Wow.

I just recently found out my wife was having an affair with another woman...yes...another woman...

Lots of lies, deception, etc. Needless to say, painful as most have experienced. I have been trying to work towards restoring anything that is left (3 kids) and salvage what I thought was the greatest thing ever - our marriage. I really started noticing in Sept, but didn't take the blinders off until November, only to be betrayed until two weeks ago (when I found out).

Anyway, tonight I needed a break. I told her I was leaving and needed some space to breath. So after only 45mins...I come home and she is MAD. VERY MAD. Angry that I even said I needed a break. She was screaming and dropping the "f" bombs and basically told me to not talk to her for several days and left the house. I have a good feeling on where she went, but am greatly saddened by her outburst, and concerned about her. I did keep calm during her outburst and was actually quite relieved when she left for the sake of my kids hearing her (they were sleeping).

Not sure that I have a question...but just needed to vent.

So how long was the A going on? Was there any inclination during the M that your W might be interested in Women? Any high school/college experiences? Did you encourage her in any way (like a lot of guys might joke around about) or give her the impression that you were ok with her being with another woman in any way?

Yup - the A-Bubble has now burst, and the WS is furious. Perhaps even more furious than expected, because out of fear that her "lifestyle" might be exposed, now that you know about it.

Nothing surprising here.

How old are your children?

Has your WW indicated that she will end the A?

If not, it's time to familiarize yourself with Exposure 101.

The confusing thing is....I am not certain this is what she wants....I think she became very good friends with her...and the next thing you know it led to something else.

Never once, did she ever indicate to me that she had feeling's for other woman. Not once.

My kids are all under 11.


She says she will end the A, but doesn't want to hurt her. WTF? Hurting me is what she is doing.

Yup, that's commonly known as "fog-speak".

Ending the A should include no further contact with the OW FOR LIFE.

If she's not prepared to agree to this, then she's not really prepared to end the A, and you should study up on exposure and other A-busting techniques here - you'll likely need them.

I do not think MB principles can be used with an A that crosses over to homosexuality.

There are many other issues to be addressed first.

I disagree with iam. Infidelity is infidelity and the MB principles apply regardless. The only situations in which the principles don't apply is when there is an addiction, as to gambling, alcohol, drugs, porn, etc., or when there is a legitimate emotional illness such as bipolar disorder.

Whatever you do, don't leave the marital home and don't let WW remove the children from the home. What I mean is, don't move out to give WW space, as that can be construed as abandonment on your part. Don't let WW move out with the children, as they need the consistency and reassurance of familiar surroundings.

Your WW's anger is normal. She's feeling guilty about betraying you and she's frightened that people will find out.

Is your WW still seeing OW?
Does your WW want to remain married?
Is your WW ready to never have contact with OW again for life?

Obviously his wife has a same sex attraction.

That won't 'go away' by filling EN's.

There is a greater dynamic at work here.

Forget MB and seek professional counseling by specialists.

Sure, if she's a lesbian then he can't win her back.

But if she is bi or was experimenting then he can.

Agreed. So they should find that out first.

There is nothing here that would disqualify the marriage from getting the same help as any other marriages. The Harleys counsel them just the same.

Just the possibility she prefers women. :RollieEyes:

Perhaps you know something we don't? Please enlighten us, Dr IAM.

Why do you persist with your juvenile antics. Really? Dr. IAM?

Can you possibly have a discussion without inferring your belief in your own superiority?

iam,

If you get the chance, would you shoot me an email at the address in my signature below.

thanks!

IAM, the Harleys have been very up front about who they could or couldn't help. They cannot help marriages where there is a subtance addiction or domestic violence. They have never indicated that MB concepts could not help a marriage that is afflicted by a homosexual affair. In fact, there have been others who did get help. This poster needs to understand that he can get help here just like anyone else.

Has she ever expressed an interest in women before, ever, that you can remember?

Like the others said, you need to figure out if she is lesbian or straight before you try to proceed with recovery.

Both views have merit.

MB MAY be able to help here.

MB MAY NOT be able to help.

MB doesn't always end heterosexual affairs and sometimes the affairs go longer than 2 years, etc. MB is a general guideline, and sometimes circumstances don't fit in with the program.

So it may work. It may not work.

I think there is merit to the concern that if she is more attracted to women and always HAS been more attracted to women, but married because she felt some pressure to conform, that she will not want to return to the marriage.

There is also merit to the thinking that if this is just experimentation, that she can be reminded of why she married and she'll return.

I think the most crucial part of MB is WHY the WS married. If they married for reasons OTHER than romantic love, such as to escape home, a pregnancy, etc, there is less likelyhood of it working.

MB is a program based on RESTORING romantic love. If that wasn't there in the first place, then it's unlikely to work.

I would point out that MB concepts don't end ALL affairs in the first place. [and make no such claims] In this situation, the BS can't exactly demand that the WS go to some "professional" to take some mythical test with a 100% guarantee to discern if she is or isn't a lesbian so he can decide whether or not to proceed. And what if he were able to save his marriage yet the test indicated she was "more' lesbian but he didn't know this because he never tried? What then?

This just does not seem like a practical concern to me that can be rationally resolved.

The Harleys can and do counsel these situations just like all the others. Like I said earlier, they are very unfront about who they can or can't help.


What do you base this on? This hasn't been my personal experience and I have never heard the Harleys make this claim. Can you elaborate?

x3

Unless she is an undercover lesbian, M.B. can still work.

I base it on the fact that the Dr Harley has said many times that the WS was PROBABLY in love with the betrayed spouse and if you can do many of the things done before the LB's started and less care was made in making deposits in the love bank then the wayward's taker will think the marriage still has benefits for them.

It's my impression. He may not have said it in the same words I've used. But a good portion of the program is geared towards RESTORING romantic love.

I'll see if I can find quotes where he says this. I'm sure I've heard this listening to the webcast. I'll see if there is text here to support this impression I have.

Found it


How to Create....

EE, you are right in that it can be restored, but it can also be CREATED. There are marriages here that NEVER had romantic love in which it can be created using these principles. There is nowhere they exclude marriages that have not experienced romantic love. Here is an excerpt from an article written by his daughter, Dr. Chalmers about a conference she attended:


Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marriage Therapy?

EE,

I have also read where Dr. Harley claims some measure of success in actually reforming people from their homosexuality ...

***edit***

MelodyLane,

I don't doubt that it can be created. However, if it never really existed in the first place, that is one more barrier to a spouse even considering the program.

Therefore I still stand by the idea that MB is less successful when there was no initial Romantic Love.

You have to understand, I consider part of any programs success the willingness of folks to engage in the program. I understand that Dr H and others will not treat those who refuse to enter the program as failures, since they didn't do what he suggested.

Frankly, in LB terminology, that's a DJ.

It may be right, it may be all them.


--OR--

There may be aspects of the program that need improvement to sell the program to the reluctant spouse.

I don't think I said it was impossible for MB to work when there was no initial romantic love. I seldom paint myself into such corners.

I think I said I believe it's less likely to work in circumstances where other drivers were the primary motivations to marry, such as escaping parents, an unplanned pregnancy, marrying for money, etc.

These folks are likely not going to be convinced by Dr H's promises for success. Therefore, saving the marriage, and or building romantic love is far less likely.

I think that is what I said, and it's not inconsistent with what Jennifer is saying here. While something can be done, the probability of it happening is a different question.

hurtingnside is a new BS who is here for help learning MB concepts. Those that wish to help him with that goal in mind, please continue to do so. No more juvenile disruptions to this thread will be tolerated.

Thank you.

Hurtinginside,

I hope the discussion hasn't chased you away and that you are at least reading everything on this site. Treat this as any affair, since your marriage can't recover until the affair ends. This means get snooping (you've already done some, I see but do more - get tangible proof). If the A is still active, expose. Exposure is the single best weapon against an affair, and I bet it will be even more effective in this case. Affairs thrive in secrecy. Bringing them out to the light of day can end them. But it has to be done swiftly and completely in a nuclear fashion, so the WS has no time to prepare anyone (make it seem like you are a raving lunatic or something).

As for her anger, this is extremely typical for waywards. The reason is because you've "ruined" her ability to cake-eat. She has become accustomed to being happily married and having something on the side at the same time. Like a spoiled child, when you take one of these away, she throws a temper tantrum. This is the expected response to anything you do that damages the affair. It's a good thing, really.

And when you exposed, be prepared for her to say she was going to work on the marriage but now you've ruined that. It is also typical.

If your marriage is to have any chance whatsoever, the affair has to end. It doesn't matter if it's a hetero or homosexual affair - no marriage can survive and active affair.

EE, I don't know if MB is less successful when there was no romantic love in the first place, I have never seen any indication of that whatsoever and it was not so in my own case. But I would agree there would be a barrier if there was no willingness. If there is no willingness, obviously the program couldn't work; a program can't work if you don't work it. MB cannot control a person's willingness, of course, as long as people have free will. But it will WORK successfully even though there was never romantic love in the first place because this program CREATES romantic love.

Dr Harley did mention that many couples who come to the MB weekend have at least ONE reluctant spouse and they are often able to turn that around. So sometimes they are able to make inroads even with the less than willing by selling them on the notion of romantic love.