Skald confessed tonight that he broke the NC - he's been calling her for the last week. All of you were right. I was an imbecile for ever trying to trust him.

Right now I'm not sure what I want. I know the true meaning behind "There's a thin line between love and hate." I'm riding the line. Part of me still wants to work on this and part of me wants to head straight for Plan D.

I get that he could have gone on without telling me and maybe I should be grateful that he took the step to do so, but right now I don't give a damn about his "good deed". If he hadn't busted the NC, he wouldn't have had anything to confess to in the first place!!! Ooh....he feels disgusted with himself. SO DO I!!! I don't even want him to touch me.

Part of what I wonder about right now is that it didn't hurt so much as royally piss me off. He's hurt me so much already that at the moment I feel beyond pain. Just pure anger and betrayal.

He understands that I might want to go straight to Plan B from here and says that he won't make it easy for me to not see him. He'll sit outside my work everyday on lunch and sit outside the house and all this other stuff. All of a sudden he realizes what he's very possibly lost and is ready to fight for us. I'm not sure that it's not too late. Maybe that's the fresh anger and pain talking at the moment, but I honestly don't know right now.

He wrote a NC letter tonight. I have to go over it yet. Not sure I really care.

Well, it sucks that he can read any plans you make on MB ...

it also sucks I was right

FWIW my FWW broke NC at least a half dozen times that I know of. It did stop but I was the one who had to cut off her contact - she was incapable. Even in withdrawal, she thanked me for cutting off contact because, even in her fogged out state, she knew it was necessary.

The opposite of love is not hate - it is indifference. If you "hate" WH, then there is still love behind it.

How did you cut off her contact?? He knows her number - can call her from any phone. He knows where she works - can see her if he wants. He knows where she lives - can see her there any time. How do I stop it??? We've changed his number, blocked her incoming emails, blocked her site online. If he really wants to have contact, there is NO way I can stop him. If there's a will, there's a way.

I was lucky in that the calls were long distance. I had to cut off her funding. OM actually gave her a cell phone from long distance. I found it and ran over it with the Tahoe. I was able to leave her penniless so she could not buy phone cards. Affairs cost money. Cut off the money and you cut off the A.

OTOH, if a wayward wants to cheat, they'll cheat. If he keeps breaking contact, I'm sure you'll end in divorce. You will get to the point, sooner or later, that he just isn't worth the pain and suffering.

Once you become indifferent, it's time to walk.

Thanks - that made me laugh a little.

I've already told him I'm taking his cell phone. We don't have a house phone and my friends that he works with will really be watching his every move now. I guess that's something to start with.

I already have a facebook account to keep in contact with my cousin in CA. Unfortunately OW is on there too - she used to be one of my friends.

Get a restraining order if he starts stalking you as he says he will.

DF,

I sensed, sorry to say, that Skald was not out of the fog on a different thread where we were talking. He upbraided myself and another BS-poster for making "inflammatory comments" in response to the 2 of us pointing out some obvious foggy rationalizations and defenses of the A/OP made by another former WS.

You may want to give skald an ultimatim about ABSOLUTE and PERPETUAL NC once and for all or DIVORCE...he has had plenty of "education" on his condition. Of course, you have to be prepared to follow through on your threat to Plan D if needed.

I'm sorry your WH has had every opportunity and still apparently doesn't get how important NC is for you, your M, and FOR HIM as well.

I think it was the great philosopher Frederick Nietzsche who said;

"You got to know when to hold em
Know when to fold em
Know when to walk away and know when to run"

BTW and OT but my favorite graffiti of all time was painted on a wall at school. It said:

"God is dead"

(signed) Nietzsche

And below it was painted:

"Nietzsche is dead"

(signed) God

I believe it was Johnny Cash in the first instance. In the second instance, I did have that exact quote in my MB sig until the TOS prohibited such and c00per emailed me to change my sig.....

Johnny Cash?

Aussies!

It was a song called "The Gambler" I believe.

Not Johnny?

Kenny Rogers.

Charlotte

no no no no no

Kenny Rogers wasn't a great philosopher.

Didn't he make chicken?

Yessssssssssssssss

Kenny Rogers.

Neither was Frederick Nietzsche

Yep, and a DANG good tune, too. He has lots. I still can't listen to "Daytime Friends and Nighttime Lovers," though.

Charlotte

Chicken?

I dunno. Maybe he tried his hand at the food biz like a lot of others in the music biz. If he did his chicken never made it to Texas, though!

Charlotte

There was a Kenny Rogers Roasters right next to my apartment building in Dubai. One time gemela went to Mexico on holiday. Me, being lazy, I bought a Kenny Rogers roaster for dinner every night for a week.

I've never had any since.

