Good day

I have being married for 26 years. I love my wife and if I had to do it all over again I wouldn’t change a thing. Unfortunately we have a problem in regards to sex (the lack of it). Over the last 5 years I would say that time in the bedroom has diminished to not more than twice a month. My wife says she is not interested in sex as much as I am. I find myself amusing myself on average of about 5 times a week. We have had several arguments about her lack of interest in sex and not wanting to help me relive myself. Does anyone out there have a problem like this if so what have you done for a compromise? I don’t want to go anywhere else. Am I selfish in asking her for 10 minutes of her time now and again or should I just forget it and continue with man’s best past time masturbation.

Thanks

Chris

I certainly have a problem with this. On the emotional needs survey, I ranked sex as m #1 need, and the wife ranked it as her #10.

Wish I could help with this, but Im just as puzzled as you are.

I think you've pretty much outlined a big part of your problem. The way you describe sex with your wife it really isn't about you and her engaging in something pleasurable together but rather about you reliving yourself. You've also pretty much guaranteed her lack of enjoyment in the act by maintaining that you'll only take ten minutes of her time.

I think the majority of married couples in the world experience something akin to what you are experiencing. Generally speaking men have a much higher sex drive than women. Given that reality sex can easily become a source of contention between spouses. Fortunately Dr.Harley has written about this question extensively and you can find most of that in this web site. I personally think Dr.Harley is right on the money with his philosophy so I highly recommend you take the time to read his stuff. Basically you want your wife to do something for you that she isn't as interested in as you. As long as you make it a point to do the kind of things that she really likes on a regular basis, even if it's stuff you don't want to do, you'll find your wife much more agreeable when it comes time for your interests. Dr.Harley goes into detail about this and does a pretty good job of quantifing this into something you can actually monitor and track. I found his book "His Needs, Her Needs" to be very helpful in understanding this dynamic in a marriage.

Welcome to MB, Chris. Wish it could have been under better circumstances.

Look, in any kind of a relationship, be it employer-employee, vendor-customer, husband-wife, parties do things for each other. They do things for the other party not because it makes them feel good, but because it fulfills the needs of the other party.

It is perfectly OK that you have certain needs which she is not too comfortable fulfilling. You are different individuals, so it is perfectly natural that you have different needs. It is perfectly OK for her not to be comfortable fulfilling those needs for her sake. She does not have to understand, nor even agree with, your need for sex. However, just because she does not feel like fulfilling does not mean that she should not fulfill it.

Your W should fulfill your needs not because she feels like doing I, but because it is your need that she should fulfill. If it makes you happy, than she should do it. Yes, it is a chore for her. So what?

She needs to come up with a better explanation then that she does not feel like it. As an employee, sometimes I don’t feel like going to work. Sometimes I don’t feel like paying my vendors. Sometimes I don’t feel like doing what my clients ask me to do. Sometimes I don’t feel like helping my buddy move his apartment. But you know what? I do it, because that’s the part of being in a relationship. Doing things for other people or parties that you don’t always feel like doing.

Her job in a spousal relation is to fulfill your needs, and your job is to fulfill her needs. What’s so tough about that concept?

Broom, I understand that you view his posting as pretty offensive, but I think that you misunderstood his posting.

By this posting he does not say: "I want my wife to be ready to pleasure me for ten minutes, to heck with her pleasure."

By this posting he means to say: "I want to make love to my wife for an hour. But I am very saddened to acknowledge that she has very little interest in sex. I want it so bad, that in order not to impinge on her valuable time, I am willing to cut it back to 20 minutes. Heck, I want it so bad, that I'll promise to be keep it even shorter, something like 10 minutes. Yes, I'd love to have sex with her for hours on end, but I am at the point where I'd be happy even with 10 minutes ad with minimal participation on her part."

I don't find his post offensive, rather I just think that his attitude regarding sex is adding to his frustration. To be honest I don't see your point of view to be much better. Certainly Dr. Harley's philosophy is founded on the notion of reciprocity, but taking the stance that sex is solely an obligation your spouse must meet won't improve his situation. Dr. Harley's notion is that a truly happy spouse who's needs are being met within the relationship will be happy to meet their partner's needs. But this sense of reciprocity doesn't rest on marital obligation, but rather on the fact that their needs are being met.

It is possible that the original poster is meeting all of his wife's needs and she refuses to met his need for sex, but my impression is that his wife's needs aren't being fully met and that is the reason for her lack of willing reciprocity. It seems to me that identifying each others needs, eliminating love busters, and meeting those needs would be the best way to go about rectifying this situation.

