OK...I'm usually upbeat here, I can put the bright spin on almost anything in life. I honestly live my life this way...but not tonight.<P>I'm in full recovery. I thought my H had never been happier in our marriage.<BR>No card. No flower. Not even a scibbled message on a flippin' post it note.<P>An ambiguous promise of dinner..sometime. Then how about a pizza and a video after his nap?..haven't seen him since. He does have a sleep disorder.<P>I am treasuring my handmade cards from my three girls. I made them cards with corney individualized poems. We had fun.<P>My oldest 14, kept asking her dad where was Mom's card and gift...she actually thought he was just holding off some grand surprise. I finally asked her to not embarass her dad...although he didn't appear to be embarassed.<P>I couldn't find just the right card at the store, so I handmade his card, too. My message:<P>You know I dislike when anyone uses "always" or "never"....well today I will make an exception. I will ALWAYS love you and I will NEVER take our life, our love or our marriage for granted.<P>OK...one part of me is giving me a talking to, telling me this is a commerical holiday, and these tokens mean nothing. To a clueless guy, this is not a report card on his feelings. I am telling myself not to misinterpret this event. Look on the bright side, last year when he was still in phone contact with OW, he gave me two whole roses, a Walmart candle AND a card ..he must have a lot LESS to feel guilty about this Valentine's Day. I should be happy that he does take our marriage for granted again. After all, that shows how comfortable he feels.<P>The other half of me wonders what a loser wife I must be, not to recieve a card or a gift. Before the affair, I just shrugged it off as H being clueless...now it seems like a slap in the face.<P>I guess I'm throwing a pity party for myself. If anyone wants to join in...welcome!<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I think that the more "comfortable" a spouse becomes with the marriage, the more likely they may be to forget the little things, like valentines cards and stuff. My h bought me gifts galore during the time he said his involvement with another happened. <P>So getting nothing may not be so bad, maybe only to us. They are just "comfortable" and not putting out the effort.

Big sigh......yes, Conner, you are right.<P>But it still sucks...there, I said it.

I rarely get cards, and almost never get gifts, so I've pretty much come to expect that from my H. Although he did get a Valentine's card for me this year, he did manage to have quite a few beers before coming home tonight. I loved the card he got, it was very touching. Brought tears to my eyes when I read it. <P>In the last month we've had our anniversary (no card, no gift, no dinner except what I cooked for him), my birthday (inappropriate card - I was grateful though it's the thought that counts right, no gift, etc.), now V-day. He can well afford to buy gifts, he just doesn't do it. Never has, and probably never will. Christmas, Mother's Day, Easter, you name the holiday, he always forgets them (or just says he did) or just plain doesn't acknowledge them at all. Over the years I guess the one that hurt the most was last year's Mother's Day. He did nothing, except yell at me, saying what a b**** I am, how he couldn't stand me, etc. (this was during his affair), but was able to spend $5,000 the day before on a 4-wheeler for my son. I was brokenhearted. It still hurts. There have been many, many Christmases when we've gotten up to open gifts, and my husband has given me (or the kids) nothing. One year recently the only one who did give me a Christmas gift was my lovely, wonderful daughter. She tries so hard to make up for all the times my H does nothing for me. I've always tried to hard to pick out gifts for him and his family that are meaningful. I just don't understand the lack of compassion.

I agree, FHL, sucks it does.<P>Our H's love us, but they are cavemen from Mars. That's the problem.<P>*tossing around confetti*

This is the first year EVER not to get anything from my W for Valentines Day. I know it was intentional because my W doesn't forget ANYTHING! I'm one of those "caveman from Mars" who has been guilty of "postponing" a card & gift or two. Now that I'm on the receiving end of this rude behavior I see how much it hurts. I've seen a lot of things from my W's perspective lately. I feel so bad for having neglected her feelings these many years. I hope I get the opportunity to make it up to her. I hope your H's get a clue and learn from there mistakes. I am certainly trying to. Hope it makes you feel better that there is at least one caveman out there who is trying to stand erect

