Marriage Builders
Posted By: Carp54 Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 01:56 PM
Been lurking here awhile

I have been on the DB website for about 5 months and applying those principles to my sitch.
W has keen having an A since July 2007...she told me the date. Bomb day for me was June 11 2008. Since then I have exposed to...both families...OM gf....friends of ours..some of her work associates.
I almost went thru work and OM parent exposure letters in sept of this year.
My W lives at home still in spare room (her cave).
As far as consequences so far
All utilities and bills paid by me
W pays to live at home...I told her I would not support her during A/Divorce
She gave me some BS divorce papers on Oct 2...full custody for her CS...more money then we have etc

I actually filed on her 10 days later....same stuff but reverse....no crazy money though.

Her BS papers said she did not want the house...I do and can afford it without her.

Our kids know about the A. They go to counseling once a week together.

W and I were going to MC together...what a joke!

W has been going to IC and I go to the MC solo now

We interact ALMOST like a perfect family when together.

The A is still alive...it's a workplace A

I have heard all the fog babble...did the pleading, begging, suicide thoughts in the beginning.

Is it now too late for exposure to OM parents and to work higher ups?

Questions or comments appreciated.

Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 02:11 PM
Of course not! Not if they are still in the affair. But when you do, make sure you send certified letters to the Director of Human Resources, and cc a couple other big-wigs, so they all know everyone else knows. That way, it'll be illegal to sweep it under the rug (at least if you're in America).

I would also send a new round of letters to everyone previously notified: "I just wanted to make sure you're aware that WW is still carrying on her A with POS. She apparently believes that I should give her full custody and CS when we divorce, despite what she has done, so I am letting you know that I am going to fight this attempt and will be making the A public. If you have any advice, I would love to hear it."

Might be enough for some of them to give her some renewed (or new) heat.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 02:29 PM
No, its not too late for workplace and OM parents exposure, however, I doubt it will end the affair right away because the affair has become so entrenched. It will hasten its death for sure. It will be no fun to carry on the affair when everyone at work is watching.

Have you met with the OM face to face?

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W pays to live at home...I told her I would not support her during A/Divorce

BUT YOU ARE DOING EXACTLY THAT. Paying you rent like a boarder - WITH MARITAL INCOME - makes her believe she can ACT like a boarder and continue her affair. My suggestion would be to get her moved out legally. What is the status of your divorce?

This set up actually enables your wife's affair. She can live in the comfort and security of your home as a renter, saying she is "seperated"* and carry on her affair as if she is entitled.

*separated. to my astonishment, there are many ppl that believe moving into the spare bedroom and announcing they are "separated" means they are separated. crazy That is the craziest thing I have ever heard!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 02:31 PM
Exposure letter developed by BritsBrat, a corporate attorney, send the letter to Director of Human Resources, the affairees bosses and a key VP with cc's on every letter:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I actually filed on her 10 days later....same stuff but reverse....no crazy money though.

Are you in a fault state? Can you file on grounds of adultery?

What is the status of the D and can you get her moved out?

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Our kids know about the A. They go to counseling once a week together.

What have they been told and by WHOM? Have they been introduced to the affair?

Have you stayed in touch with the OM's GF and does she know the affair has continued?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 03:24 PM
Melody

iPhone does not do well with copy/paste so 1 at a time I can answer

OM
I have met him, I have shaken his hand, he has been to our home for a party, all pre bomb of course. My kids have met him as well but not as OM.

Divorce status

She has cried divorce 1000 times since bomb day. We did have a couple "work on things" weekends over the summer. She had an attorney draw up some papers that were all crap...gave them too me...told me if I fought her on custody she would make me out to be a child molester etc etc. I was calm...told her I needed to think about it...I know what I wanted to do but also what I needed to do. After some more verbal outbursts from her I finally filed on her on mental/verbal abuse/erreconsilable differences(sp?).
Originally Posted by Carp54
After some more verbal outbursts from her I finally filed on her on mental/verbal abuse/erreconsilable differences(sp?).

IMO you should have added "adultery" to the list of issues.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 03:33 PM
I am in Illinois which is a no fault state. I have mentioned the term "alienation of affection" to my W once....she was pretty scared!! I am still working on that part

Getting her out of the house

I have told her she can go but she will not...not without the kids.

What my kids know
For the longest time it was "I just don't love daddy anymore" or "I can't forgive him for some things". They know mommy has a BF but who or details they do not. My kids C has told me they are worried about losing mommys "love".

OM GF

She is pretty much a loss for me...she wanted concrete proof.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
OM
I have met him, I have shaken his hand, he has been to our home for a party, all pre bomb of course. My kids have met him as well but not as OM.

Have you had a come-to-Jesus with him about the affair? This is what I am suggesting. Meeting with him and asking him to end his affair with your wife. Ask him what his intentions are.

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Getting her out of the house

I have told her she can go but she will not...not without the kids.

Then what are you doing to get her out legally? Are you just planning on living in this triangle of enablement forever? What is the PLAN?


Quote
What my kids know
For the longest time it was "I just don't love daddy anymore" or "I can't forgive him for some things". They know mommy has a BF but who or details they do not. My kids C has told me they are worried about losing mommys "love".

So, they have been told LIES and are being led to believe that marriages break up over NOTHING. The truth has been WHITEWASHED in order to cover up for your wife. They need to be told the absolute TRUTH and given moral guidance. If you don't do this, they will grow up morally confused and will be vulnerable to your wife's lies when she teaches them wrong is right.
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Dr. Harley on telling the children:


The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.

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OM GF

She is pretty much a loss for me...she wanted concrete proof.

I would be getting her that PROOF and staying in touch with her.

I see lots of opportunities here that have not been exploited, Carp.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 03:46 PM
This is a segment that is sloppily and partially transcribed by me that was on the Dr Laura show. [anyone wants this MP3, email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com] I thought Dr. Laura made some EXCELLENT and profound points about the effects of lying to children about adultery. I don't always agree with her views on adultery, but she is right on in this aspect.

Dr. Harley, as many of you know, is a strong advocate of telling the children the TRUTH.

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am in Illinois which is a no fault state. I have mentioned the term "alienation of affection" to my W once....she was pretty scared!! I am still working on that part

Have you filed this suit yet? The OM needs to suffer massive CONFLICT for choosing to have an affair with your wife. He will not want the trouble, so your goal should be to cause him as much trouble as possible.

Expose to his parents, employer, GF, file suit on him. Contact him and meet with him face to face. [leave your pistol in the car]
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 03:59 PM
Confronting OM
I have not went up to him and had a "man to man". All info I have read up on says to not confront...it just makes me look weak. I am pursueing legal action against him though.

My W should be recieving my final papers this week. Kids with me, other stuff 50/50. My L has advised no CS from her rite now...we can go for it later but make the pot "sweet" rite now.

When I did file my W was furious! You can't take my kids...no judge will give you 2 girls blah blah blah...

My kids know about the A. Have I sat down and told them I filed because of it? No. My mantra to my kids has been....dad is doing what is best for our family...this will always be your home.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 04:15 PM
As for the mailing of the letters to Ws work
All mail goes past her desk/dept. Email may be the way to go there. All addresses are on the company website. Letter to OM parents can be mailed though.
Hand deliver the letter straight to Managment. You could go when wife is at lunch.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Confronting OM
I have not went up to him and had a "man to man". All info I have read up on says to not confront...it just makes me look weak. I am pursueing legal action against him though.

I would disagree with this advice - it makes you look WEAK to allow this man to have an affair with your wife with no consequences whatsoever. He will view that as fear on your part and will be emboldened - as you can see! He believes he is free to have an affair with your wife and you will do nothing to stop it.

OM are cowards who do not like facing the consequences of their actions. When faced with their victim, they tend to have second thoughts about victimizing him. Dr Harley recommends asking the OP: what are your intentions with my wife? It is not uncommon that the OP has been lied to about the state of the marriage so this gives you a chance to straighten that out.

Quote
My W should be recieving my final papers this week. Kids with me, other stuff 50/50. My L has advised no CS from her rite now...we can go for it later but make the pot "sweet" rite now.

50/50 with a wayward? Can your L not do any better than that? Such as giving you primary custody, keeping them in the home and giving her alternating weekends?

Quote
My kids know about the A. Have I sat down and told them I filed because of it? No. My mantra to my kids has been....dad is doing what is best for our family...this will always be your home.

They need to be told all about the affair and given moral guidance. Kids can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. If they are not told that adultery is immoral and WHY, they will believe it is just another lifestyle choice. SILENCE on this issue connotes your endorsment, let me assure you. They should not be left out in the cold to make up their own minds about such a critical issue.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
Hand deliver the letter straight to Managment. You could go when wife is at lunch.

Too many possible "roadblocks" with this plan.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 04:42 PM
Melody

50/50 only refers to our stuff!

I am going for custody of our kids...sorry if that was not more clear.

My W has mentioned "confronting" OM...I told her there are better ways then that.
She has commented that he is a sissy though...

OM GF had sent me a " please don't contact me anymore" email. Harassing her and stuff....she is a piece of work. I once emailer her some pics of OM I found at home...some were even pics of OM and GF!!! She said they didn't mean anything!! I told her if he says there is nothing between OM and my W....why does she have pics?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Melody

50/50 only refers to our stuff! I am going for custody of our kids...sorry if that was not more clear.

Great!

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My W has mentioned "confronting" OM...I told her there are better ways then that.

What did your W mention about it?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
Hand deliver the letter straight to Managment. You could go when wife is at lunch.

Too many possible "roadblocks" with this plan.


Carp, I would do it via email as you suggested then. Address it to the Director of HR and cc other key people on the email. They need to know that others see it so no one is tempted to deep six the message.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Melody

50/50 only refers to our stuff! I am going for custody of our kids...sorry if that was not more clear.

Great!

Quote
My W has mentioned "confronting" OM...I told her there are better ways then that.

What did your W mention about it?

He would be afraid of me physically. When I did bring up legal action she said he would fight it.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
He would be afraid of me physically. When I did bring up legal action she said he would fight it.

I suspect he is very afraid of you. I think a visit from you might have a great impact on him. As it is now, he believes he is free to have an affair with your wife and you will not object. I would disabuse him of that notion. If he knows you will fight for your marriage and will name him in an alienation of affection suit, he will have second thoughts.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
He would be afraid of me physically. When I did bring up legal action she said he would fight it.

I suspect he is very afraid of you. I think a visit from you might have a great impact on him. As it is now, he believes he is free to have an affair with your wife and you will not object. I would disabuse him of that notion. If he knows you will fight for your marriage and will name him in an alienation of affection suit, he will have second thoughts.

I agree 100%! My thinking is to bring someone with me, preferably a female so as to not be threatening. Also was considering recording the whole "event" either on camera or voice only.

FWIW
I am personally against divorce!! I grew up with it and it sucked!!
The years leading up to "bomb day" were not perfect. I have made the changes in myself that are necessary and were complaints of my W. I am not reconsidering exposure to be vindictive. Almost all interactions between my W and I that anyone would see over the last few months.....are probably better then most people that are not going thru this kinda mess. I understand the "fog" and rewriting of marital history and these kind of concepts. Currently I am detached enough from her at the moment where I think I can handle the "hell" that my next steps will bring.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I agree 100%! My thinking is to bring someone with me, preferably a female so as to not be threatening. Also was considering recording the whole "event" either on camera or voice only.

Good idea to record the event. Put a little recorder in your pocket. But the idea here is to be as threatening as possible. If you bring someone, bring a big burly bouncer or a TEXAN. Leave your pistol in the car, though.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I agree 100%! My thinking is to bring someone with me, preferably a female so as to not be threatening. Also was considering recording the whole "event" either on camera or voice only.

Good idea to record the event. Put a little recorder in your pocket. But the idea here is to be as threatening as possible. If you bring someone, bring a big burly bouncer or a TEXAN. Leave your pistol in the car, though.

Do you think I should be that threatening?
Couldn't that be used against me legally? "he went over there with the intent of violence" That was why I was thinking of bringing a female.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Do you think I should be that threatening?
Couldn't that be used against me legally? "he went over there with the intent of violence" That was why I was thinking of bringing a female.

Thats ridiculous. Bring a man and scare the hell out of him with your quiet and firm presence. Don't raise your voice, don't make any violent threats. Just tell him how it is and how it will be.

What is he going to do? Call the police and tell them the husband of the married woman he is having an affair with had a discussion with him?
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 05:58 PM
I just wanted to make sure you understand the purpose of exposing, in case it comes up. It is, as you say, not to punish, but to STOP the affair, so you can have your W back. You'll never get her back unless she breaks contact with him. Thus the exposure, so everyone else will get on to them about it and hopefully shame or harass them into quitting it. Affairs are no fun when everyone's disappointed in you and makes your life miserable.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
I just wanted to make sure you understand the purpose of exposing, in case it comes up. It is, as you say, not to punish, but to STOP the affair, so you can have your W back. You'll never get her back unless she breaks contact with him. Thus the exposure, so everyone else will get on to them about it and hopefully shame or harass them into quitting it. Affairs are no fun when everyone's disappointed in you and makes your life miserable.

I understand this 100%!!

I have told my W I forgive her for the A....but take no responsibility for her DOING it. I know what parts I am responsible for our M leading up to it. I have a 6 page letter she wrote about a month after bomb day....it used to make me cry when I read it...I even let our MC read it. She "tried" for about 5 days after that letter...the pull was to strong. She claimed I smothered her the whole time....I did but did not know what to do. I still get little "pieces" of my W....those pieces...and our kids...and my detachment....make me think this is the correct next step.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/16/08 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Do you think I should be that threatening?
Couldn't that be used against me legally? "he went over there with the intent of violence" That was why I was thinking of bringing a female.

Thats ridiculous. Bring a man and scare the hell out of him with your quiet and firm presence. Don't raise your voice, don't make any violent threats. Just tell him how it is and how it will be.

What is he going to do? Call the police and tell them the husband of the married woman he is having an affair with had a discussion with him?

I like this Melody. I did not see it this way myself.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:33 AM
Things around our house are so normal....it makes ya wonder. We cook together...eat as a family.....do each others laundry...talk a about our days....regular "family" stuff....except for the 500lb gorilla in the room!!

Xmas
Ws family is coming to our house for Xmas. I will continue on as I am being a good spouse/dad/inlaw. After Xmas is when I will expose.

1. Go to OMs house. Trying to find the words....will do some thinking

2. Employer/OM letters. I have copies of both....I will post them up for approval/changes.

3. Family letters. These I have copies of as well....same as above when I get time.

I sent my wife an email before I filed. I will post it up as well. I am wondering if I should send her another before exposure.....not a warning letter but a "this is your last shot" kinda letter.
Originally Posted by Carp54
As for the mailing of the letters to Ws work
All mail goes past her desk/dept. Email may be the way to go there. All addresses are on the company website. Letter to OM parents can be mailed though.

Send it Certified Mail with the "addressee only" box checked on the green card that is your receipt.

Charlotte
Posted By: AEN Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 01:32 PM
Carp 54 asked me to post this for him...

His proposed letter is this:

Dear Mr 3 different Partners.

You and I have met on several occasions. During the last 2 christmas parties and when I would stop by the office to say hi to my wife Jennefer.

There is something I want to share with you. There is an inappropriate relationship going on between two of your employees. My wife, Jennefer and OM are involved in an affair at your location.

I have been informed that this relationship has been active since july of 2007.

Since you are a business owner, and a person I have met and are a good person, I knew you would want to know this and address this matter appropriately.

In the office I work in employee fraternization is frowned upon, and the cosequences can be severe. I can only request a transfer to your other location, or more serious actions for him, as you see fit. I know that my wife does share some blame here, but his pursuit of a married woman who is a mother of 2 daughters, while on your premises, and on your timeclock, I would personally find dispicable.

This is obviously a very personal matter for me, as I am sure it would be for you, and both my wifes and my family request your help in bringing these activities to an end on your premises.

I have been to companies that have a very strict "no cellphone" policy inside the building as the constant calls and texts lead to lost productivity.

Thank you for your time in addressing this situation. I am available by phone or email if you wish to discuss this further

Name
Home#
Cell#


Carp54 wants also asked:


How do I get the timing of all the letters right?

1 letter to wife...let her stew

2 letters to parents\employers

Parent letter will be mailed. His last name is quite unique so I may mail to everyone of them!

Boss letter will be email. They are all posted on company website. I dont know if they have secretaries who check that stuff for them. How should I title the letter as in the subject line?

Thx
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 01:35 PM
Thx Alexn!!
Alexn and I are kinda "neighbors".
Posted By: AEN Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 01:35 PM
Also, Carp 54 got this advice elsewhere:

Do NOT send the letter to OM's parents unless you can confirm it is the right one. Call first, ask if they have a son named thus-and-such who works at thus-and-such, and if it's the wrong one, just say "I'm sorry, I must have the wrong number," and if you hit upon the right one, say "thank you; we're just updating our records," and hang up. And then mail the letter.

DO ALL OF THEM SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is so the illicit couple can't "spin" the affair, or do damage control to other likely exposees once they see the first bomb drop. I was told this REPEATEDLY, and I DIDN'T do it (did mine sequentially, several days to even weeks apart, because I wanted to give my wife every chance to turn back... Think "Hiroshima and Nagasaki"), and I regret not doing them simultaneously.

You want "shock and awe." Besides, if she's going to go [censored] on you (and make NO mistake -- SHE WILL), why not get it all over with at once???
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 02:06 PM
It's pretty good. You don't really need family stuff in there in the work-related letters. What you DO need, though, if appropriate where you live, is a mention that their company may be liable for legal proceedings. It may be something as inocuous as bringing up the company name in a public lawsuit; it may be more, I don't know law. But I DO know that companies are generally more afraid when they are threatened with legal issues than moral ones. The only reason companies hold all that stupid sexual harassment training is that it protects them legally, should anything happen between employees and one sue the other.

I would also add that you will be contacting them within the week to find out their official answer on what they plan to do about it. cc your lawyer, if you have one, so they know you're keeping legal track. If you don't have one, cc your own name so they can see you're sending a copy to yourself. Not terribly threatening legally speaking, but they'll get the message that you're covering all your bases.

And yes, all at once! Within one hour, if you can swing it. Do NOT give her or him ANY time to call someone before you do, to spin their version ('my H is insane, he's depressed, he's bipolar, etc.). Plan well, have it all right in front of you, have all the letters written but not emailed, and just keep hitting send.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I sent my wife an email before I filed. I will post it up as well. I am wondering if I should send her another before exposure.....not a warning letter but a "this is your last shot" kinda letter.

NO! Don't do that! She will then pre-empt you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by AlexEN
Carp 54 asked me to post this for him...

His proposed letter is this:

Dear Mr 3 different Partners.

You and I have met on several occasions. During the last 2 christmas parties and when I would stop by the office to say hi to my wife Jennefer.

There is something I want to share with you. There is an inappropriate relationship adulterous affair going on between two of your employees. My wife, Jennefer and OM are involved in an affair at your location.

I have been informed that this relationship affair has been active since july of 2007.

Since you are a business owner, and a person I have met and are a good person, I knew you would want to know this and address this matter appropriately.

In the office I work in employee fraternization, especially adultery, is frowned upon, and the cosequences can be severe. I can only request a transfer to your other location, or more serious actions for him, as you see fit. I know that my wife does share some blame here, but his pursuit of a married woman who is a mother of 2 daughters, while on your premises, and on your timeclock, I would personally find dispicable.

This is obviously a very personal matter for me, as I am sure it would be for you, and both my wifes and my family request your help in bringing these activities to an end on your premises.

I have been to companies that have a very strict "no cellphone" policy inside the building as the constant calls and texts lead to lost productivity.

Thank you for your time in addressing this situation. I am available by phone or email if you wish to discuss this further

Name
Home#
Cell#

Howdy Alex! Please take out the word "relationship" above and add the words I prescribed. This is no time to mince words. Call it what it is. A "relationship" is what you have with your momma, this is an ADULTEROUS AFFAIR.

Quote
Carp54 wants also asked:


How do I get the timing of all the letters right?

1 letter to wife...let her stew

I wouldn't send her a letter

Quote
2 letters to parents\employers

Parent letter will be mailed. His last name is quite unique so I may mail to everyone of them!

Send the letters to the relatives today.

Quote
Boss letter will be email. They are all posted on company website. I dont know if they have secretaries who check that stuff for them. How should I title the letter as in the subject line?

Thx

"Urgent matter with my wife at your company" That would get my attention!

Have your wife's parents been told?

Have the children been informed?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 02:38 PM
Cc myself
Cc my lawyer too..why not!

I am gonna do all letters/emails same day

I am gonna confront OM at his condo after work the night before...let him stew a bit.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 02:43 PM
Melody

Alex just forwarded info for me. iPhone has no copy paste!
He will have OM parents letter up later.

Her parents were exposed earlier this year verbally by me. I will send her whole family letters same day as others.

As stated before my kids do know of the A...they don't know anything else...trying to find the correct wording.

I want to wait till after Xmas because Ws family will be at our house....I want their last interaction to be good with me before letters and stuff happen.
Posted By: AEN Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 03:21 PM
Here is Carp's family letter:

It's extremely painful for me to have to tell you this, but it is out of respect for you, and concern for Jennefer, that I asked to talk to you today.

Jennefer is having an affair. It's been going on since _________ . I've struggled with whether or not I should tell you, but the other things I've been trying to get her to end it are not working, and regardless of what happens with our marriage, I'm genuinely concerned for her because this man is a predator. And while I do take responsibility for the issues in our marriage, this, I cannot allow, and I cannot begin to work on CORRECTING those issues as long as there is a third person in the marriage. I've come here today to ask for your support of my marriage, and my family, and to exert whatever influence you feel you can to get Jennefer to end her affair and joing me in some good pro-marriage marriage counseling, and work on repairing our marriage. I'm committed 100% to this, but it cannot work as long as her head is filled with all kinds of endorphines and the rush of an affair, and nor can I allow my family to be disrespected this way anyway.

I am taking a very firm stand on this, and some of my methods may even seem harsh. Please know that I love (your sister/your daughter/whatever) very much, I have forgiven her (and told her so) and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to work on our issues. It's not my intent to shame or embarrass her, but nor will I lie anymore to help her hide her affair.

-Carp



Comments?

Thx
Originally Posted by AlexEN
And while I do take responsibility for the issues in our marriage, this, I cannot allow, and I cannot begin to work on CORRECTING those issues as long as there is a third person in the marriage.

Re-word that: there are lots of things he can do to correct the issues that caused problems in the M (like LB'ing), even while the A is still going on. However, the M cannot be RECOVERED unless the A is ended.

e.g. "And while I do take responsibility for some of the issues in our marriage, issues that I'm taking steps to correct, our marriage cannot be recovered and improved and be fulfilling to both of us as long as there is a third person involved."

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Cc myself
Cc my lawyer too..why not!

I am gonna do all letters/emails same day

I am gonna confront OM at his condo after work the night before...let him stew a bit.

Carp, whatever you do, don't FOREWARN HIM about your exposure. If you do, he will get to these ppl first and spin the story. He will tell them you are a jealous nutjob who believes everyone is having an affair with his wife. Don't warn him!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by AlexEN
And while I do take responsibility for the issues in our marriage, this, I cannot allow, and I cannot begin to work on CORRECTING those issues as long as there is a third person in the marriage.

Re-word that: there are lots of things he can do to correct the issues that caused problems in the M (like LB'ing), even while the A is still going on. However, the M cannot be RECOVERED unless the A is ended.

e.g. "And while I do take responsibility for some of the issues in our marriage, issues that I'm taking steps to correct, our marriage cannot be recovered and improved and be fulfilling to both of us as long as there is a third person involved."

I like this Melody!! I AM working/succeeding with myself!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Cc myself
Cc my lawyer too..why not!

I am gonna do all letters/emails same day

I am gonna confront OM at his condo after work the night before...let him stew a bit.

Carp, whatever you do, don't FOREWARN HIM about your exposure. If you do, he will get to these ppl first and spin the story. He will tell them you are a jealous nutjob who believes everyone is having an affair with his wife. Don't warn him!

His GF told me he said this when I contacted her before!

When I confront him it will only be about him...what he has done....some facts I do know...not too many though and no "proof"....stay away from my wife....and how easy this will be legally against him for me if he continues!!
Your letter to your WW's employer is too soft and too personal. Businesses often take the view that what employees do no their own time is none of the employer's business. I have received many letters like these from employee's spouses. While I may feel differently about how they should be handled, my company has made the decision that we will only investigate if there is something that directly affects our business or our Code of Conduct. You need to make this letter about how it is affecting HIS business, not you personally. The letter that Melodylane posted earlier (thanks for the credit Mel!) gets the key pieces of information across - those that directly affect the employer's business. I would strongly urge you to send the one I drafted and Mel posted - no more, no less.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Brit\'s Brat
Your letter to your WW's employer is too soft and too personal. Businesses often take the view that what employees do no their own time is none of the employer's business. I have received many letters like these from employee's spouses. While I may feel differently about how they should be handled, my company has made the decision that we will only investigate if there is something that directly affects our business or our Code of Conduct. You need to make this letter about how it is affecting HIS business, not you personally. The letter that Melodylane posted earlier (thanks for the credit Mel!) gets the key pieces of information across - those that directly affect the employer's business. I would strongly urge you to send the one I drafted and Mel posted - no more, no less.


Point well taken! That's why I plan first....get advise...then proceed!

I am just putting out there what I have done/written so far. Almost all the letters Alexn is putting up have NOT been sent....the only one is a letter I sent my wife the day I filed. This letter should be up soon.
Posted By: AEN Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 03:56 PM
Carp's letter to his wife:

Jennefer,

I have told you recently that I would only react to your actions, now it is clear to me what my reaction should be

When this terrible mess first started I told you this fact.....I have never told anyone I loved them.....and no one has told me those words. This fact still remains true. I told you this simple fact hurts me the most. During these last months I have learned a lot about myself...I believe you have noticed it as well. I have learned forgiveness....and all the freeing power that comes with it....I have learned patience....and how very important it is....I have learned how to love unconditionally.....and no matter how much it hurts it makes me feel good every time I experience it. I have searched deep into myself to find the things that may have not been right.....fixed them...and moved on. I am happy.

I told you recently in an email that I have not stopped caring about us or our family. I need some time to decide what I feel is the next step in doing what is right for us and our family. I feel that time is upon us.

I am about to take our family on a win/win journey, and I pray that you will join me. The first journey will require hard work, love, pain, tears, compassion and forgiveness from and for everyone in both our families. The journey will not be easy...there will be many pitfalls, harsh words, doubt and many questions of "is this all worth it?". The answer is yes. It IS all worth it and will make our family stronger than ever.

The second journey will be the same....but the end will have one less person in our home. The choice is entirely up to you. I DO love you, but my patience is about up, and I am afraid of losing what's left of my love for you. Please let me know what you'd like to do.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:10 PM
CArp, thats a nice letter, but what are you saying? What is your goal? What is the bottom line?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
CArp, thats a nice letter, but what are you saying? What is your goal? What is the bottom line?

Bottom line??

My W and I have both agreed....in the past right after bomb day..... we succeeded at 70% of what a "good" marriage is. Even today we still are probably at 50-60% even with all this chit going on. Like I said previously....if you were a fly on our wall you would probably not guess there is anything wrong! I am sick of being "almost" a family! I want my whole family back....

After bomb day she wrote me a 6 page letter about "us" and "love" and "trust" and how what she did was wrong and hurt our family etc....I shared it with our MC...."wow" was her comment. My W has commented that OM talks like a politician....but she can't get away. I know I am not perfect...she is not perfect....my kids having every rite for a fighting chance at a "whole" family.

I don't want to recount the last 6 months. I know that my "regular" W is in there somewhere...I see her sometimes...I want to see her ALL the time!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:32 PM
ok, then why can't you talk straight? She is a fogged out WS and I am a TEXAN, we need STRAIGHT TALK with a bottom line.

I don't get the POINT of your letter. I don't understand flowery words unless there is a point.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ok, then why can't you talk straight? She is a fogged out WS and I am a TEXAN, we need STRAIGHT TALK with a bottom line.

I don't get the POINT of your letter. I don't understand flowery words unless there is a point.


I sent that letter the day I filed for D on my W. It says....I have changed....you said you can see my changes....come back to your family....or get out!
She never replied to it. The only info I ever got about it was from a friend....why can't he quit trying and just give me what I want!
I also jus wanted to share these letters incase anyone wanted to use them as a template.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Even today we still are probably at 50-60% even with all this chit going on. Like I said previously....if you were a fly on our wall you would probably not guess there is anything wrong!

Window dressing does not a good marriage make, Carp. This affair will destroy your marriage because it is a poison that is spreading through your family. So, the window display might look nice from the front, but there is a robber in the store who is stealing you blind. He will put you out of business if you don't stop him. The niceness of your display cases does not reflect the true state of business inside.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ok, then why can't you talk straight? She is a fogged out WS and I am a TEXAN, we need STRAIGHT TALK with a bottom line.

I don't get the POINT of your letter. I don't understand flowery words unless there is a point.


I sent that letter the day I filed for D on my W. It says....I have changed....you said you can see my changes....come back to your family....or get out!
She never replied to it. The only info I ever got about it was from a friend....why can't he quit trying and just give me what I want!
I also jus wanted to share these letters incase anyone wanted to use them as a template.

I gotcha! Thanks for posting it. I have to admit, though, being from Texas, I didn't understand it at all. We just say things straight here.
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:54 PM
In response to the original post:

H_ll no. Drop the bomb on that scumbag's superiors, his parents....have flyers printed up and distribute them to his neighbors, his fellow churchgoers, his co-workers, etc.

Not only will it make the A more difficult to conduct, but it is just about the only legal/semi-legal way you can strike back at OM.

One of the few things I can take comfort in is that I called OM's wife, and his boss. I made his life as much a mess as mine is.

Exposure can be theraputic for a BS. Do it.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Krazy71
In response to the original post:

H_ll no. Drop the bomb on that scumbag's superiors, his parents....have flyers printed up and distribute them to his neighbors, his fellow churchgoers, his co-workers, etc.

Not only will it make the A more difficult to conduct, but it is just about the only legal/semi-legal way you can strike back at OM.

One of the few things I can take comfort in is that I called OM's wife, and his boss. I made his life as much a mess as mine is.

Exposure can be theraputic for a BS. Do it.

Definitely going to....just want the best laid plan.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 07:06 PM
Just found some mail traffic from OM GF and my W. Mail was from GF thanking my W for clarifying some numbers....odd.

When I reexpose to family/OM family/OMGF should I note the last time I know OM and W were together??
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 07:48 PM
No, that just gives them facts to play with. Just say you know they are still ongoing in the A. Not your job to provide proof.
Posted By: AEN Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 08:51 PM
Carp's letter to OM's parents:


Dear Mr & Mrs. OM parents

The love my family has for Jennefer allows me to write this letter. Your son and my wife, Jennefer, a mother of 2 daughters, have been engaged in an emotional and physical affair for over a year now. My wife has cried to me, yelled at me, told me how sorry she was, apologized for the disease she has contracted from this, but she cannot pull herself away . Her whole family knows of this yet she tells them all to "but out".


I have found it in my heart to forgive her and help her thru this tough time to make our family whole again....this process cannot start until all contact ends between them.


I mean no disrespect in asking you this, as 1 parent to another, to ask, no tell your son to end contact with my wife. My wife is not without fault here and I am dealing with her as her husband and a friend. I only ask you do the same with him.


I have welcomed your son into our home for a Halloween party in 2007 as a friend....while the two of them were destroying our family.

I have stood next to him and congratulated him at company softball games...with my kids by my side....while this went on.

There are so many more details to share...but I cannot.

My wife now stands on the edge of divorce..she is prepared to walk away from her home, children, and husband...by her own hand....because the relationship is clouding her judgment.

Please confront your son...like I have my wife, with love and compassion about this pain it is causing in my family

Pray for my family to come through this stronger. I will pray that the same happens for yours.
End letter

If you wish to contact me in regards to this matter my personal info is attached. Please at least acknowledge that you did receive and read this.
My name

Email
Cell
Home
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 10:33 PM
CArp, WHAT DISEASE??? Did he give her an STD???

Your letter is very good, but there is alot of superfluous emotion in it which detracts from the mission of an exposure letter. We want the target to be focused on the FACTS, rather than your emotions. If you could tighten this up a bit, I think it will have more PUNCH:

Dear Mr & Mrs. SB parents

Your son and my wife, Jennefer, a mother of our 2 daughters, have been engaged in an adulterous affair for over a year now. My wife has contracted an STD from this. Our young daughters and my wife's family are heartbroken over the damage this affair has caused to this family.

WE are discussing divorce at this point but are still together. My children and I are very worried that our family will be broken up over this affair with your son.

My goal is to save our marriage and protect my childrens family. It is because of this that I ask respectfully that you speak to your son and persuade him to stop his affair with my wife.

There is no future for him with my wife because he will be eternally hated by my children and my wife's family for breaking up our marriage.

Please confront your son...like I have my wife, with love and compassion about this pain it is causing in my family and ask him to end his attack on my family.

Pray for my family to come through this stronger. I will pray that the same happens for yours.
End letter

If you wish to contact me in regards to this matter my personal info is attached. Please at least acknowledge that you did receive and read this.
My name

Email
Cell
Home

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by CARP
Please confront your son...like I have my wife, with love and compassion about this pain it is causing in my family

HOLY CRAP, CARP!! This is TOO DEEP! If I found my son was conducting himself in such a trashy, sleazy manner, it would not be COMPASSION he deserved! But the right end of my HORSE WHIP! Compassion, my hind end!

You need to lighten up on the PC stuff, my friend! crazy
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 10:51 PM
My first draft had the word "poison" in it about 20 times!!

My W was diagnosed with hpv this summer....she has a small growth of pre cancerous cells in her cervix.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
My first draft had the word "poison" in it about 20 times!!

My W was diagnosed with hpv this summer....she has a small growth of pre cancerous cells in her cervix.

ugh on the disease part! That is a RESULT of STDs!

Well, please send my version, will ya? This occasion calls for straightforward verbiage so there is no misunderstanding. You don't want them wasting time trying to figure out what you are saying. If they are Texans, they will never get it! grin
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
My first draft had the word "poison" in it about 20 times!!

My W was diagnosed with hpv this summer....she has a small growth of pre cancerous cells in her cervix.

ugh on the disease part! That is a RESULT of STDs!

Well, please send my version, will ya? This occasion calls for straightforward verbiage so there is no misunderstanding. You don't want them wasting time trying to figure out what you are saying. If they are Texans, they will never get it! grin

Your draft to OM parents

Brits employer letter

Family letter look ok?

Gotta figure out what to say to OM

What about clueless GF/possible exGF?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Brits employer letter

Just so you know, BB is a corporate attorney who deals with these issues every day. She KNOWS what works so I appreciate that you followed her template.

Quote
Gotta figure out what to say to OM

"What are your intentions with my wife?" See what he says Then tell him that you and your wife are very much still married and that you will fight for your marriage. You will also be taking legal action against him in an alienation of affection lawsuit, so he had better lawyer up, BUCKO. Tell him that there is no future with your wife because he will be ETERNALLY HATED BY HER CHILDREN FOR DESTROYING THEIR FAMILY. His name is MUD in the in-law pool and he will never be accepted there.

Do not pistol whip him!

Quote
What about clueless GF/possible exGF?

Give her all the information you have about the affair to prove to her it is ongoing. Tell her that your wife openly admits and talks of her affair at home. Tell her she is being conned.

Ok, can we tighten up this family letter so readers are not distracted by your emotions? You are a good writer, but too fancy for folks like me. In sales we learn that if you don't catch your audiences attention in the first couple of sentences, you are likely to lose them.:

Dear Family,

I am writing you to ask for your support in saving my marriage. Our marriage and my daughters family is being threatened by Jennefer's adulterous affair with ScumBag Jones, her 21 year old co-worker. This affair has been ongoing for a year now with no end in sight. I have done every thing in my power to get her to end her affair to no avail.

While I do take responsibility for many of the issues in our marriage, our marriage cannot be repaired as long as there is a third person in the marriage. Not only does this affair threaten our marriage, but it is teaching our daughters that wrong is right, that adultery is an acceptable lifestyle choice. They are being taught that any behavior, no matter how bad, is acceptable as long as it makes one "happy."

I've come here today to ask for your support of my marriage, and my family, and to ask you to exert whatever influence you can to get Jennefer to end her affair and join me in marriage counseling, and work on repairing our marriage. I am asking for your advice in saving my marriage and DD's family.

Please know that I love Jennefer very much and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to fix our marriage. It's not my intent to shame or embarrass her, but to gain the help of our family.

-Carp

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/17/08 11:49 PM
That's why they are "drafts"!!
It's hard to write with no emotion about your own sitch.

Brits letter
W and OM use personal phones to text at work. That shouldn't make any difference?

OMGF
She is gonna ask for something...her letter will have to have a few facts.

Gonna have to call Ws work to find out big bosses holiday sheduele! Totally forgot about that!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
OMGF
She is gonna ask for something...her letter will have to have a few facts.

Why not call her, Carp? She may ask questions and you could answer them.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
OMGF
She is gonna ask for something...her letter will have to have a few facts.

Why not call her, Carp? She may ask questions and you could answer them.

This is probably the best case for her. Gonna have to call her from a different phone though....she buries her head so deep....
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 07:31 PM
Strange thing just happened....sheriffs police just called me...OMGF called them to ask me to not contact her! I told them the story..told them I had not contacted her since her last request. I am gonna call them back for a copy of the report....sound good?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 07:47 PM
Just hung up with police. I am going to get the police report. I described to the officer what this was about....asked him if the report had anything good in it or if I shouldn't waste my time....he paused and said I should come and get it!!


Will update later.
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 08:56 PM
Looks like OM is putting pressure on OMGF to do something about you. He must be a pretty good manipulator, if she's willing to do this so her BF can make it with another man's wife right under her nose.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Looks like OM is putting pressure on OMGF to do something about you. He must be a pretty good manipulator, if she's willing to do this so her BF can make it with another man's wife right under her nose.

Enroute to PD rite now.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 09:55 PM
PD won't give me a copy of report. Something about privacy laws and because I am named as the "bad guy". Called the officer back...he was gone for the day. My guess is because it is still a open case I cannot get the info under the freedom of information act. Will call officer back tommorow.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 10:09 PM
What in the world would prompt her to do that all of a sudden? Does your W have your computer tapped? Is she reading here?

In the meantime, I would get those exposure letters out NOW because I suspect they are onto you and your W and her BF are working hard to pre-empt you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 10:09 PM
Do you have some hard proof that can be given to the OMGF? If you do, another person could get it to her.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What in the world would prompt her to do that all of a sudden? Does your W have your computer tapped? Is she reading here?

In the meantime, I would get those exposure letters out NOW because I suspect they are onto you and your W and her BF are working hard to pre-empt you.

My PC is only tapped by me!! I have never posted 1 single thing on my PC ever...all handheld.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Do you have some hard proof that can be given to the OMGF? If you do, another person could get it to her.

I have emailed her pics of BOTH of them I found at home...it was not enough for her

I have a letter from my W to me that talks about the A but I can't remember if she wrote his name.

She is a waste as far as I am concerned. Always has been
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What in the world would prompt her to do that all of a sudden?
I'll stand by my guess. OM is pressuring her somehow, and she's trying to appease him by getting you off their backs. It would go along with her wishing to not believe anything - she probably does whatever he wants just so he won't leave her. Typical manipulative OM.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What in the world would prompt her to do that all of a sudden?
I'll stand by my guess. OM is pressuring her somehow, and she's trying to appease him by getting you off their backs. It would go along with her wishing to not believe anything - she probably does whatever he wants just so he won't leave her. Typical manipulative OM.

My gut tells me this...but partially pressure from her too him as well. She has NEVER wanted to believe any of this is happening. Her myspace profile went from depressed...when they supposedly broke up...to hopeful last week sometime. My W had commented to a friend last week that "Tuesdays suck"....probably the day my W became the OW again...LOL.
I suspect that OMGF is aware that this is an A, but she is hoping it will all go away.
I am sure that OM is telling her that you are just a lunatic, and he is "counseling" your W. But at the end of the day, the GF knows that he is not loyal to her. She is just hoping to finally "win him".

That poor girl is desperately trying to salvage her R with a cheating dog.

Pray for her! That she would finally see the truth, and have the courage to step away from this harmful r she is in.

I have a lot of hope for your M. This little weasle is going to dump your W soon - she is just too much work. After all, if he truly thought your W was his "soul mate" he would just dump the GF. Why hang onto the GF if he plans to be with your W forever?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/18/08 11:27 PM
Couple things I do know about OMGF

She met him while cheating on his GF at the time
She had people tell her he is no good
She is a ditz

My W told me GF has every quality OM wants in a woman
Young
College educated
Etc
His perfect woman

GF did tell me he said I was jealous/lunatic etc
He told her to never talk to me

W told me she ACCEPTED his 50% love over my 100%(fog babble probably)
W would only be a side thing..but she could accept that too

He's a snake/politician/POS
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/19/08 03:27 PM
Snow day for us constuction guys here in Illinois. Sitting at my desk in the "man suite" as I now refer to it as. I have a completely seperate OS on a seperate HD (dont worry Melody) that I am editting letters with and emailing them to myself.

Its been so long since I typed at a "real" PC......I forget how!

Will post up edited letters and other thoughts/questions later.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/19/08 05:10 PM
No point in reposting letters and stuff

I have all necessary work email addresses
Chatted with W about hoilday schedule at her work...most of the bosses will be in. Should I wait until all boses will be in? I have a family member who is gonna call there over the next couple days to "ask" if Mr Smith will be in between xmas and new years to come in and see him....if not when will he be back?

I have all addresses saved for the mailing of the family letter. Should I put a date in the letter as to when I know of their last contact?
I have her IC info as well...should I mail one to him? I really get the feeling she is lying to him!

OM family name is real unusual.....should I invest energy to find his parents only? I found his brother on FB...should I send it to all names like his?

Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/19/08 07:16 PM
I would do it all today or Monday if you can. Having it blow up in their faces before Christmas will make it more potent.

When you go to the company, make sure you cc all the other bigwigs, so they know everyone else knows. That way, they can't sweep it under the rug, or they'll get canned for ignoring it.

Send it to IC. I'd do a little more checking about the other people with the last name though. But do send it to his brother. Definitely find his parents.

Don't use the date of last contact - too much info. Just say that it is ongoing.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/19/08 07:22 PM
double ditto on finding the parents! Exposure to his parents will be a warning shot across the bow!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/19/08 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
I would do it all today or Monday if you can. Having it blow up in their faces before Christmas will make it more potent.

When you go to the company, make sure you cc all the other bigwigs, so they know everyone else knows. That way, they can't sweep it under the rug, or they'll get canned for ignoring it.

Send it to IC. I'd do a little more checking about the other people with the last name though. But do send it to his brother. Definitely find his parents.

Don't use the date of last contact - too much info. Just say that it is ongoing.


Monday is too soon...her company is an ABC and associates...B and C are gone. "Thug" friend is not fully briefed.
Leave out the date of last contact...got it.

I have a hunch about the parents...I will call to verify. I will use the "are you the parents of OM who works at ABC...thank you...we are updating our records" speech.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/19/08 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I have a hunch about the parents...I will call to verify. I will use the "are you the parents of OM who works at ABC...thank you...we are updating our records" speech.

Carp, if that is the case, then you might as well just tell them on the phone while you have them! That way they can hear your voice and answer any questions.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/19/08 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I have a hunch about the parents...I will call to verify. I will use the "are you the parents of OM who works at ABC...thank you...we are updating our records" speech.

Carp, if that is the case, then you might as well just tell them on the phone while you have them! That way they can hear your voice and answer any questions.

Melody....I don't want to start "story time" and possibly lose the Texans!! LOL.
The letter has the facts....if they want more THEY can call me.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/21/08 10:00 PM
Couple thoughts and a little journaling.
1. Been reading alot of threads about exposure and the aftermath. I may be in a better spot then most because I filed first and for custody. Since I did file she cannot take the kids anywhere without consent. This might be a good thing to do BEFORE the stick part of plan A!! Thoughts??

