hu7668, have you told your wife about your affair?

you said a few days ago:


Yet, your first post here in June 08' says NOTHING about your adultery. It only mentions your "unmet needs."

Did you tell your wife about your affair?

you wrote on 6-6-08:

Not feeling the affection - need help


To my amazement there isn't a whisper about your affair or the damage done to her. That is like talking about the peeling paint in the girls bathroom while the Titantic is going down...

Well I didn't tell here the OWH did. So yes she knows about it.

Sorry until I get the feel for a place I am not about to post my life story.

WHAT does she know exactly about it? Did you deny the affair?

Lets see did I deny it?? After she got the phone call how could I?

What you expect me to give you details? Do I know you?
She knows how long, that it was a PA and yes that I fell in love with the OW. The other details I gave her are between us and the MC, not some people on an anonymous internet forum.

um, what did you come here for, if not to work on your marriage? You sought us out, we did not seek you out.

Did you come here to get a haircut?

then what do you want here?

Let's see.....lack of details, attitude, defensiveness....troll?

Shouldn't the fact that it's anonymous make it easier for you?....just sayin'

something is missing here. A BIG something. This is why I want him to send his wife here.

Something is very wrong when a WS takes no responsibility for his affair and is focused ONLY on getting his emotional needs met when his wife is laying on the floor bleeding because she just found out he had a 3.5 year affair from the OW's husband.

HU...

Dropping the defensiveness and coming at this with a humble heart is the only way that works...

I know because I've been there...I also know the result of doing things the right way...A recovered marriage-one better than you've likely ever imagined...Many of the others posting to you also know this...That is why we post yanno...We care...Because we've been there...on one side of the fence or the other...

People don't post just to "bust your chops"...No kidding...

This is a great community with loads of benefits...I'd really like to see you and your wife reap those benefits...Whaddaya say?

Mrs. W

You MrsWondering sure no problem I will gladly discuss with you. But some of these others no, why? Because once I posted I was a WS I got nothing but grief. Followed with accusations about what I posted, trying to tie all of it together. Where frankly my original posts were my opinion and questions just that and had nothing to do with my affair.

Take for example MelodyLane says I take no responsibility for my affair. Heck there was a whole thread where I take 100% responsibility. Was that enough for folks like MelodyLane, no. Seems if I am not willing to throw my partner under the bus I am not following the "approved" ideas here.

So excuse me if I am a bit leery of the "help" some people here want to give. Because what I see is a lot of the attitude of punishment and payment. The make the WS pay and pay, tell you what I know that attitude will do to my marriage if applied to me. I will finish the walking out that I almost did, child or not.

BS here seem very focused on getting their due for what happened. So help from BS is not what care to hear. Now information from other WS that have recovered I am more then willing to hear from. Since I do have serious questions to ask you folks.

For those others that asked why I came here in the first place. It was to get information not to be judged. But seems a lot of you cannot serve up the latter without the former.

As far as my wife goes it is her decision to come here or not. I have told her about the site.

HU...

Seriously, in the beginning I spent time here trying to teach folks that I had figured out another way! I told them that there was "more than one way to skin a cat!"...LOL...I was defensive and angry...looking for a fight...very foggy...very much wanted to blame Mr. W for my actions...You know, "if he would have just been home more"..."if he would have talked to me when I called him"...and on and on...So I get it, I really do...

What you will learn is that you had other choices besides an affair for how to handle what wasn't going right in your marriage...And while it's true that there are things that can leave us VUNERABLE to an affair, the affair itself is a choice completely your own...The state of the marriage you and your wife are each 50% responsible for, but the affair is all your own BAD CHOICE...Do you see that?

And I asked you this on the other thread hoping that it would shed some light on things for you...If you had decided to have an affair with OW, but she said "NO!", could you have had the affair with her? Of course not, right? So do you see how her choice to have an affair with you leaves her partly to blame for it? That only makes sense, wouldn't you agree?

Mrs. W

I don't want to go over topics already discussed. I know the affair is my responsibility, I have stated that over and over. Yet people don't seem to be listening.

I will say I have used my wife not doing this or that as justification. No doubt about that, will not argue that fact. I stayed quite and did not state my needs, that also is my fault. But the interesting thing is I did not KNOW my needs until I had the affair so a messy catch 22.

I disagree with the opinions on blaming the OP. To me it smacks of nothing but shifting blame and I will not do that. My choices my responsibility, period.


I am more then interesting in know the following though.

How to fight the withdrawals so I don't break NC. Since that is always going to be something lurking in the back of my head. At times is a very large problem for me.

See because even though the affair ended months ago I am still debating if I stay or not. So I am also interested in the motivations that go FWS to stay and work it out.

Well HU, believe it or not, it really is all tied together...See, your posts betray your mindset...And long time vets see that, that's all...

MelodyLane has been a real champion for our marriage...She busted my chops a bit when I first got here...I needed that...I needed to hear that my "bs" (not betrayed spouse )had a very short shelflife here...I happen to know Mel personally, and what I can tell you is that she is here to HELP...Really...She's in a recovered marriage herself...I believe going on EIGHT YEARS...There is a lot of wisdom that comes with that...If you leave your defensiveness at the door, you'll come to see that...I "guarantold" ya!

I caution you not to turn off your ears towards BSs here...There is MUCH to learn from them...I wouldn't have made it to the other side without them...listen to all that take the time to post to you...BS and FWS alike...Mr. W (my hubby) also posts here and I know that he has helped many...

Really, try again...Take advantage of the wealth of knowledge here...I'm of the mind that I can learn something from EVERYONE, even if it's only what not to do...This place can be a Godsend!!! I hope that you will give it a chance...Something that I've found very helpful, is to guess that when I freak out over something someone here says, that it's usually ME...Look at yourself first...Examine your motivations and what is behind your REACTIONS...and choose to ACT instead...It helps...

Mrs. W

You make a convincing argument. I will be honest that being aggressive and defensive is my nature and is not going to change. Your right there are people here I have learned from, but people that start to "bust my chops" I will not listen too. Call it being stubborn but I will not listen to being belittled.

That is why I respect posts like yours that are tied to logic and reasoning. Unlike posts where people drag out other quotes to try and score a point. Because I look at each thread differently and I tried to not tie the subjects together. I multi-task well.

I have not freaked out about anything anyone has said here. I have gotten irritated by it, most based on the tone. Or worse when you take responsibility and still get hit over the head for it.

Actually you ARE WILLING to throw your "partner" under the bus. You have blamed your affair on your betrayed wife.

And no, you don't take responsibility. Talk is cheap, especially when a WS claims they "take 100% responsibility" and then in the next breath SHIFT BLAME and DENY BLAME.

For example, you SHIFT blame to your victim here:


and you DENY your responsibility here:


DENIAL, DISHONESTY, BLAMESHIFTING and LACK OF REMORSE is not a sign of recovery, it is a sign of a WAYWARD MIND.

You never really commented on my statement about OWH in the other thread, other than to say that you would win a fight with him. How do respond to my comments about how he is most likely feeling about you?...and, do you not think that, because of his GAURANTEED resentment toward you, that you may be overlooking the responsibility of the OP in the event of the affair?

I am a WS too, BTW.

Tell me again why I would want to listen to you? You do just the types of things that make me NOT listen to you.

Tell me what do you want to hear from me??? What would make you believe I took responsibility?

No crap I still have a Wayward mind, have you NOT read where I have posted (in this thread) where I am still deciding if I want to stay. Regardless of the affair?

You maybe one of the people most respected here, but tell you what your MO does not work for me.

What folks here are hearing when you say that HU is: "Yeah, yeah it's my fault, whatever, I get it, let's just move on..." It *sounds* as though it lacks sincerity...Can you see that? We've yet to hear you say something like, "This is all my fault...I've made such a mess of my marriage and hurt my wife so deeply...OMG, What have I done? I want to make this right so much." Or something along those lines...There doesn't seem to be remorse in your posts, but rather an attitude of "yeah, yeah, I got busted, it sucks!" Do you see what I mean at all? When you say "you people" it smacks of "I'm better than you...I know more"...Not a great way to get people to be on your team, wouldn't you agree?


Well see you COULD have sought out HN/HN and other resources BEFORE you chose an affair, right? I know, I didn't do it either, but OH how I wish I had of...I'm glad you are SAYING that you own the affair...Hopefully your attitude will catch up with your words...I have confidence that it will if you stick around here...


Okay, but what I'm asking you to do is to use LOGIC and REASON instead of FEELINGS, alright?

So let's go over this again...IF you would have decided that you wanted to have an affair with the OW and she said "NO!" would you have been able to have the affair with her?

Will you please answer that question HU? I'd really appreciate it...

See, what I'm telling you is that until you are ready to see that OW is also at fault, that to your BS and others here, it certainly appears that you are still protecting her...That you care about her...That she matters to you...Can you see that? It also says that you take no responsibility for your part in harming her BH...It feels good to "clean up your side of the street" HU, really it does...

I will say that I sorta understand your feelings about blaming others for your actions...But I'm not sure that you and I feel this way for the same reasons...dunno, maybe you can tell me...See I held myself to a higher standard than I did OM in our situation and so I see myself as MORE culpable, and yet if he would have said "NO!" there would have been no affair-same as if I would have said "NO!"...So it's a mixed bag, I get that...But it really does take "two to tango" yanno?

Mrs. W

It could be worse for you hu (ha ha). You could have us BS telling you a thing or two about your lack of accepting responsibility.

I really don't care about how he feels about me. My relationship was not with him.

I grew up not really worrying a whole lot about how other people felt about me. Unless those people were close to me.

He is close to you....you slept with his wife.

HU asked for help with withdrawal. I can't address that because I am the BS. But I would like to see him get an answer to that.

HU sounds a lot like my H did for a while-- very protective of OW. I will say this did add to my suffering, which has been great. I think HU needs more time and help with withdrawal before he will be able to have the compassion for his wife's suffering we would like to see.

If she would've said NO! Your right I would not of had an affair with her. But I still would've had one, because that was what I was looking for. She very much became a tool that fulfilled my needs.

I take no responsibility for what happened on her side of the street. That was her decision just like me including her was mine.

Does all of this count as "protecting" her, maybe. But I did care for her and those feeling will always be there. JUST LIKE they are for any of the woman I have been involved with. By the logic here I also protect them since I still care for them.

I'm gonna remind you again HU and then I have to run for a while...

A HUMBLE HEART...

LOSE THE DEFENSIVENESS...

It WILL benefit you more than I have words to say...

A HUMBLE HEART looks/sounds something like this for example..."Ok, MelodyLane, perhaps you are seeing something that I do not. I know that I did screw up, so that may be true now too...Let me think about and give consideration to what you have said."

And I KNOW that to you that feels like "eating crow", but that attitude shift will help you in untold ways throughout life...Besides, I came to know CROW to be "The Other White Meat"!

STOP SHOOTING AT YOUR RESCUERS HU! LISTEN AND LEARN...BE STILL...

HU, the RIGHT thing is to fix your marriage and help your BS heal...No one ever regrets doing the RIGHT thing...

Deep breaths...LISTEN to the wisdom here...REALLY LISTEN...STOP YOURSELF before you post DEFENSIVELY...It will FEEL GOOD HU...It will be far more fulfilling to ACT rather than to REACT...Feelings follow actions...

I'll say that again...FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...You'll need that bit of advice...Commit it to memory...

Later...

Mrs. W

creepy thought but I don't know him. Therefore to me he does not mean anything.

Oh, we ARE listening. Just not with YOUR mind set.

You are still in what is called the "Fog." You will be for some period of time.

Larry

Maybe you have hit it on the head. Because even though I am over thought of "her" I am not over the thoughts of how the affair was different then my marriage. That is something I struggle with daily. Call it fantasy land or what ever but every memory in your head is a fantasy so a simple answer of just forget it does not work.

He is another human being. You put horns on his head. Do you like the thought, "I screwed your wife." You made a choice to be the one who messed up his life. It could have been anyone, why you? What does this say about your honor, integrity and humanity?

Larry

How callous!

He's just another human being whom you treated like scum. Who's wife you stole. Who's heart you help shatter.

Yeah, you're a remorseful fellow!

Last thing I'll say for now, as I REALLY do have to go out...

It will surprise you to know that you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY won't care for her at all eventually...She will disgust you, because you will begin to see that she didn't care for you either...That you both used each other and that what you did was UGLY, that it was based on a FANTASY and was not real...

Btw, I wouldn't have believed that either, but it's true...VERY TRUE...And I had known the OM in my case since childhood...Never would have believed that I wouldn't always have cared for him...But I don't...Not at all...

Go back and read my intial foggy posts here where I was still proclaiming love for OM...That might help you...dunno...

Mrs. W

If my FWW's OM was standing in front of me and told me that "He didn't know me, so I don't mean anything to him", I would try to kill him.

Shortly after d-day, the topic of OM's BW came up...my W said that she didn't care about her...she had enough to worry about already, and "they had their problems, we had ours".

I reminded her that if the BW was half as angry as I am, she'd better watch her back...there is someone out there who absolutely hates her.


You can say the OP isn't to blame, but tell that to a BS. I'd love to burn OM at the stake.

It is a fantasy because that is what infatuations are all about. Those fantasies are fueled by brain chemicals (PEA) with a base that is like Meth. Of course your feelings during that time are not like family life; think drug high. Does being in effect a drug addict make you feel good about yourself?

Larry

Because you are still fully wayward.

Full of excuses.
Full of justifications.
No believable remorse to your BW.
No believable repentance to your BW.
No believable retribution to your BW.
No believable attempts at rehabilitation for your adultery.
Still taunting the OWH.


Spoken like a true narcissist.

You make me want to hurl, hu.




Your wife could be Satan himself and she would STILL deserve better than you.

HU:

The reactions you are getting to your words IS reality. Your own thoughts are not there yet, and again I say you are still in the FOG.

Larry

Your not telling me anything I don't already know or expect.

Not to pick a fight with you or anything but you carry a lot of anger from thread to thread. Holding in that much anger is not healthy.

Okay...REALLY LAST POST FOR NOW!!! Clearly I am terrible at self-discipline!

I told you earlier that you will need this:

FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

Think of how much time, energy and effort you spent on your relationship with OW...And what happened? YOUR FEELINGS FOLLOWED YOUR ACTIONS, yes?

Same will be true if you spend that much time, energy and effort towards your wife...only it will be better, because it is the RIGHT thing...And it won't be based on FANTASY...Do that HU and YOUR FEELINGS WILL FOLLOW YOUR ACTIONS...No lie...

AND when you begin to have thoughts of OW, push them aside and say to yourself: "INAPPROPRIATE THOUGHT"...Then get BUSY INVESTING in YOUR LIFE...The life that you chose with your WIFE...

Back later...

Mrs. W

ETA: YOU WILL BEGIN TO [color:black]FEEL GOOD when you DO GOOD! Count on it![/color]

No one here knows you, either. Does that mean we should ignore your quest for help?

If you saw a man dying on the street - would you walk by? You don't know him...so his life means nothing to you, right?

HU:


I'm sorry, that is just tooooo funny. Hey pal, you are so full of yourself, you urgently need a good dose of a purgative. In other words, you are either a troll or someone who needs an attitude adjustment.

Wake up and smell the roses. These people are trying to get in touch with your humanity, if you have any.

Larry

Sorry I don't tie the BH to a dying man on the street. Not an analogy that works for me. But I would save the BH if I saw him dying on the street. But caring for his emotional feels caused by the affair not my problem. His wife brought me in and had the relationship with me. His wife is to blame just as I am for bringing her into my marriage.

I am all for people that are willing to give help to me. But some peoples methods don't work with my personality, others do. You can see that by who I respond too. Direct confrontation with sorry does not work.

You're right...and guess why he (and I) harbor that much hostility....because guys like you have slept with our wives.

Do you still fail to realize (even with this anger shown toward you) that BS's hold YOU responsible for YOUR part in the affair?

By not holding OW responsible for her part in the affair, all you are doing is, in a sense, relieving yourself from YOUR responsiblity in the affair as well...do you not see that? You can say I take 100% responsibility all you want, but you aren't doing it.

"I really don't care about how he feels about me. My relationship was not with him."




The terms of use on this message board prevent me from saying what I'd really like to.

If you refuse to remove your head from your rectum, why don't you check out that site for philanderers? I'm sure there are many other WS who will agree that how the AP's spouse doesn't matter, because you weren't sleeping with them.

Unbelievable.

In my state, cruelty to animals is a felony.

Adultery should be, too.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we have a breakthrough !!!!

You are denying accountability for screwing this man's wife. You caused great harm to this man and his children. You are not taking ANY responsibility for the despicable things you did to this man and his children.

So, don't come here and tell anyone you "take 100% responsibility" when we can see you DON'T.

Like I said before, bullsh*t has a short shelf life here. Sorry.

Full of myself? No not in reguards to Krazy71, he has a theme going. If point that out is having an attitude, then ok.

I just seem to be a bit different then some people that come here. I ask questions and I will defend my opinions.

I will fully admit I need help and assistance.

Neither is sleeping with another man's wife.

But, on the bright side....if I'm ever diagnosed with a terminal illness OM can kiss his [censored] goodbye.

I was invited in so I don't harbor any feelings of responsibility.
You may not like that opinion but it is my opinion.

[quote=hu7668Direct confrontation with sorry does not work. [/quote]

I am going to suggest that you are hardly a good judge of what "works" and what doesn't work if you are 5 months past D-Day and are not even close to recovery.

Methinks you have been surrounding yourself with YES MEN who tell you what you want to hear, which is a big part of the problem. I have no other way to explain why you are so fogbound this far into it. Somehow you have been trained to think your bullcrap will walk. It doesn't walk here.

