First and foremost I am standing for my marriage. I truly believe that this is the path that G-d is directing me to take. I am proud of my Judaism, but this is a spiritual battle that I am willing to go to any lengths to fight. I am asking for help in becoming an A student of Plan A. I thought I was there, but obviously I wasn’t. Mimi, asked me to put it out to all of you that I NEED help. I need guidance on what I am doing wrong and learn to understand what I am trying to achieve, develop a plan and keep moving forward.
I have bought and read (twice), SAA and HNHN. I regularly come to this website and read as much as I can and print out as much to take to bed and read. Financially I can’t afford to talk to the Harley’s. I did once this summer and got some direction which I followed, but my WH wouldn’t agree to call him. At one point this summer, my H said he was coming home, but the WH is back, stronger than ever and happily living with OW in their own house.
Let me begin with my successes so you can see that I am not sitting around waiting for my WH to be fixed and come home. Both my WH and I have been sober for many years – specifically me over 20 and him over 18. BUT we didn’t work a recovery program and for 14 or more years lived in a dry drunk. Almost a week from D-day, I went back to AA, got a sponsor, and began diligently working a recovery program. I have addressed every addiction I have including, food, finances, and to some extent sex. I have lost 77 ¾ lbs, given up sugar and exercise regularly, though that could always do better.
The greatest accomplishment is my relationship with G-d has become most important in my life. I am deeply overwhelmed by G-d’s steadfast love and support in walking me through the valley of the deepest darkness’s I have ever known. There were days I simply wanted to either drink and use or blow my brains out and end this pain.
Today I am truly in a place where I know that G-ds plan is for me to become the woman he always envisioned. Part of that is becoming a whole, healthy woman and to do that I have sought out spiritual mentors, IC on personal issues, as well as MC from a spiritual basis. I read Torah and other scriptures daily as well as seek G-d for all the things in my life. I walk in trust that G-d is standing along side of me for my marriage and needs me to trust him by staying out of my WH way and let G-d have him completely.
My two younger DS (18 and 14) figured out about the affair and confronted their dad. They were so mad they told WH he was dead to them and they wouldn’t live in the same house as him. My WH moved out has not come home – b/c the boys told him to leave. We have been married for almost 24 years. My WH has been having a RA since May 2006. I completely believe he is in the addictive R, but I want to learn and understand more so what he does and how he acts stops surprising me. I give this tone of understanding lip service, but clearly I am missing something somewhere and not sure why.
Currently, my children and I have moved into an apt. I couldn’t afford to keep the house. We have NO legal separation agreement. His OW is a 45 yr old - twice divorced chronic crack user with Hep C who is on state disability. She doesn’t work and stays home all day long taking care of his every whim. She has 3 children (30, 20, and 19 – and this one has 3 children). My WH has pretty much no relationship with any of my 3 children. He emails our youngest pretty regularly, but never of any substance.
WH believes he has apologized to each child and has become the victim in all this because they don’t want to have anything to do with him. It’s no different than any other WH totally under the control of the alienation force and fog. Actually one difference he is passive-aggressive. My WH is very upset that none of us acknowledged his birthday. At that time, it was suggested I stay out of his life and leave him alone, so I did.
I worked a Plan A during the summer that actually had an affect on him, to the point of where he was coming home, but WH appeared and has stayed ever since. It has been observed by Mimi, that my WH has no respect for me and that is UNATTRACTIVE. I never sent a Plan B letter, so I really wasn’t in that either. Last weekend I committed to working the very best Plan A that I can. But clearly I am not doing very well and missing the boat. I was directed by Mimi to ask for help. And I am. I will go to any lengths and am willing to take whatever hits you deem are necessary.
I don’t know where to begin Plan A again, I don’t know if I should be contacting him regularly by phone or email and letting him know what’s going on in the house? I want to build respect for myself and ultimately have him notice. Also, I need a little more guidance on understanding reverse babble (like he says – I gave you everything I had or I held on as long as I could). I want to learn how to respond to him. And honestly, I want to become an expert of Plan A to help those who come after me. This is the most horrific thing anyone can go through and if G-d wants to use me to help others, I am at his service. Mimi, advised me to put myself out there and so I am. Please help me.
I've heard Dr. Harley state numerous times on the radio show that women generally can't do Plan A for more than a few weeks. Considering that you've already done a Plan A, which you thought had an impact, it's now time for you to be in Plan B.
Well, a couple of reasons...Mimi felt like my H has no respect for me and that since I didn't send a Plan B letter, I wasn't really in Plan B. She felt that going back to Plan A for awhile was best and then sending a letter for Plan B.
I actually have a lot of Plan A left in me because I haven't been around him. I would like to do that for awhile and then start Plan B correctly.
I have NO legal separation in place and rely on him for 1/2 his paycheck.
If he is indeed a long term addict who is in an affair with another addict who is actively using..let's be frank...he is probably using too.
Eventually he is going to crash and burn and I think...you know..if you CAN just keep up plan A and you WANT to then there isn't any reason not to wait it out.
Most affairs end, most addictions eventually crash.
I would be polite and pleasant and attractive for awhile and then just withdraw and let him kiss pavement [aka let God deal with him].
I would not encourage you to put him in a position where he has the opportunity to be disrespectfull to you.
Do you understand what I mean?
I would not give him the CHANCE to be disrespectfull by making no demands and allowing no intimacies. Just show him all the changes you have made...and be pleasant..and be busy and allow the contrast between how you live your life and how OW does to sink in.
Eventually he will look at his inebriated and ill OW laying lazily in bed and look at you sunshine and daisies and he will have to admit that you have a better life.
Then the question becomes..is he willing to stop being an addict and go live it with you or not.
WH has been clean and sober for over 18 years. I don't have any reason to believe he is using. But I also know that could be a lie. OW doesn't use all the time, but it seems to be chronic. From what I have read about A, he is totally into an addiction with the R., I am not sure it is substances that he's involved him. Certainly he is still in a major dry drunk.
<I would not give him the CHANCE to be disrespectfull by making no demands and allowing no intimacies.> Noodle - Can you clarify what you consider demands?
How often should I be in contact with him? Part of me wants to email him often and let him know what's going on with the boys' life, but I don't know if that's a good idea or not. What do you think. How should I be in contact with him - phone, email or whatever? I CAN and am totally willing to keep up Plan A, actually I am stronger than I was back this summer. I just need to vent on here sometimes to let me know where my stinking thinking is going off. Does that make sense?
Friends on the "outside" don't understand this and people here do.
I do need to work on the reverse babble, any thoughts there?
If the OW is a crackhead, I don't believe that she doesn't use "all the time". Crack is an insiduously addictive drug, and I believe that it can be almost instantly addictive with the first use. Our ex-Son-in-law is a crack user, who spends every penny he can get his hands on to feed his addiction, and has been a crackhead for the past 14 years. We forbade him to come to our house after we started finding things missing, and had to start following him around, even to the bathroom, just to keep him from stealing from us.
I live in a high and lofty place, but also with the contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite...I have seen his ways, says the Lord, and I will heal him...Peace, peace to those far and near...and I will heal them.
And through the prophet Jeremiah He said:
I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
David wrote:
I waited patiently for the Lord; He turned to me and heard my cry. He lifted me out of the slimy pit, out of the mud and mire; He set my feet upon a rock and gave me a firm place to stand...Blessed is the man who makes the Lord his trust...
And another Psalm; a prayer of an afflicted man:
My days vanish like smoke; my bones burn like glowing embers. My heart is blighted and whithered like grass; I forget to eat my food...For I eat ashes as my food and mingle my drink with tears...But you, O Lord, sit enthroned forever.
Just a few things that gave me hope and strength when I was at my lowest...
I have only the WH's word on what she does. I have no idea. Honestly, her using can only help the disintegration of the relationship or create a completely dysfunctional one.
The anger that emerces from him and directed at me is amazing. And yet as I write this, it brings comfort. My rabbi told me that my H is a fire breathing dragon directing his fire at me. And it will get worse. He was write, he is getting angrier and more controlling.
Mark,
Your words of comfort and awesome and thank you. I need such strength and hope. I also need to continue to walk in G-d's path and pray for patience.
I do wonder if there is anything you see that I might not be doing?
On a personal note, I completed my 8th step tonight and am ready to move onto the 9th.
All I can tell you is that little things over time make the difference. Beware the trap of unfulfilled expectations. That will bite you faster than anything else.
Also beware the trap of settling in and allowing the WS to remain that way with no consequences. Eventually you will probably have to go to Plan B to save your sanity. Don't simply adjust to life the way it is, but don't expect him to respond the way you want right off the bat.
What do you mean, not allowing the WS to remain that way with no consequences?
I received an email from WH yesterday that said:
Deposite made this afternoon. Several were sent to Tahoma and others to WWDB. When you returned the camera last the short lens was not included. Please return it with the camera this time. When are you going to return it? Thank you WH
Earlier in the week I had given him a couple of requests when emailing me. My feelings were really up after reading this and I so wanted to give him quite an answer back.
So, this is what I emailed back: Shabbat Shalom,
I am being accountable to receiving your email and thanking you for the deposit. The money issue is not complete for me, but I am not sure what I need from you at this point to complete it.
Upon reading this email I find my feelings and buttons are being pushed.
I need to pray and seek G-d for what is happening, what my part of this is and respond. I would appreciate patience, as I am finding G-d doesn't answer me immediately.
Have a nice weekend, BS
This is what he emailed back last night: Shabbot Shalom
Nothing was ment to push buttons or hurt feelings. I am sorry if it came accros that way Im tired and kept iot short. WH
My prayers have led me to the thought and remember I am Jewish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But that someone told me of Jesus, I think. That when you are slapped on the cheek by someone give them the other cheek.
So, if I need to utilize every opportunity of showing WH I am a different person b/c of my relationship and commitment to G-d I was going to answer him this way.
H, I heard a story once that when you are slapped in the cheek, turn your other cheek to them. So in that spirit of G-d, I hadn't realized how important our camera was to you. I am more committed to our marriage than any materialistic item, so please know that I am leaving the camera at our friends house and you can go by and pick it up anytime.
Mark - what do you think? Is this a Plan A response, more importantly a response how G-d would like me to?
I leave Monday with my two boys to spend Thanksgiving at my H's sisters house. I have not once asked him if he wanted to go.
He is still with OW. But I was thinking it was worth a try? What do you think? He probably won't say yes, and I am afraid I will get hurt, but as a student of Plan A, what would be the way to go?
What I meant by not just allowing the WS to remain that way with no consequences was that if you allow him to stay with OW and continue in Plan A indefinitely, with nothing in the way of pressure from you he has no need to change anything. He has you for emotional support and the skank for whatever he needs the skank for.
If you make peace between him and the kids, he has no reason to address his problems relative to the kids.
If you remind him of upcoming birthdays and things of that sort, he has no need to get his head out of his butt and take responsibility for keeping track of his own [email]cr@p.[/email]
And if you are nice to him after he has been nasty to you, you are basically rewarding him for his bad behavior and just like a dog that gets scraps from the table after begging, he is being trained that what he is doing is not only acceptable but the preferred course of action.
I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to figure out whether something is appropriate as a Plan A reaction to his actions or not. I think you need to be getting your Plan B ducks in a row and figuring out what you are going to need to get into Plan B. You probably need a LSA and LCA in order to guarantee your family finances.
You need to be thinking about all of this because while turning the other cheek is likely to make points with God, it isn't going to ever get your H to change anything. He needs to SUFFER from his choices before he can see them to be bad choices. As long as you are willing to take what he throws your way and expect nothing else, you're going to get what you are getting.
Remember that Plan B is NOT giving up, only stopping the drama so that you don't have to deal with it while you wait to see if he ever gets his poop grouped.
I completely understand with what you are saying. Part of why I am trying to Plan A for a little while is because I went into hiding and never wrote a Plan B letter. Mimi suggested I was never in Plan B.
As for Plan B, I only need a LSA, two of my three kids are adults and the younger one is 14 and wants nothing to do with him. One of the things I have completely done is stayed out of his relationship with the kids and feel the full brunt of not having his family. That's why WH feels like the victim in all this. He told the boys sorry, but they still want nothing to do with him. Imagine that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So basically, stay low, don't take his crap or call him on it like I did in that email?
Do you see what I am saying or am I totally missing something? Sorry to be so dunce. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ok, I have read pages and pages of Mimi's from the early days and I so parallel to her.
So, I am asking for HELP!!
My WH must be feeling so much pain of not having his kids around for the holidays and no relationship whatsoever. I want to write him an email and let him know he is missed and there is a hole in our family. I am at his sister's house for the holidays and he is with OW.
Everything I hear about him says he isn't happy. Should I keep our of G-ds way and let him keep on doing what he is doing in his life. I'm scared that the "victim" attitude will push him farther away.
Should I do it, what should it say? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I have a question, if I haven't spoken basically to WH for over a month and not once talked about us staying together, how would WH know where things stand between us.
Unfortunately, one of the things that you and I both have to come to acceptance with is that our WS's know -exactly- where things stand between us and them.. they are in the driver's seat of this crazy ride. It's their decisions that put us where we are. Only they can decide when the ride stops. Our choice is whether or not it's worth staying around to see the finish.
It is so hard to think of it that way, but you are right. And sadly, today I still choose to stay for the finish. I love him that much and believe in him that much.
Do you think they realize what they are doing and are having fun or do you think they are so far gone they don't have a clue about any of this.
You both have more control than you think. While it seems that WS is in control of the ride, the truth is that YOU can get off when ever you wish. WS has to stay till the end. They are the ones who can't stop the ride.
It will be you who decides to call it an end. And Plan B lets you get off the ride and let it continue without you. No more drama...no more pain...no more dealing with it all the time.
I actually hadn't thought of it that way. And I would imagine when are heart and mind are in sync is when we are getting off the ride?
Is this something that you just intuitively feel or know or how do you know when it happens. What was it like for you, if you did Plan B?
SG
SG,
I remember feeling terrified of Plan B. I could think of so many reasons that it would not "work". I was so afraid of how angry it would make him, thinking that it would push him away further.
As weeks passed, I began to see how it could be effective, but not in MY situation. More weeks passed, and I began to contemplate what Plan B would look like for me. Then I started working Plan B out on paper...boundaries, timing, what it would take for me to ALLOW him to come home... it's this kind of thinking change that PUTS you in the driver's seat. Then I started Plan Bing as much as possible without doing the letter. I couldn't officially Plan B because of some timing issues, but I knew at that time it was just a few weeks away. I began really looking forward to Plan B. It seemed like it would be a safe haven. But then, I began to wonder if I just wanted to throw in the towel and be done. I remember Melody telling me I had waited too long to Plan B (because I said I was done and had nothing left for him). Thankfully, although I was very close to that point, there was still something deep inside that I had tucked away. So when he did return, completely broken, it could spark again.
H has told me that it was the "Plan B" kind of stuff that made a big impact on him. It was the CONSEQUENCES of his actions that they feel when we step out of the picture. It was truly feeling like he wasn't a part of our family, without me rescuing him from feeling that way. His parents had a friendly divorce, and they celebrated holidays together and stuff like that. I knew that was what he envisioned. I wanted him to really KNOW what divorce from me would be like. I wanted him to KNOW that he either WAS or WAS NOT my H. He wasn't going to get to PLAY H when he felt like it.
The point I am trying to make is that I was at first very fearful of the consequences of Plan B to me. When I started taking the actions to prepare for Plan B, my thinking began to change. I gradually began embracing the idea of Plan B, and eventually could see it as a blessing to me regardless of how it impacted my H.
Your H is still enjoying his cake walk. If you feel you really need to Plan A longer, perhaps allow yourself only a couple weeks. During that time, PREPARE for Plan B; and your heart and mind may begin to move into sync as you prepare.
I didn't have to go to Plan B. My brilliant Plan A (yeah...RIGHT!) did the trick.
I was at the point of preparing Plan B when the turn around happened, so I'm not an expert in Plan B. But I'm not talking about just moving to Plan B. Plan B isn't about ending the game and stopping the ride, only about you no longer participating in the game as an active player and getting yourself off the ride.
Plan B isn't the end, it is only a break. It's Half Time. You get to go into the locker room, regroup and prepare for the push in the second half. The thing is, you aren't going to be on the field until the very end of the game. You're just going to hang out and have fun with your friends and teammates while waiting for the guys on the field to get the ball back so you can make a play.
During Plan B you don't do anything about WH or the A or OW or any of that [email]cr@p.[/email] You just rest, relax, regroup and regenerate.
And just like the QB standing on the sidelines waiting for the defense to get the ball back, you sit and wait to see what he will do when he no longer has you to lean on, when he discovers that you are not his mother but his wife and you won't be taking care of him unless he is taking care of you.
And then you just wait...a month...6 months...a year...2 years...If he isn't home begging your forgiveness by then, he might not ever get it, so then you decide if the game is over for you, but even then, it is you who stops waiting for him, not the other way around.
I am SO happy for your and your H right now. You are such an inspiration and hope for me. I feel like I am the worse case on here and am truly in darkness tonight.
I read Torah tonight and Isaiah was the portion that G-d took me to about his plan will not be thwarted. Scary, I know. Just what I needed.
So, if it can happen for you, G-d can make it happen for me if he so desires.
Now, let's prepare me for Plan B. Do I have to have a separation agreement in place? If so, it will be about 2 months until it can be done. I have to write a letter right? Can I write it here and have it ready to go?
Mark,
Thank you for the analogy. I totally understand what you are saying.
So, what are the preparations I need to make from your perspective. Knowing that my WH has no respect for me, how can I claim it back?
I asked you where you lived in the other post. The lawyer I went to go see told me it takes 6 weeks to get it filed and I don't have the money right now.
I have NO challenge asking for every penny I can get. I always WARNED him, I am the first wife with the kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But seriously, I have needed to move from my house and my boys are being forced to live a completely different lifestyle because of his A.
I think he should suffer for that financially, don't you?
But seriously, I have needed to move from my house and my boys are being forced to live a completely different lifestyle because of his A.
I think he should suffer for that financially, don't you?
ABSOLUTELY, He should SUFFER. Why did you need to move from your house? Does he live there?
Tell him that you need some EXTRA MONEY for an EMERGENCY and use it to pay for the lawyer. She most definitely is getting money from him that is rightfully YOURS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I live in NC, making potato salad today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have a G-d question. As I work to become the loving woman and wife that G-d always meant me to be. Where does having him suffer fall into loving. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The old me would have him suffering. The new me, just wants to love him. Does that make sense? What do you think?
My H and I made foolish financial mistakes. In order for me to continue living in the house, I needed his entire paycheck. After consulting with a lawyer, there was NO WAY H would have kept giving me his entire paycheck. He did it while he has income from the old man, that she took care of. But once he did and there wasn't anymore money. No, he lives in a 800 sq ft. 1917 shack that is so old and has so much mold the ceiling bows.
It's on land which is something he always wanted to have with his family. Now he has it, but no family. Only her.
There is no doubt she is getting money that should be mine. She doesn't work and lives off of him completely. In fact, she gets money from the state for her hep c.
As I work to become the loving woman and wife that G-d always meant me to be. Where does having him suffer fall into loving. The old me would have him suffering. The new me, just wants to love him. Does that make sense? What do you think?
The BEST ANSWER to this question is in the book LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by DODSON.
You don't want to ENABLE his AFFAIR. You want him to SUFFER the consequences OF HIS OWN ACTIONS. You want to gain his RESPECT of YOU. You aren't being CRUEL to HIM. HE is doing this TO HIMSELF. As a man, it's his responsibility to take care of his family. So he is not being a GODLY MAN. As long as you follow PROVERBS 31, you are being a GODLY WIFE,IMO....That's where the COOKING comes in...as a part of this... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have to go read Provers 31. I don't know my bible too well. But I am learning.
I read that book. Either I wasn't in a good place or I am missing something. Let me read it again and see what you mean.
The other book I am reading is winning your husband back before it's too late, by Gary Smalley. Have you read that.
The responsibility part - he doesn't want responsibility. That's what part of this is about. He just wants to have fun and put himself first. Or is that just alienation stuff.
Last night when I got home from California, I emailed him to let him know we had reached home safe and sound.
I also told him that I wasn't using the camera and asked him if he wanted it back until my son's next tournament. I find it fascinating that he mentioned he was glad we were home safe and had a good weekend (we were gone for a week), and said nothing about the camera that was so important to him two weeks ago.
That's why I don't think he is dealing in a full deck. One other thing that I noticed, which may seem small to someone else, when he emailed my son to have a good time at Louise's. My H would NEVER had said Louise, it would ALWAYS have been Aunt Louise.
YEP...now you are getting it..He is NO LONGER YOUR HUSBAND...temporary insanity...CRAZY ALIEN.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
This is BASICALLY the Potato Salad recipe... I make it like my Grandmother did...
INGREDIENTS 5 potatoes 3 eggs 1 cup chopped celery 1/2 cup chopped onion 1/2 cup sweet pickle relish 1/4 teaspoon garlic salt 1/4 teaspoon celery salt 1 tablespoon prepared mustard ground black pepper to taste 1/4 cup mayonnaise
DIRECTIONS Bring a large pot of salted water to a boil. Add potatoes and cook until tender but still firm, about 15-30 minutes. Drain, cool, peel and cut up. Place eggs in a saucepan and cover with cold water. Bring water to a boil; cover, remove from heat, and let eggs stand in hot water for 10 to 12 minutes. Remove from hot water, cool, peel and chop. In a large bowl, combine the potatoes, eggs, celery, onion, relish, garlic salt, celery salt, mustard, pepper and mayonnaise. Mix together well and refrigerate until chilled.
WH and I have spoken more today than we have in a LONG time. He is such the WH though. Can you believe this one. One more alienation attitude is the cynicalism in him now. He was NEVER that way before. OW certainly hasn't brought out the best in him.
We were kinda having a nice emailing back and forth, I told him how I was making Thanksgiving dinner for me and the kids and asked him if he would like some stuffing. He said yes and then asked for the recipe if possible. I KNOW he must be doing drugs if he thinks I am going to give him a family recipe so she can make it for him. Or would a g-dly woman do that?
And the answer is?
He also had some smart aliky remark about my daughters boyfriend who he can't stand and comparing my son to him. He is lost - I wonder where the real man is?
How can I answer him lovingly without pissing him off that I won't give him the recipe.
It's amazing how angry he is inside. For someone who is supposed to be with the woman he loves, he sure doesn't act like it.
How much fun he must be right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I even commented on how incredible beautiful it must be where he is living and that's what he always wanted. All he could say was yes and complain on how cold.
He don't sound vewy happy, do he? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I would just tell the truth. It is a family recipe only to be passed to the next generation. If he gets mad, too bad. He should have stuck around to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
You have gotten in touch with the love you have left for your ACTUAL HUSBAND!!
The man you are talking to IS NOT YOUR HUSBAND...he may look like him..sound like him..but he is NOT YOUR HUSBAND...
He has LOST that POSITION..needs to be treated like the WAYWARD, ALIEN that HE IS, meaning that he cannot be believed..cannot be trusted...he is possessed with EVIL...evil ways and practices....
Your goal is to CAPTURE your REAL HUSBAND back through use of the MBers' Plans...lure him away from the ALIEN SPACESHIP...
So you LOVE YOUR HUSBAND..and not THE ALIEN...(Orchid, I hear you.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
I'm not familiar with how the TORAH version is different than King James Edition of the Bible...but PROVERBS teaches how to be a GODLY WIFE to a GODLY HUSBAND..you don't have a HUSBAND like that at this time...
Ok, I am hearing you. Since you had success, I have to trust you. I am just worried that I am not being a g-d ly woman and won't be blessed with my Husband coming home. Does that make sense.
Ok, just to clarify. The goal of Plan A is to work on me and through that, hopefully he will see that I have changed. Not necessarily, but hopefully.
Again, the old me would withold the recipe. The new me wants to do what G-d wants me to do. Does that make sense. Tell me where my thinking is off.
Charlotte,
It's HIS family recipe. I got it from his mom. Now, how can I respond. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Actually Mimi, this man that emails me is so far from my husband it's scary. The words he uses, the cynical attitude. This one has no sense of humor and quite frankly he's a real drag right now.
Ok, since I am in touch with the love for MY HUSBAND, what do I do with that love?
And you know what else, I think his mom would KILL me if I gave out that receipe to her. If his parents were alive to see what he is doing, they would have disowned him.
So, I almost thought to make a joke about it and say, "And face your mom in heaven? I don't think so.
The point of PLAN B is to SAFEGUARD the LOVE for your HUSBAND..the more you see of the ALIEN,there's a great likelihood that your love for him will die.
You are striving in your PLAN A to be the best YOU that you can be...when and if you have YOUR HUSBAND again..you will be a GODLY WIFE...but that has to be put ON HOLD...
What you are doing NOW is PLAN A...different than being a true WIFE..since PLAN A is one-sided..only YOUR GIVER is in action..that's what has to be short-term..you cannot expect anything in return from HIM-THE ALIEN...GET IT???
I'm trying to get it!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I am not looking for anything from him in return, just don't want to push him farther away. That's the part I am scared about.
ALL I expect from the ALIEN is toxicity. And he is FULL of it. He is so poisonous, I'm afraid it will kill him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So his family recipe. What do I tell him, Plan A style?
Sorry to be so dunce tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> SG
Tell him that you will be GLAD to continue to cook it FOR HIM as usual. He's welcome to come over to share some with you or whatever...
Tell him that sharing the recipe would communicate that you have given up on your marriage and that you have not...that you would love for him to share future Thanksgivings with you... as his mother assumed would happen when she gave you the recipe...
I will pray on both suggestions and see what comes to me. I would be lying if I called it a secret recipe. She wrote it down, but I lost it after I memorized it. And really it's a recipe that's in my head that I just create by taste and have perfected over the years.
I sent some of it home with my daughter to give to him at work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just have to realize that no matter what I say it will piss him off because it's ALL about him and what he WANTS.
Besides, Thanksgiving it over, since he is Jewish and doesn't celebrate Christmas he shouldn't want it again until next year, oh but wait, his OW isn't Jewish.
Now that's where the latkes come in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And there is truth to what you say about the recipe, his mother shared it with me AFTER I was his WIFE, not someone who makes meals for her son or breaks up her son's family and hurts her grandchildren. I really wouldn't want to face my MIL in heaven over this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
And da latke woman has the recipe in her head. Thank G-d my mother never cooked with recipes on paper. She always memorized or improvised. I was such a good student.
I've been out all day and just was catching up on your thread. You are doing great! Da latke woman will keep that recipe at home (and not share it with the OW). The idea is to make being HOME attractive-and if your WH wants some latkes, then he'll just have to check his alien brain at the door....
I was reading some of your earlier postings about wondering where wanting your WH to suffer comes in with loving him? Well, it's partly human, and it's partly our sense of justice that we get from God. We also want something to happen to them to get them to find the right path-like when we discipline our kids. As we choose to follow God, He tells us to let Him be the one who doles out vengence. He also says that He is slow to anger. Because He is sovereign, He knows what is the best timing for each of His children. Sometimes He lets us suffer the consequences of our choices (like your WH not getting his latkes). Sometimes He has to send extra pressure to get hardened hearts to turn around (think Pharaoh and the plagues). The best thing for you to do is step out of the way and let God deal with your WH. God knows the best way to do this. Hopefully it won't take a big fish like it did with Jonah.
You also said you were reading Prov.31 to be more of the woman God wants you to be. I would recommend you look at the stories of Ruth and Esther. These were women who lived through difficult circumstances and their responses were to be obedient to God in very different ways. Also Hannah-who gave her son Samuel to God after praying for a child for so long. And even though he's not a woman-Joseph's story is also a model to follow. Sometimes we have no idea what God is preparing us for and just have to cling to our faith.
SATAN wants you to DOUBT your FAITH in GOD to take care of you.
TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND LEAN NOT UNTO THINE OWN UNDERSTANDING; IN ALL THY WAYS ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AND HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATHS. PROVERBS 3:5-6.
I am very blessed with the advice I am getting and truly appreciate it.
I am not sure how long to stay in Plan A. I think I will let Mimi guide me for when it's time. I do know I have a lot of Plan A left in me and want to do a really good one.
My WH is so typical from the words, to the selfishness, etc. And yet, when it's your own story you somehow think it's the worst case ever and there is no hope.
All I have is my trust and faith in G-d. I somehow have to find a way to build it deeper and stronger. Please pray that I find the path to G-d deeper.
Ok, here's the happenings that I just found out about on the other side of the street.
I don't think all is perfect over in fastasyland. I found out that OW pulled another disappearing act one day and my WH was VERY angry that he or anyone else couldn't get a hold of her. I wonder if she was out using again.
I also found out that my WH isn't contacting my kids b/c OW won't let him have a relationship with his kids unless she is around, which won't happen. So she is keeping him from his kids and their relationship is being destroyed.
My friend gets the impression that OW is out for as much money as possible and he got the feeling like she was trying to get my friend to give her and WH money for the work that my WH was doing.
I think her true colors will come out over time. What do you all think?
The hardest part is that my kids really miss their dad, but they are as stubborn as their dad.
What do you all think? I am just keeping with Plan A and being the sweet giving woman, not to much - no RECIPE.
On a sad note - Sean Taylor, the most talented player my beloved Redskins had on their team died last night from a gunshot wound he received Monday night. This was my son's favorite player and he is really hurting over it. Some of you may think this is stupid, but I love my Redskins.
I just need a little reinforcement that my HUSBAND is gone to the mother ship, and that's why he hasn't called to show some concern. My HUSBAND would know how bad this hurts, couldn't he just muster some sympathy or is that just me being knaive.
I think her true colors will come out over time. What do you all think?
Yep. That's the GREATNESS of PLAN B.
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I just need a little reinforcement that my HUSBAND is gone to the mother ship, and that's why he hasn't called to show some concern. My HUSBAND would know how bad this hurts, couldn't he just muster some sympathy or is that just me being knaive.
You're in PLAN A. This gives you an opening to call him and talk how about HOW SAD this is for US fans...
The relationship between your H and kids can mend..if our family is any indication..first it was my H and our oldest son..now my H and our youngest are bonding again..it's taken 4 or 5 years..but my H himself said that he was willing to wait...that he has learned the value of TIME...my YS almost acts as if he has fallen IN LOVE with his father...whom he stated that he HATED during the AFFAIR...
HAVE FAITH, SG...
BTW, remember HE IS NOT YOUR HUSBAND..don't expect anything at all from him at this time...PLAN A is about THE GIVER in you..ONLY...
And it's helps the giver in me to keep giving when I hear that not all is great over in happyland. I like hearing she is disappearing and it makes him angry. I like hearing that all she cooks for him is mostly fried food. I hear she keeps a black pan on the stove with grease in it and reuses it over and over again. That is just gross.
Remember, one of the babble items was that we don't live a healthy lifestyle. I would hardly think cooking in grease is a healthy lifestyle for someone who has heart disease in his family.
And I like hearing that she is preventing him from seeing his kids because she has to be around. I can only imagine one day that he is going realize what she is doing and wake up. Or is that too much to hope for?
I guess this helps me to have patience that time is TRULY on my side and that I just keep on working at becoming the woman G-d always envisioned for me.
Honestly SG.. I think their little world is starting to crumble. I'm hoping similar things are happening in my WW's world.. but it's just that, hope.. stuff we see peeking through the windows into Affairsville.
Best thing the both of us can do, even in Plan A is to stay out of the way.. don't go rushing into that burning house for your WH... if he turns into your H somewhere in there, then maybe it's worth the risk.. but I'd wager if that kind of transformation happens he'll come running out first.
Be still.
I know it's exciting to see the cracks appearing in the dam.. but even this will take time.
On a sad note - Sean Taylor, the most talented player my beloved Redskins had on their team died last night from a gunshot wound he received Monday night.
SG, I read this and immediately thought of you. I am so sorry for your son. Tough lesson for kids. Life is SHORT. The best laid plans can disintegrate in the blink of an eye.
When my DH and I were separated, his SIL (his brother's ex-wife) was killed in a car accident. I thought to myself that surely this would be an eye-opener to WH. Nope, didn't phase him a bit. Later of course, he was appropriately sad but at the time, he just wasn't "there".
On the receipe, I would share... maybe not the EXACT receipe but an alien version of it... he he
OW: But I made it just like the recipe called for! WH: (Gasping for breath, breathing fire... running for the porcelain throne!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[ OW: But I made it just like the recipe called for! WH: (Gasping for breath, breathing fire... running for the porcelain throne!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
PM.. you are the best. Thanks for a great laugh today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Thank you for thinking of me. That is so kind of you to notice. I am sorry for your loss during that time. I have to say, Smartiepants encouraged me to really read your posts thoroughly as you did a Plan A for a really long time. Upon further review and since you are recovered - would you have done anything different?
Do you see anything that I could be doing or should NOT be doing?
I love the idea of that recipe. I think arsenic would be my secret ingredient.
Jamesus,
It feels good to laugh doesn't it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Smartiepants encouraged me to really read your posts thoroughly as you did a Plan A for a really long time. Upon further review and since you are recovered - would you have done anything different?
Oh, no, no, no. I actually didn't know about MB when I was going through it and I did the opposite of Plan A... maybe she had me confused with someone else on the Plan A thing. Yikes, no one should follow my story as to WHAT TO DO but rather WHAT NOT TO DO! That's why my link is titled, "SHOULDA BEEN the MB way" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And yes, yes, yes! There are many things I would have done differently. Beginning with Day One.
Oh, I think you're doing fine. I think you'll continue doing fine if you stick with Mimi... she's GREAT at Plan A stuff.
The only other thing I see, and I think you're already doing this, is what Jameus suggests... sometimes ya just gotta "be still" and regroup. Take those times of stillness to really listen to what God is trying to say to you... whether through circumstance, through posters here, or through reading the Word.
Like when I was driving home from CA on Saturday and on the side of the road was "Trust Jesus", only I put in G-d.
And then this was weirder, the whole trip I hadn't seen any of my WH trucks from his company. Right after I saw the sign, I saw one set of trucks on my side of the road and then the other side, almost minutes from each other.
And then not anothing one after that.
Mimi is the best, isn't she. I am very grateful to her. Yes, Mimi, I am sucking up to keep you around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And then the circumstance of hearing all is not well on that side, or there are cracks at the very least.
This OW isn't nearly as smart as I thought she was. I imagine she is feeling very confident that she has him nabbed. I would NEVER pull some of the stuff she pulls, like telling him to stay away from his kids unless she is around. Looking to make money off of a friend and disappearing for a day at a time. I can only imagine how pi$$ed WH was that day. Woo Hoo@
All the while I stay low, love him from afar, pray to G-d, live in G-ds will and wait for him to come home.
All the while, becoming who G-d has planned me to be all along.
Things are going well. It's been cold today and the weather was weird at work (rain, hail, sun etc) but it was great to come home to the valley and see snow dusting Cultus Mountain and the other foothills.
I didn't call him, I emailed him about it. I told him that he was my son's favorite player and was taking it hard. The last time I called him to talk to him about our children, he didnt' call me back. Losing this player is really sad to me and I didn't want to put myself in a position to really get hurt over something that is so important to me knowing the WH exists and wouldn't have given a crap about my pain. If in Plan A, was that a lost opportunity? What could I have said?
When I got on the computer tonight, he was logged on and didn't say anything at all, just logged off. It's so typical of him now, but man.
He didn't acknowledge my email one bit, but he did email my son and say "Yes it is sad", and then another email saying "I knew he was your favorite player".
I was just sitting here thinking about that. My HUSBAND just isn't in there anymore. My HUSBAND KNOWS how hard I would be taking this and for him not to even say one word just reinforces what a MONSTER he is. It still hurts knowing that this PERSON who lives inside the body is cold, selfish and downright something.
Mimi, for some reason this seems like a sign that he is so far gone, that his affair really wont' last and when he wakes up one day, he will be mortified at what he has done. Am I stupid to think this?
Also, did you get a chance to see my posting about the events that I ran into today about OW and her demands, etc? What do you think about those, or in the bigger picture it really doesn't matter.
I have to say, when I was driving home from my 2nd job tonight, it dawned on me, that OW may have the body, but she doesn't have MY HUSBAND, b/c he doesn't exist. She has a monster that quite frankly I can't stand and wouldn't want.
It still hurts so bad though.
JT - It was sunny. I hear we might get snow, but no luck. Remember, last year was the big ice storm at this time. When I was oblivious to what hubby was doing and living a lie.
I was just sitting here thinking about that. My HUSBAND just isn't in there anymore. My HUSBAND KNOWS how hard I would be taking this and for him not to even say one word just reinforces what a MONSTER he is. It still hurts knowing that this PERSON who lives inside the body is cold, selfish and downright something.
SG,
I remember this exact feeling. I remember staring straight at him in our home one day when he was picking up the kids. He stood about 3 feet from me. I was staring at his profile while he talked to one of the kids. At that moment he even LOOKED different. I stood their staring (he didn't even notice), thinking to myself, "Who is this man in front of me. It sure as he(( is not my H. WHERE HAS HE GONE?!"
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Mimi, for some reason this seems like a sign that he is so far gone, that his affair really wont' last and when he wakes up one day, he will be mortified at what he has done. Am I stupid to think this?
I'm not Mimi, but I want to tell you that you are NOT stupid to think this. He WILL be mortified...and devastated, and overwhelmed with guilt AND GRIEF. But the waiting is almost unbearable at times for us BS. My H returned from the mothership 6 months after D-day. I expected 10 years. I really did. It took his mom decades to reach that point and his father is happily remarried and thinks it all worked out for the best. I expected my H to follow the example that had been set. God had different plans. What we cannot predict is God's timing. Just follow the plans and let God do the rest. Who knows what he has in store for you. This is the verse I would cling to: "I know the plans I have for you, not to harm you but to prosper you."
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How I wish I could go back.
I remember feeling this, too. But going back would mean facing this all over again. Hang in there. You will get through this.
"He heals the broken heartede and binds up their wounds."
I didn't call him, I emailed him about it. I told him that he was my son's favorite player and was taking it hard. The last time I called him to talk to him about our children, he didnt' call me back.
I'm sorry that I'm not being clear enough to you. This is hard to do. I KNOW. Remember that PLAN A is all about YOU, becoming the BEST PERSON that YOU CAN BE. It is not ATTRACTIVE to be NEEDY of him or to give any inclination that you are begging and pleading for him to care. I was thinking in terms of A CONVERSATION with him. CONVERSATION is one of the ENs. PLAN A is SIMPLE NOT EASY. When I say SIMPLE, I mean that it's about using any occasion that you can to convey your ABILITY to MEET HIS NEEDS. So I was thinking that the football player is something that you have in common that you two could discuss. E-mailing, IMO, does not have the same APPEAL as the HUMAN VOICE, even on VOICEMAIL. I call my H sometimes and leave messages when I KNOW that he will be unable to pick up. He LOVES some of these MESSAGES. "Was just thinking of you and wanted to say HI", etc.
In order to do this PLAN A, for a bit, we are going to have to help boost your confidence level. Most importantly, you are going to have to work on that confidence level.
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He didn't acknowledge my email one bit, but he did email my son and say "Yes it is sad", and then another email saying "I knew he was your favorite player".
Isn't this acknowledging your E-mail? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
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I was just sitting here thinking about that. My HUSBAND just isn't in there anymore. My HUSBAND KNOWS how hard I would be taking this and for him not to even say one word just reinforces what a MONSTER he is. It still hurts knowing that this PERSON who lives inside the body is cold, selfish and downright something.
ACCEPTANCE of this is the KEY. Stop thinking and DO SOMETHING. I hope this doesn't sound harsh but belaboring this obvious point is NOT HELPFUL, IMO. I came to the place of ACCEPTANCE..just like I had to ACCEPT that my loved ones are DEAD AND GONE. But your H is still alive and has the possibility of returning IF you just don't sit there and THINK. Understand what I mean?
Yes...when and if he wakes up, he will be mortified. I see that PAIN on my H's face about it almost daily..when there are triggers..in the news..or TV shows, etc....
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Also, did you get a chance to see my posting about the events that I ran into today about OW and her demands, etc? What do you think about those, or in the bigger picture it really doesn't matter.
What matters is WHAT YOU DO...THEY are gonna be doing some CRAZY STUFF..it's a SICK RELATIONSHIP..you need to ACCEPT that and really don't need to hear or learn much about it..THEY will BREAK UP TO MAKE UP..OVERINDULGE..do all sorts of stuff that EVILDOERS engage in...
It's important for YOU to come up with YOUR PLAN of action...that's about YOU..not want YOU want from him...
Going back would put you in that same old relationship which was OPEN to the AFFAIR.
And in REALITY it is NOT gonna happen. You cannot go back.
YOU HAVE TODAY. YOU HAVE THIS MOMENT. Your GOAL is to focus on TODAY. What can YOU DO TODAY? Your goal is to become PRESENT-FOCUSED. Sounds morbid but TOMORROW is not promised for any of us.
In terms of your relationship for the FUTURE, YOUR HOPE is for a BETTER one than you had before......that's a long ways off..cause remember WHEN AND IF your H returns, he will be BROKEN and then there's that LOOOOONG RECOVERY ROAD...
YOU have got to begin to work on YOU to get prepared for all of the ABOVE...
Ok.. I haven't had a lot to add to this post other than to thank many people for the wonderful advice they are giving. I'm seeking many of the same answers myself and wanted Mimi to know just how grateful I am to have her posting around her.
This is great advice.. stuff I need to take to heart.
SG.. keep your chin up girl. You're going to make it through this. I know the daily chaos is not easy for you, and I know you trigger very easily based on what you believe your WH -should- be doing rather than focusing on what IS.. and what is within your sphere of control. I have the same problem.
The only way to find peace is to let go of what you cannot control. We cannot see the other side of the mountain.. if we trust God to be working in the lives of our waywards, does it make -any- sense at all to be trying to look over His shoulder? Checking His work? You think you can do it better than Him?
The answer is no.. if God is who we put our faith in, then we need to put our faith in Him completely to do His work.
I'm starting to think of it like this... in Sirach it goes on about how a good wife is the blessing of a godly man (and obviously the reverse is true as well).. Speaking in terms of my sitch, my wife is -not- a good wife. But God alone has the power to show her the things in her life, and ways that she -can- become a good wife. God is faithful.. He will persist even when she chooses not to see. God is slow to anger, but wrath is his alone. Some waywards will not break until their lives are broken first.. and for a wayward to change a breakdown must occur. God is slow to anger.. it takes time. We also must be patient and trust that God is doing the work that needs to be done.
To have our waywards return prematurely would only result in false recoveries and harm to us and our emotional well-being. I don't believe God would want that for either of us.
God tells us to 'Wait for the LORD'.. and so that is what we should do.. but He also tells us that our desire should not be on worldly needs (like our spouses) but to walk closer with Him.. and in that walking closer with Him, we will be blessed with His comfort, and His love, and ultimately a 'good spouse'.. whether it is our WS or another, it will be the spouse God has taken us to this point in our lives to find.
I have read your story and posts and I am so excited for you. Thank you for your support, and please keep it coming.
Mimi,
You have my permission to hit me with a 2 X 4 or whatever else you need to get me to understand what it is I am involved in. I woke up this morning in a weird place. At first, I was thinking I was so far from G-d, but then in my morning prayers I realized that I am actually at a place of peace. I can't even imagine this being possible. Maybe the ACCEPTANCE has hit me. At least for TODAY.
Please know I NEED to learn how to be the very best Plan A I can be. I am a STUDENT and desire to learn, no matter how hard it is for me to accept or understand what you are telling me. So, please don't hold back. There is no space in my world for being nice to me or holding back because of my ego or any hurt feelings that I might get. This is about me becoming the VERY BEST person I can be for G-d.
I know this may seem STUPID, but HOW do I work on my confidence level. What am I missing, because I clearly am.
How do I begin to have my PLAN for TODAY. How did you begin to recognize when you were just FOCUSED on today? Did you write things down, talk to yourself? Does this mean forget about what WH and OW are doing and just live my life?
I need help DEFINING what my plan of action is. Can you please give me more help in this. I'm sorry to be so slow on this one.
Your right, he did acknowledge my email. I REALLY need to learn to recognize when I AM working MY PLAN and when I am NOT, so I can self adjust myself.
Is this what you are trying to get me to SEE?
Jamesus,
You are always a step ahead of me. For JUST TODAY, I am really understanding that what is going on over there is completely out of my control and in essence part of G-ds PLAN. I can't worry about what they are DOING, because I have so much WORK to do for myself and I have to just concentrate on myself.
This is what you have to BELIEVE and keep telling yourself to boost your confidence level.
HEAD UP..CHEST OUT: "I am his wife. God put us together and wants us to be together. With God holding me and guiding me, I can do whatever I can do to fight the forces of EVIL that are trying to keep us apart and when I have done all that I can possibly do, I will turn this over to GOD." THIS IS WHAT I WOULD TELL MYSELF.
That's the KEY, SG. YOU ARE HIS WIFE!! You know HIM. You know what HE LIKES. You know deep down inside what you need to do. I can't tell you EXACTLY what to do to meet YOUR HUSBAND'S NEEDS. YOU..ONLY YOU..KNOW HIM better than anyone else. Whatever attracted him to YOU in the past, will be attractive to HIM now. This is what STEVE HARLEY asked of me. "When you were courting way back then, what did you do to ATTRACT HIM?" Steve was EXACTLY right. It's the SAME. Your H wants YOU back. You know how to cook the food he likes. You know what he likes to talk about. You have HIS HISTORY...
Call him and even if his VOICEMAIL answers. LEAVE A MESSAGE and in your sweetest, most UPLIFTING VOICE, feeling GREAT like you today, tell him what YOU THINK he would LIKE to hear you say TODAY!!!
I KNEW my HUBBY, not this WS. My HUBBY needs to feel like the most important person in my life, the center of my world, through spending time with him and appreciating him all the time.
I could call him and INVITE him to go on a walk with me to talk about the kids and what I am doing to raise him, get his opinion and input?
Tuesday, I can drive down to work and bring him warm latkes for Hannukah?
Is this what you mean? I have to admit, I am struggling with his, sorry. I KNOW what makes my HUBBY happy. I just don't know how to do it when he isn't at home. What am I missing here?
Sorry. I don't buy this, SG. So you were only A TAKER. What did you GIVE in the relationship.
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I KNEW my HUBBY,
That's who you want to APPEAL to..not the WS...SHE HAS THE WS...
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I could call him and INVITE him to go on a walk with me to talk about the kids and what I am doing to raise him, get his opinion and input?
First CALL HIM..and if he does agree to go on a walk, DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE KIDS..you and him..COURTSHIP..you being HIS WOMAN..not the MOTHER OF HIS KIDS...don't allow yourself to be stuck only to THAT ROLE...that's a real trigger for me.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
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I KNOW what makes my HUBBY happy. I just don't know how to do it when he isn't at home.
So tell me some more about THIS COURTSHIP that you didn't participate in...he wasn't LIVING AT HOME when you first got together...
Why did he do ALL OF THIS COURTING of you??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Yes, first and foremost my HUBBY NEEDS to be number one. That is absolutely the foundation of what I have to figure out how to create.
He loved me way MORE than I loved him. I just settled for him because I didn't THINK anyone else would want me. That and the fact that he had GREAT DRUGS. Our life at that time was just DRUGS and we built our relationship around that.
I wasn't in love him when I married him. I NEVER made him feel like he was Number One. I have no idea why he loved me. Our LIVE was DRUGS and we just got married.
The two of us have had NO other relationship than each other until this OW. I think he has just as a low self esteem as me and didn't know any difference or want to keep looking.
I think if I had to pick what attracted him to me was my love of life and adventure, but I really DON'T know.
I will say - he fought his parents to be with me because I was Jewish and they hated that. He loved me deeply once, but I don't know why.
You CAN do this. It doesn't matter whether he accepts. Your goal is to invite him to be a part of the family (at least right now it is).
I remember doing this when I invited FWH to stop by our son's birthday party if he would like. I KNEW he would not come by. I really did it to REMIND him of where he belonged. I did it in a pleasant, loving way. And--the key--be pleasant NO MATTER how he responds. He may say yes, he may say no, he may hee haw around and never really give an answer. Just keep your calm. There is a dettachment that goes along with this. You plan what you do, but NEVER expect anything to actually work. Just keep smiling and saying something like, "OK, maybe another time." Oh, well, we'll miss you, but I'm sure we'll have a great time." Whatever, can keep you smiling. Just one quick line and you're gone...smiling....of course.
Smartie here. SMB is right on the money--you can do this. Look at it this way: any woman who can lose 73 lbs, kick addiction, hold down a job, raise teenage kids and still find time to lend support to another BW in NC can do ANYTHING. (Certainly Plan A a silly ol' wayward... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)
He answered and it blew me away. He was cautious at first. He asked "what's up".
I said, well I have a weird question, I am wanting to join an ultimate frisbee team (which is actually the truth), and I need someone to help me get ready. I was wondering if you would help me. He was silent at first, and then we talked about where the team was that I was looking at. I had looked online to find possible teams. And then we talked about the boys.
He acknowledged the email I sent him by saying he emailed my YS, I told him thank you and I really appreciated that. And he kept talking.
He thanked me for the stuffing and the jello. He asked for the RECIPE, and I calmly said it was in my head. He named off the ingredients, but I never told him how much. I just kept saying, yes I can do it that way or not. He tried making it, but it wasn't right. Of course not, he didn't use the right ingredients and I didn't offer what he was doing wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And then in the end he said that would be a possibility and when would I like to go. I said, well check your schedule and let me know what works for you. He offered a couple of suggestions for getting ready and I thanked him.
He told me he would talk to me soon. I KNOW he is interested in doing it. You see, and this is the BRILLIANT part, in college, one of our most favorite things to do together was play frisbee. In fact, I KNOW he would like to play on a team again.
Mimi,
I am bowing at your feet for helping me.
Thank you all so much and your belief that I could do it. Next step in building my confidence.
Ultimate frisbee eh? There are lots of tournaments at the Skagit River Park just down the road from me-if you ever do come up this way, let me know and I'll wander on down and watch.
Please don't BOW to me. You and I both know who is all in this and that's who we need to BOW to...who brought ME here..to be mentored during my trials..and now passing on down to you..it gives me the CHILLS..how AWESOME and GREAT..HE is...
And then there's YOU...it's YOU..that knows YOUR OWN HUSBAND..I got out my calculator..married for 24 years...YOU KNOW HIM..TRUST YOUR GUT..I'm your BOOSTER..you basically know what to do...
It was YOU that came up with THE FRISBEE IDEA..I never heard of ULTIMATE FRISBEE TEAMS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I want you to TAKE A BOW..while we CLAP....
Do you realize all of the ENs that you showed the potential to MEET in THAT ONE CONVERSATION..AWESOME, AWESOME PLAN A STUFF...CONVERSATION, ADMIRATION..asking for his help..RECREATIONAL COMPANIONSHIP...and next PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS...what's going to be "THE OUTFIT" for this occasion...
You're gonna call him again and invite him out once you have it ALL PLANNED...
Isn't it exciting??? Like going on a date...
But yes, DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING FROM HIM although he has GIVEN more than we expected...
He's been MISSING YOU, of course, in your "modified Plan B" (or whatever)..that is some VALUABLE INFO.
This is gonna be about GIVE, GIVE, GIVE...meeting those needs...
What I learned was that I HAD THE PLAN. My WH was CLUELESS....
SO AWESOME!!! Mimi is the goddess queen. I'll help you pick an oufit (via telephone/email of course) so you can start to blow WH away--and bring H back!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Actually we have been together for over 29 years. I KNOW he needs to be #1 in my life, plain and simple and somehow my Plan A has to create that no matter what.
I can ASSURE you, the entire time I was on the phone, thanking G-d and praying to him for his gift and blessing of what was happening. Right after the call, I kept telling G-d over and over how much I appreciated his gift and to please use me as he needed so that I could be in his will at all times.
Ultimate frisbee teams was another G-d gift. This summer when H was waffling about coming home, and I was doing a Plan A of recreational companionship, I went to one of his lacrosse games. Across the field they were playing ultimate frisbee. After his game and us talking, I told him that I would look into a frisbee team and he said he would like to play. I KNEW the walk wouldn't really interest him b/c he can do that with her. BUT the frisbee, that is OUR thing and I could hear it in his voice how interested he was. And he kept talking and asking questions.
I was so grateful for this opportunity, that you are so right, it was a gift from G-d and no one else.
You don't think I should wait and see if he calls me first? I could give it until next week, and then call him again. That would be AFTER I bring hot latkes down to him on Tuesday in honor of Hanukkah.
AND I happen to have a small gift of pictures of my son and his neices. What do you THINK?
As for dress? I have been so fat for so many years, he never gave my dress a second thought. He hasn't seen me since I was down 50 lbs and now it's almost 78. I was thinking about wearing my spandex pants, with my hold them in underwear and a little tight sweatshirt. What do you think? I am taking ANY suggestions.
Smartiepants - you are ON to help me pick out an outfit.
As you all say, I NEED to keep this in perspective. YES, it was a AWESOME call, but he didn't say YES. He only said it was a possibility. I have NO expectations that he really will meet me, but I am TAKING this one small moment and thanking G-d and for those of you who have been kind and patient to help me.
Mimi,
Build me confidence moment please - He's been MISSING YOU, of course, in your "modified Plan B" (or whatever)..that is some VALUABLE INFO.
How do you KNOW this? And what can I do with this INFO?
Thank you for your encouragement. And you are right, I am MAKING the impact on him.
JT, I promise that if I can make a team and we show up there, I am so there to meet you. How fun is that?
Hey Smartie, you are the best and I can't wait to meet you one day. We are going to HAVE so much fun.
Jamesus, trust me, I have this in perspective. He said it was a possiblity, not yes. But he did take it a tad further and make a suggestion on how to train for it. The truth is, I would love to get on a frisbee team and would love to have him join me, so he REALLY would be helping me train for something that is NEW, Healthy, and completely different than the OLD me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mimi,
I am up for more confidence building. What's next? It doesn't necessarily need to include the H, but working on myself. OK?
Sleep well all of you. May G-d bless us with a restful night and peace knowing he is working in our lives no matter what.
How about one of those E-cards? I only know about the ones that you get on the site that sells book and starts with an A....they have funny ones with songs...
"I so enjoyed talking with you today..you helped me so much with my plans to train for the frisbee team." ( or whatever SG wants to say)....SHORT BUT SWEET...
And what a brilliant idea...something OW CAN'T do with him. What good memories this could stir up!
I like the card idea, too.
And following up with him once you have the plans. You asked about waiting to see if he calls; but I see that as, perhaps, expecting something from him. Then you are setting yourself up for an ride on the roller coaster.
Don't test him to see if you are making an impact. You already know you are. It doesn't really matter if he calls about it. What matters is that he sees you wanting to meet his needs.
Oh thank you so much for your support. I can't tell you how nervous I was. Like a teenage girl. Hard to believe I have been with this man for over 29 years the way I act.
I see what you mean. Though I don't want to seem like I am pressuring him. I do want to clarify, you think I should not wait for him to call me or in my mind not even give it thought?
My goal is for him to KNOW that he is NUMBER ONE in my life.
Mimi is working hard to build my confidence. What suggestions do you have for me?
Oh thank you so much for your support. I can't tell you how nervous I was. Like a teenage girl. Hard to believe I have been with this man for over 29 years the way I act.
I see what you mean. Though I don't want to seem like I am pressuring him. I do want to clarify, you think I should not wait for him to call me or in my mind not even give it thought?
My goal is for him to KNOW that he is NUMBER ONE in my life.
Mimi is working hard to build my confidence. What suggestions do you have for me?
For the two of you,
How do you KNOW that I am making an impact. This is where things are a little cloudy for me.
How do you KNOW that I am making an impact. This is where things are a little cloudy for me.
Remember: THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU...having confidence in YOURSELF..knowing that YOU ARE HIS WIFE..and YOU KNOW HIM BEST..the OW is just doing guesswork...everyday is a new day with them...
The WS will not necessarily let you know that you are having impact..and worrying and thinking about THAT is a NO-NO
This is about YOU..MOVING FORWARD..with YOUR PLAN OF ACTION..not caring what HE is saying or thinking...
AS LONG AS YOU ARE MEETING HIS ENs and/or EVIDENCING your CAPACITY to do so YOU ARE MAKING IMPACT..BELIEVE IN THE MBer's SYSTEM...
That's what I did..
I only had EVIDENCE from HIM of MY IMPACT when my H started begging me to reconcile....During PLAN A, he gave THE IMPRESSION that I was hitting a BRICK WALL..
It was ABOUT ME..doing what I knew was the GOOD and RIGHT things for ME to do as HIS WIFE...cooking his special meals, that she knew nothing about..reminiscing about our special times in the past..telling him that I was sorry about my mistakes...and on and on...
Ok, sometimes I need to reword things to better understand them. Not because I am trying to be stupid or difficult.
So the point I believe you are trying to make is I am doing this stuff because I LOVE my HUSBAND and want my marriage to restored.
This has NOTHING to do with him, how he reacts or doesn't react. And EVERYTHING to do with me and understanding that as HIS WIFE, I know him better than anyone else in this world.
My PLAN of ACTION is to win my H back by moving forward and creating a life that he would WANT to come home to.
There is no competition between me and OW, the competition is in myself and I HAVE to stop it. Do what I do BEST and leave the rest to G-d.
I KNOW this man, I KNOW what makes him happy and to STOP being afraid to what I do BEST which is love him with all my heart.
Ultimately, I am my OWN worst enemy because when I am afraid, I am blocking G-d out.
Ok, wait, maybe I have one last personal recovery question.
Since I am creating a new life for me, but ultimately I want my husband to come home. How do I know that what I am doing here is truly walking in G-ds will and not my own will?
I have to tell ya, that in the last two days, I have had more people tell me I have NEVER looked better and there is more of a peace to me.
Well..WSes by nature are NARCISSISTIC so he wants to TALK about himself..
I would suggest asking him about HIS JOB or any of his FAVORITE HOBBIES or PASTIMES..did you mention a LACROSSE TEAM???
Also, to meet the ADMIRATION NEED, don't you have some more questions about training for the FRISBEE thingy??? Don't you soooo need his help with that?
I could totally talk to him about himself. BUT those would be topics that SHE would talk to him about. I thought you wanted topics that ONLY I knew about.
I did ask him about soccer over email and find out he still plays on Saturdays. I was going to pop up there one Saturday and get out if OW wasn't there. If she were there, would I want to be noticed?
I could totally ask him questions about the Frisbee thingy. Like how to build up my arm strength, what would be the most important attributes to have, etc. And YES, I SOO need his help with training.
He got the card, I got confirmation because of how I sent it.
So to recap, any subject is open that revolves around him. It doesn't just have to be what I KNOW about?
He needs an INVITE and yes WEAR the SPANDEX....cause he's gonna need to help you workout and stuff.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Smartiepants brought up something that I need a little help in handling.
She wrote: What will you do if he brings OW since she “insists” on being with him if he is with you or the kids?
How WILL I handle this? Remember no violence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, this is a good question that I need to be prepared for.
"I'm so glad you liked the card, etc. I was thinking. OLD BIG STRONG MAN OF MIND (don't say this but you want him to be thinking you are saying this), what's your idea about a good place for us to practice the frisbee and for you to give me workout tips..or whatever..
He brought her to my house after I asked him not to. And he brought to a lacrosse event with the boys. So, I need to just have a little warning on how to handle it Plan A style.
I absolutely confronted him "lovingly" both times. The lacrosse game it was by email and he apologized. The house, I drove home and told him that I really believe that I have been pretty understanding through this whole ordeal and that I only asked for a few things. ONE was to not BRING her to MY house.
He told me it was so THEY could see what THEY wanted for their house. I wanted to kill him, but then I remembered Love Busters, and somehow turned it around to him saying that there was a possiblity for US.
He was so into the victim role that he used the babble - I gave you everything I had.
As for expressing my anger...The OLD ME would have anniliated him with words and my anger. I have NEVER had a problem expressing my anger to him, but it all seems to pointless now and useless.
It was the new me that just loves him and was so desperate to not have the nail in the coffin that I just spoke clearly, to the point and then changed the subject.
He KNOWS I have changed, he just doesn't believe OUR MARRIAGE will have changed. And he is willing to put in HUGE amounts of effort to work on their relationship, but now OURS.
I defintely learned NOT to LB anymore. In fact, I haven't really shown any anger since D-Day. Not bad eh?
Ok, will say that once I get confirmation that he will meet me.
He still hasn't said anything for sure.
I do KNOW that I have to be careful not to pressure him and go WAY slowly. My HUSBAND is passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling. He loves chaos and loves to play games. That was the ONE thing that pushed me away was the games. And see, here I am in a way, putting myself in a position of the games. So any thoughts on how to healthily handle the timing stuff?
You see. You know him. Briefly reply, "I'm glad you liked the card" and then wait a few days.
I don't go for that analysis of his personality and all that, SG. I'm not saying that you are incorrect but for now let's consider him a standard WH...
I like that plan. Keeps it simple and acknowledges that his response to me. Remember my PLAN is to ensure he KNOWS that he is NUMBER ONE in my life no matter what. That is going to be the VERY ESSENCE of my success. And I think MY ONLY chance at winning him back. Does that make sense?
And I will let him know that our son is doing better. One other thing that really pushes his buttons is to not give him all the information he is looking for. Unfortunately the old me did that all the time.
Here's the truth. I am truly SCARED to do something like that. I have no confidence that I am even worth it.
This is SOOO important. I wish I had the right words to convey this to you. It was one of the most important things that I learned.
I "GOT IT" after reading LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. Dodson said that, in all of his years of helping couples, he determined that the ones that reconciled after an affair were the ones in which the BS was willing to let the WS GO....he insists that the BS has to be "tough" and to gain the WS' respect..
This was actually CONFIRMED to me by my H...first, he was blown away when I talked with him, using the Dodson approach..I told you about my speech when I told him that "I was letting him go.don't want you until you want me"..I could tell that blew his mind..it was a real turning point..my ATTRACTION POINTS went way up...
Then, since RECOVERY and over the years lately, this has been confirmed. My H actually says stuff like: "It's not ATTRACTIVE to me for you to allow yourself to be disrespected" (talking about when our sons talk back to me, etc.). He LOVES it that I speak up for myself now. No one likes a wimp.
Plus, he has said that he lost respect for me those years when he was evidently having an affair, coming in all times of the night, missing in action and I SAID NOTHING or either YELLED (I'm a FIGHT or FLIGHTER).
It's about LOW SELF-CONFIDENCE. I didn't not VALUE MYSELF and did not recognize HOW MUCH MY HUSBAND LOVED ME. You said this, too, about yourself.
YOU WILL NEED TO GAIN HIS RESPECT or else why should he want YOU? He wants to be with someone who is WORTHY.
You are a PRECIOUS GEM. She is GLASS. Insist on getting what your rightfully deserve and if he does not step up and give that to you then YOU DON'T WANT HIM.
You will not WIN him back through BEGGING, PLEADING or BEING "NICE". He will not appreciate you as a person of value that way. Most importantly, you will not appreciate yourself.
What he is doing is WRONG! Stand up and speak the truth about that. Regardless of the part that you played in your marital issues, what he is doing NOW is WRONG, abandoning his family and not giving you what you rightfully deserve, giving it to another woman..WRONG, WRONG, WRONG..and he KNOWS THIS...
He is thinking of you as A FOOL for putting up with it and who wants to be with a FOOL?
Get my point?
It took me awhile to get this but get this now I do.
As I look back over my time here, I consider this one of the GREATEST GIFTS that I received from this forum.
I remain here for that sustenance.
The POWER helps me in my MARRIAGE to this day.
It weathers me through CONFLICTS with my H..yes CONFLICTS from which I used to FLEE..I walk head on into them and SPEAK MY TRUTH...and I see my H valuing ME and RESPECTING ME...AHHHH...PERSONAL POWER....I LOVE IT!!!
Becoming convicted to WORK YOUR PLAN will lead you HERE to where I am...
It has to be YOUR PLAN..not about HIM...
It has to be how YOU WANT TO CHANGE TO MAKE YOURSELF INTO A BETTER PERSON...
Then THE PLAN is REAL, SINCERE AND MEANINGFUL to YOU and that will be communicated to your WS and others....
Starting with the FOCUS ON YOURSELF prepares you for PLAN B which takes all the PERSONAL STRENGTH and CONVICTION a PERSON CAN BEAR...
It is hard to PERSEVERE AND ENDURE during PLAN B..it involves WITHDRAWAL from your WS and RECREATING YOUR LIFE...it did for me...
Yes, Plan B for me was ONLY 3 MONTH or so...but THE MENTAL PREPARATION, SOUL SEARCHING and LIFE CHANGES STARTED WAY BEFORE THEN on D-DAY...
I decided to CHANGE INTO THE NEW ME that I am today and have not turned back...and will not turn back...I WILL NOT BE THAT PERSON EVER EVER AGAIN...
I have a sense of PERSONAL POWER and PURPOSE..my H knows for sure that I WILL AND CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT HIM..I am certainly ENHANCED BY HIS PRESENCE IN MY LIFE..but also HIS LIFE IS ENHANCED BY ME....
I felt compelled to say this this morning...
I am so thankful for getting to this place...
It is VITAL FOR YOU GUYS..especially MY GIRLS..to get HERE, TOO...
So basically, any HOPE of my marriage restoration has to come with me stepping UP and being respectful of myself. And be willing to let my husband go? As in go FOREVER and lose my marriage? Help me on this, please.
Ok, so your recommendation is a legal separation. And what do I do in the meantime? Should I email him about the shortage of money and ask him to give it to me?
WHAT would show me the MOST respect?
This is really HARD for me, I'm sorry to be such a woos. BUT I am trusting you and having faith in G-d that he will walk me through this and I will be ok no matter what.
I guess this is where FAITH and TRUST hit the rubber on the road and I have to just walk through the fear.
So basically, any HOPE of my marriage restoration has to come with me stepping UP and being respectful of myself. And be willing to let my husband go?
Exactly..because..sad for me to say to you..sad for me to realize myself at that time..YOU DON'T HAVE HIM ANYMORE...
You want him back, for sure..but he has to come back because he WANTS to BE WITH YOU...
Quote
Ok, so your recommendation is a legal separation. And what do I do in the meantime? Should I email him about the shortage of money and ask him to give it to me?
I recommend the legal separation.
I wouldn't ASK him for the money.
I would TELL HIM that he owes it and how and when you expect to get it.
My HUSBAND was the most giving person. This WS is something that is cold, dangerous and cruel. And completely unpredictable.
Ok, I have an appt with the lawyer to find out if even legally I can get that amount of money. I might be asking for something that the courts won't even back me up for.
Ok, I am stretching and building me up. Head is raising and chest is too. Progress yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As for the money, should I email or call him and how can I put it?
"We knew there was going to be a storm coming. Sometimes the Lord doesn't always bring you directly through it. Sometimes you have to work for it." - Tony Dungy after SB
This isn't an 'issue' between God and you. This is an issue you must overcome in order to walk more closely with God.
I got hit once on this board.. don't remember who it was, but they asked me this simple question: What would you do if you weren't afraid?
He says that it will cost 1500.00. I don't have that kind of money.
He did say that I could get probably 1000.00 for child support and then spousal maintenance which would actually give me more money than I want.
He also said the longer an informal agreement goes on, the better his case it built that I really don't need the money. Hmmm... I feel my strength building. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He says that it will cost 1500.00. I don't have that kind of money.
He did say that I could get probably 1000.00 for child support and then spousal maintenance which would actually give me more money than I want.
He also said the longer an informal agreement goes on, the better his case it built that I really don't need the money. Hmmm... I feel my strength building. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Can you call him back and ask him if they can go after WH for your attorney fees? Be honest and tell them that you have no money but WH does. Maybe they'll work out some kind of agreement with you.
Hubby doesn't have that kind of money either. I know where all his money is and it's not enough to pay for the attorney. He is supported crack head and living in squalor so to speak. I at least have a nice place to live, though it's WAY smaller than my house. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Sorry to barge in! I'm new here and don't even know how to post right, and i need so much help! totally overwhelmed by all of this. But reading MB has already helped a lot. I'm trying Plan A, but WH refuses NC, hopes still i'll throw him out. MArried 27 yrs, OW is 24yrs. younger than he. Its an EA online/Chats/phone, going on for over 4yrs. OW is single Mother, pretty, smart.They love each other soooo much! Thankfully we live thousands of miles apart.But her msg. is alwasy on, he is always online. WH is heavily mourning and withdrawing, and because of constant contact he'll never let go of her. I'd love to write her to tell her to let him go, but if she tells WH he'd see it as LB. I could write here for hours....we live in Europe, WH is American, like ow. what else can I do, since he can't give her up. He wants to go be with her, but waits for me to throw him out. WH says all the babble of WH. I work and he is retired, so he is at home all day, an homebuddy who loves his PC,but he takes good care of house. We do many things together, I spend all my free time with him. WHat can I do? He refuses!!!Since it's late here ).40 pm.) I#m coming back to check tomorrow, hoping for some help! Thank you all who are out here helping! N.
This ISN"T about HIM at ALL. It's so about me and not feeling like I am a WORTHY of this.
I'm sitting here crying at my desk because I feel so empty inside. I AM the one who blew this M and I can't even muster the self esteem to get a lawyer.
Who has experienced this and how did you get through it.
I'm sorry to be letting you down by not being more strong. I'm so ashamed.
Great news about the $$. Sounds like God has opened a door for you. Now are you going to walk through it or are you going to be like the children of Israel and complain about your fear when God is there the whole time providing a way? Remember, they wandered for 40 years unnecessarily! If only they'd realized that God was looking after them the whole time.
You can do this! Tell me. What do you really have to lose at this point?
File the LS. You need to protect your family's assets (yes, your family's-- you, WH and kids). WH can't be trusted to do the right thing at the moment.
How to tell him? Wait until he's served and then tell him you're protecting the family. BUT you won't discuss the details of the LS, you'll only discuss how to heal your marriage. Let your attorney do the hard stuff.
As to money that he owes you now, let it go if you can and address it with your attorney. He'll see to it that you're covered.
I just read the thread (I also responded to you via email). Honey you can do this!!! Mimi is right on the nose—get your H’s respect AS well as his love back. Just because you are in Plan A does not mean you do not have the right to secure what is RIGHTFULLY yours and your children’s.
I went to my attorney yesterday because I am filing an Alienation of Affection lawsuit against OW. Will it piss WH off? He!! yes! Is it the right thing to do? He!! yes! To not stand up to her as I should is to say by my actions “Well I really don’t value the M much or our vows, so go ahead kids do what you want-I won’t interfere.”
Thanks to OW’s part in this whole mess (and this is not get WH off the hook in any fashion--but OWH is taking care of him--LOL), I have lost the companionship, comfort and care of my H. If thieves came in my house and stole my TV, money, jewelry and I knew who they were, people would think I was a fool not to prosecute them under the law. Why shouldn’t I do the same over something far more important than objects—my H (even if he put himself out there)? My attorney put it best—bring the suit because OW OWES me!
See what I’m saying. To save your M you have to fight for it—and that includes standing up and fighting for what is rightfully yours as his WIFE and the MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN. Don’t let him forget where his TRUE responsibilities lie!
You have nothing to fear when you do the right thing. Especially silly ol' WH. <smile>
That is a VERY good question. I guess nothing really. If I have to deal with REALITY, I don't have a HUBBY anymore and my kids need to be protected.
I am NOT going to wander in the desert. This is really a battle for my PERSONAL RECOVERY, and you are right, G-d is giving me that door. He is counting on me to become the woman he envinsions.
I actually have already told him a two months ago, when he brought OW to my house. So, I really don't need to say one word about that.
As for the money right now, too late, I already emailed him and this is what I said.
Good Shabbas,
I am really glad you thought the card was nice, you are very welcome. I am looking forward to you helping me get ready for the frisbee team. Yes, it was supposed to play music. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I take it from your questions, you didn't get that part.
YS is doing better. He is hoping that a jersey is in the Hanukkah future. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Have a blast at your soccer game tomorrow. I would love to come and watch you sometime.
Oh, have you made the difference up in deposits for me? I have lots of bills do this week and that shortage is making it way difficult. I have lacrosse registration, senior items, and need to get the boys some stuff that is more than my budget is able to handle. In case you think I am frivoulsly spending money like the trip to CA, let me assure you that your sister gave me the money to make the trip. I really want you to be confident I am being a good steward of your generosity. Thank you for taking care depositing the money. I really appreciate it.
You haven't explained, what is happening that the deposit isn't being split 50-50 like you and I had agreed upon? Why did you go to two banks instead of what we had agreed upon?
Have a wonderful Shabbat and awesome weekend. It's supposed to snow..... YEAH!!! BS
What do you think of this? Even if I have made mistakes, tell me so I know where to correct, ok?
This is the HUGEST step to recovery I have done yet. I KNOW Mimi is right, I just need a little more confidence building.
I will call the lawyer on Monday and get the ball rolling. I have placate HUBBY a little longer by asking for the money. I doubt he will give it, but we shall see.
I love you Smartie, you are so special to me and I am right there with ya, cheering you on.
I guess the guilt of what I did or didn't do in the M, plus the control Hubby has over me is controlling my actions. BUT, I KNOW people on here are pulling for me, ALL my friends and family are pulling for me (and there are LOTS),while my WH is wanting my demise. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> NO WAY, I WON'T let that MONSTER win. I LOVE my HUBBY too much to give up.
So here goes.
I am the WIFE, who is taking care of HIS KIDS day after day with no input or help from him other than MONEY. His OW sits at home all day long and does who knows what in crackland, while I work not just one job, but two. I also manage to do volunteer work to help out my community.
I am STRONG, I am LOVING, and I DESERVE all that is ENTITLED to me as his wife of almost 24 years.
If I want my M, I have to fight for my M and slew the dragons who are trying to take me down, even if it includes WH.
As for how you know what God wants... don't just pray, listen. Read the Word...
You get the same email I get.. you know what it says.. do your devotional.. read the Word.. listen.. look around you, God is present everywhere and he -wants- you to get His message.
Here's a story that should put this whole money issue in its rightful perspective.
I know a couple who began their relationship as an affair (OW was single, WH was married with 3 children). Eventually, after MANY years btw, he finally married OW.
One night we were having a drink together with another person after work (now don't 2x4 me guys--I met them after they were married and before I found MB!!). Anyway, OW/Wife says: "You guys would not believe how much of WH/H 's money still goes to XW every month--even after all these years! If WH/Husband did not have to pay XW so much alimony we could really live well. I'll probably have to work until I basically drop dead to afford a decent lifestyle because she gets alimony now (XW never remarried) and his kids get most of his estate after he dies."
Everyone got really quiet--then WH/H looked her dead in the face and said very calmly: "My XW stood by me when I started out with nothing. She kept our home and raised our children. I left our marriage--so it is only right that she and my children get all that I can give them now and going forward."
Not another word from OW on the subject!
Now, if a WH can get it, a goddess as smart as you can get it too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />!!
You need to protect your family's assets (yes, your family's-- you, WH and kids). WH can't be trusted to do the right thing at the moment.
This is a great point from The Princess...
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How to tell him? Wait until he's served and then tell him you're protecting the family. BUT you won't discuss the details of the LS, you'll only discuss how to heal your marriage.
In case you think I am frivoulsly spending money like the trip to CA, let me assure you that your sister gave me the money to make the trip. I really want you to be confident I am being a good steward of your generosity. Thank you for taking care depositing the money. I really appreciate it.
Do you see the problems with this part, now?
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You haven't explained, what is happening that the deposit isn't being split 50-50 like you and I had agreed upon? Why did you go to two banks instead of what we had agreed upon?
I have the answers to these questions. I'm not being funny.I'm serious. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Next time, check with US before you send an E-mail....
I'm not a legal expert but, as I am in the same state as you, I can tell you that the courts look at more than just "community property" issues when it comes to this. They look at the length of the M, who raised the kids, if you supported him while he was going to school or whatever. My aunt and uncle divorced after many years (and his many A's-when he wanted to marry the current OW). She had raised their 6 boys and been there during his years as a medical missionary in Korea.
My aunt was worried that she would get nothing because the kids were grown etc. The judge gave her the house, half his investments and half his retirement and maintenance up to a certain number of years. One of her sons is a finance expert and he has invested all that money well. (My uncle was a Mercer Island surgeon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)
I echo mimi. You are protecting your family from his insane choices right now. In our state, you can file separation and extend it for years! It is legally binding and he has to pay the financial agreement. Plus, any stupid decisions he makes during this separation fall on him-not you.
During the days of the prophet Elisha, when the Northern Kingdom was under siege and all those in the city of Samaria were starving for lack of food and some had even resorted to eating their own children to survive, there sat outside the gates of the city three lepers. As they discussed their fate one said "If we sit here outside the city gate, we will die, for we have no food." And another replied, "If we go into the city we will die, for there is no food in the city either."
Finally they said, "If we go to the enemy camp, the worst that can happen is that we will die because they will kill us...But IF they capture us, they will feed us and we might live though prisoners."
So they gathered up their courage and headed for the enemy camp.
Before they got there, God caused the enemy solders to hear the sound of thousands of chariots and troops coming in the distance. They thought that the Egyptians had signed a treaty with Israel and was sending their army to join the battle. So all of the solders abandoned everything and ran for their lives. They left their clothing, their weapons and tables set for dinner behind as they fled.
Of course there was no advancing Egyptian army, but when the three lepers arrived at the camp, they found tables set as if for a great feast. They filled themselves with food and stashed some of it away for later. They took for themselves some extra clothes and weapons and gold and silver.
Then they realized that they had the solution to the famine in the city right before them. So they sent word to the king and all of the city was saved from starvation, because when they took a step of faith and went where God had caused them to logically determine was the place to go, they found that God had gone before them and prepared the way for them and not only they, but all the people of the land were saved...They found the enemy was already gone because God had caused them to scatter... and they were satisfied with all that they needed...
David wrote in a Psalm..."Kings and armies flee in haste; in the camps men divide the plunder."
Sadly I am NOT clear completely on what I did wrong. But let me take a stab to see. My questions are #1 trying to reason with the WH, which is STUPID. #2 I am putting ideas into his head where there aren't any? #3 I look needy?
If I am really off, please tell me where. Your have PERMISSION to slam me. I want to LEARN and be the best I can, but this is so NEW and confidence is completely unchartered territory for me. So, please help me understand so I DON'T do it again.
I PROMISE NO MORE EMAILS UNTIL YOU SEE THEM FIRST!!!!!
For all,
I will have the money, and I will call the lawyer tomorrow or Monday and get the ball rolling.
I'm sorry to be such a sorry specimen. I am working through my issues of guilt, shame and regret for not being the wife that I could have been all along. I am truly working my hardest for personal recovery and then marriage restoration.
Please be patient!!!! One day.... You will see your successes in me, and it will make you PROUD!!! And maybe even ME TOO!!!
I have been revisiting what you have all said to me. As I am still LEARNING and PERFECTING this Plan A and ultimately Plan B, I thought I would offer up a little insight into my mind so that I can begin to see where my flaws are and change them IMMEDIATELY.
1. When H and I were together, I spent money frivously b/c I was looking to fill me up and buying things were one way. If I have CHANGED, and I have, then my H needs to be reassured that I am not spending money wastefully.
2. WH is in the total victim role right now and feels that he is completely sacrificing because he lives in a crap hole. Here I am taking trips to California, etc and when his "victim person" is in control he is very dangerous. The part of addressing this in the email was to buy "time" with THIS person and appeal to him that I do NEED the extra money and I am not being careless.
3. In the past, I would not have addressed these two items up front, b/c I was too busy playing the "game" with him and not clearly stating what I want or asking questions and just "assuming".
4. Getting him to commit into writing what we agreed upon and have it to take to the lawyer.
Since I KNOW my HUBBY better than anyone, having information and feeling like he is NUMBER ONE is absolutely the key to him believing I have changed. If I can't accomplish this, my chances of him coming home are greatly reduced. If my reasoning is WAY OFF, please tell me as well as helping me understand how I could have handled this Plan A style.
I will say, he has NOT responded, which is not a surprise. BUT this is NOT about him anymore, it's about ME, personally recovering and moving on. And in any new R, I need to understand what mistakes or where my actions are off. I NEVER want to go through this AGAIN!
On a side note, he emailed my YS and wished him Good Shabbas. The important piece here, is that those are MY words. He says Shabbot Shalom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Pep put it in terms of the CARROT and the STICK of PLAN A. That post is somewhere around here.
Like you, SG, I struggled and continue to struggle with the MAJOR MISTAKES that I made in the marriage. During PLAN A, I began to change and I have not turned back from working on those changes. I continue to still have those same tendencies so it's a day to day thing on staying on track. THIS IS MY WORK. THIS IS MY TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ERRORS. This is the PERSONAL RECOVERY piece that we talk about. So from now on, FOCUS ON YOURSELF and what YOU FEEL that YOU NEED TO DO to become a BETTER PERSON, not just a BETTER WIFE TO PLEASE HIM but a BETTER PERSON OVERALL. My changes have affected by ENTIRE LIFE. Daily I learn more and more about myself and I'm so thankful that I've decided to do that. You will be too because this has to be ABOUT YOU. The life that you once had is gone so MAKE THIS NEW LIFE better FOR YOURSELF because it may not include your WH. Got it?
Then there's THE MARRIAGE. You want that back. You feel that there's a FUTURE for you and your WH so you have decided to demonstrate YOUR CHANGES to HIM. You don't have to do this. This is a CHOICE that you are now making. So you let him know that YOU'VE decided to CHANGE your spending habits. DON'T DO IT FOR HIM. DO it for YOURSELF. That is the message. For your MARRIAGE'S SAKE, you are deciding to share YOUR CHANGES with him but you don't have to...Am I making sense.
It's about YOU...what YOU WANT TO CHANGE...then THE MARRIAGE...
And then there's YOUR WH. The way HE CHOSE to handle THE MARRIAGE PROBLEMS that YOU TWO were having was TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. He had other options. He could have packed up and left, gotten a divorce AND THEN become involved with another woman. Instead HE CHOSE to be LIE, BE DECEITFUL and even ABANDON HIS FAMILY and MOVE IN WITH THIS WOMAN..and then he continues TO NOT TAKE CARE OF HIS FAMILY. He needs to SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES of HIS OWN CHOICES.
You made YOUR MISTAKES which you own, YOUR MISTAKES affected YOUR MARRIAGE, he made his own contribution to the continued MARITAL PROBLEMS. Let's just say he was the PERFECT HUSBAND and it was ALL YOUR FAULT. It still was NOT OK for him to handle this by HAVING AN AFFAIR. That is one of the worst things that a person can do to anyone..right up there with rape..for your spouse to do that to you..I hate to even think about how my now dear husband did such a horrible thing to be (excuse this digression- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />)
SO TODAY: You are ON TOP and need to STAY ON TOP....
TODAY: You are the one who has made the choice to STAND UP for YOUR FAMILY and YOUR MARRIAGE...
TODAY: even if he was THE GOOD GUY in the past, he is the BAD GUY NOW and needs to be treated as such...
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU DO NOT LOVE HIM..that's why you are doing PLAN A..because you still have LOVE FOR HIM...but you should not ENABLE his BAD BEHAVIOR...
We are encouraging you to hold your head up and speak out for what is GOOD and RIGHT..you are doing this FOR HIM...
I'M ENCOURAGING YOU TO DEVELOP AN AIR OF SUPERIORITY..now, I guess...that's A BIG STEP, I KNOW..
I SAY RIGHT ON!! I SAY YOU ARE A BLESSING IN MY LIFE AND G-D is working miracles through your words to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
OK, no more feeling sorry or ashamed of the PAST. As my sponsor told me last night, that is who I WAS, I am NO longer that PERSON.
Today I am a WOMAN OF G-D, WIFE and MOTHER who walks in G-D'S will and claim my new M and new LIFE.
CHEST IS UP AND OUT, HEAD IS UP and I am WALKING PROUD OF THE LIFE I am CREATING b/c it's the LIFE I want to create. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And most important it's the LIFE that G-D wanted me to CREATE.
And today's MISSION/PLAN for me to keeping moving forward is:
I am off to go make a Santa suit for HUBBY's best friend. I only make quilts, but I haven't sewn in months and this is helping someone else out and doing service work for my community.
I have HAPPENED to have called H today and invited him to come over and check out how the progress is going. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well TODAY was the first time since this whole thing happened that I have truly ENJOYED my day.
It started off with my prayer and meditation time with G-d, then I went to Starbucks for coffee and ran into a former football player who played against my Redskins in a playoff game. It also turns out I know him from my business and what a GORGEOUS, RICH HUNK he was. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Then I went to lacrosse registration and felt ALIVE, almost A BRAND NEW ME. Still need to work on the confidence. BUT, my chest was out, and head held high and I had fun and laughed.
Then I came home, got my sewing machine together and went and the top part of a Santa suit. It snowed what I considered HARD. In the past I was very SCARED to drive and would have relied on my HUBBY to take me and pick me up. BUT I DID IT,MYSELF.
I came home and for the first time since this whole mess started, I LOVED having my place to myself. I almost felt like the old/new me.
I am so grateful to G-d today for this day and will reflect on that tonight in my prayers to him.
It's snowing hard tonight and I wish my husband were here, not because I am SAD, but because of the joy I know the snow brings the two of us when we are at home and having family time. I can reminice with love in my heart tonight.
Ok, so I do have some side news that really doesn't change MY LIFE, or MY PLAN, but helps to have FAITH, that the A will end one day.
Evidently OW disappeared AGAIN, OVERNIGHT some weeks ago and my H was furious. I don't necessarily get any enjoyment, because as an addict myself my heart goes out to her for being so sick. Somehow it helps to know that they are both caught up in something that is beyond anything I would want to be a part of.
I sit at home TONIGHT, with my boys and it snowing outside and I am VERY GRATEFUL to so many people for not giving up on ME.
I don't know what tomorrow brings, but I do KNOW that for just today, I felt ALIVE and HAD JOY AND LIFE IN MY HEART and SOUL.
I wish you all a wonderful day. My Redskins play their first game without Sean Taylor and I wish I could be at the game paying respects.
I know most think this is stupid, but this team means so much to me. When times are down, they are my enjoyment. I'm sad today that someone so young with a life so promising was cut short.
I walk in trust of G-d, in fact this morning Psalm 31 was where G-d directed me.
I guess I am just needing a hug and my HUBBY isn't here to give it. So I send it to those of you who have supported me and those of your who are in pain today.
Thank you. My PERSONAL GROWTH is because I listened to people here, keep fighting for SURVIVAL, but more than anything I sought G-d. He is the one who keeps me alive on days like this. And he is the one I owe all my appreciation to for days like yesterday.
Did you get much snow? We didn't in the valley but my oldest sis in Poulsbo has about 12 inches! The winds are howling here.
I wanted to give you this verse:
Isa. 40:31
They that wait upon the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar with wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary; they shall walk and not faint.
I read that eagles can soar to a height of 14,000 feet (think Mt. Rainier) by catching the updrafts from thermals from the earth. That put it into perspective for me.
Also, the word "wait" can also mean "cling" in Hebrew.
You are in good hands-the Lord of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
You are such a blessing right now. I am really struggling. I learned something about my WH that just has been overcome with grief and sadness and not understanding.
This is perfect and right now you are a gift from G-d. I begged him for help and he sent you, thank you.
WE got a lot of snow last night, but it was raining by this morning. On my way out to sew the Santa outfit I hit a car behind me. Not a good start to the day.
And then the Redskins lost with 4 seconds left. Heartbreaking, this whole week losing this player is really hard.
I'm trying so hard to be brave and strong and stick to G-d. My problem is that I talk to people away from these boards and they say there is no HOPE. And I buy into it. I HAVE TO STOP TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO0 DON'T UNDERSTAND THE WH MENTALITY OR LACK OF IT.
How are YOU doing? What are you doing for yourself?
A Jewish girl sewing a Santa suit? That made me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm sorry that today has been tough for you. But, I am so honored that God sent ME to you today-it's always amazing when He does that.
I am sorry about the Redskins. It's tough when a favorite team loses. Especially on top of the loss they suffered this week with their player.
My son goes to Burlington-Edison and they lost the state 2A championship by a huge margin. It was sooo disappointing for them. But their girls' soccer team came in second in state, Cross County was 1st and girls' volleyball was 7th. Not too bad.
What have I been doing for me lately? Today after church I went walking in the wind. I love when it's blustery. I've been pulling out decorations and making the house festive. Not sure if the lights will stay up in the wind, but that gives the boys a chance to climb around in the roof (not when it's windy though-).
Sorry about your WH and the newest thing you've learned. It's best to give those things over to God. Even if we don't understand, we can trust that God does, and He can turn it into something good as we trust in Him. It's like the part in the story of Joseph when he reveals himself to his brothers and says to them that what they intended for evil, God used for good-to save them all.
Not just a Jewish girl sewing Santa, byt Santa himself is Jewish. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It is amazing how G-d works in our lives. How is the weather now? I hear we are getting in another huge storm.
How do YOU turn things over to G-d. Is there a prayer you say or just in your mind. I usually beg him to take it and you know tonight something happened.
I was so distraught when I got home and with the loss I got on my knees for the first time in a LONG time and asked him to help me. Show me what to do. I read a few pages of Torah which he guided me to the Psalm where it says to have confidence in the Lord. And then I got to see read your post. I REALLY believe that somehow I need to strengthen my trust in G-d that he is working out something HUGE in my husband.
I just get scared or lonely or whatever and talk to people and people don't understand and think I should just get rid of him. And then I spiral downward. SO, I need to just come here because you all understand the feelings and TRUST G-d and RELY on him for everything right now. Is that ok to do?
One more thing going through my head that I need to resolve,
The wayward is an addict who can't live without his fix, correct? And I get that includes walking out on a family, blah, blah, blah. What I am having trouble grasping is that WH knows to have a relationship with HER will take a HUGE amount of work. And yet, he wants to over be with me.
And, I knowing that she is disappearing once a month to use, he tolerates something he would NEVER been a part of with me.
They CHANGE this much and this is a typical wayward?
I just get scared or lonely or whatever and talk to people and people don't understand and think I should just get rid of him. And then I spiral downward.
When that would happen to ME, I KNEW that I was talking to the WRONG PEOPLE. Even on my GREATEST DAYS now, I choose carefully who I talk to about certain things. Another lesson from all of this..some folks are UPLIFTERS and others are not..You will learn who your REAL FRIENDS are...
Here's where the SELF-CONFIDENCE comes in again. YOU are in charge of what YOU BELIEVE IN..you don't need to FOLLOW or go along with the BELIEFS of others. If you find that a person is not supportive of you or GOOD for you at THAT TIME or EVER then YOU can CHOOSE to LIMIT your time with that person. YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF YOUR OWN DESTINY..what YOU believe in..what YOU do...each of us walks to the step of a DIFFERENT DRUMMER (quoting from a poem).
You asked me what I gained from this..MYSELF..THE FREEDOM TO BE MYSELF...
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TRUST G-d and RELY on him for everything right now. Is that ok to do?
ABSOLUTELY and according to MY BELIEF and JT's and others..HE has led YOU here and led US here to share with you...
And you've already begun HELPING others..I read your wonderful post to that newcomer on another thread...AWESOME..that's the PERSONAL GROWTH that I was speaking of...
Everything happens for A REASON..
We can't comprehend HIS PLANS...we can only TRUST IN HIM...
What I am having trouble grasping is that WH knows to have a relationship with HER will take a HUGE amount of work. And yet, he wants to over be with me.
And, I knowing that she is disappearing once a month to use, he tolerates something he would NEVER been a part of with me.
THEIR RELATIONSHIP is THEIR RELATIONSHIP...You are not going to UNDERSTAND it and don't need to understand it...
All that really HELPS is to ACCEPT that it is SICK and EVIL and that YOU want no parts of it...
It's like comparing APPLES and ORANGES..or moreso like comparing a BANQUET to CRUMBS OFF THE FLOOR...
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And, I knowing that she is disappearing once a month to use, he tolerates something he would NEVER been a part of with me.
And you most definitely can't compare YOURSELF to HER..you don't want him to treat you in anyway like he treats her...
SICK..SICK..SICK..and you know that when and if he comes back, he will come back BROKEN and SICK..so you need to focus on getting yourself STRONGER..
Keep that AIR OF SUPERIORITY that I was speaking to you about...THEY ARE IN THE GUTTER..don't even go there in the hopes of making any sense of that MESS...
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They CHANGE this much and this is a typical wayward?
How do they get there?
Yes, they change THAT MUCH..
You of all people KNOW how a person can be changed by an ADDICTION...
SG, A TYPICAL WS will do things totally out of character from the point of view of anyone that knows them. They don't make sense at all...This is what makes them typical.
They can't be figured out by logic because they aren't being logical. You can't compare what they are doing to what they once did because they aren't acting from the same motivations as before. They have been abducted by aliens...The WH is NOT your H and so won't act like your H because he is someone else.
Quote from you: You of all people KNOW how a person can be changed by an ADDICTION...
I was just talking about that in my AA meeting tonight. I have been sober SO LONG that I forget what it was like and that's scary to me.
He is actively in an ADDICTION, and if I can just remember that AT ALL TIMES, then I 1. won't take this so personally and 2. I will be WAY MORE objective to protect myself and do whatever it is I NEED to do.
Ok, HEADS UP, CHIN UP AND CHEST OUT..... I am the CLEAN, SOBER AND RECOVERING WIFE, who is STANDING for my M and taking care of my family now. I will do whatever I NEED to do to protect us and take care of us because it's WHAT I DO NOW.
Thank you for the words of what you did while this or that was happening. I have written it down and will keep it close at all times.
Thanks Mark for the reminder, I think I just need to set myself up an EMERGENCY REMINDER KIT, to remember just what I am dealing with and stop looking for "ordinary" people to understand what is involved here.
My PLAN for tomorrow is to send a letter to my cousin requesting how much money I need for the lawyer and make the appointment to start the legal separation.
Thanks Mimi, for the kind words of what I posted to that person. I am really AFRAID I will say something wrong, but I understand that URGENCY to do something now and just like the Psalm that JT sent me today, we need to wait on the Lord so we can SOAR like an EAGLE.
A Jewish Santa too? That's so great. I've seen Santas that know sign language, and Santas that take pictures with pooches-so why not?
How do I put my trust in God? Well, that's a good question because it's an on-going thing in my life. First of all, I have learned-like David in the Psalms-to be honest with God. I journal. I pour out my heart to Him.
A book that has helped me greatly to understand that it is okay to be brutally honest with God, and to let Him hear my rants, doubts and confusion is Job. I think I said this before but not sure if it was on your thread so, oh well...here it is again. Forgive me if I'm repeating myself.
About 9 years ago I started teaching Advanced Placement English, which included the study of Job (ancient literature) and Matthew (for biblical allusion in later works). I have a strong background in the bible and literature, so it was fun to teach. Plus, my year managing the swimming pool at the JCC brought me in contact with some wonderful Jewish people who shared with me the intricacies of their faith.
So, I was teaching Job and helping my students understand the ancient poetry, and looking at the universal theme of suffering. Lo and behold-that book became my lifeline. (Gee, wonder if God set that up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />) Job's struggles with faith mirrored mine. The night I was diagnosed with cancer-5 weeks after my now XH left us, I was standing outside in the summer evening and I asked God "why". I just didn't understand why it was all happening at once. Just as I noticed Orion rising it was if the words He spoke to Job spoke into my heart "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Do you loose the cords of Orion?" It was like I could, for that second, understand God's sovereignty. He glimpses eternity in a glance. He saw this coming. And because He is good, I can trust in Him. As Job said at the end "I know you can do all things. No plan of yours can be thwarted."
I have learned to pray His promises. I pray the words of Isaiah and Jeremiah. I pray the words of Job and the Psalms. Just like them, I have learned that it is because of God's character that I have hope. Here are a couple that I have written in my journal:
"I will praise you forever for what you have done, in your name alone I will hope, for your name is good. I will praise you in the presence of your saints." Ps. 52:9
"Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from Him." Ps. 62:5.
When we actively seek God out, He answers us-just like He promises in Jeremiah 33:3 "Call on me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know."
He will bring you to the promises you need.
You know, since we are practically neighbors-and we are in the same time zone, if you need to talk to someone, you can call me. Just email me (it's in my profile) and let me know it's you. I'll send you my cell #. We really should try to meet sometime. Somewhere about half-way. Maybe Alderwood so some place less crazy...Bothell??? (I've never thought of Bothell as being much of anything-especially "less crazy" but certainly less crazy than Bell. Square this time of year!)
I would love to talk to you on the phone and meet you. I am on vacation in two weeks and will have lots of time on my hands. Let's try and arrange something then.
I am going to write these down and start to look for ones that I can use or put in my journal.
You have mentioned your study of Job before, however, I love hearing about it and reading it again. Right now, repetition is VERY important to me.
When my husband first left I wrote in a journal, but then got out of the habit. A month or so back I began writing in a journal to eventually give to my husband. He is MISSING out on their daily life and I wanted to save those memories as best as I could. It actually has turned into a journal that encompasses all so I think I will begin writing in their my walk with God.
I will continue to pray for clarity of his Plan and the willingness and strength to walk through and learn the lessons he wants me to learn as well as becoming the woman HE envisions for me.
Is it ok to pray for selfish things, like bringing my husband home and healing our family to be complete and whole one day?
Mimi,
I really think you are so RIGHT about when my H comes home he will be broken and sick. My rabbi told me that I needed to get ROCK SOLID strong because when H realizes what he has done and hits rock bottom he will NEED ME and MY STRENGTH.
PLAN for Wednesday is to take the morning off from work, make fresh hot latkes and bring them down to his work with pictures of our YS, MS with me and pictures of his neices. I plan to wear RED which is my best color and in an outfit that looks SHARP and really shows off my weight loss. Hair is getting cut tomorrow and I plan to hit the tanning place before hand.
PLAN for Wednesday is to take the morning off from work, make fresh hot latkes and bring them down to his work with pictures of our YS, MS with me and pictures of his neices. I plan to wear RED which is my best color and in an outfit that looks SHARP and really shows off my weight loss. Hair is getting cut tomorrow and I plan to hit the tanning place before hand.
Hope you've battened down the hatches for our windstorms.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It's not selfish to pray for your family and your M. God is the one who brought you together (Malachi 2:13-16). He established marriage and family. So, basically you are praying for God's written will for your family.
Send me an email so we can plan to meet sometime when your vacation starts.
It is really raining hard today. The little darlings are having rainy day recess which our teachers just love.
I will email you.
I am listening to Sean Taylor's funeral. So SAD and such a LOSS.
Some of the things they are saying.
Trouble don't last long....
Clinton Portis said: There are three things you need to have in life - Peace, Faith and Heart. And whatever you do, do it with all your heart and soul.
I KNOW I have HEART, because it was broken and now it's MENDING, and I am working on strengthening my FAITH and with that will come PEACE.
And CHAMPIONS are FIGHTERS AND WARRIORS. I am fighting along with all of you here to PERSONALLY RECOVER and with G-ds help, save my M. MY NEW MOTTO: HEAD UP, CHEST OUT AND HERE I COME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My husband and I were building a business a few years back. It was the Quixtar business. I could really dissect that as partly why our marriage went south.
Another time maybe? Do the mistakes from the past matter or NOT?
I learned something about MYSELF today. I learned that I REALLY like being President of the High School PTA. That I AM a competent person who is worth of RESPECT and that I have an ENORMOUS support system that goes beyond anything I could ever had IMAGINED.
There are SO many people pulling me for. So many people who think I am SO better off WITHOUT my hubby. But you know what, even though I LOVE them all, I still STAND for my marriage and continue to move forward.
I joke with the Superintendent of our school district because he respect me. Ok, maybe tolerates me. I run an elementary school where many people rely on my multi tasking abilities that are like breathing to me. I have a JOB that I absolutely love, and I have a sense of awe and adventure about LIFE that has been missing from me since D-DAY.
NO MORE will I HANG my head is shame. I am come to realize that I shouldn't HIDE my face for my mistakes. I need to LEARN and CHANGE. I WANT TO WORK ON MYSELF, to create a NEW M and commit myself to loving my H with all my heart, not because it gives a piece of me away, but because it ENHANCES who I am, a loving, warm, caring, committed wife. I am STRONG and I am FAITHFUL to G-d.
I am one grateful person for just this moment, in that the light of G-d got a little brighter today and that his FAITH in me felt good.
I am supposed to be working super hard today and I find my mind wandering. Which isn't really a good thing because I need to pay bills.
So, I need to get this stuff off my mind and move on. I can't seem to find some prayers to focus on with G-d about what I want. I know that sounds silly, but I want to make sure I am praying for EXACTLY what I want.
Myself healed and living my life completely as a woman of G-d, my marriage restored, and my children healed.
Does anyone have any ideas? On what prayers I can say that will move me to those?
My sister told me that praying for patience would put me in situations that required patience. I want NOTHING to do with that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So if you could offer some insight that would be much apprecaited.
My sister told me that praying for patience would put me in situations that required patience. I want NOTHING to do with that :
Yep. My DH learned that one the hard way. He prayed for patience and it seemed like everybody on the road that day was driving just to get in his way. LOL Guess that's what they mean by "be careful of what you pray for."
Prayer for SG: "I may not understand why I'm at this place but I know that no matter what.. your perfect will is for the healing of my family. Start with me. I turn myself over to you completely. Thy will be done in my life, in my DH's life and in my children's lives."
If I am asking for G-ds will to be done. I guess this may seem repitious and I apolgize, but how do I know that G-ds will is for my M to be restored and my family healed?
Does G-d think that spouses are better of without each other? Does this question even make sense?
The winds have not let up, but they aren't as strong as they were ALL day yesterday. I went to the Skagit River today and it is very high-lots of logs floating down-but it isn't close to flood stage. The south end and Kitsap area seem to have it the worst. I-5 is closed at Chehalis!
Your questions make sense. The first way we know about God's will is from His character. We know that He is sovereign and just. We know that He never changes. So, we know when He says something in His Word-it is true.
So, we look to His Word.
First of all, God established marriage. In Genesis He said that "It is not good for man to be alone." so He made Eve. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." Gen. 2:24.
He also says that He is the one who brings a man and woman together in marriage. Malachi 2:14-15 (written to the ones who have committed adultery when they asked why their prayers weren't being answered even though the would "flood the Lord's alter with tears" because the Lord was not accepting their offerings)
"You ask,'Why?' It is because the Lord is acting as a the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant. Has not the Lord made them one? In flesh and spirit they are His..."
These are just a couple of places where God, through Moses and the prophets, tells us that He is the one who created marriage and is the one who brings a married couple together.
Now, the hard part of all this is, God still gives us free will. We can choose to go against His will and others may suffer from our choices. Just like the children of Israel when they came out of Egypt. They doubted God and His provision-they whined and complained and worshiped idols- and God didn't let any of that generation into the Promised Land except Joshua and Caleb, since they were the only two spies who had faith in God's provision. Those two had to wait 40 years to see God's will finally come true because of the choices of the rest of Israel.
So when you mean free will, are you referring to me standing for my M or my H walking away from my M and no matter what I do to pray for it, it still might not happen.
I know. And I guess G-d and the road to personal recovery will have me crossing that bridge if necessary.
My H says he is very close to G-d and he has a great relationship with him. There is no way I am going down that road, however, what prayers can I say for him?
Without a DOUBT, I know my H is in an addiction. He has lived in a dry drunk and now has the "source" to keep him going. There is NOTHING but G-d who can help us out. I just want to make sure that I am NOT going against G-d in a way because my relationship to G-d is at a point where it's more important to walk in his will than have my H come home.
Unless G-d is first in my life, then NOTHING changes and my marriage is over.
Is my thinking off anywhere.
How is your day going? I hadn't heard about I-5 being closed. It's hardly rainy at here at all.
I don't know the answer to that SG except to say that if you take Him at His Word, He hates divorce. Therefore it follows that His will would be for your marriage to be restored and your family healed.
Since this whole journey is really about my relationship with G-d. I guess that I need to just accept he WANTS our M and let him do his work to restoring it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He CAN DO a way better job of me.
So, PM, I will print out the prayer you gave me and start saying it.
My H says he is very close to G-d and he has a great relationship with him. There is no way I am going down that road, however, what prayers can I say for him?
Your H is lying to himself if he believes that God is pleased with him in his sin. And it is sin. I say pray that God places people in his path that will rock his belief that he is A-OK with God and shake him to his core. Perhaps a "Road to Damascus" experience? Hmmm?
First, I will absolutely pray that God starts putting people in his path. What a great idea!
My H converted to Judaism and I though knew myself was Jewish has not background on what Judaism was or what the bible had in it.
Honestly, my knowledge is so limited because it's really only been in the last 6 months that I have really even picked it up and read it.
I find myself completely frustrated with my Jewish community because they just want me to move on and make a new life, regardless of what G-d's word is.
When I read the stories, i.e. Job, Isaiah, etc, I feel like I am drowning. Any ideas how I could best grasp what I am reading. It might as well be in Hebrew to some extent.
It might as well be in Hebrew..." (JT giggling just a little when it dawns on her that, in fact, it once was in Hebrew)
You have some good questions SG. It shows how much your trust in God is growing, because you are seeking to understand more about His will and His word.
First, free will. When God made us humans in His image, God created all of us to be in a relationship with Him. But He didn't want us to be "forced" to do this. Instead, He gave us the free will to choose. It's frustrating because God allows others to choose things that are harmful and damaging towards us even when we are choosing to follow Him-and we want God to step in to their free will and change things.
So, in your situation, you both are using your free will.You are using your free will to follow God in your life and try to recover your marriage. Your WH is using his free will to make the choices he is making.
Does that make sense?
What does it mean to "fear" the Lord? That's another good question. It's a healthy respect and awe for who He is and what He has done and can do. It's like we recognize that, although we are insignificant in the whole scope of history, God still cares enough about us to "know my every thought" and "know my coming and going" (Ps 139).
One way to understand the bible better is to get a good commentary or study bible. The NIV study bible is a very easy to use one. They have them at Costco. It doesn't come in Old Testament only-but the Old Testament portion of it will have all the Pentateuch, Poetry and history books, and the major and minor prophets. Each book has an historical and cultural overview. Also, as you read through them, there are notes on the bottom that explain things-like original word meaning, historical references and even cross references to other scriptures. So, if you are reading 1 or 2 Samuel, it will have references to the Psalms David wrote when he was going through whatever historical thing you are reading.
You will be following God's will as you continue to pray for your WH. You could pray for God to send him a Nathan, just like in the story of David and Bathsheba.
Your WH may have himself convinced that he and God are fine, and God wants your WH to "be happy" (lots of WS's say this). But God never changes. God isn't like an indulgent parent saying "oh well, I didn't really mean that 7th commandment if it makes you unhappy." Nope-but God has much more creative ways to get His children's attention (think Jonah and that BIG fish).
BTW-it hasn't rained much but it sure has been windy!
It's kinda funny, but I almost understand some of the prayers in Hebrew better because I have said them for so many years.
I have two commentaries at home. One is reform and one is for conservative. I'll start looking at those and see what I come up with. Actually, Women of Reform Judaism are putting out this month a woman's commentary on the bible. So I might check that out.
Ok, who was Nathan? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I started reading Job last night, but just got so lost. I think I will try it with the commentary and see where it goes.
My WH has convinced himself of a LOT of things. It's scary what the mind can do. I would love to be able to talk to G-d and find out what's going on. BUT, not happening.
And another is it G-d or is it ODD moment, last night in my AA meeting one woman was talking about Jonah and how she was Jonah. The weird part is that I began talking about Psalm 31 and she reacted so weird. Evidently her sponsor told her she needed to start reading that one everyday and here I was talking about it. So here I am needed to look at her story to learn.
So after my AA meeting, Job and Jonah are with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The wind... ah yes. How often do you lose power? Do you have a generator?
How was work today? Any school delays?
There is so much to learn. I wonder if G-d gave me this time alone to be able to concentrate on it all and asborb it into my every being.
As for the fear of the Lord. I have the utmost respect, fear and belief in what he is capable of. In many respects, the person I was before this would have NEVER reacted this way. I would have been angry, bitter and done anything to hurt people. It can only be G-d working in me that has me falling more in love with my H, though he doesn't exist right now.
Ok, I just got off the phone with my YS and it broke my heart.
Tonight is the first night of Chanukkah and he doesn't want to celebrate by lighting candles because there is no money to buy presents and as he said "we aren't really a family".
Oh G-d, please walk me through this time and help strengthen my BELIEF in what you are working out in ME and MY FAMILY.
So I wish any of you who this applies to a very Happy Chanukkah and may the miracle of lights brings a miracle into our hearts and homes this year by restoring our families and our marriages.
It's from Acts 9 in the New Testament. Paul (who was named Saul at the time) was riding to Damascus on his way to persecute the Jews who had become Christians. On his way a bright light shone from the sky and voice from heaven said, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me and come against me and my people? (paraphrased by me)). He was blinded by the light and fell to his knees and said, "Lord what do you want me to do?" Some say he was riding a donkey. From that day he was a new man, even changing his name to Paul.
I like to say it's the day he got kicked off his [censored]. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I loved it when we had celebrations at the JCC. For Chanukkah I got to read the story of Jason and the Maccabees to the kids.
I'm glad you have some commentaries. Those are the best place to start. They are like Cliff's Notes for the bible.
Your experience at AA was what a friend of mine calls "A God thing." Both you and the other lady had a big confirmation of His care for you. It's sooo cool when that happens.
Nathan was a prophet of God during the time of David. When David committed adultery with Bathsheba (while his armies were out fighting for the kingdom) and got her pregnant and had her husband killed so he could cover it up-God sent Nathan to David and Nathan told David a story about a rich man and his poor neighbor in a certain town. The rich guy had lots of sheep and cattle and the poor man only had one sheep that he raised with his kids and it was like a daughter to him.
When the rich man had a guest over, he took the one sheep from the poor man and prepared it for his guest. David was so mad that he said "As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this deserves to die! He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity." Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man!"
And then Nathan tells David the whole "hidden" truth and the consequences that David's family would suffer for his sin.
The good part of the story is that David repented. "I have sinned against Lord." (2 Sam 12)
God knows who can be a Nathan for your WH.
I absolutely believe that God is using this time to bring you into a deeper faith and understanding of Him and your faith in Him. It's like a scene in one of the Narnia books (not the first one) where the children return to Narnia and the girls throw their arms around Aslan. One of them exclaims "Aslan, you've gotten bigger!" and he replies "no children, you've gotten older." It's like the more we learn, the bigger God becomes for us, and the more our faith grows and so on....
Job is a tough read during most of the first part because it is written in cycles-which was the way they wrote poetry stories in those days. I'd read a commentary on that part and start in the chapters where God speaks to Job (ch 38). That's where God reveals His sovereignty, His control of all of creation and eternity, and His power. It's where God gets "bigger" for me.
Did you lose power? We don't lose it in my neighborhood because it's pretty new and our power lines are buried. Someone finally realized that was probably a good idea in a valley.
I really feel the care and warmth and I am so appreciative of it.
After feeling sorry for myself or that OLD victim role (YUK), I went to a friend's got my haircut and then went over to my hubby's friends house and helped him sew one more thing. It was there that something hit me and on the way home I called YS and told him he had 5 minutes to get home and we would be lighting candles together. He KNEW not to balk with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We lit candles and said the blessings and I told them that our family may not BE what is WAS, but WE ARE A FAMILY.
And then the little miracle happened. For the FIRST time really, my H called the boys when I was at my AA meeting to wish them a Happy Chanukkah.
He talked to MS about lacrosse and was using the information that I GAVE him. He is listening and reading every word I am writing him.
My kids WOULD NEVER admit it, but I KNOW it touched them or they wouldn't have told me. I let the boys tell me what he said, and didn't ask any questions and walked in my room and thanked G-d. I am PRAISING G-d for this miracle.
My Plan is to take him fresh made latkes tomorrow at work, leave him a card and pictures of YS, Neices and MS and myself.
I bought him a book on the civil war because he LOVES history and I got him a box of ALMOND ROCA, which was his mom's favorite candy. It's not to much HE likes it as I KNOW that it was his mom's favorite.
I am wearing my red chinese shirt that really shows off my weight loss and will really fix myself up with makeup. Though HE doesn't like me in make up. I DO.
G-d graced me with a special gift tonight, and I am very GRATEFUL.
Thank you SO MUCH. I just got done doing my prayers. I said the one that PM told me to say and I prayed to G-d to direct me to Psalm 119. I read it as surrending to G-d and his thy will be done.
I think he was BLOWN AWAY at my weight lost. He asked me why I was dressed so fancy. I glossed over that.
It was still the WH for sure. He thanked me, bragged about himself making latkes last night, and lighting candles. He told me he had called all 3 kids, got a cold reception from one of them. I thanked him very much and told him how much I appreciated him doing that.
He was involved in work, so I left. Then went downstairs and spoke to a co-worker I know. Found out WH boss was there and went back upstairs. We talked a while more about incidental stuff. I tried to get him to laugh, but he was WH. I wanted MORE time with him.
I asked him how work was going. He kept looking at me I think amazed at how I looked. I look REALLY good today, red is such a good color on me.
We talked a few minutes about the kids, our house, and then he showed me his business card. And said I'm somebody now, I quickly said "YOU ALWAYS WERE SOMEBODY".
I found out he had been sick with 102 temperature over the weekend. I asked him if he got my message, but I don't think he heard me, and I don't think he did.
So, I am thinking that maybe I should email him and find out if he got my message. Because if not, then SHE got it and do I want to do anything with that?
Then I went downstairs and introduced myself to HIS boss and had a wonderful conversation with him. I love meeting and talking to new people.
It's defintely the WH and as soon as I left, he went back to work. He didn't eat the latkes or open the package.
BUT - our family picture is still on his desk. Me when I was fat. AND now, he has a NEW picture of me.
And I got him to GIVE me a Chanukkah hug. Complete with feeling how much weight I have LOST and wearing the perfume that he likes or at least knows it's me.
He didn't comment about my new glasses. I think he was in SHOCK. Or really who knows.
Sounds like you did great B.. I'm really pulling for you and praying for you.
Happy Channukkah!!!
Keep with the constant goodness, and I think you'll do ok. God is our strength in this time, and He's obviously leading you down a good path. Feel proud of yourself, bask in it for a little while, and then get back to work on you.
You're doing great.. remember to give thanks for all the positives.
Oh trust me, I was praising G-d as soon as I walked out of there.
I really don't think it made an impact to the WH. HOWEVER, the physical changes are just to overwhelming not to see. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When I was driving there was a sign that said Praise the Glory of G-d or something like that. And that's just what I was doing.
I LOVE this man so much. But this battle with SATAN is SO FAR from even being dented.
I'm not sure of the distinction between constant goodness and overload. MEDC would probably tell you at the point where your goodness loses respect for you in the eyes of your wayward.
I don't know the answer to that.. I'm simply letting God direct me.. I've -not- taken some opportunities.. and I've made opportunities in places I maybe shouldn't have.
We'll see how it turns out. Life's the journey, not the destination... If God can bring you to it, He can bring you through it. (Yup.. stolen from one of the emails I've gotten recently)
My WH has NO RESPECT for me what so ever. I am learning how to gain respect by respecting myself.
Somehow I need to get the mind set that if he still chooses to live with crack addict, then HE is the LOSER. Not me and certainly not our children. BECAUSE I am carrying on the traditions, standing up for my M and creating the life that G-d always wanted me to have and being the woman he always envisioned.
I will say, and please beat this out of me. I feel like I am competing with the OW. Sad, but true.
My MIND is playing tricks with me and NOW my emotions.
I keep going over the time I had with WH. And my sadness is taking hold b/c, well you know. It was WH that I saw and not my H.
Please help me reinforce in my mind. I am the WIFE, the one with the children, the one with the memories and respect. HOLD my CHIN UP, and know that even if WH doesn't notice how good I LOOK, almost everyone I have come into contact with today has complimented me.
This wasn't about him, but being the best I can be and giving him a taste of what our NEW life could be like.
So, in times like this, what is a good prayer to say to help me get through it. B/C I just found myself saying to G-d, if MY HUSBAND is really HAPPY being gone, then tell me and help me move on.
Is that STUPID to think? Please help me get centered again.
GREAT!! He noticed. Men are very visual and this will be retained in his MEMORY even if and when he does not want to remember.
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It was still the WH for sure.
OF COURSE!! This is to be ACCEPTED and EXPECTED during PLAN A.
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thanked him very much and told him how much I appreciated him doing that.
GREAT!! YOU ARE DOING WONDERFUL!! All that counts is YOU!!
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He kept looking at me I think amazed at how I looked. I look REALLY good today, red is such a good color on me.
WOW!! You go, GIRL!! Wonderful! Wonderful! I'm being sincere. You are WOWing me on how wonderful you did. Just think of the COURAGE that this took. I don't think you would have been able to do this a few weeks ago.
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And said I'm somebody now, I quickly said "YOU ALWAYS WERE SOMEBODY".
PERFECT!!
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Then I went downstairs and introduced myself to HIS boss and had a wonderful conversation with him. I love meeting and talking to new people.
OK! NOW, I'm really holding my mouth open..YOU ARE A STAR!!
Do you know how come Bugsy's WH is called Dracula? The BETTER YOU ARE, THE MORE EFFECT that you have, the WORSE they are...
SG, I had absolutely no idea of the effect that my PLAN A had on my H until he came home. HE WILL NOT LET YOU KNOW. You have to know yourself and BELIEVE ME, you were almost PERFECT.
I'm mostly happy FOR YOU. You held your head up, met his needs for PHYSICAL ATTRACTION, ADMIRATION, CONVERSATION..gave a slice of history, staked your claim on him at the office..WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL..YOU ARE DEVELOPING CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF, LOVING YOURSELF and I'm sure that it showed. You are clearly communicating that YOU ARE A STAR and regardless of how wayward that you want to be, my dear HUSBAND, the "CREAM IS RISING TO THE TOP"....
This really helps to make me FEEL better. The only one thing I wished I had thought of sooner, was telling his boss to ask for some of the latkes that I brought. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
One opportunity wasted.
So what could be next in MY PLAN?
I actually always wondered why Bugsy's WH was called that. Thanks for telling me.
I should also fill in that HIS Boss knows that we are separated. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He should think WH is a fool.
What do you think about HUBBY calling the kids last night? My DD told me that it was weird. She is the one child who isn't really angry, but TRULY sees how different he is.
Also, should I investigate to see if Hubby got my phone message asking him to come by and see me and tellig him something about the football player that I might?
My MIND is playing tricks with me and NOW my emotions.
I know you're Jewish but there's a scripture in the New Testament that says we're to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. In other words, YOU put up a big red stop sign when you start thinking like that. That's stinkin thinkin! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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I keep going over the time I had with WH. And my sadness is taking hold b/c, well you know. It was WH that I saw and not my H.
Exactly. But H may have been in there somewhere trying to peek out. You're the LIGHTHOUSE that will shine on and show him how to escape.
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Please help me reinforce in my mind. I am the WIFE, the one with the children, the one with the memories and respect. HOLD my CHIN UP, and know that even if WH doesn't notice how good I LOOK, almost everyone I have come into contact with today has complimented me.
That's right. Your place is beside your husband. He's not around right now so you're standing in for your family as a woman of destiny powered by prayer.
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This wasn't about him, but being the best I can be and giving him a taste of what our NEW life could be like.
Exactly. When you see WH remember... NO EXPECTATIONS.
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So, in times like this, what is a good prayer to say to help me get through it. B/C I just found myself saying to G-d, if MY HUSBAND is really HAPPY being gone, then tell me and help me move on.
"Father thank you for the courage you provided today and for helping me plant the seeds. I KNOW You are in control. YOU are my strength. YOU are my shield. YOU are my fortress. With YOU, all things are possible and even though my eyes cannot see anything right now, my faith remains in YOU."
Psalm 5:11 & 12 But let all who take refuge in you be glad; let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may rejoice in you. For surely, O Lord, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield.
Joshua 1:9 Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.
I will put these down in my prayer book that I am creating. I am creating quite a nice bedtime ritual between G-d and me.
I actually look forward to my ALONE TIME WITH HIM.
Do you all know how special you are and how you help me stay with G-d. He is definetly working his miracles in me.
Last night at my AA meeting I realized that my children are coming to EXPECT me to make them breakfast and dinner. That was something I DID NOT do on a regular basis and I THINK was important to my HUBBY.
And I am DOING it because I WANT to do it for my children.
I am Jewish and actually very proud to be Jewish. But about a month or so ago, my rabbi and I had a LONG talk about what was going on.
He agreed that I was caught up in a cosmic battle for my H spirit and soul.
I told him that I felt way more support from the Christian community and he told me that it really didn't matter where the support came from. There is ONE G-d and his will is what is most important. And where I got support was what's important not what religion they were.
Please know that I am humbled enough to accept ALL help from people who walk with G-d. That's all that's important. I am EVEN WILLING to read excerpts from the New Testament if it will HELP G-d restoring my marriage. So, please suggest away. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I told him that I felt way more support from the Christian community and he told me that it really didn't matter where the support came from. There is ONE G-d and his will is what is most important. And where I got support was what's important not what religion they were.
As you may have noticed, I am not a 'religion' debater, but am a person of great faith. I don't want to start any 'religion' discussion, but I have to say that I think you have a GREAT rabbi! To me, he gave a perfect answer and I admire your ability to see the value in all of the support, no matter the source.
Hey Smartie, I am missing you SO much. I hope you are having a nice week and talk to you Saturday.
Bugsy,
I am very humbled by your commitment to your recovery. Please pass along any words of faith, prayers, etc that you think would be helpful to me. I truly believe that G-d has faith in me and my abilities to walk through this terribly time with grace and dignity, learning ALL the lessons I need to and is counting on me to be there when my H comes home, as Mimi says, broken and sick.
In fact, my rabbi told me this summer when I spoke to him first about this, he said BS, you need to get rock solid strong. I guarentee you WS will crash and burn and he is going to NEED your strength. I truly believe ALL of you on here are my angels that are helping G-d change and work his miracles in me. And for THAT I am so grateful and humbled.
And you are RIGHT, my Rabbi is awesome. He retired a few years back and we MISS him horribly. But he came back for a Bar Mitzvah.
I hope to hear from you more often when you have time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
SG, I'm glad I can help. My heart goes out to you because I can SO relate to everything that you express about your doubts and fears and hopes. I remember feeling the same things. I didn't have anyone to help me and I was just lost, lost, lost. I will never sit back when I see someone in the same awful pain I experienced if I can help in any way at all.
I respect the Jewish faith very much. I have a love for the Jewish people because they are after all-- God's chosen people. I LOVE their dance, devotion and worship.
Your Rabbi is obviously a wise man. Don't let go of that.
Thank you. Are you going to be pulling for my Skins tomorrow night. They sure could use a lift in their life. It's been a rough ten days for them.
Please know, you are helping. This understanding and reading the bible. There is so much and so many places to go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I read your byline everytime and chuckle to myself. The one thing I had to change through this whole thing is EVERYTHING.
I have to ask, do you see hope in my sitch and is there anything you thing you think I could be doing wrong or do more right?
Are you going to be pulling for my Skins tomorrow night.
Okay, now you're really pushing the bounds of friendship. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (Just kidding).
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They sure could use a lift in their life. It's been a rough ten days for them.
Yeah, I know. I feel really bad for them. So so sad and what a waste.
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I have to ask, do you see hope in my sitch and is there anything you thing you think I could be doing wrong or do more right?
Absolutely I see hope but I'm not really the person to ask about what to be doing because I did everything the PM way (since I didn't know about MB). Stick with Mimi on this Plan A stuff. She rocks.
I COMPLETELY understand this and WITH ALL MY HEART, desire to be this woman.
Do you think G-d will give me the chance to be this woman with my husband? Or do I become this woman regardless of him?
This one - 15 She gets up while it is still dark; she provides food for her family and portions for her servant girls. For over three weeks, I actually have gotten up every morning to make my YS breakfast in the dark. It's one of the most joys of my day.
Ok, I am breaking down crying. This is so much of what MY LIFE was like. What happened then? NEVER MIND, what happened was G-d wasn't FIRST. Plain and simple.
So MY PLAN is to BECOME this WOMAN for G-d.
Mimi, can you please help me?
OK, I will work on the stopping comparisons. This will be HARD for me because my self esteem is so LOW. But getting higher each day.
Greetings from the north!!!(Well, north of Maple Valley at least)
I have been reading off and on all day but didn't have any time to post until now. I think you worked your plan wonderfully today. And I agree that your rabbi is a wise man.
I wanted to add a verse for you-for your prayer book and for you to recall when you start to make those comparisons. This is how much God cares for you. That makes you priceless!
How precious to me are your thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them! Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand. When I awake, I am still with you.: Ps 139:17-18
I have a question. Haven't heard from WH, not a surprise at all.
Where do I plan from here?
I should have my money in a week or so for the lawyer.
I have a few bills that I need to get to him. If he didnt' get my phone message then he wouldn't have known about them. I can email him and ask him if he got my message. If he said not, no problem. If he said yes, then I know he is avoiding me and I can just remind him I have bills for him?
Why, yes I think I can do that. I was going to make cookies next week.
I should just leave them there without seeing him maybe?
One bill is his car registration that's due this Saturday, but it really doesn't expire until the end of the month. Since we are "supposedly" splitting his paycheck, I was going to give him half of the money for the registration. What do you think about that?
So, just to check in, I am still working a very HARD Plan A, because Plan B is just around the corner? What kind of timing are you thinking about? Or what do I need to accomplish before Plan B?
I should also mention my anniversary is January 1st.
This is really conjecture, but this thought just popped into my head which sometimes I believe is G-ds way with me.
That I am walking through all these emotions and feelings b/c the day that my H wakes up and realizes what has happened, he is GOING TO NEED me, and by walking through these now, I will have the experience how to support him to G-d and walk through it with him.
I have wondered at times if the things I have experienced in the past couple of years, my wife nearly leaving me for OM, my bacterial infection that they couldn't identify, two surgeries and extended recovery from all of the above wasn't so that I could learn how to heal and move forward.
While I do not believe God causes these things to happen to us, I do believe that if we can learn the hard lessons from them and be open to His leading, that He will bring others along that are in the same or similar circumstances in their lives that can benefit from what we have already been through.
To me, this is absolutely awesome, that the God of the universe might be able to use me to reach others with His words of healing. So many things came together in just the right order in order for me to learn the lessons that I learned that it cannot have been mere coincidence.
My wife beginning an affair, me finding it out so quickly, my pastor who I helped hire for the church, the fact that he had met Dr Harley years ago when he lived in Minnesota,the fact that he was familiar with Dr Harley's methods from using them to save his own marriage years before, his explaining to me the love bank concept in our first meeting, me finding my way here, my contracting a rare bacterial infection, meeting a doctor who only worked at the medical group for a short time (less than 2 months at the time I first saw him) the fact that he knew new surgical techniques that few others in the area had ever heard of, my wife taking time every day to change my dressings and care for me, my boss finally understanding that I could not continue to be a one-man show...all of these and so many more got me to where I am today.
God promises us comfort in time of trouble. But the word comfort means "with strength" and that means that God promises us that He will see us through our troubles with His strength rather than us needing to rely on just our own to get by. And some of His strength He has imparted to others so that it may be shared with those who follow later.
To me that is awesome!
And in your situation, no matter what happens with your H, you will be better able to deal with troubles and difficulties and can be there for someone else in their time of need. What you are learning doesn't come from any book or class, it only comes from perseverance in the face of trouble...
I agree, when you look at it this way, it is AWESOME.
Many years ago, in a personal growth class that both my husband and I took as a way to strengthen our M, I worked through some major issues where I came to realize how much I loved my H. And that I was learning to tear my walls down. He knew that. It was also there that the facilitator told me that I had Shaman's heart. A healing heart. At the time, I kinda blew it off. NOW, I am not so blowing it off.
I am grateful, very grateful to G-d for walking me through this and that truly I can say I LOVE MY HUSBAND unconditionally. I truly hope that G-d will give me another chance with my H, but until then, I am working on being the very best woman I can be for G-d.
Perserverance is one thing I am learning and doing.
It helps to somehow suffer threw the pain, knowing that G-d is using me for a bigger purpose, whatever that may be.
I'm back from class (last one for the quarter) and was just catching up on a few threads. Your attitude is inspiring. It's always so amazing how God never wastes an experience, but can turn it into something that helps us grow in faith if we are willing.
Last winter I was reading a book about prayer that used a great example. The writer was describing trees in his yard during the winter while he was writing about those "winter" times we all have in life. (I felt like I was in one at the time). He said that during the cold winter months, a tree will draw its sap deep into its core. By doing this, the tree becomes stronger. The winter also kills any bugs or fungus on the tree that might weaken or destroy it.
That's what these times do for us in God's hands. We end up stronger in the core of who we are, and stronger for what He has planned for us.
... the day that my H wakes up and realizes what has happened, he is GOING TO NEED me, and by walking through these now, I will have the experience how to support him to G-d and walk through it with him.
Is this STUPID?
SG,
Not stupid at all. I am experiencing this right now. Although I have my moments of emotional weakness, my FWH is facing such devastating grief and remorse that at times I have feared for his health over this past month.
It is odd that I am so often the one comforting him considering what I have been through. But you are right, when/if they see, truly see, what they have done, they NEED us to get them through it. I have held my H for hours while he cried and shook in my arms...several times over this past month. I am thankful that God has brought me to a place that I can be here for my FWH. Over the last months, if you would have told me I would be comforting him, I would have said that will never happen.
So you walk this journey to be a stronger you...for yourself...but God will use that strength however he sees fit.
I can't tell you how much hope your sitch gives me and now what you have said.
I admit, things look ABSOLUTELY BLEAK, but I have FAITH in G-d, and know he is building character and strength in me. I can ONLY HOPE it's to be used for my H.