2. I see alot of spouses who still react with alot of emotion....I am mostly past that point. It almost seems like that's where a spouse should be BEFORE the stick part again. Thoughts??


Little snooping verifies contact between W and OM...I never say a word.

Friday night was nice in our house...stuffed pizza and some TV watching as a family. D9 slept with W....no contact with OM while she was laying in bed....I hope.

Saturday morning W and I went out for breakfast and the shopping for Xmas dinner food. After this I had counseling with our MC....told W MC wanted to chat with her abit. We talked about the last couple weeks and the calm in our house as well as Xmas and stuff. MC chatted with W for about 15mins...then it was my turn. MC said W seemed "determined" that what she was doing was rite and that W doesn't "love" me anymore. I told of course she can't love me.....she thinks she is in love with OM!! I told her that A is still on going and told her of some events from recent weeks. I discussed my "exposure" plan with MC and where the idea came from. She had a kind of puzzled but interested look on her face. We went over the letters and stuff....she said they sounded good. She recommended not saying any more about the A to the kids....parental alienation was her concern on the legal front.

I shared my plan with another pro exposure friend....he thinks confronting OM might make me look weak and elevate OMs importance. He is also worried about me keeping my cool. The fact that another party would be present and the camera was a good idea. He thought all the other steps were spot on!! He went thru a similar sitch about a year ago.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/21/08 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I shared my plan with another pro exposure friend....he thinks confronting OM might make me look weak and elevate OMs importance. He is also worried about me keeping my cool. The fact that another party would be present and the camera was a good idea. He thought all the other steps were spot on!! He went thru a similar sitch about a year ago.

When do you plan on meeting up with the OM? I don't understand what your friend means about "looking weak" because if you WERE weak, you would be afraid to face him. His fear makes no sense.

What is your timing on the exposures?

And about the kids, we have never had a parent who got into legal trouble for telling their kids the truth and giving them MORAL GUIDANCE. No matter what a court says, you still have a parental RESPONSIBILITY to tell your children the truth. You are not absolved of your parental duties just because you fear legal hypotheticals. You have to keep in mind here that Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist with 35 yrs experience at this. He is a little more qualified than your MC, I would guess.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/21/08 10:26 PM
Just voicing other opinions Mel. I want to confront OM....gives me a warm feeling inside thinking about it!!!

This morning me, W and D9 spent about an hour chatting away and drinking coffee (not D9). W sat on the floor in my bedroom while I laid in bed.

FYI
Whenever we interact lately I look good...smell good...i am confident when is speak, polite, funny, warm and listen well when W is talking. I am the picture of good husband...I have been acting this way for a couple weeks. W has even commented about the "new" me over the last couple months. Hell...I even make my bed everyday!!

Does this seem proper actions leading up to the "stick"?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/21/08 10:29 PM
First thing monday morning I am gonna call Ws work to find out big bosses work schedule for the holiday week. Once I get a confirmation on all 3 being in on a certain day/days confrontation with OM will be the day before. Letters/emails will be timed for the next morning.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/21/08 10:47 PM
Awesome! smile
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/21/08 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Awesome! smile

Your 1 word "Texas style" answer.....leaves me hangin! smile
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 02:04 PM
Had a chat with the friend who I wanted to take to OMs house. He wants no part of it. His main concern is that these actions will make me look crazy/unfit to parent my kids in the eyes of the legal system. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I should consult my attorney before proceeding with exposure?!
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 02:13 PM
I can't really say about confronting OM legal-wise, but I can't imagine how you talking to him can't have a beneficial effect on stopping the A. He's a predator, and a weak person; you're likely to scare the crapola out of him; most people simply don't confront others any more.

Have you found any other things to do to make the A more nasty and smelly and embarrassing? Ways to make it public? Church, friends, holiday get-togethers? You need to keep pushing this, proving that you won't stand for it - that she may not choose you, but you'll be sure she doesn't choose him, either.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Had a chat with the friend who I wanted to take to OMs house. He wants no part of it. His main concern is that these actions will make me look crazy/unfit to parent my kids in the eyes of the legal system. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I should consult my attorney before proceeding with exposure?!

Why not just go alone? I don't think there is any risk of you hitting him, do you? You don't need to consult an attorney to go have a talk with a man. Let's get real here.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
He wants no part of it. His main concern is that these actions will make me look crazy/unfit to parent my kids in the eyes of the legal system

btw, your friend has no idea what he is talking about. Talking to a man who is having an affair with your wife does not make you an "unfit parent." People do this all the time. Good grief. Having an affair is a sign of an unfit parent, though.

Be civil and ask him what his intentions are with your wife. Tell him you fully intend to have him hauled into court to testify about his adultery in the stand in the future.

Have you exposed to his parents yet? I would get that done before Christmas so they can spend the holiday discussing his affair with a married woman.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 02:35 PM
Suggestion, please find LESS FEARFUL [gurl] friends. There is a difference between discussing reasonable risks and manufacturing outlandish hypotheticals. Your friends are in the LATTER category.

The notion that having a civil discussion with this man is going to a) make you look "weak" and b) cause you to lose custody of your kids is LOONEY and overwrought. Carp, you really need to stop scaring yourself like this and move forward. You are in a very tough spot and risks will have to be taken in order to shake things up. You can't afford the luxury of allowing FEAR to drive the boat here.

Dr. Harley has been doing this for 35 years, and is a licensed psychologist. He recommends causing as much trouble as possible for the OM. The problem here is the affairees have operated under conditions with no conflict. That needs to CHANGE.

Go have a come-to-Jesus with this man. Look the man in the eye, don't shake his filthy STD hand, and ask him what his intentions are with your wife. Let him know that there is no future for him with your wife because he will be eternally hated by your children and your in-laws. Let him know that he will be subpeonaed in an alienation of affection lawsuit if it doesnt stop.

This is long overdue, Carp.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 02:51 PM
Meloday and Cat

I am not afraid!! I am just posing questions that other people have that I have not thought of. I have 1 thing that cannot be taken away or fog babbled/spin put on.....the TRUTH!!

If OM parents question me....I have a true encounter between OM and my W...told by my W that involves OM family!!

Employers question me
Why would I risk slandering myself....ask OM and W to provide proof of my story.....

Ws family
I can site recent events to prove myself


Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 03:02 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say I thought you were afraid. I was just saying that it seems to be stagnating, so you might want to look into ways to shake things up and keep putting more pressure on them.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say I thought you were afraid. I was just saying that it seems to be stagnating, so you might want to look into ways to shake things up and keep putting more pressure on them.

No problem Cat.
Things seem to be stagnant...but they are not. "Good" pressure is coming from me (carrot)...... Timing for exposure is still being worked on. Letters are written...addresses are in hand....2 bosses schedules need to be verified....that will happen within the hour. I want Xmas to pass for Ws family...hammer will drop ASAP after that.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
No problem Cat.
Things seem to be stagnant...but they are not. "Good" pressure is coming from me (carrot)...... Timing for exposure is still being worked on. Letters are written...addresses are in hand....2 bosses schedules need to be verified....that will happen within the hour. I want Xmas to pass for Ws family...hammer will drop ASAP after that.

Carp, why are you waiting for exposure? What do you mean that you are waiting for Christmas to pass for WS family?

I would also point out that the carrot is not pressure. Too much carrot and no stick = enabling. I would agree this plan has stagnated; nothing is happening.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
No problem Cat.
Things seem to be stagnant...but they are not. "Good" pressure is coming from me (carrot)...... Timing for exposure is still being worked on. Letters are written...addresses are in hand....2 bosses schedules need to be verified....that will happen within the hour. I want Xmas to pass for Ws family...hammer will drop ASAP after that.

Carp, why are you waiting for exposure? What do you mean that you are waiting for Christmas to pass for WS family?

I would also point out that the carrot is not pressure. Too much carrot and no stick = enabling. I would agree this plan has stagnated; nothing is happening.

Just confirmed 2 of 3 bosses will be in between Xmas and New year. Last boss works at Ws office. 75%chance W will answer phone to confirm last boss schedule. Can I get a volunteer to call...W knows my voice.

Xmas is at our house....I want it to be nice for everyone...especially my daughters. I don't want the added pressure honestly.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Just confirmed 2 of 3 bosses will be in between Xmas and New year. Last boss works at Ws office. 75%chance W will answer phone to confirm last boss schedule. Can I get a volunteer to call...W knows my voice.

I would just send the email, Carp and get it over with.

Quote
Xmas is at our house....I want it to be nice for everyone...especially my daughters. I don't want the added pressure honestly.

The added pressure of what exactly? You mean putting off talkng to your DD's? Is that what you mean? I am not challenging you, just trying to understand exactly what you mean.
Quote
Xmas is at our house....I want it to be nice for everyone...especially my daughters. I don't want the added pressure honestly

Well, IMHO, I will reluctantly agree that Chistmas should be nice for your daughters. They have been under a lot of stress and it would be nice to take a vacation from that, even if only for a day. Kudos to you!!

Day after Christmas starts a new front in your battle. Your WW's self entitlement needs to be confronted with a new array of Trouble with a capital T.. Make it known that Christmas next year will look far different than this year's. Time for her to see the damage her entitlement will bring to the whole concept of "family"..

You mentioned that she has contracted HPV and has pre cancerous cells in the cervix. This is a huge red flag in that cevical cancer is primarily caused(95%) by an hpv infection. she must have this fully attended to quickly or she will become another statistic. Too many women around the globe still die every year from cervical cancer.

Also realize that if you have SF with your WW without protection, you too will become infected with this STD that remains for life. My Fww gets checked every years for the precense of cancerous cells in her cervix, as she contracted the same during her A and had the grace to infect me as well. It is exactly how I discovered the A, by my own infection.(urg)!

I do wish you well over Christmas, for you and your precious children, you all deserve God's grace and peace.



All Blessings,
Jerry

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 04:27 PM
Melody

Jerry hit it rite on point!! I would rather have her have a "nice" Xmas with me...and have our kids see this. Ws family will have the same.

Imagine how her brain has to see that!! OM is not with her....her whole family at OUR house having a wonderful holiday.

I already bought all the food, booze and W and our Ds baked cookies yesterday! I don't want to waste all that!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 04:30 PM
Jerry
HPV was diagnosed over the summer and is being delt with medically. I "presume" I have it because there is no test for men. W had yearly clean pap smears up till this year.....no doubtt where it came from. We have not had SF since April....but the damage is done.
C54:

What is up with this:

Quote
Imagine how her brain has to see that!! OM is not with her....her whole family at OUR house having a wonderful holiday.

No. That is NOT what she will see.

She will see that SHE IS NOT with her OM. And SHE will see that is what her LIFE could be like with OM.

Also, YOUR LETTING OM have a WONDERFUL holiday, while you simmer in turmoil.

SEND THE FRICKIN' LETTERS/EMAIL to her employer.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to OM. That's your gift, a blownup Christmas morning.

Will yours be MERRY? No. NO MATTER WHAT. WW will still be trying to hook-up with OM, everytime she leaves the house or steps towards the bathroom, you will be thinking that she is calling/visiting OM. You DON'T need that. Will WW wig out? Sure. You not making it easy for her to "Have FUN"

And your CHILDREN are still caught in this limbo. Time to FIGHT. When WW yells or screams: State simply: I am fighting for my marriage, and I will DO WHAT IT TAKES. There's the DOOR, there is no bar on it." "OM must GO"

LG

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 04:49 PM
I can push send on my phone rite now. The emails will go but not the letters the letters were to be next day mailed so all this lands at once. Confrontation of OM will not happen then. I thought the plan/idea was ALL at the same time...not a prolonged event.

Thoughts?
Quote
We have not had SF since April....but the damage is done.

Sadly, that is very true.

Monitor your health, visually, if you know what I mean. The most likely time of outbreak according to the CDC, is anywhere from 3 mos. to 2 years after initial expsosure to the virus.

I had the plesure of two seperate burning episodes from my doctor. Seems to have done the trick with no new outbreak for about 5 years now. Do assume, even without evidence, that you are indeed infected.

Contrary to popular belief, I do like your plan for Christmas. It shows to me the type and strenth of your character, one IMHO, puts you in a better place for recovery, should this occur.

You are on my prayer list this year! smile

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 07:40 PM
Jerry
The strain of HPV is the cancer causing strain not the other 1.

My original plan has been to wait till after Xmas.
1. for my kids
2. For logistical reasons.

I understand everyones points. Please believe me....after Xmas will NOT turn to after new years then after winter then after spring etc. I am using Xmas as a "battle" to show the rest of Ws family that I am NOT the POS that W has probably been spinning to her family.

I hope you guys can see it that way.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 08:02 PM
Carp,

I would do it today! I would have Christmas be nasty for the OM...meanwhile at the Carp home, you are having a great time with your kids.

I went for the throat on the OM over that first Christmas after my wife moved out. I stopped being a doormat and let everyone know. And I started saying "no" to my wife.

Guess who had a great Christmas??? That would be me and the kids

Guess who spent time together over Christmas? That would be the Om and my wife.

Guess who didnt have such a great time over Christmas, with lots of "discussions" going on? That would be the OM and my wife.

I would get that thing out right now!
Quote
I hope you guys can see it that way.

You don't have to hope, I see your plan very clearly. And I endorse and wish you well. You see???

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 08:12 PM
Mortarman
I hear you loud and clear.....my W will not be able to run to OM if I drop the hammer rite now....he's probably with his GF.

D12s bday was a month ago....W and I got into an arguement ON her bday!! Her bday was a complete wreck....D12 was angry for almost a week....I don't want that for Xmas.
Hopefully this can help you guys see why Xmas is so important to me.
Quote
The strain of HPV is the cancer causing strain not the other 1.

Yes I am more than familiar with them. There are 4 cancer causing strains: HPV 18, 16, 32 , and 35. these are 4 out of one hundred strains of HPV.

I know much more than I ever cared to know about this.

I still think, in spite of opinions otherwise, that your Christmas plans are good ones.

Time enough for continuation of the battle after Christmas. Your DD's are counting this year on you, more than ever!

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 08:23 PM
Carp,

Understood about why you are doing what you are doing. And I am not saying she will run to the OM's house. But, here's the rub...first off, you are missing out on a greayt opportunity to provide a huge smack upside the head of the affair. The OM and WW fighting on Christmas, and the Om having to answer questions from employer and family at Christmas time wont make things festive for them...not in the least!

But I see your point that you dont want your wife going off during Christmas and spoluie things for your daughter. Let me give you something to consider: it isnt an argument if only one person is involved! So, she starts going nuts duse to your exposure. So what? If it were me, I would ignore it. I would tell her "look it is Christmas and I am concentrating on the girls right now. We can discuss all of this stuff later." And then I wouldnt say another word. I would just go back to being Dad and leave her to stew if she wants to.

You see, even if she is a mess on Christmas, you wont be! And you will be concentrating on the girls. Guess what they will see? They will look at Dad and see strength, love, and family. They will look at Mom and see...what? You see what I mean?

There will be many more Christmas mornings! And hopefully, that will be with a recovered marriage and family. But you increase your odds if you use tools such as this at the right timing to maximize its destructive nature to the affair.

Thoughts?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by shinethrough
Quote
The strain of HPV is the cancer causing strain not the other 1.

Yes I am more than familiar with them. There are 4 cancer causing strains: HPV 18, 16, 32 , and 35. these are 4 out of one hundred strains of HPV.

I know much more than I ever cared to know about this.

I still think, in spite of opinions otherwise, that your Christmas plans are good ones.

Time enough for continuation of the battle after Christmas. Your DD's are counting this year on you, more than ever!

All Blessings,
Jerry

I have learned about more stuff in the last 6 months then I think I will ever want to know!! I have come very far personally, spiritually, mentally, physically(except for smoking)!!

As far as my daughters....they were a little leary of "improved" dad....I don't use the word "new"....I am not new..just better!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 08:29 PM
Mortarman

Honestly I understand 100%....I don't have all my chit together if you know what I mean. Letters need to be printed for our family and OM family....my confrontation buddy bailed....mentally I am trying to prepare for all incoming spew/questions from everyone who will be involved. I need a "answers to everyones questions" script.

OMs family asks something....I need to be prepared and calm

Family...same

You get the drift
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 08:43 PM
Carp,

I understand. Been there, done that! I was just trying to get yu to look at the tactical high ground you would gain by doing it before Christmas. It would be a huge body blow to the OM and their relationship.

On what to say...I think you already know. You dont need a script or set answer. I think you are capable of letting these folks know what has happened and why you are doing what you are doing. I dont think 4 more days will help in that regard.

Also, I think you could have all the paperwork printed out and ready to deliver in an hour.

What I hear you saying is that you are afraid of the implications of exposure. And you want to lessen the blow on you and the kids. Unfortunately, it doesnt work that way. All moving it to next week will do is to give the affair one more easy day.

I believed as you do early on in my wife's affair. It took quite awhile for me to realize what I needed to do, and to not over analyze things in order to lessen pain. It really isnt possible. The only one that has the ability to lessen or stop pain is your WW...and she must stop the affair and get her butt home and working on the marriage for the pain to stop.

You, sir, are now seeing first hand what the definition of "simple" and "easy" are. It is SIMPLE to put together the paperwork, send out the emails and drop off the paperwork. It is a very simple thing. But, it is not easy, because of all of the things you mentioned. It is hard.

But anyway, you are the "commander" on the ground...so you will need to decide what to do. All I am saying is from experience, plus all of the folks that have come before you here and their experiences...I believe you are missing a great chance to cause pain to that relationship.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 09:03 PM
Email is instant....other stuff will take at least 2 days to mail. I understand tactical advantage....I played army as a kid!! I lurked here awhile before joining and posting. I was following the DB theory...what a let down. I wish I "put my man pants" on sooner.....we would not be talking about exposure timing and letters and stuff...we would be talking about the fallout from it!! I am not afraid of the fallout...that will be her burden.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am not afraid of the fallout...that will be her burden.

Glad to hear it!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 11:56 PM
Update

Chatted with W on the way home from work. I forgot her bday is 12/29! She is off work from 12/24-12/29 back on the 30th. So....I am gonna do the following...

Ws best friend and family are gonna be here for the holidays. BFF hates OM so she will keep W busy for Ws days off.


Saturday....all mail goes to post office for Tuesday delivery. 1 piece has to go kinda far.

Monday...Ws bday....I am on emergency call that week so I will be working late...myself and another friend will go to OM/Ws work at the end of day. Will do "man to man" in parking lot.

Tuesday....at 8am emails will be sent to Ws/OM work...it will be Ws first day back since 12/23.....

Couple questions...
Man to man....I feel like a sissy asking OM "what are your intentions with my W?"....I really don't care what his intentions are! She is MY W still!! Any thoughts on this??
Email...first thing? Mail around us is around 2pm....

This seems like the most effective "nuclear" exposure....anyone see any chinks in my plan?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/22/08 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Understood about why you are doing what you are doing. And I am not saying she will run to the OM's house. But, here's the rub...first off, you are missing out on a greayt opportunity to provide a huge smack upside the head of the affair. The OM and WW fighting on Christmas, and the Om having to answer questions from employer and family at Christmas time wont make things festive for them...not in the least!

Carp, Mortarman is right, there is no reason to wait to expose the OM to his parents BEFORE Christmas. In fact, I know of no reason not to do it all before Christmas. It takes 2 ppl to fight, so there is no reason to get in a fight or allow it to disrupt your girls Christmas.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 12:02 AM
See, if you expose to his parents BEFORE Christmas, you will have ruined his Christmas and he won't be able to contact your wife and ruminate. So he will be stuck in miserable Christmas. Then, upon his return next Monday, those emails will be sitting in the mailboxes of all his bosses. You will have that little worm on the ropes.

You could time your "TALK" with him next Tuesday and have a little discussion with him letting him know how it will be.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 12:02 AM
Mel

I am honestly not ready today. Emails yes....letters no. I want W to be at work when emails arrive...Xmas postal service will NOT allow anything to arrive before Wednesday....W won't be at work anyway.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mel

I am honestly not ready today. Emails yes....letters no. I want W to be at work when emails arrive...Xmas postal service will NOT allow anything to arrive before Wednesday....W won't be at work anyway.

Why do you need your wife to be there when the emails arrive? I dont understand.. you can send the emails NOW. You can call his parents tomorrow and expose to their bosses which would have the effect of ruining the OM's holiday. Since they won't be at work together, they won't be able to rendevouz and concoct a story.

I am pretty strategic but am not getting the point here.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 12:18 AM
ok, Carp, here is what you said LAST WEEK:

Quote
As for the mailing of the letters to Ws work
All mail goes past her desk/dept.
Email may be the way to go there. All addresses are on the company website. Letter to OM parents can be mailed though.

Now you are saying you have to MAIL the letters to the department heads and time them to arrive when your wife is there. Am i reading this right?

I do understand that you want your DD's to have a nice Christmas, but there is no reason not to put the OM through holy hell for Christmas.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 12:24 AM
Emails arrive....bosses talk to OM....you know he is gonna call W crying! Letters won't make it till Thursday MAYBE if I mail them tomorrow. I thought all at once was best? You know as well as I that breaks in exposure=time for spin!?

When I verbally exposed earlier this year to Ws family at first it was....OMG!!! Now that spin control is going....some of them won't even answer the phone.

I don't want to call OMs family...what if they aren't home....caller ID....what if [censored] OM is visiting mommy and daddy....reading a letter takes ALL those risks out of the equation.

I want a TSUNAMI....not some little waves on the shore!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ok, Carp, here is what you said LAST WEEK:

Quote
As for the mailing of the letters to Ws work
All mail goes past her desk/dept.
Email may be the way to go there. All addresses are on the company website. Letter to OM parents can be mailed though.

Now you are saying you have to MAIL the letters to the department heads and time them to arrive when your wife is there. Am i reading this right?

I do understand that you want your DD's to have a nice Christmas, but there is no reason not to put the OM through holy hell for Christmas.

Emails to bosses

Snail mail to both families.
Carp,

In spite of the hysterior being spoon fed to you, I do wish you and your family a very blessed and joyful Christmas.

Pray to God for a miracle. Beyond that, I guess you should follow others advise.

I was just hoping, you remember hope, don't you??????

Just me


All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by shinethrough
Carp,

In spite of the hysterior being spoon fed to you, I do wish you and your family a very blessed and joyful Christmas.

What is "hysterior" and who is spoon feeding it to him? crazy
Posted By: not2fun Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 01:52 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Hopefully this can help you guys see why Xmas is so important to me.

Carp.....

You need to have your bubble burst right now....Christmas is going to SUCK....

no matter what you do.....

whether you expose today, Christmas Eve, or

even if you wait....

You will watch your WW and wonder....

wonder what her present means (if she gets you one)
wonder what she gave the OM (and that will include any "favors")
wonder what she is thinking
wonder if this will be your last Christmas as a family


NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO....it will SUCK....and when the presents are open, the dinner done, the family is gone...you will become ANGRY....very VERY VERY ANGRY...

because she is having an affair
because what SHE has done has caused this holiday to SUCK
because she is CHOOSING him...over you, the kids, the dog...EVERYTHING...

And when that happens you will LOVE BUST....big time...

But in truth, if you choose to delay your exposure, you will have to look in the mirror and be ANGRY with yourself...because you are delaying the MOST important tool in your arsanal....EXPOSURE....

Trust me on this....I was in your EXACT position this time last year. Only, I had already started exposure. So I could look at myself on Christmas evening knowing I was doing all that I could to fight for my family, so we would NEVER EVER go through a Christmas like that again....

And you know what???

This year is MUCH MUCH better...and it isn't even Christmas....YET....

So today, you cannot save Christmas this year BUT you can start doing what NEEDS to be done to save it next year...

not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
.caller ID....


*69.....works EVERY TIME....

Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 04:16 PM
Can you scan the documents and email those to the families at the same time as the email to the bosses?

I agree with the others who are urging you to expose NOW.

I really don't understand how you could wait another second. Start working your foot into OM's [censored] IMMEDIATELY.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/23/08 05:25 PM
My Ws family do not all have emails
I only have names and addresses for OM family.

I have a plan
I want to stick to my plan
Why can't I get a "I like your plan ....we support you....if it were me I would do etc etc...let me try to answer your other questions".

I have 2 daughters....let's think like this....I drop bomb....I get chit on Xmas from Ds. We know what is rite....kids don't see it like that...they only see TODAY.

Kids dont understand morals....ethics....adultery etc. All they will see is.....dad ruined Xmas!!

I am protecting my kids from the fallout

When W and I went to MC on Saturday the C wanted to chat with us both together and seperately. I recounted Xmas 2007....it sucked W and I were in a bad spot (I find out A was 6 months in at Xmas)....December last year sucked in general.....I told C how bad Xmas was....I gave my word to make Xmas this year better! Last Xmas I was drunk and asleep before present opening...I was very depressed....the month was so bad that I felt I was having my "last Xmas" as a family.
Of course now that I look back a last December knowing what I know today....I can see why the month sucked so bad!!

Cam anyone see it my way now?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 12:53 AM
Alive and ok....I guess. Xmas went off fine. No drama.

Leaving a recorder going in your house while you are out with your kids can be painful. Ten minutes after we left W called OM

They chatted about Ws broken car
They talked about Ws nutso stepdad "kicking my [censored]"
She actually talked about going thru "withdrawls" from not talking to him for a few days.
She was sad because she couldn't see him over the next few days or the last couple days or text him.
She giggled like a teenager...kinda revolting....
She did say ILY to him

She then called her uncle....and told him what OM said about the car...obviously he is an enabled.

OM will not be at work on Monday.....confrontation will not happen as planned.

Ws stepdad is nuts.

Eariler in the day W thanked me for a nice Xmas

When we got home from store W asked me if she could give me a hug...as part of her "thank you"

I politely declined her hug. She "seemed" like she really wanted to. I told her based on how things are going a hug would be innappropriate.

Exposure letters will go out...should I exclude uncle and nutso stedad?
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 01:23 AM
So sorry. But the more you know, the more you can protect the marriage and get your real wife back. And she can come back. Please remember that. So very many people here talk about how the WS gets away from the afair, and they are horrified, literally, that they ever said what they said, did what they did, hurt who they did. This is possible with your wife. Not guaranteed, but possible.

If I were you, I would expose to every single person who knows her. Even the 7-11 clerk, if it matters to her that he knows. Everyone.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 02:35 AM
thx Cat

I decided after I posted....I WILL send them letters as well.....if they question me/tell me I am wrong.....I will thank them and acknowledge their skewed POV.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 01:00 PM
This morning my nerves are absolutely shot!!! I have loaded the printer, downloaded the letters to my PC.
I want save my marriage/family but this hurts me to be doing.
W is so deep into this....and probably her family also.
I am gonna pray a bit and calm myself down.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 04:04 PM
Well

After sitting quietly for awhile, praying, eating, showering and getting out of the house now I feel better.
Couple things that I thought of while showering
1. Letters to be mailed to all parties will happen....even enabling(sp?) uncle and unstable step father in law.
2. Emails to Ws work will not happen. I honestly did not get enough legal guidance on this one. I went over the scenerio in my head and it very well could play out against me. Since I have filed for D these mails could be used against me legally as far as appearing I was trying to get my W fired. There is too much risk involved that I did not think about or consult legally about.

The letters don't contain any threatening wording so legally those don't "look" bad.

Any thoughts or comments??

Funny thing....After printing 1 of each letter to be mailed I hid them under my mattress while in the shower. I get out of the shower and D12 is asleep in my bed!!
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 04:31 PM
That's so cool that you have that good of a relationship with your DD that she considers your bed safe.

I don't know about the work letters. I think others will chew you out for not doing it. Can you visit these people? Do it in person? Show them how devastated you are?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
That's so cool that you have that good of a relationship with your DD that she considers your bed safe.

I don't know about the work letters. I think others will chew you out for not doing it. Can you visit these people? Do it in person? Show them how devastated you are?


I will consult my lawyer Monday first thing.

A face to face or a phone chat would be good.

I know I may get chewed out....I have to think of the legal side also....I was not doing that correctly before.

Both my daughters love my bed!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/27/08 07:33 PM
Letters to Ws family Ws IC and OMs family sent!! I also sent myself and my attorney both letters. On my attorneys envelope I wrote "do not open before calling me".

I have been thinking about the recordings and the threats of violence against me. I shared this info with my mom...and obviously here. I am going to transcribe the conversation and consult my attorney with the info. Secret recordings are illegal...but with my health/safety at risk as well as my kids...I can't be too safe.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 01:47 PM
This morning my nerves are shot!! The first of the letters shoud be arriving today. I have been going over my responses to people in my head. The family members that do cal I will talk about the affair as an "addiction". I will try to reference specific examples of Ws actions in relation to an addict.
As far as OMs family...not alot here I can think of....I can sight some specifics as far as things W has told me about when we were "working things out" earlier this summer.

I have been praying and spending some alone time these last couple days.....

W has a bunch of friends over at the house. I had to work yesterday and when I got home we were discussing dinner. I told them if they went to the store and got some steaks and stuff I would BBQ dinner for everyone. W and 1 of her friends and D12 went to the store and grabbed a bunch of food. We had a delicious dinner. In the past W has always commented that winter BBQ makes her think of summer. This winter I have really increased the amount of BBQ I have been doing.

W was in a bad mood yesterday overall. She and her friends were out sat night. Her friends were home in the morning when I went to work....W was not. When I got home from work W was in her PJs and in her cave. She came out to eat with us and chat for a bit and then spent the rest of the night in her room. Everyone else in our house was kinda spread all over the place. Me and my kids hung out in my room watching tv until I went to bed.

I have noticed this "bad mood good mood" pattern and know that it directly relates to her "fix" of OM.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 01:53 PM
Carp, did the workplace letters go out today also? We need those to hit at the same time. That was all part of the strategy.

And I understand your upset, but just expect an explosion and you won't be disappointed. Don't try to reason with her and don't allow her to bait you into a fight. When she attacks you, simply say, I am sorry you are upset, but others have a right to know about your affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
I don't know about the work letters. I think others will chew you out for not doing it. Can you visit these people? Do it in person? Show them how devastated you are?

huh? That is not how a workplace exposure should go. The letter we gave him was designed by a CORPORATE ATTORNEY who does this for a living. SHE DOES THIS EVERY DAY. She told us how to do this right. DAMMIT.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 01:56 PM
CArp, please tell me you did not hold back the most important letters, ie: the WORKPLACE EXPOSURE letters. Those were the most critical part of exposure because that is where their affair takes place.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Emails to Ws work will not happen. I honestly did not get enough legal guidance on this one. I went over the scenerio in my head and it very well could play out against me. Since I have filed for D these mails could be used against me legally as far as appearing I was trying to get my W fired. There is too much risk involved that I did not think about or consult legally about.

I give up! This is all for naught.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Emails to Ws work will not happen. I honestly did not get enough legal guidance on this one. I went over the scenerio in my head and it very well could play out against me. Since I have filed for D these mails could be used against me legally as far as appearing I was trying to get my W fired. There is too much risk involved that I did not think about or consult legally about.

I give up! This is all for naught.

Mel

I need to consult my lawyer this morning before those emails can be sent. 9:00 am local time her office opens. Remember I filed and a workplace exposure could be used against me negatively. If I was doing all this before I filed I can see the benefits....I need to cover my ars!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 02:20 PM
This is nothing more than more conflict avoidance, Carp. There is no legal risk in telling the truth. That letter was devised by a corporate attorney who frequents this board. I have been here for 8 years and there has never ever been a legal problem for reporting an affair to the workplace. We do this all the time.

This is just a delaying tactic and a waste of our time.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 02:31 PM
p.s. the goal of an attorney is to facilitate an amicable divorce, yours is to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. He won't want you to expose ANYWHERE for that reason. He will want you to do nothing so the divorce can be executed as easily and simply as possible.

He has no experience in saving marriages, his experience is in DISSOLVING THEM.

Dr Harley has experience SAVING MARRIAGES, so if that is your goal, you should stick with us.

And that is the last thing I am going to say on the subject. You came here and asked for advice, we gave it. Now you can take it or leave it.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 02:38 PM
Mel
Again I 100% agree. How many of those people sent of the letters AFTER filing for D??

I know the truth is good....I can deal with the anger...I need to know I am not jeapordizing myself legally by doing it.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 02:41 PM
You do what you need to do. We have helped you as much as we possibly can and if you don't take our advice, there is nothing more we can do. We spent alot of time with you that I feel was entirely wasted. But lets not pretend like this is not a delaying tactic, Carp. Thats all it is.
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by catperson
I don't know about the work letters. I think others will chew you out for not doing it. Can you visit these people? Do it in person? Show them how devastated you are?

huh? That is not how a workplace exposure should go. The letter we gave him was designed by a CORPORATE ATTORNEY who does this for a living. SHE DOES THIS EVERY DAY. She told us how to do this right. DAMMIT.
I agree, but he was saying he wasn't going to, so I was trying to get him to do something, anything, if he's too scared.

carp, this is the number one way to stop the A, right? So fight for your marriage! Be mad!
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mel
Again I 100% agree. How many of those people sent of the letters AFTER filing for D??

I know the truth is good....I can deal with the anger...I need to know I am not jeapordizing myself legally by doing it.

Oh come on already!

I called the OM's boss and talked to him personally. I emailed his pastor, and called his wife...ONE DAY after d-day.

You can justify it however you want...you are afraid to expose, and you're trying to avoid it as long as you possibly can. If you ever do, that is. I'm sure you'll find some reason not to.

You are being a doormat. Doormats get walked on.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 03:06 PM
Krazy

You filed for D and then exposed at work?
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 03:13 PM
If you've filed and you're serious about following through with it, there's no real reason to expose except for revenge, which I understand.

If you are only using filing for D as a threat, or attempting to coerce her into coming back to you, then expose NOW. The D and the exposure are unrelated.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by Krazy71
If you've filed and you're serious about following through with it, there's no real reason to expose except for revenge, which I understand.

If you are only using filing for D as a threat, or attempting to coerce her into coming back to you, then expose NOW. The D and the exposure are unrelated.

I only filed to protect myself and my kids. We have not made it to court, we don't even talk about it. I don't want a divorce!!
Posted By: grindnfool Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by Krazy71
If you've filed and you're serious about following through with it, there's no real reason to expose except for revenge, which I understand.

If you are only using filing for D as a threat, or attempting to coerce her into coming back to you, then expose NOW. The D and the exposure are unrelated.

I agree and disagree. Consequences of a Wayward's decsion should never be swept under the rug. Hence, I would lean towards exposure regardless.

Interesting point in the second sentence above, what is the reason for the divorce papers? Are you done? Do you want to save your marriage?

I have a major issue with filing unless it is a done deal and you are ready to move on with life without your wife. Marriage in this society is already tending to be a throw away item. Playing games with divorce magnifies this issue and weakens marriage as an institution, I believe I see nothing wrong with filing for 'Legal Separation' to protect your finances, visitation, etc. But, filing for divorce should be done only when you are completely done and ready to move on.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 03:32 PM
Grindnfool

I only filed after my wife basically gave me some BS papers which gave her everything. She stood in our kitchen and told me she would make me out to be a child molester if I fought her. During trips to MC we discussed this with the MC and my W said she did not mean it and she was scared and hurt.

I only filed to protect myself and kids from her. I am dragging my feet filing out all the necessary paperwork.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 04:11 PM
Mail sent at 10:10 cst
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mail sent at 10:10 cst

Excellent!
Originally Posted by Carp54
She stood in our kitchen and told me she would make me out to be a child molester if I fought her. During trips to MC we discussed this with the MC and my W said she did not mean it and she was scared and hurt.

sick

Please be sure that your MC has these comments documented in your file should your WW be vindictive enough to do this.
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by Carp54
She stood in our kitchen and told me she would make me out to be a child molester if I fought her. During trips to MC we discussed this with the MC and my W said she did not mean it and she was scared and hurt.

sick

Please be sure that your MC has these comments documented in your file should your WW be vindictive enough to do this.

That, plus his kids are old enough to speak to a judge and give him/her the truth.

My son is 7 and if my wife tried to coerce him into lying to a judge about being molested, he'd laugh in her face.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 06:01 PM
Ah, finally the orders came through.

Dam the torpedoes and full speed ahead.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 06:24 PM
2 hours since emails and not a peep!!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 07:54 PM
Just talked to one of OMs family!!! His cousins wife....they have no clue....veryc supportive of me and my family. She said his family is very respectful and good and stuff. I relayed a specific story very calmly to give myself extra credibility.

No news on work front...
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 08:08 PM
That's great! She's worried about reputations, which is why she tried to convince you that her family is 'good' and all. That might help, get them to pressure him not to ruin their family name.
Posted By: grindnfool Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Please be sure that your MC has these comments documented in your file should your WW be vindictive enough to do this.
This is very good, prudent advice.

Glad to hear you went ahead with exposure to the workplace.

Expect alot of venom from the WS when she finds out. Be prepared for it and don't lose your cool.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 08:32 PM
Thx everyone!! I assured here I was not out for revenge just trying to save my family. I even admitted I am not the "perfect" husband...she agreed saying what man is!! Someone put up my list of "anti spew" lines!!! I have a feeling tonite will be long!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:10 PM
Wife stopped into work today. She was sent home. My attorney contacted me in regards to the email. She said it was not a smart move. I forwarded her a copy.

My Ws attorney talked to my attorney in regards to the mail and the OMs GF incident.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:18 PM
Carp,

Your attorney will say that. Mine did too! Because if you were out to hurt your wife, then it would be bad for you.

But you have a world renowned marriage counselor (Dr. Harley) whose experience in this sort of thing is what you were counting on. You can point to his precepts and advice for the reason for your actions...not some hair brained scheme where you are angry.

Maybe it will help your attorney if you forward some of that information to her, so she understands what you are upto.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:25 PM
Mortarman

My attorney talked to Ws attorney. My attorney had mentioned if my wife got fired I could have to pay maintenance etc.

I told my attorney exactly why I did it.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mortarman

My attorney talked to Ws attorney. My attorney had mentioned if my wife got fired I could have to pay maintenance etc.

I told my attorney exactly why I did it.

I am not liking this attorney of yours. If your wife gets fired, it is because of HER actions, not your information. if your attorney cant work with that, you may need to look for a different one.
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:31 PM
I think you'll find that even if it costs you financially, it'll be worth it in the long run.

It'll be worth having something to look back on and say, "I wasn't a total doormat".
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mortarman

My attorney talked to Ws attorney. My attorney had mentioned if my wife got fired I could have to pay maintenance etc.

I told my attorney exactly why I did it.

I am not liking this attorney of yours. If your wife gets fired, it is because of HER actions, not your information. if your attorney cant work with that, you may need to look for a different one.

I agree, but what would an attorney know about accountability for one's own actions?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:48 PM
This is all easy for you guys to sit around and chat about
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
This is all easy for you guys to sit around and chat about

Carp,

It isnt easy! I have been where you are at. I had an attorney that didnt want me to do anything. Make it easy on him. But I didnt.

Shoot, for those that know my sitch, there was an "incident" at my house the first time she moved out, where I ended up at the local jail in handcuffs. My attorney said "that isnt gonna help your position."

I got custody 6 months later and her paying me child support.

Attorneys want things easy for them. I made mine work! I did a lot of the researching and brought him reams of paper and evidence. I made sure he had everything he needed. If I left it up to him, half of that wouldnt have been done.

Your attorney is just one member of your team now. Dr. Harley is another. You will be fine on the legal front, as long as you stay in line with the advice of the doctor.

But, if your attorney cannot grasp that...then as I said, I might be doing a little lawyer hunting!
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
This is all easy for you guys to sit around and chat about

No, it's not.

I walked in on my wife with another man, naked on my couch.

My brain now seems to work at about 75% capacity, likely due to undiagnosed PTSD. Luckily, I have enough experience at my job that I'm able to cover it. I have more anger inside than I can exercise or deep-breathe out of me.

Do you think this is a joke to me? I don't know of any members that are here for fun, other than the occasional troll.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:08 PM
I wasn't putting anyone elses sitch down.

A incident like MortarMans makes me feel better!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:15 PM
You guys got an advice for when I get home?? I just called there and talked to my kids.

I was thinking if my W started to flip I would calmly tell her.....let us both go to your work....tell the truth....ask for their help....and go from there...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
You guys got an advice for when I get home?? I just called there and talked to my kids.

I was thinking if my W started to flip I would calmly tell her.....let us both go to your work....tell the truth....ask for their help....and go from there...

No, just tell her you are sure sorry she is upset and leave it at that. Don't try to reason with her and don't allow her to bait you into a fight. And most of all, don't react in FEAR. Just envision that you have infuriated the crack head by bringing in a crowd of onlookers. You ruined her high and she is furious!

DON'T REACT.
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:41 PM
Would a reply something like, "I'm sorry you're embarrassed by your actions" be out of place? rotflmao
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mortarman

My attorney talked to Ws attorney. My attorney had mentioned if my wife got fired I could have to pay maintenance etc.

You have a much greater chance of paying maintenance if you DON"T expose because you are more likely to get divorced. WE ARE TRYING TO AVOID DIVORCE HERE. [please tell your atty the goal] If your wife gets fired, it will because of HER AFFAIR. You are not obligated to help her hide her dirty secret so she can trick her employer. That is ridiculous.

And I would also point out that your attorney doesn't know how to save marriages, he knows how to FACILITATE DIVORCES. We are trying to save your marriage here, not get you divorced.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:46 PM
I like yours krazy!! Seems mean though.

Home in 20....recorder ready....gimmie something good!!
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:48 PM
It's not mean, it's just 100% honest.

This is all her fault.

Nothing you've ever done or said justifies her affair.

Remember the line above. It'll come in handy many, many times in the near future.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/29/08 10:48 PM
Mel
I made that clear when I spoke to my attorney.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 12:13 AM
wow!!!
W was very calm....she said that everyone got their letters....even his 89yr old grandma. She asked me why I don't confront him man to man. I don't remember my response...it was calm though. She was WAY calm...scary calm. When I got out of the shower she was in her car on the phone.

While I was making dinner for me and D9 she left. While having my after dinner smoke in the garage(and while posting this) she came back. As I type....in the bathroom now....she is still outside in the car.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 12:59 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
wow!!!
W was very calm....she said that everyone got their letters....even his 89yr old grandma. She asked me why I don't confront him man to man. I don't remember my response...it was calm though. She was WAY calm...scary calm. When I got out of the shower she was in her car on the phone.

While I was making dinner for me and D9 she left. While having my after dinner smoke in the garage(and while posting this) she came back. As I type....in the bathroom now....she is still outside in the car.

Is she speaking to the OM at the home of her husband and children?

And are you planning on have a discussion with weinerboy?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
asked me why I don't confront him man to man.

You know, I agree. I would follow her suggestion and go out to her car, knock on the window and ask to speak to weinerboy. Tell her she is right, that you should speak to him man to man and ask for the phone.

Tell weinerboy that your W very much would like you two to meet and has asked that you face him man to man. What time can he meet with you tomorrow?

Then once you get it set, politely thank him and click off the phone. Ask your wife to "kindly take her filthy affair talk away from the safe home of you and the children. Ask her to please have a little respect for you all." She can take it her affair talk to the alley where it belongs, but it shouldn't be done in front of you and the kids.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:11 AM
He will get his turn!!!

I just got out of solo MC. W called MC this afternoon!! She said she sounded frantic and was crying. She said she did not sound angry. MC wants me to say this to W if she asks why I did this.....I did not do it to be vindictive....I am fighting for you!!
MC has another husband planning on doing the same thing soon. MC can't wait to see me next week!
I am curious why she wants you two to meet. Does she think he will say "I am sorry for screwing your wife" shake hands and go on with your lives?? He probably wants all this exposure to stop...well thats up to your wife!!

But if you do meet....make sure you have a reliable witness in case it gets ugly for legal reasons.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 03:19 AM
Enabling uncle just called....read me the riot act. He says I should just move on....I should get some pride....why would I want to be with a cheater....I told him I love my wife and am fighting for her......I told him I was sorry he felt the way he does.