Your wife could be me. I no longer have sex with my husband. He is completely unwilling to even try and fulfill my #1 emotional need, conversation. He feels like a complete stranger to me and I can't have sex with a stranger. My guess is that your wife's #1 emotional need is not being met.

Maybe. I don't know. I didn't get that impression.

I hope that Chris comes back and sheds light on this problem some.

Am I selfish in asking her for 10 minutes of her time now and again or should I just forget it and continue with man’s best past time masturbation.
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if she does not have an issue w/ you masturbating I'd stick w/ that........because asking for 10 minutes of her time so you can relieve yourself sounds pretty nasty and unsexy and will probably just build resentment for her.

or maybe you could work something else out.....some way that she can be enthusiastic about a quickie or hand job.

i am curious... why would you even want her help "relieving yourself" if she is not interested?


is there any chance that your attitude toward sex is what turns her off....the fact that it seems to more about reliving yourself than a mutually satisfying encounter?
that would turn me off.

Sex provided as an obligation or a chore is not very satisfying anyway, and ends up building up resentment on both sides. It may sound like it is better than nothing, but in my experience, it really isn't.

Sex provided as an obligation or a chore is not very satisfying anyway, and ends up building up resentment on both sides. It may sound like it is better than nothing, but in my experience, it really isn't

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i agree.

but, sex as a favor can be a little different...i can enthusiastically provide my H w/ a quickie or some form of sex and be quite happy about it even if i am not interested in sex/orgasm for myself at the moment......but, for this to happen our relationship needs to be in a good place..... i need to know that he respects and appreciates me.......and that he CAN control himself and doesn't NEED to releive himself everytime he feels an urge.

that's a real turn off.

I agree!

I'm currently in a situation myself with somewhat of a sexless/loveless (at least on one side) marriage.

Inasmuch as the male part of me wouldn't mind "favor sex" or "pity sex" or any other type of non-emotionally involved sex, my "female side" doesn't really like the idea.

My wife and I are currently having issues with her not being "in love" with me anymore. I had told her not to say or do anything that she didn't mean. I don't want her to say or do something just to "be nice" to me. This includes saying "I love you", sex or intimacy of any kind. As much as it hurts not to hear the words or receive the intimacy, I would rather know they're genuine than fake.

When I read the first post where "twice a month" was mentioned, I thought "I wish". I'd LOVE 2-3 times a week. But, becuase my drive is so much higher than hers and her willingness, I feel like I need to relieve myself sometimes. I realize that women can't just "turn it on/off" like a man can, but It's tough to suffer though urges and passing desires without release.

There are so many times I've gone to sleep disappointed at night because I was "promised" sex and didn't get it. "Promised" defined as, her mentioning the possibility at some point during the day. For a man, that creates anticipation and we see it at the same level as a "promise" and become very disappointed, rejected and hurt when it's not followed through. I know I personally would end up feeling like she doesn't care or doesn't find me attractive.

Heck, literally Sunday night it happened to me. Even though my wife currently isn't "in love" with me, she had mentioned at the dinner table about possibly having sex that night. I had asked her whether she'd mean it and was able to get from her that it would be "appreciation sex" for everything that I've been doing and helping out with that I hadn't before. Well, I guess I hadn't learned from experience, but the anticipation made it feel like a promise to me and that night I went to sleep disappointed, rejected and hurt once again. Even though we're working on things, it seems like very little is changing sometimes.

I'm sorry if I hijacked this thread, I just wanted to add my experience. I'm finding out that low sex drive in women is very common and it's not high on women's EN list. Heck, my wife rates playing ping pong and a few other things higher than sex. Tell me that isn't discouraging.

I am a woman and my #1 need from my spouse is physical intimacy and he happens to be the one with the low sex drive. It increased for a period of time, but now it is right back to nothing again. No porn, no lust or masturbation issues on his part. He just doesn't have a drive and it is very hard not to feel resentful. Right now I feel hurt and unloved. He is a good husband, helpful, we talk, do things together, share kisses, but he just doesn't care much about sex.

I just don't understand?

tuliplover

Has he ruled out a medical problem as the cause of his low libido? Has he had his testosterone level checked?

Beyond all that, even if his drive is low, is he willing to help meet your needs ... um... one way or another?

As you'll see if you read a lot of posts around here, lack of sex is a big problem (mostly for us men), but lack of caring by the lower drive spouse probably causes more damage.

I agree with AG and somewhat agree with Nia with the exception that I guess I DO feel obliged to meet my husbands needs whenever he needs them met and I'd be pretty offended if he didn't view my needs with the same priority and sense of urgency.

The difference is attitude. I CHOOSE to be married and I choose to want an intimate marriage and I want my husband to be in love with me.