OK, this is what happened to me on V-Day... My h actually left me and moved in with the ow. Man, talk about devastation! He had been living with his brother in another state. But, last night, he packed up everything he could that he had there and left. When his brother asked him where he was going he said he didn't know. Well, that was last night and he never showed up here. So, I know where he is. The idea behind him living with his brother was to get him away from the ow. He was supposed to go to his first counseling session on Wednesday and he couldn't face it. So, he ran. He knew he didn't want to come to me because I would make him face his problems. He knows if he goes to the ow, she won't make him deal with any of his problems. So, I am the bad guy. Oh well. I am completely heartbroken. I guess you could definitely say this was my all-time worse V-Day. Thanks honey! I love you too!<P>~Woozy

My H is another who isn't big on gift giving and then he gets frustrated when I get him gifts. I told him I get him gifts because I love him and it makes me feel good to get him things. So this year I got nothing material. But he was home and that was the best gift ever.<P>------------------<BR>Jaded Heart<BR>____________<P> <A HREF="http://journeys.webprovider.com" TARGET=_blank>http://reflect.to/journeys</A> <P> <P>

My Valentines Day started off wonderfully, but quickly turned to disaster. <P>I phoned my wife at work when I got home from work, and for the first time in about 8 months, she told me she loved me without me saying it first. I really thought that she was turning a corner, but I was not prepared for the corner she turned.<P>As it turns out, the gift I gave her (One of those heart shaped candy boxes, with all the candy removed and filled with small Yankee candles - this because she loves candles and told me not to get her any candy this year as it makes her sick) reminded her of the OM because he used to get them for her.<P>From the point of our gift exchange on through the evening, she got more and more depressed. I asked her what was wrong and she told me how the candles reminded her of the OM. I thanked her for being open and honest with me and told her how sorry I was for her pain.<P>She told me that she did not believe that I was sorry for her pain and that she thought that I was happy for it. After a lengthy discussion where she just got more mad and my explanations of not wanting her to hurt fell on deaf ears, I went to bed.<P>This morning, she told me that she did not want any displays of affection between us to be seen by anyone (This includes showing off our gifts from each other, and open displays of affection - hugging, kissing, etc.)<P>She then wrote me a letter asking me if I was just pretending to love her and stated that she did not want to be cared for by anyone anymore. She then stated at the end of the letter that maybe if we started acting as if each other were special to each other, something might happen.<P>I KNOW that she is confused and in MAJOR withdrawal, but do not really know what to do. She asked me specifically not to give her a book to read (Any of the Harley stuff that I own), so I really don't know how to even broach the subject of emotional needs with her. I just keep on showing her that I love her and guessing what her needs are. <P>I sincerely hope that someone out there had a GREAT Valentines Day.

Oh, I had a perfectly fine Valentine's weekend -- until Sunday night.<P>H took me to dinner Saturday, then we watched SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE. This after he went supposedly to work and then reset the mileage counter on the car, but that's another story.<P>Sunday, peach roses were delivered and I got him a watch, the concert tix I'd wanted to get him being prohibitively expensive.<P>Then Sunday night, we were watching THE SIMPSONS, in which Maude Flanders died, and I said, "I'd miss you if you weren't here." His reply: "Yeah, I'd miss me too if I wasn't here."<P>Argh.<P>No success story yet for me, I'm afraid.

Dazed and Confused,<P>I am sorry about your V-Day fiasco! Your husband's comment about missing himself if he weren't here... That sounds just like something my husband would say right now. He has been so heartless with me. As you see by my above post, he left me anyway on V-Day. So, that pretty much tears it right there. I feel sick to my stomach!<P>Sorry that you have to go through this!<P>~Woozy

