AUGUST, DECEMBER,JANUARY AND FEBRUARY ARE THE KEY PORTIONS IF YOUR IMPATIENT TO UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE PICTURE.

My wife is having an affair with another man and is trying to justify to herself why we should not be married.

The below information will have inaccuracies, but the general information is as close to accurate as can be.

Summary of her reaction to leaving the other man:
First time, she said she’d have to go through that depression again which made her want to kill herself. That made me back off at the time because I love her, and don’t want her to hurt herself.

The second time I asked she was more bolstered and said no she wouldn’t.

The third time she said she would never leave him.

The fourth she told me it wasn’t him she was leaving me for, it was because she was leaving me.

In one of our conversations she broke down and said, "Please don't tell my family, don't take them away from me." So her family knowing is a big deal and it's an action that I'm slowly coming to realize maybe my only choice but also at the cost of her because she'll hate me.


MISCILANEOUS INFORMATION CONCERNING TIME USAGE OR LOSS BETWEEN US: I began Mid-shifts(7pm-7am in the morning.) July 1st. I was on it from July 1st to Jan 1st. I would sleep at 7am to 3am and later often since I’m able to go for 9-10 hours if not woken.

Throughout the whole summer my wife told me that while I was sleeping she would wander around town bored out of her mind. She exclaimed how she would try and wake me and I wouldn’t get up from bed. Except I must argue that many times I’d get up at 12pm or other times for pre-scheduled events together sacrificing some sleep. I will admit some times I did stay up past 7am to around 9am before going to bed.[/b]

I have been through so much as you'd expect.

I have known about the attraction my wife has had to the other man for years, but trusted my wife to not do anything wrong with him. This last year we've had a hard time.

This all begins from June-July.

[b](June) In June on my first month off of teaching school for her summer I spent the whole month building my new computer. I was very proud of the accomplishment because it’s not easy to do but WW had no appreciation for my devotion to the effort. She saw it as me ignoring her COMPLETELY. And in some ways I admit I did for it. The thing that didn’t occur to me was how bored she must have been downstairs with 24 hours a day to herself. At the time she was spending her time writing a “novella”. Which made it seem like she was enjoying herself none the less because for all my efforts I couldn’t get her away from writing that thing.

In July-September I did an English class.

What she failes to realize is that she blames me for ignoring her, but she has gone and done Playhouse shows that consume her entire evenings for months at a time and I only loved her the more for her devotion to something she loved. I spent that kind of time building a machine at expert precision capabilities and she had no love for the effort.

(JULY) Then my wife and the other man got in a fight where my wife was lied to by him several times about other girls he was dating and she was mad that he kept concealing the fact that there were other girls he was dating. To me I was a bit confused why it mattered but only saw that it was the "lying" that was upsetting her and not for the RED FLAG clue that she had something going on with him. I thought she was mad that he was just not telling her about his life when she’d ask.

Mid July) We went to a family gathering in Johnson City where I was working on an advanced English writing course. During the event I spent much of my time hanging with the family and on the last day was forced to sit down and finish my essay paper. Simply because a family event converged with school does not mean I didn’t spent time with the family. No gaming books or gaming in my head just family and school so I see no fault in this.

(AUGUST 10-14) At one point in August the other man was leaving to a place hours away for good. My wife asked if she could kiss him good bye. Being me, I trusted her and eventually conceded that a lip-to-lip good bye kiss would be fine. Then later she confessed the kiss became a deep affectionate kiss and I was stunned. (She said that the kiss was when she felt that she was in love with the other man.) She said nothing else happened though so I let it go. I had posted on another forum elsewhere and many folks suggested "affair" yet I trusted her a great deal that I figured the kiss had to be all it that happened. And after some personal turmoil I let it go. Inside of this date we both went on a min-vacation because we both felt that we should spend some together time. And I now recall that it was enjoyable but she wasn’t all there. She seemed distracted.

(FACTS: She slept with him multiple times in August and maybe before. She told me the kiss was first then a few days later they slept together. Later I pieced together based on the number of times she admitted that they were sleeping together more than that and that the KISS did not precipitate the affair like she let me believe. She let me blame myself for letting her kiss him.


(August 15) Then the other man finally left for his distant location in the middle of August which was the same week of the kiss. This was the end of their friendship because they had some HUGE fight and they were not talking anymore and I was a bit happy about this personally because that kiss bothered the [censored] out of me.

When the other man left it was under bad terms later. Apparently he slept with my wife and also had someone else on the side. So he was double-timing her. I don't understand why she is still wanting to be with him. This was an actual break up between them up till DECEMBER when he came back and apologized.

(August Thanksgiving) I spent the whole weekend with the family and enjoying myself. I brought no gaming books had no gaming in mind and was actually talking to family and spending time enjoying their company. To the detriment of my grade on that Essay paper I only spent an evening working on it. I even talked to Fran and others about the concepts I was learning in class, although everyone was more interested in the A&M game.

(August-October) Was hell. And me on midshift) We talked mildly about how we both knew our relationship was hurting and I couldn't figure out why because my wife wasn't talking to me and she was often very sad that the other man had left which I presumed was because they were best friends. In many ways I spent time with her and was still on mid shift. Almost all mornings she’d get up for work and I’d make her breakfast before going to bed myself because I wanted to show her I loved her and cared for her. I would OFTEN go to bed on my weekends at night with her so we could sleep together and get up together in the day even though it wrecked my sleep schedule. As my normal time for sleep was 7am. Sometimes I would stay up through my sleep time so that in the evening we’d be able to sleep together. Other times I would keep a normal schedule on my weekends so as to keep my normal work/sleep cycle. She took offense to this sometimes because she’d hint at “sex” by asking if I’d come to bed. My response would be that I can’t, I have to stay up, I’m on mids. Not once did she tell me it was innuendo for come down stairs to make love to me. She’d get PISSED and storm downstairs. This happened several times and she wouldn’t explain why she was so mad. She expected me to read her mind. The irony was that she blames me playing computer games. I’m so sorry that I didn’t understand. Each of those times I was playing with long distance friends who I barely spoke to and several times with her family of her own.

From Mid October to Mid December I did a Computer course and an Algebra course which consumed a massive chunk of time. The Computer course was busy work that I’d get done when at work and the Algebra I’d work on at home. I passed the Computer course but failed Algebra.

(OCTOBER 15th to Nov) I had been doing my two Courses. A Computer class that was busy work and the Algebra course. The course’s were demanding on me for many reasons. Having been homeschooled the California education system had a loophole that let me pass High School without having done any pre-algebra type coursework. So Intermediate Algebra was an entirely new concepts and having to relearn mathematical methods I’d not used in seven years. I from week two had fallen behind a week the whole way through and was struggling to catch up every week till the end. If my wife would recall how much I bitched about math and how stressed, crying, angry, and frustrated I was at the course. That just as I understood a concept the damn class pushed me to use it with another one I barely understood until eventually everything was mashed together and I couldn’t figure out how to break the numbers apart. This ate into my entire life and free time. In the Computer course I had even let several assignments fail knowing I could still get an “A” to give me more time at the Algebra course.

(November) She hit me with a doozy that she was falling out of love with me. I was shocked. For a moment I almost agreed that I was too but realized quickly it was simply that my work schedule kept us from spending quality time together and the school work on top of that. Unfortunately I had just started a new term of Mids for three months and nobody would trade shifts with me. So I redoubled my efforts to spend time with her. I came up with dates and places to go and movies and dinner as often as we could muster. I even came up with going to the MET opera, Phantom of the Opera(her idea), and if I recall Rent. The problem was that just as I tried to start spending more time with her she started a semi-professional playhouse production. My weekends were Friday night-Sunday night. The only night we had off together was Sundays. The production she started also used up Friday and Saturday for rehearsal. So I was SOL at spending time with her even more so now. Sundays we’d spend time but she was always so tired she just wanted to rest and our nightlife went to [censored] and it didn’t help that I was absorbed in my Algebra work almost every Sunday and even had to take leave time several times to hold off heading into work those evenings trying to complete coursework. I was used to her being unavailable in the past when she did playhouse productions so just let her be and did my own thing as well. We just had a very unfortunate last three months of 2008.

(December) This is about when the other man came into the picture again I believe. They had begun to apologies and make up as friends, so I thought. My wife asked if it was ok for them to mend their friendship and confusedly I said exactly, “I suppose so,” because I recalled the overly passionate kiss. Yet I trusted her and so let them start talking again. She was still doing the playhouse productions all through December. Then middle of December she told me that she HAD fallen out of love with me. I was shocked. I was hurt and afraid. I was desperate to recover. I was desperate for my next shift rotation to begin so I could be back on Days on Jan 1st and we could work on our relationship.

Then I came to a conclusion at the end of December as pieces fell into place in my head that this falling out of love coincided with the return of the other man. That she and the other man were in love and when I asked her she reluctantly said she probably was. I was stunned. I had to ask and she didn't tell me. She said she didn’t know how it happened and that it just did. We had a conversation where she promised that no matter what I could ask a question and she would tell me the truth. When I’ve asked for the truth she in the future beyond this point has obscured facts let me think I was at fault, or that an action determined certain events. She has consistently left me to determine the facts out of what she’s told me. I have no idea how true anything she has said is because of this.

(January) Now knowing they had affections I told her that they could not be together alone. She reluctantly agreed. I didn’t realize that there was reluctance until later. Immediately she broke that promise and drove him home one night, but she told me. And I said NEVER AGAIN. She again broke that promise when his car broke down and he had to get to his college several hours away. When she got home utterly late I asked what happened and she first lied to me about her whereabouts. Then came clean and told me that she drove the other man all the way to his college two hours away. I asked how long a drive it was and she said two hours. Both ways is 4 hours and this was at night so no traffic. The total trip time was 5 hours and 30 minutes. I caught the discrepancy when I asked what time they left town. She said 8pm. I asked how long to get there. 2 hours. She stayed at his place for an hour and a half longer than necessary. She arrived home at 1:30am. I decided to trust her and let it be. She still claims nothing happened. I am unsure due to all the lies now.

I then woke up one evening at 1am to hear her on the phone with him and saying his name and saying "I love you so very much." And then they talked about e-mails and an upcoming weekend that they'll get to see each other. Which was in Houston on the 23rd. I listened through our bedroom door for thirty minutes as they flirted and talked about an e-mail which at that point my wife’s voice dropped to a near whisper saying, “I won’t mention the contents, but you’ll like it.” She eventually hung up, I quickly went and got back into bed and five minutes later came out of the bedroom to use the restroom and got some water. She asked if I had woken her and I said, no, why? And she said no reason at all just that she was still up grading papers. (Previously in the evening I had even tried to devise a way to help her do faster in fact, but only one person can log into the database at a time she said. This is only mentioned to show that I try to support her as much as I can.)

This led to me going from concerned to afraid. I then for the first time in my life broke my trust of privacy to her and looked at her e-mails. What I discovered shocked and tore me apart. I couldn’t read them clearly through all the tears and crying. They were loving, and talking about dirty thoughts and such. I then constantly told her that she can’t be alone with him. Under ALL terms not alone. Then I tried to ask her not to go. She got mad at me for that because money had been paid to go. She probably was apprehensive about my actions and concerns but didn’t show it.

I spent the whole week up to the convention in a severe panic. I couldn’t sleep and was a nervous wreck because the e-mails talked about being loving and how much they loved each other. I couldn’t confront My wife because I knew she’d see the violation of her privacy as a criminal thing…but here I was confronting the possibility of infidelity.

Then she left for the Houston convention.

She got her own hotel.

His room was at the convention center.

I then still in a panic went day to day scared out of my mind. I then reread all the e-mails and was able to not cry. I then saw the most criminal line ever,”…us singing next to each other together in bed.”

I called her immediately and asked her point blank, "did you sleep with the other man. She paused for a while and said,”Yes.” When I asked the obvious question,”Why?” She said “Why else does someone sleep with another?” She wanted to hang up then and I wanted to talk. I called back three times and she finally started yelling and crying for me to leave her alone. I found out later that the other man spent the whole night holding her while she cried.

(KEEP IN MIND THAT I HAD TO DISCOVER THE AFFAIR): She told me that she didn’t tell me about it in August because she didn’t want me to tell her to stop. And against our pre-marital agreement concerning always telling about potential or actual affairs, she did not tell me after the fact either. She claims to have not told me to protect me, later she professed that that she didn’t tell me to protect herself.

When she got home I had bought flowers for her. I wanted her to know I still love her.

She claims nothing happened at Houston (Or ever since August). I do know they were alone together in a car trip. And that in the same car trip was when I called. I do know they spent that night together. I don’t know if sexual activity occurred that weekend but she claims nothing had happened. In any event, she has been having an emotional affair with him since the middle of December up to this point.

Since then they’ve been talking constantly and phoning, text messaging, e-mailing, and using Facebook to communicate.

My wife has refused to sever contact with him. She say’s if she were to pick she would pick him over me.

We started counseling which she initiated, but she is not taking it seriously so far. The counselors said sever contact with the other man and she didn’t. She resents him now for that.

The same week I discovered the cheating the 23rd-25th of January I moved out of the house to a friend’s at HER request(I chose to go because I wanted to be able to find her easily). She said either of us could move out but she wanted a separation. This coincided with my discovery of her affair. (Distance in my mind, so she could continue it without me hovering to interfere.)She claimed I was hovering. And DAMN RIGHT I WAS! SHE"S MY WIFE WHO I LOVE!

The very first counseling meeting (Her and him alone) the counselor told her that she had to leave the other man. Since then she has hated him and doesn’t like him. She went to three sessions on her own. And still has maintained contact with the other man.

(February)
My wife wouldn’t leave the other man but she tried to compromise that she’d talk to him less. I had a hard time believing this because I had moved out and obviously couldn’t monitor her.
We’ve gone to two counselor sessions together only.

On our first meeting at the counselor I had asked “Have you kept to the agreement to reduce communication?” She said,”Yes.” I then asked, “Do you have any plans in the year to see or meet with the other man?” She again said,”No”. I asked again if she was being honest,” She said,”Yes she was being honest!” And got angry at me. I then asked if I could see her e-mail and she resisted at first and then she let me…although she claims I forced her. I then asked if I could read them and she got mad that I was pushing. When we got home and she logged into her e-mail, what I saw was my wife e-mailing the other man every day except one day in a ten day span and obviously not keeping to the compromise.

At that point I was enraged although I hadn’t yelled at her. It was internal. Why was she lying to me and not being honest? At the counselor's even! (KEEP IN MIND IN RED ABOVE THAT SHE SAID SHE WOULD ALWAYS TELL ME THE TRUTH.)

Because she was lying to me I had a need to know what she was saying to him. As she turned away from her computer for a minute I quickly forwarded one of the e-mails to myself. And this e-mail showed that she was meeting him in 17 days which I found out from her was San Marcos(Feb 27th)AGAIN she lied to me! That night she called and asked if I had forwarded one of her e-mails. Being honest I answered right away,”Yes.” Her next words were,”I want a divorce.” If you notice all of her reasons for divorce are absolutely SHALLOW.

That weekend Feb 7th she went to see her sister Claire who she told everything apparently. My wife had also made a giant box “care package” for the other man of food and who knows what else(found out the picture of them was in it too). Just as she was leaving the apartment while I was there and not at my current residence with my friend, my wife said, ”She just wants us to be friends.” I lost it at that point. I was feeling every painful emotion possible. The whole night I packed my things in the house I didn’t sleep, I didn’t eat, I left letters all over exclaiming how mean to me she is being. I almost collected all the jewelry I ever gave her but put it all back when I realized at that moment I was being vindictive.

I then went to get a picture of her and the other man in her dresser drawer. I really had no idea what I was going to do with it, but it wasn’t there. Instead I found a comparison sheet of ME VS the other man. On the paper it talked about “numerous” sexual encounters with the other man, which did not coincide with her story that she claims. She claimed the kiss premeditated the sexual encounter several days later. She claims I assumed only one time. She told me herself that there was only one time by telling me that the kiss happened first, sex, and then the other man left town. This set me into an even greater rage. Especially that the comparisons were things she could talk to me about and we could work out in counseling.

I was at the apartment driving back and forth between residences moving stuff till around 9am. On my last trip I passed our bank and thought about how people warned me the other spouse can go crazy and take all the money. So I went into the bank to make a checking account for myself just in case. Then my emotions carried me further. I became crushed with fear and took all but $800 from the bank account and moved it to my new checking account. My rational was that I was protecting myself from my wife. Who had been doing nothing but lying to me and cheating on me.

I thought I was being rational considering that I never would have expected her to cheat and lie to me. Then I called her and told her what I did. And as she screamed how I was stealing from her I realized that I was sinking to her level. I was becoming this other person who was not thinking about the consequences of ones actions. I immediately turned around and put all our money back into the bank.

Since then she has held that over my head as being a greater crime than her infidelity.

Then I returned to the apartment and cleaned up all my pissed and angry messages (which I wrote and put around the apartment), cleaned the house and made the bed. I then started taking the wedding candle and pictures to take home with me…then realized I’d already had moved more of my stuff out of the house than I knew what to do with. So I left them on the kitchen table and realizing she wanted a divorce decided to light our wedding candle and leave my wedding ring on a picture of us on that wonderful day.

She did not appreciate the melodrama when she got home to find a burning candle and my ring. I also admitted to the messages everywhere and such and she has decided that “she doesn’t feel safe” around me even though I’ve never struck her. I’ve expressed profanity a few times.

We went to dinner one evening of Feb 22nd. We talked and I tried to admit to my wife I’m glad that this mess had occurred because it has changed me in great ways and shown me how much I love her. Her retort was very cruel. That she learned how little she loved me and that she was happy she did it because she found that out. Rather than what I would have wanted which would be,"I realized how much we need to work to improve our marriage."

Since then I’ve yelled at her several times to leave the other man and she exclaims that she won’t. And that if I make her leave him she will “resent” me. She doesn’t even realize that what she is doing is making me resent her. She has used my love for her to protect herself over and over. By saying she wants a divorce it’s made me tiptoe. She doesn’t want her family to know that she is having an affair. She acting entirely on emotion and not even realizing how she is acting. I feel that my wife is not acting out of rational feelings that I am an inadequate husband but that she is infatuated with another man and trying to create reasons to justify her actions.

Our second Counselor meeting I somehow ended up being the one begging for ONE MORE CHANCE. Because of the BANKING INCIDENT. It wasn’t even defined as to what that one more chance was.

And now I don’t know why I was the one begging. I’m the one that was cheated on and has been given half truths and lied to outright in other cases. My feelings are that she is doing the counseling only to show a pretense of effort at fixing our problems for her image. The reason I believe this is because of all the lies and obfuscation of the truth she has provided. If she were honestly working to fix our marriage she would separate herself from the other man and look to make our love stronger.

I recently called two family members and told them everything because they were our marriage sponsors. I felt that they could introduce some wisdom into our marriage issues. I then told my wife I had talked to them and she felt I went over her head. That I’m not allowed to talk to family without consulting her. She has taken this as reason to revoke my ONE MORE CHANCE. And is asking for a Final Divorce.

I feel that she is trying to hide this and at the same time create a case to blame me in her mind. I feel that my only next step is to bring her to her parents and sit down and make her admit the infidelity outloud.

Expose to everybody

Even if it angers her and causes her to hate me?

Your marriage can survive her anger. IT CAN NOT SURVIVE AN AFFAIR. EXPOSE.

Do not underestimate this.

I will repeat it.

Your marriage can survive her anger. IT. CAN. NOT. SURVIVE. AN. AFFAIR. EXPOSE.

Some veteran MBers will be here soon. TAKE ALL THEIR ADVICE.

YES!!

OK, big news flash here Moncouer, all of the above quote is already true.

So what it it you actually want here? Are you trying to R your M or are you patiently using Plan Hope, where you "hope" she will change her mind and love you again? That ain't going to work, I promise you.

Have you read Dr Harley's Q&A portion of this web site? Please read and inform yourself.

Do you have any idea what marital boundaries are or even look like? You WW asked your permission to have an A and you said yes, because you loved her and trusted her not to really do it.

??????????????????????????

Moncouer, you are about as lost as an easter egg in August.

Could you call the Harley's for counseling, cause without a giant wakeup call, I'm afraid you don't have a clue. Sorry to be so blunt, but your thread borders on ridiculous.

All Blessings,
Jerry

So what it it you actually want here? Are you trying to R your M or are you patiently using Plan Hope, where you "hope" she will change her mind and love you again? That ain't going to work, I promise you.

I don't know what "R" is? Ruin? NO I"M NOT TRYING TO ruin it, I'm trying to save it. I was trying to do counseling I don't know how to deal with this. Your reply acts like I should know what the [censored] I'm doing...why do you think I'm here?

WHAT WILL WORK THEN?

Have you read Dr Harley's Q&A portion of this web site? Please read and inform yourself.

I've read them and tried them...but she just keeps going further and further away. She won't work with me at all outside of counseling. Sometimes she talks to me but she only finds reason to get angry when I confront her failings.

Do you have any idea what marital boundaries are or even look like? You WW asked your permission to have an A and you said yes, because you loved her and trusted her not to really do it.

I was torn over letting her kiss him to begin with, and should have gone with my gut and told her no. It didn't matter though, she already [censored] him before the kiss. She just asked to try and absolve guilt.



Moncouer, you are about as lost as an easter egg in August.

YEs, yes, I [censored] am.

Could you call the Harley's for counseling, cause without a giant wakeup call, I'm afraid you don't have a clue. Sorry to be so blunt, but your thread borders on ridiculous.

What wakeup and I needing?

All Blessings,
Jerry

[/quote]

What number?

This site talks about being patient and trying to show her your love and your telling me I'm messing up in trying to be patient? WHAT?

I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO DO!

You need to be patient but you do not need to be a doormat. Work Plan A as best you can and work to kill the A too.

Can someone post the carrot and stick of Plan A?

You let her kiss an OM?
Do NOT shield or protect her from any of the guilt she should feel. There are plenty of other people who will do that.

Why in the he77 would you let your wife kiss another man? WAKE UP

*Sigh* I'm ME. That's all I can say.

But your hyper-focusing. She already DID the deed before asking me. So it doesn't really matter that I did other than to show my personality.

What is plan A exactly?

I just talked to her father. He's not going to say anything against my wifes actions. He said he would be staying out of it. He said I can talk to him though anytime.

How does exposure work if the family won't help?

I'm more afraid of destroying the relationship by exposure... Everyone around me I've told about the idea thinks it'll only make things worse.

She is already declaring divorce on me.

How does a marriage survive divorce in Texas if she is angry?

I'm afraid she'll divorce...she is already claiming she will after finding out I told one pair of family.

Where in Texas are you? Anywhere near Houston? If she intends to file you need to file first. Then you can delay, delay, delay!!

I filed in 2007. I'm not divorced YET!! LOL!! I asked my attorney to delay. Well, did he EVER!!

But anyway, if you are near Houston, let me know. You need the best representation you can get and he is IT!

Charlotte

Mon,

You are falling into a classic pattern that is followed by many BHes on this board. You lack balls and live in fear of upsetting your cheating wife.

Guess what? The men who succeed here are the ones who grow a pair and ACT regardless of how badly it upsets the WW.

Hope will get you nowhere. Action will.

So that means you expose to EVERYONE. Friends, family and OM's family.

Will it tick her off? Yes. Big time.

But the affair will continue if you don't.

And I can't believe you would allow her to disrespect you as she has with LETTING her kiss another man. Absolutely incredible.

So it's time to stop living in fear, grow a pair, and follow plans that work. Doing nothing and being afraid don't work. AT ALL.

I've never seen it work.

That being said:

If you're young and have no kids with this woman, then cut your losses.

We have no kids, but I love this woman. She is so much to me.

My first everything.

What is my next step after exposure?

You guys say expose, but I see nothing in the Q&A about this process.

Any examples of what a good exposure letter or thing to say is? How much information and such? How to deliver it?

A massive plan A.

What you do is this:

Your WW: I can't believe you told everyone about my relationship with XX! We're through.

You: I'm sorry you're mad, would you like a potato chip? (Whoever said that, sorry, I don't remember.)

Exposure seems like a love buster to me?

No. It's not.

And look at it this way, you have ALREADY lost her. So do what needs to be done. Expose the affair to everyone.

It DOES help. And you get support from places you would never expect.

Charlotte

Where should I expose too?

EVeryone!

Her work (she may be using company time to affair with. I mean if you had an affair you would try to use the work phone which your spouse couldn't keep up with), her family.

ANYONE who can influence her!

One woman's affair ended the second her parents were exposed to. They talked to her and BAM it was done.

Work, family, close friends...anyone who can be a positive influence for you.

You don't have to go as far as your mail carrier or your vet but you will sure want to once you get started. I almost did. Well, I did to the vet's assistant and she told the vet, but we know them well, LOL.

Charlotte

P.S.) Don't warn your WW that you are going to expose, either. This would give her an opportunity to paint you as looney tunes. That's what WS & OW did with OWH. But I got evidence that he couldn't deny so it was over for their lies.

When I told OMW, my WW texted me the next day and said that she thought she might love me again but she was wrong.

Here is what I have noticed:

Exposure makes them mad for a bit but then it's over.

The longer the A lasts, the truly madder they seem to get at you.


expose, expose, expose


Just tell her family what I told my WW family, you wanted them to know the truth so they could give good advice and guidance. Tell them you knew if they got bad information they would give bad advice.

You have to stop being Mr. Needy. She has cheated on you. Had sex with another man. You have tried to love her back. That never works while a spouse is in the fog. You have to pull away emotionally. You have to look after yourself. You have to regain your confidence. Right now she has zero respect for you. Why? Because after each time you took her back. You sent her the message that what she was doing was OK. Read the first part of your post. And how each subsequent betrayal, she was less and less convicted about. You convinced her that you wouldn't leave her when she cheats. How could she "not" continue cheating with a free pass. You should have kicked her a$$ out then. She should have had to work to earn your love and trust. But because you didn't require that of her. You convinced her that your love was not valuable enough. How could she think anything different? My advice is to start divorce proceedings. When she sees you starting them she will either balk at going through with it or she will want to go through with it. One or the other. But I will tell you that the way you are handling it now. She will eventually leave you. Because your love will be of no value. If you weren't willing to hold your love dear. Why would she?

The affair is now long distance.

It was physical for a time and now he's two hours away.

Why isn't there a sticky on Exposure to make this easier?

Just tell everybody about it. Pretty simple. Friends, family, yours, hers OM's.

She is also begging me to divorce her...to leave her.

That makes it your fault an not hers in her mind. My WW keeps telling me to go out with other women.

What do I do about that? She's been resolved to divorce me for a while...

She has been acting like I made her cheat.

She also claims that she feels trapped in our marriage...

I want her to stay but just can't seem to figure out how. Everyone tells me that this Exposure thing will just make it worse... I'm scared to try it.

If she wanted a D that bad, she would have filed already.

Actions speak louder than words.

Yeah? She's using real or imagine failings to justify her affair. This is how it works in these cases.

You just don't pay attention to it because you know better.

Charlotte

Who is everyone?

More from the WS Handbook.

Who the hell is EVERYONE? HER?

Exposure is like turning over a rock and letting the sunshine kill the mold growing beneath it--you shine this light into their affair to hasten its demise.

What the hell do you have to lose? YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST HER!!

If you want a snowball's chance in hell at changing that then you need to take action and stop whining about it!!!

So should I tell the ENTIRE family? Close, relatives, extended?

And go on facebook and post to all of them as well?

People I've told so far about this idea is everyone.

Seems...counter productive. Although I am warming ot it.

She is gone and not coming back unless the A is over. Period.

What does that mean? End the A as soon as possible. Nothing else matters. If exposure makes her not come back, then she wouldnt come back anyways. If everybody knows about the A, it makes her catch flak for it and makes it harder for her to keep it up.

Yes, you are right. It does seem counter-intuitive. That confused me at first as well. But it WORKS. And you will feel a LOT better and stronger when you get off your [censored] and take ACTION!!!

Charlotte

I'm trying here ok mate?

I'm here. I'm trying to accept this idea.


What should this exposure letter look like? I'm full of anxiety and can barely think straight and have done so many stupid things so far from it that I'm scared of doing yet another.

What should the delivery method be?

How DEEP should I go? Cause Facebook literally exposes the entire family extended and all.

Dont do this in a letter, do it in person or on the phone.

There are some here who have exposed via facebook & myspace, etc.

If I were you I would use that for "secondary" exposure...for the main people you want to do it in person or on the phone. But for cousins, etc., you can use facebook, etc. JMO.

Charlotte

DUDE!!!! Affairs thrieve in secrecy. Expose to EVERYONE! I will make their relationship VERY uncomfortable.

You said that she apparently told her sister. I can assure you, she doesn't know the whole story. The majority of people have a moral compass and will realize that this relationship is wrong and won't be very excepting of it.

What about this OM. Does he have a wife or a girlfriend. I'm sure he has parents. I'm pretty sure his mother wouldn't approve.

If they work for the same company or (I believe, school system) They definately wouldn't approve for fear of a lawsuit.

This next statement is going to sound mean but YOU HAVE TO STOP BEING A DOORMAT! Stand up for yourself! Stand up for your marriage!

I'll need to steal her phone to get the super list of numbers.

I had to work my [censored] off on google maps traveling down certain roads floor level to find the restaurant the OM owns. So I am taking this seriously at the same time I'm skeptical. So just keep the constructive aid coming and I'll be capable enough to carry out this act.

I should name the OM to everyone too right?

Monty.....ok bro...imagine if you will (that sounds so twilight zone....but thats been your life lately right?) little wifey is sneaking around tip toeing planning to do evil....planning to suck the life from your marriage. WW is a VAMPIRE.

Ok you got that part...ok...next part...

Now you are the GREAT VAN HELSING....what is the one thing that destroys the evil that is vampires....LIGHT....light is the representative of all that is good.....thats why vampires hate it so and choose to sneak and live in the dark. They are souls damned and hiding away from the rest of the world. That is why they sleep during the day while mortals are awake.

YOU are the bringer of light back to your world (MARRIAGE)....by allowing her family to see the light (exposure...no pun intended) you bring whats good and right to thier lives.....most times they will also allow there light to hit the vampire quickening it's demise.

Your wife is dating a college kid with no attainable future at the moment. IF you value your marriage...you will expose it and allow those who love and care for your wife....to sort of add to the intervention...she is an addict right now (most vampires are...you know needing blood to survive thing).

If she values what they will think so much....it is sure to have an affect on her and on the life of the affair....I mean what do you have to loose....you don't fight you loose her....you do fight you still have the possibility of getting your wife back.

The vets here all have alot of collected experience. I highly suggest you listen to them.....if we could all write a script about what WS's would say next...trust me hun....her next line would read straight from it....everything she has said is like a broken record for all WS'S we have all heard and read the same things on other peoples threads numerous times....trust me yours is not that unique.

stay strong...gather your evidence...and present it to her family....you may have allies there yet willing to help you fight...you never know until you try.

THERE YA GO! And remember. THIS ISN'T YOUR FAULT! You can except 50% of the problems in your marriage. She is 100% at fault for the affair. You had nothing to do with that! Be strong!

Yes. Tell everyone who knows her and can positively influence her to stop her immoral and wayward behavior. Don't tell her first. Don't even hint. Just DO IT.

If you think that people here don't know what their talking about. Check this out. When you start exposing to everyone, your wife will be EXTREMELY angry. Then (here's what she'll probably say, "At one time I was considering working things out with you, but now you've blown it!" It's a typical response from the WS script.

Not only name him, but directly call his wife (if married), his children, his parents, his wife's parents, his workplace, his co-workers, his boss, etc. Anything to shine the light on the A and make it supremely uncomfortable for him to continue.

Fight.

The two people who do know that pissed her off already for having been told are going to see me this weekend. Tomorrow in fact. I think I'll gather my evidence sit down with them and go through it so that anyone who doesn't believe can be shown easily what this is.

Keep the advice coming.

AND THANK YOU FOR THE SUPER RESPONSE TO ME. I AM IN A PANIC AND NEED INSTANT ACTION.

My WW likes to also say I am showing her no respect and I am pushing her farther away from me.

She didnt lose her love for you and get into an A, she got into an A and lost her love for you.

She said that when I told the two other family.

GOOD! DAMMIT!!

And we will! You can count on that! We don't want to see you run into the ground and all twisted into a pretzel by your WS!!

Charlotte

Now. After the exposure. How do I work plan A? How do I show her that I really love her? We are separated right now and soon getting different places to stay apartment wise.

I mean... How do I act towards her? I already know about the "So, you want a potato chip?" Thing, but what do I do in steps.

Just be nice, do things for her. Meet EN's but avoid any and all LB's.

Well, there you go! Listen to the vets when they chime in here. They'll be able to predict what she going to say or do with scary accurracy! Take care of yourself first and foremost!

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


Exposure is your strongest weapon against the A. Use it, and use it wisely. Do not tell her that you are going to do it, just do it. Expect more anger. Your M can survive her anger, but it cannot survive if she remains a WS.

Start a good plan A. If you can call the Harleys for advice. Read Surviving an Affair. You will learn the dynamics of affairs. They are all pretty much the same. The WS use the same script.

Your WS will try to rewrite history and put you in a bad light. She is trying to justify her actions to herself. She is probably addicted to the feelings of the A, not the OM. He could be anyone.

She has weaknesses that she did not protect. It is a slippery slope.

Keep coming here. Read, read, read.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And now,

I'm going to bed. I'll check up on you tomorrow, Pod'nah.

Charlotte

Thanks Charlotte, good night for you. I'm still going to be up patrolling and questioning.

Hell, as I've asked, if anyone has a letter head example of what I probably should create as a script to tell people in person and in letter form, that would help my progress immensely. I'm already building a names list and such.

It all depends on who you are telling. If it's her parents, tell them how much you love her and want to try to make the M work but that she is having an A. To her family it will probably help you look better too as she is probably making them think you are a monster.

How much detail about the affair do I provide? Do I tell that it was both physical and emotional?

Should I ask her one last time to end the affair? But no ultimatum.

Also, after exposure, how do you get the to let you work on plan A? What if they are distant, what do you do to get them to let you show them your best side?

One other thing I'm wondering. Should I schmooze up to her big time in PLan A style before launching exposure? To try and show a better side? As right now she really just doesn't like me.

moncouer

Starting another post is not going to help you. Best to keep your story in one place.

WW's all say that they would of stayed until you exposed. They all get angry at exposure. It shows everyone that they are a cheatin hoe.

Exposure checklist

WW's parents, her siblings, being she is young her g parents, WW anunts and uncles, her close friends, if they met at work then expose there, OMW, OM parents, OM g parents.

Mon,

You should understand that while we don't know your wife, we know your WW. We've seen her here a lot. She comes in all shapes and sizes and races, but her behavior is nearly identical in every single case.

Sometimes the WW wakes up right away and starts to work things out with her H.

Other times she takes a while to do it.

And other times she's lost already and will not come back at all.

The actions in dealing with her are the same regardless of the outcome that will happen.

And she ALWAYS says the same stuff:

"I love you but I'm not in love with you."
"I don't know you."
"I feel trapped."
"Don't you want me to be happy?"
"OM is the love of my life. He's my soulmate."

Upon exposure:

"You ruined his life!"
"You're ruining my life!"
"I hate you!"
"You just ruined any chance we had at saving this. I was going to give you a chance before but you just destroyed that!"
"You're just doing this to be vindictive!"
"You violated my privacy!" (More on this later)

And it goes on and on. We've seen your WW here many, many times and the behavior is ALWAYS the same.

Now there are two types of betrayed husbands. There's those that live in fear of their wives and those that don't and take action and do something. The ones that succeed are the latter. The ones that don't are the former.

Fear and hope and love will get you nowhere.

Crying and whining will get you nowhere.

One big thing to do is to start acting like she's already lost. Almost like this poor lost child that you feel warmth towards, but who will be gone soon.

So you start to carry on with your life. Plan A isn't Plan Whine or Plan Doormat.

It's treating her well, like you would a house guest, but NOT allowing yourself to be treated badly or get beaten up by her on an emotional level. It means calmly looking at her when she rants and raves and acting normal in the face of madness.

When she rants and raves, you simply respond with "I'm doing everything I can to save our marriage."

That's it. No more explanation needed.

Here's the 180, which is a great guide on what to do. These aren't hard and fast rules, but are a great guide to help those that are lost on how to behave.

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue?
No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back.

Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person.

This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

One more thought:

You're young. That youth is your enemy right now. You haven't had the life experience to understand and know that not only is your wife's behavior beyond intollerable, she is, in fact, replaceable in every respect.

You also don't have the life experience to know that your view of her is clouded by your emotions for her. You love her and think she's all that while you have friend and family that think, "Boy, Mon could do so much better."

I've been throught the ringer a bit and I'm not much older than you (10 years). BUT.....I've learned a ton in those ten years.

What you're doing right now is no way to live.

You're young and are wasting your youth on a woman that simply isn't worth it.

You have no children with her. It's really about the only incentive she would have had to try to work something out with you, if it was going to happen at all.

What incentive does she have to return to you?

She doesn't love you. That's pretty clear.

She has no children with you.

She has no respect for you or your feelings. She doesn't respect her vows, her God, or the institution of marriage.

You think she's worth saving. Give yourself a few years away from her and you'll think, "My God, what did I ever see in her?"

Rightn now you should be talking to a lawyer and preparing to crucify her in court and take EVERYTHING.

Then, once that is done, you can walk away still in your twenties and with tons of great women out in the world.

Believe me, they're out there and they're awesome.

BUT...You want to try to save things. That's fine. We'll help you.

But understand that you're better than this and deserve to be treated better than this and she is disposable.

NO ONE is worth living this way. The second you accept this fact, the better you will do with either her or some future woman.

I just re-read your first post.

The only thing you have ever done which shows you have balls and brains that function somewhere inside all that fear you live with was the fact that you separated your finances.

Now what should you do?

Isolate her financially. She wants to cheat, then she can get her cheating a$$ a job, but you will not support her affair.

That means you cancel all joint credit cards, bank accounts, and cell phones.

You cutoff her cell phone if you pay for it.

Take the car back if it's in your name.

Believe me, it's counterintuitive, but this is stuff you should be doing because it is how she deserves to be treated right now as your wife.

She doesn't deserve to be treated like a wife you love because she's not acting like the wife you love.

Also, you should expose to OM's family and parents.

What state does he live in? You should be filing an Alienation of Affection lawsuit where you sue him for having an affair with your wife.

Start making his life miserable, to include calling him and telling him to stay the hell away from her.

Exposure extends to him and his work and his family and friends.

Let them put pressure on him to leave a married woman alone.

And don't be surprised if he has other girlfriends. Contact her if he does.

Exposure lets things out in the open to put an end to the affair.

And you must demand no contact for life from your WW.

Final warning for you to think about:

Your WW may already be lost forever. This may never be salvageable.

But I can guarantee you that you will regret not taking action if and when you heal from all of this.

Exposure works. Acting like a man works. Releasing your fear of her works.

What you're doind and have done does not.

Excellent help.

Now, what should the message be that I give to family? Rough draft. Should I mention the physical affair as well as mental affair? What details could be added?

Dear loved one,

I want to implore you for strength and prayers for both "wifes name" and mines marriage. I care and love for her. I humbly inform you so that you may pray for us and offer any guidance in wisdom that you may wish to offer.

I do not say this to hurt nor harm. “Wife’s name” my wife and mine's marriage has been affected by an affair. There is another man "named" who has been allowed into our lives in ways that should only be present in the holy matrimony and sanctity of marriage.

Plainly, “wife’s name” has allowed an emotional and physical involvement with another man to occur in our lives which has brought great pain on our marriage. She has been unable to end this affair on her own and at mine and our counselor’s direction.

Please keep your prayers with us in this time as we work to strengthen our marriage and work on the love that we have for one another,

Sincerely,

"Me"

Who do you need to still expose on the check list?

And as Baron said time to cut her off financially.

I have no means to cut her off financially. She is employed. And that would seem vindictive I believe.

No, it is not vindictive, it is letting her finance her affair HERSELF.

Why should YOU have to pay for her affair?!

You want to know what happens when you let your WW run all over you? Someone get pom in here!!

This is what you don't get. She's an enemy right now. It is not vindictive to protect your finances.

She wants to act single, then by all means, let her support herself.

Do you not understand? She wants to act single. So treat her that way.

Ex husbands don't voluntarily support their ex wives.

You have no obligation to her if she acts that way.

It blows my mind how betrayed husbands have a woman that f***s another man and is concerned about 1. ticking her off and 2. appearing vindictive.

No, isolating her financially is not vindictive. It's smart.

But don't listen to a man who was literally robbed by his wife for doing EXCATLY what you're doing.

YOU are different and special from all the hundreds of other men who come here with the exact same story.

So go ahead and keep trusting her with your finances and keep funding her affair if that's the approach you think that works.

In my three years here, I've never seen it happen.

And yes, you're like dozens and dozens of other men who think the same way and then get burned.

What I say may sound harsh. But I'm trying to wake you up. Your finances are in peril.

Pi$$sing her off should be the least of your worries. Securing your finances and rights as a father should be number one.

Were you asking about if I could think of any others or if anyone else had any more ideas?


Exposure checklist

WW's parents - One already knows, he seemed to be sheltering the mother from the truth.
Her siblings - One supposedly knows, but the depth of the truth is uncertain.
g parents - She loves her grandmother, hates her grandfather.
WW anunts and uncles - Two already know, soon this will include them all.
close friends - Will have to get her phone and prepair a call list.
OMW - Unknown if other woman
OM parents - have mothers phone now
OM g parents - Will ask OM mother to spread the same letter.

IS THERE A WAY TO DOWNLOAD A PHONES LIST OF NUMBERS QUICKLY?

baron_richtofen,

Well I have no means to financially cut her off. Everything car, phone and such are in her name.

Skeptical about what? That I don't have means to cut her off? Or just vindictive?

I need advice on the exact wording of the message now. Delivery seems important if I want people to understand that it's not a vindictive/hateful motion.

YOU !




Then, this is your answer.

But why did you write.....




Posters on pro adultery boards call the betrayed spouses "vindictive" when they try to protect their assets.

Some of these replies seem CUT and PASTE. Makes them hard to...translate into my issues. ^_^ But hey, your helping so woot!


I've said We are almost immediately and now living apart in separate domains. How do I provide plan A after exposure if we are not living together?

Pepperband,

Ah I see your point.

When a newbie "BS" posts (word for word) right out of the pro adultery script ... I become

Factual business-like language.

Try writing it that way.

Let's see what you come up with.

To whom it may concern,

Recent events have brought to light that "my wife" committed adultery in our marriage with another man "named" and that this adultery has impacted our marriages stability and health. It has been an arduous time for the both of us where great pain has been caused by the presence of the adultery in our lives.

Have been implored by our councilor and myself to cease being an adulterer yet she has not given way.

I inform you so that this fact may be brought to your loving attentions and that you may take action as you deem appropriate in aiding or praying for our strength and successful recovery of our familial bonds in marriage.



Arbitrary closing,

-Me

affected by infidelity?

Don't you mean SHE COMMITTED ADULTERY?

Infidelity is not the common cold.

To whom it may concern,

Recent events have brought to light that "my wife" has betrayed our marriage's trust by committing adultery with another man "named" and that this adultery has impacted our marriages stability and health dramatically. It has been an arduous time for the both of us where unnecessary suffering and great upheaval has been caused by the presence of this adultery in our lives.

Having been implored by our councilor and myself for her to cease, "my wife" has yet to end her adulterous affair. "My wife" has strongly resisted in not proceeding with total discontinued contact with the other man "name."

I inform you so that this fact may be brought to your loving attentions and that you may take action as you deem appropriate in aiding or praying for our strength and the successful recovery of our familial bonds in marriage.

Many may feel that this is an unusual step in the healing process, but I assure you that there is no malice nor vindictive effort in it's delivery and that it is directed by the guidance of a marriage counseling body. Adultery thrives in secrecy and as long as it may remains hidden there is no stopping it. So as many of you were there to celebrate our coming together on our wedding day I request of you now to share in this time of recovery with us.

I have nothing but love, respect, and care for my wife. If you feel a need to discuss this with me or validate my claims, I am available in every way.

With the greatest respect,

-The Husband

That seems good to me?

Personally, I wouldn't send a letter to family and friends...I would call them up and say:

WW is committing adultery with OM. I love WW very much and want to save our marriage. Anything you could do to help me towards that goal would be greatly appreciated. Do you have any advice for me? (People typically like being asked for advice)

I understand that you are distraught, Mancouer, but I really think you are making this more complicated than it has to be...Simple phone calls stating the facts and asking for help and advice will suffice...

Hint: you WANT people to confront your wife about her behavior...you are not bestowing a secret upon them that you want them to keep...make that known: ie: Could you please talk to WW and try and help her see the folly of her current choices?

Mrs. W

The letter is for secondary family.

I'm going to call directly to close family.

Yea, the letter is getting to verbose I think.

Okay...Personally I would make the letter more concise...

When will you be making these phone calls?

Mrs. W

It's just I know delivery is so important. I'm over focusing on it maybe.

Once I have all the numbers I need.

Yes, I concur...

WW is committing adultery with OM. I love WW and want very much to save our marriage. Anything you can do to help towards that goal would be greatly appreciated.

Straight to the point is best, imo...

Mancouer, my affair ended the very day that my mom called OM and let him have it...She and Mr. W conspired together on what was to be said...(My mom knew OM since our childhoods - it worked best that she make the call)...My point is, don't underestimate the pressure on OM's side of the fence...Those exposure targets are VERY POWERFUL indeed...

Mrs. W

This isn't stand-up comedy...Delivery counts less than the cold hard facts here...To the point...No hemming and hawing...

What more needs to be said?

1. WW is committing adultery with OM.

2. I love WW very much and want to save our marriage.

3. Anything you can do to help us save our marriage would be greatly appreciated.

No need to go around your elbow to get to your heiney...KWIM?

Mrs. W

To whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention that "my wife" has betrayed our marriage's trust by committing adultery with another man "named" and that this adultery has impacted our marriages stability and health dramatically.

Having been implored by our councilor and myself for her to cease the adultery, "my wife" has yet to end her affair. "My wife" has strongly resisted in not proceeding with total discontinued contact with the other man "name."

I inform you so that this fact may be brought to your loving attentions and that you may take action to show my wife the folly in her way and to pray for our strength and the successful recovery of our familial bonds in marriage.

I have nothing but love, respect, and care for my wife. I want our marriage to continue and for us to be loving in it. And I am prepared to put all my effort into this marriages recovery.

With the greatest respect,

-The Husband

Moncouer...

May I make a suggestion? How about you do the immediate family and OM's family FIRST and see if that does the trick? When you say "secondary family", are you meaning people like Aunt Sally and Uncle Fred who WW only sees once a year at Christmas? I'm not saying that they wouldn't make good exposure targets in the second round of exposure, but why not see if the main targets get this taken care of first?

Call OM's mama & daddy TODAY...I think sitting here spinning your wheels on endless letters that are TOO LONG is a waste of your time...

What do you think?

Mrs. W

Hehe, she sent me a Facebook flair (like a pin-button) with "Peace, Love, Wine" on it.

I have no idea what that was suppose to mean.

That bolsters me now. To know that this might actually work if she is still "poking" to see if I'm receptive to her since I accepted the flair piece.

Maybe that is what I'll do. I'll tell the immediate family. And not tell her that I will expand the pressure if she does not relent.

Agree with MrsW, just pick up the phone and start talking. There is no need to overcomplicate this and get bogged down in analysis paralysis.

I think I'm going to do her the favor and wait until after her spring break. Since it is suppose to be a time of fun for her.

I know...I know. I'm weak but there is so much stress for her I'm not sure if ruining her first trip to New York (w/out me to boot) is what I should do.

Or then again...it'll really put the weight on her because she'll be out of town and unable to physically confront me.

Wanting to wait... That's me delaying isn't it?

Of course you don't tell her your battleplans! Forewarned is forearmed!

There is no "maybe" to this Mancouer...You either WILL or you WON'T...Which is it? You need to get started TODAY...The courage is in the doing...You can't wait around for some magical feeling to overtake you...You must ACT...

Mrs. W

YES!

Waiting til after Spring Break, so she can have "fun" all while your marriage is being DESTROYED???

Knock it off, man-up and get this done, Mancouer...double time...

Mrs. W

Oh, we haven't addressed one thing.

Do I just let her make her decisions based on what you've told me?

I don't ask her to leave the other man, I simply inform family, sit, and wait, while improving myself?

Good grief Moncouer!

My guess is that OM is going to be in New York too...

[sarcasm]Maybe you should just offer to buy them theatre tickets and pay for a nice dinner out afterwards...[/sarcasm]

OR, you could man-up and expose now and possibly prevent that!

Not to mention, who cares if she physically confronts you?????? Exposure is supposed to tick her off...It's not a tea party!

C'mon...MAN-UP...Git 'er done!!!

Mrs. W

I'm not sure I understand your question, but you certainly do NOT inform her that you are going to expose...

But, yes...that's right, expose while simultaneously becoming the best husband you can be...

Mrs. W

Another thought. I tell the immediate family. What signs am I looking for that I shouldn't soon go and expand the exposure?

Again, being the best husband I can be is hard when we are "separated". I'm still not sure how I'm going to pull that off.

The question clarified: I was asking, do I just let her react and not say anything about leaving the other man? Just let her decide what to do?

Righto. Expose the affair, mancouer. The sooner the better.

Yes! Don't delay! Do it TODAY!

Did you get ANY sleep?

Charlotte

Moncouer,

One day at a time...Let's get the first round of exposure done and see what happens...Come back here and report...Battle plans will expand then, okay?

Plan A is demonstrating a WILLINGNESS to meet the needs of the WS should they return to the marriage - make yourself inviting and appealing...Even if you were living with her she wouldn't be receptive to you meeting her needs right now...Plan A is about making yourself into a husband that any woman would be proud to be married to, got it? Be confident, go out and live...Buy new clothes, new cologne, get a tan, start working out...

Mrs. W

As I've said two family members know...an Aunt and uncle.

Is that good enough for now in terms of exposure?

As a start? This was this week before I started talking to you guys about this in depth.

The aunt and uncle are advising that it's a bad idea to do this. And I respect them a great deal. 31 years married.

THey keep telling me to wait the course of this out...and obviously that's what I've been doing and it's not working.


I'm going over to their house to talk to them in an hour and i'll make my decision after that. If they can't provide me ANY method that sounds better than this I'll go ahead with exposure.

Because this all makes sense. She is getting to eat her cake and have it too with me standing on the side while she has her long distance affair.

What is their reasoning on this?

That it will make your WS angry?

That it will cause a rift between WS and other family members?

Have they ever experienced infidelity?

I'm sure it sounds counter-intuitive to them because it seems that way.

Are they on your side of the family?

Charlotte

EXACTLY!!

If you are very close to them, why don't you direct them here and let them read the articles on this site? Let them watch the Infidelity video that's on the home page.

Charlotte

Yea, I'm going to show them this.

Expose today. Their only reasoning would be that it would piss her off. So what. Never care about pissing off an enemy of your M. Right now the biggest enemy is your W.

"WW's parents - One already knows, he seemed to be sheltering the mother from the truth."

You then tell the mom directly.

"Her siblings - One supposedly knows, but the depth of the truth is uncertain."

Why don't they all know everything?

"g parents - She loves her grandmother, hates her grandfather."

And the gas is $2 a gallon, who cares who she hates, loves, did you tell them? Your unbelieveable.

"WW anunts and uncles - Two already know, soon this will include them all."

Good.

"close friends - Will have to get her phone and prepair a call list."

Good.

"OMW - Unknown if other woman"

Not other woman, OM's wife.

"OM parents - have mothers phone now"

So you want a medal, use it.

"OM g parents - Will ask OM mother to spread the same letter."

Pointless.

Delay exposing.

Great idea giving the OM another week to bang your WW.

The longer you delay, the more he deposits in her LB$$ and vice versa

Moncouer...

PLEASE call OM's parents...grandparents...OM himself...Blow this thing up on his side of the fence...Make your WW far too much trouble for him...Let him know that you are fighting for your marriage and will NOT back down...Ask his parents and grandparents to keep their son/grandson away from your wife...Let them know that their son/grandson is an interloper in your marriage!!!

PLEASE DO THIS TODAY!!!

You will feel GREAT relief when you start taking ACTION...

And YES, both of her parents should also know...

I'm sure you have great respect for Aunt and Uncle, but the advice they are giving you is NOT sound for your situation...Please listen to the voices of experience here...

Mrs. W

Moncouer...

Think about this:

If you let his parents and grandparents know, then he can't introduce your wife to them as his girlfriend...Do you see that? He won't even be able to say that you guys are in the process of divorce, and that you are okay with what they are doing...You ruin any plans of them normalizing their "relationship" to his family and instead reveal it to be what it really is...A SLEAZY AFFAIR: ADULTERY...

Moncouer, TRUTH is the solution to adultery...Exposure is doing nothing but exposing the TRUTH...It is WRONG to commit adultery, it is NOT wrong to expose adultery...

Mrs. W

Finally for now, in case you haven't noticed my signature yet, I am a FWW myself...I am telling you from THAT side of the fence, how to ruin this affair...In essence, I am giving you "insider information"...Please use it...

Mrs. W

Gee, this has really been a snap getting all this info to you Moncouer.

And rest assured your WW's funfilled trip to New York includes meeting her OM there. You can mortgage the house on it.

C'mon Mancouer, for every point blank suggestion, you come back with 15 or more questions.

How about more action and less thought. People here are not trying to steer you wrong. we've been there, done that. We've all walked this road in front of you, KWIM?

All Blessings,
Jerry

Moncouer...

You wanted information from Dr. Harley regarding exposure...From the private section of this forum (for those that have attended a Marriage Builders Weekend Seminar), here is some of what he has to say...



link

Mrs. W

Listen to Baron - he's 100% right! Each time I too felt "cannot be" advice given to me here turned out to be perfect!

Your WW will take you for a ride of your life. I know. I've been on this ride since over 3 months now!

Moncouer,

I hate to tell you this, but it's the reality:

You've lost your wife. She's gone. You have no children or "family" for her to want to come back.

You appear to be in a very very small number of BHes that I've seen on these forums that get drug along by their cheating wives for YEARS. The BH hangs on and "hopes" and is Mr. Nice Guy, afriad to move to Plan B or do anything that upsets WW, such as Plan B and actually filing for divorce while WW goes on to OM#2, 3, and 4.

The BEST way to act right now is as if she's lost forever with one exception: Make sure you expose to the universe that the marriage is ending because she's cheating.

Pis$ing her off should be the least of your worries right now. Your wife is dead and has been replaced by an alien that looks like her and simply wants to hurt you.

Well?

He was up all night. Probably will be on later tonight or in the morning.


Maybe he is just busy exposing.

HOLY CHRISTMAS!!!! WAIT TILL SPRING BREAK! So, you can spoil her fun. Dude, don't you think she's had enough fun? It's time to knock her back into reality! EXPOSE!! You've made excuse after excuse. It's apparent you don't like confrontation. What have you got to lose. You need to make that relationship as uncomfortable as possible. There's a very go chance that this guy will bolt thinking " This just isn't worth the aggrevation." And he'll through your wife under the bus. IT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN IF YOU JUST SIT BY AND WATCH!

See...they are making me feel that if I tell everyone it'll only leave her permanently shamed in the family...that everyone will always look at her as the adulterer.

They are telling me that since she's willing to talk to a very good counselor to wait.

I've already told a couple people and she knows.

I'm skeptical because some of you who say do it have only 60 something posts and just me talking about this I've come close to that as well.

Your talking about my life here and badgering me in some cases.

I get that this is to help but I've done enough dumb things due to irrational pressures on my own.

I JUST found this concept. So...with a little respect. Allow me to gestate and do something that I THOUGHT about longer than a day or so.

So far my worst mistakes have all happened from "reacting." Let me have a moment and think about "acting".

They think I want to do this out of vengeance, they understand she is in a fantasy world but don't believe that this is the right course.

Moncouer,
If you have found a better peer group than MB, as in "they", then by all means, follow the impetus of "they" and good luck to you in your future.

I'm quite sure "they" have not been a clinical phycologist for over 35 years dealing with addictions and their coresponding predictable behavior. But if you wise family and friends know better, with zero experience, Good Luck to you my friend.

This will most certainaly be the last time I waste my energy on one who know better.


All Blessings,
Jerry

This is what I thought they'd say.


Yeah, she might be willing to go to a counselor, but why? If she's already dead-set on divorce her only goal may be to "let you down easy." And appease her own guilt.


Good. If she is so much in love, what is there to be ashamed of?


Hey!! I resent that!! I have WAAAAAAY more than 60 posts!!

But seriously, no one wants to see you go through what a lot of us went through. I suffered for months carrying their ugly little secret around. And WHY? It was THEIR secret, not mine!! I was at the VERY end of my tether when I finally exposed. No one here wants to see you go through that same thing because you are trying to reach out to someone who is NOT HEARING you because they are so focused on themselves and their lover.


You're right. Please see paragraph above, ditto that here. I am sorry if you feel badgered. We are worried about you, that is all.


Okay, stick around and read and get some more advice. I know we are a bunch of faceless strangers to you but we really do care. That's why everyone gets so wild-eyed when they see someone being taken advantage of.



Vengeance has nothing to do with it. And I'm sure they are questioning why a bunch of strangers want to help, too. There are people out there that really care about others. I felt all alone, family or not. When I came here it really turned my life around for the better. And thanks a million to everyone here who helped with that!!!

Charlotte

Are you doing this right now too? And your wife is back home? Affair done?

Where is the acronyms page? I can't find it so my family that are involved can understand what you guys are saying sometimes.

Moncouer - don't believe the folks here, then. But do go to the Coaching Center page and make an appt with the Harley's for counseling and hear it from the horse's mouth. Also, please go to your nearest bookstore or Amazon and pick up a copy of Surviving An Affair.

Good luck.

I see, and it would be your exposing the truth about her actions that would cause this, not her actual actions, huh? But I can speak from the "Scarlett Letter" side of the fence, and I can tell you that I don't wear one around people that know me that know about my affair...Wanna know why? Because I am a RECOVERED Former WW...My actions and my words match with not being a WW anymore and those people that know respect me very much for changing...Moncouer, we are advising you on how to give your wife an impetus for change...


I could agree to this ONLY IF the counselor was Steve Harley...I have seen him advise to wait on exposure until after HE had spoken with the wayward himself...However, he will advise you to expose if he sees that your WW is simply trying to play you...I would NOT advise you to do this with any other counselor though...Most counselors know NOTHING about the dynamics of infidelity...Did you know for instance that marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate in saving marriages? Pretty scary stat, eh?

Are you willing to give Steve Harley a call Moncouer?


Have those people that you've exposed to spoken to your WW about her affair?


Well, I've got a few more posts than that under my belt and a recovered marriage to boot...

Did you read Dr. Harley's words that I posted to you Moncouer? He surely has more than a few measely posts to his name on the subject of infidelity...


I apologize if you feel badgered...People here only want to help you...We are hoping that you will learn from our experiences...


The problem is though that time is not on your side here...I see a lot of conflict avoidance and fear, Moncouer...Neither of those things will help your circumstances...

Question: What would "they" have against exposing on OM's side of the fence?

Mrs. W

(Much of the below is my argument to my family who I have told about this.)

I am not desperate. I am not disillusion. I'm rational and wise. I am not angry. I am not crying. I am not hateful.

I am concerned for her. I am loving. I am thinking of her. I've only sworn at her ever in my life under one condition, each time she refused to stop the affair.


I do know the other man's mother would castrate him for his current actions. The other mans mother had apparently said often that he'd try and hit on my wife and they'd cheat. Seriously. And look where I am for not listening to HIS mother?

I think in such a case, they might be more on board with THAT.

Although my wife would feel I'm unjustly attacking the other man only.

Which would mean my wife's family would have to say they were on board...

Which would mean her family would have to express they know and are supporting me. Which means they would have to support the method of exposure.

What is frustrating is my wayward wife's father won't support this. I know he won't because it means that his wife would have to learn of my wife's actions. So...because of that I am forced to watch my wife walk away from me, because I can't disrespect him. It would be like telling my own parents that I don't care about their opinion's...or hurting them on purpose. ...BUT some hard and painful pills need swallowing! One child's affair is nothing to the death and destruction in the world. My father-in-law can't shield his wife from that and it's way worse than her daughter's adultery.

I have to stand here...and not act because if I go forward his wife will eventually learn because for this to work it'll have to start with family, extended, and close friends. To save my marriage from my wife's affair I'll have to piss off my father in law if I were to do this.


Exposure is exactly what I feel needs to happen. This is an affair...she created this. I did not. I did not MAKE her sleep with another man. There are consequences and one of them is unavoidably....that she will have to accept shame. And then be humbled for it. As it stands, she will not be humbled when the crime is not exposed.

For some reason everyone thinks that her actions will always mark her... They won't. I'll make sure of it. They can't mark her because I love her and if the person who does the exposing wants to love the betrayer how can the family choose but to not love her still? It's all about supporting an addict away from their addiction.

Just because she is an adult "grown up" doesn't mean she should be absolved of feeling shame or being hurt for her chosen actions.

I am not attacking her or seeking revenge. It is purely as you say shining light on a fungus and if this is so bad that it shouldn't be "revealed" for the permanent damage she is doing, what is my "family" expect of me to do when she is the one who is slowly creating a fantasy that I'm the wrong doer. And in this fantasy walking away.

I love her. I'm still loving her. I'm doing everything in my power to restore my marriage and restore her to reality. If I wanted to hurt her there are vile things that come to mind. We are adults who know things about one another that if I were to tell, would hurt her. I don't because I love her.[b] I WOULDN'T ever do anything that was meant to hurt her...I mean to heal.

This is all about fixing...a surgeon must cut open a patient before they can remove the ailment. This is exactly the same case.



[/b]

Monc...

If you expose the affair and end up recovering your marriage, your wife will view you as a HERO for saving her from herself...for saving your marriage...Count on it...Sure, she will be mad at first, but as you've been told, your marriage CAN survive your wife's anger, it CANNOT survive her ongoing affair...

Call the OM's mother and expose...

Mrs. W

Are you willing to give Steve Harley a call Moncouer?

How do I go about this? The cost is like...300 bucks.

And how do I get her to talk to him? Would I be there or just her?

Because each session would be expensive.

Sessions are $195 each...They do have discounted packages...I believe that is 5 sessions at a cost of $175 each...I KNOW it sounds expensive, but it is much cheaper than divorce AND you are getting THE experts on the topic...The Harleys are far different from typical marriage counselors and can get more done in ONE session than your average counselor could do in 5...and that would be if you had a GOOD counselor...After calling Steve, you will have a PLAN...That is what you desperately need Monc...A plan tailor made for YOU...

Usually a great way to get your wife to participate is to tell her that this counselor needs her input in order to help you...Then Steve will typically split up the call...he will talk to you for half of it and your wife for the other half...a brilliant approach...

Here is the link to the coaching center~~~> MB Coaching Center All the info about how to set it up is there...

Mrs. W

Can these sessions be billed to health insurance?

I love the website so I have a hard time not agreeing. I'm willing to put five sessions in and see where we go.

Now...would I be exposing first or session's then expose? How does that work?

Basically with sessions, what is the order of business?

Monc,

I honestly can't help you on the health insurance question...I simply do not know the answer to that...If I were you I'd call the MB offices first thing in the morning and ask them...I'm gonna take a guess and say that they will happily provide you with a receipt that you can then submit to your insurance company...

Because of your reticience regarding exposure, IF you will call and make your appointment first thing in the morning, then I'd say you can wait and talk to Steve...Let him advise you on that...As I told you earlier, he will be able to tailor a plan especially for you based upon your situation...Because he is the professional he can tweak the MB advice for you and your situation - Something that no one here posting to you is qualified to do...

Mrs. W

I'm assuming that my 60 posts are the ones you are referring to.

I've been on this board for 3 years.

I've posted over 2000 times about myself or to others.

I'm here under a different name because my exww has tried to use my posts against me.

So I may sound harsh, but it's because 2x4s are intended to wake you up since you have nothing but fear for this cheating adulterous woman that has zero respect for you because you allow her to disrespect you in a horrible way.

Seriously, how could you possibly have agreed to let her kiss another man is beyond me.

But that's not relevant anymore. It happened.

Now exposure must happen and it appears you're on the path to do that, but it MUST happen.

And your WW will be ticked. She will say all the things we predicted.

And again:

Your wife is gone. There's nothing to entice her to come back since you have no children with her or family to restore.

Act with this reality in mind and you will move forward fairly quickly. Might even entice her to return when she sees that you're moving on with your life.

So I should schedule an appointment with my wife involved to see from there?

2x4's?

Not meeting there I'm pretty damn sure. It's here Alumni college event.

I'm certain of that due to evidence.

Monc...

If I were you, I'd let my first appointment with Steve be for just you...That will help you get all your ducks in a row and he will give you line by line what to say to your wife to get her engaged in counseling with him...

Mrs. W

Submitted for an appointment.

I still am going to need her fathers acceptance. It took me everything just to tell him what his daughter is doing to me. Asking him to let me follow through with exposure and support me in it is tough.

I mistakenly told him that he wouldn't have to do anything with the exposure...but I feel bad now because I lied without knowing it. For it to work people need to be critical of my Wayward wife's actions here.

If I don't get his acceptance this will be hard because I will need him to tell her she is wrong when she "attacks" me for exposing her.

From the beginning I've felt that my wife was addicted...based on her words and actions and justification. I found "love addiction" and then thought about exposing her via family like an intervention. Friends around me were skeptical...socially we don't accept that kind of action in "romantic" involvements of people.

So...why is it looked down on when one party is asking for it? I'm telling my family I need them to join me in an intervention and they balk and feel that it's not the right course.

If she was on heroin they'd do it in a heartbeat, but since she's addicted to an "emotional" attachment that is unhealthy for OUR marriage they feel that they shouldn't get involved.


It takes a village to raise a child... That encompasses all periods of that child's life.

I'm so distraught that they don't trust my assessment even as they agree that she's being bat-shiet-crazy.

My family that are involved tell me to wait, it won't last... but they don't realize that for it to not last will mean that I'll be divorced before she figures out her mistake and loses me.

And loses herself.

Affairs aren't free will...they are lost reason. Why is it so hard for others to see that?

EDIT: They don't think they shouldn't get involved... They just don't trust the way I'm wanting them to get involved.

Monc,

I very easily came to the conclusion after your 16 pages of posts that you lack the testicular fortitude to do anything about your wife's infidelity. That's too bad.

You've now broken your wedding vows by not doing everything in your power to protect your wife. Actually, you did that when you LET YOUR WIFE KISS OM!!! Did you enjoy that in some perverse way?

Don't you see the sickness in that?

I hope you're a troll because you're not a husband.

Sorry, I don't sugar coat things.

And I'm guessing she didn't show enthusiasm for that high tech computer you built because she knew it was only to support your gaming addiction which further distracted you from your marriage.

Sounds like you are easily manipulated by your wife.

She can get you to do almost ANYTHING by threatening divorce, threatening she won't love you, or that she will leave you.

Wow, just wow...she won't leave you because she can push you around and get you to do almost anything she wants...

So how do you take back control of you life and your M?

You say you have read things on here...other than the forums, read Dr. Harley's advice and articles.

People who don't know about the Harley's will give you advice counter to MB advice, and that is to be expected. Before you take their advice ask if they have lived through infidelity though. The rules change when you actually live through it.

Truth is not the enemy of you M, it's the enemy of the A. The A is the enemy of your M. So do you want to stop the A or stop your M? The choice is yours.

If you want to stop your M then don't expose, do whatever your W wants you to, agree to letting her maintain the R with the OM. Believe whatever she tells you, do not check up on her, and keep it secret. Oh yeah, blame yourself but don't do anything about changing yourself or your role in the M. You do this and you will be D by the end of the year...

You want your M? Then you have to end the A. The tried and true methods of ending the A is with Plan A...letting the truth of the A out...telling/exposing to anyone that cares. Don't tell them what to do, to apply pressure, let them make up their own minds of what to do... You are not the insipid, no-nothing H waiting at home for her to get a clue, you are knowledgeable, and not sitting around. You will also make this a M she will want to return to. You make yourself look like prime rib and the OM like chopped liver. You fawn on her all the EN's she needs (and if you don't know what EN's are, you need to do some more reading here my man...)

No one can do this for you, got to do it on your own.

Is your M worth it? Only you can tell.

Is your love for her greater than your fear of losing her?

"him to let me follow through with exposure"

You need your FIL permission?

What not get your mom's permission?

Monc,

I was just like you in my situation. I was paralyzed by fear. I was afraid of my WW the same way you are. All she needed to do was tell me, "That's it! We're going to divorce and it's going to be ugly and there's no chance for us to be together again!"

I would then surrender.

I didn't realize how pathetic I was until I had time and space and years on MB seeing other men behave in the same way.

So my advice to you comes from the perspective of completely understanding the fear you feel.

Here's the thing: Who cares what her father thinks? Seriously, who cares?

You can't count on support from her family. Blood is thicker than mud and you must assume they will take her side.

There's another realization that comes with age and that is that you can't control a single thing others choose to do. All you can do is inform them and make a suggestion, but other than that, they're on their own.

You need to move forward with your plans regardless of whether or not you have the support of her family. You simply tell them of the affair. How they handle that information is completely out of your control.

Sure, it would be great to have them support you, but that's not a guarantee.

So you tell him and move forward. You tell everyone, and move forward regardless.

You can't control what they do with the info. Some will help you. Others won't. But exposure still has to happen.

And you should be looking into whether or not you can sue the other man for Alienation of Affection.

The worst thing you can do, and something which you will kick yourself later for, is to respond to her with fear.

You'll shake your head in shame when you look back at this time period and see the indecisiveness or flat out pathetic behavior (crying, begging, cowering, fear) that you're going through.

It's normal, but you must fight it. Fight it for your dignity as a man and to have her respect you, because Plan Doormat never works on these boards.

they are wrong. They don't have the experience to know. They haven't seen it work. They aren't studying the psychology of the issue and know that shining light on an affair shows it for all its slimy disgusting mess so that the two are ashamed of themselves. They don't realize that having all their family and friends and coworkers look at them with disgust will seriously make them stop in their tracks and reassess if this affair is really worth it.

And your WW is playing you, telling you not to tell. When she says that, just say 'I'm not the one who is cheating and lying. You don't tell me what to do any more.'

Grow some self-respect, man!

Your right, i've constantly responded with fear.

Every time I've cowered.

And how do I respond to statements of I'm divorcing you? Just ignore it?

You call their bluff and start to talk about what it will take...

My suggestion, you say...

"That is not what I want, but if that is what you want, what is the first step? Do you have a place to stay?" (Do not move out first...) "Have you contacted a lawyer or should we use a mediator?"

There is a HUGE difference between threatening D and actually going through it. Either way, you have no choice if she has really thought about this and started to work on this.

There is a line that is crossed when a couple begins the process. I am willing to bet she has not crossed that line. She has probably fantasized about it...most unhappy spouses have, but have not done anything about it...

But if she has already crossed the line into divorceland, better to get that out in the open now. Know with what and whom you are working with...are you working with a manipulator, or is she serious...

Threatening D is your Kryptonite...she can get anything she wants at the threat of D...and what kind of marriage is that? One where she can throw the divorce trump anytime she feels she is not getting her way...

Reminds me if my daughter when she was five and I wouldn't let her have her toy back...she said, "I'm not going to be your best friend..."

Truly, do not fear you are pushing her into D by simply calling her bluff. You may have helped push her into D by your selfish and neglectful actions but not by exposure and fighting for your M. You are just preventing her from doing what she wants, and what she wants right now is harmful to your M.

So, once again may I suggest you read the articles on the website...not just the forums, but Harley's articles. You will find your answers...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Stick to this mantra: "I don't talk divorce, that is what lawyers are for. I only talk marriage. Wanna go out to eat?" (or some other question that changes the subject)...

Did you hear from the MB offices today regarding your first appointment, Monc?

Also agree with the others who have said you don't answer to your FIL...Didn't he give his daughter to you on your wedding day? She is YOUR WIFE...Your FIL has no say in your marriage, Monc...NONE...

Mrs. W

Don't think she hasn't talked to a lawyer. Mine did so and blindsided me with legal stuff in a way that had me unprepared.

I went along because, like you, I cowered. Even the threat of consulting a lawyer would send her into fits that had me cowering because I wasn't following her way of doing things.

The response to her threat is what has been suggested, with one corrolary, "I don't talk divorce, I talk marriage, but know this: if it goes down the path of divorce don't expect it to be friendly or nice. I will be merciless and will look to crucify you for adultery and marital misconduct and will sue the OM for Alienation of Affection while I'm at it. So your choice on which path we take. Reconciliation will be a lot less bloody."

I thought I shouldn't threaten her? That sounds like it.

An ultimatum?

yea I heard from them...but it's next Sunday at 7am.

No. Basic honest discussion of what you will do if cornered. That is called NOT being a doormat.

If she threatens divorce couldn't I also say I'll divorce for adultery?


Just talked to her on the phone...she's constantly screaming at me to let her go. And is threatening divorce. Also that if I talk to any more of her family she'll divorce me.

Seems like fear monger eh?

I think she's scared her fantasy is about to be destroyed.

A friend who I asked for a number from of the OTHER MANS mom's restaurant ratted on me...was why I just had a discussion.

Told her it was just to certify a claim that his mother already knew... Which I believe is not true.

She seemed distraught.

Yes, of course she is...She is a crack addict who doesn't want to lose her crack pipe...Take away the crack pipe, Monc...EXPOSE...

As far as the response goes to her threats of divorce, I personally would hide behind your attorney...get a bulldog and let him go to town...Anytime she brings up divorce, repeat the mantra: "I don't talk divorce, my attorney does that. I only talk marriage." Let the attorney be the bad guy...

Mrs. W

She just yelled at me she doesn't want me...and that it has nothing to do with him.

Yea, she said that...and I said I don't talk divorce, I talk marriage. And she yelled at me to let her go and hung up.

Then tried to bargon with me. That she'd stop talking to the other man until we were divorced in 61 days.

I didn't agree. She was pissed.

I'm going to expose. Finality in that statement. Starting with close family.

It's no use...

Everyone I've called tells me to stop and that it won't work out.

Everyone thinks I'm being vindictive and then starts asking questions and agree I must be hurting but that this isn't the way.

This can't work...it is just hurting everyone I tell.

No, the Affair hurt everyone you are telling.

Monc...

As I've told you repeatedly, blow this up on OM's side of the fence!!! TODAY!

Also, please believe me that exposure does work...it isn't always instant, but it does work...Rest assured it WILL put pressure on the affair...It WILL change the dynamics of it FOREVER...It messes up the fantasy...injects it with a dose of reality...Affairs thrive in secrecy and crumble in the light of day...

Mrs. W

Is there an equal sign here that I am missing?

How is it hurting other people for you to tell them the truth?

Who have you told so far?

Why is the fact that other people are as shocked over it as you were initially a sign that it isn't going to work?

What do you think the word "work" means in this context? What do you think exposure is supposed to do that it isn't doing or going to do?

Mark

She now knows you are exposing. Get everyone exposed ASAP tonight so that she can't spin the story.

My FIL is telling me that It'll only cause the family to hate me...

You have to realize I don't have a family on my side. I don't.

So the idea of losing them and my wife... Overwhelming.

I understand that it's the affair that is the hurt but I'm the messenger and everyone kills that person.

My FIL is acting in denial as it puts "if" she is having this affair in front of everything he say's to me.

If the one person I thought who'd be on my side isn't.

How are her siblings going to act.

I sent the FIL an e-mail that proves her actions but he still say's "if".

I trust in this...but I don't want them to hate me. WHAT THE [censored]! Why can't this be more clear to others.

To do this I have to accept the possibility of losing my wife and losing my family.

I told the mom and she did the same thing...said stop.

Monc...Your FIL is gaslighting you...You are gonna have to man-up and handle this...You CAN do it...Stop letting her adultery control you...Take charge and do what is necessary...If your wife were lying on the floor of a crack house right now would you go get her? Or would you listen to your FIL when he told you that it would embarrass the family for them to know she was there so you should just leave her?

Monc...ACT, don't REACT...

Mrs. W

I have a different take on this.

My husband's family is on the East coast (we're on the West) and he doesn't have a very close connection with them. So when I was having my affairs, he went to my family for support. It drove a wedge between my family and I that still has not been removed. The relationship I have with them is now very distant and "casual". That being said, they have stronger connection with my husband.

It can go the other way as well.

Do you think that their responses are their way of saying that they don't want to get involved?

Monc what you don't seem to get is that you have already lost them...Exposure is your best chance of getting your wife back...Now toughen up son...You can do this...

Call OM's Mom...Right now...

Mrs. W

Sparky...

It was YOUR BEHAVIOR that drove that wedge, NOT your husband telling them the truth...You get that, right?

Mrs. W

And what's the alternative?...having a WW that boinks other men but comes home to you every night...at least until she doesn't ever come home? :twobyfour: Grow a pair already. Sheesh.

We were both involved with other people at the time, to be honest.

I completely understand that my behavior was the reason for the wedge. What I find difficult to understand is that she invited my H and the xMOW over to her house for my brother's wedding reception.

They were telling me that if I go through with this I'll lose them... And they again told me to wait it out.

[censored] why am I so easily swayed away from my course!

Well I can't speak for why your mother would do something that is so morally wrong...That's a real shame...

I just want to make it clear that TRUTH is the solution to adultery...It is wrong to commit adultery, it is NOT wrong to expose it...Any consequences are NOT a result of the truth getting out, but of the adultery itself...

Mrs. W

I want ONE of you to link somewhere on this site where it talks about revealing to everyone around the wayward wife.


I can't find it. I find about revealing the affair itself but nothing about total exposure.

And I [censored] promised him I wouldn't continue... [censored]!

I just realized I said I promise I won't continue.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

If you lose them over telling the TRUTH, then they weren't worth having in your life, Monc...

When will you be calling OM's mother?

Mrs. W

I would just point out that this is a consequence of your affair. If there is a wedge, it is due to YOUR ACTIONS, not his. If he has exposed that you were singing too loud in church, there would be no wedge. If my sister had an affair, her AFFAIR would drive a wedge between us because I don't consort with adulterers. Now, if she changed and repented, I might befriend her again, but she would have to work to remove that wedge.

In fact, my sister is a druggie and THAT has driven a wedge between us. I told her when she is ready to straighten out, I will be there to help but I don't associate with druggies, sister or not. So please, lets not blame the TELLING of the truth, when it was the SUBJECT of the truth that drove the wedge.

Monc, please listen to Dr. Harley and other posters who are in recovered marriages. Your FIL is more concerned about protecting his DD from the consequences of her affair than he is in helping you save your marriage. He does not know how to save marriages.

Exposure is bound to make some angry. Mostly those who are corrupt themselves. But folks who know right from wrong will stand on the side of your marriage and will not throw you under the bus for exposure.

Exposure is simply the most powerful tool you have at your disposal. It is like chemotherapy to cancer, REGARDLESS of whether the foggy minded and those with an agenda object.

Do what is right and stop listening to the chatterers and the naysayers who don't have a CLUE what they are talking about.

Man up and do it because it is RIGHT, and ignore your FIL. Tell him "thank you, Sir, but I choose to follow the advice of a PSYCHOLOGIST who knows how to save marriages. I know you love your DD and want to protect her from conflict, but I also love her and intend on doing what is right for my marriage. I hope you will support me in that endeavor."

Dr. Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair:

"I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."

HUH? I posted Dr. Harley's very own words to you in this thread Monc...In GIANT LETTERS I might add...Did you read it?

Mrs. W

:crosseyedcrazy:

That was a bad promise...The only thing worse than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise...

Mrs. W

Re: Where do I go from here? [Re: hockeymom]
Dr. Harley Dr. Harley
#2160600 - 11/18/08 05:46 PM


Registered: 11/16/00
Posts: 2221


"I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."

http://www.marriagebuilde...umber=2160385#Post2160385 here

another:

"While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy. "

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr. here

The only thing WORSE than making a bad promise, is KEEPING a bad promise. Monc, your FIL is only trying to protect his DD's reputation. You are trying to save your marriage. If you lose sight of that in your approval seeking, you will LOSE your marriage. The goal here is save your marriage, not to appease your FIL. Keep in mind that Dr Harley knows how to save marriages - YOUR FIL DOES NOT.

Dr. Harley says this about exposure:

"When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery"

Waiting it out means that it gets deeper entrenched, you riskher getting pregnant or an STD and you lose your love for her and make it harder to overcome in R.

Agreed. How does that explain her welcoming my H and his MOW (at the time) into her home for my brother's wedding reception?

MS, I have no idea what this has to do with the subject at hand. My goal here is to help this young man. Please help us stay on that track. This thread is about HIM and his problems.

so Monc, I gotto ask you, How's "plan Monc" working out for you??

You've been given countless hours of how to do Dr. Harley's plan the right way, and yet, you continue to find objection after objection as to why you should not do it.

Have you studied these methods for over 35 years? Do you have your PHD in physchology? Have you ever saved someone else's M?
Have you figured out the difference between your left hand and your right hand?

Yet YOU KNOW that following this plan will destroy your M! You have as much capacity to save your M as do your WW's doting FIL and MIL. It is OBVIOUS that is where she got the selfish, self entitled perspective that she was entitled to have an A behind your back in the first place. That and your surrender to her impish and childish will. I'm sure her parents did the same. That is why you should stop, and protect their DD from the guilt and shame she so rightfully deserves.

Couple of the best here have wasted their time and breath on you, you cannot change your fear. A marriage is often won back by a warrior, because your M is under assault. It will NEVER be won back by a dreamer and an appeaser.

ETA: What would your next step be if you weren't afraid?

Good Luck with YOUR plan,
All Blessings,
Jerry

There's this for a start. From Q&A More later.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

Monc,

I understand to an extent. My exww's parents didn't want to hear what I had to say or see the proof that I had for them.

Nevertheless, exposure had to be done.

Now, that being said, you've been warned that you can't count on their support and that they will stick by their daughter over you because you're not family.

Sorry, you're not.

You're not blood. Only in America do we have this "mom" and "dad" thing for inlaws.

Not so in other parts of the world. It's understood that the MIL and FIL are "her" family and/or "his" family.

Monc, againg, you have to understand that this is not easy and that her parent's attitude towards you is irrelevant. You have inlaws that don't care or will side with their daughter. They are enablers. It's not surprising that she married an enabler considering your fear at upsetting a woman who is openly screwing another man and you're afraid of telling others she's doing so.

They don't want to hear the truth. Well your attitude should be, "Look, you can stick your head in the sand or hear the truth. Your daughter is having an affair and destroying her marriage and forsaking your vows. You can either side with her or do the right thing and encourage her to do the right thing."

Done, end of conversation.

Who gives a rat's a$$ about them at this point when they are enabling your wife's affair?

Wake up!

Now, expose to OM's family. THAT has a higher chance of ending things.

Exposure works.

You have women on here who are former waywards that are telling you what to do. You have men who have been in your shoes telling you what they wish they had done when they look back and you are repeating the mistakes they made. Guess where most of us are that didn't take a hard stand?

Divorced, separated from our kids, and in financial straights because the exww royally hosed us because we let them.

That's you and that's the path you're on.

The second you realize that life will be fine and even better without this cheating woman in your life, the better you'll be. Indifference to all of this is the best gift you could ever achieve.

Ironically, THAT is when she'll likely wake up.

One more thought:

I had a counselor who encouraged me to play along with her for a time and that this was some weird game for her and that likely come back if I played along and did as she asked.

Doing that got me nothing but divorced and broke and unemployed. I basically gave her all she wanted and asked for and allowed myself to be hosed.

And they are not your family. They simply aren't. You had your own parents. THAT is your family.

These people are showing their true colors. YOu're disposable to them over their cheating daughter.

If you don't stop the affair, you HAVE lost your family.

It was more that they didn't want to see me ostracized for attempting something they thought was completely absurd.

It's over, she want's a divorce.

Over the two family I did tell her about.

Why do the most faithful people always get screwed? I still love her and am...kind of just sad at the moment. I should be crying.

My WW told me the same thing when I exposed to OMW. Here it is 3 1/2 months since then and she still hasnt filed.

If she does file, delay it.

Do you understand that pretty much every wayward says that at one time or another? That is not the exception, but rather the rule...Your situation is NOT unique in the least...

If you want a chance at saving the marriage then expose...Call OM's mother and anybody else on his side of things...

As others have pointed out, you are very young with no children...You may be best off cutting bait at this point, but that is entirely up to you...

What do you hope to gain by being here on the MB board if you aren't going to follow the advice you are given Monc?

Mrs. W

By the way, all waywards say they want a divorce after any exposure...it's in the script...she is following it to the letter...If you want to kill the affair keep exposing...

Mrs. W

Let me see...
She's been lying to you for quite a while now. She denied actually having an affair and said that exposure would mean the end of your marriage so you believe her...

Monc, my wife told me she wanted a divorce. She told me there was no way she would give up OM. She told me she hadn't loved me in 20 years, in fact she never really loved me. She told me she married me for the wrong reasons, that she married me too young, before she knew who she was, who I was, what love was...

It's part of the script, man. EVERY wayward says those things..If you give them enough time, they'll say all of them.

Oh, and exposure?

"I was thinking of giving us a second chance, but not now."
"I thought about trying to work this out but you blew any chance of that."
"I could never trust you ever again after what you've done." I always laugh at this one...The cheater can't trust the cheated any more...
When they become wayward, they get a membership card and a book of idiotic things to say. It's part of the package. Just ignore it...

But now the 64 thousand dollar question...

What do YOU want?

Mark

PS We've been married almost 36 years, BTW. D-day was almost 3 years ago and my wife just came and kissed me goodnight while I was typing all of that...

Silly waywards...

Aint it the truth.

My WW told me the day after I told OMW that "I thought I would grow my love back for you and I have decided I wont". She also talked about how could I do this to her. If I really wanted her back I wouldnt have done this. She cant trust me.


The point is Monc, she will get over it. If she doesnt...that isnt what done it anyways. She's just using any excuse to play the victim role and to frighten you.

Monc, why don't you spend some time reading some of the other threads here, from their beginning, to see how EVERY OTHER BETRAYED SPOUSE has gone through the exact same thing you're going through - all the 'how could you do this' and 'you've ruined everything' and 'that's it I'm through'...

They ALL say the exact same thing. If we had had time, we could have printed it all here for you so you'd be prepared for it, BEFORE she said it to you.

You know, Cat has a good idea. In fact for a long time I wondered if I just got it faster than most guys but I've come to the conclusion that most guys don't read here very much. They want a short cut and there aren't any.

When I got here I read hundreds of threads, some going back 5 or 6 years. I read Longhorn's stuff and Bob Pure's thread before I ever even registered. I read WAT and Graycloud and Larry...My first post came after I had read SAA and was working on HNHN...

I learned reverse babble from Orchid and learned to focus from Swords. I learned to have some fun with this stuff from Pep and Mel.

Read what others have learned, Monc. No point in having to reinvent the wheel.

When I got here I felt my situation was totally unique. NO one could have ever been through what I was going through...

It took me all of three minutes to read the flash script running at the side of the page and a couple of threads to understand..."ILYBINILWY" "Too much has happened" "I need space" "I can't change the way I feel" "I don't feel that way about you."

These things all run right down the side of this very page as I type this. I heard every word. When I saw them I knew that either affairs are all alike or someone had bugged my vacation cabin.

You don't need insight, man. You don't need special revelations from God. You don't even need something special or magical. You need a PLAN that you can execute...

Unless YOU are done and then you just need a good lawyer to protect your rights and assets.

Mark

AMEN Mark!

Monc, breathe and read and listen to all the advice. You are getting the best here.

If you have not and are able make an appointment with Steve Harley. I think I saw where you were going to do that? He will get you on a plan and you will feel more grounded and able to cope. He has helped me keep my sanity. For you, please. Take in everything here, they have all been there and know what works.

I will keep reading and rooting for you.

26 with no kids and a lying unfaithful wife just a few years into the marriage?

Why stay married? There's actually good faithful women out there.

Well I'm going to tell her who knows.

Three cousins of hers and her parents.

And let her sit on that.

I have nothing further to lose.

And going to call the OM mother.

You don't have to tell her anything.

If you're going to use Exposure as a tool to kill the A, use it properly.

You are NOT using it properly at the moment.


1. DO NOT TELL YOUR WW OF YOUR EXPOSURE PLANS. Let her find out on her own who knows and doesn't know.

2. EXPOSE TO ALL PERSONS YOU BELIEVE CAN HELP TO END THE A. The objective is to shine the cold light of reality on the A. You are NOT doing that by limiting the exposure to only a few persons, then telling your WW about that afterwards.

The OM just stonewalled me. TOld me to never call there again.

Said I should talk to my wife...lol

My wife even told me the OM's mom wouldn't want to hear anything let alone talk to me.

Nobody I've told has been willing to "HELP".

Even her friends don't care and ratted on me...


This is just done.

My wife keeps claiming it's me she's leaving and not for him. Lol

So, did you ask to speak to the OM's mom?

If you didn't get through, continue trying.

If you still can't get through, pay her a visit.

Ignore the fog-babble from your W.

No the OM's mother stonewalled me. I talked to her. She said I don't want to talk to you, talk to your wife.

What do you mean by that?



So, file for D, and get that WW out of your life as quickly as possible. What's the saying - the best way to get revenge on someone who steals your W is to let him keep her?

What is it that you actually want, Monc? What's your end goal?

Monc, people react in different and sometimes unexpected ways when they're told about something that is particularly upsetting to them. The point now is that she KNOWS, and she will view her son's actions in a different light. The same goes for the other people you've told.

Well nobodies actively helped.

And I won't file for divorce.

So my wife said she would when she has "time" since she is so busy.

I don't know who else to tell that can exert pressure.

They've advised me but not confronted her.

The theory of this seems sound, but people's reactions are...resistant. Like I'm the adulterer.

And the OM's mom knows who I am but acted like she didn't.

So I shouldn't tell her that her parents knows even if they are not helping? I thought I was suppose to tell her afterward about who talked too.

Get back the woman I married.

Some of her friends who I told, went to her and said "I was revealing" the affair when I called asking about the OM's moms work place.

You've got her.

At 26 you ought to re-think your poor choice while you're still young.

"It's over, she want's a divorce"

It's over because you will not fight for her. You refuse to man up and not let fear control you. You start to expose then you stop finishing exposure.

As been stated before you need to expose. So WW gets mad and bangs the OM. Oh wait she is already doing that. She wants to leave you for OM. Oh wait she was already doing that.

Expose the hell out of her. At least if she does not come back everyone will know that she is a cheater.

Monc,

What makes this woman so special that you are willing to tolerate this kind of abuse from her? What is it about her that is so fantastic that you're willing to put up with cheating when you have no kids with her.

Seriously, would you ever be comfortable having kids with this woman after what she's done to you?

You're hanging on to this scum of a woman because you don't know any better. You can do better than a cheater and you deserve better than this.

The second you accept this, the better you will be. What makes you think you deserve this treatment?

You want scraps of affection from her, her family, and others.

Is your self esteem that low?

NO WOMAN is worth being treated this way.

Contact a lawyer and ask about an Alienation of Affection lawsuit against OM and file for divorce on the grounds of adultery.

Trust me when I tell you that the women out here are fabulous and that once you understand this that you will never tolerate an ounce of drama from a cheater with no morals who isn't worth a word out of your mouth or one tear on your part.

Taking that kind of attitude with her will make her respect you more, but you won't care since her opinion of you doesn't matter anymore than that of the local hooker working the corner down the street.

Sounds harsh, but that's the reality.

You know what... I think my WW already spun her story to everyone a month ago. That is why everyone is against me. I just read stuff where she is telling family that she thinks she married to young.

She believes this effort is trying to destroy every bit of happiness she's building...she's already vilifying me to everyone.

What's the point - so she can have more time to "spin" her story properly before talking to them?

Did you expect anything else?

That's why Exposure needs to be done as early as possible, to as wide an audience as possible, before the waywards have time and opportunity to give their own "spin".

Doesn't help me now.

Lets see what kind of flack the OM mother gives him.

She's telling everyone that she's been giving ME chances when she cheated. Wow.

So how do you manage the WW when they are acting like you are ruining all their happiness?

That [censored] storm keeps paralyzing me.

The New York trip is off and she didn't tell me. And is going to use the money to still go.

She IS planning on taking the OM with her I think.

She's being vile...wtf am I wanting this for?

My WW is getting a restraining order on me now for calling the OM mother.

Are you really that gullible?

I can't see her succeeding. I've made no threats. I know, I'm not being gullible, but she does do what she say's she's going to do.

Like her wedding vows?!?!

Good point.

Monc, have you exposed on Facebook yet? Why not?

I thought I'd go back and bring up some of the stuff that's gone on your thread, since you seem to have no fortitude. OM works at his mom's restaurant, right? If I were you, I'd be at that restaurant, telling the customers and the workers what OM is doing with your wife. I'd be posting ads in their local paper saying call me and ask me about this restaurant's owner's son. I'd be talking to him in public about scr&wing your wife! I'd be making his life miserable so he'll leave her alone. I'd be moving BACK into your own home and making HER leave.

Actually, at your age, I'd kick her to the curb and find a woman who deserves you, who doesn't lie, cheat, and make you out to be a jerk.

*sigh*

Anyway, here is some of your earlier (3 days ago, and you're already 'done') stuff:
That weekend Feb 7th she went to see her sister Claire who she told everything apparently.
Obviously not.
I immediately turned around and put all our money back into the bank.
Since then she has held that over my head as being a greater crime than her infidelity.
GO BACK AND CLOSE OUT THE ACCOUNTS! BEFORE SHE MOVES THE MONEY TO HER OWN ACCOUNT! This is NOT your wife, it’s a WW! An alien!
I've read them and tried them...but she just keeps going further and further away. She won't work with me at all outside of counseling. Sometimes she talks to me but she only finds reason to get angry when I confront her failings.
You haven’t read it all if you don’t know you that it does NO GOOD to talk to her until she has NO with other man and has been through withdrawal.
What is plan A exactly?
How can you say you’ve read everything if you don’t even know what Plan A is?
Everyone tells me that this Exposure thing will just make it worse...
Everyone who knows her and is afraid of her temper…NOT everyone who has had experience with affairs and has seen them dissipate when exposed.
People I've told so far about this idea is everyone.
You said this Saturday, and today you say you’ve told 3 cousins. Which is it? Have you told her best friend? Her other friends? Sisters? Brothers? Aunts? Uncles? Coworkers? Boss? His boss? His brothers and sisters?
How DEEP should I go? Cause Facebook literally exposes the entire family extended and all.
Most definitely do Facebook, then, if it tells everyone at once. You are saving her from herself by exposing. She is NOT herself right now. If you can get her away from OM, she can withdraw and return to her former self, the one you fell in love with.
I'll need to steal her phone to get the super list of numbers.
So get it.
I should name the OM to everyone too right?
H&ll yeah. Make sure he can’t do this to some other poor schlub’s wife!
Well I have no means to financially cut her off. Everything car, phone and such are in her name.
But you have access to your bank accounts. Do NOT let her withdraw from those accounts!
As I've said two family members know...an Aunt and uncle.
Is that good enough for now in terms of exposure?
Are you insane? No mother, father, sister, brother, best friend? What are you thinking?!
they are making me feel that if I tell everyone it'll only leave her permanently shamed in the family...that everyone will always look at her as the adulterer.
Now I KNOW you haven’t read everything here. When she leaves OM and goes through withdrawal, she learns shame and becomes repentant, and she asks her family for forgiveness and they forgive her and you have a better marriage than you had before.
I do know the other man's mother would castrate him for his current actions. The other mans mother had apparently said often that he'd try and hit on my wife and they'd cheat. Seriously. And look where I am for not listening to HIS mother?
Then TELL HER! And keep telling her so she'll tell her son to leave your wife alone!
What is frustrating is my wayward wife's father won't support this. I know he won't because it means that his wife would have to learn of my wife's actions. So...because of that I am forced to watch my wife walk away from me, because I can't disrespect him.
Bullchit! So you will GIVE UP your marriage just so you don’t disrespect your FIL? Do you think he will respect you? No!
Not meeting there I'm pretty damn sure. It's her Alumni college event.
I'm certain of that due to evidence.
And I’m certain he has already booked a room near hers so they can spend the evenings together when she leaves the event.
Told her it was just to certify a claim that his mother already knew... Which I believe is not true.
She seemed distraught.
Because she’s been lying to you. His mother does NOT know. Have you called her yet? Why not? She should be the ABSOLUTE FIRST person you call, as you said earlier.
I told the mom and she did the same thing...said stop.
They are why your wife feels entitled to scr&w other men – they have taught her entitlement – everything is for poor sweet daughter. Ugh! Ignore them and call HIS MOM again!
I want ONE of you to link somewhere on this site where it talks about revealing to everyone around the wayward wife.
I can't find it. I find about revealing the affair itself but nothing about total exposure.
Go back and read the first 5 pages of your thread. We already posted that information. You ignored it.

Have you frozen your bank accounts yet?

Have you moved back into your own home?

Have you inconvenienced her A in any other way?

Then you SHOULD just walk away, if you're not willing to fight for this marriage.

Sorry, I'm on xanax so my memory is [censored] for short term.

Frankly, I agree with catperson and baron. Can you imagine having children with this woman and going through this with 3 little children in tow? Cut your losses and get out while the getting is good. You said yourself she doesn't change her mind and is intent on divorce. Why not take her at her word and just move on?

And I would bet you $100 that the first time you DO say 'fine, I'll see you in court,' she'll whip her head around so fast and beg you to stop you won't even see it. She needs to respect you to love you, and she obviously doesn't. Her parents taught her to feel entitled to use people, so the only ones she'll not use are those she respects - those who stand up to her.

Because she's also being crazy? And lying, and cheating? Something she doesn't normally do.

You heard this all too? LOL

Almost word for word from my wifes mouth.

Monc,

At this point there is only one phone call you need to make...

Call a lawyer and get rid of this woman while the gettin' is good.

Mark

But you told us that she said she was DONE and that she means everything she says, remember?

Or it is exactly what she normally does and is who she really is.

It took falling out of love with my exww to see her for who she really was: a drama queen who has no self esteem and who uses medical conditions to draw attention to herself and/or creates the medical drama to draw sympathy and get attention.

I didn't see her that way till I fell out of love with her yet everyone of my friends and family saw that long before I did.

I would give anything to have seen her this way when I was your age and could have bailed on her without having to go through the financial and emotional loss I suffered at her hands years later when she cheated on me with 3 kids in the picture.

You have the opportunity to dump the cheating woman now and start anew with someone who deserves it. NO WOMAN is worth this. NONE.

And waywards threaten legal action without knowing a single thing about the law. You can't make a restraining order or file harassment charges because you make a phone call to someone else about something they don't exactly like.

Call her bluff and tell her to give it her best shot and waste the court's time.

Seriously, you need to start acting like you're 10 foot tall and bullet proof and are sure about what you're doing.

Sure she is

My freind you are absolutly all over the map.
Stop listining to what she, or her supporters say. Start looking at what she is actually doing.

And CALM DOWN!!

Many of those supporters will abandone here after they see more of her actions come to light.

My WW's e-mail:


After she found out I called her guys Mother. Supposedly I deserve to be scared.

Also, doesn't that seem almost polite?

And should I respond?

By what method could this turn into a case of harassment in TX?

Here is what you reply:

W, the man you are having an affair with invaded the privacy of MY marriage. I will not tolerate that offense without responding. I have responded by informing his mother, your family, and our friends of THE TRUTH. Why do you have a problem with me speaking about the truth? Please, I would love to hear why you have a problem with me talking about your actions, if there is nothing wrong with your actions. I'm waiting to hear your answer.

I can wave any flag I want to, as long as you are married to me and having sex with ANOTHER MAN!

You want to call the police? Please go right ahead. Here is their number (XXX-XXXX). I would love to hear what they think when I tell them I am responding to your infidelity.

And you can tell your affair partner that his family is welcome to address me any time they like, and I will be happy to talk to them about how their son, brother, cousin, or nephew is scr&wing the wife of another man.

Have a nice day.

PS: I will be returning to our home tonight. If you try to prevent me, I WILL be bringing the police.

Love,
H

It can't. They are blowing smoke because you have them scared, now.

Catperson,

I liked that. I sent it to her.

Should I threaten to expand my "exposure"? Or just continue on?

I'm feeling liberated now... Once we divorce I'm not going to have the family anyway. I won't want to see "THEM" standing together ever...it'll just make me sick.

And why would I want a family that protects an affair? Granted...some have been helpful, but not in the way I need.

Don't threaten. Just do it. Threatening will simply inform her, and she'll use that information to counter- expose (i.e. make up some story about what a raving lunatic you are so when you expose, that's exactly what you sound like). In fact, she is already informed that you are exposing so do what you need to do quickly. It's the only chance you really have to make a difference.

Her friends list encompasses EVERYONE in her life... That would be a big explosion...

Where do you think the term "nuclear exposure" comes from? Explode away!

Game..Set... and Match.

Nice one.

So is plan D and/or FU in motion now?

She is making threatening noises because exposure is WORKING. It's causing PROBLEMS over in affair-land. You are not doing anything illegal as long as you are polite and do not continue to expose to a person if THAT person has asked you to stop. (This does not mean your WW asking you to stop.)

I live in Texas and adultery is still on the books, even though it's no longer used as grounds in a divorce. You can still CLAIM it in a divorce petition as it relates to property division and custody.

I just found out it can also be a separate cause of action in a civil suit!

Here's an article about suing your spouse for adultery in Texas (not divorce)

(BTW, this is NEWS to me and I've been in the legal field in Texas for years!)

Monc,
drop the exposure bomb, soon as you can. Even if it doesn't save your marriage, at least the family will KNOW the divorce is not exclusively (or even mostly) your fault, but hers.

None whatesover from what you have told us. Unless you threatened her or called her repeatedly after she asked you to stop, this isn't harrassment. Sounds like someone is just pissed off because you made them look bad, which is somewhat the point.

It also isn't defamation, which is a term that is used all too loosely, and it sounds like you may hear it soon. If it's true, it's not defamatory - remember that.

-Edit: sorry I guess I wasn't on the last page like I thought.

A reply to one of my e-mails:

A therapist, whom I respect very much once told me this:

When considering a divorce, a lot of times it just doesn't happen because one person is willing to hold on to the marriage for better or for worse and even though the other person says they are done they'll usually continue on. If the other party isn't fully "in it to win it though" their sword will come back out and it will start all over again. This sometimes even results in the opposite person wanting to leave the marriage, and maybe now the other one wants to keep it going, creating a circle of bad behaviour in the marriage that may never correct itself.

There's only two ways to break the circle. Someone has to put down their sword, or you both decide to go your seperate ways.

In my opinion Monc, I'm having a hard time determining exactly what it is you are wanting to do. If you wish to persue the marraige, then persue (cautiously) - but if you are wanting to walk away, it seems like the writing is right there on the wall.

I want the marriage.

She had an affair and now thinks I'm not "IT" because she feels more strongly about the other guy now.

Monc,

Beware that there is a part of a BH mind which says, "I will win her back and then get rid of the cheating bit**ch on my terms."

It's a battle that really isn't worth fighting.

You're pursuing a cheating and lying woman. Why? You haven't answered that question. You say this isn't normally her. But it is. This IS who she is. She is showing you her true colors. She's a cheater who puts no value on vows or marriage or family.

If she wants a divorce, then why doesn't she file?

And move back into your house/apartment. You have as much a right to be there as she does and you'll be making a statement that you're not going to make things easy or will be going down without a fight.

And I'd confront OM. I like the idea of going to his restaurant when he's working and announcing to everyone that he's doing your wife.

Embarrass him. Humiliate him. Regardless of whether or not you keep her. Do it.

The OM is hours away and I know not his where abouts.

Or I'd have probably kicked his [censored] by now just in frustration.


Why do I want her back? Because those vows and promises mattered to me. Even if she's broken them.

I'm a unique case. She was my first everything.

I've got a great deal of emotions tied up in her.

Letting that go...I'm trying to fight.

Though you are right about some things. She IS this person but I see that now and I want to be the one to help her be better than this.

That is what being her husband is to me... It's hard but I can only fight for her even when she doesn't want me.

Before this she wasn't a lying cheating woman.

I promised 60 years to her...

As to filing(said last night she would since I won't): She claims she was going to give me a year to work this out but now she's going to file when she has time. The year was to fence-sit and see who she wanted. If I'd please her but at the same time she was indulging in the other guy...so basically stringing me along without realizing it.

She reminds me of my ex-fiance. I started dating him in high school; he was 3 years older than me. He was a manipulator. At one point, he said to me "I don't think you're mature enough for me. I'm going to give you 6 months. If you're not grown up enough by then, I'll just have to leave you and find someone else." Of course, I begged him not to leave me, to give me one more chance. It was the most humiliating moment of my life and I've hated myself ever since; it was so traumatic that I remember it exactly, like it was yesterday.

Don't do that to yourself.

After calling the OM mother. The mother threatened to cut him off financially for his college.

My WW called me telling me that she would do anything I wanted down to sex slave if I would never call his mother again...that she'd not talk to him for five years to protect him.

I told her I didn't want her to be my slave, I wanted my wife.

She said she'd do anything and any list could be written except divorce was absolute...

She said I had finally broken her.

She said she'd go to her family and tell them how much of a "whore" she was.

What the hell?

She's an amazing actor by the way. Although I try to believe her at all times.

The OM who I being a emotional/intellectual person myself, am sympathizing with him. I don't want to destroy his future career. Is Exposure basically coercion or is it meant to just break their fantasy down?

That's its primary use...

Fantasies don't like daylight...

Or truth...

Or reality...

All of which exposure brings to the fight.

She's going to want to negotiate some way to keep OM in the loop. The only thing you can live with is total unconditional surrender. Nothing less will stand a chance of real recovery.

Hold out for "Whatever it takes for as long as it takes." The "I'll do anything if...(if you don't interfere with my affair)" line is still quite a ways off from what you need from her to know she is ready to work with you at recovery. And you certainly don't want to trade for anything you might get from her for a divorce unless YOU are ready to divorce her and want to just take everything in the process. In that case just write everything down for her and have her sign it over to you.

She's willing right now to do ALMOST anything to get you to stop interfering with her fantasy. You now have to wait for her to end the fantasy and be ready to give you whatever you need to stay married to her if you want to recover your marriage. Raise THAT bar as high as you can dream...Do NOT settle for the sake of peace...

Oh, and the divorce thingy?

All WWs say that when exposure happens. "I was gonna work this out with you but NOW you've blown any chance you might have had." or "I was thinking about trying to work on our marriage but after what you did I could never forgive you..." (as if what they did was not wrong and therefor requires no forgiveness) or "There's no way I could ever trust you again..." (I really like that one. The WW can't trust her BH because he fought for her instead of letting her ruin his life and hers as well.)

Ignore all of it, Monc. It's all just the babbling of an insane person.

Mark

This shows why you want to fight so badly. Trust me, she's disposeable. You just don't know any better. You've been driving a Pinto this whole time. There's lots of Mercedes and Ferraris out in the world. You don't know any better because you've been with just a Pinto this whole time.


This is where you're very mistaken. YOU can't do a darn thing to change her. Not one single thing. SHE can change her.


She was. You just didn't know it. Now OM is in the picture. He'll get cheated on too. And then the next guy. She'll likely marry several times.


So lawyer up and be absolutely merciless. Leave her with nothing.

You don't understand that you're in a way and will be fleeced if you don't prepare.

And what she said to you is pretty standard wayward garbage.

Keep exposing. Move back into your apartment or wherever you lived before with her. It's your home as well. Force her to get papers. If she leaves, then file for abandonment.

Seriously, you don't know better. It's mainly your age. There's a wonderful world of women who you could start with a clean slate and who have morals and who won't cheat.

Believe me, if she came back you'd always wonder about her. You won't love her the same way she did before unless she really, really changed and that's no guarantee. Many a BS on these boards can't get past the cheating.

They go through predictable stages in recovery. First it's the elation of the return. Resentment and anger kick in afterwards when reality hits. Even SH says that the biggest threat to a marriage in recovery is the BS.

It's happening to Krazy on this board, who is 3 years into recovery and just can't get past the cheating.

And she broke her vows and gave you one of the few biblically justifiable excuses to divorce.

Monc, I for one give up.
I can't fathom at this point why you haven't done the same.

When do you say enought=!!! And move on?

Why not wipe the slate clean and start again. Admit that you made a horrible choice for a W and leave it at that?

All Blessings,
Jerry

Mark:


So your saying I have to wait for her to beg to stay in the marriage? And raise the bar she has to obtain to appease me?


Shine, you give good advice and berate often. You're useful and fracking annoying.

Why I don't wipe the slate? As I joked with a friend...I'd have to learn how to date like a 16 year old but only be 26. Seriously though. I. Made. A. Promise. To. Her. That is who I am.

Others, not naming is not thanking you too.

Baron, I've loved your advice entirely all the way through.

I'm just...I love my pinto, what can I say? See...if I can recover this I'm fairly sure I can prevent a cheating again because this site will prepare me with important tools I wish I had at the beginning. And if she does, well I know what to do right away to stomp it into the dirt again.

Marriage should also require "TRUE" marriage counseling. Not that [censored] they gave us about compatibility. They need to teach how to change with each other like this site does.

Not blaming myself(skeptical):She wanted more excitement in her life but I was boring, a computer geek. I could have gone dancing once in a while or do something crazy and I think she'd have been good.

But what do I do with this "Desperation" from her?

She will bring it up again and I can only dodge so many times. I don't know what to answer her with.

Because right now it looks like she's "anchoring" into him.

I'm saying that right now she isn't worth wasting time on and if she does decide she wants to return to you you need to get a marriage out of it that is above reproach, beyond suspicion and she needs to become your dream spouse.

Minimum: counseling with a pro marriage counselor, better still Steve or Jennifer, a MB weekend, an agreement to follow all MB concepts for the rest of your lives together and maybe a post-nup agreement that says that if she ever cheats again you get every marital asset and she gets 50% of the bills as a minimum.

She won't likely ever agree to such things, but that has to be your starting point. If you begin at perfect and negotiate from there you might get something of value in the end. If you settle for her crawling back to you because she is out of options and let her treat you like second best, you will just be biding time until the next OM comes along to make her panties damp...

What I'm suggesting to you is that if I were you I would follow JL's advice anyway and find someone real, committed and faithful. Baring that, only accept forever faithful from your WW.

You will know when she is remorseful and repentant. She won't have to say it because it will be her actions that show it to be true. If she says "I'm sorry but..."(Fill in the blank with anything other than "I'm a cheating lying sl^t and not worth spit") and the remorse is only for getting caught. Broken people act broken. Any remaining self serving actions (or language) mean they aren't broken, just sorry they got caught.

Too many BHs take their WW back just because she agrees to come home. They sulk and cry over OM, withhold sex, whine about their lot in life and spend their time making their husbands wish they had let them go.

Aim at the moon and you might not hit it. Aim at a hole in the ground, you'll hit it every time (unless you're using a putter) :RollieEyes: , but it will never shine like the moon...

Don't accept a mud hole for fear of never reaching the moon...

OH, in case you need reminding, none of this applies now. You don't tell her that while she is still running away. Considering your lack of following advice so far I thought I might need to add that...

Mark

Let me see if I understand this, she'll do anything you want just as long as you keep quite until she's able to divorce you? Nope, sorry!

Sounds like you hit a nerve with OM mother. She's going to cut him off finically? The dude is probably ready to bail thinking that this isn't worth it. Or he told his mom that he ended it and their keeping their relationship DEEP underground from her. If you get wind that he's still seeing her and you tell Mom, not only is her "little boy" still sleeping with a married woman she was also lied to. She's try to keep you quite.

Most of the people you've talked to state that they don't want to be involved. Well, people are curious by nature. Their gonna ask her what's going on. She probably spun up this evil image of you and now they're seeing a different side of the story. AND they can SEE that she seeing someone else. Who's more believable now?

The advice I give you is based on the very hard lessons I've learned at 36. I was an idiot when it came to women when I was growing up, but the worst was in my 20s. I fell madly in love with all the wrong kind of women. I had "White Knight Syndrome" and saw myself as the romantic Knight in Shining armor with a need to save the damsels in distress. The first really serious girlfriend I had was hung up on an ex of hers who was in jail and (unbeknownst to me) was trying to quit drugs cold turkey. I had no idea.

I at least had the presence of mind to let her go.

The next woman I met was seeing me and another guy at the same time. I didn't know. She went on to marry the other guy. I was MADLY in love with this woman and thought she was "The One".

She later contacted me after marrying this other guy and we had an emotional affair for a while afterwards. I was still in love with her when she contacted me and her unhappiness was something I hung on to and I had restored hope that she would leave this man and go with who she was originally intended to be with. I seen now how wrong it was for us to talk, but my romantic notions overrode everything else at that time.

The next woman I got serious with was really attractive, but a mental case. She was bipolar. She was very exciting and I wanted to marry her. I'm soooooo glad I didn't. She's on her fourth husband right now and is in her early 30s and about to split from the fourth.

Then came my now exww. She seemed normal at first. She was young, though, which in hindsight was probably our greatest problem. I am 7 years older than her and was well past the need to go to clubs and dancing, etc. She has a very strong need for attention and really needs a man who will be at her side all the time because she has anxiety attacks on a regular basis and it is very normal for her to suffer from one massive medical scare a year which usually turns out to be not as serious as originally thought. When we were married she thought she had skin cancer, breast cancer, IBS, Krohn's Disease, and dozens of anxiety attacks. All of them were taken seriously by me and they were nerve wracking each time, but a sense of "Cry Wolf" started creeping in.

She cheated on me when I was deployed for war and went out with 5 guys in the two weeks before I came home.

My "sins" as a husband sound similar to yours. Wasn't romantic enough. Didn't like to go dancing. Let my mom express her opinion too much.

The faults are easy for her to focus on. She overlooks the times I gave up flights and the career sacrifices I made to be at her side during all her medical scares. And there is absolutely no way she can say I wasn't an involved father. I helped in every aspect of taking care of the kids and would often stay with them and watch them while she "ran errands".

I had my moments when she was sick where I would ask myself, "Why did I marry someone who can't handle stress or is so sick all the time?"

But I'd always remind myself of "For better or for worse".

I too wanted to forgive her infidelity and restore our marriage nor did I see my alleged sins as a husband as things that couldn't be addressed, but the reality is that I wasn't the one that was broken. She was and still is and still has that "woe is me" victim mentality.

I've already heard the stories of the guy she's with who does the same exact stuff I use to do. I've heard how he helps her out of bed and down the stairs because of her latest ailment (back pain from a car accident that her boyfriend was in as well).

I was even told by people who know them both that he's a good guy, but they feel sorry for him and think she'll leave him before he leaves her.

All I care about is that he treats the kids well, which is good.

In the course of my healing I've learned hard lessons about women and see very clearly now that I settled in every single relationship I was in. I didn't seek women who were mature and sought women who had emotional voids. I felt good about filling the emotional voids for them and patted myself on the back for it and for "being a good guy".

What I've learned is that settling is not an option. I've learned that women in their 30s are awesome to date because most of the ones I've met are mature. I've learned that if you end it with one, you can easily find someone else after some time.

And the best thing that has happened to me in my personal life is that I've met a woman who is emotionally stable and who supports herself completely and puts zero pressure on me about anything. We're both nerds and revel in our nerdness. She watches Battlestar Galactica and has discussions with me about who she thinks is a Cylon and where the plots are headed.

She is my lobster.

But I suffered a lot of heartache to find her.

So what I'm saying to you in my advice comes from a long history of dating the wrong kind of women. Your wife is just that kind. She married young, which is a very common thing to find in wayward wives on these boards. So she wants to find what's out there and what she thinks she's missing out on. You're lucky you have no kids with her. What you're likely to learn is that there's better and more compatible women for you out in the world, but you're stuck loving your Pinto.

This isn't to minimize the pain you feel. It's very real. It hurts worse than anything short of the death of a child. But you WILL get past it and will be grateful you're not with her anymore. Trust me on that.

I was just as madly in love with my "lost love" when I was 26. Crazy mad in love with romantic notions. Never thought I'd love like that again. The truth is that I haven't loved like that again, but that's because I'm older now and see that romantic notions can cover up reality. So instead of images of rainbows and butterflies flying with bunnies playing on grassy fields while holding hands, I focus more on important stuff like "what do I have in common with her?" and "does she support herself" and "is she a drama queen or not"?

She was your first everything. I get that. I completely understand the intesity of that emotion.

But I can say, with near certainty, that you'll be glad to have let her go and will see her, after some time, for who she really is once you've had time to heal.

You have nothing to lose by going to a Plan B after you're done exposing. Nothing to lose at all since you're on the path to divorce right now as it is. There's no more powerful a motivator as the fact that there is nothing left to lose. The fact is that she is lost. You have nothing to lose by following the advice you're given here which seems counter-intuitive, but you won't regret having done it when you look back.

You will look back and be glad you exposed and did it properly, regardless of her return. You should be talking to a lawyer right now about an Alienation of Affection lawsuit to bring against OM and possibly a Civil Suit for damages caused by adultery (heard about this being possible in Texas).

Cliches have truth to them, and there is no more truth than "there's plenty of fish in the sea".

So let this one go. Heal. Then go find your lobster.

Monc, you can clearly see exposure is having an effect. It IS working. Her reaction to it is evidence that you have hit the target and caused damage to her fantasy. Awesome! But there's more work to do here.

She's still looking for a way to keep the OM without destroying everything else in her life. If you cave in now, she's just going to take her A even further underground. It's not so much waiting for her to beg to come back. It's more about showing her what her choices are, and allowing HER to make them. Through exposure and plan A, the better choice will clearly be the M. But be forewarned, waywards don't often make the better choice. Either way, it MUST be her choice or she will never be fully committed to the M - she'll always be looking for a way to keep the OM (this one or another one) around only this time she'll be craftier and better at keeping info away from you.

The Exposure Bomb seems to be working. See how the response had changed after the exposure has had some time to sink in? I suggest that it would have been even more effective if done earlier.



It's a means to end the fantasy.

BTW - you are NOT responsible for the consequences suffered by the OM! It was his choice to engage in an A with your WW that led to this situation and the possible damage to his career.

Also, you should get into the habit of recording those conversations with your WW. Start a journal about your interactions as well. And protect your finances. Remember, while she is in wayward mode, your WW is an ENEMY to your M, and WILL take steps to destroy the M, and YOU, if she thinks it's to her benefit.

Worth repeating and committing to memory:

Everyone, can you give him a list of demands he needs to put in effect? For starters, you need to MOVE BACK INTO YOUR HOME!

TODAY!

You have GOT to get that control back.

What do you do with this desperation? You work on the other part of Plan A, the part where you fix what was wrong with the M.

What part did you play in the demise of the M?

You've only hinted at some things. Does she have reasonable complaints about you? Work on fixing those...

Make yourself worthy of winning her back...

Monc, this is very important. If you get back together, she has to see a reason to stay. You may have been half of the problem.

(but that doesn't mean you let her have a pass on not being transparent about her actions and working NC)

Baron,

I'm starting to see that. She's taking steps now to completely cut me off socially so that I can't communicate wit her. She just removed me from Facebook and Myspace as well as my brother and his wife.

All through the one "withdrawal" period where they first broke up she never told me what happened and so was dead inside. She said when he came back she came alive again. She just won't here me when I said that sounds like an addiction.

Catperson, I've said the apartment is being let go and we are both moving into our own places.

Here response to everything is like this is a romance novel...and I'm the bad guy who won't let her go.

You're about to have Plan B imposed on you.

My friend, it's time to move away from the denial and accept that this is truly over.

Shield yourself from her abuse, expose to the last remaining folks, get yourself a good lawyer. File first on the ground of adultery and martial misconduct.

Be ruthless.

Go quiet in the meantime and start carrying on with your life.

Monc,

Those of us who have fought so hard to save our marriage whether we succeeded or not tend to be passionate about not giving up because we ourselves often wanted to do just that. For anyone who was ready to throw in the towel and then wound up in a recovered marriage or at least in a marriage in recovery, it is very hard to advise someone to just cut his or her losses and move on...

And yet that is what I advise you do...

You are still floundering, grasping at anything you can think of and looking for that magic bullet that will right the world that has suddenly turned upside down. This is the EASY part...Recovery is where it gets hard...

As a wise adviser around here is fond of saying, let's look at the data...

* You are both pretty young
* You have no children together
* You can identify issues with the relationship from the beginning
* You pretty much admit that your main reason for wanting to save this marriage is to avoid failure (vows meant something special to you etc)
* Your marriage isn't that entrenched because it is still pretty new
* You have little in the way of assets that need to be divided and even less that she seems to want from you in a settlement


And these are the positive things you have going for you... :MrEEk:

Not every marriage can be saved and more importantly not every marriage should be saved.

Are you 100% certain that you can move beyond this and build a great marriage with this woman?

Do you have a plan (a specific set of things you can do, in sequence no matter what she says, does or does not do) to save your marriage?

Do you know what you will need from her in order to feel like you have a marriage and not just a relationship that is on the verge of collapse?

Do you think that you would be able to have a family with her and know that your children will be taken care of whether or not you are there at all times?

I'm not asking if you think she can change in the person you want, but if you want to live the rest of your life with who she is...

Mark

Yeah, and email me to let me know where you are in Texas. You need my attorney since your wife is the way she is right now. He will take excellent care of you. I just hope you are in one of the "right" counties.

Take care,

Charlotte

I think he's up north, Charlotte. He mentioned San Marcos, and a 'trip' to Houston.

I know your intentions are meant well Baron.

I know part of this is due to my vows...but it's that from this site I know what and how to figure out what we both need.

Unfortunately she laughed at me when I told her I wanted to meet her emotional needs.

This danger and fear of ruining the other mans life through talking to his mother again, is a reaction.

I just don't know how to proceed with it. If I give her a list of things that I want so that I don't call the OM's mother again, that would be a form of blackmail correct? She's trying to create a case to call blackmail on me because she knows I'm also desperate in my own way.

She also thinks I'm being vindictive by calling her...and she knows me. She knows vindictive is not my nature.

This almost seems like a chance to bargain with her...to get her to the discussion table because since I found out about the affair she's not been at the table.

At least... I missed my opportunty to bring her to the table before because I didn't know what to do or how to proceed such as this site directs.

I was too needy after discovery. I was clingy and everything that looked weak.


I have a lawyer in hand for advice. Thanks.

OK, so this is your very lame excuse for not fulfilling her EN's?

Sorry for this, but if my H gave up so easily and made such flimsy excuses for not acting in ways that would try to make me happy, we would not be married any longer.

You can try harder...

So?

Which of you has their full mental faculties at this time? Are you going to let a fog-filled alien dictate your relationship?

Quit being a wimp.

She will NEVER respect or WANT you if you continue giving in every time she gets petulant, whines, glares, or yells. She will HATE you for being such a spineless schlub. Any woman would. It is in our DNA to need our man to be strong. DNA.

Look at how fast she turned around as soon as you showed a backbone. Now it has retreated back into your nether regions. So she has reverted back to hating you.

I really don't think you are spending very much time thinking; merely feeling. Which does you absolutely.no.good. So let's get some things straight.

• You do NOT try to reason with a WW. There is no human in that brain - only a fog-wrapped alien addict bent on maintaining access to the drug of OM in any way possible.
  
• You DO NOT give her a list of things you want SO THAT YOU DON'T CALL OM'S MOM. You give her a list of things that would make you CONSIDER letting her stay in your life. Got it? You couldn't care less what happens to OM and/or his mom. You DO care that your own wife is schtupping another man while married to you. Outrageous! is what you should be feeling right now, not concerned if OM gets his funding cut off. He is an ant, an amoeba, a cell; beneath you in every shape and form.
  
• You are NOT desperate. You are NOT blackmailing anyone. You ARE telling her what it takes for you to be willing to FORGIVE her. Got it?
  
• Who gives a flip if she thinks you are being vindictive? YOU sure don't. You don't even care what she thinks at this point because she has betrayed you, the ultimate betrayal, and you are trying REALLY REALLY hard not to HATE her at this point. Thus the list of things that she will have to do, if she has any intention of DESERVING your forgiveness. Got it?
  
• You do NOT bargain with a crack heroin alien addict. You DICTATE RULES for continued dialogue with you. You will remain in contact with OM's mother for as long as your alien wife remains in contact with OM. PERIOD. Got it?
  

Answer this. Did your WW NOT turn tables and start working WITH you the minute she realized you had grown a spine and started running the show? Did you not get the result you wanted when you followed our advice? In record time, may I add?

Then KEEP listening to us, follow our advice, and man up! Act like a man, not a woman. Demand her respect or kick her a$$ out on the curb. Period. There is no in-between.

And if you choose any in-between....you get the hell you deserve with her.

What? I was trying to introduce the concept to her... Geez assume much?

To talk about what she wanted.

Liked that last post cat.

There is talk and there is action...

If all you are going to do is talk about it...

then laughing is all you will hear.

What have you done to fulfill her EN's up till now?

Monk,

What do you know about OM? The reason I ask is I fear that you don't, at this point, really know what your WW's top EN's are.
But, rest assured, your WW's OM does know. I suspect you are a good man who has been missing the mark for years because you don't really know your WW enough.

You wouldn't be the first or last spouse to do so. That's why A's are so prevelant in M's. Aproaches 55% of all M's. That is a pretty depressing thouht, but it would seem to be true. For the record, I have been M'd 39 years. That's 13 years before you were born. Both of my sons are at least 10 years older than you.
But if I thought that an A would strike my M while we we professing vows to each other, I would have never said "I DO", but rather "HECK NO."

Things can and often do go sour in a M, But it is not an excuse for an A. Excuses are a33holes, everybody's got one.

Having said the above, I question if there is a chance for this M to recover? If your WW would return to the M, what would you do? Would you put her in a glass cage and guard her like the crown jewels? Isn't she responsible to guard you and your M in the same mannor and fashion as you? Ask yourself truly, under the current state of mind that she is in, is she ever going to be capable of doing that in a way that you can be happy and confident of that?

I just wonder sometimes, at such a young age, why you can't see that this decision to marry, may have been a horrible mistake. Im my case, we had been M'd and raised a family for nearly 32 years. We both had a huge stake and investment in our lives dedicated to each other. Doesn't decrease the pain, but, makes R a more plausible solution and desire.

From Dr Harley:

So Monk, there needs to be something here that Dr David Carder qoutes in his book entitiled "Torn Assunder," called "Godly Sorrow" on the part of the betrayer. Without it, there will never be R. Does this sound even remotely close to what your WW is offering you.

I'm just saying..........
Your choice, in spite of what your wounded heart is telling you......

I do wish you all the best.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Shinethrough, how old were you on marriage day?



I wouldn't put her in a glass cage. I'd talk to her and she'd talk to me and we would learn how to stand back to back guarding each others flanks.

We BOTH failed to guard our marriage properly. We both failed at that. We both saw the signs but looked away. Our fairy tale couldn't be disturbed or else... So we both looked away.

And we are paying the price for our own fantasy.

We were two twenty year old kids that no one, including our parents, gave a snowballs chance in he)) that we could ever survive beyound 3 to 5 years.

Our M has since outlived our parents and continues, in spite of trauma beyond description over her betrayal. so you see, I am not an unbeliever. But it has not come without a cost. Guess I would have been outa here a long time ago if it didn't.

Just wondering if you, at such a young age, are going to be able to bear the cost of this betrayal. It will take the rest of your lifetime, in ways that you cannot yet conceive. I'm too old to worry about it. Perhaps that insulates me in many ways.

I do truly hope you find your answers, Monc, really I do.

All blessings,
Jerry

I know that he is dominant. He is charming and charismatic. He is not tender. He is intelligent. He is physically fit. He is confidant. He is self assured. He does what he wants. He is taller than my wife. He shares theater with her. He also learned singing from her. They talk a great deal about the same topics. Music and theater...but that is it(nothing broader). I am/was beginning to come around to talking to her about those things...but she cut me out before I really got to fill that EN.

I know that he gives her full attention...I used to. I know he talks to her endlessly...I used to. Theirs is on the same subject all the time. I know that my WW is fantasizing about a future with the OM. I know that she did so with me.

The WW and the OM are identical really in many ways. Personality and interests. I hear that is a bombshell waiting to explode from my counselor. *shrug*

When they talk it's often about themselves and what they are doing. I didn't ever communicate much about what I was doing to her.

So Communication is definitely a big one for her...identifying is important as well. I saw that and before things went to hell and I lost it over the OM still being in the picture, we were working towards covering that EN actually.

The sad part was that the OM left the picture at one point leaving my WW in withdrawal. While all my efforts were not being put into her Love Bank. I didn't know this...and then the OM came back and nothing could go in anymore as well.

Although I've been the one working to fulfill her's right now...mostly because I realize that she is out there on a tether and needs to see me fulfilling them. I am aware that at some point my Taker will want in return...but my taker is not demanding on others as much as...antisocial. I just like to be alone sometimes, which I could achieve when she's busy and just realize that when she's home I should be giving.

The EN's he might fulfill are opposites of what I provide.

I've been pretty poor about meeting her EN's and now I get it.

I wish she would have filled out that EN worksheet. It upset me that I couldn't get her too. Would have helped a [censored] load. Her response was that if I didn't know her that well by now, we shouldn't be married then. This was...Early January.Since the OM came back she's been belligerent for the most part.

You have wisdom to insulate you.

I've got nothing but a whole lot of nothing below me. Except you guys.

FYI: I'm thinking some things through right now. Trying to figure out how to keep my brain from freezing when I try to talk to my WW next about the OM's mother and what I expect.

Monc, you need to do this from a position of ANGER! Aren't you mad at being betrayed? You should be!

YOU are the victim here. NOT her. GET that through your head, ok? You have GOT to be mad! Indignant. Skeptical. Irritated.

Any time you talk to her, you need to do it from a position of amazement that she would do this to you, ok?

OM's mother, as harsh as she may be, is not going to save your M. It may well break up the A, which is a critical first step, but in will not reconsile your M.

Monc, as much as you have floundered here, your M stand a chance. But you have got to see the true reality that is a very slim chance at best. In Plan A you have got to work on yourself and improving who you are. That way, if your M doesn't survive, you will still have become a better and more attractive person, to someone who does know how to protect against their own weakness, and has much better boundaries than does your WW.

It's the 45% of those who don't cheat, that we fail to talk about!

Get busy making yourself a better person, you cannot order your WW to stop seeing OM. That is her choice to make. But you can morph yourself into something, I believe, your WW will kick her [censored] for ever leaving.

God Bless,
Jerry

Monc,

I see two things that are working against you right now, well more than two, but two that YOU have control over...

First is the fact that you seem to have this notion that you and your wife were MEANT to be together, that you were put together by some mystical force or kismet or providence...

But the feeling of "love" is merely a response to stimulus caused by having our ENs met. You and your wife fell in love because you met each others ENs and in so doing began to foster in each other a feeling of well being and satisfaction or "happiness" that once established was present just by being together. Not romatic at all is it?

But that is how your wife fell in love with OM as well. The thing is she let it happen and did not protect your marriage or herself from his meeting those ENs, maybe because she hadn't had them met by you in quite a while but maybe just because she didn't know any better. And NOW she feels like it was something magical, kismet, providence that brought THEM together.

The second thing I see here is that you insist that if you could just reason with her, explain to her the right way that what she is doing is wrong, because your were MEANT TO BE, after all, that everything would work out for the better and things would become like they should be.

I have no idea how much you have read here on this site, but almost any thread started by a betrayed husband takes the same course most of the time. The begging and pleading and whining is followed by attempts to educate the wayward wife into doing what is right.

Eventually some guys understand that to fix what's wrong with your marriage you have to actually have a marriage and in order to have one you have to either save the one you have or get a new one with somebody else. Those that never reach that point divorce, whine about it and seldom come back here for updates since they feel that MB let them down because we couldn't help them save their marriages.

I have news for you...NOBODY here can save your marriage. You MIGHT be able to save it, but you have to know how to do it and the best way to learn that is to read more than just the answers to the questions you can dream up.

1) You can't fix anything right now as it applies to your WW
2) You have to fight the affair, not OM, not your WW, the AFFAIR.
3) WW and OM will not help you in any way, shape or form.
4) You need to have a plan of action, not a bunch of things to do as you get around to them, or things to try one at a time till you hit the magic button (there is NO magic button) but a unified, one step after another, bonafide PLAN.
5) You need to KNOW what your wife's top 3 or 4 ENs are. You can guess; you can try different things; you can identify what your own top ENs are and try to translate them into hers, but the only thing that will work is to actually identify her ENs so that YOU can start meeting them.
6) You need to stop trying to scare her, coerce her or shame her into returning to you. You also need to stop trying to educate her, teach her and pressure her into coming home.
7) You need to look deep inside yourself and identify those things that you know are love busters. (Not as hard as you might think considering the list and description of just about every one known is on this site (there are basically 6 of them) and once you have identified your own love busters you must rid yourself of them completely and totally.
8) You need to stop trying to fix her and work on improving yourself so that YOU are a better choice than OM. If every interaction with you is stressful, results in an argument or causes her to feel unhappy, she will prefer OM who makes her feel good over you.
9) You need to commit to meeting her ENs while killing love buster even though she will not respond the way you would like. It will be your own expectations that will result in your demise. You will lose hope when she doesn't react the way you WANT her to and not be able to continue the fight.
10) You need to pull the rope tight, get a grip and hang on if you expect to make the whistle. Bull riders only need to go 8 seconds. You're going to need to go at least 3 or 4 months getting NOTHING from her in return.

And THAT is just the basics of Plan A from the carrot side of the equation.

On the stick side you need to do everything you can do to put pressure on the affair...NOT on her but on the affair itself. Exposure is for THAT purpose only. It is not a bargaining chip, a negotiating tool or a threat to be wielded when you aren't getting your way the way she threatens divorce when you are interfering with her affair.

You need to protect your finances and ensure that you do not inadvertently fund the affair in any way. If she wants to live alone, let her live alone, but you do not pay her rent. You don't pay for her car, her gas, her lunch or her medical expenses as long as she continues the affair. You stand in the way of her destroying the marriage in any legal way you can without actually physically restraining her.

You keep this up for the 3 to 4 months I explained above and then evaluate whether or not you can go another 2 or 3. Then you get to think about Plan B. And in Plan B you have to move on as if you will have to be without her while not actually ending the marriage, closing the door, but not nailing it shut while offering her a way to come home.

Then, after a couple of years, you decide if you need to divorce or just live as a eunuch the rest of your life.

Saving your marriage will be the hardest thing you have ever done in your entire life. And if you win and get her back, you get to try what is even harder and that is recovery. But don't try to recover before you save it or you won't have anything to recover. Save it, then fix it. If you try to fix it in order to save if there will be nothing left to fix.



Get a PLAN and execute it step by step. Right now you're responding to whatever she does or says. Start ACTING instead of reacting if you want to save your marriage.

And just so you know, you stand little chance if you do it all just right. If you do it the way you've been going, you might as well quit while you're still alive.

Your own romantic notions stand in the way of you understanding what you need to do to save your marriage. Love ain't magic and there is no magic to fix this. Pull your hat low, your rope tight and hang on. This ride will be the toughest of your life.

Cowboy up!

Mark

She has a point...just because she will not fill out the EN questionnaire is not an excuse to not fulfill her EN's.

You have a good idea of some important ones, you have hinted at them already. You have been truthful about not being good at fulfilling them...now are you getting over that and working to fulfill them now?

What are they? Only she can say for sure, but think back about her complaints, the things she had said or complained to you about that you were not willing to do in the past, and work hard at doing those things.

These changes are not for the short term , for the duration of Plan A, but for the life of your M. Concentrate on showing distinct changes to fulfill her EN's.

And do NOT give up on fulfilling her EN's because you are getting nothing in return...that's what she is waiting for, to see if your changes are permanent or just a manipulation to get her back...to win. And she will test you at every turn. To see if you are trustworthy, to see if your changes are permanent.

You make these changes in yourself to be a good partner even if you don't stay with her. You make these changes in yourself for YOU, and...heaven forbid...for your next relationship.

Hopefully you can change enough and longlasting to show her there is a better M in the future with you.

Honesty is important to her, but this entire plan of action pisses off that portion of her.

She thinks I'm being sneaky and vindictive. She understands that I've never been vindictive but her counter is that she was never a "wh0re s1ut" either. (which I say I've never called her.)

How do I continue exposure without hitting that EN so damn hard?

I can do everything else but exposure hits one of her greatest EN's trust and honesty.

She tells me she hates me for "hurting" her love by calling the OM's mother.

I told her I understand he's a kid that is just in love and I'm not trying to hurt him...should I have said that?

I tried to explain to her my actions in calling the OM's mother. She did argue that she was not like an addict. That it was "love" and not addiction.

Do I avoid talking about our relationship altogether? It seems to only anger her more. She wants control and she feels I have the ability to embarass her.

She see's me calling family and friends and trying to shame her, you say don't try and shame her but she see's exposure as that exact action.

One of her EN's is listening to her. Irony is she wants me to listen to her telling me that she doesn't want me.

She won't talk to me about anything normal. So I can't meet the EN of communication.

She won't go out and do anything with me either.


So plan A is falling apart on me.

The ONLY thing you should be saying in your defense is "I will do whatever is necessary to save my marriage."

Trying to explain your reasoning to a WS is wasted breath. Don't be telling her about aliens, wanting to meet her EN, etc., just do it.

No relationship talk! She brings it up, you say, "Hmmm. How 'bout them Cowboys?" "Want a cookie dear?" If she insists, you say, "I don't discuss divorce. If you insist, let's let the lawyers deal with it. What's your favorite ice cream?"

The only excuse for Plan A to fall apart is if you give up.

Do not try to educate her, do not try to talk to her about what you are doing, or your relationship...just DO IT!

What other EN's can you fulfill that she will let you.

You seem to make excuses and give up too easy.

If I were her, the message I would receive from that is that you don't care about her enough to get over your own victimhood...

Offer to take her out...to a movie, cuddle, buy her flowers, rub her neck...

Yep, darn-tootin if she gets angry and thinks you are manipulating her, because you are unless you are determined to keep doing these things until you don't have arms or breath to do them. So she doesn't trust you...who's fault is that?

Make yourself trustworthy and continue to fulfill her EN and DON'T GIVE UP!

You do give up and you have proven you are not worthy to be in this M...

Sorry to be so tough, but if you REALLY want to be M, you are going to work at it...

Read "Buyers, Renter's, Freeloader's"...you are a Renter, at best...

She sees it as you trying to take away the source of her addiction. She's trying to make you the bad guy so that she doesn't have to admit she is doing something wrong.

Meet her ENs as much as she allows.
Kill all Love Busters in your own actions.
Expect nothing from her till the affair is dead and she is ready to commit to recovery.
Pressure the affair. You can't pressure her into returning home but you can put pressure on the affaair itself. Stop trying to change HER and start working on changing YOU. You are the only one you can control. Change YOUR actions and stop reacting to what she does so much...

You're 26...GTF out of the 'marriage'.

Do you want look over your shoulder for the next 50 years?

I would agree that you can't educate your ww, but I would answer a little different.

"It's not love. It's an affair and a fantasy and I will do whatever it takes to end it and save my marriage. Want a cookie?"

Keep saying it over and over and call it what it is: An affair and adultery.

Of course she does, your hurting the fantasy of the affair!!

Exposure is NOT being disshonest!!

No, it does not!!
She is twisting it to seem that way so you will stop hurting her affair. If you stop hurting it, you are enabling it!!


Wrong!!
She is mad at you becouse you are hurting her affair, DO NOT STOP EXPOSING!!!!

Call his mother again!!!!

DO IT NOW!!!






Let me try an analagy for you.

You ever see the movie "The Terminator"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator

There is a point where Reese is trying to explain to Sara Connar that the T-800/101 is completly single minded.

Kyle Reese: Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Untill her affair is DESTROYED, this is how you MUST consider your WW!!!

You can Not reason with her about the affair!

You can not bargain with her about the affair!

She will not feal pitty untill the affair is destroyed!

She will not feal remorse untill the affair is over!

And she absolutly will not stop untill the affair is destroyed.

Do everything you can to make her affair crumble, it will enfuriate her, but she will get over it. Eventually they all do, one way or the other.

Letting her face the consequences of her actions is not an LB. You aren't "hitting an EN". SHE was the one who chose to have the affair. SHE is the one who percieves that everyone thinks she's a w--sl--. They don't think she is because you TOLD them she had an affair. They think she is because she DID have an affair.

If you have cancer and I'm your doctor and tell you, is it my fault you have cancer?


She says honesty is important to her. Telling the truth is honest behavior. You are telling the truth - you are being honest.

Don't bother explaining that to her, she's using wayward illogic at the moment.
And she's not hurting you by breaking the very promises she made to you? How's that for trust and honesty? You don't give a rat's a$$ about POSOM anyway.

I assumed he was an adult but if he's old enough to have seen a PG movie, he's old enough to understand he shouldn't be messing around with another guy's wife. I wouldn't waste a moment's effort defending anything you do that might have reprocussions on him.

Why are you trying to educate her? She's incapable of rational thought.

Exposure isn't what shamed her. HER ACTIONS are what shamed her. Make this distinction. When she accuses you of this - remind her - HER CHOICES are what is shamefull here. Truth is NEVER shameful.

Monc, how many times do we have to say this:

Who gives a flip what she thinks right now? She IS NOT HERSELF! Quit talking to the alien! DO NOT TALK RELATIONSHIP! Do not even talk affair. Talk integrity. There is no way she can get around that one.

You wouldn't be telling OM's mom ANYTHING if she weren't scr&wing another man! You wouldn't be telling her family ANYTHING if she were faithful to you!

Don't you see what she is doing? She is twisting you around her finger like a string. A wimpy, limp string.

STOP IT! STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND GET MAD!

Oh, and this:
TELLING ABOUT THE AFFAIR IS BEING HONEST. Lying about cheating your H is NOT being honest. Got it?

From Terminator:
"John Connor: About what you said before - about not being able to trust me.
Cameron Phillips: Yes?
John Connor: I don't have to prove anything to anyone. Anyone - including you!"

I remember something about "Do you trust me?" as one of the movie lines.

Thanks for the inspiration.

I have an appointment now, submitted. I need to get this [censored] rolling. Done be a coward. [censored] it. I'll lose my family either way.

Wow...


I just got hit by a profound feeling. Like...zen cleansed.

I'm in the game again. I'm in the chase.

No anxiety. No matter what. And no xanax since Monday?

Nerves are calmed for now. She's not my wife, she's an alien.

She'll see warfare I'll see guardianship.

I'm calling her father tonight and telling him that if he believes in my love and my vows he will not challenge my choice and trust in my love.

I do not need to prove anything to anyone because I know what is in my heart and what I'm doing.

I'm hungry...I think I'll go get something to eat now.

I'm going to pick up the book today on my way home...[censored] getting read tonight! And hit up the place I'm moving into to check it out... Already out of the house blows. I'd have a better chance at this. Although I'd been out long before I grew my balls back.

Monc, if you don't mind answering what's your field of work?

BTW: I'm angry at her.

To anyone who say's this is vengeance or vindictive and who I care to explain my actions too.

I will tell them that is an act of the weak.

I'm am being just and truthful. Justice takes strength and I stand for it.

All others will have to trust in me.



Former Air Force. Integrity First, Service before self, Excellent in all we do.

You can say cheesy, but it'll define my effort.

Computer Technician/Sys admin.

Former airforce is the past. What do you do now?

Got it.

Is that safe? Are you going to have a huge mood swing? Not smart, if so.

Just remember that each time you get pumped up here, and then you talk to HER, you come back her with your tail between your legs. Make sure you're aware of that the next time you talk to her, ok? So it doesn't happen again. The mad needs to happen when you're with HER.

Have you talked to her mom yet? Why not? You could be asking her to help you.

Both her mom and dad talked me down...I had to go over the dad to talk to mom and he was pissed. I love him but I had too try and see if mom would help.

I love my wife more than them. So I'll risk losing them to letting her walk away because as it stands...their policy to wait is not working.

My last spurt of courage...I talked to OM's mom.

I'm not backing down anymore.


It's like watching the TV and not liking the channel and not changing it. You get the same crap show unless you get up off your [censored].

It's a lower end dosage I believe.

I'm taking it again now actually as a precaution. I need to keep calm and not have a panic attack and stop my forward motion no matter how slow or painful.

As far as mood, it doesn't affect that too much. It can make me forgetful and slower thinking, which is a downside to talking to my wife. She's quick on the wit but I'm going to just hold onto anger and not cower.

I'm realizing that there is nothing wrong with anger. I love my wife, I hate the affair.

Go Monc, go!
Go Monc, go!

Keep on this plan of action!

I'm afraid I have the same reaction... You are young, no kids, she is a cheater - not a promising start. I would seriously consider cutting my losses, and finding someone who understands how funny it is for a cheater to have honesty as a top EN.

AGG

Monc,

Former AF here as well. Tanker pilot grounded by the emotional he77 his wife dumped on him when returning home from deployment.

Don't worry about being cheesy. Tell yourself whatever you need to do to hold yourself up. I use to talk to myself in the mirror to psyche myself up.

I would also tell myself to "be Mr. Spock" to help me control my emotions.

Do what you need to. This is a crazy time.

Stay strong. Glad to see you're growing a pair.

baron, can I have your e-mail?

Send your request to the mods by clicking on "notify" below and they will send you my email. Tell them to use my email from my "other" username.

Yay Monc! Yes!

If you really want her, this is the only way to get her back. And either way, you're gaining self-respect. A lot of women are going to find that very sexy.

Monc,

Navy guy here following your situation. I couldnt agree more with the Baron.

Like you I think I wanted to fix the situation and my WW. Why couldn't she see reality?

Do you play golf? If you do, you know you have to hit down on the ball to make it go up. You let the clubhead do the work.

Same thing here, and just as tough. When you beg or ask for her love and affection and consideration the opposite happens. When you stand firm for yourself and what's right like a rock you respect yourself and gain her respect as well.

You are apparently figuring it out, and I commend you. It will be tough to maintain this frame of mind though if you are like me. I allowed myself for a long time to let my actions and feelings be controlled by her reactions to my actions, and would try to make adjustments rather than continue on the path that was best for me, regardless of her reactions.

Stay on this path of strength. No matter what the ultimate outcome, you will be far better off.

Sickwithworry,

How did it fair for you?

No...she isn't offering any apologies for the affair. Zero. She is glad she did it because she supposedly found out how little she really loved me.

I talked with my mom, who I've not talked to since the day I learned of this affair. For some reason I hadn't. She agreed that for such a woman to betray me so badly I probably shouldn't put myself through trying to save it. She'd have divorced immediately.

That exposure, if it would give me closure, should happen then. Whether it is vengeance, justice, or telling the truth she shouldn't get away with this without hurting.

And if I don't expect to see her every again or her family after we divorce I shouldn't concern myself with that worry anyhow.

Busy trying to find an appartment to stay at so exposure got it's own excuse for being put off last night.

Talked to her about that I'm doing everything I can to save this marriage and her first thought was that I was going to call the OM's mother again and she started crying.

Finally some responsibility is creeping in. She said she'll talk after she comes back to SA from Houston. I asked her what she felt when she learned that I called the OM's mother and she paused...along time. First time in a while she was speachless. I don't know what she was feeling but she definetly reacts to this.

She also feels that I'm trying to destroy her life and cause her pain. As I express that what she is doing to me is hurting me a lot she argued that I shouldn't put it on her family too.

Problem. I'm not suppose to threaten her but this seems like my only way to get her to stop moving forward with D.

What I'm going to do is get the Her needs, His needs book and give it to her and say read it.

Exposure to her family will just drive a wedge between our marriage right now. I've not been able to meet enough EN's for her to have a reason to come back once she gets over her anger.


----
Just for you naysayers, I was just about to hit send on my exposure letter. She called and we talked and I told her "I am donig everything I can to save our marriage." And she immediately thought I was talking about telling the OM's mother again.

She is scared [censored] and thinks I'm out to destroy the OM's life and as some of you express that I should have no pitty for him, that is NOT a part of my nature and in this, I must stall on going against my nature.

I told her flat out though that I will not promise not to call the OM's mother ever. And she was desperately pleading that I don't drag him down too.

If it's one thing I've learnt from hanging out on the forums here is that "nature" typically leads us VERY WRONG when it comes to breaking up As and restoring Ms.

Remember this: when it comes to breaking ups As, APPEASEMENT NEVER WORKS.

What you are choosing to do is likely going to cause this damage to your M to go on much longer before the M ends.

Monc,

You're failing to see that exposure is doing exactly what it is intended to do. It is supposed to end the affair.

She cries a little to you and you cave.

She's upset because it's working.

Don't let up. NO, it isn't going to drive a bigger wedge between you guys. How much bigger a wedge can you have when she's openly and unapologetically doing another man?

Carry on with exposure. If she gets upset, you simply repeat what you're doing and that you're "Doing everything you can to end her affair and save your marriage."

Her emotional reaction shows that what you're doing is working.

Don't let up.

I was telling her how every time I'm angry she has been out of town or distant from me. That she has no idea what this is putting me through and I'm tired of talking about the R when we could be spending time together constructively fixing things...yet divorce is the way she see's the fix and she also thinks the affair is over since they aren't screwing. Yet, they talk about a future together and such.

She has no clue.

I do. Trying to negotiate a chance to fill some EN's before exposure.

Exposure right now would devistate my chances. I spoke with my mom who is quite a wise lady and she is for exposure but said that at this point it'd simply be punishment.

Her parents have stayed out of hit...she even saw them the last couple days and they obviously said nothing to her.

Monc,

You've got mail...

The problem is my wife is arguing that she just doesn't want to be with me... And is planning to move further away from the OM actually. This is secret intel I've gathered.

So...they are having the long distance affair and she doesn't see it that way. She see's an affair as physical. And she see's me simply attacking her with "exposure" rather than forcing a wedge in the affair because the OM is not physically present.

Ok monc...as a FWW (yes at one time I was) I am gonna say this to you. Fair warning it's gonna be harsh.

If I set my mind frame to that of a WW....I SEE EASY BAIT. I see you wern't a man and would not do anything to fight for me. OM is such a more tempting package.

So until I can get rid of you. I'm gonna get what ever I can from you. And if you tick me off I can tell everyone what a nut job you are since they are my family and will believe me over you.

As long as I get what I want (fulfillment from OM) I am gonna do every under handed thing I can no matter what to secure my future and fantasies.

But your now telling everything to my family and I am gonna throw a tantrum because it is not what I want and you just won't accept defeat.
Now OM is thinking I am more trouble than it's worth because of what you did. But you'll roll over again I can still fix this if I am persistent. For now You've stopped and won't follow through I know you won't. Your a wimp have been for years.....you don't have it in you.

So monc are you gonna let the story take a turn in her favor and let her do damage control?

Honestly Monc if she gets even nuttier....cut your losses. I know it's hard...but some spouses never turn back. My XH had a revenge affair. He is married to his OW now.

Moving on is hard but it can be done. I was your age when it happened to me....now I am with a man I deeply love who loves my son and considers him his son as well. We are due to get married next year. Life after divorce is possible.

An ending is just the start of a new beginng....remember that.

What do I do with threats from her that if I do this I'll never have a chance with her?

Oh wait...she is already saying I don't.

EXACTLY!!! So WHAT exactly do you have to lose by continuing to expose? She keeps saying you're driving a "wedge" between you and her by continuing to expose, but there's ALREADY a wedge between you two big enough to make another Grand Canyon thanks to HER actions!

Keep exposing-like I said a few pages back, even if it doesn't ultimately help save your M, it will let everyone else know WHY your M really ended.

Oh my freakin' G!

Monc, have you read ANYTHING here?!

Do you trust MB or not?

How many places have you read that the WW is going to say "If you do this you'll never have a chance with me?"

Did we NOT tell you she would say this exact thing?

Why did we say that?

Because every WW says the exact same thing!

AND THEN THEY STOP THE AFFAIR!

Because you made it no more fun.

I'm sure your mother is a very wise woman, but how many marriages has she helped recover from an affair?

Dr. Harley has saved thousands. And he recommends exposure until the A has ended.

This is NOT about punishment or revenge.

It is about killing the AFFAIR!

Look Monc, when you called OM's mother and she told her son that she would cut him off if he continued to commit adultery w/ your W, I guarantee you that he told her he would end it immediately.

He then followed it up by telling your WW that IT WAS OVER!!

She begged and pleaded w/ him not to end things and promised him that she would control you.

He has probably reluctantly agreed to keep the A going as long as she keeps you under control.

If you call his mother again, I guarantee you that he will cut things off completely w/ your WW.

THIS IS WHY SHE IS SO FRIGHTENED ABOUT YOU CALLING OM'S MOM AGAIN.

Once the A is over you will have a chance to recover your M.

Your M can survive her anger, but not an on-going affair.

Yes, we know your WW doesn't get it. We know that she doesn't understand what you are really doing here.

We know that she isn't seeing your love for her or getting your true motivations.

We know. We know.

She is EXACTLY like every other wayward.

EXACTLY.

If you're waiting for her to see the truth here before you act, you might as well file for D right now.

She will not see the truth until she establishes NC and gets through w/drawals.

STOP EXPECTING HER TO UNDERSTAND.

And finish this A off by another dose of exposure.

Here's Mr. W's Do's and Don't list...


DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

And Pep's Carrot and Stick plan A...

The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick

Thank you Marsh,

Monc,

What Marsh said?

Ditto!

And ditto to Cat, too...

Mark

Monc,

Breathe. you remind me so much of myself it is nearly as painful to read your words as it was today when i re-read mine from months ago when these wise people were telling me to man up, use your anger, and stop worrying about her reactions but rather stand up for what is right.

Dude, I was right where you are a few months ago. I listened to these people...but...i didn't trust enough to act quickly enough!

You have got to stop worrying about her reactions. Kick some a$$. Be angry. Think about what you would advise a good friend who was going through the same thing you are going through.

You would tell him to NOT BE AFRAID!

Right now, i am sorry, i honestly tell you:

You would be better off to do as you are told by people with far more experience and quit thinking on your own. For people on this board who have seen this thousands of times is like a doctor prescribing an antibiotic to someone that is coughing up green junk from their lungs.

It is that predictible. Just do it!