First of all,

I want to thank everyone on this site for all of their help and guidance.

Anyone not following my story, that's interested can find my previous two posts here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079940&fpart=1

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2083974#Post2083974


I arrived to WW's city late Thursday night. I asked her if there was anything she "needed" (key word for me this weekend) me to pick up. She thought it would be fun to BBQ later in the weekend - so I picked up some groceries, breakfast food and some beer...

I arrived to WW's house, and she greeted me on the curb with a hug and a kiss. It was sort of an awkward moment, but at the same time, it felt like "home" for me. She helped me bring in the groceries, and gave me a tour of her house, and helped me to get settled.

She also "needed" some new clothes for work - since she has a new dress code standard where she is now. I spent about $120 on a new suit and some dress pants for her (got a smokin' deal the night before at the mall). She loved everything I picked out. She had a few things for me as well. I also showed her some new outfits that I picked out for myself.

We had some beers, and hung out with her roommate, then went to bed. I didn't sleep on the couch, but slept on her floor by her "bed" as she only has an air mattress in her new place.

In the morning, I made breakfast. She woke up about a half hour later and wanted to see what I was doing. She helped a while, but went back to bed because she has been lacking in the sleep department lately. She and Roommate woke up a few hours later, while I did some working out downstairs. We had breakfast, and WW showed Roommate her new clothes that I bought. I overheard some of the following while I was cleaning up after breakfast:

Roommate: "Wow, I've never had a guy go shopping for me, let alone pick out outfits that great."

WW: "Yeah, you should see some of the stuff he picked out for himself, it looks really great. We used to go shopping all the time when we first started dating, so he knows what I like. He's really doing a good job taking care of himself while I'm down here!"

So, that was good! She is taking notice of me meeting some of her needs!

That afternoon, we spent the day together at a lake, hung out, chatted, had some beers, etc. It was a good day.

We came home later in the afternoon, showered up, and headed out to some bars. We found a great place downtown, and listened to some kick [censored] bands. WW and I spent some time talking, but mostly listening to Roommate as she's a chatter box and VERY self-centered. I think WW is going to go crazy living with her! But, I think it's also good that WW is exposed to someone like her, she may see small bits and pieces of herself in her Roommate.

We came home, went to bed. It was a great night out, and we had a lot of fun.

Next morning, I had my interview. Only had about 3 hours sleep. I slept downstairs so WW could sleep in. The interview went very well! So, I am thinking that I will likely get offered a position. I am crossing my fingers. Got out of the interview and found a text message from WW: "Hope the interview went well!" It made my morning. I stopped at the store and picked her up a clothes drying rack because she "needed" one for her room to put her laundry on.

Got home, and BBQ'ed up the stuff I bought the night before. Everything turned out great, and Roommate was really impressed. WW told her how I BBQ all the time at home, and how she misses it. Roommate and WW were glad I was down there, because they usually eat out.

After lunch, we headed out for a music festival. Festival was OK, Roommate, WW, and I had fun though watching some of the bands. It was a good time. Afterwards, we headed downtown for something to eat. WW's aunt texted us both a message, wanting to know how she was glad we were spending the weekend together, and hopes that we both have a since of clarity as to how things will be in our future. WW asked if I had written her back. I hadn't, I copied WW and WW's aunt and said that we were having a great time together, but we still needed to discuss things for the "clarity". WW wanted to know when I wanted to talk... Up to this point, Roommate had been inseparable from us. It was OK, but annoying at the same time. We didn't have much chance for undivided attention, but Roommate is great source of conversation (even if she only talks about herself) for WW. Roommate stepped away, and WW and I talked for a few minutes... WW said that she was glad that I was down there, and she understood why I needed to come. I told her that I thought it was a bit of an emergency situation. I asked her how she felt, and she said that she too thought it was an emergency as well. We left any talk of OM at that. WW also said that we need to work things out, and the only way it's going to happen is if I get down there ASAP so we can start counseling. I obviously agreed. The conversation was short, cordial, and I think we both realize why we were there together. I asked her if she knew how much I loved her, and she understood. Roommate came back shortly, and we finished dinner and headed out to another club to catch one of the greatest bands we'd ever seen live. They'll be big for sure. WW and I both loved it, and thought how great it was to catch something so great on just a whim. I picked up the band's CD, and we headed home for the evening.

It was late, and I was tired... WW and I got ready for bed. We talked a bit more, and she mentioned again how she was glad I came down, and that she was worried that this weekend wasn't going to turn out so well... We didn't discuss things in depth, but both agreed that further discussion is definitely necessary in the next few days/weeks/months/etc...

Anyway, WW hasn't contacted OM since July 3rd, just before I arrived... At least she didn't talk to him while I was there. I feel that she's open to reconciliation, and I truly believe we can work things out. I'm not sure yet if she plans to keep talking to OM... But, we will discuss it. She is opening up to the idea that we need to live together once I get down there, but she's worried about her lease, and it would be akward to have the two of us, and our dogs, living with two other people. The house is just too small for all of that. She mentioned that we can just pay off her lease, and find a place in town that is central to both her office and mine (as they're separated by 30 miles or so)...

So, I think things are working out well... and I have a feeling they will be getting better.

I noticed that she actually HAD started reading HNHN that I sent her! I put a little note on the page she had marked: "I love you... ... for reading this book!"

Not sure if she's seen it yet, but I have a feeling she will

Also...

WW is looking forward to me visiting again soon... This time, she wants to spend time without Roommate!

BH,

Glad things went well for you this weekend. Maybe you can build on that.

OTOH, don't care about career sacrifices, living apart is a recipe for disaster in a M. It was never meant to be. Your W needs you to be present and a vital part of her life, everyday.

I hope you heed her need for you to be there, in her life and in your marriage.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I'm glad things went well.

You lost me though, did you have your interview on Sat?

Is it typical in your line of work to have an interview on weekends or did they set it up that way because you were traveling? Just curious because I would think most businesses stick to a M-F / 9-5 schdule for interviewing.

My thought is that if they set up a weekend interview for you your chances must be pretty high for actually getting the job if they normally interview M-F

Edited to add: Where we live there is a slim to none chance of ever interviewing on a weekend no matter what type of job a person is looking for.

LC

Yes,

The interview was on Saturday...

Originally, he was going to meet my on the 4th... But, he changed his plans because he wanted to go to a pancake breakfast with his family.

He said he was going to be doing some work on the morning on Saturday, and asked if that was OK.

It's a smaller company, but I agree, the fact that he was willing to accomodate me is a good sign.

Towards the end of the interview, he mentioned that he thought I would be a good fit there.

They just hired one new guy, and he said it takes some time before they can absorb someone else into the system... They are growing quickly, and they had to add two expansion trailers in the back to accomodate the new employees...

I should hear in a week or two.

This is the first time I have posted to you but I have been following your threads and praying for you from the start.

Is there anyway for you to make the move before you get the new job? If you wait the 2 weeks that might be to long. You both had a great weekend, but thats all it was just one weekend. There is no promise of NC. Granted she did not text him while you were there. She might have held off until you left. I would suggest keeping an eye on her phone records until you get back. Even then there are scores of people here (including myself) where an EA was ongoing while living together.

It's sounded like you did a great job of filling her EN's. You diffenentlty left a impression on her and the roommate. Keep meeting them anyway you can. You also did great by keeping talk of the OM to a minimum. This weekend was about the 2 of you.

Speaking of OM did he ever show on the flight?

I was wondering that also.

BH,

You're an inspiration for BHes everywhere. You didn't cower like many do. You didn't fear the fog talk and the threats. You took a stand and fought for your marriage and you saw glimpses of your real W and little of the WW.

You're an example to new betrayed husbands here on how to handle things. You were cool, calm, and thought things out.

You're not out of the woods yet, but you can see the edge of the forest. Did your ex have a PA or was it an EA?

I think an EA is a lot easier for a man to get past than a PA, but they're both tough to work through.

Once again, congrats.

Wish you and your ww the best. Encourage her to come here once she starts having the fog really lift, but others may disagree.

If she's reading HNHN then it's a sign that she may buy into the MB concept, which may open her up to coming here.

I hope she earns the F in WW and becomes a FWW.

Best of luck to you.

No,

OM never showed up on the plane... Guy that sat in his seat was real nice though, but not him...

Thanks for the kind words! I appreciate it...

I realize this isn't over, we still need to talk things through and GET INTO COUNSELING.

We both realize that.

WW has been sending lots of messages today, because she knows I'm in at work and having a rough day (working on the Sunday after the 4th is not cool - I'm glad I was gone, or I'd have been workin ALL weekend).

BH75,

Congrats on the good weekend!

Being the pessimist I am, I can't help but wonder if OM had been on that flight instead of you, would he have been sleeping on an air mattress beside her bed?

Beware of manipulation. She could very easily have put on a show for a couple of days, so you'd never suspect that OM is flying down there next weekend.

I really hope that she's sincere, and that everything works out for you.

Just don't read too much into one weekend. She was saying AWFUL things to you and was still texting OM as recently as Thursday. Don't forget that.

If you want any real chance at reconciliation, you have to get down there now, job or no job.

bump - this was an intersting story. I'm surprised it isn't receiving more attention.

Praying for you, BH75.

I'm glad things went so well. Much better than I expected - OM didn't fly down, you didn't end up in jail, your wife was civil. You had an interview.

I'm starting to have some hope.

Thanks for all the positive comments...

Well... As if my life wasn't already turned upside down...

Today, I got fired from work.

As much as I don't want to blame it on the past couple of weeks, a lot of it has to do with my performance at work the past couple of weeks. I definitely wasn't fully dedicated to work as I should have been, and made some mistakes. (No one was killed - just hurt our company's reputation a bit - or at least could have hurt our reputation).

Found out this afternoon, after I spend all night at work last night.

Anyway, my plan is to rent the house out ASAP and get down to TX ASAP as well. I already have someone lined up for the house, should know tomorrow when they will be able to move in.

The good thing is that I'm eligible for unemployment and will get two month's severance pay.

I'm praying this is God's way of saying that every thing's going to work out, and he's giving me a much needed break before I start a new job (hopefully soon!). It's also His way of telling me to get my butt down there to be with my wife!

Wife seems to be doing well about all of this as well, surprisingly. I think she really had a change of heart this weekend. She has been talking to her aunt (who I exposed to) a lot lately, and I think she is really helping her out.

Minutes after I found out I was fired, my MIL and aunt both texted me to say how sorry they were. MIL and I talked for a half hour on the phone and she thinks that things will all work out for the best, and she sees the silver lining in the clouds that Wife and I will be re-united soon.

Wife always says "everything happens for a reason..." I've always thought it was a silly saying. However, I'm hoping for once that it's all true.

I can only imagine what would have happened this past weekend if:

1) I didn't check WW's e-mail
2) I didn't guess WW's new e-mail password
3) I didn't find this website
4) I didn't get the advice I needed
5) I didn't expose when I did
6) I didn't spend some quality time with WW this weekend

I might still be employed, but it'd be at a job I was truly beginning to hate (because of all the damage it has caused our marriage). It's not worth it all, and I'm learning it the hard way.

All of this stuff is so hard on working people. There have been a bunch that lost their jobs just after D-day. So sorry it happened to you.

But I still think you're going to be happy. Chances are great that your marriage will make it, and if you don't recover it, you will know for sure that you did your level best. I can't think of many men here who tried harder.

Betrayed,
You responded to me the first time I commented, and am glad you had a decent weekend! But some comments, first, I'd lay off the booze for two of you . Second, ignore her roomamate - you were there to see her not her roommate. Third, sounds like she wanted time with you alone and be romantically kissed back - but sounds like you blew it.
Me, well her 63rd birthday yesterday and took her to dinner with high hopes for a nice time for her and us, but No we were talking about the rough conditions at the group home and that the family was not that sympathetic about that, and she said she misses Brandon (the young guy in the group home). I left and called her a taxi and went home. Havent' talked to or acknowledged her since last evening and yah a cold war but I Will not tolerate that. Right now I am ready to ride and I mean like I would love now getting out of here and taking some of our mony for a back pack and buying a horse (which I do not know how to ride) and far north and seeing what we can see and how to survive.. simplyTom for what is worth and who the hell cares-except this cowboy and I;d care a hellof a lot more for the horse.

Not sure where your post is coming from simplyTom...

But I do understand, the roommate did get in the way during the weekend... Oddly enough though, she brought us closer as well... We both felt the same about the roommate tagging along. WW commented that next time we see each other it will have to be without the third wheel!

We had a few beers, nothing more... Well, OK, I had more than a few the first night. But, I'm a happy drunk... WW enjoys it when I've had a few too many! She gets happy to see me come out of my shell once in a while. WW tends to get angry sometimes when she drinks, but she kept herself in moderation very well.

Not sure what kiss I missed? From what I can remember they were all returned, romantically... Unless this is some metaphorical reference, if so, I missed it...

Sorry to hear about your situation, but it sounds like you've got a good plan. Horses are good companions!

Hey Congrats on the wonderful weekend you had, and sorry about your job, however, there's nothing holding you back from joining her now! But, I would listen to the others here. I would keep checking the phone bill and still be in PI mode. I want to believe she is being genuine rather than place you in a false sense of security. Keep us posted!!!!!

Hi BH, I am sorry to hear that you got fired. I think I read that you are an engineer, so am I! The first two weeks after my D-day I couldn't concentrate at all at work. Actually I don't know what I did. Afterwards when I followed up my work progress I realized that those weeks were lost. Luckily enough I did not have a deadline right then so I could compensate by working harder later but if I there would have been something important at that time I don't know what the outcome would have been.

I don't know if everything happens for a reason but I think that you should take care of the opportunities that come in your way. And in the end I have always been happy about the way things have turned out.

BH75 - obviously I am sorry to hear about your job. At the same time, though, I am glad that "one decision" has sort of been taken out of your hands and that now, especially if you are able to rent out the house, there is "nothing" to stop you from being with your wife. Your interview, while down there visiting, also sounds providentially good, but whether THAT job materializes or not, it is, as it always has been, imperative that you and your wife are together.

Those of us who have been through the nightmare of "betrayed spouse-dom" know just how difficult it is to focus on anything other than the infidelity and it's potential ramificatons, and I, for one, would likely have lost my job too as a result of my wife's affair had I not been self-employed. Rough times, financially, may well be ahead, but they also have a remarkable way of cutting through the fog of an affair and of bringing the two of you closer to each other Emotionally, rather than Materially.

This is also a time for introspection, for looking at your walk with Christ as LORD of your life, not just Savior.

You may well find another "silver lining" in this "extra time" you have right now for discovering what it means to "walk with Christ" through the valleys of life.

God bless.

Thanks for the kind words...

I just got a message from WW... Just when things were looking really good... She sent me this:

"I just got an email from OM's dad. I am shocked and really pi$$ed that u sent him an email! That's mindblowingly stupid and assenine!"

Not sure how to handle this at this point. Obviously, OM's dad too k some time to read his e-mail...

I noticed that WW and OM were texting back and forth last night a few times. Not nearly as much as before, but texting nonetheless. This may put an end to it, I don't know.

But, just as WW was starting to like me again, this will be a step backward. Any advice on how to handle this situation?

I understand why she's upset. I want to apologize to her, but I assume that she won't understand my intentions.

BTW:

She sent me this e-mail after the text message:

"Man,...I am soooooooooooooo flipping angry w/you right now reading the e-mail you sent OM's dad. Your behaviour is outrageous. How dare you do all that you have done. How dare you ASSume what you implied. You actually e-mailed OM's contacts airing out dirty laundry. That's outrageous. You have put me many steps back now. MANY STEPS BACK NOW. I think you need a psychological evaluation. I would set one up since you have free time. "

Man, just when things were looking good...

She's angry about her own choices.

It's all just threats and fogbabble.

DO NOT apologise. The affair is HER choice and it is YOUR RIGHT to expose it to everyone.

She is more ashamed than angry.

Remember exposure is to an affair is like light to vampires.

Here is the message I sent to OM's dad:

BH-

As many have said to others when (it's always "when") this happens: your M can survive her anger, but it can't survive having an OP in it.

Hang in there.

Don't apologize for exposure, there would have been no need for exposure if she, and he, were NOT engaged in an affair.

Expect the WS to be angry, they always are. Light shined on "dark deeds" they would rather be kept secret elicits unrighteous anger.

Recovery takes a long time, but it cannot even start until the affair is ended.

Keep monitoring the emails/texts and be ready to present them the next time she gets "angry" and wants to give you the excuse that "she thought things were getting better."

The long haul, BH. Stay focused on the long haul.


God bless.

Why would you want to apologize for exposing the relationship to OM's father? Are you sorry that you followed a Marriage Builder practice to assist you in ending your wife's affair?

She is still in contact with her affair partner. It may be just an EA at this point, but it is an affair. EA or PA does it really make a difference to you? They had made arrangements for him to fly down there to be with her.

When you went down there, you did not even sleep in the same bed as your wife. This gives you a good idea of your place in her life. It certainly sounds to me like she is cake-eating.

You say you understand why she is upset--Why do you think she is upset?

She is still involved in the affair. Wayward spouses are always upset when exposure takes place.

What dirty laundry did you air?? The fact that she and OM were getting together for a weekend? Is that your dirty laundry? I think it is the dirty laundry of your WW and of OM.

If you are still interested in re-building your marriage, I would not apologize. You have done nothing wrong. Stand firm on this. What do you mean that things were looking really good. If she is still in contact with him, how are things looking really good?

I'm sorry, but I have been following this thread and suspected that your relationship with your wife was not going to be re-established easily, based on your trip down there to see her. I was hoping that i was wrong about that. There are some waywards who "get it" quickly and are remorseful and end contact with their affair partner. Others continue their affair in spite of exposure.

Have you exposed to everyone? You might as well make sure that you have done so. As long as she is angry, you might just as well make sure that all who should know about the affair do know about the affair.

BH75:

Your weekend?

Went well. You did the Plan A part very well.

Your WW is cake-eating now.

This line:

No. Notifying Daddy will not put an end to it. It might HELP, but OM must make a choice NOT to do it anymore.

And notice, as soon as you were gone, WW started talkign to OM again.

She put up a good front.

Oh, and the ANGER? Of course. Your reply?

WW:
I am doing everything I can to save our marriage. Letting people know what is going on, and that I am fighting to put US back together, is how we can fix this. When you have ended contact with OM, then I have no reason to talk to others about my efforts to fix US.

Use your own words, but state that you are FIGHTING. That ENDING the EA with OM WILL make you efforts worth it, and your M better.

And then LEAVE IT ALONE.

Do what your HAVE to do.

It is EXCELLENT news that you got fired. Dday for my A was on Thursday. My BS had the following two weeks off already, and sheing the state that she was in, he told my W to take off the rest of Thursday and not to come in Friday.

What did that do? It allowed BS and I to be together. To talk, to learn more about Harley, to soley concentrate on us. Had those two weeks off not been planned, then I believe that our recovery would have started ALOT later and had been ALOT more difficult. We still marvel at the very narrow path that lead us to MB and Dday, and HOW, had somethings not lined up like they did, that WE would have probably blown up. IF, there is a higher power, you could certainly convince me of it AFTER that week.

You may incur more debt in the next few months, as you try to figure this out with your WW. That's ok. It will be cheaper than a Divorce, and you WILL feel better if you give it everything you got to fix it.

LG

Yeah, I guess I am a bit naive to think that this will all be fixed so easily.

Here is my reply to WW:

I wouldn't even respond to her about what she wrote. Just ignore it and it will blow over, just like it did this weekend. She'll get over it, but it's best not to get baited into an argument about it.

OTOH, what did OM's father have to say?

I don't know what OM's dad said...

I'd love to know though.

Surprised he didn't e-mail me too.

To me, the most troubling thing of all is that she's still texting OM at all.

Like I figured, she played nice while you were there, and went right back to being a WW the moment you left.


Maybe it's time for you to start texting OM yourself. No overt threats or anything...just start texting him as if you two are buddies. Be as oblivious as you can, and take a non-response as an opportunity for your next sentence.

"Hi, how r u, OM?"

*no response*

"Me, I'm doing well...there was a killer sale on pork chops at the supermarket"

*no response*

"R these gas prices crazy or what?"


Just drive him into a rage. Make him crazy. Do not stop.


I feel like a moron for even typing things like "r u", by the way. I pray that I never become one of those jagoff texters.

A wste uv tm & prfcly gd abrvtd ltrs.

I'm a big advocate of leaving the OP alone almost always. (If you think they don't know the WS is married would be one big exception, and sending them a copy of a PBL is the other. Oh, of course the NC letter, too. That's about it, though.)

Maybe the text messageing between them started with him digging into your wife about his father finding out what a scumbag he is. Perphaps it was notification saying he can't do this anymore because " Your husband is crazy!" His father more than likely tore him a new one and, in turn, tore into your wife cause he's too much of a coward to face you about it.

Well, my PI buddy is ready to go to bat for you if you decide you need him.

Charlotte

P.S.) And thanks for asking about him because I hadn't talked to him in a while and had been meaning to catch up with him. We walked through fire together. In bare feet!

So like the other thread, on this, everything is back to the drama of communicating with the OM. Forget the OM and just deal with you wife!!!!

You are wasting your time dealing with the OM what does he care about you or your wife?

Stop this insane drama with the OM or is he just the easier of the two to deal with?

Yeah. OM is not worth it. Don't give him free rent in your head.

Charlotte

"I did what I had to do to get the third person out of our marriage"

"Did you get the chance to wear that new outfit yet? You looked so good in it. I can't believe how much I miss you after only three days. Can't wait to get there for good!"

Could be right about the contact with OM last night... Although, I'm sure WW would have checked her e-mail this morning.

WW SEEMS to have calmed down somewhat, and is cordial this afternoon.

Here is her response to my last e-mail:


Anyway, I'm willing to discuss this in counseling with her, and we'll see how normal/insane I truly am. I will tell her that, and nothing more...

I know we need to get into counseling. However, how much of this stuff do we go into before counseling? It will likely be a few weeks until I get down there as I am getting our house ready for the new family to move in. It is obviously a sore subject for both of us to discuss, and given our track record, without a mediator/counselor, we will likely have heated discussions... I'm trying to change my behavior regarding how I act when talking with her, but I know she's not, as evidenced by the letter above.

BTW, WW did let me know that she's wearing one of her new outfits today. She looks great in the stuff I got her. So, I hope she gets lots of compliments, and thinks of me as she's wearing it.

"I'm sorry you feel that way. What movies have you seen recently??"

You need to learn Reverse Babble, there's a thread somewhere and Orchid is our Queen at this.....

Do not apologize for your actions, just let her anger roll off your shoulder. Continue to state your desire to improve this M and meet her needs. Do all this is a firm yet loving tone.....her anger WILL subside....And get your butt down there......ASAP....not a few weeks....get there now.

You've been fired (sorry about that BTW...happens to many here, BS and WS alike...), so you have nothing holding you back from getting your repairs done and getting down there. Set a goal date to keep you on track....and then stick to it. And go down again for a visit asap......

not2fun

Unfortunately, many boneheaded therapists will agree with her take on this. My ex's thought it was perfectly okay for her to remain friends with her OM and even go out to dinner with him at times.

Make sure you either coach with the Harley's or a MB friendly therapist.

Seriously? OM's dad emailed HER? Are you sure? Are you sure it wasn't that OM's dad confronted OM with the email and OM then forwarded it on to your wife? They were texting right?

I think she's major pi@@ed b/c you pointed out the age difference betwen her and OM. LOL (just kidding)

As far as her ranting, well, you knew that would happen. Big deal.

Once she returns to sanity, she will see the sanity in what you've done.

Instead of explaining and defending your actions with a letter that she ignored and reacted 2 with yet more vitriol, this would been a perfect oppor2nity 2 send a plan B letter.

Just my humble opnion.

-ol' 2long

medc is right.

There are many who will look at your actions and look at you as if YOU are from another planet because they don't understand the MB concepts. This includes therapists.

So remember that. I forget sometimes. Then I get "the look" and I remember.

Charlotte

One may be drafted up soon, depending on how this situation fares out.

There aren't many MB counselors in the area... only two within the entire state of TX.

OMF never e-mailed her.

OM called her up and chewed her out b/c his father knows what a crappy son he raised.

OM thinks less of WW b/c of what you did.

That's a GOOD thing.

Her reaction to OM's disapproval was to drop a couple of "You set us back! I'm so angry You're a crazy man!" bombs IN ORDER TO GET YOU TO NEVER DO THAT AGAIN.

Got that?

That means the exposure WORKED!

That means you do it again, if you need to.

Instead of responding to her outrage, I wished you had focused on her contact w/ OM. You could have said, I don't believe OMF wrote you. I believe you have been in contact w/ OM again.

And I am greatly grieved by your lack of respect for me and our marriage.

Oh, and JUST b/c your WW says you took steps backwards, doesn't mean it's true. B/c BH, you didn't step backwards by exposing to his father.

You stepped forward.

More disrespect from her. Don't deal with it. Delete.

BH75,

I thought perhaps I was wrong in telling you to go to plan B prior to your weekend visit. I thought perhaps you had pulled it off with a very good plan A.

With recents developements, I would have to go back to original idea of plan b asap.

Your WW is not concerned about her privacy, privacy is when you go the bathroom and close the door. She is, however very concerned about you invading her second SECRET life and ruining all her plans to betray you behind your back. She is very upset that you were onto her "camping trip" with her AP and spoiling everything.

She made false promises of hope to you this past weekend, and as soon as you were gone, she once again begins txt with her AP. Thus, since there is no commitment to NC, the A continues. And does so, I might add, with a cell phone that YOU pay for, thus enabling her to continue contact. You might want to think about pulling the plug on that account.

In a book from David Carder called "Torn Assunder", he states emphatically that unless the WS has true Godly sorrow for what they have done, there will be no reconciliation. The M may even last many years after, but true R will not happen.

Time for you to take care of yourself. You are so caught up in her drama, she is ruining your life. You even got fired from your job because of all the drama and trauma she is causing you.

I tell you as a fellow BH, SAVE YOURSELF!! Go to plan B and pull the plug on that stupid cell phone. Time to work on you and you alone. You cannot talk or cajole your WW from having an A. She will continue to protect her secret life, as long as it is meeting her EN to do so.

You have given it your best shot. Now take care of your own EN and self respect. LOSE THE DRAMA THAT IS YOUR WW!!!

All blessings,
Jerry

Eta: If you continue to trust your WW who has clearly demonstrated that she is untrustworthy, then she is right, you are insane and need pro help with that.

I agree, this was my favorite part of the letter to OM's father.

Yup, you need to learn to reverse babble. I have bumped one thread up for you.


Reverse Babble

On second thought, I would write another letter to OM and CC his father stating that you told him to stop interfering with you marriage and you found out that he is still in contact with your WW, and that contact needs to stop.

I have been following our story. This latest development is revealing. She is all wrapped up in the idea of a younger guy chasing her as validation that she still has it. It happens. I do agree that you need to get down to Texas asap, no kidding, no lingering.

Your instincts seem solid. You know her, we don't, none of us here know her like you do. On the other hand, you do not know the FOG that has taken over her brain. That makes her an alien. Be careful and keep aloof from the drama she is wallowing around in right now.

The reality is that she is going to get burned and you are the good guy trying to protect her from herself. OM is a sleaze and his dad needs to stay on his case.

Larry

Question - If you divorce, would you continue working and living in the new area?

Yes, I agree, be very careful selecting a counselor. It's amazing how many counselors out there think opposite sex friendships are okey-dokey, and buy into the invasion of privacy thing. To them, marriage is entirely disposable if the individual isn't happy...frighteningly simplistic. Since there are only a couple MB-trained in the whole state, arrange phone consults with one of the Harleys. Your W will feel comfortable talking to them - my Ex even at his foggiest enjoyed talking with Steve.

I'd suggest calling now to set up the first call, because it takes awhile. After the first call, one can arrange weekly calls as necessary.

I highly recommend counseling with the Harleys. The phone consults are MORE effective than counseling in-person, especially if that counseling isn't pro-marriage. I think it's vitally important for you and your W to talk to one of the Harleys. Later, when light dawns on W's affair fog, one of the MB weekend seminars would be invaluable.

BH,

Keep your chin up. Go get a book called, "Man's Search for Meaning". There is a statement in there that hit me like a bullet when I read it. It simply says, "An abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation is normal behavior".

You're not crazy. Your WW is acting abnormal. You reacted "abnormally". I use quotes because you did the right thing, but it isn't normal for you to go and write emails to the parents of your WW's "friends".

You've done what you've had to and you are very sane in your thought process and approach.

Waywards don't like their secret little world to be exposed for what it is and to face the reality of their destructive behavior. They like to tell themselves things like, "I have already decided the marriage is over, so my cheating is ok. But it isn't cheating because I've decided the marriage is over."

There's non stop rationalization happening and your WW is justifying her behavior.

I stood up once to my exww about a relationship I felt was inapporpriate. I am very glad I did and I'd do it again. She respected me for having stated my objections and she stopped the relationship.

When she became truly wayward I was afraid to do the things that needed to be done.

You are hearing things that were said to me nearly verbatim. I contacted all the men my ex had gone out with and this was very upsetting to her. I heard almost all you've been told.

The difference between you and I was that I feared my WW's anger. You see her reaction as a setback, same as I did. It's not. It establishes boundaries and she'll be grateful you stood up to her behavior when the fog clears. Don't cower.

And I'll agree with the others that OM's dad very likely didn't email your WW and laid a new one into his son, who went running to your WW.

Contact between them is completely unacceptable.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Just checked the phone bills...

WW has been talking and texting to OM much more frequently.

The phone plan is still in her name, and she called the company yesterday to combine the two lines. She reset the account password, but not the online password. I don't believe that she knows the two are different. She's asked me to continue to pay the bill, but now I know she's still talking to him, I'm going to pull my phone off the account, and pay for my own line.

Time for Plan B?

We talked last night. We discussed the letter to OM's father briefly. She said, that OM's father e-mailed her and asked why he was being involved. He told her he wanted to remain out of the picture. I found it odd that OM's father e-mailed her, and not me to say such a thing. I'm not sure OM's father e-mailed her, but I'm sure OM did.

Do I tell WW plan B is coming? Or just send her the letter?

I should also state, we never agreed (or discussed) that WW would not contact OM anymore. I asked her to, but she refused. Should I give her one last chance before sending the Plan B letter?

I don't think you need to let WW know that plan B is coming. That would be like warning a child that you are going to punish them when they are doing something that they know is wrong. I think that the Plan B letter will announce it clearly to her.

So sorry that things are going this way for you. You may look back years from now and realize that this was a turning point for the best part of your life yet to come.

Corniest thought keeps coming to mind...Julie Andrews in Sound of Music...she says "Whenever God closes a door, somewhere He opens a window." It fits. There is always hope for the future if you look for it.

HTM

Yes BH, and you are paying the bill for it in more ways than one.
Unless I've miscontrued things here, you told her NC was the very minimum to even begin any recovery.

You state a boundary and your WW waits less than 24 hours before she completely trash's it. A boundary that has no consequence is not a boundary at all, merely a wish.

Pull the plug on cell phone, Plan B and bounce it off Plan B experts here before sending it. Clearly state what will be required for your WW to re-enter the M and R.

Boundaries without consequences are plan hope, not Plan A or Plan b.

Get with Dr H's plans, not BH75's plan(s).

All Blessings,
Jerry

Do not warn her that you're going 2 plan B. Don't give her more chances. Just do it.

And it isn't 2 punish her, it's 2 protect YOU and your love for her.

Don't state anything about her not agreeing 2 NC. Just tell her in the plan B letter that it's a non-negotiable requirement for you 2 stay married 2 her. I would go ahead and tell her that you know they've been in contact, and how you know. You won't be snooping while in plan B. You WILL separate your finances. It'll be up 2 her whether she wants 2 meet your requirements for marriage.

Make sure you post your version of the SAA plan B letter for suggestions. Resist the temptation 2 be wordy.

After you send it, you need 2 stick with it for a period of time, regardless of how hard she tries 2 break your NC. Because even if she agrees 2 your terms for recovery, she'll have 2 convince you. Simply telling you won't cut it.

best,
-ol' 2long

Have you read up on Plan B?

Plan B is usually implemented after the BS has instituted a stellar plan A. The BS goes into Plan B when they feel that the love they have left for the WS is very low and in danger of being eliminated. (Love Bank very low and at risk of becoming empty.)

You need to get yourself set up for Plan B by disconnecting yourself in all ways including financial from the WS. You select an intermediary that the WS can use to contact you if they are ready to re-enter the marriage and accept the boundaries that the BS establishes for the marriage.

You write a plan B letter. There are examples on this site. One key to the Plan B letter is that you make sure that there is a route clearly outlined in the letter back to you and the marriage. You accept ownership of the aspects of the marriage where you are responsible. You let the WS know that you would like to have fulfilling relationship with them and that you believe you are capable of doing just that. Read the example letters on this site though, as I have never had to write a Plan B letter.

There are some concerns I see in your situation. You were not really able to implement a lengthy Plan A--you just had the weekend. You have been advised that it is unlikely that your WW will enter into a recovery program--she has a history of infidelity in that she had a relationship with a married man before she met you. At least that is what I remember from the earlier thread.

In Plan B, you go dark; there is no contact with your ww. None. There is only contact with the intermediary if she agrees to the boundaries that you need. You stop looking at her e-mail, on line phone bill, everything.

Are you ready for all that?

More experienced folks will chime in here I am sure.

Would it be best to wait a while on Plan B?

I wouldn't say my love for her is low or in danger of being eliminated. However, I do not appreciate the fact that she is talking to OM.

My plan is to get down to WW in three weeks. I'm packing the stuff we need, and going to sell the stuff we don't. Either way, I'm getting ready to get down there ASAP.

WW has agreed that we need counseling. She also feels that we must be together to make things work out. However, she still feels that she has the "right" to talk to whomever she wishes.

It would be hard to disconnect from her, and I'm not really sure how she will handle it. I know she will be very upset, and will likely think that I've gone into another stage of craziness. My fear, is that she will totally forget about me, and just find what she needs somewhere else.

But, I guess if that's the case, I'm better off with someone else anyway.

Where's the best place to find an intermediary? Does anyone offer that service? (I thought Penny Tupy did?)

I think this belief may be what Dr. Harley was referring to. The amount of effort it will take and the risk you will assume by moving forward.

This is what I would do if I were in your shoes, and I wanted to have a chance of beating the dismal odds against me.

I would leave the cell phone until Plan B, without saying anything one way or the other about it. I also would not bother to confront her on the continued contact. Usually I am all in favor of confronting, but in this case (with such a short timeline) I don't think it will accomplish enough to be worth the bother.

I would also move down there ASAP, especially if I had a job down there and not at home.

I would be in a hard-core Plan A for a super-short time, like maybe 2 weeks. At the end of that, if contact still continued, which OF COURSE it would, I would go straight into a rock-solid Plan B.

At that point I would stay in Plan B for as long as I felt like it, until either recovery took place or I felt like moving on. I am in favor of going through the process, but much more quickly, since the odds do not favor you, the way they would for most people who come here.

You say your love is not in danger of being eliminated. You say you think she would find someone else if you completely disconnected from her. I think Neak (?) has a good idea about doing an intense and short Plan A. That intense short Plan A would remind her of what she is losing when you do go into a dark Plan B.

When you are ready for Plan B, you need to carefully implement it and remain in no contact. Study up on Plan B. I believe that the intermediary is usually someone that you trust that has a relationship with you. Their role in part is to make sure that you are protected from contact with the wayward. In part, this is to ensure that you do not lose the remaining bit of love you have for them. You need to be kept away from their stupid wayward behavior. The intermediary helps you with this.

If you want to Plan A for a brief time, make sure it is really good. Keeping it short may help you with keeping it stellar. You look good, smell good, do interesting things, talk about interesting subjects, make the best of yourself in general. This Plan A will also really help you be the best person you can be when you go into a dark Plan B. It will help you feel good about yourself and make you a person that that YOU really like and respect. That is key.

Call up OM's father, and talk to him about the situation. Obviously your WW and OM don't want him involved, so you know what that means - you need to involve him. Talk to his mother as well. Didn't your WW and OM work together before she moved? If that was the case, then I would expose to his coworkers what a sleazeball OM is. It's much easier to get OM to ditch your WW because she is no longer worth the effort (he is single and has other options that don't have an annoying husband), than it will be to get your WW to ditch OM. I would ride out plan A for a little while longer (as long as you are planning to move to Austin regardless of your marriage).

Oh, and don't pay for [censored] of hers until she cuts off all contact w/ OM.

I kind of think that's how I feel right now... To wait this out.

WW and I are getting along, our phone calls are longer, she seems to be enjoying talking to me.

Once I get down there, I have a feeling things will be better. The fact that she told me I need to be there, tells me she needs me around.

The weekend we had was great. Honestly, despite Roommate being around, it was one of the better weekends we've ever had (at least in a long time).

Despite what's going on, since we were together, there has been no real fighting. Sure, she has sent a couple nasty e-mails about OM's father being involved, but that's it. We even discussed the issue, without getting angry - that's a huge step for both of us. We talked about things, but decided that we're probably best to bring it up again when we're in counseling.

I know getting down there is the key... I just wish I had that window into her e-mail to know if OM changed his flight to a later date...

sorry to say it...but the weekend was a fraud. It was nothing more than a smoke screen by a WW to throw her BH off the scent and to get him to back off with the exposure stuff. In a nutshell, she was using time with you to buy herself more time with her OM.

Plan B is in order now. YOu are getting to the point where her nasty emails are being explained away as though they are nothing.

The longer you wait to go to plan B...the longer your wife will be bumping uglies with her OM.

BH75,

If your marriage means everything to you...screw all considerations of money and housing and get there NOW. I mean TONIGHT. F all considerations about money. It is paper! Freaking paper!

If things fall through, you can still work things out.

If not, then plod along.

Uhm. Call Steve Harley. NOW.

Do you think that OM just postponed his trip and he may come down at a later date? Your WW probably won't use email anymore, so you might not even know. If you are going to salvage your marriage, you need to live with her ASAP.

I agree w/ Jim.

If you want to try to save this M...

Call OMF.

Don't pay for her phone.

And get your butt down to Texas as fast as you can.

W/ regards to her insistance that she can have whatever friends she wants to, have you asked her why OM said she told him they were D?

Why would a friend lie about her marital status? Or why would a friend say a friend lied about it?

Can we all hope that the reason you have not posted in 2 days is that your to busy driving all your stuff to TX?

If you get a chance give us an update.

Bump.

Report in, when you can. Many of us concerned and hoping you're okay.

I have been busy getting my ducks lined up in a row before I get down there...

Half our stuff is in the garage, ready for a garage sale this weekend. The rest of the stuff we need is about halfway packed, and ready for the moving truck.

I am expecting a call tomorrow from the first company that I interviewed with. I think it may be an offer... Not sure though, will find out tomorrow.

I also found another company that I'm interested in working for as well. It would be a new career, but one that will provide more stability, and will basically allow me to work anywhere I/we want in the future. It'd probably be a reduction in pay for a while until I get licensed, but I'm OK with that, so is WW.

I am planning on getting down there before the end of the month. Just need to find a place to live - not living with WW in her place of residence as they don't accept dogs. WW will probably be ready to move in together once we get going on counseling. She is looking forward to "dating" (me) again and trying to work things out.

She has had some limited contact (that I know about) with OM, but not as much, or as frequent as she had previously.

So glad you checked in. I don't know. Your situation sounds a little shaky since she still has contact with the OM. But I think moving to Texas is a good move. Your state (sadly) has soooo many problems.

The housing market, job market, and economy will be so much better in Texas. I think it will be a whole new start and I hope things work out with your wife.

I'm glad to hear from you too. I am also concerned that she is still in contact with OM, but obviously it's difficult for you to do much about that when you aren't there.

Once you move, be careful of any wild stipulations she may try to make about remaining in contact with him. Given some earlier things she's told you, I think that may jump out of the bag again.

While you're in Plan A, it's perfectly okay to respond to any of her foggy comments with something like, "hmm, I'll have to get back with you on that," or "let me consider what you're saying, and we can talk about it again this evening?" (give a timeframe). Run situations by the wiser crew here for strategizing - admittedly not me! I sucked at Plan A myself under the strain of infidelity.

Stay the course. You have a good head on your shoulders.

Have you had any further contact with OM's dad yourself?

Keep up with "dating" her. You did a great job when you visited for the weekend. Continue what you were doing will be a huge help. I think you need to find a way to push for NC. As long as he is in the picture she can't give you her full attention.

I hate to say it as an owner of several animals. Is there anyway to have the dogs stay with a family member for a while? Or take it to the extreme and give the dogs up for adoption so that you can live with your W right from the start?

Good luck at the garage sale and drive safe.

Mixed signals. From women. I hate it. And it confuses guys.

1. She is stringing you along. WS do this. Almost always.
2. The glow is fading from the A. Normal, especially with the difference in ages.

Take your pick.

Larry

The "dating" thing is key... She told me that my FIL's girlfriend (FIL and MIL are divorced) is excited for us, because we get to "date" again.

I think that's what WW is looking for, from me... To show that I still have creative ideas, and can show her a good time. We talked about it the other night, and we both realize we need to keep this up to keep things exciting.

The discussion was interesting, because she said that she always felt like she was in charge of my social life (i.e. she made plans and I went along with them). Then, she said that everything we did was predictable and boring, and she didn't want that anymore.

The interesting thing to me, is that she's right... she picked our activities (It'd usually come down to a discussion like "what do you want to do... I don't know, what do YOU want to do??). But, she blamed me for things being boring and predictable... I guess she's not too comfortable with her own choices?

Honestly, I enjoy just spending time with my wife. So, we'd usually do something she wanted to do. We didn't have many creative ideas, so sure, it was predictable at times. It wasn't always boring though.

I think the change of location is going to be BIG for us. There are so many fun and cool places where we're going. And, we don't have to drive 3 hours to get to other cool outdoorsy type places.

I'll gladly take over the "date" planning if that's what she needs me to do. We just need to find fun stuff that we wants to do together (which shouldn't be a problem!)

Oh, NO WAY the dogs would get put up for adoption. I'd gladly live in the dumpiest of dumps so long as it meant keeping the dogs. WW and I both would do anything for these dogs. Or, at least I would... We'll see about WW. They mean that much to us both.

At this point, I think I'll go with your option B Larry...

I realize she's still talking to OM... and maybe I'm naive, but I don't think it's the same type of relationship as they had before.

The different thing, is that now she tells me "I was talking to OM, and he told me all about what's going on at work" (Apparently there have been huge shake-ups since she left - lots of firings and demotions as their company just bought another company).

The other difference, is that WW has been talking to me more, and to OM less. For now, that's good enough for me. Once I get down there, I think it will shift more into my favor.

Maybe OM has a secret rendezvous planned before I get down there, but I think that once OM's father and mother found out, things got cold real fast...

I hope it works out for you, but keep this in mind:

No matter how hard you try, no matter what either of you does, things are going to become predictable and "boring" again. That's just how marriage is.

The key isn't keeping things exciting, so much as maturing enough that you don't need things to be "new and exciting" all the time.

I think many spouses cheat because they aren't mature enough to handle being bored. It makes me think of my 7 y.o. son, who whines if he isn't constantly entertained.

At some point, you are supposed to love your spouse more than you love "new and exciting".

Many people never grow up enough to get to that point.

It's a shame to see any BH settle for crumbs, especially after they took such decisive action to put themselves in a much better position.

I'm sorry, but I think you're making a HUGE mistake by making such life altering decisions with a wife who is still very WAYWARD.

Krazy,

This is good!


May I borrow it sometime?

S&C

I agree.

She needs to agree to some things before you go down there, or you may be wasting your time:

NC, of course...she's got you to the point where she's filling you in on her conversations with OM? Are you kidding me? 2 years after d-day my FWW won't even say OM's name...even if it's a different person with the same name.

Transparency - Full access to cellphones, computers, etc...shouldn't be a problem if she's not involved in an A.

I'm not an animal-hater, but I'd sell that dog to a Vietnamese restaurant before I'd let it stop me from living with my wife for even one day.

Since she's had zero repercussions for her actions so far, she's likely using this entire time to figure out how to do what she wants to do after you move there.

Throw her a curve ball and feed her a story about how you found a home for your dog, so you can live with her right away. See how she reacts.

Good luck to you.

S&C,

Use it however you see fit!

this is sad beyond measure. I agree with Myrev 100%.

I see you picked up on that one too.

Seriously, how do you stand there and have a conversation with your WW about her and OM's most recent phone conversations??? Un - freakin - believeable!!!

What the he11 happened to the BH75 that was ready to fly to Texas to confront the OM and blow up their A?

another BH that has lost his nuts. It is an epidemic on these boards.

I think it's probably desperation...he's walking on eggshells, and tolerating anything she throws his way to try and "win her back". It doesn't help that infidelity makes you lose your mind.

I've been there...it's easy to get pigeonholed into the butt-kisser role, and it seems like she's playing it to the hilt. My W did, before I knew about the ongoing A.

He states that he knows of some limited contact. Not that he actually had conversations with her about HER conversations with OM. He was still able to monitor her cell phone via online and show the text messages (calls??), so perhaps that is how he knows of the limited contact?

K~

Perhaps you didn't read BH75's own words at the top of this page.

Closure contact is typical and to be expected in this situation.

His WW is being defiant as are most WW's.

As long as she doesn't follow through with a PA, then it's tolerable to an extent (if I were in your shoes and I was at one point). When you SEEM to be winning the war you can't march off the battlefield when EVERYTHING doesn't go your way.

MAYBE

I HOPE he's right and it's tapering off and over. It might not be and that IS a huge risk. But what's the risk really? He doesn't want to stay in Detoit anyway. They don't have kids. They ARE talking a lot and he's getting in a good Plan A.

Carry on BH. There are always BH's on MB that WISH they had behaved differently back in the day, myself included. I wish I had been tougher, but those regrets are long past. I know NOW tougher woulda worked but I understand you not having the confidence right now to remain as tough as you've been. I've been there. You won't know if this is a mistake for quite some time and there IS risk. As long as YOU are aware of that and your eyes are open, then you'll be fine.

I also presume you won't tolerate this forever. That it WILL become a boundary for you as you process this and get to the same city with your wife. Put it on your list..."I will tolerate nothing less than NO CONTACT with OM for life [eventually]"

Mr. Wondering

Yeah, BH, and you'll be in TEXAS!!! It's a WHOOOOOOLE other country!!!!

Plenty of great MBers here in this state fer guides if'n yuh get a hankerin' to explore and whut-not.

Charlotte

Yep, you are right.. I totally missed that.. Just went back, before I read your response, and saw that he did state she was telling him she had talked to OM, and was coming back to offer my apologies for my misunderstanding.

Thanks for the clarification.

K~

I feel contact now is tolerable... But, not for much longer. Once I get down there, and we get into counseling, I hope that our counselor agrees with us that it needs to stop! If it doesn't stop, then so will any support from me... But, for now, I am accepting it as it is.

If I ever find out EA went PA, I'm filing for divorce. I'm not sticking around for working through those issues. Someone else can have her.

I believe our biggest problem is communicating our needs to each other. I believe everything I've read in HNHN, and think those things will help to make our marriage stronger. We are both guilty of a LOT of Love Busters, and those also need to be addressed (that will be THE hardest part to overcome for us).

The A to me hurts, yes... but I understand that there are so many other underlying issues. And, if we would have fixed them years ago, I'd have never found this board. I am positive we can fix them. If I'm wrong, well, at least I know what not to do in my next marriage. I think she's going to be the one to have a hard time with adjusting.

I have contacted one (only?) of the MB counselors in the area, but have had no reply...
We may have to pay for one of the Harleys for counseling.

I can only hope whatever counselor we end up with will understand all these techniques.... Otherwise, she's sure to pin me as the crazy one for my behavior, esp if the counselor agrees with her that it's ok to talk to other guys in this sort of capacity.

Can't imagine how that would ever work in our favor.

Some of my mood change has come because I have been busy taking care of myself.

I realize that this is not the greatest situation for a 32 YO young man to be in. If things work out, GREAT.... If not, I WILL find someone else, especially in the area I'm moving to.

All is not lost.

I have found a place that's within walking distance to WW's residence. Sure, we won't be living together (at first) but we will be able to see each other and talk, spend time, etc as much as we want.

She is open to living together... Just not yet. She wants to get into counseling and start repairing everything before she makes that leap.

The most important thing to me right now is that she's willing to go to counseling. Once we get in, I hope that things start changing for the better.

Also,

thanks for the insight about being bored and married...

I agree, I do believe it's a maturity thing.

I've never been bored at home, because I have everything inside myself, and at home that I need to be happy and entertained.

Unfortunately, for my wife, there's an emptiness, that she doesn't realize. Not sure why, or what capacity... but she seems to always crave attention, and needs to be having "fun" especially now.

She wanted to get away from me for all the "drama" we had in our relationship. The stories she tells me about her roommates and all the goings on at her new place dumbfound me, because there is more drama going on there in two months than there has been with us in 2 years.... And yet, she seems to be fine with it.

Anyway, just more for us to cover in counseling...

So, when is the date you're planning on going down there? Any word on the job prospects?

Ain't that the truth! No place better than Texas!

What leap? It's not like she hasn't lived with you before...she's your wife, for pete's sake.

You are uprooting yourself, moving halfway across a continent, and on top of all that you're now a BH.

But make sure she doesn't have to leave her comfort zone for a fraction of a second.

WSs can be very bold, sometimes ridiculously so. I walked in on my FWW and OM because I went to lunch about 45 minutes early. They had barely gotten "started" when I got there.

She had actually PLANNED to be done within 15-20 minutes of my regular arrival time.

This is while we were living together. I wonder what she might've tried if I lived "within walking distance"?


I don't mean to be a downer, but if your W is so inclined, she could be setting you up for a HUGE fall. Best of luck to you.

I gotta agree with Krazy again.

PLEASE ... LISTEN ... to the "voices of experience".

YOU are doing EVERYTHING ... SHE is doing SQUAT!!!

... and FWIW ... counselling is a waste of time and money, ESPECIALLY since your WW is still WAYWARD.

I'm sorry, but verifiable NC should be a BOUNDARY for you to take another step towards R.

If you want to move to TX for a new job and fresh start ... GREAT ... but I wouldn't do another thing, except send WW a Plan B letter, UNTIL NC was firmly in place. Anything less, and you're just CONTRIBUTING to the problem.

BH,

I am not knocking anybody here, but I think there is some latitude in the MB principles. I think you like me think of the principles as lines instead of dots, goals not events.

When I was going through my trial, though it was very painful, I did make choices to be patient. I took lots of grief from the pros here for it too. I just figured there are things I could always DO at some point but once done it is not possible to UNDO. I did ask myself "what if" afterward. If I had done X, like the pros said, would it have ended quicker? Or would it have sent her packing for good? I will never know.

Anyway, I have read your posts and you have a similar analytical mind as I do. You will need to make the decisions you need to make based on that analysis.

I have not been posting for awhile but recently came out to help someone on the boards when I was posting that has new developments. I've been following your threads for some time and thought I would add my 2 cents.

SBS

Sucks, but it seems to be universal with Waywards. The BS has to do it all for awhile. In my case, patience in this area has paid off and my FWW is once again a giver, not just a taker.

BH,

I would encourage you to be consistent in your message. You are wise not to argue about it, wise not to demand it, but also very wise to send a consistent message.

Establishing NC is a process. A consistent message will get that for you.

Why do I say this? You have communicated at one time that NC was needed and now you have communicated that it is alright for her to continue to talk to OM and to tell you about it.

A consistent message will get you what you want. She will also begin to develop respect for you and begin to take your interests into consideration.

Taking others interests into consideration will be an important step for your WW based on her past.

How did the gargage sale go? Have you heard anything on the job prospects? Are you still planing on being in TX by the end of the month?

Did your wife ever get abused as a child sexually?

Her need for male attention is very common in women who have suffered from childhood sexual abuse. You may ask or look into it. The research on the subject is very eye opening.

So, I will be ending this chapter of my life soon enough...

Knew something wasn't right this weekend...

First WW told me she'd be going out of town with her roommate. Then, Friday she called and said how sick she was. She had come down with the flu...

Contact was limited all weekend... Thought something was fishy.

I did some investigative work, and found that OM was down there this weekend.

I will be filing for divorce as soon as possible.

Sorry to hear about this...but not surprised.

Get yourself a great attorney and let them handle this in a manner that will afford you the best settlement with the least hassle.

The sooner you get on with your life, the better.

I'm so sorry to hear this.

In June, you said:


I guess you know it's now a PA. But just FYI, there are plenty of BHs here that have recovered their marriages even though it was a PA. Your choice though as to whether you want to go there. It's totally understandable. Even Dr. H says not all marriages are meant to be saved.

I think your wife is an idiot.

And all her charm was a smoke screen for a "fling." Oh the twisted mind of a wayward. Sorry to hear this, and I am not at all surprised. Don't change your mind.

Larry

Sorry to hear this. I was sincerely hoping you caught things before they got to this point.

An EA is much easier to get past than a PA.

You'll go through stages of second guessing, but it's time to walk away from this one. You're young and have no kids.

Don't disappear from these boards. There have been many men like you who have come back after about a year of being alone and have found a new love and are carrying on with their lives and as happy as ever.

So right now you will see darkness and feel tremendous pain, but things will get better and you can have a great relationship armed with MB knowledge and principles to put into practice.

Best of luck to you.

Keep us up to date on your sitch.

I'm so sorry. What city are they in? Should I send someone to go beat him up?

He lives in Michigan.

She lives in Texas.

I would still expose again to OM's father (don't CC OM and your WW) and your WW's aunt. Just make them face the consequences of their actions.

Just called OM's mother... Talked to her for about 3 minutes.

Told her that her son went to visit my wife in TX. Told her that I had sent Dad an e-mail about a month ago letting him know of his son's actions. I told her that I was filing for divorce from WW because of this situation.

She said it was news to her, and she seemed a bit shaken up.

I let her know that son would be back later this afternoon if she wanted to talk to him about it.

She took my name and number. I doubt I'll ever hear from her again, but at least she knows her son is a scumbag.

I'm so sorry, BH.

At least you can walk away knowing you tried.

Good job on calling OM's mother. I wouldn't stop there.

Does your WW know you know yet?

Dear BH,
I am sorry that you are going through this. I respect the way you have handled the situation. As others have said, you can walk away from this relationship knowing that you did everything you could and that you took the high road. Get a good attorney and don't waste or give away any of your resources. Remember, that you may have a family some day and you will want to possess your resources for this potential future family.

Regards,

What a piece of work she is though.

Encouraging you to move across the country even though she never had any intention of acting like your W.

She thought that all your efforts including uprooting yourself to chase her was worth it to you b/c she was all that.

Good gravy does she need a reality check!

BH75,

That really sucks. I know how tough it is.

I'd do everything I can to make OM's life as difficult as possible, within the bounds of the law.

The [censored] knew you knew, and went anyway.

I agree with those who've said "Don't change your mind".

Don't even talk to her again. Just have her served with divorce papers.

Can you get your job back?

I agree with what Marsh said. She wanted her cake and eat it too! Isn't that why we call it "cakewalking"? She thought that she was "all that" and liked the attention of both of them, I'm sure. And all the efforts that BH was making probably gave her ego such a boost.

This is a classic case of whey we say that contact has to end!!

She was living her little fantasy and having her own H chasing after her just made her more evil, IMO.

So sad!!

Sorry BH. I hope that you will be ok soon.

I agree.

Don't talk to her again.

B/c if you do, you will have a difficult time resisting Plan Fing her. Let her last memory of you be a positive one.

Once she realizes you're finished w/ her, the memory of how kindly you treated her through out this will leave a lasting sting.

Where as if you Plan F her, she will be able to tell herself that she is well rid of you.

As of this moment, cut ALL financial support.

Even cancel her cell phone if possible.

Do not, I mean DO NOT answer any calls from her as she will be setting you up to some sort of seperation agreement in HER favor.

This is her mess, let her enjoy ALL of it's consequences as OM will probably not contact her again as he got what he wanted.

Now the reality needs to set in for her, she got used, her fantasy is crumbling and she threw away the only real aspect of her life.

It's time to let her free fall all the way to the bottom, however far that is.

This morning, I called the airlines to get the flight information, and found out that OM was down there, and returning this afternoon.

Once I found out, I called WW. She didn't answer her phone, so I said... "You have a lot of explaining to do... consider yourself divorced." That was it.

She sent me a text message basically saying "I am busy right now... What are you talking about? Thanks for ruining my Monday." I responded by saying "OM: Flight to TX on Friday, Return flight today, ring a bell?"

I told her I was filing for divorce, and not to contact me. I sent her an e-mail later saying I was no longer paying for her credit cards, vehicle insurance, cell phone, etc. I told her that I will continue to pay for the furniture we have on credit as I am in possesion of said furniture. I told her that I will also continue with renting the house, as we had agreed. I told her that I'd be seeking an intermediary to handle any questions she may have, and for her to never contact me again, and I will see her in court as necessary. Once we go to court, we can figure out how to handle the dogs, and the house.

I don't want my old job back.

I'm happy not working there anymore. I have two possible jobs lined up where i'm going.

I'm trying to decide if I still want to go there or not. It's going to be a hard decision as I wanted to go there, not just because she was going there. We decided last year, it's where we wanted to be.

I don't feel the need to bring anyone else into this. Besides OM's mother, I've contacted WW's aunt, and best friend. I have the support of WW's mother - she agrees, I do not deserve to be abused like this from WW. WW's aunt also feels the same way and they have been supportive to me and my feelings.

WW is trying to apologize for her actions. She has told me she is sorry that she hurt my feelings. She said that she even looked into booking a vacation in Mexico (at the resort we were married at) and while she did it, OM was by her side. She is saying that it's a shame that I am giving up on going to counseling. She thought that was the route we were taking to resolve this issue. I told her that she went way beyond what help counseling could provide and that I will never be able to trust her ever again, so I am going the divorce route.

I don't buy it, obviously, but she is now realizing what she has done and seeing the implications of her behavior.

Does anyone know who I can contact regarding an intermediary of sorts? I don't want to talk with her anymore and would like to hire someone to handle any communication between the two of us, if that's possible.

I just let my attorney handle it all.

I didn't pay for any of her expenses, not even the house.

Pay ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that you don't have your name on.

NOTHING, until ordered by a judge when the LSA comes about and that'll take months if you play it right.

Yes, a lawyer.

the AIRLINES gave you his flight information????

There's a giant pile heading towards a fan.

I'm sorry you're going through this. But you're young enough to recover.

It will hurt a lot, but you will get past this.

Any response or confrontation with WW?

I thought I'd share with you the story of a man I greatly respect. He was a colonel in the Air Force and had a tremendous amount of power because he was THE number 2 guy in the inspector general's office. In other words, other officers of all ranks shook a little bit and perked up when they knew he was coming around.

He called me a few months ago because he saw I was no longer a pilot and flying in the AF. I explained what happened to me and he told me his story.

He had a WW. This WW was messing with a friend of his. He discoverd this and kicked her to the curb faster than you can say divorce.

He didn't see her again for almost a year. He saw her when they were going to sign their D papers and told me that she had gained tons and tons of weight while they were separated.

He had his final words to her, which weren't too kind, in court that day and he's never looked back with regret.

I know it isn't that easy, but you seem to have a very strict boundary she's crossed and there's no looking back now that she's crossed it.

I applaud you for being strong. I grive for you for the suffering I know you're feeling.

Keep your chin up.

Yes, I obtained his flight information by calling the airlines.

Was pretty simple really. Took about 5 minutes.

Really?
What did you ask/say to the airline?

First, I went through all the computer stuff (automated response system)... Spelled OM's name, said where I was departing from, and where I was going. Just took a gamble that he was leaving there today.

It found a few reservations with his last name, so it asked the first name. Then, I got kicked to a live person.

I said "Hi, I've lost my confirmation number, I was just wondering if you could give it to me."

She asked my name, so I gave his, and asked if I knew what time my flight left. I told her it was leaving in a couple of hours, and I just wanted to double check.

She then gave me the confirmation number and said the flight actually was leaving at 3:00 or so.

I said thank you, and was able to look online to see when he flew down there, and when he was really coming back.

The only things they asked me were: name, departure city, arrival city... No questions about SSN, or anything I didn't already know. I was pretty surprised myself.

I had thought about calling the airport, to page him, and see if he would pick up a page, but this was much easier.

HA HA! So much for "Homeland Security!" This is why I don't fly.

Sorry about all this mess, BH. If you need any other evidence for your D I'm sure my PI friend would be happy to help you out.

Charlotte

BH75,
So sorry you had to find out the truth in this manner, but I can't say I'm shocked that this was indeed going to happen. When a WS refuses to give up ALL CONTACT FOREVER AND FOR LIFE, you can rest assured that the A is still ongoing and they are just going to hide it more deeply.

This why many us us kept harping about NC, and that even a "little" was not acceptable!

Seems she just plotted to just postpone her "camping trip" with OM to a different weekend.

Cancel that cellphone account ASAP. Do not pay for anything that in any way enables her ability to carry on this A in your face.

GET A REAL BULLDOG FOR A LAWYER!

All Blessings,
Jerry

Yep.


Yep.


Yep!!!!

I just want to commend you for the diligence in your efforts. You are an intelligent man. You've done a great job at gathering your intel.

DANG !

What do you mean when you say you are paying for "the apartment"? Are you saying you are paying her rent? I would see a lawyer. Do not make any promises to her regarding what you are going to pay or not pay. Don't talk to her about this stuff, especially right now. In fact, just don't talk to her about this stuff.

Talk to your lawyer.

Are you sure you want that info on here about how you got that other information??? Has WW been to this site?

Have you rented that apartment that is 5 minutes from her place?? Have you put down a deposit or anything yet? Might want to think about that... you need some breathing space before you decide if you are going to live that close to her.

Did I say I was paying for her apartment?

If so, it was a mistake, I'm not paying for anyone's apartment.

Actually, I sent the deposit for my place the other day... Check's in the mail as they say, and the "check" was a money order...

I have a lot of thinking to do. If I have to eat the first month's rent in a place I never live in, so be it. That's the price to pay I suppose.

I told her today that I am not paying for any of the bills that don't have my name on them. I am continuing to pay for the house. Should I charge her half? I am also paying for the furniture that's in our name (of which, it is ALL in my possession at this point).

Other than that, we have no other joint accounts.

bh, did you have an intermediary? Have you talked to this person? Since you told WW to never contact you again, I admit I'm just curious how big of an 'oh sh*t' moment she had. (Sorry, don't mean to be insensitive)

fwiw, I think living in Texas is better than living just about anywhere, especially if you'll be up in the Austin, even Dallas, area. Better cost of living, better weather, prettier girls...

Oh please don't move anywhere close to this woman. Yes, you can move to Texas, but it's a big place. Please choose another town!

I have to admit I was worried when people were recommending you moving down to be near her. I never saw any indication that she was ready to act like a married woman.

You are in a painful spot, and I feel for you, but thank God you don't have to sort through this mess with children in the mix. (Please tell me there's no chance she's pregnant.)

How old is your soon to be ex-wife? She acts like a teenager. What did you see in her (internally) when you married her?

BH,

First, I applaud you in that very brilliant "social engineering" that you pulled off. Awesome stuff, but it made me cringe a bit as a former IT security guy. It reminded me of the former hacker tricks like, "I'm with the IT department and we're checking the security of users passwords. Can you give us yours so we can check the security against the criteria?"

Or better yet, "I'm Joe Schmoe from Nigeria and our family picked you to hold $5 million in an account if you can help us?"

Stuff like that.

Don't worry about things like house payments. That all comes out in the divorce. She is liable for half the marital debt. So keep making the payments and don't charge her anything because it will all come out in the wash anyways.

Stay strong and ditch this cheating wretch.

Nothing irritates me more than an unrepentant adulterer man or woman.

I like seeing those that do come here and work to earn that F in WW or WH. I have tremendous respect for them and the effort they're willing to make.

Wow, looks like all he did was change his orginal dates. So much for golfing in South Carolina. I'm sooo sorry this happened to you, man! I'm surprised she didn't try to give you some back-story?

BH75 - I am deeply, humbly, so very sorry you're having to experience this. It isn't a club where we "like" to get new members.

The range of emotions you are (and have been recently) feeling are exhausting. Take care of yourself - REST, eat and exercise. Your analytical way of processing information serves you well, but it also tires the mind. Protect your spirit with health.

Your W is extremely foggy. Even if she's had an "oh sh*tte* moment, it's just that she's been caught, NOT that she thinks she's done anything wrong. Her sense of entitlement is strong.

You're getting a lot of support here, and you know yourself this is the best way - but I simply wanted to chime in and add my support - NO CONTACT. Definitely an intermediary (ask your attorney's office how that would be handled in order to avoid any surprise billing).

BH,

Sorry to hear about the contact. The decision to D or not is your choice to make. With no kids and her continued contact I would probably do the same thing.

Now is not the time to have an contact with her. All communication should come from an intermediary.

Take care of yourself and keep posting. This site will also help you heal from the D process and become a better H if and when you decide to go that route.

Just wanted to chime in and say they reported today that Texas has 4 of the top 6 cities in the country to buy a house in (cost of living, cost of home, etc.) - Houston, Austin, San Antonio and Dallas. Just sayin'...

Doesn't Texas have extremely high property taxes though?

Yes, Texas does. But it does not have income tax. A healthy sales tax as well. There is no free lunch, the money has to come from somewhere.

Now if you want taxes come visit the "left coast". California has a deal for you, you won't believe.

JL

Huh? Compared to what, California, Florida or New York?

Sheesh!

Larry

Success! Poliical discussion moved to Other Topics. Have at it...

Good job.

Sorry for your trouble.

Thanks, Marshmallow!

Just curious, what set off your Spidey senses that something was going down over the weekend?

Are you around? Please update us.

So...

I have made the move. I have had some job interviews that went well, but no offers yet. I hope to see at least one within a week or two, but will keep looking until I am working.

I have not filed for divorce. I did not want to hassle with living in Texas, and having divorce proceedings in Michigan.

Texas law states that you must be a resident for 6 months before filing in the state of Texas.

While it is hard (if not impossible) for me to believe, WW swears that nothing physical took place before herself and OM. How could I ever prove that something did? And, it's impossible for her to prove that nothing happened.

From what I can tell (phone records) WW has not had contact with OM since July 26th... Still, that's 5 days after I found out her little secret.

Is this WW "speak"? Is this something typical of a WW that has had a PA with OM, and got caught?

WW and I have decided to go to counseling anyway (since neither of us can file for divorce until the end of the year). I have made it clear that if we cannot get past this situation with OM, we will end up divorced. After I discovered that OM was visiting her, she has turned around, and says that she is committed to saving the marriage.

Now that I am somewhat settled, we will start counseling ASAP (hopefully next week). Any discussion of OM is being held off until we get into counseling, only because we cannot talk about it without arguing. She still has never apologized, or expressed any remorse for having OM come to visit. Her "excuse" was that OM had a ticket (that he changed dates for) and needed a place to stay. She insists that he slept on the couch, and spent his free time golfing.

Again, I don't buy it. I have told her over and over that if she wishes to work things out, she needs to be open and honest about everything. If I sense any BS, I'm not going through any more counseling, and will wait for my time to file for divorce.

This is a hard decision for me... In the meantime, we have been spending a lot of time together. It is like we are dating again, and it is good (for the most part). However, I still have this lingering sense of what I think happened on that weekend that OM was down here.

FWIW, I already have a small network of friends here. I have joined a band, and get along great with the other members. I've been here less than a week, so the friendships aren't that strong. If worse comes to worse, at least I have some source of support if needed.

Hopefully, I will be working soon. I have been too busy getting myself settled in to think too much about the situation. WW has been great, and helpful as well.

My only problem, is that I don't know what to expect from her if a) the affair did go physical or b) if it didn't go physical.

While snooping in WW's room, I found a box of condoms in her drawer... my heart raced when I found it, until I saw that it was unopened. So, maybe she is being truthful? Sure, there's always the chance that they had unprotected contact with each other, or they had a different box of condoms for the weekend...

Is there a chance it didn't go physical? Is it slim/highly unlikely? What things will she say/do if it did? What things will she say/do if it didn't? If things did go physical, what are the chances she'll admit it? Especially, if she knows that I WILL divorce her if she ever admits it... Will the guilt eat her alive for years to come if she keeps it in (and if counseling somehow helps us)?

How would I ever know the truth? I thought of posing as a "clinic" based here in town and calling OM to tell him that someone he recently may have had contact with tested positive for and STD and tell him that they wanted him to know, and to get tested as well. His reaction could tell the whole story...

Yeah, I know, it's likely I'm wasting my time and money seeing a counselor. But, I figure I'm willing to see what comes out of this while I wait for my six months of residency to kick in. And, if anything I learn skills that will be needed for any future relationships to prevent this nonsense from ever happening again. I also know that I am not sticking to my guns... I suppose it's human nature, or maybe just my nature...

Glad you came back and gave an update.

Did she have sex with him? No idea. She could be telling you the truth. It happens. Openness and Honesty are going to be hard to prove for quite some time. Look at her actions towards you. Does what she "does" say that she loves you? Is she trying to meet your needs. Has she sent a NC letter to OM? Are you meeting her EN's and not LB'ing?

Time will tell if she is being truthful or not. At least you know that you have done your part to change. You are becoming a better man and husband.

You are still in my prayers.

Polygraph.

And she is lying.


and it is also a HUGE mistake.

Hey!!! Welcome back, Dude! I've been wondering what happen to you! Yeah, you guys need to get into conseling. A lot of things you're descibing don't add up. First, you know about the lie with OM coming to visit. When you found out that MO was orginally going down there, didn't she tell you that he changed the flight and was going to South Carolina to golf? Lie number 1. If was going to R with you, why wouldn't she tell him it was over and if he was going down there "just to golf", he needs to stay somewhere else. That didn't happen. And, if he slept on the couch, why would she need a box of condoms. Have you asked her about this? She may try to counter this as proof that nothing happen because the box was unopened, doesn't mean that he didn't bring his own, or convinced her not to use them because he doesn't like them. I don't mean to be so negative, but, I think you still need to have the hard questions answered. You need to tell her that you need complete honesty, even if it's going to hurt really bad, so you can work through it. If not then you need to make some hard decisions. Did you ever contact the MO why the he77 he went down there to stay with you're wife. You might be able to get the truth out of him. However, most here will probably counter my question stating that there's no point in contacting OM. Just my opinion!

Why did she buy the condoms in the first place? That would be the first question I ask in counseling.

Let's be honest, if the shoe was on the other foot, if your wife knew you were having an EA with a girl and she came to visit you on a weekend. Do you think she would believe you if you said she slept on the couch? I think not.

I've been wondering about your situation. Glad you updated!

Why torture yourself wondering?? For the very reasonable price of a polygraph, you won't have to wonder any longer. Your wife's reaction when you tell her you have one scheduled should be quite telling.

And for the record, I don't believe the no sex story. She had the intent (condoms are proof) and the opportunity (weekend sleeping alone together) so what on earth would have stopped it? People in the throes of illicit luvvvvvv do not go through that much trouble to hang out like they are 6th grade girls at a slumber party.

Of course I could be wrong, but seriously doubt it.

Polygraph!!!!

Thanks for the update, BH. I have been wondering lately how it was going with you.

Charlotte

Oh yeah! I forgot she fed you some BS story about going out of town with her roommate, but "suddenly" became ill. She's got the whole place to herself for the weekend, he came down for the weekend and he was alone with your wife, and he slept on the couch! And she is a married woman geographically seperated from her husband, what would she need a box of condoms for? Plus, all the suggestive e-mails prior to the trip describing what they are going to do to each other when they finally get together. How stupid does she think you are, Dude? I would call the OM and say, " What gave you the right to come to Texas and sleep with my wife?" then see what he has to say about that! You might get your answer cause she's only going to confirm what you can prove.

Hiya BH:

Welcome to Texas.

Polygraph. I had cause to check out one in Dallas who told me 85% of appointments are never done because the spouse will confess.

She boffed him without a condom. I would bet money on it. Have her go get STD testing up to and including HPV virus and clamidia. Don't do the deed with her until she is tested unless you already have, in which case go get tested yourself.

He is single. Something like a very high percentage of singles have one or more STDs including herpes, which is almost epidemic in the number of cases.

With all the pressure you put on her, she must think you are a doormat to do what she did in the face of that, then after she has had her thrill with the younger guy, attempt to manipulate you back into her clutches. I dated a poison pill just like that at one point in time. I was infatuated with her. On the other hand, I wasn't married to her, so the infatuation was easy to cure. I then learned why she was divorced; couldn't keep her panties on.

I decided that fixing her on my emotional dime wasn't worth it. Guess you could say I jumped from the frying pan into the fire because I then married my current wife, who put horns on my head five years into our marriage. I then learned that at least half the guys I saw on the street were cockolds.

*sigh*

Anyway, my smeller tells me that not only is your wife being disrespectful with what she did, she is compounding it by lying her face off and sucking up, most likely for financial reasons. It looks as if the fling was for entitlement reasons instead of infatuation. That is really, really BAD as a prognosis for the future of your relationship. A female who slides into an affair for emotional reasons can be fixed with a whole lot of pain and effort. One who does it because they can is poison, toxic, to be avoided at all cost.

Larry

It's a little hard to tell you what to do. I think we sometimes hang in there in a situation that is pretty clear cut just out of the pride of "hearing the truth for ourselves" than for just getting out of a messed up situation.

You have no kids with this woman. You're young. She's disrespected you in the worst way a spouse can disrespect and betray another.

The box of condoms speaks volumes of her intent.

Unless that's some sort of birth control you guys use, it had no place in her house unless she was planning on breaking them out with the OM.

Now you can't really expect her to be honest with you if you hold this ultimatum over her head that if she tells you she had sex that you'll divorce her and expect her to be honest with you if they did do something. There's no incentive for her to be honest.

A different approach would be to tell her that you have no guarantees on what you'll do but you do know that if you continue to believe that something happened and that she's hiding things that you will never move forward and forgive. She needs to come clean and you will then decide for yourself what you'll do but you can't promise forgiveness. What you do know is that not knowing and not hearing the truth will eat at you forever and will lead to the destruction of your marriage.

I still think you're young and should bail and learn from this and find another woman with morals.

But if you're willing to giver her a chance, then drop the ultimatums. You won't get the truth out of her otherwise unless the ultimatum is that she come clean or you'll leave. THAT is the way to guarantee you'll leave. The truth shouldn't be.

You're not a dumb man. Yes, the closed box of condoms is a good sign. But that doesn't mean anything.

Good advice.


Better advice.

Polygraph. Either she takes it, or you're out of her life forever. What have you got to lose?

Please don't be taking the attitude that you need to get back together with her. You don't. You're trying to reconcile with a proven liar, cheat, and sneak. Do you deserve that?

If you must, just stay friends for now. Do the counseling, but skip all else for several months. And polygraph. Otherwise, you'll never feel safe again.

Didn't you say that when you were there visiting (the weekend the OM was originally planning 2 fly down), that you stayed elsewhere? I could be wrong, don't remember.

The OM stayed there because they planned 2 have sex.

Your WW's roommate is an enabler, big time. Your W needs 2 move out, or toss the roommate out.

Still, I can't figure out why you're still trying, but it's your life and your lesson 2 learn.

-ol' 2long

Any updates on your situation?

Wife has been nice, and is trying to do things to meet my needs. She is different... But, I don't know if it's just sucking up to keep me around. She has been more affectionate towards me, and for the first time in a long time, she said she is looking forward to having sex with me again (more on that later). She feels that being here has made her happier than she's been in years, and that she feels more "liberated" sexually... I supposed it COULD mean that OM got her hormones all worked up too. I honestly don't know what to think...

I have not been paying any of her bills. She has been responsible for all of her "stuff" since I found out OM came to visit. She may be sucking up to get her financial needs met (I'm not paying for her stuff, but she has let me piggyback on her gym membership so I can save money - she thinks it's a pretty crappy situation for her, she's helping me, and I'm not helping her by paying some of her bills). Either way, she is getting a healthy dose of "single and broke" right now. I do take her out to eat and to see movies, but that's been the extent of my financial support.

I have brought up the subject of taking a polygraph... I first brought it up after I found out. I mentioned it, and she said she'd take one, but I feel as though she thought I was bluffing. She said she'd take one, but that it was "inadmissible" in court. I told her it wasn't for the court's use. It was admissible in my judgement of her actions. That's all I needed. I brought it up again the other day. She probably still thinks I am bluffing. And continues to say it's pointless to take one, because the courts don't recognize them (she's in law enforcement remember) and therefore, they're not worth taking. To me, it's a way to sidestep the situation for her. I told her if she doesn't have anything to hide, it's not a big deal. She doesn't want to talk about any of it until we get to counseling. I will also bring it up in counseling. (We go to our first session with a MB therapist on Saturday).

We discussed things for a bit the other night, and she says that she has answered all questions I've had about OM truthfully and openly... She said that I only keep bringing it up (it's been brought up twice) because I want her to say what I want to hear (i.e. she thinks I want to hear that she slept with OM - I only want to hear the truth, but can't believe anything she says at this point about the situation). We decided that it's best to have someone guide us through the discussion (i.e. counselor). I told her that she needs to be open (i.e. passwords, surprise searches, etc) with me, and completely honest (i.e. polygraph) in order for me to heal. She says she doesn't want to fee like a prisoner, and subject to her lack of privacy (she still doesn't get it, even though she's been reading HNHN).

The thing about the condoms is that I don't know when she bought them. It's not necessarily an intent to have sex with OM just because she has them. Yes, it's and interesting discovery, but not a tell tale sign. We do use condoms, if we didn't I'd be higly suspicious (even more so than I am now). She can't take birth control, because she has a blood clotting issue... Her doctors told her she can't take it. I doubt that if she did sleep with OM, that she didn't use a condom. Yes, the chance is there that OM brought his own bag of goodies, and that's why the box wasn't opened. But, she very well could have bought them before my arrival as well. She hasn't mentioned having any. I'll never know for sure (unless it's a question on the polygraph). I haven't brought up the condom discovery to her, since I don't want her to know I've been snooping in her room (haven't found anything else worth noting).

The ironic thing is that when I got down here, I was having some urinary issues. I was having some burning sensations when going... I told her about it, and she said she wasn't having sex with me until it is cleared up. I went to the doctor, and he wanted to know if I was involved with anyone other than my wife, or if I suspected her of being involved with someone else. I told him the whole story (we haven't had sex since before she left to come down here - so since before OM was visiting.). They tested me for STDs, and all test came out negative. The doctor thought I had an infection of some kind, and now wife doesn't want anything to do with me sexually until we know what's going on. It turns out, I had a bladder stone. I passed it the other day, but still have an appt. with a urologist just to make sure (no more burning symptoms otherwise).

Anyway, we'll see how our first counseling session goes... The only thing I really want to talk about (because if we can't get past it, it's over anyway) is OM's visit, and what things they said/did with each other while he was here, what kind of stuff they talked about before his visit, and what was said that made him take her off his MySpace friends list, and why he's off her MySpace friend's list, and why they now no longer talk to each other, and how the relationship ended. Yeah, she probably has lots of other ideas what will be discussed in counseling, but I guess that is up to the therapist to decide what we talk about. I can only assume the first visit will be introductory, and we won't even get to those issues yet.

Wow, it seems she more concerned about what you may find out what's going to be the outcome of the poligraph and your intentions are about how you're going to use that information. Therefore, it leaves me to believe that there is something she hiding. I'm with everyone else. Set up an appointment to have it done. I think once you have the appointment, she'll try to bow out because she's already trying to justify not taking one because "it's pointless and admissible". Tell her it might be a waste of money if she has nothing to hide but, it's for your peace-of-mind. When do you start counseling? Research the Poligraph immediately!!! Once you tell her the appointment date, watch her sweat.

Be careful of your betrayed spouse justifications and stick to your core values. Since she has agreed, grudgingly, to a polygraph, then set up an appointment. The outcome will be interesting and revealing of your forward path.

That way, you can plan based on what you know rather than what you guess.

Larry

How did counseling go? Have you set up a polygraph yet?

Hey Dude! You still there?