I do wish you the best in recovery, HU....for your wife's sake. But, I do not think that you are using this website to the best of your ability. You can rationalize "why" you don't want to read or communicate to BS's all you want, but the real issue on why you do not want to engage BS's is pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain......GUILT.....it's a b!tch, isn't it.

Of course I'm having an attitude. Of course I'm angry. Welcome to the world of a spouse who's been betrayed.

You might have some idea of what a BS goes through, if the universe didn't revolve around you and your needs.

Then you have no clue what it is like to be a BS. If you have no sympathy/empathy for the BH, then you are discounting your wife's feelings also.

Even as a BS, I would not wish the pain and suffering that we go through on anyone, INCLUDING a WS.

You have much to learn, hu. For the sake of your wife, I hope you are willing to learn.

Direct confrontation doesn't work for me either. Your response is under your control. You can continue the conflict or let it go.

Fox

I will counter you are used to getting your way by bullying people. Surrounded by YES MEN? You seem to have a whole following that goes thread to thread with you.

Sorry to tell you this but different people respond to different methods. Your methods don't work on me.

HU, you are the type of person that will eventually get what is coming to you. Hopefully it will be swift and severe and delivered at the hand of the one that means nothing to you now. I don't know you...and you are certainly lucky that you are not the OM I have dealt with. Your attitude would result in permanent changes impacting a lot of lives...especially yours.

I suggest you either start maturing and caring about those people that you had a hand in hurting...or develop eyes in the back of your head. You may think you are a tough guy...but trust me when I tell you that a properly motivated person could take you out in a heartbeat. Since you seem so selfish and lack empathy...maybe focusing on self preservation will get you moving in the right direction.

You make a very good point right here. I think I will follow it. Until I have a specific question to ask I am not responding to any more posts here.

Mel, does this sound familiar??? Think we have seen this joker before? I do.

As I said before, you do not accept responsibility for your crime. So you can't say you "take 100% responsibility." You do not.

What if BH was dying because of a self-inflicted suicide attempt that was brought on by you sleeping with his wife? Would you still help him, or tell his wife that it's her job?

I'm so hurt...please don't deprive us of your vast wealth of knowledge.

My heart aches for your poor BW. I suspect that shortly her anger and resentment will kick in(six months is the norm)and you will find yourself out on your ear, a weekend father paying child support while your BW finds a nice guy to marry and be a full time dad to your kids.

Sad but true. Wake up and smell the coffee! You are so blessed that she is willing to give you another chance. With your attitude, my FWH would not have lasted beyoud my "I am so grateful he is still with me phase."

Say

I will be honest that being aggressive and defensive is my nature and is not going to change.

I just want to play with this sentiment here a bit....

I want for the sake of debate and arguement.....that perhaps being aggressive and defensive...has not served your wife, you, and your marriage so well....

and that while it may your first impulsive response to a situation...that it is not as much as nature...as a choice...

the first choice that comes to you probably...
but still a choice....

you and I and anyone else....have first reactions....
but you and I and everyone can see and CHOOSE the appropriateness of the response...

I'll bet you that when your boss is telling you something you don't like...your first response is NOT aggressive and defensive...though you may feel that way...and you may want to say something along that route...you are smart enough to realize that in the work situation it doesn't serve you well...

logically then

perhaps in rebuilding...
recreating
and even maybe creating a marriage both you and your wife's spirits will thrive...perhaps it is time to change...time to learn and time to figure out new ways of communicating...other than what you call your nature....

people can and do change allll the time...
you can as well....and in fact it will serve you much better to be open to it...

here's some other things your post has me chewing on..

you several times stated that when you love someone you contiue to care about them and want to protect them......like you have done for anyone you have loved...

yet your actions where of the most unprotective sorts that one can do to one's spouse....

in other words.....
you didn't apply much protection to your wife...

Because even though I am over thought of "her" I am not over the thoughts of how the affair was different then my marriage. That is something I struggle with daily

this is where ownership and light shed on this issue can be helpful....

marriages do not exist on their own...they are products of actions....

affairs do not exist on their own...they also are products of actions....

in affairs....the WS and OP participate in thoughts, actions, and emotions that are given to one another...and held back from every one else...

YOU most likely spent a great deal of thought sysnapses on your OW>..
thinking of her
thinking of seeing her
thinking of telling her this or that
thinking alllll kinds of things.....lots and lots of cerebral energy placed on to and focused on her....

lots and lots of energy taken from your marriage....and misplaced in to the affair relationship...

you were probably more energized with the OW>..not because there are super powers that make you energized...but because that is what you wanted to be and present to her....

you were probably more charming with OW....
than with your wife..
more flirty
more witty.
more more more and more.....of you placed on to the OP....

and if that is the case...
if you did all these things....

the affair was different than your marraige because YOU created it to be different..

in fact the more sentiment and power you gave these acts and feelings and more it fed in to the cycle of the affair that it was different...better...funner....than marriage....

it's a vicious cycle...

it's new and brain synapses LOVE new things...

take a serious thoughtful look on every act you did in the affair..

your tone of voice..
your desire to please her
your desire to charm her...

I realize you had a long term affair....
did you keep the energy level up..or did you settle in to the familiar in the affair...

your affair was as good as you made it..

marriages can be as good as you make them as well...

I have one more question...

do you value nurturing...and do you believe you are capable of nurturing....someone else...


I ask this sincerely...not to make you defensive...because you really do present with an attitude of seperating your self from other lives...

that few people mean anything to you...
the betrayed husband...
even the fact that you view the other womans actions as her choice and the consequences her problem....

it's very interesting and I am curious if you can and do see yourself as a nurturing guy...

and is that something interests you at all...being nurturing...

and if you are being honest.....about the issue of nurturing..
if the answer is no you don't feel like you would want to be the type of guy that can nuture...or it is not natural for you or whatever...
that's an OK honest answer....
and I would weigh that answer heavily in to rebuilding...

cause marriage is all about nurturing...
and some people aren't interested in it...but they should be honest about that ...

and if you value nurturing
do you think you are a good nurturer...
or something you should learn better

have you thought a lot about nurturing...
cause your post sure made me think that you a much more black and white kind of thinker..

you give respect only to those that earn it...
you care about only those that care about you..
but believe me...I can be way way wrong on this....so I hope I didn't offend you too much

ARK

See this is the punishment model that a lot of you like that I will not buy into. Referring to an affair as a "crime", please.

Nope. You are a very typical, completely average, tried and true, plain vanilla wayward spouse. Nothing special or different at all.

You want to think you are different. You want to think you are special. You want to believe that the pile of S*!t you buried your BW and OWH in smells like roses.

I don't blame you. Should the day come that you truly understand the devestation and hurt you and your OW have directly caused to your spouses well.....I am glad I am not "different" like you.

That's fine...disengage when you feel threatened...even if what we are telling you is going to be helpful for YOUR WIFE...nicely done, pal.

Tell that to your wife...see what happens.

HU:


What does work with you? And if you accuse me of being Mel's yes man, you will be wrong.

You are on a forum that follows the teachings of Willard Harley, Jr., a shrink that has formulated a plan for marital recovery and marital stability, which most of recognise as a good thing.

What I see clearly in your posts is an entitlement mentality and one that has problems with defining honor and integrity within the conditions of the Golden Rule, right versus wrong and that you have bought into the garbage of "Doing what feels good," type of thinking. No, I haven't read all your posts, not gonna.

Your attitude sucks in my opinion.

I have asked you questions to see how you would respond. So far, you have made the choice to justify instead of answering, to rationalize instead of owning your own cr@p. I am just another stranger; you haven't impressed me and I believe I correctly state that you don't care.

And not caring is your downfall in the test of being a grownup and a real person.

I am outa here.

Larry

Reading your posts it seems that scripting scenarios that are beyond your domestic reality is important to you. I sort of get the impression that you're rather dissociated from the ordinary incidents of real life and gravitate to a more fantastical POV. Obviously, I don't know you, but I wonder whether you have kids and if you play MMORPGS or something similar? It's almost as if you're running away from something--but that's just a supposition on my part.

dagnabbit...

now he won't read my post...
and I think I was up for an award on using the word
nuturing and its derivitives more than humanly possible in one post......


I'm just like Kathy Griffiths...
always on the D-list of posts!!!!!

arkie

So....if you follow this line of thinking.....

This may seem to be a drastic comparison but if your belief just "is what it is" than it should apply. This is an incredibly DRASTIC situation to your BW and the BH.

If you were INVITED to assist someone in a killing or INVITED to be a party to molesting a child - then you have no responsibility in it, right?

The BH did not INVITE you into his marriage. You STOLE from him. You need to GET THAT.

OW has a responsibility to her BH and SO DO YOU.

You have a responsibility to your BW and SO DOES OW.

Your BW cannot truly heal without this.

Fox

YOUR methods don't work on you either, though. Have you noticed that? Your method has been to surround yourself with YES MEN who will tell you what you want to hear.

And what is the result? A wayward man who is as foggy after 5 months as an ACTIVE wayward.

You are simply angry because I have pointed out the obvious foggy contradictions in your statements. Everyone sees them except you. You are the falling down drunk in the room and everyone is looking on in shock.

Your "methods" do not work, friend. They have availed you NOTHING.

Do you want to go somewhere with your marriage? Because we can take you there if you take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth.

We will help you, but we won't tell you what you want to hear or pretend like you aren't spewing some bad fog.

WOW now that was a powerful response!!!!!

Yes I am from an IT background so I am very black and white on issues. I do consider myself nuturing in some cases.

You make so many valid points in your post I really cannot respond to them all. But you really struck home with the I did not care for my wife when I did have the affair. I was not protecting her and you are right.

I am trying to make my marriage more like the feelings (not the actions) I had in the affair. It is a struggle because I still to feel withdrawals because the affair seemed so much easier.

Thank You!!!!!

I am going to save this post and read it again.

I don't play MMORPGS, but you have a fair analysis of me. To do a lot of the work I have think outside of real world.

I do at times feel like I am running away from something but not really sure what it is.

Responsibility

affairs are easy because we are always most likely on our better if not best behavior.....


and even the bad times we apply this twisted torn lover emotion status......

the poor us...
we are victims to our love...
and it's so hard to go on....and on....yet in the name of love...we will get through this...crisis...drama...etc...
for we are soul mates....

the old ...it just happened ...we couldn't help it



also if your affair was years long...
you used your brain waves for a very long to compartalmentalize...your actions...

you seperated values...
honesty
truth and
pretty much existed in relative moralism...

that the lies you told your wife to enact in the affair were justified because you luuuuved the OP....

that's a long time to bend your brain waves to make the "wrongness" of something see "right"

you drank the koolaide of affair flavor for a long long time...

ARK

Before long some new loving husband of your wife's will be putting your kids to bed, tossing the football, watching Saturday morning cartoons and taking them to the movies.

And you will have been the cause of it.

That's if you're lucky.

If you're unlucky, your wife will choose poorly (she did once) and she will marry some drunk who will slap her and the kids around. Maybe he's even a molestor?

And you will have been the cause of it.

Wake up.

Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist, defines it in the same category as RAPE or the death of a child. Other psychologists rate it as bad as a PHYSICAL ASSAULT. It is the WORST thing that can happen to someone. Did you know that?

Have you watched Dr Harley's video on the How to Survive Infidelity link?

All very true.

So what is the best (or any) way to purge the koolaide?

Because I would love to have what I felt in the affair with my wife.

Here's the link.......

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

Hate to break it to you, but what you had in the affair was a dishonest, immoral, delusional, fake relationship. You may want that, but I'll tell you without even meeting your wife that she doesn't. You're wasting your time.

So the feelings of love, affection and admiration are not possible to have outside of an affair? Because if that is true then yes I guess I am wasting my time.

HU:

It's a crime.

What we did.

You may not think so.

Now.

But you will.

And until you realize this, you will ALWAYS be susceptiable to another affair. So will your BS. Because she senses that your not "all there" for her in this M anyway.

It takes awhile to change this attitude.

Lets change the direction of the conversation.

What have you done since D-Day to be a better husband?
To establish trust?
To re-connect?
To address WHAT your BS needs to stay married to you?
What behaviors have you changed?

It's tough being a wayward spouse on this forum. It's easier once you earn your "F" for former. There is room for you, but you have to do the work to start protecting YOUR personal boundaries.

Withdrawal? Yeah, its tough. Give up the fantasy. Six months of NC should have clean out your withdrawal issues by now.

You never had to pay the bills with OW.
Never had to do the laundry.
Never left to play golf on her and leave her with the kids and a messy house.

I told my OW that "She only got the best of me."

In reality, I was only giving her my worst. Because it was a fantasy.

There is alot of help here.

I still recommend that you go to Minneapolis for the MB weekend with your W. That will open your eyes and it will show committment to your spouse that your ARE interested in fixing yourself and your part of the M. To make it the best it can be.

LG

Yes, you can have those feelings in your marriage. Those EXACT feelings. And they will LAST because the marriage is not doomed like an affair. The reason that affairs fail is because they are based on deceit and thoughtlessness. Eventually those traits destroy the feelings of passion. Not so with a marriage.

Yes it's very good to admire a woman who will eff someone besides her husband. It's such a great quality!

You do realize she was effing him after leaving you?

Got STD?

p.s. we need your wife to COME HERE. Please bring her HERE.

She has her own thread now, melody. Hopefully she will join us.

HU:

About this:


YOU CAN.

It starts with you.

You had it when you married Mrs HU.

Then can work, mortgage, kids, responsibility, no more football, "can't you do anything right!" etc., etc....

You CAN get it back.

My attitude during the A was even worse than yours.

We found MB BEFORE D-day. Had we not, I would be divorced now. Flamingo would have toasted me in the courtroom.

When was the last time you bought flowers for your W?

LG

reading this thread is really a struggle for me. This line of thinking is exactly what I was dealing with in my marriage (LG you nailed that one). We are now separated again; WH has moved on to another woman and he only sees his son one day a week and every other weekend.


Hu, I hope you can find a way to WORK toward a better marriage. I could care less how you FEEL right now, I care more what you are DOING right now to save your marriage and fight for those things that you want--the love, admiration, joy, fulfillment. You can have it all if you WORK for it.

I haven't heard you talk about what you are DOING to save your marriage. I'd be interested in that.

HU, I am glad you are still reading.

There is a lot of structured help to be found here to make your marriage thrive. There are many concrete actions you can take that will help you build a good life with your wife.

You need a plan for marital recovery. And you need to follow the steps of the plan even though your feelings and desire for the easy way of the affair are making it hard to do that.

If you will commit to following a concrete plan together with your wife, things will get much better after a while.

The plan looks like this:
1. Establish NC in a way that your wife can verify. Become transparent to her-- email passwords, cell phone records, absolutely no secrets. She should do the same for you. Begin spending 15 hours a week giving each other positive undivided attention (recreational activities that are enjoyable for both of you are good for this.) Most people think that sounds impossible, but it isn't. It is a skill that can be learned.
2. Learn about Emotional Needs-- both of you fill out the questionnaire and share the results with each other, and commit to meeting the other's most important needs. Again, these are skills that can be learned by anyone who is willing.
3. Learn about Love Busters and how to avoid them.

I think the home study course offered through this website might really be useful to you. It is a 6 month plan that will take you and your wife step by step through the building blocks of a good marriage. It is concrete, private, and not judgmental.

Read, read, read the free articles on this website. They contain tons of useful information.

Keep talking to us.

hu7668,

Since you asked about withdrawal, here's a couple of things from Dr. Harley that might help you:

And since I see you asked about your wife meeting your ENs, here's from Dr. Harley...
I hope that you will really give the MB concepts a chance to help you and your W. I can tell you they have helped myself and my H tremendously even though we have a ways to go...we are closer than we ever were pre-A and my H didn't think we could ever be more than "friends" (he as pretty adamant about this) when he was foggy so give it some time. Good luck.

Let me answer you and lousygolfer at same time since you have asked the same questions.

After I found this place I bought the books and we started did the tests. For my wife I scored 5 and 6 on all of the emotional needs. I have continued to make sure I am meeting her needs as I always have. As a FYI I bring her flowers ever Saturday morning.

The biggest changes has been to identify what my needs are. Then once identified speak up about them, when they are not meet.

We are also working on the spending time together. This is tough one because of different interest but we are compromising.

We both constantly keep on the lookout for LB, we do call each other out on them.

I realized a lot of the problems lied with me an my inability to communicate with my wife. I get uncomfortable talking face to face about sensitive subjects. So I changed to writing her e-mails and notes to discuss issues, which has worked out wonderfully.

So in short I continue to meet her EN and she is learning (with my input now) how to meet mine. I know I need to be patient about when things click. Which is why I brought up the withdrawal question. I am no longer withdrawing from the OW, I miss the feelings she brought out in me. So I miss what she represented but not her.

When we discuss the affair I am open and honest. My wife frankly does not want to talk about it. She says the past is the past and we need to move forward. My accounts have never been a secret from her she is free to look in my electronic accounts and phone stuff. I don't go anywhere after work unless it is somewhere we have already discussed, but this was already in place.

I fully believe in the MB concepts they are great. I am recommending them to people I know right and left. Just would've been easier to of known about them years ago instead of now.

"Feelings" follow action and it will take a lot of "actions" for your BW to feel strongly for you ever again. The sooner you get to work on restoring HER FEELINGS for you....the sooner you can rebuild a marriage of extraordinary care (the MB ideal).

BTW...you admit you come here for help and need assistance with your thinking, thus you are self-admitted "foggy", so there is no reason to take being called "foggy" offensively. It will take you years to clean out the fog that was created in your brain when you spent 3 years in a fog machine (the Affair).