So if that means my schedual is sometimes disrupted or I am asked for affection or sex at a time when it wasn't strictly the FIRST thing on my mind...well..why exactly is that such a big deal?

I mean it isn't like I have never put off the kids and housework and whatever else for 20 or 30 min when I get a phone call unexpectedly. I don't develope a big bunch of resentment that someone sought me out for conversation [maybe because conversation is high ranking on my OWN priority list?].

I do think that selfishness is at the ROOT of the issue for most of the men and women who are reluctant. There is a sense of entitlement there...that they shouldn't have to do more than they feel like doing...or that they are free to wait UNTIL they feel like it before they do...and because it's low on their list that feeling rarely if ever comes.

And that their spouse should just suck it up and stop having needs that are inconvenient.

Unless a person is actually AVERTED to sex it shouldn't be any more of a problem to have more sex than your personal drive would have you seek out than it would to do anything else and frankly if it were anything BUT sex [or possibly AS related] it would be a no brainer.

Nia with the exception that I guess I DO feel obliged to meet my husbands needs whenever he needs them met and I'd be pretty offended if he didn't view my needs with the same priority and sense of urgency.

_______________________

interesting, noodle.
i pretty much FEEL the same way... but i do struggle w/ that feeling. there is something about it that leaves me questioning myself and my intent......am i being controlling? is this co-dependence?
should we be both pursuing more self-soothing at these times?

you may not have an issue w/ that at all, but i am just finding out that my H has an addictive personality and worry that my if H has addiction issues that must mean that i am an enabler/co-dependent.

also, i know plenty of people who do not seem to struggle w communication about sex the way H and i have and they are very open and very content w/ allowing each other separate sex-lives via masturbation.
so, i guess it works for some people.

Noodle: I certainly appreciate your attitude on this topic.

I actually wonder if you find that your husband's requests are surprisingly reasonable given that he has no need to be obsessed with whether his needs will be met. I would think that a spouse in his position might return the favor (in part) by being more sensitive to whether you are tired/preocuppied. It seems to make sense that it could work that way.

I guess what I don't understand is why, even if someone has a low physical libido, man or woman, they cannot respond with their other feelings for their mate. You can't just wait for your hormones to show up and take you for a ride.

I wonder if, with sex, we tend to get lazy and a bit judgemental of our spouses without examining what we are really doing or not doing to make things better.

Why not have fun with a seduction and make efforts to fill all of our spouse's senses with sight, smell, touch, taste, hearing?

Set the stage for optimum results and just see what happens? Are we so afraid that to pull out all the stops and be rejected, we would fall harder?

Even if your spouse doesn't orgasm, the experience and the effort is touching and meaningful and associated with pleasure because so many of the other senses have had their due.

Nothing wrong with this at all - and it should be a mutual effort.

In my cynical opinion though, the problem with this advice in many of the situations people face here is that this too ends up being completely one-sided. The sexually neglected spouse now feels the burden to put on a major broadway production to have their need met. The other spouse may or may not respond. Ideally they would reciprocate such grand efforts - but, pardon the cynicism - if things are one-sided already, they will likely continue to be.

Also, the spouse who already feels sexually neglected hears advice like this and it smacks a little of "blame the victim" mentality. Lousy sex life? You must be to blame! You must not be putting enough effort into getting your spouse in the mood, meeting all their emotional needs first, etc. The problem is YOU. You haven't fulfilled all the obligations and pre-requisites". Where is the expectation of meeting ech other half-way? The whole concept of mutuality (is that actually a word?) gets tossed out the window with advice like this.

This kind of simplistic advice probably works wonders in healthy, open, honest, mutually fulfilling relationships where both partners are conscientious in their efforts. I'm not sure it really helps in the sad pathological marital situations that often confront here. Not that it shouldn't be tried! But if mutuality is missing, it is just kicking the can down the road. The underlying issue still needs to be solved before something like this will work.

It is,



I'm sorry but no matter what I MAY try to incorporate into my M regarding SF nothing will ever get my W to meet me half-way. I could go on and on as to why this will never happen but my situation might not be releveant to the sich of others. In many a case and in my case the burden in the M regarding the lack of SF falls heavily on my shoulders. My W states she is making attempts to meet my needs as often is possible for her at this time.



Now due to this lopsided burden I don't look at this type of advice as a need to BLAME anyone but rather a way to optimize the best possible outcome. "What can I do to optimize my chances of having my needs met". Which means the burden falls on me to be an extremely attractive and healthy marriage partner. I believe due to certain circumstances we all fall short on this to some extent. We all have our warts or incompatibilities in our M.

