http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...l-Newmans-marriage-secrets-revealed.html

So their first child is an other child. Joanne Woodward did a typical OW trick of pretending to be interested in someone else to force his hand. But this quote REALLY pisses me off. Typical of "Hollywood"

"But Newman wasn't cheating so much as he was recognising that he'd found his ideal partner."

Blech

I don't think I read any more after reading that tripe quoted above.

I couldn't even get that far.

That makes me so sad, wow, I never knew about the first marriage and children.

Another one for the Adultery Wall of Shame. Sickening.

Totally sickening.

And I hope he was telling the truth that he felt GUILTY about his first M.

He d*mn well should have. I wonder how Judgement Day feels???

<oops, is that a DJ???>

Don't forget Johnny Cash, another 3 percenter.

Paul Newman did a bad thing but he was still a good man. He dedicated much of his life to help others.

I always have and will continue to purchase his wholesome products to help his legacy alive for his children and the thousands (millions?) who benefit from the proceeds.

Charlotte

His oldest son died of a drug overdose. I can't help but wonder how much that was down to the childhood disruption of seeing your father leave and start a new family with his fancy woman?

Just think, without leaving for Joanne and Hollywood, Paul Newman would have been just an ordinary father teaching drama to kids and raising his children. What an awful fate!

Maybe and maybe not. A lot of Hollywood kids end up this way because they have too much money and they are bored and I think that a lot of them feel worthless, too, though many wouldn't admit it. Or maybe they just don't realize it.

A fancy woman? She was just a woman.

Charlotte

Not me. Everything he touched after his adultery is tainted. I buy nothing of his nor watch any movie with him in it. Never will either. It would be like rewarding him for his mean and hurtful choices.

I have actually read his son's problems were directly related to his father's adultery and resulting parent's D. Just like the the various problems of the majority of kids from broken homes. I find it amazing anyone would think his son would have turned out just the same if his adulterous and self serving dad had not run off with the skanky OW.

I wouldn't buy any of Paul Newman's brands on a bet! I have never, ever liked him, nor have I seen a single one of his movies. I take it back. I saw "Cars." And for that matter, the only Mel Gibson movie I've ever seen was "Chicken Run."

tl

Be kinda hard to do that, seeing as he's dead and all.

I'm thinking more about the people who benefit from the donations from these products. They are alive and well and need help.


Happens ALL the time in Hollywood...and not only Hollywood but amongst many children born with the proverbial "silver spoon" inserted in oral cavity.

Charlotte

That's nice, as I said, I am thinking about the people who benefit from the donations.

I've seen lots of Mel Gibson movies, not a whole lot of Paul Newman's, but some.

I didn't read the story about Mel Gibson, just saw the headlines. What I can't figure out is...why would anyone want to have an affair with HIM? For Pete's sake, the man has what...6 kids? 7?

Geesh!

Charlotte

All these posts make me think, What about the fact that he spent 50 years comitted to his realionship. Beacuse the relationship was with OW does it make easier to nuture and grow.
We all here know how difficult it is to sustain a healthy happy relationship for a long period of time.
Perhaps it is from the lessons he learned with his mistakes in his 1st marrriage that he was able to keep the 2nd one going for long. Can the F only be earned if you are still married to the BS? Can a subsequent long term relationship not qualify the WS as FWS?
I for one would like to focus on the fact that he was able to sustain his marriage (by all appearance a happy one) for a long term and take hope in that there can be long term happiness whether its with current spouse or any future spouse.

That's a good point, wmf, thank you for bringing that up. I hadn't even thought about that. 50 years is a long time.

Charlotte

I hate to throw my two cents in, but doesn't anyone deserve a second chance if they learned from their first mistake? What about JFK? What about Bill Clinton? Personally I believe that they were two of the best Presidents of our time. But that's just my opinion.

I suspect the GUILT he felt over trashing his BW and kids was the motivation that kept his M to Joanne on tract. He didn't want all that guilt to be for naught. And I suspect that if he failed this M, then he would have to look deep inside to figure out what was wrong with HIM. I doubt a Hollywood icon could fathom there was a weak link.

Well at least he felt some guilt, just not enough to maintain some boundaries and do the right thing.

Er...how old were you when JFK was president? Do you know history was rewritten there too? I didn't know about the cocaine addiction until just recently.

Even so, the comparison isn't the same. Bill didn't leave Hillary and JFK didn't leave Jackie. They just couldn't keep their zippers up.

I'm going to never watch another movie or TV show starring anyone who has ever committed adultery.