FHL, Remember my INFP friend? His girlfriend left him a few weeks ago. She kept telling him that she had certain emotional needs, but he just wouldn't move outside of his circle to meet her emotional needs. So, after she left, he got this video tape from some kind of self help relationship place.<P>It was on emotional needs. No, it wasn't from MB, but it had some of the same type of concepts.<P>He came over Sunday night - and my husband, I and the INFP friend got into this long conversation about emotional needs. My husband took notes. ha ha (hen I look back it looks so funny.....sorry)<P>anyhow.... Mr. clueless was listening. So, he finally understood that I had an emotional need of affection. I explained that affection doesn't always mean a hug, it can mean an email. It can mean a card. It can mean a call in the middle of the day for no reason.<P>So, my husband decided to buy me flowers for valentines day. I was so surprised. <P>This is the second time he has ever bought me flowers. He never thinks of holidays. I am used to not expecting anything for any holiday. I am talking my birthday, Christmas, etc. <P>On Christmas Eve this year, we stopped at Wal-mart to exchange something. It was 1/2 hour before the store was going to close. After we got back in the car, ready to leave, I said to him, "Did you get me anything for Christmas?" (geez.... what an idiot.) "No, I don't know what to get."<P>"Well, I want you to go back in the store and get me something. I want something that says you find me physically desirable and sexy, I want something romantic, I want to know that you care about me by what you buy me." Mr. Clueless walked right back in the store and came right back out in about 10 minutes. I had to TELL him to do this, because he just didn't get it.<P>He was very proud of what he bought me, and I made sure that I made him feel wonderful for making me happy with his gifts. I guess I am thinking of this as "Mr. Clueless in Training"......<P>I remember when my kids were at home, that I would take them to the store and they would have money, maybe $20 each. And I would sit out in the car while they did their shopping for Christmas. I gave them a list of who to shop for. I wanted them to learn that every year you make a plan to try and remember your loved ones. Now they are big and gone, and both my sons and my daughter are very good about finding a way to remember their spouse.<P>FHL, you've got to train your husband. If you wait for him to get it without any help, he's never going to get it.<P>Maybe you can tell him that on this coming Saturday night, that you and him are going to celebrate Valentines Day. And tell him that he has a limit of a certain dollar amount that he should spend for a gift. If he doesn't get it then, then he has a cyber fryin' pan coming his way.<P>TNT

I think the spouse's comfort level might have quite a bit to do with it. Last year, I did get roses, but we fought all V-Day.<P>This year, well, now you know Guard, and we just started "no contact"...a dozen red gilt-tipped roses, a delicate heart necklace with crushed diamonds, chocolate truffles, 3 hours at a day spa for a facial, massage, manicure. It was sooo sweet. And he bought both daughters a red rose with a Valentine Teddy bear. Where has this guy been? <P>Just in case you think I didn't do anything...I got him (big ST. Louis Rams fan) a Kurt Warner NFL MVP numbered placque & a superbowl champs cap. The male version of a dozen roses and chocolate.

My Vday consisted of posting messages and getting no replies, my H instant messaging me which went ok, he asked about family and said happy valentines day.<P>He called later to talk to the kids and accidentally said i love you on the voice mail and once to me on the phone. He then said he didn't mean it. THanks . He clarified, he meant it but didn't mean to say it. OK even better. <P>This morning he asked why I sounded down and how come I had a rough night. <P>I guess I should be glad that he notices I am still human and in pain. I guess it could have been worse. I did send him an ecard that hasn't been read still. Oh well. I guess we are all miserable over VDAY.

The Good News: H got me a card , a nice hydrangia plant and took me out to dinner. The card said how glad he was to have found me and how wonderful I was. Maybe it was the only card left in the store? I als think he did not go see OW when I was at work.<P> The bad news: When I came home from work he didn't acknowlege me until I walked over to him. He fell asleep watching TV minutes later and I had to wake him to take me to dinner. When we got into bed I tried to cuddle and he gave me the usual cold shoulder and I said I love you and got no response.<P>Do actions speak louder than cards? I am dieing for a little affection here. I am getting so tired, I think he is backing off of his relationship, but I don't see him turning to me.

I got to say that while I was blubbering here at the computer last night, my H wandered down the hall and asked what was wrong.<P>He didn't say much, but that he was sorry and held me for a long time.<P>He said he didn't get candy because I don't eat it. True enough. He thought about flowers, but didn't stop. He did think about taking me to dinner sometime. He really meant to get up, order my favorite pizza and watch a video...but he got up from his nap at 2AM. In other words he had OK intentions, but acted on nothing and didn't go the extra inch, much less the extra mile.<P>No ill intent, just clueless insensitivity. I'm not angry, but I just feel drained....and puffy. Sometimes I feel if I lower my expectations any more, I'll have to dig a trench for them.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I hear ya, sistah. I truly do. I hate Valentine's Day. It brings out the worst in people.<P>Let's abolish all holidays. Anyone else vote Yea? Let's just have days off work with no expectations.

