Can Anyone Tell me when I will be able to accept that my M is really over?

I'm having the hardest time accepting that my H has truly given up and chosen OW over me and our family. He's currently living in our home (which is up for sale). I'm to move to an apartment February 2. We made it through Christmas, although it was tough. I still love him in spite of all that's happened over the last 10 months. Is he still in the fog or is this truly the end? We see a lawyer on 1/3/02. My H told me last weekend that we should just do it quickly, so that I can move on emotionally and him too. Then he proceeded to tell me that very often, people remarry their X's. He said he truly wants to become my friend again, and that what might happen, is that he'll decide he wants me back, by then it will be too late. Why does he say this stuff? I need help here, guys. I can't talk him out of the D at this point. Do I just need to accept at this point and begin to move on?MOM [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

OMG! MoM, my H said the exact same thing. That his family has a history of re-marrying their ex's and we may follow suit. He also said that it may very well happen that by the time he wants me back, I would have moved on.Our H's have the same script.MoM, I think the reason it's so hard for you right now is you're still in transition state, you're not truly separated yet H is trying to act as though he is. You can't distance yourself from any of it, because it's right there all the time with you two living together.This must be so hard on you. I'm really sorry for the stress you must be coping with.Know that I'm thinking of you and saying prayers for your situation. You never know what can happen, MoM. Maybe God has you two still living together for a reason. Love,
Jo

Thanks Jo. I knew you'd answer, as you've been right where I am now. It just hurts so much to see him there, knowing he's stopping by OW's place every morning before work. He's never been the way he is with her; with me. We have 37 more days together; I don't expect any miracles to happen as most of the time he treats me as if I'm an annoyance. Part of me looks forward to moving out; but most of me is dreading it. Got to go home now.Thanks again, Jo. You're amazing!MOM

Hi MOM. I wish I had the answers for you. I'm certainly no expert here. I know the past 10 mos. must have been incredibly hard for you. You do need to move on for yourself. At this point I think you need to put yourself first. Your H saying things like lots of people get remarried seems to be a way for him to think that you will always be there with open arms should he decide to recommit to your M that's just my opinion. Have you considered plan B? I know it's easy for me to say that you will be okay. Time heals. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Hugs and prayers
cybil

MoM,As long as you are in the same house with your H it will be very hard for you to move get a grip on what is happening to your marriage. Your current setup is very unfair to you. Why are you moving from your home instead of your H? This may not be a good move.As for he remarry thing.. It’ s just a smoke screen. He’s still in a fog and afraid to commit to one thing or the other. So it’s a way to keep you on a string. Do not hold on to such nonsense. While there is a possibility of remarriage, it is remote.RE: I can't talk him out of the D at this point. Do I just need to accept at this point and begin to move on?Who is paying for the divorce? Making the lawyer appointments? Etc? If you do not want the divorce you should not do anything out of the ordinary to facilitate it. As for seeing a lawyer on 1/3/02. It is a joint appointment? Ah, this is not how divorce is usually done. Is this an attorney that you have both known for a long time? You need an attorney who will look out for your own interests. Even if once attorney is used to draw up the papers, please get an independent attorney to look the papers over for you own good. If he wants a divorce there is no reason that you have to make it easy for him. Let him see an attorney, draw up a settlement agreement, take it to your attorney for review. Though your H may want the divorce, it sounds to me like you need some time to process this. So do not let him rush you.

MOM,My heart goes out to you as you are about to make some very important and painful decisions. If only we could get inside someone else's head and know their true motivations.If your H has decided to procede with the D, do you really have a choice in that or is it legally out of your hands? Yes, people do get remarried, so there is always hope. It is never too late. Since you still have many doubts, I surely would not make this quick or easy. You said you were seeing the lawyer together? Do you have your own lawyer? Using the same lawyer usually means that the divorce action is acceptable to both spouses and that the laywer has the green light to finish up as soon as possible. You need someone to protect you.I still see your H trying to tell you what to think, though, to manipulate you. He tells you it is good to get the divorce quickly so that YOU can move on emotionally, that he MIGHT want you back (This is sooo hurtful!), that he wants to be your FRIEND. This is all fog, for sure. H is looking at things totally on his terms. He is still rationalizing. It seems very condescending to me. You fit into the plans however he sees fit.MOM, this is your life. Search your heart and decide what it is that YOU want. Do you want to take this slowly? Do you want to give your H more time to figure things out? Or are you convinced that he truly no longer wants his M? I wish someone could make a wise decision for you, but only you can do that.My idea is that if you have the slightest doubt, take it really slowly and don't give up. Don't make it easy for H to break up your family. Hugs to you,
Estes

