Marriage Builders
Posted By: Mike C2 Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/06/08 08:13 PM
Hi,

I never thought I'd be making this post.

My wife as been distant. Jiust when through her email and found love notes with a co-worker.

I'm sitting her shaking.

She is on her way home, probably/definitely from being with him.

I plan on sitting her down and confronting her.

I read the rules of confrontation.

any advice? Do this immediately?
Posted By: LovingAnyway Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/06/08 08:20 PM
Mike,

I'm so sorry.

First, print out emails so you have hard copy.

Put away hard copies in safe place.

Drink water and breathe.

Calm yourself.

Yes, state that you just found out about her A as soon as she comes through the door. If you don't feel okay with your self-control, ask her to go for a walk outside to discuss.

Breathe more. Drink more water.

Listen and repeat...don't react. Give yourself time, ask your questions, even if you need to stop and write them down first.

LA
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/06/08 08:30 PM
Save hard copies of your evidence.
Then expose everyone. OMW, WW's parents, WW's siblings, Human Resources at work.

Tell WW she has to go NC and leave her job being OM is a co worker.
Posted By: K Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/06/08 08:39 PM
Hi Mike,

I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I would suggest that you do nothing for now, if you can contain yourself. It's better to deal with this with a plan then to ad hoc it by reacting to your emotions. If you do need to expose/confront---I would suggest doing it only with your wife at first.

I'd be more comfortable giving you advice after hearing what's been going on for the last few years, where you're at, where you think you're wife's at, etc... And I'll close with the usual advice---it wouldn't hurt to get a session or two with one of the Harley's before you do anything.

Steve used to always tell me to not react during these situations. You need to stay calm, and not make any huge decisions. Act. Don't react.
Posted By: jayne241 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/06/08 09:08 PM
Yes I agree, if you can then hold off a bit with the confrontation, give yourself time to think this through.

You want to be calm and do this the way you want. You want to be proactive, not reactive.

You want to have evidence. You may want time to gather more evidence. You don't want to tip your hand too soon.

I am so sorry.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/06/08 09:46 PM
Mike,

I agree with the others. Get hard copy and then do as K suggested. You want to act, nor react. Actions take planning. Get the data, then look at it, and then make a plan to act on.

What has been your situation the last few years? That is important for us to know. Also, when you confront your W, what is her reaction. That will also be important to know.

Hang in there Mike.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: Tyk Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 01:01 AM
What did the emails say?

If you confront her, be ready for denials unless you have pretty solid proof, like explicit sexual emails, etc. Waywards will do anything to avoid getting caught.

If you don't have proof before you confront, you risk driving the A further underground, I did this and it ended up taking me several months to really prove what I already knew.

Get ready to hear things like: "oh it was nothing, we were just joking around" "ya it went a little to far but NOTHING happened" etc. Then brace yourself for the "I love you but not in love with you" and the "I need space" type of babble. If she goes down that road, you can pretty much be sure that she is actively engaged in an A.

DO NOT give away how you know what you know. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to not reveal that you know anything (unless you really DO know) and start up a relationship talk and see what she says.

Liars will eventually trip themselves up. I don't want to give you the impression that I think you should ignore your evidence or your instincts, but I do think you should be careful not to show your cards to quickly as doing so can make the truth harder to get to.

Sorry you are here, read up on Plan A and everything on this site about infidelity. Commit yourself to following these plans, and realize that the most important thing you can do is ACT with a purpose according to these plans. This is a very traumatizing event and it will be very difficult at times to NOT lose your cool, but the more you can control yourself and act with your mind instead of react with your heart, the better off you will be.

Posted By: LovingAnyway Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 01:20 AM
:::while waiting to hear back from Mike:::

{{{{{Tyk!}}}}}

LA
Posted By: kam6318 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 02:49 PM

Mike--

I can't top K's advice, but did want to stop by and say how very sorry I am to hear this. Will be thinking about you--

Kathi
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 03:45 PM

K, JL, et al,

Excellent advice.

However, I went with the "You f'in# wh$%^ get out of my house, and took the kids. She relented and left and the kids and I went back last night. Then she showed up this AM and wouldn't leave, so I packed and split. Maybe poor legal tactic, but I couldn't stay under the roof.

All three kids were cursing her out (14.14.17) She sat their dry eyed and said she was sorry.

Usual story I guess, she'd been distant, even though we were having sex twice a week. I noticed she would cut off the computer as soon as I entered the room. Put in a keyboard monitor.....almost puked, don't have to go beyond that.

It's a janitor at the school she works at. I talked to his wife and him....f&%*k...he's a nice guy :-(

However, he had lied to his wife to try and get back together, so I filled her in.

Anyway, confrontation with wife...I chased her down on the side of the road...had a spirited conversation...she denied...finally admitted. I called everyone in her life, pastor, sisters, cousins, mother.

Today we had a very unfortunate scene about "who are the kids coming with" brawl. All the kids wanted her out. She sat there like Buddha and wouldn't move. Finally I packed...Son came with me, but I told him to hang there at the house. I'm going to leave the state for awhile. Let her janitor BF keep up a 1.6 million home...

So, sorry for the program here, but I'm done, could never get the pictures out of my head, and besides a lot was said and she was pretty Icy. Alth I heard she melted down after I left...

So....legal advice? :-)

Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 03:57 PM
Mike,

I'm so sorry you've joined the BH club, but it is refreshing to see a decisive BH who won't be a doormat for his WW.

Although you were advised to move slowly ... I think you did EXACTLY the right thing. You confronted both your WW and OM. You exposed to everyone of importance, including your children, and you have chosen to move on with your life.

You seem to have the wherewithall to hire the best bulldog of an attorney in your area, so no need to seek out legal advice from a Marriage Building forum ... talk to your attorney and take his/her advice to protect yourself, your children and your assets.

Good Luck and Stay Strong!!!
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 04:05 PM

Well....I didn't want to lawyer up and get nasty.

I just called a guy who is a lawyer/mediator. He is calling her right now before she lawyers up, so hopefully we can be amicable.

Posted By: kam6318 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 04:14 PM
No legal advice here, not my strong point. So, I take it your plan is to head to divorce? Not trying to second-guess you (IMHO, reconciliation is not for everyone, for some people divorce is the best path), just wanting to be clear.

This really sucks...esp. after the efforts you had put in on improving things. Again, I'm sorry that it has come to this...

Kathi

Posted By: pomdbd3 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 04:16 PM
I've just gone through this process but there are things in your favor that I don't share with you.

First, you're strong. I was a doormat. You did exactly what I wish I had done.

Next, you have older kids. Teen kids will get their own say in the matter and I can tell you, having been an older kid that went through this with his parents, that it doesn't matter how she paints her affair, it was still a betrayal of their father and a destruction of their family.

They will likely side with you for many years because it's tough as an older kid to go through this and not be angry at the other parent for a loooooong time. It took my dad and I years to mend our relationship because of his cheating.

File for divorce on ground of adultery. This does create "fault" in no fault states and you will come away in a much better position than if she files for bs reasons like "irreconcilable differences".

I'd throw in mental cruelty into the equation since adultery is emotional rape.

Save hard copies of your evidence.

Don't look to crucify her.

I know you're angry. Any chance of reconciliation and forgiveness?

I know that the mental images are very painful, but they do subside with time.

How old are you?

The kids will be angry, but deep inside they want you guys to make up.

I'm just offering food for thought. All kids of divorce dream of their parents making up. The older ones have the mental capacity to acknowledge it isn't possible, but you and her are the people they love most in this world, so it's a natural desire to want to see the two people they love most be together.

Just chew on these things. I know you're angry. But set that aside for a minute to hear the voices of those that have walked the path before you.

Not telling you not to D. Just weigh your options and think of them carefully before reacting.
Posted By: K Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 04:39 PM
Hey Mike,

I've pretty much given up on these forums (****edit****), but came back because an old (stubborn) friend is in crisis.

Act in haste. Repent in leisure.

So, in the last 24 hours, you've decided your marriage is over and you need a lawyer. Does this sound like a deliberate, well-considered decision, or does it sound like an emotional response to a bad situation? Are you acting or reacting?

Your initial response is hardly novel, nor is it damning for your marriage. It's not like I didn't expect it either (:-)), but I was hoping you might keep a lid on it so that you could take some time to evaluate what you want and work a strategy to get it.

My advice is still the same. You need to calm down in this maelstorm that you find yourself in. You need to truly evaluate whether you want this marriage to continue---and it should probably be based on how you've felt about it for the last five years, how it affects your kids and your extended family, and what benefits you and your wife get out of it. Don't evaluate it on the last 24 hours or since the affair has started. You need to evaluate your ability to forgive---you've shown some great strength in this area in the past, even with all your lovable bluster. And you need to get some good help to start forming a plan and executing on it. For the help, I would call one of the Harleys. If you need me to recite the number for appointments, I believe that I still have in memorized.

I'm truly sorry that you find yourself in this situation, old friend. My best advice that I can give you is to slow down, and try to look inside of yourself to see what you can do with this situation. You shouldn't worry yourself too much about what her current reactions are---because this stuff is all typical. We've read it a 1000 times before, and many of us have lived it as well.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 04:41 PM

Hi Pom,

No chance of reconciliation.

I'm 46.

The kids hate her.

I got a lawyer/mediator, he just called her, she didn't mention mediation, just listened about going forward.

Posted By: catperson Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 05:00 PM
Two thoughts. She's talking about going forward cos there doesn't seem like any other choice, given that the whole thing has blown up and out within a couple days. No time for anyone to think. Please give your separation some time before you head into court; I don't think it's good for your kids to be railroading this the way you are.

Second, about your kids. They are MAD at her, but they don't hate her. Please don't put your own onus on their shoulders. For their sakes. If you take the reactionary route here and stay on Defcon 4, they will feel they have to, also, to stay in your good graces. Please slow down and let them digest this, probably the biggest upheaval in their whole lives. Let them see you act with dignity and thoughtfulness, so that they can see from you that the high road is always the best path, no matter how badly you hurt.

Talk to them without anger in your voice, do not voice your own disgust with your WW to them; they need to determine how they feel on their own, without your or her guidance, 'k?

Right now, they're desparate to figure out how they are supposed to feel. Please slow down, give them some time to react and feel, and show them how a level-headed, respectful person handles adversity, so that they can mimick your actions in their own adulthood.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 05:15 PM
Excellent advice. But I already went b@tsh!t, so that shot isn't on the table.

They hate her, or are mad at her or whatever, fine with me right now, as you can imagine.

I said a number of times to them when she was gone, don't worry, you'll be safe, we love you, etc.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
Excellent advice. But I already went b@tsh!t, so that shot isn't on the table.

They hate her, or are mad at her or whatever, fine with me right now, as you can imagine.

I said a number of times to them when she was gone, don't worry, you'll be safe, we love you, etc.

Question: Have you exposed the A to her superiors at the school? If not, I suggest that you don't, unless (1) the A still continues and (2) you want to continue your M.

Leaving the home probably wasn't a good idea. I suggest getting back there and fighting the battle from there. What you're doing now is not going to help you during the D proceedings, if things do proceed that far.

BTW - your reaction, while angry and over the top, might just be what's required to break that A-bubble your WW created around her.
Posted By: Runnerboy65 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 05:53 PM
Wow, I thought I was reading my on d-day story for a second there. The biggest difference was that I didn’t find out by checking emails, I found out when I walked in on them in the act. But, my reaction was similar to yours.

All I can add to this is just slow down and don’t make any final decisions until you have a chance to cool off and think this out. You have done a great job so far by exposing this thing to anyone who would listen. I don’t know if you’ve exposed to their employer, but if you haven’t do that immediately. I called my WW’s and OM’s employer before I went home after finding them and they were both fired the next day. She was mad as h&ll but it caused reality to rain down on the 2 lovebirds like softball sized hail. Within a week, she went from icy cold to begging for a 2nd chance.

Again, I commend you on what you’ve done so far. I am convinced it is those BS’s that take action and send an immediate message that “I am not going to take your crap and you can hit the door if you don’t like it” that have the best chance at recovery. Also remember that recovery sometimes means a better marriage and sometimes it means getting yourself out of a toxic situation and improving yourself for the future. You may be surprised at how her attitude will change when the pressure of your exposure, the contact from your lawyer, and the anger of your children finally hit home with her. Give it a few weeks before you make any final decisions.

By the way, my kids(19/16/13) were furious with their mother and said they hated her for several weeks after d-day. But, what you will find out is that they don't really hate her, they hate what she did. When the dust settles, kids of all ages want their parents to work things out. That may or may not be possible, but you won't really know until the dust of exposure and reality starts to settle. Your WW is probably in shock at the moment and really doesn't know what to do. If the marriage has been good for a lot of years and this is a 1 time thing, then you may be surprised at how your feelings will change in time. It's usually best not to make lifechanging decisions when your emotions are all over the board. Be patient with yourself and make sure you make the best decision for YOUR future and that of your children.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 06:11 PM
For a legal stand point you have weakened your case by moving out of the house. WW can claim abandonment. Which puts her in a better position to keep the house, get primary custody, CS, and alimony.

Move back in.
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 06:24 PM
It appears to me that you are getting some "canned" advice that really doesn't fit your situation.

Your children are nearly adults and can choose who they want to live with ... abandonment shouldn't be an issue in this case, so you haven't harmed yourself by distancing yourself from this train wreck.

Also, we hear here all the time that it is the BH's choice whether they WANT to recover the M or not, right up until the point when the BH actually chooses to exercise that option ... then everyone jumps in to say "slow down".

It's your life ... stick with your personal boundaries, whatever they may be.

I do have one question, since I wasn't around when you posted previously (I'm assuming years ago) ... what brought you to MB then? Is this a 2nd A by your WW?
Posted By: Greengables Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 06:27 PM
Hey, Mike. Sorry this has happened.

I agree with K and Cat. Slow down. If you don't want things to get nasty, take some time to calm down before talking to a lawyer or even a mediator. Your wife isn't going to be the most ameniable negotiator right now. Nothing like two agitated, angry people coming to the negoitating table.

Second, you need to fix the situation with the kids. You lost control in front of them, but that doesn't mean you can't go forward in control. Don't talk badly about her. Don't say how much she hurt you. They know she hurt you, but when you say it, their conflicting loyalties surge to the top. When some more time has lapsed, try to see the humor in your dramatic response, which I sense may have been out of character for you. If you can, enjoy the irony of her having an affair with the janitor. It's kind of like my dad having an affair with his secretary. It's so cliche. The only thing more cliche would have been the milkman. Oh, I forgot, they don't have milkmen any more.


Don't leave the state without getting legal advice. Plus, your kids need you around now. The one can drive, I assume. So they can have access to you whenever they want. Stick around. If you leave the state, I do think the case that you "abandonned" the family will be strengthened. Also, check about the age where the kids get to choose with whom they live. In my state, at age 13, the kids can state a preference, and the court will take it into consideration.
Posted By: Greengables Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 06:32 PM
I don't think anyone is telling MC2 not to get divorced if he wants to. We're just saying don't make any decisions when your body is pumped full of adrenolin.

When something traumatic like this happens, our bodies go into "Fight or Flight" mode. This is not the time when we think clearly or evaluate well. We react to an immediate threat as if it were a wooly mammoth bearing down. Only, that's not the situation. Just consider Mike's behavior in the last 48 hours or so. First, he went into full Fight mode. Then, he goes into Flight mode and thinks about leaving the state. Unless he lives in Rhode Island, that is running away. (Personally, I think running away has it's place, just not right now.)

Unfortunately, some people regret their decisions to divorce, throw their spouse out of the home, eviserate said spouse, telling everyone and the cow, make a powerpoint out of the emails, add music and post it on the internet for all to see, or make a YouTube video. But, then, it may be too late.
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 06:44 PM
Believe what you wish, but since I've been around here the BH's who have successfully recovered, either their marriage or personally, took DEFINITIVE action IMMEDIATELY.

The ones who "took it slow" wound up in months of limbo he11, while their WW's continued to humiliate them by rubbing their face in their continuing A.

I have a feeling, but would like to know whether this is Mike's first time as a BH or is this a repeat performance by his WW, since apparently he was an active MB poster some years ago.

If this IS his second go round, then I trust his judgment to go straight to Plan D.

IMHO, if he goes SLOW now, after the initial blow-up, he will have lost his tactical advantage and will find himself MUCH worse off in the long run.
Posted By: Greengables Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 06:51 PM
Interesting. I guess I side with Dr. Harley on this, and opt for not making any major decisions in the first week. But to each his own.
Posted By: Who_Dat Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 07:21 PM
Mike, I am so sorry... but you know the drill: "Listen to K" is the best advice anyone on this forum has ever received.

****edit****
Posted By: AGoodGuy Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 07:43 PM
OMG Mike, this is the one post I never expected to see... I am so sorry...

You were there for me when I had my D-day 8 years ago, so if I can give you any moral support, let me know. I'll give you my e-mail if you need it.

Other than that, I am just speechless... This completely sucks.