FHL,<BR>My trench is big enough for a swimming pool - hey, maybe some good could come out of this whole "lowering expectations" after all.<P>Some guys just don't get it. Without any LB-ing and the like, I explained that V-day, like ALL OTHER DAYS, I feel good when someone treats me with respect. On the gift issue, this means giving thoughtful little "somethings" that are for ME - and ME only. I have also explained that for the "us" stuff, I would like to discuss (read POJA) so that neither of us is disappointed or resentful for decisions made. <P>What did I get for V-day? Hockey tickets and a promise to go out after to the sports bar. .......HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - just last week when we were talking about EN's and the like, I expressed that I would like to meet his desire to take in some games together - FOR HIM and that while I am not a huge fan, it would be for the purpose of meeting one of his EN's in the recreational companion end. Key on this is HIS emotional need. <P>Ugggggggggggh. Would have rather received nothing but a rented movie and micro popcorn with room service than something that makes me feel not only like he just doesn't "get it" but that he chooses to get it as long as it benefits him and him alone.<P>Anyone interested in seeing the Senators play the Rangers on Saturday the 26th? I just might know where you could get some tickets really cheap <P>Cheers,<BR>Lisa

Hi, all,<P>...Gee, some sad stories here about V-Day. FHL, I sure hate to see you so bummed-out & "deflated" (despite being *puffy*! Been puffy myself a few times!). I did have to chuckle about you digging a trench tho... you have a clever way with words even in puffy-mode. <P>Anyway, all - here's fervent wishes that your guys recover their senses and get a clue or two - and that future V-Days (Christmases, b'days etc) are far, far better. You all deserve the very best. Hang in there, & remember it's not about any deficiencies in *you* - it's about deficiencies in *them* (& now, I'm gonna get crackin' on training my 2 boys how not to be clueless turds! )

OK...all those in favor of abolishing V-day (at least making it illegal for H & W's to celebrate)...raise your hand....or use your smilies legend and pop your eyes <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

No, no, no popping eyes. To abolish holidays means to admit defeat. None of us are here because we admit to being so discouraged we will get rid of all that makes us feel this way (if that were the case, many of us would just show our spouses the door).<P>We need to look at how we can overcome the defeat that these holidays bring us.<P>Sounds great.......wish I could take my own advice..........any suggestions? <P>In the mean time, I guess I'll change my mind and give you my popping eyes. <P> <P>Lisa<P>

Suse,<P>Yes, how do we raise our boys to not be like their fathers? That was just the thing I was wondering. I have two wonderful boys also. In away, I think they will be better off not having their dad around them. But, how do I prevent them from making the same mistakes their father did? I am determined to love them as good as I can on my own! I think I am already doing a better job with the exception of homework, without their dad around. Things are much less stressful. I have to look at the good side of things. I am tired of looking at the bad stuff. But, it is always there in my head! I can't escape it right now! The boys and I are going to counseling tomorrow. Hopefully, they will have some good advice for us!<P>~Woozy

FHL,<P>From one trench digger to another, I have to remind you of something you said to me once. Your woth does not come from any one person but from God. You are NOT a loser.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

I got my first card in 19 months from my wife. But, it still seemed so empty. She's in withdrawal and it's much tougher than I ever thought. There's nothing like having your bride pine away for another man on Valentine's Day. It's such an ego booster.<P>I did the day up for her as I have always done. I fed the kids early so that we could have a special dinner together at home. I made her all of her favorites. I had everything ready for her when she was supposed to get home. <P>She came home 1.5 hours late from work. She said "what's the special occassion?". I said "It's Valentine's Day." She just said "Oh". That was the high point of the evening. <P>Toss me in to the pity party. I can sulk with the best of you.<P>SHA

I don't get it.<P>My ex always acussed me (after discovery) of not being romantic enough, and sometimes I would not get her a card for her birthday, but that was because I got her a gift.<P>I had to agree that I was insensitive.<P>But after reading these posts I am not so sure. Unbelievable. Even those who are working on recovery still get nothing?<P>I paid attention yesterday as I walked around the office. Not one women in my office (at leat 50 women) got flowers sent to them.<P>I always sent something, or diner , or a present.<P>Maybe I am not so bad after all.

