This forum appears to have a lot of advice from the non-cheating spouse. I would like to hear from the WWs out there. I had an emotional affair with someone I have known for 20 years. I have been married 10 years. I never believed in soulmates before now, and when he and I reconnected, it shook me to my core. My husband found out and we are trying to get through this, first with me cutting off all contact with the OM. I am having extreme difficulty doing this, crying constantly, can't function, everyone says I need to take medication. I feel like if this withdrawal period takes too long I will end up broken, unable to function and more importantly care for my kids.

I want to hear from people who believe they were in love with the OM, and either got over the OM, or tried and moved on in other ways. And, are there people out there that tried the marriage builder plan and it didn't work? And, how did you deal with the extreme sense of loss without punishing everyone around you?

I've been in your spot.

W/drawal sucks!! But, once you're through it, you'll be ok.

MB works!

How long has it been since you last had contact? How long did your A last?

Hi. I had an EA/PA 3 1/2 years ago with a coworker. I believed that I loved him. I could not imagine not having him in my life. I was the one who confessed my A, but even after D-Day, I broke NC twice. I felt as if my heart was ripped out of my body. In fact, my H ended up taking my to the ER because he found my suicide plan and the stash of pills I had. I have bipolar disorder, so that complicated things.

First, you will read about "the fog" on this forum, and it is very real. We WS's are usually fully enveloped in it, and it warps our thinking, our judgement, and our choices. I look back and cannot believe the jeopardy I put my family in, but it made perfect sense to me at the time. I cried many a tear. But it did fade. I realize now that what I thought was a true soul mate/love connection was a fantasy. It wasn't real. HE wasn't real. My H was. Our marriage might have been in the crapper, but H was the real deal. I had just made myself forget that.

Here is what helped me. I 100% owned all of my choices. No qualifying, no shifting blame. I took my lumps, so to speak. I journaled. I knew I couldn't expect H to listen to me grieve over OM. So I grieved on paper and to God. I went to IC, and because of my bipolar I do take meds. If you are having that much difficulty, short term AD's might help. I committed to do everything necessary to restore my marriage. Period.

I would say that it took us about a year before the pain wasn't there on a regular basis. I still don't think I have ever gone a day without thinking about what I did. H says he has.

Stick to NC no matter how you feel. Let yourself cry, but don't wallow. Make yourself stop going down mental memory lane - it just prolongs the agony. Find a good pro-marriage IC. Read Surviving an Affair. Do everything you can to show remorse to your H and meet his EN's. Answer his every question with complete honesty. Recovery CAN happen.

A few, random thoughts:

Recognize that what you're facing is basically withdrawal from an addiction. There've been studies done, which show that the infatuation of an affair has basically the same impact on brain-chemistry as crack cocaine. (And if you were in an emotional affair, then it basically doesn't matter if it never became physical -- the rush is there just the same, the addiction aspect is just the same.)

I actually tried to break off my emotional affair before it became a full-blown physical affair (because I saw that that's where it was headed & I knew it was wrong); but when my other woman pushed back, I was too weak to make my "no" stick, because I'd become infatuated, I was overempathizing with her, spending too much time on the phone with her allowing her to provide affirmations & need-filling that I should've been looking to my wife for. Essentially, I was addicted. During my affair, if you'd asked me back then, I'd have even said that I was "in love" with my affair partner as well as with my wife at the same time. And I told the other woman that I loved her, twisted as that sounds to me today. When she got found out by her husband, which forced me to a place where I felt I had to break off the affair, confess to my wife & try to save my marriage, I knew it was the right thing to do, but I still felt nauseated at losing the emotional companionship I'd had with the other woman... I missed the phone calls, the IMs, the e-mails, the little affirmations that I'd been getting from her almost every day for the previous 10 weeks. I missed being able to look forward to our next conversation or meeting, and I missed the e-cards that she'd send me, the jokes we shared. I missed that emotional stuff lots more than I missed the sex. Withdrawal just sucked. I hear ya.

For you today, knowing about this addiction aspect doesn't make withdrawal too much easier, but it might make you feel like less of a freak. Be prepared for a bumpy ride for the next few weeks, but hang in there, and stick with no contact.

I would strongly recommend enlisting some good friends who have the best interests of your marriage at heart -- they can be trustworthy couples whom you & your husband can confide in together, as a couple, or a pastor, or a good marriage counselor (careful, there are bad ones, too) -- but anyway, DO consider getting someone to HELP hold you accountable, so that you don't have to rely entirely on your own strength at this time.

Re: the marriage-builder plan, what my wife & I did (at the recommendation of our marriage counselor) was that we started reading the book "Surviving An Affair" together & discussing each section, and doing all the assessments & exercises. I strongly suggest that you do this. I think this book should be a prerequisite for obtaining a marriage license. It really helped us to communicate better & to be more attuned to one another. Recovering a marriage CAN be done, if you fight for it. My & Trust_Will_Come's marriage is better today than ever in basically every way that matters -- not because of my affair, but because of what she & I did afterwards to recover from it.

P.S.-- Oh... and that's the last thing: There's this man -- your husband -- who's basically just had his heart dashed to the ground, by the one very person whom he counted on foremost NOT to do such a thing. Put yourself in his shoes. Sure, he may have failed in his ways to communicate to you, or to recognize & fulfill certain needs of yours... just as you may have failed in some of your own ways toward him. And now he's facing the anguish of trying to "compete" for your heart with some fantasy-man in cyberspace, who's got no mortgage to help pay, no dirty laundry to dump on your floor, none of the baggage we call "real life" -- and he wants his wife back & yet is scared & doesn't know what to do or whom he can trust. By not kicking you out, he's picked that heart of his up off the dirty floor and placed it, bleeding & bruised, back into your hands. How will you treat it?

If you can swing it, go take a very long vacation with your husband. Sure, he won't be able to deposit much in your Love Bank, nor you in his, but you'll be together to get through this, and gratitude for the care you demonstrate for one another will last long after the pain of the end of this affair goes away.