Your Betrayed Wife is likely foggy too. Different fog but foggy nonetheless. Her life has been ripped up from under her and she has been victimized in the worst way. Many consider it worse than losing a child or being rapped. It's THAT bad and it's completely understandable that she is also not thinking straight right now (i.e. - foggy).

SOOOOO...don't sweat it.

Anyway...here is a link that may help you with your initial questions about withdrawal and reasons you should maintain no contact forever:

LINK TO 31 REASONS

Good luck,

Mr. W <---Mrs. W's other half

Two suggestions.

One, figure out all the ways you might be tempted to contact OW and do what you can to thwart them, preferably by bringing your wife into your methods. Bringing your wife in gets you in the habit of openness and transparency with her, which will greatly help her healing. It also helps you to develop the habit of thinking about your wife instead of OW.

If you might be tempted to contact by email, put a rule on your email program that will auto-forward any email you send to OW to your wife instead. Sure, it's anything but foolproof - all you have to do is delete the rule. BUT it makes you stop for a moment and think about what you're doing. It gives you a second to stand up and take a quick walk around the building. A moment to call your wife and tell her you're feeling weak. Most BWs would LOVE for their WH to call them and say "I am having a hard time, I need your help." That honesty and vulnerability are a HUGE thing to a BS.

If you feel tempted to call her, make sure your wife has access to all the cellphone records, put a recorder on your home line. Not sure what to do about the work line, I'll have to ponder that a bit.

If you feel tempted to drive by OWs home or her place of work, put a GPS tracker on your car so your wife knows where you are at all times.

Second, focus on meeting your wife's ENs. Find out what they are and do something every day to meet them.

Now, your heart isn't 100% into the marriage, so you probably don't really feel like going all out to meet her ENs. And I'm guessing that when you try, your BW doesn't respond strongly or quickly - she has her own stuff to work through right now. So trying to meet her ENs is probably not a real attractive proposition for you.

However.

Don't do it because you love her, or because you want to see changes in her. You're an IT guy. You problem solve, you're a perfectionist, and you're competitive. See how creative you can be, how original -- SOLVE the problem of how to best meet each EN. Be creative. Put time and energy into it. Try to outdo yourself. Make it almost into a game or a sport. By the time you get really good at this game, your heart will be much more into the M and so will your W. Think of it almost as a way to pass the time until things get better.

Love is not a feeling. It's something you do.

Love is being 100% honest. What you had with your OW was not love, but lust.

No one is saying it didn't feel good. It probably did.

But love is FAR more than just a feeling.

It was you that wanted to talk facts and black and white things. So get your hands around the fact that love is much more than a feeling. Love is a verb, it's something you do.

So the question we all have for you, what actions are you going to take today to demonstrate to your wife that you love her?

Some have made some really good suggestions.

Dropping the defensive, entitlement attitude, telling her that what you did was wrong, selfish and was as far from loving her as you could possibly get, and that you would like to ask her forgiveness.

[quote=MelodyLane]p.s. we need your wife to COME HERE. Please bring her HERE. [/quote

Mel, she did post on her thread.

Hi HU

Well from one WS to another. You are 5 months down the line from D-Day. These feelings of withdrawal you are going through are normal. The previous post referred to the A as a form of addiction. It is.....

Let me guess you have thoughts of "Am I doing the right thing for myself to stay in my marriage?" "I wonder how it would have been if things worked out differently with the OW?"
These are basic standard emotions that a WS go through.

I think the best way to answer the real question of hand on how to deal with it is actually quite simple. Dr Harley has article on coping with infidelity.... It was mentioned in the previous posts and the link was also posted. Do yourself a favour and read it and watch the DVD as well. I didn't really understand until my H came home one day and confessed that there is a lady friend that has been a very good friend and ear to all his emotions and heartache he has been going through . He admitted that he was developing feelings for her . He told me that he told the lady friend that he thinks it is in every ones best interest if they did not continue with the friendship . I had a only a taste of the feelings that he must have felt seeing that he chose to remain faithful to me Emotionally and Physically. HU TRUST ME Dr Harley is not kidding. AT ALL. I thought I died and gone to hell and that was just because of the thought that he too could have an A. The table changed and I realised if the possibility of him having an A made me feel that way what it must have done to him knowing that I had an EA and PA . I felt dirty, shocked in myself of being able to do something as bad as that to some one I claimed I cared for.

When ever the withdrawal feelings start I watch the DVD OVER AND OVER. And I have a heart to heart with myself.

Basic questions I ask myself.

1. If I die today and I have to appear in front of God one day what will my response be if He asks me why did I had an A.?
I know that He will not ask me what part my H and the OP had, but why I chose to break a Vow that I made to Him and my spouse.
So I rather want to ensure that He is rather proud of me for repenting my sin and to turn my life over to Him.

2. I remind myself that the Devil does not want to see my marriage work and will put thoughts in my mind that is not pure.
Round about there I pray and ask Jesus to get that thought for me. Work like a charm Devil is no contest to my Best friend

3. If I had to investigate my integrity do I want to be known one day by my children as a liar and a cheat? Or do I rather want to set a good example for them? That one is easy. Just because I made a mistake once in my life I CHOOSE to learn from it and NOT to repeat it again.

4. What we think, turns in to what we feel, which in turn lead to action. Common rule in life. So keep busy with other things. Work, exercise OR do what I do take all that energy and focus it on my H. I flirt like crazy with my H and make lists of all his positive attributes and things I love about him.
In a nutshell take the negative energy and turn it to positive action


With regards to the fact that you don't really care about the OW husband.... Well I wish I could be the same it would make my life so much easier, because I don't get the withdrawal anymore, but the guilt is eating me up inside. That is because I know how I felt and I cannot imagine that there must be another woman out there that is going through so much worse, because of MY ACTIONS. I have apologised to her over the phone, but I hope there will be a day that I can actually look her in the face and tell her how sorry I am for what I have done to her and her family.

You still have a long way to go, but let's be honest until you make a conscious decision that the OW is in NO WAY part of your life you will not be able to recover. Yes she will always be part of your history, but she must be "a page in your diary" and not a have a part in your heart.

Do yourself a favour and educate yourself on every article on MB, but most important execution execution execution of each aspect is the most important. As a WS I can give you a guarantee - if you are truly serious about reconciling your marriage and you apply every aspect you will have a better marriage that what your A ever was.


Ok Ok I'm done sharing

God Bless

Ade

Oh, please.

You have not ALWAYS met her EN. You had an AFFAIR. Which need is that?

Is the intepretation of a 5/6 on all of her emotional needs yours or hers? Are you meeting them as YOU would want met or as SHE needs to have them met?

If you are getting this information from her..... do you believe it to be the TRUTH? Or is she leading you to believe that you are so that arguments are avoided?

If you truly want to make her happy - you'll make sure you are meeting her needs as SHE needs them met not just as you see fit.

Did you have differing opinions on the EN and what each what REALLY meant - what specific acts were covered under a specific need?

Fox

She is the one that filled out the questionair not me.

Do you think I am dumb and don't understand the EN concept? Sorry to tell you this but I always (even before the A) meet her needs in the way she wanted them met not me. I never worried about my emotional needs and that my friend was the problem. She thought she was meeting mine, since I never said anything. She meet mine in the way she felt they needed to be. Or worse she meet the needs she found important which (surprise surprise) I different then mine.

What I should question her answers? I guess that open and honest that is one of her big EN is not true? Because without real feeback there is no way to address your concerns now is there.

Arguments? We avoid those we both grew up in families where there we frequent and public arguments. We discuss our issues in a calm manor.

It's not ONLY about meeting EN's ,Hu.

What Extraordinary precautions are in place so that you do not repeat offend? In what ways are you showing your wife that you are committed to recovery? If you are not committed to recovery, how do you expect it to work?

In other words, how are you protecting your wife and family? Are you asking THEM how you can protect them and what will make your BW feel safer?

Bringing flowers home is really lovely, but protecting your wife in a way that she feels safe is even better.

I already

1) Gave her all of my accounts
2) Account for my time
3) Don't do crap unless pre-approved.

Unless I am going to work strictly at home and never leave there is no way to setup extraordinary precautions to make sure I never stray again. That will only happen if I am happy at home, which no amount of spying or monitoring will ever accomplish. Know why I can say this? Because I was more then willing to be caught and deal with the consequences during my affair. Losing my house and cash really means little to me that is just stuff. The only big fear I had was losing my child. The only thing that will guarantee I never stray is WANTING to be in my marriage. We are working on that everyday.

You sound so defensive. There is no need. Right now, I'm just trying to gather information from you. Using the phrase...


sounds like you feel like being held accountable for your time spent outside the home is a PUNISHMENT. It's not; it's about safety, the safety of your marriage, safety for you and your wife and daughter. You will lose your child, as a full time parent, if you continue along for too long in your current state. You are not a child and your wife is not your warden.

Do you make it clear to members of the opposite sex that you are not interested in an affair, or do you flirt, knowing that your wife will have NO idea that you are doing it? Are you getting your needs met outside the marriage?

If I come off defensive it for a reason.

Yes I feel like checking in I am a child and you know what does not sit well with me. You know what when you are the one supplying the house, food, utilities, cars, etc... feeling like you are watched like a child is a fine line to be on.

Matter of fact I was at a bar last night with a friend of mine. I was getting hit on and I laughed it off. Oh yes the wife knew I was there. Matter of fact I did not flirt back which is NOT what I normally would do.

I try to make sure my wife meets all of my needs. I have made myself a promise if I ever feel like I am not and I am looking outside of my marriage I'm divorcing before going the "easy" route again.

Hu,

I'm going to jump in here and add that extraordinary precautions are more than just being accountable for time. You need to protect yourself from your own weakness. Think of it as making every attempt to not ever put yourself in a position where you might be tempted.

My FWH used to remove his wedding ring and flirt with women when he traveled out of town. He would collect their phone numbers. I know now that he did this because he didn't feel secure in our relationship and it made him feel like he had some control over something. He had no intention of ever following up with any of them, but he was betraying me just the same and I would have been very hurt if I had known.

Eventually, he did become involved in a EA that eventually became a PA. We were well on our way to recovery when he again started the same old flirting. He simply did not understand that not only was his behavior betrayal, he simply could not allow himself to ever be put in a position to be tempted.

Understand this, HU, no BS wants to be the fidelity police, no BS wants their WS or FWS to want another person. It hurts, but it is just the way things are sometimes. We are ALL vulnerable to have affairs in the right (Wrong) circumstances. That is why it is our own responsibility to protect our own boundaries and establish strict rules for our own behavior that keeps us and our marriage safe.

The reason you are accountable to your wife is more about helping her feel more secure. Creating boundaries for your self is intended to keep you from being once again vulnerable to temptation.

Get it?

Who

I think you need to read up a little on Extraordinary Precautions. You going to the bar with a friend and putting yourself in the position to be hit on right now, given your current position, is not what I'd be doing right now....JMO.

Oh I get the boundaries idea.

Helps that at work there are only 10 people and most of them are guys. The woman are way older and not what I am interested in. The fact I meet my OW at work is now not a problem here.

But again the only guarantee I know for a fact will work with me is that I am happy. I dated a girl for 6 years when I was in my 20's and I got hit on left and right, but never strayed because I was happy with her.

So I can setup boundaries to not talk to any female in a familure way, sure, and I do that. But that guarantees nothing.

I know enough about myself to know what triggers what. I am trying very hard (with my wife) to setup the circumstances that I know will make me not stray.

When you haven't seen your friend in over 6 years and he is divorced, you hang out with him. Matter of fact I have NEVER picked someone up in a bar. Most woman I have ever been involved with have been through friends or work.

Actually him telling me about his divorce and custody battle (a few months back) is what got to not pack up my stuff.

I know the one Extraordinary Precautions I can take that I know works and that is being happy. I know why I strayed and what triggers it. I am working on those issues now (with my wife) as I mentioned.

HU,

You do know that life isn't always going to be happy all of the time and when it isn't, it's not always going to be because of something your wife didn't get quite right.

Sadly, my impression here is that your happiness takes presidence over the happiness of anyone else including your wife and child. In marriage, and in life, you get what you give.

Oh, and by the way, happiness is a state of mind. If you tell yourself that you aren't happy with your wife, you're not ever going to be.

I wish your wife good luck, and for you, well I hope you wake up before you lose things that can never be regained.


Who

Most people that have strayed usually have, as part of their EP's, a rule of thumb to not spend any time with "single" friends without their BS being present. Just so you know.

Well he is in town only for this week and the fact I don't pick up chicks in bars wasn't a problem. Since you said "most" means there are exceptions to that rule.

I don't think your dumb. I think you are manipulative. Your INTERPRETATION of the EN concept may be very different than hers. I think you use them as a WEAPON. If she doesn't meet them, it is HER fault of you stray.

One of the goals is: NEVER TO BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR SPOUSE'S UNHAPPINESS

Have you caused her unhappiness? What can you do to make amends.

And before you go blaming her for what she has or has not done - you can only fix you. YOU be a better man/husband and you will reap the rewards.


You should question them to get a COMPLETE understanding of what she is looking for. I have a feeling you do alot of assuming that everyone does or should see the world as you do.


Are issues RESOLVED in a calm manner? Does she have input or do you lay down the law and tell her how it is because you "provide the house, food, utilities, cars, etc."

Is she your equal or do you own her?



This is all purely entitlement. You DESERVED an A because things were going your way.

She SHOULD check on you - you have not EARNED trust.

You "TRY TO MAKE SURE MY WIFE MEETS ALL OF MY NEEDS". And how do you MAKE her do that?

Fox

Yet.

Ever heard of a one night stand?

And your "most" comment - is just another loophole that you are looking for so that you can say it doesn't apply to you.

You're not special. You're just like every other active wayward out there.

Ya, most. The exceptions are usually people like you that feel they are doing enough by taking "precautions" without the "extraordinary" in front of it...people that are willing to take precautions, as along as the precautions don't interfere with going to the bar with their buddies when they know it's not good for their marriage.

Touche

No, when you are married, you invite the divorced friend over for dinner or you and your wife take him out to dinner. That is what married people do. They put their marriage first and stop acting like they are single. You are a married man, remember?

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for you to be going out and acting like a single man without your wife. Acting like a single man does nothing to restore her trust and does nothing to recover your marriage.

Considering how much I go to a bar that is funny. That is the first time in 8 years or more.

One night stands wow have had ONE of those in my life at 19. Not something I care to repeat.

Oh and as a FYI I treat my wife as an equal in our marriage. I do not make unilateral decisions on anything (accept the affair). Other then that we make joint decisions.

Not like a child, but like an untrustworthy person. Checking in is what untrustworthy people do when they WANT TO EARN TRUST.

They don't resent it, they are HAPPY to prove themselves. The only people who resent it are the ones WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE.

People who have nothing to hide, don't hide...

Acting single how? Sitting there at the bar drinking with my friend is acting single. If she would've had a problem with it guess what I would not of gone.

Yeah, I wonder what happens if a "young" one shows up that he IS interested in.

Hu,

Just gotta say, you get my vote for Most Tenacious on MB today. I honestly admire both you and Huspouse for posting here.

Would you say this stubborn streak has been both your blessing and curse in your life up until now?

Because of your posts, I got a good handle on why we have the ability to react defensively. My DH had this automatic reaction (you spoke about it in relation to aggression in another post/thread here), too. I believe everything in us has a beneficial purpose...and that one really eluded me, Hu. I mean, he could hear me attacking with a "hello".



Now I get it. I think you have the goods to recover mightily. Stunningly. I now it may not seem that way now...but I think your BW does, too. Because defensiveness blocks intimacy--we serve our own purposes when we see others' opinions, their stuff, as attacks on us. The beneficial part is as you have shown me here on MB, you take it to the middle ground, neither extreme, and you have sticking power...your logical mind wants to open a bit, stand your ground to be understood, without assumptions...so you stay present.

I really appreciate that very much for my marriage. My DH has that, too. Just like you.

I wanted to elaborate on the not happy criterion, though...and wondered if on the other thread that I posted to you, did I mention in having your ENs met that half of them being love deposits is on you? I thought I shared that I had wanted what I wanted, when I wanted it and in the way I wanted it...as cutting off my DH's ability to meet my ENs (which leads to justifying having them met elsewhere) as my old pattern.

Wanted to explore that further--because the main extraordinary precaution I put into place was to revoke my permission to react to my feelings (happy/not happy) and to act directly from my beliefs. That kind of healthy boundary...and to enforce it around myself--to stay present aware of my own stuff and to share it. Openness and Honesty (one of my top ENs)...means I gotta hold myself to acting that way.

I'm glad you've found a way to be O&H in emails, in writing as a step forward. I also suggest communication (verbal and nonverbal) for you and huspouse to do in this early stage of recovery (for about a year, though).

We have the ability to focus on lack when we're standing in abundance. In a couple of more months of withdrawal, would you consider doing a fresh review of where your thoughts dwelled pre-A? Where our thoughts dwell, there is our treasure. Seriously works that way. We can train our brains to "treasure" lack and expand it to be life-threatening...a step into the justifying, the fog.

Same for getting through withdrawal further for you now...please take these suggestions from MB folks...you've gotten clear on missing the feelings...my advice is to train your brain to not dwell on them as they were...each time you have an image, hear a sentence jump to mind, change it...the poster "introvert" has a great one for images, btw...and there are others. Mine was to catch it in the first ten seconds...again, committing to high awareness of my stuff in my own head...and if I did that, then I could tell my brain, "That's not what I want" and replace the image/sound/words with one of my DH, my kids, the image of myself feeling proud and true again to my word.

When I did this, the feelings began to flow again for my DH. I had to do this especially for the OW, who in the six month to about the 18th month consumed me. Whom I rent space to in my own mind is all mine. Blocks the falling in love feelings from DH meeting ENs and stopping LBs...can even seem he's not doing enough because I'm not feeling enough...

which is right back to where I was before, in a heartbeat. Still mine.

If you choose to make happy the main criterion for your choices, I believe you will experience a very unhappy life. I say this because happy got you a ton of pain, and that pain was passed around in incredible amounts...when you really come out of withdrawal eventually, I think you'll see how indelible your actions were...and the amends do take a lifetime. Doing that to your self-respect and integrity demands amends, too...and there's no happy in that. So your BW can meet, exceed and blow the roof off your ENs and you may not be happy. Won't be on her, either...your choice of where your thoughts dwell, what takes your focus in a stubborn way, will. It will be what you treasure.

As for choosing to recover...please do. The other way has no redemption, no real growth, no matter how many books you may read...because when you look in your DD's eyes in five or ten years, I don't think you will be able to bear the shame. We learn we can have thriving, fulfilling marriages with anyone...when you know that and it's too late...by your choice or huspouses'...that unhappiness may crush you flat. Huspouse is real, she's your wife...she is giving you this one window of opportunity, even as she hates, rages, and hurts beyond words inside...please take it. You've got what it takes.

LA

LovingAnyway thanks for the responses, yours and a few others really do hit home. Give me a lot to think about.

introvert, Melodylane, iam and Krazy71 do me a favor don't respond to my threads for awhile. Our ideas and styles clash greatly at this point and serve no purpose. I am not open to your ideas right now and you're styles make me want to fight tooth and nail, which again serves no purpose.

Here is the deal.

I think you need to change your mindset. You are a relationship criminal, period.

What you did may not be illegal in the sense of the law. But it broke the laws of how to conduct a good relationship.

There is only one judge at this point, and that person is your wife. She didn't want to be in that place. You forced her into that position by betraying her trust.

So now, she also has to be your parole officer. You have to check in with her. You have to be accountable to her, etc.

She didn't do this to you. You did this to yourself by choosing to be untrustworthy.

So you resent being on parole right now.

Big deal.

This likely pales in comparison to the resentment your wife has for you putting her into this place.

There are two ways to get off parole. You can run (divorce, or encourage her to divorce you.) Or you can earn her trust so she doesn't feel she has to check on you.

You have NO ONE to blame but yourself for where you find yourself.

Your resentment will do NOTHING to repair your marriage.

When you find yourself resentful, practice this particular way of thinking. I did this to myself, and I am grateful my wife is giving me another chance, no matter how difficult it may be right now.

And then put your focus on how you plan to LOVE your wife, instead of resenting her for doing what you couldn't do for yourself, which is to hold yourself accountable to what you vowed.

Earn the trust, or bail out. Those are the only two ways to get off parole.

Resentment, pride, and any other combative ways of thinking will do you no good.

You PAY for trust?

Oh, man.

You've got alot to learn.

You can't BUY your way into being respected, admired, affection, etc.

Wow.

Fox

Amen to that!

Deleted post by Hu......

"Oh the old if you have nothing to hide argument. Tell me if the cops stop you and want to search your car anytime they want are you OK with that?

Sorry I pay for my trust by giving my family what they need and desire. The family gladly takes hours of my life to make themselves happy. So sorry if I resent the idea of being tracked I tolerate it but I resent it all the same."

If you want to compare your wife to a cop, let's take it a step further, shall we? If you were caught drug trafficking, and you did your time, the cops would still want to continue to search you every now and then to make sure you are not trafficking again, would they not? And, if you were clean and had no drugs, you would be more than happy to let the cops look in your car so you could show them that you are clean, wouldn't you?

A cop can search my car anytime he/she wants, because there is nothing to find. Why would it bother me?

Just so you know...your wife isn't a cop...but you have been proven to be guilty. You should be letting her search your car (figuratively speaking).

You bet our ideas clash....I think I speak for all that you listed when I say ... thank God for that.

See this is why I asked you (and others) to not respond to my posts. You (and others) do just the things that rub me the wrong way and make me just want to fight. Which I will tell you what will NEVER get me to listen to you.

I deleted that statement after posting it for a reason. But you want to bring it back for what purpose?

Replying to Hu's deleted post...I have read this exchange all afternoon with my mouth hanging open and I am no longer wondering why she took you back, I am wondering why she ever married you in the first place.Maybe it is the written word and maybe you have a few redeeming qualities but you come off aa the most totally self absorbed, entitled individual I have ever witnessed.

I pray this is fog. At least then it might wear off some day.

Say

To show the members that you do listen to just how deep in the fog you are...nothing else.

If you want to get out of the hole you are in (it's obvious you want out of it, otherwise you wouldn't have deleted this post)...you should probably put the shovel away. You can't dig yourself out.

What was the reason for deleting it that you speak of?

The perpose is that you let your hair down with that post, Hu. You showed what you really feel. You showed what your BW is really dealing with. Until you are honest with yourself about what you have done to cause this mess, you can't be helped.

Listening to only the comments and advice that you like will not help you either. Listen to all and try to contol your response. Your lack of self control is what got you into this whole delema.

Say

I will instead op for the other option of ignoring you and certain others. People like you bring out the worst in me and cause me to post in the heat of the moment.

I will instead work with people I can effectively listen too. Not necessarily post I agree with either. Since the posts I agree with the most point out most of my failings. But they are done in a manor that does not cause me to react unlike others here.

What was the reason I deleted it? Because after I posted it I knew I did it just to provoke a response. I worded it specifically to do just that.

No she's the judge and the probation officer, and right now hu7668 is on probation.

If we were to ask her, I'm 99.44% sure she would say she didn't want that job, but feels forced into it by events.

Whatever resentment hu7668 has for his circumstance is likely microscopic compared to her resentment for their marriage being where it is today due to his actions.

hu7668, what everyone is saying in one way or another is that the "poor me" song you keep singing. Many different verses, such as she didn't meet my needs, I was in love with the OW, I'm checking in like a child to my wife, etc indicate that you don't really get what damage you've done to your wife.

The wayward mindset is that it's all about them.

Everytime you write about whatever complaint you have about the situation, it demonstrates that you are STILL somewhat wayward.

Marriage is about what you and your wife do to move together.

If you really want to move forward with your life, you have to stop looking at the small picture, which is the look how bad I have it picture.

The bigger picture is your wife, your family and your marriage.

Get your focus off you and how bad you think you have it, and put it where it should have always been, which is on your wife and your family.

You say you earn all this money and buy all this stuff. Or at least that's the impression I get.

Fine, admirable.

What does your wife want? Does she want the stuff, or does she want a close relationship with the man she vowed to love? Does she want you to be defensive and evasive and resentful, or does she want you to open up, to be vulnerable, or what?

Marriage really isn't about what you want. It's about what your wife wants FIRST, then what you want.

An example. My wife and I wanted to celebrate a special event and she wanted me to choose a restaurant. I came up with a couple of places that I thought she'd like. One we've been to before, and another that I've been to and thought had good atmosphere. When I asked her, she didn't want either.

Did I insist that she had to pick from those two? Of course not. I asked if she had another suggestion. She did, I called and made reservations immediately.

We enjoyed a 2 hour fondue dinner that night.

I was happy to do this for her because I love her.

I didn't sit there and say, man I really wanted to go to that Japanese restaurant and watch them play with the knives right at our table. I was pleased that I could take her someplace she wanted to go.

Right now, she is willing to be your parole officer.

Don't resent it, be thankful you didn't find your bags on the street and a process server at your workplace.

If you love your wife, do the work. Don't be bitter, be better!

I've been reading this post on and off all day. I'm not a veteran like many of the other posters here, but I'm surprised at your defensive reactions to the great advice you're being given.

Why would you put yourself in a situation to get "hit on" by going to a bar if you have previous problems with temptation? Why not invite your friend to your home?

Why are you rejecting the idea of "checking in" with your wife? That is the LEAST you can do in this situation. I would gladly give my wife a pair of binoculars and map out my entire day for her so she could follow me if it meant earning back her trust.

Why would you reject the advice of people that have been in your situation and know the pain and destructiveness associated with infidelity in marriage?

I'll be honest, I don't understand men like you. You had an affair and now you feel entitled to your wife's unconditional trust and forgiveness? What? You can't honestly say that that makes any sense whatsoever.

Stop blame-shifting and own up to your mistakes. Be a man.

Instead of blaming others for your actions, own them.

Not owning what you say and do only digs you in deeper.

I'm going to suggest an exercise. You told me before that you were more about logic and reason than emotion, so I'm going to take you at your word and give you a chance to demonstrate that.

Take an hour and read this thread. I believe you will find a useful truth from everyone who has posted here.

You may not like them all, nor do I believe you will like how some things were said.

However, since you assured us you are all about logic and reason, filter out the feelings and do what you say you do best and deal with facts, reason and logic.

Then, I'd like you to compose a post where you cite every truth you've found and thank the person who wrote it.

I'd like you to find something from everyone on this thread that you are thankful that they took the time to share it with you. Even if it hurt, but you know deep down it's true.

Are you willing to listen and then be thankful, finding the truth, instead of being combative and resentful?

lol...oh you are so smart....you fooled us all with your reverse phsychology...got me...lol. Just when I thought I'd seen it all...lol.

Just so you know, it's impossible for someone else to bring out the worst in you or cause you to react...you do that yourself. Just another example of your blameshifting is all that is. Seems to be your MO in your life, marriage, and now here...it's as clear as day.

No I resent certain styles of delivering "advice". Everyone has a certain style they don't like.


I have never had a problem with temptation at a bar. I find being hit on at a bar as funny, always have. So not a trigger for me. Already had my friend over to the house, he wanted to go somewhere else.

Not rejecting it. Resentment and rejection are different ideas. I will tolerate it but I will never happily accept it.

When someone rubs you the wrong way their advice could be the best in the world but you just don't care.

Never claimed that I did.

Already have done that just not to the satisfaction of some people.

What is the payoff for you in doing this?

Does it make you feel superior to provoke others?

Fox

[/quote]
Already have done that just not to the satisfaction of some people.
[/quote]

The most important of which would be your wife.

It is a habit from another place that I post. Where that is the standard way of dealing with people you don't like.

The real reason is that he spoke what was on his selfish mind, then realized that we would see it as selfish and we would say things that he doesn't want to here. So, instead he decided to hide instead of being a man and discussing his problems.

And, do you feel the need to get so defensive over there too? Seems like a reocurring problem to me.

Even though you are full of crap.

And right now, it's really not about what you like. Who cares about how you feel regarding getting hit on in a bar.

How does your wife feel about it? After all, you just told us the OW invited you to join in a relationship with her. Now you are getting hit on in a bar.

Isn't that just more invitations?

Do you think your wife will be pleased with this? Will it give her warm and fuzzies? Will it increase her perception of how much you love and cherish her?

If not, why are you doing such things?
See above, it's not about you. I don't see where you thought this through and said, hey maybe this is not such a good idea.
What good is resentment doing for you? Nada. Drop the resentment. It only indicates you are still thinking of yourself before you think of others.

Today, I'd advise your wife if you've not dropped the resentment about this in 90 days, she should consider plan B, and kick your bottom to the curb.
It's still about you and only you...
You've admitted you've made mistakes. I don't see evidence that you've owned them and understand the impact they have.

Your resentment of checking in demonstrates that you really don't own the impact and consequences at this time.

I hope you do, but I have not yet seen you doing this.

Look hu. I have absolutely no reason to keep arguing with you about this. You posted that post, because that is how you feel. Not because of some "trap"...everyone can see that you are full of it. You have been exposed...get over it. Put your guard down, take the advice of EVERYONE here, and help recover your marriage. I started a thread for your W for God's sake, and you still question my intentions? Are you blind?

I have no reason to argue with you...I don't know you. From what I do know of you (from your behavior here) I wouldn't even p!ss on you if you were on fire, so what would I gain from arguing?

Put the guard down dude...it's going to ruin you.

You may want to reconsider the places/people who believe this is an okay way to communicate.

You don't HAVE to interact at all with people you don't like. A man who acts and treats others with respect (even if he doesn't like them) often gains respect for himself.

Is the goal in your life to be superior to others and put them in their "place" or would you like to be an admireable man who does not feel the need to attack others so that he can step on them to build himself up?

Your actions don't need to be based on how others treat you. You can treat others as you would like to be treated - often times, it comes back to you.

Fox

Hu, I started a thread for you which has now gone to page whatever.

You haven't responded to anything I've said yet but I'd be interested to see you respond.

To everyone who wasn't here when I was first on the board and then when I recontacted the OM after 2 years of NC, you haven't seen defensive until you read those posts from me.

Defensive, sarcastic and rude. That's what I was. You know what, at the time I was very, very pissed off with everyone telling me what they thought and they told me what they thought in no uncertain terms. Looking back at those posts and reading them again just recently, I just shuddered with shame at my reaction.

Hu, I recognise every word coming out your mouth (fingers). I asked people to stop posting to me, too. Luckily, they didn't.

My H told me that my A was worse than when his parents died and he was absolutely grief stricken when they died. He told me he looked at the sweet girl he'd married and saw nothing but a horrible [censored].

I didn't know if I wanted my marriage either, at the beginning. I stayed because the OM dumped me and I couldn't see being on my own. I also stayed because I knew I'd been very happy with my H and hoped I could get that back.

I was a foggy, withdrawing mess. My H had to hold me while I cried and said "I miss him, I miss him."

So, they don't get much worse than I was as a WS.

Yet, here we are. 6 years from the original A, 2 years from the reoccurence. We are very, very, very happy. I love my H and he loves me. We are coming up for 34 years of marriage next month.

Hu, aside from what anyone else thinks of you, what do YOU think of yourself?

Do you find yourself to be an admireable person?

Are your actions admireable?

Are you someone YOU would like to be around?

Are you someone that you would respect?

If you were someone looking from the outside, trying to figure out who Hu really is, what would you think?

Are you someone that you would want a daughter of yours to date/marry?

Fox

HU,

You asked about withdrawal......well here ya go.

The quickest way to deal with any withdrawal is to make a conscious decision to be committed 100%. Commit to your marriage and to start working earnestly to follow up that commitment with actions and the withdrawals will dissipate. Acting even when you are down or depressed with 100% commitment no matter what.

It is a decision you must make!

You are approching this marriage with one foot in and one foot out. A better marriage can never begin this way. A better marriage can only begin with both feet in.
You have had one foot in, one foot out for how long now??? (that's rhetorical) And you expected things to go well in your marriage during all that time??? (that's sarcastic, with me banging my head on my keyboard)

The right actions will gradually lead to recovery, but without a commitment to the marriage they are useless.

Make a decision to committ or not, but please stop toying with your wife. She deserves oh so much better. (this is me telling you to man up - like many here told me)

You know what your right, I am half in and half out. I do need to decide.

tst, this is an awesome post. Where the heck were you when my WH was home with one foot in on foot out (that's a rhetorical question, too)?

Hu, this is a must. You must make this decision, else your wife will make it for you, in time.

If you decide to stay and give it your all, contact the Harleys and go all in. They are NOT about blaming, they are about taking responsibility for what is YOURS to deal with. They can help your wife become a better wife; they can help you atone for what you have done and become a better husband. They have the map and a compass.

I seem to type in invisible font but I'll try again.

Hu, I didn't know what I wanted. I thought our case was hopeless, I thought I'd never feel anything for my H again. But, I wanted to give it my best shot. It took a long time and many hours here on MB, but I knew it would be worth it.

Your last post seems to me to be saying that you're not going to bother. That it's too hard. You have NOT given it your best shot. Nothing like it yet.

I just posed in your BW's thread that you guys should book a phone session with the harley's. It is a lot better if the WS takes the initiative in booking counselling (shows thw BS you are involved in the recovery). It would very much help you in deciding which side of the fence you feel you want to end up on. Really, what do you have to lose with a phone session? You say you don't really know what your EN's are...the harley's will help you with that, and give you a plan in your recovery. All arguing aside...you should check it out.

"Coaching Center" at the top of the page for info on it.

Hu:

About this:


I was this EVEN before my A. Flamingo sensed this for A LONG time.

Had I acted this way for THREE DAYS after Dday, I would have been divorced.

You have been that way for six months.

That's a great big "OUCH" for Mrs Hu.

If you want OUT, go. Otherwise, go ALL IN. Tonight.

Because your new A started when you decided to ride the fence.

ANd that is a horrible place to be.

For you.
For Mrs Hu.
For your Daughter.

Nobody gets ALL of Hu. So they are all shortchanged.

Tonight. Just listen. Let Mrs Hu talk. If she asks you a question Just give her an answer. Make it the truth. Even if you think it might "hurt" her. It death by a thousand cuts that way. This way, she has whatever she might need.

Today may have been the turning point for you.

You my not realize it tonight, but in a week you will notice something different. In a month, you will notice a REAL difference.

Trust me on that.

LG

PS: "getting hit on in the bars" and then telling your BW about it. OUCH. Maybe this HAS been the first time in 8 years that you have gone out. And I can respect your honesty with your BW about what happened there. We all want to get "hit upon" It helps our admiration need. However, in your fragile state NOW, it can go the wrong way fast. Next time, sit in a booth with your friend. Reduces the opportunity for those interactions that way.

LG

I don't know what I am going to do. That is part of my problem. That has lead to me not giving it my "best shot".

Because you know what I don't know what I want other then to be a dad to my daughter. I have given more thought to leaving then staying. The effects of divorce on children have kept me from going that route so far. I don't know your story KiwiJ but I do feel dead towards my wife, if you recovered from it then maybe it is possible.