MOM,Don't fall for the "let's get this done quickly so you can move on" line. This strategy is for him, no you. He wants to move quickly so he can sidestep as much guilt and reality as possible. If this isn't what you want, don't help him. Do it at your own pace. My W tried for 6 months to get me to sit down with her and go over the specifics. She also wanted to use one lawyer. I refused and she finally filed on 11/4. Guess what? She hasn't said a word about it since. I finally had to respond to the paperwork so I did.
I contested her grounds and I also counterfiled on the grounds of adultery and mental cruelty. Why did I do this? First, to get the truth (she's never admitted anything). Secondly, to buy myself some time for reality to rear it's ugly head.This isn't what I want, so if my W really wants this it will be on my terms. If she's willing to admit what she's doing, she'll have the freedom she desires. But, admitting anything is something she's trying desperately to avoid.Also, two other points:

1. Do not leave! He wants out, he should leave.2. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, use one lawyer. IMHO, it's unethical for one lawyer to handle both sides of a D. It's a conflict of interest. Have your own lawyer, working for you and looking out for you. Also, cancel the joint appointment. Make him do the dirty work himself. I'm all for amicable divorces if both parties want it and an A is not an issue. However, under the circumstances there is no reason it has to be amicable. There will come a time when it can be, it doesn't have to be now. Divorce shouldn't be easy. It should be the hardest thing you have to do, that's how you know if it's the right thing to do.sad dad

MoM,I agree with everyone on this, don't help your H facilitate this D if you don't want it .... MAKE HIM EARN THE DIVORCEMake him do all the work, he wants it, it's his deal.Lv,
Jo[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

EXACTLY what I have been saying for weeks...(months?). If he wants the divorce, let HIM go get it. Do not do the work for him, especially if you have any doubts or reservations whatsoever. Just because you agree with the terms of the divorce and work for attorneys, it is still no reason to handle all of the dirty work for him!Please listen to what these people are telling you.

I agree with what everyone else has posted. Don't rush this. A divorce that one person doesn't want should not be rushed.What is the hurry? Even if you are divorced, don't you think you will still be going through lots of strong emotions. Too bad if he wants it over so that he can get on with his life...take it slow and get your own lawyer.Take Care...this is tough and you will need to be strong!!

MOM,Ditto to everything above; I can't say anymore than what's been said about letting your H do all of the work to get out of the marriage. But also remember to protect yourself and your joint assets. If your H is serious, there might be a time when you're up against the wall. You might want to prepare yourself for this, just as a matter of precaution.Question: Would you want to marry your H again, if he divorced you for another woman?I know how I'd answer this question, but I'm interested in how you feel about it, as well as others.belld

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by belldandy:
Question: Would you want to marry your H again, if he divorced you for another woman?I know how I'd answer this question, but I'm interested in how you feel about it, as well as others.belld<hr></blockquote>
The only way I would even consider marrying my XH again would be he'd have to do the following:

Became a devout Christian
Ended all contact with OW (no exceptions)
Lived on his own for 6 mos and we date
Agreed to a life time of counseling, both IC and MC

How's that for starters, Bell?Jo

I'm glad I picked this thread to read, right now, funny how the Lord leads us to things, isn't it?MoM,I was feeling very much the same as you, even considered calling a lawyer today to just get it over with, as I was feeling like I can't handle this why am I being such a baby, he doesn't want to be with me so why am I hanging on so hard.Then I read this thread, I put 20 years into this marriage and it is going to take a while to dissolve it and I don't want it dissolved.So MoM I agree with above advice and take it to heart for myself. I don't want to be his friend I am his wife!!!Thanks for the thread it strengthed me!!!Dawn