In order for this lack of mutuality to be solved there has to be acceptance from our partner. But what if the partner relays that they are doing all they can? What then? I can't force my W to change or force her to provide SF more often. The best I can do is work hard at myself to be attractive to her in hopes that that will make her WANT to make things a little less lopsided.

MrAlias - I don't disagree. My screen name indicates my acceptance that, after years of trying to make it not so, at least in my M, things are the way they are and I don't actually expect things to change nor do I expect my W to meet me halfway either. But that has come at a cost.

I did take it all on my shoulders and tried the broadway productions, tried to be the ideal marriage partner etc. thinking this would "earn" my having my needs met. HA! (gotta find that No More Mr. Nice Guy book)

But I reached a point where there was no real return on this emotional investment. I could feel it coming on and I remember quite clearly the feeling when my heart slammed shut. It just wasn't worth it any more.

I'm not recommending this for anybody else - its a bad spot to be in. The point I was trying to make is that if the starting point is a one-way relationship the the prognosis is not good - unless you are able to be comfortable shifting your expectations to an extremely low level and are able to tolerate the uneven relationship.

I do take it all on my shoulders and am trying to do the broadway productions, I am trying to be the ideal marriage partner, etc. thinking this is who I want to be. Granted it isn't giving me exactly what I want but I do get a slice of what I'd hoped for and for me it keeps me invested in the R.

This is very situational, of course. I mean if you are doing all that work and don't ever get anything for your efforts then the R probably isn't worth it and then you have a decision to make.

You see for me my W gets a lot of credit for all the other things she does for me and for our family. She's kind and upbeat most of the time and I like being with her. She's remorseful and aplogetic when she knows she's hurt me. She's got a good heart.

If someone, and maybe this is you, has a partner that isn't meeting hardly any important ENs and is a pain to be around ... well I would suggest to someone who's done all the work you've stated you've done that maybe it's time to think about doing something else, maybe doing a 180 or initiating a Plan B or maybe ending the R.

Guys this is not a complicated issue.

Spouse 1 has a need for sex.

Spouse 2 can either stop what they are doing and have some sex or ...not.

Those are the options.

Sex is sex..unless we have a gourmet evening [or afternoon or shower or...] planned we are talking about roughly 30 min of your day.

Let's look at what other things a person does every day with that same amount of time.

Channel surf?

Take a shower?

Drive to the store?

I have spent MORE than that amount of time on THIS forum today.

There is no reason why a person could not reasonably meet that need every single day IF THEY WERE WILLING TO.

It's the UNWILLINGNESS to have sex when they don't feel aroused that is the core issue.

Generally speaking a person with LOW libido is not going to magically become aroused because a few candles got lit...that sort of thing is icing on a cake already baked and ready to go.

Meeting that persons needs won't create arousal either...if you meet their needs they might feel good about you IN GENERAL...maybe even so much so they'd like to meet your needs theoretically...but not in a way that is inconvenient.

This is a SELFISH frame of mind.

If a person chooses to be available to meet the need for SF when the need exists and to stop struggling and foot dragging and fighting...they are more likely to BECOME aroused and to appreciate the niceties like candles et all.

They are using their strength to pull away and wondering why they feel so distant.

The first step in this issue is for the person who is reluctant to choose to stop being reluctant because their unwilling spirit is damaging a relationship they value.

Use their strength to draw closer instead. Feelings follow actions...the choices that we make determine our perceptions.

I don't appreciate 3 am wake up calls but if one of my children started crying there is no question that I will be hauling my kiester out of bed to tend to them because I OWN my role as their caregiver and assume responsibility for the tasks involved in the job.

Meeting your spouses needs is not OPTIONAL if you want to have a thriving marriage.

You reap what you sow either way so figure out what you value and invest in it.

Well said. Right to the core of the issue.

It is funny how there seems to be a double standard for ENs.
For example, Substitute Financial Support or Conversation or any of the others for SF in most of the threads like this one and both the problem and the recommended solutions sound almost comical.

"I want to have Conversation every day but she only wants it twice a month"

"Maybe if you meet all her ENs first she'll be more willing to meet your need for Conversation"

Oh boy - now I'm going to have a hard time reading threads without making those substitutions... like adding the words "in bed" after reading a fortune cookie

Precisely IIWII.

A person who concluded that they only felt like going to work twice a month would be fired.

A person who was only willing to speak to their spouse twice a month or under very specific circumstances would be accused of spousal neglect...even three tmes a week would STILL be neglectfull.

Telling the spouse whose needs are going unmet to just try harder is absurd and cruel imo.

Instead encourage them to hold their spouse ACCOUNTABLE for their decision to withdraw from the marriage and settle into freeloading on that issue [aka I'll do it when I feel like it].