OK...seriously...<P>More than AW...before the affair, I really didn't mind not getting cards and gifts. I knew it was just him. When he had the affair, I have to say part of me was surprised he could participate in a a relationship. He must have shown some kind of charm or romance. (Although he did tell me on one of their dates he ended up playing chess all evening and she was mad he didn't pay any attention to her...who would have seen that coming ?)<P>Now that I can't take the marriage for granted and I know it can be vunerable...and that he must have an ounce of charm in him somewhere...his lack of sensitivity hurts more. Now somehow I know that is not rational...and I am dealing with the same person, but expecting different results. Isn't that the sign of insanity? Mine that is? <P>Oh...my girls shower me with lots of love and affection...as I try to do special little things for them, too.<P><BR>Conner...you are right. H likes comfortable. But I thought he liked comfortable before the affair...then he betrayed me. Now comfortable just fries my brain. Is comfortable, comfortable? Or is comfortable a danger zone? See?<BR> <P>hopeful 1...thank goodness...one man at a time!<P><BR>woozy...OK...I look really whiney compared to what you are going through. My heart goes out to you. But if the last weeks have proven anything with your H...it is not over. He is big time confused.<P><BR>jadedheart...I really wish I could go back to your attitude. I used to have it...maybe it's under this stack of papers...I'll go looking for it.<P><BR>Dazed...hey if we are both down...this could be a long week. Are our H's competing for a clueless contest we don't know they entered?<P><BR>scanman...strap yourself in...you are on the ride of your life. You have the tools you need for the journey...so at this point...just try to hang on.<P>TNT...I'll think about that training. I do try to train him to communicate...even when I have to basically hold up both ends of a conversation. But gift giving? I can not imagine sending my H back into Walmart with that message...and who knows what whako thing he would return with LOL. I'm so glad you got those flowers. That's great!<P><BR>Lor...don't take this wrong...I LOVE that you got those gifts...but in my mood today...I'm tempted to say...even that guy, the poster H for bad behavior...did better than my H. OK...I'm REALLY not myself today.<P><BR>lonelymom...what can I say...again compared to what you are enduring, I am whining like a baby. My heart goes out to you.<P><BR>Lora...well there were some bright spots there. Still a lot of room for improvement, huh? Sounds like part of it may have been H's fatigue...which is a huge factor in my marriage...and something really easy to misinterpret as a cold shoulder. And how do you clarify it..."Honey, are you giving me the cold shoulder because you are emotionally detatched, plain old tired...or are you simply a clueless emotionally stunted insensitive clod?" Somehow I think we need to work on the wording <P><BR>LisaM...I could go on and on about the gifts I actually HAVE gotten over the years...which are given with much the same mindset as the gift you got. BUT don't come down too hard on him...he thinks he's done good. Kinda like the confusion a cat must feel when they arrive at the door with a prize bird or mouse for their owner. I'd just go and have fun...and maybe hint a little more next gift giving time.<P><BR>suse, thanks for the pep talk...and your efforts to raise two future clued men. I know it is him, not me...but doesn't all this emotional need teaching challenge us to look within ourselves for what needs we are not addressing that manifest themselves as negative behavior in our spouse? If I just shrug it off, am I ignoring a chance to meet needs? It is all so confusing some days.<P><BR>SHA...welcome to the pity party...here I'll move over and you can take the seat at the head of the table.<P><BR>Jersey Joe...I think you sound OK!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13<p>[This message has been edited by Faith Hope Love (edited February 15, 2000).]

