Marriage Builders
Posted By: sickwithworry I can't believe it's not true - 05/19/08 09:35 PM
As a newbie to this I have read a lot of the material and probably now know what I should have known all along, but was afraid to admit. I'll try to make this short, and any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

My wife and I met in college and were married shortly after I joined the military. 2 kids, great house, my own business after the military. Then a few years ago business went down the tubes, stress etc. I had to rejoin the military and was sent away from home. About a year ago I noticed when i would come home for weekends my wife had stopped wearing her wedding ring. She was aloof and started hanging around with a group of friends much younger. I asked her about it, she didn't want to discuss. I found bladder infection medication in her drawer and lingerie in her drawer that would make a victoria's secret model blush. When I asked her about them she said the medicine was ancient and she had had the lingerie for 2 years but never worn it (the expiration date indicated current and the following weekend the price tags had been cut from the panties and they had been worn.) The following weekend she encouraged me not to come home since i was coming home the following weekend. I didn't, then heard from the kids that she got home at 2AM sunday morning. I looked at the cell phone record and she called the house a little before 2 and then spent 20 minutes on the phone with someone. I asked her about it and she got very defensive and said she was next door. I said, "So you called from 20 feet away to wake up the kids to see if they're in bed? And who were you talking to?" Cornered, she told me I had no right to ask her that!

I saw in her favorites list a login to google mail and asked her if she had one. Nope. I went down to our office and she was acting very strange, wouldn't leave me alone with her computer, she finally left and I saw that only a couple of days before no less that 8 emails were sent and received from her password protected computer. Confronted her, she flew in to a rage and said , "we are not doing this anymore," then made up a story about how one of her friends must have used her computer when they stopped by for lunch that day. She also told me that, yes, men were chasing after her and in fact "she was having to WARD them off!" (I am not surprised, my wife is, even objectively speaking a real bombshell, blonde, 5'2" 105 lbs with a knockout body, even at 41)

A month ago, she lied to me about going to a costume party where although she told me she stayed for 30 minutes, apparently she changed outfits 5 times and was there for several hours. The party was so wild the police came twice, mind you my wife is 41 years old (I am 42). When I confronted her about her lies on this again, rage. She told me the next day she wanted a separation. She said she "needed time and space to figure this out, she didn't know how long it would take, and if i pushed i would not like the answer." I asked her if this included dating other people. At first she said yes, then she said that it really wasn't on her radar because there really wasn't anybody she would be interested in right now, but if someone came along who was really sweet and considerate she would think about it. She told me it would be best if I stayed at my dad's the next weekend.

I kept the kids there for 2 weeks, during which time she basically ignored us, partying with her group of younger friends. One saturday night she said she was going to a friends house for a "girls party" and spending the night. The next morning we couldn't get in touch with her and when I went over to the house in the afternoon she wasn't there but had been, and on the counter was a receipt for, you guessed it...uninary tract infection medication.

We are scheduled to see a counselor next friday, but I think she may be so in love with someone else, and in the selfish mode so seriously that it may not even be worth the effort.

I apologize for the long post, but would love the benefit of your wisdom.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/19/08 10:38 PM
I don't think you need any more proof for you to believe that your WW is having an affair. But your WW will deny that she is haing an affair without proof.

Time to install a keylogger on her computer. Quitely get copies of phone and cell phone bills. Place a voice activated digital recorder in WW's car and in your home.

Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 12:04 AM
And while you are gathering evidence, get tested for STD's. Having regular sex does not cause a UTI. It may because of the frequency in which she is having it. Not safe for you.
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 12:40 PM
Thanks for the reply,

How do I get around the anti-virus software on her computer though? Is there a brand that bypasses this?

Also, I have been an idiot haven't I? It's so obvious how could I have been so, what seems like unwillingly blind to this?
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 12:42 PM
When you say frequency what do you mean? I know that she only gets these things when she's not been having sex for awhile and then does. Do you mean that it's sporadic, as in someone from out of town who comes in infrequently, or something else?