AGG
Posted By: catperson Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 08:00 PM
I think the only thing we're suggesting he slow down on is the divorce proceedings: costly, emotional, deadly to the kids. You've already done all the important stuff - expose. You can always divorce her next month. Just let your kids have a chance to breathe before you cut their lives in half cos you're so mad, and make sure this is really what you want, after you've let the emotions wane.
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by Who_Dat
****edit****

You are free to give/follow whatever advice you chose, but given the status of K's "recovery", which is a product of his definition of "MarriageBuilders" ... I'll stick with my own experiences and instincts.
Posted By: 2long Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by MyRevelation
You are free to give/follow whatever advice you chose, but given the status of K's "recovery",

About which I doubt you have a clue.

Quote
which is a product of his definition of "MarriageBuilders" ... I'll stick with my own experiences and instincts.

Some folks on here still do try 2 offer Marriage Building advice. Maybe someday if I can find copious amounts of free time, I'll look their posts up and point them out 2 you.

Reacting the way you advocate here is definitely not MB. Why is that? Well, if you think about these si2ations for a minute, you'll recognize that both the WS and BS have 2 face their issues at some point, either 2gether with some kind of recovery plan, or on their own, while they try 2 put themselves back 2gether after what they've been through.

There's no workaround. You have 2 face it and work through it.

Plan FU is like hitting the hard reset button when a piece of software isn't behaving 2 your satisfaction, rather than trying 2 find out first whether the problem can be corrected without trashing what you're working on at the time.

People who've been married a long time know what I mean. Plan FU without trying 2 fix things is like hitting the reset button when you haven't backed up your data. You end up starting over again with the very real possibility of having the same problem crop up again because you didn't learn anything the last time.

As for a WS humiliating the BS? Seems 2 me you're saying that's one of the primary justifications for a speedy and decisive reaction.

But nobody can be humiliated without their allowing it, particularly when they know that their own well-being isn't determined by the selfish and s2pid actions of others. Selfish and s2pid people embarrass themselves - but it can take them a few years 2 realize it.

OT: Just heard a coworker went 2 the emergency room...

-ol' 2long
Posted By: Greengables Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/07/08 11:48 PM
MR, have you heard something I haven't? Last I heard K was still happily married.
Posted By: jayne241 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 12:13 AM
**EDIT**

Please email the mod directly if you have questions or comments about a specific action.

Thank you, Revera
Posted By: 2long Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 12:26 AM
**EDIT**

Please email the mod directly if you have questions or comments about a specific action.

Thank you, Revera



OT: my coworker is under observation. At least it wasn't a heart attack.

-ol' 2long
Posted By: Who_Dat Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 02:52 AM
****edit****
Posted By: Dufresne Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 03:10 AM
Perhaps Mike would be more appreciative of advice than commentary on moderator edits.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 05:08 AM
Mike,

Ok! Here is my advice. Listen to K and others to slow down. Let me offer you the reasons why.

1. I think it is clear to the meagerest of minds, that your W KNOWS you are more than a little angry. Yes, even your W's mind right now.

2. I think it is clear that most of us have a clue how much work you put into the marriage.

3. You may change your mind as things cool down.

4. However, you may not.


Now look carefully at 3 & 4. Rushing can screw up #3. Rushing can screw up #4.

It is your call whether this marriage has a chance or not. But, if I were going for door #4, I would want it to be EXACTLY how I wanted it. The settlement, the dealing with the kids, support, everything I would fight tooth and nail to have it MY way. I am not saying ruin her. I am saying have it MY way.

You see I don't fight to "win", I fight to completely end the problem. To do this, you must be clear headed, you must evaluate, you must decide on what you want in your way, and you must decide PRECISELY how and when things are going to happen.

You are too emotional to do a good job of this. Calm down, think, let things settle out, and THEN ACT.

Leaving the state is bad. It is bad for your kids who now more than ever need your support. YOu may think they are old enough to handle things, but even teenagers know enough to be afraid of the unknown, and by leaving you are throwing them into the deepend of a very very deep emotional pool. Don't leave, move close by if you must. But, those kids of yours need you now more than they have ever needed their Dad.

You don't have to worry about your W knowing she messed up big time. I think she has that figured out if nothing else. You don't have to worry about her misreading your feelings on the matter, I think she has that figured out as well, or at least as well as you do.

What YOU have to do, is take care of those kids, right NOW! Get your A$$ back in the game and help them.

Am I making myself clear???

God Bless You and your family,

JL
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 12:17 PM
Update

First off all, what the h3ll happened to this place? I don't need to log on here to find 2 pages of intramural flames.

That aside, thanks to everybode who gave advice and sympathy, especially my old friends K, JL, Kam and AGG.

I'm at my sister's in another state. I was suppsed to comedown here anyway this wee, so whether that constitues abandonment or whatever.....ah, I don't give a fudge. I can't be around her.

My 17 year old son, god bless him, took the opportunity screw with Mommy by having a blow out party last night at our bonfire pit, 40 kids, underage drinking, four cop cars....in the middle of it some guy rolls his car on the raod in front (unrelated). He keeps calling me with laughing updates. Very uncharateristic, he is the perfect child, but I have to love him for acting out.

And I think the family got a taste of life without Daddy 6 hours after I was gone. I called my wife in the middle of it to say WTF and we has something of a civil exchange.

I'll check back in and finish
Posted By: penaltykill Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
Update

First off all, what the h3ll happened to this place? I don't need to log on here to find 2 pages of intramural flames.

That aside, thanks to everybode who gave advice and sympathy, especially my old friends K, JL, Kam and AGG.

I'm at my sister's in another state. I was suppsed to comedown here anyway this wee, so whether that constitues abandonment or whatever.....ah, I don't give a fudge. I can't be around her.

My 17 year old son, god bless him, took the opportunity screw with Mommy by having a blow out party last night at our bonfire pit, 40 kids, underage drinking, four cop cars....in the middle of it some guy rolls his car on the raod in front (unrelated). He keeps calling me with laughing updates. Very uncharateristic, he is the perfect child, but I have to love him for acting out.

And I think the family got a taste of life without Daddy 6 hours after I was gone. I called my wife in the middle of it to say WTF and we has something of a civil exchange.

I'll check back in and finish

First, you do have my sympathy for your wife's infidelity. That out of the way, there is so much wrong with the attitude that I am picking up from your last post that I hardly know where to begin.

First: "laughing updates"??? There was nothing funny about what your son did. This was his very bad choice, and the consequences could have been much, much worse. Actually, you might not have seen the last of the consequences. And why are you linking his actions to your wife's infidelity? Did you not raise him as well? I see you letting yourself off the hook, big time.

I understand children very well. Right now, your son is exploiting the situation between you and your wife. It sounds like you are giving him permission to do so. If you allow the family dynamic to become you and your kids against your wife, I predict more of this "acting out". And you won't find it so lovable.

PK

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 12:51 PM
Okay....so....I woke up this AM....thinking...something bad happened? What was it? Did someone die? Then I remembered....

I'm in the fantasy right now that I'm going to go home and she is going to crawl across the floor and we are going to be on our honeymoon again. I do have to go home I guess, now that I think abouyt it, before some sort of life without Daddy routine gets normalized.

Her sister called me and gave the opinion that we should stay together and move out of state, which is actually doable and would probably "work"

I could be open to reconciliation, but I can not be open to a year of watching her be lovesick and cold to me. To make the outreach and be rejected would almost be D-2....

Help me out....that is what it would be, right?

PS: backstory. No affairs, I came here...Jesus....1999? just to work on the marriage because she was sort of cold. I guess she has been withdrawn for a long time.

(sigh).....
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:04 PM
I will defer to JL's advice due to his experience and out of respect for how he helped us in our time of need.

I still feel that Mike's reactions have been appropriate in the big picture ... he may have fumbled a few of details, but "BEING WILLING" to walk away, along with his WW KNOWING he is willing to walk away will GREATLY improve and accelerate any potential reconciliation.
Posted By: Greengables Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:07 PM
Mike, you know the right thing to do. First go home. If you don't want to be in the house, exactly, stay next door or go to one of those executive suites. You can't assess the situation from far away, and you need to find out where she is in all this.

Plus, you need to consider if you're willing to do even more work to save this marriage. You were here when I first joined, and I'm assuming you made a lot of changes in your behavior to save your marriage. That's a long time to put in, only to find out your marriage wasn't affair-proof at all. It could be that to make her content in the marriage, you'd have to do stuff you don't want to do. I don't mean washing out the sink after you do the dishes. I mean turn yourself inside out. But, you don't know what's going on yet.

And, you may not know tomorrow either. By next week, you'll know more. Also, once your anger dies down a little, you can better sense how you feel about her aside from the infidelity. How happy have you been the last few years? If you've been telling yourself you're happy, if you've been working on seeing the good in her and your marriage, if you've been convincing yourself you don't need more affection or whatever, that would factor in to the decison too.

Oh, and you have to deal with your 17 year old. Throwing a party to punish mom isn't a wise idea. As a child of divorced parents, I can tell you to expect some playing the parents off each other, and some manipulation and double dipping. There have to be some perqs to having divorced parents after all. Just try to keep some control over the situation, whether you're there or not.
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Greengables
MR, have you heard something I haven't? Last I heard K was still happily married.

