I am not a whore! - Marriage Builders® Forums

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After reading certain posts here, I can understand the anger that the betrayed feel. I have been in a similar situation myself. However, I am also a betrayer, but I'll be damned if I will be referred to as a whore, slut or any other negative slur. I made several mistakes in my life; some more than others. I don't discount that my behavior was something less desired, but it happened for reasons that "I" felt were valid at that time. I didn't intentionally seek the relationships. I didn't wreck the marriage by myself. I worked hard at trying to save my marriage and stayed because I thought it was the right thing to do for the kids. I know now that it was not. For some folks it takes several tries before they understand and get it right. In my case, it took both my spouse and I many falls before we decided to review our errors and find solutions if we wanted to save our relationship. Relationships are a very complexed entity in which even the individuals involved have problems sometimes understanding. We do our best to make our relationships work. For some, it works great. For others, it takes years before they come to common ground that they both can accept. And still for some, it will never happen. As someone mentioned earlier about cookie cutter images. I don't think we can cookie cut relationships and bylaw the dialogue or behavior of that relationship despite what others say. Each person and their partner establish the atmosphere of their household be it by the vows that they declared or unspoken. Be it right or wrong. Each one of us at some point in time as violated our vow, the law, the code by our actions such as exceeding the speed limit, ignoring our partners on the simple things, ignoring our children, gossiping about your neighbor, betrayal and countless other items. However, that does not make us bad people. We learn, sometimes the hard way that we need to make changes, stop hurting others and ourselves and make amends. And then there are those who will never learn because they don't care to learn, issues that they cannot resolve, or feelings of remorse has never been taught to them. There are folks who will never take responsibility for their actions in any given circumstance. I cannot speak for them and I also cannot judge them either. To the betrayed: I do understand your anger as I stated earlier. I sympathize for what happened to you. My prayers and thoughts are with you if you accept. I am not asking for your forgiveness or giving you an excuse for my actions. That is between me, my spouse and my Lord. As for the OM(s), I didn't hold a gun to their heads. They are adults. They could have turned the other way, but for reasons known to them only, they didn't. But please do not refer to me (a betrayer) as a slut, whore or the like. I am a good person who made several mistakes that I can't go back and fix, but work on building a better future for my relationship. Now I will probably be raked over the coals for this post. So be it. I understood the language and dialogue as referring to all betrayers as one big negative slur and that is not necessarily true. A lot of us do have morals, remorse, struggling to understand what's going on inside and what went wrong on the outside. Don't be so quick to pass judgement. If I misinterrpreted the posts, my apologies.

Sobeit: My personal opinion is that there is no need to use negative names for either those who stray or those who do not. Both are just people in pain. There are endless subtle variations, but it is all pain.I am very sorry for your pain and hope things are going better.Hugs--Kathi

Hi Sobeit,I think I wrote something very similiar once... and yes, this caught my eye because I've been called the same.You are right about so much of what you said, but you'll have a hard time convincing someone who's never been in the betrayer's shoes. I was a betrayed-only person 14 yrs. ago, and I hated the OW(s)... and yes, I thought they were whores. Then I became an OW years later, and boy did I regret the awful things I said and did to those women!You know what you did to save your marriage, how you carried guilt and remorse, and how you wish you wouldn't have been an OW. It is between you, your H, and God. Hold your head high!!! And no, my dear and beautiful sobeit, you are not a whore.~Sheryl

Sobeit,I'm not a whore either - and neither is my H something equally derogatory for his mistakes. I find it interesting that the term is applied to (in general) women, when infidelity is an equal opportunity club - as if to suggest that women's "sins" are somehow by far the greater for straying.I'm in complete agreement that name calling, and something as hurtful as that term is almost *never* fruitful. I imagine that it comes from extreme pain, and for that I can dearly empathize.Hugs to you, and all of us experiencing pain through the mistakes that led us here.Delilah

As Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I don't think anyone can claim to be so perfect that they have never made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes.You are right, sobeit. It is between you, your H and God. I haven't read everything on the thread you are referring to but the posts I did read stated that they USED TO think of the OWs as whores, but are now seeing that they are just human. People who made mistakes. I hope people will take that more compassionate view. sobeit, you are human. You made mistakes. Haven't we all?