He also said if my wife lost her job he would finance her whole divorce.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 11:15 AM
Here I am at 5:15 am....no other drama last night. W was gone for a couple hours last night....I believe she was home by midnight. I slept ok I guess just kinda nervous as far as what today will bring.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Here I am at 5:15 am....no other drama last night. W was gone for a couple hours last night....I believe she was home by midnight. I slept ok I guess just kinda nervous as far as what today will bring.

Just imagine the explosion going on in affairville. grin And the OMGF is going to have to do some serious self spinning out of this one!

When do your workplace letters hit?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Here I am at 5:15 am....no other drama last night. W was gone for a couple hours last night....I believe she was home by midnight. I slept ok I guess just kinda nervous as far as what today will bring.

Just imagine the explosion going on in affairville. grin And the OMGF is going to have to do some serious self spinning out of this one!

When do your workplace letters hit?

OMGF is on "hold" in their relationship according to OM family member I talked to.
Work mail hit yesterday Mel!!
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:11 PM
Carp,

Overall, it was a good day for you and yoru family. I know yo uare nervous, and it may even cause some setbacks. But, as Melody has said on here, this is a war and you need to fight it as such.

You cannot win by staying in your foxhole. Today, you got out of your foxhole and advanced on the enemy. Of course, by getting out of the foxhole, you expose yourself and you can be open to attack and even some wounds.

But remember...you and her both have battle plans. Here is hers:

"I am going to leave him, divorce him, and take everything. If need be. I have an uncle who will help me...and of course, my soulmate (OM) will be there for me." The problem with her plan is that she has almost no odds of making it...even if you do NOTHING! 98% of all affairs end. Out of the 2% that make it to marriage, over 60% of those fail. She has less than a 1% chance of making it with the OM. So, even if you do nothing, odds are very good that they wont make it (and Dr. harley talks about why that is in his books and on this website).

Now, your plan. Your plan is Plan A, and eventually Plan B. These were developed by a world-renowned doctor who has been VERY successful in saving and restoring marriages from the ravages of infidelity. Even if you do nothing, only around 50% of marriages end. So, your odds are better than hers 50 fold...even if you do nothing! And if you follow the instructions of Dr. Harley, your odds double.

Now tell me...if you were outside of this and had money and were going to bet on your wife's plan or yours...where would you put your money?? It is a no brainer!

So, keep up the attack. Stay calm. Dont be baited into discussions or arguments. You are on a mission and do not need to converse about your plan with the enemy (your wife is not the enemy...your WW is!). When she explodes or wants more info, just stand there and look at her like she is speaking in Russian.

One more thing...on meeting the OM...I usually say that it isnt a good idea. Not face to face, as you never know where tempers will go (yours or his). And a flare up between the two of you might not look good in court. Talking to him on the phone? Sure. Tell him that you will do whatever it takes to return your wife to her family and home. That you will not quit on her.

I found out that the couple of conversations I had with the Troll (the OM) really weighed on him. He couldnt understand why I didnt just quit (like he did with his cheating wife). Everytime something bad would happen, or my wife would run...he would rub his hands thinking he had won. But, I would return to the fight...frustrating him! My wife would say he would go from being happy, to very moody (I love that!!).

Remember, in the end, the OM is not your problem! Your WW is. If the WW will go away and your wife will return...then the OM becomes irrelevent.

Anyway, keep us uptodate on things. Good luck. Keep getting intel on what she is upto so you can better plan for counter attacks.

Carry on!
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:14 PM
Carp, I am really really proud of you. This has been an amazing story.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:17 PM
This is what exposure does. It causes so many problems that it's no longer fun to have an affair.

Hold tight.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:33 PM
Thx again for the encouraging words everyone!

I called our cell provider and got them to send me detailed bills of both of our last months activities. Problem is....mine goes to PO box...hers goes to the house!

Last night I was just bushed. I goofed with my kids abit but was in bed by 10. I tossed and turned but did sleep ok. I feel better now that I am at work.....I just gotta actually start to do some!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
One more thing...on meeting the OM...I usually say that it isnt a good idea. Not face to face, as you never know where tempers will go (yours or his). And a flare up between the two of you might not look good in court.

Mortarman hits on an important point. If you think you will lose your temper, then don't do this. And I always say leave your pistol in the car! But this is a strategy that I have heard from both Steve Harley and Dr Harley. Meeting face to face with the OM and asking "what are your plans with my wife" will shake him up and that is what you want to do. We have even had OPs tell the BS that they were under the impression the marriage was over. In other words, the WS was lying to them. Meeting the OM can possibly clear that up. Tell him that you intend on fighting for your marriage and will not back down.

In your case, he has met you before, but in cases where the OM has not met the BH, it allows the OM to put a real face to a name and see for himself that the BH is not the demon described by the WS.

But as MM suggested, if you think your temper would flare and you will bash his head in, then call rather than visit. There is no way in hell I could visit an OP and keep my temper in check because I know my limitations.

The whole point here is to cause as much conflict as possible for the OM. Make his life hell. Everytime he contacts your wife, call him up. <----that is straight out of Dr Harley's mouth. Don't make it easy for him to destroy your family.

And what about filing that alienation of affection lawsuit? Did you mention they have those in your state?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Thx again for the encouraging words everyone!

I called our cell provider and got them to send me detailed bills of both of our last months activities. Problem is....mine goes to PO box...hers goes to the house!

Can you get it online? Most cellphone detail can be seen online.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:38 PM
Mel

The alienation thing is tough!! Not because of evidence but because most lawyers don't want anything to do with it!!
I already have a good chunk down with my own attorney.
My W on the other hand had about $100 dollars left last time I looked.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Thx again for the encouraging words everyone!

I called our cell provider and got them to send me detailed bills of both of our last months activities. Problem is....mine goes to PO box...hers goes to the house!

Can you get it online? Most cellphone detail can be seen online.

I used to have online access...password has been changed.
I am gonna hit the post office today and see if I can have all our mail go to our ok box for a week or so.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I used to have online access...password has been changed.
I am gonna hit the post office today and see if I can have all our mail go to our ok box for a week or so.

You know what? grin You can go online and have them hold your mail for VACATION. Then you can go there and pick it up every time you are close by. That is a quick fix that won't require alot of footwork. You can go to www.usps.com and do that.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I used to have online access...password has been changed.
I am gonna hit the post office today and see if I can have all our mail go to our ok box for a week or so.

You know what? grin You can go online and have them hold your mail for VACATION. Then you can go there and pick it up every time you are close by. That is a quick fix that won't require alot of footwork. You can go to www.usps.com and do that.

I forgot about the "mail hold" Mel!! I have a PO box....I did not want my kids to see legal papers coming to our house
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 04:30 PM
For that matter, you can go to the Post Office and open a PO Box and turn in a change of address card, and everything will be rerouted to the PO box and she won't have access to your mail at all any more. That way, if she does any sneaky changes or sets up new accounts, you'll get that, too - at least til she catches on.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
For that matter, you can go to the Post Office and open a PO Box and turn in a change of address card, and everything will be rerouted to the PO box and she won't have access to your mail at all any more. That way, if she does any sneaky changes or sets up new accounts, you'll get that, too - at least til she catches on.

Cat

I have had a PO box for myself for about the last 3 months. I am gonna do the vacation hold thing. Her mail still goes to the house
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 05:08 PM
I know, but this could be like a permanent thing. Like you could tell her you want to safeguard y'all's mail, so you set up a new PO Box for the household. One more step in making it hard for her to dissociate from you.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
I know, but this could be like a permanent thing. Like you could tell her you want to safeguard y'all's mail, so you set up a new PO Box for the household. One more step in making it hard for her to dissociate from you.

Would that even be worth it?? Just to piss her off! We do have 2 kids....she will never "get away from me".
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 06:02 PM
Been thinking....
Work thing goes nowhere because W and OM use personal cellphones to text.
Can the company make them show these records??

If they can't.....then I might get an email that says.....thank you for slandering our employees.....see you in court!!!

Let's say I get this email this week. I won't yet have our cell records as proof....I need a reply to stall.

My W had made a copy of her cell records a couple weeks ago to show D12 how much texting she has been doing. Her entire bill was 71 pages long. Of course I only saw the pages with D12s texts (Ws were 3217). I know she printed all 71 pages at work because she had pages 1-3&67-71. She must have shredded the rest.
This 71 page bill is what I am waiting for.
I need something in "legaleeze" to respond to them (if they do respond) if they send me above mail.

Ideas??
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 06:23 PM
Stay focused Carp.
You're running off on a tangent with that last post.
Companies do not sue husbands for slandering cheating wives.
They've got way better things to spend money on, especially in these times...

You've got enough to do without adding to your burden.
Go sell your car...



Originally Posted by Carp54
Been thinking....
Work thing goes nowhere because W and OM use personal cellphones to text.
Can the company make them show these records??

If they can't.....then I might get an email that says.....thank you for slandering our employees.....see you in court!!!

Let's say I get this email this week. I won't yet have our cell records as proof....I need a reply to stall.

I don't think the compay could make them show them their personal cell records nor would ask. Stop worrying about getting sued for telling the truth. It can't be slander if the accusations are true and no company is going to take you to court over this. You don't need to stall. If you do happen to get a response before the phone bill arrives, you can still have a conversation with HR. Inhale!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 06:45 PM
Sell my car!!!! Which one!? LOL.

I am not worried as much as you guys think....just planning ahead.
How about if I get a response that simply says they don't find anything??
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 06:49 PM
Here's the thing, Carp. Dont worry whether they find anything or not.

Exposing to her work wasnt to get her fired. It was to get the affair out in the open. To get everyone looking at the two of them and discussing the sordid life they are living. To get the boss to tell them to "cut it out." To make them have to take precautions at work...making the affair less fun.

So, even if they say they didnt find anything, it wont matter. The boss will probably tell them to knock it off. They wil lsay nothing is happening. And a few weeks later, with more proof, you send to the boss...and he realizes he has been lied to.

Dont worry about this. Just keep to your plan!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 06:59 PM
MortarMan

That's a fantastic answer!!
If they don't contact me....let it go?
If they do...we will go from there!
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 07:01 PM
Exactly!

If a person gets caught doing something wrong there is a whole list of NEGATIVE emotions that they experience....they will feel: embarrassed, guilty, uneasy, paranoid, shame, whispered about, judged, etc. etc.

That is a LOT different than the emotions they had when everything was a SECRET. Then it was exciting, passionate, daring, flattering, etc.

See the difference?

She won't be able to recapture the good emotions from the affair now that it has been exposed. She will FIGHT you. She will blame you. She will defend the affair. All in an attempt to recapture those good emotions.

Exposure puts the affair on even ground with the marriage. Now she will have to make a decision on less emotional ground.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 07:22 PM
Beautiful stuff Lexxy!!

Makes me feel better just reading that!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 09:12 PM
Exposure day+1

W and I have not exchanged any form of communication since last night when she handed me the phone to talk to enabling uncle.

I am gonna be on my way home....should be there in approx 2hrs. I am gonna order some carryout for everyone there(Ws friends are still there) shower, shave, dress sharp and look and smell good. When I see W I will say my standard "hey" as normal as I can. I would normally ask her how her day was...but I don't think I wanna go there. We will eat and then I am gonna grab me some clean laundry....plop down in the living room...fold some clothes and watch TV. This is not a new thing for me....my laundry skills have GREATLY improved in the last couple months!! I know what you ladies are thinkin smile. This would be about as close to normal a day as could be....pre E day. Ws cave is about 10 feet from the couch. If she asks me to go to my room and do this stuff..I will calmly say no. Anyone got a better idea?? Or am I thinkin to much?? Should I stay a little dark for the next couple days? I think me chatting with her friends/kids is gonna upset her....but I think that will be her problem!!
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 09:14 PM
Good plan. And it is her problem. Enjoy.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Been thinking....

If they can't.....then I might get an email that says.....thank you for slandering our employees.....see you in court!!!

That is not "thinking" that is mental masturbation. GOOD GRIEF. Give it a rest!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Been thinking....

If they can't.....then I might get an email that says.....thank you for slandering our employees.....see you in court!!!

That is not "thinking" that is mental masturbation. GOOD GRIEF. Give it a rest!


I know Mel....sometimes the brain runs away from you.....you gotta real it back in....or find a better "fisherman" to show/tell you how!!

You make "mental masturbation" sound bad!!! LOL
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/30/08 11:17 PM
grin grin
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 01:43 PM
Evening was quiet

I ordered Chinese. I called W to see if she had any requests...she was not all that interested but did eat what I got her. I had the kids grab a bunch of blankets to put in the livingroom so we could eat and have movie night. W and her friend ate in the kitchen. W spent the rest of the night in her room her friend was in there for awhile talking with her. I watched the movie, folded some clothes, the kids kinda lost interest and would come in and out of the room. Ws dad called And she chatted with him a bit, Ws friend left to go out and W spent the rest of the night in her room. She did come out to kiss the kids goodnight, I said goodnight to her when she went back in her room. She was briefly on her cell with someone, not sure who. I did manage to fold a couple baskets of laundry though.

Tonite her and some of her friends are going out for New Years, I am on emergency call so I will be at home with our kids and Ws BFs kids.

Been reading MortarMans husbands and wives thread. I am gonna print it out and leave it on my nightstand....very good info!!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 06:14 PM
Kinda feeling like a doormat....W has not actually communicated her actual plans for tonite. I want to email her and ask her....I have a feeling I am gonna get a "fu it's none of your business" reply.

Anyone have any ideas how I should approach this?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 07:35 PM
I know it seems dumb to ask advise about sending your own W an email....

I am thinking this

Subject. Tonite.

I have a couple stops to make on my way home from work. Let me know what your schedule is for tonite.

I don't know why I am nervous about sending this??...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 07:47 PM
Well, as long as you are her H, it is your damn business what she is doing. And most certainly since she is going out.. Are you babysitting so your W can go out and scrw the OM? Because that is absolutely unacceptable.

why in the world are you watching her friends kids?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 07:50 PM
Carp: what are your plans tonight?

WW: none of your business

Carp: I won't be available to babysit for you if you plan on commmitting adultery with the OM tonight, so I do need to know before I agree to watch the kids for you
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Well, as long as you are her H, it is your damn business what she is doing. And most certainly since she is going out.. Are you babysitting so your W can go out and scrw the OM? Because that is absolutely unacceptable.

why in the world are you watching her friends kids?

She is going out with a couple GFs. Her BF and kids have been staying at our house.

Sending mail now

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 08:07 PM
Her reply
Working till 5. Going out. We are leaving at 8
Quote
Her reply
Working till 5. Going out. We are leaving at 8

Carp's reply: Thanks. Do you have a sitter lined up because I have plans myself?


Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
Her reply
Working till 5. Going out. We are leaving at 8

Carp's reply: Thanks. Do you have a sitter lined up because I have plans myself?

You want me to throw that rite out there?? I was gonna reply with ...where? Who? When you gonna be home stuff.
I would just leave it with that. Don't answer anymore emails, let her scurry to fix her plans. You don't need to tell her WHAT your plans are... even if it's just a trip down the street to Starbucks. I personally wouldn't be babysitting for a WS, even if they are my kids. The whole point is to make it uncomfortable and throw as many wrenches in her plans as possible.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
I would just leave it with that. Don't answer anymore emails, let her scurry to fix her plans. You don't need to tell her WHAT your plans are... even if it's just a trip down the street to Starbucks. I personally wouldn't be babysitting for a WS, even if they are my kids. The whole point is to make it uncomfortable and throw as many wrenches in her plans as possible.

How about

8pm is to early. Push your time back an hour or so??
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
I would just leave it with that. Don't answer anymore emails, let her scurry to fix her plans. You don't need to tell her WHAT your plans are... even if it's just a trip down the street to Starbucks. I personally wouldn't be babysitting for a WS, even if they are my kids. The whole point is to make it uncomfortable and throw as many wrenches in her plans as possible.

How about

8pm is to early. Push your time back an hour or so??

What difference does that make?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 08:36 PM
you actually want me to tell her to find her own sitter? We did discuss it a few days ago.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:24 PM
Ok

Here's what I have come up with.
I want to reply

I am not sure how long my errands will take. If I am not home by 7 please make alternate arrangements until I get home.
I am gonnago shopping and get some new clothes. Head over by my dads, shower and change because I am not going home before my errands.

This plan puts ME incharge of my evening as far as when I return but also states I will be home.

I was trying to think of how my wife could use the answer "get your own sitter I have plans" against me. You gotta remember my W is fully lawyered up so ANYTHING negative for me=bad.

Thoughts? Comments?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:32 PM
"I need to know if your plans include a rendevous with your adultery partner, joe Scumbag"
Posted By: tnsr Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:32 PM
Go with princessmeggy's one-liner. Your email is way too wishy-washy.
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by tnsr
Go with princessmeggy's one-liner. Your email is way too wishy-washy.

Agreed. Why is it negative for you to have plans? She does. She doesn't need to know all the details of what you are doing. Remember, you are fighting a battle for your marriage! ML and PM have never given advice (that I've seen) that wasn't right on the money. I know it's hard, but the end result is worth it all. smile
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by tnsr
Go with princessmeggy's one-liner. Your email is way too wishy-washy.

Don't get me wrong...princessmeggys is sweet. But it says....I don't care about the kids they are your problem tonite.

Mine says....make your plans fit mine...I care about my kids and will be home.


Mels says.....I only wanna make sure joe scumbag ain't going!!
Posted By: tnsr Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:42 PM
You're missing the point. You shouldn't care what impression your email leaves on her. The email should simply throw a wrench into her plans and make her supremely uncomfortable. That's all. The fact that you are going to be with your kids is none of her business. Fight the affair.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:47 PM
Listen, your email misses the point. You need to find out if she is going out to commit adultery tonight because you will not be accommodating her adultery.

JUST ASK HER, CARP! for crying out loud, you yankees make me crazy! just say it! grumble
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Listen, your email misses the point. You need to find out if she is going out to commit adultery tonight because you will not be accommodating her adultery.

JUST ASK HER, CARP! for crying out loud, you yankees make me crazy! just say it! grumble

Blind faith here....Mels or Princess??

Let me know...I will send it then post her response.

I wait for a couple replies.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 09:54 PM
oh good grief...
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:01 PM
I don't know if she would really tell you the truth about whether the OM is going to be with her or not. However, it would make her supremely uncomfortable to have you ask her.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Verve
I don't know if she would really tell you the truth about whether the OM is going to be with her or not. However, it would make her supremely uncomfortable to have you ask her.

Exactly what I was thinking. WS lie all the time anyway!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:06 PM
Carp, am I missing something here? I thought the goal was to find out if she was going to be with the OM? Is this not the goal?

If you are not going to ASK, then how do you propose finding out?

I feel very much like I am wasting my time here once again.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:10 PM
Mel

The goal is to make this on MY terms. She will lie anyway. What am I gonna say......prove it?!
Originally Posted by Carp54
I was trying to think of how my wife could use the answer "get your own sitter I have plans" against me. You gotta remember my W is fully lawyered up so ANYTHING negative for me=bad.

Huh? She can go hang with friends and leave you to babysit and THAT can't be held against her? I don't get it.

I think ML is right too. You SHOULD confront her about her TRUE plans for tonight. Do you really want to babysit while she brings in the New Year with a NEW MAN? Why not just tell her you've just changed your mind. You're allowed you know.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mel

The goal is to make this on MY terms. She will lie anyway. What am I gonna say......prove it?!

Oh, I get it. The goal is to ANNOY HER for absolutely no purpose and still end up babysitting while she goes out and scrws the OM! it is just a GAME..

Sounds productive.............NOT! crazy

I guess I am not getting the point.
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:14 PM
Ok, you don't want to babysit so your W can continue the A and you don't think that she will tell you the truth if you ask her straight up. So, just tell her to find her own babysitter (as PM said) and let it go. You don't have to say anymore than that. It's not saying that you don't care about your kids, not at all. Stop overthinking things (I'm the queen of that and it sucks) and just send a message that is short, sweet, and to the point.

BTW, I was saying that asking her would make her uncomfortable, which is good, because she should be. smile

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:17 PM
This should have been settled about 3 hours ago. All these posts over this little issue is OVERKILL. If every little issue causes this much vacillation and indecision, then you are going to be spending most of your time spinning your wheels.

In the time we have wasted beating this to death, you could have found out by now and been well onto the next issue.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:18 PM
JUST ASK THE WOMAN!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:18 PM
Gonna send this mail

Is scumbag jones going with you tonite??

She probably won't reply at all

If she does or doesn't I will let you guys know.
She is at work for 45 more mins....if she does not reply then I will send a my errands will take longer then expected you should find a sitter till I be home.
If she doesn't reply to your question, tell her you'll take her non-reply as a yes. And then inform her that you will not be available to watch the kids tonight.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:24 PM
I apologize for my crankiness. I have a low threshhold for indecisiveness.
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
This should have been settled about 3 hours ago. All these posts over this little issue is OVERKILL. If every little issue causes this much vacillation and indecision, then you are going to be spending most of your time spinning your wheels.

In the time we have wasted beating this to death, you could have found out by now and been well onto the next issue.


True. By waiting until the last minute, you could very well have set it up so you are definitely babysitting while your wife is with the OM for the New Year.
Posted By: grindnfool Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Gonna send this mail

Is scumbag jones going with you tonite??

She probably won't reply at all

If she does or doesn't I will let you guys know.
She is at work for 45 more mins....if she does not reply then I will send a my errands will take longer then expected you should find a sitter till I be home.

I love email like the next guy. But, my impression of all these emails is that it makes you look weak and leaves a written trail (you seem very worried about those type of things)

Pick up the phone, call her, and ask what you want to know. Weed through her BS and come up with your own conclusion.

Start working from a position of strength and she will respect you, at least. All this email seems weak to me. My $0.02

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:31 PM
AGREE!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
If she doesn't reply to your question, tell her you'll take her non-reply as a yes. And then inform her that you will not be available to watch the kids tonight.

I like this!!

Gonna use that ! Everyone knows silence=agreeing. W and I have even had this conv.
I agree w/ GF.

All the emailing makes you look weak. I can almost see her rolling her eyes at you.

Call her and be FIRM and to the point.

Don't tell her what you need to do. She doesn't care one whit what you need to do.

Find out what is up and then tell her how it's gonna be.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
I agree w/ GF.

All the emailing makes you look weak. I can almost see her rolling her eyes at you.

Call her and be FIRM and to the point.

Don't tell her what you need to do. She doesn't care one whit what you need to do.

Find out what is up and then tell her how it's gonna be.

I agree with this statement. I have often told my W that email is to impersonal. But with the way things are....CYA!!

She did not reply to my question. I did send her the "silence=agreeing" answer and that my errands would take longer so find someone to watch the kids till I get home.
Quote
She did not reply to my question. I did send her the "silence=agreeing" answer and that my errands would take longer so find someone to watch the kids till I get home.

If "silence=agreeing" then why did you add the "I need to run errands" reason too?

The fact that she was going to be w/ OM was reason enough not to babysit the kids tonight.

Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 10:52 PM
*sigh* So you ARE going to watch the kids while she is with OM tonight? If silence = agreement, I thought your reply would be that she needs to find her own sitter? You are enabling her A by keeping the children so she can go have alone time with OM.

Do you think it is more honorable to follow through on your agreement to watch the kids, than it is to refuse to help her commit adultery???
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 11:02 PM
She replied to that.
My silence is because I don't have to respond to you about my personal business. The kids are taken care of.
Posted By: tnsr Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 11:08 PM
Pick up the phone and call her now. She owes you info on the sitters. Then do what Mel says, ask about OM. She's your wife so it is your business.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by tnsr
Pick up the phone and call her now. She owes you info on the sitters. Then do what Mel says, ask about OM. She's your wife so it is your business.

I will do this

Where are our kids at so I can pick them up when I am done with my errands?
If she does not answer I will not leave a message about OM but ask her to call me back with the details of the kids....then I will ask her about OM.
Posted By: tnsr Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by tnsr
Pick up the phone and call her now. She owes you info on the sitters. Then do what Mel says, ask about OM. She's your wife so it is your business.

I will do this

Where are our kids at so I can pick them up when I am done with my errands?
If she does not answer I will not leave a message about OM but ask her to call me back with the details of the kids....then I will ask her about OM.


Perfect & good luck.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 12/31/08 11:36 PM
voicemail
Quote
Where are our kids at so I can pick them up when I am done with my errands?

You don't need to tell her WHY you want to know where the kids will be.

You are their father.

You should always know where they are.

Stop explaining yourself to her.

Quote
voicemail

Get your kids a cell phone so you are never put in this position again.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 02:23 AM
After almost 2hrs of phone tag I got ahold of W. D12 is at friends D9 is at home.
Asked where they were going...she told me
Asked when they would be home.....none of my business....I said I was just asking you are my wife....she said she has a key....and that she is forced to be my wife.....I told her no one is forcing her......it's a choice....


She then commented on how quiet it was where is was....sounds real busy. She said I was sitting in my car wasting time. I replied that I had a 6pm appt that hot pushed back to 7:15.....and it was only 7pm....so yes I was sitting in my car. She again insisted that it was BS what I was doing...I was just wasting time. I just replied I doubt it.

I told her it was similar to her answer to my earlier question....which she replied it was none of my business what she is doing or who she is going with.....as long as the kids are taken care of and as far as her silence earlier she was at work and she doesn't need to play little petty back and forth games with me asking her questions....I said I am just asking questions I am your husband.....she said she does not have to respond unless it is about the kids and how she tells me this all the time.
She said it was very convienent that I had something to do and she took care of the kids stuff earlier. I references the earlier email. She complained about the time I sent it and how it wasn't earlier in the day....I said it was 2:30-3:00 and that I was just trying to get the "skinny" on things and how a guy can't ask his wife what's going on and how it's respectful just to say....hey I got this going on.

We had chatted briefly about some iTunes purchases today. She said D12 did not buy anything....maybe it was me...I commented how 1 of the programs was called fake a call (it's for the iPod touch it's a fake incoming call thing).

She then said I had all the info that I needed and that she was gonna go.

I then said that I presume that she was gonna be with OM and that I was sorry if she had to say that. She said it doesn't matter who she is gonna be with and then said her BFs name and another GFs name. She then said that if I don't believe her....and how I have all the info one every person in his life.....why don't I just call him and ask him what he is doing....I said that was a possibility....or maybe I should go over to his house....another possibility I said.
She then said how I have all the "stuff" to hide behind....I replied that I am not hiding behind anything I have the truth.
She then went into the hpv/pre cancerous thing and how I was insane and she was not and that there was only a possibility she could have and how my brain was not processing things correctly...I replied that it's pretty appaling when you find out your wife got a disease from someone and now she might have cancer...she said of course there is no proof that he did and I am telling everyone that he did...I asked who else could it have been?? She says I don't know maybe you Carp!! I said of I could go get a test I would. She said maybe it's been dormant for years and blamed it on someone I knew years ago (this has been common lately....that I am sleeping with EVERY female friend we have...even my cousins wife...and her BF)....I shouldn't be accusing people and slandering them and confront people head on...I replied that I think I may.
A little info for you all...we did have a "false recovery" period where my wrote a beautiful letter about the whole affair. 1 part she talks about the STD. She actually wrote "I have actually been hoping I have cancer. Would serve me right. I cannot believe that I put you at risk for an STD!!! How disgusting!". 1 dayaybe I will type the whole letter...it's very touching....she later said it was all a lie.

Back to the phone call....

She said I should confront him...it's been 6 months and I you are a coward and a half....you sent a letter to his 88 year old grandmother....I said that's his problem for hurting his grandmother he should have not lies to her....I said that is true isn't it...she said no it was me...I said all I did was tell her the truth....she said no you didn't....you said he gave me an STD and how our family is suffering....and how Ws and his relationship will never go anywhere because my children and our family will hate him....she said that's so full of [censored]...I reies why is that not full of [censored]? She then said this was a bad conversation...I asked why.

Gonna stop now...this is 6 mins into a twelve minute conversation.

She said I should confront him...it's been 6 months and I you are a coward and a half.

You should say he knows where I live....If I hunt him down and then beat the crap out of him..it is legally premediated but if he comes to me or I see him somewhere I could claim I mentally snapped(Temporay Insanity Defense) and I won't go to jail. Just make sure you do this verbally and not via email so no trace.

Just a thought!!! wink
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 03:21 AM
Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
She said I should confront him...it's been 6 months and I you are a coward and a half.

You should say he knows where I live....If I hunt him down and then beat the crap out of him..it is legally premediated but if he comes to me or I see him somewhere I could claim I mentally snapped(Temporay Insanity Defense) and I won't go to jail. Just make sure you do this verbally and not via email so no trace.

Just a thought!!! wink

She has said this a few times so either
1. He is a sissy
2. It's a trap
3. My W will come crawling back to me if I whip his ars!!
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 03:41 AM
She's trying to push your buttons, that's all. It's a defense mechanism because, IMO, in the back of her mind (though she probably doesn't even realize it), she knows what she is doing and has done is wrong.

So, don't worry over that. It's all button pushing. Try your best not to let her do it. I would ask what's so heroic about being with another man's wife.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 04:43 AM
I think I am past the button pushing stage. I think I did quite well in the conv overall. I was calm, I don't think sarcastic. I have to listen to it again. She on the other hand was full of sarcasm!! To tired to transcribe the rest.

Happy New Year and goodnight. I will find some time tomorrow for the rest.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 05:02 PM
Here I sit on New Years day me and my 2 girls. D12 asked where mom was...I don't know was my reply. D9 and I watched some neighborhood fireworks from my balcony in my bedroom. I called D12, who was down the street at her BFs house, to wish her happy new year and tell her I love her. W called the house about 12:30 but all the phones were on a different floor so no answer/message from her.

When I woke up this morning D9 was asleep next to me all curled up in her powerpuff girl blanket. I went down to start coffee and see who was home....obviously no one else. I sent W a text at about 7:45am....happy new year...bring home cat food please. He reply...U2 got it already.
Gonna hit the shower and take my girls out for breakfast....at least someone is thinking about them.
Originally Posted by Carp54
She said I should confront him...it's been 6 months and I you are a coward and a half....

Honestly, WHY would you want to remain M'd to ANYONE who would display this level of disrespect to you???

How do you look at yourself in the mirror of a morning ... KNOWING that you simply REFUSE to stand up for yourself???

Some WW's simply aren't worth the effort, and you seem to have one.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by MyRevelation
Originally Posted by Carp54
She said I should confront him...it's been 6 months and I you are a coward and a half....

Honestly, WHY would you want to remain M'd to ANYONE who would display this level of disrespect to you???

How do you look at yourself in the mirror of a morning ... KNOWING that you simply REFUSE to stand up for yourself???

Some WW's simply aren't worth the effort, and you seem to have one.

Voilence is not the answer....it's probably a trap to get me to do something that will look bad. Standing up for myself to me means taking the high road in this whole sitch.

Why would I want to stay married?? I don't even have a real answer anymore....I used to say I would hold out for my kids and try 1 last time for them...that's not even a good enough reason anymore.

I am quickly approaching the point where I am gonna come home one day early....pack up her chit....drop it on his porch...and not say a word about it.

Legal stuff is in process....I don't have any way to speed things up.

The amount of negative documentation on her and positive for myself is huge.

I want to walk up to her and say....you have made this very easy for me...why do you need to wait for some official papers....take your stuff and go to him if that's what you want. She will of course counter with....I am not divorcing the kids just you....I will respond with....you coulda fooled me....if that was the case then EVERY action you have made you should have said to yourself....is this gonna be best for the kids??
Originally Posted by Carp54
Voilence is not the answer....it's probably a trap to get me to do something that will look bad. Standing up for myself to me means taking the high road in this whole sitch.

I wasn't really advocating violence in your situation ... I would have no problem with it for myself, but I understand every one of us has different personalities for dealing with conflict.

What I meant by "standing up for yourself" was where you went with the last part of your post. To me "standing up for yourself" is as you said "come home one day early....pack up her chit....drop it on his porch...and not say a word about it."

I just meant that no man should have to tolerate the level of disrespect you are being shown, and the action you described above would be an appropriate response to her disrespectful treatment of you.

GOOD LUCK!!!
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am quickly approaching the point where I am gonna come home one day early....pack up her chit....drop it on his porch...and not say a word about it.

This sounds like an excellent idea! Change the locks to your home also.

I would check with your lawyer and make sure there would be no legal ramifications (kids, etc) with this beforehand.
Originally Posted by Verve
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am quickly approaching the point where I am gonna come home one day early....pack up her chit....drop it on his porch...and not say a word about it.

This sounds like an excellent idea! Change the locks to your home also.

I would check with your lawyer and make sure there would be no legal ramifications (kids, etc) with this beforehand.

The day you do this will be the day she begins to respect you.

Texting her to wish her a HNY when she's probably in bed w/ OM just ain't gonna do it.
Posted By: grindnfool Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
The day you do this will be the day she begins to respect you.

Texting her to wish her a HNY when she's probably in bed w/ OM just ain't gonna do it.

I second this sentiment

Also, having her face real bills, responsibilities, etc. seems in order to me. Stop sheltering her and make her accountable. You can't let her cake eat and expect to stay married. Pick some boundaries and enforce them. (For me, her going out New Years all night would earn the stuff on the porch. Or call the crazy a$$ uncle to pick it up)

It seems she is forcing this to save your marraige. I feel very sorry for you and your girls.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 08:53 PM
carp, along with the others, i am quite horrified at the disrespect and flagrant adultery your wife displays. She lives in your home but carries on a like an alley cat in heat right in front of your kids. And no one says or does a damn thing. She goes out on dates with her boyfriend, calls him from your home - she openly flaunts her adultery in front of you and your kids.

The lessons your kids are learning are just terrible. They are being taught that wrong is right and that it is ok to tolerate abuse without protest. It is clear that your wife believes you will do nothing to stop her and as such, is in full cakeeating mode. She has all the benefits of a married woman while carrying on like a single woman, corrupting her children.

It is a rare thing to see an adulterer who is this flagrant. This bespeaks a level of hostility and disrespect that we don't often see.

What is being done about this, carp? How will you get her out of the house so you can go into Plan B?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
carp, along with the others, i am quite horrified at the disrespect and flagrant adultery your wife displays. She lives in your home but carries on a like an alley cat in heat right in front of your kids. And no one says or does a damn thing. She goes out on dates with her boyfriend, calls him from your home - she openly flaunts her adultery in front of you and your kids.

The lessons your kids are learning are just terrible. They are being taught that wrong is right and that it is ok to tolerate abuse without protest. It is clear that your wife believes you will do nothing to stop her and as such, is in full cakeeating mode. She has all the benefits of a married woman while carrying on like a single woman, corrupting her children.

It is a rare thing to see an adulterer who is this flagrant. This bespeaks a level of hostility and disrespect that we don't often see.

What is being done about this, carp? How will you get her out of the house so you can go into Plan B?

Excellent question Mel....we all know no matter what I ask her she will lie...even if she doesn't I can't believe her anyway. I feel like I need to express myself to her....not about my plans bit about what I think/feel. Of course I have done this in the past to no results/poor results. I have gotten her to break down before and cry/say she would say....a few days or even hours later she would be back to her ways....it sucked.
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 10:34 PM
You didn't answer her question. What are you doing to change the situation?
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 10:49 PM
She needs to know/feel the repercussions of her actions. Right now she is living as she always has, in a home where she is comfortable with you paying the bills. She is able to come and go as she pleases and no one does anything about it. It's almost like she is a teenager getting to do what adults do, does that make sense?

Seriously, Melody has it right, what are you going to do about it?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/01/09 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Excellent question Mel....we all know no matter what I ask her she will lie...even if she doesn't I can't believe her anyway. I feel like I need to express myself to her....not about my plans bit about what I think/feel. Of course I have done this in the past to no results/poor results. I have gotten her to break down before and cry/say she would say....a few days or even hours later she would be back to her ways....it sucked.

Carp, I am not talking about what HER PLANS are, I already know her plans. Her plan is to continue to have all the benefits of marriage while she cats around like a single person and corrupts your children and causes you extreme emotional pain. Her plan is walk all over you.

What are YOU doing to get her out and protect your kids? Someone needs to step up to the plate here and protect your kids from her. She is doing nothing more than cakeeating. This is one of the worst cases I have seen.

The next worse one was Steve's wife and his 18 year old DD got so damn sick of it that she took matters in her own hands and kicked her mother out herself. NO adult would take control, so she did. Is there an adult in the house?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 11:22 AM
Thanks for all your comments/thoughts/ideas

I have done so much already I am running out of ideas

She pays to live at home
She pays all her own car payments, ins, phone bill, etc
I have filed for D with custody
I have done the nuclear exposure
I am monitoring all pc activity at home

Kicking her out would be great
Dropping her stuff at OMs house would be great

I have to find legit ways to get rid of her

I have done a "mini" plan B...more of a silent treatment for a few days and she notices it.

Keep up with the ideas......
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 03:09 PM
Carp,

Listen. I know where you are at. She is running around, doing all of the things Melody said. You have done many things you were supposed to do, and she still seems to be flagrant about it. Plus, you dont know how to get her out, as there is a legal component to that.

So, you are scratching your head wondering what to do, right?

Okay, you need some battle plans. First off, you need to find out what she is doing. Why? Because she thinks she can do as she wants to, and it is still secret.

I had Army buddies, my brothers, etc. follow her around. Take shifts for a few weeks. They enjoyed doing the covert stuff. They would document where she went with whom. They would take pictures of them going in and out of the Troll's house, etc. And I would get a call or email with where she was.

Added to this, I put a GPS tracker on her car, where I could follow at times or at least get the info of where she was.

Now, what did I do with all of this info? Well, first off, I live in Virginia which is a fault state. Adultery (and even fornication) are Class 4 misdemeanors. So, I was compiling this information to use against her in court.

Second, I compiled this for the custody hearing. Now, adultery in and of itself usually is not admissable for the custody hearing. That is unless it has affected the children!. So, while I am documenting EVERYTHING (including what the children say and do), I use the information I have to show a pattern of neglect by my wife, where she spends most of her time with the OM, etc. I had everything documented, to show where I was, where the kids were, where she was and what she was doing. And showing how the kids were being affected by her not being there. Judges do not like WSs that put the paramour before their kids!

Lastly, I compiled the information and used it to make her uncomfortable. How? well, take what happened just now with you. If you had intel on where and what she did all night, then once she returns, you can say "well, the kids missed you last night while you slept over at the OMs." Her response "You have no idea where I went last night. I actually was over at my GF's house after the party." Your response: "Yes that is true. But then the OM came by and picked you up and you spent the night at his place."

Of course, it will be at this point that her head will spin around and she will float off the floor. "Are you spying on me...following me?" Your response "You are my wife. I know everything that you do." And leave it at that.

You dont discuss everything you know. You make her think she is being followed, the room is bugged, etc. My wife thought she had 24/7 PIs after her, that the OM's house had bugs and cameras, etc. You see, with just a little knowledge, you can make their imaginations go wild.

Now, when your kids ask her once she returns home "where were you, Mommy?" She will respond: "I was at my GFs house. Did you have a good New Years?" You can then chime in with "Kids, your Mom spent the night at the OM's house."

You see, the light of exposure and continued exposure makes things more uncomfortable. If she thinks that everytime she comes home, her actions will be brought up for review, home is going to be a hostile place for her. Not because her home is a hostile place, but because her actions make it so.

My wife's attorney asked me in a deposition once, after seeing the mounds of intel I had on her, "Dont you believe your wife should have privacy? Doesnt everyone deserve privacy?" My response was: "Sure, she deserves privacy. When she goes to the bathroom, she should have the right to shut the door in that private moment. But, in a marriage, NO ONE has a right to secrecy." That shut him up!

How else to shine light on the vampires? Well, I think I read that you dont sleep in the marital bed, am I right? If true...then get your butt back into your bed! Do not let her keep you out of it or lock you out. It is your bed. You are not the one soiling that bed, she is. Now of course, her head will again spin when she sees you laying in that bed. She will scream at you to get out of the bed. Do not budge!! Make her sleep on the couch or even better...at the OM's house.

If she locks you out? next day, buy a door knob that doesnt have a lock on it, install it on the bedroom door, and then sleep in your bed.

Now, due to experience (unfortunately), I have to warn you. WSs, especially WWs, will use this as an excuse to call the cops and accuse you of all sorts of things (abuse, etc) in order to get them to throw you out. You MUST protect yourself. The first thing is to continue to document EVERYTHING. The second is to buy 2-3 of the voice activated digital recorders (handheld) and place in various places (including the bedroom) around the house. Some of them will record all day, only when someone is talking.

At night or whenever she isnt there, you get them, connect to your computer, upload the days intel, and save. Then erase off the recorders and place back in their hiding spots (hide them good, but where they will pick up what you want to hear).

Now, how will this help? Well, when the cops are called,, she will be blathering on about how you shoved her or something up in the bedroom. You ask one ofthe officers to come with you...you go to the bedroom, pull out the recorder and have him listen in to what happened. He will hear you trying to go to bed, your wife losing her mind, she threatening to call the cops, you saying that you arent doing anything but laying in bed trying to go to sleep, and her saying that it wont matter because they will believe her.

Once the officer has that, then he can write in his report what the truth is...and you wont be charged with anything. When you go to custody and divorce hearings, to have police reports backing up what you have been saying...is huge. And makes your wife look like a liar. Which is what she will have been doing.

I am a former inspector general with the Army. Once way to get people to break down and open up is what I call the slow drip of truth. What we would do is put out some truth and then the other perso nwould respond (and try to lie). We would then put out some more, but just enough to refute what they had said. They will now be nervous because they have been caught in a lie, but they erronously believe we have told them all of the stuff we had on him. So, they come up with a second lie. Well, then we let go a little more information, just enough to refute that lie.

After we do that 2-3 times, most people are usually broken down and will begin spilling the beans! And never did they know all of what we knew. Many times, they would begin spilling the beans about stuff we didnt even know about!!

What this long post is trying to do is to make you start taking the battle to her. She was out all night, and you ask her via text where she is because the kids missed her...and oh by the way, bring home cat food. Huh? The correct text (which you would also document) is "Where you all night? The kids have wondered where you were. I told them you were at the OM's house." Dont ask her to get catfood, that just allows her to change the subject!

You must keep the sordid affair front and center constantly. You must keep her uncomfortable at this point. Dont be threatening (never threaten anything...just do!). Be calm and in control. Shoot, one night when she was ranting, and actually hit me in front of the kids, I immediately grabbed them and left and spent the night at a friends house down the street. The next day, we came home. I documented that I had left because of the physical violence shown by her in front of the kids.

Carp, there is so much you can do. But you are letting everything be done to you. You are not in control of this situation, you are reacting to the situation.

You can now take control. But that wil lrequire a steady had. And doing many of the things I have listed here (plus more).
Excellent post MM!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 03:35 PM
MortarMan

Thx for the info

I am in the marital bed!! I even bought all new sheets blankets etc. She was furious!!


I am actively doing some things....but not everything.
PC...we had 2 and now 1 is "broke". The only 1 we have is in my room and monitored.

Voice recorders....not enough of them. I have not shared 1 bit of what I have recorded but it is saved.

GPS for car will be this weekends purchase. I have read about phones that can be checked online.

I have mentioned some things about what I have overheard 1 nite when she was on phone with OM and now she thinks the house is bugged.


Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Excellent post MM!

Thanks! blush
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 03:38 PM
Good to hear that she thinks it is bugged! That will make her uncomfortable in the house.

Next thing is to find out where she is going, with whom and how long. To help show how much time she is with OM versus the kids. And to be able to leak information that will make her think no matter where she goes, it is exposed.

What have you done in regards to the OM (have you talked to him)?

Also, have you filed anything with the courts?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Good to hear that she thinks it is bugged! That will make her uncomfortable in the house.

Next thing is to find out where she is going, with whom and how long. To help show how much time she is with OM versus the kids. And to be able to leak information that will make her think no matter where she goes, it is exposed.