FHL - I meant to reply earlier, but had to run. As you said he is clueless. And it's not the action, it's our interpretation - that he doesn't care, etc. You know that's not the case.<P>So, set him up so he can't fail. It's not romantic, but we have to teach the dummies. I told him tomorrow is Valentines, I would like "something". He still might not, but at least I spelled it out for him.

Patient Love....Thank You!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL:<P>Yeah. comfortable. Why is that such a loaded word? For years I thought comfortable was a good thing. Now I feel like every minute has to be an exciting one...and that I have to do the work to make it so.<P>Oh, I'm willing to accept that I have to do all the work in this relationship. I just wish I didn't have to fear that if I slip, he'll seek his excitement elsewhere.

FHL,<P>I'm busting up this pity party. Let me tell you about my Valentine's Day.<P>No card, no e-mail, no call, no dinner, no H even in the state! I'm sure he was in FL sharing the day and night with his lover.<P>Yet, I had a wonderful and happy Valentine's Day. I got what I expected from my H - NOTHING. Yet, from others who love me...I got PLENTY! I got a few cards, a few e-mails and e-cards, a rose at work from a friend, a box of valentine chocolates mailed from my MIL, a crystal candy dish and some potpourri form my kids. They offered to cook dinner for me, too, but they got home so late from school I had already eaten. My Valentine's meal was a tuna fish sandwich and a large glass of Merlot. I had the CD player blaring and I counted this as a day to remember...one in which I felt very, very loved despite the fact that I have no lover, no H and no Sweetheart.<P>I had a good day, anyway....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

THAT'S IT <P>Actually I'm not even all that afraid he'll seek excitement elsewear. I can't rule it out, but I truly think the whole experience was negative, that he would not want to give up his girls and that he is really horrified by his own behavior. <P>And, like you...I am willing to take the emotional lead. <P>However, I feel like a hamster on a wheel...running as fast as I can being Wonder Wife...and getting nowhere...unless you count the trip to the land of hurt feelings.<P>I know if I stop the only way to coast is downhill. So I depuff and go on.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL - Your H not only has a sleep disorder, sounds like he's got a "love disorder" too.<P>I gave my W flowers and a V-day card yesterday even though we're really at odds right now. (She gave me a card too.) We had dinner together at home and a nice talk, before she had to break off to go watch Ally McBeal. (I hate that show!)<P>Anyway, that's my V-day. It wasn't so bad.<P>--Wex

FHL,<BR>I didn't take it wrong. Guard did great with the gifts, I mean it was more than I would have expected on our best year. But...my apprehension continues.<P>Seeing what everyone else lacked, I feel pretty churlish, but I've gotten less than nothin' before, so I know how that feels as well. I feel like I "owe" something now. And he feels I "deserved" all of this.<P>As one of the character's in THE GREEN MILE said, I think my cheese has done slipped off my cracker. <P>Lor<BR>

Ok, I'm a day late, but I want in on this party too.<P>Heck Mike didn't even tell me Happy V. Day untill after I told him first, and then had to ask if he was going to say it to me too !<P>This really hurt my feelings, as he was at the store Sunday night, I mean a card would have been nice !<P>Oh but he brought me a jar of olives when he came home from work this morning ! Big whoop.<BR>And then he wanted sex. <P>I didn't want much, just a $5.00 mini rosebush, some chocolate and a card. <P>Some days I don't think he will ever get it !<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Olives? <P>I am still caught between seeing this as a meaningless commericial holiday which has no bearing on how much my H does/doesn't love me...and wondering if I just should wake up and smell the cofee...or whatever that saying is.<P>I did point out a week or so ago what day Valentine's was when I was going over the schedule. I was out of town with daughters on a tourney until late Saturday. He asked me what I wanted to do. I said I would be available either Sunday or Monday night for anything and that it would be really sweet if he planned it.<P>I guess I could have put buy your wife a card, you big dummy, on his almighty "to do" list. Or would that have been a disrespectful judgement?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

See, this is where I have a problem with the thoughtless gifts/no gifts/thoughtless behaviour. If they have had good, non LB hints (read - anything short of a brick in the head with "treat your wife well and here's how ya do it), it hurts that much more. <P>If we say nothing, we beat ourselves up and blame ourselves for not enlightening them. Either way it's a bummer and a half and a quarter and nine tenths ...to the exponent 34256434.

