I will start off by saying that I have been married for 4 and half years now. During these 4 years I thought we were happy..and secure in our relationship. We always talked openly about sex..and attractive men and women. I am a bi curious woman so I have always wanted to experiment sexually with a a female. So I ended up finding a friend to experiment with. Mind you this was not a close friend AT ALL! As time passed my husband and I decided to experiment with this girl together. During the "act" I was not jealous...things went fine! But...here is my big mess up....there were no rules! He should have not been allowed to speak to her afterward...and it should have only happened one time instead of 3! This girl became increasingly close to both of us. So one day I said NO MORE! It's over... sorry(nicely). Of course when I told my husband he thought I was being crazy. But agreed to do whatever makes me happy and END IT! Well turns out he had not ended it...he spoke with her everyday behind my back for a month in a half until he broke down and told me. I would also like to add that my husband has a severe mental disorder/ bipolar. I never knew how deep into this he was until recently.

So after he confessed to me about his "talking". We decided to fix our relationship. He would try...everyday...but I would still ask him questions...and of course get lied to or get a fraction of the real truth. He once again claimed to BE OVER her and to NOT BE TALKING to HER! Well last week on New Years Eve...I typed her name in on a random search on a popular blogging site...and OUT POPPED EVERY MESSAGE SHE HAD EVER SENT HIM!!! They were brutal, she was saying she loved him, she cant get away from him, giving him an ultimatum to choose me or her, setting up times to meet. I was disgusted!!! I called him in the room and screamed at him! I showed him the messages and read them OUT LOUD SO HE CAN HEAR HOW DISGUSTING IT SOUNDS!! I was so hurt...he had told me he was going to work on our marriage...and was really showing progress...then I find this!!!!!???? One good thing came from this, one I caught him, 2 ... her messages had said he had ignored 6 of her messages, and 3 he finally confessed to HIS ADDICTION TO HER AND Women online! He has been kissing some serious behind lately. This time I am switching things up...the first time I talked about it and questioned him EVERY DAY! Of course I got false answers...so I'M DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS CRAP...I'M DONE BEING LIED TO! Also I am not checking all of his accounts and internet history...I am working on myself to become a better person. So he can see that I am at my most fabulous! Yes, I still want to be married to him...I love him and he loves me. I just don't understand how he can hurt me!!! I do everything for him!!! Everything! I make love to him every night, I listen to him, I tell him I love him, I compliment him, thank him for doing things for me and I spend ALL OF MY TIME WITH HIM! I don't get it..when I ask him what I can do to change myself. He says,"nothing, I will let u know if I find something". He also says he does not need anything extra from me. Then what else can it be besides his addiction to this girl??

He says he does not have feelings for her, he is addicted to her, he hates everything about her.

bump!

help please!

FW....you may want to have the Mod's move this to the GQII thread where there is more traffic.

thank u!

I will start off by saying that I have been married for 4 and half years now. During these 4 years I thought we were happy..and secure in our relationship. We always talked openly about sex..and attractive men and women. I am a bi curious woman so I have always wanted to experiment sexually with a a female. So I ended up finding a friend to experiment with. Mind you this was not a close friend AT ALL! As time passed my husband and I decided to experiment with this girl together. During the "act" I was not jealous...things went fine! But...here is my big mess up....there were no rules! He should have not been allowed to speak to her afterward...and it should have only happened one time instead of 3! This girl became increasingly close to both of us. So one day I said NO MORE! It's over... sorry(nicely). Of course when I told my husband he thought I was being crazy. But agreed to do whatever makes me happy and END IT! Well turns out he had not ended it...he spoke with her everyday behind my back for a month in a half until he broke down and told me. I would also like to add that my husband has a severe mental disorder/ bipolar. I never knew how deep into this he was until recently.

