As I've been reading here, I see some threads where the WH is clearly in an affair with a very sleazy woman.

I know that Freud identified this complex, but wondering if psychiatrists today have an explanation.

My sons' dad was attracted to very sleazy women, but married me. He wanted a wife that was a good woman, but cheated with the others.

I believe my ex married me because he wanted someone to help take care of his kids. And that was me. However, when he cheated, he picked out a loose woman that partied, abandoned her daughter and was completely inappropriate as a wife.

I would like some input from men (or women) who have any ideas about this syndrome.

Sure, quality women have enough self-worth to not be interested in a married man, whereas a sleazy woman doesn't. It takes garbage to act like garbage.

This is a loaded question and I have a lot of thoughts on this...

The first one would be that it all boils down to self esteem...and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy; a vicious cycle.

One slides into "low self-esteem" because they CHOOSE to...they CHOOSE to act sleazy, usually out of selfishness (it makes them feel good for about 3 minutes)...which leads to even GREATER low self-esteem because of their poor choices...which leads to yet another sleazy act in an attempt to make themselves feel better...which deteriorates their self-esteem even further.

And on and on it goes...

I think men might "choose" a woman like this because he knows she is a shoe-in...he will not be rejected by someone LOWER than himself (even though he is just as low as she is at the moment).

I don't call myself a "sleazy" woman and neither does my H, despite my having had an A.

Interestingly, I've never had any problem with doing "anything" with my H. We've always had a very varied and exciting SF life. I come across as a bit prudish IRL but in the bedroom (with my H) I'm a real hottie.

I say interestingly because that was not the case with the OM. I held back a great deal because I didn't feel "safe" as I do with my H.

And this is absolutely true...very well said.

I do not have low self esteem because I have never ACTED lowly. Self esteem comes from doing the RIGHT THING, all the time. Not just when one thinks others are looking.

But would you say you acted sleazily during your A?

Yes, I would say that. Of course I did. Sneaking around having an A is sleazy.

But, I'm not the definition of "a sleazy woman" as usually defined here. I'm usually called "buttoned up" and "too ladylike" by people who know me. One of my internet friends said they couldn't understand me having an A. I was "too nice".

Jen - No, I'm talking about sleazy women that one would never want to marry, introduce to family, women that have problems, drug addictions, diseases, are prostitutes, etc.

Gotcha. Then I don't think you are who we are talking about here. From what I gather, believer is talking about chronically sleazy women.

Is it not possible that someone who is not "sleazy" could get caught up in an A? Sure, their actions during the A could be defined as sleazy but some people can make mistakes...I know my actions were certainly a mistake and I regret them very much but I don't consider myself a "sleazy" person.

I hear the BS speak of the OP as POS's, their S "under affaired", the OP is low class and stupid, and just generally refer to the OP as inbred misfiguations of humans, etc. and I'm sure that sometimes this is the case but isn't it possible that occasionally a decent person could make a mistake?

Also, the OP's actions after d-day can define whether they are "sleazy" or not.

Isn't there a quote in the Bible that says something like "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?"

And, also I could add that the WS is equally as "sleazy" as the OP?
With me being a FWW, I know my actions were wrong and I am trying the best that I can but I don't think I am "sleazy".

I guess it could also depend on what your concept of "sleazy" is...

Also...FWIW, someone can look on the outside to NOT be sleazy (OW in our case), but behind closed doors acts VERY sleazy (and I do not mean in the things she does sexually...but having multiple sex partners, many of whom she has known a very short time (meeting them over the internet), etc...."whoring" herself out in order to try to "get" a man.

She is not overly attractive, dresses dorky (not sleazy or even "sexy", whatever that means)and does not come across in everyday life as a "whore".

However, from her "cummings and goings" (as a friend of hers said to me), she is very sleazy.

Does she have the "Madonna" complex? Who knows...we know nothing about her anymore, just what I learned and was told years ago. But I doubt someone like that changes...JMHO.