BTW, anybody want to buy a TV? I don't need mine any more.

Reminds me of that old commercial line: "I'm not a faithful spouse but I do play one on TV."

Or was that dentist? Oh...never mind. It is 55" big screen and I'm taking offers.

You have to come pick it up though.

And both of those men remained married to their original spouses...They did not leave them to marry their OWs...Newman's situation was COMPLETELY different...He was in an affairage...He never ENDED his affair...

Could a bank robber truly repent if he kept the money? Me thinks not...

Mrs. W

Why does it matter how old she was? Or wasn't?

What cocaine addiction? I didn't know about that.

I would buy your tv but I don't watch mine anymore, too much negative crap. Maybe you can ask Mr. Gray, he has a penchant for large screen tvs.

Charlotte

Yeah, they were/are in politics so that makes a big difference. Who knows what Kennedy would have done anyway? Wasn't long after that that he was dead.

Probably would have stuck around because he was a politician and Jackie would have kept a stiff upper lip about it, like she had to do anyway.

Paul Newman is dead, long live Paul Newman! May his legacy continue to help others long after we all are gone!

Charlotte

Well the sig line says 25 years old. Just doing the math. If you want to talk about how great a president was that died way before you were born, how can we possibly leave out Millard Fillmore?

Apparently JFK had a personal doctor who was constantly at his side - even when he met Kruschev. Supposedly what started out as "pain killing" grew to a viscious habit. JFK didn't want people to see him as invalid so he took drugs. In fairness, he may not have been aware he was taking cocaine. He just took what his doctor gave him. It was all about image. That is why we still believe he was a great president - because we needed to back then - exactly the same way we need to believe Obama is a great president now - because the alternative is unthinkable. Time will be the judge of how great Obama is. And I hope he is great. My 401K needs it. If JFK had been scrutinized by the free press back then as current presidents are, our memories might be different. I still remember the day he was shot. Everyone was in tears. Everyone.

And now that we are off into politics, can we now get into religion? And can you send me your SKYPE password so I can make some long distance calls on your account?

I bet so. My Mom has talked about it before. I saw the video. It was horrible. And she was so freaked out, climbing on the back of the car like she was trying to put him back together. That's what I thought she was trying to do, rather than run, you know? That really stuck with me.

Wow, I didn't know about that whole cocaine deal. Freaky. Thanks for the info.

Charlotte

Sure, why not?

Well, I would, but I had to uninstall Skype...my laptop didn't agree with it. Indigestion problems.

Charlotte

If I could just figure out how to not flush your toilet, I would have them all covered. I think.

Unrepentant adulterors both.

So Charlotte, if your WH marries his OW and comes here in a year or so because his ho is having an affair with some OM2 would you feel so charitable?

No


No it can't. What have they done to earn their "F"? They still maintain a Wayward Mindset.

Frankly, I don't give a fig what he does. He's not my problem anymore.

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

If? No if, only when. How do you know it will be him that comes here? Could be her. I don't know if he could hook another victim considering his appearance now, but you never know.

He doesn't have a giving heart like Paul Newman did. Look what he continues to do to his children! Threatening them with subpoenas and so forth. And the IRS.

Charlotte

Well i agree that i do not like that he was in an affairage and will now "boycott" him so to speak. I have done the same with Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie as well (especially her with her trach record she seems like a ho to me).

What i was thinking though is i wonder how many people we may talk to (that we are only just acquaintances with) who may be in an "affairage" and we do not even know?

We know about all of these because they are who they are. Does not change anything in my opinion i will still "boycott" them but i does make you wonder.

We dont know that he did not.
We only know what we "hear" so I am inclined to go with my own deductions based on evidence that I "hear"
After his 1st marriage disater, he was married for 50 years to his wife and he spent a large portion of his later life doing good with his charities.
What is guilt other than your inner voice saying "you messed up" learn from it and fix it. Looks to me he tried to make better choices later in life than he had in his younger days.
Isnt that how we get to the point of forgiving (not erasing), sustained better choices from a FWS. If a 50+ years of better choices does not qualify for a forgiveness then I am not sure what does.

Installing quieter zippers so no one can hear them being unzipped IMHO does not qualify.

wannamoveforward...

When did Newman's affair end? It didn't, therefore, he remained 'wayward'...Does time legitimize an affair? I certainly don't think so...

It's like I asked earlier in this thread...Could a bank robber that kept the money truly repent?

