Here is my weekly whine or that is what it is like to me. Sorry.<P>The news finally came that my OS will not be allowed back into the school he is attending at the moment. He has wasted a $15k a year education & most likely lost his chance getting into the colleges of his choice. He chose not to do his work, he chose to sneak out, he chose to drink after school at the hawkers, he made these choices but I <B>HATE</B> that I cannot fix it. I have been crying off & on for the last 2 hrs. There is nothing I can do; I have done what I can. He needs to live with the consequence, but yet I still want to fix it.<P>Then there is my H. I asked him to please come home last weekend. It was a big party weekend here & thanks to the good old snooping software I had a pretty fair idea of what OS was planning. I felt I needed H here to help out. He could had gone down to the hotel where they were throwing the party & see if there were parents there (pretty sure there were not), he could had gone looking for OS when he didn't make curfew again. But here I sat in this house trapped because my YS is asleep, we don't have a maid,<I>(most expats here have live ins)</I> so I couldn't leave.<BR>In 17 yrs of my H traveling I have <B>NEVER </B> asked him to come home, ask for him to be home for certain events but <B>NEVER</B> because I felt I needed help. I did help just never ask for it.<P>But H feels he is also in a crisis, that he is falling a part, he needs time to decide, etc. He did call all weekend & was supportive by phone, was hard to hear, sounds sick & his voice was bad. After Sunday don't hear from him, I didn't email either, so Tue I call& left message on his HP voicemail, are you still coming home Wed <I>(need to know so I can clean house, 1 of H' EN)</I>. Early Wed morning my time I receive the following emails from him:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have been sick the last two days - I laid around and did nothing. I am searching for what I need to do to change my life - my problems have been passed on to OS, and this has hurt him considerably.<P>I don't know what has happened to me - but I am very tired. I am fine; I will be home in a couple of days.<P>Tell the boys that I love them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>and then a few minutes later the following<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know that I have been acting crazy; I wish I could turn back the clock several years and begin anew. I would have left this job and been at home more; now, I just want to quit, but I have waited too late to find a new job.<P>Every aspect of my life is a mess now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I wrote back some supportive stuff, didn't even let him know I just found that OS had snuck out again, & I was waiting for him to return, he did with in 40 minutes of me 1st calling his phone.<P>Now to this morning. Since receiving notice via email that OS will have to find another school. I have sent 2 emails; left 2 voice messages, & called his office here, trying to get a phone number. The office here doesn't have one. So I started wondering if this whole I am failing apart routine is just not elaborate ruses. <P>By not coming back here last Wed when he was schedule this give him plenty of time to go to the states to see OW. She had wanted him back in the states this month & Thursday is his birthday. I can't get it out of my head that he is really back in the states. When he calls it just shows up overseas, doesn't matter if it is Malaysia or the USA, it is all-overseas. <P>Just my meandering thoughts. <P><I>I will survive, I will survive.</I><P>

Hi hon,<P>I am heading off to bed (it's so late here and I'm *yawn* quite tired)...<P>I will answer this more fully tomorrow...<P>But... I see you, lovely sing, in pain... and for that, I am deeply sorry. <P>(((((sing))))))<P>Talk tomorrow.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Sing,<P>No need for apologies here. It always helped me to talk or write out things as I saw them.<P>Your H is in a real bad place now. Its obvious that he is struggling. The OW, I think, is losing her power. Keep on being supportive and let him know that it's not to late to turn back the clock.<P>I know things are very difficult for your son now. He will get back on track. Try talking to your H about your son's need for his presence without including any talk of your marriage. This was it keeps it simple for him since he seems to be in a state of confusion.<P>Did you get the hearlight verse for the day that talked about giving over all of your anxieties to God? It's from Peter and I can't remeber the exact location. Do this. I did it many times during the day when things were overwhelming for me. Give it up as many times during the day as you have to, even if its five minutes after the first time. There is a calm that comes with this that is so undescribable.<P>take care,<BR>cleo

<B>Cleo,</B><P>Thanks. I know I got the heartlight verse, it rings a bell, I went & checked the archives. I preinted it out, maybe I will just carry it around with me for the rest of the day. Thanks for reminding me. I miss getting them every morning, I get them in the afternoon here.<P>Thanks again you made me not feel so alone.<P>you too <B>Nyneve</B> hope you had a nice sleep. <p>[This message has been edited by sing (edited May 22, 2001).]

