I won't go on till I know I've got somebody. Was told there are some on this board w/experience with cutting.

My cousin's daughter is a cutter. Arms pretty scarred.

She is a very intelligent girl and almost gifted but has dropped out of a very exclusive private high school and getting a GED.

My cousin says she cuts herself when she is stressed, angry or whatever problem she feels she is facing.

At the beginning my cousin thought she was doing it for attention. It is a cry for help and not something to ignore.

You need professional help for this. Call a hotline and find someone in your area that specializes in this.

OH, I'm on the phone too. School's out in an hour & I'm getting my ducks in rows.

Thank you for your post.

here are some good articles.
http://health.discovery.com/centers/teen/cutters/cutters.html

I know a bit about cutting, I did that for a while in jr. high and had a friend that did it a lot in high school. It can be very intense. And needs to be handled with care. It just depends on the situation of why she is doing it for your best way to handle it. But that's just my opinion. But I can tell you that she can snap out of it! I did, and my friend did. It is an outlet, a way to get out some of the stress, especially when you feel you have no one you can talk to.

Got a crisis team coming out when she gets home from school. They're good, have been here before.

Good luck Julie, I hope everything works out for you and your daughter. It is a dangerous situation to be in. I wish you both all the best.

This is a very stressful thing for you to be going through.
I'm so sorry

Very sorry to hear about this Julie. I don't have experience with this but wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and your children. Sounds like you have a good jump on developing a plan. Best of luck.

Mindshare

Thanks. This is unreal.

Trying to determine if I keep DS/9 home, let him know what's going on, that we are a family & will help DD thru this (as I've done in the (recent) past) or have STBXH pick him up so he doesn't have to deal with it/be afraid.

Do you think he can handle it? Or do you think it might freak him out? It could help him to know what it is and not to get into it or how to help someone that might be going through it. It depends on what you think your son can handle.

I think he can handle it. He was kept abreast of everything else going on w/her of late, so I don't know why I'd banish him now. I feel bad for him, and it does scare him, but this is us now...

Keep the entire family in the loop

Why? So far, none of the family knows, except for a (once) very trusted aunt. Her reply: "well you're so hard on her, Julie" (DD was hospitalized last month for depression/anger/2 "empty" suicidal statements.)

My rest of my family is...well, not equipped to be supportive. I don't think.

I don't think the entire family needs to know, but her brother could be a good support for her. Since you have kept him in the loop with everything else. Maybe there are support groups for that kind of thing in your area, so she can talk to someone who has been through it. Other than the hospitalization has she ever seen a counselor? How old is your Daughter if you don't mind me asking?

I'm definitely interested in Pep's reasoning - it's a tough one to grasp without some explanation.

She's got a new IC, will be seeing her again on Monday along w/psychiatrist. She's 13.

Well I can honestly say that telling my entire family did not help my situation, but it might have helped in my friend's situation. It all just depends on the situation.

I have a friend that is 13 and she comes to me a lot when she needs advice. That is a very vulnerable age and needs caution. I wish you the best and really hope that everything works out well.

Jul,
Sorry to hear about your situation. I read a really good book "Revivng Ophelia" - a book about teenage girls. The author Mary Pipher writes about cutting and why girls do it. She has done research on teenage girls. I read it years ago in preparation for teenage years. My daughter is now 14. I would suggest you reading it.

GG

I would not suggest involving the 9 year old. He is too young to understand and the girl might feel like she is being ganged up on.

Not to be unkind because I've lived through loved ones acting out but you appear to be stressed yourself. You do not need more drama at this point. Take everything down a few notches.

Breath.

Sorry, I missed your response to me.
Just my thoughts (free and free to ignore )

Well, the 9 year old is not dumb. He's aware SOMETHING is wrong and his family is unhappy. Right?
Kids are worse off when they experience family tension without knowing that they are not the cause.

The sibling who is acting out is often the center of attention and becomes the catalyst for the family dynamics. Decisions are made based upon what is going on with the acting out child. (This happened to our family) Child A is having a good day so the family is having a good day. Child A is having a bad day so the family is having a bad day. Child B is aware they must not rock the boat because their sibling causes so much tension in the family. Child B becomes quiet and introverted and non complaining.

I think it's a lousy dynamic for Child B to be left out. All this effects him too. But unless he knows what's going on, he may think the tension and unhappiness is all his fault. The acting out child usually blames everyone else. The other child usually blames his/her self.

But, that's my opinion only.