What have you done in regards to the OM (have you talked to him)?

Also, have you filed anything with the courts?

My journaling over the past 4 months is extensive. It's not all W did this W did that. There is a lot of positives for me

I have not confronted OM except via exposure to his family

Legal action against him is coming soon....waiting for last puzzle piece to get to me.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Good to hear that she thinks it is bugged! That will make her uncomfortable in the house.

Next thing is to find out where she is going, with whom and how long. To help show how much time she is with OM versus the kids. And to be able to leak information that will make her think no matter where she goes, it is exposed.

What have you done in regards to the OM (have you talked to him)?

Also, have you filed anything with the courts?

My journaling over the past 4 months is extensive. It's not all W did this W did that. There is a lot of positives for me

I have not confronted OM except via exposure to his family

Legal action against him is coming soon....waiting for last puzzle piece to get to me.

Good.

I would have had that conversation with him, though. So, he could hear in your voice how serious you are about protecting your family.

One conversation I would have with my wife in the middle of our mess was how things were NOT going to be if she left and ended up with the OM. We would NOT have joint birthday parties for the kids (if the OM would be there...even if she had married him). We would NOT do anything jointly with the kids. Stuff like that. That burned her up, as she thought that after the anger and hurt wore off, that I would just go along with things. I made her understand that I would NEVER go along with things.

She even heard from me (and found out after our custody hearing) that I wouldnt even talk with her. I went completely dark. But before that, I had described how things would be. We would exchange info about the kids via voicemail or email, except in emergencies. Well, I went dark after that custody hearing and over a 5 month period, I talked to her three times. And all of those were mistakes by me, in that I accidentally answered the phone without checking the caller ID first.

She has a picture in her head of how things are going to be. You need to constantly be shining light on that picture, showing how it will never be that way.

I actually one day sat down and mapped out (and left a copy "accidentally" for her) under a 50-50 custody deal, how much time overall she would have with the kids (and me as well). I showed our 6 year old son, with twelve years left before he graduated. I then showed that on a 50-50 deal, she would miss out on a total of 6 years of the next twelve of his life...and that some other woman would have as much time (6 years) with him as her.

That was a reality check for her! It is a big thing that weighed on her. Now, in actuality, our custody ruling had it more like 65% with me and 35% with her. Which meant that out of those twelve years, she would only spend 4.2 years with him.

Once the reality of the situation was put in front of her, then what the OM was asking her to do (leave and give up some or all of your time with your kids) became unbearable!

So, you might put something together like that...and "accidentally" leave it out. Dont reference her in it. Reference yourself (e.g. I am going to miss out on my son's life 6 of the next 12 years).
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 06:42 PM
Lotsa good stuff again MM.

Took the kids to a movie last night. Had my "lil buddy" running for a couple hours while we were gone.
W actually feels sick just being by me/at home. Of course I am making her like that!! LOL

Sent her a "don't wait for me for dinner" email earlier so I can hit a couple stores. Gonna grab a phone and a couple more DVRs. Then I am gonna hit sears or something, grab some new clothes, get a haircut, stop by my dads for a shower and THEN go home!!

Texted Ws BFF....who hates OM.... I asked her if W is pissed at me....she hates you and thinks you are crazy was her reply. I asked BFF if she can think of 1 thing I have done that is crazy....got married LOL...was her answer.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/02/09 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Lotsa good stuff again MM.

Took the kids to a movie last night. Had my "lil buddy" running for a couple hours while we were gone.
W actually feels sick just being by me/at home. Of course I am making her like that!! LOL

Of course you do!

Quote
Sent her a "don't wait for me for dinner" email earlier so I can hit a couple stores. Gonna grab a phone and a couple more DVRs. Then I am gonna hit sears or something, grab some new clothes, get a haircut, stop by my dads for a shower and THEN go home!!

Texted Ws BFF....who hates OM.... I asked her if W is pissed at me....she hates you and thinks you are crazy was her reply. I asked BFF if she can think of 1 thing I have done that is crazy....got married LOL...was her answer.

My wife said the same things. Recently, she brought it up again as we talked. She said "I thought you were crazy, with all of the talk about us being family, about trying to hold onto the marriage, etc. But, I realized that by trusting God's promise that if you named it, that He would back you up, that it came true."

Not just my wife thought I was crazy! So many around me did. But I just kept saying and doing what I knew to be right. And one day she woke up to see I wasnt so crazy afterall!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/03/09 02:33 PM
Had to work late last night

Still managed to hit the store and get some goodies!!
2 DVRs with vox that have 61 hrs of record time and auto start/stop
A $15 boost mobile phone with gps. I installed some software on it that allows me to track the phone from this phone with 5min updates. It's a 3rd party software that uploads to a seperate server that you check online. I signed up for a month free and it's $6 a month after that.

1 dvr is in the cave all sounds are off.
1 dvr will go in her car with the phone. I will have to attach them under the seat somehow.

How often do you guys think I should confront her with what info I have??


Well after you get the info from all the deivces, you should only expose info you could have gotten from other means. You don't want her thinking he could have only got that if he had something in the car etc. Unless you got a whopper of a smoking gun!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/03/09 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
Well after you get the info from all the deivces, you should only expose info you could have gotten from other means. You don't want her thinking he could have only got that if he had something in the car etc. Unless you got a whopper of a smoking gun!!

Kinda figures that was the way to go. I will use the "somebody saw you" line if that stuff comes up.
Posted By: tnsr Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/03/09 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Had to work late last night

A $15 boost mobile phone with gps. I installed some software on it that allows me to track the phone from this phone with 5min updates. It's a 3rd party software that uploads to a seperate server that you check online. I signed up for a month free and it's $6 a month after that.

What specifically did you buy? I'm looking for something similar.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/03/09 05:07 PM
Motorola model i425e. It was $15 with $5 free airtime. The gps is included I think. I will have to check my billing later today.
Posted By: Verve Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 02:09 AM
Be careful though. Is this okay to do?

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Verve
Be careful though. Is this okay to do?

Not sure.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Verve
Be careful though. Is this okay to do?

huh?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 03:37 PM
Left a dvr running while I was gone last night.

Ws work will review the situation this week.

OMs parents are not happy about what he is doing. He told them our marriage is over.

OM was with my W shopping on Saturday.

Some of OMs family feels sorry for my W. Some of them are not to happy.

She mentioned that our kids know....but she doesn't seem to be phased by it.

Everyone that knows about the letters seems to think it was crazy.

Still got more to review


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Ms parents are not happy about what he is doing. He told them our marriage is over.

Carp, this is one reason it is a good idea to have a conversation with the OM's parents. He has lied to them to minimize the situation. If you spoke to them you could clear up the lies and ask for their help.

Even so, I suspect your wife has become so entitled and so brazen that it will take legal action and a dark Plan B to blast this affair. She feels fully entitled to carry on her affair from your home and is quite brazen about it.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Ms parents are not happy about what he is doing. He told them our marriage is over.

Carp, this is one reason it is a good idea to have a conversation with the OM's parents. He has lied to them to minimize the situation. If you spoke to them you could clear up the lies and ask for their help.

Even so, I suspect your wife has become so entitled and so brazen that it will take legal action and a dark Plan B to blast this affair. She feels fully entitled to carry on her affair from your home and is quite brazen about it.

Yup to all of it!!
Posted By: doingfine Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 04:32 PM
I'm butten in here, I just wanted to say good luck and I am sorry you have to go through all of this.
don't disclose how you got your information.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by doingfine
I'm butten in here, I just wanted to say good luck and I am sorry you have to go through all of this.
don't disclose how you got your information.

Definitely will never disclose. I will probably say that one of our friends saw them at the store yesterday.
Posted By: doingfine Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/04/09 06:41 PM
ok, I just didn't want you to disclose where your info came from, it just makes them go more underground with the behavior, even when you say someone saw them, they still go underground, see if you can get away with "cause I know" if you have something tangible that can't be denied then they know you know for sure, am I making sense? geesh I confuse myself sometimes.
Quote
Definitely will never disclose. I will probably say that one of our friends saw them at the store yesterday.

I like MM's advice to you..

WW: How do you know?

You: "You are my wife, I know everything you do."

She'll wonder whether someone saw her. Or whether you have someone following her. Let her wonder.

Also, I like the other advice MM gave you about telling her when the kids ask where she is you reply "she's w/ the OM."

That way, she will start telling you where she is going and w/ whom she will be w/. No more,"It's none of your business." crap. Of course she will lie when she is w/ OM, but you will find out about it and let her know you know.

You are getting good intel... you are finding out where the weak spots are. It is important to your WW that OM's family accepts her. So definitely call OM's parents and ask them to help you.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 12:21 AM
I confronted W about the shopping trip. She was really angry. She was in the bathroom and tried to close the door. I told her she could when I was done talking. She spouted off about privacy etc. I had my dvr in my pocket the whole time just incase. She actually called the police!!
Cops come and chat with me outside and her inside. I tell them I recorded the whole thing if they wanted to hear..they declined. I told them what was happening as far as the A and the D proceedings. They ask me I had somewhere to go for the night...I said not really. We agreed that W would leave for a few hours and the so would I after that.

W comes back from shopping and I tell her I am leaving for a few hours.
She starts in with the following.

Me...I will be back in a few hours
Her....he said that you agreed to come back tomorrow.
Me....I said I never agreed to that we can call them back if you want I don't have any problem with that nobody has any rite to make anybody leave.
Her...everything is crazy around here and it is gonna end in the next few days
Me...I couldn't agree more
Her....I can do wahtever I want to in my own house....whatever I want
Me....as long as you act respectful and mature I cannot disagree
Her....I don't have to give you any respect. I respect my children and that's why she puts up with every single torturous thing you are doing to me
Me...I am not torturing anybody
Her.....yes you are
Me....I am only doing what is rite
Her....yes you are you are mentally torturing me
Me....you can leave I haven't said that you can't leave
Her....that's fine the girls and I will leave while you are gone
Me...I am not agreeing to that
Her....it doesn't matter you don't have to agree
Me.....I am just telling you I do not agree
Her....whatever you say you do not have to agree
Her.....once things are settled and done you will get the same visitation we agreed on
Me....rite every other weekend for you and all that stuff that's laid out in the papers. Until then everybody lives here.
Her...I mean it. I feel unsafe being here and I am worried about my children safety I'm leaving.
Me....you can leave
Her.....I'm leaving and I'm taking them with me
Me...then I will see you tomorrow in court
Her...for what. I'm their mother
Me....status quo
Me....I didn't threaten anybody
Her.....they and 2 therapists that have dealt with me personally agree that it's best for them to not be in this household with you
Me.... I agree it's not best for all four of us to be here rite now but you don't want to leave
Her....they and I are leaving. I am taking my children and leaving
Me....then I will see you in court tomorrow.
Her....try that
Me....I don't have to try
Her.....you can't do chit your so full of it you can't do anything. The reason your doing half of the things your doing is because you are set in your place and your not going to get them and your not going to get the things that you want
Me...if we are gonna talk like this we need to go outside
Her...asks D to leave other room and go upstairs
Her....why are you pulling all these desperate desperate things because you are unstable and you are having a hard time dealing with how things are actually going to be
Me...I am not having a hard time dealing with it
Her.... That's why you do the things that you do
Me.... I made a plan and I am following my plan
Her... Your last ditch desperate effort
Me....there's nothing desperate
Her...you don't believe that there is nothing desperate but everybody else everybody
Me.....everyone who?? People that enable people to have affairs? I don't take what those people say with a grain of salt.
Her....my family....certain members of your family and the therapists and her lawyer
Me....when 1 of them comes up to me and says I don't think you should have done that I think you are desperate then ok. But so far I have had no one but chicken [censored] say let your wife go and I tell them she won't go.
Her....because I'm told legally me and the children have to stay until it's time to go
Me....rite that's what I have been told I cannot force you to leave
Her...no you can't
Me...whatever I'm doing for me and the kids is fine
Her....but the mental torture that your doing to me I have basis now
Me....I am not mentally torturing you
Her...I has basis to leave
Me....then you can leave
Her....and take them with me I am worried about their mental health
Me...I am too I worried about them being exposed to him and the way you are doing things and the moral decisions you are making
Her....I am not doing anything bad and because you are not with me is the one problem
Me...no just the things that they will be exposed to are bothering me
Her....well too bad the bottom line in the way that the courts work is that they go with their mother
Me....then I will see you in court. I will stay out till after 8pm I won't deny your time here that's fine
Her....that's fine I am going to visit sick family this evening
Me...let me have their name and phone number
Her...my grandma
Me...I will call and ask if you are there
Her...no problem
Me....the kids have school tomorrow so they have to be back
Her...rite they will be back in the morning and they will go to school
Me...that's rite and I will be here when you get here
Her...your gonna take off work tomorrow
Me....I have to make sure they go to schoolbexause I don't know if you will come back
Her....rite
Me...see it works both ways
Her...your playing games
Me...there is no game
Her....you are playing the game you are mentally unstable
Me....I am not unstable
Her...you have got a disassociative personality rite now
Me...A what
Her...you are only going to a certain degree of reality you are not processing anything properly
Me...I know all the reality
Her...no your not
Me....according to who? You? A person who's been living a fantasy for over a year?
Her....she names our MC her IC the kids C
Me...ok
Her....it's it's it's upsetting
Me....your rite it's terribly upsetting to me to have to live with what your doing to us everyday
Her....I am doing nothing to my children my children are aware of everything that I am doing and the reasons why I am doing them
Me....it's terrible that I am gonna have to deal with the fallout from what your doing for the rest of their lives
Her....your dealing with the fallout of your psychosis
Me....I don't have any psychosis
Her....mocking my yelling up to the kids to see if they wanted to go shopping with her earlier.
Me ...I was just yelling to them to see if they wanted to go with you
Her....ok then you say we can all go together lime a family
Me...that's fine
Her...we aren't a family anymore I am not any part of your life
Me....you are still my wife but you can leave the parts that you don't want anymore
Her.....the parts that I want are going with me.
Me....you still have all the legal rights that you have and that's not gonna change
Her...that's rite and their mine and their going to be with me and you play this game with me all the time and I'm already feeding the dog too much I done talking to you
Me...that's fine I don't have anything else to talk about
Her...something about my dilusions(sp?)
Me....there no dilusions you are a cheater and a liar (bad?)
Her... I hate you and that's why I don't wanna be with you
Me...that's fine. Like I told your uncle she won't leave.
Her....because your nuts. What's the next thing you are gonna do show up at my work with a gun tomorrow?
Me...no
Her....there are a lotta people worried about your instability
Me...then they can come here and talk to me if they got the balls or call me
Her...you mean writing letters is balls? Going on the Internet is ballsy? You have never picked up the telephone 1 time to confront the person who you think is causing this problem
Me....I don't need to pick up the phone when I see him in court as well
Her...you never actually stood and did enough enough to actually accuse me of all this back door bullchit
Me....there is no backdoor bullchit
Her...really? Where do you get all your info? Looking thru my stuff?
Me...what info?
Her...I don't know all the info you have all the time? Someone saw us shopping? Where?
Me...it's my job as a husband to know
Her....Wow mmmhmmm sure they did
We chat about her locking her keys in her car yesterday and how she got in it etc
Her....you have absolutely nothing but a psychotic last minute scramble
Me...I don't need anything
Her...to try to save. You honestly think I want you? That the things that your doing are going to 1 day click in my head and I am gonna say all these psychotic damaging things that he did to me wow he must really love me
Me...almost like the psychotic damaging things you did to our family for years why would I take you back
Her....it's years now
Me....July 2007 we are going over 1 year why would I take you back
Her....I've done (mumble) your the one doing this because you want me back that's what you told my friends yesterday that's what you told me new years eve
Me....there's always a chance
Her....there is never a chance
Me....for you there won't be and that's the way you are gonna think and that's fine and like I said I am gonna do everything I can for my family and myself and there is nothing else I can do. If you don't want a part of that that's fine
Her.....I never ever if a looking at you this much that that I have to deal with you makes me physically Ill
Me....yes I know the feeling exactly
Her....it makes me physically sick
Me....I know I know exactly how it feels
Her....because you are so sick and unstable in your head
Me....I know how that feels I look at you and I have the same feelings. The feelings are mutual you can't imagine that they are not. I will be back later and you will be? If your going somewhere you gotta leave me a note or something
Her....why? This is my house I am your wife I don't have to tell you where I am going
Me.....well ya know secrets aren't good for a marriage
Her....loony laugh
Me....well there aren't very many secrets anymore
Her...whatever you say


11 min conversation
I am out and about and will call home around 8 to see who is there and then go home.



Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 12:37 AM
I hope he has his computer password protected so she doesn't come here and find this.

Carp, can I suggest that you stop arguing with an insane woman? That is getting you absolutely nowhere.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I hope he has his computer password protected so she doesn't come here and find this.

Carp, can I suggest that you stop arguing with an insane woman? That is getting you absolutely nowhere.

Mel
I have never made 1 post from our family PC!

Wasn't really argueing. I was calm, I never yelled.

Quote
I confronted W about the shopping trip. She was really angry. She was in the bathroom and tried to close the door. I told her she could when I was done talking. She spouted off about privacy etc.

There was no need to CONFRONT her.

You already know she's having an A. All you needed to do was tell her you knew she went shopping w/OM.

Not allowing her to close the bathroom door was a bad idea.

Defintely not part of Plan A.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 12:49 AM
Carp, my friend, that was an argument. And a complete waste of time. Never argue with an insane person! laugh
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Quote
I confronted W about the shopping trip. She was really angry. She was in the bathroom and tried to close the door. I told her she could when I was done talking. She spouted off about privacy etc.

There was no need to CONFRONT her.

You already know she's having an A. All you needed to do was tell her you knew she went shopping w/OM.

Not allowing her to close the bathroom door was a bad idea.

Defintely not part of Plan A.

True Mel. My plan A looks more like plan "stick it yer face carp".
Her strategy is clearly to show you as being mentally ill or at least dangerous. Be careful!! The bathroom deal will be used in court...not good. She might use the police info for a restraining order to keep you out of the house and/or away from her and the kids. Make sure your lawyer is up to speed.
The bathroom thing really bothers me.

Why did you choose to "confront" her there?

Were you having an argument and she went in there to get away from you?

Why did you prevent her from closing the door? Did you enter the BR?

One night after my sister's XH, who at the time was her WH, got really angry, he forced his way into her bedroom. She called the police, they asked him to leave for a while... he agreed to sleep somewhere else for the night.

and the next day she was able to get a RO.
I bet she and the kids won't be there when you get back tonight.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 11:23 AM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
The bathroom thing really bothers me.

Why did you choose to "confront" her there?

Were you having an argument and she went in there to get away from you?

Why did you prevent her from closing the door? Did you enter the BR?

One night after my sister's XH, who at the time was her WH, got really angry, he forced his way into her bedroom. She called the police, they asked him to leave for a while... he agreed to sleep somewhere else for the night.

and the next day she was able to get a RO.

She was in there doing her make up to leave and the door was partially open and i knocked. In the recording I say that I will let her close the door when I am done talking. I never entered the bathroom
The long recording was in the kitchen after she came back from shopping.

Before I came home at 8pm I called her at home to see if anyone wanted any snacks
Posted By: catperson Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 01:26 PM
And? ...
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
And? ...

I guess I did leave that a little open

She said they didn't need any snacks....I offered frosties from Wendys....they had just finished having ice cream. I got home and she was on the couch. I said hi to her and she said hi back. She looked really crappy. I went upstairs and checked on the kids and made a CD for D9. I went back down and grabbed a drink and she was in her room.
This morning I called and checked on the kids...todaywas their first day back...chatted with W briefly about tonites schedule becuase all 4 of us have IC.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 02:46 PM
Okay Carp,

Here's the thing. In some small way, I know that conversation made you feel good. To be able to get out what you wanted to say, to defend yourself. I'll give you that! And guess what? Almost every one of the BSs on here had moments like that. So, I wont take a virutal 2x4 to you because we all have done similar things.

But now that you have gotten that out of your system, let's talk strategy here. First off, as Mel said, never argue with an insane person! Go back and read what you wrote. She drove the conversation, not you. The psychotic one labeled you as psychotic. The one hurting the children labeled you as hurting the children.

You see, once I learned not to get in those conversations, the pressure was put on my wife. So, I am going to take you conversation and show you what I think you should have said to illustrate how to do this in Plan A and still defend yourself. I will write the responses you should have had in RED.

Me...I will be back in a few hours
Her....he said that you agreed to come back tomorrow.
Me....I said I never agreed to that we can call them back if you want I don't have any problem with that. This is all your should have said. Leave out the rest of the sentence. nobody has any rite to make anybody leave.
Her...everything is crazy around here and it is gonna end in the next few days
Me...I couldn't agree more Instead: "Okay"
Her....I can do wahtever I want to in my own house....whatever I want
Me....as long as you act respectful and mature I cannot disagree
Her....I don't have to give you any respect. I respect my children and that's why she puts up with every single torturous thing you are doing to me
Me...I am not torturing anybody Instead: You will act respectful toward me and our children in our house
Her.....yes you are
Me....I am only doing what is rite
Her....yes you are you are mentally torturing me
Me....you can leave I haven't said that you can't leave This is okay.
Her....that's fine the girls and I will leave while you are gone
Me...I am not agreeing to that This is fine
Her....it doesn't matter you don't have to agree
Me.....I am just telling you I do not agree This is fine
Her....whatever you say you do not have to agree
Her.....once things are settled and done you will get the same visitation we agreed on
Me....rite every other weekend for you and all that stuff that's laid out in the papers. Until then everybody lives here. Instead: "Your visitation with the children will be decided in court. Until then, I do not agree for the children to move out of their home."
Her...I mean it. I feel unsafe being here and I am worried about my children safety I'm leaving.
Me....you can leave This is okay
Her.....I'm leaving and I'm taking them with me
Me...then I will see you tomorrow in court Instead: " I do not agree to them leaving their home
Her...for what. I'm their mother
Me....status quo
Me....I didn't threaten anybody Note: never say this. Let her rant on about abuse or being scared. They ALL say this!
Her.....they and 2 therapists that have dealt with me personally agree that it's best for them to not be in this household with you Note: even if therapists are saying whatever (and usually the WS is lying about this), it usually is because they havent talked to you...so they have only gotten the lies. Take this with a grai nof salt!
Me.... I agree it's not best for all four of us to be here rite now but you don't want to leave
Her....they and I are leaving. I am taking my children and leaving
Me....then I will see you in court tomorrow. Instead: "I do not agree to them leaving their home"
Her....try that
Me....I don't have to try Note: this is childish! Dont take yourself down to her level. Correct response would be silence!
Her.....you can't do chit your so full of it you can't do anything. The reason your doing half of the things your doing is because you are set in your place and your not going to get them and your not going to get the things that you want
Me...if we are gonna talk like this we need to go outside Good response
Her...asks D to leave other room and go upstairs
Her....why are you pulling all these desperate desperate things because you are unstable and you are having a hard time dealing with how things are actually going to be
Me...I am not having a hard time dealing with it Note: I would just say dont even respond to a statement like this. But, if you did...on a one time basis...I would say "Look, I am here with my family acting in the way I am supposed to as a husband and father. You continue to be involved in an illicit affair, which is immoral and wrong. I will continue to do what is right for our children, for you and for our family, no matter what you do." This should be a repeated mantra. She should know it word by word after the thousandth time you say it.
Her.... That's why you do the things that you do
Me.... I made a plan and I am following my plan Instead: silence
Her... Your last ditch desperate effort
Me....there's nothing desperate Instead: silence
Her...you don't believe that there is nothing desperate but everybody else everybody
Me.....everyone who?? People that enable people to have affairs? I don't take what those people say with a grain of salt. This is okay, although I probably would have opted out with silence.
Her....my family....certain members of your family and the therapists and her lawyer
Me....when 1 of them comes up to me and says I don't think you should have done that I think you are desperate then ok. But so far I have had no one but chicken [censored] say let your wife go and I tell them she won't go. Instead: silence
Her....because I'm told legally me and the children have to stay until it's time to go
Me....rite that's what I have been told I cannot force you to leave Instead: silence (never discuss any part of legal process. You do marriage, your attorney does divorce)
Her...no you can't
Me...whatever I'm doing for me and the kids is fine
Her....but the mental torture that your doing to me I have basis now
Me....I am not mentally torturing you Instead: silence
Her...I has basis to leave
Me....then you can leave Instead: silence
Her....and take them with me I am worried about their mental health
Me...I am too I worried about them being exposed to him and the way you are doing things and the moral decisions you are making And then say "I do not agree to them leaving their home
Her....I am not doing anything bad and because you are not with me is the one problem
Me...no just the things that they will be exposed to are bothering me Instead: adultery is bad, breaking up a family is bad, exposing the kids to this is bad...and immoral.
Her....well too bad the bottom line in the way that the courts work is that they go with their mother
Me....then I will see you in court. I will stay out till after 8pm I won't deny your time here that's fine Instead: silence
Her....that's fine I am going to visit sick family this evening
Me...let me have their name and phone number
Her...my grandma
Me...I will call and ask if you are there
Her...no problem
Me....the kids have school tomorrow so they have to be back
Her...rite they will be back in the morning and they will go to school
Me...that's rite and I will be here when you get here Dont say this...just do it
Her...your gonna take off work tomorrow
Me....I have to make sure they go to schoolbexause I don't know if you will come back
Her....rite
Me...see it works both ways Again, we are getting childish again...which is just playing into her childish games. Dont go there!
Her...your playing games
Me...there is no game Instead: silence
Her....you are playing the game you are mentally unstable
Me....I am not unstable Instead: silence
Her...you have got a disassociative personality rite now
Me...A what Instead: silence
Her...you are only going to a certain degree of reality you are not processing anything properly
Me...I know all the reality Instead: silence...or the mantra again about the reality of the fact that adultery and breaking up a family is immoral and wrong.
Her...no your not
Me....according to who? You? A person who's been living a fantasy for over a year? This is okay...but argumentative. When you talk about the affair, state the facts. Dont put it in the form of a question!
Her....she names our MC her IC the kids C
Me...ok
Her....it's it's it's upsetting
Me....your rite it's terribly upsetting to me to have to live with what your doing to us everyday This is okay...but this is a back and forth into who hurts the worse. And in fogland, the WS always hurts the worse...so the better response would be: "It is upsetting, I will give you that. It cannot be easy for you to do the things yo uare doing and do so with a good conscience. I can understand how that would cause one to be upset."
Her....I am doing nothing to my children my children are aware of everything that I am doing and the reasons why I am doing them
Me....it's terrible that I am gonna have to deal with the fallout from what your doing for the rest of their lives Too many "I's". Your family already has one adult only worried about "I"...there cant be two! Always couch discussions into "us", "the family", "our marriage", etc. Never "I".
Her....your dealing with the fallout of your psychosis
Me....I don't have any psychosis Instead: silence
Her....mocking my yelling up to the kids to see if they wanted to go shopping with her earlier.
Me ...I was just yelling to them to see if they wanted to go with you This is okay
Her....ok then you say we can all go together lime a family
Me...that's fine
Her...we aren't a family anymore I am not any part of your life
Me....you are still my wife but you can leave the parts that you don't want anymore Instead: we are a family...what yo uare doing cant change that
Her.....the parts that I want are going with me.
Me....you still have all the legal rights that you have and that's not gonna change Instead: I do not agree to the children leaving their home
Her...that's rite and their mine and their going to be with me and you play this game with me all the time and I'm already feeding the dog too much I done talking to you
Me...that's fine I don't have anything else to talk about Instead: silence
Her...something about my dilusions(sp?)
Me....there no dilusions you are a cheater and a liar (bad?) Yes, bad
Her... I hate you and that's why I don't wanna be with you
Me...that's fine. Like I told your uncle she won't leave. Instead: "I understand that you feel that way"
Her....because your nuts. What's the next thing you are gonna do show up at my work with a gun tomorrow?
Me...no Instead: silence
Her....there are a lotta people worried about your instability
Me...then they can come here and talk to me if they got the balls or call me Instead: silence
Her...you mean writing letters is balls? Going on the Internet is ballsy? You have never picked up the telephone 1 time to confront the person who you think is causing this problem
Me....I don't need to pick up the phone when I see him in court as well Instead: silence (again, NEVER discuss court, legal proceedings, etc with her. Remember, YOU do marriage, your attorney does divorce)
Her...you never actually stood and did enough enough to actually accuse me of all this back door bullchit
Me....there is no backdoor bullchit Instead: silence
Her...really? Where do you get all your info? Looking thru my stuff?
Me...what info?
Her...I don't know all the info you have all the time? Someone saw us shopping? Where?
Me...it's my job as a husband to know This is the best thing yo usaid in this conversation, besides that you dont agree to the children leaving!
Her....Wow mmmhmmm sure they did
We chat about her locking her keys in her car yesterday and how she got in it etc
Her....you have absolutely nothing but a psychotic last minute scramble
Me...I don't need anything Instead: silence
Her...to try to save. You honestly think I want you? That the things that your doing are going to 1 day click in my head and I am gonna say all these psychotic damaging things that he did to me wow he must really love me
Me...almost like the psychotic damaging things you did to our family for years why would I take you back Not good at all! Again, the best response would have been silence. But the only response that would have worked here is" I understand that you feel that way. I also understand that our family is worth defending. I love my family. I love our girls. I love you. Whether you can accept that sometime in the future is upto you."
Her....it's years now
Me....July 2007 we are going over 1 year why would I take you back My man, you are talking like her here! Even if you want her to move to China and never darken your doorstep, you DO NOT talk like her. You just divorce her! If yo uwant no chance of ever having your family whole again, then continue talking like this! Also, even if your family doesnt make it...you want everyone involved (including her) to wake up one day and know who flew right and who didnt. Stay above the fray!
Her....I've done (mumble) your the one doing this because you want me back that's what you told my friends yesterday that's what you told me new years eve
Me....there's always a chance Better way of phrasing it is: "I want our family whole and happy. I thin kthat our children deserve that. I think you deserve that. I have learned a lot over this trying time, and I know that many marriages are saved even i nthe midst of what we are going through. So, I am willing to do whatever it takes to make our family whole. Our children want that too. So, it will be upto you whether that happens or not. The rest of the family really has no choice in the matter.
Her....there is never a chance
Me....for you there won't be and that's the way you are gonna think and that's fine and like I said I am gonna do everything I can for my family and myself and there is nothing else I can do. If you don't want a part of that that's fine This is okay. I wouldnt have said the first sentence though.
Her.....I never ever if a looking at you this much that that I have to deal with you makes me physically Ill
Me....yes I know the feeling exactly Not good! Pointing to yourself again. Remember, her feelings are her feelings. She is feeling them!! Thus, if you make light of them or dont acknowledge them, then it gives her further ammo to make you out to be this uncaring bad guy in her head (as opposed to the loving and understanding OM...blech!). Better response: "I understand you feel that way"
Her....it makes me physically sick
Me....I know I know exactly how it feels Again "I understand you feel that way"
Her....because you are so sick and unstable in your head
Me....I know how that feels I look at you and I have the same feelings. The feelings are mutual you can't imagine that they are not. I will be back later and you will be? If your going somewhere you gotta leave me a note or something Wow, that was a bad exchange@!!! Instead: silence
Her....why? This is my house I am your wife I don't have to tell you where I am going
Me.....well ya know secrets aren't good for a marriage Instead: "secrets are not allowed in a marriage"
Her....loony laugh
Me....well there aren't very many secrets anymore didnt need to be said
Her...whatever you say

Okay...can you see where I was going with this? Almost half of the conversation should have been met with silence by you! Now why?

You need to really become an expert in the fog. What you say goes thru the fog and by the time it reaches her brain, it doesnt sound like anything close to reality. And it isnt reality in fogland! Fogland has a different reality...which is why Mel said you cant argue with an insane person.

What gets thru the fog is mantras. Saying the basic same stuff, over and over. Never about you. Always about family, about her, about the kids.

Always that you will do what is right for the family and for her!

My wife said recently as we were talking that the one thing that finally got through to her was that I just continued to claim the promises of God. I kept claiming that I would do what was right. I would claim that I am defending my family and even her.

She said throughout the affair (while in fogland), she thought (and would tell others) that I was crazy! She even said many of the things your wife said above! That she was afraid, etc. "Why cant you get with reality? Why cant yo uaccept what is going to happen?"

The problem is that my wife at the time had no clue what was going to happen, right? You see, I banked on God. I banked on the statistics...the odds:

  • over 98% of all affairs fail
  • Out of the 2% that make it to marriage, over 60% of those marriages fail
  • Which means that less than one percent of all affairs end up in a longterm relationship or marriage
  • Over 60% of marriages that have adultery involved recover


So, who is the insane one? She is betting her entire life (and all of your lives) on a less than 1% chance. You are betting all of your lives on a 60% chance. Who again is the psychotic one?

So, the point is that you have to be the rock. Many times, you will not be able to defend yourself agains the verbal onslaught...because you know it will be pointless.

But let me give you another little clue: when you dont answer her tit for tat, when you confidently just do what you know is right...she WILL notice! That stuff gets thru the fog. She wont believe it at first. She will have to see some longterm steadiness by you. But it does get thru.

I know it is hard, but you are going to have to understand where she is at. It cannot be easy for her. Remember, we all need our needs met. Right now, she is having some met by you (even if she wont admit it) and some by the OM. To leave either of you will be painful! And a WS in the fog will do EVERYTHING they can to avoid pain.

I know your inclination is to say "well she put herself there." Sure, she did. But remember, you are culpable also! There were things you did or didnt do that led to the environment where your wife felt like she needed to run.

So, just understand that inside that fog is a scared woman. She is defiant and is fighting and running because the pain is too large...and she wants it to stop.

When you get into arguments with her, you only increase that pain...and make the "loving and understanding" OM look like the better alternative to run to.

So, steady as she goes, dude! Yo uare going to have to be the adult for both of you in this marriage for awhile...at least until she is gone and you are divorced. But you need to learn from all of this, no matter if she comes back or not.

Because the woman that spends the rest of her life with you will deserve a better Carp!
Thanks for the added details, Carp.

You really had me worried last night.

Listen to MM.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 03:54 PM
Thx for tearing that apart MM. I hope other people that read this stuff can learn from these conv/arguements as well.

As far as meeting ENs....I leave a cup out for coffee, try to ask her input for dinner, I was doing all the laundry for awhile...even hers...I stopped for a bit but think I will start again.
She is pretty much plan Bing me rite now!! She stays holed up in her room most of the time.

As far as the C saying I am unstable..I know this is NOT true for the one that we saw together and I still see.

She is going to see her IC tonite and she has not mentioned if he called her about the letter. She knows it said family and friends on it and even asked her friends that were at our house got one...they did not.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Thanks for the added details, Carp.

You really had me worried last night.

Listen to MM.

No problem for the update. When I got back to the house I was to exhausted to even post. I just hung with my kids and went to bed.
Posted By: Krazy71 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
The bathroom thing really bothers me.

Why did you choose to "confront" her there?

Carp,

Don't worry about it. If it is a concern at all, just delete it from the info you've saved.

POOF! No witnesses? It never happened. Never admit to it.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/05/09 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
The bathroom thing really bothers me.

Why did you choose to "confront" her there?

Carp,

Don't worry about it. If it is a concern at all, just delete it from the info you've saved.

POOF! No witnesses? It never happened. Never admit to it.

Got it




Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/06/09 01:15 PM
The things you hear discussed in your home when you are not there....
My W told my kids...I am not doing anything wrong...I can talk to and do whatever I want....I am only marrled to your dad on paper. I shared this with my C last night...I did not tell her how I know just that I know. W was quizzing the kids about locking herself out of the car they told her they did not mention it to me.
My kids C hurt herself over the weekend so I got the call to reschedule their appt. I sent W an email letting her know about this. Me and my C discussedgettingsome info to my kids C (kids C works for my C) about how to bring up the stuff W is telling my kids. W had IC last night as well and my C and I discussed possible "fallout" when I got home in regards to the letter I sent him. We also discussed my emotional state lately...I really don't have a way to describe it....I sleep good...interact with my kids well...I do have somewhat of a social life...I told her I am staying true to my marriage vows. She asked if I am consumed by what is happening in my life/marriage...I said in the beginning I was but recently I am ok. We talked about the comments my W likes to throw around about me being psycho and the disassociative personality thing.....she actually kinds chuckled and asked if me or W even knew what that actually meant!! I called home when I was done to see if everyone wanted ice cream...W said no but of course kids said yes. When I got home W was quiet and went into her room and me and the kids sat on the couch and watched tv a bit.
Earlier in the day I sent W a mail about dinner and evening plans. I made dinner for me and the girls. I saved W a plate of food and helped the kids with homework until I had to leave. When I got home W must have eaten her for because the plate as gone.
I made my daily journal entry and emailed it to myself for safe keeping.

This morning I left a cup by the coffee maker for her when I left.

Last night our furnace was acting funny and W asked if I called about it. I said yes and the soonest they could come was tonite. She mentioned that the last time the guy just blew all the dust out and it was good. I did this last night and it worked!! I thanked her for the idea and told her I would call her this AM to see if it was ok.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/06/09 01:18 PM
I also got the detailed phone bill yesterday.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/06/09 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I also got the detailed phone bill yesterday.

So what did you find?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/06/09 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Originally Posted by Carp54
I also got the detailed phone bill yesterday.

So what did you find?

OM is probably 99.9% of her texts!!
All day at work....couple hr break if she is around me...back at it again in her cave.
Her total bill was 74 pages! Kids phones and her mom and grandma are on there to.
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/06/09 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Originally Posted by Carp54
I also got the detailed phone bill yesterday.

So what did you find?

OM is probably 99.9% of her texts!!
All day at work....couple hr break if she is around me...back at it again in her cave.
Her total bill was 74 pages! Kids phones and her mom and grandma are on there to.

You pay for this?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/06/09 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Originally Posted by Carp54
I also got the detailed phone bill yesterday.

So what did you find?

OM is probably 99.9% of her texts!!
All day at work....couple hr break if she is around me...back at it again in her cave.
Her total bill was 74 pages! Kids phones and her mom and grandma are on there to.

You pay for this?

No
Posted By: Mortarman Re: Am I to far along for work exposure?? - 01/06/09 02:23 PM
Good!
Just recieved this email reply

Dear mr carp

Thank you for bringing these concerns to our attention

Because you are not an employee of abc we are not in a position to share with you any actions that we take in response to your email.

We hope you understand we must abide by the laws

What next??
Bumping for input
you leave it alone. It is always good to expose, but you can't make any of the people you expose to do anything, including the work place. I know its frusterating BUT you did the best you could.....

not2fun
I would reply with "Thank you for letting me know you received my letter. I understand about the confidentiality, and just wanted to thank you for any actions you may take to ensure this does not continue to take place at your place of business. I'm sure that sending a signal that it won't be tolerated will be a blessing in disguise to the moral of the rest of your employees."
Not2fun
I certainly don't want to send them a response that says...look what I got!! Dirt dirt dirt!!

Cat
I like yours. I wonder if now is my opportunity to explain why I sent the email.

I will do nothing rite now...
Personally, I wouldn't send anything. No response is letting them know you know they know, but aren't some psycho BS who is going to harass them. Its a very fine line. Because you can bet your WW is spinning you on them. And the more she spins, the better YOU look.

Now, I never had to expose to the work place, so again, I may not be the one to listen to (WH owns his own business and once I found out for sure who COW was, I didn't need to expose there. I had sent the death blow to the affair. And now, it is something that she KNOWS I would do in a heartbeat if I hear of ANYTHING between them.....she is more afraid of this intel I have than anything else... whistle...so at this point it is better for me to keep that little bit of info to myself unless needed.....)

not2fun
Journaling

I was thinking to myself last night while sitting with my kids in the drs office....Sunday W said she was "scared" for her and the girls because of my "psychosis".....obviously that must be fog talk/anger/ guilt. I am GOOD enough to take the girls to the dr...do homework....make dinner....and generally be a great dad.....sounds like a psycho.....eh??!! LOL.
Originally Posted by Carp54
Just recieved this email reply

Dear mr carp

Thank you for bringing these concerns to our attention

Because you are not an employee of abc we are not in a position to share with you any actions that we take in response to your email.

We hope you understand we must abide by the laws

What next??

You do nothing else. No need to send any further communication....it will be too much, over the top and seem vindictive instead of like you are truly trying to bring this abuse of the corporate environment to their attention. If you come across as vindictive, you water down your impact.
Thx Brits Brat.
Keep notes of instances that SHE suggested you do these things, or saw you do these things. It will show...if she tries to push the issue of you being unstable, she did nothing about it...or perhaps it is not true.
I journal something everyday.

Example....I came home from work....helped kids with homework...made dinner of x y and z.....emailed W earlier in the day...she said she would not be home till whatever time and not to save her dinner...w came home and went to her room while me and the kids watched tv or made CDs etc. I donthis everyday and then email it to myself.
Dvr in the bedroom is boring to listen to. Couple funny things that could be fun to play with.
W has apparently gotten a gym membership with a friend of ours....at least that's what she told the kids. She was talkin about a fitness evaluation she has tonite and taking the girls up there tomorrow night for open swim.

The evil part of my wants to call up there...pretend I am the friend...and ask if I can modify who is on my membership. If it's actually the "friend" and not OM....I will ask to have my wife put on it!!! If they say it's not the friend....I will call later and use the same story with OMs name....and ask the same question....then put OMGF or exGFs name on it!!

Is this TOO evil/obvious? I heard her say to D9 "don't tell daddy".
Yeah, it'll be pretty obvious.

You might want to find out if it is OM though. So you can correct the lie about who she joined the gym w/.

I hate it that she is telling your DD to keep things from you.

Why do you think she'd care if you knew about this?
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Yeah, it'll be pretty obvious.

You might want to find out if it is OM though. So you can correct the lie about who she joined the gym w/.

I hate it that she is telling your DD to keep things from you.

Why do you think she'd care if you knew about this?

Probably because it is with OM and not a friend.

She is very "I don't have to tell you anything" lately.

Gonna call up there and find out who membership name is in. Gonna say " I can't remember exactly what I signed up for" etc.
OMs name is not in their database.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I heard her say to D9 "don't tell daddy".

She needs to be reminded to keep the kids oout of this and never to tell the kids to not tell the other parent something. They should not be part of any lie or the Affair!!
Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
Originally Posted by Carp54
I heard her say to D9 "don't tell daddy".

She needs to be reminded to keep the kids oout of this and never to tell the kids to not tell the other parent something. They should not be part of any lie or the Affair!!

Trying to figure out a way to bring this up. I am gonna call my kids C today and let her in on a few of these details. Last night W got home from taking D9 to the library. She grabbed a bag of stuff and said she would be back by 10. D12 had went to a hockey game and was home by 10:30....no W. She asked where mom was...called her on her cell...no answer. They asked where mom was and I replied I don't know. D12 even commented how she can't get ahold of mom when she calls...she was visibly upset. D9 spilled the beans as far as the fitness thing...
just so everyone doesn't think I am just sitting around plotting revenge on my W...
We exchanged a couple goofy email yesterday, partially kid related, partially about regular stuff. I was off work early so I picked up D9 from school. The kids wanted sloppy joes and D9s teacher had a decent recipe so I went to the store to get all the stuff, I also grabbed some cookies to bake for dessert. Me and the kids made dinner and did homework while waiting for W to get home. I was NOT supposed to know where they were going, but D9 cannot keep a secret!! She asked me when the wash would be done because she "needed" something in there. I asked her what she needed but she had a look on her face like "I can't lie to my dad". She spilled the beans and I told her secrets were not good in a family. When they were done eating/doing homework I even made sure they had their stuff together for swimming.

W ended up coming home closer to 7 (she was at her lawyers office) and the they went to the fitness place to swim and stuff.

The kids C never called me back yesterday. I will call again this morning to get in touch with her. The girls have an appt with her tomorrow morning and I really want to speak with her before then.