So the question was raised before about can a marriage be restored if only 1 person wants it? No. Then the flip side is, can a D be done easily if only 1 wants it? No. Hm..... ok with those odds....let's see.... I vote for being neutral. Don't say you will fight it just don't say anything. He wants the D, let him go get it. I know when I did that, it threw him for a loop. You know when we can unsettle those in the fog they tend to lose their footing and waffle a bit. Keep him guessing. Don't let him know how you feel unless you see him coming around. Be careful sometimes fogese school teaches them to be nice to the BS just to find out what the BS is up to and then wham.... usually the OW starts to put pressure and we are the bad guys again.Just give him the look and listen. Don't give your position away. They will think of you more that way. Trying hard to figure you out. Don't you want that?L.

I agree with what others have said. First, why are you moving out? Usually it would be him. Second, don't use a common lawyer. Where I am I don't think you can even do that. Also, let him do it if he wants a divorce. Make him do the work.Like you've been told, it would be very hard to come to grips with your marriage ending while you are still in the same house. My wife stayed here for 5 months after saying it was over, and I know that I didn't start the process of accepting and moving on until she moved out and I could establish my own life and just be without her.Having said that, you don't have to give up. But if you end up being apart, time will then help you move forward in whatever way you do.

I would like to thank you ALL so very much for all of your heartfelt responses. I will try to answer all the questions/comments here.1. We are selling our home because the mortgage payment is VERY high; neither of us can afford the house without the other's income (even with child support, while he was gone before, I went further and further into the hole on my own).2. We have huge credit card debt (both of us); selling the house will allow us to pay off all credit card debt; thereby giving us both more to live on (and him more able to live close by so that he can be an active participant in our children's lives, which I want). 3. WE ARE BROKE. We both agreed that getting our own attorneys and fighting over things (we have NO assets, we agree on the child support, custody, etc.) would only cause us to spend the profits from the sale of our home to be used up for attorneys' fees, and we don't want to go into our separate lives broke. If we use one attorney and agree on things, we are saving much money that can later be spent on our children (we have one graduating in 2002, going on to technical school).4. The attorney; the attorney is my attorney (I worked for him for 5 years), and he is doing all of the work pro bono, meaning all we have to pay for is the filing fees. He will, of course, tell my H that he has every right to have another attorney review all papers, to make sure he's not getting screwed.5. I do still want my M, but arguing and getting angry with my H has only pushed him further into OW's arms. For the last few weeks, I've managed a really good Plan A. It's helped ME tremendously, although I think my H is currently too in love with OW (so he thinks) to even notice. 6. I have spoken privately with my attorney and have asked him to send all papers to me first for review. He is aware that I plan to stall on this as long as possible. I will move out on February 2 and the attorney will have the papers delivered to my new apartment. The reason the kids and I are moving first is because where we live, there are only 2 apartment complexes with 3-bedroom apartments. They don't come open very often, so when one came open for February, it was important for me to take it. We are praying that the house will sell in January, so that my H will only be in the house one month more. He's already been approved for his own 1-bedroom apartment, and they come open more often, so we are not worrying about whether there will be a place for him or not.I believe all of you that it should be harder for my H, but in making it harder for my H, my children and I will end up suffering more (the costs, etc.). I don't wish to put them through anymore.I am trying daily to put my focus, faith and trust in God. God can and wants to restore my M. God has allowed me to make it this far. He's shutting my mouth when I shouldn't use it. I give him all the praise for that. I am asking for God to guide me each and every day. I know that for now, God wants me to focus on my walk with him. He's got big changes to make in me. Then, if he sees fit (and I pray daily for this as well), he can turn my H's heart back to me and his family. I've stopped trying to do that, as everything I've done to this point has only pushed him further away.I am greatful for all of you and your support. I've fought for 10 months now, to no avail.In answer to belldandy's question would I want to remarry a man that left me for another woman? I'll give Resilient's answers here:
Only if:He Became a devout Christian
He Ended all contact with OW (no exceptions)
He Lived on his own for 6 mos and we date
He Agreed to counseling, both IC and MCI have faith that if God wants that for me (and I know God HATES divorce), that it will all be given to me when God's got ME where he wants me to be.I thank you all again. I agree with those who have said that it will take us being apart for me to start to heal. It will take us being apart also for my H to realize what the consequences of all of this are.PEACE,MOM[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Myownme ][ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Myownme ][ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Myownme ]

