My Wife is seeing another man...... - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Hi everyone,

I am new here and I hope i can get great help from you all....

I November i found out W is seeing another man and it seems that this was going on for over a year to two years to what I can figure out....
She does not know that i know but see how she sneaks out and uses the cell phone as their cantack and voice mails., Some times I even notice emails.....

This OM is a co-worker of hers located in different buildings, they have planned many get togethers and I feel this has gone to a PA....
W has asked me for a D a few times but does not stick to it when she asks and that confuses me more, I will not file b/c i do not want a D...

I love my W with all my heart and we have thre wonderfull children that are my life. My children i feel can see whats going on and they show it by being frustrated , argueing with each other and not wanting to do anything including listening to the parents...
This OM has came in and I cant believe he has no respect to some one elses family that he is destroying....
This OM is also married with kids and I bet he goes home and act's like nothing is going on and has also sex with his wife and Mine....
Me on the other hand , my W is so in love with this OM that she has ignored me and have no sex or not even a kiss...
This OM has told her everything and has her eating out of his hands and calls her all sweet names like young love would be....

This has stressed me alot and I am not sure what to do, please help me and share some advice....
I do want to save my marriage, I love my Wife....

Thank you
Deep Pain

Welcome to marriagebuilders. You can start by reading all the information here, especially Plan A. After you get Plan A down, you can let the OM's wife know what is going on. This will expose the affair and make OM and your wife furious. But it is necessary to end the affair.

I'm glad you found this place. We will help you through this mess.

I have three pieces of advice for you:

1. Read Dr Harley's book 'Surviving An Affair'.

2. Implement Dr Harley's Plan A And Plan B.

3. Seek the services of an MB oriented professional like the Harley's (Steve and Jennifer) from the Marriage Builders Counseling Service. or Penny Tupy (our resident MB coach who goes by the handle of cerri and who hangs out here at the 'just found out' forum) the founder of Save Your Marriage Central. These proffesionals will not only give you much needed support but also help you formulate a marital recovery plan that will give your marriage the best chance to survive and rebuild from the ordeal of your affairs. They are not cheap but they are many times cheaper than divorce lawyers.

While we are not professional counselors we can help you by offering you emotional support during those dark times when everything seems hopeless. Good luck and keep us posted on your situation.

Hello,

I am curious as why you have not contacted the OM's wife? I have a hunch if she is contacted then the chances are increased that the OM will dump your wife. By keeping quiet about this all you are doing is enabling her to continue the affair and hence be a cakewoman.

My advice is much like TMCM's and Bryans. It is contained in the quote below. Pay particular attention to the Plan A links, because that is where you will need to start. <blockquote>quote:<hr /> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. <hr /></blockquote>

I love my W with all my heart and we have thre wonderfull children that are my life.

How old are the children??

This OM has came in and I cant believe he has no respect to some one elses family that he is destroying....

Believe it. The OM in my WW's life is just the same. They are selfish, self-centered jerks. They will bend and break any rule to justify the affair. He has damaged your marriage and is working to destroy your family. You owe him nothing.

This OM is also married with kids and I bet he goes home and act's like nothing is going on and has also sex with his wife and Mine....

See what I mean? You owe him nothing. Do yourself and his wife a favor. Call her and tell her what is going on. He is hurting her with the affair. By telling her the truth you are helping her since she can make her own decision to stay in the marriage or leave.

This OM has told her everything and has her eating out of his hands and calls her all sweet names like young love would be....

How nice for your wife. Is the OM there when the kids get sick and throw up? Does he pay for the food, clothing and shelter your kids need? Does he clean your house and watch over your family's safety and well-being. Of course not! He can do all of those wonderful romantic things because he has NO RESPONSIBLITY for your wife or your kids. And he doesn't care about your children or you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Read Surviving and Affiar ASAP. Get on Plan A. Stop letting your wife and the OM make the rules.

[ January 24, 2004, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: auto009988 ]

You've got to contact the OM's wife.

If he is just using your wife he will drop her pretty quick...and odds are that is exactly what he is doing.

Thank you all for posting and giving me your advise..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My children are D-14, S-10, S-7.....

Their are all messed up and I am trying to keep the family together but it's hard, i also try to spend alot of time with them......

I will read Plan A and start on it right away to it's advise.....

I was thinking of informing the OM W but I thought it will drive my my wife into his hand much quicker due to the OM W throwing him out....

I just cant understand her, she still tells me what she wants to do like renovate the house, go on a family vacation. Last year we did alot of thing to our home and I just dont get it if she wants to leave.....

thanks.
DeepPain

Tell his wife. You'd want to know in her shoes, right? Beyond that, affairs grow in secret, they die in the light of day. There are exceptions of course, but that is the normal course of events. Even if the OM's W does throw him out, throwing the affairees together is sometimes the quickest way to end an affair, actually. You are right that it is a risk, but statistically speaking, your best odds are to tell.

deep

Affairs are like addictions. Secrecy is the "ectasy" of the addiction. Most affairs once in the "light" quit becoming affairs.

Two things happen.

One the gig is up no more free ride. If there is no real feelings there the affair ends quickly if not instantly. Or.........

It becomes a relationship ripe with all the realities a relationship carries with it.

The weight of reality is what tends to kill affairs that continue after discovery.

By remaining silent you are allowing the affair to go on in secrecy on the OM's part.

I know you are all right, keeping in it quiet will make the affair stronger. It just the the out come that worries me, but it has to come out....

Do you think that an affair might die too if it has been going on for a year to 2 years secretly.
Imn November I started to see signas comming out too strong that made me wonder whats going on???

Dont you al think if it gets exposed at their work would be more affective at first before the OM's W finds out, then they would be nervious about the companies knowing an affair if happening on their premises....

I have seen a few affairs happening in the work place and seen the company take action and dismiss both of them......

What are your thoughts.
Thanks
Deeppain.

have you talked to your wife yet?

The Plan A/Plan B approach is the best chance that you have to save your marriage. Plan A involves telling others who might make a difference, starting with the OM's wife.

John's last post is correct! You need to confront your W and you need to let OM's W in on their affair. You stated that you feared the OM's W will kick him straight to the curb...that doesn't happen very often. Most BW's will at the least attempt to keep their marriage together. While some may throw their WH in the street, most will also leave the door open for them to come back home with tail between legs. Most affairs do not end marriages! Most MM will drop the MW/OW rather quickly when the affair is outted. (I'm not saying that all do...but stats are stats for a reason.)

Therefore you first weapon is the truth!!! Use it! Your second weapon is being open to forgivness and to listening. It's being very clear that you want your marriage to succeed and become better, one with honesty, love, caring and kindness at it's foundation.

Good Luck!

Good morning everyone....
Thank you for your thoughts and advise....

I have put some thought to it and I agree with you all, this A must be exposed b/c i do not see that it's getting better....
I reading plan a/Plan B as you advised and I will prepare the exposure....
The only thing that gets to me is that if i approach her ahe will fly of the handle and dinie it unless i show proof.....
I would like to see the exposure come out from another area to me and then I can have better control over the situation, remember I love her and i want to save our marriage and the hardest part is that she works with this guy and she has a good job and she just got promoted.....
I want to her job to expose the A first and then goes to the OM's W to me.
Give me your thoughts.
Thanks.
Deeppain

Start with the OM's wife. Just let her know what is going on and that he is causing a lot of problems in your marriage. Ask her how things are going for her. Refer her to this site.

Don't tell your W you are going to do this. She will warn OM and they will come up with a story.
Yes she will be furious, they all are. But this is the first step towards ending the A.

Thanks believer....
i agree that the OM's W should be informed and be aware of whats going on.....
How about the exposure at their work, how would you think that will turn out...

thanks.
Deeppain

Start with the wife. See what happens when she finds out. My H's OW's H was a great support for me. He also let me know when she had "plans" be be with my H for the weekend, and when she moved in with my H.

It has been helpful and comforting to me to be able to talk to him.

After you let his wife know, give it some time and then expose them at work.

Deeppain,

I can not tell you what to do. My WW was in an A with a co-worker, so I will tell you my experiance.

