Hi all new here. Been lurking for a few days and wanted to get some advice. I will try to be brief and list q's at end.

me bw 33, wh 33, married 6.5 yrs, together almost 9.

Suspected affair after we had moved 2500 miles across country to OR from IL when H came home from trip at end of August and gave me the ILYBNILWY speech.

Which coincided with me telling him that I was finally pg after 7 years of trying.

Sd he would try including counseling, just pretended and avoided me for month. Always had excuses, and just kept blaming me for our problems and his unhappiness.

Got his phone bill- which made it pretty obvious, but he still denied it. Made me think I was crazy etc... the standard drill.

I made him move out at end of OCT- had not discovered MB at that time.

Sought counsel and was in very deep shock for a few months. Had to make legal decision to leave OR for child custody issues.

His phone synced with our comp on Christmas eve, and I got all the proof. Email, pics, hotel, airline, bank statements but he still to this day denies being with her.

Confronted her- she lied.

Moved back with parents in MI.

He has not checked on me or the baby except for 2 half hearted attempts- even when we ended up in the hospital.

Have gone dark, nc/pp whatever you want to call it. But did not send official letter stating intentions or goals. Having a hard time writing it since I am afraid it is too late and won't have any effect other than looking weak and desperate.

I exposed to his mother, she is ok with what he is doing, his aunt and uncle who want nothing to do with this. His friends who have not responded to my plea. And to their mutual coworkers from his previous place of employment and her current employment. Other than that there is no one else. My family and friends all know but it makes no diff since we are so far apart.

OW broke up with her BF at end of NOV. So no one tell there.
OW is in IL and they have to fly back and forth to see eachother-

Questions:

Is it too late to tell her parents? Would it do any good?

Should I still send plan b letter or is it too late. We are 2500 miles apart. The divorce process is started because it was the only way to make him pay financial support.



Why does he deny being with this woman? It will not effect the divorce as it is a no fault state. He still says he loves me but can't be with me our problems are not fixable etc..

I found this site way to late to effectively work plan A- so now what?

When does D-Day start the day I got the phone bill- the day he moved out- the day I got the rest of the info- the day I exposed?
I ask because I am trying to understand time frames here.

Any suggestions would be helpful. I am not 7 moths prg and every day closer to my childs birth without him is worse and worse.

I hear IL has tough legal support against adulterers, contact a lawyer and find out what she can be sued for!

IL allows for suit of Alienation of Affection. I plan on filing if indeed the divorce takes place. I also plan on filing a complaint with the American occupational therapy association, of which she is a member. Since my H is a doc and they met at the hospital and were working on a "research project" together.

But aside from these "revenge" tactics- I would really like some thoughts and advice as to how I might save my marriage. I would much rather put my focus and energy on rebuilding my family. But I will gladly take her down if need be. I will fight for my husband, the father of my child and marriage. And it won't be pretty!

But please please please, anyone tell me what should I do? How should I go about this? Like I said before - I found this site and these principals very late in the game but I am still holding out a sliver of hope- anyone? Ideas? Thoughts? I had posted some q's in my orig post about plan b letter, etc.. would really like some help.

Thanks so much!

No, it's not too late AND this is the only conceivable reason I can think of for him to maintain his wall of denial in the face of so much proof.

Perhaps OW has a facebook page or some other way for you to obtain an extensive list of her friends and extended family.

It can't hurt at this point to hurry along the ultimate demise of their fantasy relatioship. D-Day is the date you first discovered the affair. Affairs typically don't last for longer than 2 years from the date of exposure (when the secrecy ends and the affair is in the light of day, it crumbles...eventually)

Until then...sit back and Plan B. Focus on YOU and that baby. The more you TRY to effect a reconciliation, and get nothing in return, the less likely you'll be willing to reconcile should he ever come to his senses.

Plan B is both the beginning of YOUR personal recovery preceeding a final divorce and the maintaining of whatever feelings remain for this lost husband such that when he wakes up to what he's losing (wife and child) you MAY STILL be willing to consider reconciling.

So sorry for what's happening.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - as far as the divorce proceedings. You filed to make him pay up. If he's paying and you are content for now with such....AND...still hope to reconcile...then, delay, delay and delay the proceedings.

Thanks Mr W.- I will expose to her parents today and she does not have a face book page.

Sadly the only way to get him to pay is with the divorce so I can't really delay all that much. Right now he gives me a little money but not enough to move out of my parents, pay med bills, or prepare for our child. He like many other waywards has been abducted by aliens and replaced with a look alike who is evil, selfish, and entitled to a disgusting level.

Any one have thoughts about the plan b letter. I went dark on Jan 30 after a 5 hr very ugly phone call. N/c at all since then. Having a hard time with if I should send one or if it is just pointless, and pathetic looking at this point.

BUMP......

Can some of the Vet's chime in here with advice???

I think the standard Plan B letter is advisable.

He needs to know there is a path home and what that path entails. Strangely, many former waywards have reported holding on to Plan B letters for months pondering them. It's a life line out of hell.

Give him a life line as he remains your husband today, then put your thoughts of him aside awaiting his commitment to your terms of capitulation. Concentrate on yourself and that baby as if he's never gonna wakeup. If he does...you'll be relunctantly surprised. It's happended before but there are no guarantees.

IMO...wayward husbands with pregnant wives are about as low and miserable as they come. I wouldn't be shocked but I'd be surprised if he removes his head from his end.

Mr. Wondering

Well, I'm sure the affair will end, so just keep your hopes up.

What were the problems in the marriage that were so insurmountable?

By the way, no secret handshake, but sometimes posts get overlooked. In that case, post to yourself. I did a lot of that when I first came here.

And congrats on the coming baby!!!!

I agree with above advice.

Rarely do I recommend a pregnant woman Plan A. Too stressful.

Focus on your baby. After delivery, we can come up with a different plan.

By all means, tell your H's parents that their son is abandoning you and their grandchild.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!! Really. I have just felt so lost.

I am so torn about this, even I can't understand at times why I would want him to come back and try to work this out. But I do. I married a good, honest, decent, man. He just is no where to be found right now. And I know it was his responsibility to do the right thing- but holy crap did this woman work him over- really! She did just about everything but lay in front of him naked covered in chocolate! NOT KIDDING. And sadly my H is one of those men that dosn't realize someone is interested in him until they do just that. I know from experience. He is one of the those book smart/ street dumb people.

As far as problems- he claims it was my drinking and that we had a problem. But he never said a word about it. Never tried to get me help. And when I stopped completely because of the pregnancy he just said that he knew I would drink again. If my drinking was such a problem why wouldn't he make sure that I didn't do it during pregnancy? It is just bull.

That I didn't have a job- which is because he asked me to quit so that I could stay at home for the last 1.5 years to remodel our house, help him with his job search, be available for his interviews which required us to travel extensively, move us from IL to OR, sell our house and find new living arrangements out there. Which I did. Always with the intention of when we got to OR I would be able to work again. But even then he told me not to look for a job for two months so that we could spend that time together- which I did.

Finally that I spent to much money- each excuse is complete crap. We had no money to spend. It all went into the house. Which if we had made the money we thought we were going to 6 years ago when he bought it I would be a genius- now its my fault that the market tanked (he actually implied this).

So these are the "insurmountable problems" funny because I said the exact same phrase to him and he gave me the revisionist history of our lives together, basically telling me I was lazy, gold digging, alcoholic slob. But the last 9 years have been some of the best of his life and he does love but not in love with me.
WTF?!?!?

I am really trying to focus on me and the baby- but it has been hard since I can't work due to health issues. Pretty much had a nervous breakdown, ended up in the hosp. He won't give me enough money to move out of my parents house, pay bills, etc.. meanwhile he just spent another week in Vegas with the #@$!@.

Thanks again for listening and any advice.

Pep,
I told his mother- she thinks the sun shines out of his a$$ and can do no wrong, and does not want to alienate anyone including the OW. And she also believes his bs about why he left me, but I am good enough to be a mother to his child. She is an enabler in every sense of the word. His father passed when hew as 16. No male role model since.

Thanks for reading.

Keep a journal of all the FAMILY expenses (your food, clothing, shelter, medications, etc) and all the non family money blown on HoBag ... trust me, you will be glad you kept a record.

Sounds like you need to go to a 12-Step program so that you can be prepared not to drink after baby is here.

And you need to insist on child support. Your child deserves it.

Whatever you do for work, you can brush up on those skills while you are not working. That way, you can show him you will work, and besides, your child will need more than he pays for support.

What else do you know about the OW?

I don't have a drinking problem. It was just what he said. Really, I have seen a counselor and everything. Believe me when he said those things to me I took a hard look at myself and asked alot of questions and did a lot of soul searching on what I did wrong. If I had a problem I would have gladly checked into rehab or whatever I needed to do to fix myself and my marriage.

Although it has been suggested that maybe it is his problem and that he is projecting it onto me. A few other examples of his fog speak, are that he thought I spent his money on drugs, gambling or just hiding it. We had direct deposit on the acct, and we both had access to all info online. Every penny we ever made is accounted for. He just wants to blame me. And if he thought I was on drugs, you would think as a dr he would know what the signs were. As well as drinking. Perspective- He is a lung DR who chain smokes and whose father died of asphogial cancer. He is just really messed up right now.

As far as job skills, I gave up law school because as a young doc in training we had to move for residency and fellowship which never allowed me to be in a place long enough to take care of my stuff. But I am now in the process of applying for fall or winter of next year. But the in between time is the killer. With the baby on the way I am limited. I have plenty of job skills and experience. But they were jobs not careers because our team plan was to get him where is then I got to focus on me. So with our without him that is what I am doing.

As far as the showing him I will work. When we met I had 4 jobs, I was never not employed while with him unless I was a full time student and even then always picked up temp work. I only left work after he literally badgered me for months- he even did it in front of my parents saying that my time was better spent focusing on him and getting us where we needed to be.

I guess this is why this is so hard for me. I thought we were a team and that part of that meant sometimes you compromised or sacrificed individual happiness for the team goals. So I did. and now he says he dosn't respect me and he has left me in such a crappy position.

As far as the OW, she is 30, an Occupational Therapist who was working with him on a research project at the last hospital he was at. She was in a LTR of 8 years but her BF wouldn't marry her when she gave him the ultimatum. She waited to break up with him until 1 week after my H moved out of our house 11/08, but had been involved with my husband since 04/08.
When I confronted her she lied- as expected said she only seen my H once since we moved to OR and that she was not involved with him and was not in love with him. By that time they had seen eachother 6 times since we had moved which was 7/08. Other than not not sure. I did expose her at her job since that is where is started and the medical community is REALLY small.

What do H's parents have to say about you and baby being abandoned?

B0B

Im so sorry you are here and for your pain.

You are in the fight of your life, for your M and your child. As such, Id say all bets are off and do what you need to do.

Send Plan B letter, and then go DARK. VERY DARK. Do you have someone that can act as an intermediary? That could tell your H when the baby arrives and act as a communication conduit?

I disagree that reporting the OW to the board is a "revenge" tactic. Id say more of a "guerilla" tactic and since she has declared war on you, then fight back.

Do you have a plan B letter drafted?

I would say that exposing to the OW's parents is an excellent idea.

Then, Plan B and DARK

Okay, just checking. Often the WS rewrites the history of the marriage, but I always caution people to work on any complaints that came BEFORE the affair.

Thanks JK, I really like that- guerrilla tactic, has a nice ring to it.

I haven't drafted a letter yet as I have been really on the fence about it since we haven't had contact in almost a month now. I am worried that I will look weak in that I already told him in person I wouldn't have anything to do with him and that I would move on with my life since he didn't want me or the baby. And also he told me that he dosn't respect me or the person that I have become.

Now I know some of that is fog speak but, I think there are nuggets in truth in there. So I worry that sending a letter telling him how much I love him and am willing to work on it if he is how much of a spineless jellyfish I will end up looking like. How can he respect that? I am having a hard time respecting myself for doing it. I have had all those thoughts about what a creatin he is, how low and despicable etc...

But I didn't find this site or these addiction principals until very recently, so I am struggling to go backwards and try to fix things- hence my title.

It has been 5 mo's since he ended it, 4 mo's since he moved out of our house, 3.5 mo's since I have seen his face, and 2 months since I got the undeniable truth in the form of pics etc... For the most part I don't remember much of what has happened to me over the last 5 months, it's like I shut off and went into auto pilot. It still hard to believe I am pregnant, everything is just so surreal. But now that I am coming around all I know is that not being with him just feels wrong in every molecule of my body.
That the man I married has got to be there somewhere. So I will swallow my pride and try to write a letter to him not the alien possessing his body.

Pep,
His mom dosn't see it that way. She just sees that her baby said he wasn't happy (out of the blue) so it must have been my fault, and now the OW makes him happy. He didn't abandon me or the baby- because we are safe with my family now and of course he will be a good father (from 2500 miles away) and of course he will pay CS (only after the court orders it). She is delusional, she seriously thinks that he didn't cheat, that this is my fault, and that he is just friends with this woman.

This is even after I told her that the 6k he borrowed from her and then told her he couldn't pay back because of me he spent on vacationing with the OW. I even told her that I have the bank statements to prove it. And that the bank statements are from a secret acct he opened while we were still together. She refuses to believe he would do anything like that.

Like I said the ultimate enabler.

Ok sweetie I am going to bluntly paint a picture for of what I see could happen should you not get on the ball.

WH continues his affair undaughnted because his fansasy is enabled to continue. He gathers as much info he can to make you look bad including a bad mother.

You have the baby he sues you for custody. He wins. He divorces you marries OW and they raise YOUR CHILD together.

Now to avoid this you need to get started to protect youself......you need to send the plan b letter....you need to show him a way home to his family. You need to blow the fantasy world apart. Get the AoA suit started. She may think he is not worth the trouble when she is exposed to the light of day. Vampires tend to shrink from light.

Most important...DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT. And Journal journal journal. I can not stress this enough.

My MIL is the same way. She "befriended" the OW and threw me and our COM under a bus. Too bad your MIL is throwing her future GC away as well.

BOB,
So H's mother is of no support since she thinks the sun rises on his gracious butt,
H's father died.

Does he have siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, any of these have importance to him ? If so, expose to the ones with the best morals and values, the ones that would support you and babe.

Do you have good support from family and friends?

Agree that it is really important to document everything. Get all your ducks in a row now, after babe is born your mind will be elsewhere.

Take care.

Two key exposure tactics are the AOA and reporting the OW to her licensing board. Exposing to her parents is also key, but must be done in a way that says you love your H and want a happy intact family for your soon to be child.

Send the plan B letter and then stay dark and focus on having healthy baby. Do NOT let him have the idea he can come into the delivery room. That would be bad for you UNLESS he has ended the A and sent a NC letter to the OW.

BoB


Ginger Ale did just literally shoot out my nose when I read this!

He doesnt respect you? he doesnt respect YOU????

Let me get this straight. He is the adulterer, the liar and the person who abandoned his pregnant wife for some skanky tramp-o-lean and he doesnt respect the person that youve become??
That is some first class blameshifting! OMG! Unbelieveable, truly. That is hall of fame class blameshifting!

As far as NC for a month, thats been GREAT for him. You havent been around to pester him and it makes his life much easier. You arent there to hold up a mirror and make him face that pesky guilt!

AND, listen to this missy! You are NOT a spineless jellyfish. You are a VALKYRIE! You are Gudit, Boudicca!! A fierce warrier woman who has been attacked and who is going to fight for her M. Now tell me, what is not to respect about that?

Going quietly? Now thats something to not respect.

How's it going?

Hi all,

Thanks for the encouragement and insight. I have a great atty fighting for me in OR and my mom is an atty here in MI so between her and her firm I am covered in every aspect. He won't know what hit him when this goes down. All my ducks have been in a row for quite sometime. He will be lucky to get supervised visitation after all the crap he has pulled.

JK- yes he actually has said that to me, but keep in mind that this was before I had the hard evidence of his affair, and that he is so mentally gone that he was still trying to deny that he did anything wrong when I spoke to him over a month ago. I can't understand how someone can be so deep in denial but he really is.

FF- I am ok, I started my anti d's about a week ago and I think they may be kicking in. I fought hard not to take them but after talking to my Dr about my sit and the potential for increased post partum I decided that it was the safest thing to do.

I am still struggling with the plan b letter, every time I start to write it, it turns into a plan fu letter. I just can't seem to move past my anger right now. He has not checked on us and I am starting to think that maybe not having someone like him in my life and my child's life is for the best. I want to believe in the best in him but if he is capable of being this selfish and cruel when there is an innocent child involved how could I ever trust him again- especially when he shows absolutely no remorse.

I know I love the man I married but maybe he really is gone. So for now I am focusing on Law School and my baby.

I could have forgiven the cheating and lies if was remorseful, but the fact that he abandoned me while pregnant, continued to lie and deny everything then started slandering me, and withholding money- I don't know, even in plan b my love is really disappearing. In fact it may be gone.

these are two emails he sent me this week. This would be attempt number 3 in 5 months at checking on how the baby and I are doing.

What I find interesting is that I told him that I no longer recieve his emails when we spoke at the beginning of Feb. I can't actually completely block them but I can have them skip my inbox and go straight to archive and also have them forwarded back to his inbox so it looks like they don't get to me. I check my archive once a month to see if he has sent anything. this is what I got. Why is still sending me messages if I told him that I am not getting them? and While I don't really think there is too much hidden meaning in these does anyone have any thoughts about what he is saying. I still see no acceptance or remorse, only self entitlement. I see that Schoolbus is quite the master decoder at these sorts of things, I would love to hear anyones thoughts if there was something more to this.

"Can you please tell me how you are doing? Please just let me know that you are OK. You never called back after the home owner's insurance issue, but I saw that new insurance was obtained. I left messages at your family's house.

How is the baby? Any word on if it's a boy or a girl?

Mark


The other thing I want to bring up is if you want me to be present during the birth. I dont know if this is something you would ever consider. If you are getting the emotional support you need from your family now, and you would never want me there, then fine.

I cannot let this come and go without asking. And despite the possible discomfort, I would actually like to be there..

I would need to tell people at work that I need to plan for this. Knowing sooner is best"

BoB

Im glad you checked in.

It sounds as if you moved in to Plan B not a moment too soon. Plan B is designed to protect the BS from any further love bank withdrawals although your WH is doing a good job of continuing that, isnt he?

Good for you for having a plan. Its always hard to say what one would do but if I were in your shoes, I think I might feel as you do. It doesnt sound like your H adds anything but grief and heartache to your life.

The sad thing is, he WILL come out of this fog. He will be stunned to see the wreckage of his life and the mess he has created. Its possible that by that time, you will have moved on.

You seem to have alot of support. That is wonderful.

Hang in there :-)

I'll take a stab at this, although Im no Schoolbus


To me, he is asking how you are in order to have his guilt lessoned. He is trying to make himself look like an "ok guy" and is putting the lack of contact off on you, as in " Well, I tried to contact you. I even left messages at your family's house. See?? Im not a bad guy"


To me, he isnt genuinely concerned with you at all. I may be way off base here but it sounds like he wants to be around for the birth of his child because to not be would make him "look bad". Is he one of those people that is really hung up on what people thing of him? Knowing sooner is best? For who? What a self entitled [censored]! Im sure it would be VERY helpful to you to "know sooner" as far as when he is planning on ending his affair and stepping up to the plate, wouldnt it?

JK- you couldn't be more right about his concern with what others think of him. He is incredibly insecure, beyond normal insecure.

I didn't really get the sense that he gave a cr@p about me either in those emails. I too think he is just trying to appease his guilt. But that is who he has become. He is one of those people that even when they make a disasterous mistake he would rather pretend everything is fine rather than admit fault, I partly blame his mother for this personality flaw.

In fact I fully expect him to marry her just prove a point. Although that should be an interesting conversation with her parents once they find out everything he has done.

Just dropping by to say i'm hanging in there and that I appreciate everyones support and advice.

I keep hearing the analogy of waves of grief and feelings, mine are more like tides- is that normal at this point? Will they turn more into shorter waves?

I have started the anti d's, and am finally sleeping much better than I have for months. Putting on weight, generally feeing stronger overall and there are days when I don't think about him or what he is doing in anyway shape or form. But then there will be string of days where no matter what everything is a trigger and I can't stop thinking about him.

Mostly my thoughts are about what the status of his relationship is and how he is handling the exposure. My plan b has been quiet as a tomb so i have no idea. I exposed to his aunt and uncle- which I knew would really tick off my mil- long story- but since then not a peep from her but I found out she lent him another 3500$ to help with divorce proceedings (this was through the discovery process for the divorce). That woman has no respect for me or my marriage.

I think the thing I find the most surprising is that as everyday passes, even when I do think about him I want him or anything to do with him less and less. I read Jim's post in notables and it really hit the nail on the head as far as these feelings go.

So I guess what I am saying is that there is hope, or light at the end of the tunnel and everyone here is pretty much right. We BS's will be ok even though when we get here it feels like we are in the 3rd circle of hell with no escape. And Mark is right- there is no magic bullet- only time. But I still wish my Karma bus would roll up soon! Maybe the next thing I need to work on is patience

You could always send him and his mother copies of the evidence that you have. And the rest of his family. It may shock him back to reality. It also helps your case that he may not the best father that he would be lying, cheating, sneaking around, etc.

BOB,

Have you exposed to OW's parents yet? Or to her employer? It really could help you. Just be sure to keep copies of everything that you send out, etc. As the others have said DOCUMENT everything!

How are you doing? How is the baby? My H had the A while I was pregnant and we separated when I was 6 months along, so I understand how you feel completely. Just remember to eat and take your vitamins. The baby won't go without, but it will take everything from you, so be sure to take care of yourself.

HS- I don't want to send copies just yet as the evidence I have will be used in my A of A law suit and I don't want anyone to know exactly what I have. Though in other circumstances I would.

Verve- I did expose but I have no idea what has come of it. In the case of her employer it should be interesting as the exposure will seem like it continues as I subpoena the record off of her work station computer that she has been using to comm with my husband. Poor her he he he.

The baby and I are doing alright- thank you for asking. I found out that I am having a girl! Which is very exciting as she will the be the first girl in my family since me (33 years) and we were all crossing our fingers for a girl- so we are all (my family) very excited about it. My WS has no idea what it is.

HELP -I REALLY SCREWED UP!

Before anyone starts swinging the 2x4's hear me out please.

I know I solicited advice from all of you- and pretty much everyone of you said send the plan b letter. I mentioned that I had tried on several occasions to write it but that it always seemed to turn into a huge FU letter. So ultimately nothing ever got sent because I couldn't seem to find the right way of expressing myself.

Well- I have been wondering if the reason that I was struggling so hard with the letter was maybe because I didn't have any love or desire to work out my marriage anymore. I have read so many times over on this board and others that if there are no children involved then cut your losses and run- even Dr. Harley has said that. Technically there is a child but I find myself in slightly different place because if I do cut my losses now then I could potentially spare my child from future harm that my WS has clearly shown he is capable of inflicting. My child right now has a clean slate, she will not now what it is like to have a father so she will not know what it is like to lose him or be without him. Maybe this is the silver lining in this storm cloud.

I find myself asking over and over again do I risk my child's mental and emotional happiness for this man? Because what if he doesn't do the right thing- now she is attached and I will be the reason that she will be caused pain. You see I am the very young daughter of a divorce so I know first hand that even as a very small child there is attachment, confusion and pain that does not go away or is understood for a very very long time. And since I couldn't find the words to say to him there is a way home then isn't my heart telling me what the right thing to do is? If it were just me- I could take it- I could take the risk, stick my neck out and offer that life line. But it is not just me that I have to consider.

Well where I screwed up is on Sunday I was sitting at home the phone rang, our caller ID was not working and I was expecting a call from my mother so I answered. BIG MISTAKE! It was my WH. Since he had no plan b letter stating that he is not to contact me unless he has ended his affair etc.. I was like a deer caught in headlights. The second I heard his voice I froze everything stopped. I know I should have hung up- but somewhere inside of me a little voice said talk to him because maybe just maybe it is your husband on the phone and not his evil twin- BAD VOICE!!!

At first it was ok- then it got nasty- I did everything wrong again, I DJ'd, LB'd yelled, put down, belittled, basically sh$t kicked him. And he took it he didn't yell back he just took it and sounded kinda pathetic. I said some really awful things that I wish I hadn't said- but I can't do anything about that now.

I have no idea if he is still with her. I didn't ask. I didn't want to know. But what has been bothering me is there were a few things that he said to me (in between my tirades) that I haven't been able to stop thinking about that have me questioning myself and what to do.

1. the standard, "I loved you and I still do."
2. "I was miserable with you, but I am miserable without you, maybe I am just a miserable person."
3. "I have destroyed my life as much I have destroyed yours" ( HARDLY)
4. I told him that at one point during all of this I used to feel bad for him and all the things that he is going to miss out on like the birth and all of the fun great firsts of a child, but that I don't feel bad for you anymore you are getting what you deserve. His reply "I feel bad for me".


But the clincher that has had me up for the last two nights is- He asked me if he had stayed what would I have done differently to save our marriage? I asked him what he would have done- he said "I asked you first" (really are you 12?) but I was honestly in such a tizzy by this point nothing was making sense.
And honestly looking back on this question I am face with many more. Like- has he been thinking about this- is there a sliver of hope here or am I just reading too much into and wanting there to be some hope. Because why would he ask me this- especially after I LB'd him for about 1/2 hr by this point. And he really kinda pushed - why?

Do I send a plan b now? Because I can say that if I thought there was a possibility that maybe my husband, the man I married was out there, I would throw him a life line. I can find it in myself to write that letter now- but is it too late? Or am I reading to much into what he said? I don't want him to miss out on this child- but it has to be HIM not his EVIL TWIN.

So any thoughts, comments or advice would be greatly appreciated. I am down to four weeks before delivery and will need to move fast if I am going to do this.

Also- does anyone believe that sending articles from this site or excerpts from books to waywards help in anyway. I know for the most part if they are not ready then it won't make much difference- but my H is a scientist so he is very empirical.

You need to find out if there is still an active affair going on.

Because that is how you should proceed. Plan B letter will let him know where you stand. It also points out your conditions for his return. He sounds pretty foggy, but maybe he is hearing the the reality horn a little bit.

You are in an emotionally hysterical state anyway. ;)(luv dem babies) I understand a Plan B letter has to be hard to write now- I know there are pleanty on this site- maybe you could find one for inspiration and edit?

As far as you are along, methinks you need to stay with your current OBGYN (I mean, I don't think you should move away now.)

I hope you find clarity and peace. I live in Milford-- where r u?

Ok, how do I do that without contacting him? Or do I have to actually ask him that?

Methinks snooping is what is required. This is a long distance relationship (the A), right?

Are there any common charge phone records you can get ahold of?
Plane reservations/florist reciepts/dinners out- the works.

Also Spokeo.com YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE what you can dig up on someone online (this is very powerful juju!)

I agree that Plan A is NOGUT' for expecting moms. Your plan b should be sweet and short- if you want to send one at all.

I feel this might be posturing because baby is coming. I'd wait until months after the birth (even if you start communicating now) when all the newness blows over to see if his intentions are true.

What does he say now about the A?

Yes the affair is a long distance affair. But unfortunately so am I. He lives in Oregon, the OW in Chicago, and I now live in MI with my parents. So physical access to any of his stuff is out. He changed all passwords on his online accts so I can't see the phone bills or anything like that.

I will try your suggested website tonight and see what I can come up with.

As far as what he says about A- I didn't ask, and I didn't really give him an opportunity to bring it up. I didn't really want to know when we talked on Sunday.

Thanks for the insight about the posturing- that is very logical! It is funny how we want to see things when it is our own mess as opposed to looking at someone elses!

Hey Barbie,

I am in Ann Arbor. I'll have to look up Milford not to sure where it is off the top of my head. I would have answered you sooner but the your post earlier and mine must have crossed when you were editing and I just now saw the rest of what you had to say.

Thanks again. Yes- baby hormones added to this already crazy rollercoaster ride makes it unbearable at times!! But I can't wait to meet her

bumping for other thoughts insight or advice-

The second half of the long post is all you really need to read the first half is just me kinda rambling. Sorry.

Thanks

Babyonboard,

Ann Arbor is a beautiful city. Have a child up there in grad school. I think you need to first get a grip on yourself. And simply write him the standard plan B letter. What you don't seem to understand, the plan B letter is not a contract. It does force you to accept him in your life if he does all you request. It simply says that you will discuss with him the possibility of recovering the marriage.

Next, you need to stop the LB's and such. Next time he calls if he does, just listen. The real question was not what would you do to save this marriage but what will he do. Nevertheless, you will find if you start to make plans to address any situation including him calling again, you will be better prepared. Plans help you deal with the unexpected because at least you have a clue.

God Bless,

JL

Ann Arbor is about 30 min away. Milford by Novi. Visit quite often.
Maybe coffee sometime.

Hang in there. I am glad you have a supportive family.

Thanks JL- you are absolutely right I do need to get a grip. I thought I had one until that moment when he called and then I just fell apart. I can't even begin to tell you how ashamed I am of my bad behavior.

My reaction did cause me to stop and look though and think maybe I do have something left to offer him as far as my love and forgiveness. If I truly didn't love him or care for him I probably wouldn't have gotten so upset.

Yes, I also need realize that just because I send a plan b doesn't mean that I am contractually obligated (that is something I have been struggling with though I didn't quite look at it in those terms). I was feeling more like a doormat when I tried to write one, then my anger would just overtake the whole thing.

I have read of the plan b's on here and think that I can finally get my point across, be strong, and not feel like I am groveling for his scraps.

I think I read on another thread that you responded to that you were a scientist- is that correct? If so I was wondering if you had any thoughts about my question regarding sending articles with empirical data to the WS. I ask because my WH is a doc and seems to respond to facts.
Thanks again for your time and insight.

Barbie-

Would love too! Let me know when you are around the area. I am almost 36 weeks so I don't go out of the AA area much right now. I know I probably won't deliver until after 40 wks but Murphy's law and with my luck, the second I am out range of the U of M hosp my water will break. So I am playing it safe. But yes I would love to have coffee. How is the best way to get contact info out there. Is it through the email on the board or off?

Well, I can have coffee, you can have maybe a veggie juice from that place by Kerrytown and Zingermans. (unless you WANT the baby to start doing backflips)
nancymassollathotmail.com

Babylon,

I don't think you sending WS anything to educate him will work well. It has been shown repeatedly here over the years that trying to educate a WS is pretty fruitless. So don't bother. He is a bright man (almost somewhat) and if he needs information he can figure out how to find it. But, first he has to need the information.

Zingerman's...good place to eat.

Take care of yourself.

JL

Hi, need a little insight. It seems everyone else has a much better perspective of things than I do.

I sent the standard plan b letter and in it I stated that when he arrived here in town to meet condition number 2 that he could text a number with the info of where and when to meet in person. I told him that this number was not to be used for anything else and that the message would get to me. I did this because I did not want him to know that was my new cell number, and I don't really have a safe intermediary for a go between. So I tried to make it kinda ambiguous.

Well two things-
1. I received a text today from him that stated he knew he was not to use this number but he wanted me to know that he had bought a crib and dresser and that it would be coming to my parents house because he didn't want me to have buy unecessary items.

2. I have no idea how he knew where I was registered to begin with. I know this isn't rocket science to find out but, he had to make some kind of effort to get this information. I am not trying to bash when I say this but even this amount of effort on his part is mind blowing. For years I have been nothing but and after thought. I.e. On our fifth wedding anniversary he had to buy a card for me at the hospital gift shop because he was too busy and had forgotten. It's not like your fifth comes around everyday or sneaks up on you out of the blue, kwim.

So I am wondering what to make of all of this. The obvious to me is guilt, but I can't help but wonder if there is more?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Stay in your plan B. Don't give him a thought, that is what plan B is for... to get your head out of the "what is he doing" mode and preserve what love you have left. If he tries to contact you, standard answer should be "have you met the requirements in the letter"?

Thanks FF, just want to clarify some of the things you said. I had no intentions of responding to him but you mentioned saying something to him. Did you mean that literally- Because I really wasn't going to say anything at all since I know that the conditions have not been met. Or did you just mean that if he tries to contact me again.

I think I have been doing pretty decent at plan b- and the truth is I find myself not thinking about him much at all unless he pops in like he did yesterday. Sometimes I wonder why this is the case. I am incredibly grateful to my family for whom I don't what would have happened to me without them.

Does anyone believe in signs? The reason I ask is that yesterday morning I woke up really early from bad dreams about my sitch. Cried all morning (I haven't actually cried for almost 2 months now) and prayed for a sign, anything that would tell me what was happening with us and then later that day I got the message about the crib. Was that the sign I had been praying for because if it was it wasn't very clear to me what it was trying to say. That is why I came here and posted for insight. Hoping that others might be able to tell me whether or not there was any reason for me to continue hoping.

There seem to be so many here with such a great sense of insight and wisdom, whether is comes naturally or just from experience either way I know that no one here is psychic or mind readers and my q's yesterday were kind of in the vein of asking people to guess what he is thinking and doing. But I swear that I am really focusing on myself and the baby. I have actually found myself genuinely laughing and enjoying being around people again so I know I must be headed in the right direction. I was just hoping for a little clarity if any one has anything to offer I am all ears.

Thanks!

Hey, BOB:

Why don't you have a good in between person (mediator)? You are with family, right? Oh, maybe you don't want to involve any of them?

Well, I'm here and very willing to meet you for coffee.

I would have to know way more about your sit. Keep posting, there are good voices of reason here.
N

I am faced with a very difficult decision. Now this has been somewhat addressed in the past by some of the elders and others on this board but I still will like to get some more input, if you please.

Doing plan b- was going pretty well until this weekend. Got the text- didn't respond, then he called. I took JL's advice and just listened, no lb's, no nasty's etc. Why did I take the call- well even though I know it went against solid plan b, the combination of being so close to my due date (hormones+ hope) got the better of me.

What I am struggling with is how to handle to birth. I know that I can do it with out him, I was and am fully prepared to do it with out him. But even before I talked to him there is nagging question about the three of us bonding at that moment- the idea that maybe if he were part of the experience of becoming a family it might help him truly see.

Please do not confuse this as I want to use my child as a tool to get my husband back- THAT IS NOT THE CASE. My most important en has always been family, whole, solid, accepting, and unconditional family. I never needed to be rich, famous, popular, whatever, all I have ever wanted was what I didn't get as a child. a solid bio FAMILY. Yes I have my mother and stepdad now and two half brothers who are very good to me and we all love eachother. But I know that there is nothing that can replace the bond between a bio parent and child.

All that being said- when were talking yesterday the birth kept coming up over and over again. And at one point, I know he was crying but trying to hide it. INSERT HERE I am a total GIVER- to the point where I think my Giver created a MONSTER TAKER in him. And as far as addiction principles- my addiction is and has always been giving to others to an unhealthy point. Especially my H.


So my dilema's are

1. The most important thing to me is protecting my child- how do I do this? I tried to explain (I know waynerds are deaf) that it wasn't that I didn't want him there or that it was a punishment but that he has taught me I can't count on him and she comes first. But then..

2. I am afraid of robbing both my H and my DD the opportunity to bond. If I leave it up to the courts- which I am most likely to do then the first visit between them would be until 2-3 months down the road unless I allowed otherwise.

3. Is the birthing experience something could be a catalyst, I felt like he was on the edge yesterday and this might be "the" push.



PLEASE, ANYONE, HELP!- GUYS ESPECIALLY I would love to her how you felt when your wives or partners gave birth. Did you feel more connected to them, how did you feel about your child, and the whole Family Factor? He feels like I am punishing him and I can see how he feels this way- but it wasn't me that created this situation, and he still just isn't quite there for accepting responsibility.

Paramount is your health and the health of babyDD. YOU KNOW this -and have been told stress increases delivery complications.

You are under stress now, but if he is around, the stress will go way up. Do you think you can handle this? I could not- but maybe you feel stronger about dealing with his presence than I.

The most important bond at this moment <birth> is (sorry all you guys) between mother and child. Holding the child that your (and only your body) nurtured and gave life to is a miracle.

It should be as calm and happy as you can make it-- can you do this with your WS there?

Barbie,
I totally agree about the stress factor and the ultimate bonding taking place between me and baby girl. As I mentioned I am inclined not to include him and let the courts handle it. But I at the same time I have doubts as to if it is the right thing to do. And as far as being strong enough to handle him being there, I don't know for sure.

The things that keep running through my mind are- he was there when she was created, and what will I be depriving her of if he isn't there when comes into the world.

He said would just wait in the waiting room, but the funny thing is I think that if I knew he were at the hosp I would want him in the room with me. Despite everything that has happened, knowing that he doesn't want to be with me, that he choses to continue down this path with ow, I still love him.

I feel like a turtle without a shell.

Hey, aren't you supposed to be at work, tsk tsk

BOB,

The best thing that you can do right now is stick to your Plan B. Honestly, until he is ready to meet the conditions he will continue to cake eat. Ask me, I know. I wanted my M so badly that I broke several Plan B's. What happened? WH didn't take them seriously anymore, continued to go back to OW because he knew I would overlook it, I ended up love busting BIG TIME (Plan FU was more like it) and I now will be D'd shortly. You only have ONE CHANCE to do a good Plan B. It sounds like your WH is on the fence and you can knock him off if you do this right.

The worst thing would be to let him in delivery with you, then have him leave later only to return to OW.

If you can, you could counsel with Steve or Jennifer right now and have them guide you down this narrow path. You have a good chance of recovering your M right now if you do this right.

MAKE HIM MEET THE CONDITIONS. Jennifer coached me to say "Are you calling to recover the M"? If his answer is anything but yes, hang up!

Thanks, Chai and Barbie,

I hear what you are both saying and want you to know that this helps my resolve immensely!

As I said before I am a people pleaser, and want to do what is right by everyone. But in this case I just can't and I have to accept that and do what is right by me and baby g. He has to face the consequences of his actions and take ownership of his mistakes. I have done all I can, I offered a path back and now I just have to sit back and keep hoping he won't continue to let his pride and ego get in the way from following it. I know this but I feel like I am losing him everyday that passes and I can't stand knowing that this will effect our daughter and their relationship.

Oh yeah,

Real quick, he said he didn't understand my plan b letter- and that I was using the baby to as way to force reconciliation. You see, one of my terms was that he would have to come to me and sit down face to face and discuss the A and answer my Q's and then we could begin to address our other problems once we got this out of the way. I said nothing about the baby or the birth in the letter, I only told him that how much he chooses to miss out on is up to him.

Yes I did mean the birth- but I in no way implied that that I would stop him from seeing the child. In fact I told him that I will continue to do as the court directs.

Is this just wayward foggy speak or do I need to clarify what the purpose of meeting my conditions are?

Thanks.

It's fogspeak. If he wants to recover the marriage, he'll suddenly understand the letter. Right now he is going to do anything to keep both of you. If he wants to recover the marriage, he'll tell you that he will meet any condition you put forth.

I know this is hard, especially being pregnant, but you can't recover your marriage until he agrees to get rid of the OW for good. This is why Plan B is good for you. It removes you from that triangle so that you don't have to suffer anymore. You can work on YOU and your baby.

Now please quit talking to him and go dark.

Sounds like Chai has hit it right on the mark.

I mean, the more you talk to him, the more defensive, angry, confused and upset you get. If you proper PB these things would not be a concern for you. <O.K. I mean, not a concern for you today, anyhow- but you are so close to delivery- you should take it and rest!

You have lots of time to listen to BS from your WH. RIght now the focus should be on you and leetle one. ;-)

Thanks guys,

It is funny how doubt can make you question everything and this forum has helped sooo much. I really have felt great up until this point so I get what the purpose of plan b is. And I swear that other than my plan b letter I have made zero attempt at contact with him since Jan. He got to me once because of faulty CID, and this last time I willingly answered the phone. My bad, I slipped, but being an equestrienne most of my life I know I gotta get back up and keep riding.

BOB,

I know exactly how you feel. It's something I thought about repeatedly during the A. It's a very tough decision to make. However, you will NOT be robbing your WH and your child their chance to bond. HE will be. Please don't feel any guilt over that, whatsoever! It's his loss, not yours, not your childs.

Good luck.

Some thoughts from other imminent delivery room situations with Active Waywards that have been shared here previously.

One found her husband had immediately left the delivery room to call OW - maximum pain. And sadly, your husband seems to be headed that way.

Another just surrendered that process and was bound and determined to use the one edge she had over the OW - his child - and this was the start of their recovery - OW was history after he held his baby girl in his arms having witnessed the labor and been there for his wife. Your husband is a long shot on this behavior but the noises he's making make it possible.

I would suggest having an intermediary at the hospital make him surrender his cell phone and car keys with the understanding that he is not going to bring OW into this FAMILY situation - she is not going to be receiving a call from him at all because the cell phone is not going to be accessible. Warn the nursing staff that a certain drama queen may be in the waiting room and that she is not to disturb this FAMILY situation - she's not welcome and make HIM tell the nursing staff that he supports this - that he will not be receiving ANY calls. If he agrees to this, and considers steps to coming home, then he can be there. Otherwise, he's too much of a risk for added pain.

Understand this: OW is very threatened by this birth. She does not want him there.

So consider whether or not to use this weapon against her.

You are totally right Verve, I have to let go of the guilt. I did not create this sitch, He did. Thanks for helping me get there!

OMG I just when I read that. This is exactly why I come here for others insight. Truthfully, the thought of him including her in this process at all HAD NOT EVEN crossed my poor little niaeve mind! You have definitely given me something else to consider.


I can tell you all I am not much of a gambler, and letting him be there seems more and more like a gamble.

Even though I am pretty sure the path I will take, I would still genuinely appreciate some more insight about this sitch. Especially from the men here, I like to understand as much as I can from all pov's.

Back to Kayla's point, the OW may or may not want to be part of this process. There are those OPs that want the children to be part of one big happy family because they think it helps hold on to their AP.

I still think that I would have him meet my conditions before I let him in the delivery room. He is fence sitting right now, and you don't want him to fall off the other side and try to take the baby with him. JMO....

Thanks Chai,

I am back in plan b and plan on staying there until my conditions are met. I have no idea if he is still with her, I kind of the got the impression maybe not. But I certainly did not even give him the opportunity to give the info so I can't be for certain. And I refuse to ask about her or any aspect of his life. All I kept saying was you chose to walk away and not be apart of my life so what is happening in it is no longer your business.

The other thing with us all being so far apart, him in Oregon, her in Chicago, me in Detroit, logistically including him in the birth would be difficult. But one of things he said that was that if I called him he would "come running".

The distance thing is very helpful in plan b, I must admit. I don't worry about seeing him or running into them or anything like that. But the down side is that I feel like with the baby being a factor it might have hurt our chances at working things out being so far apart.

I hate doubting everything! it sucks. I so tired of questioning and looking for answers that are nowhere to be found. I honestly used to believe that everything happens for a reason. But to me the obvious thing is that we tried for 7 years to have a child and it finally happened right as his affair started getting heavy- really, am I to believe that was supposed to happen?

I know what talk about the Karma bus here on this forum, but I have to wonder what I did to deserve this. Was I Eva Braun in a previous life? Or one of the Manson women?

Sorry for the rant- not sleeping well, getting to big, swollen like a tick and preggy hormones do not add up to Pollyfreakinanna!

I read your posts and really feel for you. No real advise, but if I were in A2 today, I would go to Blimpie Burger and get a double (I like mine with feta, grilled peppers and onions) and a big side of fried veggies with ranch dressing on the side.

Nothing like a little comfort food....

Sounds good, especially the fried veggies. But I will have to make sure to take a double dose of Zantac, oy the heartburn:)

Hello!, BOB

Will be in Ann Arbor this afternoon/eve.

Do you have time for coffee?

TTFN

Baby no longer on board!
Rylan Avery Leanora, 6.6 pnds, 19 inches, born 4/25/09 at 4:05 am.

She came fast and furious into this world after only 4 hrs of constant labor. Her cord was wrapped around her neck and she was distress, but I got her out safely without additonal med assistance and she is perfect! I think I am in trouble with this one, already causing drama.

WH was not present, but was notified of her birth.

TaaaaaDaaaaa! and here I am MA! Good thing you were kinda close to the hospital.

Congratulations!

Congrats on becoming a mommy! It's quite the adventure.....but we have faith you will come throught sparkling....we are here for the good times and bad for venting and announcing......you know where to find us. Now the fun begins with that beautiful baby of yours.

Yeah! Welcome to the world little one.

So sweet! Congrats on your new baby

Congratulations!!! You did good!!!

Congratulations! Blessings on you and your precious baby girl.

Hello! BOB (Baby out Board)

I lost your contact infomration.

Would love to come wisit-- and I have a question for you
nancymassoll@- you know
Nancy

could use a little insight here. As I mentioned before I told Wh that I did not receive his emails, but yet he still sends them. Maybe for his case IDK. But this last one is in response to my plan b back up letter where I told him that it was a mistake that I broke nc and would not do it again. And reinforced my conditions- one of which was that he come to town and meet with me- only to recover our marriage. Here is his response which makes me think he still doesn't get it or maybe he just still can't say it. B4 anyone swings the 2x4 about the emails I do have them set to block which means they go to my archive which I check once a month but never respond to.

"You are absolutely clear about what you said in your email.

I hope with all of my heart that you are OK. I pray you and the magic bean are healthy. I wish I could have seen you. You had an energy in the beginning, and I hope it is better than ever right now.

My guilt and regret comes largely from the pain I have caused you.

It seems too late to come to town to "talk." This now is about a healthy happy childbirth. The most incredible moment of your life, as you said. I will not interfere with that. "

He sounds way foggy. There is not ONE sentance here that is giving you any help. I mean his intentions or directions for future use.

"You are absolutely clear about what you said in your email"..
O.K., he's captain obvious, but what did HE understand from it?
Maybe not your points at all.

"It seems too late to come to town and talk,,,blah,blah..."
What he is saying here is he is not planning on seeing you, and he needs to rationalize to himself, why.

I hope he pulls his head outa his hinny >sp? but he seems in total selfish mode.

the thing is that confuses me about the statement "it seems too late to come to town to talk" is that in the last paragraph of my plan b email back up to him (which this is his response to) is that I told him that I was due to have the baby either that night or anytime in the next week. Well it ended up being that night.

So I am trying to figure out if it was "too late to come to town" because he wasn't able to get here before the baby was born, or if it "too late" for us to "talk" about fixing us. The reason this confuses me is because he says "it is now about a healthy delivery blah blah blah"

What I also don't get is the guilt and regret statement. Does this mean that he does not regret getting involved with OW just that I found out? Because that is kind of my interpretation of this. But the whole email just seems kinda all over the place.

Also-

I received flowers the Mond I got back from the Hospital. A dozen pink roses, with a card that read "to my beautiful baby daughter Rylan and her Mother. Happy Birthday and Happy Mothers Day. Love Dad.

Well needless to say I wanted to puke when I read this. It takes more than a genetic donation to be a "Dad". But as I read it, I am about 85-90% sure that his mother sent them and wrote the note. It just doesn't sound like my H writing. Although I can't be sure anymore I used to think that he would never cheat.

Congratulations on your sweet one!

Thanks! I can't stop kissing and squeezing her. I think she is annoyed with me already, oh well at least she can't stop me from doing it yet:)

BoB,
Congratulatons on your new arrival. If you are a first-time mom I hope you have a good book like "The First Years" - you are going to need it.



I felt sick when I read this by your WH. He is so disconnected from you and his own biological child. His written statement and sending flowers is like a Jeckle & Hide - two different people. I'm truly sorry for the pain that you have to go through at one of most special times in your life - your WH is a a..hole! Continue your Plan B - reread it so you continue to remind yourself of what you should be doing and not doing. Don't get caught up in all his fogspeak because you're the only one that will get frustrated trying to analyze nonsense. Focus on yourself and the baby which will be easy to do - I can tell you are a good mom already!

GG

Thanks for all of those who have chimed in so far.

Today I got another whammy- Since I have cut off phone and email, he sent a card snail mail.

The card is a short and cute, about not needing sleep when you've got me with a picture of a baby on the front.

Inside it reads Happy New Mother's Day
His inscription: "I hope you and Rylan are happy and healthy I would love to come and meet her. Please let me know. Mark"

I have given up on the idea of his pulling his head out of his heiny and him reconciling with me so now my issue becomes what do i do for my daughter? How do I know what is right for her. Should I give them the opportunity to meet early on? or Make him wait? I feel like if I make him wait for the courts to set visitation they could lose time to bond and I look like a vindictive beotch.
It is no longer about me or even us (Mark and I) it is about what is right for my daughter and her father if he truly plans on being in her life.

What do I do? How do I respond? Do I respond? Why can't he realize that if he just took the initiative to get on the plane without being told or invited I wouldn't stop him from seeing her. I don't need to be there, I have family that could supervise their visit, so I wouldn't be breaking my plan b. But what does that even matter at this point, it is clear that it is plan D no matter what.

HELP! Please- anyone!?

I wouldn't say D for sure, unless that is what you really want.

I'm no expert, but my gut says I'd probably go back, in writing, with a message. "You have received my letter that instructs you of the path back to Rylan and I, and being a family. Once again, I will not share you, because we committed to eachother and there is no room for another in that equation. (Love lettery in here because that's what a B is, right?) You need to be completely broken away from <<<insert Whorina's name here>>> and committed to being 100% transparent to me such that we can rebuild the trust. Your cellphone and mine would be interchangeable, your number would be changed, and your email addresses changed and passwords readily available to me. I married you out of love, and I still have that love for you, but I will not be in contact with you in anyway unless and until you are willing to commit to a very definitive plan of recovery, so that I cannot be further hurt by your careless and dishonorable behavior. You were always a man of honor, and I expect, hope and believe that you can again be such a man, for me, and for Rylan..." Or something like that.

The problem is that just as I have made it crystal clear in writting several times now what that path back to is, he has made it equally clear that he does not want to take it. Despite my best efforts and trying to read between the lines with him not one thing he has said or done has given me cause to think that he might change his minds. He does not want to be with me, but claims he wants to know his daughter. As painful as it is I just have to accept that just as I have to accept the fact he is her father and if he really is going to be a part of her life I have to try and make sure that I don't let my emotional baggage interfere with their relationship.

And as far as wanting the D, no I don't but none of this is or has been about what I want. It has gone to far, he keeps pushing it through and it is only a matter of time before it is final. Besides, if the birth of his child didn't have some sort of effect on him as far as a reality check, than maybe he really isn't the man I rhought he was

Again, no expert here, but from a distance his daughter may be an abstract concept to his foggy mind.

Has he ever answered whether the A is (supposedly) over?

I would send a note back asking if he ended his A yet? Nothing more. IMHO, Rylan is too young to leave mom and mom is in plan B. Unless you have a trusted relative to sit in the room while he visits with Rylan and you go for a walk, I would not even discuss it yet.

I found your thread--posted to you on the doctors as WS thread...I'm in that category as well, as my WH (maybe FWH??--can't tell yet) is a doctor too.

I'm pretty speechless about your WH and his attitude towards you and your new little one (congrats!!!)...hang tight in plan B...his fog is pretty thick now. Lots of self pity in those emails, but not much action ( I have the same kind of emails from my WH, so I understand...)

Focus on you and your little one...I'll keep following your thread now.

Just spoke to my atty. I have to allow WH to see daughter before court order is in place. Since I am bfdng this poses to be very difficult. Add in the fact that I live with my mother and she just informed me that "he is not welcome at my house" (not that I blame her) I am not sure how to handle this. Small comforts are that this probably will not happen for about a month, and I made it clear to my atty that OW is not to be present.

I am going to look into catholic social services and see if they provide supervised visits in a controlled setting, otherwise I am just going to have to meet him in a public place and sit with him for a few hours and watch. BARF.

Quick overview for those who have not read my entire thread. I am 2500 miles away from my WH, I just gave birth to our DD, I have not seen him since Nov, d-day 9/26/08 but denied, then again on 12/24/08 with undeniable proof. He filed for D at end of Jan, I have no idea if he is still with ow. I have sent plan b letter x2 and am currently in plan b.

My dilema is that my atty told me that I have to allow my wh to come to MI to visit the baby. I live with my parents currently due to finances, they do not want him here, but I think I am might be able to convince them otherwise. Since my DD is so young the visits have to be supervised by myself or my mother- she will not do it. Plus I am bfding so my proximity is also an issue for the situation.

I have made it clear to my atty that ow is not allowed to be present, but I can only make that happen on private property( my parents house) otherwise I can not stop ow from being where baby and I are.

How do I handle this, I am in plan b, the divorce is being pushed through by my WH. So do I chuck plan b move onto plan fu/d ?

When I see him how should I act, what should I say? What do I do? I am not 100% sure what I want anymore, but the one thing I am certain about is that I want the option to see if we are salvageable? Does that make sense?

Please I really need some help with this, it is kinda outside the prescribe plan b so I am stuck.