I have been reading in other threads about people calling their kids schools and stuff to speak/email their kids teachers/guidance counselers. I am gonna do this today as well. Anyone have any ideas about what to say/email? I was gonna say "please keep an eye on my daughter, there is some turmoil in our home rite now, please let me know how they are doing, or if it affecting their performance...etc".
As far as telling the school...depends on who you talk with. With a counselor, they maintain confidentiality, teachers...maybe. The more details you give the counselor and principal, the better...and even the teacher. I would tell them what was going on, about what stage in the split/R you are in, and how you think the kid(s)? are being affected.

I would let them know they are seeing a C now and if there is anything you or the C would need to know, to please let you know.

If the teacher and school officials are aware of problems at home, they can be a bit more sympathetic about acting out, and be on the lookout for common problems.

Wise idea. They will also get a hint about which parent is being proactive. But beware, no official wants to get in the middle of a custody battle, so don't ask them for details about situations with WS or talk about court...they'll clam up quick.
Originally Posted by StillHereMakingIt
As far as telling the school...depends on who you talk with. With a counselor, they maintain confidentiality, teachers...maybe. The more details you give the counselor and principal, the better...and even the teacher. I would tell them what was going on, about what stage in the split/R you are in, and how you think the kid(s)? are being affected.

I would let them know they are seeing a C now and if there is anything you or the C would need to know, to please let you know.

If the teacher and school officials are aware of problems at home, they can be a bit more sympathetic about acting out, and be on the lookout for common problems.

Wise idea. They will also get a hint about which parent is being proactive. But beware, no official wants to get in the middle of a custody battle, so don't ask them for details about situations with WS or talk about court...they'll clam up quick.

Pretty much what I was thinking. No mention of the A I presume?
I think if you mention it...like..."We are beginning the D process because WW has been seeing another man." that will enable the school to watch out for OM presence and understand if kids are agitated because of a man's presence...it could be the OM.

Sick to think about it.

But don't expect the school to police these things, but it's good to let them know...not that a teacher allow a stranger around the kids, but if the kids seem to know a man, they may think twice about letting them go with him if they know there is an OM problem...
Originally Posted by StillHereMakingIt
I think if you mention it...like..."We are beginning the D process because WW has been seeing another man." that will enable the school to watch out for OM presence and understand if kids are agitated because of a man's presence...it could be the OM.

Sick to think about it.

But don't expect the school to police these things, but it's good to let them know...not that a teacher allow a stranger around the kids, but if the kids seem to know a man, they may think twice about letting them go with him if they know there is an OM problem...

Got it.
I sent both daughters teachers emails.

They said our family is going thru a seperation/divorce and I am doing my best to keep home life normal in regards to school, homework, daily schedule etc. Please let me know if my daughters schoolwork/behavior is suffering. I also told them that if they did not want me to share this info with my kids I would not. I said that I ask my kids everyday how school was and they normally tell me.

Not these exact words....you guys get the drift!!

My youngest daughters teacher already responsed!! Thanking me for the info and letting me know how she was today in regards to her work/behavior.

1 step closer to "superparent" for me.....1 step farther away for WW!!

I have a completely seperate email account (not linked to my iPhone in any way) that I send every email from WW, every journal entry, every doctors appt etc too.
I think this is important to anyone who is using electronic means to document stuff. If I thru my phone off a bridge.....I wouldn't loose a thing!!!
Quote
our family is going thru a seperation/divorce as a result of their mother's adultery and I am doing my best to keep home life normal
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
our family is going thru a seperation/divorce as a result of their mother's adultery and I am doing my best to keep home life normal

I left the red part out if there. I have to act like "super parent" in the eyes of the judge!! My kids are #1 priority! When/if this makes it to court....and I produce my mountains of paperwork....I don't want to look vindictive to WW but positive for my kids/custody. If the teacher asks...I will not hide it...but I don't want to throw it out there.
Sent an email to my daughters counseler in regards to some of the things W has been saying to them.

The "I can do what I want I am only married to your dad on paper" comment

The "secrets from dad" stuff

I also forwarded her my emails with my daughters teachers

The girls see her Saturday at 11am. I asked her to touch on these issues with the girls and let me know she got my mail.
Listening to your WW talk to OM....barf

They talked about todays crappy weather

Me mentioning to WW that the weather would be bad and how she only has 3 miles to drive.

She gave exposure letters to her lawyer....he laughed and said I was crazy. Her lawyer is gonna tell the judge I sent the letters to OMs family and WWs family and he is gonna subpeona the 1 from her work.

WWs lawyer was the last person in Illinois to try an "Alienation of affection" case.
Her Lawyer said it's a total waste of time...and good luck finding a lawyer to take the case. She talked about a lawyer I had mentioned once.
WW was gonna try to contact my daughters counseler to write a letter saying it is in the kids best interest to be with my W. She had made a comment about how she had just started to write things down. A comment about which judge we have and the fact that the judge will talk to the girls himself. The judge will ask my kids if I am acting like a nut job.
She was taking about how my oldest daughter is kinda mad about making me mad and our youngest will just go with W.

She was talking about the kids going with her or me and it was making the girls upset.

W just can't live here anymore.
She told my kids about the exposure letters and all the bad things they said about WW and OM and how I tried to get WW fired.

D12 asked WW if she loved this person....WE said she is not looking to marry anybody and is not "trading your dad in for somebody else"

My kids are apparently ok with my wife having a boyfriend

My wife never calls OM her boyfriend to the kids.

Gonna try to go to bed now...
I was chatting with my mom this morning. She is very supportive of what I am trying to do.
She wanted me to pose this question to you guys....

How do I relay the terrible info I have on my dvr to the kids counseler without looking like some lunatic recording my own family?
carp, is there a reason the recording needs to be given to the kids counselor?

Have you spoken to the kids about your wife's adultery and given them MORAL GUIDANCE? Or is your wife being free reign to teach them that wrong is right? It sounds very much like the latter to me. I will tell you from personal experience that this will mess them up for years to come being exposed to her immorality. They instictively understand that her adultery is wrong, but if no one VALIDATES that instinct and they only hear your wife's RATIONALIZATIONS, they will learn to IGNORE their instincts about right and wrong. They will learn they are STUPID girls.

It sounds to me like your wife is very successfully framing the argument with you being the nut for protecting your family instead of HER being the sl*t for destroying your family.

What is your plan on the legal front to get a separation going? I think her living there and openly flaunting her adultery has been devastating to your marriage and to your children's psyche.

She is like the loony wayward who moves into the guest room and proclaims "we are separated" and commences to live the single life. I know that sounds insane [because obviously that is not "separated] but I sense your wife may have pulled this stunt.
Originally Posted by Carp54
WW was gonna try to contact my daughters counseler to write a letter saying it is in the kids best interest to be with my W.

Never mind, I just caught this. Have you spoken to their counselor and told her all about your wifes affair?

And nothing you have done here is crazy. You did exactly what was prescribed by clinical psychologist, author, and founder of MARRIAGE BUILDERS, Dr. Willard Harley, by exposing your wife's adulterous affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy and you are trying to save your marriage.
Mel

I don't want to give her the recordings....just trying to find a way to get the info to her.
I have been trying to teach my kids right from wrong....and trying to teach them that "morality" is important....WW takes my 1 step forward 2 steps back. I am hoping the counseler will be 1 more person to back me up!! It seems no one else is.

Getting her out....legally rite now....I can't do squat!!! She has been told to stay....and that's what she is doing.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
WW was gonna try to contact my daughters counseler to write a letter saying it is in the kids best interest to be with my W.

Never mind, I just caught this. Have you spoken to their counselor and told her all about your wifes affair?

And nothing you have done here is crazy. You did exactly what was prescribed by clinical psychologist, author, and founder of MARRIAGE BUILDERS, Dr. Willard Harley, by exposing your wife's adulterous affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy and you are trying to save your marriage.

I have let the counselers....mine and the kids...know the truth.

Originally Posted by Carp54
Mel


Getting her out....legally rite now....I can't do squat!!! She has been told to stay....and that's what she is doing.

I don't understand. So you are stuck together FOR LIFE?? crazy
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Mel


Getting her out....legally rite now....I can't do squat!!! She has been told to stay....and that's what she is doing.

I don't understand. So you are stuck together FOR LIFE?? crazy

Not for life....just during legal proceedings. She will not leave without the girls!!

Even though if things were fixed.......I would be ok with life
Found my Ws "journal" that she started the other day....it has about 9 entries!!

Ex. June 12....confrontation
June 13th.....was drinking and acting crazy threw a glass at me
July 4th....was at a party at a friends house....called me a loser....said it sucked to be alone for holiday.
There is actually an entry from July where it says I lit candles in the bathroom and made her a CD! Which I did.

One entry says I took a door off the hinges. LOL.

Not one positive entry for herself.

Mine is full of both positive and negative entrys.
WW is on her way to OMs house. I really don't care anymore...yeah it hurts...she doesn't even care. I will spend the evening with the girls, make them dinner, take down the Xmas tree, finish D9s school project. WW said she would be home between 9:30 and 10....whatever.
What exactly do you think your wife can do to you if you tell her that if she goes to OM's you will put her stuff outside and change the locks? Honestly, what exactly are you expecting? A lawsuit? Calling the police? What? Explain, because I don't understand what you are so afraid of.
Originally Posted by catperson
What exactly do you think your wife can do to you if you tell her that if she goes to OM's you will put her stuff outside and change the locks? Honestly, what exactly are you expecting? A lawsuit? Calling the police? What? Explain, because I don't understand what you are so afraid of.


I am not afraid.....I just don't see any reason....she just doesn't care so it will just cause problems for me.

Last night was ok for me and the kids mostly. D9 and I finished her science fair project. D12 was at her friends down the street working on hers.
D12 called me to come meet her at her friends to walk her home. We walk home chatting and goofing. When we get home D9 and we finish her project. D12 is upstairs in her room and I can hear her talking to someone on the phone....she was crying and angry. I go upstairs to see what's up and she asks me to leave the room. I listen for a bit and she is talking to her mom. Very emotional...why does mom hate her, me, her sister, etc. WW calls me and tells me to go talk to her....tell her whatever you want...she was crying and very upset. I was very calm....I told her I knew where she was...I asked her to come home to her family so we could all talk. She told me she would be home by 10..I just said ok.

I went inside to talk to D12....very upset...she doesn't trust me, her mom, she wants a different family, etc. She wants to know why I don't just let mom go and get a girlfriend...I tell her that is not the right way to do things and that mom and I are still married. She was very upset by this. She told me she knows about the letters to OMs family...she said some things that were not true...I told her the truth..no details. She just wants all this to end...very upset still. She asks me to let mom go...I told her a have but that I still love her mom. I recount the story of my parents divorce and how the same thing happened to my parents so I understand how she feels. She asked me to leave her room....I told her I would and offered to bring her some water in abit. I check on D9...grab a smoke outside to collect myself and go back inside with her water. She is very worried about hurting my feelings...I tell her I am her dad and that I am strong enough to listen to her concerns....that's what a strong dad/husband does. She is worried that mom is gonna die from her cancer!! I tell her it is not that kind of cancer and mom will be fine.

There was some more stuff but I told the truth...I even told my kids the truth hurts but we get over it and grow stronger from it.

I chatted with WW this morning a bit...I will put up conversation later.
Originally Posted by Carp54
WW is on her way to OMs house. I really don't care anymore...yeah it hurts...she doesn't even care. I will spend the evening with the girls, make them dinner, take down the Xmas tree, finish D9s school project. WW said she would be home between 9:30 and 10....whatever.

Do you tell your girls where she is going when she leaves for her adulterous trysts? I am not getting here that the girls really understand the truth. Have they been taught that adultery is an acceptable alternative?

Carp, how far away from separation are you? I am horrified that your DD's are subjected to this freak show and are being taught that wrong is right. There seems to be no one in charge here and you are just going along with this horror show.

It is RARE to see such a brazen, in your face, adulterer that is so free to harm her kids. As their father, it is up to you to protect them but I see nothing happening on that front.
Quote
I am not afraid.....I just don't see any reason....she just doesn't care so it will just cause problems for me.
carp, have you read anything on these boards? Do you understand what consequences and boundaries are? Do you understand the concept here about stopping the affair? By sending out exposure letters but still letting her live with you and carry on her affair under your nose (and your kids'), you look like an idiot. If you're not willing to stand up to her about the affair, you might as well never have sent any letters!

No reason?! SHE WILL CARE WHEN SHE FINDS OUT HER AFFAIR CAUSED HER TO LOSE HER FAMILY AND HOME!

Why should she stop? You are letting her scr&w any guy she wants while you sit back and pay her way! Why should she stop? Grow up!
The only explanation I can fathom is that she was permitted to move into the spare bedroom and pretend she is "separated." Some people believe if they are "separated" they are entitled to adultery. Of course, the problem with this is that LIVING TOGETHER is not "separated" and being "separated" does not entitle one to commit adultery. Married is married!

Is this how your wife has justified this freak show? Is this why you are so willing to go along with this?
Mel

I made it clear to my daughters last night...again that what mom is doing is not correct. We are still married and that having a boyfriend/girlfriend while married is wrong and that I would not do it myself because even though things are tough me and their mom are still married. D12 was very upset by this. WW even told her about an EA that I had years ago. D12 asked me about it...I told her the truth. I told her how long it was and that I admitted it to their mom and that we worked thru it.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The only explanation I can fathom is that she was permitted to move into the spare bedroom and pretend she is "separated." Some people believe if they are "separated" they are entitled to adultery. Of course, the problem with this is that LIVING TOGETHER is not "separated" and being "separated" does not entitle one to commit adultery. Married is married!

Is this how your wife has justified this freak show? Is this why you are so willing to go along with this?


This is how WW "sees" it Mel....I was gonna edit my last post to reflect that. I told my kids that it is still wrong.

I am not "willingly" going along with it!! "Legally" I cannot make her leave!! She will only leave with the kids!! It's a catch22 for me.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I went inside to talk to D12....very upset...she doesn't trust me, her mom, she wants a different family, etc. She wants to know why I don't just let mom go and get a girlfriend...I tell her that is not the right way to do things and that mom and I are still married. She was very upset by this. She told me she knows about the letters to OMs family...she said some things that were not true...I told her the truth..no details. She just wants all this to end...very upset still. She asks me to let mom go...I told her a have but that I still love her mom.

Looks like your WW has done a very good job of gas-lighting poor D12. When you talked to D12, did you talk about what a M was truly about, or did you just say that you were "still M'd"? From your D12's comments, it seems she has this concept that M is just like a boyfriend/girlfriend thing for grownups, not a lifetime commitment made by two people to stay with each other through thick and thin.

Also, I suggest considering asking your WW about those untruthful things she said to your DDs while your DDs are present and listening, also query into her asking D9 to keep things from you. Don't let it turn into an argument. Her responses should be enough to help you DDs decide who they can really trust.



Carp, what have your DD's been taught about adultery? Have they been given ANY moral guidance?

I would emphasize that doing nothing while she flaunts this in front of your own kids is very harmful to your kids. When you say something is wrong and do nothing about it, it sends the message to kids that NO ONE IS IN CHARGE. And no one IS.

How does your wife rationalize this, Carp? Is my scenario about "separation" correct? Like I said, it is RARE that a WW is this brazen and I don't understand this.

Have you gone along with this sick, sordid set up before you got here? Did she gaslight you?
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am not "willingly" going along with it!! "Legally" I cannot make her leave!! She will only leave with the kids!! It's a catch22 for me.

Then WHAT ARE YOU DOING???? WHEN IS YOUR COURT DATE?? WHERE IS YOUR TEMPORARY SEPARATION GETTING HER MOVED OUT!?? CARP!! People separate every day all across this nation. You are not an endentured servant.

And yes, you are willingly going along with it if nothing is being done to get her out!
MiM

I did not just say "because we are M"

I told them I still love their mom and everyone in our house.

The secret thing I will get to when I can go thru this mornings chat with WW
Quote
I am not "willingly" going along with it!! "Legally" I cannot make her leave!! She will only leave with the kids!! It's a catch22 for me.
People throw their spouses out of their jointly-owned house ALL THE TIME!

You are just too chicken to do it.

Gah
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
it is RARE that a WW is this brazen and I don't understand this.

IMO his WW is doing that because:

1. She has no respect for Carp, period
2. She was advised to stay in the home by her lawyer
3. There's been no consequence for her actions
4. As far as she's concerned, she's no longer M'd

Carp better take note that, while his WW continues to stay home, she's also poisoning the minds of their DDs. D12 already appears to think that it's acceptable for mum and dad to have boyfriends and girlfriends and it's Carp that's causing all the problems.

It's a horrible situation. I'm thinking that if Carp tries to take any action like throwing her clothes out if she stays out with OM, it might escalate into something worse (like WW calling the police and claiming domestic abuse, for example). And what's stopping her from putting all of his clothes out in retaliation when he leaves the home to go to work, etc.?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am not "willingly" going along with it!! "Legally" I cannot make her leave!! She will only leave with the kids!! It's a catch22 for me.

Then WHAT ARE YOU DOING???? WHEN IS YOUR COURT DATE?? WHERE IS YOUR TEMPORARY SEPARATION GETTING HER MOVED OUT!?? CARP!! People separate every day all across this nation. You are not an endentured servant.

And yes, you are willingly going along with it if nothing is being done to get her out!


My last meeting with my lawyer we put together my last proposal and I told my lawyer....next step is court I don't want to throw anymore money at paperwork!!

The legal system is not fast. I am at their mercy.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I told them I still love their mom and everyone in our house.

Yes, but did you explain what a M entails? What the commitment really means?

CArp, by doing nothing about this, your DD's are getting the signal, loud and clear, that is it acceptable to move into the spare room, declare oneself "seperated" and commit open and flagrant adultery.

Your lack of action is seen as endorsement at worst and IMPOTENCE at best. Both are horrible messages to send to children. If this is wrong, then why aren't you defending their family from this wrongdoing? There is no leader here, Carp. No leadership. No action. NO ONE is protecting them!

The lunatics are running the asylum and your DD's are the victims of that. Your DD's have been so gaslighted that your "talks" come across as nothing more than "he said, she said" where they are taking sides. Your oldest is taking sides with the CHEATER. That is the result of INACTION. If mom is wrong and adultery is bad, then why is she allowed to cheat so openly and brazenly? To a kid, the proof is in the pudding. \

This borders on child abuse, Carp, to expose kids to this. It just makes me ill.
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
it is RARE that a WW is this brazen and I don't understand this.

IMO his WW is doing that because:

1. She has no respect for Carp, period
2. She was advised to stay in the home by her lawyer
3. There's been no consequence for her actions
4. As far as she's concerned, she's no longer M'd

Carp better take note that, while his WW continues to stay home, she's also poisoning the minds of their DDs. D12 already appears to think that it's acceptable for mum and dad to have boyfriends and girlfriends and it's Carp that's causing all the problems.

It's a horrible situation. I'm thinking that if Carp tries to take any action like throwing her clothes out if she stays out with OM, it might escalate into something worse (like WW calling the police and claiming domestic abuse, for example). And what's stopping her from putting all of his clothes out in retaliation when he leaves the home to go to work, etc.?


This pretty much sums it up!

The word "respect" or "disrespectful"....when it comes to us carries no weight with her.
Her lawyer told her don't leave and if he confronts you call the cops.
Consequences....she accepts them all!!
She is done....when I foind out about the A she told me the day "we" were done.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
CArp, by doing nothing about this, your DD's are getting the signal, loud and clear, that is it acceptable to move into the spare room, declare oneself "seperated" and commit open and flagrant adultery.

Your lack of action is seen as endorsement at worst and IMPOTENCE at best. Both are horrible messages to send to children. If this is wrong, then why aren't you defending their family from this wrongdoing? There is no leader here, Carp. No leadership. No action. NO ONE is protecting them!

The lunatics are running the asylum and your DD's are the victims of that. Your DD's have been so gaslighted that your "talks" come across as nothing more than "he said, she said" where they are taking sides. Your oldest is taking sides with the CHEATER. That is the result of INACTION. If mom is wrong and adultery is bad, then why is she allowed to cheat so openly and brazenly? To a kid, the proof is in the pudding. \

This borders on child abuse, Carp, to expose kids to this. It just makes me ill.

I am at a loss for what to do next.......

My mom brought up a good point last night....what is moral...what is right...what is the truth...and what is legal are all different things!!

Originally Posted by Carp54
I am at a loss for what to do next.......

My mom brought up a good point last night....what is moral...what is right...what is the truth...and what is legal are all different things!!
\

What is your lawyer doing about this situation? WHAT IS CARP DOING?
Originally Posted by Carp54
She wants to know why I don't just let mom go and get a girlfriend...

Reading over your conversation with your D12, I think much of her D12's comments above are really your WWs. She's using your D12 as her mouthpiece. Your WS is truly despicable for doing that. However, this episode underlines how IMPORTANT it is to tell your kids the truth and teach what's right, before they hear the twisted version from the mouth of a WS.

I'm really sorry that you're going through this.



Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am at a loss for what to do next.......

My mom brought up a good point last night....what is moral...what is right...what is the truth...and what is legal are all different things!!
\

What is your lawyer doing about this situation? WHAT IS CARP DOING?

My lawyer says to keep up what I am doing. The custody battle for me is uphill but not impossible. The police thing/email/letters are not real bad for me.

What am I doing?
I am being the best dad, husband, person I can be rite now.
I have made improvements in areas she has complained about before
I journal everything everyday since beginning of august
I am working plan A...it sucks. I have read here that plan B with kids and living in the same house can be a mess legally.
Originally Posted by Carp54
[
I am working plan A...it sucks. I have read here that plan B with kids and living in the same house can be a mess legally.

First off, there is no such thing as Plan B while living together, that is an oxymoron. Plan B means a separation. Nor are there legal problems to Plan B. It is not against the law in any state in this union to not talk to your spouse. We have many WS' THREATEN legal problems; but that is not a legal problem, it is benign bovine flatulence.

Quote
My lawyer says to keep up what I am doing.

Which is absolutely nothing other than enabling your wife to EAT CAKE and corrupt your DD's by flaunting her filthy affair while their dad sits by and does absolutely nothing. Have you considered getting a lawyer that works for YOU? You are stuck in a horrendous state of limbo while your wife abuses you and corrupts your DD's. The answer is to separate and get her out. Why can't this be done?

Have you put your house on the market? Will you be staying in the house? I mean, CARP, what is the PLAN here?
Mel

Seperating to my WW means she takes the girls. Which would you rather see? Even if I agree to 50/50 that means I have no control half the time. Rite now I am the homework, dinner, doctor, shower time, room cleaning, chore enforcing, goofing off, cd making, iPod helping parent....everyday.

I am keeping the house...even WW agrees to this. I will not refinance until every legal paper is signed....certainly don't want to give her any $ at all!!!
Me staying in the house means no interruption of school, friends, daily life, etc for my kids...this is another positive for me on the legal front.
I have letters from my dad and another person...that has watched my kids before and is from church...stating they will assist me in before school care after divorce....another plus for me.

I correspond via email with my kids teachers....plus again.


Am I missing anything else??

LEGALLY an affair is ok....it makes all of us sick....what else can I do? I live in Illinois....adultery affects divorce not at all. My WWs actions on the other hand...hopefully will affect custody.
All,

I can see the situation that Carp is in and it sucks! In my case, my wife left willingly, and erronously thought that later on, once she was established, that she would be able to come back and get custody. Well, of course, that didnt happen!

In Carp's case, his wife has been adequately advised not to leave, as she would almost assuredly be guilty of abandonment and lose custody. So, the ONLY reason she is still in the house is she wants to take the kids with her.

Now, what recourse does Carp have?

1. He could try to throw her out, taking her stuff and dropping it on the front lawn or the OM's doorstep. Result: Carp would be viewed as the aggressor here, and the most likely outcome would be that HE would be removed from his own home. So, this isnt a good choice.

2. He could do nothing and wait for the chips to fall where they may. This also isnt a good choice, for the reasons Melody has raised above. The chief among them is the damage that his daughters are going through.

3. Negotiate a settlement with his wife to get her to leave. Okay, IF she will do that...and IF she would agree to something that is agreeable to Carp, then this would work. But, Mrs. Carp sounds like the Cake Eating Queen. I doubt she would agree to anything except total surrender by Carp. If she would agree to at least 50-50 with the girls and no money exchanged (except that stated by law), then that might be a consideration. But, my guy feeling is that she wouldnt go for it. She believes she is entitled and will win custody, so in her mind, there is no way Carp can do anything.

4. Carp could leave. But, then he would be guilty of that which we described in #1 for his wife. Not good at all.

So, what are his other options at this point. Well, the only option left is to aggressively pursue the custody hearing. Push the paperwork, and demand it all.

My wife before we went to court the first time, told me straight out "there is no way yo uare going to get the kids. I am their mother." Two weeks later, I had primary custody and she was paying me child support. It was at that point the fog began to blow away because she began to feel the consequences of her sins.

Mrs. Carp is going to have to feel the same, I think. She is going to have to lose big...before her entitlement syndrome is uver shadowed by reality.

So, my suggestion here is to get all of your info, all of your ammo...and press the fight to her. At this point, I would suspend all but the basics of Plan A. I would tell my lawyer to file IMMEDIATELY for custody (primary and full). I would continue my intel gathering to make sure all of my bases are covered.

And around my WW, I would begin to act confident and secretive. Make her think you know more than her. Make her worried that you have something she hasnt thought of. Make her begin to suspect that she might not have a lock on things. Make her worried.

No more long conversations...just statements of fact. And push the fight to her. You see, a WW who begins to panic will make a WHOLE BUNCH of mistakes. Ones that will benefit you, Carp.

So, that would be my plan. Get things rolling, collect intel that will help your case, get counselors, teachers, etc to get on your side (you will have to be subtle and "manipulate" them into seeing things your way). Document EVERYTHING you do and she does with the kids.

Throwing her out is no choice at this time. But, you do have things to do. Press the fight and take the battle into her back yard. Make her begin defending herself.
Originally Posted by Mortarman
So, my suggestion here is to get all of your info, all of your ammo...and press the fight to her. At this point, I would suspend all but the basics of Plan A. I would tell my lawyer to file IMMEDIATELY for custody (primary and full). I would continue my intel gathering to make sure all of my bases are covered.

This is EXACTLY what I had in mind. He needs to get his attorney working FOR HIM and get this thing moving along. Someone needs to LEAD THIS SHOW. This has become the WAYWARD WIFE CAKEEATING SHOW and it is having disasterous effects on his daughters.

Kicking her out and/or changing the locks will only HARM him legally when this flagrantly entitled WW calls the police. This is about the most FLAGRANT case I have ever seen here. This one has NO SHAME at all.
MM

I could not have wrote a better "script" myself!! My thumbs would be bleeding!!

Mel

Intel is being gathered and will be shared with my lawyer this week.
I will post up transcript of this mornings chat later....WW knows I am smart, thinks the whole house is wired for sound. I threw her off by saying the kids did not like keeping secrets from me....of course she told them to NOT do that..more BS from her.
I NEVER share legal info with her....if I record something I don't even flinch that I know....she is scared...I think she is.....she told me this morning.....look at al the things YOU did to his famiy.....she brought up the secret thing....and wanted to know how my not telling HER about the letters wasn't a secret!!!
Carp, did you see this part of it:

Quote
I would tell my lawyer to file IMMEDIATELY for custody (primary and full). I would continue my intel gathering to make sure all of my bases are covered.

This show needs to get on the road. I would be on the phone with your atty telling him to GET HER OUT! He needs to move his [censored] and start working to get you and your kids out of this.

In the meantime, I would set her down and let her know how devastating this is for your kids to see her FLAGRANT adultery. Give her the article about "Kids, the LEsson they learn" and ask her to consider the horrendous lesson she is teaching those girls. Tell her how DISRESPECTFUL it is to flaunt her affair to you, her husband. Ask her to move out NOW.

I think she has been led to believe by your COOPERATION and COMPLICITY that there is nothing wrong with her sicko affair. All she has to do is move in the guest room and taht entitles her to act like an alley cat in heat in front of her husband and daughters. I would disabuse her of that notion.
Carp,

Do not argue with her. Keep your intel close to your chest.

But there is nothing wrong with stating facts. A fearful WW is the best kind!

So, you find out thru intel sources that she spent the night last night at the OM's house. You just state to her when she comes home that "it is inappropriate and disrespectful to me and our children for you to carry on an immoral affair." And then leave the room. Dont wait for a response (although I am sure one will come...lol!). Just make sure you dont get hit by anything in the back of the head as you head out!

But, as Melody said, I want to see you press the fight. Get your attorney to move forward. Your wife is scared (and should be). As it appears you are gaining the upper hand, she will become even loonier. And she will begin to try to "negotiate" with you.

There are no negotiations at this point, because of the type of WW your wife is. She is flagrant about the whole thing. She is going to have to take some hard hits before she backs off (or even gives in).

So, continue what you are doing on the intel front. Make her think you know stuff, even when you dont! But, get that lawyer of yours to start firing rounds here.

In war, the one thing the enemy does when artillery starts landing is to run! Which means he/she is no longer attacking you.
Carp,

Do you have a recorder in your WW's car? Since she thinks you have the house bugged, you might get more intel from her car now.
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Carp,

Do you have a recorder in your WW's car? Since she thinks you have the house bugged, you might get more intel from her car now.

She thinks everything is bugged!!
I am gonna hold off on any intel in the car rite now....I have gotten some good info from there before. GPS and dvr where in there for a few days.
Quote
I will post up transcript of this mornings chat later

When later?
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Quote
I will post up transcript of this mornings chat later

When later?

You guys really dig this transcript stuff eh?

When I get done with.....homework, dinner, shower, general good dad stuff. I might be able too get to it in a couple parts....takes awhile...listen...type...listen..type...etc.
Partial transcript
Me did you get to talk to D12 last night

Her ya I talked to her for about a half hour

Me so she told you that we talked about her

Her ya

Me ok I just wanna make sure

Her I know she is trying to male sure she takes care of everybody

Me no it's not she wasn't trying to take care of everybody

Her well she trying to take care of everybody that's the bottom line that's what she's trying to do. She trying to make sure your feelings aren't hurt she's trying to make sure my feelings aren't hurt ya know she's trying to take care of D9

Me I know I told her not to worry about my feelings I am her dad

Her I told her not to worry about anybody but she gotta ya know very strong feelings (kinda garbled)

Me I told her she's gotta stop keeping it all bottled up inside

Her she doesn't keep it bottled up she talks all the time

Me that's not the impression I got from last night

Her she very emotional she's very hormonal and this is a lot to be happening to her when her body is

Me I can't believe the amount of things she knows

Her ya she knows

Me that's absolutely terrible that she has gotta walk around knowing all that stuff

Her don't even start

Me I am just saying

Her she says she knows what she knows because you started it by telling her

Me the thing is is there are things she knows that I have never told her

Her so

Me I guess

Her she knows who he is

Me about that I had an affair

Her she asked me

Me about the letters

Her they asked me about that stuff too

Me I know I had to make sure I told her the truth

Her what is the truth that I have an STD that I am being treated for cancer and that she thinks I am dieing

Me I told her that your not dieing

Her I don't have an STD either stop telling people that

Me that's what we talked about that one day that's what we thought
(can't understand)

Her when she asks me questions I answer them

Me ok

Her I don't offer her information and I tell her and I asked her and I asked both of them when (stumbling for words) the letter thing was brought up was

Me how did they bring that up

Her because we were talking about something and

Me I never share any of that with them that's none of their business

Her well it's everybody elses business

Me it business to people that are
(she says something loud..can't make it out)

Her we were talking about something and I said that I have to give information to my person my attorney I always say my person or my people and D12 says like what like letters? She asked her why would you say that? D9 said D12 helped daddy write letters or something like that. And I said really ya know I am not angry with you I said if you did that

Me rite(not agreeing to what she is saying just a "rite" to show I am listening)

Her if you helped your daddy do that I said that's perfectly fine and everything and they both said no. D12 got mad at D9 for saying that I didn't help daddy do anything like that and um D9 said I didn't mean that and I said well if you guys if that's the truth tell me the truth you don't have to be scared or anything I said ya know if that's something you that's perfectly fine I understand that. They wanted to know what the letters said and I told them

Me ok

More to come later


Continued

Her I never say anything negative to you about you

Me I made sure last night I told them I can't answer for mom

Her I always say that ya know your not whenever their like well daddy is creepy and daddy is doing this I said no he isn't daddy is doing everything he thinks is rite for us. He is not trying to do anything to hurt me

Me rite

Her he is not trying to do anything to upset us

Me that's exactly what I said I told them the same thing last night

Her he is trying to do everything that he thinks is rite. He is not a crazy person he is not mentally challenged. He's just I said at times he just gets very very sad and he doesn't know what to do and that he's trying to do everything that he thinks is best

Me rite ya it's definitely ya know the plan definitely the reasons I did what I did

Her carp I doubt that

Me so I made sure I told them that I can't speak for you I could only speak for my self. If they wanted to ask me anything they could their not afrald of me their not scared of me. They don't think i'm crazy they don't think I'm nuts

Her ya and D12 asked me when we were coming back from my uncles she asked me about ya know she said ya know about where my person lives and blah blah blah

Me she said she knows who it is

Her ya I know she knows who it is cause she asked me

Me I told her I was sorry she had to know that

Her actually she didn't ask me she said she said is it this person is it OM and I didn't say anything and she said I knew it and she started laughing and everything

Me she really confused she thinks it's ok that your dating and she wants me to start dating and I told her that that is wrong

Her that's what she told me

Me I told her you shouldn't do that married people don't do that

More later
Continued.
Me D12 said you and mom aren't married we are married we are still very much married

Her only because we have to be

Me I told D12 I am still married because I want to be and I am gonna act like a married person because it's the rite thing to do. I was teaching telling them the difference between rite and wrong

Her rite

Me I think it's real important because D12 thinks it's ok to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend

Her she thinks it's ok once you decided your marriage is over or when you are in the process of

Me that's not rite

Her I told her that I knew because when she when D12asked me did dad ever have an affair? I said yes.

Me I admitted it to her and told her how long

Her D12 got very very upset and I said and D12 is like so you guys both did it and blah blah blah and I said for one thing what your dad did is totally different then what I did

Me I never said that to her

Her well I did

Me ok

Her and I said ya know I said he made a mistake and it was a small mistake and it was something that we worked thru and we got over

Me that's exactly what I told her

Her it was at the point in our lives our marriage was worth saving

Me rite (almost all of my "rites" are just my way of acknowledging I am listening)

Her and it was 2 people wanted to be in it at that time

Me rite

Her what I've done or what I did is wrong I said you do not cheat on anybody whether they are your BF or GF or husband or wife. I said you do not do that it is wrong

Me exactly

Her and I said ya know I said and the timing and what I did was completely and totally that's not what you do I said but I was done with my marriage I am done with my marriage and that's why it's as bad as it is rite now because it's very dificult because of the timing and that is completely and totally on mommy

Me ok at least you told her the reason is because of you and nothing that I have done because I haven't.

Her what

Me this is the reason that we are getting D is because it is your decision not because of mine

Her they know that it is my decision

Me ok I want to make sure because sometimes you walk around here and make it look like my fault

Her sometimes it is your fault

Me I have made ammends for the things I've done

Her (loud) they don't know the things you've done that's the thing

Me Again I don't have anything to be ashamed of

Her (loud) so you know you always want to constantly sit and make sure everybody knows my dirty deeds and not one single person knows yours

Me I don't have a problem with people knowing my dirty deeds

Her but the thing is is that it is pointless the children don't need to know all the things that you have done

Me I just don't run around admitting all sorts of things to them but when she asks me about things when she asked me about the letters said I said they don't say you have cancer

Her you told somebody that personally

Me they are really concerned about you dieing from it

Her because you had to tell her about the STD (D12 had referenced the letter/STD I did not just come out and tell her)

Me she asked me and I told her the truth

Her it's not the truth it's your convaluted way of thinking. I don't have a f*$:&/@ STD. Would you like me to get you a letter from my doctor

Me according to the definition from the CDC that's what they consider it

Her I don't have HPV I had undetermined I had I had my pap smear said that I had

Me (I can't make out what I say. I am very quiet while talking this whole time)

Her (loud) that's what you are telling everyone. Your talking to his family telling his family that I am being treated for cervical cancer. Are you or are you not telling people that

Me pre cancerous cells

More later.
This should be the last of it

Her of underermined origin that I had the colposcopy and I had nothing and 3 months later I had another pap smear and I had nothing

Me ok that's fine I didn't tell anybody you were dieing or having surgery or anything

Her no but you tell people I have a disease that I don't have

Me according to what we talked about at one time you did you do what am I supposed to do all of a sudden now it just changes. We sat in the driveway you talked about having an STD

Her no I never said I had an STD. I have never ever said I have an STD

Me all rite that's fine. (going back to kids conv). I told them what's happening isn't rite, I am not happy about what is happening, I am making all my decisions based on what I think is best for our family

Her rite and they know I am making decisions that are best for what I want us to have a different life

Me that's fine I understand

Her they are completely aware of that

Me I just want to make sure that's what you let them know

Her so well I always keep my conversations with them appropriate and when they ask me a question

Me obviously some of the things D12 knows about are things they would have never wanted to say I don't know why you would have told her all those things

Her aren't you on your path to truth carp (kinda loud)

Me well ya I guess

Her well the when D12 asks me a direct question I answer her. I never sat there and said do you want to know who my boyfriend is I never said that. I never said anything about the letters until they asked about it and I sat there at the restaurant and I said do you want to know this information do you feel this is ok and appropriate because I am trying not to have conversations with you all the time like your dad is all the time and pull you in. Do you wanna have this conversation? (this was all her towards the girls at the restaurant)

Me I never pull them into a conversation about what is actually happening

Her according to them you do

Me well that's not true.

Gotta go. More later. Trying to get it word for word so it can be hard to read.
Originally Posted by Carp54
Her sometimes it is your fault

She's pretty good at dropping bait, to get you to go on the defensive.

And you're pretty good at getting snagged by it.

Best to try ignoring her bait as much as you can, to avoid the conversation going sideways like it did.

Wow, what a double standard...it is OK for her to tell the kid's her "truth" but not OK for you to tell the kids your "truth"...

Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by Carp54
Her sometimes it is your fault

She's pretty good at dropping bait, to get you to go on the defensive.

And you're pretty good at getting snagged by it.

Best to try ignoring her bait as much as you can, to avoid the conversation going sideways like it did.

Do you think I am getting "baited"? I did not feel that way during the conv.

I still have some more to go through. The way she was talking I am trying to type word for word. She contadicted herself a bunch of times during the conv.

I gotta do some work but should finish the rest I about an hour

I met with my IC last night. We discussed Sunday nights episode. She is just apalled by what is going on. I steered the conv with IC to my wife asking for letters from kids C asking her for a letter saying W is a better parent then me...my IC runs the place kids C works at....she said NO WAY would kids C write such a letter. I meet with the kids tonite with their C for awhile.

My IC also discussed me talking to the kids about marriage and morals....she said it is a tough spot for me to be in. She said kids C is PRO marriage/family and the kids will be comfortable hearing it from her. Basically the kids C will be "backing up" what I am saying....butfor me to not push the issue with the kids to hard.

Originally Posted by StillHereMakingIt
Wow, what a double standard...it is OK for her to tell the kid's her "truth" but not OK for you to tell the kids your "truth"...

The part about her telling the kids "cheating is bad" but her still doing it....makes me sick!!
Originally Posted by Carp54
Do you think I am getting "baited"? I did not feel that way during the conv.

Oh yeah - my FWW is a MASTER at subtle baiting and deflection, and I still find myself getting caught by it from time to time. Notice how the conversation went after you responded? Notice how you found yourself on the defensive?
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by Carp54
Do you think I am getting "baited"? I did not feel that way during the conv.

Oh yeah - my FWW is a MASTER at subtle baiting and deflection, and I still find myself getting caught by it from time to time. Notice how the conversation went after you responded? Notice how you found yourself on the defensive?

Honestly I haven't sat down and read the whole thing yet!!


One thing that has been on my mind...me and C chatted about it last night.
I was telling IC about my parents D (similar sitch). My dad was a WAH...evey other weekend....custody was going to my mom anyway. My moms lawyer told my mom.....keep your nose clean!! No dating..partying..focus on your kids.

My W says "my lawyer told me to not leave because of the kids". Wouldn't he tell her....cut out the stupid chit you are doing....you are making yourself look bad!!!
Does a WW feel so "entitled" that they can do whatever they want....and the judge just says "here ya go....take your kids and leave...all the good things carp is doing don't mean a damn thing".

I feel like all the good stuff I am doing will be a waste. I love my kids...all the stuff I do I have been doing for years and I am not just gonna stop!! Watching WW act like she does makes me think.....am I wasting my energy and she is rite? Or is she so fogged out she doesn't care??
Some more...might not make it to the end.

Her according to them you do

Me that's not true. The only thing I ever tell them is like last night are you afraid of me? Are you scared of me? Do you think I am crazy? Those kind of questions

Her and they probably say no to you because because they are afraid of you in that aspect. So when they talk to you on Wednesday with Mary they might say a couple of different things to you

Me I understand. I don't have a problem with that. I told them we are not your best friends we are your parents. There will me some things you will not be happy with but we have your best interests in mind. Those kind of things never change nothing is gonna change for me. I am still gonna be the same person I have always been they know that. D12 was really really upset. She doesn't trust you she doesn't trust me she doesn't love you she doesn't love me she wants different parents.

Her I know she wants live with someone she doesn't care if she goes to a different school

Me she doesn't want anything to do with us

Her 15mins later she is perfectly fine

Me we talked for a little while

Her the thing is is that you also have to take into account that a certain degree of this is D12 too

Me I know. All I can do is listen. I told her I don't want to do all the talking all I want to do is listen

Her well I listened all night

Me I know I did a lot of listening to

Her she started at 3:30 and I got off the phone with her

Me that's good that she at least talked to both of us. I had D9 sitting in the room with us for a little bit too. I said now if you guys have any questions or anything that you are worried about and stuff like that

Her well see as far as I know D9 doesn't know who he is and doesn't knowabout the A and does not know about those things because D9 was not there and D9 does not ask those questions

Me those parts we did not talk about with D9 in the room. Towards the end I asked D9 to come into the room and sit down. I said I wanted mom to be here but I am the only one here rite now

Her rite (sarcasm??)

Me well that's true. I'm not lieing, I didn't make up a story, I didn't blow anything out of proportion, I was there. I told D12 mom called me, she wanted me to talk to you, she must be really concerned for you

Her because she was she kept calling kept calling and she was getting more upset ya know

Gotta do some work....more later.
My W sends me emails from time to time listing her "events" for the weekends. I know Melody would want me to ask if OM is in the plans....but I don't waste my time.

Todays mail states that I am going to take kids to C, she is going to the gym be home by 10. Saturday she is doing "girls nite" and will be home late. Sat during the day she is working.

Looks like Carp and the little carps will be doing some fun stuff this weekend!!

Her mail barely mentions the kids....except when she goes to the gym....the girls can go with her.


Last night was the counseling session with my kids....man was I nervous!!

She called me about 7:15 saying her 7:00 appt cancelled and could we come in early. I told her no problem. We ended up being there for 2hrs!! The joys of union insurance....my cost...$0.

We spent most of the time with D12. She knows WAY too much about what's going on. We talked about how it's not her fault that she knows so much....it's moms fault.

This won't be in any real order but I spent time with C alone and with the kids together a bit and one on one.