Not since that bout of hypertrophic pyloric stenosis resulting from the last roaster.

:MrEEk:

Yikes!!

You know, that name does sound familiar. Maybe he had some in Tennessee and...where is it that a lot of entertainers go? Oh yeah...Branson, Missouri.

We had Mickey Gilley here, though, as I'm sure you know. He opened a regular restaurant at a different location a few years after Gilley's burned down but I think it eventually folded.

Charlotte

Skald has always been defensive about his beliefs about anything and it has gotten much worse since the beginning of the A. That has always been one of the biggest LBs and has quickly become THE worst.

Sorry about the t/j, drgnfly!!

Charlotte

That's okay....was actually quite funny. LMAO about most of it. Laughing is good. So is chicken.

drgnfly,

It was an intentional t/j on my part. I was hoping you might smile for a couple of moments.

We're still here.

Thanks. So am I.

How did you get past all the times your W broke NC? How did you react? What's the best way to deal with this and move forward?

drgnfly,

I've always said if you can't laugh about infidelity, what's the point of having it?

(that's sarcasm BTW).

Heck yeah!!

'Specially FRIED chicken. HOME fried!

Charlotte

I hope you won't mind my butting in here, drgnfly and piojitos. I'm a very unhappy survivor of repeated contact and I want to urge you to "walk', in some way drgnfly, LONG before you reach the stage of indifference. Before you reach indifference you will go through mental breakdown. You cannot afford to let that happen.

I don't think that there is any way to stop a WS from making contact. It does not matter what transparency skald offers drgnfly. As she says, he knows OW's number and he can contact her any time he likes. He can do so from work by phone or internet. He can use a public phone or an internet cafe. He can set up an email account that he only accesses when he is out of the house. Although he has given you access to his mobile phone, he can get a secret mobile and keep it at work, where drgnfly has no access.

Why should drgnfly even think of monitoring all these kinds of activities? BSs should not act as policemen. If skald wants to contact OW he should know that he is free to do so. drgnfly should let him get on with his relationship and end hers with him until he no longer wants to contact OW. drgnfly, why would you want to force someone to be with you if he wants to be with someone else? Forcibly cutting off contact is forcing him to give up OW. Surely you want him to WANT to give her up. He does not want that yet.

What he says about sitting outside your house etc. shows that he wants you and his marriage, but his calls to OW show that he wants her too. His refusal to "let you give up on him" (or however he is putting it) shouldn't affect your decision to stay away from a man who wants to be with a woman other than you.

I don't quite agree with piojitos that cutting off money from a non-earning spouse cuts off the affair. In these days of the internet it is perfectly possible to have daily contact with no money at all.

I live in England. Here, local authorities provide free internet access for one hour per day to each library member, at branch libraries. Our libraries are open 7 days per week.

I have no internet at home, but I can use my library ticket, and my two children's, and so get up to three hours' free internet use a day. I don't actually have to have my ticket on my person; I log in using a membership number and pin. It would be hard for a working husband such as you, pio, to monitor your stay-at home-mum wife and stop her going out for one hour (or even 20 minutes to quickly check and send a message).

If any such free internet system exists where you were living when the affair was discovered pio, it was possible and easy for your W to keep in daily contact.

Spying on a suspected WS is necessary for a BS, so that she knows what is going on and can plan her future. Policing a WS and trying to force NC is degrading and ultimately self-defeating.

I don't have any advice on Plans B or D for you, drgnfly, but I know, from bitter experience, that you will facilitate skald's contact if you continue as you have been. You did not know how he felt about OW and whether he was contacting her until now, so you had no choice but to go with his words. Now you know that he has been disguising his feelings even while posting here and seemingly committing to recovery. There is no reason to believe that this won't happen again, now.

I don't have time to post my story of my H's repeated contact with his OW, but if you check my posts you will see the story in the first few, on tully's thread.

You don't deserve this, drgnfly. My heart goes out to you.

Hi 'fly.

I realised early on in recovery that it would be quite exhausting for me to police NC on behalf of my (then)WW.

So I turned it around. I set a personal boundary of UTTER transparency of activity.

I required that Squid demonstrate her total transparency at all times in order for me to continue to invest in our marriage.

MY how she raged at this ! Because, of course, she had been in regular sneaky contact with OM.

If she did anything I asked about and got a rubbish answer I'd remind her that I needed transparent NC just as a basic for me to stay working on our M.

In a short time Squid did this. I was deluged with supporting information regarding who / what / where / when / why of her activities.

I DID still continue to "trust but verify", but it was far less exhausting than doing it to "catch out" a sneaky wayward.

Such transparency is now normal between us and causes no resentment. People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Hope this helps.

Bob

SugarCane,

While I like to try to be optimistic, I agree with what you are saying based on my own history.