Okay, I feel a need to respond to this as someone who has referred to the OW in my case as a whore. Yes, it is a horrible, horrible term. And there is just not one that fits her better. That is not to say that the term fits YOU or everyone who strays from their marriage. I don't know which post you are referring to that has bothered you. I guess I should do some more reading... I personally have never meant to refer to all betraying women as whores. That would be ridiculous. I AM referring to the OW in my case as a whore. She IS a whore. I will not refer to her as someone "who is in pain" or "who has a lot of problems" although those things are undoubtedly true as well. I think to expect women who have been devastated and destroyed by infidelity to NOT view the OW in a negative light is unrealistic. I hope you do not take personally remarks made that have nothing to do with you as a person. I have a close friend who I recently found out cheated on her husband and while I do not think she used the best judgment, I have never thought of her as a whore. She isn't. The OW in my case IS. I won't pretend she's not. Everyone makes mistakes, that is true. And I surely have made my share. It probably is not mature, loving, and certainly not Christ-like for me to call her that. And I wouldn't to her face or in public. I am in a lot of pain and I am calling her that anonymously over the internet. There is a difference. I certainly would not want to hurt anyone's feelings here and would not jump to judge their actions. I don't know these situations. I DO know what was done to me and what was done to my children. So until I grow up or don't hurt sooo badly anymore, I will continue to type her in as "The Whore". Please be assured I am referring to her and only her.

Sobiet, so elequently put! And I agree with you completely. On this board, there are mainly two types of people. Betrayed and Betrayer. (Mind you there are some here who are neither...)When one speaks of the OW as being a Whore... naturally the "female" betrayers here take offense. I know I certainly do! NO ONE here has the right to assume anything about another without first knowing or learning the story behind them. NO ONE has the right to JUDGE anyone else on this forum or anywhere. I would think that you should be more worried about yourselves being judged. We're all in the same boat where being judged is concerned. And we will ALL be judged by a higher power. And in as far as I can tell, He's not posting on this board!I think it is WAY PAST TIME, to rid this board of the hurtful slurs written in some of the posts.I agree that there is much pain for the betrayed. But, if everyone works together here, there is much to be learned from both the betrayer and the betrayed. We all come here for support. Why else would we be here?[This message has been edited by Lacee (edited July 18, 2000).]

Sobeit,I will probably not score many "brownie" points for what I have to say. And I am not sure any one will even be able to understand what I am trying to say.The OW in "our" lives....I have called a whore. I still see her as a whore. She does this all the time. My ex was certainly not her first notch on the bed post and he will not be the last.As a hurt "human being", watching our children cry and hurt more than anyone whould ever know....it is easy to cast the blame on someone else.Then I read posts from Betrayers....and I feel sorry for them.....understand...everything. But these are "human beings" understanding what they did wrong....wanting to make it right.The OW in "my" life does not feel she did anything wrong. She does not feel that "our" children are suffering. She sees it as "oh well". I do not think of her as a lost soul.....someone who is confused. I see her as someone who fully knew what was going on, as my ex did also. She also had a choice. She also convinced my ex to leave his family....not necessarily for her but just because "he" was not happy.She hurt more than me.....she hurt my children, my family and countless friends.People who do this, and feel nothing is wrong with it are whores. People who do this, make a mistake, learn from that mistake are not whores....they are simply people who made a bad choice or a hurtful choice.I don't know....I have never betrayed. I have never walked in those shoes. Maybe if I did, I would think differently.I am not trying to say hurtful things....but right now, watching all the pain and confusion in my childrens lives....I do not think straight all the time. I think with my motherly heart.Nancy

sobeit -Right on! I can't tell you how many times I have tried to redeem myself to my H. His name calling was like one more slap to my already damaged pride, one more way to rub salt in the wound. He and many others act as if there is some truth to their words, reasons for their hatred of me. I long for the day I get to pick up and move far away from this place ( in 1 yr hopefully)so that we can be away from his foul mouthed opinionated friends and he can learn to treat me like I deserve to be treated - no name calling. Although he has made the same mistake, I have never resorted to calling him the usual terms women call men - dogs. It's bad enough to be in pain than to have others inflict more of it on you. That saying we had as kids somehow isn't always right - sometimes words do hurt more than sticks and stones.Vee

