I just want to know. According to my WS, nothing I do is going to change his mind. If I show affection. It isn't genuine. Unlike my H, I don't do things I don't want to do. I do want affection, but he doesn't believe it and apparently never will. After five years of my mother being nice to him and including him in the family, calling to talk to him and not even asking for me, he still doesn't believe that she likes him. He says that he knows some people can change, but he's not sure I can change. He says he has never changed his opinion of someone so that must be why he doesn't believe people can change their opinion. Well, he sure changed his opinion of me. He used to think that the affection I showed was genuine. At some level, he must have believed I loved him. So by his own logic, if I can't change, then the affection and love that I have for him now must be genuine. But, we're never logical in matters of the heart are we.<P>How come I can be so forgiving and accepting that he can change and become a steadfast husband, but he doesn't think that I can change my communication style and learn not hurt him with disrespectful judgements. He's even admitted that he knows I don't know when I do that. He knows I never intentionally meant to hurt him. How come I believe that we can have a successful marriage and he doesn't. <P>Why am I trying so d*** hard to make this work? Does he think I like feeling this pain every day. Does he think I'm doing it for my health? I have a good job. I have a great family. I could survive on my own. Goodness knows I would never want to try another relationship. If I can't make it work with H with whom I have a lot in common, I'll never be able to make it with someone else. I don't know why he would want to be in another relationship if he can't make things work with me. Is he so naive in thinking that he would never have problems with someone else. They would just be different. So why can't he accept that I am doing this because I love him? That I want to change myself because I love him? That I am totally making the biggest fool of myself over my love for him? That I like doing things that make him happy? That I am comfortable with compromise? That I can reevaluate my feelings and examing them to find the truth? He was happy with me once whether he remembers or not. Why won't he let himself be happy with me again? Isn't that all that it is? A matter of choice? At one point, we chose to be happy with each other. Why isn't he willing to make that choice again? I don't mind changing certain aspects of myself if it would make him happy, but when does the point come where he realizes that he will have to meet me halfway. That he will have to change this belief that I can't change. That he will have to accept that I love him, that I enjoy being with him, that I do appreciate him as a person, and that I do respect him even if I don't respect some of his decisions (the A mainly).<P>Sorry to ramble on for so long. We just got back from counseling and it brought all these things to the surface. Plus I learned last night that he would still rather be with the OW and he is only staying in this marriage out of guilt. At some point, he's either going to have to stay because he wants to or he is going to have to file and leave me. Even then, I will probably still hold out hope that he will come back to me. Am I a fool in love or what?

Wow, sounds like your H is really in a fog.<P>And you've just described someone with a horrible self-esteem problem. "No one could ever possibly love someone as _____ as me! They must be faking it."<P>You have your work cut out for you, L. He is not a strong man right now. You are being forced to carry the load alone. Not fair--but that is your task. <P>No, you are not a fool in love. You are an extremely strong and loving woman. But you are going to have to continue being strong to get thru to him. Just keep doing whatever you are to keep up your strength. Thru trial and error, you'll know what makes you strong and what saps your strength. <P>Plan A is a mission. It's gonna take (ewww!) time. <P>Is your H in counseling? He really sounds like he could use it for his self-esteem. It might help make your job a little easier. <P>Good luck, L, and God Bless.<p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited July 12, 2000).]

Yep, we're both in counseling. I don't know about his self-esteem though, he doesn't seem to have a problem believing the OW loves him....

LAPEINE!!<P>It's the one's with low self esteem or starving egos (egi?) that are so damn vulnerable to A's. My H needs <B>constant</B> reassurance that he is admired, attractive, "the best", etc. OW believes this as well. It almost makes me want to let her have him!! I'm exhausted! <P>That's why I know if I ever have to Plan B, I'd have him back within a week!!

Oh, Lapeine,<BR>I am so sorry your H is being so hard...but, I agree with Leilana that he is in the fog and making you feel bad probably is his guilt speaking. Helps to justify what he has done...I bet he probably does recognize that you are changing - which may just intensify his pain right now. Go back and read some of JL's, Mike's, etc posts to me...and, if you get a chance, read the one I wrote today(the vacation one in JFO). I also highly recommend 2 books "Light His Fire" and "Men Made Easy" - have really changed my way of thinking and given me a whole new perspective about men. H finally opened up to me last night(although it took my discovery that he had contact with OW this week!!!!I knew she would rear her ugly head again...not giving up easily). He admitted how painful this has been - most painful thing he has ever gone through - more detail in my post and may shed a little light on your H's state. I am thinking of you!!<BR>Hugs and prayers!!! A

PS<BR>Made love last night - unprotected!!! I think I need my head examined; now I am scared to death!!!!!<BR>

L-<BR>How are you? - worried about you....<BR>A

Thanks, AnnC. I had a bad day on Wednesday after learning that H still preferred to be with OW. I just have to learn that I can't bring up any serious dicussions. Leave that to the counselor. I apologized and said I wanted to go back to the way things have been the past week. We're back on track now. Yesterday evening we were watching TV and cuddling. He asked me if I wanted to fool around. I tried to figure out what response to give and settled on the truth. I said yes, and well, let's just say, it was good!<P>So, I'm hanging in there. I figure two weeks without a breakdown was pretty good. I'm going for three weeks this time and when I break down I'm going to try not to let him know.<P>My coworkers think I'm doing great. They say I have the best attitude. They were real worried about me the first month. <P>Thanks for asking. I hope things are going well for you too.

Lapeine:<P>I don't know your situation very well, but if ever I heard a description of a H trying to maintain his OW fantasy it is yours.<P>He's trying so hard to believe that you can't change, but in his heart he knows you have. He's fighting with all his might to keep from admitting the change to himself.<BR>Admitting that you've changed would mean he would have to give up his rationales for still needing OW. <P>You probably can't see this because you're too close to the situation. Hang in there, you're making a dent in his armour.<P>Buffy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited July 15, 2000).]

Thank you buffy. I do wonder how many dents its going to take until he takes the armor off though. I am trying to hang in there. I even asked him if he thought he was in the fog. He said, "How would I know if I am in it?" Good point. But yes, I believe that anyone who prefers to be with someone who was manipulative enough to encourage my H to let go of all his moral principles is still in the fog. It is a hard thing to accept, but there it is nonetheless. Thanks for the encouragement.