My wife of 21 years broke off her affair in early April. We are going to counseling, but the counselor has told WW that she can't help because WW hasn't really committed to the relationship. WW says she is still mourning the loss of the OM, and I shouldn't be expecting anything at all from her yet.

But the real issue of the post is the box of mementoes that she is keeping. It infuriates me. I think it is a physical representation of her lack of commitment. I find it insulting, disrespectful, and hurtful. We've discussed it and she flatly refuses to get rid of it. And I think she, not I, should get rid of it (it doesn't mean much if I just dispose of it). Her defense is that I don't understand why she needs to keep it because I'm not a woman. Is there anyone out there, woman or man, who thinks a memento box of an affair makes any sense at all? Or am I just overly sensitive?

NOT ONLY NO BUT HAYELL NO!

NO REASON ON GODS GREEN EARTH! I say you make her burn it in front of you. Cleansing by fire.

No. No. No.

My WH and I had a little ceremony (after a couple of months) where we burned all momentos symbolizing that our marriage would now be able to rise out of the ash.

It is. You are not overly sensitive and the existence of the mementos will terrible hinder or prevent your recovery.

She's not on board at all yet.

How long was the adultery. Was it a PA?

Are you sure there is no contact. This smells of contact.

This STINKS of contact.

This is what she really means.

Your wife is in what Dr. Harley calls withdrawal. Unfortunately, it sounds like your counselor isn't well-versed in the dynamics of affairs; otherwise, he/she would recognize this stage and be giving both of you direction that will lead to getting through the withdrawal without breaking no contact.

Have you considered counseling with the Harleys?

As for the memento box, the only reason to hold on to it is to hold on to the fantasy. And THAT will keep WW in perpetual withdrawal.

Something as simple as that would be a deal breaker for me. The box would be leaving my house one way or the other...either by the wayward disposing of it, or the wayward leaving with it.

Did your wife send a no contact letter to OM? One that you read and mailed yourself?

How have you verified no contact?

What extraordinary precautions has your wife put into place to prevent any contact with OM and to eliminate the ability to conduct an affair?

Do WW and OM work together? Or are they still both involved in the activity that brought them together?

Yes, it was PA. It lasted from last August until April.


I thought that too, but she denies it.

One thing I've learned kj, is WS LIE. Just because she says there is NC, certainly doesn't mean NC!
Very soon after D-day for me, I found a cd that WH kept from OW. Ironically, it was something I had seen before D-day, but trusted him so much it never occured to me that it was innapropriate.
I, too believed that the affair was over because he said so, but darned if that CD kept turning up in his brief case or other hiding places. He could not let go of the object because he was in no way ready to let go of the OW.
If you haven't already, read everything here and try to better understand that your W is not around -- she is a WW and none of what you knew about her really applies right now.

Oh she denies it, then it must be true. Sorry for the sarcasm. Maybe you should try and find out. Just a thought.

Hi kj

I'm sorry you're stuck with this at them.

As you probably gathered absolutely no way is the only answer to your question.

Not only is it awfully painful and sickening for you


but it will do absolutely nothing to help her get over it and lose her feelings for OM and while she can't lose her feelings and she has that box of memories that will trigger her own thoughts, she will not be able to throw herself back into your M.

SHE MUST DESTROY THE BOX AND CONTENTS (it really has to come form her though for you to begin to consider restoring any faith in her)

I am a FWW, kj. She absolutely must get rid of everything. Must.

When the FOM and I went NC last summer, I got rid of all emails, pictures, and all the things on my computer. I came to MB and was told I needed to get rid of anything that reminded me of FOM. So I gave away the leather jacket that he said he liked on me (even though I had owned it for 13 years), other clothing, CDs, a coffee mug, workout clothing... Things that he didn't give me but that simply reminded me of him through associations. I even asked my H to throw away a brand new $40 shirt H had just bought because it reminded me of FOM. (H complied.) Why? Because every time that object is seen, the memories soon follow. Then the heart longs for that "good" memory and then that memory stands between the two of you and your potential recovery.

Please read Mark1952s thread called Managing Memories and Dealing w/ Triggers. In fact, print it out and have your W read it too.

Oh... And the NC letter is an absolute must if it hasn't been done yet. Take it from one who received one. It's critical in stopping the OP from reaching out.

Good luck.

This is non-negotiable. That box of mementos needs to go. Your marriage cannot recover while she still holds onto fond memories of a past that is so painful to you.