So after he confessed to me about his "talking". We decided to fix our relationship. He would try...everyday...but I would still ask him questions...and of course get lied to or get a fraction of the real truth. He once again claimed to BE OVER her and to NOT BE TALKING to HER! Well last week on New Years Eve...I typed her name in on a random search on a popular blogging site...and OUT POPPED EVERY MESSAGE SHE HAD EVER SENT HIM!!! They were brutal, she was saying she loved him, she cant get away from him, giving him an ultimatum to choose me or her, setting up times to meet. I was disgusted!!! I called him in the room and screamed at him! I showed him the messages and read them OUT LOUD SO HE CAN HEAR HOW DISGUSTING IT SOUNDS!! I was so hurt...he had told me he was going to work on our marriage...and was really showing progress...then I find this!!!!!???? One good thing came from this, one I caught him, 2 ... her messages had said he had ignored 6 of her messages, and 3 he finally confessed to HIS ADDICTION TO HER AND Women online! He has been kissing some serious behind lately. This time I am switching things up...the first time I talked about it and questioned him EVERY DAY! Of course I got false answers...so I'M DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS CRAP...I'M DONE BEING LIED TO! Also I am not checking all of his accounts and internet history...I am working on myself to become a better person. So he can see that I am at my most fabulous! Yes, I still want to be married to him...I love him and he loves me. I just don't understand how he can hurt me!!! I do everything for him!!! Everything! I make love to him every night, I listen to him, I tell him I love him, I compliment him, thank him for doing things for me and I spend ALL OF MY TIME WITH HIM! I don't get it..when I ask him what I can do to change myself. He says,"nothing, I will let u know if I find something". He also says he does not need anything extra from me. Then what else can it be besides his addiction to this girl??

He says he does not have feelings for her, he is addicted to her, he hates everything about her.

I don't think a marriage building site that supports the concept of a M being of 2 people not 3, regardless that each spouse gave "permission" to the other spouse to commit adultery on occassion for reasons of experimentation, is going to provide you much help. You have essentially volunteered yourself to an "open" marriage via your own actions.

fw,

Can you see how acting out your "bi curiosity" fantasy has caused the nightmare you now find yourself in? "Fun," until it turned into something else for him. Now you're both miserable.

Marriage, by definition, is TWO people. Exclusively. Is that now YOUR personal definition of marriage? If not, you're in for more heartache.

Read up on meeting each other's emotional needs, love busters, and the other stuff on the MB home page. Then implement what you learn. If you BOTH change your behavior, devote yourselves only to each other, you can get things on a great track for life.

Blessings on your journey back.

Right Here Waiting

I understand what u are saying... I really do...and yes I admit and have many many many times...that yes the fact that they couldnt stop talking was my fault!!!! But...he confessed to me...and swore to me that he would never hurt me let alone speak to her again...and we began to rebuild our marriage. He had sworn to change...and that it was over...well turns out this girl just wanted my husband to leave me for her...and is in love with him now. This all would have been done long ago if ppl had respect...and kept promises. This stopped being about me a long time ago.

Thank u... I have said to him that I will NEVER DO ANY Sexual experimentation again!!! Yes, it kills me and I am paying for it...but I have also excepted it and moved on. We were both new to these things...It was all out of curiosity...and now we are paying!!

nothing else to say?

Other than you both chose to defile your marriage.....

No.

How? Are you still willing to RISK your marriage to stay in a swinging lifestyle?

How old are you both?

Any children?

What are you doing to "fix" your relationship?

we were only doing the "swinging" thing for about 3 weeks. It has been over since the first week of october! Yes I regret it and I know it was wrong...no...I will not do it again. This stopped being about me a long time ago.
Also we do have children and are in our early twenties. He is very unexperienced with other women and is HOOKED! Also I might like to add...that it certainly is not because, she is better in bed...or more attractive. Sorry not to sound vain...but she is not!

Also I am no longer asking questions, I just ask him if there is anything he needs from me, I am meditating and walking away from fights instead of prolonging them. He is doing his best to keep busy at work instead of looking at profiles on blogging sites. He is helping more then ever around the house. He is also finaly letting me say things I need to say about this girl... before he used to stick up for her...not anymore...he knows she is a bad person now!

Then I suggest that you start by reading ALL the articles on this site and encouraging your WH to do the same.

He'll need to send her a No Contact letter with your approval and you mail it. There are samples on this site.

Start by reading the articles to the right under most popular links.

Sounds like you both have a lot of growing up to do. Starting off your marriage like this was bad but not fatal.

Thank u...we almost did an "it's over" call. But I thought it would be too dangerous. He does not like hurting girls feelings...except mine! He already told her it is over in person...and I also wrote a very nice...email to her...I did not curse...I just made her realize, that one day she will be married...and one day this will happen to her. So watch out for karma! Also, I told her how he really feels about her! He read it and was like WOW THAT IS AMAZING! I told her to wake up and realize that u cant base a relationship on sex and liking similar music. Yes really...she is that immature...that...is the only thing she can see past.

And after the NC letter.....NO CONTACT will mean NO CONTACT for both of you. NO ONE communicates in any way with her. She has to be out of both of your lives if your marriage is to survive.

You should have experimented before you made a commitment by getting married.

You ever see this movie? Wikipedia Link to movie

They decided to try the exact same you did, with the same disastrous results.

It doesn't matter that you didnt agree to any rules regarding this "threesome", because you broke the rules set when you got married.