Mom,Like you I wonder when I will really accept that my M is over. I guess for me it will be when STBX marries the OW. I filed for D when he packed our house in Singaporeup & had it shipped back to the states after I already left for homeleave in the states & he went to live with OW. This was after fencing sitting for 2 yrs, even going so far as moving to Singapore for the job he always wanted & to try to work things out. My STBX can do anything he puts his mind to & if he ever tried to break from the OW, is was till the 1st time she called & cried how much she loved him. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Even though I filed in June we haven't gotten very far in D process. I stall, he does nothing to push me along, why I don't know.But I guess for me it will finally be over when he marries her.Like you & Jo, if for some reason, which I don't think will ever happen, he wanted to come back, he have to do all the things you listed & maybe more.I hope you and your children find peace & joyI haven't fought STBX on all the things I should because of the boys. It is hard sometimes to balance your needs against the needs of your children. Good Luck

Hi MoM,Altho you may already know the five steps of grieving, I thought I'd post them here again:

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

You will continue to cycle thru these MoM, until eventually you'll be at peace with acceptance.And personally I believe that the longer you are/have been married, the longer it may take you ... hence several cycles.You are in my thoughts, MoM. I wish I could do more to help.Love,
Jo

MoM,
I understand now why you are taking the path that you are. Your reasoning makes sense, sadly. I think we resist acceptance because we finally have to admit to ourselves that it is really over.
Jo,
Can you talk more about the "several cycles" you mentioned? Do you mean people back up and repeat some of the stages? Can a person actually DO anything to hasten the acceptance stage. (My son seems to be solidly into the depression stage.)
Did you chose to go about your life the best you could, then one day realize that you were not agonizing about things anymore? Or were you a little better each day? Or was it a roller coaster?Wishing everyone better times,
Estes

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
Jo,
Can you talk more about the "several cycles" you mentioned? Do you mean people back up and repeat some of the stages? Can a person actually DO anything to hasten the acceptance stage. (My son seems to be solidly into the depression stage.)
Did you chose to go about your life the best you could, then one day realize that you were not agonizing about things anymore? Or were you a little better each day? Or was it a roller coaster?Wishing everyone better times,
Estes<hr></blockquote>Hi Estes ....I can only speak for myself as far as what stages I cycle thru (still cycling BTW) but I always re-start at Anger and seem to hang there for a long time, then bargaining and then hang in depression long as well, and then FINALLY get to acceptance (relief).Most times the cycle starts because of a "trigger", you know, like I hear from or about my H or I see, smell or taste something that reminds me of H or the A. I have learned the reason I languish in the anger and depression stages are I have never learned how to express anger in a healthy way, I internalize it ... blame myself and self loathe (self esteem issues I guess) so naturally the depression stage is just as intense and long.What I've also learned is after each cycle the next cycle is less severe and shorter in duration. Thank God!To understand what I'm going thru (steps of grieving and why) has helped me tremedously. I so look forward to the acceptance stage, each time the acceptance stage is more freeing and hopeful.Estes, what helped speed up the cycles for me in terms of less severity were anti-deps (Welbutrin).I kicked and screamed about taking anything, but found myself so depressed I had to do something. I thought I could and should get thru it naturally, and thought perhaps the anti-deps might numb me, but they have allowed and enabled me to feel the stages, but not sucuum to the profound hopeless feelings. It's not anywhere as severe as it use to be, but still does hurt.I'm so sorry about your son's depression. I know it feels hopeless to be in that stage. And "yes" what I described to you up above does "feel" like a rollercoaster. Is he on anti-deps, Estes?Jo

