More details of my story here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2171463#Post2171463

I will take my story back to the basics because I’m going nuts trying to decide if exposure is necessary. I need help in distinguishing the level of betrayal from my W.

Here is what I know:

- They were sexual many years ago.
- She confided to me last week that she was disappointed when she learned he was going to get married (10 years ago). He divorced a few years later.
- He is a complete player and a total ladies man. He does not believe in marriage and plans never to get married again.
- Sexually explicit chats. In one instance my W suggested to him she would plan a trip and let him know in advance so they could meet up for sex.
- Flirtatious facebook conversations, my W would look at his pictures frequently.
- She told me he asked her to install skype to see her through web cam, she declined.
- Phone records show sporadic (once a month) phone calls and sporadic text messages… increasing towards October and November. Then NC after I confronted her. With the exception of 1 text message he sent her and she deleted in mid-December.
- She claims they had no physical contact. We do live thousands of miles away.
- She confided that he had come to town last year (2007); he asked her out to dinner and she declined.

Is this possibly just a sexual escalation in the “friendship” due to my inability to meet her needs? I certainly let myself gain weight and did not help around the house for a long time. I’ve been doing Plan A and now I’m different person, (40lb lighter). I help her with the house and try to meet her needs as much as possible. She acknoledges my change and she likes it. She also apoligized for hurting me.

Is it possible that I’m making a big deal out of something that is not?
If I expose I might be taking a disproportionate action towards her?
My evidence of A is weak. Is based in her chats and what I have put together based on her telling me little by little. I do not have evidence of physical contact.

I’m struggling with resolving what course of action to take. Expose? To whom? With what evidence? Is it disproportionate?

It is inappropriate. Expose to any and everybody who can put pressure on it to stop it.

Exposure is a tool for ending an ongoing A.

You've established that an EA likely occurred. However, you haven't established if it's ongoing. I therefore suggest holding off on the exposure until you're gotten such evidence.

On who it should be exposed to, the answer is "anyone you believe can adversely influence the A".

If I was you, I'd be more concerned about achieving open honesty with your (F?)WW, and concentrate on that instead.

Your post has resonated in me. THANKS VERY MUCH.

What tips would you give to achieve open honesty with my (F?)WW ?

When you say 'sex years ago' I assume you mean before you were married? If so, I agree that there doesn't seem to be much to expose there. Sounds like she looked over the cliff edge but didn't jump.

So, I'd look at this as a fortunate warning shot at work on the marriage.

Phone counsel with the Harley's if you can or go on one of their weekends. Honesty is just one aspect of their program.

By the way, I'd be tempted to send him an email that says "I have seen texts and emails between yuou and my wife that are totally inappropriate. If you contact her in any way whatsoever, at any time in the future, I am going to fly out there and deal with you."

Of course, what do I know, I'm up on harassment charges.

She has written an NC Letter. She has not sent it yet.

Even if she sends the NC Letter. Should I contact him and let him know I'm on the case? May be I should expose to his family only.

Send your own message as well, just as has been described.

For honesty, sit down with her and tell her you want her to be able to be completely honest with you, just like you would like to be, and that you'd like to initiate a once-a-month 'relationship talk' - where both of you promise not to get defensive, uptight, argumentative, etc., and will just listen to how the other person feels. Keep doing that until you both can safely talk to each other like best friends should.

Not sure how to define 'relationship talk' but the Harley's told us to set aside time every night to discuss what happened during our days, what we have planned, etc.

bwa?

My husband's affair was like your wife's - strictly emotional. It still devastated me.

"Just" because it's emotional doesn't mean it should be treated any differently than a PA. Take the steps Dr. Harley recommends - including exposure.

LOL...that temptation was there for me as well (to tell the skank I'd kick her [censored] if she ever contacted FWH again), but you do have to be careful on how you phrase things.

The OM is a lawyer. I do not want to face charges. Any guidance on what should my letter to him say?

do not send a letter to a lawyer

Hi again king,

I would send some of the most serious notes to his employer though.

Ask them if this is a professional note from a well trained staff member.

The letter might be a good idea. Your choice of wording? Perhaps not so good.

Something as simple as "I'd appreciate it if you IMMEDIATELY stop sending my wife texts and emails that contain inappropriate content, such as the attached", and attaching a few samples of his handiwork, should work. Also, consider not sending it until you've found a few targets for exposure, like perhaps his wife or girlfriend, his office, etc. When you've found them, copy them in on your message to him.

Now I'm scared. What is the worst case scenario?

don't be scared, really, I personally wouldn't worry about what his profession is, your asking for NO CONTACT, there is nothing illegal or threatening with that!

"please, I am asking you, man to man, stop contacting my wife, I would hope that you would comply with my wishes."

I would be glad, when I got my head on straight of course that my H did this, to me there is some kind of honor in this.

you crack me up, right wrong or indifferent gotta have respect for what ya did!

Kingrat,

There's nothing to be scared of....just use common sense in your letter and do not threaten (or imply threats)....and you'll be fine. Statements and requests are not against the law.....threats are another story. Also, limit your request....multiple mailings could be construed as harassment or stalking....again common sense. Something along these lines:

OM,

I'm aware of the inappropriate contact and relationship you're having with my wife. Adultery may no longer be "legally" criminal in most states, but it is still a crime, and a tragedy, for marriages and families. This includes mine. It is also a breach of ethics, and shows a complete lack of character and integrity. Please cease all contact with my wife.

Sincerely,
King

Always listen to Star*fish!

Does it matter whether my OM Letter goes BEFORE OR AFTER my wife's NC Letter?

Also, if I send a copy to his parents. Would that put me at legal risk?

Hey Starfish!

I'm not sure the word "adultery" is appropriate yet, but I do think he should try to scare the OM off.

The notes that have described the sexual points of contact are relevant. Do keep a copy of the old card that your wife has discarded. Can you say that you own this now.

Remember that to deal with a lawyer is no harm providing that the information is accurate. He can stymie his own company in this exchange.

Keep a call with Mrs Wondering. I think that she may advise appropriately providing that the letter is completely written.

I was getting that OM is a lawyer, am I confused?

kingrat,

"Could" it get you in trouble if you write his parents? Well depends on what you call "in trouble". The kaka will hit the oscillator....that's for sure, but if you mean sued or arrested.....well anybody can sue whether they have grounds or not (and he won't if you're not threatening or harrassing). But he can't have you arrested for just informing his parents of the truth....that their "son is chasing a married woman, and you'd appreciate any influence they may have to encourage him to do the right thing."

Hi MikeC2! Does "sexual relations outside of marriage" (adultery) include cybersex? Probably not for many people (and certainly not legally)....which is why I tried to remove it from the "legal" discussion and talk about the ethics. It's strong language though....so maybe with king's level of worry....he'd do well to replace it with "infidelity" which can definitely be used to include everything. Good point and nice to see you.

It depends what the definition of "is' is :-)

I think I would say something like "inappropriate communications"...

Should you expose? It's hard to say without a timeline. They had a relationship many years ago and she was disappointed a decade ago when she learned he was to be married.

But when were the sexually explicit chats and flirtatious Facebook conversations? If they were before you were married, no harm no foul. If they were 2 years ago and are no longer ongoing, exposure is not appropriate.

Exposure is to end an active affair. When did their affair end? From what I can tell it ended in November when you confronted her, and he tried contact once but she did not respond. To be honest, I don't see the point of exposure at all. She declined getting a Skype account, she declined dining with him when he was in town, she didn't respond to his text. Why would you expose?

You may want to ask your W to write a no contact letter that you review and approve, and that you mail.

You might also ask your wife to block him from her Facebook account, put an auto-delete rule in her email so she never sees emails from him, and to change her cellphone number or switch phones with you. Brainstorm with your wife on ways to enforce no contact (for life!).

Is this possibly just a sexual escalation in the “friendship” due to my inability to meet her needs?
What did your wife say when you asked her if it was a sexual escalation in the "friendship"?

If it was, it was NOT due to your inability to meet her needs. It was due to her poor boundaries and failure to protect the marriage. You may not have been meeting her needs, but for that she needs to talk to you and let you know what's going on and how she's feeling. Flirting with a person other than your spouse is never okay, and the reason is NOT unmet needs, it's a failure to protect the marriage and enforce boundaries.

Is it possible that I’m making a big deal out of something that is not?
I think you're making a big deal out of the wrong things. You need to be making a big deal out of the lack of openness and honesty in your relationship, and of her failure to protect the marriage. You don't need to be making a big deal of OM's futile attempts to get your WW re-engaged other than to send a NC letter and work with your wife to protect herself from further contact.

ROFL


I dunno....I think that's going too far in the other direction maybe. It diminishes the invasiveness....seems too safe (of a description) to be taken seriously by others. People will read "flirt" and not "cybersex/phonesex" which isn't as easily dismissed.

While you shouldn't be afraid of exposing....turtlehead is right....exposure is for ACTIVE affairs and this one appears to be over. Nothing since November, right? If contact resumes....then document and expose.

Thanks for your message turtlehead. My wife said a few things:

- She acknowledged flirting with him. I call it sexual escalation based on what I know of the dialogs.
- When she was crying she said: He made me feel pretty.
- When she got angry she said: You didn't touch me in months !!!
- At some point she said that she started to feel fat, old (???) and ugly. And she didn't like her life.

Dude, that stuff she told you is pure gold. She is craving attention. You need to compliment her all the time on how gorgeous she is to you. Don't make empty compliments, but tell her how bouncy and healthy her hair is, or how it's so shiny it glitters in the sunlight. Close your eyes and breathe deeply against her neck and tell her how wonderful she smells. Pay attention to her - actively pay attention - and compliment her on things you find attractive about her.

Don't make stuff up because she'll smell that a mile away.

Send her some flowers "just because". Take her out somewhere nice and tell her it's because you love being seen with her and you enjoy showing her off.

Make her feel like a princess.

Not sure I'd expose to OM family unless NC is broken. But I do like star*fish's letter.

How about if you add:

OM,

I'm aware of the inappropriate contact and relationship you're having with my wife. Adultery may no longer be "legally" criminal in most states, but it is still a crime, and a tragedy, for marriages and families. This includes mine. It is also a breach of ethics, and shows a complete lack of character and integrity. You might find cyber-sex with married women funny, I don't. I wonder if your colleagues would find the humor in all this as you do. Don't EVER contact my wife again.

Sincerely,
King


Let him [censored] a brick.

Thanks Turtlehead... I've been doing all that. I've been doing heavy plan A since Nov-15. I'm a new person. Even people at work tell me I look different.

The truth is that I do love her so doing all that does is not difficult at all.

She took the OM out of her facebook, out of her linkedIn, deleted from her yahoo contacts, changed her cell phone, and writted NC Letter (not sent yet). I guess this are signals that she seriously wants him out of her life.

I'm just waiting to agree and send the NC Letter. Send my own OM Letter to put this OM out of the picture. I feel all that needs to happen to move forward.

Can you write a copy of her NC letter for us to view?