When our son was going psycho - we'd hurry his younger sister off to the neighbor ... sometimes for HOURS while we had her brother admitted or took him to the ER .... and she felt isolated and terrified and obligated not to cause a ruckus by complaining about her situation. It was wrong of us and I now see it as an error we made.

Please be careful with your child. You are taking "amature hour" advice, including mine.

Remember you might be geting advice from the "pros" here that mock self esteem--
...so take care as to who you listen to. I am glad you have a team for help.
This (cutting, branding, asphyxiation - eating disorders)type of behavior is directly linked to esteem, IMEO- and it is a real as can be to your child. As real as the flu or a broken bone.

No, I do not believe you need to tell anyone outside of your nuclear family. Teens and tweens often feel like they have no control-- and if they feel that even this bit of privacy is put out-- it may upset her. Use extreeme caution.

She does not need this on a school record- IMHO

A real good experienced Pediatrician, Medical Doctor or Psychiatrist or Psychologist is going to have the best advice for you

Oh my gosh! I was so upset I forgot to add

I am praying for you.

I agree with Pepperband. Keeping the boy involved will keep him involved in what is going on with the family. And 9 is not that far from 13 and he may need help one day, and this way he knows that he'll have his family to count on.

I was in the same situation with Child A and Child B. I was Child B and I didn't get my chance to start being a normal kid until my brother moved out, and by that time I had a lot of catching up to do if you know what I mean.

But your daughter may be upset or annoyed by everything, but she's young and she will get over it. And later she will probably even thank you for it. I know I did several years after it was all said and done, but I was finally able to think clearly after my mom sent me away to be with my grandparents for the summer.

But you know your family best. I hope that everything went as well as can be expected yesterday. Keep us up to date.

This is an interesting statement.




We have the opposite issue. Our quiet one is the one who has done the cutting. Her complaint was the other kids cause they would act out got all the attention, while she did not.

We got her into counseling and it seems to be going well for the most part.

Frustrating part is sometimes it feels like the person doint the cutting holds us hostage because if we don't allow her to do something or we do something she disagrees with then she may cut.

We did not tell the other kids in the family as she did not want them to know. We did let her know that at some time we might need to bring them in.

We have changed some family dynamics that seem to be helping with this.

My prayers for you and your family.

My son had it. He was diagnosed with depression and is on anti-D's.

He says it was because he didn't know how to deal with his frustration. And that he didn't want to hurt anyone else.

The anti-d's made a huge difference. They took the edge off and allowed him to start on his journey of self-actualization.

One thing I can say is that I really believe that the meds help with the brain chemistry. I think it helps to open the neural pathways and activate the receptors in the brain.

I'm hoping for the best for your DD and family.

(((hugs)))

Never considered it from this perspective. Good Luck to you.

DITTO

???


My own thoughts as far as the school - to a certain extent it could depend on the school and your rapport (or lack of it) with them. But in most cases, I think a school should be made aware of any very serious issues that will affect the student, their scholastic performance, or their interactions with other students.

IMO, self-mutilation issues would definitely qualify on all counts.

Whether or not she should have it on her school record, or any other record, became a moot point when she began to cut herself. Anyone who takes responsibility for her care needs to know her pertinent history.

Hi guys. Sorry, I've had a busy day so far today & am just getting home. I had a vacation day scheduled & lots to do. I went shoe shopping. OH, shoe shopping, my soul needed that.

THANK YOU so much for the opinions, perspective, and prayers.

We told DS/9. And it wasn't because I couldn't find anywhere for him to go, it was because I didn't feel even a little bit right about keeping him in the dark. Actually, DD told him, in my presence - a "family meeting". He handled it well & I'm happy with my decision to have told him. We are really big on NO SECRETS here so it was the right thing - for us. BTW, DS/9, "B Child" IS quiet, introverted & uncomplaining. This was the right thing to do.

When she got home I strip searched her. That was humiliating to her and I wondered if I may be somehow violating her...but I went with it. And good thing, because I found some cuts on her that were un-reported. She'd sworn it was only the ankle she showed the Guidance Counselor. I didn't get angry, I didn't get desperate, in fact all night I kept a VERY GOOD composure. <<Emotional Rollercoaster Julie pats self on back. Buys shoes>>

Do you know there is a GROUP of her peers doing this crap? In one case, she'd made a "pact" with a "friend", thus the marks on her ankle. These kids are carving each others' names onto themselves. Lord help me. I also found out she first engaged in this over a YEAR ago. OH my, how hurtful. In the 6th grade, some girls on her bus sold her on the idea - they do it, nobody knows (sheesh!), and "it really helps" Now I fear more than ever what will happen the day someone tells her the same about pills, or cocaine! A valid concern, obviously.