Kids are not afraid of me, dont think I am nuts etc.
Kids are very concerned about hurting my feeling if we talk about stuff.
D12 is very upset with her mom
D9 doesn't really know what's going on
My W did try to get the C to write a letter stating how the kids are doing...C said that since W is NOT their client....they would not do it.
We did talk about love and falling in love and the differences between the 2 with D12.
The kids can pick up on my body language and tone in my voice whenever I talk to them about what is going on...especially D12...even if am not direct in what I say.
We talked about how D12 loves me...and knows I love her....but I seem to be "different" lately.
D12 seems to be angry with me because I am doing so much at home in relation to them.
D9 is a chatter box whose thoughts were all over the place when we were talking.
D12 does most of the talking for both of the kids.
C said our kids are amazing in that they are 50% me and W. Neither one is a carbon copy of one parent.
We did discuss the morality of what is going on with D12. C did most of the talking during this time.
D12 is afraid mom is going to abandon her.
C said I am doing a fantastic job based on what is happening at home trying to keep things as normal as possible
C told me whenever there is a fight or tension at home the kids pick up on it. Basically when there is no peace between me W the kids are not at peace.
C asked me how far along legally we were and to move things along if I can. The sooner there is peace in our home the better for the kids.
C seems confident in my parenting skills.
C told me to give up on W! I have a lot to offer a woman and will recover very well. She even complimented my looks!!

I think that's most/all of it.
She is gonna get W in there with the kids as well soon.
Originally Posted by Carp54
C asked me how far along legally we were and to move things along if I can. The sooner there is peace in our home the better for the kids.

Did you listen to this part?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
C asked me how far along legally we were and to move things along if I can. The sooner there is peace in our home the better for the kids.

Did you listen to this part?

We discussed this Mel

I filed oct 17th for custody and 50/50 assets

Stupid paperwork back and forth.

I know my W has $80 left on her retainer as of jan 10th! LOL

Anyway as of Dec 15th when I met with my lawyer last we discussed our final offer...paperwork costs $. Same as above...no CS from W...no non family overbite for either of us. She gave me some final financial paperwork to fill out...which I did and handed in. I told her on the 15th no more back and forth paperwork. I want to start courtroom part next. Now I have to wait for attorneys schedules etc.
Have you asked your wife to move out? Have you sat her down and told her how devastating this is on the kids and how morally confusing to see their mother brazenly carry on an affair from their home and ask her to think of the kids and MOVE OUT NOW?

That sometimes works.

Where you messed up was by COOPERATING with this fake "separation" deal where she moves into the guest room and then cats around like a single person. She has been led to believe she is entitled to commit open and flagrant adultery in front of her family and that is a HUGE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Your cooperation has kept her in a fog which has been devastating to your kids. They are being taught that wrong is right.

Originally Posted by Carp54
My W sends me emails from time to time listing her "events" for the weekends. I know Melody would want me to ask if OM is in the plans....but I don't waste my time.

Todays mail states that I am going to take kids to C, she is going to the gym be home by 10. Saturday she is doing "girls nite" and will be home late. Sat during the day she is working.

Looks like Carp and the little carps will be doing some fun stuff this weekend!!

Her mail barely mentions the kids....except when she goes to the gym....the girls can go with her.

Complete and total COOPERATION with her BRAZEN adultery. You are part of the problem, CARP.

And I see from your dialogue with your wife that your 9 year old has not even been told about the affair or WHO the OM is. What does she think is wrong in your marriage?
Originally Posted by Carp54
Her well see as far as I know D9 doesn't know who he is and doesn't knowabout the A and does not know about those things because D9 was not there and D9 does not ask those questions

Me those parts we did not talk about with D9 in the room. Towards the end I asked D9 to come into the room and sit down. I said I wanted mom to be here but I am the only one here rite now

NICE! Her family is falling down around her and she has no idea WHY and noone is giving her moral guidance.
Mel

I have asked her/told her to leave numerous times....she will not go!!
Back in October she had money for an apartment....said her and the kids were moving out....I said you can...kids can't.

It boils down to this....she does not fĀ„&8ing care!!

I am gonna do what is rite for me/kids...she can friggin flounder around all she wants....she is burning her own bridge Mel....let her deal with it.

Her attorney tells her....if he confronts you or you feel threatened call the cops....how do I fight that??
Hi carp

I have been reading your sitch from the beginning and want to jump in here and ask you a question -

When your WW behaves this way do you feel threatened???

If I were you I would call the cops on her and have her removed from the property.

She is not behaving like an adult who has any self respect nor is she showing any value towards her home or children.

No longer enable her. Beat her to the punch call the cops first. Stop thinking about what you might lose, you have already lost her and unless you fight you wil never get her back. Even if you dont get her back (and given the way she is flaunting this in front of your kids you shouldnt want her back) at least you fought tooth and nail for what you believe in - Marriage, Family and Morality.

Dont take her idle threats. Counteract them what ever she says she will do, do it first.

Give her the phone if she threatens to call the cops. In fact dial the number and call them for her. Show her your not scared and you will NOT play her games. You have the upperhand here dont let her take that from you. When the cops arrive you stay calm and totally together the fog always undoes the wayward in one way or the other.

Get your attorney to file for custody NOW. Get your attorney to have her removed from the house NOW. If she cant be removed from the house get custody and you move out with the children.

The longer you let this continue the more it is going to damage your children Plan B is now the only option. She has to hit rock bottom before she realises what she has become. The conversations you are having with her are pointless - the day I stopped talking about the affair/issues in the marriage and handed him the letter outlining the financial mess he would be left in and that he would never see or hear from me again was the day he woke up. And that my friend was the day I stopped playing his BS game and I realise now part of it was he loved the game. He had me to support him financially/emotionally and her to play dirty sex games with.

MAKE IT STOP CARP - Only you have the power.
Littlepeanut

I have filed for custody, she doesn't want the house, she only wants the KIDS, and her $$.

Am I scared when she calls the cops? No! Last time they came I had my dvr in my pocket while talking with the cops...when they found this out they changed their tune. They didn't even want to listen.

Can I force her to leave..no

Like I said before I have asked/her told her and she won't...not without the kids.

I have been doing some planning/ thinking today and want some advise.
After talking with the counseler last night I have been trying to put together a letter to my Ws attorney thru my attorney. I want to spell out to the attorney how much pain this is putting our family thru....and ask him to ask her to leave our home because of the negative affects it it having on my kids/family life.

I have not been able to talk to my attorney yet about this...she is in court this week...but figured I would get it written up and then just email to her and she could check it and click send.

I already have a little drafted up (even using some of Mels words). I figured I would ask you guys for help also.

I even sent an email to the kids C asking if she could give me any advise or at least look it over or tell me what she thought.
I think you need a better lawyer.
Sorry Carp I agree with Cat.... YOU NEED A BETTER LAWYER.

If you have filed for custody where is this at?? Start pressing your attorney to get the job done dont take the stalling tactics from your attorney. If they continue to stall go somewhere else.

There is no way I would put up with this kind of service from someone I was paying good money to get a job done.
Originally Posted by littlepeanut77
Sorry Carp I agree with Cat.... YOU NEED A BETTER LAWYER.

If you have filed for custody where is this at?? Start pressing your attorney to get the job done dont take the stalling tactics from your attorney. If they continue to stall go somewhere else.

There is no way I would put up with this kind of service from someone I was paying good money to get a job done.

Where are things at?
Stuck in legal limbo rite now. I filed oct 17th. W had 30 days to reply. Mid December I get some MORE paperwork to fill out...stupid stuff. The day I got that paperwork I told my lawyer...NO more dumb back and forth paperwork I want to go to court. This week my lawyer is in court, last week my lawyer was in court.

How much more can I do?
Get a new lawyer.

One who wants to fight for your marriage and help you get your kids....... I work with lawyers all the time and when they are working on something which I am paying them for the job gets done whether they are in court or not.

That is what they have paralegals and assistants for to get the paperwork sorted.

I just dont think this lawyer is proactive enough. Tell them that. Tell them you need this sorted today or you are taking your business elsewhere. You have no obligation to them it is YOUR money you are spending.

Think of your children Carp. This is not about you, WW or your marriage this is about the way they see things.

Do you want your children to think it is ok to just treat people like crap and speak and act however you like whenever you like?? I can guarantee you that is the message they are getting from WW. The message they are getting from you is - Its ok to be trampled on as long as you love someone.

Either message is so detrimental to their futures.

What would you say to one of your girls if her husband or boyfriend was behaving like this??

Time to get a pitbull in your corner not a toy poodle. Do it for your kids, do it for their sanity, do it for their future.

Make WW realise what she has done by taking the one thing from her that still matters.

Mel, lilpeanut, catperson, and everyone else.......

I put on my big boy pants!!

I got ahold of my lawyer today. Asked her what the next step is. She told me she saw Ws lawyer today in the courthouse. Ws lawyer told my lawyer that W and her lawyer were thinking or talking about filing temp custody papers so W and the girls could leave the house!!! My lawyer said that because of the exposure letters W could not live peacefully at home!! I asked my lawyer....what do the letters have to do with my kids? She said not a thing. I asked what we were gonna do next....she said let's wait a week and see what happens. I then asked her ...why wait? I described Ws behavior over the last couple months...and how much she is not around and how much my kids know about the A. My lawyer was appalled!!
I also told her W has $89 left with her lawyer

So
She gave me some homework this weekend......get all my journal entries together since November noting Ws lack of responsible parenting....get them emailed to my lawyer....Monday WE file for temp custody!!

I of course forgot to ask....does this mean WE have to leave the house if granted custody???


On a personal note....my kids are gonna be crushed....anyone have any pointers for me?


I bet your kids will be RELIEVED to have their mother out of the house and not be a front row witness to her BRAZEN ADULTERY. MY GOD! Carp, I would call the attorney and tell her you want the wife out of the house and you want custody of the kids. And she needs to move her [censored] and MAKE THAT HAPPEN!
Your kids will be relieved to be out of the line of fire. I promise. More than anything, kids want peace and security.

I am so proud of you! And by all means, if you get the kids, you get the house!
Hey Carp, when you write it, I would stick with this theme:

Mrs Carp open and brazen pursuit of her adulterous affair with Scumbag Jones has caused Mr. Carp and his young daughters enormous emotional pain. Mrs Carp routinely speaks to her affair partner on the phone in front of her family and openly departs for her adulterous trysts leaving the family on most weekends. This is causing severe trauma and confusion with the Carp children, who are now seeing a counselor for their emotional problems.

Mrs Carp has discussed her adultery with our DD's and caused them moral confusion by validating her adultery.

We the ask the court to assing temporary custody of the children and possession of the family home, while removing Mrs Carp from the premises.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I bet your kids will be RELIEVED to have their mother out of the house and not be a front row witness to her BRAZEN ADULTERY. MY GOD! Carp, I would call the attorney and tell her you want the wife out of the house and you want custody of the kids. And she needs to move her [censored] and MAKE THAT HAPPEN!

Easy Tex!!
My W even emails me her "weekend plans" from her work email.....my lawyer wants those also.

My Ws lawyer must be dumb.....talkin to mine about that kinda stuff!!

I also told my lawyer that I am NOT gonna do our taxes till apr 15th...no $$ for W!!

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Hey Carp, when you write it, I would stick with this theme:

Mrs Carp open and brazen pursuit of her adulterous affair with Scumbag Jones has caused Mr. Carp and his young daughters enormous emotional pain. Mrs Carp routinely speaks to her affair partner on the phone in front of her family and openly departs for her adulterous trysts leaving the family on most weekends. This is causing severe trauma and confusion with the Carp children, who are now seeing a counselor for their emotional problems.

Mrs Carp has discussed her adultery with our DD's and caused them moral confusion by validating her adultery.

We the ask the court to assing temporary custody of the children and possession of the family home, while removing Mrs Carp from the premises.

She did NOT want this stuff Mel.
huh? Can you speak in English?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
huh? Can you speak in English?

She wants my journal entries since November. I am sure she will use the correct legaleeze when presenting it. I will forward your letter to her Mel.
Carp,

Your lawyer is a little to laid back.....you are going to need to stay on her like a fly on you know what. Make absolutely certain she files the petition for custody ON MONDAY. Do not let her put you off, keep on her!!!

BB
BB, many of us here feel the same way. She is not aggressive at all and that is why I think Carp needs to put a fire under her [censored] and get her moving in *HIS* direction.

Carp, in case you didn't know it, BritsBrat is a corporate attorney who has also been through a divorce. She can see your situation from a professional perspective.
BB and Mel

Last night I pulled together all entries since nov 1st. This morning I emailed 20 or so journal entries and email from my WW as per my lawyers request. My dad and another person are emailing me letters describing agreements to watch my kids before school and drop them off, make sure they eat breakfast etc.

I slept ok last night....I was up early today though. WW is gone to work and then off with friends for the rest of the day. I live in Chicago area and me and D9 are leaving soon to take the train downtown and do some shopping/sightseeing. D12 is up in the air about going.....moody preteens!!

I am a little nervous as far as "if" this is gonna work.....what do I tell the kids....WW is gonna flip.....what if my lawyer calls and says the judge says no....how many men have actually done this successfully....things like that are going thru my mind.

I know what Mel is gonna say...quit the "mental masturbation"......

Frankly I am more concerned about your attorneys competence. I would MAKE SURE she gets the big picture. Which is why i wrote that paragraph. She needs to understand clearly that you are not leaving, that you want your W removed and why.

For example, she needs to understand the toxic environment for your DDs and how detrimental this is to their mental health.

Just hope for the best, Carp!
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Frankly I am more concerned about your attorneys competence. I would MAKE SURE she gets the big picture. Which is why i wrote that paragraph. She needs to understand clearly that you are not leaving, that you want your W removed and why.

For example, she needs to understand the toxic environment for your DDs and how detrimental this is to their mental health.

Just hope for the best, Carp!

I did describe to her Sunday nights incident and Wednesday with the counseler....it was like a switch went off in her head!! I was chatting with my mom last nigh about this....she felt that I may have needed to describe things to my attorney about things at home sooner/with more conviction.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I did describe to her Sunday nights incident and Wednesday with the counseler....it was like a switch went off in her head!! I was chatting with my mom last nigh about this....she felt that I may have needed to describe things to my attorney about things at home sooner/with more conviction.

I agree!! Do you plan on presenting your case with more conviction from now on?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I did describe to her Sunday nights incident and Wednesday with the counseler....it was like a switch went off in her head!! I was chatting with my mom last nigh about this....she felt that I may have needed to describe things to my attorney about things at home sooner/with more conviction.

I agree!! Do you plan on presenting your case with more conviction from now on?

Yup!! And I would give anyone else the same advise.

My lawyer has not asked for my entire journal....just Ws bad parts. I presume (but I will ask her Monday) she wants to save the best for last.
Carp, I would be sure and give her a SUMMARY that gives her some context. She won't be able to see the big picture unless you DRAW IT FOR HER. Do you see what I mean?

Take all the facts, draw her a picture, and lay it out very simply so she can accurately and effectively present it to the judge.

I do this all the time in my sales job when I have to call on a real big chain that makes decisions in buying committees. I will make it EASY for my VP to understand and give him TALKING POINTS to take to his buying committee. I anticipate every possible objection and put the answer at my VP's finger tips.

That way, he understands the situation and can CONVEY IT ACCURATELY and effectively. You don't want to just throw facts -with no context - at her and hope she draws an accurate picture. Make it easy for her so she can effectively represent you.
My entries are not just days and times. Some of them relate to what me and the kids were doing and the questions the kids were asking about mom. I even copy/pasted alot of stuff word for word from here and the DB site and put in our names for the abbreviations.

I am gonna summarize events in the last 6 months for her in a letter also.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Carp, I would be sure and give her a SUMMARY that gives her some context. She won't be able to see the big picture unless you DRAW IT FOR HER. Do you see what I mean?

Take all the facts, draw her a picture, and lay it out very simply so she can accurately and effectively present it to the judge.

I do this all the time in my sales job when I have to call on a real big chain that makes decisions in buying committees. I will make it EASY for my VP to understand and give him TALKING POINTS to take to his buying committee. I anticipate every possible objection and put the answer at my VP's finger tips.

That way, he understands the situation and can CONVEY IT ACCURATELY and effectively. You don't want to just throw facts -with no context - at her and hope she draws an accurate picture. Make it easy for her so she can effectively represent you.

Mel is exactly right here! Carp, let me take you back to my situation when it was heated up. I had a pitbull attorney, one noted for blasting WSs out of the water in court (and getting custody!). I picked him EXACTLY because of that.

But, did I leave him to do all of the work? Nope! I would regularly meet with him, updating him on what was going on. I would bring in more intelligence, or jounral entries, or whatever I needed to get to him. I had stacks and stacks of pictures, documents, etc for him. Much of it, he would say "we shouldnt need that." But so what? I would rather him have EVERYTHING and not need it.

So, I didnt wait on the paralegals to break down all of the evidence I had. I would come to his office, sit in his conference room on my laptop, and I would type up the summaries...so I would make sure my lawyer and the judge would get the substance and meaning behind the evidence. I wanted them to draw the same conclusion I had. So, I "framed" the evidence to make sure that happened.

Shoot, I even sat in there and typed up the cross-complaint for custody.

Once I completed something, I would walk down the hall, hand it to him and ask what he thought. He would advise me what chanes I need to make (or what more evidence I needed to go get), and I would go back and do it!

Now, three things came out of this:

First, my attorney got the message that I was very motivated about my case (thus he was motivated);

Second, I saved a ton of money (he even told me once that I probably saved around $5000 with the work I did) by doing all of that stuff for him;

And lastly, I was able to "frame" the evidence and paperwork to get out my message.

Remember, your lawyer is a hired gun. But a gun is nothing but a tool. It is NOT your lawyer's case, it is your case...it is your life.

So, while defering to the experts is fine, as you need to listen to her...at the end of the day, you are in control of your case. And you need to make her work for you! Added to that, you need to be proactive and make sure you give her everything possible that will help your case.
Thx MM!!

I was wondering when you would pop back in!!
Again....your insight is appreciated!
Temp custody update!!!!

Feb 4 is the court date.

The paperwork looks like a dirty laundry list of WWs actions.

Both attorneys go to court for this.

It could take a month to "battle" in court.

I would like someone to post up the parework here for me....of someone wants to throw up an email address I will send them the word docs.....please remove the names because I cannot!!!
CARP, please be careful to not post anything here that could identify you. We have some mean, vicious monsters who read this website who will bust you to your wife if they can.

We had one snake who emailed a WW's therapist using the information posted here by the BS and she led the WW to his thread. The WW used the thread in a court action and caused this poor distraught BS and his 4 little kids untold grief. This snake made it impossible for this man to post here anymore so he lost his main source of support. The secret emailer from this forum was trying to be "helpful." mad

BE CAREFUL what you post here!
I will only send it to certain people. I am not a complete idiot.

I want it to be seen so other people in a similar sitch can better understand legal stuff.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
CARP, please be careful to not post anything here that could identify you. We have some mean, vicious monsters who read this website who will bust you to your wife if they can.

We had one snake who emailed a WW's therapist using the information posted here by the BS and she led the WW to his thread. The WW used the thread in a court action and caused this poor distraught BS and his 4 little kids untold grief. This snake made it impossible for this man to post here anymore so he lost his main source of support. The secret emailer from this forum was trying to be "helpful." mad

BE CAREFUL what you post here!

Melody is absolutely correct - do not post specifics that can lead back to your family.

BTW Melody- do you know whatever come of that distraught BS? I have wondered and hoped for the best outcome for the kids and BS.
Originally Posted by rwinger
BTW Melody- do you know whatever come of that distraught BS? I have wondered and hoped that for the best of kids.

rwinger, yes, a group of us have been helping these folks OFF BOARD in addition to hooking them up with counseling with the Harleys. This has happened other times, too. It boggles my mind that anyone could be so evil.
And carp, I do not in any way think you are an idiot. You just don't know how sick and evil some ppl are and the lengths to which they will go to see you lose this battle.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And carp, I do not in any way think you are an idiot. You just don't know how sick and evil some ppl are and the lengths to which they will go to see you lose this battle.


Alrighty then!!

Let's just say it looks real bad when you see it on paper!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 02:14 PM
I have been busy with my kids last couple days....keeping up on my daily journal...and keeping my nose clean.

My attorney will have papers court stamped Friday. They get mailed to Ws attorney. Ws attorney should have them Monday or Tuesday. I was told that Ws attorney only needs 7 days notice for the first hearing. Nothing will really happen on the 4th. They can only respond to the points in my papers....nothing else. Another court date will be scheduled 14-21 days later to hear both sides arguements.


So.....

When my W found out I filed on her...she flipped!! Her BFF was at our house that day and restrained W from hitting me....that's how it looked from my angle.

W should find out Monday or Tuesday as well about the papers. I am being a bit proactive/paranoid in that I am gonna have a female mutual friend/family member at our house both nights.....just incase W flips out/calls the cops or does something stupid.

I have also notified some family members/neighbors that if I call them....and they don't hear me talking...DO NOT hang up!! My W has made some comments about her crazy stepdad and violence.....so I am just trying to cover all bases.

I also told my 2 neighbor buddies that if they see ANY car at our house....to wait about 15 mins....and come by and ask for some TP/sugar/milk whatever. Even if my car or both our cars are there to do this. My neighbors know Ws family....


Does this all sound like too much??
Originally Posted by Carp54
When my W found out I filed on her...she flipped!! Her BFF was at our house that day and restrained W from hitting me....that's how it looked from my angle.

CArp, call the cops and get it on record the next time she gets violent! That would give you great ammo in getting her out.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
When my W found out I filed on her...she flipped!! Her BFF was at our house that day and restrained W from hitting me....that's how it looked from my angle.

CArp, call the cops and get it on record the next time she gets violent! That would give you great ammo in getting her out.

I am gonna have fresh batteries in my DVR.....you can count on that!!
Carp,

I am interested in what she said when she flipped out. Why was she angry? What did she say?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Carp,

I am interested in what she said when she flipped out. Why was she angry? What did she say?

I tried to see if I journaled the event....nope.

From what I remember

No judge will give a man 2 girls
The only thing I have to hurt her are the girls
She needs them
How could I take them from her

She was crying alot that day

I think she made a few more molesting comments.

I know I was very calm. She was very emotional. I made her BFF stand there the whole time.
The conv started behind the house....then ended...I had to go pick up D9 from a friends and I walked around the house to my car. She came running out the front door...with her BFF right behind her.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 03:11 PM
One more thing.

She had this idea I would not fight her at all!!

When she gave me her "blackmail" papers on oct 2 was the day she made the "I will make you out to be a child molester" comment.

Thru our marriage I was a "roll with the punches" kinda guy. Any crisis I dealt with and just moved on. She figured I would just do the same in this sitch.

She was the "overreacter"....

One year on Xmas day....2hrs before dinner....our kitchen sink backed up!! We had 17 people coming over. She was a bit frantic....I just rolled up my sleeves....fixed it....and carried on.

I hope this story makes SOME kinda sense!!??
It does.

If you look at my thread on my situation (I am still putting it together!), you will see how a WS reacts to actions by the BS.

It is illustrative that your wife thought you would just roll over. This is the first crack I have seen in her armor (and the same first crack my wife had). How so? Well, its her first instance when you are doing the opposite of what she believed. Now, she has to check her internal perceptions of you, and eventually the whole situation. You see, she is angry because she was wrong. Seeing your wrong is the biggest fan that can blow away fog. But remember, the blowing away of fog is painful!

Now, her reaction will be to knuckle down and fight harder. But in the back of her head, something has chanegd with you. Something isnt as she felt it is or should be. And that is a GOOD thing!

The more of these "surprises" you continue to string together, the more her situation she is currently in will deteriorate. All you have to do is keep doing what you are doing.

One note: please remember that you do NOT discuss custody, court, or anything else like that with her. Your attorney does custody and divorce...you do marriage! When she goes ballistic like that again, just say "I understand you are upset. All I am interested in is keeping our family together and happy...which is in the best interests of our kids, and us." And leave it at that.

But, all-in-all, this was a good sign.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 03:54 PM
This is only 1 example that I have shared with you guys. In my car I have a 6 page letter....talking about trust..love...the damage she has done...admitting the affair, STD, the pain it caused me and the kids...etc. This letter is from July!! When I was on the DB board I have a few other "breaks" as I call them....most of them before October.

I spent 2 weeks with her while her grandfather was passing over the summer.....the $ I had for my lawyer I spent taking care of her/our family. She even mentioned how that time was like "detox" for her.


Nights we would go out for dinner..just us

The endless cheerleading competitions WE spent hours at....chatting and acting "normal".

There are a few other events....I should spend some time copy/paste that stuff over here.

Carp...

hurray hurray hurray

Is her head spinning yet? rotflmao

Excellent, most excellent job.

Keep up the good work.

The wind, it is a blowin your way.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Carp...

hurray hurray hurray

Is her head spinning yet? rotflmao

Excellent, most excellent job.

Keep up the good work.

The wind, it is a blowin your way.

Thx for the praise PM!!

As far as the head spinning......she is doing her own plan B rite now!!

She has no clue what is coming though......

Last night the girls had counseling and she took them. When I went to pick them up she was still there. She spent the hour with the girls and the C.....I know the C is NOT happy with my W....wish I was a fly on that wall!!
Posted By: Verve Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 07:56 PM
I am glad to see you being so proactive!!! It really does have your wife flabbergasted, which is a good thing. Let her not know what to expect from you.


hurray YAY, Carp!!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/22/09 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by Verve
I am glad to see you being so proactive!!! It really does have your wife flabbergasted, which is a good thing. Let her not know what to expect from you.


hurray YAY, Carp!!!

Thx Verve!!

I thought Mel was gonna make another "mental masturbation" comment...

I am trying to think of every possible thing that could go wrong....it's almost like paranoia!

Around the house I am happy, chipper, carp/dad.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/25/09 01:14 AM
Some intel......

WW talking to uncle today (not the jerk uncle but his brother).

I have been good for a couple weeks!! Meaning me...I haven't done anything crazy!! LOL.

She is looking at a house a couple blocks away....I don't know how she can afford it!!

She has 11weeks to wait....this ties in directly with the end of tax season...WW works at an accounting firm.

So....

WW has no $$ rite now....she has been hounding me for my W2......end of tax season means she can get her OT in cash.

Boy....is she gonna be mad this week!! I am throwing a wrench in her "plan" something fierce!!
ahhhhh, so she thinks she is going to SNATCH your tax return and use it to get a new pad?
LOL Make her wait as long as possible. If you get a refund make sure she doesn't forge your signature to cash the check. If she filed separately would she get a refund?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/25/09 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ahhhhh, so she thinks she is going to SNATCH your tax return and use it to get a new pad?

Between her OT $ and her half of tax return I guess she would have about $3000.

My guess? With work for her being busy she doesn't have TIME or $ rite now for the D....let alone a house!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/25/09 02:03 AM
Originally Posted by black_raven
LOL Make her wait as long as possible. If you get a refund make sure she doesn't forge your signature to cash the check. If she filed separately would she get a refund?

I have my W2.

I don't know if she could file seperately....we never have in 11 years.
Quote
WW works at an accounting firm.


I would advise getting a neutral tax accountant.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/25/09 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
Quote
WW works at an accounting firm.


I would advise getting a neutral tax accountant.

It's funny you say that! She asked me if I had a problem with one of the people she works with doing our taxes!!

I can't really see any cons to it....unless they lie about something. What would they lie about??
Too get a bigger refund?
Quote
I have my W2.

I don't know if she could file seperately....we never have in 11 years.

Oh grasshopper, YOU file "married filing separately", claim the kids etc. and DO IT FIRST BEFORE SHE FILES!!! Like yesterday! :twobyfour:

It can be done and whomever files first sets precedent.

Precedent: an instance which may serve as a rule or example in the future

Your attorney/tax person can explain this to you.

Get 'er done! Watch for her head to spin even more down the road! Shhh! cool

On April 15th you can tell her you filed your taxes months ago.
Quote
It's funny you say that! She asked me if I had a problem with one of the people she works with doing our taxes!!

I can't really see any cons to it....unless they lie about something. What would they lie about??
Too get a bigger refund?
You're kidding, right?

You can't be serious! Someone she spends every day with, with whom she's been spinning her version of how you've been ruining her life, sucking all her money, probably even cheating on her...who's gonna make sure she gets what she deserves?

I agree with Ragamuffin; do it first! This is NOT the time to be nice to her! You can be nice later, when she's no longer WW.
As ragamuffin said: file first, separate, claim kids.
Quote
Temp custody update!!!!

Feb 4 is the court date.

Post haste, get your 2008 taxes done and efiled for good measure! Shhhh!!!

Quote
It's funny you say that! She asked me if I had a problem with one of the people she works with doing our taxes!!

I can't really see any cons to it....unless they lie about something. What would they lie about??
Too get a bigger refund?


Ragamuffin interpretation:

These goofballs know there is more $'s for each to have 1/2 of if they jointly file (if she doesn't make away with his 1/2 too).

Less $'s for her if you get smart and file seperately AND FIRST!

There would be an uphill battle for HER as there is no legal order on tax filing, who claims who, etc., set by a judge at this point in time. uhuh
Oh Lordy, I just read your sig line and you are 35!

I have one of those!

hug

Get 'er done!
I am no accountant but I have always heard that filing jointly especially when kids are involved is always the best option for the most money returned. I would make sure the check is sent to your address and not somewhere else for her to cash.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/25/09 03:45 PM
Marriage advice....affair advice....now tax advice!!

Gotta love this place!!

I presume she can't claim mortgage interest etc....she doesn't make enough.

I claim and file married 4....I think she claims 1 or 0.

I honestly never thought filing seperately.....thanks guys!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/25/09 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
I am no accountant but I have always heard that filing jointly especially when kids are involved is always the best option for the most money returned. I would make sure the check is sent to your address and not somewhere else for her to cash.

All mail addressed to me goes to my PO Box.
Quote
I am no accountant

I am. grin

This happened to ME by my then STBEX WH! Had CPA advice on how this works after the fact.

Quote
filing jointly especially when kids are involved is always the best option for the most money returned


Possibly less $'s for all, consequence for the choices SHE made and SHE knows it!

That's why she's bugging Carp for his W2!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/25/09 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin
Quote
I am no accountant

I am. grin

This happened to ME by my then STBEX WH! Had CPA advice on how this works after the fact.

Quote
filing jointly especially when kids are involved is always the best option for the most money returned


Possibly less $'s for all, consequence for the choices SHE made and SHE knows it!

That's why she's bugging Carp for his W2!

For me the $ is just gravy.

For her it is all she has as far as extra.

Credit cards....none for her

Her $1000 to me per month

Her $500 van payment

Her $170ish cell bill

Her gas, other misc expenses.....she nets about $2700....not much left for her.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/26/09 12:41 AM
I feel good.....

Went to church today...I have been slacking in that area since mid December.

She is actually kind of polite today.....LOL
WW brought me a bowl of ice cream AND a cup of coffee for afternoon snack. Her reason for said acts of kindness....I do it for her.
I just started BBQing our Sunday feast.....WW wasn't helping at first.....now she is in the kitchen working away.

I smile alot....crack some jokes....talk about nothing....if she only knew why I am really smiling............


Edit.....I just popped back in the house....she even mashed the potatos!!!!
Wow! Not mashed potatoes!! faint

LOL

Good job, Carp!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/26/09 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Wow! Not mashed potatoes!! faint

LOL

Good job, Carp!

Hey!! Usually they come from a box!! She actually wanted to know why I was making them blah blah blah....then she helps me! I was teasing her and told her to quit touchin my stuff!
Keep it this way Carp. Let the legal side take care of itself. At this point, you are just to Plan A and defend boundaries. Let your attorney do all of the nasty stuff.

It will begin to seep into her. She has no idea!! She will begin to be confused, as she thought you were Satan (lol). But who mashes potatos with Satan?

She wont understand how you can be so nice and be smiling when she is doing all of this crap. But, if she is smart, she will. She will come to the realization of what she is giving up.

You see, I saw two different outcomes by me doing this to my wife. If she chose to leave, after seeing me and seeing our life in the best possible light...then I knew that it would forever bug here and cause her pain. The "what-ifs." And if she was going to leave, I very much wanted that for her!!

But, if she woke up and began to see our life and went back for it, then she had the possiblity of being happy again. That I hoped for also.

So, it sounds like you are right on target right now. So, steady as she goes!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/26/09 03:50 PM
Thx for the insight again MM!
WW and I have chatted before (over the summer) about the "what ifs"....she had actually commented that she would cry herself to sleep eveynight after the D....but would never tell if she regretted it!! She even commented about how her family did not approve. All these comments were during the A so who knows if any was fog talk or what not.

You guys are gonna laugh at this....I am home today after being at the urgent aid this morning. Last Wednesday while at work driving I sneezed real bad.....and popped a ligament in my ribs!! The pain wasn't so bad thurs and fri but over the weekend it got worse.
I got home last night after dropping off my cousins D and the pain was unbearable!! I asked WW to look at my ribs to see if there was a bruise or a bump or anything. When we were dating and first married WW was in the medical field so she is kind of a mini dr. I lay on my bed and take off my shirt and she starts poking around....of course she has to comment that I was just trying to get her to touch me. We start talking about where she is poking and where it hurts...we talk about me going to the urgent aid today.

I get up at regular time today and check and see when the place opens...6am. I figure I might as well get it over with so I head out after some coffee. She calls me at 6:45 says that she thought I was going to the dr and not going to work and that she hopes I feel better. I have not replied yet.

The normal parts are the ones I still want....of course last night while I was gone she was on the PC looking up "naughty" outfits....she even sent one of those "look at what I am looking at" emails to OM.

She has told me in the past...she never liked to play "dress up".....
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/27/09 06:31 PM
WW had to find out yesterday.

She hasn't said anything directly to me....yet

She was very quiet overall and looked like a hurt/sad puppy

She made a comment about how I was on top of signing the kids report cards.

Comment about being on top of homework

Same thing about having dinner ready when she got home

I went to counseling last night and it went well. When I got home WW left to go to the gym....she left at 9:30 and got home about midnight.


D12 came into my bed after WW left. She said mom was sad all night. D12 does not want to live in a "little" house. I let her talk mostly and just listened. She is scared about the future. We watched TV quietly awhile in my bed and she went to bed about 10:30.
Just keep doing what you are doing. The next decisions have to be hers. She knows what she should do...she can even feel it now (which is why she is sad). But, she has to choose to do the right thing.

In the meantime, you be happy, keep moving your family forward...and of course, defend your boundaries.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/28/09 01:49 PM
WW made a few more comments last night....and I did not get sucked into anything!!

She commented how she was gonna take the girls to counseling tonite .....because I do it "all the time". I still will be picking them up because her IC appt is after the kids appt and at a different location.

She asked about my W2.....again.

W and the girls were supposed to go to the gym last night while I was at small group. D12 was not done with her homework by the time they were supposed to leave. D12 said to go without her.....W said she could not leave her home alone. They all stayed home while I was gone. W seemed a little POed by this.....D9 was a little sad too.

When I got home at 9:30pm (which is the time I say I will be home) WW looked like a sad puppy again.

All of her comments are things that were addressed in the temp custody papers....so she has to know about the papers.

I am still trying to stay one step ahead on the legal front. I need to firgure out what to tell my attorney in regards to my exposure letters/emails.
I have to presume my Ws lawyer will bring them up and I want to give her as much info as possible.

As far a "dirt" on me that is about all they have....she called the cops on me one day but I think I have that one figured out.

Any advice?
What's wrong with just saying that you decided you wanted to get her back, so you figured that wouldn't happen with a third person in the marriage, so you went and told everyone you know who could help you talk WW into coming back home. Sounds pretty wise to me. wink

I'm sure MB won't mind if you pretend to have thought it all up by yourself.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/28/09 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
What's wrong with just saying that you decided you wanted to get her back, so you figured that wouldn't happen with a third person in the marriage, so you went and told everyone you know who could help you talk WW into coming back home. Sounds pretty wise to me. wink

I'm sure MB won't mind if you pretend to have thought it all up by yourself.

Wise? Yes!

Desperate?
Couldn't a good lawyer just spin that as loving your wife and being willing to take her back no matter what she's done to you, and wanting nothing more than your family back together?
Originally Posted by Carp54
[I am still trying to stay one step ahead on the legal front. I need to firgure out what to tell my attorney in regards to my exposure letters/emails.
I have to presume my Ws lawyer will bring them up and I want to give her as much info as possible.

Just tell her where you got the idea: Dr. Williard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. He advises exposure to save the marriage since adulterous affairs thrive on secrecy. Exposure ruins the fantasy of the affair and is like chemotherapy to cancer. You did it to defend your marriage and your children's family from her adulterous affair.

Its not a "desperate act" but a strategic act designed to defend your marriage from her affair.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/28/09 03:06 PM
Thx Cat and Mel

I am just trying to stay ahead and your guys help is great!!

So....WWs lawyer says.....your honor mr carp filed for D and the did all this 2 months later!! Mr Carp is just a vindictive evil ......

I am trying to think all "Law and Order" about this...am I going to far??



(insert joke here Mel...).
smile
Quote
So....WWs lawyer says.....your honor mr carp filed for D and the did all this 2 months later!! Mr Carp is just a vindictive evil ......

and then your lawyer says...Mr Carp was trying to salvage his family and marriage by ending WW's affair. WW's adulterous behavior is harmful to his children and destroys the family unit. Mr. Carp does not want his daughters subjected to immoral and disgusting behavior. It's his duty as a father to protect his children and sadly their mother is the person they need protection from. WW has lied enough for everyone. Mr. Carp isn't going to be party to more lying so that Mrs. Carp can feel better and pretend her behavior is acceptable.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/28/09 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Quote
So....WWs lawyer says.....your honor mr carp filed for D and the did all this 2 months later!! Mr Carp is just a vindictive evil ......

and then your lawyer says...Mr Carp was trying to salvage his family and marriage by ending WW's affair. WW's adulterous behavior is harmful to his children and destroys the family unit. Mr. Carp does not want his daughters subjected to immoral and disgusting behavior. It's his duty as a father to protect his children and sadly their mother is the person they need protection from. WW has lied enough for everyone. Mr. Carp isn't going to be party to more lying so that Mrs. Carp can feel better and pretend her behavior is acceptable.

I like this to BR!!

Couple strange things.
When D9 brought home her report card there were copies of everyone of her report cards in an envelope. WW requested them for what??

In todays mail were 2 envelopes with requests for both my daughters medical records since jan 04. What good is this info??

Quote
Couple strange things.
When D9 brought home her report card there were copies of everyone of her report cards in an envelope. WW requested them for what??

In todays mail were 2 envelopes with requests for both my daughters medical records since jan 04. What good is this info??

At first glance - I was thinking she may be fixin to change schools. Now second glance - was the request from the school for medical records?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/29/09 12:06 AM
Originally Posted by rwinger
Quote
Couple strange things.
When D9 brought home her report card there were copies of everyone of her report cards in an envelope. WW requested them for what??

In todays mail were 2 envelopes with requests for both my daughters medical records since jan 04. What good is this info??

At first glance - I was thinking she may be fixin to change schools. Now second glance - was the request from the school for medical records?

School sent all report cards since kindergarden for D9

Requests for med records were from a hospital

Call the hospital and the school, Carp.

Find out what is going on.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/29/09 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Call the hospital and the school, Carp.

Find out what is going on.

School...they were photocopies of my daughters report cards. Maybe she was hoping they would have all her signatures on them?

Hospital....I have all the papers. I took pics with my phone of all the info. They are requests for info...the paperwork is in her handwriting dated 1-26-09. I called the number on the paperwork and talked to a lady. If I call after 8am tomorrow and give a CC# they will mail me all the info. Seems odd because my WW initials are on the request but no signature. I did a google search on both things....I can't find any info on why this info would make any difference in a divorce.

My insurance has been in effect since 2000 so its not like she can say SHE insures the kids.

I have taken my kids to the doctor in the last 4 years and signed the forms somits not like she can say "carp never took the kids to the DR ever".

I am gonna drop an email to my lawyer about it to see what she thinks.
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Call the hospital and the school, Carp.

Find out what is going on.

School...they were photocopies of my daughters report cards. Maybe she was hoping they would have all her signatures on them?

Hospital....I have all the papers. I took pics with my phone of all the info. They are requests for info...the paperwork is in her handwriting dated 1-26-09. I called the number on the paperwork and talked to a lady. If I call after 8am tomorrow and give a CC# they will mail me all the info. Seems odd because my WW initials are on the request but no signature. I did a google search on both things....I can't find any info on why this info would make any difference in a divorce.

My insurance has been in effect since 2000 so its not like she can say SHE insures the kids.

I have taken my kids to the doctor in the last 4 years and signed the forms somits not like she can say "carp never took the kids to the DR ever".

I am gonna drop an email to my lawyer about it to see what she thinks.

She is trying to build a case to make it look like she kept all these records on her children all these years. Tell your lawyer!
Always suspect a wayward!

tl
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/29/09 03:04 AM
Ok....
Mels idea?? Doesn't hold water.....I can go upstairs rite now and grab all the report cards we have.....I could call the school/DR...but why would I?? For me there is no reason. For her.....

1. She can't afford to live in THIS district....her "master plan" was to move to an appt close by...but out of district.

2. She was taking about waiting 11 weeks....she is pre planning....but I thru a wrench.

3. Report card/ med transcrit requests had to be made/dreamed up before she knew aabout temp custody papers.

She was still thinking....I am gonna cake eat...maybe get carp to get mad then call cops....TRO...then her and the girls could leave


But we won't let that happen now will we?
Two issues here:

1. She is trying to get documentation to show that she was the involved parent. She is trying to get school and medical records that might have her signature on them to show that she is the one handling the kids' affairs.

2. She is trying to get records in place in order to move the kids to a new school district.

Either way, your first answer is to not let her have those records. Hide them and get them to your attorney for evaluation. As long as she doesnt knwo that they came, she cant go ballistic about them. You may want to get the current report card in front of her though, as your daughter will tell her that she brought home her report card (by the way, before showing it to your wife, YOU sign it!!).

Second, check with your attorney to see if he can get the judge to freeze your children at the schools they are in...until both of you agree on where they are going OR the judge decides where they will reside. Do NOT let her take them on her own, out of their current schools and register them in a new one!! Do this IMMEDIATELY!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/29/09 03:34 PM
Scenario #1.....report cards don't have signatures. When we get them we sign the little folder they come in....I signed it Monday. All assignment planners and homework that needs to be signed are mostly signed by me for this school year and the last half of last year also.
Medical bills.....the last few months all DRs visits are scheduled and taken care of by me....and documented!!

Scenario #2......this is what WW "hoped" would happen!

Since all legal proceedings are in motion nobody can change the "status quo" without a trip to the judge....that happens next Wednesday and was initiated by me.

Last night....

Regular evening....I get home make dinner, help kids with homework...etc. WW took the kids to their counseling, then went to hers. I picked up the girls while she was at hers.
When she got home we chatted about juice boxes! I muted the TV and listened and thru in some nice comments....almost normal stuff. We started talking about weekend plans....I am gonna take D12 and her bff downtown like I did for D9 a couple weeks ago. I also mentioned taking the girls out for Valentines Day....she got a little lippy about me doing so much stuff with the girls. I did not let myself get baited in to another arguement. D12 watched a little TV with me before bed.
Good, Carp. Looks like you have your waterfowl coaxially aligned.

Make sure ANY documentation that puts you in a good light (and any that puts her in a bad light) is given to your attorney. Of course, any documentation that is the opposite...well, I heard that was lost in the flood, fire, etc. Right? stickout
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/29/09 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Good, Carp. Looks like you have your waterfowl coaxially aligned.

Make sure ANY documentation that puts you in a good light (and any that puts her in a bad light) is given to your attorney. Of course, any documentation that is the opposite...well, I heard that was lost in the flood, fire, etc. Right? stickout

Thx again for the insight MM. I was editing my last post so I don't know if you saw the updated info.

I sent some emails to my attorney. The tax question, school/med paperwork info and some of your guys posts about explaining the exposure letters.

WWs reply to my daily email is that she won't be home till about 8pm and who she is going with and where....someone a little paranoid maybe??

WW just called to tell me about a conv she had with D12.....the standard "she is getting lippy, etc, etc". WW said D12 called her on her cellphone and she had to go into the bathroom to talk. I made a comment about her talking on her cellphone at work.....she had to say "why? Are you worried about me getting fired"? She thru a sarcastic chuckle in.....I said nothing....she ended the conv with saying her boss was calling and she had to go.