SO on to PERSONAL RECOVERY. At my MC and IC sessions yesterday the topic of forgiveness came up. I am in a place today, where FORGIVENESS isn't something I can ALLOW myself. This is HUGE, especially for when G-d brings my H home. I TRULY BELIEVE, I have forgiven my H, but I am so shameful and angry at myself for all the MISTAKES I made.
My IC feels like this is an acceptance and control issues. So, I need to work on this and bring forgiveness to myself for all the wreckage I have caused in M. I guess I have this deep seeded belief that if I had been a better wife then he wouldn't have done what he did and my kids wouldn't be suffering.
So, this is stupid thinking and am looking for a prayers or guidance on how recover from this.
How would you forgive someone who has wronged you?
In order to be able to forgive yourself, you must make the changes and be satisfied with them in -YOUR LIFE-.. to reconcile with yourself the things you seek to forgive yourself for.
True forgiveness comes with repentance.. you -can- repent to yourself... it's the hardest kind of repentance though.. because YOU already know how sincere you are.
We called a process called Teshuvah. It means, you fast for Yom Kippur, ask G-d to forgive you, and when faced with the same situation, you don't DO IT.
I actually have had many opportunities where that has come up and didn't DO IT AGAIN.
MAYBE, my unwillingness to forgive myself is a way of still trying to control the situation and BARGAIN with G-d. If that's the case, then I am NOT IN FAITH with him am I.
Ok.. so you're still in the process of working on it. Are you sincere? I think that's the question.. who are you doing it for? Are you doing it for your WH, or yourself?
Do you think that God won't forgive you? Have you asked? I think we both know better..
If you have yet to forgive yourself, then perhaps there is more that -you- feel needs changing.
You -do- need to separate out though that it is -your- forgiveness you seek.. not someone elses right now.. if you think forgiveness will only come if you can test out the new you on your husband.. you're in for a long rocky road.. because you're doing it for the wrong reasons..
But this shift has changed me. The WORK AND RECOVERY I am doing TODAY is for me. And only me.
You see, the reality is, one day I want to have a relationship with someone. I HOPE that relationship is with my H, but I have to TRUST G-d. If I DON'T MAKE THESE CHANGES IN ME FOR ME, I will never HEAL COMPLETELY AND WHOLY.
The BIGGEST CHANGE - RIGHT NOW IS TO COMPLETELY TRUST G-D for the Plan he has designed for me.
Yes SG.. the ability to completely let go and trust God is -huge-..
I'm dealing with it myself right now in my sitch. I have an email all typed out and ready to go to WW which -might- knock her around a bit with all the problems she's having with her dad and sister as a result of all of this..
OR
I can trust that God is moving through these circumstances to affect my wife.. and I should stay out of it.
Guess what I -should- do?
Not that hard when you're offering advice to others.. tough advice to take for yourself because you feel as if you should be -doing- something.
What I -can- do is stick to my Plan A, be -wonderful- to myself.. do things that make -me- feel good. Respect myself.. work on myself.. forgive myself.. and get on with my life even without WW.. she took herself out of the center of it, and now I get to enjoy taking up the 'whole bed' so to speak for a while..
I really started to notice a difference when I started to be 'ok' with myself in this process. You will too.. and WH likely will as well if he hasn't already.. but you aren't doing this for -him-.. you're doing this for you.
If he catches on and wants to be a part of that, great for him.. but if not being 'ok' with you is critical for your recovery and for you to be 'ok' with someone else.. even your WH right now.
For me.. I'm at a point where I think I'm almost ready for WW if she comes back.. it'll still be hard work, but I think I've got the foundation laid within myself at this point... WW is NOT ready yet.. God's got her in the pressure cooker.. it's going to probably be a while. She's close to rock bottom.. but she's got her lifeline and it's not breaking.. .yet... and it may not.. she might never hit bottom like she needs to.. that depends on what happens in the future on her end... nothing I can control or worry about. I've got to be OK for me just in case it is -just- me in my future.. you'll get there too.
What THOUGHTS are running through your mind when you are feeling that way? That I don't know how to live the rest of my life without him. Or I will never have someone to love in my life and I will be all alone.
I have all this love to give someone and it just sits inside of me useless.
SG. It's okay to fear... for a moment. It's a natural human emotion. It's NOT okay to hang onto that fear... especially if you're working out your relationship with God. Do you trust Him or not? As a prophetic act... buy you or find yourself a small little box. Now go outside and find some smooth stones. Keep a few of them with you all the time. Now. When your fear rises up, think about what IT IS that you fear. Write it on a stone. Then pray:
God, fear does not come from you. I'm releasing this fear and putting it away. I trust you. I believe you. I'm choosing to replace my fear with joy. You are my Father and in You will I trust. Your mercy endures forever.
Then put the stone in the box. Close the lid. When that same fear rises up again, you can remember that you put it away and are trusting God to take care of it.
I have to tell you, here I am sitting at my desk, tears running down my face, my body is jumpy.
All the while, a kid went unconscious on the playground, it's early release which speeds up our day, the principal is having me do all this work and I am DEALING with my TRUST and FAITH in G-d and letting go of FEAR.
God does have faith in your strength.. because He -knows- what you can handle.
Keep in the back of your mind that every time we suffer, we have been given an opportunity to learn and grow in ourselves and with God.
It's ok to cry.. it's ok to be jittery from time to time.. feel it, acknowledge it for what it is.. and then let go of it..
God will comfort you if you ask Him to.. sometimes just praying is enough to give you the moments peace you need to get it back together and go on with your day.
I get anxious too.. but anxiety comes with expectations.. and that too is something you'll need to let go of.. God will work in His own time, according to His plan.. not ours. We cannot know His design.. but we have to trust that even if His will is not our own.. he has a better plan than we do..
Say the serenity prayer..
Find a Psalm that touches you and brings you comfort and pray it as a reminder when you're feeling anxious.
I think it's GuidedCertainty who has this in her sig: Faith isn't believing God can. It's knowing that He WILL.
Do you -know- that God is working his will in your life? If not.. keep praying.. keep asking for whatever it is you need to believe.. and then once you're done praying.. listen.. read the Word.. listen to the radio.. look around you and try to be open and receptive to what God is telling you.
Sorry to hear about the kid on the playground.. hope he's going to be ok.
I just got done praying my heart out to G-d. And feel WAY better.
I know G-d is working his will out. It's accepting what his will is - NOT MATTER WHAT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There is a saying that my old sponsor told me. The universe is unfolding exactly as it should, in spite of whether we like it or not.
G-d will have his WILL. And I do BELIEVE he wants me to be happy, joyous and free. I just have to TRUST that he KNOWS what is best FOR ME.
I think the Psalm from your website is a really fitting one for me today as well. I just have WAIT for the Lord and learn the lessons.
Don't worry about the outcome, because he is working on me and I am NOT ready. Someone just came to see me from AA and repeated what she said last night.
If I am worrying or concentrating on someone else's life, whose working on me. It's NOT MY JOB, to worry about my WH. G-d is the ONLY one who can CHANGE him.
For me the definition of faith is trusting God and taking Him at His word when I am not seeing Him at work and don't understand what He is doing.
God promises that He has a plan for us and that it is good.
God promises us that He is with us always. Psalm 139 says "I can never get away from my God."
God says that He is in control, especially when we let Him do so. He is in charge even when we are at our lowest. Psalm 102 tells us that God is still on His throne.
He tells us in Joshua that we should not be discouraged because He will be with us, even as He was with Moses.
In the NT Paul says that God works all things together for the good of those that love Him.
And we can learn from Job the lesson of what really trusting God means. For Job lost everything he valued, his crops, his wealth, his children and even his health, but his attitude was one of "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him."
God let's us have troubles so that we can learn to trust Him even more. If He simply gave us everything we wanted and never allowed us to suffer, we would be like the rich man who trusted in his own wealth... Or the king that trusted in his treaty with others to come to his aide... Or Saul when he took upon himself the task of doing what the prophet was supposed to do in making the sacrifices.
It is when all is well that we lose sight of God and feel like we are doing well. By letting us see how helpless we are, He reminds us of how much we need Him. Even when we think we are in control, we really aren't. Paul tells us that "by Him all things are held together."
The prophet wrote that God has showed us what is good. What does the Lord require of us? To live justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with our God. For when we think we are acting justly, He shows us we are in error because His ways are not ours. And when we realize how lowly were are before Him, He grants us our mercy and that humbles us even further.
A wise man once said I have learned only two things for certain. There is a God...I am not Him.
So we should feel honored and blessed when God allows us to have troubles because it brings us closer to Him. It makes us realize how much we need Him and how helpless we really are without Him. Not that He causes us the trouble, but that He cares enough about us to let us call out to Him and draw nearer to Him and by letting us have the troubles, brings us to a better understanding of how much He loves us.
Through this ordeal, I have come to UNDERSTAND, I LOST the one thing I valued the most which was my HUSBAND, and I didn't even realize it until this HAPPENED.
BUT the bigger REALITY, is I didn't value him BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP with G-d who could help me see how MUCH I valued my husband. NO, wait, I DIDN'T VALUE MYSELF, and that's what I NEED to LEARN to do. Isn't it.
Now, I need to TRUST G-d it will be ok. And he is working in me as I breathe.
So this is where I HAVE to admit to myself that I am a WORHTWHILE PERSON, who G-d loves and wants what's best for me.
That it's ok to DESERVE happiness and I DESERVE a H in my life who respect and treats me well. I am a WORTHWHILE person who deserves all the GOOD that G-d can give. And in order to BELIEVE that I DESERVE, I have to FORGIVE and TRUST G-d.
I agree with Mimi. I do have email contact with many people here at MB. I made a commitment right up front that any woman who emailed me for off line help would be required to either supply her husband's email address or other email of someone else, preferably a male, on this board as an accountability control for both of us. All of my emails must go to her AND someone else that can keep us both accountable and hers as well. SG, you already knew this about me, didn't you?
Especially when we begin to commiserate with each other over our marital troubles, we make ourselves way too vulnerable. We're giving without getting anything in return all the time and when ANYONE starts meeting ANY of our ENs, the slope is so slippery that it is impossible to stop the slide once it begins. This is how lots of affairs begin, by two people sharing the problems they were having with their spouses.
This is why the ability to PM other users was shut down BTW. It has already happened here on MB. There are other cases in the works right now in all likelihood. As Elmer might say, "Be vewy, vewy careful."
I completely understand. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I do NOT want to comprimise in anyway the GROWTH and PERSONAL RECOVERY G-d is working out in me.
Besides I totally can see what you mean and I will only ANSWER for myself, DO NOT want to be a part of anyone EVER getting hurt or misconstruing something.
I just got word, the money for the attorney has been transferred into my account and funds will be available on Monday.
So now, I have to make the appointment.
Help me what to ask for? Do I go for more than what he is paying if I can get it, or just half his check with the understanding that this includes spousal maintenance?
If you want some idea of what the courts might decide, you can check out this link at Washington State Courts. The forms are right there for you to download.
Also your lawyer will know better what you should ask for. That's what you are paying him/her for. What I remember is that even though Washington is a community property state, that doesn't mean necessarily everything is 50/50. There are other factors like how long you've been married, if you supported him while he was going to school or stayed home to raise the kids (thus lowering your ability to earn an equal wage right now) which set up issues of support.
So, don't worry about having to know what to say when you walk into the lawyer's office.
And, if you are only filing a legal separation for right now, the legal payments are still binding. A LSA lasts for 90 days I think, and you can renew it indefinitely in our state.
Finally, I had my twin brother go with me to the lawyer the first time, in case I didn't remember everything that was said (which is always a possibility when it's something stressful that you are talking about) so he could review it with me later.
Oh, plus, you will get a set amount of child support for your son until he is 18 or graduates from high school (whichever happens last) and possibly support through his college years if he is in college. Our state is very big on protecting the kids.
And the amount is set in the worksheet. It is based on the standard of living that your child is used to having, not on your WH's current situation.
It's an eye opener for some of them. Plus, the support enforcement office is a real pit-bull in the state. If he is late paying you at all, you go to them, and the state takes it from his paycheck.
This is absolutely true!!! I have been letting myself be lackadaisical about this and have found a friend on the board. It is nice to have someone to talk to, but I have noticed that it is a dangerous situation. I am going to have to start limiting our talks so that I don't allow myself to lose love for my wife, because she won't talk to me. Be very careful, I just started noticing this recently and I think that it isn't too late.
Ryan.
Quote
SG and James,
I agree with Mimi. I do have email contact with many people here at MB. I made a commitment right up front that any woman who emailed me for off line help would be required to either supply her husband's email address or other email of someone else, preferably a male, on this board as an accountability control for both of us. All of my emails must go to her AND someone else that can keep us both accountable and hers as well. SG, you already knew this about me, didn't you?
Especially when we begin to commiserate with each other over our marital troubles, we make ourselves way too vulnerable. We're giving without getting anything in return all the time and when ANYONE starts meeting ANY of our ENs, the slope is so slippery that it is impossible to stop the slide once it begins. This is how lots of affairs begin, by two people sharing the problems they were having with their spouses.
This is why the ability to PM other users was shut down BTW. It has already happened here on MB. There are other cases in the works right now in all likelihood. As Elmer might say, "Be vewy, vewy careful."
Great news about your skins <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What you are feeling is normal-in the sense that what you are going through is not normal, so it is stressful for your body and mind-and stress like this is draining.
Our bodies actually produce a chemical when we are under stress that floods our brains and blocks our ability to do things like learn and remember, to keep focused and organized, and it also drains our energy (and that "fight" you had).
One of the best ways to try to combat it is to exercise-just walking for a short amount of time can reduce your stress levels.
I will be praying for you to have some peace tonight as you enjoy your sabbath and another night of Chanukah.
How would YOU go about INVITING him AND making it clear that he is NOT to bring her?
"We want YOU there with US..I'm counting on you not to do anything to RUIN this tournament for our son." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I as HIS WIFE, would just call to remind him that MS has a tournament and I wanted to see if he needed the schedule. I wouldn't have the guts to say anything about ruin anything.
If you as the MOTHER of your SON think that he might bring her, then you do need to protect your youngun..
I was trying to think of something for you to say to make sure that does not happen. If it was my son, and my sons indeed used to play in sports tournaments, bringing the OW would definitely ruin it...
Just invite him and don't mention her if you think he will not bring her..
I've got to figure out a male counterpart to this Goddess club.. I mean.. I'm lookin -dang- good these days..lost another 5 pounds in the last 2 weeks and am back down to the weight I met my wife at.. -and- was coincidentally the best shape of my life.. nice to know I can still get there at 31..
Maybe I should get the plan on the Biggest Loser.. be a coach.. my plan is easy.. it takes a while but it -works-.. fall in love.. then get your heart trampled on.. 30 pounds the easy way!
Ahh.. ok.. no..
But anyhow.. down 40 pounds total.. and fitting into my -old- 'gig' clothes and looking and smelling better than I ever have in my life.
Well, I called and left a message yesterday. He didn't call me back, BUT, I found out last night that my MS CALLED his dad and invited him to come to his game. He WENT and stopped by to see MS after the game.
I found out that WH needed to get the rest of his stuff out of the garage today so he couldn't make the first game. I CALLED him and left a message about how well the team did and told him when the NEXT game was and that I hope he could come.
He NEVER called me back, BUT, at the end of the game, I called HIM and he was there. I asked him if he was ALONE and invited him to come over. I told him that I had BOUGHT him a t-shirt and to come get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
WH wanted to see MS, so he did. We all THREE walked out to the car, I INVITED him to come to dinner, but he declined. Then we got to the car, I gave him the shirt which was personalized info about our son and then invited him to come to dinner one more time, MY TREAT. He said no.
I am ALMOST POSITIVE, he is afraid to be around me OR he can't be without HER. I am SHOCKED he came there without her.
We talked about the camera battery not holding it's weight and he said, WE would have to invest into a new one probably. I don't know if he MEANT me and him or Him and her? I didn't ask. I think I will CALL him about the battery and find out what he wants me to LOOK for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He said LOVE YOU to MS and guess what, MS responded back, LOVE YOU TOO. I wanted to jump for joy, BUT more importantly I PRAISED AND THANKED G-D. For this tiny miracle.
He explained to MS that he might not be able to make it to his game tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I LOVE seeing him and want MORE.
I bragged about having 3 layers of clothing on, two pairs of pants and three shirts. The one top shirt was tight on me at one time and I wanted him to know that I had two more underneath and THIS shirt was still huge.
Plus, I went to the tanning booth yesterday and worked on my tan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
On the only down note: I REALLY get the IMPRESSION, this time and when I saw HIM Wednesday, that he is VERY uncomfortable around me. I am like a bother, or he can't wait to get away from him, like I am poison. What am I doing wrong?
On the only down note: I REALLY get the IMPRESSION, this time and when I saw HIM Wednesday, that he is VERY uncomfortable around me. I am like a bother, or he can't wait to get away from him, like I am poison. What am I doing wrong?
Remember, he's like DRACULA...the better you are doing, the more anxious he will seem...
He's ATTRACTED by YOU and trying to fight it..DUMB ALIEN... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
NEXT STEP: THANK HIM FOR COMING!! "I SO APPRECIATED YOU COMING TO THE GAME TODAY"...
This time remember: SHORT and SWEET..no extra stuff added in about bills or anything.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Actually he has favorite cookies that his mom baked, but I don't have the same recipe. They are molasses cookies. I could bake those after I got home from the tournament tomorrow and bring them down to his work on Monday?
There is also a cake that I haven't made for many years that is his mom's recipe.
Sadly I didn't bake very often. I was a GOOD one, but just always found other things to do. NEVER AGAIN.
Sad to say, but GOOD in terms of your PLAN A, HE DIDN'T HAVE TO COME AT ALL. I'm recalling plenty of times when my WH no-showed. Knowing what I know now, SG, this took extra effort on his part. He had to come up with a plan to break away from her and he didn't have to. We don't want to give him a medal for this or anything. He should be there with his family in the first place. But compared to how your situation was when I first got to know you, this is PROGRESS.
I look at it in terms of ENs and you met many today. Physical attraction, family commitment,conversation...expressing your appreciation for him coming will add in ADMIRATION. You are demonstrating your capacity to meet his needs. The OW can't compare/doesn't compare in any of these areas.
I would leave him a voicemail and thank him for coming, telling how GREAT it was to see him and for you all to be together..
Then, next week thank him again in the card, making his favorite cookies. Take them by his office if you can so that he can SEE you.
What was something that YOU baked that he liked. MANY YEARS ago is OK. You are making an important point with that. What is a special memory that you want to bring to his mind?
I have to appreciate the BABY steps, and still remember this is all ABOUT me being the best I CAN BE for me.
I get nervous when I am around him. How silly.
OK, will leave a call tomorrow, AFTER the game. If he shows up that will be GREAT. I get the family commitment, but the physical attraction and conversation - how do you KNOW that she can't compare?
Will do about the card and will make the cookies.
I don't get the plan to break from her. He could have just told her?
HE MISSES his kids, this is more and more apparent. How can I work through the fear that him getting closer to the kids will actually push him farther away from me because he will get his KIDS fix and it won't include me.
You're nervous because HE is not YOUR HUSBAND. I was a bit nervous around my H for a WHOLE YEAR of RECOVERY..until THE FOG seemed FULLY GONE...
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I get the family commitment, but the physical attraction and conversation - how do you KNOW that she can't compare?
I shouldn't have said that about HER. SHE doesn't MATTER. YOU just do what YOU have to do. Who knows or cares about her?
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HE MISSES his kids, this is more and more apparent. How can I work through the fear that him getting closer to the kids will actually push him farther away from me because he will get his KIDS fix and it won't include me.
We've got to work on this thinking. What HE wants is YOU to put HIM first in your life OVER THE KIDS. Your job is to communicate to him that YOU WANT HIM. So when you SAY thank you and write your note, make it from A WIFE to A HUSBAND, not from THE MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN to THEIR FATHER. Make it about HIM and YOU. "I was so happy to see you at the tournament, etc." You are going to be in charge of this, to direct this the way that you want this to go. He is not in charge. THIS IS YOUR PLAN that YOU ARE WORKING and you are doing MAGNIFICENTLY!!
I think I DEFINTELY NEED more training in this AREA so it becomes second nature.
I TOTALLY get how ABSOLUTELY VITALLY IMPORTANT this is. NOTHING will matter if I CAN'T accomplish THIS.
So, please be patient and keep walking me through where I am missing a BEAT. USE any METHOD you need too. I have NO PRIDE and JUST a WILLINGNESS to learn.
And TRULY, I am DOING this because I WANT TO. This is about ME wanting to win him back. Does that make sense?
Oh Mimi, Thank you so much. This would be a good time to REALLY pray hard to G-d for all he has given ME TODAY, wouldn't it.
BTW - Don't GODDESS's get to WEAR PINK, BRIGHT PINK?
I have another question. Since it seems that I am making a tad bit of progress, do I file the legal separation or keep on with Plan A for a while longer? I actually am having fun doing this.
I do have to be careful not to push him into her arms. I can't overload him, correct? Or I don't think that would be a good idea? What about you?
BTW - Don't GODDESS's get to WEAR PINK, BRIGHT PINK?
Wear what LOOKS GOOD on YOU and helps YOU to feel GOOD..but at this time...also consider HOW your H likes for you to dress...
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Since it seems that I am making a tad bit of progress, do I file the legal separation or keep on with Plan A for a while longer? I actually am having fun doing this.
That's a hard question. Is he giving you all that YOU NEED right now?
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I do have to be careful not to push him into her arms.
Sad to say, he's already in her arms..your goal is to LURE HIM OUT OF THERE...
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I can't overload him, correct?
He's doing his best to keep you away, to shut you out. It will be almost impossible to OVERLOAD him. You want to GIVE as much as you can into ANY OPENING of THE DOOR that may occur. Read up on the EMOTIONAL NEEDS. You want to meet any EMOTIONAL NEEDS that he will allow you to meet and/or you want to EVIDENCE your CAPACITY to meet his NEEDS.
I have NO clue what he likes me to where since I have BEEN FAT for so many years.
What I did get, was he noticed HOW FANCY I looked on Wednesday.
NOT to DWELL on it, but I REALLY WAS a FAILURE OF A WIFE AT MEETING HIS EMOTIONAL NEEDS. I thought SF would be the key, and I WAS SO WILLING TO DO THAT. But I LOST HIM.
Funny, but that's what he SAID keeps him with her. The intimacy they share.
Funny, but that's what he SAID keeps him with her. The intimacy they share.
It's BULL what he has to say about their SICK RELATIONSHIP.
Let's focus on the PRESENT. Your story is the same as mine, SG. No different. It's like that of many of us here. I made HORRIBLE MISTAKES AS A WIFE . I told my H early on during PLAN A to give me another chance and thankfully he has done that.
We can't do anything about THE PAST.
Since coming to MBers, WE now know the ingredients for a GREAT MARRIAGE.
NOW we can put what we have learned INTO PRACTICE.
Right now, you are doing this for YOUR MARRIAGE on your own. You are TAKING THE LEAD.
YOU, YOU, YOU..the WOMAN with THE PLAN..
Their relationship IS SICK and DYSFUNCTIONAL..
STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO HER and THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR MARRIAGE.
When my H was a wayward and "in love" with the HO, he said all kinds of WONDERFUL things about HER. That's part of the TYPICAL WS SCRIPT...
I am taking the lead and with G-d's will, your help and a whole LOT OF LOVE for my H, I am going to go get him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I KNOW I am on the cusp of TRULY understanding, but there is something blocking me from totally getting it.
Any idea what that is or how I could get rid of it?
BUT, I need to be HONEST. And sad to say, the bad and good were probably even. I am NOT KIDDING, when I SAY WE STRUGGLED.
And it was MY FAULT because I didn't have G-d in my life. I can not mimimize how LONG we have lived in a dry drunk, almost 14 or so years. From the time we moved to WA we started pulling away.
And that sadest part was BECAUSE I didn't realize how much I LOVED HIM. He shut me out and I learned to just live another way.
BUT, G-d blesses M and not D and I have FAITH and COMPLETE TRUST, that since G-d is my first priority in life, then I have a SHOT AT MAKING A NEW MARRIAGE WORK.
OK, so guess who showed up with YOU KNOW WHAT? I almost died, truly.
There he was at the end zone, hugging and kissing her. I walked over to him after the game and confronted him. Very graciously, very matter of fact, but inside I wanted to rip his heart out.
He said SHE IS apart of his life now, but I said NOT OURS and NOT OUR CHILDRENS LIVES. I AM PROTECING THEM.
He knew my MS had seen him because of the reaction he got from him. I blew it when I asked him if he hated me that much. It was just the WH, he didn't answer, but looked at me emptily.
I HUGGED him like you said Mimi, and then told him I loved him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Not because I am a doormat, but b/c something inside told me to. He was going to leave and miss his son's next game because she is APART OF HIS LIFE.
I asked my son if he cared that he was there with HER. He said he didn't care, but I KNOW he wanted his dad there. So I called him up and told him to come. He said he would stay hidden.
I am not exaggerating when I say I wanted TO END IT RIGHT THEN. The pain and hearing him say she is apart of his life now, cut me to the core. At that point I gave UP ALL hope, but for the Grace of G-d my DD was home and I called her for JT's number.
Thank you JT for talking to me. You walked me through this and somehow I came back to hope while sitting at the table watching them walk down the ramp.
After they walked by, they stood at the tourney list and I walked right up to them and said HI, I'm Barbara, and shook OW's hand. WITH GLOVES ON OF COURSE.
She said, I'm OW and in the most RIGHTFUL WIFE TONE, I said I KNOW.
I turned to my H and in my most loving sweet voice said, I am really glad you are here, and walked away.
I almost dropped dead of shock at how ugly she is and white trailor trash, hard looking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I heard about it, BUT it was worse than I expected.
SO HELP, NOW WHAT? Should I just go on acting the sweet loving wife in Plan A and bring him those cookies? Because my being sweet and somewhat friends is just so opposite of how I would have acted in the past.
Oddly enough, the first game he couldn't keep his hands off of her, but the second game, they barely touched. He kept laughing loud, but I ignored him.
At the end I walked down the ramp first and completely ignored her, and then walked on the field to my son. My WH didn't walk on the field, but walked away.
OK, so tell me what I did WRONG AND what I SHOULD have done.
There he was at the end zone, hugging and kissing her. I walked over to him after the game and confronted him. Very graciously, very matter of fact, but inside I wanted to rip his heart out.
I commend you. There's no way that I would have been able to make it until the end of the game. It it UTTERLY DISGUSTING what your WH did...Unbelievably cruel and harsh...gives me the absolute creeps...
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He said SHE IS apart of his life now, but I said NOT OURS and NOT OUR CHILDRENS LIVES. I AM PROTECING THEM.
GOOD FOR YOU..that you were able to pull this off...they probably would have had to call the police if my WH had done that... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
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I blew it when I asked him if he hated me that much. It was just the WH, he didn't answer, but looked at me emptily.
You didn't BLOW ANYTHING at all. He BLEW IT as far as I'm concerned..
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I HUGGED him like you said Mimi, and then told him I loved him. Not because I am a doormat, but b/c something inside told me to.
I understand. I'm just astonished that you were able to do this.
I did it absolutely lovingingly too. And truth be told. It felt to be able to act like this. I was truly a woman of G-d with the love in my heart, and protection for my kids.
I was churning inside and just wanted to hurt him so bad.
I pulled it off - with grace, dignity and class. AND I SAW HER UP CLOSE.
UGH!!!
Thanks Believer, I am NOT SO SURE This one will end. Please help me know why? Please.
But I do know that I was a different person when I talked to him today, loving and giving and serene. BUT firm and protecing my children. Something he knew I had a hard time doing.
It will end because 97% of affairs end. Now I'm sure he and the nutty OW think it won't, but it will. And when it does, he will most likely put her out like the trash.
I can't IMAGINE showing up at a married man's childrens game!!!! YIKES!!!!!!!! Sounds like she is a couple of bricks short.
She's a crack addict with hep c, whose been divorced twice and is on state disability. She also had her first child when she was 15. HMmm.... Not the makings for the most sophisticated person is it.
She is 46 and looks like she is 56.
I was stunned. Truly stunned.
And I think I am UGLY.
I CAN'T imagine it either, but I can't imagine BREAKING up a family.
Today was the FIRST day that I realized how much a Proverbs 31 woman I was. It was through JT, that G-d worked for me to somehow walk over there and be gracious and yet not a doormat.
FEELING ugly is my problem, which I am trying to work on. I am just not THERE yet.
Ok, Believer,
I can't really hold you to it, but I am. I pray for and look forward to the day that my HUBBY says that. Not because I will want to gloat, BUT because I had FAITH in G-d to work his miracle in MY HUBBY and bring him home.
I USED to be someone that held resentments constantly. I think today WAS a HUGE lesson that the OLD PERSON is gone. I live in G-d path and have compassion for those who are sick.
I LOVE MY HUBBY. I UNDERSTAND, he doesn't exist and there is a monster in his place. But TODAY, G-d gave me the strength to somehow let go of all my guilt, which really HAS been destroying me lately. I couldn't let it go, and yet today when I SAW him, and I experienced the ABSOLUTELY INSANITY OF HIM STANDING IN FRONT OF ME, SAYING SHE IS A PART OF MY LIFE - I realized that I need to pray harder for G-d to destroy this monster.
He is destructive, hurtful, selfish, ALIEN, and NOT a ROLE MODEL I want my children to have any contact with.
I beg of you all to help pray for my husband's spirit and soul.
I have to tell you a quick story of when my ex was having his affair. My church friends prayed, our friends prayed, and different ministries we belonged to prayed. Nothing happened.
One day my ex stood up in church and asked for prayers for our marriage. That same NIGHT, I caught him in bed with the OW. He was renting a room in a home, and I'd driven by to get the address to forward his mail. His truck was there, and OW's car.
So I knocked on the door, his roommate (owner of the home) answered, and let me in. I explained that I was Mr. Believers wife and wanted to speak to him. I went upstairs and knocked on the door. My ex and OW were in the middle of having sex.
Anyway, I was cool and calm (could hardly wait to get back home and post on MB). I told his roommate thankyou, and I was sorry to bother him.
Well, his roommate was a devout Jew, and the next day, asked my husband to leave. He told him that he didn't want an adulteror living in his home. And THAT was a big wakeup call for my ex.
Next they moved in together, but they were always splitting up. It happened over and over. I believe that a Godly man standing up to the evil put them on the downslide.
I can only pray for that g-dly man to be put in WH's path and helped along.
This is just so sad.
JT, really helped me confirm or reaffirm how much he is in an addiction. I went to my AA meeting tonight to remember what addicts and alcoholics do. It's been so long for my sobriety, I only KNOW the CRAZINESS, not the complete addiction of destroying your life for the next fix.
I am very scared for HIM, but there IS NOTHING I can do BUT become the best I can be for G-d and wait for his blessings.
Let's pray for you to turn everything over to G-d. And know that He will take care of you and your family.
When a person drifts away from G-d, they don't listen to their conscience. They harden their heart. They don't seem to know right from wrong.
But that state doesn't last. In the still, small hours of the night, they will suffer for their choices. It doesn't happen right away, but it always happens.
I will pray that G-d comes along side your husband and calls him back. Also that their is a hedge of protection around your husband until he returns to you.
I have to walk in FAITH and just keep learning the lessons G-d needs me to learn and become who he envisions for me.
Today I believe was a HUGE test from G-d. The OLD me would have killed him. The new me, just LOVES the HUSBAND deep down inside and prays for him and looks for guidance from you all.
The people in my "physical" life, just don't understand. They don't get this addictive idea and certainly think I should just walk away.
But I DON'T believe that is what G-d wants. JT mentioned that she thought today was my WH pushing my buttons as a test. What do you think?
Yep, DONE. But I DO believe in the MB concepts. I think that we COULD get back together and fall in love again. I just have no interest, and it seems like too much work. And I completely lost respect for him.
We raised 8 kids together and they are all on their own. If I had children at home, I might have tried.
I waited way too long to go into Plan B, and lost my love for my husband.
My life is good without him. Hopefully that won't happen to you.
WOW! You did that Goddess Style & with Class. Major Goddess Points on that!
I know it had to be one of the hardest things in your life, but you did it well. I know *I* would feel shaky inside, but also have such a renewed feeling of Strength!
I'm proud of the way you handled that SG.. sometimes things like that are the arrows that pierce the wall and the fog..
Over time I'm sure he'll replay that scene in his mind and remember your strength and conviction.
Believer is completely right.. we have to turn this over to God completely.
I think the other lesson Believer isn't coming directly out and saying though.. is that the more we obsess, and ride the rollercoaster in our Plan A efforts.. the longer we persist.. the closer we are to being Done when those efforts don't 'pay off'... it's the expectation that kills.
Give up expectation.. do Plan A for you.. then it -can- go longer and better without completely draining your love for WH.. then when you're in Plan B FOR YOU.. you will be protecting the love God continues to give you for him.
Coming from you that is QUITE the compliement. It's so weird, that WASN'T the HARDEST thing I have EVER DONE. It was the most natural thing because of how much I LOVE my HUSBAND and am standing for my M. I walked away KNOWING that I am PROTECTING my CHILDREN, MY HUSBAND AND MY FAMILY.
I didn't feel like a doormat, I felt in G-d's will and G-d's spirit and absolutely calm and strong. I think seeing HOW UGLY and old looking she is HELPED ALOT.
This was G-d working in MY LIFE, and one of his PROUDEST moments. The HARDEST part is going to be TRULY letting Go and being in PLAN B. And ACCEPTING that G-d has a PLAN and it MAY NOT include my HUSBAND. That is WAY harder for me today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
James,
I KNOW what you mean. In some way I think what happened yesterday was AN ABSOLUTE LIBERATION from him. It was G-d putting strength in me to LET GO of the absolute GUILT and SHAME I feel for the wreckage I caused my M.
I guess in one way, by my "THINKING" is an expectation. HE IS GOING TO DO WHAT THE MONSTER WANTS TO DO, regardless of who gets hurt. As for Plan A, you are right, I will continue on MY PLAN because I WANT to.
BUT I am definetly going to talk to the lawyer this week and get the papers filled out and possibly file them. My sense is that my PLAN A is going to be shorter than I would like b/c of the LS, but I NEED to let G-d direct me on this. I don't want to risk my chances of getting the most amount of money before too much time has gone on. He explained something to that effect to me.
JT (thanks JT), helped me alot walk through that yesterday and last night. I have a few set of prayers to keep me going.
As for HOW he reacts, I honestly don't care TODAY, what I DID was about ME. I am a woman of G-d who deeply loves her husband and is PROUD of that love. I staked my position, and though I didn't come right out and say I was his wife, in many ways that was more gracious and strong.
He is SICK, I have FORGOTTEN, the mind set of the alcoholic and getting his fix at any cost. Clearly, what he did was OVER the top and DISGUSTING. But HIS WIFE loving told him how glad she was he was there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think we need to come up with a NAME FOR THIS MONSTER, any ideas?
I was THINKING, after my morning prayers and talk with G-d.
Of COURSE he would bring her. HE HAS TO. He can't trust her. She is an ADDICT who told him that he can't have a relationship with HIS KIDS unless she was there.
If he came without her, he would have to WORRY that she took off using like she does every 30 days.
Mimi,
I PLAN to bring him cookies this week, but call him today and tell him how nice it was to see him yesterday and wish him an awesome day.
I am so VERY GRATEFUL to you. G-d is working through you and there is a strength that became a part of me yesterday. JT walked me through the pain, but G-d gave me strength to honor him as the woman he envisions for me.
I really shouldn't be happy that she is so UGLY. And for her, I"m not. And I pray for her as well. But oh man, I am glad my friend got to see her as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So my next step for Plan A, call him today and tell him happy I was to see him at the games over the weekend. And to tell him to have a great day and Happy Chanukkah.
Well.. if we could -see- everything that is going on.. we wouldn't have to TRUST and have FAITH.. now would we?
I BELIEVE God is working on the other side of the mountain.
I BELIEVE that God, like the good shepherd He is, is seeking His lost sheep.
I BELIEVE that God has a plan, and there is a REASON we have been called by HIM to stand for OUR marriages.
I BELIEVE that God is perfecting us, and our spouses over time to be what we need to be for EACHOTHER. Our waywards are not home yet because God is not FINISHED working on them.. and us.
I BELIEVE that if it is not God's WILL for my marriage to survive, that He will show me the BETTER way that He has planned for me.
I BELIEVE that part of -my- lesson is to show His love to others, and learn forgiveness for those that have wronged me.
I BELIEVE God is telling me to WAIT, and TRUST in HIM.. and He is consistent with HIS message to me.. I should BELIEVE, and cast off doubt and hopelessness... and TRUST in HIM.
So.. I shall.. and as I believe, so it shall be done through Him who answers all prayer... in His timing.
You're in my prayers SG.. you're doing wonderfully as well. Keep your eyes on God.. He will not steer you into the wrong direction.
TRUST in the LORD, and lean not unto THINE OWN understanding.
The thing is to be able to be SINCERE and HONEST in what you say to him.
I guess if it were me, I would be able to say it was "GREAT" to "SEE" him but I would have to leave "at the games" out. I know it's a play on words but it would be THE TRUTH for me....
You made me have a MEMORY of my grandmother whom I ADORED...She alway used to say: "PRETTY IS..AS PRETTY DOES"..explains the OW's LOOKS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And truly being sincere and honest is the easiest thing to do because it's how I feel. If you say to just comment on seeing him, then that's what I will do. This is the AREA you know BEST. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
What are you up to today?
I am feeling powerful today. I haven't felt that for a VERY long time. Head's up and Chin's Out. I am even going to do some clothes shopping after work tonight.
I called him. I told how nice it was to see him over the weekend. Silence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Then I asked him for some pointers on my training for Ultimate Frisbee that I could do in the gym. He talked to me a great deal about what to do and then made suggestions for outside work at the school. I thanked him for some great suggestions.
We talked about the weather and he bragged about snow, I told him we had a little. I don't even bite anymore when he says "we and us". It makes me sick though.
He asked me if I had taken certain pictures at the game yesterday. I told him the battery had gone dead, he said that he should probably get the camera back so he can look into the batter. I did't say a word, but I'll take care of that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He asked me about the boys and I told him about how dinner and last night went with "our children". I had him laughing through most of the conversation.
We talked about the car registration and he new that I was offering to pay for half of it. I told him to use the check I had left, he declined and asked why. Well, because the car is half MINE and he paid for the other registrations so it's only fair I pay for my portion. He said, not a problem he took care of it. I thanked him.
I wished him a happy Hanukkah and he wished me back one.
I think I did well in that conversation.
Mimi,
The comment he said to me last week about "being somebody now" is still bothering me. I would like to send him a card that somehow addresses that, very short but powerful. What do you think?
I can wait as long as G-d needs me to. I am his humble servant who loves him so much and wants to be his shining star for the stand and eventual restoration of my M.
Hard things to do is what is building my character and strength to keep on loving my H in the face of this horrid time.
I truly thank you Mimi, for your kind words. You can't understand how much your encouraging words help me and push me forward.
More telephone conversations it is. I will leave him alone for tomorrow and then call on Wednesday. He just chirped away when asked to help. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sounds like you're doing wonderfully SG.. keep up the good work and remember to be thankful for what God gives you.
I'm so happy that things seem to be moving in a positive direction for you, just keep chipping away little by little. As many people around here say.. it's a marathon, not a sprint.
I think I need help with people telling me how things are moving in a positive direction. I don't see that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I am eternally grateful to G-d for the place he has PUT ME in, but what's happening on the other side, NO CLUE whatsoever.
My recover is coming along, that's for SURE. I am WORKING my PLAN A, but I am getting READY to put Plan B into action and somehow need to start preparing myself for it I guess.
Mimi, What should I be doing emotionally and action wise for Plan B to happen?
How long do you think I should keep working Plan A.
When should I begin to develop my letter for Plan B and have it ready to go?
Yup... measure your success by the goals you have for yourself.
You cannot measure what your H does to be a requirement for your success. You have NO CONTROL over what he does or does not do.. it's not a valid indicator of whether or not -you- are succeeding.
Keep the chin up and the chest out like Mimi says.. you -are- doing wonderfully.
How do you suppose we came to this place where we are standing for our M no matter what.
How did I seek G-d versus becoming more bitter in life. I am so grateful to G-d that I looked to him to walk through this and didn't go to the black side or turn dark.
I have to have FAITH that one day, my life will be full of joy and blessings and my FAMILY, will be complete because G-d is at the center of it.
How much I have come to love and rely on G-d to just get me through the little things, like waking up in the morning and getting out of bed. My sleeping, I even seem to be sleeping with more peace and serenity and just walking in FAITH that my H will be HOME one day and our marriage restored.
I think that measuring my success based on what H/WH is going to take some work.
I have FAITH, but it hasn't become a PART of me that G-ds plans for me may NOT include my H.
I think I need to work on praying for acceptance for whatever and just completely grasp, G-d is working to turn this into good, regardless of the outcome.
I just need to wait on him and let him do his work, like Believer says.
This is something that I can assure you doesn't come easily. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And to be honest, I get tired of the situation.
Some might say we have been 'called' by God to stand for our marriages... that may be so.
Some would say that we are clinging to faith in hopes that we can petition God to fight for what we cannot... that might be true too.
The real question IMHO isn't -why- we turned to God.. the circumstances in our lives brought us to this point in our lives, and we -chose- to turn to God.
The same thing is happening to our WS's... Did you read the mass readings and Psalms today?.. God is seeking His lost sheep.. but the choice is -theirs- to listen to God.
So far our WS's have chosen to turn away from God.. but God does not give up.. God never gives up on us.
Someday.. I have faith that my WW will see, and obey what God is trying to tell her.. I pray your WH will as well. But God only knows what it will take.. what He must show them to help them home.. but He is persistent in his Love as we are in our prayers.. His timing will be perfect.. it always is.
I haven't read them. I will do that in a little while.
Did you read Charlynne Cares email yesterday about the "wise men". PEOPLE don't know G-d wants us to do, especially if it's something that happens inside of us and in our hearts.
Do I know if this is the right path, NO. Do I believe that G-d wants me to stand for my M, YES. Because G-d blesses marriages and hates divorce.
G-d is all powerful and I choose to walk in FAITH with him that if I turn to him during this time, then my chances of SURVIVAL and being blessed beyond my wildest dreams is the only WAY. I guess I have to just come to understand that what that BLESSING IS.... has yet to be determined. However, by walking in his WORD, I can trust what he says. And he SAYS he wants FAMILIES complete and whole.
When I walked in what I THOUGHT, my life was unmanageable, destructive and unhappy. I WILL NOT go back to that place. I love G-d TOO MUCH to disappoint him and not be a humble servant to him.
I believe in the VALUE of ACCEPTANCE so I want to add in these points.
Your WH is OUT OF YOUR CONTROL so your PRAYER is for him to turn to GOD. He has the FREE WILL to do so but your WH's SALVATION is HIS CHOICE.
The other thing is that we have to TRUST IN GOD'S PLAN. HIS PLAN may not include RECOVERY of your marriage. Your marriage may need to end for some GREATER GOOD in the LORD'S PLAN for this world.
But by YOU turning to HIM, you can trust that GOD will take care of YOU.
In taking care of YOU, it's up to YOU to decide about PLAN B. You have to BE READY for PLAN B because have to BE PREPARED NOT TO SEE OR TALK TO YOUR H. Remember, you were having WITHDRAWAL yesterday. The WITHDRAWAL is very painful and you will LONG for CONTACT with him.
But into PLAN B you must go, if you have to witness much more of him kissing and hugging her. This will cause your LOVE BANK for HIM to diminish and this is what you will be safeguarding by going into PLAN B.
Can you help me walk through this a bit, please. In my head I can understand what you are saying.
But then when it hits my heart I immediately go back to the shame and guilt for all the mistakes I made and that my children are the ones to suffer for my bad choices and sick behavior. THAT is the PART that is destroying me inside.
I know you came to that point of trusting G-ds plan and that you would be taken care of, but how?
I can keep Plan A up for a much longer time, however with a legal separation, don't I need to go into Plan B immediately?
This is really where the rubber meets the road isn't it.
Walk in faith no matter the outcome, and trust in G-d that one day it WILL BE OK with or without my H. I can tell you I just got on my knees to ask G-d to help me come to terms with what you just wrote.
I am NOT there yet, but a week ago, there was NO way I could have even accepted that or even asked G-d to help me accept that. Please pray for me.
I'm trying so hard to accept him outcome and understand that my pain and loss may be for the bigger good. My I am human and still selfish and I want my kids to have an intact family with both of their parents. I'm REALLY trying to be selfless and serve G-d. I really am.
The KEY is to LEARN to TRAIN your MIND to CONTROL your FEELINGS.
Remember how I told you how I would shake my head? I would shake that STINKIN' THINKIN' out of my head.
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when it hits my heart I immediately go back to the shame and guilt for all the mistakes I made and that my children are the ones to suffer for my bad choices and sick behavior. THAT is the PART that is destroying me inside.
Only take responsibility for what YOU did. Make your personal amends to your children. That's what I did and keep doing and my H takes responsibility for what HE did. HE chose to have an AFFAIR. Regardless of ANYTHING that YOU did, he did not have to choose that option. You are not responsible for what he CHOSE to do and what HE is continuing to do. YOU ARE ONLY IN CONTROL OF YOURSELF!!
Ok, I will keep working on this. And yes, I do remember you saying that. I think I will print it up and sit it on my desk.
I think it would help to come up with a name for the monster so I can remember who he has turned into.
Any ideas?
I also have to understand that what we are saying isn't about what the OUTCOME is, we are just preparing me for whichever the outcome is? I can still fight for my M, right? And there is STILL hope, right?
In many ways I am tired of fighting and hurting. Maybe what you have brought up Mimi is G-ds way of just telling me that to get relief is to open myself truly up and TRUST him no matter.
He KNOWS I am so VERY SORRY for my wreckage. But he KNOWS that I too suffered in this marriage and I was HURT too and it's time to not hurt anymore?
I don't know. I am just walking through what's happening and putting it to paper so I can process it more. It helps to write it down and get rid of it.
Of being alone and not being in a relationship and not having to share intimacy in my life.
Something that has ALWAYS been the most important piece to me.
Guess what, In 6 months since he has been gone, WH has not called me at work on his own once. Not once!!!
Here I am coming to terms with whatever the outcome is to grasp that marriage recovery may not be in G-ds plan for me...and WH just called asking me what Sean Taylor's number was. He said he was working on something, but he wouldn't tell me and only wanted to talk for a second and got off really quick. What the heck?
Quote - And hey.. if marital recovery is not in the cards.. I'm sure there are plenty of men out there who would -love- to be with a WARRIOR GODDESS!!!>
And you know what the sad part of that comment I have no FAITH that there is another man out there that would ever want me.
Before I met my H, there was NO ONE that ever showed any interest in me. And my H really said it good when he said he has NO DESIRE for me. Because that's what I lived with for most of my married life.
Hmmm. I need to work through this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
But this WW crap isn't something he HAS DONE at all. He has completely ignored me. Is working a good Plan A have anything to do with this?
I just got a call from principal at the high school, my son's school. Evidently he skipped out on a substitute last week and today when the teacher confronted him, he went off on her.
He is so ANGRY inside and since he is 18 I can't make him do anything. This is my most sensitive child, who is also the one who confronted his dad and also saw WH and OW at his game. He is hurting and wants to hurt my WH, but he WON'T, he just shoves it down and pushes it away. That's what my WH did and over the years I gave up trying.
It's true that at 18, you can't "make" your son go to counseling, but the school can.
In our state-students who are 18 aren't allowed to sign themselves out of school or bring in their own absence notes UNLESS the parents sign a form "emancipating" the student. This means that the parents won't get any more information on their student. No calls for absences, no report cards. If the student is going to be responsible for his/her notes-then they are responsible for the whole thing.
It has to do with the school being responsible for the student in place of the parent during school hours. So, if your son is told by the principal that he has to attend a group/or counseling for kids with anger issues, to avoid in house suspension or detention-that could work in your favor.
I'd call the counselor at his school who works with him and let them know what's going on. First of all, the counselor is bound by confidentiality rules. Second, they can keep an eye on his progress. This kind of stress can derail a kid. I have plenty in my program who have been. My YS struggled last year (first year of high school) because of the dual stresses going on.
As Roseann Rosanadanna said "It's always something."
LOL...if anyone know it, you do, this is what makes us who we are...it's difficult to go through when you're in it...
but we are better people b/c of it...
just a reminder, I know that you know this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
That's what makes a good mom, or dad for that matter, it's a life long job of wanting to protect our fledgings from harms way...Wouldn't trade it for the world huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for stopping by. I really appreciate you keeping an eye on me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We meet in 3 weeks, are you ready to go 14 - 2?
Thanks Strivn,
I ALWAYS need reminders. Especially when I had a day like yesterday and the valley was so low and dark.
No, I wouldn't trade it, but put it on a shelf would be nice. Or having the 2nd parent around is what G-d intended to give us a break and bounce off.
Yesterday was tough. Real tough. Between WH and kids I felt beaten. REALLY BEATEN and was giving up. I got on my knees a few times yesterday for G-d. I cried deep sobs like I haven't for a while, because I'm tired. I just so tired of it all. Emotionally, spiritually and had nothing to give to anyone. I just wanted G-d to take me away and put me out of my misery. That's a very scary place to be especially when you are driving on the freeway and the concrete center becomes your focal point and desire to hit it.
I thought of you Mimi and how you have been so patient and kind. And I called JT and she graciously walked me through stuff and stayed with me on the drive so that I wouldn't do anything I would regret. Thank you JT.
I had to work my 2nd job and that filled up some time. I had sent an email to my boys telling them I was DONE with this rut we were falling into and that we are going to be living a different way or they would have consequences.
G-d is good, I saw an attitude change in my youngest son not just on the phone, but when I got home. He asked me if he could do something for me and I used MB principles that I am learning here on them. Appreciation, sitting down and watching tv with him, etc.
And then I went to bed and started to read this book that I was given on Monday. It's called, G-d is more than enough, by Tony Evans. It is a book about Psalm 23 - The Lord is My Shepherd. It has changed me somehow.
My Plan A yesterday included calling my H and asking him how to reach our boys since they are so much like them. He gave me some information that I can use when he comes home on how to deal with him. He also told me how he shut down on me for all those years, but was listening. I had no idea. Can't change the past, but I can certainly use it to talk to H and boys now with this info.
Then I called him later on to thank him very much for all the help he gave me and how much I appreciated it. I believe it was when he was HOME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> because he had to get off the phone really quick. But he wished me a good last night of Hanukkah. So, out of desparation somehow G-d gave me the strength to still work Plan A and continue to show H what life would be like.
Through it all, I wasn't hysterical, but strong and looking to problem solve what is happening between our kids. I didn't blame him, but included him in on what's happening. So I think I did good, but am looking for any suggestions that I might have missed.
Mimi, what should I do next in Plan A?
I hope all of you are having a good day and know how special you are to those that you help and just talk to. It makes us feel so not alone and empty. You are being a part of G-d in our lives and I am forever grateful.
Dream on sweetie! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
That was pretty awesome that you connected with H when it came to kid issues. You're right, he did give you a glimpse of how to deal with him when he comes home.
SG-- ending your own life is paying the ultimate price. That was the enemy whispering in your ear. God dwells within you so you can be sure that the enemy hates you. He comes to kill, steal, and destroy. If that happens again recognize the source. It does Not come from your Heavenly Father. It's at times like those when you can speak against evil and WIN. Remember that.
Besides that... if you did something foolish like that, I'd have to come up there and hurt you!
Dream on? Don't you remember many years ago when Dallas went 2 - 14 and guess who the 2 were against. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You and I are going to have some fun.
As for Plan A'ing H - I am not going to let ANY opportunity to be wasted. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is too important.
Part of the PERSONAL RECOVERY that all of you are getting me to understand and apply daily is also having to come to terms with WHO I WAS IN THE MARRIAGE. Not to blame myself, but to learn about what happened, so I can change, grow and become the woman G-d envisions.
I clearly can see how I ran on self-will that ultimately landed my personal destruction. But for the grace of G-d, if I had continued on my path as I was living, I would NOT have come to this sight nor walked back into the rooms of AA. I believe though that G-d knows what he HAS in me and KNEW exactly what I would do. But I wasn't totally there yet.
It's easy to talk FAITH, and it's easy to begin to grasp what it's about. But to WALK FAITH totally and completely is something that requires what I believe as Psalm 23. G-d clearly has put circumstances in my life to get me so low that it robs me of my independence of him so that I become COMPLETELY dependent on him. What has been happening the last few days is G-ds way of forcing complete abandonment to him. And once I hit that point, which I believe was last night driving up to my 2nd job, then he can begin to restore my soul.
There is a Hebrew prayer - The soul you have given me is a pure one. For so LONG, I couldn't believe that b/c of my past and the bad things that I was doing in my dry drunk. I don't have to live like that anymore and I can lay down and let G-d have my life for his service.
In my M or actually for my entire life, I have never KNOWN who I was, what is a sense of well-being, a sense of purpose, sense of direction, or sense of hope - and G-d decided he had enough and wanted my soul restored because the soul he has given me is a pure one.
I have NO IDEA what this means, and I don't NEED to, I just need to lie down and let G-d have me TOTALLY.
I clearly still believe my H is coming home one day, because G-d wants that. But today I am able to understand that just like me, he has free will to choose and he is in a PLACE of SICKNESS and DARKNESS. G-d knows the end, I don't, but each and everyday I grasp a little more than I CAN HAVE AN AMAZING LIFE b/c G-ds has HUGE PLANS FOR ME.
PM, one of the things I did last night was scream out loud for Satan to get away from me and my H. What effect it had, only G-d knows. Mimi gave me some great suggestions on how to stop when the downward spiral happens. Suggestions that I am trying to implement. As AA says, progress, not perfection.
And OH so, I am a work in PROGRESS DESIGNED BY G-D.
How about we maybe meet in Dallas or DC for a game someday? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
How about we maybe meet in Dallas or DC for a game someday? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
That would be awesome. We could see Dallas play in the Super Bowl this year! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LOL
Seriously, that would be cool to meet up IRL and watch a game.
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I clearly still believe my H is coming home one day, because G-d wants that. But today I am able to understand that just like me, he has free will to choose and he is in a PLACE of SICKNESS and DARKNESS. G-d knows the end, I don't, but each and everyday I grasp a little more than I CAN HAVE AN AMAZING LIFE b/c G-ds has HUGE PLANS FOR ME.
God's purpose is "His Kingdom Come". His greatest desire is that we worship him. I do that through my music-- writing, singing and playing. I can't explain how close I feel to Him when I'm doing that. It's even more powerful and meaningful because even though I've experienced a ton of heartache and pain in my life, I still believe. People have cried when I play, but I know it isn't me, it's Him, coming through and annointing the music.
All this stuff you're going through? The purpose will be revealed to you one day. And you'll say, "Ah-ha... so that's why I went through what I did." Continue to seek God and He will be faithful. Ask Him to show you how you can know Him even better.
Before I go reading backwards to think on the 'name' question, I had to stop and post about this,,,
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My Plan A yesterday included calling my H and asking him how to reach our boys since they are so much like them. He gave me some information that I can use when he comes home on how to deal with him. He also told me how he shut down on me for all those years, but was listening. I had no idea. Can't change the past, but I can certainly use it to talk to H and boys now with this info.
Then I called him later on to thank him very much for all the help he gave me and how much I appreciated it. I believe it was when he was HOME. because he had to get off the phone really quick. But he wished me a good last night of Hanukkah. So, out of desparation somehow G-d gave me the strength to still work Plan A and continue to show H what life would be like.
OUTSTANDING! You, my dear, have earned MAJOR Plan A Goddess points on this! That was a double pointer!
One, you included him in finding solutions,,,,asking for his HELP. Valuing his Opinion & insights!
THANKING him,,,, ADMIRING him!! Most Excellent work.
THEN,,,,, on top of it all you realize that these are things that you can use with HIM!!
Any more detail you can provide on his comment about how he'd shut down on you for all of those years but was listening? That seems like a BIG admission,,,, What did he say exactly?? How did you respond???
That is a HUGE compliment and I appreciate it. Before I get to the WH answer, did I read somewhere on here that once you start earning Goddess points you can wear pink? Or am I imagining that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As for WH, it's weird, b/c I asked him (is that what you did to me? He didn't respond and I asked again), but as I was asking the same question he responding right before and then had to respond again. Both instances were yes's. And it was interesting b/c he immediately became WH in that instant. He wasn't owning up to what his actions had done to me, just that he did it. And wanted to change the subject and get back to the boys.
How I started the convo was saying that boys are giving me a hard time. And I am trying to reach them, but they are just like him and shut down on me. So I was asking for help in understanding what is happening so that I can reach them. He was all ears and offering suggestions telling me that even though they are shutting down, there are really listening.
And that's when I asked him. So all those years he heard me and never acknowledged me, knowing that it drove me nuts.
Then he said, someone who shuts down, unwilling to acknowledge what's going on, but is really listening the only difference being that they are teenagers. He offered - What you can do is just say your piece and walk away. Leave it in their lap knowing that what you are saying is really going in.
I didn't thank him then, I called him back later last night and interrupted his time with OW to thank him. LOL, that was a gift from G-d that he answered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am not sure how I exactly responded, because I heard the shift in who I was talking to and I didn't want to LB. I just realized what I had just gotten and let him continue to talk without interrupting him. I USED to do that.
He LOVES to talk and actually it does kinda bore me, but that's a part of him that I need to learn to accept and love him for it.
I will say, his self righteous, know all attitude was driving me nuts. I really can't stand the WH at all. He suggested doing a chore chart, something I asked him to help me create for years and years and he just put it off. LOL - silly man, he was chirping like a bird giving me so much information and experience to understand what and who I am dealing with.
I don't want to leave you hanging, but DD just got home and I'm off to spend time with her right now.
Suffice it to say that I think this interaction is important, even though WH showed up mid-conversation. He gave you a clue,, some insight, and even if he didn't realize it, he was watching your reaction very closely.
AND
You are on track with your honest evaluation of your reaction to his "know it all" attitude. Good job with listening. Being in sales, this is the ONE piece of advice I give (although even *I* should do better) that I give to all new sales folks. LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN.
Most people just want to feel like they are being HEARD.
Your PLAN A is SUPERB and is being EFFECTIVE. He is opening the door for CONVERSATION, ADMIRATION, FAMILY COMMITMENT...it's GREAT, SG...
Now it's necessary to move towards communicating your need for him to come home to be you and the boys..that you CANNOT raise them ALONE..that you want to work with him as a REAL TEAM..Do you think you should start with a note and cookies? Or is he ready to HEAR you SAY it in a CONVERSATION?
Thanks Mimi for the encouragment. I can't see what you are seeing so I am going on the trust of you and others who understand it. He is NOT ready to hear me say anything because he is SO LOST in the Fog. He TRULY believes he HAS MOVED on. I think a note and cookies would be a good start. I'm not sure how to go about this. Can you help me understand a little more. I guess I am wondering if I came right out and said it, he would say no and retreat more into the WH. Does that make sense?
How would I KNOW if he was READY to hear me say something like that. Especially after what he said to me this weekend?
I have no challenge asking him to meet me for frisbee, what are you thinking? The only challenge is kinda the weather right now. He suggested that I do it up under the cover at school. Let me think about this.
I have to run YS up to dance and then AA meeting. Will you be on later?
Well, if hubby likes talking, and likes giving you advice, that is what I would work on. I'm sure that OW did. I would continue talking about the boys' problems and following his advice on dealing with it, and then asking some more, and telling him how helpful he is.
It will make hubby feel good, and it will drive OW crazy.
Sending love and hugs to you and those beautiful children of yours. You'll never know what a great support you've been to me as I travel my journey.
Anyway, the consensus 'round these parts is the gift is from WH (not H) and a manipulative ploy now that the heat is being turned up in Affairland with the lawsuits and mediation and low checking accounts and ever increasing credit card debt...you get the picture! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
WH is even starting to call his parents (had no use for them since this whole thing blew up) and dropping oh-so-subtle hints that his "money situation" is iffy. MIL and FIL are all on that ...won't give him a dime while he's invloved with OW. Did I tell you I love my in-laws??
So dark I shall remain. But you, my friend, are doing an awesome Plan A. I am not worthy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Hey, check out Lostva's story (Resilent just posted it). Great Plan A story -- SHE was the one I was telling you about on the phone that wasn't a Plan B type of girl. (sorry I misquoted you Princessmeggy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />)
He is NOT ready to hear me say anything because he is SO LOST in the Fog. He TRULY believes he HAS MOVED on.
True..GARDEN-VARIETY WS..just as my H was..
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I guess I am wondering if I came right out and said it, he would say no and retreat more into the WH.
First of all, this is ALL ABOUT YOU, remember? No expectation of ANY RESPONSE from him. In fact, your WH has given more of an opening than many..with what he was sharing with you over the phone.
This is about YOU working YOUR PLAN. PLAN A and PLAN B go hand in hand. In preparation for PLAN B, it's important for you to set the stage for him reconciling with you, what it will be like, how things have changed, what you are like, how he will be happy, that you will be able to forgive him, etc. A PART OF HIM WANTS THIS. He likely does not believe that it is possible NOW. So you want to FEED HIM this stuff. Some of it he will get, some of it he will not but he can become clear about what your position on this is....
So as LA would say, this is about YOU speaking YOUR TRUTH..about what YOU want, how YOU FEEL, what YOU NEED. Simply communicate with him. "I WANT OUR MARRIAGE"..
This will not push him further into being a WS. He already is a WS. You are a LIGHTHOUSE..beckoning him HOME to his FAMILY where he BELONGS and you are letting him know CLEARLY that the DOOR is OPEN for him.
MY FORWARDNESS about this is what MY HUSBAND found to be ATTRACTIVE. That's the PERSONAL POWER. You are communicating I AM SOMEBODY and I'M GOING TO LET YOU KNOW WHO I AM AND WHAT I WANT. IF YOU LOSE ME, YOU HAVE LOST SOMEONE SPECIAL..Head up, chest out...
I've been super busy tonight (picture TAZ in a maroon Saturn and you have JT tonight) but I did get a chance to read your thread and a few threads where you posted encouragement to others.
You are doing AWESOME! Sometimes I think when we get to that place where we are willing to break down in front of God, and our souls are beyond words-that's when God does His greatest work in us. It was in something you said about completely abandoning ourselves to Him, and not stepping out in our independent spirit=that made me think about this. Also, when you said that it doesn't have to "make sense". It's as if our souls know it makes sense on a spiritual level.
I am so happy that God let me be part of your journey.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I want to give you the verse that was my grandpa's life verse. I'll tell you his story when we meet up after school lets out. He was 101 when he passed.
Prov. 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge Him, and He will direct your path."
Let's set the stage and have me DO IT. First though, I keep going back to something he said last week about him being somebody. I really think I need to somehow communicate this to him. In an ecard perhaps? He clearly doesn't think he is somebody or he wouldn't be living with a crackho. True?
Head up, Chest Out - Yes, I remember, it's about ME. You are so right about what he is giving me. He won't respond, but he is hearing every word I say. So let's work on what I can say that if nothing else will impact ME. This personal power thing is so new. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
A few things to keep in mind, he has to TRULY BELIEVE THAT THINGS HAVE CHANGED. I don't know if he does or not. Then, he has to BELIEVE THAT HE IS ABSOLUTELY NUMBER ONE IN MY LIFE. This is crucial. I can do it, I just am not sure what to say exactly.
Example - Hi there, I wanted to call and talk to you about something? I want you to know how much I want to create the most magnificent marriage that I believe G-d has planned for us. We have the greatest opportunity to glorify G-d by taking this experience and creating a new life together that is based on a deep love and respect for each other where we are learning how to meet each others needs in the most basic ways. I want us to raise our children as true team partners in life creating the loving home that we both have always desired and have the opportunity to finally have. What do you think? What happens if he does his babble about his life is with her now? Or he has no desire for me and wants something more than to be married to his best friend.
And would I do this soon or have a few more conversations with him around the kids and how much I appreciate his help and what I have done with his suggestions? Oh this is too fun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm gain to do this if you are game to walk me through it teacher. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hey Smartie, I'm glad you got a consensus on how to handle the gift. So enjoy it and we can talk about the recipes you are going to make.
I love it when you give me scripture to read. Your wisdom is such a wealth of joy. Thank you. I'm not kidding this book that I began reading last night is amazing. It completely put things into perspective for me and helped me to just utterly and completely surrender to G-d. That's what he wants is total dependence on him.
If he is the only one who can ulitmately bless me, I'm tired of fighting him.
I really want you to know how you stopped me from hurting myself last night. Your kindnes of talking with me gave me the strength to break down and turn my life over to him, trusting it will be ok one day.
I'm grateful to G-d that he has you be a part of my journey. I treasure your wisdom and look forward to truly talking torah and scripture from a knowledgeable base and each of us sharing our insights. That will come one day with G-ds hand.
Your grandpa sounds like a very wise man. Can you tell me about him. Were you close to him?
How are you today? Taking care of yourself, I hope.
Prov. 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge Him, and He will direct your path."
WOW..this is my absolute favorite Bible verse. It's written on a plaque which has sat on my dresser since PLAN B. It's still there for me to see when I wake up each morning...
Prov. 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge Him, and He will direct your path."
WOW..this is my absolute favorite Bible verse. It's written on a plaque which has sat on my dresser since PLAN B. It's still there for me to see when I wake up each morning...
This is one of MY favorite verses too! Especially the part about "...lean not unto your own understanding...". I can completely put my trust in Him. Even if I don't GET IT, He does.
First though, I keep going back to something he said last week about him being somebody. I really think I need to somehow communicate this to him. In an ecard perhaps? He clearly doesn't think he is somebody or he wouldn't be living with a crackho. True?
Agreed. PERFECT PLAN. A more simple way of thinking of my previous post is that you have to help him find THE PATHWAY home. I used the analogy of HANSEL and GRETEL using the BREADCRUMBS and that stuck with my H. He talked about FINDING THE BREADCRUMBS. Your H may feel that he is so STUCK there in the HO's web that he can't possibly get himself untangled. I had to help my H understand that he had NO OBLIGATION to his HO, that I NEEDED him and that she had to own her responsibility for the mess that they had made. HE FELT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WHOLE MESS in the midst of his FOGGINESS.
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Hi there, I wanted to call and talk to you about something? I want you to know how much I want to create the most magnificent marriage that I believe G-d has planned for us. We have the greatest opportunity to glorify G-d by taking this experience and creating a new life together that is based on a deep love and respect for each other where we are learning how to meet each others needs in the most basic ways. I want us to raise our children as true team partners in life creating the loving home that we both have always desired and have the opportunity to finally have.
You have EXACTLY what it's important to COMMUNICATE to HIM...BUT, not in ONE CONVERSATION..LOL...in a SERIES of CONVERSATIONS and in ACTIONS..this is your MISSION STATEMENT..what you are wanting to accomplish...so BIT by BIT..in each interaction that you have with him...For example, in a conversation about your sons: "I would love the chance for us to work together as a team in rearing them"..then STOP...in another conversation: "I want you to come live with us"..STOP...SIMPLE AND SUCCINCT STATEMENTS that you repeat over and over...He is a WS...with a FOGGY mind...with POOR COMPREHENSION abilities...he's on a HIGH...Get it?
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What happens if he does his babble about his life is with her now? Or he has no desire for me and wants something more than to be married to his best friend.
I learned to IGNORE most of what my WH SAID...That's another trick..SOME important stuff may occasionally come out of his mouth..but it is mostly BULL to try to throw you off of YOUR PLAN...
You want to MAINTAIN YOUR CONTROL..this is YOUR PLAN..he has no plan..
And know this: FOR THE WS, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS..take note of his ACTIONS..This is almost a direct quote from my H who acknowledges that HE WAS the MASTER BSer..He said that he actually started BELIEVING the BS that he was SAYING that he was so GOOD at ACTING... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Take note of your WH's actions..He's having telephone conversations with you now..he was compliant when you set limit at the tournament..he picked up the phone and called you...he shared A SLICE of his concerns about the marriage...AND I guarantee you that he can't get HIS VISION of YOU out of his mind...as much as he may want to...VISIONS of you are clicking up...
And I also GUARANTEE you that the OW is counting for you to just GO AWAY and ACCEPT his BS...
Silly me, that's why I was so shocked at what you were writing. I thought you wanted me to just come out and say all that at once. THIS I CAN COMPLETELY DO.
Stop shaking your head everyone, it's still early on the west coast. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Simple, short and moving loving statements that bring Mr. Hansel home. WHOA!! I think I found my name. How about Mr. Hansel. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Bugs, what do you think?
Hey Mimi, You can pretty much forget everything I said about the fog stuff, because I was responding to this being a one shot deal. If this is over time, I can so ignore WH and babble, well I'm getting better at it.
BIT BY BIT, I am going to bring Mr. Hansel home. HEAD'S UP, CHEST OUT AND HE DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE, NOT WITH G-D, YOU, and EVERYONE WHO IS HELPING AND PULLING FOR ME, AND MB PRINCIPLES ON MY SIDE.
I absolutely agree that untangling him from her is HUGE. She is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT on him. No job, no money, no place to live. UGH, but I AM STRONGER, WISER, AND THE WIFE. WHO KNOWS HER HUSBAND BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THIS EARTH.
I think OW got quite an example that I am NOT just going to go away on Sunday when I walked up to her. As sweet as I was, she completely knew her days were numbered and she doesn't stand a chance in the LONG RUN.
And then for her to have to experience the wrath of MY FRIENDS and in MY TOWN gave her another flavor she is in the wrong game with me. AT least i HOPE so.
She also thinks she has MY HUSBAND, she DOESN'T. She has the WAYWARD MONSTER. And I DON'T want HIM.
I completely see where my WH is believing everything he says. Truly... BUT, I am STRONGER, FIGHTING FOR MY MARRIAGE AND FAMILY, AND HAVE G-D ON MY SIDE.
First order of business. To CALL him and thank him for the suggestions on the boys. And get in the part of chid rearing. End of conversation.
Just as a learning tool, can these conversations be done on a message if he doesn't answer?
Did you know that you help me just as much as I help you?
You brighten my day...
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Just as a learning tool, can these conversations be done on a message if he doesn't answer?
BRIEF but well-worded messages...
"I'm missing you here with me"...
"Today I was thinking about the time when you, the kids and I did SUCH AND SUCH"....
And PRINCESS..thanks for the strokes..I learned this stuff from STEVE HARLEY...hours of coaching...I'm passing it on... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When I was reading your posts I really saw my feelings and my thoughts in you. That's what drew me to you. We are KINDRED SPIRITS.
I can't see where I help you as much as you help me, BUT ONE DAY MAYBE, and I'll take the compliment and know that if I am, it's b/c G-d is working in me to do his work. And that's a BLESSING.
One of the most joys I have found again in my LIFE is putting smiles on peoples faces and hearing them laugh. If you could hear how I laughed when I realized you didn't mean it all at once. LOL What a goof.
Oh, I am so UP FOR THIS.
You are one special lady and your HUBBY is SO LUCKY.
First order of business is to send that ecard saying that HE ALWAYS WAS SOMEBODY TO ME. What a harsh world he must live in to realize that a stupid card can make you someone. WOW......
Tomorrow I call and leave a message if I don't get him.
Monday I bring him some baked goodies with a note. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
If you could see my new glasses you would be amazed at the goddess style.
I am actually going to get contacts with bifocals. And then will REALLY get me some GODDESS STYLE SUNGLASSES. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I might even get a scarf to wear on my head. LOL - Not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Lucky me to live in a state where the sun won't shine until July. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Does anyone remember that movie Overboard with Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn?
Near the end of the movie Kurt Russell says - LET'S GO GET MOM.
My MOTTO - LET'S GO GET MY HUSBAND <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Oh that's I think what I meant, getting normal ones and then reading glasses.
I LOVE RHINESTONES!!! And FUN!! HUBBY has always been way more conservative than me, borderline uptight and boring. I am the loose experience life. Evidentl Hansel has a DARK side to him that needs to be expressed. Which I might ADD, I always encouraged him to express with me, but he SAID he couldn't do that with his WIFE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
LOL, I don't remember that part, I will go back and find it. What a silly man.
I was thinking about getting H Wizard of Oz as a gift one day. Think he will get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
LOL, I don't remember that part, I will go back and find it. What a silly man.
Don't waste your precious time, looking for that CRAP. I'm not even sure that I posted about it. Just a BLIP on the RADAR SCREEN... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I spent the morning up at district office at a Round Table Meeting which is all the Presidents of the PTA's come and talk with the superindentent about what's happening in the school. They were talking about some stuff that I already sit on a committee and have the information, so my mind was wandering. I was thinking about what you said about your H liking when you were more "powerful".
In my M, I was always the outgoing, more powerful one and he hated that. He hated the connections and respect that I have within our many communities. He just wanted me to himself. I think that's why he picked such a loser.
One of the things that I have learned is how much I needed him in my life. Eveyone imagined me leaving him, not the other way around or absolutely not being destroyed the way I was.
Anyways, wouldn't being more assertive or powerful be the same person I always was and turn off to hubby? But then I hear that she orders him around and he has to be in constant contact with her. I don't know what I am trying to say, but wanted to explore this. What do you think?
Hansel has a DARK side to him that needs to be expressed. Which I might ADD, I always encouraged him to express with me, but he SAID he couldn't do that with his WIFE.
I have described my H's affair as his "WALK ON THE WILD SIDE"..he HAD always been so STRAIGHT and CONSERVATIVE..GOODY TWO-SHOES...it was all PRETENSE..now he is MORE REAL...
I sent Hansel a Thinking of You Card that was beautiful. It says, I was just thinking that it's not the same without you. Wish you were here. And I wrote - You were ALWAYS somebody to ME.
"In my M, I was always the outgoing, more powerful one and he hated that. He hated the connections and respect that I have within our many communities. He just wanted me to himself. I think that's why he picked such a loser. "
ONG--I cannot tell how many people have said the same thing to me once they found out my WH left to be with OW--"We always thought if you broke up, you'd be the one to leave him." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> WH was SO jealous that I was successful in my career, that my world was expanding beyond him with school and new friends. Hence, picking an OW who made him believe her whole world revolves around him.
But things may be shifting in affairland as of today. You and I need to TALK girl. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
In my M, I was always the outgoing, more powerful one and he hated that. He hated the connections and respect that I have within our many communities. He just wanted me to himself. I think that's why he picked such a loser.
I considered myself "POWERFUL" in the past. In reality. I was CONTROLLING, JUDGMENTAL AND SELF-RIGHTEOUS. That's not real PERSONAL POWER.
I didn't consider my H's point of view. I wanted him to be who I wanted him to be because of course I KNEW THE RIGHT WAY. I had to FIX everything and be IN CHARGE of everything....YUCK..I'm so not that person anymore..
So what happened was his PRIMARY NEED for ADMIRATION was not met. I didn't RESPECT him. He wasn't the MAN OF THE HOUSE. I didn't allow HIM to be the DADDY. All of this is so difficult for me to say and acknowledge.
So the PYT (PRETTY YOUNG THING) easily crept in...for him to mold and to teach and... HOW ADMIRABLE he was to her...WHAT A MAN...
His choice to pursue HER was WRONG and DEVASTATING...
But I own my part...
The thing is, SG, I wasn't REALLY.. POWERFUL. I wasn't REALLY evidencing LOVE for MYSELF. Let's see how can I put it? Real power is INTERNAL...is there on the inside. It is not PUSHY. It's like the SUN that makes a person take their coat off..not like the WIND that makes the person bundle up tighter. I was like the WIND, blowing down on my H and other people, being overbearing rather than JUST BEING ME..
Yes it DOES and you are so right to the difference. I was JUST LIKE YOU. Of course I would add in manipulative. YUKKY
I am not sure the difference has developed in me enough for him to see? Does that make sense?
Well, my card didn't get read, I don't believe. I didn't get confirmation. He was online and didn't say hi.
However on a PERSONAL RECOVERY line, I went out with some friends and had a blast. They ALL want him out of my life and think I can DO some much better. That there is someone who will treat me like the woman I deserve to be treated and they don't believe the addiction line or that he is in a fog. All they see is the hurt inside and the way he treated me for so long.
Since I began reading that book, there is a difference in me. I still STAND for MY M, and LOVE my H, but each day I believe my FAITH in G-D becomes stronger so that whatever his plans are, I WILL BE ok.
Hey Mimi, at least yours was a PYT and you could almost see what could happen. Mine is uglier than imaginable and a crack ho with a disease. It just boggles the mind, completely and totally. And still HURTS.
Plus I MISS HIM.
How did you know when you started to feel more powerful?
They ALL want him out of my life and think I can DO some much better. That there is someone who will treat me like the woman I deserve to be treated and they don't believe the addiction line or that he is in a fog. All they see is the hurt inside and the way he treated me for so long.
I don't want to knock your friends because I know that they love and care about you. But I had to surround myself with friends who share MY BELIEFS about MARRIAGE. They knew my H well and couldn't imagine that he could do such a horrid thing without being UNDER THE INFLUENCE of SOMETHING..if not DRUGS ..then EVIL..they PRAYED for me and WITH ME...I couldn't spend time with or talk with those who wanted me to move on because I felt they were not being sensitive to MY FEELINGS and what I wanted....
It's GREAT that you were able to have a GOOD TIME,though. I never quite got THERE....
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Hey Mimi, at least yours was a PYT and you could almost see what could happen. Mine is uglier than imaginable and a crack ho with a disease. It just boggles the mind, completely and totally. And still HURTS.
She was/is YOUNG but not that ATTRACTIVE. I'm much more ATTRACTIVE. But my H said that it was NOT AT ALL about HER LOOKS. It was about HOW SHE TREATED HIM..It was about how she made him FEEL...She was able to create that HIGH for him.
So she's wasn't a REAL PERSON..like I am now..like you were at the lacrosse tournament. That's why they are attracted to our assertiveness. The OW IS NOT REAL. THE OW IS FANTASY..all about focusing on meeting HIS NEEDS. You can't live that way for the rest of your life....at one point it has to get REAL...
That's what happens during PLAN B. He will get to know the REAL HER..You have to STAY DARK so that's all that he has...and she can't keep it up 24/7.
How did you know when you started to feel more powerful?
The beginning of this for me, December 2002, is not included in the thread that you have read.
I literally thought that I could not possibly live without my H. Like you, the other day, I wanted to die. I was anorexic, not sleeping, not eating... CRAZY almost when he left me... I had been with him since age 18, went from dorm room to marriage, have never lived on my own. So I knew that I had really changed when I told him that day that I would let him go, that he was FREE to go until he wanted me back. My H thought that I would ALWAYS be there for him, sitting in that house waiting FOREVER if necessary. I made tha decision at that point and he didn't know it yet that I was going to let him go..TO MOVE out of the house..and to start a new life without him. I didn't get as far as Bugsy but I imagined that it would look like her life....or moreso Believer's...I like to hear about her life like you read about Bugsy... I couldn't take it like it was anymore....
But now, he is the most WONDERFUL PERSON ever. Talking with you lately encouraged me to tell him so... because we have MIRACULOUSLY come so far. He is such a CHANGED MAN and I really "LIKE" him is what I told him tonight. I really "LIKE" the MAN he has become. All part of GOD'S PLAN...
I don't want to knock my friends either. However, I have learned ALOT about who my TRUE friends are. And to be honest, you have been MORE a friend then some of the closest ones I thought I had. In fact if it weren't for you, Smartie, JT, James, Believer, Bugs, Orchid, and some others, I wouldn't have made it. I am so grateful that you stayed and didn't leave when you were talking about it. Mimi you and the others on here have My permission to knock whatever you need to, in order to keep me focused and on track for my Plan A and then B. My old sponsor once told me to have people in my life who cared more about my life than my feelings. I considered this website to care more about my life than my feelings and that is a TRUE BLESSING.
As for my "CLOSE friends" it's all about doing what they WANT me to do, and when I DON'T it's because I am choosing not to. Can you believe that. One of the things I need to develop is assertiveness for anyone. People think of me as the strongest, most accomplished, warm, fun, loving person. And that's awesome, but you know. If you don't have the one you love then it's kinda empty. I know my life will go one without him and because of G-d, you and others on here one day I will be whole again. But there will always be a part of my heart that will NEVER RECOVER from losing the man I trusted so completely to ALWAYS BE THERE.
Ok, time to stop. I have to remember this was G-ds path and HE WILL turn this into GOOD one day. I just need to wait on him and keep being dependent on him for my lifeline.
You are right it's about how she MAKES him FEEL, but the sad part is I REALLY tried, at least I thought I was, but it never seemed good ENOUGH. And that's where I really need to come to terms and understand, this need in my H is something that isn't going to get filled by anyone but G-d. That's why I MUST keep my FAITH in G-d. He truly is the ONLY thing that can bring my H home. I see the emptiness in my H and it breaks my heart, you know why, b/c G-d is my life now and I understand the difference.
I hurt for my H b/c he is losing out on the remaining months of our MS at home. Something he can NEVER get back. But his choice. I hurt for my H b/c I know who he is deep deep inside and somewhere in this Monster is a man who is slowly dying and I'm scared for him.
Did I tell you that I keep a journal of what's going on in my boys life to give to him when MY REAL HUBBY comes home and he wants to understand what he missed.
I also light a candle EVERY night since he left (well almost), that sits between two stuffed animals that we bought each other when we were dating. As I light it, I say, I love you, I believe in you and have FAITH in G-d.
I look forward to the day that G-d lets him come home and I don't have to burn it anymore. Do you think that's stupid?
Ok, so onto figuring out my Plan A for tomorrow. Since I didn't hear a word from WH on the card, what do you think? Leave him a lone for the weekend and then call on Monday? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I am so happy for you and glad you told him. I am so glad for you that G-d gave you that chance to create something magnficent and truly appreciate and enjoy it.
I pray for that same chance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ok, good news. Hansel just read my card and it will be with him for the rest of the night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He didn't acknowledge it to me online, but who knows maybe there will be an email. No expectations right. It's just about me and I LOVE sending him them.
IMO, God gives us FREE WILL and your H has to choose to work towards his OWN HEALING. God is there for him but he has to turn to HIM.
It interesting that you mention your sons. My YS was in of high school during all this and is now a senior in college. My H, just tonight, on his own said: "I've got to get know him; I don't know him as well and you do"..BLEW ME AWAY that my H would make that acknowledgement (of being in THE FOG during his adolescence) which led to me saying how much I "like" him....
TIME CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS and YOUR HUSBAND CAN CHANGE...
ARK on the forum here..taught me that..another one of my PERSONAL RECOVERY LESSONS..cause I thought my H's relationship with our sons particularly the YS would never heal..
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR HOPE AND FAITH...your sons have plenty of time left to heal their relationship with their father..if HANSEL chooses the path with the breadcrumbs.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Yep...let him sit with the card..
Try to do something GREAT AND NEW for yourself this weekend...keep your eyes and ears open for a BLESSING...
As you said, I KNOW my H better than anyone else. HE WON'T CHOOSE to turn to G-d b/c he BELIEVES he has a GREAT relationship with G-d. Or is that just more WW crap.
Just wanted you to know I've been around today-popping in to read and such-but haven't had much time to actually get on the computer and write.
OS just got home from WSU for winter break. YS and the dogs immediately surrounded him and there was some punching and slobber (the punching was between the boys-the slobber was from the dogs. Well, I hope it was...)
Just wanted you to know that I am rooting for you-
My WW wouldn't even meet me in the church parking lot one night to do an exchange.. I was supposed to meet with the Priest that night..
She actually said to me when I invited her to talk with the priest.. 'There's nothing I feel I need to speak with a priest about'
Well.. that about floored me.
It's all bovine droppings.. it's that stuff you gotta cut with a horn and hope the lighthouse shines through... it's the enemy talking out of the lips of ones we love.. trying to bring discouragement.. the enemy has captured our spouses, and seeks only to destroy us, and our families.. by standing, we are putting on the armor of God and standing not just for our spouses and ourselves.. but for Him in this spiritual battle.. God will fight this battle.. we have just been called to be his STANDard bearers.
"Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
"Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one."
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints...." Ephesians 6:10-18
"do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you, but rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ..." (1 Peter 4:12-13) *your mileage on this may vary but you asked what it meant to me*
I kinda stumbled onto the Armor of God thoughts as I was reading the story of David and Goliath again..
I've been getting messages recently.. especially leading up to my 'declaration' post last week about trusting in the Lord, and not my own understanding.. what I see or what I hear.. trust only what comes from Him and his guidance rather than the worldly guidance of others... even up to and including these boards (though you guys have kept me on the path too.. and am -very- thankful for the advice)..
But the part of the story where David goes into the tent and puts on a soldier's armor.. finds it ill fitting and cumbersome.. because afterall, he was only a young boy. The advice of others, tainted by their own experiences.. while valuable and well intended doesn't always fit us. David instead trusted in God to protect him, and wandered onto the pitch wearing his every day clothes.. armed only with a sling and some stones against a well armored and battle worn giant.
The plans, are wonderful for self healing.. and many will tell you, but it doesn't seem to sink in.. the Plans are for the BS.. not to -make- the WS do or think anything.. that's just a bonus -if- they do. They are not our armor, the Plans do not deflect the hurtful things our spouses say.. the Plans do not dictate our actions necessarily.. they are simply a way for US to heal and present a person to the world that -anyone- would want, and be fortunate to have as a spouse.
We need God's protection, and our faith to keep us strong in the moments where we come under attack from our WS.. that, to me is where the Armor of God comes in.. look at what it consists of..
Truth Righteousness Peace Faith Prayer Supplication to God
If we can hold onto and maintain -those- things in our life.. God says that nothing hurtful or harmful can penetrate.. this allows us to withstand the venom and hate from our WS's, and 'turn the other cheek'... allows us to respond with love, compassion, and strength when the enemy comes to break our will, cause us doubt and hate, and to destroy us and our family.. that is what the enemy wants.. God simply gives us the tools to stand firm against the enemy.
How do you all understand it to be? I somehow confuse it with self-righteousness and the true meaning is getting lost. I seem to want to fight this word.
When I was SELF-RIGHTEOUS, it was all about ME. ME being right. ME knowing more about everything than anyone else. It was my TAKER in charge.
RIGHTEOUSNESS as a BELIEVER is LOVING. It's about GIVING of YOURSELF for the GREATER GOOD. It's about LISTENING to another person's viewpoint, coming to an understanding of another person and then MOVING FORWARD..TOGETHER..as a TEAM.
I was talking to my son last night and he was telling me how I never used to listen to him. I hope LA is reading 'cause she helped me with this. And now he APPRECIATES how I listen to his point of view. I don't necessarily AGREE but I LISTEN. With RIGHTEOUSNESS, I then share my point of view out of MY LOVE and RESPONSIBILITY for the care of HIM as his mother....that PROVERBS 31 woman...
Just my off of the top of my head thoughts on this...
Heh... Mimi.. I recognize it for what it is.. Re: Sidebar
The enemy sees me winning.. sees me walking with God when he wants only to break me down and destroy me and my family.
I look at it today as a sign of encouragement that the devil is testing me, knowing where I am weak.. I pray in my heart that I have the strength to throw him off.. and keep my eyes on the Lord.
Righteousness.. according to Mirriam Webster: 1: acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin 2 a: morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b: arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>
Supplication (same source) 1: to ask humbly and earnestly of 2: to ask for earnestly and humbly
SG, you asked about righteousness? Here's something I found that explains the breastplate of righteousness pretty well:
"The breastplate covers the chest. In our case the breastplate is made not of iron but of righteousness. A soldier with his breastplate on goes boldly into battle full of confidence. Righteousness allows us to stand before God, men and demons.
Whereas the belt of truth show you what is yours and what you can do, righteousness allows you to do it. Without the breastplate of righteousness our faith would be like any mere religion - a form of godliness but no power to act. Satan would knock us down with one word of condemnation, nor would we have the boldness to go before the throne room of God's grace.
What is the breastplate of righteousness?
To be righteous is to have a right standing with God. It is being justified and free of condemnation."
The enemy sees me winning.. sees me walking with God when he wants only to break me down and destroy me and my family.
I look at it today as a sign of encouragement that the devil is testing me, knowing where I am weak.. I pray in my heart that I have the strength to throw him off.. and keep my eyes on the Lord.
EXACTLY what I was thinking, MY BROTHER!! You saw if for yourself....
HUMILITY makes RIGHTEOUSNESS distinct from SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS..that's a MAJOR DIFFERENCE...
I've learned to say out loud to my loved ones: "I could be wrong about this"...LOL...if you knew me before, you would understand why this is so SHOCKING to them and they LOVE hearing it... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
HUMILITY makes RIGHTEOUSNESS distinct from SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS..that's a MAJOR DIFFERENCE...
That is an EXCELLENT point Mimi, and really does apply to how a woman looks outwardly when she is righteous.
It's also a rule of thumb that I use when I weigh what another believer tells me. Is there true humility there or are they coming from a place of self-righteousness?
Quote - To be righteous is to have a right standing with God. It is being justified and free of condemnation."
And as HIS WIFE and the MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN, I have that RIGHT to stand for my M.
I have to agree with you James, I am coming to learn that these down moments are the work of the devil sliding into our life.
I have to take Mimi's suggestions and shake my head and tell him to get lost. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> When I am really LOW, I scream to him at the top of my lungs to get away from me.
It's been 7 months today since D-day. For some reason there is a peace or acceptance today. I could really go down that road of victim and sadness, but I DON'T WANT to.
I want to celebrate the successes and honor G-d for them. First and most important I have a RELATIONSHIP with G-d that is the most precisous and important to me. I have lost 77 .5 lbs. I have met some of the most caring individuals in my life on this website who have walked with me on this journey and quite literally save my life. I have developed a closer loving relationship with all my children.
Personally I am NO LONGER that angry person who could rip the head off of my H or children. I live a sane life because of G-d. I live a way of life that is calm, without drama unless Hansel is in it. I have come to understand WHAT it TRULY most important to me and my life.
But most important - I have come to realize that G-ds plan is for my M to be restored, and that I am standing for my M, my H still has free will and that no matter whether we are reunited or not, I will heal one day COMPLETELY AND WHOLE, and that SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY, G-d will turn this into good.
7 months ago today my world was rocked, today I live differently b/c G-d is my Shepherd.
Good morning everyone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Wow, the stuff you are giving me to absorb and understand is precious. Thank you. I have a 2 day weekend with really nothing to do but clean my apartment and finally ahve some ALONE time with G-d for more than an hour. I am really going to allow all this to sink in and allow it to become more of my life.
Can you tell me how you see humility working in your lives?
You know, there is so much that G-d wants me to learn, I am not praying for this or really saying it, but it's almost as if he is keeping WH away so I can have the time to concentrate on what G-d wants me to learn.
I know that if H were home, I would be concentrating on that. Which is NOT what G-d wants. He wants me to find, live and completely be at peace with the balance of all of this.
I can recognize I am NOT there yet.
When do you know when you are?
You know, one of the things I have always entertained is studying to be a rabbi because I have always had a NEED to have a close relationship with G-d. I prayed for that for so long. Well, I have my close relationship with G-d. And one day I will see that though it seems it was at the cost of my M, I am way BETTER b/c of it.
I'm going to have to get an SG cheerleader uniform.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (Actually there are a few of us who are on the squad. I hope they know a few cheers because I was never on that team in school. I was playing soccer and basketball....)
Tonight I am taking YS and his girlfriend (it's so cute-his first girlfriend) to the "Punk the Halls" concert at Overlake Christian Church. It's 4 Christian punk bands so they should have fun. My friend Sharon is coming with me and we are going to hang out at Bellevue Square, IF we can find parking, before we take them home.
Last night I got a message that one of my former students is graduating from WWU tomorrow at 10 am and wanted me to come. It took him 6 years, but he made it!
Beyond that, I'll just be baking cookies for a group of girls from church to decorate for families in the church, and walking my dog by the Skagit River, and taking YS to his riding lesson. He is learning how to do gaming (pole bending and barrel racing) for the fair this summer.
It's a busy life. OS is going to see if he can get some seasonal work at Fred Meyer.
I love it when my house is full. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
We will definitely talk this week-end. Do you want to try to meet in the middle some time next week?
Can you tell me how you see humility working in your lives?
LOL... Pre-Affair(s) I guess you could say I was smug and secure in my marriage and my life and humble wasn't in my vocabulary. I was so smart, strong and intelligent that I could take on anything and come out a winner (or so I believed).
I didn't really worry too much about how I treated my DH or other people for that matter. I pretty much barreled through things my way. Wow. What a wake-up call for me. Suddenly, I was losing everything, and fast. Sure part of it was my DH's actions but another part was the way I had become complacent in every aspect of my life, including God. My trust was in ME... not HIM.
I became a quick study. I realized that the ONLY thing I could count on in this life is that God loves me and will never leave me. No longer am I judgmental of others (or at least I try not to be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). No longer do I take for granted the people and things that are in my life. No longer do I turn my nose up at the small blessings in my life. When I speak, I am more careful to weigh what I say because now I know that words are powerful. Words can speak blessings or curses on others.
ANYTHING I say or do, I want it to come from a humble heart... not one of pride or meanness. I can pass a homeless person on the street now and actually imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes, where before I would only think of them as an annoyance.
I KNOW God and His heart. I WANT to have God's heart. I WANT God's heart to show up in the things I do, even when it requires strength that I no longer think I have. It doesn't mean I'm a doormat and will let people walk over me. But now instead of fighting tooth and nail by my own force of will, I can walk away or stand STRONG in His righteousness. No one can do that without being humble.
The uniforms need to be burgund and gold. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am such a goof, my cell phone has gone dead and I think it's because I had it too close to my credit card. I surely hope they will replace it for me, I have only had it for a little over a month.
Yes, I would love to talk over the weekend, I am pretty much holed up for some needed alone G-d time and rest with my children and watching football on Sunday. I have put off cleaning my apt and want to get that totally completed.
Would you like to meet half way next Friday. I have MC and IC on Thursday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Finding parking at Bellevue, put in an order with G-d. That is one daunting task. I love that mall.
I KNOW God and His heart. I WANT to have God's heart. I WANT God's heart to show up in the things I do, even when it requires strength that I no longer think I have. It doesn't mean I'm a doormat and will let people walk over me. But now instead of fighting tooth and nail by my own force of will, I can walk away or stand STRONG in His righteousness. No one can do that without being humble.
YES..THIS IS IT!! So beautifully, beautifully stated...
SG, you are my inspiration! It was suggested by Mark that I read your story as I (Stupidly) put myself in a situation where I pushed my WW for a decision on if she was leaving me. I've only been doing Plan A for a couple of weeks and made some pretty major mistakes on the way. I was concerned about doing Plan A after she moved out (Was thinking about going to Plan B) but your story has inspired me to not give up on Plan A until the tank is almost dry (Which I'm no-where close to). Thanks and keep up the good work!
Your insight is awesome and EXACTLY where I am at.
Back in Sept 06 I got the ILYVNIL with your speech. At that time I realized I was losing him and it was either my arrogrance or absolute blind trust in H that he wasn't having an affair but just going through something.
At that time we were in marriage counseling and he was lying. I encouraged him to seek his answers. I kept telling him how much I loved him and appreciate him, etc. I realized at that time I was in danger of losing him and tried all the WRONG things. I was still LB and not filling up his tank and still fixing his journey, the journey that was never MINE. OBVIOUSLY I hadn't found this website.
But more IMPORTANT than anything, G-d was missing from my life.
I want exactly what you want with respect to G-d and I can be grateful today that I am learning, applying that in my life.
It actually is possible for me to become a rabbi. My wise rabbi says that amount of work it would take isn't worth it because of my age and how hard to eventually get a congregation would be. But, there are more and more woman rabbi's coming out of rabbinic school.
I would need to start learning Hebrew fluently, which would take me a few years and then I would apply to rabbinic school in either LA, Cincinnati or NY. I would go for New York. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Closer to my Redskins! The timing is interesting because it takes about 3 or 4 years to learn hebrew from an online class which would be when my youngest son graduates high school. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Another one of my dreams is to visit or live in Israel. By becoming a rabbi, I would accomplish two life long dreams.
We are certainly GATHERING MORE KINDRED SPIRITS, I wonder if our SHEPHERD is telling us something. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
TNT - Thank you for what you said and Mark too, but please it hasn't been me. It's been G-d who has given me the FAITH to move forward. And THOSE ON HERE. The support I have gotten on here and G-ds grace working in my life sustains me for Plan A. That and the fact that I LOVE MY HUSBAND. TRUST those who respond to you on here and know that they have walked before us and carry the message of G-d in their hearts like I am learning to do daily.
What I have today more than anything is the desire to BE EXACTLY WHAT AND WHO G-D NEEDS ME TO BE. And to understand that my life and his need for me is bigger than I can imagine and so I need to just TRUST what he is doing and wait on him to show me his NEED OF ME.
Naw, I could NEVER ask someone to betray their colors. I WOULDN'T. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have to laugh, our school colors are blue and silver and I love the shirts we get. There is NO WAY that is touching my body.
We can personalize and be strong in hearts as one for G-d. And cheerlead our uniqueness as G-d loves us for who we ARE.
Now, we could go for a group set of SUNGLASSES WITH LOTSA RHINESTONES. Who's up for that?
Now.. do I have to wear the pleated skirt to be a cheerleader? Or can I be one of those hunks with the sweater and slacks carrying all the hawt GODDESSES on his shoulders?
As for the Scottish question.. I'm actually 1/2 Scottish on my mom's side.. the Robertsons.. only non-noble Highland clan permitted to wear a crown on their crest..
Since D-Day, 7 months tonight I chose to give up sugar. It's one of the most addictive drugs there is that's legal and deadly to me.
I could have been diabetic but almost 78 lbs later I think that is farther off now.
I want you to know that this has been the deepest PERSONAL GROWTH day I have experienced.
I feel deep inside that I have finally come to TERMS and ACCEPTED this situation as completely G-d orchestrated and that through this I am truly on the road to recovery and being a woman of Proverbs 31 and G-d.
I felt such overwhelming emotions for my gratefulness to G-d I didn't know what to do. I just kept crying joys of happiness.
And not coincidentally I think, have I really thought about WH. Something has shifted and changed. I'm more at peace with life because G-d is so good to me because of you, and so many others.
I don't want around ashamed for my mistakes anymore. I walk around KNOWING, TRULY KNOWING, that it's ok and one way or another, G-d will turn this into something good, actually in SO MANY ways, he already has.
On the one hand I am almost ready to go into Plan B and leave WH left to his own devices and more forward building more of my life. And yet, I KNOW that G-d wants my M and has enough FAITH in me to stand for my M no matter what.
I found my power through G-d. He is the one who gives it because he has HUGE plans for me.
NO, there is NO turning back EVER. I am forever CHANGED.
And should Hansel choose not to eat the crumbs. He is ONE STUPID and SICK MAN, who I will forever love and hold in my heart. BUT I am A WOMAN OF G-D, who deserves the best love has to offer.
I can honestly say that I WILL NOT take back this MONSTER.
But should that happen and the Hansel comes back before his time....
Then I will be here getting piece by piece instructions.
So now my sweet KINDRED SPIRIT,
Let's think of something good for Plan A this weekend. I think time is running out for me and I need to move to Plan B because I want to ensure that I am financially taken care of and don't want the courts to assume anything.
He hasn't responded to the ecard I sent. No surprise there. I am a little surprised that he hasn't emailed YS in over a week. What do you think?
Thanks, I think you sensed how aimless I feel today.
WH was just online, didn't say hi, but told me to have a good day and then hurried off before I could respond. He hasn't talked to me since before I sent the card.
I am frustrated with myself because I feel I wasted a Plan A opportunity by not driving the 30 miles one way on a hunch that he would be there playing soccer. However, my son had my car and I wouldn't have had the ability to drive anyway.
Ah...there is turmoil inside of me today. What is happening? Why do I have great days one day full of strength and faith and then absolutely lost and sad the next day. Weekends seem to be the hardest because I know they are together all day long.
And for the first time in a long time, I can't shake the absolutel lying that he did to pull this off. He withheld intimacy from me for over a year telling me I wasn't safe and he couldn't trust me. It is driving a knife in my heart knowing that they are doing all the things I want to be doing with him. And he is putting his life on the line by not taking precautions. What if he gets Hep C.
Ok, onward to the rags and dishes and floors. [censored] AND SPAN...
And why am I doing this by the way. Says the Jewish American Princess?
You're right about Gretel, because when I read the story I didn't think that fit at all.
Not sure Miss Princess is really what I want to be called either. I was poking fun at me. I do need to come up with a name that I can call myself. I'll think about that.
Or I could just go by my Hebrew name which is Bracha' (blessing).
I was telling JT one day about my kids' names. How significant is this. My DD is named after my nana, Miriam, MY MS is Aaron, and my YS - his Hebrew name is Moshe.
I'll look for you later.
OK - just living life, nothing spectacular and do you know why? Because we are WHAT MAKES THEIR LIFE SPECTACULAR, not some OW/CHEAP IMITATION, right?
We are their lighthouse to G-d and life. I think I like Miss Lighthouse. What cha think?
Ah, nothing like going out shopping with my children. I bought my DD some groceries to take home. She brought me a brand new camera for me. I paid for it. She told WH it was a present. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am going to make molasses cookies and check in the cuboard and see what I have in inregients and go from there.
I invited DD and BF to come to dinner tomorrow. They are, so I can make a nice dinner for them.
She works with WH, and he got called into work last night to bring a set of keys to the shop to open up a truck. She listened to their convo in the back and explained to me how stupid this OW is. It was so funny I couldn't help but laugh. When I asked him what he loved about her - he said she was smart. He is so gone. It's scary. Who can give me an example of someone this bad who figured it out.
WH also gave DD a business card and said, now I am someone important. Oh, you guys this man is hurting inside. Does that give us more hope? DD completely sees how it is a different person. She says it's not even dad anymore. She says he looks different and dresses totally different. Get this - army green multi khaki pants with a fleece red and blue shirt. I saw those pants and I can pretty well promise they didn't match.
MY HUBBY wore jeans and t-shirts. Is dressing differently part of the alienation as well?
Oh well, on to figuring out what I need from the other store, go fake and bake (for me that I love), and then home to clean and sit with G-d and see whose here tonight.
You know what that is a very good point. I am going to have to ask her tomorrow. She was explaining something else to me and I was talking to all three of the kids at the same time.
She mentioned how WH got mad and wanted to know where I got the money.
I will need to check this out further. Thanks for catching it.
It's funny, the OLD me frivously spent money. And never had any. I no longer spend money to fill me up and I have extra. However, I got a bonus check from my 2nd job and used that money for the camera.
Her BF isn't working a job and she needs money, so I spent about 30.00 on groceries for her at WalMart.
I got a bonus check from my 2nd job and used that money for the camera.
Her BF isn't working a job and she needs money, so I spent about 30.00 on groceries for her at WalMart.
Thank you. You've made my point. You have nothing to hide. HEAD UP. CHEST OUT. You have nothing to explain to him. She could have told him the truth or said nothing. I guess I don't understand the entire interaction. He can choose to live with another woman, spend money on her and question you about a camera purchase?
Yes, that pretty much sums it up. I am dependent on him for money and he feels that I need to be accountable to him.
Now, once the LSA enters into it, all bets are off and if I manage to save extra money, it's none of his business. He still has control and likes that.
I'll have to ask about the interaction in order to understand it. My WH is angry with me because I packed away the short camera lens and haven't had time to go find it. So he feels he entitled to his camera before I get something. Or who knows.
And remember HE IS THE VICTIM in all this. NO ONE except my DD has ever challenged his choice and he has CHANGED. He doesn't like to know that I might be doing ok or even better financially without him.
He is also living in Deliverance with crack ho and maybe that gets to him when I get something new. I don't know and I really don't know what reasonable boundaries are because I always shared things with him.
WAIT A MINUTE: As the WIFE, I would have discussed it with him first or been buying it FOR him. And if he were MY HUBBY he wouldn't have denied ME ANYTHING. Just this monster.
SO YOU ARE RIGHT, CHEST OUT, CHIN UP and let him suffer his consequences of not knowing what I am doing with money that is a gift to me.
Now I am on a roll - alittle spunk never hurt anyone, especially A DOMESTIC WARRIOR GODDESS.
I am working two jobs, one that is totally high stress and multi tasking beyond belief, I am raising his children completely by myself - while he is off playing. It's not like I get a weekend break. I am taking the kids here and there and everywhere, and dealing with their anger and disrespect b/c that's how H treated me for YEARS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I managed to get US out of the financial ruin that was killing us along with coming up with enough money to get a lawyer off his back b/c the car HE CHOSE to buy DD ended up getting repo'd. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
All the while, he LIVES with crack ho, who is on state disability and doesn't work at all, except to cater to WH ever whim. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
He is really lost, he forgot golden rule #1 - I am a Jewish American Queen. My DD is the princess and my mother was the empress. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Not really.....
I was driving in my car today thinking about how you did to put them boys in the car, drop them off in DELIVERANCE and then drive off.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
OK, that TOOK AWHILE....I'M THERE NOW WITH YA KINDRED SPIRIT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I won't say one word unless HE ASKS. And then I'll just say I did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And tell him how much I would love to learn to use the camera together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
If you KNEW me before all this, you would be amazed at what a WIMP I have become. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
We seriously NEED TO BUILD ME SOME BACKBONE.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
How I NEED to put the boys in Deliverance. LOL..... They have NEVER met OW. They would eat her alive I think. OK, they are GOING TOMORROW..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I think I need to send him a bill for what a housewife should earn. Being a complete single parent must just about double my salary, wouldn't you agree? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Then again, what if I was spending it frivously, he NEVER denied me BEFORE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Why should I have to give up the lifestyle I am ACCUSTOMED TO LIVING. I've already gone from a 3000 sq ft house to a 1235 sq ft apt.
But we won't tell him how much better I am doing without him around financially. He made things crazy by spending money and not telling me about it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
WH or H, not sure just asked me how my day was? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I said pretty good, I have been baking, cleaning and took DD and DYS for grocery shopping.
I told him that I needed to go get DMS and hoped to see him soon. The I got off real quick. Which I am about to do.
Won't it be interesting if I see him online again tonight. NO EXPECTATIONS, but he has contacted me twice now today. Wonder if he has had long day trying to figure out what to say to BRAINS. I need to figure a name out for her as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I would love to take a picture of him with my new camera. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Or is that DWG? Or JAQ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sorry I haven't been around until now. I was at my former student's graduation at WWU this morning. His GF and David-both former students as well-were there too. It was so good to see them. He is so excited. He majored in psychology and is still working on some experiments with his prof. They may get published and hope to present their findings at a conference in the new year.
I never made it to Bell. Square. My friend couldn't go with me. Her hubby was sick and her DD7 can be quite a ball of fire so she stayed home and I ended up at Redmond Town Center. YS and his GF had a good time at their concert too. First "real" date (well, except for the part where mom drove them...)
I was catching up on your thread and you are doing so great. It's such a testimony to God's grace and love.
I loved your answer to your DD about how long you will wait. Your faith is making you stronger and your kids are noticing. How cool is that?
"She who fears the Lord has a strong fortress, and for her children it will be a refuge." Prov.14:26.
I think the best way to thank him is an ecard. They are warm reminders over and over again. What do you think?
I didn't miss my blessing!!! You see the reason I needed to get my son is because our car is broken. Now who do you suppose I am going to have to call and ask for advice on how to fix it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He is surely going to ask me why I needed to go get him.
Can you REMIND me, what vision of me last week? The one where I walked up to him and her and introduced myself in the most loving manner? Or when he saw me with my tight clothes on. Cause when I saw him over the weekend, I didn't look as hot as when I wore my red shirt?
I am just going to have to take a trip down to work with his favorite cookies and I also bought stuff to make homemade fudge. He loves fudge and I have NEVER made that for him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When I was at the store tonight, I realized I am one powerful woman in this town. I recognized so many people who stopped and say hi and wait to talk to me when I am finished with one conversation. I am one blessed person.
Hi JT, Hopefully we can talk tomorrow. I've been thinking about you. Iremember you telling me about the graduation. How exciting to see our students growing up and becoming successes.
Thank you. I am doing great because you helped me so much on Tuesday. This morning was a pity party, but then my daughter came over and I played and talked with her and had fun.
Glad that you had such a great time with your DD. Tomorrow I am hoping that all I am doing is heading to church and baking sugar cookies. But with everyone home, plans change.
(Right now there's DS19, DS15, DD25, DD22, DSIL24, DD25's dog-Onyx; DD22's dog-Grr; and JT's Jack Russell-Idgie. Plus, DD25's cat-Ash, but he stays outside most of the time since Idgie is a cat terrorist).
Thank goodness they all know how to do their own laundry. Now, if I could just get them to quit believing in the dishwasher fairy.
I will have my cell phone charged so feel free to call me sometime in the afternoon. We need to plan a time to meet!
Who is kidding who, probably not you. I did miss my BLESSING.
I got nervous when he was online and didn't want to have to answer to him over questions about the camera that I wasn't prepared to answer.
It sickens and confuses me, that someone as well known, respected and loved in the community, who is a leader in so many various capacities crumbles at the thought of being confronted by ONE MAN. But I do.
So can we please work on this a little longer and GET RID of it. I'm tired of it, but it happens most times, that I get scared to face the WH. He is mean and unpredictable and I haven't learned reverse babble good enough or believe in myself.
BUT, my CHIN IS UP AND CHEST OUT because I WANT to learn it.
You are right. I think it helps to know that when he walks into the stores with her, his chances of running into disapproving eyes from MY FRIENDS, helps a LITTLE. Not much.
Back to the PERSONAL POWER. This is so HARD for me. But, I keep praying and working towards it.
And you can rain on my PARADE anytime. Remember, I need people in my life who care more about my life than my feelings or parades. I want to restore my marriage, not be well known around town.
It's true really, the only ones I was to have influence over is my children and my family.
Back to basics then.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I was wondering. Last night when he contacted me and asked me about my day - would it have been too much to tell him that yes I did, but it missed you?
I'm concerned that I am overwhelming him at this point.
But you told me that I KNOW him better than anyone. And I know that if I overwhelm him he will get pushed farther away.
I am really mixed up, so please help me understand and sort out again.
I've been reading this book A Woman Afer G-ds Heart and I can SEE where I made so many mistakes. I think I am questioning why would G-d give me another chance.
How can I prove to G-d that I am worthy of this blessing?
Probably by not missing the ones HE GIVES ME, would be a HUGE start. Oh there is so much to LEARN...
I just posted over on James' am I really WORTHY of his coming home.
This book I am reading, which I read years ago, and didn't apply just has me so sad on how I was so NOT a woman of G-d.
Maybe somehow maybe this was just what was planned all along. I think about how many years ago when G-d was a part of our life, I put him first. Everyone was appalled at what I was doing by submissing to him. And it never seemed to help him or make a difference.
Oh, how I want to understand what happened? Or is it really just this WW addiction that has him completely in his grasp?
You don't have to prove to God that you are worthy of another chance. He gives us second chances because He loves us. Think about all the chances He gave the Nation of Israel in the Old Testament.
And it's quite possible that this time of personal growth in your faith is to prepare you for all other chances and blessings that He has for you. You are strong enough because you know where your strength comes from-not yourself, but God.
And yes, I think it is the WS addiction that makes them this nutty. Who in their right mind would opt for what your WH has chosen. As Bugs Bunny would say "What a maroon." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am so grateful for your kinds words. He did give Israel. I still don't know what they did with it however. One day I will have a better understanding of Torah.
It is possible, I just feel like after what Mimi said I had a great opportunity and blew it and G-d made not be so gracious and give me other opportunities. I know its NUTS.
So this weekend I did the Domestic Goddess work. I cleaned by bedroom, went shopping, cleaned my apt today, all [censored] and span, and baked today. I made homemade fudge for the first time in my life, chocolate chip cookies - Toll House Style and Molasses Cookies. I didn't put one thing to my mouth. Wow unbelievable because I love raw cookie dough.
I rearranged my apt a little and made a nice dinner for the boys.
And I got to watch my Redskins on tv tonight and they won.
Still my insides are turned upside because I MISS my husband. I have had a lot of time today to think about things and I am frustrated by what I am remembering.
For so long I really believed that I was this horrific wife who completely ignored her husband's EN. After reading this book and thinking about it with G-d, I really wasn't that awful a wife. And I am frustrated because for so long he didn't meet the most important EN I had, I begged him to, but he wouldn't. What do I do with the pain of wondering what life would be like if he came home. This change in him happened over many years. I tried to stop it, but he chose his path or got swallowed up.
How do you address the problems that truly existed in the marriage for me or should I just forget about them because I really love him and want him home.
If I am rambling please forgive me, I am just really having some soul searching time with G-d and voicing it on here.
SG.. it sounds like you're going through a pretty normal process. At least I hope it's normal because I've been having the same internal vacillations myself.
Open your eyes, ears, and heart and listen to what God is telling you. Remember.. we are to trust in Him and rely on him rather than our own understanding.. that's part of faith.
So what if things weren't perfect before.. you didn't make a promise to him to be perfect.. You can look at your life and see what you want to improve, but you can't make those choices for him.. he'll have to do his own growing ON HIS OWN..
If there are things you were not happy about in the M, it does no good to address them at this point if you're intent on saving the M.. that's POJA stuff for later.. radical honesty stuff.. things like that.
You've done well to this point.. continue listening to Mimi and keeping your faith in the right place.
And Mazel Tov to the Colts. That was a HUGE win for the skins last night and to think we are on tv again next week.
I really thought my eyes, ears and heart and were open as wide as they can be to listen to G-d, but maybe not. I might pray to G-d for help in that. Thanks for the reminders.
How do you open your eyes, ears and heart and listen to G-d?
I still haven't put the club down and just accepted totally that this was his plan all along. I think that somehow I could have fixed it before it got to this point. And when I truly realized that I didn't see the blessing of WH being on here, I think I panicked.
This is really hard....
You are right, my walk with G-d needs to become stronger, my faith deeper and my trust needs to become like it's a part of me as in breathing.
Thanks for the reminders. It's kinda nice to be walking through the same stuff and yet have completely different stories and situations. I have so MUCH to be grateful for that I need to stop getting on my pitty potty of what isn't.
Hmmmm. What a novel concept, put down the club, get off the potty and let G-d have my life.
Do you know who I would like to have the same type of walk as? Joe Gibbs. He is the most amazing human being I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
It's beyond his commitment to life and his family and yes the Redskins.
But it's his walk in life with G-d. He enduring grace of hope and belief in how to get through life. As I watched the game last night, I finally was able to have joy in my skins for the first time since before this whole experience began.
Joe Gibbs is a lighthouse to me on his faith and walk and I would love to have one ounce the strength and characteristics he possesses. I think you can understand that with Tony Dungy? Yes.
Yeah.. I like Tony a lot.. what he stands for, what he beleives in.
It's hard not to like a guy like that.
I suppose I kinda hope to be the kind of guy that's difficult not to like.. maybe that's part of what Plan A is about... becoming that guy.
As far as the listening goes.. it's just that, listening.. being open to receiving his messages.. whether it's something in one of my daily devotionals.. the mass readings.. or just a verse that pops out at me as I page flip my way through the Bible.. God speaks to us through His word.. God sends people to affect our lives in particular ways... so you've just got to be open to that I guess.
As for the pity party thing.. it's easy to cast yourself in the role of victim... but I passed a sign on a church the other day.. and it said: Write your troubles in sand, and your blessings in stone.
I think of that now whenever I'm getting down and depressed about things..
I just had a co worker come and talk to me about her M. She has been in an abusive relationship for 21 years and wants to leave her M.
I'm directing her to G-d, and she has a strong faith, but is so tired. She is even willing to leave her children to get away from the verbal abuse.
Think that was a message. It seems there are so many messages coming my way, but I don't know how to see what it is.
I'm rambling, but I remember you said that it's what's is said in my heart. What's there is that my H is just so sick and empty inside that he is running from me because I am his light to life. He's tired in many ways and he is destroying himself unconsciously because when he is hurting, that's his pattern.
I guess I feel like I need to keep being that light and find the strength through G-d, my walk with G-d and people on here. Is this silly or crazy.
I just know that when she was talking, I kept realizing that my work wasn't done, that yes I am exhausted and feel disheartened, but that I just need to keep having faith and trust G-d. I can't walk away from my M because G-d hates divorce and I am in the business of pleasing G-d, not displeasing him. Well I am working on that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hugs to Mimi,
One of the things that I am completely able to do is see the blessings of everyday life. When I can see my mountain sticking up in the sunshine of WA. When I get to play a game of dominoes with my DD and DS last night, knowing a few short months ago, she and I had a restraing order between us. What I discount which is probably the worst offense to G-d of all is that I am NOT a blessing. How interesting that my Hebrew name is Bracha - which means blessing.
I feel like I am on an interview for a job and that one wrong mistake or missing a blessing so to speak, ruins my chance with G-d. But what I have to somehow come to understand and accept is that my love for my H is really pure and unconditional and I am building on the qualities that G-d needs me to have in order for it to be safe for both my H and myself when that day happens that he comes home. Does that make sense? Am I wrong or off in my thinking? May another way to say it is, misopportunities at this point are just learning lessons for me.
Remember the wisdom of my rabbi, Christian or Jewish isn't what's important, it's the messages that I am getting that is.
Thank you for sharing it with me. As soon as I can, I will listen to it.
Talk about BLESSINGS, you are truly one of the biggest and bestest....
You are so sweet. It was a great game last night. Finally something for them to really celebrate and be proud of.
Don't tell anyone I asked, but do you think that I am doing the right thing and WW will figure it out? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just need a little support from my friends... I am getting bantered by everyone around me to give up and admit that maybe G-d wants something different. It looks so hopeless to them and they don't like him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I have prayed and prayed for more strength today. Not there yet, but I am also wondering what other qualities do I need to pray for to get through this.
Strength, Perserverance, Grace, Understanding, Acceptance Wisdom, Creativity, Sense of Humor, Willingness, Tenacity
Don't know if Hansel will figure it out, but YOU are definitely doing the right thing. Why? Because at the end of it all you will be the woman God wants you to be.
Remember some advice I told you that I got from a good and wise friend months ago about my own sitch -- in the end YOUR marriage is YOUR marriage, so despite what others tell you should do (move on, forget about him, etc.) you follow the path God has set for you. Everything else will come in its own time...
Besides, with Mimi to guide you how can you lose? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I just called WH and thanked him for the advice that he gave me last week regarding the kids. I told him how much it helped and I really appreciated his input. I told him how I was implementing what he offered. I told him what successes I was having which of course included me making breakfast and dinners and he said that he was glad. He had called our older son to go play soccer with him, but that he didn't return his call. I said, that we were all challenged in the phone business this week. He laughed.
Then I moved on to whether he watched his football (Raider) game yesterday. He said no, but that he watched my team's game last night. I talked to him about how they are on next week at the same time and how it has playoff implication. I also was sounding excited that they might possibly be coming to Seattle for a play off.
Then he started offering his opinion and knowledge on the Seahawks. And we talked a few more minutes on that.
I then asked him about work and how it was going. I asked specifically about inventory and he told me about what was going on. I got him to talk to me for a few minutes about the new way he has to do things. I told him that it sounds like he has things pretty well organized and he said will see, I said I have faith in you.
He said he needed to go and that he would talk to me soon. I said ok and I would look forward to it.
How was that? Anything I could have done differently.
I think I might show up at work tomorrow with some fresh baked goodies for all the hard work he is doing, what do you think?
It just amazes me how sweet and talkative he is. Does he not have a clue as to the heartache and devastation he is causing us. He's hurt because MS didn't call him back to go play soccer with him. Unbelievable.
I am blown away at how I just pump him up and he loves it, not once saying thank you for taking care of the kids all by yourself. I really must be doing a good Plan A, because he is just so happy and talkative and open with everything I ask. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It hurts so deeply though. It really does.
What goes on in that brain, is there someone WW story on here that I can go read and really try to understand or is it just something that is better left to G-d.
I'm writing because it's late and I went shopping to get tins for bringing WH cookies and fudge tomorrow.
I'm frustrated because my AA sponsor just doesn't understand my desire to stand for my M. Doesn't believe it's G-ds will and believes that I am addicted to my H, because I haven't moved on.
I just wanted to come here where I know people understand and if anyone reads this who is lonely tonight. I am so sorry for your pain and will be praying for your recovery as well.
I'm frustrated because my AA sponsor just doesn't understand my desire to stand for my M. Doesn't believe it's G-ds will and believes that I am addicted to my H, because I haven't moved on.
SG, there will always be "naysayers" who won't understand what you're doing. Don't let them sway you. Your sponsor is wrong. If it becomes an issue that hinders you from moving on in your personal recovery, perhaps a new sponsor might be in order? If not, then just listen and smile and know that you are on the right path.
I tend to agree about getting a new sponsor if I need to. I continue to work my program and practice the AA principles and don't ever want to go back to that dry drunk place, but people just don't understand at all.
Hey Mimi, I really missed you yesterday, what were you up to. Did you get to read PM's story. What a blessing! I didn't miss that one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
For the first time in a LONG time, I slept horribly. There is so much on my heart and confusion. I had written my newer rabbi, who is no longer with us and told her I was feeling a pull towards Christianity because I felt so much support for standing for my M in that community versus the Jewish community.
She was a little shocked to say the least and wants to talk to me about this. She knows the personal struggles I have gone through for many years and just wants to make sure I don't do anything rash or for the wrong reasons.
You are so right the "naysayers" just look at me as if I am one stupid person and why would I do it when there is NO HOPE. I might add that most of them are divorced and don't understand how I could EVER forgive my husband.
What they don't understand is that it wasn't my job to forgive him, it's my job to follow in G-ds path and do as he directs me which is learn to love him. PM, what you wrote about the respect thing.... Can you write more about that.
I think that I didn't respect my husband enough because I allowed him to push me away. I know I love him, but what your H said about that, makes me really stop and think.
Do you think I am addicted to my H or how would I look at that to see.
I just believe that I vowed to G-d and take my vows seriously and this is in sickness and health. If he was out using or drinking I wouldn't divorce him, I would be doing the same thing.
I don't think you are addicted to your H. You are committed to your covenant and you are following God's will-as it is written in His word. He will honor your faithfulness, even if your WH doesn't.
There are lots of examples of just one or two people following God's will, and the others missing the point. When the nation of Israel came to the promised land and sent 10 spies into Jericho, only two-Joshua and Caleb-came back saying that with the Lord's help, they could take the land. Because of the people's doubt, they wandered 40 years until all of those who had doubted had died-except for Caleb and Joshua. Their faithfulness was rewarded and they were allowed to enter the Promised Land. Joshua became the leader of Israel during that time (Joshua and the battle of Jericho-now I'll have that song in my head all day!).
I don't think your sponsor understands "moving on" the way that it is happening in your life. You are moving on in your faith and trust. You are moving on in recognizing things in your life that were barriers to your faith and your relationship with your H. You are moving on in becoming a woman of God's own heart and a mother whose faith is a refuge for her children.
Sometimes I think you just have to tell people that they don't have to understand what you are doing, but you would appreciate their support and prayers as you walk this journey.
How's the day going? Our kids are getting anxious and out of sorts. Can't wait for all those parties tomorrow.
My own children are blowing it again.
Yes, I am really looking forward to meeting with you on Friday. I forgot to reply to the email. I can drive whereever is easier for you.
Thanks I really appreciate you and the others on here. I somehow don't feel as lonely.
I have told people that they don't understand and that I just need their support and prayers. That's why I have LOST many people in my life who I thought were friends, but truly aren't. That's the sadness too. Coming to grips with things that I believed before this. My H at one time wanted me to give up my friends. I did for a long time and it didn't make him happy. So deep down knowing it didn't help, I reconnected with my girlfriends because I missed them.
Did you read that update from PM on what her H said. What an inspiration and awesome thing to have happen.
One other thing I am noticing, is more and more I like just staying home and in many respects just being with G-d alone. My friends believe I am isolating and I really am not. I prefer to be there with my boys. I am forever changed in so many ways and being with G-d is my most joyous time of the day. Is that ok or normal?
I tend to agree about getting a new sponsor if I need to. I continue to work my program and practice the AA principles and don't ever want to go back to that dry drunk place, but people just don't understand at all.
Do what you need to do to get you where you need to be.
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There is so much on my heart and confusion. I had written my newer rabbi, who is no longer with us and told her I was feeling a pull towards Christianity because I felt so much support for standing for my M in that community versus the Jewish community.
Wow, SG. That's pretty heavy. I can only suggest that you prayerfully search your heart and His word about what's right for you. Seek Him earnestly and tell Him you want to KNOW him personally.
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What they don't understand is that it wasn't my job to forgive him, it's my job to follow in G-ds path and do as he directs me which is learn to love him. PM, what you wrote about the respect thing.... Can you write more about that.
I failed miserably in the respect department for many years concerning my husband. I dissed him, I belittled him, I did what "I" wanted. I can remember saying to my girlfriends, "What's he gonna do? Divorce me? Ha, ha, ha." I chose the children over him. I allowed the children to come between us. I called him "loser" (that one hurts me the most). I did not know the damage I was causing in my marriage. I wasn't serious about my relationship with God and I sure wasn't serious about my relationship with my husband. I took both for granted.
I didn't start learning about respecting my husband in a Godly way until it was almost too late. Now I can see where my relationship with my husband reflects on my relationship with God. I am no Bible scholar (I’m just learning too even though I was raised a preacher’s kid!) but I’ll try and find some scriptures for you that may explain where I’m coming from. Maybe someone else can express this better than me?
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I think that I didn't respect my husband enough because I allowed him to push me away.
Yes I think it is normal. When you are in a deep and growing personal relationship with someone, of course you want to spend time with them. That's what you are doing with God. Plus, spending time with Him is refreshing and life-giving.
Spending time with your kids and at home is creating a place of calm for them. They have had a lot of change too so creating a refuge for them is important.
When they get upset with you-"surly" as my oldest DD describes her teen-age brothers at these times-it's because they feel safe enough to express their feelings to you. That doesn't make it right, and you can point that out to them. Just keep that in mind-it isn't personal against you. It's that they feel safe "letting off steam" so-to-speak.
Also, it's so dark, cold and wet during the winter here, lots of folks "hibernate" more.
The Christian thoughts are a HUGE thing to me, especially if you knew how hard I have worked to have a Jewish life. But I am really lost in how my religion doesn't support marital vows, or at the very least the reform movement.
I am not just walking into this, but looking at what is in my heart and what ultimately G-d wants for me. I think that where this is coming from is a place of like a blank portrait that G-d is creating in his will and image. I am looking to do G-ds will and become who he wants for me. I am opening my heart to what that is and not just leaving doors closed that were once closed. Does that make sense?
My husband is someone who played games with me throughout our life. He would shut down or pick on me continously until I gave up. I would keep digging or walk away and ultimately shut down myself, instead of looking to G-d for how to work through things.
I won't do that anymore. I keep coming back to all the different things I tried in my M to please my H. At one point I worked on becoming a completely submissive wife and respect my H totally. I let him make all the decisions, deferred to him for guidance in everything. I worked on this for years, but it didn't make him happy. Unfortunately I gave up trying because my perception was he didn't step up and be the head of the house and things were falling apart.
I can make all the excuses in the world why I did what I did, but the complete bottom line is G-d was not at the center. And that is what is so different. G-d is my center, my light to where I am supposed to walk. When I am weak and fearful I somehow have to shake this feeling off and train my mind like Mimi says. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Does that clear it up? Are you seeing something that I can work through?
They do feel safest with me because they KNOW I won't LEAVE them. I am tempted to drop them off in DELIVERANCE, but don't think I could really pull this off.
How can I explain it to others so they won't feel like I am isolating and feeling sorry for myself.
I don't believe I am, I am just different and enjoy the time I have with G-d and by myself. There is so much to learn and I feel like I don't have enough time.
So what kind of food do you like? Do you like sushi? Or what was that restaurant you were talking about?
I can give a testimony about how a TRAGEDY such as my H's affair has changed my life for the GOOD.
Every day I have to work on my regret over having wasted so many years in the WRONG ORGANIZATIONS with the WRONG FRIENDS with the WRONG PRIORITIES. I'm over 50 now and feel like I wasted so much time.
My H and I no longer go to the same church, no longer have the same friends. There's family members that I spend time with sparingly because they weren't good for me.
We have started our lives all over again.
We will move to a new city ASAP.
This has been a blessing.
These were changes that were necessary that I should have done YEARS ago.
So much wasted time.
This CAN change your life for the BETTER...
KEEP MOVING FORWARD.
Be open to where GOD is leading you.
Add to your prayers: "Where you lead, Lord, I will follow...
Remember: "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want...."
And you are right, they are changes that I am completely willing to make.
A couple of months after D-Day, I told H how I would quit my job and move away if he asked, even though he KNOWS how much I love my job. He was shocked to say the list. He asked me about it and I told him that HE was more IMPORTANT than any job. I pray that G-d will give me another chance to completely start over and create a completely new life with my husband.
I am really working hard at moving forward. I think knowing that I have two weeks off is a little daunting. During the summer I had to pack for moving and could lay outside. I am going to have to see what I can do to occupy my time. Ah, maybe play games with my youngest son.
I really believe I am OPEN to where G-d is leading me. I just need to keep praying for those qualities he desires me to have. How can I pray for the unknown qualities?
Yes, he is definetly making me lay down in green pastures by still waters. He is definetly restoring my soul. How fitting this Psalm is to my life today.
Ok, I am really having a fun day at work today. One of our paraeducators was just hear asking me how I am doing. I don't know where this came from, but I thought some of us might get a chuckle out of this.
"I don't know why G-d gave my WH free will, he doesn't know what to do with it"
Anything to make me laugh right now. Through this, I lost my sense of humor. I am praying for it to come back.