The crisis team that came over was great. They called BS on her when necessary yet they heard her out. We've met the lady who came over before, so it was also "comfortable" if you dare. DD almost seemed relieved - like her secret was out & she was glad for it. That might be a good sign, or it could be manipulation. Either way, we've got her number. They gave me some good resources and assured me I'd handled things well. Something I ALWAYS question.

OH - re: school. I left a mssg for GC first thing this morning to 1) let her know there was another "site" that DD didn't admit to; 2) ask what her "plan of action" is for today (DD said GC was to meet with these kids again today, and since there's so many, I'm looking for an in-service or a press conference or something big; and 3) confirm how this will affect DD's school transcript, etc. She told me yesterday that she had to notify the Principal & School Psychologist, but it's otherwise confidential. Nothing was mentioned of putting it on her file, so I'll want to confirm. By no means do I want this to hang over her in HS. DD is a bit mortified that "the whole 7th grade knows now, and everybody is freaking out". Yea, well, this is what you chose for yourself.

I spoke with DD's actual IC today (was on vacation yesterday, so I had to talk with a stand-in who didn't help much, though she tried) and she told me I did all the right things. We will see her next week and now that she's filled in on what's been going on so there will be no oppty for DD to BS her, should she choose. I feel SO supported. Like ppl are rooting for me. It's surreal.

I am shocked and hurt that I am dealing with this, but I feel very at peace today. I can actaully visualize DD/DS/our family coming out better for this. OH - as far as telling other family. No, we won't be, except for my brother & SIL. I wouldn't choose to except for the fact that my niece, same age as DD, knew about this. She slept over in February & noticed a mark on DD. She asked her what it was & DD told her. Niece said, "that's stupid" and after they argued about whether or not it was stupid that was it. So, I want to tell my niece she needs to TATTLE no matter what DD may have said, and I also want my brother & SIL to give my niece the once-over as this is so dang "trendy" that I sure hope she hasn't chosen the same for herself. She's got her own set of issues.

OK so that's all I can think of. Thank you again for your support.

Hi Julie2U,

I've been following.
You're in my thoughts as well. I'm glad today is better, and you've got good support sources.

You said you felt like you were violating DD with a strip search.
I've invaded my kids privacy before, with dam good reason.

I've told them that I WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO KEEP THEM ALIVE.

I don't much worry about their tantrums, they go away.

Thanks so much for that. Yes, the whole time I was doing it, she kept saying, "this is so humiliating...you are violating me" and the whole time, the voice in my head asked if she was right. Was I taking it too far. I do this to myself A LOT lately. I am literally the mom, the dad, the income, the shopper, the President, the Secretary, the lover, the fighter, my kids' comfort & their sole irritation. I'm having a really hard time finding the balance. I am literally the ONLY person DD can count on - she knows it, I know it, and people remind us both of it - often. That is a lot of pressure! I spend a fair amount of time hoping I don't mess it all up...then something like this happens and I convince myself, I've messed it all up! I gotta knock it off. I'm fine.

Good for you Julie

Julie it doesn't surprise me that there is a group that is doing this. When I was in school we all introduced each other to a lot of things. So yes there is a great concern for things that are more progressive. Your DD needs to feel that she has a great understanding from those that she loves. But the fact that things went well yesterday seam's like she might know that now. Keeping a level head is very good when dealing with this situation.

I think its a good thing that the school knows because if there is more than one student that is doing something this dangerous. Parents and teachers need to know so that they can deal with it. And other students need to know so they don't get into it.

Even though she may be mad at you now for the strip search and all of this, she really will thank you later. Basically you are saving her life, you are being a good mom!!

Well, I told my DD 12 and DD16 this way;

(Right after the elder slung a pretty vile adjective at me)
I can be your friend,
I can by your buddy,
shopping partner, wii fighter
and even your waitress...
But what trumps over all is that I am "MOM".

You can have tons of friends, shopping buddies, online gamming friends and confidants-- but only one of me. So that is my supreme calling. That means I have to do what I deem best if it is popular with you or not.

glad you are getting to the bottom of this.

Very well put Barbiecat, I'll have to remember that when mine gets older. And that is much better than what my mom used to tell me, which was I brought you into this world and if necessary I can take you out of it. And that didn't help any.