Hi <B>sing</B>,<P>It's late here in H-town, and I don't have much to say...maybe tomorrow when I have time to think about it.<P>I did want to say that I thought of you today and wondered how you were. I'll say a prayer for you and yours again.<P>It does sound like your H is softening, but I don't remember if he has ever talked like that before.<P>Anyway, it may not happen as quickly as we'd like, but I'm hoping for the best for you.<P>Steve<BR>

My dear Sing,<P>I am sorry for the problems you are undergoing with your son. You are not whining, you are a mother and wife in deep pain. You are welcome to say your peace/piece here and you can e-mail me anytime. <P>I remember my stubborn days, parents seem to think they all have it the worse and then you hear of other stories. Anyway, my parents used to think I was the worse child they ever dealt with. My mom used to say I was worse than all 9 of the children in her family. That used to make me feel real bad and I knew I was not 'that bad' of a child. <P>Hold you son, tell him you love him and hope one day he can make sensible decisions he would be proud of. Let those words ring in his ear and say your wish is that these words come back even when you are not around him. My mom would say that and boy did it keep ringing in my ears. I tried to get it out but just could not. <P>As for your H, he still has a strong love for his family. He needs to figure out which one he will live with. He knows he can't have both, but you know what? It sounds like he is closer to making a decision. Remember my H? All that waffling up til the last minute? Even after all that last night hugging with OW and her 'very vivid' descriptions of their last night together (YUCK) still didn't stick. He is here and as long as he keeps his word, he can stay. Hm.... never thought I would be this strong huh? <P>Thanks to the support I received here. So stick with us. We will help you pull through. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

<B>Steve</B>,<P>Thanks for the thoughts & prayers. Looks as if H maybe coming out of it but I can't get this thought out that he might really be in H-town (sounds as if you listen to the Jungle). I have to really restrain myself from writing a nasty email saying are you where you say you are. So I have been good.<P><B>Orchid</B>,<P>When my son came home last night I thanked him for coming in so quickly, that shocked him. I told him a few home truths without any LB's, he even thanked me for not yelling. Doubt if I got through to him. I am not telling him about school till after exams if I can, I want him to try his hardest. If his grades on exams are good I might go try & fight this but I don't kow how many more battles are in me. Thanks for always being here for me. I think of you every time I see the very plentiful orchid plants that are here. I haven't done a great job in raising them but I sure do enjoy them.<P>

You sound really depressed. You need to take care of yourself. Easy for me to say, I know. But think about some concrete steps:<P>1. Son can go to a local school. Schools in XXXX are very good and he is sure to get into a reasonable college. Life does not center around ivy league. So relax on that. In fact, will save you money.<P>2. When H comes home, easy to check his passport. You will know where he was. <P>3. Get a live-in help. You can not live alone with two boys and a husband that travels if another situation arises where you have to go after OS. Live-in will also clean the house. On an expat salary this should not be outside the realm of possibility.<P>4. Your husband sounds really depressed. He needs help. Any chance he would be willing to speak to someone about this? <P>5. Have you made any friends in XXXX? If not, how about focusing on that? You need a support system.<P>Katie<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Katie_s (edited May 24, 2001).]

Good Morning to you, <B>sing</B>... think about that name change yet? Maybe... um... Gloria Gaynor? (Remember, <I>I Will Survive!</I>). You said to think disco! <P>All I know is that you are one hell of a mother and wife. Life is so hard... and being there, with no friends or family, is something I can obviously relate to (since I am now in a not-so-foreign country, but a different country nonetheless, and without friends and family also). The phone is TRULY my lifeline to *home*.<P>Your son? Well, another one of those things I understand, as you know. You want to take him, put him in your pocket, and carry him around, I bet. I want to do that with all three of my kids, but most especially my son. How well I understand.<P>Just know that you are not alone, and that you are being heard...<P>(((((Gloria Gaynor)))))<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