As far as his charitible work is concerned, it doesn't matter...No good deeds cancel out CONTINUED bad behavior...Ted Bundy volunteered on a suicide hotline, certainly a noble cause, but it didn't make the murders he committed any less heinous, right?

To repent means to "change your mind"...Newman didn't change his mind, he was only sorry for his guilt..."I'm sorry, BUT" just doesn't cut it...

Mrs. W

Well said MrsW.

So are you saying that if the WS does not patch with the BS or in anyway continues life with the OP then there is no way they can move past being a WS?
I understand your point of doing good deeds does not cancel the bad one, but what if the money from the robbery was burned in a fire. Since there is none to return the bank robber can no longer redeam himself.
If the M cant be salvaged then what other way is there for the WS to redeem himself or herself. I think A's are like fires they destroy everthing in their path and we can only rebuild something new, cant return and gain repentance.
Perhaps its naive of me but I'd like to go with the theory that people can learn from their mistakes and unless we are looking to give them credit for their efforts we will never see a WS as anything but.
May be its just a selfish thing for me but I'd like to get to a point where there really is such a thing as a FWS and I can look into my DHs eyes and feel that way completely about him. Whether he was able to rebuild with me or someone else, the fact that he (and I) learn from this disaster and rebuild our lives is the goal in my mind.

I think you lose the wayward status when you really believe that your affair was wrong.

If you are married to the affair partner, that makes things more complex for sure. I don't think even Dr H would advise someone who divorced their spouse to marry the affair partner to again divorce, in an attempt to reconcile.

So for me, the litmus test is when the WS goes to the BS and says, what I did was wrong, will you forgive me.

If they don't or never do that, they are still wayward.

Whether or not we want to admit it, the plain truth is that he found someone who was apparently a better match for him than his first W. That he found that someone while M'd to his first W seems to be the big issue here.

I wonder how many here, BS, WS and FWS alike, have wondered at some point in their M if they made a mistake and there was someone better suited for them, or their spouse, out there? Ever considered what you'd do if you actually came across such a better match?

When I found out about my FWW's A, I tried to find out as much about the OM as possible. My thinking might have been screwed up at the time, but I thought that if he came across as someone who would be a better H than I have been, a better match for my FWW, I'd have gone to Plan D immediately. Of course, he turned out to be a shallow character who basically destroyed my M because he was curious about my FWW, and the rest is history.

wannamoveforward...

I'm not sure whether you realize it or not, but I myself am a FWS...What I think it takes to become a FWS is genuine repentence, and as I told you in my last post that means to "change your mind"...To totally and completely renounce your past behavior...I do NOT think that is possible while remaining with an affair partner...Remaining with the affair partner would not allow you to fully change your mind...An affair is a totally toxic relationship and it can never be anything else...

I believe that so fully that even if, GOD FORBID, something were to happen to Mr. W I would still remain FOREVER no contact with my former OM...There could NEVER EVER be anything between myself and him that was not toxic...What began as adultery would remain adultery, imo...

So, YES, certainly your husband can become a FWH and you can look at him in that light, but imo, there must be a complete transformation of his mind and heart for him to be a true FWS, and he couldn't get to that point if he remained with his affair partner...

Mrs. W

No doubt, I thought I'd made mistakes. The difference is, I didn't choose an affair as the solution to my mistake. My XWW decided an affair WAS the solution to what she repeatedly said was a mistake.

However, it is funny that she never ONCE voiced the idea that our getting married was a mistake until she was with OM.

So the idea of it being a mistake has some merit. Yet it must be balanced against the re-writing of history that typically comes with an affair.

I wonder how much better his first marriage would have been if he had put all the effort he was putting into the affair into his marriage?

The mistake is seldom the person. We are all incompatible. The mistake is typically how we choose to conduct our relationship with that person.

That is not corrected by choosing another person.

A few of my faves:


Very nice!


It's special enough to make me tingly all over.

JW was "tormented" as being viewed as a homewrecker? um....okay LMAO She wasn't tormented enough to stop and give up like she expected Jackie to nor tormented enough to not get preggers with OC. Don't believe for one minute that pregnancy was an oops.

Funny how the public is supposed to buy the Hollywood fairytale at face value and just smile. 50 yrs of affairage doesn't change the truth.

I agree with Mrs W.

He (and we) will never know if he could have reconciled with his first wife because he did not try at the time he simply married the OW.

Great post E_E!

Mrs. W

Hey Mim

You need to fix your siggy.

I have never had this thought i have always thought my FWH was the man for me and i only have had eyes for him since the day i met him .

He may have done well in his life despite the fact of his despicable behavior, but he was still an adulterer and a hypocrite at that.

Later in his life, "when asked about infidelity, he quipped, "Why go out for hamburger when you have steak at home?"

Liar.

I had not seen your point on view as either of BS or WS. I can see why our views might differ based on the which side of the window we are on.
Kudos to you on having put in the hard work to earn your F cause I can see my H's effort and know that its not easy.
Somtimes based on my reactions he feels like he is taking one step forward and 2 steps backward and will never get to the finish line. I am very proud of him for sticking around and working hard at mending what he broke and rebulding a loving relationship with me. I am actually starting to feel happy and a small sense of security of being in together.
Afraid to give in completely yet but I can see the buds blosomming.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the rare occurances that good relationships can sometimes come out of muddy waters.

I've wonder if my M was mistake on occassion...more in the past year for obvious reasons but I wouldn't divorce my H if I met a better match. Plus what is a better match? My H has some wonderful qualities. He does lack some qualities that I wish he had or at least had more of X that I like. But if I came across a "better match" how would I know unless I started taking applications? Just as APs think they know each other and think they are soulmates, they don't know crud. They only know the "good side" the AP shows them and ignore the obvious glaring that their soulmate is a liar and user.

I am sure all BSs ponder this soon after Dday. Many WSs and FWSs seem to think their OP is a better match (and a lot of cases). Then there are those who are just want it all! Personally, I have wondered if there is a better match for me...like another BS that has similar Top 5 ENs...but I made a commitment and am trying to stick to it.

Actually wannamoveforward I find it pretty odd that as a BS you could think the way you are thinking about this... If your husband also thinks this way, imo, it would be definite cause for concern...

Was your own relationship born "out of muddy waters" by chance?

Mrs. W

I am not sure how my H feels about this, have to bring that up and see. My guess is right now he probably sees it as you do that an A is toxic and should not survive. I would agree with
that in general.

I must say I am surpised at myself for defending Newmans stich, (its not like I knew him personally). I guess the 50+ year married thing touches a nerve with me and I wonder if that does not deserve credit then what does.
The more I experience the work it takes to be present and nuture my own relationship the more I am inclined to tip my hat to those who have been able to sustain that. Its unfortune that this 50+ year M is tarnished by the fact that it is an affaiage, I guess other that minor Major flaw its a pretty impressive feat. Thats all I am trying to say.

No our relationship did not start "out of muddy waters" in any way. We met 16 years ago and have been married for 14. I was in love and "just knew he was the one for me". Never understood that phrase until it happend to me

Mr. W read that Joanne Woodward was offended by that particular comment...Interesting...Ya think that was perhaps because she KNEW that she was the "hamburger" that he went out for, and realized that there was no way to transform a "hamburger" into a "steak"? Hmmmmm...

Mrs. W

LOL, that mirror musta been really bright!

What if you dress up the hamburger with all sorts of fixins?

Okay wannamoveforward, I gotcha...50 years or not, trying to make that relationship a good thing just seems like attempting to pick up a turd by the clean end...

Best of luck to you in your recovery...

Mrs. W

Maybe Joanne Woodward see herself as a Sloppy Jo.

LOL! Nope...It'd still be just a plain old burger underneath, with LOTS of gristle on the inside to boot...

Mrs. W

Maybe she's who Adam Sandler was singin' about? "Sloppy Jo, sloppy, sloppy Jo"



Mrs. W

I think you are on to something. Sloppy Jo did get rather defensive of the lunch lady.

I guess it could be worse...she could be chopped liver.

OK, let's leave specific politics out of this, and just look at the men. "First mistake?" Are you kidding me? How about 40th mistake? 100th mistake? How about never, EVER learning? How many "second" chances are you willing to give someone, just because you admire their political views? Now take away your shared political philosophies. Imagine that you don't even know what their politics are...and then imagine their wives coming on MB and asking for help, but disclosing the same history of repeated infidelity that both these men have publicly demonstrated. How many more chances would these wives be advised to give, by all you regular posters?


Which, in IMfirmO, makes it infinitely worse. At least Paul Newman got OUT. Jackie and Hillary, on the other hand, endured the same punch-in-the-gut insult, overandoverandoveragain. Those of you BSs, who endured a single D-day, and found it hard to survive, should find it fairly easy to empathize with what these women went through. Repeatedly. And for Hillary, on the evening news as well. In that respect, Paul Newman's 1st wife lucked out!

tl

t&l...

Politics aside, I'm only arguing that Clinton & JFK, didn't leave their marriages for their adultery partners...To me, there is a greater chance of repentence when a WS stays in the marriage (if allowed)...I believe that staying in the marriage offers a powerful catalyst for genuine change...I can't see it with an affairage...Not at all...

Both Hillary & Jackie certainly had valid "outs" to leave their marriages, but didn't take them...Obviously we don't know if Jackie might have eventually taken hers or not, but Hill/Bill are still together as far as I know...I sincerely hope that he is or becomes a true FWS...Only God knows...

JMHO...

Mrs. W

It is only a catalyst for change if a person is willing to be changed. I have seen no evidence that change was desired, or even really attempted...the leopards retained their spots, to use a Biblical metaphor. And Jackie ended her life in an affair with a married man, so she didn't much learn anything from her marital pain, did she? Much as I do not admire Paul Newman, he left the marriage and let his wife go on. He didn't drag her through repeated embarrassments and exposures by hanging on to her AND his sexual freedoms.

I would say that I find it ironic that some of the same posters who so loudly critiqued John McCain, Sarah Palin, and other conservatives for their real-or-alleged infidelities during the campaign are now quite willing, for the liberal, generous, and ever-so-handsome Paul Newman, to cut the offender an GREAT deal of slack. But if I said that, it would draw politics back into the discussion, so I won't.

tl

Sounds like a case of what is worse...the cake eater or the WAS? They both suck but for different reasons.

I don't care. I liked Paul Newman. I even liked Joanne Woodward (especially in "They might be giants" with George C Scott, who wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue IRL).

Thinking about it, I know that in my own sitch, though I love my W, I would have preferred she had done what PN did and leave her family for Rat Meat, say 2 years in2 their first A. I even told her, a few months after d-day 7 years ago, that I could have started another family and had more grown kids by now if she'd simply left. Go be happy, if you can.

PN and JW seemed 2 have done that, 2 an extent marred by the feelings of guilt he lived with his whole life. One of the costs of consequences.

A good friend of mine committed suicide about 5 years ago. He was 70, and had been taking pain-killing drugs because prostate cancer had come back for the 3rd time. At his memorial reception, I met his first W and 2 kids, who he'd left for his OW 25 years before (I didn't know until after he'd died that his 2nd marriage started out as an affair). I knew him as a good man, funny guy, very talented engineer. Very outgoing. In retrospect, a lot of that may have been an effort 2 compensate for past wrongs, like PN may have been doing. Saddest thing about the memorial service was meeting his kids. His daughter had re-established communications with him when her first child was born about 2 years before, and said he was a terrific grandparent. His son hadn't spoken 2 him since he left his mom 25 years earlier. His son looked very much like his dad, and had some of his good qualities. But he was bitter. Ironically, his dad was not - though he was sad at times (again, possibly for the choices he had made, though I was unaware of them while he was alive).

My W's dad was an alcoholic. He verbally abused his kids up until her mom DV'd him about when I met my W. My W and one of her brothers managed 2 build a decent relationship with him after their kids were born. He was a terrific grandfather. But both my W and her brother never felt he "apologized" for what he'd done when they were kids. Still, they gave him a 2nd chance, and he did the best he could with it up until he passed away 12 years ago.

"Still shakin' it, boss, still shakin'." -Paul Newman, "Cool Hand Luke"

-ol' 2long

"I killed'em ... all of'em. They were bad men, and their wh0re's weren't ladies" - Paul Newman, "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean".

Why? Did he continue to cheat? I honestly don't know the answer to that question. What if he had done the right thing and gone back to his first wife?

I agree about repeat offenders though... knowing what I know NOW, and after experiencing the pain, I wouldn't put up with it. It wouldn't matter to me HOW powerful my husband might be. The whole WORLD would know.

I'm not sure what is so mystifying about this. Do you think, if he hadn't left his first wife for Joanne, that his affair with her would've been his only one? In Hollywood? At least his first wife had to put up with one public betrayal, one abandonment, one humiliation and dumping. I doubt, should she have been given the chance (and if such a chance had even been possible), that she would've felt any desire to trade the end of her marriage, for the continuance of marriage "enjoyed" by Jackie or Hillary. Given some of the alternative scenarios her cheating husband could've dragged her through, by comparison she lucked out.

tl

Well at least Jackie and Hillary had the decision as to stay or not. PNs first wife did not get that option he just left and she still had that betrayal and humiliation and abandonement anyway.

Jackie and Hillary made their choice to stay with their WSs.