Sorry if this is a dumb question.
Posted By: Tyk Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 01:55 PM
You're no more an idiot than many of us have been.

Get proof, you need to know what you're dealing with, if its one specific OM (likely) or just a party lifestyle with perhaps multiple As. You need to know, so you can formulate a plan of attack.

Study Plan A, identify and stop all lovebusters, become the H you should have been all along. I don't know if you are still in the military or not, but long absenses are a breeding ground for infidelity.

You need to do everything you can to end the A. You should not move out of your home. If you are still moved out, move back in IMMEDIATELY. It is YOUR home, if she has a problem with it, she can move out.
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 03:34 PM
Thanks tyk,

yes i am still in the military and can only get home sporadically. I am in the US this time though which is nice. I will be away for another year. I didn't mention this before, but now we are bouncing checks. she has control of the finances and I am clueless how we go through 10K per month after taxes but she is always telling me how broke we are. She says she is spending $300 per week on gas. I understand long carpools and a suburban and high gas prices, but that's ridiculous.

I didn't post this before, but the reason I chose "sickwithworry" probably has to do with this previous weekend. She was so desperate to "visit her aunt" who was at the beach that she left our son at home to be picked up by my brother in law and nephew after a basketball game at 10PM so he could spend the night with them at a hotel. She called at 11PM and said she was walking on the beach and not to bother calling the house because she had to leave early in the morning for a tennis match. I called the club, no official matches.

Thing is, her stories always have a slight hint of the possibility of truth. They are pretty outrageous, sure, like I bought the UTI medicine for our neighbor, but so hard to prove absolutely false. It is very frustraing and is literally eating my insides out.

On the moving back in, I agree. We go see a counselor next friday, for what it's worth and after that I will. After that I intend to shut down the bank account, take over all the finances, request, or call and change all the passwords on the accounts that are in my name (including her precious cellphone) and put her on a budget like anyone else is.
Posted By: Pariah Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 03:58 PM
Sickwithworry, I was a master snooper with the sneakiest, most lying WW ever and I caught her easily.


First off, you will need to get a voice activated digital recorder and hide it in the car. Change the batteries daily.

Place it in the car when she is away or sleeping.

Retrieve and replace it when you take the car to get groceries or put fuel in it.

Store all recordings on your computer.

Waywards are "so smart" that they are clueless and stupid to a science.

You can use your carrier's online tools to get the phone records with ease. I just registered with the carrier online under her name and number. I got ALL the calls and text messages.

When she went and figured out what I was up to, she had them change the password on the account and that part of the game was up.

When you finally do confront her, she will deny everything even though you repeat word for word what was on the recordings.

Make sure you give the OMW a copy of everything, even if there are several OMW's. You will get one of their atteintion.

However it looks as your's is wanting to be a party girl and there isn't much to break up, except for letting the children know what their mother is doing.
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 04:09 PM
Pariah,

Thanks for the advice. Which keylogger do you recommend, and where do you get one of the voice recorders? Radio Shack or something?

It is so true what you said about confronting your WW with your evidence of actual words and voice recordings. I confronted my wife with the lingerie, the UTI meds, the google email account, all of it would require the willing suspension of disbelief! And I could tell she was lying. It was so easy, her face flushed, she paused and then out it came, but so good as to be almost believable, except it wasn't. She won't come off it though. Except for the time I slowly led her into one, and when cornered like an animal, her only response could be, "you have no right to ask me that (i.e. where I was till 2AM and who i spoke with.)

I will begin reading PART A and try to dissolve some of the feelings, which vascillate between anger and hopelessness coupled with self-pity...
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Pariah
However it looks as your's is wanting to be a party girl and there isn't much to break up, except for letting the children know what their mother is doing.