You should be in plan A...in plan A you don't power struggle this type of stuff..

you speak of the pain it causes

you speak how it hurts you....
and then you clam up....

you word your pain so there is no room arguement and you let her stew in the reasons why this hurts

Your other option is to demand, plead, beg, disrespectful outbursts and place focus on minutia.....

you will lose site of the bigger picture of true recovery

should she keep this stuff the answer is NO

the question is do you want a spouse who comes to you one day and speaks true remorse or do you want this weekend spent on a battle ground demanding she gives them up and then her using your demands as a weapoon in claiming how you only want to punish and control

of course they have to go...
but demanding they go.....
will only be used against you

the timeline is equal to the timeline you have set for plan B to be gone from her

either it goes in x number of months or you go PLAN B
the box is irrelevant
in the big picture.....

plan A.... speak your love and your pain
that's the best you can do.....

ARK^^

It has nothing to do with being a woman and everything to do with being a wayward. Although I will say in general women are more prone to holding onto mementoes but these are just crappy reminders. They need to be tossed. It's only been a month and WW may be in withdrawl. Hopefully...

No

No
No

To Clarify, the Junk Has To Go.

I agree w/ EVERYTHING said by all the other posters!

Is this a trick? "Can I please keep the set of knives I used to cut your heart out, as a keep sake? NO? How can you can you be so heartless and uncaring". "Because you cut out my heart you cheat".

Ark, yours is the reply I most feared when I posted this.
How dare you not validate my anger? <---- light sarcasm

I really appreciate everyone else's response because you confirm that I'm not just being petty. But I believe Ark's is the answer most consistent with the MB approach. And, of course, the one I least wanted to see and one of the more difficult.

Ultimately, I want her to want to get rid of it. And I have to wait for that, right? If it ever comes.

I would demand the box goes or you go. My ex-ww kept all sorts of things from the om,she ended up on the curb

kj, we are about 7 months into recovery. My wife is holding onto something she got from the OM. I have asked her few times and she said, it is packed away and she never even looks at it. I believe her. In my heart though I hope/dream/fantasize that one day.....

She will bring it home and burn it in front of me...(how can she not get THAT ????....sorry it is very frustrating at times)

I dont think she will do it but I have reached a point in our recovery where I want to get away from demanding, expressing anger, dictating things to my wife.

I agree with ark. Plan A does NOT demand. She needs to realise this and do this on her own. I may let her know how much it hurts me that she hangs on to something that I abhor. But not right now.

I know K....it sucks....big time...

but look at ouchthathurts response...

it is poetry....

a perfect word picture statement....

Can I please keep the set of knives I used to cut your heart out, as a keep sake? asks the WS

NO! anwers the BS

How can you can you be so heartless and uncaring". questions the WS

"Because you cut out my heart you cheat".

except calling a WS a cheat doesn't help....( again the irony with heavy sarcasm....)

say this to your WS....

I was going to put some very sharp darts in your momento box and every time you open that box would you please take one out and just stab me with it....so that for the first time since finding out about the afair.....I will have physical pain to go along with the emotional pain that I feel in that box...it truly would be kind of you..

smile and walk away....

believe me K....this is treacherous waters you are in...painful

I am a woman and when I am done with a man, I dispose of all momentos. The only exception is if you have kids together you might save pictures for them to take when they're grown, or if you have a spouse that dies, you might keep some of their things, but it should be done in an unobtrusive way. But in this situation, she should absolutely get rid of everything to do with him. She needs to see that what she did with him was an affront to you and grievous to your marriage, not something to hang onto and remember. I'd definitely see a counselor that understands that she is going through withdrawal, and how to best help her through it so the two of you can move on in a more positive direction together.

Speaking as an FWW, I kept the photos from my teenage years of me and the OM after the A because I wanted a reminder of the A when it was over. If the A had been active, I wouldn't have cared whether I had them or not. Vows, that is what happens in most cases - disposing of the mementos - but not when it comes to waywards.

My H and I burnt all the pics in a ceremony about five months after d-day. The event is even here on MB from about 2004.

kj, your WW is in a very well documented stage of withdrawal. It's textbook. Your counsellor is crap. She probably means well but she has NO idea. This is make or break time for you. Time to read EVERYTHING on the site.

The advice to say how much the mementos hurt, while good in theory, doesn't really work in practice. My H told me the photos hurt him and I thought "and I care, why?". It wasn't until I'd started behaving like a human being again that I could see the hurt and wanted them gone as much as he did.

ETA Yes, they have to go.

PM Nailed it - note the phrase


Your wife is most probably still in withdrawal.

My wife came home with a few mementoes as well and it drove me nutz but she did get rid of them ALL without me doing a song and dance routine after she had withdrawn and recommitted to our marriage. This will be a barometer - you will know she is committed when she ditches them.

BigK is absolutely right. It's a sign of commitment -it's why I burned them. I understood the need to get rid of them and I wanted to get rid of them. I've added the link to my first post in my signature. I haven't read what I actually wrote about burning the photos - probably some foggy stuff - but whatever I wrote is how I felt then.