The more fool they. (which is grammatically correct, although it sounds odd, I know) If somebody was beating ME up with a club, be danged if I'd stick around for years for more!

tl

I honestly don't know. Do you honestly know that it wouldn't have? Are there NO marriages in Hollywood without adultery?

PN's first wife didn't have to D. She simply had enough as the two lovebirds rubbed their A in her face. I give her credit for that...couldn't have been easy back then.


But never fear, the karma bus is coming through:
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/pau..._woodward_robert_redford/celebrity/66561

Robert Redford is a true friend.

Well neither would i but to each his (or her) own i guess.

Well there you go. The leopard that was Paul Newman never changed his spots.

Did I say there are NO marriages in Hollywood without adultery? My guess would be that the percentage is not high, but I would have no way of knowing for sure about all fo them...nor would anyone else. However, I was talking about Paul Newman, a Hollywood icon with unlimited opportunities to score, and one affair under his belt already. If he had stayed, for the last 50 years, with his long-suffering first wife, having cheated on her once, what are the odds that he would never have cheated on her again? Would you want to bet your own life on those same odds? For that matter, does Joanne really think he was faithful to her?

tl

Sloppy Jo to Hamburger Helper back to Sloppy Jo.

Having just read The Enquirer teaser, let me rephrase that: Does Joanne really think he cheated on her only once?:crosseyedcrazy:

tl

What is so familiar about so many of the paragraphs the original article? Stripping away the consumer fluff, this is pretty much all that is left to tell about his life, his entire existence:

“'But being what they were, neither could help what was happening to them.'”

“But Newman wasn't cheating so much as he was recognising that he'd found his ideal partner.”

'They were so young when they married,' a friend said of Newman and Jackie. 'They just grew up to be two different people.”

'That had been at her insistence,' Vidal later recollected, 'and based entirely on her passion not for me but for Paul.' She thought that a fake engagement might force him to leave Jackie once and for all.”

As Joanne remembered: 'Paul and I were good friends before we were lovers. We really liked each other. We could talk to each other, we could tell each other anything without fear of ridicule or rejection. There was trust.'

“Sometime during the shooting of The Long, Hot Summer, perhaps on that voluptuous brass bed, they had conceived a child - the reality of which may have been the final straw in Jackie's agreeing to let him go”

“And so he made up his mind to leave, regardless of how Jackie took it, regardless, even, of what it meant to the children.”

“'I was probably too immature to make a success of my first marriage,' was all he would say. When pressed, he replied: 'What happened to us during that period is nobody's business.' “

“He did, however, confess to one emotion.’Guilty as hell' was how he described himself about his first marriage, adding: 'And I'll carry it with me for the rest of my life.'”



Oh, right, they are all in the WS Handbook. Every last one of them. Even the attempted damage control at the end.

I always figured he had other affairs during his affair marriage. So now I see a link, well OK to the NE but hey I believe it. I bet he did it many times more than once.

This one gives a little more background:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...boy-Paul-Newman-drunken-philanderer.html

"But his friends knew, she claimed. 'It was the worst-kept secret in Hollywood. People used to joke about it. Referring to his old remark, they'd say: "Paul may not go out for hamburger, but he sure goes out for Bacon."

OW is better than Hamburger Helper...she's bacon!

LOL

There were more reputable new sources to list but NE gave the jist of it while more "reputable" sources glossed over his As.

That figures. Everyone knows what bacon is made of.

Sardonic is totally lost on me, Pio. I am an engineer. There are a few crumbs left on the floor but the cat is taking care of them as I type so it is too late to ship them back to you.

Irony though…I enjoy a good ironing as much as the next guy.

We will never know if PN admitted to himself that his divorce could of caused his son to kill himself. I had a cousin that killed himself when he was nineteen. His parents had divorced. After the divorce the kid was messed up.

Did his son's death cause PN to regret his actions?
If so PN could never undo the past.
So what should of PN done?

Many marriages should of not happened.

Did PN have his XW and family enjoy the material things that he, JW and their children enjoyed?

Did PN give his first set of kids the same amount of time and attention as the second set of kids?

Having lived in the desert for more than 10 years, I understand the futility of drawing a line in the sand.

If PN was just an average joe, struggling to make his mortgage, I don't think we would care this much.

Lines in the sand are so easy to draw, though. And they can look so pretty lying there. I say draw them all over the place as much as you want.

Drawing them with the muzzle of your assault rifle is usually productive.

I agree, except when they live or work near me. Then I fumigate.

Ahhhhh That great Paragon of Virtue and Truth - "The National Enquirer"