HI My OWn ME, I really like your name... and that it spells MOM> Thanks for contacting me earlier and being willing to email the ebook, you are the sweetest.. need to ck my email.I feel for you and I will pray for you.Dearest Father, Guide MOM as she goes through these next days of her marriage living with the husband she loves- let her love and devotion to him shine through in all that she does and doesn't do in the next days. Help her H remember how much he once loved her, and that they are part of a family together and always will be regardless of the legal marriage or divorce.... GIve her strength in the pain she is in Lord, and help her be strong in these challenging days.
We know that you know best Father and turn to you for strength in knowing that you will guide us.MOM, I heard some wonderful advice today at my alanon meeting. I may not like the situation I am in, but I can like myself in it.I love that, I am going to start to live this statement... thanks for being there for me, and I will continually ck in to see how you are when you post. thanks and GOd Bless you.Hugs, HONEY [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

MOM, also I am with everyone do not lose your home to him.. let him move out...Maybe there is more reason why you would move, if so, let us know the details, i am sure you will get feedback... would like to know why you would go if he had affair?Also, get your own lawyer... I am working part time for one, and going to be able to barter my work for his time.. you never know- you can find ways to afford it, and if it is his deal, he files first and you have to respond... you may be able to get him to pay for everything in the end...Also, there are womens organizations with free legal aid... I have foudn them in my city and am thinking of getting on the list for them... often you have to wait.. but for women who cannot afford lawyer. and need to be treated fairly in this type of situatiaon. thanks, honey [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Good Evening MOM, Jo, and Everyone,Thanks for the explanation of the cycles. It makes sense. Thanks to SAA, S knows about the benefits of antidepressants. He hasn't chosed to take them at this point. They can be a God-send.As you may had read in my posts, DIL filed for D and moved to a neighboring state in May. Total shock, no clue about A. D-day in one month later. Separated 8 months, plan A by S, even MB weekend. Most recent contact w/OM Dec. 13. S moved to her town Dec. 17. Got hit with reality check, that she hasn't made any signifcant changes. He's now sleeping on the couch and being told his moving in has turned her world upside down. = depression. While they were separated, he could maintain hope. Now that they are back under the same roof, I think S will reach acceptance rather quickly. He's tried so hard. Grandson is so messed up. It's so sad. Heck, I'm depressed. It's like I've been tending a loved one hovering at death's door, hoping against hope that they'd survive but unable to do anything to make a difference. I think all of us know that feeling. I think I've reached the acceptance stage of grieving for S's loss of family. I hope S reaches that point soon, too. Then he can start to heal.MOM, I think that once you are in your new place you may actually feel some relief. It must be awful for you knowing what he is doing and being constantly reminded. Forgive me for digressing on your thread. One day I realized there was only so much a BS can do no matter how much he/she wanted things to be different. That's not to say I like it, but I finally said, "So be it. He can't change her." Of course, my pain is insignificant compared to yours. However, my small pain allows me to share your great one. Take care,
Estes

