Marriage Builders
Posted By: jgirl123 He is not sure what he wants - 02/16/09 05:06 PM
I just found out that my husband has been communicating w/ another woman. He says it was not physical, but i do not believe him from what I found. I have already forgiven him, as I cheated on him a few years ago too & he used this site to save our marriage. He seems stand-offish & distant to me now. I have poured out my heart & asked him to please stay & he says now he just doesnt know what he wants. I need help to save my marriage. In April, it will be 17 years of marriage & i dont want to throw it all away. Please help me!!
Posted By: turtlehead Re: He is not sure what he wants - 02/16/09 08:30 PM
Welcome to Marriage Builders.
Read about Emotional Needs (ENs).
Identify his top ENs and do all you can to meet them.

Read about Love Busters (LBs) and eliminate them completely.

Don't talk relationship/marriage talk to him right now.

Is OW married?
Do you have children (if so how old)?
How did he meet OW?
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 05:05 PM
Thanks for the reply. Yes other woman is married. She also has a young child, and we have a teenage daughter. My husband told me I cannot tell her husband about the affair or contact her, or he will leave me. He says they do not need to be involved. He asked me to go to the MB weekend to try and work on things. His actions however do not match his words. He will not even wear his wedding ring. When I asked him why he just said its in a safe place and things are not right yet. I am so confused by his behavior that I am at a loss. He still wants to be sexual, but I feel very weird about it, as I know he had a lot of sex with the ow. I am concerned about my health because I don't know if he protected himself. For all I know she could be pregnant or have an STD. He is even on this website asking for help and most people have told him that the ow husband should know.

Our daughter is almost 16 and very smart. She knows there is something going on. She has been very angry with him lately for the way he is treating me. She has become very protective of me. Her and I walk around on eggshells because we cannot read his mood from day to day.

I am beginning to question where to go from here. Thanks for your help.

Jgirl
Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 05:39 PM
Tell the OW's husband right away, and don't tell hubby you are going to do it. Of course he is probably reading this now. So tell.

I can't believe that a marriagebuilder betrayed spouse would turn around and do it to another man. I've read hubby's posts but didn't respond.

Then tell your daughter about the affair. Teens deserve to know.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 05:42 PM
Quote
My husband told me I cannot tell her husband about the affair or contact her, or he will leave me. He says they do not need to be involved.

jgirl, the most important thing you can do to save your marriage is to expose it to the OW's husband and do it SOON. Today if possible. Affairs thrive on secrecy and your H knows this. This is why he threatened to leave you if you exposed him. He knows you will ruin his affair. But, if you don't ruin his affair, you are more likely to be divorced.

Your marriage can survive his temporary anger at being exposed, it can't survive an affair.

Expose the affair to everyone, everywhere, starting with the OWH. Call your H's parents, your parents, close friends, family, your children. Your daughter desperately needs to be told. Kids can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with the truth.

Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer and you are harming your marriage by keeping this affair secret.

Dr. Harley: "I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 06:29 PM
Hey why not take out a commercial on the 10 o'clock news...Make up some flyers and have our daughter hand them out up and down the neighborhood and in the school.

Yeah, kids have a right to know about there parents affair....absoletly brillant...How about we start taking donations right now for the years of counseling that will cost... I just love the genius posters on here that have a paragraph of the situation and start providing MUST DO NOW rec's.

Specifically for my wife...
There is no affair to protect...I have confessed ALL the details to you.

It's now your choice to work on rebuilding our marraige. Considering the affair is completely over. Were here together and looking for the future, whatever that beholds. Taking the path of further exposure is your choice. However, I will see this as only taken as a vendictive action aimed to inflict even more damage.

Yes, I've been in your shoes as a betrayed spouse. Exposure was explained to me by Steve Harley as a tool to end an affair. Let me ask you. Once your affair ended, did I continue to beat on you by telling everyone about what you had done? Why! Because it as counter productive to building our relationship.

Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 06:41 PM
Something else to ponder....
FYI- Straight off the opening forum page...

Please Note: With the exception of the Marriage Builders® Weekend Private forums, the advice offered on these forums is offered by your peers - it is NOT professional advice and should not be taken as such. If you want professional advice, please look at information about the Marriage Builders® Coaching Center.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 06:43 PM
JGirl, your husband's fogbabble is evidence that he is trying to PROTECT HIS AFFAIR instead of your marriage. He is trying to keep the door open for he and he OW. He is the LAST PERSON who is qualified to say what is best for your marriage.

Please follow my advice and expose to the OWH ASAP. That way the OWH can watch from his end and your H will not be as free to pursue the OW.

Marriage Builders very much advocates exposure to the other BS and the children.

Dr. Willard Harley - WHO IS A PROFESSIONAL:

"I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."

Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 06:45 PM
TJ - Mr. Fallen -

Why do you think the OM shouldn't have the information that his wife CHEATED on him?

None of his business?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
However, I will see this as only taken as a vendictive action aimed to inflict even more damage.

Inflict more "damage" to who or what? The affair? Because it will not "damage" the OWH to know what you have done to him. But your affair with his W did "damage" him and he can't protect himself from you and his wife if he doesn't know. He needs to know what you have done so he can protect himself from you and get STD testing.

It will not "damage" your daughter to know the truth about what has happened to her family. Your adultery has "damaged" her family, and knowing the truth will lessen the damage you did. Lies do not make children happy. Kids can deal with the truth, not lies.

It will not "damage" you to face the consequences of your actions. Rather, it will help you see the affair for what it is. That is therapeutic.

So, where is the "damage?" I don't see where it "damages" your victims or even you. Exposure to your other victim and your DD would be beneficial, not damaging.

The only thing it will truly damage is the AFFAIR. Is that a problem for you?
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 06:55 PM
Sorry Mr. FH, but you are waaaaay foggy or still in contact. Either way, your W has every right to contact OWH and should.

You are a day or two out of contact and in the book SAA, Dr. Harley specifically says that the BS's should work together to ensure NC.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 06:58 PM
Dr. Willard Harley, a "professional":

"Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by jgirl123
Our daughter is almost 16 and very smart. She knows there is something going on. She has been very angry with him lately for the way he is treating me. She has become very protective of me. Her and I walk around on eggshells because we cannot read his mood from day to day.

I am beginning to question where to go from here. Thanks for your help.


Please be honest with your daughter. You know in your gut that it's the right thing to do.

In recovery it will sttrenghen all the relationships.

I found out about my own mom's affair from a neighbor, wow, not very honorable was it. Honesty with your daughter will go a long way. She is a young woman, not a child.

My own 15 year old daughter is sitting next to me as I type this. She knows what I did, and had the right to know this also. She is an amazing young lady and she knows we will tell her the truth about relevent issues in our lives.

As far as your H not approving, it's not his choice!

If H is threatening to leave, maybe you need to show him the door. It will hurt, but it will stop him from playing this silly power and control game.
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:13 PM

The great thing here is everyone has an opinion.

People that propose life changing solutions based on a sentence or paragraph worth of background into a situation are themselves being irresponsible of there own actions.

I suppose it's really easy from behind a keyboard looking into a computer monitor...

At the end of the day eveyone comes here for support. Some offer plans of action instead. Ultimately it's up to each of us that come here for that moral support and decide what plan best fits.





Posted By: shinethrough Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:19 PM
Quote
Hey why not take out a commercial on the 10 o'clock news...Make up some flyers and have our daughter hand them out up and down the neighborhood and in the school.

Well you should understand by now that secrecy is an enemy to your R. Your secrets, and your WW's secrets is what has undone your M.

It's obvious that you don't understand that yet, and perhaps your WW doesn't either.

You should understand that you reap the rewards of what both you and your WW have sown.

Devastation in the worst form..............Yup.

Where you go from here is really based in the humbleness of the two of you to God's commands.

Put up a wall if you wish, but you will regret it, and your M will become even more vunerable. Don't miss this last chance to show your W that you are both vunerable.

Do what you have to do and both of you humble yourself to your weakness.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
The great thing here is everyone has an opinion.

And that is just YOUR OPINION. The "opinion" of a falling down drunk who is high on the fumes of his affair and is in no way qualified to lead the recovery of his own marriage. The drunk should not be driving the car, in other words.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:33 PM
Jgirl, I would strongly urge you to just drive to the OW's house and knock on the door. NOW. Tell both the OWH and the OW that you know about the affair. Your H is scared to death of this exposure for good reason: HIS AFFAIR IS NOT DONE.

I suspect that his fear of you contacting the OW stems from some lie he has told her about you. For example, he may have told her you "separated" or getting divorced. That is very common.

Keeping it a SECRET allows him to continue in secrecy. You can deal a blow to the affair if you expose it like this.

But you need to do this NOW because your H is reading here and he will likely FOREWARN the OW. The OW will then tell her H that you are some jealous wackjob who imagines her H is cheating. Then when you do expose, the OWH will think you are a nut.

And don't think he won't do that to you. He is scared to death you will ruin his affair and is probably sneaking out to the garage as we speak to call the OW and warn her so she can pre-empt you.
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:41 PM
AMEN....
The ultimate driver for our "marriage" car is God. The rest of us are just technicians and team mates working for a common goal of our "marriage" car.

Appears we will continue to disagree about what level of disassembly of our marrage and family is needed before a possible restoration can begin.






Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:44 PM

what was that strange sound??? grin

JGirl, your H is gaslighting you and I would implore you to take my advice and get this affair exposed before he pre-empts you. He is in damage control mode and you had better be quicker and more strategic.
Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:45 PM
Please don't bring God into it. You just got done commiting adultery, and are hiding the fact from a betrayed husband. Better to repent and let him know the sin you commited against him, his family and child before you start claiming that God is driving your decisions.
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
The great thing here is everyone has an opinion.

People that propose life changing solutions based on a sentence or paragraph worth of background into a situation are themselves being irresponsible of there own actions.

I suppose it's really easy from behind a keyboard looking into a computer monitor...

At the end of the day eveyone comes here for support. Some offer plans of action instead. Ultimately it's up to each of us that come here for that moral support and decide what plan best fits.

Dazed/Mr_FH...

You are REALLY disappointing me here...Your current fog is as thick as peasoup...Jgirl needs to expose immediately to the OWH, regardless of your anger or your fog, and you KNOW it...You've been here as a BS...YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THIS!!!

I also remember that you had no problem telling your then 12 year old dd about her mom's affair...Now that the tables have turned, you feel it's different, because?????????? No sir...It is not different...You are not special or unique...You are exactly the same as every other wayward - maybe even worse because you have MB experience...You KNEW just how damaging affairs are and did it anyway...to your family and to another family...This is making me heartsick...

Jgirl, not sure if you remember me or not, but you and I talked on the phone a few years ago when you were embroiled in your affair...Should you need someone to talk to, I'm still here...My email addy is in my signature line...

Wake up Dazed and knock off the defensiveness...It is very unbecoming...

Mrs. W

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by believer
Please don't bring God into it. You just got done commiting adultery, and are hiding the fact from a betrayed husband. Better to repent and let him know the sin you commited against him, his family and child before you start claiming that God is driving your decisions.

Agree. It is a little sickening to see you cite God when you are committing adultery and advocating a cover up from your victims.

I wouldn't be mocking God if I were you, Mister.
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:52 PM
Mel- You're a riot...

Sneaking out of the garage right now... Very funny!
Well, kinda hard to alert the former OW while in NO CONTACT,eh?

btw- I suggested my wife come to MB. NO SECRETS...RIGHT... She has read my post and has asked me to read hers. Were you suggesting we shouldn't be doing so? Hmmmmm....

Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:52 PM
He is mocking God, while holding up a high hand. Reminds me of my ex. This will come back to bite him.

Meanwhile he is threatening his wife that he will leave. YUCK. He has her too scared to try to save the marriage. He is protecting himself.
Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:55 PM
From his first post -

"Those life long MB experts, like wonderings, mel, and others, please help me."

Guess that was another lie.
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:56 PM
Mocking God?
Praying for his forgiveness and help to atone for my mistakes....

You're right... I don't get how that is mocking.
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:58 PM
Dazed...

I want you to think for a minute about how painful it is to Jgirl to have you PROTECTING the OW instead of HER and your marriage and family...It's painful for me to watch, so I can only imagine how deeply Jgirl is being cut by this...

STOP AND THINK!!!!!!

Mrs. W
Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:58 PM
"Praying for his forgiveness and help to atone for my mistakes...."

But keeping your sin against your affair partner's husband a secret...............................
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
Mocking God?
Praying for his forgiveness and help to atone for my mistakes....

You're right... I don't get how that is mocking.

Yeah, you are praying alright. Praying the OW's H doesn't find out what you are doing to him! rotflmao

what is that sound!??? :RollieEyes:
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 08:00 PM
why is this foghorn on this thread wasting our time?
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
Mocking God?
Praying for his forgiveness and help to atone for my mistakes....

You're right... I don't get how that is mocking.

Dazed,

Forgiveness comes after REPENTANCE...Repentance means to "change your mind"...Part of changing your mind must include understanding why OWH must know the damage you and his wife have done to him...

Can you see this?

Mrs. W
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 08:08 PM
Why is jgirl not posting here? Is she reading this thread?

Or is Mr Repentance grin keeping her away from the computer somehow?? think
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 11:25 PM
Dazed - a further coverup here is not going to work. If you really are serious about recovery, exposure to OW'sH and your daughter is essential.
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 11:38 PM
OK. If I were to buy into your theory!

So, where is the line of people suggesting the scrambledegg set his kids down and tell them about their mothers affair?

Why is he not being instructed to inform their entire family about his wifes mistake?

Is he also supposed to research his wifes OM and make sure everyone that know's him knows about his affair with bbb.

Who here thinks that is reprehensible?

Who here thinkgs that will heal their marriage?

Me and Jgirl are in no different situation.... So should we all be doing the same nuclear exposure???

Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/01/09 11:45 PM
Well, you lost me there. I haven't been reading that thread.

But please accept my apologies for being so angry at you.

I still think you are 100% wrong, but I'm looking at your user name and hoping that you do know right from wrong.

Plus, it does take courage to post here as a WS, especially when you know the MB stuff.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
OK. If I were to buy into your theory!

So, where is the line of people suggesting the scrambledegg set his kids down and tell them about their mothers affair?

Why is he not being instructed to inform their entire family about his wifes mistake?

Is he also supposed to research his wifes OM and make sure everyone that know's him knows about his affair with bbb.

Who here thinks that is reprehensible?

Who here thinkgs that will heal their marriage?

Me and Jgirl are in no different situation.... So should we all be doing the same nuclear exposure???

WE don't talk to falling down drunks. Where is JGirl?
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:19 AM
Dazed,

Answer a simple question for me please...Why should OWH not know the truth about his life?

Mrs. W
Posted By: missinshadow Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:40 AM
I'm new here but even I can see he is covering things up. Also it seems jgirl is not allowed to be on this site anymore b/c she has not responded. He's doing all the talking. Same BS that my WS is doing. Keep on him.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:47 AM
yep, he is in affair protection mode and he isn't even clever about it. Waywards are AMATUER bullcrap artists.
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
OK. If I were to buy into your theory!

So, where is the line of people suggesting the scrambledegg set his kids down and tell them about their mothers affair?

Why is he not being instructed to inform their entire family about his wifes mistake?

Is he also supposed to research his wifes OM and make sure everyone that know's him knows about his affair with bbb.

Who here thinks that is reprehensible?

Who here thinkgs that will heal their marriage?

Me and Jgirl are in no different situation.... So should we all be doing the same nuclear exposure???

No one said anything about nuclear exposure Dazed. That is purely and simply your own SPIN.

Her Husband has a RIGHT to know as you are well aware. His knowledge will help ensure NC. You assaulted him behind his back and he must be told.

Your daughter also KNOWS there is something very wrong and is old enough to be told.

Were you the BS in this situation you would have already done this and weaseling around it will not help you, your wife or your marriage. Show some character Dazed instead of weaseling around. Had you not settled for crumbs in recovery yourself and settled for nothing less than a full blown MB recovery you would not be in this situation now. So when we recommend to your wife the full MB way, my advice to you is "Suck it up Princess"
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by bigkahuna
my advice to you is "Suck it up Princess"


rotflmao
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by bigkahuna
my advice to you is "Suck it up Princess"


rotflmao

Hey!!! I thought that *I* was the PRINCESS around here!!! flirt

No wonder Dazed is ignoring me, he is trying to usurp my territory!!! cry

Mrs. W rant2
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:22 AM
You know Dazed - the MB advice you are so dismissive of NOW with all your WS foggy spin is the exact same advice that enabled you to save your marriage 3 years ago.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Hey!!! I thought that *I* was the PRINCESS around here!!! flirt

move over, girl, there is a new princess in town! grin
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:03 AM
FYI- OWH left me a voice message this evening. He stated death PROMISES over and over.... I called him back and talked with him for a few minutes. Just asked for 30 seconds to talk man to man. I appologized numberous times for what happened. Let him know that me and my wife had already written, signed and sent a promise to never contact his wife or family ever again. It was post marked last week. I encouraged him to focus on his family as I am doing the same.
He surprisingly allowed me to speak, but still made numerous PROMISES against my job and life.

We'll see what happens now.
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
FYI- OWH left me a voice message this evening. He stated death PROMISES over and over.... I called him back and talked with him for a few minutes. Just asked for 30 seconds to talk man to man. I appologized numberous times for what happened. Let him know that me and my wife had already written, signed and sent a promise to never contact his wife or family ever again. It was post marked last week. I encouraged him to focus on his family as I am doing the same.
He surprisingly allowed me to speak, but still made numerous PROMISES against my job and life.

We'll see what happens now.

What should happen now, seeing as you cannot be trusted with the truth, is your wife should speak to him.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:07 AM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
FYI- OWH left me a voice message this evening. He stated death PROMISES over and over....

hmmm, that sounds like a FISH STORY if I ever heard one! "hey wife, you don't have to call the OWH! He knows!! He just called me and gave me death threats! So don't bother calling and exposing me to the OWH!" grin

dat is some good bullcrap! rotflmao

Quote
. I encouraged him to focus on his family as I am doing the same.

Did he LAUGH when you gave him marital advice?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:13 AM
Jgirl, pick up the phone NOW and call the OW's house and ask her to put her husband on the phone. Verify EVERYTHING your husband is saying here. He is very foggy and is likely lying about all this.
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:13 AM
Can you let jgirl123 off her leash so she can come and post to us to confirm your bullcrap please?
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Jgirl, pick up the phone NOW and call the OW's house and ask her to put her husband on the phone. Verify EVERYTHING your husband is saying here. He is very foggy and is likely lying about all this.

I completely agree!
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:15 AM
BK- You have know idea who I am. Your judgement means nothing.

For those that are so good at projecting imagination into a comment....

According to OWH... My wife met him at his house 3 or 4 hours away. Claims she gave him my phone number so he could call me.
She lied to me about what she was doing today and has not returned my calls. Was at her sisters house this morning, when I was supposedly preventing her from using the computer, Mel...

Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:18 AM
On the contrary - you waywards are all the same and having been married to a wayward I know you very well Dazed.

Please ask your wife to post here again on her thread.

rotflmao
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
BK- You have know idea who I am. Your judgement means nothing.

For those that are so good at projecting imagination into a comment....

According to OWH... My wife met him at his house 3 or 4 hours away. Claims she gave him my phone number so he could call me.
She lied to me about what she was doing today and has not returned my calls. Was at her sisters house this morning, when I was supposedly preventing her from using the computer, Mel...

We will see...... Trust but VERIFY is our motto! smile

Melody "Ronald Reagan" Lane grin
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:25 AM
Very funny!
Yeah, I made it all up... Everything... RIGHT...
JGirl can't post or take a phone call because, mmmmmm.....use your imaginations...You're all so good at it.

I am sure this is going to be really entertaining...

Can't wait....

One thing you should all know, I don't run...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:28 AM
You are so brave. cool

wasn't it was your wife who had to tell the OWH because you couldn't face him? crazy
Posted By: missinshadow Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:30 AM
Then where is she??? You should tell her to get on here to prove your not keeping her off.
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 02:32 AM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
Very funny!

You started it Dazed. I'm sure you will see this exactly like the rest of "us" when you have your rectal cranial extraction.
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 03:14 AM
hi all & thanks for all the replies. I actually did drive to OK & go to the OW's house. i did not know the husband would be there as I only went there to confront OW & tell her to stay away from my husband & that it was important enough to me to try & salvage what's left of my "marriage" to drive all that way & tell her so. The husband was in fact home & came outside due to all the yelling the wife was doing, as she called me a liar & told me I was crazy & insane & no wonder my husband wants rid of me. So...my husband was not holding my captive, I truly was on a very long road trip. It was a really nice drive & I was able to clear my head on the way home. I do not know what tomorrow brings, maybe we can work things out & maybe we cant. I just dont know----thanks to ALL of you for trying to help & give guidance. I was once in my poor husbands shoes & I do not wish what he is going thru on anyone--it sucks soooooooooo bad that you feel as if you would rather be dead. Hopefully, he will see that we have put in almost 17 years & why stop now--I hope he will still want to go to the MB weekend, but if he does not, well then that is his choice. Thanks again--
JGirl
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 03:31 AM
Bravo to you, Jgirl!! We kept your H entertained today. Or maybe he entertained us, I don't know which! laugh We hadda smack him around a tad bit, but he will live! grin
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 03:32 AM
This is totally salvagable when he pulls his head out and the fog clears. A MB weekend is a great idea and hopefully you will both do the work required to recover this time. It really is a shame you didn't step up to the plate before but it's never too late.

Many of us here have recovered our marriages using Dr Harley's principles and we'd love to hep you two as well. Just need to wait till the fog clears and your H stops being so defensive and such a smartass.
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 03:34 AM
also wanted to say that I did NOT give the OWH my husbands phone number--his wife already had it. I want to tell you that the OWH was very thankful to me for letting him know (in such a weird way) & he also had his wife (the OW) call & tell me how sorry she was for lying to my face & denying everything while I was standing right in front of her--also for screaming at me & threatening to call the police on me...also for shoving her finger in my face (ya--it was that crazy) He also told my husband he was very sorry as well-- The OWH sounds like a guy she should try & hold on to. I told her good luck as they do have a young daughter & I hope this never happens again.
That is all I have for now---I am so drained & pretty much an emotional wreck. Like I said, we will see what happens tomorrow..thanks again.
JGirl
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 03:42 AM
You did good.
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:27 AM
btw- The OWH called me after I returned his death threats call requesting that I allow him to let the OW appologize to my wife. He wanted to do this because I called him back and appologized to him first.

Before anyone here believes this, we must first let Mel the all knowing make sure it's not a lie..
What a joke...





Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:38 AM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
btw- The OWH called me after I returned his death threats call requesting that I allow him to let the OW appologize to my wife. He wanted to do this because I called him back and appologized to him first.

Before anyone here believes this, we must first let Mel the all knowing make sure it's not a lie..
What a joke...

Dazed - shooting at the helicopters is not going to help you here. You are going to be very embarassed at your tantrum here in a few weeks.
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:44 AM
HI JGIRL,
I'm sorry for your pain.. I know it's tough...

You won't remember my MB name but we spoke on the phone a few years ago. I just wanted to let you know that Dazed called me about a week ago to talk about this situation.

We had spoken for many hours while he was the BS. He called me VERY embarrassed, VERY humble and VERY angry at himself for the mistake he made. He was wanting to find out the best way handle the no-contact and the best way to ease your pain.

No one knew better than Dazed what he needed to do. But he was wise enough to know that he may be a little too close to the situation to make good choices. He also knew he would get flamed here.

We've been talking over the last week and I can assure you that the A was more a bad judgement call as he was pursued and under the influence of a little too much alcohol and a little too little self esteem.

He is TOTALLY committed to you again jgirl and I'm confident that if you guys spend your energy on finding the needs EACH of you need filled by the other you will have a Marriage better than you ever thought possible. loveheart

You can safely put down the weapons of "expose" and destroy. mad he war is over. hurrayConcentrate on recovery. I've never been a fan of the "expose" tactic myself and neither was Dased. He was bullied into it and never felt very good about it. I know you remember how bad it made you feel. It hurt him to see you hurt.

So.. relax... you don't have to tell everyone from the family to the paper boy about the A. smile Spend your energy on something productive in your marriage..that takes enough energy on it's own. :crosseyedcrazy:

I also having been though this wished I had never told certain members of my family because they chose my side and hated my WW. This made our recovery much harder. We were over it but THEY WEREN'T!! So think about how many people you want to "unravel" when you guys are way down the recovery road.

If you haven't told you wonderful daughter DON'T.. She doesn't "deserve" to know as many will tell you here. She deserves to be a KID....and is too young even at her age to totally digest it without therapy... and if she picks a side... you will be unraveling her down the road too.

Dazed called me...if he was TOTALLY in a fog I'm the LAST guy he would have called. He knows where I stand. If he didn't call...I had no way of finding out. He wanted out...and HE IS OUT!!

Good Luck and Prayers pray Frank
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:45 AM
Dazed...

BK is right, you are gonna be terribly embarrassed by your words here in the coming weeks...take some deep breaths, slow down and get a good night's sleep...

Realize that the people posting to you and Jgirl have nothing but the best interests of your marriage at heart...Really...

If you want something to do, click on my name, go back and read my first foggy posts here and realize that yours have been just as bad...

Lay down arms, Dazed and allow people here to guide you...

Remember that recovery takes a humble heart...

You guys have had a long day...Go hug your wife and relax...

Mrs. W
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:51 AM
BK- Maybe your a bit presumptous, but I appreciate your tone.
Thank you
Also, I owe a big thank you to everyone who took their time to post. Atleast entertainment all around... I am sure some mutal respect loss as well... No worries.. Atleast we all know where we stand, right?

Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:54 AM
Quote
hmmm, that sounds like a FISH STORY if I ever heard one! "hey wife, you don't have to call the OWH! He knows!! He just called me and gave me death threats! So don't bother calling and exposing me to the OWH!"

dat is some good bullcrap

I think you owe Dased an apology now that jgirl confirmed what he said. It takes a lot of courage to come here as a WS with all the LOVE you guys show...

Let's be CONSTRUCTIVE....not DESTRUCTIVE here and help these two out with their RECOVERY.. grin

Good Luck and Prayers Frank
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:55 AM
O_M_G!!

No one has said he should do any further exposure except to his daughter and OW'sH.

Hardly the paper boy.

Frank if you have spoken to him and are unable to see how foggy he is as evidenced by what he has written here then I would seriously question your judgement even without all the other NON MB advice you have spewed. Maybe you should set up your own site so poor babies like Dazed can spew their fog without getting flamed.

How many marriages did you say you'd saved?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:06 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
Quote
hmmm, that sounds like a FISH STORY if I ever heard one! "hey wife, you don't have to call the OWH! He knows!! He just called me and gave me death threats! So don't bother calling and exposing me to the OWH!"

dat is some good bullcrap

I think you owe Dased an apology now that jgirl confirmed what he said. It takes a lot of courage to come here as a WS with all the LOVE you guys show...

Let's be CONSTRUCTIVE....not DESTRUCTIVE here and help these two out with their RECOVERY.. grin

Oh no, he is not owed an apology for the automatic distrust of the "word" of a fogged out wayward. He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. There is good and ample reason to distrust every word out of his mouth and that is a result of HIS OWN BEHAVIOR. Everything a WS utters is a LIE until proven otherwise. period.

Rather, he owes his wife and the good folks here an apology for his destructive behavior that led to this distrust. No one here has any reason to trust a word out of his mouth. And that is because of his behavior and nothing else. It does not take "courage" to come here and spin the folks on this board, that is ridiculous balderdash.

It would be IRRATIONAL to trust the "word" of a foggged out wayward. So, lets try and be RATIONAL here, buddy. The only one here who is "destructive" is the WS, not the posters who rightly question every word out of his mouth.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:16 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
I've never been a fan of the "expose" tactic myself and neither was Dased. He was bullied into it and never felt very good about it. I know you remember how bad it made you feel. It hurt him to see you hurt.

Frank, just an FYI, but did you know that Dr. Harley is a "fan" of the exposure "tactic?" Yes, he is. And he happens to be the founder of Marriage Builders and the author of several excellent books on marital recovery. I believe he has a saved a marriage or two over the years. He calls exposure the "beginning of recovery." And thats exactly what JGirl did today. She gave her marriage the best chance by telling the OWH. Let's look at a post he made 11-18-08:

Originally Posted by Dr. Willard Harley
"I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2160385#Post2160385
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:19 AM
Quote
Frank if you have spoken to him and are unable to see how foggy he is as evidenced by what he has written here then I would seriously question your judgement even without all the other NON MB advice you have spewed. Maybe you should set up your own site so poor babies like Dazed can spew their fog without getting flamed.

How many marriages did you say you'd saved?

First of all BK I would NEVER be arrogant enough to even DREAM I saved even ONE marriage. The only one saving any marriages that I KNOW of is Almighty God....And NEVER would I be as arrogant to think I saved any marriages by simply
regurgitating puke someone ELSES principals (Harley's) and then take the credit.

Now that I've defended myself from your rude attack... back to Dazed... he was ABLE to be humble talking to me because I DIDN'T flame him. I'm not coddling him...but I know it's not a type of person that has an affair. It's a person in a certain type of situation.

AND... he called me.... fogged out people generally don't call someone that will tell them to STOP the A they tend to seek the people that will SUPPORT it...DON'T THEY.. :RollieEyes:and they rarely come here and stick while being flamed...

You BOLDLY called him a liar.. HE KNEW he wasn't now YOU KNOW he isn't be a MAN and apoligise...that's all then MAYBE you'll have a furtile mind to work with instead of FLAMING and puting him in J-U-S-T-I-F-I-C-A-T-I-O-N mode...

AS for not knowing Harley's principals....I could never find the section where he suggests EXPOSER could you post a link for me? Also... the link to the part about telling CHILDREN???

Good Luck and Prayers... Frank
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:27 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
If you haven't told you wonderful daughter DON'T.. She doesn't "deserve" to know as many will tell you here. She deserves to be a KID....and is too young even at her age to totally digest it without therapy... and if she picks a side... you will be unraveling her down the road too.

I guess that "many" would include Dr. Harley. Let's see what he has to say about that:

Originally Posted by Dr. Willard Harley
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. here

2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Originally Posted by Dr. Willard Harley
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).

His post to another lady who asked if she should tell her 10 year old son:

Quote
As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children.
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:29 AM
Quote
The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.
Right... in extreme cases I'm sure.. we'll see what Harley writes... but based on his Plan "A" I doubt he would print flyers for a spouse that.

1) Is in the home
2) Is repentant and reveiled the A to the spouse
3) Has ALREADY sat down with BS and ALREADY wrote the no-contact letter (IT WAS HIS IDEA...!!!!!!!!!)

In a case where the BS is away etc...etc... in this case it just seems like more dirt to clean after....

And ML... BSs are people not things...Love is the best cure for hate...

GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:31 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
First of all BK I would NEVER be arrogant enough to even DREAM I saved even ONE marriage. The only one saving any marriages that I KNOW of is Almighty God....And NEVER would I be as arrogant to think I saved any marriages by simply
regurgitating someone ELSES principals (Harley's) and then take the credit.

I see. But you feel very qualified to contradict Dr. Harley on his own board with your disapproval of his "tactics." What exactly are your credentials?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
Quote
The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.
Right... in extreme cases I'm sure.. we'll see what Harley writes... but based on his Plan "A" I doubt he would print flyers for a spouse that.

I have no idea what you mean since no one has ever suggested "printing fliers," however, you can read Dr. Harleys words yourself. What his wife did today was an act of love exposing the affair to the OWH. What his wife did today was a foundational MARRIAGE BUILDERS concept that will serve to RECOVER THE MARRIAGE.

Did you read what Dr.Harley wrote, Frank? "Now I know that for most couples it [EXPOSURE] marks the beginning of recovery."

Keeping the secret, as you are suggesting, is not an act of love, but an act of ENABLING. That ain't "love," friend.

Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:38 AM
Quote
exactly are your credentials?

Been here 2 years longer than you... crazy What are yours?

And this is the last of this.. this is JGIRL's Thread and this isn't helping....

In the old days it was kinder here...We WELCOMED WSs because it was better that they talked to US not the "World"

We only flamed the really UNREPENTANT ones....

Things change...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:39 AM
oops! hit submit too early! reposted
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:43 AM
Quote
i have no qualfications at all. I am only qualified to sell soft drinks.

So we are equally qualified caring people that are actually on the same team then....We ALL care about marriage... that's why we're here... same team...same team.... hurray
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
Quote
exactly are your credentials?

Been here 2 years longer than you... crazy What are yours?

I have no qualfications at all. I am only qualified to sell soft drinks. THAT IS WHY I QUOTE DR. HARLEY, WHO IS QUALIFED.

So, again, what are your qualifications to CONTRADICT HIM?

Quote
In the old days it was kinder here...We WELCOMED WSs because it was better that they talked to US not the "World"

We only flamed the really UNREPENTANT ones....

Things change...

That is not quite honest. First off, we WELCOME the repentant WS's NOW. [dazed is hardly "repentant"] You did not flame the unrepentant ones in the olden days, you coddled them. So yes, it was a "kinder" place for THEM.

But not for betrayed spouse. When I got here in the "olden" days, the only ones who were FLAMED were BETRAYED SPOUSES. BS's were chastised and told they were "lovebusting" if they exposed the affairs or made any "disrespectful judgments" about adultery. They were quickly shouted down and shamed if they said anything truthful about the ugliness of adultery. They were openly attacked by emboldened, entitled WS's and no one defended them. It was quite sickening actually. I happened to be the beneficiary of some of those attacks when I was brand new here.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 06:02 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
Quote
exactly are your credentials?

Been here 2 years longer than you... crazy What are yours?

You know what? I know people who have been here as long as you who don't even own a single Marriage Builders book and know absolutely nothing about it, much less practice it in their own personal lives.

Isn't that amazing? Yet they believe they deserve a special status as a "veteran" over someone who has been here for ONE YEAR and has studied the program and actually practices the concepts in their own lives. They show up occasionally for a special cameo appearance to remind others of their special status as a "veteran."

However, I know people who have been here for ONE YEAR that know more than me about Marriage Builders. Those are the ones that deserve special reverance, IMO. Those are the ones that impress me. Seniority does not impress me.

Anyone can sign up on a board. A monkey can do that. But I respect someone who KNOWS this program inside and out and actually LIVES IT.

Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 06:27 AM
There's so much I could say here ML.... but I now recognize you just like to argue... I waved the white flag but you have to be RIGHT...
Well... wanna know something... this thread isn't about YOU so enough....
You see the A as ugly... so does everyone.. DUH...But the difference between the "Old" MB and the new one is people here see the WS as UGLY too...that's the problem...they are not... NO ONE is above it if they are in the worst of Harley's empty love bank situations...NO ONE...Dazed is PROOF of this.
Dazed is one of the best human beings I've ever met....He's not usually argumentative (like you) unless backed into a corner... anyone would find it easy to argue with YOU ML...LOL

Most of us understand Harley's principals...they are pretty simple.. that's why they work...

But we all are different and some prefer Plan "A" some prefer "exposure" some Plan "B"

But...people here argued with Dazed when Steve Harley himself told Dazed to stay in Plan "A" longer....

Because THEY see the WS as an evil worthless being...I wonder if their "Recovered" spouses are even FULLY forgiven....

And as I said before I have witnessed MANY MANY recoveries...but the glory belongs to GOD ALMIGHTY... not US... and not even Harley.... so off the high horse....again... we're on the same team...

Quote
Those are the ones that deserve special reverence, IMO. Those are the ones that impress me. Seniority does not impress me.


Right.....I really have no need for your reverance... I'm here to try and help jgirl....stop looking for your "special reverence" ML.... It's not about you.....AT ALL...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 06:35 AM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
Quote
Those are the ones that deserve special reverence, IMO. Those are the ones that impress me. Seniority does not impress me.


Right.....I really have no need for your reverance... I'm here to try and help jgirl....stop looking for your "special reverence" ML.... It's not about you.....AT ALL...

See, thats just the thing, Frank, I am not looking for special reverance. I don't remind people of how long I have been here and then pretend I am QUALIFIED because I have been here "two years longer than you." Ya know what I mean, Frank? wink

Quote
Because THEY see the WS as an evil worthless being...I wonder if their "Recovered" spouses are even FULLY forgiven....

I doubt you have any idea how others see waywards, Frank, unless you really are Madame Cleo in drag. grin That is a pretty presumptive statement that you can't possibly back up. What I see around here - and I actually am around here on a regular basis, you are not - is great support of waywards, so I don't know how you can make such a presumptive generalization when you haven't been here for years.

Anyhoo, thanks so much for stopping in for your annual cameo appearance and setting us all straight. [or has it been 2-3 years?] Now, can we get back to the subject at hand after your untimely disruption on these people's thread?
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 07:06 AM
Hmm Frank - I see what WS's do as being ugly - the rationalisations, the defensiveness as exhibbited here by dazed is indeed ugly. Most people on this forum will cheer on a WS trying to earn their "F". Dazed is nowhere near close to doing that yet. I assure you people here will recognise it when he turns that corner.
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 08:09 AM
Quote
I don't remind people of how long I have been here and then pretend I am QUALIFIED because I have been here "two years longer than you." Ya know what I mean, Frank?

You asked me my qualifications.... I answered you.. YOU (and BK) were the one that questioned me...I wasn't even writing to either of you...I just stated a fact is all...

Quote
doubt you have any idea how others see waywards, Frank, unless you really are Madame Cleo in drag. That is a pretty presumptive statement that you can't possibly back up. What I see around here - and I actually am around here on a regular basis, you are not - is great support of waywards, so I don't know how you can make such a presumptive generalization when you haven't been here for years.

I lurk here ALL the time.. I jumped in because Dazed is a good old friend... Here... let me "BACK THAT UP" for you...

Here are a few of the things YOU said in only the last 10 hours....and you say you WELCOME WSs????
?

Quote
why is this foghorn on this thread wasting our time?

Quote
WE don't talk to falling down drunks. Where is JGirl?
Quote
Yeah, you are praying alright. Praying the OW's H doesn't find out what you are doing to him!
Yeah....I wonder how many you pushed away in your day....

now... let's see how much you learned in your thousands of posts here......and all the great "insight" you shared with jgirl...

Quote
hmmm, that sounds like a FISH STORY if I ever heard one! "hey wife, you don't have to call the OWH! He knows!! He just called me and gave me death threats! So don't bother calling and exposing me to the OWH!"

dat is some good bullcrap

[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]
Quote
He is scared to death you will ruin his affair and is probably sneaking out to the garage as we speak to call the OW and warn her so she can pre-empt you.
[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]
He was talking to me...
Quote
Jgirl, pick up the phone NOW and call the OW's house and ask her to put her husband on the phone. Verify EVERYTHING your husband is saying here. He is very foggy and is likely lying about all this.
[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]
Quote
Or is Mr Repentance keeping her away from the computer somehow??
[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]

So...... what are YOUR qualifcations again?

This WRONG advice came out of your dislike of WSs...Simple....

[color:#CC0000]
YOU SHOULD NOT GUESS WHEN PEOPLES LIVES ARE ON THE LINE....
THIS IS NOT A GAME!!!!!!!!!!
[/color]
Now.. THIS time you are dealing with...

A SPOUSE THAT IS HOME
A SPOUSE THAT CONFESSED......WASN'T CAUGHT....
A SPOUSE THAT ALREADY...(THAT'S ALREADY NOW) SAT DOWN WITH HIS WIFE AND WROTE A NO CONTACT LETTER AND MAILED IT...

But... in your infinate wisdom... you can't see the TREMENDOUS difference in this situation because... YOU HATE WSs...so much you are blind... you remind me of another (won't mention her name but it started with a "P") that hated them too...

jgirl.... she'd be flaming you too....believe that!!

So...ML....I will pray tonight that God soften your heart so you can REALLY help.....

Posted By: piojitos Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 09:32 AM
Well then edit again and get "infinate" right as long as you are spell-checking.

MrsW - I thought you were spot on.
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:01 PM
Hi, JGirl and mr_fallenhero.

I'm not as experienced with MB as you are, but if I may recommend something...

This is all very raw to both of you and you each need to process what has happened and what is happening. While you need each other during this healing process, you also need to work within yourself. Therefore I strongly recommend that for now, anyway, you do not post on each other's threads. A comment that you may make to defend your spouse or yourself on the other's thread can send that thread in a completely different direction than what the originator may have intended.

I'm impressed you took matters into your own hands today, JGirl, taking the drive and confronting the OW yourself, and talking with the OW's BH. I can see why you're exhausted.

How are you doing now? And is there anything that the folks here at MB can do for you?
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by jgirl123
My husband told me I cannot tell her husband about the affair or contact her, or he will leave me.

Don't take instructions about what you should and should not do from a crack-addict. The OWH needs to know, and know NOW before your WH and the OW have a chance to spin their own story.
Posted By: piojitos Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:43 PM
Er...done and dusted.
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:46 PM
wow--that was a lot of reading!! Thanks to you all --I do want to mention that my husband only confessed AFTER he was caught & after I begged him to tell me & he has only told me bits & pieces, but that is plenty, I assure you. I had to do all of the investigative work on my own--he was very unwilling to tell me anything & in the beginning he lied about everything.Even when I caught him red handed w/ detailed info!!! Just thought I would throw that out there because it was not him just confessing & wanting to make everything all better. In the beginning he DIDNT KNOW if he wanted to even stay married to me. he just said it was OUR problem & when I contacted her, the OW, I thought he was going to come out of his skin!! (she also denied every time)
After everything that has happened, he is extremely angry at me so i dont know where we will go from here.

Frank--I do remember you, thanks for all your help. My husband really respects you. The funny thing is, I didnt even know my husband drank. But it seemed when he got back from his "trip" he was very seasoned at ordering drinks & going out--but the reality of all this is--as much as he thinks I dont know him, I knew something was up while he was still in TX on "the trip"--that is how connected we really are--then he showed me a group pic of all the participants & i actually picked HER out of the crowd!! I knew something was weird when I would call him--he was just very different--women just know--wives just know--

Also want to let you all know that I have not & dont plan on telling any other people or family members about all this. I am way too embarrased as it is.
As far as our daughter goes...she already knows (something) & I told her last night to just not worry so much & go give her daddy & hug & she did just that.
he slept in the guest room last night & I slept w/ our daughter for part of the night--he woke very early & was out of the house by 6a.m.---so here I am--confused. Oh well, I better go get ready for work, I bet I will get sooooo mucg done there!! Ha!!
I will let you know if he brings me the divorce papers.
Frank--May I call you?? I would like to tt you.
Thanks-
JGirl~
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by piojitos
Er...done and dusted.

Yup - just caught up. Wow.

BTW, "Dazed" isn't a FWH yet, and his BS should not be confused about that. Notice that he was prepared to throw his M away if the A was exposed? That's not the actions of a FWH.

Posted By: piojitos Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 12:55 PM
I don't think he was prepared to throw away M if exposed. I think he was trying to coerce BW not to expose with the methods at his disposal. Many if not most WS's make this idle threat.

QED: Since BW did expose and WH is still at home, apparently he lied.

Hmmm...Imagine that - a wayward lying. Go figure.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by piojitos
I don't think he was prepared to throw away M if exposed. I think he was trying to coerce BW not to expose with the methods at his disposal. Many if not most WS's make this idle threat.

Exactly. He's a WS, NOT a FWS. You've just confirmed the point I was making.



Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
A SPOUSE THAT CONFESSED......WASN'T CAUGHT....

WRONGO! laugh

Originally Posted by jgirl
I do want to mention that my husband only confessed AFTER he was caught & after I begged him to tell me & he has only told me bits & pieces, but that is plenty, I assure you. I had to do all of the investigative work on my own--he was very unwilling to tell me anything & in the beginning he lied about everything.Even when I caught him red handed w/ detailed info!!!



blush blush

Originally Posted by PleaseHelp
]But... in your infinate wisdom... you can't see the TREMENDOUS difference in this situation because... YOU HATE WSs...so much you are blind... you remind me of another (won't mention her name but it started with a "P") that hated them too...

jgirl.... she'd be flaming you too....believe that!!

So...ML....I will pray tonight that God soften your heart so you can REALLY help.....

I would suggest that some help is needed; help to train you recognize fogbabble when you see it.


  • " My husband told me I cannot tell her husband about the affair or contact her, or he will leave me."

  • "Dazed: Hey why not take out a commercial on the 10 o'clock news...Make up some flyers and have our daughter hand them out up and down the neighborhood and in the school."

  • "Dazed: Yeah, kids have a right to know about there parents affair....absoletly brillant...How about we start taking donations right now for the years of counseling that will cost..."

  • "Dazed: Taking the path of further exposure is your choice. However, I will see this as only taken as a vendictive action aimed to inflict even more damage. "


Apparently, he LIED about leaving if the affair was exposed to the OWH and when that threat didn't "work", concocted more manipulations. Imagine that, a lying, manipulating wayward! laugh

I guess all those years of "lurking" has not qualified you to tell the difference between a WAYWARD and a FORMER WAYWARD. You can't even recognize FOGBABBLE when you see it. TEEF Maybe you should lurk a little more? smile

Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:16 PM
While getting ready for work & thinking about all I have read--forgot to mention to you all that my husband called me right after the OW husband called him--he told me he gave him death threats & threated to get him fired from his job.---I CALLED THE COUPLE RIGHT BACK & TOLD THE HUSBAND I WOULD CALL THE POLICE FOR THE DEATH THREATS & TOLD THE WIFE SHE WOULD LOSE HER JOB AS WELL IF SHE WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO GO TO THE HR DEPT!!!!!!
I told my husband this & he told me he didnt need a mother & he didnt need my help. forgot to mention that tid bit of the story. So after thinking about it all, that is probably why they called to say they were sorry. Oh well, at least they did that.

Also, to Frank----I know my husband called you as I kept asking him to call you to get some help & advise. I was so happy when he said to me one day--hey, I tt Frank today--I was thrilled!!
So, my thoughts are really screwed up now & I think I sound a little bitter & mad, but I am not--I just wanted to get my points in there that I really am TRYING to work this all out- I feel like the work has been one sided but I do realize that this all takes time & I have been there---as my husband kept reminding me that he has done so little compared to everything I did to him in the past--to him, this seemed like nothing--it was so minimal compared to the horrible acts I did. He is right--I am awful for doing what I did when I had an affair & I will never forgive myself. I went to therapy, heck I even prayed--( i am NOT religious) so, what is done is done & I have to live with it everyday. I love my husband. I want to stay married, but if it cant work, then the sun will still come up & I still have to be a mom & function as a person. (that sucks!)
so thanks again & if you read this (mr fallen) Hope u have a good day. love ya. J
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by jgirl123
While getting ready for work & thinking about all I have read--forgot to mention to you all that my husband called me right after the OW husband called him--he told me he gave him death threats & threated to get him fired from his job.---I CALLED THE COUPLE RIGHT BACK & TOLD THE HUSBAND I WOULD CALL THE POLICE FOR THE DEATH THREATS & TOLD THE WIFE SHE WOULD LOSE HER JOB AS WELL IF SHE WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO GO TO THE HR DEPT!!!!!!

JG, your H and the OW still work together?

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:27 PM
JGirl, you did great yesterday and I applaud you for exposing to the OWH. The OWH was wrong to make death threats, but I would point out that what your H did to that man is immeasurably worse than calling up in intense anger and making death threats. He had an affair with the man's wife, for crying out loud. The OWH made a threat to your H, your H actually caused harm to the OW husband that will take him years from which to recover.

That man was just reacting to the assault that was inflicted on him by your husband, your H has no excuse. Do we punish the rape victim when she kicks her rapist?

I would implore you to call MrsW if you call anyone for help. She knows your H, knows your situation, and knows the difference between a WAYWARD and a former wayward. She is a SUPPORTER of your marriage, not a blind enabler.

She mentioned that she once offered her phone # to you. Do you still have a way to contact her? Hang in there and it will get better! hug
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:35 PM
Jgirl...

You are more than welcome to email me and we can exchange numbers if you would like...Years ago we did talk...Not sure if you remember or not...I can assure both you and Dazed that I am firmly planted on the side of your marriage...I very much want to see you guys recover your marriage completely and wholly this time...

Also, Mr. W and I have been to the MB Weekend, so if you have any questions about that, I'll be glad to answer anything that I can...

My email address is the_wonderings@yahoo.com

I'm rooting for both of you...You did GREAT yesterday Jgirl, and Dazed will thank you for it one of these days...You fought for your husband, marriage and family yesterday - I'm proud of you...WAY TO GO!!! hurray

Mrs. W
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 01:40 PM
Thanks, MrsW.. smile
Posted By: mr_fallenhero Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by jgirl123
So after thinking about it all, that is probably why they called to say they were sorry. Oh well, at least they did that.

Appears jgirl123 needs to listen to my saved voice messages from OWH...Message #2 clearly states why he wanted his wife to call. Oh, silly me. I should probably forward them to ML for an authenticity inspection...

As for being caught red handed and confessing... Further clarity regarding the events that took place.
Found was a hand written list of music and a some comments in my brief case.
Each time attempting to come clean, there would be some kind of vengful and emotional out burst. IE- Pulling pictures of us off the walls, tearing them up. Demands I turn in my wedding ring and to take hers back... Moving large number of my personal belongings into our guest room. Pulling numbers out of my cell phone and start cold calling and investigating. If I had not confessed, all there was to go on was a list of music.
Each time I have been openly honest the truth couldn't be handled. So, full disclosure took more than a couple of days to dispense. At this point, all the truth about everything is on the table.
Regardless of what other here think, I want my wife to know I am the one that made a huge mistake and used very bad judgement. I have taken responsiblity upon myself to confess details, end the affair, write and issue the NC letter, suggest MB weekend workshop, and ask for your's and God's forgiveness. Throuh everything I have stayed in the house by yourside even when asked to leave and go be with the OW. Stayed home and did my best to comfort at your lowest point. Yes, there is much healing required for both of us. You know me, I am always a optimist, glass half full guy. I believe in us, and always will. Love is patient, kind, caring, and without demands. That's how I have and will always love you.

As of this point, I am no longer going to participate in this kangaroo courtroom of a website. I will continue to study authorized MB materials and put my faith in God.
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:12 PM
frown
Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:39 PM
"Throuh everything I have stayed in the house by yourside even when asked to leave and go be with the OW."

I don't get this. Was he planning to move in with OW, her husband and 2 year old?
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:40 PM
well I am sorry to read that my husband is not going to post here anymore as I know at one time he found it very helpful.
I dont need to write about all the things I found, but it was much more than a list of songs, if you remember correctly mr. F--it was 2 pages of valentine gift ideas for "how to spend Valentines day w/ your long distance lover" & so on-it does not even matter anyway what you sent her or what she gave you or what I found or how I found out or if you came clean or when I knew the truth or whatever!!! Yes, I was mad!! I told you not to wear your ring at that point because you were not acting like my husband--I also gave it back the next day & cried when you no longer wanted to wear it anymore.

The deal is---I dont even care about all that anymore--I told you a long time ago that I forgave you--& I did & I do..I just want my husband back--the guy that I know, not the lifeless sad depressed guy I have now--believe me, I know it takes time to get back to being yourself....so I will wait. I will still read these posts as they have been helpful to me. I hope my life can move on one way or another--living in this weird limbo sucks but I guess I deserve all I get so I will swallow it down & take it.
I dont know what else to say except thanks again. I will keep trying. Later--
Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:47 PM
"I hope my life can move on one way or another--living in this weird limbo sucks but I guess I deserve all I get so I will swallow it down & take it."

Really, I don't think you DESERVE all you get. Time to follow Mrs. W's lead, and turn your past sin into a blessing. She has helped thousands of folks here.

You have taken action to protect your marriage, and the marriage of the OW. Please have trust that you are doing the right things.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:49 PM
Dazed, perhaps you are on the right track NOW, but if yesterday's posts are any indication, you are a long way off. Going through motions when caught red handed, after lying for months, hardly reflects real remorse. Your true mentality was demonstrated loud and clear on this forum yesterday when you tried to manipulate your wife into keeping your secret from the OWH.

For you to try and OBSTRUCT exposure to the OWH reflects a very wayward mentality that is focused on escaping the consequences. And to even go so far to manipulate her into keeping your secret by threatening to LEAVE HER is hardly an indicator of someone who is repentant, much less being honest. Avoiding the consequences of your actions is very wayward behavior. I can see why you cling to an enabler given your state of mind. He is the only one who CAN'T see that you are very fogbound.

Anyone who doesn't point that out to you is not your SUPPORTER, but your ENABLER. And folks here [most of us anyway, there are always the few useful idiots] are not going to ENABLE you.

I hope that you can hook up with more clearheaded members who offer real support, such as Mortarman, MrsW, MrW. They will not tell you what you WANT TO HEAR, but what you NEED TO HEAR. Because they are a REAL FRIEND to your marriage. [some of us have put the word out to Mortarman, btw]

I do wish you well, Dazed. I really do, and I hope one day you can see that when the fog wears off. And may God help your enablers if you ever wake up. You will not remember them fondly, I promise you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by jgirl123
well I am sorry to read that my husband is not going to post here anymore as I know at one time he found it very helpful.

JGirl, really it is best that he not post here when his mind is so fogbound and wayward. He is leaving because bullcrap has a short shelf life here and he knows it won't work here. In his state of mind he seeks ENABLERS, not those who would tell him what he doesn't want to hear. We can help you much better if he is not HERE spewing his fogbabble and interfering with your progress.

I am concerned that he is surrounding himself with ENABLERS offline, rather than folks who care enough to tell him what he needs to hear. Some of us have put the word out to Mortarman and I hope he will listen to him if he calls.

And there is no way that you "deserve" his affair. You paid for your crime in full and did not ask for his.

My biggest concern is that it seems he works with the OW? Is that the case?
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
Each time attempting to come clean, there would be some kind of vengful and emotional out burst.

Interesting - your BW got upset when she found out about your adultery. Who would have thought? wink

Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
Each time I have been openly honest the truth couldn't be handled.

Maybe you should have been openly honest the FIRST time, so there would not have been subsequent "times"...


Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
Love is patient, kind, caring, and without demands.

You mean, demands like "don't tell the OWH or I will end the M!"?


Originally Posted by mr_fallenhero
As of this point, I am no longer going to participate in this kangaroo courtroom of a website.

That's of course your choice to make. To me, the first thought that went through my mind was " that sounds like typical WS-Speak". WS's do have a tendency to blame the results of their bad choices and poor behaviour on other people, after all. In any case, I do wish you and your BW well in your recovery.



Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 04:59 PM
Melody - As I recall, he works for the same company as OW, but in a different state. My concern is that she needs support offline because although Hero says he is done, I imagine he will keep reading her posts.

I really hope that she will contact Mrs. W so she can develop a plan to recover the marriage.
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:02 PM
answering the question --(does he work w/ her)--she works at same company but in another state, they do not have to communicate in order to do their jobs (that is what he told me) --they met for the first time while they were both at the same training seminar in TX for about a week & 1/2 but had communicated about work stuff before they actually met in person.

JGirl~
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:17 PM
Thanks JGirl. That could be a problem. How does he plan on preventing contact at seminars in the future?

And I think believer has a good point about your H reading your threads here. Yesterday, he spent a good part of the day arguing and debating with those who were trying to help you. You aren't going to get far if you have to deal with that every day. Could you get in touch with MrsW?
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:26 PM
I hate to break it to you, JGirl, but just because they have no reason to contact each other for their jobs, doesn't mean they won't. I know, because my FOM and I live 2000 miles away and we communicated via company IM (safe stuff but with code words and sometimes innuendo) and company email and my H would never know even if he wanted to. Even after we went NC, I'd see FOM copied on company emails and see when he'd log into company IM, so while he and I weren't communicating directly, I was being triggered left and right, wondering if he was feeling the same rush of emotions when he saw my name as I was having with his.

The economy is tough and I know no one wants to leave their job. But since your WH and OW were able to grow their infidelity even though they're in different states, don't think they can't continue it either. I'll take him at his word that NC is being maintained, but even just seeing her name on a memo can do things that may lead him to reach out, "just to see how she's doing." Ideally he'll leave the job. If not, be very very cautious.

Another thing... You two are communicating through this thread. To each his or her own, but something to consider... If you find it easier to communicate right now electronically and through written word (my H was that way post D-day), send emails to each other and don't argue through MB. While reading your H's responses here lends insight to his thinking that MB folks will find interesting, having him post here feels like it's really distracting you. If you don't want him doing so, ask him to leave it be and post on his own thread that he started last week. He can communicate to you directly through email, Skype, journaling, (goodness forbid) talking, or a myriad of other ways.

Take care, JG.
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:37 PM
I have been scared of the IM because I know they do have that at his work. As far as him leaving his job--he has worked there for about 12 yrs--she has worked there for about a year. He started working for the company when she was only 15 years old, so I guess I feel like she needs to be the one to quit.
I have also emailed Mrs W, so hopefully I can start tt her about all this & try & get more help.

Thanks-

J~
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:44 PM
And also sorry to have to go there but... Have either your H or you been tested recently for STDs? Your WH should do this. If he agrees, you go with him and you get to review the results as well. If he doesn't agree to do this soon, go get yourself checked. Please.
Posted By: believer Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 05:55 PM
So glad you have hooked up with Mrs. W. I promise you that she can help you formulate a plan.

It is not safe for you to develop plans here, because hubby may be reading.

But hope you will stick around for support.
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 06:10 PM
***edit***
Posted By: Maverick_mb Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 06:15 PM
Please keep posts helpful and respectful. Personal attacks are NOT ok.

Thank you.
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 07:34 PM
***edit***
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 07:40 PM
Jgirl...your H is WAY foggy. Wow, I'm still not sure if I can see through it all.

Some of his comments were just plain funny they were so insanely wayward in thinking.

You did good with exposure, it's the only way to go. WS's NEVER like exposure and his responses are no different than any other WS's. My H didn't like it either though he certainly didn't threaten to leave or end the M if I exposed. Deep down i believe he knew it was the only way to REALLY end it.

<shrug> Each wayward is a little different however.

Hang in there and stick around if you want some really good help and advice. And honestly, I'd just ignore people like ***edit***, unless you want to accept crumbs from your H and you are ok with a ho-hum recovery.

The Wonderings, Mel, Big K and others like them have all helped me TREMENDOUSLY and I am in a recovering M with VERY high standards set. Sure, I could have settled for less but I have been through too much to do that...I don't want an "ok" marriage at this point. I want one where nothing less than the very best is what we strive for.

(((hugs)))
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 07:41 PM
***edit***
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 07:56 PM

***edit***
Posted By: black_raven Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 07:58 PM
jgirl,

Way to go with exposure. At least someone in your M has a pair at the moment.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 07:59 PM
Gee! Guess I don't need my ear trumpet turned up to hear this.

Why are you guys so involved in this argument?

What happened to jGirl? ( I am so flaberghasted .sp? by the convo- I forgot her name!

Anyhew- hang on sweetie! Fog always clears. It is where you are standing then that is important! grin
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
***edit***

Suggesting that someone ignore a poster or his non-MB advice is not a personal attack...it's one of the reasons we HAVE the "ignore" feature. wink
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
jgirl,

Way to go with exposure. At least someone in your M has a pair at the moment.

Exactly! Applause from me AGAIN on the exposure!

I am very glad you listened to THAT advice and ignored the OTHER advice.

Posted By: Maverick_mb Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 08:18 PM
If you have something constructive or helpful to say to Jgirl123 or mr_fallenhero, please do so. ENOUGH with the in-fighting!

Thank you.
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 10:04 PM
I did contact Mrs. W & she said she will call me tonight so I am really excited for that. As far as Me & my husband go, we talked on the phone for just a short time & he seemed to be doing ok. I think he is still very foggy, but time does wonders & I am hopeful. I will just keep being as kind as I can be while not smothering him & hope he sees more clearly soon. Me & the kiddo have been trying to stay busy & give him his space at the same time. Thanks again for all of your help everyone. I am grateful!

Jgirl~
Posted By: TheRoad Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/02/09 11:03 PM
mr FH

"Something else to ponder....
FYI- Straight off the opening forum page..."

When you were a BH crying in your beer you never pulled this one on us.

FH, you've been here long enough to know that many an affair was restarted because the OWH was never told. Exposure is needed to not just end and an affair but to keep it from restarting.

This secret between the OW and OWH will prevent their marriage from ever healing. MB member stories have shown how these secrets only act as a cancer.

Do you think your daughter is stupid?

Do you think your daughter is learning healthy ways to deal with infidelity by your actions?

Don't tell the OM, who died and left you the OWH's boss?

"I suppose it's really easy from behind a keyboard looking"

What's complicated about the truth needs to come out?

****edit****

No more left to tell the OWH?

It is not just about you and your marriage. You put yourself in the OWH's marriage.

I'll say this much for you FH, you are consistent when it comes to choosing to do the wrong thing instead of doing the right thing.

****edit**** You have no problem trying to prevent the OWH from being told the truth.

"ultimate driver for our "marriage" car is God"

FH, isn't great how sinners hide in the bible?

"I also remember that you had no problem telling your then 12 year old dd about her mom's affair...Now that the tables have turned, you feel it's different"

FH, strikes again. Good for FH to expose but not his BW.

"FYI- OWH left me a voice message this evening. He stated death PROMISES over and over.... I called him back and talked with him for a few minutes. Just asked for 30 seconds to talk man to man. I appologized numberous times for what happened. Let him know that me and my wife had already written, signed and sent a promise to never contact his wife or family ever again. It was post marked last week. I encouraged him to focus on his family as I am doing the same.
He surprisingly allowed me to speak, but still made numerous PROMISES against my job and life."

FH, strikes again with a big lie. FH, has been saying no way to telling the OM. Then out of the blue FH states that he sent a NC letter.

What happened the OW was taking her affair to her grave?

"FISH STORY if I ever heard one! "hey wife, you don't have to call the OWH! He knows!! He just called me and gave me death threats! So don't bother calling and exposing me to the OWH!"

Right on.

Jgirl, I could not delete this after I found out you exposed. Good job.

Please help, FH did not come here just as a run of the mill fogged up WH.

FH, was a BS first and a past MB user. FH was acting as any other entitled WH. Please help, you think he needed not to get any 2x4's.?

Well FH knew he was in the wrong from being an MB alumni's. Yet he chose to ignore this.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/03/09 02:12 PM
This thread makes my brain hurt, but I think that is due to editing by the mods to remove unecassary or inflamatory coments.

FH, your a wayward man.
Put yourself back in the shoes you where in when you where here before. Dont let the FOG blind you, seek out the lighthouse (your wife)

Burn all bridges to the OW, all of them. Burning every one of them to the ground is the only way to ensure you cant cross them in a moment of weakness.

Your wife cant trust you right now, and if you are honest with yourself, you know you cant trust you either.

Good luck to you both.

Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/03/09 05:22 PM
thanks again everybody--yes I think my husband is still very foggy. I do understand what he is going thru though. I am trying to get thru this to hopefully save what we have. It is getting tough though. I knew it would. He is not so sure about me posting here anymore, so I may just read stuff from now on, as I hate making him even more angry.

He needs more time to figure junk all out. If he really has started NC, then I am looking at about 6 weeks of this--I am prepared for the worst but hoping for the best. I have come to terms w/ the unknown & I know neither of us will die if we dont make it. I hope we do. I am going to live my life & be the happy person I try to be, hopefully he will want to join me.
thanks again for all your help.

Jgirl
Posted By: MrWondering Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/03/09 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by jgirl123
I am trying to get thru this to hopefully save what we have.

Aim higher...

I am confident you two are going to do so much more than just saving what you had, you two have the opportunity to finally create something new and better than it's ever been before.

That's what Dazed wanted just a few short years ago and I'm sure he'll want that again real soon.

Remember...feelings follow action. Commit to the steps of recovery and you'll end up there...in time.

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/03/09 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by jgirl123
I am trying to get thru this to hopefully save what we have. It is getting tough though. I knew it would. He is not so sure about me posting here anymore, so I may just read stuff from now on, as I hate making him even more angry.
I'm not in your home, and ultimately this is your call to make, JGirl. But please indulge me as I think I am going to explode.

Your WH has betrayed you. Let’s take a look at the facts as of only yesterday:

1.) WH was still lying and misrepresenting to us the reality of events that had happened.

2.) WH is dismissing the infidelity almost as if it was incidental.

3.) WH has been in NC with the OW (whom he still can have work contact with) for all of 4 days? 5 days?

4.) WH refuses to wear his wedding ring. (Your statement two days ago.)

5.) WH is the one who threatened to leave you if you told the BH, something WH KNOWS the founder of MB, Dr. Harley, advocates.

6.) WH is working hard to save his reputation and how he appears to others. I see zero humility among all of this.

7.) WH still works at the same company as the OW.

8.) WH insists his affair be hidden from your 16-year-old daughter, even though Dr. Harley and WH's own actions from the past contradict that.

And yet WH thinks he gets to decide what you do to try to recover from HIS disrespect and shameful choices?

Unbelievable.

I posted to your husband when he first returned here last week. The attitude change from his first post on that first thread to now has me scratching my head. I can only hope that it's because he's in true withrawal.

Your WH jumped on your thread here and displyed LBs up the ying-yang. His IBs (refusing to admit what he had done, insisting that you do not tell OW), dishonesty (positioning it like he confessed based on a couple of notes found when you know this is untrue), AOs (don’t think I need to spell these out), and DJs (his words – “Each time I have been openly honest the truth couldn't be handled.” Who is he to judge what YOU can handle?) If this is how he is here among strangers, I’m worried how he is when it’s just you two and no one else is there to help police him.

Your husband listed all the things he’s doing to repair this. To quote him, “I have taken responsiblity upon myself to confess details, end the affair, write and issue the NC letter, suggest MB weekend workshop, and ask for your's and God's forgiveness.” He’s jumping through the hoops on paper, but his words and actions show me that he thinks of himself as one heck-of-a self-entitled person. And yes, I am only speaking for myself. I am basing my opinions purely on what you and he have chosen to share here. I promise I do not mean to offend you, JGirl. But I have to speak.

I read this from you yesterday, JGirl: “I just wanted to get my points in there that I really am TRYING to work this all out- I feel like the work has been one sided but I do realize that this all takes time & I have been there---as my husband kept reminding me that he has done so little compared to everything I did to him in the past--to him, this seemed like nothing--it was so minimal compared to the horrible acts I did. He is right--I am awful for doing what I did when I had an affair & I will never forgive myself.” This really pi**es me off. I mean, really.

Two things… First, who the heck is he to compare affairs? Who is this guy to position himself as superior to you? And secondly, why are you doing most of the work here? He’s written an NC letter to a woman he can contact through work at a moment’s notice. Is that supposed to be construed as working to save a M? Your statement reads to me that WH isn’t meeting your ENs. He’s in withdrawal and he’s taking it out on you with AOs, DJs, IBs, dishonesty, and perhaps more LBs. You feel awful for what you did three years ago. That’s good. You need to remember how that feels so you keep your EPs in place and don’t repeat that. My question to you is where are his “awful” feelings? Where is his true remorse? What is he doing so that this recovery is not one-sided on your part? Note I didn’t ask, “What is he saying,” but, “What is he doing to show you he’s sorry?"

Has he given you his list of EPs?

Is he being completely tranparant?

Has he had an STD test and shown you the results?

Does he report in with you everywhere he goes?

Does he practice POJA?

You had an affair a few years ago. Perhaps the two of you didn’t heal from that as you should have. But he has NO right to use that as justification for what he has done. Absolutely NONE.

Seriously… Do you feel safe in this? Look again at the list I’ve provided for you of what mr_fallenhero has done in just the last few days. Is this someone who is really looking out for YOU? For the M? For his family?

Read your WH’s posts on this thread. It is almost ALL about him. How he doesn’t want to be exposed. How the children shouldn’t be told (these are YOUR children too, JGirl) when he felt differently a few years ago when he was the BS, how he will not quit his job… Where among all of his words is his guilt? Where is his shame? Where is there ANY regard for you and trying to help you deal with this devastating information and disrespectful treatment? It’s as if one day you confronted him. He said, “Yes I had an affair. I’ll write an NC letter and that’ll be it. Case closed. Move on.” HE HAS BEEN THERE and it’s as if he is minimalizing his betrayal because oops! This time it was he who did the lying! Who is this person to tell you what YOU are to do to help YOU recover from this?

I am a FWW and I’m appalled at how he is trying to run this supposed recovery – or perhaps a better way of putting it is that he’s trying to run this “show”. Because based on the illustration I’ve drawn from all the posts is that this is a show to him.

Two days ago your WH wrote here: “btw- I suggested my wife come to MB. NO SECRETS...RIGHT... She has read my post and has asked me to read hers. Were you suggesting we shouldn't be doing so? Hmmmmm....” You should not be reading each others’ threads at this point. I doubt you’ll be able to keep him away since he allegedly likes to control things and he’s also proven to still be lying, but if you can, encourage him to stay away from you thread. He should be using his energy to either post on his own thread or to do some soul-searching as to how he’s going to do WHAT YOU NEED HIM TO DO to help you and the family get through this. And if he makes any comments about what is written here on your thread, you’ll know that once again, he has disrespected you and your wishes.

You mentioned that you’re not sure he’s going to still want to go to the MB weekend now. I strongly encourage you to go by yourself then, if that’s the case. I’ve never been to one so I’m speaking only from what I’ve read here. My understanding is they can be very helpful. And if nothing more, it’ll get you out of the house for a couple of days.

K… I have to stop writing. I am getting more and more upset and now I’m rambling on uselessly. PUH-LEAZE, JGirl. Do not stop sharing with us. Do not stay away. Do not let your H determine what YOU need to get through this. Please get help everywhere you can including family, friends, independent counseling, books, MB, anything… I'm glad you have Mrs. W to talk with too. You need to call the shots for yourself.

Please take care. And know there are many here who are pulling for you and for your H.
Posted By: Jean36 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/03/09 07:24 PM
Jgirl,

I don't have any advice, I just wanted to show my support for your situation.

I was also a WW who reconciled and then my H started his own affair a year later.

Your WH reminds me so much of my exH after D-day, the spewing of toxic sewage... Wow, brings back memories.

It makes me wonder if it is different for a WS who was once a BS, in that they KNOW the devastation first hand.

Be well, I am rooting for you both.
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/04/09 04:44 PM
JGIRL,

How did it go yesterday?

Good Luck and Prayers Frank
Posted By: jgirl123 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/04/09 06:56 PM
hi all--thanks again to all of you who are posting & pulling for us. My husband is really confused, I cant blame him. I am confused too. Things are weird, I am hoping something good can come from all this. He is too. Daughter is doing ok, trying to stay busy & stuff. Yesterday was better. He has a lot going on in his head. I want to help him & be on his side, but I will let him tell me when & if he is ready for that.
Taking it day by day, not thinking to much about the future as I have no idea what the future holds anymore.
I still can not stress how thankful I am to people for posting. I know it sucks to talk about all your personal junk & bring it all back up.
Later-

Jgirl
Posted By: TheRoad Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/04/09 08:10 PM
jgirl

Has OW or OWH tried to make contact today?
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/05/09 10:17 PM
Thinking of you, JGirl.
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/10/09 05:50 AM
Wondering how you're doing, JGirl.
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/13/09 09:03 PM
Did we lose you, Jgirl?

If you're reading but choosing not to post for whatever reasons, I hope you're able to gain from others' threads to help you through this very difficult time.

Please take care of yourself.
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/14/09 12:25 AM
Hi all...

I spoke with Dazed the other day and he told me they had MC all week this week and were going to Retrouvaille marriage weekend this weekend....

I hope they don't get mad since they didn't post this...I just know there are a lot of people rooting for them....

So this is the weekend to PRAY for them. How about we light a candle for them this weekend? We did this many years ago and got candles lit all over the world...I know the weekend is here and it's slow but for those who are here.

Frank lighting a candle in New Hampshire....

ANYONE ELSE?

Come on.... lets light it up for them!!! hurray
Posted By: GABZZ Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/15/09 12:37 AM
Gabrielle lights a candle in Ireland..... pray
Posted By: CuthbertCalculus Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/16/09 05:55 PM
I didn't see this before the weekend, but I will light a candle for them tonight. I remember Dazed from three years ago, and I was so saddened to hear about his own affair.

Dazed and jgirl, if you read this, I am praying for the both of you... and I am not normally a praying man.

All the best...
Posted By: Looking4 Re: He is not sure what he wants - 03/31/09 03:51 AM
Still thinking of you, JGirl...
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: He is not sure what he wants - 04/06/09 04:31 AM
Bump
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