I guess we all have to define "happily" for ouselves. To my mind if I hadn't had SF with my wife for 10+ years, and in fact the last person to have SF with my wife would have been the OM, then "happily" would not be the descriptive term I would use for my M.
Posted By: Greengables Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:10 PM
I agree with the "being willing to walk away part." Actually, I think all spouses should always be willing to walk away if certain boundaries are crossed. This greatly enhances the marriage even when there hasn't been an affair. It creates the mindset "We're married because we both choose to be married, not because we need to be married."
Posted By: jayne241 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:15 PM
Hi Mike,

First of all, I apologize if my question added to the derailing of your thread. That was not my intention, I thought it was an ok question to ask. So I wasn't going to contribute further and was going to stay off your thread but now I have a second of all...

Second of all, I had the same alarm as pk on reading about your son's underage drinking party with four cop cars showing up, and him giving you "laughing updates." I second everything he said.

And third, your latest post indicates you having some second thoughts... very natural, very human, and precisely why folks were recommending that you slow down. It is a biological fact that your brain operates differently when flooded with adrenalin. Decisions made under those circumstances are not necessarily decisions you will agree with later.

IMHO no one is telling you that you can not proceed directly to Plan D. Just that you make that decision based on your own thoughts when not under severe emotional trauma/adrenalin/what have you.

You don't know me, I'm a newbie by comparison. But please listen to the wise K and JL.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:17 PM
I'm going to drive home so I'll be off the computer for 4 or 5 hours.

May I ask, without being obnoxious, that a few of you not post on here. I really need help from people like K and I don't want him insulted in my thread.
Posted By: ForeverHers Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:30 PM
Quote
Hi Mike,

I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I would suggest that you do nothing for now, if you can contain yourself. It's better to deal with this with a plan then to ad hoc it by reacting to your emotions. If you do need to expose/confront---I would suggest doing it only with your wife at first.

I'd be more comfortable giving you advice after hearing what's been going on for the last few years, where you're at, where you think you're wife's at, etc... And I'll close with the usual advice---it wouldn't hurt to get a session or two with one of the Harley's before you do anything.

Steve used to always tell me to not react during these situations. You need to stay calm, and not make any huge decisions. Act. Don't react.

I concur with K.

Per your request about who you would like to offer responses, opinions, and advice to you regarding your situation, why don't you ask K about me and if you think you'd like to hear from me I will continue to participate in discussing things with you.

Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
I'm going to drive home so I'll be off the computer for 4 or 5 hours.

May I ask, without being obnoxious, that a few of you not post on here. I really need help from people like K and I don't want him insulted in my thread.

Fair enough ... it's your thread.

Good Luck!!!
Posted By: penaltykill Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
I'm going to drive home so I'll be off the computer for 4 or 5 hours.

May I ask, without being obnoxious, that a few of you not post on here. I really need help from people like K and I don't want him insulted in my thread.

Mike c2, I have the greatest respect for K. I was going to let K and JL discuss the marriage aspects of your situation with you; I deliberately stayed away from that, as I felt that their guidance was sufficient.

Due to my background, I was confining myself to discussion of your children - or son, in this case. If you would prefer that I not post on your thread, that is fine.

PK

Posted By: Runnerboy65 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 01:50 PM
Mike,

I hope the time away has helped you calm down and gain some perspective. The best advice I have is to listen to people like K and JL. They have an incredible perspective and a way to put things into terms that all of us can understand.

As I posted earlier your situation is similar in many ways to mine. I felt exactly like you immediately post d-day. I did many of the same things and had many of the same feelings you are experiencing right now. I saw no hope for my marriage and really didn’t want to try to recover it. But, when I got past the initial anger my perspective changed.

The first thing you have to do is to make your mind up that you ARE going to recover from this. Recovery is something that is unique in all of our situations. For some, recovery is a marriage that is better than it was pre-affair. For others, recovery is a better person that moves on from the marriage prepared to engage in future relationships in a way that makes them better than the one you just left. Only you can determine what recovery will look like for you. Either way, your recovery journey can’t begin until you allow your anger to subside and allow yourself to make calm rational decisions.

If you do decide to try and save your marriage, I promise you that plan A really does work. In my limited experience, it seems that the biggest problem people have with plan A is that they only do part of it and expect results. For me, plan A wasn’t just about meeting my WW’s ENs it was also about establishing firm boundaries, complete exposure to anyone who could possibly put pressure on her affair, and refusing to allow her to shift the blame for her affair to me. Every time that she tried to shift any blame to me, I reminded her firmly that while I accepted my share of the blame for the condition of our marriage that I would absolutely never accept any of the blame for her bad choices. I firmly believe that the total exposure and firm boundaries are what cut through the fog enough for WS’s to notice and appreciate your efforts to meet their ENs.

Finally, no matter what has happened and how angry your kids are, YOU can’t allow them to disrespect their mother. I know that’s hard because I had to leave the room a couple of times to keep from laughing when my children were giving there mother h&ll. But, I quickly realized that by allowing this to continue that it was not hurting my WW as much as it was hurting my children. It may not be fair, but while your WW is still in the fog of her affair, the responsibility falls on YOU to do what’s in the best interest of your children.
Posted By: penaltykill Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Runnerboy65
Finally, no matter what has happened and how angry your kids are, YOU can’t allow them to disrespect their mother. I know that’s hard because I had to leave the room a couple of times to keep from laughing when my children were giving there mother h&ll. But, I quickly realized that by allowing this to continue that it was not hurting my WW as much as it was hurting my children.

Spot-on.

Let me add that Runnerboy's actions in the face of his wife's adultery continue to define grace under pressure, IMHO. I think that Mike would do very well to listen to him, even if he ultimately chooses to go a different route.

PK
Posted By: K Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 02:22 PM
Hi Mike,

Quote
First off all, what the h3ll happened to this place? I don't need to log on here to find 2 pages of intramural flames.

Yeah, isn't that the truth! Careful tho---those words could be considered defamatory. smile

Again---I'm so sorry for what you're going through. You've been getting some good advice:

1. Slow down.

2. Act, don't react (you are so emotional right now, and that rollercoaster is in full force).

3. Try to get control of the kids---my main issue with massive exposure is that they now have to recover from this too---and you're going to find it difficult to help them until you're through the process too.

4. Formulate a plan and start to execute---and do it with someone who cares about your marriage. Not just you. Not just your wife. But the whole family. I have no problem with you ending up deciding that you've put a ton of work into your marriage, and you just will not be able to forgive this transgression. But you probably won't know that for certainty for at least another 6 months. So in the intervening time, it's best to try to move forward with a plan that allows you to recover. I see you already trying to do this (moving out of state is an excellent possibility).

5. Your wife is an addict. She's been exposed as such. She will go through a very predictable pattern---and not all of it is fun to be involved with. Harley would recommend that if she's willing to try (and you too), that the two of you go away for as long as possible on a trip where you SOLELY have to meet each other needs (camping in Death Valley would be lovely, if you bring water).

6. **edit**.

7. If you need email, I'll be happy to give it to you.

Best,

K

(and FH is OK... wink )
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
I'm going to drive home so I'll be off the computer for 4 or 5 hours.

Hey Mike - my sincere condolences for your loss - and that's exactly what it is - a loss of so many things.

When you are ready, try reading Starfish's post about the "good taker".

here it is:

The Giver is the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make the other person happy and avoid anything that makes the other person unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. It's the part of you that wants to make a difference in the lives of others, and it grows out of a basic instinct that we all share, a deep reservoir of love and concern for those around us.

But the Giver is only half of the story. The other half is the Taker. It's the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. It's the part of you that wants the most out of life, and it grows out of your basic instinct for self-preservation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The giver is all about love and concern and the taker is our selfish side...so how can the giver be bad, or the taker be good?

Everybody recognizes the "good" in the giver and how giving can enhance relationships, but here's how a "bad" giver can ruin your marriage if all your marital choices are made solely selflessly:

*your giver is not honest....he won't tell your spouse what you need because he more concerned about your spouse feels, whether your spouse gets his needs met, than protecting your interests or your feelings. If your spouse asks the giver if it's okay to do something....even something you don't want to do...the giver says okay.

*your giver is the one who creates resentment...all that dishonesty cloaked in care....leads to misunderstandings, mixed signals, missed opportunities. The giver thinks...my spouse should KNOW what I need....just like I know what he needs.

*your giver is your martyr....endless giving creates the ever suffering spouse. Givers are praised for their selflessness, but they become very unhappy until all that's left is to somehow enjoy the pain....and get what secondary gain that offers.