Sing,
Thank you for thinking of me, even in the midst of your incredible pain. The only explanation I can come up with is that they have NO clue of the pain and agony they are causing us. Knowing my H, I believe even if he ever understands what he's given up, he is much to far gone to ever admit it. At this point, he is using pot, alcohol and of course OW, to block out anything REAL in his life. I'm so sorry you're having to go throught this. My prayers go out to you.Estes, Jo, Honey,Thank you so much for all the advice, information and concern. I really appreciate it. Jo, I have gone through the stages of grief, because my first husband committed suicide. I was 23 and we had a 4-month-old son. There was an A involved there, too, but my H could not handle what he'd done and decided to check out. I have to say that I went through the stages at that time much more quickly than I am going through them now. A death is much more immediate and final.Estes, you are a loving, caring mother, mother-in-law and grandmother. You son is so lucky to have you in his life. I truly feel he NEEDS to get on some anti-depressants. My doctor has put me on Celexa, and there are virtually no side effects. This can help to "even" him out some. Like my doctor said, it's not a "happy" pill, but it does help with some of the anxiety.Honey,
In answer to your questions, I did post that the reason we're selling our home is that neither of us can afford to live in it (and take care of maintenance, etc.) by ourselves. Our credit card debt is pretty high, and we are going to pay all of it off with the proceeds from the sale of the house and start fresh, each of us, on our own. My H will be paying child support and living nearby so he can continue to participate in his children's lives. I am moving out first because 3-bedroom apartments do not become available very often, and so when one became available for February, I took it, because I had to make sure that when the house sell, we had a place to live. We live in a nice area, my son is graduating at the end of the school year, and I wanted to be able to keep the kids in the same school, so our options were few.As for my H, he has already been approved for another apartment complex (about 3/4 mile from our apartment), and the 1-bedrooms become available every month, so once the house sells, he'll have a place to live.I do have my own attorney. He's working for my interests, but my H and I really aren't fighting over ANYTHING, so to save money, we are using my attorney. We don't have any assets, other than what we will get when the house sells, we have agreed on child support amount, custody, etc., so I do not see any reason to spend thousands of dollars on attorneys' fees.I'm a little sad this morning. My H announced he was going to see his sister and his mom today (yeah, right!). It's been so hard for me to realize that he's already got a life outside of our marriage, and now that Christmas is over, he really does not want to share anytime with me. I made the mistake of asking if he wanted company on his drive; he said "NOPE." It hurts to know that even though I know that he's seeing OW (whenever possible), he still feels the need to lie to me when he leaves the house.I will just keep myself busy -- maybe go visit a friend. We have to be out of the house for an hour and a half this afternoon, as we have a showing on the house.Take care all and know that I truly appreciate all of you!!!Love,
MOM[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: Myownme ]

I am sure you have thought of all of this, but just in case....What if you move into the 3 bedroom apartment and the house does not sell for a while? Will you not be going further in debt?Have you considered that maybe you don't have to sell the house and split the debt totally? If your husband had been willing to give up the affair and work on the marriage, there is a good possibility that the divorce would not be happening. Because it is his choice, I would let him shoulder a larger part of the debt. If he ends up married to the OW they will be a two income family, and you will be single with three kids. Could you tell him that you will assume responsibility for the house and house payment, and he can assume responsibility for the greater part of the debt? Once you sell your home, and use your equity money to pay off debt, it will be hard to save and purchase another home...etc.... Does the OW own a house? Chances are, given the opportunity, the affair will run it's course... but if NOT, you husband would not have the kids and worries of housing if he moves in with her.Just make sure you take care of yourself...and if you are trying, let him suffer the consequences. Do not feel that you have to shoulder half of the burden.

Thanks Susan,
He is taking the majority of the debt. He's taking the debt he created, and I'm taking the smaller debt that I've created. I do not want to stay in the house. I am bound to my lease in the apartment, and frankly, I do not want to take care of the house. Even if I cancelled my lease, I would still have to pay the first month's rent at this point. I DO believe the house will sell this month. The realtor says it's a great house, great price, it's just that we put it up at the slowest time of the year (holidays). My H is getting help from his mommy, so I am not going to have to worry about him and the house. Yes OW has a house. If my H ends up there, that's his choice. I'm really at a point where I HAVE to totally let him go. He's making it clearer and clearer to me each and every day that he has no feelings for me whatsoever. I've become only the mother of his children, the housekeeper and grocery shopper. I think my heart is becoming harder as the days wear on. The lies are too much. He left Saturday to go up to his sister's house. He was gone 6 hours. I know dawg gone well he went to see OW, and it's become so common place, it's like it doesn't even matter to me anymore. I'm actually looking forward (most of the time) to getting out now. Thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it.MOM

I do understand that, and if anything were to ever happen to my husband, I would not be able to keep up a house and a yard. I worry for you that you are not getting your fair share. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] But, I do think you are doing the right thing. I think you need some rest and peace and you can't get that living there with him.I think he has a lot of issues that need to be addressed BESIDES the affair. For instance, alcohol and also the pot. He may see it as no big deal, but fact of the matter is, it is illegal. He had more than one addiction. Hopefully he will eventually gain the strength to see this and overcome them.