I second the suggestion to read "Surviving An Affair". I sincerely wish my FWW would read it -- she has a copy on her iPhone Kindle Reader -- but that's not somewhere she seems comfortable going on her own yet.

Stick to your no-contact policy. Put extraordinary precautions in place to prevent further contact. Every contact sets you back to Day Zero again, and makes the pain last longer. If you end up in contact with the other man, discuss it with your husband and set up extraordinary precautions together so that that channel of communication is closed off forever.

You can get past this. I'm not a wayward spouse, but I've done my share of incredibly stupid and abusive things in my marriage. Don't underestimate the value of a spouse willing to have faith that you can change and fall in love again... even if they don't have faith that you can honor your word right now.

Tank, Welcome to MB.

I've been where you are now, and I know it isn't fun. You have a rough road ahead of you, but I just want you to know that it does get easier with time. It's very difficult being the wayward, because often, our pain is discounted, since it was self-inflicted. But that doesn't make it any less real or difficult to deal with.

I very much thought that I was in love with the OM. I too thought I had found my soul mate. It took 6 months from the time I revealed my A to my H for me to finally end it. I was so torn, and I felt very much as though I were in love with two men at the same time. I swung back and forth between the two like a yo-yo. I reached a level of despair I never knew possible, thinking I would never be able to decide. I contemplated suicide and even bought a bottle of sleeping pills to do the job.

Looking back on it now, I realize that what I felt for the OM wasn't love at all. Love is based on trust, honesty, and respect, and none of those things can be present in an A. An A is an addiction, and the withdrawal phase is the most difficult. It felt as though my heart were being ripped from my chest. But NC is pivotal. The longer you have NC with the OM, the more the pain will fade. It takes time, but you will get there, trust me.

What helped me, believe it or not, was spending time with my H during those early days of withdrawal. It really helped me to see how much he cared and really wanted to work on our M. The more time we spent together, just reconnecting and enjoying one another's company, the better I felt, and the less I missed the OM. I would suggest spending as much time with your H as possible. Don't talk about relationship stuff. Don't talk about the A. Not for now, at least. There will be time for that later. Try to spend some quality time together doing things that you both enjoy. Go on a date with your H, or even a little vacation, if you can swing it, just the two of you.

And keep posting here. This site helped me immensely and got me through some very tough times. MB really does work, especially when both spouses are on board.

Getting through w/drawals: You have to retrain your mind. Instead of allowing your mind to think of him, as you have done every minute of the day for as long as the A was going on for, you must tell yourself "No" when you think of him.

Even if you have to do it every damned minute.

Eventually you will get out of the habit of "reaching" for him in your mind.

Your A is an ADDICTION. A fantasy. And that's all it was.

Your BH is REAL. What you dreamt up about your "soulmate" was just unicorn and rainbow BS. Get through w/drawals and you will see we were right.

I'd say if you still believe in the "soulmate " deal, you would be best served by concentrating on your school work and homework ,and selling whatever Girl Scout cookies your troop has left.

I'll take a box of Thin Mints, my kids ate the last of mine.

On a more serious note, your soul mate is the one you choose to give your heart and soul. If you want your husband to be your soul mate, you have to give to him and only him.

As long as you are giving to another, or even thinking about it, you are not emotionally mature.

Marriage is work. Are you willing to do the work? If you put the same sort of effort into how you treat your husband, as you did thinking and communicating with your OM, you'll find that your husband is your soul mate.

Your soul mate is the one to whom you choose to give yourself.

That is funny..Yeah, SOULMATE..What a crock...DUDE

Yeah, to us.. we see it clearly, but when you're experiencing completely over the top feelings, you try to look for a rational reason for them.

Soulmate seems rational...

The idea of it being an addiction never crosses a wayward's mind.

Follow MB

No contact is number one. Followed by removing anything a deverything from your life that reminds you of OM.

Stop signs in your mind when he enters

When I was really low and wanting to make contact, I posted here. The se people helped me through it....

Not always sympathetic I might add.

it's a good old slog, remember you will not feel anything for your H whilst you are in withdrawl and any triggers will make you see him through affair glasses.

MB works.

I told everyone about my A - all family and all friends who knew of my " friendship" with OM. The shame each time I sawa one of these people kept me on the straight and narrow and I knew I was being watched for any wayward behaviour.

Lots of deep breaths and keep yourself as busy as you can - try to spend as much time wiht your H.

Remove everything that will remind you of OM ask any mutaul friends never to mention him or talk about him - my sis still sees my FOM every week but she never mentions him.

Good idea. Dr. Harley does recommend ADs for getting through w/drawals.

And send your BH here. So we can help him.

your sarcasm is not appreciated. I was hoping to receive helpful responses from mature people.

May I respectfully request that you appreciate the sarcastic remark. Why? Because it's largely true.

Soul mate is an emotionally immature concept.

Relationships are work. We are all incompatible with everyone in some fashion.

The question is, do we mean our vows enough to love them, love being a verb, regardless how we feel at any one moment?

If you put much stock in the idea of a soul mate, you are basically saying it's all about fate and finding the right match, rather than doing the work required to have a marriage.

Believing in soul mates is really little different from believing in the Easter Bunny.

What you learn when you become mature is that rather than there being an Easter Bunny, there was someone behind the scenes doing the work to bring about the holiday.

Apply the same concept to your marriage. If you want your husband to be your soul-mate, you have to do the work.

No work, no soul mate.

It's just that simple.

Her BH is here, he brought Tank here. He's "thedude".

Tank, you're getting very good advice.

I found it helped to put road blocks in my way so that contacting OM was next to impossible. Do you want to call or text him? Swap cell phones occasionally with your BH, whenever he asks. That way you won't be tempted to call or text, for fear that OM might call or text back to that cell phone while it's in your husband's possession.

Are you tempted to IM or email him? Put a key logger on the computers you use and have the reports emailed to your BH.