The day after D-Day, I told my W she had to quit her job without the two weeks notice as I could not stand them being together any longer. N/C had to happen immeadiately. She agreed to, but had a problem with the fact that she would be hurting the company. She came up with a plan where she would work mornings and he afternoons so they would not be together. I said fine as long as someone knew about it. Exposure makes it much more difficult.

She called the OM that day and told him about this. He agreed. I was next to her when she did it, and it was obvious she was not too pleased with me and very concerned about the OM. The fog is tough to handle sometimes. He called the VP at his home that day. It was a Sunday. The next morning my W went in early and the VP just told her to pack up her stuff as the AM/PM thing just would not work and would be disruptive to the rest of the employees.

That afternoon, the company fired the OM in a very humiliating fashion, and asked that my W go back to work. She told them very clearly that I was asking her to quit like that in the morning. So they removed him to make me happy to get her back. Only the exectives knew about the A. In the afternoon, they called an improtu meeting to announce that my W left for personal reasons and she was a great employee, and on an unrelated note that the OM was fired. That he was no good, and a virus to the company. I should not have, but did I ever love that. The OM blamed me for it all and was totally pissed with me.

My W did go back for three months until a replacement was found and trained. The OM again was pissed as he felt she was stabbing him in the back for going back to work. God love him for that. It made my W start to see his real colours.

As for the OMW. I would have told her on D-Day, but could not because she was 7 months pregnant and I was fearful of what that news may have done to her. I made it very very clear to the OM that I was going to tell her but would wait at least a month after she gives birth. I suggested that he come clean with her first.

I wrote a letter and enclosed the evidence I had 6 weeks after she gave birth and hand delivered it to her. She did not know who I was. I just rang the doorbell, Said are you "*****" and handed it to her and left. A couple of weeks before I did this the OM called my W to find out if I was still going to tell his W. My W said yes, I think so. He could not understand this. In any case this forced him in a way to tell his W about the A, so she knew about it before I gave her the letter. That was good. They did stay together and I far as I know they still are.

Now there are some differences here between your situation and mine. My W was scared of losing me. Yours maybe as well but is in a fog, so Plan A is very important in your situation.

If I were in your shoes. I would have exposed the A to all concerned, give it the light of day and then try as hard as I could to win the woman I love back. Plan A. I did follow plan A after D-Day.

I would also be careful to not do it in a vengeful way. You will tell the story in a much different way if you do. If you do it, it has to be just b/c you want your W back.

I guess, I would probably go to the OMW first and see what kind of effect that has, then if neccasary go to the employer.

If you have evidence gather it and use it. You are some strange guy with a story about the OMW's husband. She very well may not believe you.

Thanks PTM for telling me your sit.

How long has your wife's A lasted before it was exposed at her work.
your sit is like mine but my W does not know that i know.......
Did you approach your W with evidence or just your findings.
I want this to be exposed but thinking how it should be done....

Would like to here your thoughts
thanks.
Deeppain

Deeppain,

First, I guess in a way you are little ahead of the game here. Yes, that is right. Your W does not know you know. This gives you some advantages. Second, unlike me, you have alot more control over your emotions.

Others on this board will probalby be better able to get the following message across to you, but I will give it a shot. Your wife is throwing you mixed signals. She discusses D. but then talks about your future together. She is confused and in a fog. Addicted. She probably does not know what she wants, and probably she wants you, but may not get it yet. She has and probably will say things that will be very hurtful this is all part of the fog.

The very first thing you have to keep in mind is that you have to win her back. You have to start fulfilling her EN's as best you can. You have to handle all this without throwing out LB's. This will only cause her to run into his arms further for shelter, a safe place. Chances are there is a void in her that she is filling through the OM. Chances are you can do something about that.

Now that brings us to the next point. You want to expose the affair to her office and the OMW. That is fine, but maybe you should expose it to your W first. What really counts is the two of you to start communicating. You have to find out what she is missing in her life.

It seems pretty obvious to you that there is an EA. Is there PA as well? In my opinion EA is tougher to deal with as there are strong emotions involved, fog. Do you have evidence? If you so secure it first. You do not know if you will need it further down the line. For example, the OMW probably will not believe you if you go to her. Although it is also possible that she knows about it already.

I would sit with my W and tell her you know. I would try to be as caring and understanding as possible. Yes that is correct. You have to be the good one. You have to show her how much you care. You have to win her back, break the fog. Be prepared for lies, be prepared to hear some pretty hurtful things, not just about the A if she opens up to you, but she may attact you personally. Don't believe everything you hear. Chances are she will be scared, upset. She may tell you she does not love you. She may tell you many things. Chances are you will at the very least feel that she cares more about the OM's feelings then yours. You are now trying to take something away from her. Expect a negative reaction to this. I really suggest that you read the principles of this site, before confronting her.

Next is exposing the affair. I would go to the OMW before going to her workplace. She has a right to know. This may help to break up the A.

Deepain, do not go looking for a quick fix here. You will not find it. One thing is for sure the A has to end, before recovery begins, and that starts with communication between you and your W.

Thanks PTM...

This is very confusing and frustrating....
I just know that i must present proof or she will not omite the A and keep lying about.....

I love her so much that still deeply hurts inside that she has done this....
But it must come out and I hope she still has love for me.
i will start showing som EN's to her but slowly and valetine day is coming and I should show something too..
the funny thing too is that she got tickets to go to a valentines day party for the two of us with her cousin, that confused me too why we are going.....

thanks.
deeppain

Deeppain,

You have heard voice mails, you know she sneaks out to call him. You have read e-mails. I do not know what they contain, or how involved the A is, but you do.

With or without evidence, you know something is up and this is eating you soul. At one point with or without evidence, you do have to start comunicating the subject of the A to her. It has to come out.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> How long has your wife's A lasted before it was exposed at her work.
your sit is like mine but my W does not know that i know.......
Did you approach your W with evidence or just your findings.
I want this to be exposed but thinking how it should be done.... <hr /></blockquote>Sorry, I never anwered your question: It went on at work for about 3 months in total before it was exposed at work.

I found out there was something on a Monday morning, by Monday night, she knew everything I knew, which was not alot, but enough. I was on a business trip from Friday to Sunday. Came back Sunday afternoon and everything was fine. Monday, I noticed some things in the house that did not seem normal. I did not give it too much thought, but stuff just kept hitting me in the face, until I went into a full search mode for clues. I never suspected NOTHING. I ended up going through the garbage in the garage. Found the makings of a dinner for two in a bag on the bottom of the garbage can. Empty wine bottle, not from our collection, shrimp tails, etc... Then things started to hit me from when I called her Saturday Night from the hotel and when I got home on Sunday. Found a male co-workers phone number on the call display from Sunday Morning before I got home, so I had a pretty good idea of who was there. By Monday Night she knew everything I knew, and I got a ton of lies with it. I met with the OM the next day for lunch. I still did not know there was an A, but suspected it. They had a story cooked up, and it was possible.

As time went, there were more clues that this was bigger then they were telling me. Then I caught her on a pay phone three weeks later at a grocery store. She said she was calling me. She has a cell phone. She said her battery was dead. I asked to see it and she got all huffy that I have to start to believe in her and no this is stupid, I was being stupid and she would not show it to me. I stormed out of the store and came back in while she was at the cash. I took her purse and the phone. Fully charged battery. I always knew, but now I KNEW, no doubts. We went home, and I said I had to go for a walk to clear my head. She called the OM from our home (I had the phone bugged). Nothing conclusive came from it other then she was on the pay phone with him and that they were friends, but that I knew already. If I would have stayed gone longer, I would have found out more, but I came back and they hung up, and she told me she called him as she thought I was going to call him.

He even came to our home that night to convince me there was nothing. I dared not go near him as I was pretty freaked out and thought I would lose control. Him coming to our home did confuse me. Why would he come? If there was something really going on the last place the OM would go to is my house while he knows I am there totally pissed off. On top of that I am much bigger and have a ton of self-defence courses under my belt, he knows all that. It confused me totally. I told him to leave and told him that I requested that my W no longer see him other then at the office. She agreed and he agreed. Previous to the pay phone inncedent, I told my W they could still be friends. A few days later, I caught a 3+ hour phone conversation between them that laid it all out. Full A. He was trying to convince her to stay with him in the A. She was scared of losing me, and broke it off the day after the pay phone thing. He was not letting go. He had all kinds of plans on how to keep it going without being caught. It was obvious that she was having trouble breaking it off. She was deep in the fog.

So that in a nutshell is my story of how I found out. It took one month from when I found something to the phone conversation which told me almost everything. My W basically knew what I knew as I found it, because I would ask her. I basically interogated her everynight. One week later she wrote me a letter telling me everything I did not know.

what if the om is not married his wife divorce him. and he lives with his parents. and my wife is in the deep fog the affair is still going on after i found out. she still lies would not tell me anything. the om works with her iam going to tell her job.

Deeppain,

Before you let on to your wife that you know about it, hire a private investigator to get some photographic evidence of the A. It's important to get photographic evidence before she knows that you know because they will start getting really secretive and careful. Then when you confront her get ready to hear some of the craziest, wildest lies you ever heard. After confronting her with all the other evidence and listening to all her crazy excuses, bring out the pictures. If I had got photos before my wife found out that I knew about her A it would have saved me months of fights and hard times.

Thanks everyone for posting......

PTM, that was interesting and i hope my sit. can come out as good as yours.....

Can you please tell me how you bugged your phone line, I know they talk on my home phone.....

Thanks.
Deeppain

Deeppain,

I bought mine at a Spy Store. Every city has them or you can get them on the internet. Check in your local yellow pages or do a search on spy equipement.

The one I have, looks like a reglular tape recorder, but has a phone wire attached. You just plug into the wall and it only goes on when the phone is in use. I think it will do 10 hours per tape side. There are different ones out there. Features I would suggest include an A/C plug so the batteries do not run out, long playing, and only goes on when the phone is in use.

I did it for about three weeks and there was nothing. In fact, I thought I would give it up at one point as there was nothing, but patience paid off in the end.

Just becareful as it is illeagal to do it some areas, even if it is your own home. Of course I do not have to tell that for this to work, secrecy is a must. That means do not tell anyone, and make sure it is very well hidden but in a place that you can get at it regularly.

When my W found out about it, she was pissed, but judging what she did, she got over it really fast. She eventually understood that she pushed me to do that. We listened to the tape together, that was D-Day. All I knew was that they had a really long converstation, but did not know what was on it. She confessed everything when she knew I taped that conversation, before we listened to it. Everything I got from her before that was lies, lies, and more lies. The only truthful info I got from her before that is when she was cornered like a rat.

In our case, me knowing everything changed everything. She confessed what I did not know a week later in a letter. She was too ashamed to tell me to my face. That was OK, I understood that.

A word of caution, hearing all this straight from the horses mouth is really emotionally hard. I mean really hard. I think I was a lucky one as she did break it off a few days earlier, but she was not over him by a long shot. Even though she kept telling the OM that it has to stop because she was scared her life would be ruined, she also did not say that she did not like him, on the contrary there were many terms of endearments exchanged. The realistic side of her knew it had to end(this is where I am lucky) but the emotional side did not at all want to give him up. I write that as I made it sound so cut and dry earlier. It was not, but true recovery began there. It does not happen that way for everyone. I truly hope it does for you.

You may have to win her back, so be ready to Plan A.

thanks PTM,
I just hope the marriage is not over...
I just got to figure this out....
Thanks.
Flyer

Here is a link to an online spy store. I have not used them, but a friend did, and said their service was good. http://www.thespystore.com/telephonerecorder-page1.htm

Get all of the evidence you can. If I had it to do over, I would have hired a private investigator. It would have saved me plenty of time, and stopped the A much quicker. If you suspect they have contact over the web, there are many good Keylogger programs, which you can install without them knowing it. You can even monitor some of them from a remote computer.

Get all of the evidence you can, within a reasonable amount of time, and when you confront, use only copies, making sure the originals are safely stored where WS cannot get to them.

I found MB well after my own DDay, and things would have gone much better for me if I had known about it in advance and been better prepared. Knowing about the Fog, Plan A, LoveBusters, and all of that would have made things much smoother and more efficient.

There is a tremendous amount of solace and sage advice on these forums, and you have done yourself a huge favor by coming here. Become intimately familiar with Plan A and how to confront in a controlled and intelligent manner, and you may be pleasantly surprised with how things go.

Good luck to you!

Deeppain,

I concur 100% with Shattered Dreams. Everything he wrote. Truth, evidence, protect it (you just do not know when you are going to need it). Plan A.

I have read so many stories here. The Plans seem to really work. It worked for me. Really get to understand the fog.

Thanks Shattered Dreams and PTM.....

I am glag that i am not alone.....
I am planning to expose the affair to W and I just got to figure out how. A few years ago i confronted her due to cell hone calls at very odd times and to always the same number and she just freaked and wanted a D.....

I want to get away from that and show hard proof....

Thanks.
Deeppain

Deeppain,

I think to get evidence does many things. Knowlage is power as they say. At the very least it will give you the knowlage to know how to proceed. To see the big picture.

What do you know about the OM?

Does your W drive? Does she have her own car?

Other then on this board, have you confided this with anyone else?

What do you know about the OM?
He is a co-worker and he is married with kids...

Does your W drive? Does she have her own car?
Yes and has her own car.....

Other then on this board, have you confided this with anyone else?
On other person, to give me support....

I have not said this to anyone due to, worried to get the wrong advise and make matters worse.

Thanks
deeppain

Hi Deeppain,

I feel for you. I was really torn up inside knowing, but not knowing all. Not knowing where to go or what to do next. Not be able to get the answers I needed to at least try to figure out the next step.

Here are some of the things I did, or at least considerd doing. I did alot of them.

-Phone recorder
-Bugged the house (he was there often when I was gone)
-Put a voice activated voice recorder under the car seat or somewhere where she cannot find it.
-Parked near the office to see if they went anywhere together especially during lunch or when she had to "work late".
-Borrow a friends car to tail them.
-Hiring a PI
-hiding a voice recorder in her purse. This is a scary one as you could get caught easily.
-GPS device attached to the car. Internet spy stores have them.
-Computer Spy Ware
-checking her voice mail at work and cell phone. I did this one. I knew her cell passcode already so that was easy. I got her office voice mail passcode, by telling her on a Friday that I left her a really cute message on her voice mail at work (I did leave a cute message just after I knew she was gone). She retrieved the message from home, and I just checked last number dialed. You have to have a phone that supports this and that is the phone she will have to use. Most cordless phones with a screen have it. Another note is that some voice mail systems ask you if you want to keep the message as new, some do not. If she does not have a system at work/cell that can put the message back as new or unheard then she will eventually figure it out that someone is checking her messages. The cell phone was easy as it let me resave the message as new.

-go through her stuff, pockets, purse, etc...
-receipts, cell phone, credit cards, bank. I found lots of stuff this way. My W paid for most of the the things they did, as he did not have the money, but I did, how twisted is that. We ate out in restaurants alot, so I never even noticed until I knew something was up. As her credit cards are supplimentary cards of mine, this too was easy. If you see something that looks odd. You can call the bank that issued that card and tell them you want to see the original receipt. This came in handy as once she told me she was going out with two other people. She told me she paid, and they gave her the cash. I got hold of the original receipt and it cleary showed only two meals, and it showed only two customers. They will send it to you in the mail. You can also check points cards.
-you can go through the garbage.

As I am writing all this stuff, I am thinking to myself, I am one sick puppy. I had to know and she was not going to tell me or stop.

All this stuff takes lots of time, and money. I spent over $2k on spy stuff, and I figured the A cost us over $10k if her lost wages were thrown in and their meals together. I told her this once, but I do not rub it in her face.

As you believe that they use your home phone to comunicate this is probably your best option. You could even leave the house at times where you think they will talk, take the kids and give them all the time they need to get the answers you need.

I asked you if you have confided in someone else as I know that there were times where my close friend talked me down a little. I almost did some really stupid stuff that I would have regretted and he hammered that point home. I did do some stupid things, but not the really stupid stuff.

I do not have all the answers on what to do, Deeppain, I am just trying to relate my experiance and maybe that might help you to form your decisions. Take what you like and toss the rest.

One thing is for sure, you can not live your entire life in this kind of "deep pain".

Your not a sick puppy PTM....
You just want the truth like I do.....