Hi sobeit,I did call the OW a slut, but later felt God was leading toward forgiveness and I sent her an apology for the name calling, etc. It was just wrong.It does bother me some that she refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing, but even given that, my name calling was as much a sin as her relationship with my H. (Hard as that is to accept cause I think most of us would like to categorize our indiscretions wouldn't we?)Hope you are doing OK.periwinkle

Maybe this post make you all betrayers angry and hate me but this is how I feel. Maybe nobody should be called by these terms, whore, slut, etc.. But I still feel OW in my situation is. She may be hurt right now but she didn't try to stop, she contines to see my H, and at the end she gets upset because my H tells her he still loves me. I don't feel she's trying to learn anything from her mistakes(so is my H), looks like she's waiting for my H's feelings towards me will disappear so my H will be hers. According to my H she feels bad. Bad about what? Destroying our marriage? Or making me suicidal? This A may be an addiction, but she didn't try to do the right thing at all(and this is not the first time for her either). For me she's a whore.Betrayers who come here are trying to do the right things, even if it's hard thing to do you are trying and asking for a help. I don't do name calling to you. You are trying and I can see that.Right now I'm not interested to save my marriage but still I will never wish that this relationship between my H and OW will work out.Maybe because I was never be a betrayer so I can't understand well about betrayers' minds. sorry if this post upsets you.MF

The point is this...It is a matter of common courtesy and good manners. You don't go to a gathering where there are mixed races of people and start telling racial jokes or speaking of someone you don't like using racial slurs... it isn't acceptable and it isn't right.... so why do it here?I think that common courtesy should apply here as well... and I'm pretty certain, that is what they expect on this forum anyway.Everyone knows what the betrayed thinks and feels about the OP. And we all understand WHY you would feel that way. Sadly, another definition for the word "Whore" refers to your spouse as well as the OP... verb intransitive 1 : to have unlawful sexual intercourse as or with a whoreIf you still love your spouse, perhaps you might want to think again before using the word... Just a thought...

Yes I guess my H is whore too. I've never used these terms on this board before. But at the same time I'm not against people who use them because I know they are hurt and they need to express their feelings.. sometimes they might be hurtful but at the time they need to do that. At the same time I totally understand about what you said, about the racial stuff and yes you are right, we can say the same thing here too. So I apologize, for saying ow in my situation is a whore. It was inappropriate.

Hi Sobeit,I'm sorry that you've been hurt from our posts referring to the OP in those terms. Words are very powerful and I'm sorry. They were not directed at you or any other OP on this board.They were, however, directed at my H's OW and I do want to say that in my case, when I call the OW a name, believe me she deserves it. I know all the things she has said to my H regarding her disgusting sexual antics and she deliberately used sex as a tool to manipulate him. Leaving him messages of how she's playing with herself, with very very very explicit info of what she's doing to herself and going to do or has done to him. I am not exaggerating when I tell you it made me sick to my stomache, some of the things were hard core S & M and some involving human waste. She also slept w/other men, some of them my H's friends to make my H jealous and voice paged H to tell him what she did to those other men. Okay, enough said.Then there's her verbal abuse involving me, which I have posted about again and again ... So If and when I call this OW a name, whore or slut, I feel justified in doing so. By definition she and my H have both earned the titles.I hope God won't send me to hell for feeling this way.Jo[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 18, 2000).]