Again, as I said to KiwiJ...DURING the A, you were pretty sleazy though, no?

And also...I don't think this is who/what believer was talking about when she started this thread...I get the feeling that she is talking about CHRONICALLY sleazy women...women who do NOT learn from their mistakes, and who might not even think they MADE a mistake.

Women who continue to sleep around...and lower themselves day after day, not realizing that this is where their "low self esteem" comes from.

I think it is nothing but the SEX.

<I tried to edit this but the edit function ain't working...>

To clarify: I bet that many "sleazy" women don't even know that they have low self-esteem...they probably think they are just so HAWT that all of these men want them...never admitting that not many men will turn down sex from a willing woman. Or maybe they just claim to really LIKE sex, and that is why they do it.

But I have to say...I LOVE sex and I am not a sleazy woman. I'm perfectly happy getting it ONLY from my H. I don't need to whore myself out to feel better about myself.

There are many WS here that are not "sleazy" - but the acts of adultery are definitely sleazy, selfish, and devastating. I am a BS that is in early recovery. I can't call an affair anything but "sleazy". I don't expect to ever change my mind about that. I love my husband. I hate the OW and everything that she did with MY husband. This definitely clouds my judgement. I have forgiven my husband. I will never forgive the OW. She will have to get forgiveness from her husband. I am not even going to try.

Can anybody make a mistake? Sure. We're all human. But an affair isn't a "mistake" - it's done with premeditation and with full knowledge that it's wrong and hurtful - otherwise it wouldn't be hidden. Therefore, while you're in an A, you're sleazy. I don't care if the OP is highly educated, a high school dropout, or anywhere in between.

My H was acting like a real scumbag when he was having his A. He's not normally, but during the A - yes, he was a real [censored]. The OW is an even bigger piece of crap because she's twice divorced, has kids (but doesn't have custody), repeatedly makes the same mistakes, and KNOWINGLY got involved with my husband. All that aside, she's butt ugly anyway.

Also...I do not believe that a woman has to sleep with gads and gads of men in order to be considered "sleazy"...it can be only a handful of men, but it's the CIRCUMSTANCES surrounding the sex that makes her a "sleazy woman".

FWIW, anyways.

LOL!

Yup.

I've seen women who ACT like they whore themselves out - dress inappropriately, etc., but I don't know if they actually DO or not. I still thought they were sleazy. They acted like they had no self-respect.

Ladies - I'm talking about really sleazy, not just having an affair or being the OW, but sleazy as in someone a man wouldn't introduce to his family, his friends, a woman who is whorish, a tramp, someone that a man wouldn't want to raise his children...........

What is the question again? WHY do some men pick sleazy women to have affairs with??? From your first post I am not sure what the question is...

The question is why do some men prefer very sleazy women, even though they have a good wife.

Ohhhh...I see. My guess would be that they are like the women who choose the "bad boy" over a "nice" guy.

And IMHO, I think immaturity has a lot to do with choosing a sleazy woman/bad boy...

I think it's the thrill of it for the men. I use my WW as my example.

Her latest fling was as they all are with her about sex, she feels good when she is wanted, for her latest partner, for him it was a woman who would do it in his car, a woman who had no boundries, I read an email she sent him describing in great detail a group sex experiance she had, it was his big fantasy. She was willing to do anything at anytime to please.

At the end of the day he went back to his W, she never met his kids, yet she did meet his mother and it ended right after that.

I can count six men with whom this has happened with her.

She is so willing to do anything to please that eventually the men find their boundries so pushed they would not want her around friends or family, yet it is a big thrill for the first few weeks.

And I mean she will do anything anywhere for the men, just to feel wanted.

She has no selfastem

It's all about the sex. Men don't want to be married to "sleazy" women. They don't make good wives.

My WH once said he couldn't be married to OP becasue she was too "wild." We'll see. He can't seem to get away from her....

The only time my H broke Plan B was to tell me that he would NEVER marry the OW, even if I decided not to take him back...he would never introduce her to his family or our children...because he knew they would never "accept" her for the tramp that she is.

That didn't stop him from the actual A...but it DID stop him from thinking of her as marriage material.

Some men never get to this point, I guess...not sure why that is...I still attribute it to immaturity.

No men don't want to be married to sleazy women.

Yet the rush they get when they meet a woman who is willing to fufill all his dreams, and thats what they are, it can be hard for them to resist. It's the my W would never do this, wow factor.

However, at some point and I have many examples of this, the sleazy woman will push the boundries so far many men will sit back and wonder what they have gotten into.

Thats it for my WW, she does it to all her OM.

At some point the edge, the thrill, the wow factor is replaced by the my god, I can;t be around this woman, I can't have a relationship with her, she could never meet my kids or family.

I would think that if a man takes up with a sleazy woman that he knows she won't say no and thinks he can just walk away after getting some strange because she'll be all over the next guy soon enough.

This is our situation. I'm the Madonna and OW is the whore. WH said we are polar opposites of each other. I'm the church-going soccer mom. She's the 10-years younger, bar hopping, twice divorced, mom of 3 biracial kids from two different daddies.

I believe in marriage for life...she believes that relationships are disposible.

As for the sleaze factor -- I've been with one man -- my WH. She's been with many. She has toys and gadgets and dresses the part and is not afraid to flaunt it (and I have the topless photo to prove it). WH called her "passionate." She's actually desperate, psychotic and crazy.

She started the A with WH knowing full-well that he was married with kids. She let him move in with her and her kids. He will not introduce her to our kids or his parents. Never. In-laws have made it clear that they will never allow her in their home. And God help OW if in-laws see the two of them in public. MIL will probably end up in jail on assault charges.

So do I agree with the theory about A partners? Yes. WH found someone the opposite of me. He knew I would continue to be a great mom to our kids while he "plays" out his fantasy of being a rock star with the bleached blond centerfold.

I think the MLC bus hit him hard and he's balls out to live out his repressed fantasies.

The only problem is that he doesn't have the money to afford this!

Believer,

Wow responding to this post realy hit me hard when I was done.

I went through all my history with my WW and fact of it is, she is sleazy, and I married her, yet not for the reasons I listed here. Or at least I dont think so, ya know I have no idea why, I mean I ended up with two amazing DD's, that part is great, yet as why I would marry someone like that I am now more confused than ever.

I feel its because the man who gets involved with this type of woman can treat the woman just as they feel without repercussion.. do whatever ... say whatever ... basically can treat the woman like [censored] with no guilt for their actions with the woman or women involved.. no need to provide respect or care just use them as they feel like it.

I think it's more about having control than the sex by itself.

aussieswife,

that was not it for me. I tried to make a life with my WW.

I was not looking for someone I could treat anyway I wanted without repercussions. I didn't want control. I didn't treat her like s**t. I had respect for her.

There is a somewhat new series called "The Big Bang Theory."

In one episode a guy asks his friends why they hate his new girlfriend so much.

They're like "Dude, if we tell you it'll ruin things for you!"

He was not aware she talked so much until he was TOLD. It was like this:

Guy: She talks too much!

Guy2: -glass.shatter-noise- Oh my g-d you're right.

Maybe this is the case, you like someone so much, you don't notice their faults.

L2 .. you choose a woman you thought would give up her single life (sleazy or not at that time)....
that your ww chose to become sleazy is NOT YOUR FAULT

... she choose this path of sleaziness.,,, she can choose not to follow it as well.

what I think is meant here on this subject is where you KNOWINGLY engage in a relationship with a sleaze... a person who has chosen to be what she is for a life style... and there is no thought about saving her or encouraging/helping her to change .. I don't think that was you was it? You were deceived.

I'm curious about the how someone would be sleazy depending on how they act after d-day.

I had no idea what I was getting into.

Perhaps I should have been smart enough to see it though.

My FWHs FOW was what i call the definition of a sleazy woman. A woman that uses her body and/or sex to get what she wants regardless of who or what gets in the way.

She is what my FWH called a "bar fly". She is only 43 years old and she has been married 4 times (but was single during the time my H worked with her), has had 50 registered addresses with 5 other mens names also listed none of which had any of the last names she had, she hangs out in bars, flirted with everyone in the office even letting them grab her.

I have been told by others that know her that she had slept with most of the people in the workplace, she knew my H was married (he had a family portrait on his desk that she saw whenever she was in there because everyone's desks were out in the middle of a big room) yet she came on to him. She had to drive out of her way on company time to get her fixes of my H and do her flirting and such.

But as you all have said once my H gave in to her he became just as sleazy as she was and i still find that strange to this day. She lived in a very bad part of town and hung out at bars every single night and my H went right along with her.

Believer i am not sure if it is some kind of a syndrome or low self-esteem or selfishness or what. All i know is people like her are a danger to any relationship because they do not give up and they have the sleaze factor to usually get what they want.

Also what did Freud call the syndrome?

TJ/

Holy, I'm interested in why you lumped this in with your OW's "bad" qualities. I found it a little offensive, since two of my BEAUTIFUL grandchildren are biracial.

/TJ

The Madonna/Whore syndrome is well-described in acres of literature. I'm sure if you google it you'll come up with thousands of hits.

It seems fairly simple. A man makes a subconscious distinction in his mind between nice girls and 'dirty' girls. Nice girls are good women and don't really like sex. 'Dirty' girls DO like sex (in his mind). Therefore the only way he can be sure that he isn't forcing his attentions on a woman is to be with a 'dirty' girl. He can be sure that she's genuinely turned on by him, unlike the 'madonna' wife who lets him do it because it's her duty.

I believe it's thought to come about via a dysfunctional attitude to sex (embarrassing, dirty, not-nice) in his FOO, in particular via a prudish mother.

Because it's subconscious, it's a powerful motivator.

TA

Ha! This is what OWs FRIENDS told me...that she talked too much! And FWH confirmed.

<I have forgotten so much stuff...it's been so long since I have learned anything about her, but this is cracking me up!>

I know some of the responses i have read reminds of the thing my mom used to say to me and i say to my girls which is guys "date" girls who do, but they "marry" girls who don't.

I would think that it is not necessarily that the wife is a prude because i would have to say that i am like MF in that i have always tried to make sure it isn't the same old same old in the bedroom KWIM .

So i do wonder what the attraction is for males when it comes to this kind of woman??????

Well B,
I read this and all the comments.. I am not sure exactly how to answer it.

You saw the pics of the PQ so you know what she looks like, and you know about her lifestyle....
She is sleazy, trampy, a train wreak waiting to happen, a damsel in constant distress, mentally ill, and someone who will never have a good life.

Yet Flick 'loved' her, wanted to marry her, told me so in fact. He said he could see a future with her and while she had told him she would never marry again he thought she would change her mind for him.

His family never met her, at first they were on his case about leaving me, but I know from comments later, they would have met her because family is family and they didnt want to lose him

SF was never the issue for us BTW, stillisnt. The only real comment about her and SF was it was the only thing she had going for her, and I'm better.

Dunno if'n it's been commented on, but whatabout if you are BOTH?

Does it mean he was just plain ol'dain-bramaged?

Cos, VD is a prude about stuff I think is fun and Lord knows she can neither cook nor clean.

And talk about dumbing down...OI!

Yes, Lil, PQ definately qualified for sleazy in my book. And it was not so much her looks, but the pictures of her giving people the finger, humping other women, etc. Sorry to Flick, but she was the epitome of sleazy to me - unable to take care of herself, her kids, but very involved with saving possums, and boinking men. YUCK.

Thank goodness he came into his right mind and didn't have any permanent (kids) attachments to her. She would have made his life HELL and you probably would have ended up raising the child.

My definition of sleazy is low class, attention seeking, disease or drug ridden, nasty, etc. But somehow, very nice men fall for these women all of the time.

Whyever would anyone WANT to save a possum?

They call 'em speed bumps here.

They are a noxious pest here. You are not allowed to keep them AT ALL.

I agree...they are overgrown rats. Even their babies are ugly.

(and that's from the gal that loves all babies)

Well, being from the land of fruits and nuts, I love possums. But caring for possums when you aren't caring for your own children is way out there.

Do you think it's because animals are more self sufficient than human babies? I just can't understand taking care of animals, but letting your own children go. It's completely alien to me.

Well, Verve, I am an animal lover, so caring for an animal makes perfect sense to me. However, caring for an animal when you can't take care of yourself or your children is very sick behavior.

The 1st OW in my story was like this, except she came from the high society crowd (through marriage). She still acted like a slut, drank like a fish and was a horrible mother. Even when she was with my DH, he said that at parties or while they were out, she flirted with EVERYONE... dancing with other men AND other women.

You can take the woman out of slutsville but you can't take the slut out of the woman.

Awwww....I think the babies are just aDORable!!!

It's the adults that are scary and ugly and like the R.O.U.S.'s on the Princess Bride, which indeed.....they are!!!

Charlotte

That's what I meant, but I suppose it came out wrong. I can understand having a whole zoo of animals if you want to (and can) take care of them, but your children should come first.

:twobyfour:

You have to keep in mind that the American Opossum and the NZ Possum are two different species of animal.

I have never seen a possum, we don't seem to have any in Calgary, although we do have a subdivision called Slutsville.

American Opossum

NZ Possum

'I have never seen a possum, we don't seem to have any in Calgary, although we do have a subdivision called Slutsville.'

LOL, you still have the touch, Lie2Me......................

The possum's rank odour is due to its large musk glands located behind each ear.

I told Lil that I knew what PQ smelled like. Ew, is all I have to say. ;-)

Possums are scary, though. A couple years ago, I was working night shift and I was outside, sitting on the porch, talking on the phone to my supervisor, when I heard a hissing sound. I looked down and there was a possum at the bottom of the steps (my feet were on the top step and there were four of them - steps that is), frozen with its teeth bared. I don't think I've moved that fast in years! I screamed (totally girly, I laughed at myself later), jumped up, and ran inside. They have some nasty teeth and I've always heard that they were mean animals.

I'll stay away from possums, thank you very much.

Wow, you guys took that possum and ran over it, I mean ran with it

OMG! I just thought of the most AWESOME RC thing I could do which would also help with a trigger...
Possum shooting!

And possum fur is going for $25kg at the moment.

OMG LIL, not possum shooting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and why not???

I've never heard of anyone going possum shooting. I've heard of shooting squirrel, raccoons, and other large game, but not possums. They are usually just roadkill.

I guess you could make a game of seeing how many possums you can run over.

Oh, trust me, I do

OMG, Lil, you missed your shooting session here, and now you are after those poor little rats.

*snicker*

I can see you out looking SPECIFICALLY for Possum Queens to run over.

They're noxitous pests!
The govt spends millions each year on eradication programmes.
They are a blight on the environment, spread TB, hurt the agricultural industry, scare the willies out of townies who come visit, and that was before PQ made my DH into the callous !@#^#$%# that had no problem with picking up fresh roadkill to check for babies to give to her while on OUR FAMILY HOLIDAY

Die, Possum, DIE!!!

Such anger toward those poor, smelly, cute little possums.

You ought to be ashamed!!!

Yep, you are right about roadkill. Often the mama will be run over, but the babies are alive in her pouch.

And ANYWAY, didn't the PQ's possum die?

Oh geez....Spartan and I lived in a beachhouse when we were first married, and possum lived in the bushes that were on the wall. We used to feed them all the time. They have very poor eyesight and one time, a baby wandered into our house! She eventually found her way back outside.

Did you know that they're the only North American marsupial?

Yes, the only North American marsupial. That counts for something.

geeze you guys, your opposum is only distantly related to our possum. Kinda like a polar bear is related to a grizzly.

PQ's possum died but I think she had another judging from the pics I saw the other day.
*dodging Believers slap for looking*

Ewww, you are still looking at her Bebo? What is up with THAT????

no, her FB, she locked me out of bebo when we all bagged her here.

Why???
was having a really bad few days and did what I always do then.

Check, snoop, watch.

And looking at something ugly.

Wow, your husband seems like he is all into recovery. The OW was sleazy. Why are you still concerned about her?

Here ya go ladies...
Potted Possum

And of course there is always this...



Sure, it says squirrel, but I bet it would work with possum too!

Mrs. W

I have heard of "possy-yum, a pet food, but as far as your suggstions... ew

I've never thought Madonna was attractive even way back before she married Sean Penn. She's just a pole dancer that sings - and there is nothing attractive about pole dancing.

LOL, Piojitos................

Mrs. W got me wondering about recipes and I found this on the internet -

Australian Possum
Ridgey Didge Possum Roll
Ingredients:
1 possum
5 tbs balsamic vinegar
5 onions
2 cloves garlic
5 carrots
1 stalk celery
2 turnips
3 tomatoes
2 tbs cold pressed olive oil
1 clump italian parsley
1 tbs fresh rosemary
5 bay leaves
3 cloves
2 tbs Vegemite
1 damper (like a hot dog roll)
Note: As mentioned previously, there is a species of possum which is protected in Australia. They
cannot be trapped, shot or hunted. If you run over an Australian possum, and it is still alive, call
WIRES, which protects Australia's native fauna.
If it's dead, then this recipe may serve a purpose.
First, skin the possum, checking first for lice, myxomitosis, and living young in the pouch.Separate
legs from breast. Discard head, neck, tail and claws. If you wish, hold the offal for thanksgiving
stuffing. Then cut the possum into long sringy pieces.


Marinate overnight in vinegar, rosemary, bay leaf, clove, garlic & oil mixture.
Make the roll: split the damper, and spread vegemite on each side. Put aside.
Chop the carrot, turnip and tomato into small pieces, then cook with the rest of the ingredients,
and stew in a pot, adding a chicken stock cube for seasoning. Dip the possum pieces in the pot,
then barbecue for 20 minutes (or until cooked to personal taste).
To serve: like a hot dog, use the damper & vegemite roll to surround pieces of possum.
Serve with chips, salad and beer.
Recipe by Holly and Chloe Bennett, Cootamundra, Australia
Donated by Pat Woolley

IDK, but I think the OW is even more sleazy after d day, say if the wife calls,crying, her tellin her she would like to try to keep her family together and to please stay away from her husband. And OW says she will. SHe NOW knows that the wife truly loves her WH and a little boy is counting on his parents taking a shot at working it out. She already knew about the wife and son but believed WH lies.

Then OW calls WH and says "your [censored] wife called screaming and swearing and calling me names(lies). Dont ever talk to me again."

My WH believed her and not me. It devastated me.

IDK but if I did get to the point where I cheated with a married man. The wife calling me crying would be the reality kick in the head for me. And I would tell him he needs to go and take care of his family and stay the hell away from me. I couldnt live with the guilt of that.

Yeah, you would think so, stillhere, you really would. BTDT and OW told her mom and others that I was crazy and irrational. I mean, YEAH, I was, but I had reason....
And SHE was part of it! *grumble grumble*

B - that recipe sounds um...pretty unappetizing?

That's because she forgot the curry powder. The British found out long ago that, if you put curry powder in it, you can make them eat ANYthing. After all, 1.3 billion Indians can't all be wrong.

Oh ... and a few million drunken Scotsmen on a Friday night.

:twobyfour: To all the sleazy women and OW!
:twobyfour: To all the sleazy men who go with sleazy OW!

I came soo close to squirting Diet Mtn. Dew out of my nose! And, that would have HURT!!!

I know. It's the extra caffeine.

You what I found the most disturbing about that clip? It was the way she talked about the squirrels "cute little buns" as she dropped it into the boiling water.....