I really happy that you are giving me your thoughts, it helps.....thank you.....

Whe the OM's W found out about the A, did she want to confront your W. Some women when they find out would want to tear the OW apart for having an A with their H....
I wonder if this will happen to W.....

Thanks.
Deeppain

Hi Deeppain,

The OM's W did call my W after I gave her the letter and tapes. The next day she called my W at work. She wanted to confirm a couple of things. My W appologized profusely. She did not accept nor did she reject the apology. That is the last we have ever heard from them and that was last August.

I on the other hand wanted to rip the guy appart. I threatened him both verbally and in writing. Not my smartest move. I wrote him an e-mail citing all the stuff he did, that he was a vile human being, and that he had an outstanding invoice with me that I was going to collect on it. He recieved that e-mail when he got to his desk just after me screaming at him in the parking lot. My W stayed in the office for a couple more hours to clean up her desk etc. She asked me what I wrote. He would not even look at her that morning, but told her that he did get an e-mail from me, but would not show it to her. She told me was petrified. She did not like that. I showed my W the e-mail that afternoon as she wanted to see it. In the end I did nothing, nor will I. I saw him the Monday morning after the Saturday that I found out everything in the parking lot in front of their office, after I heard him pleading for 3 hours with my W to keep the affair alive. I was not waiting for him but for my W as she was quitting. I did drive up to him and threatened him. I felt myself losing control and drove away. Honestly, I cried 1 min. later in the car. I was shaking. I wanted to hurt him so badly, and I had a severe internal battle within myself. I knew it was wrong to do so, but still wanted to.

It was not because he had relations with my W. My W was half responsible for that. He obviously was not my favorite person in the world, but it was more of what he did to keep it alive. This info did not come from my W, it came from the tapes, his words. In the end the reality is that he was in a fog as well.

Deeppain, if you would like an e-mail of the letter I sent his wife as a sample, you can e-mail at bill0021@hotmail.com and I will send it to you.

PTM.... I can so identify with your feelings.... although I never put myself in a position to be face to face, the same emotions coarsed through my veins.

Deep... something else to consider is as simple as going through your WW's pockets, jackets, etc. Her purse would be an easy target, as well. The telephone recorder was the key in my success. One other note. Depending on where you live, some of the newer wireless telephone systems (in home) can be used quite a ways from your residence. I caught a few calls by going "near home" at unexpected times, and when the phone was "in use" just push the button to include yourself in on the "conference" you just created. Remember to shut your car off, radio off, cell phone off and have no giveaway noises to give you away. I parked on the street behind my house and went unnoticed for about 2 weeks. My W wondered where the "other" phone went, and I just shrugged and "wondered" with her. You can interchange the phones every other day or so, and keep a fresh battery. That cost me NOTHING.

Also, listen to her VERY carefully when you interact with her. My WW occasionally threw up "clues" conversationally that gave me reason to look further into something she said. I didn't realize they were clues until after the fact, due to the fact I wasn't REALLY paying attention to some things she said.

Other than some time missed at work, I spent very little in my own detective work. Be creative, but get the evidence you need in the next 2-3 weeks, because every day the A goes on, the deeper the FOG will become.

One other note. Read and understand the FOG to the best of your ability. It will turn your W into someone you do not know, and cannot understand. The more you learn about a "proper" and effective confrontation will hopefully pop your W out of the fog more quickly than I was able to. And be prepared for setback, and protect yourself against LB and Disrespectful Judgements, because if you are NORMAL (LOL) those will come to the tip of your tongue much more quickly than the MB words and way to handle yourself. Trust me on that!!!

Time is of the essence for you, so proceed with premeditated haste, and you will hopefully find yourself in recovery soon.

Thank you Shattered dreams.....

I am gathering clues and she does things to upset me.....
She took a photo out of my wallet that she gave me when we were going out and it said " to My love, love forever " on the back.. That really hurt me that I ended up approaching her and asking her why she took it when i was looking at that phot a few hours earlier and I know it was their....she kept denying it and I I just replied that was cruel!!!!.
I know she took it b/c she would of made a big issue of it, I guess she was shocked i noticed....
We did not take to each other much this weekend.....

Thanks
Deep Pain