My H basically referred to me as a slut on a few occasions right after he found out... it was like he had forgotten the person that I really am. I think that he still finds me much less of a good person than before. I can feel it emanating from him. On more than one occasion even NOW I get the feeling from him that he is martyring himself by staying with me. He feels like he is so much a better person than me and I have let him down. It's extremely painful. I am hoping this will fade. I am not a slut or a whore or any of the other derogatory slurs. I am a good person who made a terrible mistake and I just want to feel like the person that he used to think I was. I believe it is making me depressed.Anyway, yes, sobeit - you are correct - while I can understand the hurt of the betrayed, I feel an unfair label is being placed on those of us who truly care and are trying to repair our marriages.

Hi Sobeit,I had occasion to say on another thread that when I was scared I got agressive. I don't think I am alone in this. A lot of people here are scared and the most available target is the other person. It might not be logical, but it is a very human reaction.It is entirely possible that for many, meeting the OP, without the entanglement, there would be a degree of sympathy. Alas, there is the entanglement, it prevents us from seeing everything clearly.No you are not a whore (did you ever get paid), no you are not a slut (I assume you wash with some regularity). See I used my dictionary. Words are just that, collections of letters. Yes they reflect the opinions of the users, but think of all the positive reinforcement you have received from people here. Do all those kind thoughts directed solely to you count as nothing against those railing about unknown OPs?Oh Lord I've gotten wordy again. Short version, they aren't talking about you Sobeit.

Hi, Sobeit. I've felt the same thing you've written many times when reading on this forum, so I could have written that post you just did. I realize the pain the betrayed are going through, I know the pain well, I've been through it too. It's much easier to vent against the OP than your spouse it seems. I also realize this is a place of support, and completely understand the need to vent. This is the only place I feel a division between what I did, and what I am. You are a special person that has so much insight and much to offer. I've seen it in your posts. I know I've come here solely to obtain advice and help my marriage. There's much wisdom here, maybe we can take the good with the not so good? Just wanted to let you know I'm right there with ya, and understand exactly what you're saying.

Sobeit,You are not a whore. many people use this board to vent, to try to understand, make themselves "whole" again. They are told to vent here...use this as their safe place. That is what many did. They vented.....called the OP names, cried, laughed and offered a helping hand.If someone called you a whore in this "safe place" I am just as offended as you are. But if someone called the OP a whore...they were venting....trying to tell people their story...express their hurts, pains, and confusion.Not everyone is on their "best" behavior when they are depressed, feeling low. They do not "choose" words for someone elses benefit when they are venting.Again, I know I have never called anyone on this board a whore, but I feel bad if someone did.Nancy

Rose,No, you are not a whore. And you are not a slut.You are a person who feels remorse and pain for some mistakes that you made. You are a person who is trying to make things better for yourself. You are a person who shares kind words with anyone else here in pain. You are a beautiful person.Pain makes people lash out and vent. I read posts by betrayed and betrayer here and feel the pain on both sides. Not every betrayer can be considered a whore or any other nasty word. Personally, I don't feel any anger when I read posts by people who stray. I don't see them as just an OP or WS. I see them as human beings.Many hugs to you, Mitzi [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Here's the thing, as I see it... if this is a place to vent, a safe place, and what we say is taken as just words we use when we are hurt, then let's turn it around and see something:The betrayed spouse of my ex-OM patheticly tried to save her marriage.One sentence. I didn't use cuss words, nor was I talking about any betrayed spouse here. You tell me, does this upset you, as a betrayed spouse? It does me! I have been betrayed by my stbx several times. This sentence implies that betrayed spouses are pathetic. This implies that *I* was pathetic for wanting to save my marriage.See what I mean? Words carry weight, and they can sting - in fact, they can destroy.