I made myself sick over repeated NC violations, monitoring, paranoia. It made me into someone I didn't want to be.

I finally reached a point where I decided that it was not my job to keep my spouse from having an A - that is her job. I still feel that way.

It is my belief that skald will never be capable of doing what it takes based on his posts to his thread. Subconsciously some people want to fail and they manipulate others into being their downfall. Skald fits that for me. He says it is up to drgnfly to see if this M is saved or not then qualifies it as it is up to her to see if she will give him the chance. His head just isn't in the right place. He can't stop contact which means he will never get over OW and will destroy any remaining love drgnfly has for him.

He should either leave and go with OW or fall all over himself to keep drgnfly. This guy is in the middle. That's a bit unusual - at least for MB. He needs to decide what he wants. I don't think drgnfly should necessarily walk right now. She is in a better position to know but I see things getting worse before they get better (if they get better).

{{{drgnfly}}}}

Don't believe anything your WH has to say until it is backed up by actions. If he can't give you NC today, then Plan B to shield yourself from his cruelty. Don't give in to his promises as he is not a man of his word.

Charlotte, why did I not know we were neighbors? I remember going to Gilley's before it burned down. I remember being so embarrassed by Urban Cowboy.

ETA: Oops! Sorry for the T/J!

I don't think anyone but you call yourself "imbecile".
You can't trust him. You should not "try" to trust him.

Recovery of trust after infidelity starts with the BS learning to trust herself.
You cannot trust yourself to know what is fact and what is emotional blowback.

Concentrate your efforts on yourself. NOT on Skald the fallen.

What do you trust about Drgnfly? I know from experience that it is likely you don't trust yourself to know a lie when someone you love is telling you something you want to be true.

Check your bullcrap meter - if the words do not match behavior - it's deja moo once more.

If the words are not humble - it's deja moo.
If there is an undercurrent of anger/resentment/whining .... do not trust.

Trust this ~~~> YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TRUST YOURSELF once more when you stop "trying" to trust Skald.

Don't trust him.
Trust yourself.
Trust yourself that in the future you will recognize humble and sincere effort on Skald's part to be a better man, a better human being. This may not even begin for another 6-12 months!

Don't look at Skald for answers - look to God to lead your way.

Remember this, Skald needs to reach up and out - do not reach down to lift him. His efforts to help himself are his only salvation. Any help you give him robs Skald of the opportunity to "man up" , as we say around here.

Pep

I do believe that skald has finally come to feel true remorse for his actions. The one thing about him I've always been able to trust were his tears. Skald is NOT someone that can "turn on the waterworks". In 14+ years he's only cried a handful of times and those were extremely emotionally hard times and the day our daughter was born. No matter how well he can lie and turn on the anger and bad stuff, he's never been able to make himself cry.

Don't get me wrong here - I'm all too happy to see him suffer like that. To finally feel the pain of what he's done. It's way overdue.

Skald is willing to do a lie detector test, put a keylogger on the computer, he gave me his phone, and we are writing the letter of NO CONTACT together. We plan to post it on our threads to make sure we have everything covered before we send it out. I am also sending a copy to OWH. He deserves to see the steps taken too.

I have informed OWH about the recent contact. She has been crawling back to him crying that she misses him and the boys. She has done this to him with multiple men. He and I talked about it and came to this theory: Women often look for someone like their daddy. Her dad had an affair and left his wife for the other woman. He treats his daughter like a princess and she gets whatever she wants, so it makes sense that she wants someone like her daddy that will leave his wife for her and spoil her completely - that's her ideal man. She is a truly messed up individual. I guess it goes to show how much impact an A can have on the children.

Pep, that is some of the GREATEST advice I have EVER read.

I can see it as life-changing.

Blessings,

Skald and OW are (currently) equally matched in the ethics department.

His (apparent) remorse does not render him trustworthy.
His emotional ups and downs are not things recovery can be built upon.

Be very careful about your wishfull thinking right now.

.... sound like someone you know? Skald maybe?

I don't have wishful thinking right now. It's just nice to see that he finally sees what he's done and the consequences of his actions. And it feels damn good to see him hurting for once.

I honestly don't know what I'm thinking right now. I was wrong about the love/hate - I think I'm on the line of love/indifferent. Part of me still loves him and part of me has been hurt beyond repair. Or so it seems at the moment. I really don't feel anything right now.

The only thing I do know is I deserve a whole lot better than this and if he can't get his stuff together and be the man I deserve, he better get to packing.

drgnfly be careful. You thought WH was not in contact because you wanted to believe him. Now he's shed some tears so you think he's believable again. He might feel bad but that doesn't mean he understands what he has done. You were kicking yourself yesterday and today WH has you thinking he's seen the light.

drgnfly,

I'd say hold back on any trust at all until you have had a good stretch of NC, that you can verify. He never makes it very far, so it's unlikely he's even faced the challenge of withdrawal. Needs the drug every few days. Still addicted, for sure, regardless of his remorse.