<B>Nyneve</B>,<P>Yes, I want to put my son in a pocket. What is he doing the night before exams start, <B>SLEEPING</B>, while most of the 900 & so students of the HS are cramming their overloaded brains, my son is asleep, most likely sleeping off the beer from the hawkers after<BR>school. <P><BR>Gloria- do you know I never hear that name with out thinking of this awful song by this awful band, don't know the name but it had this phrase Gloria do you waddle or something like that. Way back in 1986 when my H still loved me, we went to India with him for 2 mths. I took my then OS, who was 18 mths when left & lived in the Palm Grove Hotel for 2 mths. Now some of you have heard what I think of Singapore TV, well it is wonderful compared to what was available in this hotel. They had 4 or 5 tapes of recorded programs; they play over & over again. The Gloria do you waddle & Olivia Newton John singing Let's Get Physical will forever be entrenched in my mind. OS use to dance in his diapers to those tunes. now I am going to be hearing Gloria do you waddle all night in my dreams. <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by sing (edited May 24, 2001).]

I'm dense, but I DOOOOOOOO GET IT!! <p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 23, 2001).]

<B>sing</B>,<P>Yes, being a sports fan, I sometimes listen to Jim Rome. Enjoy his takes, sometimes the "clones" get a bit tiresome.<P>I'll be on the lookout for your H, but hopefully he's not here, and I won't have to give him a talking-to. However, even if he's not quite out of the fog, he may be coming out. Sometimes there is a lot of wavering and not a clean break like we wish.<P>Gotta go, get kids to school.<P>Take care,<P>Steve<p>[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited May 23, 2001).]

<B>Katie_s</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Katie_s:<P>1. Son can go to a local school. Schools in Singapore are very good and he is sure to get into a reasonable college. Life does not center around ivy league. So relax on that. In fact, will save you money.<P><B>Most expat kids don't go to local school, especially HS, besides not being with their program, I want my son to know how to problem solve, not just answer memorized facts. Ivy League college has never been issue but a decent college was important, that most likely is not an option any longer.p/b] <P>2. When H comes home, easy to check his passport. You will know where he was.<P>Checking my H's passport is easier said than done. His passport does not resemble most peoples, it is roughly the size of a Tom Clancy novel, & that might be on the short side. I have gone through it before, & given the chance I will rifle through it. My counselor & a lawyer tell me I should think about becoming a PI on all the stuff I have found on my H.</B> <P>3. Get a live-in help. You can not live alone with two boys and a husband that travels if another situation arises where you have to go after OS. Live-in will also clean the house. On an expat salary this should not be within the realm of possibility.<P><B>If we return I hope to go with a part time maid a few times a wk, I am too much of a push over for most of the maids here.</B><P>4. Your husband sounds really depressed. He needs help. Any chance he would be willing to speak to someone about this?<P><BR><B>I am hoping he will</B><BR> <P>5. Have you made any friends in Singapore? If not, how about focusing on that? You need a support system.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR><B>It is hard to make friends when you have this dark gloom of doom hanging over your head. I haven't wanted to share my story with the people I meet as the expat community is only so big, if/when things got better I didn't want things know about my H. But I do see a counselor & until the last few wks when everything has been so up in the air, I have been active in several volunteer programs. <P>Thanks for your input. You had some great thoughts.</B>]<P><p>[This message has been edited by sing (edited May 23, 2001).]

<B>Steve & Nyneve</B>,<P>Ya'll win the prize, what is the prize I don't know. My new name will be coming soon. It's debut may wait till I am back state side.<P>May have you guys go back & edit this out of your posts if you don't mind. One of the reasons I want to change is sing & what I have written is way to easy to figure it is me.<P>Thanks.

