, anyway, this is how it all went.

not2fun
She's not worth the first letter you would type to her.

Rise above her, don't bother answering (but don't put any stock in her silly threats either... what sort of pictures do you have that she's so concerned about?).

You don't want to start a p!ssing war with her-- which it sounds like she's trying to do.

You don't want her involved in your life in any way-- don't encourage it by responding. You and I both know that if you respond to her, she's gonna have to respond again (to have the last word).

Keep your head up-- as Mimi would say-- and just let it go.

Just imagine, she's probably checking her email every 5 minutes waiting for you to reply (she knows she got your goat with her email...)... don't give her that satisfaction.

You are better than her N2F. Don't stoop to her level and get into a p!ssing contest with her (even if that's not your intention, that's what she wants and is trying to steer you there...).

Don't respond. Doesn't sound like there's anything worth actually responding to in there. What could you possibly say to her? There's nothing more that needs to be said. Let your actions speak. Let your action (of not responding) tell her she's not even worth typing a single letter to her.

E.
I agree with not responding to her. That just gives her more power in your life. Just ignore her.
Quote
Then she politely let me know she talked to her attorney and if I EVER do anything with those WONDERFUL pictures of her to cause her or her family any more harm, she will have me prosecuted and sue me....

and she would most likely win.

She obviously has issues. Do you have the ability in your state to sue her for alienation of affection?
Quote
Part of me would like to, BUT then again she isn't worth the toilet paper I wipe my butt with.....

You said it.

Your better than she is...and you just know its gonna grind her that she gets NO response laugh
Quote
Then she politely let me know she talked to her attorney and if I EVER do anything with those WONDERFUL pictures of her to cause her or her family any more harm, she will have me prosecuted and sue me.... ......

Stooopid COW. Don't even bother replying to this nonsense. She must be really worried about being outed as the slut she is.
Quote
she isn't worth the toilet paper I wipe my butt with

How 'bout...

"She isn't worth the toilet paper I ALREADY wiped my butt with?" Because fresh toilet paper is VERY valuable, ya' know?

wink

Charlotte
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
Then she politely let me know she talked to her attorney and if I EVER do anything with those WONDERFUL pictures of her to cause her or her family any more harm, she will have me prosecuted and sue me.... ......

Stooopid COW. Don't even bother replying to this nonsense. She must be really worried about being outed as the slut she is.

She is very worried....exposure was never done on their end. Her H has kept this all private for them. Also, been told by her H and others in the past that she is a very VINDICTIVE person. Anyway, all this was brought on because evidently her H recorded our conversation (not necessarily buying that one either...) and I kind of freaked them out and they "perceived" this as threats. What their lawyer must of forgotten to tell them is that you can;t use that recording as evidence since it was done without my knowledge. And no, there is no AOA laws in Fl. Now, that being said, either she wanted to scare me a little (didn't...but did WS) OR she is trying to goad me into a pissing war so the threats would be documented somewhere. I don't know....don't care...not gonna play.....

Besides, two can do that especially since her H sent WS a threating email back in may.....and we still have it (can't say I blamed him though).

Personally, I think this is all messed up and stupid. OH, no, her H is not necessarily my "ally", since he recorded conversations between them from the time he was exposed to until the cruise.....and he knew about WS doing business with them again immediately, but yet he never told me.....so, no, he is not my ally...but we are also the only people who can truly tell the other about trips.....

Now, enough about them,....BECAUSE, they are not my concern. I have enough to deal with, without all of that. I hate that snooping and checking up on WS are all part of my life now......and I am at a bad stage anyway, so.....

not2fun
actaully, recording that conversation without your knowledge is a FELONY in Florida.
There's nothing illegal about posting pictures up on photobucket. wink Anything withing eyeshot of a camera that isn't kiddie pron, is protected in the first ammendment.

Now what someone else does with them is out of your control.

Hint, hint.
Who took the pictures? In most cases, that person owns the "copyright" per se and can do whatever they want with the pictures. She KNEW her pictures were being taken. Too bad so sad what becomes of them. Many people have tried unsuccessfully to sue for their photos being made public. Just ask the National Enquirer. grin
See http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2006-08-11-photography-rights_x.htm

IF the pictures show her in a compromising position (naked, having sex) and you release them, you will get sued and you will lose. There are a lot of cases that support this.

The National Inquirer has nothing to do with this as there is a different standard for celebrities.
Quote
IF the pictures show her in a compromising position (naked, having sex) and you release them, you will get sued and you will lose. There are a lot of cases that support this.

The National Inquirer has nothing to do with this as there is a different standard for celebrities.

I don't think Not intends to do any such thing so it's a moot point anyway.

BTW, MEDC I think you're wrong about the lawsuit and about the "different standard for celebrities".

I'd like to read the "lot of cases that support this." Are these court rulings on legal cases? I have a reason for asking. Can you point me to some references for this statement on another thread so we don't TJ Not's thread?
The victim of more than one FALSE RECOVERY, I know that they resulted from the OW coming after him. Steve Harley warned me. I didn't take him seriously enough. SHE WILL USE ANY MEANS NECESSARY TO COME AFTER HIM WITH THE DRUG...LIKE A DRUG DEALER..SHE HAS NOTHING TO LOSE (she thinks..already lost him) EVERYTHING TO GAIN...


So, I suspect she is UPSET that you blew HER PLAN. That's how come I was wanting you to ACT QUICKLY...

DO NOT RESPOND TO HER...

She wants to KEEP YOU ENGAGED..get HIM to CALL HER..

She is PANICKED..DESPERATE...looking for ANYHOW and ANYWAY..

It's up to you to continue to WAGE WAR AGAINST HER...

This is another BATTLE...that YOU have WON..and your husband is joining your team...

NO CONTACT FOR LIFE..NO CONTACT FOR LIFE..

She should not have access to your email..

CHANGE YOUR ADDRESS..but let ME know what it is first..LOL... wink

Luv ya...
Originally Posted by medc
actaully, recording that conversation without your knowledge is a FELONY in Florida.

That is good to know MEDC...thanks.... naughty naughty

not2fun
Good afternoon folks....

I will finish the rest of this story. I didn't mention it this morning because I needed to get to work and I didn't have the time.

She sent that email but SHE also broke contact yesterday with WS. She got a hold of him at work. WS told me right away, which was good, but I was upset because he engaged in words with her.....but she was pulling the whole lawsuit thing on him which put him in a panick he said. I told him we needed to change that number, notify all of his clients, order new cards, and that the next time she calls just hang up......I was actually proud that he told me.

Now it just sucks, because WD gets to start ALL OVER AGAIN. Hopefully this will not be as bad, especially since this whole thing is leaving a crappy taste in WS mouth.

He is still at home....the only thing bad about all of this is that he is still in a foggy wayward frame of mind. BUT his actions are showing his sincerety in all of this......like most WS, he just wishes it would all just go away......

Now, about the pictures. No I do not plan on ever using them. Yes, I was VERY stupid in telling the H my revenge idea's, but no, it has NEVER been my plan to use them.

Oh, and the pictures are not what you would see in Playboy, BUT you might in a Victoria Secrets Catalog. And SHE was the one who took them, and sent them to WS. I really don't care a hoot what the laws are, because like I said, not plans to use them, but it does give me pleasure that HER knowing that I HAVE them, scares the creepers outta her.

As for everything else, well, its all become a bunch of baloney and crap.....totally not going with the rebuilding of my marriage plan.....

And Mimi, I agree with you......of course, she does have her H and family to lose....but by the END of the whole mess, SHE was the one trying to keep it going and she LOST....(he did play a recording where she was BEGGING WS not to take me on that cruise ANYBODY BUT ME.... rotflmao).....

and I will change my addy...but the one she has is NOT the one YOU have.....and that one I am not changing.... wink

Anyway,,,,thanks all for the support and helping me keep my head on during this....it did have the means to get ugly....because in all honesty, it would really just come down to tit-for-tat....

not2fun

Posted By: gabagool Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/21/08 08:48 PM
I'm not a lawyer but I am pretty sure stars, politicians, ANY public figure is open to MUCH less privacy issues and CANNOT sue for the same things a private citizen can.

Posted By: medc Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/21/08 09:17 PM
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080229/NEWS/22231156/0/news

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317391,00.html

http://forum.freeadvice.com/other-c...rnet-without-consent-illegal-232946.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-6887864.html

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:oVQkbMcDQqQJ:www.mtstandard.com/articles/2008/05/21/state/hjjbjehjhghaih.txt+felony+stalking+nude+photos&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

as per a detective friend here, harassment charges are a given...cyberstalking is most likely.

Then there are the civil issues...which would be big.

I haven't had time to read all through these cases...
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/22/08 01:55 PM
Quote
it does give me pleasure that HER knowing that I HAVE them, scares the creepers outta her.

Is it totally wrong of me to adore you for that line?

kiss
Posted By: not2fun Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/22/08 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Dealan-de
Quote
it does give me pleasure that HER knowing that I HAVE them, scares the creepers outta her.

Is it totally wrong of me to adore you for that line?

kiss

not any more wrong of me for having normal human emotions and anger towards her.....right back atcha babe...... kiss

not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/22/08 06:26 PM
Good afternoon folks....

Well here's an update on the latest and LAST developement.....

We are BOTH going to the conference. Actually, WS is there right now. I stood my ground, but he deseprately wanted to go. And said he would find the babysitter for the kids to make it possible for me to go....and he did all the work. I did miss the first day (yesterday) but got out there in time for the start of todays classes. I couldn't join him as I needed to still work today, but am getting ready to leave for the airport now.....

We put some EP'S in place for the time I am not there (his uncle who was super supportive of me during all of this, even helped ID her for me in the end....) and all is good.

So, after a horrible week, we get a nice relaxing (for me anyway.... ;)) get-away weekend, which will help us get back on track. Honestly, I should insisted on going to begin with, and this was a MAJOR lesson on how important it is to not veer from the MB recovery path.....you just can't get around any of it....

So, here is to a HAPPY HAPPY ENDING.....AGAIN..... flirt

not2fun

ps....B, I need to borrow the "shoes" again.....
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/22/08 07:26 PM
Quote
And said he would find the babysitter for the kids to make it possible for me to go....and he did all the work.

faint

Can I get a bottle of whatever you're puttin' in his dinner?
Posted By: not2fun Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/25/08 07:31 PM
Good afternoon folks,

Well, I am back.....It was wonderful. WS was great the whole time and we had a lot of fun. Though, I have to say, AZ is HOT.....and I hate hot.

Anyway, there were no cow spottings and my "sources" told me she hadn't been there, so all was on the up and up.....

Sat. was great as WS and a group of agents decided to skip the last day of the seminar and rent Harley's instead. We took a day trip up to see the Grand Canyon, which WS and I had never been to. We rode through Sedona and Prescott as well, and the sights were absolutely breathtaking. It was amazing. I loved every moment of it......and it was a good way for WS and I to get back on track....

Anyway, things are going better between us. We seemed to have survived the drama of last week, which is good. Plus we made it through all that with some POJA action going on, which is real good....

not2fun
Quote
Sat. was great as WS and a group of agents decided to skip the last day of the seminar and rent Harley's instead. We took a day trip up to see the Grand Canyon, which WS and I had never been to. We rode through Sedona and Prescott as well, and the sights were absolutely breathtaking. It was amazing. I loved every moment of it......and it was a good way for WS and I to get back on track....

This is great! You're not only building NEW wonderful memories (Harleys, I'm soooo jealous!) but you're getting a glimpse of that better than ever marriage everyone talks about on MB. hurray

Edited to add: Oh, and BTW... don't cha think it's symbolic that you were riding "Harleys"? smile
Posted By: not2fun Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/25/08 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Edited to add: Oh, and BTW... don't cha think it's symbolic that you were riding "Harleys"? smile


Hey Princess,

HMMMmmmmmmmm....symbolic you say???..... think

Maybe....But then again, what does that say for our bike, which is a Big Dog???.....


And yes, this is something we will remember forever.....of course, I did forget to mention about the rain storm we got caught in after leaving the canyon. It to be raining so hard, we pulled over, only to find out it was also HAILING......so we all scrambled under this little Charlie Brown pine tree.....it was rather kind of funny.....but part of the experience.... laugh.
I wouldn't have traded it for the world....even the hail....

not2fun
Quote
Maybe....But then again, what does that say for our bike, which is a Big Dog???.....

Well I say if you stick with the "Big Dog Harley" principles, your marriage has a great chance of recovery! dance2
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/25/08 11:35 PM
Quote
AZ is HOT.....and I hate hot.
But it's a DRY hot...

That's what folks tell me anyway. grin

Mark
Posted By: not2fun Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 08/25/08 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
But it's a DRY hot...


:RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes:.....that's MY thoughts on the "dry heat"....besides, did you miss the part about us riding in the rain and hail????......


not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/06/08 06:06 PM
Yep that's right folks.....NOT GOES DARK.....

I'm now a BRUNETTE.......


rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

OK, thats was funny....fooled ya all didn't I???

Seriously, I did go brunette. Never been before. Quite a change....not sure I am diggin it though...I will wait a little bit to see if it will stay around, but I am not thinking so....but we will see.....

WS, well he says he likes it, but my kiddies HATE it. Oh well, nothing wrong with trying something new out, and its only hair. I can change it again down the road.

As far as updates, well I still get hung up on some of the "old" things. My "expectations" got the best of me the other day.....which thankfully WS helped me out of.

WS and I celebrated our 15th anniversary Thursday. Kinda funny, since just a short time ago, WS said that 15 was a good round number for us to end on....Well, it looks like the "end" is nowhere in sight....

As for me and my personal journey through this, I am signing up for kickboxing classes on Monday. I hope that this will help me to release all the anger and hurt of all this. I think that BS's are sometimes afraid to let this anger go. Sort of like it has become such a part of us and so ingrained, we aren't sure we want to let it go. We know we don't like it, but not knowing the alternative is scary. I know it is for me.

Also, since learning more about depression (depression being anger turned inward) it scares me A LOT to let it go, because it scares me that it will become internalized again, and that is not a place I ever want to re-visit. So, I think I keep my anger on the outside so it won't go back inside.....