It'll come back.. start watching the standup comics on Comedy Central and you'll be just fine <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Takes time.. don't rush yourself or feel like you have to be in a hurry to get to a particular place. Work steadily towards your goals for yourself.. even if it's recovering your laugh. One day, you'll find yourself laughing.. and it'll hit you that it's genuine and you'll feel a little lighter.
That very thing happened to me standing in a COLD line for a hayride at the end of October with DD in the middle of a Girl Scout camp.. I've been laughing again ever since.
You really are an amazing person with such faith and strength. One day, G-d willing your wife will understand what she has in you.
My SIL is an administrative assistant for Girl Scouts in CA. I never did it with my daughter. I did the temple and religous involvement along with soccer for her.
NO WAY could I ever do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Besides the good Lord blessed me with a win and I was truly grateful for that.
Ok the real reason, we still play you in two weeks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Restraint - is definetly a quality I have at times, something very new for me I might add. I love to see peoples faces when I tell them how I walked up to OW and graciously and warmly introduced myself to her.
I hope G-d was proud of me for that and it met with his approval.
I am putting the staff news together and was looking for new material on inspirational quotes.
I came upon this one -
"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." - Mark 11:22-24
Skins, I am a newer member, but I saw since you were spiritual I would like to let you know what has worked for me. I am a BS, too. It seems the closer I get to God the deeper I pray and the more specific my prayers are. So I don't just pray for my WH in general. One of them goes - I pray that H will be convicted in his heart to want to spend time with me and our son, I ask you Lord that he see the OW for who she really is and that your vengeance will cause strife between them. Please take away any attraction that my WH has for OW. I ask that you give us both insight into what we need to do to be better people and better spouses. Let H feel the Holy spirit working within him to change his attitude and give me your Grace to endure. Help his thoughts to align with his actions and let them be based on your Word. Lord, thank you for showing me your mercy and putting friends and family in my path to ease the pain. Amen. I also print out scripture verses for strength and FAITH that my M will work out. I read them EVERY night. Good luck! FTBM
Thank you for your thoughtful words and prayers. I'm sorry you are here and will make a point to look at your link/post.
I really appreciate the prayer you gave me. I am going to write it in my prayer book that I am developing as my first aid book. Please feel free to send me more as you walk this journey. I can really use all the help I can get.
I really am working towards a FAITH that is unshakable and learning more and more daily about my walk with G-d. In my strong moments I am excited for the opportunity, but then there are days that I am just paralyzed with fear.
G-d has become the most important part of my life, something that I am very grateful for, but I still feel like I can become closer and look for ways to do that. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Looks like the Colts play the Texans this weekend. Not sure it matters though, we've locked in a #2 seed in the AFC, and I don't think there's any way we can catch the Pats as they have the tiebreakers even if they lose out.
Looks like AFCCG in Foxborough this year.. hopefully Vinateri will kick the game winner again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Glad to see you shoring up your walk with God. Keep Him close to your heart and you won't go wrong. Embrace this time in your life and count among your blessings a close, renewed relationship with the One who will never fail you. He who always loves you regardless of what you do, what you call your faith, or the circumstances of your life. He loves your WH as well.. and like a good shepherd goes after his lost sheep.
May G-d bless you and keep you safe and warm each and every night.
Ok, my mind is wandering and going nuts tonight. I went online to check our savings account balance and WH withdrew 100.00. Of course I really have NO idea what is REALLY happening, but here's what I have come up with.
He is taking money out to buy her a Christmas gift. And that hurts because for the last few years we have been so broke we haven't bought each other anything. Actually for our anniversary last year I saved up to buy a applique quilt picture that was of his favorite item, Eagles. Now I know why he didn't really care about it. I put so much time late at night and when he wasn't home to draw, cut and quilt. Ok, stop Queenie.. Shake your head...
Then once I was there thinking how happy he would be out shopping for the new woman he loves, he'll bring it home and then on Christmas she will open it up and you get the picture. I just want to take a bat to my brain right now. It's helping to write this down because I can see how ridiculous it is, I don't know what's going on, but it hurts nonetheless. And there is the emptiness inside of me missing my H.
Which brings me to something. I was at Sam's Club tonight and I bought a Lynryd Skynryd Collection CD for H. Should I give it to him as part of Plan A? In the past, whenever I saw something that he would like, I usually bought it for him. I wasn't going to wrap it, just tell him that I saw this and knew he would enjoy it.
My mind is also reeling because he hasn't looked at the last ecard that I sent him. I'm really trying to not go there and let my mind bring me down. But it's so much easier giving that than taking my words of wisdom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I can't help but think about all that transpired and there is no other explanation than he is an alien who is completely gone. I miss my H and I hope G-ds timing for him to come home is soon.
Sorry to ramble, I have a long day tomorrow and need to sleep tonight. Better than I did last night.
Give your expectations to God.. expect God to go to work, pray and give thanks. Give your anxiety to Him.
I too struggled for a few hours (that's all I allowed myself to dwell on it) about my wife getting presents for Wonderboy and his family.. but you know what? It's not a big deal.. I went and got her a gift anyhow, something I know she'll like, and isn't 'improper'.. The gifts aren't what the season is about anyway.
Chin up.. CHEST OUT.. be the wonderful royal child of God you are.
When did you start Plan A? How well have you done with it?
And can you give a brief rundown of you sitch?
Please don't tell me to go look it up for myself, because I forgot to bring my glasses...and your thread is too long. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
ok, look here is what you do. QUIT thinking bad thoughts. Fact#1: You don't know for sure what the $100 is for, correct?
Read Philippian 4:6-8. It says "have no anxiety but with thanksgiving make your requests known to God, etc"...and it tells you what kinds of things to think on..."whatever is noble, pure, just, gracious, whatever is praiseworthy, etc." You are waging a war in your mind...the Mind is the Battlefield and either Satan or growing up in a negative household will keep you thinking on sad, negative or anxious things. There is a season for it, yes. Don't deny yourself those tears and get it all out. But just don't dwell in that place for too long. It will come and go, which is natural.
Grab a highlighter, read through your bible and mark the things that will help you. Dog ear the pages and then carry it with you. Refer to them often and once you learn them, when you feel an "attack" of the blahs, you can quote scripture either in your head or outloud. THIS is the way to win over your emotions. Trust me it works. I am living proof!
Last night my WH and I got in an argument over the phone and I was sitting there thinking, why the heck would I want to reconcile with this man. Ugh! I was so angry! It took me a good hour of ignoring the feeling and going back and forth in my head, being mad and then wondering if I should be with him...but then I finally decided to pray for that part of him that is so disagreeable. And of course my reaction wasn't the best either.
Last night I said, Lord please take away any unbelief in H's heart. Help him to see that my "yes means yes and my no means no". Please don't let him be swayed by anyone else's words. Let him feel remorse for being so impatient and bring awareness to the logic of the truth I spoke last night. And help my reactions to be soft and keep my words from being spoken before I think clearly on what I want to say" (He called me a liar last night about something ridiculous, and then kept saying I don't believe you, I think you are lying, on and on) I argued back when I should have said something on the lines of, as long as you keep saying that and believing the lie in your head, I'm not going to talk to you, goodbye.
I forget that I don't live in the fog and still have social manners or caring manners.
I know you are experiencing the same hurtful cruel behavior if not worse because she is using your children. At least my kids are with me and protected from him. He hasn't emailed my YS since 12-6 because he didn't get a response back to that email.
And he made a sarcastic response to me on Monday about MS not calling him back when he left a message to invite him to play for soccer. I didn't really respond accept to say you know how kids are.
I would HOPE and PRAY, that if he invited sons to soccer game then he would have the DECENCY to not bring HER. If he did, I can only imagine how angry my kids would get not to mention how more damage it would do to their relationship. But WH is so in control and only cares about HIS NEEDS. Scary, truly scary.
I'm tired of feeling feelings. However, I keep praying and asking G-d to reveal the lessons that I need to learn or give me wisdom on what to pray for to get through this. I still don't know if I am praying for the right qualities to survive.
I'm glad vacation starts tomorrow. I can find some down time and just be with G-d. James, do you get regular signs of G-ds will to stand for your marriage, or you just read and read the bible?
G-d has been very quiet with me for many days. Please don't misunderstand, he is so generous with the many blessings of life, but in terms of my M or my H, there hasn't been anything and I'm wondering if that's a sign from G-d to give up? What do you think or when you get to this place what do you do?
Remember, this FAITH and TRUST in G-d is so new to me. Especially when the stakes are as high as they are. My life, my family and the soul of my H.
I should probably give you a better idea of his work schedule so you understand what might be a little road block to work around.
I live about 30 minutes away from his job, give or take traffic. He starts work at 5:30 am and I start work at 7:30. I have to make sure that my kids are up and getting ready for school. If I hadn't fried my cell phone I could have called, but we don't need to go there.
Honestly, when I write this out, my fear just stopped me. I'm glad you asked that question.
Now that I am off for vacation I was thinking about stopping by tomorrow at work after IC and bringing him and the rest of his workers fresh cookies. I might get some alone time with him, but no guarantee. So, let's take a vote, go for the early morning or later afternoon when I can impress the others around him as well.
I will read it later tonight while I am up baking fresh cookies for him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
HEAD UP, CHEST OUT.
I actually fit into a size 14-16 shirt. I started at 5X. Yeah.....And I have a new uplifting bra that really helps with CHEST OUT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ok, for the first time in a long time I am a LITTLE MAD.
WH really only talks to me when he wants something. Like the camera. He wants it for this weekend, and wants me to drop it off tomorrow at our friends house. He asked me if I could do it tonight. I said no.
I asked him if I could get it back by the 26th because the boys have a lacrosse camp. He said he thinks so. That isn't good enough for me.
This camera is really something that is pissing me off. He said I heard you were getting two cameras. I told him that I actually got a small one and that no, I wasn't getting another one because we were doing quite well at sharing "our camera". He didn't respond.
Before all this I told him the Mercedes was broken and asked him if he could come over and look at it. He asked what was wrong, I said I didn't know and he never responded.
As for the camera I told him we could negotiate between us for a win win and that I had a great idea to discuss with him for his input. But he was gone by the time I got it out and it's sitting there waiting for him when he comes back on.
He is up to something. I can just feel it.
So HELP.... Do I keep with the Plan of bringing him cookies tomorrow and bring the camera with me???
As a course of learning, where did I do good and what did I blow?
We are SO on the same page about this. I went to a drug and alcohol prevention community meeting.
On the way over I started thinking about what you would say to me and I had already decided that I would bring it to him tomorrow along with the Cookies, looking my absolutely best at 7:00 am.
You are right the camera is tainted, but more importantly, I love him more than an object. This camera clearly means something bigger to him and I am not going to let THIS be the reason that stops me from working my Plan.
You haven't responded to the CD, but I need to give it to him for me. That's who I am. I saw the CD's and the truth is I immediately thought of him and wanted him to have them. I would have bought them if we were together and had the money.
Yeah, this man who doesn't even seem to ask me how the kids are doing actually. My MS is sick with strep throat and in pain.
I really am working hard to created a great Plan A. The lawyer and I are meeting soon. I saw his wife tonight, she is a good friend of mine. He has been very busy with tough divorce cases and that's why we haven't before this.
I am tired tonight, but I want to write something that I received at the information night about Cocaine Addiction and its pattern of destruction. Did I ever mention that my H's drug of choice was Coke? Interestingly, I don't really believe he is using, but is it odd or is it G-d that this relationship addiction would have the same characteristics.
I'll check my email before I leave tomorrow in case you have any last minute instructions. I know what my Plan is, to reach my H somehow and let him know what life can be like if he came home. Sweet, respectful, giving and loving. All the things that I really do feel in my heart for my H, but then there's Hansel and he just needs to keep seeing those crumbs until Plan B day.
Is there anything I am missing? Oh yes, CHEST OUT AND HEAD UP, because Mrs. R is going to see her H tomorrow and she is excited to.
Please pray for me to gather the strength I did when I met him and OW. That is who I want to be with him tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I went and stayed for about 20 or so minutes. He was definetly nervous at times. I let him talk as much as I could asking questions that would give me answers. I can't remember if he got up from his desk or not when I got there.
He was surprised to see me. Thanked me for bringing him the camera. We talked about how I could get it back. I didn't make it into a big deal at all. It just so amazes me the difference of him when he is around her versus just on his own. He is jumpy though. I really don't think he is using, but definetly under the influence.
I noticed something interesting though. I think I mentioned this last time. He still has a family picture of all of us on his desk. That darn balloon from his birthday, but something new was added to his desk. I made his a ceramic eagle or rather painted it for him years ago. I never noticed it on the desk before and there it sat.
I asked him about work and he talked to me about some problems they were having. I asked him about something that he mentioned from Monday, so he knows that I was listening to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I stood next to him a few times, making sure to touch him lovingly, and then he showed me this paper that he needed to get the guys to sign. He is having trouble with someone there. Oh my gosh, it had so many typos, I offered to retype it if he liked, but he said oh no, if Jack wrote it, it stays that way. It's really quite an embaraasing letter of mistakes.
I wore a brand new shirt that shows off my skin tone and weight loss really well. No comment of course. I thought about putting on make up, then I realizes OW wears dark eye liner and I know he doesn't like make up. So, I had the heat turned on in my car, got my cheeks rosey red and just put on lipstick and mascara. Plus the color from the tanning booth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I could tell when I overstayed my time because he started to go back to work. Right before I left, I showed him all the goodies I made. I wanted him to know that it was homemade fudge, because he would never dream I would do something like that.
I asked him if he could come over this weekend and look at the car, he said it was a possibility.
I think all in all it went good. There is so much to remember along with just being your self, but I hope that G-d was pleased.
What do you think? Where did I miss something or go wrong?
I should just mention that really the camera is no big deal to me anymore. However, it's something we have in common and are sharing. I think he needs to see how easy going I can be on some things.
I will say at one point he made a commented about the cards for the camera and flippitantly said I kept them all. That was incorrect as I stood up for myself and jokingly said well, I remember it a little differently. This wasn't about the card, as much as saying that I am not a total doormat, but lovingly and jokingly that I care about myself.
Hey, skinsgal! Well since you wouldn't give me the brief lowdown, I had to read ALOT of your sitch. Probably not enough, but sure wanted to get a handle of where you are and where you were.
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This wasn't about the card, as much as saying that I am not a total doormat, but lovingly and jokingly that I care about myself.
On of the things I had to learn was how to lovingly and jokingly get my point accross to my husband. It is hard for me to do when I am anxious or upset, though, as I am a born scrapper (trying hard to change).
My husband even showed me how the best way to approach him is when the subject matter might be a bit emotional...
And his way was lovingly and jokingly.
So guys must be affected in a much more postive way when we communicate in this manner.
I think you did great, too!
As for the CD's, I say yes to them. You are in Plan A, and the CD's are nothing like a trip for two to the "Heart Shaped Jucuzzi Love Shack Motel" would be as far as love busters for the active WS.
There was a longtime poster on here that Mimi probably remembers her name, that got back with her EX WH when his OW unexpectedly died. She found out after they got back together that he had kept every single card, letter, etc that she had given him during her Plan A...even though he was living with OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I apologize as I must have missed your request for a short version of my sitch. Thank you for taking time to read about me. What do you think of where I was and where I am? Do you see any hope? My phone counseling session didn't go as well as I hoped. Although she really thinks that getting into Plan B is a really good idea. I don't think she really understands the alien piece and that if somehow he could just wake up we would have a chance.
I still have the CD's, so I think I will bring it by one day next week while I am still on vacation. With Christmas Eve and Christmas coming up, I am not going to have a good chance of being in contact with him. Any ideas on how I can keep my presence? I was thinking about going to watch him play soccer on Saturday, but if she is there I am not sure what to do? Should I get out and watch whether or not she is there, so he KNOWS I am there?
Hey Mimi,
I miss you girl. The courage I have is because I prayed for it BEFORE I went up and talked to him. I asked G-d to give me the qualities I need to do his work when I was with my husband. G-d, I miss this man so much. I don't have enough time with him and I just want that more than anything is him with me. Do you really think G-d can bless me with this. FAITH and TRUST.
Do you think it impacted him at all? I have to keep reminding myself this isn't about HIM, but me being the best I can be for me.
I just have to keep waiting on the Lord. I'm sorry for rambling. It's just so hard to love my H so deeply and know that he isn't there right now.
For those of you who are walking a Christian life?
Can I ask you a question. This has been weighing on my heart and after reading some of MM's post and listening to all of you talk about the Christian walk. I guess I am scared that because I am Jewish and don't believe in Jesus as the son of G-d, I am not worthy of having my marriage restored.
How do you feel about what I am thinking or feeling?
you're playing those stinkin thinkin tapes... i have a book recommendation...how to stop worrying and start living by dale carnegie...shake those negatve thoughts out of your head, queenie
You know, SG, I don't think it matters if you're Christian, Jew, Muslim, or whatever. God loves us all the same, no matter what our beliefs or life situations are.
Each of us is worthy of having our marriages restored if that is where we are. If you are truly sincere in your efforts to win your H back, you deserve for that to happen. The difficult part is that things don't always work out the way we'd like them to.
The Christian walk is a personal thing between you and God. God makes each of us responsible for our relationship with him and how we decide to have him in our lives. If you're interested in learning more about Christianity and what place you may want it to have in your life, I know there are plenty of people on this site who can help.
I guess I am scared that because I am Jewish and don't believe in Jesus as the son of G-d, I am not worthy of having my marriage restored.
SG, God hates divorce. Period. That's not exclusive to Christians, Jews, atheist, or whatever. Stop feeding those kinds of thoughts!
Stepping Off A Limb I am going to step off on a limb here. I really don't want this to turn into a religious debate, I just want to share something very personal with SG.
The way I see it (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that practicing Jews try really really hard to follow the law of the Old Testament (which is what they've done for 1000s of years).
The thing about Jesus (and He is prophesied about in the Old Testament if you'd like me to give you a reference) is that because He came to earth and sacrificed his life... taking on all the sin and ugliness in his death... we who have confessed that He is Lord... are no longer under the old law but are covered by grace. We are not saved by our "works" but by our belief in Him.
I can not imagine trying to live my life everyday trying to make sure that I followed all of the laws in the OT. I couldn't do it. I KNOW I couldn't. I would fail miserably. In fact, the CHRISTIAN church I grew up in focused solely on what we COULDN'T do as opposed to the JOY that comes from serving the Lord. That's rough on a child.
If you want to ignore this little side comment, I understand. I am not trying to persuade you to do anything. I just wanted to share personally with you about where I am coming from as a Christian.
The only thing that is true is that you can actually create what you don't want dwelling on it. Who is it around here who has that sig line: Worrying is like praying for what you don't want? So true.
You wrote this on Jamesus thread, and I want to post it here, because it brought back really painful memories for me, from a time when I felt the same way -
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I could use a little support on this today. I have this nagging feeling inside of me that if WH chose to not come home that I am losing the best life I could ever have. Or I am losing the love of my life and that hurts so deeply.
I did lose the love of my life, and let me tell you that now I am married to the 3rd real love of my life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Love is something that you give, you never, ever lose it. It goes with you where ever you go, and you lavish it onto whom ever you want.
Your WH is not providing any love to you, and yet you are absolutely over flowing in it? Why do you think that is? Because it is coming from you?
He still has love for you, I am not saying he doesn't. But right now his love is buried under a bunch of fog. And still you are filled with love. Strange how that could be, when he isn't giving any of it to you. Hmmm.
If Mimi's guiding you, your Plan A is being done well.
Truly. This is something that I don't take likely, at all. My whole child life my parents were assimilated and we didn't celebrate Jewish holidays or even discuss what it was to be a Jew. Everything I learned was after my H and I joined our first temple and I got involved. My Judaism is the most important thing I have because I know that I can go to Israel and belong, truly belong.
PM - It's funny how the most important topics in life are the ones that people don't like to discuss. I find and maybe I am the crazy one - that if you are secure in your thoughts then its ok to talk to someone else about it. Now, secure is something that I am working on or rather my path in life. So, I welcome dialog and discussion. I used to be threatened by entertaining this, but it just seems ok to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Part of the reform movement is fitting those laws into your life that you want to and leaving the rest. Where in theory it's a great idea it also leaves for a decline in morals and values. Hence the reason that most of my "friends" don't support my walk in standing for my marriage. They truly think I am an idiot and they don't understand. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
If I am completely honest with myself, I have never really studied Torah, and so I don't know where it falls into my life. Over this break I hope to begin to establish a way to have it make sense to me. One suggestion is to go to a more conservative or Chassidic temple, where spirituality is most important. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I am looking for my connection to G-d. I want to please him and walk in his will, truly he is the most important relationship I have created. When people talk about G-ds word, I have no context of what that means as a Jew. For instance, is G-d's word just the 5 Books of Moses or are the psalms and proverbs included as G-ds word. See what I mean? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
However, my IC thinks I am back to the bargaining stage. If I do this, will you let him come home. If I convert, will you let him come home. I think there is some truth to that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
She also has told me to work on my self-esteem. It frustrates her when I call myself ugly, etc.
So part of building myself up is to have fun in my life. And tonight I am hitting the bar for ladies night out with the ladies from school. Which will keep me laughing and having some fun. I'm going to get really dressed up and just enjoy the night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made a flippant comment about going out with someone so I would know what a different relationship could be like. My counselor said it was a great idea. Only because I have not ever had another relationship with any other man in my life. However, I am MARRIED and deeply in love with my H.
Josie and Mimi,
I am becoming more "awake" to what you are saying. I agree my negativity is wearing me down and creating what I don't want. Oddly, this is just completely the opposite of who I was before this. I was miss positive and just took things as they came. I will start praying for guidance on this and get the book. They didn't have it at the used book store. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Josie, I never thought of love that way. You are so right, I absolutely and giving him the purest of love that I have and I enjoy it.
Yes, Mimi is guiding me and I totally NEED and APPRECIATE it, I am learning as much as I can so that I can pass it on to someone else.
Mimi, chime in here if I am wrong. But Plan A is to continue for a little longer and as soon as my LSA is ready to be completed I go dark, EXTREMELY DARK. Would you agree Mimi? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I have to tell you my IC was appalled that I brought him cookies and fudge. She goes, aren't you rewarding his behavior. I just smiled and said, there's a plan involved and I am working it. : <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
He called me tonight to find out if it was snowing. I was exercising at the time and he left a message.
So, being his WIFE, I called him back and told him how sweet he was to think of me. He resisted, but it went in. I asked him if it was still snowing. He loves the snow and he knows I love the snow. It stopped snowing there, but it is getting colder and I said, hopefully it will start snowing again. He agreed.
He tried to say goodbye, but I kept him on a few minutes longer. And then he said Hey - thank you for the fudge and cookies. He said it was really good. I said I did good on my first try - he said very good and then said he left the cookies out for the boys and hid the fudge for himself.
DING DING DING.....
I told him that I looked forward to talking to him soon and he responded in a positive way, unconsciously, but I don't remember the exact words.
I know he is at home, and if G-d is really gracious tonight, OW is at home with him and now knows I came by work and brought him fudge or at the very least knows I called and was talking to him. Hopefully she won't mind too much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
He CALLED ME.... I know it doesn't seem like a huge deal, but IT IS TO ME. He thought of me.
So, what can I do tomorrow before the weekend, bring the CD or just call him to wish him a nice weekend. I was also thinking of slipping up to his soccer game on Saturday. Should it matter if she is there or not?
Hey Mimi, I am thinking about the Queenie name, in light of what I am working through on my attitude, self-esteem, etc, I think using my Hebrew name Bracha (blessing) would be more appropriate for me right now. I am working through accepting that I am one of G-ds blessings. How interesting that would be my name.
He's online and I asked him if it's snowing. He told me he would go check. I said thank you. LOL
We are having quite a nice conversation. I getting in every suggestion I possibly can. One that appreciates, loves and shows respect. I am really getting some blessings tonight with time with him.
I did as you suggested. Reminded him of the fun we had in the past. It was going to the movies last year on Christmas.
He asked me what we were going to see, I said I didn't know but the boys were trying to get me to see two movies and it wasn't working. He wrote - LOL.
I told him I loved his laugh and I miss having home all the time to hear his laugh.
I said I needed to get going and that I loved him very much. I signed off.
I didn't want to wait for a response. Just leave it there with him.
I made a flippant comment about going out with someone so I would know what a different relationship could be like. My counselor said it was a great idea.
Are you SERIOUS? What kind of COUNSELOR is this? Do you pay this person money to tell you this CRAP?
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Only because I have not ever had another relationship with any other man in my life.
That is not a reason to go out with another man at this point and be as adulterous as your HUSBAND. How could this contribute to your self-esteem?
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But Plan A is to continue for a little longer and as soon as my LSA is ready to be completed I go dark, EXTREMELY DARK. Would you agree Mimi?
You've got some steps to take before PLAN B, IMO. That's what I was helping you with tonight. He's gotta know that you want the marriage, want to reconcile with him because you LOVE him, he's got to FEEL that love FROM you although he may not FEEL the love that he has for you. Make sense? What will your reconciliation be like? Where will you live, etc.?
So I think he's gotta get comfortable talking to you. I suspected that would happen..that he would eventually begin calling you..that's what my H did....after he left..he started the phone calls...he's missing you, Bracha..YOU ARE HIS HISTORY. She is a PRESENT. HE HAS TO KNOW THAT THERE CAN be a FURTURE with YOU. He only has the PRESENT with her..they are living day to day...he's trying to keep that HIGH going off of her..
Next step is for you two to begin meeting...
Is it too cold to practice FRISBEE?
How about him going with you on WALKS? He'll be helping you out with your WORKOUT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
You will be NEGOTIATING his RETURN...an important aspect of PLAN A which needs to be implemented.
Yes, oh what a blessed day indeed. I can't believe he called me to tell me about the snow. And he really liked the fudge.
So, suggestions for tomorrow? Wait, I'll think about it and pray and wait for the lord to answer. Actually JT and I are meeting up north and going shopping. I am really looking forward to meeting her.
I just got home from closing the dueling piano bar place. For the first time I had a really good time. I sang and danced and in my new body and got up on stage.
This was a good day for me. I went and saw hubby early, had a MC counseling session, an IC counseling session, shopped (a little frivously <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), went exercising, went tanning, got a call from my hubby, called him back and talked to him, and then spent almost a full hour online with him, laughing and talking, told him I loved him, and then went out.
I have a lot to thank G-d for tonight and be grateful. Wow, I am in awe of G-d for the day he gave me. And thank you Mimi. You are such a blessing in my life, please know how much I appreciate the time you are giving me.
You "IYHO" is what I an following. You are the captain and I am learning everything I can, so keep me on the path. I'm not sure what I am doing, but all of what you are saying makes sense. I just am not sure HOW to accomplish it or set it up. Yes, I can call him and ask him if he could meet me one day and throw the frisbee around, or maybe when he comes over I could ask him to walk down to the school and we could go throw there? Let me pray for possibilities and ask G-d to let it happen.
I am not sure I understand about the NEGOTIATING HIS RETURN. Can you help me understand it better, please. Also how is it different than what I have been doing for a few weeks now? Can you also help me understand better how he's gotta know I want the marriage. How could he NOT know after all this time I am still doing what I am doing. Does my question make sense or am I missing something here?
BTW - on the dating issue I am NOT listening to the counselor. I am deeply committed to standing for my marriage. She really believes that I am TOO hard on myself and doesn't understand that what my WH is doing is an addiction. She only sees how hurt I am. Her heart is in the right place, but I am also up front with her that I wasn't going to take her up on that idea.
The tanning, exercising, and going out - all Great Goddess like activities.
But, I'd like to know more about this -
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got a call from my hubby, called him back and talked to him, and then spent almost a full hour online with him, laughing and talking, told him I loved him, and then went out.
What did you talk about? It sounds like it went well? How were you interacting with him in a way that was meeting his ENs? How were you engaging him? What seemed to make him responsive during this exchange?
These are all key things to be aware of so that you can continue to use them in the future. Sounds like whatever you were doing was making him feel Good, making him feel Comfortable in engaging with you!!!
I talked to him about how the rest of his day at work went. And then asking qualifying questions from that. Everytime he has me a question (not very often) I would answer it and then follow it up with a compliment.
I asked him if it was snowing outside, he went and checked for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I thanked him and told him I was hoping it would snow for him.
I asked him about what was wrong with his ONE friend that still talks to him truck. He told me, and then I asked engaging questions about that. Like how much money it would take to fix it, how long. He said "Mark said", then I asked him about who Mark was, he reminded me and then I told him I was thinking of an old friend of ours and asked him about him. Oh darn, I just thought of how I could have gotten a great memory in. It was Passover Seders at our house which was a huge tradition. I'll have to work that one in somehow. Because not only will OW not know how to pull one off, but HE won't be WELCOME to his friends house with her and then one EN - family commitment won't be met.
Because we are supposed to have some snow I asked him when he was going to work on the car and he told me either tonight, tomorrow or Sunday. I asked about my car and he said he didn't know when, but he would have time this weekend. I made a joke about offering him fudge as a bribe. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We are extremely comfortable around each other when it is the H. Have been since this whole thing blew up. The challenge is... and this has always been a problem, I am WAY more FULL of LIFE. The other real letting loose and having fun is when he is playing sports. And that doesn't include me on the field.
What seemed to make him responsive...other than the WH wasn't as strong, he wasn't tired, or frustrated with her. I don't know, that's the part I haven't been able to figure out. Sometimes he is one word sentences and has to go really quick. Tonight he just kept talking.
I KNOW he loves to talk and have me listen. Making time for him was one of the biggest complaints. He WANTS to be the center of my world. My sense is that OW isn't nearly as "wordly" or able to process things as easily as me. DUH she is a crack addict for gosh sakes, but nonetheless, when he first left he told me she was intelligent. My DD told me that is so not true and she heard an exchange over the phone where he talks down to her.
I am able to talk to him about football, sports in general, Judaism, his work, car stuff, history, politics, drugs and alcohol stuff, actually just about anything and once I ask questions he usually chirps like a bird.
On the phone he is most comfortable talking to me. We have GREAT conversations where I try to meet as many needs as I can.
I decided last night that I wanted to leave him an email when he woke up in the morning. This was a way of conversation that up until about 3 months before D-day we didn't have. We used it quite a lot and when D-day happened, he told me, that she and he didn't communicate that way. He offered to show me on the computer. I probably should have said yes so I could have gotten his password. Oh well, I wasn't thinking clearly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So here is the email I sent him, actually one of them.
Good morning WH,
My hope for you is to have a spectacular day and know that all you have done for me is completely appreciated. You are an amazing man.
I don't think you got the snow you were hoping for, but I know how much you love it, as do I and hopefully there will be lots of it this Shabbat.
I look forward to hearing your laughter soon and seeing the smile in your eyes.
B
Here is his response: Good mourning, no snow yet but I hope later. Have a great day and a good Shabbot WH
This is the other email that I sent him, but he didn't respond to this one. Which I kinda find interesting.
WH: It's important to me that you know that I haven't forgotten to send some of Aaron's pictures. I am having a little technical difficulty trying to figure out where the heck I put them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My eyes are a little sore and my brain is full from tonight, so I will do that first thing in the morning and take care of it for you.
B
I am looking for feedback on what I could have done better or what I shouldn't have done. Thank you for your help, truly.
I brought hubby MORE Fudge and spent appr. 1/2 hour up in his office alone talking with him. Laughing and touching him lovingly. Asking him to show me his job, engaging him in conversations.
Not only did I bring him fudge, but I brought him pictures of our Thanksgiving this year without him, pictures of our cabin and pictures of his neices and great nephews and neices. I also on the caption piece included a picture of us on our cruise with our wedding rings on top of the Tanakh or bible. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I told him I had more pictures for him.
I said I was looking forward to him coming over to help me with the car and he teased me about what car. We teased back and forth and joked for a little while. He said he needed to get back to work and as I went to leave he asked me a question, I closed the door and talked some more, all the while, standing right next to him, hugging him, touching his neck, leaning over his desk, etc.
Then I went to leave two more times and each time he asked me a question, which I came back in and answered. Then, I asked him if he would take me out and play frisbee with me. After teasing and flirting he finally agreed.
He got a call and I finally said, ok cutie, see ya soon. I love you and walked out. He didn't really hear me or respond. Who knows. But it was another blessed day.
JT agrees that I should head up to his game tomorrow regardless if she is there or not.
His co-workers were thoroughly impressed with my fudge, as I left, I told them I wanted to get my husband back. I asked one if he was a praying man, he kinda laughed. I said if so, I am not above bribes and would bring him his own fudge. He told me I was on. So, now I have two of his employees on board to support me winning him back.
On my way to AA to remember who I am, but I have more to write about one thing we talked about which was very interesteing. Back in two hours.
For those of you who are walking a Christian life?
Can I ask you a question. This has been weighing on my heart and after reading some of MM's post and listening to all of you talk about the Christian walk. I guess I am scared that because I am Jewish and don't believe in Jesus as the son of G-d, I am not worthy of having my marriage restored.
How do you feel about what I am thinking or feeling?
Bracha,
I don't remember if I have posted to you before but I want to tell you that as a Christian, I am helped and inspired when I read of your faith and courage in the God of your understanding. That's all.
Hi there, no I don't believe you have posted before. Thank you for taking time now to. It means a lot. Sometimes when the nights are late and I have trouble going to sleep, it really helps to have someone say this.
I do have FAITH and BELIEVE G-d is grooming me for something very special. Of course I hope and pray and believe it's his will to bring my H home some day hopefully soon. I have to completely TRUST that he is working this whole situation out to the good and I will be blessed no matter what.
My G-d is a very patient one with me, so as James and JT keep reminding me, wait on the Lord. He will provide.
Well, I am off to watch hubby play soccer. It's 7:30 am and one of the biggest gripes he has was that I wouldn't get up this early to watch him play.
I gotta tell ya, he could be there or not be there. It's a 40 minutes drive for a hope. But he is worth it and G-d wants me to do it.
I'm scared, but I walk with G-d and he is my Shepherd and will take care of me.
Remember I said there was one other thing to say from yesterday. It was so weird, we were having this awesome time and discussion and then he asked me a question about going to services. I said that I usually went to AA meetings on Friday and we talked about our sobriety dates. I asked him what day his was, and he said I have no clue, it's not important to me. I tried to engage him in conversation and I swear he started shuffling papers and got extremely nervous. He admits to the years, but doesn't care about the date. Hmmm.... I wonder what that was about. Could he be H knows deep inside he is in an addiction and I hit a nerve? Because when I saw him online last night, he was completely back to WH and short abrupt and just left.
Chrisalis, you are too kind. I will wonder over there later.
Ok, here's what I have done for today. I went to his game, he was there playing and shocked to see me. It was raining and his shirt was getting wet, so he took it off and I asked if I could hold it, "Yes, please".
I said good morning in my sweetest voice and smile, he said morning and asked what I was doing there. I said "coming to watch you play".
I am not totally sure, but I think OW was in the car, so I marked "MY TERRITORY" and watched the whole game. I had some music on and I danced while I was there. I kept looking to see if she was in the car, and I was stunned she didn't get out of the car. But since coming home, he received a call on his cell phone from their home phone and I am not sure she was there.
Either way, its a total win win for me. If she wasn't there, I met his recreational companionship need. If she was there, oh if you could see how bold I was about looking straight in the car and strutting my stuff. I was talking to people who were playing. I so tried to find the right opportunity to introduce myself as his wife, but it didn't present itself.
I know they are playing on Monday, I am going up there for sure. Regardless of whether she is there or not. And I know just what to wear. I wore a black sweatshirt that has MY LAST NAME on it. And he was wearing a sweatshirt that he got in Mass a few years back. I haven't been able to weat mine because it was too small. Guess what fits. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And with any bit of luck she will be there and I WILL be wearing the same shirt as him and SHE WON'T HAVE ONE.
He was not extremely comfortable with me and after the game tried to get away from me really quickly. I made sure to give him a hug, right in front of her if she was there and told him I loved him. He did ask me what I was doing for the weekend. I said baking, he said again? And then I said playing a Monopoly tournament with our son. I told him I was looking forward to him coming over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He called me on the way home, didn't leave a message. I called him right back and left a message. Hi sweetie, I see you called and I am returning you call. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He was just online a few minutes ago, I told him he played good and I really enjoyed watching him. Thanks...
Funny thing.... he didn't respond. The WH is back and bringing out his horrible self.
So, help me. Did I utilize the situation as best as possible? What could I have done better or differently?
I am off to exercise and fake and bake, then come home and bake for real and start that tourney. I'll keep checking in to see what you say and what I should be doing next.
I learned something today, Mimi. I learned that I am the WIFE and I can go anywhere I want and hold my head up high and say I am his wife and talk to the people around him. She CAN'T b/c she is the OW and will be that way for a long time. And while I am around, people won't respect her because I am gracious, friendly, outgoing, and love to meet new people. I can extend my hand in friendship as his wife, she can't. I didn't realize the fun I can have with this until I go dark.
You know, if you are in the right mind a girl could almost have some fun with this. However, I think WH is a little pissed off right now. Here's how our online interaction went. For all you experts HELP... did I do something wrong?
me: what cha up to
WH: looking for a car
me: how come
WH: tab expire this month
me: ?
WH: cars arnt registered in name yet and cant afford to
me: I thought that was taken care of. why don't you just drive the Sub
WH: Gas 100 a week I cant afford
me: true how expensive is it to transfer the name? are you having any luck
WH: Tax on a 2001 or 1997 are at value because they were both gifts Some we will see
me: so what do you do with them that sucks, doesn't it
WH: Sell hopefully
me: how long have you been looking for one
WH: On and off I always look but serious now
me: LOL I had a fabulous time watching you at soccer. How is your ankle
WH: Fine
me: good Is it snowing? The sun was out here for awhile, while I was walking around Its defintely not cold enough here
WH: No to warm and sunny
me: bummer do you have access to myspace
WH: NO
me: well, DYS did an awesome tribute to Sean Taylor on it with music. I was kinda proud of him
WH: Good thats great
me: Hey you, thanks for talking to me. I want to go irritate the boys for awhile. good luck on your search and let me know if I can help in anyway.
WH: Have a good night got to go start the BBQ
me: ok, you too. I'll miss you
What could I have done differently. Clearly my showing up today shook him. He wasn't as friendly as he was over the last two days or as open to talk. Hmmm. Defintely the WH.
You have no idea how much I needed this tonight. For some reason I am feeling like a failure. Somehow I have to remember I am in a WAR and it's a series of battles I am in.
I really need to hear this encouragement because I don't see it or understand it. So how do I have timing and respect, what is it that I am doing. As for the coaches - I thank G-d everyday that Mimi is coachng me.
As for the marital property. He isn't selling "our" cars. If you can believe this, when he moved in with OW, she was taking care of an old man who was dying. This old man gifted OW and WH with cars. Or at least that is what he says. I am actually a little concerned he is buying a car with her name on the title. Can he do that? Or is it partly mine since there is NO LSA with us yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I will definetly change the wording to missing my husband, next chance I get.
Everytime I get now I am talking to him as much and as long as possible. Is that a good thing or should I back off?
Sounds like you had some hidden expectations about going to see WH play today.
Those sure can kick our butts and give us the signal of failing.
Not real, though, are they? You caught the battle vs. the war right away.
We have internal battles, too.
Your great timing is in not deluging WH during the game and not in staying silent. You were right in the middle. And you did what you regreted not doing previously. You amended that act of care, to meet his EN.
Way to go. So you're looking for clarity, reinforcement, assurance...wanna share what the voice in your head is saying about your choices today which is distressing you?
Were you proud of your actions and words today? Did they stand up to the standards you made for yourself?
Hey, where he spends his money while married is an issue. You're married. His debt is your debt...and vice versa, in the majority of states. Up to you to get clarity on the laws pertaining to this...and no, wouldn't have known myself until my marriage was ending.
When you change your wording, you are enforcing your boundary of honesty around yourself. Clarifying. Act of self-care and self-respect, in my book.
Temper keeping him talking. You're keeping it short...I prefer to see it as respect of choice...he chooses to speak or not, IM or not, for how long...from his own whys.
You are saddled with the same responsibility. I remember marking every breath I could hear DWH take on the phone three years ago. I remember.
Key to Plan A is to stay present (don't allow your thoughts to zoom into the past or the future while you speak and listen)...do listen and repeat when he talks about his stuff (his thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions)...so you hand back his stuff to him...and don't swallow it down in judgment about you, pertaining to you...being the cause, control or cure of him and his actions.
You know you aren't. You got AA. You might also want to attend Alanon meetings...your loved one is in an addiction, isn't he?
LA, I don't know how to use the quote thing, can you help me with that.
I was extremely proud of my actions and my words today. It felt good to be there as his wife and feel the love I had for my H.
I think I might be getting caught up in the expectation that it might have made a difference. Partly because the last two days I had a calmer more engaged person than the monster. I really can't stand the WH and when he is around I get more nervous that I am saying or doing something wrong.
I need a little more reinforcement on the debt thing. You see, he can't get a loan, so he won't be in debt on the car. He will just have a insurance bill which has been separated. He absolutely doesn't feel that what he does with his money is any of my business. In fact that's why I am looking to get the LSA.
I don't really get much in the way of beliefs, thoughts, perceptions, or feelings. I really just get fluff most of the time.
I actually have started going to AlAnon.
He is in an addiction and I of all people should really get this. I do when I am talking to someone else, but somehow my mind waters down the significance of it.
You did great today! Something you said in one of your posts struck me-about knowing that you are his wife and you can hold your head high. You do have that bearing in you, it's something I noticed but you put it into words. Absolutely you are the "Queen."
Just wanted you to know.
Looking forward to our next get-together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Here I am getting slaughtered my son, and laughing hysterically. I might add we are watching football as well. I am creating memories and a home for our children. And yet, I think that I am missing out because H isn't here.
WH who prefers to spend his time with crack ho. We really need to come up with a better name. I mean she is after all a child of G-d as well and hurting in her own life or she wouldn't do what she is doing.
I need to get rid of this stinkin thinkin. Please hit me.
Yes, you do have a regal bearing-so you can call yourself Queenie. Like Queen Esther.
I so enjoyed meeting you-even with all the mall "traffic". It was as if we had always been friends. I think that's another one of those "God-things".
I ended up having dinner with my friend Sharon and left around 8:00.
About the bracelet, I think it's find to keep it on. The beads are silver and there's a wire inside, so it is water safe. And I finally remembered the one line of Ps. 23 that I couldn't for the bead after the brown one (you prepare a table before me) It was "my cup runs over". I think it's the light gold bead-maybe it's for ginger ale. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are already halfway there! You have your AA knowledge. The twelve steps are valuable lessons that do not apply only to addictions. They are life lessons.
You have been getting great advice. Paying it forward is a new position for me to be in, but I'm going to jump in anyway. Even if I'm not "perfect" at it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So...new name for the OW. I can't even remember how someone here came up with RT for "the skank," which is what I call her IRL (she would often complain about her fat ankles...or skankles, hee hee).
Sorry...I can't help you come up with a name that evokes the image of a crack-ho-child-of-God-home-wrecker.
You are so right, I felt so comfortable being with you. I actually didn't want to leave. There is a calm to you that just feels so sweet and loving.
This bracelet means a lot to me. I feel safer some how. I feel protected.
What is a regal bearing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know I am probably fishing for a compliment, but I don't really know what that means.
Ginger ale it is. It sparkles in the sun. I love sparkly things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I could describe her physically which isn't nice. Or I could give you some description of her life previous to H.
He is online looking for cars. Should I talk to him some more or leave him alone? Remember, I am pretty much dealing with the WH right now. Of course you all know that.
Regal bearing is one of royalty-class and grace together.
And you have a lot more confidence than you think. You are doing a great job with Plan A, showing up with fudge, asking for prayers from WH's co-workers, going to the game at the crack of dawn (well, it's barely daybreak at 7:30 around here this time of year).
Plus, you have a compassionate heart. You are posting to others, offering encouragement and sharing your journey. (and you let your YS beat you at Monopoly).
Yes, our WS's are choosing to miss out on time with their kids. But we are creating a safe place for our children by being there with them, and showing them that faith doesn't necessarily make life easy, but it makes the tough things in life easier to live through. Your faith is a refuge for them. (Prov 14:26).
Instead of thinking about what your WH is missing out on, think of it as having extra "helpings" of your YS's laughter .
wait, how did I deserve it George: Yes you do Sent at 7:11 PM on Sunday me: You know, I enjoy hearing him laugh like I did you. More than winning. Maybe that's why you went in for the kill because I just enjoyed being with you. dang he did it again me: you youngest son is kicking my living touckis..... me: your, and he is having a very good time doing it
WH: LOL
me: he has a killer instinct in him, like his daddy. Remember all those Risks games we played together. You were brutal Roessler
WH: You deserved it tell him to take no prisoners
me: I will not. besides I am making a come back or at least holding my own for the minute
WH: Be that way
me: I never deserved it wait, how did I deserve it
WH: Yes you do WH: Go YS
me: I love your support of me. thanks babe
WH: Have a good night
He was gone but will get these messges next time he signs on
me: I am, thanks. me: I miss you husband
How did I do, do I make any mistakes, missed opportunties.
Thanks JT, I truly hope you know how much what you are saying is touching my heart.
I really need to work on some belief in myself that I am a worth person.
Ok, you know it these thoughts are going around in my head.
Where the addiction end of all this makes sense. What is just blowing my mind is how can WH live with himself knowing he is DESTROYING his relationship with his children.
He has not tried to get any time with them alone. If for this reason alone give me the hope that he will snap out of it one day. Can he truly live in this fantasyland forever? Remember, he was an everyday dad.
Or is this normal that a WW just ignores his children and shows no interest in what is really happening in their life.
I am not saying what I truly mean, does someone have a better way of explaining what I am trying to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He lives in this world of no touch with reality, thinking his kids should be the ones to make the relationship work. I know it is similar to JT, but who else has worked through this one?
If you have time, could you read some of the online conversations I have had with WH and help me see if there is anything I could be saying differently to draw him out?
You are doing an AWESOME, AWESOME PLAN A!! You are so COURAGEOUS!! You are WOWING me...
Quote
Ok, you know it these thoughts are going around in my head.
STINKIN THINKIN...Shake your head, Queenie....
Quote
Where the addiction end of all this makes sense.
IT IS NOT GONNA MAKE SENSE!!
Quote
What is just blowing my mind is how can WH live with himself knowing he is DESTROYING his relationship with his children.
You have gotta get this line of thinking out of your mind. He is NOT THINKING LOGICALLY. All he cares about is GETTING HIS HIGH off of her...nothing else...
IT IS AN ADDICTION..
I think you can UNDERSTAND THIS...
Quote
He has not tried to get any time with them alone. If for this reason alone give me the hope that he will snap out of it one day. Can he truly live in this fantasyland forever? Remember, he was an everyday dad.
He is STANDARD GARDEN-VARIETY WS..my H didn't have anything to do with our son either, Queenie...
HE IS NO LONGER YOUR H NOW...
I'm so sorry, Queenie. You have got to ACCEPT THIS...
Quote
Or is this normal that a WW just ignores his children and shows no interest in what is really happening in their life.
YES!!!
Quote
He lives in this world of no touch with reality, thinking his kids should be the ones to make the relationship work. I know it is similar to JT, but who else has worked through this one
My H and I and most others on here...who made it to RECOVERY...
He's following the TYPICAL WS SCRIPT..NO DIFFERENT!!
So then following the typical WS is a good sign? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I miss you Mimi. I'm glad your life is busy. But I feel so SAFE and walking in the RIGHT Direction when you are around. I hope that's ok. Am I doing anything wrong that you can tell or should I be doing something else. Is it possible to do too much at this point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I have one thing up my sleeve for tomorrow if it pans out. He is supposed to go over to his friends house and work on his car. Now his/our friends dad happens to be in town who I have never met. OW usually goes with WH, but she is not welcome in the house because our friends' wife is one of my best friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So, I was thinking about popping over and going inside to meet dear old dad and introduce myself as the wife and mother of MS. You see, MS did a project on dear old dad last year and we have never met. What do you think? Then I think I will pretty much back off. Or should I keep going. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
I am still not totally sure what I am doing at this point other than being the best I can be. What am I working towards for Plan B? And when will we know it's TIME?
The chops that he ate tonight, were given to me as a present from MY friend. And he took them and snubs it in my face they were amazing. SHE ate a present that was meant for US. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Ok, I feel better.
I got the book by the way and will start reading it.
I really am trying to accept he is NO LONGER my H. It's so hard. But then I can look at him and see he is so different. The beard helps alot and that stupid thing on the back of his neck. Not to mention the tatoos. Does having a MLC putting more of a wrench into this or just more "typical" WW crud?
Ok, also. I was thinking about him buying this car. Since there is NO LSA between us, anything he does buy it half mine if we are a community property state, correct? He can't put her name on it can he? I know check with the lawyer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
How are you doing Mimi, what are you up to? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I don't know how to do the quote thing, can you tell me please?
Quote: You have gotta get this line of thinking out of your mind. He is NOT THINKING LOGICALLY. All he cares about is GETTING HIS HIGH off of her...nothing else...
IT IS AN ADDICTION..
I think you can UNDERSTAND THIS...
My response: You would THINK I have this part down, but something is blocking me. Maybe it's because its not a drug. I just get stuck here. How did you finally learn to accept it and all the ramifications.
Oh wait, I know. If I keep denying this then I can maybe control or fix it. I KNOW that if he was drinking or using, there would be NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I could do to stop it. But I would know deep down that somehow he would hit rock bottom and come to his senses. This one seems more scarier because he can lie to himself about this addiction, where if he was drinking or drugging he would avoid, but deep down he couldn't lie. The using is way more obvious. See the difference, help me get beyond this thinking once and for all.
Does that make sense? How did you finally come to accept it. Was it over time? A certain event?
For the most part I have forgiven myself for all the mistakes I have made and asked G-d to forgive me and give me a second chance.
Help me come to terms once and for all on this and move on to the next battle, ok?
To quote something type the left bracket [ then the word "quote" all lower case. Then type the right bracket ] (These are the ones just above and to the left of the <ENTER> key)
Then copy and paste the text you wish to quote. Follow that with the [ again, then / the word "quote" once more and the ] to finish it off.
The [ and ] indicate a command rather than text to be shown. the / indicates the end of the command. Between the two is the text that is acted upon by the command.
Thus when I say [/tj] I am saying "end thread jack."
If you use the same format and replace "quote' with a lower case "b' you will get bold and the letter "i' will give you italics.
You can also do colors by enclosing the string color:XXXXX where XXXX is the name of the color such as [color:"red"]red[/color] and ending it with the switch /color also in the brackets.
You can make it a url by typing a string of url=websitenameorlinkasacompleteurl (copy and paste from another browser window is the best way to do this, BTW) all enclosed within the brackets then add a name or shorter phrase such as "Read this Link" and ending it with the switch /url again inside the brackets.
That's the nickel tour of UBB code.
The chemicals involved in this are the same ones involved in drug addictions. While that may be hard to accept, it is a matter of fact. And just like a person who is using crack on a regular basis, the addict does not see the control the negative activity is having in their life. While high, they feel wonderful.
God can get you through this, regardless of the outcome for your marriage. You have been doing so wonderfully of late and your patience is way deeper than mine. I'd have been in a dark Plan B by now.
Jer 29:11..."I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "Plans to prosper and not to harm you...Plans to give you hope and a future.."
Psalm 5:12 "You, oh Lord, will bless the righteous. You surround them with your favor as with a shield"
As the Lord told Joshua...As I was with Moses, so I will be with you. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged... (Josh 1:5) He repeated it several times to Joshua. His way of making sure we get what He says.
Let's see how technical I am. LOL [quote:] The chemicals involved in this are the same ones involved in drug addictions. While that may be hard to accept, it is a matter of fact. And just like a person who is using crack on a regular basis, the addict does not see the control the negative activity is having in their life. While high, they feel wonderful. [quote:]
You are talking about the chemicals that are effecting the brain, correct? And thereby the negative effect of the action causes their life to become unamanageable. Thus the behavior is now an active addict to a relationship. JT kept talking to me about the chemical reaction, but this is making that a little more clear. So in reality, some how, some way I have to absolutely accept my husband is an active addict whose chemicals are altered in their brain just as if he were using coke which was HIS DRUG of CHOICE.
Thank you for the compliment. I don't feel like I have been patient enough. I saw tonight that I say I don't expect anything, but deep down I think I must be hoping for something. I need to knock that off. Because I can remember when my H was actively using all those years ago, he was absolutely self destructive and destroying his life. It was when he was in the throws of his addiction that he cheated on me the first time when I was pregnant with my first child.
I truly am becoming stronger and stronger each day that no matter the outcome G-d will turn this into something good, just like Jer 29:11.
I really enjoy when you and everyone else send me scripture. It helps me to go looking for my own path in Torah.
We are truly the blessed ones on this website, because I KNOW one day I am going to be able to give back to someone who comes after me and in their darkest hour I will be able to work for G-d and bring light into their lives, just as you all bring it to mine and help me focus myself back to my deep growing FAITH in this walk with G-d.
L'dor v' Dor - From generation to generation.
He knows something about me, that I haven't found out yet, and he believes me and all of us to be strong enough to come out the other side a glory to his being. And for that I can say AMEN.
Drop the : and use the / switch before the "quote" at the end.
[ then quote]the text you want to quote[ then /quote].
I gotta put other stuff in there so it doesn't build a quote box for me...
The format is [command]text[/command] where "command" in this case is the word quote. Replace quote with b for bold and i for italics. For color replace the first "command" with color:red, blue, green, yellow, orange,etc and turn it off with /color in the last set of brackets.
The [command] means "turn on command" and the [/command] means "turn off command." so it's "on" in the first set and "off "in the second set by using the / as a switch to turn it off. (It really is called a switch, BTW.)
Can we ever get back the innocence or simpler things in life.
I am so overwhelmed by my gratitude for G-d right now. I can't stop crying becuase of it. My heart is so full of love for those on here as well as the man I married. How is that possible when my heart is breaking from the absolute destruction of my M. I am so blessed to not be bitter and angry but hopeful that there is a plan for me that will be ok, truly ok.
I don't know what to do with these feelings, how do you glorify G-d enough for not leaving us when we are so sad inside and hurting so terribly from this.
It doesn't seem like there is anything I can do that would be enough to thank G-d for leaving my heart in tack, a little battered, bruised and definetly hurting, but the love is so deep inside.
If you can, please remember to look at the online convos WH and I had earlier, to see if I am missing RB opportunities or where I could create some. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sorry it took so long. Had some 'war of words' stuff going on.... guess it just irks me when some try to hang onto silly assumptions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Anyways, I read back 2 pages.... now from what I can see you are still in contact with him and the current status is he and OW ate the dish your BF made for your family? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
If I read it correctly, I am seething, so please let me know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
My guess is that you need to have a plan on how to treat him when he acts as a WS and a separate one when he acts as your real good H.
My motto is: Plan A your real H but plan B the WS.
Later when you can get your mind and heart in sync, you can move forward with a solid plan B.
Ok, now I am going to get some dinner. It was put on hold for a while. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Yes, you are correct. One day before we moved from my house, my WH brought OW over to the house to look through stuff to see what "they" wanted for "their" house. I didn't realize they had gone through my food.
And then to rub my nose in it, just shows how cruel he can be. But then, I have been Plan Aing him pretty good apparently that it would go to show he has to hurt me and see what I do. I didn't get mad, I turned it into a joke.
He just really doesn't get I have changed and how much I love him.
Mimi is working me real hard to Plan B. I like your motto, because where I am totally capable of Plan Aing him in person, I don't like dealing with WH online. It is way too impersonal and my feelings seem to get hurt easier.
What method of communication do you feel safe when you have to communicate with the WS?
For me it was e-mails since it had a lower impact on the emotions. I could post, think and revise before I hit send. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
For dinner I had goulash and rice. Oh yea.... and a Hawaiian Harvey Wallbanger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The chemicals involved in this are the same ones involved in drug addictions. While that may be hard to accept, it is a matter of fact. And just like a person who is using crack on a regular basis, the addict does not see the control the negative activity is having in their life. While high, they feel wonderful.
Mark explains this well, IMO. IT'S JUST A FACT. That's how I came to accept it. Steve Harley told me that: "If you want to recover your marriage, YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THIS!!"
You say this A LOT. Where does this thinking come from?
You have LIMITED CONTACT with him. It's best to do PLAN A with your WH at home. You are doing this from afar and doing WELL given his limited availability. Your goal is to FILL HIS LOVE BANK. You already have discovered that he limits your access to him. I don't think you have opportunity to do TOO MUCH..whatever that means...
"What am I working towards for Plan B? And when will we know it's TIME?"
Now that he has become comfortable talking with you, the conversation will need to eventually turn towards a PLAN FOR RECONCILIATION...a few or more direct talks with him about how you want to get back together..how that will specifically by accomplished...and for him to tell you HIS REASONS why that cannot happen...and then for you to DIRECTLY tell him that you will get a LSA given his unwillingness to reconcile...
SO: More one-on-one meetings...introduction of specific discussion regarding reconciliation..this is the NEGOTIATION I was speaking of...when/if he says "NO WAY" for whatever FOGGISH REASONS....then you tell him that you will "LET HIM GO" and you will seek a LSA....once that is done, you give him the PLAN B LETTER....
I'm saying that these PRELIMINARY CONVERSATIONS are necessary...you are giving him the HEADS UP prior to PLAN B..you are informing him about the MarriageBuilders POV: "I have changed..we can reconcile and have a new and better marriage..let's work on this TOGETHER....You are saying: "THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND WHAT I WANT..I WANT YOU"...
"Then I think I will pretty much back off. Or should I keep going."
Do you want to BACK OFF because you are TIRED of doing this? Are you losing your love for your H? That's when to back off...when YOUR LOVE BANK starts to dwindle..Remember this is ALL ABOUT YOU...
"Does having a MLC putting more of a wrench into this or just more "typical" WW crud?"
I think my H had a MLC..but it doesn't matter..the MBers PLANS remain the same...and your WH sounds typical..The only thing is: He is a recovering substance abuser. Are you sure he isn't using the other stuff given that she is using...that's what would make your situation different...
Come to think of it, you might want to throw in the idea that he may be ADDICTED to her..just throw it out since a part of him is knowledgeable about addictions...My H finally accepted and acknowledged his addiction..and it was HELPFUL in his understanding of what had happened to him...
About the car...If he puts it in his name though, he is responsible for the payment. The credit bureaus will only know about him. That's what I liked about the stuff that my H bought when he was on his own. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"How are you doing Mimi, what are you up to?"
I only post when my H is not at home or asleep and he has been off for the holidays. We are going away for a few days early next week so that's how come I may not be around...
You've got a lot to work on...SEE ABOVE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Orchid, [quote} What method of communication do you feel safe when you have to communicate with the WS? [/quote]
Really any method. The online is most hurtful to me when he does his come and go or real quick short answers that rub in my face what is happening over on that side of the street. Face to face when she isn't around we have a great time and talk very well. Rather he talks and I listen. I don't like situations where she can be present.
Mimi,
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You say this A LOT. Where does this thinking come from?
Because I forget that it's just about ME and I am not worried or thinking about how he is going to react. So, I will keep working on dropping this thinking. I am working on getting rid of the stickin thinkin.
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Now that he has become comfortable talking with you, the conversation will need to eventually turn towards a PLAN FOR RECONCILIATION...a few or more direct talks with him about how you want to get back together..how that will specifically by accomplished...and for him to tell you HIS REASONS why that cannot happen...and then for you to DIRECTLY tell him that you will get a LSA given his unwillingness to reconcile...
So truly the paperwork for the LSA needs to be ready to go before I tell him I am getting an LSA? I don't want him to cut off the money before that, right? Can you give me suggestions on how to approach these negotiations, and when do I know the time is right to do it? Or just go with my heart?
When he gives me those reasons do I just listen and say nothing but thank you for that information or do I hope that I have some RB skills in me to use when it happens?
Specifically how that will be accomplished would include N/C letter to other woman, having him move home, and going back to AA?
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SO: More one-on-one meetings...introduction of specific discussion regarding reconciliation..this is the NEGOTIATION I was speaking of...when/if he says "NO WAY" for whatever FOGGISH REASONS....then you tell him that you will "LET HIM GO" and you will seek a LSA....once that is done, you give him the PLAN B LETTER....
How did you specifically introduce these topics?
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I'm saying that these PRELIMINARY CONVERSATIONS are necessary...you are giving him the HEADS UP prior to PLAN B..you are informing him about the MarriageBuilders POV: "I have changed..we can reconcile and have a new and better marriage..let's work on this TOGETHER....You are saying: "THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND WHAT I WANT..I WANT YOU"...
Ok, I need to really read what you are saying and pray for clarity on this. I'll be back for more help, I am sure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Do you want to BACK OFF because you are TIRED of doing this? Are you losing your love for your H? That's when to back off...when YOUR LOVE BANK starts to dwindle..Remember this is ALL ABOUT YOU...
Actually I am having fun doing this for the most part when I keep the addiction idea in my brain and I understand that there is NOTHING at this point that I can DO to push him farther away or have him get sick of seeing me. I can keep this up as long as I need to for it to be effective.
The one concern is what the lawyer said, as time goes on and I continue to get shortchanged with the money, then my changes of getting everything are more limited. The judge will look at it as though we have worked things out instead of making him pay for what is rightfully due me. Does that make sense?
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I think my H had a MLC..but it doesn't matter..the MBers PLANS remain the same...and your WH sounds typical..The only thing is: He is a recovering substance abuser. Are you sure he isn't using the other stuff given that she is using...that's what would make your situation different...
Before Friday I would have said absolutely NO WAY or as much as possible. But when we had that discussion about our AA birthdays he got very nervous or weird and said that the date wasn't important to me. He agreed to the years, but absolutely doesn't care for the specific day. I really don't believe he is using, but there is NO WAY for me to truly know. My gut says he is so self-righteous that he wouldn't, but there is NO WAY I can say anything about him for sure. Not anymore.
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Come to think of it, you might want to throw in the idea that he may be ADDICTED to her..just throw it out since a part of him is knowledgeable about addictions...My H finally accepted and acknowledged his addiction..and it was HELPFUL in his understanding of what had happened to him...
I actually asked him that this summer when he was really waffling about coming home. He immediately said no, should I ask him again? Did you go into details with your H why you thought it was an addiction?
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I only post when my H is not at home or asleep and he has been off for the holidays. We are going away for a few days early next week so that's how come I may not be around...
How nice for you. I am so happy for you and the others who have been blessed enough for their marriages to be restored.
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You've got a lot to work on...SEE ABOVE...
Yes I do. Let me print this off and think and pray about it. You know I'll be back with questions or reassurance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I realized through reading this, that never in any of the conversations I had with WH was there any substance. He just wants to have fun and all I have been trying to do is meet those needs. He clearly doesn't want to live in reality, but HIS reality. Oh but wait, here's where that tid bit of info he gave me on how to deal with the boys.
Even though he will probably shut down and not respond, I will just say my piece and walk away. I need to have my piece arranged in my head. I wonder, should I have it written down and use it for notes? Or just go with what my heart says knowing that I will be very nervous and not say anything.
So, given that I am ok with keeping with Plan A, should I keep up with just the light stuff until after the holidays and our anniversary on Jan 1, or should I try and get some of this accomplished sooner?
Hi SG, just dropping by to say "Hi". Found out yesterday that I have pneumonia (yuck!) so I've been laying low trying to get a little better before Christmas.
Tis the season for illnesses, unfortunately. Take care of yourself. Merry Christmas. You and I have a date next week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You don't actually have to type the words to make a quote. In the reply section, under th INSTANT UBB CODE section, click on the word Quote and the words will appear in the brackets. Paste what you want to quote within the bracketed words.
I really recommend that you get yourself a copy of Surviving an Affair and study it so that you can know the difference between PLAN A and PLAN B. I read (past tense- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) that book daily along with my Bible.
So you ask...
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So truly the paperwork for the LSA needs to be ready to go before I tell him I am getting an LSA? I
Not really. All that I told you in my last post happens over a series of conversations. These are points that you want to make to him: That you want to reconcile with him, how that would look and if he doesn't move in that direction, then you will proceed with obtaining a LSA.
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Can you give me suggestions on how to approach these negotiations, and when do I know the time is right to do it? Or just go with my heart?
Then should BEGIN..NOW. This is part of PLAN A. This is why I'm encouraging you to read SURVIVING an AFFAIR. Dr. Harley spells this out in his book.
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When he gives me those reasons do I just listen and say nothing but thank you for that information or do I hope that I have some RB skills in me to use when it happens?
LOL..I never learned the RB skills..Orchid tried to teach me..but that wouldn't have worked with my WH as I told her then..because part of MY PLAN A was changing from being so cynical and sarcastic...he HATED that about the OLD ME...so I tried to CLEAR AND DIRECT with him..and I DIDN'T LISTEN TO MOST OF WHAT HE HAD TO SAY..In my view, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS FOR THE WS..a lot of what my WH had to say was BULLCRAP, I learned. So my point is to SAY WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY...if you have him captive, on a walk..at the park..he will have to listen...
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Specifically how that will be accomplished would include N/C letter to other woman, having him move home, and going back to AA?
There you go..you will need to spell out how YOU want it to look and ASK him HIS OPINION...
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How did you specifically introduce these topics?
No special techniques..other than honestly speaking your truth as LA would say: "I want you to end your affair and to come to be with me"...From the very hour after D-DAY, I told my H that I wanted him to end his affair..my H LIED of course and said he was "ending it" but ..well, he eventually did but it took THE PLANS....
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The one concern is what the lawyer said, as time goes on and I continue to get shortchanged with the money, then my changes of getting everything are more limited. The judge will look at it as though we have worked things out instead of making him pay for what is rightfully due me. Does that make sense?
Not to me. It may be the lawyer wanting to get paid. Aren't there laws in your state spelling out what he is required to pay, regardless of how long it takes for you to file the papers?
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I actually asked him that this summer when he was really waffling about coming home. He immediately said no, should I ask him again? Did you go into details with your H why you thought it was an addiction?
My H heard this from Steve Harley early on..but I didn't ASK HIM..I just told him that it was AN ADDICTION...it took awhile for HIM to buy what I was saying..or it took awhile for him to ADMIT AND ACKNOWLEDGE what I was saying..there was definitely a point when he wanted to break away from her...knew it was best for him to do..but HE COULDN'T...
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I need to have my piece arranged in my head. I wonder, should I have it written down and use it for notes? Or just go with what my heart says knowing that I will be very nervous and not say anything.
Remember this is NOT just ONE CONVERSATION. The INTENT of PLAN A is to negotiate THE END OF THE AFFAIR.
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So, given that I am ok with keeping with Plan A, should I keep up with just the light stuff until after the holidays and our anniversary on Jan 1, or should I try and get some of this accomplished sooner?
Don't give yourself a timeline. Make sure that it's clear to him what the point is of your interactions with him..not just to be his friend or to be nice to him..MAKE IT CLEAR THAT ALL OF THIS IS AIMED AT HIM COMING HOME TO YOU WHERE HE BELONGS...
What you are doing is NOT LIGHT STUFF, Queenie..IT IS MAJOR...
Hmmm, the quote boxes didn't work this time.... Do you see why not?
You just shifted the bracket behind the first "quote" from a ] to a }. If you edit it I bet it will be OK. It happens, I do it all the time but usually catch it in preview.
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What prayers can I ask for with G-d to accomplish clarity on how to proceed with my WH.
Why not just ask that specifically. God doesn't acknowledge a simple cry for help and less that he does an eloquent formal prayer. That's what makes Him so wonderful. He is not only the creator of the entire universe, who is full of great mysteries that can be contemplated by theologians, but is also a personal God. David says, "He is my rock." Not just "a" rock, or even "the" rock, but "my" rock.
Psalm 91 says: "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty." The Hebrew word here for Almighty is Shaddai. El Shaddai...the Lord Almighty.
Habakkuk says, "The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, he enables me to go on the heights."
I did. This is something pretty serious, because I went back to bed, spoke with G-d, with all my heart and asked as simply as I could. I chose G-d and my M over football. If anyone KNEW me, this is HUGE. HUGE. But for me no longer even a choice. If that makes sense.
Like with my sobriety and recovery, I am WILLING TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS.
But G-d is being very quiet, unusually quiet. In all the times I have prayed I have gotten something voices in my head immediately. This morning NOTHING.
I need to go back and somehow pray deeper and get closer to G-d.
My stinkin thinkin is getting in the way here. I have to shut it out. Because the WH wants no part of my M or me and that's really who I am dealing with. I need to find the FAITH and STRENGTH that G-d gives me to accomplish this.
Please pray for me to receive G-ds message and desrire for me.
OMG, Praying the hardest was what I was doing. And the MOST AMAZING thing happened.
When all else fails and there is nothing, I have turned to TORAH. I prayed for G-d to lead me to what my lesson is and where he wants to lead me. I turned to Joshua 23. And really read it. I am still procesing all that is written, however, it led me to Exodus and Moses.
Remember, my children are named after Miriam, Aaron and Moses.
The ENEMY didn't win or steal my joy. G-d won, he steered me to the story of Exodus and I'm truly in awe and shaking. Oh g-d this next stuff you want me to do with WH is exactly what Moses needed to do with the people. Hansel is Pharoah right now and his heart is hardened and I have to just have faith that no matter what I am about to do, it will hardened his heart even more.
I just have to be honest and speak from my heart about how G-d is my life now and what I have learned and continue to learn each and every moment inclduing the MB principles. And leave it in his lap. NO EXPECTATIONS, IT WILL HARDEN HIS HEART FURTHER. And then the plagues will be LSA and Plan B. And then I have to wait for the hardened heart to let my H go. and KEEP PRAYING that Hansel will turn back to G-d and hear his word. WOW!!!!!
I am heading out the door to go exercise and take care of this body that G-d has given me, fake and bake, get dinner and come back and be a mommy to my Aaron and Moses. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Oh my g-d, I can't stop crying. Do you know what a miracle this is? It was you that started this by giving me all the instructions and me being scared and asking G-d for help. And it was Mark, just writing anything that made me go to Torah and then it was G-d who gave me, when I thought he was silent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
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BUT now is the time to ACT...
PRAY THE HARDEST WHEN YOU HAVE DONE ALL THE YOU CAN DO..
PRAY THE HARDEST WHEN YOU HAVE TURNED YOUR WH OVER TO GOD...
I am ACTING AND PRAYING.... and GAINING FAITH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Do not give in to your sadness.
That's a TACTIC of the ENEMY..to STEAL your JOY...
Who can give into sadness and let the enemy steal my joy, when it's so CLEAR, that G-d is on MY SIDE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I just need to keep praying for direction, strength and opportunity now - TO ACT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Oh Mimi, Thank you so much. Thank you so much Mark... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'll be back in awhile......
And my Skins are on tonight... If you can, watch with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
This is what Plan A I did today. I called and left a message on H's vm. Hi, I am calling to talk to my hubby, and tell him that I am thinking about him and miss my husband very much and I wish my H a good day.
He called back a few minutes later, but I didnt take it. I knew he would be distracted because he was working on my friends car and I didn't want to interrupt that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just wanted my H to know I was THINKING about HIM.
I went shopping and came home and made my boys a snack - tacos. We are having crab tonight after MS gets home from rainy cold lacrosse practice.
WH: We don't live a healthy lifestyle. ME: Yes, living with a crack addict with hep c is certainly a healthier lifestyle.
If I ask him if he is addicted to OW and he responds no, how can I answer?
Orchid: Your response was fine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> As for his denial of being addicted to the OW....remember he said that, then the next time he acts addictedly (new word <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ), then remind him he isn't addicted. LOL!!!
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ME:How's your relationship with G-d. WH: I have a great relationship with G-d.
How can I answer that.
Orchid: RB response: Ws, don't mock God. How can you have a great R with God and be an adulterer?
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I am trying to really prepare myself for what WH will say when I start to lay the framework for reconciliation.
Orchid: You really want a recon with a/WH? Better to plan one for your real H which s/b much easier. In the meantime keep the WS away from your family. He is toxic.
Well, that was quite an emotional conversation with my rabbi, almost an hour. My rabbi suggested that I go to a few websites for the addiction stuff. She isn't buying that WH is in an addiction and so I just thanked her. She also thinks that G-d might be fighting for me just as hard as I am fighting for my M. This is the hardest part of where I feel that the Jewish community isn't supporting my stand for my M.
But I don't need to go there tonight or soon. I have action to do. And praying to keep up.
Mimi,
Does your my gift to you thread talk about how you came out and asked your H to come home? Or was there another thread that I can read?
You know that I am listening and reading and acting on everything you are telling me. I just have to work it around in my mind to make it understandable and therby applicable. I have faith in what you are guiding me to do, I just sometimes need to clarify it so I can wrap my mind around it.
Please keep your patience with me. I am your "finest" student. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think the best thing for you to do is to get a copy of SURVIVING AN AFFAIR. Like I said before, I read that over and over again. Dr. Harley describes PLAN A and PLAN B, giving examples and directions. That was my main guide book.
My Plan A is not on that "MY GIFT" thread.
Queenie, how else would he know that you want him to come home if you don't tell him? He probably expects for you to JUST GIVE UP and to be HIS FRIEND or something.
Are you wanting him to just do this on his own? This is when you two begin working as a TEAM.
He needs your help and let him know that you are willing to work with him on this...
I told my H from the very beginning when I first discovered his affair that I wanted "another chance"..that I did not want a divorce..that he would have to seek a divorce..even when I got the LSA, he knew it was for my financial security and not because I was planning to divorce him...
PLAN B was about NO LONGER BEING IN THE TRIANGLE with them...no involvement with him until he ended his relationship with her.
I MADE IT CLEAR TO HIM RIGHT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING...how I felt about it...
Why does this seem so odd to you?
I'm encouraging you to be OPEN and HONEST about what you want and how you feel.
You need to take charge of your life, Queenie.
You don't have to talk to ANYONE who does not agree with you or does not support you.
IMO, it is DISRESPECTFUL of anyone to try to dissuade you from pursuing this the way that you want to do it.
I'm encouraging you to become STRONGER and BOLDER. SPEAK OUT...about who you are and your beliefs..even to your rabbi. Why the need to hold back from stating your choices..how you want to lead your life?
I'm leaving tomorrow for a few days. I may not be online until Thursday.
This summer when I first found this website, I did order and read SAA and HNHN. I have read it a few times, but I will go back and read it again and see what I am missing that you know I am missing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Let me reread what you have written and see if I have any questions.
From the very beginning as well, I told my H I wanted "another chance". I told him that I realized I had made so many mistakes and was learning things and wanted to create a "new marriage" one that could be beyond our dreams ever imagined. He told me that he didn't believe that the changes were real and that he believes with a HUGE amount of work, he can have an amazing relationship with her.
I have not once steered from that. He just keeps saying he wants "something more than to be married to his best friend". His biggest argument is that he loves me but has NO DESIRE for me.
I have to admit, since I have had your guidance and have been working this Plan A, I haven't actually come out and said I want you to come home and create a new marriage. I just don't know how to bring it up. I mean, just walk right in and drop that in his lap?
It's not the doing it that's got me stuck, it's the how do I do it. Or am I just dunce on this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
From the very beginning as well, I told my H I wanted "another chance". I told him that I realized I had made so many mistakes and was learning things and wanted to create a "new marriage" one that could be beyond our dreams ever imagined.
He told me that he didn't believe that the changes were real and that he believes with a HUGE amount of work, he can have an amazing relationship with her.
Well, you know how I feel about what HE SAY... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
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He just keeps saying he wants "something more than to be married to his best friend". His biggest argument is that he loves me but has NO DESIRE for me.
GREAT NEWS!! He has NOT lost his LOVE for you!!
There's that FRIENDSHIP stuff again...interesting..same was true for my H...we're still BEST FRIENDS..and that's how I relationship got started...
I made it VERY CLEAR to him though that if he did not end his R with the OW..if he divorced me..I WOULD NOT BE HIS FRIEND ANYMORE..that's what I talk to Bugsy about a lot...Drac wanting to be her friend.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
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haven't actually come out and said I want you to come home and create a new marriage. I just don't know how to bring it up. I mean, just walk right in and drop that in his lap?
WHY NOT? What have you got to lose?
"FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAY"..JUST DO IT...Make it sweet, short and simple..Practice if you need to...
You have a long thread, so was wondering if you could give me the "short" version of your story, kind of like Sis did on Believer's holiday thread. I hate to ask, but I don't have time to read the entire thing and I want to contribute if I can.
Actually Mimi, we haven't had that conversations for a few months now. On Labor Day weekend, that Friday, he told me he was coming home because she had gone out and used again and didn't come home.
He said he was done with her. Then on Sunday of that weekend, he used the best friend line and said he wanted something more.
When did you make it clear to him? Is that pre Plan B.
I have NOTHING to LOSE and everything to gain. I just dont' know how to react if he tells me he isn't coming home. How can I walk away with my head held high and dignity and not cry when my heart will be broken.
I'm afraid to hear that this is it? Or is that just stupid on my part. Even if he tells me he isn't coming home, things can change, couldn't they.
Just call him up or go down to work and tell him? And how soon? Should I keep Plan Aing for alittle longer? I am really sorry that I am having a hard grasping this.
I will do it, but something is missing in this for me and I don't know what. UGHHHH
I think you really hit in on the head about me taking charge of my life. It's the one thing that I have NOT EVER been able to do.
I don't think you give yourself enough credit or realize your PERSONAL POWER. Didn't you say that you have lots of influence in your community? You walked right into your WH's office...that took LOADS of COURAGE...
I think it's YOUR THOUGHTS that are ENEMY...Been there...
Stop listening to the old tapes..
It's easier than you think.
When you hear the voice that says PULL BACK..GO FORWARD..
When you hear the tape that says..YOU'RE DOING TOO MUCH..DO MORE...
Do the OPPOSITE of what the tapes are telling you...
That's what I learned to do..
YOU HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE YOURSELF AND YOUR LIFE...
I've been encouraging you to BE BOLD...LOUD..BE SEEN..HEAD UP..CHEST OUT...
Hubby of 24 years has been having an A since May of 06. My two children busted him on 5-14-07 and he left home to eventually move in with her.
She is 45, twice divorced crack addict with hep c. Three children, 30, 20 and 19. The 19 YO has 3 children. OW is on state disability for her liver condition and stays at home and caters to my H.
WH is in MLC, and wanting to have no part of responsibilities, he just wants to play and have fun. He has gone from an everyday dad to almost no relationship with any of his 3 children. He is the victim in all this and feels the kids are the ones to have to build the relationship back.
Both WH and I have been sober long time, but didn't work a recovering program at all and lived in a dry drunk for many, many yrs.
WH lives with OW in their own house, in a place commonly referred to as Deliverance and won't come home because he wants to be married to something more than his best friend.
I am working Plan A, thanks to the guidance of Mimi and preparing for Plan B. She is working very hard to get me to come out and tell H I want him to come home and create a new marriage, but I am stuck on how to get that accomplished. She is being amazingly patient with me.
I just dont' know how to react if he tells me he isn't coming home. How can I walk away with my head held high and dignity and not cry when my heart will be broken.
You still think you may have some power over him. You still think that there is something that you can say or do to make him come home. You are not buying that he is addicted to her.
YOU ARE POWERLESS OVER HIS ADDICTION. You only have control over yourself. Plan A is not about you doing just the right thing to MAKE him come home or to MAKE HIM see the reality.
PLAN A IS ONLY ABOUT YOU. PLAN A IS ONLY ABOUT YOU. YOU demonstrating your changes to him. Then, YOU do PLAN B. GO DARK so that he will miss you. He will no longer have his friend. MBers is about YOU..working YOUR PLANS...That's the way I see it. This program is not about MAKING the WS do anything..The WS has to come to it ON HIS/HER own.
I was there, thinking I could come up with just the right thing to say or do.
You have to ACCEPT that you ARE POWERLESS over him. But you have your own PERSONAL PRIDE. And when he tells you that he will not reconcile. DON'T BE SURPRISED. You will be hurt but don't be surprised. Because HE IS IN AN ADDICTION and will have to suffer to come out of it..You see, YOU WILL HAVE TO BUY THE ADDICTION THEORY...and you can walk away feeling good about YOURSELF, knowing that YOU have done all that you can do..
I remember saying to my H early on in Recovery, "What if you leave me again?" and he said, "at least you can feel good to know that you did all you could"..it's about YOU, Queenie. It's YOUR PLAN...You having faith in yourself and GOD to pull you through...
I wish I could make it clearer for you...
But I think you have not LET GO OF FEELING THAT YOU CAN CONTROL HIM...
NEGOTIATING THE END OF THE AFFAIR IS PART OF PLAN A....Do you know what I mean by that?
Ok, I really am understanding what you are saying.
And I get that I am doing this FOR ME because it is WHAT I WANT.
No, I am not getting that negotiating is part of Plan A. Or I could even almost get it. What do I do when he says no and he will. Do I keep Plan Aing him or immediately go to Plan B.
I guess what I am trying to understand is the timing of this. Not for him, not to control him, but what is best for me. Because the LSA is not in effect yet or ready and knowing how cruel WH can be, I don't want him to stop the money if I tell him I am getting a LSA. Do you see what I am asking?
Ok, got it. My deeds are the broken record, my words are telling him I love him and want my husband, but not actually telling him to come home. At least not for a few months.
Let me just get the complete understanding of the timing of this. Should I just come out and ask him, prepare for the NO, and then keep Plan Aing him until I am ready for Plan B?
This is why I encourage reading SURVIVING AN AFFAIR. Dr. Harley can explain it better than me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
It is ONGOING throughout PLAN A...meeting his ENs and negotiating the end of the affair..The NEGOTIATION is ONGOING..in repeated conversations..Don't give up if he says NO..one time..See what I mean?
We worked together in a furniture store and I married him because his drugs were good and I had NO SELF-ESTEEM and didn't think anyone would ever want me.
Sad, but true.
The saddest part is coming to realize how much I loved him and it could be too late.
And he will go into DRAC mode...like tonight..run back into the darkness after he peeks out into the light..ask Bugsy about that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
So one last question. I just completely start inundating him with what I WANT by Plan Aing him and throwing in every chance I get that I want him to come home? REALLY?
What happens when he starts to avoid me or get mad at me?
Hey Mimi,
I really hope you know how much I appreciate the time you are giving me and that I am working so hard to make you proud and accomplish this.
Busy (and wet) day today so I just got caught up with your postings.
WOW! How awesome that you turned to the Old Testament story of Exodus and God was able to speak to you in that story to help you focus your prayers for your WH. (Plus, you have that connection to the story with your kids' names. Now that's a God thing for sure).
I think your rabbi is correct about God fighting for you, but God is fighting for you AND your marriage. You are doing great and are getting excellent advice.
If I don't get around to posting to you until the pm the next couple of days, it's because of family, baking, dogs, etc....But I will check in.
Ah, so I need to hit up Bugsy and read how she got through it, and yes see what she offers up. She is so good at that.
Actually it dawned on me that his going Drac is a good thing. And the fact that he always has to keep himself so busy is because he can't be with himself because he KNOWS he is DESTROYING HIMSELF.
And in a way, that is perfect, because when he is in a bad mood, he won't be able to take it out on me, but she will get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
LOL, You are so right. How the heck can I imagine this WH is worth it.
But I know that my HUBBY is and I am fighting for HIM. The truth is, whether he comes back or not, isn't what matters. It matters that I was willing to give it everything I HAVE to save this M and fight for our children.
Right. SO HEAD UP, CHEST OUT, and LOOK OUT. BECAUSE QUEENIE IS MOVING ON AND TAKING CONTROL FOR HERSELF, AND NO ONE ELSE.
Thanks for checking in. I miss talking to you. I'll look forward to more time after the holiday. Merry Christmas and totally enjoy your family. They are so blessed to have you.
Yes, it is cool about Exodus, I want to talk to you more about that, but at another time.
The truth is, whether he comes back or not, isn't what matters. It matters that I was willing to give it everything I HAVE to save this M and fight for our children.
Right. SO HEAD UP, CHEST OUT, and LOOK OUT. BECAUSE QUEENIE IS MOVING ON AND TAKING CONTROL FOR HERSELF, AND NO ONE ELSE.
EXACTLY!!
If I dont' check back on ya..STAY STRONG...keep moving forward...it's best to err in the direction of overdoing, IMO..than backing down at this point...since he offers you minimal contact with him...
But just looking at his ACTIONS, he is initiating more contact with you, isn't he?
Growing stronger and learning everyday that what she WANTS, SHE CAN GO AFTER AND GET.
Yes, I am THE ONE WITH THE PLAN, so look out HUBBY. I'm coming to get you and bring you home. In G-ds time, of course.
Adn you are right, what does it matter if I get WH mad at me, I can't stand him anyways. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She can deal with that, thank you very much.
You are truly one patient woman.
Merry Christmas, Mimi. Have an awesome time with your husband. I'll be praying it's a holiday that you will forever cherish.
You KNOW the answer to the question you pose above, just think about it. I always say, think back to when you 2 first met. What 'worked' then? To what did he respond the MOST during that time? There is your answer.
Also, you got the right idea in your exchanges with Mimi. It's about what YOU are wanting to do. Heck with WS getting upset or angry. In fact, count on it. He knows he's wrong and will lash out at you when you make yourself the MOST ATTRACTIVE choice.
Even in his fogged out, addicted brain, deep down he KNOWS it's crazy to choose anything except the beautiful, wonderful, attractive, fabulous, Goddess Queenie, mother of his children, and WIFE who is doing ALL she can CONSISTENTLY to show the changes HE wants & needs for a lifetime of happiness!!
The only part that confuses me, and maybe I am still a little slow, really having trouble sleeping tonight. I have almost read the whole SAA book, but it says not to upset your spouse.
Isn't that what I am doing by doing what I want to do in my Plan. Or, the book calls him my spouse, not my WS and that's the difference?
"MY" interpretation of 'not upsetting your spouse' means that you don't over talk about the relationship, and most importantly, no Love Busters.
Stating your love for him, the desire to recover your marriage are simply TRUTHS and FACTS. You are being open and honest with him,,,,not playing games.
There's another great thread I'll go find and link for you. It's about being the LightHouse in the fog for your WH to return home and to be your H again.
A big part of Plan A is standing for your M when they are not, AND through the MB principals, letting them know that there IS a path back to a BETTER M than what you had before.
Bugs asked me to send this out for people to read and get input.
I wanted to send this to my H in an email.
How would you feel about giving me the opportunity to explain some of the marriage principles I have been learning to create a brand new fulfilling marriage beyond our wildest imaginations that is totally and completely blessed by G-d?
SG... congrats on your Skins. We'll see you next week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
About the email. No. Definitely not. You cannot "educate" your WH. I don't think Mimi meant that you need to introduce conversations about the road back to recovery RIGHT NOW or even all at once. It's breadcrumbs... remember? Little comments that open doors for bigger conversations. You can't just hit him with it because he won't be receptive. Remember this is WH... not DH.
I know you want to "DO" something and MAKE THIS HAPPEN but it takes time sweetie. You're doing a GREAT job. When you get the itch to FIX THINGS, get on your knees and give it back to God.
Sit back and lean on Him. Take a breath. He loves you.
Did he like to get cards from you were dating? Did he want you to tell him what you wanted? What kind of flirting did he like?
I'm thinking of a simple card to hand to him.
H, I want you to come home. I have been working hard to become an amazing wife for you. There is a bright future for our family, but you need to come home to experience it.
Hey PM, It was a nice game to watch. I will see you next week. We have to win to get to the playoffs.
Chrysalis,
When we were dating, we only had DRUGS in our life. I don't REMEMBER what we did back then because we were ALWAYS HIGH.
I know I sent him alot of love letters and he sent them to me. I still have them all.
He played mind games with me for so long and would say this would make him happy, and I would do it, but it really didn't, so then I would try something else.
All I ever wanted to do was make him happy and love him with all my heart and without the games.
I'll take any suggestions on how to figure out what would work best. He takes in everything I do. Whether it be email, ecard, phone message or in person. He is ALWAYS watching to see what I am doing. BUT the WH is way too strong and refuses to allow anything in.
When he expresses a desire to come home, you will need to know what your boundaries are. Complete NC with OW, for starters. It will be your turn to set the bar high and expect him to reach it.
Now I have a sensitive question for you.
Do you think there is any chance he might be using again?
Please don't ever stop yourself from asking any kind of question. This experience has humbled me to the ground. Literally. I have no ego left whatsoever.
I honestly HAVE NO way of REALLY knowing anymore. If I can remember back so many years when he used, he was so self-destructive like he is now. But there is such an edge of superiority in him and self-righteousness that I just don't know.
I will say last Friday when I asked him what his birthday was, he said he didn't care. It didn't matter to him and he started shuffling papers really quickly. I noticed it immediately. Does that mean he is using, no. It does mean something, but only G-d knows.
There is no doubt in my mind he is in an active addiction. And it truly scares me that with her being an addict and he refers to her that way, the chances could happen. But then there is the self-righteousness and holier than thou attitude and his pride that he has over 18 years sobriety. However, as everyone on HERE knows. His behaviors right now are as destructive as any other kind of addiction and if he hits a truly low point, who knows what could have happened or may happen. I kinda hope for it in a way. Maybe that will get him back into AA.
It is truly sad. There is NO ONE in his life, NO ONE who cares enough about him to ask him what he is really doing? They just say, we don't really KNOW WH and he is making the biggest mistake of his life. I am his ONLY ADVOCATE for the good that exists. I pray to G-d that is enough to bring him back home.
Do you HONESTLY believe he will want to come HOME one day. Why would he? He has a new relationship and can escape the realties of life. I CAN'T possibly offer him an escape. I am the WIFE and the MOTHER of HIS KIDS. I will always be the reality.
James,
I need prayers right now. People on here understand how absolutely crippling these emotions can be. I am FIGHTING as hard as I can to keep on going. I AM.
I am shaking my head and telling the voices to get AWAY from me, I'm SCREAMING at satan to leave me alone, but I can't stop the tears of sadness.
Christmas was a time for our family to hibernate from this holiday. We were a FAMILY and this year, not only is my H gone, but my daughter is gone for the first time as well and I my boys are complaining their bored.
So for any of you who are out there reading this and you are in this pain, my heart goes out to you and I want you to know you are in my prayers and wishes for your dreams to come true.
James you are in my prayers and thoughts and I wish you the Merriest of Christmas'. You and I are walking such the same path and for you the pain of the kids can only be worse.
I'm here and in pain with you. I, like you, am not sure that my WH will ever be back.
I think that your chances are better than mine though because you have the children, and your OW is definitely more of a loser than mine. I just don't see how your WH's A can survive that kind of environment too long. Your WH's affair has to survive two sets of kids, the financial strain, her addiction and disease. Think about it - that's a whole lot of baggage to overcome.
Let's hang together tonight then and help each other through this. I am making dinner back and forth, but would you like to?
OW's children are grown, they aren't a pull at all, except just as sick as their momma.
Thanks for the encouragement. It is a whole lot of baggage to overcome, however WH is one stubborn man. And it's the stubborness and the addiction that scares me so.
Even though OW's kids are grown, it sounds like they are all very high maintenance. Any 19 year old that has 3 kids has to be a problem child.
Look at it this way. When you and your H married, you came into the R with no baggage. You had the kids and managed to raise them over 24 years. You made it though a lot of rough times with sickness, school work, house work and all of the stuff that goes with being M. You did this over 24 years. It was only you, your H and the kids to worry about. There were no X spouses, step kids, etc. to worry with. Wasn't M hard enough without all of that stuff?
Now the situation is different. Your WH is in a relationship where there are "step" children (I know, they aren't M, but I don't know what else to call them) with issues, grand kids running around, I assume that she has an X or two somewhere, her addiction issues, her illness, not to mention the financial drain of supporting two families, and who knows what else. I just see no way that a R with all of those issues can survive long term.
Sounds like you have done a wonderful Plan A, and when you go to Plan B, he will realize what you have provided.
Patience is not one of my strong points, but I'm going to advise you to have it. Your chances are very good. I guess the wild card is that your H has prior addiction issues. It is definitely not good for him to be in that environment. But, if he does follow her down that path, it's only going to hasten the demise of that R.
Hi Skins, I don't do traditional quilting, but I love to crazy quilt. I have a Viking Designer that I love, but don't use very often for embroidery. I guess that makes sense, right? lol Spend all of that money to use it for only straight sewing. Duh.
Anyway, I've been decorating the condo. I have a cathedral ceiling in the LR area with a palladian window over the patio door, then 2 windows on each side of that. I painted that wall a salmon pink (yes, very girlie), so I bought pink and yellow stripe fabric to recover my two loveseats, and a plain pinkish fabric to do a round table cover. I'm having the loveseats recovered, but I'm doing the table cover myself. I can make the slipcovers, but it's a time constraint thing. This was probably TMI, but it is therapy for me to talk about my little condo.
I love hearing about your condo. Did you buy it alone? Keep the info coming.
The crabs actually were pretty good. I am a lover of blue crabs from MD, actually grew up on them, but Dungeness are better than nothing. My boys enjoyed them.
Have a toast of chai on us and everyone else on here tonight who are recovering, happy and most of all hurting.
Do you think next year at this time we will be able to offer support to the newbies on here who are hurting?
The other piece that keeps getting missed in this is WH has NO relationship with his children. NONE. He sometimes talks to my DD, but she is the ONLY other person sees the complete difference in him. As she says, he's not DAD anymore.
As for the boys, it's my MS's Senior year and he hasn't asked me once about what is going on with graduation. NOTHING. And the YS, he hasn't emailed him since 12-6-07 because he didn't get a response from YS. And yet it is YS's fault.
Do you think that this is also to the better in my sitch or just makes it worse?
I like girlie stuff, in fact the woman who I am very close to at work, who used to have my job and now has my old job and I have her job, told me when I first started almost 9 years ago, We will NEVER be friends. You like cutsy, cutsie and I detest cutsie.
She has been retired for 3 years, but I asked her to come back for a year and work beside me and this year for Christmas she got me a sign that said something like Good Friends are the Gift of Life.
This is a MIRACLE... so maybe there is hope for H and me.
When I first worked with this woman, she was so mean to me that I had to figure out a way to survive. One of the smartest things I learned was to take an interest in what she liked and began quilting. She NEVER thought I would keep to it and I have and love it.
Well, yes I bought it alone. Everything happened so fast. Our house had been for sale for two years and wasn't selling. Back in Sept. I found out that WH had lied again and was back in OPs state, so I went into Plan B. At that point we had at least 3 false recoveries and I had had enough. I filed for LS because I knew that he was running up debt and giving her money. At that point, I figured I better go back to work (I own a retail store that couldn't support me) because I wasn't sure what was going to happen. Anyway the house listing contract was due to expire when a last minute offer came in. WH didn't want to sell, but I had been there alone in a very secluded spot for 3 years, so I told him that I would force the sale. He finally agreed but became very hostile after that, blaming me for everything. The buyers wanted us out almost immediately, so when WH told me that he didn't want to be M anymore and never wanted to speak to me again, I bought the condo. I knew that I needed a nice place to come home to at night, and it made sense to buy instead of rent.
My WH left town and really doesn't communicate with our DD either. I feel bad for her and your children. Why a lot of men run away from their kids is a mystery to me.
Well, I hope that we can both offer assistance to newbies next year -- one way or the other. I'll be like Believer offering assistance for personal recovery, and I hope that you will be able to offer assistance on marital recovery. I honestly believe that your WH's A has no chance of long term survival. Waaay toooo much baggage.
There is hope for you. I believe that you need to boost your self esteem. I think that as BS's, our self esteem is damaged. But, we are both good women and need to give ourselves credit. Our WH's are missing out on having the most wonderful of M.
In all fairness to H, this was never his problem, but clearly mine and I need personal recovery as much as marital recovery. In fact, one won't happen without the other. So, how can someone boost their self-esteem. To most people that seems obvious, to me, its a mountain of the highest proportion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My sponsor told me today that I have a huge loving heart, capable of loving a million people. And it's true, and I have SO many people in my life who love me. How can I get stuck on ONE MAN who rejected me. Care to take a shot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I like what you honestly believe. Care to guess what long term is. They started the affair in April or May of 06 and D-day was May 07? They have been living together ever since, albeit some unbelievable craziness that just amazes me.
In fact, WH always said "our" life was chaotic, however since the day he left, our life has no more chaos in it. Where he is always doing this or that, crisis here or there. And he blames me for it. Among other things.
Ah, addicted mind. I wish I could watch it work on a computer screen. It would help immensely.
Well skins, building back my self esteem has not been easy. I think the thing that got me on the way was my new job. I owned (still own actually) a retail store, which was supposed to be a retirement thing for us, however sales have been down. Then when this happened, I checked out for a few months. I just couldn't function well, and I let the store go downhill. After WH kept lying, sneaking around, not coming home etc., I realized that I had better get a job back in the corporate world. I called a few people that I worked with, floated my resume, and had an offer within two weeks. And after being out of corporate for almost 4 years, I got an offer making about 30% more than WH. That right there boosted my self esteem by truck loads. Just to know that I was still respected enough to get an offer almost immediately. Also, a circle of friends helped so much. Girlfriends are priceless. Mine were there for me the whole time.
I think that you just have to believe in yourself. You have a job, you have all of those people who love you, you have your wonderful children, you have a talent (quilting), and you sound very loving. I'm not sure why you say that this is about you. It was your WH's choice to do what he did, just as it was my WH's choice. Rejection by anyone is never easy, and I think that the rejection from the person who we believed in the most is the hardest to handle.
I don't know. If I had all of the answers I wouldn't be here posting. All I know is that you can't control the WS or make them do anything. I found that out the hard way. I tried too long and it nearly drove me insane. Honestly, being in Plan B has helped me more than anything. I no longer have to wonder if he is with her - I know he is. I no longer have to snoop - I know what I'll find. I just got to a point that I couldn't fight it anymore.
And don't get too wound up in his blaming you. I found that it is part of the script. When we sold the house, that gave my WH the thing that he needed to turn this all around and blame me. It was my fault that we lost so much money, my fault for this, for that etc. They have to do that so that they can justify what they're doing. Sometimes you don't see it until you step back.
Wow. You have only been here since October 17. I am impressed by your understanding. What a great post. Thank you.
You know, it's not that I just have a job, I am the head secretary of an elementary school. I run the place and know EVERYONE. And I touch their lives because I care about them. I am PTA President, I sit on a board position at the district level for Women of Reform Judaism, I sit on the lacrosse board and because of my situation and all the years I have put in volunteering they are scholarshiping my two kids to play this year because they care about us. I am OVERWHELMED by the love and support of EVERYONE, in my life. Truly I am blessed.
If you would have asked me a year ago about a divorce, EVERYONE would have thought I was the stronger one and would walk away because I was so unhappy in my M. And yet, when it comes right down to it, I love my H more than words to express it are possible. I just didn't express it to him enough. I believe one day, I will get that chance.
This has been a miracle day for me in personal growth. Truly the depth of sadness inside of me is beyond description not to mention the desire for living was going. Earlier today my sponsor was so frustrated with me because I said my relationship with my H is more important than my children. I was so embarrased by what she was saying, but it was the truth. I don't want to LIVE my life WITHOUT him. This goes back to the M my parents had where it was my parents against me and my sister and oh did we suffer from it. So, I made my kids as important as my H. But it has cost me dearly.
Regardless, My boys were very restless tonight so we went to see the Golden Compass. The movie people ask you to turn off cell phones and don't text. I told my YS to not do it during the movie and during it of course he did. I told him to stop, he didn't. He got up and moved to the farthest seat in the row. G-d gave me strength to get up, walk over to him and insist that he give me the cell phone. He wasn't going to, but I stood my ground and he did. I walked back to my seat and watched the rest of the movie. That was a huge step for me.
A little later on it really hit me AGAIN, I am truly in a spiritual battle for my H's soul and spirit right now. I don't want it, and honestly, I don't know if I am strong enough for this. I really don't. But here I am and G-d believes in me, and I am NOT going to let G-d down. But, the pain, oh my g-d is killing me tonight, the sadness is consuming me. And I know you ALL understand it. It's what brings us closer to each other on here and helps us to walk through it because we share it with each other and care.
All the while, CHEST OUT, HEAD UP, and I am fighting for my M and keeping FAITH I will survive this - somehow G-ds way.
When that recommitment happened in my mind, the most amazing blessing happened. Earlier tonight I suggested to my boys as a way of getting them out of here to go and look at Christmas lights. As you can imagine, Jewish boys don't think that's so cool, especially angry ones.
But on the way home, my MS was driving and do you know what he did? He took us around developments to look at the Christmas lights. I can't stop crying from the joy of those boys who were created from the love of my H and me. And they are AMAZING children. Our love gave life to the children, and we nurtured them together, and if WH is so STUPID as to walk out on THEM, I promise G-d, myself, those children and everyone in my life, I will NOT GIVE UP.
I will FIGHT THROUGH FAITH AND BELIEF, that G-d will turn this into good and my children and I will come out of this whole people. I don't know how, but we will. And I will keep the FAITH ALIVE, that my H will come home one day and we will create a new M. One that is created from G-d's foundation and worked with MB principles.
So, please let's all keep praying for G-d to reach my H and bring him home in G-ds time. And let me pray for the stamina, strength, and every other quality that I am going to need to get through this for G-d.
And with that I say AMEN. Merry Christmas to all of you. It seems so stupid to say this, but I love you all deeply and carry your pain in my hearts as my own so that your burden is made just a little lighter.
Luna wrote a really long post on her thread for me. Thanks Luna.
Something clicked in my mind that I am working through. Lots of times I struggle with the alienation idea of my H although there CAN BE NO OTHER explanation for what he has become.
In thinking about that, I remembered when my mother was dying. I became her hospice caregiver. She suffered through a VERY LONG and PAINFUL death. At the time I had a very close friend who was suffering through the late stages of alzheimers. Both of these people had become someone not recognizable. And honestly, if my mom and this friend had truly understand what they had become it would have killed them. But THEY DIDN'T. They had no CLUE. The looked somewhat the same, but it wasn't them anymore.
THIS IS THE WAYWARD. Their shell of a body may be the same, but they are NO LONGER OUR SPOUSES. They are someone we can't recognize and it HURTS terribly to watch it happen. BUT IT IS, and for me, the STRENGTH comes from G-d and BELIEVING, that my H inside still lives and will fight it's way through.
Unfortunately when someone is in the advanced stages of Alzheimers, you need to let them go and be put somewhere that they can be taken care of, because you can't handle this person anymore.
There is NO WAY I can take care of or even handle this monster of mine, he is TOO FAR GONE. And I fight to let go and let G-d have him, because even though there may be not cure for Alzheimers, there is a cure or treatment for WS. And that treatment is available to him but in G-ds time and G-ds hands.
Being an addict you would think I would get this concept of the addiction down. Something that is essential to my personal recovery, and once it becomes in sync w/ my heart and my mind, I am on my way. Right Mimi?
I am sure many of you are laughing at how I come to think of things, it just helps to reword it and come to peace with what I am learning so I can move forward on my path to personal recovery.
On a good note and here's where I could take some suggestions. I am designing a quilt for this journey. I am looking for some suggestions on what kinds of blocks I could make. Some of the ideas I have come up with are - a lighthouse, Psalm 23 (for sure), Moses, my children, my Judiasm. Oh, I can make a friendship block in honor of all the friends I am making on here. Suggestions?
I hope everyone is having a nice Christmas morning.
The quilt sounds like a nice idea. I have a treasured quilt from my son's grandmother. It is made of the old clothes that my son' dad, uncle and aunt used to wear. It sounds ugly, but it is BEAUTIFUL.
I always liken affairs to the "Body Snatchers" movie. You might be too young to remember that one. But after the body snatchers invaded, the person looked the same and talked the same, but the real person was not there anymore.
That's how my ex was. It took me months and months of anguish to even figure out what was happening in my life. And when I did, he continued denying it for months and months more. And he was so COLD. There was nothing left in his eyes. It was CREEPY.
I'll have to get that movie and watch it. I am sure reinforcement of understanding is good. Especially for me. Or then again, maybe I have to stop trying to understand what isn't understandable, but just is and TRUST G-d. There a novel approach. LOL
I actually have clothes set aside to make each of my children quilts for them. I might work on those as well as someday is here now since I have two adult children.
The eyes, the place to their soul. This just reminded me of a time when I was pouring my guts out to my H explaining that him withholding SF was killing me inside and I didn't understand what was happening. I clearly remember thinking at the time, what is going on inside of you, your eyes are glazed over.
Whenever I DEAL with the WH face to face, it's that GLAZED OVER, look I get that CLEARLY reminds me of that night in bed with him. WH's eyes are cloudy, cold and CREEPY.
MY H's nickname for me was Bright Eyes. My eyes are bright, full of HURT, DEEP HURT, but full of LOVE, HOPE AND FAITH. My eyes to my SOUL are clear and being filled up with STRENGTH AND DEVELOPING CHARACTER.
Yes, I believe that God can touch your H and bring him home. And I am so touched by the truth and love and light I see in your posts. You are the real deal.
And you are a quilter! Me, too, though I have not touched it in the last year or so. I have a king size that needs to be quilted but I have to re-do the sandwich, a little-girl quilt I want to add some appliqués to, and a wall hanging that goes with the king size that needs binding. And they have all sat for more than a year, untouched. My style is pretty out there-- wild colors, design on the fly. I'm not the most gifted quilter, by far. And I "owe" 3 more little-kid quilts, promised but not started yet.
When my DD20 went away to college I put all my sewing stuff in her room but I have not yet got it arranged so I can work comfortably in there. Too many boxes of "stash!"
I was actually around before Oct. under another name. My other name was too descriptive of me. I might as well have used my real name. I thought that I should lay low for a little while and come back under another name which wasn't such a givaway.
See, you have absolutely no reason to have such low self esteem. Look at you - you are very accomplished and highly regarded in your job and community, so don't let WH make you feel less than what you are!! He is the one with the issues, not you. And you ARE the stonger one. It goes with our gender I believe. Women deal with emotional issues much better than men. Sorry guys, but I think it's true in most cases.
Skins, I bought The Secret yesterday and have already read most of it. As of today, I decided to make more changes in my life and follow the concepts in the book. As I look back, I think that there is some validity to this. Negative energy does attract negative energy. My outlook as of today is going to be nothing but positive. I am going to be happy, enjoy life, and do the things that I believe are right and things that make me happy. Get the book. If we keep thinking that our WHs will never come back, they won't.
The quilt is a great idea. I sew, knit, crochet, etc. I think that you gave me an idea. I may do a knitted afghan out of blocks that I will dedicate to all those here who have helped me through the tough times. I'll have a Believer block, WofF5 block, etc. You get my drift. Coming up with a design for each will be a challenge - excpet a block for you - skins should be an easy one. What are the team colors anyway???
Thank you, for what you said about me. I don't know how people who go through this can't be the real deal. I'm just speaking from my heart which hurts, BUT we are working on FILLING IT UP AND GETTING IT READY FOR MY BLESSINGS, right? Please keep the prayers coming for him. He needs it MORE than me. I already live with G-d. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Why haven't you touched your quilting in over a year? Can I encourage you? No I haven't made him a memory quilt. I made a quilt for our bed but could never afford to get it quilted. He always said other people were more important. That wasn't true. I was just broke.
And then for our anniversary last year I found the perfect picture of Eagle (he loves them so), it was my first official applique job, only it never got finished and I didn't feel like it. Memory quilt, how could I make it?
Chai,
Ok that explains all the KNOWDLEDGE and WISDOM. The colors are burdundy and gold. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are so right, this negative energy is destructive, we can HELP EACH OTHER, as MIMI says - SHAKES IT RIGHT OUT OF OUR HEAD.
Have you ever done your own machine quilting? It is not hard. Do you make your quilts by hand or machine?
I do want to get back to quilting and other creative things. D-days really took the energy out of me in so many ways, but now I am getting strong enough to be creative again.
I did not touch it because I was emotionally tired and because there were so many other things keeping me busy. Not a very good excuse. But I am on the mend.
That's how my ex was. It took me months and months of anguish to even figure out what was happening in my life. And when I did, he continued denying it for months and months more. And he was so COLD. There was nothing left in his eyes. It was CREEPY.
Yep. This took me a while to figure out, too.
The sooner you can figure out the difference between your Wayward Husband and your Husband, the less tortured you will be.
I completely understand. I couldn't even look at my machine, nonetheless start sewing again. It was after I made the Santa outfit that I starting thinking I could again.
I do machine quilting. I have done the actually quilting on a few quilts, but the one I made for my H is huge and it's very special so I wanted to save money to have a professional do it.
SD, I totally know when I am speaking to one of the other. I learned that right from the beginning. What I don't know is how to reach my H when the WH is so strong.
Heya SG.. been keeping up with things, just haven't had much in the way of things to offer. I just wanted to drop in here and let you know that I'm still here and listening.
Now you're starting to teach me things.. your thoughts on the WS vs S.. It's something I've too come to terms with, but dealing with it.. well.. it's odd, because it seems they can shuffle between the two effortlessly.. the moment I think I'm dealing with W.. suddenly WW appears.. it's nuts, but that's also where our lack of expectation in our Plan A protects us..
Our faith is our shield.. God is with us, whom should we fear?
I'm glad your around. It truly helps. I keep checking in on you too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have to admit, that came easy to me. Almost from the start. I don't know why, probably the only thing that came easy. I'll take it though.
It's in the eyes, in its the words he uses with him, it's in his attitude, how he tilts his head up and down. But the eyes. The eyes are a give away to his soul and more often than not, that soul is black and hollow.
I don't give myself compliments too often. But my eyes, are my best feature and its in my eyes you can see the brightness of my love for my H and the hope and faith I will survive one day. Not today, I just have to get through today, but one day.
My daughter saw the emptiness inside my eyes today and it scared her. She emailed me asking me to not keep loving dad, give him to G-d and believe that I can live a life without him.
I'm sorry I scared her, but she is very smart. I told her so and thanked her for waking me up. I was always such a fighter. Ah, this too shall pass. And one day, it will be ok. I absolutely know it.
I'd have to say I've always been extremely strong,,,,,until now. Before I had my BabyBugs, I was been know as the woman who will kick a$$ and take names - - No prisoners.
Always fair. Always on the side of giving everyone a good chance,,,,,,,,,,,but if you intentionally crossed me and didn't show remorse, then you were DONE for! LOL!!
The truth is that was the "world view" of me, but never MY view of myself. Through this last year I have come to truly recognize my vunerabilities as well as to give myself credit for my strengths. It's a sometimes very difficult process and balancing act, but I think I'm getting better at it.
So much I have learned,,, so much more I CAN learn.
How about you? What affirmations do you find work best for you?
I think my capacity to love, no matter how much you hurt me is my strongest quality.
It absolutely astounds people that I can still LOVE my H as much as I do and completely forgive him for everything.
The anger inside me, just doesn't live there as before. I have my moments, but then I look at how much I love my H and I just look at the bigger picture.
What have I learned. I have learned that I love my husband more than life itself. I am not saying that is good, just what is. I an learning that somehow I am going to have to find the path to personal recovery. As my wise Rabbi said, B, you are a tough old bird, and need to become rock solid strong. He guarantees my H will crash and burn and need me in the end.
I have learned that even though I am well respected in the community and well known, it doesn't mean anything if my family suffered for it.
But what I have learned MOST - is that G-d is my life. He is what brings me HOPE, FAITH, and GIVES ME SPIRIT AND STRENGTH to get out of bed and keep going. If it weren't for my growing daily relationship with him, I would be DEAD.
G-d is working something unbelievable in me, because the pain and depth of despair is so deep. One day, I have to believe I will be on the other side and he will use me for his purposes so I can bring hope to someone else.
Corny I know, but all this has to be for something.
What's your favorite champagne? Before I gave up drinking and using, I would drink Boones Farm. They didn't have wine coolers and the items they have today. I got CHEATED. LOL
NOTHING corny about ANY of what you said. It's beautiful, in fact. Don't discount yourself that way. You stated truths about yourself and your beliefs. Those are beautiful things!!
and YES, oh YES all of this IS for something. God DOES have a plan for each and every one of us. Being open to allow him to lead us down that path is a GIFT and a Blessing. Glad you have received that!! I am in the very same place. Waiting with open arms to know and hopefully understand what that plan is for me.
My favorite champagne,,,,,,,,of course, Goddess Style,,Dom Perignon. Can't afford that. Drac & I had a tradition of having it every year for New Year's Eve. Last year we had a bottle left in the box,,,,,,,,,,I found out he came and TOOK it while I was out of the house one day. Guess he & the HO enjoyed it. That HURT bad.
These days, it's usually Chandon. Drac took me on a surprise birthday trip to Napa. Something I always wanted to do. We signed up for their 'club' so I get shipments 4x a year from there. I wish I'd been more appropriately appreciative of that trip,,,,,,,
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,how long clean and sober for you?
I have been clean and sober over 20 years. My b-day is 4-23-87.
My H went through a drug treatment program and I think I actually got sober for him because he would have NEVER made it otherwise. He went back out and used a year or so later, but had been clean and sober and still is, though I really have to wonder.
He is defintely in an active addiction in this relationship.
My drug of choice was pot. This past week I was at a community meeting where they were passing it around and I swear I could have pocketed it and taken it home to smoke.
This is the one part I wish I could find some relief from the feelings. I'm jealous you can drink. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sorry, I am not familiar with her sitch. I have had limited time here and frankly, don't keep up with a whole lot of folks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Good for you on your 20 years! yes, WH is going thru an addiction now,,,,,,,the good news is that having battled through others he does, deep down, know what it takes to "beat it" so to speak. When the time comes, you both know he can do it.
I've never been one for anything other than the 'drink'. Pot made me paranoid and I was always afraid that I'd like coke too much, so it kept me from even trying it one time. I have family members who have fought various addictions. I lost my nephew (23yrs old) this last spring. He'd beaten pot and pills after a very HARD struggle. Was turning his life totally around. Had a car accident. Long sordid tale that you can read for yourself going back on my thread to May of this year.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,the fact that you were somewhere that it was being passed around and you admit to the vunerability yet you passed it up?? Goddess Strength and Power there!! You got it!!
H peeked out for a second I think tonight. We have kinda been talking on and off today through messaging. Not in person. I don't have a desire to talk to him and deal with WH.
I started it off by saying, Oh Darn, I missed you. I wanted to tell you of a miracle.
He replied: Ok, What miracle.
Then he wrote that it was snowing. I could tell he was excited. He really does love the snow.
I replied: I love watching your face when it snows. Such excitement. It's snowing here too.
Then he replied. No more snow, but no rain either
I have left a few messages, gone to his game, he wasn't there and emailed him. This is the first time he has responded and it's been twice.
No expectations, but I really think that sometimes I can just keep reaching my H for few moments.
So, I left another message. me: hey there, it was so funny, when we came out of the movies - we went to see National Treasure (awesome), anyways, we were running towards the car and I made the silly comment, it looks like it's snowing. The boys are like, mom it IS snowing. They had the best time laughing at me. Just like you used to.
Will see if he responds.
I've also thought of a few other memories that I can tell him about that will really bring up good times. Times when we were younger and so in love. It's funny, I had forgotten how much in love we were in the beginning and how good we were together.
I'm a little surprise he responded to me saying "I love watching your face when it snows. Such excitement. It's snowing here too."
Ok, I don't really want to pray for patience, so what would be a quality that is similar, but won't keep giving me circumstances where I need to be patient.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,the fact that you were somewhere that it was being passed around and you admit to the vunerability yet you passed it up?? Goddess Strength and Power there!! You got it!!
NOT AT ALL! I am NOT kidding when I say, if I were to drink or use I would DIE. There is no MIDDLE for me. I just didn't want to die that bad that night and I was around friends and my community.
My H's drug of choice was Coke. I find it interesting how his OW is a crack addict. The values that go by the waste side are so similar to the Affair Addiction. Maybe not as physically harmful. But in his case, she has hep C. He could truly die from this.
I have to wonder if celebrating Christmas this year is weird to him. He hasn't had a tree in almost 18 years and he converted to Judaism and takes it seriously.
Think that in a way, today could be getting to him because he is celebrating it as a holiday and for him it's NOT a holiday and he didn't have his children at all.
So great for YOU to recognize you are an IN or OUT person and then consistently choose to be OUT of that. To KNOW that it is a do or die.
Again, amazing strength I see in you. And again, don't DISCOUNT this strength!! Sweetie, we BOTH know too, too, too many people who are overtaken by the addiction. Those who KNOW it's abstain or DIE, but can NOT say NO.
And, how sad about WH who is CHOOSING to ignore what he KNOWS is so damaging. The whole 'flirting with disaster' theme isn't unusual to WSs.
I am about exhausted,,,,,,,,,FINALLY. I am going to the tub for that nice bath and then to bed. Sleep well.
I totally agree with that philosophy and fortunately, knowing which one is which comes extremely naturally to me.
My MS was a child who literally had a switch that turned off and on to Mr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I learned to figure this out and work with it. I bet that was my training for this monster.
I just wish I could access H anytime I wanted. That would be so much easier. BUT WH is the one in control, not me.
I will take your complement with a heartfelt thank you. And you are right, if ever there was a reason to drink or use, this would have been it. It's by G-ds grace that I found my butt back into AA and recovery.
Yes it is SAD he is CHOOSING to destroy his life. He BLAMES me for sure, but that's his problem. I am only taking what blame I own. He chose to leave, I certainly didn't ask him to and have always asked him to come home.
I"m glad you are getting exhausted. Sleep well, special person. Talk to you soon.
Darn it,,,, was headed to the tub but gotta comment on this.
This is NOT where your focus should be! YOU are in control of what you can control. There is no controlling the WS,,,,, but you DO control YOU. THAT is where your focus should be. On YOU controlling YOU.
NO EXPECTATIONS of WS. NO controlling WS. Doing what you need to do for YOU and standing for your M.
I thought I'd drop back in before bed.. looks like you're in the best of hands with Bugsy here.. I've got mad amounts of respect for one of my personal heroes here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It'd be easy to take this quote the wrong way, but getting to how God is working miraculously in growing us through suffering.. I came across this quote that I have in my motivationals.. for good reason:
"When it is all over you will not regret having suffered; rather you will regret having suffered so little, and suffered that little so badly." St. Sebastian Valfre
Keeps me going at least.. hope it gives you a hand up too.
G-d can be so good and generous. He is watching over us James, he really is. He knows we are suffering.
My newer rabbi got my analogy about Pharoah being the WH and me wanting Pharaoh to let me H go. My rabbi made the comment that she thought G-d was fighting as hard for me and I am fighting for m M.
She thinks that I can let my H go and be ok, she doesn't understand my stand for my M. But, she also knows that at one time in my life, I could not FACE G-d and now I can say the prayer - The soul you have given me, O G-d is a pure one.
Now I can face G-d and receive his blessings. That is something that this horrible situation has brought me. And for that I am grateful.
Well for sure I had the WH. BUT it didn't matter, my H was trying to fight for a peak.
He jumped up when he realized I was there. He is super busy at work today and I didn't want to keep him too much.
He was very uncomfortable with me, I could tell because I looked very sharp and it was so obvious I was wearing his wedding ring around my neck encircled in the Moses holding the ten commandments charm. I actually wear that all the time now. And he has noticed on and off, but my shirt was very different than what he is used to me wearing.
Ah the blessings of losing 79 1/4 lbs. He bragged about their 3 inches of snow. I refuse to give him lip service when he talks about them as "we" and "us". I turn it around to us or let the moment pass, which can be very uncomfortable.
He asked me what I was up to today. I told him that I specifically came down to see him and that I had errands and stuff to run. He was checking to make sure I am off for the week. Little does he know that I will be visiting him each day for some reason.
I asked him if he had time to come over this weekend to work on the car. He said probably during the week, but I don't WANT him to. So I said hmm, it would be easier for me if it was this weekend, will that work? He said he thought so. I want to TAKE TIME away from HER. I hope G-d will give me that chance and have him come over.
I gave him a hug because he was antsy to get back to work and really uncomfortable with me. I also whispered in his ear I loved him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Then I left and went to his car and left a note thanking him for remembering to bring the camera that I wanted. I really appreciated him remembering me.
I then wrote, I would love to go play in the snow with my husband and make snow angels.
Oh, I started off by saying Hey R. And signed it Mrs. R.
He'll get it when he leaves.
I called him about 15 minutes later and asked him about why he was working where he was working. And then thanked him again for remembering the camera for me. I really appreciated his thoughtfulness.
I asked him a job related question which he answered. The only down part was that he is taking next Monday off. Remember New Year's is my anniversary and I wanted to go visit him on Monday before it. I'll just have to pray and be more creative. It hurts horribly that we won't be together, we used to walk around town and go shopping and brag that our anniversary was Jan. 1.
You have this down to an art form don't you? Sounds like a very good plan A in effect. Did he mention anything about how you looked, or did his body language give him away?
About next Monday, might he "need" the camera? It seems like this camera holds a key to keeping you in the loop. Do you think that he is also using it for this same purpose... the H that is?
This camera means something to him. I just haven't figured it out. It's like the only thing he can control because he knows I use it to take pictures of our kids. But when he wants it, it becomes very important for him to HAVE it. Got any ideas?
I don't have him down to an art form. I just have worked very hard at praying and asking G-d to give me the clarity of mind and calm heart when dealing with him.
He NEVER says anything about how I look. BUT I can tell he is so nervous and the way he looks. You can't help but notice the difference. The closet he came was the first time I saw him and he asked why I was dressed to fancy.
Could his hold on the camera be his attepemt to hold on to you? Could it be your H's way to keep the door open? Could it be his internal fight with the monster? Whatever it is, it seems to keep you in the picture. I suspect that some of the vets will sugest that this could be his way of cake eating, so that's something else to consider.
From the stuff I read he makes it sound like this is the last camera on earth and when he needs it he needs it. It's just very strange.
I would use the camera to my advantage to meet with him on your anniversary, figure out a reason why he would need it.
About your dressing up... Have you considered a complete makeover. New hair, do your makeup dofferently. LOL If he's nervous when you dress up, that would knock him right off his feet.
Other than thatI think that your love for him is keeping you focused and I can't beleive that he is not taking notice.
You're doing awesome, and I look at you as a positive example on how to conduct a good Plan A. Keep it up!!!
You asked on another thread if I had any thoughts for you.
It appears you are doing an awesome Plan A, that will surely be remembered when you move into Plan B. What is your timeframe for ending Plan A and implementing Plan B? I do remember you were doing a Plan A last summer and then kind of "rebooted" it this fall. Is that correct?
I have been so impressed with your ability to keep hold of Plan A when most of us would crumble. My fear for you is that one day you may just "snap" and be done. That is what happened to me. I was doing an awesome Plan A. Then one day, I just felt done. I felt there was nothing left in me to give him any longer (thankfully, I was wrong; there was some little something deep inside waiting to be sparked.) Through that I became aware of how the love bank can completely be depleted and the account closed. My bank was in a deficit and the account was nearing being closed. If it had drug on any longer, I would have had to gone into full-blown darkness or I would have lost all love.
This is why I ask what your timeline is? How long to you intend to Plan A?
Could his hold on the camera be his attepemt to hold on to you? Could it be your H's way to keep the door open? Could it be his internal fight with the monster? Whatever it is, it seems to keep you in the picture. I suspect that some of the vets will sugest that this could be his way of cake eating, so that's something else to consider.
I want him to cake eat, so when I go into Plan B. It might make an impact on him. I have NO CLUE what is inside his H. He lives in his head and NEVER asks anyone else.
I'm all ears on how to figure out how to get to see him on my Anniversary. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for your compliments. He actually hates make up. And OW is so hard looking and where thick black eye liner. I actually do make up for brides and so when I want to, I can look like a knock out. But I know that he prefers the natural look. As for my hair, it's short and curly. I color it, but nothing I DO makes an impact or at least he doesn't say so.
SMB,
Quote
What is your timeframe for ending Plan A and implementing Plan B? I do remember you were doing a Plan A last summer and then kind of "rebooted" it this fall. Is that correct?
My timeframe is when Mimi says to switch over. I have NO CLUE when to do it. Part of it is on the LSA and having it in place. Once I go to Plan B, if that weren't in place I think he would cut off the money. I don't want to give him that chance.
Yes, you are correct. I actually did a Plan A this summer, unfortunately didn't have Mimi helping me like she is and so was kinda floundering. I make lots of progress and at one point his was coming home (false hope though). The piece that was missing was ME. I was trying to get his attention and even though I am still doing that, I am doing it because I want to.
Thanks for your concern about me doing Plan A too long. I can't imagine ever giving up on him. I am sure it's possible, but I LOVE my H to the depths that I just didn't understand. I can't give up until G-d tells me and he will let me know when it's time. Honestly, there is a part of me that almost wonders what that would FEEL like to be done. He is so SMUG in his world and just walks all over me when he can.
But I have to be honest with myself and I am so not done yet.
I did Plan A this summer from July until September and then did a mini Plan B. I will regret that I didn't write a letter and I didn't do a good Plan A for his birthday instead.
Oh well, I am learning. I am sure that Mimi will keep me on track to the timing. She has me working on the final piece I think in terms of negotiating him coming home. I am starting to be more bold about asking for what I want. Just haven't asked him to come home yet. But I am getting closer.
Do you think there is hope for him to come home from the nasty mother alien ship?
I gotta ask. It's gnawing at me. For those who know my sitch. Do you really think there is a chance that WH will end his A one day?
Or are you just preparing me for the inevitable and making sure that I will be strong enough to survive him not coming home?
I really am doing Plan Aing him for ME. But I looked on our cell phone charges and he spent almost an hour talking to her throughout the day. Could he be fighting himself or should I just stay away from this thinking? It's killing me not knowing what is happening on the other side of the street.
The Ws in my case had the A w/PBR from Aug 2000 - Aug 2003. It ended with false RO charges where we all went to court. The judge knew she was fabricating it (she came intending to play their phone conversations and a 4" binder of e-mails?!??!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ......
PBR claimed 3 pregos, tried to get me fired, tried to extort medical insurance from me (when she claimed prego 2 or 3), accused me of being a H beater, child abuser and a lesbian, called my church and left messages for the elders (in the wrong area....but still I found out), etc. The list goes on. ......
Yet we are recovering.
Can your sitch? Possibly. Depends on when he decides to stop being a WS and where you are in your journey. He may decide AFTER you decide you don't want him.
So don't plan on his coming back. Instead plan on you moving forward. This means whether he comes back or not..... you w/b ok.
That mind and heart is in sync, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Then pray for patience.
I'm really trying to move forward and no planning on him coming back. I just can't seem to get the desire to live when I think of it like that.
My whole life has been this man and counting on us growing old and raising our grandchildren together. I had a long talk with some dear friends today. They helped me realize a lot of stuff, but mostly they reinforced that it was obvious to everyone how much I loved my H.
He just lives in his head because he doesn't want to feel the feelings that are killing him inside. He is my soul mate, my best friend. I always thought that is what you want in a M.
I really am trying to accept he is gone. It's just something so unbearable to me. Does that make sense?
Yes, your feelings do make sense but only because we have been there and done that. I wish I could hug your hurt away but since that is not possible, I will continue to support you so you can get strong enough to stand up to his babble and give him back his guilt!
Somehow I just knew PBR didn't have anything to do with Bull Ridin'
Mark
She wasn't ridin' da' bull....she was full of da' bull. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Oh boy....gonna' get my mouth washed out with soap... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
So Mark, I see you've been using my sig line threads. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That's ok.... hope they help.
I gotta squeeze in the 5 stages of grieving link back in my sig line.
Is there hope? I struggle to hang on it daily, and when I am having a day of hopelessness I think of my parents who after two years my F came out of the fog and cane back. It wasn't so easy for him though because he has to court my M and regain a certain amount of trust before she would take him back. So is it possible, yes! Like the vets say though, will you still be willing by that time if it does happen.
You sound down today... remember, chin up, chest out, and do something for you today.
Almighty God my Redeemer My hiding place my safe refuge, no other name like Jesus No power can stand against You.
My feet are planted on this rock And I will not be shaken My hope it comes from You alone My Lord and my salvation
Your praise is always on my lips Your word is living in my heart And I will praise You with a new song, My soul will bless You Lord
You fill my life with greater joy Yes I delight myself in You And I will praise You with a new song, My soul will bless You, Lord
When I am weak, you make me strong When I'm poor, I know I'm rich for in the power of Your name All things are possible All things are possible All things are possible All things are possible
Down, yes a little for some things and maybe just taking another step towards acceptance.
You see, yesterday I had a conversation with a very godly man who is a close friend or at one time a mentor of my H. He explained to me how my H lives in his head and had a DEEP DEEP NEED to be always right. He creates a life around him that is small so he can be always right. And I know this to be true.
Over the years, I moved when I didn't really want to, I gave up all my friends, I gave up all my volunteer work, I lost a bunch of weight, I searched out help to change myself, I got a job after being a SAHM, I learned to become submissive and create a home where he clearly was head of teh house and I deferred to him in all matters. BUT NONE of it made him happy.
Because there are DEMONS that live inside of him and won't ALLOW him to face those deep feelings from his past. I know that he is running from his past b/c it was so awful and I am the single person that represents his past.
M H knows I LOVE HIM. My H creates emergencies, chaos, anger and situations to take away from dealing with whatever pain is inside of him. Thus the A, the ulimate betrayal, and of course he would run from me. I am WILLING to completely change and created a new M. But he doesn't want that.
He wants the dark side because it's a world where he can always be right, which is SOMETHING THAT DRIVES his life. Growing up his dad WAS LIKE THAT to the expense of my H's healthiness.
What I have come to realize is that I TRIED, and deep down inside no matter how hard my H tries to say it, he KNOWS THAT I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL. And what happened was along that way, I LOST WHO I WAS. I became a chaotic person, creating anger and situations that took me out of the one place I wanted to be, A LOVING WIFE AND MOTHER.
So, yesterday I began my journey of building back my self esteem, because undeniably, I have an ENORMOUS capacity to love not just him, but anyone else in my life that I CHOOSE to, and it doesn't take away from one to do so. I am starting with reading Og Mandino books, which they are scrolls that I can do daily.
I am learning to pick myself up and dust myself off and move forward. I am really scared that my H won't have enough strength, I really am.
And that's where G-d is needed most. I can NO LONGER do anything for my H. Am I done with Plan A, no not one bit yet. But maybe I am actually getting that I AM DOING THIS ONLY FOR ME, because it's who I really am.
Today I am stronger and and a little more peaceful about my life. And I my light of love and commitment and faith to G-d as well as the restoration of my M grows stronger because G- desires it.
The WH is fighting hard for survival. For that I have no doubt. He is calling and talking to her all day long, and where I left a little message that H would respond to, he didn't.
The positive in all this, I have G-d on my side. WH has Satan and G-d is stronger than Satan.
Not to mention, I really am a better choice. I have life, I am full of it, I love living life, I love laughing, exploring and mostly I love living life, especially with m H.
The dark side is winning my H over today, and I keep asking you all for the prayers for G-d to somehow, someway soften my H heart and have my H turn to him for truth and guidance. There is NO OTHER WAY. This is G-d's show, and I have to stay out of it and watch him do what he is going to do and when it's all said and done and my H is home. Then can we all rejoice in the glory of G-d and his strength of good and love over dark and evil.
Why PM, I just saw you were on girl. Three days babe.
LG, Are you a Skins fan? Oh yes, I am so there. I can't wait for MY Skins to come to Seattle. I am going to go and meet them at the hotel and take lots of pictures.
May the memory of Sean carry them through. This team has endured and are moving forward. This team has always been my LIGHTHOUSE, and here they are recovering from there devastation, like I am. Wow, G-d is amazing in the things he gives me.
Hail to the Redskins indeed, for the memory of Sean and the healing of that team.
Could he be intimidated by your new found strength? As far as you know is the OW wating on him night and day? Have you considered that the WH is looking to be mothered and does not want to deal with being in a respectful equal relationship? What about your H...does he think the same way?
Yes, OW is at his beck and call and waiting on him hand and foot. She doesn't work and stays at home all day long waiting for him to come home. They have no children, no responsbility. Just a life full of fun and games.
My H's Number 1 need is to feel that he is absolutely the most important person in my life and that's what I DID NOT do enough of. I tried, but it was a cup that could NEVER be filled because I CAN'T BE THE ONE TO FILL IT, ONLY G-d.
My H/WH live a life that needs to have chaos, anger and confusion so he doesn't need to feel his feelings. He has to ALWAYS, be right. That's what drives him above anything else in life. Everything he is, everything he does is to NOT FEEL the feelings that live inside him, the pain of his childhood. And to create a reality where is is ALWAYS RIGHT. That's why he doesn't let anyone in who could give him a perspective where he would be wrong. HE HAS NO ONE.
I KNOW my H better than anyone else in this world. I KNOW the horrors of his childhood and how he was hurt. That's how he became an addict alcholic, to not FEEL. He talks the talk, but there is no substance to his words. NO ACTIONS.
I am the complete opposite. I FEEL EVERYTHING. The compassion that lives inside of me is life to me. I hurt for other people, I feel their pain and try to fix it. I know his pain and I tried to fix it for him. But his games took their toll on me and drove me away. And I lost the person that I truly am. Which loves unconditionally, hates chaos, and doesn't need anger to live. It's funny, I have said this over and over again. One of WH's reason for leaving was we lived a chaotic life. Since the day he left, our house is calm and there is no anger. I get frustrated at my children, but the anger just doesn't live inside me anymore. Only love, only a deep love for my H and the will to fight for his soul's survival. Because that's what is at stake here.
His relationship with her, she isn't smart enough or know his history enough to stop the games and since she is dependent on him, and makes him feel like he is number 1, she will keep playing along. And therefore, he doesn't have to FEEL his feelings and be wrong.
That's why this is SO bigger than me. Only G-d can reach him. But I live in fear that he won't and my H who still exisits inside, way deep down will eventually die and be lost forever.
I used to visualize my H and the WH in a battle to the death for control of the same body. Once in a while, one or the other would get the upper hand. I could never tell who was going to win. That went on for two years. The only things that kept me going were knowing how much our son needs an intact home, and remembering how wonderful my real H had been.
I do think your H can come home, but not until he breaks it off with her and starts NC.
He has that choice. You don't get to make it, and it isn't fair. But you are going to be wonderful and have a blessed life no matter what he chooses.
Yes, I absolutely believe God can bring him home. But you only get to work on you right now, and be prepared to be the best wife you can be-- which is not the same as being a totally submissive person who does not get her own needs met.
I wish I had more time to post to you today. We are trying to get out of town for a family wedding. I will check back in when I can, but I will be pretty scarce the next couple of days.
I'll miss you have a great trip and awesome wedding time.
He is in the BATTLE of his life. One that he just doesn't realize and the real him is losing terribly. BUT, I am learning to become a WARRIOR GODDESS and fight for G-d.
The way G-d wants me to, by becoming the woman he always envisioned for me and being that beacon or lighthouse that stands tall, full of love and continues to HOLD THE SPACE OF OUR MARRIAGE. While G-d does what he is doing in my H.
If I truly grasp the one day at a time concept, I don't have to worry about my H today, because he is in G-ds hands and G-d loves him more than me and is suffering more than me at the way he KNOWS my H is hurting himself.
I tried calling H but his cell phone went immed. to vm. Not sure if he was on or not, so I hung up.
I called back and it went immed. to vm again. He may be on it still or have it turned off. Nonetheless, I NEED to GET GOING.
I left this message.
Hey there R. Good morning, I am just calling in to see how you are doing today? I am out and about running errands and thought about you and wanted to see if you needed or wanted anything. I hope you are having a great day and if you think of anything, give me a call, I would be happy to do it for you.
Then I wished him a wonderful day in my most loving caring voice I have.
Doesn't the OW react to your plan A? I would think that just the fact that she knows that you are in regular contact with him would be enough to cause some friction over there.
I have NO clue what is going on over on her side of the street. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I would love to know how he gets around me calling, showing up at soccer, introducing myself to her, talking to him online, giving him gifts. LOL, no clue whatsoever.
My MS is struggling with the coach for lacrosse. Of course he is, b/c he has to always be right. Just like his dad.
Guess who I called and again went to vm. Not sure what's going on, but his phone is off. Anyways, I left a message that he was so good at helping me last time regarding the children I needed his help with another problem.
I am going to get him to talk to me about how his need to always be right can be worked through. Very subtly of course, but this is HUGE. If G-d can give me the strength, clarity of mind and calm heart to just explain MS's problem, but know that I am reaching my H, maybe, just maybe a seed can be planted.
I bought him an anniversary card that is perfect. I have to run MS around for an errand, but want to put it out here for advice on what I should write in the card.
I am planning to take it to him tomorrow along with the CD gift. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I really am grateful to G-d for given me the opportunity to delve into my H's mind and see how he handles the very problem that drives him. Thank you G-d.
I really am grateful to G-d for given me the opportunity to delve into my H's mind and see how he handles the very problem that drives him.
This is not your task NOW if ever, Queenie. Your task is to meet his EN of ADMIRATION which can be accomplished here. Mainly ask him his ADVICE on handling his son. Don't make it about analyzing HIM. Make this opportunity about YOU asking for his HELP.
He is a WH. He is not likely to openly share with you his feelings about himself....
You are so right. I wrote that wrong. I really meant what you wrote. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It gave me the opportunity to ask him for help and just make a note of what he says in my head. It's the same situation when I asked him about how to handle the boys when they were shutting down on me.
Thanks for making me reword it and make sure I am on the correct path.
LOL....And it doesn't matter why he is BINGING? Darn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have BEEN very busy today.
I went walking and RUNNING for the first time in over 20 some years. I watched my boys at lacrosse camp. I got conned into looking at possibly becoming a girls lacrosse coach for the high school team.
I slept in, I had a MC session, stopped at my sponsors house and picked up more stuff to unpack. UGH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Went to fake and bake and sat in some heat. It's snowing tonight and came home.
You’re still the one I want to love forever. you’re still the one I want to wake up with every morning and snuggle with every night, the one I want to share my dreams with, build castles in the air with, the one whose hand I want to hold when I’m afraid, whose shoulder I want to lean on when I need support.
you’re still the one I want to encourage to make your own dreams come true, the one I want to comfort when you need a source of strength, the one I want to hold close always.
You’re still the one, the only one, I want to love forever,
Happy Anniversary
I was thinking of writing. The road to home is open, come walk home.
Just wanted to let you know that I'm around and have been keeping up with your thread. Funny how "busy" I can be when I don't have to actually BE anywhere.
You started running? How great! You'll be ready for ultimate frisbee when the team starts.
I just wanted to echo something you said about being full of life. You most certainly are! It is part of what makes your eyes so remarkable. The light of your life with God is in them.
So, when do the Redskins play Seattle? I might actually watch that one in YOUR honor. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
How was your Christmas. Little little spurts of running, but a start. And will keep trying to build on it.
Thanks for the compliment on my eyes. You are so sweet.
It was those eyes that my H loved the most. He kept wanting me to look at him with love in my eyes. I did. He chose not to SEE it.
After they beat the Cowboys (sorry PM), then we will see what the schedule is. I hope they play on Sunday the 6th so I can go down to the hotel and get autographs.
Running in little spurts is how my friend started-and now she's running marathons! I'll send you some info on her in an email.
I've been putting my house back together after Christmas, returned my little bro's coat (and his cell phone) to my SIL today at the mall where we met (she got a make over from DD22 and then bought some stuff) and hanging out with my kids when they are around. OS is out working with some college buddies-cutting trees into firewood for an uncle of one of them (brrr) and DD25 is hanging out with friends before visiting her bio-family in Puyallup tomorrow.
It's very true that your WH is choosing not to see what is right in front of him-a wonderful wife who is full of love and God's grace. Your WH is in a "far country" and hasn't yet "come to his senses" like the Prodigal Son did in the parable in Luke 15. The thing to remember is your WH is God's prodigal, not yours. That's the best place to leave a WS anyway, in God's very capable hands.
I can't wait to see the pictures on your friend. She sounds amazing.
I am restless tonight. Want to go to a meeting, but I hate driving when it's snowing and I don't know how the roads are.
I am slowly trying to unpack the stuff in my car and that would be a little bit better use of my time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
First off I apologize for intruding here... but skinsgal, I've started from the beginning and I've been reading your posts and responses... there are now 59, wow! pages and I've not yet made it halfway through them... what I need is to borrow some of your supporters ;-) You seem to be getting a lot from them and I wish you the best!
johnstwin mark1952 mimi jamesus sexymamabear
you've all given her such wonderful support and I could surely use some at this horrible time... I'd stay up and post more, but it's nearly midnight and I've gotta get to work tomorrow, please find my post tyia, SerenitySoon
I can't get WH to draw into any conversation. He wanted to know what's going on with my son, and I told him I needed to talk to him on the phone about it. He didn't respond. He also didn't respond when I told him I wanted to use the camera for the alumni game this Saturday and asked him if he had gotten the message that I left regarding it.
I can't figure out why this camera is so flippin important to him, but you know, my M is way more important than any stupid thing.
I am just going to bring it down to him tomorrow and tell him that very thing. I was thinking of saying, it seemed really important to you to have the camera and what is important to you is important to me, so here you go?
I was pondering to say that maybe we could negotiate and little and ask him to come to the game and take pictures with my card and leave it with me so I could get copies made for us. What do you think? I imagine he will bring her and that is going to be awful, but what do you think?
I don't want this stupid camera between us anymore. I have the money to go get another one that's actually better, it just won't have the long lens that I love so much.
Since my mind is wandering, can I ask for a little help in remembering what my purpose and focus for doing Plan A with him is. I know this is about becoming the very best I can be because I want to. And in a way, not willing to fight over the camera is so NEW for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think I"ll go take a bath, light candles and some music and see if I can relax and pray for awhile. I'm sorry to be so needy tonight.
I'm not crying, feeling upset or lost. Just my focus seems to need a little attitude adjustment or reinforcement.
Haven't made it to the bath yet. I have NO IDEA what drives this camera. I really don't. It's like the one thing he knows I want and needs to control it.
It actually isn't causing tension. He just feels he is entitled to it. I pretty much got EVERYTHING when we moved, and this camera is like the ONE THING he wants to have in his possession. He lets me uses it when its convenient for him. He knows I really enjoy using it, which is funny because it wasn't always that way. I was afraid to use it, then I bought him a long lens and walaaa, I love it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He doesn't initiate contact with me to get it, I do to get it from him. Then we leave the door open to get it back. And he like wants it back immediately. He knew I was using it for the camp, and he knows there is an alumni game so why would he want it back?
I wish I could understand, but how do you understand the absolute craziness.
Since I am restless, I thought of something too. He has been on and off gmail all night long, staying on and never ever saying hi. In order to be online you don't need to be on gmail. Why does he need to be gmail but other to see if I am here. He is definetly the ugly WH.
I do know that it's a way of him keeping track of me and knowing when I am online, and has access to me when he wants. When I go to Plan B, I am blocking him so he won't be able to see me and vice versa.
Oh, Mimi, are you ready for my withdrawals then. LOL
Oh... I hadn't thought of the control issue. It sounds like he relishes that tiny bit of control he has left. Letting go of it and the control might be a good prelude to Plan B, but I would see what Mimi has to say about that.
On the other side is there a chance that this is H trying to reach out? If he really wanted it and wanted you completely out of his life, I would think that he would do all he could to either ignore or deny your requests to use it? (I know this might be out there).
I finally got my bath, and I thought about what you just posted. You know what I believe Mimi would be telling me.
This is MY PLAN. Because my H is NOT THERE RIGHT NOW. I don't need to waste my precious love and time on a creature that is plain SICK and TOXIC.
My plan it to absolutely leave no doubt with m H that if he came home he would NEVER EVER questions again if he was number one or not. That is after G-d.
I need to stop worrying about what I do has this or that effect on him and just concentrate on knowing that I gave this everything I HAD and that if he chooses to not UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH I LOVE HIM, then it's his COMPLETE AND UTTER LOSS.
There is NO WAY that OW could EVER measure up to the depth of the love I carry in my heart for him. So he can have the camera and he will know when I give it back to him tomorrow it was because I recognized this camera was important to him and I want him to know that HE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON to ME.
So I'll just happen to drop by tomorrow with the camera and my card and comment that I hope he is able to make it to the game on Saturday and if he does, could he please take pictures with my card so I can take them and get copies for the both of us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I need to stop worrying about what I do has this or that effect on him and just concentrate on knowing that I gave this everything I HAD and that if he chooses to not UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH I LOVE HIM, then it's his COMPLETE AND UTTER LOSS.
You have given everything you have and then some. You will be able to be happy with the knowledge that you have no regrets because of it whether the fog lifts or not.
You're ability to love and to count on your faith for strength is remarkable. Welcome back from your will trip to despair town.
Naw, I haven't given everything I have YET. There is still more Plan A in me, but the door is starting to wabble. Not because I want to, but because I need to PROTECT my family and the LAWYER wants to make sure that I don't go too long without getting the finances taking care of.
Not remarkable, it's just who I am. That's how I KNOW that G-d has faith in me because he KNOWS I am capable of walking through this loving my H, facing all my demons, becoming the woman G-d envisions for me, and holding the space of my M so that G-d can work his miracles in my H.
The timing just isn't what I want.
It's good to be back. I hope I don't need to go there for a LONG time.
You’re still the one I want to love forever. you’re still the one I want to wake up with every morning and snuggle with every night, the one I want to share my dreams with, build castles in the air with, the one whose hand I want to hold when I’m afraid, whose shoulder I want to lean on when I need support.
you’re still the one I want to encourage to make your own dreams come true, the one I want to comfort when you need a source of strength, the one I want to hold close always.
You’re still the one, the only one, I want to love forever,
Happy Anniversary
I was thinking of writing. The road to home is open, come walk home.
Or what else could I write?
I think I'd just say, "There is a road to home when you're ready to take the first step." Or maybe not even say anything like that at all. I dunno. Since you're in Plan A right now this could be a good set up for your Plan B letter when you actually describe how to "take that first step on the road home."
Hopefully Mimi will be by to advise you better. JMHO.
Yes, I just came from there. I have been praying to G-d for a clear mind, calm heart and soft tongue.
He blessed me.
WH was shocked that I brought him the camera. I asked him if he had a moment to talk, he said actually no, I am busy.
Ok, well heres the camera (I handed it to him), and I as did I told him that it seemed that it was important to him to get the camera back and what is important to him is most important to me. He was taken aback for sure.
As I was handing him the camera he mentioned so the boys are playing tomorrow. I said yes. I asked him if he could do me a favor and take pictures with my card so I could go and get copies taken for the both of us. He agreed.
And as I handed him the card, I handed the anniversary card and wished him a Happy Anniversary. And got ready to leave.
He then asked me a question which I answered and said goodbye, and then he went into talking about what our DMS is up to that is causing him trouble. So I smiled to myself because remember he didn't have time to talk, and I followed him back to where he was and asked him what he was doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We talked a little bit about his job, and I kept asking engaging questions to bring him out of his shell. I followed him in to where he was and that was very uncomfortable for him and he said he needed more light. I apologized and moved back, but he kept talking away. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Then he asked me about our son. I said, well, he is having trouble with his coach. He asked a few clarifying questions and then I went in for the kill. I said, MS is in a place where he has to be right at all cost. And since you helped me so much last time and offered such words of wisdom, I thought you could help me with this. I then went on to say, you know this really isn't my walk, its MS's journey, however as his mother I need to find a way to support him and that's where you need you, to help me figure out what I can do for him that doesn't get in his way.
DING... DING....DING... He just started talking and said that I had to find a way to reach him without him knowing it. I am just smiling to myself inside and outwardly I am sure. He said maybe you can try talking to him about being a coach and how he has had to reach a player that he struggled with. I have to admit, that was something I hadn't thought to do, and I totally jumped on that and told what a great idea that was. I really meant it to. And I thanked him, and I might have even thrown in I knew you could help me.
We got interrupted by a coworker who needed his help. It was interesting b/c WH knew he had the right answer and it turns out he didn't. He was huffing and puffing what he would do if something had happened and it turns out he was wrong. LOL....
After talking to the coworker and playing with his son, WH left to find out he was wrong and then came back and we continued our talk. He continued to work and I patiently watched him to what he was doing. Then he came back to our son and the need to be right and I just let him talk and I absorbed it ALL in.
I thanked him and asked him if he thought of anything else that we could go for a walk and talk. He somewhat agreed. Then I asked him about where he has started his inventory, he told me. I asked him how he thought he would do and went on to explain that if it turned out as bad as last year he would be fired.
We talked about how he had changed things, and then I grabbed his hand and told him I believed in him. He said he believed in himself too, and I said good. And while holding his hand, I pulled him close, kissed him on the lips and hugged him tightly.
Then we talked about if he got fired he commented that he knew my district was looking for maintenance guys. And then the last topic was for eye dr. insurance. I asked him what his was, he told me, and then he said why would I want to use his when my is so good. I said, well I got new glasses and am thinking of getting contacts. Then I asked him if he noticed my new glasses, he said yes a few weeks ago. I said, why didn' you say anything? He didn't respond, I got well a girl likes to know that you notices things, and flirtingly said, a wife likes to know these things. He just looked down.
I told him I was looking forward to seeing him tomorrow and asked him if he could come over Sunday or Monday for the car. He said yes. He also asked if my son was mad at him for what happened at the last tournament, bringing her, because he isn't returning phone calls. I reiterated what I have said all along. His relationship with the kids is his, not mine and I don't interfere.
I chose to wear professional classy look. I have been showing off my new figure and decided to go more subdued and classy. He noticed a necklace I was wearing and asked mentioned that I have had it for a long time. I told him it was his mothers. He knew that, but I think was testing me. I wore it proudly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I decided not to leave a note on his car as I have been doing the last few times I was there. Maybe he might be expecting it and I want to let him feel a slight disappointment, I can only hope. Not in my hands.
I'm just a newbie as well, but that just made my day! Is it just me or maybe we were on to something about the camera... he knew that it would keep you comming back. Well now that's gone, so could he be thinking that you're moving away from him a little. Could he be feeling some fear that this is becoming all too real? First his S now this...what's next?
I just received this and want to pass it on to all of you.
Each and everyone one of us are going through tough times right now, but God is getting ready to bless you in a way that only He can. Keep the faith.
My instructions were to pick four people that I wanted God to bless, and I picked you. Please pass this to at least (4) people you w ant to be blessed and a copy back to me. I am passing it on to all of you in the hopes that this will help you smile today and feel the love G-d has for you.
This prayer is powerful, and prayer is one of the best gifts we receive. There is no cost but a lot of rewards. Let's continue to pray for one another.
The prayer:
Father, I ask You to bless my friends, relatives and those that I care deeply for, who are reading this right now. Show them a new revelation of Your love and power. Holy Spirit, I ask You to minister to their spirit at this very moment. Where there is pain, give them Your peace and mercy. Where there is self-doubt, release a renewed confidence through Your grace. Where there is need, I ask you to fulfill their needs. Bless their homes, families, finances, their goings and their comings. Amen.
I have NO IDEA what is going on in his head. NONE. I don't know what he is thinking, I don't know what he WANTS. I would venture to say HE DOESN'T KNOW.
What significance the camera holds for him, no idea. But what it held for me was the new me to release something that is obviously important for him. I could ask for it back when I need it, but the truth is I will be in Plan B by then and have a new camera and won't need it.
I still can NOT imagine my life without him. I can bear that thought. But G-d needs me to move forward to keep working hard to heal and recover, so I can receive his blessings.
When I held is hand for a moment, I felt a tiny squeeze. MY H exists so deep inside and I just have to keep my FAITH that G-d will find a way to bring him home.
Each day I get closer to Plan B and becoming completely dark. Each day I ask G-d to take my hand and pull me towards his light. Each day my love for MY H grows deeper and deeper.
Has anyone heard the new REO Speedwagon CD. I will get the lyrics. It really is fitting for what is going on in my life.
Quote
First his S now this...what's next?
Hey TMTS, what is S? Then I can answer the question.
I'm off to look at new cameras.
As for a well executed plan. I need Mimi and the others to let me know if I did ok. I don't assume anything right now. I do know I am doing what I can, when I can and it's totally in G-ds hands because remember, Plan A is about US being the BEST we want to be for us and NO ONE ELSE.
Right now I'm hanging out with my family at my brother's house. I'm playing nintendo with the kids. Also I'm reading a book called eat,pray,love. It's about this woman's spiritual journey. Very enlightning.
We talked about how he had changed things, and then I grabbed his hand and told him I believed in him. He said he believed in himself too, and I said good. And while holding his hand, I pulled him close, kissed him on the lips and hugged him tightly.
Quote
I told him I was looking forward to seeing him tomorrow and asked him if he could come over Sunday or Monday for the car. He said yes. He also asked if my son was mad at him for what happened at the last tournament, bringing her, because he isn't returning phone calls. I reiterated what I have said all along. His relationship with the kids is his, not mine and I don't interfere.
Oh Mimi, thank you. I don't think it's true, but thank you.
And GET THIS. Get what I have back in my possession. The CAMERA.
LOL
He called me around 4:30 and just sounded exhausted. He said he was just getting off work and said he wasn't going to be able to make it to the game tomorrow. First I said, I was thinking about how your day was going and was going to contact you tonight to see how it went. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Then I said, oh bummer, who come, he said he had errands. I pressed him and it turns out he needs to go GET firewood so they don't freeze.
He paused for something, I have NO IDEA, waiting to hear if I would make a snide remark. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I just said oh darn. And then I realized what he was saying that he wouldn't be able to take pictures. I immediately thanked him so much for thinking of me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He said that he could give the camera to DD, but I wanted to talk to him longer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, so I keep brainstorming what would work. Finally we agreed that we could meet up on his way home and I could get the camera from him then.
I thanked him very much again for thinking of me and told I would see him in a little while. I was so easy going and flexible and loving. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
So, let's think about this. I'm sorry I have to. I show up down at work today, all loving, making my comittment to him that he is number #1 in my life by bringing what seems to be the most single important thing to him, out of everything we had, bringing it to him and telling him that what he wants means more to me than my desires. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Ok, not exactly like that, but the jist.
I kiss him, leave him with a very nice but tasteful anniversary card telling him there is a road home when he is ready to take the first step, and have made plans to see each other over the weekend. Indirectly of course.
He works a LONG DAY that I KNOW he is TIRED and grouchy and his OW is preventing him from seeing his kids. She might not have said that, but the mere fact that he has 4 days off, and has to go TOMORROW and miss his kids game in my book would be a LB? Anyone else think so? Also, I know when my H is this tired he likes to be left alone. There she is all day long waiting for him to get home and will want attention. Hopefully she hasn't figured that out that he needs to be left alone, but she bothers him and pisses him off more. I can only hope.
Being the student of the best, Miss Mimi, I am not about to let any opportunity that I can go to waste. So, when we hooked up I comforted him quickly on his long day, said what a bummer that he can't make it (this will be the only year the boys play on the same team as teammates and he has to MISS IT for firewood that he probably knew he needed to get a while ago). And then I reached out and touched his face and told him that I would miss him tomorrow. He mentioned that he would try and make it, I said, that would be wonderful.
Then he quickly said I gotta get go and as he left, told me he fully charged the camera. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
G-d is one generous spirit to me right now. I can't believe I have the camera back. LOL. How funny is that. Now we will have to exchange again and I can be as generous as he needs me to be.
So, just a little thought. What are the chances he read the anniversary card? I know it doesn't matter, but it does to me. Maybe one day not, but today it does.
As for Plan B, Mimi is directing me to when that takes place and my LSA is handled and finished so he can't play any games with me.
Mimi,
Tell me where I am off and missing any opportunities so I can keep learning and moving forward to Plan B.
I'm off to Alanon and AA and then will be back. I hope you all are having a nice evening.
Wow.. looks like you're doing good. I don't have much to add tonight.. unfortunately the last few days have left me pretty much emotionally spent.. but I did want you to know that I have been keeping tabs and think you're doing wonderfully.
And then I reached out and touched his face and told him that I would miss him tomorrow. He mentioned that he would try and make it, I said, that would be wonderful.
OMG..my mouth is hanging wide open.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
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As for Plan B, Mimi is directing me to when that takes place and my LSA is handled and finished so he can't play any games with me.
Honestly and truly..BELIEVE ME..You are the PLAN A QUEEN..I can almost hand you the baton to pass on to others...you might wanna change your thread name...MY GOD BLESSED PLAN A... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My recommendation is for you to make an appt. with STEVE HARLEY..ASAP..using some of the funds you have gotten..let STEVE coach you on how to proceed from here and let us support you with Steve's recommendations...
I'm not a professional with this..STEVE is..IMHO, I don't see any reason for doing PLAN B just yet.,as long as you don't feel like YOU are in danger of losing YOUR LOVE for HIM....he is responding GREATLY to your PLAN A...he is PUTTY in YOUR HANDS right now...let's see how far you can reel him in...
How is the apartment looking? All [censored] and span and homey and inviting? I think he needs to be invited in to see what HOME would look and feel like...
Nope, not in danger of losing my love for him. However, part of what keeps me going is that there will be an end. Some days I am so drained I don't have the energy, especially when WH is so incontrol and he does such cruel things. Or I get my hopes up that it's having an effect on him only to be shot completely down and reminded my H is NO LONGER there.
The LSA is the stickler in all this. My A feels that the longer I wait to get a financial agreement settled, the easier it will be for WH to NOT have to pay as much. I DON'T want that to HAPPEN.
I will call and make an appt. with Steve. And report back once I get it.
I don't think he is putty in my hands at ALL. He is highly unpredictable and can go dark his ownself, so I am extremely cautious. G-d is just being very gratious and giving to me to see just a chance of hope. But I have to be REALLY CAREFUL to not think anymore of it. I'll take the little victory today, but understand the WAR is still on so deeply.
The apt isn't totally done yet, but I am close. I am teetering between taking a chance and driving up to see if he is possibly playing soccer or staying home and cleaning the apt totally again. He said he would come over either Sunday or Monday, and actually it was weird, he looked straight at me and told me that. Last week he was evasive. What do you think, soccer or clean apt?
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You are showing him what a caring wife you can be, and OW is sending him for firewood after a long day at work.
Actually she wasn't sending him out until his day off. And essentially she is making him choose between having a fun time with his children or responsibility. Remember, part of why he left was because he doesn't want responsibility. Real life is creeping in I can only hope.
I am so appreciative of all your good wishes. I'm just scared to see the positives. So, please see if for me and help me to keep moving forward in MY PLAN.
Yes, TMTS, I am marking this day down as a victory for G-d. Because he is the one guiding my strength and perserverance.
Steve or Jennifer would be great resources. I can tell you I got my money's worth and more from Jennifer.. as advanced in your Plan A as you are... I'm sure they can give you some tips to get down the stretch and set WH up for the KO..
I don't think he is putty in my hands at ALL. He is highly unpredictable and can go dark his ownself, so I am extremely cautious. G-d is just being very gratious and giving to me to see just a chance of hope. But I have to be REALLY CAREFUL to not think anymore of it. I'll take the little victory today, but understand the WAR is still on so deeply.
You're probably right about this.
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I am teetering between taking a chance and driving up to see if he is possibly playing soccer or staying home and cleaning the apt totally again. He said he would come over either Sunday or Monday, and actually it was weird, he looked straight at me and told me that. Last week he was evasive. What do you think, soccer or clean apt?
My vote is for cleaning the apt. He needs to be able to envision himself living there...."A SANCTUARY"...is what my H calls the HOME that I make for him...remember Proverbs 31.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I agree with you. My vote is to clean the apt as well. I want everything perfect for when he does come over.
Besides I will get more opportunities to go visit him at his soccer game before Plan B, and really I don't know if he is there or not.
He knows I showed up last week and he knows I went on Christmas Eve and he wasn't there. The funny thing, I NEVER stopped him from doing anything he wanted, NEVER. I just didn't go.
She stops him from doing things, and I am not sure if she goes or not to those games.
I do know she controls him a LOT more than I ever did. And she has a biting tongue on her. He told me that. I wonder, I know, really doesn't matter, but I wonder if he tells her how often I have been calling, sending emails, ecards and coming to visit him? And the notes on the car, I wonder if he tells her anything?
So, Mimi, do you think he read the anniversary card?
Clean the place. If I'm stuck cleaning today, I would appreciate someone else cleaning too.
And, YES, talk to the Harleys. I never did - thought it was too expensive. LOL. I ended up losing a thousand times more money.
As for the OW - at first they completely lock up their taker. They do EVERYTHING for the WS, and cheerfully without complaint. But of course that gets old. They seem to be able to keep it up as long as they feel the wife is a threat. Then their taker comes out.
Ok, stuck I am here with you cleaning the place. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well remember, I went semi dark in October for a month. And for the most part I have stayed out of her way. It's only been since Mimi started directing me that I have been full blown in her face, but she may not know it either.
Her taker has come out, he just doesn't want to see it. He said the grass wasn't greener back in August when he was waffling between us both. He just lives this fantasy that their relationship CAN BE AMAZING with a HUGE AMOUNT of WORK, which he is willing to do with HER, but NOT ME.
Where the difference lies and I don't think I can even lie to myself about this one.... I am the real deal of love and caring for him unconditionally. He is really mostly a meal ticket and a rescue for her, but she is making out like a bandit. Doesn't need to work, is taking care of, said all the right things to. I imagine he is desparate to do whatever it takes to make her happy at this point. But even that has to get old, don't you think?
I clean by the FlyLady plan. So I started out picking up 50 things that were out of place. With no stopping for anything, that took about 10 minutes.
Then dusted in the livingroom (10 minutes) and bedroom (10 minutes), vacuumed (10) and scrubbed kitchen sink. Then doused bath sinks, tubs and toilets with cleaner.
Now back to posting. Then floors to mop. Oh, and I forgot, bedding is in washer now.
The strength of you Plan A reminds me alot of Lostva. Have you read her story? There are only a few people I've ever seen over the years who had enough patience and compassion to do a really lengthy Plan A so well that it seemed like a good idea....but I think you may be one of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That was lovely.
Thank you so much. I read her thread when this first happened. I actually took the idea of lighting a candle for my H everynight from her.
And I remember the three questions she asks herself everyday.
You know, I keep asking G-d for perserverance rather than patience. My sister told me that if I ask for patience he will give me situations that require it. I don't want patienct situations. LOL.
My strongest assest is my capacity to love people unconditionally. I can't imagine doing this any other way, except if it was a detriment to G-d bringing my H home. As frustrating and scary as this is, I really just have to take the blinders off and see how unhappy and sick the WH and OW are and they are desparately trying to hang onto each other in a hopes for finding that ultimate happiness.
I am SO NOT confident the WH will lose out over my H, but I am confident that what they are looking for can't be found between them. That can only come from G-d and the relationship you have with him. Or at least that is what I have come to know and understand.
I have to be honest with myself and KNOW that this is a LONG LONG WAR and that ONLY with G-d as my number one spirit in life will I make it through this.
That and staying close to here. With the friends I am making on here, I don't feel so alone in my life and feel like I am fighting a WAR that can't be one.
Actually I have only been working this solid Plan A since November. It's true out of sheer G-d intervention and coming to this website, did I work an OK Plan A. I didn't have the focus of what I was trying to accomplish and so was just desparate to have any contact with him. Now my interactions are ALWAYS purposeful.
I STILL have so much to learn and hope that my legal situation doesn't push me into Plan B to fast. Because to be honest, I want him to feel financially more than he is, if that's possible.
When I really think about it, all he has really lost is his kids. I am there feeding him every chance I get. He is struggling for money, but not nearly as much as my A says he could. And you know what I am going to do with that money?
Put it away for a cruise that my H and I are going on when this WHOLE mess is over with and he is safely home and we are recovering.
And thank you for your kindness. Somehow I still have it in my head, that unless he comes home, Plan A was a failure. Who cares to help me get my thinkin clear?
Here's my PERSONAL POWER post..in answer to your question regarding the benefits of YOUR PLAN A...
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PERSONAL POWER
As I look back over my time here, I consider this one of the GREATEST GIFTS that I received from this forum.
I remain here for that sustenance.
The POWER helps me in my MARRIAGE to this day.
It weathers me through CONFLICTS with my H..yes CONFLICTS from which I used to FLEE..I walk head on into them and SPEAK MY TRUTH...and I see my H valuing ME and RESPECTING ME...AHHHH...PERSONAL POWER....I LOVE IT!!!
Becoming convicted to WORK YOUR PLAN will lead you HERE to where I am...
It has to be YOUR PLAN..not about HIM...
It has to be how YOU WANT TO CHANGE TO MAKE YOURSELF INTO A BETTER PERSON...
Then THE PLAN is REAL, SINCERE AND MEANINGFUL to YOU and that will be communicated to your WS and others....
Starting with the FOCUS ON YOURSELF prepares you for PLAN B which takes all the PERSONAL STRENGTH and CONVICTION a PERSON CAN BEAR...
It is hard to PERSEVERE AND ENDURE during PLAN B..it involves WITHDRAWAL from your WS and RECREATING YOUR LIFE...it did for me...
Yes, Plan B for me was ONLY 3 MONTH or so...but THE MENTAL PREPARATION, SOUL SEARCHING and LIFE CHANGES STARTED WAY BEFORE THEN on D-DAY...
I decided to CHANGE INTO THE NEW ME that I am today and have not turned back...and will not turn back...I WILL NOT BE THAT PERSON EVER EVER AGAIN...
I have a sense of PERSONAL POWER and PURPOSE..my H knows for sure that I WILL AND CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT HIM..I am certainly ENHANCED BY HIS PRESENCE IN MY LIFE..but also HIS LIFE IS ENHANCED BY ME....
I felt compelled to say this this morning...
I am so thankful for getting to this place...
It is VITAL FOR YOU GUYS..especially MY GIRLS..to get HERE, TOO...
And one of your girls is working to get there just as hard as she can with G-d leading her in the direction.
You are the best. And this is going somewhere prominent where this becomes me in my own way with G-ds instruction and guidance.
I found my wedding day memory plate, the glasses that we used to always drink a toast for our anniversary and put a picture of us in my dining room. You can't help but see it when you walk in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, I'm doing good today. Got the place CLEAN, walked for a mile and finished the laundry. Now on to cleaning out the fishtank and then sorting through clothes. I have way too many, and can't seem to part with them.
Weather here is cold (for us) - 50 something I think.
I have been cleaning all day. I really got into it for some reason. I think because I got an early start. I even did the windows inside and out, and all the curtains. Almost like spring cleaning. Lately I've done spring cleaning early, kind of like starting the New Year out right.
I went exercising before the boys game. My hips are absolutely killing me. I wonder why?
Is is sunny?
I think I miss the sun alot during the winter.
So Believer, can I bug you for reinforcement. Do you think that WH is even thinking that he missed his boy's game or do you think he is lost in the fog again?
The topic at Alanon last night was taking care of ourselves. I am the LAST ONE to do that, I would so much RATHER FIX YOU. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hey girl.. Am just back from visiting with my family in Atlanta and catching up with my MB friends.
Whew...you've been busy!! I am so proud of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I assume we have another 'Skins date tomorrow night?? LOL
Well it looks like WH is back in full strength. I left him a little note telling him how well our boys and he hasn't responded.
I seem to make progress with him during the week and then he gets time with her and it's gone. The drug is his life.
I'm tired from cleaning and need a little encouragement. Any scriptures thoughts on what you do to keep going?
I know it's told to me before and again, and I am shaking my head. I just miss him. And it hurts that he chose to get firewood instead of see a game where his boys will not be on the same team in this arena for 4 more years. Please tell me that one day he will wake up. Believer?
I know Mimi, stop the stinkin thinkin and just keep moving forward. The hard part and I will keep plugging along is I don't want to live life without him. It's empty.
I'm sorry, I really am trying. I am making dinner for the kids and then bake some cookies. I have the front room just about done and will start on by bedroom after the football game.
The expectation that they will realize how you are changing or how much you love them is a real killer. I know it is hard when you are new to figure it out. But that is what finally made me quit wanting my ex.
They will disappoint you every time, and take a little piece of your heart.
But, when the affair ends, they come right back - or want to.
We have to work on that ARMOR..building up that WALL of protection of your SOUL.
Somehow I was able to convince myself that HE was NOT MY HUSBAND..and just like in MY NIGHTMARE..it was TRUE... THAT MONSTER was NOT MY HUSBAND..
IT looked like him..talked like him...but HE was a MONSTER in my H's shell...
Even when he is NICE to you..Don't let the ALIEN WH MONSTER fool you...
Just tonight I was speaking to my H about an incident that happened to our son during his affair...he tried to play it off but his BLANK STARE made it clear that he was CLUELESS about many events that occurred during that period of time.. it was like he wasn't even there...WIERD..he does this a lot...like he was in a BLACKOUT during that time...WIERD...
You are so right, it just hurts so deeply. Oh well.
He is BINGING off of her. I actually just spent almost a half an hour talking to him online. Here we are having a great chat and all of a sudden he says - gotta go...and he is gone. It HURTS and it TIRES me out that I am such a low class thing to him.
He said he wished he could have been there. I asked him if he played soccer and he said yes and then turned around and went up to West Seattle for the free firewood. You know, that in a way upsets me. He could find time to play HIS game, and do what OW wanted, but not miss his game, get the firewood and come watch his kids. Is that normal WS stuff?
I will say he was very chatty for a long time. I was actually amazed at how long he talked to me. He seemed very friendly and open. We talked about football, the kids, my running, I asked for help. At one point I asked him if I could ask a health question. It was funny because we were talking about the Patriots and he mentioned something and as a joke I said, are you drugging or drinking again? He answered yes, but it was to another question I had asked. And I slyly put in YOU ARE?
Then he responded Are you nuts why would I go down that road again. I wasn't really asking him, but what do you think about that response. So many people think he is using again and I pretty much doubt it. It's funny that he just didn't say no.
All I can say is I was as sweet as possible, encouraging, sense of humor and asking as many questions as possible. He is such the SELFISH WH. I told him I was hurting from running and asked him what it could be. He actually took a few minutes to tell me to watch how I am running and that I could screw up my back or my heals. Not much concern, but did offer suggestions.
OH G-D I miss him and want to talk to him MORE. We were best friends and talked about so much together and that's GONE. It's like a part of me is just GONE and he is happy living off with someone else who has it MADE. Please remind me that it could be just phony and fake over on that side. I have NO IDEA what is going on. I just have to keep moving forward, somehow.
LOL, staying at home nesting is one of the hardest things I am learning to do. It's just not my nature to be at home. And it's worse because the main reason to be at home is with my H and I don't have that.
Oh, he didn't say anything about coming over and helping me with the car. I actually still have my bedroom to complete so I didn't want to say anything. Do you think I should ask him tomorrow after I get my room cleaned and the apt is done or wait for him to say something?
YES, I am calling on Monday to make an appt. What is the difference between Jennifer or Steve?
I'm sorry to be down tonight, I'm just lonely and MISS MY H.
We have to work on that ARMOR..building up that WALL of protection of your SOUL.
This is something I do have to do. I gotta tell you, this just hit a deep core nerve with me. You see, I had a wall up protecting me from him for many years because he picked on me for so long. And FINALLY, I let that wall down and that's when he found HER.
It was like my whole body was completely EXPOSED and he just DESTROYED IT. I'm scare for a wall to go back up and I won't be able to let it down again.
And then you are right, my SOUL needs some protecting. So, what would you suggest? How can I start to protect myself. My mind understands what you are saying, but my HEART, well my HEART just LOVES him so unconditionally. Does that make sense?
Is it true that the more contact that you have with him, the harder it is for you to ACCEPT this?
ACCEPTANCE is the KEY, Queenie.
He's gonna put her first. He's gonna lie to you. He's gonna let you down. HE IS SELFISH...it'a ALL ABOUT HIM..this is the NATURE OF A WS...
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OH G-D I miss him and want to talk to him MORE. We were best friends and talked about so much together and that's GONE. It's like a part of me is just GONE and he is happy living off with someone else who has it MADE. Please remind me that it could be just phony and fake over on that side. I have NO IDEA what is going on. I just have to keep moving forward, somehow.
Yes. Go ahead and give yourself permission to GRIEVE this. THE PAST IS GONE FOREVER. This is not saying that you cannot have a NEW RELATIONSHIP with him. My H and I have a NEW RELATIONSHIP. Our OLD RELATIONSHIP died and is FOREVER GONE because that OLD RELATIONSHIP included another woman....and I have ACCEPTED that he stopped loving me and LOVED her...yes, he loved her...She FILLED HIS LOVE BANK and he CLOSED ME OUT..
In MBers terms, you are beginning to make deposits in his LOVE BANK and he can FALL IN LOVE with YOU AGAIN..but that has not happened yet....
Do you get what I am saying? ACCEPTANCE that the OLD relationship has died. You are working on establishing a NEW RELATIONSHIP...
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And it's worse because the main reason to be at home is with my H and I don't have that.
And WHY is that? This is YOUR HOME that you are making for YOURSELF..for your own sanity and well-being...
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What is the difference between Jennifer or Steve?
I don't guess there's a difference. I had my coaching with Steve and liked him a lot.
The key is to FOCUS on your PERSONAL GROWTH...as you are already doing...YOU..YOU..YOU..in ALL AREAS...gaining YOUR STRENGTH...A MIGHTY FORTRESS which is YOU...don't look for filling from the OUTSIDE but from the INSIDE..
Even now, when I get down about something, it helps to remind ME..that I have ME...I become entirely SELF-FOCUSED...
I know ACCEPTANCE is the key. I'm really trying. I don't know why it's so hard.
Except....when you said.
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ACCEPTANCE that the OLD relationship has died. You are working on establishing a NEW RELATIONSHIP... [/quote}
Because Mimi, we are so DIFFERENT. We ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. I am full of life and want to explore. He doesn't let his emotions out. He controls everything. He never has really taken responsibility for his life. I had to. He just survived on what I did for us. And I got tired of it and changed the rules by not playing the games anymore.
I' SO CONFUSED.... I don't like this new man. This one is so selfish and self-seeking, a liar, a cheat, someone who is cruel.
[quote] In MBers terms, you are beginning to make deposits in his LOVE BANK and he can FALL IN LOVE with YOU AGAIN..but that has not happened yet....
I am just going to put this out there because it's the truth. Why would he FALL In LOVE WITH ME AGAIN. I'm not pretty and I am still fat. What would he possibly fall in love with?
Please don't get mad, it's just where I am, I have no self esteem or self worth and don't believe there is another man on this earth would could fall in love with me. I'm ashamed to say that, but it's true.
I guess it goes back to, how can I compete for his love when he is happy with her. Does that make sense? How would I even stand a chance? I don't like this man.
I've used Jennifer several times and like her. I don't know if Steve does this, but Jennifer had me write two letters expressing how I wanted to create a new life using MB concepts, although we didn't call them "MB" concepts. We just used the terms of radical honesty, mutual respect etc.
I however, ended up in Plan B anyway, but maybe he'll pull them out and read them over someday and decide that it is worth trying again. Hopefully I'll still be around at that point.
For you in the beginning was there things that brought joy to your life?
You know, it finally dawned on me what is causing this struggle so bad. Priod to D-day, I had what I considered total and complete life. However it was without G-d and therefore self destructing.
But I found enjoyment in almost everything I did. I quilted, I have many friends, I was a mom, a wife. I got to do all things. What I'm trying to say is there there is NOTHING in life that brings me enjoyment. It's hollow and empty without my H. And I am so angry at myself because I didn't even realize how much I loved and needed my H. I got exercise, I raise my kids, I go to work, I do this I do that, but NONE of it brings me joy. I just EXIST.
Please be patient with me. I really am trying to learn and move forward I just need to be honest and figure out how to get passed this. OK...
Thanks Chai,
I actually spoke with Steve this summer and really enjoyed our talk. He gave me a suggestion to get my H to do something, but he wouldn't do it. I didn't have the money to call back and see what is next. But I am on Monday.
Because Mimi, we are so DIFFERENT. We ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. I am full of life and want to explore. He doesn't let his emotions out. He controls everything. He never has really taken responsibility for his life. I had to. He just survived on what I did for us. And I got tired of it and changed the rules by not playing the games anymore.
I' SO CONFUSED.... I don't like this new man. This one is so selfish and self-seeking, a liar, a cheat, someone who is cruel.
So who is it that you LOVE? Do you LOVE the man who doesn't let his emotions out and survived on what you did, etc?
In my old life, I FAILED on not ACCEPTING my H for who he was. I wanted him to be who I wanted him to be. Do I hear that in what you are saying?
It is disrespectful for you to say that his way of dealing with emotions is not OK and your way is the RIGHT way.
The man you are dealing with now is WAYWARD SPOUSE. This is not the man who will be coming home. If your H comes home, he will be a BROKEN MAN, seeking your assistance in putting himself back together again..but basically, EMOTIONALLY, HE will be the SAME PERSON that he was before the affair..YOUR RELATIONSHIP will be NEW..but not HIM...
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Why would he FALL In LOVE WITH ME AGAIN.
THIS IS YOUR MAJOR TASK!! Answering this question will provide your armor. If you are concerned about your weight, work on that. I worked out every day..still do...You can lose more weight as you well know...
If you don't think you are PRETTY, how can you work on that? New glasses, new outfits? I don't know. Whatever it takes..
But I don't buy that you are not PRETTY. Remember, PRETTY is as PRETTY does. YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL! You just have to BELIEVE IT..THAT IS YOUR GOAL!!
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and don't believe there is another man on this earth would could fall in love with me.
Well, that is a BIG FAT LIE that you are telling yourself...but of course, you want your H and he can definitely FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU AGAIN!! Ask Steve. He will explain it to you better than I can.
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I guess it goes back to, how can I compete for his love when he is happy with her.
Yes. It's about continuing to work on your self-esteem and I betcha it's been really damaged by your weight issues over the years.
We want you to get to the place of realizing that HE IS THE LOSER..if he chooses to continue in a relationship with a CRACK HO...
You are not competing with HER...She is not even in your universe...
Ok, my moment of weakness is starting to leave. Not there yet, but fading...
Let me be completely honest with myself. I am absolutely scared to not have a man in my life because I want someone to love. That is partly was drives me. SF is my number one EN and it has not been met for probably my whole married life for whatever reason, I couldn't tell you. But at least I was held by him and had his friendship and I just learned to deal with it. So, I think that being afraid that I will never love again is HUGE for me right now.
As for what brings me joy, being a part of my kids lacrosse life brings me joy. Going out to the bars with my friends was fun. Going to AA meetings keeps me occupied. Laying out in the summer brings me joy. I like to go to fake and bake because I look healthier. I LOVE MY REDSKINS.
It's the nights that are the worst because I am so LONELY. And it kills me deep inside to my core that he is sleeping with someone while I lay in bed night after night crying myself to sleep because I just want to be held and cuddled. Adn then I wake up in the middle of the night, every night and reach for him and he isn't there. NO ONE is.
SG, first, revel in the love you have for your Lord. Then pray that your H will return. In another post I mentioned the power of going on the "Walk to Emmaus" If you don't know what it is, it is a 72 hour , pretty much cloistered event where you are face to face with your beliefs. It is supposed to be geared to strengthen churches which would lead "me" to believe I didn't fit the agenda. However, my H preceded me and I attended.....I knew after I was dismissed that I was so loved by God, and by my family that was there at candlelight, and by the women who sat at my Table for 72 hrs,. It was awesome...SG, attend one of these Walks. You will have the knowledge of Clergy and Laypersons at your disposal and you will be able to call on them once you enter your 4Th days.; They will forever be your brothers and sisters in Christ as well as your church people. This a non-denimontional event. I just think everyone should go...cause if you don't know our Lord, you will when you leave. just go online and search Emmaus Communities in your area and you will find true friends,
There's parts that I'm not saying 'cause I'm so busy trying to encourage you.
You have been TRAUMATIZED by this. You have been WOUNDED. That's why you are feeling NO JOY now and you did before..before you had not discovered your H's utter betrayal.
With my limited words and time, it sounds like I'm not being empathetic..but I didn't want to live without my H..didn't know how to live without my H...
But I came to the point of realizing that ACTIVITY was the only solution. Agonizing over his LOSS was getting me nowhere...
So you have to HEAL from this TRAUMA and the LOSS and it will take years..it has taken me years...so I understand your pain tonight...really do...there were many weekends during which I stayed awake each night...he left on Friday and came home on Sunday evenings...YUCK..now he's in there SNORING.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It's the nights that are the worst because I am so LONELY. And it kills me deep inside to my core that he is sleeping with someone while I lay in bed night after night crying myself to sleep because I just want to be held and cuddled. Adn then I wake up in the middle of the night, every night and reach for him and he isn't there. NO ONE is.
I think this is NORMAL for a BS. I never stopped waking up in the middle of the night and woke up each morning with him baing the first thing on my mind.
You still have love for your husband, Queenie, and he is gone. He can return but FOR NOW, he is GONE.
Grieving is what you are doing. NORMAL GRIEVING...
You are suffering from this trauma and that's why you have to begin to focus on your own healing.
I wanted him to be who I wanted him to be. Do I hear that in what you are saying?
At one time I would say yes. But NO, I absolutely accept who he is. I accept him because I love him. I disrespected him because I wanted him to be someone he wasn't. All I really wanted him to be was himself, he just wouldn't tell me who that was so I could get to know him? See what I mean.
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but basically, EMOTIONALLY, HE will be the SAME PERSON that he was before the affair..YOUR RELATIONSHIP will be NEW..but not HIM...
That's all I want is him. I KNOW the hurts he has lived through in his childhood. I don't want to fix him, I want to be a wife to him that is G-d driven. I want to be the wife that G-d wants me to be for HIM. If there is one thing that I have learned, it's the things I hated most about him are what I miss the most. How he eats, how he chews at his fingers, how he gets lost because he has no sense of direction.
How can I explain there is a precious little boy inside his body that is being destroyed by the choices the adult body is making. I just pray for the chance to walk through with my H and love him as he develops his own relationship with G-d. I don't want him to be someone he isn't. Not anymore. I did and I fought for years to make him different, but I MISS HIM. Who he was... Not what I want him to be. See what I mean?
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THIS IS YOUR MAJOR TASK!!
Without a doubt, this is essential for my survival in life and recovery. I am working on my weight, I totally haven't given up. I exercise more regularly and am running. I still am making good healthy choices for food, but after that it's left in G-ds hands. I just got new glasses <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and that's one of the reasons I go to fake and bake because I look better with a tan.
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Remember, PRETTY is as PRETTY does. YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL! You just have to BELIEVE IT..THAT IS YOUR GOAL!!
I promise, I will keep working on this. If I had to pick one thing that is beautiful about me it would be my eyes. They are dark brown and full of life and love. H called me Bright Eyes and they are. They sparkle with life. Just not at night.
I think I should send you a picture so you see what I mean that I am not pretty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I will ask Steve for all I can do to accomplish this. And yes, more than anything else in this world I want it to be my H.
I have never had any self worth or self-esteem. My parents didn't even want me. WH was the first guy to pay attention to me and we both just got married because we were afraid to be alone and think there was someone else. Sad but true. However, somewhere along the line I fell completely in love with this man.
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LET'S REALLY MAKE A NEW YOU...
STEP ON OUT, QUEENIE!!
Will you help me please, I don't know how to do this? I know it seems amazing, but I really don't.
And like you said today, maybe your nightmare was just a sympton of the trauma that you experienced and like James said it was just a moment for you to remember where you were but relish where you are now and how far you have come.
NEVER, do I think you are abrupt or empathetic. I know you suffered deep pains. I remember reading your posts from the beginning and thinking to myself you sound just like me. I imagine going to those places of feelings would be so hard for you and I don't want to bring you any pain or hurt. What you are giving me is HOPE and TIME and I really appreciate it. You are a gift from G-d. Please KNOW THIS.
I know you know what I am going through. And I'm sorry you had to hurt like this as well. In fact, I hurt for every last person on here who feels this. This experience has made me way more sensitive to people who have suffered this. And one day, the healing will be there. And I know it takes TIME. TIME - my best friend and my best enemy. Kinda like my H/WH.
Mimi, you are the best. You have touched my life and make me feel like I was something that mattered and deserved good things. I don't normally feel that way about myself.
What a nice suggestion. While it's non denominational, I can't do the Jesus thing though. I would be lying to myself if I said I thought he was the son of G-d.
I know that's why I trust you so much because you were there and are on the other side. One day, I will get to help someone who is like us and we will have that healing to share together.
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Is there something you always wanted to learn how to do?
Not really, I always did what I wanted. I lived my life with no regrets until this. However, a suggestion was made me to me to look into learning how to coach girls lacrosse and become a lacrosse coach for our team. That intrigues me.
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What about your profession? Are you satisfied with that?
I absolutely LOVE my job. I am the heart and soul of my school.
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I'll check with you tomorrow.
I look foward to it.
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Focus on decorating YOUR APT. in YOUR STYLE...make it ALMOST PERFECTLY YOURS...
I have decorated it for the most part. I am not happy with the boys bathroom, and want to make it into a lighthouse theme, so I will start thinking of ideas.
Thanks Mimi. Sleep well and may it be a night of magnificent dreams.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Adn then I wake up in the middle of the night, every night and reach for him and he isn't there. NO ONE is.
Good morning Skins,
I hope you feel a little better this morning because I certainly do. I cried for half an hour last night after I read your quote, as it expressed what I am feeling these days... NO ONE IS THERE.
I could feel your pain as well as my own and I find it remarkable that you so the strength you do.
I will meditate and pray for all of us to make it through our journey safe and happy.
Today I go back home to face the WW. More importanly though we are celabrating my YDD's 8th brithday, and the whole family will be here except for my WW. Il's are comming aunts, uncles, cousins.
So I got to get a grip of myself and be ready to Plan a my A$$ off when I get home.
She was talking to her best friend yesterday and ger told that shw was sad about spending the Christmas season by herself. I just hope that it that saddness will stay within her and help clear he fog.
I prayed for your happiness this morning, with the amount of strength you have shiwn, you deserve it!
I'm not there yet, but I'm still tired and want to sleep for a little longer. Football coverage doesn't start for another hour and a half.
Since you have been praying, why don't you pray to G-d to give you strength and perserverance to get through this with your WW.
Remember what Mimi and everyone else says, Plan A is about making those changes in you that you wanted to change. It's about given the WW an example of what life could be like if she were to come home. It's having a Plan and knowing what you want to do. In a way I am finding it's about purpose and focus. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
So, when you meet up with her, what changes have you made that shows you are a different person, not for her, but for you?
For me, I don't carry that chaos and anger inside my life anymore. It's just not a part of me. And so, that's part of why Plan A is so easy. Because all these changes in me or becoming the person G-d intended. When I was with my H, our relationship changed me into someone that was insane. He played mind games with me constantly not to mention the problem that drove him to the A still exists. He is completely UNHAPPY in his life and it's so obvious he is using her to get a fix that will stop him from having to look at himself and those DEEP DEMONS that exist inside him. The sad part is he runs a GOOD STORY and RACKET and has lied to HIMSELF for years. He needed me to make him happy like I NEEDED HIM to make ME HAPPY. And that is a losing equation. It's not my job to make him happy, just like it wasn't his to make me happy. The only way to total happiness is having G-d as the central spirit.
My relationship with G-d daily is what I seek out most. I know it's only having him guide me will my M really ever stand a chance of recovery. Am I HAPPY, NO WAY. I exist right now. As it sounds like you are.
BUT we are heading in the right direction and doing what will get us through that, having FAITH in G-d, working our life for him and just waking up and getting out of bed right now.
It's funny, I just got this thought. Mimi told me last night that I was getting my H to fall in love with me again. Maybe the part I am resisting in grasping that is I DON'T LIKE this WS and really don't LOVE HIM. I think Plan A is becoming who you really are and that you are trying to reach the S that you fell in love with and married.
I pray for you that the path G-d has for you and me will be an easy one today.
One idea, at night when I am crying myself to sleep, I grab my Tanakh, which is my bible and I hold it and talk to G-d. And I don't let go.
Just thought of something funny... I say that football is to slow for my liking, but the only sports I still participate in are golf and curling. There's not much slower than that.
I do, we get to watch the pros for real cheap durring the summer time. Once the 'pro' season is over, they join a sunner league, it's all the same guys but on different teams, and instead of$25 a ticket it $8. Love the sport, but haven't played since High School.
45pound granite rocks on ice. Kind of like shuffleboard ecect the ice has the effect of making the rocks turn 'curl' so you can hid behind other rocks and not havce yours knocked out.
The Toronto Rock, Major League Lacrosse. There are only 8 teams and the closest on to you would be Calgary. I used to play defence... Long arms and a good eye.
B - Curling is as big as hockey here in Canada. If you take a ride through little prairie villages you'll see three things... A Church, a Hockey arena and a Curling Club. It's really what golfers do on the off season. There are pros that their stated profession is Golf Pro.
I'm in the eastern time zone. (11:43AM). I'm originally from a little town in northern New Brunswick (Good old French Canadian Boy), but grew up not far from Toronto.
Not yet, I have been on and off of here and laying in bed. I'm sore from running yesterday. Second guessing that I didn't go to his soccer game instead of cleaning the apt.
I'll start working on my bdrm as soon as 10:00. I am watching the football coverage of the Redskins.
DREAM? That is so weird, I realized earlier this week that I had NO DREAMS. I talked to my business associate about helping me with that. She is working with me in building up self-esteem. And starting by having me read The Greatest Miracle in the World by Og Mandino.
Studying to be a rabbi is something that has always interested me and in order to do that I HAVE to learn fluent Hebrew. I could check online for a class and do that. The lacrosse coach approached me about becoming a coach for the girls team.
Sadly, when something interested me I just went out and learned it or taught myself about it. I can't get passed it was that person who lost my H. And that's why I fight this so. See what I mean? How can I change my thinking?
I had a MOMENT. A MOMENT where I realized that even though my WH is in an active addiction and pretty much out of control. He is a recovering addict who is living in a dry drunk, and is making certain choices.
HE IS A FOOL IF HE STAYS AWAY FOREVER.
I still have so much work to do, but that is my Plan A accomplishment for the day. I realized that I am an incredible amazing woman who was sick and just needed her H to stand by me while I got well.
He couldn't do it because whether he wants to admit it or not, he is sick and I will stand by him.
I am taking this very moment and realizing and owning that one day, one day I will be healed, and I don't know what my life will be like, but it will be a life that I created by myself for myself and children.
I am taking this very moment and realizing and owning that one day, one day I will be healed, and I don't know what my life will be like, but it will be a life that I created by myself for myself and children.
And I am sharing this MOMENT IN TIME with you...SMILING AND APPLAUDING..write your affirmation down so you can read it over and over again...
I love you, too, Queenie!!
Something WONDERFUL just happened. I want to wake my H up and tell him but I won't, I'll wait until in the morning.
Without going into detail, my YS just texted me and BASICALLY told me how happy he is about how his relationship with his father. They talked on the phone today, making amends with each other. Isn't that such a BLESSING on this day, hours before the D-Day anniversary.
God is GREAT and GOOD, Queenie. ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE..because that night I thought my life was over..I wanted to die.
I am SO HAPPY FOR YOU. MAZEL TOV, I am happy for ALL OF YOU. Mimi, do you realize how you are getting to experience a MIRACLE of how G-d allows hurts and then heals us. You so deserve this HAPPINESS and JOY.
Yes, G-d is GREAT. I'm hanging on to you girl and BELEVING what you are telling me.
You are the BEST, MIMI and deserve all the BLESSINGS that G-d has in store for you. Today is just one more blessing to come in a life full of them.
Thank you for sharing that with me. I am touched and grateful that you did. It gives me more hope that one day it will be ok, whatever that will look like.
Wow! I've been keeping up now and then on your thread and I just gotta say: Wow! You have grown soooo much in just the last week... It's really amazing when God leads our journey how He shapes us and changes us, and then lets us have little glimpses of what He's been doing and how He sees us.
Skinsgal - I have been gone for 4 days and not on the site at all. I have been trying to read all of your posts and WOW! You seem to be doing great. You have grown so much. I had a fantastic weekend away with my two sons and now I am home and so sad. Reality of being back and WH not being here. I understand what you mean about having that someone there beside you. Makes me very sad.
You are a strong woman. Wish I was, but am not feeling it right now.
I'm sorry you are sad. What can I do to help? I am here and have to stay up for a few more hours. YS wanted to go to a friend's house and I have to go get him.
It is hard and it's lonely. What are do you do to take care of yourself?
If you don't mind feeing my soul, help me to see what you mean by the growth. I don't recognize it at all. I just feel like I have had one pity party for a long time now.
First, you are reaching out to others, offering support and encouragement. God is already using your experience to help others.
Second, you are "getting" it. You realize that you are a fantastic woman and that your WH is nuts to not realize the treasure he has in you. But you also realize that your WH is sick, he is in an addiction. You realize that his A isn't really about you.
Finally, you are recognizing God's hand in this and it's not like it's a big deal. Rather, it is completely natural that God is working. That shows how much your faith has grown. You see His hand and you trust that He will continue to work. It's not a "surprise". I think that's the biggest miracle of faith. The more we trust, the more control we give away and the more God can work.
I'm going to visit my sister in Kitsap County on New Years, but after that, I'm just painting my living room.Actually, I think my OS will be painting it, since I paid his phone bill. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I miss you too! When do you go back to work? We should meet again. Email me.
Thank you, that helps to read what you are saying so I can internalize it. I still have that stinkin thinkin.
And do you know what the turning point was. Truly. A stupid soccer game and firewood. I couldn't imagine choosing a soccer game over my children and missing something important in their life.
And I KNOW that my HUSBAND, would NEVER had done that EITHER. But this WH said, I am tired of putting others first and want to put myself first. And I realized, WH, you missed out on something that won't happen for years if ever again.
Yes, I see the hand of G-d in all of this. G-d keeps guiding to becoming the one who is healing and tackling MYSELF and LEARNING about MYSELF even when I don't want to. The downs are so still there, and they still last a long time, but I have G-D, no MATTER what. And there is NO ONE, NO ONE who can take G-d away from me. He is with me always and forgives me and loves ME.
I STILL BELIEVE with all my heart that my HUBBY is meant to be with me. I STILL have FAITH that one day he will come home to be my H. I just have to wait on the LORD and let him do what it is he is doing.
Another thing I realized tonight and I could be totally wrong, but this WH is AFRAID of me. If nothing else, my H knows how much the Redskins winning tonight would have meant to me. And the mere fact that WH couldn't even respond to a text or a email just keeps confirming how sick he is and needs G-d so much.
I made a vow to G-d over the weekend. I wouldn't kill myself until after I got the kids all grown up and on their own. That gives G-d 3 1/2 years to work some more blessings in my life and heal me.
The pain is still unbearable. And so is the loneliness, but I can cuddle with G-d at night and pray for this too shall pass over and over again until it does. And ultimately it does. Maybe not immediately but at one point.
And the LOVE I have for my H. It's so deep inside of me it's a part of me as I breathe. I am NOT ready to see us in any other kind of relationship but M, however, I have FAITH that G-d knows what is best for ME. And I can face G-d today and say I am good enough to receive his blessings.
So, I continue to pray to be of service to G-d and hold his hand and let him lead me. F
And for those of you who talk to me on here, I am so grateful and promise I will heal one day and we can look back on this time and hear a bell ring, saying this work shall be done. Not ALL work, but his work of healing from this experience. Does that make sense?
What color are you painting. The phone bill must have been very high?
Absolutely that makes sense. God's work isn't done until the day we go home to be with Him. And your kids will always need you. My mom still misses her dad, and he didn't go home to be with the Lord until he was 101. God has amazing things planned for you.
Jer. 29:11
"I know the plans I have for you" declares the Lord God Almighty. "Plans to prosper you and not harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future."
Another way that I can see your growth is your statement that you can face God today and say that you are good enough to receive His blessings. He is so happy to bestow those on you and thrilled that you recognize that.
Well, the phone bill wasn't too high, but it was for a college kid. And my living room isn't very big. The color is a dusty lavender. My DDs picked it to go with a color in the carpet. It will make the wooden book cases stand out more and make the room "warmer". At least, that's what the girls tell me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I guess I HADN'T looked at it THAT WAY. I certainly don't want to be SELFISH. G-d knows I have behaved enough of that in MY LIFE.
I don't want to destroy my children. But Mimi, did you ever think that if you weren't here your WH would shake himself up and the H would come back and be the father your kids needed?
Growing up, my parents pitted me and my sister against each other. My parents we them against us. I was raised to believe that your marriage is way more important than your children. Because it's your marriage that shows your children what is good in life, stability, family, etc.
There is a part of me, when I am really down and at my lowest, that is mortified that I failed my H so bad. And my kids are suffering because he isn't in their life. If me being gone would make my children's life better by it affecting my WH so much he comes back to the man he was. I just think that is just as selfless. Do you see what I mean.
I know there are NO gaurantees that would happen and like I said, I promised G-d this weekend, that I won't do anything until I get my kids grown up and gone. Here's the thing. I imagine that in 3 1/2 years I am going to be an entirely different person. And that won't even be an option for me.
Somehow though, this pain is taking me to a point of exhaustion and debilitation and I need to really come up with some defense mechanisms to get me through that.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I love it when you give me scripture. It calms my soul deeply. Like Psalm 23 and your bracelet. It restores my soul. And like as the prayers says - the soul you have given me is a pure one.
Going through this horrible experience allowed me the opportunity to cleanse my soul and be able to face G-d. I wasn't able to do that before.
Isn't it amazing how God's word calms us down and still speaks to us today. I love that.
I am so glad you made that clear-about the 3 1/2 years. I completely agree. In 3 1/2 years you will be a completely different person. And God has plans for that woman no matter what happens with your WH.
I don't think that any WS would suddenly "snap out of it" if something happens to the BS. Mine didn't. Instead, he left his kids to help their mom deal with cancer and chemo while he pursued his A again. In the end he lost so much. He lost his kids' respect whereas I can proudly say that I am listed as their first "hero" on their MySpace pages. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I love to get your scriptures and then check them out in my Tanankh. It helps me to read things sometimes differently but have them be as impactful.
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Jer. 29:11
"I know the plans I have for you" declares the Lord God Almighty. "Plans to prosper you and not harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future."
My Tanakh says it this way - For I am mindful of the plans I have made concerning you - declares the Lord - plans for your welfar, not for disaster, to give you a hopeful future.
Jer 29:12 When you call Me, and come and pray to Me, I will give heed to you.
Jer 29:13 You will search for Me and find Me, if only you seek Me wholeheartedly.
Jer 29:14 I will be at hand for you - declares the Lord - and I will restore your fortunes.
I have to be honest. I hope my restoration of fortunes is my M. That is the most precious thing I have.
On a simpler note: I am a rock n' roll girl. Can you imagine that. My fav's are Pink Floyd, Yes, Rush and Styx. REO Speedwagon just came out with a new album or at least I just saw it. Get these lyrics on the new CD I just bought.
Find your own way home I need love, like water I need truth to soak me to the bone I need my friends all around me now 'cause I'm not doing real well when I'm alone You see, my best friend, at lest I thought she was Has found herself a new friend back at home I'm drifting here on what's left of my heart And my spirit is floating like a stone Now my faith is an illusion My dreams some passing ship I'm reaching out for answers But I'm losing my grip So tell me, are you gonna go the distance Step into the cold hard rain Are you gonna keep fightin through And come back again I'll forgive your trespasses Ask your mercy for my own I've gone as far as I can go Now it's up to you to find your own way home I need time, but there is no time My emotions have dipped into the red And this vision that I just can't wash away Is tearing at my head And I believe in redemption There is hope for every soul But I can't wait forever for a miracle Some days I feel like letting go I've hung on for so long Do I need to walk away To see how it feels when I'm gone Find your own way home
And the other song: I Needed to Fall So close to given up Never been before so broken Can I hold on long enough Are there wrods yet left unspoken Can I rise above this burning sea Or am I human after all Maybe I'm just high thatn a man should be Maybe I needed to fall I needed to fall, and come back stronger I needed to crawl to find my way And I preay we can look back on it all Knowing that I neded to fall in love with you So tired of living up To an image laid upon me Can I ever be enough It all seems so far beyond me And I take this weight upon my shoulders While I appear to stand so tall Thinking I can carry the world forever Maybe I needed to fall There is just so much a man can bare Until he starts to find it hard to care And baby, I'm almost there I needed to to fall, and come back stronger.
These songs are resonating with me very deeply and I love the tunes which really help. If you are an REO fan I suggest this CD very much so.
I hope you got that thought out of your mind. Please give yourself more credit for what you bring here. You are open and honest, considerate of others feelings and beliefs, but mostly you seem to have genuine caring feelings in your heart.
We need to keep in mind that they are the problem, and they will not grow so long as they are in the fog. As for us we grow daily and will keep growing.
Let's all hope and pray that our 2008 year will end up better than how 2007 ended. I hop that we will be able to have a chat at this time next year, but instead of talking about desperation, we talk about how our recoveries are going.
I hope you got that thought out of your mind. Please give yourself more credit for what you bring here. You are open and honest, considerate of others feelings and beliefs, but mostly you seem to have genuine caring feelings in your heart.
I do honestly care about the people on here. In many ways, some of you have become a part of my life and my family. I don't have much family and you all have been here through the darkest time in my life. My "real" friends and family are just upset with me because they want me to leave my M.
I believe that the help we are getting on here is to give away to others as it is so freely given to us. We are to carry the message to others who are suffering and be their hope like Mimi, JT, Smartie, Bugs, Mark, etc are for me and those for you. We are truly blessed.
I made a vow to G-d that I wouldn't do anything until my children were raised and on their own which is at least 3 1/2 years from now. I would imagine that 3 1/2 years from now, me and YOU will be completely different people, healed in ways what we can't begin to imagine.
So can I promise G-d I won't kill myself ever. NO, but I can promise to not have it be a reality for a LONG LONG Time and I will leave the REST UP to HIM.
My life is in his hands. My soul is in his keeping, morning, noon and night. I think this is said at a Shabbat service. I can't believe I could think this one up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have a HARD time remembering they are the problem. When that WH babble starts going or I see how "happy" he is, it makes me think I am crazy? That I was totally the problem and now that he is away from me, he is finally happy. But then I think about how he went to HIS OWN soccer game instead of WATCHING HIS CHILDREN and I realize how sick he truly is. It's almost like someone who is in the late stages of alzheimers. Who they were once is unrecognizable and who they are now is nothing of who they were. The only blessing is THEY CAN COME BACK AGAIN. THEY JUST NEED TO FALL. And G-d is working hard on their side of the street to help them fall. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So we could take comfort that G-d is working hard for us.
I personally think that we should all meet and take a MB cruise somewhere? Wouldn't that be so fun to do? Whose up for it?
I love cruises. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You have come very, very far and are doing really, really, well.
Yet,,you have me worried. Never ever is suicide an option for a woman of faith. Not now, not ever. As Mimi says, it is the ultimate selfish act. AND, it is you saying that YOU know better than God, which I KNOW you do not believe. I worry about you writing that it is still a thought for you. Please, please do not allow yourself to even entertain this thought as an option EVER!
Even at the lowest of times in our lives when we feel it would be 'easier', God is there with us. We need only to give it over to Him and He will see us through. You've done that already. Keep it going, knowing that taking the choice for our lives out of His hands is not for us.
You know that now or 10 years from now, there are lots more fabulous cruises in your future!!
I've never been on a cruise. How many have you taken and where did you go?
Ok. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Today, I can make the promise that I will raise my kids and get them out on their own and that's as far as I can go today. But remember, that's at least 3 1/2 years away and a whole lot will change. I can't say forever on anything so I am playing a mind game with myself so that I don't feel so out there all alone. Does that make sense?
Would you like to go on a cruise? Like Mimi suggested, maybe a Disney cruise.
I did go once, it was an amazing trip with H. We went to Carribean and had an incredible time.
The sun if FINALLY out and my spirits have lifted a bit. It's a hard day for me, because tomorrow is my anniversary and everyone celebrates that moment at midnight.
Remind me again that there is healing around the corner for us and one day when the sun shines the hurt won't be so exposed and deep?
G-d is really working something huge out in us and one day we are going to be OK and HAPPY? I wish you the happiest this year and hope that the blessings G-d has for you begin to happen.
Mimi, I emailed the Harley's for an appt next week. I'll keep you posted.
Hang in there. Tomorrow will be hard for you. My anniversary was last Spring. At the time I thought we were in recovery only to find out that WH spent that day with OW. So that was very hard, and since your WH lives with OW it will also probably happen to you too. But you will get through the day and keep going just like I did. We have to.
Skins... so your boys beat our boys. Fortunately I missed the game. Congratulations though!
Sweetie, while you're going through IT and even afterwards for a long while, you're going to pass through all kinds of milestone dates. They hurt. They really do.
But if you can look at your life in the whole scheme of things (imagine holding your arms outstretched to measure your life), this short time of pain (imagine holding your thumb and index finger closely together), is but a blip.
Eventually, you will have many other memories of happiness that will override the bad memories that are being created today.
You will get through this. We're here for you. On Wednesday you can put Tuesday away. We'll help.
Thank you, and I am here for you too. I want to hear all about your celebration.
PM, They did win, thank you They won by 21 points which was the number of the player who was murdered 4 weeks ago. They held them to 1 rushing yard, 1 yard. I cried the whole game watching them. It was like watching G-d wrap his love around them and pulling them through their horrible time. And now they get to come to Seattle and they will be close to ME.
I am keeping myself occupied today doing busy work at school and finishing up a project for the principal. I LOVE MY JOB.
I know all the FIRSTS are killers. But my anniversary was just something I always made sacred for us. We would go to the store purposefully to brag about it being our day. I'm imagining what you are suggesting. Thank you. Well after this all I have left is my birthday, Passover, Mother's Day and D-Day which was the next day. Then the firsts are over. I know they are sick and lost, but dang, this pain is just horrid.
Do you know how BLESSED to feel that I have all of you here. I can't imagine how people could get through this without this website. I don't if I would have made it this far, truly.
She's right, you know. All you can do is one day at a time. W2S and I are through the worst of it, and we still live by that motto. That's how he/we keep from getting overwhelmed. And you know that the other choice is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, whether you are a woman of faith or not. And it doesn't matter how grown your children are-they would be scarred for life. You are their MOM and a great person at that-the world would be worse off without you in it!
I couldn't read your whole thread, but I read the first couple pages and then skimmed through some of the rest. You have got some great help and support here. Helping other people like you are with TMTS will also make you feel better- I know I do. I had gotten myself pretty bummed the last few days (long story-health issues) but just coming here last night and today is already lifting my spirits!
I'm not sure many people other than my kids would miss me. BUT, I WON'T ABANDON my kids, not like their dad has.
I know the saying one day at a time well. It's just that sometimes that one day is more like one milisecond, literally. And thank G-d I am going back to work on Wednesday. I feel better just busying myself here alone at school.
I am WAY BLESSED with the help I am getting and in many ways I am starting to feel like I may not be able to offer the what to do, but I care and I will be there for those who need it. Sometimes that is just the best anyways, knowing you are absolutely alone. And we are all in this together because WE KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND. The real world doesn't and they think we are NUTS.
You will never be alone as long as you are here. You have made many friends and inspired many who didn't know if they had it in them to even try I'm one of those).
HE LOOSES IN THIS DEAL!!! He just dosne't know it yet.
My F thanks St.Anne everyday for the chance my M gave him. He came out of the fog when he reilized that we would be ok without him.
Please feel free to use it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I actually was thinking about how people on here have become so important to me and I care about you and them. Just think, if this hadn't happened, we all would have never met and our lives would be a little more emptier.
You know, TMTS, WE ALL have it INSIDE us, we just have to tap into G-d to access it. For all of us who are BLESSED enough to have come upon this website are a part of G-ds world that LOVES people and helps them WALK through the MOST painful experience in life that you can. It's G-d that gives me the inspiration to just get out of bed. And it's people like Mimi who gave me something to do that would help me get through another day. This makes us feel so helpless and she turned it around and put my energy into something I could do.
I remember the day she told me how to call him and ask him out. I remember freaking out that I couldn't possibly do it. When I think that now I can just walk up to him and grab his hand and kiss him lightly on the lips. LOL. THAT is progress.
I am NOT able to believe that totally yet that he is LOSING if he doesn't come home. I DO KNOW he is MISSING out on HIS CHILDREN. ME, well let's just say I am praying for that point one day.
I don't want to scare you or bring back bad memories of your childhood. Not after what you have done for me.
When I was at the gym exercising I started to have a melt down on the machine as I was watching General Hospital. It dawned on me that July 06 I lost my favorite uncle to brain and lung cancer. When I came home from that trip to New York, we left immediately for a trip to California for a lacrosse tournament. It was on the way home that WH (he was that person by then, if I am really honest), and I stoppped at the college we went to and walked around. He told me that he couldn't see his life with me or without me and he wasn't at choice. So we started going to counseling, only I didn't have the true picture of what was going on. I just had more of his mind games playing with me and they pushed me away, I couldn't fight the games anymore. Not after all these years of him knowing it was killing me inside.
In September he did the ILYBNIL with you line. He so started pulling away but would NEVER come clean with me. I asked him a few times if he was having an affair and he knew that I would not say I didn't trust him because then our counseling wouldn't be working. Our daughter graduated from culinary school in September and she got involved with people who we didn't like.
Soon after, our son got busted for stealing. We were dying financially because WH and I were spending money that I couldn't keep up with and it was stressing me out. I was so sick in my own dry drunk as well, and became someone that I wasn't.
In January we started having more serious financial problems and our DD stopped making payments on her car. You see, H got mad at me a year or so earlier and went out and bought this car for DD and co-signed the loan. It was his way of creating chaos. It was also in January, I found out my MS was failing in school and I asked my H to talk to him. They got into a huge fight and MS ran away and was gone for a week.
In February, after numerous attempts to negotiate with DD on her car payment and giving her a ultimatum, she left home after we got into a huge fight and she pushed me down and blew out my knee. The cops were called and the entire process brought me down to a restraining order against my precious child. As you can imagine she was gone and I had to go through the pain of maybe losing her forever. Two months later, my H walks out on me.
Family is the MOST important thing in my life. I don't have parents, I never had grandparents and my sister can't have anything to do with me. My friends who I thought of as my sister's have abadoned me because I am NOT doing what they want by walking away from my M.
Last year on New Year's I was so happy because my kids were all home and I was celebrating my anniversary with the man I loved with every part of my being.
This year, he doesn't even give a hoot whether I am alive or dead. I can't drink and make the pain go away and yet, if it weren't for you taking the time to walk me through what I can do to somehow make it through this I honestly don't know if I could have survived.
SO I PROMISE YOU, I WON'T KILL MYSELF, NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW, NOT EVER. OK Topic closed.
I am truly crawling for surivival and praying to G-d. OK....
I am not brushing this over lightly. Today I got a sense that this board is saving my life because I am really starting to know that I can be of service to others who are hurting.
This story of wanting to die so bad, will be one way for me to offer hope to someone else and help them walk through this pain because I understand it and they won't be alone either.
I care about you too, and I WOULD NEVER HURT you, willingly, NEVER. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Now, on to the goat. I HATE the taste of goat. I had a pet goat year ago, who grew up to be a BIG MALE GOAT. He had an annoying habit of peeing on his face. The smell of the urine would get all over him, and all over anyone who petted him. You couldn't wash it off with soap.
So goat to me tastes just like that smell. Sorry if that is TMI.
I would be surprised if there isn't something in the Bible about not eating goat.
OMG, LOL that is gross. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I wouldn't eat it either.
I don't know about Goat, but for sure no pig, crab, shrimp or lobster.
What kind of feet do they have?
Hey, can I ask a question.
Do you think the fact that WH has nothing to do with me or as little as possible is a good sign or bad sign. I mean, how do you just walk away from a M and not try and make it better for the other person. I know just the addiction and the fog. But have you ever seen what sitch makes it more likely someone wakes up or not?
You said "This year, he doesn't even give a hoot whether I am alive or dead."
And then you say "I mean, how do you just walk away from a M and not try and make it better for the other person. I know just the addiction and the fog."
Your mind is going where it has no business, no control, no truth.
Bring it into the present...put it on you. See where you are right now...for this is right now...all things come to pass...don't lose this moment.
Where believer got her goat gotten by a goat...and is cooking one as we speak. (In the South, the tradition is black-eyed peas...they don't seem so bad compared to goat, IMHO.)
Where you have friends who love you, read your posts...feel for you in your struggle...know how great a loss you are to your sister and friends...and can agree to disagree with you...and still listen and be here for ya.
Where's your gratitude list? Can you see where your struggles this past year and a half with your children were also part of the WS fog? They know...just as your sons did...though they got proof first...it's the lying that swirls our thoughts...reasonable to jump into the past or the future when those lies are in the present.
Don't do it.
You no longer have a restraining order against DD, correct? Did she do her amends? Did you work on your forgiveness? Same for your DS's? Have you looked at your own love, your loving perspective and beliefs? Do you see you as the miracle you really are?
Believer, I am so sorry about the things you went through way back when...skinsgal, B is a testiment to what can happen when you find the strength to pick yourself up and start again. I cannot even imagine the pain, or the courage it must have taken to walk away from everything after something so awful and build a new life from scratch. No wonder you chose "Believer!"
skins-I am sorry for all the heartache you have had to endure this year. You will get through it. You are strong enough, and you have so much to offer here.
I've heard many vets say that him being gone and with the OP may be the best thing, because it really makes them have to be completely compatible...something waywards aren't really famous for (nor the OP). So, the less he cake-eats and has to rely on her to fill all of his ENs, the sooner he will see that she is not capable. The fantasy will collapse.
Thank you. My gratitude list hasn't been done for awhile. I might go do that right now.
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Can you see where your struggles this past year and a half with your children were also part of the WS fog?
Without a single doubt.
I'm trying to NOT go there. Being here is really helping.
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You no longer have a restraining order against DD, correct?
Yes, that was one of the first things that got taken care of after D-day. She and I have worked through everything and saw things for what they were. We are completely healed and actually stronger than ever.
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Did you work on your forgiveness?
There was NOTHING to forgive. I believe when your kids are struggling you are naturally the one they take it out on. There was nothing to forgive, besides I could have handled things differently as well. And I see that I am NO LONGER that ANGRY person who needed to control.
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Same for your DS's?
There was nothing to forgive there. He was struggling and handled it the way the only way he knew how. It was wrong. Oh, forgot to mention that right after he ran away about two weeks later he owned up to smoking pot a few times. It was funny, my WH got so angry he threw the clicker straight across the room and it hit and bruised me. His anger was beyond the normal I remember thinking. More WH stuff I suppose.
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Have you looked at your own love, your loving perspective and beliefs?
I don't think so, I don't think I understand what you mean. Can you please elaborate?
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Do you see you as the miracle you really are?
NO
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Are you looking at you through God's eyes?
How can I do that, I'm not G-d. I don't know what he sees. I do KNOW he has FAITH in my capacity to LOVE people and FAITH in my capacity to Stand for my M, but I don't know what he sees.
I wish I could, maybe I wouldn't be so hard on myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You MUST stop blaming yourself for your WHs A. I don't know him, but I'm sure that he wasn't meeting all of your ENs either. I don't know many marriages where each other's ENs are being met day in and day out. It doesn't mean you should have an A though. Marriage, and kids, and bills, well, it's all tough. Still doesn't mean a spouse should have an A.
You did not fail your WH, so please stop blaming yourself. And Skins, he is not happy, trust me. He can't possibly be happy there, he is just not admitting it. What does he have there to be happy about? If he isn't happy with himself first, no one else can make him happy. You can't pin your happiness on another person. Please, work on yourself, make yourself happy and you will be more attractive to him.
I know, I don't always practice what I preach, but it's easier to give advice to someone else <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Actually he withheld my most important EN - SF. He did this since March 06 saying I wasn't safe and can't be trusted. I begged him to help me understand what I needed to do, but he was the WH and just looked at me with those glazed over eyes.
I would tell him I'm dying inside and this is making me crazy. He just stared at me with glazed over eyes.
I knew of the hurts that existed inside him. I tried everything to get him to search out his answers and find peace. Ultimately he just blames me and our M on all the sadness and hurt. He completely believes she is his salvation like he believed I was. But I could NEVER be that.
I sent him an ecard. I doubt he will even look at it. He was just online and couldn't even say happy new year or congratulations on the Skins winning. NOTHING. It's funny, but in order to get online you don't have to go to gmail like he does. He probably was just trying to hurt me on purpose by seeing I am online and knows I would love to talk to him. But then he leaves. He is so self absorbed and in his addiction. He needs his FIX. Back to binging on her. OH G-d, I HATE this.
Please tell me that my H could possibly still exist in there. How can I know that he isn't too FAR GONE and just won't fight for survival. I'm a human being, he knows how deeply I feel, how can he just coldly ignore me like I am a piece of crap? Stinkin Thinkin
Stop it B. I just have to pray harder and ask G-d for his help and see where that takes me. I have to pray for G-d to reach my H in some way. And most importantly, I need to pray to G-d to help me get through this second right now.
How are you doing Chai, what are you doing for yourself?
Hey, just thought you should know you have lots of family now. You've got lots of sisters here and fellow travelers on this journey.
And you ARE a miracle! God made you a miracle the minute He knew you were coming into the world. Just like it says in one of my favorite Psalms -
"For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, you eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
How precious to me are your thoughts, O God! How vast the sum of them! Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand. When I awake, I am still with you." v 13-18.
I love how David words this psalm, that God's thoughts about us outnumber the grains of sand.
You are also a gift to many here-sharing your encouragement and enthusiasm. Especially about your beloved Skins. (I may even watch that game, just to honor you)<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I love you too. I'm sorry I am having such a rough go tonight.
I won't get to watch the game until I get home after working a wedding fair all day. How fun is that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am heading down to the hotel on Thursday to meet up with the team and get autographs. I need to be closer to them.
Happy New Year JT,
May it be full of blessings for you and your family. Not to mention continued good health.
I don't see me as a gift, but I'll keep working at it.
I'm with you on the rough go thing tonight. Hang in there this too will pass.
You ARE a miracle... your love for others are obvious even in the way you treat your WH. He has done unforgivable things, but you look pass them and worry about how he's doing. That takes someone very special, of which you are.
On top of that you like football, Pink Floyd, Yes and has found g-d. Geeze, add hockey to that and your getting close to the perfect woman.
We are here with you! Going to play a game with the kids, check in later to let you know how things went.
I certainly know how you feel. I feel that way too, but it is just something that we can't control. I've also wondered how my WH could just walk away from 34 years, and from a person that he has known practically all of his life.
It hurts. I realize that I'll live either way, but the pain will never go away.
What am I doing? Sewing that other pillow sham. What a fun NYE. Maybe next year I'll get a life, huh??
Yes, you are right, this is something we can't control.
Chai, no I can't imagine this pain ever going away either.
You have a life. It's just not what we have planned right now. Or maybe it is. Maybe we are just learning about how precious love, marriage and feelings are because one day somehow, we will be whole again and not just exising in life, but really appreciating it all.
I talked to SmartiePants on the phone. She and I have talked for a long time now. She is such an amazing woman, with such strength.
She and I really think the cruise idea is a good one.
We can't go until September or after because I have school until August <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. So I'm out of commission for any extended vacation until after graduation.
And if things continue to go as they are, I'll also be divorced by then too--so I'll need a cruise to lighten the mood!!!
Actually not all day. When I went to work I really enjoyed being there working on a project for my boss. I had my ipod up loud and sang the whole time.
I hit the big 80 lbs today. Woohoo. The weight loss has definetly dropped off and that's a drag. But like my M, it's in his hands.
What do things do you like to do? Mimi asked me what I always wanted to learn or do? How about you?
In hindsight, looking back it would have been helpful to think of PLAN A as CREATING A MEMORY of you for your WS to keep while in PLAN B.
If I look at it this way, I AM doing a GOOD PLAN A.
I have done things and reacted in ways that I KNOW has absolutely BLOWN him away. The look on his face when I brought him the camera was one of pure shock.
I finally gave a total to how much weight I have lost and he even said good job.
So, can we start to recap a little of what I have accomplished so I can address those areas that are a little weak and go from there. Make sense to you?
Yes, serious about the cruise. We could all get together for a weekend to plan it, meet each other, etc.
Skins, I'm not so close to you but I think I'm close to Smartie. I'm in Ohio. Smartie, we could meet somewhere in WV for coffee!! Think they have Starbucks in WV?
I'm game for anything actually. I love to travel and love taking weekend mini vacas, so I'll go anywhere.
Sounds good to me. I've been to Portland, but not Seattle. Yes, I know that SB is from Seattle. Would love to visit you there, so we'll have to plan an outing to Seattle as well. Get the REAL Starbucks there!!!! Tall, one-pump Mocha with two Splenda and whipped cream. Uuummmm.
I'm going to give up for the night. My dog already rang in the new year and went up to bed. If I don't get up there soon, she'll steal my spot. See you all tomorrow....
That means alot to me that you would stop by. Did your W let you know that I was hoping to ask you some questions? Are you ok with my picking your brain.
I want to congratulate you and tell you how impressed I am with what you have done. I think that G-d really smiles hugely when he thinks of you listening and coming home.
I know there is always hope, but what makes you think there is hope in my sitch?
Queenie, you OK? I know this one was going to be hard, please check in. For What it worth, as my F said.... Happy New Year, it's got to be better than last year. We need to believe this as hard as it is.
My thoughts are with you today. Extra prayers for you.
I'm ok. Kinda of exhausted actually but afraid to go to sleep because I don't want to wake up during the night.
Yes this year can only be better. D-day is already happened so that can't happen again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> At least I don't think so.
I appreciate the extra prayers and need them too. Thank you.
I'm doing ok, glad the day is over so I can get back to working on me. I've been doing half the running I usually do and haven't done any kind of strength work out in one and a half weeks. I've also got allot of reading to catch up on. So back to working on me.
I do still hurt in the pit of my stomach, and the blizzard continues, but at least I'm doing it with a smile on my face.
She is very much conflicted because she got tears come up when we said Happy New Year. I really don't know what to make of her behavior tonight. One minute she's in a brawl with ODD, next she crying on my shoulder telling me I shouldn't be this nice, to going bowling, playing a board game then skipping next door as soon as she could. What a mess!
Yeah, same with me on the sleepless night. I fall asleep very easily. However, if I wake up too much during the night then I have nightmares. And those scare me. I hate sleeping alone.
TMTS,
I gotta ask. She is smoking pot? Does she have an addiction problem? Remember this A is an addiction. So, could she be using and it be a concern?
It's something I need to keep under consideration because she has been using more since D-day. Before that she would join in with me but could take it or leave it, but now with her 'real' stress levels heightened I guess that it's very much a possibility. That being said at this point I don't think she is, but the only measuring stick I have is me, and I was in pretty deep. Daily, and two - four per day on the weekend. She is doing it two - three times per week now, but had gone down to once every couple of weeks after I quit.
I really need to keep an eye on this aspect, see if she is getting worse. But like all addictions it's something that she must realize herself, no matter what she would tell me about our finances, or the fact that it was helping me withdraw, I didn't listen. It was only when I realized that I had a problem that my mind was free enough to make the decision to stop.
If there is one thing I can remember as good in 2007 it’s the fact that I did finally stop smoking pot. I’ve had a couple of relapses (Genesis, and a couple during Christmas time), but the big difference is that I don’t wake up thinking about when I will have my next one. The second thing is talking with my Father about his past (FWH) and letting go of the repressed pain that that caused.
Pot was my drug of choice. I woke up and smoked many bong hits before I even got out of bed. I stole for it, cheated people for it and did so much that wasn't characteristic of me.
The thing about addictions and somehow I am going to have to figure out a way to say this to WH is, and I think it was Mimi maybe someone else, but when the behavior becomes destructive to those you love, you MIGHT have a problem.
She is for sure drug affected and therefore some of the edginess etc that you are noticing could be the need for the drug as well. Vets, please correct me here if I am wrong.
It's been so long since I got high, but I tell ya. I sure wouldn't mind it to waste me away. The problem is... one hit is to many and a thousand wouldn't be enough. I have no doubt I would end up DEAD if I drank or used again. I miss it and G-d knows I want to escape right now, but I might as well take a gun and shoot my brains out because that's what drinking and drugging would get me.
I haven't posted to you in a long time. This whole week has been a stinky week for me as well. I have backslided so much that sometimes I don't feel I can get back to a place of peace.
Sleep I have the same problem, can fall asleep but staying asleep is another thing.
She is for sure drug affected and therefore some of the edginess etc that you are noticing could be the need for the drug as well.
You could be onto something here. I would become edgy if I didn't have it for more than 2-3 days, sometimes less. And it was a gradual thing.
The other thing to consider is that as far as I could tell the OM is out of town visiting his dying F (That's the story her told her anyway) and she could be in full withdrawal from him and using more to make up for her other addiction. She has been doing it more in the last month.
You know it's weird, your right. I have held on to this for about a week. I have always felt that time moved way to fast except for this week. Every year I thought from Christmas to New Year's was the longest week. Hmm.
I'm just sad and numb. In many ways, I am just in shock that he didn't try to contact me. That he didn't try and wish me a Happy New Year. I'm empty inside.
Ok, about myself. Oh TMTS, you need to go to bed then. I am so NOT in that place. I carry such scars of what I could have done in my M. The signs that were there I ignored because I was so stupid to think that he wouldn't cheat. Use, yes. Cheat NOT MY HUSBAND.
To wrap my mind around the fact that he is making love to a crack addict with hep c on my anniversary and telling her how he loves her and pledging his undying love to her is beyond my comprehension. To reflect on the year and remember how the WH pushed me away again and again by withholding my deepest EN and then blaming me over and over again like there was something I could do to change things.
I'm angry because I didn't get a chance to fight because I allowed those games to drive me away and he KNEW that would happen and he used it to his advantage. Just like an addict will use whatever they can to get their fix. And I am scared to death there are NO MORE CHANCES. He blindsided me, he has taken away my safety, my security and my M. And he doesn't care one bit, he only cares about her and creating a new life with her because she will make him happy.
And yet, I love him more than I loved him the day I married him. He is life to me and I miss him. I think this is another night of holding Torah to fall asleep.
Please TMTS,
Head to bed. I'll be ok. I am just reading and being quiet alone in my room. My boys are home and they are watching tv.
Queenie, I know that I would want someone to talk to at a moment like this. My girls are still up plying on the playstation. So I'm still going to be up for a little (Can't sleep anyway).
Oh how I wish I could transport myself to his place and slap him silly for you. Unfortunately we're trying to make sense of the senseless. That being said, we must not give up hope. Can we make a deal and dedicate 2008 to hope? Hope that your WS will come out of the fog. Hope that we will have the strength to make it through the days. Hope that things can only get better.
I shed tears for you now because I think you do not deserve this and yet you keep faith that your H will one day return. If find it commendable that you are doing this. I know you will tell me that it is but by the grace of g-d but g-d also gave you free will, and from my perspective it is this free will of yours that is getting you through this as much as your faith in g-d's work.
I want you to believe that you are worthy and that your efforts are not wasted. You already are a better person because of this, and that is something he can never take away from you.
Extra special prayers are going to be said for you today.
Thank you TMTS for sticking with me. I will NOT forget it and will do it anytime with you.
Do you know that there is not a SINGLE PERSON, who cares enough to talk to my WH and tell him he is being a fool. They just say I am better off without him.
How about we dedicate 2008 to a year of solidifying FAITH. I NEED to DEVELOP my FAITH to unshakable proportion. TO COMPLETELY TRUST G-D, and remember at all times, that no matter what I am seeing, G-d is working on my WH side of the street working something out in my WH so he can come home and heal with me.
Yes, we all have free will, but G-d KNEW me, and HE KNEW I would react this way because it's who I AM. I am LOVE, and I LOVE my H. I am the ONLY PERSON who completely BELIEVES and KNOWS the good that exists. And for that I can't let G-d down. Because G-d is over there working as hard as he can trying to open my WH's eyes. Each time my H destroyed trust I had for him, I came back with love and a desire to keep working on our M. G-d knew how I would react.
I don't believe myself to be a special person at all. However, I am becoming the woman G-d has always planned for me to be, and I am a completely different person. I don't live in a dry drunk any longer. I LOVE with all MY HEART and SOUL. I FEEL the deepest pain imaginable and just want the chance to create a new M with my H. And he anger really doesn't exist in me any more.
That is so TRUE, my WH can't take what I have become away from me. I can only willingly give it up. And that's NOT about to happen.
And special prayers for you as well. How are you doing? What are you kids doing up at this hour playing?
I guess I'm lucky in a way, everybody we know has tried to talk her into reconsidering and that she was making a huge mistake. But the fog is too thick.
Ok I'm with you on solidifying faith (As with faith comes hope anyway). I'm still at the beginning of my excursion so I don't know where I will end up, but it sold be an interesting journey.
Oh and by the way I will ignore the whole I'm not special line because I just don't buy it.
Kids are in bed now (I know it was late for them, but it was a special night). WW just came in as well, watch a movie with the neighbor (She's the only friend she has left, because they don't talk about our issues).
I'm hanging in there. I cannot bring myself to accept this in my heart. Something inside of me hangs on to the hope that she will come out of the fog before she moves. But I know that it will probably happen, and that is a tough on to accept. Then I work this plan based on faith that it is sinking in and will one day give me a chance to win my W love back. I don't even want to think of it never happening.
Oh and by the way I will ignore the whole I'm not special line because I just don't buy it.
LOL, this is progress not perfection. I'll take it back.
I can't fall asleep and I have been praying to G-d for a sign on what to do. Asking him if WH is TRULY HAPPY with her to let me know and I will let go and move on. Not because I want to, but because I LOVE him and WANT him to be HAPPY. I really mean this too. But guess what?
My daughter just called completely distressed and hysterical. She got into a fight with her boyfriend and hit him. I guess there is blood everywhere. He is drunk and she is "tipsy". I have NO DOUBT she has alcholic tendencies. Of all my children she is the ONE hurting the most over this b/c she sees how her dad has changed and she MISSES him. She feels completely alone, is absolutely struggling for money, can't buy anything on credit because she has a repo on her record and her student loans aren't getting paid. The loan people are after my H as well.
Please forgive me, but whoever asked me about forgiving my DD about the fight in February, the weirdest thing happened. It's like she is broken as a person right now and she apologized from the depths of her soul for what happened. She has NEVER done that before. NEVER. Why tonight, what's going on.
Mimi, is this what my H will be like when he finally breaks and realizes all that he is lost? Is G-d helping me to understand how to work through this as G-ds servant instead of fixing it for her?
I offered to go get her. I really want her to get out of that relationship. I like him, but they are dangerous to each other and when you add in drinking, well you can imagine what happens.
She said she needed to stay and clean up all the blood. So, I did what comes to me naturally today. I reminded her of the time she told me she talked to G-d and he told her what to do. I told her to listen to me.... Ask G-d for help, ask him for a clear mind, a calm heart and a soft tongue. I repeated it over and over and over for her to hear and begged her to talk to G-d and ask him for help and those qualities. She said she would.
So, whoever is out there, please pray for my DD that she receives a clear mind, a calm heart and a soft tongue. She is in a volatile situation and needs G-ds love and shelter.
I get how my CHILDREN NEED me. My children need a COMPLETE FAMILY. Somehow I have to dig deep inside my soul and muster all the FAITH and STRENGTH through G-ds shelter to FIGHT this MONSTER and LOCATE my H and have G-d bring him home. For my FAMILY I can NOT GIVE UP until G-ds will is done and my H is home and our FAMILY is complete and on the road to healing.
So, I need to somehow throw out the pitty potty crude and step into the strength of the Proverbs 31 woman and become this NO MATTER how BAD it LOOKS, NO MATTER HOW HARD it WILL BE, and walk in FAITH that G-ds will be done in his time.
So, let's see, Plan A for a little longer. Mimi, can we take an accounting of what I have accomplished so I can see where I need to focus before I got dark.
G-d NEEDS ME. I WON'T LET HIM DOWN because I am tired or weak. HE WILL FEED MY STRENGTH. I just have to keep reaching for him.
Happy 2008 everyone. Let's claim it will be a year full of blessings and trials for sure. But that together, all of us together will help each other through it and move forward in G-ds world and as we receive those blessings, so can we shout the glory of G-d and give him all that glory.
And with that I say amen and pray for a little shut eye. I told her to call me in an hour, that's about 45 minutes from now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
That means alot to me that you would stop by. Did your W let you know that I was hoping to ask you some questions? Are you ok with my picking your brain.
yes she did. not much brain there to pick though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
I know there is always hope, but what makes you think there is hope in my sitch?
Because I choose to see hope today although I am a completly broken man. Adonai gave me hope to replace my emptiness. I see brokeness everywhere I look now, but I am also filled with the hope of knowing Adonai is greater and will restore all brokeness and fill the emptyness of a soul in His time.
Because I choose to see hope today although I am a completly broken man. I see brokeness everywhere I look now, but I am also filled with the hope of knowing Adonai is greater and will restore all brokeness and fill the emptyness of a soul in His time.
This surprise me a little. I knew you were broken before and right after your W took you back. Now, you have your family intact and everything is going pretty much as well as it can be. Remorse and regretful...yes. But, why are you still feeling broken and all those emptiness?
Because I choose to see hope today although I am a completly broken man. I see brokeness everywhere I look now, but I am also filled with the hope of knowing Adonai is greater and will restore all brokeness and fill the emptyness of a soul in His time.
This surprise me a little. I knew you were broken before and right after your W took you back. Now, you have your family intact and everything is going pretty much as well as it can be. Remorse and regretful...yes. But, why are you still feeling broken and all those emptiness?
I GUARANTEE it's NOT because he misses his adulteress other woman. I'm sure he's realized by now she was just an illusion and a prostitute.
Ooops...no need to offend prostitutes...at least they get paid.
Maybe a bit more like a vacuum that occasionally speaks...only cheaper.
BTW, I have a distinct feeling ba,stillsame, et. al. may just actually go away when TST/Sexymammabear disappear. I'm not suggesting or telling you to go...but you could take your support more private. Email me at the address below if you are unsure with how or what I mean.
Thank you Mr.W. tst has been emailing with MEDC for awhile now.
This place has literally been a life line for me, and I hate the thought of not being able to post here. But, yes, I have considered, and still consider it.
tst and I are hoping the attempted highjack to Skinsgal's thread doesn't happen.
So, I started a new thread addressing StillSame/BA to go away. Now...back to Skinsgal.
I haven't read your latest posts, SG, but please know you continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. You are an amazing woman, and your WS is a true ALIEN!
Hope comes not from faith, but from the source of all hope, in whom we place our faith.
Faith in mankind, faith in ourselves, faith in each other, faith in some process, or even faith in promises come up empty...It is He who made the promise that is the reason for hope. When we place our faith in Him, we can have real hope because He makes no mistakes, rights all wrongs and forgives all errors.
When all is going well it is easy to look at our lot and say "God is in control." But when life is falling apart, we feel like no one, not even God, cares about our situation and we don't even want to face tomorrow..therein lies the true test and the real definition of faith. Believing in Him and His promises because He is trustworthy and righteous and not because He is being a sugar daddy and giving us what we want, that is what real faith is all about.
When we lose hope, it is because we are focusing on the wrong thing. We are looking at where we are and our circumstances instead of who He is.
When we want what He wants, we want what is right. So then we have hope because we can know that He will bring to pass what He wants and that will be right.
But does He promise to save our marriage? Not really...But does he say He wants to save our marriage? God has said, "I hate divorce." Sounds pretty clear to me. But to each of us, BS and WS as well, He gives free will to choose to follow Him or not. And it isn't a choice of two equal options since one way leads to life and one to death. It isn't opinion as to which is better, but simply a matter of one being right and one choice being wrong. His way is always right...our own is always wrong.
"Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save. When their spirit departs they return to the ground: on that very day their plans come to nothing. Blessed is he whose help comes from the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the Lord his God, the Maker of heaven and earth" (Psalm 146:3-6)
"Those that trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever. As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds His people both now and forevermore." (Psalm 125:1-2)
So faith is not about believing that what we want to happen will come to pass, but it is choosing to believe that what God wants for us is true and right and that He is in charge. Since He knows the end from the beginning, He knows what is best for each of us and when we trust Him to bring that to pass, we can have hope, not that we can have our own way, but that He will have His own way which is the best since He wants and promises only what is best to those who trust in Him.
This place has literally been a life line for me, and I hate the thought of not being able to post here. But, yes, I have considered, and still consider it.
SMB - I understand what you are describing as your "feeling" about this. So let me simply say that you can continue to post regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. There are only two valid reasons for anyone to be on MB anyway. 1)They are seeking information and help that might be relevant to themselves and their marriage, and 2)They are trying to HELP someone else with their struggles and their seeking some help. *****************edit******************
So I do understand your frustration. You can, as others have suggested, put the person on "ignore" or you can simply choose to ignore anything they might say and choose to not let them have the power to "disturb" you.
So faith is not about believing that what we want to happen will come to pass, but it is choosing to believe that what God wants for us is true and right and that He is in charge. Since He knows the end from the beginning, He knows what is best for each of us and when we trust Him to bring that to pass, we can have hope, not that we can have our own way, but that He will have His own way which is the best since He wants and promises only what is best to those who trust in Him.
Wow You are right.
Basicaly, everytime I worry about what is going to happen or fret over that my H may not come home etc. I am getting in G-d way of doing his work and need to just out of it? And by me being solely focused that truly the one end result of happiness for me is my H coming home is actually denying G-d or playing G-d as to what is best for me?
What are you suggesting? Where do Plan A and Plan B fall into this?
Basicaly, everytime I worry about what is going to happen or fret over that my H may not come home etc. I am getting in G-d way of doing his work and need to just out of it? And by me being solely focused that truly the one end result of happiness for me is my H coming home is actually denying G-d or playing G-d as to what is best for me?
What are you suggesting? Where do Plan A and Plan B fall into this?
skinsgal - I hope you don't my trying to "take a stab" at your questions.
"Basicaly, everytime I worry about what is going to happen or fret over that my H may not come home etc. I am getting in G-d way of doing his work and need to just out of it?"
Not exactly "getting in God's way. It is impeding God's progress for you in the sense that God has instructed us to NOT "worry" (as in the picture of a dog "worrying" a bone) about the future. God HAS given us today, and today only to "worry" about so that we can choose our reactions and actions for the troubles that are "sufficient unto the day."
"And by me being solely focused that truly the one end result of happiness for me is my H coming home is actually denying G-d or playing G-d as to what is best for me?"
Not at all. TODAY is what God has given any of us to "deal with." Now IF his "coming home" IS the only source of happiness, then I'd say you are right. That's because our "source" of happiness should be God alone and not in anyone else as if some other person, not matter how much we love them, is our "god." It is, I guess the best way to describe it, a matter of priorities and falls under the "heading" of "Thou shall have no other gods before me."
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What are you suggesting? Where do Plan A and Plan B fall into this?
Plan A is focused on YOUR walk. In the context of God, it is your own walk with Him in humble obedience to His commands, regardless of how our emotions might be making us feel.
Plan B is intended to make the WS think about everything and how it relates to the choices that they are making.
In that respect it is similar to God removing His protection from the nation of Israel when they were being "stiff-necked" and following after things that were not "Godly."
Now IF his "coming home" IS the only source of happiness, then I'd say you are right.
I don't think that my H is my only source of happiness.
And if there is ONE THING I have gotten through this it is my continue to strengthen relationship with G-d. Quite honestly, I am seeking to live my life for G-d and in his will for me and no one else.
I completely messed my life up on my own will, and I am not willing to go back there to that awful dark place. Not even if it meant for my H to come home.
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it is your own walk with Him in humble obedience to His commands, regardless of how our emotions might be making us feel.
Can you please elaborate on what you mean by how our emotions might be making us feel. I kinda get it, but not truly.
I think there are a couple of scriptural ideas at work in Plan A and Plan B.
From New Testament concepts we can see that before we can even begin to make a judgment of someone else's actions, we must first examine our own actions and intentions as well. Thus, in Plan A we are removing ourselves as an obstacle to God doing His work in the WS by removing any excuse for them to reject what He is telling them to do.
When I look at myself and compare me to someone else, I might stack up pretty good. In the case of a BS comparing themselves to a WS, the BS looks all righteous and pure. But when my comparison is to the One and Perfect God of the universe...my paltry attempts at goodness turn to so much garbage.
So in Plan A we are given the opportunity to become what God intended us to be all along.
As for Plan B...In the NT Paul tells us to abandon an unrepentant sinner to his/her own ways that God might bring them to the end of themselves. If you look at the promises made by God to the people of Israel when they entered the land after wandering in the wilderness for 40 years, you can see that He promises to defend and protect them, bless their every act and make them the envy of all the nations. But the price to be paid was to obey Him and His commands.
When the people stopped following Him, God removed His blessing from them and His protection fell away. The northern kingdom was overrun and the people dispersed. The southern kingdom remained for a short time but they too refused God's chastisement and eventually God raised up the Babylonians to overthrow Judah and haul the people off to captivity. But even in captivity, God was working behind the scenes for the return to Jerusalem.
Time and again, God has removed His hand of guidance and arms of protection and allowed the people to come to a point of having nothing of themselves to rely on so that He could lift them up when they called out to Him
In Plan B, we stop meeting the ENs of the WS and abandon them to their own ways. At the same time, we begin to build our own life so that we can move forward when a time has passed.
We cry out to God for comfort in all of this, and we want the word to mean "make the pain stop..." But the word comfort actually comes from two words that mean "with" or "from a position of" and "strength" or "power". (You piano players think about what the word "forte" means on a piece of music.) This is also the source of our word fortress. So when we seek His comfort, what He is willing to give us is His strength to get us through. The consequences of living in a fallen world do not go away, but with His power, we can overcome the world.
Think about Joseph. His brothers were jealous of him because he was his father's favorite. They sold him into slavery and faked his death so their father would forget him. Though a slave, God caused all he did to prosper and soon he ran his master's entire household. But he was imprisoned for attempted rape, though falsely accused and while in prison met a man who one day mentioned him to the king. And when asked to interpret a dream by the king, not only knew it's interpretation but the dream itself and ended up second in all the land to only the king himself.
And when he was in charge of all that Egypt had, his brothers came to him for help, though they did not know he was their brother. And because of his place of power and authority, he was able to save his entire family and Israel was saved.
Now if Joseph hadn't always rubbed it in his brother's faces that he was Dad's favorite, and if he had kept to himself his dreams of grandeur, perhaps he'd have avoided being sold as a slave, but then he would not have been a slave in Egypt where he was falsely accused of rape and thrown into prison where he met a man who mentioned him to the king who put him in charge of all the land so that he could save Israel and his sons...
What was intended for evil, God intended for good. Joseph suffered, Jacob suffered and all of Joseph's brothers suffered because of the choices they each made, but God used it all to prepare for the salvation of his yet unborn nation. Though none could see it, God had a plan.
Now think about this...If Joseph had not been sold as a slave by his brothers, there would be no Israel in Egypt to become slaves to later kings and Moses would not have led them out of slavery and the Law would not have been given and ...
It was ALL part of God's plan from the very beginning...
Can you please elaborate on what you mean by how our emotions might be making us feel. I kinda get it, but not truly.
I can try, skinsgal. If I'm not clear enough or if it prompts other questions, please post them and I'll try to address or clarify further.
All of our emotions are given to us by God. That is how He created us. It is the basis of the most fundamental of all the emotions, LOVE. All of the emotions, created initially in us were "good."
But God also created the angels with the same capacity for emotions and gave both the angels and we humans another gift that we could "control." That gift was "Free Will." The reason God did this was simple, He wanted to create a race of beings, both angels and humans, who COULD choose to love Him, and not simply "obey" as a robot would with NO choice. Robots can't love because they can't choose. We can. That is also why we can choose to endure the pain of adultery and CHOOSE to "love anyway" and attempt to recover our marriages.
Along with Free Will comes the capacity to choose, and HOW we choose is influenced by our LOVE for God and by all the emotional reactions we feel.
What God "asks" from us is "obedience," not disobedience. And it is the APPLICATION of our choices that show our love for God or our love for "self."
That began with Lucifer choosing rebellion and disobedience, founded in Pride of Self. It extended to Mankind with Eve and with Adam when they chose to believe Satan's lies rather than God's command, simply because it "felt right" to them to "be like God."
Love for God is good. Love for money is bad. etc. etc.
The "two sides" to every emotion. Worship and praise and exhaltation God. Worship and praise and exhaltation of Man.
Good and evil. God has continually emplored Mankind to CHOOSE, except for the Flood when God essentially said, "you've made your choices, now I will make mine." WHO has the right and the power to determine that the choices are "right?" Only the one who IS the true Sovereign Lord.
While talking about New Testament Scripture might not be "comfortable," let me just state one other example that relates to this issue of "emotions" controlling behavior and "right and wrong" responses to those emotions.
We are admonished in the NT to "Be angry, but in your anger do not also sin." That is a reference to it being right to feeling "Righteous Anger" about SIN. It is also a warning to not give anger such 'free rein' as to give us an excuse to commit sinful actions in response to that "good anger" over sin that is first and foremost a sin against Holy God.
God IS angry about all sin. Sin HAS consequences. THAT is the message throughout the entire Word of God, both "Old" and "New" Testaments. Forgiveness of sin and restoration of a "right relationship" first with God, and then with our fellow man, IS the goal of God and He determines how it is to "be done." We can "like or dislike" His plan, but our feelings in the matter are "irrelevant" when God has spoken...because He IS God and we are all His servants.
So, all of this is G-ds plan and I just have to seek him for comfort, strength, guidance and let his plan play out and know that whatever happens I will be ok?
In other words, my Plan A is still about me becoming who G-d always intended, which has been my goal from the start in November. And Plan B, well it's just what it will be when I get there because I really only need to do what G-d needs to do today?
Am I close yet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
One thing I am doing is going out on a walk with a friend and taking care of this body that he gave me, that was dying before all this and is now healing itself is SO many ways.
I'll check back to see if I was on target of what you said.
So, all of this is G-ds plan and I just have to seek him for comfort, strength, guidance and let his plan play out and know that whatever happens I will be ok?
EXACTLY...but how can you stay focused on this? The later it gets in the night..the more you start to DOUBT and have FAITH...
So, all of this is G-ds plan and I just have to seek him for comfort, strength, guidance and let his plan play out and know that whatever happens I will be ok?
In other words, my Plan A is still about me becoming who G-d always intended, which has been my goal from the start in November. And Plan B, well it's just what it will be when I get there because I really only need to do what G-d needs to do today?
Am I close yet?
Yes, you are close, but there's a "danger" you need to be aware of.
It relates to "predestination." While God KNOWS all that will happen and allows things to happen, we are NOT to adopt an attitude of "well, it's God's plan therefore I don't have to do anything because God will do what He does regardless of what I do or don't do." In New Testament terms, that is referred to as "hyper Calvinism." That is NOT what God tells us. We are to be Obedient to God's commands and that is what James warns believers about when he says "faith without works is dead."
God IS Sovereign and God will work His will regardless. But we are NOT released from DOING what God has commanded us to do, because it is for our benefit, not God's. God doesn't "need" us, we need God.
Think of it this way. It is NOT "God's plan" that anyone commits adultery. God KNOWS what will be done and God CAN use all of the circumstances in our lives to WORK OUT good results despite the tragic circumstances we do or encounter.
It was NOT God's plan that Job suffer and lose everything. That was Satan's plan. But God used Job's circumstances and his faithfulness through it all to result in GOOD coming after the trial and tribulation.
Queenie...how you doing? Did you get some more sleep?
The story about your DD is troubling; does it look like they might be going down the same path as you and you H? I hope you can get through to them and that your own experience can help them.
Check in please; just want to make sure your doing alright.
Queenie is not a Christian and does not follow the New Testament. I wasn't sure if you knew this or not.
Yes Mimi, I am aware. Her use of G-d tells me that she is probably Jewish, but the question she asked transcends both and is included in both. Either way, she obviously believes in God and is seeking to understand God-given emotions and how they impact our actions and reactions.
She, likewise, is probably aware that I am a Christian, but there is nothing that stops us from trying to help one another regardless of our beliefs. That's all I'm trying to do, as I hope she is aware.
I am doing ok. I was out most of the afternoon getting fresh air instead of sitting at home feeling sorry for myself. I was out doing something I had never done before.
Mimi, FH, and Mark
I appreciate you asking FH about knowing if I was Jewish. That was thoughtful of you and so kind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Rememeber the conversation that I had with my former rabbi. He didn't care how I got through this time as long as I did.
It's funny, I used to be very uncomfortable to talk about the NT teachings. Probably a threat. And as most of you know I even contemplated my walk in Judaism. But the truth is I am Jewish through and through.
I actually think its a good thing for me to be exposed to Christian thoughts, not because I am seeking, but because I am WILLING to go to ANY LENGTHS to become the woman that G-d wants me to be. That is really what this is ultimately about.
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Quote: ------------------------------------------------------------ So, all of this is G-ds plan and I just have to seek him for comfort, strength, guidance and let his plan play out and know that whatever happens I will be ok?
EXACTLY...but how can you stay focused on this? The later it gets in the night..the more you start to DOUBT and have FAITH...
I don't know. Got any ideas? I spent all of last night reading your thread about FBW and wrote down a lot of what you said in my diary. Some how I have to develop a wall of protection that is inpenetrable. That is becoming more and more. Because I really do have FAITH that I can make it through this and my M be restored. I just get caught up in the little stuff that confuses me. Like Satan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
FH,
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We are to be Obedient to God's commands and that is what James warns believers about when he says "faith without works is dead."
Is this where both Plan come into being? I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to tell me.
TMTS,
I am actually doing OK, today. I fell asleep finally around 3:30ish, but woke up about an hour later. Then my daughter me and told me she was ok, but she didn't sound like it. I finally woke up around 9 and ended up talking to a friend and we met and went for a long walk. Actually it was very cool, we watched a flying airplane show and then went walking to the geysers. I had never been there.
Before I got there I got a call from our contractor. My house is done and he needed me to call my H and get him to come and sign papers. He asked me if I wanted to call him or leave it to him to call WH. I said, no I would love to call him. So, I first called and left a message that I was thinking of him and wishing him a wonderful day. Then about a 1/2 later I called him back and told him that we needed to hook up and go sign papers for the house to be put up for sale. Guess what, he hasn't called me back, but I checked and he has heard the message. I wonder what the deal is, I would think he would want to get this over as soon as possible.
Anyways, I realized that 14 years ago today, we sold our house in CA to move up here to WA. And here I am signing away to sell my house. I realized that was the best thing that really happened to us and who knows maybe this is just as it should be. We should be able to get out of debt and start over with a nice chunk of change together.
I am VERY worried about my DD. Yes she is in an extremely unhealthy relationship and while I like her BF as a person for the most part, I think their relationship is destructive and not good. I find it appalling that my DD would hit another human being. Never once in our M was any of that ever a part of us. So, she definetly has an anger issue. It's passive-agressive for sure and is causing her much trouble. She is also truly suffering from what is going on with her dad. She misses him so much and he just isn't there to offer any kind of warmth and advice. I EVEN know that. He responses to her are just now what the true H would give. So, I continue to pray to G-d for guidance on what to do or NOT to do and ask him to help her himself through this which is about the best I can do. I keep having this nagging feeling that what I experienced with her last night was a taste of what my H will be like when he finally brakes. And I have to be rock solid strong in my comittment to seek G-d in all things instead of fixing this for him. That would be the OLD ME and she NO LONGER exists.
Just to recap, I think I understand what you are saying Mark and FH. So, I am going to try and recap for my brain to wrap around it.
I am fighting for my M because I love my H, but because G-d blessed our marriage not once, but twice. As long as I seek G-d for guidance on how to accomplish this, then I am walking in his will. No matter what happens, somehow G-d will take this and turn it into good as long as I walk in his will the whole way through. The most important job I have in all this is to become a woman of G-d and serve him to the best of my ability daily.
But this isn't just by faith, it's by my actions. And those actions can be and for me with the help of Mimi and others is Plan A and then Plan B. G-d has the plan for me, but I have to suit up and show up for it to be put into practice. Have I got it?
I just did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Remember what Mimi says, this is a war of many battles.
I'm very happy for you, just please know if she goes back into full on WW it isn't about you. They are addicted. That fix drives them no matter what and at all costs.
Keep moving towards your goal of becoming who G-d intends for you to become.
Have fun doing Plan A, because I found when it's working, it's very fun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Have fun doing Plan A, because I found when it's working, it's very fun.
thanks for that, because I was starting to think I was the only one getting pleasure out of running a good game plan. It feels like I kept her to one yard total (forget about just running yards), the D was rock solid.
I want you to KNOW, I MEANT it with EVERY PART of MY BEING.
I'm thankful that G-d put you in my life.
I'm thankful that I have my children and last night I got to see that I was NEEDED in their lives and will ALWAYS be needed. If for no other reason that to remind them of G-d and to seek G-d for all answers.
I'm thankful that one day, I will be healed and living a life that is more G-d centered than I can imagine today.
Can we get back to the Plan A recap and see where my deficits are? And address them before Plan B? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Ok, I was thinking that I need to somehow feed my H more information about the kids since he is missing out on their lives. Not to mention this would be creating an avenue of feeding him information that will be GONE once I am in Plan B.
So I was thinking of sending the email saying this. What do you think?
WH
I realized how hard this must be for you not really knowing what is going on in your children's daily lives. I want to honor that pain and include you in things as much as possible my email if you will allow me to.
And then I would go into writing what is happening. Things that are funny, etc. To create hopefully an environment of him missing out.
The only thing I can think of is if the children feel the same way. Two of the three are not children anymore and may have a different take on things. Even your youngest may not want to be involved. I know that when my F left I didn't want to have anything to do with him. I had basically implemented my own Plan B.
They are old enough to have their own opinions taken into consideration, because if they are not, it can lead to some resentment towards you.
Very good points. I would say that you are correct, the kids SAY they don't want to have anything to do with him. But, deep down, if he were to come home and be REALLY sorry for what he has done and made amends they would open their hearts to him.
The WH has not emailed YS in almost a month and the reason is b/c YS didn't email him back one time. When WH told me, it was all I could do to not SLAP him and say WAKE UP you A$$, you are the adult here. You abandoned them.
But I just smiled and let him vent without saying one word. Oh my gosh have I changed. LOL.
I think you're worrying about the wrong person. WH made his choices thinking that they would be OK. But only they know if they are OK or not. I was not OK for 25 years! I repressed all my feelings of pain and anger for way too long. Is MS still at home? How is he doing? I ask because he would be the one put into the position of being the 'man of the house' and is most susceptible to repress feelings because he will want to step up to help you.
Now keep in mind that everybody is different and my experience will not be the same as someone else’s, but it's something to keep in mind.
As for your DD, she seems to have her own life now and having to deal with her own troubles. Her F is probably the last person she is worried about.
They are worried about you and how you’re doing; they could care less about what he does or what happens to him. Even if he does come back, it will never be the same; they will always hold some resentment for what he did. Be ready for that.
I am not sure I understand. What do you mean worrying about the wrong person?
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WH made his choices thinking that they would be OK.
I think this is our first disagreement, he didn't make a choice on whether they would be ok or not. In fact his exact words to me were he was tired of putting other people first and wanted to put himself first.
I asked him what he was teaching his kids. He said, I am teaching them to stand up for their truth. I didn't know then what I know now. Boy I would love to have that conversation back.
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Is MS still at home? How is he doing?
He is still at home. He graduates in June. Of all my children he is the most like me in terms of sensitivity. He was the one who confronted his dad and he carries around the anger of how WH laid into him one night about being honest and truthful and the 10 commandments and when push came to shove, WH just walked b/c he loved her.
In the beginning when I was an absolute mess, not eating or drinking, etc. He really stepped up and became a man. I relied on him for while, however, one time he over stepped his bounds and he and I went at it. I told him, that like it or not, I was still the parent and the HEAD of the house. I think it helped him to relax and know that he could still play for a little longer.
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As for your DD, she seems to have her own life now and having to deal with her own troubles. Her F is probably the last person she is worried about.
They work at the same place and she seems him and talks to him every so often. She was VERY CLOSE to him and is grieving the loss of him in her own way and it's really causing trouble in her life. She may not be worried about him like me, but she knows HE IS NOT HER DADDY anymore and she needs HER DADDY. Ironically, growing up, she and I weren't as close as we are now. She was always DADDY'S girl.
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They are worried about you and how you’re doing; they could care less about what he does or what happens to him.
They are worried about me. And the boys say they could care less. But you see, my H was the one who was the everyday dad. He played with them, cooked most meals for them. I was off doing this or that. This has left a huge voice in their lives. H used to take them out and play lacrosse with them, he used to take them to play soccer with him, he would take them down to his workplace and spend the day with them, they would go 4 wheeling, he would teach them how to work on cars, etc. I didn't do any of those things. I just loved on them and in the end haven't abandoned them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You and I have NO CLUE what the future holds. By me completely forgiving H is setting an example that I believe in time will completely heal their relationship.
What was you YS's reaction to his father not coming to his game on Saturday? Did he mention anything to you?
I was thinking that you may want to keep an eye on him for 'man of the house' syndrome as well. Look at it this way... MS is at the age that he is looking forward to his own life, which leaves your YS to be your main protector. And as much as we try to protect them and tell them that this is not their problem, it still leaves a mark on their soul. The natural defense for this is to protect the hurt parent from any more pain. If you noticed that he has matured very quickly since d-day, you may want to keep your eye open for this.
What was you YS's reaction to his father not coming to his game on Saturday? Did he mention anything to you?
I am pretty sure he didn't make a comment. I honestly don't remember if we talked about it. He calls him names or says who cares about him, he is nothing to him.
If the WH wouldn't have waited so long after d-day to contact the boys I don't think their relationship would be this strained. But WH continues to be the victim in all this and gets mad at the boys because he feels that he has tried to repair the damage. He just simple DOESN'T GET IT. He is losing his children more and more and HE IS LOST. He thinks it's the kids responsibility to mend this relationship.
YS is by far the most tightly wound up one. He is a time bomb waiting to explode and everyone sees it, especially at school. I can't force them to go to counseling, but I have the school helping me out with avenues for him to vent.
Unfortunately and trying to not be disrespectful to my H, they boys are just like him. They shut down completely any emotions and act like nothing is wrong. H did it for years and it would frustrate me to no end. Finally I learned how to deal with it in unhealthy ways and I don't need to go there anymore. I just handled it wrong.
I wonder, can someone who was so into mind games with me, be absolutely healthy in this relationship with the OW? He tells me how their intimacy is like something we never experienced before.
I am not sure I understand. What do you mean worrying about the wrong person?
You're intention to give your H an update seems to have more to do with him than with your children. He needs to take responsibility for his relationship with his Children.
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I think this is our first disagreement, he didn't make a choice on whether they would be ok or not. In fact his exact words to me were he was tired of putting other people first and wanted to put himself first.
Disagreements are good, they lead to more understanding. I'm going on my experience from the side of the child and BS spouse on this one. In my case my WW told me straight out that the DDs would adjust and be ok. Talking to my F he tells me that he had made the same rationalization. He could have very well rationalized it in a completely different way. At one point I would think that he asked himself the question about how the kids would adjust, and he had to answer it. The question is did he let you in on what he was thinking.
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You and I have NO CLUE what the future holds. By me completely forgiving H is setting an example that I believe in time will completely heal their relationship.
You are correct in stating that we have no clue as to what the future holds, but has we cannot control our WS's feelings or actions, we also cannot control our children's either.