Precautions like this not only help you get through the worst of withdrawal (and yes it does hurt, it's a pain so deep it's physical), it also helps restore your BH's trust in you.

So think about all the ways you're tempted to contact OM and come up with ideas on how to prevent those methods of contact, and talk to your BH about it. Ask him to help you.

I found it helped me, whenever I found myself thinking of OM, to do something to deposit units in my BH's love bank. So if you find yourself dwelling on OM or missing him, do something to meet your BH's ENs. Feelings follow actions so if you break the feelings for OM with actions for your BH, your feelings for your BH will become stronger and the feelings for the OM will fade.

It takes time. It is SO worth it. I thought I'd made a huge mistake marrying my husband, and I could have made a list a mile long about why OM and I were so compatible. Looking back, the whole thing makes me feel ill. And embarrassed.

Oh, you said you and OM had known each other 20 years. I doubt it (if I'm wrong I sincerely apologize). You probably knew each other 20 years ago, and then reconnected recently. When you say "we've known each other for 20 years" it makes the bond sound bigger than it really is. Watch out for these verbalizations that mislead your thinking. Learn to recognize them and state the facts honestly. It will help.

I wasn't going to read this thread until I saw my wife getting mad and crying while reading it. People post very personal situations here with the hope of getting advice and guidance. The info is posted during emotionally charged times.

This is not the place for poking fun at people's feelings/ideas. If you can't post something helpful, then please refrain and show some self control. You certainly aren't helping.

I am a BW so you may not be interested in hearing from me versus the very good advice you have on some of the posts from WWs.

However, I did want to note that you responded to Zelmo and none of the former WWs and your response to him reads as full of distain and disrespect. It you REALLY want to know about some of the havoc you have created and are continuing with, take a read of Zelmo's story as well as some of the other BSes on this site.

Right now, you are so into your own feeling that it appears as though you have no idea about the other side of the story. And this is rather typical of waywards, but at some point if you want to pull your head out of the sand and recover the marriage you are in, it is a necessary self-reflection.

Best wishes to you. It is a difficult journey.

AM

thedude,

You do not know what is helping and what is not. Many FWW's have cried on first reading responses here. Hearing other people refer to what you thought was a beautiful relationship as degrading and selfish will usually shock a naive poster to tears. Those who are seeking to leave their bad behaviour behind will reflect on what was said and later see the value in it. A truly former WS will one day look at their first posts with embarrassment, and feel gratitude for the wake-up responses.

You were told to stay off this thread, and you should do that. Do not try to protect your wife from hearing the truth about her own actions.

That's good advice, and I hope that your wife too will heed such advice.

You see, there are many betrayed spouses who suffered at the hands of one who believed in the Easter Bunny, I mean Soul Mates.

So I respectfully point out that her positions may be just as painful to those reading them as she finds the responses.

If her attitudes are un-healthy and trigger hurts in folks who are here, that's the price of maintaining those attitudes.

She has the opportunity here to see how painful to others he beliefs are without LB'ing you, her spouse.

As a BH, I find the whole notion of a Soul Mate very offensive, given it was used to justify my ex-wife's affair.

What happened? The affair ended, maybe four years after it started. So much for being soul mates. There must have been work required to have a good relationship. Sadly for them, since both bought into the idea of a soul mate, they missed out on doing the work to have a great marriage with the spouses they betrayed.

Hearing soul mate isn't really painful to me in a debilitating fashion. But I do realize that it was painful when I hear my XW espousing how her OM was her soul mate, how it was such a mistake to marry me, babble, babble, babble.

So she has the chance to face how hurtful that concept is, without LB'ing you, and to be educated, if she chooses, by someone other than you.

It's great that you are here to defend her. I just hope you understand that her words may be offensive at times, until she totally drops the wayward mindset.

There will be those who call her on the offensiveness of her words.

I try to do it in a polite fashion.

The notion of a soul mate is offensive when one is talking about the OM, period.

tank, one of the beauties of this forum is that you will be able to see how others view you. This is especially important for a wayward spouse to see because he/she is entrenched in a fantasy mindset. Folks here are not going to tiptoe around you to make you comfortable with fantasies. That would be a grave disservice to you. Folks here will help you, but they won't help you foster fantasies about a sleazy affair.

To those who are objective observers, ideas like "soul-mate" are laughable and childish. It is important for you to see this and not lash out at objective observers. Some day when this is far behind you, you will come back and read what you said and laugh yourself, I assure you.

I welcome you to our forum, and would ask you to carefully consider the posts you get. They are objective, you are not.

you have had some awesome responses to your post.

I am sorry 2 posts have you mad and crying. If you were more familiar with this forum those 2 short posts would not hurt so much.

Please focus on the great advice you are getting.

There is an ignore feature for the 'sarcastic' posts.

Best wishes for your recovery.

By the was thedude, spouses should stay away from each other's posts.

I would suggest that you would call for counseling with the Harley's. Professional help beats advice on these boards anytime.

You have to take the good with the bad and the ugly here. You won't get sugar coating, but you WILL get help.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

thedude, this is a good sign, not a bad sign. Let us help her and please go back to your thread.

Especially when you consider the OM (or OP, if you will) is a lying, deceitful, unscrupulous POS who thinks nothing of ruining lives and families instead of trying to build relationships with people who aren't bound by oaths of fidelity and commitment.

tank, if you want to save your marriage, or think you might want to save it, this forum is a good place to be.

Most of the people on here are spouses who were cheated upon --whether emotionally or physically, but there's not much difference in terms of the impact upon the betrayed spouse. Not all of them have marriages that are recovering well, or at all. But almost all of them have something worthwhile to tell you -- even if it's only a sarcastic remark that helps get through to you the pain that your "harmless" internet affair was causing. And chances are, there are important kernels of truth behind even the sarcastic remarks.

When I started posting here, I got many very good words of advice, and also got my share of 2x4's across-the-head, which helped me realize some areas where my thinking or actions weren't up to par, and a heckuva lot of insight into the pain that one feels when one is cheated upon.

I still don't have it all figured out, and my marital recovery isn't done by any means -- as my wife said in one of her posts, things aren't perfect, and won't ever be. That's sin for ya. However, I've learned a few things that I'd be happy to pass along in the weeks or months ahead. You have to know that this isn't a place to come and offload your sense of guilt. There are no magic bullets that'll get you feeling better in just a day or a week or a month. It takes time -- most of all, time spent together with your husband, where you can give one another your undivided attention. And it takes work, it takes listening, and it takes discipline to express yourself to him in ways that avoid blaming him for your actions.

Are you up for it?

Hopefully, soon you'll be able to step back and get an honest chuckle at the notion of that anyone who's carried on an internet fantasy-affair & allowed it to damage her real-life relationship with her husband, somehow has standing to judge others for their maturity. Wouldn't that be the pot calling the kettle black? Recovering your marriage takes proactive humility, and it helps to practice & cultivate your ability to forgive certain slights. Yes, you might hear some things that make you mad at first. But don't care if they make you mad, if they might help make you better.

please don't take it personal. You two will be doing the same thing 2 years from now. Its(Infidelity)that childish/immature...DUDE

WOW! Thats good...DUDE

I know exactly how tank feels. When I went to my first AA meeting back in 1985, I went on and on with some crap about how it was someone else's fault that I drank. The members LAUGHED! I left in a HUFF.

But I quickly realized that bull**it was not going to work there; they were not going to aide and abet me by entertaining my bs. I realized quick that if I wanted help, I was going to have to knock off the crap and get honest.

I just wasn't used to people being straight with me and was SHOCKED when they didn't believe my crap.

That is how this forum is. Bullcrap has a very short shelf life here......THANK GOD.

tank, don't be upset at the reaction to the term "soulmate," please use that reaction as a learning experience. That is how normal people react to that phrase. It is silly and highschoolish and you need to know that normal, objective folks view it as such.

Does this mean you found no reply helpful?

Or did you find one post "offensive" enough for you to tell your BH that you "tried", but just can not tolerate posting on MB now?

When I first came here in the middle of w/drawals I barely noticed "tough" posts. I already felt so damned awful that no one could have made me feel worse.

I was so in need of others who had experienced what I had and could tell me how to make it out to the otherside, that I would have tolerated extremely harsh posts... if it meant I could get help from others.

Are you really looking for help?

Don't disappear Tank. This is going to be so much harder to get through on your own.

You are actually being treated with kid gloves here.

If you're serious about putting your life and your marriage back together, this is the place to be.

This is such an awesome statement. Brought tears to my eyes. Thanks glove - never has how I feel been so well stated.

Linus

Did you read all the posts or just the one that offended you? You asked for WSs and WSs responded. Several WS's have written mature responses but you are choosing to ignore them - ask yourself why?

I agree with Marsh on your motivation for being here and I doubt you'll be back.

Gg

Tank,

Please read GloveOil's P.S. a few times and understand that he is coming from the same side of the equation that you find yourself in. In fact. many of the people posting to you are former wayward spouses. Most came here in much the same condition you are in and some were treated much more harshly than you have been. Some showed up wanting to continue the affair and a few would never have dreamed of admitting the affair to their spouse.

I also understand that you think that your marriage could never be as awesome as this "soul mate" thing you have in your mind. As GO so beautifully pointed out, it never really was a real relationship as much as it was a creation that served the only purpose of making you feel good, mainly about yourself.

But let me assure you that by following MB methods, you and your husband can have a marriage that will blow your socks off. You can be happy, in love with each other and wonder what ever made you think it was any other way. And I'm not just talking about sacrificial love or any of that kind of thing here but a heart thumpin' can't wait to see each other love affair with you husband as the object of your affections.

The folks posting to you know the reality of where you find yourself because they've BTDT and got the scars from the beatings they took to get where they are today.

Mark

You need to suck it up and stop crying and pining over your "soulmate"(you know, the one, as Fred points out, that lied, cheated and did not care about either family((you really need to up your "soulmate " standards)). Maybe, just maybe, witnessing this and reading about it just might hurt your BH, ya think?
MY first wife used weird, amorphous, sophomoric terms like this. Her favorite was "connection". She had "connection" with her serial affair partners.

This type of gibberish will , hopefully, embarrass you at some point in the future, as Mel points out.

So , ease up on the Harlequin Romance novels and think about your hurting spouse.

Tank,

I think that Marsh is largely correct where your situation is concerned - I think if you are REALLY, REALLY honest with yourself you'll agree as well...

My thoughts, as a FWW, upon reading your initial post? Sounds to me like you are looking for "empathy"...that you believed that those here who have been where you are would dole that out in spades, instead of telling you how to fall back in love with your husband...I think you wanted to hear stuff like, "yeah, sometimes that happens and the OP is really 'the one'"...You were hoping to indulge yourself in a bit of reminiscing about the affair - the OM on your mind and fingers as you typed exactly what happened with him and why - getting to explain how "different" and "special" the two of you were [cough*baloney*cough] - ah yes, doing all that stuff feeds the addiction - I remember well...I think the responses you got from other FWSs didn't meet up with what you hoped they would tell you - or really what you hoped they would tell your BH - you wanted the responses to dash your BH's hopes that MB can and does work...But Tank, it DOES work - my husband and I are living proof of that...

Listen, click on my name here and go read my first posts back in 2005 - I came here asking if the feelings for my husband (Mr. W) would return [I did NOT believe they would] - I said some pretty offensive things myself - stuff like "I still have in-love feelings for OM" - oh and my very best fog laden thread title called something like "Clarity From Contact With OM" - UGH, I look back and can't believe what a total ninny I was! Go read those early threads of mine - and read them knowing a couple of things - MOST IMPORTANTLY, Mr. W and I remained married and today are very much in love - not only did my feelings for him return, they deepened due to working the MB program in it's entirety...AND, I "get" where you are coming from right now - the OM in our situation I had known for nearly all of my life - we grew up together and dated off and on for 9 years through high school and college - I understand that aspect of "meant to be" that I KNOW you are feeling regarding the OM in your situation - but really, if it had been "meant to be" then it would have been "back in the day"...seriously...stay here, really work the MB program and you'll come to get all of this...