*givers avoid risk and change...no rocking the boat...who knows what could happen? Nope, givers like safety....even when that involves enduring discomfort.

*givers believe in unconditional love...because they don't ask for conditions. They just give.

*givers handle your tender emotions...fear, sadness, care, consideration. They also tend to be weepy and needy.

We all know how "bad" the taker can be....afterall he's the guy who makes selfish demands, angry outbursts and most of our other LBs. But how can the taker be "good"?

*your taker is the guy you need at the negotiation table....because your giver will NOT create harmony, fairness, honesty in the dealings. Without your taker, your giver will create an environment of sacrifice....leading to resentment, anger and loss of love.

*your taker is honest about what you need and gives your spouse the information to CHOOSE to show you he loves you in the way that you would like it. He doesn't require mind reading...he lays it on the table.

*your taker fights for what you need and doesn't let you sit home three weekends in a row...he makes sure you're part of the fun.

*your taker is not an enabler or codependent.

*your taker saves your marriage as often as your giver does by making sure that reciprocity exists.

*your taker is willing to take risks and make changes.


As an example, I'd like to put forward my own marriage and how my giver undermined the happiness in my marriage for years. I NEVER went into negotiations with my taker....so I never even got close to getting what I wanted. I always put my husband first. But I wasn't happy. I didn't like it.....and I BLAMED HIM for not giving me what I wanted even though I wasn't honest and he didn't know how to please me. There is no negotiation without the taker...the giver just says "fine", do what you want. I lived with resentment every time he did what he wanted. I punished him for it too. And I was not someone who he would want to spend time with in the future either because I was pretty much angry all the time.

Letting my taker out saved my marriage. Oh to be sure, I couldn't let my taker rant and rage....but once he wasn't in chains all the time, he was far less volatile. My taker is the one who found out that my husband was actually willing and pretty enthusiastice about negotiation. Instead of the old pattern...H wants to do something...I say yes...then treat him badly. The new pattern goes like this....H wants to do something, I tell him how I might feel enthusiastic about that...we come to an agreement about how we can both get what we need....and I treat him well...and we both have fun! He gets to enjoy his activities without guilt. I know that I won't be neglected because we have also made plans together.



In my opinion, how the BS reacts to the sudden shock of discovering their beloved spouse has been intimate with OP often reflects the status of their giver/taker account.

My guess would be that you have been the giver A LOT in your marriage.
The rage and indignation is your taker protecting you. Your taker loves you - and will sacrifice the happiness and well being of others, in order to protect your feelings from more hurt/damage.

What I want you to know is that you are about to embark on a journey with your TAKER sitting in the middle of your chest barking orders at you. Orders like:

"get out"
"you're in danger"
"take what is yours"
"protect everything that you can"
"you've been robbed"
"you don't deserve this"
"there is a thief in your house, throw the thief out and bolt the door"

.... and guess what .... every single thing your TAKER is telling you .... is true !

And later (when? I don't know) your giver will begin to have a voice once more.

Remember - giver/taker are driving our emotions - not our intellect.

ALL adultery is born of the taker.
ALL recovery is a mixture of both giver/taker.

And, we are all individual in how this mix is expressed.

Personally, I think it is appropriate for you to be taker-ruled right after D day. I think it is cruel for people to express expectations that you ought to react otherwise. I think betrayed spouses who do NOT react to this robbery with their taker's howling rage are likely people who employ victim-status (which is a technique of manipulation in a marriage). I don't think there is a chance for full recovery after infidelity if the victims don't express their rage at their victimhood.

..... for a period of time .... and then it must stop.

This goes for your son as well, for he is a victim as well. His expression of rage at his age, could very well land him in court - so you must still parent him through this mess, although you did not create this cesspool yourself.

Again, "not fair", but there it is.

I hope you can read Star's post a few times - now and again in a few weeks .... I think understanding your taker's role in recovery is most beneficial. It's not all about "giver" during recovery - that is fool's gold.

Take care - try not to get an illness from the stress.

Pep
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
PS: backstory. No affairs, I came here...Jesus....1999? just to work on the marriage because she was sort of cold. I guess she has been withdrawn for a long time.

(sigh).....

this has me concerned

"cold"
and
"withdrawn"
and
"for a long time"

Are we talking about emotional distance from you for around 10 years?

If that is true - I'd question this ---> "No affairs".

Sorry - just me being me.

Pep


Posted By: kam6318 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 02:56 PM
Hi Mike--

Just popping in or a minute to see what's up on your thread. Glad to see you are thinking through all your options; as K says, I've no problem if you decide that you don't wish to recover and this is it. But, whatever you decide, it's best to do so with a combination of heart and mind, not just gut reaction.

Pep's re-posting of Star's wonderful Taker and Giver piece is a good thing to keep in mind...I think people who choose recovery often tend to go too far one way or the other, not realizing that the combination is what is needed.

Didn't you do some coaching with Steve before? I seem to recall that...anyway, I think working thru this with a coach would be very helpful. And, calling a coach does not commit you to one path or the other...it's still your choice.

About your kids...yikes! I won't tell you the warnings and horror stories that come to mind. Instead, I'll mention my older brother and his ex, and their son. Despite a divorce which left an awful taste in my brother's mouth, they worked together respectfully in parenting their son, kept up a "united front" when it came to ground rules and such. It was really cool to watch, and their son, now grown, benefited greatly by it. I hope that even if your marriage does not make it, your kids will still have the parenting they need from both of you to thrive.

Hang in there. You are at a really awful point right now, but remember that you won't always be there.

Kathi
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
I could be open to reconciliation, but I can not be open to a year of watching her be lovesick and cold to me. To make the outreach and be rejected would almost be D-2....

Help me out....that is what it would be, right?

When you arrive home - be watchful.
If you cannot tolerate watching her withdraw from her addiction and mooning over OM and feeling her "loss" of her "soulmate" - ask HER to leave.

Know your limits.
I would not tolerate more than a few days of this - that is me knowing my limits.
I respect myself and my marriage too much to be in an emotional threesome.

Your milage may vary.
Be aware you have accepted coldness for quite awhile - and if your expectations are that your wife will suddenly warm up to you - I believe you will be hurt once more.

If you are NOT like me, and if you CAN stomach being around her during her "loss" - keep an eye on your love bank - because it will be drained so fast you won't have much left.

Pep
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
PS: backstory. No affairs, I came here...Jesus....1999? just to work on the marriage because she was sort of cold. I guess she has been withdrawn for a long time.

(sigh).....

this has me concerned

"cold"
and
"withdrawn"
and
"for a long time"

Are we talking about emotional distance from you for around 10 years?

If that is true - I'd question this ---> "No affairs".

Sorry - just me being me.

Pep


This concerned me as well and considering your desire/need for a near immediate recovery I was thinking that, one of your demands/boundaries for even considering recovery may include a required lie detector test. This janitor may be one in a long or short line of OM's you need to discover the truth about.

I hope not, but it would explain her "coldness" all these years and the lie detector test requirement may be just what gets the FULL truth out of her (without having to actually take the test). Plus it allows you to prode for answers about the past without asking them directly and being met with the wall of denial. No recovery is possible without honesty.

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: 2long Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
this has me concerned

"cold"
and
"withdrawn"
and
"for a long time"

Are we talking about emotional distance from you for around 10 years?

If that is true - I'd question this ---> "No affairs".

Me 2.

This sounds more similar 2 my own sitch upon d-day 6.5 years ago. And it 2k me a few days 2 get the "whole truth" about the na2re and duration of the A out of my W. And it had been going on, off and on, for 11 years by that time.

-ol' 2long
Posted By: AGoodGuy Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 05:10 PM
Mike, I do recall that when we were here 8 years ago, and Mrs. C2 was in withdrawal, the question came up of whether she was having an affair, and you concluded that it was not "in her"... Given the latest, do you think there was something going on back then?

Having said that, what was the nature of this affair with the janitor (yikes!)? Was there an emotional attachment, a one-night-stand, longterm, etc? I think that depending on the nature of the affair, and her current "remorse" status, your actions/plan may be different, right?

Anyway, this whole thing seems like a nightmare to me, I just can't believe that my 'ol bud Mike is going through this. I'm really sorry man...

AGG
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 05:43 PM
Mike,

I think you have had a lot of good advice. I do want to reemphasize that you need to be there for the kids. They need your guidance, your strength, and your wisdom NOW. Having a kegger underage is NOT good.

What would have happened if one of the kids at the party ended up driving drunk and got injured or worse? It would be on your son's conscience for the rest of his life, not to mention a possible police record.

Take good care of those kids.

I await more information from you, but knowing why you came here, and now finding out what your W has been up to lately, makes one want to revisit the past.

Now this may sound odd to you, actually it sounds odd to me and I am thinking it. IF you W did not have an affair/affairs in the past and was/has been withdrawn from you, that would bother me more than an affair. I can understand an affair, having been here a long time, I know these things can be overcome. But,someone that has no feelings, does not respond to a spouses effort to improve the marriage and then has an affair, would concern me more deeply. Something else is in the mix and that something may be so intrinsic to her nature that nothing can make it better.

All of this is idle speculation at this point. Take your time, but go to those kids of yours and be in their life. 17 year old needs grounding for his choice of actions. We all have options when responding to things. Some have affairs, others work on the marriage, and on it goes. Your 17 year old needs to understand that a kegger (if in fact alcohol was there, I don't recall right now)is NOT an otpion for coping.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: ForeverHers Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 06:30 PM
Quote
Anyway, confrontation with wife...I chased her down on the side of the road...had a spirited conversation...she denied...finally admitted. I called everyone in her life, pastor, sisters, cousins, mother.

Okay Mike, we all understand the feelings you are drowning in right now. For me, it's the old "been there, felt that, done that" sort of understanding.

Let me ask you about one small part of this post, as it may give me some direction in responses to you.

You mentioned "pastor" as one of the people in her life.

Can you tell me what role her pastor plays in her life?

Is a faith in Christ a part of her life, your life? Just how does faith impact the two of you and your attitudes toward sin and forgiveness?

You will be getting a lot of advice about the "MB way" of doing things, but I want to spend a little time on the spiritual side of what you are going through, IF you think that would be appropriate.

God bless.

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 06:56 PM
God, I just had the all-time classic D-2 talk I've seen here a million times.

1. Always felt our lifestyles are different, wanted a simple life, not my upscale social life.

2. Went and saw OM this AM, he told her he is reconciling with his wife and they can't see each other anymore.

3. She is sad about it -- clearly would go with him. Has feelings, in a "perfect world would be together."

4. To JL (I think it was) Yes, she is very spiritual, works at the church as a volunteer, runs the food bank, etc.

5. She has been withdrawn fo9r many years, but it is hard to read because that is sort of her nature, very quiet. We still were having regular sex and she initiated it at times.

6. Says the affair sparked 4 months ago after a friendship. Claimed 3 times physical. That is what the OM said too and I bluffed him out of it by saying she told me 20. He settled on 10.

7. They work together....as we know that has to change, but since she has no interest in saving the marriage, she doesn't care what I say I guess.

8. Made one little comment about liking being alone, "but maybe that is not possible". So, gee, that's encouraging. :-(

So, she is in love with this guy "has feelings" her heart is broken that he is reconciling with his wife, she never felt we were a match, not a word of encouragement for the future, seemed a little bummed I was back.

That was fun !!!
Posted By: catperson Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 07:12 PM
Did you expose to her/their boss? They may say it's off, but it's always possible they won't be able to stay away from each other.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 08:20 PM

I just talked to the OM for almost an hour.

His wife is adamant no contact, they can't work together, so my wife says she is quitting her part time job.

He gave her the "no contact" call this AM (she called him)

I told him I had a computer log that would make his wife leave him forever (bluff), I was a computer expert, and if I saw a text or an email or a cell phone record or smoke signal I was going to nuke his marriage.

Effective, since he started bawling his eyes out.

Also said they were together 6 or 7 times and quit in June. Both of them had initially said 3 times, so it could be a cover story, but who cares, I guess.

Posted By: Greengables Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 08:27 PM
Wow. Sorry, Mike. It is tough. All I can say is your wife must be in the fog or she's never lived "the simple life." I grew up fairly priviliged, and now am solidly middle class. It's takes a while to realize that you have to change your lifestyle.

So, how do you assess the health of the marriage based on the previous 5 or so years? How happy have you been?

One knee-jerk reaction is to divorce the witch. Another knee-jerk reaction is to fight for what's yours, whether you want it or not.

Avoid the knee-jerk reactions.

You will survive this. I believe either way, your life will be better after you get through this mess. It doesn't happen instantly, but it does happen. From what I remember, you're a pro-active, positive, man. In the end, I think you'll triumph.

Editted to add: I know I wasn't listed on the approved poster list, so just let me know if you don't want me to post.
Posted By: ForeverHers Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 09:00 PM
Okay Mike, you have effectively exposed and nuked the affair and ended it. It is over...at least with THAT particular OM.

The responses from your wife are what I would have "expected" and "predicted" from a WS who ended the affair because it was exposed and the OP chose to "show the true colors" and stopped "using" your wife for "his needs." It was no longer "convenient."

Been there, Mike.

Now the question, and the "ball," remains in your court...hidden under the pile up of emotions and thoughts banging off of every corner of your mind....

Do you want to remain married to your wife if it is possible to overcome this monumental problem and rebuild and recover your marriage, making it something "better" than it was? Is it too early to answer that question? If it is too early, JL's earlier advice to make NO permanent decisions at this time would apply.

I also asked about your faith and you didn't give a direct answer, talking only about your wife's involvement in "church related activities." So let me be more direct before posting anything along the lines of "faith based advice."

Are you, and is your wife, a believer in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

If not, I do not wish to present any advice based upon Scripture.

If yes, then obviously what God has to say about all of this IS important, as well as the MB "to do" lists of things.

God bless.
Posted By: Aphelion Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 09:37 PM
Mike,

I remember you from when I first lurked around MB years ago. So I searched some of your old posts. You were pretty good, actually. Which makes me think this is where some of your initial fight and flight reaction came from. For example:

Originally Posted by Mike C2
Hey all, Before I disappear again....

MB was the greatest thing that ever happened to my marriage. I have turned many friends onto the site and MB.

That said...I think my marital recovery would have been quicker without 500 posts a month or whatever on this site. God bless the people that work in Emergency Rooms, but in retrospect, the constant pain here and my attempt to counsel hampered my recovery.

Absolutely no disrespect to the vets that fill that incredible role here....mant people thrive At Emergency room duty. Just an observation that not everyone is cut out for ER service! And it has its price...
You were hornswaggled as well as betrayed… Made to look the fool, even on MB.

Anyway, your wife reminds me of mine. Remote, not so much cold and indifferent as just usually more or less elsewhere.

Is FS one of your wife’s top ENs too? I have found meeting this particular EN, even in the extreme as you and I have done, does not prevent adultery in the least. It’s like maybe it is not really a true EN. Marrying for the money maybe.

I wanted to second the thoughts of some here that perhaps you need to prepare yourself to discover the past 10 years are not what you thought they were. This happened to me. Those 10 years of distance were a low intensity VLTA.

Re something else JL said:

> “I think you have had a lot of good advice. I do want to reemphasize that you need to be there for the kids. They need your guidance, your strength, and your wisdom NOW. Having a kegger underage is NOT good.

What would have happened if one of the kids at the party ended up driving drunk and got injured or worse? It would be on your son's conscience for the rest of his life, not to mention a possible police record.”

You as in you personally, could be sued directly.

And what comes after beer with teens?

Your children really need you now. They may not want or need her right now, but they sure need you.

My wife left for almost six months after D-Day 2 of the VLTA and DS acted out quite a bit too. Then he went into a melancholy/situational depression from which he is only now coming out of. And he still does not trust his mother much. They have no true relationship.

> “But, someone that has no feelings, does not respond to a spouses effort to improve the marriage and then has an affair, would concern me more deeply. Something else is in the mix and that something may be so intrinsic to her nature that nothing can make it better.”

I think the same. Well, since I have lived it I probably would. She is not going to change any time soon, probably not ever, methinks. So be prepared.

Originally Posted by Mike_C2
I just talked to the OM for almost an hour.

His wife is adamant no contact, they can't work together, so my wife says she is quitting her part time job.

He gave her the "no contact" call this AM (she called him)

I told him I had a computer log that would make his wife leave him forever (bluff), I was a computer expert, and if I saw a text or an email or a cell phone record or smoke signal I was going to nuke his marriage.

Effective, since he started bawling his eyes out.

Also said they were together 6 or 7 times and quit in June. Both of them had initially said 3 times, so it could be a cover story, but who cares, I guess.

I can’t help but chuckle at this. I heard the same things. OM almost crapped his pants and begged when I confronted him – and I was not bluffing in the least with anything I had or would do.

I’m sure you realize the half dozen times number is pure unadulterated adultery. They are saying whatever they think you will believe. They will continue to do so, for sure.

BTW, I recommend a hardcopy NC letter. With a registered copy to OM’s BW. Makes it much more tangible and real for all three of them. And you can keep a copy for later if you need it.


I will pray for you and your family,

PS: I applaud your massive exposure and for confronting OM. Less is not always more.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 10:23 PM

Let's see.....I'm at the office now, she calls and says "I'm making a big family dinner"

WTF? (What the fog?)

I'm like, "Thanks, but I'll be taking care of my own meals" then I called my son and he blew right by her to come down here for sinner.