Please keep in mind that I am only sharing a possible outcome based on my personal experience. I wish and pray that you are right and that their relationship with their F can be healed. Please keep this particular possibility in mind, because it affected me and my brother, and still does to this day.
You're intention to give your H an update seems to have more to do with him than with your children. He needs to take responsibility for his relationship with his Children.
No, actually my intention is to meet another EN of family commitment by feeding him information about the kids. Once I go dark, I won't be feeding him this information and I want him to MISS this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Is that right Mimi?
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At one point I would think that he asked himself the question about how the kids would adjust, and he had to answer it. The question is did he let you in on what he was thinking.
I think we both know the answer to that one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Ok, you win. He rationalized to himself the kids would be ok. What he neglected to take into account was how much his kids loved him and how much a part of their lives he was. At least before the A.
I think that honestly, I am not able to comprehend that what the WH has chosen to do has hurt my children forever. If I do, then I go to a place where I want to find the courage to tell him to shove it and walk away from him for cruelly hurting my children. I grew up in an unbelievable mind field of games and dysfunction. The only true thing I wanted to do in life was give my children two parents the whole way through. Again, I won't go there because he is sick and out of control. If he was in his right mind, he would NEVER have done this.
If the WH wouldn't have waited so long after d-day to contact the boys I don't think their relationship would be this strained. But WH continues to be the victim in all this and gets mad at the boys because he feels that he has tried to repair the damage. He just simple DOESN'T GET IT. He is losing his children more and more and HE IS LOST. He thinks it's the kid’s responsibility to mend this relationship.
This was the key that got my F out of the fog. He never claimed to be a victim, but when he realized that we could and were willing to go one without him, it really pulled at him. He had painted a picture where he would move close by so that we could go and visit him whenever we wanted. (It was literally a 5 min walk). What he didn't count on is that we didn't want to go see him. We were angry and hurt. We were more concerned about looking out and helping out my M than him.
Your YS sounds like he is having the same kind of reaction my B had and your MS is acting like I did. But it sounds like they are keeping it in, which is not good. IC may help, bit I know that I would not have been helped until I was in my early to mid 20s.
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I wonder can someone who was so into mind games with me, be absolutely healthy in this relationship with the OW? He tells me how their intimacy is like something we never experienced before.
Remember that it's you WH making it sound all nice. Is it the truth or another justification to continue on the path he's on?
I really think that my constantly blaming myself for this is another attempt at trying to fix him.
The truth is, my H had a horrible childhood growing up and carries with him scars that he blames on me. Those aren't my fault and never were. He is empty inside and completely believes this OW is going to make him happy.
But as we all know, it was NEVER my job to make him happy nor could I. And the same is true of her. It's not her job and she ultimately won't be able to because he has NO CLUE of what happiness is. That is something that comes from G-d. And until he truly comprehends that, well who knows.
WH is way too lost in the victim role to even care that his children are hurting. He isn't capable of going to that place of understanding anyone else's pain. He won't go there. He just gets that addicted glazed look in his eyes.
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Remember that it's you WH making it sound all nice. Is it the truth or another justification to continue on the path he's on?
The one doubt that creeps in constantly that I have to somehow protect myself from. Is that when I first found out she was a crack addict with hep c, he told me that he believed with a HUGE amount they could have an amazing relationship. Is that just him lying to himself or could they really have this amazing relationship?
He knew that it wouldn't take much work on our part to really make our marriage healthy and he could see all the changes I made. But in the end the addiction was too strong. I guess the other piece and I know Mimi will hit me for this, but I want to put it out there.
What if this person is a really good person and is truly making him happy and loves him, how can I possibly fight that?
Then again, and this is where I absolutely KNOW. She NEVER had my H, she only has the WH and that one UCKY person that I DON'T WANT.
No, actually my intention is to meet another EN of family commitment by feeding him information about the kids. Once I go dark, I won't be feeding him this information and I want him to MISS this.
That sounds well reasoned. Looking at it from that aspect, you could be on to something... ok, I give on this one, you win.
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I think that honestly, I am not able to comprehend that what the WH has chosen to do has hurt my children forever.
I lived it and don't comprehend it. The only thing I can think of is that as a child you have this expectation that your parents will love you unconditionally and part of that is staying together. When one of them betray that unconditional trust, it leaves a mark that can never be forgotten, and in some cases (Like my own), not forgiven for a long time. Your DD and MS may have been at an age that they will be able to understand that this is a sickness. Your YS on the other hand may not accept that reasoning. If he sees what happened as his F abandoning him, then it will be difficult to have him accept that he was sick, not impossible but difficult.
The unfortunate thing in all of this is that your H holds the key to this. He will at one point need to reach out to them himself and mend the wound.
What if this person is a really good person and is truly making him happy and loves him, how can I possibly fight that?
This is what I have nightmares about. Not about them in bed or holding each other, it's finding out that this guy isn't a jerk and does end up making her happier than I was able to.
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Then again, and this is where I absolutely KNOW. She NEVER had my H, she only has the WH and that one UCKY person that I DON'T WANT.
The unfortunate thing in all of this is that your H holds the key to this. He will at one point need to reach out to them himself and mend the wound.
The truly unfortunate thing is that WH thinks he HAS reached out to them.
Here in lies G-d's intervention only. It will truly take an act of G-d to mend this. I have and will continue to stay out of this mess. From the very beginning, and I have NO CLUE where this came from, but I have had the presence of mind to be very careful of staying out of this with my kids and their dad. Instinctively I knew that he was destroying his relationship with his kids and I didn't want to be a part of it, nor have to in anyway make up for anything that might have made it worse.
He tried to blame me once that I was doing "something". I put that right back on his lap and told him in no uncertain terms. NOT ONCE did I interfere in his relationship and I haven't and continue to not.
What he has done to the kids is SOLELY on his own. I created to the problems in this M, but the KIDS is HIS OWN MESS.
Then again, and this is where I absolutely KNOW. She NEVER had my H, she only has the WH and that one UCKY person that I DON'T WANT.
I like this thought. This is one to hold on to.
We keep imagining that it's our S that are doing this to us, and that's how we get stuck understanding. But as Mimi says, they are NO LONGER THOSE SPOUSES. They are creepy, selfish, monsters and would we really WANT THEM.
Now, the enabler in me says YES, anything to get him home. I'll fix him then. But that would be the WORST thing. Because I imagine I would somehow lose what I have gained which is G-d.
TMTS, G-d is who needs to reach them and shepherd them back into his fold. We can't fix them and it isn't our job. We can only become who G-d envisions for us, and trust that G-d will turn this into good one day when the timing is right. Mark, JT and James give me this scripture about waiting on the Lord.
We just need to wait for our blessings and as long as we stay in G-d will and be his servant we will receive one day. Though way easier said than done.
The truly unfortunate thing is that WH thinks he HAS reached out to them.
WH has no chance of reaching them. It's only one H returns that he will have a chance, because until that time he will continue to think of himself as the victim.
Queenie, the day is almost over and you seem in good sprits. Good for you, I know how much you agonized about today. Let’s hope and pray that next years we'll be talking about recovery.
See, you are the Warrior Queen! Find a mirror and give yourself a bow, you deserve it!
We plan to take down the Chrismas tree and watch another movie together. We will probably be able to go sledding as well, but today's snow fall is really wet so it might snowmen instead.
Without you and others, this day would have been way more unbearable. I won't say I wouldn't have gotten through it because I promised Mimi, but there was an unusual peace inside of me today. A true gift from G-d. I will NEVER forget the way you stuck with me, ever. I really hope you know how much I appreciate it and will do the same for you whenever you NEED me too.
I'm not going to find a mirror and give me a bow, I'm going to get on my knees and thank G-d for his gift and the gift of all of you.
I did a little plan A, not much, but something. One of my strongest attributes is my voice and I hope...oops no expectations. Ok, forget what I am thinking. I just wanted to leave him a message. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My bedroom, rather the bedroom is pretty well finished. I took way longer than I hoped, but it's almost complete. Just another vacumming around the place and I will somehow get WH over here.
Signing the papers to put my house up for sale was actually ok. I cried with my neighbor and sat and talked to her. I made the comment that everyone thought I was the strong one, but here I am the devastated one.
Then I realized that I am the strong one, because through this entire ordeal. I am the one who sought G-d for help and created a relationship with him, I am the one who has lost the weight, I am the one going to counseling and addressing everyone addictive concern imaginable, I am the one that made the deal for our house, I am the one who practically packed up a 3000 sq ft house by myself, I am the one who found the funds to pay off HIS and DD legal problems, I am the one who is raising the kids absolutely by myself and I am the one who has completely forgiven him and continue to hold the space of our marriage for him. But mostly becuase G-d needs me to.
He wasn't the strong one, when the tough things really happened he bagged and is still bagging. I am the one left to deal with it all, and you know what, I am, someday way better than others, but I still am doing it.
As for tomorrow, in 6 hours I need to get up and get my touckis to work. The little darlings don't come back until Thursday, but the teachers will be there for inservice training all day.
Then I realized that I am the strong one, because through this entire ordeal. I am the one who sought G-d for help and created a relationship with him, I am the one who has lost the weight, I am the one going to counseling and addressing everyone addictive concern imaginable, I am the one that made the deal for our house, I am the one who practically packed up a 3000 sq ft house by myself, I am the one who found the funds to pay off HIS and DD legal problems, I am the one who is raising the kids absolutely by myself and I am the one who has completely forgiven him and continue to hold the space of our marriage for him. But mostly because G-d needs me to.
G-d works through you does he not? Therefore without your faith in him none of this happens. So with this being said, please take at least a little credit for yourself. Look at your own words, and then try to convince me that you’re not special and don’t deserve a bow. (Don’t bother trying, because there is nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise)
I know you have difficulty accepting that I look at you as an inspiration, and I am confident that I am not the only one.
You should probably get to sleep though. I am able to be online all day long at work. And so I can keep in touch. It helps me to feel connected to people on here right now.
I want to make sure you are doing ok. And be there if you need anything.
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I know you have difficulty accepting that I look at you as an inspiration
That is an understatment. You and so many others are who held me up yesterday and today, I can't imagine being an inspiration to anyone. Will just leave this alone for tonight and let G-d work more in me and see where it ends up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Have you read Zorro's thread. It looks like there are a number of us who are needing to work on our self-esteems and that is something I am going to do, because surely as we are sitting here right now, one day someone is going to need our wisdom and direction on how to get through this horrific time. What I do know, is that one day I will be a completely whole person because G-d wants it that way and I will serve G-d by helping others get through their rough times. And one day, I might even be able to look myself in the mirror and know that I WAS ALWAYS the BEST CHOICE for my H. Whether he comes to realize it or not.
And if he chooses NOT to COME HOME. Then he lost out on something absolutely amazing that we could have created together because it would be blessed and shepherded over by G-d.
Queenie, I'am doing quite well. Yesterday was about being there for you. I'm sure my day will come, but right now I am at peace with myself, my situation and the fact that I am starting to reach out to G-d.
Have a good night and may all your dreams be pleasant.
Ok, I was thinking that I need to somehow feed my H more information about the kids since he is missing out on their lives. Not to mention this would be creating an avenue of feeding him information that will be GONE once I am in Plan B.
I don't think this is a good idea. FOCUS on YOUR RELATIONSHIP with HIM. HIS RELATIONSHIP with the children is HIS BUSINESS.
It is DISRESPECTFUL of him to do HIS WORK. He is A MAN who must do THIS WORK himself..if ever...
One of the most valuable, life-changing lessons that I learned was to step back and to stop trying TO FIX stuff that was none of my business.
PLAN A is about YOUR RELATIONSHIP with HIM.
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I realized how hard this must be for you not really knowing what is going on in your children's daily lives.
I know what you mean, Queenie..but this is a WHOPPING DJ. It may not be "hard for him"..probably isn't...that is AN ASSUMPTION that YOU are making based on YOUR OWN perception of YOUR life experience...let him come to the conclusion about what he is missing...and may have missed...
If anything, write to him about how YOU are missing him..as HIS WOMAN...his WIFE...
They are old enough to have their own opinions taken into consideration, because if they are not, it can lead to some resentment towards you.
And this is TRUE, too.
I tried to influence my YS on making amends with his Daddy and he resented my interference. Just a couple of years ago he told me to back off, that he "hated" his Daddy..blah dee blah..
Look at them now..
I backed off and both and them did the work ON THEIR OWN...
It's a MAN THING.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
They are worried about you and how you’re doing; they could care less about what he does or what happens to him.
EXACTLY..this is what was true for MY BOYS for a long time...it was their truth that I learned to ACCEPT...ACCEPTANCE is KEY...as in THE SERENITY PRAYER...
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Even if he does come back, it will never be the same; they will always hold some resentment for what he did. Be ready for that.
NO. It will never be the same BUT it CAN BE BETTER..not necessarily ALWAYS RESENTMENT.
With my modeling, I am thankful that my sons have learned TRUE FORGIVENESS. They speak of admiring me for that and are thankful that I have taught them what forgiveness means and what it looks like.
Your H CAN CHANGE. Ark on here taught me that...When Recovery began, I thought my H's relationship with the children was FOREVER wounded.
But, FATHERHOOD is a big issue with my husband. So I stepped back and HE worked actively on showing that he can be a GREAT DADDY despite those BAD YEARS.
I definitely can say without a shadow of a doubt that my H's relationship with them is BETTER THAN EVER..BUT and a BIG BUT..HE HAD TO DO THE WORK and I had to not get involved..it was between HIM and THEM...
What I am saying is that YOU ARE POWERLESS over his relationship with them...
YOUR WORK..YOUR relationship with HIM..and YOUR relationship with YOUR CHILDREN...
So, obviously my self-esteem and self-worth is high up on the list. Would you agree?
EXACTLY!!
I fit all the features of an Adult Child of an Alcoholic and brought my childhood junk of CONTROL into my marriage...YUCK..
First, STeve Harley and then BR and LA called me on that stuff..to stop my self-righteousness and my DJing of my H so that I was DISRESPECTING HIM and not providing him with ADMIRATION...yuck..I also was doing that with my YOUNG ADULT SONS...YUCK...not listening..not respecting...FIXING EVERYBODY AND EVERYTHING...
THE KEY IS ACCEPTANCE OF WHAT IS..and FOCUSING ON YOURSELF..and YOURSELF ONLY!!!
Isn't that THE FIRST STEP...recognizing your POWERLESSNESS...
I have met with him before. He knows I only want a legal separation.
He is the husband of a good friend and specializes in these cases.
He actually isn't charging me any money but for the filing fees.
I really don't want to do this. But I have to trust there ie NO other way. And the longer it goes on, the less likely I am going to be able to make sure it effects him in his wallet. I don't want to screw him, just get the absolute most amount I can.
Even if he does come back, it will never be the same; they will always hold some resentment for what he did. Be ready for that.
NO. It will never be the same BUT it CAN BE BETTER..not necessarily ALWAYS RESENTMENT.
With my modeling, I am thankful that my sons have learned TRUE FORGIVENESS. They speak of admiring me for that and are thankful that I have taught them what forgiveness means and what it looks like.
I agree that I either of use reached out (Of which we have now) I would have spared myself allot of pain.
Glad to hear you feeling good today.
Mimi - Thanks you becasue I also learn from the guidance you are givning Queenie.
Just got back from the lawyer. Paid my money and he will start to send me the paperwork.
He said we could delay things for a LONG time, over a year at least. He doesn't want me to talk to H about any money anymore. Interestingly, he isn't so quick for us to split our equity in the house 50-50. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will keep you posted. The fact that he almost makes 1/2 more than me is a good thing for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I called WH to do a little Plan Aing. He was kinda grouchy, not very talkative and I just ignored it and kept asking him questions. He was very hesitant to talk to me. Going through his email and sidetracked most of the time. I told him twice that I was thinking about him and wanted to check in and see how he was doing.
I didn't talk about the children once. He actually didn't even ask about them. I know it shouldn't surprise me, but it does.
I asked him if he watched the Redskins game he said no. I knew that. He can't even be happy for me. He did ask if I was going to the game, I said, no I couldn't afford it. I mentioned that I had the bridal faire to do, he always helped me set up for the faire.
He wanted to know if I signed the papers, which meant he got the message asking him to please call me. He mentioned the time frame being late. I said I don't worry about timing and those things, G-d will take care of it.
Oh did the WH bing off of her this weekend.
My appt is set for 4 am pst next Tuesday with Steve.
Are you ok? I can tell that you have been dreading the day you go to Plan B (Please correct me if I am reading this wrong). My heart aches for you because I can sense how much you miss him.
No, I don't want this, or any of it. And to some extent I can't believe that he continues to do what he is doing. BUT he is completely gone and believes he is happier with her. Who knows maybe he is.
I am just doing what I have to do. This is what reality is. And in the long run I am protecting me, my children and ultimately my M. I have to keep that in mind. The thought that I could get more money out of the house that 50-50 would allow me the opportunity to buy a house with the housing market going down and I could offer him a new home to come to. That is so exciting to me.
I'm scared. I'm truly scared he is so lost he will NEVER figure this out.
So, I am glad you are here and I can talk to you and others about it.
You're about to get his attention, big time. As soon as he finds out about the LS. But that's okay. Because when he brings it up, you don't have to discuss it. That's why you have an attorney. He'll be scratching his head thinking... but she LOVES me... she'll be there if I ever want to come back... but WAIT... she went to see an attorney on her own. Whoa Nellie. Who is this woman of strength, love and power?
What time frame did you mean until then? My appt or Plan B?
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ONWARD..
What should I do next? I am having a challenge figuring out what EN's I have not addressed and what I can address. What do you think?
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YEP..in FULL WAYWARDNESS after a long weekend with the OP..
It astually is pretty disgusting. I am sure I have asked, but are they really away of how insensitive they are being? Is he trying to hurt me and push me away or just doesn't even think about it?
Is he happy? Who knows he might be lying to himself too just to prove a point?
I'm kind of anxious today. I'm working the plan and WW is being nice, but I'm waiting for the hammer to drop. I just do not trust what this niceness is all about. My heart hopes and prays that it is my W trying to peek through, but my mind is suspicious. I am really nervous about the mediator and setting up of the LS. If she wants to get nasty, she could have me thrown out, keep the house and have me pay for it all. She has not mentioned anything of the sort though. I don't know if this has to do with what she thinks will be independence, or if she doesn’t want to burn all the bridges between us. I scared too Queenie, and am glad I've got friends here that understand.
On the positive side I'm going through some finances and figured out that I'll be able to put an extra $100 per month on the mortgage principal, and probably more if she leaves.
I am really nervous about the mediator and setting up of the LS. If she wants to get nasty, she could have me thrown out, keep the house and have me pay for it all.
How can that work?
Yes, we have friends on here and we are walking in G-ds will.
He is definetly lying to himself to prove a point. He is stubborn and will dig his heals in at all cost. Partly that's how we survived so long because we kept trying. I just have to wait on the Lord and continue to learn my lessons, move forward, become the Proverbs 31 woman and trust that in the end, no matter what, G-d will turn it to good. I miss my H so much and it just amazes me when I have to talk to the WH what a jerk he is.
Ok, is it possible that he the WH to me and the kind, gentle, giving H to her? Could she have the man that I love so much?
Remember I'm Canadian and the courts here only look at one thing and that's what is best for the child. In most cases (Even if there is adultery, the H looses in the deal). I hope that there is something that can stop it though. I would end up paying alimony through the nose, and even possibly be stuck with only visitation rights, which is what really scares me.
Now she is not going that way because she has no one that is on her side. Everybody is against this and if she tries to take my kids away she will loose what is left of the relationship she has with her best friend and her parents. My heart tells me that she is also trying to keep the door open so that if she does crash and burn the bridge wont be.
But that is almost expecting something... (Insert 2x4 here)
Let me put a little spin on your last statement. Maybe we want the WS to be the kind loving person towards the OP. That way when it ends they will know where we are coming from.
Do you really think this will have ANY effect on him or will it just piss him off?
I'm sure it will have SOME effect on him but it doesn't matter. You didn't do it for the effect. I was just speculating (bad PM!) what he MIGHT think. If it does piss him off? So what? You're standing ALONE fighting for your family (including him) and you do WHATEVER you have to do. Some day he will thank you.
Let me put a little spin on your last statement. Maybe we want the WS to be the kind loving person towards the OP. That way when it ends they will know where we are coming from.
I actually don't even want that. I just want my H to come home and work on our M. I just need a chance.
No, I didn't do it for the effect. I am only doing what I need to survive and create a new life for me, the kids and even him. I could come out of this being able to purchase a house and start again. What a nice gift to be able to give to him.
Let say he all nice with the OW and shows her you’re H. Then (hopefully sooner than later) she decides that she's done with him and moves on. I would think that if there is something that can lift the fog right away, this is it. Now all of a sudden they get to know what rejection is all about.
Now all of a sudden they get to know what rejection is all about.
I don't want him to understand what this kind of pain is. I just want him to know how much I love him and want a second chance at the M.
Besides he is HER MEAL TICKET. If he shows his lovable, caring, giving side she WOULD NEVER walk away. NEVER. She doesn't work, she just stays at home and caters to his every whim.
Let say he all nice with the OW and shows her you’re H. Then (hopefully sooner than later) she decides that she's done with him and moves on. I would think that if there is something that can lift the fog right away, this is it. Now all of a sudden they get to know what rejection is all about.
DH can't show OW DH because he's a WH. (Sheesh, that was confusing.) The only thing he's showing OW is WHATEVER IT TAKES to get his fix from her for whatever need she is meeting for WH right now. DH is no where in sight.
After my DH came home it was like he was enveloped by this haze or fog... no... this ice... from within to without. This ICEMAN was the person I had been dealing with and that OWs had been dealing with. As he slowly came around, I saw my DH appear. No... that's not quite it...
I know! I know! It's like that cold commercial on TV lately. The guys walking around all grayed out. Then he gets the right medicine and he slowly colorizes back to normal. So that gray thing is what's walking around out there... even with OP.
DH can't show OW DH because he's a WH. (Sheesh, that was confusing.) The only thing he's showing OW is WHATEVER IT TAKES to get his fix from her for whatever need she is meeting for WH right now. DH is no where in sight.
My H described it as CONSTANTLY PRETENDING..or his better and favorite term for it...BS..and not the intials...get's tiring... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Oh please, come on over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My nerves are so jittery. I just received all the paperwork and I am overwhelmed by this. I want to kidnap him and give him to Steve H. Any idea how I can do it.
I am eternally grateful to Mimi for what she is giving me. And so many others. This so HARD.
The WARRIOR QUEEN is on her way out the door at work, over to the gym to work of this shakiness and then fake and bake for some warmth. And then home. This is making me sick to my stomach. How do I know I am doing the right thing or what G-d wants me to? I have prayed for this and I am not getting any answers. Accept when I called up the lawyer today he had lots of openings. I feel like I am jumping the gun before I talk to Steve H., but then when I FOCUS on what's best for ME and MY CHILDREN and MY M. I have to do this, it's the only way to truly protect myself and ensure that WH has no control over me when I go into to Plan B.
I know I CAN do it, I just DON'T want to. I am doing the right thing, YES?
Will you be around later to talk? How are you doing?
I getting some guidance on how to deal with my WW expectations that we will be best friends after separation (Once I hit plan B that is).
How are you getting the guidance, from your thread?
I am shaking so bad and can't stop crying. I KNOW this is what I have to do to FOCUS on me. I KNOW. I'm just SAD.
I'm walking to my AA meeting tonight, which is about 2 miles give or take, and my sponsor will be there. She has been reminding me that I am moving forward, but sees this as me moving towards a D. She won't understand that I am doing this to save my M and I'm SCARED it's going to backfire.
I KNOW, I have to find the STRENGTH to go through with this. But there is so much paperwork and I am so unorganized. I don't have all the pieces of information they need and I don't have access to some of it either. Like his pay stubs. I just have the deposits being made.
She is doing what she thinks is BEST for ME. But she doesn't buy into that my H is in an active addiction. So I feel alone in my outside world from here. Know what I mean?
Ok, Mimi, SELF-CONFIDENCE. How can I begin to examine what is the right thing to do? If I am taking care of myself, the children and my M. Then I have to think of how to protect us.
Can we think of what I am trying to accomplish in Plan A besides becoming the best person I want to be. And keep me focused on my Plans. That way I can answer questions that are moving me toward my goal of restoring my M.
I know I don't. I just don't know what to do. I don't have to file the papers until after I talk to Steve. I think that's one thing. I can just begin to start gathering information and filling out the forms and praying...praying...praying.
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Seek out others for ADVICE but don't let anyone RULE you.
On here is the ONLY advice I really want because out in the real world they want me to dump my H.
So, let's keep me focused in Plan A and this is part of accomplishing Plan A by becoming a woman of G-d. Someone who is strong, confident and capable to handle even the worst situation with dignity and grace. With undying love for her H, and a stand for her M, but also a lioness who is protecting her family, herself and her H.
Yes, Mark the wonderings, believer, LaLa are helping me as best they can, unfortunately they are dealing with a bumbling idiot that can go 3 days without a meltdown of some sort. Where in the same boat tonight, I've been going on for the last 15 mins now and can't stop... it just hurts so much right now.
Well at least I am working the Plan then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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SG,
Quote: Can we think of what I am trying to accomplish in Plan A besides becoming the best person I want to be That IS Plan A...
Or at least the majority of it.
Mark
The weirdest thing happened on the way to walking to my meeting. I felt power inside of me. I felt life. I felt peace. And I got to the meeting and it started from the roots, the beginning.
What I realized, is I am TRULY, TRULY, becoming the best person I can be. I am becoming someone who is strong, who is able to face her worst fears and go through them, who is able to reach out to others and feel their pain and want to walk through and comfort them and yet allow them their walk, and I am moving farther and farther away from my addicted WH and I DON'T want to.
I'm moving forward from the insanity of the situation because I am strong inside. And I don't want to be. But I can't deny this growth and strength that is blossoming and giving me the courage to go to the lawyer today, to begin to look at my life without my H. And I don't want to.
Because I miss him and love him. I'm becoming what G-d wants inspite of myself and I find myself fighting against it. Crazy isn't it. Because I realized, my WH is just gone. I don't recognize him, I don't like him and I don't like what he is doing. I can't fix him, I want to, I would gladly do anything for him, but I can't FIX this for HIM. And I have to move forward.
I feel like I am becoming a butterfly who is getting ready to take off and I don't want to because it's leaving my H behind.
I can see how I am working an awesome Plan A, because I'm fighting it. I am becoming the best I can be and the truth is I am crossing over the bridge from death to life and it's just plain HARD.
I live in G-ds will now, there is good inside of me, not bad, there is no more anger and I am no longer the wife that I was. I am the wife that G-d knew I could always be. The wife who loves her H for all his faults and weaknesses. But I can't save him. I can only let him go. And I have to let him go. It's the only way to get him home and yet the risk is that won't ever happen.
I know G-d will turn this into good, because he already has. Look at me. I walked around town today. On my own two feet, up hills and down them, singing to myself because I love life. There is a genuine happiness and adventure for life and the WH simply doesn't have that inside of him.
PERSONAL POWER? I don't know. I do know I am changing inside and I need prayers to allow those changes to happen instead of fighting them.
HEAD IS UP, AND MY CHEST IT OUT. I'm going to survive this, inspite of myself because I am a SURVIVOR. It's my heritage, it's my blood line, but most important it's G-ds will.
{quote] YOU have to be the STRONG ONE if there is a RECOVERY. [/quote] I KNOW. I just get tired. So, I will figure out a way to rest myself in a healthy way and keep strong.
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REMEMBER your STRENGTH.
Yes I am and REALLY I ALWAYS WAS. Instead of laying down and dying, I have sought out G-d and let him work his good inside of me, the next leg of strength is accepting all the GOOD and STRENGTH I am instead of denying it. By denying it, I am denying G-d his glory.
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You've got TO FIGHT those NEGATIVE TAPES inside of you.
You are RIGHT!
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When you become CALM and QUIET, YOU have the POWER to get in touch with your INNER STRENGTH and to gain PEACE and SERENITY....
Yes I do, but I have to reach for G-d to help me with it.
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Watch the pattern..THE WARRIOR QUEEN always comes back because she is ALWAYS there...Queenie seems to forget about her at times...
and when she denies her the strength she is denying G-d his glory of what he is creating.
The walk gave me my walk with G-d. It gave G-d the time alone with me to work even harder inside. And he didn't rest, he took every step to build me up and watch me grow. I think he is smiling tonight.
I know that your friends here are smilling about your last post. This is the Queenie we know. How did the rest of your night go? I tried to go sleep an hour ago but no luck.
I did just what I said, got on my knees, prayed to G-d to turn it over, no worried, just let him have my life and use me where he needs to.
I got back into the routine of making breakfast for my YS. I have him almost talked in to going to the hotel where the Redskins are coming into town tonight and helping me get pictures and autographs. I have no challenge going by myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Anyways, when I logged into email, I saw that hubby had gotten my anniversary ecard that I sent. This is what I wrote.
My Husband,
As the world celebrates the New Year, this will ALWAYS be the day we vowed to G-d, not once but twice to love, honor and cherish each other all the days of our lives.
I have the hope and commitment for the new beginning that will create a marriage that only G-d can smile about.
G-d and I invite you to join me in that new creation of his. Your Wife
He didn't respond to the card. BUT, this is what was in my email this morning.
Hi (in the subject)
I was wondering if you had a chance to see if the Tahoma field would be available? F called yesterday and said Sundays would work. The first practice is for 1/12 or 1/13. If you get a chance let me know.
Thank you WH
Ok, what do you think? How did the card sound? I am not looking for any expectations. But I do think it's funny. He does NEED me for something. If I can pull this off. Oh yes.
I was wondering if you had a chance to see if the Tahoma field would be available. F called yesterday and said Sundays would work. The first practice is for 1/12 or 1/13. If you get a chance let me know.
Hi Queenie,
Sorry but could you give a little context to what he is referring to? Is this for YS lacrosse practice?
Actually it's the high school field that he needs for practices for HIS lacrosse team. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's all about HIM, remember.
Since I am PTA President at the high school and a district employee, I open up avenues for him that probably he wouldn't have access to or be able to get for a cheap price or free. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He may be trying to keep you in what he sees as "your place". In your OLD ROLE as PTA PRESIDENT, etc. whereas you are saying that you want to be HIS WOMAN...HIS WIFE...
I wouldn't be quick to get the field.
I would email him back and ask him where/when could you two meet to practice FRISBEE and respond to his request: "I'll see what I can do. I don't have as much power as you may think these days in the school system. My main focus is on becoming the best wife possible or something like that...
You are doing the exact same thing I would be trying to do... look for anything positive out of it. I completely understand why, but be careful that you are not setting yourself up for more disappointment. Let the Warrior Queen handle this one. He cannot answer you directly... why, it cold be shame, fear, not wanting to give you any kind of false hope. Who knows, like you say though right now it's all about him, and you are still dealing with WH, and he's asking for something that has nothing to do with your M. I have to believe though that somewhere in there, it touched your H heart. Hang in there.
I’m sure you’ll get a more seasoned interpretation from Mimi.
(Well I took too long to come up with something and Mimi is right there in all her greatness.)
Oh I totally KNOW it's all about him and he is using me. He is still so far gone. So no need to be sorry that it is anything more than him.
He and I were talking about it on the internet on Saturday saying they needed a field to play on. I offered to look into field availability.
He doesn't know that I am PTA President because we never discussed it. He only knows me as a district employee. So I would need to respond to him back in a different way than how you said. What do you think?
My reasoning in helping him was having access to the information of when his practices were so I could go and meet his EN of recreational companionship. Does that make sense? Am I off on this thinking?
Also, here's a good learning curve for me. My natural tendency it to help him out, so next time that something like this comes up, what could I have done differently as his wife or woman?
Along the same lines of learning, how was the ecard I sent him?
I am excited for you to see your beloved Skins (and I don't get excited about football-only for you).<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You are progressing so well. Don't be discouraged by the roller-coaster of emotions. It's normal and yes, it hurts. It doesn't mean you are failing or that God isn't walking with you. Something important that you may have overlooked is that you are allowing yourself to feel these painful emotions. That's the only way to get past them.
You've really come such a long way.
Just wanted to let you know that I'm still around and I'm rooting for you. (Now where did I put that cheer leading uniform?)
It's getting close. I really think they can pull this off. The Skins are coming into town tomorrow and I am going down there to welcome them.
Thank you for your encouraging words. There seems to be a little shift in me. I'm not as anxious or constantly thinking about it. In fact, I really haven't thought much about WH at all today. I have been focusing on work, and that is something I have needed to do for a LONG time.
I'm ok. Went to my IC today and asked her what steps to building a self esteem might look like.
If you mean SMB, I don't want to be a part of that uckiness that is going on her thread. I wanted to not lose touch with her, but before I ever really emailed any questions for her or her H, I would check with you.
I am doing ok. Kinda quiet inside. I had an intense IC session, worked really focused today and it was the first day back for the students.
I found out this morning that they don't come into town until tomorrow night. I am heading down there tomorrow.
I am struggling a little because this weekend is the wedding faire that my H and I always decorated the booth together. It was something that over the years we had gone from fighting to just having fun. The fact of being around all those happy people with dreams not excite me, but I can't do the booth without my H, I'm not tall enough.
So, just down, giving it to G-d and trying to keep myself calm as much as possible. How are you doing?
Would your son go help you out? Do you think H would help if asked? I can imagine that it will be hard, I just was the binder of our wedding album tonight and made sure I looked away real fast.
I'm doing alright. Mark pointed out to me that my hopelessness is pretty obvious. I just have a hard time accepting that she can or will snap out of this. She is living her life now like we were buddies. I'm waiting for the opportunity to bring up our future relationship once apart, to make sure she understands that my best friend is going to also be my lover and my wife. If that's her great if not it will be her loss.
Mark and Mrs. W are starting to get through to my subconscious now and that's a good thing. Mark is also helping me reconnect spiritually. There will be a Christian base to it, but I also am reading books by the Dalai Lama.
Today was a good day, but I dread tomorrow because that is when I suspect the mediator will be calling me. I understand that he had taken some vacation time.
Nice suggestion, I asked my son last night if he would help me. He laughed at me and I just asked the younger one, he just smiled, but then he isn't old enough.
I have had enough rejection right now from WH. This event was a huge deal to be to do together and was a statement of the progress we had made together. But that was a lie and I choose not to subject myself to it. Not when I have to be at my best the next morning and for a whole day.
I'm glad Mark and Mrs. W are offering their words of wisdom and helping you. It's so important for us right now. We are so vulnerable and react in ways that aren't in our best interest.
How do you know they are starting to get through to your subconscious. How is Mark helping you reconnect spiritually?
[quote] I just have a hard time accepting that she can or will snap out of this. []/quote] What do you mean by this?
I'm glad you are starting to see that if she is goofy enough to let you go, she is the BIG LOSER.
I know all the stats say that this will end and the fog will lift, but when I hear her talk it doesn't come of as babble (Even though I know it is). She sounds confident and sure of herself.
As far as the subconscious goes, it's just the day to day reinforcement that is starting to sink in. I feel bad that they keep repeating themselves, but I'm stating to accept that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Life will go on.
Mark and I have been emailing and he's been explaining his views on spirituality and God. His word is very convincing.
We'll make it through this Queenie! We have to make the choice as to how happy we want to be when all is said and done.
I can tell you that there is no such thing as a Christian base to spirituality. A Christian is one of those things you either is or you isn't. It isn't a philosophy or a system of rules. It is a relationship with the God of the universe...not "a" god, but GOD! The very same one whose real name can't even be spoken.
You can read the Dalai Lama if you want, but there is no way to resolve teachings of Siddhartha Gautama and Tenzin Gyatso with Christianity.
I understand what your saying. These are two completely different soiritual paths that do not and cannot intermingle because of what they represent. Am I getting close? Sorry for th T/J Queenie.
I know all the stats say that this will end and the fog will lift, but when I hear her talk it doesn't come of as babble (Even though I know it is). She sounds confident and sure of herself.
That my new friend is YOURS AND MY STINKIN THINKIN. I so go there with you, but we HAVE to STOP IT. Our negative thinking will be our downfall.
And it's us playing G-d. We really have NO IDEA what is going to happen. What we do KNOW is that we were a party to the demise of our M. We made mistakes that we are SORRY for and working very hard to identify, learn about, and change to make sure they don't happen again.
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but I'm stating to accept that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Life will go on.
I don't know about the light at the end of the tunnel, but you are right, life will go on and we will keep walking with one foot in front of the other no matter how painful. And when this chapter of our life is closed, we will have LEARNED so much and become BETTER people. No longer will we take LOVE for granted. We will understands the dynamics of relationships better and will be more willing to roll up our sleeves and work for it. Actually I always was, but I was knaive enough to believe so was my H. The innocence in us is probably gone, but for me, the depth of loving someone or wanting to love someone is stronger than ever.
I am designed to love someone. I have FAITH it will be my H. I want it to be him, but like it's beat into us, he has free will and may choose no.
The good news, is we don't have to focus on that today, just focus on us and healing ourself so that when our S choose to come home we will be rock solid in our conviction of what is going on and be a servant of G-d who can truly be a help to him as he heals our spouses. I don't know if that's corny or not, but it's somehow where I am tonight.
My rosey colored glasses are fading, but my conviction for getting healthy is strengething, it has somehow taken on a life of its own and I just need to keep turning it over to G-d and stay out of the way.
Yes we will make it through. I hope and pray our spouses are part of that. We also have to make the choice to get up everyday and learn to live life in a healthy and G-d loving way.
Does it really bring you hope? If not, that's ok too. I find that as happy as I am for others' successes, there is a part of me that thinks, oh that can't happen to me. My sitch is different.
The truth is, all the successes both personal and marital were as the result of hard work. Very hard work. And that's the key. We are choosing to work for our recovery and one day it will be us.
I don't know when or how, but it WILL BE US. We just have to claim it and work our butts off for it.
Knowing that others can go though something similar and be happy at one point is a good start, but my heart is telling me the same thing. It's hard to picture it as real right now.
One of the very first things that someone suggested when I first got into AA all those years ago, was act as if.
And today, my IC told me that one of the ways to start building my self-esteem up was to write down 5 things that I like about myself. To start telling myself that I am a good person. I can do this. Change the thinking immediately.
Pretty much everything Mimi has been trying to drown into me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She even told me to go ask close friends what good qualities they see about me and when they tell me, just say thank you. Don't disagree or push the notion away.
You and I are hurting, our self-esteem like so many others destroyed, it's no one elses job to build it back up by ours. And G-d is wanting us to seek him out to begin the process.
All we have to do is give our FAITH to G-d, come here and listen to the vets tell us what to do, remember we are NOT CRAZY or alone and that if we are willing to do the footwork we can and WILL recover.
We just have to completely trust G-d what that ends up looking like is beyond anything we can even imagine. We aren't G-d, our imagination is limited. G-d KNOWS what he can do to turn this into good and he is waiting for us to heal and let those blessings pour out.
Is it my imagination or do more WW change their mind that WH? I mean, my H has a woman at his home taking care of his every need. Why would he want to come back to me? Especially if I go completely dark?
Get the 2 x 4's out, but help me understand so I can settle it in my mind, ok?
WH finally contacted YS after almost a month with an email.
I'm glad he is reaching out to his kids.
Is it normal to go back and forth on this, but in the end what's best for my children is what should be most important not my case against his abandonment.
I don't know about the light at the end of the tunnel, but you are right, life will go on and we will keep walking with one foot in front of the other no matter how painful. And when this chapter of our life is closed, we will have LEARNED so much and become BETTER people. No longer will we take LOVE for granted. We will understands the dynamics of relationships better and will be more willing to roll up our sleeves and work for it. Actually I always was, but I was knaive enough to believe so was my H. The innocence in us is probably gone, but for me, the depth of loving someone or wanting to love someone is stronger than ever.
I've been meaning to tell ya this morning..THIS IS GREAT INSIGHT...I recommend for you to write this down in a journal so that you can refer back to it during your stinkin thinkin episodes...
You worked your Plan A while he was at home. Right now, I have such limited contact with him and my life is really actually moving on I can't fit into Plan A as easily. In 10 days I have had virtually no contact and I am not sure what to do about it.
I guess I am really following your instruction and focusing on me. Maybe it's a certain withdrawal.
What do you think?
I'm not giving up at all, I just am frustrated that I can't do more and almost don't have the energy to do it.
I was going to visit him at work on Monday or Tuesday morning and bring him those CD's that I bought him. And ask him then.
And partly because this week has been so wacky. When I talked to him on Wednesday, he was absolutely the WH and that's when we talked about getting the fields for his lacrosse team.
When he finds out its only to get him to play frisbee with me, that will not make him happy.
PLAN A is about YOU..remember? Meeting his ENs...ADMIRATION...getting his help...RECREATIONAL COMPANIONSHIP..you can have FUN together..PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS...he will get to see you...AFFECTION..you will take his hand...hug him...tell him you love him..
Actually I am wondering if I should wait to do that and talk to Steve first and really get my plan in perspective and on course again?
Calling him will not hurt..you can speak to Steve about his response..I'm suggesting for you TO DO something rather than stew in your thoughts....ACTION always helps STINKIN THINKIN...
After my workout, I'm gonna buy a NEW WREATH for the front door...I love NESTING...
How's the apartment coming along?
You've got to get ready to invite him over there...
Ok, Let me reread what you are saying and see what I can figure out.
The apt is done actually. Other than everyday cleaning, the bathrooms are decorated, pictures are hung, and the bedroom is set up with lots of empty space for him.
If I was going to be around this weekend, I would invite him over. But I will do that next week.
Is there a way for me to call him and tell him that I am sorry he won't be with me tonight and be setting up the bridal faire. I always enjoyed doing that with him.
I called him and invited him to come and help me set up tonight. He said he couldn't right now, and talked to me for a few minutes, but then hurried off and said he would call me back.
Queenie, Ive been trying all day to figure out how I will answer your question from late last night (or was that early this morning?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I can answer you, I think, but I don't want to come across as trying to convert you. And that in itself brings up a dilemma for me, because it is something that Christians are actually told to do...
I actually have a dear friend who is a rabbi in a Messianic Jewish congregation. I have attended their meetings and worship a few times as well. This guy and I have been studying the scriptures together for years and I stood up for his wedding when he remarried his wife after being divorced for almost 15 years.
This group is both Jewish AND Christian in that while remaining true to their Judaic roots, they have embraced Jesus or Jeshua as Messiah.
So I am not ignoring your question, just not sure how to proceed from here or if this forum is the place for it.
And if I don't get back to you before tomorrow...Shabbat Shalom!
How's the weather down "south" in your valley? Have you battened down the hatches? The winds might make things interesting at Qwest Field tomorrow.
I promise to watch-well, I promise to turn on the tv now and then to check the score and see what's going on. I really can't sit through a whole football game. I can't even sit through a whole quarter.
TMTS - I honestly don't think anything sticks in his mind.
I had a 12 minute conversation with him on the phone and I absolutely think he has lost him mind or is completely delusional. I don't know how else to explain this. It's beyond crazy.
I asked him again to come help me and he said oh no, I have way too much to do. Then I started asking leading and engaging questions. I don't know how to explain this so please forgive me if it's rambling, but I somehow have to get this straight in my mind.
I asked him how work was going and he started talking about how he was interviewing etc. I asked him what qualities he was looking for in an employee. His answer - in this order too - He has to have integrity, be honest, open and willingness. I just completely glossed over what he had just said because he is out of it. He sounds so happy. I is always so busy, never stops. I guess he can't really because they he would have to be with himself. And he can't can he?
This person isn't capable of emotion is he? He is so busy thinking he is in charge, in control, etc that he simply can't stop and feel the pain that he is causing, can he? It almost seems like he is absolutely detached from the reality of life of what's going on. Is that truly possible? Can he possibly live that way for the rest of his life? Or can he truly be that happy and just have completely moved on and has no emotions for his family. My H was warm, loving, sensitive. This WH is void of feelings and yet I would imagine he talks a great talk with her.
I feel like I am living in the twilight zone with this person and he has no grasp of what is truly going on in his families life. I'm scared for him. Because I honestly dont know if he is capable to look at things anymore.
We talked for 12 minutes and not once did he ask me how the kids were. We talked about NOTHING of any substance. Just about his job and how sure he is of what he wants in a person.
It's madness. Please tell me I am not nuts and this is what the WS is really like. Can they really be this lost an come back?
Mark, when you have time to answer the question, please do. This isn't about me converting or not, it's about me finding comfort in G-d. You have a spirit and a walk with G-d that brings peace to your words when you write me. I need that, so dont' worry about me taking offense, etc. G-d knows what he is doing and I am trusting him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thank you, it was a nice Shabbas tonight, near my Skins.
JT,
Oh yes, I got down there at 6:00. They arrived at 5:00. I got a few signatures, but I was just there with them. I got the owner's signature and Bernard Shaw. At first he was hesitant, but I assured him I knew who he was and wanted it. He asked me for my name and wrote something very nice.
I am going back at 6:00am. I should probably get to sleep. I just need to somehow find some reinforcement that what I experienced with WH is not unusual and it's absolute craziness.
It's windy, but not raining really bad. I hope the rain and wind is really bad tomorrow during the game. I think it will give the advantage to my Skins.
I actually got the whole day off from the wedding faire, will go be with my Skins in the morning and then be home by 11:00ish or so, to sit in the comforts of home to watch the game.
I remember My Dad driving in front of the house slowly just to get my M going. He came back, so yes I would think this is all standard WS foggy alien behavior.
I do completely understand where you’re coming from though. We want so much to see that glimpse of what we know is there, that when they act like this we just want to smack them around.
Hey, your skins are in town, focus on that for the next couple of days.
Yes, My Skins are close to me. I am focusing on them. I need to get to sleep, and be wide awake to leave around 6:00ish and be ready for pictures.
I don't know if I am looking for the glimpse as much as making sure I am NOT the crazy one and that his behavior and conversations are out of touch of reality.
He sounds happy, he sounds busy, he sounds like he has his life together, and here I am, hurt, crushed and trying to build my life back.
For me this is worse than any drug. At least then on some level he would know he is doing wrong. But this, there is NOTHING, no emotion, just happiness, if you know what I mean by the difference.
It is like he is absolutely unable to go into reality and face the destruction his actions have caused do he plays nice and everything is awesome.
You're making complete sense Queenie. He has to show you this to keep the fantasy alive. What would it look like if he looked all miserable? Wouldn't that just be a way for him to admit he is wrong? It all part of the delusion.
Mimi, please slap me around if I'm out of line here.
Let me put it this way for you: Even if you didn't like someone very much at all, when they went out of their way to be especially nice to you, wouldn't you have some reaction? Even if you hated a person you would at least push them away when they tried to get close.
It's 5:57 am and I am off to work to pick up my license plate - DCSKINS. Then the hotel.
I will be back to read what you all posted. Thank you. It really helps to center me and quit that stinking thinkin. I have a couple of questions (as normal) and I want to really digest what you are saying.
But you know what, if Plan A if to focus on myself being the best person I can be. Then I have to accept all my parts, on of them being my love for my football team.
I am outta here to go cheer them on and meet other Redskin fans and who knows who else.
I'll be back in a couple of hours. Have a great Saturday morning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It almost seems like he is absolutely detached from the reality of life of what's going on.
Again..CORRECT.
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Can he possibly live that way for the rest of his life?
Nope. That's why it's not gonna work....
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This WH is void of feelings and yet I would imagine he talks a great talk with her.
CONTINUAL BS..is how my H describes it...
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I feel like I am living in the twilight zone with this person
Yep..ACCEPT this as being the WAYWARD spouse. Don't lose this conception of him because THIS IS THE WAYWARD...
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Please tell me I am not nuts and this is what the WS is really like.
YOU are not NUTS. He is...
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Can they really be this lost an come back?
Mine did. Remember my NIGHTMARE? It is the WAYWARD HUSBAND in my nightmare, the WAYWARD HUSBAND that I am trying to FORGET. He was SUCH A MONSTER...ALMOST DEMONIC. Then I wake up and hold on to my REAL HUSBAND who is TOTALLY the OPPOSITE...The idea of him ever returning is PETRIFYING... He hasn't returned in FOUR WHOLE YEARS..I'm sure that he won't..
WONDERFUL NEWS about visiting with YOUR SKINS!! I'm so HAPPY FOR YOU!!
Well, I got lots of pictures and lots of signatures. It was awesome to be with them and cheer them on. I They are like a role model. In the face of horrid times they have risen to become better players and people.
Thanks Mimi for all the responses. I just have to shake my head. I guess where I can logically understand it, and I can experience it and know it's absolute madness. Where I get screwed up is talking to him and letting what he says affect me.
It's not that he is being mean, cruel, etc. It's like he is a politician. All talk and no substance if you know what I mean.
I need to go back and read your nightmare and gain more wisdom. It is awesome to hear about how you have grown and how FAITH has carried you through.
Hey Mark, [quote] Let me put it this way for you: Even if you didn't like someone very much at all, when they went out of their way to be especially nice to you, wouldn't you have some reaction? Even if you hated a person you would at least push them away when they tried to get close. {/quote] I don't get this. Help me along here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
LaLa, Today, I am not capable of lying to myself to the magnitude he is, and so I just need you to really help me understand that this is totally a WW mind? How do you get to that point? Do you tell yourself or it just happens?
Just mind boggling and sad. Because HE IS LOSING TIME and life is going on without him.
What I was trying to say, and it seems not doing very well, is that if you didn't like someone, you would respond negatively. If you liked someone, you would respond to them in a positive way. To have NO reaction is not the way a sane person reacts.
With as many times as you have reached out to him in so many ways that I lost count long ago, he just doesn't seem to have much of a response or reaction of any type. He isn't responding to you in a good way, but he isn't demanding that you leave him alone, move to New Guinea, and if you don't go away he will call the cops and have you arrested for stalking him.
In a normal person, one or the other should have happened by now. He clearly can't get himself to claim that he hates you and he won't admit that he loves you so he is stuck in this twilight zone in between reality and lost to the world.
And THAT is the way waywards act. It isn't understandable by any rational methods.And so as we say on MB, it is like he has been abducted by aliens...
It is likely that he is still in there some place and if the alien ever gets tired of playing with him and clouding his thought process, the real husband might just be able to break free.
But this assumes that you haven't been hurt more than you can stand and decide to find someone who is a lot less work.
That explain it better...or did I confuse you further? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
To have NO reaction is not the way a sane person reacts.
But unfortunately that IS how he reacts to things. One of the things that drove me the farthest away was his ability to avoid feelings and shut downs emotionally. I believe it's his way of staying in control at all costs.
He is so tightly wind because emotions scare him. But MY H after some amount of time would at least be willing to look at his behavior and finally open up. THIS MONSTER HAS NO EMOTIONS, or when he shows it, it's about HIM BEING THE VICTIM or HAPPY as a CLAM and ALWAYS BUSY.
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he is stuck in this twilight zone in between reality and lost to the world.
And that is what got him into this mess. He is not able to face his demons and lives a life of escaping but making sure he is right as he does it.
{quote] But this assumes that you haven't been hurt more than you can stand and decide to find someone who is a lot less work. [/quote] I married this man because he had good drugs. I grew to love him because he was a devoted husband and family man. I fell in love with him because I just did. Hurt, oh yes, there are deep hurts from him that are probably forever seared in my life. I can't imagine them being any worst that what I have experienced. I'm no martyr, just someone who understands that hurts that exists inside her husband and wants to be there for him. Not fix him, but walk through with him.
What I don't know is if he will give me the chance to love him and be that wife. And I am the one who feels like the loser.
It does explain it better. I just wish the reality of the situation was better and not so hopeless.
Mark unfortunately put something in such a way that really has me sad. I don't know how to explain what he said and why it's effected me so hard.
I wish he was here so I could process what he is saying and what I perceive reality to be.
I think what is bothering me most. Is who was my H really before this started, how did he get to this place of being able to do what he did and would he EVER be willing to change. I just don't know and I don't know how to find out.
NO ONE knows my H, no one. I know him the best, and I have NO CLUE who this WH is or what drives him.
So, I'm sad, very sad.
And it doesn't help that the Redskins aren't playing so good.
THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT YOUR WH!! HE IS GARDEN-VARIETY WAYWARD SPOUSE!! Just like my H was and most others here..there is NOTHING SPECIAL about HIS PERSONALITY...
It's awful and hurtful what he is doing..
But nothing more awful or hurtful than any of our WAYWARD HUSBANDS have done..
Why don't you believe me?
MY HUSBAND WAS A DESPICABLE MONSTER!!! CRAZY ALIEN DEMON!!...SCARY but it is what it is...that's what I mean about ACCEPTANCE...It is what it is...
POWERLESSNESS..and turning it all over to GOD...TRUSTING in HIM...FAITH that HE will take care of ME...looking for the BLESSINGS in the midst of TRAUMA...
Mimi was your H a wonderful man before the A or did the A change him into the monster?
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POWERLESSNESS..and turning it all over to GOD...TRUSTING in HIM...FAITH that HE will take care of ME...looking for the BLESSINGS in the midst of TRAUMA...
This is where I am at. I am powerless over my H. Our marriage had become unmanageable. I can turn it over to G-d. And I have FAITH that he will take care of ME. I can find the blessings in the midst of this TRAUMA. The blessings for me personally. I can even be honest enough and say one day I will recover.
This place that I am coming to is truly looking at who my H was before all this. Yes, he LOVED me, WAS DEVOTED to me, WAS a LOVING FATHER, completely HANDS ON.
But emtionally he avoids, in life he avoids, in responsibility he avoids. He talks a good talk, but there was NO substance.
And so I guess what I am wondering and will ask Steve. Is can he become a completely different person that he was before all this. Can he become responsible. Can he become a completely new person? Or does the OLD person come back.
The affair turned my H into a monster. He had his faults, though. He still has issues but I ACCEPT HIM for who he is and don't want to change him into whom I want him to be.
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But emtionally he avoids, in life he avoids, in responsibility he avoids. He talks a good talk, but there was NO substance.
So WHO IS IT THAT YOU LOVE? You can't change him into who you want him to be.
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And so I guess what I am wondering and will ask Steve. Is can he become a completely different person that he was before all this. Can he become responsible. Can he become a completely new person? Or does the OLD person come back.
Basically, THE OLD PERSON comes back...comes back BROKEN..but it will be the OLD PERSON.
You are confusing me. Who is the man that you are so in love with? You don't LIKE HIM? You want to change him into someone else?
I had a good analogy for you, but if you’re not familiar with the show my analogy will just confuse you.
You mention something about your H and responsibility or lack of. What do you mean?
Mimi's questions need to be considered carefully, because at one point you need to make sure that you're not putting yourself through this to save him from the mess he's in. It's not easy (I've asked myself the question as well) and you need to live with the consequence of your answer.
Please Queenie, you want to do what right for you, not what right for your WH.
You are confusing me. Who is the man that you are so in love with? You don't LIKE HIM? You want to change him into someone else?
Very good questions indeed.
Who am I so in love with. The man who was willing to keep trying on our marriage until we got it right. The man who is the father of my children and wanted to live a life together. The man who at one time had deep integrity and just wanted a wife and family to love and be with. The man who is sensitive and just willing to be open to trying another way.
I don't like some of the stuff he does. He can be extrememly frustrating to me. He complained about so much, and even for all the changes I have made because I wanted to, they aren't going to fix him, they couldn't possibly because the happiness he is looking for has to come from within himself.
I jwant to be completely honest with myself about who he is so that I am not looking to change him into someone he isn't thereby possibly repeating some of the mistakes that I made in the past.
I am NOT the same person I was before he left. I was looking for him to make me happy and it isn't his job. My relationship with G-d is the single most important spirit in my life. I don't need my H to fix me.
Above all else, I wasn't the woman that G-d envisioned me to be, I didn't do my best and I want another chance. Not to fix him, but simply because I love him for all his faults. I just want to understand what all those faults are so I can learn how to work with them and find a way to make a brand new marriage.
Does that make sense?
The sadness come from understanding that who is can be the very person that would NEVER allow himself to backdown and come home and try again. And that makes me sad because I dont' want to be right about this.
I don't want to fix him or change him, I just want to love him.
When I first read this I was sure you were talking about WH. Maybe I'm getting a little confused. There's no way anything happens with WH, but if our H comes back, can you be happy?
You alright? I'm alone tonight so I'm not going anywhere.
You mention something about your H and responsibility or lack of. What do you mean?
He didn't like to pay bills, he didn't want to do yardwork. He likes to start things, but not finish them. He likes chaos and then walk away when he is done with the fun. He lives in a world where his very existence is the need to be right at all costs.
What is right for me, is to honor my M vows and completely understand that I accept my H for who he is and not try to change him.
I am truly struggling to find the words that I want to say. He is my friend, he is the complete picture of a life I want to build with him that has G-d as the central part guiding us. Am I saying this right?
Can someone help me put it into better words?
And I guess while I am being completely honest. I promised G-d to love him all the days of my life. What he has done hasn't given me the out to walk away it's just made me have to dig deep and find a way to keep honoring my vow to G-d. And I am ok with that.
Not a sense of duty, but because it's who I am and it's what I believe M is about. I got lost in the sickness of my dry drunk. My dry drunk wanted him to be different. Me, just wants another chance to love him and with G-d create a magical life together.
I'm in a very weird place, that's for sure. Reflective. Not feeling sorry for myself, but honestly looking at the reality.
If the man who is sensitive, caring, committed, funny, playful along with all his faults comes back. YES, I could be very happy.
Because I AM DIFFERENT. I wouldn't be looking for him to FIX me like I was. I have G-d for that. And because I have G-d, I can go to him to help guide me on how to LOVE my H as a Proverbs 31 would.
Queenie, the next thing I want to ask is a tough one, so I want to make sure your up for it right now. If not I'll keep it in by back pocket until you are.
You seem to be in a very philosophical mood tonight. That’s good. It's funny you describe where he came up short because those are two things I'm not very fond of doing (Not the bills themselves, but the budgeting). It sounds like these are things that you can live with, if worse come to worse get the whole yard paved over and build a tennis court. (That was a sad attempt at humour).
I am not fighting this hard to turn around and go back to my old ways.
We both understand that only you have control over this part, but what if the broken H comes back and because of withdrawal and/or depression, he has even less motivation and acts even less responsible. Do you still think you can help him through it and be happy? What if he doesn't snap out of that mode for a couple of years, does anything in your heart or mind change?
Yes, there is a chance that your WH could come back and change, but only if he yields himself to God's work in his life. And that's a choice that your H will have to make on his own. But, that doesn't mean you can't pray for that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Do you still think you can help him through it and be happy?
Not me alone. How it happens will be by G-d design and G-d alone. G-d will give me the direction to go and the skills to do what he needs me to.
What makes me happy will be knowing that G-d is working in me to continue to become the woman he always envisioned. I love my H, I made a vow to G-d and it will be G-d that gives me the strength to walk through whatever healing process I need to in my M.
I only watched a few minutes of the game, but I was thinking of you. I think it's so cool that the Redskins still keep Sean Taylor's name on the roster as a starter. What a great way to honor his memory.
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I just don't know if I will get that chance.
One thing is for sure, God is a God of second (and third and fourth) chances. Israel's history certainly shows this to be true. Your hope and faith are in good hands.
I'm a Bears fan... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
And a Cubs fan... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> (Anybody can have a bad century)
And a Bulls fan... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> (they're fighting against Sacramento tonight for the honor of the worst record in the NBA...How far the mighty have fallen)
I was a Black Hawks fan, but they have just been ridiculous... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I just clued in that is was playoff time. I'm watching the Steelers game right now. Sorry about your skins.
How you feeling right now? You sounded like you were doing ok for a while there. But I get the feeling the talk about H comming back got you down. You alright?
I don't know if I have any words of wisdom for you or not. My last attempt at sharing my thoughts with you cause you pain and fear...Not what I intended at all.
I'm just sitting here watching bull riding and flipping back to the game every once in a while. So if you have a question I can answer, I'll give it a try...Hopefully I won't make you feel worse...
I think you are RIGHT. It's a control thing maybe?
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Anymore decorating needed?
I can't really decorate an apt. That is a bummer too.
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I thought you were going to study HEBREW? Do I have that right?
Yes you do. I kinda put it off didn't I. I will do an online search and see what I can come up with.
It's funny, it's not like I am just sitting around doing nothing. I work full time, have a 2nd job, go to AA meetings, exercise, go to fake and bake, still am PTA President, and Area Director of PNW for Women of Reform Judaism, not to mention I went out to the bar with friends. I had the Redskins and soon I will have my boys lacrosse season starting up. Am raising the boys pretty much alone, so my time is taken up.
It's just there is no joy. I am just going through the motion of life. Not enjoying it.
So, I think I need to somehow dig deeper inside, and pray to G-d for guidance.
My self-esteem needs work, no doubt there. So I need to ask G-d for direction on that and start putting it into place.
And pray for the willingness to stop needing TO DO something. G-d is doing ENOUGH. Isn't he. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And truthfully I don't even know what he is DOING.
TMTS, The old me would have been angry, crushed, in a bad mood and all around dark figure to be around over this loss. I'm truly sad that I don't have them for inspiration and to occupy my mind.
Talking about H coming home didn't get me back down. I can NOT live in a false reality. I have to be willing to accept all parts of my old life, marriage and relationship with my H in order for it to completely changed. Truly learn from my mistakes and see what changes I can make.
I hate not knowing the outcomes. Remember, I am the one who reads the end of the book first. So again, this is an inside job for me to work on.
That's all. I'm restless, but this is actually good too. I often was always going to NOT feel. I have to work through my feelings and learn my truths so I learn about me. It's just a hard process.
I don't know if I have any words of wisdom for you or not. My last attempt at sharing my thoughts with you cause you pain and fear...Not what I intended at all.
Your words didn't cause me pain. This journey I am on, is tough. I need to learn alot about myself and learn about what G-d intends for me.
I need you to, I'm strong enough to look at all things because if I don't, then I won't grow. I don't the luxury of resting on my laurels and not looking at all points and feelings.
Please don't stop. And remember, what you says can not MAKE ME feel anyway. It's how I choose to take it, or look at it. So, please don't hold back.
So since I believe that I am on a spiritual battle to become the woman that G-d has always envisioned for me, knowing when and what G-d is saying is hard for me. So first question, how do you know when you are really hearing G-ds word versus your desire of what you want.
The Steelers aren't doing so good are they?
Do you say certain prayers that help you to become closer to G-d. What do you do?
We're here for you. I don't know what to do with myself either. I have no motivation to do anything. I should be doing something, at very least catch up on sleep or do some reading, but I just can't myself into it.
My WW is next door hanging out with the neighbors. I would go over but someone has to watch the kids.
So you're stuck with me for the evening. The Steelers are not playing well at all. 3 int. in the first half... real ugly.
My rabbi told me when this happened that I needed to become rock solid strong. He would guarantee that my H would crash and burn and would been to be rock solid.
I need to become battle tested. I need to be able to look at all my bad parts and work through them, not to punish me but see where I can make changes.
I need to develope a spritual walk that is unshakable because I need to be mentally, physically and most of all spiritually ready to walk into my new M.
Putting G-d first needs to become like breathing to me. Not just lip service. And most importantly I need to learn that I am a good creation from G-d. I need to fight through this to honor G-d by caring about myself and knowing that I am good through and through. I'm way better, but this is spiritual progress, not spiritual perfeciton.
Hopefully it's normal! I've told my WH several times that I want him to be happy, but I want him to be happy with me. Of course I hope he and OW are miserable soon, soon, soon!!! I can't stand it. I felt like telling him something yesterday like when she smiles at you, know I am crying for you, or the kids are missing you or something like that, but then thought maybe that would be not nice, a LB.
Thanks Queenie, it's comforting to know there's someone out there that understands what we are going through. I am glad you're there as well. I don't feel so alone.
I think every BS must have this thought at one time or another, unless they don't care at all about the WS. So is it normal, I think so. Is it wrong, probably but when there is this much hurt it tough to not think it.
My F keeps telling me that one day she will cry more than I did. Unfortunately they have to hit rock bottom first. He's been a great help, and I will remember 2007 as the year I reconciled with my Father. As my former boss told me, you can always get another W, you only have one Father.
I've been reading the passages that Mark suggested nightly and clutch the bible in my hand when going to sleep. I also say prayers for my friends here... including your WH and my WW. I do find that it helps... a message of hope for the hopeless. I do still get a guilty feeling when asking for help for myself because I had pretty much denounce my faith completely. (I'm ashamed to admit that). So 2008 is going to be the year I rediscover my faith.
(Mark - if you have other passages that are a must read, please let us know).
I seldom say set or pre-written prayers. When I read the psalms of David, I see a man crying out to God from his heart, telling God when he is angry, hurting, ashamed, afraid...all of the emotions we can experience as men and women. And I also see a pattern in many of those as David begins by pleading his case and telling God how and why he is upset or angry...and by the end of most of those very same psalms, David is giving thanks to Him for what He has already done and for what He has yet to do.
When I am trying to focus my life on God's will, I often read Psalm 119, which is not only the longest of the psalms, but actually the longest 'chapter" of the entire Bible at 176 verses in length. Some things from that psalm:
v 33-37 Teach me, O Lord, to follow your decrees; Then I will keep them to the end. Give me understanding, and I will keep your law and obey it with all my heart. Direct me in the path of your commands, for there I find delight. Turn my eyes toward your statutes and not toward selfish gain. Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word.
v 81/82 My soul faints with longing for your salvation, but I have put my hope in your word. My eyes fail, looking for your promise; I say, "When will you comfort me?"
v 105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.
v 169/170 May my cry come before you, O Lord; give me understanding according to your word. May my supplication come before you; deliver me according to your promise.
Psalm 55, one of David's, begins: Listen to my prayer, O God, do not ignore my plea; hear me and answer me. My thoughts trouble me and I am distraught at the voice of the enemy, at the stares of the wicked...
By the end of that same psalm he writes: But as for me, I trust in you.
David wrote this after betrayal by a friend...
I have some thoughts for you on finding the will of God, but I'll save that for later...
Darn, how later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It's interesting. I have my Tanakh open and am following along with yours. I never really realized how many differences there are.
v 33-37 Teach me, O Lord, to follow your decrees; Then I will keep them to the end. Give me understanding, and I will keep your law and obey it with all my heart. Direct me in the path of your commands, for there I find delight. Turn my eyes toward your statutes and not toward selfish gain. Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word.
Here's what mine says Teach me, Oh Lord, the way of your laws; I will observe them to the utmost Give me understanding, that I may observe Your teaching and keep it wholeheartedly. Lead me in the path of Your Commandments, for that is my concern. Turn my hear to Your decrees; and not to love of gain Avert my eyes from seeing falsehoods by Your ways preserve me.
This is a gathering of understanding. You used commands versus commandments, so what are the commands from which you draw from?
tmts- if Mark gives you passages I'd like them too... I stopped attending church about, geesh going on almost 3yrs and before that I was there every! sunday ;-( I've continued praying all along though, a lot more lately!
skins, sorry 'bout the game. Sounds like you had a busy day though. Wish I had done something/anything!
Nothing specifically for me today. We had a little birthday party for my YDD, and worked on some EN towards my WW, told her how sexy she looked and did a few little back rubs, and running of my fingers through her hair. Luckily enough she doesn't push me away. So it’s more Plan A Turbo while she’s here. I’ve become a master at avoiding LBs and meeting ENs, I still need to work on the stick part, but I pick me spots for that. The next incarnation of pulling out the stick will be when we meet with the mediator, which btw she told me she had talked to on Thursday, but has yet to call him back to set up a meeting. I don’t read anything into it, I think it’s just a matter of having so many things going through her head. I spoke to her BF today and she now is on board with what I’m telling her about the A being the biggest determining factor in her decisions. See my WW is not a leader, she’s a follower. This has put all the decision making on my shoulders, which is fine as I’ve been used to making my own decisions since I was 14, and am more than comfortable making decisions for the good of my family. I involved her in the big decisions, but for anything petty she would prefer I made the call. So now is she trying to spread her wings? This is what her BF was thinking before, but is having second thoughts on it because she has know her to need to have someone to follow, and if the OM won’t be there then will she reconsider. We will see.
I am actually doing remarkably well over the game. There was a time when I would have been grouchy, screaming at the kids and taking my anger and frustration out on my H and kids.
This is a MIRACLE. This is a BLESSING and this is G-d working in my life.
Yes, I am sad. Yes I am going to miss them for a few months, but it's not nearly the devastation as D-day. My skins bring me such joy and inspiration of their perserverance, but my family is SO MUCH more important.
I used to say I would sell my soul for this team. I choose to believe that G-d has my soul now and is working on it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What do you like to do for yourself? Why didn't you do anything?
I am looking on other threads and found this from the Prodicals one a few years back.
I actually find much comfort in it. Not to mention I have written it down in my Tanakh.
BELIEVE FOR YOUR MIRACLE!
"I will remember the deeds of the LORD; yes, I will remember your miracles of long ago. I willmeditate on all your works and consider all your mighty deeds. Your ways, O God, are holy. What god is so great as our God? You are the God who performs miracles; you display your power among the peoples." Psalm 77:11-14
Do you believe in miracles? I do! Bob and I just celebrated our sixteenth anniversary of his coming back home remarrying me on July 7, 1987. That was a miracle! He had told me for months and years, "I will never, never come back home. You are not accepting and adjusting to this divorce. I do not love you. Get on with your life. I have someone else."
BUT GOD had other plans and had given me so many promises from His Word not to give up on my Lord or on my husband! I gave up due to all our circumstances, as they seemed overwhelming. I filed for divorce,but God knew my heart and forgave me, giving me a second chance to follow Him completely, regardless of what other people were saying.
We celebrated our anniversary Monday evening with a large crowd of standers at Rejoice Bible study. Some of the women surprised us with a beautiful anniversary cake as they sang to us. It was an answer to my prayers that I prayed so many years ago, "Let me help other people to believe that God can and does heal hurting marriages." Nothing is too hard for your Lord to fix. Just believe in His mighty power.
"...But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us." 'If you can?' said Jesus. ‘Everything is possible for him who believes.' Immediately the boy's father exclaimed ‘I do believe help me overcome my unbelief!" Mark 9:22-24
Your Lord Jesus Christ performed miracles throughout His ministry. Jesus performed miracles of healing the sick and bringing life to the dead. He did miracles showing power over nature, calming a storm, walking on water and feeding 5000 people. Even the apostles did miracles after their Lord Jesus Christ was crucified demonstrating that the power of the Messiah who had been crucified and risen was with them. Miracles are from God to show others the power of your Lord God. Your Lord God wants to get the glory and honor for the restoration of your marriage, so be sure to give Him all the praise!
We often hear the comment that, "It would take a miracle to straighten out the mess in my marriage." God has not changed. He still works miracles. Would you allow your Lord to work a miracle in your life and marriage? When the circumstances make it all seem so impossible is exactly when you're ready for your miracle. If things are tough right now, don't look around for your example--look up to your Lord Jesus Christ. Your Lord God loves your spouse more than you ever will. Your Lord Jesus Christ is interceding for your husband or wife daily and the Holy Spirit is convicting your spouse in a thousands different ways about "Going Home." Going back home to their Lord and then going home to their families! God is doing miracles everyday! Thank Him for all that you do not see that is being done this very day by your Lord. Praise the Lord for all that He is doing in ALL the prodigals hearts!
"Nothing is impossible with God." Mark 10:27
In Nehemiah, God did a miracle by rebuilding a wall in 52 days that was destroyed. Are you willing to rebuild your home? God can rebuild and restore a marriage if we will do like Nehemiah did. Go to God,ask Him to rebuild your marriage on the solid rock of Jesus Christ. Allow God to show you His plan in rebuilding your home, one brick at a time. Anything worth having takes time and perseverance. You are not only rebuilding your home for you, your spouse and for your children, but for generations to come!
Throughout the Bible God did miracles in the Old and New Testament. Noah built an ark to save his family. Moses was used by God to part the Red Sea. Joshua had the priests carry the ark of the covenant taking the first steps into the Jordan as its waters were overflowing, but the water stood up in a heap. In Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were thrown into the furnace seven times hotter than usual and then God sent his angel who rescued his servants. As we read the Bible, we see God doing miracles for His people from Genesis to Revelation.
What should you do to receive and believe for your miracles of restoration for your marriage?
Step 1: Never give up!
Step 2: Focus on your Lord God. Remember your covenant wedding vows.
Step 3: Step into the Water. Believe in God's mighty power.
Step 4: Trust God - Take steps of faith.
Step 5: A faith walk IS a difficult walk. Develop perseverance.
Step 6: Stand on the 3000 plus promises in the Word of God.
Step 7: Do not panic. Problems are part of life.
Step 8: Believe and expect the promises will become a reality.
Step 9: Keep a clean heart and a renewed, focused mind.
Step 10: Be in the perfect will of God.
Step 11: Live in obedience.
Today start beleving, praying and expecting your miracle for your marriage!
Lately, I like to run or read. Just busy with the party (Had 10 8-9 year old girls running around the place). Then after supper, I just couldn't get motivated to get on the treadmill. But see, now with a little more guidance from Mark, I will be learning a little more, so I guess I could say that I did do something for myself...
I get the impression that you are in need of building up your own self-esteem. My IC told me to write down 5 things that I like about myself everyday.
So here goes... 1. I like my eyes. 2. I like that I am a much more calmer person than I used to be. 3. I like that I can fit into my Redskins jacket 4. I like that I truly genuinely care for people 5. I like that my heart, as bad as it's been heart has NOT given up on my H.
For the last 6 months it's been all relationship books, but usually I'll read a fiction novel (I like Tom Clancy, John Sandford, Stephen King, Dan Brown) then something that I can learn from, financial, personal growth.
Ok 5 things I like about myself... I've never done this before.
1- I like that I look for the good in people. 2- I like I have a good spirit. 3- I like I got my weight, blood pressure and cholesterol down. 4- I like that I can get along with anybody. 5- I like that I am loyal.
How's that? It does make me feel better about myself.
I don't know how much later...It seems we have a game on our hands. Steelers 1st and goal at the 5...2nd and goal at the 1...3rd and goal...4th and goal...
Make it 1st and goal...TD...Steelers lead by 1.
I think some of the differences come from how the two translations came about and the time when they were translated. A great deal of difference in language comes from different time periods.
If you compare the two versions, you will see that there is really no difference in meaning, only in the words used.
For example..."Whole heartedly"...really the same thing as "with all my heart"
The word command is really the same as commandments. And, yes, those are the very same for both of us. It refers to the 10 commandments and to the sum total of the law, but I think can also apply to individual revelation as well, which I think in the case of David came in some cases through the profit, Nathan, but at times directly from God himself.
Jags by 2 with under a minute.
A young man asks an older man that he considers to be godly and an example of how God expects us to live our lives to be his mentor. The old man agrees and tells him to be at his house at 6am to learn about God and how to follow His will.
The young man shows up a few minutes early and the old man comes outside to greet him. After shaking hands, the older man says simply, "follow me." and walks off into the woods.
The young man struggles to keep up as the older man begins to climb the mountain. He climbs over logs, scrambles over rocks and ducks under low hanging branches with ease. The younger man is nearly exhausted just from trying to keep up. He tries to get the older man's attention to tell him he needs to rest, but the old man climbs over a huge bolder and disappears, so he picks himself up and carries on.
Finally the old man pushes through the branches of the trees surrounding a clearing and in that clearing is a high mountain lake. The old man stands on the bank of that lake as the younger man falls to his knees beside him. He pants for breath and his lungs burn from exertion. He leans forward, cups his hands together and begins to take a drink from the edge of the cold clear lake.
The older man places his foot on the back of the younger man's head and pushes hs face under the water, holding him there as he begins to struggle. Finally, as the young man is about to lose hope of even surviving this ordeal, the old man lets him up.
As the younger man flops onto his back beside the lake, looking into the face of the man he began the day with so much respect for, he cries out, "What are you doing! Are you trying to kill me?"
The older man bends down, placing his hand on the younger man's head and whispers..."You have to want what He wants even more than you want your next breath."
Steelers are toast...
Mark
PS You guys are too IM oriented for my poor old fingers. I have to think about what I'm going to say before i type it. And by the time I finish my thoughts, you guys have posted two pages on me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
6- I like my sense of humour 7- I like my love for animals 8- I like that I have a nice butt. LOL 9- I like my personality 10- I like that I'm likable.
I just had a short, intersting conversation with WH. I think I might have confused him. And this totally came from G-d. I wrote him hi there, he responded with Condolensces. My answer - oh there are way more important things in life than a silly game. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And then he went on to complain about Seahawk fans and how he hates them. I asked him how come, he responded with a smart comment. Then I answered - God takes care of everyone in his own way. (I don't think he liked that comment, he said nothing) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I followed Mimi's suggestion about helping me with frisbee. I have asked him three times now to help me throw the frisbee. He hasn't said no, but he certainly hasn't said yes. In fact we were talking about him playing soccer and he made the comment that he needs to get into shape better or that he was stiff. I suggested that running with me for frisbee would be a great way. Boom, he was gone.
Oh that was right after I thanked him for all the years he helped me with the Bridal Faire. I told him it was a blessing that I hope to ask him for next year and then asked about the frisbee.
Boom he was gone, not a goodbye, nothing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Why his mother would be shocked at his bad manners. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
So how should I handle it? I have really no emotion on this. It's the weekend and typically he is the binging man again. But should I keep asking about the frisbee or try something else.
6- I like my sense of humour 7- I like my love for animals 8- I like that I have a nice butt. LOL 9- I like my personality 10- I like that I'm likable.
hmmm if he took off that quickly I wonder if OW came in the room and he didn't want her knowing he was chatting with you? maybe he is feeling a little guilty ;-)
I probably should have read this before I went to sleep. Another night of tossing and turning. UGH!!!
I don't think I should go down that road of picturing what he does at home with her. It could be very grusome and hurtful to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Not to mention insanity and sadness.
I'm with you there, I was up until 4, just couldn't fall asleep. WW came home from next door stumbling drunk at 3 am, it must be nice being a party girl now. I'm not doing this next weekend! If she decides that we are not going to spend the tome together, I'm going out! No idea where or to do what, but I'm getting out. She's hung over this morning so I suspect I'll see the alone come out at one point.
Had a weird dream just before I woke up. It my have something to do with your question about animals. We were driving in the country (Couldn't tell who was with me) but I was naming off the farm animals we saw and would say what their use as a farm animal was. Saw, cows, pigs, sheep, lamas, emus, horses...then I got to donkeys and couldn't figure out their use, and then I woke up.
I was at at bridal faire today. I go make up for brides. I did better than I thought.
I'm really touched that you missed me. Thank you, you can't imagine how special that makes me feel. Thank you.
I made an appt to do some timeline work on my life. I need to see where in my life my CORE belief about not deserving love or being a lovable person came to be.
I also had a break through with my sponsor tonight. I told her that I had a spark of a feeling that I can imagine my life without my H and that was ok. I sobbed for a few minutes. It was the first time I ever said something like that.
The topic at the AA meeting tonight was surrender. Could I hopefully be doing that a little more and letting my faith take over. I hope so.
I am sitting on my bed starting to write a letter to my mom and making amends to her for all the bad things I did. And then I am going to start to work on me.
How are all of your doing tonight? I missed you today. Did you watch the games. Serenity, what did you do for yourself? Actually what did all of you do for yourselves.
Glad to here from you Queenie, you had us worried there for a while. There was another poster that had changed names because the crazy OW got a hold of their sign on name, and we thought it might be you.
Sound like you are in a real good space right now, that's great.
I'll let you read my posts for today. I had a pretty exciting morning.
Other than that I cooked a chicken stew, did some reading, and played guitar hero with the kids.
Bad part is I got up at 11AM and can't sleep right now, and got to go back to work tomorrow. I also talked to my M (that's always entertaining) she was a BS in 1980, so she's not familiar with MB principals. She does have her own though... She's telling me to go to plan take care of yourself and the kids and don't worry about her. I take it as a modified plan B. LOL.
I also wrote my first draft of PBL, but it was so bad I burnt it.
I'll probably be here for a while, so we'll talk to you in a bit.
JT, Thank you. You can't, maybe you do, but thank you. To be missed by people is something that I don't take for granted and am very appreciative of.
Have a good day tomorrow. Are you happy about it? How are you doing with the kids being gone? Can I do anything for you?
TMTS,
As soon as I finish the letter to my mom I'll be back and read your thread. Your mother sounds like a wise woman. Are you close to her? How did writing the first draft feel like.
Thank you. I am glad to be going back. I miss my students when I'm gone. I am also glad that my OS is back at school safely (crossing the pass can be dicey) and am feeling so much better about him because we had time to talk and relax. It's so good to see him with his little brother. He is also a very open young man, so we were able to talk about a lot of his concerns. It's hard to be the oldest boy in a situation like this. He feels a lot of responsibility for his little bro with his dad gone. But it is much better than last year and the worries they all had about me....enough said about that.
We need to plan some time to get together. I think it would be fun to come down to Bellevue Square sometime now that it isn't the holidays. Let me know when you have a free Saturday. I'll take advantage of it and visit my folks too (on M.I.).
Your mother sounds like a wise woman. Are you close to her?
Yes, very much. When my F left us, she when right into plan FU and made sure we were taken care of.
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How did writing the first draft feel like
Not good, it felt like I was giving up. I know that it's part of the process and will need to be done (Unless G-d's plan is different), and it made me realize once more how much I love my W. On the good side I didn't sob or feel sad at all, it was like I was writing a brand new set of plays for the playoffs.
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What are 5 things you like about yourself today?
I should have known this one was coming and got ready for it...
1- I like my character 2- I like that I have a quick wit. 3- I like that I can relate to the teens in my life. (ODD and friends) 4- I like that I am laughing again. 5- I like that I like to cook.
How am I doing?
What about you... How was the fair? How are you feeling? Any drama from WH?
I understand what you are saying about your boys and the sense of responsibility and feelings that go along with this situation. I would love to hear more about how you handle things, so I can learn from you. You have so much wisdom and a peace that I loved being around.
Yes, let's get together very soon. I need to check the calendar and see when if there is anything planned. I really would love to do it soon. It would be good for the both of us to get out and have some fun. No holiday crowds either.
I will be thinking about you tommorrow.
Love you and sleep well if you get this before you go to sleep.
Yes, very much. When my F left us, she when right into plan FU and made sure we were taken care of.
What did that look like. I am asking so I can make sure that I am taking care of my boys. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Are you getting advice on when you are to do Plan B? If you are to do Plan B. I obviously don't know much about that at all, but I know the one thing that resonates is your heart and mind need to be in sync. Do you know what that means for you? Also people say that it's at a point when you are in danger of losing all your love for your wife, so please ask many question on here for yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am starting to get a sense of being in sync, but I need to check with Steve on Tuesday first.
YES, how are you doing? LOL
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What about you... How was the fair? How are you feeling? Any drama from WH?
The fair wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. I networked with people, didn't eat any cake and just didn't put pressure on myself to perform and not feel. I prayed and just let G-d be there for me. I talked to my business associate alot about stuff so that was helpful.
I am needing to move forward on my 9th step. It's time for me to put the club down on my past behaviors to others and especially myself. This reluctance to keep moving forward because I am afraid it will leave my H behind is stopping G-d from continuing to work in my life and create me into what he wants me to be. I have no right to do that and need to stop it.
Drama from WH. I was talking to Smartiepants tonight. We were talking about what Mark has said about sane behavior. I realized that WH has completely left me and the marriage. Today he is completely done. He doesn't have the chutzpah to tell me to leave him alone, and yet he doesn't want to have anything to do with me.
Lots to process with Steve and get my game plan together. Lots to surrender to G-d and the one thing I know.... I don't want to hurt anymore. I don't want to fight G-d. I want to be of maximum service to him and others and I need to grab the light that lives inside of me and let G-d bless it for the good it can do and be.
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE my H. I want him to come home. But in AA there is a saying that says G-d gives you what you need, not what you want. For whatever reason, G-d doesn't believe I need my H and I have to TRUST him, WALK in FAITH, and let G-d lead me to the good plan he has for me. It's the ONLY WAY for my M to be restored.
It's funny, in order to get back, I have to let go. And letting go is the thing that frightens me the most. I have NO CHOICE, but to TRUST G-D. I screwed it up myself, now it's time to give G-d the CHANCE to do what he WANTS and allow myself to BENEFIT from the blessings of my obedience to him.'
What hours do you work? Are you aloud to be on marriage builders during the day?
I'm concerned by your tone tonight. It's got a "I give" tone to it. Like you said your heart and mind need to be in sync. Are you sure you're there? Is this coming from the heart or the mind? I got a tear in my eye for you reading this, that's why I ask. You sound deflated and beat. Can I tell you anything to pick you up?
I'm going to need to learn a little about the 12 steps to be able to keep up with you. I have heard that it is helpful for all addictions, and I could probably learn something about my addiction to weed.
I work from 7:30 to 4:30ish. Getting on-line is not a problem, I'm the operations manager for the place and I'm also responsible for IT, people come to me for access.
I'm in a good space right now, but I worry about you. Please let me know you’re OK.
What did that look like? I am asking so I can make sure that I am taking care of my boys.
Well the best way to describe it is that she didn't take any [email]c@&p[/email] from him. Right from the time he left, I think it was about three weeks later, she went to see a lawyer and get an LSA set up. He didn't contest anything in it. So she made sure that the house was put in her name, she got child support and put us first. Everything she did was for us. At the end of the school year we moved to our home town in northern New Brunswick because we were able to get support for both sides of our family. So we lived with my Grandparents for one year then got an apartment. It wasn’t long after we got the apartment that my F came out of the fog, but there was no way my M was moving back until she felt sure. This process took about 9-10 months, where my m would come back to Toronto for the weekend or he would come and visit us about once a month. (When M came to Toronto, it was party time...) So M was working and I would take care of dinner for when M got home from work (This is when I discovered cooking with the help of my Grandmother, because we would go visit on the weekend or when we didn’t have school and she would teach me.
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Are you getting advice on when you are to do Plan B? If you are to do Plan B. I obviously don't know much about that at all, but I know the one thing that resonates is your heart and mind need to be in sync. Do you know what that means for you? Also people say that it's at a point when you are in danger of losing all your love for your wife, so please ask many questions on here for yourself.
I am set up to talk to Jennifer next Thursday with the intention of talking about getting ready for Plan B. If I am right, she will be moving in Feb, so I would have done a full Plan A for about two and a half months. I can go longer on plan A, but I want so see what Jennifer says about it. I know that the principal is that you run Plan A until you feel that you will loose all love for the Ws, but I can't help but think that go with a very dark Plan b on moving day will have a larger impact.
I really didn't sleep very well and I'm a little ticked off right now about something WH did. So first let me post that and see what anwers I get. Then I need to reread what you wrote and think about it before I respond.
I hope your morning goes good.
I got an email this morning from WH. He totally disregards my question to help me with frisbee, just wants to know if I got the fields for his practices and then proceeds to tell me WE got about 2 inches of snow last night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Back when this first happened he would say we and I would ask him to not talk to me about her as "we".
What is the best way to handle this? Should I overlook it, or remind him in a nice way I prefer him to just talk about himself, or what.
And how do I handle the fact that he ignores my request for help, but wants to know about himself. Which I get is totally WH behavior. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for the scoop. Sounds like you really have a wonderful M. What qualities do you most enjoy about her? What lessons did you learn?
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It's got a "I give" tone to it.
I don't believe this is a " I give" tone as much as I need to move on tone.
While it's true I am really tired of all of this insanity, I still have lots of fight in me. I just am not sure where that fight needs to be channeled to. You know how in wars you need to regroup and map out your next move. I'm kinda doing that.
But above all else and truly before my M is my relationship with G-d. I CAN ABSOLUTELY NO LONGER live in my will. I made a decision to turn my will and my life over to him. It's interesting, my weight has stopped coming off and my personal growth with regards to my AA stuff has stopped. G-ds will is for me to be healthy and become the woman he envisioned. I can't do that unless I keep working through the steps, making my amends and truly, truly putting G-d first.
But rule number one - my WH probably isn't coming home today, so I don't need to focus on him. I need to pray to G-d for focus on what I NEED to learn so I can continue losing weight, and becoming that Proverbs 31 person.
And I NEED to protect myself against this WW. He is toxic and hurtful and I am vulnerable to his craziness. I don't want that in my life and I don't think G-d wants that either.
So, my FAITH in my H still exists. I am fighting for my M, but I am keeping to my decision of letting go and leaving it to G-d. As many tell me, G-d loves my H more than me and is hurting over him.
He wants our M too, and is working hard over on that side to accomplish it. I HAVE to stay out of the way and listen for his guidance on when and how to act.
I got an email this morning from WH. He totally disregards my question to help me with frisbee, just wants to know if I got the fields for his practices and then proceeds to tell me WE got about 2 inches of snow last night.
Back when this first happened he would say we and I would ask him to not talk to me about her as "we".
What is the best way to handle this? Should I overlook it, or remind him in a nice way I prefer him to just talk about himself, or what.
Good Morning Queenie,
When I saw you were on-line a 5:30, I guessed you had not slept very well. I as for me I slept well but only a couple of hours more due to needing to readjust to a work schedule than anything else.
The morning is going pretty good. No major issues while I was away so I don't need to spend time fixing anything. That's a good thing because our copier lease is up and I need to do some shopping, that and look into any issues with our new software.
The "we" thing... Are you sure you’re not over thinking this one? This would be the kind of statement I would make to anybody. But the context of the e-mail might lead you otherwise.
The frisbee question is tougher. Will there be any face to face time regarding the field for the lacrosse team? Maybe remind him then. This is one I would suggest you see what Mimi and others have to say.
Remember we are here for you to vent as well. If you're ticked off, let it out.
Please try to have a good morning, I'll be checking in all day so if you need a little pick me up, let me know.
I would just completely IGNORE him until after you talk to Steve tomorrow.
Oh my gosh, we are on the same page. That's what I thought too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I got that magical call that school is 2 hours late because of weather. I have to go in at the normal time, but that's ok. I think I will go do some praying, and then get ready to walk to work this morning.
Mimi did tell me to let it go until I talk to Steve tomorrow, so I will. I don't really know if it's just a slip of words or calculated. But on the one hand, that is not the point. I feel like I am setting a boundary here of, do not talk to me about "your" life with her, because to me it doesn't exist. It's yuckiness, disgusting...etc...
I'm glad work is going good. Do you like your job? Are they supportive about what is going on in your life?
Sounds like you really have a wonderful M. What qualities do you most enjoy about her? What lessons did you learn?
Before I answer this, I’d like to tell you something. You have become like an IC for me. I say that because you ask questions that go outside the boundaries of the MB principals. You ask questions that require me to do some soul searching. Queenie, you have been as much a guide for me as the vets, but in a different way, and I wanted to let you know how much I appreciate it.
Now my M.... She is the most wonderful woman I know. The qualities I like most about her is her love of life and people. She is always happy and ready to lend a hand. She is a take charge and get it done type of personality. I learned that life goes on, no matter what. Her support during this time has reminded me of that. I learned that you will have bad days, but there will also be good ones, accept them as they come.
Do you like your job? Are they supportive about what is going on in your life?
I like where I'm working, but don't particularly care for what I'm doing right now. I'm a tech geek and that's where my heart resides. I'm glad I still get to play around in it some by being in charge of IT, but the whole operations, warehouse, shipping, receiving thing that I could let go. I'm doing this right now because the person I replaced was let go because of conflict with his personnel. If I have two qualities that have always served me well is my ability to get along with anybody, and that I'm one of those people that are not a specialist in any one thing but can do just about anything well. So they asked me to take on this role for a couple of years and see if it's something I could see myself doing for the rest of my life. Now that I’ve stopped lying to myself about what I want in life, I know that this will not be permanent. The company has been supportive, especially me former boss who is sort of a mentor to me. Our HR manager has been very supportive as well.
I can almost feel the glow inside of you right now. This could be a milestone in your path to growth. I'm so happy for you.
Before I answer this, I’d like to tell you something. You have become like an IC for me. I say that because you ask questions that go outside the boundaries of the MB principals. You ask questions that require me to do some soul searching.
Hmm.. I want to be very careful how I answer this. I am NO counselor. Please know that I also accept the compliment and in a way I am glad that I can do that for you. However, we need to make sure with the vets that if in fact I am doing something like that, it isn't wrong.
So, could someone please let me know if it is or is not ok to ask questions that one considers outside the boundaries of MB principles. I would never want to cross that line.
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I can almost feel the glow inside of you right now. This could be a milestone in your path to growth. I'm so happy for you.
For today, the glow lives and grows. I just need to stay in today and let tomorrow be in tomorrow.
You, I and so many others have our own personal recoverys to work on. Part of my recovery is getting my weight down to a level that I can be proud of. It's been two months since I have lost anything of real significance. It's interesting how it's corralated with being in Plan A. Don't get me wrong, I am fighting and standing for my M. BUT I have to remember what Mimi and others so often tell us.
If Plan A is about US becoming the best person we can be and truly focusing on ourselves, then I need to keep healing my body from all the years of mental, spiritual and physical abuse that I gave it. Since killing myself is no longer and option ( I love you Mimi), I have to completely surrender to G-d and let him create me into his vision of me. This is where my prayer took me today. So today is where I am in it.
However, we need to make sure with the vets that if in fact I am doing something like that, it isn't wrong.
So, could someone please let me know if it is or is not ok to ask questions that one considers outside the boundaries of MB principles. I would never want to cross that line.
The important thing is to not do anything that YOU consider to be WRONG and know that TMTS can take care of himself...
CONFIDENCE..SELF-CONFIDENCE...
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For today, the glow lives
Yep..one day at at time...
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I need to keep healing my body from all the years of mental, spiritual and physical abuse that I gave it.
You and I are on the SAME JOURNEY..I'm just a ways ahead of you is all...
I'm about to go out on for my DAILY exercise... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />..
Hmm.. I want to be very careful how I answer this. I am NO counselor. Please know that I also accept the compliment and in a way I am glad that I can do that for you. However, we need to make sure with the vets that if in fact I am doing something like that, it isn't wrong.
Hi Queenie, Sorry for implying that you are, but I think you got the point. I see the difference between some of the question you ask versus the regular MB principal questions is that these questions require that I reflect upon myself and be comfortable with the answers for my own self worth. I see these as a soft 2x4, which is good because you had noticed yourself that I need to work this aspect of myself. Please do not feel like I want you to psychoanalyze what I am going through, just know that I appreciate your input as it is very helpful. I would be surprised that any of the vets would have anything negative to say about the questions you ask, as they are genuine and caring ,but I could be wrong.
Now I need to get my list ready don't I... LOL (It's getting harder to find things now, when is it ok to have repeats?)
The important thing is to not do anything that YOU consider to be WRONG and know that TMTS can take care of himself...
CONFIDENCE..SELF-CONFIDENCE...
I'll keep the questions coming as they come up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
She is good isn't she and says things way more simple and to the point.
The list is for YOU.. You can repeat it as often as you need to until you completely believe them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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You and I are on the SAME JOURNEY..I'm just a ways ahead of you is all...
What miracles we are becoming each and every day then.
I'm not doing too bad, I little down but not completely distraught. I wish I would stop thinking about her for a little while.
As I was typing this the mediator called me. That doesn't help my mood at all. She talked to him on Saturday and he told her that he can come and see us at home, to just let him know what a good time would be. She talked to me about it on Saturday, and I told her that I was going to be home at my regular time and to set it up with him for what time and day suited her schedule. I could tell that she wanted me to take the lead on this, so I told her that it was up to her to set this up as she is the one wanting this separation. As far as I'm concerned the longer she takes the better for me to work the plan. I pray that as this is getting closer to reality she is having second thought about it, but my rational side is telling me that it's a done deal in her head.
Ok, I take my first line back... I was doing ok until that call. That just gave me an empty feeling.
Remember, it's ok to feel the feeling. Remember, the feelings won't kill us, it's what we do with them that will.
And then there is This Too Shall Pass.
None of them really matter when you are going through the feeling at the time. And I HATE when someone says it takes TIME.
I am finding that just knowing that people on here are walking through it with me and care and hurt for me helps me the most. We still have to feel the pain and walk through it, because we are learning something about ourselves.
This is so NOT easy and you have every right to every feeling that you are experiencing. Every right.
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I wish I would stop thinking about her for a little while.
Try asking G-d to take care of her for a little while so you can rest your mind and heart. Ask him to help you. Not that I am the greatest person to give advice on this at all, but one suggestion was to put WH's name on a piece of paper and putting it in a G-d box.
Remember G-d is hurting for her as much if not more than you and wants her to seek him. So, by praying for her and giving her to him, you are helping G-d out. And it's also showing G-d that you are wanting to be dependent on G-d which is what HE WANTS.
Is this making sense at all? How's that working for you.
Yes you are making sense. I did say a prayer after lunch for you, lala/W2s, and serenity, N2F, DM and our WSs. I also ask for a special blessing for those who are helping us. Then I asked him to give me the strength to keep going.
It's just the bottom end of the coaster that's all, and having all of you here is keeping me sane.
My M told me the first thing I need to do with my bible is to bring it with me to a priest. Go to confession then ask him to perform a blessing on my bible.
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How is your day going?
Up and down I guess. I was ok this morning, the call from the mediator brought me down, then you guys got me back up, and getting my own bible was the icing. I feel pretty good right now.
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What 5 things do you like about yourself?
1- I like that I am loyal. 2- I like that I have a good demeanor 3- I like my personality 4- I like that I am likable 5- I like that I can relate with the teens in my life.
Ok, so these are the ones I want to start with, and as I feel good about them I replace them with something new.
I got an email this morning from WH. He totally disregards my question to help me with frisbee, just wants to know if I got the fields for his practices and then proceeds to tell me WE got about 2 inches of snow last night.
Back when this first happened he would say we and I would ask him to not talk to me about her as "we".
What is the best way to handle this? Should I overlook it, or remind him in a nice way I prefer him to just talk about himself, or what.
Hey Queenie!
Oh I laughed when I read this in your thread. My WH has started the same "we" crap too - but with my MIL. He did it to her a couple of times and she got so p-ssed off with him for flaunting the A in her face, that she told him off in no uncertain terms the day after Christmas that there was no WE that included OW as far as she was concerned.
Not surprsingly, WH has not spoken to his mother since then... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Now I'm not advising you to tell your WH off, but when they say the waywards read the handbook there's gotta be something to it. LOL!!!
You sound strong today. I'm glad. I'm thinking of you and lifting you up in prayer to God.
Ok, this is scary, I even thought to myself to ask that. I would NEVER had known that before MB.
Smartie,
Sometimes I practice to myself how I would love to tell him off. But then I remember how much I love him and how sick he is and it just doesn't seem worth the energy. Not to mention he wouldn't care and he certainly wouldn't hear it.
I was stronger much earlier. I am shaking my head, Mimi. I am happy I have my appt with Steve tomorrow at 4:00 am....And we are supposed to have snow and be delayed 2 hours again. I hope so.
If there was ever a book to destroy, that WW handbook would be the highest on my list. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ok, this is scary, I even thought to myself to ask that. I would NEVER had known that before MB.
I was the same until a couple of days ago. It's a good thing I mentioned it before going out to get one. Next time I'm close to one of the big book stores I will look for the NIV as it seems to be the best option between both translation types.
Mark is a great man; his guidance towards the rediscovery of my faith is invaluable. My ODD asked me why I was reading the bible, and I told her that I need to put faith to help her M, what better place to put your faith than G-d. So I told her a little about some of the passages that I was reading, and she sat on my bed with me as I read psalm 102 and Chapter 1 of Joshua to her. It was a special moment.
Hey TMTS.. congratulations on picking up the best manual on living life you'll ever have.
I'll pass along some of the passages that keep popping up for me.
I could be misreading here but it appears your family is Catholic? I would strongly suggest as a cornerstone of your daily devotionals to go to the EWTN website (or other Catholic website) and read the daily devotionals/mass readings.
Also, my mom got me a daily prayer book with a focus on praying scripture. I'll pass along the title and author when I get home, it's been wonderful.
Not to threadjack SG's thread for TMTS entirely, but I did see you both talking about 'giving to God' your spouses. I've talked with SG extensively in the past about this.. and that by being still we can stay out of God's way as He works on our spouses. Now for as much as she and I have talked about it.. this weekend I finally did it. I finally had that conversation with God and truly gave WW to him, and started very seriously my work on 'forgiving' Wonderboy.. That's going to be a very difficult part of this walk.. but I need to be able to forgive him to engage in my own forgiveness that I need from God.
Still working, still praying for you guys.. glad to see SG is still making progress. Remember Skins.. the pebbles in the stream.. little by little you build them up under the surface until they break through one day. No expectations.. change is a slow process. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Keep your chin up Queenie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
One of the hardest things to do when we try to give things to God is actually letting Him have them. We approach His throne with this giant sack of troubles strapped to our back, spread them all out before Him and ask for Him to take them away.
But as He starts to reach for them and begins working to remove them from our lives, we wrestle them from His hands, throw them back into the sack, hoist it to our shoulders and trudge away mumbling about why we are so burdened...
When we take things to God, we have to stop asking for His help and simply lay them before Him and say "here ya go..." and then walk away empty handed. Until we leave our problems with Him rather than carry them away with us, we have not really given them over to Him at all...
When we take things to God, we have to stop asking for His help and simply lay them before Him and say "here ya go..." and then walk away empty handed.
When we take things to God, we have to stop asking for His help and simply lay them before Him and say "here ya go..." and then walk away empty handed. Until we leave our problems with Him rather than carry them away with us, we have not really given them over to Him at all...
If you don't ask him for help, what do you do? Do you stop asking or praying and just know it's being taken care of. How do I move forward?
This is truly a hard day for me. My session with Steve didn't go nearly as well as I had hoped. Because thanks to everyone here, especially the veterans I have been doing exactly the right things and there really is no other place to go but into Plan B pretty much as soon as the LSA is in place.
My WH is completely lost, Steve's words were he is a typical WW but to the extreme. I asked him if there was any hope. What he said was to go into Plan B as though my WH is going to spend the rest of his life with her. And then he asked me what I would be doing differently, knowing that's the case. My answer was nothing. Because when everything is said and done I have to walk away from this knowing I did everything I could.
This hurts and my hope is dimmed considerably. Even though I already knew what he was going to say, it's still the reality being smacked in my face. I don't know if I am strong enough to find joy in life right now.
Joe Gibbs retired today and I am totally saddened because he was such a light in my life. I'm truly down today. Not going to hurt myself (I promised Mimi), but just sad and lost.
So Mark, James, anyone else, some scriptures or words of encouragement would be so appreciated.
Oh please..... I really need to find some focus on how to get through this. So, let's see what I know. What I know is that I can still Plan A when I get the chance, Steve said I have reached the point of diminished returns. BUT, I need to grasp what I said up above, I need to truly let G-d and give my H to G-d. So, please help me truly understand what this looks like. If I do that, then I don't need to ask for help, how do I live life then?
When we take things to God, we have to stop asking for His help and simply lay them before Him and say "here ya go..." and then walk away empty handed. Until we leave our problems with Him rather than carry them away with us, we have not really given them over to Him at all...
If you don't ask him for help, what do you do? Do you stop asking or praying and just know it's being taken care of. How do I move forward?
He KNOWS your heart. He KNOWS your need. He KNOWS your pain. You've asked Him for help, but have you really let go of your WH? Part of that IS imagining your life without him and KNOWING in your KNOWER that G-d has only the best in store for you-- regardless of whether WH returns. You can't make it a condition... Okay G-d, I KNOW you've answered my prayer if WH comes home.
What is it you've been praying for? To be the woman of G-d that G-d intended? How do you know what that looks like?
Don't get so hung up on whether or not we should 'ask for help'.
Certainly if we feel like we need help, God -wants- us to come to Him to receive it.
I think the point Mark was trying to make is that we often say we are giving our problems to God, but yet we hang on so tightly to them, that we get in the way and never -really- let God have the problem to work on.. we're our own hurdle. Our -need- to control or feel like we have control in a situation prevents us from turning over that control, or the illusion of control to God.
Honestly, in our situations I believe it is the -true- realization that we truly are powerless to overtake our waywards and -make- them do the right thing. God wants us to live in the blessings of what He gives us today, and to be thankful for them. Tomorrow will come tomorrow, we should live in, and be thankful for what we have today.
He KNOWS your heart. He KNOWS your need. He KNOWS your pain. You've asked Him for help, but have you really let go of your WH? Part of that IS imagining your life without him and KNOWING in your KNOWER that G-d has only the best in store for you-- regardless of whether WH returns. You can't make it a condition... Okay G-d, I KNOW you've answered my prayer if WH comes home.
I think this weekend was movement towards that. For the first time I spoke to my sponsor that I can feel a little spark that I can imagine my life without him and I would be ok. I just need to exercise this muscle somehow.
I won't lie, I don't want to do this. But I can begin to see my life without him. And you are right, I need to just simply trust. But I'm scared, PM. I so scared.
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What is it you've been praying for? To be the woman of G-d that G-d intended? How do you know what that looks like?
I have been praying for him to soften my WH heart and bring him home, praying to become the woman he has envisioned me to be.
I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what that looks like. And that's what scares me. There is even a part of me that knows that the longer time moves forward and I leaving my H behind, I will be fine and life goes on and I won't want him back one day. And that is a huge part of fear, that I really will become everything G-d wants for me and it won't include him.
God wants us to live in the blessings of what He gives us today, and to be thankful for them.
And if I am truly honest, there is no way I can not be grateful for all the blessings he has given me from my relationship with him, to my children, to my health spiritually and mentally and physically, to my relationships on here with all of you.
My life personally is so much better off than it was before all this. There is NO WAY I can deny that.
thanks Jamesus. I have gained so much more but the one thing I have lost hurts to the core. I guess if I could just know for sure that this was the plan all along and there was NOTHING I did or could have done to stop this. His plan for me all along was to experience this and live life. Or it's because I just blew it and these are the consequences. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We'll help you through this. I can't image right now what your going through. Keep in mind that he may be lost, but we are not and we DO care about you!
We'll help you through this. I can't image right now what your going through. Keep in mind that he may be lost, but we are not and we DO care about you!
And I am so grateful to G-d for bringing me to this place and having you become a part of my life. Forever in my life. You are the blessing in this. And learning from you is the blessings.
Thank you for being here.
I'll go check it now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I guess if I could just know for sure that this was the plan all along and there was NOTHING I did or could have done to stop this.
Well.. if we're not dwelling on the past, and we're not preoccupied with the future. If we're living TODAY as God tells us to. What does any of the above matter? You are in the situation that you are in. You are walking closer with God than you ever have before. Are YOU where God wants YOU to be? If not, your plan A is to get as close to there as you can.. not worry about someone elses decisions and baggage.
In summary: If you're where God wants YOU to be, then it was the plan all along. If you're not, -your- plan ought to be to get there.
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His plan for me all along was to experience this and live life. Or it's because I just blew it and these are the consequences.
I'm sure God did not devise a scheme to get your husband to run around on you. God doesn't make those decisions for people. God can influence people, but ultimately it is -their- decision whether or not they do what God tells them to. It's their decision to face the consequences of disobedience to God. We do not know what God's plan is for our lives, and we won't know until it is revealed to us in the daily living of it.
I am concerned though that while making personal changes that you feel are important for -you- to make you who you believe God wants you to be, or even who -you- want you to be.. I think you're blaming yourself entirely too much for your circumstances. Sure, you're partly responsible for the state of the marriage before he went outside of it, but the choice to have an affair is 0% yours and 100% his. He had -MANY- options to resolve the problems in the marriage. This choice resolves none of the problems, and creates myriad more issues. But yet it's the choice HE MADE.
Did he give you a vote? Did he POJA his affair with you? I doubt it.. so stop blaming yourself for the 1 problem that is destroying your marriage. Everything else you can work on when/if he gets his head out of it's rectal hiding place.
Perhaps this will help you. I spoke to my priest and he helped me quite a bit. He gave me 2 prayers, the first is called the hedge prayer and it was posted under the 'just found out 'thread , (I believe the first post about useful posts.) The second was a prayer under St. Faustina, this prayer was to help me have faith in Jesus, to trust him in all of this and truly ask for mercy. Here's a link to at least get you some info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_mercy
God cares for each one of us individually. He cares about you, but He also cares about your WH. He does not want to see him ruin his life, your life and the lives of your children. Know that and know that God does want your H to return to you.
But also know that God does not "force" His will upon us. If He did, loving Him would be simply a line of code in a program and would have no meaning. He wants us to want to follow Him and love Him.
When Joseph was sold by his brothers into slavery, it resulted in all of Israel becoming slaves as well. They intended it for evil and for generations, it resulted in evil.
But it also resulted in Moses leading the captives to freedom and Joshua leading them into the land promised to Abraham. It also resulted in the law, the prophets, the writings and poetry...It resulted in miracles on Mt Carmel and the restoration of life to the widow's son. It resulted in David becoming king and also in his sinning with Bathsheba, but in the restoration of his relationship with God as well.
In the New Testament we are told that God works all things for the good of those that love him. And this is just more of what he tells us in Jeremiah 29:11 and Joshua chapter 1..."As I was with Moses, so I will be with you...Be strong and courageous...do not be afraid...."
The God of all the universe, He who made the stars and put them into place is concerned with you and me and wants what is best for us. He wants us to be happy, but He wants us to be right with Him above all else, because ultimately, what happens in eternity is more important than what happens in the blink of an eye that is our life.
So faith becomes knowing that God will not allow anything to happen that ultimately is not in our best interest; even when that is not what we want.
Prayer is as much about changing what he ask for as it is about trying to get God to give us what we want. And yet we are told to keep asking until we get what we seek. Just as Jacob refused to let go until he was blessed by God, we need to ask until we receive...
But until God answers us, whether that answer is "yes," "no," or "wait," we must go forward as if He is taking care of it, for we can know that He is.
In the NT, Paul is afflicted with an unknown to us malady or problem in his life. He asked specifically that God remove it from his life several times and ultimately God's answer was..."My grace is sufficient for you."
The point I am making is that if God wants what is best for us and He is ultimately in charge and He is actively taking not only an interest in our lives but directing us as well, then how can we not just be in awe and let Him do His thing?
And what He is always willing to give us when we are in need or in distress is His comfort. But the word comfort itself comes from two words. The first means "with" or "from a place or position of" and the second is the word from which we get the words fort, fortress, fortification and the musical term "forte." And the word "forte" means "power" or "strength." So God's comfort is Him giving us His strength to overcome our fears, failures and foibles so that we do not have to rely on our own strength to get through, since before Him, we all are helpless and lowly.
Hope the topic hasn't passed me by as this has taken me about an hour or more to write due to being at work.
I figured that's what Steve might say 'cause of your WH's responses to your requests to meet.
We actually didn't even talk about that. It was purely going on the fact that he has completely compartmentalized his life and stopped being a father and husband completely.
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FAITH, Queenie..that's what you need to read up on and rely on...not only that..FAITH AND TRUST...
I know. And I will. I'll pray for strength in this.
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This is your WH's LOSS..not YOURS...
We need lots of work to do in this area. Because I don't believe this. I feel like I am the BOG LOSER. I will work on this.
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And if he does not , he has LOSS a PRECIOUS, PRECIOUS GEM
I will work on this as well. This needs to become my focus. Believing that I am a precious gem.
Thank you Lino, I will check that out.
I hope you all know how special you all are to me.
So faith becomes knowing that God will not allow anything to happen that ultimately is not in our best interest; even when that is not what we want.
I actually KNOW this. Because I know how my life has changed for the better and who I am becoming.
When I am completely honest with all the has gone on, personally I am a much better person. I am physically, for the most part - mentally, and spiritually better. I no longer live in chaos or anger. The craziness is gone.
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The point I am making is that if God wants what is best for us and He is ultimately in charge and He is actively taking not only an interest in our lives but directing us as well, then how can we not just be in awe and let Him do His thing?
In awe I am.
The other piece of this is, right now the WH is a sick person who was destroying my spirit - and had been for many years. I certainly was involved in this process and became someone else to survive, and without a doubt based on this notion, that's why my H no longer is in my life.
I just believed that LOVE would conquer all and it was my job to be his wife, no matter what. I have learned so much, that it wasn't my job to make him happy, but all I EVER WANTED was to love him and thought that was making him happy. It wasn't. I'm not completely clear of the difference but there is.
Yep..I agree with Mark 1000%..I wholeheartedly share his viewpoints and beliefs..and that's what carried me through..and carries me through to this day with the struggles that I continue to face in life..
Can you please help me focus a little. I am still in Plan A until the LSA and then Plan B.
Help me understand what I need to keep moving forward. I understand there is nothing that I can do for my WH, but Plan A is about me and I need to finish this my way, right?
Okie dokie, when you have time any suggestions would be awesome. Thanks and have a great day.
Not really on any suggestions.
He was more into getting me into Plan B asap.
He told me I was doing a very good one especially because these really are changes inside of me.
I just feel like I WANT to keep doing what I can up until I am done. Does that make sense.
When you knew that you needed to go into Plan B, did you feel deflated? I feel like I have lost the battle of my life and I really never had shot, and I feel cheated. Does that make sense?
What could I do to keep processing what I am feeling?
I feel like I have lost the battle of my life and I really never had shot, and I feel cheated.
Hi Queenie, I wish there was some way to erase the pain your feeling. I completely understand where you are coming from with this. (Mark would probably say this is my mantra) The battle may be close to an end, but the war still rages. And so long as your heart still has that fire the war continues.
I know this doesn't help but know that we are here for you to lean on.
Be good to yourself. I'll be back on in a little while, going home now.
I am simply exhausted and drained. Been a very emotional day.
I have to go to my 2nd job tonight and I have been up since 4am. I also woke up every hour on the hour so I wouldn't miss the appt. so that is adding to my exhaustion.
I need time to process everything that happened with Steve from the call. I have to take responsibility and realized I didn't utilize the time as well as I could have and want to examine what pieces might be missing for me.
Then I need to read again what Mark said and pray to G-d for guidance.
Ok.. as promised, my current devotional bookmarks:
Psalm 142
Malachi 2:10-17
Sirach 26: 1-3, 15-18, 19-24
1 Corinthians 5:4
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 7:1-4
Ephesians 5
Last but hardly least, the entire book of Hosea.
That's what's in -my- devotional for the week.. I'll keep updating if folks would like me to. I can even take it to my own thread if SG doesn't want me to threadjack.. I just promised TMTS I'd have something up here for him.
What time do you work at? I guess there's no time for a nap with the kids around?
As for me I'm doing ok, except for a couple of friends that I'm worried about... Lala sounds better, but the other one is hurting pretty bad right now. I wish there was more I cold do to help, but for now I'll work on the prayers suggested below.
(The Lowes thing fell apart... there closed at 6... Idiot)
Hang in there. It usually takes Plan B to bring them back home, so don't worry.
I couldn't sleep last night either. That hasn't happened in a long time. But it is from excitement. My mom is coming to visit next week and there is LOTS to do.
I could have sworn I already typed this out and posted it, but it's nowhere to be found. I even did a search on my own user name and can't find it, so I guess I'll post it again and if it turns up twice, well then I'm just a moron and you can ignore me.
SG,
This from Pat Gibbs, wife of Joe Gibbs. She had cancer that had to have an operation to remove it that left her face partially paralyzed.
"I belong to God. And I believe he allows things to come into our lives for a reason. Just because I don't know the reason doesn't mean that there isn't one."
Skinsgal & TMTS & Not2Fun.... read the first message in the thread "betrayed spouses... be still" by ARK!! It's great!!! So wish I had read it half an hour ago, oh well.
Regular job is 7:40 - 4:10. Then I drive 45 - 1 hour for second job and put in about 3 hours. That's the boss that gives me the awesome bonuses.
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wish there was more I cold do to help, but for now I'll work on the prayers suggested below.
Sometimes walking through our journey will one day be all the help someone needs because we will have gained insight, experience and battle scars.
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(The Lowes thing fell apart... there closed at 6... Idiot)
Nope, no self pitying talk. It's just information that you didn't know to look for and now you do. So where else can you think to go to accomplish the same goal. I just spent 2 hours on the phone with my old sponsor. She is brutal on me. She cares more about my life than my feelings. Anyways, she really drove home hard the notion of self-pitying and selfishness. She reminded me that the universe is unfolding exactly as it should be in spite of whether I like it or not.
What unfolded with me today is a few items. Maybe others can relate. I somehow have adopted the mindset that one mistake, one perfect thing in Plan A will make or break the situation. That's a lie. It's the ripple effect of my truly becoming who G-d intended for me. Mimi drives this home to me all the time. Plan A is about me, about the changes I always wanted to make to become the best person I can be. I have to keep repeating to myself, how it affects or doesn't effect WH isn't my deal. My deal is to serve G-d.
As my sponsor was talking and she was driving home the self pitying stuff it dawned on me that I still hold onto that victim crap of being the one who blew this marriage all by myself. I didn't. I made huge mistakes and take responsibility for them. It's time I put down the club because the club is just another way of feeling sorry for myself and that's deadly to an alcoholic. That's what will keep me in my disease and the insanity of what my mind can create. So I need to accept my humaness and give myself a break that I am not that person anymore and in my new relationship with whomever I wouldn't do those same things.
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Hang in there. It usually takes Plan B to bring them back home, so don't worry.
You are right of course, not to mention it was just my self-pitying. This was really just one more battle that I needed to work through, regroup. It's not as if I didn't know things looked bleak and I was heading into Plan B. I mean really, even I can't lie to myself for that long.
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I couldn't sleep last night either. That hasn't happened in a long time. But it is from excitement. My mom is coming to visit next week and there is LOTS to do.
What is your mom like, are you very close? What are you doing with her?
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This from Pat Gibbs, wife of Joe Gibbs. She had cancer that had to have an operation to remove it that left her face partially paralyzed.
"I belong to God. And I believe he allows things to come into our lives for a reason. Just because I don't know the reason doesn't mean that there isn't one."
If you EVER have any DOUBT how to reach me with a POINT, put Joe Gibbs name near it. I am NOT kidding when I say I strive in my life to become the person he is. Amazing strength, faith, walk with G-d, family commitment, values, morals, and is forever a Redskin. Even I can't lie to myself on this one - I have these qualities too, maybe not as deep or as strong, but that's today. Who knows what tomorrow brings.
Thanks Serenity, I actually read it last night. Totally where I need to be for G-d and that shall be what Plan B allows me to be.
For all my special friends, in talking with my sponsor it really became OBVIOUS when I am acting weak, doubting I can do this or that, I am in my disease and need to be slapped out of it. First and foremost, I am an addict/alcoholic and I am not allowed the luxury of self pitying or selfishness because they are show stoppers to me becoming happy, joyous and free. So, may I please ask that when you notice that "sick" behavior, please care more about my life than my feelings and let me have it. It's also not very becoming to G-d. He has more FAITH in me that being a victim of what he needs me to walk through and learn.
Hey Serenity, you have read it now and look how it has stuck with you, so GOOD job.
Once I was able to come out of my self-pitying fog, I realized that you had sent me an email to home. First, I want to thank you for that. A while back, Jamesus and I were emailing back and forth to each other. Mimi and someone else put it out there that they didn't think it was a good idea. At the time I didn't really understand it, but you know, I think I get it. You, I and everyone else on here as so vulnerable and hurting and it's natural to want to reach out and help each other.
But the reason we are here is because our spouses betrayed us, and I think for the most part they didn't start out that way it just got to that point with small decisions along the way. Where I know that you and I and anyone else would not want to hurt each other, emailing back and forth probably allows for an opportunity that just should not be an option. I don't know if I am saying this right. Anyways, I really want you to know I appreciate you emailing, but probably for our safety, and integrity we need to keep to this forum of talking to each other.
I think you explained it beautifully. You are right, and to that point we are probably more venerable than what our WWs were at the time. So to decide right now that we will not communicate in that way is not only right but necessary. Like Dr. H says we are all wired in such a way that it can happen to anybody. Good thing we are here because we would not have known this. Thanks for the reminder. Too bad our WSs didn’t know about MB a couple of years ago.
How are you doing today? You got more sleep I hope?
I am WAY better today. I was totally exhausted and drained, not a good thing for an alcoholic for sure.
My old sponsor spent about 2 hours with me last night on the phone and served me up multiple 2 x 4s about my disease as an alcoholic/addict. I HAVE to begin to truly grasp when my disease is working and stop it.
How are you doing? Did you read what I wrote about Lowes... Thank you for understanding about the emailing. Actually it's not about our WS's knowing about MB earlier. It's about us knowing about it, because we had a part in the disintegration of our M, and we can't control them, we can only control ourselves.
Our M might have ended up in the same place, won't really ever know that, but we would have had skills to change how we were handling things. See the difference?
Our M might have ended up in the same place, won't really ever know that, but we would have had skills to change how we were handling things. See the difference?
You're getting pretty good at this. Yes I understand what you're saying.
The Lowes thing wasn’t really a bad thing. She wasn't feeling really well so it gave me a chance to take care of her, and now we set it up that we're going on Saturday instead. So now we'll have much more time to spend there together. All is good on that front.
Have a look at my thread when you get a chance, she gave me a fog babble that just set me off inside, but I handled it nice and cool.
I'm a little tired myself today, haven't slept well in the last 2-3 days. Last night I was sleeping just fine until a wind storm stated up and just about shook the house apart. Then I couln'd get back to sleep. So I'm on heavy doses of coffee today.
I have to work VERY HARD at not letting my stinkin thinkin take over. This will be the DEATH of me if I am NOT careful.
I just need to be still. I am going to visit him tomorrow probably and bring him a gift. He hasn't responded to the phone call I left him regarding the field usage. I am not going to call him again on that subject.
He emailed my YS after about a month, YS emailed him back.
But he pretty much has just abandoned us. I need to get my papers to the lawyer and get into Plan B. My recovery is going to depend on it I think.
I would like to go somewhere alone with him or have him come to my place, but that hasn't happened and I am not going to force it.
I haven't had a chance to check your thread, what is happening with you?
I'm alright, did a little venting about my WWs fog babble incident last night. As you'll see in the titla change, she's talking a good game but has yet to kick the ball.
And it's actually a pretty quiet day at work. I was going to go to an AA meeting, but my friend called and asked me to go to a convention planning meeting. I was to be the chairperson of this, something I worked my whole volunteer career for this position and when all this blew up, I gave it up. I haven't been to a meeting since. My friend needs a ride so I am going.
But first I have a grad nite meeting with the chair person to calm her down from freaking out on things and then I hope to have time to go cook dinner for my boys.
I have to admit, as strong as I feel, I'm a little disconnected right now, so Mimi, I am shaking my head.
I should also probably start working on my PBL? Can I take what others wrote and conform it to what I want to say. The intermediary person, should this person be someone who is neutral to what is going on or want to kill him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I hadn't thought about the goodbye package, but that is a great idea. I have the perfect picture of him and me on our cruise, which I set up on top of the Torah and our wedding rings together. I might even finish that pretty applique quilt I was working on for our anniversary last year and never completed. What do you think?
Good idea on the family pictures. I'll have to put some thought into this. I probably have a couple of weeks left for Plan Aing.
So, can we take a little look at what I haven't accomplished yet and try and get those EN's take care of.
Thank you for the compliment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am learning to accept those.
Right now the only thing I like about myself is that I'm still breathing. I read this post where the BH got an emial from his WW, and it could have been writen by my WW word for word. That just brought me down. (I know, insert 2x4, stop the hopless despair routine). My head can take that but my heart feels like it's tearing a little more.
Remember, who she IS isn't your spouse. THIS WW is YUCKY, GROSS, SELFISH, SELF-CENTERED AND SICK.
I don't think you want her to love you. You want your W to love you and she doesn't exist right now.
I am not going to hit you with a 2 x 4 because I completely understand this. What I can do is offer what I do when this happens or what I have find.
1. Give her to G-d. 2. Post to someone for a good scripture passage - those always make me feel better. 3. Realize that you CAN'T CONTROL WHO OR WHAT SHE DOES. I certainly would if I could, but we can't. 4. Keep working on yourself because you are the only one you can control. 5. Remember you are not alone. 6. You don't know what G-d is doing inside of her or on her side of the street. 7. Ask G-d what to direct you to what HE wants you to do, since you are becoming the very best that he wants you to be. 8. Remember she is SICK 9. Nothing is hopeless if you LET G-d do what he DOES which is work in THEIR LIFE. He is hurting more than us for the way they are living. 10. G-d loves you more than they ever could and wants you to be happy, joyous and free.
And PRAY.....Pray......
I told a friend of mine last night, get yourself a box (call it your G-d box). Everytime you feel this or some similar emotion, put her name down on it and put it in the box. They you are physically giving her to G-d.
Remember what Mark said about once you give her away you don't have to keep asking, because he knows what is in your heart. And he is working as hard as he can but in his time.
Also ask G-d what he is wanting you to learn when you get to this point. And then be still......
Thanks for stopping by my thread. I'm doing great. Trying to keep busy. I've tried to keep up with your thread, and it sounds like Plan B is not far off for you.
WH won't sign LSA??? Mine won't. Doesn't want to be M but won't sign to not be either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Doesn't make sense.
I've decided to designate each month with some sort of theme. January is my "entertainment" month. So..last night I had 3 people over for dinner. Two were actually WH's distant cousins. They have stood by me and think he's a schmuck. We had a nice time. Planning another for the week after next for the all of the other friends and customers of my business who were so supportive of me through this.
Haven't decided what theme I will give February yet (thinking about "travel"). If you'd like to join me in my Theme-o-rama, perhaps we could both take our minds off of Plan B!!!! We could designate a quilt month since we both quilt. I've been wanting to do one of those "quillows" so maybe this is a good time....
Keep going Mimi....I'm getting into this now! I'm lovin' the idea of Goddess month. Hair, make-up, shopping, new clothes, pampering, more shopping, nice dinners out, and did I mention shopping?
Thanks for your kind words, between that a good 2x4 thumping by bigKahunna I've snapped out of it.
1- I like that when I get down on myself I can snap out of it pretty quickly. 2- I like that I've put my faith back in G-d's hands. 3- I like that I can better control my reactions and get any negative thoughts out here. 4- I like that I can still love my W even after all the pain. 5- I like that I'm still here for those I love.
Just checking in. I've been trying to keep up at work when I get a chance, but it's two weeks until the end of a semester and I started another class at Western tonight.
I love the idea of the God box. Great idea!
Just wanted you to know I am around-even if I don't get much time to post.
WH has no clue about LSA yet. Haven't figured out how I am going to enlighten him.
I'm in on the Theme-O-Rama month. I like the quilt idea. I LOVE the GODDESS month - Mimi you are the BEST. What about pamering or spa month. What about a book club month.
Hey Smartie, I miss you and got your message, but it was too late. I will talk to you on Saturday.
Hey TMTS, I'm glad BK got to you and I see your qualities. They are awesome and G-d given.
Hi JT, I got your phone message tonight. I really appreciate the calls and look forward to talking to you over the weekend.
What about getting together MLK weekend one day?
I have that sisterhood function this weekend. I went to a committee mtg tonight. It was very strange to be around those women after all this time. I felt so uncomfortable and out of place. I'm sure it's not them, but my stuff. Anyways, there are two workshops that I was toying with facilitating. One was Single AGain - OY VEY and the other one - Women of Reform Judaism passed a vote of support on handling addictions from punitive to treatment.
What do you all think? No One really understands what someone goes through until they have walked it, and yet I wonder if we all take it that hard or it's just those of us stricken with the Affair issue. Looking for input on this one.
Ok, so he finally contacted me by email. Not a phone call and I actually don't believe he would have by email if he didn't finally want that camera back. Email says,
BS, How about 10:00 on Sundays. I need my camera for the weekend. How can we make that happen?
WS
So - can you help me figure out how I can make that happen? I wish I could understand what was so important to him about that being "his" camera, never about how the kids are or anything of substance.
I woke up this morning in a weaker frame of mind. I really worked on prayer and thought I had worked through it. It's amazing how I react so weird when he contacts me. It also astounds me, though I have no clue why after all this time, how he is just so selfish and non caring about anyone but himself or what he wants.
Although, he did use my full name written out like I asked him to. That surprised me. I wonder why? He doesn't ever do what I ask him to anymore.
Here are some really cool words of wisdom from the mass readings that Jamesus sent me to.
Anxiety is the greatest evil that can befall a soul, except sin. God commands you to pray, but He forbids you to worry. -- St. Francis de Sales
The affairs of God are accomplished little by little and almost imperceptibly. The Spirit of God is neither violent nor hasty. He does all things in His time. -- St. Vincent de Paul
You don't love in your enemies what they are, but what you would have them become by your prayers. -- St. Augustine
I miss you guys...I'm restless and want to play. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hey Skins, Hang in there. I really think that your Plan B will be good for you and give you some peace. I think you're long overdue.
Can't stay on too long right now, but let's designate February as Goddess month. I think we both need a little pampering. We'll do one thing special for ourselves every week. I'll come up with a schedule and let you know what it is. I'll finish out my entertainment month and start working on it.
Hey Skins, Hang in there. I really think that your Plan B will be good for you and give you some peace. I think you're long overdue.
Can't stay on too long right now, but let's designate February as Goddess month. I think we both need a little pampering. We'll do one thing special for ourselves every week. I'll come up with a schedule and let you know what it is. I'll finish out my entertainment month and start working on it.
WE both need to concentrate on US and NOT WH's.
I am so GAME for this. I can't wait to see the schedule.
I think you are right. I have kinda been in a Plan A since D-day and I am truly tired and drained. Have a great day and thank you.
Hi JT,
I imagine you are hard at work and having a great day?
I miss you. Did you get my note about MLK weekend and doing someting at Bellevue Square.
I love those little quotes from the Saints or past Popes that they have on that site.. the ones for January are pretty intense.
BTW.. have you also been listening to the radio program we get links to in our daily devotional email? I've actually found the messages to be a little helpful, even if that lady's voice does get on my nerves after a while... I've gotten used to it, and really admire their ministry and their devotion to healing marriages through God.