WW has tried to bait me EVERYDAY since Monday night!! Water off a ducks back.....
Originally Posted by Carp54
Water off a ducks back.....

"Coaxially aligned." laugh

tl
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/30/09 01:15 PM
Sitting in a huge conference room at a major hospital waiting for safety orientation so I am kinda bored.

I listened to D12s side of the conv WW told me about yesterday. WWs version was only partly true....and missing some details. I actually started to tear up when I heard D12....she sounds like her mom....but is directing some of her anger at mom. I asked D12 about the conv last night and told her mom called me about it...she was not in the mood for sharing. WW got home about 9:45pm...she chatted with the girls abit and even spoke to me a little.


carp, to save me from having to go back and read the last 10 pages over again, remind where you guys are, status wise, please. What's y'all's status?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/30/09 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
carp, to save me from having to go back and read the last 10 pages over again, remind where you guys are, status wise, please. What's y'all's status?

We all live at home

She gave me some BS papers oct 2....she never filed....figured I would cave.

I filed oct 14.....me and the kids stay....her out.

Exposure on her bday.

We have first temp custody hearing feb 4 initiated by me.

I was on the DB site for 4 months and following their principles and advise

Any other questions Cat feel free to ask.
Could she be having the girls evaluated independently by a psychologist? Thus the reason for the medical records and report cards? Is she planning on making an allegation of some kind and looking for an "expert" to back her up?
Is she still seeing OM?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/30/09 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Could she be having the girls evaluated independently by a psychologist? Thus the reason for the medical records and report cards? Is she planning on making an allegation of some kind and looking for an "expert" to back her up?

Don't think so. I am with the girls far too much for this. All medical bills go to me anyway and I look at them all.

I think she was feeling like she was gonna have everything her way.....and i put the brakes on that!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/30/09 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Is she still seeing OM?

Don't know....don't care.
That's cool. I was just trying to figure out the dynamics in your house, with both of you knowing that one of you is going to be gone in a short time, and whether the kids were undergoing any stress with the involvement of another man in the situation. Do the kids know there's going to be a separation?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 01/30/09 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
That's cool. I was just trying to figure out the dynamics in your house, with both of you knowing that one of you is going to be gone in a short time, and whether the kids were undergoing any stress with the involvement of another man in the situation. Do the kids know there's going to be a separation?

I personally do not tell my kids ANYTHING about the legal stuff!! I always tell them I am making the best decisions I can for our family.

OM stress....D12....tons...D9....not so I think.

Seperation?? They know we are in a divorce situation...but again it doesn't come from me.

WW has been super parent last couple of days. Today she emailed me first with all sorts of kid related stuff!!

Day late and a dollar short if you ask me....

I think tonite I am gonna gonna go out....and live life a bit!

Of course not too much....
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/01/09 12:46 AM
Found my WWs impromtu journal. I took photos of all the entries. She even mentions her OMs name!! She copied all this stuff and faxed it to her attorney.

Couple examples.

6-12 confrontation...this was the day I learned about the A

7-14 called in early am from airport bathroom talking about suicide. Referred him to seek counsel

12-6 threatened to show up at my company Xmas party on the 13th

About 15 entries like this. Looks like I got some work to do.
I'm confused. Can you elaborate on what she was talking about, or is that too personal? The OM was threatening suicide? The OM was going to show up at HER party? confused...
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/01/09 05:12 AM
Originally Posted by catperson
I'm confused. Can you elaborate on what she was talking about, or is that too personal? The OM was threatening suicide? The OM was going to show up at HER party? confused...


Not OM me.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/01/09 05:48 PM
It's amazing how a conv about braces can go bad.
WW wasn't even going to tell me the Orthos name!! I knew the day and time...she said if I am the "primary" caregiver...I should know!

She then brought up another bullet point in the temp custody papers.

She asked me if I knew who a doctor she took our D9 too was.....8 years ago!!
I told her the past is the past.....I did not know the dr but I could find out....this made her mad!

I told her we were partners at the time...she didn't ask me about lawnmowers, oil changes, brake jobs, fixing stuff around the house.

I told her the conv was pointless....the past is done and I am only getting better day by day.

She said my "list" of good things I did/do over the last 3 weeks won't make a difference!! 3 weeks....LOL.

I used MMs line about her being angry and me making the best decisions for our family....she said she was doing the same!!

I used a little reverse babble on her....that shut her down pretty quick.

Quote
WW wasn't even going to tell me the Orthos name!! I knew the day and time...she said if I am the "primary" caregiver...I should know!

You should have told her, that a good parent, primary or not would never w/hold medical information from the other parent.



Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/02/09 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Quote
WW wasn't even going to tell me the Orthos name!! I knew the day and time...she said if I am the "primary" caregiver...I should know!

You should have told her, that a good parent, primary or not would never w/hold medical information from the other parent.

I am tired of telling her anything!!

I am off work today so I am gonna work on my responses to her "list".

There are a couple entries that talk about me "spying".

One is over the summer where I saw OMs car at the condo WW was staying at.
She even put that in her entry! Spied on me and OM at condo...that's how it reads. A few of her entries refer to OM.

How do you guys think I should reply to "spying" or "snooping" entries?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/02/09 07:37 PM
Trying to remember all this crap sux!! Every single thing she has listed I have fixed.....paying bills late.....or has to directly do with her affair!! Why would a person send stuff to their attorney admitting to an affair!?!?

Talked to my lawyer earlier. Told her about the "list" and how I am answering all the points ahead of time. The one thing that her and I laughed about.....is my Ws attorney stupid?? Or does he not like my W? Why would he tell the "enemy" about their plans??

Back to work for me.....anyone have any suggestions for my above questions lemme have them!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/03/09 03:13 AM
Just left my C appt.

C was asking me how I would feel with a 50/50 arrangement....I told her the way things are rite now....I don't think so.

I asked....why is it ok for a dad to be EOW.....but not a mom?

We only touched on this briefly.

She asked me what my preffered outcome to all this would be....I told her to have a "whole" family again. It would be alot of work on my WWs part....I don't see it happening though. She asked my second choice.....just to have WW out!!

I am having problems how/what to tell my kids if/when this temp thing goes my way....tell the kids it was the judges decision?? l
I would tell the kids the truth. That in a perfect world, their parents would be together, but in this case, both parents want them all the time! So you're working out the best situation for the kids cos you both love the kids so much.

If I were you, on that list, I would point out - every time a question refers to an affair-related situation, "I did XYZ in an attempt to win my wife back from the man she was having an affair with." Just keep repeating that for every question.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/03/09 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by catperson
I would tell the kids the truth. That in a perfect world, their parents would be together, but in this case, both parents want them all the time! So you're working out the best situation for the kids cos you both love the kids so much.

If I were you, on that list, I would point out - every time a question refers to an affair-related situation, "I did XYZ in an attempt to win my wife back from the man she was having an affair with." Just keep repeating that for every question.

Thx for the input Cat. I am thinking about not telling them anything rite now.....things are hard enough for them rite now.

Good thoughts on the affair related points. Most of the stuff I worked on today has alot of that type of verbage in it.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I am having problems how/what to tell my kids if/when this temp thing goes my way....tell the kids it was the judges decision?? l

No. Tell them the truth! That their mothers adultery has hurt the family so you are taking steps to protect your family. Those kids need to see that the world does not work in the warped, sick, wayward manner they have been taught at home, where the mother moves in the guest room, announces she is "separated" and commences to cat around like an alley cat in heat......right in front of her own kids! mad Adultery, adultery, adultery, is cruel, immoral and ..............intolerable!

If they don't get that message loud and clear they will grow up to be little cheaters themselves. It is a horrendous thing to be taught that wrong is right by your parent.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/03/09 01:34 PM
Thx for the input Mel.

I am off work again today....stupid economy!!
At least I have small group tonite....I need al the help I can get.

WWs email late yesterday read like "disneyland mom" stuff for the week.

When I go back home after everyone leaves I will post up some of my replies to WWs "list".
What list? From her answer to your filing?

Why do you have to go over any of this, Carp? Shouldn't your attorney be doing this? Is there a reason you would want to debate with a falling down drunk about what kind of parent you are?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/03/09 01:50 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What list? From her answer to your filing?

Why do you have to go over any of this, Carp? Shouldn't your attorney be doing this? Is there a reason you would want to debate with a falling down drunk about what kind of parent you are?

Mel

The "Matlock" in me found a list she was compiling to use to file for temp
Custody herself! I took photos of every page.....I am answering them before she even submits them!! The replies are not for her.
Gotcha! Good idea..
What EOW?

Tellm the kids the truth. Simply state that their mom is married to you but decided to have a boy friend.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/03/09 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
What EOW?

Tellm the kids the truth. Simply state that their mom is married to you but decided to have a boy friend.

I don't understand your question??

My kids know about OM. I am just trying to prepare myself when/if this temp custody thing goes my way.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/03/09 04:14 PM
here is my response to one of the points on my WWs list

i called her on this day and was very sad. Thoughts of suicide were on my mind.



7-16-2008

1 week after my wife and I exchanged long letters about working things out in our marriage.

On Friday July 11th W and I exchanged letters stating what we both wanted to do to repair our marriage. The week proceeding this was very emotional for both of us as a lot of the details of her and OMs affair were coming out and being talked about.
I felt we were turning a corner and W was coming back to our family.


July 11-13 was a weekend. W and I spent a lot of time together. We went out for dinner, BBQ, and drove down to see her grandpa as a family.

On the 14th she was back in contact with OM. By the 16th my mind was in such a bad place. How could she be doing this still to our family? I was very depressed and did call her to tell her how I felt. We talked for awhile and she reassured me things would be fine. I was working at the airport and was sitting on the employee bathroom floor while talking to her. The thoughts of "ending it all" did cross my mind. I called my employer and told them I was not well and was going home. I did make an appt to seek counseling.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/04/09 01:13 AM
Going over all this stuff from the last 7 months has put me in a bad mood.
Reading some of her "list".....knowing some of it is lies....some of it true.

I don't know why I am nervous about tomorrows court date. My attorney assured me that nothing was gonna really happen.

Looking at all my old posts....reading the replies....reading my WWs reactions to things....brings up emotions I have not felt in months.

I was supposed to go to small group bible study tonite and I did not. I still left the house like I was going.... I feel like God has gave up on me and I don't want to be with him rite now either.

The word "why" keeps going thru my brain....
Originally Posted by Carp54
I was supposed to go to small group bible study tonite and I did not. I still left the house like I was going.... I feel like God has gave up on me and I don't want to be with him rite now either.

Not a good time to give up on God. Not when your marriage and family is under assault.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/04/09 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I was supposed to go to small group bible study tonite and I did not. I still left the house like I was going.... I feel like God has gave up on me and I don't want to be with him rite now either.

Not a good time to give up on God. Not when your marriage and family is under assault.

I know Mel...I just wanted some quiet time. I am not giving up...I just feel forgotten.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I know Mel...I just wanted some quiet time. I am not giving up...I just feel forgotten.

Your feelings are misleading you, Carp.

Trust the facts!

FACT:
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Hebrews 13:5

Many are praying for you, Carp.
Hang in there buddy - dont give up - keep getting your ducks in a row.

Its a tough situation you are in. Very antagonistic and blatant affair while WW lives under the same roof.

Quote
told me if I fought her on custody she would make me out to be a child molester etc etc.


quote from your first post.

You have also lived under a constant threat by the enemy. No wonder your faith is being taxed. You may even have a touch of PTSD.

Just remember you have already experienced the worst and things will get better.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/04/09 01:29 PM
Thx for the reassuring words guys.
I spent some time praying last night. I apologized to God for thinking he forgot me. Some of the stuff WW wrote in her impromptu journal could be looked at as bad for me. The checking on her and stuff like that.

At least at work today I am not alone....working with a couple guys who know what I am going thru and we will be telling jokes/goofing off all day.

I know I have the truth on my side.....I hope the legal system at least recognizes the thuth!
pray pray Prayers going up for Carp from Texas.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/04/09 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
pray pray Prayers going up for Carp from Texas.

Thx everybody for your thoughts and prayers!!!

I had a great day at work!!

3 men working construction= things I can not repeat!

By lunch 1 of the guys said he cannot laugh any more today!

Headed home now and I am gonna BBQ some steaks.

No word from my attorney. I have a friend who is a court reporter and walked me thru the county court website. I can check that to see my next court date.

WW and the girls both have counseling tonite so I will have some alone time. I am picking the girls up WW dropping off.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/05/09 03:21 PM
Last night WW looked like crap!!
I had done my standard email in the afternoon and WW replied about what time she would be home. She got home, said she wasn't feeling well, went straight to her cave to lay down. The girls and I ate dinner, laughing and giggling. I poked my head in the cave to see if WW needed anything...she said no. She did get up to take the girls to counseling. When I went to pick up the girls a strange depressed looking woman was sitting next to D9. It was WW! She did not go to IC. I did not even recognize her when I walked in the waiting room. She never called to say she was there either. D12 came down from her solo time with the C and we all got up to leave. D9 went home with WW and D12 and I stayed to schedule the next appt. We hit the store on the way home to get a USB stick for D12 for school and a couple other household items.

When we got home WW and D9 were going to bed. I kissed D9 goodnight and said goodnight to WW.
Carp,

A friend of mine actually put Psalm 25 in a picture frame, which I have kept on my desk through out all of my mess (and I still have on my night stand).

I read it everyday and prayed on it in the middle of my He!!. Hope this helps!



Psa 25:1 To You, O LORD, I lift up my soul.
Psa 25:2 O my God, in You I trust, Do not let me be ashamed; Do not let my enemies exult over me.
Psa 25:3 Indeed, none of those who wait for You will be ashamed; Those who deal treacherously without cause will be ashamed.
Psa 25:4 Make me know Your ways, O LORD; Teach me Your paths.
Psa 25:5 Lead me in Your truth and teach me, For You are the God of my salvation; For You I wait all the day.
Psa 25:6 Remember, O LORD, Your compassion and Your lovingkindnesses, For they have been from of old.
Psa 25:7 Do not remember the sins of my youth or my transgressions; According to Your lovingkindness remember me, For Your goodness' sake, O LORD.
Psa 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD; Therefore He instructs sinners in the way.
Psa 25:9 He leads the humble in justice, And He teaches the humble His way.
Psa 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are lovingkindness and truth To those who keep His covenant and His testimonies.
Psa 25:11 For Your name's sake, O LORD, Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.
Psa 25:12 Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way he should choose.
Psa 25:13 His soul will abide in prosperity, And his descendants will inherit the land.
Psa 25:14 The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant.
Psa 25:15 My eyes are continually toward the LORD, For He will pluck my feet out of the net.
Psa 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, For I am lonely and afflicted.
Psa 25:17 The troubles of my heart are enlarged; Bring me out of my distresses.
Psa 25:18 Look upon my affliction and my trouble, And forgive all my sins.
Psa 25:19 Look upon my enemies, for they are many, And they hate me with violent hatred.
Psa 25:20 Guard my soul and deliver me; Do not let me be ashamed, for I take refuge in You.
Psa 25:21 Let integrity and uprightness preserve me, For I wait for You.
Psa 25:22 Redeem Israel, O God, Out of all his troubles.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/05/09 05:30 PM
Thx for that passage MM.



One of OMs uncles passed away this week. Wake is Friday. Part of me actually wants to send flowers with a card....to your family from ours...Mr&Mrs Carp and the little carps.

Probably not a good idea the more I thought about it.

If WW mentions not coming home tomorrow rite after work....I will ask her if she is going....I will tell her to extend or families sympathies to his. This will probably make her flip!

Dont tell your wife anything of the sort! She should not even be attending any of the events. His loss of a family member should not even be of an issue with your family.

I did like the idea of the flowers though...but not to the OM...but instead to the rest of the family!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/05/09 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Dont tell your wife anything of the sort! She should not even be attending any of the events. His loss of a family member should not even be of an issue with your family.

I did like the idea of the flowers though...but not to the OM...but instead to the rest of the family!

The reason I know is by my in house intel gathering.
I certainly will say something to her of she says she is going.

Still debating the flowers....it could be twisted a 1000 wrong ways.
Quote
I did like the idea of the flowers though...but not to the OM...but instead to the rest of the family!

I LOVE this idea SOOOOOOO much!

It would create lots of conflict for them as he has to explain his sitch to the decent folks in his family, who he has been keeping the A a secret from.

You might want to include your girl's ages on the card too.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/05/09 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Quote
I did like the idea of the flowers though...but not to the OM...but instead to the rest of the family!

I LOVE this idea SOOOOOOO much!

It would create lots of conflict for them as he has to explain his sitch to the decent folks in his family, who he has been keeping the A a secret from.

You might want to include your girl's ages on the card too.

They know about the A. Exposure letters went to all of them. I am gonna go with silence....in legal terms it makes sense.

In legal news....next court date is march 9th. 1 day after our anniversary.....how fitting!

On the school front....been in email contact with D9s teacher today....she is not paying attention and not writing down all her homework. The teacher sent me a "you are doing a great job" email!!
Hey, make sure you give your wife an anniversary card, flowers whatever the day before your court date (on your anniversary).

It will confuse the heck out of her!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/05/09 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Hey, make sure you give your wife an anniversary card, flowers whatever the day before your court date (on your anniversary).

It will confuse the heck out of her!

If.....that's a big word....I do anything....the word "happy" will NOT be in front of "anniversary"!!!

I will most likely acknowledge the day.....maybe just lay in bed....
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/06/09 03:37 PM
WW has sent me the "going to a wake tonite" email.

Should I acknowledge I know who's wake it is?


Originally Posted by Carp54
WW has sent me the "going to a wake tonite" email.

Should I acknowledge I know who's wake it is?


Nah - just let all parties involved know that your WW will be showing up there with her boyfriend, the OM.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/06/09 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by Carp54
WW has sent me the "going to a wake tonite" email.

Should I acknowledge I know who's wake it is?


Nah - just let all parties involved know that your WW will be showing up there with her boyfriend, the OM.

All parties??

I was gonna rey with send our families condolences to OMs family.
I would reply...."Is it the OM's!!!!" dance2
Quote
Nah - just let all parties involved know that your WW will be showing up there with her boyfriend, the OM.

How about flowers with a card attached...nah, it's not their family's fault what they're doing.

I don't see what's wrong with letting her know you know, unless that's revealing sources. Give her a little paranoia, kwim?

How about a card to OM?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/06/09 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Quote
Nah - just let all parties involved know that your WW will be showing up there with her boyfriend, the OM.

How about flowers with a card attached...nah, it's not their family's fault what they're doing.

I don't see

what's wrong with letting her know you know, unless that's revealing sources. Give her a little paranoia, kwim?

How about a card to OM?

I am gonna go with the condolences line. No flowers, no card. Like you said it's not his families fault.

If she asks how I know.....lucky guess??

Less of an answer is better rite now.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/06/09 06:50 PM
WW wants to know why I would think it was someone in his family. LOL.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/06/09 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
WW wants to know why I would think it was someone in his family. LOL.

Since everyone loves a train wreck/car accident.


I replied

If someone in your family had passed away you would have told me or someone would have called me.

None of our friends or their family members have died.

That just leaves someone from work.....a lucky guess!

Talk to ya later

She replied back

I work with 50 people and have gone to a wake for almost everyone that had a loved one pass

I am just gonna let it go....better to keep her guessing then get sucked in.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I work with 50 people and have gone to a wake for almost everyone that had a loved one pass

"thats ok, I will find out on my own. I have to document this for the judge. Please send my regrets." smile
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/06/09 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I work with 50 people and have gone to a wake for almost everyone that had a loved one pass

"thats ok, I will find out on my own. I have to document this for the judge. Please send my regrets." smile

You make me laugh Mel!!

It's in the paper...anyone can look.

You bet my journal will have an entry....

NO legal talk Mel....per MortarMan!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/07/09 03:52 PM
D9 had a friend stay the night. We all (me my daughters and friend) had pizza, went to the video store, had a good time.

WW got home about 7, brought some snacks for the kids, stayed in her cave most of the night.

I know I was feeling bad that WW wasn't laughing and having a good time with us...I probably shouldn't. How the heck can she sit in there and feel nothing? If I was her I'd be crying into my pillow! My shoe family going on with "normal" life while I did nothing!! The mind of a wayward.....
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 04:16 PM
Journaling a little here....

Saturday was uneventful. The WW went to work and me and the 3 girls were not moving rapidly. Soccer registration was saturday morning for D9.....I coached D12 for 6 seasons so its my youngests turn. D9s friend wanted to play as well so both families went to sign up.

After sign ups we all went to lunch together. I hten took my daughters to get their mom some Valentines Day gifts. When I was a kid my mom did the same stuff for us for our dad.....even though they were divorced she made sure he got fathers day, xmas, bday gifts etc.

WW called about 1:45pm and said she was going to the gym after work. She came home about 4pm, milled around the house, took a shower and left by 6pm to go out. I actually said to her as she was leaving "we will se you tomorrow". I think she got home about 4:30am......I guess "super Mom" from earlier in the week has left....

Sunday was odd

I went to church at 11am then went grocery shopping afterward. When I got home WW had cleaned up the entire first floor, swept, mopped, the whole 9 yards. I commented that the house looked and smelled great....this comment was met with some grumbling..I just walked away. WW even folded all my clean laundry...even my undies! WW then made dinner for us....then did not eat with us but said she was going to visit her uncle. She was back a couple hours later then disappeared to her room. She had come down from being upstairs a bit carrying a spiral notebook. She has been doing alot of writing lately.

sunday night and monday night D12 and I have had some very deep conversations...the phrase "I hate mom" came out a couple times.
I told her you should not hate your parents....I did a lot of listening...my heart breaks for her...and gets angry with WW.

Single parenting I think I can handle....I practically do it everyday. Trying to parent with a Wayward Spouse....in the same house....sucks!

Monday night was regular as far as the Carp house goes. BBQ for dinner....WW not home after work but at the gym. Me and the girls were upstairs when she got home...I heard her say "hello" but the girls did not. I flat out ignored her hello. Me and the kids just kept about our merry business...D9 on the PC...D12 doing homework on my bed. She got home about the exact time I had to leave to go to IC.

WWs writings....
I am gonna put it up here soon.
Quote
I went to church at 11am then went grocery shopping afterward. When I got home WW had cleaned up the entire first floor, swept, mopped, the whole 9 yards. I commented that the house looked and smelled great....this comment was met with some grumbling..I just walked away. WW even folded all my clean laundry...even my undies! WW then made dinner for us....then did not eat with us but said she was going to visit her uncle. She was back a couple hours later then disappeared to her room. She had come down from being upstairs a bit carrying a spiral notebook. She has been doing alot of writing lately.

She's posturing.

Journal entry: "I cleaned the house BY MYSELF while DH went to church. Did laundry for whole family. Cooked dinner. No one said thank you. DH ignored me. Kids ignored me. Nobody cares about me!"

OR

She was making a list of assets as she cleaned.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
I went to church at 11am then went grocery shopping afterward. When I got home WW had cleaned up the entire first floor, swept, mopped, the whole 9 yards. I commented that the house looked and smelled great....this comment was met with some grumbling..I just walked away. WW even folded all my clean laundry...even my undies! WW then made dinner for us....then did not eat with us but said she was going to visit her uncle. She was back a couple hours later then disappeared to her room. She had come down from being upstairs a bit carrying a spiral notebook. She has been doing alot of writing lately.

She's posturing.

Journal entry: "I cleaned the house BY MYSELF while DH went to church. Did laundry for whole family. Cooked dinner. No one said thank you. DH ignored me. Kids ignored me. Nobody cares about me!"

OR

She was making a list of assets as she cleaned.

I am gonna post up what she wrote....its not a list or a real journal!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 05:21 PM
Inside my WWs mind. This is from Sunday night

Starting another notebook!Just one of the myriad of spirals that I have attempted to trap my thoughts in. I dont want to talk. I keep thinking of each person in my life who up to this point I knew with utmost certainty that I can call upon and release some of the pressure of whatever is bothering me. Their faces go thru my mind one by one and I dismiss them. Not because I think that they dont care but because I simply cant bring myself to speak. Hard to believe I could be striken mute! The daily drama that since my teens has been a constant topic of conversation now is stuck inside my head. I dont have the energy to talk anymore. I'm crying, screaming, fighting, laughing but all inside my mind. I feel so lost and alone and bored with my own bullchit that I dont want to involve anyone else. Ive been told before that I'm self absorbed and dont pay attention to the needs of others


She has started a few spirals over the last 8 months. Most of them were a continueing "life story" kinda thing.


Chew on this guys.....
Quote
OR

She was making a list of assets as she cleaned.
Ouch! lol
Well at least she realizes things aren't quite right, I guess. Does she want you to read it?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Quote
OR

She was making a list of assets as she cleaned.
Ouch! lol

LOL!! Assets?? How many middle class American families do you know that have any ASSETS??!!

1 crappy 32" color TV
2 surround sound stereo....burned out display
3 couch....puked on by kids/cats
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Well at least she realizes things aren't quite right, I guess. Does she want you to read it?

This is a good question Cat!!

Its not like it was hidden under the couch or anything.

She LOVES to make spying\snooping comments.
Quote
The daily drama that since my teens has been a constant topic of conversation now is stuck inside my head.

What happened to her when she was a teen?
This is probably a sign that exposure has worked pretty well. Try to be the one person she can talk to!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
The daily drama that since my teens has been a constant topic of conversation now is stuck inside my head.

What happened to her when she was a teen?

She was sexually abused by her stepdads best friend when she was 12.

Drugs

Very unstable family life.

We met during her junior year. Her stepdad beat me up once because he thought I stole her virginity.

She had to raise her step brother from the time she was 12.

Do we need more?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by ZenWolf
This is probably a sign that exposure has worked pretty well. Try to be the one person she can talk to!

This I partially agree with.

About the exposure part.

I always try to keep myself available. She has to want to talk to me though....we are not there yet. I am still the enemy in her eyes.
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
The daily drama that since my teens has been a constant topic of conversation now is stuck inside my head.

What happened to her when she was a teen?

She was sexually abused by her stepdads best friend when she was 12.

Drugs

Very unstable family life.

We met during her junior year. Her stepdad beat me up once because he thought I stole her virginity.

She had to raise her step brother from the time she was 12.

Do we need more?

Hmmmm. This makes no sense then. If she rails against the drama in her life since her teens then why is she doing things now to cause even MORE drama in her life? Some people are like that though. They're never happy with the humdrum of real life. There has to be SOMETHING going on all the time.

Did she ever get any counseling for her FOO issues?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
The daily drama that since my teens has been a constant topic of conversation now is stuck inside my head.

What happened to her when she was a teen?

She was sexually abused by her stepdads best friend when she was 12.

Drugs

Very unstable family life.

We met during her junior year. Her stepdad beat me up once because he thought I stole her virginity.

She had to raise her step brother from the time she was 12.

Do we need more?

Hmmmm. This makes no sense then. If she rails against the drama in her life since her teens then why is she doing things now to cause even MORE drama in her life? Some people are like that though. They're never happy with the humdrum of real life. There has to be SOMETHING going on all the time.

Did she ever get any counseling for her FOO issues?

I cant remember what FOO means. We have been to counseling together in the past and whenever the counseler brings up HER past..she pretty much stops going. She has commented that she does not want to keep reliving her childhood over and over. When she started going back to IC last year teh IC she picked was one we had seen together a few years ago. He runs a center that has the word "christian" in the title......who knows what he and WW actually talk about!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/10/09 08:02 PM
WW and had exchanged a few emails today. They started like this from her.

her.. Just wondering if you are going to cash that check I gave you last month?

me....Wasn't tops on my list of concerns. I was gonna just deposit it not cash it. By some of your comments last night do you want me to hold off?

her...As I recall, we hardly spoke last night and when we did it was about Samiā€™s attitude. Didnā€™t recall making any financial comments last night. Was just going to tell you that I will pay the B of A credit card and just cash the check on Friday.

me...All CC bills are paid this month. Last night I asked if you had change for my $20 for the girls allowance. You said you had no money. This is the second time you asked about that check....I apologize if took these comments out of context.

If you are fine on money...again don't take this the wrong way....when will you have janruarys check?


her....B of Aā€™s payment (not the LATE one that you just paid) is due the 17th. I meant that I didnā€™t have cash since I generally donā€™t have any as I use my debit card. Deposit the check at your convenience.

me...... When I go back and read what you type....you seem so angry and defensive. Just something I notice.

I have noticed over the last week or so that you have been more withdrawn around home. You are probably saying to your self "Carp....why do you care?". I do care WW....

I know email can be "cold" and "impersonal".....face to face conversations are always best when we want people to understand us better. I am a good listener...you know this.

If you don't want to communicate at all....either verbally or written.....I will respect your wish.
Please let me know either way.


her....Your concern for my well being is always appreciated and noted. Thank you.



It is necessary for us to communicate for the care and well being of our children as well as the daily routines of the household as long as we continue to cohabitate. While that communication is necessary, the need to be ā€œchummyā€ with each other is not. We can get the points across that we need to convey, and move on. It is no longer necessary to make little email ā€œquipsā€ or share daily little diatribes with one another. As I have conveyed in the past, that could be misconstrued as wanting more from our relationship and therefore I donā€™t want to lead you into false hope. (ā€œFeeding the dogā€ā€”if you will). The girls are aware of my feelings and reasons for not wanting to eat dinner with you or watch television with you and that I would never ask them to choose to not do those activities with you and that they are more than welcome to join me should they choose.



The ā€œmatter of fact wayā€ that I communicate with you may seem cold or impersonal, but is in no way angry or defensive. That would, once again, convey a feeling that I have a reason to be angry or defensive with you as though I have done something wrong. During these next months, and even in the years after as well, I find that it will be necessary to communicate with civility and maturity but not to mottle the conversations with anything of a personal or intimate nature, would be counter productive.



I know my WW didnt write this......



Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
The daily drama that since my teens has been a constant topic of conversation now is stuck inside my head.

What happened to her when she was a teen?

She was sexually abused by her stepdads best friend when she was 12.

Hmmmm. This makes no sense then. If she rails against the drama in her life since her teens then why is she doing things now to cause even MORE drama in her life?

We have been to counseling together in the past and whenever the counseler brings up HER past..she pretty much stops going. She has commented that she does not want to keep reliving her childhood over and over.

It's an almost universal response for female childhood sexual abuse victims to have an extreme lack of self-worth and even to blame themselves. Basically, they destroy their own lives because they feel they don't deserve good lives. So they go out and make terrible choices (no offense carp) as far as SF and drugs and guys are concerned. I imagine PAs would be right up there with all that stuff.

The other universal response is to clam up about it and never, ever become vulnerable enough to a therapist or anyone else to get it resolved.

Of course, you could have holdingontoit's wife, who dealt with it by stopping all SF completely...
Originally Posted by Carp54
I know my WW didnt write this......

Your WW really is in her own little world, isn't she?

Strong is the fog with that one.

Unfortunately it might take the good dose of reality that comes with a D to wake her up to the damage she's causing.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/11/09 01:17 AM
Catperson

I take no offense by your commnent.

My WW has said these words to me before and after D-day....you are the best thing that has ever happened to me. These words I keep way in the back of my head.

MiM

Did you read her journal I posted on the last page?
Originally Posted by Carp54
MiM

Did you read her journal I posted on the last page?

Yup - IMO filled with self-absorption.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/11/09 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by Carp54
MiM

Did you read her journal I posted on the last page?

Yup - IMO filled with self-absorption.

At least she is filled with something!! For the longest time she walked around all "entitled".
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/11/09 02:09 PM
After I left last night the WW "pled" her case to the kids. I am taking my DVR to my attorneys this afternoon to see what can be done with the info

Things like....

She is not doing anything wrong

Talking about temp custody

You dad thinks this is a game

She "broke up with her BF"

She talked to them about yesterdays emails

She told them about the temp custody

The judge might make her leave

More stuff....makes me sick!!


Originally Posted by Carp54
After I left last night the WW "pled" her case to the kids.

How did your kids respond to her "pleading"? Have you had a chance to talk to them yet about that episode?

Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Unfortunately it might take the good dose of reality that comes with a D to wake her up to the damage she's causing.

I don't know if they ever realize it. XH and I have been divorced 5 years this May. He remarried 3 weeks ago (not to OW). Our son, who was too young to even remember XH living with us, has had nightly meltdowns because he has realizd Mommy and Daddy will never live together and we will never be an intact family. Since I have custody, I am the one who sees it. I tell my XH about it and he doesn't believe me.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/11/09 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by Carp54
After I left last night the WW "pled" her case to the kids.

How did your kids respond to her "pleading"? Have you had a chance to talk to them yet about that episode?

How did they respond..... When she skewed it enough to make me look bad they seemed to side with her.

Have I talked to them about it.....no. I listened to it in bed last night. I leave for work at 5am so no chance this morning. I don't even know how to breech the subject! WW already whines about how much I know.
Originally Posted by Carp54
I don't even know how to breech the subject! WW already whines about how much I know.

Hmm... How about this:

Have a chat with the kids about what's going on at the moment, and what may happen. One of them may eventually mention that chat that WW had last night with them. They might even mention something specific that you can use.

At point, ask WW to join you, then start the discussion off with "I understand you had a conversation with our kids last night where you mentioned...".

If she starts to protest about how you could possibly know that, indicate how you know is not important, and what you want to find out is WHY she'd say the things that she said, and it might be better for the kids if their parents were not using "alone time" with the kids to tear each other down.

She'd likely be left thinking that the kids spilled the beans on her (which will make her less likely to have such secret talks with them in the future), and the kids will see how dishonest she's really being in those secret conversations.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/11/09 07:02 PM
MiM

Good thoughts.

WW sent me her "plans for the rest of the week" email.
She actually has plans with the kids!!

Tonite my kids have counseling. WW mentioned in her mail that since she had her turn with the C....which according to last nights intel the C read WW the riot act....I can have a turn. Of course a few weeks ago I spent 2 HOURS with the girls and their C....I am not as nervous as before. At least I will be armed with my info from last night.

Maybe this is Gods way of telling me NOT to confronting WW in front of the kids. They have been thru plenty....another fight with their parents is the last thing they need.
Posted By: SIHW Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/12/09 04:44 AM
OK Carp.....i have finally read your whole stitch.
There is one major thing bothering me here that i see. I recognized the pattern because I lived it from your kids point of view.

I have never shared this with anyone at this board before.

As an adult I don't remember much about my childhood. I blocked alot of things out. From the outside view I would tell you I grew up independantly of my family. Father was a workaholic and mom was severely depressed. I was sent outside to play a lot on my own. I hung around with the 3 boys from across the street and was the neighborhood tomboy.

But we all know there is a deeper reason of why I blocked it all out. During my divorce I did alot of self reflection and dug back with my C to figure out what happened.

As a child I always feared my father. He was a force to be reconned with. My fear was so great of him I had and still partial have some anxiety issues because of it. He never molested me so please don't think that. But what he did do to all of us was verbally and mentally abuse me, my mother, and sister.

I do remember one occurance where my mother was not home and he and I began arguing and he slapped me. So hard I fell back on my bed. My C still believes this is why I still have so much anger at him. We DO NOT get along. But still there was something pushing it.

We delved further. That's when I discovered a memory I had mentally blocked. The C believes because it caused a great trauma in my life. Because I was such a tomboy my mother always pushed my dad to take me with him and involve me in what he was doing.

He was a volunteer for an organization that monitored emergency and regular communications for special events at the organizations site. A sort of dispatch center and he was the head of the committee. My father also owns his own business and a lot of his employees were also involved in the committee.

We there was this one woman who worked for my father and she had an annoying son who I hated. He was always following me around *at one time he had a crush on me*. Well one day my father took me with him to help him at the dispatch center and the lady and her son were there too. I was not told he would becoming or I would not have gone.

At one point my father with the lady standing next to him told me to take the kid with me and go explore the lake area which was down a Big hill. I whinned and cried saying I didn't want to go especially with that kid. My father in his dark low voice threatened me to go. Begrudgingly I went and took a pair of binnocculars hoping if I was looking through them he would see I was busy and I could just ignore him.

We took off down the hill to an island are where there were nesting geese. At one point he was annoying me so much i decided to block him out and play bird watcher. Looking through the binnocculars I looked up the hill and saw my father with the kids mother in a very compromising position. The memory to this day still makes me burn with anger.

I was so angry he was doing that with THAT woman. He forces her son on me to get me out of the way. When we got back i was very quiet and i back talked to my father a lot and was reprimanded harshly. I never showed an ounce of respect to that woman again. It was the beginning of the development of the rebel in me.

When I got back home I must have said something to my mother. I never heard of it or was subjected to anything after that until my father took my sister and I to a Denny's type place and explained that he and my mother were having problems.

My parents managed to work things out. My fathers entire family came down on him.

While my parents stitch ended positively many do not. CARP I am warning you now. You need to do something for your girls. Your wife is poisening them and thrusting them into an adult situation they are too young for...no way is what she telling them age appropriate and they WILL loose some of there childhood over this....Believe me I know. Your WW is willing to throw your children in front of the bus so to say to save her affair.

Protect your children now....You are the only sane parent they have left. If I was you...(and I was already) I would be fighting tooth and nail. My ex had plans while I was in the hospital on emergency to take my son to meet with OW. He had agreed with me she would not be anywhere near him unless they got married.

Wayward will lie to you to make there little happy place perfect. Don't trust a word she says. Who says when she takes the girls to the "gym" OM isn't there with here trying to create a bad with YOUR children....Do you want your children calling him dad?


Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/12/09 08:12 PM
OMW to my attorneys rite now with the audio. She said we will find a way to use it. She said rule #1.....never involve your kids. My moms thoughts.....supervised visits for WW.

I will update later.
SIHW, you remind me of me. I too blocked most of my memories. I do remember him taking a bath with me once, when I was 9 or 10 or 11...

Anyway, I was the tomboy just so my dad would notice me; I helped him build a house; went fishing; cleaned his boat; joined softball to please him; otherwise I wouldn't have seen the light of day with him.

Any rate, once he left my mom, for my 'visitations' with him, he would take me to the bimbo d'jour's house (well, usually apartment, they always affair down), and I would 'get' to babysit her brats while they'd go out or else go to her bedroom. Oh joy.

Anyway, carp, be strong. Don't try to be her friend. This is NOT your wife, she's an alien. Now is the wrong time to show her how nice and great you are when you're dealing with financial and legal issues.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/13/09 01:55 PM
SIHW and Cat thx for sharing your stories. I too came from a broken home and had no real father figure....it's not an excuse....but when you have no teacher....you don't get a good student!! My current relationship with my dad is a "buddy" type relationship. My WWs childhood...you guys got a brief pic of that a couple posts ago.....

So....the past is the past....let's work on today!

Met with my lawyer for about an hour last night while we listened to the audio....we made it about 30mins in and she had a whole page of notes. She is going to file a petition to not talk about the divorce with the kids kinda thing....there is probably a legal term but she didn't use it.

She shares office space with a criminal attorney and she is gonna talk to her about the best way to present this info. Recordings are illegal....so we can't divulge how we know so much....you could see the gears in her head spinning!! You could here my WW let out a long "whoa is me sigh" on the audio...and then it starts. WW even says at one point to the girls that "she probably shouldn't be talking about this stuff"...but carries on. My daughters even start to side with her on stuff...what kid wouldn't with their parent. D12 even tells WW about the "I hate mom" comment and my WW starts to cry! D12 starts apologizing over and over to her. This recording was from Tuesday night.

Wednesday night in counseling with the kids we touch on the subject and D12 goes into full anger mode....towards me. Calling me a liar, talking about how I was never there for her in the past and now I am. My own kids are being spun about the past....just like Mel said. When we started the session both girls were saying how much they enjoy "new dad". They like spending time with me, etc.
Did you ever expose the affair at WW's work place?

Did you ever expose OM parents?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/13/09 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Did you ever expose the affair at WW's work place?

Did you ever expose OM parents?

Yup. 12-29-2008
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/15/09 03:14 AM
Who thinks hydrogen peroxide and rubbing alcohol will kill roses??

Me and the girls had a great day!! We went downtown for lunch and walked around a mall. We even took the train.

We were running late getting home and WW sent me a "you were supposed to be home an hour ago" text. We had emailed during the day and I told her we may be late.

We get home and I throw something in the garbage....there are the stems from a dozen roses. I ask who got roses...she says me. Her and the girls went out for their Valentines event.....the girls were so tired from our day.


The roses looked parched.....I wanted to feed them...LOL!

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/17/09 09:34 PM
Things have been quiet around the Carp house.

Met with my C last night and mentioned the audio at home. She said I should share the info with the kids C so she knows what she is up against. The kids C called me on Friday but I was in the shower!! I sent her an email requesting to speak/meet with her in regards to D12s behavior during our last session.

My C commented last night that "even if this be don't go your way with the kids....at least they will know you did the rite things few years down the road". I hate hearing that!! These next few years are the ones that are the hardest on kids.....I dont want WW to "raise" OUR kids during these years.....she never even got to be a kid during those years!!

I am not treating this like a "game" like WW says...

I have no desire to throw this all in WWs face if it goes the way I want.

I wish the legal system didn't recognize "mom" and "dad".....but instead "parent 1" and "parent 2".
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/19/09 02:54 PM
I spent about 25 mins alone with the girls counseler.

Bottom line.....she thinks it's best the girls go with their mom!
I was totally shocked!

She talked about the "bond" mothers and daughters have

My girls say they want to live with mom but don't want to tell me

She said the girls routine is very important....which I agreed with.
I said....mom spends 30mins with them in the morning....what about our 2-4 hour routine everyday? I could pick them up and do that stuff everyday....her reply.

My WW should be allowed to....change schools....home....possible my kids not seeing their friends....so I don't disrupt 30mins "mom" time??

She said if I "push" WW out with the temp custody my kids will hate me?!?!

HELLO.....push?? WW did all that herself!!


Its not like last week....or last month...or even last year I magically became "dad"

I was/am furious!!!!!
As you should be. That's typical mom bias and a counselor that should be dropped immediately.

What you should be doing is establishing custody for yourself with a lawyer and have zero compromises on the table while she's in an affair.

Your bond with the girls is as important as mom's since you are the model they will seek for future husbands.

Don't believe the mom biased bull and take strong legal action. The loss of custody often wakes up WWes from their fantasy where they think they'll keep the kids and OM and simply replace you in their lives.

Not so simple in the real world.
Time to drop this counselor.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/19/09 03:49 PM
Thx for your input guys.

I know it's a male biased world. I am certainly not gonna quit now just becauseof what she said. Me and the C even talked about actions/verses words....my WW is full of words and has been poisoning kids.

As far as dropping the kids C.....they really like her and she likes them.

Some of the stuff she said seemed more all over the place the my WW

Be the stable parent

You girls love you and know you love them

The whole "don't disrupt their routine" thing kills me though.

Maybe counselers aren't used to men acting like me! I know if the tables were turned the whole world would say "screw him"!!
The routine wouldn't be disrupted at all for the kids if the mom wasn't out banging another man.

Simple enough response.

Get a new counselor. The kids don't need to know why and will adjust to a new one.

Either that or have a "Come to Jesus" talk with the counselor.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/19/09 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by baron_richtofen
The routine wouldn't be disrupted at all for the kids if the mom wasn't out banging another man.

Simple enough response.

Get a new counselor. The kids don't need to know why and will adjust to a new one.

Either that or have a "Come to Jesus" talk with the counselor.
I think I am gonna go with option 2....

In legal news......I have WWs reply to my list in my temp custody papers......deny deny deny deny. Anyone have any legal advise for when this goes to court.

Also recieved a "motion to take the kids and leave" paperwork. It has a few of WWs list.....most I have answered. Do I just deny deny deny??