Now....I know that is anti-Plan A. But after her little D-2 speech today I don't have it in me. I've been civil and even somewhat friendly at home today, but I also don't want to fall into some sort of "everything is fine except Daddy is sleeping upstairs and Mommy is sleeping downstairs" BS.

My chair can be empty at these family dinners for awhile...
Posted By: Aphelion Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/08/08 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
Let's see.....I'm at the office now, she calls and says "I'm making a big family dinner"
WTF? (What the fog?)
I'm like, "Thanks, but I'll be taking care of my own meals" then I called my son and he blew right by her to come down here for sinner.
LOL, Freudian, for sure.

Originally Posted by Mike_C2
Now....I know that is anti-Plan A. But after her little D-2 speech today I don't have it in me. I've been civil and even somewhat friendly at home today, but I also don't want to fall into some sort of "everything is fine except Daddy is sleeping upstairs and Mommy is sleeping downstairs" BS.
My chair can be empty at these family dinners for awhile...
Do you need to start a Plan B letter already? Do you know if you care yet?

Don't cut off your nose to spite her face.

With prayers,


Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 12:17 AM

Plan B?

Well, as best I can tell the affair is over. I talked to the OM for a long time and he wants nothing to do with it and I know his wife is very serious about it and will be watching him like a hawk. My wife is quitting the school where they work.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 12:25 AM
Mikey

It's OK for you to delay a decision right now.

You will probably change your mind more than a dozen times in the coming months.

Do you go to a gym?

Working out is a great way to offset the stress - take your son out with you and go punch some bags at a gym - together.

Pep

Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 12:32 AM
I got a bag at home I'd like to punch. Right in the teeth.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 01:09 AM
Mike,

A correction is needed here. You said
Quote
WTF? (What the fog?)

Nope, that would be "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot". Your at war my friend. smile

It seems to me ,given her talk, perhaps it would be best if SHE left for awhile, and you stayed in the house with the kids. Afterall, the life style you are providing doesn't suit her. Let her leave and select accomodations that please her more.


You are not in plan A for a simple reason. You haven't decided if you want to remain married. Right now the jist of what you are saying is that you don't. That's cool. But, as many have said you will probably yo-yo a fair amount on that one.

It is really HER chair that should be empty for dinner. It is really you and the kids that should be together.

I know most of what she said is typical fog, and most if not all of it will clear in time. But, you have not answered the questions.

Were you happy in this marriage before this affair?

Do you have it in you to fight for your marriage again?

Here is one you cannot answer: Is she willing to fight for the marriage?

You will receive the answers to these questions as time goes on.

Have you gone to see a lawyer yet? What are the laws in your state?

I think you should continue to be civil, but resolute in seeking out what is best for you. Divorce is NOT best for the kids, but living with a parent they don't respect is no bowl of cherries either.

Hang in the Mike.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I have a sister that doesn't believe in spanking. So she would punish her children with a "timeout" and make them sit somewhere for a period of time (hour or so). But, to make sure they did this, she sat near them. Which always seemed to me like she was punishing herself and not so much the kids. She explained that sitting there was not much of a punishment because she read. And she made sure the kids read. The kids loved to read.

Are you seeing where I might have thought she missed the point of punishment?? :RollieEyes:

Not eating dinner punishes who? Make sure you endeavors to show her your disapproval don't punish yourself. The word is out. All agree including your kids that she is wrong very wrong. All realize that you are deeply hurt, so there is no need for actions that reinforce this. If the sight of her turns your stomach, then don't eat with her. If you are hungry, and there is food on YOUR TABLE PAID FOR BY YOU, then I would say eat it...Right after your taster OK's it. laugh

Think about it.
Posted By: Aphelion Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 01:14 AM
As in your love for your wife is dissipating very fast. Do you want to protect what little is left.

Especially with the things she is saying to you now. Not that they all don't say that stuff more or less. But yours, like, mine, was this way for so long they have become who they really are. Takes a klieg light to help them see anything about the future.

I bet you a donut she will try to contact him soon. Be prepared. I keep saying that, don’t I.

With prayers,
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 02:44 AM
Dude, thanks for the great post. Gives me something to chew on between crying jags.

Originally Posted by Just Learning
Mike,

Quote
It seems to me ,given her talk, perhaps it would be best if SHE left for awhile, and you stayed in the house with the kids. Afterall, the life style you are providing doesn't suit her. Let her leave and select accomodations that please her more.

Tell me how to accomplish that. The entire household jumped her yesterday. Short of assaul she would leave. Now she has her daughters back, 24 hours later, and it all reaks of normalcy.

You are not in plan A for a simple reason. You haven't decided if you want to remain married. Right now the jist of what you are saying is that you don't. That's cool. But, as many have said you will probably yo-yo a fair amount on that one.

Plan A would be assault right now.

Remind me here....she just broke off contact with OM this AM. Isn't she going to be in withdrawal for a while and basically be left alone? Didn't I read three weeks or something?

Quote
It is really HER chair that should be empty for dinner. It is really you and the kids that should be together.

Again, if there is a way to do it, throw me ideas. She sat there glued to the couch while the entire family, including her 14 year old daughters, screamed at her. She got there an hour before the locksmith.

Quote
Were you happy in this marriage before this affair?

Well....I'd say yes, but after 20 years your standards fog. My top ENs are SF and AS, and she is a fox and had no problem with SF (maybe not the wildest lover, but hey, gorgeous body 5'"6, 108, model, looks 32-33 at 45). Unbelievable housewife and mother, never sat down all day. No conflict, no real arguments....and, I guess, no passion, no deep emotional ties...

So, yes, I was in love, even with the missing elements.

Quote
Do you have it in you to fight for your marriage again?

Dude, it's been 48 hours. I don't have it in me to keep lunch down.

Quote
Here is one you cannot answer: Is she willing to fight for the marriage?

I don't think so.

Quote
Have you gone to see a lawyer yet? What are the laws in your state?

It's a no fault state. Aside from that, not sure about specifics.

Quote
Are you seeing where I might have thought she missed the point of punishment?? :RollieEyes:

YES! My son and I are snarling because she has paid no price, right back, Monday housewife, Tuesday adultress, Thursday housewife. The daughter's forgive and forget and its back to compuuters and TV. I don't think my son will ever even treat her civilly.

What do you suggest?? I outed her big time and the whole family went nuts. she is just very resolute. "I'm sorry, I haven't been happy for years, it went too far" said in a dry eyed monotone....

Quote
Not eating dinner punishes who? Make sure you endeavors to show her your disapproval don't punish yourself. The word is out. All agree including your kids that she is wrong very wrong. All realize that you are deeply hurt, so there is no need for actions that reinforce this. If the sight of her turns your stomach, then don't eat with her. If you are hungry, and there is food on YOUR TABLE PAID FOR BY YOU, then I would say eat it...Right after your taster OK's it. laugh

Well, this is a weird one. She gives love through acts of service (isn't that the Harley term?). Between that and her desire to return to normalcy, a "family dinner" makes sense. So not showing up is definitely a snub and a punishment.

About an hour ago she came to me and almost pleaded to have the family dinner tomorrow night. I told her I'm not ready for that and I'll handle my own meals. She continued to plead -- family, family, family...That's how important it is to her.

That said, should I being doing it "for the kids?" Obviously their world was rocked.

Hey, it occurs to me, JL, what have we know each other....nine years? That long?

What really caught my attention here in your post is getting her out of the house, and "punishment".

What are your thoughts, short of assault? Like I said, I had the locksmith scheduled and she slipped in an hour early.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 02:59 AM


One minor bit of punishment.....when WW went down to bed just now, I took my daughters and had them sleep on the floor in my bedroom, which we all did the night of DD.
Posted By: catperson Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 03:16 AM
You should give yourself as much time as you need. You can spend a lot of other time with the kids to reinforce 'family' when she's not around.

Are you saying the girls are ok now? That they've moved on and are back to normal activities? That's scary to me. One because they can't possibly be ok yet, which means they're internalizing it - bad thing to do. And two because if they're telling themselves it's not that big a deal, in order to be ok with their mom, it seems like it might be reinforcing to them that it's ok to have affairs, so they might follow in her footsteps when they grow up. Just something to consider.
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 03:47 AM

My daughters are like the queens of internalization. And you are right, they are seeing no punishment or repercussions whatsoever for my wife.

My son says if she doesn't get out for a week I should tell her I'm filing for custody of the kids based on adultery and her bringing the guy around.

Rather than change the locks, I'm thinking of swiping her housekey, waiting until she goes out, and putting her luggage outside.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 07:58 AM
Mike,

I don't think you should punish her at all. That does not mean I don't think she should pay a price. I just don't know what it should be, do you???