I'm not quite sold on you being ready for Plan B yet.. but go with the experts, Steve, and the vets here.. I'm honestly starting to think Plan B isn't for me at all, and that the WW would see it as me abandoning the fight... I'll cross that bridge when it comes.. probably the day of the final D.
Are you still getting your emails? The link is in there every day towards the bottom. If you're having trouble I'll email it to you so long as Mimi won't brain me for it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
About your Plan B.. I say it because I'm not in your shoes, I see you still clinging to the ideal of WH.. rather than truly moving into Plan B with all your ammo and rations together to weather out the storm, and not feel like you have to give in and talk to him when he starts acting like an 8 year old not getting his way. JMHO.. I'm sure the folks here, particularly Mimi and any continued consulting with Steve will keep you firmly planted.
As for -my- Plan B.. I really think that WW will look at Plan B as me giving up on her, and feed her entitlement, and alleviate a lot of her guilt... one of her many claims is that I walked out on the marriage long before she did.. she just literally walked out... If I do go to Plan B it's going to have to be something I carefully address in my PBL.
No I haven't really talked much about my Plan B musings on my thread.. or to anyone really.. just been working them out myself for the most part. Consensus on the thread though whenever Plan B is mentioned is that it needs to wait until DS' custody is settled.
rather than truly moving into Plan B with all your ammo and rations together to weather out the storm, and not feel like you have to give in and talk to him when he starts acting like an 8 year old not getting his way.
You know, that might have been true once, but not now. Lately I haven't been thinking so much about him, it's becoming increasingly harder to think of Plan A things to do. I feel more at peace when I don't need to think about him or what he is up to. I don't like the drama his life is.
Yes, I miss him horribly, but I miss my H. This WH is ucky.....
As for the long haul. I think once my financial situation is set and I have my intermediary in place and I completely understand what my purpose in Plan B is, then I can do it and not look back. I am not doing it because I want to, but maybe for my sanity or hope that it will one day see him come home. I won't lie about why I am doing it and be honest that maybe I really don't want to, but what other choices do I have.
The insanity is killing me, the disrespect and hurtful actions are dispicable and I am learning that it's not ok for him to treat me that way. I can't control him to stop it, I can only take him out of my life to make it stop.
Can someone tell me if I am completely wrong in this thinking or where I need to adjust my thinking?
I'll check for the link. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I was actually planning to do that very thing tomorrow morning, very early and bring him something like either breakfast, mocha or CD's.
I was just wondering if there was some other idea.
I don't want the camera. He gave it back to me when he couldn't make the game his children were at because he had to play soccer and then get firewood. I am so ready to be done with this camera, however I was leaving it up to him to ask for it. I wanted to use it one last time in Plan A.
You are NOT going to believe this. Someone PLEASE remind me they are sick and stupid and UCKYYYY
I went and saw him, brought him his favorite latte and scone from Starbucks along with the camera. He was surprised to see me to say that least.
He is why are you here? I came to bring you gifts and laying the coffee on the desk, handing him the scone and camera.
And what do I see but right above the picture of our family is HIM AND OW in a picture holding each other. I wanted to throw up. It almost made me sick. I wouldn't say I was upset, I was sickened by who he has become. And then I noticed how much she could actually pass as me in a skinnier version of me. She has long hair, but it was pulled back.
What is up with that? How can he possibly be ok in his mind. He lives in fantasy world, please tell me this is normal WW behavior. A picture of her above his family picture, hanging on the wall.
There is a part of me that wanted to just look at him and say, you are one sick person and need to get some serious help, then there is a part of me that just can't believe my loving H could become this person, and then there is the part of me that says, I'm done. Why would I want someone that is so gross, no morals, no integrity, doesn't get it at all. Has no taste, is low life, you get the picture. Has NO CLASS. NONE....
I just kept on talking about stuff and then asked him when we were going out to play frisbee. He said soon. He said he was coming over to the apt this weekend to help with my car. It actually isn't a good weekend for us and I told him that wouldn't work, but how about next weekend. We really aren't going to be around.
So, someone help me understand what that is about. Who has ever experienced something so low class. I don't even think of it as cruel, it's disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. However, I do find it interesting it came AFTER I had given him a picture of "us" together on our cruise years ago.
Can he not see how absolutely tasteless that is. Everyone knows he is married and for G-d sake his daughter works there. Hmmm. I think I am going to have to go make a night visit, bringing him a gift and meeting the rest of the crew as his wife, what do you think?
I can only shake my head because shaking him isn't worth it today. I'm being brave, but come on, how can he be ok with that.
And what do I see but right above the picture of our family is HIM AND OW in a picture holding each other. I wanted to throw up. It almost made me sick. I wouldn't say I was upset, I was sickened by who he has become. And then I noticed how much she could actually pass as me in a skinnier version of me. She has long hair, but it was pulled back.
What is up with that? How can he possibly be ok in his mind. He lives in fantasy world, please tell me this is normal WW behavior. A picture of her above his family picture, hanging on the wall.
Unfortunately in the mind of a wayward, it is perfectly okay. I'm so sorry you had to see that though. I know that had to hurt.
Too bad a strong gust of wind didn't come along about then and knock it off the wall.
How are you holding up? That had to be a huge withdrawal from your LB.
Well that's pretty insulting... you say family picture, you're talking about the 5 of you? Ya I would say that's it's sick. I think I'd be less insulted if WS just cut me out of a picture and put OM in my place, I'd still be mad about it but this one is over the top.
Does your DD know about the picture? Is she doing better?
You know, PM, I was a little stunned and then sickened. Not in a victim way, but in a way that he is one sick person. He has NO CLASS. I'm not finding the right words to describe what I am thinking or feeling.
Can someone help me.
The weirdest thing.... if you didn't know better and really didn't look closely at the picture you would almost think it was me. I find that very interesting. Only I KNOW it wasn't me. And my DD should she be at his desk. I feel bad for her. Do you think other people will think he is gross or is it just me?
HOW FLIPPIN LOW CLASS.
The good news is it's "typical WW" action. I have here to vent my anger and I am laughing about it at work.
As for a LB, actually he has done less that has hit me harder. My love for him right now is put away in a closet for self-preservation and protection. What I realized is that I HAVE NO DESIRE for this thing that could be so absolutely LOW CLASS.
Someone help me put into words what I am trying to accurately convey. Because I am not THERE yet.
I'm glad it's typical and I'm glad it's getting closer to Plan B. I'm not upset, almost shocked but not in a hurtful way.
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It's an IMMATURE form of relationship..like in teenage years..that's what they revert back to...YUCK..
So, is this a good sign? Can he possibly stay in that frame of mind forever or ONE DAY will he come out?
I think I was mortified and embarrased for him. This isn't about my feelings, but about how truly sad that he has sunk so low to this subhuman state of mind.
It's funny, I'm not hurt, I'm not really angry, I don't love him any less in fact I just wanted to hug him and tell him I love him and it would be ok, I am sickened by this in a VERY WEIRD way. I feel sadness for him that he could fall so low, be totally oblivious to it and find this as normal behavior.
The affair will end but the question is: "Will you still be around?"
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This isn't about my feelings, but about how truly sad that he has sunk so low to this subhuman state of mind.
You see, how I had to come to terms with REALITY of the WAYWARD?
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I am sickened by this in a VERY WEIRD way. I feel sadness for him that he could fall so low, be totally oblivious to it and find this as normal behavior.
Do you know what I am tryign to say.
This is EVIDENCE and TESTIMONY of how far you have come in your own PERSONAL RECOVERY!!
The affair will end but the question is: "Will you still be around?"
One upon a time I would say there is NO WAY I could imagine not wanting him back.
Today, that muscle is getting stronger. I can't deny who and what he has become and I ABSOLUTELY WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS - subhuman.
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You see, how I had to come to terms with REALITY of the WAYWARD?
I see, but my gosh.... it has left me speechless or in shock at his ability to be so low. I guess I still need reinforcements to know this is typical WAYWARD BEHAVIOR. It helps me to not blame myself for losing him. And I am SO NOT going there.
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This is EVIDENCE and TESTIMONY of how far you have come in your own PERSONAL RECOVERY!!
G-d, You Mimi, so many others on here - especially Smartie, James, Believer, Chai, PM, TMTS get so much credit for this. Yes, I did the work, but I wanted to die and not survive. This place gave me the hope to just get through the day. And one day it happened.
I am SO NOT DONE recovering. But I can walk around as a GODDESS and I can truly walk away from my H in Plan B and build a life for myself without him. I thought I was the loser in all this. If NOTHING else, I have MY SELF-RESPECT and tonight I am going to do some intense work and get rid of the intense BELIEF, that there is NO ONE ELSE out there WHO COULD LOVE ME OR WANT ME.
Wow, did that just come from my head. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thank you for helping me live again. I'm not totally there yet, but I am on my way.
I have often wondered is that 2 years from D-day or 2 years from the start of the A. Or does it really matter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Did I handle it pretty good by not even missing a beat, or should I have done something different like yank it off the wall and hit him with it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Seriously, did I do ok with how I handled it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Got any idea why he WOULD want me to see and witness that?
If he was testing me for my the LOVE or seeing who I am deep inside. I passed. I wasn't angry, I was saddened that the man I loved with all my HEART has become such a said human being that is simply destroying his life by living that way.
The BLESSING is how I reacted and felt love for MY H.
Your WH has completely affaired down. You are right when you say he is sub-human. He has become some unrecognizable version of himself.(Maybe we need to come up with a nickname for him-like Charlotte22's Mr Grey. Makes me think of book: The Picture of Dorian Grey. I lean towards monsters like Grendel-the hideous outcast in Beowulf. It's the English teacher in me). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The prominent display of that picture is very much like a teen-age relationship where the kids try very hard to "prove" to everyone around them that they are "in love." That just shows how ridiculous and immature this relationship is.
What's next? Writing "WH+ OW= luv 4ever!" in a little heart on a bathroom stall?
Don't try to figure out the motivations of a WS. It's impossible. Even FWS's who are on this forum can't completely explain their choices while in the A.
There's a saying that fits this. It's something like never try to teach a pig to sing. It will frustrate you and you will get covered with mud, but it just annoys the pig. And they like mud. (something like that...)
The prominent display of that picture is very much like a teen-age relationship where the kids try very hard to "prove" to everyone around them that they are "in love." That just shows how ridiculous and immature this relationship is.
I think that's what I recognized it for what it was.
Yes, let's pick up a name. Somehow Hansel doesn't fit this person AT ALL. Taking suggestions everyone.
I have to laugh about what is next. I actually wrote ont he wall in a closet at our family cabin when I was down there at Thanksgiving B & G forever and dated it. LOL Then I left a note on the wall in the closet talking about how much I love him and when he is reading this it's because we are healed and back together.
I did it as a commitment to the restoration of our M.
What he has become is demented and twisted because it's so "natural". I just need to pray for him.
Wouldn't you know "our" favorite game was pigs.. LOL
So, do you think I handled it correctly? Or should have done something else. There was NO LB on my part, that's for sure.
You handled it Plan A perfect! No LB's, no reaction, not even a comment-which I'm sure he has expecting. You gave him absolutely nothing to use to justify his choices.
You did really wonderfully, SG. I probably would have ripped it off the wall and throw it out the door so his coworkers would see it happen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Are you going to Shabbat services tonight or tomorrow? It might help you center.
I'm with Mimi, Plan B should begin soon. Especially since he seems used to having you around and still doing things for you. During your plan B you're going to have to make sure anything he did for you is done by someone else or you do it. Demonstrating you can live without them often freaks them out. That, and they don't get their fix of you, either. When they get irritated that they can't get a hold of you, it ticks off their affair partner.
Not only did I GIVE HIM NOTHING, but I was loving and talkative and fun. I even managed to get him to agree to help me play frisbee. And I kissed him and gave him a hug. I should probably go sterilize my lips however.... Oh I drank hot coffee, killed off any infection.
He offered to come by the apt this weekend to help on the car so he knows I still need his help. I told him that wouldn't work for me which he seemed surprised and curious what we were doing, I told him and said that next weekend would work.
As soon as LSA is set, Plan B it is.
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Especially since he seems used to having you around and still doing things for you.
He has done NOTHING for me since the day he left. NOT ONE THING. I HAVE DONE things for HIM. I have been demonstrating I can live without him, however, what I have done a few times is seek out his input and help for the kids, and other stuff. That is really the ONLY thing that will be different and the fact that I WILL HAVE NO CONTACT.
I can't imagine him getting iritated, but then again I haven't gone completely dark on him.
Thank you for the compliment Mo and JT.
As for services - I honestly don't go anymore. I don't feel connected to my temple at all. They want me to dump my H and unless I do what they want they are angry with me. I actually am going to a friends house and doing some deep internal emotional work on WHY I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE IS ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD WHO WOULD WANT OR LOVE ME. This is one of the last pieces I need to get beyond.
Once I can accept or even acknowledge I am a lovable person who deserves a LOVING, GOOD, MAN. Well it just opens up all kinds of possibilities.
Thank you..... I really felt POWERFUL when I walked out of there. Because I realized how digusting and low he is and I walked out of there as a true WARRIOR GODDESS.
This is the part that is hardest to understand. I read on here over and over again how WH has stayed in the picture and seems to waffle back and forth.
My WH has completed disconnected himself from not just me, but his children and probably left alone he would just stay in fantasyland.
I have been the one to keep in contact and it makes me nervous that once I stopped he really will just go farther and never come back.
Ok, I'm going to spin you're last comment on you...
Is it posible that he has no real insentive, as he knows you'll be ther for him? Has he been conditioned to know that if he holds back long enough he knows you'll come around?
Ok, I'm going to spin you're last comment on you...
Is it posible that he has no real insentive, as he knows you'll be ther for him? Has he been conditioned to know that if he holds back long enough he knows you'll come around? Just a thought.
Without a doubt.
And all the messages I have EVER sent him since this happened is I love you, I want you to come home, I miss you, it was my fault, blah, blah.
Right after he told me he was staying with her because it was something I had said (of course it was), I said, well should I move on and he said yes. He even told me when we went to California that I would NEVER get anyone as good as him. I think he almost said, I would never meet anyone else because no one would want me, but he fortunately didn't because that really would have lasted a long time in me.
But the day I confronted him when he brought OW over to house, he even said that us being together was a possibility. So, absolutely he thinks I am hanging on and Plan A has reinforced that over and over again.
So, my Plan B has to really be about me completely moving on and willing to walk away from my M and let him truly understand I am done. And then not only am I dark, but I go black.
Not only that he has NO RESPECT for me and pretty much loves to treat me like a pile of .....
He says he wants me to be happy, but that's a lie. He just doesn't believe that anyone else would want me and I will just stay at home crying and waiting for him.
It's the lack of backbone and tolerance I have shown. At least I think so. I have no clue what goes on in his mind. That is ONE PLACE that is too ucky even for me. Especially after this morning.
I still have some Plan A left in me and I will go out with a bang, mark my words. I just haven't figured it out.
The only other inconvenience for him is that I am still paying for his cell phone on our plan.
I will need to get that back, won't I. And he will have to get his own plan. I won't be able to look up his calls anymore, but he will also have an expense he isn't suffering from now.
Not only that he has NO RESPECT for me and pretty much loves to treat me like a pile of .....
He says he wants me to be happy, but that's a lie. He just doesn't believe that anyone else would want me and I will just stay at home crying and waiting for him.
It's the lack of backbone and tolerance I have shown. At least I think so. I have no clue what goes on in his mind. That is ONE PLACE that is too ucky even for me. Especially after this morning.
There goes that stinkin' thinkin' again. You contradict yourself by saying in the 1st paragraph what he's thinking and then in the 2nd paragraph you say you have no clue.
Stop doing that. You do not know what's going on in his mind and it's really not for you to know. Take your focus off what HE'S thinking and put it on what YOU'RE doing. What he does or thinks right now does not matter as long as he's a wayward.
Girl, you are so ready for Plan B. I hate seeing you beat yourself up like this. You are better than that!!! You are an awesome woman who is growing daily. You are beautiful!
Now go find a mirror. Look in that a mirror and repeat... I am beautiful. I am a goddess. I am a woman of G-d. G-d is my strength!
Ok, my strength is weakening a bit. I just got off the phone with his best friend.
He talked to him for about 12 minutes and they talked about WH playing lacrosse, soccer and being in great shape. He doesn't talk to him about anything of importance. How can that be?
His BF told me that you could NEVER tell there was any turmoil going on in life. He is completely just normal. How can they do that?
What I did tell him, was that he was my only link essentially to my old H and that's why I wanted to talk to him. I told him that my H doesn't exist anymore. It was important to me, that BF know that I want my H to come home, that I love him deeply, that he is addicted to this relationship and that if EVER the opportunity came up where this was discussed or H showed any weakness to wanting to come home but was afraid of whatever, to please convey to my H that I wanted him home.
WH is supposed to call him over the weekend, will see what he does. But I can tell you that the BF is just shocked and completely blown away. There are no words of wisdom, that he can offer. I told him it was frustrating to me that there was NO ONE in his life who was willing to take him on and get him to see reality. What he said was, that probably at this point, doing something like that would do more harm than good. I understood.
I just reiterated that the door to coming home was not closed and I needed him to know that in case the opportunity ever came about.
I didn't slam WH, I just talked about how he has completely disconnected from his children's lives. He did say that maybe in a few years that their relationship might heal, but he even admitted that it could be too late and the damage would have already been done.
I had to do this, though it didn't do any good. I just want to cry...
PM is right, you're nemesis is not the alien that took over your H, it's the stinkin' thinkin'.
My F thought the same thing about my M, but she proved him wrong. He did tell me that when he saw that she could make it on her own, it got to him and lifted some of the fog. As time went by and he realized that we would be fine as a family without him that was like a 2x4.
You have all the strength and qualities you need to make it just fine without him, and I can't believe for a second that there is no one else that will see how truly special you are and treat you like the special person you are. Read this thread of yours and see how many times people have made comments about who you have become.
Stop doing that. You do not know what's going on in his mind and it's really not for you to know. Take your focus off what HE'S thinking and put it on what YOU'RE doing. What he does or thinks right now does not matter as long as he's a wayward
You are so right. I keep thinking this will change, but it won't until he stops being a WW and that saddens me.
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Now go find a mirror. Look in that a mirror and repeat... I am beautiful. I am a goddess. I am a woman of G-d. G-d is my strength!
Yes ma'm
Thank you PM..... For you, good luck this weekend, BUT only for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Read this thread of yours and see how many times people have made comments about who you have become.
Now your job is to believe it!!!
That's the work that I am doing tonight, to believe it. I vow that I am fighting through this. It's just the CORE belief inside of me. I am going to figure out where it started and DUMP it. Not to mention that I have been M to a man for 24 years who reinforced this stinkin thinkin in his mind games, by his tone of voice. That just doesn't go away.
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As time went by and he realized that we would be fine as a family without him that was like a 2x4.
Time is going by and we are for the most part fine without him. The kids don't want him, it's only me holding out hope. And it's been 8 months. He absolutely doesn't give a rip. However, I keep Plan Aing him to come home.
Plan B... is really my only hope. Not for him, but for me.. If he doesn't come home I have to build a new life. And Plan B is that new life.
Did you find your keys? I started praying as soon as I read your post.
Don't be scared to be home for one night by yourself. Enjoy not having to share the tv remote and watch as many channels as you want, or just watch a complete tv show without any surfing interruptions.
Play the music you like-as loud as you like-and then take a bath, with the door open. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Marvel that you have no dishes on the counter or in the sink that are waiting for the dishwasher fairy.
Eat a whole bag of microwave popcorn (fat free of course) if you want, knowing that you don't have to share.
Watch a silly or sappy DVD that your boys completely disapprove of because it's too girly. And while you are enjoying the evening, realize that the wonderful, noisy chaos of two boys at their age will return in just a few short hours.
Gee-it almost sounds like I've been in your shoes before. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (well, not the part with the keys-at least not yet).
I like Brigette Jones's Diary. And My Big Fat Greek Wedding. After my 1st Dday in 2003 I think I watched them over and over and over for weeks....
SG... plan B can't come soon enough for you. Its extremely rare for us to hear someone say they regret plan B, but COMMON to hear they regret not going to Plan B sooner!
I'm beginning to think your WH was verbally and emotionally abusive your entire marriage. He's done quite a number on you.
What he told you was said specifically to 'keep you in your proper place.' Grrrr.. its these situations that just make my blood boil!
I'm beginning to think your WH was verbally and emotionally abusive your entire marriage. He's done quite a number on you.
I don't believe he was verbally abusive as emotionally by the mind games and the way he said the words.
BUT in fairness to him, I certainly allowed it to happen. I am not being the victim, just taking ONLY my part of this and accepting only MY responsibility.
What a night this has been. It's 10:30 and no movies on tap for me, just to check in here and go be with G-d. Maybe do some writing, but I left my book in the car. Oh well.
I did what's called a timeline. It's way too long to explain what happened, and really the story or the meaning I made out of it doesn't matter, what matters is - my capacity to love comes from my Nana and I have to learn to accept it as a gift instead of a curse.
Literally my whole life has been spent trying to hide the feelings of love or giving it to the "wrong" people if you can put it that way. I learned early on it was my job to fix people, and that my loving them wasn't enough. And I made up all reasons why not. None of which were correct or my issue. It just was.
It wasn't my job to fix my parents and it wasn't my job to fix my H. I was caught in a never ending cycle, looking to them for love the way I am capable of loving people and my mom and dad just weren't able to. Not because they were bad people, but just because they were hurt people from their lives.
My sponsor told me tonight to surrender, the piece that was missing, and I am sure it seems obvious to you or maybe not was in order to surrender completely to G-d was to accept who I truly am, which is someone who loves passionately and deeply. My capacity to LOVE is a G-d given BLESSING. Part of loving this deeply is also accepting that I FEEL along with it and am vulnerable to being hurt, deep hurts. So for my whole life I "medicated" myself from myself because those who were in my life, weren't for their own reasons able to accept my ability or depth to love them. I didn't have that internal gauge to say it was them, and not me because it was always my job to fix someone. Get the sick circle?
So the quandry is, in order to become the woman G-d always envisioned iss to accept this depth of capacity to love and learn to cherish it and nurture it in a healthy way. That is what needs to be discovered. But I also have to know that part of discovering it will create situations where I am going to get hurt. Not because I am a bad person, but because I am a loving person.
What I knew, but didn't come to accept was that my H was a combination of my dad being emotionally bankrupt and my mother being totally narcissistic.
Where does that leave things. Where it BELONGS with G-d. And that's as far as I get tonight. With G-d and let G-d guide me now.
I'm truly exhausted.
You are right Believer, G-d will put someone in my life that I can love with all my heart in a healthy way because my gift of loving will be just that instead of a fixing it kind of deal. I hope that means my H because I do LOVE him. But G-d knows, I don't.
I just need to heal my heart and learn to cherish it as a gift instead of a curse.
My H was before he met me and continues to be someone very sick. What got released tonight was the reality of completely surrendering that he was NEVER my responsibility to fix and will NEVER BE. Only G-d can and will if my H seeks him out. I can pray for that, but in the end, it CAN T be at the expense of me anymore.
No JT, I didn't find the keys. Which is a huge drag. But, I have to head down to work tomorrow for lacrosse practice, so I am going to pray about it first and then do the footwork for what I can do.
And oddly enough, I'm not scared at all, I am just at peace and want to be with G-d alone. How cool is that. G-d needs the quiet to heal me and I need to allow him. He has someone very special planned for my future. But he and I have lots of healing to do for myself before that can happen.
The journey begins...... and so does Plan B.... very soon.
It's incredibly cool Queenie. You are truly in a place where you can hear God whisper "Be still and know that I am God" (Ps 46:10). He will heal your heart and help you establish loving boundaries to protect it when that is what is needed, while still being able to share the gift of your capacity to love with strength and discernment.
my capacity to love comes from my Nana and I have to learn to accept it as a gift instead of a curse.
It IS a gift. Without love there is no hope.
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It wasn't my job to fix my parents and it wasn't my job to fix my H.
Exactly. You're not that powerful.
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Where does that leave things. Where it BELONGS with G-d. And that's as far as I get tonight. With G-d and let G-d guide me now.
Amen!
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I just need to heal my heart and learn to cherish it as a gift instead of a curse.
Yep and what a great gift!
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What got released tonight was the reality of completely surrendering that he was NEVER my responsibility to fix and will NEVER BE. Only G-d can and will if my H seeks him out. I can pray for that, but in the end, it CANT be at the expense of me anymore.
Yes!
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And oddly enough, I'm not scared at all, I am just at peace and want to be with G-d alone. How cool is that. G-d needs the quiet to heal me and I need to allow him. He has someone very special planned for my future. But he and I have lots of healing to do for myself before that can happen.
The journey begins...... and so does Plan B.... very soon.
SG... this is huge. You've recognized some things about yourself, while not flaws, they were holding you back from fully releasing things to G-d's hands. It's a hard road getting to that point but once you get there, there IS peace. The struggle between you and G-d is over. You're truly giving it over to Him. THAT is awesome.
I was over on your thread. I am SO HAPPY and PROUD of you.
FLEXIBILITY - ver good quality. In fact, I decided to do the fun thing and try and stay at the hotel over night. At the very LEAST I am going out to dinner and HAVING FUN.
I bagged the work idea, went and got my OS, went and did the fake and bake. Need to get the make up on, and head over to hotel to watch football and wait for the ladies.
Cloud Nine - no, that isn't such a good place for me.
I am finding the more balance the highs and lows are, the healthier it seems.
I did break down once today after the board meeting. I was tired of holding it in and seeing someone else do a job that I wanted to do my whole volunteer career actually brought some anger to the surface which scared me. I realize how MUCH this A has taken from me.
Then one of my GF brought me to a store and sat there and talked with me about stuff. She shared with me how the 4 of my "closest" friends are tired of me and the struggle I am having.
Not that I was shocked because I knew it. And for that reason I have NOTHING to do with them. She complained that I have truly changed and am not the LIFE OF THE PARTY.
The simply don't understand. And it's not just about the devastation of what he did, but Plan A (which they absolutely don't understand, in fact they don't buy into the addiction notion at all), they want me to drop him and move on and are tired of me "holding" on. What they don't get is this is a JOURNEY about ME, and that in reality, that's what has been so HARD.
I am changing MYSELF, I am letting G-d have my life and create what he wants and it takes TIME. They want the crazy, life of the person and she doesn't exist. I have NO CLUE where I end up on this road, but I can certainly tell you, it will be what G-d created, not me.
I told her I was perfectly ok with them not being in my life. And that I didn't feel supported by them when I needed it most in my life. I can understand why for them, but that I am doing what I have to and if they don't like it, pretty much oh well.
My sponsor chewed me out tonight about the way I share my walk or journey in meetings because I am talking to much about G-d and Torah. She doesn't hear me referencing the big book. So I told her I would watch it.
I absolutely feel so alone in my world outside of here. NO ONE wants to buy in that WH is in a addiction and what that means, and they are very SCARED or something by my walk with G-d. And for the first time in my life, I DON'T CARE.
I'm not lying to myself, I am DOING EVERYTHING ONE PERSON can do to recover and come out of this whole.
I will say that I got a freeing moment from my friend. For so long I regretted not be appreciative of all the things my H did for me in the past and that maybe I didn't tell him enough. There was a 3 tier plate thing that I always believed he remembered that I loved and contacted this friend to order it for me. The story is a little clear, but I know I thanked him over and over again and in fact people complained I did too much. But for me it was the first time EVER he had given thought to something that I LIKED and bought it for me. At least I thought so.
The truth was, my friends' H was playing tennis with H and mentioned to him I liked this dish, asked H if they should put in an order, and he said yes. Well he NEVER paid for it and she approached him a few times about it.
So, what I learned was at that point he was able to lie to me and have me believe something that wasn't true. Not a big deal accept he was on the path to lying and the OW deal just was a little easier.
Nobody outside of this site or those who have experienced this understand. Now am I handling it the right or wrong way or the not getting over it way. I don't know. I am growing, changing and becoming more healthy each day thanks to you on here.
But one day, when I look back on this time, I will owe my life to G-d and you for those nights you stayed up with me and those promises you made me say and the patience and strong arm you have shown me.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love you all so much.
I'll post more tomorrow...but been thinking today..about how LIFE-CHANGING this ALL is..you see, that, too...I don't have any of the same friends, Queenie..your changes are threatening to them..DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO for YOURSELF...the CREAM RISES TO THE TOP... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have missed you so MUCH. You are taking care of yourself, right?
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DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO for YOURSELF...the CREAM RISES TO THE TOP...
and to the top is where I am GOING.
I am doing what I gotta do for myself. What happens is not longer what this is about, but how I walk it is....
It's threatening because I am willing to CHANGE WHAT I HAVE TO to become a woman of G-d and change is hard for people. My spirituality is very scary to them and so is my obedience to G-d, because they don't live like that. I am so NOT judging them or want them to live my way. I just would love for them to accept how I have to get through this and love me anyways.
Oh well, THEIR LOSS.
Talk to you soon, I am hoping to get your input on what happened this about my timeline?
You are absolutely right! It is a journey and it's sort of a rebirth. The process is what helps us grow.
The best part about it this time is that it doesn't take that whole "growing part" (I could certainly do without ever going through middle school again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />). It's a completely different time table with God taking us through this growth.
You have new friends here at MB and IRL (me!) and there will be more as you grow stronger and are able to continue to share your love with others.
BTW-what day do you want to meet next week-end? Sunday is the only day I have plans (YS has a riding lesson at noon)so it would have to be later in the afternoon. Saturday a.m. I am taking him to Everett to hang with his dad and go to a hockey game that night so I would already be part of the way down there. But, whatever works for you.
I feel so proud of and for you. I can't say I've experienced the same thing because most of my closest friends were around when my F came back so they understand where I'm coming from. My brother is the only one who thinks I'm nuts, but supports why I am doing this. Sadly these were not true friends, correct me if I'm off base here, but it sounds like they were getting something from you before all this and now that you have shifts you're focus to you they are threatened by having to step up, and they don't like it.
JT - Saturday would actually be perfect. What time would you like to meet? I need to probably do a good cleaning, but I can do that early Saturday morning.
I can't wait to see you too. I have MISSED you. I see you called me. I was running around with the board meeting business and then came home yesterday. I have my women's meeting tonight, but will try and call later when I get home. Will that be ok for you?
There is no doubt this period of my life has had it's very worst and very best. The friendships I have gained and the understanding and ability to feel has been NOTHING short of G-d GIVEN.
I think the reason I am most sad about those girls in that we went through so many life cycles and I LIED to myself that they were my CLOSEST friends. My H at one point wanted me to give them up because he felt that they were too negative for me. I did for many years, but then when that didn't make him happy, I reconnected with them. I LOVED BEING and DOING with them, but today I realize it was surface stuff. I know they LOVE me and want to be there for me, IT'S JUST IN THEIR WAY. And that isn't good enough for me.
This IS MY JOURNEY, just like everyone else on here has THEIR OWN JOURNEY and have to walk through it THEIR way because it's about FINDING OUR WAY. I didn't want them to do anything or fix me. I just wanted them to listen and hold my hand. And they wanted to fix and have me move on.
TMTS,
I don't think they are threatened by anything. I think that I am way more insightful or willing to go to those depths to FIND MYSELF and they choose not to go to those places or haven't ever needed to. Without a doubt they have gone through HORRIBLE times in their lives, but they were stronger than me or just different. Three of the 4 hae been divorced and like so many other things in life, once you go through it it gets easier.
I am not willing to just throw my M away. That is why I got married. I realize and understand I don't have any control over the outcome, but the footsteps are directed by G-d and I am working for the blessings...whatever they may be.
First and foremost, they and JUST ABOUT everyone ELSE will NOT buy into the addiction idea of an A. And even if they did, since they are NOT alcoholics they have NO CONCEPT of that need to release the addict calling at any cost.
They also don't understand that I am an addict myself and that I LEAD a sick life that needed to change. It seems that I have a pattern of putting people in my life who want to control me or get me to do what they WANT. That worked for 46 years. BUT MY JOURNEY today, is learning about how does Queenie make it through the WORLD herself and what resources does she need to DEVELOP to MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
And this website if filled with so many who are walking that journey as well and understand the depths of the pain and debilitation it causes.
SG- WOW, you are sounding wonderful today! GREAT JOB!!
You keep the better than great work! You are on the right path, sometimes it just seems like it's narrower than it really is...
I read something this weekend about the lenght of our life and that's it's really not important how long we live but that we live our live to the fullest...it was questioning it we thought that we were living our live to the width of it? To the fullest?
I think that's the important thing, especially right now when we are in this rough patch, are we still living to the fullest?
JT-I've been getting a whole lot of emails back...nothing really important...just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I am feeling wonderful. And it's because of HERE!!! Living life to the fullest. Ah, that's something I WAS doing, but in a CRAZY way and I certainly took for granted so much. That is what is so different. I DON'T TAKE LIFE for granted.
I am feeling STRONG and have FAITH that I can FACE TODAY no matter what comes.
That's a great idea. It actually is 8 months from D-day today. I actually can imagine what you are saying in your promise on how they become less frequent.
I NEVER thought it would happen, but it is. I just need to develope coping mechanisms for those days or just shake my head and say it's one of those days, like I just told James.
Ok, honestly, my perfect bang would be to sweetly tell my WH thank you for everything he's done for me and that his services no longer needed. All the while gussied up, standing in his office, and acting distracted or dreamy while he talks to me. See, that would have driven my WH to distraction. Then rumors of flowers in my house or work would definately find their way to him. But see, I'd be one ****** of a mean Plan B'er.... cuz I was a hardcore 180'er when I first started. I 'got lucky' though because my H honestly did not want his family ripped apart and when he even had the whisper of a thought that I'd replace him, he flipped out. He took less than a day to respond. A very, very rare example. OF course, I'll never do a plan B. NEx ttime is it, and he knows it.
The things your WH is supposed to do for you... wasn't it fix the car or something? Couldn't you get someone else to do that for you? As well as the other things he's been helping out with? Are your financial deals in order and working well now? Because I've noticed great plan Bs start abruptly and catch the WH off guard.
Sure, its nice to give them the plan B letter so they know you are willing to take them back if they end their affair, but the trick is living your Plan B in such a way that you demonstrate to EVERYONE that you are not sitting around waiting for them. At least, that's my take on it.
Other than saying he would help me with the car or possibly playing frisbee, he has done NOTHING for me. He walked away and pretty much washed his hands of us. Yes, I could absolutely create a life where I didn't need him for anything. I am just not sure how to get the message across to him when he is living in fantasy world and loving being away from me and our M.
Until the LSA is to a certain point, WH could just stop the money coming in as he desires. So, what's holding up Plan B is that.
Hmmm.. thanks for the thoughts. That's so funny you say about how to talk to him. Last week when I was leaving his office he asked me what plans I had. I don't know why I said what I said, but I said I was meeting the guys for something and he said "What guys?" He TRULY doesn't believe that I will ever find someone else and pretty much wait around for him. And I haven't given him any reason to think otherwise. All my messages have been about wanting him to come home.
I don't think he would care one way or another because he told me to move on. Who knows. He actually thinks I am ugly, fat and not desirable to anyone.
Mojo, I don't think he would care one way or another because he told me to move on. Who knows. He actually thinks I am ugly, fat and not desirable to anyone. .
Oh, believe me... they care. And its a completely selfish kind of caring, but yes, when their wifey suddenly isnt at their beck and call or waiting in the wings.. THEY CARE.
When will your LSA be in effect?
You might also benefit from some reading of Divorce Busting stuff. Tis website and that one (with the 180s) saved me!
Tis website and that one (with the 180s) saved me!
Where are those?
I don't know. All he seems to care about is getting the field for lacrosse. Another email wanting to know when he can get it. Let him know. Never a hi, how are you?
I guess we will see.
Ok, I am struggling a little right now. 8 months tonight was D-day. And though it's SO much better. I MISS MY H.
I just need someone to tell me he will be home one day. I think there are times that I am still in complete and utter shock that he is really gone and not coming back. I know I'm having a MOMENT. I'm so lonely tonight.
I think after I do some work I will finish up the LSA agreement. NO time like the present, then it won't matter if I can get the field or not. He won't be able to use it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I don't think he would care one way or another because he told me to move on. Who knows. He actually thinks I am ugly, fat and not desirable to anyone.
Now I gotta tell you Queenie, when I hear that your WH feels like this about you, I want to come to Washington and slap the living CRAP out of him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> And since I'm not his wife, it would not be an LB (though it might get me arrested). LOL!!
Come on over Smartie, you have my permission. No one else cares about him to say anything.
He didn't say I was that, he just said he had NO DESIRE for me and didn't want to be married to his best friend, he wanted to be with someone he had desire for. And that was because I was fat. I should send you a picture and show you how ugly I am.
I am NOTHING to him right now. And it just hurts. I think it's just the night. I think hearing my friend tell me what he did a few years ago and all the Valentines' Stuff is just trying me tonight.
I just want him to hold me for just a little while and tell me it will be ok, they way he used to when I got scared and needed reassurance. I'm just plain tired of being brave alone.
I am working on myself and felt like a true Goddess today, I just wish I could have one day where I feel like I had success with him. Oh well. Time to stop feeling sorry for myself and just let G-d hold me tonight.
My deepest need in life was to be intimate with him and he just stole that from me and pushed me away for so long and blamed me. Here I am completely rejected by him and because I am standin for my M I'm hurting inside for not feeding that need. What should I do?
Rule 1--do not ever tell me you are ugly again. I've never seen you and I know you are one of the most beautiful persons in the world because your heart and soul are beautiful. I'm sure JT will confirm me here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Rule 2--do not say you are being brave alone. You have your wonderful children, all the MB goddesses (especially Mimi) and warriors (TMTS, James) with you each step, each day of your journey. And most important, you have God. Who loves you with the greatest love, who loved you before you were born, who will love you until the end of time. He is always with you. Always.
Remember, your WH and skanky OW are the losers in all this. Not you. Never you.
Did you get any snow this afternoon? We had a brief ice pellet shower, but I heard it really dumped on Bellevue. Just wondering if down south got some of the white stuff.
(aside to smartie) skinsgal is NOT ugly no matter what she says! She has a wonderful glow about her, and it isn't just the fake and bake, as she puts it.It is part of her inner warmth and love of others. She has amazing eyes that are friendly and inviting, a chic short hair cut-and a great sense of style (you have really cool glasses Queenie). Plus, she is the kind of person that other people feel instantly comfortable with. Yes, you might get arrested if you slapped her WH silly, but you can still abuse him with harsh language.
All you can do right now Queenie is feel what you feel. Be still and let God be God in this moment. And then, get your Goddess gear out and plan for tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Also, I don't think you are nothing to him. My belief is that the WS's ignore their BS's because if they allowed themselves to think about what they are doing-and let the light shine on the truth for just a minute-they would crumble under the fantasy world they have built out of matchsticks. Why do you think he has cut himself off from his kids? They are part of the light and the truth about what he is doing and if he thinks about it, he sees the real truth of what he is doing.
Just for fun-here's a quote from "The Real Housewives" show that my DD25 text messaged me:
Ouch....How hard did you throw that Smartie.... You are RIGHT OF COURSE... Thanks for the wake up hit.
JT, we didn't get a drop of it. I was hoping for some because I have to meet with my boss to discuss budget and I would like to delay it for a day or two.
Thank you for the compliment. I have actually planned out my Goddess look tomorrow, another NEW shirt complete with eye color to match. A pretty blue shade of colors.
I love the quote..... Thank your DD25 for me. How are your girls? How's the make up world coming.
So what time would you like to meet?
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Also, I don't think you are nothing to him. My belief is that the WS's ignore their BS's because if they allowed themselves to think about what they are doing-and let the light shine on the truth for just a minute-they would crumble under the fantasy world they have built out of matchsticks. Why do you think he has cut himself off from his kids? They are part of the light and the truth about what he is doing and if he thinks about it, he sees the real truth of what he is doing.
Hopefully one day we will get to ask him.
How was work today? Are you due to get any more snow?
If it works for you, let's meet in the morning (not too early because it is a bit of a drive) so we can beat the crowds. Around 10? If not, I'll just go visit my folks and then meet you over there. Looking forward to it.
We didn't get any snow here in the valley. Not sure if what they are predicting is going to stick around. It tends to snow more where I work than where I live, so we'll see. You know how we northwest drivers are when it snows. STOOPID!
JT you are so right--I thought (like Queenie) that I meant nothing to my WH. And then one day--don't ask me why or how--the lightbulb came on and I realized I could never be nothing to my WH--no matter how many OWs he has and no matter if he never speaks to me again. Why? Because we shared 20 years of our lives together. I am the love and wife of his youth. Now he chooses not to face me because he won't face the truth of what he's done and what he lost and the pain he caused.
Those years, those memories, are not forgotten. So Queenie, even if WH never comes home, you are always a part of him. OW will NEVER replace you, she can only stand in line behind you, taking whatever WH has left over to give.
Meet around 10:00 works for me. How long can you stay?
Wow, I hadn't thought about it like that. I know that it should bring me some comfort, but tonight it doesn't.
But then I can just walk out of my bedroom and look at two of the three miracles that our love created and I am the LUCKY one. He is so losing out on life and the memories of our children.
You are so right, she will NEVER share those memories of his past life. ONLY ME.. I know his family, his aunt. OW will NEVER MEET HER, his aunt would NEVER allow it.
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OW will NEVER replace you, she can only stand in line behind you, taking whatever WH has left over to give.
From what I can tell, there isn't very much of him at all that is good. She didn't get my H, she got a MONSTER. OW will NEVER know what I had because my H could NEVER do this, WH obviously yes, but not my H.
From what I can tell, there isn't very much of him at all that is good. She didn't get my H, she got a MONSTER. OW will NEVER know what I had because my H could NEVER do this, WH obviously yes, but not my H.
Well said, Queenie, well said. Good night goddesses, I am off to bed, got an early morning jet plane to catch!
Sweet dreams my precious friend.. Talk to you Saturday. Maybe JT and I can both call you.
I got to talk to my DD tonight. She had the privledge of going into the WH's office and saw the picture of them. She was disgusted. She can't believe how ugly this person is either. I told her she almost looked like me, but then she corrected me and said no she actually looks like my sister, and my DD is right. She has a HUGE nose.
We had a lovely talk tonight. She just knows that it isn't her dad anymore. She said that people complain he is lazy and doesn't act happy at all. I guess he does just say it for me.
Everyone totally knows he didn't do better. I still think I should make a visit to his shop at night and meet the night crew as his wife. What do you all think?
I don't have a lot of time, but wanted to pop in to give you a Plan A boost.
One thing that helped me stay focused in Plan A was thinking about a comment that Drac had said about wanting our relationship to be like it was "at the beginning". My initial response was, "hey, things change! Life happens and it can't always be like that".
Then, I came here and learned about Plan A and all of the MB principles and thought, "Heck, why wouldn't *I* want our R to be like it was at the beginning. It was GREAT!"
Then I went to work, thinking about what it was like, doing the ENs questionaire for him, and acting on those things.
So,,thinking in those kind of terms, what can you DO that would remind him of those days where YOU were his only desire? As was pointed out, you have the MEMORIES of your years together - - combine those with Plan A of making things like they were at the beginning of your R and meeting his needs and you can have one powerful Plan A!!
Well I'm sorry I went to bed early last night; sounds like you need your #1 fan around. How do you comfort this kind of pain? It sits deep inside and lurks for a while until it decides that it wants to come out but gets caught in your throat. All you can do then is to let it our in your tears.
The fat and ugly routine, yep been there, done that, so I can relate that you think that there is not one person out there that can find you attractive or love you again.
I think we both know that this is hogwash. What if (and it's a big if) our WS are not the ones that G-d had meant for us? What if our WS were the mistake and we are actually being liberated?
It was said before but needs repeating - You WH and the crack addict are the losers here. You are nowhere near that category.
I hope that you can have a better day today. Let that GODDESS in you shine because we all know that she is in you.
You are so beautiful to me You are so beautiful to me Can't you see Your everything I hoped for Your everything I need You are so beautiful to me
Such joy and happiness you bring Such joy and happiness you bring Like a dream A guiding light that shines in the night Heavens gift to me You are so beautiful to me
You really are doing well, don't let the things he -says- get you down. He's hurting and misery loves company. Don't let him drag you down into the pit with him. Someone's got to be standing there at the edge with a rope when he finally hits bottom and needs something to grab on to.
Then.. you'll get to decide whether or not to throw it.
Meanwhile, faith, and your walk with God will perfect your spirit and beautify you from within, well beyond any measure of worldly comliness.
Your opinion of your self worth is the starting point from which others will gauge your worth to them.. time to start setting that bar pretty high.. you are a -beautiful- individual. I don't need to see a picture to know that.
I don't know what was happening to me yesterday. I was doing so well and then all of a sudden when I spoke with my DD about OW's picture at his desk, it destroyed me. I think that and the fact it was 8 months D-day yesterday.
I think the fact that the weight loss has slowed up so much is getting me down.
No, I think I forget its the DRUG she is giving him. I keep thinking it's an EN that she is giving him and I am busy trying to figure it out so I can meet it. See what I mean?
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HE WILL MISS HIS BEST FRIEND..I GUARANTEE YOU!!
I'm going to hold you to this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just feel like I am in a holding pattern on Plan A and I should be doing something, but I don't know what that would be. Does that make sense?
Thank you everyone so much for your kinds words and support. Without a doubt, I need to concentrate on my self-esteem more. This is SO HARD for me, but I WILL overcome it and do IT.....
SG, I haven't read all of your story, but just a few pages and I have to say that I know how you feel. I remember the visuals and wishing I could erase my memory as I lay there at night contemplating if I even wanted to live. I remember thinking that this was harder than death. At least if he were dead, I could mourn and get through it, but having to know that he chose the OW over me was just unbearable. Skins, YOU WILL get through this. I just can't say this strong enough - when you feel your lowest, you MUST press into God like never before.
Don't forget the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, lives inside of you. That is SO SO powerful!! And don't say anything bad about yourself anymore. When you go through a time like this, its almost like you are able to tap into that power at an entire new level. The bible says that when we are weak, God's strength actually multiplies within us. In other words, the weaker we are, the stronger He is.
I know right now through all these horrific emotions, there might be days you just have to fake it until you can start to believe it in your heart, and that is okay. Sooner or later the good feelings and thoughts will outweigh the bad.
Believe in that and you will one day be FREE of these crippling thoughts. xo Free
Thanks for the Plan A boost. I really think this is something I need to work on. I feel like my plan is floundering. I'm not sure where to concetrate my efforts or what do with respect to HIM.
Part of the challenge though is, back in the early days our ENTIRE relationship revolved around DRUGS and he was the ONE who did EVERYTHING for me. He was so in love with me I NEVER did anything to feed that.
So I am in a weird position of having to create that without him wanting me to. See what I mean, what do you think?
I can't believe that during your entire marriage, that you didn't do ANYTHING to feed his love,,,to meet his ENs. Come on, THINK!
Go past the 'drug days'. You 2 shared much more than that. What are some of his favorite things? What does he like to do? What does he talk about most? What animates his voice & posture when he's talking about it? What things has he complimented you on in the past?
Have you done the ENs questions for him?
I have to tell you, I loved doing Plan A. It's really hard for me to be in Plan B and it's even hard to sometimes read or coach someone in Plan A. To be honest, it hurts me sometimes.
So,,,,, if I can come here and try to coach you - I KNOW you can come up with some ideas and answers!!! I have faith iny you!
I can't believe that during your entire marriage, that you didn't do ANYTHING to feed his love,,,to meet his ENs. Come on, THINK!
I must have read what you wrote differently. I read it as what did I do in the beginning of our relationship.
If you are talking about all the years together, oh my goodness the skies the limit and I have been doing that, I have addressed and followed through on as many EN's as I possibly can during my Plan A that started in November. I think I needed reinforcement to keep Plan A up for as long as I can until Plan B. I got lost as to what I was doing, does that make sense? Absolutely I know him better than anyone else on what my H likes and dislikes.
Since I had hit diminishing returns I was floundering on what to do. So thanks for the boost and the direction.
He NEVER complimented me on ANYTHING, EVER. It just wasn't him. He hated makeup, he only wanted me to lose weight, but now he NEVER compliments me on my weight loss. He doesn't say anything positive to me about anything and in a way, really never did. Just that he loved me. Oh, he loves my eyes.
I have done the EN questionaire for him. But he limits how much contact I have with him that I am running out of ideas. I'll come back and post what they are when I can think more clearly and maybe you can give me some ideas?
Thanks Mark, I will read them when I get home tonight.
We lost internet at work and home yesterday, very weird.
I need to take YS to physical therapy and then get to work.
I absolutely feel and look like a completely different person. Every where I go people comment on how happy I look and how much weight I have lost.
When I look at this in just terms of ME. It's a complete and total SUCCESS because I did these things for me.
He did say he WOULD come over. I can certainly call him and ask him if Sunday would work for him. I have no challenge doing that.
I just need your guidance in keeping me going with Plan Aing him and it's still ok to do. Does that make sense. BUT then I remember you saying, you can't do too much.
So, I guess it's back to sending the ecards.... bringing him gifts.... leaving messages on his phone... and thinking of whatever else I can think of to go out with a bang. RIGHT?
Personally, I feel awesome. Somehow, someway I have to figure out how to GET RID OF THE STINKIN THINKIN. TMTS, was right this will be my undoing.
Actually when I get out of my stinking thinkin and am truly honest about what is happening around me....
Daily I get comments on how good I look. Daily....
I move around like I have lost more than 80 lbs. I feel like I have lost almost 300 lbs.
When I stop feeling sorry for myself, I CAN SEE the growth inside of me. I know the BLESSINGS, that have happened to me and most importantly G-d is my life. He is the one I live for and look to guidance. It's only when I feel sorry for myself I get into this stupid thinkin and rut.
Just hit me, ok. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So I need to bury the VICTIM and OWN who I am becoming which is an amzingly strong GODDESS.
I really love life, I am excited about how I am growing, I am excited about what the future can hold for me.
I just realized, I get lost when I think that I have to deal with the ucky hubby. I don't like him. And if I am totally honest with myself, my H really NEVER appreciated who I TRULY was. He spent most of our M life conforming me, controlling me and playing games with me.
I'm not used to those games and in a sick sick way feel lost without them, and yet I HATE THEM.
What is happening to me? Why can't I accept all the good that is happening to me and just be glad and thankful. I am a GOOD AND DESERVING person. I am changing and becoming who G-d wants me to be and its moving me farther away from my WH.
I have even learned that COOKING a SPECIAL TREAT "Kills two birds with one stone"... meets the ADMIRATION NEED as well as that DOMESTIC NEED whatever...passing this tidbit on to you..
My H was SO THRILLED that I finally baked the POUND CAKE for him..which turned out delicious..thanks to Believer...he's been giving slices out to folks..they are APPRECIATIVE of HIM (which he LOVES) and then they tell him how LUCKY he is to have a WIFE who is such a GOOD COOK... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
In other words, LOOK FAB and TAKE THE GOODIES in to his WORK!! Insert a NOTE that he's still invited over for the weekend.
From what I was reading on that other thread about confronting the OW. Do you think I should call the OW and leave a message about telling her I am fighting for my M?
Would I leave a message or speak with her directly?
I didn't talk to her during PLAN A...except for when she cussed me out for spoiling their night of fun on D-Day.. It was just before PLAN B when I called her.. I don't think it's TIME yet for you to call her. You want to GO OUT of PLAN A with a POSITIVE BANG from HIS point of view. In your case, AT THIS POINT, this will likely gain his sympathy for her, she will use it as a an excuse to USE..you know the deal.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Oh and we aren't going to give her any HELP are WE.
I met my insurance guy tonight. I gave him a hard time about meeting OW and WH. I asked him what he thought of her. He was SHOCKED at how UGLY she was. TRULY SHOCKED and said she was FATTER than me.
I know we have been here before and before and before... But it just really does stun me HOW UGLY and FAT she is. I just can't believe he left me for that.
Oh well, I'm off to a restaurant to meet with other school secretaries. Did I happen to mention that not only am I getting compliments from the ladies at work, BUT MEN, are really starting to notice the changes.
I look healthier, am glowing, and never looked as happy as i do. Hmmmm....
So, ecard tonight for H. I think Friday I will pop over with the CD finally and leave it with him and ask him to come over on Sunday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What are some other ways to meet Admiration. I'm kinda stumped at what I could do.
Ok, when you say help with the kids, what do you mean? Have him problem solve stuff that I am doing with them, the fact the one of them is failing three grades, am I trying to get them together? Not sure exactly what you mean. Sorry.
Conversation it is. I have no trouble getting him to usually talk to me. He LOVES to talk about himself and what he is doing.....
Talk to him about how you NEED his HELP with CHILDREARING..from a MAN'S perspective..in raising boys...
Ok
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It's so OBVIOUS, isn't it?
Not to me. He has completely washed himself of the children and so I have looked to G-d for help in what to do. I can pray and think of things I could come up with. But these just bring back the reality that he doesn't want responsbility. He is happy having someone cater to him and not have any responsibility.
Right now, there isn't a darn thing to admire. That's why I am having hard time. I am appreciative that he gives me money for the kids. But he has completely abandoned us and says its all our faults, not his. He has no integrity, no honor. He has completely cut himself off from his life and hasn't tried to make this situation easier on me at all.
I used to admire his commitment to his family, devotion to me, his caring attitude for us. I admired how hard he worked for the family so we would have as much money as possible.
Yes, when he does act admirable or even in conversations about work I am ALWAYS sincere in my compliments and admiration. I don't lie to him, maybe bolster it a little more. I mean when he talks to me about hiring someone and I ask him what qualities he is looking for he says integrity, honesty, openess and willingness, I just want to say, how would you recognize them if you saw them. Of course I don't, I just comment and ask him how will you know when you see that. I always ask engaging questions and listen to see where I can go next.
Steve talked about how he has compartmentalized, is shutting things out, keep things out of his mind, totally self serving and selfish. How my WH is pretending not to be a father and husband as though you can just quit that.
Steve really wishes he could realize what SHE is giving him because he can't figure that piece out and it would be so helpful.
He wants me to set things up for Plan B, not as punishment to my WH, but as a form of protection for me and my children. It will allow me to take care of myself and show the kids a sense of right and wrong. That what he is doing is NOT ok.
He said that my WH is pursuing life ina way of who he isn't and surrounding himself with enablers.
He wants me to keep communicating that you and I would be great together, to be encouraging, and hopeful. He says my WH is typical, but to the extreme.
He feels that my WH's body is in danger of deteoriating. That the consequences or by products of a delusion lifestyle may catch up with him. He wonders if my kids would state how they truly feel. So far, they have to some degree and he just says they will get over it or it's not his fault. They kicked him out. Or he has already said he was sorry.
He wants my plan B to convey my position. That what you are doing is hurtful. That pursuit of happiness at the expense of your family is a bad idea. That it isn't a great idea to do things that hurt people. Somehow seeing if he has options where you aren't gaining at the family expense. Somehow I have to weave all this into Plan B letter. And he wants me to send the letter every 3 to 6 months.
He really didn't talk to me about Plan A too much, he thinks I need to get to Plan B asap. I think my bubble got totally bursted and I lost focus on what I was doing. And I got scared and rejected again.
So.... has this helped, any thoughts or ideas how to proceed with a big bang?
Oh, one other interesting thing that my insurance man said. I asked him if they were holding each other or looked happy.
He said - "I don't ever remember a time when WH has looked happy".
I remember asking our friend that very same question. Does he act happy or look happy when he is with her. He said " I have never seen WH look happy".
No one knows him like me. I have seen him happy, but he controls his emotions so much. That's what drove me away. And I just realized that what he gets from her the drug is the ability to absolutely control her. He started losing control over me a few years ago and that's when things really starting to fall apart.
So, how can I meet his need to control? Because each and every day I get stronger away from him. Quite a dilema
I meant it's OBVIOUS to US that you need help with childrearing..but it's not OBVIOUS to HIM.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
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he wants me to send the letter every 3 to 6 months.
That's interesting..a reminder..
What's your time frame on PLAN B?
Do you think he will come over so that you can talk to him face to face?
What do you think the effect was allowing YOUR KIDS to have sayso over him leaving? Do you think it would matter to let him know that you REGRET that..that you wished you had allowed him to stay?
What happened with your house? Is it in foreclosure?
I meant it's OBVIOUS to US that you need help with childrearing..but it's not OBVIOUS to HIM..
LOL - I'm so glad I haven't lost my mind. Just the obvious. LOL
Timeframe for Plan B... I have the papers almost done, there was mounds of them. I will have them to the lawyer by Friday or Monday at the latest. And then get a sense from him.
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Do you think he will come over so that you can talk to him face to face?
I was planning on popping over on Friday to work to bring him that CD pack and asking him to come over and look at the car on Sunday. Will see then.
Since I have Monday off I was going to pray for no rain and call him during the day and see if he would stop off on his way home and play frisbee with me.
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What do you think the effect was allowing YOUR KIDS to have sayso over him leaving? Do you think it would matter to let him know that you REGRET that..that you wished you had allowed him to stay?
I have been through this with him. He only HEARS what he wants to hear. I asked him to NOT leave that night, I told him that he was MORE IMPORTANT to me than the kids. You see, I was gone when the kids confronted him. I came home to the situation.
From the very beginning I have asked him to come home. He just kept telling me that he wants something more than his best friend. That he has NO DESIRE for me and wants to be with someone he has DESIRE for.
Now, we don't talk about anything that has to do with R.
My house is done being remodeled and is up for sale. I actually am hoping it takes a while so that any money can be put into an account and we are waiting for the courts to give me more than 50%
And I just realized that what he gets from her the drug is the ability to absolutely control her. He started losing control over me a few years ago and that's when things really starting to fall apart.
I don't buy this, Queenie. She is meeting an EMOTIONAL NEED. Let's rephrase this. Is she showing appreciation and admiration for the HELP that he gives her?
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how can I meet his need to control?
Why are you saying he needs control? I used to think this about my H. He didn't want to be IN CONTROL. He wanted to be THE MAN of the family..THE LEADER..IN CHARGE..in a show of LOVE..not out of a need for control...
So, he used the kids' confrontation as an EXCUSE to move out then. My H used to set up fights with our sons so he could leave to be with the OW.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />..same old WS SCRIPT...
I think it's time for PLAN B..ASAP...
I think it's important for you to TELL HIM face the face the stuff that you need to say before giving him the letter...
I don't buy this, Queenie. She is meeting an EMOTIONAL NEED. Let's rephrase this. Is she showing appreciation and admiration for the HELP that he gives her?
Ok, I go along with this.... She is completely dependent on HIM for money. She has no job and stays at home and caters to him. I'm sure she is doing whatever she needs to do to keep this going.
I do know she bosses him around, he was complaining about that awhile back to our friend.
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Why are you saying he needs control? I used to think this about my H. He didn't want to be IN CONTROL. He wanted to be THE MAN of the family..THE LEADER..IN CHARGE..in a show of LOVE..not out of a need for control...
Many many years ago, I learned about and chose to become a wife that created the house where he WAS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSEHOLD. I deferred to him in a loving and most respectful manor that he was the head and I needed his input and guidance on how to create a house and family that he wanted. I lived this way for YEARS and YEARS and it didn't make him happy.
You have encouraged me along the way that I know my H better than anyone. There are two things I know deeply as I breathe about him.
1. He has to be RIGHT at all cost. ANY COST. 2. He needs to control. I can't explain why this drives him so deeply BUT it does.
When this first happened or maybe a month or so into this, my SIL and I were talking on the phone. She made a comment on how she watched WH control the kids in a situation and it shocked her that she was seeing it as if it were her dad.
I can almost write the script on how he is controlling her especially with her being a crack addict and him giving up his life for her, etc.
So control is key here. He NEEDS it. It drove him away that he couldn't control me.
I am willing to look at this from another angle if you think it could be something else. I am willing to do anything.
Thanks for the note last night. You're right, we haven't talked much this week. You've been doing so well, that it was like watching a flower bloom, so I concentrated on supporting some of our other friends that are really struggling. Last weekend was emotionally draining, just so much energy put into the plan. It did go well though. Now it's all about tonight. I'm a little nervous about it, because it's so unknown, but I keep telling myself that she's allot more nervous and scared about this than I am. I'm just waiting for the surprise, I get the feeling that she has something that she's going to try to pull off tonight (Or she's scared that I'm going to get real tough, which I am BTW) She has no clue that I've retained a Lawyer, and I don't think she knows that she probably should as well.
Ok, enough about me....
Mimi, I'd like to take a stab at this one, and please correct me if you think I'm out in left field.
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I think it's time for PLAN B..ASAP...
How come?
To me your WH is not only cake eating, he's also decorating the cake before he eats it. Between the two women in his life he is getting his EN's met, so there no real incentive for him to really think about the choices he's made, and she hasn't had to step up to the plate to meet those ENs he's still getting from your Plan A. Going to a dark Plan B changes all of this dynamic. There is always the chance of out of sight out of mind, but that's his choice to make. You have blossomed into a warrior goddess and do not NEED him for you to be happy again. You WANT him, but if he decides not to come back, it will be his loss in the end.
You've been doing so well, that it was like watching a flower bloom
The funny thing about that, is I almost DON'T WANT to do WELL. Somehow I have to learn to ACCEPT that I am a GOOD PERSON and I AM DOING WELL. This is SO HARD. This is where my "alcoholism" kicks in. It wants to destroy me and will if I don't fight through this.
I don't see at all where he is cake eating. I am the only one reaching out and keeping in contact. The only time he responds is when he wants something like the camera or the field for lacrosse.
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There is always the chance of out of sight out of mind, but that's his choice to make.
This is my worst nightmare, but in the end, I have to have FAITH in G-d. This is TRULY where G-d has it completely where he wants it. ME TOTALLY OUT OF THE PICTURE TO DO HIS WORK IN BOTH OF US.
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You have blossomed into a warrior goddess and do not NEED him for you to be happy again. You WANT him, but if he decides not to come back, it will be his loss in the end.
Again, this is very SCARY for me. In AA there is a saying that G-d doesn't give you what you want, he ONLY gives you what you NEED.
I grapple with this very thing. Do I NEED OR WANT him. I guess the only way I know how to ANSWER it, is I LOVE MY H, and I made a commitment to him and G-d for all the days of my life. I NEED to fulfil that commitment because it is the very ESSENCE of who I am. I NEED to be a wife because it completes me, in a healthy way.
I am so NOT THERE where is he decides to NOT come back it's his LOSS. I still feel like the loser, but that is just something internally that I have to work through and let G-d walk through with me.
Now about you....
What time tonight so I can be praying for you. You are on the east coast time? I completely understand that draining feeling. What are you doing for yourself to help you when you are giving so much. You tank would just have to be at empty.
I have looked but don't see those qualities. Tell me them again. How are you doing emotionally today, are you focused on what it is is you WANT or NEED so you can come out of this meeting the TRUE WARRIOR AND WINNER that you are?
I read the psalms last night that you gave me the other day. I really look forward to when you give me those scriptures to read it helps to center me and focus me where I am at. I admire the way you have learned them. I hope to do that one day, but it will take so much work.
One of the strongest scriptures or passages I like to read is Isaiah 46:10-13 I foretell the end from the beginning And from the start, things that had not occurred I say: My plan shall be fulfilled I will do all I have purposed I summoned that swooping bird from the East From a distant land, the man for my purpose I hae spoken, so I will bring it to pass I have designed it, so I will completel it Listen to Me, you stubborn of heart ("who have lost heart" Who are far from victory I am bringing My victory close I shall not be far
I hold on to this one tightly like all the ones you have given me.
Thank you.
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I just love when someone understands this stuff...
I don't see at all where he is cake eating. I am the only one reaching out and keeping in contact. The only time he responds is when he wants something like the camera or the field for lacrosse.
See with this you assume that because he is not the one reaching out that he doesn't get anything out of it. The point I'm trying to make is that he hasn't had to reach out because you always beat him to it. Hence meting an EN. In Plan B that will be gone. I hope I'm making sense.
Quote: I just love when someone understands this stuff...
He is good isn't he.
I just want to know what he did with the TMTS that came here a couple months ago all out of hope and with no plan or idea of how to get one... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Not only in Plan B will that be gone but it will be buried.
See so much time has elapsed that I am in a way looking forward to getting out of the craziness and drama of his insanity. I thought that it would have been better timing for the holidays, but I got to do a successful Plan A.
Now is the time of year where the boys are starting up their games and our MS is starting his graduation semester. HE WILL MISS OUT on EVERYTHING.
If he isn't careful, he won't get a ticket to his graduation. He cartainly won't be getting 2. But that is 5 months away.
Do you all think I should step up my Plan A and keep it in his mind, because I really haven't had any contact with him but once a week now?
Do you all think I should step up my Plan A and keep it in his mind, because I really haven't had any contact with him but once a week now?
SG, I agree with Mimi, I think you should be working diligently on preparations to go to Plan B. Have you started drafting your Plan B letter? Do you have an intermediary in mind? What's the plan on filing the LSA? Will your husband have to sign off on it first?
As far as stepping up your Plan A... what did you have in mind? Perhaps one more big Plan A moment so that he'll have something to look back on when you go dark?
I have my intermediary person in place. And WH will NOT like who it is. I just have to get the paperwork to the lawyer.
Yes, WH has to sign off, but I can be in Plan B way before that. I just need the courts to make sure he is paying the money. I could make this LSA go on for about a year if I wanted. He won't have to sign off on it to make the courts aware of what is going on.
That's what I am struggling with. I don't know what I should be doing in Plan A for him. I have done almost all there is except him take me out for frisbee and get him over to my place. Those are what I am working on now. I am shooting for Monday to have him stop by after work. That way there is NO DANGER of him bringing OW over here.
I have mentally started thinking about the letter. Maybe I should put it down and put it out here for the tweaking and have that totally ready?
I am praying alot is what I am doing most PM.
I'm sorry for you on the loss of the Cowboys. I really am for you. How are you doing with it?
Quote: I just love when someone understands this stuff...
He is good isn't he.
I just want to know what he did with the TMTS that came here a couple months ago all out of hope and with no plan or idea of how to get one...
Oh, that's easy... That TMTS had this mentor that did two things that stuck in his mind.... 1- I think it the 3rd or 4th day of my self induced pity party that he asked me if I was actually listened to what people were saying to me. That was the little 2x4 I needed because I re-read everything that I was told and started getting a clue. 2- About a week later the same mentor could see that I was feeling better about myself but still didn't have a plan or a clue how to get one and he suggested I call the Harley's which I did that night.
Well the next morning awoke a new and improved TMTS and the old one is sitting somewhere back in the subconscious. (He still pops in to say hi now and then but the new TMTS gets him under control pretty quickly).
I still have allot to learn about Plan A and b with the hope top learn all about reconciliation as well.
And none of this even takes into account the spiritual journey I've embraked.
I have my intermediary person in place. And WH will NOT like who it is. I just have to get the paperwork to the lawyer.
Good.
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Yes, WH has to sign off, but I can be in Plan B way before that. I just need the courts to make sure he is paying the money. I could make this LSA go on for about a year if I wanted. He won't have to sign off on it to make the courts aware of what is going on.
That's what I was wondering... since it's an "Agreement" will your attorney FILE an [proposed] agreement to get the ball rolling? Or is anything filed to initate it? I'm not that familiar with LSAs.
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That's what I am struggling with. I don't know what I should be doing in Plan A for him. I have done almost all there is except him take me out for frisbee and get him over to my place. Those are what I am working on now. I am shooting for Monday to have him stop by after work. That way there is NO DANGER of him bringing OW over here.
Let's all put our heads together and come up with a wonderful Plan A strategy for Monday.
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I have mentally started thinking about the letter. Maybe I should put it down and put it out here for the tweaking and have that totally ready?
Definitely start drafting it. We can all help you with the language.
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I am praying alot is what I am doing most PM.
Praying certainly helps.
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I'm sorry for you on the loss of the Cowboys. I really am for you. How are you doing with it?
Oh I was disappointed, but my life happiness wasn't wrapped around whether the Cowboys won or lost. Soon as the game was over though my cell phone rang... it was my long lost cousin who only calls me when there's a Cowboy game... to razz me about their loss. LOL It was pretty funny.
That's what I was wondering... since it's an "Agreement" will your attorney FILE an [proposed] agreement to get the ball rolling? Or is anything filed to initate it? I'm not that familiar with LSAs.
Once he files it the ball is rolling and I am pretty sure Plan B can become reality and go into effect.
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Let's all put our heads together and come up with a wonderful Plan A strategy for Monday.
Thank you, I would totally appreciate that.
The OLD ME would have been devastated the Redskins lost. Me today, was sad, cried, but realized there is SO MUCH more to life.
Ok, let me get the words on paper and I will post it here for review.
What STRENGTH, what FAITH and what a GREAT PERSON YOU ARE.... Not to mention the willingness to change that which was necessary and you wanted to change. Plus take criticism.
Hey, if you get a chance, call me and let me know if you have any information on the availability of the field?
Thank you, have a nice day.
His tone is rushed and weird.
I wish once, he would just say hi, I hope you are doing ok. Anyways, how can I respond. I can't get the field for a few weeks and by the time I can I will be in Plan B and he won't be able to use it... That will be a consequence of his actions that he will finally feel.
"It's so GREAT hearing your voice...or it's so GREAT to have the chance to talk to you..wish I had more information to give you about the field..there are some other things that I need to talk to you about..."(or some such VAGUE response)...
Yes, he needs to suffer the consequences...No, he has no right to the privilege of using the field...You have BETTER things to do in YOUR OWN LIFE than to help plan HIS recreational time... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Yes this was the problem in your M. The problem in your Plan A is that YOU are now making it about him and that where your Plan B can be effective. As much as Plan B is to guard what love you have left, it also will give him a taste of life without you, which he has yet to experience.
I completely agree. Just remind me again. I have limited time with him if like about 1/2 an hour once a week, if that. I think he is living life without me now.
How will that really change?
I know I am missing something vital here. I just feel the wind of the 2 x 4 coming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ok, you got it. He absolutely HAS NO RESPECT for me and I don't seem to be gaining it right now.. So I can work on thinking about having that happen...
I will call him today and let him there is no news aobut the field. I also won't say anything about him coming over because he will be disappointed I can't help him.
So to fix that, I will visit him tomorrow at work, bring some warm cookies or scones and drop off the CD's. I will ask him about coming over this weekend OR ask about coming over on Monday when I am off and can assured that he won't be bringing her.
What do you think? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I NEED him to come over to my apt to look at the car that is broken. Then I was going to ask him to go play frisbee with me.
So, I can't meet him for the car.
Who am I kidding... I can flippin figure out how to work around a silly st... and small BRAIN WW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I will ask him to come over on Sunday for the car... Not say one thing about frisbee, and then call him on Monday to ask him to meet me to play frisbee. Walaaaaa..... See, my brain can be so creative, when I let G-d have it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Not to be DJ or LB, but he needs things in small doses. I am lightening speed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
And my WORLD IS BETTER, because of YOU and so many others.
I'll keep you posted how the phone call goes today.
He LIVES in a WORLD where it's dark and with ALIENS.... I don't feel sorry for him. I feel empathy that he is LOSING so much time with HIS FAMILY and he has NO CLUE.
Here I am, completely exhausted from IC session and then AA meeting. What would the topic be, but One Day at a Time.
My YS just came in and told me he was talking to one of my DD best friends' from high school about life and what's happened to our family. I asked him if he has been talking to his dad, he said kinda in emails. Then he went on to say, that the reason he doesn't want to play lacrosse anymore is because it was only fun as a complete family or when dad was here. I asked him if he wanted to tell his dad that and he said no. He said he didn't care and shut down again.
What do I do? I deal with the sadness and anger and destruction that WH choices have caused. Is it my place to say anything to WH or would it even matter?
The children.... My children... your children. Please tell me they will be ok. I have this NEED to fix it and I CAN'T. I think I will just go pray to G-d because my old sponsor tells me that G-d doesn't have grandchildren.
Well, I called WH and left a message regarding the field, that it was great to hear his voice and I had something to talk to him about. I am really tired tonight, I didn't make cookies, but I think I will stop by tomorrow and just bring the CD's so he can see and smell me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mark, what are good prayers to say for the pain that is being caused the children.
Be careful about this repressing of YSs feelings. This is what I did for years. Ask him how he feels and if you can answer ant questions he might have. He might be wondering what is going on, what you keep holding on to the M even though WH doesn't seem to care. I don't know, but the point is to encourage him by being open about what is happening. IMHO.
I am not trying to repress his feelings. I want all my children to open up and let them out, but they are just like their dad. They hold it deep inside. When I encourage them, they just say they don't care.
This is the hard part. From the beginning they were so angry at him, but they kept hoping that he would come home. When WH didn't contact them for so many weeks, they were truly hurt and reacted by not wanting to talk to him when WH finally showed some interest. Well that hurt WH and he pulled back.
Every opportunity I do get to express their feelings they just say that they dont' want him to come home. They have lost their best friend. I try to be honest and tell them I am trying to stand for my M and want their dad to come home. I love their dad no matter what. That their dad is going through a really tough period in his life.
But WH's action have demonstrated only that he doesn't care. I've reached out to WH to keep trying with the boys, and understand that they are HURT, but all he can say is that he is HURT.
I guess it's totally frustrating because no one seems to want to understand how BADLY my children miss their dad, no the WH and they want him to come home. WH isn't helping because he is so caught up in his selfishness and what he wants that he is pushing them farther away.
Its a vicious circle and I don't know what to do, but pray and leave it with G-d. I can't fix this. As hard as it is for me, I can't do it.
I am not trying to repress his feelings. I want all my children to open up and let them out, but they are just like their dad. They hold it deep inside.
Sorry Queenie, I didn't mean to imply that you were a factor in repressing his feelings. What I'm saying is that this is something he will do on his own. You're doing what needs to be done from the sounds of it, and being there for them, but I can tell you from my experience that I wasn't going to share a thing unless somebody tried to drag it out of me. I repressed my feelings so deep that I'm not sure that someone trying would have got through. In my case it started bugging me really a few years later and that's when the big mistake was made. By then my folks were back together, so we didn't bring up the past, so I repressed it again. I think that if I had gone to IC at that time I could have saved myself allot of grief. so my suggestion to you is to keep doing what your doing and never let this subject become something that you all forget about and don't discus anymore because it may only really affect him down the road.
Ok, at work and am I about to get into trouble. Darn... I got ratted out by someone that I trusted.
On to better stuff. I went to visit WH. I think it was the closest to H that I have seen in a VERY LONG time. I asked him how he was doing and he said ok. Of course it was all about work and the troubles he was having, but there was something different about him.
I spent about half an hour with him, talking about as much as I could cram in. The boys, his sports, etc. He asked me where the sell of the house was going and I told him, I didn't know. He asked if there were people even looking at him, I told him yes, I had talked to a few of them.
Then I told him that I was looking into buying a fixer up house and then including HIM as US. I asked him what would be most important to me, and do you know that he started answering. I think you could have blown me over with a feather. I reminded him of our best times were when we remodeled and he said something sarcastic, I glossed over it and looked him straight in the eye and said how good those times were. He actually agreed in a way. Then I asked him what would be most important to him, and he answered. He wants a shop to make things. I told him I wanted to help. He said I would get dirty, I told him I didn't have a problem with that and then said I looked good in new jeans and showed off my butt. He looked. LOL
And I didn't it again only pointing and referred to my hot butt. LOL. He just looked and smiled. He noticed.
He referred to "OUR" next house with me, I purposefully kept asking questions about it and even got him to hand shake with me on it and the type of house he wanted. He told me what was most important to him and I told him I would be looking around and getting back to him. He said ok.
I even talked to him about the children and a little information on the struggles they are having. He took it in, but isn't in a place to do anything about it.
However, the flip side, when he talks, he still refers to "WE". I just simply choose to not go there on this right now.
He agreed to come over tomorrow or Sunday. He still wants my help for lacrosse. And then he also told me that he is reading the book Wild At Heart. It was between that and another self help positive book. But he chose that, which I find interesting. It's reaching his adventurous need inside of him. We briefly touched on that.
Last time I saw him I noticed he had gained weight. Now he is bragging to me about how he is running on a treadmill that "we" got, and he is eating salads.
I touched his hands, rubbed up against him so he could smell me and then gave him a long hug, longer than normal. I told him I was looking forward to seeing him over the weekend and that I would keep him posted on the house.
I'm stunned. I can't get over how he referred to WE or Us a few times. What do you think? How should I handle this?
Oh, I left a note on his car saying it was nice to see him and I really needed his help with the boys and I appreciate him so much, and i was looking forward to seeing him.
Did I do ok?
PS - he LOVED the gift. Absolutely loved it and I looked awesome in black with a colored scarf. Actually I looked very chic and together....
Your assignment is to RUN..not WALK..to get yourself a copy of WILD AT HEART..it is NOT about ADVENTURE..it is about gaining an understanding of his MANHOOD and a GREAT BOOK..I'm IMPRESSED that your H is reading that book...VERY GOOD NEWS...
WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL STUFF during your visit...
VERY ENCOURAGING, I THINK...
In fact, I was thinking about what I learned from reading WILD AT HEART as you were discussing your sons...
I learned that BOYS/MENS don't typically express feelings the way we do and shouldn't be expected to...I remember my YS getting angry at my seeming expectation that he would EVIDENCE his SADNESS..which was clearly there to me...it is not the MAN thing to do...
Ditto what Mimi said. When I read that he was reading "Wild at Heart" I immediately thought isn't God good? Of all the books out there, he just happen to get his hands on that one (or it was placed in his hands). Amazing. Just amazing. This is very good news.
I just HATE to see you put yourself down because you are truly REMARKABLE. You have so much STRENGTH and COURAGE. AMAZING!! Your WH can't help but ADMIRE and RESPECT you now...
My tennis shoes are on as I go running. I can pick up a copy tonight and read it over the weekend.
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WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL STUFF during your visit...
VERY ENCOURAGING, I THINK...
I was shocked to say the least when he kept talking about our next house. I kept going to see where it would take me and he kept right on going.
Do you think a WH is capable of understanding the bigger picture?
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I'm IMPRESSED that your H is reading that book...VERY GOOD NEWS...
Why impressed and what makes is so good? I'm a little dunce this morning.
I might add that I made sure he took that when he moved out. I put it in his stuff never really imagining he would read it. He actually read it a couple of years ago, but forgets. Should I ask him about how the book is going?
Why do you suppose he picked it up. Reading a book, something is weird with him. Not sure if there is a crack and the H is working or what. But there was definetly something different in him.
Do you think a WH is capable of understanding the bigger picture?
It's NUTS..but it turns out that was my H's scenario..that he would PLAY around with his walk on the wild side UNTIL..he thought I would be sitting there waiting for him...
So plan on TALKING to him about how you will be setting him free until he comes home to you..that's what blew my H's mind...
You will also need to make it clear probably that you do not want a divorce but are wanting protect yourself financially..
Cause that was the thing with my H, too..he wanted to continue with an informal financial agreement..cause he was expecting to return EVENTUALLY...and not get a divorce...
I can't say that I understand that WAYWARD MINDSET..NUTS...
But your WH is certainly following my H's script...
Remember, my H found this house that we are living in and was wanting me to find a house that WE could live in together although he was still with the OW during those discussions...he didn't like the houses I found..so found this one.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
So I say your next step is the face to face talk to him prior to the LSA...then proceed with PLAN B..if he is not agreeable to reconciliation or moving towards reconciliation..
I don't get it. Why would he, what have I done? I'm sorry for being so dunce, but I truly don't see the strength.
Come on, Queenie...
Your H has abandoned you and your children. You have the courage and conviction to walk right into his workplace with a smile on your face,with gifts, holding your face up and engage him in conversation. I might be wrong but it takes a special person to be able to do that!!
Did you want your dad to come home at the time? Or were you so angry?
I was furious, and I think I was even more mad when they reconciled. See they never consulted us on that matter, he courted her again and that was it. But no I was so angry I hardly even wanted to see his face.
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How long were your parents split up again, did they D?
A#1 lasted about 1 year, then they got back together for about three years. A#2 Lasted about 2 years.
I was able to use this as LIFE LEARNING for our kids..about FORGIVENESS..about how people can make mistakes in life..and GROW and CHANGE..and REPENT...
Our sons have a NEW and GROWING RELATIONSHIP with their father..but HE has chosen to do HIS WORK..and I have learned to stay out of the way..
I serve as an example of the way A WIFE and MOTHER is supposed to be..and let him be the DAD...
I step back and let the THREE OF THEM do their MAN THING..it's HARD..and kinda funny..they approach me like LITTLE BOYS and their DADDY, like UP AND COMING MEN..so when POJAing, my H and I always speak from different vantage points...
You don't have little kids, Queenie..
They are SPROUTING from the nest...and will be moving on to create their own lives and marriages soon..
If you do reconcile with your H, it will be mostly about YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM..Day to day parenting is just about over for you two...
Your H has abandoned you and your children. You have the courage and conviction to walk right into his workplace with a smile on your face,with gifts, holding your face up and engage him in conversation. I might be wrong but it takes a special person to be able to do that!!
Ok, we win. It does take courage and not only that. But I actually am having FUN talking to him and have a true interest.
I will give you this as well. There is NO DOUBT I am a breath of fresh air, both in mind, body and spirit. WH or H can not deny my love of life, it's in my eyes.
I have NEVER denied my H desire for adventure or whatever else he needed to do, I encouraged it. He was the one who stopped himself. Do you think he will really begin to understand how I encouraged his manhood and remember that or will OW be the benefit recipient?
Actually this is G-d at work. This is going to be a ramble, sorry. I realized that my H was unhappy in himself and he believed that it was my job to make him happy. That's where OW came in, she would make him happy. Maybe, just maybe he is beginning to see that being with her isn't making him that happy person and so he is looking again. It just so happens that this is a good book for him to read - again, I made sure he took it when we moved out of the house. - That was G-d directing me....totally.
I need to have FAITH that H will come to understand what this battle was truly about, between him and G-d and that I always was there for him. Oh, I forgot to say how I worked in that I was learning new ways to be supportive and NOT FIX things because it wasn't my job anymore.
So, it's steady as she goes, but keep moving forward. This is the most hope I have FELT in a LONG TIME. Please pray for this book to help his journey in the way G-d needs it to.
[quote] A#1 lasted about 1 year, then they got back together for about three years. A#2 Lasted about 2 years. ]/quote] And then they got back together, right?
I have always been clear on my intent with their dad, that I want him to come home and be a family again. They are so hurt that he just left and abandoned us they won't even allow for that possibility. BUT somewhere inside I have to believe they are GRATEFUL that I am still trying to get our family back again, along with moving forward and building us a new life.
I was able to use this as LIFE LEARNING for our kids..about FORGIVENESS..about how people can make mistakes in life..and GROW and CHANGE..and REPENT...
Our sons have a NEW and GROWING RELATIONSHIP with their father..but HE has chosen to do HIS WORK..and I have learned to stay out of the way..
I serve as an example of the way A WIFE and MOTHER is supposed to be..and let him be the DAD...
I step back and let the THREE OF THEM do their MAN THING..it's HARD..and kinda funny..they approach me like LITTLE BOYS and their DADDY, like UP AND COMING MEN..so when POJAing, my H and I always speak from different vantage points...
You don't have little kids, Queenie..
They are SPROUTING from the nest...and will be moving on to create their own lives and marriages soon..
If you do reconcile with your H, it will be mostly about YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM..Day to day parenting is just about over for you two...
I completely get this and totally agree. This is about THEIR walk with each other and none of MY business. I just am looking and loving them with all my heart, but as a Proverbs 31 woman understanding that it's their journey.
Can we say WHEN I reconcile? It would make me FEEL a lot better to keep it positive or claim it, you know what I mean.
Don't worry about the reason he is reading the book. It isn't a book about relationships between men and women. It's a book about a man's relationship to God and the heart that God has given men. It is about the wounds that men carry and how God wants to heal those wounds. And it also has a bit about the responsibilities that God has given a man as a H and father.
So, let God work through the book in your WH's heart.
It's a book about a man's relationship to God and the heart that God has given men. It is about the wounds that men carry and how God wants to heal those wounds. And it also has a bit about the responsibilities that God has given a man as a H and father.
So, let God work through the book in your WH's heart.
This was exactly what I was looking for and praying for.
Check this out, Queenie. You seem to keep implying that YOU understand your H better than he understands HIMSELF. YOU keep speaking for HIM. That's disrespectful. It shows that you are not letting him go, to be FREE to be HIMSELF. You seem to want to have POWER over HIM and how HE thinks and FEELS.
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He was the one who stopped himself. Do you think he will really begin to understand how I encouraged his manhood
This is from YOUR perspective. HE may not FEEL that you encouraged his manhood. Just because YOU think HE did does not mean that HE looks at it that way...unless HE SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU THAT..It will be important to learn to ACCEPT..I repeat, ACCEPT..HIS REALITY...
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I realized that my H was unhappy in himself and he believed that it was my job to make him happy.
Well, yes, a husband and wife are supposed to be the major source of HAPPINESS for each other. But, I'm having trouble with you talking about HIS FEELING about this. FOCUS ON YOURSELF and how YOU FEEL. Do you see the difference?
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Maybe, just maybe he is beginning to see that being with her isn't making him that happy person and so he is looking again.
Who knows what HE is thinking? It is a GREAT BOOK. Ask HIM what HE is getting out of it for HIMSELF. Try not to make ASSUMPTIONS. And yes, she is making him happy...giving him the FEELING of HAPPINESS..that's what he is hooked on...but she is certainly losing her capacity to give him the HIGH..cause she can't keep up that ecstacy 24/7..he's beginning to QUESTION what he's doing, I think...
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Oh, I forgot to say how I worked in that I was learning new ways to be supportive and NOT FIX things because it wasn't my job anymore.
GREAT!!
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Please pray for this book to help his journey in the way G-d needs it to.
Let's not put all our faith in this one book. I think it's MAJOR that he mentioned the book, though. He's still a WAYWARD and could be LYING about reading it..SORRY..at least he wants to IMPRESS you, that's the worse case scenario...which isn't BAD, really...
Check this out, Queenie. You seem to keep implying that YOU understand your H better than he understands HIMSELF. YOU keep speaking for HIM. That's disrespectful. It shows that you are not letting him go, to be FREE to be HIMSELF. You seem to want to have POWER over HIM and how HE thinks and FEELS.
Actually I hadn't looked at it this way. Thanks...
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This is from YOUR perspective. HE may not FEEL that you encouraged his manhood. Just because YOU think HE did does not mean that HE looks at it that way...unless HE SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU THAT..It will be important to learn to ACCEPT..I repeat, ACCEPT..HIS REALITY...
I would need to really think about it, however in the scheme of what's happening is it important if I did or didn't do in his perception as long as I begin to NOW?
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Well, yes, a husband and wife are supposed to be the major source of HAPPINESS for each other. But, I'm having trouble with you talking about HIS FEELING about this. FOCUS ON YOURSELF and how YOU FEEL. Do you see the difference?
No, can you help me understand this better, please? I think this is pretty important that I understand the difference and stop it or become aware of when I am doing it so I can stop it.
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Ask HIM what HE is getting out of it for HIMSELF.
I did that and let him talk for as long as I could so I could hear what he was saying.
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And yes, she is making him happy...giving him the FEELING of HAPPINESS..that's what he is hooked on...but she is certainly losing her capacity to give him the HIGH..cause she can't keep up that ecstacy 24/7..he's beginning to QUESTION what he's doing, I think...
I can only wait and be still for G-d on this. Well actually everything. I truly get that nothing really has changed. I need to continue to become what G-d envisions for me, and my H is in G-ds hands. What the outcome is, I have no clue and it's truly not my business yet. I just keep seeking G-d and acting on what he gives or doesn't give me with his will in my heart. I completely get that it's about G-d's will. I just need to learn to become more AWARE of when the old patterns or habits creep in.
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Let's not put all our faith in this one book. I think it's MAJOR that he mentioned the book, though. He's still a WAYWARD and could be LYING about reading it..SORRY..at least he wants to IMPRESS you, that's the worse case scenario...which isn't BAD, really...
The FAITH wasn't in the book, although I loved hearing him say he was reading. It was the fact that he was looking for things to do to occupy his time. He isn't happy, he misses his children and a family life. That really is what I noticed, in the way he said things.
What gave me the most hope was his willingness to talk to me about a house together. I am not assuming anything, just being grateful for the LV of this for just today.
I am still grounded that he is a WW and very dangerous and sick. Actions... it's all about the actions...
Check this out, Queenie. You seem to keep implying that YOU understand your H better than he understands HIMSELF. YOU keep speaking for HIM. That's disrespectful. It shows that you are not letting him go, to be FREE to be HIMSELF. You seem to want to have POWER over HIM and how HE thinks and FEELS.
Actually can you help me understand this better. I think I know what you mean, but really I don't if I am still doing it.
I think I am confusing the statements about knowing my H better than anyone else and knowing what he is feeling? I am missing a piece here, just not sure. How can I work through it to see what I am missing?
I hate weekends as well. Next week I start working 40 hours a week. Yikes!!! I went from 6 hrs a day, to 32 hours a week to now 40! The kids and I will definately need the money and I LOVE my job, but boy, if we get a snow day that makes it hard to get in 40 hours!
I'm not staying up as late tonight as I have been. WH is coming over tomorrow for football with son. I have to be in cherry mood... for lots of ENs!
BOO right back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Where are you working?
I'm glad your WH is coming over. That's awesome for you. Who am I kidding. I'm jealous.
OH SMB,
I am so lonely tonight and can't shake it. I know intellectually that this is exactly what is supposed to be happening, but I'm scared, lonely, and just tired of feeling hurt inside.
I think I know what is really pushing my buttons tonight. A few things.
After shopping today... I got a NEW DRESS for a GREAT PRICE in a NEW SIZE, with lots of BEADS.....
Anyways, I went over to a friends house who made sushi for a few of us. We got to talking and it was about a year ago when my H and me and another couple were over there discussing life and being all happy. Everything was great and they were talking about how betrayed they feel by him. So I think the wound kinda got opened up again today.
But that's not all. Last night I did another IC session with friends, but they are trained to work in NLP. They hit upon something that is really bothering me and I am not sure how to work through it.
They asked me why I said I needed to see my WH yesterday and I immediately popped out that I am addicted to him. Most of my support system in my life feel that way. I don't think I want to argue for or against this point but just let it be and work through it in my own head and somehow on here. Because I trust you and many others on here because you understand the addiction part of WH.
They feel that Plan A is just another manifestation of my addiction and that I need to stop it. They say me going to see WH is a HORRIBLE idea and that is plays right into his hands of manipulating me, especially when we have conversations about the book or house.
What suggestions do you have for me to work through this into clarity?
Congrats on the new dress, great price, and NEW SIZE! Hooray for you!
It sounds like you are dealing with a trigger tonight. The memory of being with your hubby talking about how great things were. I'm sure that really hurts to remember that, and know now what you do. I ask myself sometimes (even asked tst a few days ago), "How'd I get here? How'd we go from crazy, passionately in love forever, to a few months later him sleeping with someone else, to a few months later him leaving his children and me? How'd I get here?"
And I'm glad it came full circle, but still, "How'd I get here? Him back home, crazy in love with me and so broken and sad for his actions this past year? How'd it all happen?" It's like the Twilight Zone.
Triggers are really tough. The sad feelings that linger for hours or even days afterward. I don't have any great advice, just understanding and a hug {{{{{{{{SG}}}}}}}}
You know, I still worry about you being in Plan A too long, SG. What are your plans for moving into Plan B? Have you come up with a timeline? I don't mean to push you. But I feel you cannot stay in this Plan A indefinately. Are you preparing yourself for Plan B?
Triggers.... I hadn't even thought of that. Silly me... makes perfect sense. Thank you.
Not sure what to do, but maybe just go through it and continue to seek G-d.
Oh yes, I am putting my Plan B into motion. In fact, I should be working on my PBL tonight instead of feeling sorry for myself. HMMMM... There's a thought.
I have my intermediary person set up. I tried to get the paperwork to the lawyers on Friday, but they were gone, so I will walk over on Monday. I am really getting ready as well. I love seeing him and talking to him, but man, he is dangerous and it wears me out.
I have a few more things planned for Plan A, like calling him to help with the car on Monday and I plan to pop over to his practice tomorrow and watch it.
I know the players on the team and if she is there, I have no qualms about being around the players and acting like his wife.
Triggers.....
I'm so happy for you and the good that is happening. How is your recovery coming? How is your FWH doing?
I think this might be the most important realization you have made so far. Acknowledging your own addiction will help you in following the path laid out for you. This sound like acceptance to g-d's plan for you.
You know I think I want to vent a little. All this is bringing up the anger inside from how he LIED for so long. How HE BLAMED me during those first few months of when they met and it pushed me away and my buttons. HE DID IT TO ME ON PURPOSE knowing EXACTLY that it would hurt.
I was TOO STUPID to suspect anything. During August 07 we got into a fight because he wasn't giving me SF, which was going on for almost 5 months and it was driving me nuts. That is the most important EN I have and he has CONTROLLED it our whole married life. I asked him what it was, was it my weight, and if so, just let me know. We hung up and then I called him again and he told me he decided to go away for the weekend.
That shocked me and I wanted to go with him. But I trusted him and knew that he NEEDED to work throught stuff like that book the Wild At Heart talks about. I KNEW this struggles he had deep inside and I knew that everything I was trying wasn't working so I gave him the space. And look what it cost me. My M.
I feel like it was a no win situation. I loved him so much new he was struggling, new that what I was doing wasn't helping and yet I gave him the space to work through it and it pushed him into her bed. And now I AM ALONE and he sleeps with her every night.
Man....this hurts deeply. Have I said how MUCH I HATE WEEKENDS!!
I think this might be the most important realization you have made so far. Acknowledging your own addiction will help you in following the path laid out for you. This sound like acceptance to g-d's plan for you.
TMTS, help me here. I don't understand what you mean.....
I am relieved to hear you are preparing for Plan B. I believe it will have an impact on him...I truly do. IMHO, if he wanted to end this marriage, it would've been done already.
He will miss you, and he will begin to feel the holes in his life where you once were. But hold on, they can get really wacked out when we shut them out of our daily lives. It may get even rockier. But when my FWS was at his craziest, God was doing the "big" work on him.
Recovery has been about as good as it possibly could be. Things between us are wonderful. We still have our painful memories and triggers, but he is here and does everything I need. God truly did a miracle for us. It was incredibly painful getting here though. He was a wonderful husband before the A, truly I considered him one of the "good ones". I don't know where he went when the alien took over, but he is now a changed man...broken by his sin and forgiven by God and me. It has made him into a much better husband and father.
But don't let me mislead you. There is still much sorrow for both of us...for me, it's the obvious; for him, it's knowing that he is responsible for the sorrow that I feel. It overwhelms him at times. But we are bound to each other with a more intimate connection than ever before.
IMHO, if he wanted to end this marriage, it would've been done already.
My H is NOT known for his actions. It doesn't surprise me at all that he hasn't ended the M. I truly doubt he would take the first step, BUT then again, I NEVER imagined he would have an A.
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He will miss you, and he will begin to feel the holes in his life where you once were.
Maybe you can help me see this piece that I am not getting. I am growing enough to admit that I have really worked a good Plan A with what I had to work with. But I am not really filling his life but a few minutes maybe a couple of times a week. I am NOT in his life, really. So, what is it that he is going to miss. See what I mean?
SMB, do you think that G-d had prepared you for recovery?
Acknowledging that you are addicted to WH, will allow you to work towards your growth. You have made great strides while under his spell, imagine what you can become now. As you have told me many times, g-d has a plan for us, and I believe that your acknowledgement will allow you to focus on following his plan in a much clearer manner.
I'm signing up to listen to it now, thank you My1stLove.
You know, I just realized your name and it's my story. My H was my 1st love and really the ONLY man I have EVER loved. I don't know how to live without him.
Oh what a friggin bummer night. Just one of them I guess. I know I will bounce back... I just am in it right now. UGH
Acknowledging that you are addicted to WH, will allow you to work towards your growth. You have made great strides while under his spell, imagine what you can become now. As you have told me many times, g-d has a plan for us, and I believe that your acknowledgement will allow you to focus on following his plan in a much clearer manner.
This is the part that is scaring me. I am an addict/alcoholic.... In order to stay in recovery I had to GET RID of THEM in MY LIFE.
My mind keeps going to it's ALL or NOTHING... and I can't seem to shake that stinkin thinkin.... so I am voicing it in the hopes of getting rid of it.
I guess the question becomes, can I manage my addiction for him and still be able to create a new M or does being addicted to him mean I have to GIVE him UP for the rest of my LIFE?
My H is NOT known for his actions. It doesn't surprise me at all that he hasn't ended the M. I truly doubt he would take the first step...
But if he were eager to set up a new life with OW, he would be pursuing D.
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He will miss you, and he will begin to feel the holes in his life where you once were.
[quote]Maybe you can help me see this piece that I am not getting. I am growing enough to admit that I have really worked a good Plan A with what I had to work with. But I am not really filling his life but a few minutes maybe a couple of times a week. I am NOT in his life, really. So, what is it that he is going to miss. See what I mean?
Because you have remained open to him being in your life, he has not yet felt the full impact of his choices. By removing yourself entirely, there will be needs you have met that he (or you) don't even realize you have been meeting. Your Plan A has been "dosing" him with you. MEDC use to tell me that FWS was getting his "fix" everytime he saw me at our karate school, even though we had no interaction there at all. When your WS no longer gets his "fix", he will feel the effects.
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SMB, do you think that G-d had prepared you for recovery?
Wow! Not sure how to answer that. I think he built me to love, honor, respect, and forgive my husband.
put God First. Seek His Kingdom (His ways, obey His commandments) Jesus is your first love. Maybe it makes sense now or maybe it doesn't...I know when my Sisters in Christ were telling me this, I was thinking, "what?? so I'm supposed to put my husband 2nd??!! What do you mean put Him first?!!"
Yes, WH is second. Put Him first in everything and for everything.
Do you kinda get what I'm saying?
I haven't been married nearly as long as you have, I was expecting to be married for AT LEAST 20 years, though! My WH is my first-everything-experience. Does that make sense? I thought he was my world. I had to straighten out my priorities and that was putting God first. Only good things can come into your life when you put Him first.
But if he were eager to set up a new life with OW, he would be pursuing D.
Our house was being remodeled and only recently put up for sale. I think he is waiting for all the "our" stuff to be settled. Actually who KNOWS what that crazy ALIEN thinks. It's too sick for even ME to go near.
And that is actually part of my addiction to him. Trying to figure him out.
Well Plan B is on it's way so we will be seeing what happens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Your FWH returned a broken man. Did you in your wild dreams imagine that's how it would happen?
For me, when this first started my old rabbit said, B, you need to get rock solid strong. And I have always had this feeling from G-d that part of my journey is to become so healed that no matter what CONDITION my WH returned I would be prepared because my relationship with G-d would be grounded and unshakable.
Having your FWH be a broken man, but be very hard at times... Do you think your relationship with G-d is what is getting you through this?
I have to be honest....I can't put Jesus first because I am Jewish. Though for awhile I did entertain converting to Christianity as a bargaining for WH to come home. But G-d set me straight when I prayed and turned to Joshua 23.
I do know what you mean. I guess I will just have to TRUST and KNOW when that TRULY happens, because if I am questioning doing it, then I am NOT. What I don't know is what I am missing to letting it happen.
I suppose I could pray for guidance.
BTW, I can't get that song on my computer. I don't allow cookied because of my two teenage boys.
Having your FWH be a broken man, but be very hard at times... Do you think your relationship with G-d is what is getting you through this?
I'm not sure what you mean here...but be very hard at times...
I was not willing to take FWH back in any condition other than brokenness. If you remember, I had made a list of what I needed to ever consider giving him admission back into my life. That list included that he would be spiritually broken before God and emotionally broken before me.
So did God prepare me for the recovery? I don't know...
God answered every prayer I prayed...every single one... OK, not all of them. He didn't answer the "take me now, please" and the "won't you make the pain stop now" prayers, but all the others he did.
Everything I listed on my list of needs...God provided.
What is getting me through is that tst is doing everything I need and could ever desire for him to do.
Do I think God had a hand in that? Definitely. God broke him so that he would be willing and desiring to be all that I need. tst says that the last month before he came home, God was body slamming him every night. He didn't sleep, couldn't eat, had no peace.
I know that list...same list, like a prayer list.. that I made and also turned into a prayer of the qualities I want in a husband and father to my children. I pray that it's God's will that it be my WH.
I agree with SMB, I wouldn't take my WH back unless he surrendered his life to Him. It's the only way I see it will happen...but it will also only happen if my husband wants it to happen, too. So I pray for my WH's salvation and for his heart of stone to turn into a heart of flesh. (softened heart).
"It's funny, I keep praying and praying and praying and G-d just won't answer that one prayer of bringing my H home. I wonder what I am doing wrong?"
Believe and you shall receive! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It will happen in God's time.
It's funny, I keep praying and praying and praying and G-d just won't answer that one prayer of bringing my H home. I wonder what I am doing wrong?
Perhaps, it is just an issue of God's timing versus our own. I prayed the same prayers for months with what seemed like no answer.
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How did you develop that list of needs and where did you keep it or what did you do with it?
One day, when I was feeling like I could never go back to this marriage, but also waws holding on to the belief that all things are possible in Christ Jesus, I asked myself, "How could I ever trust this man again?"
And that is how my list was formulated. I began truly examining what I would need to really trust. I didn't want a marriage that lacked anything. If it were ever to be a marriage again, it was going to be one of passion and intimacy and trust and respect and honor and love. I wasn't just going to settle for, "OK, my family's back together and that's what's best for the children."
So, what did I need to feel trust again? That's where I started. Ask yourself, what would you need to restore your trust. I listed certain attitudes and then listed actions that would demonstrate those attitudes. For example, openness and honesty....a polygraph; remorse...apology to me and the children.
The key for me really boiled down to I was no longer willing to settle for anything less than someone who wanted me.
But our story isn't typical...and neither is our recovery. I didn't have to watch him go through withdrawal. His A died a natural death, and his was disgusted with OW. I could not have gone through withdrawal. I wasn't willing to any longer.
Decide what you are willing to accept. Then make your list...attitudes and actions.
Once my list was made, I put it away, never thinking I would actually get the opportunity to give it to him.
One more thing, I specifically put things on the list that he would NEVER do, unless he was broken by God. That's why I know for sure...this is all a God thing.
They asked me why I said I needed to see my WH yesterday and I immediately popped out that I am addicted to him. Most of my support system in my life feel that way. I don't think I want to argue for or against this point but just let it be and work through it in my own head and somehow on here. Because I trust you and many others on here because you understand the addiction part of WH.
They feel that Plan A is just another manifestation of my addiction and that I need to stop it.
SG,
tst and I are sitting here discussing the addiction aspect of this. tst is also an addict/alcholic in recovery for 25 years. His response to this notion of you being addicted to WS:
Gen. 2:24 says, "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and they will become one flesh."
I don't know that I necessarily consider being one an addiction, but I do understand how it can feel that way given the current situation you are in. I would relate this more along the lines that your one flesh is being torn apart and is attempting to become two again. I don't think this is the way God ever intended it to be.
I can understand the addiction to the high that you may get from seeing WS and how you might relate that to a similar high that you received from drugs. But the high we receive from drugs is an unnatural one; whereas the high that you may be receiving from seeing WS is a God-given natural one.
I need to ask some questions abour your addiction tst. Were you in recovery or living a dry drunk?
If you are in recovery, are you working the steps to help yourself recover?
Is there anything you can think of that I could do in Plan A before I go into Plan B and completely dark?
I am in such a weird place. I haven't gotten to the place that I wouldn't take him back whoever he was. How did you get to that place. I'm still desparate to just have him come home and that's why it's can't happen. I would still be trying to fix him or DJ him into his journey.
SOMEHOW, I have to remember and truly truly come to terms with the arena or situation that created this A for my H still exists inside of him. And if he were to come home, life would be the same because he hasn't changed in fact become more broken in many ways because he crossed over the line and it would be just that more easier to do it again.
I have done so much work to change not for him but because that is what G-d needs me to do. But I am not completely at hat place where I DESERVE something better than what WH gave me all those years or is capable of giving me today. I still am trying to control this, darn it. I still am thinking if you only give me the chance I can do this and turn him around.
THAT IS A LIE, AND I HAVE TO GET THIS. This is NOT MY WAR. My war with G-d has been WON BY G-D. He does still have his squirmishes with me, like moments like this, BUT THE WAR HAS BEEN WON.
Really and truly, I believe that my understanding of all that I can DO, is to keep praying for my H's heart to soften like Pharaoh. How weird that my children's name are Miriam, Aaron and Moses. Not exactly those, but darn close, whether by Hebrew or American. And I truly believe that it will be the plagues that are the catalyst to softening his heart.
Like Mimi says, somehow, for my survival I have to build up a wall of protection around my heart and just keep walking in FAITH no mattter WHAT.
When I am worried or struggling with the situation, clearly I am NOT accepting it and then I am out of G-ds will. Because it's happening exactly as G-d wants it to.
Doesn't mean it isn't hard. I just need to pray and give it away some more. I like the idea of the writing down on paper, I think I will do that and put it away.
Hope, I can answer that. It seems to be so more obvious when it's someone else. It takes what it takes. Which is G-d. He WILL DO IT we just have to LET HIM HAVE our H completely and totally and live our LIFE they WAY he is DESIGNING for US.
Skinsgal - When the affair ends, they usually want to come home.
G-d is working right now as we speak to bring your husband home. We still don't know the outcome, so it makes us feel uneasy.
I thought that G-d had turned his back on me. It was really a crisis of faith for me. I didn't believe that my ex would ever want to come back. It took 4 years, but he did. And that length of time is very unusual. So chin up, have faith, and continue making a good life for yourself and your children. Hopefully hubby will join you.
Believer, you kept the faith for so long. What happened to change inside of you.
How is your visit with your mom going. I knew she was down there with you. I just didn't realize she lived up here close to me. Are you coming for a visit?
I had lots of times when I gave up. In fact I finally really did give up and divorced him.
Visit is going well. My mom loves to walk and be outside. So we have been doing a lot of walking on the different beaches. We also went to a few gardens (she loves gardening) and the local sites.
It was snowing the day she left, so she is happy to be somewhere warm.
I visited for a month in April, a month in August, and a month in November, to help her care for my dad. We really didn't do much because someone always had to be with him. He died the end of November.
This visit has been good because they were married over 60 years and she misses him.
I bought a new bible that has commentaries on the side pages, I am waiting to get the women's commentary that was just put out.
I have learned to pray before opening the book and asking G-d for what the message or lesson is he wants me to learn. Last night I turned to the part of Esther and read thinking there were no point, so I moved to the psalms and I read, but not really getting the message.
I've been posting on here and went back to sleep. I had just gotten alittle more honest with myself about this and when I am truly honest can see that I still have much to learn about being a proverbs 31 woman. My domestic GODDESS talents are NOT what they should. I am not finding and implementing the consistency of cooking dinners regularly for the boys or cleaning the apt regularly. It's way better, but its' not where I would really like to be at. So I need to think of ways to incorporate that into my life everyday and have it become a part of me.
With that honesty, I crawled into bed to pray and read Torah. This book is almost 1500 pages or more and I turned to almost the same page as last night. Remember this is new so I don't know where I am going at all. It was the story of Esther.
At first I was confused, but then I asked G-d what's the message. It hit me..... Esther was about the little changes not making a difference, but it did and she saved the JEWS.
Who can better help me put into words what the story of Esther is about, I have it on the tip of my tongue. Anyways, sometimes G-d really does hit me with a brick when I am open to receiving it.
I love the story of Esther (plus it happens to be my middle name). Everyone knows that Esther was able to turn the heart of the King in favor of her people but I don't know if everyone understands the time and preparation that went into that. She had to go through a long process before she could even be presented to and chosen by the King.
Her whole life was in preparation for "such a time as this".
She was given favor by God as well as the strategies and weapons she needed to turn the King's head and thus save her people.
You could say that by finding MB, you are being given the strategies and weapons you need that also involves preparing and getting ready "for such a time as this."
I need to ask some questions abour your addiction tst. Were you in recovery or living a dry drunk?
I had not been working a very solid program for several years. I wouldn't have called it a dry drunk, as I am very familiar with what that looks like. But I was not working the steps either.
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If you are in recovery, are you working the steps to help yourself recover?
I am still in recovery and have maintained, by the grace of God, 25 years of sobriety and clean time. I am also in marital recovery. I dove into the steps immediately, knowing that this is what saved my life once before. I began lists and making amends immediately. I became radically honest (rigorously honest) for the first time in my life. The process of surrendering my life and my will to the care of God, as I understood Him, took on a whole new meaning when I finally surrendered everything to Him. I became sweetly broken.
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Is there anything you can think of that I could do in Plan A before I go into Plan B and completely dark?
Fully work step 1, 2, and 3. Remove the word alcohol and replace it with your husband's name. You need to completely surrender him unto God in order for Plan B to be successful.
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I haven't gotten to the place that I wouldn't take him back whoever he was. How did you get to that place. I'm still desparate to just have him come home...
SMB says:
It was when I completely surrendered tst to God that I got to that place. I purposed in my heart to let him go and live my life as if he were no longer going to be a part of it. I told God to take him and do what he will with him. But that prayer wasn't a "Oh, take Him and do what you will so that he can come home." It was take Him, break Him and do whatever it takes to restore Him to you." This prayer no longer had anything to do with me. It was no longer about my marriage... it was about saving my husband's life.
END OF SMB'S THOUGHTS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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SOMEHOW, I have to remember and truly truly come to terms with the arena or situation that created this A for my H still exists inside of him. And if he were to come home, life would be the same because he hasn't changed in fact become more broken in many ways because he crossed over the line and it would be just that more easier to do it again.
This, again, is where steps 1, 2, and 3 come into play. You are powerless over how he feels thinks or acts. Brokenness that I refer to is the brokenness when God had His way with me. I became truly SWEETLY broken so that God could begin building the man He had always called me to be. The brokenness you refer to is the wreckage of his past and present situation, which you have no control over, except in prayer.
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But I am not completely at hat place where I DESERVE something better than what WH gave me all those years or is capable of giving me today.
You DESERVE a faithful husband who is committed to his marriage for life; a man who is bound in one flesh to you. THAT is what you deserve regardless of your past actions in your marriage.
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THAT IS A LIE, AND I HAVE TO GET THIS.
SMB still here:
Yes, this is a lie. Now, claim the truth I just gave you above.
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This is NOT MY WAR.
That is EXACTLY right. The battle is between God and your WS. Your WS is running from God, not from you. BUT you are a prayer warrior in the battle.
END OF SMB'S INTERRUPTION <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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When I am worried or struggling with the situation, clearly I am NOT accepting it and then I am out of G-ds will.
You SHOULD NOT accept the situation. You are stuggling because your ONE FLESH is being RIPPED apart.
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Because it's happening exactly as G-d wants it to.
I disagree. This is not exactly what God WANTS. His desire is for you and WS to be in the center of His will...as one...but He allows us the freedom to do otherwise if we choose. But He guarantees we won't like the outcome, either. Being outside of God's will causes destruction.
Her whole life was in preparation for "such a time as this".
I actually believe this to be true of me right now. I am being prepared and I just need to walk through it day by day until G-d reveals what he wants me to do. True?
TST,
My WH has over 18 years sobriety, and I have over 21 years. We went to AA for many years in the beginning, but I NEVER worked the steps and he only worked them in treatment. I would say that we both hadn't been to an AA meeting in almost 14 years and NEVER worked the program. Given that I bet you can imagine how our life played out.
A few weeks back WH and I were talking about sobriety dates. I asked him what his was and he got very weird, started shuffling papers and said that it wasn't important to him. I found that fascinating actually. I told him it should be important and I was going to find out what the date was. It was Mother's Day in 89. Do you think I should give him that information or just hold on it.
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I purposed in my heart to let him go and live my life as if he were no longer going to be a part of it. I told God to take him and do what he will with him.
I know this in my head, it's just my heart that isn't completely committed. I should probably start praying to G-d for this. THIS IS HUGE for ME.
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You are powerless over how he feels thinks or acts.
Something that I really need to work on.... I am so bold as to think I do and I have to STOP that.
Thanks SMB for saying that I DESERVE a faithful man, regardless of the wreckage of my past. I have owned up to everything and am in the process of working on my amends. I also am working diligently to TRULY believe in myself as a worthwhile person, it's just a very long and hard process for me.
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You SHOULD NOT accept the situation. You are stuggling because your ONE FLESH is being RIPPED apart.
Not accept the situation, but accept that this is happening for a reason. WE were BOTH DYING SPIRITUALLY, I have been so bold as to say it's what I was doing to HIM that caused this, but the truth is, we are BOTH responsible for our own lives and to seek G-d. It wasn't my job to make him happy. It was ONLY my JOB to complete him as G-D saw fit. That's what I mean by acceptance. That my purpose in life is to please G-d, seek his word and guidance and truly understand that what's happening is happening because G-d needed MY ATTENTION as well as WH's ATTENTION. He has MINE...
But HUBBY'S is not my concern.
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Being outside of God's will causes destruction.
That was how I WAS living my life and it NEARLY killed me. You are so right, I have to live steps 1, 2 and 3 daily to keep this in front of me at ALL TIMES.
At first I was confused what you meant by working these steps in Plan A as being helpful. DUH!!! Plan A is about ME and making those changes in ME.
TST, what do you do to take care of your spirit each day. Do you read one day at a time, go to meetings, talk to a sponsor? If too personal, just tell me.
You see, I try to talk to my sponsor, but oh darn, I talk about my H as well. I guess SMB what you are saying is I have to stop thinking about him and just let G-d have him.
What was purposeful for you? How did you accomplish this? Constant prayers, writing, what?
I've read a lot of your thread, but it's been awhile.
How many meetings are you going to? And for how long have you been back to AA?
Does your sponsor have a solid program. What I mean by that is has she worked through all the steps? I am assuming your sponsor is a woman. Is that correct?
I guess I'm also curious what you are doing to protect yourself at these meetings? Are you purposefully sitting with and sharing only with other women?
In response to your question about what I do to take care of my spirit each day... I pray with my wife, for my wife, for my children and my family. I make time to meditate on specific verses each day. I continue to remember that I am in a process of recovery and that it's not an "event".
A few weeks back WH and I were talking about sobriety dates. I asked him what his was and he got very weird, started shuffling papers and said that it wasn't important to him. I found that fascinating actually. I told him it should be important and I was going to find out what the date was. It was Mother's Day in 89. Do you think I should give him that information or just hold on it.
When I first read this, my immediate thought was that perhaps he is no longer maintaining sobriety or had relapse in the past that you were unaware of.
I just mentioned that to tst and he said he had the same thought when he read it.
???
As far as what to do with the information, tst suggested that you give him a gentle, sweet reminder since you are still in Plan A.
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Thanks SMB for saying that I DESERVE a faithful man, regardless of the wreckage of my past.
You are welcome. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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What was purposeful for you? How did you accomplish this? Constant prayers, writing, what?
Yes to constant prayers and yes to writing.
I am in almost continuous dialog with God throughout the day. Have been talking to Him like that for years. He is ever-present in my daily affairs.
I am a writer by design...meaning I can't NOT write. I have been writing for as long as I can remember...poetry, stories, jounaling, and prayers. I generally write to God when my sorrow is too great to bare. Some call this journaling. But I don't do it daily, just when I feel the desire or need.
What was purposeful???
I remember standing in front of my mirror, staring at all the verses and prayers I had written on it, still feeling the disbelief that the man I knew and loved for 24 years had chosen to leave me for OW.
The verses I had written proved to me that I would be alright. ("I know the plans I have for you, not to harm you, but to prosper you." and "Lean not on your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.") I knew God would take care of me because I had not chosen this. I realized that no matter what FWH chose to do, God would make my life good again.
I also realized that because of FWH's choices, his life would never be good (unless he returned to his family). I was overwhelmed with sadness to know that the man I called husband for all these years, would spend the rest of his life in agony for his decision once he came out of the fog.
I stood looking in that mirror and prayed: "Do what you will with him Lord, there is nothing I can do. He is yours."
Then I looked at myself and told myself it was time to rise up and move on.
What did I purpose? I finally figured it out. I purposed that he was not coming home. It was his decision, but when I embraced it, I released him.
How many meetings are you going to? And for how long have you been back to AA?
I got anywhere from 3 to 5 meetings a week sometimes. I have been back in AA since 9 days after D-Day.
Yes, my sponsor has a strong program. She has worked through all the steps. It's kinda an odd or G-d deal. Her walk the last year has been about totally trusting G-d and walking in faith. I met her the first night I walked in those rooms and we connected immediately. She is frustrated with me now because she wants me to stop trying to get my H home. She immediately picked up that my H is a drug to me. Partly because she doesn't understand or buy into the MB principles that my H is in an active addiction.
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I guess I'm also curious what you are doing to protect yourself at these meetings? Are you purposefully sitting with and sharing only with other women?
My home group is a wome's group. I go to mixed meetings. I'm not sure what the concern is, so help me understand, ok?
Ok, sweet gentle reminder I can do. I'll do it by an ecard maybe... I have to do it before I get into Plan B however and that will be LONG before his birthday. I honestly don't know whether he has relapsed or not. He lied about so much for so long it truly is possible. My sense is that he is running from AA because he knows that he is DOING WRONG. But there again, I have NO IDEA TRULY what is going on. Only G-d does and I so need to not go there.
I truly feel I am so close... I KNOW that my H needs to be broked for G-d to work in him. And this isn't for ME, it's for HIM. He is miserable in HIS LIFE with or without me. I love him SO MUCH, I think I can honestly say I JUST WANT him to FIND PEACE in G-d and in his LIFE. And if that means he needs to be away from me, then that's what it needs to be. So, I think I will look to Torah today and really start praying for what G-d really wants me to be praying for. My H's life in his hands so he can work his blessings in him. I am like you SMB. I am saddened that my H could live his life out in misery unless he starts to find G-d and live for him. I'm sure I am not saying that good enough, but it's what's on my heart.
But since I am still in Plan A, this is what was accomplished today. I went to his lacrosse practice and there was NO OW. I find that interesting actually. Not going to figure it out, don't know what's what. He came over and said hi, asked me what I was doing here and I told him I came down to watch him play. I was taking pictures with my little new camera, he commented on it being fancy. I agreed. Said it wasn't as good our OURS.
He showed me where he got bruised yesterday, I immediately reached down and rubbed it with my hands....Gave him some comfort. He was off playing.
At one point I called out to him as sweetie and he responded, came over to see if he had his phone in his backpack. He didn't, but he did have a new wallet.
Of course I did. I took it out and walked away. He went to DMV and got his new license with different address. And he doesn't have the picture of me from about 14 years ago, but he does have the picture of me and my son that I gave him back in early December. I was shocked at that. Why would he keep that in his wallet? That was purposeful. His wallet is full of pictures of his children, one of me and none of HER.
I had to leave early to get home and give my son the car for lacrosse practice. I didn't want to interrupt H again, he was having fun, commented that these kids were young, I go yes, but you are young at heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I called him on cell phone and told him how much I loved watching him, that he was really improving and the he could see it himself. I also told him that I hated to leave and explained about our son having a college coach visiting practice, but that I really wanted to stay and watch him more. I told him I would talk to him later tonight or tomorrow about the car.
I have to say it... I wonder if he notices that I left? Would he even care. I am still shocked that she wasn't there with him.
Oh yeah, I was dressed so gorgeous, slim looking and wore my tennis shoes, I walked around the track a little and even ran for him to see. That was fun. Because I can run.
Yes, my sponsor has a strong program. She has worked through all the steps.
That's very good to hear. It's impossible to work the program on your own.....Lean on her experience.
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She is frustrated with me now because she wants me to stop trying to get my H home. She immediately picked up that my H is a drug to me. Partly because she doesn't understand or buy into the MB principles that my H is in an active addiction.
This is one area I have a beef with people in the program, many have the notion that they are qualified to act as marriage counselors. The only qualification we in AA have in common is our ability to help people recover from the throws of alcoholism and drug addiction. Alcoholics should not come to MB'ers to learn how not to drink, anymore than someone in the throws of an affair shouldn't go to AA to recover their marriage.
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I guess I'm also curious what you are doing to protect yourself at these meetings? Are you purposefully sitting with and sharing only with other women?
My home group is a wome's group. I go to mixed meetings. I'm not sure what the concern is, so help me understand, ok?
The concern is that you need to have extraordinary precautions in place to protect yourself emotionally. Whether you feel it or not, you are vulnerable right now. It is important that you do not allow yourself to be in a position to develop an emotional connection with someone of the opposite sex.
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My sense is that he is running from AA because he knows that he is DOING WRONG.
Your instincts serve you well, young Jedi. (says Yoda) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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I love him SO MUCH, I think I can honestly say I JUST WANT him to FIND PEACE in G-d and in his LIFE. And if that means he needs to be away from me, then that's what it needs to be.
I know for myself that I would never find peace outside of God's will, which included being home with my wife.
The concern is that you need to have extraordinary precautions in place to protect yourself emotionally. Whether you feel it or not, you are vulnerable right now. It is important that you do not allow yourself to be in a position to develop an emotional connection with someone of the opposite sex.
No one would want me. I'm still fat, though getting way better. Actually, ok, I am looking really good and I am mending very nicely. I probably would be attractive to someone out there. I do understand what you mean, and I can honestly see the need to be VERY CAREFUL.
You are so right, I am EXTREMELY VULNERABLE and know that I have a need to feel desirable. So, I will just be more careful.
He is completely in the throws of an addiction with her and a dry drunk. He is so capable of lying to himself. That's why I KNOW that only G-d can help him. It's NOT MY PLACE and truly never was. I just love him.
I really do hope that G-d's will is for us to be together. When I was with him today, we just are so matched. We have so much together. Oh well, not going there.
EDITED to say that this post is from SMB. TST was logged on my laptop. Oops!
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I love him SO MUCH, I think I can honestly say I JUST WANT him to FIND PEACE in G-d and in his LIFE. And if that means he needs to be away from me, then that's what it needs to be.
I have to stop you hear, SG.
A WS cannot have peace until they do the right thing. The right thing is never going to be leaving your BS for OP.
But as the BS, you cannot make him do the right thing. But his choosing to leave the family God gave to him, will not bring him peace. Do you understand what I am saying?
He can choose to continue in his sin, which will never lead to peace. OR he can choose to repent (turn away from his sin), do the right thing, and peace will come.
It is OK to recognize this as truth and still release him to God. God may choose to body slam him over and over until he "gets it". Or God may choose to leave him in his sin for reasons we cannot understand. Or God may have 1001 other options we cannot see. That is HOW it is in God's hands. That does NOT mean the same thing as everything that is happening is God's will.
It is never God's will for someone to commit adultry. It is never God's will for someone to leave their family for OP. Those people are choosing to be outside God's will. What God does with them...well, that's up to Him.
This is why the battle is between WS and God. It is about WS choosing to sin.
I stopped myself. I said I was becoming more desirable, didn't I. Progress not perfection. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Honestly TST, I understand what you are saying, but I am losing the point in what I should be praying for then.
Let's take it slower, ok. 1. I can admit that I am powerless over WH and that my life has become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of G-d as I understood him.
I understand that I have to stay completely out of G-ds way and accept what his will is for both my H and myself.
If I ultimately want my H to be in good with G-d, where is my thinking going off from where you stopped me?
And MB is extemely fortunate to have you here, too.
Nothing goes one way. You're Queenie...know this.
LA
not sure I know this, but will let it be for now. Maybe one day I will understand and accept what I am able to offer. I'm getting better? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
If I ultimately want my H to be in good with G-d, where is my thinking going off from where you stopped me?
SG,
I'm not sure if you realize that one of the posts up there tst was logged in but I (SMB) was responding.
I was the one who said "let me stop you here." (or something like that, anyway).
I understand that you want your H to be in good with God. Do you understand though that it has nothing to do with you?
This battle is between WS and God. This is about WS's relationship with God. When he gets that relationship where it belongs, everything else ends up right where it belongs.
You asked what to pray??? There is no "special prayer", SG. Just go to God with your heart. When you are hurting, just tell Him about it. When you are angry, lay it out there for Him. Cry out to God. He already knows your heart, but when you share it willingly, the relationship becomes more intimate.
My prayers for tst were VERY SIMPLE. I had prayers written on my mirror and would say them every time I looked at the mirror (several times a day):
Pray for God to have His way...In you, in your H, in your children, in your job, in your life, in your neighborhood, in your city...
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.
Pray for God's will to be done knowing that it is His will that you come to Him for your strength and hope. Believing that God's will is for your marriage to be restored, but more than your marriage, He wants your relationship with Him restored.
Pray for comfort (which means "with power") from Him so that you may remain faithful no matter what your WH does.
Pray that God will remind you daily that He is with you.
Joshua 1:5 As I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will never leave you or forsake you.
Isaiah 49:14-16 But Zion has said, "The Lord has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me." Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has born? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands...
When she approached the king without being summoned by him first, she was putting her life on the line. And yet she did it for her people...for God's people.
Though she was afraid, she put on her best, did her hair and did what needed to be done...
And God blessed her for it and not only saved His people, but honored her for generations yet to come. Even today she is honored every year with the celebration of Purim.
And all because she overcame her fear and did what God called her to do and what He put her in that place and time to do. It was after all, something only she could do...
Please excuse the ignorant French Canadian boy who you are my only Jewish friend, but can you describe this dish?
How are you doing? I see that TST and SMB are back (I see now what they are so respected) and have been helping you out.
I'm kind of drained tonight. Just the emotions of the night before are catching up... you know what it's like to hope to see that glimpse. We had another little run in when we talked about the kids and where they would stay and when. She was looking at the cat as I was staring at her, she looked up smiled and said what? I said that I'm soaking in all her beauty while I have the chance. She said she was sorry for hurting me and I said I was sorry for letting her down. I didn't break down this time (not going to do that every time), but she started crying. I told her then that my heart belonged to her, and that I hoped that her heart would feel that one day. I've got that empty feeling inside of me, I exist that's it. Not sad, not mad, not anxious... just there.
Just be still.... You know, you dont' need to keep putting yourself through the pain of reminding her.
The past is the past. You have told her you are sorry. My sponsor tells me that that's who I was and who I am becoming would NEVER do those things. And I think it applies for you as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
If I can be so bold as to say, just keep being who you are becoming and stop apologizing. I would say you have probably told her three times an apology? In Judaism, if you apologize 3 times your indescretion is wiped out, whether the person forgives you or not. Make sense? Anyone disagree? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Hamantaschen is a tri fold cookie that is filled with any type of goody from poppy seed, to prunes, to jellies, to chocolate chips. They are awesome. Do a google search. Your mouth will water. I have a fabulous recipe if you ever want it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I actually am doing awesome. I am lucky to have tst and smb posting to me. I need it so much. As you can tell, my recovery is really needing to move forward and letting my H completely go and realize that it could be forever. I just don't know what the outcome will be. I just have to believe G-d will turn it into good for my dedication to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
So tonight at the meeting, in light of what tst said about talking to a mixed group, I realized that I actually am very appealing in a crowd of people. I am vivacious, much happier these days, dressing up as a GODDESS, losing weight, and looking sharp with my make up. People are noticing that I seem happier and more peaceful. So I do need to be careful that guys don't start paying attention to me, because I AM so vulnerable and lonely. Not to mention H. But we won't go there at all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
A suggestion was made to buy balloons and go to a park and set them free as I say the third step prayer for my addiction to my H. I think that is an EXCELLENT idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Also, I now have a rubber band on my wrist and when I start that stinkin thinkin I snap myself and when I start to worry, or focus on that which is G-ds business, I will snap myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I realized today as I was watching WH play lacrosse. He really is just a kid, he is most comfortable with boys around 23ish, which is exactly what he is acting like. I want a MAN. I DO NOT want a BOY. So, I need to really start to focus on myself even more and just leave him alone. I love my H, I am committed to my M, and I have FAITH that it's G-ds will for him to come home, but there is something shifting in me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I can't think of forever without him. But I don't have to, because then it wouldn't be one day at a time. One second at a time. He really is losing a WINNER and AMAZING woman in me. I don't know if he will ever see it, but she is starting to get a glimpse of it herself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
He really is losing a WINNER and AMAZING woman in me.
I will post this quote to you next time you start doubting yourself.
That's great Queenie, the last two week have been amazing for your personal groth. I am every proud of you. And don't worry, there are still a few of us out there that are not complete jerks, and I am confident you will find someone who will adore you the way you deserve.
I will post this quote to you next time you start doubting yourself.
Please do. I am sure I will need it from time to time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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That's great Queenie, the last two week have been amazing for your personal groth. I am every proud of you. And don't worry, there are still a few of us out there that are not complete jerks, and I am confident you will find someone who will adore you the way you deserve.
I am going to hold you to this one. I really believe that once I am healthy and whole I am meant to be with someone who can love me for me and let me be who I am without reservations.
I have so much life inside of me and so much love to give someone. I just have to wait for G-d to bless me with that perfect someone. I know what I hope for and continue to pray for, but I just have to TRUST G-d on what he is doing. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY, NONE.
You know what I love most....Wearing tight clothes that show off my new figure and even though I still am a little too overweight for it, I am dressing with class and people are amazed at how good I look. That FEELS so GOOD. I NEVER had this feeling in my life before.
when I had gotten down to 140 about 29 years ago, my mother and BF(HUBBY) said, just think what you will look like when you get to 120. That one single statement has stuck with me for my life. It was cruel and took away all that I had worked so hard for, because I immediately started gaining weight back and never looked back.