Don't know a lot to think about.

The link is to my first post here.

My first post

After 2 years of NC and after being a very active (and respected) poster on MB, I accidentally bumped into the OM again and for two weeks kept up contact. I confessed to everyone here but not to my H. I ended that contact but didn't tell my H that I'd seen the OM again. Someone here who knew my real name and details, exposed to my H. It was the best thing they could have done. There was a lot of debate on the board at the time whether they should have done it or not, but for me, personally, it was the right thing and I'll always be grateful.

It led me and my H into a true recovery.

Just in case you missed it.

Great trust building activity after you cheated on her!

I really hope she sees through you and leaves!

Then make the decision.

Considering the 4 of us have been betrayed I guess you don't want to hear how your wife feels!

Unlke your wife, I'll do what I want. You ignore me? Go ahead! I'll say my piece.

Hu,

When my WH decided to recommit to our marriage, he was angry. He said he was only doing it for our son and because, ultimately, it was the best chance at happiness.

See, ask yourself, "Would your ideal be to be in love with the mother of your daughter?" If the answer is yes, then you recommit. You can remain skeptical, do the actions, stick to NC, even in your thoughts...doing your personal and marital recovery.

You will open your love bank to your BW again...what happened pre-A was exaggerated, distorted, and remains so in your head...please understand your truth separate from the truth.

Btw, her verifying and you choosing to act transparently can greatly enhance both of your recoveries. See, taking it as being controlled like a child, instead of respecting yourself and your equal partner, makes a big difference. When you practice transparency, you are acting from radical honesty...not to make someone else trusting of you...to rebuild trust in yourself, your choices...I think what other posters are reacting to in you is you not seeing how you lied and deceived yourself for nearly four years straight.

That's what it took to live a lie for every moment of nearly 1500 days. Trusting yourself to decide anything right now would be tough...I understand the distrust. I fear to this day duping myself through justifications and resentment again. Cloaks everything like a smoke...it is the fog.

And part of your decision is also your criterion for choosing...based on if you'll be happy or not. It truly is the best shot you will have at full happiness...in your intact, in love, loving family. It's not finding the right partner, it's being one.

You may have met her ENs...you didn't share, lied by omission for not telling her your stuff...you were half of the marriage. You still are. Both of you are limited to half at all times in your one union. No one else really completes you--you are complete, whole and marvelously made...before a word was spoken or an action taken. Self-image can sure mess up the works...you can tell when you're reacting to it--you'll hear words like blame, deserving, not getting, being punished--and you'll feel resentment, entitlement, lack of respect, frustration, emptiness and rejection.

When you act from self, you hear words like acceptance (not approval), ownership, understanding, gratitude, gift of self, doing and not doing, choosing--and you'll feel accepted, understood, aware, admired, connected and honorable.

One way has a wide-open love bank to your BW...has the stages of mourning...which you aren't in yet...you are mourning the loss of the great feelings from the A; then you will get gut-punched, once you're through that, with the loss of your marriage and so much more you cannot undue. That's when you may feel flooded with feelings for your BW. That's your stuff and she can't get through it. I don't think Harley even advises BS's to meet ENs during withdrawal...it's blocked.

I know I dated my Wh during his withdrawal; we played together again, tons of RC time...hardest three months, I swear...because on top of the infidelity, I had to watch my WH mourn the loss of another woman...think about that in six months and feel the crushing feeling in your chest...because the consequences of infidelity keep on coming...and they knock a person flat, seem to wipe out their existence...for they looked at you like half of them, not the marriage.

And what you haven't come close to experiencing is the intense and awesome grace within your BW...for choosing to not divorce you...to give recovery a shot...to fall in love with you again...the real you...because she hasn't seen her real H in nearly four years.

She has her own personal recovery to do as well as half of the marital recovery. Reach into your compassionate self and know you can't comprehend what your choices have done, are doing...for withdrawal is a beast in and of itself.

I believe huspouse is as stubborn, amazing, strong and indecisive as you are...she could choose the day after the blow hits you in its totality to leave you, anyway. I don't believe she will...unless that day takes longer than a human can suffer.

And it might. Train your thoughts, get clear on where you are right now...don't be the man peeing on today, 'k? Don't have one leg in the past and one leg in the future while you think you're standing for your marriage. You only have right now, this moment...look at your BW as the whole, complete and marvelously made human being she is...also made from love, the woman you vowed to, your equal in every way.

Her responsibility is to verify the truth of your actions in regard to contact...which can help you in your weak moments of wanting to take a hit of that drug again...and you know drugs are fantasy.

She had no intention to harm you pre-A by not meeting your ENs...she had her own stuff, no more knowledge or insight than you did in the ways we fall in love and stay in love. Now you both know more...she could not earn your infidelity no matter what she did or didn't do. Dr. Harley would have advised you to cut off all contact with OW before she was OW...to go to a Plan B to protect your loving feelings for her...and you really wouldn't be where you are right now.

The importance in reviewing the past is to allay our fears of the future...you aren't "all-in" without steps, boundary enforcements...what you didn't know before. And you won't have a shot at redemption, recovery, to truly be a hero in your daughter's eyes when she's 16 and cheated on by her BF...if you don't go all-in on recovery.

LA

hu,

You've stated a few times that you are still in the wayward mindset - that you still think of leaving your wife at times, and that you are still in withdrawal.


I wonder, then, how much you would consider yourself as fully invested in your marriage? Because to really recover the marriage, you would need to be fully invested. You can't expect a return on your investment in a marriage unless you put all of your money in the love bank.

Otherwise, there is NO return on this investment.

If you are putting anything away for the OW "rainy day fund", then anything you are doing right now doesn't even count. Sorry to tell you this, but you are not on the road to recovering your marriage and the clock hasn't even started ticking until your investment is 100% IN THE MARRIAGE.


I asked my husband once if he thought he would have had the affair if he had spent the time invested seducing the OW, thinking about the OW, and working on ways to improve his relationship with the OW, on doing those things with and for ME INSTEAD.

He said, "No."

Certainly he wouldn't have!!!! Because logic only tells you that you get the best return on your investment where you place your best efforts.


SB

***WARNING***BRACE FOR IT HU...MRS. W POSTING WITHOUT KID GLOVES***


HU, right now *I* want to smack you! Are you really this heartless? Are you missing the empathy gene? Seriously, you are sounding more and more narcissitic as this thread goes on...sigh...



Wow...read your first sentence in that quote again...Selfish much?

Ahem, EASY? You think an affair was EASY? *thud* The affair was the WORST thing that I've ever done in my life...I hurt Mr. W, our dd and myself...Affairs are a lot of things, easy is NOT one of them...


"ME...ME...ME...But seriously, enough about ME, what would you like to know about ME???" C'mon man!!!

Can you really look at your child and say, "Well I'm here now, but if I'm ever unhappy, then I'm outty!" You shouldn't be able to look at your wife and say that either...How about you honor the vows you took when you got married? What a concept!!!

Life is full of ups and downs HU - No guarantee things are always gonna be sunny and fun...Happiness comes from DOING GOOD...


Listen HU, no one here OWES you anything...People are posting to you out of the goodness of their hearts because they want to HELP you...How dare you ask any of them to stop just because their "style" may not suit you! You are a grown man and shouldn't need to be handled with kid gloves...Really, not much will suit you right now BECAUSE of your mindset...Like I told you before, examine yourself FIRST! Egads! If you keep telling people not to post to you, pretty soon you will get your wish and no one will post to you...Surely that isn't your goal is it?


As others have already pointed out, you cannot blame YOUR ACTIONS and YOUR CHOICES on anyone but YOU...You are in control of you...As I told you earlier, ACT, don't REACT...


You should be GLADLY offering up anything and everything about yourself...Why aren't you GRATEFUL that your wife is even giving you a chance?

HU, my advice to your wife would be to divorce YOU right now if the word "never" from the above quote isn't removed in double time...*shaking my head in amazement*

HU, it's time to get serious...Re-read this thread...Ask yourself if that is the man that you set out to be...Come back and let me know...

Mrs. W

hu,

I had a little more to say once I finished reading the thread.


I wonder about the concept of "fence sitting" in your case. I don't buy it.

You were in this affair for over three years. You had three years to leave your wife - why didn't you??????

I mean, seriously. Three years of what you purport to be this great relationship.

So why didn't you just expose this beautiful thing you found with the OW, and make it beautifully exposed to the world, and make it a beautiful reality, and make everything so beautiful for everyone?????

Oh wait. I know.

It. Wasn't. Real.


It was wrong.
It was a fantasy.

And. You. Knew. That.

You knew that and you CHOSE to remain married the whole time you were in the affair, the same way you CHOSE to remain married once the affair was exposed.

You CHOSE. But see, I think you made that "choice" allllll along.



And now, you're having second thoughts.

Like,

Gee.....would it have been EASIER for ME if I had made the other choice

and gone off with the OW?????? Instead of doing this "recovery" gig?

Again, you're in the fantasy, hu.


Because that choice would not have been any easier. You would still be looking at people hurt and disgusted with your behavior. Just from a different house.




Find your shame.


It will help you get out of the fog - your shame will shine a light on this, and help you see your BW's pain.


It might also show you just how shallow your OW really is, and take that fantasy down into the dirt where it belongs. She was no prize. She was a person of low moral character who was willing to compromise her marriage, and YOURS (as were you), in order to selfishly fulfill her own needs for emotional and sexual attention. She did not place any concern for her own husband or children above her own selfish fantasy, and neither did you. She showed no concern for your wife.

She also showed no concern for your CHILD. This same woman who you would say has no responsibility for the possible demise of your marriage? She had her hand in this, when she actively participated in an affair with you, knowing you were married. When she did this, she actively participated in your decision to compromise your morales, and to violate your vows of marriage. Her "invitation" into her marriage as you put it, is ACTIVE participation in the affair, in pursuing a you as a married man. She showed little to no regard for the institution of marriage - and no respect for YOU, either, because she was willing to actively work towards helping you hurt your child by interjecting herself between you and your wife. She purposely participated in the degradation of your marriage, which led to the damage of your FAMILY - thereby hurting your CHILD. This is a woman you would consider blameless? This is a woman you consider a good candidate for wife material? This woman, who has already shown you she has no regard for your marriage, her marriage, and YOUR CHILD'S best interest?

Not mother material in my book. Not wife material in my book, either.


I just don't buy that you are fence-sitting because the OW is soooo great. Because no way is she that great, with all this crappola working against her. I think you're fence-sitting because you are mostly a taker, and not a giver. Because recovery is HARD, and you are wondering if it would be the easy way out to just divorce and get it over with. Maybe because your wife hasn't fully exposed this affair enough yet, and you haven't yet reached bottom.


But you need a foglight, bucko.


Either that, or your "logic" has gone into a do-loop that has a fatal error.


SB

I'm tellin y'all, he sounds exactly like PWC. No joke. There is something missing in him, and I am not so sure he has the cajones to do what is really required of him to truly win back the good graces of his wife's heart. She is going to leave him or kick him out soon enough. It's really just a matter of time.

Hu, you can fence sit all you like; stay up there. It's cool. Be careful, though, build that fence high enough and you are in for a nasty fall. You are not the only one in your marriage who is capable of making a decision about divorce. Let's not forget your wife.

In or out. Make that choice, because your kid deserves so much better than you are offering. You are teaching your daughter that this is how men treat women, with utter disregard and disrespect. She will choose a man of your character when she is older because it is the only model she knows, and you will then know, when that man hits her or leaves her or belittles her, that you had a hand in it. Man up or get the heck out of their lives. You have done enough damage to last a lifetime without you then inflicting further pain by standing inside the doorway, letting all the cool air out.

and stop with the shooing people away. Man up here, too. This is no place for wimps. We BS's, that you have such disrespect for, have cut our teeth here already, have taken enough 2x4s in life and on these forums. So don't you come in here without some respect. The WS's that have earned their "F" have taken bigger lashings and are here to tell you that they call "Bullshite" on you. They, too, are not 'dumb'. Give us a break.

I'm outta here. I'll stick to HuSpouse's thread. See if I can't help her. She's gonna need it.

I am going to wager that Hu7668's wife does not even know about the affair, just as I initially suspected. The above is NOT a normal reaction from a BS, but the kind of thing a WS would say. The thread from "MrsHU" sounds nothing like a recently betrayed spouse - her posts are nothing more than carefully framed PRAISES of hu7668, ie: "great father," "always meets my emotional needs," "great provider," etc, etc. All this about a profoundly selfish, remorseless, thoughtless wayward. What bullcrap coming frm the supposed "wife" of a man in a 3.5 yr affair who just found out.

This would explain why he came here in June 08 and made his first post about his wife meeting his EN's and never mentioned his affair. This would explain why he is still foggy months after contact ended; because he is still lying about it all. He is trying to sweep it all under the rug and hoping that working on EN's will compensate for the lie he is living.

HU, I was right, your wife doesn't even know, does she?

I do believe Chrisner was able to sum up the issues on this thread early and quite succinctly.

HU...

Care to explain why you are posting AS your wife?

First of all, "huspouse" posts NOTHING like a BW would...

Secondly, your posts as well as "huspouse's" both make the error of using the word "your" in the place of "you're"...

Also you "both" spell the word "familiar" as "familure"...

Pretty unlikely...

Here's a tip, if you are going to impersonate someone else, try using SPELL CHECK...D'oh!

UNREAL...

You are a very sick man HU...

Mrs. W

*edit*HU.

Piece of *edit* preying on other peoples pain.

Huspouse.........

07/16/08 01:15 PM
07/16/08 01:33 PM
07/16/08 02:13 PM
07/16/08 04:33 PM
07/16/08 05:08 PM





Hu........

07/16/08 02:21 PM
07/16/08 02:31 PM
07/16/08 02:43 PM
07/16/08 03:04 PM
07/16/08 03:06 PM
07/16/08 03:22 PM
07/16/08 03:30 PM
07/16/08 03:33 PM
07/16/08 03:42 PM
07/16/08 03:53 PM
07/16/08 04:00 PM
07/16/08 04:11 PM
07/16/08 04:15 PM
07/16/08 04:41 PM
07/16/08 05:02 PM


I find it pretty odd that Hu was basically posting every 5-10 minutes...until his claimed to be BW showed up. All of a sudden Hu slowed his posts down....coincidence?

I also find it strange that his BW was so eager for help, when she finally showed up, but seemed to disapear at the exact same time Hu did...even when she was in the midst of getting probably the most help with most likely the biggest problem that she has ever faced in her life....coincidence?


See you in h3ll, hu.....you POS.

You know my wife does have her own computer at home. I am doing this from work. You guys asked me to get her here then you figure we are one in the same for a person.

I don't know what she does during the day.

Introvert you obviously have a problem with me so why should I bother with this. To everyone else thanks for your help you did give me a lot to chew on.

For the poster that asked why did I not leave my wife for the OW, good question and the answer is I was chicken. But after reading some of the responses yesterday I believe I am going down road.

Wonderful sweet justification! Now you can blame leaving your wife on posters on an anonymous board that think adultery is dead wrong. Very smart and brave way to make life altering decisions. Be sure to let your DD know how you made this decision. Your BW shouldn't care. She can move on to someone with a heart and get a fulltime caring father for DD if she chooses more carefully this time.

Say

So you obviously come in here to get your rocks off on screwing with vulnerable people. Then, you blaim those very people for your decision to leave your wife and child.

Remember the baseball bat post?

I hope you get it.

...and, you saying that your wife posts from a different computer from work just proves my point that she doesn't even exist. If that were true then there would be no reason whatsoever for you to go from posting every 5-10 minutes, then drop off while your fake wife was posting in her thread.

Nice cover-up work dipsh!t....you just gave yourself up.

I hope your wife finds a man that is good to her, adores here and loves your daughter as his own.

They deserve so much better than what you are offering.

You never know, Hu, there may be a processor waiting to serve you divorce papers from your wife. This decision is not only yours.

Fox

Cut us all a break HU...Your name comes up elsewhere upon a google search, and your story there does NOT match what you've been shoveling here...

Hmmmm...I'm sure the mods would be able to tell if you and huspouse were the same person based on IP addresses...I think I'll shoot them an email...No one here likes having their time wasted...

What say you just be HONEST...That'd be a nice change of pace for you I think...

Mrs. W

Beat me to it. Pretty easy to figure this out.

And to think all he had to do was say that his wife was sharing a computer with him to prove me wrong on the timeline

What an idiot.

Fine you want honest.

Yes I posted as my wife since you guys were hounding me about it. I was interested in what the responses would be to her vs. me. So yes same person. She also does not know what I did. I am not about to tell her because I KNOW what will happen.

Great detective work from everyone here. KUDOS!!!!

Tell you what I did not post here originally to jerk anyone around. I did come here for help. But once I posted I was a WS I got nothing but grief and pissed off. Because there is no sympathy for what I am going through. Did I hurt my wife, child, OW husband YES. Did I do it because I was selfish YES!!! Do I need help OH YES.

But tell you what a lot of you hit the nail on the head here and the other thread. I may no longer love my wife and maybe incapable of actually doing that. Having other people tell me that reflects what I feel.

So sorry for anyone I offended the opinions I did post were my opinions and not to jerk people around. But I can see that my opinions are in most likely wrong.

So there you go.

I appreciate the honesty...Thank you...

Next the appropriate step is to tell your wife...She has a right to the truth about her life...

Then, IF she is willing to give you a chance, please understand that you most certainly can and will fall back in love with your wife if you work the MB program together...That is a guarantee...

No matter what though, you MUST tell her and send her (the real her) HERE...

Tell her TODAY...Will you do that HU?