Julie I hope tonight is a little easier.

Hey Julie!

You rock!! That's all I can say!! I think you are doing a fantastic job handling this very difficult situation. Hopefully, DD was just doing this because it was the 'cool thing to do'. If that's the case then this should pass quickly. If not, then I am confident that she has an awesome mom that is going to fight like h@ll to get her through this. Don't question yourself for a second when it comes to DD's safety. If that means a strip search then so be it. Think of it like snooping on a wayward. They have brought it on themself by their actions. Plain and simple.

MindShare

I wrote you this big long reply....and I lost it....don't know where it went.

This is the heart of what I said earlier:

My daughter went through a cutting period. Still has ideation for it but is well enough to know it's not a good plan.

Spent 8 days in an adolescent psychiatric facility 4 years ago - depressed, cutting, suicidal thoughts. Today, she is like a totally different girl.

Therapy was essential to her recovery.

It is your RESPONSIBILITY to protect and help her. Privacy, when your child is troubled, is not a child's right. It is a PRIVILEGE.

YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO RAISE AND CARE FOR THAT CHILD SURMOUNTS ANY PRIVILEGE OF PRIVACY!!!!!!!

In my state, knowing a child is cutting and not telling the right people could be considered neglect. It is a criminal offense. You need to tell the school or the children's parents.

My child was cutting at school with her friends. When I told the school what I knew, they changed school policy so that cutting was no longer a guidance issue but it became a behavior issue. That change in policy meant that the administration could call an ambulance, the police, or whomever was needed to deal with a child who was bleeding at school. If the child was carted off to the hospital and the staff there found out what was going on, the child could be admitted for psych care. This was a huge change.

Do you know the stuff they cut with? the blade from pencil sharpeners, safety pins, almost anything. It's scary.

Be sure this child gets help....enough help to figure out what the real underlying issues are.

My daughter had hidden, for several years, the fact that my sister's son had been sexually abusing her. It had already stopped. But, that was what was driving her behavior. Cutting is common among the victims of sexual abuse.

My nephew was prosecuted and his sentence was a psychosexual evaluation and counseling....there were some other privileges he lost but he followed through with the counseling and has since apologized to me. He recognized that his choices tore our family apart.

I basically lost my mother. I did lose my sister and my brother in law and my only niece and nephew. But, I saved my child.

Search that body if you need to. You are not violating her. When she is doing well, you will no longer need to do it. You are protecting her from herself. It's ok. And, search her room, read her journals.

Protecting her is your responsibility.

Having privacy is her privilege.

Thank you so much for your post, Cinders. I will email Julie and make sure she knows you posted to her.

Thanks Cinder. Got the email, thanks Mel. Not that I thought I was the "only one" going thru this, but sure nice to know someone I've "known" & respected has been there...and came out ahead. Your post gave me some good ideas for the school, and I will stay on top of them. Am disappointed to report GC did not return my call yesterday.

DD & I are putting some final touches on the place in preparation for a scaled-down bday sleepover tonite. My brother, SIL & niece are due over tomorrow so I can give her a talkin' to. And I'm fighting the Swine Flu now, it seems. Or maybe just something like it.

...and to give you all an idea of the family dynamic that I often joke about because that's the only real sane option, how about this: my brother has essentially refused to come over. I told him & my SIL both that I needed to talk to them both and my niece. I apologized up-front about dropping a bomb but that I really need to discuss in person/not phone (they live an hr away) so we'll discuss when they come today. Well, niece has found something she'd rather be doing so isn't attending DD's bday sleepover, and now they've decided to visit SIL's family tomorrow instead of coming for DD's birthday. A-mazing. And, he won't let it go-wants me to tell him by phone, if it's something w/his kid I should tell him, instead of handling myself (hence the request for all to be there, duh!) and so on. I suppose by tomorrow night if they really don't come then I'll pick up the phone & tell them that way - but what crap. NO - we will NOT come together as a family - no matter what Julie asks!!

Hm, I guess it might have made him realize there might be some family issues. Maybe this is an effort to control you. Maybe it is an effort to run away from reality.


===============================================================

Listen, before my daughter's ordeal was totally over, I lost my sister to the Land Of Denial....it was easier to be mad at me for agreeing to prosecute her son than it was to be mad at him for what he did to my daughter.

He is a grown-up. His issues are his issues.

Your child is what you need to deal with. If you don't want to tell him over the phone, don't do it. Just hit him with it the next time you see him.