Sing, I don't have any great advice, but wanted to empathize with you.. especially related to your son.<P>Unfortunatly, in many ways, our "issues" do come to fall onto our children. Ways of coping are passed on to them. I see it in my children. My eldest is a girl, and was just beginning to enter adolescence when H left (15 months ago). In so many ways, she is like her father... and interestingly enough...(and with counseling on my part..and a very hard, but honest assessment of my self!!!) I have found that coming to terms with my own "faulty" parenting (control by overfunctioning) she and I have developed a much better relationship.<P>Funny, how all of these principles in marraige-building, can end up effecting all of your relationships....for the better, even if your marraige isn't resurrected.<P>I know for me, I've ended up learning more about myself, than I've been able to figure out about what the heck has happened to my H!or our marraige.!!!!!!<P>It's so hard to promote personal responsibility in our kids. Especially when many of the adults in our society don't take personal responsibility. <P>As for your H. I can see how you might think this is a ruse for him...but I bet NOT. It's clear he is having a personal crisis... just like my H. Your H can recognize some of the things that are going on within him.... (feeling some responsibilty re: your OS's problems), and that's good.... he just may still be running from it all. (seeing the OW)....and that's bad.. But it is still his choice. <P>My H is doing the same. Will state he has a lot of problems..and is in individual counseling... but... I have the OW right here in my small home town... (though they do not live together, they work together long hours)and a child (now 4 months old). <P>It actually sounds to me, but you would know better, that your H is "feeling" more things...more empathy towards others (your OS)..and that sounds positive.<P>Anyway, my thoughts are with you.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sing:<BR><B>[b]<BR>May have you guys go back & edit this out of your posts if you don't mind. One of the reasons I want to change is sing & what I have written is way to easy to figure it is me.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Edited. Let me know if you want any others edited. It was easy to figure out, even though it's been a long time since it saw the movie. I lost both parents in infancy, and there was a particular time in the movie you refer to when I just about lost it, so it made an impression on me.<P>If I may ask, is your concern mostly about someone outside the family or family members? More going forward or extending to all your prior posts? If you're concerned about family, you'll want to set up IE to not automatically fill in your username and password. Security on your PC would be better if you use Windows 2000.<P>I know something about this, since I'm working on Microsoft's MCSE certification. Many have concerns about emailing off board, but if you wish to ask questions, you can email me at smmcse@yahoo.com . I do give my wife free run to look at my email, but otherwise will hold anything you say in confidence.<P>As for your OS's college, maybe it's best for him to go to a community college and/or work for a year or two. I had many problems when I first went to college, didn't do too well for most of it, and got two degrees that ultimately were not in what I should have studied. Many years and more college hours and classes later I'm now starting in the area I probably should have been in all along.<P>Sometimes it's better to get things right than to think we have to do certain things right away. If he stays out of prison and doesn't do anything really disastrous, he has lots of time to get straightened out. Not that it's easy waiting for that to happen, but a little different perspective would probably help you.<P>Just my thoughts, hope you find something helpful in there.<P>Steve

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nyneve:<BR><B>I'm dense, but I DOOOOOOOO GET IT!! <P>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 23, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi sing,<P>I edited too!! <P>

sing - sorry I'm late. I can hear some sincerity in your H's messages. Has he said these things before? Your ruse suspicions are understandable, but keep an open mind.<P>I think I know your new name, but I won't specify because I'm pretty sure I'm correct.<P>WAT

Hey Sing,<P>Just read your post. Sorry this is all happening at once. You know Monday night on one of the channels they aired Steel Magnolias. Oh my. I had a copy of the tape and my neice would have to watch it every day when she was three. I think she was working on her southern accent. Just shows what us sothern women can live through. <P>We have family friends who live/lived in Singapore. Wow talk about a different life. I know what it is like living over seas. If you are military being forced around other Americans might be even worse. I never liked being forced into groups like that. It is like being in a fish bowl.<P>As for your son he might be acting out the anger of the affair. Can you imagine how hard it is for him. Him stuck in Singapore and your H running to the states to have sex with some woman. Not really fair and I am sure he feels abandoned by your H. <P>My dad left us. He cheated on my Mom and was at times very cruel about it. My sister did not handle the abamdonment as well as I did. It hurts but I did not feel it as profound as my sister did. She acted out and all around trouble. Maybe your son needs to see a therapist about this. It is hard beeing a teenager, then dealing with your fathers betrayal, and living in another country. All that is eating away at him. Look into it. Giving him a place to talk without worring about hurting anyone feelings.<P>(((((SING)))))))