You've had some fabulous posts made to you on your thread - please read them again and again...And really, you need to hear ALL OF IT...Even what you now consider offensive - it won't always be that way to you - like others have told you, someday you will read your defensive responses here and laugh at yourself - I have been there, so I know what I'm talking about where that is concerned...

I hope you will return and give your marriage the real shot it deserves...Looking forward to hearing from you...

Mrs. W

I think it says a lot about this program, this site, and the people here that a woman who's issue goes back almost 5 years and who's marriage has recovered still comes back and offers advice - and very good advice - to others who are hurting.

But where is tank?

Us FWWs have all been there (I guess), and remember feeling like you - although you probably won't believe that. Let us know what you think of the rest of the advice!

You've taken a good first step by asking. hang around a bit longer and see how you feel in a week or so.

I wonder how many people read the Welcome message that's on top of every page in this forum? This board was started in 1996 -- which is almost prehistoric in Internet terms! Considering the lifespan of web sites, eCommerce sites and the like, the sheer staying power of this site is a testament to its efficacy!

The truth hurts.

Devote yourself to your betrayed husband, and go to complete and utter NO CONTACT with this other human FOR LIFE!!!!

Do that and the addiction will fade faster than you think.

I'll jump into the fray -- but Tank, are you even here?
Before I spend time and energy composing a post to help you, I'd like to know you are at least ACKNOWLEDGING the people who are trying to help you....

You've only responded to one poster. This is going to require your active participation. Are you up for it?

That's the way Zelmo communicates, Tank. You read the post, but did you understand it? Slap on an extra coat of skin and hang with us for awhile - it's quite an educational place, here.

I'm here. I sincerely appreciate everyone's suggestions and advice. As many of you know, this is a very difficult time and I am trying to focus on not having an emotional breakdown as I go through withdrawal, try and work, and raise kids. So, I am sorry I haven't responded to everyone's posts. It's all I can do to read the information right now.

Take your time. Give it thought. Maybe go back over some of the advice you were given by various posters yesterday & ask questions.

Tank- I would suggest getting off facebook entirely. Because every time you log on, you're going to be tempted to check his profile, or see if he's tried to contact you, etc.

Facebook is more trouble than it's worth, IMO. That would also be a good show of effort on your part to show your husband your serious about doing whatever it takes to rebuild trust with him.

Instead of focusing on NOT having an emotional breakdown, focus on what you want to be.

Why?

When I played with cars more seriously, trying to go fast around a track, I learned the following: Your body will drive where you are looking.

So if I looked ahead, far ahead, around corners, not at my hood, I went much faster.

If you focus on not having an emotional breakdown, you'll end up having an emotional breakdown.

So look at where you want to be, not what you want to avoid and believe it or not, your mind will make sure you get there.

The hard part is maintaining focus on where you want to go and not looking at where you don't want to go.

Glad to see you here again, Tank.

You need to push yourself forward...throw yourself into this MB stuff so your mind has something it can focus on rather than OM.

Instead of getting angry and staying quiet about posts, let it out. Tell us what you are thinking. So we can help you. When a person has an A, their minds are so tangled up w/ lies that they can not think clearly. This is what we call "the fog" of an A. And it is very real.

You must understand that everyone, who gives their time to post to you, does so b/c they want to help you. This board is full of the kindest most generous folks you will ever meet. We KNOW how you feel and even think. We've been where you are. And affairs follow the same stinking script.

So please, stick your neck out, and tell us where you are right now...what it is your thinking so we can help clear away the fog for you. It is necessary for your healing.

So, if you think we are wrong to dismiss the closeness you feel to OM as something important. Then tell us. Be brave enough to be honest w/ us, knowing you're gonna get some 2 by 4s. They are needed. And will be delivered by folks who TRULY care about you.

Come on...talk to us.

Hi Tank ~ I'm going to suggest to you something similar to what Enlightened_Ex said above...[Btw, E_E has made some AWESOME posts to you on this thread and I do hope that you will read them more than once, Tank]...Anyway, something that I learned here that has helped me more than I have words to express is that "FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS"...So stop focusing on how "bad" you feel right now...Mr. W and I got through the withdrawal stage by going out and doing things - FUN THINGS - and not having "relationship talks"...We thought about the stuff that we did way back when we had first fallen in love with each other and we did those things - During the day, that meant matinee movies - COMEDY! At night, sometimes a comedy club, but usually it meant going out and partying - well yanno, we were 23 & 25 when we first met, so that is what we had been doing back then - lol - so we did all that we could to recreate that time...And I did NOT always "feel" like going - I am quite sure that Mr. W didn't either - but we did it anyway...And our feelings did follow our actions...

To prove this theory to you a bit Tank, think about what went on during the affair - where was your focus pretty much 100% of the time? On OM, right? Of course - so very naturally your feelings followed your actions - which I'm sure consisted of multiple emails, texts, fb messages and likely phone calls, right? Oh and don't forget to throw in all the "daydreaming" you did about him/the two of you, because that stuff counts as "actions" too...Now, imagine if all that time and energy would have instead been focused on your husband - guess where your feelings would have ended up? Yes, that is right - on HIM where they belonged...I know it's not "easy" at this point, but it IS very simple...You must take the first step, and believe it or not, the rest WILL follow...

Mrs. W

I've been thinking about you this morning, Tank...I read your husband's thread last night and his overall feeling is that you just want to feel better right now - that you came here looking for reassurance from FWWs that that would eventually happen...That resonated with me, because that is how I came to be a part of this community - ah yes, like any other wayward, my intial motivation was purely selfish - But hey, being here and reading all of Dr. Harley's stuff is what changed everything for us, so I think my original reason for coming here doesn't matter so much anymore - at least not to Mr. W and I...