Thanks cinderella. I don't know what it is, but each time my brother lets me down (at least once a year, usually around DD's & nieces birthdays) I'm shocked and hurt. Not only did he refuse to partake in the "family meeting" I called, but he also blame-shifted ("well you were never real clear...can't you give me a CLUE what it's about??") and manipulated, and completely dissed DD on her birthday - not even a phone call! UGH, screw him. Hate that.

Have been meaning to post back here after DD's 2 appts the other day. She met w/psychiatrist who promptly changed & increased her meds. This really weirded me out a month ago, putting my kid on drugs, but came as such a relief the other day - clearly what she's on isn't working. So I'm glad about that. But, I was a little put off when we were discussing the meds & she looked @DD & said, "well what do you want? This is your treatment" This just days after being reminded by a VERY wise and close person that I've done that to DD too much myself!

She also met w/IC. They have the beginnings of a good relationship, but it's so hard to tell right now with all this "new" stuff being thrown at us. IC said to me "she's a very smart girl. Smart enough to know that this is not the path she wants to be taking, and smart enough to snow me if she wants to" What scares me is she's right. DD could be snowing me too.

School counselor remains diligent and I will do random strip searches at home. Really still longing for some sort of help/support for ME. I'm not walking on eggshells & our house doesn't follow her moods, but I need to get better educated so that I can be a valuable resource to her. And myself. OH yes, and DS!

You can do this..... my mom totally sided with my sister in all my stuff. My sister quit speaking to me. My x is not helpful.

I'm an ADD mom. Have an ADHD son. All I needed was a suicidal ADD daughter. You know, it stunk!

Your daughter is old enough to have some say. A smart psychologist/counselor will know when she's being snowed. That's why I was SO VERY VERY grateful we already had a relationship with one. And, I hope that both her psychiatrist and counselor know a lot about adolescent issues.

While it would be great to have your brother's support, remember that he has his own life and other people's problems may be more pressing on him. You don't know all the stuff he's dealing with.

You have no choice but to do this. Well, you do but it's not a good choice. So, if you need your own support system outside your family - if you need a psychiatrist to help you or a counselor/therapist/psychologist - get it.

Also, remember that not every mental/emotional health practioner is a good match for every patient. Sometimes, you have to change practitioners to find one with whom you and your daughter can establish a good rapport and can work effectively.

You're right. I can, I have to, and I will! There is no alternative. And I firmly believe we will all be better for it.

It's not that I was looking my brother's support, but moreso I wanted to let them know that my niece knew & kept DD's "secret" for her which is a BAD "life-skill" and while we're at it, figured they'd be wise to make sure niece isn't doing the same since this is so dang "trendy". But, I refuse to buy into their crap so for now I will focus on MY family & hope they do the same. Truly my brother & his family aren't a great resource to me or my kids anyway...so this SHOULDN'T be a surprise to me. It's just that we're cutting SO MANY people out - and I feel bad for my kids! Though I really SHOULD feel glad - we're trimming the fat.

I am sparing no expense when it comes to DD & getting her help. Have the same attitude w/DS, should he need somebody again too. But for me, I'm hoping to find something a little more local and...how you say...free. Or free-ish. I appreciate your sharing with me & your support.

Julie,
there is a ton of free information about teen mood disorders at depressedteens.com. There are a lot of 30 minute podcasts about things like types of therapy, the importance of sleep,substance abuse, and other self-care issues. When the kids hit the transition years they do have to start taking more responsibility for their health care decisions and this might give you and her some good tools to work with.

As for the psych turning to her and inviting her input, that probably was not a bad technique. If she takes part in and agrees with the decision she is more likely to comply.

In the teen years, almost all of the teens who have been on meds for depression or mood instability will try to go off their meds. Often, they don't bother to tell anyone, or do something foolish like pretend to take them. I do not recommend leaving a teen to take meds unsupervised, especially if cutting or suicidality has been an issue.

Thanks, Chrysalis. FYI, I dispense her meds to her. At this stage in the game anyway (just 30+ days in) I don't see her trying to NOT take them.

As for this: See, that's where I'm again not finding the balance. Training myself to do the "I'm the mom, you're the child, I will make the decisions & that will be final until further notice" more often so I freaked when the psych put it on her!

Thank you for your feedback. I need all the help I can get.

This may not help you right now, but for the future, may I recommend www.daughters.com? It's a down to earth website that guides you on all sorts of issues that girls 10-18 deal with. It's been invaluable for me.

Wow, thank you! I've bookmarked it.