I asked
Quote
Do you have it in you to fight for your marriage again?

You answered
Quote
Dude, it's been 48 hours. I don't have it in me to keep lunch down.

That is the point isn't it? It has only been 48 hours. How the heck do you know if you have the strength yet. Given what you mentioned you found out on your newest post, I am sure you have less strength now.

You asked how to get her out of the house, I would suggest asking her to leave for awhile which is in fact what you have done.

I would definitely caution you to keep your son out of the middle of it. I know he is 17, and at such an age there is very little he doesn't know. wink But, he doesn't know what you know, nor has he learned what you have over the years. I also appreciate he is very angry. Is there someone outside of the family he can talk to? He really needs this stuff handled before school starts. It is really bad if he goes through life hating his mother. Kids need both of their parents for different reasons.

I suspect your girls are horrified, but naturally gravitate toward your W. At their age they will not appreciate what she has done, nor understand the depth of your pain. With any luck neither of them will ever have to live through this.

You also said and asked
Quote
About an hour ago she came to me and almost pleaded to have the family dinner tomorrow night. I told her I'm not ready for that and I'll handle my own meals. She continued to plead -- family, family, family...That's how important it is to her.

That said, should I being doing it "for the kids?" Obviously their world was rocked.

Hey, it occurs to me, JL, what have we know each other....nine years? That long?
Yup, it has been awhile Mike. smile

You are worrying about punishing her, but you are beating a dead horse really. Her feelings are focused on herself and her "love" frown of OM. You are wasting your time. However, what she doesn't realize is that she has damaged the family very deeply whether you stay or go. I know it seems odd for me to be preaching to get your son to counseling or something so that he can have a relationship with his mother, when clearly she never worried about the repercussions of what she did. But, this is about your son not her.

I am not one for shows other none productive approaches. However, if you cannot eat with her, then don't. You need to be there for the kids to talk to. You need to be there to help them through this. You don't have to be there for dinner.

Do you get my meaning???

Is there someone there that you can talk to about all of this? Your pastor, a good counselor, perhaps the Harley's? This is tough stuff Mike, and it is better to go through it with real live people if you can.

Hang in there. I suspect things will become clear. Focus on the kids, getting them help, and focus on the things your can control: your actions, how you treat the kids, your job, and listening to the folks around you. I think now would be a good time to listen to the people you have exposed to and get their take on it. Their advice may be all over the map, but as you listen, as your W does whatever it is she does, you will gradually gather the information you need to make a decision.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 09:30 AM
Thanks, JL,

Mr son is already talking with our pastor, it was his initiative, too. He is an incredibly mature and wise kid, and also very conservative and Christian. He will not forgive his mother easily or soon. But I am certainly not ready to be an agent in that process, although I have given lip service to it with all the kids.

The pastor, by the way, is very, very close to her, she was a voluntary receptionist, etc. He asked me very seriously if she had developed a neurological condition, maybe a brain tumor.

God, this conversation with her was wrenching. I got a lot more information out of this because I played them off against each other, with the threat against the OM and the faking that I had info from her leading to some honest data there.

Like she initially said 3 times they were together. So did he. I told her he said 20. She was like, absolutely no, maybe 8. Since that was what he had said, (after first saying 3, must have been the agreed upon story)) probably about right.

The worst was when I said "How often has he been to this house?" just fishing, and got a "about five times. "Where did you have sex?" -- on the guest bedroom bed.

I was totally expecting "no" to both those questions. I think that is the moment my heart snapped close.

"Did you have unprotected sex?" No!no! How about unprotected oral? Sheepish look.

I ripped into her about destroying our family and disrespecting the house and everything else, and told her all she cared about right now was her BF. No! that's over. Really? Why? Because of him wanting to reconcile with his wife. So, not because of you wanting to commit to your family, only because his wife is c@ck-blocking you.

Sigh....there is a lot more, the seeming attempt to introduce him to everyone in her life and be ready to slide her into my place.

I must say, it was the first time I got some level of contrition out of her, she was terrified, but not over her marriage, over her kids.

Then she pleads she wants to work on the marriage and wants a hug (read sex). Basically flips on everything she said 6 hours ago in the talk I wrote about here. Seems to not remember -- genuinely -- is that a fog thing? Looked confused when I quoted her same words back to her, and she has a memory like an elephant.

I think my hand is played here. We are supposed to meet Friday with a divorce mediator to start figuring it out.

Damn, she is so f'ing cute. What's the policy on a grudge#$% on the way out the door?

:-) <-- very weak smile
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 09:40 AM


PS:

Mikey's moving to the Divorce Board
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 11:44 AM
You left this board too soon!

Posted By: lousygolfer Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/09/08 06:57 PM
TheRoad:

I don't think so.

I think he should head over to the Divorce board.

I don't see an ounce of forgiveness in him, and I think he is a bad influence on his children.

If my soon to be 16 year old son called me and told me he was having a wild party at the house while I was gone, he WOULD BE TOAST when I returned. And my Betrayed spouse would have TOASTED him as well, it DOESN"T matter WHAT excuse he used.

Mike just laughed and told his son to keep calling back with more updates.

Yes, she had an affair, but Mike is doing ?????

LG
Posted By: FaithfulWifeCJ Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/10/08 07:06 AM
Hey Mike! shocked I can NOT believe this! And yeah, I remember you from "back in the day" (2/3/99 was my D-day) so I hope you remember me too. I'll post to ya on the Divorcing/Divorce thread. Mike, you know me. You know I believe in marriage and I believe in MB, and I will never counsel anyone to divorce until every option has been considered, but I can also REALLY understand where you're coming from and I want to give you a word of advice from someone who has been through a divorce. Some of the things you are doing right now are decisions based on a reaction to your feelings..and whilst that is 100% understandable, it is not the most legally WISE decision. So will you do me a favor? I promise I understand how you feel (sadly) and I have been through the legal landmines. I would encourage you to consider the REMOTE possibility of reconciling but if that is impossible, I understand that too and would love to give you some advise on how to negotiate the legal system with some dignity and some wisdom. Okay? For just tonight only please just get through the night and sort of leave her alone to her own misery. See you over in Divorcing/Divorced and if you wouldn't mind may I give you a hug from a fellow "oldie"?

I am SO SORRY you're here!


~FaithfulWife
Posted By: Mike_C2 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/10/08 12:38 PM
Thanks a lot, FH. Of course I remember you!

However, I think Div is becoming the board for me. I don't think I could ever get past this gross betrayal.

Frankly, three of her colest friends and relatives have told me they think something neurological is going on.

PS: these boards have become a cesspool. It really is horrible given the role they play or have played in people's lives.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/10/08 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Mike_C2
PS: these boards have become a cesspool. It really is horrible given the role they play or have played in people's lives.

I posted to you - in sincerity - hoping to help you - because I understand what you are going through - it's an awful experience

I have been reading your posts - forum to forum - seeing if there was anything helpful I might add (that had not already been said by someone else)

I did not expect a "thank you"
I did not expect a response
I did not expect to be characterized as part of a "cesspool"

I sincerely wish you the best and bid you adieu

Pep
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/10/08 03:05 PM
WOW crazy
Posted By: jayne241 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/10/08 03:17 PM
I must say... ditto.

I am truly sorry you are going through this pain. I wanted to help but realize that my time here does not even come close to yours, plus I'm probably the wrong gender to be able to offer you much help at the moment, especially in your pain.

I know you are in pain and so don't want to turn this into being about me... but yes, what pep said. I know this board has ups and downs, and sometimes the downs are quite bad and I'm upset about that too, but... blanket statements about cesspools? When the majority of us were saying things in total agreement to what K and JL were saying? In your pain, it seems you are napalming everything around you...

I'm not saying this as well as pep. I also sincerely wish you the best and bid you adieu.
Posted By: penaltykill Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/10/08 03:51 PM
MikeC2, you do realize that with your last comment you're simply contributing to the "cess". (Is that even a word?)

I saw plenty of posters (jayne, faithfulwifeCJ, FH, greengables and others) giving you good advice, some of it tinged with the *mildest* of criticism. Labeling the entire forum strikes me as reactive, rather than thoughtful.

Best of luck to you in your recovery.

PK
Posted By: VegMom36 Re: Old Poster Who Just Found Out SOS - 08/10/08 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Mike C2
Hi,

I never thought I'd be making this post.

My wife as been distant. Jiust when through her email and found love notes with a co-worker.

I'm sitting her shaking.

She is on her way home, probably/definitely from being with him.

I plan on sitting her down and confronting her.

I read the rules of confrontation.

any advice? Do this immediately?
Attractive: Confident, Fun, Easy going, Active

Unattractive: Sad, Clingy, Mopey, Needy, Lazy

BE ATTRACTIVE


Your signature really caught my eye. Very true indeed.
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