Very confussed...insights anyone?...kinda long.

Good morning all. I’m starting a new thread here to specifically address a new feeling of hopelessness (or maybe just to rant a little… I haven’t decided yet). As anyone who has read any of my previous posts can attest, I love my wife more than anything on earth. Even through her affair, I’ve always felt that I could put that aside and we could recover and build a happy healthy, and passionate marriage. However, I’ve recently found out some rather disturbing information from an ex-friend of my WW concerning her recreational activities during our marriage.

First off, let me explain the relationship to the friend. I’ve known this woman for as long as I’ve known my WW. They are the same age (26) and worked together when I met my WW. For the following 4 years, the friend became a pretty close friend of the family. My kids loved her and vice versa. She would bring her boyfriends over for us to meet, she would watch the kids for us when we needed a night out, she would tag along when we would go a look at our house during construction. All in all, she was a close friend of the family. Along with that, her and my WW would go out on the town occasionally. The friendship came to an abrupt halt about a year ago and the details my wife provided were a little sketchy, but since I had no reason to be suspicious I just let it go.

The friendship basically dissolved due to a fight about some specific details of a couple of events. The fight itself took place via email and voice mail. Surprise, surprise… all the emails got deleted before I had a chance to read them. Part of what I did pick up on was an allegation of a one night stand by my wife and a male friend of the family friend. My wife was adamant that nothing happened and the friend (we’ll call her Jane) was just being vindictive and trying to cause problems in the marriage. Again, I had no reason to not trust my W, so I let it go.

Well, since the current affair and circumstances have unfolded, I’ve found myself more and more suspicious of those events between WW and Jane that led to their falling out. I contacted the friend and met her for drinks last week. She said she was surprised to hear from me but knew instantly why I was calling. She proceeded to fill me in that my wife had a ONS with Jane’s friend and personal trainer one night after WW and Jane went out. They had run into the trainer while out and all went back to Jane’s mom’s house (Jane was living with her mom at this time due to a break up that left her homeless) to talk a little. Since the trainer lived in another town, Jane told him he could sleep in the guest room. After a while of chatting, Jane said she was tired and was going to bed, WW and trainer could stay up and talk if they wanted. A while later, Jane’s mom was awaken to the sound of WW and trainer having sex in the guest room. When Jane confronted the two of the next day, they both said the EXACT same thing: “Nothing happened, we just talked about stuff.” According to Jane, it was word for word the same answer. Jane tolde me that her and her mom got in a huge fight over this, as Jane’s mom was adamant as to what she heard and Jane didn’t want to believe it. In addition, the trainer quit a week later. This was (according to Jane) the straw that broke the camels back and Jane decided to tell WW that she didn’t want to be friends with her any longer. A fight ensued and it was brought up that maybe WW should get checked for STD’s because you never know what the trainer might have. According to Jane, WW left a VERY long and threatening VM saying that if this ever got back to me, that WW didn’t know what would happen to Jane. Jane had better not mess with WW’s family or else!!! The VM was of such a threatening nature that Jane’s employer required Jane to take down a statement and archieved the message for their records. Jane was very apologetic for not telling me a year ago, but was very much in fear of my WW at that point.

Among the other things that Jane told me was that WW was always hitting on guys to get them to buy her drinks, she was always wanting to go to “after bar” parties, she was into recreational drug use (smoking pot), and was smoking cigarettes regularly behind my back. Even things like discipline of our kids was night and day from when I was around to when I wasn’t. WW and I both agreed that drugs had absolutely no place in our lives when we had our kids. She was a recreational user in high school and basically cut it back to just pot in college. I’ve never done drugs of any kind. But, we did agree that since we had kids, that it had no place in our lives. She agreed and seemed very adamant about it. It appeared to me that she had grown out of her partying days. Smoking of cigarettes isn’t that big of a deal to me, but it really bothers me that she was doing it behind my back. It does, and would have then, that she was hitting on guys and allowing them to buy her drinks. And she always claimed that Jane was dragging her to parties and that the people where friends of Jane’s. When in reality, my WW would go out and find some guys that she could cozy up to in order to get drinks and then go to their place for an after bar party and smoke pot and hang out till all hours of the evening.

Here is my issue. I have felt like this current affair was something we could get past and recover from. But, that was when I held the opinion that my REAL wife wouldn’t ever do this, the woman I married was not this way. As it turns out, I have no idea who I married. I’ve held that this would be much easier to deal with if it was a fluke, if they just fell for each other by accident rather than this just being part of her behavior.

