Cerri~ they said you could help????? dh having ea with EX

Ok, I'm just going to jump in with my story. I have been cheated on physically before I married my dh.

When dh and I met he was getting over a relationship with his ex fiance. We lived in different states. He came to visit, while being intimate he called me her name ok, I'm Tracy she is Stacy. To this day he still denies doing it. I know what I heard. When I would visit him there was never really evidence of her around. She didnt call etc. While visiting, we talked about getting married etc.

After he left I found conversations between the two of them on my comp. He was calling her MRs (his last name) how she was the love of his life etc. He lied to her about where he was and what was going on in his life. His explanation was he was trying to get his engagement rings back. I guess I was to caught up, low self esteem to even run the other way without passing go. My fault I know. So I married him.

While married at first we didn't live together. He said he was going somewhere and would be home in a couple of hours. I called all night long he never came home. Said he got drunk fell asleep at a friends house. I know he wasn't with her because she lives in a different country. Doesn't mean he wasn't with someone else.

SO I move there, when I get there and we are moving his stuff into our house, I find old phone bills of him calling me, calling her etc on and on even after we were married. What am I to do now right? Here I am a military wife just moved my 2 year old daughter to be with my husband. FOund more conversations on his computer after we were married calling her by his last name. Then when she would make him mad he would tell her about me but she didn't believe him.

Fast forward to me being pregnant and severly depressed during the pregnancy. Have the baby, we are distant. We have some problems and I said things I probably shouldnt have. Told him every time I put my trust in a man I get let down and he just proved it. So, we are even more distant. He leaves for a drive I call he says he is on the phone with his mom. The next day I get into one of his e-mail accounts and check the phone bill. He has been calling his ex again. They were e-mailing back and forth talking how they are soul mates and he was making plans to go see her. I know it wasn't possble for him to go see her, he had no money, but still its the point. He had been talking to her for over a week. She is married and has a baby the same age as ours. So I get her on the phone. She tells me they have never stopped communicating. He stays in contact with her calls her or e-mails her for every holiday she has pictures of our daughter. SHe says that she truly believes she made a mistake and my husband is her soul mate. But she said she would never leave her husband.

I was devistated at that point. I just felt like my whole life came crashing in on me. Yet its my fault. I saw the signs and kept going. This all happened about 8 months ago. We are now living yet again in another state, thank goodness I refused to go anywhere but where my family is. It doesn't appear that there is any contact with this woman, but how do I know for sure. He has his own email at work that I will never have access to. I can't trust him at all. I wonder constantly if he is cheating on me with someone else. I have always told him I could have dealt better with him having sex with a random stranger than to see the written words of how he loves this other woman more than anything and he misses her and will do anything to be with her. I have never felt like I was enough for him. This woman is absolutely beautiful, a model. I am almost 100lbs overweight. To this day I think he married me just to not be alone because she had moved on. I found out he sent a pic of someone else to her and his friends saying that person was his wife. I still don't know if or how to get over any of this. He shows remorse, we tried couseling. I just can't get past it. I am angry at him.

TO make matters worse after I had our daughter who is now 1, I have problems having sex. SO of course, if I cant have sex with him, that adds one more worry. He loves looking at porn. It used to not bother me but because of everythign else became a huge issue. I have asked him to stop he agreed. Last week I found an email account of his that I had no idea about, an amatuer porn website he had been visiting and posting comments to other woman on. Now he gets upset when I question him. Says, I don't respect him by always questioning him. I really don't even know where to begin to make things better. Wow, if you are still reading this, I am grateful. I am sitting here crying trying to at least make some sense, I just have so many emotions going on, and they won't stop. One day is ok the next is awful. I can't keep living like this, but don't know how to end it.

[ September 12, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: neverenough ]

going to bump this hope someone can help me out....

I feel like we are living the same lives with a H that has always felt he was in love with someone else. I have not advice for I'm going through the same situation but I'm a good listener. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

(((Janet))) I know how you must feel then, always wondering if they are regretting the life they have. I am also here to listen.