I am in a marriage relationship for the past 15 years. I have succumbed to my husbands lack of sex drive over the years because I didn't want to end the marriage. Now it's coming back to bite me. Recently in one of my depressed modes I made contact with an ex boyfriend and by just talking over the phone I realized "big time" that I am so unfufilled sexually that it's driving me crazy. I have spoken to my husband about my needs but it's almost as if he doesn't want to hear me or doesn't want to do the things that would satisfy me sexually.I enjoy oral sex but he does not, I would think it would be a good trade off give his lack of libido. Nice guy but driving me crazy

How in the world would someone know just from his post whether or not he is meeting his wifes SF needs?

Sometimes the people that give advice on here make a LOT of assumptions, maybe too much.

Noodle, how exactly do you hold them accountable for withdrawing? It sounds good, just don't see how.

I have no desire for sex with my husband. Had a hysterectomy, on HRT, had hormone levels checked, getting a second opinion with a new doctor. It feels like a chore, he has a higher sex drive than me. I told him a few months back that I loved him but was not in love anymore and think this is why I have no desire. There is no spark, no romance, it's all the same routine...boring.... Women should not have to "relieve" or fulfill their H needs because it makes them happy, it's like a chore if we are not into it.

I have the same issues...Great Husband in most ways... Love him immensely- but I need SF...frequently- and he just does not have the same drive...One other thing I've noticed: when he is tired, stressed, etc. --No sex, uh-uh- ain't happening..It's the opposite for me- when I'm stressed, or frustrated- I need it more- it helps me to relax and to feel closer to him...so usually ends up- when I need it most- he wants it the least... dilemma... often times- I've tried avoiding SF requests, initiation, etc. when I am stressed; try to be in a calmer more loving mood- tell him I want him because I love him, want to be intimately close...sometimes that works- often things remain the same... The flip side-- I NEVER turn him down when he initiates and often I even offer him "alternative" SF methods ( oral, usually)---which he NEVER turns down even if he doesn't feel "in the mood" for SF/love-making... and he almost NEVER returns the favor in any way...sometimes that get s me very flustered; feel like I am doing ALL the giving, and getting nada in return...I've seriously been trying to request less and less from him-- stop offering him BJ's, and start saying "No" sometimes...see if any of that registers... But I want and need his SF attention so much-that I find that denial of him (and ultimately myself)is danged near impossible for me to accomplish...then comes the "Loving by Choice" concept- I really try to keep that in mind, too- and still do for him, regardless..... but sometimes... I just want to have MY needs met, you know?

Here is my 2 cents.

To me, one of the key factors in marriage is intimacy...
Without intimacy in a marriage, it is just 2 people living together. I know, I am living it.
Life today pulls away at intimacy. Think about how much affect work, health, money, etc have on it. Intimacy has to remain important for the marriage to last.
There are so many levels intimacy.
It can be anything from a warm smile or chuckle to the big O.

When the selfishness of one person outweighs the intimacy needs of the marriage, the marriage is on a downward slope.

Like you, I ask, what happens in a marriage when a woman decides she does not want to be intimate?
Masturbation releases the physical pressure but does nothing for the real problem.
What happened in your marriage? I suggest looking into what was happening at that time.

4myself, I don't see in your post that you guys have actually sat down and discussed your ENs. Have you? If he's a great guy otherwise, sounds like he'd be willing to delve into your marriage a little, at least for your sake. Ask him to fill out the questionaires, as just a stage in your marriage - do NOT tell him that it in any way is tied to your feelings about set, or he will back off. The issue of sex can come up at a later date, after you've worked on some other issues, like O&H.

You may find that something in his past is affecting his drive. And you can help him work through it, once you know what it is. If you can get him in a happier place, your marriage will improve in many ways. Everyone has issues; some choose not to address them, but may be grateful for their SO helping them to get there, if it brings some peace.

You may find that it is a miscommunication of some sort. Maybe at one point, you said something that he took as a slam, and he's been reticent ever since. My husband told me 30 years ago (when I was pretty) that if I ever got fat, he'd divorce me. He wasn't serious, and he promptly forgot he said it, but as I age and get heavier, it is a constant, daily concern for me. To him, it's a non-issue. And we just this year discussed it.

You may find there is a medical reason; if he knows your eagerness, he may be willing to get checked out. I know that my H, at 54, has issues he didn't have at 30. But honestly, I'd look into it. There are all kinds of reasons for low drive based on chemicals, diet, etc., and the person doesn't even realize it's happening.

You may find he doesn't realize the benefit or even need for pleasing the woman. His father or brother(s) may have never taught him about that. Perhaps you can help him learn a whole new world. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Basically, I guess, I'm just advocating communication.

This is a dangerous situation because the resentment over feeling neglected and giving more than getting can build up and cause a major problem.

In my situation there are many other serious issues in my M (no point really in listing all that here) but frequency of sex was one of them. As part of MC my W agreed to a schedule - which I had reservations about. I didn't want "duty sex". But MC recommended that we try this at least to get back on track. Looking back I think this was a mistake. I couldn't get it out of my head that this was simply an obligation being checked off (and that's pretty much how it was done on her side) so eventually the whole thing broke down.

Eventually other problems in the M overtook the sex issue but between those problems and the disaster of duty sex I completely lost all desire for my W. I simply couldn't put my needs at her mercy any more. I would never have believed with my strong sex drive that this could happen - but it did. Some mental scale inside me tipped on the side of self-protection over desire and a massive wall went up.

It has been over two years since we have had sex - or even slept in the same room. I feel completely stuck - not knowing how to go forward, and certainly unwilling to go back. I can't envision any solution.

The point of all that being - do try to find a way to deal with this now before the resentment inside you builds up to catastrophic levels.

Okay. I am totally new here, but need advise bad. I will try to make this as short as possible, but I dont know where else to turn. I have been married going into our 14th year. I love my husband with all of my heart and am sure he loves me. We have been thru a lot the last several years. Yes, I use to be a terrible wife. I took him for grantid for a lot of years, assuming that no matter what he would always be there and always want sexual relations no matter what. I had absolutly no sexual desire unless he initiated. Well, that use to be true. I am 36 and he just turned 40. Three years ago I had a stupid moment and made a big mistake with a job and ended up having to serve a year away from him and my family. I had a whole year to sit and think about my life and realized how stupid I was. I had everything. Yes, he stood by me thru it all and is still beside me. However, when I got home, things have changed. While I was gone he also went thru the death of his mother as well and had to take care of our daughter financially by himself. Yes, I put him thru it. Now, I want sex all of the time and he says he has no desire. He said that he had to go a year without having sex and now he could care less about it. Can this be true. He did not have an intimate affair while I was gone, yes he talked to a girl (friend) and they both say nothing happened. He loves me very much, even she told me that. Anyway, I dont know what to do. I feel so awful and just want to know if I should just give him time and let him know that I am here, like he was and is there for me? We have a great relationship other than this area. We get along, cuddle, kiss, hold hands, but only have sex about once every 3 weeks. Please help me understand what is going on. I dont want to accuse him if it really could just be stress, etc.

IMHO

I think this is one of the most complex issues to deal with in marriage due to the number of aspects to it. People have beliefs of how SF should be in a marriage that are difficult to change. They may be based on morals or bad experiences in past relationships or in childhood. There is also the aspect of control of one's body and the different things people engage in when having SF. A particular act that is no big deal for one person may be quite a big deal for the other spouse.

Another problem is limited access to the EN. If one person desires more conversation they can talk to friends or family members until the spouse, hopefully, comes around. If it's RC you can again do things with friends and family while you are working on that issue in the marriage. If it's financial support you can get a nother or better job yourself. If you employ this same principle with SF you quickly encounter problems!!!! ONLY the other spouse can give SF that results in physical and emotional happiness. Nobody else can do it. That makes SF one of the most difficult ENs in my thinking.

I've experienced the mismathed libido issue in my marriage for over two decades. Chris123 didn't say if this problem always existed or if it just got worse in the past 5 years. I would hope that if it was good once he could get back to that point by having his W get a physical and counseling. If it's been bad since the beginning of the relationship then he should get counseling for himself because it will probably never improve. In order to stop being hurt over this issue I have given up on SF ever improving in my marriage. Eliminating the expectation has made it a little easier to bear.

I've read everything I coud find on this issue, made sure I was meeting all of W's ENs, avoiding LB, doing everything I can to make her want me and nothing has helped. It's like some foods. If somebody hates spinach they're not going to start liking it because you washed the walls or brought home flowers. Providing the ENs does make the relationship beter in general but it's no guarantee the resolve Sf issues. SF seems to me to be a more complicated issue than other ENs.

I am also in an emotional state over sex drive, consistancy, en, or just closness. I have pulled back from my husband because my feelings are so hurt that I cannot express yet how much this effects me. I am with you on how complex this issue is in a relationship. I am feeling so hurt by my husbands turning me down for sex that I don't know what to do. I try and meet all of his emotional needs yet the same is happening for me as you. I don't have any answers at all. However. I don't know how long I can go without this level of closness. How are getting there.

The only thing that gets me thru, is that I truly know he loves me. I dont know what is going on (maybe going thru midlife), but he is at least affectionate. I pray that he will once again want me sexually. It is heart breaking when H turns you down, trust me, I know. But, I try not to think about it. I know it is hard, The more he says no, the more you want it. I am thankful that my husband does show affection. It at least gives me hope.

I am a woman and i would say that SR is prolly #10 on my EN quiz, #1 on his. My situation is a little different. Complete hysterectomy at 31, hrt, my hormone levels are out of whack so I have gotten a second and third option to get those in check and of course the fact that after 16 years of marriage, SR is like a routine and is the same ole thing every time. If we (females) are not getting ours, it's not satisfying to us and is difficult to want to do it! And to do it with it feeling like a chore, that's not enticing either!

Very interesting thread here.

I feel I have a lot of resentment built up where SF is concerned. My H has SF higher up on the EN scale then me. He expects or wants me to meet this need, but then refuses to meet my higher ENs. I feel used. I feel the only time he wants to show me affection is when he wants SF.


And yet, that is exactly what I feel is being said to do here. Your H wants SF and as his W it is your responsbility. Okay...and what I am suppose to do about the intimacy I want that is going unfulfilled.

For me, it is very hard to be enthusiastic about SF when I get little affection outside of the bedroom. Don't get me wrong, my H is a great guy and we get along great, but he just is not interested in showing me affection unless it is when he wants SF or SF related. This does not help my desire for SF. My H's idea of romance is lighting a candle before SF...and that isn't even every time.

Isn't this a two way street here?

This IS in fact a two way street - or a double-edged sword!

Look back at your post. Everywhere you have "intimacy" replace it with "SF" and vice-versa.

So you want your H to meet your intimacy needs when his SF needs are not being met, and he wants you to meet his SF needs when your intimacy needs are not being met.

MB works best when both partners buy-in and work the principles together. Can it be done just from one-side? Maybe, but personally I think the odds are greatly against it. Not impossible, and there are a few success stories. But there are a lot more people who feel "used" by the one-sidedness and seeming unfairness of it.

Even when working the MB plan there is a danger of seeing things as "you are only doing X to get Y". This is a minefield. But aren't you already saying that you'd probably be more likely to *want* to fulfill his needs if yours were fulfilled? It may be tacky to speak of it in these terms, but it IS an economic model - hence the "Love Bank".

It is based on give and take. You can't have it both ways. You can't say you don't feel like fulfilling his needs because he hasn't fulfilled yours AND ALSO complain that he's just meeting your needs so you'll meet his.

What happens when you say "I realize you want more SF, but I'm too frustrated on a day to day basis because none of my needs are being met and I can't stop being resentful. A resentful person just doesn't feel like participating in SF. If we were meeting halfway, I'm pretty sure you'd be getting a lot more satisfied in the bedroom, don't you think? Anyway, here's my list of ENs, in case you forgot what they are, and in case you think it would make sense to see if you're meeting any of them."

She could try that, but it does sort of frame things in "you go first" terms. There are 3 possibilities here: 1) she can risk going first, 2) he can risk going first, or 3) they can agree to try to both work at it at the same time. Hopefully when they each see each other making a sincere effort, that will put them on the right track.

You're right, but I get the sense that he isn't hearing her, which is why I suggest at least at first, pointing out that she doesn't feel inclined to participate if he's not listening.

Of course, she can add at the end of that "and now tell me what you think I should be doing, because I certainly want to make sure I'm being the best wife I can be, too."

I'm not sure if ItIsWhatItIs and catperson are referring to me, but I'm going to answer as if you are because I can relate to what you are saying.

I have talked to my H about this.


I have stated much of the above. However, I don't think it is a matter of him wanting more, because I believe I meet his need for SF. I realize it is important to him, his top EN, and to our M. I have explained about me building up resentment because I am trying to meet that need for him, but he will not try to meet my need for affection. I've explained how meeting my need for affection would have a very positive affect on SF for both of us. I have told him what affection is to me...what it looks like, etc. He told me that what I want is a fairytale, guys just aren't that way...funny, he used to be that guy.

And I'm not talking about huge things here...a phone call during the day, an email, a love note on a post-it, make dinner one night so I don't have to, plan a date for us, etc. Am I asking to much?

The last time we talked about it, he said we could stop having sex if I wanted. Do you know how much that hurt me? He would rather stop having SF then try to meet MY need. Doesn't make a person feel very important or special.

And I do feel used or taken for granted when he will show me some type of affection...about 20 minutes before bedtime...and that isn't even every time. How I'm I suppose to feel?

I recommend printing this out and holding on to it, because it encapsulates the situation. If the discussion ever comes up, whip it out and read it.

As for what to do now? All I can think of is boundaries. Keep reiterating your O&H feelings about it, find ways to point out situations that could have been handled differently, in a nonjudgmental way. He probably is being honest to some degree. Many men simply don't think the same way and you may have to educate him. Look for instances, and sweetly say, 'see if you would have picked up your plate from the table when you were through with dinner, that would have been one of those things I was talking about. Because it tells me you remember that I'm doing all the cooking and cleaning, and that you love me enough to shave just a little of that work off my day.' I'm sure that's not a MB way to say it, but you can figure out your own way.

I am a BW who was the one with the "low sex drive". I actually have a healthy sex drive that wasn't being "started" properly. My FWH was not meeting my ENs - conversation, affection, help around the house, and I was not meeting his. We were so disconnected from each other it was like living on opposite sides of the Grand Canyon.

We began counselling before Dday, while he was still having the Affair, and I believe it saved our marriage. He was always a great lover, but for me, there had to be a meeting of the minds for me to be interested in sex. The counselling taught us ways to deal with conflict and issues. Once we were able to do that, we began having real conversations. What a difference in our relationship. We discovered we were friends again.

I also started using a testosterone cream - perhaps your wife's MD could give her a blood test to see if her levels are normal. using this cream has given me a higher sex drive than I've had since I was a teenager.

Meeting ENs, hormones, learning to please a woman (as suggested by other posters) - all these could help your wife be a more willing partner.

my husbands masturbtes 5 days a week, has atleast 1 wet dream n watches porn everyday, has lady friendz s well (i m not exactly sure abt the extent of this relationship but from the txts they seem v intimate) but he doesnt have sex with me. v have been married fr only 3 yrs. the fist yr was ok but v had sex only 28 times last yr and this year the sx rate has gone down to 11 times only in the whole year. i hve tried to talk to him but he mkes excuses. on weekdays he says he has to go to work n hez tired n on wekends he either fakes an illness or he goes to hiz prents place. i hve tried seductive talking, lingere n everything possible. but nothing helps. wat am i suppossed to do? plz help me

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> so sorry for you sitch, Imara... sounds like he has an addiction to porn and a wander lust... how is your relationship otherwise? how long have you 2 been together before you got married? how were things before marriage?
IMO, you are being very neglected and abused (emotionally).
Find an IC... get help...maybe get away from him altogether... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What do you do when “you” see the sex diminishing, but your spouse doesn’t

Honestly ..There is one word.. Communicate. Find the reason’s behind the dimishing sex life, if you don’t know the reasons ask your spouse, if they do not know then find it together.

If you see it and he/she doesn’t what do you do. You have talked to them you have argued and fought with them about it and still the only resolve is rejection and denial. It’s easier for the deny’er to reject your intimacy than to face the fear that they may have to change, it’s easier for them to blame you for not taking out the trash rather than realize they have a big problem in the intimacy area. It is easier for them to come up with every excuse in the book in order to avoid the fact that they need to change.

Sex is the biggest three letter word I have ever come across. I once heard a very intelligent woman say, your biggest sex organ is between your ears. It is the truest statement I have ever heard. There are so many things that people use as excuses to avoid intimacy and it ultimately boils down to, unless you have a true medical condition, you can make the choice. You can make the choice to be sexual and intimate with your spouse or you can choose to withhold. But see here is where it gets technical. You have to find the “reasons” behind your issue. You have to look inside and find out what it is that you are really afraid of. You have to look inside and find out what it is that keeps you from showing that intimacy to your spouse. It’s not easy, as a matter of fact I almost ended up divorced because I didn’t want to relinquish the power to him. Oh yeah, I hear your thoughts now. What? Relinquish my power to him/her. Yeah, you have to. You have to give them a 100 percent, you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable, otherwise that insecurity inside you thinking he is just gonna hurt me, or the typical BS stereotype that he just wants sex is going to get you well, divorced or in one very very unhappy marriage....

I'd like to add a comment.

When my H wants intimacy, he turns off the TV and starts kissing me. Just making out like we have all day.

If I wasn't in the mood when we started, I sure am after a few toe-curling kisses.

And I am no spring chicken, I am 52 years old.

I’ve been married for eight years, but lately we’ve been having a lot of trouble with our relationship. We had our first child, Lindsey, in September of last year and she is the most wonderful precious thing on the planet, but since then, my partner and I have not been able to regain our intimacy. I now realize that the problem is my relationship with myself.

I read the book Harmonic Wealth by James Ray and his section on relationships was an eye-opener for me. He reminded me that my most important relationship in the world (even more than Lindsey which I find hard to accept!) is with MYSELF and that if I didn’t take care of that, I wouldn’t find success in other relationships. Has anyone else read this book? Any tips on how to balance family life with love for oneself?
a JR Fan