Some how it makes all the difference in the world that she has done this before. Combine that with all the other lies, and I don’t possibly see how I can ever trust her again. How can this possibly work out at this point? The drug use is a MAJOR deal breaker for me as well. It just seems that she is still stuck in this young adult, party phase of life where she just does whatever makes her feel good regardless of what it does to anyone around her. Even if she did want to come home, how and the hell do we recover this when I don’t even feel like I know the real woman I’m married to?

My 2 year old told me yesterday that he didn’t want mommy to be part of our family anymore. He was adamant that “No! She can’t! I don’t want Mommy in our family anymore.” Shaking his head the whole time. He also told me that mommy sits and cries in her apartment all the time. My 4 year old heard this and came running from across the house screaming that “No she doesn’t!!! Mommy doesn’t cry… no she doesn’t!!!” I didn’t quit know what to make of this. I don’t even know if it matters anymore. I don’t know if I even want her back.

Has anyone else gone through this sort of twist of events? Has anybody else learned during an affair that this isn’t the first time and that the whole marriage has been a pack of lies? I don’t know what was real and what was a lie. I’m very confussed right now. Somebody please tell me why on earth I would want to have this woman back? Anyone…anyone….???

[ December 08, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]

Has anyone else gone through this sort of twist of events? Has anybody else learned during an affair that this isn’t the first time and that the whole marriage has been a pack of lies?

Yes and yes. Both personally and with people I work with. It turns your entire life upside down and is one of the worst things you will have to confront.

I don’t know what was real and what was a lie. I’m very confussed right now. Somebody please tell me why on earth I would want to have this woman back? Anyone…anyone….???

Because YOU made a commitment - and that is about you and not about what she is doing right now.

Because she is the mother of your children and the only person who ever will be.

Because people can and do change. She needs to hit her own personal botton. If she is indeed sitting in her apt. crying, then perhaps that will be sooner rather than later. When her addictions become more painful than facing the changes she needs to make then she will do so. The real danger to your marriage right now is you.

So tell me that you are going to maintain strict n/c and stay in PlB through the holidays. Don't soften her loneliness and enable her to continue by giving into your own emotions.

C

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Has anyone else gone through this sort of twist of events? Has anybody else learned during an affair that this isn’t the first time and that the whole marriage has been a pack of lies? I don’t know what was real and what was a lie. I’m very confussed right now. Somebody please tell me why on earth I would want to have this woman back? Anyone…anyone….???
<hr /></blockquote>WMWB -- Man oh man, do I have a story to tell you. Can't get into it right now as I'm at work, but I'll post this evening. My tag line at the bottom of the post should provide a bit of a "teaser". Long story short, I found out August 3 that the person I thought I was married to and the person I really was married to were totally different. A lot of people knew about this before I did.

More later, I promise.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Has anyone else gone through this sort of twist of events? Has anybody else learned during an affair that this isn’t the first time and that the whole marriage has been a pack of lies? I don’t know what was real and what was a lie. I’m very confussed right now. Somebody please tell me why on earth I would want to have this woman back? Anyone…anyone….??? <hr /></blockquote>Yes. Not only did I find out about H's A this past June (same OW he had an A with in his first M), I've learned that he has been lying to me about almost everything since I've met him. My 3 1/2 year M to him is nothing but a sham. H is an alcoholic, serial cheater, liar and suffers from low self-esteem and abandonment issues from childhood.

I've been back and forth within myself about whether or not to work on this M, especially because of our age difference.

I'm trying for now. H has committed himself to AA, IC and our M. Since 10/23, he has shown that he is sorry, remorseful, hurt and desparately wants to change. I love him to death and am willing to give him some time to prove himself.

I would think that you would want your W back if she is willing to work on her personal issues and your M with you.

Good Luck!

SSS

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Has anyone else gone through this sort of twist of events? Has anybody else learned during an affair that this isn’t the first time and that the whole marriage has been a pack of lies? I don’t know what was real and what was a lie. I’m very confussed right now. Somebody please tell me why on earth I would want to have this woman back? Anyone…anyone….???<hr /></blockquote>Yes. As you can see, you're not alone in this either. Read what Cerri posted. It's what I'm going to work with as well, though I'm not the biological father of any children (with my WW or anyone else).

For me, I kind of knew, but chose to either ignore it, convince myself that it never happened, or convince myself that it would never happen again. Now, looking back, I'm really not surprised that I find myself where I am today. So, although not as much of an abrupt shock as yours, I'm another who can look back on my 7 year relationship with my WW and ask all of those same questions.

And my answer is...I would want to have her back because I love her, and because (someday...hopefully) we will be taking steps together to work towards a new, better, healthier marriage than we ever thought we had.

Cerri

I am maintaining the most strict N/C that I have thus far (which, I know, isn't saying much). Mostly because I'm afriad of what I'd say to her... it wouldn't be pretty. Basically you could say I'm following the rule of protection with her. I'm so damn angry that right now I don't feel like I'd care if I EVER talk to her again. But I'm sure that will change.

I will not talk to her, I haven't seen her in a week or so, I have NO desire to talk to her...none. No worries there.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Want My Wife Back???:
 I will not talk to her, I haven't seen her in a week or so, I have NO desire to talk to her...none. No worries there. <hr /></blockquote>I know very much how you feel. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I saw my WW yesterday for the first time in 9 days, and will see her again tomorrow night at a school play for one of the kids. Beyond that, I have no desire or intention to contact her again. Since I'm not in Plan B, I'll respond if she emails me, or talk if she calls. But I'm moving on, and will not be making an effort to stay in touch with her. Not right now.

Good luck WMWB. I'm right there with ya'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

^^Bumping for Reseviordog1... eagerly awaiting your story man!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ^^

WMWB-

If you are the person I think you are, you might remember me... You met my FWW, myself along with P and her H in a coffee shop at Thanksgiving.

If you remember then we were talking about how drastic a FWS can change if they want to. I know the feeling of a sham M, my W started her A the month after we were M. While dating, she lied repeadetly and all sorts of other things. I too felt that my M was a sham and that I didn't know who I married. That is the negative of all this.

The positive is not that my FWW has removed her head from her nether regions I am given the oppertunity to watch her grow as a young woman. I am also given the chance to learn anew, her likes and dislikes and so forth. It is alomost like dating again. Now don't get me wrong, recovery is REALLY difficult, but during those tough days I hold out hope for the new adult woman that should come out the other end. This has alos given me the chance for personal growth of my own.

When your WW hits rock bottom, only then can she begin to truely grow as a woman and a mother.

STTSI-

Is this the coffee shop we got thrown out of because they close at 1:00 p.m. on Sundays? In Rogers...? If so, then yeah... i do remember you and your W. Nice to hear from you.

I'm glad you posted here, I've been kind of wondering about your story. What kinds of things did you do in plan B and how long did it take for her to come around and return home? You and i are the same age, i think, how old is your W?

A coffee shop that is only open till 1 on a Sunday? Only in Rogers!!!

Our story:
I am 27 she is 26. Met and dated in High School, broke up but kind of remained friends. Started dating again later, dated for 5 years, living together for 4 of those years. Been married for 18 months now.

One month after we got married she started an affair with a co-worker at a job she started just before marriage. I questioned her about the A, she denied it. We were married June '02. July '02 EA started. August '02 PA started. Sept '02 she said she wanted her on place. Oct '02 she finally sliped up and I found proof of the A, I then moved out. Nov '02 I confronted her with the proof, she admitted to EA and moved to her parents. Dec '02 found MB and started my learning. I moved back home and changed the locks on the door, she filed for Dv so I went into Plan B. Christmas Eve last year, I sent out a copy of my PB letter along with a plea for help to everyone I could think of. Her world closed in and the A was over in 2 weeks.

Last contact with WW was just before Christmas. I got Dv papers and hunkered down for the winter. Out of the blue last March W contacted me about recovery. Since then things have been real hot and cold. W is struggling with growth and I am struggling with patience.

My IL's knew all about W and OM. They lied to me and about me to protect W and the A. To this day they still hate me. That is why P asked if W was talking to them yet.

Sorry it is so long, that is our history in a really, really big nutshell.

What did I do in PB? Nothing really. I learned early on to lay low and protect myself from the temptation of an A of my own. See, last December while at the lowest of my lows, I had lunch with an old friend from school, who also happened to be an ExGF of mine. During that lunch the conversation alone started to make me have feelings for her. I realized how susceptible I was to an A. I took her home and dropped her off. I have only spoken to her once since then, 7 months later with W right next to me. Because of that I only hung with my guy friends and tried to keep my head down so as not to be tempted by women since I was really vulnerable.

When I PB'd my W, I also notified everyone I could think of about the A. W ended the PA 2 weeks later and the EA was officially over when she sent the NC letter 3 months later. It took her 3 months to speak to me about recovery. She moved hom 2 months later. W has been a model regarding how to end an A and keep it finished. Our main problem is communication since a lack thereof is what caused the A to happen.

Any other question, feel free to ask. I promise to do my best to keep my answers shorter.

Best wishes,

Hey don't worry about the long answers. I've been in plB since the end of Sept. I screwed up several times and maintained contact. She initially moved in with her folks and then when she found her own apartment, i started plBII. This one has been far more successful. It is tough with kids, but I'm doing good so far.

So, it took about 5 months for her to come home, huh? I've told everyone I can think of as well, but nobody wants to get involved, they just want to stay out of it. Since her finding her own apartment, the A seems to have intensified, this OM lives two doors down from me. I'm keenly aware of when she is spending the night over there, which is often. She is starting to not even hide it anymore. It seems like plan B is exactly what she wants. I'm trying to be patient.

It is hard for you not to notice when she is there since it is just down the street. Bummer!

I too tried PB many times before I got it right. Looking back now, my only regret is that I didn't PB sooner. I lost a lot of love for my W and that is hurting our recovery.

Try inviting friends over to your place. PB helps her because you are not around to bother her anymore and she is free to enjoy the A. However PB takes you out of the loop as a source of happiness and of pain. So that means that instead of your W and OM sharing only the good times while you and W share the bad, she now shares those bad times with OM also. Over time that will erode her feelings for him. My FWW told me that when I did my Plan A it made the A very difficult for her because it showed that I still cared for her and still loved her. She said that when I went into PB, she loved it because she had the freedom to enjoy things. But she also admits that was the begining of the end for her.

5 months for her to come around? It depends on where you count from. I questioned OM's intentions even before the A started. W said he is just a nice guy. Yeah right. 5 months from the official D-day? Yes. I knew about the A the moment it started, and I had proof about it for weeks before I said to my W cut the crap I know about you and OM. 3 months from she filed for Dv and I went into PB.

Who have you told? All your friends and family? Neighbors? Co-workers? Churh friends? I told every single person I possible could. Even extended family. I gained some friends who felt sorry for me and then lost them when W and I got back together.

5 months is what worked for us. I know some that are shorter and some that are longer, it all depends. Follow the advice from Cerri, go out with friends and stay away from women. That need for female companionship is strong right now and you are vulnerable.

What finally got my W to contact me was I sent her a letter asking her to come and get her stuff out of the house since I didn't want it anymore. I also included some poems I had written during the A. The poems hit her at a time when she was wanting to come home she just didn't know how. So she fianlly contacted me. Problem was, I had fallen out of love with her and was looking forward to the Dv and moving on with my life.

So here I am just a jumble of thoughts and coments for ya...

Sorry to butt in .. but if I could ask a quik question .. what have you done to regain that Love? WMWB knows my situation and also knows like himself I am at the point of not sure if I want to save it any more...

L&C- I think you are asking me that question. I hope I don't thread-jack for WMWB.

What have we/I done? It has been a real rocky road for us since last March. First thing is W quit her job since her OM was a co-worker. Then we went out of town for a week together. We laughed and cried a lot over that time. We worked with Cerri for a while in the beginning. Very helpful. We both have filled out the EN and LB questionaires and are trying to meet eachothers needs. We also did the RC questionaire so we know better what things to do togeher. We have read most of Harley's books and attended his seminar last September. In fits and spurts we are doing the excersises from the seminar. In short, yeah right, we are trying to follow the MB principals.

W has learned the MB stuff and agrees with it. I am sorry L&C because I don't know your story. Any questions you may have you can post to me here or email me at any time.

STTSI-

Don't worry about the thread jacking... L&C and I have essentially the same story, only mine is about a week ahead of his for the most part.

Did you actuall get served with D papers before going into plan B? I just got served Friday night, Cerri tells me to keep up plan B throughout the whole D process and for 6 months afterward. Is this what you did?

I went into PB because W went balistic when I changed the locks on the house. She said she wanted a Dv. I said fine if that is what you want, you will have to file, I stand by y M. Within days, she was sent the PB letter.

About 1 month later I receoved the Dv papers from her. It was like a kick in the gut! I responded to the papers in time, but otherwise stalled as much as I could. I remained in strict NC with W until I sent her the letter asking her to come get her stuff as I stated above.

PB sucked, but it was a whole lot better then seeing the A all the time. I was starting to eat again, work again and have a life outside of the A.

WMWB, I am sorry to hear about the Dv papers. That is a real bummer and makes for bad holidays. I would agree with what Cerri said. Just because you MAY be getting divorced, things MAY still turn around either before or after the Dv process is finished. You don't want to end up as a WS also even though the Dv process has been started. Remain in PB and guard yourself emotionally.

Have you thought of going to a BAN meeting? I started going to their meetings last year and found them to be very helpful. There are two chapters in the cities here.

I am sorry for your pain! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

What is BAN?

BAN Info

The chapter I meet with had a meeting last night so their next meeting will not be until after the new year.

Best Wishes,

Thanks, I'll check it out.

WMWB,

I just got served Friday night,

I am so sorry. How are you feeling? How did the weekend go? How are the boys? Have you told your parents? If so, what do they say?

Cerri's right. Keep in Plan B --- NO CONTACT. LISTEN TO CERRI!

I had a thought about how you could do this better based on what others have said. One, let all your calls go to voicemail. Then you have control over who you call back. Tell your boys your going to do this. Then, two, make up a password with them so that you know its them calling. Little boys especially like making up passwords. That way you don't have to talk to your W at all.

Also, stop LBs. Slights and comments won't win you love units in her bank. Act as if she is still deeply in love with you. How would you treat her differently if this were true?

Remember, others have been known to pull back from the brink and now have the M of their dreams. You could be one of them too. Don't give up hope. You are a wonderful H & father even if she isn't such a wonderful W & mother. (It's hard to believe that she has changed so much in only 3 years.)

How are you planning to spend the holidays?

STTSI - thank you for telling me what you did. WMWB write on each others threads on a regular basis. As WMWB has said my story is almost the same as his .. down to alot of the things our wifes have done and are saying...and how close the Om is.. I just went into a Plan B yesterday. I'm doing it to try and fix myself emotionally now and not really to save my marriage anymore. I need to put space between myself, OM, and WW.. otherwise I think I'll go insane .. ( more insane anyways, if that's possible )

Hi SAB-

Nice to hear from you, sorry I haven't replied in a while. Yup, got the papers a wek ago and still haven't done anything with them. I can't quite figure out why, I guess I'm just trying to decide if I want to contest the D or if I just want to give up and let her go. I feel asa though I'm at a crossroads and have lost my map. I'm sooo tired of all of this and yet I see the looks on my kids faces and wonder how I could ever give up the fight.

There have been several developements in the past week. For starts, both kids and the WW have been sick with fevers (all of them better now) so I took a day off of work to stay with the kids while she was ill on her own. Then she had about $500 worth of car trouble (which there is no way she could afford) and like an idiot... I offered her the use of my truck so she could make it too work. She accepted with minor appreciation. Then finally, she found out that she lost her job. She worked at a nursing home and they had their license pulled by the state and are shutting the doors for good. She was in a bit of a depression for the later part of the week.

It seems as though she has been calling EVERY day since I'd been served and is asking for favors or just wanting to cry on my shoulder about her life. I try to just let her go but I found myself being dragged into letting her cry and trying to be sympathetic to her. Dumb move... I know. I'm back to being dark, letting her deal with her life and trying to put things back together. Hasn't been easy on this end though, with Christmas only a few days away and all. I'm not in what you'd call very much holiday cheer. This is really getting old.

On a slightly different note, the single women seem to be coming out of the woodwork. I have a friend of mine who was trying to fix me up, there is a ex-friend of my WW who seems moderately interested (she asked me out to a concert earlier this week) and it seems that woman at stores and hostesses at restaurants are all particularly flirty these days. Kind of nice on the ego, but I still can't really imagine being with anyone other than my WW. She has been spending tons of time with her OM, she hasn't been home all weekend. She called last night from the next door nieghbors (not OM) at about 9:00 to say goodnight to the kids. Now, her car wasn't over there and she hadn't been home all day... leading me only to assume that she has been at the OM's house ALL WEEKEND. Living this close to him is starting to suck... big time.

Finally, you asked about Christmas. I have the kids all day on the 24th and until 4:00 pm on the 25th. It is her weekend next weekend, so i assume that she will have them from Thursday night until Monday afternoon. We are going to my Mom's on Christmas eve and to my Dad's on Christmas day. Once I drop the kids off... I'm not sure what I'll be doing. It should be a fun holiday.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />