Marriage Builders
Posted By: insecurehusband what to do? - 03/27/09 07:34 AM
my wife has a myspace page, recently i found out she has a hi5 and a classmates profile too, she hasnt been on her hi5 in awhile, last time i checked. but she recently updated her classmates one and she told me that shes not there to meet people yet she kept the part in her interests section as meeting new people, does anyone else find that odd? also weve started going to therapy because we both have cheated on each other so we have trust issues and insecurities, the therapist gave us a good idea that we agreed on, no friends of the opposite sex, at least until we can resolve the trust and insecurity. for a while neither of us got rid of friends, then during a fight my wife deleted most of the guys off her myspace, then deleted all the chicks but herself and my cousin from mine, i dont have a problem with it because i know we should live up to that promise, one of the guys on my wifes page supposedly is gay so feeling bad i apologized to him and said he could readd her, days went by and he didnt, i told my wife about it and so she readded him, along with two other guys. now she wont delete those guys plus the other ones from her list, even though i did and i dont mind, she claims im trying to control her and thats why she is fighting me with deleting them. i think she is fighting for them, which isnt helping the trust and insecurity i feel, am i just paranoid or do i have a valid point when i say she needs to delete these guys? ps sorry this is so long, i needed to vent
oh yeah she also has like 5 aol accounts, she does this soldiers angels thing too and because a few of the males shes adopted have hit on her, even after she was married to me and they knew that, she said she wont adopt males anymore, yet the first person she adopts is a guy and she sees no problem with that. also one of the guys on her page i sent him a message saying he should pay more attention to his wife, than mine, supposedly hes married. he called me lame to my wife then i sent him another message saying if he was going to talk sh*t he can say that to my face, he threatened me to i threatened him back. which i know i probably shouldnt of done, then he has the nerve to bad mouth my wife and Is' sex life, and she has no problem with what hes said to me, yet shes mad that i said the stuff to him. it seems to me that shes taking his side.
Posted By: MicheleG Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 11:58 AM
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also weve started going to therapy because we both have cheated on each other so we have trust issues and insecurities, the therapist gave us a good idea that we agreed on, no friends of the opposite sex, at least until we can resolve the trust and insecurity.


You both have alot of work to do. Anytime you have friends of the opposite sex you are asking for problems. It seems both of you are vulnerable to this issue and for that reason BOTH of you should get off of the online profiling forums. They are nothing but trouble for M couples.

Read THIS forum. Learn the principles. Learn about the policies that all M people should practice. Read read read. Buy the book His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters and BOTH of you read them cover to cover.

And if you can, call the Harleys. They are the owners of this site and are THE EXPERTS. They will help you and your W deal with your past infidelities and a way to deal with your future R. They phone counsel.

At this time you and your W need to decide if your M is your priority.
Posted By: insecurehusband Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 12:19 PM
i mentioned that to her and at one point she agreed but then when i mention it to her agian she gets mad, she thinks im trying to control her by telling her who she can have as friends. but thats not it at all.
Posted By: MicheleG Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 01:22 PM
This is one of the policies that should be implemented in all M's. It is critical. It ensures that both S's are happy in the decisions that are made within the relationship.

Most people do not inherently understand what is nescessary to be in a satisfying, long term R. Nobody has ever taught us. We get M and are expected to get by and live happily ever after based on our "love" for our S. Doesn't happen. Love can be lost because of our behaviors. And it usually is. So we have to prevent that love loss. Both people are resposible for the state of the M. Both need to learn.

How you present your issues can make a big difference in her taking them into consideration. Never demand, respectfully request. Explain that when she does X you feel Y.

As I said before, read the policies and articles here. Look at the top of the page for links. Have her read the stuff too. BOTH of you need to work on this.


Quote
The Policy of Joint Agreement
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html


The Policy of Joint Agreement

When in the state of Intimacy, both spouses want the other to be happy, and neither spouse wants to see the other hurt. In the state of Conflict, both spouses want to be happy and neither wants to see themselves hurt. Actually, both objectives are important, and that's why I created a negotiating rule to achieve those important objectives regardless of the state of mind spouses happen to be in. I call it the Policy of Joint Agreement -- it takes the best from the advice of both our Giver and our Taker.

The Policy of Joint Agreement also avoids the worst advice of our Giver and Taker. In the state of Intimacy, we are encouraged by our Giver to sacrifice our own happiness so that the other person can be happy. In the state of Conflict, we are encouraged by our Taker to let our spouses sacrifice so that we can be happy. Neither of these are worthy objectives because in both cases someone gets hurt.

In marriage, your interests and your spouses interests should be considered simultaneously. One of you should not suffer for the benefit of the other, even willingly, because when either of you suffer, one is gaining at the other's expense. If you both care about each other, you will not let the other suffer so that you can have what you want. When you are willing to let the other sacrifice for you, you are momentarily lapsing into a state of selfishness that must somehow be corrected before damage is done. The Policy of Joint Agreement provides that correction.

Before I tell you what the Policy of Joint Agreement is, I want to warn you that when you read it for the first time you may think I'm crazy to be suggesting such a rule. But the more you think about it, and the more you follow it in your marriage, the more you will recognize it as the breakthrough you need in the logjam that the Giver and Taker create in marriage.


The Policy of Joint Agreement
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse
When you follow this policy, your Giver likes the part of it that requires your spouse to be in enthusiastic agreement about every decision you make, and your Taker likes the part that requires you to be in enthusiastic agreement. But the Giver will think that you're being selfish when you don't do whatever it takes to make your spouse happy, and your Taker will think you are just plain dumb to let your spouse's lack of "enthusiasm" prevent you from doing whatever makes you happy. Yet, if you follow this rule, it will prevent you from giving so much that it hurts you, or taking so much that you hurt your spouse. It forces you into the balance you need in marriage to create and sustain a compatible lifestyle and the feeling of love.

This rule teaches couples to become thoughtful and sensitive to each other's feelings when they don't feel like it. If both spouses follow this policy, they avoid all the Love Busters because they won't mutually agree to anything that hurts one of them. Demands, disrespect and anger are eliminated because even negotiating strategy must be mutually agreed to, and no one likes to be the recipient of abuse. Annoying behavior is eliminated because if one spouse finds any behavior or activity of the other annoying, according to the policy, it cannot be done. It even eliminates dishonesty, because a lie is certainly not something that you would agree to enthusiastically. It helps plug up the holes in the sieve of the Love Bank that cause most couples to drift into loveless incompatibility.

It also forces couples to negotiate fairly. The Policy itself prevents either spouse from making unilateral decisions about anything, so they must discuss every decision they make before action can be taken. Demands are out of the question, because they are not made to create enthusiastic agreement -- they are made to force one spouse to lose so that the other can gain. The same can be said for Disrespectful Judgments and Angry Outbursts. What role do any of those Love Busters have in a discussion where the goal is enthusiastic agreement? In their place, each spouse learns to make requests and express opinions, showing respect for the other spouse's opinions. The sheer folly and stupidity of demands, disrespect and anger are vividly demonstrated when a mutually enthusiastic agreement is your goal.

Successful negotiation in marriage creates a solution to every problem that benefits both spouses and doesn't hurt either of them. The Policy of Joint Agreement forces a couple to find those solutions. None of the states of mind in marriage encourage them to do that, so they need this rule to override their instincts that prevent successful negotiation.

The Policy of Joint Agreement encourages couples to consider each other's happiness as equally important. They are a team and both should try to help each other and avoid hurting each other. It just makes good sense. Why should one spouse consider their own interests so important that he or she can run roughshod over the interests of the other? It's a formula for marital disaster, and yet some of the most well-intentioned couples do it from their honeymoon on.

When I first see a couple in marital crisis, they are usually very incompatible. They are living their lives as if the other hardly exists -- making thoughtless decisions regularly because they don't care how the other feels. As a result, when I introduce The Policy of Joint Agreement, it seems almost impossible to follow. They have created a way of life that is based on so many inconsiderate habits that it seems the policy would force them to stop all their activity -- so much of what they do is thoughtless and insensitive.

But once they start to follow the policy, it becomes easier and easier to come to an agreement. As they throw out their thoughtless habits and activities one by one, they replace them with habits and activities that take each other's feelings into account. That's what compatibility is all about -- building a way of life that is comfortable for both spouses. When they create a lifestyle that they each enjoy and appreciate, they build compatibility into their marriages.

But the most powerful incentive for following this policy is that it helps sustain the feeling of love. Once the Policy of Joint Agreement is acted upon, it helps insulate a couple from many of the destructive forces that are ruining marriages. And it helps couples learn to meet each other's needs in ways that are mutually fulfilling and enjoyable. Spouses that follow this policy and meet each other's needs fall in love and stay in love with each other.

As I already mentioned, negotiation is very tough in marriage because each state of mind, Intimacy, Conflict and Withdrawal, tends to discourage negotiation. But the Policy of Joint Agreement can help us override our instincts, and enable us to negotiate fairly regardless of our state of mind. That's because "enthusiastic" agreement is the goal, as opposed to "reluctant" agreement.

In the state of Intimacy, our Giver would agree to almost anything if it would make our spouse happy. But it would not be an enthusiastic agreement -- it would be a self-sacrificing, suffering-servant kind of agreement. Only our Taker is capable of "enthusiastic" agreements, because it's only enthusiastic about something that's in our own best interest. If you and your spouse are in enthusiastic agreement, it means that both of your Takers agree that the decision is in your best interests. Those are the agreements that are most likely to make you both happy.

In this short introduction to the Policy of Joint Agreement, I have presented a broad panorama of what it is, why it's so important in marriage, and how you should apply it in your marriage. But there are many details I've left out of this introduction that I describe more completely in the Q&A section of this web site. To make it easier to find these columns and answer some of the questions you might have at this very moment, I will describe some of those that are most relevant to the subject, negotiating with the Policy of Joint Agreement.

Q&A Columns Regarding the
Policy of Joint Agreement

All marital conflicts are opportunities to negotiate. And when done correctly, with the Policy of Joint Agreement, most marital problems are relatively easy to solve. But I have received many letters wondering if this policy is reasonable. Can a husband and wife be expected to agree on everything? And enthusiastically? So I posted the column, Incompatibility is at the core of marital conflict. How to Survive Incompatibility is a Q&A column I've posted that introduces the problem of incompatibility, and offers the Policy of Joint Agreement as a general solution. The problem of incompatibility and the solution are readdressed in Following the Policy of Joint Agreement When You're VERY Incompatible.

What happens when the Policy of Joint Agreement is not followed in marriage? Disaster! And the disaster is seen in many forms. One of its most common forms is a Love Buster I have already introduced to you, annoying behavior. To refresh your memory, an annoying behavior is any habit or activity that one spouse does that bothers the other spouse. It may not seem like much of a disaster when annoying behavior is in its early stages, but there are many examples of it growing into ugly monsters. How to Overcome Annoying Behavior describes the seriousness of the problem and offers the Policy of Joint Agreement as the only reasonable solution.

One of annoying behavior's ugly monsters, drug and alcohol addiction, clearly creates marital disaster. If every couple followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, there would be very few alcoholic spouses. But without that rule, alcohol and drugs can sure wreck a marriage. What to Do with an Alcoholic Spouse is a column that addresses this common problem that has plagued marriages for thousands of years.

Negotiation assumes that two people are willing to resolve a conflict. But in many marriages, one spouse is not willing to negotiate, or follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, particularly when the marriage is in serious trouble. A commonly asked question is, how can one spouse negotiate when the other spouse is not interested? I have posted two Q&A columns on the subject: Can a Marriage Be Saved by One Spouse (Part_1), and Can a Marriage Be Saved by One Spouse (Part 2).

Having Trouble with the Policy of Joint Agreement? In this column I not only discuss the Policy of Joint Agreement, but I also describe Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation, which is my 10th and final Basic Concept,


Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation




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Posted By: baron_richtofen Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 02:37 PM
You guys are a mess.

But you must accept that you can't change her in any way. You can only change yourself.

I would snoop on her. Put a keylogger on your computer to get the passwords to her accounts and see if she's having an affair.

Do you guys have kids?

You guys are on the verge of a breakdown and the biggest problem you BOTH have is the inability to draw clear boundaries to protect the marriage.

Friends of the opposite sex is a big red flag and dangerous territory. Those friends should be friends of the couple and not of just one or the other.

Any kids?
Posted By: insecurehusband Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 02:50 PM
yeah but the keylogger id have to download and she could easily find it, which would start a whole nother fight and shed start with the trust and spy thing agian. she has 3 kids from previous relationships. well one of the guys i apologized to and hes messaged me back after that, i doubt well be friends but it doesnt bother me. the one im most worried about is a compelete jack@$$ and he is vain and self centered, which my wife agreed on, which i dont understand why shed want someone like that in her life.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 03:04 PM
Try webwatcher.com. You can't find it on the computer at all once it is downloaded. It doesn't show in programs, files, or documents.
Posted By: baron_richtofen Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 04:38 PM
I used actualkeylogger which is free. You can hide it, but have to disable your anti-virus to get it to run OR you can configure the anti-virus to let it run in the background.

It is invisible unless you enter a certain set of keys on the keyboard and I think you have to enter a password once that comes up to access it. It's been a while since I've used it.

Was your marriage the result of an affair?

We need more background on you to understand your situation. Are all her kids from different men?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 04:54 PM
How many different fathers are there? Who cheated first?
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: what to do? - 03/27/09 05:49 PM
How many years have you been M'd?

Do you have any kids?

Posted By: insecurehusband Re: what to do? - 04/05/09 06:42 AM
no we actually met online, all three kids have different fathers and i cheated first. weve been married 3 yrs this november. we do not have kids together, we are trying though.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: what to do? - 04/05/09 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by insecurehusband
yeah but the keylogger id have to download and she could easily find it, which would start a whole nother fight and shed start with the trust and spy thing agian. she has 3 kids from previous relationships. well one of the guys i apologized to and hes messaged me back after that, i doubt well be friends but it doesnt bother me. the one im most worried about is a compelete jack@$$ and he is vain and self centered, which my wife agreed on, which i dont understand why shed want someone like that in her life.

How old are you kids?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: what to do? - 04/05/09 03:59 PM
Also, you can download a keylogger on her computer so she won't find it. Do you each have your own computers? If so, you can install eblaster by downloading it to your computer, copying it to a memory stick and it will take you under 5 minutes to install on her computer. It would email - invisibly - the reports to your designated email address. [set up a new one in yahoo or gmail that she doesnt know about]

Eblaster costs about $100 but it is invisible, easy to use and works like a charm. www.spectorpro.com
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: what to do? - 04/05/09 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by insecurehusband
no we actually met online, all three kids have different fathers and i cheated first. weve been married 3 yrs this november. we do not have kids together, we are trying though.

Is this where she met her other baby daddies? Has she been married before?
Posted By: Lady_Clueless Re: what to do? - 04/05/09 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by insecurehusband
no we actually met online, all three kids have different fathers and i cheated first. weve been married 3 yrs this november. we do not have kids together, we are trying though.

WHY are you trying to have a baby when your marriage is in such a mess? Please do not bring an innocent child into this disaster!

From the things you've described, you both sound incredibly immature.

Your wife has 3 kids by 3 different men. Was she married to any of the men? I would NOT take a chance of having a baby with this woman. The way things look right now, you run the risk of divorce and a baby would only tie you to this woman while she collects child support from you while she collects men on the internet.

I'm sorry to say this, but I think you need to get your own act together, even if it means divorce, and let her do her thing...because you cannot MAKE her do anything.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: what to do? - 04/05/09 05:09 PM
Gotta agree with lady clueless. Your wife doesn't seem to have boundaries. 3 kids, 3 different fathers? You absolutely don't want to be #4. Don't do this to yourself or your wife.

Do you support her 3 children financially? If you do, do you have separate bank accounts? Is she a SAHM?
Posted By: insecurehusband Re: what to do? - 04/23/09 12:30 PM
THE LATEST:

well i got my wifes myspace password, not from her of course, and looked through her page. there wasnt anything on there i should be concerned with, a small lie but it was nothing. i looked on her email accounts and found a couple emails she shouldnt of had, i deleted them so she doesnt have them anymore, im not too mad about them though because ive had emails i shouldnt of had too and shes found out and deleted them, so far we are doing good, planning on going on a vacation when i get back, doing a weekend getaway just us two, and talking about going to counceling and what we need to do. so as of right now things are just fine. yay me!!
Posted By: barbiecat Re: what to do? - 04/23/09 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by insecurehusband
no we actually met online, all three kids have different fathers and i cheated first. weve been married 3 yrs this november. we do not have kids together, we are trying though.

Are you kidding? STOP. There are 3 poor kids already at the mercy of this mess, there is no plan or resolution to end this mess. Why would you risk bringing another child into this situation? It is NOT a puppy, that you can take to pund when you tire of it-- it is a human being.

It sounds to me like there only selfish thinking going here. That and/or immaturity.



Posted By: catperson Re: what to do? - 04/23/09 02:23 PM
How about you save your money on counseling, and spend it on a couple phone calls to the Harleys, instead? They will cut through the crap the counselor will wade through, and teach you both how to grow up and start acting responsibly for both of you as well as those 3 kids.

Your wife has some serious issues if she either can't figure out how to use birth control with guys she's obviously not going to stay with, or thinks it's ok to have kids without a father, or can't keep herself off the chat rooms in search of yet another thrill.

Translation: You're not fun enough any more. She is an affair waiting to happen, because she believes in her own happiness over anyone else's.

Talk to the Harleys. Do NOT leave out her past, as well as the fact that neither of you understand the meaning of a monogamous marriage.
Posted By: Gamma Re: what to do? - 04/23/09 04:03 PM
IH,

Imagine you have a son and he is married to a woman who has three children by different men, what would you advise him to do?

At the very least you have 3 men who have a really good reason to re-enter your wifes life and cause genuine pain for you.

God Bless
NJ
Posted By: insecurehusband Re: what to do? - 04/24/09 11:49 AM
***edit***
Posted By: Dobie Re: what to do? - 04/24/09 12:05 PM
Apparently doing it your own way works just fine for you then. Good luck with that.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: what to do? - 04/24/09 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by insecurehusband
***edit***
faint faint faint


Posted By: Maverick_mb Re: what to do? - 04/24/09 12:18 PM
Keep posts respectful or this thread will be locked!

Thank you.
Posted By: Maverick_mb Re: what to do? - 04/24/09 12:33 PM
Upon further thought, I am locking this thread.
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