Marriage Builders
Posted By: DancesWithGoats My husband is here now what? - 01/11/09 07:51 PM
Here is my basic story http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2190151#Post2190151

He found this site himself and has been ordering MP3s and downloading questionaires etc. In other words he seems to be trying but then again, is he?

After a 6 year relationship with someone else I know he is a very good liar. He is also a narcisisst. He will stop at nothing to get what he wants and what he wants is more important than anything and should be to me too. He seems to be undergoing a very large change and we have had some very long talks about it and I always come away encouraged but how is that any different than any of those times he dishonestly reassured me when he was seeing her?

I am emotionally strung out now with huge highs and huge lows. I assume this is normal but I now am having to take blood pressure meds and anti anxiety drugs and neither seem to be helping.

We are 3 1/2 months out from my discovery day. He says he wants to work with this information here but now I don't even have this place to share in private. Any suggestions? I have some friends who know but I am far away from them and their idea of support is something I can't say here (no, not kill him but all kinds of other unpleasant things) and it is not helpful.

How do you know when the lying has stopped? When can you begin to relax and work on things? I have read and read this site but nothing is sinking in, I can't think or read much more than a page before I am back in victim mode and I hate being there.

Posted By: shattered dreams Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/11/09 08:35 PM
Approach him about scheduling consultation with the Harley's, the founders of this site, and let the professionals give you direction. His reaction should speak volumes.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/11/09 09:41 PM
Well, you have a lot of years with him, so who knows? I can tell you that my ex knew about MB, and I invited him to post here, but he never did read or post.

So I will give your hubby a couple of points for that.

I think you will just have to give it more time to see if these changes are real.

Hopefully he will post here.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/12/09 01:52 PM
Thank you SD. I suggested that last night and he said he was ready to do anything. We will see. I feel he is being very sincere in his desire to make things right and I certainly, even after this long relationship, am not willing to just react and toss 30 years.

That last statement makes me feel so totally stupid that I can barely let it stand. It seem though, that when I found out and threw him out the fog not only started to clear it was like a mighty wind came up and blew it away. For me it is like going from being despised floor scrubber to the queen all at once. Hard to trust even myself to stay clear headed here.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/12/09 01:56 PM
Thank you Believer.

I will give him those points for now.

I had no idea that the WS's were welcome to post here. I suppose they would not be here in this section? I have got to clear my mind and get with this. Too much time wallowing in the clouds of despair and not enough productive time yet.

Posted By: doingfine Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/12/09 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Thank you Believer.

I will give him those points for now.

I had no idea that the WS's were welcome to post here. I suppose they would not be here in this section? I have got to clear my mind and get with this. Too much time wallowing in the clouds of despair and not enough productive time yet.

yup, WS's want direction and help, thankfully! Usually by the time they come here they are "former" WS's, No one bashes them, typically, once in awhile someone gets something off their chest but its for the common good.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/15/09 01:16 PM
Thanks.

I told him and he is thinking about it. I have no clue where this relationship, my M, is. I don't trust my own judgment and I don't trust him although he seems to be doing everything in his power to do this right including a MC, working on himself and his issues, reading this site continuously and spending absolutely hours and hours talking to me about this. Honestly I think we jumped right into recovery after I found out in early October and threw his [censored] out. It seemed to awaken him from his A fog and the fact that he had really not ever been married to me even though we had been married for 26 years. It seems odd but the more I read here I see him in every A and I see the differences in the way he has handled it from so many.

Do you think I could post in recovery and get responses about that now or is it too early to be starting another post? I have this post and the original already and hate to spam the board with more.

We are considering calling for an appointment (or more) here, in fact I am going to do it myself and maybe then the two of us. I need so much help and reassurance but then again, I do not want to spam the board. Just wondering.

Thank you so much for the response.
Posted By: catperson Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 07:52 PM
Did you set up the extraordinary measures to ensure he has no contact? Did you send his No Contact letter to OW? Did he give you all his passwords or delete them? Does he call you whenever he goes anywhere so you won't worry?

That is where you start trying to feel safe - when he's willing to do these things for you.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 09:48 PM
YES!

I was amazed to find out that I had pretty much done what everyone here says is required but I did not do the exposure or start plans because I did not find out about them until just recently when I found this site.

He has agreed to everything I have asked and had even suggested some things. I saw the email response to her asking for NC and I sent one myself to her. There were a couple from him because he was not honest at first with me (go figure) and I heard a voice mail NC request when she kept calling and then I saw a response to her over IM when she was pretending to be someone else for 2 months. She then revealing her ingenious way of setting up a way they could stay in contact without me being suspicious. She was just watching and waiting until the right time to let him know it was her all along. He busted her to me, that made me feel pretty secure about it and he responded in a way she did not want by saying to this "old friend" that he was committed to me. There has been nothing else from her, probably for a month now.

He used everything I did, everything I love to do, as a chance to get with her. I saw the phone records of their conversations before I left then the post coital conversations before I got home after he left her bed. Now he has to call me every 30 minutes from the home phone when I am away and leave a message. This is not entirely secure since she could come to my house, and has, but it was the best I could do. I call him, he calls me. He probably feels like he is in prison but he knows it is what is needed for a long time to come. He also suggested and has the GPS if he remembers to turn it on.

6 years is going to take a while to get over. This site and all the responses have been so helpful. Thank you. He is now here posting, starting today. I think he is serious but you know how it goes, trust is hard to build up again. We will keep on trying. smile thanks.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 10:10 PM
I just posted to your H. I am so sorry for your needing to be here. A 6 year LTA is a lot to recover from. I hope it gives you a feeling of self empowerment to know that you can choose to work on the M or not. It really is up to you.

I like the suggestion of the GPS but want to warn you not to make yourself your H's keeper. He is either in it or not. If he is forgetting to turn on the gps, I would be suspicious.

The good news is, you don't have to decide right away whether to stay M'd or not. Just remember to listen carefully to your gut. If something does not feel right, then it's not.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 10:33 PM
SSS,

I, too amd sorry you are here...but glad that you have found MB. It has helped many people recover from affairs, even LTAs, and it can help you too **IF** your H is on board.

FF is right...do not become his "keeper". Let HIM do the heavy lifting, that will give you a huge clue as to weather or not he is really serious or not.

Is it possible that he was kind of "done" with the A when he got caught? Was he tired of the lying, sneaking around, etc. and so it wasn't as hard as you think to give it up?

Do you know if he had ever tried to end it on his own?

The answers to these questions might be helpful to you....

(((hugs)))



Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 11:09 PM
sss, here is your fastest horse:



The Marriage BuildersĀ® Weekend
Minneapolis, Minnesota
January 23rd & 24th, 2009
at the Embassy Suites Minneapolis - Airport.
Free shuttle service to the Minneapolis - St. Paul International Airport and the Mall of America (520 stores and several indoor rollercoasters!) http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi011_0901.html

That will give you a crash course in MB and you will get daily access to Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist, afterwards. He teaches the course and his staff walks you through all the lessons after you get home.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 11:43 PM
Hi! You have been very helpful to him and I appreciate that since it helps me as well. Neither of us are in very good shape at the moment but time will tell how this turns out. Lots of work ahead.

Yes it is up to me. He certainly put me in the power seat with this one. A huge change from what I am used to from him. Part of our problem is that he never counted on me having enough gumption to not be that little slave he decided he wanted after we got married. It hurt for years and ended up this way. I knew it would but there is no way I could be what he ended up wanting me to be. The kids kept me with him and now this has happened. We actually got along simply because he totally ignored me and I am quite capable of functioning alone even though it was painful to say the least. The very last thing I want is to be his keeper. I could have found out about this sooner had I ever wanted to be that but I chose not to spy and follow him around when I should have I suppose.

I promised him from the beginning that I would not make a rash, knee jerk decision. Inside I always saw the good man, he just stopped being that person to me. I have hope so I will work. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't but it will not be for lack of trying.

Thanks.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 11:53 PM
Actually he was done with her. She had a car accident and had her license taken away about 14 months or so before I found out and she depended on him for groceries and everything she needed. He was, in all sense of the term, her husband. He just lived in my house. For the last 2 years of our marriage he barely knew I existed and I could not break through to him. He is a very good liar, very reassuring when he could not avoid me. He was very busy with his committee work (very busy). She started to try to get him to leave me. She got suspicious that he was cheating on her with someone else (not me of course). She started getting inappropriate in many ways and he was going crazy. He wanted out but she threatened him so he just waited until I finally found out, chicken *blank* that he had become. She saved a lot of the naughty little emails and IM's and was going to pass them along. Then she threatened after he sent the NC to send them to our kids and everyone he worked with. So, he was ready to leave and that does not really give me a lot of comfort since if that had not been the case he would probably have ended up leaving me for her. I do not think he ever really tried to end it.

(((hugs))) back and thank you.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/16/09 11:56 PM
Thanks Melody. Thanks for helping him too smile. We may not make that one since it is coming up so soon but we will be doing everything else until we can do it. I have to give it all the chances that I can or I will never forgive myself for not trying. Does that sound as stupid as I think it does after all of this? As I said before, 30 years is just to much to throw away without trying to save it even if it is incredibly painful.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 12:06 AM
sss, please try and go! That will give y'all the best chance possible and will put you in the hands of Dr. Harley, who is THE BEST. He knows what he is doing and it will be well worth the time. He is a alot different from other marriage counselors in that he actually knows how to save marriages. [the success rate of marriage counselors at large is 16%, that is how ineffective they are] It is hard to do this flying blind. It made a huge difference in my marriage.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 12:15 AM
We are going to have to do this and we both want to, I just think we may have to wait until the next one because of previous commitments. I do freelance and I have a contract so I may have to work at that time. It is also hard to get farm help when I need to go, it can be done but it takes some planning time. We WILL do it. Until then we will do everything else following the directions here and in the books. I also think we are going to try the phone sessions, we just need to get them set up.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
We are going to have to do this and we both want to, I just think we may have to wait until the next one because of previous commitments. I do freelance and I have a contract so I may have to work at that time. It is also hard to get farm help when I need to go, it can be done but it takes some planning time. We WILL do it. Until then we will do everything else following the directions here and in the books. I also think we are going to try the phone sessions, we just need to get them set up.

The MB weekend is a MUST, and if you absolutely HAVE to put it off until the next one, then DO the phone counseling in the meantime. That will at least get the ball rolling.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 05:13 AM
P.S. not to freak you out or anything...but when we went to the MBW 1.5 years ago, Steve Harley told me (we were doing phone counseling with him at the time) that they were in the process of eliminating the MBW (for no other reason than they are VERY taxing on everyone involved).

I don't know how much closer they are to that goal, but just an FYI....don't want you to miss out, thinking there will be plenty more. There may not be.

Posted By: imagine Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 01:33 PM
Give yourself a second nom-de-plume and make these comments on Mr G's address.

Let's see him answer these in public.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 03:23 PM
Thanks for this info. We are both free for the next one the end of March and will talk to our farm sitter and see if she can do those two days. If not I have a little time to arrange things in a different manner so we can go.

It is very pricey but it seems to be less so when I read about the follow-up and the success everyone has had. It seems a small price to pay to save this M since we can afford to do it. I just keep telling myself this is a few months of OWs groceries we are not paying for anymore! Makes it easy for me wink.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 03:27 PM
That is a great suggestion but since he probably just read this I doubt I would get any answers I have not already gotten!

All will come out eventually, it seems it has but you never know till you go through all the steps I guess.

I am feeling somewhat encouraged today, yesterday not so much. If I had read this yesterday my answer would have been much different. This rollercoaster is not fun and I LOVE rollercoasters.

Thank you.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/17/09 04:37 PM
Quote
This rollercoaster is not fun and I LOVE rollercoasters.
I do too and you are right....THIS rollercoaster bites.

And unfortunately, it's a very long one. frown
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 03:41 PM
Back to the beginning. Will this ever stop?

Well, this addition of my husband to this forum is not quite what I thought it would be...I thought I would feel better because I thought I was ready for this. It is working, that is certain, but not in ways I thought.

When I first found out about the A it took about 2 weeks for him to come clean with the magnitude of the 6 year long life he had built with this woman. I told him I needed absolute honesty because if I ever found out about more it would send me right back to the initial stages of this horrible recovery. I told him I was willing to work on it but only if he stopped hurting me and our M and let me start with all the truth. About a month and a half into it he told me she had been threatening him and requesting hush money. He corresponded with her and sent her a large sum of money. Back to square one. About 2 weeks after that he came clean with about 12 interesting and very hurtful truths he had been hiding. Last night, after reading here and then looking at the forums I questioned him about something others had been asking. I asked him if the two of them had seriously talked about their life if and when he left me. She is really not the kind of woman you plan a future with. Before he had said that she had but he had not. Well, that is not entirely true. She had talked about it but he had listened and spoke about it some (some, sure it was only some). Then I asked him to tell me truthfully how seriously he was in love with her because he has been stalling with that answer. After 6 years you can imagine his answer was more than it had been before. He told me he was out of love with me for many many years. The story goes on and here I am back at the beginning EXCEPT I have tools now and some working knowledge about this.

I was getting ready to throw this all into Recovery and I think, if someone will advise me how to do that without starting all of this over (should I just link these two threads and start a new one in Recovery?), I am ready because I see that we really had not progressed. There were still lies and probably still are. He hesitated with me when I told him I was going to schedule a polygraph. "Have you told me everything?" Hemming and hawing he said he had to think if there was anything he had left out. After doing this monsterous work now for getting on 4 months I can't imagine an answer like that if there was not more so I am now back at the beginning of recovery and about to throw in the towel. Well, at this moment I am but you know how that goes.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 05:00 PM
Hi Sad,

First, I wouldn't move your posts around to different boards, people lose the thread, so to speak. Just keep this one going.

Well, if you read your H's thread, you can see I'm not his favorite person. I think he is a master manipulator who has learned to say what he needs to say to get his way in his marriage, and even after getting busted on repeated lies -- even in the course of a handful of posts here --he grovels and pleads for new trust and lashes out when it isn't immediately granted.

If you are going to keep this guy around, this probably calls for the most extraordinary measures imaginable.

If I were you (and I sort of am) I would compile a list of every thing I wanted the truth on (including or especially including things he has told you already that you 'believe"). Ask the members here to help formulate that list.

Then, have him write out full and complete answers to them. Review those answers and ask for more details or explanation where needed.

Then take it to a polygrapher. Remember, even if he says "I don't know" or "I don't remember" that will show up on the polygraph as a lie if he does.

Here is a stab at a beginning of a list:

-- When did you first meet OW?
-- When was the first phsical encounter?
-- Where was the first physical encounter?
-- How many physical encounters where there over the 6 six years? Figuring that is something like 300 weekends, was it once a week? More?
-- Did he ever have himself tested for STDs during this period?
-- were there any sexual encounters with other women during this period? (I'll bet there were, by the way)
-- How did you communicate with her:

Text?
email?
Cell phone?
Land phone?
Chats?

--When did you first give her money?
--How much money do you estimate you gave her over six years, including groceries and gifts?

-- More than $50k? More than 100k? More than 200k? More than $300k? It is was even a grand a week for all her living expenses, that is in excess of $300 dollars.
-- Did you go on out-of state triops or vacations with her? Where and when?
-- sex acts...well...that is your call. I had to know, but it is a double edged sword.

etc, others may chime in...

Due to this guy's extraordinary truth issues, I'd repeat it periodically too...

PS: this site should be YOUR resource. If I were you I would get him off here, change your name, put a keylogger on his computers to see if he ever visits and establish dire consequences if he does. He wants to work with MB, that's fine you don't need these boards to do that.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
When I first found out about the A it took about 2 weeks for him to come clean with the magnitude of the 6 year long life he had built with this woman. I told him I needed absolute honesty because if I ever found out about more it would send me right back to the initial stages of this horrible recovery. I told him I was willing to work on it but only if he stopped hurting me and our M and let me start with all the truth.

SSS, I agree very much that you should schedule a polygraph and follow the outline that Mike gave you. I want to address the point above and explain what I think is happening here. Your H has become a trained liar over the past 6 years. That is not an easy habit to break. He has lived a life of subterfuge so honesty IS NOT NATURAL TO HIM. He has trained his moral compass otherwise. So when he "comes clean" he is in the practice of being dishonest and will only say what he has to say to get out of trouble.

He doesn't like this about himself and is using psychobabble to cover up this troubling trait "my ego deluded its keeper."

But I think he is trying and I hope you give him a chance and help him retrain his moral compass. He won't get it right the first time, but some support and some practice, he can make it. He has some excellent folks posting to him who can help him in this regard.

Mike, I see what you are seeing and understand your concerns. He doesn't come across as honest because honesty is so foreign to him. We see this trait in new alcoholics who come into AA. They are long time liars so it takes longer for them to learn honesty. I believe this is what is troubling you.

And SSS, I IMPLORE YOU, BEG YOU to get hooked into a MB weekend. Your marriage can make it if you get an exceptional level of care. Dr. Harley can handle your husband, whereas I don't think your run of the mill counselor can deal with him. He will run right over them.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
PS: this site should be YOUR resource. If I were you I would get him off here, change your name, put a keylogger on his computers to see if he ever visits and establish dire consequences if he does. He wants to work with MB, that's fine you don't need these boards to do that.

Mike, I think he needs this board because other posters are able to call him on his bullcrap. I don't know that SS is very adept in that regard but posters like you, me and tst can easily see when he is doing that.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 06:39 PM
Thank you Mike. He has been greatly upset by your posts. I have been reading the thread and finally told him that you all were on to the same wave length that I was on and he should listen to you all. It sucks when you hear truth that you do not want to hear and I can hardly feel real sorry for him considering the truths I have been listening to.

He puked out (your term and I like it) some more crap this morning in a gush of sobs and info I did not want to hear but had to. I am so jaded at the moment that the only thing that crossed my mind at that time was the old kids song, "Great Big Bags of Greasy Grimy Gopher's Guts". Forgive me, I am a musician and everything has a song including gushing and sobbing truth telling. This was in response to what you had said in his thread, I told him I was going to schedule a polygraph. I am. I just took all my meds, including the crazy pills I have been given to get through this and he has 30 minutes to come clean before I start compiling a list. He has today and then when he has the list to be truthful. I will give him the chance to answer things he does not know are coming. After he fills it out the polygraph will be the final.

I hate to say this but you have him pegged. I am so damned naive and trusting by nature that I never ever thought he could do something like this to me. No matter how much he ignored me and tried to push me around (I don't push) I never saw this coming. I had hints, big ones, but I maintained that nobody could ever treat someone this badly. Especially after the after effects of the first one night stand he had.

This is going to be a very difficult day for me and I am not looking forward to it. I am literally shaking waiting for the last shoes to drop. How could this be worse than it already is? The tears are coming, I am going to close up for a while. All I can say to you and to everyone else here is that I am so glad to have found you. I live too far away from the people I know to have a lot of support. I will answer the rest later and I will be taking your advice.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 06:56 PM
Take heart - it is very common for the WS to make many promises to the OW, none of which he intends to keep. I read on the OW board, and it happens hundreds of times. The OW there are whining that they had a future planned, and many have been in long term relationships, when the WS suddenly dumps them. They always have a hard time believing it.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 07:53 PM
sadsosad...

A few other points and thoughts:

--what BP are you on? After d-day my BP went through the roof, in fact, I honestly believe I got eye damage. It was like 190 over 152. When I laid down my heart was pounding in my ears, heart racing, mind racing, couldn't sleep....you have to get that under control, that is your HEALTH.

--Don't be complacent with your anti-dep/anxiety scrips. They are extremely individual to personal chemistry. I rolled through a bunch of them until I found one that works for me -- I won't even say the name because it would only prejudice you. Get a doc that understands this.

--Your shock at betrayal is standard. My WW is a shy quiet church receptionist. The most virtuous person anyone in our lives knows. Charity, religion, has never as much as said "sh1t" in 24 years I've known her. But lied her butt off to me for two years on a daily basis. It was like a daily cinder block in the head the first few weeks after D-day thinking about it. It does get better if you get on the road to recovery.

-- do not be complacent about this OW being out of your lives. It is disgusting to think, but all the pain you are going through about a damaged relationship she is too, from losing GM. Sick, huh? But you know in your own mind right now how that pain can make you act and feel, so be vigilant.

-- When that "large sum of money" GM sends her ran out, she will be back for more. It sounds like she has no income....what he did was the equivalent of feeding the dog at the table. Her blackmail worked.

Sorry I was "tough love" on GM. He is a very smart and successful guy, obviously. But in terms of relationships, I think he is a guy that needs to be stripped down to zero ego and retrained, like a Marine at Quantico. He has learned very manipulative and deceptive coping skills to meet his needs, and it is tough to teach an old dog new tricks. But....he seems willing to at least play the game.

Words mean NOTHING at this stage. You will go "kiss or kill" in four hour cycles. My OW and I swapped breakup/makeup roles on a daily basis. Actions are what matter. When you are at high and low points on the rollercoaster try to stay away from conversations.

Lastly, certainly don't take my word as bible....the varsity vets here have dropped me in disgust because of my post D-day freak on the OM, I over-exposed to the whole world, I kicked WW out three times, and I'm in court trading cross-harrassment complaints right now with OM. I'm no model. But many people here can give you pieces of the puzzle.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 09:19 PM
We have not signed up yet but are planning on the MB Weekend in March. We just need the farm sitter and I have found the name of one other in case the one we use is unable so we can book it early this week.

He is going to arrange some phone sessions or we are I guess. He will be going to the MC here by himself for a while. We were working on the premise that he had outed himself but he had not and he needs to address this and the why of it all. She has really been very good for us, guiding us through the rough times mostly. I see no harm or conflict with staying with her, we like her and she knows about this site and I would guess by now she has looked at it.

He is going to write a NC letter. The previous letters were not what needed to be said so we are going to do that again and formally, not just email leave me alone notes.

You all know him very well. I am glad that nobody was too afraid to say what you have. I have been telling him this for years and years but he would not hear it, I was childish you know.

Thanks for your continued help for both of us. It is a pretty raw day.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 09:23 PM
Thanks. There are moments I actually feel a bit sorry for her but then I come to my senses wink. He used her as well and she used him even more than he used her. They actually belong together because I can't imagine the dirty, nasty, lying little life they inhabited. Makes me really sick. She will be back.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 09:44 PM
Mike,

I have not read your previous posts about your relationship so I don't have a clue why you say they dropped you but I do think I like you and I do appreciate your style. You actually got through to my WH, it took just that style to piss him off enough to open his eyes (with a little pushing from me).

My BP was about what yours was and it was awful. I did not sleep for night after night and I went totally nuts. 2 times in the ER and they were ready to send me to a Psych ward but I already had several appointments lined up so I escaped that. Should have gone, I could have used the rest.

I was put on an Anti Depressant several years ago after the death of my brother (the same time my WH decided he needed love from someone else) so that was OK. Now I have the BP med, and anti anxiety med and a new anti depressant starting today to add to the lot. What fun **rolling eyes**.

Interesting about your WW. Must have been a real shock to you. I know that feeling, my gut is in knots all the time and after this afternoon it is worse. He has to purge all the info though and I have to hear it.

Turns out she was a hooker first, a friend and hooker second then he fell in love with her while still paying her for sex. Funny, he could have had all that at home if he had just expressed an interest in me. As it was he just was moving on I suppose with the extra added benefit of a presentable wife to drag along to family functions and the hooker to be in love with. Oh yes, the money figure is adding up. She was not even a cheap hooker although she is certainly a cheap person in every way imaginable. The amount is going to be pretty substantial since there was extra for her expenses for 6 years!

You are correct, she will be back. He sent her a check for 4 figures and she replied asking what in the heck she was supposed to do with that little amount. Oh yes, she will be back. She is probably hooking again (I doubt she stopped just because of her "love" for my husband) but he thinks she is getting poor without him. So what?

He needed tough love. It has helped believe it or not.

I understand about the cycles. Man oh man is that true and I hate the schizo feeling I get living like this. After the revelations of today I am just sick but I will live through this but I think I have cycled about 6 times in the last couple of hours. I will go out and walk my goats and sing like Julie Andrews and try to feel better.

Once again thank you. We all need a little tough love now and again doncha think?
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 10:14 PM

A hooker? Sorry, but lol....

Sometimes it just gets to dark comedy, doesn't it?

About three months after D-day my WW and I are sitting on the deck and she starts tearing up. I said what's the matter?

She sobs and says "I think I'm pregnant"

Now it transpires this was 6 or 7 months after the OM and her had been physical, and it would have been mine, but somehow it just hit me as the comedic last straw and I started LAUGHING. I couldn't stop. Tears rolling down my face. Abdominal cramps. WW said she thought I had finally snapped and gone crazy. She backed away in horror and went inside.

God, for some dark reason I still look back and it and laugh. It was like "Oh! Perfect! Nice plot point!"

Anyway, for whatever solace it is, get everything out, think of every question. Build the new foundation on bedrock not quicksand...

Just last week I had a mini-revelation when one of my kids mentioned that OM had gone with them to this park for the day last year. And D said knew enough without being told that she shouldn't tell daddy. Now, I knew WW had done some little outings with my kids and OM (they were only friends!), but this as just a fresh little knife twist and another setback.

Posted By: MicheleG Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 10:29 PM
SSS,

Just a note. I'd send that NC letter certified. You want proof that OW dirtbag received it. Save that receipt. After you have sent it anytime she tries to C GM or you document it. She may not do anything in the future but it's best to have proof of her total disregard and harrassment of the two of you.

Glad you are here. You are not alone.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 11:26 PM
Oh Mike, but she was HIS hooker, not a real one except that she was found on the internet and she charged money each time. See, they promised fidelity to each other.........Yah I know, sometimes you have to laugh, you just have to like the "Great Big Bags of Greasy Grimy Gopher's Guts" this morning. It was all I could do to not laugh when 4 lies came out in a stream, not a breath between. It is NOT funny, he is NOT funny I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression but damn...it is too much sometimes to contain it in the pain zone. I hit the pain zone again later when the whole, sordid story was spelled out for me finally. Hopefully the whole story.

I am sorry about your set back. That is the worst part of the recovery or trying to start the recovery. Little things that come out that set you back to the beginning. Why can't they just put it all out there instead of dragging it all out and killing you daily and slowly? It really makes me think there was a lot of "Take This" in the affair. Why I don't know but it sure feels like it.
Posted By: Stellakat Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/18/09 11:36 PM
Any husband who paid a hooker should be served divorce papers. And sued for bringing you a disease. Lets see. Get a good attorney and sue him blind. I would.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 12:18 AM
And more comes out and I am not laughing. Seems there are lots of IMs where they discussed him leaving me and them getting a wonderful little house together and having a wonderful little life together. There are also web cam pictures that make me want to throw up. Along with many IMs of sex talk all had while I was in the home. She is holding those over his head and over mine as well. My kids have been warned not to open them if they come.

Question. What do I do if they come to me? I don't know if the info in them would be helpful or if it would just kill me. Just asking because I see this in my future.

He continues to puke it up.
Posted By: jayne241 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:09 AM
What did you mean when you said that he cheated on her, and not with you? Is there another OW??? Does there need to be another NC letter?

This isn't the first time a WS has compromised the usefulness of this site as a source of support and advice for the BS. I wish there was a password-protected forum or something that everyone could access who had been here a certain amount of time, or who showed up as a BS needing a confidential thread. I wouldn't want it to turn into a limited clique... just exclude people who registered just in the past x number of months, unless they were BS's looking for advice away from prying eyes...

Maybe if there was another category of member: junior member, member, then something else (senior member?) that could access the other forum. And maybe a mod could grant senior status to a BS who was afraid their WS was reading.

Quote
Lastly, certainly don't take my word as bible....the varsity vets here have dropped me in disgust because of my post D-day freak on the OM, I over-exposed to the whole world, I kicked WW out three times, and I'm in court trading cross-harrassment complaints right now with OM. I'm no model. But many people here can give you pieces of the puzzle.

Oh believe me, Mike was quite the nutcase! LOL I gotta say that I was one that had to just go away and stop reading, it was bothering me too much... but he seems saner nowadays. I'm glad you're getting support from him. I guess he hasn't turned into a misogynist! wink

ETA: NC means No Contact with the OW forever for both you and WH. There are more experienced vets here who might have a better suggestion, but maybe any communication from her could be returned to sender? Or given to a trusted friend to read to see if it was anything you should read (like, if she said she had just tested positive for an STD... or revealed more facts that WH had withheld).
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by jayne241
This isn't the first time a WS has compromised the usefulness of this site as a source of support and advice for the BS. I wish there was a password-protected forum or something that everyone could access who had been here a certain amount of time, or who showed up as a BS needing a confidential thread.

Well, you can just take it to email. I had some of the vets chain emailing with me last fall (until they all went dark to avoid testifying in my seemingly inevitable murder trial, lol)

Quote
Oh believe me, Mike was quite the nutcase! LOL I gotta say that I was one that had to just go away and stop reading, it was bothering me too much... but he seems saner nowadays.

Yeah, well, opinions vary. Look at my harrassment charge thread in GQ :-)



Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:26 AM
Hi jayne!

The OW was confrontational when she began to get very possessive of him and she was afraid he was cheating on her because he could not be at her side whenever she called. She was not afraid of it being me, sadly.

I insisted that my WH be tested for STD's. He tested neg thankfully to everything they tested him for and that was almost everything except for one and I got it from him. Thankfully it took no more than 3 weeks of nasty meds that made me throw up every day but it did the trick and that is over. No other women he says and he knows he is very close to getting his polygraph so I think that is probably truthful but we will see.

He has promised in his thread not to look in here at mine. Now there is no way of really knowing but he is getting some very good help and I think he wants to do this right. I just have to hang in there for a little longer, don't know if I can but I am trying.

Hey, Mike kicked my WH's a** until he broke. When I saw what was going on all I had to do was wait and he broke. Mike has been very kind to me so far and I do not feel he has been a misogynist at all. Besides that, I like his sense of humor and I need that right now when it gets testy.

Good idea. I do have a very good friend who would do this for me. I hate to have him look at the disgusting pictures my husband sent and received but I guess that is part of the deal. I will inform him of that likelihood when the time comes, if it does. Thanks for that suggestion.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:28 AM

Quote
She is holding those over his head and over mine as well.

How did she communicate this?

Originally Posted by sadsosad
And
Question. What do I do if they come to me? I don't know if the info in them would be helpful or if it would just kill me. Just asking because I see this in my future.

Speaking as someone who has a harrassment charge against him, lol, consider a harrassment charge or a restraining order.

The wh0re is not going away from her sugar daddy and she thinks she has leverage. Nip it in the bud. Talk to an attorney or the cops or both. Actually, have GM do it. Penance.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:29 AM
Mike, I am still reeling over your answer on another thread. Something about the crosstown bus driver?

The levity is appreciated and much needed.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:38 AM
Again to Mike (man you post quickly!)

She sent an email entitled "Things you should know before others have to." In it were the threats. We called the sheriff and they went to her house and told her to lay off and never contact us again. Since she has a court case pending we thought that would be the end of it since she does not want to be in jail. We then met with a friend of ours, someone we are both close to who happens to be an attorney with quite a rep around here for being a bull dog and not losing very often. He called her while we were sitting there, put her on speaker phone and she had the guts to argue with him. Then she called him back and told him that he did not scare her and she would do whatever she wanted to do (all of this with added expletives that I do not think would be appreciated here). She is supposed to go through him if she has anything to say.

Anything else that needs to be done is being thrown into his lap. He has to do this. I carried a marriage all alone for 26 years with an a** for a husband when he actually cared to communicate with me. This is up to him. I will do my part but not until he has done what he needs to do to make me feel safe. Yup, it is his ball game to play and mine to watch and hopefully clap at his skill.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Again to Mike (man you post quickly!)

She sent an email entitled "Things you should know before others have to." In it were the threats. We called the sheriff and they went to her house and told her to lay off and never contact us again. Since she has a court case pending we thought that would be the end of it since she does not want to be in jail. We then met with a friend of ours, someone we are both close to who happens to be an attorney with quite a rep around here for being a bull dog and not losing very often. He called her while we were sitting there, put her on speaker phone and she had the guts to argue with him. Then she called him back and told him that he did not scare her and she would do whatever she wanted to do (all of this with added expletives that I do not think would be appreciated here). She is supposed to go through him if she has anything to say.

All smart! Well played.

Look, the reality is, she is nuts and threatening exposure, and she will have that stuff the rest of your lives even if you spook her back now. You might very well be better handling exposure to whoever her leverage targets are yourself. Leave her swinging at air.

I was fortunate in that my W's OM was married and as ashamed as my WW was, so nobody wanted it out. During D-day, *I* was the one with emails and records holding over his head, and Wayward Witch was off sobbing in a Comfort Inn.

It is considerable leverage. You can attack it legally, but it will always be there.

Quote
Anything else that needs to be done is being thrown into his lap. He has to do this. I carried a marriage all alone for 26 years with an a** for a husband when he actually cared to communicate with me. This is up to him. I will do my part but not until he has done what he needs to do to make me feel safe. Yup, it is his ball game to play and mine to watch and hopefully clap at his skill.

Make GM be the front man, but it is your ballgame. Don't trust him to handle the OW (sorry GM, protecting you from yourself).


Posted By: keepitreal Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Again to Mike (man you post quickly!)

She sent an email entitled "Things you should know before others have to." In it were the threats. We called the sheriff and they went to her house and told her to lay off and never contact us again. Since she has a court case pending we thought that would be the end of it since she does not want to be in jail. We then met with a friend of ours, someone we are both close to who happens to be an attorney with quite a rep around here for being a bull dog and not losing very often. He called her while we were sitting there, put her on speaker phone and she had the guts to argue with him. Then she called him back and told him that he did not scare her and she would do whatever she wanted to do (all of this with added expletives that I do not think would be appreciated here). She is supposed to go through him if she has anything to say.

Anything else that needs to be done is being thrown into his lap. He has to do this. I carried a marriage all alone for 26 years with an a** for a husband when he actually cared to communicate with me. This is up to him. I will do my part but not until he has done what he needs to do to make me feel safe. Yup, it is his ball game to play and mine to watch and hopefully clap at his skill.


The best defense is a good offense. If you are going to try to R, you and H would do well to expose this affair TOGETHER, to your family and whoever else will need to know. You do not need to live with the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head. Get the nasty stuff out there (within reason) and you will really weaken the OW's artillery of weapons.

She sounds like a vengeful nutcase. How tragic that your H invited her into your life.

Adultery truly stinks!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:32 PM
Melody

I just sent a request for a phone conference. I am certain there will be more than one. We should be set up pretty nicely by the time we go to the weekend in March to get a lot done.

Thanks again to you and everyone else. This painful time is much easier now that I have direction that actually accomplishes something and the support of people who have been there. (((hugs)))
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 02:38 PM
How are you doing, ssd? You must be on a roller coaster of emotions, yet you sound so sane and so good. You must be a woman of great strength.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 03:16 PM
I have certainly had enough in life to make me strong, this is just the next one. I am a magnet for tragedy, mine and others, so yes I am very strong but not necessarily sane. Good? Well you will have to ask others smile. Thanks, all the boosting is helpful.

Yesterday sucked with new revelations. Not only did they hurt it was apparent once again that my H is still ready to sacrifice the truth to save his own skin even if it means rolling over me. That is the problem in a nutshell I think. He has spent his life thinking only of himself and his immediate gratification and I was the only person in his life to ever call him on his bull****. I am also incredibly stubborn and if I made a commitment I am going to stick to it no matter how painful it is. I used to think this was a virtue, now no longer, this was stupid. It certainly set us up for this scenario.

It is horrible then tolerable then I blow up then I cry then I do something constructive, like set up counseling with the center this AM. We have the first on Thursday AM. I am excited to start because it will make me feel better just knowing we did it.

You are very kind. How are you doing?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 03:26 PM
Thank you, we have started that but not as extensively as I see suggested here so we have more to expose this to.

H is writing a final, formal NC letter to her today and will post it after he writes it then I get to say what I need in it. In it he is going to tell her that there is nobody who does not already know to be looking for these things in their email. Hopefully that will pull the wind from her sails.

My thought to her? Honey, you have no power here. Leave before someone drops a house on you too. (too much?)

Maybe you have to live in Kansas to get that?

I did tell her once that she meant very little in our lives. That if we ended up not making it it would not be because of her but because of the problems my H has that makes it impossible to live with him. I don't think she liked it because after that she gave me a pet name smile.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I did tell her once that she meant very little in our lives. That if we ended up not making it it would not be because of her but because of the problems my H has that makes it impossible to live with him.

I wouldn't give her encouragement that there is trouble in your reconciliation. Probably just cause her to throw more stones and try to cause problems.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 04:05 PM
Quote
It is horrible then tolerable then I blow up then I cry then I do something constructive, like set up counseling with the center this AM. We have the first on Thursday AM. I am excited to start because it will make me feel better just knowing we did it.
All quite normal which is why we call it a rollercoaster. You are doing some very productive things which should give you some feeling of control over your life. Not to excuse your WH for lying but it too is (unfortunately) quite normal for them to hold back information. You will find once you get through the whole truth (I hope) that he will have some things he cannot remember. I think our minds protect ourselves from the horror of what we have done by pushing memories out of our minds. Do not let him off the hook though. I like the fact that you did a timeline. Not only will it help him remember but it helps YOU to know what was going on in your life then. It helps to know you were not crazy when you picked up on something wrong or "off". It also helps to keep him honest because YOU will pick up on inconsistancies.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 04:10 PM
That is true Mike and thanks. I figured since she knew what a horrible person I was anyway that it did not matter. She told him that he would be back because I was not a nice person like he is and that he would need a nice person again. **rolling eyes** My ears should have been burnt off by now but then I guess a hooker is kinda like a bartender? Oh yes I forgot, she gave up hooking for him so they could be faithful to one another **my eyes are going to roll right out of my head before long**

Edit: I should probably drop the sarcasm
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 04:23 PM
SSS, we have a smiley for that! :RollieEyes:
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 05:53 PM
Well so you do!

Thanks! faint
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 06:28 PM
I feel the need to clarify a few things since so many are posting between my threads and my WH's.

I am not and never have been controlled by this man or anyone. I have and can stand toe to toe with the biggest bully and not back down, I learned that lesson very early in life. I can listen and I can compromise or back down if I see merit in that but I do not back down when I know something is right checked by a strong moral code that is not originally mine smile .

He posts here and I am glad he does. We are together almost all the time now that he no longer has 2 or 3 meetings a day :RollieEyes: Because of this we have done nothing but discuss this for the last almost 4 months because no matter how much he wants to just forget it I can not as you all well know. There is nothing here I have not said or would not say to his face. Nobody knows his BS better than I do and I have always called him on it. Trouble was he was quick to call me childish or other things rather than listen or change. Here you all call him out on the same things that I have been calling him out on for years and now he has to listen because he is caught between us. It is also helpful for both of us because you all bring up things we have not thought of. Mostly it helps me to bring up questions I did not know I needed to ask but by asking them I grow. I may not feel better but I grow in understanding of the situation. This is the purpose of this place isn't it?

He was correct when he stated our problems began when I would not "obey". This need of his did not come about until after we were married (about 4 hours after actually). I was stunned to say the least. I took each step one by one and when he could not be reasonable I stopped even trying. It was never good enough anyway so why bother with it smile . One by one I dropped things and began to fill my own life up with things I loved and then filled it with only the kids because who needs more than that? They were/are wonderful. They saved my soul from the soul eating H because they gave my love back 10 fold. I do not accept responsibility for WH's reprehensible behavior and his A's were his alone. I do admit that I did not create a great environment for us but then one can't really do that for long when they are doing it alone. If this is not compatible with the lessons here I will learn that and accept my part in this, I have no problem with that. I guess I want to say that I am not perfect but do not accept responsibility for having to be here dealing with his infidelity.

IF I need to have conversations that he should not see I will use the feature to privately talk with people if they are willing. For now I am content to have us both here, it feels much better to know you are calling him out when he needs it and will call me out if I need it and we both see it and understand it. It is a partnership even in this situation isn't it?

Yes, I probably look stupid to many for even trying but I have been with WH for 30 years total, married for almost 27 now. There have been some wonderful times and there is no one I have ever felt so comfortable with or so compatible with when things are good. It is just that those good times were far apart but kept me with him (always hopeful) and I want to see if I can have them back all the time now. If not then I will be gone, he knows that. I am not afraid to be on my own, actually I am not afraid of anything anymore.

So, I will listen if you all think this is bad but I may not change my mind stickout. And now I will close this overly verbose post. See, if nothing else WH and I can out talk each other!

Just call me, Still Stubborn After All These Years

Posted By: jayne241 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 06:42 PM
Quote
IF I need to have conversations that he should not see I will use the feature to privately talk with people if they are willing.

Just so you know before you actually need it and can't use it, the PM feature has been disabled here on the MB forums. Too tempting for members of the opposite sex in fragile states to get too closely involved, supporting each other and leading to more inappropriate things... That's why everything is kept in the open, and secrecy is discouraged.

You can take things to email if you like, which bypasses the PM feature, but it's just a little bit harder and we can see when folks are exchanging emails. Generally when we see two needy people of the opposite sex exchange emails, we try to persuade them to keep everything above-board and on-the-board. smile Support from people of the same gender is fine.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 06:44 PM
He did the timeline himself and it was helpful but boy was it painful. I thought I was going to die all over again having to listen to 6 years of his sex life, feelings of love and the years he was her husband in a way he never was mine. Seriously, he never husbanded me but he did her in a way far better than I would have ever even expected him to. It sucks so much that he could not/would not treat me that way, not even close. I was property, she was his life. He paid her well for it I suppose but that still makes little difference to me.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 06:46 PM
Wow, thanks. That makes perfect sense.

I am fine without doing this. I do not believe my being secretive would be any more productive than his secrecy over the years. It is a big destroyer IMO. I could see the use if we had been here earlier and had used the plans but we were beyond that (I think) by the time I found this wonderful place.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 06:57 PM

Ok. I'm going to withdraw, sounds like you guys are communicating one on one.

sorry if I was obnoxious to GM :-)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 07:06 PM
No NO NO!

You are/were not obnoxious! He needs this as do I. I fully expect to be called on my BS as well.

This was not directed at you but to all those who believe we should not be here together and also an explanation to those who do. Good grief! Your help has been immense and much appreciated by both of us. He really is trying but he does slip back into his thing. I already called him out this morning and he is going to post about it when he gets back since he does not think I am right. If I am not then I will learn to not react to it. I think it is a big LB so we will see. Do NOT back off, you are helping us. Please.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/19/09 08:03 PM
""I think it is a big LB..."

No discussion necessary, then.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/20/09 01:23 AM
She, OW, just called. My WH keeps saying that she is a survivor and has moved on. Good grief, she survived on him! I knew we would hear from her. He did not pick up, we both stood there looking like deer in the headlights at each other. It turned out to be a crappy day with some more honesty that hurt hurt hurt! Bad day for a call, not that there are good days. She did not leave a message. My guess is she is not quite drunk enough. Most of her messages are hard to understand because she is always so loaded. If we don't hear from her tonight I will be surprised but she will call even if it is later. Tomorrow morning first thing I will check the phone records to be certain he did not call her back...he is on his way to a meeting...GPS is on the car and I have a new phone tracker that pin points his whereabouts all the time. His idea, so I think I am safe. If he sees her again he is gone and he knows it.

Her number had been blocked before as was her friends number. Then she started using a pay phone. We unblocked so we could prove harassment.

Just this morning WH asked if he had to write a NC letter since we had told her before, several times, to leave us alone and we were working on repairing our marriage. I said yes, it needed to be formal and on regular mail service. He will, he did not want to though. He will be hard pressed not to apologize to her because he does not want to seem like a "bad, mean guy". Made me laugh. Sure he doesn't, except to me. Well now he HAS to by even his own standards. He will post it, I will have input before it goes out.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/20/09 03:14 PM

Since you are buying Radio Shack stock like crazy, get an inline recorder so next time you can pick up and have her ranting conversations recorded for harrassment purposes.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/20/09 04:35 PM
Ha ha, I can think of a few things that I should have bought stock in since this began for me last October. Tissues for one, Excedrine, Radio Shack, ******* no comment I was going to be sarcastic again.

We have a few messages that she has left that go on and on over several message cycles. They are so scary in that she is wasted and hard to understand but they start so sweet and nice then they get abusive about me then about him then she gives us advice on how to love each other and how sorry she is that we were so awful to each other, shame on us....it goes on and on and is simply nuts and drunk and infuriating. She also wants me to know how to take care of him. They make my head explode.

I went to the Verizon site to document her call but for some reason calls from her do not show up on my husbands records anymore! They used to to the tune of up to 25 calls per day but now they do not show up. They show on his phone but are simply not on the record that Verizon charges from??? Something smells here so I have a little work to do. I am so tired of this.

6 years and all the revelations I have had from him and I just feel like throwing in the towel. All those women before that were certainly EA's, he says not PA's and he knows I will polygraph check that, followed by this. Is this really worth it? I guess I will find out and get some start after our first phone counseling Thursday morning with Dr. Harley.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 12:29 AM
SSS,

I am tst's wife. I just wanted to tell you that I am keeping up with your story.

I know that you are whirling with all these revelations. You are doing great, even though it doesn't feel that way. If GM doesn't hold back information about the affair and any other deceitful or hurtful behavior, this horrible time of purging will put you in a place to begin to recover.

Keep the bar high. Accept nothing less than a completely remorseful husband who is willing to do whatever YOU NEED to heal your heart.

So far, I see a willingness from your WS that isn't typical of a WS when they first show up here. Even though he decorates his babble in pretty words, he HAS taken some initial recovery steps and expresses a willingness to do some very heavy lifting in recovery.

If he sticks around and follows through with the MB program/counseling/weekend and the poly and post-nup, recovery can happen.

But, of course, that is only if you decide you really want to recover.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 12:58 AM
Thank you.

I have been thrown right back to D Day several times now and I am getting really tired of that pit in your stomach feeling you get when you find out. I am beginning to feel like he just pushed me out of an airplane and I am simply falling and falling forever. Oh yes, this is a pity me day for sure, not very attractive.

I know it will cycle up and down but I still find myself hoping that it is all a bad dream. My goodness, I am 55 years old and that is still what I am looking for. I sure could have gone my whole life without having to deal with this. It really sucks.

And I speak to the choir!

Still, you all let me vent and I sit here and cry as I type because I never in a million years thought he would do something like this to me. 6 years of it. Never. How can anyone look at your S, even if you have decided you do not love them and apparently he decided that a looong time ago and forgot to tell me, look them in the eye and say all the reassuring things and walk right out the door to another, secret life where you do have love with someone else. To do that daily for 6 years. I could not even imagine doing that once. Every day for 6 years. How can someone ever get over this and trust or feel safe with that person? Can this program really help with this? I suppose the 6 years really does not mean much, it probably hurts just as badly if it was once. I really do not know if I can do this.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 01:38 AM
Hi SSS,

Realize that many people here feel your pain and have gone through as bad or worse. Some are even raising other children from an affair.

My own WW involved my kids -- they knew not to tell me when OM was around -- she had sex in my house.....plenty to make me vomit as well...if you read my thread you can see I'm still writhing through the pain and turmoil...I'm no expert.

You may decide it isn't worth it, enough is enough. Or you may decide the years together and kids, and everything else make it worth a try.

I will say this and this may surpise you. On the FACE of it, you have as repentant a WS as I have ever seen here. I wish my WW had expressed as much remorse right after d-day.

Of course, that is what made me suspicious of GM (gallows laugh)

Anyway, be strong, demand EVERY step that is being recommended here and remember -- you can ALWAYS walk away. That's easy. It is the hanging in there and seeing what love may be possible that shows some character (I think...I hope..)

Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 01:59 AM
Quote
Anyway, be strong, demand EVERY step that is being recommended here and remember -- you can ALWAYS walk away. That's easy. It is the hanging in there and seeing what love may be possible that shows some character (I think...I hope..)
Amen!

Take it one day at a time, sss. Take time out for yourself. Read some good fiction or watch a good movie. Take walks, get your nails done. Be good to yourself. hurray
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 02:27 AM
Thank you Mike, I needed that. Of course no one has ever been hurt as badly as I have...the nature of my little pity party weekend. Thank you for reminding me that I am not alone, I know that but sometimes I just need to be smacked up side the head with the real world. There are many millions who would be thrilled with only my problems. I do feel better now.

I did read about what happened to you but that was before I "knew" you so I need to go re read it. My kids were thankfully gone but my house, old and new, and everything I do that I love was used for their purposes. I can only imagine how you feel knowing your kids were used like that. I send thoughtful, strong and good vibes your way.

I should have listened to you when you told me I might not want to ask about the sex. Boy oh boy should I have listened to you. I guess when they start with this honesty thing it all just comes flying out faster than you can say, PLEASE STOP!

Thank you. I hope he really is repentant. I just can't trust myself to judge that anymore and I certainly do not trust him yet, if I ever will.

What is it about this kind of experience that makes one spill their guts and private stories like this? Whatever it is I am glad it is there. I would probably have blown an artery by now if not for this place and the people here.

(I think...I hope..) Oh yes, that is the mantra. Steady and strong. One foot in front of the other. Thank you so very much.



Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 02:31 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I should have listened to you when you told me I might not want to ask about the sex. Boy oh boy should I have listened to you.


Well....that is a debated topic here and your mileage may vary.

I had to know about the sexual details. Not knowing was worse than my imagination.

Of course, I'm pretty perverted :-)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 02:33 AM
Thank you Faithful Follower.

Every day I take my 2 little goats out to walk around out of their pen and pretend I am Julie Andrews singing Lonely Goatherd. I go out in the pastures because I am most assuredly not Julie Andrews but the goats do not care. This has been the one really quiet time that has done me the most good.

You are kind and made me smile tonight when smiles are a bit difficult. (((hugs)))
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 02:50 AM
Let me put it this way, I also had to know a bit because my mind goes all kinds of places, especially since this woman was a working gal. Ya never know.

It probably could have been less painful but you know how wordy WH is.... :RollieEyes:
Posted By: MicheleG Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 03:25 AM
SSS

Can you change your home phone number, his cell, your cell...every number that she could possibly call?

And while you are in the process of doing this, switch cell phones with him. That way you will know if he's been getting calls on a regular basis.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
It probably could have been less painful but you know how wordy WH is.... :RollieEyes:

wordy and dramatic... TEEF
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:03 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Let me put it this way, I also had to know a bit because my mind goes all kinds of places, especially since this woman was a working gal. Ya never know.

It probably could have been less painful but you know how wordy WH is.... :RollieEyes:


Hey, she is an actual ho and you aren't. That is a mental crutch none of us have. Your WH can't look at her as being on some pedestal, as my WW does with her Wonderful OM....

BTW, while we are on the topic on honesty, NO WAY IN THE FREAKING WORLD, that your WH was wh0ring in 1984 and never again until this OW. Put this on your polygraph list. I'll wager a testicle.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 05:48 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
How do you know when the lying has stopped? When can you begin to relax and work on things?

Unfortunately I will not sugarcoat this for you.

He is a liar. He is a manipulator.

If he behaves himself without fail for the next six years - then you can BEGIN to relax.

What you will eventually need to do is this:

define your bottom line - your "last straw" -

What is your limit to his abuse?

Once you decide what/where that "last straw" is - do not move it !

Keep a promise to yourself - "If he ever does (your last straw) then I will know it is time to end this torture."

You don't need to know what your last straw is right now - give yourself 3-6 months to think it over.

Warning : You have not reached your anger/resentment peak - it's coming -

Please - take very good care of yourself
pamper yourself
develop friendships and hobbies
travel
read

make your world broader than your husband - he is a liar and a manipulator and you cannot pretend he is not
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 05:57 AM
Don't worry about your testicle, you are safe. Tonight I asked about if they had had a child together. Answer no but there was a scare. Did that make him use a condom? No because she said she could not get pregnant. He did not know why, in 6 years she did not tell him why she could not get pregnant. That pretty much made me angry since I know and probably anyone else knows that she would have stayed pregnant until he had to tell me then she would have "lost" it after I had kicked him out.

So, I was angry. I KNEW there was more. Hell there is always more with this guy. Well turns out you are exactly right Mike. There were Escorts for years and years, like all the time we were married. At least 20 times he can remember.

OK, the man would not even talk to me almost all the time we were together so he was pissed that I finally shut him down. If I don't even know a person, even if he is my husband, I am not going to be sleeping with him. He was cruel and mean and isolated me. We went to therapy and he would not listen. So HE had to have an outlet. I kept plugging away at trying to make things better by myself and missing all those wonderful intimate things. Now I find out he was going out all the time with escorts?

I just threw his [censored] out. I am angrier than I have ever been in my life. I don't know where he is going. I really do not care. All he could say is he was hoping for a new future with me after our appointments with Dr. Harley and the MB weekend. My God. My God.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:41 AM
Sugar coating never helps. I appreciate your honesty. I had fears that this was never going to work for me and now after what I learned tonight...

I tried so hard all these years and this is how it is?
Posted By: johnstwin Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:43 AM
It's not your fault. Your WH has lived a double life for a long time. He may be a sex addict. Remember what Pep said. He is a liar and a manipulator. His comments about the MB week-end etc. are proof of that.

Take care of yourself. Keep posting. There's lots of support here.

Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 02:35 PM
I don't blame you for being angry. I'd be throwing up, myself. There is only so much a person can take before they reach their breaking point.

On the bright side, he is being totally honest and there are many here who pray for that every day. On the other hand, this isn't an "oops" that you guys need to work through. It's a whole new way of living that he needs to learn, and he's an old dog.

Don't try to decide today if you will work things out or call it quits. They say you should always wait at least six months after a major emotional trauma before making any big decisions. So take your time. Focus on yourself today. Go visit a friend, or hang out at your favorite art gallery or book store. Just take care of you and indulge in some luxurious creature comforts. Maybe a bubble bath with your favorite music, whatever you think will soothe you.

GM is trying, that's for sure. Whether or not he can sustain his changes remains to be seen, and it will take years to know for sure. Remember that you get to decide whether or not you want him in your life. You just don't have to decide today.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 02:59 PM
Thanks johnstwin.

What did he say about the MB weekend? I guess I should go look.

I really am at a loss here. On the one hand I pulled it out of him because I had to know it all before I would agree to any real work on this, I had to have all the lies put to rest. Since I did that I have to feel like he is still trying. It can't be easy to tell someone that you have cheated on them over and over every single year that you have been married. On the other hand, we spent thousands of dollars on therapy at a major institute (so you know this was not just an IRL councilor) just to get things going well and he cheated through them all and never ever made an attempt to change his behavior after they all told him that he had to work on this, I could not shoulder the weight of the entire thing myself and make it change.

I am glad you are all here even though I wish none of us was going through this.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 03:10 PM
turtlehead you have no idea how you just soothed my soul enough to get through this day. I was trying to decide my entire future while mourning my past all at once and I was driving myself crazy. I feel much calmer now although it is certainly letting the pain come through. The calmness is welcome. I do have time.

I am not sure I would say he is trying. He is trying to save his butt by saving little bits thinking that will make it better if I don't find out. I really has nothing to do with me, he is trying to save himself. Can't say that I blame him for that. If I had a story like that I would never want to tell it.

I am sorry to be so needy here. I feel like a baby and I am feeling sorry for myself, very sorry. I will get better and I will get through it and I will straighten up at some point and act like a "big girl". I am WOMAN!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 03:17 PM
Have you read People Of The Lie , by M. Scott Peck?
If you have not read it - get it from your library or bookseller.

I am going to veer from what other MB vets are telling you.

I think that the MB weekend is not going to help much.

Learning about marriage skills will not help your husband - his general knowledge is already vast. He's smart. He's a quick study. He's chosen a lifestyle. His lifestyle is "A person of the lie".

Years ago we tried to help another physician/wife marriage. They went to a MB weekend. The husband went along with everything the wife asked him to do. He cried crocodile tears by the bucket. Heck, they EVEN went ON the Dr Phil show !!!!!!!!!!!!
Ed & Kandi on Dr PHIL



His lifestyle never changed.
They divorced.
He married the OW (they already had a baby together while he was still married).
He was a major liar/manipulator who was most comfortable when he was master of 2 (or more) women.

I fear for you. I really do.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I am not sure I would say he is trying. He is trying to save his butt by saving little bits thinking that will make it better if I don't find out. I really has nothing to do with me, he is trying to save himself

I agree with you completely. He's currently into saving the marriage to make himself look/feel better. I think it's still about his ego. He says all the right things but I'm concerned that he's parroting, not really feeling it. He's picked it all up too quickly and he's too eager. He's not struggling.

A person who is taking a good hard look in the mirror and not liking what they see struggles a lot. They're remorseful, and they accept the blame - which GM says he's doing - but they do it in little bits and pieces. Every step forward requires a lot of effort. GM is doing it in huge leaps.

I fear I'm being inarticulate. How can I say this?

Personal growth is usually slow and painful. People usually are defensive and possessive of their flaws, and resist changing. I find it hard to believe that someone with such a history of deceit and manipulation can make such strides as GM seems to be making.

On the other hand, he's being honest. He never was before. He's agreed to the polygraph and many more actions. If he were completely insincere, he'd not agree to those. He'd have excuses. He appears to be walking the walk in addition to talking the talk. *Appears* to be.

Take care of yourself, watch him with open eyes, and let him PROVE himself to you. Make him EARN his way into the marriage. Make him EARN your trust. I wouldn't slam the door on him yet, but I would keep a watchful eye.

Pep's post is good and relevant. In that sitch, the WH kept wavering and going back and forth between his wife and OW. He'd try to commit but then fail, over and over and over. It will be very telling whether GM sticks to NC with OW, or if he finds some new OW.

You're obviously quite bright and I believe you know all of this already. Sometimes it helps just to hear it echoed back.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 03:54 PM
SSS,

I would not counsel kicking him out over this revelation or any other. He is being honest, maybe for the first time in decades.

You should not be conditioning him ala Pavlov that honesty begets disaster.

And, of course, throwing him out gives him one tempting option, right?

Anyway, ask the guy who did all all world freak out after
d-day....better to get it out now and I appreciate the honesty. Your WS is putting his heart at your feet and trying for a new beginning.

Look, you can always walk away later. I would (I am) giving this a chance to see where it goes.

PS: if you want to keep cauterizing the wound, I'll also bet he has a rollicking porn addiction to go along with the escort jones.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
I would not counsel kicking him out over this revelation or any other. He is being honest, maybe for the first time in decades.

You should not be conditioning him ala Pavlov that honesty begets disaster.

It bears repeating.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
There were Escorts for years and years, like all the time we were married. At least 20 times he can remember.

I'm not joining the "at least he's being honest" group.
I'm standing with the "tip of the iceberg" group.

There's more here.
If you ever do get him to sit for a polygraph - ask him every possible question under the sun, not just questions about sex or adultery with women:

drugs
alcohol
porn
bondage
domination
underage
men
pregnancy
money
gambling
theft
embezzlement

When you are dealing with A PERSON OF THE LIE, the lies are rarely confined to one aspect of their life - not just sex and adultery - but other nefarious acts as well.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:20 PM
This brings to mind The Parable of the Snake:

Once upon a time there was a serpent who was badly injured in a fight with another animal. It managed to slither away to safety but would have surely died if a benevolent man had not seen it suffering by the side of the road. The goodly man carefully wrapped the snake up and took it to his house, where he bestowed the kindest and gentlest care on the snake until it was healed and could return to the wild. Just as the man was releasing the serpent back into the grass, the ungrateful snake turned and bit him on the hand.



"What did you do that for?" cried the man, who knew that the bite of this particular snake was usually fatal. "Didn't I take care of you when no one else would?"



The snake shrugged (no small feat for a snake!) and replied to the benevolent--and now doomed-- man, "What did you expect? You knew I was a snake when you picked me up."

Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:36 PM
"I love my wife" ... what does this mean?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LOVE has three key components:

Passion underlies physical desire, sexual behavior, and arousal. This is the physical side.

Intimacy is the emotional aspect: closeness, connectedness, and warmth of friendship.

Commitment is the decision-making part "CHOICE" of love; are couples willing to work it out?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Which of these three love components is your Person of the Lie capable of?

Which of these three love components has been missing from your marriage? For how long?

Which of these three love components has ALWAYS been absent from your marriage?


Posted By: jayne241 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:45 PM
Pep: there's a song that tells that story as well. I'm a goof but I love that song (I've mentioned it a few times). I also love the symbolism.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
He will be hard pressed not to apologize to her because he does not want to seem like a "bad, mean guy".

Keep this in mind when you are reading M. Scott Peck's book.
The most important thing to The People Of The Lie is:


the appearance of virtue

The least important thing to The People Of The Lie is:


honest self examination/moral inventory

Your WH called OW a dirtbag. Why?

To appear virtuous to the MB forum members

Beware the snake!



Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by jayne241
Pep: there's a song that tells that story as well. I'm a goof but I love that song (I've mentioned it a few times). I also love the symbolism.

What's the title/artist?
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
I'm not joining the "at least he's being honest" group.
I'm standing with the "tip of the iceberg" group.

Can I be on the fence?
I don't like either side right now.
Maybe "Guardedly hopeful and skeptical"
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by turtlehead
Can I be on the fence?
I don't like either side right now.
Maybe "Guardedly hopeful and skeptical"

LOL smile

You're so cute!

Have you read Dr Peck's book?
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Have you read Dr Peck's book?
No but it sounds VERY intriguing and like a real match for GM, from what has been portrayed on these boards.

Can a lying person, like the one discussed in the book, change?
Is it a FOO issue?
A disorder?
A coping mechanism from childhood?
Can a therapist skilled in this behavior see through it?

I'm off to Google, it does sound uber-relevant.


SSS, when you guys were in therapy before, did your WH's lying habits come up as a topic of discussion? If so, what was said and how did that go?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 05:51 PM
The book is about evil.
Spiritual evil.
Sounds like a book most of us avoid reading! wink

Added:

"Evil is the abuse of power imposed to preserve one person's ego at the expense of another."
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:19 PM
amazon.com has, not surprisingly, a ton of reviews on this book.

"Ever been relentlessly lied to - or about - by someone? Ever been stunned to realize that someone in your life somehow behaves as though he's the center of the universe and everything and everyone else is somehow LESS? Ever come face to face with virulent narcissism? This book will help you understand. But beware: such knowledge comes at a cost. Gone forever will be any vestage of naivetƩ."
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by turtlehead
amazon.com has, not surprisingly, a ton of reviews on this book.

"Ever been relentlessly lied to - or about - by someone? Ever been stunned to realize that someone in your life somehow behaves as though he's the center of the universe and everything and everyone else is somehow LESS? Ever come face to face with virulent narcissism? This book will help you understand. But beware: such knowledge comes at a cost. Gone forever will be any vestage of naivetƩ."

yup!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:41 PM
OK, I will try to answer most of this in this one post. I was doing chores. After this I am going to bed with my head under the covers for a while.

First off...he is a mess. I thought I was going to have to take him into a facility this morning. Granted, he should be a mess but this is WH and I have seen this before. He does not handle situations he can't control very well, that is my job. He is being very nice and kind. He will be sleeping in another bedroom because I need to sleep and the overwhelming urge to smack him will prevent that. semi joke

We have our first phone consultation tomorrow morning. I think this is going to be very interesting.

I did ask again about many other things with the threat (one I will carry out) of the polygraph. He did have a drug problem long ago (never told the therapist). I did find some porn. Not a lot but I know what he is mainly interested in now, well I did before but this cinched it. He showed it to me himself. No money or gambling problems. All the hookers were old enough to not be children. No men. Etc....I asked a bunch. Nothing. His cues for lying are still there except it does not seem as strong as it was but I am still getting, "As far as I can remember that is all". The big "Oh yes, one more thing" is coming I am certain of it.

Because he is actually trying to be honest for once in his long, lying life I have let him come home. We will have our phone conference in the morning and I will go from there.

OOps! Here it comes. Hookers at least once a month. FOR 26 years, well 20 years until he made one his girlfriend. Oh God I hurt. There is more he us just "suppressing it". I am outta here for a while. I do not think I can do this.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:45 PM
You don't have to do this, sss. After 26 years of betrayal no on here would say you should. It is your choice and your life. Take your time. There is no rush to the finish line. (((SSS)))
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:50 PM
Why does this have to hurt so much even after all this? He is sitting here sobbing and I really don't care. He is falling apart in front of me and I am just sitting here, dumbfounded.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Why does this have to hurt so much even after all this? He is sitting here sobbing and I really don't care. He is falling apart in front of me and I am just sitting here, dumbfounded.

It's still ALL ABOUT HIM AND HIS EGO.

You see this, don't you?

There is no room for your broken heart.

This is masterful manipulation.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:54 PM
PS -

He needs to see a psychiatrist ASAP - not marriage coaching for heaven's sake!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 06:59 PM
Yes, I do know it.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 07:42 PM

SSS....

I'm not going to throw gas on your fire. You have to process all this.

Bottom line is, these revelations should stop hurting, because, WTH, it is bad as it gets, right? :-) Unless he was doing donkey shows in church, I think it has bottomed out.

I will say that you should both be on anti-deps.

And, as GM's chief instigator, I will say that I am impressed with his repentance as a WH. In being on this site since 1999, I really can't remember someone that seems to have been stripped down to bare metal so fast (maybe with the community's help here).

I think you need to keep your foot on his throat through all this NC steps, polygraph, post nup, IC, MC, etc.

But maybe once you process this you will look back on it as a mental illness of a life partner you love.

Hey, that is what I'm selling myself on ;-)
Posted By: Stellakat Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/21/09 11:22 PM
uhhhh, HE IS SICK.

I do not understand what would motivate him to want to try for a cheatless marriage at this point.

Why would a man like that ever want to be married at all?

Why would you want to continue a marriage with a man like that?

These things are things I do not understand. His character is corrupted to put it nicely.

No one could stand being married to a man like that unless you BOTH had a totally "open relationship" and he wore protection each time he was with a prostitute or another woman. You would have to be very accepting.


Posted By: Looking4 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I insisted that my WH be tested for STD's. He tested neg thankfully to everything they tested him for and that was almost everything except for one and I got it from him. Thankfully it took no more than 3 weeks of nasty meds that made me throw up every day but it did the trick and that is over.
In light of recent revelations of his many escorts, please do not just rely on your WH getting tested. Please, SSS, get yourself tested for every STD known to man. WH is a PROVEN liar and for all you know, he may have been with someone recently other than the latest OW. You can be a carrier of some STDs that otherwise don't make their presence known for a couple of years. Some can take up to 6 months before they can even be detected by testing. Please take care of what you can and get yourself tested -- now and then 6 months from when you and WH last had sex.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by Stellakat
No one could stand being married to a man like that unless you BOTH had a totally "open relationship" and he wore protection each time he was with a prostitute or another woman. You would have to be very accepting.


Stella, you have been here enough to know that everybody's tolerance is different, and every relationship and situation is different.

I never would have thought i'd be trying given the horror of my situation, but I'm here on Marriage BUILDERS to get advice on trying, not to just divorce. Everyone IRL is telling me that...
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by Looking4
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I insisted that my WH be tested for STD's. He tested neg thankfully to everything they tested him for and that was almost everything except for one and I got it from him. Thankfully it took no more than 3 weeks of nasty meds that made me throw up every day but it did the trick and that is over.
In light of recent revelations of his many escorts, please do not just rely on your WH getting tested. Please, SSS, get yourself tested for every STD known to man. WH is a PROVEN liar and for all you know, he may have been with someone recently other than the latest OW. You can be a carrier of some STDs that otherwise don't make their presence known for a couple of years. Some can take up to 6 months before they can even be detected by testing. Please take care of what you can and get yourself tested -- now and then 6 months from when you and WH last had sex.

Yeah, good advice. WW was tested before she got back in my bed, and her family knew it was a condition of coming home. And it was nice and humiliating for her.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 12:23 AM
Hi. I am just going to piggyback on to your post Mike (thank you by the way for everything) since I have no time.

I want to thank everyone, I will come back and read everything later.

I just got back from admitting WH into a locked Psych ward. He had a total melt down this afternoon and it was terrifying even for this old ICU nurse. Severe Acute Depression, Anxiety are the two knowns here but he is being looked at for Personality Disorder.

I am beat and upset to say the least. I appreciate each and every one of your posts to me. I will not make any kind of decision until I know about these things and things are settled a bit so I can catch my breath. This has all happened so rapidly that my mind can't really handle it all.

I will be taking the phone appointment with Dr. Harley tomorrow morning. I am hoping he can help guide me to a better way of dealing with all this information.

I will be tested again for STD's. Good suggestion.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 12:30 AM
I am so sorry, SSS. frown
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 01:05 AM
I don't know what to say, other than you and GM are both on my mind. I'm glad he's getting treatment. Do you have real people you can lean on? Please remember to take care of you, too.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 01:29 AM
Wow.

Jeez, SOS, I hope he is getting the care he needs, but please take care of yourself. Are your children around? Have you talked to a doc about your own anxiety/depression?

You are both in my prayers.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 02:16 AM
sss, you are both in my prayers.
Posted By: jayne241 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 04:03 AM
{{{{{ sosad }}}}}

I am so sorry. You are both in my prayers. I'm glad he's getting treatment and you're calling the Harleys.

*hugs*
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 02:03 PM
Thanks MelodyLane.

I will post how things go. I am happy my phone council starts this morning.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 02:24 PM
Thank you Turtlehead.

I am glad he is there. I think there may be some interesting information to come from all of this. I don't know if it will repair my heart any but at least I can understand better why this all happened. The hooker revelations blew my mind, almost more than the rest. From the beginning of our marriage? Whoa, this will be hard.

We have a house guest for several months. He is a good friend of mine and a friend now of WH's as well. He has been helpful, we have been close for a long time. Other than that most of my friends are not close and it is not possible to get around them much. I used to have so many friends but the isolation has really pushed many of them away and the others are all dead now. Really no one I am close enough to anymore to talk to much. I will be OK. I have learned to be alone and be OK with that.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 02:37 PM
Thank you Mike.

It was something to see this man in this state and then to see him where he is right now. You can imagine, the big shot Dr. in a sparse environment with a schedule of stuff he is not interested in and then they took his shoelaces. It was pitiful, he looked pitiful but resigned. The one funny moment was when they told him he would be going to a very popular craft session every day. This is not the kind of guy to cut paper or paint ceramics but I saw the look of horror on his face and just leaned over and asked him to make me an ashtray. Cracked him up at least for a moment.

I am now on two anti D's and do have something for anxiety that I don't use unless I feel myself slipping into that big cycle of anger/crying and freaking out in general. It comes in handy then so I save it for that. He will be put on some stuff I assume.

My boys are about 65 miles away and are both in a University Conservatory and working musicians. They will not be able to come home. They know all about the 6 year A but not about the rest of it. WH was pleading with me not to tell anyone about this. He knows it is seedy and disgusting not to mention a huge addition to the betrayal with the long term OW. I think I need to tell them where he is and for now just mention that there was more to the story. It might be best for him to have to tell them himself. I can wait to find that out.

Thank you for getting his thread locked. I hate to say this but I think all that calling out was the thing that really made him face up. I was sitting here ready to pump my fist each time that someone else would tell him the stuff I had been telling him for years. I think he was so worried and beat down before all of that that it worked. Thanks.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 02:50 PM
Thank you FF.

I think I felt all these prayers last night. It has been a long time since I really slept and last night I did.

The journey is now in the end stage, it just remains to be seen whether it will be a new beginning together or apart. Still a long way to go but the ending stage is here.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 02:53 PM
Thank you Jayne241.

I am ready now, I think, to figure out the future. It is going to suck no matter how it goes but at least I will feel like we are moving forward. No wonder it never got better no matter what I did. He did not need to work on our marriage.

Today should be interesting.
Posted By: MicheleG Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 03:21 PM
((((SSS))))

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 03:31 PM

SSS,

You don't necessarily need someone to BE there....are you close to your boys? Get them on the phone? Can you get support from them without it going into GM bashing?


I'm in month five and yesterday I was ready to file for divorce, hug her forever, throw her out. Instead we had a somewhat conflictual (word?) debate about finances, made up, made love, and have our first counseling session this PM.

Point being, it is a true rollercoaster. People told me that at D-day, and I didn't believe it. Looking back it is the truest words ever spoken. I was in 4 hour cycles of "kiss or kill" as I was calling it.

Take all the measures spoken about here, but don't make any "decisions" for at least 6 months.

PS: GM had mentioned last week being concerned about the polygraph due to his "emotional state"...expect to hear that again now, iIguess...

PPS: don't sleep with the houseguest lol.....sorry... :-)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 03:35 PM
HA HA!

I am waiting for my call back so I just had to come in just to say,

my house guest is gay and very married to his husband. No worries there although he said he would be glad to hire someone for me (in jest of course). smile
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
HA HA!

I am waiting for my call back so I just had to come in just to say,

Call back from GM? Hospital?

Quote
my house guest is gay and very married to his husband. No worries there although he said he would be glad to hire someone for me (in jest of course). smile


send pic. I'm thinking of changing teams.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 04:54 PM
We are both very close to our sons. I can talk to them without GM bashing so I will.

WH said the same thing to me and the statement, "That is all I can remember, if there is more I must be blocking it out." I did not buy either one of those things. Funny, I wonder how he would explain the forgetting all those hookers? It was the knowledge that I was going to really do the polygraph that caused him to puke out all the last of it (I hope it is, I think it is). I prepped him with OC questions and got an answer about a scare he and the OW had. He had no choice, he saw my anger and sadness and my determination to drag every last scrap out of him.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 05:04 PM
My call back was from Dr. Harley. It was wonderful. I have some direction now, a goal to work toward with full knowledge that that awful rollercoaster will still be there. It was exactly what I needed at this point and I can get through another day now with at least a better idea of where I am headed. Don't know if we will make that but we can try.

Is your appointment you mentioned with Dr. Harley?

I did talk to GM briefly. He is OK, not happy but knows he needs to be there and is hopeful. All of this is said through tears. He can't seem to stop the tears. I guess I just have to figure out if that is master manipulation or real. Considering the environment he has put himself in I think they might be real but will wait to see how the rest of this goes.

I have only one photo of my friend but I don't think it would be appreciated if I posted it. He is standing in my kitchen with an apron on giving me the finger. How could he ever do such a thing? I think I might have said something. Anyway, I caught him with my camera and for a while put it as my screen saver just to tool him around. That was fun.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 05:06 PM
Well, if it were me I think I'd let him get off the canvas and out of the psych ward, take a pause, and prepare the next series of effective truth getting.

Nobody has mentioned it, but a forensic accountant for that trust fund and his other spending would be good.

I'm guessing that this episode, and the resultant drugs he will undoubtedly be on, might cause him to claim renewed memory loss and be reluctant to take the polygraph due to emotional instability.

I'm not even saying that may not be valid, I'm just predicting it.

PS: I think, compassion-wise, it is hard for BS to realize the shame and sgony some waywards go through when they honestly confess. My poor WW's ashamed, pained face is frozen in my memory.....no matter how angry I am with her, it still brings tears to my eyes how humiliated she was to admit her behavior.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
My call back was from Dr. Harley. It was wonderful. I have some direction now, a goal to work toward with full knowledge that that awful rollercoaster will still be there. It was exactly what I needed at this point and I can get through another day now with at least a better idea of where I am headed. Don't know if we will make that but we can try.

Steve is great.

Quote
Is your appointment you mentioned with Dr. Harley?

Well, we counseled with Steve in 2000, then with Jennifer in August, 2008.

We both got a lot out of it, but it was a struggle for my W, for a number of reasons that are irrelevant to recommending him to anyone else. And I do highly recommend him. In a nutshell, I think I came on too hard and was the "leader" in "educating" her about MB, and she wasn't interested in me dominating the process, quite the opposite, in fact. I think that is one of the reasons the Harleys really try to get both parties on the phone early, so they both feel they own the process.

She wants face to face counseling, so we are trying that tonight with a woman who is highly recommended.

Quote
I did talk to GM briefly. He is OK, not happy but knows he needs to be there and is hopeful. All of this is said through tears. He can't seem to stop the tears. I guess I just have to figure out if that is master manipulation or real. Considering the environment he has put himself in I think they might be real but will wait to see how the rest of this goes.

Well, I'm counseling some mercy here. I'd hate for him to do anything rash. For a little while here maybe try to consider it like he had a brain concussion. After he cools down you can go back to the process here. For a proud man, this is really a bottoming.

Quote
I have only one photo of my friend but I don't think it would be appreciated if I posted it. He is standing in my kitchen with an apron on giving me the finger. How could he ever do such a thing? I think I might have said something. Anyway, I caught him with my camera and for a while put it as my screen saver just to tool him around. That was fun.

That was just a joke, nevermind :-)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 05:28 PM
I know it was a joke! I was trying to write something funny because darn it, this site and these situations are so hard that sometimes a chuckle is needed just to get through. It was not funny though, you had to be there. It was a failed funny because it is almost impossible to tell if someone is serious or not.

Good luck tonight. I understand about the teaching, GM always does that and it makes me pull away when he does. I hope your appointment gives you some relief.

Oh yes, I will be treating him nicely and giving him a good, hopeful feeling. I could not let my worst enemy suffer like that. He has to do it but he does not need to be tortured while he does.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 05:57 PM
sadsosad, you are a remarkable woman. Oh and your stab at humor made me grin. Humor is a great release in these situations. Mostly I am following along here because Mike earns my respect with each post to you. Kudos for counseling with SH. Whether your M makes it or not, YOU will have personal growth from the sessions.
Posted By: jayne241 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 06:38 PM
Quote
send pic. I'm thinking of changing teams.

rotflmao

What happened to worrying about your family and friends questioning your masculinity? wink laugh
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by jayne241
What happened to worrying about your family and friends questioning your masculinity? wink laugh


What about it? Bunch of butch breeders...
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 08:11 PM
Wow, didn't read your thread for a couple of days, and what a lot of news!

I suggest you take this time to rest up and walk and sing with the goats. This has been extremely stressful for you.

Glad hubby is in a safe place, but don't expect any miracles. He will need to work on long term recovery.
Posted By: Chrysalis Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 08:22 PM
sss,

I have followed a little bit of your story. So sorry about the hospitalization, but this may be exactly what your H needs to face himself. And as Pepperband pointed out, facing himself is probably the hardest thing he can imagine.

My H is a "hotshot Dr." too. He put me through 2 years of false recoveries and I let it go on far too long. I am happy to say he has made remarkable changes. But I still frequently remind myself that there is no more room for false recoveries; that if the cheating/lying behavior returns I will need to leave. I don't "trust" yet..... he proved himself to not be worthy of trust. But I do choose to love, and to receive the love and good behavior he offers in return. I don't trust...I verify.

Their careers are not marriage-friendly in any way. The hours are too long, they are praised for neglecting their families, there are too many women out their ready to feed their egos, and no one except their spouses to face reality with. How much fun can we be under those circumstances?

I wish you well in all of this.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by believer
I suggest you take this time to rest up and walk and sing with the goats.


??

Is that a gay thing?
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 08:33 PM
LOL, Mike......

Yes, here in California, there are gays all over the rolling hills, walking and singing with goats.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by believer
LOL, Mike......

Yes, here in California, there are gays all over the rolling hills, walking and singing with goats.
rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:00 PM
SSS
I like many others have been following your thread. I can only imagine how heartbreaking all of this is, and still I know I can't come close.

I know the bizarre and sometimes twisted sense of humour you must have, this coming from another ICU nurse...you just can't work that area without relief. Your experiences there will help to serve you now. Take care of yourself. hug

Yours in good humour, Vittoria.


Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:16 PM

Praying for you and GM again today.

(((((((((SSS))))))))))




Mike_C2, I'm glad you stayed on both their threads. Even though you are a PITA, you've shown a compassionate side that has greatly helped sss and even GM. smile
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:17 PM
Thank you Faithful Follower, that means a lot to me coming from you.

I think it was you that said, "this place is a godsend.". Whoever it was was correct. I was rapidly losing my mind the 3 months before I found this place and if all these other revelations had come before I started here I would have.

Personal growth is always a good thing. I hope my M makes it although right at this moment I have doubts, big ones. Dr. Harley made me feel that it was possible. WH has a lot of work to do, lots of hard changing. If it is possible and he does it I will be there. I have work to do as well.

Yes, Mike has been wonderful. His support and suggestions have been immeasurably helpful for both of us although it was really hard for WH. It was needed and made him open his eyes a little more and look inward where he had not before.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:20 PM
I just came in from a goat walk. I always feel better, they are so funny to hang around with.

Thank you. There is indeed a lot of work ahead of us. I hope he can do it and be successful. He is safe, I just spoke with him again. He did not cry this time, said the groups have been good and has had 2 sessions. One meeting with a Psychiatrist the other with a Psychiatric Nurse. Anti D's start tomorrow I guess then he can come home.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:24 PM
The prostitute thing is a shocker. But the estimates are that around 16 to 20% of married American men visit prostitutes. In many other countries, the figures are much higher.

What I don't get is why intelligent men don't use protection.

I was in the psych ward on lock up about 20 years ago, and it was no fun. They DO take your shoelaces, shampoo, anything that you could use to harm yourself. Then they dole out the shampoo by the cup.

They have group therapy, art therapy, crafts, exercise, etc. I HATE crafts and art therapy and later found out that it cost $100. a session. But you have to comply, or you can't get to eat out of your room.

I was moritified. And I'm sure hubby will be too. All I wanted to do was get out of there.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by believer
They DO take your shoelaces, shampoo, anything that you could use to harm yourself. Then they dole out the shampoo by the cup. They have group therapy, art therapy, crafts, exercise, etc. I HATE crafts and art therapy and later found out that it cost $100. a session. But you have to comply, or you can't get to eat out of your room.

omigod, this is my marriage.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:28 PM
Hello Chrysalis and thank you.

You are so correct about how family unfriendly that profession is and there is always a lot of ego feeding. When they come home they expect it as well and it takes a lot to finally teach them that they are part of the family not a God in the household. I finally told mine that I was NOT a scrub nurse at work and I would not be his scrub nurse at home (nothing against scrub nurses at all, it was just a phrase). It did not help but you know how that goes. I would imagine there are other professions that affect people the same way. It would be interesting to know how these powerful positions affect women in their marriages. I would guess there is a very similar component to their relationships.

Congratulations on finally getting to recovery. I wish you well and luck.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:32 PM
I have never met an ICU nurse who could not make a joke out of anything horrible because it just has to be that way sometimes. The horrible things we see and do. It was as bad when I did ER, it just is difficult without it.

WH was a pathologist and did a stint as a deputy coroner, he has me beat in the gallows humor department.

Thanks so much Vittoria.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:33 PM
Quote
Yes, here in California, there are gays all over the rolling hills, walking and singing with goats.

So now it's the land of fruits and nuts and singing goats? whistle
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:41 PM
tst,

WH really grasped on to you and your advice. It meant a lot to him. It took him a while with Mike but he came to really respect him as well. Everyone helped him by not letting him get away with the BS he is so good at shoveling. Made him finally face himself and that is when he started to change a bit here at home so I owe you all a huge debt of gratitude for getting that started. I just hope he can continue it.

He just called me between groups (I have to say that this whole thing cracks me up and if you knew him, and I think you do enough, you would have a chuckle too). He is trying really hard, the nurses have told me he is trying to do everything and be a participant in his treatment. I am not making light of it, it is just so NOT him. He is coming home tomorrow hopefully.

Thanks for the hugs and prayers. I will tell him when I visit tonight about all of the hugs and prayers.

Dr. Harley helped me so much this morning. I am looking forward to more appointments and the MB weekend. He thinks we can do well there if we work from now till then we should be ready to move forward. I am looking forward to the time that WH thinks about me enough to make an effort to make me feel safe and loved. I have waited so long for that.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:43 PM
They DO take your shoelaces, shampoo, anything that you could use to harm yourself. Then they dole out the shampoo by the cup. They have group therapy, art therapy, crafts, exercise, etc. I HATE crafts and art therapy and later found out that it cost $100. a session. But you have to comply, or you can't get to eat out of your room.

omigod, this is my marriage.

Mike - LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:51 PM
He did use protection with the Escorts but not with his own personal girlfriend hooker that was faithful to him :RollieEyes:. I guess he must not have used it with the one in 84 that gave me a nasty STD. Perhaps that little episode got him to use one the rest of the time.

The real shocker to me is that he has cheated our entire marriage. There were months when he went to hookers 3 times and since that is what he says I am guessing there were times when there were more. Why only once when away at a medical convention where they are crawling all over? He estimates well over 50 women. I would guess over 20 years there were more than that.

This is a man who has never been married. I thought he was married to me but nope, he has never been married. At least not in his mind he hasn't.

Sorry about your experience. I do know that he is mortified but I also know that that is good for him. He is mortified by just about everything right now.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:52 PM
***snort***

You really make me laugh sometimes. Thanks.

I think my WH is going to be thinking this for a good number of years.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by faithful follower
Mostly I am following along here because Mike earns my respect with each post to you.


Me, too.

Mike, I confess I had little respect for you (I know that must be a shocker wink ) from the way you talk about your wife on your thread. I did not expect to see such a balanced, sound approach from you here. You surprised me and have certainly gained my respect (for the pennies it's worth).

P.S. I think your involvement in this thread has not only been valuable for SSS and GM, but also for you.

SSS, I'm so sorry that you are facing all of this. But it is clear from your thread that you are a strong woman. I pray God gives you direction.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 09:56 PM
Thank you SMB. You and tst have been so helpful.

I am getting direction from many different places and God is saying the same thing everyone else is. I can do this. I may have to end up leaving but I can do this. I hope we can be fixed but if not it will be OK.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 10:01 PM

Thanks.

Those who can do, do, those who can't, teach? :-)

It is easy to come off distanced and wise when it isn't your guts broiling.

Anyway, off to new counselor in an hour, see what kind of miracles she can work. Not particularly hopeful, we are both pretty entrenched....

I wouldn't mind seeing *MY* WS with velcro slippers making doilies, by the way...
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 10:19 PM
Hi sss,

Your story is heartwrenching...very sorry for your suffering. Some parts of it hit pretty close to home. You are getting great advice. Prayers to you.

And Mike is a big softie.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 10:22 PM
Good luck. I hope it goes well.

Entrenched, man oh man do I know that state! I hope you come away with a positive outcome.

I am still hoping for an ashtray. Don't know why since nobody smokes here but it sounded good anyway. wink
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 10:24 PM
Thank you.

We are all here feeling sucky and it stinks but we are all in this together in some way and that helps.

Yes, Mike is a big softie but apparently he does not get singing goatherds.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 10:26 PM
I'm joking around a lot because I understand what hubby is going through.

Sounds like he has been compartmentalizing things for a long time. The lovely wife at home, and his trysts with hookers.

And his "faithful hooker"? Oh, puleeze, don't make me laugh. She is in it for money only.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/22/09 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
And Mike is a big softie.

huh....

Is that better than a little hardie?
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
huh....

Is that better than a little hardie?



rotflmao


Uh, no.

Hard softies are best, regardless of size.grin
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
Originally Posted by black_raven
And Mike is a big softie.

huh....

Is that better than a little hardie?

:MrEEk: flirt rotflmao

I second smb.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 06:44 PM


Hey, where is SSS?

I hope a goat didn't eat her...
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 07:04 PM
LOL, nope they are just little guys.

I was sitting here staring into space when my BB rang your post.

I am so tired and sick of this, as everyone is.

I visited last night. He said some good things, looks like the few counseling sessions were good for him. It also sounds like they were fairly close to what Dr. Harley said to me yesterday. He was sweet and tearful but I can't buy it yet and probably not for a long long time if ever.

He is coming home if the Dr. ever gets there to release him. Hope he beats the snow. He is on Anti D's with an anti anxiety component. I am not certain I am happy he is coming home although I miss him since he has actually spent time with me since DD #1, all his time.

I think I have figured out part of why I am so stressed, as if there was not a reason just because of all he has done. This man has compartmentalized me out of his life. He ignored me for the most part and only marginally played the roll of husband. Now, since I found out about his second, care free life he has been so attentive and nice. I KNOW this is just part of the game with him but it feels like everything I have ever wanted so I am having to figure out how to be strong in the face of this until I can feel a little safer. That may be a very long time though. I will accept it but I will not buy it I guess.

This morning I went over his cell phone bill and found a ton of toll free calls. They were suspicious because of the timing of them and it looked like the kind of timing he had with his last 6 year A. I thought she used Internet phone and the numbers might come up that way. I spoke with him this morning about it and he was very upset and told me they were all legit and that he would call them with me when he gets home. I already called, I could not bear the pain in my gut. They were legit. Wow, he did not lie.

Oh well. I am a mess but I will get through this.

Mike, I hope your appointment went well last evening. I finally went and read your thread again. I am so sorry. It really sucks. I also have a nice house that I designed and built without his help and he did that here too. I think that hurts almost the most, that or his inviting her here to the open house and introducing me to her. WTF was that? Slap in the face I think.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 08:07 PM
Well, of course it is a nasty thing to do, but for some reason, they all love to drag their side pork into the family home.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 09:31 PM
Guess so. Such a shame. My house guest stayed an extra day last weekend and when I was away playing concerts he and WH scoured and bleached the room he and the OP had played in. It was a special room I had worked extra hard on and I just could not make myself go into it anymore. They scrubbed it and everything in it for an entire day and bought plants since I had let all the plants die. It was not WH's idea but he agreed and did it. I am sitting in it right now.

I may never forgive him for introducing me to her. Among everything else, that really hurts.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
He is on Anti D's with an anti anxiety component.

I think i mentioned this, or your doctor should, but anti/d anti/as are like music....what soothes one person grates on another. I had to go through 2 or 3 to find the chemistry that didn't make me homicidal, suicidal, or catatonic. Everyone will tell you 'this one is great!'. Yep, it was great for them, that is all that means.

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I think I have figured out part of why I am so stressed, as if there was not a reason just because of all he has done. This man has compartmentalized me out of his life. He ignored me for the most part and only marginally played the roll of husband.

Don't feel lonely, this is a syndrome which strikes one out of every one affair.

Our therapist last night look at us and said, "I guarantee there is one constant in both your lives, whether it is now or before you (WW) went out and had an affair. You were lonely in your marriage."

That was a pretty interesting way to put it.

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Now, since I found out about his second, care free life he has been so attentive and nice.

Do you really think it was carefree? OW sounds like a witch. My WW''s OM was Mr. Wonderful....heck, even *I* liked him when we spoke after D-day. I think I'd prefer the ex-wh0re manic psycho, personally. Not much to be nostalgic about.

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This morning I went over his cell phone bill and found a ton of toll free calls. They were suspicious because of the timing of them and it looked like the kind of timing he had with his last 6 year A. I thought she used Internet phone and the numbers might come up that way. I spoke with him this morning about it and he was very upset and told me they were all legit and that he would call them with me when he gets home. I already called, I could not bear the pain in my gut. They were legit. Wow, he did not lie.

ROFL....the month after D-day I looked at our cell phone bill. The OM had a block on his line so it would come up "restricted" or something. So I see all these calls by WW with weird numbers, not even phone numbers. Like five a day. Just like she used to do during the affair.

So i call her at work and go nuts, she's crying that she doesn't know what I'm talking about...

So I call the phone company. Those numbers were what it recorded when she checked her voicemail.

Oops. :-) Blew a lot of guilt leverage on that one.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 10:45 PM
OMG Mike, I did the same thing with the voice mail. I freaked out about it as well as her number. I thought he had another way to get to her. Her number was not hard to spot, about 25 calls a day. He would speak to her on the phone each day more than he spoke to me in a week and then he spent time with her as well and on the computer with her until the wee hours when he was not sneaking out.

I was lucky, the second Anti D was great. The first one made me climb the walls. He does not know about his yet, he has only taken one. It will take a while for it to work apparently, mine worked very quickly and dramatically. He is still very fragile so I will try to hold my temper until then wink. He called for an appointment time with Dr. Harley as soon as he got home and wants to come back to the forum when he feels a bit stronger.

"You were lonely in your marriage." That is a very interesting way to put it. Every now and again someone just hits the nail right on the head. That sure would have worked here.

It was carefree for most of the 26 years. She did not turn into a witch until she sensed he was pulling away. Now she is just awful so I do have that advantage. It must really be hard to like the guy you wife was going to. Damn. That would be much more difficult than a girlfriend who calls you names and tries to extort money from you.

I just got my copy of Surviving An Affair. Now I have something productive to read when I can't sleep and the Australian Open is not on yet.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
OMG Mike, I did the same thing with the voice mail. I freaked out about it as well as her number. I thought he had another way to get to her. Her number was not hard to spot, about 25 calls a day. He would speak to her on the phone each day more than he spoke to me in a week and then he spent time with her as well and on the computer with her until the wee hours when he was not sneaking out.

I know. after D-day they had a 44 minute call. I thought, she doesn't talk to me for 44 minutes in a month. Plus I keylogged these IMs where she just had to tell him every time she coughed or ate a cracker.

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I was lucky, the second Anti D was great. The first one made me climb the walls. He does not know about his yet, he has only taken one. It will take a while for it to work apparently, mine worked very quickly and dramatically. He is still very fragile so I will try to hold my temper until then wink.

I literally had an anti-D that made immediatey made me suicidal. Never had a thought like that in my life. On them had them, off them didn't.

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He called for an appointment time with Dr. Harley as soon as he got home and wants to come back to the forum when he feels a bit stronger.

Okay....this is totally counter to what you read here, but having gone thru something approaching IC last night, he may not be ready to jump right into MB until he goes through whatever psych stuff he is into. To participate in MB you can be hurting and ashamed and lots of things but you can't be "nuts" (bad term). You have to be somewhat whole and rational to begin the relationship mending.

I'll probably get flamed for that, but I think your H's breakdown is a different sitch than normal.

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"You were lonely in your marriage." That is a very interesting way to put it. Every now and again someone just hits the nail right on the head.

Yes. A very clarity provoking term...

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It must really be hard to like the guy you wife was going to. Damn.

Well.... :-) ... let's not go overboard. I have never met him and only talked to him a total of maybe 20 minutes. But he was a "nice" guy....bawled his eyes out, pretty honest, tried to make me feel better.

Doesn't mean he doesn't have some dental appointments coming :-)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/23/09 11:49 PM
What is IC? I can't find nor can I figure that one out.

I have some very interesting insights into what has been going on with GM. As I think back of certain behaviors I thought were weird I see them now as part of this "sickness" they are talking about. The very need to sneak and hide things and lie,lie,lie. He lied about the stupidest stuff. There is something there for certain, it is coming together for me. Right now I am having to pull my bootstraps up and hold him together. He is very fragile. It is the old get on your knees, look me in the LOOK AT ME, I am here, we are together etc etc Man, I thought I was the one that would end up in the loony bin.

I actually think there is going to be a recovery here although I will probably not think that in 10 minutes smile. There is a sickness and when I think back I know it, I just thought he was strange.

I think Dr. Harley and MB will help him because the thing that is tipping him over the edge is his guilt and man oh man he must have a ton of it. He looks at me and cries. I do not think there is a way he could be acting this but I will still keep my guard up. Sounds like maybe your WW's OP could use some of that guard. Dental appointments, lol.

Me, I am trying to decide if GM should just send a short NC letter with the addition of her need to get checked for STD's because there were many many other women. Of course he was faithful to her but she does not need to know that and it would sure make me feel better if she thought she did not get entirely away with what she did. I am not a dishonest person but stated properly it would not be dishonest..... naughty
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/24/09 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
What is IC? I can't find nor can I figure that one out.

Individual counseling.

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I have some very interesting insights into what has been going on with GM. As I think back of certain behaviors I thought were weird I see them now as part of this "sickness" they are talking about. The very need to sneak and hide things and lie,lie,lie. He lied about the stupidest stuff.

Yeah....i think it just becomes part of the relationship dynamic. Then again, it could be just part of his coping syle. I know I lie too much, just to avoid conflict or get some little thing I want. In business, whatever, not just marriage.

[quote[I actually think there is going to be a recovery here although I will probably not think that in 10 minutes smile.[/quote]

lol....yeah, get ready for at least 5 months of that. I'll tell you when it stops. It helps to have a very repentant and attentive spouse.

It sounds to me like GM was on his way out of the A anyway, with all the conflict between him and OW. Maybe you are being spared all the usual affair mourning withdrawal stuff, or it is happening in 48 hours instead of two months.

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I think Dr. Harley and MB will help him because the thing that is tipping him over the edge is his guilt and man oh man he must have a ton of it.

Yeah, I'm probably wrong there. Steve helps everyone.

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Me, I am trying to decide if GM should just send a short NC letter...

Personally I wouldn't. she is too volatile, and she definitely gets the drift already. I mean, when the sherriff comes to your door, right?

I know that is part of Steve's 'formula' but I think it is more for affairs with ambigious 'endings'.

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with the addition of her need to get checked for STD's because there were many many other women.

Come on...what do you care if her crotch rots? An ex-wh0re needs to know her boyfriend was promiscious? :-)

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/24/09 02:26 AM
Thanks Mike.

IC, I should have been able to figure that one out.

This flippy flopping around with our emotions is one evil thing to put someone you supposedly love through. My stomach is tossing and turning most of the time and do your nerves feel like jumping beans? Darn it stinks.

I do think I was spared a lot because of that on the front end of this thing but the back end has been a real killer. Ah, it matters not. It sucks no matter how you look at it and all of us here are suffering.

Yes, I know but I just wanted her to think she was not getting him to herself when she was so happily screwing my husband.

Sounds like I am blaming her a lot, well yes and no. She was just a working girl who found a sucker for anyone who would tell him how wonderful he is and then take him to bed.

These A's, all 26 years of them, are his and his alone as far as atonement goes. I am either going to get over this and have a queenly old age or I am going to be one pissed off ex wife. I already told him if we do not make it I would personally call every woman he takes out and tell them what he did. Twisting the knife. Still, while he falls apart and I pick him up I am building up the LB in a big way without having to swallow all of this and be nice. Worked out pretty well that way because it is mighty hard to be nice. I do not know how you are doing it.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/24/09 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Thanks Mike. IC, I should have been able to figure that one out.

Hey, I've been on this board since 1999 and I still look at some acronyms like the RCA victor dog.

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This flippy flopping around with our emotions is one evil thing to put someone you supposedly love through. My stomach is tossing and turning most of the time and do your nerves feel like jumping beans? Darn it stinks.

It does get better. I didn't believe it after d-day when the vets here told me, but it does. It's like a wound or surgery where the docs say it is going to be x months and you don't believe it, but then one day you feel better.

I had a grand mal seizure in 2004 and almost totally bit my tongue off. The doc said "nine months for your mouth to heal". I was like "yah, tha is farging boosert yug lyig mofufagrer"

But it was about nine months and it was better.

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I do think I was spared a lot because of that on the front end of this thing but the back end has been a real killer. Ah, it matters not. It sucks no matter how you look at it and all of us here are suffering.

there is a lot of parsing here of boundaries which I think is silly. Posters will say, "Wow, my wife fooled around but if it was in my house I'd never forgive it." Or if it was more than once or unprotected or they had walked in on it or it had continued after d-day or whatever, there are a hundred of them. THEN they would have been proud and walked away (inference: unlike YOU). I think it is a coping mechanism to make someone feel better about what they have come to forgive.

Soit isn't about what happened or even forgiveness, it is about how happy this person can make you in the future.

I guess, anyway.

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Yes, I know but I just wanted her to think she was not getting him to herself when she was so happily screwing my husband.

Let it go. Letting her know she is still on your mind and a factor in your marriage is more of a victory for her. (this from a guy with a court date against OM, lol)

S
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ounds like I am blaming her a lot, well yes and no. She was just a working girl who found a sucker for anyone who would tell him how wonderful he is and then take him to bed.

Her obit will say she was a wh0re. That is enough.

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I already told him if we do not make it I would personally call every woman he takes out and tell them what he did.

Do you really think you need to threaten GM about the future to keep him with you?

And if you break up do you think you need revenge? The poor guy is a stranger's scowl away from a straitjacket as we speak...
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/24/09 11:44 PM
Well, I hope he got out and back home today. Give us an update when you can.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/25/09 01:39 PM
Thanks Mike,

It is good to know from one more person that is does get easier. Seems to me I just need to grab onto that and trust, hard as that is. Yesterday was OK. We will see about today as it goes along.

That is terrible about your tongue. Egads that must have hurt like crazy. You did a great interpretation of how you must have sounded for quite some time lol. I hope that grand mal was a one time thing and all is under control now.

Yes there are a lot of different boundaries. In many ways I feel like a fool still working on this after everything that has come out but that feeling is only what my brain is telling me. My heart says that under all of this is the guy I love. I know him better than anyone in the world yet I don't know him at all. None of this surprises me though, the longer I go and think about it I could see tiny glimpses of this all along but was never able to put it together. I am not stupid, he is just very smart and had the means to do it and the pathology to be able to hide it and live with it. Now that I am aware of it I can protect myself as we try to work this out until the day he steps out of the program. Then the rethinking will not take long.

I also like the way you put this, "It is about how happy that person can make you in the future." Truly. Together we make a whole even though we each could be that by ourselves. It is just time he learn that and decide if he wants that. I know my answer.

Of course you are right, I do not need to get back at her. I just need to let it go. I have checked him in every manner I can and he is clean. I can't watch him any more than I have and do. I have the polygraph to go through with him but the threat of it has really blown open the doors already so doing it should end many of my remaining fears. He is not seeing or talking to her, there is no way he could be.

Well, again you are right. I was threatening him and there is no need for that and it is certainly not the right thing to do. The context was not presented so it was not completely as it seemed. He made another comment about himself stating something like if we got divorced at least he was able to work on himself so he could have a decent relationship with someone else. WTF? He ruined my life so he could learn to be a good husband to someone else? I understand my mistake here. I also know that if he does not start putting me in his healing equation then he has learned nothing and we will not matter, only he will matter as it has always been.

But you were right and I appreciate your calm assessment of it all.

Have a good day! I hope things are going smoothly for you and I hope somehow that date you have with the OM gets resolved out of court.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/25/09 01:49 PM
Hi believer and thanks for thinking about us.

Yesterday was wobbly at times but he seems a bit better, more able to think but very foggy from the new meds. We will have to see if that improves or if he needs another.

This morning I am taking him to church. He has never wanted to go but is now looking for that higher power that he feels he needs. I do my spiritual work outside on my farm or inside a sauna. My church experiences have never really been what I needed to reach God but if he wants this and needs this I am there. I have a church to take him to where I know many in the congregation and he knows a few. He should feel comfortable there.

Thank you for asking smile.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/25/09 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
It is good to know from one more person that is does get easier. Seems to me I just need to grab onto that and trust, hard as that is. Yesterday was OK. We will see about today as it goes along.

Looking back if I could change one thing, it would be not reacting to the highs and lows, kiss or kill I called it, the first few months (and boy did I react). Each party needs consistent behavior to have hope of reconciliation -- nobody wants to live with a manic depressive the rest of their life.

When I was "dark" (was our term, angry and volatile) I would go for a ride and blast Zeppelin. WW would notice and offer SF.

When I was sad and mopey I'd go for a ride and blast Zeppelin. WW would notice and offer SF.

hmmm....in retrospect it wasn't a particularly nuanced structure..

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That is terrible about your tongue. Egads that must have hurt like crazy. You did a great interpretation of how you must have sounded for quite some time lol. I hope that grand mal was a one time thing and all is under control now.

Hurt like double crazy, but that is a whole nother story. I went into status epilepticus, near death, coma, woke up two days later in the hospital. While I was out they did a spinal tap, CAT scan, MRI, blood work, everything.

Didn't find anything, and it hasn't reoccurred. they say it happens to some people <shrug> I've been on anti-seizure drugs for three years, AND...they MIRACULOUSLY removed 100 percent of my chronic back pain, which is an occasional side effect of that drug.

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Yes there are a lot of different boundaries. In many ways I feel like a fool still working on this after everything that has come out but that feeling is only what my brain is telling me. My heart says that under all of this is the guy I love.

Write down everytime you change your mind in the next six months.

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Of course you are right, I do not need to get back at her.

Her dream is to stay in your life and his mind. Don't help her be relevant.

(again, this is from a guy who harrassed the OM to the point where he is dragging me into court next week, so what do I knbow....lol...)

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I just need to let it go. I have checked him in every manner I can and he is clean. I can't watch him any more than I have and do. I have the polygraph to go through with him but the threat of it has really blown open the doors already so doing it should end many of my remaining fears.

Make it a polygraph every 90 days. You don't want GM to think this is a "one and done". "Trust, but verify" (Reagan, I believe)

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He is not seeing or talking to her, there is no way he could be.

I said that and was wrong. My WW called OM three times after D-day, then he called and then they met. I slacked off on NC, let her keep her cell phone, there it went.

I would have bet my eyes I'd scared them off with my freak out on d-day, but....there are strong emotions there.

You have to help him be strong through stringent NC protocols.

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He made another comment about himself stating something like if we got divorced at least he was able to work on himself so he could have a decent relationship with someone else. WTF? He ruined my life so he could learn to be a good husband to someone else?

That is a statement that is woven through a lot of counseling programs in order to bring reluctant participants to Jesus. He may just be parroting something they told him in the hatch.

Or, it could be a return of his manipulation.

He needs to be more committed than that, or at least fake it in conversation with you :-)

Call him out on it.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 12:33 AM
dontcha hate it when they drop off? :-)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 01:26 AM
You talkin to ME?

Hi Mike!

I have been hanging with GM since he is home, working the program, reading the book SAA (great book by the way) and trying to stay awake since they added to my anti D. Both of us are quite blunted so we are getting along really well. stickout

GM has his first appointment with Dr. Harley tomorrow. He has been very kind to me, remorseful until today when neither of us really gave a s*** because we are just happy to have made it through the day without falling asleep. Darn drugs. At least no rollercoaster right now, I did need a break from that.

He has posted in GQ.

You two doing OK? Is your court date this week? Any chance that will not get that far? Good luck and once again, thank you. You have been a rock for me and a godsend for GM.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 01:50 AM
Hi sss,

Glad to hear that you and GM are getting by as best you can under the circumstances. I too had to deal with a suicidal H. Those days were the lowest of the low. It was plain scary but it does get better.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 02:37 AM
Thank you so much black_raven. It was very scary to see him come apart like that. Nothing is worse than watching someone you love lose touch with everything and fall apart. I felt pretty good once we got him admitted, at least I knew he could not go anywhere or hurt himself.

We are getting by pretty well right now but then that old rollercoaster will start up that big track again. I am just trying to learn as much as I can so I will be better equipped to handle it this time.

I hope your H did well after he came through it and that you did as well.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 03:02 AM
Hi SSS!

The rollercoaster is just a b1tch#. Today I contemplated homicide, suicide, spousicide, my navel, a romantic honeymoon, and looped back in that order.

I think what happened to me is that the pain has slightly lessened each week since d-day, but the rollercoaster has stayed the same....I think it is nature's way of making darn sure you think your mating options all the way through for gene procreation purposes.

The first few weeks it was like getting hit in the head with a cinder block every ten minutes. I'd be coaching baseball or something, get absorbed...and then remember and WHACK!

I have to go to court Feb 4. My attorney spoke to OM's attorney and, after the details in my counter complaint agaisnt him, OM wants no part of a trial or anything but a mutual dismissal.

My attorney is sure the prosecutor and judge will rubberstamp it. But you stil have to show up. Hopefully I don't lose it and deck him in open court. That would ......be a bad thing.

So....I'll update you next week on my thread. Also, WW has IC tomorrow and I have it on Friday, so that will be interesting.

I'll go check GM's thread.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 03:56 PM
Good morning. Hope things are going okay for you. I think it will be a bit harder for you in recovery because you have the added difficulty of feeling like you don't want to upset hubby right now.

Talking to the Harleys should help him, and of course all the people here. Mike is wonderful and hilarious - his personality really comes through the computer screen.

I used to really get a kick out of some of his postings. Sorry, Mike, I know it wasn't funny, but I think you know what I mean. Maybe you should have been a writer!

Anyway, take good care of YOU, SSS. Come here if you're going crazy, and we will listen.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 04:27 PM
Good morning to you as well believer! I hope today is a good day for you. Thank you for your post.

I am taking this time to fill up GM's love bank. I could not be mean to anyone in his situation so it is really easy to be kind when I am still angry and sweet when I want to yell. I am working to build up a balance so he does not feel this is so hopeless that he wonders about straying. Even if it does take a bit longer I think we will come out ahead because of that. He has been working hard at being very kind and loving. My bank is beginning to rebuild because of that (he not only depleted it I feel like he nuked the site!). I am hoping that this early work will lessen the time if only for a small bit.

Everyone here has been so helpful. Even the posts that make you jump and freak out and be upset. They all are valid and give you another way of looking at the situation. Every single person here has helped. Mike has been bedrock for me and yes, he keeps me grinning. You just have to find the funny things, tease yourself a bit and have a chuckle. I must anyway or I would hide under my pillow and cry. I am a believer that you take what has come and deal. Then you go on because the past can't be changed but you sure can make the future better, especially if you acknowledge what has gone wrong before. At least I think so in my "drugged" state. Man did that anti anxiety drug do the trick!
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 04:43 PM
Just be prepared for the rollercoaster. Mike describes it very well. Somedays you will feel fine, and other days, will wonder why you are even bothering.

Hubby seems to be a good man who gets it, so I'm very hopeful.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 09:41 PM
Well I am climbing that first big hill as I write this. WH had his first phone session with Dr. Harley. He had to leave directly after so he called me and told me about it. Apparently he has to tell me details about the hookers. The how, where, why, whats and I do NOT want to know any more than I do now. I understand it is for healing and I will take a deep breath and take it like a woman but I feel out of control already and have that just punched in the gut feeling just thinking about the pain that is coming. There was much more, most of it sounded great to me and he is excited about doing it. He has always been very project oriented and now he has another big project to work on.

I think I will always know why I am doing this. No matter how withdrawn we were from each other, no matter how little he ever noticed I was breathing, no matter any of that I have to say that the times we were together were amazing. We work. I don't know how else to say it. He was always my best friend and we just work together. Why he pushed that out of his mind every time it happened is not something I can understand but he did.

So, I have purchased my ticket and have that feeling of sick fright that comes when you realize just how high you are going and how far you can fall. *sigh* It WILL be OK.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 10:06 PM
SSS - I suggest you ask the mods to move your thread over to General Questions. You need lots of input, so does hubby, and you will get more there.

The program is that IF you need details, he needs to be willing to provide them. Some people don't want details. I didn't.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 10:18 PM
I am not certain there will be details about what and how they had sex, Lordy I hope not. I guess I have to know all of the other details so that we can form a plan to stop it if there is an urge to do it in the future? I don't know yet, our conversation was brief, but I wanted to clarify now that I don't think it is about their sexual acts unless there is something I need to know about that (God help me if there is).
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 10:31 PM
I think the information about how he found them and accessed them would be important, and what frame of mind he was in when he decided to turn to hookers, and what his inner dialog was to make it seem acceptable to himself -- all that would be important so it can be replaced with new behaviors and self talk.

If he's supposed to tell about the nitty gritty of the sex acts, then find out why (radical honesty maybe?) and perhaps it would be acceptable for him to write it down and give you the paper and you could read it or not, as you choose.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 10:49 PM
Maybe someone can paste Joseph's letter.

I know each person is different. For example, there is a high end Japanese restaurant here that I had always wanted to go to. Each party has their own room, they sit on the floor, and food is brought in courses by traditionally dressed women. But somehow, in 16 years, we never went.

So guess where my ex took OW on their first date?

I was furious and wanted to know why he took her when he knew that his wife had always wanted to go and he never bothered. That is the kind of stuff that I was interested in.

Whether he poked her on one side or the other wasn't something I cared to know.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 11:06 PM
He is home and I think this is what it is. At least this is kind of how he explained it. There are lots more things to do. It is a plan and as I said WH is great with projects. I just got a seemingly very heart felt commitment from him to work it.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 11:09 PM
Oh believer, that must really hurt. I am sorry.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 11:11 PM

hmmmmm....

This is sort of a new dilemma to me. I'm surprised to hear Steve's advice. On the one hand, I've always known that the WS has to give up all questions that the BS WANTS to have answered.

However, now I see that what Steve may be getting at is the WW's need for total confession and radical honesty. Like, if there is some wretched detail he doesn't spit out, will it bother him? e.g.: SSS didn't want to know about hookers, but would they be better six months from now if GM knew it and she didn't?

Compounding this is their particular situation of a crazed OW lurking around trying to hurt their marriage by giving SSS nasty details. Maybe that is what Steve is thinking of if he knows it....

Plus there is the "puking it out" benefit. SSS may not WANT to hear something now, but the question might start careening around in her mond 2 or 3 or 4 months from now. Then it has to be opened again as a wound.

I went through that with my WW, and it has only recently tapered off. Like just last week I sudenly thought "Did he give her any Xmas gifts?" so that turned out to be a new ragged conversation. If I'd thought of it post D-day it wouldn't have been a problem.

Maybe it would be a good Harley article to have the Complete List a Wayward Must Know, in order to avoid this stop and start pain on radical honesty.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by believer
Whether he poked her on one side or the other wasn't something I cared to know.

ROFLMAO...

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/27/09 11:24 PM
I actually think it is what turtlehead said. It is a process to make a plan to be able to stop it if it comes up again. If we can figure out why he did it and I know how the process went then we can stop it?

I don't know if there is any more. Actually I think the threat of the poly and the knowledge that I was going to do that caused him to urk up the rest of the story. Of course this would not be the first time he deceived me. I am tending toward belief but still cautious.

We are going to make a plan to deal with crazy OW (she calls me a lunatic :)) in the event that she shows up again, and I believe she will. He has a high profile event coming up that is public and she will be there I just know it, she was before when they were together so she knows how it goes.

Now that I have talked to WH it all seems to make sense. Do I want to go through this information? No freaking way but it has to be done and we are going to follow the program no matter what we have to do. I say that with a slight quiver of my heart.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I actually think it is what turtlehead said. It is a process to make a plan to be able to stop it if it comes up again. If we can figure out why he did it and I know how the process went then we can stop it?

I totally agree with that. But there are details and there are details.

I mean, Steve is the man. the logic is interesting to me, but I think I hit on it above.

WW has been very forthcoming and told the the truth (or at least answered) even when my irish temper was red hot and it was pretty brave of her to do so. Also showed a ton of tears and remorse and consoled me as she shared the deatials.

Some of the better moments of recovery. How scr3wed up is that? lol....what has my life become...

Quote
We are going to make a plan to deal with crazy OW (she calls me a lunatic :)) in the event that she shows up again, and I believe she will. He has a high profile event coming up that is public and she will be there I just know it, she was before when they were together so she knows how it goes.

Bummer. It is terrible to have a violent lunatic stalking you.
Ask my WWOM.

Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 01:32 AM
"Bummer. It is terrible to have a violent lunatic stalking you.
Ask my WWOM."

LOL Mike...........
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 04:59 PM
SSS - a question

Who is tenderly administering care and attention to your wounds today?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:06 PM
How much info is appropriate here? I am falling and failing and I can't take this. I just typed out info and a rant and I want to post it but fear it is way too much to post here. How much is too much?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:10 PM
Hi Pepperband.

BH would be but we are having to work on these things and I just blew it (see my last post) and became that screaming scary person. I am not letting him do it today. He has been trying, I am still very wary and cautious. As much as I want to feel his attempts to make me feel loved I am not letting myself, too afraid it is more BS.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:13 PM
Fire away..............
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:20 PM
Thanks, remember you asked for it :MrEEk:

And down the other side I go. Big drop.

I just realized something. I am certainly not the brightest crayon in the box. This man, my WH, started cheating on me 2 years into our marriage. We were in the middle of MC with our first MC. There were several other MC's along the way. Never did it occur to him that HE had a problem. His cheating was my fault. He has cheated for 25 years. He left me daily to go to work and be a big shot then he came home, played with the kids for 5 or 10 minutes then went off into his own little world. I did all the work, all the parenting. Our Pediatrician had me marked down as a single parent and he KNEW my WH. For 25 years he was a big shot at work and paid for sex while pushing me off into the corner doing everything to maintain a family alone. I loved my kids and being their mother but that was all I had. Now, after getting caught he is here for me. Now after being retired and getting his honey as soon as that occurred he is caught and now back for me. NOW? He had sex every opportunity he had to go and pay for it then his 6 years with the last hooker he fell in love with and he left me high and dry to not only take care of everything but to take care of myself in every way that I needed and I sure was not getting sex from him. He was faithful with his last hooker for 6 years. No sex with anyone but her including me (I was so busy doing everything else and was so used to it that I noticed but did not think much about it, how is that for sick?). He was faithful to me for 2 years prior to our marriage and almost 2 years after we were married. Not even as long as he stayed faithful to his hooker girlfriend.

Now I am supposed to get the details of how all this happened from him. He starts in this morning to tell me and it hits me smack in the face. I am still getting the old "as far as I can remember" until I press several times then I get more truth. I just can't take this anymore. It has been 4 months and he has spilled out the worst stuff I can imagine (for me anyway) and he is still holding back and making excuses for a "just in case he forgot" scenario?

How have you all been able to do this? I feel so bad for everyone here, this is intolerable right now. How do you do this?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:24 PM
From one old RN to another - put your own healing first!
Posted By: Chrysalis Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:26 PM
sss,

it is intolerable. I've used that word a few times myself this week.

I am sorry. I have no magic wand to fix any of this, just a big hug.

(((((((sss)))))))
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:28 PM
It worries me greatly that GM is still the center of the universe. His needs/wants/tears/breakdown all take away from the loving care and attention you need right now.

Please, let us know when you become the center and the focus for healing. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. GM is still the center.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:45 PM
Kinda looks like I am going to need to. It is not going to come from anywhere else for a while if ever. Thank you. We old RN's spent so much time healing everyone else I guess we should be really good at it by now smile.

BIG PITY PARTY TODAY at SadSoSads place! Come one come all smile.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:47 PM
I have been reading your thread. I am sorry that you are going through this too. A big hug back. (((((((Chrysalis)))))))
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 05:50 PM
GM is the sun. Everyone else orbit around him with occasional touches and contact. I have always told him that. I have asked him many times over the years why I was the only one in a neighboring universe that he would not let in.

Dunno if it will ever be different. He has tried but yes, he is in pain and that is really all that matters.

Dr. Harley told him that he had to tell me what his affairs had done to me, not his own guilt but what they had done to me. That should be interesting. I wonder if he gets it?
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:01 PM
SSS,

Your marriage is one of the worst cases of mistreatment by a spouse (GM mistreating you) that I've seen on here. You are completely within your rights to walk away and never look back. Leaving GM's selfishness, dishonesty, and sense of entitlement *may* be the healthiest and sanest option for you.

However, you don't have to decide today whether to stay or go.
You don't have to heal today.

What you have to do today is take care of yourself, like Pep says.

Then you can see if he is capable of earning your trust and establishing new behaviors. Certainly recovery requires your involvement but make HIM do the heavy lifting and make HIM prove himself to you. Over, and over, and over again.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
We old RN's spent so much time healing everyone else I guess we should be really good at it by now smile.

Ain't that the truth ruth.

I am actually an RNP and I see a lot of employees (RNs) in my day to day work.
And what I've learned is that so many of us (I do mean US - including me) tend to minimize our problems.

Me: "How long have you been having chest pain?"
RN: "Oh - I don't know. It's not that bad. Do I need to lose weight?"

:crosseyedcrazy: :twobyfour:
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:15 PM
LOL.

Came at the perfect time as I got another nasty surprise.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
BIG PITY PARTY TODAY at SadSoSads place! Come one come all smile.

Okey-dokey - I recognize a fellow girl scout when I read one naughty
You see yourself as "a trooper" don't you !

This is the homework my MC gave me not too long after our D Day .... and I am passing it on to you.

Make a list of the times and the ways being "a trooper" has caused you harm!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
LOL.

Came at the perfect time as I got another nasty surprise.

hug

Is it a virus or a bacteria?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Hi Pepperband.

BH would be but we are having to work on these things and I just blew it (see my last post) and became that screaming scary person. I am not letting him do it today. He has been trying, I am still very wary and cautious. As much as I want to feel his attempts to make me feel loved I am not letting myself, too afraid it is more BS.

The way I read this:

YOU told GM you did NOT want him to purge today

and he did it anyway....

Is that correct?
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
....I sure was not getting sex from him. He was faithful with his last hooker for 6 years. No sex with anyone but her including me (I was so busy doing everything else and was so used to it that I noticed but did not think much about it, how is that for sick?).

say wot? That is a new piece of data. :-(

At any rate, SSS, I do NOT think it is a great thing to totally vent here given your WH reads here as well. You are going to get a lot of answers saying "jump" when you are on this ledge, and he will see that too.

If you are going to split, split, but if you are here it is to Marriage Build and try to recover, IMHO. I suspect Steve would say the same.

Also.....I forgot about this, but right after my D-day I posted here and some of the greatest historial MB board advisors came back, since they knew me from years ago, and posted on a thread to me. I'll come back and edit in the link in a minute. I wish I had listened to them more and acted out less. I REALLY suggest you read it. There is some intramural spatting in the middle ignore that. Look at the posts by K, JL, Kam, and a few others...


Here is the link:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2109616&fpart=1



Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:42 PM
SSS hug

I urge you to use this board freely, as you see fit, and as it fits your comfort level.
If you deny yourself board support - you've put yourself way in the back of the line - again.

Your turn to shine like the sun!
Posted By: barbiecat Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 06:50 PM
SadsoSad:

I really hate to start a post this way, but I believe you WH is never going to stop lying to you. He is compulsed (wired) to bahave this way.
Even if he wants, or would like to stop it, it is doubtful that he can.

What, exactly do you get from this relationship? What good things do you get for yourself? What emotional needs has he even tried to meet?-- I'm talking about the entire marriage, not just since A's.

If you choose to put together a life with him- there are going to be many more untruths. On many levels - from little to big- whoppers to white.

I read his post- I was awestruck by his ease of manipulation. His level of illness is WAY ABOVE what can be handled here with MB's (this site is not for alcohol or physical abusers or other people who suffer from severe mental illness.)

I hope he gets an appropriate diagnosis. Personality disorders are terrible, and tricky to rehabilitate.

Talk to a psychiatrist about the realities about living with a person with a personality disorder. Get all the details so you can make an informed descision about your future.

I know this is a pro marriage site, I wish you well, and I wish your husband well- and good health.

I just worry about YOURS.


Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
(this site is not for alcohol busers)

wot?

Quote
physical abusers

uh-oh....

Quote
or other people who suffer from severe mental illness.)

ok, bye!

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:12 PM
OMG you are TOO smart. Yes, I am a major trooper. This is most likely why everyone I have ever known has asked me to help when they fall apart.

Yes indeedy. I will work on that list. It is probably very important.

I am NOT going to be a trooper this time, it is not my job. He was just sitting here crying about it all, begging me to stay (I am really angry about what I learned today and it is bad enough I won't even share it here). He wants to know how to help me, how to heal me and he wants me to tell him. Like everything before now he wants me to do it and give him the credit for standing there smiling while I did all the work. I could see that if he ever tried to do anything on his own but I did not hold his hand when he wrecked my life and our marriage and I am not willing today to hold his hand and tell him how to treat me nicely.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:13 PM
Let's put it this way, I am very very very very very lucky it is neither one of those things.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:16 PM
No, not really.

Dr. Harley said we needed to talk about these things so that we could make a plan to stop this behavior if it ever came back. It requires me to know certain things I do not want to know and with that came some extra surprises that set me off.

This time it was not his fault but most likely mine for demanding honesty (that sounds really odd doesn't it).
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:18 PM
Call a friend
Call your sons

Go take a goat walk -
Go to church -

Go take a kickboxing class -

Go have a mani/pedi -

Do something wonderful for yourself, please.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:32 PM
Thank you Mike, I will read your thread later.

I understand what you are saying but GM knows and has heard everything I say here. He knows I have little outside support here at home and knows I need to be able to vent and get advice and feel part of something healing. He understands it. I appreciate what you are saying though, I really do. My main concern is that he would use it to further manipulate but since he already knows it I don't see the need to worry about that.

Yes, pretty sad isn't it? He did not want to have sex with me because he was afraid he would give me something again. He said he had to do this because he was not getting sex at home. Now where on earth did I fit into that? He created his own mess. I was one lonely woman and I have to say his SN's were filled very quickly after he stopped with OW. Oddly I learned how to compartmentalize my emotions from my SN's, kinda like many men say it is for them.

I am here to build, the more I learn though the harder and less likely I am to succeed. With every blow I have to honestly think and question and think some more about everything we are together just like everyone else here. When I get like this it really means little in the long run but just that I am upset, sad, angry, wanting to jump off that cliff or wanting to throw him off that cliff. Just for now while I digest the new stuff. Why do they drag this stuff out? Do you keep hearing that that is all there is and she is ready for a poly then find out more and more as you go along? I think you have been hearing that so you know exactly what I mean.

I am trying to recover and once it is finally all really and truly on the table I can make a decision but that is going to be a while I think. Besides the poly there is the psych evaluation.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:35 PM
It's called trickle truth, and is what most WS's do..........
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:36 PM
((((Pepperband))))

Shinning on! EDIT: Now that is a funny mistake! Shining is what I meant of course!

I need this place right now. Thanks.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
....I sure was not getting sex from him. He was faithful with his last hooker for 6 years. No sex with anyone but her including me (I was so busy doing everything else and was so used to it that I noticed but did not think much about it, how is that for sick?).

This was you, easing into the "mommie" role ... while OW/ho was taking over the "wifey" role.

You are not sick - but you have been very close up to a relationship dynamic that you need some distance in order to see the situation more clearly.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:39 PM
Thanks. Sucks doesn't it? Rip that darned bandaid off all at once. Jeeze.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:45 PM
I don't really know what to say to this. You are not the first to tell me this.

I am aware, I am being very careful with my feelings and making myself look very hard at each motivation.

I have a very big fear of being stupid and being made a fool of. Well he has made me feel both and that also keeps me aware of all the dynamics here.

I appreciate what you say and your concern. I am trying to stay very safe and yet still work with what Dr. Harley is giving us.

The psych eval did not show a personality disorder. There are other problems, they can be dealt with but it is going to take a while.

Thank you. Even though I hated reading what you wrote I see the value and care in it.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:48 PM
I think a goat walk sounds like just the trick. One of my poor babies is losing his hair and the vet does not know why. Now he is wearing a leopard print dog coat, and very proudly wearing it I might add. It is pretty funny.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:51 PM
He does not like it when I call her his wife. She really was in most ways and he loved it. He was more husband to her than he ever was to me. Hard to live with but the truth. Of course it was play life but still......

Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:51 PM
Hope you didn't miss the slipping into mommy role comment. That is similar to what happened to me. I was busy with work, the home, all the kids, when my ex rode off into the sunset with his OW who was 20 years younger.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 07:56 PM
Nah, I didn't miss it. I was just sitting here fuming that I did just that. I was the mommy, she was his wife.

Pepperband must be a psych nurse, she has me pegged.

I wonder if this is something many of us women do?

I guess I should not have been so angry about doing all the work while he sat and watched football, at least it was not what he ended up doing.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:03 PM
Maybe watching football is the link. Seriously, I did EVERYTHING - with his kids, my kids, his step kids, worked, did everything in the house, cooking, cleaning, shopping, yard, even with the cars.

I used to call my ex the peacock, and I was like his mommy. So he found a much younger wifey and went on a 3 and a half year long honeymoon. When he ran out of money and she dumped him, he wanted his mommy back.

But I'm to blame, because I never made my needs known, we never argued or had conflict. But I thought that was what wives were supposed to do.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Just for now while I digest the new stuff. Why do they drag this stuff out? Do you keep hearing that that is all there is and she is ready for a poly then find out more and more as you go along? I think you have been hearing that so you know exactly what I mean.


Well....since I am sort of in a defending the WS mode right now, I will say that looking back, it is as much that I didn't ASK everything as it was her hiding things. I mean, you can't expect her to say "Oh, and I just remembered, on date 4 I wore red shoes." Now that is one level of granualarity, and of course there is a lot of blue sky from there to the major revelations, like "I gave a mangy social disease to our goat." Or whatever.

I got the who/what/where/why/when in the first week. Frankly, I think I was reeling digesting that. Then other Qs kept popping up in my mind. WW was still honest, but in retrospect, I couldn't expect her to read my mind on some of the fairly obscure Qs....like, I don't know, "Did you take our dog on walks with him"....weird stuff like that.

Even last week I thought to ask her if he had given her an Xmas present in '07. Now, I can't have expected her to offer that up in a D-day confession filled with considerably higher drama stuff.

And, frankly, all this stuff gets old after 4-5 months. Last week, WW said, tearfully, "Can we just put this stuff behind us? You set us back everytime I have to go back and remember stuff."

So, my advice is, don't expect him to proactively remember and offer unbidden every detail, it isn't a reasonable expectation. But work hard on your end to think of every possible piece of information you want now, so you aren't thinking of new Qs 5 months from now. (you will be anyway, btw :-) )


Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:11 PM
I was much like you except I did make my needs known and he blew it off like I was simply an annoying gnat. I was always so hurt and wondered how he could be so callous towards me. Well, now I know. He did not have to care about me, he was getting what he wanted when he wanted it, how he wanted it and I was but a tiny complication.

Mine was Big Shot, yours was Peacock. Wow.

Did you take him back?

Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Pepperband must be a psych nurse, she has me pegged.

Nah .... Just experienced.

Our MC suggested that I'd been in the "mommie role" which left the "wife" role vacant .... I proceeded to tell MC that he was "Full of it" (but I did not use the word it)

Of course, MC was right blush
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:17 PM
No, didn't want him back. But we were divorced when the affair ended anyway.

Funny thing is, he always complained that I never initiated anything. But then I realized that when I did, he brushed me off - LIKE A GNAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I learned to be happy with what I did have. And actually, I was very satisfied with that.

LOL, just read Mike's post - he cracks me up.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:23 PM
Answer me this...

My WH always acted like that is what he wanted, a mommy. I always told him I was not his mommy but always found myself being forced to take that roll so that life could move on.

Is it just something in us that makes us just take that on? Is there something wrong with their brain that makes them not understand that if we are their mommies we are then too tired and kinda creeped out about being their wives? Well not really creeped out but from this perspective it is pretty creepy.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:26 PM
It is actually very sad that we can be so happy with what we had. I was too. I wanted a real husband but realized early on I was not going to have that so I worked like a dog, fell asleep and then got up to repeat the entire sequence again and again, just like you did and I assume many others.

Mike IS a hoot! He is also very compassionate and smart. smile
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:31 PM
Thanks again Mike.

I am getting ready, in the absence of any new revelations, to start compiling my questions for the poly next week. It is very hard at this point to actually begin to think about it. I will and I will post so I can gather pointers from everyone.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:32 PM
Don't get too impressed. I am making a girl suit from the teen trapped in the well in my cellar.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:32 PM
We are not forced to take on the mommy role, we just pick it up along with all the other roles.

After you are more recovered, you can read "The One", or "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders". But one thing at a time. Just realize for now that you will have to make some changes, and so will hubby.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:36 PM

You guys have got me creeped out with the mommy stuff, because I constantly am saying to the kids..."ask Mommy what's for dinner"....or "Mommy will be home soon"....or whatever.

Lol....I'll have to start using her first name or something now.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:37 PM
Yes, Mike, knock off the mommy stuff................
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 08:38 PM
Clarice? Is Clarice out here on MB somewhere?
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 09:00 PM
Clarice????? Lost me there. You mean in Silence of the Lambs?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 09:15 PM
Yes, that Clarice. I was responding to Mike who has a teen in the well by his cellar who he is going to make a skin suit out of. smile
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 09:29 PM
Sorry to drift from Mike's haute couture plans, but...

One thing I'd like to mention about the trickling of info... sometimes it helps to write down your questions as you think of them, then sit down maybe twice a week or every afternoon for a question and answer session. You'll find that after the questions sit on a piece of paper for a day or two they become insignificant and you just cross them out, not really caring. If they persist, then ask them.

The twice-a-week thing will help GM from feeling like he might get beat up every time you guys hang out together, too. He'll know he's safe until the next Q&A session.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 09:33 PM
Thank you once again turtlehead.

I will do that. I hate when questions pop up and I ask them then he answers and it hurts and I did not need to know that stuff anyway. This would prevent that as well.

Hmmmm, do I care if he feels safe? Yes, I guess I do smile.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 09:47 PM
I vote for the kickboxing idea!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 10:02 PM
Wow Mike, thanks for that link. It is very helpful. The very first thing I got when I started reading is that all I am doing is whining and feeling sorry for myself. Yes, I do have that right but I am not asking enough questions nor am I trying to trouble shoot my problems with those who are willing to help. Thank you. I hate hate hate being the victim but I play one very well.

OK, let me start out very simply.

I am finding out that my WH has not been faithful for 25 years. Mostly with hookers, either escorts or street, but the last one was a full blown LTA.

What is really the biggest problem here? The risky, secretive behavior or the need to always be "with" a woman who is not a match for him in any way. I will never be less than he is, I see us as equals. Part of him liked the dependence and the lack of equality in education, life skills, money, status, etc.

Is my problem dealing with a dishonest spouse with an addictive personality?

Just a beginning, just trying to start thinking instead of reacting.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 10:05 PM
stickout naughty

Hi! I hope you are well.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 10:32 PM
Mike, again about your thread.

One of the posters to you was ForeverHers and he said his wife had a 6 year long affair after they had been married for 21 years. I had not seen anyone here who had gone through something that long and after so long being married. It makes me feel some better but then I do have the additional hooker addiction to deal with but darn, that gave me a tiny light of hope that I lost today.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 11:20 PM
Foreverhers is a long time poster and a Christian. I have not seen him posting here lately, but have hope that there are many who have survived long term affairs.

I have not received my psychiatric credentials yet, but I would guess that the prostitute thing has to do with fear of intimacy, narcisistic tendencies, and FOO issues - what he learned from his father.

When you look at it, all you do is go pick out a stranger, pay her, and it is done, no fuss, no muss, no attachments, courting, etc. Great for a very busy man. And of course, a hooker will be adoring, and fit into his fantasies - she gets paid to do it.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 11:53 PM

SSS,

First off, I don't even remember what Forever said, so this is not meant toward him.

But on that thread, I think I even said it, K is the ultimate MB coach. JL is right there too. I forget who else of the "varsity" posted there to me, but I was very happy to have their help (which I largely ignored and freaked out for three months :-/ ).

That thread is worth its weight in gold. It is a shame all those veterans don't post much here anymore.

Anyway, as a comment to this board overall, pick your advisors and the posts you bother to answer (btw, use the "quote' button, because the last few I wasn't sure who you were addressing). There are occasionally 'angry' people who do drive-by blasting that just gets your blood up to no constructive purpose.

MB is FORWARD looking. You know the best way to stop your pain quickly? Get GM meeting your needs as an "expert" spouse.

Sidebar: I'm so wise now, when I stole her car and threw her toiletries and dress clothes onto the OM's lawn, not so much :-)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/28/09 11:57 PM
I will answer more in a sec. How do you use the quote? When I hit it it just copies the post I am answering. How do you get the boxes?

Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:13 AM
K doesn't post much. JL does, and is an expert.

But you have Pep and Turtle posting here, and you can't beat that combo.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I will answer more in a sec. How do you use the quote? When I hit it it just copies the post I am answering. How do you get the boxes?

You can do a couple different things. One you could hit quote on the post you are responding to or you click the " button on the bar at the top of the box you are typing in. It comes up as quote /quote framed in brackets and then copy/paste the text you want to reference in between.

Quote
like this
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by believer
K doesn't post much.

Yes we are way overdue for another cameo appearance so everyone can tell him how wonderful he is and then leaves again.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:21 AM
And you have FF, and BigK.

BigK will tell you like it is, guaranteed.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Mike, again about your thread.

One of the posters to you was ForeverHers and he said his wife had a 6 year long affair after they had been married for 21 years. I had not seen anyone here who had gone through something that long and after so long being married. It makes me feel some better but then I do have the additional hooker addiction to deal with but darn, that gave me a tiny light of hope that I lost today.

SSS, I think you would greatly benefit from a MB weekend, because you would have access to Dr. Harley daily. He is a clinical psychologist who has seen it all and can guide you out of this. I agree that Foreverhers would be beneficial, but I haven't seen him around in some time.

One thing that Dr Harley has said in choosing a marriage counselor/coach is to ask them how their OWN marriage is. He claims that many self professed coaches/MC's have terrible marriages themselves which should disqualify them. Sometimes divorce is the definition of success in many instances; but never is a long term bad marriage a definition of success. A coach who lingers in a bad marriage himself won't be of much help.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:46 AM
SSS,

Actually, the inital gut-wrenching post I made here d-day also had some awesome advice from those guys. I'll come back and put the link in in a minute.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=152242&Number=2105707#Post2105707
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:48 AM
And now you have Melody - another wonderful poster.........
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:49 AM
p.s. SSS, I wanted to also clarify that Steve Harley is not a doctor. He is a licensed marriage counselor. His DAD and SISTER both work with him and they are the doctors. Dr. Willard Harley is a clinical psychologist [he runs the weekend seminars and the one who would oversee your program] and Steve's sister, Dr. Jennifer Chalmers, is also a psychologist. They all run the Marriage Builders program.

I will add that Steve is an outstanding marriage counselor, IMO.

Thanks, believer. smile
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:50 AM
Thanks all. I will be back. My houseguest is home so I can't post now. I just wanted to say thanks, I will respond later AND THIS>>>>

I just signed off on a No Contact Contract that was faxed to Dr. Harley for any circumstance OW might try to get with WH. It was written by WH. I did have to take out all of the "to the best of my abilities". Really? If she comes up to him in a store the best of his ability to turn around and leave had better be the only ability he has. smile

He is also going to go find out tomorrow how to break our trusts down so that he can do a post nup that will protect me and allow me to stay at the farm without losing everything.

I am a totally schizophrenic. He is good/he is bad/he sucks/he is being sweet! Darned rollercoaster.

Later and thanks!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:53 AM
Each of us has had a phone session with Dr. Steve H. already. Friday we each get half of another.

I have to say, I was totally impressed at his ability to put me at ease. I did not even cry, it was that easy and very helpful.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 12:57 AM
"He is also going to go find out tomorrow how to break our trusts down so that he can do a post nup that will protect me and allow me to stay at the farm without losing everything."

Very good!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 04:09 AM
Thanks Melody. I still called him Dr. Harley in my response. He was excellent and I am looking forward to more opportunity to learn from him. I am so glad I found this site and then that my WH found it all on his own.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 01:24 PM
I am glad you found this site, too.

I'm glad that you saw in my post my concern for your future well being.

Let me say to you, I know a "little bit" about ASPD (anti social personality disorders) and my concern is that, and as a nurse you know this- there may be more going on in your WH thinking than is obvious now.

If indeed this is true, you realize that his behavior has nothing to do with you. Like I said before, he may be hardwired for telling untruths. To what level (or if this really is his infliction) is up to the doctors.

These people are:
Extremely intellegent
Extremely Personable
have huge egos.
Show/have no compassion for the effects of behaviors on others.
They also exhbit these behaviors over a long period of time.


These people:
Lie over silly things.
Hide certain truths from one person, different renditions of the truth from others.
Do not appear to have real shame (as it is percieved by a normal standard)
Will keep up one story as long as enablers> sp? allow. Then adapt to please the enabler- and continue until that story hits a wall. Does any of this sound familiar?

This site is a posting for all opinions, Not only am I concerned with marriage building, but I am concerned with the individual people I "meet" here.

I know I am taking you to the extreme side, I hope that I am 100% WRONG, BUT if you love your husband and want a future together--this very well MAY be something you have to contend with.

Laugh - or make stupid "one liners" at me all you want- I would be remiss not to give you my honest opinion. Now having done so--I will not post on this thread again.

By the way... I have over

20 years experience working with/evaluating "at risk" population.
some criminal justice background.
Best friends include school social worker and the school psychologist. They have absolutely amazing insight.
I also have family (sister in law) who has destroyed every job, relationship and connection she has ever made, due to ASPD. Have been watching this go on for 25 years.


IMHO;
You are on the tip of the iceburg. There will be more lies.
This is just not about 50 prostitutes>sp?. This behavior may or may not just stay in one area of a persons life.

There will be more "truths" uncovered. It may be harmless, it may be devastating. You are going to have to decide if this is going to be "o.k." with you. This site will help you, no matter what you decide.

Good luck to you.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 01:34 PM
Barbiecat

I do not see where I laughed or made a stupid one liner. I took your post very seriously. I have been warned of this before and I appreciate you doing this and giving me information I need. I just re read my response to you. You must have misunderstood my intentions or is it possible you read something I wrote to someone else?

I will go back and check myself but I assure you I did not take you or your advice lightly.

Peace
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 01:42 PM

That comment was aimed at me, SSS.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
That comment was aimed at me, SSS.

Thanks Mike.

I hope you are having a good day so far.

See, I can learn to do new things! I followed the advice and learned how to make a box, I think.....will see in a moment.

I do plan on getting back and answering everything posted last night. I will use the boxes stickout.

Thanks for all the links, they are very helpful.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 02:29 PM
Barbiecat - I think you provided excellent advice. Mike, SSS and I just try to keep things light sometimes. I hope you will continue to post your view.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 03:07 PM
QUESTION

After reading all this time and then seeing another thread today about the WS needing to do the work of healing I have a question.

We are planning on going to the next Marriage Builders weekend. Steve seems to think we would be ready to really get some personal use out of it if we keep working the plan and we are doing that. I keep reading that the WS should be doing all of this since it is what leads to healing. I just told GM if he wanted to go he needed to set it up, make the plane reservations, get the farm sitter reserved etc. Am I right about this?

One MC a long time ago told GM that he needed to take me out on dates, something he could do for me. GM would tell me he would take me to a movie on a certain evening if I found the movie I wanted to see and he agreed, if I found the babysitter and made the dinner reservations. I don't want to go back to the time that I did all the work so he could be the hero. Needless to say, we never went on those dates because if nothing else I am stubborn as a mule and did not consider that him taking me on a date. I am thinking this is somewhat the same. I made the appointment with Steve, not that any of this is difficult but still..... Am I being stupid here?
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by believer
But you have Pep and Turtle posting here, and you can't beat that combo.
Wow, believer. Thank you.
I'm vacillating between preening and freaking out at the prospect of trying to live up to that compliment. It means a lot, coming from you.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 03:22 PM
SSS

Recovery after adultery is hard. Make than damn hard.

My H was unfaithful after 14 years of faithfulness. His A lasted 2 years. There was one OW. He stopped all contact and confessed to OW's husband right away. He stopped drinking the day after discovery and joined AA not long after.

.... and even with all those efforts - recovery was hard hard hard.

I am writing this to say, do not anticipate a recovery timeline like ours. I had to reconcile 2-3 years of our marital history, not 26.

You mentioned that you'd not had sex with GM for 6 years. The previously mentioned poster "K", in his decade long recovery, has still not had sex with his wife. K says he is happily married, and I believe him. However, there are few people who would tolerate such a recovery scenario. There are other recoveries with chronic conditions and limitations that look intolerable to some of us, but not to the spouses involved.

Here is the secret ~~~> know yourself. Fix whatever brokenness you discover within yourself that you decide needs fixing. After you do that (takes about 2 years by the way) you are in a better position to make a decision about what you will and will not tolerate in the future.

I'll just share with you what I discovered about myself, as an example. My qualifier was respect. I refused to remain married if I could not recover the lost respect. I decided that if I did not respect H , I would not remain married to him.

Your qualifier will be yours. Mine was mine. K's was K's. etc etc etc

The first step is getting back to YOUR core - NOT GM's core - Y O U R S

When you read advice about marriage recovery - look at people's timelines and their stories. Have they been in recovery 6 weeks? 6 months? 6 years?

Try to figure out what that BS's qualifier to stay in the marriage might be. Earlier ForeverHers was mentioned. He is a highly religious man who's core value was marriage as a pact with his God. I doubt he'd divorce under any circumstances. In fact, he too was in a sexless marriage recovery for about 6 years as well.

See, you're not the only one.

Decide what is important to you. No one else.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
QUESTION

Am I being stupid here?

100% NO
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
QUESTION After reading all this time and then seeing another thread today about the WS needing to do the work of healing I have a question. We are planning on going to the next Marriage Builders weekend. Steve seems to think we would be ready to really get some personal use out of it if we keep working the plan and we are doing that. I keep reading that the WS should be doing all of this since it is what leads to healing.

True, but 90 percent of WW are not repentant at d-day (according to Harley), so BS usually has to tote the water initially. You seem to have a repentant and motivated spouse in GM.

Quote
I just told GM if he wanted to go he needed to set it up, make the plane reservations, get the farm sitter reserved etc. Am I right about this?

I told WW as a condition of returning she had to handle scheduling MB counseling and read through the material I suggested.

Not saying that is right, it is just what I did :-)

Quote
One MC a long time ago told GM that he needed to take me out on dates, something he could do for me. GM would tell me he would take me to a movie on a certain evening if I found the movie I wanted to see and he agreed, if I found the babysitter and made the dinner reservations. I don't want to go back to the time that I did all the work so he could be the hero.

General comment, going forward, making the *right* decision, not one that gives payback for the past.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I found the movie I wanted to see and he agreed, if I found the babysitter and made the dinner reservations.

PS - this was MOMMIE behavior

do you see it now?
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I just told GM if he wanted to go he needed to set it up, make the plane reservations, get the farm sitter reserved etc. Am I right about this?

I think this is very wise. GMs actions will tell you much more truthfully than his words how committed he is to recovering your marriage building a new marriage with you.

Quote
One MC a long time ago told GM that he needed to take me out on dates, something he could do for me. GM would tell me he would take me to a movie on a certain evening if I found the movie I wanted to see and he agreed, if I found the babysitter and made the dinner reservations. I don't want to go back to the time that I did all the work so he could be the hero. Needless to say, we never went on those dates because if nothing else I am stubborn as a mule and did not consider that him taking me on a date. I am thinking this is somewhat the same. I made the appointment with Steve, not that any of this is difficult but still..... Am I being stupid here?
I think you were possibly foolish in the past for not making the arrangements. Were you working outside the home at the time? How long were GM's hours, including commute?

If he was working 14 hour days and facing a 45 minute commute, and you were a SAHM then being stubborn and refusing to make the arrangements was cutting your nose off to spite your face.

On the other hand if you were both working outside the home and he was coming home to putz around in his workshop while you fixed dinner, and then he sat down to watch the news while you got the kids bathed and into bed then by golly YES he should have been making the arrangements.

Be kind of careful with this attitude though. It's not about keeping score of who does what and making sure everything is balanced and even. It's about both of you always putting the marriage first.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 06:50 PM
Quote
You mentioned that you'd not had sex with GM for 6 years. The previously mentioned poster "K", in his decade long recovery, has still not had sex with his wife. K says he is happily married, and I believe him. However, there are few people who would tolerate such a recovery scenario. There are other recoveries with chronic conditions and limitations that look intolerable to some of us, but not to the spouses involved.

Here is the secret ~~~> know yourself. Fix whatever brokenness you discover within yourself that you decide needs fixing. After you do that (takes about 2 years by the way) you are in a better position to make a decision about what you will and will not tolerate in the future.

I'll just share with you what I discovered about myself, as an example. My qualifier was respect. I refused to remain married if I could not recover the lost respect. I decided that if I did not respect H , I would not remain married to him.

Your qualifier will be yours. Mine was mine. K's was K's. etc etc etc

The first step is getting back to YOUR core - NOT GM's core - Y O U R S

When you read advice about marriage recovery - look at people's timelines and their stories. Have they been in recovery 6 weeks? 6 months? 6 years?

Try to figure out what that BS's qualifier to stay in the marriage might be. Earlier ForeverHers was mentioned. He is a highly religious man who's core value was marriage as a pact with his God. I doubt he'd divorce under any circumstances. In fact, he too was in a sexless marriage recovery for about 6 years as well.

See, you're not the only one.

Decide what is important to you. No one else.
What an AWESOME post! hurray
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 06:52 PM
Quote
I have not received my psychiatric credentials yet, but I would guess that the prostitute thing has to do with fear of intimacy, narcisistic tendencies, and FOO issues - what he learned from his father.

Are you working toward this? Good for you. I think you will be wonderful at it!

Quote
When you look at it, all you do is go pick out a stranger, pay her, and it is done, no fuss, no muss, no attachments, courting, etc. Great for a very busy man. And of course, a hooker will be adoring, and fit into his fantasies - she gets paid to do it.


Very well could be and add that to an addictive personality that loves the thrill of risk and you have a nasty brew.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 07:04 PM
Quote
But on that thread, I think I even said it, K is the ultimate MB coach. JL is right there too. I forget who else of the "varsity" posted there to me, but I was very happy to have their help (which I largely ignored and freaked out for three months :-/ ).

Hey, I know it might not be the MB way but I think freaking out is entirely appropriate. I have given myself several bad headaches yelling. Bad form I know but at the moment it was the only thing I could do, no self control. I am still learning.

Quote
That thread is worth its weight in gold. It is a shame all those veterans don't post much here anymore.

It is indeed.

Quote
Anyway, as a comment to this board overall, pick your advisors and the posts you bother to answer (btw, use the "quote' button, because the last few I wasn't sure who you were addressing). There are occasionally 'angry' people who do drive-by blasting that just gets your blood up to no constructive purpose.

I think there is value even in some of the posts I don't want to hear. It is true that sometimes they make me angry but...oh well. I am a quoting fool now!

Quote
Sidebar: I'm so wise now, when I stole her car and threw her toiletries and dress clothes onto the OM's lawn, not so much :-)
HA HA HA HA HA...oh





Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 07:13 PM
SSS -

"Quote:I have not received my psychiatric credentials yet, but I would guess that the prostitute thing has to do with fear of intimacy, narcisistic tendencies, and FOO issues - what he learned from his father.

Are you working toward this? Good for you. I think you will be wonderful at it!"

This was meant tongue in cheek. I do have a teaching certificate, but work in construction management, but at a hospital. Does that count?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by believer
K doesn't post much. JL does, and is an expert.

But you have Pep and Turtle posting here, and you can't beat that combo.

As far as I am concerned you are all experts. You all help, you all know what is needed from constructive plans to constructive criticism. It is all good and you all are good. Plus an added extra, I can say what I need to say and feel like I will get good information back or a laugh when it is meant to be a funny even in this awful situation. It means a lot.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 07:48 PM
Did you see my post about not working on being a shrink?

Well, Mike is over cracking jokes on hubby's thread. He should be a comedy writer.

Hubby seems to be very driven toward recovery. But who ever knows. I think the two of you are yell yoked in that regard.

One thing I've been pondering is that maybe the same thing that made him a star professionally is the same thing that made him a less than perfect husband. Like the two sides of a coin.

He is trying to make you feel safe by working hard, and providing amends financially. So it seems to me that he values you and the marriage.

Men are strange. I had a lifelong friend who was extremely successful in the world, but I thought he treated his wife very poorly. He went out in the world and did things, and she was very much in the background. When she died, I was completely AMAZED at how much he grieved for her - I mean, he was a broken man and his life revolved around her. Trouble is, he didn't show it that much when she was alive. So sad.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 07:48 PM
Arghhhh, my head hurts! You, my friend, always make me think and always direct me to use that thinking to good purpose. smile

Quote
You mentioned that you'd not had sex with GM for 6 years. The previously mentioned poster "K", in his decade long recovery, has still not had sex with his wife. K says he is happily married, and I believe him. However, there are few people who would tolerate such a recovery scenario. There are other recoveries with chronic conditions and limitations that look intolerable to some of us, but not to the spouses involved.

Our sex life had always been sporadic and not nearly as frequent as I would have liked it or as he demanded it. I do mean he demanded it and that is why it was not frequent. What happened 6 years ago was a horrible mess that all happened at once. My oldest left for college, it killed me. My youngest was getting ready to leave in a few months for college, still killing me. GM retired early because of his health and a pact we made when we got married to do that. With his retirement came a promise that we would work this out, do what we needed to do to make our marriage work and we would be happy working on and getting our house built on my farm. 2 weeks after he retired my brother came to live with me until his death. It was out of the blue and he died of AIDS a month and a half later. He was the only remaining member of my birth family. All dead before I even turned 50. I fell apart and was very depressed for a long time. By the time I actually found a doc who would prescribe meds to help me it was 3 years later and I had fallen totally apart. During the time I was with my brother in the hospital GM was seeking a mistress on the Internet, right after his promise that we would work on our marriage. I spent the rest of the 6 years overseeing the building of the house that I designed and I essentially did this alone since he was too involved already with OW. I knew something was going on but he never spent more than 15 minutes a day with me on the good days so there was no way to really know what was going on in his head. I did try. I guess I wanted to explain because it seems so odd to do without sex. Lets just say that there are ways. I sometimes wonder why I did not seek someone else out but I do know why.

I have a lot to think about. What great advice. I have spent many many hours alone so I have worked on some things I needed to fix about myself. I will go back and do that again. Things are different now. It is hard but a big help to know yourself, fix yourself then decide what you need. Thank you. I had not even begun to think about that.

I am sorry about what you went through but thank you for sharing. Your advice about qualifiers is right on, it has to be well thought out and not something fleeting. I will look at all those things when I read and try to figure out what the qualifier is. I do know that two of mine will be time and honesty, both of those things have been sorely lacking and that has to change. The Pepperband program! Sounds good to me. Thank you.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 07:50 PM
Quote
This was meant tongue in cheek. I do have a teaching certificate, but work in construction management, but at a hospital. Does that count?

I would say, YES IT DOES! smile
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 08:09 PM
Whew! I think I am caught up now! Yes I just responded to it. Funny.

Mike is priceless and the humor is much appreciated by both of us. I have ignored GM because he needs to work on his stuff and I need to work on mine right now. He also needs to feel free to write what he needs to write. I am certain that he tells me all of it anyway as I tell him. Neither one of us has been good keeping quiet with stuff?????????? Did I just say that? What a maroon!

The Obama joke? GM is a big ole liberal, not something found in Kansas often, we are kind of an aberration here wink.

He does seem to be driven and I hope it is true. I do take things like barbiecat said to heart, it is a truth I have to think about.

Quote
One thing I've been pondering is that maybe the same thing that made him a star professionally is the same thing that made him a less than perfect husband. Like the two sides of a coin.

Could be, that is interesting.

Do you think your friend knew how important she was to him? Maybe it just seemed that he did not care that much? Sad, very sad. At least we know that we found out where we stood before we died. I suppose that is something.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by believer
Men are strange. I had a lifelong friend who was extremely successful in the world, but I thought he treated his wife very poorly. He went out in the world and did things, and she was very much in the background. When she died, I was completely AMAZED at how much he grieved for her - I mean, he was a broken man and his life revolved around her. Trouble is, he didn't show it that much when she was alive. So sad.

Behind every successful man, etc.

You know....it is funny, but this is *almost* the dynamic my friends and family saw with me. WW is very quiet, introverted, not conversant on world events, etc. I'm...obviously, a babbler, and run in pretty lofty political and business circles at times.

Most men immediately love her because she is very young looking and cute as heck. I've never had a man ask me why we are together. But it has been subtly hinted at by quite a few women in my life, who, of course, only see a quiet unopinioned woman where they were looking for conversation at social events, etc.

BUT...I always *fawned* on her, she held the family together as an excellent mother and homemaker, and there was an important symbiotic relationship.

If WW ever died, I don't know what I would do.




Probably bury the body and hide the knife, actually, nowadays....
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 11:15 PM
Today, much success.

If I don't catch all my errors sorry, 2 kittens playing with my fingers as I type smile.

Last night GM finished with his No Contact contract. He defined every instance OW might communicate with him and what he would do. There was nothing on it that might suggest he needed help staying away from her. I don't know if he was supposed to do that or not but I really think he is totally over her. He gets a pained look, disgusted look when she is mentioned and it does not seem feigned.

Today we finished with his assignment about his other extra curriculars, the hookers (not the OW hooker). That was painful yesterday and painful again this morning but I think that is done. He then wrote up the reasons he thought he was doing that and what he needed to do if he ever even thought about doing it again. It seems OK to me, we will see what Steve has to say tomorrow.

He called the attorney that we have dealt with to set up trusts. We split everything long ago in case one of us got sued the other would be safe. He explained his infidelity (that surprised me) and spoke with him about what we needed to do to set up the post nup. Now we both need attorneys so that they can deal with this attorney, why so many I do not understand but the one that we both used to set up the trusts has to stay neutral. He called and got an appointment with an attorney for himself today. I will do that tomorrow.

We spoke at length about what he has done and he defined to me what it had done to me, not his guilt but what his affairs had done to me. He is beginning to understand. I told him what I needed from him now at this time. Mainly lots of care and reassurance and honesty. He just called me, he is on the porch and I am inside, just to tell me I am beautiful and he loves me. Nice. Gonna take some getting used to but......nah, I can get used to this easily smile.

To me there is much progress. To those who have warned me about the liars and anti socials please know that I am keeping all that in mind and watching carefully. Thanks.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 11:43 PM
........
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/29/09 11:56 PM
Oops, that was stupid. Done and thank you. I am waaaaay too comfortable here.
Posted By: Dancing_Machine Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 12:12 AM
Quote
Probably bury the body and hide the knife, actually, nowadays....

rotflmao

Yeah, but you gotta do more than that nowadays.

You have to sink it in a block of concrete and drop the concrete into a very large, deep body of water on a dark, moonless night...

Charlotte

P.S.) (Use a rowboat so you don't make too much noise.)
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Dancing_Machine
You have to sink it in a block of concrete and drop the concrete into a very large, deep body of water on a dark, moonless night...

Charlotte

P.S.) (Use a rowboat so you don't make too much noise.)


<feverishly taking notes>
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
He just called me, he is on the porch and I am inside, just to tell me I am beautiful and he loves me. Nice. Gonna take some getting used to but......nah, I can get used to this easily smile.

It is funny how intoxicating just basic expected marital behavior can be in recovery. My WW now seeks me out for hello and goodbye kisses, wants to cuddle at night, go for drinks, makes complimentary remarks....all this stuff that should be basic marital stuff, now it is like a huge deal to me.

Have to keep it in perspective...
Posted By: Dancing_Machine Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
Originally Posted by Dancing_Machine
You have to sink it in a block of concrete and drop the concrete into a very large, deep body of water on a dark, moonless night...

Charlotte

P.S.) (Use a rowboat so you don't make too much noise.)


<feverishly taking notes>

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao
Posted By: Ggirl615 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 01:01 AM
Hi Mike,
I agree. Recovery seems so terrible at first but when H & W are committed to it there is such a beautfil rainbow awaiting both. For the first time in my 19 years of marriage, I feel complete and I'm pretty sure my H feels the same. Sure there are days that I have setbacks but like you said - keep it in perspective.

G
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 03:43 AM
Originally Posted by Ggirl615
Hi Mike,
I agree. Recovery seems so terrible at first but when H & W are committed to it there is such a beautfil rainbow awaiting both. For the first time in my 19 years of marriage, I feel complete and I'm pretty sure my H feels the same. Sure there are days that I have setbacks but like you said - keep it in perspective.

G

hmmm...I'm not sure we are on the same wave length. My point is I am very suspicious of my WW's sudden 'affections'. Not only that, I am somewhat ticked at the fact that I am only now enjoying what I missed over 20 plus years of numbness.

Is it true change or temporary assuagement?

I don't know.


PS: I also don't know whether "assuagement" is a word, but it felt perfect there.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 02:25 PM
Good morning everyone!

I am feeling better and better. Not delusional, still guarded, just at the bottom of the last drop and leveling out.

I just got off the phone after my appointment with Steve. I can't really say a lot since GM and I are working two different programs. We are not dealing with anti social behavior. The liar part is certainly true but given the other things about GM I think we are going to be OK IF he can work the program and hold himself accountable. Big if I know. I will keep watch. The post nup is a big step in the right direction. It is certainly one more big bump for him get over in order to repeat his bad behavior. It sure has made me feel safer. Safe enough to say that I can and will continue the process and see what happens.

I thank God for this place and all of you. I would not have made it this far without this forum, you, Steve and the MB process.

I hope the next hill is not for a while but I see it coming, it needs to for recovery.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 02:29 PM
Quote
PS: I also don't know whether "assuagement" is a word, but it felt perfect there.

Sounds like a good word to me.

Quote
Not only that, I am somewhat ticked at the fact that I am only now enjoying what I missed over 20 plus years of numbness.

No kidding. I just keep telling myself that it will become habit and I will become the object of that habit. At least for now that is getting me by.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
No kidding. I just keep telling myself that it will become habit and I will become the object of that habit. At least for now that is getting me by.

Yes, I had hope for the "habit forming" side when we were MBing....I am not sure behaviors are stressed by this new counselor. I am seeing her in a few hours...

The thing I found as a BS is that I feel like I'm begging for crumbs. A peck on cheek, unbidden, puts me in a good mood for half a day.

When she leaves for work without saying goodbye, I SEETHE all day.

However.....maybe five times total she has done that in five months, taken off for work without finding me and kissing goodbye.

-- Once I found a note downstairs saying I was sleeping so soundly she didn't want to wake me.

-- Twice she called on her way in to work apologizing for forgetting.

-- Once she called from the driveway saying she forgot and asking me if she wanted me to park and come back up through the ice, upstairs, and kiss me goodbye. I said yes. Kidding.

-- The other time nothing, seething all day, there goes the new habits, falling back to the old withdrawal, yada yada. She comes in after work, big kiss, says she hadn't wanted to awaken me this AM, did I get her texts? No, but there were like five of them during the day worried that I was angered about no goodbye kiss. Hmmm....note to self...check your texts...

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 05:41 PM
Mike,

Would you not count those 5 times some kind of improvement?

Last year at this time GM would spend perhaps 5 minutes a day talking to me and those times were brief sentences telling me what he was going to do then he was gone. He got into the habit of walking right past me to gather materials for a "meeting" (sometimes they really were) then right past me and out the door. I would see his car going down the road so I knew he was gone, where I never knew for certain. I would get really sad and cry. Now that is a huge trigger, seeing him drive down the road but at least he says goodbye and does not ignore me. I make it a point to get in his way when he is getting ready to leave, just be there to remind him that I need a hug and kiss before he leaves. I don't have to say anything anymore he does it. Now I can try not being in his way and see if he thinks about it. It was such a habit and I think it often becomes that because they just can't face you while having an affair. It may be they can't face you because they are afraid of blowing it somehow or it may be shame and guilt but I do think it gets to be a big habit with them. Like you said, back to those old habits.

I think that those 5 times your WW left she at least caught herself and that is an improvement, no?
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Would you not count those 5 times some kind of improvement?

Yes. Of course, the times she remembered as well.

My WW is a creature of habit, runs her life with lists and little paste it notes.

So she can retrain herself, and slowly has on affection.

Like I think I said, it is a FOO issue.

But my point is the cataclysmic effect these stupid little things have on my mood some days, positive or negative....

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 06:52 PM
Quote
My WW is a creature of habit, runs her life with lists and little paste it notes.

I tried that but I either lost my list or forgot where I posted the post it notes. sigh

The longer this goes I find that almost everything is cataclysmic. Good and bad. I am tending to even out a little quicker but I think that is the medication.

Let us know how your appointment goes today (I read it on another thread).

smile
Posted By: Ggirl615 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 07:35 PM
I'm bad with losing lists too. I think when you're new to recovery it's part of the process to have the doubts that you and Mike experience as BS. The thing (like you said) is to recognize how much weight you want to give the issue at the moment. If a WW spouse does 5 things right and one thing aggravating, is the one thing going to outweigh the other good five ones? I guess it may depend on what the one thing is, but keeping it in perspective will help minimize anger/frustrations.

G
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 08:04 PM
Thanks Ggirl!

That perspective thing...Mike and others have been warning me to keep things in perspective.

I've never been good with perspective frown. Better be learning that.

I think it will help a lot once I get better at doing the things Pepperband told me I needed to do to learn about myself and what I want.

Funny, that is almost harder than all the other things that need to be done. I don't think I have ever really stopped and thought all that much about what I really want.

smile
Posted By: Ggirl615 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 10:25 PM
I'm definately more verbal about what I want. R has done that. I don't hold back. I've learned to stop and ask myself when things arise - what do I really want?. Eventually it becomes habit.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 10:31 PM
I have a question. By now y'all know how stubborn I am and I want to know from someone outside of myself if I am being belligerent and stupid or if this is normal.

When I found out about the 6yr OW (god there are so many how do I differentiate?) I also found out that she had been in my new house and they had tried (?) to do their thing in my sun room. I loved the sun room but could not go back in there after hearing about that. It simply triggered me. A friend of mine came over and we did a cleaning ritual of the entire house, sage smudge etc. That helped me a little but it was not until GM and my houseguest friend bleached every single inch of that room and the furniture and bought new plants and presented it to me that I could go into it comfortably.

Several months ago, not long after D Day #1, I was upset at GM about all the phone calls to OW that he made daily when they were together. Sometimes up to 25 in a day, mostly very short. I said he had to be just obsessed with her. He ended up dumping out a lot he had not told me before and one of the things was that he was calling to see if she would go with him hiking with our dogs. He does this most days going to trails in the area with them. I could never go because 1 person working a farm means 1 person working their a$$ off every single day. It made him angry that I would not go (he had no clue what I was doing) so he took her. I went with him after the first D Day only to find out he had lied, she had been there quite a few times with him. He lied because he wanted me to go and knew I would not if I did know. This just kills me. I do NOT want to go on those same trails (they covered all of them around here). He would LOVE for me to go with him. I would LOVE to go. I do not know if I could hike for 2 1/2 hours on a trail she had been on with MY husband and with MY dogs. Lord only knows what they did in the woods and where their special places were. I have the time now since he is helping me with the farm. I feel guilty about this. Maybe it is too early? Is this typical? Am I just being stubborn and pig headed about this? Does this make any sense at all? Dear Abbey can you help me? crazy
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 10:45 PM
Yep, a big part of my WW's time with OM was walking our dog in parks, etc.

And they had sex in our guestroom. On D-day I seriously considered throwing the mattress into the backyard.

I don't know why, but somehow the house thing doesn't bother me as much as it does some people. It was on the far side of the house from the family and bedrooms.

I guess it should bother me more but it doesn't. In fact I tossed her down there to sleep for three months on that mattress. I guess she had romantic memories for awhile, then she begged to get out of there when the fog started lifting.

The triggers fade after awhile SSS and some are worse than others. I mean, sure, I had to kill the dog, but the guest room thing doesn't bug me...


Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 10:54 PM
Oh Abbey! I KNEW you would help me whistle.

I got a new bed outta this! They played house at the old house while I was working out here on the new one. He let me sleep in it for the next year and a half until I found out. New mattress, new sheets, comforter, pillows and I made him throw out all of his underwear. Yea, I know. :crosseyedcrazy: It felt good.

This house was MY baby and it is on MY farm and it was supposed to be our new start (ha ha I bought that). I did it alone and oversaw every nail that went into it so it does bother me but that is why.

Poor dogs, they always end up to be the ones to suffer.

EDIT to add: It was my work that I mean when I say the house is MY baby and it is MY farm but we are going to put everything together so now he has to help with it! I did not want to sound selfish about this and it surely does.

Posted By: Chrysalis Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
... and I made him throw out all of his underwear.

I did that, too!
Posted By: not2fun Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:00 PM
SSS,

You will learn all kinds of ways to handly triggers. Some things you need to get rid of, somethings you reclaim. Somethings you change (like you did with the sunroom), and somethings you burn/tear up/bury, whatever.

Each and every trigger is different and what you do with each trigger will also be different......

For me, I had the trigger of his Porsche. Some would say get rid of it, but for me, after a couple of nice rides in, doesn't bother me in the least. There was a restaurant they frequented....I REFUSE to ever go there again. I found cards, emails, even the diamond necklace he bought her......got rid of it all.

Now, you have a little deliema in that these hikes weren't something you guys did together, so they weren't really "ours" in the first place. You hate that she went with him. Understandable. BUT......

Since you are here and attempting to recover, I suggest you go on those hikes anyway. It would fill a HUGE EN of his, which would only further his Love Bank with you. I know it will a trigger at first, but if you just face this and "reclaim" it, you will feel better about yourself. And in time (probably a very short amount of time), you will find that these hikes that could cause you such heartache, will fill you with joy because of the MEMORIES you two are making together......and that WILL stay in him mind.......

I know you THINK it will kill ya, but that which doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger.....

not2fun
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:00 PM
hurray

Felt right and felt good didn't it!

I wanted nothing she had ripped off of him that was that personal in my home. Blech, it just made my stomach lurch (along with many more things).

How are you doing? I did check in to your thread. I wish I had enough knowledge to help but just know that I am pulling for you and wishing you the outcome that you decide you want.
Posted By: Chrysalis Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:04 PM
What bugged me so much was that about the time this "non-sexual" A started, he went out and bought "fancier" underwear. I wanted it gone. Infuriated me that he'd bought it for her (still does.)

I'm OK. We shall see what the weekend brings.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:08 PM
GM bought different underwear as well but after 6 years I had forgotten until now. LOL. Sexy stuff for the girlfriend, not the old tighty whiteys. All gone now. He did buy the newer kind to replace the ones I got rid of. I like them. blush

You say "non-sexual". Do you think it was more?
Posted By: Chrysalis Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
You say "non-sexual". Do you think it was more?

I always have.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:15 PM
((((((Chrysalis))))))

I am so sorry. I don't know if an EA or a PA feel the same are the same or if either is easier to recover from and it does not matter anyway, they are both bad. All I know is the worst of it all is the lying. There is nothing worse than that as far as I am concerned. That is the destroyer. Damn, I really hate that you are dealing with that.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:25 PM
not2fun

Quote
I know you THINK it will kill ya, but that which doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger.....

Quote
Now, you have a little deliema in that these hikes weren't something you guys did together, so they weren't really "ours" in the first place. You hate that she went with him. Understandable. BUT......

See this is my problem. The hikes were not ours because I was not able to go (mainly because he refused to help me) so he did them with her and made the trails theirs. Those trails are "their trails" and it just makes me sick.

You are exactly right, it would fill a huge EN for him. I know that and I have resisted that and that is why I asked here. It seems very trivial but to me and to GM it is a big big thing.

He wanted to go to the far one tomorrow since we are going to have very nice weather. It will take about 3 hours or a little more. He is willing to not go if it bothers me and he knows it bothers me. I guess I can put on my big girl pants in the morning and say, "Hey, lets feed the horses, goats, dogs and cats and head for the trail." He will be very happy. I will be creeped out but that is a small price to pay since he has done so much for me this week.

Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:27 PM
mark the trail with your urine hurray
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:29 PM
I bow before your greatness!

I think I will actually put some in a jar (this is probably too gross so let me know and I will edit it out) and sprinkle it at the trail head and christen the darned thing the GM and SSS hiking trail!

Perfect!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:36 PM
Not very much can gross out an old RN, yanno?
What's a little urine amongst friends?
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:37 PM
yuk...

Hey, I like the "reclaim" concept.

Why let GM or OW, for that matter, retain little intimate memories of anything "theirs"? If you, as BS, can't throw it out, reclaim the activity as yours, and build new memories to make the affair ones fade.

In fact, I think I'm going to go work WW over in the guest bedroom tomorrow.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:40 PM
Much nicer than many things I can think of...chest tubes? Ewwwwwww

Hey, there is not much that will gross me out except vomit. I do not do vomit. So much so that in the ICU I would trade GI bleeds for a nauseous patient. smile

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 01/30/09 11:44 PM
You are so right!

Have a good time tonight Mike taking back the guest room. I really have no other response to that except blush.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/01/09 08:21 PM
How goes it?
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/01/09 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
How goes it?

Well, we had sex but my Ds were by the guest bedroom so we couldn't.....wait, you probably aren't asking me, are you?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/01/09 09:21 PM
Hi Pepperband!

Well, it goes. I think I am going to have to get back with the books and read about some things. I am feeling very blah about everything. Could be the meds could be not enough because it feels much like I did when I was depressed. Could this be withdrawl? That is what I am going to read about and check.

I was all set to surprise GM with the hike yesterday but our oldest son got in a terrible accident and totaled his car. He is OK but if it had been about 5 seconds more his little car would have been broadsided by an SUV right in his door. That brought us into our parent state and we dealt and took him out so he could buy what he could afford, poor student. That kind of thing always shakes you back into know exactly what is important in this life. I did tell GM I was ready to do the hike and my plans for marking the trail. It made him very happy.

I think this week I am going to try to come up with a starter list for a polygraph and look around for one in my area.

I am feeling guardedly optimistic since GM is doing the post nup, signing us up for the weekend, phone counceling with Steve and agreeing to everything. Still, 25 years of other women and lying is a lot to overcome so we are having to deal with figuring out his triggers.

How are you doing? Well I hope.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/01/09 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
Originally Posted by Pepperband
How goes it?

Well, we had sex but my Ds were by the guest bedroom so we couldn't.....wait, you probably aren't asking me, are you?
rotflmao


shaddup
Posted By: nikko Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/02/09 08:25 AM
sss- i have been reading and folowing along and praying for you.

i noticed you have horses.....i do too. can you ride the hikes? thats what i do. he can hike with the dogs and you can ride along.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/02/09 06:31 PM

By the way, aren't you in Kansas, SSS? It's totally flat. Just WATCH him. The horizon is like 30 miles away. Just tell him not to walk behind a Dennys or a brokedown combine or whatever.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/02/09 07:26 PM
Hope things are going okay today.

Had to LOL at Mike's take on Kansas..............
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/03/09 05:01 PM
Pepperband,

Quote
The first step is getting back to YOUR core - NOT GM's core - Y O U R S

This is what I have been thinking about the last few days. I have not been posting because it is too easy to get side tracked and I needed to get a start on this.

I am embarrassed to say that I have no freaking clue. I imagine that is not unusual for women and probably a good amount of men as well but still, how is it that I/we do not know such a thing?

Quote
Here is the secret ~~~> know yourself. Fix whatever brokenness you discover within yourself that you decide needs fixing. After you do that (takes about 2 years by the way) you are in a better position to make a decision about what you will and will not tolerate in the future.

This I have begun. What I posted before was the first broken thing I noticed. This is an easier assignment smile since I tend to find many broken things daily. That has to stop, I have to be humble but aware of what I am doing, not the doormat I really have been in many ways. My little proud lines that I drew were really no more than symbolic but they kept me in the "game". I lost, he cheated but my lines actually kept me from being aware enough to see it before it happened. (I know it is not my fault, I am not saying that)

Well wise one :), you have certainly put the "game" out there for me to learn. Life, so sad to have missed the point of so much of it. I hope there is a way for this old dog to learn new tricks so to speak.

Appointment with Steve in a few hours. He always makes me feel better by giving me new things to do and think about. Moving forward seems to be the best healer for me right now. The rest moves slowly. I am waiting for GM to really make the change, not to just go through the motions. I am appreciative of those motions though, they are big steps for him.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/03/09 05:28 PM
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, SSS. I was a lot like you.

I defined myself mostly through others, a mother, a wife, an employee, a homemaker. And there is nothing wrong with that, because goodness knows, our society needs people like us.

It is interesting that my ex chose an OW who was NONE of these. Well, she was someone else's wife, but abandoned her 12 year old daughter to go live with my husband, never worked, didn't take care of the home, liked mainly to have fun.

Since my ex had 4 kids and 2 step-kids, they never would have made a suitable pair. He had ME for that front.

He left just as our kids were getting on their own. And I discovered that other than my career, there was no ME.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/03/09 08:46 PM
Hey Believer!

I think we have to do that to get it all done!

I was lucky enough to be a stay at home mother and I loved it. It was hard but it was wonderful.

GM's OW is disabled (but she could do my husband 3-4 times a week), essentially from what I know she can be considered disabled but I do not think she is so disabled that she could not work. She is a drug addict, an alcoholic, is getting ready soon for a court date for being caught with a used Meth pipe. She does not have a legal license plate so she does not need to pay property taxes etc. you get the idea plus she made her money as an online hook up hooker. It is interesting isn't it?

Like it is not hard enough when the kids begin to leave that is when he chose to leave you? Niiiice. mad

Child of God
Wife
Mother
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/03/09 08:51 PM
Quote
By the way, aren't you in Kansas, SSS? It's totally flat. Just WATCH him. The horizon is like 30 miles away. Just tell him not to walk behind a Dennys or a brokedown combine or whatever.

I saw this after you posted it and waited until I could properly let you know that I laughed so hard I almost wet myself. I got this little vision of GM running and hiding behind old farm implements like in one of those old shooting galleries. Good thing it is not, I am a crack shot. smile

Thanks for the laugh........and the laugh.......and the laugh.....in fact I am still laughing.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/03/09 08:56 PM
Hope you are feeling better. We are going at it hot and heavy over on GM's thread.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/03/09 08:58 PM
That is a great suggestion. The hiking trails around here are separated for horses, dogs or just hikers so the trails are out. We could do it around here on the farm. I will start back up riding this spring since GM is finally helping me with the farm, I will have time. My horses are cutting horses so it may take some work. They are a bit touchy. You lay a leg on them and they are in the next state. That does not mean that I can't do it. Thanks for the suggestion.

If I find a trail around we could always trailer a horse out there, not a difficult thing to do at all.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/03/09 09:00 PM
I am always happier after I have talked to Steve.

I have to make myself stay out of his thread. Sometimes he tells me stuff or reads posts to me from it.

Go for it. This place has made a remarkable difference for both of us.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/05/09 09:39 PM

SSS -- what does Steve Harley say about the polygraph? pro or con?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/06/09 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Well wise one :),
rotflmao

wiseass is more like it

Quote
Life, so sad to have missed the point of so much of it. I hope there is a way for this old dog to learn new tricks so to speak.

I think you said you have raised 2 amazing sons. That is a life to be proud of!

One of the things that I learned during my personal recovery (besides the stupidity of playing the trooper) was that a big part of my personal philosophy on life needed to be revised. Updated if you will. Bulldozed is more like it. That pissed me off I can promise you. It was a philosophy around which I had practically built a gold shrine.

We're probably close in age (as is Believer). I turn 60 this July. Do you remember the Disney film staring Haley Mills ... Pollyanna

When I was trying to reconcile what "happened to me" (<~~~ which is how I used to think of it) I was most resentful for the loss of my inner Pollyanna.

My goodie-two-shoes blow-sunshine-up-your-tushie approach to life was exposed as a complete an utter failure.

I thought that my sunny optimism would protect me from real harm and disappointment.

Was I wrong or WHAT???

This is what wikipedia says about pollyannaism:
Quote
The novel's success brought the term "Pollyanna" (along with the adjective "pollyannaish" and the noun "Pollyannaism") into the language to describe someone who is cheerfully optimistic and who always maintains a generous attitude toward the motives of other people. It also became, by extensionā€”and contrary to the spirit of the bookā€”a derogatory term for a naĆÆve optimist who always expects people to act decently, despite strong evidence to the contrary.



I had loved that sunny persona about myself. But, it was a false self.

I plunged head first into cynicism. Which made me feel ugly inside and not at all lovable.

Would anyone love me if I was not a Pollyanna?

Can you see the trap I'd made for myself?

I had to reconstruct my life long way of approaching others. More guarded. More suspicious.

And the real kicker ?????
MUCH MORE HONEST

I share this with you to give you an example of what I mean by finding out who you are at your core. Dare to take yourself places into yourself where you don't want to go. Root around in there and come out of the ashes a beautiful phoenix.

I know you can.
Believer did.


Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/06/09 08:42 PM

SSS,

Maybe I've missed this, but did you expose to your two sons or not?
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 01:48 AM
Given the most recent nukes that have flown your way, I hope you are doing ok SSS.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 02:07 AM
Hi black_raven

Thank you for asking. I had stopped posting on this thread because I was thinking of some of the things Pepperband had mentioned and then I got whacked on Friday, again on Saturday, again on Sunday and then again today with new info. Much of it was just hurtful but some of it was deadly and of course he did not think they were anything special because he would have had to think of me to understand how bad they were but all he could think of was his overpaid girlfriend, as he said at the time he hated me.

I think the worst thing is that I told him on October 4th, the day after I found out with the first small piece of info he gave me that I wanted it all then. I told him that I did not want to work on recovering only to have him hit me again and send me back to the beginning. This was pre MB so I had no backup but I told him and he did not follow. This has been continual every few weeks since then and every time I tell him this but he is still doing it. To me that hurts almost as bad as the 25 years of other women.

Teetering on the edge here. Thinking there may not be a reason to work on this M any more but we talk to Steve in the morning. He always helps me.

Thank you so much for asking. hug
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 02:25 AM
I know you have been whacked over and over and probably don't know which way is up right now. Sorry. But one thing to keep in mind is GM has 20+ yrs of details to puke out. I know it seems of little comfort when you are subjected to one blow after another but trying to wrap up 20 years all at once or in a very short period of time is tougher than most. frown

{{{SSS}}} hug
Posted By: Stellakat Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 04:01 AM
I amm really worried about you. How could any husband hide what he did for all those years...that well? How could you not see it? The money missing? Other clues? Perfume on clothing? Him being home so little?

You could have 10 STD's now. From all of this.

I really do not understand how you, an intelligent woman, did not see it. It does not add up to me.
Posted By: johnstwin Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 06:06 AM
Quote
I really do not understand how you, an intelligent woman, did not see it. It does not add up to me.

That's because you have never been betrayed.

Those of us who have know that it isn't as simple as not seeing it.
We KNOW something isn't right, but we can't quite put our finger on it.

And the truth is, no one expects the worst from their spouse.



Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 05:19 PM
Quote
I really do not understand how you, an intelligent woman, did not see it. It does not add up to me.

What do you not understand? Do you think I am making this up? Do you think I have never asked myself how I could have been so stupid? In the end it adds up to me, it adds up to my FWH (yes I do think it is former) and it has certainly added up to Steve. His answer to my asking how I could have been so stupid was that like every married person I assumed my husband wanted the best for me and that he loved me. I did not snoop or check around because I believed him. He cheated once, we got past that and I assumed he was back to being my husband. He was not good to me but I was working on it. Kids sidetracked much of my worry. He reassured me. Did I suspect? Yes. Did I check up on him? No. I trusted he would not have done the things with me he had done if he was cheating. Really, who would ever suspect the depth of his betrayal when you thought you were loved (sorta kinda loved)?

I guess to you that is stupid and perhaps it is. Whatever, the point now is to move forward. Because of our situation our program is very different from many of the others here. We are working on it. It is hard for me and feeling stupid does not help. I will work on this until it works or not. I did not stick in an inadequate marriage this long to just up and leave. This man, for better or worse, is part of my soul and I will do what I have to to try to make it work.

I have now had my share of STDs and I am very aware of the need to take care of myself. Thanks for reminding me though.
Posted By: Stellakat Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 05:30 PM
Kids sidetracked much of my worry

I can understand this. Sorry I said anything.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 11:14 PM
It's OK Stella.

I am not myself today, coming out of a very bad 4 day stretch. I am sorry for being so short. Just be glad you are not living within hearing distance of my house, lol. I am heading for a blah streak thankfully. None of this excuses my behavior though.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/10/09 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
[quote]What do you not understand? Do you think I am making this up? Do you think I have never asked myself how I could have been so stupid?

You don't have to answer every poster, hon.

Pick the ones that are constructive. Otherwise your thread will turn to venom.


Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/28/09 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Well wise one :),
rotflmao

wiseass is more like it

Quote
Life, so sad to have missed the point of so much of it. I hope there is a way for this old dog to learn new tricks so to speak.

I think you said you have raised 2 amazing sons. That is a life to be proud of!

One of the things that I learned during my personal recovery (besides the stupidity of playing the trooper) was that a big part of my personal philosophy on life needed to be revised. Updated if you will. Bulldozed is more like it. That pissed me off I can promise you. It was a philosophy around which I had practically built a gold shrine.

We're probably close in age (as is Believer). I turn 60 this July. Do you remember the Disney film staring Haley Mills ... Pollyanna

When I was trying to reconcile what "happened to me" (<~~~ which is how I used to think of it) I was most resentful for the loss of my inner Pollyanna.

My goodie-two-shoes blow-sunshine-up-your-tushie approach to life was exposed as a complete an utter failure.

I thought that my sunny optimism would protect me from real harm and disappointment.

Was I wrong or WHAT???

This is what wikipedia says about pollyannaism:
Quote
The novel's success brought the term "Pollyanna" (along with the adjective "pollyannaish" and the noun "Pollyannaism") into the language to describe someone who is cheerfully optimistic and who always maintains a generous attitude toward the motives of other people. It also became, by extensionā€”and contrary to the spirit of the bookā€”a derogatory term for a naĆÆve optimist who always expects people to act decently, despite strong evidence to the contrary.



I had loved that sunny persona about myself. But, it was a false self.

I plunged head first into cynicism. Which made me feel ugly inside and not at all lovable.

Would anyone love me if I was not a Pollyanna?

Can you see the trap I'd made for myself?

I had to reconstruct my life long way of approaching others. More guarded. More suspicious.

And the real kicker ?????
MUCH MORE HONEST

I share this with you to give you an example of what I mean by finding out who you are at your core. Dare to take yourself places into yourself where you don't want to go. Root around in there and come out of the ashes a beautiful phoenix.

I know you can.
Believer did.

OK, I am coming back to try and start this. Man Pepper, you certainly know how to make a person think. It is much appreciated though because I was still hanging on to what I thought I was and it has not been helpful.

This will be long..........

I did raise two amazing sons and I am very proud of that. Each of them have been here the two times I totally crumpled since finding out about GM's A. Later after I finally came out of it I realized that they took care of me the way I had taken care of them when they were little and hurt. They each were scared to see their Mom in such a state and they each held me like I was their child and told me how they still needed me and loved me and were afraid for me. They have each promised to be here as soon as they could if I needed them and to always be available by phone if I needed. I realize now that their love and their being have been my only reason for living. Everything else was just to compensate for my lack of a marriage. I am very proud of the men my babies have become. I did well there.

I did try my hardest to be the wife GM needed but he raised the bar every time to the point that I finally realized that he would never be happy. He now remembers how he treated me and is ashamed and confused. Each "failure" was met with a threat. I was afraid, it has always been fear and I never figured that out until now. I tried off and on through the entire marriage and was either treated like a stupid failure or reassured of his love and commitment. Both of those things, the love and commitment, were lies to keep his prop for everyone to see and someone to take care of the kids. He has admitted that he did not feel love for me from the moment we got married until now. He does not know why marriage changed everything. I felt it, I saw it change, I did not understand it and I became afraid very quickly.

Fear in a stubborn person who like you was a Pollyanna just does not work. I put the worry aside and just went head first into being the best mother I could be without smothering my sons with my need.

I have also realized one of my biggest assets was also one of the biggest reasons I allowed all this to happen. I have always been known as "The Rock". I was the person everyone brought their fears and problems to. I could handle anything and advise and help without crumbling under the pressure. I took care of their kids, their health needs, listened about their problems and helped them when they needed. I was one busy little beaver and strong as an ox. Now I see that my strengths (Pollyanna delusions, being stubborn and a rock) were what enabled me to hide the fear from myself. I knew, I always knew what GM was up to. He had constant EA's as well as everything else. The entire hospital would call me about what he was up to and when I confronted him he would blow it off. He could not be expected to change. He was totally independent of me and our family. I let it go, I was busy and strong, he was not really going outside our marriage. I let him do it by letting it all get hidden in my strength and by accepting his strong reassurance that I was the only one even though things were not good.

I honestly think GM gets it. I honestly think GM loves me again. I honestly think he has earned his "F" by accepting what has happened and going head first into accepting blame. He feels remorse and I see it daily. He acts like the husband I always wanted. We really have never been married and now it seems we finally are. He is working the program harder than I am and supporting me when I say it is all too fast for me and I run backwards for a while. I am allowing myself to be vulnerable at times. Still, I do not trust my judgment yet and have my guard up most of the time. I do not think that is unwise for now.

Yes we are close in age. I am 55 until December. We grew up in an odd time for women. Everything changed mid life didn't it? It confused men but they have no idea how confused it left us.

Thanks my friend. With the help of MB we are trudging through and sometimes there is a tiny light of hope now. That is a good thing smile.

Posted By: Stellakat Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/28/09 08:23 PM
So you have answered my question of many posts ago which was: "How could you not have known?"

So now you have discovered that you HAVE known all about this on some level.

You have been told of his indiscretions many times.

You have ignored all this.

You have put up with his abuse and lies

I am sorry you felt so badly about yourself that you put up with him all these years and cheated yourself out of a marriage. You are, even now, possibly ignoring the situation enough to "keep him there" and not immediately divorce him.

My hope for you is that you bolster up your own self esteem so high and strong that you can demand better treatment from him or have the strenght to finally divorce him. At the very least you should get a strong post nup agreement and take most of what he has "left" after he blew your time, money, energy, and the "best of himself" on these other women.

Please bolster your self esteem way up. So that you do not shut your eyes to the truth ever again.

Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/28/09 09:34 PM
Quote
I have also realized one of my biggest assets was also one of the biggest reasons I allowed all this to happen.

That's always an interesting place to begin a journey!

Good job!

That wasn't so hard, was it?
lashes

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 02/28/09 11:58 PM
Hi Stellakat!
Originally Posted by Stellakat
So you have answered my question of many posts ago which was: "How could you not have known?"

So now you have discovered that you HAVE known all about this on some level.

I did know but I also did not. I had no proof. I did let things go. I had my children to think about. I found out about the first one because he came home with an STD that he promptly gave to me. I thought we had worked that out although I have never healed from it. So Stella, it was fear. Purely fear that kept me there and stopped me from checking.

Quote
You have been told of his indiscretions many times.
Those could be passed off as rumors. I hated it and I railed about it always but again I did not want to fail at this and I was afraid of all that losing him meant.

Quote
You have ignored all this.

No. I never ignored all the rumors. It was very painful and I LB'd him to death with it constantly. I was waiting until our children were out of the house then I was going to split. He took that time after the youngest left to reassure me that we were going to work things out and that he loved me. It was all a lie but I willingly believed it. That was the very time he started up the final 6 years of skank-ho love.

Quote
You have put up with his abuse and lies

Yup I did, you certainly got me there.

Quote
I am sorry you felt so badly about yourself that you put up with him all these years and cheated yourself out of a marriage. You are, even now, possibly ignoring the situation enough to "keep him there" and not immediately divorce him.

Me too, me too. frown Not now though. Even though I do not entirely trust my own judgment I see monumental changes in this man. Why? I am not certain. I wish I could believe it was for me but I can't, not yet and that is what I am waiting for. This is a site to heal marriages that need healing is it not? I would rather try this than simply divorce. He was always so good to everyone else so I know the essence of the man I fell in love with 30 years ago is still there. Why he chose to single me out for this kind of treatment is a problem in him that he is addressing with his own therapist.

Quote
My hope for you is that you bolster up your own self esteem so high and strong that you can demand better treatment from him or have the strenght to finally divorce him. At the very least you should get a strong post nup agreement and take most of what he has "left" after he blew your time, money, energy, and the "best of himself" on these other women.

My self esteem is good now. I admit, I had little but over the years it has grown as I set off to raise two kids by myself and also create a life for myself rather than wait around for the once a year ILY from GM. I am not afraid of divorce. I am quite capable on my own and do not mind being alone. It would not be my choice but I can certainly do it if I need. 100% retroactive post nup is in the works.

Quote
Please bolster your self esteem way up. So that you do not shut your eyes to the truth ever again.

I have Stellakat. I will never trust him blindly nor will I ever let him sink below the high standards I have set for him to stay. Thank you for your post.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/01/09 12:03 AM
Quote
That wasn't so hard, was it?

:RollieEyes: HA! Piece of cake! :RollieEyes:
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/01/09 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Quote
That wasn't so hard, was it?

:RollieEyes: HA! Piece of cake! :RollieEyes:
rotflmao


Well - I guess this old dog can be taught ....

You said:
Quote
I was one busy little beaver and strong as an ox.


I know, I know.
This person makes one-hell-of-a good nurse, but doesn't sound like a sex-pot wife lashes



loveheart < ~~~ look! a new one !
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/01/09 12:29 AM
The sex pot went away when there were rules and conditions placed on her cry . She is BACK and making her own rules now! blush

I was thinking about that nurse thing. Yes, you and I both filled that qualification very well. kiss Forever kissing boo boos. kiss

Oooooh, a new shiny thing to divert my attention loveheart .....oh, that was the old me smile .

Cute, I like it. loveheart

It took forever for me to start on the inward trail. It was painful to discover how much I really did suspect or know letting the proof go. Fear is a terrible thing. "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when my fear is gone I will turn and face fear's path, and only I will remain." Paul Atreides DUNE
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/01/09 02:06 AM
Hey everyone, I have a question.

I have been getting ready to sit down and evaluate where I am with all of this. I am going to think and then ask some questions. I still have not compiled a good list for a polygraph. I do have some questions written down but do not know if they are good. This is a must for me, that he take it and that he pass it and that he is willing to go in any time I might request it. Just one more bar he has to be able to clear. Can I post them for suggestions and additions?

What struck me today that is of great importance right now is the 6 month deal I keep reading about. We are going to hit 5 months on Tuesday (it seems like forever). I am dreadfully worried about the 6 month hit that I apparently am going to take. I have read that it is because at 6 months you can finally begin to realize just what has happened to you and the magnitude of it in your life. Is there any way to deal with this in advance or prepare in any way?

The one really good thing, at least I think it will be good, is that we are doing the MB weekend a week and a half before we hit the 6 month date.

Sheesh, something else to worry about I suppose. Any suggestions or help? Does this always happen around the 6 month time frame? Does it always happen? It terrifies me to think that I have not accepted the magnitude of this yet but I do fear I have not. What can I do to prepare?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Sheesh, something else to worry about I suppose. Any suggestions or help? Does this always happen around the 6 month time frame? Does it always happen? It terrifies me to think that I have not accepted the magnitude of this yet but I do fear I have not. What can I do to prepare?

Don't try and stop it when it happens.
Let 'er rip.
Dance with the goats when you feel you might explode.
It's not as bad as when it comes as a complete surprise.
Go have a salon day - the works.
Go on housework strike - OR - clean house like a whirling dervish (whichever works or alternate at your discretion)
Pharmaceuticals when necessary.
Write filthy poetry.
Say "the F word" 10 hundred times, until you start laughing at yourself.
Like gas from raw onions and bell peppers, it's better outside than inside.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Sheesh, something else to worry about I suppose. Any suggestions or help? Does this always happen around the 6 month time frame? Does it always happen? It terrifies me to think that I have not accepted the magnitude of this yet but I do fear I have not. What can I do to prepare?

Don't try and stop it when it happens.
Let 'er rip.
Dance with the goats when you feel you might explode.
It's not as bad as when it comes as a complete surprise.
Go have a salon day - the works.
Go on housework strike - OR - clean house like a whirling dervish (whichever works or alternate at your discretion)
Pharmaceuticals when necessary.
Write filthy poetry.
Say "the F word" 10 hundred times, until you start laughing at yourself.
Like gas from raw onions and bell peppers, it's better outside than inside.
Hi SSS,
Yup, that's a great list. The oven seems to be a great thing for me to scream at, I don't know why, I love my oven, it's just there I guess. :RollieEyes:

I am at the 6 month mark, I take it that it is anger that you are worried about???
I have gotten angry, but I don't think to the degree that I've read about, so maybe that is yet to come.
What I have found difficult is triggers and dreams. I wish I had been more prepared about them. It seems when I read here, I tend to digest what is applicable at the time. Last month, triggers and dreams did not seem to be an issue, now I look for info on them.

An event came up recently that my H is to go to. This event is the same kind that started his A. It threw me for one H3ll of a loop, since I didn't expect that something so unimportant, or so I thought, would affect me like it did.
I began feeling uneasy, then angry, then sad, and then the anxiety set in. Travelled like a hot flash. grumble. Then the panic attacked. This was so new to me. I was able to recognize the panic from the MC mentioning it. I think this helped b/c I could give that feeling a name and was better able to control, as best as possible.

If it happens again, at least I can recognize it, and I know it will pass.
I have figured out that a trigger can be anything you expect, and anything you don't. How's that for wisdom. Wish I could say more to help you. smile

Take extra care prn smile

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 03:05 AM
Thanks Pepperband.

I guess I am confused (AGAIN!)

If I let 'er rip am I not doing major LB nd DJ's? I thought I was supposed to be sucking all this up and making it stay out of the conversation. I am not very good at it. I can bring stuff up and talk rationally but then it often turns into DJ's and the occasional AO.

I hope GM does not read this....he cries so easily now. He just starts to talk about something and then tells me he loves me and starts to tear up. It happens a lot every day. I feel guilty adding to that because even though I know he did this I also know now that he is tremendously sorry but still.......every now and then I make him cry. Not really on purpose but I suspect it is because it helps me. I hate that but there it is. It makes me feel better, justifies the small part of me that is beginning to forgive some of this (just a teeny tiny amount). This is the worst part right now because I know it is wrong. I don't have to pay him back. I am becoming the person I was before he married me and I am happy to see her again, she was so happy and fun and had so much joy. That person can be angry and very sad but not need to pay it back. Does this make sense? Is normal or am I way out of whack here? I don't want to hurt him back, I did for a little while but that has been gone for a while. I am really just thrilled I did not go out and have a RA because I really really wanted to do that.

So that is why I worry about the 6 month deal. That is why I feel so badly when I do let 'er rip and boy can I do that. He takes it. He agrees with me. He understands and says I can do that whenever I need to because he deserves it and then he cries when I tell him how much it hurts but that I still love him.

Arghhhhh! I do not know what I am doing and I am afraid of blowing it.

I am just now having the marriage I thought I was getting almost 27 years ago and I do not want to blow it now.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 03:31 AM
Poor oven, what did it ever do to deserve that? LOL, that is great. I will go looking for one of my appliances to yell at. I LOVE it!

Hey Vittoria!

Hot flashes and panic attacks! You poor thing. I had panic attacks at one point and I thought they would kill me. I am certain the hot flashes are cooking me from the inside. Horrible things. Here is what I did. They gave me meds but I could not function with them during the day. I made myself sit and be quiet and started to breathe very purposefully (like what you tell your patients to do when they are nauseated). I closed my eyes and tried to see a blue spot develop. If I saw it but was still feeling the panic I would try then to get that blue spot to expand. By the time I gave up or did it the attack was over. I was sweaty but fine.

Quote
I have figured out that a trigger can be anything you expect, and anything you don't. How's that for wisdom. Wish I could say more to help you.

I think that is very wise. It is true. I have one very bad trigger and lots of smaller ones. The big one is when GM drives down our drive and then down the road. I used to sit here and watch him leave knowing in my heart he was not going to a meeting but going out to be with someone else. I would cry and shake and be scared. It happened every day for 6 years. Many of those times were actual meetings but toward the end when he was seeing her daily, probably the last 2 years, I just sobbed for hours it seemed. THAT trigger is hard. He has helped that by calling me from the road telling me that he loves me and will be home soon and asks me to use the phone and track him. I wish he would do that all the time but I am always glad when he does.

Should we start a dream discussion? I have two dreams that keep coming back and when I wake I have a terrible day until I can just let it go. Sometimes I think it helps to discuss them. They are not difficult to figure out but they do torment you. I would love to do that if you think it would help.

Well, I am a month behind you. Let me know if you get smacked with a 6 month anger spree. We will be around if you need to just post to get it out.

Sending you hugs and wishes for a dreamless night. hug
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 04:05 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I guess I am confused (AGAIN!)

If I let 'er rip am I not doing major LB nd DJ's? I thought I was supposed to be sucking all this up and making it stay out of the conversation. I am not very good at it. I can bring stuff up and talk rationally but then it often turns into DJ's and the occasional AO.

No. You are not supposed to bury your honest grief.
You've sucked it up for years. No more.

And, no where in my post did I mention saying/doing anything in front of GM.
He can watch if he wants to.



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I hope GM does not read this....he cries so easily now. He just starts to talk about something and then tells me he loves me and starts to tear up. It happens a lot every day. I feel guilty adding to that because even though I know he did this I also know now that he is tremendously sorry but still.......every now and then I make him cry.

OK - this part is written by Nurse Mildred Ratched, so gird your loins ~~~ :MrEEk:

Too damn bad for GM uhuh . You being honest with your emotions is part of the healing process. He has to "suck it up", not you, princess. He owns his reaction. You are not guilty - not not not.

Next time you think you are "guilty" post about it and one of us will either tell you:

"Yes, you did a bad thing. Feel guilty about it, briefly."

Or (more likely) someone will say

"Are you nuckinfutz? You did not do anything you ought feel guilty about."

Don't own GM's emotional roller coaster or else Pep ~~~> rant2



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Not really on purpose but I suspect it is because it helps me. I hate that but there it is. It makes me feel better, justifies the small part of me that is beginning to forgive some of this (just a teeny tiny amount).

BTW, this is where the "6 month rage" comes from. When you soften towards the WS - it makes you madder and madder. You will be at your most vulnerable of having an inappropriate relationship yourself. You will be mad at yourself for forgiving such a load of crap --- then you have to forgive yourself for forgiving your spouse --- basically, it's a glorious mess TEEF

You're not blowing anything. You cannot imagine the crap I put Mr Pep though - and I adore his highness soooooooooooo much today.
LOL afterthought


Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 04:45 AM
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And, no where in my post did I mention saying/doing anything in front of GM.
He can watch if he wants to.

I think that is a show he would prefer to miss. Gotcha, he is with me all the time so I will just have to excuse myself. If he won't leave he can catch the incoming.

"If Mr. McMurphy(GM) doesn't want to take his medication orally, I'm sure we can arrange that he can have it some other way. But I don't think that he would like it." Nurse Ratched

He broke it, he owns it.

Of course I am nuckinfutz, this rollercoaster SUCKS! grumble

Oooh, so going to the MB weekend just before the 6 month mark might not be so good. Going anyway but I am now forewarned. I appreciate that. Interesting. It makes perfect sense that forgiving that "load of crap" would make one angry.

My houseguest friend offered to get me an escort of my very own so I could do on my bed what GM did on my bed and then let him sleep in it 5 hours later like he let me do. Ooops, I am soooooo sorry. I forgot to change the sheets before you laid down to sleep last night. Yes, I would love revenge but I would not sink to that. Still, what kind of an a**hat lets his wife sleep on sheets he just did his girlfriend on? GM has changed, partly because he sees just how completely horrible he had become. I suppose his trickle truth saved him. If I had known about that in the first month he would have been castrated and left on the side of the road. Should have been anyway. Does your brain ever get tired of making your heart feel stupid? :crosseyedcrazy:
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 03:30 PM
Another question, always another question.

For those of you who have dealt with addictions I have to ask this question.

This morning GM was telling me that he is certain that he will never cheat again. **RED FLAG** His reason is that he will read and know his EN's and EP's and never let it happen again.

From what I remember of AlAnon that is not the correct response for an addict. He is addicted to the risk, and the admiration. My thoughts are that the moment he becomes certain and a pretty young redhead in spike heels says something flattering that certainty of his will be rapidly pushed aside. The excuse is that he is CERTAIN he will never cheat again so how can this one time flirt be a problem? So he flirts back, it feels great (he is still certain he will never cheat). She pushes a bit more, they exchange phone numbers or email or simply hop into bed right then (the most likely with him) and there it goes. If nothing else this will become another woman to have another EA with.

Am I way out of my mind here? This fits GM, this is exactly what I have seen him do before when he shoved me aside (really shoved me aside) and made his way through a crowd to be with another woman who had flirted with him before. Even if he does care about me now I will never be risky. My admiration will always pale in comparison with another woman's new admiration. I am the known. She is the possibility. IOW, he will want to know that feeling again just one more time. Just once. That is the addict and that is what I fear.

I love that he has the EP's in place and that we go over them weekly. They are good, detailed and I trust them. I trust him to use them when he thinks he could be at risk or just in every day circumstances. I do not trust his being certain that he will never cheat. It will take one time, that is all. Even if I fill all of his EN's I will never present the thrill of getting away with something. Even if he knows his EP's all it will take is that certainty that it will not lead to cheating to allow each hazardous step to occur. Just this once. Just to feel that again, just this once. What could it hurt? It feels too good and SSS will never know.

Sorry for all the repetitions, it helps me think.

sigh Am I making this too hard?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 03:40 PM
Do you trust yourself to dump him immediately at GM's first breech of boundary? The first toe over the line?

Do you trust yourself to NOT move your boundary?

Are you aware that YOU maintain your boundary about what you will and will not live with? GM has nothing to do with it!

Are you certain that if GM so much as any flirts with another female you will end the marriage?

Sister, this is really your decision to make ~~~" "Where is my absolute line?"

And, I don't expect you know right now. It's still formulating in your mind. You'll get there.

Your question reflects your self doubt, not doubts you have about GM, but doubts about your resolve and your determination that there will be no more ... no more straws on your back, no feathers, no mosquitoes, and certainly no hurtful and obnoxious behavior.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 03:54 PM
Gotcha and thanks. I am going to have to chew on this a while to make it work in my brain.

Yes, I will hold my boundaries and I will dump at the first toe over the line.

I have one boundary now and it is the bottom one because I expect a real marriage and he has lots to live up to to make that happen. My bottom boundary is that he will not cheat or even come close to cheating. The first sign of inappropriate behavior is the end. I will determine those using his very own EP's.

He knows this. I guess it remains to be seen if I am more important than his need for risk and extra admiration.

The rest will come when we start to find some solid ground.

Oh wait! I get it already. It is my decision. He can either make it work or be gone. Right? Maybe not? Geeze, for someone who thinks they are smart I can certainly be insecure and dense! shocked This whole thing has screwed<<<you can't say that?>>>OK it has messed me up so much I can't even think rationally half the time. sigh
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 04:31 PM
POJA everything but your boundaries.
Your boundaries were very very vague in the past, it is only natural that you will be uncertain how to do this - it's your first time loveheart

You will learn POJA skills at the seminar.

I'm just wanting to refocus you on YOU when I see that you are wandering off into GM's emotional/spiritual quagmire .... trying to fix him.

Your tasks are different than his.
Don't mother him.
Learn to love him like a wife .... (oh, crap, I just know this comment is going to set you reeling into the goat dance dance2)
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 07:46 PM
Hi sss, smile

About the 6 month mark...

For me, that was the period of time I was more mad at OW than FWH. Yes there was anger and questioning myself for staying, but not an exploding kind of anger. Perhaps that is because I had already ripped off FWH skin prior to finding MB. whistle

There was a time I wanted to hurt him and a time I didn't care if I hurt him; either way FWH was going to hear it. The latter was the worst for me because I felt like I was losing myself at that point. You are not whacked. I had moments of guilty pleasure for making FWH feel like dirt after all I had been through. Like you, it did help me heal in some ways. I would have resented not getting certain things off my chest. If FWH was going to cry about it...oh well. The truth can hurt. I don't feel that way anymore. I said what I wanted to say (and then some LOL) but the worst was over for me long before we were 6 months out.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
POJA everything but your boundaries.
Your boundaries were very very vague in the past, it is only natural that you will be uncertain how to do this - it's your first time loveheart

They are developing and I agree, they have been vague but they will be mine.

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You will learn POJA skills at the seminar.

Good, that will be helpful.

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I'm just wanting to refocus you on YOU when I see that you are wandering off into GM's emotional/spiritual quagmire .... trying to fix him.

I do not want his problems. It may be no fun on this end but I know it is not fun on his either. You are right again, I can't fix him. He has to want that and do that himself.

Quote
Your tasks are different than his.
Don't mother him.
Learn to love him like a wife .... (oh, crap, I just know this comment is going to set you reeling into the goat dance dance2)

I am looking forward to being a wife with a real, actual husband.
I am tired of being a mother to everyone.

Believe me when I tell you that the goat dance is far and away preferable to the Hampster dance.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 08:43 PM
LOL LOL LOL black_raven

I too have ripped off GM's skin. I have said things that I am ashamed of. He deserved them and probably more but my limited imagination contained what might have been worse.

I would love to lay into the OW. I have met her but then it was GM introducing his unloved and unlovable wife to the girlfriend he was newly and totally in love with. Kind of him wasn't it? He invited her over, there was a crowd at a home show. I guess that was when she picked out the rooms she wanted to have sex with him in. YIKES! Sorry. I am not going to erase that, I apparently needed to get that out.

It was all GM's fault so my anger at her is often so I am not laying into him again. She is not worth getting angry at, she is most always too drunk or stoned to care. Hopefully after today she will be in jail. Today is her trial for Meth possession.

Your story gives me hope. I have not been one to hold back anything. Perhaps it will be that way with me too.

Thank you!!!
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 09:06 PM
While I don't regret the AOs and DJs, I do feel ashamed of a few things I said to H. I didn't even go to church for a long time afterwards because they were outright cruel.

Meth possession? Nice. smirk Hopefully justice will prevail and the hag will meet some interesting people in jail who don't like her. grin
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Meth possession? Nice. smirk Hopefully justice will prevail and the hag will meet some interesting people in jail who don't like her. grin
Or some REALLY interesting people who DO like her.
You know.
In "that" way.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 09:36 PM
Lol I kinda meant it that way too. It depends on the way you look at it. wink
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/02/09 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
While I don't regret the AOs and DJs, I do feel ashamed of a few things I said to H. I didn't even go to church for a long time afterwards because they were outright cruel


Welllll, me too. I figure after being totally independent and not even knowing I existed for the first 26 1/2 years of our marriage it was about time he heard what I thought of him all those years. It will make the nice me that seems to be coming back seem even nicer. :twobyfour:

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Meth possession? Nice. smirk


She was stoned, drunk and holding a used meth pipe when the cops stopped her. She refused drugs testing so they took her license and now, if she gets it back, she has to spend tons of money to get all the little testing gadgets so she does not drive like that again. That is why she was trying to blackmail GM for more money.

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Hopefully justice will prevail and the hag will meet some interesting people in jail who don't like her. grin

It would save me some time and possible arrest if they took care of that for me now wouldn't it? This old pacifist is not unhappy that she is smiling at the thought, embarrassed maybe but still smiling. naughty

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/04/09 12:34 AM
Schadenfreude!

Guilty 1st count: Drug possession

Guilty 2nd count: DUI

Woman is in serious trouble now. She is undergoing a PSI before sentencing next month. We looked at the criteria for the PSI and she is in trouble now. There is nothing positive to come of that.

Now we await the 3rd attempt at blackmail. If it comes, and I can't imagine it will not, GM will turn it and the other that we still have into the court.

She might just skip the state again but her disability checks would probably stop then. She will have to depend on the mattress now to get all her money and she just ain't that good (I say this knowing she was apparently good enough to do my husband for 6 years dontknow ).

It stuns me knowing GM the way I do that he would have anything at all to do with this woman. We celebrated blush once already. Some things just bring a couple together ya know? grin



Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/07/09 05:50 PM
I am feeling reflective, that is good, but depressed, that seems normal. It is cloudy and the Kansas air is heavy with moisture and the promise of storms, my favorite time of year.

I dunno. I simply do not know what to do or what I will do. I see a man frequently in tears. He seems as remorseful as a person can be. He is getting out from under all his obligations, everything that filled his need for admiration in order to spend the time with me and work on our marriage. He is leading the way here as I am a basket case much of the time. A basket case emotionally but my mind is pretty clear and I do not like what I see.

I think my major confusion comes from wondering why I am still here. This is not like me, to stay with someone who has done this kind of thing. Actually I am the one who would be most likely to have had the affair, he had no reason to treat me this way and do what he did except ego, entitlement and the need to thrill seek. I was there, I was everything a wife should be, I had his children and raised them into two very successful, wonderful human beings. I did everything and continued to woo him until it was apparent he was not home, ever, even when he was. I still tried, constantly looking for the hook to bring him back to me. I considered myself a failure, I hated myself. I was everything my parents had told me, a nothing and worthless. Eventually I did learn to live my own life. I was reluctant to do it because I wanted to be married to him, not live an independent life. I became successful at what I did. Then I started to not really care too much what he was up to. I was too busy with children and everything I made for myself to keep busy and interested. Still I tried, every few weeks I would do something to see if I could get a reaction, any reaction. Mostly he would be angry, that was OK, it was something. God I see now what a pitiful mess I had become. He did not know that, he did not see me. I knew what he was doing but did not know what he was up to. I knew but was afraid to really know. I WANTED to be married, I WANTED to be married to him because the man I married existed to everyone else. What did I do wrong? Why was I not good enough?

OK, this is not what I intended to write.....back to what I started to write.

I have figured out many things about myself since D day thanks to this forum, SSA, Steve Harley and Pepperband in particular who has poked and prodded me through this (I thank you so much for that) and I thank you all. I have figured out the real source of my confusion (as if all of the above and the rest of the story was not enough). I am devastated as you all are. My love light went out a long time ago with no hope of recovery and I was biding my time. The reassurances that I was the only one, I was loved, we were OK kept me hoping and now I find all of this out, he was living his life with someone else the same time he was telling me these things and keeping me on the hook. So on top of it my entire married life has been one big lie. I have trouble even looking at baby pictures now and the hours of video tape will probably remain in a box since I can't even stand the thought of putting myself through them. So on D day I find myself in the interesting position of having and amazingly remorseful WH. He is working his rear end off trying to make this work doing everything right. He says the old WH is dead and I think that is true. He treats me like a queen and seems interested in every thing about me. I am now his life. So, what to do? I have a plan with Steve. It is a lovely plan, it makes sense and I think it just might work in the long run but why am I still here? That does not help my self esteem at all, to be still here crying and acting out and yelling until my head hurts. I am over medicated and still going through the worst pain I have ever felt. Why am I putting myself through this after all? I do not need him. I am not afraid of being alone, I have been alone my entire married life. I can pay bills, keep up this farm alone etc. I have been doing that my entire married life. I do not need this pain. I do not really need this man.

How does a person decide what to do? I finally have a marriage! He loves me! He treats me like I always expected to be treated! He is interested in me! I come first! He is stopping his life to be with me and make one for us! I finally have what I married him for so what do I do now? This question is the big one for me. As I set very strict boundaries for WH to follow, with the knowledge that I will throw him out if he crosses them, I feel more secure. More secure in myself. What is the place that I am in right now? Is this a typical place that I just have not figured out? I have what I always wanted but do I still? Yes. Should I? No. Do I know? No.

I do know that this is my last chance for marriage or any relationship for that matter. If this does not work out I will be content with my children and hopefully grands someday and content to be by myself. I will never risk this kind of pain again. Can I live with knowing I failed this? There can't be a good feeling in the world worth this kind of risk and pain. One last chance.....

OK, I feel like a whiny baby. I AM a whiny baby. A big, 55 year old, whiny baby. Attractive :RollieEyes:. Can someone tell me what it is I am missing or not figuring out? I think if I can find out I can move on some way or another. :twobyfour:

This rollercoaster is a white knuckle ride for sure.

Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/07/09 07:30 PM


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I think my major confusion comes from wondering why I am still here.


Dances_with_goats, you inadvertently answered your question.

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I was everything my parents had told me, a nothing and worthless.

You were never good enough and never perfect enough to please your parents.
Soooooooooooo - you marry a hard target, a narcissistic difficult man, because if one thing is going to change your parents' voices inside your head that scream "failure failure failure" .... it is winning over an impossible man.

I could be wrong, but it seems you are "still here" in order to prove your parents were wrong.

Maybe? maybe not? maybe I'm full of crap today
flirt (won't be the first time either)
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/07/09 07:57 PM
I would agree except that I long ago dealt with that issue. They have both been gone a long time. The very first MC that GM and I went to ended up doing a lot for me (GM paid little attention to him) and that was one of the issues we ended, my feeling the way they wanted me to feel. Except for the ego GM was actually not like that at all until we married. He was seriously the nicest most supportive man I have ever known. Soooo, while there is probably some merit to what you say it can't be all or even much of it (I hope). I have been in treatment for my abusive childhood for a long time and I have pretty much been able to let it go with help of meds for the PTSD.

Nah, you are not full of crap. It makes perfect sense but not as much as you would think this time.

I hate these down times. It will course back up pretty soon. Thanks! kiss
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/07/09 08:03 PM
Sadsosad, I think you said that your husband had not been diagnosed with a character disorder. Did they base this on interviewing him or did they interview people that he interacted with? If that diagnosis was only based on interviewing him, well, it wouldn't take much for an intelligent person, especially one in the medical field, to easily get up to speed on what the psychiatrist would be looking for in order to avoid that diagnosis.

Are you familiar with the Psychopathy Checklist by Dr. Robert Hare? It is now believed by some that as much as 4% of the population could be diagnosed as a psychopath. Before you freak out, they are not talking about Ted Bundy types, but people who have no empathy or conscience. I think that if (and of course it's a big if) your husband had no empathy or conscience, it would explain why your marriage has been so horrible--there was never anything you ever could have done.

Some of the red flags that your husband shows:
1. risk taking behavior--the hookers, the STD (a DOCTOR who catches gonorrhea!), the drugs
2. possible cover up--the "breakdown" when you were about to totally bust him, the tears
3. marrying someone very empathic (you're a nurse, if I'm not mistaken)

If you are at all interested in pursuing this, I can give you the titles of some books on the topic that were really illuminating to me. The 4% psycho hypothesis really helped to explain a lot of other people's behaviors that were making me crazy!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/07/09 08:35 PM
Hi Nano and thanks.

Well, he was not diagnosed with a character disorder, you are correct. I do worry about this. A lot in fact. He is being seen and taking meds for depression. Even with that I have seen such a change in him. If he had not previously been so good at deceiving I would not hesitate to believe it is all real.

What we have come to learn through the appointments and his therapist makes perfect sense. I can see it, always have. I know when he is getting that way, I can read him like a book now that I know there was a behavior other than the drugs that followed. Steve requested he draw up several lists of EP's, one dealing with his tells. Part of it was for me to be aware and stop him when it happens. I hope this makes sense. **the weather radio just went off and I have a son on the road coming to visit and it unnerves me when there are storms this time of year and they are not home safe** The EP list covers the risk taking as well as the compulsive behavior.

As far as empathy and conscience goes I can vouch for the empathy. He is very empathetic, just not with me for some reason. I saw it before we married directed at me but after we married it was gone. He has remained a very kind, empathetic person in every way except with me. The conscience.....well yes I think he does have one but he easily puts it away.

Yes I am a nurse. Good memory!

I will be interested in pursuing this possibly later once I can get back on my own feet and think clearly. I really appreciate your help. I would have thought that at this point I would have a better handle on myself. I guess that comes at some point smile.
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/07/09 09:28 PM
Best of luck working through this, sadsosad--be sure and let me know when you are ready for those book titles. And I may be totally off--as a mystery writer I fully admit to having an overactive imagination and fascination with the darker side of human psychology!
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/07/09 11:19 PM
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I do know that this is my last chance for marriage or any relationship for that matter. If this does not work out I will be content with my children and hopefully grands someday and content to be by myself. I will never risk this kind of pain again. Can I live with knowing I failed this? There can't be a good feeling in the world worth this kind of risk and pain. One last chance.....
I think it is a lot simpler than you think, sss. You have contented yourself for 26 years of existing in a marriage by yourself. The reality of what you have recently learned and were forced to FACE leaves you fearing ever loving again. You feel yourself on the brink of getting what you always thought you wanted from your husband and that scares you. Do you want, can you, will you actually be able to open yourself up to intimacy? I think part of you wants the life you have, minus the betraya, with a real partner and part of you wants to continue to live your own life without the risk of letting someone inside. My fear for you is if you continue to work on recovery and he fails you again, can you survive?

I think you need to take your time before you decide either way. He has had 26 years to do this to you, don't rush your decision now.

BTW, you did not fail. You held up your end. He was the one who failed. I think he would agree with me.

You are on a roller coaster of emotions. Who wouldn't be? 26 years of betrayal and being ignored is more than most could imagine much less survive.
Posted By: Stellakat Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/08/09 10:25 PM
Hi SSS. I have a question for you. What is the reason GM, now, all of a sudden, seems to want to "go straight" and give up the prostitutes, etc.

WHY...NOW??????

1. Does he have cancer and wants you to care for him?
2. Does he have diabetes and has realized his mortality?
3. Is he getting old and does not want to die alone?
4. Is he too old and tired to "cat around" anymore?
5. Did he have a loss of income and cannot afford prostitutes or supporting a mistress?
6. Does he have worsening ED and can't get erections for other women anymore?
7. Is it his pride?
8. Did he have a religious conversion experiance?
9. What is the real reason he wants to attempt to change his life NOW> All of a sudden?.


I want to know why NOW of all times, is he saying he will give up on all the OW and the prostitutes when he has done it your whole marriage!!!???

WHY NOW!!!!????

If I were you I would get to the bottom of it and find out his reasoning. Otherwise your risk is that he will continue the affair behavior and you will lose out again. I feel there is some reason for this to all come out NOW. It would be nice if you knew the reason.
Posted By: johnstwin Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 01:32 AM
Hi sss-

I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking about you.
I don't have anything to add but I do agree with those who say to not make any decisions right now. You are in a maelstrom and it will take some time before the "noise" and "chaos" settle down enough to see clearly.

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**the weather radio just went off and I have a son on the road coming to visit and it unnerves me when there are storms this time of year and they are not home safe*


I hope your son arrived okay. My OS is traveling back to his college after visiting for the week-end and our mountain passes have been dicey. We had snow here in the western part of Washington A.C. (above California) which is rare any time of year, but very rare for March, so I was concerned. Especially after hearing that the pass going the other direction had been shut down due to an accident.

He just called and let me know that the skies were clear as he got over the pass. My relief was EPIC! Thank goodness I gave him a bluetooth.

So, I completely understand.

((sss))
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 02:35 PM
Thank you for your reply.

You are correct. The big question is if I can be intimate again and if I really want to be intimate with GM. It certainly bought me a lot of years of pain the first time.

I do know this, if it is not possible with GM there will never be another chance that I will take. The thought of that is sad to be sure but not at all scary. I could live that way, I have lived that way all my life, so it would not be impossible.

As I look back I can't honestly say that I own much, if any, of this nasty mess. Searching my heart and mind I can't see much I did wrong. Neither can GM so I guess I did not fail. I hope I am not failing by not seeing my part in this. I just tried too hard for too long to be guilty of much except perhaps changing my way of relating to him as mother rather than wife and being crankier than I ever wanted to be.

The more I think about it, I was not a failure but certainly pretty darned stupid. Every time he walked through the door it was a new start for me, new hope. Every day for 26 years. You would have thought that first anvil that he dropped on me would have stopped that. :RollieEyes: What a maroon! :RollieEyes:
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 02:52 PM
The "NOW" part is easy StellaKat. He got caught. I finally had proof in my grubby little hand and when confronted he got scared. I followed my confrontation by throwing him out of the house. He knew how much he had done over the years (at that time all I knew was he had slept with this woman once a long time ago when he had actually crawled out of her bed when I called), he knew I would drag that all out of him eventually so he knew it was over. He looked at the "sweet thing" he had been loving for 6 years and it shook him when he saw what she really was. In other words, reality bites. His fantasy world crashed in about 2 days time, totally crashed. In his fantasy I was content to be alone 24 hours a day, never wanted sex, and was a meanie. His "love" was a low life alcoholic, druggie, criminal and a prostitute. He realized all at once that he had created that reality for us and I was no different than the woman he married, loving and sweet and alive AND oddly still interested in sex. His ego, thrill seeking and entitlement had destroyed the one thing he wanted. He got mad when I called him on his BS all those many years ago so he made me the "bad guy" and played his lovely little fantasy based on getting it over on me and getting what he wanted because he deserved everything he wanted.

He is still all about himself. That is not good for me but really, there is a LOT to confront there and a LOT LOT LOT of pain now that he sees what he has done. I can wait longer for him to snap out of that. I am seeing it happen but it is a slow process. I have nothing but time and my own grief to work out.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
As I look back I can't honestly say that I own much, if any, of this nasty mess. Searching my heart and mind I can't see much I did wrong. Neither can GM so I guess I did not fail. I hope I am not failing by not seeing my part in this. I just tried too hard for too long to be guilty of much except perhaps changing my way of relating to him as mother rather than wife and being crankier than I ever wanted to be.

I hear ya sss. Sure I wasn't the perfect wife but the way FWH exaggerated stupid stuff, has/had poor coping skills, and is needier than me gave me pause about whether or not I could stay married to him. If FWH could stray when things weren't really THAT bad then what's going to keep him faithful going forward? I know his choice to have an A was selfish, thoughtless and all the rest but I'd be a fool to ignore this notion. The only promising thing for me is that FWH readily admits he took me for granted for years and has owned up to his selfishness.

FWH is proving himself to be the man I can be proud of. I hope GM can do that for you.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:03 PM
Hi johnstwin!

Thank you for posting this. I am glad your son made it OK, mine did too hurray. There is nothing worse than sending them off like that. Even though both of mine live only 65 miles away, for now anyway, and Kansas is usually pretty safe and flat to drive in I still ask them to call or text me when they arrive home. They do, sweet young men that they are grin I am NOT a fan of mountain passes so your post made me a little green in the face. YIKES! I do love your state, it is lovely. Traveled over a lot of it and will be going back someday because there is so much to see and we do have friends there now.

Thanks for your support and hug. It means a lot. I am changing my mind so often these days that I do have to wait, probably for quite a while before I can process enough to make any kind of decision. I wish I had known about this place before we had gone through 3 months of this. It might have shortened it a bit but back then I committed myself to a year before I made any kind of decision so....................

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:14 PM
black_raven! It seems we have a similar position here, probably there are a lot of us like this.

Trust. Can that ever be built on a history like that? Yes, that is exactly the question...can you ever trust someone who would do what they did when things were good or at least not that bad?

I am glad your FWH is owning up to all of this. GM is too but it is new and slow. I am so happy for you that your FWH is proving himself as a man to be proud of. You have no idea how that made me smile. I am shooting for that and so is GM.

Thanks. smile
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:28 PM
We are in for an interesting day.

A while ago one of the small diamonds in my wedding ring fell out. We took it in eventually and it is now ready to pick up. While we were there GM saw a ring he really liked. Now this man had a wedding ring. I was poor and saved up to buy him the best ring I could afford when we got married. Certainly it was not up to the family standards, the jewlery store we are going to is owned by his family and it is much more than anything I would ever have reason to even enter. He wore it about 2 weeks then took it off. It bothered him. There were tons of reasons it bothered him, half of them made no sense at all. I would guess that in 26 years he wore it for about a month total. After Dday he wanted it to wear. He not only can't find it he can't remember what it looked like. His wedding ring, he can't remember what it looked like and it is gone. Broke my heart. So, standing in the store while he tried one on I felt kinda creepy but he wanted it, he is my husband, he was attempting to make a go of this....I bought it for him.

Today I feel rather pressured. I am not at all in the frame of mind to do some kind of romantic thing such as placing it on his finger with a promise. I think I will tell him to wear it if he wants and we can do the real thing if we get to that point. He is very excited and I do not want to hurt him but... Go figure.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:30 PM
sss-

hi again - your life sound like my life- we both have spouses with multiple As and for long amounts of time - and we are both impatient to see more change in our Hs.

i am starting to accept that change is slow for both of us- and that i can not speed up his change - but only make it slower by my LBing him. this shocks him back into being defensive.

so even though we have every right to demand certain things- by doing that- we are actually chasing the behaviors we want away!

we keep needing to look at ourselves and see where we want to grow. what will we gain from this experience??

will it leave us bitter and angry??

or will we emerge as new people- stronger and wiser and happier?

just as it was easier after d-day to be so angry at the OW - instead of experiencing the pain of the betrayal of our Hs, now it is so much easier for us to look at our H and see what HE needs to change - instead of looking at ourselves and seeing what we need to change.

this is a daily struggle for me- i waffle everyday on whether it is worth it to stay or not.. worth the risks of being hurt again-but each experience we have has been brought to us -- to learn a life lesson.

what lessons have we learned??

sf
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:38 PM
Sadsosad, first of all, never go to Vegas! Your marriage shows that you work far too hard for far too little payoff-lol! I don't mean to sound mean; I think you are a very nice person, but you must stay away from jerks because you don't seem to have much defense against them.

Because let me see if I have this timeline right:
Six months (?) of "wonderful man" (premarriage investment to "get" you)
27 years of spouse from hell
Two months of "wonderful man" (when his heinie gets busted)

I don't believe that he's a great guy who got bad advice from his father and became a bad person (but only to you!) for the next 27 years until he miraculously "saw the light" and became a great guy again. I also don't believe that you are the only person he has treated badly. Start talking to people from his past, especially those who for some reason no longer associate with him. I would bet money you will discover that your gut is steering you in the right direction.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:44 PM
SMACK! Well, I needed that I suppose. blush

I gotta run but I did want to tell you I got this and I get it. Thanks. As much as I hate to read things like that I do have to look at them and realize they are worth every effort to think about.

I can tell you that from his past I have heard things about how he was obnoxious because he had no boundaries but I have never heard anyone say anything really bad about him other than that. He seems to have been well liked by most people he has had contact with. I will not forget what you have said, it is important.

PS

I got killed in Vegas

big surprise faint

EDIT: I have more to answer you but it will have to wait. You make some interesting points and I want to address them.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Today I feel rather pressured. I am not at all in the frame of mind to do some kind of romantic thing such as placing it on his finger with a promise. I think I will tell him to wear it if he wants and we can do the real thing if we get to that point. He is very excited and I do not want to hurt him but... Go figure.

If you aren't feeling it, then don't do it. My FWH was ready to renew vows and get new rings for us several months after Dday but I was not feeling it. It would have been phony for me to have played along just so FWH felt better. I told him no, but also explained that one day I hoped we'd do the vow renewal. I want to forgive FWH before that day and overcome the resentment so that it really would be a sign of a new beginning once we've healed ourselves. I didn't want to enter the "new marriage" feeling anger and resentment almost every day. I didn't want to hurt FWH either but he understood.

Be honest with GM. Don't stuff your feelings. Expecting that from you so soon is too much IMO.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Today I feel rather pressured.

Listen to your gut!
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 04:02 PM
sss-
i thought that the world loved my H. that he was charismatic and charming. he was promoted to the top of his dept at work and seemed very popular. he had many friends in our community.

now i know the TRUTH. of course, many people wouldnt tell me , bc i was his wife and why would they tell me that they thought my H was an obnoxious, teasing, flirting egomaniac???

now - my closest friends have told me that all along people have been saying - "whats up with that guy?"

and the people he was friends with in our community - people like him - w/o boundaries.

my H would actually go into people's houses and see some possession they had that he liked and ask them if he could have it!!! and many people gave things to him. this used to make me sick. after d-day, he returned all of those things.

so while you may think your H was well - liked - i am sure that the normal people saw him for who he was and didnt like him, they just couldnt tell you.

it turns out that when my H was forced to leave his job, where he was supposedly so well-liked, i heard from someone who knew someone who worked in his dept, thta the people there cheered that he was forced to leave.

no one would tell him to his face.

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 05:08 PM
We have not left yet, still doing chores!

I am going to take GM's computer and the wireless so I can stay on while we drive the hour and a half to get where we are going. Geeky? Oh well. All of the help here means a great deal to me and I hate having to wait to respond.

I will return and thanks so much! I really appreciate all of the conversation here. As you know well, this is all so complicated on top of emotionally draining, so when I feel up to really dealing I don't want to stop. I know the time is coming when I am going to hermit myself and not want to deal for a week or more.

Back later....
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 06:00 PM
SSS, thank you for your sweet response--that really means a lot to me. Your great attitude is going to help you through this.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 07:44 PM
Quote
so even though we have every right to demand certain things- by doing that- we are actually chasing the behaviors we want away!

Yup, it is entitlement. We ARE entitled to be angry and we feel entitled to LB all over the place. We are but it gets in the way and for me it causes an emotional intoxication. It is unfair to have to hold it back but it is the way it is. To move forward we have to do it without the LB's. All this was explained to me by Steve more than one time because this is very difficult for me. There are days that the only thing I want to say to GM is an LB. There are ways to say what you want to say without the LB's thankfully but I did not really realize that for a while.

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will it leave us bitter and angry??

or will we emerge as new people- stronger and wiser and happier?

Those are the million dollar questions aren't they? I wish I knew. I know what I want it to be but what it is may be different than that.

I waffle every day too. It is the rollercoaster and it is an awful ride. Not for the weak, that is certain.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 07:54 PM
Black_Raven

I told him that I was not going to do the big deal ring thing. He was fine with it and says that he understands. Like your FWH, GM very quickly suggested we renew our vows. What vows? He let his nasty father write our ceremony, there was no way I could do anything about it (I was definitely too cowardly and it all came up at the very end when I had too many things to do). There were no vows and frankly I don't remember my wedding at all, it was taken over by his family in the last week of planning and changed into something I did not recognize. Beside the point, sorry, I have so many issues with this marriage that I can't quite get past. In the scheme of things these are very small issues now.

No renewal until I am ready, if I am ready. No ring thing until I am ready, if I am ready. I do nothing unless I am ready. That cowardly young woman is no longer afraid and I do have the right to follow my own Muse and emotion here and that is exactly what I am going to do. It is my turn to make decisions, his obviously stunk. Even though we do not really know how to do this yet we are trying to follow the POJA. We have no agreement yet on any of those things so they are out for now.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 07:55 PM
Pepperband

Doin it. I trust my gut. I learned that from Stephan Colbert. smirk
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 07:57 PM
To Nano and SunFlower

This typing in the car is kinda awful. I will answer you later when we get back.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 08:21 PM
PEPPERBAND!!

Still in the car and a bit queasy but I just had a revelation I need to share with you. Way back in an old post you were talking about being a Pollyanna. I was being quiet and reflective just now and I realized that each and every time GM walked in the room or in the house for 26 years I was hopeful. Even when I knew he was leaving to see someone else (I just KNEW it) I would cry when his car went down the road but when he came home that old hope would rise in me. Talk about Pollyanna. I was blowing sunshine up my own a**! OK, maybe it was plain old stupidity but I prefer Pollyanna, OK?

Made me chuckle, thought I would share.
Posted By: Stellakat Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 08:58 PM
Hi Honey, I give you total credit for finally confronting the issues of his other women to him.

You may want to figure out why NOW did you have the strength to confront him. What reasons caused you to face this difficult thing,,,,NOW.

Was it:

Strength
God
You no longer cared
You grew up
You had some guts from somewhere
You finally felt like you could live without him if it came to that
Love of yourself and your family
Anger at what he did
Realization that you are precious


If you found out what made you finally confront him maybe you could see how to go forward on this.

Thank you for not lying to yourself any more!

Remember: You are precious.


Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/09/09 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Made me chuckle, thought I would share.

ahhhhhhhhhhhh

the sunshine enema of yesterdays grin
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 12:50 AM
The first thought that came into my mind when I read your post
Quote
the sunshine enema of yesterdays
was "You Are The Sunshine Of My Life". Stevie Wonder would faint.

I am still laughing!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 01:06 AM
StellaKat

I am going to take some time to answer you. I have some idea but I don't want to answer until I can do it with a lot of thought.

Thank you. You have an interesting way of getting people to think and I have not always appreciated it but it is good and I think I now understand you better and can appreciate your posts. Oddly GM is not quite so happy with you, go figure rotflmao . Thanks. We all need to be called out now and then. You are an equal opportunity caller outer wink.

BTW, he is trying. I don't think he writes with his heart. I have been thinking about compiling a list of things that have changed since we started all of this. It might make things more understandable and it would be good to get input from everyone.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 04:58 AM
I am back Stella with some answers I think. These may take a while, I think the answers are important so I may be back with better thought out answers in a few days.

Quote
Hi Honey, I give you total credit for finally confronting the issues of his other women to him.

Thank you. That means a lot to me.

Quote
You may want to figure out why NOW did you have the strength to confront him. What reasons caused you to face this difficult thing,,,,NOW.

Like I said before, I confronted the entire time we were married. He was so reassuring or else he told me I was just making trouble or that he could not be expected to be different, I was being childish. It was not until October that I had proof and I called him 20 minutes after I found it after I gathered my thoughts and courage.

Quote
Was it:

Strength
Yes in part but I always had that just not enough proof, nothing I could really nail him on except rumor and suspicion.

Quote
God
Well I would like to think so. I do not attend church, well I have started since GM has begun to see the need for it. I was raised with a church and spent much time looking around for one I felt comfortable in. I actually think I incorporated much of it in my soul so long ago that I feel best out on my farm just talking to God myself. Jesus is also a big part of my life but I really keep that personal, that is how it feels best to me. I guess I would have to answer yes because Jesus is my moral guide.
Quote
You no longer cared
I always cared
Quote
You grew up
I was out from under the threat from his father so perhaps. I should never have let him bully me like he did. He never did get from me what he really wanted so in some ways I did win that one. What a completely terrible man he was.
Quote
You had some guts from somewhere
I always had guts. I confronted him about his drug abuse and that was very difficult. I have always stood up to him, never let him bully me but he did lie. I think calling him on his BS did not endear me to him.
Quote
You finally felt like you could live without him if it came to that
I have felt like that for 5 years since our youngest left for college. After that I was ready. I am not afraid of being alone.
Quote
Love of yourself and your family
Dunno about that one. It was more that I did not care for being thought of as stupid. My family is only GM and my two DS's, everyone else is dead. (hmmmm, did not consider that as a reason for staying before) I think my sons could have done without this trauma but they have handled it very well.
Quote
Anger at what he did
Oh baby, I have been angry my entire marriage, another not so endearing quality but one that I needed to survive him. What he did causes in me something I can't even describe. Anger barely touches it.
Quote
Realization that you are precious
Nah but that is a nice thought.

Quote
If you found out what made you finally confront him maybe you could see how to go forward on this.
I think you may be right. I will give this a great deal of thought. It may take a quite a while to figure that out but I will think about it. There must be more than just the fact that I finally had proof. When I confronted all those times before I could have been less willing to back down I suppose. I will think about this.

Quote
Thank you for not lying to yourself any more!

Remember: You are precious.

Thank you my dear! I have been telling people that all my life and it is about time someone realized it besides me! kiss


Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 07:02 AM
Here's another sunshine enema for you
-not-

I noticed GM wrote about becoming/being a "new man".

I heard this from H as well, about 2 weeks after D day. I thought "Oh sure .... :RollieEyes: right :RollieEyes: .... like I am supposed to believe you :RollieEyes: and celebrate this newness crazy ."

Well, the years rolled by, and in my H's case, it turned out to be true.

However, what GM does not realize is that SSS is now becoming a new woman herself. The dynamics are going to be different. And that is not a reality that is easily accepted.

The old system is broken. Completely broken.

GM has said really nice things about you. Chief among your glowing attributes is (drum roll) your sweet disposition (Hey Pollyanna, come out and play).

Oh, that's just GREAT, he now appreciates the Pollyanna , now that you've locked her up in the wood shed and told her to shut up and get real.

The woman GM thinks he loves is changing. Some of the things he's loved about you are no longer valid in the emerging marriage dynamic.

I'm telling you Goat_Dancer, you are not going to be "good old SSS" anymore. GM says he loves you, but will he be able to love the NEW you? He's not even thinking about your changes when he says "I'm a changed man."

One thing I don't know if I told you about myself. My H is an alcoholic. He started AA right after D day. I encouraged him to go to AA (read: insisted *wink * wink).

What I did not expect is how much my H's sobriety changed our dynamic.
I was no longer left along to make the major decisions! (What'da'hail?) My SOBER H wanted to participate :MrEEk: :MrEEk: :MrEEk:

I did not like that !! I swear to God, I resented AA after he was going for 6 months. My H became "a new man" and started voicing his opinions !!!! (What'da'hail?) :MrEEk: :MrEEk: :MrEEk:

I was no longer sweet.
I was no longer giving the benefit of the doubt.
I had become a major pain in the butt.
I frankly did not put much effort into the marriage for a few years.


There was a bit of a power struggle. The "new husband" wanted to take over more and manage our lives, and I did not trust him enough to let go of the power.

Recovery is HARD.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 04:47 PM
Quote
Oh, that's just GREAT, he now appreciates the Pollyanna , now that you've locked her up in the wood shed and told her to shut up and get real.

BUT BUT BUT..........I LIKED Pollyanna!<---is supposed to be red. ????
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Goat_Dancer

rotflmao

I agree that GM doesn't realize that sss will change from all this too. Maybe I'm just the oddball but I kind of seeing the positive in GM's posts... :MrEEk: faint crazy My FWH didn't have 26 yrs of cheating or hookers in his A, but there are some similiarities I see in their behavior post D-day. Just shoot me already LOL.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 05:10 PM
I know I have given this a little thought because I have mentioned it before to GM but it stopped there, there are too many other things going on right now.

I can take some time to think about it now that you bring it back to my mind. Man oh man.

Just putting this out there........

GM never paid me much mind. We get along and have always gotten along very well in most circumstances. On vacations we would plan no plans and just fend for ourselves (before kids and once after when they were older) and did just great flying by whatever our minds came up with. Every day life however he hid away from me. I doubt there was ever a time that he spent more than 15 minutes talking to me a day unless he was stuck with me in a car. The last 6 years he withdrew completely. I was getting maybe a minute and a half a day the last two and a half years (the years he was in love with her). Usually the same 3 sentences and the rest of the time he was gone or up in his office only coming down to leave and he did not come to bed until after 2AM when I was long asleep or after he had snuck out to go see her again that day. SO...I contend that GM did not even know me. He turned and walked away while I was trying to talk to him, he wanted nothing to do with me. He walked out the door if I tried to discuss my discontent and left to who knows where (I'll bet I know where).

His changes are allowing me for the first time to feel like a real human being in my own home and my own marriage (I am actually his wife, who knew?).

Yes, it will be hard. I am certain there are problems ahead that I can't even fathom right now but I wondered about this. It may be that most couples experienced the same kind of life before the A was exposed and this means nothing different at all.

EDIT: I just realized that another change will be the addition of intimacy if we are able to get through this. That too will change things in ways I can't even anticipate because he has never been intimate(other than sexually) with me.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 05:15 PM
I don't know about your FWH but GM has been a GOD for so long (the Doctor/Alan Watts philosophy/his father) that the changes I see are just short of miraculous. Now, if I can trust them. Now, if they are real. That is my biggest worry, will I know or will I be oblivious?
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 06:51 PM
That is my biggest worry, will I know or will I be oblivious?

Hon, you do know.

If GM was your son-in-law, what would you be advising your daughter to do?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/10/09 10:50 PM
Probably not advise her. I would listen lots and give suggestions, toss out plans or ideas and situations and let her make up her own mind about it. Really.

I would be offended if my mother(long dead) or a friend or other relative tried to tell me what to do about something so personal as my marriage, such as it is. Maybe that is just me, dunno.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 06:48 PM
SSS -

Have you checked out the RecoveryNation spouses' site?

I really think hubby may be a SA.

A lot of addicts find themselves as addicts because they've lost a control component in their life and they find SOMETHING that they CAN control and fixate on it. A person who suffers emotional/physical abuse WILL usually try to find something that they CAN control and because they want to overcompensate for the pain, the abuse; whatever it is that gives them relief. Food, sex, drugs, alcohol etc. When someone is hurt and in pain, the human being in them wants to find a fix. And alot of times its not a 'healthy' fix. How many times have you heard of a bulimic who suffered 'other' abuse and felt so out of control, they found that food is something they can control. And control it, they do!

Us humans have a desire to stay in control and fix our pains. When control is 'taken' from us or someone 'hurts' us, even as a child, we seek out comfort. And sometimes the brain disconnects and self-preservation is paramount and our comfort fix is destructive. And we set 'patterns' that follow us for a life.

Id say that somewhere, somehow and to some degree, GM has suffered some pain/loss of control at some point in his life. Probably when he was young and didnt have the tools to 'fix' whatever issue it was. Maybe an over controlling parent. An absent parent (emotionally/physically)Maybe he witnessed violence or abuse. Or was victimized himself. He learned to 'fix' himself thru self-gratification. And when a stressor pops up in life, he reverts to his old comforts.

When an alcoholic is feeling down-they reach for a drink. When a drug addict is feeling bad-they reach for their drug. When a sex addict is feeling down, they reach for their fix. They dont want to reach for their destructive fix but its the ONLY way they know to solve their feelings. And their issue is finding NEW and healthy ways to comfort themselves.

Ive dealt with an addict. Eventually, hopefully you can separate the addict from his addiction. You will never be able to fix an addict---but you CAN help fix a person that SUFFERS from an addiction. When a person can learn to fix THEMSELVES, the addiction can be solved. Focus on the PERSON who needs fixing. GM will have to find a way to fix HIMSELF and the addiction can be controlled. His BRAIN is the part that needs the fixing and the rest can fall into place. Also, I found that getting mad at the addiction was more productive than getting mad at the person! GM may feel like we're attacking HIM when itd be better if we attacked his PROBLEM. Attack the sex addiction, not GM personally.

Of course, I STILL don't have my psychiatry credentials.

HUGS to you and GM.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 09:49 PM
Hey there believer!

You know, I still do not believe GM is a SA. He is def an addict but I think it was not the sex (I know that sounds crazy). I think it was getting back at me in a way he knew would hurt me badly and I think the addiction was basically an addiction to thrill seeking. The other thought I have is that it was a lot about power. He comes from a family where the man is unquestionably right always and then he married me (what a dumb thing to do). I may sound like a dumb pushover here but IRL I am anything but. It took very little time of me calling him on his world famous BS before he was out looking for someone else who would not even try have a say. What better than prostitutes to fulfill all those needs all at once? I think knowing his background I must have made him feel small and inadequate to daddy when he could not control me. I don't know why, he father did not have any luck controlling me either and that is why he absolutely HATED me.

I don't have my credentials either BTW but having lived through this I think all of these things are possible.

Whatever the reason behind it all I am so very worried that there will be no recovering this marriage. I, of course, am up and down riding this relentless rollercoaster. I can change my mind on wanting to or just walking away in 10 minutes time. 6 months is coming soon, maybe I will settle a bit after that. I am sick to death of this being my life, that I do know.
Posted By: Aphelion Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 09:53 PM
He's not going to change, you know. What are you waiting for?
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 09:58 PM
Risk taking or thrill seeking fit the pattern of a SA.

The National Council on Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity has defined sexual addiction as ā€œengaging in persistent and escalating patterns of sexual behavior acted out despite increasing negative consequences to self and others.ā€ In other words, a sex addict will continue to engage in certain sexual behaviors despite facing potential health risks, financial problems, shattered relationships or even arrest.

Sexual addiction is best described as a progressive intimacy disorder characterized by compulsive sexual thoughts and acts. Like all addictions, its negative impact on the addict and on family members increases as the disorder progresses. Over time, the addict usually has to intensify the addictive behavior to achieve the same results.

The key word is "compulsive". SAs will escalate over time as the addict needs to get the same high every time; just like drug addicts.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 10:12 PM
Very good question.

Here is where I am. He has made a huge change, been hospitalized because he lost it after he finally puked it all up. He has been working as hard as I have ever seen anyone work on a relationship. I am willing to give it some time in hopes (I am not unaware how distant those chances are) that it is a true change. I am not in a hurry to have him leave at the moment.

For now I have a relationship with sex, affection and conversation, three things I never had much of. I can live with that for now as long as he is not cheating and he can't be, he is either with me or with 2 friends who are watching him for me. I have learned to compartmentalize the sex. It sounds rotten but I can't afford to have it affect me as emotionally as it should. Maybe it never will, I don't know yet.

I have a friend living with us right now while he does business here in town. He is my friend first and a fast friend. He is livid at GM for what he has done. He lived with us last year at this time and was stunned at how I was having to live in my marriage. He has been angry since then. This man is not averse to fighting with his fists and he has been very tempted as he has been witness to some of the nastiness here as GM finally came clean. In my whole time with GM I have never seen him accept any correction, accusation or bad mouthing. He sat down like a defeated puppy and let it all go. My friend has given him no quarter and all GM can do is get weepy and agree. This is a very proud man who is finding out and accepting that he had little or nothing to really be proud of. He has seen the change and thinks GM has really made the needed switch in his mind. I hope that helps to understand a little.

Probably this is really dumb but it seems right for me at the moment.
Posted By: Aphelion Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 10:20 PM
Quote
Probably this is really dumb but it seems right for me at the moment.


Not dumb at all. Not necessarily, anyway. Many have been where you are now. Some of us understand exactly.

Have concrete plans to deal with the various negative eventualities though.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 10:30 PM
Thanks, I will do that.

I have been trying to prepare my heart and mind for the eventual fall from grace that I know is coming but do not want to admit is coming (am praying it does not come). The finances are being prepared with a Post nup. I have been dragging my heals on this but I think it is time for me to start some forward movement again. I also am going to do a polygraph. I have really been reluctant to do anything, just part of where I was emotionally.

I am not encouraged by what I read about VLTA's nor should I be. What I read frankly scares the you know what outta me. GM insists he has changed but then when has his reassurance ever meant anything? What a hole they dig for themselves. All I have is the time to watch and see and hopefully at some point I will learn to trust my own judgment again.

Thanks.

PS...I also remember slide rules. Your posts gave that thread an amusing side note for a while. I enjoyed it.
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 10:48 PM
Have concrete plans to deal with the various negative eventualities though.

ITA with Aphelion on this. And since you evidently have reasons for going down this path, may I suggest you figure out a way to align your needs with GM's self-interest because that is the only way you are likely to get them met--sounds snarky, but I am dead serious.

He is still all about "the devil made me do it" and "it was my evil twin" who did those terrible things. Good luck!

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 11:08 PM
Quote
ITA with Aphelion on this. And since you evidently have reasons for going down this path, may I suggest you figure out a way to align your needs with GM's self-interest because that is the only way you are likely to get them met--sounds snarky, but I am dead serious.

Could sound snarky but hey, you all are here giving me many different perspectives I do not have being where I am. How on earth could I be upset by that? I do disagree with you on this part though smile . I understand that it may not last this way but he has become all about me. He is doing his last act tonight as a leader in something he helped bring about. He is sad about it but he is doing it so that he can be with me more and said as he left that this was for us and that there was nothing more important and it was about time he realized that.

Quote
He is still all about "the devil made me do it" and "it was my evil twin" who did those terrible things. Good luck!

Yes, sometimes. He is getting a bit better. Hard for him at 61 to all of a sudden realize that the rest of us are not rotating around him. It has changed rapidly to a point now the rest will come much slower. He has stopped taking my grief and making it all about him. Recent change, not long enough to really think much about it yet but it has been a change.

I think I need smart more than luck and that is why I am here. Keep it coming. Nothing is unusable, nothing is not worth considering at the very least. It will all make a package of some kind in the end.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by believer
SSS -

Have you checked out the RecoveryNation spouses' site?

I really think hubby may be a SA.

A lot of addicts find themselves as addicts because they've lost a control component in their life and they find SOMETHING that they CAN control and fixate on it. A person who suffers emotional/physical abuse WILL usually try to find something that they CAN control and because they want to overcompensate for the pain, the abuse; whatever it is that gives them relief. Food, sex, drugs, alcohol etc. When someone is hurt and in pain, the human being in them wants to find a fix. And alot of times its not a 'healthy' fix. How many times have you heard of a bulimic who suffered 'other' abuse and felt so out of control, they found that food is something they can control. And control it, they do!

Us humans have a desire to stay in control and fix our pains. When control is 'taken' from us or someone 'hurts' us, even as a child, we seek out comfort. And sometimes the brain disconnects and self-preservation is paramount and our comfort fix is destructive. And we set 'patterns' that follow us for a life.

Id say that somewhere, somehow and to some degree, GM has suffered some pain/loss of control at some point in his life. Probably when he was young and didnt have the tools to 'fix' whatever issue it was. Maybe an over controlling parent. An absent parent (emotionally/physically)Maybe he witnessed violence or abuse. Or was victimized himself. He learned to 'fix' himself thru self-gratification. And when a stressor pops up in life, he reverts to his old comforts.

When an alcoholic is feeling down-they reach for a drink. When a drug addict is feeling bad-they reach for their drug. When a sex addict is feeling down, they reach for their fix. They dont want to reach for their destructive fix but its the ONLY way they know to solve their feelings. And their issue is finding NEW and healthy ways to comfort themselves.

Ive dealt with an addict. Eventually, hopefully you can separate the addict from his addiction. You will never be able to fix an addict---but you CAN help fix a person that SUFFERS from an addiction. When a person can learn to fix THEMSELVES, the addiction can be solved. Focus on the PERSON who needs fixing. GM will have to find a way to fix HIMSELF and the addiction can be controlled. His BRAIN is the part that needs the fixing and the rest can fall into place. Also, I found that getting mad at the addiction was more productive than getting mad at the person! GM may feel like we're attacking HIM when itd be better if we attacked his PROBLEM. Attack the sex addiction, not GM personally.

Of course, I STILL don't have my psychiatry credentials.

HUGS to you and GM.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK believer, you have said this before but I was not ready yet to check this out. It sounds very possible. I will check it out. It is almost scary how much this sounds like him. Thanks.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 11:18 PM
Here's a little observation. Just for your eyes only (no one else can read this wink )

In your sig line you call them "hookers".... I noticed GM uses a colloquialism to describe what he's done, calling them "sex workers" .... sounds about as evil as hiring a laundress to clean his boxers, yanno?

This slight "cleaning up" for sake of appearances turned me off, big time puke
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/12/09 11:58 PM
HE DOES!?!?

Oh wow. Talk about trying to make things look better or make himself look better! That is disgusting and that makes me angry. Would not want to offend his sweetie now would he. :RollieEyes:

I know he has said that he lost track of how much money he was giving to his last hooker, the one who was so special they were faithful to each other and were in love, because he thought paying her each time seemed so seedy. So he gave her money for "other" things....a car, part of a trailer so she could move close to us, her cell phone bills for her 25 calls a day with him etc....plus he bought her groceries and all else she needed. Yup, not seedy anymore was it? Just like being married (without the responsibility or bad times or dirty socks and throwing up). Yup, it was special ya know?

Sex workers. Well now that ain't so bad now is it? rant2
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/13/09 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Sex workers. Well now that ain't so bad now is it? rant2

Maybe when she gets of out prison she can get a card board sign and stand at the freeway exit..."I'll 'work' for food." stickout
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/13/09 02:41 AM
She will need a bag over her head. By that time that "rode hard and put away wet" look she has will be a little worse for the wear.

I can't wait for sentencing. I have the site bookmarked and the date circled on my calendar. 1st offense though on both counts so she probably will get away with it.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/14/09 05:19 PM
While reading through another thread I realized that even though GM is working a program, BTW he is doing that very well, he is doing this all for himself. He will go just far enough to keep me from crying or yelling or feeling obviously terrible but that is where it stops. Those things make him uncomfortable so they are important for him to try to make them stop. He is working at this but the motivation is all about him still. I am so thankful that he even speaks to me daily now that that tiny bit fills me up and I fail to see how pitiful it really is. I just mentioned that to him and he is upset now (so?) but he wants me to tell him how to do this? I am now officially resigning as his Mommy. I told him that no matter how badly he feels he is treated here, no matter how many "issues" and "agendas" and how much "bitterness" he sees as the reason he is not welcomed with understanding and love he still needs to be here and read, read and read some more. And post, he needs to keep posting. Y'all just don't understand him. cry Y'all get his BS and toss it back and slowly I realize that I have only one boundary set for him and that is that he never cheats again. It is a big one for sure but that is only one. I see more now the direction I need to head. Steve is helping with plans and direction to make the marriage work, to help us to love each other again (gonna take GM a while to fill the nuclear crater he has left in my life). Still, without full surrender to me or God or whatever he chooses to surrender to that is honorable it will never really be good enough. This is going to take years and years. I see what you mean now. Am I really this slow to get it? I feel like I am foggier than GM ever was (is?). What a mess this is to navigate! This is NOT what I wanted to be doing with my life. He broke it. We both have to fix it but he first has to make it right and make me OK by healing me and making it safe. Only then will I spend the rest of my life devoted to making this work.

Any suggestions?

I would have taken what I could get, a few sentences a day would have been far more than I was getting, and been happy with that and never known how much there really is out there to be had. I demand that the rest of my life be filled with the kind of love and relationship this site supports.

One other thing. I never did the big exposure thing, we were already months into this when I found this site. He told our kids because he had to preempt her threats. He told a few friends so that they could be my call people if I needed to know he was where he said and doing what he was supposed to be doing. I told a few friends for support. I never contacted her kids (I think they are both out of jail and I know one just made her a Grandmother - egads that makes me shiver. I would never let that woman around my child). I don't know if I should do this, I feel probably not BUT......I wonder if her parole officer who is going to be making recommendations to the court for her sentencing would like to know how she supplements her disability check? Seriously, if she can do the things she was doing with my husband her back is not so bad that she can't work. Does he know how everything she does is to cheat so she does not have to pay taxes or be easily found? GM does not think this is a good idea. I don't care what he thinks, makes me feel like he is protecting her. This may simply be because I want to exact some kind of revenge (maybe? rotflmao ). I don't even know if it would make me feel better. Thoughts? What would be the right thing to do in this circumstance?
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/14/09 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I don't know if I should do this, I feel probably not BUT......I wonder if her parole officer who is going to be making recommendations to the court for her sentencing would like to know how she supplements her disability check? Seriously, if she can do the things she was doing with my husband her back is not so bad that she can't work. Does he know how everything she does is to cheat so she does not have to pay taxes or be easily found? GM does not think this is a good idea.

I say go for it--it's a public service if she is gaming the system and you will probably find out some more juicy tidbits that she has been holding over his head. Cause I'll bet she wasn't tweaking all by herself. Druggies hang with other druggies.

Also if he "exposed" to your kids without you being there, you might want to "re-expose" with the no-spin version of what happened.

While I respect your desire to stay in the marriage, I think that you are trying to place a normal template over a very abnormal situation. This is not the next door neighbor that he had an illicit relationship with. This is a hooker who was probably his drug supplier. The more info you get about the extent of his vices, the better able you will be to protect yourself and manage your relationship. I would be hiring a professional investigator to find out just what he did when he walked out the door for the last 27 years. Then you will know what you are up against.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/14/09 06:35 PM
Hi Nano!

We have been through the drug addiction in the past. I know his signs. If they did anything it was not something he brought home or used when away from her and has not since D Day. I was raised by an alcoholic mother, had a brother who was an alcoholic and a drug addict and have been around that much as a nurse so I was careful to evaluate all of that when D Day came around. Before the last 6 years he was practicing and I do not think he was doing anything after he got sober but then I can't ever be certain what he was up to during those trysts. I see no signs of addiction now and did not see signs of withdrawl from drugs post D Day. I don't think she ever did the meth in front of him, he was not aware she had meth pipes and was surprised when he found out there was residue on one of them. He is with me almost constantly and when gone he is not in a place to be doing drugs. I will always have that on my mind as long as I am with him since once with a druggie is plenty for me.

I spoke with each of our sons after he talked to them. He told them all of it that I knew at that time and I basically filled them in on the rest once I knew. They are totally aware, he did not lie to them or spin it in any way. That was probably the hardest and the best thing he has ever done.

Is there a template for this? All I know is that we are working with and following the lessons that Steve Harley has us doing. They are helping. We are going to the workshop next weekend. We have a plan, each of us has our own plan and we are working on them. He is far more compliant than I am, I am still too mad sometimes to care but I am plugging along. I am reading and reading thread after thread. I feel bad that I am not posting more to others but I have little confidence in anything I would say at the moment but I am learning a lot and trying to fit myself into places that I would not have thought about on my own. If there is something else to do please tell me. I respect that you respect my desire to work this out but I still have very little respect for myself knowing what I know. I feel stupid all the time, stupid and reluctantly dependent. Thanks for that, it was very nice of you to say that.

As I was typing this I got a text message with a photo from GM. His GPS is not locating him where he says he is, close but not where he should be. He just sent me a photo of the inside of the restaurant he is sitting in. He is trying.
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/14/09 09:45 PM
Hi Sadsosad, what I meant by a normal template is when I see you post about how you think he is protecting his hooker because he is in love with her. If she was a work colleague, someone normal (not a hooker drug addict), then it seems like that would make sense (and you should try to break their love connection.) You could place the normal MB template of how to respond over it. But why would a man who slammed past you to go flirt with a pretty redhead in stilettos fall in love with an ugly broken down pro? He sounds like he has enough money to at least buy a decent looking hooker, so what's the attraction?

And did he (the notorious liar) tell you he didn't know about the pipes? the meth? Just like he is telling you he doesn't lie any more?

What would I advise you to do? Gather information about him from others. Listen to nothing he says. Question everything. Put him under incredible pressure so he has no energy to keep up the false persona he does so well. Look for the cracks in his facade.

I'm out of town for a few days, so probably won't respond for awhile. hug


Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/14/09 10:28 PM
Thanks Nanowritersix.

I have to play a concert tonight so I can't write anymore until late. I will answer you soon and I hope you will see it when you get back.

I hope you are going on a pleasurable trip out of town. Have a wonderful time. We are leaving for the MB weekend next Friday so if you are not back until then we will chat after that. I am assuming that we will be kept pretty busy during that time smile.

Bye for now!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/14/09 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Nanowritersix
This is a hooker who was probably his drug supplier.

You mean "sex worker", don't you? :RollieEyes:

Actually, my thoughts flow in the opposite direction. GM can write for prescription drugs, and he may have supplied drugs to his "sex worker", not the other way around..... That would be one of my polygraph questions. Another one would ask about any underage or teenage "sex workers". Most hookers (oops, I mean sex workers) are not high level call girls but down on their luck run-away or young girls with history of abuse .... in other words, easy targets for more abuse. I wonder what the youngest age "sex worker" was ....

Treating these women like chattel and thus denying their humanity while portraying himself as BETTER THAN THEM is who he is. Morally and ethically, GM is LOWER than any of his hookers (oops, I mean sex workers). Why? Because he is a highly educated man who has the responsibility to uphold (at least the spirit of ) the Hippocratic Oath. He was not turning tricks to put food on the table. He was contributing to the downfall and abuse of pitiful down and out females ... And he wants to tell us how respected he's been in the medical community ... puke
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/14/09 11:46 PM
Quote
This is going to take years and years. I see what you mean now.

One foot in front of the other is the only way to approach a long journey.

Quote
Am I really this slow to get it?

You're just fine.

It is all an overwhelming steaming pile of manure when you first become aware of the depth and breadth of the betrayal. At first, you can't even think straight because gravity went upside down for awhile.

Quote
I feel like I am foggier than GM ever was (is?).

No contest, my dear. You are not foggy. You are grieving. Big difference.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/15/09 11:23 PM
I HATE this I HATE this I HATE this!

This is what I have figured out. GM courted me wonderfully. I felt loved and honored and totally and completely happy. We got married and it changed that very day. When I asked him several horrible years later why he married me he responded that it was because he wanted children and he knew I would make a good mother and a wife made a Dr. more credible in the community. That was it. From this standpoint now I see why it all changed so abruptly. Courtship was my job interview. Once married I became "the help" and was owed nothing more than the bare minimum I needed to do my job. Once presented with "the rules" I tried everything then eventually balked, dug in and withdrew. No compensation, no good evaluations only more and more requirements and more and more criticism.

So here we are. We just sat down to do our weekly reading of his Extraordinary Precautions. Reading this always makes him feel good. It always makes me feel like total crap. It is excruciating to listen to a tome of rules my husband has to have in order to remain faithful to me. Down to what to do if a woman makes eye contact! Well h***, how can the man even get through a grocery store with his pants on?

When he first came back home he told me he did not want to grow old alone. THAT was why he wanted back? I did not even hear the meaning in that until today. So he had sex with every woman in this part of the state and got tired of it so he is home to grow old with me? Oh yes, he got caught. He admits that if I had not caught him he would probably be doing her this very moment. Is this supposed to make me happy? He was totally able to remain faithful to the last hooker for 6 long years, totally faithful. He told me that if I had put the pressure on him for sex he would have lied to me to get out of it. For a hooker? Never for me? So now I am supposed to feel gifted with his desire to build a library of rules so he can treat me right? SHE did not need that for him to do for her what he never did for me.

I can't figure out what I need to do. I am supposed to be working on meeting his needs. He meets his own needs so well it is difficult for me to find a way and frankly I do not care if he feels good right now. I don't even care if he knows that. He sleeps like a baby. I get little sleep. I have recurring nightmares that cause me to wake thrashing and moaning many times when I do sleep. He has sex dreams (he talks in his sleep) with the OW. **only once** I call it Dirt Bag Rutting. He is working the program and getting stronger and feeling better about himself and I am standing here feeling worse all the time. What is not happening that should be? Where am I going wrong with this? I HATE this. The Harleys are going to be mighty unhappy with my attitude at MB weekend unless it improves in the next few days. There is supposed to be improvement. Steve always asks me if it is better and after talking to him it always seems better so I say yes but when I walk out of the room it is not better. I feel a melt down coming and I simply do not know what I am doing wrong. Maybe it is just the rollercoaster going up and down so quickly. Oh great. He just asked me to work on the LB thing tonight. Oh how lovely. Just what I feel like doing. How did you all get through this? I am doing one foot at a time and still tripping!
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/15/09 11:31 PM
"The Harleys are going to be mighty unhappy with my attitude at MB weekend unless it improves in the next few days."

LOL, I think they can handle it.

YOU are the betrayed spouse and that is why it is so hard for you. A wayward will never have the same horrible feelings, I don't care how sorry they are.

It took me a year before I started feeling normal again.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/15/09 11:36 PM
Quote
I feel a melt down coming and I simply do not know what I am doing wrong.

Nothing.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/15/09 11:40 PM
You are angry.
Welcome to the muscular end of the depression spectrum.

Being in this angry stage will be very good for you.
Keep your eyes opened for "the lessons".

Don't worry about LBs.
Be real.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/15/09 11:44 PM
Quote
I am supposed to be working on meeting his needs.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Sounds like a guaranteed way to build more resentments.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/15/09 11:49 PM
SSS,

I would say this is the angry phase, big time. Maybe going over LB's tonight isn't such a good idea. Go outside and scream, go for a walk, take a hot bath. Tomorrow book yourself a massage and a pedicure.

I haven't had the crap that you have had, and you certainly win the prize, but everything you write, seems fair.

Maybe it's time to lock up all the sharps in the house. laugh

I wish I had better conversation for you, I haven't had this stage yet. hug
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
One other thing. I never did the big exposure thing, we were already months into this when I found this site. He told our kids because he had to preempt her threats. He told a few friends so that they could be my call people if I needed to know he was where he said and doing what he was supposed to be doing. I told a few friends for support. I never contacted her kids (I think they are both out of jail and I know one just made her a Grandmother - egads that makes me shiver. I would never let that woman around my child). I don't know if I should do this, I feel probably not BUT......I wonder if her parole officer who is going to be making recommendations to the court for her sentencing would like to know how she supplements her disability check? Seriously, if she can do the things she was doing with my husband her back is not so bad that she can't work. Does he know how everything she does is to cheat so she does not have to pay taxes or be easily found? GM does not think this is a good idea. I don't care what he thinks, makes me feel like he is protecting her. This may simply be because I want to exact some kind of revenge (maybe? rotflmao ). I don't even know if it would make me feel better. Thoughts? What would be the right thing to do in this circumstance?

I say leave it be. NC means no contact for BOTH of you. You are in recovery and need to leave her in your dust and focus on your marriage. Don't stir up anything that might bring her back into your lives.

However... I think it would be wise to keep information on how to contact all potential exposure targets and if GM ever slips again or if OW contacts you and becomes a nuisance... go nuclear with the exposure.

But for now stick to no contact. It really is the best way. Let her fade from your life and your marriage.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
He is working the program and getting stronger and feeling better about himself and I am standing here feeling worse all the time. What is not happening that should be? Where am I going wrong with this? I HATE this. The Harleys are going to be mighty unhappy with my attitude at MB weekend unless it improves in the next few days. There is supposed to be improvement. Steve always asks me if it is better and after talking to him it always seems better so I say yes but when I walk out of the room it is not better. I feel a melt down coming and I simply do not know what I am doing wrong.

You are very normal and you are doing very well. Don't worry about how fast you're supposed to be healing or how much improvement you're supposed to be making or whether or not someone else is going to be unhappy with your attitude.

You have hired THEM to help YOU. It's not up to you to worry about your attitude or how quickly you're progressing. All you need to do is be completely honest with them so they can help you. Just be yourself.

From where I sit, you are amazing.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 02:42 AM
{{{sss}}}

Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 04:11 PM
How ya doin'?
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 05:09 PM
Quote
When he first came back home he told me he did not want to grow old alone. THAT was why he wanted back? I did not even hear the meaning in that until today.


Quote
He admits that if I had not caught him he would probably be doing her this very moment.

These are two of the reasons that I think he is only giving lip service (and drama) with the "I cannot live without her", stuff. Something is not quite ringing authentic with me.

Quote
I have only one boundary set for him and that is that he never cheats again. It is a big one for sure but that is only one.

The boundary isn't for him. Set YOUR boundaries that protect you.

Boundaries do not prevent a person from doing something (his not cheating). Setting a boundary is all about what YOU are going to do when (if) he does cheat.


JMHO
committed
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 08:57 PM
believer, Pepperband, Vittoria, black_raven, turtlehead,

WOW! Really? I can get madder? Not a good thing I think. I have screamed things that would make a longshoreman blush already. My oh my.

I am glad to know that the progression is OK and normal. I still can't clear my mind. I can read all day and not retain much and that is so unlike me. Believer, it took a year to feel somewhat normal? I am about half way through so I will keep plugging away at it.

Seriously, there is an anger phase that I have not hit yet? I had better stay on my B/P meds then or I WILL burst an artery. Poor GM, not that he does not deserve everything coming his way but still............The sharps are going away as well as the guns. J/King of course. I may use my mouth and much to my shock I slugged him in the shoulder once when he was not getting it but I think that is about as far as I can go with that.

I will pay attention to the lessons Pepperband. They are hard won aren't they? So far my lessons are about me. They are good even though painful at times.

Vittoria, I have not followed your thread and I am sorry about that. I really appreciate you and what you say. Thank you and I am sorry I have been increasingly self absorbed.

I will let go of poking OW. Oh how I would love to. I would probably have to go testify or something and I do not want to meet her again. Once, even though I did not know what was going on but GM thought it fun to introduce us, was enough. Thanks turtlehead for your advice, you are correct. I guess I will just have to wait for the time I see her crossing the street in front of my truck. whistle

Is this the 6 month thing coming with the anger? I do not recall reading about it in the articles or SAA just here. Is there a particular thing I should/could read about this?

Pepperband, I am OK today. In fact I do feel a little better for some reason. I was awakened by GM talking in his sleep again, more DirtBag Rutting I fear. Perhaps he needs an exorcist? He does not remember having dreams like this, he says anyway. Still, today seems calmer thankfully.

Thank you all for talking to me about this mess. I really need it and there it is kiss
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 09:05 PM
Hi committed!

Quote
These are two of the reasons that I think he is only giving lip service (and drama) with the "I cannot live without her", stuff. Something is not quite ringing authentic with me.

I think we are getting there. I really do. It has been hard as everything in his life has always been about him. You could have a car wreck and end up in the ER talking about his car wreck 12 years ago while getting your leg set. It is beginning to get better little by little. Drama? Drama is how he does is all! I don't know if that will ever change much, it is how he was raised. Seriously, never did a one of them ever have anything less than a marvelous or the best of anything. Or the worst, so there it is. Gotta learn to live with a bit of that.

Quote
The boundary isn't for him. Set YOUR boundaries that protect you.

Boundaries do not prevent a person from doing something (his not cheating). Setting a boundary is all about what YOU are going to do when (if) he does cheat.

Perhaps it is the way I said it but yes I do know that. Maybe not as soundly as I should. He knows what happens if he crosses the boundary and he does know it is for my own protection and because I refuse to budge for my own happiness in this life. I have more to set but they are coming slowly as I realize just how much I need to protect against.

Thank you. I appreciate people telling me what they are seeing with him. It is difficult this close in sometimes.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 09:07 PM
black_raven {{{{hugs}}}} back atcha!
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 09:12 PM
SSS,

I had never raised my voice to tst pre-affair. I rarely get angry and lose my cool.

tst tells me that I stood on the bed and SCREAMED at him during one of our affair-details talks. I have absolutely no memory of this. I was clearly out of my mind, and I think he knew it. He says it totally freaked him out (because it was SOOOOOOO out of character for me).

Pre-affair, I could not have imagined I could lose my head like that.

I have lost control and yelled at him a bit since then. But I think more often I've done the "I-could-kill-you eyes at him" when I'm angry.

Yes, there's more anger to come. Sorry.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/16/09 09:24 PM
Well hello SMB!

No, I do not want to hear that but it is necessary that I do so thank you.

tst has been so much help to us. I just wanted to tell you that. I stay out of GM's thread but he tells me about it all. Could you pass that along to tst for me?

I look to the two of you since you are both here and post and I can see first hand how you work together. It is apparent even when I read from different threads how well this is working for the two of you. I see how it is done first hand and think to myself that GM and I could do this too if we just stay committed to doing it.

I will warn GM so he will be ready. He gets too wrapped up in my emotions and he needs to stay strong for me and also for himself.

Thanks.
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/20/09 07:13 PM
Hi Sadsosad--we're back and it was a very nice trip--visited some family and had some nice walks in the beautiful weather.

I hope you have a productive MB weekend. It really sounds like the best thing for you two. Maybe you guys will even have a chance to go have some fun and get away from all this serious stuff! Take care and good luck!

Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 05:34 PM
I'm thinking about you and GM - knowing you are at the MB weekend.

I hope you two had a ton of make up sex (I can't believe I just wrote that).


Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
I'm thinking about you and GM - knowing you are at the MB weekend.

I hope you two had a ton of make up sex (I can't believe I just wrote that).

Ummmmmm

Make up for lost time.
Make up for lost love.
Make up for found love.
Make up for making up.
Make up for whatever..........

*GASP* I can't believe I just wrote that! blush

A couple has to eat so we are up for lunch.

Talk to you later..........................maybe whistle grin

BTW, I spent hours last night having the most enjoyable and therapeutic conversation with two other MBers, especially the wife. I don't know if they said they were coming so I will not say who, they can if they want. She and I went up to the room and laid it out, laughed and cried and told our stories. She is so wise and her FWH has sent GM into internal places I never thought he would ever visit. It was wonderful, they are wonderful and this entire MB weekend, although hard, has been wonderful.

Going to lunch maybe, he is looking at me with that funny look that I have not seen for such a long time. blush
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Going to lunch maybe, he is looking at me with that funny look that I have not seen for such a long time. blush

carry on .... grin
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 06:10 PM
PS - I am so pleased for both of you.
I know I am not GM's favorite MB'er (I pushed him HARD and with gusto more than once)- but I am praying your marriage becomes the biggest testament to the MB methods - EVER!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
PS - I am so pleased for both of you.
I know I am not GM's favorite MB'er (I pushed him HARD and with gusto more than once)- but I am praying your marriage becomes the biggest testament to the MB methods - EVER!

I showed him your post. He laughed. He says to tell you that he has a lot of respect for you and no hard feelings. We both feel that when we get mad at what someone is saying there is probably a very good reason to pay attention to it. You know how hard this is. EVERYTHING is important enough to consider. He is having a difficult time dealing with what he did to me and also how he messed himself up. We are both learning and he is trying his best to think of me first and heal me. For him that is a large task but he seems up to it finally.

I have decided my path now. Judging GM as one who knows the good and the bad of the man I am going to take a guarded chance with him. He seems as remorseful as a person can be and sincere. He is working at this to the point that often when I am down he has to drag me back into the program. He is beginning to learn to care for me as his wife, as someone important to him. His independent behavior is gone, I clipped his wings but only after he stood there and asked me to. I understand what it means to be married to a chronic and very good liar. I understand that his commitment might be a ruse. I understand he is a serial cheater and that he may as well have locked me in a cage for 26 years, I had not a clue what the truth of my life was. It sucks and it hurts BUT I also understand that after this I will never ever get involved again. I am not afraid to be alone, I have learned to live that way and rather like it but if given the choice to make this work or be alone I choose to try make it work. My eyes are open, my heart is guarded but I do believe GM will do this. I know many if not most will think I am nuts. Well, you will not be the first laugh

MB weekend was wonderful. Steve worked really hard with us to get us to the point that we would be able to use the information. GM had several revelations (sounds like a church meeting). We each have a plan with Steve, GM is working his plan like it was the key to his next breath. If we stick with that and follow the lessons Dr. Harley has set before us we will be OK. This should be taught to everyone getting married. We bought each of our 20+ year old sons the book I Promise You in hopes that they will never go through what we are going through. I feel like I can make my life work now, I won't have to carry the weight of a marriage all alone and I know what is going on for the first time. The good man that I saw with everyone else has reached out to me finally. He knows his boundaries now and he knows that they are there to protect me (thanks to all of you who have been trying to get me to understand that) and not cage him.

Besides, I am married finally and having a great time! whistle
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Besides, I am married finally and having a great time! whistle

One word
Astroglide

Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 10:31 PM
I'm so glad your weekend has been a good one.

You couldn't save one of one of those deliciously smooth and orgasmic truffles for me ??? grin

My H and I have decided that an MB weekend will be a wedding gift when our kids get married. smile
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 10:33 PM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh my sides(?).

You are SO bad.

Love you, I really do!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/22/09 10:36 PM
Sorry Vittoria but not this time. I am being very selfish grin

Now that is a great gift! We will have to consider that too. It is truly a wonderful weekend. The program is just amazing and the people, well the Harley's are the best.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 12:31 AM
I was wondering how the MB weekend went. It looks like it went extremely well.

I think your decision and approach is a wise one. GM is working the program as if his next breath depended on it - good!! IF he has a true and lasting change of heart that would be the best for all concerned - GM, you, your children, grandchildren....

And if this is a monster ruse, you can always leave later, knowing you did *everything* possible to make it work.

And Pepperband - oh, my!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
BTW, I spent hours last night having the most enjoyable and therapeutic conversation with two other MBers, especially the wife. I don't know if they said they were coming so I will not say who, they can if they want. She and I went up to the room and laid it out, laughed and cried and told our stories.

smile smile

I always love it when someone is going to BE OK. Not only did you get to a MB weekend, but you got to meet such a wonderful MB couple. They will all be such a blessing to you and GM. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{sadsosad}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 03:33 AM
Thank you Turtlehead.

I really see no ruse here but then I never truly believed the ruse I saw before and look what happened!

Going very slowly and wisely I hope.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 03:43 AM
MelodyLane thank you.

They are a blessing to us and yes, they are wonderful. She had helped me quite a bit before and last night meant more to me than I can say. Even the sad topic could not stop me from being terribly happy to have met them and to get to know them a little. You were so integral in her ability to cope and move forward, she speaks very highly of you.

Does this make me something like a grandaughter (lol I am probably much older than you) or a third cousin or something? Your advice passed on and on forever smile
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
BTW, I spent hours last night having the most enjoyable and therapeutic conversation with two other MBers, especially the wife. I don't know if they said they were coming so I will not say who, they can if they want. She and I went up to the room and laid it out, laughed and cried and told our stories.


It was therapeutic for me, too...another cleansing of the soul.

Well, sss, my cold/virus/whatever kicked in last night. I am in bed this morning--couldn't even make it to co-op. But my sweet little one is happy to be home cuddling with me instead of at co-op.

I am grateful I didn't feel this badly at the Weekend. It was such a pleasure to talk face-to-face with you. I know tst feels the same way about his conversation with GM. We were blessed to pass on some hope from our journey to yours.

Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 04:09 PM
sss and smb-
i just wanted to chime in here - that i was also so happy to meet you two at the weekend. i was only sad that our flight left so soon and we could not spend more time with you both.

sss- GM seems so true to changing and working the program- and despite the hurt that you and i shared there- we have men who want to change and we have HOPE for a new life with them. although i agree with you that it is soooo hard to move on from multiple affairs of many years- i think the more growth that our Hs show us-
the more change they show us
the more caring and protection they show us
the more thoughtfulness they show us
the more meeting of our ENs they show us
the more we can move out of the darkness and into the light with them by our sides.

your H and mine seem to be on the way.

as dr. harley said - its a long journey - but the difference is now that we have the support of dr. harley and our weekend coordinator there, besides all the wonderful people here - on these boards.

so glad we can be on this journey together.

sf
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 04:49 PM
smb-
just wanted to add - your posts and tst's posts have changed my life and my H's life. you are both so "dead on" with knowing where the direction is that we needed to go.

i cant thank you enough for your encouragement and support. i know that i am still at the very beginning of change and recovery- but at least now i see a path. you are two amazing people.
sf

sss- sorry - i didnt want to TJ - but just needed to add.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
PS - I am so pleased for both of you.
I know I am not GM's favorite MB'er (I pushed him HARD and with gusto more than once)- but I am praying your marriage becomes the biggest testament to the MB methods - EVER!
AMEN! BTW, pep you will be THE most important memory from this board for GM simply because did push him hard.

sss, so happy for you!!!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 09:40 PM
Thank you FF!

We just got home after a rollercoaster landing in Kansas City. Wind is blowing about 60 miles and hour and super cells are moving in so I will lose my connection.

I just wanted to thank everyone and tell SMB and SF how much I also enjoyed meeting and talking to them.

This truly is the best website forum, website and program. I don't think there is any better chance for us than to work this.

Think I better bring in the critters now.

Auntie Em! Auntie Em! :MrEEk:
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/23/09 10:06 PM
Run, Dorothy, run................

Glad things are going so well. I'm praying for you and GM, and feeling really hopeful.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/24/09 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by believer
Run, Dorothy, run................

Glad things are going so well. I'm praying for you and GM, and feeling really hopeful.

grin

So far so good. We seem to be in the storm gap.

Thanks believer. That means so much to both of us. We both know how difficult this will be. The funny thing is, we have most of the elements of a great marriage in place but the few things we have lacked are HUGE! I think it mainly will hinge on if I can heal or not and learn to live with this. It seems like a death. You never get over it but you learn to live with it. GM is working and studying and I know he can do this. When he makes up his mind he always gives it his all and never backs down. I am impressed with the effort and also the remorse because the farther we go with this the more he seems to suffer it and the harder he works. Your constant support has been very important. Thank you for that.
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 03:59 PM
Sadsosad, I can't think of any other way to put this--I am so afraid for you. Every post of Green Mile's reveals more and more of the tin foil hat he wears (it's shaped a little like Napoleon's, lol).

What ever happened to the scheduled (?) polygraph he was supposed to go through before his One-Week Extreme Personality Makeover?

I do apologize. You are probably tired of my suspicions. But once I was in same boat--everyone telling me my SO was a liar and a philanderer. My believing it and NOT believing it at the same time. Defying reality to believe that the impossible was possible.

It wasn't.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Nanowritersix
What ever happened to the scheduled (?) polygraph

A very good question
Posted By: Bubbles4U Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 04:35 PM
SSS, your husband seems like, well....a very good actor. Sure he might feel bad, cry, etc. But where is the true change in his heart?

I do not know why I just cannot BUY his stuff. It just does not add up. It is sickly sweet like he is "being a good actor" out of desparation. We all know he is not that sweet a person given all that he did to you and the criminal acts he committed with those prostitutes.

Seems like a good con game he is playing to me, all,to keep you around..... for some reason of his own.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 04:48 PM
Please please please

Not now. I can't take anymore right now. I am getting killed with Openness and Honesty right now and it hurts so much, so much.

Please, not now. I will get back later.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Please please please

Not now. I can't take anymore right now. I am getting killed with Openness and Honesty right now and it hurts so much, so much.

Please, not now. I will get back later.
Big (((((((((sss)))))))))))))) hugs my dear.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:03 PM
SSS - I just read GM's post and am quite optimistic! If you get a chance between all of the turmoil and your time dancing with goats, see if you can look into a 12-Step program for YOU. Even though you are not the addict, it will help you like nothing else.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:13 PM
{{{{{{SSS}}}}}}

Email me if you wanna chat.

I'm praying that the comforting arms of God are wrapped around you today. Rest in him.

Here are a few verses I highlighted in my Bible during tst's affair.

Psalm 28:6-7 Praise be to the Lord, for he has heard my cry for mercy. The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in Him, and I am helped.

Psalm 30: 2 O Lord my God, I called to you for help and you healed me.

Psalm 31: 2-3 Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.

Psalm 31:9 Be merciful to me, O Lord, for I am in distress; my eyes grow weak with sorrow, my soul and my body with grief. My life is consumed by anguish.

Psalm 34:18 The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.


Psalm 102:1-2 Hear my cry, O Lord; let my cry for help come from you. Do not hide your face from me when I am in distress. Turn your ear to me; when I call, answer me quickly.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man.

Psalm 147:3 He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.





Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:27 PM
Don't be too optimistic. I hate for you to get your bubble burst too believer.

I finally was able to break through his bs, the way he would wind a story around so it sounded less bad. He thought it was making me feel better that way? No, he really wanted to still cover his a**.

I now know that he did not want to go on our 25th anniversary trip to NYC. I knew he was not terribly excited but of course at that time I was not aware of why. What I did not know was that he told her he had to go, did not want to leave her. He emailed her when we were there. He did not have fun like he has maintained, he only wanted to come home to be with her. Our 25th wedding anniversary. As soon as we got home he took her out to dinner in public! (its ok, he went in first to see if he knew anyone there)

He also hated me. The sex was GREAT with her, passionate and he was totally in love with her and hated me, hated me for most of our marriage. No wonder he ignored me. It was all because I did not jump when he said jump. He apparently thought I was supposed to hang on his every breath. I tried to do many of the things he wanted but he raised the bar every time and told me I was inadequate every single time in very awful ways. He set me up to fail because he KNEW I would never be that Stepford Wife. Once set up and failing he had his excuse to go to hookers because I was certainly not going to have a lot of sex with someone who treated me that way. He knew why, I told him. The MC told him but he did not think he had to do anything to be married, it was all my job. If I wanted him to stay I had to do all the work. Well, I have a brain (maybe) and a will and the right to not be anyone's slave. If I had not had the boys and had not been under threat from his family I would have left very early on. So he set me up, knocked me down and then went to hookers. The last thing, that 6 year affair with the last hooker took him so far away from me. He maintains that all during our marriage he thought getting sex outside would help us. Good lord. Really? Now I know how passionate and great the sex was and how he was so much in love and how long he actually looked at me and hated me. I just can't take this. Why could he not have been honest before about this? It is not like it is a big surprise but to hear it now, 6 months after I discovered the affair, a few days after the wonderful MB weekend and all the healing that seemed to take place then, it is almost like he is setting me up and knocking me down all over again. Hmmmmm.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:31 PM
Thank you. ((((((hugs)))))) back.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:37 PM
SMB thank you.

I knew there would be more sorrow, I know there probably always will be but at this point to be getting more info seems like starting all over again. It is not like a D Day but it feels like one.

Thank you for the verses. Right now these two

Quote
Psalm 31: 2-3 Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.

Psalm 31:9 Be merciful to me, O Lord, for I am in distress; my eyes grow weak with sorrow, my soul and my body with grief. My life is consumed by anguish.

speak to me the most. Anguish is a good word and I do feel like I am growing weak. I am certainly getting real sick and tired of this. Thank you.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:40 PM
sss,

It sounds to me like old patterns are hard to break. To be fair (and honestly I am not sure he deserves fair) some of these confessions could be coming as he gains perspective. As a former wayward I can tell you it is very hard to SEE CLEARLY the why's when you are in the high of the A. Self examination takes a long time.

Does he need to be this brutally honest with you? Are these questions you are asking him? Is he feeling a need to cleanse his soul at your expense?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Why could he not have been honest before about this?

People of the lie -
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Why could he not have been honest before about this?

People of the lie -
Ya know, he said on his thread he has an addiction to control . Stringing these "truths" out sounds like more of his need to control.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:52 PM
Hi FF

I am not actually asking them because I want the answers but because I want him to be honest and see his own deceit, he misses that because he actually believes his own made up stories. I don't care what the real reason is, I really doubt it is to spare me the lovely details, but instead of being truthful he spins the stories and because of that I simply can't believe a word he says. So I catch him and hold fast until he fesses up to making up the story and gives me his reason, then he spills it all. I don't know quite what to do, he has to be caught and it has to be brought up or he will continue this pattern of making stuff up to sugar coat the truth and pull the wool over my eyes (or try, I am not so dumb as he apparently thinks I am). Because he is admitting to the untruth when I call him on it I think he is perhaps honest about trying to change that but I am afraid I am going to have to suffer the consequences of calling him on it. I fear this may end the marriage, I am unsure how much more I can take but it has 0 chance of success if I let it go.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:55 PM
Pepperband

I just KNEW we would eventually have to come back to that in fact I was thinking about it a lot lately.

FF

Could be that or partially that. He does try to control everything and every situation and most people. He can't control me by setting rules or poking at me but by lying he can. I wonder if he will stay when that goes away too?
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 05:58 PM
Quote
I wonder if he will stay when that goes away too?
My prayer is when he finally submits to God's will and God's way, he will no longer feel the need to control. Until then, his old self is going to rear it's ugly head now and then not matter how hard he tries to CONTROL himself.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:05 PM
I know he has expressed a willingness to attend church. We did once and he liked it. It is very difficult to get everything done on the farm, clean up and get to church so right there you have a built in excuse not to go. I am going to have to lead the way there because he knows I am the one who really does not want to go. I have no love for churches but I do love Jesus and have a relationship with God but it is really personal and something I am more happy and comfortable sharing in my own way. I am surrendered and if he does it it will help him. I had not really thought of it quite that way. For the marriage I will do this. It is actually pretty comfortable for me because most of the people at this church are already people I know and care about and work for.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:19 PM
sss, do it for *you* as well. God wants us to worship with others. We need the fellowship and we need other believers to call us on the carpet when necessary and to love on us.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:37 PM
Well since I have to be there I guess I will get the fellowship whether I like it or not! grin <---this IS a joke

I just brought up to GM how terribly hurt I am by all this new information and I asked him if he could refrain from telling it to me since I have more than enough knowledge to deal with. I asked if I could just make him see his lies and not hear the real truth anymore. He said no. I have to hear it all because he is on a path of radical honesty. This is going to be the end of me. Steve Harley and I discussed this before and I decided that GM should write down anything else he remembers because all the big stuff was out. I do not need to keep hearing the little stuff because it will not change things and it continues to hurt over and over again. If and when I want it it will be there for me to hear. Now that apparently has changed. I have more than enough, I really do not want any more to come out day after day after day....26 years of it. I may have to stop this, put an end to it. I do not want to end up in the looney bin like he was, it was WAY too expensive and I am partial to my shoelaces. If he ends up hurt by all the lies he has to keep inside then he can suffer but I will remove myself from the process.
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I am not actually asking them because I want the answers but because I want him to be honest and see his own deceit, he misses that because he actually believes his own made up stories. I don't care what the real reason is, I really doubt it is to spare me the lovely details, but instead of being truthful he spins the stories and because of that I simply can't believe a word he says. So I catch him and hold fast until he fesses up to making up the story and gives me his reason, then he spills it all. I don't know quite what to do, he has to be caught and it has to be brought up or he will continue this pattern of making stuff up to sugar coat the truth and pull the wool over my eyes (or try, I am not so dumb as he apparently thinks I am). Because he is admitting to the untruth when I call him on it I think he is perhaps honest about trying to change that but I am afraid I am going to have to suffer the consequences of calling him on it. I fear this may end the marriage, I am unsure how much more I can take but it has 0 chance of success if I let it go.

sss, post this, and anything else that comes to mind, directly to Dr. Harley on the MB Weekend forums. You have that help available, if you'll use it!

((((((((((sss)))))))))))
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:41 PM
I will do that! I had not thought to start that yet. Thank you my friend. You and SMB are the BEST!
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:44 PM
It is up to the betrayed spouse to decide when enough truth is enough. GM can journal if he needs to continue on the radical honesty train (which is great) but there comes a point where RH can be used by the wayward as a tool to hurt the BS.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:48 PM
sss-
i agree with tst. i have been posting to dr. harley daily since the weekend. his advise will be consistent with what we learned. also - i have called kim already twice and e mailed her.
PLEASE do it- it will make all the difference. my H has had major mess ups since we came home too and i was shocked- i thought things would be great immediately, but dr harley assures me that these are all habits that can be changed. see my posts under misc topics for the weekend.

i feel taht we can make it now that we have daily access to dr harley and kim. YOU CAN TOO.

they can tell you how sincere your H is because they met him and they will call him to talk to him too.

you once suggested to me that my H should start posting - and that was a huge help. so now i am suggesting this to you- as tst said - call kim TODAY!!!! and post to dr harley NOW. he answers his posts every morning.
hang in there - i can say i know exactly how you feel.

lyine and lying by omission are HABITS TOO, that can be changed.

CHIN UP, hugs, sf
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:49 PM
Quote
lyine and lying by omission are HABITS TOO, that can be changed.
EXACTLY!
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
He said no. I have to hear it all because he is on a path of radical honesty. This is going to be the end of me. Steve Harley and I discussed this before and I decided that GM should write down anything else he remembers because all the big stuff was out. I do not need to keep hearing the little stuff because it will not change things and it continues to hurt over and over again. If and when I want it it will be there for me to hear. Now that apparently has changed. I have more than enough, I really do not want any more to come out day after day after day....26 years of it. I may have to stop this, put an end to it. I do not want to end up in the looney bin like he was, it was WAY too expensive and I am partial to my shoelaces. If he ends up hurt by all the lies he has to keep inside then he can suffer but I will remove myself from the process.

Who changed the plan of you needing to hear the little things? GM or Dr. H? confused

{{{{sss}}}}

Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 07:36 PM
You still there sss?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 07:43 PM
Yes, I will be back in a minute. smile

I am trying to explain to GM how he can answer without all the gory details.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 07:47 PM
Oy, first it's like pulling teeth and then it's an avalanche.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 08:20 PM
Response to everyone!

GM is walking the dogs around the farm, I talked him into taking the goats too so I could stay in and think and post.

He says he is not using RH as a weapon. He sat by the bed and cried saying that he is scared because he keeps effing up. So I had to explain to him that what I ask is all I want to know. He has this terrible habit of raising his voice over everyone so that they will hear him. Sitting at a stop light across from Pricilla's I once asked if he had bought her a sex toy. Big mistake, he did and as I was begging him to stop I got the description, what he did with it and how. I will never be able to get that out of my head but I was begging him to stop and he never heard me because he just talked over me. Yesterday I found out that he told OW he had to go on our anniversary trip. Today he says he was lying to her when he said that. Then he says that he did not want to go with me to NYC, wanted to go but not with me. There is truth in there somewhere but darned if I know what it is.

black_raven, GM apparently changed it. I posted, per suggestion by tst, to Dr. Harley asking him about it since we do not talk to Steve until Friday. Right now we are holding with what I want, nothing but answers to the particular question I ask, no embellishments and if he is lying and I call him on it all I need is confirmation that he is lying and sees it for what it is.

Sunflower, I just posted to Dr. Harley. I did not see those threads at the bottom and had not wanted to interrupt any conversation in the lesson threads. Thanks for pointing that out. D'oh, how I missed that is more than I can figure. You are right, lying is a habit. Gonna be a hard one for him to break but oh well, we just gotta keep at it. Thanks.
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Why could he not have been honest before about this?

People of the lie -

Yep. Pepperband nailed it. What a shock it was when I discovered that people exist, who are, for lack of a better word, evil. I mean, I knew it intellectually, but thought that these were "other people" in other people's lives and of course I would know an evil person if I met them. Ha! They are not all in prison or eating beans in a dingy room by themselves. They laugh and joke--there's no smell of brimstone and they leave a reflection in the mirror. Unfortunately, all decent people will give them the benefit of the doubt for way too long.

They will lie (haha) on a psychiatrist's couch for YEARS and never gain any insight into their own behavior, although they now know what's wrong with you. They never feel sorry for anyone else, but man, do they feel sorry for themselves.

We're not wrong for loving and trusting them before we know what they are. We're not wrong for projecting empathy and kindness on their motives when they have none. But to think they can change--can you change the color of your eyes? Can you grow another hand? And why would they make the effort to change? They are happy with themselves just the way they are. They will certainly modify their behavior to get what they want. But real change? Meh. All a decent person can do is to protect themselves from their endless manipulations.

Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 08:42 PM
I still laugh at the thought of walking the goats.

I thought it was GM but wanted to verify who the "He" was. I don't get the impression that GM is using RH as a weapon but is probably scared of withholding any little detail that can come back to bite him in the butt later that now he's going overboard and whacking you upside the head even when you tell him to stop. Early on, he was warned not to withhold or lie when you asked him for truth. He did and of course that did more damage so now it's to the other extreme. sigh

Hang in there sss. It is tough and you have more to sift through than most. There were things stuck in my head that I thought would be on my mind forever and today I rarely think of them. It may not seem like it right now, but it does get better.



Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:00 PM
Quote
I still laugh at the thought of walking the goats.

I just ventured out of the bedroom to make myself some comfort popcorn and looked out the window. There, across the pond was a Labrador, a Golden Retriever, GM, two black and white goats and our little mutt walking down the long drive. It was a pretty funny sight!

I rarely and possibly never take to my bed like this. My goodness it is like I have a case of the vapors! Maybe my corset is too tight? Maybe it is just a stress swoon!

Yes, he really has been caught. I asked Dr. Harley if there was any good solution. It seems GM is stuck in a Bad/Bad situation and so am I. One of GM's biggest problems is his over thinking of everything. He thinks he understands me then he decides what my decision is (without even asking me) then he decides what to do based on what he thinks my decision is. It gets him into all kinds of trouble including making me seriously angry. In fact a lot of this infidelity was because he decided that I did not like sex. Never told him that, never was true. I told him I was not going to have sex with someone who could not be bothered to talk to me more than a few sentences a day for weeks on end and when he did he was pushing me around. He made of it what he wanted to make of it. What would be the easiest way to get what he wanted? Not deal with me and just go elsewhere. All based on his waaaaaay incorrect decision that I did not like sex. crazy

Thanks for the encouragement, it helps.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:10 PM
Quote
Unfortunately, all decent people will give them the benefit of the doubt for way too long.

All right you....Grrrrrrrrr.

Nano, I would so love to just say something not nice and move along. I really would but I can't. There is much merit in what you and Pepperband have said about the People Of The Lie. It scares the you know what out of me.

I want to be the last person right now to defend GM but here is a bit that you should know. GM is only like that with me. For some reason we have not discovered yet he turned on me the day we got married. None of that makes any real difference right now, the past is past and we need to focus on making things right now. To others he has been kind and generous. He is emotional and empathetic. We was a loving father. While I had a few reasons to stay with him one of them was because I could see this in him daily. It was not directed at me (my reason for planning an escape) but it was there. I do not in any way think he is evil. I see the similarities to what you are posting but he is not that. IF he is and I come to that knowledge you and Pepperband will receive from me a very heartfelt thank you and a large banner that says "YOU WERE RIGHT" after I recover from the experience. Promise. I truly do not think that is GM and I have given it much thought since Pepperband first brought it up.
Posted By: Lilybelle Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:22 PM
SSS,

I've been reading / skimming here. our story touched me as mine is extremely similar. My d-day came after 21 years of M. It I haven't posted here in quite some time. Not sure how many remember me. For various reasons, I, with MBs help, erased or deleted most of my trail, so you wouldn't get an accurate account of my journey from whats left. My H's disclosure took well over 3 years. too me that long to bet the cojones to proceed with a polygraph. I don't want to go into the particulars here.

After posting for years, here and other places, I'm just kinda burnt out on forums, although it was my lifeline and saved me when I needed it. If you would email me privately, I think I might really be able to help. Let me know if you're interested. In any case, I wish you the best.

-Lilybelle
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:34 PM
Lilybelle

That is kind of you.

I would like to do that. I am a terrible correspondent though. Just so you know smile.

This forum has been a life saver for me.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:37 PM
sss-
i would like to e mail you privately off the forum. pls ask the moderators for my e mail address. hope to talk to you soon, sunflower
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:45 PM
sss-
as you know- our stories are somewhat similar. when my H would reveal painful facts about his affairs- it would put me in a tailspin for days. i felt with each new fact that i had been stabbed in the heart again- so i know what you are saying.

your H and mine - see things as black and white. thats why he gives you all the details that you dont want to know. i explained to my H that i did want radical honesty about the facts, when, where, what kind of sex, etc. but i did NOT want honesty as far as his emotions- like when i asked him how it was- i wanted him to say something like;='"when i think of it now- it was all disgusting and my stupid sickess taht led me there and i feel sick and disgusted with the thoughts of being with that woman."

sometimes he would tell me - that he had positive emotions - and it would hurt me even more.

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by sunflower55
your H and mine - see things as black and white. thats why he gives you all the details that you dont want to know. i explained to my H that i did want radical honesty about the facts, when, where, what kind of sex, etc. but i did NOT want honesty as far as his emotions- like when i asked him how it was- i wanted him to say something like;='"when i think of it now- it was all disgusting and my stupid sickess taht led me there and i feel sick and disgusted with the thoughts of being with that woman."

Funny, I did not really want to know much about the sex until now. NOW I am curious that all his replies about it being just everyday average were lies. I feel the bottomless pit in my stomach opening up again. I may not have the courage to ask that right now. I did want to know about the emotion since one of the first things he told me was that he was in love with her. Skanky Ho that she was. I had to know how serious he was about leaving me for her. Apparently serious enough to talk about it with her. Ick Ick Ick

sometimes he would tell me - that he had positive emotions - and it would hurt me even more.

sf [/quote]
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 09:57 PM
Oops, I forgot to remove the last sentence from your post. Makes no sense there but since we can't edit I thought I would do it this way.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 10:04 PM
sss-
maybe when he tells you about his affair with the Ho- he can state before hand something like - " it was my sick way of thinking that led me to her- there was no true love- just two sick people filling up their empty egos".

another way it was explained to me- btw- i live steve's idea of the journal- that when you ask a question and hte information might be painful- he could say that he will give you the truth - but he doesnt want to hurt you- and maybe it would be too much to bear.

idk! for me - i had to know every little detail- or else i felt that there were still some secrets that he shared with OW that i was not part of. so even though it was the most painful information i ever had to hear- i wanted all teh facts- but NOT THE EMOTION.

have you called kim yet???? if not yet- e mail her and call her tomorrow. it will make all the difference. and good for you for posting to dr harley.

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 10:15 PM
Good grief can't he stop talking? He just came in to lay down on the bed and take a nap. A little conversation about the events of today, I say, "Well at least you were honest about your passionate, best sex ever with your love ho." (I did not say love ho to him) He starts up with the fact that it was not always like that, you know how it goes when you have sex all the time, but it was wonderful, GREAT sex when we fell in love, but that wears down you know.........ARGHHH! It took me finally yelling at him to STOP to get him to stop talking.
Posted By: lildoggie Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 10:32 PM


Hi SSS,
I havent posted to you, actually only just figured out who you are.
Anyway, you said
Originally Posted by sadsosad
, I say, "Well at least you were honest about your passionate, best sex ever with your love ho." (I did not say love ho to him)

hmm, perhaps the delivery could have been more focused? It does sound a little like a statement that wants an answer. A suggestion is that next time you could try saying
"Thank you for being honest about the SF you felt at the time was most passionate with OW. I appreciate the honesty. I don't need to talk about it right now, I just wanted to tell you thank you"

that way you said what you needed and he heard it as well as you didnt want a discussion about it
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 10:39 PM
I am so touchy today! lildoggie, we had just finished a discussion about how he needs to stop talking. Answer the question I ask and not tell me all the gory details unless I ask for them. He can't stop himself once he starts talking and this has been going on for 6 months, constant fragments of his love life with her. I swear he is going to kill me with this and I am strong as an ox.

Now that I got that out....thank you lildoggie, I do need to be reminded sometimes that I need to stop my own mouth and say thanks to him. I do say it but not nearly enough. You doing OK? I have read your thread too but not posted. I hope you are well.
Posted By: lildoggie Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 10:56 PM
Ekk, I always worry when people say they read my thread. I start thinking "oh no, what stupidity have I written lately..."

Another idea I had was say to GM "I am going to ask a question and I want yes or no. Nothing else, do you understand what I am asking?" Get him to repeat it back to you if necessary, (Yes I have done this with Flick) then ask the question.

Sometimes I think the problem is expectations. If the H's don't actually understand what we expect from them, they err on the side of caution. For Flick that means tell me as little as possible, for GM, it appears to be open mouth and let it all flow out laugh

I have said to Flick before "hun, I want to tell you something and I do not want a response, I just want you to listen" then I say blah-dee blah, hug him, thank him for listening and go do whatever. I dont take too much time about it, 1-2 sentances, He seems to take it well laugh
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
I say, "Well at least you were honest about your passionate, best sex ever with your love ho." (I did not say love ho to him)

FWIW -
Back then, when we were just getting the truth out, I asked:

"Was sex with OW the best you've ever had in your life?"

after a loooooooooooooooooong pause, H said:

"Yes" very very softly

About a day later I asked him "Why was it the best ever?"

He said: "She'd let me do anything I wanted."

About a week later I asked OW's husband what, if anything, OW said about the sex. Here's what OW's H said:

"She told me that the sex was just OK, but that the conversation and the romance was great."

Isn't that interesting? The disparity of their experience?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am telling you this so that you realize it is not unusual for the WH to experience adultery sex as far more exciting that marriage sex.

Sort of par, really.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by lildoggie
Ekk, I always worry when people say they read my thread. I start thinking "oh no, what stupidity have I written lately..."

I live in fear of having to confront some of the totally inane things I have said on other forums. I don't know if I will ever feel like revisiting this thread however. BTDT and done with it at some point. Nothing stupid on your thread that I have seen. smile

Quote
Another idea I had was say to GM "I am going to ask a question and I want yes or no. Nothing else, do you understand what I am asking?" Get him to repeat it back to you if necessary, (Yes I have done this with Flick) then ask the question.

Good idea, I will try it!

Quote
Sometimes I think the problem is expectations. If the H's don't actually understand what we expect from them, they err on the side of caution. For Flick that means tell me as little as possible, for GM, it appears to be open mouth and let it all flow out laugh

I call em gushers. It all comes out like that old kids song, great big gobs of greasy grimy gophers guts. Equally disgusting too!

Quote
I have said to Flick before "hun, I want to tell you something and I do not want a response, I just want you to listen" then I say blah-dee blah, hug him, thank him for listening and go do whatever. I dont take too much time about it, 1-2 sentances, He seems to take it well laugh

It is like when my kids were small, you had to hold their little faces so that they had to look you in the eye in order for them to actually hear you. Then the hug and off they went, usually forgetting anyway but at least remembering when you brought it back up. laugh

When I first got here your thread and Flicks (or maybe it was just on your thread) were one of the first I saw and read. I was so encouraged by what you had been through and how you came out of it. It is funny that I was just reading a different thread and was reading a long post from you when you responded to my thread. Hmmmmmm. Cue the Twilight Zone.

Thanks so much.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 11:17 PM
Interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

Quote
I am telling you this so that you realize it is not unusual for the WH to experience adultery sex as far more exciting that marriage sex.

Sort of par, really.

I asked GM once how I could ever live up to the secret, naughty, exciting sex he had with her. Of course then he denied it was any good (like he really thought I would believe that?). So I will ask you......can we ever live up to that? I try (and try and try...... blush) but really, after he gets used to me again it will be good but never secret and unusually exciting.

Quote
"Was sex with OW the best you've ever had in your life?"

after a loooooooooooooooooong pause, H said:

"Yes" very very softly

About a day later I asked him "Why was it the best ever?"

He said: "She'd let me do anything I wanted."

That had to hurt. Wow and ewwwwwwwww. It is horrible the things we have to know and live with forever now because of what they did. You OK?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 11:33 PM
sadsosad asked:
Why could he not have been honest before about this?


My response: People of the lie (because I was in a hurry)


sadsosad said: I just KNEW we would eventually have to come back to that in fact I was thinking about it a lot lately.

I'm not trying to increase your angst. Really, I am not.
But you asked a ridiculous question.
Why do liars lie? Why can't a liar be honest?

You ask for a reasonable explanation for absurd unreasonable behavior.

There is no "WHY" -
You might as well ask:
"Why could he not have flapped his wings and flown to New Zealand?"

Because he's got arms, not wings.

GM had somehow eliminated the possibility and the necessity for honesty between he and you.

Liars like that, lie like like taking a breath . It comes naturally.

Which might explain his recent diarrhea of truth telling. (CODE BROWN - CALLING ALL NURSES - CODE BROWN)

You know, like the mechanism for irritable bowel syndrome? The signal for bowel motility is either OFF AND STOPPED or FULL SPEED AHEAD.

What a mess.

Sorry you're having a bad day.
The sex toy thing made me sick to my stomach sick



Posted By: Lilybelle Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 11:34 PM
Hi SSS,

My email that I just set up is lilybelle100@yahoo.com. Wow, I've been through all these questions too. And the fouled memories. And a polygraph. And false recovery and multiple d-days. And the isolation, anger, anti-d's etc.....not to mention the Hi-Def erotic accounts of the A., the amazing sex, 5 star hotels, the hot...well, won't go there now. Anyway - drop a line. I'm almost 5 years out, and I could have written (and did) much of your history. I'm not such a good correspondent but I'd really like to help. I've gotten MUCH better, and I think there are a few shortcuts I can reveal. Just a few.... Please drop a line. Glad you've got the support here. L
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/25/09 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
So I will ask you......can we ever live up to that? I try (and try and try...... blush) but really, after he gets used to me again it will be good but never secret and unusually exciting.

In all honesty - it's too early to tell *your journey is just starting*

Mr Pep and I are deeply emotionally connected, and although our days of acrobatic sex are gone, the emotional connection makes our sex life hot and exciting. I am very "present" and very enthusiastic - which is what matters the most. Not the deed it self - the meaning behind the deed.



Quote
That had to hurt.
I'm sure it did, but guess what? I barely remember this conversation. It was more than 13 years ago. There was more to this story and it involve "the back door" and what caused me to slap him across the face that first week ... but, why go there? It is no longer relevant.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
sadsosad asked:
Why could he not have been honest before about this?


My response: People of the lie (because I was in a hurry)


sadsosad said: I just KNEW we would eventually have to come back to that in fact I was thinking about it a lot lately.

[color:#3333FF][font:Comic Sans MS]I'm not trying to increase your angst. Really, I am not.
But you asked a ridiculous question.
Why do liars lie? Why can't a liar be honest?

You ask for a reasonable explanation for absurd unreasonable behavior.

There is no "WHY" -
You might as well ask:
"Why could he not have flapped his wings and flown to New Zealand?"

Because he's got arms, not wings.

GM had somehow eliminated the possibility and the necessity for honesty between he and you.

Liars like that, lie like like taking a breath . It comes naturally.

Moan, it sure was a stupid question *smacks self on the forehead* D'oh! That was my best whiny self in action once again and the stupidity? OW cooties, that's all I can say about that.

Quote
Which might explain his recent diarrhea of truth telling. (CODE BROWN - CALLING ALL NURSES - CODE BROWN)

You know, like the mechanism for irritable bowel syndrome? The signal for bowel motility is either OFF AND STOPPED or FULL SPEED AHEAD.

What a mess.

Ewww and ha ha ha! It is springtime, GI bleeds come outta the woodwork I tells ya. That is when old nurse SSS had to do all the payback for everyone picking up the vomit I could not deal with.

Your IBS comparison made me crack up. Yes, they are very much alike!

Quote
Sorry you're having a bad day.
The sex toy thing made me sick to my stomach sick
Me too, on both counts.



Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
In all honesty - it's too early to tell *your journey is just starting*

Mr Pep and I are deeply emotionally connected, and although our days of acrobatic sex are gone, the emotional connection makes our sex life hot and exciting. I am very "present" and very enthusiastic - which is what matters the most. Not the deed it self - the meaning behind the deed.


Good, I am pleased for you. Emotional connection is hot and exciting. You betcha baby, it is what matters to me.


Quote
Quote
That had to hurt.
I'm sure it did, but guess what? I barely remember this conversation. It was more than 13 years ago. There was more to this story and it involve "the back door" and what caused me to slap him across the face that first week ... but, why go there? It is no longer relevant.

You are right, it is not relevant. What you seem to have with your H is very very special and not something that can be found in an affair, never. Thank you for being honest about something that was really none of my business and painful to have to dredge up. ((((hug))))
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:21 AM
OK, I am probably going to embarrass myself with my cluelessness but here goes.

Pepperband, I do not get the pizza/Venus sigline. I miss your cape.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Pepperband, I do not get the pizza/Venus sigline.
Venus

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:52 AM
Well she has a stump! Can't she use that? I mean come on!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:54 AM
rotflmao
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:59 AM
More grimy gophers guts. I can't stop him. He didn't know he was lying, he didn't know everything was not out boo hoo hoo. What is to become of him? He is going to leave, he is terrible a horrible person. I know everything, but I can't accept it so he is going to go. Well, can't stop him so I might as well let it happen.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 12:59 AM
All about him, again.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 01:10 AM
Yup. He is sorry. Sure he is. Now he wants a polygraph. I was not ready before, to answer the early questions about that. I knew there was more and was waiting for him to puke it out. Why waste a good polygraph question when you know it is coming sooner or later? Nothing big was left but sh** the man has sugar coated everything in his life but me, me he has thrown acid on. He actually believes his bs. You warned me and that is why I have guarded my heart and not let it open to him yet.

I am just about as angry now as I have ever been in my life. Dr. Harley would be proud, no outbursts! Just seething anger.

He just said, "It isn't any better for you is it?" LOL, no it isn't. Wants another chance, wants me to help him do it right. What in the he** do you do when a sobbing, decompensating man that you actually do care for says he needs you and can't lose you. Well me? I just sit here and remind him that he did it and he needs to fix it and I do not owe him my help. After all, he has left me with plenty of my own grief work to do. How's that for a recovering Pollyanna and all round people helper?
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 04:25 AM
Quote
He just said, "It isn't any better for you is it?" LOL, no it isn't. Wants another chance, wants me to help him do it right. What in the he** do you do when a sobbing, decompensating man that you actually do care for says he needs you and can't lose you. Well me? I just sit here and remind him that he did it and he needs to fix it and I do not owe him my help. After all, he has left me with plenty of my own grief work to do. How's that for a recovering Pollyanna and all round people helper?
I am applauding you.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 01:16 PM
Hang in there, SSS. I have been thinking about how fast your situation is moving. In my case, it took me 6 months to even figure out that there was an affair. WH never admitted anything, even when the OW was living with him.

Then I went around like a zombie for another 6 months, mainly not believing what was happening to our marriage. So I had a lot of time to process things.

Hope you are taking some time here and there to dance with the goats and relax. You are going at breakneck speed, not that it is bad, just very stressful.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 01:21 PM
sss-
hi - glad to see you posted to dr. harley. HE is giving you the advise that you and GM should be following. he has a plan in mind for both of you. just stay calm and know that there is a path out of this mess.

when your H asks you how he should get better- or when he wants help- and you are feeling like you just got run over by a mack truck- just advise him that he should be going to dr harley or kim for help - not you- thats not your job.

i know all about this behavior- for the first 8 months after d-day, my H did not ONCE think of my and my pain. he wallowed and felt bad for himself. once we were even in MC and he asked the counselor WHY he was there! this was bc the counselor was telling him that he needed to put my feelings now above his own.

so - i know how frustrating it is. he does not do this anymore. try to detach and tell him about your pain and how you need to heal.

i explained to my H just yesterday - imagine that you ran someone down with your car. t hey are in the hospital. you go to visit them. do you ask them to help you feel better because you feel bad.... or do you try to encourage them to get better?

you can do it- call kim - she is great to talk to,

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 01:44 PM
Quote
I am applauding you.

sadsosad is bowing and saying thank you.

Things are a little cooler and calmer so far today. We have a 2500sq.ft. garden to get to work on so our RC time will be shooting way up there. That will help because for the very first time we are doing this together. Nothing like lots of sweat and sore backs to draw a couple together, no? We have to start building fence today. Oh boy. At least we do not yell at each other anymore except over his past behavior. Somehow everything else seems stupid to get upset about.

I do not think that this year he will be taking stuff from the garden that I did all by myself and feeding it to his girlfriend. I think, just in case, I will document and count everything that fruits! J/King of course, I think he learned that that was not a good thing to do.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by believer
Hang in there, SSS. I have been thinking about how fast your situation is moving. In my case, it took me 6 months to even figure out that there was an affair. WH never admitted anything, even when the OW was living with him.

Too fast too fast. We have to slow down. Steve keeps saying that. We can't move on MB at the normal speed until he heals me and that is going to take a while. While I work on it myself he keeps falling apart.

I keep telling him that just because I freak out it does not mean I am leaving. Good grief. If I have committed to staying and seeing this through then a freak out is not going to make me stop.

Quote
Then I went around like a zombie for another 6 months, mainly not believing what was happening to our marriage. So I had a lot of time to process things.

I don't think I ever hit zombie for more than a few hours. It hit me so hard. How, after suspecting all that time, I could be so blindsided I will never understand. Man, it must have been terrible for you. How on earth did you get everything done that a mother has to do? I am so sorry. I think I hate feeling like a zombie worse than I hate feeling sad or angry. That had to have been so very hard for you.

Quote
Hope you are taking some time here and there to dance with the goats and relax. You are going at breakneck speed, not that it is bad, just very stressful.

I am, I do have my bright spots. Yesterday was a bit unusual for me since it really colored my entire day. Little goats are so sweet (not really I just think they are) and cute and fun that it is hard to feel funky around them. They are my picture of joy when I need to pull myself out of the funk. Besides, how can one stay sad when a goat is running sideways past you and leaping into the air with abandon?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by sunflower55
sss-
hi - glad to see you posted to dr. harley. HE is giving you the advise that you and GM should be following. he has a plan in mind for both of you. just stay calm and know that there is a path out of this mess.

when your H asks you how he should get better- or when he wants help- and you are feeling like you just got run over by a mack truck- just advise him that he should be going to dr harley or kim for help - not you- thats not your job.

Good advice. I think GM sent an email to Kim last night. Today is a new day. We will move on.

Quote
i know all about this behavior- for the first 8 months after d-day, my H did not ONCE think of my and my pain. he wallowed and felt bad for himself. once we were even in MC and he asked the counselor WHY he was there! this was bc the counselor was telling him that he needed to put my feelings now above his own.

so - i know how frustrating it is. he does not do this anymore. try to detach and tell him about your pain and how you need to heal.

I guess this means I can't hit him? :MrEEk: Just kidding. I have been trying but then I start to cry and that makes me angry etc. etc. I HAVE to get my own self under some control. I did not have an AO yesterday. I was very proud of myself.

Quote
i explained to my H just yesterday - imagine that you ran someone down with your car. t hey are in the hospital. you go to visit them. do you ask them to help you feel better because you feel bad.... or do you try to encourage them to get better?

This is very good. Very good analogy. I will be using that, thanks.

Thanks for everything. Here is to better days.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 03:10 PM
sss-
so glad to hear that GM contacted kim! great- its so much better to take action - and do something - rather than getting stuck in the emotion.
and that you are both doing an activity today and starting a new day. GREAT NEWS!!

i had a good laugh when you asked about hitting him!! there was actually a night when my H was revealing more info about his affairs while i was questioning him - that i held a knife to his neck! OMG - i was insane! but it was insane with the deepest hurt imaginable- only that another person who has been there can know how we feel- and i DO know.

also - there was one d-day - when i actually scratched up his face. he had marks all over his face. my poor dd asked what happened to daddy. we told her that he fell. now i feel sick to think of my behavior - but i was in soooooo much pain - and i didnt know what to do. we had not even heard of MB at taht time.

Glad you liked my analogy!

just for today -a miracle has occured with my H and me! we spoke last night without one AO or DJ from me! and when he broke one of our POJAs- i just was calm and then calmly walked away when he wouldnt stop pressuring me to do what he wanted! yeah!

YOu can do it too- i know your wounds are still alot more fresh - and they need some time to heal- but dont give up hope.
(((((((sss)))))))))

sf
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 03:30 PM
GM was in love with his "sex worker" for a long time. It's a fact. It is a new and shocking fact to you, but not to most of us who have been at the pointy end of adultery.

In 1994 H (who was deeply in love with OW at the time but I was clueless) and I went to see Forrest Gump for the first time. WHAT a great movie. As usual, when we are really into amovie, we lock arms and I lean into his shoulder.

I assume you are familiar with this movie. There comes a line that Forrest describes just how connected he feels to Jenny. In his simple way he says:

"Jenny and me, we was like peas and carrots."

My H let out a huge sigh, and I just KNEW he was reflecting on how HE and I were just like peas and carrots too.

A year later ... OW's H reads a letter my H wrote to his W.
In that letter, H writes:

"You and I are just like peas and carrots. We belong together."

I am writing this so you recognize that our husbands love the OW. Your H is not different (in that respect).
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 03:37 PM
Quote
I am writing this so you recognize that our husbands love the OW. Your H is not different (in that respect).
That is so hard to read and it wasn't even directed at me. sigh...

(sss) Hope you are enjoying the gardening and RC time with GM.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 03:39 PM
One huge difference between our situations is this.
My H never "hated" me.
Never.
He acted hateful sometimes, but he never said to anyone, even to OW, "I hate my wife."

This is the more troubling part of GM's confession. To me anyway.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 05:10 PM
My dear Pepperband,

I so appreciate you sharing all of this with me. It does help but I hate hate hate that you are dredging it up. Are you OK? It must still hurt and I do not want to think you are hurting just to help me. Please. Your story made me cry for both of us and all the others as well who have to know this about their husbands.

OK, so how do you ever reconcile that information enough to get past it? Is it just MB and time? If so I can do that I think.

Yes, he hated me. He created a woman to hate, he knows that. The first thing he said after the discovery was that he thought I was a totally different person than I really am. I am the same woman he fell in love with but he buried me. He created that in his mind. I think he needed a bad guy to play off of. Someone to make him feel better than, someone to sneak around on, someone to feel like he was a great covert action kinda guy. So I was chosen because I was the one person who would not jump every time he even thought he needed something. I blew his version of himself. He hated the woman he created. For what it is worth, I hated him off and on as well. He WAS the man he was, not a creation of mine so I think my hatred may be harder to forgive. He certainly nuked my love bank. Overkill, blew the savings far and near and ended up giving what he collected to someone else.

I am thinking of naming my scarecrow after the OW. Dirtbag D________. I can use her for target practice. I don't hunt but I am a darned good shot and I could take her face off in an hour. Nahhhh, she is not good enough for that.

Cup O Tea break over. Out to put up fence ewwwwwwww. Great RC though, we will have fun.

Thank you Pepperband. I am weepy all over again for you. Such a sweet thing to give away to someone else. How do they live with themselves?
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 05:23 PM
sss-
i agree with you - our husbands said they hated us - bc it made them feel justified in their behaviors- and it gave them a scapegoat to blame for all the things they really HATED ABOUT THEMSELVES.
YES- we were not meeting each other's ENs- but we were the ONLY ONES WHO SAW THROUGH ALL THE BRAVADO-
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 05:28 PM
SSS-
i hate that my finger slips and i send and then i cant edit!!!


anyway- WE saw them as they really were - and no one else did. so they hated us - they hated us for seeing the REAL them - they couldnt trick us into worhipping them because we saw the real them and loved them anyway.

so - they hated the mirror they saw in our eyes - of the narcissitc man who treated his wife so lousy - and they didnt want to face who they really were -so they bundled up all their brokenness and self hatred and put it on our shoulders!!!

my H never said ( as far as he says) that he hated me - but he told all his OW - that his wife hated him- like feel bad for me - the poor, hated man - who needs to get away from the big mean wife.

its alot to accept- the fact that they lied and cheated and them blamed us.

but your H is still here - doing whatever it takes -s o he CHOOSES YOU- you were the real deal all along.

he just didnt have the inner strength to make a real marriage so he ran to the easy relationships- but he kept his love for you buried- and now it is out in the open and he wants YOU.

feel grateful that he does and try to live in the NOW.

sf
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 05:41 PM
I am fine goat-girl.
This historical stuff no longer troubles me at all.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 06:39 PM
Hello, sss.

The reality for you is your marital history is blown away. I think you are trying to find something....ANYTHING...to hold on to as "real". Some time, some memory. But from our conversation at the MBW, I know that does not exist. And in your heart, you know it, too. Just what you told me about the birth of your children is enough to tell me that.

I wish it weren't so. I wish you COULD find one thing...one memory...to claim as real.

So the question is...

Are you willing and can you go forward in this marriage knowing that EVERYTHING you have shared to this point was a lie fabricated for the sole purpose of his own self-gratification? I honestly cannot imagine living with that. But this is YOUR life and your decision.

If your answer is yes, then you have to accept that every question you have will have a horrid answer. He is committed to O&H at this point (at least at this moment he is). You don't really want anything less, do you? It is in your best interest that he NEVER fudge on the rule of radical honesty.

So if you don't want the horrid truth that you know is there, don't ask. Only you can decide what you need to hear him say. But you've got to go into this knowing that the answer will not be what you want to hear and may even be worse than you imagined.



GM needs to have a "filter" on, like Dr. H mentioned at the weekend so as not to hurt you more than necessary. I don't think he had that "filter" on yesterday. I think this will not be an easy thing for GM for two reasons. One, he has a life-long habit of selfishness and self-centeredness that will take much time to change. Two, if he really gets this at all, once he starts talking, he probably just starts purging all this horrendous stuff to get it out. That could be a good thing in his own recovery, but I don't think YOU are the best candidate for that purging. If he has a compelling need to confess all, he needs to find a male friend that will listen.

The next question is...

Are you willing and can you handle being hurt over and over again?

Because, sss, recovering your marriage is going to take you being hurt again and again. You're going to be hurt by the truth you seek. You're going to be hurt as you patiently wait on him to unlearn bad habits and learn good ones (like Dr. H talked about at the MBW).

GM can do all the right things from this moment forward, and you will still have TREMENDOUS pain ahead as you try to reconcile that the man you are now trying to form a loving relationship with is the same man that did everything he could to destroy you for 30+ years.

I just want you to think about this realistically. You've got to know that you will have many more days like yesterday.
Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 08:22 PM
Sadsosad, you are a really well-centered person. Not many people could be twisting in agony like you and still keep their sense of humor and kindness.

But you know what leapt out at me? (and you've posted this sentiment before): "GM is only like that with me."

That is exactly what one of my girlfriends said when she was telling me about her husband beating her last baby out of her belly. (Yeah, ok, it wasn't GM!) Apparently there was some magical connection shared only by the two of them that made him beat her (and their unborn child) half to death. And he was violent with no one else! Isn't that amazing! (Well, of course he slammed stuff into walls. And there was the time he grabbed their daughter out of the tub by her arm and left marks. And . . . )

Do you believe that? Are there certain people in your life that you do terrible things to and not others?

Or do you not do terrible things in the first place?

You are not going to change who and what he is. You can only protect yourself within the marriage and accept that he is going to do what he wants to do and that the things he wants to do are terrible, degraded things. What he said about his hooker--letting him do whatever he wanted--made my blood run cold. But you're a smart lady and when you are finally uncomfortable enough, you'll make a change.








Posted By: Lilybelle Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 09:33 PM
Hi SSS,

I've posted to you H too. I'll go away now because it's hard coming back and reading here, but wanted to offer my support again. I really have been married to your twin since 1983. It's possible to come out of this alive. The goal is not merely survival, but growth. Growing together is a bonus. smile Best of luck.

lilybelle100@yahoo.com
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/26/09 11:59 PM
Alrighty then,

another installment of This Is Where I Stand.

Mostly to Nanowriter and Pepperband....not because I am angry or do not appreciate your warnings

I know I sound exactly like all the others but here goes.

My decision is to stay for now. As I said before, I know what the potential is and I have my heart encased in steel right now. I can move forward. It is going to take GM a long long time to even break even with my love bank so I have the time. Nano, I understand totally what you are saying. I really do. I was raised by a mother that hated me (she hated all females) and did not have a problem telling me that until the day she died (under my care of course, go figure) and a father who beat the ever lovin' tar out of us for some reason, any reason several times a week. No details, they are horrific. I understand all about this kind of abusive relationship. As stupid as this sounds I am going to say it anyway. I do not think GM falls into this category. It has to do with knowing him for so long, knowing his FOO, how he was raised and seeing the problems he grew up among. I understand exactly why and how come he did this. There are questions of course but I have a pretty good finger on where it all came from. The GM I see now is not that GM. I do not think he acted his way into the locked psych ward. I see him working the program and reading and posting and paying attention. I am trying to separate all this out from the fact that it really feels good to have him doing this for me. He is retired so he is almost constantly with me and he has told several people who I also know well about this so that I have a way to check up added to the GPS on his car, phone and my asking for photos of where he is. I have all the passwords, he has asked me to do all of these things or he has done them himself, willingly and only twice during all of this has he seemed sad about the changes. He quit all the boards he was on. He is not going to meetings of organizations he belongs to unless I can go with him. We have a meeting set up next week for the Post Nup. I had stopped caring so he prodded me and finally set it up for me. He wants me to do this, it is retroactive and 100% he is asking me to set up. I could probably go on but there it is. What am I to worry about? The future when I am not looking so hard at him and what he is up to? Well, this will never stop and he knows it. He expects me to scrutinize whatever whenever. I will not be his mommy but I have to protect myself and I will be doing that. This is not something I want to repeat. He is getting enclosed by boundaries to keep me safe. He has willingly written some of them himself knowing how he came to do the things he did. He has committed to being by my side almost constantly until the day one of us eats the big dirt sandwich.

I see all of this as a place to start. Where am I wrong? I am really asking because I need to know. He is a chronic liar and a serial adulterer. The lying and cheating has stopped and I intend to see that it remains that way and I do not see that as something hard to do. The hard part is living with what he has done. If he can show me 1/10th of the love he gave me before we were married then I can be a happy woman for the rest of my life....IF I can get over what has happened. So, let me have it. I need and am asking for honesty.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by Nanowritersix
You are not going to change who and what he is.

Dr. H said this past weekend that ANY behavior can be changed by working the principles of the MB program. So IF you buy into the MB program, then you recognize that if someone is committed to it, they can change anything about themselves. Dr. H used the example of verbally abusive people and even child molesters. He has experience dealing with both and has had success in changing their behaviors.

GM's past is probably about as bad as it gets around here. But if he is committed to working this program, even HE can become a faithful, caring man.

There is HUGE risk here for sss, and she is aware of what she's risking. Having spent several hours talking face-to-face with sss, I realize that she is a very strong woman who knows exactly what she's doing.

But IF they follow the program, it is possible.



Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 12:13 AM
According to Dr. H...

under certain circumstances, no one can be trusted.

under certain circumstances, everyone can be trusted.

Dr. H is helping sss and GM create the circumstances (lifestyle) that will make it possible for GM to be trusted within the parameters that they agree to.

IF he becomes unwilling to live under those parameters, he certainly should not be trusted.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 12:19 AM
SMB

I thought you would be doing your anniversary thing! I will write later, we are doing a lesson.

Happy anniversary!
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 01:44 AM
sss

Due to the length and depth of GM's wayward behavior, we are all concerned and don't want to see you suffer anymore than you already have. Honestly, when I read your story my initial reaction was WTF?? x 100,000 Run and run fast!!! But you are the one living this and we get skeptical at times for good reason.

I never would have thought my M would have survived either if I hadn't lived it myself. Despite all the rotten things my H has done to me, I saw the pain and remorse in his face. If you see that in GM's face, I will take your word for it. Even though he brought it on himself, it was heartwrenching for me to see that my H HATED himself not just for his A but for all the times he took me for granted and was less than the man he should have been. As twisted as it may sound, seeing him that way was good for ME. I don't want to see a never ending pity party but at the same time seeing him so desperate to fix what he broke kind of reassured me that the light bulb went on and he understands the gravity of what he has done to me and us.

I've seen many posters say their WS is now a FWS because the A is over yet they still exhibit wayward behavior that makes me worry for them. I know I would never have given my H that F if I hadn't seen with my own eyes a man that was completely broken. We were both broken. Yet we managed to pick each other up even when it would have been easier just to lay down and die to get some relief. We have helped each other heal. I hope I'm not projecting too much of what I HOPE will happen for you and GM because of my own experience but oddly enough I do see hope for you two despite how bad GM's history is.

I'll stand in the corner now to avoid any flying debris.

Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
SMB

I thought you would be doing your anniversary thing!

Gosh, A man needs to rest a moment or two in between...... grin
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 02:11 AM
Thank you black_raven

He is broken, totally broken, sadly broken. He is not the man that was in his OW's bed when I called for him to come home for his confrontation. That was 6 months ago and the change is good.

We just had another long talk and kind of made a time line of our life together. It really all makes sense in an odd and very awful way. He is struggling and trying and working. We shall see. I will respond more directly to your nice post when I can. Thanks.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 02:14 AM
Well get to it man! She is waiting and she should never be kept waiting. Sheesh, MEN!

Happy anniversary. You are both lucky to have each other and you each know it! How wonderful is that?
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 02:16 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Well get to it man! She is waiting and she should never be kept waiting. Sheesh, MEN!

rotflmao rotflmao

me getting to it ------>dance2
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 06:14 AM
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Well get to it man! She is waiting and she should never be kept waiting. Sheesh, MEN!

rotflmao rotflmao

me getting to it ------>dance2

Dance Cowboy, dance!

Nicely done.

For tst and SMB loveheart
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 02:11 PM
Quote
I'll stand in the corner now to avoid any flying debris.

LOL. Does that count the blizzard that has GM and me in it's sights? Yikes, this is going to be nasty!

I hope there is no flying debris.

JUST TO BE CLEAR I am not angry. Please Pepperband and Nano, I am not angry but stating my case and hoping for help to see where it is wrong or where you see the weak spots. I know what I see but you all see different things. I am asking for help not getting defensive and angry.

If I do not answer it is not because I am angry but because if we do get hit with the blizzard my internet service will be gone. I HATE that. I just wanted to be certain that no one thought I was being angry and nasty. (can you tell it really bothers me when someone thinks I am being angry or nasty when I am not?) crazy

Posted By: Nanowritersix Re: My husband is here now what? - 03/27/09 09:39 PM
Sadsosad, keep warm during your blizzard! I remember how extreme Kansas weather is--brrr.

Well, you know, I appreciate you're saying you're not upset and I'm not upset either when I say, hey, if you're happy, go for it.

Three years ago, I had your same outlook on life. Things happened and I came to the realization that my sister is a "person of the lie". I looked at her empty selfish life and the way she never picked up a check even though she makes 6 figures and more importantly, realized I'd never heard her say "I feel sorry for soandso" or "I love you"--to anyone. I quit making excuses for her nasty behaviors. I quit putting my motives behind her incomprehensible acts. I quit beating myself up trying to please her only to have her stab me in the back at the first opportunity.

When I looked at her and accepted she had no empathy or conscience, her behavior was understandable, whereas before she drove me literally crazy trying to figure her out, using the normal motives of cooperation or kindness. That's when I got real and quit trying to make a lap dog out of an oppossum.

I kid you not, that realization shook me to the core and depressed me for the next two years. What did that mean about humans that a "normal" person could be like that?

It means I no longer waste my time with people who are total users. I protect myself and those I love from these wolves in sheeps' clothing. I accept the idea, that much like some people like to live in the Sun Belt, some people prefer to live outside the social contract (although they don't mind preying on those who honor it).

Can they change? Of course they can. But they are not going to do it in the interest of anyone but themselves.

You're either not ready or don't need to hear my warning. That's ok--I accept that, too! Maybe some one else can use it.



Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/08/09 05:07 PM
Hello all! Sentencing of GM's lovely OW was yesterday. I am not certain I understand it all so I am looking for someone who can interpret it for me. I can post it removing all ID but I am not certain that would be OK. Please let me know if it is OK to post it without ID. If not and you understand all of this and would not mind looking at it for me post and I will get my email addy to you. Thanks.

She is in trouble no matter how you look at it :), poor little skank.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/08/09 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
She is in trouble no matter how you look at it :), poor little skank.



hurray hurray

Small justice.
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/08/09 05:59 PM
Have you asked GM if he is okay with you posting it here?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/08/09 06:11 PM
Quote
Have you asked GM if he is okay with you posting it here?

Yes I have and he has no problem with it. It is public information after all. Still, I did not want to cross what is acceptable on the MB forums.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/08/09 06:17 PM
Quote
Small justice.

Small but somehow satisfying. Mmmmmmmm :twobyfour:

Since GM is no longer supporting her she is going to have a very hard time paying for all of this. That is unless she has found someone elses husband, GM was not the first for her. She has probably sold "our" trailer and "our" car and perhaps a few of my things that found their way into her life. Whatever, they are not going to take care of this. I hate to smile and be happy over someone elses misfortune but she did bring this on herself, with the help of my husband.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 09:26 PM
SkankoOW is getting the smack down? cool

Email me - would love to read it:****edit******
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 09:32 PM
Hurray for justice!
Posted By: Bubbles4U Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 09:44 PM
JUSTICE would be if SSS's HUSBAND got a prison sentence for

1. Soliciting a prostitute
2. Adultery
3. Abuse of SSS
4. Financial abuse of his family

THIS would be JUSTICE. He "gets off" Scott Free! As he always has before.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
He "gets off" Scott Free! As he always has before.

You live in their house to know this?
Posted By: Bubbles4U Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 10:01 PM
No. but he is not in jail! Sure, he probably has some emotional damages to deal with ---BIG DEAL! He is not punished!
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 11:39 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
SkankoOW is getting the smack down? cool

Email me - would love to read it:****edit*****

Sent with the subject Sad So Sad.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by faithful follower
Hurray for justice!

grin

Thank you!

I hope you are doing well.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/09/09 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
JUSTICE would be if SSS's HUSBAND got a prison sentence for

1. Soliciting a prostitute
2. Adultery
3. Abuse of SSS
4. Financial abuse of his family

THIS would be JUSTICE. He "gets off" Scott Free! As he always has before.

Well Bubbles, if you are bored enough and have the time I think you will see why that is not entirely true. I can't say I have not thought the very same thing but things have changed greatly here and punishment of GM is not the name of the game here anymore.

Bubbles, interesting name. Champagne? Soap? Gas? Just joking, really. I like it.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/10/09 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
No. but he is not in jail! Sure, he probably has some emotional damages to deal with ---BIG DEAL! He is not punished!

The prostitution part is the only illegal aspect. Other waywards are guilty of #2 and #3 and possibly #4. By that standard, all waywards should be in jail? How can GM retroactively end up in jail for #1? dontknow
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/15/09 04:17 AM
sss-
how are you?????? i have read some of GM's recent posts on the weekend forum - and have wanted to reach out- you sound like me a year ago.

you are bleeding on the floor- gushing blood from every place- and you cant see an end in sight for the suffering to stop.

DONT GIVE UP!!!

GM's words are dead on - as are my H's. they DO get it- but are having difficulty putting all the words into actions - that will help us heal.

the MB weekend has given us an opportunity to change our lives into the ones we always wanted. we can do it!

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/15/09 01:57 PM
Hi sunflower!

I have been thinking of you. I asked for your email when you offered it but the mods did not respond. Since then I have been tucked away trying to put myself in order. So much to think about, so much to learn. I have neglected my thread and pretty much everything else in my life for some time now. I hate it but it is what I have to do sometimes just to slow the thoughts down and make some sense of them.

As Pepperband told me.....recovery is HARD. There are so many things to put into place and to think about. I thought she meant hard only emotionally but no, there is much to weed through and make sense of intellectually. I find it very hard to actually put into words many of the things I think about. This is going to take me a long time.

I have actually hit a high point for now. I know it will even out soon. We talked to Steve yesterday and he told me to keep buckled in my seat, turbulence is ahead but clear air follows. My lows are more easily handled, shorter in duration. My highs last a bit longer. Encouraged for now but still very wary and probably always will be.

GM is really doing the work and he is a totally different man than he was 6 months ago. Again wary but encouraged.

So, how are you doing? I have been a slacker on the lessons. They hurt, they always make me feel terrible about something but they work. They really do work. Are you doing OK with them? I read what you wrote about the affair passion. Boy that one set me back quite a while too. Ah well, onward we must go. sigh

I have a couple of weeks of hard work on a musical then I hope to be back to being more regular around here. It really helps and I miss the conversations.

Plugging along....let me know how you are.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/15/09 04:00 PM
sss-
HI!! i notified the moderators to give you my personal e mail address again. you can ask them or you can ask smb too.
i would really love to keep in contact as i feel we have so much to share and learn from each other.
i am so glad that you have hit a high point! good for you. are you continuing to counsel with steve? has that helped?
i hit highs and lows every day. but just as you- the lows are not so bad- i can talk myself through them, and well... there are really not that many highs when i think about it. i dont let myself trust too much or get too committed yet. its a too vulnerable place right now. i think when i feel safer- i will be more ready. its one baby step at a time.

my h- also is a completely different man- but his occasional slips of not POJAing with me, or his selfishness, or his over-friendliness with people- send me into a tailspin. i am working really hard to not have AOs, or DJs and mostly can control them. if i do slip - i apologize right away- so i feel sure that i am making alot of progress.

YES- werent those comments so hurtful in chapters 1 and 2 of HNHN??? i still dont get why affairs need to be put in a higher light than marriage. the first time i read them, i needed to walk away and cry and not open the books for several days.

we are progressing - and are now in LB chapter 3. what are you working on?

lets keep in touch- good thoughts and prayers coming your way from me smile
sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/15/09 09:47 PM
HI again!

I think that those comments were not to put affairs in a higher light but to highlight how they feel at the time in the fantasy. I have no doubt that a person truly in love with their spouse can far exceed affair sex and passion. If anyone wants to tell me any different then I don't want to hear it. I think you can imagine the extra added excitement of someone new, something naughty, the feeling of falling in love once again with someone you have no real commitment to and no real life with. I began to accept that in the light of the totally disgusting feelings GM gets when I bring up all the women, all prostitutes. He feels very dirty and ashamed and he should. I think that the memories are not so great but at the time it was pretty darned compelling. Makes me sick but there it is.

POJA, can you play with it? We sort of started making everything a POJA just to get used to asking for it. "Hey honey, POJA, how would you feel about going in the other room and having a rousing session of sex?" "Well dear, I think that sounds like a grand idea!" (our best POJA blush loveheart) It is fun and we are getting very comfortable with always asking clearly and pleasantly and not feeling held back individually by it.

I have been a reluctant student and am still finishing Lesson 2 in LB's. Almost done. Not looking forward to the next lesson, yikes!

Good job you two! Sounds like you are doing better at getting it done than we are. GM is patiently waiting for me, he is ready to jump into the next lesson.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/16/09 05:49 AM
sss-
about affairs having more passion - idk! especially since i never had an affair....

but i cant imagine more passion bc to me - passion comes from committment and love in a relationship- not just the sex.

the sex is a physical expression of the love and connection i feel for the other person. if it is just sex without love, can it have that same feeling ?

really - i hate the idea of comparing the two. it is really sickening and a terrible thought for me to imagine.

also - for my H- he cringes when he thinks of the women he was with- like GM- they didnt have to be anything special- just to think he was so great and to say yes. how sickening.

but ... we are supposed to try and move past this kind of conversation.

poja for me comes easier than for my H- but he is getting it slow but sure.

you sound great- keep it up!!

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/17/09 05:33 PM
Well yes, I do understand what you are saying. I don't know about affairs first hand either, still it is the fantasy. Just me thinking out loud.

It is difficult to not talk about all of this some, it is just so fresh but I do know we are not supposed to. We have had discussions about GM's last "love" because she just recently had her trial and we needed (or I did anyway) to know if I could let my guard down if she went to jail. She is out on probation so I do still worry. I will need to keep up some just so I know. She is crazy I think and I do NOT trust her to not mess with me at some point.

Onward and upward. Our big garden project is coming along, if it would stop raining it might be done, and we are having such fun doing this together. It is (RC) one of his top two EN's so I am easily meeting that need. No more independent behavior from him and it is just like what I always wanted except for the pain, lol. MrRollieEyes
Posted By: believer Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/17/09 09:52 PM
"I have no doubt that a person truly in love with their spouse can far exceed affair sex and passion."

This is called intimacy, which is the very best sex of all.

But many couples never get there.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 04/17/09 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by believer
This is called intimacy, which is the very best sex of all.

But many couples never get there.

So sad.

Hi believer! How are you doing?

I think we are gonna get this done. The changes in GM are so great that I feel like I am in my 20's again, he is the man I knew then. The changes are strong, genuine. I still am wary but the changes are consistent. I have such great pleasure spending time with him. I am certain this is an up and the downhill slope is up ahead but with each up the downhill seems to mean a little less. He is working very hard to do the right things and to learn what he needs to know to do his part in the M. Right now life is very good.

I have been so sporadic on the site for a few weeks but I think I remember reading that you retired? Congratulations. I hope it was something you wanted, you never know these days if someone retired or was retired. It is brutal out there. I hope all is well with you. You have been a constant ray of sunshine for me and constant support and help to GM. I miss you when I don't come here often. hug
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 07:39 PM
Well hello again! My last post was about being up and I slowly made the turn to the dark side of the coaster. I finally figured out why I was having such a hard time, D'Oh, our 27th anniversary is this Friday and then Mother's Day.

Steve suggested we spend our anniversary celebrating the beginning of the best years to come, of the new start, of the great pleasures ahead. Well that sounded great except I am not really there. I still hurt way to much and have not been able to put all that in place yet. So here I am with GM wanting to look forward, leave the dark past in the dust and forget the bad times. That feels like it is way too easy. For a guy who could do what he did it is a scary thought that he could just forget it and move on.

I do NOT want the word anniversary even mentioned that day. I have 26 years worth of wonderful, loving cards with personal notes etc. that meant nothing. He has told me they meant nothing more than what he had to do to keep me around to raise the kids and organize the family stuff, he hated me otherwise. Seriously, he hated me. So...do I need a 2x4 and just get over myself or is this a normal response? I don't know if I ever will want to celebrate this day ever again. And then there is Mother's Day.

Mother's day was great when the kids were little. He took the time to take them out and get me nice little gifts and cards and of course he always had something for me too and the wonderful but untruthful "I love you" cards. They did breakfast in bed but once they got old enough to have their own money and transportation GM made the announcement that he had no idea if they even knew Mother's Day was coming and he was not responsible for letting them know (same for my birthday). They were still kids, at home but he would not remind them. It was pretty sad but as he said, "you are not MY Mother so why should I?" My boys, the dear ones are going to be home for the day. It is going to kill me. I told GM I did not even want him to mention it to me. We did not do Valentines day and that was great, I still have all those cards too.

Is this a normal response this far out? I know I am not doing my lessons from the MB weekend, I am trying to just get through my days without melting down. I don't communicate much with anyone now, just stay to myself. GM remains the changed person, he is consistent and very kind and understanding. Again, that is making me angry too. The response I get now to everything is, "I don't even know who that was. I am not that man anymore." Too easy. I do not trust it. I am confused by myself, by the emotions and the logic, by the world and I feel like I am just floating around watching everything happen. I can only control myself and I can't even do that these days.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 07:55 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Steve suggested we spend our anniversary celebrating the beginning of the best years to come, of the new start, of the great pleasures ahead.

easy for STEVE to say (sorry, but it's true)


Quote
So...do I need a 2x4 and just get over myself or is this a normal response?

Friend, I have NO FREAKING idea what "normal response" to your level of trauma might be. SERIOUSLY!

My H never once hated me. Never once. Even when he was being an [censored], or when I was being a jerk, he did not hate me.

I don't know if there is a "normal response" to hearing that your husband hated you for decades ... but MY response (normal or otherwise) would be exit papers. So I cannot offer you any "normal response" ... because I don't think it exists outside of post traumatic stress syndrome !

Quote
GM remains the changed person, he is consistent and very kind and understanding. Again, that is making me angry too.

I guarantee, THIS response is typical.
The offending spouse confesses then feels GREAT about themselves, while the wounded spouse is still trying to take in air ...

My gut tells me you are on the right path ... and the path sucks in either direction.

Sorry hug
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 08:12 PM
Quote
and the path sucks in either direction.
Ain't THAT the truth! You simply amaze me, sss.
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 08:13 PM
I really like pep's reply!

sss, Do you hold on to all those years of cards for a reason?

Maybe it's time to have a bon fire and see them no more.

{{{{{{{{{sss}}}}}}}}}}
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 08:19 PM
Quote
He has told me they meant nothing more than what he had to do to keep me around to raise the kids and organize the family stuff, he hated me otherwise. Seriously, he hated me.


So, what changed that?

How was this fixed?

Or...has it even really changed?

Maybe you are being given lip service in this area...and he still feels the same.

How do you KNOW?

committed
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 08:25 PM
I have posted before about the struggle with what to do with anniversaries.

LG, posted that he and his BW don't celebrate their wedding anniversary. They choose to celebrate D-day every year because it was the beginning of a new marriage.

For someone in your situation, maybe celebrating the wedding anniversary isn't something you can handle, at least right now, maybe never.

Maybe you and GM can come up with another way to celebrate what you are building, whether it be your wedding date or a different date.

I don't know.

I appreciate that LG and his wife found what works for them. It wasn't a solution in our particular situation, but I could see how it might be the best for some.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 08:37 PM
Yes tst, I did hold on to them. Pitiful. They were proof! Proof I say! He really did love me somehow, somewhere, sometimes, maybe, OK not really but it let me think that. I held it in my sweaty little hands, see it says right there ---> I love you. I knew, of course I knew he did not. You don't love someone and not talk to them.

I am so pitiful, I feel so very small right now.
Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 08:44 PM
I pray for the day you can accept that his horrid behavior toward you was not about you but him. I really doubt he hated you, I would guess deep down he hated himself. I so want YOU to be healed.
Posted By: slick Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/06/09 10:04 PM
sss

I don't beleive for one minute your husband hated you. It is impossible that you would not feel it. He may have resented you and felt trapped but hatred is a very strong emotion and can't be hidden. It is easier for him to say he hated you and nailed around that to answer himself as to why he would nail around when he loved YOU.

dag
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:50 AM
sss you are more than normal. Like others have said, I have a hard time believing that GM hated you for 27 yrs. Hate takes a lot of energy so to keep that up for 27 yrs seems hard to believe. Keep in mind that GM thought his perverse life with POSOW was love and none of his behavior displayed that either no matter what he wants to call it.

Not much else to add but a hug
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 11:49 AM
Well Pepper, the odd (funny) thing is I was being treated for PTSD because of my very abusive childhood, then because of the traumatic nature of my brother's death and now again because of this. It makes me wonder. There must be something I am doing to put myself in these situations. 2 of them I had no control of and this 3rd one I had no idea it was going to be like this but still, this can hardly be a coincidence.

Quote
My gut tells me you are on the right path ... and the path sucks in either direction.

Well I can't argue with that. There is only one path that has a slight possibility of companionship, potential for some small happiness with a partner. This is the hard path but I have chosen to walk down it a ways and see how bad the climb is. Otherwise it is the other lonely path where I still have to deal with the pain but with no possibility of companionship. I can do that and I could be OK with that but I would rather not have to choose it. I want to be happy, really happy but I don't see it happening. I can try.

I am old enough to need a hobby, why not this? (ahh the old nurses gallows humor)

I sure hope this pity party ends after this weekend. It is certainly not productive.

Before I hit submit I need to say, I really am not working very hard to make this right. I resent having to do it all again, I did it alone for many years before going into protection mode. Now that he is home, being very loving and all the other things I thought he was when we married I find that all the problems are gone. They were all a direct result of his treatment of our M, our family and because of ONE THING, I would not OBEY. I have no need to use LB's, DJ's, AO's of any kind now EXCEPT what is directly a result of the 100's of other women and I am trying to stop that. Tomorrow will mark my 3rd anniversary of the 27 where he has not been cheating. I find that other than that MrRollieEyes we are perfect together. There really is no emoticon that expresses how absurd that statement must sound but there it is.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:01 PM
Hi committed

What changed that is that he was caught. He was broken over the thoughts of what he did to our M and to me. He saw himself reflected in my eyes and it broke him. He evaluated his life and saw the same patterns over and over and how everyone except me let him off with a "boys will be boys" kind of chuckle except for his father who encouraged it all.

It is entirely possible that there has been no change. I will never, I don't think, ever be entirely certain. He has committed to hard work to attempt to make this up to me (he really can't but the trying is nice) and he is doing it. I am not doing much of anything except watching it happen. He is rarely ever out of sight now and when he is he has people who know and are willing to report to me if I ask. I have all his information, including the secret bank account he used. I check records off and on and he is putting names with all the phone numbers. I periodically call some of those to be certain they are real. I am actually not being a warden but it sure seems that way. He is carrying the load and has been now for quite some time, especially since his last big gush of info in late January. I was content to watch now and wait.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:02 PM
Come onna' now. You are a nurse. Parable:

3 little girls are at recess. They all get pushed down hard- all three fall.

One jumps up and chases back offeder.
One sits still a minute, gets up shakes it off and continues playing.
One lays there, crying and waits for help to get up.

OK now here is the one million dollar question..
which one is the "normal" girl?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:04 PM
SMB

It may not seem like it because I have pulled away so much from communicating, even here, but I really value you and your thoughts.

This is a good idea and one I will hold on to and someday there may be something to celebrate and we can call that our day.

I hope things are going well with you and tst. Hugs to both of you.
Posted By: Ned03 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:08 PM
I specifically try not to post however after following your story (and your husbands) I have to put in my feelings .

My wife had two affairs 29 years ago , They still bother me.
In that I feel she skated and learned nothing .

IMO your husband is a master manipulator and simply wanted to cleans his wrongs while he could and relieve himself of a stupid woman (his Whore) who would no doubt age badly.

Again IMO (as a cohort to your husband BTW, MD ,59yo and very successful ) Please consider yourself first.

IMO a 55yo woman is young enough to have a real loving relationship with a very honest and honorable man .

One without your husbands lies and deceit both past and continued.

Do yourself a favor end your constant self questioning by ending the marriage .

Sever the dead limb quickly and heal.
There IS someone in the world for you other than GM.
You will NOT be alone if you don't want to be.

IMO , I'll bow out now.

All the Best

Ned
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
Come onna' now. You are a nurse. Parable:

3 little girls are at recess. They all get pushed down hard- all three fall.

One jumps up and chases back offeder.
One sits still a minute, gets up shakes it off and continues playing.
One lays there, crying and waits for help to get up.

OK now here is the one million dollar question..
which one is the "normal" girl?

LOL, barbiecat I have no freaking idea what is normal right now. I have been all three of those little girls. Right now I am being #3. I was #1 for a while but grew tired of it. Then I became #2.

What is the answer? Pleading stupid is not something I care for but right now I am confused and feeling oh so sorry for myself.

PS, I am glad you came back to my thread.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:20 PM
Thank you Ned. I really appreciate your post.

Many say this to me, many. I realize that my denying it seems stupid but I am not really denying it. My eyes are open, my heart is protected except for the pain I have already experienced. The ONLY reason I am still here is because there will not be anyone else. I will never do this again and I say that with conviction. I have a life that I can be content with alone and one that mostly has me being alone and away from most other people anyway. I would never ever ever put myself into a situation of caring again. I have no trust left. If this does not work out to be what I am hoping it does then this is it for me. There is no way on God's green earth I would do this again, not a chance. So you see there is not any hoping for a new or great relationship other than trying this one last time on this one. If I can see this through to something I can live with then that is my choice because it would be preferable to being alone but even if it is good I am afraid it would only be preferable at this point.

Thank you, really. I will put this in my growing list of warnings. I keep them close and keep them always in mind.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by faithful follower
I pray for the day you can accept that his horrid behavior toward you was not about you but him. I really doubt he hated you, I would guess deep down he hated himself. I so want YOU to be healed.

faithful follower you make me cry. This was needed. Yes you are right, it was all about him. He says as much. He did hate me, I felt it and I knew it but I never knew why until now. It was because of him and I resent him so much at this moment that I can only think to question myself because instead of looking at himself he rejected the idea that there could ever be anything wrong with him, it had to be me so he left in every way he could but kept me around for the work.

I do not think I will ever heal from this but I do hope at some point to be able to live with it.

Thank you.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:34 PM
He did hate me I felt it every day and I knew it by the way he would walk past me as if I did not exist.

He was never trapped. He stayed because I was useful and apparently stupid enough to believe he could never do what I suspected he was doing.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 12:38 PM
black_raven,

Thanks for the hug and the reply.

I have no idea what he felt for her, he says he loved her so that is all I can go on. I hate to think he did all of these women just to get back at my refusal to jump at his every whim.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 01:34 PM
Well tomorrow is the big day. I am sad and depressed beyond words, worse that ever before and GM's response? I need to stop wallowing in the MB forums because I get advice to leave him and it depresses me. MB forums make me angry. LOL, no matter how many times I tell him they help me...ME... he sees these forums as my source for sadness. I guess becoming a "new man" has wiped his slate clean.

It is all manipulation and still about him.

I have never said "uncle" in my entire life but I think this may be the time.

HA, he says the only thing that will help me is his death. Could he really not understand more than that yet?

Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 01:40 PM
SSS-
if any person can understand EXACTLY how you feel - its me.
i was/am you, as you know the history of my H's affairs were for 12 years with many different women- for all lenghts of time.

he also totally ignored me during those years- and treated me with contempt. like the sight, smell and my voice totally disgusted him.
but if you and i- can both do as some of the other say- and remove our own hurt and ego from the equation- we can see the truth. THEIR CHEATING AND HATING OF US- HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH US.

it is TRUE!!!!! it was their own brokenness- their own self-hatred, their own neediness.

Sadly - we were broken too- for if we were whole- we would have never stayed.

but - they picked us for this reason. they subconscously knew we needed them- and they knew that we didnt have the selfish needs that they had- and that we would become the givers and they would become the takers.

so - we were part of the mess too. our brokenness led us to be attracted to that kind of man.

so - in order to make their lives make sense - they needed a scapegoat. that was us.

they hated us bc in their eyes- when they looked at us - they saw the truth of who they were- so they heaped all that onto us- instead of looking at themselves.

anyway - i am at a place now where i'm not sure if all that stuff even matters anymore. whatever the reasons it happened, it happened.

so - you and i have a choice.
do we choose to dump the guy?
do we choose to try to heal the marriage?
do we choose to heal ourselves?
do we choose to enjoy the rest of our lives or let the past ruin our future?

i also felt EXACTLY as you about the anniversary, mother's day, etc.

we decided to NOT celebrate our anniversary at all. i feel that marriage was sick and disgusting. i dont write it on the calendar or anything. this may 29 would have been our 32 anniversary.

we have decided - that when we come out the other side of doing all the MB work- and are hopefully in love again- we will remarry and THAT day will be our anniversary. we will ,G-d willing -have new rings too.

EVERY detail in my life must be different. i must create a new future and i dont want reminders of hte past.

my H always made a BIG deal about mother's day- home-made bkfst, with the kids, posters, cards, gift, etc.

now i know he was cheating on me while doing all that BS.
so i POJAd wiht him about mother's dya this year.

i asked that he do NOTHING the same- NO gifts, NO bkfst, NO cards from him. I wanted a dinner in a restaurant with the kids and cards only from them.

this did nto work out as i planned. when i said that- he had already made up his mind to "surprise" me with some gifts he had in mind. i sincerely asked him NOT to get me gifts. he made a mistake- (admittedly now by him) and involved one of our sons - to take him to buy the gifst with him.

i was upset and called kim. kim did discuss with him and he admitted to not following the poja. he offered to return the gifts, but as now my son was involved- i didnt want to upset my son- so i agreed that the kids could give me the gifst this year- and this would be the LAST year i wanted gifts for mother's day.

but he agreed to no bkfs, no cards from him and no BIG FAKE SHOW. i think it would make me throw up.

also- i know i will find it hard to open the gifts and be pleasant , but i'll try my best.

anwyway - i didnt mean to go on- but we are in a much better place.

i finally got the idea of telling him about my hurt instead of showing him my anger. and now he wants to poja.

give yourself the time you need to heal. you will get there too. read alot. take care of yourself. learn something new. meditiate. take a jacuzzi, anything.

your's and my worlds have been destoyed - but that is GOOD!!! they needed to be blown up with a bomb!!!!!

you CAN do this!!!!

(((((((((SSS)))))))))))

sf



Posted By: barbiecat Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 01:49 PM
All three girls are doing exactly what they need to recover. There is nothing more normal in the world than that.

Allow yourself to see the world as girl 1, girl 2 and girl 3.

There is no litmus test for the type of severe emotional trauma you have been describing. (I see you have been doubting your recovery/reactions to traumas)

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 01:59 PM
Hi sunflower.

Why is this so hard? I can hardly type through the tears and I don't know why. I know this weekend will be hard but why all the tears again? Dday #1 was just over 7 months ago and I can not seem to stop crying this morning. I know you get it because it is so similar. Thank you.

Quote
he also totally ignored me during those years- and treated me with contempt. like the sight, smell and my voice totally disgusted him.
but if you and i- can both do as some of the other say- and remove our own hurt and ego from the equation- we can see the truth. THEIR CHEATING AND HATING OF US- HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH US.

That contempt was so deep and so pervasive that I felt it through every breath I took for all that time. I see now that part of my coping was simply because I was devastated on a daily basis. I don't think the man ever called me just to talk and he never sat with me just to talk, not once. The 8 months that I lived in a tiny room off my barn to finish the construction of our home (our new start he said but I had to do all the work) he never once called me or visited me unless I begged him to come check the results of what I was doing and then he complained about having to drive 10 minutes to do so. I think it had much to do with me, plus our new start was just to keep me out of his life while he was in love with her. When I came home he never even looked at me, just mumbled and then got mad because I was not living there. I guess he could not boost his ego when I was not there to ignore. It was his problem but it was because he created a vision of me that he could use and at some point I became that person from time to time.

I can't respond more now, too much to think about and answer. I will get back when I calm down a bit and seriously consider what you have said. Thank you so much. ((hug))



Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 02:04 PM
barbiecat thank you. Yes I am doubting everything, even my own existence and the worthiness of myself as a human. Do I even need to be? Oh god the self pity, I want this all to end I just do not know how to do it. All I can see is that it will not end no matter what I do, it will be there for the rest of my life no matter what choice I make. Even happiness will not change this pain.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
It is all manipulation and still about him.

Yep !

Quote
HA, he says the only thing that will help me is his death.

He's being an abusive naughty jerk because you're taking too long to process decades of his abuse.

I love being thrown into the large pool of people who are causing YOU pain and resentment!

HEY GM you can kiss my FAT MARRIAGE BUILDER'S FORUM behind stickout


Enough about him.

I'll share my story. For your perspective ....

Our anniversary is May 16. The first time this rolled around the calendar my H took it upon himself to arrange for a "romantic get away". How nice, right?

Catalina Island ONE of the cutest spots around *link*

The "main drag" is right on the beach and it is basically a pedestrian walkway crowded with cute shops, eateries, and quaint hotels.

Our room was adorable and faced the beach. It had a little balcony on which we could sit and enjoy the view and people watch. A big giant California King bed. A bathroom to die for including a ginormous tub.

Well, the second day we were there I could barely tolerate H. He went to all this effort to please me and my mind could not let go of the FACT that he had been in equally cute romantic spots with OW many many times. Their major criteria for picking a hotel was it needed to have a huge tub or spa where they could both get naked and soak together.I became frown morose, pouty, and then, finally,I became mad .... Everything we did I'd "see" H and OW doing the exact same things .... mad mad mad

I strongly urge you NOT TO BE GUILTED into any of this sort of premature "celebration" before you are damn well ready. Steve's advice might go down like slippery shrimp in a year or two, but this year would probably taste so bitter you can't believe it.

NOW, I have no problem with romantic get-aways or soaking tubs (BRING IT grin ON) ... but it took a few years for me to be fully receptive to his efforts.


HEY GM you can kiss my FAT MARRIAGE BUILDER'S FORUM behind stickout

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 02:12 PM
Thank you Pepper, as always.

He keeps talking about stuff like your anniversary trip and my reaction is exactly what yours were.

I hope he looks at my thread. I won't show him but your little message about what he can do is cracking me up. He would NOT appreciate that (oh so sad).

Abuse, that is the word I could not think of when he said that. All I could think of was that he was manipulating me once again and all he could do was tell me his "honest feelings" and I did not appreciate it.

I think I will go plant some more of my garden. THIS YEAR he will not be taking the fruits and vegetables of my sweat and worry to feed his tacky little whore. I am going to write down every little baby and if one goes missing he just might lose a finger.........
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 02:15 PM
Quote
I became morose, pouty, and then, finally,I became .... Everything we did I'd "see" H and OW doing the exact same things ....


and I did all this myself, WITHOUT any MB forum "causing" my anger or resentment ... it was all H's doing. No forum to blame ... poor man, my H. stickout

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 03:03 PM
Yeah, poor guy! Just think how bad it would have been if you had been wallowing around these forums feeding your grief and upset for 7 MONTHS! Well you might have torn the poor man asunder! He might never have recovered! He might still be feeling bad! Boy it is sure a good thing you did not have MB forums or he might never have gotten over what he did to you, you mean thing you.

LOL.

Edit to add: That looks like a pretty cute place to get mad in! Thanks for the link.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 04:29 PM
SSS-
Explain to GM that you cant go on any anniversary trip until you POJA about it. he needs to HEAR and acknowledge your feelings.
Explain your pain - and then brainstorm to come up with something that you and he would both love to do.
remember - MUTUAL ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT.

this can change everything.

sf
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Edit to add: That looks like a pretty cute place to get mad in!

Right ! It seems improbable anyone could be in a bad mood on Catalina, yanno dance2

A few years later, H arranged THIS place for our anniversary ... and trust me, I was in a SPLENDERIFUS mood the entire time loveheart

another link***

It's the hotel where SOME LIKE IT HOT was filmed.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yummy place
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 04:52 PM
Not this year, nope there will be no POJA on this anniversary. I am not even there yet and the very thought of tomorrow makes me start to shake and cry. Nope. Whatever he wants to do he can surely find someone else in his long long list of OW's to do it with. I will not be put through anymore of this so he can feel like a good guy. I am tired of it, it is killing me. I have to heal first before I can do this anymore. I see I tried like the trooper I am (oh Pepperband you so pegged me) and all it has gotten me is to the point where it still hurts, possibly more than it did at first plus feeling like a failure because I can't "get over it". Nope, no POJA this year. I do not even want to hear the word anniversary. Mother's Day is going to be worse I am afraid but there is no reason my son's and I should not be together for that.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 05:00 PM
Ahh the Coronado! Is it as lovely inside as it is outside? What a nice thing for him to do.

Hey, wait a sec, isn't the Coronado the place Lil Bush played at playing the guitar when New Orleans was under water? Still, a really cool place. grin I will have to think of it as the place Pepperband and her H were happy and the place where Some Like It Hot was filmed. I so miss Jack Lemmon. He was cute as Daphne! Great legs!
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 06:07 PM
SSS-
you are NOT a FAILURE! you are suffering!!
stop judging yourself so harshly.

you are an amazing woman - who remained strong through years of abuse and neglect by GM.

you are an amazing woman - who when confonted with his affairs, chose to stay and work it out with him - instead of running away.

you are an amazing woman - who is learning and growing everyday.

stop beating yourself up!!!!!!

just think - would you beat up on a friend- as badly as you beat up on yourself????????????

REWRITE your anniversary- do SOMETHING - your favorite thing - and dont think of it as an anniversary. spend time with a friend or relative you havent seen- or one of your sons.

dont plan to be upset - then you will!!!

plan to DO something.

i find that action can always take me out of a pity party.

GM is who he is.
you need to find SSS.

where is she???

she is not this angry, bitter woman who wants to suffer.

she is there hiding- go get her and bring her out.

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 06:24 PM
Thanks sunflower.

Quote
where is she???

No idea. Right now I am l sitting here while GM tries to tell me what I am doing wrong. He is a changed man and it is not fair for me to feel this bad and accuse him because "now he is committed to be honest". He wants to forget all the past, he thinks he has been led to believe that it is OK to close the book on what he did. Somehow I am "just not getting it" or I am being "cruel". I can't deal with this anymore. I simply am done enough that I am willing to take the blame if it just makes it stop.
Posted By: Chrysalis Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 06:29 PM
(((sss)))
Man, I feel your pain.

GM isn't going to be able to "fix" this turn of the roller coaster for you. You aren't going to be able to "fix" it either. I think it is just going to have to be endured.

Thanks for reaching out in kindness to so many in t he midst of your own suffering.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 06:34 PM
SSS-
My H was exactly like that !! SD of me- after all he did!

he was either wallowing in pity for HIMSELF - not me- or telling me that WE should be moving on.

let him talk to tst. he GETS it. he talked to my H- and it really helped.

GM should not be expecting ANYTHING from you. you have given him the gift of another chance.

my H may also be able to help - even though he is new at this- he was EXACTLY like GM in many ways.

he is throwing all those DJ at you!!! not fair - tell him to stop in a respectful way.

and if he wont - walk away. dont listen to them anymore.

can i do anything else to help???

sf
Posted By: Pepperband Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Right now I am l sitting here while GM tries to tell me what I am doing wrong.

zipping my mouth
Posted By: Looking4 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Right now I am l sitting here while GM tries to tell me what I am doing wrong.
zipping my mouth
Good for your, Pepperband, because I can't do this any more.

SSS,

I've been following your thread since the beginning and I look for your thread almost every day. I don't comment because I feel I have nothing to offer other than prayers for your eventual peace -- no matter what form that comes in.

But this set me off.

I'm a FWW and I have NEVER told my H what he did wrong to cause my infidelity, what he's doing wrong now in his healing process, and what he needs to do to get over it. It's been 6 months since D-day. I had an A before we married for a few weeks then I had a 4-month A last spring. I am appalled at how your WH is treating you these last few days.

You have more signs of commitment to recovery than my own H has and you were hit with one of the biggest bombs ever. YOU are doing MB. YOU are meeting with the Harleys. YOU are consciously trying to work through this.

How DARE he, your WH who did this to you for 20+ years... How DARE he tell YOU how YOU should deal with this. He should be kissing your feet every hour, thanking you for still being there, doing ANYTHING you ask of him every day, and he should be doing it all with a smile on his face. And he should do this over and over until/unless you tell him you don't need it any more.

He should wake up every morning and say, "What can I do for you today to help you heal?" I know I do.

If your H cannot do this for you, if he can not respect the horrific processing you are going through, if he cannot comfort you without LBing you... Then he should leave.

It needs to be all about you now, SSS. You have every right to be as selfish as you want to be, in my opinion.

Don't you dare let him tell you what is right or wrong for you. You do everything you need to do and don't you even think about apologizing for it.

I'll step back out now and let the others keep leading you. Just know there are others out here who may not speak up, but who absolutely have your back.

Take care and God bless you.

-L4

Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 07:09 PM
woo hoo, L4!!!


(((sss)))
Posted By: Strivn4Better Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 07:20 PM
:Bowing to L4:

Awesome job!
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 07:27 PM
Quote
Right now I am l sitting here while GM tries to tell me what I am doing wrong. He is a changed man and it is not fair for me to feel this bad and accuse him because "now he is committed to be honest". He wants to forget all the past, he thinks he has been led to believe that it is OK to close the book on what he did.


Nothing...absolutely NOTHING has changed.

It will continue to be all about him.

Be ready for his true character to come through again...he will be visiting prostitutes and blaming YOU for it.

He is without character sss....totally without character.

committed
Posted By: Bubbles4U Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 07:49 PM
Right now I am l sitting here while GM tries to tell me what I am doing wrong. He is a changed man and it is not fair for me to feel this bad and accuse him because "now he is committed to be honest". He wants to forget all the past, he thinks he has been led to believe that it is OK to close the book on what he did.

Yes I am glad SSS,, you found out now that your husband IS NOT CHANGED, WILL NOT CHANGE, PRETENDS HE HAS CHANGED, AND WILL NEVER CHANGE.

He is back to degrading you so then he can go out and have more affairs as has been his habit. He "acted" like a good boy until you took him back. It is a great game for him. Now he can go out and be the "bad boy" again after deriding you, degrading you, and breaking down your self esteem like he did for all those years.

YOU have to decide if you will go back to "that" or if you will get out of this. HE will not change. As shown here. Too many years of sluts, and whatever he did as he put you down. More affairs to come.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/07/09 08:55 PM
Look everyone, I am down. My "anniversary" is tomorrow and I am very depressed about the entire mess.

GM does this every single time I get really upset. He goes into a mode where he will do or say anything to try to get me to tell him that everything is going to be OK. I did that for a while then realized, I don't know that so I stopped. He makes it about him, he accuses me of playing with him like a cat and a mouse or worse, waiting until he is in this really good and the money has flown out for all the help and then dumping him to get back at him. Where he ever got that idea I will never know because I am not like that, not in the least. Does not mean I have never thought about that, revenge is never as sweet as it seems it should be so it is the last thing on my mind. Everytime he does this the situation devolves to this. It is like a competition to see who hurts the worst, can cry the hardest, can get the other to give it up. I hate it, it is not helpful but it happens every time and I have to be able to process this and grieve what has happened to my life but I can't so I come here and dump it all out.

When things are good he does treat me very kindly and sweetly and he does practically kiss my feet. But this seems abusive and manipulative and is anything but helpful.

So, my depression over a major event followed by another that makes me sad has put me in the position that stimulates him to do this. I was sad and now I am also angry. I do not know why he can't handle me being sad and depressed now, it never bothered him before. It makes me feel like he sees me standing on a skyscraper ledge ready to jump when I am just coursing through the needed process.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/08/09 11:23 AM
I noticed that you were back posting and so glad ... until I kept reading. I'm sorry that you are so upset.
The few times I've popped in to lend what little light I had or just a 'hey', you responded back by wondering how I was, sorry that you didn't know my sitch or lending me a little light.
SSS, you are so very much one to take care of others, and yourself last. This does tend to go with the territory of the profession.
You are tredding in unfamiliar waters now when it is you that needs to be taken care of, you that needs to come first.




Originally Posted by sadsosad
GM does this every single time I get really upset. He goes into a mode where he will do or say anything to try to get me to tell him that everything is going to be OK.

Quote
He makes it about him, he accuses me of playing with him like a cat and a mouse or worse,


Quote
Everytime he does this the situation devolves to this.


Quote
When things are good he does treat me very kindly and sweetly and he does practically kiss my feet. But this seems abusive and manipulative and is anything but helpful.


Sometimes we have to make a decision, as to what we will accept from others, not only as wives/husbands, but as human beings.
You are a beautiful soul SSS, and you deserve the best that life has to offer. smile

The merry go round doesn't stop ...... until someone turns it off. And I know that you know this too.


hug hug hug



Posted By: princessmeggy Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/08/09 01:11 PM
May I offer a different theory? My DH was similar to this at first in our recovery. He COULD NOT handle it when I spiraled down. His words were as if he were pacing the room wringing his hands, wanting to know but afraid to ask, what he could do to fix this. He couldn't. He just couldn't. Anything he said would be read by me as patronizing or insincere or dishonest. I had no trust left to trust his words that the past is the past. What's done is done.

After a few months of this, and him exclaiming several times that, "It's always going to be like this isn't it? You're going to punish me for the rest of my life", clearly not understanding, he finally got it. He learned that it was part of the healing process, there WAS nothing he could do at that moment to make it better. He finally learned that the best he could do was to hold me and to quietly just.be.there. as I healed. I remember one of the things he exclaimed often was, "I don't know what you want from me! What can I do?!?"

I didn't have the answer because I didn't know. It just was. I could not express what I was feeling without sounding pitiful to myself. I didn't have MB at the time, but you do.

Thankfully, we made it through and things are better than ever between us. We walked through the fire and survived.

Hang on, it's a rough road. If you FWH isn't sincere and honest about recovery, you'll know soon enough.

ETA: I only endured 1 1/2 years of betrayal, no where near the length of time you were betrayed. I imagine it will take you a much, much longer time to recover from this, if you can.

(((SVS)))
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/08/09 01:30 PM
SSS-
i agree with PM. my FWH didnt know either- and still doesnt know sometimes- what to do or say. he feels that when i am upset- its his fault. and sometimes goes into defensive mode.

men dont know how to listen without trying to fix- we, as women, can communicate and just HEAR each other's feelings, but men dont communicate in the same way.

we have struggled through this phase - and sometimes still do. but we are MUCH better today, than even last week.

you can get there too.

sf
Posted By: black_raven Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/08/09 02:11 PM
Hey sss,

Do not tolerate that garbage. Put your foot down NOW. I agree with pm that he probably can't handle your moods. My H did that to a degree as well and I told him the way it is...if he couldn't handle it then just leave. Waywards want to sweep the A ASAP and don't understand how consuming the A is in our head. He will get defensive but you need to put your foot down now. Do what is best for you. GM made this mess and needs to suck it up.
Posted By: Bubbles4U Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/08/09 02:22 PM
If the affair gets swept under the carpet too soon:

You will not have time to properly heal from the 26 years of abuse

He will go out and start looking for other affair partners and will not properly feel the consequences

It will all be fake and phoney, the fake love between you two.


He has to accept your pain for many years. It was a long period of abuse of you he did. He needs to accept his own pain as consequences. Every day for years. For the years of pain he caused you. And to develop his "nearly non existant" concience.
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/08/09 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by sunflower55
men dont know how to listen without trying to fix- we, as women, can communicate and just HEAR each other's feelings, but men dont communicate in the same way.

HEY, I resemble that remark!!!!!! :MrEEk:
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/08/09 05:43 PM
HI tst-
how are you and smb?
anyway- i think that is most men- you guys want to fix things and dont seem to see talking - to just get feelings out- as anything productive.

in sss's case- i know that you know that she needs to talk ALOT to get everything out.

maybe GM can learn the concept you explained to my H about "surrender". that concept alone has made a world of difference.

sf
Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/09/09 11:16 AM
While I understand what some are saying, GM not knowing how to react with SSS's pain, and his enormous guilt, what does SSS do when this happens?

Originally Posted by sadsosad
No idea. Right now I am l sitting here while GM tries to tell me what I am doing wrong. He is a changed man and it is not fair for me to feel this bad and accuse him because "now he is committed to be honest". He wants to forget all the past, he thinks he has been led to believe that it is OK to close the book on what he did. Somehow I am "just not getting it" or I am being "cruel". I can't deal with this anymore. I simply am done enough that I am willing to take the blame if it just makes it stop.
This is cruel.


No healing can happen when this is thrown back in her face and made to make her feel bad, intentionally or not.
If this behaviour supposedly fades with time, for the present is it a safe suggestion for SSS to ask GM to leave the house for a few hrs.???, when these situations happen?
SSS sounds so broken, and at these times telling GM to stop with his words is not or may not be enough, since GM is fired up too.





Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/14/09 10:06 PM
Just sending a hug,

hug

and hoping you are doing okay.

Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/16/09 01:30 PM
sss-
i'm sending you a hug too. ((((((sss))))))))

i am struggling with recovery too. you are much closer to d-day than me- so you are still in the shock phase. it WILL pass.

i know exactly how you feel. it sucks big time.

you know taht your whole past has been a lie and a screwed up mess. not like the other BSs on these boards who say that their Hs were so great - loving and kind- up until the affair.

so - the only thing to do is to start changing your life today. think of things to do to make YOU happy.

it worked for me.

the MB program will help you heal too- bc even though the AOs and DJ get some of the hurt out- they are ultimately bad for you. they increase your stress and make you depressed afterwards.

anyway - it has only been 4 days for me without one DJ or AO- and i want to eliminate them. i feel so much better.

i want to send you an e mail off the forum- so can you give the mods permission for your personal e mail?

take care, sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/16/09 01:57 PM
sunflower

Thanks. I have your email but I have not written to anyone off the forum for the same reasons I do not post very often now on the forums. I have had a bunch of outside commitments lately and have two more this week so I hesitate to write much because I get too far behind with my replies and it feels rude. Springtime on the farm, lots of work. All that and because I am in thinking phase and can not really verbalize my feelings as of yet. I do think the last few days have been enlightening and would love to share them but it will most likely come in fits and starts then I will get behind again in responding, big cycle. I will send you an email a little later and then you will have mine, I thought I had sent it but I guess not....it is hard to remember much right now. :crosseyedcrazy:

This entire thing sucks but with each new enlightenment comes understanding and a chance at some kind of comfortable solution. I will share mine in hopes that it might help you a little, yours have certainly helped me.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/16/09 02:02 PM
sss-
dont worry about not posting or e mailing- i only do it when i feel the need to. it shouldnt be a burden- only something that helps you or helps you to help others.

a thinking phase is good- and i'm glad to hear that you have some new enlightenments.

you have been through he11 and back- and you're still standing! take care, sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/16/09 03:08 PM
It is never a burden but I do not want to post only when I am miserable or without great thought. It is too important to treat with disregard and I hate to only post when miserable. LOL, and miserable is most of the time still.

Everyone here has been through hell and back. I thought I was special for a while, nobody had hurt like me. Well, now I know. We all suffer. I used to think that and EA was nothing and that I would have been happy to have suffered "just" an EA. Now I know. Betrayal is betrayal. It stinks and no one deserves that from another human.

I really hope to sit down this afternoon or evening and put down what I have been thinking about. It may just be one small step or I may have found something that makes a huge difference. I don't know yet but I suspect it might help you some, just maybe. Let me get the time and think it through and I will put it down. It is so hard to put feelings into words and have them come out right and it is so important that they do. Maybe it is something we can both use and work out between us by adding to it. That would be nice and maybe it is something you came to a long time ago and you can tell me how it worked for you.

I am so sorry you are back to feeling bad. You were so up before. I hate that I hate that I hate that. Rollercoaster. Man it really stinks.
Posted By: sunflower55 Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/16/09 04:53 PM
sss-
while i agree that betrayal is betrayal- and that the pain is immense for any kind- i do think that long term betrayal- as you and i have experienced- is so different than a ONS or one affair of 6 months- etc.

i need to rethink my entire life in a new framework that i was not aware of before- and reframe who i was and what i was doing.

what started our downward spiral was two things- 1) my H bringing up EE to discuss on our weekend away - and talking about an editorial that said she should not have written the book and become so public as it was hurting her children and 2) my husband telling me this past week that my long emotional e mails that i was sending him were too long for him to read at work and that he didnt have time.

this last one hurt alot- as it had taken forever for me to begin to express feelings to him again. now i dont feel safe again in doing that- even in an e mail.

so i wait to see if i can begin to trust him again- he has apologized, explained that he was rushed at work that day with deadlines, and promised not to do it again- yet i still dont want to be vulnerable with him yet.

i need to feel safe again before i do get expressive. has this kind of thing happened to you?

sf
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/18/09 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by Vittoria
I noticed that you were back posting and so glad ... until I kept reading. I'm sorry that you are so upset.
The few times I've popped in to lend what little light I had or just a 'hey', you responded back by wondering how I was, sorry that you didn't know my sitch or lending me a little light.

Well I do know your sitch and I did look at your thread but it had been left by the time I started really looking around. Frankly, if you had been still posting to it I do not feel I have much to offer anyone who seems to have gotten far past what I am dealing with. I have little confidence that I know anything at this point that could possibly help anyone who is ahead of me in this game and am loathe to post something that is not helpful. You are one of the amazing posters who I look for and am grateful for, I feel more your student. Do you know what I mean? Do you have an active thread that I could post to? I really would like to have more communication with you.


Thank you. It was a bad time compounded by the days coming that used to be important but were now only sad reminders of the lie my life had become and I was not taking it well and GM could not respond to me but only to himself. To give him credit, he did not say a word about our anniversary on that day. He actually did what I asked, not what he wanted to do and that is HUGE. I expected one tiny "happy anniversary" no matter how I felt about it because that is what he would have done before. Nothing. For GM that was an amazing feat, he did what I needed not what he needed.

Quote
The merry go round doesn't stop ...... until someone turns it off. And I know that you know this too.


hug hug hug

Yup, I do know that and at some point I will be ready to stop it one way or the other.

Thanks. (((Vittoria)))
I am sorry if I seemed selfish, I am/was at this point but will try to look outside my own situation more.


Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/18/09 07:09 PM
I need some help here with an idea. I think this works for me but it really is not MB perfect. If I understand it correctly we are not supposed to be bringing up the OW or the A and trying to move on ahead to recovery. I know that does not happen right away probably for most of us, at least not until all the shouting is over and we tire of it.

By carefully listening to all said here about GM I realize that he is a different animal. I have never had a loving marriage, really never even had a marriage to look back on or to try to work to get back. I have a chronic liar, cowardly, addiction prone taker who has no boundaries or conscience in regards to me. I have never seen him treat another breathing organism like he has treated me, therefore I know there is a good man in there but I need that good man for me too. I have someone here who has gone about his life as if I were his slave and he was independent without responsibilities. His father was just like this and had open affairs and treated GM's mother terribly. Still this is no excuse for a grown man who knows better. He made the choice as an adult to be this person to the one he was supposed to love and protect.

So far I have seen him struggle with all of that but he did struggle instead of running away or denying it all as he has in the past. He did not justify after the first few months and he has broken down many times as he has come to realize the extent of the damage he has caused me. I do not know the man I am living with now but I really like him, could love him. Yes I know he is a person of the lie but I do know that there is no way, NO WAY he could be cheating on me now. I have covered all the bases and he is only rarely away from me. We do everything, except help each other in the bathroom, together. There are many more things but it would be way too long, just let me say that he has changed and the change is good but it has been very hard for him to do.

Still, with all the change I can not even think of trusting it. I see it, I feel it, I need and want it but I run from it. The trust may never come back. He has written extensive EP's and goes over them many times a week. He reads them to me and if he follows them he will be the most faithful and trustworthy person BUT... those EP's are only as good as the person who has to do them. That is the big problem.

Over these months I have been encouraged by the deep pain he feels when he thinks about what he has done to me. Yes it is late. I do feel like he let himself do as he pleased for all those years and is now tired and I am the home base. Yes that pisses me off to no end. Once he has gone through all the women in the NE part of our state he is back to me right? There is nothing I can do about that just as there is nothing I can do about his future behavior. Taking care of me is going to require more than a set of EP's no matter how good they are. What I need is a man who will every day, maybe twice a day, sit down and remember what he has done. I don't want him to beat himself up with it (well kinda but not forever)but remember how he destroyed me. I need him to do this because when he does it he feels all the emotions normal people feel when they realize that they have been doing the worst things in the world. I know that if he gets past this a ways that he will begin to tire of it and eventually resent it a bit. I know that he easily puts the painful things away so well that he can forget them. I do not and can't live with him doing that this time. He has to keep it up front. He has agreed that it is a good idea. It feels like the only chance I have to make this work. Once he forgets it we are done.

Now, I need outside advice about this. Is it sound? Will it work with MB? Is it smart or am I being a bit dopey about all this? Please comment. I never thought I would make it this far but here I am. I am terrified to go any farther because of all of this. I need something and this seems to be what it is that I need.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 01:20 AM
SSS, I feel so terribly bad. I read your post to me and couldn't figure out where you were coming from, why were you feeling selfish ???
I went back and reread my post related to this one of yours.

Originally Posted by V
The few times I've popped in to lend what little light I had or just a 'hey', you responded back by wondering how I was, sorry that you didn't know my sitch or lending me a little light.
SSS, you are so very much one to take care of others, and yourself last.
When I wrote the first sentence, my thinking was in the second one, that I've bolded out. I meant that when ever I posted to you, you came back with concern for me, SSS being selfless despite her own pain.
I should have been more clear with this and I am so sorry that I made you feel like I was waiting for your support. That was not my intention, far, far from it.

And then you go on to write nice things, you are unbelievably kind.



Quote
Do you have an active thread that I could post to? I really would like to have more communication with you.
I don't know, I haven't read it for a very long time. I would love to pop in here to chat with you, I like your thoughts and sense of humour.

Quote
For GM that was an amazing feat, he did what I needed not what he needed.
I'm glad GM did what you needed.


Quote
I am sorry if I seemed selfish, I am/was at this point but will try to look outside my own situation more.
I am sick about this, again I am so sorry.
You did not need this.

You concentrate on you.

This is to anyone who is reading this ..... if I have not explained myself right this time, please call me on it.


Posted By: Vittoria Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by sadsosad
Now, I need outside advice about this. Is it sound? Will it work with MB? Is it smart or am I being a bit dopey about all this? Please comment. I never thought I would make it this far but here I am. I am terrified to go any farther because of all of this. I need something and this seems to be what it is that I need.
I'm not ignoring your last post SSS, but I'm not able to offer anything of benefit because I just don't know.
I can say that you sound a bit more grounded, and that is good.
Posted By: johnstwin Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 01:50 AM
Hi sss-

Quote
I know that he easily puts the painful things away so well that he can forget them. I do not and can't live with him doing that this time. He has to keep it up front. He has agreed that it is a good idea. It feels like the only chance I have to make this work. Once he forgets it we are done.

I think this is okay, but not if you are enforcing it. I think it's okay if it's GM's approach to making sure that he is taking care of you and what you need to recover-not the M per se-but to recover you.

It's more about restitution than beating him over the head with what he did. I think about Paul and his letters to the early churches. He constantly called himself "chief amongst sinners" and other such things. It wasn't because he was punishing himself. It was because he had been forgiven so much that he was aware of where he started and the grace he had received.

Have you read "Torn Asunder" by Dave Carder? It's another good resource for dealing with infidelity. He's a pastor who counsels couples dealing with infidelity as well. It might be helpful.

Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 10:55 AM
Quote
I am sick about this, again I am so sorry.
You did not need this.

Now I feel bad for making you feel bad because I felt bad! LOL, just joking....funny how that works isn't it? NO do not feel bad, you do not need that either. Let's just pass this by. I would never want you to feel badly about anything, I just felt selfish for not venturing out into so many threads and posting although I do read most of them.

hug
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by Vittoria
I can say that you sound a bit more grounded, and that is good.

I am feeling a bit more grounded. I think if GM can remember how he has lived, and this includes much more than just our relationship, he will have a better chance of avoiding being that person in the future. Now it all depends on how long he wants that. That is where MB comes in and I try to be the wife he wants. I will not be that person if his old pattern continues. If he is able to learn patterns that make him a real husband and a decent human being then we can reinforce each other and learn new patterns for our M. For me this is easy since I never wanted to be the person I had to be to survive the M. I can just be me if I can ever get past the hurt and distrust.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 11:26 AM
Thank you so much johnstwin. This is what I was looking for. There may be others who answer differently but you stated it perfectly when you mentioned Paul and restitution. I don't want him to sit there in pain every day for the rest of his life, I just want him to be aware of where he came from and to use that knowledge to not go back. If he forgets it and puts it away he has 61 years of terrible behavior that will be his norm. His norm is not going to do it for me, he must be the new man he claims he is. If he does that he will use his EP's and those EP's will feel more important to me.

I just read your post to GM. He totally agrees. He feels like it is one of the most important things he can do because it feels to me like the most important thing he can do to heal me.

Thank you, you always say things in a better way that I ever could. hug
Posted By: MicheleG Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 11:57 AM
SSS,

I have not posted to you before, I don't think, but I have followed your story from the beginning and what a story it is.

Quote
I know that he easily puts the painful things away so well that he can forget them. I do not and can't live with him doing that this time. He has to keep it up front. He has agreed that it is a good idea. It feels like the only chance I have to make this work. Once he forgets it we are done.


The majority of A's fall into the "oops I made a big mistake" category when the WS's fog clears. GM's does not fall into that category. His A's were the result of who he was and how he lived. It was a choice he made a long time ago and it became a habit. And we all know habits are hard to break.

Normally I would not advise trying to keep the A in the forefront of his mind and yours, but slowly working towards normalcy. I can't advise that in your situation. This was not one mistake, but a way of life and he must keep it in the forefront of his thoughts always or he will slip back into bad habit and behaviors over the next several years. But the problem lies in that HE has to be the one to keep his focus and not let it be locked away where he can easily let it go. If YOU keep the reminders in place then not only will you not R yourself, but you will LB enough that resentment will build because it will forever feel like punishment. And you seem to know that. So where does that leave you?

I'm sure you have established or are trying to establish good boundaries concerning the future. Have you locked them in place? Do you have one or two particular boundaries that deal directly with not only other infidelities, but certain behaviors as well? Those boundaries are what will protect you. Those boundaries are what you have control over.

GM should know what those boundaries are so HE can keep up the EPs that he must. It is his job. It has to be his job. Your job is to maintain your boundaries. So if you see him slipping you will have already sorted out what you will not stand for and you will act on it. Don't make it any harder for you to R. Just have those boundaries solid.

(((((SSS))))))





Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by MicheleG
The majority of A's fall into the "oops I made a big mistake" category when the WS's fog clears. GM's does not fall into that category. His A's were the result of who he was and how he lived. It was a choice he made a long time ago and it became a habit. And we all know habits are hard to break.

Normally I would not advise trying to keep the A in the forefront of his mind and yours, but slowly working towards normalcy. I can't advise that in your situation. This was not one mistake, but a way of life and he must keep it in the forefront of his thoughts always or he will slip back into bad habit and behaviors over the next several years. But the problem lies in that HE has to be the one to keep his focus and not let it be locked away where he can easily let it go. If YOU keep the reminders in place then not only will you not R yourself, but you will LB enough that resentment will build because it will forever feel like punishment. And you seem to know that. So where does that leave you?

This is exactly the problem I was having. I could not let things be too happy and seem too good because he would totally forget what he has done and what his inclinations (habits) were. It was holding me back and stopped my desire to even work the program. He as much as said to me that when things were good it seemed like none of the other stuff had happened. It was his way of life from the time he was tiny, he was never held accountable. In fact his parents thought his horrible behavior was funny and they used it as funny family stories. It was reinforced constantly and added to the fact that his father was just like GM had become. That has to go away. He now is aware that no one else thought it was funny, he has been told by mothers of his old childhood friends that they hated when he was around because of the destruction that usually meant and the total neglect of accountability by his parents. So, it is a huge thing for him to overcome. I am not certain that if it was my problem I would even want to consider taking it on. I have to respect that he is trying but still remain very cautious, perhaps for the rest of my life.

Originally Posted by MicheleG
I'm sure you have established or are trying to establish good boundaries concerning the future. Have you locked them in place? Do you have one or two particular boundaries that deal directly with not only other infidelities, but certain behaviors as well? Those boundaries are what will protect you. Those boundaries are what you have control over.

Yes I do. My bottom line 2 are that there be no more infidelity of any kind and that he respect me and our marriage as the most important things in his life. If he does those two things he will have changed the entire tenor of our M. Cross them and I am done with him. Pretty much he set his own boundaries so completely in his EP's (several pages long) that I can just use them. I have a few others I am mulling but the two main ones cover most of them so I don't know if I need to put them down as separate or just include them under the banner of respect. He does have several that require me to spot certain addictive behaviors that would lead to his risky behavior. I am very familiar with them and have called him on them once since we started this. He was grateful that I saw them and addressed what was causing the stress that would lead him to look around for other relief. I do NOT want to be his parole officer or his mommy but I think I can do that for him since it is pretty new at this point. In the future he has to learn to control all of it himself. I have enough of my own work to do grumble

Originally Posted by MicheleG
GM should know what those boundaries are so HE can keep up the EPs that he must. It is his job. It has to be his job. Your job is to maintain your boundaries. So if you see him slipping you will have already sorted out what you will not stand for and you will act on it. Don't make it any harder for you to R. Just have those boundaries solid.

Thank you. I do need to write them down so they are more solid. It is time, it has been long enough for me to have them figured out, at least the one's I need now at this point. I do also need to make some sort of plan for myself if it does not work. I saw Pepperband talking about this with sunflower and I think it is a very good idea, if nothing else it will solidify my respect for myself (and that is pretty low still) and my ability to take care of myself (always been very high, I know that I can).

Thank you for taking the time to write all of this and to plod through this disgusting story. I have a hard time justifying my desire to make this work. Part of it is sheer stubborness but the majority is knowing that this is in some ways a sickness that he has been dealing with, long established patterns. He has said that he never really questioned that it was not within his rights to do what he did. Some of that is plain entitlement, he is too old to not have known better and the rest was a pattern established long ago. His addiction habit was started by his parents with additions of either stimulants or narcotics in his baby bottle. He really has a lot to deal with on his very own. I will support him in that as long as he keeps our M and it's health front and center where it always should have been.

Originally Posted by MicheleG
(((((SSS))))))
Right back to you! Again, thank you.





Posted By: faithful follower Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 01:18 PM
Johnstwin's post reminded me of this passage

2Cor 12:7-9
7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.



New International Version (NIV)


I agree that he needs to not compartmentalize or "forget" what he has done. Not to torture himself or you but to not slip. He is too good at living a life full of independent behavior while being cruel to the one he promised to cherish.

Is he any closer to finding a relationship with God?
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: My husband is here now what? - 05/19/09 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by faithful follower
Johnstwin's post reminded me of this passage

2Cor 12:7-9
7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.



New International Version (NIV)

That is an excellent passage. It took me several reads to get it. I read it to GM.

Originally Posted by faithful follower
I agree that he needs to not compartmentalize or "forget" what he has done. Not to torture himself or you but to not slip. He is too good at living a life full of independent behavior while being cruel to the one he promised to cherish.

He thought marriage was no more than a legal piece of paper and that it did not mean he had to change one single thing about his life. Well, it did have the extra added benefit of having his own personal broodmare and scullery girl. To quote GM's father at my table..."Wench come and serve me!" complete with slamming of the silverware and a grinning GM getting to see his wife being treated the way he thought she should be. :twobyfour: He was more independent than most independent people I have ever known.

Originally Posted by faithful follower
Is he any closer to finding a relationship with God?

That you will have to ask him.
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