So, how to feel better? Here's how things played out for me...I, like you, was MISERABLE at the end of the affair - I noticed Mr. W reading a book called Surviving An Affair and I was desperate for ANYTHING to help me feel better, so I picked it up and began reading...Shortly after that, Mr. W sent me a link to a thread here, which I read, but found another thread that captured my interest more - It was the thread of a BH fighting to save his marriage while his wife was in an active affair - It was a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG thread, but I read it, and as I did, I found myself feeling ANGER at the wayward wife and great EMPATHY for the betrayed husband - I began posting to try and help that BH in any way that I could...Only later did I actually associate myself with the wayward wife in that situation - a wake-up call of "OMGosh - that SELFISH SHREW in that thread is no different than *I* have been!" ***GASP*** So yeah, it took a while for things to sink in... I think that's pretty normal actually...During that time I began to read other threads too, Tank...What I found was that HELPING OTHERS helped to get me out of the "woe is me" victim status that I had taken on - it helped me to see that I was indeed no victim - well, a victim of my own selfishness and stupidity of course, but that is different - I also was shocked to see how very cookie-cutter that affairs actually are, and this helped me to see that my affair was NOT the special thing I believed it had been [ ]...During that time Mr. W also started posting, and the two of us found that discussing the problems of others here was beneficial to solving our own - and posting here helping others gave us some much needed common ground at the time too...This place was a Godsend for us...

Often I see waywards arrive here and have threads about themselves that go on and on for months - I can't help but think that they would benefit much more from reaching out to others instead of dwelling solely on themselves...Mr. W and I have learned far more about ourselves in posting to others than we ever would have by having long monster threads of our own...Others may disagree, but we know that is what worked for us...

I hope something I've said may help you, Tank...Looking forward to hearing from you...

Mrs. W

Strange how often a WW says this.

And almost always despises there new "Soulmate" within 5yrs weather there marriage was saved or not.

Tank

I know you feel as if you are getting "beat up" here but honestly, I haven't read anything that I interpreted as being harsh...at all.

I am attaching a link to my old thread--I was beat about the head and face and it hurt--deeply. However, I had to realize that everything everyone was saying to me was true. I had to take responsibility.

It's long but take a read when you get a chance: I was feeling exactly like you.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2185388#Post2185388

I hope that works...not sure if I've done it correctly.

You had received GREAT advice here from everyone. Mrs. W was a life saver for me and she truly knows what she is talking about as well as everyone else. (Even though I haven't heard from her in forever--Mrs. W!!)

So, pleaes don't feel like you're gettin beat up--just read some of the things people said to me but, it was quite the eye opener. I was forced to look at myself as what I truly was at the time.

It takes time...lots of it.

So, Tank...have you stopped reading and posting because someone said something you didn't like?

Honestly, I have read nothing here that even remotely resembles anything disrespectful to you.

I hope this is not the case. You will get alot of good advice here and there are many who can help you through this. You should expect some blows though--but, you have to have an open mind and see that these things are true and need to be said.

So, I hope you will keep with it and continue to read and post. I know that the situation is awful but this is the best support you can get...

I don't know that it helps, but what Gack says is a very common sentiment out here.

Right now, you are a love drug addict. Your drug of choice is the endorphins that your body puts out. OM is affected too. Less so than a female but will endure greater distance.

There is a cure: No Contact.

The moment that either of you recontact - your counter is reset. Your husband will to help by meeting your needs. This will NOT work if you make contact again. And you will continue to destroy your husband. As an addict, you care more for your fix than other people.

I know that your thanksgiving is done, but try a little cold turkey.

I'm back. Having a hard time this weekend, weekends are particularly difficult. Other than simply saying "it takes time", does anyone have any specific suggestions on how to stop crying, distract my thoughts, quit missing my other man. I'd also like to know how many of you former WWs, had emotional affairs with someone you previously dated and remained friends with for 20 years, as opposed to someone you met fairly recently or in close proximity to your affair. I'd like to connect w/ someone I feel is or was similarly situated as me.

MrsWondering wrote this to you:

Did you ever read the link to her first post that she provided for you?

StillDawn also provided a link to her first post. Did you ever read it? It began:

Did you read further, about how depressed and tearful Dawn was feeling? Did you keep reading her story to see how her feelings have changed?

I would say keep yourself as busy as you possibly can. What do you enjoy doing? Any hobbies? Take your kids somewhere and do something fun with them. Spend time (lots of time) with your H. Go out on a date, or for a relaxing weekend away. Stay away from anything (especially Facebook) that's likely to trigger thoughts of the OM.

The pain is going to be there for awhile. There's just no way around that. You can do things to take your mind off it, but it will not just go away overnight. What you need to realize is that staying away from anything and everything having to do with the OM is the only way to get through this stage. It may seem like one quick little email or phone call couldn't hurt, but it does. You get that "fix" and you feel better for awhile. But it doesn't last long before the pain sets in again. It's an evil, endless cycle, and the only way to break it is to stay NC, no matter how bad you feel or how much you miss him.

Why on earth did you remain friends with an old boyfriend for 20 years? That's a huge no-no, for this specific reason. My situation was different from yours. OM and I were friends for a year before our A started, but that didn't make my feelings for him (or the pain of my withdrawal) any less intense. My situation was complicated by the fact that I was pregnant with OM's baby when I ended my A. Talk about a connection that makes it very difficult to put the OM out of your mind and move on. Trust me, you're very lucky that this is ending before you find yourself in a situation like mine.

Tank,
Have you thought about what the payoff is for you to continue keeping these emotions going? Just possibly you are continuing to hold onto the EA in your mind. It's a choice you have to make - stay in the emotional state you are in or put your energy into trying to work with the man who has truly loved you, supported you and stayed by your side and is fighting to keep you. AND wants to work on having the best marriage and relationship with you.