I typed "deny" so many times.....did I spell it rite!?!
I'm curious to know what the girls' counselor thinks when you say "so you think the girls would be better off living with a woman who has cheated on her husband at least once, and who knows how many times she'll do it in the future with future husbands, which will mean even more disruption in their lives, not to mention growing up believing that if you don't like the guy you married, just sneak in a new one?'
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/19/09 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
I'm curious to know what the girls' counselor thinks when you say "so you think the girls would be better off living with a woman who has cheated on her husband at least once, and who knows how many times she'll do it in the future with future husbands, which will mean even more disruption in their lives, not to mention growing up believing that if you don't like the guy you married, just sneak in a new one?'

No kidding!! All this stuff ya think of AFTER the fact. When I was there I just could not believe what I was hearing!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/20/09 01:42 PM
A little journaling

Last nights routine was about as normal as usual.

Me and the kids got homework done and ate dinner. WW was working them coming home to pick up the girls to go swimming. D12 wanted to go to a volleyball game at school. I told her she had to be home before mom came and I she could eat dinner. Me and D9 started dinner by ourselves because D12s volleyball game was running late. D12 made it home towwards the end but wasnt late for her mom.

As the girls were leaving I kissed them both goodbye and told them to be good for their mom. WW said they would be home by 9pm, it was 6:30 when they left.

Thursdays is the first night of the week where I don't have something/someone to take someplace or do. Mondays...IC for me, Tuesdays....small group for me, Wednesdays....girls have C.

I was a little bummed out from the legal info from earlier in the day and was had to have some peace and quiet. I had arranged to go hang out with some friends (married couple we are friends with for a long time). I finished my daily journal, put on some loud music, did some push ups till my arms were jello and hit the shower. When I got out I heard some noise downstairs...the girls were home about 8pm. I come down the stairs, looking/smelling good, and tell everyone where I am going. We all know honesty is the best policy...WW says D12 wants to go with me. I ask D12 if she wants to go and she says yes and gets her stuff together. I don't have a problem with D12 going....she has known these people almost her whole life...she goes to school with their son and their daughter goes to school with D9. WW was probably "hoping" to catch me being up to no good....NOT!
WW starts with me about D12 wanting "texting" on her cellphone. D12 and I had discussed it earlier in the week. D12 is on WWs plan so the decision would be her moms I told her. Of course to WW I am the "best dad in the world" because if WW wouldn't do it I told D12 we could see if she could switch to my plan....but I even told D12 me and mom would have to talk about it. WWs version is .....mom said no....dad said yes..bah blah blah....you get the drift.

D12 and I get in the car and she goes into "hating mom". I ask her if it's just about the texting issue...she says no. I tell her once again she shoud not hate her mom. We talk a few minutes about how she feels....I don't pull stuff out of her I just kinda let her vent. WW calls her on her cell....asks why we are still in the car (you can tell because my work car needs a muffler). Yesterday was MIL b-day so D12 calls grandma to wish her a happy one. I chime in with a happy b-day myself.

We go into our friends house...watch a little TV and head home about 9:30.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/24/09 04:43 PM
Quiet weekend.....again. WW gone Friday night and Sunday night till about 10pm. I dont question her...give her dirty looks...or generally even care.

Sundays sermon at church was about "meekness"....it ws perfect! The original topic was supposed to be a guest speaker and he was sick.
Wheh the Pastor was doing his final prayer he mentioned the fact of the change and hoped it touched/helped someone.....that someone was me.

WW has not ben keeping up her end of financials at home recently. I dropped her an e-mail about it yesterday.


E-mail to her

I have not recieved a check for your portion of our families monthly expenses since jan 15 2009. I asked about this in an email to you on 2-10-2009 and you never replied. Please let me know.




Her reply

The same email, which stated that you were not concerned with cashing the check I had given you in January, led me to believe that money is not an issue for you. I had also offered to just pay the LATE payments that you have incurred on the credit cards in lieu of giving you a check. Since I do not eat any of the food in the house, unless I buy it, and the only expenses that are incurred by me are the use of water and electricity for when I am there, I intend on giving you the entire tax refund (hence the reason I had asked you repeatedly in person and email to get me your W-2). On a weekly basis I take the girls for dinner, buy
them snacks and get them items for their lunches as well as any hygiene items (I'm certain that on the 13th I even bought YOUR deodorant and had bought other things that you needed such as hair dye). I buy household toiletries (dish soap, cat food, laundry soap, etc). I had decided that the monthly expense report and receipts that I had been giving you were a waste of my time, and frankly were unnecessary as I don't ask you for a breakdown of the monthly bills to prove that you are paying them on time and not jeopardizing my credit (even though, unfortunately you
aren't paying them on time, but are "Doing the best you can".)

I had also told you that I would get you the $110. that I owe you for half of the girls activity fees, but once again, you told me to just do what I could. I have had some unforeseen legal expenses lately and that has taken away from my "discretionary" income. I'm sure you can sympathize.
I will give you a check for $150.00 this evening (the 110.00 and an additional $40 to cover any portion of the girl's groceries for the week).

Thank heavens you didn't get me fired, or who knows how I would be able to give you the small amount that I do.

Thanks for the clarification that this was from "First and Last name". I'm sure that was for the attorney's benefit so she was sure who the email came from. If she needs any copies of any other email correspondence from the last 8 months (There are so many I have often thought how do you get any work done??) I will be more than glad to get those to her as well.



WW gets to change the rules to suit themselves????? The mail made me LOL when I read it.

I never replied to it....waste of energy!!
I am beyond horrified that you live like this, Carp. Your wife is using your home as nothing more than a flop house from which she conducts her open and flagrant adultery. How sad that your girls have to watch this brazen spectacle of their mother flaunting her adultery from their home. crazy

How much longer are you going to have live like this? What is up with the legal proceedings?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 02/24/09 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I am beyond horrified that you live like this, Carp. Your wife is using your home as nothing more than a flop house from which she conducts her open and flagrant adultery. How sad that your girls have to watch this brazen spectacle of their mother flaunting her adultery from their home. crazy

How much longer are you going to have live like this? What is up with the legal proceedings?

March 9th is our next court date Mel. I only live like this for the kids rite now....I could leave alone if I wanted too...the thought has crossed my mind....

She has filed a "temp/full custody me and the kids can leave" papers as well. My attorney said she will do a "Motion to Strike and Dismiss" because her papers fail to give any reason why WW should have custody.....except during our marriage she was "primary caregiver"......lol! Soccer coach....homework guy....bbq king...rides in the convertible for ice cream....vacations to see my family WITHOUT WW...hello!!
Update us please so we know how you are.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 03/03/09 04:01 PM
Lately I have been all over the place emotionally......

Am I doing the rite thing?

Do my kids really want to live with their mom?

Why do I watch my WW do what she does.....and I still feel like I am wasting time/energy?

I was out with some friends Saturday night....I just wasn't "in to it". I had no desire to party it up! I was the DD so no drinking for me....I watched people dancing and having a good time...lots of ladies....I was actually thinking of my wife!

Sundays sermon at church.....let God deal with your mountains!! Very fitting for where I am at.

I was sharing my story with a friend and we were talking about the sermon. She asked me.....is your marriage the "mountain" or your pending D custody issues?

I honestly think I am past the marriage part.

6 more days till "d-day" court wise


I have to let God work on his part of the mountain.....I have done my part!
God know how to deal with every case. You'll be surprised by his methods. I guess I still am.
Carp,

Keep documenting. It's very important.

What kinds of accusations is she making that you have to "deny"?

Don't get too wrapped up in all of this pre-trial paperwork. I really think that less is more when it comes to family law.

Waywards are strange creatures. Keep being a good dad to your kids and they will remember.

If WW think she can take your daughter's with her to go live her new life of adultery then she's really living in a sick fantasy world.

Your daughters are older and pre-teen and teen daughters are FIERCELY protective of their fathers, especially good and involved ones.

Have faith that the justice system will be fair. It's tough to do because there are a lot of horror stories and mistakes will be made, but people will be able to see if you're a good dad and your daughters are old enough to have their say on custody.

Wayward wives are downright sick people. Keep your head up and know and understand that there are tons of good women out there and there is life after divorce.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 03/04/09 12:47 AM
Pom

Everything that any BS has ever done would be what I should "deny"!!

My problem is that WW has "demonized" me to the kids.....if they were asked to choose I think they might pick her outta fear!!

I know there are other fish in the sea....but I am still "Married".

I agree with the horror stories spooking me....


Imagine
Thanks for the kind words!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Exposure. Temp custody court date Feb 4th - 03/09/09 11:08 AM
Today is the big day......

Weekend was quiet

WW left on Saturday about 7pm....made it home in time for me to go to church on Sunday.
We were the only ones home Saturday afternoon while she was getting ready to leave. I was nervous/angry/sad all at the same time. I don't know why her actions still affect me....probably because I am doing everything rite...and she does whatever she wants.

Me and the girls spent the evening watching movies and eating McDonalds.

Late last week my attorney submitted a petition to "strike and dismiss" my WWs petition for custody. In the motion a couple state statutes were sited as to why it should be striken. The statutes talk about the lack of facts in relation to why she should have custody.

Church yesterday was good for me.....would have been perfect for ANY WS.....forgiveness. I actually started to cry!

My attorney has told me I don't need to bring any additional info to court today. I started to print stuff off yesterday....probably a waste of time.


If anyone can think of anything I am missing.....

Wish me luck!
Please update us as soon as you can.
Quote
My attorney has told me I don't need to bring any additional info to court today. I started to print stuff off yesterday....probably a waste of time.
We hired a contractor many years ago, who turned out to be a sham. He had over 100 half-finished jobs around the city while he drove around in a Corvette. He finally got caught when he did the same thing to an assistant district attorney. The lawyer prosecuting him had the case files of over 100 families who had been scammed by him. The lawyer presented ONE of those cases, and rested! I'm serious!

He thought that just saying there were over 100 families was good enough to prove his point. The jury almost let the jerk go! They luckily had a mistrial, and had to retry it. This time, the lawyer presented ALL of the evidence, even though it took several days to get through it all. The jerk ended up going to prison.

Take every bit of evidence you have. And fight your lawyer to present it.
Anxiously waiting to hear how you fared.....
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/09/09 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by Brit\'s Brat
Anxiously waiting to hear how you fared.....

Spent about ten minutes in front of the judge. WW was not there. Back and forth the attorneys go. Exposure letters were brought up but never addressed.

Judge has us on the "express train"....mediation on the 17th....next court appearance on the 25th.

Who's got any advice?

My attorney said this is where my journal/emails/activities with the kids will be important.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/09/09 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Exposure letters were brought up but never addressed.

Carp, what ABOUT the exposure letters were brought up? Is there something wrong with them?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/10/09 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Exposure letters were brought up but never addressed.

Carp, what ABOUT the exposure letters were brought up? Is there something wrong with them?

WWs attorney tried to say they were "harassing".
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/10/09 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
Exposure letters were brought up but never addressed.

Carp, what ABOUT the exposure letters were brought up? Is there something wrong with them?

WWs attorney tried to say they were "harassing".

Wow, and all this time we thought ADULTERY was "harrassing." rotflmao
Posted By: baron_richtofen Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/10/09 02:27 AM
Don't fret about that. You were telling people who might help that your wife was cheating.

That's not harassment.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/10/09 02:44 AM
Originally Posted by baron_richtofen
Don't fret about that. You were telling people who might help that your wife was cheating.

That's not harassment.


I am not sweatin it.
All my WW has are some letters, a call to the police.....and not much else!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 02:47 PM
Update

It seems that by all my research...... meditation is a win for me!

As far as I know WW does not have a place to live so all questions regarding "who spends what time where" don't apply.

WW emailed me yesterday in regards to having the girls counseler come to our court date on the 25th to speak on the girls behalf. To be an "impartial" voice.

My kids counseler works for my counseler. Since my insurance pays....they all "work" for me.
I think that kids counseler has to have permission from me to exchange any info with my wife. Unless there is abuse I think it's all confidential.

Any input is appreciated.
Posted By: catperson Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 02:57 PM
What do you think the counselor would say?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
What do you think the counselor would say?

When I first met with her she told me I needed to "get things moving" and the current situation was not healthy for my kids etc.

The last time I met with her she told me my kids would hate me if I made their mom leave. Moms and daughters have a special bond and if I want to do what's best for my kids I should let them live with her. I shouldn't disrupt their "routine"! I think I posted this a few pages back.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 03:11 PM
Quote
WW emailed me yesterday in regards to having the girls counseler come to our court date on the 25th to speak on the girls behalf. To be an "impartial" voice.

What is the purpose of this court date? Is it the trial? You really need to get THIS. Your WW is your adversary in these proceedings. If she can convince her lawyer to call this counselor as a witness, then let her. However, I would not AGREE to anything with your WW at this point.

If you already know that counselor's position as regards to custody, I would be finding ANOTHER counselor who agrees with your position, that the girls should live with you.

Stop communicating with your WW about ANYTHING to do with the legal case. Just tell her to let the A's handle it.

You still have to go to mediation and THAT's where you can negotiate with her, through your attorneys and the mediator. Don't give in at mediation and don't settle if you don't want to.

Save your strategy for trial and whatever you do don't share that strategy with WW.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 03:14 PM
That counselor does NOT sound "impartial" to me.

tl
Posted By: StillHereMakingIt Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 03:25 PM
Not sure counselor's make the best witnesses, they hear only a partial part of the story and it's not their job to investigate.
If I were you I would ask the counselor not be called so as to allow the children to continue to disclose to this person without the threat their sessions will be used in court. Sounds like it is important for the kids to have someone they can talk to...

If your court system allows it, see if the judge will appoint a CASA or Guardian Ad Litem, which will speak on behalf of the children. It is THEIR job to talk to ALL parties involved and present their opinion...they work for the judge, and speak on behalf of the children only.

In our area they are called in the case of children taken through the state, but have recently been called in for messy custody cases, where a judge is hearing differing sides.

Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 03:59 PM
Quote
If your court system allows it, see if the judge will appoint a CASA or Guardian Ad Litem, which will speak on behalf of the children. It is THEIR job to talk to ALL parties involved and present their opinion...they work for the judge, and speak on behalf of the children only.

Excellent suggestion!
Posted By: baron_richtofen Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 04:15 PM
Carp,

I would immediately withdraw my support for this counselor and find another one. Immediately!

The GAL will talk to everyone involved, including counselors.

I would point out the mom bias to the GAL and your concern over that.

The counselor can't be called as a witness unless the girls wave their right of confidentiality. Technically, the counselor can't even acknowledge that she sees your daughters without a release form.

Object to her as a witness on the ground of confidentiality for the girls.

Beware that there are a lot of mom-biased counselors out there. You have to handle the GAL very carefully. They don't want to see a bitter and angry man who rants about his ex.

Get books on Father's Rights. They are well written and coach you on how to deal with the system which is biased towards mom, but will be fair to a well prepared man.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
If your court system allows it, see if the judge will appoint a CASA or Guardian Ad Litem, which will speak on behalf of the children. It is THEIR job to talk to ALL parties involved and present their opinion...they work for the judge, and speak on behalf of the children only.

Excellent suggestion!


Already being investigated on my part.

I never agree to anything WW sends me in regards to legal stuff.

I believe mediation with my WW is gonna be a disaster....she probably won't agree to anything.

I agree with the privacy comments.

Found out WW and kids took today off.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 04:35 PM
The purpose of the court date on the 25th is to decide temp custody.

Since temp custody was contested the judge ordered us to mediation first.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
The last time I met with her she told me my kids would hate me if I made their mom leave. Moms and daughters have a special bond and if I want to do what's best for my kids I should let them live with her. I shouldn't disrupt their "routine"!

redflag Moms and Ds have a special bond so you must be chopped liver and therefore expandable. But don't worry...the counselor is looking out for you Carp. She doesn't want your Ds to hate you so she's really helping you out here. :RollieEyes:

Object. WW must know what counselor is going to say. She's not going to leave herself open to get blasted in court by her own 'witness.'
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
The purpose of the court date on the 25th is to decide temp custody.

Since temp custody was contested the judge ordered us to mediation first.

I see. This will be a CRUCIAL hearing because even though it's for TEMPORARY custody, more than likely whatever is decided here will be set in stone in the final orders.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/11/09 11:59 PM
Quote
WW emailed me yesterday in regards to having the girls counseler come to our court date on the 25th to speak on the girls behalf. To be an "impartial" voice.

I agree with PM. This counselor is hardly impartial. That should be evident by the fact that your WW wants to call her. Your WW does not have the girls best interest in mind; she only has HER best interest in mind.

Your childrens mother has scr*wed these kids up in ways that will effect them for years. She has taught them that wrong is right at the most vulnerable time of their lives. They will fumble through life until figure out that making up your own rules as you go along is a hard, hard, painful life. She is training them to be little cheating ho's like her.

Additionally, she has done her best to turn them against their dad at a time they need him most. Girls who lose their dads at this age, look for love in all the wrong places. It is a crying shame what your wife has done to those girls.

As far as mediation, I would point out that negotiating with a terrorist is never a good idea. I hope you bypass that and fight like hell for full custody of your girls. And some serious counseling to undo the immoral guidance your wife has poisoned them with.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/16/09 02:46 PM
Been a busy few days.

Counseler.....out. Counseler can't even speak in court so there is no reason for her to come!

Kids.....not going to court. This is a verbal agreement with WW.

A bit fighting over the weekend...WW said she has NEVER been happy in our marriage. I pointed to about a dozen pictures around our house of us and said " you were happy here, here, here"......one pic was when we renewed our vows in Vegas! I know...fog babble!

Yesterday I asked her where she plans on living. At first she didn't want to answer! She can't trust me....I know..LOL.

So......
Her parents own a house about 10miles away. They are gonna rent it to her temporarily. She says 4-6months then she will be back in our area.

We discussed a every other week scenario. During her weeks during school the kids will come home here until she picks them up after work. During her bush season (tax time) the kids will be with me longer. On my weeks when I have bible study, counseling etc she will watch the girls.

We talked about some plans for summer vacation, holidays etc.

She thinks she is entitled to 50% CS.....not sure why...haven't found out yet.

I think this arrangement is good for me and the kids!

During school I will see them 12 days in a row!

I think this arrangement makes me residential parent....maybe even custodial....not sure yet.

What do you guys think?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/16/09 02:57 PM
I would have your attorney ask her for alimony and child support FOR YOU. Additionally, I would have the attorney put an agreement in there that your DD's are not to be exposed to her adultery partners. Exposing girls to strange men is how young girls get molested. And your wife is clearly a very bad parent who does not have your DD's best interest at heart. The odds of them being molested or abused goes way up with her promiscuous lifestyle. It is also not good for your DD's to be taught that this is an appropriate manner for a decent woman to behave.

[u][i][b]Abuse Risk Seen Worse As Families Change[/b][/i][/u]

- Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological
parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.


- Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

- Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University. . . .

- The previous version of the study, released in 1996, concluded that children of single parents had a 77 percent greater risk of being harmed by physical abuse than children living with both parents. But the new version will delve much deeper into the specifics of family structure and cohabitation, according to project director Andrea Sedlak.

Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/16/09 03:03 PM
I agree 100% with a "no non relative romantic interest clause". I will abide by it as well. Basically it means no overnite guests of the opposite sex unless family/spouse.

As far as me NEEDING $$ from her...no thx! If the judge makes her...fine.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/16/09 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I agree 100% with a "no non relative romantic interest clause". I will abide by it as well. Basically it means no overnite guests of the opposite sex unless family/spouse.

What about daytime boyfriends? Exposing your girls to her adultery is terrible and risky for them whether the bf spends the night or not.
Posted By: baron_richtofen Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/16/09 03:58 PM
An every other week arrangement is pretty tough on the kids. One suggestion that I heard and that I like a lot is the 5 on 5 off plan because that keeps the days of the week consistent for all involved.

So you would, for example, see the kids on a Monday and Tuesday, she gets them Wed and Thurs, and then you alternate weekends. This allows you to make plans for the off days that don't change during the week.

I would also not make things too easy for her. If you have the girls more than 50% of the time, then you will be the custodial parent and she will pay YOU child support, not the other way around.

I would encourage her to give you as much time as possible and then leave the CS calculation up to the formula of the state you're in.

You'll get money as the primary caretaker, not that you necessarily want it.

I would also have confidence. The system does appear to be biased, but if you play your cards right you can win as a man and get primary custody.

You have to be prepared and smart about it.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/16/09 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
I agree 100% with a "no non relative romantic interest clause". I will abide by it as well. Basically it means no overnite guests of the opposite sex unless family/spouse.

What about daytime boyfriends? Exposing your girls to her adultery is terrible and risky for them whether the bf spends the night or not.

I agree Mel....we are still married (not according to her of course).

"The children are not to be exposed to any "significant other" while with either parent until the divorce is final".

How's that sound?

Baron.....I personally like going by the "calender weeks". 5 on 5 off will probably confuse me!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/20/09 08:25 PM
Good to see the boards are back up! Not so I can whine....just so I can vent/see myself type! LOL.

Mediation......
In by 9am out by 11amish. We agreed on everything. Joint legal/residential is the term
Holidays
Every other week scenario
The "extra" time the kids will spend with me. Some of you my say "don't be a doormat"....they way I see it I get to see my girls 12 days in a row during the school year! During her busy times of the year....approx 5 months I will see them even more!

Chances of WW living in our neighborhood.....30%. Even after her temp housing she probably won't be able to live to close.

Things around the house have been less tense lately. WW still isn't around much.

No CS was mentioned during mediation. If/when her attorney brings it up (for her) hers what I figure.....

1. I will have the kids for more "parenting hours" then her...evryday after school....till April 15th that's at least 6:30pm. During her regular hours that's till about 5:30.

2. I am currently carrying all joint debt....except her car.

3. Her housing is "presumably" free/almost free....it's family.

Personally....I can't wait to not see her everyday!

We discussed a few things via email these last few days....
NO persons of "romantic interest" when either of us are with the kids.
Summer trips we are gonna modify between us a little differently then the mediation agreement.

Couple "funny" things....
WW sent me he standard "weekend plans" emai. Sat she said if the girls weren't gonna be home she would stay elsewhere. I replied why that makes any difference now? She called it sarcasm....I said honesty!

D9 went to a friends last night....WW was all concerned about homework, chores, dinner, etc. We mail back/forth and she comments how we don't have a "real" dinner time. I tell her that for the past few months we have eaten between 5-6pm everyday...no reply.

I don't think she realizes how bad she is gonna have it! She has barely cooked a meal, done any homework, stuff like that in months!

I got my groove on already!

My kids are gonna be bored to death by "her house"! No cable, Internet, friends, stuff like that. Her grandma lives 2 doors down.....76 yrs old.....and NOT happy with WW rite now. I talked to her awhile on her B-day (Thursday).

Not much else I can think of....I am ok I guess....I have my moments....
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/20/09 11:44 PM
When does she have to get out so her family does not have a front row seat to her alley cat in heat act?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 01:01 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
When does she have to get out so her family does not have a front row seat to her alley cat in heat act?

If the paperwork isn't "official" by march 25ths court date the mediator said we could do a handwritten agreement in court stating we have an agreement and would like to move ahead.

We agreed we would start the week of march 28th being "my week" so she could get the place ready.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
We agreed we would start the week of march 28th being "my week" so she could get the place ready.

Get what place ready? Her new home? Does she have a place to move to?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
We agreed we would start the week of march 28th being "my week" so she could get the place ready.

Get what place ready? Her new home? Does she have a place to move to?

She is renting a house owned by her parents about 10 miles away. She says it's temporary and she will be moving back to the district. I am going to insert a clause that she has to move back by the first of the year.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 02:30 PM
yippee!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 03:30 PM
Your reply makes me smile Mel!

Whatcha thnk of my plan so far?
Doormat?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
2. I am currently carrying all joint debt....except her car.

what debts would she get? Would this be split up? What about insurance, etc? She would have to pay her own car insurance and any other bills, right?

Does her Gma know your WW is busting up the family for her adulterous affair?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
2. I am currently carrying all joint debt....except her car.

what debts would she get? Would this be split up? What about insurance, etc? She would have to pay her own car insurance and any other bills, right?

Does her Gma know your WW is busting up the family for her adulterous affair?

As far as the debts....I was just "thinking out loud". The legal system may make me give her some $$.....I was just using the joint debt I pay rite now as a way to say to the judge.....if she truly is entitled to some $....shouldn't we be realistic about her lack of contributing to our families debt? She does pay for her (technically our) car. I dropped myself off our insurance last year so she is on her own with that.

Gma.....she is absolutely sick to death about what is happening! Gma is VERY dependent on WWs family so she doesn't make many waves.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 04:38 PM
Is she helping to pay the family debts? What about mortgage? utilities? What about all that? Will she have to pay you alimony and CS?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Is she helping to pay the family debts? What about mortgage? utilities? What about all that? Will she have to pay you alimony and CS?

The correct one word answer is no. Reality is "kind of". She was giving me a spreadsheet monthly totalling $1000 in expenses. Kids clothes, odd Dr bill, food, stuff like that. Since jan 1 I have received aprrox $1000 total.

As far as paying me.....if the courts make her.....if not I make almost twice what she does....I am fine.

Rite now we are in the "temp" stage. Not the financial part
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Is she helping to pay the family debts? What about mortgage? utilities? What about all that? Will she have to pay you alimony and CS?

The correct one word answer is no. Reality is "kind of". She was giving me a spreadsheet monthly totalling $1000 in expenses. Kids clothes, odd Dr bill, food, stuff like that. Since jan 1 I have received aprrox $1000 total.

What was she giving you a spreadsheet for? I mean, the kids live with you and have lived with you all this time. i am very confused.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/21/09 05:26 PM
I made her pay to live at home. Her spreadsheet was $$ and what she paid.

Dentist...$43
Food.....$80

Stuff like that. We agreed on a 70/30 split of everything $ wise. Her portion was/is $1000
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/24/09 03:03 PM
I cannot wait to "get on" with my life!!

Sat nite I had a party at the Carp house.....minus WW of course. It was a family party....5 adults and about 8 kids. We BBQ, drank, had a bonfire....the kind of party we used to have a few times a year. I did have a "twinge" of missing WW....overall I was very happy!

I have this ability to "live" around WW rite now....kinda wierd.

She knew about the party....even started cleaning up some stuff....I told her not to worry about it.

She had bought some chicken breasts and brats a week ago.....offered for us to eat them...I said no...those are hers. She made a comment about stuff not being "hers"....it was everyones.....she brought up how I don't save her any food...I referenced her email not to save her a plate for dinner and she doesn't want to eat as a "family".....and went about my business.

Me and the kids met her Sunday about noon for lunch. WW and I wanted to talk to the kids together about the upcoming living arrangements. The girls were talking about the party....WW commented that we weren't having a "family" meal but more of a meeting. The kids seemed "ok" with the arrangement....time will tell.

I met with my IC last night. I had a long day of work/soccer practice etc. She commented that I seemed good. We talked about some of the stuff WW had been doing lately and saying.....IC shakes her head. IC said WW has no clue what she is in store for in the near future. I on the other hand have had plenty of "practice".
IC said overall as far as the D is concerned I am doing and gonna be ok. How many men.....keep there home? See there kids ALOT? Have as much control as I do?
I told IC I can't wait for my first weekend alone! I thought it seemed selfish...she said no.

Tomorrow morning is court....it should go smooth...
Posted By: catperson Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/24/09 04:17 PM
Good luck!
Posted By: Verve Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/24/09 05:56 PM
Good luck, Carp. I'm still reading and keeping up with your situation. You are doing amazing! :-)
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/24/09 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Verve
Good luck, Carp. I'm still reading and keeping up with your situation. You are doing amazing! :-)

Thx Verve that means alot to me.

Something strange that just happened....I asked WW if she would be team mom for D9s soccer team.....and she said yes....ugh!


I think I am doing a plan A straight to plan D.....and I feel good about it!

Is it wrong?
Posted By: black_raven Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/24/09 07:00 PM
Good luck tomorrow Carp.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/25/09 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Good luck tomorrow Carp.

Thx BR

My lawyer emailed me last night saying she received the paperwork from the mediator.
We emailed back and forth abit and she made some legal papers out of it for court this afternoon. NO mention of CS. She did put that my address would be the address used for school registration. I have not said anything about it to WW....maybe my lawyer is gonna try to spring it on her and her lawyer in the hallway? Not sure.

It also states that this agreement is not 100% but is just a guideline for what the final papers will say.
Posted By: Verve Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/25/09 10:32 PM
I hope that everything went well, Carp. Keep us updated.

I've got my fingers crossed for ya! :-)
Posted By: imagine Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/26/09 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
She had bought some chicken breasts and brats a week ago.....offered for us to eat them...I said no...those are hers. She made a comment about stuff not being "hers"....it was everyones.....she brought up how I don't save her any food...I referenced her email not to save her a plate for dinner and she doesn't want to eat as a "family".....and went about my business.

I want to share this item with you for your plan A. Share her food and yours. This is a token of goodwill. This is called hospitality.

Not taking her food is like already enforcing the divorce.

There is a story of two young suitors who were seeking approval from the girls father to court her.
The first suitor arranged for a skiing accident to happen to the father. The dude rescued dad. Dad avoided him later as he was embarrassed by the accident.
The second suitor arranged that the accident happen to himself and contrived that the father rescue him. Dad was always helpful to second suitor as the incident reminded him of his heroism recovering the young lad.

Choose the path of second suitor.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/26/09 10:36 AM
Imagine

I never deny her anything that I purchase.....I don't even mention it. I even offer it to her and let her decide.


I guess I was simply "reverse fog babbling" her......she had specifically stated once in an email about NOT saving her dinner, eating HER food, etc.


I will update legal proceedings later....I gotta get to work first!

Let's just say.....I am smiling!


Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/26/09 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Carp54
I will update legal proceedings later....I gotta get to work first!

Let's just say.....I am smiling!

We'll be waiting.... (drumming fingers on desk)
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/26/09 04:41 PM
My phone crashed and I lost a great post!

Short story

WW moves out march 28th.

Her lawyer came up with CS like this.....
Her full custody I pay 1100 per month
Me full custody she pays 650 per
Difference 450 paid to her based on 50/50
The reality is more like 60/40-65/35 because of WWs work schedule and what we discussed in mediation. So far no "official" $ has been set. I emailed my lawyer a better description of how it's not really 50/50 this morning.

Financials......
Annuity....10,000 to her after taxes/fees
Equity.......approx 12-14,000 depending on appraisal. Mine will be low....she can get her own.

Debt.....approx 13,000 total. 6500 is "hers".

24-7=17,000 approx for WW.

Any other questions.....my thumbs hurt!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 12:34 PM
She gone!

Saturday night was her last night sleepng at home.

Sunday was moving day....and the weather was less then ideal in the Midwest. I woke up at 8am and we had horizontal "heart attack" snow till about 10am. WW actually commented how the weather crappy! I made a very casual comment about how the "karma bus" was coming by! I got a bit of a nasty glance.....

I helped her load her van for the first trip. I went about my normal Sunday routine after that. We crossed paths in the afternoon when I got back from grocery shopping.

She took the girls out for dinner last night. After that it was just me and my girls for the evening. I had both girls alarms set, clothes laid out, and a brief "meeting" about how the mornings will be this week.
This morning my dad was at my house at 5:20.....10mins early. I had coffee ready, girls lunches made. He asked where my timeline list was....I told him I was lazy last night and didn't make it. He flipped open his laptop and started with the questions....times girls get up, leave for school, etc. WW will be taking D9 to school at about 7:30 and D12 walks to the bus stop at 8am.

I have been lazy with my lazy journal lately but this week I will start again everyday.

While I was watching TV last night I actually missed WW....only lasted about 10mins....
I put out a coffee cup for WW....don't ask me why.....
Posted By: sunshine01 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 12:46 PM
I am sorry for the split, what about the girls, she is just to go about her life, leave you with the girls and play mother?
Posted By: catperson Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 12:46 PM
{{{carp}}} I'm happy for you and sad for you at the same time. Is that possible?

You seem like a great guy; I'm sure someone is going to come along some day and see what a great catch you are and snatch you up before anyone else can.

Love that your dad is helping the way he is. Your daughters are lucky to have both of you.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by sunshine01
I am sorry for the split, what about the girls, she is just to go about her life, leave you with the girls and play mother?

She has been "playing mother" for at least a year now....

We have a every other week arrangement rite now.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
{{{carp}}} I'm happy for you and sad for you at the same time. Is that possible?

You seem like a great guy; I'm sure someone is going to come along some day and see what a great catch you are and snatch you up before anyone else can.

Love that your dad is helping the way he is. Your daughters are lucky to have both of you.


Happy and sad....I understand 100%!

Honestly....I don't wanna be "snatched up" rite now! LOL.
My dad left when I was 6.....I am actually proud of him for stepping up!
Posted By: sunshine01 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 01:05 PM
What does she think is in stored for her? Life is just fun and games. You sound like a very patient man, and just what a good woman needs. Is she in an affair, I did not read your thread.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by sunshine01
What does she think is in stored for her? Life is just fun and games. You sound like a very patient man, and just what a good woman needs. Is she in an affair, I did not read your thread.

Yes the affair is still alive

Posted By: sunshine01 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 02:09 PM
have you busted the affair, does the om know you know?
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 03/30/09 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by sunshine01
have you busted the affair, does the om know you know?

Yes and yes
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/02/09 03:40 PM
DO NOT SHARE ANYTHING ANYTIME WITH MY STBX!!!!

My mom is gonna email this to me everyday!!

Monday....started good....kids are a little "wierded out" by grandpa being there in the morning. Soccer practice Monday night was freezing so I cut it short.

Tuesday....kids were "sick"....my original plan on my weeks was for the kids to go to my cousins if they were sick. WW whined about it and the girls stayed home alone. While we were talking about where the kids where gonna go she was pissed because my dad was gonna do it! She insisted I come home from work and do it.....

We were chatting about $ after we got the kid thing square. I was telling her how much the refi on the house was gonna save me.....note to self....follow moms advice!! She is not happy Carp will be sitting pretty after the big D! She tried to start in on the whole CS thing....not a peep outta me.

Wednesday....perfect day. Got home from work, made dinner, did homework, regular stuff. D9 and I had an agreement that if she kept up with the cats for a month....we would "look" at puppies on April 1st. We hit a couple pet stores, we looked at puppies, cats, fish, hampsters......no birds. We did not go home with a pet!

Found out this morning that "pre-trial" is April 9th......trying to get prepped for that.


Do not share anything anytime with STBX....repeat.....repeat!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/02/09 04:00 PM
I bumped a thread for you ...

The Art of War by Sun Tzu
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/02/09 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
I bumped a thread for you ...

The Art of War by Sun Tzu

LOL....thx!

Sometimes I forget.....the little "V" between our names on that special piece of paper.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/06/09 02:54 PM
"lil Carps" went with their mom yesterday about 1pm.

I spent a few hours listening to loud, non kid appropriate music, and organizing some stuff at "la casa del Carp"!

I organized my walk-in closet.....work clothes on 1 side....nice clothes on the other. WW still has some of her stuff on a part of 1 side. I used too look at her stuff "longingly".....now it's just in my way!

I am almost 100% done with laundry....even the socks!

I put liners in mostof my kitchen cabinets/drawers....the damp plates and glasses have been leaving water marks....a project I have been planning awhile. D12 wanted to know why I was doing it (she was bored after only being gone an hour or so). I told her "I with teach you why one day my young padawan"...she thought my star wars reference was corny!

Had dinner out with my old apprentice and some ladies! I think younger girls are intimidated by me!

I'm a dad
I have my own home
I have more "stuff" probably then their parents!

I was on FB last night chatting with a husband of a friend of WW....they both had no clue as to the real reason for the D...imagine that! We are still gonna maintain our friendship in spite of WW.

This morning I hatched an "evil" plan.....

It snowed here yesterday. I shoveled the drive from the garage to the back door. My car was in the street. I brushed off most of my car in the street.....pulled it in the driveway....and brushed off the rest.

I left my bed a mess....the whole thing....

WW drops D12 off at "home" (I always call my house home) about 20mins before D12 catches the bus.

No soccer practice tonite....too cold, too snowy, to windy for D9 and the team.

The girls will come home after school, eat, do homework, their momshould be there around 7 to get them for "her week".


Sounds boring (I'm sure Mel would like more action)!!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/06/09 02:58 PM
Something I forgot.....

Pre-trial is this Thursday.

My lawyer e-mailed me some "notes" for it yesterday.
Posted By: SIHW Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/06/09 03:29 PM
Wow carp it's good to read your so proactive around the house. Can I hire you to come do mine next...I have a few projects that need doin that I can't do because of the side effects from my antibiotics.
Posted By: catperson Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/06/09 03:46 PM
Quote
It snowed here yesterday.
lol, I was laying out by the (outdoor) pool at our gym yesterday.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/06/09 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by SIHW
Wow carp it's good to read your so proactive around the house. Can I hire you to come do mine next...I have a few projects that need doin that I can't do because of the side effects from my antibiotics.

Don't think I have always been this way! Yes I am a "project guy".....did they get done to WWs standards? No.....it was hard to do because of the "harping". Now that I don't have that.....I enjoy it more!


I have a list of stuff.....
Change furniture around
Re-tile master bath
Re paint
Organize MY garage (I love this part!)


I guess I can fit yours in....gimmie a call in 2010! LOL


Posted By: Carp54 Re: Mediation on the 17th - 04/06/09 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Quote
It snowed here yesterday.
lol, I was laying out by the (outdoor) pool at our gym yesterday.

My mom and sister got sunburned yesterday.....I told her to go to $/@&$!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: The home stretch..... - 04/09/09 06:21 PM
Sat at the courthouse for a couple hrs. Lawyers did their "pre-trial thing. Me and WW did not even participate.

Lawyers came out about 45mins later.

Here's the deal.....
All assets and debts 50/50....no brainer!

I am gonna have to pay WW something. $450 per month...our income disparity and the law....can't argue!

Our next date is about 6 weeks away.

My attorney tried to put a date on WWs moving back into school district. The judge wanted to use the term "intends on". Some chat with family came up with this....for the good of the girls we should set a date. At home D12 wakes up at 7am and is out the door at 8 to catch the bus. At WWs house (rite now) they have to be out the door by 7:20ish. Maybe a letter stating these kinda facts will help "sway" the judge?

I had a cleaning crew come in yesterday. Damn they can clean!! Place looks/smells great! WWs mom and grandma came yesterday to pick up the girls. We were sitting down for dinner when they showed up. I invited them to stay...and they did. We spent about 25mins eating and chatting. When they were leaving WWs grandma grabbed my hand....and gave it a "I love you grandson" kinda squeeze.


All in all I think life is gonna be good!

I am gonna save $500+ per month on bills, I get to see my girls ALOT, personally I feel GREAT, and that cheating, good for nothin......I'll stop.....is that much closer to gone!!

Sure I gotta pay her some $....it's for my kids...who do you think spent the evening texting his kids last night? Easy answer huh! They were with their mom....but were "chatting" with me!

That's about it...questions?? Comments?
Posted By: catperson Re: The home stretch..... - 04/09/09 08:38 PM
Just that I'm really proud of you. Long way away from when you first came here. Your kids are lucky to have you.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: The home stretch..... - 04/10/09 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by catperson
Just that I'm really proud of you. Long way away from when you first came here. Your kids are lucky to have you.

Thx Cat! This whole mess started in June 08. I was a TOTAL basket case for along time. A couple FRs, anger, suicidal thoughts, depression, blaming myself.

I started at DB forums and reading the book in about aug 08. Fix yourself, wait out the A was their motto. I fixed....and fixed....and fixed....but I got tired of waiting! One of the members brought up exposure....but I was scared to death.

Fast forward to today.....NOTHING scares me!!

I saw WW twice today. Once at D12s ortho appt, I looked good, big smile, chatty, funny. She just left with the girls...I offered her some leftovers....made some Kool Aid....told her I poisoned it!! She said "i would be driving the kids...wouldnt that be bad?" i told her it was fast acting and she would drop before the driveway!! Itold her I really want the van!! LOL! Her presence does not phase me one bit....maybe I will text her and see if she is sleepy??
Posted By: Verve Re: The home stretch..... - 04/10/09 01:50 AM
Carp,

I agree with CP, you have come sooo far since I first began reading your thread. I'm very glad that you get so much time with your children. They appreciate it now, but they will appreciate the time you took with them and appreciate YOU more and more as they grow. Best wishes!!!

Posted By: Carp54 Re: The home stretch..... - 04/22/09 03:08 AM
I can't believe how long since I last posted!!

This week is my "off week". I see the girls after work and before there mom gets them.

Had a couple issues last week with the girls....

They had some idea that the other one was my "favorite"....kinda got me worked up abit. We talked it out....after I sent them to their rooms for a bit so I could cool off.

D12 expressed some things about OM...he's a dork, fat, not good looking. She asked me "why would he want to be with a cheater?"....tough questions from a 12yr old!

I introduced my kids to some new people. I reconnected with an old friend on FB. He and his wife are on their second marriages....6 kids between them!! I was leary at first....about my kids meeting "new" people. D9 was the most against it but seems to have warmed up.

Socially....I am doing well! No "significant other"....but I am not dead!

Doing some changes around the house....decorating, moving furniture....stuff like that.

Moneys ok but tight when my refi and the big D are done I will be MUCH better off.

WW and I had a chat yesterday. She wants to know why we can't "be friends"...I told her she didn't really want to go there...but we did a bit. I was ok at the end of the talk. I used to be totally drained....not anymore!

One thing she did say.....she was commenting on my changes over the last 8 months....she said I must have been "holding back" during our marriage! I talked to my mom about it. Moms thoughts....I was being HELD back!

Not much else really. Couple jabs here and there from WW...water off a ducks back mostly for me.

Actions speak loudest.....I must be screaming!!!

Posted By: Verve Re: The home stretch..... - 04/22/09 03:13 AM
Hey, I was just wondering how you were doing. Glad to read that all is going well.
hurray
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: The home stretch..... - 04/22/09 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
WW and I had a chat yesterday. She wants to know why we can't "be friends"...I told her she didn't really want to go there...but we did a bit. I was ok at the end of the talk. I used to be totally drained....not anymore!

Howdy, carp, I am so very proud of you for getting away from that horrific scene! Good job!

And you know why she wants you to be a "friend," right? She needs to keep you around to meet her needs because the OM can't possibly meet all her needs. I bet if you went into Plan B, she would go stark raving nuts to try and get back in touch with you. The reason being that the OM can't fill the shoes you left.

Have you considered going into plan B to get away from her altogether? You would be amazed at how much better you will feel when you have NO contact.
Posted By: Carp54 Re: The home stretch..... - 04/22/09 03:29 AM
Thx Verve!!

Mel...
I am in a non plan B plan B. I never wrote the letter...I do not persue her in anyway. I have actually been asking her when she is gonna get the rest of her stuff!!

She called me yesterday....when we did talk I was very calm and non emotional. Every "thing" she brought up....exposure....failures in our marriage..stuff like that I answered very analitically.

I barely e-mail her at all!
Posted By: Carp54 Re: The home stretch..... - 04/22/09 03:32 AM
When I do talk to her or see her I am very polite. She complimented me about stuff around the house....when I didn't have the "correct" response in her eyes...she had to start throwing out some crap.

A true plan B would be nearly impossible. Kids are split time wise between us.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: The home stretch..... - 04/22/09 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by Carp54
A true plan B would be nearly impossible. Kids are split time wise between us.

Its alot easier than you think. We have folks with 2 and 3 yr olds who do very dark Plan B's. People with kids do it every day. I promise you she would not like losing control of you if you did. Staying in touch with her like this gives her a little FIX and keeps you roped into her crap.
Posted By: catperson Re: The home stretch..... - 04/22/09 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Carp54
A true plan B would be nearly impossible. Kids are split time wise between us.

Its alot easier than you think. We have folks with 2 and 3 yr olds who do very dark Plan B's. People with kids do it every day. I promise you she would not like losing control of you if you did. Staying in touch with her like this gives her a little FIX and keeps you roped into her crap.
Agree! Think about it!
Posted By: rainbowmomof2 Re: The home stretch..... - 04/30/09 12:30 PM
Update us when you can!!
Posted By: rainbowmomof2 Re: The home stretch..... - 05/11/09 10:55 AM
Are you ok?
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