To FHL Thanks for the support<P>To Deb OLIVES? Are they used as a sexual enhancer or something? That is a strange item to get on VDAY.<P>To all<P>I agree Valentine's Day was a let down this year. I am thinking of not celebrating any Holiday's at all anymore. Starting with the next one to come. H's bday.

WAY TO GO LONELY MOM!!! Don't celebrate your husband's b-day! I like that idea! You sort of brightened my miserable day!<P>~Woozy

FH&L and lonelymom,<P>Yes olives. Nice green ones. And not even yesterday.<P>You see, he hates olives, I like them, so he sees buying a jar of olives for me as a major thing. He usually does it when he knows he has goosed the moose (messed up bad.).<P>I didn't hit him upside the head or anything yesterday, but I did let him know that my feelings were hurt. Of course a couple of his friends let me know how wrong I was to tell him that.<P>I don't think I was wrong, I have said before that if he does something that hurts me and I don't let him know , then I tend to start getting a resentment , big time. And by the time it does come out , well let us just say it's not pretty. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

I had the sweetest thing happen yesterday. My daughter is a girlscout and I bought a bunch of cookies. I started a diet two weeks ago and was in a panic about having that stuff in my house. My landscaping helpers, both of them non speaking Mexican's were cleaning the yard. I stopped and gave them a box of cookies. About 15 minutes later they show up on my porch with a beautiful bouqet of flowers. It felt really good to be thought of even by strangers. I feel like god is watching over me lately. Anyway just thought I would share. Take care all.<P>Gerri

FHL<BR>I'm with you on abolishing V-day. I'd like to abolish all special occasions. In my life every one of them has been contaminated.<BR>Last year H took me out to supper since it was a week after he had "ended" it with the bimbo. He was there in body. Little did I know that he had bought my gift the day before when he drove an hour and a half to spend the day before V-day with the bimbo.<BR>Okay enough wallowing. <BR>I tried yesterday to avoid acknowledging the day. H bought me a palm sander and a box of chocolates.<BR>I have come to the conclusion that I would really like to avoid all holidays til I feel that I have healed a bit. You see he made a great big deal out of it last year but it was all a lie. <BR>Do you think we could just throw out the calendars?<BR>Take care honey. You know they are a little dense. He does love you though. You know that!

Wow, I have a computer again! Finally my house (most of it) is decorated and the furniture and computer have come out from their dropcloth hibernation. I’ve missed this forum. While the rest of you guys have your pity party, let me tell you about the other side of the coin. See that person over there looking really sheepish? The one with egg on her face? That’s me – the doink in the corner. Once again, I blew it. <P>I had left hubby cards all over the house. The mushy type, the kind he buys - I always go for the humorous ones. In the fridge, in his car, coat pocket, etc. I waited for him to call me, and was upset that he didn't. I was running a fever and by the time I got home, was just plan miserable.<P>I got home to dimmed lights, a lobster dinner (drawn butter, the works). Beautiful bouquet of flowers, freshly-ironed linens, candles, and a new CD on the stereo (my favourite song is on the Nottinghill soundtrack). No kids in sight, clean house, met at the door with a glass of champagne. I ducked upstairs to get changed and met my kids – pizza, pop and chips in my bedroom and enuf videos to last a week. Dad told them they were banned from the downstairs coz we were having a proper “date”. They pushed me down the stairs saying we were banned from upstairs until …. giggle, giggle (our youngest figures until Alley McBeal comes on). The little one says do I like the flowers? Yes. And my other surprise, the special one? Uh … <P>So downstairs I go, thinking what a perfect V-day. Wonderful dinner, a romantic dance to my favourite song (tripping over the dog), I gave him his gifts, we watched a tape, I was waiting for my “special surprise”. Nothing. Finally, after much guessing and some creative hinting, I finally realize its not coming. Now this is really stupid, after the great night, but I felt disappointed! He noticed, asked what was wrong, was I disappointed. His feelings were hurt, mine were hurt, eventually I learned that my little boy’s were hurt (it was HIS present he was asking about – duh). What a ending. <P>Later we went to “watch Alley McBeal”, but I hadn’t been feeling well all day, and that wasn’t great either. As we were falling asleep, he moved away from me coz I was running a fever and was too hot (I knew I was burning up). <P>I feel like dying my hair red and marrying a Cuban. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by moira2 (edited February 15, 2000).]