Thanks <B>Steve & Sheryl[b].No,Steve I don't think anyone has been on but with coming to the states on homeleave or maybe back to stay, I thought it would be a good time to change. Plus if I could my H here to read, I would like to write with out him knowing it was me, maybe. <P>[b]Dave,</B> could never be too late.<P> I am trying to give H the benefit of the doubt but it is getting harder. In almost 36 hrs I have received 1 email from him. I had asked if he had a break down, he basically yes, that everything work & personal is a disaster, he said before at least 1 was good. That I was right he needs help, he be back Sat & we would talk about everything then, He was an appointment with witch lady shrink Mon, & that his parents are checking summer school for OS where they live. As I was online I emailed right back, no answer, no answer to the message I left on voice mail, no answer to email sent this morning asking for a phone #, as I was very uncomfortable not having one with all the stuff going on here. But I am trying not to borrow troubles, I haven't written or sent any of the vindictive rants I want to send & write. I will be good....<P><BR><B>Pahakissa1,</B><P>Yes my son is acting out. He is sort of seeing someone but because our plans are so unclear at the moment it is hard to follow through. My H will be talking to her on Mon, so maybe after that we will have a plan.<P>We are not military & not with one of the big oil companies that have a huge present here, so I don't have to play happy company wife. You just run into the same people if your kids are the same age. Like our baseball team, 3 of the other moms were scout leaders, so we all see each other at den leaders meeting, pack meetings, etc. <P>Talk about southern accents. I have one of those weird TN accents, can you say hick, but mine is more southern, however I say all sorts of words weird, I don't pick up sounds. I have the hardest time on the phone here, I just fax, everything I can from my grocery list to the provisioned, to getting an appointment to have my haircut. Years ago we liven in NW CO for about 6 months, I faithfully watched Designing Women, just so I could hear all those wonderful Southern Accents.<P>Thanks to everyone for being here. Ya'll got me through another bad day. <I>[/i]I will have good days again. I will.</I><BR>

Hey Sing,<P>How come your H will not give you a phone number? Does he do this offten? Can you trace his calls? <P>As for son my guess he is acting out over everything. Maybe ask him what he suggests would help the situation.<P>I live in New England now. I grew up in Texas and know what you mean about missing the south.

Well I just got back from talking to my counselor. I show her the emails from H; she thought he is really having a hard time & that even if he is with the OW that he is still most likely falling apart.<P>That for now I will just have to deal with everything, she help to see there is really not much I can do, but chill. The decisions of summer school for OS cannot be made till after exams, & we know what he failed. That making a decision for school next year doesn’t have to be done now, people enroll her all year. That I should take YS’s day off from school tomorrow, & go do something fun; think we will go see the pink dolphins, maybe finally get that photo with them that we have wanted. But that I may have to make all decisions as my H may not be capable of it at this time, that people who try to be the best have a harder time dealing with failure than others. <P>That I can only appeal to my son, & that if he doesn’t comply that he will face the consequences one of which could be boarding school.<P>I am calmer now. I manage to drive & not run over any motorcyclist. <BR>

Life as an expat can be very lonely (yeah, did go through it once). I am really sorry. I hope things will work out for all of you. <p>[This message has been edited by Katie_s (edited May 24, 2001).]

Hugs and more hugs Sing. late here and I just got home from a work function. Will get back to you tomorrow. Wish i could pop around for coffee. Bad news about Os - nut not the end of the world. Wish I could find that H of yours and give him a good shaking. <P>ER

Sing, You have a lot on your plate right now. This board is a nice place to bring those things because we get so much support and advice from people who are essentially walking in our shoes.<P>Maybe, just maybe, your H is hitting the bottom. It seems that they need to first. You mentioned that people who try so hard to be best have the hardest time with failure. I'm assuming you are talking about your H? A perfectionist??<P>I'd have to agree. And would put my H in the same category.<P>I have a friend here, another physician, who had a terrible time with drugs. Was taking very illegal drugs from the OR an injecting them. He HAD to go to a rehab...and stayed for about 6 months. He has been in his own recovery for about 3 years. But it is a daily thing for him. When my H began this bizaar journey...he mentioned to me that he could see himself in my H's eyes. He began talking to me about how difficult it is to be a perfectionist. He actually tried talking to my H, but of course, my H wasn't in a place to listen... and pretty much is still not. (not close to the bottom)<P>My friend said that at least with drugs and alcohol you more than likely reach a place where you HAVE to admit you have a problem or you will lose your job, your life etc. This type of addiction is socially acceptable, but just as devastating.<P>BTW...the wierd TN accent wouldn't be from NETN would it? I live there now. It is a different type of southern accent all right.

Hi Sing,<P>Glad you are doing better. It does not hurt your son for him to know there are reactions to every action. I still might think it is a cry of pain because of what your H has done. <P>Hang in there.