You know, I never wanted my H to be a certain way. I just wanted him to let me in and love him. What I wanted was the mind games to stop. And now that he isn't around, I don't live with those games on a daily basis and I think it's taken me awhile to understand that's part of what I am missing. Kinda weird isn't it.
And how tall are you. 140 sounds like a real good weight. My WW is at 145 and I think she looks fantastic. She 5'3" tall.
Have you ever read you on a diet? I don't think I ever used any of the recipes in the back but one thing that stuck with me is that weight control is about how you feel and look, not how much you weigh. So if you feel good and look good, don't worry about what the scale says.
I'm 5'3. That weight was 29 years ago. I weight a little over a 100 lbs more than that. I started at 327. Now I can say that with pride. If you know what I mean.
I still need to lose lots more, however I am making healthy choices, exercising and giving it to G-d. Nothing else I can do, but let him create this body. I just am appreciating it and enjoying it more and more.
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Not sure what you meant by the calling WW names...
She is one stupid woman if she lets you go.
And you are welcome.
So I have to ask, what do you suppose WH is doing having my picture in his wallet. He did take out the fancy one of 14 years ago, however. I wonder if he threw it away?
Yes today when I was looking in his wallet I noticed that the fancy picture of me 14 years ago is out of his wallet, but he is carrying around the picture of me with my son that I just gave him.
He has other pictures of this son alone, but weird isn't it that he would have that.
I look at it this way (My little way of hanging on to hope). I can't believe that evne with all the fog babble they give us that there is not a place in their hearts for us. I think that picture will become much more important to him once you go to Plan B.
Ok, I can understand why their comments would have been hurtful. 5.3 at 140lbs is not overweight at based on what my WWs body looks like at that same weight, you probably looked fantastic. But look at the bright side, you have a whole new team supporting YOU and I for one am impressed and proud with the fact that you've lost 80lbs. What is your next target and what are you doing to get there? My thing is running and once it's nice outside basketball.
Here's the article. I don't agree that you are addicted to your husband either. I think that you have felt that you can CONTROL his WAYWARDNESS..but we all have been guilty of that.
I haven't read the article, but I will print it out and read it.
Maybe I am saying it the wrong way.
I am willing to admit that I am POWERLESS over my H, and that my life becomes unmanageable when I try to control him.
I am in the process of truly understanding that a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity.
Made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of G-d as I understood him, so that G-d can do what he is going to do and I won't keep getting in the way.
I think that in many ways, and I am just admitting it, recognizing it and changing it to how G-d wants it to be. But I think that I tried to control not just his WAYWARDNESS, but his LIFE as well. By DJ of thinking that I know what's best for him, or what he should be doing, etc. I think that I am truly beginning to ACCEPT who my H is, but more importantly who he was all along.
I think I am being honest when I say I don't want to control him, just have him let me in as to WHO HIM IS, so I can know that person and love that person for all those qualities.
To some extent I have a tiny understanding of what you are saying and I think I am saying the same thing only a different way. So if you both could help me see if I am not clearly understanding what you mean, please let me know.
Ok, I can understand why their comments would have been hurtful. 5.3 at 140lbs is not overweight at based on what my WWs body looks like at that same weight, you probably looked fantastic.
I did look awesome and I felt awesome. What it accomplished was destroying my self-esteem in a mind game way. That as a pattern that was establishing itself into my life more and more and I become complacent and acceptant of the horrible way people treated me or I allowed them to treat me.
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But look at the bright side, you have a whole new team supporting YOU and I for one am impressed and proud with the fact that you've lost 80lbs.
And I am really appreciative of this because I have hit a total plateau and don't want to lose the momentum.
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What is your next target and what are you doing to get there? My thing is running and once it's nice outside basketball.
My next target weight is 200 and I am eating as healthy as I can, but that doesn't seem to be enough right now. I exercise when I can. So I am taking suggestions on how I can develop my food plan into losing again.
But I think that I tried to control not just his WAYWARDNESS, but his LIFE as well. By DJ of thinking that I know what's best for him, or what he should be doing, etc.
So I am equating that to an ADDICTION because I did it all the time or most of the time. I fed something inside of me that I need to get rid of so to speak. And I have to STOP IT and I am working on the steps as a way to STOP IT.
I had this ADDICTION but not just with MY HUSBAND..but with everybody and everything...
I would imagine I don't just have it with my H, but many others in my life. This one person just seems to be the strongest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I to an an ADULT CHILD OF ALCOHOLICS...both my parents not to mention it went back as far on my dad's side and his parents.
I don't think I really have ever TRULT address this, so it's MY TIME.
This is my BATTLE with G-d. G-d is my savior and I am going to LEARN how to COMPLETELY SURRENDER TO HIM. There is NO OTHER WAY.
Hi Chai, I miss you. I'm doing better. Learning lots and needing to keep moving forward.
I need to put some concentrated effort into my Plan B letter so that is ready to go. I want to get my legal papers to the lawyer today if he is open and have that move forward.
It's an amazingly beautiful day here and I was going to call WH and see if he wanted to meet for a walk? Maybe play frisbee?
Actually I am going to pray to G-d and let him show me how I completely surrender. I think I am doing it, BUT evidently not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It's so interesting. When I did my timeline two weeks ago, I realized that I learned at a very early age it was MY JOB TO FIX things. And I had all the LOVE to give, but no one wanted it.
My job I think is learning to let things BE as G-d wants it so HE CAN FIX IT, and let G-d direct me to who it is HE WANTS ME TO LOVE.
I have to stop equating love with fixing. I intellectually get it, but as the saying goes. It's not in sync with mind and spirit. At least not at this moment.
Mainly FOCUS on YOURSELF...it's between YOU and GOD...no more trying to analyse him or trying to figure him out..
Ok, but this will be a learning lesson. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Get the stick ready, or maybe not. Maybe I am in a good enough place where I get it.
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You DOUBT and QUESTION yourself too much....
This is ALL I know to do. Because this is what I LIVED MY ENTIRE life. I'm not blaming anyone but me because I didn't know how to take responsibility and stop it. So I just need to learn to do that.
Well than other than my focus, nothing really changes. I don't get to talk about what HE IS DOING.
My plan is to win him back. So, I proceed with Plan A for a little longer. I am heading out in an hour for coffee with a friend. I am going to call WH and invite him on a walk.
I am planning to get the papers up to the lawyer today, he wasn't there Friday and move forward with that. When I get home later on, I will get my PBL done and post it for you to read. I have the notes of what Steve says, but do you have any thoughts on what would be good to keep in mind as I write it?
When did you truly get this notion of not controlling him or anayone else for that matter? Was it gradual or something that happened to get you to truly understand what you were facing about yourself?
When did you truly get this notion of not controlling him or anayone else for that matter? Was it gradual or something that happened to get you to truly understand what you were facing about yourself?
The AFFAIR..my H LEAVING ME..
Had to finally say, OK, LORD, I GET IT..I TRULY CAN'T CONTROL the outcome of TRAGEDY...even though, in growing up, I was under the false assumption that I was keeping my parents from killing themselves and each other...a SAD TRUTH..but you asked...
I only want the truth. You have what I want, a recovered M. How you got there is your walk and I want to understand it and treasure it for your blessing and my HOPE.
I put a rubber band on my wrist and am snapping it everytime I feel that cringe, or desire to fix WH or say a DJ that I know better than him. I think I am going to hurt for a little while. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am willing to admit that I am POWERLESS over my H, and that my life becomes unmanageable when I try to control him.
I'm just pointing out a small flaw. Your life is not unmanageable when you try to control him. Your life is unmanageable when you don't surrender.......This is the heart of step one. COMPLETE Surrender, raising up the white flag and dropping your weapons. Complete unconditional surrender.
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I am in the process of truly understanding that a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity.
Step two says "came to believe"... not came to understand! The furthest distance God has to travel in our lives is about 18 inches. That is the distance between our head and our heart. We keep trying to understand what we are holding onto instead of believing that God can handle it all if we let go.
Complete Surrender + Believing God Can = Sanity Once you are here you will make a decision to let go - step three ---- or you will repeat the insanity over and over and over and over and over and over, etc. (a process I'm way to familiar with)sigh....
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Made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of G-d as I understood him, so that G-d can do what he is going to do and I won't keep getting in the way.
This is called letting go and letting God....if we are past the insanity then all things become possible. Why? Because God is God and we are not!
I was just reading your comment on SL's thread about holding hands.
This is just what it is. My H and I ALWAYS TOLD EACH OTHER WE LOVED EACH OTHER DAILY. We talked on the phone and always hung up saying that. We kissed when we saw each other and most times when we said goodbye.
And we HELD HANDS all the time. We sat on the couch next to each other ALL THE TIME, that is until the A.
Hmmm.. Just an observation....nothing more. Accept I know how much I MISS IT..
I called H about two hours ago and invited him to meet me at a park and go walking with me. He said, Oh this won't work for me. I said, not a problem. I am doing to be there at 2:30 and you are welcome to join me if your plans change.
Then I TM telling him that I discovered this salmon hatchery route that I think he might enjoy and wanted to share it with him. I told him I was looking forward to him joining me if it worked out.
It is a gorgeous day here for a walk. I hope he comes, and if he doesn't. It's still a magnificent day. This is why we put up with all the rain.... For days just like this.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yes we did. There was SO MUCH that WAS GREAT about US.
I have one question. When you surrendered to G-d, did you surrender your husband completely knowing it could be for the rest of your life and you were moving on to build your own life?
YES in answer to your question..but I had FAITH..that whatever would happen would be TO THE GOOD..and to the GLORY of GOD..I had FAITH that GOD was working it out for me.
I was just reading your comment on SL's thread about holding hands.
This is just what it is. My H and I ALWAYS TOLD EACH OTHER WE LOVED EACH OTHER DAILY. We talked on the phone and always hung up saying that. We kissed when we saw each other and most times when we said goodbye.
And we HELD HANDS all the time. We sat on the couch next to each other ALL THE TIME, that is until the A.
Hmmm.. Just an observation....nothing more. Accept I know how much I MISS IT..
SG,
My FWS and I were the same way. Add weekly date night for the last 12 years to that list, too.
YES in answer to your question..but I had FAITH..that whatever would happen would be TO THE GOOD..and to the GLORY of GOD..I had FAITH that GOD was working it out for me.
Amen, sista!
I think that's what I've been trying to get across in my previous posts...maybe not so clearly.
So tonight at the meeting, in light of what tst said about talking to a mixed group, I realized that I actually am very appealing in a crowd of people. I am vivacious, much happier these days, dressing up as a GODDESS, losing weight, and looking sharp with my make up. People are noticing that I seem happier and more peaceful. So I do need to be careful that guys don't start paying attention to me, because I AM so vulnerable and lonely.
SG,
I am glad you see the reality of this. From my own personal experience, you are vulnerable the most when you think you are not vulnerable.
If you kept up with my story (I think you did), you'll remember that I did get involved with someone only weeks before my husband returned home a broken man.
I wish I could say that I kept the faith until the very end...but I cannot.
But one thing does not change...God is still good!
I am glad you see the reality of this. From my own personal experience, you are vulnerable the most when you think you are not vulnerable.
If you kept up with my story (I think you did), you'll remember that I did get involved with someone only weeks before my husband returned home a broken man.
Yes, I totally remember this.
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I wish I could say that I kept the faith until the very end...but I cannot.
What happened to you that you gave up faith.
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But one thing does not change...God is still good!
I'm home from my walk. WH didn't show up, but I am talking to him online right now.
What a piece he is sometimes. Evidently his work scheduld has changed and so when I was asking to meet him, he knew that he wouldn't be off at that time. I asked why he didn't mention the new time to me, I would have waited for met him later. NOTHING.
AH the WH is back in full ugliness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Here we are talking about stuff and out of nowhere he wants to know how the pictures came out yesterday at his lacrosse practice. Unbelievable how selfish and self centered they truly are.
I kept the conversation going as long as possible, but when he was DONE with me he said have a good night. I said yep, you too. And then I said, I miss you lots. rather I miss my H lots. Imagine that, no response....
Then I said just so you know, the walk would have been way nicer with you, Imagine that, no response. Now he isn't talking. LOL
As for the walk, it was amazing and healing. I walked with G-d and surrendered to him. I talked to him about my H and how much I loved him and asked him to keep the pressure on him but take care of him in the end. I just wanted him to come back to G-d. I was crying so hard, but in a good way. I took lots and lots of pictures... and then on the way back I picked up a stick and threw it away. I threw my husband to G-d and he is where is NEEDS to be. There is nothing more for me to do.
I can't say that it isn't sad or I don't hurt. I'm really scared because I need G-d MORE than ever to SHOW ME MY NEW LIFE. But I'm ready to go towards it.
I'm glad I got to come home and see the WH. He IS NOT MY H, and I DON'T LIKE HIM AT ALL.
I could use a couple of hugs even know I know this is what NEEDS to be done, it still is so HARD.....
I wish I could say that I kept the faith until the very end...but I cannot.
What happened to you that you gave up faith.
Ah, SG, I was so weary. I still cannot find the words to explain where I have been. We were the couple no one would have believed this would happen to. We were doing everything right. We had the "perfect" family, not just in public...but at home...we were the real deal.
So what happened?
For us, I truly believe we were under a serious spiritual attack. I was holding tight to the Lord and completely surrending to Him and trusting in Him.
But as God really started slamming tst and working on him, I feel satan started whispering in my ear. He had targeted our family for destruction. He worked on tst until God took him back, then he turned his focus on me. Now that we are back together and have started piecing the timeline, it is creepy. For those who don't believe in the spiritual realm, this will sound nuts. That's OK. I don't need to convince anyone. I've lived it.
When I was talking to my oldest son and telling him that the A would end, his daddy would eventually be devastated by his actions and want to come home, he said to me, "Mom, I don't think it's going to happen."
I don't know why that impacted me so much. But I remember thinking later that night about it. Thinking that maybe I was just living in a fantasy world. My own son had given up. Maybe it was time to face reality.
My perspective at that time changed. I kept thinking, tst had left...twice...and had no intention of returning. I FINALLY believed that what we had...or what I thought we had...was just a lie. I finally believed the WS fog babble that he had been feeding me. I even remember saying to myself, "Fine, you win, I believe you...you never loved me."
Satan's whispers, my son's words, and then a man who had been through the same pain I was going through started filling my ENs in a major way. And POOF! I was quickly swept away.
OM had said he didn't want to get in the way of reconciliation, but I assured him it was not possible because I was sure that tst was not going to come out of the fog for years. Sadly, the whole time I was meeting with OM, God was bringing tst out of the fog. This timeframe was all less than a month before tst's return home...broken, remorseful, devastated, and desperately in love with me again.
Just days before I started getting emotionally involved with OM, I would have told you it wasn't possible. I had no interest in being involved with someone, SG.
I have been popping in now and then today-but haven't had much time to actually post. It was too beautiful to stay inside. Plus, the full moon made my evening walk with my dog magical.
I was just thinking about you surrendering your WH to God and I was reminded of the story of Abraham and Isaac in Genesis when Abraham willingly prepares to sacrifice his only child-the one God promised him and gave him in his old age-in his obedience to God. It was his response that made me think of you
"But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
"Here I am" he replied. (Gen 22:11).
I love that response. "Here I am." I think that's where you are, saying "Here I am Lord" and right now, that's the best place to be. Waiting for God to be the one who does the rest. Who knows what He will provide....
You are an inspiration.
PS Are you going to wear the new dress tomorrow? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm trusting you, but I am walking in FAITH with G-d. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks TMTS, Keep that coming guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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See how dangerous it all is?
I absolutely do. I too believe we are under a spiritual attack. Satan is fighting his hardest for my H's soul and has it right now. I am NO MATCH for HIM, only G-D can beat him.
I kinda get it, but it's fuzzy. I am still processing, that you gave him away completely and moved on with your life, but you were holding out hope? Tell me how that worked for you?
I guess what I truly am asking is.... I have surrendered to G-d completely and surrendered my H to him as well. There is nothing I can do for him, except love him and pray for him. I am working through my ADDICTION to control and surrendering that to G-d as well. Plus I am moving on with my life as G-d wants me to, but I am still walking in FAITH that H will come home one day. That's ok, right? Or am I still missing something?
It was an absolutely G-d given gorgeous day today and the night, oh my gosh, the moon is awesome in it's clear glory. That's why we put up with the awful weather, for days like this. I have to email you some of the pictures from my walk. G-d was so with me.
You put it into words beautifully. Here I am, G-d. Please just show me the next step. I just have to listen and be still....
This may seem so silly, but I just realized that today is MLK's Birthday. I surrendered my life and my will and my need to control to G-d today on that great man's birthday who fought for so many peoples freedom.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't scared, but I am walking the baby steps right now. I went over to a friends house who is going through the same thing, the same addiction of control and in helping her see what she is doing, reinforced that this was I NEEDED to do.
I'm so tired of trying to control it, how awesome that I can rest and just let G-d show me. I've earned the rest.
As a matter of fact, yes I do believe I am going to wear the new dress. I have nylons and everything to go with it.
I'm so glad we got to see each other. Will do it again during President's Week, ok?
I think all of us who walk this journey with God come to a place where we have our "Isaac" moment-and in giving it up to God, we are then ready to hear Him call to us, and can say "Here I am."
Keep taking those baby steps. "A journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step." Confusius
What a great thing to find your freedom in God on this day.
Have a great week and we will get together Presidents' Day Week-end.
It's been over 12 hours since I surrendered. I actually had a peaceful sleep I think. I'm a littl shaky this morning.
Sadness is a little stronger than it has been. Going to go do a couple of prayers and wear my new dress and get styled up as the Warrior GODDESS that I am.
The notion about how G-d is preparing me for something that I can't imagine is taking hold and giving me strength, like he did with Queen Esther.
{{{{{{{{Good morning everyone}}}}}}}}}}}
I just wanted a hug, so now you all have one. I hope you have a great day..
I have surrendered to G-d completely and surrendered my H to him as well. There is nothing I can do for him, except love him and pray for him. I am working through my ADDICTION to control and surrendering that to G-d as well. Plus I am moving on with my life as G-d wants me to, but I am still walking in FAITH that H will come home one day.
PERFECT!!
YOU ARE SUCH AN INSPIRATION...like a RAY OF SUNSHINE!!
I'm in the mood for some funnies, how about you all?
These are supposedly actual comments made on students' report cards by teachers in the New York City public school system. It may not be true, but the comments are still great.
1. Since my last report, your child has reached rock bottom and has started to dig.
2. I would not allow this student to breed.
3. Your child has delusions of adequacy.
4. Your son is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.
5. Your son sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them.
6. The student has a "full six-pack" but lacks the plastic thing to hold it all together .
7. This child has been worki ng with glue too much.
8. When your daughter's IQ reaches 50, she should sell.
9. The gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn't coming.
10. If this student were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered twice a week.
11. It's impossible to believe the sperm that created this child beat out 1,000,000 others.
12. The wheel is turning but the hamster is definitely dead.
I'm struggling tonight. I went to an AA meeting and it just set my hackles up. About these guys who just freely talk about screwing woman and playing games.
Do the games EVER stop? Is that what my new life gets to look like? And then I took a shower and settled myself down and remembered, I ONLY HAVE TO GET THROUGH TODAY.
Oh gosh, I think I am withdrawing from the urge to control my H. And I am in the process of learning a new life with that one.
UGH.... NO wonder I am shaky. I turned it over and surrendered completely, but it's new and I am restless. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What happens when I want my NEW LIFE to include my H.
Shame on me... G-d is NOT bringing me to this point to give me crap unless I go looking for it. I need to be still and wait for the answers. Walk in nothing but FAITH that there is good right around the corner for me.
I know, keep walking one step at a time and TRUST G-d. He has plans for me... I just need to be still and let the work continue in me. G-d knows the good that exists inside me and if I listen and walk in his will, it WILL BE ok.
I just need to keep asking G-d to show me what my new life is going to look like. I don't know what to want. I need guidance in knowing what his plan is for me.
Just remember to Be still and let God be God in this. Sometimes God doesn't show us His plan right away. He never does anything without a plan, but sometimes we need to just wait for Him to put the people and situations in place for the plan to reveal itself. You are doing great! You have grown sooo much!
Did you dazzle them at work today in your goddess emerald green dress?
Everyone was very complimentary about the new dress. They loved the color and I had eye make up on that matched it almost perfectly.
You are right of course. I just need to be still... Somehow I need to develop a way of helping myself just be in that place. I get caught up in running all around and miss on the be still part.
Well-when I get to that place that I feel like I have to "do" something, I take a walk and talk with God. My dog loves it. (She's a Jack Russell and I don't think they can ever get too much exercise).
I also journal a lot!. It gives me a place to put my thoughts.
And I have homework for my classes. Have you thought more about learning Hebrew? (hint, hint)
Work was crazy today-my teaching partner was sick, so there was a sub. But, the other teacher in our program also wasn't feeling well, so I sent the sub over to his class and taught my class alone today. Subs are in short supply during flu season as I'm sure you know.
Tomorrow I have my class at Western. I have no idea what God has planned for me with this,and sometimes I get impatient, but I am enjoying the process.
SG.. I've just got to tell you that you are doing WONDERFUL.
You are an inspiration to me, and others I'm sure with your faithfulness and walk with God.
Being still and waiting on God's timing is the hardest part of this SO FAR. I've found that it helps me to think of it like this (and yeah.. especially given my recent posts I'm glad I'm revisiting this concept today).. WW is lost right now.. she's made changes in her life, her values, her morals, and her faith that have led her away from God. The farther away she pulls, the worse the consequences will need to be to get her to make the effort to reach out for God's hand and let Him walk her home.
Our prayer for our waywards must be that they are found by God through His grace and mercy.. and led out of the wilderness. Now I -believe- that means that they are led home to us.. but even more importantly.. they need to be led to bow at the feet of the LORD.
Our prayer for our waywards must be that they are found by God through His grace and mercy.. and led out of the wilderness. Now I -believe- that means that they are led home to us.. but even more importantly.. they need to be led to bow at the feet of the LORD.
God hasn't lost the waywards; they have turned their backs on Him. God knows EXACTLY where they are.
IF your WS finds his way back to God and bows at the feet of the Lord by his own free will (not being led), then he will also find his way back to his family.
SG, that may take a decade or more. It may take his whole life. OR he may choose to forever keep his back turned from God. But IF he finds his way back to God, he can't help but find his way back to his family as he reconciles with God.
BUT...you may have moved on, created a new life, and have no place for him any longer.
By accepting that WS may come around next week, next month, next year, the next decade, or never, then you realize that you MUST move on. You have the choice to keep a door unlocked for him to knock on and ASK permission to enter, if he ever comes out of the fog enough to see the door. We just can't leave it WIDE OPEN any longer, otherwise the storms' debris comes flying in and reak havoc.
SG, recently I was sharing with tst that it hurts so badly to know that he was so disgusted by me that he would leave his 5 children just to get away from me. His response to me was that he wasn't trying to get away from me; he was trying to get away from himself.
You see this battle is truly between WS and God. Pray for God to have His way with him. Pray for "whatever it takes".
What happens when I want my NEW LIFE to include my H.
You trust that if God doesn't intervene in that way that He has something better in store for you. In our finite minds we think we know A makes me happy, B makes me sad. God has endless options to bless us in our faithfulness to Him. You cannot yet fathom what He will do with your life...with or without your husband.
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I just need to keep asking G-d to show me what my new life is going to look like. I don't know what to want. I need guidance in knowing what his plan is for me.
Your new life looks like today. Today is your new life. It isn't next year, or five or ten years from now. You are living your new life RIGHT NOW, sweetie.
SG, why do you think you get the know the plans He has for you? He says HE knows the plans He has for you, to prosper you, not to harm you. He DOESN'T then say, and I'm going to tell you all about those plans. Trust Him that He will prosper you but don't expect for God to tell you exactly how.
You are doing this, SG! Look at how much you have survived. You came from the darkest moments of your life, to grow and prosper into this beautiful, confident woman. God is already prospering you, right in the midst of suffering. And He isn't going to walk away from you now.
His response to me was that he wasn't trying to get away from me; he was trying to get away from himself.
This is one of the most insightful things that I have seen on this board. As BS we learn quite quickly here that we must make changes to ourselves, and to see a WS come to the same conclusion about himself is very encouraging.
We need to remember this Queenie, because I think we get caught up in this trap of try to will them back to us, reality and G-d.
What happens when I want my NEW LIFE to include my H.
Shame on me... G-d is NOT bringing me to this point to give me crap unless I go looking for it. I need to be still and wait for the answers. Walk in nothing but FAITH that there is good right around the corner for me.
I know, keep walking one step at a time and TRUST G-d. He has plans for me... I just need to be still and let the work continue in me. G-d knows the good that exists inside me and if I listen and walk in his will, it WILL BE ok.
I just need to keep asking G-d to show me what my new life is going to look like. I don't know what to want. I need guidance in knowing what his plan is for me.
You are giving yourself very good advice here. It's funny how instinctively we know what to do, but we let other people (ie WS) throw us off path. Stay the course, my friend, stay the course.
Tomorrow I have my class at Western. I have no idea what God has planned for me with this, and sometimes I get impatient, but I am enjoying the process.
I am praying to get to this point, enjoying just the day and what today holds for me. The process is when I look back and just know it was good. Does that make sense.
I really have to just focus on today. Just living today as best as I can. Let G-d worry about my tomorrows and what he has planned.
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IF your WS finds his way back to God and bows at the feet of the Lord by his own free will (not being led), then he will also find his way back to his family.
I can pray for this right?
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By accepting that WS may come around next week, next month, next year, the next decade, or never, then you realize that you MUST move on. You have the choice to keep a door unlocked for him to knock on and ASK permission to enter, if he ever comes out of the fog enough to see the door. We just can't leave it WIDE OPEN any longer, otherwise the storms' debris comes flying in and reak havoc.
I intellectually get this and I am really in G-ds hands trusting him, but this registers something inside of me. But then again, if I am just living one day at a time, today probably one second at a time, then worry about something in the future isn't living in my NEW LIFE. So we can discuss that when it happens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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His response to me was that he wasn't trying to get away from me; he was trying to get away from himself.
I COMPLETELY GET THIS. In fact, I remember so clearly as if it was this second G-d talking to me and telling me that my H is miserable in his life and TOTALLY blames me and our M. H believes that this woman is going to make him happy, and the reality is, NO ONE but himself and his RELATIONSHIP with G-d can make him happy. It was that day that G-d let me understand he knew how much I loved my H and that I tried to live his journey and that WAS NOT my place. I tried to play G-d and I know NO RIGHT because I am NOT G-d. And it was that day that I came to truly understand and WALK in FAITH that this was a SPIRITUAL BATTLE between G-d and my H. If there is NOTHING ELSE I KNOW, it is that. And it is SOMETHING he IS going to have to WALK THROUGH HIMSELF.
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You see this battle is truly between WS and God. Pray for God to have His way with him. Pray for "whatever it takes".
I really like this one, because I'm getting lost in what to pray for. Thanks, SMB and TST
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You trust that if God doesn't intervene in that way that He has something better in store for you. In our finite minds we think we know A makes me happy, B makes me sad. God has endless options to bless us in our faithfulness to Him. You cannot yet fathom what He will do with your life...with or without your husband.
I just realized that I unconditionally trusted a MAN, my H to take care of me all the days of my LIFE. That was WRONG, it was G-d that I NEED to TRUST UNCONDITIONALLY to take care of me all the days of my life. I just have to understand I gave something precious away to a man and it was G-d that deserved it all along. He is the ONE who will take care of me, I just have to surrender daily to WHAT that is. So easier said than done. BUT I CAN pray for the WILLINGNESS.
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And He isn't going to walk away from you now.
I know.
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You are giving yourself very good advice here. It's funny how instinctively we know what to do, but we let other people (ie WS) throw us off path. Stay the course, my friend, stay the course.
G-d has FAITH in ME, that I WILL, so I should have FAITH in him for what he has planned.
One of the things that I loved most about being M is the time when you just share, laugh, talk, hold and comfort. I JUST MISS IT. I think somehow I need to find a way to have G-d become this and stop relying on someone else to be that.
Or isn't that what a relationship is all about? Here is where I get confused and TODAY, I don't need to go there.
I hope everyone is having a good day, you have all given me lots to think about and work through. Thank goodness G-d is right here to help me work through the questions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My GROWTH was in LEARNING that I HAVE MYSELF! I don't need another person to make me WHOLE. My H ENHANCES who I am and my life but I don't NEED him to SURVIVE...like I used to...when he left me, I felt like I couldn't possibly live without him..didn't know how..like you say, he had become MY GOD..I even had put him up on a pedestal..which HE HATED..I think that's partly why he took that walk on the WILD SIDE..because of my overly high expectations of him...
LEARN TO LOVE AND VALUE YOURSELF..YOU, a CHILD OF GOD...YOU, a WOMAN who is SPECIAL and WORTHY..
Let HIM be IN CHARGE of YOUR DESTINY..
YOU are to BE STILL and learn to LOVE and APPRECIATE who YOU ARE...
I do know this. I really do. I never needed him because he made me whole. I wanted him because he enhanced me as you say.
When he left, what I found was that I was dependent on him for way more than I realized. Financially, emotionally, security, etc. Not because he made me WHOLE. I wanted him to make me happy, and THAT WAS NOT HIS JOB. That was mine to seek from G-d.
What I didn't know what that I was a WONDERFUL person with or without him. That is what I am in the processing of learning.
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LEARN TO LOVE AND VALUE YOURSELF..YOU, a CHILD OF GOD...YOU, a WOMAN who is SPECIAL and WORTHY..
This is DEFINTELY what I am learning.
It's funny, I find that daily who I AM is growing stronger and stronger. I feel life again inside of me where there wasn't any. The way I am dressing, walking etc. is becoming someone who exudes life and love. The person I really am deep inside. I actually feel free in so many ways from that torment, sadness and confusion.
As you say, I just need to be still... and continue to learn to love what G-d is creating in me. The wanting the enhancement of a mate will just be in G-ds time and I don't need to worry about that today, do I?
My GROWTH was in LEARNING that I HAVE MYSELF! I don't need another person to make me WHOLE. My H ENHANCES who I am and my life but I don't NEED him to SURVIVE...like I used to...when he left me, I felt like I couldn't possibly live without him..didn't know how..like you say, he had become MY GOD..I even had put him up on a pedestal..which HE HATED..I think that's partly why he took that walk on the WILD SIDE..because of my overly high expectations of him...
LEARN TO LOVE AND VALUE YOURSELF..YOU, a CHILD OF GOD...YOU, a WOMAN who is SPECIAL and WORTHY..
Let HIM be IN CHARGE of YOUR DESTINY..
YOU are to BE STILL and learn to LOVE and APPRECIATE who YOU ARE...
just BE YOU
Amen, Amen, Amen!!
I also thought for a minute that I couldn't live without him, boy was I wrong. Now I'm getting to do what I've always wanted to do for this family to make our lives better. And that's the TRUTH, your WS doesn't make you complete or whole, God does. Your WS just compliments you.
I also made my husband my God. God commands for us not to make anyone else or anything else our God. He is the only God. You can't serve two masters. I believe God has helped me to wake up to set my priorities straight. And that is putting Him FIRST, b/c I always put my WH first...and God did not like that, and I believe He did what He did to wake me up and let me now that He is my ONLY God.
When you put Him FIRST, everything else will fall into place. When you put Him FIRST and praise him (telling him Thank You throughout the day, whether you're going through good times or bad) He WILL change your circumstance. I must admit, I know sometimes it's hard to see but the word tells us to walk by faith and not by sight.
SG, why do you think you get the know the plans He has for you? He says HE knows the plans He has for you, to prosper you, not to harm you. He DOESN'T then say, and I'm going to tell you all about those plans. Trust Him that He will prosper you but don't expect for God to tell you exactly how.
OMGoodness, SMB that was great. You're right on that, too! He sure doesn't say that He will tell us how He's going to prosper us. He just lets us know that He WILL. That's where our faith comes in. Oh Thank You Jesus...that was great.
How do you know that you are putting G-d first. I think I am by talking to him all the time, asking him for guidance.
You know what, maybe it will just happen and I won't even realize it when it does. It will become a part of me like breathing.
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SG, why do you think you get the know the plans He has for you? He says HE knows the plans He has for you, to prosper you, not to harm you. He DOESN'T then say, and I'm going to tell you all about those plans. Trust Him that He will prosper you but don't expect for God to tell you exactly how.
I agree with you My1st. Actually I never thought of it like this. Something I NEED to remember and just keep on walking.
SMB, that was a very powerful statement that you said. I never thought of it like that. Thanks....
FAITH..... BE STILL.... And LIVE TODAY for the day it IS. Which I might add is a pretty awesome one. The sun is out, and it's the bluest skies you ever saw are in Seattle... LOL
You are giving it to God when you pray..."I want what You want."
When asked your opinion say, "I want what He wants..."
When trying to decide, "What do You want?"
When seeking direction "What would He have me do?"
When asked what was the most important of all the commandments, Jesus answered that it was this..."To love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strength." and then he added that the second most important was "To love your neighbor as yourself."
After that, you can pretty much do what ever you want.
Psalm 42:1&2As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God?
42:11 Why so downcast, O my soul? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my savior and my God."
Psalm 33:4&5 For the word of the Lord is right and true; He is faithful in all He does. The Lord loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of His unfailing love.
Did you understand that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Actually what it is saying is....
"And you shall love...", contain the commands to love God with all one's heart, soul, and might; to remember all commandments and "teach them diligently to your children and speak of them when you sit down and when you walk, when you lie down and when you rise" (Deut 6:7); to recite the words of God when retiring or rising; to bind those words "on thy arm and thy head" (interpreted as tefillin), and to inscribe them on the door-posts of your house and on your gates (referring to mezuzah).
I really really appreciate your scripture strength. Remember I am signed up daily for it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And it begins with Deut 6:4...Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One... Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohenu Adonai Ehad. (Or Echad depending on whose pronunciation you're using.)
It really looks cool in Hebrew characters...But, alas, this site does not support it.
Or koine Greek either...
For anybody that wants to see what it looks like in Hebrew, see Bible Gateway
BTW, the version I most often use to quote from is the NIV and reads like this...
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
A friend of mine is a rabbi, SG. And another friend is about to go to Israel to spend a year there working with The Friends of Israel organization.
I considered studying Hebrew at one time but decided that I could look things up and see what they said rather than reading it for myself. I did study koine Greek for a couple years and discovered that many of my translations were accurate enough to read in English rather than having to do my own translation. I just wasn't going to take anyone's word for what it said. If I have a question about a passage, I go to Vine's or other sources now instead of digging that far. And I can always call "Rabbi Ron" if I get stuck...
SG, Draw strength from the Lord and from His mighty power.
Remember you are the daughter of the King!
Press on and you will get through this. Look at how far you've come already. I have learned a lot by reading your awesome posts and your thread. You are one of my heros on this board.
Endurance produces strength; and strength proven character. You've got all this by the grace of God!
Seeing the glory of the Lord on someone's face is so attractive and I can't even imagine your beauty inside and out.
Trust in knowing that whatever plan that God has for you, or for any of us, it is more wonderful and bountiful than anything we could ever come up with on our own!
Has different religions always interested you or do you feel a pull towards this?
Oh Free, I am NO hero. Not when I have SO MUCH to still learn and walk through.
Right now, all I have is the Lord to show me the path.
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Trust in knowing that whatever plan that God has for you, or for any of us, it is more wonderful and bountiful than anything we could ever come up with on our own!
This is what I am hanging onto.
Oh Mimi, You are gone by now.... I'm going to miss you and hope you have a great trip. I wonder where you are going? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Something very weird has been happening the last few days. For years my H would say we didn't have a conversation when I believed we did. Or he would say he told me something when I did't remember. I always took it as I was wrong.
Two days ago, my son and I had an interaction where I gave him a set of instructions. He heard it differently, and got very frustrated with me when he showed up at work and told me I didn't say that. I just apologized and without questioning it, said it was my fault.
Then yesterday, my boss was confronting me about something she has specifically given me permission to do about two months ago. One of my co-workers heard the conversation. And then yet again, I had a conversation with my boss where we arranged a meeting for this morning. I specifically asked her if she wanted it on her calendard, she said no. There were witnesses to the conversation. My B was late this morning and when I commented that we had that meeting, she said the conversation never took place.
I have NO IDEA, what this is about. But I lived in this insanity and just assumed that I was always wrong and took the blame. Very clearly I was not AT FAULT.
Any thoughts. I feel like my life was a gaslight and I am just getting a clue that all those years I thought I was crazy or stupid, wasn't true.
I am just putting out there that it's one of those moments. I don't really have the days anymore, just moments.
When I think of them physically together and it kills me inside. When I think of how he just threw me away like garbage. It hurts.
When I listen to how much pain is in my children's heart from their words to their writings on myspace I want to scream at the one person I should be able to tell anything to.
I have FAITH it will be ok. I have FAITH there is a plan better than I can even imagine.
I just need to get this pain out and let you all know how much I miss you today and hope you are doing well. I feel alone out here, and not sure why.
But then I remember what you have all taught me. And seeking G-d I am, with all my heart and soul for his love and guidance. I just want to be held right now.
Two days ago, my son and I had an interaction where I gave him a set of instructions. He heard it differently, and got very frustrated with me when he showed up at work and told me I didn't say that. I just apologized and without questioning it, said it was my fault.
Maybe it's not a matter of right or wrong, but about becoming more CLEAR in your daily interactions, being proactive. Unless it's disrespectful, intead of ASKING if you can put something on a calendar, be proactive and then INFORM your boss that you've scheduled the time for the meeting on a calendar with a reminder.
Looking into the past to correct these problems isn't, IMO, the best place to start. Look at your interactions DAILY, and see where you can improve. You CANNOT improve others hearing problems or perceptions, but you can be CLEAR in your interactions.
Hope this helps in some little way.
I hear that you have a moment of struggle to deal with. It will pass...
Maybe it's not a matter of right or wrong, but about becoming more CLEAR in your daily interactions, being proactive.
I think this is a wonderful thought. Thanks.
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Looking into the past to correct these problems isn't, IMO, the best place to start. Look at your interactions DAILY, and see where you can improve. You CANNOT improve others hearing problems or perceptions, but you can be CLEAR in your interactions.
This is a great idea. Actually what this comment brings up for me is a G-d moment. It's giving me a new way of living my new life and correcting those things in the past which were frusrating to me and caused problems.
I wish having faith meant the pain would go away, but it doesn't.
We all have moments like this. I know you already know that. Hang in there.
I am, and that's why I am posting, because I am not letting the pain grab hold of me.
No, it doesn't make the pain go away, it just give me the OPPORTUNITY to ask G-d for help and watch our FAITH grow deeper. Because just a week ago, when I had those thoughts, it darn near crippled me for hours. Now, I just accept it for what it is... and let G-d hold me.
Plus I come here and want to be with all of you. The recipe for success = G-d, MB and willing to go to any lengths to change and learn.
Whenever I have been down, and posted, I was flooded with advice, with jokes, with whatever I needed at the time to climb the rocks in my path.
I would also find threads that helped to either give me hope, or to laugh.
I know we're supposed to be helping marriages, but I find it helpful when people joke and talk about REGULAR life, and it's many wonders. Even if I'm only distracted for a moment, it's a moment away from whatever is tormenting me, and gives me time to build strength, AND HOPE, that I, too, will be posting about REGULAR life again, instead of infidelity and it's many gifts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Lately, it's been the Goddess thread, and minor stuff on my own thread, here and there.
When I was in Plan B, we had a big thread going for those in Plan B or in Plan a heading toward Plan B. We called ourselves the Killer Bee's. If you look up old posts from the poster Chrisner, you will usually find some humor, or be blasted by it. HE's a funny dude, and has survived his Plan A, Plan B, and D.
HUmor helps me a lot, even if it is poking at infidelity. THe main thing is that I don't ever feel ALONE; there is a brotherhood that I can go to that can swat me when I need it or lift me up when I'm down.
HUmor helps me a lot, even if it is poking at infidelity. THe main thing is that I don't ever feel ALONE; there is a brotherhood that I can go to that can swat me when I need it or lift me up when I'm down.
Humor was the one thing I lost in the beginning. I have found it again, thank G-d. Without it I am sunk.
You are so right. This site has saved my life, not in place of G-d, but how so many kept steering me to G-d and believing in me when you didn't know me. That's what is most amazing, you know.
I really appreciate you TMTS. Thanks for keeping this in front of me. I really need to see it.
I have a phone counseling appt in a few minutes and seem really weird about it. Not with the Harleys, but with the company who wrote 31 reason to NOT have an affair.
You are giving it to God when you pray..."I want what You want."
When asked your opinion say, "I want what He wants..."
When trying to decide, "What do You want?"
When seeking direction "What would He have me do?"
When asked what was the most important of all the commandments, Jesus answered that it was this..."To love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strength." and then he added that the second most important was "To love your neighbor as yourself."
After that, you can pretty much do what ever you want.
Psalm 42:1&2As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God?
42:11 Why so downcast, O my soul? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my savior and my God."
Psalm 33:4&5 For the word of the Lord is right and true; He is faithful in all He does. The Lord loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of His unfailing love.
Yup, that's what I mean. Also praise Him in everything and for everything.
Continue to Walk In Love-What is Love?? God is love. When you obey God's commandments, not just the 10 commandments and living for Him and walking in His ways, that's also putting Him first. That's living a Godly life. Do it and watch your circumstances change for the best! What are God's ways, how does He think?? Read the word daily and you will know.
Continue to Walk In Love-What is Love?? God is love. When you obey God's commandments, not just the 10 commandments and living for Him and walking in His ways, that's also putting Him first. That's living a Godly life. Do it and watch your circumstances change for the best! What are God's ways, how does He think?? Read the word daily and you will know.
Did you know that in Judaism there are 613 commandmants or Oral law.
I have a lot to learn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Oh gosh, whatever God commands is good, it's for our good. So if it's 613 you have to learn then so be it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
The pain is real and there is nothing wrong with achnowleging it and letting it out. No one here will ever think any less of you. You are the WARRIOR QUEEN to us and have forged a place in all of our hearts. Look at the past posts on your thread...that is love, and it's real.
You are strong, you are a WARRIOR, you are a GODDESS!!!
You are strong, you are a WARRIOR, you are a GODDESS!!!
I just would like a little respite from the pain. I am looking forward to Plan B. I think this is where the heart and mind become in sync.....
Oh TMTS, how I love my H. And how I hurt knowing that there is NOTHING I can do for him. But move on and live a new life. I am having to do something that goes against everything I believe, and yet it's what G-d is telling me to do.
I'm tired of crying today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hey, I didn't know Elvis was your daddy! (Bad attempt at humor.)
TMTS, Silly goose!
SG, you are doing the best thing possible which is to "Let Go and Let God". I'm having a rough day so we can lean on each other! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm finally catching up from a busy day and just now getting around to your question you asked...
I have not been interested in a lot of religions, but found myself in group of Christians that included a few people who were messianic Jews. They held to their Jewish faith but at the same time believed that Yeshua (in English we call him Jesus) is Messiah. They are basically BOTH Jewish AND Christian.
Through these friends I attended worship at a Messianic Jewish congregation a few times and since Yeshua was in fact a Jew and the basis for all that is taught in the New Testament is found in the Old Testament, I began to study it with a different perspective than many of my other friends who grew up in a strictly Christian tradition.
When I was a teenager I found myself questioning some of what I had been taught. As I began to read the Bible in earnest, I found that some of what was passing for doctrine seemed to draw more from tradition than from what the book itself taught. As I got older, I took two years of koine Greek solely for the purpose of finding out for myself what older manuscripts said in various places. It was around this time I met these Jewish friends who began to teach me the context of what I was reading that had eluded me being raised in a Baptist church.
The more I studied, the more I found that historical and cultural context gives meaning to things that when read in English simply did not mean the same things. Once I discovered that I could read the research of other people to arrive at the same place without having to actually read Hebrew and Greek, I began to seek more in the way of Bible commentaries and the like and some of those were rabbinical manuscripts.
I guess what I am trying to say in my usual long winded manner is that I don't merely read the Bible, I try to study it. I attempt to learn not only what the words and ideas mean to us today, but what they meant to those to whom they were written.
My friend the associate rabbi is in fact a member of the messianic Jewish congregation I mentioned and he and I have been friends for many years. I stood up for his wedding when he remarried his wife after they had been divorce for many years. Their youngest child was almost 16 when they remarried and they had divorced before she was 2.
I have learned to read a bit of Hebrew over the years, but never really set about trying to learn it fully, but I do sing a few songs and Psalms from time to time. One of my favorites BTW, is Psalm 133, which I can sing in Hebrew, though I try not to do it as a solo, since I am not that cruel...I did teach it to my Sunday school class a few years ago (6-10 year old kids) and they actually sang it one morning in church for the entire congregation. Their parents were impressed as most didn't know their kids had learned a song in Hebrew before that morning.
So in answer, I am not interested in "other religions" as much as I am a student of the Bible. And one thing you and I have in common is we both believe whole heartedly in Deut 6:4...The Lord our God is One God...
Now you know too why I have been reluctant to tell you as much about New Testament stuff, because I would not want to cause you to question YOUR faith, but at the same time I know that Jesus (Yeshua) was sent to give God's grace to not only the gentiles, but to the Jews as well.
To me, the bible begins as an explanation that God was the Creator of all that there is or ever will be. He created Man (the Hebrew is the word from which we get Adam) and made for him a Woman (because she came from Man and not from the dust of the earth). Together, they chose to disobey God and death and suffering entered the world. And most importantly, the relationship between them and God was broken. The rest of the Bible is to me the story of God providing a way for that relationship to be restored. And for me that way is provided by the messiah, who I believe to be Yeshua or Jesus.
And that's about all I have time for so I'll leave it at that.
I guess what I am trying to say in my usual long winded manner is that I don't merely read the Bible, I try to study it. I attempt to learn not only what the words and ideas mean to us today, but what they meant to those to whom they were written.
One of the things that makes me an outcast with my temple is that I too look for the original ideas and meanings of what was written. Not just put in what I think.
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My friend the associate rabbi is in fact a member of the messianic Jewish congregation I mentioned and he and I have been friends for many years. I stood up for his wedding when he remarried his wife after they had been divorce for many years. Their youngest child was almost 16 when they remarried and they had divorced before she was 2.
In a weird way, this gives me hope for my WH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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So in answer, I am not interested in "other religions" as much as I am a student of the Bible. And one thing you and I have in common is we both believe whole heartedly in Deut 6:4...The Lord our God is One God...
Yes we do. I want to be a student and server to G-d. I just have to be still and find out what his plans are for me. Some days I feel so compelled to become a rabbi it's weird and then other days.... I have ALWAYS had this NEED and DESIRE to walk strong with G-d. How lucky for me to have it happen just as the most devastating thing in my life happened. But then again, I think G-d knew I would reach for him and grab on with all my heart and FAITH. I think G-d truly knows what he has in me and is proud of me thus far. At least I hope so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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And most importantly, the relationship between them and God was broken. The rest of the Bible is to me the story of God providing a way for that relationship to be restored.
I never thought of it that way. I am sure I have said this, but do you know what the OW's name is - Eve. Everyday WH goes home to the end fo the road to be with temptation. I am living my life to restore my relationship with G-d, because Psalm 23 was written about me. He MADE me lie down in green pastures to restore my soul and my relationship with him. How lucky that he CARED that much and he knew I was HURTING IN MY SOUL.
You always have such a way of helping me see the blessings. Thanks..
((((((SG))))) I know this hurts, but give the hurt to God.. He will lift it from you if you only ask Him to and know that what you ask will be accomplished.
Mark.. THANK YOU so much for your testimony, support, scripture, and example here on this thread and others. You too are a great inspiration here.
If there's one thing I think most all of us can agree on with regards to Jesus, is the message that God is Love.. Being here.. fighting for your marriage.. and believing in God for the victory is a beautiful testimony of THAT LOVE which is God in ourselves and in our marriages. If God brings no greater good out of our suffering than to be an example, a witness, and testimony of He who is THAT LOVE..
Spill with the phone call. Let me guess someone on the other end suggested you should have no hope...
Not true you know. Even if WH doesn't come home, you can count on God to give you more than you ever imagined possible.
As another refresher...the word "comfort" comes from two word. The first means "with" or "from a place of" and any piano player knows what the word "forte" means...It means "strength" or "power." So God's comfort is Him giving us His strength and power to get us through...
Just like He used his power to separate the sea. Dayenu!
And once He gives you what He has planned for you...It will have been enough!
Spill with the phone call. Let me guess someone on the other end suggested you should have no hope..
Yep.
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And once He gives you what He has planned for you...It will have been enough!
It is truly amazing how the story of Exodus repeats itself over and over again in my life. From all three of my children's names to Pharoah's (WH) hardened heart, to the plagues that he is about to feel from Plan B. Pharoah - let my H go.....
Pesach was always my most favorite holiday because is symbolized so much from FAITH to FREEDOM. Right after Purim, guess what holiday is next?
TMTS, I posted over on yours. I am sorry I wasn't more aroud tonight. I was being a mom, cooking dinner, then went to an AA meeting to try and get out of this yuk. It actually worked. I called a good friend who I miss, but just can't be around. It was good to hear her voice, she just is SO MAD at WH because he was going to be Prez of our temple and she would have been able to be done.
Then I went shopping at Wally Mart for a ew phone and talked to DD. She is struggling so hard right now. Though she is the oldest he was the closet to her dad and she is the one who sees the awful changes and it's killing her. It's so hard because I can't fix this. UGH......
Yes, once he gives me what he has planned..... It will have been enough...
Spill with the phone call. Let me guess someone on the other end suggested you should have no hope...
Not true you know. Even if WH doesn't come home, you can count on God to give you more than you ever imagined possible.
As another refresher...the word "comfort" comes from two word. The first means "with" or "from a place of" and any piano player knows what the word "forte" means...It means "strength" or "power." So God's comfort is Him giving us His strength and power to get us through...
Just like He used his power to separate the sea. Dayenu!
And once He gives you what He has planned for you...It will have been enough!
Mark
That's true. It will be your WH's loss, not yours. God will give you double for your troubles. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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I'm tired of crying today.
((((skinsgal)))
It's good to cry. Like you said..it does feel like God is cleansing your soul, doesn't it? Continue to work on you. I didn't cry a lot when I found out..I actually started crying more frequently almost every other day since the beginning of this past Dec. But I look in the mirror I see a different person I see someone who has taken her life and heart back.
and I feel pretty good that I am going after my calling and giving my babies a better life.
You have value and worth...your WH is missing out, not you. Keep your head up, this is not the end, it's the beginning.
Someone told me that a while back...didn't know what it meant but I do now.
This is your beginning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm so happy and proud of you My1st. I think you are so wonderful and strong. To be doing this with babies, has to be unbelievably hard. Your babies are very lucky to have you in their life.
I was strong when before I met and when I met my WH. Then I became so dependent on him...I put him first and forgot about me. I was begging him to take me back. Now it's a different story. He will be the one begging and pleading.
I give all credit to God. Times when I should've had a nervous breakdown, I didn't b/c God kept me. If you read my story you can do nothing but feel sorry for me b/c of what has happened. Last time I spoke w/my WH he told me I was STUPID, told me I am the dumbest woman he's ever known...but he was really talking about himself..he was transferring his guilt and insecurity on me.
I believe it's Believer's thread about her ExWH visiting her and she mentions that she lost respect for her him. I lost some of my respect for my WH, too.
skinsgal..sometimes I am so tried and sleepy from doing everything and going back to school...but my biggest motivation is my children. They are only babies! (2.5 years and almost 6 mos!) I look at them and say to myself I WILL NOT FAIL, GOD WON'T LET ME FAIL. People feel sorry for me...but I don't feel sorry for myself anymore.
Sometimes I think "Lord...look at the past behavior of my WH..look what he has done. You told me you WILL fix this. But how?? Everything looks so messed up." But just like SMB pointed out in the Bible, God tell us he has good plans for us that will prosper us...but He doesn't tell us how He's going to do it. So yes, sometimes it's hard for me to even have faith the size of a mustard seed. But I have to believe and keep the faith.
I remember one of the last things I heard my Pastor at the church I went to say.."Don't go through something and not be anything."
That's true..that's what I keep in mind when I read about Plan B and other people's plan B. You have to take care of yourself and prepare either way...or you will go insane! WH might think I'm losing sleep over him, ya better think again, buddy.
so skinsgal, continue to love yourself. You are BETTER than the OW. You are the King's daughter and He only wants what's best for His children.
Oh TMTS, how I love my H. And how I hurt knowing that there is NOTHING I can do for him. But move on and live a new life. I am having to do something that goes against everything I believe, and yet it's what G-d is telling me to do.
SG,
I felt so sad that my husband's choices were forcing me to live outside God's will (divorce). It was a real burden for me. Then at one point, I realized that "I" was still in God's will, even though I was headed for divorce. God knew my heart. He knew my willingness to love and forgive my husband. My relationship with God was not contingent on the status of my relationship with my husband.
God will honor your faithfulness.
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I'm tired of crying today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Just when you think there are no tears left, they come like a flood. So sorry, SG. Nothing I can say except I know your pain.
Quote: Spill with the phone call. Let me guess someone on the other end suggested you should have no hope..
Yep.
Don't call them any more, OK?
I started reading the book. I haven't finished it yet. I started lots of books that I haven't finished. This wasn't the first web site I visited or even the first one I posted on...It was the first one where I actually found a real plan that gave me hope.
Those involved in my life before this mess started, thought I was the stronger of the two. I did come to learn that I actually am the stronger. He WALKED OUT and LEFT THE MESS FOR ME TO CLEAN UP.
Emotionally, I just NEVER realized how MUCH I LOVED MY H and depended on his being in my life everyday, because I had committed myself with every fiber of my being.
I was TOTALLY UNPREPARED for this to happen. I didn't lie down and do nothing. I picked myself up against any desire to and addressed every addiction I had, worked on my weight, got healthy, but most importantly developed a R with G-d.
On the whole, I really am doing ok. Yesterday was just one of those days. And I think that it was a snow ball effect without me realizing it and when I heard that WH called OS to come over and look at the car instead of calling me, I WAS COMPLETELY DEFLATED. My mind goes to places that I still learning how to stop.
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so skinsgal, continue to love yourself. You are BETTER than the OW. You are the King's daughter and He only wants what's best for His children.
The reality is both WH and OW are the King's children and he wants what is best for them as well. The only difference is I am working to live in his will daily while they aren't. But he loves them just as much as me and is so sad for them.
For the most part I am adjusting pretty darn well with my new life. I'm moving on whether my heart is in it or not. It's what G-d needs me to do. When I read my daughter's myspace and how she apologized to her dad for what she thought drove him away just broke my heart. Because the destruction of what this has caused is crippling me. I hurt for my children and I know there is NOTHING I can do.
When I was talking to my DD last night she mentioned how everyone is complaining about WH, he is edgy and grouchy and not at all the same person he was. I KNEW that, and at one time got comfort that he wasn't happy. But I just love him so much - my heart hurts that he is choosing to be so out of G-ds will and not even realize it. Does that make sense.
The sad thing... WH believes he is completely walking in G-ds will and I'm scared he won't ever realize it. But again, I KNOW there is NOTHING I can do but get out of G-ds way. It just hurts deeply and somedays cripples me.
Mark, I just read this over again...
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So God's comfort is Him giving us His strength and power to get us through...
I have to admit, I never looked at it this way. WOW, what an eye opener. And how comforting. Wow.....
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It was the first one where I actually found a real plan that gave me hope.
That's all I want is to just protect my hope and carry on with my new life. I think it's when I lose hope that things tumble downward.
But then I look to people to give me hope when really I need to only look to G-d for guidance on what my next step should be. What you said about comfort has really helped me see things in a new light. Thank you.
SMB, like you say, sometimes all I can do is just go through the feelings and keep praying... Go to sleep early and have the day end faster.
I wish I could put into words what I feel, like I've been robbed or worse. But, each day I give it to G-d walk in his FAITH that this pain will end and I will LIVE a NEW LIFE that G-d will look down on and say it is good. Like he did to the world. I'm glad it's shabbat tonight. A good time to rest my soul and listen to G-d.
Mark, I can't say I won't call them, but I can set boundaries with them that giving up HOPE is NOT an OPTION. She is helping me with my self-esteem issues that need to be worked on. She is Christian based and understands, but she is human as us and is limited in seeing the good that G-d is creating, like me.
Stay focused on what you can have control over and turn your stuff over to God. That includes your dreams of WH coming home. Your attitude has to be one of, "I want this, Lord, but not my will but yours is what I want even more."
When YOU are what God wants you to be, He might decide to send WH home, but WH needs to come to the end of himself as well and let God work in his heart and mind so that the two of you are seeking Him. Then your marriage could be incredible.
But if your WH refuses to do what God expects and never comes back, you will still be better off, because God has already planned for that event, since He already knows what your WH will do and has accounted for it in His plans. He has already seen the future because He sees the end from before the beginning and knows how your every day will play out.
And patience is something we all need to understand in terms of God being eternal rather than temporal. I asked God once if it was true that to Him a day was as a thousand years and a thousand years was as a single day. He assured me it was the case. So I asked if it was true that everything belonged to him and all that I ever had was just on loan from Him and He told me that was true. So I asked if I could borrow a million dollars and He said to wait a day or two...
I actually understand what you are saying. I find myself fighting it, but I understand. I am so thankful for your reminders and words of guidance. I think it's a way that G-d speaks to me.
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I want patience, but I want it NOW!
My sister told me that if I asked for patience I would get those situations that required patience. Can we think of some other trait that would work on the same thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Perserverance, etc.
I don't live a thousand years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm just about to leave for an overnight ice fishing trip. I won't be around till late tomorrow night, if then. I expect you to find something in the scriptures that you can share with me when I get back.
I've been catching up when I can and now have a minute to actually respond.
You are growing so much. I know it's hard to see. It's like something I read in a book last year. I think I shared it with you but it's worth repeating. During winter, when a tree sheds its leaves and seems so barren, the cold makes the tree draw its sap deep into its center-making it stronger and killing the pests that might be in its bark. The strength doesn't show until spring, when all that strength produces wonderful, fragrant growth.
That's where we are during this winter of our hearts. Pulling into our core-into God-and becoming stronger. He will bring the spring at the right time, and our strength will be a testimony to His enduring grace and love.
I am going to my 25th college class reunion tomorrow-if it doesn't snow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am going to my 25th college class reunion tomorrow-if it doesn't snow.
I remember that phone call you got last weekend where you were discussing it. What are you going to wear?
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You are growing so much.
Actually I saw it tonight when the WH was over. I watched him get into a competition with his son on who hits harder. Here is this man has not seen his son for over 4 months, and not only did he have to one up him on everything, but he kept interrupting his son to tell him what he was doing in lacrosse. I was astounded.
I think it hurt me, that he didn't call me to tell me he was coming over, he called the boys. But oh well, when he got there I invited him to stay for dinner, he couldn't he had to get home and cut firewood for heat. Then I invited him inside. He walked through the apt. He didn't really say much, commented about the boys room being messy and then went into my room. He stayed for a second. When we were outside, I asked him if he saw Scrappy Doo and Cindy Too which were stuffed animals that we bought each other in our early years. In fact, I asked him in front of MS and he said yes. MS son wanted to know who they were and I told him. I elaborated. WH was uncomfortable as usual, but he did see them. And then I knew he saw all the other momentos that I had around the house of him. He just took it in. What he does with it, or even if it made a difference I don't care, what was important was it was MY Plan to have him inside and I got that. My place was clean and welcoming and he goes home to trash each night.
We had another talk about the house "WE" are buying. And something happened, I realized that he is NEGATIVE, he calls it reality, but that he lives in such a small world. I don't want to live there with him. I see possibilities in life. He sees "reality". He blames everyone else for those mistakes which cost us dearly financially, and he had a huge part in them, as did I.
Whether he is happy or not, I am not guessing at, what I KNOW is that the energy around him, I didn't like. I can see where it's important to get to Plan B to preserve the love I have for him, because I am truly seeing him in a different light.
He doesn't treat me as an equal partner, heck he won't even let me share an idea without disagreeing with it. What has changed is how I deal with it. I didn't buy into it, I kept making suggestions, asking for input and listening. I didn't LB or give a DJ at all and trust me it was on my tongue, actually no it wasn't. What was there was recognizing how he could CARE LESS about being anything but mean or indifferent to me. He is edgy, he is ICKY, for lack of a better word. He isn't my knight in shiny armor anymore.
I asked him about the book he is reading - Wild at Heart, twice actually and he wouldn't give me any input or feedback. I asked him what he what he liked about the book, and he said it's quiet. Can you imagine? Actually who would want to.
What I realized tonight is that I don't want this person in my life. I am full of life, I have G-d leading my life and showing me the vivaciousness and this WH is a downer and treats me like crap. He chooses, is unable, whatever to see me for the light I am. I hope he sees it before it's too late, I truly do, but he just doesn't appreciate me at all.
There is one part that hopes he treats her the same way, I have a sense that he does, but then again, in the scheme of things it doesn't matter because that is who he is and when things get "reality" for him, that's how he will treat her and I DESERVE and WANT better than THAT.
I am one step closer to believing that if he is so stupid as to let me get away, he really is the big loser. And I am one step closer to realizing that just maybe there is someone else out there for me who G-d has planned for me.
Today, my FAITH lies in G-d just getting me through today.
I managed to hugs, one when I was congratulating him for something and the second one when he was leaving, I pulled him to me, kissed him, hugged him tightly and whispered I loved him.
NOTHING from him.
But I did MY PLAN..... And for as long as I am in this Plan I will continue to work on every opportunity.
He did say he would check with his people for the battery which means he needs to come over again. Hopefully he will even pay for it. I am not going to offer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I hope that G-d's will is for him to come home. But G-d gave me a gift today in seeing how much he has changed and it's not all for the good, nor was this my fault. I hope that makes sense.
Actually, "Wild at Heart" is an excellent book. You might want to read it if you get a chance.
Last week when he told me he was reading it, Mimi told me to run, not walk to the book store and get it. I did and actually almost stayed up the whole night reading it.
Wouldn't you know that OW's name is Eve. I have no idea what he is getting out of it, or even if he is truly reading it. That isn't mine concern. I can only pray that G-d can reach him and I can find a way to keep dialogue open about it.
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I am wondering if you should be a little more aloof with him. Let him know you care, but don't try to get all over him with hugs and stuff.
Certainly something to consider. Anyone else think I should stop this? Part of hugging him is having him feel the physical differences in my body because of the weight I have lost.
My reasoning, please correct me if I am wrong is that I really need him to understand how life could be if he came home. He needs to know I would be affectionate, loving and putting him first above all else. I have a feeling that the more I can do right now, and then completely go dark, the better my Plan B will impact him. When, I have no idea. But that's why I hug him at every opportunity. It's not a needy hug, just a genuine, I am your wife and I love you hug.
I understand your point and it's a good one. But, now that he already knows how you "feel", maybe back off a little on the hugs. But you can still get in "close" to him just enough to smell your perfume and make him want to hug you and drive him crazy because you wont.
I'd be interested in what worked for other people.
When my H left me, it was pretty bad for awhile. But he started talking to me again and had to come over a few times to do whatever. We made out. I started feeling used and not right about the situation so I stopped and got a life. That's when he really started to want me I think. Why is it that they always want what they can't have? My H has done this over and over.
I can tell, the WH has ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE FOR ME WHATSOEVER. I might as well be a dog that he can kick away for all he thinks of me. Actually the way he treats me you would think i was the one having the A and walked out. He treats me as I was disgusting. And that truly hurts.
I am not overly affectionate, just a wife claiming her place in the limited opportunities I get. It's nothing sexual, just a hug, a sweet kiss on the lips, and an I love you in the ear.
But, I agree. What do others think? I don't do it all the time - just when I can push the moment. I don't say I love you all the time. But this was different. He was on my turf, seeing the home that I want him to join us in and I wanted it to be loving and warm and inviting. Make sense?
How did I become so disgusting as his wife. That just plain hurts...
Ummmm......he had to justify that you are so he can continue to do what he is doing without guilt.
Me? Crappy, afraid, sleepy, etc. But, I am doing something different because nothing else worked and I am hoping for the best. H & I are separating tommorow and I have good and bad feelings about it.
I've been avoiding my thread this evening. I was going to start posting earlier on it when I had more energy but I had the opportunity to have a little family time with my son, his gf & my H so I did. When I finally started posting, I was too tired to get into my stuff. It's easier to get into someone else's stuff.....lol.....
I was thinking about the aloof business... my wh is around a lot more because of the kids, but it's usually when I'm "busy" and have other things to do around the house that he seeks me out for affection, If I'm right there, he doesn't want anything to do with me.
Hey skinny girl! (For some reason that is what I think of when I see your username!)
I am sorry you are lonely and hurting tonight. What is going on tonight that makes it especially hard?
You helped motivate me to start quilting again. I went into my DD20's old room, which I had just crammed stuff into, and rearranged it into a working art room. And in the process I found a quilt for a little girl that I finished over a year ago but thought wasn't "good enough" to send. When I looked again, it was really lovely and bright. So I sent it, and the little girl, who is in kindergarten, was thrilled. The neat thing is the timing-- she has recently been struggling with migraines.
Now I am making a quilt for a soon-to-be-born baby girl in the same family. It is a "garden party" style, 5 inch large florals print blocks alternating with 9 patches of small florals. So far so good. I hadn't touched my machine in so long I had forgotten a few things about it! That is sad!
The whole A business and my mom's death last year really did a number on my ability to be creative. It is healing for me to be back at it.
I did, I am so glad. Thank you for telling me that. I am so happy you are finding comfort. I miss quilting, but have no energy to create either.
I like skinny girl..... lol. not true, at least not yet.
I actually was having a GODDESS morning, slept in, did my hair up nice, well as nice as possible, and walked to the nail place and had a set of nails put on. french manicure, enjoyed girly talking with so many friends in there.
Then I hooked up with a friend to go help someone whose wife left him after 47 years. She just went crazy. He is moving out of his house and I went to go help with a bunch of other people.
We went to lunch, had a blast and life was ok. Then driving to this man's house, I saw my WH and OW driving the other way and it brought it all up in my face and it crushed my spirit and I haven't recovered.
So, I'm here lonely and sad, trying to remember all the things. It's an addiction, affairs almost always end. It just hurts because she was sitting in my seat in his car with my husband and I'm alone.
I'm actually doing ok... but in the back of my mind I'm wondering why? I have so many questions for WH, but don't dare ask. I have seen him a bit more lately and we seem to be "chatting" on the phone, email, and im more... but I still don't know what any of his "plans" are.
I'm trying to take care of myself.
I've always wanted to quilt! Said I would start when WH went on his first "hardship" tour 13+ years ago... still haven't tried it.
Ohh, I can just feel the kick in the stomach that must have been.
I'm OK. Our recovery is moving along. I look back on the most hurtful times and I do not know how I got through them. Much of the worst has dissipated.
Our kids are doing OK-- DD20 is great in NY, DS23 is getting by in rehab (still needs a job, and hasn't made any real steps towards independence, but he is alive and doing little things every day that are "better.") DS13 has been needing me a lot lately, if you KWIM. So we played Knex today and worked on some vocabulary words and walked the dog. H has to work all weekend.
I've been trying to eat more. Sleeping better, smiling more.
I have a machine, but it really needs a tune up. I'm so in to scrapbooking though-- not that I've done a ton. That went on the way backburner when life went down hill... but I actually did a page wednesday night ;-)
Skins, Two quick questions for you. I've watched Fiddler on the roof my entire life and I just watched it again last night with my Mom. When they celebrate the Sabbath, what does it mean when the women wave their hands over the candles? Also, why do they do the spit-on-their-fingers thing?
Just curious. I know every single song on that soundtrack and I love it! We're Catholic, but my parents had several Jewish friends and we even had a minorah in our house growing up that one of them had given my Mom as a gift.
I edited my post ((skins)) to take that question away, but I see you read it and responded. Like I said, I can't keep up. I'm sorry you saw what you did. BTDT-yesterday!! We live in such a small community I do my best NOT to look at any of the vehicles going in the opposite direction, it's not easy or safe probably, but I really don't want to see them together. I felt it in my bones yesterday that I could have almost rammed her vehicle when she turned down our street to take the kids to daycare. Lucky for all it was a fleeting feeling. I pray to have patience and not act like a fool, but every now and again...ugh it's just so hard.
You know both of our WHs are probably thinking they don't deserve us back!! That will surely make them resent the trash they have right now!
How can it be that this one person in my life has so much power to make me feel like a piece of garbage who doens't deserve to live.
And yet, when I really look at him and talk to him like I did yesterday I just shake my head for the loss of a wonderful man.
Oh, Free, it hurts so bad.... The worst pain that keeps on coming when you least expect it. I want to just cry the pain all out and have it be done. But then I remember who I am. Someone who loves this man with all my heart and soul and believes in him.
I have FAITH in G-d that he is making a life for me. It's just hard at times.
Because you married him. You loved him. You had children with him. It is only natural that it is going to hurt. You were together a long time! But THIS TOO SHALL PASS.
The key is not to give into the power of your mind telling you it is hopeless, you are sad, why didn't he love me, what is wrong with me, etc. You have to MAKE yourself stop Skins. The mind is the Devil's playground and he will use it to his advantage so you must fight against those negative thoughts.
Write positive things down on a piece of paper and keep it handy. Write a few scriptures of hope too. When those sad and pitiful thoughts come up, grab that paper and replace them with the good things. Say them out loud. Speak as if they WERE and you will eventually make a new habit of good thoughts. But you have to redirect and do it every day.
It's the image of the man you wanted him to be, not the man he really is right now. That is what you are holding on to.
Let me ask you this, why haven't you tried a Plan B yet? You have been doing Plan A for so long and it is hurting you tremendously, while he gets his jollies doing whatever he wants to make you feel like crap.
It may give you a temporary "fix" when you see him, but Skins it only leaves an empty hole when he turns around and walks out the door. What is keeping you from going dark?
Due to the chemicals in their brain during the affair, they just stop caring about everything that used to be important to them - spouses, kids, pets, family, friends, you name it. They are getting their high from the affair.
My ex was just completely out of my life. He would stop by and lie to me about once every couple of months. That was it.
And he used to ge a very Godly man. One of the things I fell in love with is how well he treated everyone. He would treat a down and out man on the street the same way he would treat the most famous person on earth.
But after the affair hit he turned into a stranger. I'll never forget the COLDNESS in his eyes.
Chrys, you are a gift that I need tonight. Thank you...
When times were tough what did you do to get out of it?
I know one way... I told Mark I would have a scripture that I learned. I read and found one last night. Now I just need to post it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
A lot of times, I didn't get out of it. I LBd. I triggered. We fought, terribly, after more than a quarter century of NEVER fighting. My H was an alien.
It was horrible. I can't really go to the memories in my head. There is a long ways to go before I can say "healed" or "recovered."
I do not know if you have read my threads. My H behaved despicably, yet we never separated nor seriously considered a split,because our DS13 has serious issues (bipolar and autism.) At many times, the only glue holding us together was a shared commitment to doing what our son needed.
Bracha, dear friend, I married a good man, whom I could trust. I ended up with an alien. I am praying daily for the good man to re-emerge, and he does often these days.
I know I would leave if another "incident" occurred. I hope I am never tested with that.
We are older, in our mid-50s now. Even if my H works longer than most, we are not young any more. Our options and choices are different from those of younger people, and different from those without special needs children relying on them.
But there is hope.I am seeing the good man, the man I could trust, again.
Bracha, dear friend, I married a good man, whom I could trust. I ended up with an alien. I am praying daily for the good man to re-emerge, and he does often these days.
I married a good man too who is a complete alien. The only difference being he just tossed me away without regards to anything...
But then that it was an addict does. I just remember who he was and that's when I get into trouble. I watch my DD and the pain she is in because of what her dad has become.
I love my kids, I promised Mimi I wouldn't do anything and I won't. But I just want the pain to end. I want G-d to pick me up and put me somewhere where I feel safe and not so flippin alone.....
Good thing it's almost time to go to bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Oh, Chrys, I'm so sorry you went through this. The pain I feel for everyone who experiences this is overwhelming because I truly understand it.
And you probably wondered where I was didn't you. Just a busy day and night, but that's not important right now.
I cannot even imagine what that was like. But remember that your pain is very much real and are here to help you through it. (I had a nap when I got home from work, so I'm good for a while).
You know my thoughts and prayers are with you.
Never doubt the truth in this statement!
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He really is losing a WINNER and AMAZING woman in me.
I'm good Queenie, except for a few friends that I'm worried about on here. I haven't checked my thread yet, so I'll be posting in just a little.
Please never even doubt it Queenie, if you dig deep down you know it to be true.
As for when you became crap to him, is when he turned into crap himself... crap can only see crap. Listen to our friend Believer, look at her H now... would you ever consider her as anything other than a GODDESS and a WINNER. Look at my F, it took him over a year and a half to get to that pint, and he got lucky my M took him back because it was touch and go for a while.
You are anything but garbage or crap! You are a flower in bloom who beauty id just starting to be exposed for the world to see. We are just the lucky ones that get to see it first.
[ I watch my DD and the pain she is in because of what her dad has become.
I love my kids, I promised Mimi I wouldn't do anything and I won't. But I just want the pain to end. I want G-d to pick me up and put me somewhere where I feel safe and not so flippin alone.....
You are a beautiful and amazing woman. Do not let go of this. You need to be there for your children.
And you do give hope and strength to many who read these pages. Take heart. Sleep well. Tomorrow is a new day.
I will look for you in a few. I told Mark I would have a scripture and I haven't found one that is helping me right now.
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You are anything but garbage or crap! You are a flower in bloom who beauty id just starting to be exposed for the world to see. We are just the lucky ones that get to see it first.
I am the lucky one that you haven't given up on me. Though you might want to shake me right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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You are a beautiful and amazing woman. Do not let go of this. You need to be there for your children.
I promised Mimi, and others. I will be there, I will keep fighting through this and let G-d lead me out when it's time. It just might not me time yet.
Sleep well. I have that wedding tomorrow morning, I'm scared and I think that's part of this. I'm just doing so many new things that I'm completely out of my comfort zone.
But then I remember what Mark said... Comfort from G-d = strength. Strength to move forward and learn what I need to learn to become who HE wants me to be and live a new life.
Jeremiah 20:11 But the lord is with me like a mighty warrior Therefore my persecutors shall stumble They shall not prevail and shall not succeed. They shall be utterly shamed
This has been a hard thing.... let me try some more....
I have that wedding tomorrow morning, I'm scared and I think that's part of this. I'm just doing so many new things that I'm completely out of my comfort zone.
Maybe this is part of God's plan right now. He is taking you out of your "comfort zone" to show you what you really are capable of doing. You are an amazing woman. If you don't think that, look at what you have accomplished in the midst of all this. You have created a home for your DS's and made it a refuge for them. You have sought to find your comfort in God and have grown in your faith beyond what you may have thought possible. Your faith is as real as the air you breathe. You have continued to work on your health and you DO look fantastic in emerald green.:) You are reaching out to others here and you are supporting others in their pain, helping them in their journey.
Simply amazing!
Ps 121-
I lift my eyes to the mountains. Where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord the maker of heaven and earth.
He will not let your foot slip- He who keeps you will not slumber; Indeed, He who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.
The Lord watches over you- The Lord is your shade on your right hand; The sun will not harm you by day, nor the moon by night.
The Lord will keep you from all harm- He will watch over your life; the Lord will watch over your coming and going both now and forevermore.
Sleep well and enjoy the wedding tomorrow. You have a great chance to bless the bride with your talent and your prayers.
Skins, Two quick questions for you. I've watched Fiddler on the roof my entire life and I just watched it again last night with my Mom. When they celebrate the Sabbath, what does it mean when the women wave their hands over the candles? Also, why do they do the spit-on-their-fingers thing?
After lighting the candles, the woman covers her eyes with her hands and recites the following blessing: "Barukh atah Adonai E1oheinu, melekh ha'olam, asher kid'shanu b'mitzvotav v'tzivanu l'hadlik ner shel Shabbat" (Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe, Who has made us holy through His commandments and commanded us to kindle the Sabbath light).
After the blessing, some women add a silent prayer for the family.
Only after the blessing is recited, the woman uncovers her eyes and looks at the light. By covering her eyes, the woman can focus more fully on the blessing and can postpone the enjoyment of the fruits of the blessing (seeing the light) until after the blessing is recited.
---pasted from the About.com website---
Not sure about the spitting onthe fingers thing, though. I've actually never seen that happen.
You know. I think that Plan B is in order for tonight. I find myself feeling sorry for myself lately and that is not a good thing.
Not sure where to start, should I look online, take someones and remodel it so to speak or generate my own.
Thanks, PM. I NEEDED that.
Chrys, I had that wedding thing in the morning. I was around to many happy people for too long and it started to bring me down. I came home and binge ate, which is something I haven't done for a long time. Took a nap and my son got home. I think I am going to go shopping for a little while and get out of my skin....
You know. I think that Plan B is in order for tonight. I find myself feeling sorry for myself lately and that is not a good thing.
I see that in you too sweetie. It's time for you to take your focus OFF your WH. Plan B will give you that relief. It's almost as if he's (your WH) is standing in the way of you getting to the place that you are seeking with G-d. Complete and total trust in HIM.
I remember visiting a church in the darkest hour of my ordeal. I asked for personal prayer and a lady (a stranger) prayed over me out loud. She prayed that I would "let him go" so that healing could happen. I was floored. She didn't even know me but had just read my mail. I know it was straight from G-d.
I kicked and railed and didn't want to turn loose of my fragile hold on my WH (even if it was an unhealthy because I was doing anything I could to keep me 1st in his mind -- and believe me, some of the things I did were in NO WAY Plan A stuff). It wasn't until I was able to REALLY accept that I had to get out of the way... that things started happening. (Ah... if I'd only had MB back then.)
From what I've learned since coming to MB is that Plan B is for YOU. It is not meant to jump start anything or force your WH to do anything. It's about your boundaries and what is acceptable to you in order for you to heal. You will have time to regroup, grow even more and think with a clear head (no drama or non/drama from WH to interfere.) You'll be getting YOUR life set.
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Not sure where to start, should I look online, take someones and remodel it so to speak or generate my own.
Use the standard here on MB and then tweak it for your personal situation. PLEASE PLEASE run it by the vets to help you.
I think you are more like the loyal dog that got left in the yard when the owner moved away but those really great people from the Humane Society came and got you and you got taken home by a wonderful owner (God) who treats you like the treasure you are-you are just a bit "gun shy" and aren't quite sure if this wonderful world is really true.
Ever watch Animal Cops? My favorite part is the follow up where the kittens that were trapped in a drain or the poor puppy left with no food or water is in a new home playing to their hearts' content and basking in the love of their new family. Sometimes it takes the nurture of some gentle foster families to coax these sweet critters out of their guarded fear into abundant joy.
You are in the best of hands-God's. He is both the foster family and the generous home in the follow up.
How was that for an extended simile? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just feel like a dog that has been kicked to the curb and thrown away because I was total junk.
I can tell by your posts and your heart that that isn't true.
Please remember that waywards will try to make you look like the bad guy, and rewrite your history to justify what they're doing to avoid their own guilt.
I can almost guarantee you at some point WH will come out of the fog and feel the same way you do right now, especially if he comes back too late.
Even if I move on without my husband, I would never want him to feel like junk. I think I feel really bad now. I've said some pretty bad things to my husband. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Skinsgal, I meant to write you last night and when I did, it seems the board went all freaky on me so my response was lost and I couldn't get logged back in. I went to bed right after.
The information on the covering of the eyes as from About.com. As a Noachide, I'm fairly aware of some JEwish customs and I remembered someone telling me about the same thing. Since most of my mentors are Orthodox/frum its their perspective I know better. Another Orthodox rabbi explained also that its after the blessing that Shabbat truly begins (since you've invited the Shekinah into your home) and by lighting the candles before you say the blessing, you avoid breaking the rule of lighting a fire on Shabbat (its that fence around the Torah idea- there are many rules set up as a fence to try to keep from breaking Torah commandments). So, a woman will light the candles, cover her eyes, say the prayer, and when she opens her eyes, Shabbat 'begins' and the lighting rule is unbroken.
AS for Plan B.... its my strong opinion it needs to start ASAP.
Please remember that waywards will try to make you look like the bad guy, and rewrite your history to justify what they're doing to avoid their own guilt.
I know it, but it still hurts and I lose the knowing part every so often. Especially after I am around him and that darkness. It makes me crazy or my mind wonders.... this, that and the other.... Even though it's stinkin thinkin....
My H doesn't give a rip how I feel. There isn't an ounce of compassion whatsoever. He is the total victim in all this. I think that is what hurts the most that he just walked out and doesn't care if we are hurting. But then I get to go to an AA meeting and remind myself of how he is addicted and of course he wouldn't care. All he cares about is his next fix or himself. This disease is selfish, self-seeking etc.
This is one weird thing. Not once since this whole thing has happened have I ever had a good dream about this. I dreamt last night that H came home and became a FWH. Why would I dream of that now? When I have so little hope? Oh well, really does't matter, it was just awesome to see MY HUSBAND for a while, even if it was a dream. And it was HIM, the loving, caring man that I love with all my heart.
AS for Plan B.... its my strong opinion it needs to start ASAP.
How come?
What is a Noachide?
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Another Orthodox rabbi explained also that its after the blessing that Shabbat truly begins (since you've invited the Shekinah into your home) and by lighting the candles before you say the blessing, you avoid breaking the rule of lighting a fire on Shabbat (its that fence around the Torah idea- there are many rules set up as a fence to try to keep from breaking Torah commandments). So, a woman will light the candles, cover her eyes, say the prayer, and when she opens her eyes, Shabbat 'begins' and the lighting rule is unbroken.
This is what I thought it was, I just wasn't sure. My customs and understanding of Judaism isn't as strong as others. My parents never taught us anything about our religion and I have learned it all by myself.
Shabbat is the only observance contained in the Ten Commandments and as such is different than any other religious observance. Many Christians think of it as a day of prayer and worship, but it is really intended to be a day of rest and meeting with God and dwelling on "higher" things than the daily work of the rest of the week. Though prayer and worship are part of that concept, it is not so much that it is kept, but that it has kept those who practice it separate from the world as a whole.
Man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for Man. Direct quote from Jesus...
Thanks Mark, with respect to the scripture. It was weird, I had the hardest time finding something that meant anything. I don't ususally have that much trouble. I just think I am having a hard time period or my victim attitude in taking a bigger dip into my perspective these days.
I have done the searches and the AIGS. site. I just did't know how to put into words what she was asking. Now I just need to find the yiddish answer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sounds like you had a great weekend. I'm happy for you.
Why do the down days still come so strong. I am an intellectual, capable woman, an amazing capacity to learn and understand and yet "these days" crush my spirit.
What am I doing wrong? I am praying to G-d. I'm being still. I am waiting. Why does the pain keep hurting so deep. What am I missing?
{{{{{{Mimi}}}}}}}} I missed you ALOT. I was just thinking of putting out a Mimi are you home yet comment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Did you have a great weekend and trip away?
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What's up, Queenie?
Not the best of days for me. Not sure why. I have been to the lawyer, paperwork in his hands and he will be getting it completed and filed. I keep postponing my PBL, not sure why. Well, yes I am. I'm scared that it's out of sight or out of mind. I don't believe there is much more I could have done in Plan A given the circumstances, but it's sad and scary that I am taking such a RISK and I could LOSE big time.
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I've been scanning and noticing some STINKIN THINKIN.
I know...I've tried all weekend to shake it. Went to lots of meetings, was actually doing good until I saw him drive past me with OW in the car and it was downhill from there and I haven't been able to recover.
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The healing from this will take a long, long, long time.
Maybe I am just being too hard on myself and think I should just be over it. But darn if that pain just is as intense as it was.
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I'm sorry, Queenie.
I'm sorry I am letting you and others down by not being stronger. I'm am trying so hard.
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It will be necessary to find some way to ENDURE the PAIN.
I'll take suggestions.....
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Do you think that you are learning to deal with emotional pain rather than trying to escape from it?
I am not sure I know what the difference is.
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There are NO QUICK FIXES...
There are so many other people on here who seem to have just picked up and moved on, while I seem stuck and I don't know why.
Did you read where I had a dream last night about my H. It was my H Mimi. The one I love and miss SO MUCH. It was so real and made me realize that who I remember was really a person at one time. Though he doesn't exist anymore.
I missed you Mimi, I am sorry I wasn't stronger...
I keep postponing my PBL, not sure why. Well, yes I am. I'm scared that it's out of sight or out of mind. I don't believe there is much more I could have done in Plan A given the circumstances, but it's sad and scary that I am taking such a RISK and I could LOSE big time.
What is the big risk? Do you mean Plan B? SG, he is already gone (I'm giving you a hug as I say that. OK? feel it?) Plan B is not a risk. It is the next step. Without it, you are becoming a doormat. You cannot continue to be all sweet and cute and just hope he comes around. Plan B is saying, "I'm am good enough, valuable enough to protect. And I WILL protect myself." SG, it is time. Your Plan A has been incredible. But it can't, and SHOULD NOT, last forever.
Do you see the drama you endure daily because he is still involved in your life. You need the peace and protection that Plan B will bring.
Do you see the drama you endure daily because he is still involved in your life. You need the peace and protection that Plan B will bring.
I do.
I went looking on here for a letter. Didn't have any luck. Any ideas?
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No one has expectations that you need to live up to.
Not expectations, just thinking that the time and energy you give me is being wasted on someone who isn't improving or growing more steady.
I'm not used to thinking that I am valuable or worth anything more than what a WH throws at me as a second thought. This has been the hardest thing... to think that I am worth anything other than garbage. One day, when I truly believe I am a something good, I think I will soar.
SMB, does tst have anything to say about why my WH does the things he does? At least wishful thinking that anyone can understand. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He has been asked that by several BS's. His response to me is that "His why's were all lies."
Doesn't really help much, does it? I think he means that his thinking was so muddled from the fog that there is no way we could ever make sense of it.
And my dear lady, you are valuable and worthy. You are a child of the King. Have you read the book, You are Special, my Max Lucado? If not, go get it!!!
It is a children's book. But the lesson is so incredible. I think it should be high school reading material <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I cry every single time I read it. And I have chills right now telling you about it...because I know it would speak to your heart.
Please get the book. You will begin to understand just how valuable you are, and the stickers won't stick anymore (read and you will understand <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Come back soon. Your words bring so much comfort to me.
SG, you have no idea how much that means to me. That God can take all my pain and suffering and make it good.
Just want to share some verses with you. Some are from the New Testament, I hope you don't mind. These verses spoke to me during my darkest days (as I refer to them).
Blessed are those who trust in the Lord and have made the Lord their hope and confidence. They are like trees planted in the riverbank, with roots that reach deep into the water. Jeremiah 17:7-8
Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Hebrews 11:11
But they that wait upon the Lord sall renew their strength. They sall mount up with wings as eagles, they sall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint. Isaiah 40:31
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13
The Lord will guide you always; he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land and will strengthen your frame. Isaiah 58:11
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight. Prov. 3:5-6
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you...For I am the Lord your God...you ar precious in my sight...and I love you." Isaiah 43:2-4
He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds. Psalm 147:3
I was pushed back and about to fall, but the Lord helped me. Psalm 118:13
It is better to take refuge in the Lord, than to trust in man. Psalm 118:8
Here my prayer, O Lord, let my cry for help come to you. Do not hid your face from me when I am in distress. Turn your ear to me; when I call, answer me quickly. Psalm 102:1-2
Because he loves me says the Lord, I will resuce him; I will protect him for he acknowledges my name. He will call upon me and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. Psalm 91:15
I think that in your case the answer may be that you are getting freshly wounded every time to talk to him.
I think that is so true. I think seeing him in the car with her just devastated me all over. I just haven't recovered.
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You are of incredible value. This does not depend on his assessment of you. It comes form God, and resonates within you.
I don't believe this...Am working towards it though. I really am.
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I would really like to see you get some peaceful time.
Me too... And not just for a couple of days at a time, but long term. I'm really tired... emotionally and spiritually. In Plan A, I am constantly thinking of opportunities to Plan A him, but there aren't really any. I've think that I have done as good a job with what I had to work with. I'm just so tired... of thinking about Plan Aing him. I want it to be over soon.
Not that I am giving up on my M, because I AM NOT. I'm just tired and need peace...
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Also, I do not remember if you have seen a doc about ADs. You are sounding a bit depressed to me. That is pretty typical. If you haven't talked to your doctor about how you are feeling, would you do that for me this week?
Last summer, I went to the dr and got two prescriptions of AD's. My body has horrible reactions to them and with my addiction background the drs thought it was best to just work through it.
Most times I am ok. Just when it's slapped into my face it just takes me down when I am so ill prepared or caught off guard. Maybe that's it. I have built a protection of making sure to only be around him when I WANTED. Seeing him like that was so unexpected and my guard was done. What do you think.
Just want to share some verses with you. Some are from the New Testament, I hope you don't mind. These verses spoke to me during my darkest days (as I refer to them).
Thank you. Please know that anything you share with me that helped you, is treasured in my heart.
Please understand how much I need you in my life, because you and SO MANY others, help me to feel that I matter as a person and that I can get through this no matter what happens.
I really have shifted from believing that if I just keep faith my M will be restored. I am keeping the faith that G-d is working hard for that, but I also know that somehow someday it will be ok, no matter what happens. I just have to keep taking one foot and move it forward.
And I can't do that alone, or without you all. There is NO WAY I could have gotten this far.
You all here is how G-d shows me in the physical form. He speaks to me in my heart and faith, but sometimes I just need people to hold me and push me along. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thank you so many of you for your patience and not giving up on me.
Yes, I think that the unexpected sighting was especially hard on you last week,
You need more protection from these storms, I think. I hesitate to say that, because my circumstances were very different from yours.
About the ADs, it may be there are others you could try, or dietary interventions. DO you take vitamins? Omega-3 supplements are very good for mood issues. Exercise? Anything at all you can do to support your mood would be wise. Are you getting regular sleep?
Your resources and defenses are depleted and you really must build them back up.
Didn't we talk about you leaving him a GOODBYE BOX or something?
Yes we did.
You know, for me I am the ONE to have to DO SOMETHING. And yet, the things I can be doing I am avoiding. So....
Tonight after my AA meeting, it's Goodbye Box, and getting my PBL done. I have checked online for examples, didn't find any. I know there are out there. Where can I go?
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Your reaction to seeing your H with the OW is NORMAL.
It's like seeing your RAPIST or someone intent on MURDERING you..
What we have experienced is DEVASTATING.
Sweetie, don't expect yourself to be SUPERNATURAL.
People on the outside world don't understand this do they. And since I am surrounded by people who think I should be over this, your words help me to see that I am doing ok where I am at. They are such small steps, but they are steps.
I think I am a little frustrated that the weight loss has virtually stopped, and yet people keep thinking I am losing more. NOT
DO you take vitamins? Omega-3 supplements are very good for mood issues.
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I sell vitamins through my company. do you think I would take the time to help me. Not a chance. I will get some next month. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[quote] Exercise?
I actually do that irregularly, regularly. I walked around town whenever I get the chance and walk around work as much as possible. Getting to the gym isn't as regular as I would like.
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Are you getting regular sleep?
No, this is the hardest thing for me. I don't go to sleep until late. I HATE crawling into my empty bed. I only sleep for about 2 hours at a time and wake up and toss and turn for the rest of the night, and have to be up early for work. So, I am exhausted because of that.
It is really hard to do all the healthy stuff consistently, isn't it? I am only asking because you are hurting and you need to give yourself every possible tool to cope.
Have you mentioned the sleep issue to your doctor?
All of these "natural" interventions take time to make a difference but they really do help. Sleep, exercise, vitamins. Oh, I was going to ask about iron, too.
I hope I am not annoying you with these little nags.
All of these "natural" interventions take time to make a difference but they really do help. Sleep, exercise, vitamins. Oh, I was going to ask about iron, too.
I hope I am not annoying you with these little nags.
Heck no, it helps me to feel connected to life and moving forward. Taking care of my health was the last thing I ever did.
Nope, don't take iron. What would that do for me?
No, haven't mentioned it to the dr. I haven't been back since this summer when the AD's fiasco happened.
It's really amazing what a good 8 hours of sleep will do for your outlook and mental health. (I know... I've been sick for the past two weeks with barely over 2 hours/sleep a night because of meds and coughing and its horrible.) Saturday night was the first full-night sleep I've had in so long and it really made the next day brighter!
Sleep deprivation can lead to cloudy, irrational, stinkin' thinkin'. Please take the advice you're been offered to get some relief, if just for a short while.
My mom has always said things will often look worse at night. Sometimes you just need to deal with it when you're fresh. If you find yourself going to that dark place at night, plug in a silly movie (a lot of the old comedies are great for a good old-fashioned belly laugh). Allow yourself a break.
Sleep deprivation can lead to cloudy, irrational, stinkin' thinkin'. Please take the advice you're been offered to get some relief, if just for a short while.
My mom has always said things will often look worse at night. Sometimes you just need to deal with it when you're fresh. If you find yourself going to that dark place at night, plug in a silly movie (a lot of the old comedies are great for a good old-fashioned belly laugh). Allow yourself a break.
Trust me, I am taking the advice.
What are good movies to watch? I don't know of silly old movies. I never really watched anything other than food channel, sports and soaps...
8 hours of sleep, together... I just realized that hasn't happened since May 13, 2007 when my world was different. Wow, not wonder I am tired. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Your reference to Psalm 102 is a good one. A friend of mine called me at three AM a few days after D-day knowing I wouldn't be sleeping and just said "Read Psalm 102" and hung up. I did and began sleeping soon after.
I can remember the feeling of finally being free of an oppressive ex. YEEHAAA!!!!
I just read this statement over on Unconditional's thread.
This hit me in a very weird way. I am really going to need help Mark in this I am sure.
Remember how the Jews when freed from Egypt wandered in the desert for all those years, 40 to be exact? Well I sorta remember someone saying part of it was because they didn't know what freedom was or how to live it.
I have lived for so long in making my H happy or trying to fix him that I simple DON'T KNOW how to live my life for myself. It's not that I am UNWILLING, I just haven't learned it yet.
I saw your question on TMTS' thread about changing your thread name. Since yours is just over 60 days old, I think you have to contact one of the moderators and have them change it for you.
I saw your question on TMTS' thread about changing your thread name. Since yours is just over 60 days old, I think you have to contact one of the moderators and have them change it for you.
And remember that while they were wandering in the wilderness they began to grumble and complain. They missed what they once had, though they were in fact slaves when they were in Egypt.
They didn't see the miracle of God's daily provision (manna) because they were worrying about what they didn't have any longer.
So God gave them the meat they craved and as they ate it, many got sick and some died.
And all because they were so wrapped up in remembering what they once had, though it was never really theirs, they missed out on what God wanted to do for them. The fact that God himself was there in the wilderness with them meant nothing to those who grumbled and complained and longed for a fantasy that never really was.
Edited to add: The reason they wandered so long was that they didn't believe what God told them. He promised them that they would take possession of the land and eliminate the enemy that lived there. But when the spies returned they told stories of giants and difficulties to be overcome and worried that God wasn't bigger than the giants they had seen.
So God told them that since they could not trust Him, the entire generation would have to die before the people could enter the land. All but the two who did trust Him and one of them was Joshua who became the new leader of the nation.
And remember that while they were wandering in the wilderness they began to grumble and complain. They missed what they once had, though they were in fact slaves when they were in Egypt.
They didn't see the miracle of God's daily provision (manna) because they were worrying about what they didn't have any longer.
So God gave them the meat they craved and as they ate it, many got sick and some died.
And all because they were so wrapped up in remembering what they once had, though it was never really theirs, they missed out on what God wanted to do for them. The fact that God himself was there in the wilderness with them meant nothing to those who grumbled and complained and longed for a fantasy that never really was.
WOW....
Wow, I'm speechless, well almost. The book of Exodus is like my life. I remember so well how Joshua 23 directed me to learning the teachings of the book of Exodus. G-d has been driving me there all along, and I haven't been listening, have I.
Guess what my night reading is tonight. There is so much in there for me to learn about isn't there. It's my FREEDOM.
I'm utterly in awe of what I am feeling right now..
Mark, will you help me with the questions I am sure to have? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe then again, I won't. G-d wants me to read this and learn it, maybe it just will be still inside.....and I will know to just be still and wait for G-d to lead me to my PROMISE LAND...
Iron helps the blood. If you are a little bit anemic (easy to happen to women) you will be more tired because the blood isn't getting the maximum benefit from oxygen. Iron helps with that. I got frightfully anemic once and now take iron and B-12 (which somehow helps you benefit from the iron) every day. It helps a lot. There's a blood test for anemia, but a multi-vitamin with iron certainly won't hurt and might help a lot.
With the stress you are under, now is the time to take better care of yourself than ever. That doesn't mean you have to be a diva or act spoiled-- it just means faithfully doing the little things every day that will make you healthier.
You can call your doc on the phone and leave a message about depression and trouble sleeping, and ask for a call back. My H answers calls like that every single night. Maybe he will want you to come in, or maybe he will feel comfortable making recommendations with just a phone call.
Weight loss- sometimes you can get unstuck if you add lean protein for a few days before trying to cut back on anything.
Exercise-- Omron makes a fantastic pedometer that is available on Amazon for under $20. I got one and wear it every day. (Lately the steps have been way low, but that is good information for me to have, so I know what I need to change.) I have found that just this little trick helps me to remember to walk a little farther, take one more flight of stairs, little things that add up. And it really, really makes a difference when you are trying to lose weight.
You are so worth it, SG. Even a few little "taking care of myself" changes add up.
The story I related is actually from Numbers. Lots of good stuff in Numbers, once you get past the census...
Including a donkey that speaks in chapter 22.
One thing that often is missed in the story of Exodus is that before then God spoke with certain men. He called Abram. He spoke with Jacob. He sent Moses...But as the people left Egypt for the promised land, God HIMSELF went with them. He led them by day and watched over the camp by night.
In II Kings (Melachim B) chapter 6 we read of a siege of the capital of the Northern kingdom (Samaria). The siege was so bad that the people were starving and some actually resorted to cannibalism.The prophet Elisha said that God would cause food to become cheap because there would be so much of it.
The king's right hand man refused to believe and the prophet told him he would get to see it but would never get to eat any of it.
And outside the gates of the city sat 4 lepers. They, too were starving and began to wonder what they should do. They said, "If we sit here, we will starve. And if we go into the city, the famine is in there too and we will starve as well." But then they decided that if they went to the enemy camp, the worst that could happen was that they would be executed as spies. But they might be taken prisoner and if so, the enemy would feed them.
So they went to the enemy camp and before they arrived, God caused the enemy to hear the sound of thousands of chariots on the horizon as if coming to join the battle. Fearing that the king had sent for help from the Egyptians, they fled, leaving behind all of their supplies and in fact leaving the tables set with food.
So when the 4 lepers arrived, they found a feast awaiting them. They ate their fill and stashed supplies for the future. And then they realized they had the answer to the salvation of the entire kingdom in their hands and returned to tell the king of the good fortune.
At first, no one believed them, but soon the whole city was running through the gates to get food and equipment from the enemy camp. And the right hand man of the king, who refused to believe was trampled in the rush and died before eating a single bite.
Great story, but how to apply it...?
We find ourselves seemingly alone and without hope. Where we sit will be our undoing and if we go with our first instinct, we will also fail.
But when we trust God and go to face our fears (the enemy) we find that God has already been there ahead of us and has set the table with a great feast, the likes of which we couldn't even imagine before we saw it. And after we have had our fill and our own future is secured, we find that we also have the answer for others in the same situation.
Weight loss- sometimes you can get unstuck if you add lean protein for a few days before trying to cut back on anything.
I'll try that. I was actually thinking of switching my food plan to either the blood diet, I am B+ or a diabetic diet. I have given up sugar, almost totally, I still have those hidden ones, but very limited. What do you think. I will get me a bottle of daily vitamins. I use Nutrilite and they are made from plant concentrates. Very good quality.
Mark
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The story I related is actually from Numbers.
My ignorance of Torah is showing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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But when we trust God and go to face our fears (the enemy) we find that God has already been there ahead of us and has set the table with a great feast, the likes of which we couldn't even imagine before we saw it. And after we have had our fill and our own future is secured, we find that we also have the answer for others in the same situation.
There is a message here on the tip of my tongue, but I am not getting it. Can you help please?
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I think the question had to do with changing the title of the thread, which goes away after so many days, and I think it is 60 days.
Name change can happen any time, I believe and many have changed their names for only a day or part of a day and then changed back.
It was in reference to changing the thread. However, Mimi, I like your idea of changing my name. For a few reasons. One, I would be less conspicious should anyone EVER think of visiting this sight and Two, it would be a new name for me with my new life that I am creating. What do you think to me changing it to Queenie?
Ok, I have taking some steps for my new life this afternoon. After work, I met with a realtor agent who is going to begin the process of helping me look for two types of houses.
One for me and my boys and one in case H comes home. I am really concentrating on my own to be honest, but keeping that other door open. She knows what I want, price range is what we are looking at and I feel excitement inside. I am working towards building my new future instead of waiting on H to come back. Who knows where this takes me, but I can keep trying.
Then I signed on yesterday to a family blog. I have a real family. I hardly ever talk to them, but I really have a family.
Perfect, since I already seem to be calling you that, along with about half the board.
But won't your Skins be disappointed? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
The story is in Numbers chapter 11 and I actually already used it in a post on my Musings thread.
But the story in II Kings has to do with trusting God to care for us when we are at our end. When we have done all we can do and are about to expire from our efforts, that is when we have to face that which scares us to death head on.
And once we face those fears, we so often find that God has already planned a way through the crisis and will not only give us exactly what we need, but a surplus as well.
And then, once our own needs have been taken care of, it is God's continued blessing that gives us what we can share with others so that they too, can share in the blessing.
Just like the lepers who were near death and without any hope, we have to reach the end of ourselves; not only were they saved, but through them the entire kingdom as well and all because they did the unthinkable and went to the enemy camp.
When Elisha told the king what was about to happen and said how cheap food was about to become, the king's right hand man asked, "If God should open a window in heaven, might this be?"
When God closes a door, He always opens a window...and pours out a blessing on any who trust Him completely. Those who doubt, miss the blessing and not only them, but those who could be helped by them as well.
So, do you follow what I'm getting at yet? Or do I need to spell it out for ya? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
And I think the story Mark was telling, which is awesome, is that if you take the steps to face your fears and trust God to help you during it, that those fears will be nothing for you to overcome because God has taken care of it for you.
The Lepers were afraid to go to the enemy camp but faced their fears and did it anyway. When they arrived, God scared away the enemy and they were able to eat their food and share it with other people.
I think in your case, I see this as a lesson to go into plan B where you will get peace, if you trust God to take care of it and not worry about the enemy (WH & PBL).
SG, I've been were you are at before and I cannot tell you how freeing it was when I decided that I was going to live for ME and not worry about what my H did. Funny, that's when my H came back. He found it attractive on me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
So, do you follow what I'm getting at yet? Or do I need to spell it out for ya?
No, I think you pretty much just spelled it out for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thank you though for the offer, however, I might need to take a rain check in case I get in the WAY again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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But won't your Skins be disappointed?
There was a time in my life, well say about 8.5 months ago when I couldn't have done it because I was defined by my love for this team.
Today, I am defined by what G-d is creating in me and I no longer needs to be skinsgal as that definition. I just want to pick the right new name. And I like Queenie..
Oooops....I wanted to help her out in case you didn't come back sooner Mark. I wanted her to go to bed with that story in her head. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
SG, I've been were you are at before and I cannot tell you how freeing it was when I decided that I was going to live for ME and not worry about what my H did.
Ok, on to Plan B. I am looking around for an example of Plan B, can you help me maybe find one that I can modify?
I don't know anything about the blood diet, Queenie.
The diabetic diets are good and are the basis for things like Weight Watchers.
You can also get a customised diet plan for free at sparkpeople.com. And there are pretty cool online tracking tools there that will set goals, count your calories and exercise.
I'll try that website..and check into a food plan there.
I have this idea everyone....Tell me if it's bad or not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When WH AA birthday roles around I will be in Plan B... I was thinking of creating a ecard that I can send to him on that day.. Saying something like.....
Happy 19th Bday...... I ordered this card for you on January 28th b/c I knew that I wouldn't be in your life on your AA birthday. I figured out the date like I said I would and wanted you to know that I hope you honor your 19 years of sobriety.
And may you find recovery along with your sobriety.... LOL - ok, I'll leave that part off.
Seriously, should I create it and have it sent on that day?
Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated that vow under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together.
I know that you’ve been unhappy for a while, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of. I have come to understand and accept responsibility that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness. I’ve worked extremely hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
G-d has instilled in me that we can have a brand new, loving, and completely fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and commitment we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that became the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our childrens’. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said “I do”. I’m not naive, I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from learning about your relationship with OW and dealing with our marriage falling apart and your decision to leave our home. I never once stopped loving you and I have not forgotten what a wonderful man you are. I know you better than anyone else, and I believe in you completely. It is my love and faith in G-d that has given me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.
I do not want this. I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want to intimacies that we always dreamed about, to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, as well as share the joy of raising a family with you. I want my soul mate to come home. As much as I want this, you have made it clear that you don’t, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the mother of your children, it is simply too painful.
Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me at all. This is something I believe is necessary to preserve and protect the love I still have for you before it slips away completely. Should you need to get ahold of me for an emergency or contact me in any way, AB will be an intermediary for is. He can be reached at xxxx or emailed at xxx.
Your children are old enough to make their own decisions whether they want see you or not. I will not encourage or discourage them in spending time with you or talking with you. Your relationship with them is what you are making it, it is your responsibility. I will continue to be the best mother I can be and do whatever is necessary to insure our children’s happiness and make their lives as fulfilling as possible. Please understand that this continuing separation will have lifelong effects on them that can be stopped if you came home.
If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance. By giving it a chance, that means, the OW is no longer a part of your life, and you are willing to work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.
I'm all about cutting it down to everything I want to say and too the point. His attention span ia a gnat... And I'm not kidding on that. Blows me away. So let's start hacking...
Darn..... ok.....I'll take it out and repost it and see what people think.
Updated version....
My dearest WH,
Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated that vow under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together.
I know that you’ve been unhappy for a while, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of. I have come to understand and accept responsibility that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness. I’ve worked extremely hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
G-d has instilled in me that we can have a brand new, loving, and completely fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and commitment we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that became the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our childrens’. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said “I do”. I’m not naive, I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from learning about your relationship with OW and dealing with marriage fall apart and your decision to leave our home. I never once stopped loving you and I have not forgotten what a wonderful man you are that I married. It is my love and faith in G-d that has given me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.
I do not want this. I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you. I want my soul mate to come home. As much as I want this, you have made it clear that you don’t, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the mother of your children, it is simply too painful. Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me at all. This is something I believe is necessary to preserve and protect the love I still have for you before it slips away. Should you need to get ahold of me for an emergency or contact me in any way, Alex Blackwell will be an intermediary for me. He can be reached at xxxx or emailed at xxx.
If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance. By giving it a chance, that means, the OW is no longer a part of your life, and you are willing to work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.
Dang girl! I go away for a second and you go change into a whole new woman! A new name and ready to kick [censored]. Alright.....let's get going.
First off, you can 86 the idea of the e-card. Once you go into plan B, WH gets NOTHING from you in the way of needs being met. Comprende? (sp?...lol...)
The letter is way too long. Shorten it and get to the point. See if you can find the killer B thread and look for examples on there too.
And most importantly, read everything you can about what plan B is about first! This is serious stuff and you need to how it works. It's simple, but hard as one other poster has said.
I think you need to get it down to about 1/3 of its present length. All he is going to read is "blah blah blah."
You need to say: 1. Your choice to keep going in an A has damaged our family 2. To protect myself I am removing myself from you 3. I understand what I did wrong; I am sorry and I have changed 4. When you are ready to end the A, we can talk again. 5. Until then talk to me through ______ for strictly necessary communications. Otherwise, do not contact me at all, for any reason.
Take this with a grain of salt because I am not a Plan B expert by any means. Just my opinion.
I get what you are saying.... Let's see what others say and I will cut it down as needed. I'm not attached to it, just want it to be perfect. NO PRESSURE there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Chrys covered just about everything but one thing.
You have to give him a path back home. Tell him what is necessary to return home. Like NC with the OW, and a no contact letter, transparency?, etc. They need something to do to prove that they are serious and that you know they are serious.
WS, Your choice to stay in this A is exceedingly damaging to our marriage and our family. The depth that I love you is beyond words, but I am choosing to protect myself from you. Because of my growing relationship with G-d, I understand what I did wrong am very sorry and have changed to ensure it doesn't happen again.
When you are ready to end the A and want to come home we can talk. Please know that before that can happen, you will need to end all contact with OW, be willing to write a no contact letter together telling her we are working on our marriage, and be willing to create the marriage that G-d always envisioned for us through honesty, openness and complete commitment to our covenant vows.
Until then, contact me through AB for strictly necessary communications. Otherwise, do not contact me at all for any reason.
I love you, WH and want you to come home, but you have to want that too, and until you do, I am setting you free to live your life while I live mine.
That's pretty darn good Queenie but try to pass it by some of the other vets tommorow first. Besides that, you need to make sure you know all about plan b.
Oooops, that wasn't a really good link. But if you click on MF's link on that thread, you may be able to find your way to the killer bee thread through there somehow. I am pretty sure MarriedForever was a part of the killer B thread.
SG, you have no idea how much that means to me. That God can take all my pain and suffering and make it good.
I just reread this. I hope that G-d can do this with me as well. I want to help others get through their pain one day and know that what I give them is as good and helpful as your wisdom, strength, faith and so many others.
I think that's why this forum exists.... to help those who come after us, like AA teaches....
My story from the ashes of existence to how it ends will be a success one day that G-d will shine down on and be very proud. And that will be because you and so many others stayed with me and wouldn't let me destroy myself when that was all I wanted to do.
Thanks for the link. I am starting to put together my Plan B emergency kit.
Queenie, just seems to have progressed and become a part of me for various reasons. I like it actually. I might even put the GODDESS touch to it somehow, like get my sunglasses personalized. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
James,
I don't think I am doing awesome at all. Plan A isn't much of a success anymore. WH has no reaction or even seems to care one way or another. But yes I am beginning the transition. Have the initial letter started and praying hard to G-d to help.
Mark has really helped me along with scripture from Exodus and Numbers.... My ignorance of Torah is really showing these days.
WS, Your choice to stay in this A is exceedingly damaging to our marriage and our family. The depth that I love you is beyond words, but I am choosing to protect myself from you. Because of my growing relationship with G-d, I understand what I did wrong am very sorry and have changed to ensure it doesn't happen again.
When you are ready to end the A and want to come home we can talk. Please know that before that can happen, you will need to end all contact with OW, be willing to write a no contact letter together telling her we are working on our marriage, and be willing to create the marriage that G-d always envisioned for us through honesty, openness and complete commitment to our covenant vows.
Until then, contact me through AB for strictly necessary communications. Otherwise, do not contact me at all for any reason.
I love you, WH and want you to come home, but you have to want that too, and until you do, I am setting you free to live your life while I live mine.
How's that?
Queenie, the gist is there, but I think it is still too many words. Somebody said recently that WS's must lose at least 40 IQ points, and I think that must be true!
Also, I think I would limit the G-d talk in this letter. I don't know your H, but I know mine got awfully sensitive and defensive on this subject.
JMHO-- I myself would be a little vague on exactly what you will need in a NC letter at this point. You want it to be negotiated with you ahead of time, not something he does without your input and tells you about later (One of my false recoveries had this lovely feature--and it amounted to a plan with her to fake NC!.)
Here is how I would change it: WS, Your choice to stay in this A is exceedingly damaging to our marriage and our family. The depth that I love you is beyond words, but I now need to protect myself from you. I understand what I did wrong in our marriage. I am very sorry. I have made many changes in order to become the kind of wife you always wanted. I will not be in a relationship with you unless you have ended contact with OW forever and are prepared to prove this to me and begin working together to build a healthy marriage. When you are ready to take that step, I will be happy to share with you the kind of actions you need to take. When you are ready to end the A forever and want to come home we can talk. Until then, contact me through AB for strictly necessary communications. Otherwise, do not contact me at all for any reason.
I love you, WH and want you to come home, but you have to want that too, and until you do, I am setting you free to live your life while I live mine.
Others may have different takes, and I am not a Plan B authority at all!
LilSis did a beautiful Plan B letter, as I recall. The only thing I don't like about my bare bones approach is that it doesn't really tell him one last time how much you love him. Her letter was a masterpiece that way. You might want to try to check it out.
Well, I too am seeing diminishing returns on Plan A. It's essentially the cycle that WS' all too easily take things and people for granted so long as it benefits them. Of course, when we take that 'support' away from them we're suddenly the bad guys all over again.
Can't tell you how much I've heard from WW about how I've saddled her with this or that and have been the reason she's not on her feet on her own already. Not my problem anymore.. she has a way out, and it's between her and God as to how she handles that.. I'm getting on with my life as it is.. one of the reasons I think I'm thinking in a Plan B direction these days.
DS is doing ok, he said last night that he felt better and had been playing all day, so that's good. Emotionally I know things are hard on him, and I can only imagine how difficult all of this must be for DSD. Still I'm painted as the bad guy because I'm not going along with her 'plan'.. and am seen as the one throwing roadblocks in her path. While I'm praying for the roadblocks.. I'm not erecting them. This mess is hers to own and clean up. I'll help but only under the condition that she returns to the marriage and honestly works at it. I've had my own messes to clean up, and have for the most part.
And if someone can find LilSis' PBL I'd love to have a gander at it.
While I'm praying for the roadblocks.. I'm not erecting them.
And that's how it should be.
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I've had my own messes to clean up, and have for the most part.
And that's all we can do because that's what G-d wants us to do.
It's tough, no doubt about it. And we are certainly gaining strength (comfort), but it hurts. One day we won't have this hurt so deep.
One day the good that G-d is creating will be revealed or at least in part and we will live a life beyond our greatest hope or thoughts. I know that's what keeps me going now. My new name says it all... Queenies New Life.
Thanks Chrys, Let's keep working on it and I will look for LilSis' letter.
Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated that vow under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together.
I LOVE THIS PART! I think you should include it in entirety. In my view, the PBL is a LOVE LETTER and you want to start out talking about the LOVE in your RELATIONSHIP. You want to catch his interest. You want him to continue reading and not run to the shredder!!
Unlike B's WH, my H kept the PBL and quoted part of it back to me when he was working on reconciliation: But, "You said..etc..."
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I have come to understand and accept responsibility that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness. I’ve worked extremely hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
I like this too! Leave off the first sentence of the second paragragh where you talk about HIM..when you say that YOU KNOW how HE FEELS, that is a DJ.
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I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want to intimacies that we always dreamed about, to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, as well as share the joy of raising a family with you. I want my soul mate to come home.
I love this part, too. MAYBE THIS SHOULD BE THE FIRST SENTENCE or included in tht FIRST PARAGRAPH. This BEAUTIFUL STATEMENT is buried too deeply in the letter and may get lost.
Then, BE CLEAR with him. Say: Do not contact me at all and I will not contact you UNTIL ____________.
I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want those intimacies that we always dreamed about, to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, as well as share the joy of raising a family with you. Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated our vows under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together.
I’ve worked extremely hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
G-d has instilled in me that we can have a brand new, loving, and completely fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and commitment we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that became the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our children’s. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said “I do”. I’m not naive; I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from learning about your relationship with OW, dealing with our marriage falling apart and your decision to leave our home. I never once stopped loving you and I have not forgotten what a wonderful man you are. I know you better than anyone else, and I believe in you completely. It is my love and faith in G-d that has given me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.
As much as I want you to come home, you have made it clear that you don’t, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the mother of your children, it is simply too painful.
Therefore, do not contact me at all and I will not contact you UNTIL you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance. By giving it a chance, that means, the OW is no longer a part of your life, and you are willing to work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes. Should an emergency arise you can reach AB at and he will contact me.
Remember the day that we were in class together and you worked with me to bring down all my walls and you realized how much I truly loved you and had for our whole life. Tap into that my darling, because not only did it always exist, but continues to grow even during this difficult time.
As much as I want you to come home, you have made it clear that you don’t, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the mother of your children, it is simply too painful.
I would delete THIS PARAGRAPH.
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Therefore, do not contact me at all and I will not contact you UNTIL you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance.
Change this sentence to: In order to PRESERVE the LOVE that I have left for you, I've come to the decision to no longer have any contact with you until you end your relationship with OW (write her name). Until that time, contact B, etc. MAKE THIS SHORT AND SWEET....He will know how to reach me.
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Remember the day that we were in class together and you worked with me to bring down all my walls and you realized how much I truly loved you and had for our whole life. Tap into that my darling, because not only did it always exist, but continues to grow even during this difficult time.
Forever Your Bright Eyes,
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this....
IMO, you're done with the letter once you make these changes...see what others have to say...
I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want those intimacies that we always dreamed about, to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, as well as share the joy of raising a family with you. Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated our vows under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together.
I’ve worked extremely hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
G-d has instilled in me that we can have a brand new, loving, and completely fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and commitment we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that became the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our children’s. To have a new incredible marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams is within our reach. The kind of marriage we both committed to when we said “I do” each time. I’m not naive; I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from learning about your relationship with OW, dealing with our marriage falling apart and your decision to leave our home. I never once stopped loving you and I have not forgotten what a wonderful man you are. I know you better than anyone else, and I believe in you completely. It is my love and faith in G-d that has given me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.
In order to PRESERVE the LOVE that I have left for you, I've come to the decision to no longer have any contact with you until you end your relationship with OW. Until that time, contact B, at. He will know how to reach me.
By giving it a chance, that means, the OW is no longer a part of your life, and you are willing to work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes. Should an emergency arise you can reach AB at and he will contact me.
Remember the day that we were in class together and you worked with me to bring down all my walls and you realized how much I truly loved you and had for our whole life. Tap into that my darling, because not only did it always exist, but continues to grow even during this difficult time.
In order to PRESERVE the LOVE that I have left for you, I've come to the decision to no longer have any contact with you at all UNTIL you end your relationship with OW and give us another chance. I will not talk to you or see you. Contact B in order to reach me. I believe that we can work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.
Remember the day that we were in class together and you worked with me to bring down all my walls and you realized how much I truly loved you and had for our whole life. Tap into that my darling, because not only did it always exist, but continues to grow even during this difficult time.
I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want those intimacies that we always dreamed about, to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, as well as share the joy of raising a family with you. Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated our vows under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together not matter what adversity we had faced. You and I together faced whatever came our way together and succeeded because we are meant to be together as husband and wife.
I’ve worked particularly hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
G-d has instilled in me that we can have a brand new, loving, and completely fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and commitment we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that became the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our children’s. To have a new incredible marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams is within our reach. The kind of marriage we both committed to when we said “I do” each time. I’m not naive; I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from learning about your relationship with OW, dealing with our marriage falling apart and your decision to leave our home. I never once stopped loving you and I have not forgotten what a wonderful man you are. I know you better than anyone else, and I believe in you completely. It is my love and faith in G-d that has given me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.
In order to PRESERVE the LOVE that I have left for you, I've come to the decision to no longer have any contact with you at all UNTIL you end your relationship with OW and give us another chance. I will not talk to you or see you. Contact B in order to reach me. I believe that we can work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.
Remember the day that we were in class together and you worked with me to bring down all my walls and you realized how much I truly loved you and had for our whole life. Tap into that my darling, because not only did it always exist, but continues to grow even during this difficult time.
Forever Your Bright Eyes,
Mimi - It's still not perfect for me. I want to think about it as a love letter and see if there is anything to change. I feel like I have to hit home the point that i want to make him the most important person in my life or something to that effect. This is crucial for me. Any suggestions. It's close but not perfect yet.
Next to do is the goodbye box. How much should I put into it?
OK.... I'm just nervous it's not perfect. But then again, I just have to give it to G-d as well, don't I.... and have FAITH it will be ok no matter what, right?
I was about 2 weeks from Plan B when tst approached me to reconcile.
BUT I had pretty much gone Plan B as much as possible. But due to certain circumstances, I had to wait another couple weeks for some closure of issues.
I could just hear him now....."That was a mistake!"......lol......I'd leave it alone.
I don't mean to say that to hurt. It's just that waywards will turn EVERYTHING around.
{{{{[Queenie}}}}
I know you are right of course. Writing this letter has certainly brought up nostalgia for me and how happy we were and how hard we worked for our marriage. I know it's an ADDICTION. I know it, but G-d I wish it was drugs instead. Then it might seem more obvious to him and he would still be at home.
I just realized I am too sentimental and old fashioned for this society. Not the best of traits to have when you are faced with affairs, separation and divorce.
I love, love the new name. It suits you perfectly.
I also think your PBL is fine. IMHO, it is not important that it is pefect, but that it is YOUR voice. When I read it, I hear the woman that you are. That is what should be there as you speak to WH.
In contrast, my PBL was pretty short and to the point. It wsa not a love letter per se, because quite frankly, that's not me. And my WH would have read something very sentimental from me as being fake.
But you have good guidance here. You know that I am with you as you jounrney in to Plan B.
I love you Queenie. We all do and are here for you.
I know you are right of course. Writing this letter has certainly brought up nostalgia for me and how happy we were and how hard we worked for our marriage. I know it's an ADDICTION. I know it, but G-d I wish it was drugs instead. Then it might seem more obvious to him and he would still be at home.
That particular memory would be best to bring up with your husband, not WH. When/if he comes back, he'll fight for you again.
I promise you Queenie, you will be happy again, with or without him. I know you want it to be with him but you sure don't want some ole stupid, selfish wayward. Now do ya?
To answer your earlier question to me: A Noachide/Bnei Noach/Noahide is a gentile who follows the 7 laws of Noah. Somtimes referred to as 'righteous gentiles.' A good site to get more information is http://www.noahide.com/index.htm. I often joke with my family that its 'Judaism Lite' sort of like how some Episcopalians call their religion 'Catholicism without the guilt.' *chuckle* Of course the website I linked is run by Hasidic Jews and I can tell you I am definately not as orthodox as they are, but I can learn a lot from them and respect them very much.
Queenie, I love the new name. Its perfect.
One thing though...what the heck is a goodbye box? Sorry, but the only thing your WH should get is that PBL.
Here is the online exchange between WH and myself. In lieu of the conversation I had with our MC, it fits perfectly.
BS: Have a wonderful day husband. I will be thinking about you all day. WS: I just sent you a message. What are you doing up? BS: I was hoping to see you and wish you a good day. I miss you WS: Got to go have a good day.
Bam he was gone. There is turmoil in his life. Please keep praying that G-d helps him hit rock bottom.
Mark
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Did you read anything in Numbers since last night?
Yes, I did. Though it's really confusing and I am having a tough time understanding. I skipped over the census part and started reading about G-ds instructions about the Levites. The interesting thing.... my mother mentioned once that her side of the family I believe can be traced back to the Levites. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Anyways, I find myself having a hard time understanding the message. So I am going to push forward, and write down questions that come up. Ok?
TMTS,
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Checking in on you, are you alright? I've been watching you post you PBL all day, that can't be easy.
I am doing ok. Yes it's hard because I am not sure the letter is exactly what I want to say. I need to leave it be and see. I'm sad inside because of the conversation I had with our MC. She confirmed things that I knew, but didn't want to go there on. I'm scared for him.
Smartie,
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I love you Queenie. We all do and are here for you.
I wouldn't have made it this far without you all on here. AND THAT IS NO LIE... I'm glad you like the new name.
Mopey,
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I promise you Queenie, you will be happy again, with or without him. I know you want it to be with him but you sure don't want some ole stupid, selfish wayward. Now do ya?
I can't see this, and just truly WALK in FAITH that you are right. And no, I don't want any ole stupid, selfish, destructive wayward at home. I can honestly say I don't want that. He is toxic and it will be awful to be around him all the time.
Mojo,
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Queenie, I love the new name. Its perfect.
One thing though...what the heck is a goodbye box? Sorry, but the only thing your WH should get is that PBL.
Thank you about the name. I like it too actually. I might modify it when I get into Plan B...QueenieBsNewLife
The goodbye box was something that Mimi and I discussed because my opportunities for Plan A are so limited. I need to really go out with a bang and giving him this will be one more lasting impression how things have changed in my life and giving him the understanding of what it would be like for him if he were to come home.
It will include pictures, fudge <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and whatever else I pray about. Thanks for the heads up on the Noachide. Is your family Jewish?
Last night I had a long conversation with our old MC. The one that WH lied to while we were going to her. She just really reinforced everything I knew already but in a little different way. She talked about how he has just shut down as a person and reverted to being a teenager. She doesn't believe in the sanctity of marriage and thinks I should just move on and divorce him. Obviously that is where I shut down on what she was saying.
However, she confirmed that there is NO WAY the WH is living in reality. He can't because he can't or won't allow himself to face up to what has happened. She completely supports the addiction notiong and says that she doesn't think he will ever come around. Good thing she isn't G-d, or his wife. Because I am not giving up on him. I KNOW the person who is fighting inside.... And I am fighting for that person as well. Just the only way I can. By letting him go and letting G-d work on him.
The other piece was she blamed me in many ways or blamed our marriage as well. Clearly she can see that this was never about our M, but about the person WH was and wasn't willing to work through. So for me, it helps me to hold my head up high and know that I did everything I could in the M, and that when I began making the changes toward our M becoming healthy, WH was not willing to and chose another path. Does that make sense? It doesn't change anything, but it give me relief of my responsibility that I was this horrible wife who neglected and drove her H out of the house. Intellectually I know that's not true. But my spirit didn't and I need reinforcement on knowing that I did everything I could for years. But this WAS NEVER ABOUT ME, it was the spiritual battle inside my H all along.
My sole responsibility was in allowing what was happening to change me and not seek G-d for his guidance and will.
One thing though...what the heck is a goodbye box? Sorry, but the only thing your WH should get is that PBL.
Sorry Queenie, but I agree with mojodiva here. All he should get is a short, to-the-point Plan B letter...not a box full of sappy sentiments or a dripping letter. (NO offense meant here, I hope you hear my loving tone.)
AND I realize you have been following Mimi's advice to the T, so you may not agree with us on the box...that's OK, ya know, we still love you, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I just got horrible news.. A teenage boy that played with my children for many many years was found dead this morning.
He was a special needs child and I was very close to his mom through the years.
Life is too short to play this game. I need my H for comfort and he isn't there and possibly never will be. Why do I keep trying. Why can't I just cut my losses and move on.
I haven't called him simply because he isn't capable of any real emotion and I don't need him flipping game or even have the remote expectation he might care.
I'm processing what is going on inside of me, but I have to tell ya. I deserve something better than an empty husband who may or may not figure it out. Or even care that his family is in deep pain over the loss of someone very young.
I am not sure and will keep you posted. He has been having mini seizures the last few days, and at one point they thought he was having a stroke, so they called the dr and was going to take him today.
Mom put him to sleep last night and rocked him to bed. When she woke up to tell him he wasn't going to school she couldn't find him. She went downstairs to look for him and get mad at him for getting out of bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But he wasn't there.
She went back upstairs and found him wrapped up in his blanket, gone.
I have know this child since he was 3 years old. Our kids all played together at the lake during summers.
I can't even imagine what his mom is going through because he was her very special one. The other two boys have had their troubles through the years and he just was so special to her.
Sometimes life snaps us out of our self pity and depression and shows us someone who has it worse.
Be there for your friend.. I know you're hurting.. but you can be the strength for someone else. A lot of the tools you're learning to cope here can help her too.. you know how to be the compassionate friend.. put your arms around your friend in this time and be there for her.
God will take good care of him Queenie.. all of his special needs can be met and exceeded now.
We're all 'special needs' kids to God.. I'm sure there is a wonderful place for him now.
Be there for your friend.. I know you're hurting.. but you can be the strength for someone else. A lot of the tools you're learning to cope here can help her too.. you know how to be the compassionate friend.. put your arms around your friend in this time and be there for her.
I already have..... We are a very close neighborhood.
Snap out of my self pity... no kidding.... It's more that I realized that life is so short. Why am I hanging on to a man who clearly thinks of me as garbage and wants nothing to do with me as his wife or his kids. He is way happier with crack head...
He believes he is way happier with crack head. I am betting on hope that he will come around, where I could just move on and let him go and live his life out where he thinks he's happier.
Who am I to say he isn't. In his mind he truly believes it.
It's not a pity party. I am just wondering... Am I really following in G-d's will by hanging on to a grown man who clearly wants nothing to do with me. He loves this woman and I'm the one judging if he is happy or not. Do I even have that right. It's his life...
Thanks for that note, very nuturing for the soul. I'm not doing as bad as I may sound. Really I'm just posting my stinkin thinkin to see if there is anything that makes sense of it. I need to slow down though becasue this is all just expectations and that will hurt me in the end.
But he doesn't give one care about me or losing me....
And that's what hurts.
But dang... do I hang on forever hoping and living alone or cut my losses and learn my lessons.
We don't exactly know what is REALLY going on with our WSs and their addiction. I feel you...he doesn't seem to care about you b/c of his actions and what he says...but keep praying and keep the faith. If you want to stay in the marriage, then you know what to do...if you don't then you still know what to do.
I am so sorry to hear about this young man's life ending.That is just tragic and I can't even begin to imagine the depths of your friend's despair and your own grief.
My issue with your goodbye box (and thankfully SMB spoke up on it, too)is that you, with love, will give this man things of sentimental value... which he will then toss in the backseat of his car and forget about. Heck, bet he shares his brownies with his crackhead ho. These types of loving gestures are completely LOST on your WH. Your WH seems to be the most rigid WH I've seen here. Which is also why I was pushing for Plan B ASAP.