I am sorry that the betrayers who participate on this forum feel offended and hurt by the words of those of us who have had our lives torn apart BY OTHER PEOPLE. I am fully able and willing and HAVE taken the responsibility for my part in the problems in my marriage.HOWEVER - there are sluts and whores in the world who go after the husbands of women like many of us here. Some of them simply enjoy the idea that they can take someone away from someone else. I do not generally use words like that, but I refuse to start speaking softly and kindly about a woman who, if she hadn't been stopped by someone, would gladly have physically assaulted me. I refuse to feel sympathy toward a woman who has written the kinds of things that this creature has written to me (do a search in the read-only forum on my username). I refuse to forgive someone who TO THIS VERY DAY feels the need to talk about me to other people as if I was some kind of pathetic mental case. The slug is a cruel and selfish b*itch, and I will defend my words because they are FACTS.As for how I defend my attitude toward my husband: I made a vow to love, honor and cherish him for better or worse. I made no such vow to the slug.I do understand that betrayers feel pain. And when your spouses are cruel to you or leave you because of it, even though you are willing to work hard to make it up to them, I feel sympathy for you. But, I cannot feel that same sympathy for people like the slug - and I don't intend to try. She is despicable and I despise her.If this is offensive to betrayers, I'm afraid I can't sympathise.------------------ terri I can see clearly now, the rain is gone ...

New begining... nice try but pathetic just does not have the emotional impact that the word whore does. Plus I will admit to feeling pathetic alot of the time.I think what we are trying to say though is that we do not lump together all who have affairs. We can tell the difference between those who made a mistake, are confused, have some mixed feeling about it and those like Terri and Resiliants OW who have done it multiple times, do it gleefully, and harass the wife. I do not think my H OW is a whore. But I would say some I have heard of here are. I cant recall anyone who has posted that I would consider one. We are all here for the same basic purpose, to heal from this. Lora

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You don't go to a gathering where there are mixed races of people and start telling racial jokes or speaking of someone you don't like using racial slurs... it isn't acceptable and it isn't right.... so why do it here?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Big difference here, people don't choose their race, they are born a certain race, people choose to have affairs, so to me, there is a huge difference. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Sadly, another definition for the word "Whore" refers to your spouse as well as the OP... verb intransitive 1 : to have unlawful sexual intercourse as or with a whore<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, if the OP is going to be continued to be viewed as a whore, than the spouse should be viewed in the same light, they like the OP had free will and made a conscious, thought-out decision. If the spouse is not going to be viewed in the same light, then it seems to me that excuses are still being made for that spouse, which to me is just as much about being in a fantasy as the affair was. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My H basically referred to me as a slut on a few occasions right after he found out...it was like he had forgotten the person that I really am.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I did the same thing as your husband, and it was because if you take the literal definition of the word, as hurtful as it may seem that I'm being right now, the word fits. After the initial shock and pain subsided a bit, I knew that calling my wife these names was not helping at all, so I stopped calling her sluts and whores. I told her that I "hoped" that she was still the "good person" that I married, and that I didn't view her as a slut or a whore, but her behavior was definitely sluttish and whorish. This may or may not be acceptable to some of the people here on this site, but I did "try" seperate the person from the behavior. As far as your husband "forgetting" the person that you really are, was it your husband that forgot, or was it you? It was your behavior that caused him to look at you differently, he didn't just wake up one morning and start calling his wife a slut. I know how your husband feels, when you initially find something like this out, it's not that we have forgotten who you really are, we no longer know who you really are, the person that we thought you were, wouldn't have done the something like this. It takes years to build up trust, and only one second to destroy it. You, like my wife, have left us "wondering" if this is the "real" you or was this just a "blip" on the screen, and it's up to you and her to "prove" to us over time that you are who you say you are. [This message has been edited by F A (edited July 19, 2000).]

OH MY!....My H's OW is a beautiful, loving, caring individual that simply made a "wrong turn". I wish her peace and happiness....WITH ALL MY HEART.Some inspiration for us all:If we practice an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless. ~GandhiTo forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was YOU. ~unknownI will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him. ~Booker T. WashingtonPeace to us all, ~Marie

At MB, at THIS gathering, we all knew there were betrayed and betrayers when we got here. We are both here for help... both here to share our experiences... both here trying to work on our marriages... both here are hurting... If we were all together in a room, actually looking into each others eyes, would it be just as easy for you to call the OP a Whore? FA, very true we do not choose our race. But that wasn't the point now was it? The point was manners and courtsey. Here at MB, we should all be treated with respect for what we are here trying to accomplish. Without prejudice or discrimination or being made feel uncomfortable. We are all here looking for help in doing the right thing... Marie, beautiful inspiration! You are a very unique woman..

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If we were all together in a room, actually looking into each others eyes, would it be just as easy for you to call the OP a Whore?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It would be very, very easy to call the OM a whore, if he happened to be in the room with the rest of us, it would also be very, very easy for me to kick his A#$ as well, unlike the people on this site who are here seeking help, my W's OM could care less, during my conversation with him shortly after discovery, he called my W "an opportunity that presented itself", and a "whore", so it would be no problem for me at all. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>FA, very true we do not choose our race. But that wasn't the point now was it? The point was manners and courtsey.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree that everyone here should be treated with respect and courtesy. I am assuming that everyone here is here because they are trying to make things better, make things right. The example that you used just made me raise my eyebrows because it seemed like you took something that we have no choice over(race) and compared it to something that we do have control over(fidelity), and to me there is a huge difference. I am not trying to offend anyone or disrespect anyone, but I haven't seen any posts where a betrayer was called a whore or a slut. I admit that I haven't read every posts on every thread, but could it possibly be that some people are being a little over sensitive? If I call my W's OM a low life, snake in the grass, Son Of A BI#%$, that doesn't mean that I am talking about anyone on this board, there may have been something that this person did specifically outside of the affair that causes him to be called that. I would only say that if you are here and you are trying to make amends I wouldn't consider you to be a whore or a slut, but those who have done this kind of damage and feel nothing about it, I can only say if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck.......then it's a duck.

Marie,Your post is incredibly touching. With those quotes, you've exactly hit upon what doesn't feel right (to me) about downgrading *anyone* (at least openly) to whore, slut, or dog status - "two wrongs won't make a right".Yet, I can understand some of what terri mentions. Think about it, do we feel the same for cold-blooded killers, murderers, and rapists among us? - their actions have made them cold and calculating, with no value for the sacred in human life. I can certainly understand where betrayers, (including me!) might be thought of in a harshly negative fashion for what looks like, at least, a blatant disregard for the sacred in marriage. However, there is also the matter of the not so blatant disregard in terms of marriage, and the two sides to every coin, and I guess that's what makes hearing terms like "whore" and "slut" so shocking. In the future, I will not personalize, and try better, to understand where the individual writer is coming from in using such terms. This thread has helped me to see that a bit more - so thanks again. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Delilah

(I also posted this in "definition of whore" topic below)I don't like labels. I'm also a stickler about semantics. When I refer to my H's OW, I simply refer to her as an adultress, because that is the most semantically appropriate label I can think of without name calling or flowering her up with romantic names like "mistress" or "lover" or, even worse, ambiguous descriptors like "my h's friend" (sorry ... I don't sleep with my "friends!). I also tend to refer to my H as an adulterer. To me, these words are laden with meaning, as per my beliefs that cheating is morally wrong, and yet it's not casting someone down in an entirely negative light. I think that my H's adultress (OW) was actually pretty nice to him, and in any other circumstances, I think that we could have been friends. Mutual friends who describe her say that she was like a lesser version of myself, but I think they only think this because she was the adultress in the situation, and that prevented them from viewing her in an entirely positive light. If she hadn't been an adultress, maybe we would on an equal level. But simply the fact that she did what she did made her and him, in our mutual friends' eyes and in my own eyes, people who weren't really morally astute at the time the EMR was going on.This is my feeling on the subject: you only wear the label as long as you're committing the crime, IMHO. Once I know for a fact that my H has severed contact, he will no longer be an adulterer, and she will no longer be an adultress.belld