I don't know what to say to you Lor. I really did have nothing but the greatest of intentions to give you a really nice day and to let you know that you are the love of my life. You feel like you owe me something, and I feel like I owe you for saving my life, and it is such a great debt and heavy burden that I will never be able to repay you for it. <P>How do you repay someone for saving their life? <P>

Hope you don't mind if I spill some of my pity here to. <P>I have been dreading Vday for a year now. My wife started her affair last Vday by sneaking away to the othermans house for what she claims was the best sex she ever had. Needless to say, I wanted to skip the big Vday this year. Decided to bite the bullet though this year and send my wife a dozen roses at work. I figured if I wanted to be married, I needed to act like it. Well when she got home from work, it ends up the florist doubled my order and sent 2 dozen roses. My wife didn't act to happy however and looked like she had been crying all day. Most of the people she works with know that she had an affair and apparently the rumor mongers were wondering if the flowers were from her husband or the other man. Seems like her biggest concern was what everyone else thought about her and not that I was making an attempt to get on with our marriage and show her that I am trying to love her. She also told me she saw the other man on the floor at the hospitol she works on a couple of weeks ago. She didn't bother to tell me about this when it happened, and was telling me how she was so sorry that she wrecked her chance to be friends with the guy by turning their relationship sexual. As far as I know that was all their relationship was about. Her sadness about the loss of friendship is a turn from what she told me in December about how the guy was an a55h*l@ that used her. Anyway, talk of lost friendship was what I heard from her last year when I found out she started pursueing the guy again.<P>Anyway, enough and on to another year and more holiday memories to look forward to.

Hey, I may be a day late and a dollar short but I want in on this party too! <P>Well my V day started out great. Flowers and 2 cards in the morning and an e-greeting on my e-mail at work. He ordered a nice dinner in for the two of us, lit some candles for effect. After dinner I was excited to give him my gift, a pot he admired in a shop we went to together (he collects pottery). I even wrapped in this homemade paper he likes so much. And then I realized he did not get me anything! We have always exhanged gifts on Valentines day in the past. I was so hurt. I just went upstairs and went to bed. I could not even talk. I was just stunned. Not even a jar of olives (I love olives!)<P>I suppose it could have been worse but given his past (very romantic) it was hard to take.<BR>BBut lets not banish any holiday except our SO birthdays. Let's just learn to enjoy them for ourselves and make them happy in spite of our thoughtless spouses.<BR>Acacia

To be fair, I just had to tell you guys H came home tonight and apologized repeatedly for messing up Valentine's Day and making me sad. He kept telling me he really had tried to think of things, just didn't do anything. Actually for him I guess this showed effort.<P>He also wondered if he got me a belated Valentine's card if it would make it better or worse. Thought that was kind of funny.<P>He asked one guy at work what he had gotten his wife and he responded..."oh, I was thinking of doing the dishes for her one night this week."<P>Guess he works with some pretty unromantic geeks. He fits right in.<P>Anyway, I'm done with my pity party.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Well, I'm late too.... go figure! <P>I got exactly what I expected..... Nothing. I gave exactly the same. The Divorce should be final soon, I'm just surprised I didn't get the final papers yesterday. <P>I did get something today from my doctor... he thinks I have ulcers (have a UGI next week), my triglicirides are beyond the danger zone, hormonal imbalance, etc... I'm going to start rattling like a maricca from all the meds I'm now on, and ..... as soon as the D is final, I won't have any health insurance. <P>I guess I'm a little down because I didn't even get anything from my Dad this year... he always gets us (sis & I) candy for V-day. I was really looking forward to that this year, since I knew I wouldn't get any pink roses from H. <P>No cards, no candy, no flowers, no phone calls.... nothing.<P>Butterfly<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>