I have a question and don't know if this is the best place to put it or not.

So far most things I have read talk about both partners taking their part (responsiblity) in the A. Now I am the one that was unfaithful and we are actually in recovery, just taking time. My H has agreed to go back into counseling and possible read some books to help both of us get through this (although for the most part we are doing better than I would expect). Also to help us improve our marriage. He wouldn't read any books before now on this or anything on improving our marriage.

So is this the case? Will he have to admit to having a part in the A? I mean more so a part in not being the husband I needed. I know he will not like this and will cause more problems--so I don't want to get into any books that will say that w/o a counselor to help because he feels he has done nothing wrong in our marriage that would have led me to have the A.

I take 100% for my actions--no one made me do it. I did try for years to talk to my H about our relationship and trying to do something to make it better before I had the A (not an excuse).

I also don't know exactly what books are best (I know that I will be told to get the MB books and I would do that but I have been told others also--all Christian).

Thanks for your help.

Is there a gong bell somewhere????


No, your BS is NOT responsible IN ANY WAY for your affair, unless, of course, he held a gun to your head.


He is 50% responsible for the state of the marriage before your affair.

Your CHOICE to have an affair is completely on you. He had no say in it.




As for books, I suggest that you start with Surviving an Affair.

As far as counseling, I would recommend that you call Marriage Builders and set up phone coaching. I can only tell you that this worked for our marriage. If you want the best chance of recovery, then you should start with the best counseling available for dealing with infidelity.

My understanding, tigerlady, is that you and your H should take equal responsibilty for what was going on in the marriage, but only you can take resposibilty for the affair.
I understand that your needs may not have been met in the marriage, but you had limitless choices in how you responded. You chose an affair.
I always remind myself that I am 50 percent responsible for the marriage, but 0 percent responsible for my WH's affair.
There are two things that seem to happen with recovery-- recovering from the affair, which is on the BS's timetable, and healing what was wrong in the marriage.
I wish you luck with both- you've come to a great site.

No, he had no part in your decision to have affair[s]. He can't be responsible for something in which he had no choice. I don't believe he got a vote in that. You had your affairs because you had poor boundaries. period.

Here is how Dr Harley explains it:
I am not sure what you mean by reading books? Most men are not interested in reading relationship books, so that is an unrealistic expectation. I have found it much more effective to ask him to take the EN and LB questionaires and we learned to meet each others EN's that way. We have a great marriage but he has no interest in reading a book.

OK--first maybe I didn't word the question very well. I KNOW my H is in NO WAY responsible for my A. I take 100% responsibilty for my actions--I DO NOT BLAME HIM AT ALL!! Apparently that did not get across. I am not a naive kid--I know I crossed the line and my boundries were wrong. I know our marriage was not the best before and I was part responsible for that also--I KNOW THAT!!!

I just wanted to make sure I was not getting confused w what I was reading. I did a lot of online reading at first and that just made me worse. DH did not feel a need to do any reading or counseling at first (took him 3 months to say counseling would be good). We just recently thought it best to revisit the issue and go back into counseling. We talked about reading a book together and I have done some research and was concerned about what I was reading. That is where I got confused.

As far as counseling on here--we don't have that kind of money!! Plus I prefer (and so does my H) in person counseling. No offense but I don't believe everything I read because the writers are people and imperfect. I am glad to have this forum to come to but I don't feel that MB is the only way to heal from this. Or that for everyone it is the best way. Sorry but that is JMO!!

I love my H, I have major regrets and would do anything to go back and not do what I did. I have been suicidal over this and how I have hurt him (again not a way to manipulate him--he would not know when I was feeling this). He already trusts me more than I trust him and he has never done anything like this.

Did anyone else trust their WS w/in a few months of D-day? Maybe he knows me better than I know myself--huh???

ok, then why are you here and not there? If there is a better way then why are you here asking us for advice?

Honestly Melody - is it really necessary to be like this with people? Yeesh.....

Hello tigerlady and welcome to MB!!!

You mention that MB is not the only way to rebuid your marriage.

That is true, but I can tell you that my wife and I had tried several counselors and NONE were successful for two reasons. One they did not understand adultery and two they did not hold us accountable and accepted lying. We had made ZERO progress until we began the MB program...

As far as cost is concerned, while it is of course best to avail yourself of the professional resources such as Dr. Harley and the marriage builders weekend, it is not mandatory to start the program with them. Mrs. Flint and I began with the online help including the discussion forum and his books.

You ask if anyone trusts their WS within a few months of D-day and I feel that the answer to that may lie in some of your earlier posts. In one he asked you if you just wanted to be celibate?

The problem, in my opinion, is he doesn't want to engage with you in healing the marriage and is willing to just coast along without being vested with you in it...

He doesn't really care if you guys are ever close emotionally again...

That is why he "trusts" you.

In his world that is the way he can protect himself from you. If he isn't close to you, you can never hurt him again...

Many, many WS have healed their marriages here.

You can too, if you want to.

God bless.

Jim

To be like what? I would really like to know why she is asking the MB forum for advice if she doesn't feel it is the best way.

Good question--huh??? I guess that is what I need to figure out. I started on here after I came clean then didn't come back for a while because I felt like it was not helping me. Funny we have friends who went through this. My H was the husbands accountablity person and the only one he ever talked to. This couple worked on their marriage using God's Word and never read anything from MB and they recovered--fully. So no this is not the only way to fully recover from an A--IMO!!

After some of the responses I get--I wonder why I get on here and even my H wonders why I put myself through this.

First thanks for being kind. I never said that MB wouldn't be the best for us or others, I just know it is not the only way.

As for the celibate comment and my H not being emotionally connected to me. We are far from celibate (that changed quickly). I would expect him to not want to be close but you don't know my H--he is very much emotionally connected to me. Oddly w all this we are best friends. We may be over dependent on each other to the point of being a bad thing--IDK. We have beat each other down through the years. We have been through a lot together (this being the worse).

I never had a LTA, I was never "in love" w anyone else. I came clean when I did because I was stuck in a web of lies and it was killing me. From the time I started down the path until I came clean was just under 3 weeks (this does not include a week that happened about 9 months earlier). So stopping was not hard at all for me. The NC was not even an issue--I was all for it and when someone contacted me I would tell my H or a friend and it was nothing more than a nuisance--thankfully it stopped w/in a month.

That 3 weeks would not have happened if I was given better advise after I had sex w a former classmate after our reunion. I felt so guilty and I wanted to tell my H but was told not to since we were having some major issues at the time and it most likely would have ended our marriage. After that less than one week there was NC w that guy.

It may sound really weird but H and I both believe God prepared his heart for when I told him (it is a long story and I have rambled a lot already).

Honestly the man really does trust me and he really does love me--even I have a hard time believing that (always have). We just need to work on being better to each other and moving forward.

IDK maybe I don't belong here. Except for my H (and a couple girlfriends that know) I have no one to talk to.

Tigerlady,


Like everyone else said your H should not take any responsibility for the A. He is responsible for his part in the breakdown of the marriage, but not responsible for your choice to cheat. You have to own all of the A.

I'm a FWW and it took me a very long time to understand why the A was not partially my DH's fault at all. Keep reading and posting and it will start to make sense.

Sometimes the advice you get will seem very harsh and sting quite a bit. If it stings then it's something you should pay attention to. It stings because it is triggering something in you that what you did was wrong. Read it a few times and really let it sink in.

LC

Oops, sorry Tigerlady I posted prematurely and didn't see this before I replied. Good for you for taking responsibility, that really is one of the first steps.

LC

Hi tigerlady...

As a FWW, I see you struggling with a concept that at one time I struggled with mightily myself...In fact, it was something that I beat my head against the wall about many times, and did a bunch of lovebusting to my husband in the process...See if this wording hits home for you at all...

Unmet needs create vulnerability to an affair...They are NOT the cause of an affair though, as you've been told, shoddy boundaries on your part were the cause...See, I would bet that your husband's needs also weren't being met, and that made him vulnerable to an affair also, but he didn't overstep boundaries and commit adultery...

Make more sense? I know it sure did for me...

As far as MB goes, you're right, it's not the only horse in town, however it IS the fastest horse and therefore the best bet...Mr. W and I found that MB combined with going to church and deepening our relationship with God to be an unbeatable combination...The MB plans fit perfectly with scripture...It's really quite amazing...

As far as reading books go, something that Mr. W and I did in early recovery that REALLY, REALLY helped was to get His Needs, Her Needs on CD and listen to it together, pausing to talk at various points throughout...We did this on a roadtrip, which was just perfect, but of course, you could also do this at home...

At any rate, welcome to MB, take what lifeschoice said to you to heart, I believe you will find that to be of great benefit to you and your marriage...Defensiveness in a relatively new FWS is very common...BTDT...Stick around, listen and learn...You'll be very glad you did I bet...

Mrs. W

P.S. One last tip: Recovery takes a HUMBLE HEART...Getting humble in all aspects of your life will get you further than I could ever express...

LC--It did take me a couple months to realize my DH did not have anything to do w my A. Once I took that responsibilty 100% it did help both me and him. So I am thankful it didn't take me a long time to figure that out (part of that was doing the reading I did after).

I know what I did was wrong. It hurts me a lot. If you ask my DH he would probably tell you that I hurt more than he does (I don't know how that could be--but he knows me and knows that I have very little self-esteem--always been that way). Personally I don't feel the "sting" from people because I know I did something wrong as much as I feel I don't get any good feedback that is helpful--more of an attack--if that makes sense. More like the poster is attacking me for their pain.

Thanks for your response.

TL, there is not a single post in which you were "attacked." C'mon.

Folks went out of their way to be helpful and you responded with rudeness and a backhanded insult to Marriage Builders. NOT COOL. Some of the posters are former wayward spouses themselves so I have no idea what you mean by their "pain."

If you want help here, try to remember that you will attract more flies with honey, not vinegar. Rudeness is not going to get you much.

YES! In fact, out of the people that have given tigerlady advice on this thread, 3 out of 6 have been FWSs...

Mrs. W

Yes, I have done a lot of lovebusting my DH (even though I don't know what they all are). I know that for years I was trying to get him to understand we needed help but went about it all wrong and the words I used were tearing him down.

Yes, unmet needs--we (and I mean most humans) focus on "what do I need?" not "what can I do to meet the other persons needs". All that you said above--I know and it is correct. Before the A we would go to each other when we felt vulnerable to an A and tell the other--that would deflate the feelings and we would move on. I crossed the line and have forever regrets for it.


Fast would be great but I already don't agree w everything I have read on the website. Many things are helpful but not everyone fits into the same box. I don't find anything that fits us (as far as the A).


Funny thing is we have a couple of Dr. Harley's books, just never read them. I do think the CD thing would be better.


I will keep an open mind on here and see what I can do. I find that the Bible study I am in helps me out a lot. We do go to church and do devotions together. OH--what does BTDT mean??? As for defensiveness--I have always been that way. See above post re what I feel about that on here. Thanks for the tip--I work on having a Humble Heart all the time. As with all of us--I am a work in progress--not complete until I meet Jesus.

I did have a good talk w my DH this morning (we are both sick so we are home from church). He really feels we are a lot further in our recovery than I sometimes think. Also he is very much against digging up past when he is a move forward person. Why relive a painful thing that we have been through when all it would do is set us back. Believe me the first few months we talked this to death--I answered every question he had, did everything he asked and asked for forgiveness more than I can count (he forgave me the day I came clean).

I guess, like raising kids, you read a lot of books but each kid is different and you can not treat them all the same. DH and I feel the same about this. Our situation is different than yours, we are all different--recovery will not be the same for everyone. We love each other and are committed to each other until death due us part!! Which I hope and pray is a LONG time.

Felt like an attack to me.


I don't feel I had backhanded insults to MB--I have my opinions--doesn't everyone??? Also, I wasn't trying to be rude--I was trying to reword to make my point--so people would understand what I was trying to say. I am not perfect and not always good at expressing my needs. Yes, I know some responses come from FWS. I read them!!


First, I was not in anyway trying to be rude!! If I came across that way I am sorry.

Second, I think you need to read your post and think about what you just said--who is the one here that is spitting vinegar??? Who is the one being rude??? Do you want me to leave???

Please do not respond to anymore of my posts. I have had others (as you can see if you read them) that really do help and make me think. I do appreciate their posts.

My DH wants me to leave this site completely because of your posts--will that help me???

Well, you were rude and I appreciate your apology. Folks - who didn't have to - went to the trouble of responding to your question and you responded with insults. Sorry, but that is not cool. You came here looking for help, not the other way around.

Folks do want to help you, TigerLady, but there is no reason to slap folks when you don't like the answer or pretend like you were "attacked."

Anyway, no hard feelings. I am willing to leave it behind.

I disagree!! I was not trying to be rude. If I am so much trouble then I will leave. I did not respond w insults.


Maybe I am in the wrong place for help. I did not slap folks--that is what you are doing to me--do you not see that!!!!


No hard feelings--only because you feel you are right and I am wrong. I asked you to not respond to any of my post--you didn't respect that.

TL, I don't know if you are in the right place to get help. Only you can answer that. You stated previously that you did not believe that MB was the best answer for you and that you didn't get good feedback, which led me to ask why you would come here to ask for help.

However, If you don't want me to respond, then stop responding to ME. I have every right to respond to your posts addressing me.

Tigerlady, I think the problem is that posters pointed out something you did not want to hear and do not want to face. They pointed out the folly of blaming your H for your affair and you didn't like hearing that:


You said that you take "100% responsibility" after you have just blamed your H, which is contradictory. Your anger is about the fact that posters pointed this out to you, not because they were rude or unhelpful. On the contrary, their posts WERE HELPFUL. You just didn't want to hear it.

They weren't "attacking" you, they were trying to help you.

My suggestion would be to try and be a little more open minded to what you are hearing here. Just because you don't WANT to hear something does not mean that you don't NEED to hear it.

TigerLady,
Don't let the people that hate WSs make you leave... there are a lot of good people here like MrsWondering.. they will show up.

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of this. The problem is there are a lot of bitter wounded people here too...and they might take their pain out on you thinking they are helping your H...

About your original question. Even the Bible warns of "Keeping yourself from your spouse" is a way to let the enemy in and subjects your spouse to temptation. I don't think God only meant sexually.

My spouse betrayed me. When I called my minister he told me it took two people to cause an A. I said "Yes... her and him"
He said "No you and her" I HUNG UP... I was so mad at him.

He called back and said "I didn't mean you DESERVED it or CAUSED it" "I meant that although your WS is currently breaking the vow of "Forsaking all others till..." YOU MAY HAVE broken OTHER vows"

He told me for instance that if I broke the vow of "Love honor and cherish" IN GOD'S EYES I had broken a vow EQUALLY important (although a lot less publicly despicable) as forsaking all others.

Did your spouse deserve your A? NO NO NO... did you make a bad choice? YES YES YES....
BUT... did he leave you more open to temptation by breaking OTHER VOWS... probably...only YOU and HE know that for sure.

AGAIN... before they start attacking ME....let me make it perfectly CLEAR... YOUR HUSBAND DIDN'T CAUSE OR DESERVE YOUR "A"

But... when you guys find out what needs your OM filled that your H DIDN'T fill... and as long as you ALLOW him to fill these needs and......

HAVE NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER WITH YOUR OM AT ALL EVEN IF HE IS ON FIRE... (LEAVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE TO PUT HIM OUT!!) LOL...

You cannot EVER EVER EVER be friends with this man again...don't let him guilt you into ANY contact.... HE ALSO made a VERY bad choice and must BACK OFF...
My WW's OM used to guilt her into talking to him by threatening to jump off a bridge.... LET HEM JUMP if he makes THAT bad choice too.... Heck.... I offered to drive him to ANY bridge in the state!! LOL...

ANYWAY... if you guys get into PROFESSIONAL counseling FAST (Go to your church or any church if money is a problem)I would suggest adding GOD to Harley anyway....

You will be on your way to a better marriage than you had even in the beginning. You will finally have the correct tools...

Good Luck and Prayers... FRANK

OH... A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS..

You may have withdrawal and actually miss your OM... This is pretty usual. Affairs are a kind of addiction. You might have been addicted to how your OM made you "feel".

This is simply because he found a way to fill some needs. A lot of times they are simply good listeners and remember the things you complain your H didn't do. Then they simply do that and don't do things you hated your H to do.

This causes a false sense of fondness for that person. Most times soon after the marriage is destroyed....the OPs show their "True" self. And fail miserably because they no longer have the BS to do the opposite of...

FINALLY.....
YOU DID NOT RUIN OMs LIFE.... HE MADE HIS OWN CHOICES
YOU DO HAVE TO BE FULLY ACCOUNTABLE TO YOUR H FOR A WHILE SO TRUST CAN GROW....
YOU ARE NOT A BAD PERSON...EVERYONE IS POTENTIALLY A WS (according to Harley's empty Love Bank concept) and the enemy's power. (God doesn't send soul mates to married people...someone does though....)

So... that's enough for tonight.... God Bless... FRANK

I understand--I tell my DH about what I do on here and after telling him about some of the comment HE is the one that told me to get off of here and not listen to people that are going to take me down when that is not what I need--they don't understand US!! So how they are helping him I have no idea. In fact they are making like MB even less and even though I have told him to get on here for advise--he will not do it at this point because of what I have gone through--if that makes sense.


I do understand. I don't blame my DH for my A. We have had marriage troubles from the start--we have both broken our vows in many ways before this happened. DH will admit to not being a very good husband for at least the first half of our marriage--he already has. I KNOW that does not give me any right to do what I did.


I know he didn't deserve what I did to him. I HATE that I hurt him like that (more than words could ever express). Me making a bad choice--that is an understatement. IT IS MY BIGGEST REGRET--EVER!!! I know my DH didn't cause the A.


We are working on what needs I need that have gone unmet (and the same for my DH).

As for the OM, I posted earlier about how my situation happened. I had no feelings for anyone. There was not trying to guilt me back or anything like that. No contact was very easy for me--I didn't want to have any contact. So even though I got a couple emails and one text over a month after coming clean--my DH knew all about them and told me to ignore them--I did and deleted them. Then done--no more. I don't think anyone will contact me now. I only have one email account that is possible for contact and that is only because I can't close it. Anything that goes in there goes to an accountablity friend and she has said nothing (I don't go in there--don't care).

That is one reason this is hard to find the help, not everyone fits into a box. I have not read anything that fits our situation.


Our church does have lay counselors, one of which I met w for a few months following d-day. We both talked to our pastor w/in the first few days after d-day (seperately). We are looking into what would be the best counseling for us.

I do want to say that after all that went on this weekend w this post I was about to just leave and never come back here (my DH didn't want me to come back here). But I thought I would just check in case there were others that were helpful like Mrs. W. It seems there are more BS on here (IDK) but it is NOT helpful for them to come in and place their hurt on me for asking a question (which I did not word right the first time and then reworded).

Anyway, thank you for being kind and posting truth in a caring manner to me.

No withdrawal here. The only addiction was I was told I was a sex addict (I am still unsure if that is true but I can see some truth in it). I do not feel any guilt for any of the men I was w. I felt bad for their wives and would think "no wonder their wives don't want to have sex w them--they are aweful". That may just sound stupid but it is what I thought. I never saw them as "real men" but idiots (which of course I was in that catagory also). If my marriage would have ended NONE of the guys I was w or in contact w would have wanted anything more than sex from me. In fact if I told them I was getting a divorce they would have dissappeared.


I have been and he trusts me. Weird but he does. We talked about this yest. so I made sure I was not giving out incorrect info on here. He said there are times when I get down that he worries a bit but he really does trust me. I have not given him any reason not to in 19 months and I plan to keep it that way the rest of our lives.

As for me being a bad person (my DH would love if I could get it through my head that I am not a bad person--another issue of mine that was there even before the A). We both have know for all our marriage we were humans and no one is exempt from being a WS. We used to talk about it when one of us was tempted--that always deflated the feelings.

Again thanks for you help and kindness in the truth. See people can express the truth in love (Biblically that is the way it is suppose to be and I didn't put love there except for the fact that is what the Bible says).

HI TL,
Like I said.. you really do have a good grasp on this...
I'm glad to hear there is no withdrawal.. that makes recovery a lot harder...
Sorry to hear about your addiction...any type is very difficult in a marriage. My SIL is a crack addict. (Clean for 8 months Praise God!!) He hid it well as he still ran his business and all that. Except for the 3 day disappearing act every few months we never would have know.
Anyway...he turned to the Lord for strength and was Baptized last week. He is becoming more and more the man God wants him to be. And the husband my daughter needs him to be. And the Father my precious grandsons deserve him to be...

So NOTHING is impossible with God! I'll add you and your family to my prayers... God Bless, In Christian Love Frank

Oh my God Frank, is it really you? You might not remember me but i have thought of you and your wife often down through the years, we met on this board in 1999 i think.

My name is Gabrielle and i am from Ireland, we used to keep in contact via email too, do you remember?

I couldnt believe to see your username, i would love to know how you are, you can catch up with me over on my thread called IS THERE ANY HOPE FOR US. I dont know how to add the link to it.

Gabrielle xxx

So sorry for hijacking the thread