But that is not helping me heal nor doing any good for our recovery......

I do know that this will not last forever. I told WS yesterday, that I hardly think of DD14 situation 5 yrs ago, and that when I do think about it, the pain of that time does not come. No, that doesn't mean that it doesn't make me sad or mad that it happened, but that it just doesn't affect me like it did then....and I hope and pray that this will be the same way....

Anyway, haven't been around as much, since I started back at work. I also haven't felt very "helpful" lately as the anger has been so raw lately.....But I still keep an eye out for those I have met along the way, and still like to update for time to time to let those who were so instrumental in helping me know what is going on.....and for the newbies to see that there is hope and that the Harley's DO know what they are talking about....

And COW??? Well, I haven't given her much thought lately either....though we still have to face what to do about Oct. business trip. WS says he isn't going (which is good....VERY GOOD...), but part of me feels like "she" wins if he doesn't go and he needs to be there more than "she" does....ughhhh....something I am not sure I want to address today...

Tonight we are off to Hooter's for the UFC fights. It has become our new ritual, which has been VERY VERY good for us......I've ended up loving fight night more than I ever did in the past....and then tomorrow is FOOTBALL.......yes, "our" fall is falling back into place, which is SO much better than the way it went last year.....

not2fun

Posted By: Amazin Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/06/08 06:28 PM
I was kinda wondering about you...

Glad to see you posted.
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/06/08 07:00 PM
Not,

So are you going to try flaming red next? wink

Or maybe green with purple tips? :MrEEk:

Good to hear from you... grin

I have great hope for your recovery. hurray

Mark
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/12/08 11:12 PM
So...

What color is it gonna be next?

:MrEEk:
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/13/08 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
So...

What color is it gonna be next?

:MrEEk:


Hey Mark....

How's the fish biting????.....

Color you ask.....

Well, I must admit I am not liking the brunette so much. But hey, I don't regret trying it out. I will be going back to blonde in 5 weeks.....I miss my golden locks too much, and even though my WS does like brunettes, he will admit I make a better blonde.....so there is where I am at.....

Thanks for asking though....

not2fun
Posted By: lildoggie Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/13/08 05:20 AM
Hey, Im blonde.
Best thing aobut it is cos Im not truely a natural blonde, Im not dumb.
duh. I think Im not anyway crazy
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/15/08 08:10 PM
There are only two blond jokes...




All the rest are true. stickout
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/15/08 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
There are only two blond jokes...




All the rest are true. stickout




:RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes:


Posted By: lildoggie Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/16/08 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
There are only two blond jokes...




All the rest are true. stickout

To quote my mother...

"someone's crusin' for a bruisin'"

naughty
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/17/08 11:39 PM
I MISS MY HAIR.........UGHHHHHHHHH... rant2 rant2 rant2



Good evening everybody....

Well, I don't have much to report. Well, other than I have been feeling rather bad lately. I am not sure if I am unhappy with myself and lack of progression on Plan A improvement, or if it is WS, or this whole A crap, or what. I'm hoping that it is more of a hormonal/vitamin deficiancy sort of thing and that the B12 shot I got today will help. I have been overly exhausted lately and the night sweats have been pretty bad....sooooooo hopefully the shot will help. Or at least give me a good enough pick-me-up to get back to my plan....

I do miss my hair. I really hate the brunette. I think 2 weeks is enough time to decide I don't like it. That's ok, in 3 weeks I can change it...until then maybe I will just continually wear the lovely cowboy hat WS bought me on the cruise..... grin.

Other than that, nothing too out of the ordinary. At the moment nothing is going on. I am still doing well at the PA stuff, doing better but can still improve on the DS stuff, and SF is going well...now the LB'S....well, that could improve drastically.

I find I am mostly still angry now. More about what went on during the A, things he did for her, things he said and did to me....the usual. I know it cannot be changed...I know it is not healthy to dwell on them...but those things still hurt. I think part of me is a little angry at myself....even though Ilove this man and want this M to work, I do think a Plan A sometimes wreaks havoc on the self-esteem and pride. I am glad I did it, I would do it again in a heart beat but sometimes that "doormat" feeling just does me in....

Oh, I did have a hard time a little yesterday. I "attempted" to get rid of the necklace. I am not happy with the prices that I am receiving for it, and a lot of places won't take it (stupid economy...). I am looking into ebay and maybe craiglist. All I know is that the thing needs to go. It is like a chain just dragging me down....Of course, then having to look at it just brought all those memories to the forfront and of course my anger at the whole thing surrounding this dang thing.

Actually, let me get this out.....

It ticks me off that she got this thing (and matching earrings and some VS crap) when they had only been together twice (in Dallas)....seriously....spread your legs twice and you receive diamonds??????.... grumble rant2 grumble rant2

I mean come on...I don't get jewerly every 2 times we do the deed.....

Not to mention...he had already been "caught" at that point (this was after I found the emails...)...

I know water under the bridge....it can't be undone now, but man some of this stuff really does hurt.

ok....well that's better...kind of....a little.... wink


Anywho, I read on here somewhere about a happily recovered spouse who stuggled a lot in that first year of recovery. She wanted to throw in the towel on some days even. That made me feel better...to know that these emotions are normal in recovery. That's what seems to be lacking here...being able to find what is normal emotions in Recovery....

not2fun

Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/17/08 11:53 PM
Actually, a quick question about this necklace thing.....

When I was trying to "unload" it yesterday, WS called. He could tell I was unhappy and I told him what was going on. I did make the comment "I'm just cleaning up your mess". Bad....bad.....BAD...

Anyway, WS offered to get "rid" of it for me. He would sell it and give the money to me. Should I take him up on this??? Part of me says yes, because it is such a turmoil for me, but then part of me says no, because I have a deep fear of him giving back to her somehow. I don't know why I have that fear considering he had it for months when he could have given it back to her and he didn't....He said I could have the money to do as I wish with.

We did scrabble a little over it, but WS wasn't having none of that. He apologized again for the A and the what it did to me, then DEMANDED that I go get a pedicure and not to come home until that was done or he would just send me back out. Can't complain there.....he is trying....hard. And I love him more and more for it......

So any opinions on the necklace?????.....

not2fun
Posted By: cinderella Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/18/08 02:33 PM
If this necklace is causing you so much distress, does it REALLY matter how much you get for it? What difference will the money make in your life? What difference will getting rid of it make?

If the issue is the money, keep seeking more.

If the issue is the necklace, don't worry about the money. Just find it a new owner.

Which is more important? Bucks in your purse? Not having that reminder around?
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/18/08 02:49 PM
Quote
So any opinions on the necklace?????.....

Who cares about the money? I personally would throw it in the river. It's tainted and I wouldn't want some unsuspecting woman to wear it not knowing the history. I know it's just a thing, but sometimes I wonder if "things" can carry or pass on evil stuff. Nah, probably not... but just in case. smile
Posted By: cinderella Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/18/08 02:59 PM
Precisely!

Not, do you covet the money? Do you want the money? Is the money the issue?

Or, is the issue the hostility you feel toward the necklace and its background.

If the issue is the money, that's one thing. Get all you can.

If the issue is the necklace and the betrayal it represents, get rid of the sucker. Sell it for whatever and then give the money to a good cause. Or, if you have the case in which the necklace came, consider donating it to an organization that can sell it as a fund-raiser.

You don't have to do the selling. You don't have to give it to h. You could give it to someone (either a person or an organization) where it would do some good.
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/18/08 04:05 PM
I say..TAKE CARE OF IT YOURSELF..by the MEANS that will give YOU the most JOY and PLEASURE...
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/18/08 08:48 PM
((((my girls))))

Thanks for the replies. Ok, at this point I hate what it represents. And it has become its own burden unto me. So, no, I don't care what I get for it at this point....

Cinders, I LOVE the charity idea. No I don't have the original case, BUT I bet they would take it anyway....I actually thought of selling it and then giving the money away, but you elimated the whole having to sell thing...THANKS... YOU DA GIRL... lashes

P, I know throw it in the river..Mel would have said flush it down the toilet (we've had this discussion before...not about this but about someone else who had a similiar problem). The only problem with that is my "money" conscience. Remember "Titanic"? Well, I think I am probably the ONLY female that didn't like that movie. ESPECIALLY THE ENDING....Why would she throw in the ocean?? Who would KNOWINGLY throw millions of dollars out to sea??? The granny HAD to have been off her rocker.....Anyway, this necklace is worth something ( sick), maybe not millions, but a few hundred, which the saver in me just can not do. I agree that it is yucky and the history of it is "tainted" BUT maybe, just maybe some lovely young lad will buy it for his blushing bride.... blush

Mimi, You and I have talked about this before. I agree to do something that will give me great joy. You suggested before to get myself something wonderful, but then I thought that I truly would not be able to enjoy it knowing it was bought with tainted money. At first this is route I thought I would go, sorta like he spent this money on her, I got it and I will spend it on me since that is where it SHOULD have been spent in the first place. Anyway, the idea of charity did come to me the other day when I had this and Cinders gave me a great idea to kill both these stones at once..... wink

So, I am off to find a charity to give this too.....it makes me feel better already.....

Thanks girls.....not2fun
Posted By: cinderella Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/19/08 01:44 PM
Lots of organizations have fund raisers. Find one and donate it. Get an appraial, maybe. And claim it as a charitable donation on your income tax.

(My son has gone to two different schools which have auction/fundraisers. It's a big ticket fundraiser for lots of schools around here. One year, one of the schools auctioned off a Suburban AND a Harley. One year they auctioned off a registered Labrador retriever and a custome built dog house - built to the buyers specifications. I think that school even had a diamond necklace one year.)
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/19/08 03:03 PM
Quote
Remember "Titanic"? Well, I think I am probably the ONLY female that didn't like that movie.

I HATED THE MOVIE, too!! Lots of different reasons, including my PHOBIA of DEEP WATER...I mean a REAL PHOBIA..Antyways...
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/19/08 06:28 PM
Mimi.....your my girl...."Titanic"= puke


Well, I am donating the necklace to a charity that helps raise guide dogs. Its actually not my favorite, BUT the do have a silent auction coming up, SOOOOOOO I tried them first since I knew my chances were pretty good.

And the best news of all?????

I get a tax dedution for the whole amount that he paid for it.....so something GOOD comes the charity and to me out of something that is soooooo wrong.....

anyway, thanks for the help all.....

On a good note, WS called yesterday and while we on the phone he got another call. It was another agent from around here who was having a crisis with the restaurant she was doing her seminar in. She asked WS to call COW'S company to hold her next order that she had just placed (this agent doesn't know anything about the A....) and WS told he was sorry but that he couldn't do that for her. He would help her some other way if he could but that he could not call COW'S company....so yeahhhhhhhhhh....WS keeping the NC and giving that priority over business and helping someone else out. I am sooooo very very happy.....

not2fun
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/19/08 06:30 PM
Quote
WS told he was sorry but that he couldn't do that for her. He would help her some other way if he could but that he could not call COW'S company....so yeahhhhhhhhhh....WS keeping the NC and giving that priority over business and helping someone else out. I am sooooo very very happy.....


hurray hurray
Posted By: lildoggie Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/19/08 06:34 PM
Quote
Remember "Titanic"? Well, I think I am probably the ONLY female that didn't like that movie. ESPECIALLY THE ENDING....Why would she throw in the ocean?? Who would KNOWINGLY throw millions of dollars out to sea???

I hated the movie because it was crap.
Posted By: suamico Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/19/08 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by lildoggie
Quote
Remember "Titanic"? Well, I think I am probably the ONLY female that didn't like that movie. ESPECIALLY THE ENDING....Why would she throw in the ocean?? Who would KNOWINGLY throw millions of dollars out to sea???

I hated the movie because it was crap.
Ok, I thought it was just me. I heard everyone talking about how great it was. I saw it a couple of years after it came out. I didn't think it was that great and it was a big let down after all the hype I heard.
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/22/08 11:44 PM
Good evening Folks,

I cannot believe all the women who didn't like "Titanic"..... shocked

And I thought I was the only one....my world is a little more crowded.... grin

Well, things are going okay here. No complaints (except about the hair....3 weeks and counting...) which in itself is good. I mean I still have rough days, though not nearly as often. It may be because I'm past the 6 month Dday angry mark, it may because NC has been in place as far as I can tell, or it could be that WS didn't do business with COW this time around just like he promised. Or maybe because he is making future plans with me and with us as a family....or it may be because of me....

Lets see, its been 10 months since my first Dday, when I instantly went on the "BS" affair diet. I lost 42 lbs, 5 of which I gained back after surgery in June, but for the most part still have kept it all off. I am still in my size 4 jeans and WS is still finding me quite sexy. I do feel like I am gaining some back, but the scales keep telling me different. I do teeter-totter between 3 pds, but for the most part it has stayed away. I think I softened up some and really need to get back to working out seriously. I know I wanted to sign up for some kick-boxing classes and I need to quit procrastinating and just do it......

I am still keeping up with my GODDESS routine. I have spent more money on clothes, make-up, hair cuts, pedi's and unmentionable's this year than I did in the last 5 yrs. alone. Maybe even 10. That my friends is sad....ESPECIALLY upon finding out that WS #1 EN is PA.....So it is THAT EN I keep in mind whenever I feel not so GODDESSY or when I want to slack off in that dept. I also keep in mind that this is what the first "change" WS noticed while he was visiting "Affairland".....

I think the most important thing I learned from the Harley's was the concept of EN'S and love banks. When it came to understanding my WS needs I just remember what DR. H said....

"A need is something that you think or fantasize about frequently...."

I'm sure that is not the quote totally and I can't remember where it was I read it, but it was when I read that and applied it to MY own needs, that the lightbulb came on and I finally got it.....(I applied it to my need for Conversation....I talk to myself in my head regularly.....heck, I have been "caught" having these conversations even... blush)

The area that I really grew in though was SF. My understanding of sex before the A, and what I was raised with and "thought" I knew....well, it was totally off base. WS was never able to explain it well enough for me to grasp the concept, but yet reading about that in HNHN....well, I got it...and man oh man, did I grieve. I grieved for my poor, poor WS and all that he missed, all that I had done...I grieved for myself in not FULLY understanding the gift he was giving me...the love he wanted to share....Anyway, I learned it well. I have changed my attitude about it 180*. I don't EVER turn him down (it was in DR. Schlessinger's "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husband's", that a man had written to her,,,"it is hard enough to be rejected when you are fully clothe, but it is DEVASTATING to be REJECTED while naked.."....OMG...I cannot imagine the pain and humiliation of that. So, lesson learned...). Mimi also helped to RE-ENFORCE my learning of that. SEx is way more important than I ever TRULY KNEW and understood. I also didn't understand enough about my self or my own body. Well, I take that back, I understood it, but was too shy and timid to talk about it or bring it up.....now I do. And WOW.....what a difference that makes.....WS always was able to push the right buttons, but now....... blush blush blush.....let's just leave it at that.....

And now for my check-up on DS......this has been my hardest struggle of them all.....I still struggle on a daily basis. And when I do I find myself repeating past bad behavior or trying to put the blame elsewhere, which does nobody any good. This will probably always be my biggest struggle. I know a lot of you can't understand this one.....I wish it were different. BUT I am committed to this change....and maybe possibly one day it will be conquered. WS has been helping me find "solutions" to solve this issue. Though it is a constant battle for us. This is the area where POJA could use some more practice.......

So, that is where things stand at the moment. I still am giving him affection....I do find that when I get down or think about everything, I do try and do something for WS (I know, I know,,,,,,he has the A and I do something nice.....). I have also learned on here that LOVE is an ACTION VERB. So, I find that during the times I DON'T want to LOVE my WS....those are the VERY times I NEED to love my WS......

And don't worry all, he is doing plenty for me, I just wanted this post to be about me and what I am doing for our recovery and how I am fairing on my self-improvements that I start oh so very long ago.....

not2fun


ps...I forgot to mention....I gave WS all of my "evidence" of the A. All the cards I had confiscated, all my notes, everything. I did this because holding on to it was weighting me down, I learned this was something that bothered WS (he thought I was holding on to it for "payback" in court...), and I just really didn;t need it any more. I have what I really need at home.....anyway, WS threw it all away right then and there, in the garbage, which went out this morning....right where it all belonged......
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/23/08 12:03 AM
WONDERFUL!!!!

hug
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/23/08 12:15 AM
Quote
WONDERFUL!!!!
Ditto!

dance2
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/23/08 04:41 PM
Good morning folks....

Well, I was afraid this would happen. Every time I post about some good things, the next day seems to be bad.

No nothing happened, but for whatever reason I am just feeling lousy over everything....its still the anger I suppose. I am really quite tired of this emotion. I have wasted way too many years of my life on it and really don't want to waste any more.

It seems my anger at COW is there. I am not sure why. I do hate giving her any room in my head, but none-the-less there it is.

It may be due to the fact that I have been up since 3am with DD14. She hurt her wrist last night and I am getting ready to go get her x-rays....so that may be a lot of it. It may be that my sinuses are acting up, or it may be the fact that a weird number came up on WS phone over the weekend. I did ask him about it (not in an accousatory tone, BUT he knew what I wanted and why....). The explaination seemed okay, but it also not so solid....I don't know.

Anyway, who knows......anyway, the anger is there and I am just plain weary of it.....hmmmmm...someone else wanna carry this load for me????.....

not2fun
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/23/08 05:09 PM
ANGER at the OW was the LAST THING to go away for me, too...

I think it's cause I couldn't deal directly with HER...

I just couldn't get..still don't..how someone could be so knowingly CRUEL...to another person...
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/23/08 05:30 PM
Quote
I just couldn't get..still don't..how someone could be so knowingly CRUEL...to another person...

My H says it's "SELFISHNESS"..when I ask him about it...
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/23/08 07:04 PM
Thanks Mimi....

I am doing better. Nothing like a little "retail" therapy to help lighten the mood....btw, I got the CUTEST little mini skirt...(I don't do dresses and skirt EVER....I just don't have the legs for them...). It will go GREAT with the knee-length boots I bought over the weekend.... wink.....the outfit is one WS saw on an episode of friends, that I stored in the old brain for future use......hmmmm

OK, I do have a confession here.......

In the post last night, I had stated that I NEVER turn WS down for sex. That is not true. I did do this about 3 wks ago. Well, kind of. It was more of a reverting to my "old ways".....I went a little over board, WS got a little freaked out. I was upset. And he even said something to the effect of me going back to my old ways, which at the time instead of being a wake up call for me, just made me more defensive. Anyway, we got through the episode, and the next morning I thought about it and OMGOSH.......it was like an awakening for me. WS was right. It was like I had gone back to doing what I didn't want to be any more. I called him immediately and apologized profusely. I felt so HORRIBLE. He forgave me immediately and said for us to move on. Which, was VERY gracious of him.....

Anyway, it did show me how EASILY it is for one to "undo" their changes and how quickly one can revert back to the behavior that destroyed the M in the first place......

Anyway, I did want to confess.....didn't want to be misleading.....

not2fun


ps....I will touch more on "selfishness" later......
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/24/08 12:01 AM
Ok....gonna jot down a few "issues" I am having.....these are thoughts I have had "pop" into my head in the last week or so.....I just wanted to get them out so I can let them go...(because in some ways its a little misplaces....I think...)

Ok, I've had a little bit (a very little bit, but it is there none-the-less...) of anger towards the COW'S H. Is that normal or even okay????...Yes I realize he was an innocent victim, as I in all of this, and he was going crazy on what to do as I and I realize he didn't have MB....but......

Let me explain......

These are the facts as I know them, gathered from both the emails between WH and COW, also from information gathered from COW'S H himself.....so....

COW'S H "suspected" something was off with his wife in Dec. Began thinking along the lines of an A in late Dec./Jan. She moved out BRIEFLY (ok...more like overnight....) @ Jan 10. He REALLY began to believe their was an A going on in mid-Jan. Didn't find anything out concrete until COW tells him mid-March, day before I contacted him.....

Now, during this whole time he was doing his own version of Plan A, intermingled with MAJOR THREATS of telling the children, hiring a PI, and all basic LB's. But what gets me is he KNEW about the business plans before I did. He knew WS name, where he was from, ect. COW'S H also KNEW of all the times she came her except for the New Years Visit (he knew about the visit on Super Bowl weekend that got stretched out, Valentines Weekend, and that last and final weekend when I had caught them....). And he let her come anyway, even though he SUSPECTED an affair. But he never snooped. Never hired a PI, never did any of the things I learned about on here, never did ANY OF IT UNTILL.......after the truth came out.

THEN he put spyware on the computer, got a VAVR, and ordered all kinds of backround checks......heck, he even KNEW that NC was NOT established during all those weeks from the time I first talked to him up until the cruise.....(information he did not bother to share with me until I talked to him in Aug....).

So, I guess I am a little frusterated as to why he didn't do any of that back when he first suspected, especially when he was privvy to information I was not (remember, I never knew about her being in town, except Valentines weekend.....), which had he acted on some of this, the A may have been "exposed" much earlier.

I kind of feel like he dropped the ball and I also feel a little of no respect for him, because while he didn't "lie down and take it" persay, but he really didn't stand up for himself and his marriage......

ok...that's out. I know this is water under the bridge, and that the man was hurting and desperate and confused as I was. I also know he was like a fish without water, since he was going about this blindly. So in that aspect, I do feel for him......

I also know things can't be changed and that in a small way me getting to be the one to find them and expose them really re-inforced my own self-respect....

oh well.....

I hope none of the BH's here take this the wrong way. This is not meant to be a downer on COW'S H or any other BH, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have any similair thoughts about me and what I could have done better.....but sometimes when I think about how he knew she was here and at least could have hired a PI or come and busted them himself,,,,well.......and who knows, there may be some information or reasoning I don't know about, pieces of the puzzle that got lost never to be found.....

oh well......over and done dealt with.....affairs suck for ALL BETRAYED SPOUSES,.......

NOT2FUN
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/24/08 12:14 AM
POOR MAN didn't know about MBers...
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/24/08 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by mimi_here
POOR MAN didn't know about MBers...


I know,...I know...in some ways I really feel sorry for him, because even without this place I would have known what to do from reading SAA. ....and like I said, I am not real angry, in fact, angry may even be a little harsh. Upset maybe???

Like I said, I just wanted to get this down, because it was/is part of my experience in this and it came to mind a couple of times....

but no, the blame still lies squarely where it should....on the WS.....

not2fun

ps...Mimi....You should see my new outfit...It is SO girly girl.....WS is gonna be knocked out of his boots........it is TOTALLY KILLER..... flirt
Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/24/08 11:06 PM
Good evening folks.....

Well, Not is sick. Ughhhhh...I hate being sick.

Anyway, WS and I had the most incrediable talk last night. Actually, it was cute because he was going to be late last night due to a late seminar and he called on his way home to make sure I wasn't asleep yet. He told me to stay awake and that his day was turned around and he wanted to share some things with me.....this was VERY GOOD and not like WS at all, even Pre-A.

Anyway, we talked for 2 1/2 hrs. It was very good. He told me all kinds of things, such as his future business idea's, goals, and all of that....it was avery special bonding time for us....

I do want to mention that he did have a call from a BA that was pushing him to go on the trip next month, but WS couldn't be talked into it....I was very proud of him.

And it seems that WS had a big moment of guilt and remorse yesterday (this is not to say that he is not remorseful....but he doesn't like to dwell on it or even talk to me about it...).

All in all it was very good. I did feel bad for him though about the phone call and guilt stuff. Sort like I wanted to "fix it" for him, BUT that is not my job. I will be here though for when he needs me and to help him through it......

It's kind of funny because a certain someone on here gave me a big smack down last week on me NOT doing my part (Lala.....thanks girlfriend....see I LOVE YOU TOO..... ;)) and really just let me have it. At first of course I was mad, but then I realized she was right. Sooooo, I did what I needed to do, and have laid off the LB'S and really have worked hard to put my anger and resentment on hold, and its working......who knew... :RollieEyes:...

Not to say that it isn't there, but it is easier for BOTH of us to meet EN'S when we are not at odds with each other.

And because I have done that, I made the evironment "safe" for WS to come to me when he needs it, and like I would like him to do.....

Anyway, this was a HUGE step for us and I hope we continue on this path......

not2fun
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/25/08 02:41 AM
I want to know if he's seen the new outfit yet...

:MrEEk:

Mark
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/25/08 02:49 AM
Quote
I want to know if he's seen the new outfit yet...

Sounds like he mighta been rummaging around in her closet!! blush

Posted By: not2fun Re: NOT Goes Dark - 09/25/08 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
I want to know if he's seen the new outfit yet...

:MrEEk:

Mark


nope,,,,,I'm too sick....maybe this weekend...

not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Not slaughters the COW - 10/14/08 02:06 AM
Well, what can I say??? Am I a glutton for punishment??? Too addicted to the drama???? Maybe just unsure exactly how I am supposed to get through all of this......


So the lowdown.....yes I (no not WS but ME...... :o) had words with COW.....and for all of those wanting this opportunity...well it isn't all its cracked up to be....

To make a long story short, I was the one who called her work first. Was doing a check-up thing. WS was supposed to go out of town this morning. He called me at work this morning and decided at the last minute to not go. Now, I was okay with this trip and actually very supportive of WS going BUT when he called and cancelled this morning it was trigger/da ja vou city. It was just like his trip back in Jan when he kept calling and texting me from the plane not wanting to go but went anyway and it turned out that it wasn't the "business" trip I was told about. I turned out he went to her.

Anyway, I should have but didn't tell WS about the trigger but was just trying to support him this morning, all while going through the trigger on my own. Well, then he decided he would maybe go and so with all too much of this feeling like Jan, I decided to call her work to see if she would be theeation.

Well, I called and she answered, and I hung up. Didn't need to talk to her, just checking.......welllllll......

the stupid COW CALLED ME BACK!!!!!!!... puke

Yes I answered (it was an unmarked call, which I though would be a certain friend of mine who I had called moments before I called her.....oh, and I blocked out my own number of course....)

I know .....I should have hung up, but I was taken off guard.

Conversation of course didn't go well...she thought I wanted to talk to her since I called. I told her no, that I was just making sure she was where she is supposed to be, which was NO WHERE NEAR MY HUSBAND....to which she replied......

"I haven't bothered you in months. When are you going to let this go??? You too are holding on to this too much Not, its not healthy for you. If you keep doing this you will never heal from this or MOVE FORWARD....."... skeptical

Well, unfortunately I didn't take THAT TOO well.....

There was a few words exchanged and which she apologized again.... puke, which of course I told her that her need to release her guilt was not my problem and that if she were TRULY sorry she would stop trying to do that.

Anyway, it was stupid and dumb and REALLLY REALLY UPSET ME....

When I got home, WS saw how completely upset I was (upset doesn't quite cover it......) and was VERY WORRIED for me. He took me in his arms and held me, listened while I told him everything including why I triggered. He explained to me what he was going through this morning, which was NOTHING like it was in Jan.

Then he got very angry at HER ( hurray) for saying those things. I told him I was mostly upset because it seemed like SHE was trying to show how she was a better person than me......but it just made him dislike her more....he wanted to be my defender and protector..... blush

and yes, I am still struggling in this area. I know that its udderly ridiculous, BUT....I still stuggle.

Anyway, this is where things stand at the moment...and lessoned learned????.....be more open with WS on this stuff, though which is hard when we are still establing trust.....

not2fun
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/14/08 02:26 AM
OH MY!!
Posted By: medc Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/14/08 02:29 AM
please stop adding drama to your life. NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT.

The OW seems to be doing what SHE is supposed to do....now it is your turn.

Leave her alone.

Get to recovery.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/15/08 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by medc
please stop adding drama to your life. NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT.

The OW seems to be doing what SHE is supposed to do....now it is your turn.

Leave her alone.

Get to recovery.

MEDC,

I have to admit you made me mad with this post. I ALMOST posted back in anger, but did not. In fact 24 hrs later, I was STILL mad.....then I was talking to Lala, and she pointed out that YOU the one who continuosly talks about keeping your guard up, snoop, do EVERYTHING possible to get the truth....told me to stop. All of the sudden it was like WOW....I did try to argue with her out of it, but the hard-headed woman wouldn't let me "justify" my actions.

Anyway, when I came back and re-read you post, I noticed you did start off with "please" and the you were giving me the 2x4 I needed. Thank you......

I will say, you have "burned my butt" more times than I can count around here with you "straight talking", but YOU have also been most helpful to me when needed.....I am humbled.....I'm going back to recovery now.....

not2fun
Posted By: medc Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/15/08 08:34 PM
smile

You are most welcome.

I am only concerned with your happiness...today. If I felt that calling the OW would help you, I would say go for it.

I am glad you took the time to understand where I was coming from.

Onward and upward.

Again, thank you for your kind words.

Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/15/08 08:42 PM
Well, I admit it....I was wrong. I shouldn't have called, and instead talked to WS about how I was feeling. Even AFTER I called, I should have hung up when she called back instead of being baited into battle. And lastly, I should have blown my cool, because that made ME look foolish and not the good and kind person that I am.....

WS did end up on the trip. I sent him, with my blessing. He was great while he was gone, keeping in constant contact with me when possible, sending me great tm's, and loving and missing me with all that is within him. He was only gone for a day and a half.....

I'm not sure where my problem lies. I think that when things START go good and go on an upswing, I start to sabbatoge. How do I stop this???

For whatever reason, the life lessons I have learned from DR. H and you wonderful folks on here sometimes "elude" me. I have forgotten recently that I have a choice in all of this. I have the power to choose my own destiny. I am the one responsible for whether or not to let this eat me alive and consume me or the work through it and be happy. Somehow, recently, I forgot that. I was putting all my efforts and concentration on WS and him doing his part. Then I was dissecting each and every decision he made to see whether or not he truly wanted this....even though he has been EVIDENCING this EVERYDAY.....he has made remarkable strides, while I, seemed to be stuck in limbo. Which of course made me angry with him. Angry that HE was making the changes and doing what was necessary to work on this marriage and make it BEST it could be, while I seemed to muddling along.

Looking back, I realize how my attitude that marriages are NOT disposable didn't help this situation (not that I am advocating divorce...) but that I stayed in this marriage because I didn't believe in divorce, religious reasons wouldn't allow it, but I also didn't protect, honor or treat it as the special bond that it is. Ya sure, I never saught divorce, but I never saught to improve it either.......I took it for granted.

And now??? I think I tend to dwell on all of this, because I hate to look in the mirror and ADMIT the part I played. Oh sure, I have done that before, especially soon after dday, but I have forgotten.

I also forgot Marks wise words of "I can't make my WS be faithful"......I cannot control him, her, only myself. And so maybe the next lesson for me to learn is how to exercise "self-control".....

hmmmm...I think I rambled a little long today.....

not2fun
Posted By: lifeschoice Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/15/08 09:25 PM
Not,

I am glad you see the error is what you did. I was going to post a warning to you about contnuing contact with the OW. The law is a 2 way street and if she is holding to NC and you are not I believe she could file harassment charges if you don't leave her alone.

On a different board I use to post on a BS was actually arrested and had a RO filed against her by the FOW for harassing her. The FOW was trying to move on with her life, wanted to be left alone and the BS was breaking NC.

LC
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/15/08 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by medc
smile

You are most welcome.

I am only concerned with your happiness...today. If I felt that calling the OW would help you, I would say go for it.

I am glad you took the time to understand where I was coming from.

Onward and upward.

Again, thank you for your kind words.

MEDC,

Thanks... blush

WS said the same thing to me about my happiness....and the concern he has about what stuff like this does to me. It was a quite a "depositing" moment for me.

Do you see NOW why the "Be Still" thread works well for me???...I know you are not a fan of it, but for me, it helps calm me during the storm. Helps me to retain focus on the MOMENT....... wink

LC,

I thought of that. Though I am not very familiar with the laws on RO's and what one needs to produce in order to get one. If it was just her word, then she could probably get one. If she need to produce records, there wouldn't be any. I have never emailed her, called her, or anything during all of this. This was the first time, and I have an email that SHE wrote me, telling me to call her work every day if need be, to verify she was there.

Not saying I was right or anything, but it is not a harassment issue. But like I said, I don't know anything about the laws regarding that, nor do I really care, since it will not happen again anyway.

Thanks for looking out for me though......

not2fun
Posted By: Resonance Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/15/08 11:04 PM
Hey chickie!

I am glad that you are so open to suggestions, and are willing to listen and go inside yourself to make the changes necessary to help your recovery. THAT is the MOST important component of recovery. The more either person in a marriage plants his/her feet and says "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE!" the harder it is to pull thorugh and have a better marriage in the end. You have always been great about acknowledging the areas that need improvement and then following through.

Focus on the positive steps you have BOTH taken in this very difficult journey and you will continue to improve and succeed in recovery. Stop focusing on the past, and put your energy into the present and future and the kind of marriage you BOTH want now.

And you know I will continue to be there for you and open up a can of the butt whoop when needed! :twobyfour:

grin

Love ya, girl!

Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 10/21/08 09:58 PM
Good afternoon folks,

Well things have been on the go around here. Even with the little mess last week, we made it through okay. We had a wonderful weekend. We had a couple over for dinner Sat. We had never hung out with this couple before, though we have known each other for a long time (our oldest DD's have been in GS since they were 5. The dad of this girl and I went to HS together, and they have 2 other kids the around the same age as ours....). It was a lot of fun. This is a problem we had before. Not very many couple friends. He had his friends, I had mine. This was nice......

WS also surprised me with a trip to Chicago this coming weekend for my birthday. We will fly up sat. morning and will be going to the UFC fights that night...(that's right,,,,look for me behind Joe Rogan everyone.... rotflmao)....

Yesterday could have been bad, but I finally remembered ALL those lessons you all taught me. WS was having a bad day at work. He didn't want to talk about at the moment and I didn't take it personally. AND,....instead of worrying about it continuously, I kept on about my day, getting my work done (I did ask if there was anything I could do to make it better or anything he wanted done around the house, he requested a little work on the garage....I did it....), not calling him continuously, letting him fix his own problem, and then when he got home, he couldn't wait to see me and tell me what had happened and how his day went. It was a wonderful moment for me....

Later on, he asked me what my #1 need was. See, he didn't know. I told him once that he didn't know but was also not wanting to tell him what it was because it seems like such a "vain" need to me (admiration all....). Anyway, we discussed it. He was shocked to find out that's what it was. He really doesn't understand the need. I tried to explain as best as I could, then told him that he could read the chapter on it in HNHN. I understand him not understanding since I would have been the same way BEFORE all of this......so anyway, he told me he would work on this.....but to be patient since it doesn't come naturally to him....

And me???....well, I have been doing my share on working on this marriage myself. I still struggle with the anger, the hurt, and betrayal. There are even times I find myself thinking about the affair and how surreal it all was. I still struggle with understanding it at all. And that's okay. ... I am going back to my counselor this week. I pray that she will help guide me through the personal healing that I so desperately seek. This is the one area I really messed up when going through DD's situation. I don't want to end up where that all lead me to, so I am taking my personal responsiblity back.

Oh, and I am going back to blonde this week.....YEAH.... dance2

I miss it. What can I say....though it is only hair color, I felt sexier and more confident with my highlights, and I think I will feel more like "me". It was fun to try something new and now I will never have to wonder what I would have looked like, but its not for me.....

Anyway, just thought I'd give ya all a shoutout and an update.....I'm coming up on those year "anniversaries"....hard to believe that we are where we are today, especially when things seemed so hopeless....

not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/04/08 07:45 PM
Good afternoon all......

Well, I came back to the light. I got my highlights back and a totally new "do".....its shorter. I do love it, though learning to style it is hard.

I returned to my counselor. She was glad to see me and glad to hear about my progress so far, my having stalled and doing what I said I wouldn't do, and she was ESPECIALLY glad to hear how things were going with Jeremy and I. She said he is coming a very long way in how he deals with me and is feelings for me. Definately well on his way to earning his "F".

She also commented that I am right where I should be in dealing with this. Talked about this being up there with rape or loss of somebody and I am right on track. And now her and I will work together to continue my healing......

She wanted me to read "After the Affair", which I did buy, but couldn't get past pg. 4 because it made a lot of those feelings come to the surface. I am not good a working through those feelings in a good way, so that will be what I ask her tomorrow. She also had my get "Boundaries in Marriage", which I do love, but it is also a reflection on how much work I have to still do on myself......I know I do, but I do hate admitting that I do....He has some amazing stuff in there. I found out that in a lot of ways I have been immature and (sit down all....) I am very good at BLAMESHIFTING..... faint. Who knew????....I still as confused on some issues which I will try and post on later (I don't have the book with my notes in front of me at the moment...)

WH and I went to Chicago a couple of weeks ago, for my birthday. It was an amazing trip. The UFC fights were fantastic...Being there in person was just unbelievable. We decided we will have to one in Vegas soon. Anyway, the whole weekend was just great. Oh....and WS finally got to see me in my skirt... wink. I wore it to the fights.

As for me, well, I still stuggle constantly. I am finding that I when I am upset with something WS does, my brain IMMEDIATELY starts thinking of the A, sorta like I am already mad, so lets add some fuel to the fire. I have ask myself "what is it that I am really mad at???" and keep the focus there. Not easy by any great means. I also have been working on my sarcasism. It is a very concsious thing I have to do not to say the first biting thing that comes to mind sometimes. I did that this morning, it was hard...but the moment afterwards was good, because I was glad not to ruin WH's day.

I also am going to register for a photography class at the community college next semester. I am rather excited about this, though I'm not excited about taking up two nights during the week. This will eat into some of my time SOMEWHERE, and it worries me that it will end up being "our" time. Guess we will see.......

Well, that's the latest.

not2fun

Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/04/08 08:39 PM
Quote
I am finding that I when I am upset with something WS does, my brain IMMEDIATELY starts thinking of the A, sorta like I am already mad, so lets add some fuel to the fire. I have ask myself "what is it that I am really mad at???" and keep the focus there.

This is perfectly NORMAL and continues for awhile. Eventually it will ease up and you'll be able to flip that switch in about 2 seconds. Remember what everyone says about the six month mark? All that anger comes bubbling to the top. Watch for that.

You're right on course. Glad to see you're getting help too. That'll make things a LOT easier.
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/04/08 10:45 PM
Not,

You're gonna be a photog, huh?

That has been one of my passions for many years. I now work in digital but used 35mm, 6X6cm format and even 4X5 for many years (got my first 35mm SLR over 40 years ago.) For a long time my favorite subject was my wife.

So, are you going to be using silver or electrons? (film/paper or digital) If you're going to use film, I have three enlargers and a bunch of other stuff I don't use any more. Maybe you could print a few of my 5000 or so negatives that never got printed.

Might be able to point you to a couple of books on that subject as well. Just pick anything by Ansel Adams...He was my hero! cool

As for your progress: dance2 dance2 dance2 dance2

I might have to start using you as an example at this rate... grin

Or start coming to you with my problems. blush
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/05/08 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by Mark1954
As for your progress: dance2 dance2 dance2 dance2

I might have to start using you as an example at this rate... grin

Or start coming to you with my problems. blush


I would like to learn both. Soooooo far it seems to me that digital just doesn't give quite the quality that paper does. But then again, I have much much to learn. I am such a novice and beginner.....

As far as the dancing for my recovery??? Glad to hear someone can do it. Heck, just today, I asked WS if he was ready to give up???? This stuff is very very hard, and at times it is hard not to have my own pity party.....BUT I nailed down the feeling and decided to go the "Boundaries" way and OWN my hurt and pain. I had a good cry and felt better afterwards. I guess that during recovery I feel that I am supposed to push all those feelings away, which isn't healthy either. Sorta like a fine dance......don't be all whiny, weepy, sad, mad and angry BUT acknowledge that it is NORMAL to have them from time to time. If you don't, they'll just fester and probably end up in some big ol' LB fest, which ain't good either.....

not2fun

ps...any book recommendations would be great. You know me and my reading.....besides, I am fairly POSITIVE WS would love to see something other than an "Affair" book in my hands.... grin
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/05/08 10:12 PM
Quote
it seems to me that digital just doesn't give quite the quality that paper does.
You know, this might have been the case a few years ago, but with modern digital SLRs like the ones around now, that doesn't have to be true any more.

There are now DSLRs on the market with in excess of 20 M-pixels. Printed at 300 DPI that would let you make wallpaper for the living room.

Digital and film have a few things that are different, but not necessarily bad or things that can't be dealt with.

With film, the shadows tend to block up first, so you have to be careful to not under expose the negative. But with digital, it is the highlights that blow out first, so it is important to not let the exposure to go too far over average in the highlight end.

By shooting in RAW mode and manipulating the shot with Photoshop or Paintshop, you can really create some nice shots with a lot of detail across the tonal range. I have pretty much replaced my darkroom with Photoshop. I can adjust gamma, place certain elements on specific parts of the curve and modify the final print with masks rather than dodging and burning like I would in the darkroom. And I don't have to waste a bunch of paper experimenting since I can see what I'll get in the print before I send it to the printer.

If you're really into film, find Ansel Adams books, The Negative and [i]The Print[/]. Also take a look at some of his work if you want to be impressed with what can be done with B&W. Just be aware that you can't manipulate everything like that with roll film since you really need to ajust one frame at a time to get the maximum benefit.

Mark
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/10/08 11:36 PM
hmmmm....well I wish today didn't come but knew it would. It's an anniversary of sorts. Yes, the time has come for Not to face those dreaded anniversaries. One year ago today, WS and COW crossed the last and final line into Affairland.....wow.

I tried not to think of today and what it means. I tried to forget it. I tried to have a good day. I REALLY REALLY tried to "Fake it till you make it".

And I was doing okay....until this afternoon. Faking it is hard.

Anyway, I could look at the total picture.

A year ago, I was painting our bedroom.
A year ago, I cooked a huge shrimp boil for my whole family and some friends.
A year ago, WS and I were SO disconnected that we hadn't talked ONCE in 3 days, while he was on a VIP business trip, in which he was one of the speakers.
A year ago, instead of just calling him and finding out how it was going, I just let myself continue to be hurt and get madder as the minutes ticked by.
A year ago, I could no longer ignore that my marriage was in trouble......

And today????.....

My WS and I are having fun together.
My WS and I are doing the hard work of recovery.
My WS and I are more connected than we have been in years.
My WS asked me what was wrong when we talked on the phone. I told him some off-subject stuff but he was on to me. He kept pushing...all the while I was going back and forth in my head...

"Do I tell him what today is??"
"Do I take him back to "that" place, which could be full of good memories??"
"Does he even have a CLUE what today is??"
"Is my not saying anything going against PORH??"
"Just how honest should I be?"
"Is this just my problem and should I not burden him with it??"
"If I do say something, oh please no, will he come back with some unsupporting Fogbabble??...and if he does, can I handle it??"

Wow...it was a lot of questions just floating, with the New Not battling the Old Not. Finally, I told that the today is hard and that I knew what the date of it was early this morning, tried hard to be positive and strong all day, but that it was wearing on me.
I asked him if he understood, he said he thinks so...and then I bit the bullet and asked him if he knew what today was. He said he wasn't positive, but he had a good idea and that he had a feeling it had to do with the Dallas trip.

Then he was very sweet, didn't say any stupid fogcrap ( hurray) asked me to keep fighting the bad emotions and told me that he loves me...He was very AWARE of me and my feelings. Put himself on hold, didn't tell me I was trying to punish him, or any of the other things I was afraid of.....He just listened....he has come so very far...I am so proud of him (and yes, I thanked him and told him I love him....)...

The big picture????

A year ago today, He was in her room.....

Today, He is at HOME, with me, where he always belonged....


not2fun



Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/11/08 08:15 PM
Quote
The big picture????

A year ago today, He was in her room.....

Today, He is at HOME, with me, where he always belonged....

And the MB crowd cheers and dances! hurraydance2hurraydance2hurraydance2hurraydance2
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/17/08 07:57 PM
Good afternoon all.....

Bear with me while I rant and rave a little.... :RollieEyes:

Sooooooo....found out that COW'S brother knew about this affair. Even had email contact with WS... puke. Of course, POS Bro was knee deep in his OWN affair (hmmmmm....I'd like to say it must run in the family....but then what would that say about me???). He helped facilitate it and blah blah blah. ....Doesn't make me happy, makes me feel sorry for COW'S h and kids to have been so deceived like that......BUT none of that really has no bearing on me and my life right now. I thought for a moment that I might be responsible for telling COW'S H what a crappy BIL he has, BUT then decided this was not my responsibility. My only responsibilty to that family was to COW'S H and I did my part.

BUT it still burns me up just the same. Probably because WS and I have difference's concerning our own families, especially mine........oh well...the wind went outta my sails concerning this......

back to life....steaks for dinner, rub down for my love, and a good night sleep for me....

not2fun

ps...All signed up and ready to go to class next semester....woohoo.... dance2
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/23/08 04:26 AM
Good evening all.....

WEll, it hit me the other day, we are 6 months out from NC. Things are moving along. We are still hitting the highs, and snagging on the lows.....

I do have some GREAT NEWS.....H put in his notice on the condo (or Lustshack.....). I know its about time and some around here wondered what the hold-up was, but it was not necessarily a boundary or task that I pushed. I have my own reasons and was never really uncomfortable about it other than the fact that it was money being flushed down the toilet. He has been home for 6 months, and other than a couple of nights of going there after a fight, he hasn't been there.

He called me yesterday to tell me he had put in the notice. I had just woken up from a nap and the first thing out of my mouth was "why?". Stupid move, I know. Not sure what was going on in my head. I think it was a combination of "OMG, we are really doing this?" and "Why now???". Anyway, he was kind of upset by that response (and who could blame him????).

He told me his plan of getting the rest of his stuff home, and I told him there were some things that were not to come. Here's how that conversation went......(WARNING....loads of fogbabble coming in.....)

me: "I don't want any of the bedding here. No sheets, blankets, comforters or anything else"

H: "Why? Its not like it won't be washed"

me:

H: "Why aren't you answering me? I hate it when I aske you something and you don't answer..."

me: "Because I am biting my tongue.....also, don't not bring that picture hanging up in the bedroom. I also do not want any of the boxers brought home"

H: "We already covered that. Those have nothing to do with her."

me: "Which is more important, you keeping them even if they mean nothing to you or getting rid of them because in my mind they have EVERYTHING to do with her???"

H: "any OTHER rules I need to know about?"

me: "yes, do not bring that bottle of vodka home either. Everything else is fine....."

H: "That is a bottle of Grey Goose. Do you know how expensive that was???"

me: "Yes I do, BUT it was a birthday present from HER....get rid of it....I am not sure why you are saying this stuff to me. It is hurtful and does not help"

H: "I am sorry."

me: "Well, I think you are only saying that to end this, not because you realize how much this hurts me...."

It went bad from there. Anyway, I only wrote all of this so BS's new to recovery can see that the fog still lingers from time to time. MOST of the time he is good about this stuff, but not so much yesterday. I had my fault in it though, since I put him on the defense early. But I had to let him know that there were some things that weren't coming into OUR house. Of course, I also know that this is all emotions stemming from the fact that there are some things that he still has to "clean up" from all of this. But we are getting there.

I can move past this a little better than months ago, only because he has come so far. I do try and not post about the bad things he does because I am trying to see him in a better light. A vision that I haven't always had......

I wrote often in the early days that he was a good man, and I still believe that. This little scene does not in any way, change how I feel about him nor does it end recovery......

we are weathering the storms one day at a time.....some days this stuff is really hard.....but then again, I wasn't sure we would ever make it to this point....6 months out....whooohooo...


not2fun

Posted By: lildoggie Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/23/08 06:55 AM
Quote
me: "yes, do not bring that bottle of vodka home either. Everything else is fine....."

H: "That is a bottle of Grey Goose. Do you know how expensive that was???"

me: "Yes I do, BUT it was a birthday present from HER....get rid of it....I am not sure why you are saying this stuff to me. It is hurtful and does not help"

I sat down over 3 nights and drank her bottle of vodka.

I dont even like Vodka.
But I drank it laugh

Sucks to be an OP

hug N2F
Posted By: StillHereMakingIt Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/24/08 07:33 PM
My FWH had a hard time putting himself in my shoes in many cases...didn't understand how lies kept me from trusting him..."But, I'm telling the truth now..."

I wold explain that everytime I looked upon the bedding or the vodka or the boxers I wuld think of her and him together.

I would throw some 'what ifs' at him.


Try this one, say something were to happen to you, something horrible, dreadful, and fatal. Are there things in the house that would remind him of you? Are there things he would want to get rid of? Pill bottles? Clothes? Even though these things have monetary value and it's not practical to get rid of them, it is important for the sake of remembering.

Same goes for reminders about the death of your marriage. Every time you would see the Grey Goose bottle it would be an awful reminder.

Do you think he would understand?
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/25/08 11:01 PM
Good afternoon all....

Well, today is here. My 1 yr. Dday anniversary. I woke up today, not so good considering, and my emotions have been all over the place since then.

One minute I am angry for all that transpired, the next I am thankful we are in Recoveryville.

One hour I am hurt WS didn't make a better "decision" that day, the next I remember he was knee-deep in his "stew".......

One moment I am saddened that this even happened, the next I remember where we are today.....

I am trying to keep my mind on the positive. I know there are many around here who would love to be where we are right now, but I must admit that my mind goes to the awfulness of it all.

That day my world came screeching to a halt.....it has never and will never be the same again. In a lot of ways this is very good....for me, for H, for our family........we have grown, fallen, picked ourselves us again.....

But at the same time, it still hurts. Not as bad as it did a year ago.......but it still does. And the anger hasn't disappated....(I swear this has been the hardest for me to corral in because I learned depression is anger turned inward.....a place I never want to go to again....)......

ok...enough of my ramblings.....

I did want to take this time to say THANK YOU again to all of those who have helped me........I can't imagine where I would be TODAY without you all....

ok....going to make dinner, do some dishes and laundry, and then watch a movie with H tonight. That might be the best way for us to be together tonight.....

not2fun
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/25/08 11:25 PM
:gobblegobble:
:happythanksgiving:
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/25/08 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
:gobblegobble:
:happythanksgiving:

Mark,

you disappoint me...... rotflmao
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 01:11 AM
I'll try to be more verbose in the future...

Mark
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 08:04 AM
Hey N2F,

I had my one year anti-versary 2 weeks ago, kinda sucked but I got thru it. Next one is going to be Christmas day, then one in Jan, one in feb, and 2 in march sigh

I try to think on the positive stuff ... easier said than done I know.

Keep on keeping on as an old lady I know says.

hug
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 05:27 PM
Good morning folks....

Well, I wish I could say the day went well, but nope it didn't. It ended pretty darn sourly........

H and I weren't connecting well. He came home late, then he took me to Circuit City (he wanted to go...he's all in this Christmas mood....) and then we went to the mall. We hung out a little bit. I would seem to get in and out of my moods (told ya, emotions all over the place.....).

Later we went to bed and watched some TV. I rubbed his back. Then there was an interview on TV with that call girl from NY (the one that got the governor in trouble???...). She was saying how she felt bad for his wife, I said that she should have thought of that when she spread her legs (not nice....I know..). Then they went on to talk about some book out there for OW's and H said "I don't understand".

I rolled over and said (not so nicely I should add...) "It would be a book for COW telling her how to woo and keep her married man".....He told me to calm down, don't let it get to me.....HATE IT when he does that...

So I rolled back over, and he snuggled up to me. I told him my emotions where all over the place today. He said I needed to get better at that. Which iratated me....

So I told him that it was a year ago I discovered his affair. He kind of got deflated and rolled back over.

Then we got into a discussion about me sending him this tm yesterday. It was really stupid. He said I didn't, I knew i did. I had to be right and got him his phone to show him. He said it really didn't matter (it was a very nice tm btw) and that he can't remember when I tm him.

Then I got angry. I said that hurt my feelings. He said that was stupid and he doesn't understand why. I told him because he spent plenty of time "remembering" when his girlfriend tm'ed him.

He got angry and stormed out of the house and didn't come back......


So there it is.....I know where I messed up. I know what I did wrong.....

what I don't get is.......why is it that "I" am mean and cruel by saying something about her (keep reminding him of her.....bringing her up....) yet he can spend the night at his condo, which to me would be a HUGE reminder??? (he says its not, that he spent more time there without her than with her.....)

not2fun

ps.....I am needing help with all of this.....
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 05:43 PM
Okay,,,,,,here's where I need help......

How do I keep my taker in check, yet stated my feelings and thoughts all at the same time???

And is it not using RH to tell H what I am feeling and why??? I mean, I didn't need a drawn out conversation with him about all of it. I didn't need to "replay" last year.

And then is it not okay for me to be hurt that he can't remember when I tm him (he never even acknowledged that it was even sent....) but yet I can't help but remember that he was "waiting" for her emails and tm's, and that they didn't go unacknowledged.....(unfortunately, I had "forgotten" what was in that email last year, but yesterday it came back to me.....it was a love note which started out about how much he apprieciated HER email.......)

yuck yuck yuck....

not2fun
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
He got angry and stormed out of the house and didn't come back......

N2F,

I must chime in on your thread reagarding this insane decision to leave condo keys in the hands of your F(?)WH. faint

If H has a place to run to after dealing with your hurt/pain, it will never get resolved.

Turn in the keys to you or the rental company TODAY! Donate everything that is in the condo to Goodwill or Salvation Army or a group that will come in and clean it completly out ASAP. Keep nothing!

This condo is allowing H to run and hide. uhuh

You are at the 6 month mark and it is a difficult time for many BS's. You need to feel safe to talk about what is going on and H is not allowing that to happen. You are going to become resentful over and over again until H is willing to stay and sooth you through your pain a few times. Only then will you both work through these issues into a better marriage.
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 07:06 PM
Not,

You asked for it...

Question: Did you inform him before you triggered over the day and itā€™s meaning to you that you were experiencing anxiety over it?

Another question: Did you tell him before this latest trigger what you need from him when you have triggers?

You can't change what happened a year ago.

And you can't change what happened yesterday.

But you might be able to change what happens tomorrow...

Why did he respond so quickly to her and can't even remember that you sent him a TM? I have no idea. Why did my wife spend hours on the phone with OM, write poems for him, write short stories about him and send pictures of herself with captions even more suggestive than the poses themselves to him but can't seem to take ten minutes out of her day to talk to me about what we are doing this weekend or wear something other than jeans and a sweatshirt for our one night out together per month?

Some people are energized by the fantasy of an affair. It causes them to do things that are not in their basic nature and even things they would never dream of doing if not for the affair. It isn't the affair partner that causes them to do this but the fantasy itself.

For some it might be the fact that what they are doing is exciting simply because it is taboo and wrong and they think they are getting away with it. For others it might be that because both affair partners are feeding each otherā€™s fantasy and in order to manipulate it to into their own special fantasy they both give what neither really wants in hopes of what they really want in return.

So why can't they do the same things for us, the ones they so easily betrayed? Why did they work so hard to flirt with someone else when they could have gotten more from us with so much less effort?

It's because they can get more from us with less effort...

It's not your taker that is giving you trouble; it is your anger. And your anger is coming from being hurt and him not doing what you need him to do to make it up to you.

But he can only do what he knows to do. Unless you tell him specifically what you need from him in order to get past the triggers he can only stumble about aimlessly trying different things until he hits on something that works.

And the bottom line is that you will occassionally trigger over somthing. And that is OK, too. It's alright to trigger and be moody and upset that life has dealt you such a crummy hand. It's OK to gte mad andeven yell every now and then inorder to get over what is hurting you. But he needs to know what you expect from him when it happens and not doing what he did a year ago just isn't an option. It already happened and isn't going to not have happened no matter what he does.

The state of the marriage before the affair was 50% yours and 50% his. The affair was all his. But recovery is 50% yours and 50% his. Fixing the problems in the marriage that were there before the affair is 50% yours and 50% his. Working through your hurt unfortunately is less than 50% his. That belongs to you and YOU have to figure out what you need in order to stop hurting. Then and only then can he do his share.

Now I know that you have hit the one-year mark of D-day. But you are not that far into recovery yet and some anger appears long after recovery begins. Six months pretty much sucks when it comes to being angry and resentful. The honeymoon period is over, the gratefulness for his returning home has passed and now you need more from him than he is giving.

So what do you need from him?

Is it something he refuses to give though he knows what it is? Or is it something he is scrambling about trying to discover so that he cannot make the same mistakes he made yesterday?

Or is it simply that nothing he can do will ever be enough to make up for what he has taken away from you?

This is where counseling can do more than just muddling through this stuff alone. A third party helping you identify just exactly what it is that you need from him and helping him understand that he needs to do it without having to be prompted can often make the difference in overcoming triggers.

At the height of her fantasy w/ OM, my wife was a size 4, wore tight short-shorts and a tank top to mow the lawn. She wore a short leather skirt, sexy bustier and leather jacket with heels that were over 4 inches high to go to the same bar where he hung out and manipulated her friends into going there for the night even though they wanted to go somewhere else.

Now she is no longer lost in that fantasy and she is a size 12, seldom wears anything sexier than jeans a sweatshirt and sneakers with Velcro closures and when it's time for bed she puts on a suit of armor (flannel night gown and cotton briefs---so sexy, huh?)...

Now it isn't that I would appreciate something different. It isnā€™t that I don't show up for bed in silk boxers or wear greasy coveralls when we are together. But before the affair she dressed the same way most of the time and after the affair she has returned to the way things were. She puts no extra effort into being married in spite of the hoops she jumped through to attract OM...

And every time I think about how she looked for him and compare it to how she looks for me...

It hurts...

And because it hurts it causes me to get angry...

And because I am angry I tend to withdraw and become sullen and moody...

And she knows why I am that way because I have told her...

Sometimes she just sits with me and cries on my shoulder...

And other times she leaves me alone to sulk for a while before finding something else to do that will make me feel better...

And some times, she just says, "I'm sorry I hurt you..."

And some times she says, "Thank you for being here with me..."

Nothing in the past changes, but we both work at keeping it from becoming our future as well.

Is that wordy enough for ya?

We'll work on his response later if that's OK.

Mark

PS I just gave a healing analogy from my own recovery from health issues on Ace's new Trials and Smiles 3 thread if you have time.

Any chance you guys could do a MB Weekend this upcoming year?

How is Boundaries going?
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
Not,

You asked for it...

Question: Did you inform him before you triggered over the day and itā€™s meaning to you that you were experiencing anxiety over it?

Another question: Did you tell him before this latest trigger what you need from him when you have triggers?


So what do you need from him?

Is it something he refuses to give though he knows what it is? Or is it something he is scrambling about trying to discover so that he cannot make the same mistakes he made yesterday?

Or is it simply that nothing he can do will ever be enough to make up for what he has taken away from you?

Question #1- no. I couldn't figure out before the day came if I should say something and once the day came I wasn't sure what to do....

Question #2-Not sure. Sometimes I think I have, other times no.....my guess would be since I can't answer that question the answer is no.....

Question #3-I DON'T KNOW....He keeps asking me "What do you want from me?", and I don't know. OR....if I do have something floating around in my over-processed head, I get afraid to answer it. Afraid he won't comply, afraid he will tell me that its stupid, afraid he'll think its ridiculous....

Question #4- I don't know about that either. Sometimes I think he can't do enough, other times I KNOW he can.......Then part of wonders if I just WISH I could be that type and the reality is I am not....BUT then again, I know I am that person. (Does ANYBODY else's brains go on like this??????)

So, I guess the answer is to write down what I need from him in order to heal. I then either tell him or give it to him and let the rest fall into his hands......but I do know this....I cannot MAKE him do anything. I cannot make him help me, I cannot make him feel remorse, I can not make him SHOW me he is remorseful......

"Boundaries"????? Man, its good BUT very very very INTENSE......I mean WOW.....I did have a nice big post on it, but then I accidentally erased it.....made me mad........ mad
This stuff can be so hard.....I remember the "early" days....you made it easy...

1. meet all EN'S
2. advoid all LB'S
3. no EXPECTATIONS.......

not2fun
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/26/08 09:28 PM
And now you're in recovery which is...

Meet his ENs

Avoid Love Busters

Expect him to step up to the plate and help you heal from what he did to you...

Still only three things and two of them are the same.

The problem is continuing the first two while waiting for the third to happen...

I remember years ago working in a nuke plant doing some testing. We had to verify that this one safety system would work as required without becoming a weak point and causing a bigger problem than it was supposed to solve by breaking and making a real mess.

Our test procedure called for us to fill this system with water...over a thousand gallons...then to build pressure inside the system by continuing to pump in additional water using a positive displacement pump until 3 times it's normal operating pressure was reached and to hold that pressure for 10 minutes and check the entire system for leaks.

Well it took all morning to set up, fill the system and get ready for the test. We started building pressure and pretty quickly hit operating levels at about 2500 PSI. So we kept going and soon we were at twice normal at 5K. Now at this pressure, water will cut concrete so any leaks could become a serious problem if they happened.

As I turned the bypass valve another turn the pressure came up quickly. As I neared the test spec of 7500 PSI the rate of climb slowed enough that it made us notice it. I turned another turn and the needle hardly moved. I turned it another with little change. I turned the handle about 1 tenth of a turn, the pressure dropped to zero and a sound like an angry freight train could be heard from the other side of the wall from where we stood.

Everybody ran at once. Some wanted to avoid being contaminated by thousands of gallons of contaminated water. Others wanted to find out where the water was going and make a way for it to be contained to minimize the damage. Some of the engineers ran to discover what part of the system had failed so catastrophically because it was their jobs on the line.

After about 20 minutes of running in all directions, the whole crowd reappeared at the job site where I still stood, wearing the protective clothing and wondering where everybody had gone. My crew and I were the only ones still at the job site and if the rest hadn't appeared soon we would have gone to take a break since there isn't a lot of point standing around taking exposure to that stuff if nothing is happening.

The general consensus was that no leaks could be found at all...anywhere in the system.

So we began again...

With the same results...

So to avoid giving anyone a heart attack from running all over the building (which was rather HUGE) we decided to go out to the office and study the prints to figure out where the water was going.

We found a relief valve, buried at the tail end of the system that if it failed would dump water into a tank. But the tank wasn't full of water...

We looked further and found that if the water level in the tank reached a certain level, an automated pumping system fired up and drained the tank to make more room for more water. We put a thousand gallons into the tank and by the time 100 were in there it was being pumped out at a rate of about 250 gallons per minute.

Now if this was where the water was going, it was designed to take water faster than we added it, but by the time you could check to see if any water was there, all the water we had pumped in was already gone.

We replaced the relief valve, tried again and the system did as we expected and passed the test.

But what we had was this tank that no matter how much water we put in emptied itself before we could verify that it had even had any water put into it. Considering it was supposed to stay ahead of water running in at nearly the rate we put it in for days on end without overflowing, this was actually working as it should.

But we had a hard time showing that the water had indeed gone into the tank and not somewhere else. And if we shut the pumps off so that the tank would fill up, the amount of water we put in the first few seconds would cause it to overflow and make a real mess.

We all have relief valves built into our lives. When certain things happen that cause pressure to build, these valves fire before the stress can overload us and make us break or fail in some way. The problem is that when these things go off, they drain everything in an instant. Even our love bank is drained automatically as our safety system starts pumping itself out.

And when things calm down, we don't even know where it all went...

It wasn't what he said last night that caused the system to fire off; it was the pressure that had been building up all day with nowhere to go. But what he said set the whole thing in motion and even your love bank drained away in seconds...

Possible solutions...

Replace the component that causes it to empty at that pressure so that it can withstand even more without relieving. The drawback of course is that some other system level might be exceeded and cause a failure in some other area maybe more dangerous than this one.

Redesign the system to isolate your love bank from the safety system so that everything isn't gone when the system does what it is designed to do. This of course will take time and might require some cut and try type stuff that if you exceed the overall capacity could lead to complete shutdown of the whole system...As in giving up on the marriage...

Or maybe an alarm could be installed that warned of impending overpressure situations at a level far enough below the maximum that adjustments could be made to prevent further pressure from causing the safety system to engage unless a serous crisis occurs. At least then it wouldn't come as a surprise to both of you.

You sound the alarm and he follows a procedure to relieve the pressure. (can think of some real fun stuff here) blush

Mark
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/27/08 01:51 AM
What do you want from him, Not? I'm not getting this. To me, he seems to be doing sooo well. Didn't he put in the notice on the condo??? How come you didn't JUMP FOR JOY??? I'm not sure what you are wanting from him...

I was thinking earlier on in the week exactly what your H said.

You do seem to be RULED by your EMOTIONS.

It's sooo important to THINK before you ACT on your FEELINGS.




Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/27/08 01:54 AM
Quote
He keeps asking me "What do you want from me?

EXACTLY...Again he and I are on the same page....
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/27/08 01:57 AM
Quote
I can not make him SHOW me he is remorseful......

I have read on HERE how he has EXPRESSED and EVIDENCED remorse...
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/27/08 02:01 AM
Quote
He told me to calm down, don't let it get to me.....HATE IT when he does that...

Why do you HATE this?

Quote
I told him because he spent plenty of time "remembering" when his girlfriend tm'ed him.

How do you KNOW this? Sounds like a DJ to me. Who was he lying i there in the bed with? Why are you bringing HER up to him? This is where the MINDFULNESS comes in. THINKING before you SPEAK. NOT being RULED by your EMOTIONS. What was the VALUE in saying this? How does this line of communication help YOU or YOUR MARRIAGE?
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/27/08 02:12 AM
Hi there Mimi...

Good to see ya.

/tj
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/27/08 04:44 AM
Quote
Hi there Mimi...

Good to see ya.

Hi back atcha!!

flirt
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/27/08 06:02 PM
As I was JUST NOW indicating...you know I LUV YA...

So I want to make sure you know what I left unsaid in my previous posts.

It may seem that I was being TOUGH on you.

I was.

Because I really believe that doing RECOVERY takes MENTAL TOUGHNESS.

That's why it's SOOO important to use all of the LIFE SKILLS and EMOTIONAL COPING SKILLS that you can put into play.

RECOVERY was the HARDEST thing that I have ever done.

It's like FORGIVING the UNFORGIVABLE.

It's NOT for everybody and I can fully understand a normal person NOT DOING IT...

I sometimes WONDER..if I was younger or newly married..or whatever..so much for the WHAT IFS....

When I went in, my H was able to tell me straight up: "I'm willing to do this if you don't continue to BEAT ME UP about it"..so I made that agreement from the start..that I would not BEAT HIM UP about the affair...

I really recommend that for you, NOT...

FOCUS ON YOUR MARITAL ISSUES NOW..and NOT the AFFAIR...

He has CHOSEN to be with YOU...so NOW it's about YOU AND HIM...

I'm saying that I FULLY, FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR PAIN AND NEED TO BEAT HIM UP ABOUT THE AFFAIR..but YOU CAN'T DO IT...

FOCUS on your OWN HEALING..that's what I found to be helpful too

Again as I always say..FOCUS ON YOURSELF..FOCUS ON YOURSELF..and NOT HIM...

FOCUS on the PRESENT and the FUTURE..and NOT THE PAST...

GRIEVE the OLD MARRIAGE..sad to say..it is now DEAD...

But you can have HOPE for THE BEST MARRIAGE EVER...

hug
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by mimi_here
As I was JUST NOW indicating...you know I LUV YA...

Mimi,

I know you do..... wink

And as far as your other posts being tough on me??? Well, I EXPECTED nothing less. I know you are right....my brain knows it, its just getting my heart there, KWIM????

There are even times when I FEEL it coming on and my brain is screaming at me..."NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...DON'T DO IT....DON'T DO IT....."

Ugh.....as far as focusing on my own healing, for the most part I have been. I have made so tremendous strides and learned sooooo much. Sometimes though, I do believe it is all so much to take in I don't know where to start.......and I also believe that when I am trying to change these habits and my thinking patterns (the old ways....) my taker is not liking it....

This is why I believe my friendship with Lala has been so valuable to me....she gives me insight into the wayward thinking. When he tells me something about all of this or how he's feeling, it sometimes doesn't make sense to me. I ask her, she's like "Yep, know all about that one.....".

As far as focusing on our progress, well, that is why I try not to post too much on something silly that he does. I try to keep it positive. Does that mean he's been perfect?? No, not hardly, BUT the changes he has made that are so positive to us, that is what I try to focus on.....

Keep doing what you been doing (like you really need me to tell you that.....)...the reason I came on here about all of that is BECAUSE I needed you all to help me get back on track. I couldn't seem to do it on my own and I had made H so mad that he wasn't any help either.

I was hoping I would get the ol' one/two punch. One being Mark with his calming words (notice he tore into me as well....just a little less directly....) and two being you telling me like it is......

As far as "what if's"?? Well, I AM younger than you were and not married near as long, SOOOOOOO you never do know.... wink

not2fun
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 02:44 AM
Originally Posted by not2fun
He told me to calm down,

Quote
I told him my emotions where all over the place today. He said I needed to get better at that.

Quote
So I told him that it was a year ago I discovered his affair. He kind of got deflated and rolled back over.


Not, in all of the above situations, your FWS had opportunities to HELP you HEAL. Each time, he chose to throw it back into your lap or to withdraw. Both responses I find unacceptable. This type of behavior leads to resentments.

He created all the sh*t you are dealing with. This is his mess to clean up, but he wants you to clean it up.

And considering it was D-day anniversary, HE fell way short of helping you recover from the trauma he inflicted on you.



Quote
He said it really didn't matter (it was a very nice tm btw) and that he can't remember when I tm him.


A FWS actively working to earn his BWs trust and love would have RESPONDED to the freakin' TM. He completely dropped the ball here and should have apologized for it. That would have ended the whole discussion with the two of you connecting.

Instead....


Quote
Then I got angry. I said that hurt my feelings. He said that was stupid and he doesn't understand why. I told him because he spent plenty of time "remembering" when his girlfriend tm'ed him.


You told him your feelings were hurt.

He called that stupid.

Sounds to me like HE isn't doing what's necessary to make your marriage safe FOR YOU.



Quote
He got angry and stormed out of the house and didn't come back......


OK, so now I KNOW your marriage is not a safe place for you. He LEFT????

So every time you express that your feelings are hurt, he runs away?!

This is completely unacceptable and is PUNISHMENT to you. "If you don't behave, I'll leave." Certainly doesn't sound like he's very invested in recovery. Sounds more like he wants to run and hide whenever he actually has to DO something to help you heal.




Quote
So there it is.....I know where I messed up. I know what I did wrong.....


HUH?

This isn't so much about what YOU did wrong. I see a FWS not committed to doing the hard work of rebuilding love and trust. Sure, meeting EN's feels good and he'll partake in that. But don't make him face the real destruction that lies underneath the surface. He'll run and hide when that comes out.



Quote
yet he can spend the night at his condo, which to me would be a HUGE reminder??? (he says its not, that he spent more time there without her than with her.....)


Not, this is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. He still has his condo?!!!!! WTF!

When tst came home, we had his condo cleaned out. I tried to bring a few things here but it was too triggering. We ditched it all. He told the rental agency that he was moving out. They winterized the place and he finished paying his lease until it ran out. He turned in the keys and neither one of us ever returned there.

This condo needs to be OUT of your lives. It is a reminder to you and to him of the affair, of the abandonment, of all that SHOULD BE behind you at this point.


Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 03:12 AM
Not - did he come home and apologize and recognize the true nature of the wrong done here?

Don't you dare apologize for being sensitive enough to recognize that your marriage was falling back into complacency. Any man who on an anniversary of betrayal turns this against his wife and goes off to sulk needs to examine himself.

Has there been contact?

Have you continued to "trust but verify" or did you get complacent too?
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 05:39 AM
Not,

You've been reading Boundaries, right?

I wasn't meaning to beat you up and I think you know that. My reasoning was that you still can't control him, only you and what you do in response to what he does or doesn't do.

If you have in fact told him in advance that you were experiencing anxiety over the day and all the triggers it brought, and he still acted like he was oblivious, then HE needs to be beat up...I'm willing if you can get him to sit still long enough for me to catch up to him.

But if he was oblivious because he now feels safe and complacent because he didn't realize the day was going to be a problem for you, then he needs to be told about it in order to know about it.

What I'm getting at is that for him, he mght not have realized you were having a problem and more specifically that it was tied to the day itself without anything else going wrong on top of it.

Now his response of running away sounds like he still doesn't want to face the music for what he did, but my point was that it might have been short circuited by telling him ahead of time, "Look, today is going to be hard for me because it is the anniversarry of when I found out about your affair..." Additionally, you might be able to let him know that you need him to do something specific for you in order to help you get past it with a minimum of trouble.

There really is only one way for him to make this right. That is "whatever it takes..." Anything less and he is still putting the load on you to overcome his mess.

But unless he knows that you are triggering and what to do when your are triggering and what to do for you to get you past the triggering and how to help you stop triggering, the best he can do is take a shot in the dark and see if it works. If it doesn't he has two choices, try something else or drop it because nothing will work, as far as he knows.

So for him to help you heal, he has to know when you are in pain and he has to know why you are in pain...And he has to know how to help you get over your pain.

We can all say "HE SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS WRONG!" He does know what is wrong. He messed up BIG TIME (Hate this new TOS filter crazy). He knows that. But he can't un-ring the bell and he has no clue what you need him to do for you unless you tell him.

You began telling us a few days before you had a problem that the day was coming and that you KNEW it would give you trouble. My question is, did you tell him?

You see, his affair didn't start on that day, you just found out about it then and if he was a typical wayward flibbertygibbit (trying to get around the TOS filter here skeptical) then he had such a severe case of cranial rectumitis then that he probably can't remember what he did that day, and might not have been able to tell you with much detail even a day later let alone a year later.

The day was a trigger for you, but not for him. To him, the distress you felt was simply because he messed up and there was nothing he knew to do to fix it, since he can't undo his mess.

Think of the Policy of Radical Honesty for a minute. What specifically does it say?

Not talking about lying about an affair here, but about being totally honest about all aspects of our life. We should tell our spouse everything we know about ourselves, including our emotions and emotional state including the bad stuff. Ignoring the bad stuff and focusing on the good stuff doesn't improve the bad and can only detract from the good.

Suppose I said "I'm not happy right now."

Your first response might be "Why is that?" In fact, if you instead said, "Gee, I'm sorry to hear that, " you have no idea why I am unhappy and I still am unhappy and only I know what's wrong and now I am mad because you don't care why I'm unhappy.

Now if I was unhappy because of soemthing you did or said, then not telling you will not help me at all and can only make you wonder if that is the case.

Your husband KNOWS that what he did is the ultimate cause of all of this grief you are both going through, but if things went along pretty smoothly for a couple of days and then turned sour quickly, he knew something was wrong but might not have known it was the day itself and since for him it was still all about the affair and not just the day, which quite honestly is your problem and not his, though without his mess-up (danged filter- what if I wanted to refer to a helical fastener with a pan head with Phillips drive? rant2) you wouldn't have the problem...

This is way too confusing...

Getting over the triggers is really hard stuff. When my 1st year Dday anniversary approached I thought we were sailing right along. The day itself actually turned out to be better than I feared but the days leading up to it were absolute hell (and know this one gets though sigh). I withdrew from her, she knew I was withdrawing and then a minor incident turned into a night of shouting, accusations and sleeping in separate rooms. ( I got the sofa... :RollieEyes:)

So, since we all heard that you were about to have a really bad day just because it was THE day, did he know about it? If not, why not?

And does he know what you need him to do when you trigger in general? Some people want to be left alone. Some people want to scream and vent. Some people want to be held and allowed to cry on someone's shoulder...Some just need to be acknowledged. I don't know what you need because you've never told me.

Does he know? Did you tell him?

Now if you did tell him you were about to trigger, told him you were triggering when you were and told him before that you needed ____ in order to get past it, then ignore all of this and my preceeding post.

Now I have a message for him...

Lose the condo pronto. Sell, donate or burn everything in it that isn't necessary for your life to continue. Are you seriously considering a bottle of vodka to be of any value even close to that of your wife? Get real! If you had your choice, your bottle or your wife, which would you choose? That IS the choice you have to make here. Pick her over everything else or quit pretending it matters.

I wish I had him here right now...

I'm in a thrashin' mood tonight... grumble

Did I just make it worse?

Mark
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 03:42 PM
Just to clarify things...

I've been closely keeping up with the GREAT STUFF Not's H has done..not sure it's on this thread...

Like just recently, he came home and informed NOT that he gave notice on the condo...and THEN..she BLASTED him...rather than expressing her happiness about that FACT...

He's done other GREAT STUFF, too...

My perspective MAY be different and all situations certainly are not the same...

BUT our 6 year D-DAY ANNIVERSARY will be December 31 and in RECOVERY LANGUAGE to me it seems like just YESTERDAY..I remember it so VIVIDLY...

IMO, it take lots and lots and lots of TIME to HEAL ..maybe especially if it was a ROMANTIC AFFAIR...

My H was not NORMAL until ONE FULL YEAR ...after ONE YEAR it's like a LIGHTBULB went off...

So that's why I've been telling you to focus on YOURSELF...

I REALLY, REALLY think that NOT'S HUSBAND is getting there..

He's gotta a LONG WAY to GO but GETTING THERE...

NOT, let everybody know about the GREATNESS of YOUR MAN...you know better than I do what happens when you FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE!!
Posted By: mimi_here Re: HELP....Possible WS and COW meeting - 11/29/08 04:03 PM
Quote
She sent that email but SHE also broke contact yesterday with WS. She got a hold of him at work. WS told me right away, which was good, but I was upset because he engaged in words with her.....but she was pulling the whole lawsuit thing on him which put him in a panick he said. I told him we needed to change that number, notify all of his clients, order new cards, and that the next time she calls just hang up......I was actually proud that he told me.

Now it just sucks, because WD gets to start ALL OVER AGAIN. Hopefully this will not be as bad, especially since this whole thing is leaving a crappy taste in WS mouth.

He is still at home....the only thing bad about all of this is that he is still in a foggy wayward frame of mind. BUT his actions are showing his sincerety in all of this......like most WS, he just wishes it would all just go away......

This was posted on 8/20...so WITHDRAWAL is just at the 3 MONTH POINT AGAIN...YUCK...


The HARLEYS say that it takes a FULL 3 to 6 MONTHS after EACH CONTACT..I totally agree..

RECOVERY IS HARD...HARD..HARD...and SEEMS to take FOREVER...
Posted By: mimi_here Re: NOT Goes Dark - 11/29/08 04:10 PM
Looking for WH's POSITIVE ACTIONS..for NOT to FOCUS on..on the NECKLACE..in September..

Quote
Actually, a quick question about this necklace thing.....

When I was trying to "unload" it yesterday, WS called. He could tell I was unhappy and I told him what was going on. I did make the comment "I'm just cleaning up your mess". Bad....bad.....BAD...

Anyway, WS offered to get "rid" of it for me. He would sell it and give the money to me. Should I take him up on this??? Part of me says yes, because it is such a turmoil for me, but then part of me says no, because I have a deep fear of him giving back to her somehow. I don't know why I have that fear considering he had it for months when he could have given it back to her and he didn't....He said I could have the money to do as I wish with.

We did scrabble a little over it, but WS wasn't having none of that. He apologized again for the A and the what it did to me, then DEMANDED that I go get a pedicure and not to come home until that was done or he would just send me back out. Can't complain there.....he is trying....hard. And I love him more and more for it......

Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 04:11 PM
Good morning, Not2!

I felt compelled to post to you this morning. In many ways, I agree with Mimi. Since you are the one posting, we can only tell you what YOU can do in these instances. If your FWH were posting, we were sure give him WHAT FOR for continuing to turn away from you when things are at their darkest. THAT is when you two need to stick together most. When you withdraw, you take your precious marriage and create decay.

I agree with Mark, who is telling you to be proactive, to let your FWH know when you are triggering and by preparing him ahead of time with what he can do in those moments. If it's to zip his mouth and hold you, then you tell him that. There will always be time to revisit things, when the air is calm and your emotions aren't so high. HE will then have a chance to speak his peace and correct you where you are dead wrong. Boy, the experience I had with the Z did teach me a lot, and one of those things was to open up my mouth and say what was going on, even if I was afraid that he would bristle. Keeping mum is no way to live. How will you learn how to communicate if you don't communicate? Yup, you will probably mess up for a while, showing all your anger; maybe people can chime in with how to help you actually SAY these things to your FWH, so that you don't kill the message with it's delivery, so that he HEARS you.

Now, when I read what your FWH's responses have been to your fears, well, frankly, it gets my goat. HE's not there yet. Still a bit foggy. Neither one of you can avoid the affair and the damage it has done. I don't agree with carrying on as if it didn't happen. YEs, work on yourself, NO, do not hold the affair over his head whenever he does something wrong. YES, get rid of the confarndit condo. Even if he has to continue paying on it, it should not be a place for either of you to run when the going gets tough. It's a copout, and convenient place to withdraw, not taking responsibility for what you helped to create.

I'm a bit concerned that this was not a stipulation in recovery, that he get rid of that place, but that is a personal choice between the two of you.

Have you told your FWH where he is going right, and how much you appreciate that?

What really stinks is that your FWH could benefit greatly from this forum, from counseling with the Harleys, and it's not being considered. Is he afraid of what he will be asked to do? I wonder...

From the limited experience I've had with it, recovery is definitely not for the faint of heart.

Much love and respect to you, Not.
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 04:18 PM
Check this out, NOT, after you called the COW on 10/13....


Quote
When I got home, WS saw how completely upset I was (upset doesn't quite cover it......) and was VERY WORRIED for me. He took me in his arms and held me, listened while I told him everything including why I triggered. He explained to me what he was going through this morning, which was NOTHING like it was in Jan.

Then he got very angry at HER ( ) for saying those things. I told him I was mostly upset because it seemed like SHE was trying to show how she was a better person than me......but it just made him dislike her more....he wanted to be my defender and protector.....

and yes, I am still struggling in this area. I know that its udderly ridiculous, BUT....I still stuggle.

Anyway, this is where things stand at the moment...and lessoned learned????.....be more open with WS on this stuff, though which is hard when we are still establing trust.....


Seems like the LAST PARAGRAPH is what Mark was reminding you of, my dear...
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/29/08 10:53 PM
Not,

I bumped an old thread today for you and IDWAD to read when you get time, If it hasn't been hit by tomorrow afternoon I'll try to bump it again.

I also wanted to invite you to drop by the Vacation Thread on the Recovery forum. If you feel the need to catch up, read a couple of pages and see if the subject has changed less than ten times. If so, read another page. The whole idea is to discuss anything but affairs, recovery from affairs, dealing with affairs or anything related to affairs. Normal topics are food, vacations, trivia, questions about shopping :RollieEyes: and discussion of a lot of goofy stuff.

It keeps a few around who might have otherwise left so that they can put in their 2 cents worth on other folks' threads when they have something to say.

Drop in and say "Hi." We try not to beat newcomers up too badly the first few visits. skeptical

The Vacation Thread

Mimi, I think you know where it's at too if you want to take a break (or vacation) from more serious stuff.

pray
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by mimi_here
Like just recently, he came home and informed NOT that he gave notice on the condo...and THEN..she BLASTED him...rather than expressing her happiness about that FACT...


Giving notice about the condo is great. But some actions should have followed that notice...such as having it cleaned out and turning in the keys and never going there again.

tst's condo was one of the first things we dealt with (I'm talking within the first two weeks of recovery). And the people here told us how important it was to get it out of our lives and never return there and not keep one single thing from there.