It took my W twenty fives years to get rid of a gold chain and heart from the OM.

No way, this is a terrible idea. If a WS insists on keeping an "affair box" that is a sign that they still aren't completely over it.

RedVine, yes it does mean that, but not many WS's ARE over it even when they want to commit to the marriage. Withdrawal is a definite stage of ending an A. It's what I've said over and over on MB for the last 5? 6? years. If a BS can stomach that withdrawal period and do a great Plan A with a spouse who is even a third of the way there, the marriage can be saved.

I'm proof positive of that.

Getting rid of the mementos is a big, big major step in recovery. It's as big as the WS no longer hugging the edge of the bed.

My WW kept souvenirs from the A. Some she had forgotten about and others she had stashed away. I found them by accident when repairing some furniture. She said she knew she would have to get rid of them some day but wasn't ready yet. I burned them.

If I find any more, I'll divorce her because, after 4 years, if she is still looking at the affair fondly, she doesn't belong in my house.

FINALLY ... someone with some self-respect.

EXACTLY ... it really is a self-respect BOUNDARY issue.

"This is my home too, and I refuse to share it with mementos of OM. You either dispose of them TODAY, or you take them with you when YOU leave, but I will not remain in the same house with them another day."

We've seen it time after time with WW's ... they will not love a man that they don't respect, and your WW will never respect you, if the BH does not have any SELF-respect, and its pretty tough to have self-respect when you're behaving like a DOORMAT!

Since so many As start from high schoolers reunited, I'd also suggest that those either chuck the yearbooks, carve OP's face out of them, and get rid of any other high school day reminders. I did.

HOW did this A end?
HOW was this A discovered by you?
Is OM married? If yes, are you 100% certain OM's W knows?

You are not overly sensitive.

WW: "You don't understand why I need to keep it because you are not a woman."

YOU: "I am most certainly not a woman. I am a husband who loves his wife and is hurting terribly."

What exactly are the contents of this box?
Where exactly does she store said box?

Absolutely right... she's in withdrawal. You support her, painful as it is. And wait for the day when she burns it herself freely and gladly.

Have you done all you can to ensure no contact? Moved house / changed jobs? Are you snooping?

There may come a time when you are not willing to keep her and her Box o'Adultery too. That's fine.

For now, you are gently expressing your pain (memorize Pep's response), and reminding her with your actions that you are a good man who loves her.

See where that gets you first, before getting out the Boundary Billy Club.

The only "mementos" I had from the affair were a couple of old CDs that the OM had given me...I could not tell you for the life of me where they are now, nor did Mr. W ever place any meaning on them - if we ever run across them, I'd have no problem gladly filing them in the "circular file cabinet" without blinking an eye...It just never was made an issue by Mr. W...Things only have meaning when you assign them meaning - he did not place meaning on what he considered very silly and immature...Now of course an active wayward or one in withdrawal will assign ridiculous teenage type meaning to them - which will later be a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT to them once they become a FWS...In our house it was just never mentioned...It wasn't a hill to die on in the grand scheme of things for Mr. W...

He did however negotiate the affair phone away from me (the phone was something that could have done real harm, as it was a means for contact)...I remember him saying, "If you let me get rid of the phone, I will get you a laptop."...Waywards are incredibly child-like, so bribery often works...Dangling something sparkly in their faces often does the trick...I jumped on that deal and actually didn't get the laptop until about 1.5 years later..."Just because", not because of giving up the affair phone - I was no longer acting like a child then and therefore it wasn't seen as some "reward"...Point is though, the affair phone was GONE...Mission accomplished without a fight...

When you place value on these mere "things" it gives credance to the silly meaning that the wayward has placed on them and makes them dig in their heels even more...I'd worry more about being in Plan A and less about winning what will one day not even be a battle to be fought...

Mrs. W

Edited to Add: KJ, my post certainly was not intended to ignore the pain that you are currently going through...I am truly sorry that this is happening to you...No one deserves to go through this...((((KJ))))

How close did you come to tossing her on the pyre?

If I remember correctly, I had her suitcases out on the bed and was packing her things. It was long enough after Dday and NC that I had had enough. It was no longer how she felt about OM but rather how I felt about myself. If she wanted OM, she could have him.

I'm pretty sure this is the time we got in that wrestling match in front of the DDs. They were screaming and she was trying to hurt me where it hurts most. I had to sit on her and pin her arms down until she calmed down. She was trying to get the photos and letters away from me because I was trying to scan them to send to the lawyer. She did a bob and weave to get one letter away from me but I scanned the rest. Then I got her suitcases out and told her to pack and then I told her to explain to the DDs why she was leaving because it was no longer my responsibility.

Ah the good old days. It's all such a blur now.