This is the impression that I'm getting as well.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by sickwithworry
Except for the time I slowly led her into one, and when cornered like an animal, her only response could be, "you have no right to ask me that (i.e. where I was till 2AM and who i spoke with.)

Hmm... you have every right to know where your W has been and what she's been doing.

I'll ask the question that I ask of almost everyone else that I see in your position: why do you want to remain M'd to your W? What are her redeeming qualities? Can you see yourself spending the rest of your life with her, and getting the love, trust and commitment from her than you'd expect in an M?

Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 04:43 PM
That is an excellent question. Why do I want to remain married to her?

She has never been affectionate, was a spoiled wealthy child, hated my family, and is insufferably selfish. She is a pathological liar, about even the littlest things, has to play one-upsmanship at all times, is extremely social conscious (has to be on the museum board etc.) and has never treated me with any love or respect. She stopped saying "I love you years ago" if she ever really said it at all, criticized me for the wedding ring I gave her because it was my grandmother's and she felt it was a hand-me-down, and does whatever she can to destroy my self-respect. The counselor I saw told me after all the evidence I gave, that, despite the fact that she did not know my wife, she felt it was not at all a certaintly that she was having an affair, but that she was very intelligent and felt the need to "win at all costs" whatever the price. That this was a control issue and I had been confronting her about her lies for the first time and she wanted it stopped.

So, why do I want to remain married? I think I am in shock, and assigning her the right to define my self-worth. I feel if she doesn't love me and is leaving me for someone else, that makes me a sack of crap. I know it's not sensible, but if I am honest with myself, that's the reason. I am also fearful of the massive changes that would ensue.
Posted By: Pariah Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 07:00 PM
My wife was just as toxic as your's is.

Mine got to the point of trying to have OM KILL me to keep their affait a secret.



I got my recorder at Circuit City and there are better ones out there now.

She definately go from denial to accusing you of being insane to blaming you for all of your marital problems. In fact she is going to re-write your history and say she only married you because she felt sorry for you.
Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 07:22 PM
Frequent sex can cause a UTI. If you have been seeing the ointment or medicine, this is a huge RED FLAG that she is being sexual. If you feel that your own sex life with her frequents an infection, then perhaps it is because of that, but it would be ODD for her to be hiding the medicine.

From a female perspective, (sorry if this is TMI), sex will usually cause a yeast infection first which requires over the counter ointment. If it moves to a UTI, usually the doctor is involved and there is a prescription. These don't usually happen overnight.

Hope that helps! Still get tested for STD's to be safe.
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 07:32 PM
Oh my lord,

thought about killing you??? On the history re-write that will be a big one. I broke up with her for awhile because I and others thought she was psycho. She started dating a friend of mine to make me jealous, it worked, I told her I wanted her back and she promptly broke up with the other guy who was hurt and outraged that he had been used. I married her not because I felt sorry for her, I thought I loved her, but also felt trapped. She was very persistent and wanted marriage followed quickly by children.
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 07:38 PM

The real kicker is the first time I found the medicine called Uristat (over the counter UTI med) we had not had sex in 3 months. The next time we had had sex once a month before. The latest time, I found the Uristat and she had cut me off from sex for the last six months. More of a red flag I suppose? She used to get these bladder infections, she called them slight, just some itching and a little burning, and take the pills if we had sex, particularly vigorous, and especially if it had been a couuple of weeks or more. Never known her to have a yeast infection.

I would appreciate a little more female counsel if you don't mind. This is the 3rd time I have found this stuff and "we" aren't having sex so I doubt I need to get checked for STD's, but I go see the doctor for my annual soon anyway.
Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/20/08 11:18 PM
Uristat is like a bladder number. It relieves pain so that you don't feel the constant urge to urinate.

Yeast infections are the more itchy, burning stuff.

Bladder infections and UTI's cause the kind of pain that you would use the Uristate for. However, they DO NOT go away without antibiotics.

This may sound really gross, but she may need to bladder number because she is having rigorous sex (as you have pointed out). If she never follows up with an antibiotic, I would be very suspicious.

If she has already proven the need to use this medication after having sex with you and you have stated that you are not having sex with her, you can GUARANTEE (IMHO) that she is having sex outside the marriage.

Cut her off for your own safety!
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/21/08 12:46 PM
Thanks Onlyucan,

I need to let go of this jealousy, which is what it really is, and assess what I really want. I go home this weekend, I will take the kids and let her do what she wants. I think as I read these columns, so many of us allow the WS to control our feelings and thoughts and I need to be stronger than that. We do have counseling next friday, so I may hold off on cutting off her money till then so as not to poison the atmosphere, but in the long run, I think I can't be just sitting around while she makes her "decision."
Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/21/08 03:51 PM
SWW,

Start posting on the GQ thread because there are alot of really great people over there that will give you step by step guidance.

Good luck!
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/21/08 08:47 PM
Will do thanks.
Posted By: Galoot Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/22/08 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by sickwithworry
When you say frequency what do you mean? I know that she only gets these things when she's not been having sex for awhile and then does. Do you mean that it's sporadic, as in someone from out of town who comes in infrequently, or something else?

Sorry if this is a dumb question.


UTI's often occur after sex with a new partner (called honeymoon cystitis)
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/sexual_health/sti/uti.htm
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/22/08 09:35 PM
Thank you. that is what i suspected, sex with a new partner. I think it is someone from out of town and they get together ever few weeks, more frequent now though. I even think I know who it is, she talks to my sister of all people about him fairly frequently. He is a former fraternity brother of mine. Going home this weekend, going to the Sprint Store where the phone is in my name and changing the password and checking cellphone/texts etc. I wonder if you can read text messages sent and received online if you have access.

The look on her face was priceless when I tossed the receipt with the Uristat on the counter after her spend the night with the girls party the night before and asked her if she had yet another bladder ailment. Confusion, flushed cheeks, scrutinizing the receipt like she didn't remember it, then...eureka, I bought it for the neaighbor who has one kidney.

I just told her I didn't care anymore.
Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/23/08 08:57 PM
SWW,

I have one kidney, gave the other one to my brother. I DO NOT need Uristat because of that. It has nothing to do with having one kidney. I only use Uristat when I have a bladder infection that requires the numbing effects before I go to the doctor to get on an antibiotic. The frequency of my bladder infections did not change once I had one kidney either.

You cannot see the actual words of text online, but you can see the phone numbers up until the bill closes and updates and then it will just show total number text messages for the period.

Good luck! Be strong!
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/27/08 01:14 PM
Thanks onlyucan.

Went home this weekend. Had the kids all weekend. Went over to our house saturday to pick up bathing suits and WS said she might go to the beach again but wasnt sure. I told her fine, if she changed her mind she was welcome to have a steak with us. She said she wasn't sure but might spend the night there. I just kind of turned to walk away and she said, "What???" I faltered a bit and then said "you know it makes me nervous when you spend the night out, but i guess you're going to do what you want to do." She said she was just going for dinner and if i was that jealous i could troll by the house at 2AM and see her car was there. I said whatever and left.

About 815 pm she came over (i was fishing on the dock) to announce she was going to the beach and would be spending the night, but would have excellent cell reception. she left us. kids couldnt reach her all night and not in the next AM. At 11 AM she finally called my son. I took the phone and told her she had disrespected me for the last time, spending the night out after i told her how i felt about it, and then being unavailable. She said, "yeah, now you know how it feels, and you better get used to it too, beacause next weekend (after the MC) i have a birthday party for friend out of town, so you have the kids. I hung up.

I don't know if this was the right thing to do according to the manual, probably wasn't, but the next day when she came over and i was getting ready to leave i took her outside. I asked, "is this the way you want to spend the rest of your life?" She looked down and was teary and said no, she had thought about it last night. I told her that the path she was choosing was to grow old alone. I said with a sarcastic look on my face, "I know I have been fixated on you having an affair, I have had rose colored glasses on for a long time about you, but finally a couple of my friends had a talk with me, and now I see that...there's no one that would want to...i mean there's nobody that would...well i dont think you're having an affair put it that way. You may have had a few one night stands, but that's probably it. Just so you know, I am giving you one more chance and then I am out and you can be alone for the next forty years."

She said, "what about you? Will you be alone?"

I said, "probably for a little while, but not for too long. The odds are a little better for single, employed men in their early 40' than they are for divorced women with 2 kids that need to be put through college." I told her she had 2 choices and they had to be made by friday.

She could elect to continue her party chick lifestyle and be alone, or she could put her rings back on for good, go home and tidy up the house and start buying food for the kids and be a mom again. I said I know being a stay at home mom wasn't the most glamorous thing in the world, but that was the life she had chosen and her kids needed her. I said you have till friday, went in hugged the kids and left, her a little teary. She called me three times in the first 1.5 hours trying to be nice. I am not optimistic.
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/27/08 01:17 PM
By the way, this is coming from "NOT so Sick with Worry Anymore"

She is a selfish Bi*ch. Doesn't deserve me or her children. If she doesn't change we'll be better off without her and I can finally move on and find someone who doesn't fixate on themselves ALL the time.
Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 05/27/08 04:30 PM
Not SWW,

You are probably absolutely right. If she has this selfish behavior and does not want to stop or get help, you need to secure yourself and your finances and your children.

There are ways to do this and still maintain your integrity. Get the counseling for yourself if nothing else so you can be the man that your children deserve going through this. They have already lost one role model.

Post on GQ and you will get step by step direction on how to protect yourself and options to choose from.

Good luck and God Bless!

P.S. You are not her father, you are her husband and she needs to respect that.
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 06/02/08 01:56 PM
Well,

went to MC this past friday. She actaully talked and shared some of her resentments to another human being for the first time in i dont know how long. Didn't really matter though, she still left town the next day to spend the night out with the girls for a friends birthday party. Told MC she just doesn't know what she wants.

Went to the bank, changed the bank accounts, went to cellphone, cable etc. and changed the passwords. Looked at the cell bill. the weeekend she spent going to see her "aunt" friday night, there were no phone calls to anyone at all. Only one call to the aunts number in Massachusetts for 2 minutes on saturday morning. she supposedly met the aunt friday night in FL. No call to coordinate when/where do we meet, had a nice time nothing, just one to her number 1500 miles away.

I am thinking it's time to move on. She'll either wake up when faced with life alone or OM, who prob can't support her lavish lifestyle or she won't wake up and I'll get divorced and take care of my kids.

Funny thing is, while I intelectually know she is lying like crazy and is sneaking around, and I should know better than to try to hang on, it's really tough not to backslide into feelings of remorse and self-pity and jealousy.

Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 06/02/08 04:22 PM
It makes complete absolute sense what you are feeling and the emotional roller coaster is real.

Post your story on General Questions and you will get some amazing support on what to do next. There are posts going on there now with similar situations as yours.

You deserve to take action and if it ends up that you are starting over, at least you will be able to say that you have done all that you can. These steps also safeguard for you to be able to save your marriage as well, if that is what is desired and if the other partner is willing to do their part in the recovery process.

Good luck!
Posted By: sickwithworry Re: I can't believe it's not true - 06/02/08 04:25 PM
Thanks a lot onlyucan,

you've been a real help to me these past couple of weeks. Is it bad manners to post an identical thread over in the GQ section? Should I rewrite it so i am not just copying and pasting, or just go with it with the latest details.

Thanks again!
Posted By: onlyUcan Re: I can't believe it's not true - 06/02/08 05:17 PM
It is not bad at all to post the identical thread. I would sum it up with the past and present conditions so you get the best help!!!
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