I'll stick my neck out and say he shouldn't be given any trust until he's gone through withdrawal, but that hasn't even really begun yet.

So protect your heart!

RHW

Drgnfly,


I could be wrong, but here is what I think. No doubt he feels bad for hurting you, but someone so close to the A, who just broke NC and obviously in more withdrawal than he chooses to believe is still thinking about himself. He's probably more mad and upset with himself than he is with how you are feeling. Right now he feels weak and stupid for not controlling his actions. My guess is, although some of the tears are for your hurt, most are because he is feeling a lot of self-pity right now.

I would also be willing to bet he will completely disagree with me because he probably isn't ready to admit this to himself.

ETA: My thoughts are not along the lines of explaining why he did what he did, they are to let you know not to put too much stock in the tears is all.

LC

You are not wrong. 100% correct.

I don't trust him. He doesn't deserve my trust. He doesn't deserve me. If he wants to make this work, he has a lot of work to do. I don't believe any words that are spewed out of his mouth. He's too good at lying for me to believe anything.

That being said, how do we go about this? How do we Plan A now? How do I go on with meeting ENs and no LBs when I feel this way? I've ordered four of Dr. Harley's books - waiting for them to get here. Hopefully today. That would be good timing. I ordered "Surviving the Affair", "Falling in Love, Staying in Love", "His Needs/Her Needs" and "His Needs/Her Needs for parents". It's a good thing we both like to read because we have a lot of reading to do. I guess from checking out other threads we should try to read them together and make that part of our time. We'll see.

You don't.

Don't LB - but tread water

Skald needs to do the heavy lifting - YOU have been trying to save the marriage and he's been pulling against your efforts - it's HIS turn now

Give him the Harley # and tell him to make an appointment for himself

let HIM make the appointment

The purpose of Plan A is to show the WS that the BS is ready willing and able to meet the (reasonable) ENs of the WS.

You ALREADY did that !

Plan A for the next 5 years will not fix Skald's character defects.

read this post

Set the bar HIGH - he needs to "man up"

This just makes me think more and more that IF (thats a big IF)MY WH ever wants to reconcile he will have to be on his knees begging. THen I will still say no. Until he tries more and more to prove to me that he is truly remorseful.

I mean I have waited {and am still waiting} over a year and he is still not shown any interest in M recovery. If I can wait this long for a person that lied and betrayed me. I just now feel that he should try at least that long to win me back.

I know that is unrealistic so i will probabley never recover my marriage. but i just feel like us BS have been through so much
pain that WS should being working on their end to make it up to us. I just dont know if i can take anymore of their sneaky lies and false recoveries just when i start to feel a tiny bit better.

Call BS 20 times a day, text BS 500 times a month, take BS to lunch everyday, Send BS flowers, check on what BS is doing. Even after BS says she wants nothing to do w you. At least put in the same effort that WS put into OW for so long. Then maybe Id take you back.


Sorry just vented a little

Awesome link, Pep.

Drgnfly, your world is whirling again because you've had another D-day. Pep is right. Do not settle for crumbs. Set the bar high. Do you know what that means?

Yes, Pep, that is an awesome link. In fact, I just printed it out to show my FWH. We've been recovering for 2 1/2 years, and there are still times that I struggle. I have known why but couldn't convey it in the simple way Steve did. He made it so clear.

Many thanks.

Right Here Waiting

The books did come today. Gonna get to reading.

When SMB & I counseled with the Harley's, we were told to begin with HNHN first and work through the questionaires ASAP.

At the same time we worked through SAA and some of the principles outlined in the book.

It was explained to us that NC letter must come first followed by extra-ordinary precautions list by WH. If Scald will continue to stay on his thread myself and others will help him with this.

Pleeeease post Scalds NC letter before mailing it for feedback!

Pleeeease consider calling the Harley's and scheduling an appointment with them.

LINK to schelule appointment

Our NC letter:

"I'm writing this letter to you to terminate our relationship. What we did was selfish and wrong. I wish I could go back and erase it all. I realize now that our whole relationship was an illusion based on lies that we made to ourselves and to each other. My marriage with drgnfly is real and I can't believe I hurt the only woman I've ever loved. She and DD are everything to me and I am 100% committed to making my marriage work and making it better than ever before. My wife deserves the best and I want to be that for her.

I am issuing this letter to state that there will be NO CONTACT for the rest of my life. To enforce this I have deleted all my personal emails, permanently blocked you on my work email, asked my co-workers to screen the calls coming in and so on. I do NOT want to see or talk to you EVER again."