I had to hope in on this post. I have been trying to get into full recovery with my wife who has been having an EA/PA with OM who lives across the street for almost two years. I have Plan Aed my butt off over this time and am about ready to go to Plan B. Though many times I have felt like calling her the above mentioned names. I have never been able to utter those words, which to me have such a negative associated with them.To Sobeit and the others who have betrayed and post here. I have a tremendous amount of respect for you in your efforts to repair your marriage and find out what went wrong (on both sides). It is not easy to relive something that went so wrong in your life and to have people take shots at you. I have found your side(s) of the story very helpful as I try to figure this whole mess out. So please find comfort that you are helping people like myself get through a period that is very dark and am learning a great deal from your side of the story. I would give anything for my wife to come to this site to really understand how much hope there can be. I am sure it is very painful for you to relive some of the hurt that has happened on both sides.With all that said, I would like to try and provide you with a point of view that may or may not make sense. In general we are living in a socitey in which many people refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. Or if they do they one someone to forgive them right away or blame others. I am not saying this has happened in Sobeit's case or some of the others. But again in general we hear people that have committed crimes blame it on their upbringing and someone that maybe had beat them. How many times do we hear I shot up the school because I watched something on TV or heard someone say something that pissed me off. That caused my reaction and I can not be held responsible. I was listening to an interview of a jury member that was dealing with a white coller crime in my hometown. He said that he found the convicted person very sorry for his actions and asked the court to find him not gulity. He was a family man and by all accounts a very good person expect for this major mistake. The jury member agreed that he was a good family man and by all accounts seemed like a good person.But his comment is what stuck me. He said that though this man was a well respected businessman, he clearly knew what he was doing was wrong at the time he did it. His excuses for his actions were not valid for what happened. He convicted him and because of this mistake he is now in jail. Point being he clearly knew what was right and wrong here. He took the chance of not being caught and he is now paying for it.Sobeit and other betrayers, everyday I have to look at myself in the mirror and know that I did play a part of getting my marriage to where it is today. I did many things wrong and now I have to pay for it with this affair. But as my wife and I have discussed there where many other options then the path she took. I am sure I would have woke up (as she says) if she had told me she was falling in love with someone else. I am more then willing to accept my part of the failure of our marriage. But I can't accept that her actions where caused by me when there where many other less destructive options. I also can't forgive everything right away and sweep 2 years of pain under the rug. I want to understand what happen so it never happens again.We are all here because we are hurting and want someone to understand our point of view. I assume we all want to become better people and learn from our mistakes on both sides. I don't know if this makes any sense. I just hope we can all take away something from both sides and pass on what we have learned to others as we go through our journey in life. Sobeit and other betrayers, please don't take this the wrong way. We are all responsible for our actions and often times the pain on the betrayed side is so great that it overtakes the pain you are going through. Zip

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lacee: If we were all together in a room, actually looking into each others eyes, would it be just as easy for you to call the OP a Whore? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Unfortunetly "YES" Lacee, it would be easy for me to call this woman a whore or slut to her face. I feel bad about it but I do feel this way for now.I would never go out of my way to do it or initiate any contact with her, BUT if she contacted me face to face, YES, I would call her what she is.I've never professed to be Mother Teresa, or a Saint by any means, I am so dang human, more human right now than probably I have ever been, it's raw emotion and what she has done and is doing isn't right. My prayers are for me to someday somehow find forgiveness in my heart for her, but right now it's not there and I am still trying to survive under her unsolicited threats, abuse and mistreatment.So again "YES", I would tell her what I feel she is.Jo

Ok, time for my 2 cents worth. I personally will call the OW in my H's life the "skanky ho" for the rest of my natural life and I don't feel an ounce of remorse or shame for it. And I will NEVER apologize to her either. However, I have never called you one and I have never lumped all OW's into the "ho" category...only my own personal OW has the distinction of "skanky ho". Sorry if you don't like it...oh well. She is inhuman to me. She thinks the "love" she and my H have is perfect and beautiful (her words) despite the fact that his stbx-wife tried to commit suicide (me) and his children are having problems. She thinks of no one but herself. You however, obviously have a conscience. I just wanted to clear up that when I say "skanky ho" is it specifically addressed to the OW named Julie D. AKA "pretty ann" AKA "blue eyes" AKA "Julie Ann" AKA "skanky ho" (the last one's mine [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