I know my post isnt offering any "advice" per se, just my negative comments, but I really do hope you can undo the damage that both of you have done to your union.

F_W,

Have you ever heard the term "you cannot unring a bell" ?

You had an affair with this woman BEFORE you and your H had the threesome, what message did that send to your H?

You two did not set boundaries before you tried this. Doesn't that tell you how little EITHER of you valued your marriage?

YOu say your H should be more strongly attracted to you because of her skills in bed and looks, right? But, if you read the articles on this site, you will quickly realize that something clearly attracted him to her, what was it?

You seem to not realize that many things go into a successful marriage with sex and beauty being only a few of those things, and as time moves on they often are found to be very unimportant.

It is nice of you to have quit yelling at him, but have apologized to him for YOUR affair with this woman? Have you discussed how you failed to keep your vows? Have you decided if you want to maintain the "bi-curious" lifestyle. Most men feel they can compete with another man, but if there is another woman, they have no chance. Did your H feel this way?

You say he has issues with bi-polar, how is this being addressed?

Please do as recommended, read the articles on this site. You will learn alot.

God Bless,

JL

fw,

Nasty way to learn a lesson, for sure.

You and H can get some really good help from the material and books on this site. Work the program, get yourselves straight, and watch what happens.

We're pulling for you.

Right Here Waiting

In your post you ask not to be judged. I can understand this. My question is, why are you judging your husband? Through your whole post you accept no responsibility for what has happened. You basically brought a cancer into your marriage and now you complain because it hurts. You are acting like you were betrayed. There is no betrayal here. You got what you wanted and now you are unable to control it. You broke the rules of marriage and then you complain that he got more attached to the sex object that you tempted him with and now he has bonded with her. How inconsiderate of him.

This is my opinion. Don't scream at him anymore. What you need to do is sit down with your husband and accept full responsibility. You need to say. I was so wrong for bringing this into our marriage and it is destroying me. I love you so very much and am so sorry for this situation. But I cannot go on with this. I realize that it is ALL my fault and I am asking you to forgive me for this. I am also asking for the sake of our marriage that you go with me to marriage counseling so we can work through this. I need you to recommit to me completely as I recommit myself to you. We need to have total transparency from now on. No secret e-mail accounts or cell phones. For the sake of our marriage you need to break off all communications with the other woman. I know you have become attached to her. But there is no room for anyone between you and me, however she came to be there. I will do what ever I can to restore our love and our marriage and hope that you will be just as committed to the same.

Now from an investigative stand point you need to install a keylogger on your computer so you can monitor communication. Only God knows if you can save your marriage. I am hoping that things do work out between you.

I know many people who have engaged in 'alternative' behaviour in marriage. This can include swinging, threesomes, group sex, voyeurism, etc. Unfortunately, most of the people I know who have engaged in this type of behaviour end up getting slapped in the face. Some of us can mentally prepare ourselves with sharing our partner but ultimately it does not prepare us to deal with the residual -- that being jealousy.

Accept that it happened and that you were a pivotal part in the reason why it started. You are both aware that it hurt your marriage more than helped it. If OW is still looming, your marriage cannot recover. Your H should make an earnest effort to overcome his addiction. The best thing you can do is be compassionate towards him to help him overcome his addiction.

You made up the game, invited others to play, and then decided to switch rules mid-game.

You opened Pandora's box, and don't know how to shut it again.

It's a sickening story, and the sad thing is neither you or H show any morals whatsoever, and your little children are the victims. I feel sorry for them having to live in a home with sick sexual games going on.

Do you have (stable) family that would be willing to take custody of the children, while you two finish growing up? You could get good jobs and mail child support to the caretakers, and pray for your children to have a chance at learning right from wrong.

Thank you, I really appreciate it.

Thank u ...but I already excepted this A MILLION TIMES! I already apologized...and taken responsibility...yes A MILLION TIMES. I also had a huge break down...where I sobbed my eyes out...and begged him to forgive me for poisioning our marriage.

The way I raise my children is absolutely none of your business. Also you have no idea how much money we make...so why would u make a statement like," you can get a good job" ?? You have no idea who I am , where I am from, what my morals are, which are good, they just got a little messed up for a few minutes out of sheer curiosity, but my morals have returned and are the same as they always have been. Yeah, people experiment now a days...married or single. Yes I have already admitted I was wrong...and the only reason I judge my H is because, we made promises to each other...that were broken MANY TIMES! This stopped being about the THREESOME A LONG TIME AGO!

f_w,

That did seem a bit harsh, but perhaps keepitreal is just coming from another place and doesn't realize that you've already owned up to your mistake and want to move on.

Please read the material this site has to offer, get some of the books and work through them (His Needs Her Needs, Surviving An Affair, Love Busters). They are all part of a PLAN to move you from where you are to where you want to be.

There are a lot of people here who have been through the pain of infidelity, from both sides--wayward and betrayed. I'm sure you will be able to use what most of them have to offer.

Do not be discouraged. Dig down deep, and tackle the work you need to do. We'll be here to cheer you on.

RHW

You are not being honest when you say "Your morals just got messed up for a few minutes" as per your direct quote :

" I am a bi curious woman so [b]I have always wanted to experiment sexually with a a female.[/b]"

You've obviously had moral problems for a long time, and you are upset because your husband's feelings are no longer under your control.

Carrying on sexual games is at complete odds with being a good parent, so at least during the time you were researching and exploring and planning and fantasizing about your gamnes, you were not being a good parent.

And no, this has not stopped being about the threesome. You want to think that, but it isn't the case.

And don't think for a minute I am putting all the blame on you. Your husband is also at fault for participating in the sickness you introduced him to.

Are you both adults?

So uhm, what you're sayin' is - sex is only for procreation.

No researching and planning cruises, people - unless it's Disney. Wait, Disney has adults-only areas. That's bad, some parent might think about sex!

No going out dancing either. Might lead to sex. Which is okay ONLY if it's for procreation. But if you've already procreated - hang up the dancin' shoes.

Don't watch tv either. Or read books.

No more reindeer games.....

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I am talking about taking away time from your children to plan adultery, which destroys familes, not taking time to build a marriage.

C'mon, peeps. We're not here to score points off each other.

Can't we express our thoughts more respectfully, like mature adults?

Can you relocate to another area and start fresh?

I guess you need to read a lot here. And figure out what NO CONTACT means. Neither of you should EVER have contact with this other woman again. Not telephone. Not work. Not e-mail. Not mail. Just send her a no-contact notice then block any and every way she can reach you. And that's just for starters.

we would LOVE TO RELOCATE! We are relocating in March but that is only a few miles up the road. How ever the OW is relocating around that time also..but to North Cali.

We had originally blocked her from our emails, changed numbers, and blocked her again from blogging sites. But my H made a fake name and began to watch OW( I of course did not know about this). So I assumed....that there was NO CONTACT! I sent her an email last week...to inform her that I KNOW EVERYTHING and that he IS NOT LEAVING ME! I also told her what he tells me about her...and he also says he hates her. But is addicted to her! She said she knows this and she is done( I can't believe what that person has to say). He has already told her twice if not more that he will never leave me for her. I just don't understand...if he wont leave me for her and has no feelings for her. Then why was it even worth it????

He said he has already deleted his fake accounts..that he admited he once had once he was caught. He said he was still watching her. But the wake up call hit home on New Years Eve..when the kids saw me packing his bags...and STARTED TO HELP!
He was SO upset! He was so very mad at me! I told the kids to stop..but they are young so they thought I was playing a game. I apologized for what the kids had done. But in the end...if that woke him up..then I am grateful for that happening. I have also once again changed our phone numbers. I am not sure what good that will do.

Let me guess...you have a problem with homosexuality..is that correct?? Also what I do in my SPARE TIME...has nothing to do with my children. My children live a very happy priviledged life!

That is delusional.

What you do is who you are.

What you do has everything to do with your fitness as a parent.

When it comes to my sexuality...IT Does not effect what I do as a parent and WHO I AM! It is merely a sexual preference.
Say for instance, you enjoy bondage or anal sex...hell...even oral sex in YOUR BED ROOM! Does that effect your ability to raise a family???

I have a problem with fornication and adultery period. Practicing homosexuality falls into those categories.

Exactly, BK! Thank you for your voice of reason.

Delusional.

When it comes to weakening/destroying your marriage, perverse acts such as swinging etc which will inevitably destroy your marriage will have a profound impact (negatively) on your children and speak directly to your fitness as a parent.

and if I likes anal/bondage etc as long as it's with my WIFE or HUSBAND (in your case) that would be cool!

You can already see the folly of introducing a third party into your marriage.

Yup! What bigkahuna said! Yup, he nailed it!

Actually...I seem to have noticed as well as u did. That the way I wrote this seems to say that I had already been fooling around with her. But that was not the case. We started off as JUST friends. We flirted a lil and I was definetly intersted. But nothing ever happened until the night of our first encounter with my H. SO I NEVER HAD AN AFFAIR.
I am no longer pursuing other women and certainly never have or will pursue another man. My H has FINALLY after 4 years told me that he never wants me to be with anyone else again. That was the first and last female for me! (he used to suggest finding ME a girl.. so I never knew he had a problem) Which I am completely satisified with. I have apologized immensely and excepted my mistake. I regret it...but it's too late! We both have hurt each other so much..and during a big break down we apologized.

We are seeing his psych again...he has not seen one in quiet awhile and has been on and off of his medication. We do know that his disorder has alot to do with him not being able to control his urges. But of course he wont use it as an excuse.

I would also like to add that I am aware that beauty and sex are not important. But the thing is... I do everything I need to do. I even ask him to please let me know what he needs.... Please let me know if there is anything I can change!! Please...and u know what his answer is...." nothing"!

My point to you guys..is this and only this.. oral, anal, threesomes, bondage, and hell even deficating on your partner is taboo. So for you to judge me is wrong. Take a look in the mirror before u open your mouth.

WRONG

3 are OK with your partner if that is what you like
1 is unhygenic to say the least
1 is taboo/a violation of your wedding vows and thus forbidden.

You seem to be having trouble working out which is which.

move on and worry about your own marriage.

Oh I'm sorry - I thought you were looking for some advice. If I had realised you had all the answers I wouldn't have bothered.

FW,

I'm not going to be harsh...

First... This has already been suggested but I'm going to re-suggest it... You have two threads going... this one and another in General Questions II... Stick with one thread. This one! And ask the moderators to move it to GQ II. Multiple threads cause confusion.

Second... Ask yourself this question... Do you want to save your marriage?

I assume the answer is yes otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Third... There are a lot of good people here who's marriages have been to He|| and back. They're speaking from expirance. And if they seem harsh don't take it personal. Infidelity is one of ... if not the most painful emotional experiances that someone can go through. Try and be open and honest with yourself about the advice you're recieving. They're giving you a dose of radical honesty. (One of the marriage building priciples of Dr. Harley)

Fourth... Someone already suggested this but I'm going say it again. No contact with the other woman... That's the one thing you and your husband can do in agreement right now... this very instant that will start you on the road to a healthy marriage.

This is getting long isn't it...LOL

Fifth... Get the books His Needs Her Needs, and Surviving an Affair, by Dr. Harley. You and your husband will do well to educate yourself with these two books. There are several other books that would be helpful but those two are an excellent start.

Last... If possible schedule a phone session with the Harleys. Or Maybe even go to a Marriage builders weekend.

Agreement in a marriage is good... usually. (Read the Policy of Joint agreement on this website)

The Policy of Joint Agreement.

You and your husband aggreed to bring a third party into the marriage. You both aggeed in essence to have an affiar... That's not good and now you see it as a terrible mistake. Your situation is somewhat rare or unique in that... you're both betrayed spouses, and you're both wayward spouses. That in itself is not totally rare. There are betrayed spouses that went out and had a revenge affair. The thing that makes your situation somewhat unique is that you both had an inappropriate relationship with the same person.

If you're genuine about having a healthy marriage ... one of the principles that you and your husband are going to have to embrace is that there are certain things that are exclusive to your spouse. Sex is one of them. Certain conversations should only take place between a husband an a wife.... is another. Many of those things are covered in articles on this website.

O.K.
I've rambled long enough...An open mind and a little humility will get you far on this forum.

Hope this helps.

Bipolar's have difficulties with boundaries and you should have known this.

Your husband is ill.

As the "healthy" person in the relationship...you are more culpable than him.

If he's not medicated...good luck trying to control his manic compulsions. I would recommend addressing his mental condition first as there is no such thing as an intimate relationship with a cycling bi-polar.

Are you certain this behavior was YOUR curiosity and YOUR decision as bi-polar's tend to be quite manipulative, passive aggressive and CONTROLLING. Many bi-polars commit adultery as they are unconfined by society norms. I'd EXPECT this of him and suspect it was somehow HIS idea. (not that you aren't responsible for going along with it...but whatever)

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- sounds like you two are well to do, which is typical of the functioning bi-polar. However, bi-polars are prone to blowing it all on a cycle and losing everything. As his wife...YOU should be in sole control of all finances to protect your family (especially him) from his delusions of grandeur. His illness WILL get worse with age. Most bi-polars die young and broke.

p.p.s. - The rub is most bi-polars refuse to allow anyone to control anything about them, hence, getting sole control of the finances or expecting complete fidelity is next to impossible.

Mr. W, she made it plain that she had always wanted to experiment with a woman, so I doubt H had to manipulate her. I hope she doesn't take your comments as further excuse to absolve herself of blame. So far the only thing she seems remorseful about, is that this turned into a sexual relationship that did not include her.

First of all, let me say that I think other posters are being incredibly unfair to you by being so judgemental.
Considering your husband is bipolar, it seems like he really needs some professional help. Is he willing to work on this problem?

Did you actually just say that? Offer your help to this woman! Or AVOID, since the subject elicits venom. If you just want to zero in for personal soapbox reasons, start your own thread. fabulous_woman made the following quotes on this very thread, in direct contradiction to your statement:

"and yes I admit and have many many many times...that yes the fact that they couldnt stop talking was my fault!!!!"

"I have said to him that I will NEVER DO ANY Sexual experimentation again!!! Yes, it kills me and I am paying for it...but I have also excepted it and moved on. We were both new to these things...It was all out of curiosity...and now we are paying!!"

"I already apologized...and taken responsibility...yes A MILLION TIMES. I also had a huge break down...where I sobbed my eyes out...and begged him to forgive me for poisioning our marriage."


fabulous_woman - My Ex and I fell down that slippery slope of swinging. Note the word "Ex." We unfortunately had even more downhill problems with which to contend than that. I want to offer my support for the recovery of your marriage. The subject of swinging often sets off forum fireworks around here, but there are many people who are able to discuss it in a helpful fashion. Ignore the ones who can't. Have you ever read The Desiderata by Max Erhmann? Concentrate on informed replies that focus on marital recovery utilizing MB concepts.

In my opinion, MrWondering offered some interesting, helpful insights.

While adultery in all its forms is ugly to me, I will try to explain why I find swinging particularly egregious.

In many situations, what starts out in total innocence becomes tainted. Long term friends, co-workers, or even pastor/parishioner relations may start out with good intentions, then go down a terribly slippery slope, due to lack of boundaries. These also are INEXCUSABLE, but in many cases one can almost see the steps leading to the fog, brought on by confused emotions.

With swinging, it is not about a slippery slope, it is not about confusion, it is not about a friendship dropping its boundaries. It is a deliberate planned out event to satisfy a deviant sexual desire. That's it.

It is very similar to going to a hooker, although in a sense, even much worse, because you are inviting a third party into your marital bed, into your very LIVES!

These situations are sheer filth willingly planned and sought out, all for scratching a sexual itch.

It really IS that simple, and I've seen it IRL often enough to know of whence I speak.

I liken it go going out and standing in heavy traffic, then complaining when hit by a car.

Sure, there's still a chance of recovery, if the OP is willing to repent to God and ask for and accept a new heart. Otherwise, any adivce would be like a bandaid for cancer.

We have an appointment with his psychiatrist in about a week. We are also going to see a marriage counselor for the very first time in a couple of days.

He had been cycling a lot.. but now he tells me that he feels like he has his self control back( for now). My husband is very hyper sexual as well and is trying to control his urges to look at nudity. I am relatively healthy mentally...but I do tend to get angry fast. I have started meditating and going on walks to calm myself down.

I am really actively trying Plan A. He seems very happy and says he wants to save our marriage. We tried Plan B but that only lasted for 5 hours. He begged me to come home with him and our oldest son. So of course, I gave in. For 3 nights we slept alone. But on the third day we made VERY passionate love and he apologized! Then on the fourth day I had a huge break down in which I let EVERY EMOTION and FEELING I HAVE EVER HAD OUT.. I apologized for allowing our marriage to be POISONED!

But as far as who's choice it was to have the threesome. It was mostly mine..he pushed the idea of me being with this female on to me. But I suggested we be with her together! But the night it happened we invited her in the room...she could have said NO! It's not like we had ever talked about it with her!! So she wanted to watch us together. Which was fine by me...but he jumped all over her!
My husband is very manipulative. He knows me..and knows what to do to make me forgive him. He even knows what to say! HE DOES NOT KNOW WHY HE DOES WHAT HE DOES! Especially since he tells me that he is happy and does not need anything extra from me. But I have a hard time believing that. I want to save my marriage and so does he. I just hope he is strong enough to control himself.

This was put nicely. It was just a filthy desire that was fulfilled and left a BIG MESS BEHIND! We will NEVER NEVER NEVER DO THAT AGAIN! As long as I live I will never do it again! I have begun to spread the word to curious wives and husbands. I told them my story and hopefully it scares them away from the idea of a third party in the bedroom.

Thank you so much for understanding and for being helpful. I feel your advice will be one I can really use. Seeing how you have been there!

He wont admit that he slept with her alone. But I know in my heart that he has. As much as it disgusts me.... I have already convinced myself that he was with her at least one time alone. They mostly "talked" but the messages I read were DISGUSTING! I read them out loud to him and he COULD NOT BARE TO HEAR THEM! Hopefully that woke him up a little bit!

Thank you, we are trying to get this under control. At times he is so difficult because, he does not like the way his medication makes him feel. He also hates speaking to a psych..but too damn bad! When your sick you MUST BE SEEN! Especially if it's an illness in your mind that controls your life!

FW...

I'm not going to speak to the swinging, as I think it has been addressed over and over, other than to say that I do not agree at all with that lifestyle...

I want to talk to you about your husband's Bipolar Disorder...

As someone who grew up with a father that had Bipolar Disorder, I can tell you quite a bit about it...(My dad passed away in June 2007 at the young age of 61 during a manic episode. Unmedicated.)

What your husband is telling you about being able to control himself is FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot stress that enough...Without medication, no way, now how...Mr. W was right, his cycles will worsen with age...Your boundaries about this will have to remain IRON CLAD...Knowing what I know, I personally could not live with an unmedicated Bipolar...And medication alone is NOT enough, he MUST have counseling at all times as well...Here is why: Part of the illness is [in almost all cases] believing that the illness can be controlled by self will, and therefore once stabilized on meds they will rationalize that they don't need the meds! There is no med that can convince you to take a med, so counseling in conjunction with meds is a MUST...For me, it is the ONLY way that I could remain in a relationship with someone with Bipolar Disorder...

You mentioned his hyper-sexuality...that is a symptom of his illness...Read everything that you can get your hands on about this very cunning disorder...Get yourself and your children in counseling and support groups...

A GREAT book is An Unquiet Mind by Kay Redfield Jamison. She is a professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, and also has Bipolar Disorder...It was a fabulous read, I learned TONS...

God Bless,

Mrs. W

Thank you...I know he has no control over himself anymore! He is just so damn difficult when it comes to the medication and counseling. But this time around..I am not playing games!!! Not only is he going to see his psych...but he is going to take me with him! We are also joinging marriage counseling. I want EVERYTHING about him out in the open! I know him..and I know he only tells them tid bits about himself. I also know he ALWAYS tells people what they want to hear.

This is so hard on me seeing that he cant even give me a logical explanation as to why he feels the need to cheat on me. Except that he feels ADDICTED TO HER! But what I am confused about is this, back in nOvember when this turned into a full blown affair. He would not speak badly about her...in fact we got into a couple of fights because, he would stick up for her!! But now he is calling her a b1tch, calling her "that thing", and even IT! I dont understand what changed.

It could be that I read the disgusting messages out loud to him. Or it could be that the kids saw me packing his bags and started helping!! I'm not sure..I just hope this is a wake up call..because, I wont be around if [censored] hits the fan again.

This swinging B.S. has been over since the first week of October. I cant believe this mess has started up again.

Oh yes, I know, I know...That is part of the illness and it is MADDENING...I truly understand...


I can't tell you how many times that I or my mom went with my dad...So many broken promises...It is a VICIOUS cycle...Ultimately whether or not he takes the meds and goes to counseling will be up to him though...The only thing that you can do is enforce your boundaries...If you choose to live with someone with a mental illness, as I told you earlier, your boundaries will have to be IRON CLAD...Seriously, get yourself to a counselor that HAS EXPERIENCE (preferably personal experience) with Bipolar Disorder...You WILL need it...


Okay, but until his illness is treated, I'm afraid MC won't do much good...And I know just what you mean about him telling them only tidbits...It is a VERY CUNNING disorder and even many professionals are fooled...


If he is cycling, his mind can change on a dime...about ALL things...Hyperfocus on certain things or people is common...and then, poof, it's on to something else...

Seriously FW, PLEASE educate yourself on this illness...IMO, that must be addressed before any marriage issues can be...

Mrs. W

This is a *L I N K * to a "notable post" written by Star*fish.

I think you would be well advised to read her words. Maybe book mark her post.

What you've got going on with your H is a non-intimate marriage.

People choose to depersonalize lovemaking and turn their bedroom time into a series of sexual acts for a reason. Almost universally, that reason is to avoid intimacy.

True intimacy is more than rubbing uglies until orgasm.
Engaging in sexual acts like a circus performer is - just that - a performance, an act, a way to have sex without showing your vulnerability.

You claim "We were curious" as the reason you made this unfortunate choice.
That is something you tell yourself to avoid the deeper truth about your marriage.

Having another girl in your bed was a way of keeping distance and avoiding intimacy.

I write this to you as an invitation to look deeper into yourself.
"I was curious" is a ruse and avoids a more meaningful exploration of who you are.

Grow from this. Look deeper into your intimacy avoidance.

intersting...I will have to read this link.

Thank you! you and Mr. W are very very helpful!

Heeeeeeeey! What am I, chopped liver? There is a MRS. W that has been posting to you too... (Mr. W is my husband)

In answer to the question on your other thread...No, it is not a good idea to withhold sex in marriage...

Mrs. W

I said YOU and Mr. W silly! Really...even if there are ill feelings afterward? I love being with him still...and he loves being with me. Despite what usually goes on in Affairs afterward. We always get really close! Sometimes he says he feels used by me..since I start asking questions and feeling weird after sex. I always reassure him that I am not using him, however I can't help the bad feelings rushing back after my head clears up after the deed. These times are very special to the two of us and I don't want to ruin them.

LOL, you quoted Pep, I assumed you were talking to her...No worries!

Yes, really, it is bad to withhold sex in marriage...The goal here is for the two of you to be romantically in love and you do that by filling each other's Emotional Needs...How could you do that without having SF?

Mrs. W

Why did you include in your thread title?

Is it because you KNOW your choices were not morally correct?

I think that the ONLY time someone writes

"don't judge me"

is when they KNOW their actions will be judged because they KNOW they have acted badly!

A person never says:

"I educate my child .... please don't judge me."
"I've been faithful to my vows ... please don't judge me."
"I got an A on my book report ... please don't judge me."
"I exercised and watched my diet and lost 35 pounds ... please don't judge me."

They might say:

"I don't make my child attend school ... please don't judge me."
"I've cheated on my spouse ... please don't judge me."
"I failed my book report ... please don't judge me."
"I ate 12 donuts and sat around on my butt all day and now I am fat ... please don't judge me."

It is a that your conscience bothers you when you say:

"Please don't judge me"

You know your actions deserve scrutiny - but you reject that very same scrutiny.

Unfortunately, your situation is not unique at all. Its fairly typical. We've seen it here numerous times. So it's sadly ordinary.

Wrong doing is never unique or special.

Jo

It would be UNIQUE to see this thread title:

ordinary adultery - please judge

Just curious - if you "always knew" you wanted to sexually experiment with a woman, why on earth did you get married?? A marriage is for TWO people...three's a crowd.

Your right...he nad I both know as well. That we can not go without sex !

[quote=broken_soul]Just curious - if you "always knew" you wanted to sexually experiment with a woman, why on earth did you get married?? A marriage is for TWO people...three's a crowd. [/quote


When I married my husband..at the time our love was more important then experimentation. I am trying to now bring it back to where it used to be!

And finding a swinging man on MB to chat with will help you reach this goal HOW exactly??

I can almost imagine their (Fabu & J47) email exchange:

Fabu: They don't understand us, our situations are so special and unique. Yanno, evolved. They're in the dark ages with promoting and only supporting traditional marriage.

J47: I so much agree. I'm sure my marriage's "Life-Style" had nothing to do with the adultery I experienced in my marriage.

Fabu: Yeah, mine either.

A few weeks (if that long) after Fabu and J47 have been emailing & IMing one another:

"I think you and I should talk on the phone. Emailing is so cumbersome and I really need to talk to someone who understands this, I'm so upset right now. Can I have your phone number?"

The predictable beginning of an emotional, soon to be physical, affair.

Yeah...confiding in ANYBODY of the opposite sex, in ways that you don't with your spouse IS AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR.

f_w:

I thought you were here to get help with your marriage. I thought you were saying you realized how bad swinging was for your marriage. I thought you might be making progress.

Think about this:

• AA does not allow alcoholics to have sponsors of the opposite sex. It is too easy for vulnerable people to become inappropriately involved with someone of the opposite sex.
• This message board has disabled the PM feature. If people struggling with alcohol need to avoid getting too close to members of the opposite sex, how much more so people struggling with infidelity?
• This is an anonymous board. You don't know WHO may come here, see someone with the screen name "fabulous_woman" writing about threesomes and being sexually curious and adventurous, and decide to contact you.
• This is an anonymous board. What could you possibly need to say to a member of the opposite sex that you couldn't say in front of us?

You are playing with fire and you must know it by now. Be honest with yourself at least.

Also, I'm once again reminded of that awesome song "The Snake" by Al Wilson, sung by Johnny Rivers:

"Hah, shut up, silly woman,"
Said that reptile, with a grin
"You knew darned well I was a snake,
Before you took me in."

Don't be shocked when you get snakebit.