You should read a letter a WW wrote to Harley...

Letter from Wayward Wife and actions to take

Gg

Whenever you find yourself missing OM, do something to meet one of your husband�s ENs. This serves two purposes:

1) It gets your mind off of OM and onto your BH
2) It puts your actions in the right place, and your feelings will follow

To help you with this...

Recovery Guide for WWs

Hi Tank -- glad you're back.

By way of introduction, I hope you're not expecting someone to tell you that the program for fixing your conduct will be different since you've known OM for many years, as opposed to if you'd only known him for a few years or months. Bad boundaries are bad boundaries. You & I both had 'em. It doesn't matter how long we had them, it matters that we fix them. Friendships with members of the opposite sex, in which the content of the conversations & interactions, or the fact of these friendships' existence, are kept secret from one's spouse, are inappropriate no matter how lengthy or brief.

So let's dispense with history. Let's talk about the present:

Where do you stand in following up on the couple of specific suggestions I gave you on p.1 of your thread? Namely:
"I would strongly recommend enlisting some good friends who have the best interests of your marriage at heart -- they can be trustworthy couples whom you & your husband can confide in together, as a couple, or a pastor, or a good marriage counselor (careful, there are bad ones, too) -- but anyway, DO consider getting someone to HELP hold you accountable, so that you don't have to rely entirely on your own strength at this time."
Have you done this?

"Re: the marriage-builder plan, what my wife & I did (at the recommendation of our marriage counselor) was that we started reading the book "Surviving An Affair" together & discussing each section, and doing all the assessments & exercises. I strongly suggest that you do this."
Have you started this?

Also, you said weekends are particularly difficult. Why do you think that's the case? Are you alone a lot on weekends, or do you have lots of free time then? Is that when you used to spend the most time in touch with your OM?

tank ( and GloveOil),

When I read your question, I thought something slightly different from what GloveOil suggests. I think that your own thoughts are that you and the boyfriend should have stayed together years ago. You made a mistake in parting company, because he was the one you were meant to be with, and your finding each other again and feeling so strongly is proof of this for you.

You first post also makes me suspect that you are looking for this kind of validation. You wrote:


Does "tried and moved on in other ways" mean "left the marriage for OM"? And why are you asking about people who tried the MB plan and it did not work (as if you'd find them still posting here)? How will they help you?

I think you are looking for support to leave the marriage, with or without OM. You need to explore the wrongfulness of this thinking.

tank, can you send your BH here?

We can really help him (and thus help YOU) through this. We can point him in the right direction and that will greatly help YOU too.

Tank's BH is here, MF...

HIS THREAD

Guess I'm joining the thread a little late, but I was a WW. This is what I would suggest...

1- First of all, don't let "harshness" deter you. Most of it is just people being honest and not letting you get away with self-delusion. Self-delusion is a huge feature of being wayward so it's important to smash it. Occasionally some harshness results from people having no tact, but don't let that deter you either because this is such a painful subject that you really need to focus on the content of what is being said and not so much how it is being said. (Me, I was a serial cheater and we get the heaviest 2x4s around here. In comparison you had a toothpick thrown at you, trust me on this!)

2- Part of getting through withdrawal is accepting the fact that the feelings in the affair were just a fantasy. Okay so you were involved in the past, but relationships that are on-again, off-again must have been off-again for a reason. And yes, the idea of a soul mate is pure superstition. Plenty of women divorce their husbands to be with their "soul mates" only to get divorced two years later because they found their "real" soul mate. (That was not my particular problem, which is why I had no desire to divorce my husband but my fantasy world was every bit as loony as "soul mate" world.)

Did you know it is a biological fact that the feelings of "falling in love" (properly called infatuation since it's not real love) do not last for more than three years? After that you need to deliberately re-create that feeling by systematically and deliberately doing all those things in courtship that you used to do without thinking about it. Real love is not butterflies in your stomach. Real love is building a life together.

3- Remind yourself how much your husband must freaking love you to death to not to run screaming to a divorce lawyer. Even if he threatens divorce pay more attention to his actions than his words.

4- Focus on trying to help him heal and you won't have as much time to think about the OM.

5 - Remind yourself that although recovery can be long (1-2 years, depending) it will happen eventually and result in a much closer bond than you could ever have with someone else. Your spouse is the one who knows you better than anyone else (especially once you stop hiding crap from him).

Ha, I just read your husband's thread, so I'll add one more thing.

GET OFF FACEBOOK! Since FB accounts are hard to delete permanently, try doing this after deleting the FB account. Not sure if it works, but let's see. Go into your email and change the password. Then get a new email and tell all your legitimate friends and family what the new email is. Get rid of your old email account that was associated with FB. Use email or phone to keep in touch with your legit friends and family. You can't rationally argue that saving your marriage is not worth this relatively minor inconvenience after all the pain you caused.

Hi Tank,

I'm a technician.

This is not about you, your circumstances but only the condition wherein you find yourself.

Do you want to hear a technical answer?

Imagine:
Sure, hit me with a technical answer.
My husband and I met w/ a therapist last week. We both like him. Still taking it one day at a time.

Thanks Marsh...

tank, all I needed to do was read your husband's first post on Dec. 6th...

Listen to me and listen to me good...THIS is why you are so depressed and things are so bad...you must get off FB. "One-sided contact" (you looking at his FB page, or mutual friend's FB pages...or hearing ANYTHING ABOUT HIM) will keep you in this horrible place.

I cannot stress this enough, we see this all the time around here...you will stay ridiculously foggy while there is ANY SORT OF CONTACT, even one-sided.

tanks's husband...please know how serious this is and how you must set some SERIOUS BOUNDARIES about NC. tank needs to get off of FB and not be in contact with ANYONE who knows the OM.

You will never move out of this mess otherwise.

Tank, my 18 month A was with my HS boyfriend. We went out for 5 years when we were teenagers and had the A 30 after not seeing each other for 30 years.

Ok, here we go.

My A was in 2002. If you read my first post which is in my sig line you will have read my history so there is no need to re-post it here.

When the OM dumped me I thought I was going to die from grief. I know everyone means well here, saying focus on other things etc etc but I actually know what you are going through. No, it's no palatable to BS's and it stinks but, you know something, Dr Harley actually acknowledges this "grief" period and calls it withdrawal. I was/am very, very lucky, I have a wonderful H and, even though he hated it with every fibre of his being, he acknowledged my withdrawal.

You may see that I have 8000+ posts on MB. A lot of those posts were asking how, how, how I could get the feelings back for my H. A lot of them are also silliness and humour, because of the wonderful, wonderful people I have met here.

My H and I have now been married for 35 years. We are happy we are normal we are in love. We had been married 28 years when I had my A. I always remember a wonderful FWW named Susan who wrote a simple post to me when I was at my foggiest. She said "you will get through this. One day it will all be in the past." At the time I thought "oh yeah, easy for you to say - not going to happen." But I also thought, yes, we will get through this. Susan is proof positive.

You have NO idea where I've been and how far I've come in my 8,000+ posts. You have NO idea how many posts reduced to me tears of self pity but also to tears of guilt and shame.

These people were my lifeline, my sanity - I love them all - I owe them more than words can ever, ever come close to acknowledging.

I've been you tank and I'm out the other side.

I also want to add that even though I am on a hiatus from MB, something moved me to write to you. It's been a long time since a WW or a WH has moved me to do that.

lol, I'm adding and adding here.

Glove Oil, Mrs W and I both had A's with old flames. I know what you're saying - that the way to fix things doesn't change whatever the circumstances and this is absolutely correct but, unfortunately old flames really do burn the brightest. Shirley Glass acknowledged it and I think that the "history" with old flames puts the A into a whole different, very dangerous category.

Tank:

R.E.B.T. very helpful in changing compulsive negative thinking

You can buy books but all required info is online, really.

It takes a few weeks/months- but you will be surprised.

Also- anxiety/AD's may help stop the obsessing thoughts.

Hope this helps.

Stop focusing on anything about OM.
You will stay stuck, if you choose to.

This thread will be helpful.

Managing Triggers by Mark

Hi Tank,

Technical details of a love affair.

When you meet someone and have your emotional needs met you make a decision that this person can be a suitor. Even their smell can persuade you that they will be suitable. Your body releases phenylethylamine which permits Dopamine and Norepinephrine to be injected into your system.

Dopamine will give a feeling of bliss. This is the "pleasure chemical". Norepinephrine will raise your blood flow, your pupils will dilate and your short term memory will improve. Your focus will be on your intended suitor.

If you orgasmed with your person of choice, the chemicals oxytcin, vasopressin and endorphins are released. This causes attachment. Ironically, the more attachment = less sex.

Now this is what your husband is dealing with:
A married relationship runs out of phenylethylamine after two years use. You lose the rose tint in your glasses. The phenylethylamine in an affair can last almost indefinitely.
That's right, your husband takes the flack while the suitor flies brightly in the wind.

What you are experiencing is a genuine drug withdrawal. We kid you not when we say that you are an addict. Long term association with "soulmate" makes it more difficult to subtract. You have developed "attachment". The crying and unhappiness is also genuine withdrawal.

Let us review:
You made a choice to associate with this person while you were married. Bad call. This why you are now in withdrawal.
Your husband is also deprived. His betrayal has been equated as more devastating than your death (death and divorce are on the worst end of the trauma scale). You can quickly recover. His recovery is not anywhere that short.

While you are missing OM, H's trauma is marginalized. Think about it:- How would you cope if OM were doing the same to you right now.

The technical stuff seems far remote to where you are right now. My sympathy.

Lots of sex with your husband will help both of you!

Google "Chemistry of love" -Howitworks for more details.

So, you now see that you are not alone. Didn't do the old flame thing but my A was 20months.

Like KiwiJ, I came here begging for help when i was so miserable and sad about losing OM. I got some great advice.

The thing that worked best for me was the visualisation of a stop sign the second he entered my head, that would then give me time to change my thoughts to something nice about my H. And that was sooooo hard aswell - to think something nice about H after I had been demonising him to justify my A for such a long time.

Little things:

Make a list about all the good things about your H, however tiny. Keep reading it and reading it and then if oM pops up visualise that stop sign.

It will pass. Just keep away from FB

Thanks, Kiwi --
I don't have any experience upon which to disagree with what you're saying, and I haven't read Shirley Glass. I wouldn't touch any of my ex-GFs with a 40-foot pole, but I know that it's not that way for everyone. (In fact, I learned, during my A., that before my OW was into her A with me, she'd carried on an affair with her ex-BF from high school... so I've seen that it happens.) But I just am skeptical that it necessarily makes recovery more challenging, or less so. Sometimes the flame that burns hottest is the one that's nearest-- and re: these long-ago exes who are hundreds or thousands of miles away, I'll posit that an affair with a more local OP of more recent acquaintance can be just as compelling or more compelling to a wayward. For instance, my OW decided she wasn't getting enough of her needs filled by her ex's occasional business-trip layovers, since he was down in Florida, and that's when she started coming on to me. [Digression & Disclaimer: I fullly appreciate that my A wasn't my OW's fault, but rather, 100% mine.]

Anyway, sorry, hope that wasn't too much of a t/j -- I think the bottom line for tank is that she needs to buckle down, do the tough work that recovery requires, attend to her H's needs, & get communicating with him about her own needs. She doesn't have the luxury of succumbing to any temptation (which I perceive to be in play here -- apologies if I'm mistaken) to seek excuses in the fact that her OP is a longtime flame. I know well enough from my own bad behavior that sin hurts the sinner among others, but this is no time for the indulgence of a self-pity party. Her husband is the one who deserves 100% of her pity.