Mrs. W

You heard from alot of good people who were formerly selfish and cruel and fell back in love with there betrayed spouse by funneling the time and attention they had previously given to an A into there M and BW. I don't believe you have ever been fully invested in your M. For that reason, I think that I would want to give these concepts that have been life altering for so many other people a shot.

Say

Quote: written by HU7668 July 12, 2008 on MB

Affair lasted 3.5 years ended this past February.
Have not had contact since that time.


written by hu7668 , May 30, 2008
I have read this blog and many others on this site, let me tell you ladies this is not all a man thing. I am a MM that just ended a 3+ year affair with a MW. I will tell you she became my best friend and the love of my life. But once her husband got an idea of what was going on the "attachment" feelings kicked in and I ended up very hurt and strung out for months. She has a lot of issues in her marriage but the attachment to the family overrides everything. I finally had to say enough was enough yesterday. We had even talked about marriage and the future with our kids. It had gotten to that point. But it just ended up with me in pain.

I will say I don't regret the affair because I did meet someone I love very much. But I do now know that I wasted a lot of time and energy I should've put into my own marriage. But it is hard to WANT to put in the effort when you are lonely etc... in your marriage.

So for those of you that are in an affair or just starting one don't do it. Yes it feels WONDERFUL!!!! But it will not lead to anything worthwhile, statistics prove that out. One of you maybe willing to leave your family but the chances of both of you, very rare. Yes the love will still be there but the relationship can only grow so far. For me I wanted more and was willing to leave my family, she was not.

For those of you that are blaming people for seeing guys like me, take care of your own house before you blame anyone. I was happy in my marriage until changes in my marriage left me wanting and then I became open to an affair. Marriage needs constant attention to work, if you think that ring on your finger or promises mean anything you are living a dream. Love your man as you did when you first meet him or you will see him posting on a blog like this, or the woman he was involved with doing so.
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/ask_an_expert/infidelity/will_he_leave_his_wife.html

Let us know when you are ready to get honest, hu7668. Otherwise you are just wasting the time of the good people here.

Hu,

If you REALLY want help, you need to cut the bull.

Deceit and lies got you into this mess.

Honesty (first and foremost with your wife) can get you out of it.

You will NEVER get past this if you are not honest with your wife about it.

Even if you NEVER tell her, this will eat you up for years to come.

Face the monster now and purge it - otherwise it will continue to rise up and bite you in the [censored].

Fox

MelodyLane I don't like you I don't like the way you post.

But you know your right.

I will be back once I can deal with people in an open and honest manor.

Again I am sorry to anyone I offended.

HU, you do not KNOW what will happen.

What may happen is that she wants a divorce. What may also happen is that you will see her pain, you two will work through this, you will begin to really recover, your wife will really know your needs (and you will know hers), and that you will eventually find yourself in a happy and loving marriage raising your daughter together.

The path you are on now will not get you what you really want. It will only eventually land you in another affair. Your wife can't fix what she doesn't know is broken.

It totally makes sense now WHY you are still this FOGGY...The Feb. NC date did NOT make sense based upon your posts...That is where the original suspicion about you was born...See, you can't fool people here for very long HU...There is a certain unmistakable WS Script and you were following it to the letter...

You are in withdrawal...that is HE11...I do understand...What you need to understand is that it WILL pass...

I am MOST concerned with your BW getting the truth...Will you tell her TODAY HU?

Mrs. W

See now we are getting somewhere Hu. If you stick around and be honest, you may get the help you need. The problem right now is that you don't WANT to hear what people are telling you. You are looking for an easy answer that doesn't involve owning up to your mistakes, let alone taking any sort of responsibility for them.

You can love your wife again. You can have a great marriage. And it can survive your wife finding out about this, but it requires you to approach this with honesty, a humble heart, and an open mind.

If you come here looking for people to pat you on the back and tell you its going to be ok for you to continue to keep your wife like she is some sort of pet, you are not going to find it. Stop getting offended when people don't tell you what you want to hear, and try to understand that when this many people respond this unanimously to you, maybe there is something to it.

Ask yourself this question though.

What kind of man are you if the only way you can keep your marriage together is by intentionally deceiving your wife into thinking that you are someone that you are not?

That is not how a man of integrity and honor behaves or treats other people. There is an interesting phenomenon that will occur if you decide to try to reinvest yourself into your marriage without owning up to your mistake. As things get better between you and your wife (a result of you putting energy back into your marriage rather than the affair), you will feel guiltier and guiltier. You will prevent any chance of real intimacy growing between you and your wife WILL eventually figure out that something is wrong. The truth always comes out and when she finally learns the truth, ALL of this intervening time will be meaningless.

Quite simply, if your goal is to recover your marriage, you have to confess now if you want to achieve that goal.

Thanks for manning up. You are forgiven. I hope you can grow big enough testicles to come clean with your wife...that is step #1. Whether you decide to leave her or try recovery....being honest is your only choice. You did it with us (you don't even know us) time to do it FOR her.

Just something I need to ask...

Do you really think that you could lie and get away with lying in a group of BS's? We are pretty much PI's.

Honesty IS the solution to what you are going through HU...There is no other way to get out of the grave that you've dug yourself...

Will you tell your wife the truth today HU?

Mrs. W

Thank you. I wear that as a BADGE OF HONOR coming from a wayward.

I knew there was a reason Hu went against me like rat poison.

Glad you altered your post to admit that your wife does not know.

So why are you "afraid" of telling your wife? Is she bigger than you? Will she kick your a**?

Hu,

You are manipulating your wife. It's shameful. How would you like that done to you.

Be a man and have some balls and tell her.

LET HER MAKE A DECISION FOR ONCE!!!!

You were bold and cold when you talked about thumping OWH.

Are you man enough to tell your wife?

What? You know that she won't appreciate being treated like a PET and you will get what you deserve?

Be a MAN for goodness sakes...Tell your wife HU!!!!!!!!!

If you are too much of a pansy to do the right thing, then give me her phone number and I will tell her for you...

She MUST have the TRUTH HU...

Mrs. W

C'mon, mel. You know waywards are afraid because they will no longer have the power over a BS once they find out the truth.

Once BS' have the full information, they get to make their own decisions.

While she is in the dark, Hu can control her.

Don't take that power from her, Hu. Go to her with honesty and remorse for what you have done. Mean it, and you might be amazed.

It is amazing how forgiving a BS can be.

Fox

Please...WHs are completely gutless. They have to run around behind their wife's back because [baby voice]they don't have the guts to get divorced[/baby voice].

OM in my situation was classic. He would've let me ***edit*** him in exchange for not telling his BW. What a wimp.

I deserve all of the abuse you guys are giving me.

A physical fight is something I can deal with, have spent years learning how to do that. So a reason I can be bold and cold, I know how to deal with it.

Man enough to tell my wife? I am working on that now. Because the thought of losing my daughter scares me more then you know. Yes I was more then willing to risk here during the affair, for all of the known reasons.

The guilt has been there for a long time, your all right I just need to man up and tell her.

here's my two cents..

as an autonomous being on this planet...

your wife if she deserves nothing else...

deserves the right to know
to make informed decisions about her

sexual health.....and health...

the right to get tested for life threatening infx

the right to make informed decisions about whether she WANTS to be married to you

the right to make informed decisions about her financial future and what is best for her child

no matter what...

the acts of not telling her deny her that right...
and in a nutshell that is the insidious evilness of the affair...

reigning down on her....

humble yourself hu...
and tell your wife...
because she deserves to know the truth....
so she can decide her own fate and not have it in the hands of you and the OP....

nothing on this planet would make you more angry or hurt to be denied the exact rights you deny her....


ARK

PRICELESS!!!

Krazy, you have such a way with words that I just got a very humorous visual image. Thanks for the belly laugh.

So you know...Your daughters future will reflect your decisions in life. Live a lie, so will she.

My children have learned that marriage is something you work on constantly. My kids know mom & dad see a MC. They have no clue why. They never will. But they don't ever want us to stop going because they now know a loving home.

Man up for your daughter if you need motivation.

If you don't, I promise you will lose her.

I started to bust your chops when you alluded to how you could handle the OWH the other day, but let it slide.

You just got a lesson in honesty ... my guess is you are about to get another lesson about MOTIVATION. You see, you may have been in a "physical fight" or two ... most have ... However, you may be fighting for some cheap skirt and your own pride, but you are about to encounter a wounded animal, who is MOTIVATED beyond your wildest beliefs to exact vengence on the one who wounded him.

Personally, I wish HIM well.

Hu,
Let me try and put this to you in a way you might be able to understand right now. First off, how much of what you said about the OWH finding out was true? Does he know that OW really had an affair or does he just suspect. I ask because if he knows, the cat is already out of the bag. You have no idea if OW will eventually give up your identity or if OWH will discover on his own who you are.

If you don't want to lose your daughter, the LAST thing you want is your BW finding out about the affair from OWH. She will almost certainly have NO respect for you and NO desire to get anything from you other than a swift divorce. Say you keep it a secret for another year. When your BW finds out, you will not be apologizing for a 3-3.5 year affair. You will be apologizing for a 4.5-5 years of deception and lying.

Regardless if damage control is not the right reason to expose the affair (she is person who does not deserve to be treated as subhuman), I suggest it here because it just may convince you to confess, which is our ultimate goal.

It would be in your best interest to send her here for help too because the good people here will give her REAL advice on how not to make decisions while she is an emotional basketcase, which may be your only chance to not get thrown to the curb. Start showing your wife the respect that you have denied to her for so long. Start living a life of honesty and integrity. We aren't defined by our mistakes. We are defined by what we do in the face of those mistakes.

In fact
these are the reason why people hate affairs

it has nothing to do with the sex and false emotions all built on a house of cards...

it has to do with the with-holding of information that has great generational ramifications......

you can layer it with calling people bitter...and ignorant...and judgemental...people who just don't get affairs and how hard they are...


but the fact is that it is two people making choices that greatly affect another person, persons, children/s all based on with-holding critical information....

and that is hatable because it is a hateful action...
and requires no defense or explaination

it is what it is ...all on its own..


so for all you WS/OP who read here and roll your eyes and think people here just don't get that the emotions of an affair.and all it entails..
the victimship
the soul connection...
blah blah blah...
you couldn't be more wrong...there is nothing loving about the acts of any affair...they are all deceiptful....be you ws or op...

wrap the affair in all the pretty bows you can find...
your hands are stained
ARK

This is why I love reading Krazy's posts.

You're quite welcome.

I shoulda ***edit*** him, then told his wife anyway!

***edit***

It ended because he found out. He called me several times and talked to me.

Here is another question then.

How much does he know of the actual truth? Does he know it was a 3.5 year physical affair? Or does he think it was a much shorter EA?

Regardless though, you know the truth is coming out. Its your choice whether you man up and your wife hears it from you. Or if cringe and cower until you get served.

Hu7668, it is in your daughters best interest for her father to become a man and face the consequences of what he has done. It is in your D's best interest for her father to be a man of character and decency. Not a man of lies and deceit. Your daughter needs a REAL MAN for a father.

You don't have to live like this anymore. You can choose this day to become a man of decency, honor and TRUTH. You do not have to live in the dark like a cockroach anymore. It will take courage, but you can choose to be a MAN instead of a COCKROACH.

That is your best interest, your daughter's and your wifes.

You don't have to live like this anymore, hu7668. We can help you do this.

Then what makes you think that he will not tell your wife?

Two choices...

1. You tell your wife, and deal with the consequences

2. OWH tells your wife, and you deal with the exact same consequences...multiplied by 1000, because of the fact she had to find out from someone other than you.

I know this from experience...I found out from my WW's OM.

edit: Then, I retaliated with an affair of my own, which I most likely wouldn't have done if WW was honest with me. You see, the mental damage that you will cause your wife with dishonesty will completely consume her and take over her life. Take that for what you think it's worth.

I’ve been fascinated by this post for 2 days now. I’m not sure if this guy is real or not, but either way he sure knows how to push the buttons of all the BS’s on here.

The reason I’m posting though is to jump on the Krazy71 bandwagon. There’s no one else here who can express things quite like Krazy. I’m going to step out on a limb and suggest that he could make a lot of money by starting a business to exact creative revenge on WS’s. I would certainly pay up and I’m sure there are many others who would do the same. He could take some of his anger and turn it on for HUGE profits. Just think about it.

Yeah, think about it, Hu.

You can play the "I'm being eaten up with guilt" card when you confess. You don't have to tell her that OWH was probably going to tell her, anyway.

Your W still finds out, but YOU come away smelling much better than if YOU don't confess.

After all, this is all about YOU, isn't it?

I'd love to, but those pesky things called laws keep getting in the way...

It reminds of that comedy called "Dirty Work".

Not necessarily BUTTONS, but bullsh*t meters! He set off many bs meters here!

T/J....

Pepper....I think this needs to go into your Notable Posts Thread...


Ark^^,

Your reputation around here is legendary. Now I can see why...This post was probably the most poinant post I have read in awhile. It was AWESOME.....I'm emailing it to myself, just so I can read it as needed.....Thanks a much...

Not2fun

T/J again.....

School,

you know my admiration of you is far and wide.....ANOTHER GREAT POST......sums up my feelings on the COW in my sitch....(I decided to change her from BOW to COW....wanna guess what the C stands for????... ...and I do not like that word or use it, but it came to me the other day and decided it is MOST appropriate in this sitch....)

Anyway, love the post....

not2fun

Why was I censored?

The word I used is harmless by itself, and anyone who's familiar with the act associated with the word can probably handle it.

I know rules are rules, I'm just curious.

Hu' posts, where he lies about his W knowing & then impersonating her are far more offensive and should be deleted entirely.

Krazy, You have become the Lenny Bruce of MB.

yegads!! I about fainted when someone told me what that word meant, Krazy!! I had no idea! Krazy, you is soo crazy! :eek:

Hu,

I find your thread very interesting, I think I see alot of my exH in your posts and it has been very illuminating for me, from a BS point of view. So thanks for that...

As a FWS, I do know where you are coming from, and I can tell you that there can be a "happy ever after".

But I am a little confused as to the facts since you have been misleading us. What I am able to gather is:
1. Long term affair with co-worker, all roses and moonshine until her husband found out and he put a stop to it.
2. Your wife has no idea
3. You have a child with your wife.

I think the posting you did as your fake wife gave insight into your fears of telling her the truth. As your wife, you commented on:
1. "She" has something to hold over you to force the truth.
2. The whole treating you like property thing.
3. You were meeting all "her" needs besides chit chat.
4. "She" would have changed if she had any idea you were vulnerable to an affair.
5. How "she" hates the OW.

Here is where I think you are right now. I believe you think you are stuck. You think your wife is unable to make you happy and you can't be with OW. If you stay with wife and tell her the truth, she will either divorce you and take you child and your money, or stay with you and nag you until you engage in the marriage.

If you stay and don't tell wife, life will continue to suck. You and OW will always have this unfinished business since the affair was cut short by OWH. She will always be a goddess to you. Your defensiveness about her is scary and your fake wife's hatred for her is telling.

You think you are over a barrel, good provider, family man who is at risk of losing it all. You are "paying the cost to be the boss" and are being denied your happiness. I think you resent the hell out of your BS. She can't make you happy and she is going to milk you dry if you take a chance at happiness with OW.

How am I doing so far?

There is a way out of this mess, but you have to be willing to commit to something. Do you agree that best case scenario is being madly in love with the mother of your child? Just that question, no buts, no "you don't know her", no "she can never be what OW is". Just best case scenario, would that be being crazy in love with your daughter's mother??

That beats the heck out of being the Pee-Wee Herman of MB.

So, what you're saying is that my post was educational...

I missed the WORD that was edited, dangit, but Krazy, you are too funny.

**thud**

Here's my take after watching with fascination for 2 days now.....

I think you are not telling your wife because you are waiting.

Waiting to see if OP works things out with her H, waiting to see if OP H will not divorce her or not, waiting to see if she can "see the light" and come running back to you.

YOu are not leaving you wife because of your daughter. Do not lie to yourself about that. In fact it is a piss-poor excuse to use your child in that way.

You are scared to be alone....

You are scared that your daughter will never look at you the same again.....

You are scared that you will never be happy again.....

You are scared of what your wife will do WHEN she finds out (and she will....)....will she divorce you, will she extract revenge, will she tell everyone and their brother, will she take your sorry butt to the cleaners, will she tell all of your future endevours, will she tell your daughter.......

And the reason you come here is to find out IF MAYBE there is hope for your marriage.

Can you love her again??

Can she meet YOUR EN'S???

BUT your were sorely mistaken when got here to find out that SHE will be devastated and you were not going to get the "Free Pass" you were hoping for...

YOu were mistaken when you thought by coming here there would not be any repricutions for YOUR actions......

I wish you luck.....cuz you are going to need it....you've taken some good steps yesterday. Hopefully you will step up to the plate and finish what you have started.....and TELL YOUR WIFE.

Mine hem-hawed around for a month about whether or not to tell me the truth. Guess what happened??? I caught them.....

Did he tell me truth after that?? Nope....just particals

Are we recovering?? trying to, but he made it much much harder...

Oh and the COW??? She told her H ONLY because she knew I was on a mission to tell him. She beat me to it by less than a day. That put a whole different light on her when he found out what I was doing.......

So, you are only making things worse and by coming forward with her, YOU will gain a little respect......

not2fun

****EDIT****

You were edited for a TOS (terms of service) violation Krazy.

Specifically:


-emphasis added

You agreed to follow those rules when you signed up.

Editing is at the discretion of the moderators.

Thank you for your cooperation.

makes you wanna know the word doesn't it???....

I would tell you but I would be in violation of:

2a
2b
2c
3a
3b
3c

and

3d

I agree, N2F. Def. calls attention to it MORE.... and makes me want to know it more...

Its kinda like the ol' DON'T PUSH THAT BIG RED BUTTON!

A radio station by us has a "dirty joke of the day"-- they say the question on air (its not dirty at all), and you have to call in to get the punchline.

I wish that I could "call in" to Krazy right now to get the "word" punchline...

haha...

E.

Dang...me too.....

You'll just have to fill in the blank yourselves.

"To get me to not tell his BW about his A, OM was willing to let me _________, but my orientation would not allow it."

rhymes w/?

I was thinking more along the lines of "Dirty Jobs" Soprano's style.

Imagine the humor as Mike Rowe extracts revenge on WS's and OP's as the witty quips come from his mouth.

Of course, this would have to be on HBO, where it could be very graphic, LOL

Less severe TOS.

I'd prefer it be on a episode of Dexter myself

I don't have anyone or any specific punishment in mind. I have some general ideas, but don't dwell on them much because they are not really fruitful to think about.

Free flag

I like Marshmellow's "rhymes with" request, haha.

Pretty soon we are going to be doing charades with the smiley faces...

How many syllables, Krazy??

I know what the word "means", I just don't know what word it was!

E.

Oh, the spatter!

The word he used was referring to the little sack of herbs and spice that has a string attached to it... you use it by putting it in hot water and letting it steep (sp) to make a certain drink.

Hmm... I'm still not there yet. Maybe I don't know this word. Is it two words?

I don't know why I have so much fascination with this... its like figuring out a (dirty) puzzle!

Well, either that or it is a slow day at work and I'm just bored... haha...

E.

I didn't think it was nearly as crass as his comment to alonewithouther's thread. It was equally amusing though. You do have a way with words Krazy!

Say

I don't want to get banned...if you don't know what the word is, you probably have the definition wrong, too.

I'll be happy to send an email to anyone needing this valuable information.

I GOT YOU!!!

Thanks intro. Now I know what he said...

Well heck, I'm still lost....it must be the blonde in me...

Or maybe going through this has not made me a "street smart" or nieve (sp) as I thought...

not2fun

Nope.

Still don't have it.

But, you guys live in a different language world than we do.

All words seem to originate from one main word. LOL

Lemme ask one more question. Does it mean to sodomize?

Would anyone like a cup of TEA. Get it NOW?

Thanks for helping me out there, Krazy. and eeeewwwwwwwwwww.

NO....

Is it lemon or milk with Earl Gray?

OK.

Got it.

Thanks.

LOL

You can almost feel the TOS reaching it's ultimate yield strength.

We're giving her all we got Cap'n!!!

LOL

I'm sitting at my desk giggling while I read this...

My boss is looking at me funny-- I am supposed to be working on something for a conference we are going to next week. Its not anything funny...

I don't think I can tell her about this one...

E.

The word he used was referring to the little sack of herbs and spice that has a string attached to it... you use it by putting it in hot water and letting it steep (sp) to make a certain drink.

Think about what it is that I am describing in the above description. Then take that word, and google it...but, tread lighty (just a warning...as I don't want you to slap me through my computer).

free flag???

Tea bags??

Rhymes with??

nope didn't help me at all.....

oh well....I think its my funky mood today...

not2fun

Um, you said EXACTLY what krazy said in your post N2F. Look closely... Specifically, at the SECOND LINE.

Google it (take off the "s" and make it a "verb"-- add "ing")

but have a barf bag ready.

E.

OKAY!!! I FINALLY got it. I have never heard that before.

Ummmm......yuck.

Why would he let you do that and why was that supposed to be a plus for you?

Ew.

Intro,

Let me tell ya a little bit about me...

At 16 my parents threw me a surprise party....I walked in in the middle of the DECORATING for it, cake out and all, I didn't notice just wanted to go out with my friend...little did I know that I would walk into my party later that night.

When I was getting married, we went to my aunt's house to see my cousin (who was a minor league BB player and hadn't seen in awhile). I walked in everyone yelled "surprise", I laughed said "I didn't know this was a surprise party for Brian. But sorry I'm not him..." and went and sat on the couch. It took me ANOTHER 2 minutes to realize that my soon to be MIL was there with all of her family......it was a surprise bridal shower for me.....


When I was going to turn 30 I told everyone "NO PARTIES". Had my 2 BF PROMISE to tell me if something was in the works because I would not show up. What happened?? YEP you guessed it. My WS and mom threw me a party and I walked into my OWN house not knowing.....


Sometimes I can be REALLY REALLY dense......sometimes I find it hard to believe that WS hadn't been going on longer that it did before I got my first inkling and Dday.....

not2fun

I don't think it was supposed to be a plus for Krazy, just a statement of what the POSOM was willing to let Krazy do rather than having his wife find out. He was desperate for Krazy not to tell his wife about his A-- enough so to sit down with a cup of tea with Krazy, so to speak

Shows you how bad he didn't want his wife to find out, eh?

E.

yeah, I got it too. had to Google it. and Wildhorses, I'm with you....I am not sure where the torture in that would be, unless I have not been "educated" properly....

hmmmm.....maybe being "clueless" has its advantages....

not2fun



ps....I am 34 and have NEVER heard of this.....education you say????

now that makes sense.....kind of....

not2fun

Had to check google too.

This thread completely delivers in all aspects.

lol this is to funny

hu,

Now that we have taken the Lipton break, we can maybe get back on your topic!!!???


BTW - it was very nice not to have to be the one to "out" you on posting as your wife. That was so obvious that everyone saw it - it didn't even take an "expert" to see it. I like it when folks are brought to the light of the truth.

You know, the light of truth works IRL, too.

Here is why you need to tell your wife.

I found out about my FWH's affair accidentally - I found photos of his OW's skanky self on his computer. I was looking for something on his computer FOR MY DAUGHTER. Could you imagine what would have happened if she had been standing behind me and that photo of his OW and her naked breasts and glaringly AWFUL make-up job had appeared??????

Not to mention the total shock of my reaction - knowing instantly what the photo meant? And the fallout, right then and there, of d-day, with her standing in front of the computer with the photo.................

Lord.

I can think of any number of scenarios of how I could have found out about his affair, 1,000 different ways.

But if I had a choice of how to find out, I would choose him telling me. I would rather have had him arrange a time when we could have a couple of days alone together, uninterrupted. When he and I could just talk, and he set it up.

I would want him to make sure that I had plenty of Kleenex, and water, and Tylenol (crying makes me have a headache).

I would want him to have a "no contact" letter already written.

I would want him to have the Harley books available, and ALREADY READ by HIM, so he could tell me that he knew a way to save the marriage, that he knew of a plan for recovering marriages after affairs, and that he was 100% on board with this plan.

He would have already scheduled a counseling session with the Harleys, in order to PROVE to me that he was serious. Maybe he would already have spoken with the Harleys on his own in order to gain insight and guidance in how to go about guiding me through this very difficult day - a day I would never forget and never want to relive, although I would relive time and time again over the next two years.

He would have his passwords and cellphone information ready for me and written down. He would have the information regarding the other woman written down for me. He would have available for me the information regarding the OW's H in case I needed to confirm anything with him.

My WH would sit me down and tell me with sincerity that he had an affair, and that he wanted to recover the marriage. That he knew he was 100% responsible for the affair, and that his OTHER WOMAN also was responsible for her part in the affair. That he vowed never to contact her or her family in any way ever again, for life. I would want him to tell me that he had made an awful choice, and that he had started doing it knowing it was wrong, and continued it knowing it was wrong. I would want him to admit to the feelings he had from the start, and to explain to me what happened, without the following responses:

I don't know
That is between me and the OW
That is between the OW and her H
I'm not comfortable disclosing that information
I swore to OW I wouldn't tell you that information
You don't need that information
You don't really want to know that information
If I tell you that, it will only hurt you
I'm not telling you so I can protect you
If only you had...It's your fault because...You never...You didn't give me....You should have... or any other sentence that attempts to blame the betrayed spouse for the affair

If he didn't recall information, I would want him to tell me his best recollection of the information, or make an attempt to find out and get back to me. I would want him to try to remember the best he could.

I would want him to tell me lovingly, and calmly. I would want him to hold me when I cried, and not yell back when I yelled at him.

I would want him to say, "YES, YOU ARE RIGHT FOR BEING ANGRY, HURT, DESTROYED, INCAPACITATED, HUMILIATED, DEVASTATED, CRAZED, SHOCKED, PANICKED, AND WHATEVER OTHER EMOTION YOU ARE FEELING."
And I would want him to let me feel those things, and love me through each and every one of them, because he should expect that I will go through them - rapidly - on the day he tells me of his affair.

I would want him to just expect me to be hurt, and range from topic to topic, emotion to emotion, and to know that what I do and say on d-day may change from moment to moment.........and may change the next day, too.

I would want him to love me through the entire event.

Because to do otherwise is to stab me in the heart, and then complain about the blood on the floor.

SB

Simply awesome, SB....simply awesome.

Ouch. Is that how you live your life??? You walk all over people unless:


And you were not close with your wife? Ever? Not since the day you met her? Because you hurt her in the worst way possible.

No, you have slaughtered her. Weather she knows the whole truth or not, you have.

HU, I promise that when the fog clears and you SEE what you did and how YOU have singlehandedly destraoyed the ONE relationship that could ACTUALLY fulfill you, you will not feel this way. You will realize that OW is an evil creature who assisted you in destroying a very sacred union ~ your marriage.

My H's affair has been over for 16 months now. Two nights ago we got into a discussion and he compared the thoughts of his A and the OW to "f*cking a prostitute in some dirty hotel room".

And I said "But that isn't what you did and that isn't who she was!". And he hung his head and said "She might as well have been."

OW now means nothing more to him than a prostitute. He almost lost his family over someone he equates to nothing more than that.

I hate to break it to you, but you ACTED like a child.

You:

lied
cheated
and snuck around

...just like a child would do. Grown-ups don't do these things. That is what part of what makes us "grown up".

Being accountable and considerate to your wife (THAT is what you are doing when you "check in"), IS the grown up thing to do.

That is what we do when we learn to be considerate and loving towards others, especially our spouse.

Resenting this means you are stuck in a 15 year-old's mindset, one where you are resentful because you are being asked to be considerate and loving.

Ok, I just read some more of this thread...

So, you have not told your W yet. Yikes.

Please, LISTEN UP HERE, HU:

I am the BS. It hurt like pure, unadulterated H*LL when I found out about my H's affair. NOTHING could have been worse.

I am not a drama queen and for the most part I keep hurt and pain to myself.

But this has brought me to my knees, more than once. I do not remember most of what occurred the night that I found out ~ I was awake and conscious but it is like I blacked out ~ I only remember some parts of it. My sister, BIL and others who were there have filled me in. I fell to the ground in a heaping pile of a sobbing, incoherent, intolerably hurt woman.

I guess it is a self-defense mechanism...it hurt too much and my heart couldn't handle it...I blacked out.

HOW.
EV.
ER.

We are now working on our M. My husband is a MUCH better H and father than he has EVER been. He WANTS to make these changes, because FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS. He knows that the more he shows me he loves and cherishes me, the more he will FEEL that way.

I have made changes as well (I still have more to make...as he becomes better, it is encouraging and motivating ME to become a better wife as well. I want to be nothing short of the most cherished and loved woman around, and I know that how I treat him will directly impact how he treats me).

My H told me a few nights ago that he has never been more in love with me than he is NOW. We spend all of our free time together ~ voluntarily. He tells me every day that the only thing he thinks about or cares about is my happiness...that he loves to see me smile.

He treats me like a princess. He has a Harley and we spend hours on it...he moved the handlebars and adjusted the seat so that I can wrap my arms around him and hug him more easily as we ride.

He calls me, text messages and emails me all day long, just to say he is thinking about me.

We just moved to another state...a BIG move for us. We left our beloved Southern CA because we knew this would bond us even tighter together...it has.

He wants to take care of me and I want him to. He is providing more for me now than ever.

His A SUCKED. It has taken us to h*ll and back. But I would NEVER have been able to make the changes I have made, and he would never have been able to want to treat me the way he does now, if I never knew.
Affairs are an awful thing in a marriage...they are terribly hurtful. But they CAN lead to changes that may never have happened otherwise. That is what I believe is happening to us, and what I pray for you as well.

Please go tell your wife. Hand over your Defensive Badge and put on your Remorseful one. You both deserve better than this.

~MF

Since it would appear that this, uh person has bailed, given that he got a WARM reception, I have a question.

Is it that the world of IT breeds a lack of humanity. I harken back to heartsore among others. Yea I know, lack of honor and integrity comes in all flavors. I just wonder if staring at a screen and working with 1's and 0's all day increasing the chances versus some other profession.

Anyone wanna comment?

Larry

does you post imply that the reason he left is because of the reception her received???

If so, NOTHING could be further from the truth. The reason he isn't here RIGHT NOW is because the troll is busy elsewhere....for now...lying to others about this or that.

Good point, Larry.

My Mom has mentioned this very thing before re: my FSO, Mr. Gray. He is an IT Administrator.

Charlotte

I think in Hu's case it has more to do with the fact that he could not control us.

Nor could he lie to us and get away with it.

Nor could he force us to do what he wanted us to do by spewing vitriol and anger at us, and by telling us how he wanted us to respond to him.

All things I believe he probably does to his wife IRL.

She will likely leave him when she finds out about his affair, if not sooner.

Because he will not change - he chooses instead to run from the truth.

That's okay. He will get out of his marriage only what he invests into it.


In this case, he will get out of it

a LOSS.


His own choice.


SB

Sure, I'm a 25 year communications/IT guy counting military and civilian service.

I don't think there is anything in particular about IT that would lead folks to behave this way. I think it's more personality types and lack of integrity than it is chosen career field.

Of course, since I was the BS, I'd argue that IT guys are more often the ones cheated upon.

But then my perception may be skewed, LOL.

I am an IT guy and I was cheated upon.

I have never noticed a trend among IT guys, but I HAVE noticed a trend amongst NURSES. We have TONS of nurses here or spouses of nurses. But it seems to be an equal mix of BS' and WS'.

would make an interesting survey

It is rampant in the military. There are many, many of us here. Maybe it is America.....

On both sides of the front. They deployed/TDY (what happens on TDY, stays on TDY) as well as those left home.


I've seen both sides of it, and there is no moral high ground for either to claim.

Yeah, they had a really good episode on Law & Order-Criminal Intent that covered the military angle & infidelity.

Military makes sense... not necessarily based on the personalities that join but on the lifestyle itself. Lots of separations, shift work, and the old attitude of "the military would have issued a spouse if it wanted you to have one." Military spouses learn early that duty comes before family. Add into the mix that one can't just decide to make family the priority and walk away. They have to stay at least long enough to finish the service contract.

Nurses also have the shift work and stress. On the personality level, I would think a need to be needed or an attraction for "fixing" broken people would factor in with this occupation.

Where I live, it is unfortunately among policeman. It seems to run rampant among the county deputies or the city police.

I have family members that were married to men who became officers and it wasn't long before their marriage took a turn for the worse.

From personal experience I saw these men turn into controlling and sarcastic individuals. They became legends in their own minds. They treated their families like perps. They couldn't leave it at the door when they came home. If it wasn't bad enough to do that, they ALL cheated on their wives, which led to their wives divorcing them.

It is like it all went to their head. This wasn't just one or two men. This was FOUR different men who behaved like this. I worked with two of the wives, and two were cousins.

I have all the respect in the world for police officers. They have a hard row to hoe.

To top it off, my daughter is dating a state trooper. Oh my Mel...she's a NURSE!! (She best behave)

I told her to start asking around the barracks about their marriages and if they have been married multiple times. So far she hasn't found that to be a trend amongst that set.

It appears they spend too much time in their cruisers to be out cruising for anything else.

Seeing how it has damaged four different families prompted me to ask her if she was sure about him.

If anything he's a pushover when it comes to her. He thinks the sun rises and sets on her....just like her Mom does.

That's the personal experience that I have had with a particular job sector...and how I witnessed it playing out.

committed

I have noticed a trend as well. We get a TON of computer owners here ---- I think it is common amongst computer owners.

Oh - WAIT a minute - HOLD 'da phone - perhaps the folks posting their stories on MB are folks that have access to a computer at home or work ---- jeeze - that would include nurses AND "IT guys"






Have you ever noticed that nearly 90% of people who have cancer have chewed gum in their lifetime. This must mean gum chewing leads to cancer !

EUREKA ! I have found the cause for cancer ----

the woman is clearly in denial!! Everyone knows you nurses are naughty!

very naughty

but not as naughty as people in sales

Hey commie, I hear ya about the po-lice. I live down here in a virtual POLICE STATE in Texas! I get HARASSED and OPPRESSED all the time by these BROWNSHIRTS. If they can't harass ya on the road, they send ya PHOTOSHOPPED pictures accusing you of running red lights and what not. Its a police state! I am thinking of getting a boat and escaping to CUBA! :eek:

That is a wicked lie spread by those beancounters in finance! :eek:

I got a close up photo of myself, sent to me in the mail by the nice folks at the DMV. I don't know why .... except I was yaking on the phone and running a red light !!!!!!!!!
I "bought" the photo - it cost me almost $400 - I love California

YES - I am GUILTY

and YES - I NEVER talk on the phone while driving anymore - not even hands-free

I figure I'm too old to drive anyway

Why those sons a b***es! What an INVASION of your privacy! We have SPY-CAMS everywhere here too. Did you explain to them that WOMEN can multi-task and are fully capable of driving and talkng on the cell phone??

Wowww Pep!~

Musta been a great pic to spend $400 on it!!

Tell me, was it a "Glamour Shot" with your hair blowing in the wind and all?

This was July 2007 - I was driving home from the DMV after renewing my driver's license!

My 1st ticket in 40 years.

shtbkt

I'd like to start by saying I am the uber multitasker, I consider it my THING. But, I stopped talking on my cell while driving a couple years ago. I realized if I was going to drive a one ton+ contraption at 70 MPH with other folks doing the same, my BRAIN better be in on it.

Nowadays, I get REALLY frustrated with folks who still do. 9 times outta 10 when a person is driving eratically, its because they're yapping on their cell. And BIG p.s., seems most of them are male. Just sayin'.

:eek:

See, here is THE PROBLEM with THE MAN as I see it. They don't understand HOW women drive. We don't necessarily follow the speed limit, instead we drive according to our MOOD. They don't GET that. As my good friend, mopey, suggested, I should have shown the policeman my MOOD RING.

As a result, these brownshirts try and hold us to a standard that just does not exist in our world, hence the oppression of women in Texas! I wanted to go explain this to the JUDGE in my recent altercation with THE MAN, but my husband insisted on just paying the $430. [my DH does not understand the mood angle either and thinks I should I be thrown in JAIL, a major DJ! ]

I may have to just send those boys a nice letter telling them a thing or two about a thing or two.

Viva La Revolucion!

MEN cannot multitask, Jo!! Whereas, women like me can talk on the phone, apply lipstick AND adjust the radio at the same time without veering off the road!

I'm sure you're right. Doesn't seem quite fair. Perhaps their tickets should cost more because of that limitation. And for us, no citation, just a "Guideline".

Here just to let you folks know. Since whenever I post that my affair seems to be the only things you folks care about.

3 weeks ago I told my wife about the affair. Monday the 4th at 12:00 PM.

I even told her to come here but then she read a few of the posts by someone of the "experts" here and said no thanks.

But I will say a few interesting things have happened.

1) I understand the anger of you BS's better now. Still disagree with a lot of you on the best approaches to "fixing" things, though. I think a lot of that has to do with the length of my affair. Learned how to have another relationship outside of my marriage.

2) I very much do now understand the hate for the OP. As I have withdrawn and helped my wife the more I have grown to dislike the OW.

3) The more I withdraw the more I understand the root cause (remember IT background) of why I strayed. Is interesting getting a better understand of the why.

4) We are not re-evaluating our marriage, with the length of the affair we are re-evaluating our whole relationship. Since our relationship has to be fixed before our marriage can even being to be worked on.

But overall in MC and proceeding on how trying to work on things.

yeah, sure you did.

Oh I see I answer the question of if I have told the wife and some of you don't accept the answer. OK.

Was an ugly conversation, but guilt did drive me to do it.

Even meet with the MC that we had been seeing and apologized to her as well, since she had asked me if I was in an A when we first saw her and I denied it.

I still do come to this site though daily and do get good information while lurking. A find a definite hostile tone to site overall though which is growing. It is interesting the hostility is not just towards WS it is also against FWS and BS.

Some really good posts lately as to why you should try to fix the marriage if you are staying for the kids. That one hit home and was another reason why I confessed.

No way to prove anything to some of you folks. But at least I can now have it off my mind that I have not posted that I told the wife. Don't know why I care if you folks know or not, but there are a few of you here that are helpful and I feel I owed it to them (mostly) since I was very rude at first.

How is your wife coping?

Hu,

Do you believe you'd do anything to heal your BW and your marriage? If you're willing to accept the slings and arrows, make time to read all the MB articles by Dr. Harley with your BW on this site.

Then read the threads together, talk about them, share.

Don't do what you don't like done to you--narrow a whole board down to a group and discard...so many are here and have been on MB...walked in your shoes and your BW's...worked hard, even when they felt hit upside the head here...stuck with it and gleaned what they needed most here.

You came on the board and lied to everyone. I don't know if I can believe you or not. Same as in your marriage...rebuilding that trust takes time and effort...stop posting where you'll be attacked...and you know you will be...focus on rebuilding trust in yourself (you lied to yourself for over three years), earning it from others and it will be mirrored the same way within your marriage.

Use that fight and flare you have FOR your marriage...you can do this. Even posting here, learning to not take what isn't about you as about you...derive the kernel of wisdom within it. Everyone here can help your marriage...you won't get it what you want, when you want it, in the way you want it...that was my experience...and it highlighted those same conditions in why I had my A's...how much I cut my spouse off from getting deposits into my love bank...and how I justified, discounted and dismissed.

Even in the function there is information. I promise.

There are upward spirals. Great to hear that you thought about what was shared with you about becoming Team Marriage again after attacking it for so long, being its enemy.

In prayers,

LA

All depends on the time of the day.

During the day when she is busy everything is strangely normal.

But when we are going to bed that is the time she triggers and the questions come out. I answer her questions, although with some of the information I make sure she wants to really know before telling her.

She has even commented to the MC that she is not sure how to deal with this. She has tried to blame herself and I repeat over and over it is not her fault. I do support her comments about the OW, since now I am sharing them quite a bit.

Tough part is how to be open and honest since I did everything at work. There is no way for her to track what I do here (or at any job). So I talk to her throughout the day and make sure I give her my plans for the day etc....

I did a very good job of covering my tracks so proving anything to her is very difficult.

LovingAnyway:
Oh there are certain people here I want nothing to do with. Those people I will continue to ignore. Those people are also not the people that I have gained information from while lurking.

Does this analogy help?
You go to a bar and you are drunk. You offer a ride home to a person. You both know you are drunk. You don't know this person's family. You get into a car crash and the other person dies. You feel no remorse for the pain caused to this person's family?

Do I feel remorse for the pain I caused the other family???

My answer to that would still be no. The pain caused to her family is her burden not mine. Just as the damage I have done to my marriage is my burden.

I will admit part of the anger I am starting to feel towards her also plays into the idea of having no remorse towards her family. But my mind is clear on that topic.

I think you do care what people here think/say. The reason you do is because you love your wife and as strong willed as you can be you are open to learning why you had an A and what it has done to your BW. I think it is a good thing that you keep coming here even if you disagree with some people.

Now I do have a question that I am hoping someone can help me with.

That question is how to address the root cause of my willingness to have an affair.

See being in IT I always look for the root cause of a system failure. In this case the failure is staying loyal to my marriage. From the MB concepts and other reading I have figured out my root cause was my wife not meeting certain EN's (sf is not one of them) for years before the affair. From doing the questionnaires I still meet her and always made effort to do so. But the needs my OP was meeting are now not being meet at all, I have communicated that to my wife. Because I do want to setup boundaries and to take care of the problems that caused the issues in the first place. But those needs are still there and not being meet.

I know this all sounds selfish but I am being honest that those needs have to be meet or I am still vulnerable to straying. Let me tell you straying for 3+ years does change you outlook on things. So please don't give me the answers of morals, you promised, vows etc.... those concepts (obviously) mean little to me. So I need help on trying to get needs like affection (top need) meet, so that I am not vulnerable.

See I don't know any longer if this is true.

One of the quotes someone made on a different thread was long the lines of if you are staying for the kids make the marriage better for them. I will be honest that right now my daughter is the driving factor in me staying. The logistics of a divorce are difficult but not impossible, but the damage to my child is something else.

That idea struck home some I want to make things better to want to stay. Believe me I am trying everything I can find to help. If I can fall in love with my wife again bonus, if I can just become content that works also.

Of course you don't know if this is true. You are still in what is called a fog. You have to decide if you want to try to work on your marriage. If you do then you go 100% and do everything you can to recover your relationship with your wife. The best case, you fall back in love. Worst case, you told her the truth and you tried to make things work as best as you can.

BTW there is a difference between loving your wife and being in love with your wife. I think you may be uncertain that you are in love with your wife. That being said, do you love your wife?

Well, one thing, don't expect those things to be met by your wife any time soon, I would bet.

And second. You can't talk about how to improve your marriage WITHOUT talking about promises, morals etc. And if these things mean NOTHING to you, well, marriage isn't for anyone. Marriage is FULL of stuff that you need to do that are important ONLY because of promises and morals.

Just the way I see it. Approaching a relationship between two emotional, feeling human beings with the same approach you would have to a machine is gonna prove to be an exercise in futility.

You know a friend asked me this very question.

I would say I don't love my wife like a husband should. Yes I love my wife as a companion I care about and as the mother of my child but nothing past that.

That statement is based on the fact I put so much emotional effort into the OW for so long that my love (romantic type) shifted from my wife to the OW. I do look at my wife differently now then I did long ago, which for me is causing problems.

gabagool:
You maybe right, that is one thing I am struggling with right now. The more and more I come out of the fog the more and more I realize what is missing and had been compensated for by the OW. Which is the reason I cannot rely on morals, promises etc... I already know if given the right set of circumstances I can stray. So trying to change circumstances to avoid that outcome has become something I am trying to do.

But you maybe right marriage is not for everyone and I honestly may not be the with the right person for marriage.

Sorry, no easy answer for you IT guy.

You are/were morally corrupt.

That's where you have to change.

See, it's your base programming. Sorry, no BUG fix for you.

You need to re-write the code entirely.

Hu,

In IT terms...the state of your system (the marriage) might have been pre-A a little sluggish, frustrating, seemingly unrewarding and functioning...you chose to hammer it with a trojan which annihilated your vows, your wife and the marriage.

Why did you choose to have an affair? Only you know...the formula Gimble shared:

An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

You know your own ingredients...see, it's not from your BW not meeting your ENs...it's from you choosing to create resentment from your ENs not being met, piled up repeatedly into entitlement...all through a lack of respect for yourself, your BW and the marriage.

See if that fits...because you cut out a lot of love deposits BW was making in meeting your ENs when over time, meeting your ENs so you could feel it required her doing certain things, in a certain way, when you wanted her to...like I said earlier...like trying to make a love deposit in a carnival game...you rigged it.

Resentment can do that...WhoDat said Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. And I just heard Joseph Fiennes say that line in a movie over the weekend. (Quoting all my sources.)



Now you've got some long time withdrawal to get all the way through...you didn't go NC until June 1st or mid-June, did you? For a three year A, I would think at the minimum at least six months of withdrawal...because the A didn't self-destruct on its own power, did it? OW's H found out and she ended it, correct? That means you gotta know you have some fog you're filtering information through which you cannot detect fully...rely on that. It's real. You've practiced deception (I repeat myself) for a long time, moment to moment for more than a thousand days. Whew. Please accept you're not going to be thinking straight, resentment and entitlement free for awhile yet...with bright times of clarity in between.

If your top EN is admiration...then that's an EN not going to be met for quite awhile, neither by you within yourself or by your BW...because understanding the depth of your deception will overwhelm both of you, again and again, for quite some time.

Nothing your BW could have done would have warranted your A. Nothing. Period. You did it and she could not deserve it no matter how treated you. Nor did you deserve it...and you did it to yourself, too.

Start there and figure out the permissions you've had within yourself to do and do back to others if you think they deserve it. Find out if you've lived on the earning love and punishment belief throughout your marriage, and if you now choose to believe love is a verb, and you choose to love your BW, and choose to act from your love, not dependent on her response...and then you will experience loving feelings.

You focus on her ENs which you didn't meet for three years, really...because had she known from the start of your A of it, then she wouldn't have allowed a single EN to be met, would she?...false deposits evaporate with DDay...now you meet them...part of the redemption you may desire...for you hacked at something that could not merit in anyway your blade.

You talked and behaved yourself into something you cannot undo, ever. You did not take extraordinary precautions, practice radical honesty, the rule of protection, spend the time with your BW in Undivided Attention, nor POJA with her...and now, you can...and experience a marriage which will blow your mind...

Also, because of your past deception on MB, please ask your BW to do this for the marriage...to register and post under her own name, on her own thread, to continue your commitment to radical honesty...own all you did, why you did it, and why and how you won't do it again, 'k?

Btw, please carefully consider how your BW met your ENs fully...and it was you who was not also meeting them in yourself...so you went out and found a flimsy mirror, someone to fake meet them to in your very fake relationship...all based in fantasy...

Sounds nasty of me...truly very honest and sincere...OW wasn't real in any way...your BW is real...your real partner, whom you treated as an enemy as you were an enemy of your marriage...and when it hits you that your wife was real all along, and how the A wasn't...then you'll grasp the undeserved grace your BW is offering right now...and may not later...she may change her mind...so fight hard now...and I think you know this already...why you kept reading...searching...asking yourself.

Affection, in part, is acceptance...physically, it accepts you, the whole of you, as you are...and again, the practiced rejection you did for three years will block this for awhile...affection in words, actions, too...will be hard to handle for quite awhile. I think it's where what you do to heal your BW, act transparently as you are (in all ways) now, follow the rules of marriage, stay honest and answer her questions, are acts of acceptance of what you did...so her affection (which is within her staying present right now, not ending the marriage) can get through.

In an A, all the burden to meet all your needs is in fantasy...learn how you stopped meeting your own ENs pre-A, too...how you focused on lack when you actually lived in abundance.

LA

Wrong. You still don't get it. You keep harping on the fact that you are an "IT" professional as if that implies you have some irrefutable logic ingrained into your being.

But your wife not meeting ENs is not the root cause of your inability to remain faithful. It is the root cause of your unhappiness in your marriage. There are many different ways to deal with that unhappiness, some healthy, some not. Your inability to remain faithful was a conscious selection, by you, of an unhealthy option to resolve that unhappiness.

The root cause does not lie in unmet needs. It lies somewhere in a flawed decision making process or latent sense of selfishness/entitlement.

If you tell yourself that unmet needs results in infidelity, you are putting the burden of your faithfulness squarely on your wife.

Look elsewhere.

Was this the thread that you referenced about kids? It has some pretty diverse points of view in it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2113167#Post2113167

Hu:

I'm glad you came back.

I'm even happier that you told your wife.

Your list of things your starting to realize?

Well, that list will get longer the more your OW fades into the rear view mirror.

There is a reason you married your W.
There is a reason you never left her for the "perfect" OW.
There is a reason you structured your life is such a way that you could find all the time in the world to be with the OW and not spend that time on your M.

And it had nothing to do with your W not meeting your EN's.

That may have created a bad marriage. But it was your decision to fall into the arms of OW. You didn't ask for your W's permission to do it did you?

Your W was a good woman. That's why you married her.
She IS the reason you never left for OW.
And sneaking around is what do when you are married to a good woman.

Because I was ALL THAT. I have 1.5 years more of that life than you do.

Do you want to stay for your daughter? That's an excellent reason.
Don't want to pay for or go thru the pain of a divorce? That's and excellent reason too. You might still go thru it, but it's a good reason to stay together.

Now. Look up some posts from tst. HE lists the Extraordinary Precautions (EP's) that he had to live his life by to prevent himself from getting into another A. The only ONE who can prevent you from falling into another Affair is YOU.

Your W can stop meeting your EN's. But the solution isn't another A.

Had I not been introduced to MB a couple of days before D-Day, I WOULD be divorced now. I learned things from the website, then the books, and we then went to the MB weekend. All of that helped Flamingo and I find a way to a better relationship and M.

And there is NO WAY you can tell me that your BS was worse than my W. Because she wasn't.

The solution to your waywardness is in YOU. Can I cheat again on my W? Certainly. But I now know where the boundaries ARE. I KNOW where I used to lift an eyebrow, and sense that a woman "might" be interested in something more. If it wasn't the OW that I did find, it would have probably been another one before long. That is NO LONGER the case. The radar is still there, but it isn't transmitting, and I talk to Flamingo about potential threats. (I.e., women who might be a threat to our M. I let her KNOW)

MB changed me in ways I could never understand before. That's why I won't have another A. That's WHY I continue to post. That's WHY you stay here and lurk. It's pulling YOU in the direction that YOU know you need to follow.

One foot in front of the other. Your TOO close to the blast site now, but just keep walking. The burns and the singed hair will start to heal, but you MUST walk the rest of the way.

One day, it will be 1 month past D-day. Then it will be two. And if you really work it, one day you will notice it has been a year. And you realize how far you came. And wonder WHY you took so long to get HERE.

LG

LovingAnyway, andrew3 and lousygolfer:

Thank you for your responses they are giving me a lot to think about. In directions I had not thought to go.

LovingAnyway:

Can you explain this more? Because I don't follow it.

"Btw, please carefully consider how your BW met your ENs fully...and it was you who was not also meeting them in yourself...so you went out and found a flimsy mirror, someone to fake meet them to in your very fake relationship...all based in fantasy.."


Overall I know the circumstances that lead up to me being willing to have the affair. It is a specific set of circumstances. You all hit the note on the entitlement that I had not though of. That is very true. That entitlement combined with two other factors does set the stage.

As for my wife posting here, not going to happen. I have asked. It if for a specific set of reasons.
1) She does not want to talk about our problems to strangers on the internet. She is not comfortable talking to her friends about it so she is not going to post.
2) She was very put off by the overall tone of a lot of the posts here. The open hostility made her not interested in the least. She made a comment that some of those folks sound like religious nuts.

I will keep trying but not going to promise anything about my wife showing up here.

Well no, you are not vulnerable to straying at all. Surely you have learned something from your mistakes and have placed protective boundaries in place so you don't repeat that stupidity?

Secondly, your wife has just been dealt the biggest blow of her life. She is on the floor bleeding. Would you be kind enough to allow her to stop BLEEDING OUT before she services your SF needs? Or would that be too much to ask?

And lastly, I do not believe you told your wife the truth because a) you are entirely too fogged out and b) you have absolutely no regard for her pain. So, I don't believe it.

And I won't believe it and won't until she comes here [HERSELF] and convinces us.