I see this condo as an emergency needing immediate attention. A FWS should NOT have a place to escape, ESPECIALLY if he's still in withdrawal, as Mimi said.

Get the condo out of your lives....NOW.



Quote
He's done other GREAT STUFF, too...

...FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE!!


I agree about focusing on the positive, but don't bury your head in the sand about things that are hurting your recovery.

Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Not - did he come home and apologize and recognize the true nature of the wrong done here?

Don't you dare apologize for being sensitive enough to recognize that your marriage was falling back into complacency. Any man who on an anniversary of betrayal turns this against his wife and goes off to sulk needs to examine himself.

Has there been contact?

Have you continued to "trust but verify" or did you get complacent too?

Hello Miss Kayla.....

Yes he did come home the next day. After a few phone calls and more arguing, he did waive the white flag first. And apologized. He told me how much he loves me and he wants this to work so much and "Do I understand that???"...Well, no I don't. I mean I do, but it is hard for me to understand why he wants it now and not before the A. But that can't be changed and revisiting it doesn't help. He did say (and has said this sooooo many times I can't keep count....) "Not, nobody has what it takes to make me happy but you...it has always been that way...".

I've been like the dog chasing his tail,,,,trying to make sense of the irrational.

I agree he dropped the ball the other night (he even knows this....), but I can't help but know that I did first. And even if he DID drop the ball, it doesn't excuse what I said.......

Am I trusting but verifying??? Yep.....not complacent there at all. NC remains there......

As far as being complacent, well, he is trying to change his behavior towards me....change behavior that was unacceptable prior to the A. The hardest part for me is COMMUNICATING properly what those things are or when he didn't do it the way I would have loved......very hard stuff.....

not2fun
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 11:26 PM
Quote
And apologized. He told me how much he loves me and he wants this to work so much and "Do I understand that???"...Well, no I don't. I mean I do, but it is hard for me to understand why he wants it now and not before the A.

Because he has CHANGED !!

The FORMER WAYWARD..and WAYWARD..are NOT the same person!!

The OLD MARRIAGE is DEAD..the FORMER HUSBAND is GONE... FOREVER, NOT..GONE FOREVER...

The SAME PERSON does not RETURN...

Just like this has DAMAGED you..it also has DAMAGED him...
Posted By: mimi_here Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 11:28 PM
Quote
"Not, nobody has what it takes to make me happy but you...it has always been that way...".

THIS IS WONDERFUL!! WRITE THIS DOWN SOMEWHERE IN A JOURNAL!! So you will not doubt his SINCERITY...
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 11:37 PM
SL....(upward and onward...),

Oh girl, I missed you......Thanks for your kind words. Yes I agree with Mimi. I learned from Mark. This was why I posted all this in the first place. BECAUSE I needed help in where _I_ am, with what I am doing. Sure he could have responded better, BUT that does NOT justify what I said. And you are sooooo completely dead on about me and communication. I am NOT good at communicating, BECAUSE OF those fears. Or when I do, I end up doing it in a LB way, which get me NO WHERE......

As far as not facing the damage the affair has done, I really don't think he is doing that. Well, I take that back, I know that sometimes he is, but not always. He has been wonderful on many occasions.

As far as the condo....it was a long drawn out discussion, POJA if you will, between us. He has done his part, I UNDERSTOOD why he wasn't ready to give it up at first (its piece of our history together....), and now its going away. As far as getting rid of everything in it....uhh NO,,,,,I WANT that sectional and the toaster...... rotflmao.....I could explain more, but I know it will fall on deaf ears (as I have tried and tried to explain it to Lala many many times to no avail.....) but truth be told, it wasnt part of the R agreement, COW doesn't live anywhere near us so I wasn't worried about any "meetings" there and I AM OKAY WITH THIS AREA......

As far as the other stuff, well, we all KNOW why he won't post here, plus this isn't his type of thing ( you are all still "crazy"....lol...though he now LOVES Mimi and Lala....), counseling with the Harley's, he doesn't want to because we have issurance for other MC's, BUT I am getting ready to talk to him about doing one of the Weekends next year. He did like the one we went to in April. Got more out of it than I expected him to...so I think he may do it, when I get around to telling him aobut it.....He's not afraid of being told what to do....he'll do it....

and yes, recovery is not for the faint at heart.....I just didn't realize just how "unfaint" you have to be....

I am doing well this evening. Really. H is doing some wonderful things.......

not2fun



Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 11:39 PM
Originally Posted by mimi_here
Quote
"Not, nobody has what it takes to make me happy but you...it has always been that way...".

THIS IS WONDERFUL!! WRITE THIS DOWN SOMEWHERE IN A JOURNAL!! So you will not doubt his SINCERITY...


Hey girl,,,,,,

If you remember, I emailed this quote to you last spring when he said it......I don't doubt his sincerity, I think I really doubt MYSELF.....hmmmm...needing some of that self-love stuff...

not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 11:41 PM
Mimi,

I think I suffer from the "Dog chasing his tail syndrome"....still trying to make sense of the irrational....KWIM...and it doesn't help me or the M.....

not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 11/30/08 11:52 PM
Mimi and Mark,,,,,,

Ok you two, this I wanted to save for last......

All I can say is that you BOTH are right.

Mark, what you wrote about being Proactive with MYSELF was right on the money.....it is an internal struggle for me. Has been for YEARS.....With the journey I am on right now, I am struggling. It is much easier for me to withdraw or focus on others needs, than to address my own. And when I get confused or need to refocus, I look forward to what you have to say. Even with your long winded posts, you condense it better than the books do....

Mimi, I expect you to be hard and I expect you to point out my mistakes and NOT to concentrate on what H did or didn't do. Because all I CAN do is control myself....

not2fun
Posted By: believer Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 05:11 PM
So how are things going now?
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by believer
So how are things going now?


sigh


not2fun
Posted By: believer Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 05:29 PM
Can you talk about it?
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by believer
Can you talk about it?


I feel like I should....but then again.....

not2fun
Posted By: believer Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 05:42 PM
I feel like you should too.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by believer
I feel like you should too.


laugh.....thanks....made me smile....

Have you ever been at a crossroads in life, and the two choices in front of you are not exactly great choices??? or easy??? (hey, we all know how I like to whine about the hard things in life....).....

not2fun
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 07:06 PM
I'm listening.

If its Recovery related, it might be helpful to those of us who watch your thread so as to know what to expect.

hug
Posted By: believer Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 07:32 PM
I really think you need to spill what is going on.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 09:31 PM
ok.....here goes.....

What to do when WS breaks some boundaries???

What to do when the BS breaks boundaries???

YOu see, I've learned a lot of boundaries, BUT I guess what I have trouble with is ENFORCING them. See, I can tell H that he has broken a boundary, that it hurts me and our recovery, BUT I can not MAKE him not break it....KWIM????

See, I've stated many many many times how bad our M had gotten BEFORE the A started. We are still rectifing issue's pre-A. And sometimes, we disagree with what the others opinion is. And I know this is where negotiations come in to play. Its just a matter of getting it right......ughhhhhh...

And some of these small issue's seem to become bigger than they need to be because I am finding all of this hard just because the memories of last year keep coming into play. Makes me doubt what I did, which is STUPID, I know, but I do believe that all BS have doubts about not going straight to D........

Just a round about circle.....its hard. I also know my whining about it doesn't help.....neither is moping....

I also know that I have officially moved into the depression stage, which is quite NORMAL for all of this, but doesn't make this any easier. This is the phase I've DREADED, because I didn't want to go here. But there is no advoiding it. I am trying to face all of this head on. I am trying to pull up my big girl panties, so to speak...I'm already in the counseling and on the AD's, so there isn't much else to do but address it all, be patient, maybe get a pedicure or two....or maybe I should pull out the big guns and go get me a facial or a massage......

not2fun
Posted By: catperson Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 09:57 PM
What boundaries has he broken?
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/11/08 11:29 PM
Not,
I think it's important that you tell the folks here exactly what you mean. No code, no walking around the subject. What exactly happened?

Boundaries are about protecting yourself, not put in place to MAKE SOMEONE COMPLY. Boundaries are rules for how YOU will live YOUR life, not about how other people live theirs, husbands, children and close family included.

I look at them as self imposed rules. If I allow myself to loosen them, or not enforce them, I hurt myself, and then it's my problem to deal with. If I enforce them, I remain safe, to the extent that I have control.

In order to get the help you need from these boards, you gotta lay it out there. OR, talk to your counsellor about these issues, if you feel uncomfortable here.

Who or what are you trying to protect by not being completely open about the sitch in your thread?
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/13/08 06:59 PM
Need to let it out......

Slight rant and raving here....(Kayla you may be able to help...or at least understand....)

Ok.....so H and I were talking yesterday about his church. Turns out IF he was to return to the church, he would have to confess about his A, then he would be excommunicated, and start over in the church from scratch in order to return to the church......Now I had him repeat this stuff to me to make sure I understand....BECAUSE going through MY mind is.....

"In order to return to the church you would have to confess, get excommunicated, REPENT, all in order to return. And you and COW discussed religion and God OFTEN (lets not forget how much this annoys me and really ticks me off.....) and he even had his MOM and Dad talk to her about the church, and she was going to CONVERT for him.....and YET did he NOT tell her how the church would excommunicate him and not accept HER....unless of course, the church would only look at them as a divorced persons and think they meet AFTER the divorce, but even still wouldn't the church excommunicate them if they were to find out they had been deceived?? And even if all this didn't happen, would it truly matter since IF they were to stay together or get married, they only way they would truly REPENT would be not to be together???"......

Ok, I know this is all in the past, and since none of this stuff did take place, this was new information for me. Needed to get it out, because I didn't tell him what was going on in my head, because it really had nothing to do with what we were talking about, but those thoughts just ran through my head none-the-less and it just bugs me AND just wanted to get it out.....

affairs and waywards suck......not2fun
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/13/08 07:53 PM
Dear Not,

May I send a hug? ((((HUG))))!!!!!

There is a great deal of trusting in God needed to understand how the LDS church works in regard to conversion and excommunication.

For example, in your husband's case, where he is no longer in an active affair, and never was active in the church, excommunication is not a foregone conclusion. However, when I warned what he'd have to face, when he was laying out all these conditions for you back when he was an unrepentant, in-your-face-making-demands-wayward, that was a very real outcome.

As for the OW thinking she'd be able to be baptized so that she could win one more advantage over you... not going to happen.

Couples engaged in adultery are not welcome in the Church. She would have to fake spiritual conversion, which would be confirmed by those teaching her (they'd have to feel that same confirming witness from the Holy Ghost that she was converted and repentant and ready for baptism), and for those authorizing the baptism - there are layers of interviews to make sure that she doesn't get baptized unto her own condemnation. God will not be mocked. Not by her. And no branch president or bishop is going to take that responsibility lightly.

So - she's "doing" a married man and considering converting to the Church? First she'd have to break up with him. She'd have to quit all lifestyle vices, including the health vices of drinking, drugs, smoking and other things. She'd have to live a pure life. And this is impossible for OW to do. It may take months, even years before she could get near a baptismal font...

So please be comforted from this torment. I've said it before. Your husband may have been born into an LDS family or been baptized when he was young, but I doubt he has ever even read the Book of Mormon (because if he had, he'd have been pierced to the core by the writings of Jacob - 3rd part of the book - who rebuked the men for wounding the hearts of their wives and children via infidelity), and I doubt he understands the Church Court system.

Church discipline is a path back into activity. It is a very loving process. There's a book he ought to read if he's considering activity again. "The Worth of Every Soul" by Steven Cramer - he would then better understand what excommunication in the LDS Church is, how it is done, why it is done, and what Steven Cramer when through to come back into fellowship.

For a repentant man, excommunication is not to be feared. It is the beginning of the passage back to being able to feel the love of God again.

I hope this helps.

P.S. - afterthought about the "loving process" of excommunication - to the unrepentant, unremorseful, unwilling to make restitution to the best of his ability, they will not be able to feel the love involved in the process, thus many hateful blogs on the web about the Church - you know your husband wasn't able to feel your love in his most sinful state - therefore, easy to understand why someone would hate the Church if they went through excommunication without the heart to come back.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/13/08 08:23 PM
Thanks K.....

I really just wanted to get that out. I am pretty sure H knew where my mind was traveling with all he was telling me and I didn't want to get into an LB feast with it. It was just mind-boggling to me that he would tell me this information and knowing what I know about the religious discussions they had and how intergrated they "tried" to make it (all the wayward babble about God wanting this and sending them "signs" and such yuckiness was VERY much a part of this affair....something that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth...) I had to work VERY HARD to not be judgemental nor disrespectful of it.....especially since the subject came up because of something else, not the affair. The whole discussion had NOTHING to do with that or HER or him for that matter, but while he was telling me this, my mind just naturally went "there"..... :RollieEyes:

I know that all they talked about was part of the "fantasy"....they would divorce their spouses, they would become one in the church and live life happily ever after....but yet reality was not there...I know this. Like I said, this aspect of the affair is probably the hardest thing for me to digest....(and no, I know better than to try and make sense of it....).

Anyway, I brought it all here rather than allow myself the chance to smack him around with reality, which he already knows....KWIM???

I am not so much tormented, but mostly just disgusted....besides, like I stated earlier, its all really a moot point since things NEVER played out the way they had fantasized......silly little NOT threw a wrench in the whole mess....

gotta go decorate a tree now...

not2fun

Posted By: believer Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/13/08 08:29 PM
Oh Not, I'm relieved. This is just the typical A fantasy. My ex and I were heavily involved in the Christian church for 15 years. We were leaders.

I tossed him out on D-day and he had the nerve to show up at our church with OW.

He really believed that the Lord had brought him his true soulmate, he would divorce me and their affair would be blessed. YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Not slaughters the COW - 12/13/08 08:32 PM
There's a lot people want to give God the credit for (their own wickedness) but don't want to give Him credit for goodness, like a forgiving wife...

I'm hoping he counts his blessings these days.

I'm going to hear some Christmas music tonight.
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