Wow!

Talk about a slippery slope. I now realize how incredibly dangerous the chemicals involved in the “love” feelings are. I am not making any excuses whatsoever for Waywards, they have to own their deceit and treachery and destruction. But I looked into the abyss myself last night and I have to tell you:

I became a wayward in thinking at least last night.

I have had this friend since we were in High School. She divorced her H about 2 years ago. Anyway, she and I talked a lot during the time when I first found out about the A and was trying to get WW back etc.

So now, she texts me fairly frequently, you know stuff like, “Hey, how ya doing?” “Have you served WW yet?” Stuff like that.

I actually never thought anything sexual about any of it, just a friend. Well recently she texted and I didn’t recognize the number, so I texted back and asked who it was. She texts back, “The hot blonde divorced chick that checks in on you from time to time.”

I can’t remember who it was on this board that told me that I seemed to have a need for a “hot” wife, but they were right. Physical attractiveness is one of my top EN’s. Let me tell you, this blonde is smoking with a figure you just....well she is smokin’.

She was also one of my WW’s good friends until my WW decided that she didn’t like the people that told her to her face that she was messing up. They still see each other from time to time.

Well, this weekend the texts are kinda flirty, and I have to admit I was kinda flirty back. She called me a “tease” and wondered “where are the cute divorced dad’s that like to just cook a steak out and have monogamous sex without the worry someone is going to try to force them to marry.”

Well, if you have read my posts you already know I am not the sharpest blade in the drawer and I am hopeless when girls are coming on to me. I just don’t get it. So I texted back something like “You are funny!” and left it at that.

Well last night she texts me again and then she calls. We start talking and she tells me she messed things up with a guy she was sort of dating who is coming off a situation where his WW cheated on him and he D’d her. She felt after 2 plus years post-divorce she was ready for an intimate relationship and felt she pushed him a little too much too early.

She posited that “with girls it prob might take a couple of years to have sex after D, but she thought with men it might be shorter?” I told her that it had been nearly 2 years for me as well (I know; 2x4 me).

Well...

We talked for an hour and before I knew it, I was flirting and so was she. I all of a sudden felt like I was on FIRE! I mean a real passion and arousal and a strong, strong desire to meet up with this woman. I mean, I was mapping stuff in my head like going on dates, flying home to see her, having her come stay with me in DC, going to Christmas party circuit with her, having her visit me in teton valley this summer and hiking and fishing. I had images of her pretty face and her kissing me...and of course the SEX. I was really thinking about that a lot!

I literally caught myself and mumbled something about “oh gosh, look at the time, its nine o’clock and my dinner is still on the stove, call me sometime, gotta run.”

Last night I dreamed about her and this morning too. I felt weird all day.

I guess the moral of this long story is, this stuff people talk about “boundaries” is way true. I like to think I could have been a “good boy” if she had been in the room with me, but I don’t know.

I know I am glad to be able to look at myself in the mirror and be able to say I didn’t cheat, after all I am still legally married and the papers aren’t signed.

But this stuff is powerful juju!!


SWW

R U getting divorced? Filed? You know its OVER??! The legal part is a mere formality. You should know in your heart if your M is over, and if so, you are free to date, sex, etc...IMHO DUDE

Dude,

I disagree, sorry.

Yes it is over. But that argument was exactly what my WW said to me to justify her A.

SWW

No, don't do anything until divorce is finale. Formality or not it's a commitement you don't want to have the doublestandard of having broken.

Tell your female friend to back off on the flirting and when the divorce is finale you will consider "matters" again.

As anything "NOW" is an AFFAIR! /facepalm

Spoken like a true wayward, Dude...

Good job on catching yourself, SWW...Hold tight to your honor, you will be so glad that you did...It is something to be VERY proud of...

Mrs. W

Thanks Mrs. W,

I haven't felt like that in more than 20 years. The butterflies, the flirting, the dreaming...

The unbridled lust and feelings of love.

You know, your relationship starts like that, but it always cools from that hopefully into a mature love.

This swept me completely away and I am shocked at how fast it happened.

SWW

Yes, SWW, that is what an affair feels like in the beginning - those brain chemicals are no joke...I'm sooooooo glad that you are armed with all the MB knowledge now...I know that helped to protect you...Best to end contact with this friend right now - you got that part, right?

Mrs. W

[/quote]

Yes, SWW, that is what an affair feels like in the beginning - those brain chemicals are no joke...I'm sooooooo glad that you are armed with all the MB knowledge now...I know that helped to protect you...Best to end contact with this friend right now - you got that part, right?

Mrs. W [/quote]


Uggg,

I know, I know, I know...

But I don't want to. It felt so good. I don't know if I can...

I won't do anything till I'm divorced, but I don't have to tell her NC do I?

Can I just ignore her texts some of the time and only talk to her every now and then and keep it short?

Eeep, I am making myself a bit ill...

SWW

SWW...You are standing on the slippery slope right now...Will you get off or keep sliding down? You know what you must do...

You are in a very vulnerable state right now and are not attracting the right kind of women anyway...Staying in touch with this friend is NOT a good plan...Not at all...

Mrs. W

Think with the head that's on your shoulders...

Mrs. W

A secret from me... A friend of my WW's who was advising me and supporting me telling me how wonderful I am with endless accolades and compliments started to..."arouse" my attention. I started calling her so that I could cry to someone and going over to her place to watch movies and such and it hit me that I was feeling attracted to her. I had thought a couple times about sex with her and "normally" I don't look at women’s breasts other than my wife’s...and I caught myself doing that multiple times. Or looking at her behind.

I've not called her or met up with her since that realization. It's amazing what someone fulfilling your EN's can do.

I just realized that I stepped away from her unconsiously. A coworker the other day mentioned her to me because I had told him about how nice she was too me...and he asked why I didn't keep talking to her. I didn't know why at the time.

Or as Mark quoted Bill Cosby,"You only have enough blood to run "one" head at a time."

SICK! NO!

"Can I just ignore her texts some of the time and only talk to her every now and then and keep it short?"

That right there is what every WW says to themselves I'm sure!

Okay, first if she really practices what she preached to your WW then she would RESPECT your decision for NC right now with her...She would admire you for it and completely understand...Actually her reaction to you telling her that you need NC right now would be VERY TELLING about whether or not she is the right kind of woman, no?

Also, are you sure that getting involved with someone that still sees your WW is a great plan? Lots to think about here, SWW...

Big can of worms from my vantage point...

Mrs. W

Ok,

I understand. But how do I go NC?

I have to be honest, my thoughts initially led to a flirting NC letter that would only worsen things. You know, "I have to tell you that interacting with you the past few days have awakened in me something that i am not comfortable with, i started to develop feelings for you that are unsettling. I need to go NC with you for awhile."

Read: I am pining for you and want you really badly.

Everything is coming full circle. I now understand why WS' don't want to send a NC letter, or when they do want to include a hidden message. Ugghh!

I have to say, this experience has made me have an appreciation for WS' who don't understand the hurt and pain they have caused.

And that is one thing my WW told me that really hurt me. She told me she would never judge someone who had an A. She had no right to judge.

I know it is wrong.

SWW

Don't make your abbreviation SWW = StupidWayWard...

Get a grip man. Don't be a manwhore...just because someone is showing you interest right now.

I'm going to say this: Stop analyzing your actions because your also going to "justify" them that way.

WW's know what they are doing is wrong, they eventually justify themselves. Stop what your doing send her a simple NC like this:

To (No endearments):

I am a married man and must honor my vows even as my spouse does not. I can not speak with or see you anymore so as to ensure no temptation to break my vows are present in my current painful situation.

(no endearments)

-SWW

DOn't lead on to a "future." After the divorce is final you can then contact her at your leisure.

I would ask what you really know about her. She was telling your wife how she was screwing up, but she didn't tell you what your wife was doing, did she? Do you know the circumstances under which her first marriage ended? Basically, Im curious if you think she is a woman of character? I wouldn't necessarily discount her because she is showing interest now. She didn't come on to you when you were trying to recover your marriage did she? She waited to express her interest until after she was convinced your marriage was over for reasons she had nothing to do with. I know many here will say "she is still going after a married man", but not everyone holds that black and white viewpoint, and her interest does not necessarily compromise her integrity and character.

I would absolutely not recommend you continue the flirty chat, but you already know that. But I'll dissent a little bit and say that I don't think NC is necessary. No flirting and sexually charged conversations should be avoided, but there is no reason you can't be friends with a woman so long as you can remain strong enough to keep your boundaries. Were I in your shoes, I would tell her (obliquely if necessary) that you have your own baggage to put behind you, and you need time and an official divorce before you would be a suitable partner for anyone. You may learn some very valuable things about her character that way, too.

After I served my wife because of her second affair, I had someone come on to me very strongly. I was attracted to her, but I put a stop to her flirtatious talk, never got together with her, and we remained friends.

I just see no reason that you can't have female friends, while you wait for your divorce to finalize. SWW, you have not cheated, and in my book you have earned the benefit of the doubt here. I think you are strong enough to be friends with someone without breaking your own boundaries.

If it's meant to be, she'll be there when the divorce is final. I'm also on the fence about the NC thing. I'd have to say, check your intentions. If you are out for short term gain, or to cover some hurts, or acting in a way you feel is 'wayward', then let the ink dry on the divorce decree first.

BTW, even though my marriage is not in an wayward/infidelity situation, I really know exactly what you mean. My husband and I are in such bad shape right now--we can't even have a conversation without arguing and without me walking away feeling like I again set off the hidden land mines. All a guy would have to do is actually listen to me and engage in a conversation without challenging every one of my thoughts and feelings and I think I'd be off and running like you. So I keep to myself mostly these days.

No, I dont think the above would be good.

How about, "hey S, listen, I really appreciate your being there for me so much during this whole ordeal of mine, and I am happy to be there for you. But right now, my thoughts and feelings are just really confused, and i think I need to just not be talking to other women right now while i get my divorce settled. I'd really like to talk once I am past that point."

???

SWW

sww,

Sorry if I missed the details of your M/D in other threads, but have either of you filed? How long until D happens? What's the big deal to have NC with this woman until after the D? You've already admitted your strong reaction to her flirting so why go there?

Maybe you are right. Maybe I should just keep it light and friendly and let her contact me. Never call or text her first.

One thing that is really weighing on me lately is I NEVER want to hurt someone else. I don't want to do something that will cause her pain. I don't even know if we are compatible. This is all emotion, no logical thought and i know that.

If i sent her the message I typed a few minutes ago she would think i am crazy.

SWW

Yes, SWW, I think that would be just fine! I don't think you need to write a formal NC letter as though you are a wayward that is trying to recover their marriage...Not at all...And really I don't think you need to put anything in WRITING for that matter...Remember, this girl is still ?friends? with your WW...You don't want anything that could be twisted into something that it's not to fall into her hands...

Mrs. W

Right, so you just SAY IT...Do not put it in writing/text...What you typed here sounded great to me...Very respectful and admirable...

Mrs. W

You can shoot her a brief email or wait until the next time she calls. You can keep it light. Going thru a D is a rough time for anyone so she should understand that you have a full plate right now anyway.

Ok,

Uggh (i keep using that and don't know why),

I am going to wait for her to call and chat a minute and then just tell her. That will be more natural to the way I am and she will get it i think.

You know what Mrs. W and others?

This really stinks.

It hurts too.

I hope i have the fortitude to do this.

I am sooooo appreciative of my MB friends. Only you guys understand this stuff.

If there is ever another MB get together I would love to be there.

SWW

Also,remember, if you're going through a D, in addition to all the stress, you're not getting your ENs met. So you are super vulnerable to someone meeting them.

Can you increase your 'hang out' time with your male friends and your family and try to get some of your ENs met that way until Dd is final?

I know.

What I think however is that I have been spending so much time with my other male friends and getting to where I feel good that I have let myself "move on" to the point where I feel, or felt, comfortable slipping into something because it feels good.

SWW

SWW,

I have followed your posts since the beginning but never posted to you. You seem to be a man who has your head on straight and you have taken so much crap. Don't stoop to their level, WW's, you are better than that.

I think Monc's post was right on. Read it again and think about what you are about to do.

SWW,

Be very careful that you don't become a statistic. Also be very careful with your reasoning right now. Anything you can think of that does not end your spending time with this woman is a justification, nothing more and nothing less.

Every thought you have been having is what a WS experiences. Every reason you can give why it isn't wrong (under current circumstances) is merely an excuse to not do what is right. You currently recognize that your feelings are running away with you, but having read enough of this MB stuff you know how that happens and why it happens and that it isn't magic when it happens and isn't something that is irresistible.

Oh, and Monc, it was Robin Williams who said that our problem as men is that we have two heads and only enough blood to make one work at a time.

SWW, I am sure you can conjure up a thousand reasons you should let this relationship continue in some way, shape or form. The question is as to whether or not it is right. Not will it be right a year from now or two years from now or some other time once your divorce is final and you have healed enough to GIVE back to a relationship, or will it feel like the right thing for the moment. Is it right?

Ever tell a two year old "Don't touch that!" Ever see what they do? They get as close as they can to what they aren't supposed to touch, inching closer and closer till their finger is a scant millimeter away. But it becomes the focus on what they should not do that rules their lives. All they can think of is what they cannot touch until they stop playing with anything else. What they can't have takes over their life until they get a swat on the bottom to break their attention on that temptation that is right before them.

Consider this a swat... :twobyfour:



Mark

SWW,

I think as much as she knows. As much as she can relate. You should tell her the truth why you need to avoid or limit contact with her short term. I get the impression your telling her what you were thinking/feeling, and the fact you need some distance from her will only work to your advantage in the future. If there were to be any type of future.

Just my .02 -JKT

Hey...ouch.

No thanks guys, you are all right. I did not hear from her today and i didn't call her either, so I'll just wait for her to call and then I'll tell her that I need to kinda...well I'll go back to this thread where Mrs. W told me what i said earlier was ok.

Hey Monc, I like that. SWW = Stupid WayWard. Hah! Funny!

I think this is kinda good though actually. I mean, I can have feelings for another woman other than my WW. For awhile I thought maybe that would never happen.

Maybe it means I am completely through with the grief part of the whole deal and can have normal feelings for another woman again?

SWW

No, you are not done grieving. Your raging hormones are masking your grief.

And no, it's not kinda good. It's really really bad. Evil, even. I hope that's not what you want and choose for yourself. Get far away from this woman ASAP.

And don't call. Write a letter and block her from all your avenues of communication.

Now that I have read what Mrs. W said, I would like to add that her concerns of putting things in writing are valid, and you should be very careful.

The main reason I still favor doing this in writing is it gives you a chance to let her know, without the possibility of her trying to talk you out of it.

Neak?

Evil????

Evil is acting on your sinful fantasies. I have not done so.

I know morality is not a relative thing.

I don't see what's wrong with feeling like a human male again after 2 years of an emotional wasteland. I don't see what's wrong with happiness over the realization that it's actually possible again.

I can't do grief any more. I just can't.


SWW

ETA: I don't mean to sound rude. I appreciate your feedback very much.

I am so glad you haven't acted on your temptation. That says a lot about you. Two years of not getting your EN's met is a long time.

However, giving a place in your heart to something that is evil, yes, evil - such as sexual fantasies about a woman who is not your wife, can only lead to heartache.

The nature of that temptation can be seen in the reaction it evokes in you...sounding just like a wayward. You even recognized that in yourself almost immediately. (Good for you!)

You are still at a crossroads. You can choose good, or you can choose evil. The details are negotiable, IMO, such as call vs. letter, NC for life vs. NC till the D is final.

But bottom line, continue toward the bright and intoxicating flame that has caught your eye, and you will get burned.

I hope that when the time is right ~ not yet ~ you will find someone who is worthy of you.

SWW,

Glad to see that you are not failing for these "my marriage is over anyway--I should just follow my heart" wayward-fog rationalizations.

What are you the day before your wedding? SINGLE!
What are you the day before your D decree? MARRIED!

If this woman is truly interested in you and a person of honor, she will wait until your are TRULY SINGLE...and respect you for it.

Just be careful not to rebound quickly into something unhealthy while you are understandably still unhealed, lonely, and needy for female attention, attraction, and affirmation.

Tread lightly and slowly, my friend.

Yes Neak et al.

Thank you.

I know.

You are right.


SWW