Sorry, JUST this moment saw this. Was gone earlier today and am wrapping up now for today. I'm usually not here on weekends.... that 15 hours with spouse rule, ya know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ..... but if I get a chance I'll look back in. Bump for me on Monday if I don't get here this weekend.

C

bumpin for Cerri. Thank you!

Dear NE,

I have avoided this thread ever since I first saw it, please forgive me for that. Today, I am offering hugs to you and a shoulder.

I unfortunately can understand and empathsize w/ your situation.

My DH also had an EA w/ his X-W, I believe that it did lead to a PA.
It all came to a head this past December.
His emotional attachment w/ his x-W never really ended, as far as either were concerned.

I believe that it is finally over.
I still pray that it is really over.

I am not sure of what "advice" or "suggestions" i can give you.

I will come back shortly w/ a link to HYPATIA'S THREAD. If it helps or atleast lets you know that you are not alone, well......

HYPATIA'S THREAD

xo
Hypatia

[ September 15, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: *Hypatia ]

Ok, so let me see if I have this right.... He cheats on his fiance... he cheats on you.... he lies... he uses you to hurt her AFTER you're married... and he seems to have a problem with porn...

AND YOU ARE THE ONE NOT RESPECTING HIM????

Please.

Ok, little rant there... now let's see what you can do. Harley talks every once in a while about people who are, as he calls them "dangerous to your happiness." I tend to agree with him, and I think that doesn't meant that you need to write off the R, but it does mean that you need to be pretty strong when you set boundaries... don't get walked on.

I guess I was to caught up, low self esteem to even run the other way without passing go. My fault I know. So I married him.

Yes, well... we all make mistakes and do things we wish we hadn't.

While married at first we didn't live together.

The first year of marriage is statistically the most dangerous. And it is very detrimental to marriages to spend time apart.... so not living together during that first year, or part of it, certainly contributed to your problems. But I don't think it caused them.... there was a lot going on there anyway.

She is married and has a baby the same age as ours. So I get her on the phone. She tells me they have never stopped communicating. He stays in contact with her calls her or e-mails her for every holiday she has pictures of our daughter. SHe says that she truly believes she made a mistake and my husband is her soul mate. But she said she would never leave her husband.

You need to contact the husband asap. He needs to know what is going on so there can be pressure on that end. Two families and two marriages are teetering on the edge and it makes a difference if he knows.

Yet its my fault. I saw the signs and kept going.

Ok, well it's your fault for not looking at the signs, I'll give you that. But it's not your fault that your husband is cheating on you.

It doesn't appear that there is any contact with this woman, but how do I know for sure.

You don't and you can't unless you have some conditions for recovery. And you don't have that, you just have bumbling around after an affair... a recipe for disaster.

Ok, so what have you done so far to effect change? That's where we need to start. Have you looked at your love busters? Are you being honest about how you feel and what you need? Are you working on your negotiation skills so that you can negotiate for what you want and need? That's where all change begins... with you.

C

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Ok, so let me see if I have this right.... He cheats on his fiance... he cheats on you.... he lies... he uses you to hurt her AFTER you're married... and he seems to have a problem with porn...

AND YOU ARE THE ONE NOT RESPECTING HIM???? <hr /></blockquote>The relationship between his fiance and him had ended when we became involved. I believe he was still healing from it at that point.

The respect thing, I think what he is trying to say is that his a major lovebuster for him, me always questioning him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> You need to contact the husband asap. He needs to know what is going on so there can be pressure on that end. Two families and two marriages are teetering on the edge and it makes a difference if he knows. <hr /></blockquote>At this point I wouldn't even know how to get in contact with him. Since this happened almost 8 months ago, wouldn't it cause more problems? Meaning dh says there is no contact if I contact her dh it is likely to start contact between dh and her again. I know she will try to contact him and tell him to control me etc. Or possibly if her husband leaves her she may even be more determined to come after my dh? I don't even have any of the proof anymore.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Ok, so what have you done so far to effect change? That's where we need to start. Have you looked at your love busters? Are you being honest about how you feel and what you need? Are you working on your negotiation skills so that you can negotiate for what you want and need? That's where all change begins... with you. <hr /></blockquote>I'm not sure if I have done much of anything. We did take the ENQ. We haven't done the LBQ yet, he has been working the last couple of days. My negotiation skills are at about a 0. I know this is a major lovebuster for him. I have to work on it. I am very my way or no way. On more than one occassion I have point blank told him if he does it I'm leaving. THis isn't something like an affair. This is something such as sending money to family that I don't agree with. ALso he was going to take a job back east I told him if he did he would be going alone. Big lovebuster I know.

To him having his ex fiance thrown in his face (which I do) is a huge lovebuster. I can't let her go. Even though he says he has.

Being honest with what I want and need? I don't even know anymore. I know I want a husband who is in love with me, who cherishes me. I want a happy marriage. I want to enjoy my time with him. I just don't know if that is possible.

Thank you for taking the time to respond!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The relationship between his fiance and him had ended when we became involved. I believe he was still healing from it at that point.<hr /></blockquote>No it didn't, and that's the problem. The relationship never did really end. You aren't even sure that it is over now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The respect thing, I think what he is trying to say is that his a major lovebuster for him, me always questioning him.<hr /></blockquote>I see an opportunity here to request that he take steps to be proactive about demonstrating to you that she is out of the picture.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> At this point I wouldn't even know how to get in contact with him. <hr /></blockquote>You have her name and last known phone number don't you? You need to find out how to contact him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> To him having his ex fiance thrown in his face (which I do) is a huge lovebuster. I can't let her go. Even though he says he has.<hr /></blockquote>What has he done to demonstrate to you that there is no more contact? What steps has he taken to rebuild trust.

You need to get your LBs under control.

I am not cerri, but I will say that you need to listen to her advice.

[ September 15, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]

Takola~

Actually I don't have her last phone number. I got rid of all the information. I was driving myself crazy. I know it might be possible to contact her via e-mail. However I know once I do she will resume contact with my dh.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What has he done to demonstrate to you that there is no more contact? What steps has he taken to rebuild trust. <hr /></blockquote>In ways nothing, in other ways a lot. I do now have access to all of his e-mail accounts (that I know about) Found a new one last week. Well the account wasn't new he just finally admitted he used the account. There were two accounts that he primarily communicated with her on, they are both closed.

He doesn't really see it as an emotional affair. He was angry at me and did it out of spite, according to him.

THank you for responding I am open to everyones suggestions and ideas.

As for the lbing. I know I need to stop but when anger takes a hold it is so hard. I am working on it though!

bump

bump for cerri...

I responded to you yesterday, but it seems to have gotten lost. Cerri will come back, she is just very busy.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> In ways nothing, in other ways a lot. I do now have access to all of his e-mail accounts (that I know about) Found a new one last week. <hr /></blockquote>If you are finding new ones, you don't have all of them. Finding new ones concerns me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He doesn't really see it as an emotional affair. <hr /></blockquote>He may or he may not. It's hard to know what he truly believes, as he is not likely to admit it to you. He is likely to try to stay in Egypt (you know - daNile) for as long as he can.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He was angry at me and did it out of spite, according to him. <hr /></blockquote>Oh, they all have some weird-@ss reason for 'doing' it. They are remarkably similar. Don't believe a word of it - fog fog fog.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> As for the lbing. I know I need to stop but when anger takes a hold it is so hard. I am working on it though! <hr /></blockquote>The LBing pushes your H away and makes it easier for him to justify his actions. It takes control, but it needs to stop.

Thank you Takola for taking the time to respond

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If you are finding new ones, you don't have all of them. Finding new ones concerns me. <hr /></blockquote>That makes two of us. It is an account that has popped up on my computer here and there. I finally made a few connections on the computer. Between a couple of websites (porn) that had the email account as the username.. He finally couldn't deny it. Pretty slick though, it had a picture in the profile, but it was of someone else. He gave himself away with a few different things on the profile though. The account is now closed.

I hear people on here talk about radical honesty. I understand it is possible, but in reality you will never know. You are just taking their word for it. If they have lied in the past. What is to make me believe they all of a sudden see it so important to practice "radical honesty"

Trust is earned. Your spouse has destroyed trust, and it needs to be rebuilt. Of course, you should never fully trust your spouse - especially when it comes to an affair. Steps should be taken so that you can be assured that he is telling the truth. I tell people to get creative. One person asked, "How can I verify that he went hunting?" She lives in London, so obviously he didn't hunt there. I said, "Ask what town he is hunting in. Surely he can come back with a receipt for a gas purchase in that town." (OW lived across the street.) There are many things that can be done. You have to be creative.

Can you elaborate on the porn thing?

[ September 17, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Can you elaborate on the porn thing?
<hr /></blockquote>I don't know where to begin.. Let's see. It used to not bother me. For some reason it really started to bother me. Maybe because it consumed so much of him. We agreed he would no longer look at it.

When I found that last e-mail address he was subscribed to every yahoo group possible. Bi-sexual, lesbian, swinger, nasty picture group there was. History on the computer showed he was looking at them also. He was going to amatuer porn sites and posting on them. NOt pictures but some pretty sexual comments to the pictures.

Just this morning I walked into the room (he thought I was in bed) and there is a pic on the screen. As soon as I walked in he clicked out of it. He is doing a paper for school on sex addiction. Said thats what he was doing. How convenient to use school as an excuse to look. I found him doing searches for sites that were not related to sex addiction, but again amatuer porn sites.

He always says his fantasy of course is a threesome there is nothing wrong about looking at pictures and chatting with people online that are involved in it. I say it is a problem, especially when some of these groups are local people....

bump

bump, takola.... cerri?

?????

still lookin for ways to handle this.. Anyone, any ideas?

Hey.... I'm sorry... I'm lost... LOL

Tell me what it is we want to do? Sounds like you are struggling with whether or not to try to work recovery from where you are or go to PlB?

If he's not willing to agree to accountability and the other conditions of recovery then you can either stay and continue to attempt to negotiate, or you can do PlB.....

The real question is how are you feeling?

C

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Tell me what it is we want to do? Sounds like you are struggling with whether or not to try to work recovery from where you are or go to PlB? <hr /></blockquote>I don't know what I want to do. Oh yes I do, I want to be able to trust my husband. I want to be in a loving relationship.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> If he's not willing to agree to accountability and the other conditions of recovery then you can either stay and continue to attempt to negotiate, or you can do PlB..... <hr /></blockquote>Plan B? Never have done a Plan A. Are these done just for viewing porn? The EA ended over 7 months ago. There hasn't been any contact that I am aware of.

He has agreed to install a spyware on the computer. Of course he can always do it elsewhere, but I think that's possible in any situation.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The real question is how are you feeling? <hr /></blockquote>I am tired of getting on the computer and seeing a "website" he has been to. Or a link he has emailed himself but denied doing it. I am tired of spending so much negative energy looking, wondering, being angry.....

Did have something positive to post. I picked up dh from work yesterday. I had him take me into the station and open his e-mail. I was deathly afraid. There was nothing there. It is possible that he had deleted anything. But he had know way of knowing I would want to check it. It was definately a good step for us.

Also yesterday I tried to log onto one of his e-mail accounts and it said I had the wrong password. Which means he had to have changed the password. I was very upset. I asked him for the information to reset the password. His secret question had to do with one of his ex gf, he couldnt' remember who though lol.. Usually when his ex gf's come up I LB all over the place. I didn't.

Anyhow, later on that night I tried again and the password worked. I guess something was wrong with the system. There was nothing in there for me to worry about either. I know he couldn't have changed the pw back because he didn't get on the computer at all last night. I was certain I was going to find him communicating with his ex fiance...

I don't know what I want to do. Oh yes I do, I want to be able to trust my husband. I want to be in a loving relationship.

Oh no fair!!! That is a cheat answer that is always right!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> LOL

Plan B? Never have done a Plan A. Are these done just for viewing porn? The EA ended over 7 months ago. There hasn't been any contact that I am aware of.

Well then, I guess it's time for a dose of PlA for you. Yeah, it's fine to use with porn, although I would tend to say that it's not so much PlA as plain and simple Plan MB. So that's what we'll call it. Like PlA requires that YOU change what and how you do things. And I'm not talking about being nice and meeting needs, I'm talking about becoming vulnerable through honesty and sharpening your own skills at negotiating for what you want.

He has agreed to install a spyware on the computer. Of course he can always do it elsewhere, but I think that's possible in any situation.

I think that demonstrates good faith and willingness. But let me ask this... why spyware? That only tells you where he's been, why not a filter AND spyware. Then much of the bad stuff is disallowed and you get to see what he's doing in email etc.

I am tired of getting on the computer and seeing a "website" he has been to. Or a link he has emailed himself but denied doing it. I am tired of spending so much negative energy looking, wondering, being angry.....

Yeah, I'm sure you are. It's wearing. Plan MB is proactive so I'm hopeful you will feel better just by taking some steps. And then if that doesn't work in the next 8-12 weeks or so we can talk PlB... unless you're really struggling before then.

So here is the Plan:

Honesty, honesty, honesty..... that is the foundation, You need to let your husband know how you feel about the choices and decisions he is making. This is touchy... it's not about judging him or telling him what you think of those things... that's disrespectful... it's about letting him know how you FEEL. Did you see the list of feeling words I posted a while ago? You need those.... print them off.

Here is the method. When he does something you like or don't like you say, "I feel <word from list> when <whatever the behavior or choice is>."

Now there are some important things to keep in mind. You must be calm, courteous and respectful NO MATTER WHAT. If he gets defensive and angry or lashes out at you in any way you say, "I'm sorry you are upset. I'm not telling you what to do, I just want you to know how I feel."

Write those things down and practice on the little stuff.... "Honey, I'm unhappy that the bag of chips is left open on the counter." The words feel really wrong at first. I had a hard time getting my mouth to make those shapes, but you can do it. It gets easier as time goes on.

The next step... POJA... have you read about it? I've written quite a bit here and more at EN, let me know if you want the links and I'll see if I can dig them up.

Here is the reading at the main site, start there. POJA

There are more links from this one I'm sure.

Here's the gist of it, and here's what I want from you.

POJA "Never DO anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse."

If you are not both thrilled with the choices you make about your life, then you do nothing until you can negotiate to that point. We can talk more about that... but here's what I want from you.... over the weekend do not DO anything you're not entirely thrilled with. Do nothing instead.

You don't have to attemnpt to teach this to your spouse. For the weekend all you have to say is, "That isn't really going to work for me, so I'll pass."

And then... before you do anything, check with him to see how he feels about it. This is not asking permission, it's a reality check on how your choices will feel to your spouse. So you say, "How would you feel about <insert whatever it is you want>"

If he's thrilled then do it. If not don't do it. If you can't find something you're both enthusiastic about, do nothing.

The other parts of Plan MB are spending 15 hours a week giving each other your undivided attention and meeting the needs of Conv, Aff, RC, and SF, eliminating lbers and meeting needs... and we'll get to those. But honesty and POJA are the basic foundation.... so let's start with that.

Let me know how the weekend goes. Taking these steps rocks the boat, changes the status quo and tends to make things look worse than they have in the past. That's ok... stay calm, be courteous. If we don't make waves we can't make change.

C