. )------------------ Blessed be. **************** KeridwenKeridwen_7@yahoo.com

Keridwen,I can understand where you are coming from. I would be able to forgive the OW in my H's life if she showed an ounce of remorse, or if she took her share of responsibility in acknowledging that getting involved with a married man was just plain WRONG. If she apologized to me for her share of the pain. You know, I have never been tempted by a married man, and I never will. I cannot ever see a circumstance where I would have sex with someone else's spouse. No matter how bad their marriage was (or rather, proported to be), no matter if the couple were separated, no matter WHAT, I would walk away. It plagues me that the OW in this case still has the BALLS to want to be my H's "friend." She seems nice enough, but at times, I want to ask her, "Were you raised by wolves? Have you no concept of what is permissible in a marriage, between two people? Do you *know* the deep, deep pain, anger, resentment, and grief that this has caused me? Do you understand that I was almost suicidal because you were f*cking my H? Why are you asking me to make such a big sacrifice, for your own personal gain?" Of course, I know why. Because she still wants to [censored] my husband. It's as plain as the day is long.I want to ask her these things. I wish that she knew what it was like, for one fraction of a second, to feel the way I did for those six months while she and my H were living together. I wish I cared how she felt, but I simply do not. She knew what she was getting into. She has NO RIGHT to ask for my husband's friendship, and NO RIGHT to ask my blessing on this unholy alliance. It drove a stake right through the heart of our marriage. And yet she wants to be a continual reminder of what I consider to be the darkest period of my life.What a ---- Wait. Stop. Breathe. Okay.What a really immoral way to conduct one's life.belld

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by belldandy: What a really immoral way to conduct one's life.belld<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Amen Belldandy! Amen Amen Amen! Thank-you ... Jo[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 19, 2000).]

Dear friends: I want to thank everyone who responded. As I said in my earlier post, I do understand the anger that the betrayed feel. I also understand where the anger from each is geared toward and not to me or others on this board personally. As I also mentioned earlier that there are those who do not take responsibility for their actions. I don't know the reasonings for their actions. Reasons could range from personal gain, a challenge, savior mentality( I am saving this MW or MM from his evil spouse) or they might not feel that they are doing anything wrong. In my job I deal with these type of folks often and it is difficult to get them to realize that their behavior is unacceptable or to accept responsibility. The brain is complexed. I am not making excuses for your thorns in disguise, but maybe providing some insight to their behavior. Especially those that I have heard seem to enjoy making your life miserable. NO, it still does not make it right and there may be more to the story than the examples I have given. I will not argue with you over that. However, you might want to think who's important here. I have heard a few mention suicide. Is the OP worth it? Are you letting the OP get to you and your children? When it was me on your side, I used my anger to rebuild myself. It took me awhile and I will admit that I am still working on me, but I looked at my children(because they are my life) and decided they are my focus. I will not let them go down with the ship. So, I took measures to get them involved with outside activities, took them on day trips, listen to their opinions, had picnics in our backyard, ate lunch with them at school, took them out to eat when we had extra cash, went to free concerts anything to keep their minds focused on the positive. They knew what was going on with their father and I, but they also knew that I wasn't going to let that get in my way to better us. My children, up to this day, when they see my spouse's former female friend, they will either glare at her or block the aisle that forces her to go the other way. I have seen her do an about face when she sees us. My kids never heard a bad word about my spouse despite the troubles we were going through, but they knew. In regards to myself, I continued with college, exercised(part of my OCD), read alot and just enjoyed the time I had with my children. When my kids started leaving, it became increasingly difficult for me so off I went to the other side. I learned my lessons the hard way. I am still trying to deal with the empty nest syndrome. I have one more left and I am scared. I am so sorry for being long-winded, but I hope I gave you some ideas on how to put yourself and your children first since you can't control the situation between OP and your spouse. I know that there will be decisions that you will have to make, steps you will have to take to better your relationships or end them and my prayers will be with you. Everyone hold your heads high and think positive thoughts. We will get through this.