Any suggestions or advice for changes?

We were thinking it would be better for skald to hand-write this so she is certain that he sent the letter and not me. What do you think? Is it good or bad to be more personal like that?

Absolutely handwritten.

I commented on his thread. I think the letter's good.

I think this letter is awesome. It says what most BS's want to hear...and want OW to hear. I noted in red a few changes I suggest. I will also post those changes on your WS's thread.




I don't know if I would include this. I think it has more impact when the OW tries to call the cell and finds the number has been changed. I dream of what that must have been like for OW. If OW tries the cell and can't get through, then tries the email and it bounces and tries the work number and is screened out, I think it has more impact on HER that NC is in place and he is serious about it.

I understand where you are coming from completely, but the last time we did NC, we waited until the first time she called then changed his number so she would KNOW it was because she contacted him. It seemed as soon as she learned this, she doubled her efforts to contact him. She called him at work a couple times per day on a "private number", but his co-workers intercepted the calls. She tried to email him, but they didn't get through. She already knows that he's changed some things and I'm wondering if it's good to just get it out there that the changes have been made.

And yes, I would have LOVED to have seen the look on her face when she found that he had changed his number!

Oh yeah! That is ONE thing I would have loved to see too!!! I know just WHEN she realized his number was changed because she immediately tried to call MY cell phone. MANY times.

I LOVED it !!!! I LOVED knowing how desperate she was to get hold of him and that she COULDN'T. Even now, 18 months later, it still gives me GREAT satisfaction.

Sorry for the TJ. I agree. Great NC letter, especially with SMB's changes.

drgnfly,

please read this link today.

I posted this to your H to also read.

I pray your day goes well.

LINK

Thank you. I noticed the link on skald's thread and read it earlier. He'll see it when he gets home tonight. I think I'll print it out and put it on the wall so we are reminded daily.

We are starting to take turns reading HNHN to each other every night before bed. We will read SAA separately. We also want to take turns reading our favorite books to each other. We talked for a long time last night and decided to work on one day at a time.

Skald at this very moment is having lunch with OWH. He is personally handing a copy of the NC letter to him and apologizing for the hurt he's inflicted. He believed OWH to be a monster by everything she said about him to everyone, and it really opened skald's eyes yesterday that when I told OWH about the calls, he was very supportive of us working on things and defended skald to me. He said that skald will have a hard time getting past this and he prays for us all the time and believes we can get past this and have a wonderful marriage.

For my piece of mind, Skald thought to ask OWH to text me and let me know they were having lunch so I would know for sure that's where he said he would be. Usually we have lunch together every day along with DD.

Also, we have come up with a sort of "visual" system for the NC. My WH is very visual (as most men seem to be), so I suggested we "X" out every day that there is NC. That way he can "see" how far he's made it. Last time it was 2 1/2 weeks before he slipped, and he can't believe he went that long and lost it all. This way he'll be able to have a visual of how long it's been and maybe a better way to strengthen his resolve.

GOOD PLAN !

Pepper:

Sorry for the (very temporary) TJ...could you post the link of the "notable posts" you did a few days ago.

I am particularly interested in the thread on affair-marriages I saw within. Thanks and sorry again.

I mailed the NC letter today. She should have it tomorrow or the next day.

Thinking of you this morning and praying for you and your husband.

How are you today?

I just read the quote in your sig line.

It is beautiful!

That quote is another one of the blessings/miracles that keep landing in my path. I came across it yesterday and it was SO right! Things like that make each day easier to bear.

This site is another one of those moments. I was nearly out of hope and I did the same Google search I'd done numerous times and for the first time MB popped up. That day changed the course of our lives. My guardian angel was surely guiding me that day. We have met the most amazing, inspirational people here, and I thank GOD everyday for all of you.

Thank you for all the prayers. I can tell they're working.

drgnfly,

Just caught up on your thread and saw your NC letter. Wow. I think it's better than any I've seen in the books! Even more so after SMB's small but powerful changes. Left absolutely no room for misunderstanding.

Still, I know from experience that OW's can be very hard to shake. Mine was wicked on that score too. Marking the days of NC off on the calendar sounds like a great idea...not just for Skald, but for you too! I think you'll both be very happy when you X off one more than the last go at NC. That will be a good day.

You've done an excellent job throughout, and I really hope it leads to a strong recovery.

Blessings on you both.

Right Here Waiting

Advice please?

My parents are flying home next weekend. I am supposed to pick them up at the airport which is 3 hours away. Normally Skald and I would do this together, but he is uneasy about making the trip this time. He has seen my Mom since D-day, but he hasn't seen my Dad. They say that as far as they're concerned nothing ever happened and they still love Skald as much as they did before and if this is what I want they are behind us 100%. However, we're both afraid it is going to be very awkward and uncomfortable for the 3 hours driving home.

I was hoping to go down on Saturday do some Christmas shopping, stay the night, and pick them up the next day. I thought it would be good opportunity for us to get out of town and have some family time, but it won't be that much fun if we're worried about the confrontation the next day.

Any ideas on how to handle this?

POJA this with Skald. It's an excellent opportunity to try out your shiny new MB tools.
POJA starts with both being HONEST about how you feel ... then brainstorming a solution you are both happy about.

May I suggest - do not tell any lies if asked a direct question.

My husband furthered our recovery the day he called my parents to apologize - they were gracious and his apology did not hinder our recovery at all - just the opposite.

Skald needs to be feeling strong about himself when he makes an apology like that - so, it can wait until he's got his feet firmly underneath him.

Great plan to spend some time together with Skald.

I would NOT avoid the car ride together.

not to mention...you being away from skald for 6+ hours on a weekend is NOT a good idea right now!


Very important for everyone to be open and honest about what happened if it comes up in discussion.

drgnfly,

I can empathize with this situation. My FWH could not face our two grown children in the early months after he ended his A. Unfortunately, I had little sympathy for his position at the time, and was upset that he wouldn't deal with our kids. He'd hurt them too! I think your approach, being concerned with Skald's feelings so early into this, is admirable.

Learning from having handled this a different way, here's my take: If Skald is not ready to deal with this issue with your parents right now, it could negatively impact your early recovery. His first priority has to be getting himself on surer footing with himself and with you. This may cause some discomfort in other relationships for a time, but which relationship MUST be repaired before any of the others matter?

Could you take TWO cars to the airport city? Do your shopping, have some fun, stay the night together there, and Skald heads home the next day. You head for the airport to meet Mom and Dad.

During the trip from the airport, I don't see how you could avoid any conversation on this topic with the 'rents...it is too important to ignore, and they are deeply concerned about you. Perhaps you and Skald can decide together what you will say to them while they are visiting.


Right Here Waiting

I talked to my Mom earlier and explained that he's worried about it being awkward. She said there is nothing to worry about.

The other vehicle is a possibility, but I'm not sure I want him going home alone while I'm a couple hours away - driving by himself bored and having all that time to slip up. I do not trust that nothing will happen and frankly he doesn't trust himself very much right now either after breaking NC last time, so I don't want to make a situation available.

One thing that helped in the process is that we switched phones today, so when my Mom called me she actually got him. They talked for a while and she told him she loves him and can't wait to see him next week. He told her how much we miss them and he really meant it. He told me that it made him realize that he had fog about them too and that helped lift it a bit more and remind him of how much he does love my family.

He plans to talk with them face to face. He's not sure when, but he agrees that he needs to be strong enough to do it.

On the bright side, our DD will probably demand all their attention the whole trip home. She has a way of doing that and they are all to happy to oblige.

Well, then, if neither you nor Skald trusts him to have those few hours alone driving home, guess he should just go with you to pick up Mom and Dad. With DD in the car, it should be easier to keep it light. Maybe play "I spy" or some other car travel game. Christmas music on the radio and sing along? Skald in the back seat with DD, you closer to Mom and Dad?

How good of your mother to encourage Skald, now that he's made a commitment. Would Mom (and/or Dad) be willing to stay in touch with him after they go home to remind him how many people want this to work?

Skald showed me the phone activity for last week when he broke NC. In one day he spent nearly 30 minutes on the phone with her - every once in a while calling me to check in and then calling her right back.

I know slipping on NC is common, but the parts that hurt the most are that he must have waited until I was out of the room and called her, took time out of our UA to call her, and especially that he called her Thanksgiving night. Not only did he have to escape me to call her that night, but he NEVER even wished me a Happy Thanksgiving.

AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!

Hopefully I can process this and maybe salvage the day. I don't want to be upset and hurting all day long. I'm getting really tired of that.

Please listen to Pep.

The Wookie was SO afraid to talk to my dad, but everything "snapped" into place once my fwh showed my father that he held himself accountable for his actions.

Because of this fear, we spent a lot more time in turmoil and at a recovery roadblock than we should have if he'd just had manned up from the get-go.

And the Wook became a "real man" for all once he did it - even Pep gave a thumbs up.

Real men that love their wives, but made a mistake, apologize to EVERYONE that love the wife - because her pain is theirs.

This is part of my PTSD. It is just something you have to accept. I know it hurts. Nothing will make that better but success.

It seems like d**ned if do recover and d**ned if you dont. Either way the BS has to go thru so much Pain. and its seems that it is just never ending. I wish WS realized this before they abandoned their family and cheat.

All i can say is i am so sorry drgnfly. I can relate to your pain. Hang in there.

{{{{{{{{{{Drgnfly}}}}}}}}}}}

I am so sorry you had to go through this. I know this really hit you hard. I had a very similar situation in our early recovery. It was a horrid day and I retreated to a very dark place.

I am sure that my hysterical rage terrified my FWS. I was so triggered out I think I lost my mind.

How did you respond to the information? How did Skald respond to your response?

You see, that's what really matters at this point. You are going to have moments like this. Many, I'm sorry to say. But if Skald is willing to really be there for you and not retreat during these times, and you are willing to let him in to be the one who gets you through it, your recovery will flourish faster than you can imagine.

I was shocked at how many times he called and how long the calls were - he HATES talking on the phone. Always has. I was crushed about the call on Thanksgiving. I was and am pissed about the calls from our home while I was somewhere else in the house. I can understand (to a point) that his trigger times are when he's alone, but to wait until I'm out of the room???!!!

I am trying to focus on the bright side. She made some HUGE LBs during those calls. He took a huge leap through (not out of) the fog after those calls. He still has the withdrawal to get through and the fog induced with it, but he has come a long way towards realizing the pain he's put me through and how close he comes to losing me over this.

As for his reaction - he tried to hug me and calm me down. I wasn't ready to be touched yet, but it was a nice gesture. He didn't get it at first as to what upset me so much, but once I explained to him, he was floored by what I said. He never knew that he didn't tell me Happy Thanksgiving even. He was pretty upset with himself for doing that to me and apologized many times. Eventually I was able to sit down and talk and we got through another crisis together. The day has gotten progressivly better.

He was a little odd a little later. He was getting defensive over stupid things and a couple other "out of the norm" kind of things. I blew the "foghorn" and we sat down to talk. He thinks it was the shock of seeing the phone records too. He couldn't believe that what he was sure was four times for 5 minutes at the most turned out to be so much more.

I am taking his phone away (he was ready to smash it) so he can't make those impulsive calls. I also want it to make sure she doesn't have his number, and in the distant future it would be nice to give it back so we can comunicate to each other. I am keeping it in my office at work so he has NO access to it. That way I can be certain he has no way of sneaking it to call her.

We have been making plans as to what to do when we run into her or have those weak moments needing to call. The one thing that really scares us is running into her at the store with our DD. We're afraid she's going to go running to OW because they were "buddies" when WH worked with her. DD hasn't seen her since WH quit that job, but she has an amazing memory thought OW was great. We decided that I would be the one to grab her and state that the OW is no longer our friend and walk away. Maybe someday WH will be able to take care of this, but we both decided not to put him in that close of proximity to her. He can continue down another aisle while I do clean up. :twobyfour:

Thank you

Last night I was making changes to our MySpace accounts for Spam control. I figured I'd double check the block on OW page to make sure it was still up. This just brings up a list of blocked users and it shows their profile pictures. Her new profile picture is a picture of MY HUSBAND!!! It just goes to show what type of person she really is - trash.

Not that I'm recommending it, of course, but I remember reading a poster who said they went on FaceBook and posted their own version of information about OW. I believe the OW finally removed the offensive stuff.

You can notify myspace that she has a picture up of your H without his permission. They will make her take it down.

UGH! What a wicked thing to do. Her true colors are showing.

Thanks! Just sent them a message to remove the pic.

Drgnfly -- no great advice from me, sorry - but i can tell you that i share your myspace pain - my STBXH's OW doesn't have a pic of him (yet) but makes sure her comments on her page are very telling...'had fun last night' - 'have never been happier'...pardon me while i

i was very upset about this in the past until i came to the realization that OW must be pretty insecure about her relationship with my H if she finds it neccessary to post such immature drivel. i would try to take the same attitude about your OW posting the picture of your H.

I am satisfied in knowing that she has no idea what she is getting into with her serial-cheating (even on her already!) STD carrying boyfriend. We'll see how long she is 'happy'.

Immiture. Insecure. So very true. Thanks for the reminder!

The down side is she is going to know either or both of you checked her page and that alone should give here satisfaction and a high.

LC

I wanted to add another thought. As sick and twisted as it is, I would be willing to bet it was a test.

My opinon, from this point forward do not visit anything of hers. Who knows she may even have an ip tracker set up.


LC

on myspace i don't believe any names come through if you have gone on someone's page...it just lists the number of visits as far as i know?

I don't personally have a myspace page but have heard of people tracking users. I guess I was mistaken about tracking an ip, but a quick google search gave me sites like this.

http://www.profilesnitch.com/

LC

I wasn't visiting her site. We have her blocked on both of her sites, and I was updating our security info and the block came up with her pic. It doesn't bring up her page at all.

Neither of us check out her site. We have a block so she can't send us messages and we have internet security set up so we can't open her site at all.

Hey, how are you?

Are you guys doing OK?

Sorry it's been a couple days since I've posted. We're doing good. Had a couple rough spots, but we talked through them. You know how it is - a little detail comes out and gives a drop-kick to the stomach. It's hard because I know that knowing all the details won't help anything, but at the same time my imagination runs rampant without the details to hold it in place. Skald has been doing great at helping me through the rought spots though. We've been talking more than we have in a long time. We forgot how much fun it is to just gab about anything with each other.

I did send the message to MySpace from skald's account to have the pic of him removed from her site. Neither of us are looking at her site, so we don't know if it worked or not. I do have to admit that it makes me laugh now. By doing that, she showed him her true colors and is making him more disgusted with her at every turn. She's grasping at straws and using all the wrong ones.

We aren't going to head down to Appleton tomorrow to do our Christmas shopping before picking up the parents Sunday. The thought of taking our very active toddler into an extremely busy shopping mall just before Christmas sounds terrifying. BUT, she is going to spend the night at his parents tonight and tomorrow we're going to do some shopping just the two of us locally. Then Sunday morning we'll all drive down to pick up my parents! I'm excited to see them.

It's a good sign that we're making plans with friends to go see a Neal McCoy concert next month! We're extending further than day-to-day and making some fun plans for the future. We're both very excited about that.

Yesterday was our DD first school Christmas Program! She did awesome! I'm so glad Skald was around to see it.

:MerryChristmas:

Remember you're in it for the long haul...don't have to hash everything all out now...don't always have to talk about everything as it comes up...you've got time!

I went to lunch with DD, Mom, and Aunt today. Just as we were getting ready to go, OW came in with her brother and his girlfriend. I didn't expect to react so violently to seeing her so close. My main concern was that my DD would go running to her, so I had to distract her while I walked right past OW's table. I'm still shaking! I really didn't expect it to be this bad for me. At least I didn't have the urge to punch her face in like I did for a while. I know that this is the first of many occasions like this. I hope it will eventually get easier. I am thankful that Skald wasn't with me. That really would have been awkward.

How unfortunate.

Think of OW as a bug - a pest - not something bigger than you but smaller and very annoying....


shoo her off next time you run into her

I mean this LITERALLY

say "Shoo" and wave her away as you leave.

Thank you for the advice! The look on her face would be priceless!

and if DD4 makes any move toward OW say to DD4:

"Honey. OW has bugs and I don't want you to catch anything. Stay away from OW."

children understand when someone has bugs

I opened up WH's old hotmail account and found this unread message from OW from 11/20/08:

ok i can take a hint....i can see you and i are done forever, but i really need to tell you something, not something i can deal with myself, involves both of us, so please call me when you can......dont just ignore this, not fair to me


This email was from before he made those calls over the week of Thanksgiving, and she never mentioned anything during those calls that would relate to this email. Do you think it was just another ploy to get him to contact her or is it something I need to be worried about? I want to believe that he's telling me the truth and there isn't anything to this, but trust is still a major issue right now.

close the hotmail account

Of COURSE it was a ploy. For all you know, she might've thought it was the reason he contacted her after she wrote it! If she'd had anything of consequence, she'd have told him then. If it was what you suspect, he couldn't hide his agitation.

So good, though, that HE didn't open it, right? Focus on that, and on Skald's current transparency. Don't let old emails undermine what you two are building.

Pep's right--close that hotmail account now! NC with OW means NC for YOU too!!!

Holiday hugs,

Right Here Waiting

There is nothing better than SILENCE when she is trying to get attention....

Skald had deleted this account, but I was still seeing his info as still active on my account, so I checked it out and there was the email from her. I am happy that he didn't read that message, but I don't know what the email contained that she sent him on his yahoo account (he had about 4 - 5 different email addresses). She had sent an email to the yahoo account around the same time and he hadn't informed me of that until he told me about the phone calls, so she might have used that on him there too.

I put in a second request to delete the hotmail and found out that they keep it active for 120 days! If you log on in that time, it cancels the deactivation request. That's a big help.

BTW....he only has two emails now - work and home and we have taken all precautions on those. (Well, apparently there's the hotmail still lurking there for a couple months.)

If you're concerned about him logging into that hotmail account, then you can change the password to something he won't guess, and change the "secret question/answer" as well.

My wife used hotmail as a means to communicate with OM in her affair...and this is the action I took.

She'd already ended the affair by the time I did this...and never tried to access that account again as far as I could tell.

Once you've done this, you can leave it inactive for 120 days and it will be deleted automatically at that point.

Hi Owl. Long time no see :happyholidays: