I am 34 and have been married to my H for 12 years...we have two children (girls) ages 10 & 11. I had an affair that lasted for about 10 months. My husband found out about my affair about 7 months ago....and, I told him everything. I have severed all ties with the OM.

My H just can't seem to cope with it. I told him that I love him and I wan't to work things out. We have good days and bad days. His biggest problem with the whole thing is that he wants a specific reason as to why I had the affair. I don't know why...evidently, I was attracted to the OM, but people are attracted to each other every day, and they don't have affairs. I don't know if it was the fact that we were in a routine, and the everyday stresses just go to me....and seeing the OM was exciting....I just don't know.

I told my H that I feel more in love with him now than before the affair. I think it's b/c I know that I jeopardized everything and hurt the love of my life....I took his love for granted.....and, now I just want to do everything in my power to make him love me again, and hopefully forgive what I did.

How do I help my H get past all of the hurt. I just want to make all his pain go away. Please give me some advice

You can't make his pain go away. It's a permanent consequence of his love of you and your disregard of that love.

Hopefully some FWW's can help you.

I do realize that the hurt will always be there......but, one day he seems fine, tells me that he still loves me, and that it is what it is & that we just need to work things out.....glad that I stayed......but then the next day he's telling me that he thinks we should spend time away from one another, because he just doesn't feel the same way about me.

I keep telling myself that it's normal for him to do this, but I don't know. I've never been through this before, and I don't know what normal is. I'm just looking for some guidance.

Parkjee,

Thanks from coming here. And guess what? Unlike what has been told you, the pain will not stay forever! Believe me, I know!

The best thing you can do is give it time. Keep doing your part. Keep listening to him. Let him work thru this.

I had to do the same. It took months for me to get out of my funk.

I can tell you now, with two years behund us in recovery, I am happy and none of what happened hurts me anymore. As Steve Harley said to me, once the affair is over and you begin true recovery, the affair begins to get smaller in the rearview mirror as we speed away from it!

Park,

His emotions are like a boiling stew on a stove. Churning and bubbling with different feelings bobbing to the top and then falling back down, with other emotions coming to the top to take their place.

His life has just been turned UPSIDE DOWN. His reality and his living world has just been turned into a lie. What he was sure was safe and loving and secure has betrayed him and yanked his heart out through his sternum, leaving a gaping sucking chest wound.

""I keep telling myself that it's normal for him to do this""

Yes, unfortunately, it is normal.

kirk

It takes a long, long time. The damage is deep. There is often a return of the anger phase for the BS at about 6-months. You are around that time frame.

Can you send him here? We have a handful of couples on the forum that post or have posted separate threads through their recovery.

Strongly consider a call to the Harleys. Recovery is a long tough gig and they can set you up with a plan.

Hopefully a couple of the FWWs on the board will check your thread soon.

thank you.....that's what I needed to hear....it makes me feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel....I keep telling my H that it's going to take time.....I don't know how long, but I'm willing to wait as long as it takes....on a bad day, he'll say it's been 6 months and I still feel the same.....and I tell him that there's no timeline as to when it's going to get better.....

For everyone blowing sunshine and stating that after 2 years there is no pain I will point out ten that say there still is.

I don't want to discourage you, but DO NOT make the mistake of tossing your husband into someone else's timeline (mine included).

Ask a few of the BH's around here about where thay are. I'm nearly 3 years BTW and still feel the pain on occasion.

I'm new to all the abbreviations....what are FWWs?

Welcome to MB,

Sorry your here, yet glad you came!

Have you been reading here on this sight for a while?

Have you and your H read any of the Harley's books yet?

Are you doing any counseling at this time?

Try this link for all the abbreviations

LINK

thank you! just found the site today...no, we haven't read any of the books....we did see a marriage counselor for 7 sessions through my husband's EAP...but haven't really looked for one of our own....I'm just starting to get desperate and needed to find someone to talk to.....

tks!

Read as much as you can on this sight and ask your H if he will come here also to seek some help.

I would HIGHLY recommend you order this book;
LINK to His Needs Her Needs @ the bookstore

How did you meet the OM, work, neighbor, friend?

How did your BH find out?

Was a NC letter sent?

How did the affair end?

Have you answered all of your BH's questions about the affair?

Did the OMW find out about the affair?

Have you been tranparent? Provide BH with paswords to verify NC?

How close to the OM do you live?

Does daily life bring you, BH and OM into site of each other?

Parkjee, would you two consider going to the Marriage Builders Weekend? I would HIGHLY encourage it!

Look on the website for more information. It is a very detailed few days into what MB teaches, the principles. You and your husband will not only learn what causes affairs and how to recover from them...but also all of the things that we all need to do to have great marriages.

Again, I highly recommend it. When we had out first two false recoveries, I was the only one that had read and been involved on here. My wife had read His Needs, Her Needs. But that was it. Well, when our third (and last) recovery came, we were in San Francisco within three weeks, sitting thru the course. And while I learned more than I had previously known, it was my iwfe that took a lot away from there because she was emmersed into it, rather than taking weeks and weeks of counseling.

Your husband may be in a spot of not knowing what happens next. With the Harleys and the MB programs here, he would understand all of this...from the affair, to his current feelings, to where things will go if you two are able to move forward together.

With a plan and knowledge that your situation is NOT unique, you may see a different husband.

parkjee,

There IS light at the end of the tunnel, but it's a narrow path you'll need to follow to get to it. The program that Dr. Harley has developed over many years is offered to us here on the MB web site. There are other resources too, and applying as many of them as you can will give you the best shot at reconciliation.

I'd like to address the pain. I've never heard of a BS (betrayed spouse) "getting over it" quickly enough for the WS (wayward spouse). For the WS, it is something they are ashamed of, so they want to get past it quickly. Works in reverse for the BS. They want to know WTF? WHY did he/she do this to me? The pain is deep, and healing is slow.

You will hear us refer often to the "roller coaster" of recovery. Your BH is up one day. A mess the next. He is caught in a tidal wave of emotions. You probably are too. There is no other way but through it, and it will take a loooong time. Not for the faint of heart or those who want a quick fix.

You will have to acknowledge his pain. You will never know exactly how it feels, but it is important that you try. It is impossible to apologize too much, and not just "I'm sorry."

Your apology must include what Dr. Harley calls "just compensation." THAT means you must willingly do way more than YOU THINK is necessary to prove your love and your trustworthiness to your BH. See, he THOUGHT you WERE trustworthy. You proved you weren't, and created a great, gaping hole where trust used to be. That wound is in his heart and will not be quick to heal. You'll both need a lot of gumption to get past this.

Your job now is to be an open book. He must know EVERYTHING you do, where you are at ALL TIMES, have access to your email and your cell phone. Short leash? Yep. For quite a while. Over time, and with your continued honorable behavior, he will COME to trust you enough to let you into his heart again.

But it will never be exactly the same. BSs can never write their WSs a blank check on the trust account again. You now understand why he shouldn't have in the first place. We are ALL vulnerable to an affair, given the right circumstances and selfish "justifications."

YOU will HAVE to search yourself to learn WHY you opted to cure whatever ailed you with an affair. If you don't, how COULD your husband ever trust you? Why should he? How can YOU be sure you wouldn't do this again? Because of the pain you feel right now? Nope. You will have to put extraordinary precautions into place to protect your marriage. All that is explained in the MB material.

You will have to explore your marriage to determine what left it vulnerable to an affair in the first place. The MB course work is a step-by-step guide to doing that too.

The program is laid out in Dr. Harley's books (His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters, Surviving An Affair). Better yet, counsel with his office by phone, or attend one of the weekend workshops if you can afford it.

You can rebuild a marriage that you will BOTH agree is better than you ever had before. But it's gonna take work and time.

Oh, yeah. And patience and faith.

Good luck.


Right Here Waiting

parkjee,

Pay particular attention to the post from TheRoad on page one. Every question there is very important. Please answer them all, and we will be able to offer you specific support as your circumstances dictate.

And hold on to HOPE.

RHW

we met him thru girls softball, he was a coach on a different team

one of his good friends saw us together, while my H was at work, the friend met him after work and told him, my H came home from work and it hit the fan

don't know what a nc letter is


I called his house told him it was over, and told his wife about everything

my H still says that I haven't given him a reason as to why I cheated....I don't think I know, myself

NC ??


He lives a couple of miles away, but our kids go to the same school

yes, there is a possibility...our biggest fear is seeing him/his family at softball.....but, I don't think their daughter is going to play anymore/and I don't think he'll sign up to be a coach

I suggest the same with one difference. Order the CD audio version, plan a road trip with your husband and listen to the book TOGETHER. Men converse well about touchy personal subjects in a car where there is the distraction of driving, no eye contact and extra-verbal communication cues are mimimized.

Besides...it's something you can do TOGETHER as it is a joint problem. You can pause and discuss at appropriate moments.

In the beginning it covers much of the information in Surviving an Affair so you don't necessarily need both books.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - the 6-8 month anger mark is typical as the initial shock of Dday wears off. Help him through this period.

Here is the answer to your husband's question:

How Do Affairs Begin?

Here is how you avoid an affair in the future:

How to Avoid an Affair (Part 1)

How to Avoid an Affair (Part 2)

NC = no contact

Your family needs to find a new recreational outlet other than softball, preferably one your H can attend and do dropoff/pickup a the practices.

I also think you should tell your H you're willing to relocate to any location you both agree on. Maybe let him pick three options and you choose the one you like best. The chances of you running into OM at school events, the gas station, the grocery store... are just too great and simply not worth it.


You probably cheated for two reasons:
OM made you feel special in a way your H didn't
You have poor boundaries in place and allowed yourself to cross them many, many times

Learning to make each other feel special:

Get the book "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" and read it with your husband. Answer all the questions with one another and fill out the questionnaires. Learn to meet each other's ENs (emotional needs) and avoid LBs (love busters). This will help you feel close to each other, and enjoy one another's company, and fall in love again.

You also need to spend 10-15 hours of uninterrupted time with one another every week. This is separate from family time, when the kids are around.

Establishing and enforcing boundaries:

Figure out what boundaries you crossed, and what boundaries you failed to have in place. A common rule of thumb around here is never be alone with a member of the opposite sex. That's one that you obviously crossed. Also, never talk about your marriage to a member of the opposite sex. Never write or say anything to someone that you wouldn't say in front of your husband. Think about these types of things, and let your husband know which boundaries you failed to have in place, or why you allowed yourself to cross them. Figure out ways to help your husband feel safe that you won't exhibit the same poor judgment and lack of self control again.

Some things you can do to help him feel safe would be:
- Put a tracking GPS on the car and have the reports sent to your husband.
- Offer to swap cellphones with him whenever he asks.
- Put a key logger on the home computer and have the reports sent to your husband.
- Offer to take a polygraph so that he knows you've answered all of his questions truthfully.

Welcome to Marriage Builders

parkjee,

turtlehead just gave you another big chunk of the MB process. Among us, we've given you most of it on this thread.

As you can see, you've got your work cut out for you.

HAVE AT IT!

RHW

The reason is very simple and is the same no matter who the WS is.

You did not have boundaries in place to protect your marriage from intruders. Or you moved your boundaries because the attention you were getting from OM felt good and you didn't want it to stop.

It really is THAT simple.

Boundaries are what keep us where we belong. Once they are removed, we tread in dangerous waters, often drown, and drown those who love us.

There isn't some deep, dark childhood issue or personality disorder that caused you to have an affair.

Affairs happen because one spouse becomes selfish and self-centered enough to want what feels good at the moment MORE THAN they want to protect their spouse from pain.


Dr. H's program will explain the details of this very clearly, and you and your husband will begin to see how it happened and what you must do differently.

Please encourage your husband to come here.

I've never seen a better, more succinct explantation. You put that perfectly, SMB!

That was so well phrased, I just wanted to see it again.

The kicker is that now your BH is going to feel like he can never trust you to protect him from pain. He'll be afraid you'll pick selfish gratification the next time, like you did this past time.

That's why you need to work with him to make sure you actively make the marriage strong and keep it strong. You need rules and guidelines in place to govern your behavior, and methods to ensure you respect those guidelines (boundaries). You need to go above and beyond to ensure your husband feels safe.

OK - SMB notable post

The best advice I can give, P1, is to listen to the vets here. They have been my lifeline.

My H doesn't want anyone's input on what I did nor on our marriage -- no MB, no books, no pastor, no MC, nothing. I explained why I betrayed him as best I could, but frankly, me cheating is so out of my own realm of morality I could barely explain it to myself let alone my husband. I was stumbling for weeks trying to give him a sufficient answer when I remembered this book I had recently read called Getting Past the Affair: A Program to Help You Cope, Heal, and Move On -- Together or Apart by Douglas K. Snyder, Donald H. Baucom, and Kristina Coop Gordon. There is a chapter in it called "How Could My Partner Have Done This?". I went to H and said, "I know you said you want to process all of this on your own and I respect that. This book is about affairs. There is a chapter that can speak to your question about why better then I think I ever could. I've marked the chapter in here, about 15 pages that speak to why people have affairs. It helped me understand better why I did this, and maybe it can shed some light for you too. You're of course welcome to read more and even keep the book if you choose." The next day my H said he did read it and thanked me. He said he still has questions, but it did help. He gave me the book back and read only those few pages, but since then, he has referred to it a couple of times so I know he took it in. And his "why" questions subsided dramatically. They still creep in, but not like they used to.

Good luck to you, P1. I will follow your thread here with hope.

Nicely put SMB! I think you've got it

Talking straight, just like a Texan!

In our case, OM was a next door neighbour and football coach. Our kids idolised him.


WOW - not only one of his good friends but a friend of your marriage to boot! I wish I had friends like that!


No Contact letter.


OK I'm sorry to say this but if you want to recover.... here goes....

1. Your kids need to change schools
2. Your kids need to either change sport (preferable) or change clubs to eliminate this happening.
3. You should never go there to see your child play if there is the remotest possibility of OM being there.

Harsh? Think I don't know what I am talking about?

Well..... we moved away from our house to ensure NC with OM. Our son played out the year of football but my wife never went to the games - not even to his grand final. The next year, my son changed football club because OM, entitled POS that he is, decided to coach my son's team even though his son was supposedly not playing that year. The year after that, our son changed to a different sport.

ANY contact with OM, not only for YOU but also your husband will cause huge issues in your recovery.

We were lucky - we were able to move back to our house a year later because OM sold his house and moved away. It still cost us $10000 in rent but it was worth it to get away from OM.

Are you getting the picture?

What bigk said is soooo true. This is what you MUST do. NO OTHER WAY! This is the pain caused by an A. It messes up everyone's lives including the children even if you do recover.

If you're serious about recovery this is the price you must pay.

Yes, I realize what a good friend he is......and remind my H all the time, especially when he says that he has no one to talk to about all of this, expect for me, the one who caused all of his pain.
Moving is not an option for us....and, as far as the Softball.....sign-ups are a couple of weeks away, and I plan on signing my girls up. I'm 99.9% sure that OM will not be signing up to be a coach, and I highly doubt that his daughter will be playing, either. I'm planning on waiting until the very last minute to sign up my girls...we have an inside connection, we are good friends with the VP of softball, and they will let me know whether or not they signed up.
As far as a NC letter, I don't feel that it's necessary....I told him that day that it was over, and since that day, he has not tried to make contact with me at all....which I am very grateful for. We never really saw OM or his family before the A, so I don't think there's a big chance of that. We did see OM and his wife at the school open house, my H did get angry and made a comment, but it didn't go any further....and this was less than 2 months after d-day. Our kids don't associate with the same people, or each other, really......bcause they went to different elem. schools.parkjee1

This really isn't about you but your BH. It's his choice on the NC letter.

Your judgement on issues with OM can't be trusted.

parkjee --

Sounds normal.

The best thing you could do for your husband is try to answer his questions. If he is still stuggling with "why" you had the affair, then lets figure that out.

There is an emotional needs questionaire on this website.
Fill it out 2 ways -- one for NOW, and one for the beginning of your affair. I will bet that you will see that at the start of your affair (or even before your affair) that there were certain emotional needs that weren't being attended to by you or your husband. That made you vulnerable.

By doing that same exercise NOW you can show your husband that you are both working on affair-proofing your marriage by making it NOT vulnerable to any affairs!

I can't read you whole thread, but as a betrayed husband, I can relate to the rollercoaster, and my WW feels much the way you do.

I know in my case, the bad days seem to be precipitated/triggered by me feeling ignored, affection-wise, attention-wise, sex-wise, whatever.

It is a result of not feeling the love, and also a tactic to try and get the attention. when I am "dark" which is the phrase I use, WW smothers me with the EN attention I need. She also says the same thing "But I thought everything was going so well!?"

To me, it is very hard to have things go back to "routine". My WW had better be kissing my bntt for a long time to come.

If you haven't done so, ID his ENs and make sure you are all over them. Try and offer new things, not just sex but in all his top ENs.

I don't know all of the details of your situation, but it sounds very similar to ours. On the bad days, I ask him what triggered his emotions, and he says, nothing.....but, I seem to think it's when he goes back to work, and has a lot of free time for his mind to wander.
Trust me, I am working hard on his EN...I will let the dishes or laundry sit....for days at a time....just so I can sit and watch tv with him.....because he has at times said that I worry too much about those things.....so I am showing him that he comes first.
I'll say the same thing to my H....I thought we were doing so good...and my H will say that he's just tolerating the situation better on those days.....
I think my H's biggest fear is that I'm going to have another A....and I'm just trying to convince him that I'm not.....trust me, I don't want to go thru this again, and I definitely don't want to hurt my H, the kids (even thought they don't know) and his family any more

I would totally agree that your husband's biggest fear is that you will have another A. As to the second part, I would wager that YOU never thought you would do it the first time let alone your husband thinking you would do this. It takes TIME for the trust to SLOWLY come back. You have to EARN the trust back, and it will take a long time.

"Moving is not an option for us....and, as far as the Softball.....sign-ups are a couple of weeks away, and I plan on signing my girls up. I'm 99.9% sure that OM will not be signing up to be a coach, and I highly doubt that his daughter will be playing, either. I'm planning on waiting until the very last minute to sign up my girls...
As far as a NC letter, I don't feel that it's necessary....I told him that day that it was over, and since that day, he has not tried to make contact with me at all....which I am very grateful for. We never really saw OM or his family before the A, so I don't think there's a big chance of that. We did see OM and his wife at the school open house, my H did get angry and made a comment, but it didn't go any further....and this was less than 2 months after d-day. Our kids don't associate with the same people, or each other, really......bcause they went to different elem. schools."

These seem like things YOU are doing. What about your H? What does he want? Would he want to move? What does HE think about girls in softball? Just having them play, even without the presence of OM, may be a huge trigger for him. How does HE feel about girls going to same school? Are you asking him any of this? You may want to read some of the threads that deal with triggers. They can be everywhere, come out of the blue and they are definitely NO fun for a BS to endure.

AM

yes, we have talked about these things...I know that he doesn't want to move.....if that was the case, we would've been out of our house, already.....I told him that I will do whatever it takes to work things out....I'm hoping for the OM and his family to move...after the fact, I found out that they (OM's family) had previously moved to their current house b/cause of another A that he had before me.
I know deep down that my H doesn't want us to give up s-ball, b/cause the girls love it....we just need to be sure that the OM won't be there.

Jeez, that isn't my biggest fear, I KNOW my WW would never even contemplate an A. She might leave me, but she wouldn't two-time, she was too humiliated by the exposure.

My biggest fear is that this whole thing emasculated me to the point that 1-2-3 years from now I am going to be feeling the same pain with a lousy wife.

My H thinks that I'm just sticking around for the kids.....and that once they're older, or even out of the house, that I'm going to pack up everything and leave him......he's dead wrong....I'm not just staying for the kids...I want to grow old and enjoy every minute of my life with my H and kids....I took that for granted

Did he say those words? Did you ask him?
Be careful about knowing what your H wants. That's a DJ and love busters are pure poison to a marriage.

Even if you're 100% correct, it will mean a lot to him if you ask him instead of assuming.

Scr3w softball.

You tell your BH that it his his call, whatever he wants, whatever he needs to feel comfortable, you will back him 110 percent.

Even a peep from you in favor is going to make him think you secretly want to run into the OM. Abd prefacing it on the presence of the OM just makes him loom as a continuing threat. maybe you don't see him at softball but you see him at the store.

Softball isn't worth your marriage. Especially to your daughters.

Whatever he wants.

Parkjee1,

Had my WW fallen on the sword like you have, I probably would not have divorced her. I think you just need to apologize repeatedly and tell him how little the A meant, how much you risked, how STUPID it was, and maybe he can get passed it. Its an awfully long time to not have come to your senses. That’s the problem I had w/ my ww A.

My W just shakes her head and said it was crazy, she was insane, selfish, she is so embarrased, worst mistake of her life, hurt so many people, humiliated herslef in front of her children, she is going to hell, black mark on her soul, hurt her family, hurt me, etc

It is hard to keep asking questions when she just prostrates herself like that.

What a great woman and an idealistic version of a WW(If there is one). Take FULL AND UTTER RESPONSIBILTY, acknowledge what they have done over and over again. Fall on the F SWORD like they should. I hope you are very proud of her, that takes character.

DUDE

Thanks. (thanks????)

Of course, the remorse didn't come out until after withdrawal, maybe 8 weeks after D-day. And eliciting it bums her out so much that it isn't something to seek out. But it is to the point where I know every answer, I ask something i know what she will say, so it shuts down a lot of that...

Yes, we have talked about it. We're not going anywhere....we both grew up in this town, and both his parents and my parents live within 5 minutes of us.....my H said they're (OM & family) the outsiders who don't belong.....and, if they moved once b/cause of an A, then, hopefully they'll do it again.
I never assume anything with my H, I always ask what he wants.

That's exactly what I do, and, the A didn't mean anything to me. My H says that it's not the fact that I had an A, but, who it was with....we used to talk about what a loser the OM was, and how he was never with his wife and didn't seem to really care about his kids....my H says, "that's the kind of man you wanted to be with!"...and, I never looked at it like that, b/cause I never thought of life w/him, I didn't think we had a future....
While the A was going on it's like I had 2 lives....the time I spent with the OM....which really wasn't that much...maybe an hour or so every few weeks....and then the rest with my H and kids.....I never thought of the consequences or how stupid it was, and I definitely never thought we would get caught.....but, secretly, I think I wanted to get caught.....b/cause then there was no other choice, but, for it to end (I've never told my H that).

That is an interesting observation. You might consider telling your H that bit of information(?)

Other more experienced here might have better insight than me.

Exactly,

Write the NC letter, give it to your husband with an addressed envelope. If he wants to mail it, then let him decide.

This is interesting to me because I've gotten about 4 different answers from WW.

Right after d-day it was "in a perfect world we'd be together". (Now totally denies ever saying it -- she did)

Then she said "we knew it would be a big blow-up like this"

Then it was "it was just supposed to be a friendship, it got out of hand."

Now it is "I'm ashamed and it was selfish and crazy".

I am the BW and my FWH had a 6-mo EA/PA from 1999-2000 (unfortunately another EA end of 2008). From 2000-2008, although the pain subsided, it was still there. Inbetween those years, the pain subsided and wasn't as intense, but I do believe, that it never goes away (this is from my own experience, though). Since I'm going thru this a 2nd time, the pain has been replaced by anger (but that's my story anyway).

Continue to account for your time, and fill the EN's of your BH. This will help to assure him of your committment to your M and your remorse from your A. If you aren't in MC, then try to go. This will help in your R.

As a BS, it isn't easy for us to understand and accept that we were dealt with these unfortunate circumstances. Be patient with your H. It isn't going to be easy, and will be a rocky road for both of you.

I'm not sure what's going thru her mind, but.....I know for me, my answer has always been the same....my H has given me plenty of opportunities to leave, he's even told me things like, "the kids will be ok", or "we may get along better if you leave"....I guess thinking that I want to be with the OM.....but, I never once gave it a second thought, I want to be with my H.
Trust me, I'm no expert, but it sounds like your WW doesn't know what she wants....

As one who did the betraying, let me say: THIS is how you need to be thinking. For the duration of the affair, and for the first few days after D-day, I was convinced I "didn't know" why I did it, why it happened, there must be these bigger issues... WRONG.

As SMB posted earlier, it is simple, and you DO know why it happened. What finally made me get it was my husband insisting (with such hurt and frustration) that I stop lying to myself. So now I'm telling you to do the same thing. Sit down and really think about it - don't spare yourself, don't delude yourself so you don't have to admit how bad it was/is, and start thinking insightfully.

Most importantly: SPEAK WITH YOUR BH ABOUT IT!! Even if it's an insight or thought that's not fully developed or understood yet, discuss it with him. Don't just toss your hands up and say "I don't know why I did it but I know I want my marriage" - instead, show your husband you're trying to work on what's important to him (like this question of why you had an A), take responsibility and partner to fix things, don't just sit back and dump things in his lap and expect him to figure it all out now that you know you want the M.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh or misplaced for your situation - I tell myself a lot of this daily, so I think that's where it's coming from. Good luck.

Tks for the advice. We did go to MC for 6 sessions (thru EAP at work), and I'm definitely going to look into finding one, so that we can start going again. On the bad days, I try to reassure him that I'm there for him and understand his anger.

Me having another affair is something that my H has brought up, also....he says once a cheater, always a cheater....I told him that I wouldn't want to go thru this again, I wouldn't want to put him thru that heartache, again.

Hello,

I think you are trying very hard but it is so devastating to your husband. Imagine if the roles had been reversed. Can you imagine how you would be feeling? If you had unprotected sex then it is essential that you and your husband have been checked for STD's. If you were having sex with the OM and also with your husband then your husband is at risk obviously. You mentioned that this OM had previous affairs so you must be checked for STD's. This is a consequence to affairs. I wish you luck.

This is an interesting thing to say. It's the consequences that keep you from having another affair. Does that mean if the consequences were different, you'd have another affair? Imagine you could have another affair and your husband would never know. There would be no fallout. Would you do it?

You need to not have an affair because you know it's the wrong thing to do--not because the consequences are negative. The reason you don't shoplift or rob people is because you inherently know it's wrong. It's not because you don't want to go to jail. It needs to be the same with an affair.

I never said that it was the consequences that would keep me from having another A....I just stated that I never thought of the consequences....and no, I wouldn't have another A....no matter what.

As Harley says, affairs are supposed to be kepy secret. No one would have an affair if they considered the consequences.

So, my WW saying "I would never do this again, I hurt you, I hurt so many people, etc," isn't 100 percent compelling. If she thought she could do it in secret again, those ramifications wouldn't matter.

And, in terms of "once a cheater, always a cheater" it makes some sense. Clearly she weighed all this and did it once. And clearly something i her marriage left her vulnerable and looking outside.

I much rather hear my WW says "I sinned terribly, I'm going to h3ll, I'm wracked by guilt, I can't sleep, it's a black mark on my soul.." PERSONAL reasons that would not need exposure in a second affair to have ramifications.

Make sense?

Words are cheap. You've had an affair once, your word doesn't mean anything. Shoot, I'm a betrayed husband, and I know that I couldn't avoid an affair if I allowed myself to be in the wrong position.

What are you doing differently that will keep you out of those situations again. Trust me, there are smooth talkers that could find a way into your pants again. The key is not being in a position where they can go to work on you.

I would cheat on my wife if I was alone in a room with a beautiful woman and she got naked. I couldn't turn it down. But, if I'm in public with my wife around, that isn't going to happen.

What are you doing to protect your marriage from predators in the future? Your BH doesn't want to hear that you won't cheat again. He wants to see your changed behavior and be comfortable that you couldn't cheat in your new lifestyle even if you wanted to.

I like that analogy Jim. Going to use that with my wife at the appropriate moment...

She's still in withdrawl right now, but progressing slowly.

I don't feel that is true.....I now, know in my heart, that what I did was wrong, and would never allow myself to betray my husband, again....
Here's the difference between you and I......I wouldn't cheat on my H if I was alone in a room with a handsome man.....I COULD turn it down. I don't want my H to know that I'm not going to cheat on him, simply b/cause he is there....I want him to know that I'm not going to cheat on him b/cause I'm a changed person.....and, it's not going to happen whether he is there, or not. I'm learning from my mistakes to make my marriage stronger than ever.

I agree with you, park. I worked in a male dominated industry for nearly two decades and had many opportunities to cheat on my H and didn't -- not because H was there but because I loved my H and I didn't want to be with anyone else. H never ever would have known in most of the situations I was presented. I even had blatent advances where I so wanted to -- heart racing, blood surging, rapid breathing inside... But still walked away because it was against what I believed in and what I wanted with my H.

I am a FWW. So my willpower didn't last. I'm certainly no posterchild for boundaries. But it started as an EA that developed digitally -- via phone, text, IMs, and emails. FOM lives 2,000 miles away. It doesn't take a naked person standing before you to tempt you. It's a matter of not protecting your own weaknesses. You need to avoid the circumstances. You need to control the environments you're in so your weaknesses need not be tested. But if you cannot avoid it and your weaknesses are tried, you need to be fortified inside to know WHY you will not give in. That fortification comes from what we're learning here at MB to affair-proof your relationship.

Whether my H and I make it, I know I will NEVER get involved in an outside relationship ever again. The pain I brought upon myself from my horrible mistake has been overwhelming -- a living hell. I can't have my only gatekeeper for affair-prevention be my H. Yes, he needs to participate in affair-proofing our marriage, but I can't burden him with full responsibility. I tried that before and it failed miserably.

I think the above is right. MB is supposed to affair-proof your marriage, so when you are in love, you would never want to devastate that person. Plus, since you are in love, your ENs are being met in the marriage.

THAT SAID....men have two heads. The little one has an enormous will of it is own. It is the RARE man who could always turn down a risk-free strictly sexual encounter with the woman of his dreams. All you wives make think so ;-) but the male sex drive is like a madness.

I do believe men and women are different here, and most women need more of a courtship or an emotional connection or soemthing. Like, biologically, men are looking to drop a seed, and women are looking for a stable parental partner.

Or something.

As to park....I think as time goes on, NC is more important for the betrayed partner. My WW seems to be out of withdrawal/fog and wants life to return to "normal".

I don't trust her a bit, and I certainly am not going back to the "normal' that had her having sex with OM in my house. So, normal ain't making it.

I remember right after D-day and the NC concept she looked at me teary-eyed and said "You mean, if I run into OM at the store I have to just ignore him?".......<sob> for the rest of our lives??"

I bet you thought that before the first time around?

The most dangerous FWW is the one who says 'never again'.

I don't think this is true regarding the male sex drive being greater. Women in their late 30's have way more drive, many times, than their male contemporaries due to diminishe testosterone in the men and increasing levels in older women.Biologically , women are just as driven to get diversity of offspring as men. I think men need to wake up and acknowledge that many women that cheat do so for strictly sexual reasons. Look at the recnt cougar phenomenon.

This kind of attitude is why your BH is scared about you cheating again. Why can't you admit that you could cheat given the right circumstance, and do everything in your power to avoid those circumstances again? It's not being alone in the room with a handsome man that will get you, it's talking with a man "innocently" who knows how to talk to you, butter you up, and deposit huge love units until you are so in love with him, you are willing to give him what he wants and risk your marriage again.

You are naive, and haven't fully learned from your mistakes. You have no clue how your affair happened and how to prevent it in the future.

Well, good point, but I was thinking the analogy given above about a beautiful woman naked in a room for a one time riskless sex act.

I think a man is more likely to jump that. I think most women look outside for something other than a one time sex act.

Parkjee1,

How does your husband process the fact that the A went on for 10 months? Thats not exactly a short term affair and it sound like it would have gone on for much longer had it not been busted.

Sad too that it was a childrens sports coach, I feel thats in a category with preachers, teachers and Bill Clinton.

God Bless
NJ

Mike you talk more like a wayward in a fog than most waywards on these boards.........sorry!

iam, I would disagree.

The most dangerous FWW is one that does not put any EP's into place to back up the statement of "never again".

reminds me of the scripture passages James 2:14-18, where he mentions faith without works is dead.

Jim's exactly right. While a post can't tell a whole story, it does seem that you are not yet thinking critically and proactively. Don't get caught up in the emotions of all this - you need to find out what happened and be proactive about addressing that.

Dear Parjee1

Please note that these guys are not saying that you are permanently flawed and that you are secretly harboring dreams of having another A! They are NOT!

They are saying that the first defense line against another A is taking precautions to prevent situations in which your defenses are tested. This is the single most successful strategy to avoid falling into any A.

NOW you are disgusted with the thought of having another A. And you believe this feeling will forever protect your M. It will not.

What people who rely on feelings to protect their M fail to realize is that when an OP come so close emotionally that a defense of the M is required, the feelings already have become "treacherous soldiers". They flee the battlefield and change alliance to fight for the enemy.

A successful M relies on defenses that can survive even "treacherous soldiers". These defenses are
1) Line one: Precautions in place (boundaries: never &#8220;improper&#8221; behavior)
2) Line two: A strong commitment to the M and to what is right.

These two defensive lines must be built and prepared to defend The M against your own feelings as well as attacks from the outside.

Since you already have fallen once, you have proven that your defenses were not up to the task. That means that you must from now on and through out the rest of your M (perseverance!!) take extraordinary precautions to protect your M. In addition to learning from your proven weakness, this is also necessary to give your H a sense of safety.

You are not flawed! But people may feel that you underestimate what it takes to protect your M and your H.

God bless your recovery!

To all!

With that being said: I believe she should have got it now; that extraordinary precautions are required. I would suggest we now return to what she can do to help her H, herself and the M to heal.

I would just like to hear a list extraordinary precautions she is taking instead of "I'll never do it again."

My WW really laid that on thick last night...NEVER,NEVER,NEVER, etc. Said it caused HER too much pain, not her usual "I hurt other people"....which was more comforting to me, I think.

nice to know that Mike. You know how much i am dying to hear that from my wife ? She is doing the usual "I know i have hurt you". And that is pretty much it.

Exactly ! How is i wish my wife read this and followed it to the tee. OP, please read the above post again. As a BH, that is what i am looking for. Dont just blame the OM and what a loser he was. Get the facts out. Look at everything objectively and in slow motion - then share that with your husband. Let your BH decide what he wants to hear.

You already know you have hurt your husband beyond recognition. You know it and he knows it. Time to take the next steps. If you really think you have learnt a lot from the A (and from your posts it looks like you did and you will NEVER ever have an affair again) then let your husband know that. And let him know why you think that way.

Well....I sort of pulled it out of her by bringing up something that was discussed here "Once a cheater, always a cheater." I weasn't owning that sentiment, I was just discussing the concept.

I said that the thesis is that once someone shows they will cross that line, their regrets are the ramifications from getting caught, not personal moral or ethical pain. And maybe next time they will just be more clever to avoid what got them caught.

So I was sort of instigating :-)

Then she went on at length expressing her personal pain.

It was a good discussion....maybe just for me, obviously this stuff is shameful and embarrassing for her, but she knows we have to talk it out.

I actually think my husband has more self restraint than I have.
When we met I was head over heels for him and engineered all sorts of situations to try to get him to have sex with me. We spent all night in the same bed and he wouldn't touch me. He said I was the sexiest woman I'd ever met, he was falling in love with me and he wanted it to be right the first time we made love so he refused until I got him drunk and took advantage of him. Then we spent the next 2 months in bed so I know it wasn't that he didn't find me attractive or anything.

I am still the one with the higher sex drive though and had more partners before we met than he did because I tended to fall into bed a bit too easily without thinking it through unlike him.

I have no willpower or self control and I know I could still easily lose my head if given enough time and flattery from a man, even though I never find anyone as attractive as my husband. I won't put myself in a position where that could happen for just that reason.

Really?

I was going out later....you like chinese food?

Although it is funny, this is not the best place to be making those kind of jokes. The MB police will come get you.

(sigh)

I forgot to add I'd have to not be having enough time with my husband too.. :p

He's on his way home right now from Paris. I can't wait.

parkjee1, Frank57 summed it up very well.

Do you know what EP's (Extra-Ordinary Precautions)need to look like?
When I first came to MB'ers I had NO idea what EP's were, nor did I know how to create a list.

So I'm hoping that my list might help you as an example.......






I do these things on a daily basis today.
If I had been considerate of my wife to begin with, I would have ALWAYS been doing these things and there would have been no chance of having an A. Make sense?

When we counseled with Dr. Harley Chalmers, she helped me understand how important this step in recovery was. It is MY responsibility to protect my wife at all times.

Protecting one another from our own inconsiderate actions and behaviors is the beginning formula for a successful recovery. Hence, EP's!

TST, I must say this is still the best list of EPs I've ever read.
I'm going to ask a rather personal question. Does it ALWAYS come natural for you to follow these, now that you are in a good healthy marriage, or are you ever tempted to feel restricted?

I know that even the best of people are less than perfect, so I am just wondering if the devil ever tries to make you feel resentment. I've encountered a situation with someone who is outwardly very remorseful most of the time, but as time wears on, is feeling the EPs could be relaxed just a teensy bit.

Not to completely TJ, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

And just to add, I don't think the EPs should EVER be relaxed. I just wondered if it is normal for a former wayward, who is still repentant, to start balking at one or two boundaries. For instance, for him to say "Well surely I can get a haircut or a doctor's exam from a female." Would there ever be an exception?

I guess what I really want to know, is this a red flag that he is wanting to step out again, or more of a pride issue, if for instance he takes ragging from his buddies for not being "allowed" to do the "normal, innocent" things most people do.

I actually have a couple of other questions, so if you would prefer, I could start another thread.

Tst, thankyou for sharing that list.

I have always felt abnormal that I didn't want my husband to have a haircut or a doctors exam from a female. I have allowed it because its just normal (and in the NHS in England you really don't get to choose your doctors anyway most of the time) but reading your list has made me feel that maybe I wasn't so crazy to feel these things.

I'm back.....it's been a while since i posted.....well, it seems like nothing has changed...we still have our good days and bad days.....just had a bad day, yesterday.....my h says that nothing has changed, and that we still go on with daily life just the same as before and during the a.....i tell him that it has changed, because....i want to be there

he says that he still feels the same, that it's not getting any better......and, i tell him, like i have from the beginning, that it's going to take time.....i don't know how much....but, i'm willing to do whatever it takes to make things right....when he has a meltdown, he says some really hurtful things to me...i know, i deserve it.....but, in my heart, i don't think that he really means it, i think he's trying to hurt me as much as i have hurt him...tells me things like.....you're going to die a lonely person, and that i'm going to hell.....your parents must be proud....the list goes on and on....

guess i'm just looking for re-assurance, once again, that this is normal....i just can't stand the pain inside, though.....i've been crying all morning.....i just want to take his pain away....

i know my h, we've been with each other for 20 years....deep down i know that he wants to work things out, but i think he's afraid.....afraid that it's going to happen again, that i'm going to leave....i don't know....and, he's put up a wall and i feel that he's not allowing himself to love me again (he hasn't told me that he loves me since d day)...we'll go out with friends, laugh and have a good time, and then the very next day, he'll tell me that he was just pretending

i'm assuming this is normal, from reading other posts.....but this just gives me a way to vent....i don't have anyone to talk to....i do have 2 good friends that know, but, they have never been in a situation like mine, at least not that i know of....and, it's just hard.....takes me right to the edge sometimes......

I'm a BH and your situation almost describes mine exactly. Good days and bad days. I would say you are probably right - your BH is afraid you are going to leave. After all you left him (either physically and/or mentally - doesn't really matter) once before. Why not again? I think if you want to help your H you need to show him and prove to him why you love him so much. Why he is a better choice then the OM? Its not enough to just say I love you. Write it down for him. Surprise him with a long email or letter describing good qualities about him. I wish my own WW would do this for me but won't. It would help me out tremendously. Even if your H believes you when you say you love him he is probably thinking in the back of his mind well she loves me bc she has to or loves me but probably loves/loved the OM more. Prove to him that this is not true. Unless it is - then you have more issues to deal with then I can help out with.

I have done this.....several times....I'll find a card that says the right thing, and, I fill all of the empty space in with my thoghts and apologies......his big thing is saying it's been __ months (we're almost at 8 months) and I don't feel any better....
i hate seeing him hurt like this...

he'll say the same thing, about me leaving for those 10 months, and i know that.....i think maybe he feels he's getting back at me for what i did....when he puts me down and says the hurtful things.....and i do think that's a big part of it, he said he gets upset when he talks to the guys he works with, and they all say, your wife is so nice....and in his mind, he's thinking, huh-if you only knew.....he'd like to tell them that, but yet he doesn't want to....if that makes any sense.....like i said before, i feel that he wants to hurt me because of what i did and how i turned our family upside down

i tell him that i'm willing to do anything to make this up to him and the girls, and make this marriage work, no matter how long it takes.....if i were to leave, like he asks me to all the time.....i'd be taking the easy way out......what we're going thru is hell...and, i wouldn't wish this on anyone.....

Parkjee,

Is OM out of the picture, that is moved away and is OMW helping to maintain separation and is she aware of what happened? His proximity might be a factor for your H.

NJ

I have to say your H sounds a lot like me. Especially with all those nasty comments. Guilty here. Trying to stop but very hard. At the same time, you can't be a doormat. You are allowed to standup for yourself. My WW will not let me get away with too much - off to the couch for her. And I respect her for that - I think I should be allowed to express how hurt I feel and stuff like that - but not be nasty about it. Bc ultimately that turns her away from me. My WW responds best when I talk about the A calmly and matter of factly. Have you suggested this to your H? That if he talks calmly with out nasty comments that you will talk and answer questions without hesitation. And have you been completely open and honest with him? About everything? No 'protecting' his feelings. That's one thing in our R that has hindering it - my WW not being truthful about her feelings about the A and the OM. She doesn't want to hurt me but in reality lying hurts much more.

The work thing makes sense - I find myself not really talking about my WW as much. This way I don't have to deal with thinking bad about her. Same here - I would like to tell more people but in a sense I don't want other people to look down upon my W. Strange huh? She has an A but I don't want others to think bad of her. That's reserved for me.

Whatever you do don't leave or even agree with him. He is I think testing you - he wants to really know that you want to be here. Just keep telling him I'm not even considering it. Tell him you will stay here as long as it takes. Tell him you are in it for the long haul. However that doesn't mean he gets to treat you badly for 20 years. But 8 months is too short to expect him to be completely over it. And whatever you do - don't say things like 'just get over it', or it is in the past. That kind of thing. Bc your H is living it every day. Tell him you want to move forward but you understand why he is having a touch time dealing with it.

I agree, he does need to express the anger and hurt....even though he tells me that he's become callous to all of the hurt, i know better....if that was the case, he wouldn't be having the outbursts....and, most of the time, we do end up talking calmly about things.....i just hate that all of the anger comes out first....

that's his big thing....telling me to just pack up some things and go to my parents' house....he'll say just for a week or so....i don't know why he thinks that will make things better...and when he says that, i know he's thinking, maybe she'll change her mind, and that's really what she wants......no, it's not....i want to stay and make it work

trust me, i know he's nowhere near coming to peace with it, that's going to take a really long time.....and truthfully, i know that it will always be there....but, hopefully in time, i'm hoping for it to be way in the back of his mind......i've never told him to forget about it, or to get over it.....i tell him that we need to work on getting back on track and our future together.....

i've told him about MB, and that we are not the only ones who are in this type of situation.....but, he's reluctant to check it out......i tell him that i know not every person's story is the same, but it is somewhat comforting to know that you're not the only person experiencing certain thoughts snd feelings....and that, evidently, the way he feels is normal.....
and that if other couples can get thru it, with a good turnout, than, so can we....we just need to try...

I think for a lot of people anger is just another way of expressing pain. But being angry is sometimes easier bc is makes you less vulnerable or weak. I'm guessing this is probably true with a lot of BH more then BW. Society thing that guys are supposed to be tough. Your true enemy is apathy - that's when you know your really in trouble.

I think you are right about the going to your parent's house comment. He is testing you. You need to show now more then ever that you are 100% committed. Don't get discouraged and agree with him - even if he asks you 50 times. The one time you say ok I'm going will justify his thoughts about you not really wanting to be there.

A lot of people to get through it - but a lot of people don't. That's just the reality. I think the people who get through it are the ones who really become open and honest with each other. And not just telling their S what they think they need/want to hear. You can have a new M based on honesty.

I was reading through your thread and you really didn't say much about the A. Because in a sense your actions almost seem to good to be true from a BH point of view (talking about after the A of course). Seems like you have done a lot of things right. I wish my WW would come on here or read more stuff. She is pretty resistant. Just wants to move ahead and stay focused on the present. But that's pretty common for WS. What kind of A did you have? You wrote is was 10 months but was it a romantic A where you totally fell for the OM? Were you 'in love' with the OM? Or was it kind of friends with benefits situation? The reason I ask is it might make a difference with how your H is getting over it. I think most guys can understand (although not condone) the whole friends with benefits scenario (heck most single guys dream of finding a few of these before they are M) but the romantic A is a little harder to get over if your H is questioning weather you loved the OM or him more. Have you talked about this with your H?

I think that's exactly what my A was, you hit the nail on the head...I really don't have any girlfriends to call my own...all of my girlfriends are spouses of my H's friends....and, I'm not saying that that justify's my A, I'm just stating the facts. The OM was someone to "complain to"...and, I did tell my H that's what our conversations were about....he'd [censored] about his W, and I'd [censored] about you....and, we had sex....i didn't love him, i never pictured us being together, or anything along those lines.....and, I definitely never stopped loving my H.....and I've told him this....but, who's going to believe anything I say, after what I've done!

I don't think you can ever justify an A but I think you should understand why and what caused you to have one so you don't repeat it. Obviously poor boundaries are an issue - although I think a lot of people aren't aware that they need boundaries until after an A. A good example would be becoming friends with the opposite sex. And I mean good friends - someone who you talk with on the phone a lot and confide in. People on these boards have differing opinions but I think its a really bad idea. I truly believe my WW didn't mean to have an A but really just wanted to have a friend to talk with who 'got' her. But she herself has admitted that's its different when you are friends with someone of the opposite sex. There is always that underlying sexual element unless you are just totally repulsed by that other person. And then if you throw in issues in a M like we had (not meeting EN), the chance of an A becomes much higher. If I had know more about boundaries (and I'm not perfect here either) then I would have stopped their 'friendship' before it went to another level. And yes - a 'better' person with higher morals would still not have the A but I think some people delude themselves when they say I could never have an A. I think a better attitude is that I am never going to put myself in position to have an A. That's what EP are all about.

As for you situation only you really know how you felt about the OM. 10 months is pretty close to a long term affair. And for most women when you start having sex with another man it definitely adds a connection to that other person. So I'm thinking it was proably more then just a friends with benefits kinds of thing. The answer would be how you and your OM talked with each other. Did you tell each you loved one other, etc. Either way its bad so in the end it doesn't matter but I think its important to be honest with yourself and with your H. If he feels you are still holding back or lying he is going to have a tougher time in recovery. He already has taken you back. He knows most of the sordid details. Don't hinder your R by trying to 'protect him'.

I do believe it is possible that you still loved your H. You obviously did not show it by your actions. I'm guessing you would have rathered been 'connected' to your H but for some reason you just couldn't and it was probably easier with this OM bc there were no other 'real' life issues to deal with. I think you should try to explain this to your H if this was the case. Make him feel that you would have always rathered to be connected to him but you just didn't know how to do it and messed up by not working harder to fix your M and taking the selfish/easy way out and having an A to make yourself happy.

You could always agree to take a polygraph to prove to your H that you are not lying. Not sure how you feel about this but you could offer it as an options to your H to prove to him that you are not lying anymore.

Also are there any kind of groups you could join to try to network a bit? Any kind of hobbies you like. Maybe make some more friends.

for me, that is a terrible excuse. before the A, did you ever think that cheating on him wouldn't have broken his heart?