You are unfortunately getting no where with him with Plan A. Your Plan A has been stellar. I hav a feeling your WH will be one of those that it takes actually removing you from his life before he feels/gets it/sees what he is doing. At the same time, you NEED the peace. I think the majority of us see that.
So what you do is Plan B. Give him the letter. A bang isn't going to do a thing with this guy, but I'm betting, that over time, the fact that YOU had the audacity to decide anything in your relationship with him actually WILL get his attention. It may take awhile because I have a hunch he'll think you are being dramatic, but the better you stick to your plan B the better off YOU will be.
And to answer your earlier question-- no my family is not Jewish. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I would LOVE to find out that one of my Italian or German great-great-grandmothers was Jewish, but as I can only go back about three generations, so far they weren't. Some of my Orthodox mentors often say that gentiles who are brought to Judaism may be reincarnated souls who were Jews before or who were there are Mt. Sinai when Moses revealed the Ten Commandments. I always see that as romantic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Queenie, I am so very sorry about your friend's son. And very sorry you are grieving without your husband. I know how much that is hurting you.
Again, I agree with mojodiva on this. I think he is going to blow off your Plan B letter as dramatic. So the less "dramatic" the departure from his life is, the better, in my opinion. I would not put any Plan A stuff into the moment you deliver the PBL. I would let him see the new, strong woman you have become. The woman who does not NEED him to survive and will no longer pine over him. Dress to the hilt, head held high, gotta-go-I-have-plans kind of delivery.
I think he will find that intriguing. If not, who cares. I'm about to say to you what MEDC said to me many times (and I needed to hear it): You have given this man enough of your time. Move on. (I don't mean close the door, but move on.)
Queenie, I think your WS takes you for granted. I think he has not even considered the possibility that you might actually have a backbone and say enough is enough. Show him who you are, my friend.
Oh, and I see in your posts today a real strength rising up in you.
Please receive this in the love I intend it to be given. I think the world of you.
But dang... do I hang on forever hoping and living alone or cut my losses and learn my lessons.
Neither. You follow your plan. You have completed the first phase (Plan A). Now implement Plan B, swiftly.
Mel would tell me on days like you are having that I was feeling emotions that were normal, but I needed to stick to the plan because tomorrow I would feel something different (something like that). I had many days like you are having right now. Thankfully, not for the same reason.
Am I really following in G-d's will by hanging on to a grown man who clearly wants nothing to do with me. He loves this woman and I'm the one judging if he is happy or not. Do I even have that right. It's his life...
You are one flesh with your husband. God made you one, so yes, you have the right to judge him and his adultery as wrong. He is violating your body by sharing his with OW. You have the right to expect him to be faithful.
BUT your PLAN B LETTER is beautiful..and is supposed to be a LOVE LETTER according to the HARLEYS. I'm biased. The PLAN B LETTER that I wrote was much like yours as recommended by Steve Harley. Make sure to include all parts recommended to you by Steve. My PBL meant a lot to my H. He read it over and over during Plan B.
And I don't think that your WH is especially BAD. He is a strongly addicted and garden-variety WH.
HAVE FAITH, Queenie.
((((((Queenie)))))
I'm so sorry to hear about your loss and it is so true that life is much, much too short.
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Why am I hanging on to a man who clearly thinks of me as garbage and wants nothing to do with me as his wife or his kids. He is way happier with crack head...
You know the answer to this doncha, Queenie. He is your husband. God put you together and wants you to be together. When the doubt creeps in, it's the EVIL ONE and he uses everything that he can to get you to lose TRUST and FAITH in the LORD.
"..lean not unto your own understanding "...as you try to cope with the tragedies in your life...
It may take awhile because I have a hunch he'll think you are being dramatic, but the better you stick to your plan B the better off YOU will be.
It will be a long while, because back in October I didn't talk to him for almost a month. He tried to talk to me online and emailed me a couple of times, but I never responded and he didn't follow up with a call, so pretty much didn't care.
Mojo, I think it would be VERY romantic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Your WH seems to be the most rigid WH I've seen here.
Gotta ask, what do you mean by that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
SMB,
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Oh, and I see in your posts today a real strength rising up in you.
Please receive this in the love I intend it to be given. I think the world of you.
First, please always tell me what is on your heart. This journey isn't about my feelings, it's about saving my life and walking in FAITH with G-d. So never hold back what you see or feel.
The strength in me is that I see life as so precious to enjoy. I want to love someone and share my life with someone. That's what life is about. I want it to be my H. But he is LOST and NOTHING THAT I WOULD WANT. He can manage an ounce of compassion for my daughter who calls him for some support. So, yes the strength is building.
I called an ex boss of mine today and made a 9th step amend to her. She has known me since I was 17 years old and said I was so full of life, compassion and love. The excitement I had for life and self assurance. She can't believe what comes out of my mouth these days...She wants me to find that young person again and get back to living. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Queenie, I think your WS takes you for granted. I think he has not even considered the possibility that you might actually have a backbone and say enough is enough. Show him who you are, my friend.
That is where he is wrong. I have more backbone than anyone thinks. I don't want to, but I do.. Today I honestly feel like enough is enough.
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Neither. You follow your plan.
OK.... Keep to MY PLAN... The focus is all about ME and what I WANT.
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You are one flesh with your husband. God made you one, so yes, you have the right to judge him and his adultery as wrong. He is violating your body by sharing his with OW. You have the right to expect him to be faithful.
Then I keep to my plan and move on with my life and if he comes back, LUCKY HIM... He is truly on the verge of losing me forever if he isn't careful. I don't like who he is and what he isn't. I want more and there has to be ONE PERSON out there that I can love with all my heart and not have to change to be able to love them.
Right here being snapped. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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That letter is ALL that he will have of YOU during the DARKEST HOURS of PLAN B...
Think of it that way...
It's possible he will just throw it away and not give a rip what so ever. In fact his actions only say he doesn't give a care about me one bit.
But, if this is about me, then I am giving him this letter because of ME and who I am, WHICH IS THE WIFE THAT LOVES HIM WITH ALL HER HEART. And it doesn't matter what he does with the letter.
I do understand their point though. He treats me like crap and thinks I am garbage and worthless.
And I don't think that your WH is especially BAD. He is a strongly addicted and garden-variety WH.
I need to hear this again and again. It helps me to keep moving on.
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You know the answer to this doncha, Queenie. He is your husband. God put you together and wants you to be together. When the doubt creeps in, it's the EVIL ONE and he uses everything that he can to get you to lose TRUST and FAITH in the LORD.
HE IS, and I LOVE HIM... SO VERY MUCH... I really do. Thank you SMB and Mimi for reminding me of why I am doing this. I have FAITH and understand G-d needs me to trust him and walk in faith... no matter how bad it looks, right?
It's possible he will just throw it away and not give a rip what so ever.
You cannot know this FOR SURE..unless you have SPECIAL POWERS and can foretell the future. That's where FAITH comes in..PRAY your HARDEST that this will not happen.
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In fact his actions only say he doesn't give a care about me one bit.
How is this different than any WH? I know for sure that my H didn't love me anymore. He was "in love" with the HO. He had to fall in love with me again with only a SHRED of his love left for me. I'M SURE that your husband has SOME SHREDS at least left. What it will take is for him to SUFFER and to try. Yes, the ball will be in his court. PLAN B is what YOU can do.
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He treats me like crap and thinks I am garbage and worthless.
My H thought the SAME and did the SAME. The key is how you feel about yourself.
You cannot know this FOR SURE..unless you have SPECIAL POWERS and can foretell the future. That's where FAITH comes in..PRAY your HARDEST that this will not happen.
I can do this....
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Yes, the ball will be in his court. PLAN B is what YOU can do.
I don't know what you mean by this...
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The key is how you feel about yourself.
I am working on this daily... and snapping when needed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
YOU try to PRETEND that he no longer exists...that he belongs to GOD.
I NEED this.... Part of my hardship is waiting on being able to get into Plan B and trying to keep up with Plan A when it's really having no effect. Know what I mean?
Hey Skins, I mean Queenie. Love the new name. Now, you just have to believe it! You *are* moving into a new life, and one that hopefully you can invite WH into with you someday. When that happens, you'll be a better Queenie. You'll see.
I'm hanging in there. Five months now in Plan B and it has been quiet. You know, there are days where I go through the entire day and don't think of WH. I haven't cried in a long time either. My DD says her dad is not with OP anymore, but I'm not sure I believe it. Whether he is or isn't, he has made no attempt to contact me. I guess I've learned to make my own life now.
Decorating is still going on. I do it little by little. Gives me something to keep occupied with.
So it sounds like Plan B is coming up shortly? I think you have Plan A'd about as much as you can. It isn't making a difference anymore, and it's draining you.
I used the word 'rigid' specifically-- he seems immovable, almost arrogant in his dismissive attitude with you. Stiff-necked, stubborn. I'm not saying he is 'bad' or more addicted than anyone else at all, but this guy hasn't given even a momentary pause during Plan A. It will be interesting to see what PLan B will do to him.
PLan B is for you though, I worry about you. I really do.
I used the word 'rigid' specifically-- he seems immovable, almost arrogant in his dismissive attitude with you.
I'm sorry to have misquoted you, Mojo. I put BAD 'cause I couldn't remember the word you used. I'm often busy when I am posting. Plus, I have a middle-aged brain.
I do kinda disagree, though. We can't possibly know the FULL EFFECT of Queenie's Plan A. I do think he was responsive to her visits to the office and her visits to his games. He even had a recent picture of Queenie in his wallet. But, I won't even make much of that. The point is WE CAN'T KNOW for sure...
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PLan B is for you though, I worry about you. I really do.
Mimi- no worries! After you used 'bad' I did worry that Queenie would think I *was* saying he was one of the baddest I had seen, which isn't true (gosh, remember Momwith3Kids, FaithInMe, and DaniinVA's husbands?). He seems to be extremely arrogant to me, though and plays it cool. Let's see how cool he is when he deals with Queenie's freezing of HIM.
I hear in your voice a sadness or resignation. Is this true or are you happier than your words show?
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What's the hold up on PLAN B?
I am waiting for the lawyer to tell me WH can't stop money coming into my account because he gets upset with me for Plan B.
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he seems immovable, almost arrogant in his dismissive attitude with you. Stiff-necked, stubborn.
I would agree. He called the boys tonight to see how they are with this young boys' death. He can't even manage a call of concern to me. Not once in 8 months has he shown one ounce of care that I hurt. How he just dismiss me so harshly. I am a human being who hurts, how can't he even show that I might be hurting or call to see how the mother is doing and if he could help in anyway. Anything that shows he has a heart. I KNOW, HE IS AN ACTIVE ADDICT.
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We can't possibly know the FULL EFFECT of Queenie's Plan A. I do think he was responsive to her visits to the office and her visits to his games. He even had a recent picture of Queenie in his wallet. But, I won't even make much of that. The point is WE CAN'T KNOW for sure...
Only G-d truly knows what is going on. I just have to TRUST HIM.
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I agree that Queenie NEEDS PLAN B..
But the QUEEN will be just fine...
The CREAM rises to the TOP...
Mimi, you won't stop posting to me when I go into Plan B, right? I need your help staying focused and on track, ok?
Oh Mopey, thank you so much. I feel just horrid for the mom, I got to go see her tonight. As you can imagine she is in shock. The one person who I feel really sorry for is my other friend who loved this little boy like a second son. She is going to need me as well. Do you know that at one point today, I asked myself aloud, how can G-d take a 17 year old who have a whole life ahead of him and leave me here with so much pain inside. I But thankfully my co-worker said, G-d needs me to take care of my kids and I really do believe he has plans for me.
If I can take one blessing from this, it's that before this time I couldn't really understand the depth of pain that someone feels. I do now and I know that I can be supportive by just being with both of my friends and letting them do or be whatever they need to. I can be a safe haven to feel the pain and not try and fix it or take it away from them, but walk along side of them as they go through this grief. I didnt know what before this. I need to be grateful to G-d that he can use me.
I read parts of Killer B's thread yesterday. I need to read more obviously.
I'm not scared of the change. I'm just scared its truly the end and I won't ever see or talk to him again. I'm so tired of hurting and feeling like throw away garbage. If you cut me I TRULY BLEED. If you HURT ME, I REALLY DO HURT, DEEPLY.
I was his W, didn't that matter at all for anything? I know I've said it before, but I am walking away from the man I promised to love and commit to forever. It goes against everything I believe and I HURT over IT.
G-d must really have a lot of FAITH in me to survive this.
Man, my emotions are up and down tonight. I guess that's what I get on 2 hours sleep.
Mojo, I have no REASON to believe he will care one way or another if I am in his life or not. It doesn't matter anyways, I need to do Plan B for me. Queenie needs her new life.
So you have seen worse WS? That helps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
If I can take one blessing from this, it's that before this time I couldn't really understand the depth of pain that someone feels.
I know what you mean and I was just thinking about that again today. If 60% of marriages are touched by infidelity, there are a lot of hurting people walking around. And that is just infidelity. I am MUCH more patient and aware if I think anyone is having a bad day. It is amazing to me all of the emotional labor that must take place for people to just get through the day. I would say that I am more emotionally intelligent than I ever was. That is a good thing.
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I'm so tired of hurting and feeling like throw away garbage. If you cut me I TRULY BLEED. If you HURT ME, I REALLY DO HURT, DEEPLY.
Oh Queenie. My heart goes out to you. When my husband left me a few years ago during his affair, I felt JUST LIKE YOU. I was devastated, confused, and I did feel like trash that he tossed away. He didn't even tell me where he was staying. I wish I had known he was in an affair because that would have given me a reason to hate him and I wouldn't have felt as bad as I did. I am not a plan A or B kinda girl. I would have gone straight to plan D I'm sure. We had a pretty miserable marriage and that would have been it.
He told me that he didn't love me and that he didn't think he ever did. He pretty much blamed me for everything and I let him. He convinced me it was my fault. I didn't find MB until 1 1/2 yrs later.
Anyway, after the affair died, he came back but he was still wayward until I caught him again two months before I found MB.
My husband was adamant and convincing in his stance that we were done. Things change Queenie. They can change for you too. But either way, the change is going to be good for you.
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G-d must really have a lot of FAITH in me to survive this.
Back in those dark days, I thought the same thing too. I thought "he's gotta be kiddin me". But I gotta tell ya Queenie, once I realized that I had to move on to protect my heart, it got MUCH better. In three months time I was looking forward to my new life. That was about the same time his affair died and either I was a convenient alternative or he found me attractive again. I honestly feel like it was both.
You're not alone. You will get through this one day at a time. This too WILL pass.
You're not alone. You will get through this one day at a time. This too WILL pass.
Thank you Mopey. I know that I will get through this.
While working through my 9th step last night with my sponsor she said time takes time. I remember in the beginning, time was just the most horrible thing. Today, I don't like it, but I have a way better understanding on how time just takes time.
Mimi, you won't stop posting to me when I go into Plan B, right? I need your help staying focused and on track, ok?
If I stop posting to you, it will be because something happened to me. Make a shout out if that happens. There are folks here that know how to get in touch with me.
My heart was beating fast while reading your post about your H not being there for you during this time. Your H is no different than mine was and most others here with WSes in this ADDICTION. During all of my H's junk, I was caring daily for my GRANDPARENTS who ADORED him and kept asking me WHERE HE WAS. It was VERY HARD on me to cope with their declining health ALL ALONE...VERY UNHAPPY MEMORIES, YUCK..But know that your H is NOT DIFFERENT in this regard.
For some peace of mind I need to realize what my Plan A accomplished. I don't see as it having any effect on him, well at times, but in creating memories. Did it work. Is there something else I can do to finish it up?
Oh I keep forgetting to ask this part. He still is on our cell phone plan and I am paying for him. Obviously that will change once I am in Plan B. How should I address getting the phone back.
Do I ask for it and give him a week to get his numbers off the phone once I tell him I am getting the LSA or what?
Nothing's gonna happen to me...I was trying to say that I'm not going anywhere...
GOOD
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Be cordial with him..talk to him over the phone..when he calls you, etc...nothing very special...
Should I set up the ecard to be sent on his AA birthday but making it known I created it now since I new I wouldn't be around? Or should I let him know beforehand what the date is?
Should I set up the ecard to be sent on his AA birthday but making it known I created it now since I new I wouldn't be around? Or should I let him know beforehand what the date is?
I wouldn't send him an E-Card at all. He clearly doesn't value his AA birthday. He's living with an addict.
He continues to be on our cell phone plan and I am paying for it. Obviously when I go to Plan B he no longer gets to be on that plan and I need the phone back.
I'm not sure of the timing. Do I speak with him about it when I hand him the Plan B letter, have the intermediary tell him or what?
Hi Skinsgal thought I'd give you my 5cents worth!! As you've said before,we are alike in that we like to fix and control situations.. I found plan B scary in the beginning cos you have no control over WH only yourself which is a good thing.. I had to get use to no longer "trying to get WH back home by my actions or words"if you know what I mean..
But slowly as you gain control of your life and have removed yourself from the chaos of the rollercoaster ride,you will start to feel beter.Just keep telling yourself you doing plan B for your own sanity and hopefully to recover your marriage..
Know that I have my D papers,I'm glad I'm in plan B cos WH can't freak at me when he sees my lawyers response!!Ha,Ha
I had to get use to no longer "trying to get WH back home by my actions or words"if you know what I mean..
I do know what you mean.
I want this ride to be over. I feel like I am gambling with the most important aspect of my life, well second... and there isn't anything I can do but just let G-d have it. I have come to terms with it, it saddens me.
I miss him terribly. But there is nothing more for me to do. He is indifferent or simply doesn't care and I'm tired of being cut and bleeding.
I am doing this for my sanity. I just am worried it's for the rest of my life. But fortunately I can remember, I only have today.
I have been catching up on your thread when I can the past couple of days-but it's been too busy with work to post (grades, new semester, new students, crisis of the moment).
I have been praying for your friend and you and your boys when I read about the tragedy and all that you are going through right now-and know that you have been in the very loving and capable hands of the MB family.
I will be back later tonight. Just wanted you to know I'm still around.
What a day. After spending much of it concentrating on my job for a change. I really love my job so much. I went to IC. She is just not supportive of my M and just says for me to move on and just realize he isn't ever coming back. That hurt, deeply.
She just doesn't buy this ADDICTION concept at all, in fact most people don't. That's what is so frustrating, I don't have people in my world to talk to except on here. Have I told you all how grateful I am that you are in my life and haven't given up on me.
But before I left for IC, my MS called me to BRAG about his SENIOR portfolion. THIS IS A HUGE DEAL. He got 187 out of 200, and he did it on his own. I have to say there is a twinge of sadness that WH isn't around to be a part of this amazing success, but he isn't.
This is so incredible. He is my child who I could have lost as a human being. Literally many years ago if someone had called to tell me that he had killed someone, I wouldn't have been surprised. He had that much anger inside him and it was because of me, his dad and the school district we NEVER gave up. Well dad did, at least almost 2 years ago, but I didn't and now he gets to reap the benefit of all the hard work he has done in his short life to go from such an angry young man to the most amazing child who is caring, giving, loyal and successful.
Thank you G-d.... You have blessed me with this child so much. Wow.....
Well the first 8 chapters are pretty much just descriptions of things like who did what in preparation for the dedication of the tabernacle. Then in chapter 9 we see the celebration of Pesach. But in chapter 9 we also see how the Lord Himself led the people and gave them daily direction for their lives and travels. When it was time to leave a place, the Lord, who would cover the tabernacle was with a cloud by day and fire by night, would leave His place above the tabernacle and when He descended at night it meant it was time to camp.
In chapter 10, God gives Moses and Aaron a way to communicate with the entire nation at once using the silver trumpets. and then, the people pack up to leave the place where they received the Law. And Moses convinces his father in law to join them on the journey.
Then in chapter 11 we get to the story of how the people were complaining and grumbling about how bad they thought they had things. The Lord got so angry that he appeared as fire at the edge of the camp and some were consumed by his all consuming fire. But Moses pleaded with the Lord and the fire died down.
Then in 11:4 we begin the story I related the other day about the quail. So why not begin there and read that story and we'll talk about it a bit? Then we can read 12, 13 and 14, then jump to 19, 20, 21 and 22-24 and the important story in 25.And of course we can end with 31 and 32.
So let's start with Numbers 11:4. You give me your thoughts tomorrow and then I'll give you mine. How would that be?
Actually, if you want to cheat and see one application of the story, see my Musings thread on page 7 where I use the story as an illustration.
Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free. Prov 11:21
Hiya Queenie! I like the new name and the new attitude. So happy to hear you are progressing and getting stronger.
I haven't been on in a while, guess I've missed a lot.
I wanted to ask about your son - as my 16yo dau is going through the same angry, blaming, despressed stage - skipping school, disrespectful, running away, and I am at a loss as to what to do for her!
Where is that magic pill? <sigh>
So any advice on this? What did you do for your son?
My DD is in private counseling and even group adolescent anger management. She tried living with her Dad but ran away 3 days ago, staying with a friend now.
Any help from your experience would be appreciated so much.
The week before tst moved out the second time, I was grieving so heavily. I sobbed everyday, most of the day, while he was at work. He would come home late and head to the basement (where he had been sleeping for a few weeks). We had no interaction. That week, I tossed and turned; I flipped and flopped about what to do. I wrote a very long love letter to him, just wanting him to know my heart.
Then I prayed and decided I would not throw my pearls before swine. I did not give him the letter. I instead held onto it.
The day after he left, peace abounded. I had no idea it was coming. But I had a new peace I did not have when he left the first time. I also had a new strength.
I believe that is what lies ahead for you...a new peace and a new strength.
BTW, tst found that letter last month and read it. He was overwhelmed with the love in the letter and sobbed as he read it. I am glad the time came for him to hear those words. (I am in no way comparing this with your Plan B letter; just sharing how much I rejoice that the time did come.)
When is Plan B letter going to be delivered? We WILL be here for you.
Thank you, but I am not sure of the new attitude, though I keep working on it. Act as if, right?
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I wanted to ask about your son - as my 16yo dau is going through the same angry, blaming, despressed stage - skipping school, disrespectful, running away, and I am at a loss as to what to do for her!
Where is that magic pill? <sigh>
So any advice on this? What did you do for your son?
I tried to get my children into counseling and they wouldn't go. Advice..... Follow your heart and give it to G-d.
My friend who just lost her son received a card that talked about the ocean and waves and how all those emotions just come like waves and the thing to do it just ride it out. I guess that's what I did. I honored their feelings because they had every right to them. I held them accountable to their actions and gave consequences when needed, because life went on. I relied on them and that helped them feel useful.
I tried to keep our life as normal as possible. I showed them how hard things were for me and that I was hurting, and that even though they were mad at their dad, I loved him, made a commitment to him and wanted him to come home. No matter what.
I kept asking them to let me know if there was something that I could for them. I left it in their hands to come to me.
And when they were obnoxious, I told them that I didn't find their behavior acceptable and walked away. If it was over the top, they would get a consequence, and when I really couldn't handle it, I walked away and gave them to G-d. One thing my old sponsor tells me, G-d doesn't have grandchildren and I would pray and ask G-d to help them walk through the lessons they had to learn. I had to truly learn I couldn't fix this for them and I had to also realize that maybe they were handling it better than me and I had to honor what they told me.
Wow, I hadn't realized all of that until just now. Thank you for asking.
I can look back on it today and realize how much tighter and closer I am with my children, all of them. I have held my head up high because I am fighting for their father and regardless of the outcome, I walked through this with feelings, dire emotions, dignity and grace as well as showing them to take responsibility when warranted and feel the pain because it HURTS.
They didn't always want to hear it and get mad at me sometimes, but I am modeling behavior I want them to have and that's the only way I know how.
SMB,
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a new peace and a new strength.
I hope you are right.
I am so happy for you and tst. You are my hope that my WW will come home one day. I can just feel the love you have for your FWH and can imagine the depths of hurt you experienced. I really appreciate the time and patience you give me. I'm really trying to be strong. It's just so hard somedays.
Plan B letter will be delivered as soon as A says the paperwork is filed and WH can't mess with my money. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Today is fortunately a good day and I am grateful....
Naw, not being still at all... I'm wooping my ODD's Friend's [censored] on guitar hero, and you can't play that without dancing around.. it's just wrong.
I am finding that I see the words on paper, but I get lost. How do you go about reading scripture. Do you say a prayer, do you have things that you specifically look for.
I'm trying too hard to get to the message, what could you suggest to relax and just be still with the pages?
That may seem stupid, but I run into it a lot. And I would love to learn to work through this...
I really don't know what to tell you Queenie. Maybe it's just that I've been studying the scriptures for so long (over 40 years!) and have been teaching them for a long time as well. I just look for object lessons and analogies in every day life and then think of it in regard to scripture.
Did you read what I wrote about this passage in my Musings thread?
Surely you got some perspective from the story itself. What did you get from what you read. Don't try to make it super verbose or anything, just tell me what you got from it.
Hey Queenie, before you start reading ask God to give you understanding.
When I started reading the Bible about 4 years ago I didn't know how..but keep reading and you'll know how to apply it.
In addition to reading, I also read a lot of Christian Living literature and follow along w/my Bible. I also listen to sermons on TV, Dr. Charles Stanley would be a great start. Of course I go to church and Bible study and take classes during the weekends that help me understand the word. Right now I'm taking a personal ministry class...all that helps me to apply the word to my life.
I think you are doing so great. You're an inspiration.
Hi Queenie- As a high school teacher from the same fine state that you are from, I can say that I understand what an amazing accomplishment your son's portfolio score was. Congratulate him for me!
I also understand how it is to look back and realize that the struggle we (BS) have gone through has made us (we and our kids) a family without the WS. In spite of our struggle and pain, we have given our children a place of refuge.
Hang in there.
Are we going to get together next week-end? I have Fri and Mon off. OS is coming home from college if he isn't snowed in. They closed his school for 2 days for the first time in 20 years due to the snow. Also, YS has a drill meet on Sat. Let me know.
Hi JT, next weekend or the 15th? Yes, we are going to get together.
Mark and My1st, I need to come back to your comments. My brain is totally fuzzy. I tossed and turned all night AGAIN. I think this week I have had about 8 hours sleep. I'm exhausted.
I had ANOTHER dream with him it. This was was longer and so realistic. We were at our newly remodeled house, though it didn't look like it, but our neighbor/contractor was there with his wife and some other neighbors to enjoy the celebration of the house. We were sitting around a circle, where I thanked the neighbors for what they had done. When it got to WH and he just became selfish and bragging about the effort he put into the remodeling of the house and should be recognized for that.
We were all in shock in the intensity of his anger. I remember our boys being there and everyone got up and left us alone or we left the room to a part of the house where I was crying and trying to reach him. Talk to him, get my H to come back. He kept resisting, and then finally he walked over to this cabinet against a wall that he pushed up against and the wall took him around. After two times, I could see that my H was peeking through and I grabbed my chance. I could tell because he knew how ridiculous he was looking, how ridiculous this whole situation and yet he wouldn't give in. It was like his hand was in the cookie jar, he was busted but wouldn't admit anything.
My passion took over and I kept trying to reach him, he kept pushing me away until suddenly he told me that he loved me, he wasn't ready to come home. And then I asked him to help me understand what was going on inside of him. I didn't want to fix it, just understand. What is the TRUTH?
He started to soften, it was in his eyes, he grabbed me to him and held me like my H and told me he loved me. And started to talk, but I woke up.
After all this time, why am I dreaming of him NOW like this when all the other dreams very clearly had the WH absolutely in control and wasn't coming home.
I'm confused, could this be a sign from G-d to just keep doing what I am doing and there is hope on the horizon. A message that my H still loves me deep down inside, but he just isn't ready to come home? And it's only a matter of time that happens.
I'm not changing my plans of going dark or building a new life, I just am confused why so close to each other I am experiencing my H in two dreams. I have asked G-d for some signs lately Can he speak to me in dreams? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I've had dreams that seemed so real that I wondered what they meant. I could just never figure out if they meant I was to change what I was doing or keep along the same path.
Or maybe they meant I should have stopped before that last slice of pizza.
Can God speak to you in dreams? It's one of the ways He has spoken to people throughout the centuries, so I'd say He can and might.
The secret to understanding what He's telling you is that it must be in agreement with what He's already said. Because God does not contradict what He has already commanded. So anything we think He is saying must be in agreement with what is already found in scripture.
But it is often hard to tell what the scriptures say about our every day life circumstances because seldom does God specifically address our individual trials. But He very often does address our trials by principle. What God says about things in the scriptures as to how He feels or commands in certain cases that He has seen to make available to us for our own enlightenment can shed light and hope on what we experience by inference.
This is why it becomes so important to understand the whole of scripture rather than just dwelling on a single part or passage. Because I might be able to take a single passage and twist it to mean something that God did not intend within context. So what we think God is telling us must not only be something we can make a case for from a single reference, but it must be in line with scripture in its entirety.
But of course that isn't really what you are asking, is it?
What you want to know is if God is telling you that you are going the right way or if you need to change your plans in order to make something specific come about.
Sometimes the best way to determine if what we are doing is supposed to be different is to determine if God says anything in his scriptures that tells us that what we are doing is wrong. And I think you have done all that God requires you to do and now wants you to just let Him take care of the whole situation, not only your WH, but you as well.
God doesn't expect us to suffer in order to show that we love Him and are willing to obey His law and commands. So what we have been discussing here for a few weeks now is to give your WH to God and stop worrying about whether or not there is something more YOU should be doing.
You need peace in your life Queenie, and that is what Plan B is about, you finding peace and stability.
Will he eventually come home? Maybe. Rest assured that when he does, if he does, that he will be a totally broken and self loathing human being who will require your help in order to function. If he ever wakes up from his dream, Queenie, he will need you to be strong again for him in order to recover. So no matter what he does, you need to gather strength and be ready, either to move on without him, or to help him return.
Throughout the history of Israel, God chastises the nation for being stiff necked. That means that they were not humble before Him. They held too high of opinion of themselves and therefore saw their success as their own doing. The trouble with that thinking is that when we see ourselves as our source of success, we have a hard time of accepting that we must also be the reason for our failures. So we begin to blame others, sometimes including God for our failures. But as soon as all is going well, we think it was all our doing.
In order to come to a place of understanding that everything we are and have comes from God and is simply a gift to us because He loves us, God sometimes has to let us play that out to the end. Until we change our thinking we are stuck in a place where we are blaming others for our failures and being prideful over what we think is success.
Until your WH comes to the end of his own pride and can humble himself before God, he is not likely to humble himself before you in order to reconcile. And that is what God wants from him more than He wants you to be married... He wants your husband to be humble before God...
To that end, God will allow your WH to have things his own way and see where it leads him, because it will surely lead him to being broken, and then once he is broken, God can restore him and lead him...maybe even lead him back to you, but that isn't the most important part of it to God. And God might eventually use you moving on without him to bring your WH to the end of his own selfishness...
Can't say for sure what God will do, but I don't think you need to scramble to make things different because you are missing something crucial that can make everything turn around in one fell swoop. That isn't how God works very often.
When the Red Sea parted, it was easy to see the miracle. When you drive through an intersection and a car runs the light and you barely avoid death, a miracle seems obvious, but what about those millions of times per day when people drive through and intersection and what happens is...
...nothing much, they just get to the other side without incident.
To me, that is truly a miracle.
And the miracle that God wants for you is for you to follow Him and love Him and trust in Him. He wants the same miracle for your WH. Perhaps, when all is said and done, you can experience that miracle together, but don't miss the one while trying to force the other.
Mark, You are absolutely right of course. So much wisdom. I need to print this out and put in in my heart.
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And I think you have done all that God requires you to do and now wants you to just let Him take care of the whole situation, not only your WH, but you as well.
I KNOW I have done all I can do. I KNOW that G-d needs to take care of this whole situation. I can truly give my WH to G-d.
What I don't know how to do is let G-d take care of me. Something is stopping me from accepting all the goodness and light he wants to give me. In tellectually I know it, and I TRULY UNDERSTAND, it's what he wants, but what is stopping it.
Somehow I have to find the courage to believe I am worth it and stop thinkin I am not. I thought I had gotten rid of it, but I can't think of any other reason why I am being stopped.
Mark, I appreciate your guidance on this. Truly. You have a comforting spirit that comes across the screen and somehow touches my G-d spirit inside of me. Thank you.
I called a friend and she is coming to get me, I think we are going to go out and laugh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It would be good for me.
It's the week-end of the 15th that we were going to meet...somehow I jumped ahead a week in my brain. Oh well.
Gotta go. YS is going to the winter dance with his GF. He was nervous about giving her a corsage, even though it was a wrist one.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Question. You have hit home that only watch WS actions. What if there actions are nothing, they don't call me - he calls the kids to come over once. He ignores me, etc.
Does this mean he is completely done with me and I should just go to Plan D?
I'm just wondering when it really is hopeless and keep planning and preparing for B?
Does this mean he is completely done with me and I should just go to Plan D?
You forget about one of the other rules...IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU..you can't know what's REALLY going on with him..and if you did, HE is OUT OF YOUR CONTROL...
You go to PLAN D if that is what YOU want to do...not based on what HE is doing..
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I'm just wondering when it really is hopeless and keep planning and preparing for B?
Never give up HOPE for YOURSELF if not for your MARRIAGE..
Don't YOU want to KNOW that YOU have done all that you can do for MARRIAGE?
Never give up HOPE..keep your FAITH...
PLAN A then PLAN B..that's the PROCESS...unless YOU want a DIVORCE...
Don't YOU want to KNOW that YOU have done all that you can do for MARRIAGE?
Never give up HOPE..keep your FAITH...
PLAN A then PLAN B..that's the PROCESS...unless YOU want a DIVORCE...
NO, a DIVORCE is NOT what I want. I want to somehow, someway, depend on G-d to get me through this and guide me every step of the way.
I love him so much, I just want to do what is best for him. For ME, not giving up by letting G-d work it out and truly knowing I DID ALL THAT I COULD, is what I need to do.
I'm tried and so confused. I am so happy for TMTS, but jealous at the same time and listening to people tell me to just D and move on is sticking with me tonight.
I have a dear friend who lung infection came back and she is really sick again. Life just seems to short and I don't want to miss out on love b/c I was too afraid to imagine there was someone else.
But then again, I love this man with all my heart and soul. I have faith in G-d and pray really hard helps my hubby reach his bottom.
Mark was right, I HAVE to fight my way through to strength and mental toughness. I just get tired and impatient and lonely for my H.
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Never give up HOPE for YOURSELF if not for your MARRIAGE..
Yep, let's meet on the weekend of the 15th.. You sound happy. I think that's wonderful. The way you are moving on is an inspiration to me.
Mark,
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What you want to know is if God is telling you that you are going the right way or if you need to change your plans in order to make something specific come about.
Yes and no, I need relief in the pain that exists inside of me. So what I want to know and in some ways needs to know is, does G-d want me to stick this out, through Plan B or just call it good and end my M.
For years and years, WH refused to meet my most EN and I felt dead inside, but I had hope b/c he "gave" me that hope if I did this, then.
Then the reason he didn't meet that need became his affair. Now, he is off having SF all the time and I am at home praying my hardest for something that may not be in G-ds plans. All the while still dying inside and I work so hard as seeking G-d for guidance on my next step.
I find myself in this awful limbo of waiting for Plan B to happen, and looking for ANY opportunity to do Plan A, and yet when I do, he is completely indifferent to me. And I get hurt more b/c I truly understand there is NOTHING I can do, I get I CAN'T CONTROL HIM, I get that he is NO LONGER my H, He is in AN ADDICTION. I truly get it, I accept it as much as I can, but I don't like it, and it still hurts deeply and I just need some relief.
I'm exhausted, I can't sleep, I toss and turn, and all I do i feel emotions at their rawest. I'm not strong enough for this, so I pray for strength and perserverance, but I am at the end of being able to survive this.
My life feels out of control, b/c it is in so many ways, however the truth is I HAVE NO CONTROL. G-D does and I'm frustrated he isn't moving faster.
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The secret to understanding what He's telling you is that it must be in agreement with what He's already said.
What he has already said to me or in Torah and scripture? When you have time can we revisit this?
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You need peace in your life Queenie, and that is what Plan B is about, you finding peace and stability.
YES, I do. I just can't imagine Plan B being this because I haven't experienced it yet.
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To that end, God will allow your WH to have things his own way and see where it leads him, because it will surely lead him to being broken, and then once he is broken, God can restore him and lead him...maybe even lead him back to you, but that isn't the most important part of it to God. And God might eventually use you moving on without him to bring your WH to the end of his own selfishness...
Can you elaborate please. I kinda get this, but not totally.
I think a part of me understands moving on is a holding pattern in many ways. Is that true? I build a new life, but it can't involve a man and so the most important EN I have gets unmet and I feel empty inside. So, somehow I have to come to terms with this and find peace and FAITH it will TRULY be ok.
Sorry for being all over the board today, my brain is in overload of emotions.
Once you go into Plan B things get very boring. No more contact, no nastiness or coldness, nothing. So for awhile it seems very lonely.
But as you stick to Plan B, you are FORCED to get your ENs met elsewhere. I did a lot of exercise, volunteer work, started my own business, made a garden, organized my home, cleaned, painted, went out with friends. At first it was very hard, but I did make a nice new life.
Now that my ex wants to reconcile, I'm not interested.
listening to people tell me to just D and move on is sticking with me tonight.
You may have to STOP spending time with these folks altogether if they keep DISRESPECTING you. I told friends and family members that I did not want to hear that. I no longer spent any time with those that continued. That was part of my PLAN A and continues to be important to me..to this day..to not willfully allow anyone to DISRESPECT me anymore. It really P..ses me off...
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Mark was right, I HAVE to fight my way through to strength and mental toughness.
EXACTLY...
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I just get tired and impatient and lonely for my H.
Pray for FAITH, Queenie. You still have not LET GO and given your H to GOD. You have to SUBMIT and put your WH totally in GOD'S HANDS..."THY WILL BE DONE"...this is not according to YOUR timetable and PLANNING..it's God's..you cannot compare your life's journey to others like TMTS..THIS IS GOD'S PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE...
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What would be hope for myself?
A place of HEALING..a LIFE filled with joy, peace and serenity...like Believer's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..good choice as a mentor, I think....
does G-d want me to stick this out, through Plan B or just call it good and end my M.
God doesn't believe in D, Queenie. It's the EVIL ONE who is wanting you to not put your FAITH in the LORD. LET IT GO, QUEENIE. I see you as being anxious about TRUSTING totally in HIM. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto thine on understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.." He's not gonna spell it out in detail for ya...just have FAITH and TRUST...
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I need relief in the pain that exists inside of me.
I'm sorry. You will need to bear with the pain. Relief from the pain will be a long time coming. This has been a MAJOR LIFE TRAUMA. There is not a QUICK FIX.
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Now, he is off having SF all the time and I am at home praying my hardest for something that may not be in G-ds plans.
Cmon, Queenie. You don't know if he is having SF all the time and so what if he is. Stop thinking about your WH and what he is doing because you can't possibly know. I've been there, Queenie, and know EXACTLY what you are doing. It's YOUR THINKIN..STINKIN..POP yourself out it..Shake your head and get your mind off of your WH. He does not exist for you. You are supposed to put him in GOD'S HANDS, remember?
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I find myself in this awful limbo of waiting for Plan B to happen, and looking for ANY opportunity to do Plan A, and yet when I do, he is completely indifferent to me. And I get hurt more b/c I truly understand there is NOTHING I can do, I get I CAN'T CONTROL HIM, I get that he is NO LONGER my H, He is in AN ADDICTION. I truly get it, I accept it as much as I can, but I don't like it, and it still hurts deeply and I just need some relief.
I see you as fignting this NOTION even though you say that you get it. You still want to CONTROL it and you want to be RELIEVED of your pain. I recommend that you talk to your sponsor and/or IC about this...how to give up the need for control and how to cope with emotional pain? I say, listen to BELIEVER..GET BUSY..learn something new...read about something new..get some new projects started..anything and everything to get your mind OFF OF YOUR WH...
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My life feels out of control, b/c it is in so many ways, however the truth is I HAVE NO CONTROL. G-D does and I'm frustrated he isn't moving faster.
You see here. YOU WANT TO CONTROL GOD????? This shows your need to GROW IN FAITH. You have to SURRENDER ALL...
Queenie, I think you need to grow in love for YOURSELF. You can't rely on ANYONE except YOU to make you happy. It is important to learn to take care of yourself. That was THE GIFT of this for me...my sense of PERSONAL POWER. I learned that I had myself and that I can take care of myself and that makes me even more ATTRACTIVE to my husband. He knows that he ENHANCES my life but I no longer DEPEND on him to EXIST. I was even talking to him about this just this morning...what my life would be like without him. I was talking about traveling and my love of GLAMOUROUSNESS - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. He wasn't at all insulted or taken aback and was smiling.
You love lists. Make a list of the things that you want to do in your life. YOUR DREAMS FOR THE FUTURE....your own dreams...
I want to visit CASTLES in EUROPE. I'm so excited! I'm gonna do that in May..a trip we have planned...
I want to be DEBT-FREE. Need that in order to do more of the above...
I want to read a book a week.
I want to visit places inspired by my reading..like Monticello after reading the book about Thomas Jefferson and Versailles after the biography about Marie Antoinette.
Stinkin Thinkin is what will do me in. I know this... But it's also part of the ism in alcoholism. My mind is out to destroy me.
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It's the EVIL ONE who is wanting you to not put your FAITH in the LORD. LET IT GO, QUEENIE.
I think I am letting it go, I want to let it go, but obviously I haven't because I am still in turmoil so much.
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"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto thine on understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.." He's not gonna spell it out in detail for ya...just have FAITH and TRUST...
I wish he would so I could "control" what it looks like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I truly am just joking. My first reaction is how do I do this. That would be a lie, I totally know.
I am so caught up in fixing and worrying about this that or the other, I am completely losing the basic message of one day at a time. The AA program of recovery gives me these steps to walk through this. I just keep trying to find an easier, softer way and there isn't any.
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how to cope with emotional pain?
An interesting concept because you are absolutely right, I have NO CLUE how to cope, what I was to do is fix it or not feel it instead of walking through it.
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I'm sorry. You will need to bear with the pain. Relief from the pain will be a long time coming. This has been a MAJOR LIFE TRAUMA. There is not a QUICK FIX.
I think this would be my denial stage of it's not happening and certainly I couldn't be in this much pain, where it is happening and the pain I feel is real and it hurts. It just is... I need to stop being so hard on myself and just take care of myself one toe at a time.
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It's YOUR THINKIN..STINKIN..POP yourself out it..Shake your head and get your mind off of your WH. He does not exist for you. You are supposed to put him in GOD'S HANDS, remember?
I forget this way TOO often or try to change it instead of letting it just be.
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I say, listen to BELIEVER..GET BUSY..learn something new...read about something new..get some new projects started..anything and everything to get your mind OFF OF YOUR WH...
Ok.... You are RIGHT of course. I'm just fighting it.
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You see here. YOU WANT TO CONTROL GOD????? This shows your need to GROW IN FAITH. You have to SURRENDER ALL...
YOU ARE RIGHT... And all I really have to do is just surrender it for today. I don't have to worry about surrendering it tomorrow, because today is all I have.
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I think you need to grow in love for YOURSELF. You can't rely on ANYONE except YOU to make you happy. It is important to learn to take care of yourself. That was THE GIFT of this for me...my sense of PERSONAL POWER. I learned that I had myself and that I can take care of myself and that makes me even more ATTRACTIVE to my husband. He knows that he ENHANCES my life but I no longer DEPEND on him to EXIST.
You are right, I have to grow in love with myself. That is something I am fighting all the way. How did you start or was it just doing one thing at a time and over time it happened? This is so powerful for me to learn.
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You love lists. Make a list of the things that you want to do in your life. YOUR DREAMS FOR THE FUTURE....your own dreams...
I think this is a great idea. Take responsibility for my own life and live it according to G-d will.
I'm trying, I really am. Without a doubt this stinkin thinkin is killing me. I have to figure out a way to get rid of it or change it when it starts. And for that I need to work my daily program of AA recovery.
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I thouhgt I would PRACTICE what I was PREACHING. Hope you don't mind. It was FUN!!
Keep sharing, it maybe open up my limited mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You are amazing.... And the best part is you know it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And accept it.
That would be a good dream for me to have one day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I need to start making a new life for myself. Like Mimi suggested I am going to start making a list of dreams.
Could I ask you to help me see the possibilities of my list and how to create them instead of dream of them? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.
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Quote: The secret to understanding what He's telling you is that it must be in agreement with what He's already said.
What he has already said to me or in Torah and scripture? When you have time can we revisit this?
I refer to what He has already said to all of us through Torah and scripture. Because God does not contradict himself. He does not change his mind about what is right and wrong.
God has said that He hates divorce. His wish is for no one to get divorced, and yet He does not force us to remain married by making divorce illegal. It is God's will that you remain married, but it is also his desire that you be happily married. Because He loves you more than you can ever imagine, He only wants what is best for you. And as hard as it is to fathom, He loves your husband just as much and wants exactly the same things for him as well.
As much as you love your husband, Queenie, God loves him more. And He loves you more than your husband ever could. But because God loves you both, the most important relationship is the one each of you have with Him rather than the one you have with each other. God wants you to trust in Him rather than yourself. And He wants your husband to do the same.
I'm looking forward to getting together again. Let's head somewhere new. Maybe Redmond Town Center because it's outdoor and that's kind of fun. Maybe we can get lunch somewhere.
I like the idea of putting together some things you want to accomplish. If you want some ideas for how to get debt free, you should check out The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. He has a good plan and uses examples in his book of folks who have made amazing progress eliminating lots of debt.
Mark is right. God loves your WH even more than you do. But, God isn't going to force your WH to make the right choices. But, don't worry-God will continue to work on your WH to get his attention.
Here's a verse for you today.
Zephaniah 3:17
The Lord your God is with you, He is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, He will quiet you with his love, He will rejoice over you with singing.
Until your WH comes to the end of his own pride and can humble himself before God, he is not likely to humble himself before you in order to reconcile. And that is what God wants from him more than He wants you to be married... He wants your husband to be humble before God...
To that end, God will allow your WH to have things his own way and see where it leads him, because it will surely lead him to being broken, and then once he is broken, God can restore him and lead him...maybe even lead him back to you, but that isn't the most important part of it to God. And God might eventually use you moving on without him to bring your WH to the end of his own selfishness...
Queenie,
This is exactly what I mean when I said I surrendered my H to God, and prayed that God would have his way with him.
When I realized that this was about so much more than my marriage, that I could pray that God would have his way and really mean it. My husband was turning from God. That was even more frightening than him turning from me.
You are not responsible for his relationship with God. It is between God and him. So, let God have His way with him. You live your life walking with God, and God will work out the details.
BTW, did you find Max Lucado's book yet? You gotta read it, Queenie. It'll change your life. I really mean that.
God has said that He hates divorce. His wish is for no one to get divorced, and yet He does not force us to remain married by making divorce illegal. It is God's will that you remain married, but it is also his desire that you be happily married. Because He loves you more than you can ever imagine, He only wants what is best for you. And as hard as it is to fathom, He loves your husband just as much and wants exactly the same things for him as well.
As much as you love your husband, Queenie, God loves him more. And He loves you more than your husband ever could. But because God loves you both, the most important relationship is the one each of you have with Him rather than the one you have with each other. God wants you to trust in Him rather than yourself. And He wants your husband to do the same.
I know.....
JT,
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I like the idea of putting together some things you want to accomplish.
This is a great idea and yes, I will check out that debt free site. Thanks....
SMB,
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When I realized that this was about so much more than my marriage, that I could pray that God would have his way and really mean it. My husband was turning from God. That was even more frightening than him turning from me.
You are not responsible for his relationship with God. It is between God and him. So, let God have His way with him. You live your life walking with God, and God will work out the details.
I actually understand this to be true. I knew it before, that this was bigger than our marriage, that this is my H's spiritual battle for his soul. And you are right, I have NO CONTROL and it's not my journey, IT'S HIS.
I did the DOMESTIC GODDESS day in my home and especially my closet. I found a diary that my WH kept years ago for almost a year. I was dumbfounded by how sad and unhappy he was. Not with our M, but with himself. I have come to terms with he had multiple opportunities to take responsibility for his life and work through his deep issues. He chose not too. He even writes about how he expects everyone but himself to follow the rules.
He writes how he picked on me and got pleasure from hurting me emotionally. But he always spoke about how much he knew I loved him and looked at him with my bright eyes.
I feel released somehow. I truly get this is completely out of my control. I didn't cause his unhappiness, I can't control him or it and I can't cure it. Only G-d can.
What I know is I love my H so much and I just pray that G-d reaches him and heals him however it's meant to be. My H is in pain, deep pain and what he's done is just more of the downward spiral that was happening years ago, but he chose not to truly do anything. My H's life in on the line, I have no doubt and I am NO G-D.
What I realized tonight is the battles are getting uglier, I need to get out of the war and protect myself. All I can do is step aside and let G-d work his miracles and reach him, THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.
As for me... I have to raise our children and find a way to build a life that is healthy and wholesome. I need your help keeping focused and not buying into my stinkin thinkin cause it will kill me. I am grateful and thankful to G-d for me finding those writings and being set free from the past. It's over for me. Not the hope and faith, not the desire for my M, but the blame, the thinking I could have done this or that.
There was nothing I could have done to stop this, because it began way before he met me. I just didn't get out of the way soon enough to save myself from so much hardship and destructive behaviors that I did myself.
I love you all so much. My story one day will be a success in every way possible. How it turns out is G-d's way and will be revealed as G-d decides. I have much to learn about myself and learn to live a life that I dreamed of and G-d wants to bless me with.
SMB, I have to be honest, I forgot about your request. I have been too busy feeling sorry for myself.
I will go online and try and get it from the library and order it tomorrow or Tuesday.
I have a PTA board meeting and general membership meeting tomorrow and I have lots to do to get ready for it. I'll be glad when that responsibility is over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Please accept my apology for overlooking that. I won't do it again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What I realized tonight is the battles are getting uglier, I need to get out of the war and protect myself.
I remember that feeling. My H was becoming wicked. He was evil toward me.
You will find refuge in Plan B, Queenie. I am excited for you.
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All I can do is step aside and let G-d work his miracles and reach him, THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.
God will rock your world, my friend. One way or another. When I think of what He has done with my marriage, I am in awe and so humbled.
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As for me... I have to raise our children and find a way to build a life that is healthy and wholesome.
Amen!
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I need your help keeping focused and not buying into my stinkin thinkin cause it will kill me.
I will be among many here to help you keep focused. You will not walk alone in Plan B darkness.
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I am grateful and thankful to G-d for me finding those writings and being set free from the past.
God revealed to me early on that the battle raging in my husband was about his childhood wounds, and not about my "performance" as his wife.
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It's over for me. Not the hope and faith, not the desire for my M, but the blame, the thinking I could have done this or that.
I had my own battle within my soul. satan would whisper in my ear, and often I would rebuke him. But sometimes he got in and I would question myself, doubt myself and my memories and who and what we (our marriage union) were.
There is a song by Casting Crowns called The Voice of Truth. I heard it yesterday on the way home from church and thought about this very thing. I want to share the lyrics with you.
“Voice of Truth” song lyrics by Casting Crowns
Oh what I would do to have The kind of faith it takes To climb out of this boat and then on to the crashing waves
To step out of my comfort zone Into the realm of the unknown where Jesus is And He’s holding out His hand
But the waves are calling out my name And they laugh at me Reminding me of all the times I’ve tried before and failed The waves they keep on telling me Time and time again. “Boy, you never win!” “You never win!”
Chorus: But the Voice of Truth tells me a different story The Voice of Truth says, “Do not be afraid!” And the Voice of Truth says, “This is for My glory” Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the Voice of Truth
Oh what I would do to have The kind of strength it takes to stand before a giant With just a sling and a stone
Surrounded by the sound of a thousand warriors Shaking in their armor Wishing they’d have had the strength to stand
But the giant’s calling out my name And he laughs at me Reminding me of all the times I’ve tried before and failed The giant keeps on telling me Time and time again. “Boy you’ll never win!” “You’ll never win!”
Chorus: But the Voice of Truth tells me a different story The Voice of Truth says, “Do not be afraid!” And the Voice of Truth says, “This is for My glory” Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the Voice of Truth
But the stone was just the right size To put the giant on the ground And the waves they don’t seem so high On top of them lookin’ down I soar with the wings of EAGLES When I stop and listen to the sound of Jesus Singing over me
Chorus: But the Voice of Truth tells me a different story The Voice of Truth says, “Do not be afraid!” And the Voice of Truth says, “This is for My glory” Out of all the voices calling out to me (calling out to me) I will choose to listen and believe-
I will choose to listen and believe the Voice of Truth
I will listen and believe I will listen and believe the Voice of truth I will listen and believe Cause Jesus you are the voice of truth And I will listen to you, you are-
thank you. I need to print this out and keep it in my book and read it over and over again.
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humbled
I thought I had, but I am still learning it. I think it's something I need to understand daily and practice in my life all the time.
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I will be among many here to help you keep focused. You will not walk alone in Plan B darkness.
Thank you. I really NEED this board and people. You are a part of my life now and to lose you all too, well my stinkin thiknin has me losing you. I know that this is just one more part of the journey for me to trust and have faith in G-d unconditionally.
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God revealed to me early on that the battle raging in my husband was about his childhood wounds, and not about my "performance" as his wife.
This is truly a gift and blessing. It takes me and you out of the equation and lets G-d concentrate on what he is planning to do instead of cleaning up the wreckage of what has been done. If that makes sense. The guilt and shame I have carried thinking I wasn't the best wife. I might not have been and truly I have my own things to be sorry for, but this wasn't ever about me. I just tried to fix it b/c that's what I did and G-d wasn't leading my life.
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I had my own battle within my soul. satan would whisper in my ear, and often I would rebuke him. But sometimes he got in and I would question myself, doubt myself and my memories and who and what we (our marriage union) were.
I have no doubt that our M had many troubles. Clearly when I start the thinkin stinkin or questioning myself it's satan and I have to seek G-d and ask him to help me ward satan off. Yes, I made mistakes, but I no longer carry the guilt that I created this or I could have done something different. The battle began long before me and G-d wants me out of his way to fully address WH just like he did for you.
And in a way that's a blessing. I can see who WH is becoming and he is icky.
If you like contemporary praise music and don't mind that some of the songs refer to Jesus, I would suggest a few CD's that ministered to me in a major way.
Wherever You Are, by Third Day Any CD by Casting Crowns Mercy Me has some great CD, too
I am very moved by music, and God most definitely uses it to speak to my heart. For example, the night of my first D-day, I was driving around in the dark at about 3 a.m., honestly in such a dark despair that I was about to give up and just drive off the road. I cried out to God to please give me something to hold on to...my exact words...something to hold on to. Notice in the lyrics, it says "keep holding on." God is so incredibly personal.
I turned on K-Love's international radio station, and this is what started playing. I mean, the song started from the beginning when I turned on the radio.
"Tunnel" by Third Day
I won't pretend to know what you're thinking I can't begin to know what you're going through I won't deny the pain that you're feeling But I'm gonna try and give a little hope to you
Just remember what I've told you There's so much you're living for
There's a light at the end of this tunnel There's a light at the end of this tunnel For you, for you There's a light at the end of this tunnel Shinin' bright at the end of this tunnel For you, for you So keep holdin' on
You've got your disappointments and sorrows You ought to share the weight of that load with me Then you will find that the light of tomorrow Brings a new life for your eyes to see
So remember what I've told you There's so much you're living for
Queenie, this song was clearly a message to me from God to save my life that night.
The next day, I went out and bought that CD. Almost EVERY SINGLE song on the CD was so very applicable to my pain and sorrow.
In fact, if I could, I would give that CD to everyone on earth who is a BS. That is how much it spoke to my heart as God pulled me out of the pit of dispair.
SMB, I have to be honest, I forgot about your request. I have been too busy feeling sorry for myself.
I will go online and try and get it from the library and order it tomorrow or Tuesday.
I have a PTA board meeting and general membership meeting tomorrow and I have lots to do to get ready for it. I'll be glad when that responsibility is over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Please accept my apology for overlooking that. I won't do it again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Oh, Queenie, no need to apologize.
I am just so anxious to hear what you think of the book. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Music was my spirituality for many years. Our temple choir is amazing and I loved to listen to them. Then I became a part of them and loved to sing. But I stopped when this happened for various reasons and have turned away from music. I listen to shabbat music every so often. Thank you for this list. If you have other ones to recommend, please let me know. However it being a given that my calling in life is not to convert. G-d very clearly spoke that one to me in Joshua 23.
I used to mind things like that. I felt threatened by it that somehow if I listened to what teachings there were from Jesus I would be tainted and no longer be Jewish, but no longer.
As my wise rabbi said, this is a battle for my soul and my WH's soul. What is out there to be used to help me walk through with faith and trust is ok to use.
I am no longer threatened by who I am, I am learning to love myself for who I am. And being Jewish is one of the biggest parts. How's that Mimi, I am letting in the notion of learning to love myself. I am ok to do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just got off the phone with a loan officer and he feels 99.9% confident he can get me a loan for about 300-345K. Woohoo. I can't start looking for my new house.
What I need to know is should I ask H one more time if he wants to join me or just look for myself?
I would make a more AFFIRMATIVE STATEMENT to him. "I'm going to look for a new house and want you to live there with me." ..PERIOD...I wouldn't fill in the DETAILS of how much or how.
I'm happy that you will be able to get a loan for a new house. however, must you spend so much? I don't know what your financial situation is, but perhaps downsizing is in order?
I've only lived on a military budget, so excuse my ignorance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Perhaps it is time to research Jewish musical artists that can inspire you.
I just got off the phone with a loan officer and he feels 99.9% confident he can get me a loan for about 300-345K. Woohoo. I can't start looking for my new house.
What I need to know is should I ask H one more time if he wants to join me or just look for myself?
Remember, you'll have to pay that back plus interest. As far as asking your WH... I wouldn't. I think it would be much more of a statement for him to see you "moving on up and on" without him. You can include an invitation in your Plan B letter. (You haven't sent that yet, right?)
That is downsizing. My house is on the mkt for 609K. I lived in a 3120 sq ft house and am looking at around 1300 or so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Perhaps it is time to research Jewish musical artists that can inspire you.
What a great idea.
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"I'm going to look for a new house and want you to live there with me."
Mimi, when were you thinking I would say this to him?
I'm taking a poll, getting many opinions on yes or no. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And I don't even feel the need to fix it. YAHOOOOO
Have you discussed with your attorney and accountant about how this asset will affect your divorce settlement if you end up there?
Not yet, though I will before I do anything....
I am going to need to the write off. And once the LSA is done our assets are separate and he can't touch anything and vice versa. He just won't have as much as me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ha! Mark beat me to it.... I was going to look for some artists for ya! Was just waiting for the toddler to stop attacking me!
Queenie... WOW, you really are downsizing! I'm currently renting a 3 bedroom house that's about 1100 square feet, so I definately see what a big move you are making. I suffering from sticker shock on the house costs in your area, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm glad Mimi has changed her mind on even mentioning the house to the WH. Truly, just you making such a huge decision on your own, with absolutely no input or expectation from him is an ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT message-- and very empowering to YOU!
If I am scarce around here more often, please know I am still thinking of you. Just having some issues related to MB stuff and I may need to cut way back here for a bit. I just don't want you to feel abandoned by me or anything. I am thrilled that you have Mimi, Mark, SMB and mopey here for you.
Mark and Mojo, Thank you. I can't tell you how that touches my heart you would do that for me. Wow. Thank you so much.
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WOW, you really are downsizing! I'm currently renting a 3 bedroom house that's about 1100 square feet, so I definately see what a big move you are making. I suffering from sticker shock on the house costs in your area, though.
I knew you would be surprised by the housing prices. I moved out of my home back in September b/c there was no way I could afford it without H and he had been turning his complete check over to me. But then his sugar daddy dude died and he needed more money so he could set up a house with crack ho and let her stay at home and do whatever she does all day long. Oh that's right she can't work b/c she has hep c and is on state disability. She is a care giver and would have to be away from WH and he wouldn't let that happen b/c then he wouldn't have complete control over her. Actually who really knows and it doesn't matter.
Mojo, Please take care of yourself and know that I will miss you and think of you as well. We could email each other? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am lucky to have so much support. I wouldn't have made it this far and find myself healing if it weren't for all of you. Truly. I may not have killed myself, but I would be a walking dead person that's for sure. Not someone who is beginning to see the flicker of light towards a new life that I am creating for myself and my children.
{{{{{{{{{TMTS}}}}}}}}} I miss you dude, but I am so happy for you. Truly I am. G-d is up there smiling down on your hard work and sharing in your successes. Please don't leave here, I want to be able to watch your new life unfold.
For the most part I am feeling way better. Rereading those writings really hit home how hurt or messed up my H has been and chose not to do anything about it. We did MC, personal growth classes, etc. He just chose to not dig deep enough to find answers. He chose the cheap and sickening way out and destroyed lives along his destruction. I blamed myself for so much, but today I don't as deeply.
I also just look at all I have to do is get through today. When I go down that stinkin thinkin path is when I start future tripping or regretting the past. Yes, I made mistakes, huge ones that I am very sorry for. But I allowed what he was doing to effect me and become someone that I truly wasn't. I love this man with all my heart. I want him home, but he is in G-d hand's and there is nothing I can do for him.
Every so often a wave of sadness takes over for a moment or two and I am devastated by the complete lack of indifference and abandonement by him. That hurts... He could have been more of a human being and cared that he nuclear attacked me, oh well. Who knows what he is thinking.
So stronger, not sure about that. I do know that being able to buy a house hopefully is a huge step towards my new life. It's hard living in an apt after so many years. I feel like my life is on hold and getting into my own home would go a long way to changing that attitude.
I also would love to see his face when he heard I bought a house. The chances of him getting the kind of loan or finding people who would help him are slim to none. It was only through a very close friend who just got the loan herself that I am lucky out. They do this by invitation only.
I am beginning to have options, where and what type of house will keep me occupied for a while and that's a good thing. Not to mention getting ready to move again, but fortunately I threw out all that I didn't need when I moved from the house.
The only frustrated personal part I am finding is my food. I have completely stopped losing weight and in fact have begun to start gaining. I'm a little concerned and not sure what to do except seek G-d for guidance in picking my food daily.
I'm learning that the futility and complete sadness of what has happened is becoming more ok inside. I miss him still very much. I am angry that he didn't even give me a chance to turn it around. Not one single chance after 29 years. That hurts deeply, but then I have to shake my head and realize he is in an active addiction and is just plain destructive and that's when I can truly thank G-d that my children are not around that sickness and ickiness anymore. OW is welcome to the monster. I want my real H home. And I hope it's G-d's plan to have it happen.
Sorry for the rambling. There is so much on my heart this morning and I still am not sleeping well.
I acutely feel what you're going through, and only wish I had the comfort of knowing my children were protected from it. God is our strength through this, and I know you're in the right place for you. He is watching out for and looking after you.
I have grown to admire deeply your strength and resolve, and am very happy to see you taking steps to regain control of your life.
I'm still working on that process myself, and have come a long way since Friday in 'letting go' completely.
Still.. I'll hear a song on the radio, or find myself staring at a photo of her and/or DSD and just break down. I've learned that's -ok-.. and I acknowledge those emotions for the real hurt that comes with this, and then press on.
It's getting better.
It'll get better for you too... God promises it will.
I agree, having the children makes it way easier. I won't even go into what you already know and are experiencing. It's too painful and I want to bring you hope of how awesome you are and that you and I both know G-d will turn this into good for you. Especially you because you are so committed to walk HIS journey in life.
G-d honors you and is loving you so much. Ever since I saw that card on grief last week I really owned up to the pain that exists, but that it does comes in waves. We get to learn how to ride the wave and walk through the pain, because like the wave, it will recede back and we won't hurt so badly.
Tell me how you notice the changes in you after 'letting go" completely. I realized that you as much as me are so happy for TMTS, but hurting deeply because there is that wonder of why not us. But then I got to read his writings. My H is one hurt human who is just going down farther and it's part of what was started years ago and is heading down faster and faster by his destructiveness. I have no clue where this ends up, but I honestly hope that buying my house and moving on will cause him to notice and maybe even care one drop that he could lose me. Who knows, not my plan, G-ds....
I'm glad it's getting better. I kept looking for you over the weekend. I need to catch up on your thread to see how you are doing.
One of the things I noticed is that I am finding more energy to concentrate at work. I have a huge amount of work to accomplish today, not to mention the young man's family service is today, and then I need to bake cookies for tomorrow and the community service and then the high school concession stands need my help for a few hours today during the playoffs. So busy busy day ahead. I will do my best to check in.
The hardest part is still not having my H to talk to and share with him all the good stuff that is happening to our children and how blessed our kids are to be in this school district. They are doing amazing stuff with our kids and he is missing out on all of it. I hurt for him. Because my H if he still exists in there is suffering horribly over what he is losing out on. I just have faith in that, not to hurt him, but knowing that person who feels deeply.
I just remembered one part of the writing where my H writes about not letting emotions in or out. Now, after getting to know me on here, can you imagine how frustrating that would be for me. He held in everything and I am life, excitement, adventure. No chaos.
My life is beginning it's new adventure and I am eternally grateful for here to be with me on this new part of the journey.
I care about you all so much.
BTW, Smartie if you are looking around, I am thinking of you girl and missing you terribly. Let's talk this weekend, ok sweetie?
The only frustrated personal part I am finding is my food. I have completely stopped losing weight and in fact have begun to start gaining. I'm a little concerned and not sure what to do except seek G-d for guidance in picking my food daily.
Unfortunately there is only one way to lose weight. That is to burn more calories than we take in.
Once you begin to diet, you're body starts to use up fat reserves, but eventually the body starts to make adjustments in order to prevent total depletion of those resreves. That is what happens when you hit a plateau in dieting. It is your body making adjustments to your metabolism in order to stave off future starvation.
Once that plateau is hit, you have three choices: 1)stay where you are (maybe gain a bit as your new metabolic rate is established.) 2) eat less than you are already (might not be healthy for most people, especially women) 3) burn more.
The easiest is # 1, the first thing most people think of is # 2, but the best long term solution is # 3. By exercising more, you not only burn more calories, you also build more muscle, which burns more glycogen so you don't store it and can burn more fat as well. A word of warning, muscle weighs more than fat, so if you build more muscle you will weigh more than if you remain fat, but you can also weigh more because more muscle will burn more fat. Bigger motor = more fuel required.
Many vehicles are designed with a reserve built into the gas tank. Once the gage says "E", there is always a little bit left. Bigger vehicles like massive SUVs have more reserve capacity than tiny little rollerskate type cars. The problem most of us have is that we have one of those little economy cars with the gas tank of an Excursion. Add to that our gas gage saying empty when we haven't even left the gas station yet and still have most of what we ate at the last meal yet to be dealt with and we end up with way more fuel than we need.
So we need to run our motor harder and for longer periods of time. Of course then we have a higher requirement for rest (maintenance), since it is during resting phase that our muscles are built and rebuilt. In fact more of the stored fat is actually burned during rest rather than during sustained exercise. Of course if we run our motor long enough, we can run out of gas, but that really takes a lot longer than most people imagine.
But the fat is the reserve capacity of our system. Unless we have depleted our primary capacity (glycogen,) which is available for instant energy, we never get into the reserves. So if we eat when we still have fuel left, our body, unlike the car analogy, adds it to the reserve and actually makes the tank bigger to hold the surplus.
To carry the analogy further, if we eat (get gas) when we aren't empty yet, our body actually drains out what is left in the tank and puts it into gas cans (fat cells) and puts them into the trunk. If we do this often enough, it is most often our trunk that gets too big, and some of us end up with a trailer behind us as well. Unless we empty the tank far enough, our body never goes to the trunk to get some of what it saved. And the next time we have a surplus, it goes into the trunk with what is already there.
Check out Covert Bailey (Fit or Fat series of books). I have found that I don't agree with 100% of what he says, but his analysis of how the body works is accurate.
Still.. I'll hear a song on the radio, or find myself staring at a photo of her and/or DSD and just break down. I've learned that's -ok-.. and I acknowledge those emotions for the real hurt that comes with this, and then press on.
Having been in recovery for a while now, I can tell you that I still have those moments. Some are related to triggers and others are just sort of an underlying sadness at what has been lost and will maybe never return.
It isn't the loss of my wife, since she is right here with me, but the loss of the dream (fantasy?) of what I thought we had. There are some pictures of my wife from just before the beginning of the A that I can look at and be moved to tears. I'm a photographer and have lots of pictures. BTW and took many of them in the months leading up to the affair because my wife had just gone from a frumpy size 14 to a fit and fabulous size 4 within the previous couple of years. She actually looked better than ever and looked so hot she even made me slobber...(part of the problem of course was her inability to deal with other guys slobbering all over themselves when she was around)...So I have LOTS of pictures to trigger me from those days.
So even in recovery I can relate to what you are experiencing because I too have those same triggers because of what has been lost.
Unfortunately there is only one way to lose weight. That is to burn more calories than we take in.
Unfortunately I agree. I am just adjusting how and what I eat to accomplish that. I have many choices on what type of food plan. There is the south beach, atkins, blood diet, candida diet, weight watchers, etc. It's finding the right combination that I need to work on. Any suggestions?
I agree, I need to start exercising more. That is the one thing that I don't do nearly as often as I did in the beginning, so I will find a way to incorporate that into my life more.
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The problem most of us have is that we have one of those little economy cars with the gas tank of an Excursion.
LOL, I had an exercursion. It was my most favorite vehicle I ever owned.
I get the analogy, but I'm not totally getting the point. I'm a little slow this morning. Basically I have a huge as tank, that runs a certain way. The best way to run it is deplete the fuel to empty before I add more gas. To do that I need to exercise more and eat less. Pretty much it?
So even in recovery I can relate to what you are experiencing because I too have those same triggers because of what has been lost.
Can it also be that it isn't so much of what has been lost, but more like what has been taken swiftly and coldy without care or concern on how bad it would hurt us and leave us empty.
What I'm saying is that the real solution is to do two things. One is to cut out surplus fuel (calories) but at the same time to build a bigger motor so we can consume more fuel. Just cutting out food only works for a while and then our body adjusts by burning less, sort of like using cruise control on the highway with a modern car. The motor becomes more efficient and so less fuel is used.
So by exercising beyond just burning the excess calories we eat, we need to burn even more calories in order to dip into the reserves of fat we already have stored. By doing that for a prolonged period, our muscle mass starts to increase and therefore we can become better at burning fat and can dip into those reserves more easily and consistently.
Really super-fit athletes have so much muscle mass relative to fat that they can and do eat enough in one day to feed a family of 5! They are like a "muscle car" which is nothing more than a mid-sized car with a huge motor. When these guys retire, many become fat quickly unless they can adjust their intake to levels their bodies can use.
As for what has been lost...What was really lost was a dream or fantasy. It was a life that never really was, but the potential for it was there all along. The affair destroyed that fantasy of what might have been, though the potential is still there.
You see, for me, when my wife was getting into shape, and I was starting down that same road, we were also becoming empty nesters. Our son was away at college, our daughter was gone from home and living a thousand miles away and we were starting to do everything together. We went out to eat 2 or 3 times per week, spent weekends together doing fun stuff and were growing closer than ever in our lives. We were living like we did when we first married but with a few extra bucks to spend on doing fun things.
The affair and things that led up to that destroyed that life because we no longer live like that. Our son is now going to school closer to home and is home every couple of weekends, and our daughter now lives with us with our granddaughter. In addition, part of my wife's adjustment to protecting her inability to deal with other men finding her attractive is that she has gained back most of the weight she lost and no longer dresses like she was doing. It makes an affair less likely, but also reminds me of the pain because she looked amazing and now looks less so. (She's not ugly by any stretch, but she was phenomenal and now just better than average) At her best, just before the events leading up to the affair began, she was almost 50 and looked all of 30; people thought she and our daughter were sisters.
You’re not getting rid of me that easily. I've just been putting allot of time with my DW. I think were close to 10 hrs in 3 days. It was a very busy weekend and we are both beat. Tonight is going to be no better. I don't know if you remember a few weeks ago about my DW's sick uncle, well he took a turn for the worse yesterday and the doctors say he could go at any time now, so were are going to visit the family tonight.
I thank you so much for your support!!! You were there from the start and keep my sprits up when I was down. I'm keeping tabs on what is happening and I'm glad to see you are taking full control of your life, you are taking much more about yourself now.
I popped in today to check on all my pals here and wouldn't you know it--a message from you on the thread! I've been so busy with school and work since January I'm having trouble keeping up daily like I used to. But you and my other MBers are always in my thoughts and prayers.
I'm not in school this weekend so let's definitely talk this weekend. I can call you Sat or Sun (since there is no more football until Sept--YEAH GIANTS!!). Jsut let me know what works best for you...
Good, I need to hear about how well things are going between you. I can't do the quote thing for some reason today. You should be concentrating on your DW, that's why you are here. It's so exciting to see what's happening.
I am not taking control. I am giving my life to G-d and doing as he plans for me. I don't want control, I want peace and serenity. I feel a little stronger today and more at peace. So just for today I am going with it.
Glad to see that you are doing so well. I know what you mean about the bouts of sadness. They hit me at times too. It gets lonely some days for sure.
AS for weight, I have gained back about 6 pounds. I was below 105 at one point and looked really bad, so I'm glad to have a little back but I don't want it to get out of hand. I'm at the age where I think it will be easy to pack them on. I've never had a problem and don't want to start now.
Let's chat sometime. Would love to talk with you....
Have you checked out any of that music yet. Don't forget to try Google as well. Lots of hits.
For the first time in a LONG time I was totally on task and working very diligently at school. No internet toying there.
I went to my friend's first of two memorial services this afternoon, went to the store, got my boys medicine, they are both sick, came home, changed and am heading u to high school to work concession stands for basketball tournament. It's a PTA thing. Then I have to go head down to DD work and bring her home, only to get home and bake cookies for the service tomorrow.
Whew..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But it's occupying time and I had a very hard time sitting in there thinking about how much I miss my H and how much time is being wasted while he is off living his life. I'm backsliding a little. I just plain hurt and miss him.
Chai,
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Let's chat sometime. Would love to talk with you....
by phone? email me and I will give you my number. I would love to....
I miss talking to you.
The sad times hurt and are hard. I just give it to G-d and ask him to hold me and then I cry hard and let it out and let it go. I don't know what else to do. So, tonight, while I am so sad and hurting I will go volunteer and be around kids who are young and full of life and with people who think I am worth something.
I know... I know... I have to believe it... I'm trying...:)
Just a quick post to let you know I'm still around, still praying for you, still keeping up with your thread-just have been busy coming up with ways to avoid doing my homework....(class tomorrow night-two assignments due)
Well, gotta get back to my homework. That's so funny to write out-"my homework". I've been teaching for almost 25 years and I'm still doing homework!
I feel you in my heart and I am thinking of you as well. I am very glad your life is full and busy. You are so remarkable in your strength and building of a new life. I will talk to you soon.
Love me
SMB,
I was in Safeway last night and got the book. I walked out of the store reading it and began to cry. Thank you. I just have to keep quiet and wait on the Lord to direct my walk. I needed to read, look to the sidelines that is G-d cheering you on. Look past the finish line, thsat's G-d applauding me. I need to somehow come to understand there is a finish line and just keep my eyes on G-d.
Please remind me again, WW are notoriously selfish and self centered. That's why it can be related to the addictive mind. I had a convo with DD and she is in such pain over how she knows that her dad is no longer and he doesn't care about them. I need alittle reassurance, can he possibly come out of this or the fact that he is so gone is just too far to come back. How do I teach my kids to open there heart up and trust when the one person they trusted more than anything, the one person who was their stability, just walked out on them.
I don't know how to do it. But I am praying and just asking G-d today and leaving it with him because it will drive me crazy seeing the pain in their eyes.
I'm frustrated that he lives this completely other life and I watch our children and their pain everyday. For sure we are healing, but I hurt so bad for my kids.
Come join with ME, Queenie..at least 30 minutes of aerobic exercise per day, at least 5 times a week..NO MATTER WHAT...that goes along with the 6 to 8 glasses of water...
I pretty much stick with the WW Maintenance Diet and my exercise program...
The exercise helps me MENTALLY too..I listen to music and/or books on tape on my MP3 Player..
Come join with ME, Queenie..at least 30 minutes of aerobic exercise per day, at least 5 times a week..NO MATTER WHAT...that goes along with the 6 to 8 glasses of water...
I was JUST THINKING how I need to figure out how to get in daily exercise. Let me be accountable to thinking of ways to do it and put it up here for discussion or agreement, ok? That will help me.
I'M JOINING YOU WOMAN...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I read this somewhere..I think in YOUR BODY, YOUR LIFE..that you have to think of EXERCISE like BRUSHING YOUR TEETH..would you consider not BRUSHING YOUR TEETH everyday?
You can join WW on Line for a fee. It will spell out the diet. I'm a LIFETIME MEMBER. The MAINTENANCE PROGRAM is for maintaining your IDEAL WEIGHT. Checkout the CORE FOODS PROGRAM of WWer's. It's EASY! I personally LOVE the WWer's Program. You can eat what you want to eat without feeling like you are depriving yourself...gotta have my CHOCOLATE... It's about PORTION CONTROL and HEALTHY EATING..
As far as weight, you will never reach your HEALTHIEST weight and keep it if exercise is not part of your weekly/daily routine. Why? Because without exercise, you cannot BE healthy.
Finding exercise that you will enjoy several times a week is critical to your overall health and PEACE of mind. Notice that word? Peace.
When I say finding exercise you will enjoy, I mean that you enjoy ONCE YOU ARE DOING IT. There will be days (often), that you will think to yourself, "I don't really feel like exercising today." But the key is that once you make yourself do it, you enjoy it WHILE you are doing it and afterward. It's the "getting to" that is challenging.
I confess, weight has never been an issue for me. But I believe that is because of the lifestyle I have chosen to live. I value my physical health as well as my emotional and spiritual health. I eat healthy and I exercise.
You may have reached that plateau that you won't pass until you increase your activity level on a regular basis.
Look for ways to increase your physical activity right into your day. There are so many ways our lives have become lazy, and when we start looking for ways to burn calories, there are some easy ones. Look at your daily routine and ask yourself, "how can I increase my physical activity doing what I already do." For example:
Use stairs instead of an elevator or walk the escalator.
Walk when you could ride, and walk briskly.
Don't look for the "easy" ways to do housework, look for the PHYSICALLY ACTIVE ways. Cleaning house can be a real workout if you really "work it".
My mom has always struggled with being overweight, and she is now a diabetic. When she walks daily, her glucose tests well. When she doesn't, she tests poorly...even if she ate perfectly. Exercise is KEY to our health.
Find something that clicks with you...yoga and tai chi are my personal favorites. It shouldn't feel like torture.
Check what all your local Y offers, or a health gym. Around here, Curves is really popular, and it is just for women (so no men watching <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The possibilities are endless. My mom goes to her local Y and takes some water aerobic classes that have really helped her (she has some knee problems). Also, she recently started working with a personal trainer (consider a woman only) at the Y, and this has been a major success for her. The trainer knows about her injuries/physical weaknesses, physical health, and as she gets to know her, even her emotional state (discouraged, frustrated, etc.) She can customize the program for her, and adjust it as progress is made.
Lots of churches have women's exercise classes in the evenings (no requirements about religious beliefs).
Another possibility is dance schools.
If you try something and literally hate it, move on to something else.
Just at our Y, the options are huge: walk/run the track, swim laps, water aerobics, water tai chi, yoga, stretching, aerobics, spinning, pilates, weight equipment, and more.
Whatever you do, be sure to make some new friends there (woman only <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). As you get to know each other, you may be able to help each other be accountable, and it's just funner when you are with friends.
This can help you meet some of your ENs...conversation, recreational activity, effection/admiration (as you receive complements on your wonderful personality, your determination and perseverance, and your success!)
This can help you meet some of your ENs...conversation, recreational activity, effection/admiration (as you receive complements on your wonderful personality, your determination and perseverance, and your success!)
How funny, in 9 months it doesn't seem that any EN's are getting met. No wonder I feel empty inside in so many ways.
I am really struggling for the moment, my contractor came by and lowered the price on our house. He asked me if I wanted to call my H, I asked him to do it. How can someone just switch one day and a couple that talked daily throughout the day to nothing. It's too much for me right now. It hurts so bad. I know, I'm praying. It will pass. I'm just getting it out and giving it away.
The exercise, you are so right. I just need to make the commitment to fit it into my daily life. I have changed and incorporated many of the ideas you have suggested. I also have a membership to the gym and a gym where I live, it's just that I haven't made it a priority.
I'm tired. I'm sad... and I just want off this pain....
Love and like myself To be debt free Have a loving relationship Go to Israel Investigate the rabbinic program Go on a cruise Buy a house Begin quilting again Have a garden I can be proud of
Love and like myself To be debt free Have a loving relationship Go to Israel Investigate the rabbinic program Go on a cruise Buy a house Begin quilting again Have a garden I can be proud of
WONDERFUL! WONDERFUL! I was just about to ask you about these!!
And I sooo agree with SMB...
Exercise will actually LIFT YOUR MOOD...
It became a MAJOR PART of my LIFE right after D-DAY...
I also go to a FITNESS CENTER..
And follow a program designed by a PERSONAL TRAINER...
nothing like getting out of my stupor with a little dreaming.
I actually got down on my knees earlier when I felt the spirally happening. I asked G-d to direct me to a thought, action that would help. I started counting money for school. I am doing better.
Now I want to claim my gratitude list for today.
My children my wonderful friends which overwhelm me when I think about how many people I know and support me My health The fact I have lost so much weight The fact that I have a roof over my head and a nice warm apt I am loved by sooo many people I can feel this pain and try to see what G-d is helping me to understand That I can buy a house more than likely My sobriety My talents in what I am not sure yet
Queenie, something I just found just recently is sparkpeople.com. It's a free website that has a lot of free online tools for helping you lose weight and keep it off. Since you've reached a plateau maybe you can find some help there too. There are discussion boards with members supporting each other. It's pretty cool, if nothing else for monitoring your progress. My GF swears by it and it making good progress on changing her lifestyle.
Queenie, I love your dreams & gratitude. I am right there with you on battling the weight thing. I went to the gym today and did 40 minutes on the treadmill and went to my dance class yesterday (and tomorrow and Friday.) I know I have got to seriously increase my activity levels and get back to being kick-butt healthy.
For me it all comes down to forcing myself to make small improvements every day.The extra gym day, the extra dog walk. I have to do it. My H tells me "biology isn't fair" and it is true-- my body requires a lot more work to stay healthy than the next person.
Now, what are you gonna do about that quilting? I have the blocks almost finished for the little girl quilt I started.
Do you know where your sewing machine is and can you give it 15 minutes a day?
Make steps every day to a renewed life. Go to a gym that has fun classes. I am a mamber of one and have made some great girlfriends there, several of which were recent divorcees and this was part of their renewal too! My favorite class is Latin dance!
I am really trying. My gym doesn't offer classes, but I am going to start going again, much more regularly. I've lost almost 81 lbs, but nothing for almost 2 months now.
I am in the process of trying to buy a house for me and my boys.
And my relationship with G-d is the most important thing I have in life.
I know hundreds and hundreds of people, people who I love and they love me, and my friends on here who have become so important in my life. How is it, ONE MAN, one very sick, destructive and unremorseful man has so much power over me. Hmmm... I think I need to practice the 1st, 2nd and 3rd steps again on this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm glad you popped over JP, thank you. As soon as I lose more weight I will look into dance classes. I did buy a new camera a month or so again, I could take lessons on how to take good pictures. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Good for you! See you do have something you want to learn how to do. Dance and photography. Congratulations on your weight loss! You are doing great.
You only are allowing him to have control. Take that from a woman who has a very very controlling xh who is getting ready to get one rude awakening!
Do not allow him to have it. Take it back. Now. It is a choice. You choose to live your life now. If and when he is proven to be healthy, no longer with the addicted ow, and makes firm steps to change his life, he has no say in your life. In firm step, I'd say counseing with a MB counselor.
I'm pulling for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Got my homework done and turned in too. It sure was windy on the drive home!
Weight Watchers online is the way my friend lost over 100lbs. Check out her website at http://msteechur.com She was even one of their online banner ad people a few years ago. It was surreal to see her on my computer in an ad. But it was also very cool.
She also loves to support those who respond to her blog. If you search around her photos, you may see me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
We're still on for next week-end-right? I'm planning on it.
Hmmm.... are you up to doing a challenge with me? Something small, like a block, or a fabric postcard, or ???
I am up for the challenge of a block, I haven't made a postcard yet. Maybe next time...
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let's each make a block that portrays our username
Ok, I will plan to work on it this weekend. Thanks, Chrys, I need a little push in this.
Hi JT,
Yes we are on for next week. I will check out WW over the weekend.
I need to get to a meeting as I haven't gone since Saturday night. I was planning on going last night, but with the memorial service my boys asked if I would make dinner and I didn't want to leave them.
I noticed for a while now, that I isolate myself in my room because I'm tired and they are watching things I don't like. Before D-day I isolated as well because H and the boys watched all man shows and griped if I wanted to watch a girlie show, so I gave up and isolated. I was thinking to solve that, since it's not the show that is bothering me, I really don't watch tv anymore, I can bring a book out or something that just haves me with them.
I went to sleep at 9:30 last night and only woke up a few times. I'm still exhausted, but it was nice to sleep for a little longer.
I miss you JT, I am looking forward to seeing you next week. I will look at your friend and see if I can't connect with her through her board.
Lacrosse will be started Feb 25th, so that will give me something to look forward too. I really need that kind of stuff to make the days go by. I don't just sit and twittle my thumbs, but I could do a better job of stuff.
Hey there Queenie.. you're doing a lot better than you think. I watch you every day and see progress here, and progress there. You're not doubting yourself so much.. you're more accepting of the answers people give you rather than asking what something means or looks like when you already know the answer...
You've got lots of people supporting you, but you're letting God hold your hand rather than asking the people around you to.. THIS IS HUGE.. this is great progress and I'm very encouraged and uplifted to see you taking these steps.
Our journey is so similar.. I pray with the knowledge that our outcomes will be for the better of us, no matter what that outcome is.
Read the mass readings today and for yesterday.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I'll bet I can think of what to read while you're lounging about.
Why Mark, I think you are right.
James,
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but you're letting God hold your hand rather than asking the people around you to..
I think G-d would be very happy with me then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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THIS IS HUGE.. this is great progress and I'm very encouraged and uplifted to see you taking these steps.
I'm not sure I completely understand, but you know what, that's ok. Because I am just doing. I really don't feel the need to fix anymore. It is what it is.
Is the sadness still there, ABSOLUTELY. And the HOPE and the utmost FAITH, that one day this will have a happy and good ENDING. I just need to get through today. I still miss him so much, but he is in G-ds hands and I TRUST that G-D does LOVE him more than I could ever.
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Our journey is so similar.. I pray with the knowledge that our outcomes will be for the better of us, no matter what that outcome is.
I do to... I'm just still a little impatient, but not worrying about it, just accepting it.
I was thinking today that you might really like joining Weight Watchers. It involves GROUP MEETINGS and you could meet some NEW FRIENDS on your same weight loss journey. It would be another support group for you.
No, I don't want to add another meeting to go to. Between the two board meetings, my second job, and AA meetings, I don't want to be gone more.
Remember that I truly bleed if you cut me. Well WH just left a message. The ONLY time he ever calls is when he WANTS something. Now he wants to know when I am going to have the taxes ready - because he really NEEDS the money.
He never asks how I am doing, just when are you going to do this and that. I'm truly dying inside. What is wrong with me. I can't wait for Plan B.
Now he wants to know when I am going to have the taxes ready - because he really NEEDS the money.
You need to say something short, sweet and to the point..like "So great to hear from you. I'm too BUSY to do the taxes right now"...some BABBLE response..which I am not good at doing...
Are you sure about your REASON for NOT doing WWers? I certainly RESPECT your viewpoint and your time...but are you sure that's the reason? You need to FILL up YOUR TIME now..and we make time for what's important...and HEALTH needs to be a priority..not the board meetings...
Are you sure about your REASON for NOT doing WWers? I certainly RESPECT your viewpoint and your time...but are you sure that's the reason? You need to FILL up YOUR TIME now..and we make time for what's important...and HEALTH needs to be a priority..not the board meetings...
saying this WITH LOVE...
I know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And I love you too...
Let me rethink this and see if that's the reason. I don't mind going to the gym and taking care of my health that way.
Part of my reasoning is to not fill up my time without my kids. They are going to be gone in a few years and I don't want to neglect them. For instance, here was my week... Monday - PTA board and general meeting... Tuesday - worked at PTA concession stands Wednesday - went to funeral and then stayed home with boys, but did isolate, tonight - planning to go to AA meeting, tomorrow as well. Saturday I usually stay at home with the boys, then Sunday go to an AA meeting.
Next week, Monday is Lacrosse board meeting, Tuesday I work my 2nd job, Wednesday - AA meeting, Thursday either home or AA meeting and Friday AA meeting.
I could maybe look and see if they have a Saturday meeting in the area. Sometimes I am too busy, and just can't get anything done because I am in the stinkin thinkin mode. Ya know...
I'm SOLD on WWers..like MBer's..you know how LOYAL I can be..such a KOOLAID DRINKER...I always LOSE when I get back on my WWer's plan and I lost 50 lbs. over 5 years ago and haven't gained it back...
The meetings last less than a half hour...
I recall having taken my YS and letting him wait in the car...
Your kids should support you working on your weight loss...
Plus, at their ages, they probably don't want to spend much time with you anyway..they just wanna be FED and CARPOOLED..or to be allowed to USE YOUR CAR....LOL....
I, personally, let the OTHER stuff go, boards and such..spending time with people, doing things for people who didn't really care about me...but that's MY ISSUE...I spent time doing that STUFF and NEGLECTED my H who did LOVE me..and wanted MY TIME...YUCK...
I, personally, let the OTHER stuff go, boards and such..spending time with people, doing things for people who didn't really care about me...but that's MY ISSUE...I spent time doing that STUFF and NEGLECTED my H who did LOVE me..and wanted MY TIME...YUCK...
I agree, those other boards don't matter.
But WH wants to have NOTHING to do with myself. Lacrosse is important to me because it helps my kids out financially. I get a scholarship for them to play by helping out. PTA, that is on it's way out. I am almost done.
You are right about my kids. I just hate leaving them alone, I thought that my H was around all that time and it turns out he was off with someone else.
You know, I keep going back to, I gave up all my volunteer work and it didn't make him happy. I lost a whole mess of weight and it didn't make him happy. In fact, when I was younger I got down to 140 and it wasn't enough for him. I became a completely submissive wife to him for years and that didn't make him happy. No matter what I did, didn't make him happy. I don't volunteer hardly at all anymore.
I will look at my reason for not wanting to go to WW. I must admit, I have tried it before and had horrible success with it. I'm scared I will fail again I think.
My emotions are all over the place today. Hearing WH's voice just sinks me because I miss him so much.
Can we do the reminder thing... He is an ADDICT he is no different than any other ADDICT and since he needs money, he NEEDS his next fix and doens't care about anything but getting his next fix. Right.
When does what he do stop hurting so deeply or will it always?
. Lacrosse is important to me because it helps my kids out financially. I get a scholarship for them to play by helping out.
OK. LACROSSE is a GOOD THING..stays on the platter! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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You are right about my kids. I just hate leaving them alone,
What do you mean? They are TEENAGERS! It's NORMAL for them to be SEPARATING from YOU...especially BOYS! Celebrate your FREEDOM from BABYsitting!!....They'll still be your boys..I talk to MY BOYS every single day..they don't live with us..we're closer than ever..it's "neat" having grownup sons to chat with about stuff...and for me CHATTING is enough for right now... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
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I gave up all my volunteer work and it didn't make him happy. I lost a whole mess of weight and it didn't make him happy. In fact, when I was younger I got down to 140 and it wasn't enough for him. I became a completely submissive wife to him for years and that didn't make him happy. No matter what I did, didn't make him happy.
I'm yelling...THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAKING HIM HAPPY!! That may have been the problem!! It's about what YOU need to do for YOURSELF..for your own EMOTIONAL and PHYSICAL WELL-BEING!!
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I will look at my reason for not wanting to go to WW. I must admit, I have tried it before and had horrible success with it. I'm scared I will fail again I think.
What do you think the REASON was for your FAILURE? You evidently are GREAT at WEIGHT LOSS. How did you lose the 80 lbs?
OK. LACROSSE is a GOOD THING..stays on the platter!
OK, good
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What do you mean? They are TEENAGERS! It's NORMAL for them to be SEPARATING from YOU...
They aren't the ones separating. They want me around more. I am the one who is coming and going. I NEVER stop them from doing what they want. I feel guilty because I really do have a life and am not at home more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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I'm yelling...THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAKING HIM HAPPY!! That may have been the problem!! It's about what YOU need to do for YOURSELF..for your own EMOTIONAL and PHYSICAL WELL-BEING!!
I DIDN'T LOSE THE WEIGHT THIS TIME FOR HIM, BUT FOR ME...... I was speaking about what I had done in the past, years ago and all the things I tried to make him happy. Today I understand it wasn't my job to make him happy.
This is where I get confused. In the beginning I blamed myself so deeply for all that happened, but as time has gone on and I see more truths. I wasn't a bad wife, I was a wife who mistakenly tried to fix his life and it didn't work because it could have only been fixed by G-d.
So is that what you mean by that may have been the problem? If so, can you help me sort it out so I can understand what you mean and I can begin to change it or ask G-d to help me change.
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What do you think the REASON was for your FAILURE? You evidently are GREAT at WEIGHT LOSS. How did you lose the 80 lbs?
That is the million dollar question. A few theories. One my weight was protecting me against my H and when he was gone I didn't need that protection anymore. Two - it's all G-d and he just is testing me on my faith and walking through.
So, I promise I will look into it and discuss it with you. What did you like most about it?
Isn't that interesting because my WH always knows I am late doing taxes because I always did them alone.
He just wants me to hurry up because HE NEEDS MONEY. I hate to break it to him, but we usually only get enough money to pay the accountant.
Not to mention, I can't do the taxes until I get his information, he changed his address at work and didn't tell me, so can't help him until he helps himself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I was really torn up about this earlier, but then I realized he must be struggling. Poor man..... I am praying for more struggles.
I don't know what's wrong. I am working at visiting houses today, in a little while actually.
I'm planning my new life, I've turned over my WH and the outcome, I have completely surrendered to G-d and his will. I'm tired and just plain sad inside.
I sat out on the couch with my YS, he is mad because he doesn't like the fact that we will be moving and it will be less convenient for him to get around town. It seems that no matter what I try to do I can't win. He was mad at me for moving into an apt, that wasn't good and now with the house, he is mad.
I read Torah last night, specifically psalm 142. The lines that stand out of me are:
142 - 2:3 I cry aloud to the Lord I appeal to the Lord for mercy I pour out my complaint before him Lay my trouble before Him when my spirit fails within me.
142:6 So I cry to You, Lord I say "You are my refuge, all I have in the land of the living
142:8 Free me from prison that I may praise Your name
And then went onto 143: 1 3-4, 7-10 Oh Lord, hear my prayer give ear to my plea, as YOu are faithful answer me, are You are beneficent
My foe hounded me he crushed me to the ground he made me dwell in the darkness like those long dead My spirit failed within me my mind was numbed with horror
Answer me quickly, Oh Lord my spirit can endure no more Do not hide Your face from me or I shoujld become like those who descend into the Pit Let me learn of your Faithfulness by daybreak, for in You I trust let me know the road I must take for on You I have set my hope Save me from my foes, Oh Lord "to you I look for cover" Teach me to do your Will for You are my G-d Let Your gracious spirit lead me on level ground.
this is my pray for today, it's all I want is some relief from this and to know what G-d wants me to do.
I love G-d so much and only want to please him and walk in his safety, but I don't know what way to turn on anything today.
So thank you for asking about me. It means alot.
How are you doing? What plans do you have for the weekend?
It HELPED to let him go with me to visit houses...
I asked he said no. But I will try again this morning for this first house.
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You can't please your son..he's gonna be MAD..no matter what you do...
How LUCKY for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I actually still use the information that WH told me a few months ago on how to handle things with them. Tell them what I am doing and leave it with them. Walk away.
I did. I just don't like it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I want to fix it, but I know I can't.
So on tap for today, get dressed, go look at one house, maybe drive around and see what else might be out there. Get MS home, look at another house depending on timeing and then go to the gym and fake and bake.
Somehow I am going to get the exercising in. I am also going to look at making a block for my quilt on my journey. I also plan to call Chai and Smartie.
LOL, and what would STRIVING for PERFECTION entail today?
I have a question. The LSA isn't in the courts yet.
Should I be continue to created Plan A opportunities or stay quiet and when they arise use them as best as possible. I find myself in the same position I was in in October where nothing I was doing had an effect and his totally disregard of me as a human being was there and so I just stayed low and quiet.
What do you think I should be doing? If anything. BTW, it was at this point in November that you got on the case. So that's why I am asking.
LOL, and what would STRIVING for PERFECTION entail today?
Oh no, I'm not going to DIVULGE about my OCD TENDENCIES!! Just suffice it to say..CLEANING is involved... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Honey, keep away from him for a w hile. Towards the end of my divorce, my LB had a negative ten katrillion in the account.
Don't use it all up. The good fight is not over yet. Right now the fight is about Queenie regaining her own life. Let him catch up to you. We'll see if he's even able to do that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What I'd do is focus on changing you and making positive choices for you and that also includes protecting your heart and your finances and family. There is room for the WS if and once they truly become an XWS. Not right now. No room for that in your life.
If he wants to change you can talk. Until then it's basically pointless. Take back the power. You have it.
I think YOUR CONTACT with him robs YOUR LOVE BANK for him.
what makes you think that? Pictures of her on the wall in his office, or the fact that he has no use whatsoever for me other than to do his taxes so he can get money for her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Naw LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
JP,
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The good fight is not over yet.
What good fight is that about? He has NOTHING to do with me whatsoever. I am garbage to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
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Take back the power. You have it.
What power do I have. Not sure I understand. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I am at building a life, it's just hard because my heart isn't in it. It's just the motions of doing things.
I went looking at houses, and that was nice, I went exercising, did 40 minutes. Home to change and look at another house.
Oh honey-you are not garbage to him. He avoids you because you are the mirror that shows him he has treated his marriage covenant, his integrity and his family like garbage.
The power you have is in how you choose to respond. Even when your heart isn't in it, you can still choose to "fake it until you make it" because you aren't doing this in your own power-you are doing it with God.
Also, your kids will always know that you did everything you could to keep their family together.
I'm praying for you-and I'll see you next week-end. The only day I am not available is Sat. YS has an ROTC meet that day. But I have Friday and Monday off.
The power you have is in how you choose to respond.
And responding is by building a new life for me and my children without him.
So hard, but I understand.
I am doing it with G-d. I feel him with me. I feel somehow protected today while I was looking around at houses. It was very cool.
I pray for you too my sweet friend. I hope all is well and you are taking care of yourself.
I love you, and yes, how about next Sunday, that way we don't have to deal with traffic. Are you sure you want to come down again, surely I am getting close to a trip up your way.
If you can remember back when you started helping me in November, I had somewhat put into place a modified Plan B. You pretty much told me to stop that and start with Plan A. I just need some clarity on what the difference between now and then is. I'm doing just about the same thing.
How will I KNOW that I have humbled myself to G-d with complete abandonment?
I just got off the phone with my insurance agent, imagine this. Hubby's policy is being cancelled due to non-payment. He told her he didn't have the money.
And remember last week he called me asking when would I get the taxes done because he really needs the money. Hmmm.. Is this normal? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Wouldn't he just be so happy to hear I am looking around for a house to buy. And that I found one and am making an offer tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
It's totally awesome. Not my house yet, just putting an offer on it. But I LOVE it.
It is 1290 sq ft. 3 bedrooms - 1.5 baths
It has hardwood laminate flooring throughout the house, which I have always wanted. The boys room will be ok sizes, BUT the master bedroom is HUGE. Has a walk-in closet and I could set it up as a bedroom, small seating office areas.
The bathroom is cool. I have a vanity in my room, turn to the right, walk through a door and is the shower/tub and toilet, then turn to the right walk through the door and is another vanity. So in essence I share a tub and toilet with the boys, but we each have a vanity.
There is a toilet and sink downstairs, so we don't we have choices. LOL. The kitchen is pretty disgusting and I am going to remodel as time goes on, but for when I am alone or when H comes home it will be perfect for us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The yard isn't too big, but has a nice deck, I can have my own flower garden with flower boxes. I always asked H to build me some, now I get to myself. I have a 2 car garage, and my kitchen is small, but I can just store dishes in the garage and remodel how I want.
It needs new paint throughout. It has the marble look, and trust me that wasn't the design. LOL.
Yep, they are. I really would create it in stages.... Which could be a project as I go. I actually would open it up and have way less counters. I can do a lot of that myself with the help of friends and get good prices on the cabinets. Actually our first home, when we remodeled we built our own cabinets. I did a lot of the work and could do it again. Or H could help me, but not counting on that.
Do you think he will care that I am moving on without him?
I just found out WH called his best friend for more money. WH borrowed money to get into his place and I told his friend he would get paid back. I am wondering if I should let his friend no, I am not going to make sure that he will get paid back and it's a risk he has to take.
Or just stay out of it and let happen, what happens...
It's hard knowing something is going on but not knowing. Ya know.
My ex realized I was moving on, but it sure didn't put a dent in the affair. Now he is kicking himself. So don't worry what it will do to hubby. Do it for YOU and your family.
Money problems will help END the affair. I think that is why my ex's affair went on for 3 and a half years. It was like one big party, and they had tons of money to blow.
The sooner the wayward can experience the consequences of not with their partner, the better.
I all of a sudden had money to pay for my bills. Instantaneously actually. I had been bouncing checks left and right for months because he would spend money and not tell me about it, and I was spending money.
After D-day all the craziness, I mean all from anger, finances, weight, food, chaos in the house was over. It doesn't exist in our world at all anymore.
His life immediately upon leaving was nothing but craziness and in fact in the beginning when he waffled to come home he said it was like he was recreating what he had at home with me, only with her. I asked him what the common denominator was, but it didn't make a difference.
I still shake my head how my money and everything else has cleared up. In fact, if only I could have him home, my life would be perfect.
I feel like I am living in limbo in the apt. I would keep living there if I had to, but I can't hang up curtains or shelves or anything that is a personal touch.
My boys are boys and they can't rough house without me worrying about the walls. That's not fair to them.
The housing market is terrible and it would be a great investment for me. And my rent is going up and will keep going up. Where my house payment is one price.
A house is always a good investment. Even though the market is down, it will recover and continue going up. Also there is the tax break. And nothing beats having your own place.
A house is always a good investment. Even though the market is down, it will recover and continue going up. Also there is the tax break. And nothing beats having your own place.
Not to mention, WH doesn't believe I could pull this off. I asked him if he wanted in with me, he said yes, but was just playing games.
Now it's happening and I am not saying one word, especially with all his financial troubles, and just wait till he gets the legal separation agreement asking for more money. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I would live in a trailer if he would just come home. You know that.
I would live in a trailer if he would just come home. You know that.
SAME here!!! We bought/built a house and 15 months later he started in with the warthog! He's swears up and down he'll do everything he can to keep me and the kids in the house, but I told him I'd go back to the two room apartment if I knew it would be with him!
I'm sorry you are still missing him so much. I hope/pray for you that either the pain eases or he comes to his senses!
I'm so glad that you can get your own home!! You will feel better when you get in it and have it as a project to keep you busy.
I purchased my condo in a trust fund so that WH would not have any claim to it in the future. Putting it in a trust also eliminated him having to sign for it. You may want to check into that just in case. Not sure of the laws in your state.
Will check back in tomorrow. Getting late and I have to get up early tomorrow.
The new house sounds fantastic. I hope you take alot of pride in getting the new house. It just proves once again that you are much stronger than you would like to think. The GODDESS did this on her own and should be very proud. I know you would trade it all for him, but rejoice a little in this accomplishment, and think of how he's going to react. Remember this was the thing that really got to my F when he was wayward... the fact that my M could have a great life without him. Lets pray he comes to the saem conclusion.
I'm always here with you Queenie. No need to go see what is happening on my recovery thred, it s kind of boring to read.
I miss you lots dude. I take it life is going great. I have no idea if anything will bring him around. Yes I love him with all my heart, but I have to somehow dig to move forward or I just might as well kill myself now.
If you could hear the excitment in my boys tonight when we were looking at the house, it was awesome. Talking about how they could play in the yard. I now know I need a yard for them. I am taking pride in this.
I am praying....trust me. What do you think about the fact that he is so broke and knows that his insurance has been cancelled because of no money. And then one day he hears I am buying a house.
I need you TMTS, please know that. You helped me those dark nights back at Christmas, I didn't think I was going to make it and you helped me.
Chai, I am praying hard for you tonight sweetie. I love hearing your voice and talking to you tonight, I promise you, I am right here for you anytime, day or night.
Thank you Serenity, that means alot. I know you are dealing with alot and I know how crappy it hurts. Please know I am here for you too.
Today, was a good day. I made the offer on the house, they are counter offering. My realtor warned me about the ups and downs of buying a house and it's one of the most emotional there is in life. LOL, I laughed, because I am truly turned this over to G-d. My future is in his hands, when the house is right he will provide in his time.
As for ups and downs.... she has no idea, does she folks.
Hugs and warm thoughts to all the special people in my life who aren't giving up on me.
Now for other bad/good news. My MS evidently blew up at practice on SAturday with the little kids. He said some things inappropriatedly. A parent wrote an email complaining to the head coach, who pretty much ordered me to the meeting tonight. He then called and wanted a meeting between him and my son. I was there and pretty much was shocked at how he acted.
My DS realizes he made a huge mistake and wants to make amends, but he let the coach push his buttons and he was going to quit, not only his senior project, but the team. I said you were half my child and I didn't quit even though I wanted to. I let him be with his emotions, let him spout off, asked him to consider all the ramifications, stayed steady, prayed and asked G-d on what to do. I didn't try and fix it for him (YEAH), I loved on him, and let him make his decision.
He came to the board meeting to face everyone, and quit the team, but when the coach kicked him out, he got mad and wasn't going to let him win. He came back in, faced the board, apologized, listened to their lectures and spoke like a man. I was so proud of me.
G-d worked a miracle tonight you guys. My son didn't quit on the one thing in life that he loves the most and if he can do it, surely I can make it through one sick addicted stupid man leaving me for a crack addict. I realized my kids really do need me because I am a fighter and they need to see that life is tough, but you can do it.
And it's because of you, that I am here today fighting. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you so much. I truly mean it when I tell you how much I appreciate you in my life.
Hi Queenie, I've never posted to you before but wanted to offer some encouragement. A major part of recovering yourself and possibly your M is gaining the respect of your WH and building your own self-esteem and self-worth. I think that by buying a house for you and your boys, you will be showing your WH and more importantly, YOURSELF that you can make it..You just may surprise yourself when you see just how strong you really are. You will build your own self-esteem and you will know that you can move forward, and he will see that too.
No matter the outcome, you will come out much stronger. Just have faith and believe that God is with you on the journey and you will not fail.
I'm so glad to hear from you. I love to meet new people. Is there a link where I can go read your sitch?
Thank you for your encouragement. I can ALWAYS use it and other points of view. I agree, that buying this house has so many advantages for me personally, my children, and maybe even my M.
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Just have faith and believe that God is with you on the journey and you will not fail.
This is why I get out of bed in the morning, b/c G-d works through people like you and my children. And sends me messages about how strong my kids are because of the examples I am modeling for them.
My kids need to know that one parent won't EVER give up on them or our situation and truly will do the best she can and build the best possible life with or without their dad.
If you could have heard the excitement in their voice about the house, I just know that is my right move, whichever house G-d wants for me. It may not be this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Oh Queenie, when he wakes up one day and sees what you have done for yourself and your kids, he will kick himself so hard. He sound allot like my F, too proud to accept what his subconscious is telling him. But you know what... it doesn't last forever and only time will tell if he realizes it in time to save what love you have left for him.
And as for your sons they will hold you as a saint for as long as they live. You have been their pillar of strength through this. Trust me they will not remember any times of weakness, they will remember the WARIOR GODDESS that you are.
I'm actually starting to think that you believe what we have been telling you.
I love to meet new people. Is there a link where I can go read your sitch?
Hey Queenie,
You aksed about my story, well here it is..hope its not too long :-) I found the site around January of 2002 (in the middle of my ordeal) but didn't register at that time.. My story is pretty much the same thing you read here in thread after thread. Most Waywards are not too original, as you already know....and mine wasn't either..
My ex-WH was having something of a mid-life crisis and became involved with a woman that we both knew, and she was actually someone I knew very well..and even considered a good friend... He left pretty quickly, within 6 months of the begining the A with her.. not really allowing me to do much of a Plan A...By the time I found this place he was already out of the home and so I tried to Plan A as much as I could from a distance, but he was so fogged out, it didn't seem to make much of a difference.
Their A had been going on right under my nose but he lied and lied, denied everything whenever I asked about their relationship and many times I actuallly thought I was losing my mind because I had no proof. The first D-Day happened when she called his cell phone, he was asleep and I answered the phone..she thought he would pick up, and before I could say hello, she was saying "Hello baby its me"...I froze because I knew that all my fears were confirmed.
He lied and denied again and tried to convince me that she made a mistake and called him instead of her boyfriend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...eventually I caught them in a motel together and everything hit the fan!...
I counseled with the Harley's and learned as much as I could through reading here. I was actually advised by the Harley's not to post my story back then because I was convinced that the OW in my case knew about this site...because she dropped hints to ex-WH that I was manipulating him by using a website...and emailed me telling me that she knew I was trying to win him back by acting "nice"..she was such a loser.
..He spewed much anger at me and tried to stay away from me as much as possible. He actually attempted to do a plan B on me by not communicating. Plan D was not what I wanted at the time, but I secured my finances, started taking care of myself and I started to recover myself. The D was final by the beginning of 2003.. It took a long time to get over the intial shock, anger, and utter disbelief of what was happening in my life...but I stuck it out and I made a promise to myself...he may have abandoned me but I refused to abandon MYSELF. That was the key for me. Once I started focusing on ME and my kids, I started to feel much better about myself. I started to see my own worth again. When I stopped focusing on HIM, things became much clearer to me. I found that I was much stronger than I had given myself credit for.
I finally registered here in 2005 after marrying my new H. We take our M very seriously and want to safe-guard our M by using the techniques outlined by the Harley's. My H is also a former BS so we share the same point of view on building a strong M..no secrecy, no privacy from your spouse and being completely open and honest, POJA, etc... and we think this is a great place to learn and continue to use the knowledge here to help build a strong M..
One last note, just last week, I ran into one of ex-wh family members, a cousin of his, and he told me that ex-wh is sorry about what he did to our M and really does regret it..I know most Bs's just want an apology but it doesn't mean very much now, that so much time has passed...and I have moved on...and he is still with OW and his life is pretty much a disaster...but those were HIS choices.
I am now married to a great guy that appreciates me and loves me. He respects our M vows and we both learn as much as we can to keep our M strong. God had a plan for me and I am glad He is in charge because I could not have dreamed that I would ever be this happy.
Just know that inside your WH knows what he is doing is wrong even if he never says it directly to you...work the plans here and leave the rest in God's hands.
Keep working on making yourself the best you can be and you will recover, hopefully your M, but if not you definitely will recover yourself...God has a plan for you.
I'm actually starting to think that you believe what we have been telling you.
I am not sure I believe yet, but I am not fighting it anymore.
I wish with all my heart that you are right. He just has NOTHING to do with me. I just don't understand how that happened. Oh well, doesn't matter, it is what it is.
Please keep talking to me, it always puts a smile on my face. How's life for you?
Hope,
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Do your boys spend much time with WH and OP?
NOT ONE SECOND with OP. NOT ONCE.
As for WH, he is choosing to not have a relationship. Aside from a weekend that we spent in Ca for a family vacation, he has spent probably 2 hours with each other kids in 9 months and I think two hours is generous. He has never spent time alone with them by taking them somewhere.
He has just stopped being their dad though he says its on the kids, not him. He just doesn't get how devastated the boys are.
I'm so glad to hear you happy and excited. I'm sure that you will come to agreement on the house. They want to sell and you want to buy, so I'm sure you can meet in the middle. I'm cheering for you and your sons.
Good job and dealing with your son's outburst. I had a problem with my oldest yesterday and it just about killed me to shut my mouth. Unfortunately, he quit his job and is now unemployed. Sounds like your situation went much better.
Well things are nowhere near as exciting as buying a house. LOL. Things are going pretty well, FWW is doing allot to make me feel at ease, much of the fog has lifted but there is a little bit of withdrawl in there I'm sure of it. She had fallen pretty hard for this guy and I'm sure there is some pain there. So for the time being I do not talk R or bring up the A, it's just too early, I'm basically continueing on my plan A, meet ENs and no LBs. From there I follow Jennifer's lead. All she went through last eek was an overview of MB principals with my DW and gave us homework to fill out the EN and LB questionaires. We are talking to her about them tomorrow. So we plug away and work our butts off to work things out. The vets were right about one thing, the real work start after you reconcile.
You are so lucky. Please know how happy I am for you. What have you learned about yourself now that the real work has started. Is it like you thought it would be or different. Having gotten your reconciliation, do you think that I have a chance at all?
RobertsWife,
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he may have abandoned me but I refused to abandon MYSELF.
Good for you, I imagine I need to learn this one.
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Just know that inside your WH knows what he is doing is wrong even if he never says it directly to you...work the plans here and leave the rest in God's hands.
Keep working on making yourself the best you can be and you will recover, hopefully your M, but if not you definitely will recover yourself...God has a plan for you.
Blessings to you!
Thank you for sharing your story with me. May I ask how old you are? What lessons were the most inspiring that you learned about yourself?
Thank you for talking to me. I am just having one of those days. I think I just still even after all this time and still in absolute disbelief that he would just walk away from his family like he has and not care.
I have hung onto G-d very tightly today and I think I will hold him tightly tonight.
As does I do for my appreciation and admiration for all of you who have walked before me. You sound like an amazing person. I am very happy for you.
Just checking in and wanted to tell you that even though it doesn't feel like it-you are doing awesome.
You are there for your kids. You are standing on your own. You are truly remarkable. This year, on Purim, you can remember Queen Esther, who stood up for her whole nation. She probably didn't feel strong either-but she knew her strength came from the Lord.
I am really looking forward to seeing you this weekend.
I can't wait until Valentine's day is over.
Is there anyone here who thinks I should get him a card or anything? Or should I just leave him alone.
I am doing my best at being strong, but I'm tired. I am just beaten up and tired. Last night on the way home from my 2nd job, I called my old sponsor and had her talk to me on the way home. SHe kept me on the phone for almost 2 hours. It was a bad night last night.
What is wrong with me? I have faith, I've given it to G-d. The feelings, why can't they go away. What am I doing wrong?
He called. I asked him to meet me. He said that would be a possibility. This is what he wanted from me.
A letter to the food bank saying that he is giving me half his paycheck so that he can get a break on his electrical bill. I questioned him about the half of paycheck and reminded him I was being shorted. He said he took care of it and I should have noticed a difference with overtime and such. I said I had, however this past week was very low. He said he knew and apologized, said he had to get things done, which meant he took time off for her. That hurts.
He said is in the process of applying for a new job that would be closer to his home. And if he got it he would give me back the cell phone, etc. It would start off with less pay and then it would go higher. His medical, dental and eye benefits would be better. I asked to be put on it and he actually agreed to that. He questioned why and I told him it would be a secondary insurance that would help me with bills.
He made mention that he saw someone in the grocery store and that this person told him that our MS was sick again. He wanted to know why I wasn't keeping him informed. I said because he wasn't calling me. He said that he was calling now.
I congratulated him and told him how proud I was. That it sounds like a wonderful opportunity but I wanted to meet with him in person to discuss this as it was such a big decision and I was his wife. He actually agreed and said he knew that.
So he is supposed to call me later and set up a time to meet on his way home.
I just remembered that the last time we talked about our house and leaving the area he was going to stay at his job because it was a good job and he liked it. What happened to this?
I am just what iffing right now. I need to do this.
Could it be that he is struggling, not happy, broke and is still looking for that magic pill to make him happy. And again, this won't do it either, because it has to come from G-d and not anyone or anything else. Can I hope that this is G-d working in him and letting him run amok thinking that all these changes will make him happy and in the end, he is really no more happy.
How can he be ok with having to go to the food bank. Has he no pride. Help me understand again what is happening, please? Is this a good sign or bad?
Of course, you are going to be LOOKING WONDERFUL!!
And WE are going to plan EXACTLY what YOU are going to say REGARDLESS of what HE SAYS...
Please help me get ready for this tonight. I want it to be a good thing for him to remember. Since he admited I was his wife, should I give him a Valentine's present?
I was thinking about what James said over on his thread about my WH testing me.
I mean on the one hand, here he is making a life changing decision and just calls to notify me. How flipping rude don't you think or am I just being silly.
However, instead of it pushing my buttons, I used it to Plan A him by saying how awesome, how proud I was of him and I couldn't wait to hear all about it.
How can I use this to the best of my advantage? What can I do that would blow his socks off about this horrible situation?
I am looking for any suggestions. I am going home to go change my clothes and put something nicer on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am looking for any suggestions. I am going home to go change my clothes and put something nicer on.
What Mimi said:
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You are gonna talk about your desire to reconcile and for him to end his affair.
You are gonna talk about YOUR PLAN to obtain a LEGAL SEPARATION.
You are gonna talk about YOUR PLAN to LET HIM GO until HE decides to END HIS AFFAIR.
And I'll add:
Dress like a GODDESS... Hand him a VD card... Hand him the letter for the Food Bank...
THEN start talking about how excited you and the boys are looking for a new home.
DON'T let him play the poor me card... he's having to go to the Food Bank as a CONSEQUENCE of the choices he's making (I think I already said this once today to someone else).
FINALLY, let your LOVE for him shine through in your kind tone, voice and mannerism.
You are gonna talk about your desire to reconcile and for him to end his affair.
You are gonna talk about YOUR PLAN to obtain a LEGAL SEPARATION.
You are gonna talk about YOUR PLAN to LET HIM GO until HE decides to END HIS AFFAIR.
I checked with the lawyer, the papers aren't ready to be filed. He needs one more bit of information.
So, wouldn't this be premature? I want to be added to his insurance at the new place as his wife. I want to be added on those things where they matter and I am not sure I want to push his buttons right now.
Him doing this without forewarning is trying to push my buttons and get an attitude. Me coming across loving and proud of him has to be throwing him off.
I went home changed clothes, am dressed like a goddess. I have a VD card to hand to him and I was thinking of giving him a present that is a heart in a box and saying something about holding his heart in the box or he can hold my heart in that box and when he is ready to come home he can have the real one handed to him. something like that. What do you think
Queenie.... he NEEDS to know all of the things that Mimi mentioned. These are talking about your PLANS. He needs to know that you are thinking PAST him IF NECESSARY. I think the heart box is too much. What are you afraid of? As Bob P says, "What would you do if you weren't afraid?"
I'm actually excited for you that he's agreed to meet. Look at this as an answer to prayer. You're being given an openning, please use it wisely.
You need to tell him to his face that you are filing for legal separation. That is NO SECRET. There is nothing for you to fear. You still can ask to be on his insurance as long as you are his wife. Certainly the children can be on his insurance. A legal separation is not a divorce.
Forget the card and the box. TELL HIM HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT HIM.
About how much I love and miss him and want him to come home.
I don't have the Plan B letter ready. Also, if he is changing jobs, then he can mess with the money. Don't I want to protect myself from that and keep it a secret a little longer?
About how much I love and miss him and want him to come home.
EXACTLY!!
Say you are THINKING SERIOUSLY about getting a LEGAL SEPARATION if you have monetary concerns..but make sure that he knows that you are aimed at protecting yourself. You want to gain his RESPECT. You want to be STRONG..with no fear...I thought the LSA was imminent except for a bit of info.
Yes I think you have a chance. Your stitch seems to read somewhat like my parents, and he came back begging and pleading for my M to take him back. Hope is not lost! I do however think that he is too comfortable and needs to see some of the darkness of Plan B right after he gets a copy of the LSA. Incredible what making it legal does? It made my FWW start thinking about what she was doing and if this is what she really wanted.
Show him the new strong Queenie we all know and love!
We talked for about an hour and a half. I Plan A and got so much information out of him. I will try and put it all down. Because there is lots.....
First thing he commented was on the messy car, I joked and asked to see his, he said his was worse. As we were walking in I asked him where he has been and he said running. I said where did he go, the gym and that it is costing $5.00 a month, I asked if he tied it to the family account? He said yes, I asked him why he never told me, he gave me some lame excuse, I stopped and looked at him straight in the eye and told him that I was his wife and needed to know these things. I quickly switched to asking about meeting up at the gym next week and working out together. He said if it worked when he was there. I said no problem, I'll call for that information. And walked inside. I think I let him open the door for me, but I don't remember. Darn... I should have made a point of that.
I asked him if he wanted a coffee, he said no, I got us waters and we went and sat down, not at a table, which was surprising, we sat in front of the fireplace apart from each other.
Then I asked him how this job came about, what excited him about it, all the stuff that I really wanted to hear about. I told him how proud I was of him, how much he deserved this opportunity, and after much working around it I asked him if this would make him happy. He said professionally yes. I told him I wanted to meet them and I asked if he had a problem with that. He said that depends, I asked on what, and we kinda joked on it for a few seconds, but then I told him that I was his wife and I wanted to introduce myself as his wife. I asked him if he told them he was married and he said yes, but that he was separated. What do you want to bet he didn't say anything about her. That's why I want them to meet me. I am the wife who is supportive and loving of her husband, proud of his accomplishments and wants to support him. Then OW will show up and not have nearly the class that I will, and you know why, because what I offer is the truth. I am proud of my H, and am supportive of him. I won't even go there on the looks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Then he told me about the company, the history of it, who he would be working for, what the job would entail. I asked him very particulars about how much he would be getting paid, he told me, then I asked him how much he was getting paid now, he told me. Then he explained that he would be getting bonuses and I matter of fact asked him if I would be getting half. He said I suppose in a joking way, and actually I really didn't get the impression he was out to cheat me, YET. He will be getting paid every other week, and they don't have direct deposit. That's when talking to him about the legal separation got put on hold.
I made a very direct comment that I was uncomfortable with that, and then I looked at him and said about trusting him. Right away though I made my point, and then went into actually telling him that I appreciated how he has been generous with the money. And the truth is, he has. I don't know if I am going to do as well with my legal separation or not. What I do know is that I know he will have the possibiity of making more money and you can darn well bet my lawyer is going to know about that and it will be written into the agreement.
I was taking notes the whole time, and he knew it. I asked him certain questions about sick days, vacations, etc and he hadn't asked about those. He said he would and I asked him when I could expect answers. I asked him what he was basing his decisions on and of course he brought her up.
As you can imagine I was off and running. I’m sorry this is where I let you down, but I needed to do this for me. I needed to try and get some answers. So I let him talk to me about her and the absolute chaos that follows her around. Purely to drive home a point later on, which I did.
I told him that the boys and I were starting to look for houses and asked him with this latest development, where he would want me to look. He told me and then I started asking the harder questions. I said, we have been through so much that we were able to be more honest that this surface crap. He agreed. And then he started with the fog babble. I did my best, but still need to learn it.
He said something about not living a lie anymore or something to that effect, it was so flippin out there that I truly needed him to repeat it 4 or 5 times, and I still didn’t get it, finally I just realized it didn’t matter, it was crazy talking. I asked him what it would take for him to come home.
Here’s where it got very interesting, for me. He told me that “they” were building something amazing and special. That was based on truth and honesty and openness. I almost laughed, but that would have been not only a LB but probably a DJ. So I asked him why he felt that he couldn’t be honest and truthful with me, and he said I wasn’t safe. I asked him what he meant, and then he corrected himself and said that he made it not safe. He realized that very minute that what happened to our marriage was on him, not me. Because I told him that I believed in him, always believed in him, even when he didn’t believe in himself. And I said a whole bunch of other truths. I owned up to that in the beginning of all of this that I blamed myself for all the problems, and that I learned that it wasn’t that I didn’t love him enough, I just didn’t love him the way G-d wanted me to. I told him that I am an amazing woman and loved him for whoever he was, I just wanted to know who that was. I clearly put the responsibility of what happened where it belonged on him. And that felt frickin good. Because you know what, that’s the truth. I also told him that G-d is creating something special in me that I am proud of. I made a comment on how 60 lbs literally dropped off of me right after he left. His eyes didn’t something weird, like take that in. Then I told him how there is no more chaos in the boys and my life. He made a comment that he and I created it together. I agreed, but says it doesn’t exist in our house anymore, and I matter of fact said he still lives in chaos which he couldn’t refute because he had agreed earlier.  Got him….. And that felt good, darn good.
He created this false reality in his head, not me. I told him it wasn’t my job to fix him, just love him with all my heart and I did and I wanted him to come home.
I asked him again if there was a possibility of him coming home and he said yes. He even admitted twice, once in the beginning of the convo and then that he loved me. And he admitted that he might even be able to love me that way again, but differently which I absolutely agreed with. I kept repeating myself, asking him if he believed that we could have the most amazing marriage if he came home. After a few attempts, he finally agreed. But the fog and addiction is so thick that he told me he believed that he was created something special with her. It’s funny and I just realized it, he keeps saying how he is creating this special relationship. One would think that a new relationship would be based on trust, honesty and openness. What he doesn’t get is that they can never have that because there relationship will always be based in lies and knowing what the other person is capable of no matter how honest they think they are.
Then we talked about the house some more, our future together. I asked him if he wanted me to quit my job, he told me that it was up to me. I said, no, that a decision that important would be discussed and handled together. He understood. I asked him if my staying home would be important, he said no, that they boys weren’t home and I would get bored. I just wanted to shake him and say you leave your crack addict ho home all day long and she is around drugs.. HELLO….. but he wouldn’t get it, he lives in the fog. The very thick fog.
I asked him if he missed being a father. He just shirked at that. Then we talked about his relationship with the kids. I asked him if he has spoken to DD and he said, no, she told him that he ruined her life. I left that sink in for a few. He is absolutely unwilling to let that truth in whatsoever. We talked about the boys. He keeps justifying saying the boys don’t want him home. I spoke honestly about that. Saying that I have had a real good opportunity to bash him, but I haven’t. I have created a home and space where he could come home when he wanted to and the boys would want him IF he wanted to be there. His eyes told me he understood.
I asked him something else and he commented that if it didn’t work over there with her, then he would think about coming home. I matter of fact told him I wouldn’t be second choice. I have worked extremely hard to make G-d proud and become who he wanted me to become and I wouldn't settle for second best.
I could tell he was antsy, but I WASN’T done talking to him, so I kept on going until I was. Then I asked him if talking to me was making him uncomfortable, he said no, and I asked him what it was and he admitted he was hungry. I asked him why he just didn’t tell me the truth right off the bat. He can’t even stop lying about that. See what I mean. Can he possibly be living in this happy, healthy, honest and truthful home?
Oh he told me that he would be traveling with this new company. I asked to go. He seemed surprised and gave me reasons why not and I just kept asking until he said, well I guess you could then. He told me about some property that he has been looking at and I asked him to take me there and show me, he agreed.
I told him our kids needed both parents, he gave me the fog babble, I just ignored it. I told him we had grandchildren to raise. He said hopefully not yet. I said, no, we still had children to raise together. Remember, crack ho has 3 grandchildren and I clearly got the sense he didn't like being a grandfather. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I asked him again about going to the gym and working out, he said he would call me next week. He forgets I am on vacation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
It looks pretty darn good on the surface. Just one question. What was the tone and or mood while you were telling him these things? Some of it sounded a little overbearing. But if it was calm and cool, no emotions involved, I really think you got him thinking (or you scared him). You know as well as anybody on this board that what he told you about them is the only thing he can tell you right now. The part that concerns me is what he told you about coming back. You need to take that with a grain of salt until you see action to the contrary.
Let’s see what the next weeks are like, because the LSA will hit him hard and now that he has seen the new Queenie the LSA will really make him think.
But you did get a good indication about your suspicions about how life with the warthog is going.
To me it sounds like this is the best you've done in a face to face with him. He will not forget your strength.
On the way out, I hugged him tightly. He wished me a happy valentine’s day, which completely surprised me. I told him that I would be waiting to hear from him.
It irks me that she is going to be part of this decision, but it is what it is.
What I got from this is a few things. And I need more input. I have to admit, I am scared that the longer time goes on their relationship will become better and better. However I have to remember they are both self centered, and selfish and if trust is still and issue for them. It has to continue to be an issue. Especially as time goes on and money gets worse. Though with his new job he is really going to be saving gas. Going from 52 miles to 12 miles a day. The fact that she is going to be very close to him and can just pop over for lunch etc, is scaring me, but there is nothing I can do.
He still loves me. He knows that we can be happy, but he is in this fantasy that he can build something with her. I don’t believe that she can make it through the test of time. And unfortunately that is what this is going to take, time.
Has anyone ever heard of someone being this deep into the fog and coming out? I can see he is rejuvenated by the job and that means longer as well, because he’ll be happier for a long time.
So in the end, I feel like G-d gave me the opportunity to really set up my stage for Plan B. I am going to get more time with him, fun time. More time for him to see the changes in me. I realized for the first time tonight he is truly cake eating in his own way. He totally knows and I confirmed it again that he can just come home when he is ready. I didn’t think he knew that or even cared. He still loves me. He loves what I offer him and yet the addiction is too strong still.
So, please please help me to start setting up my Plan B because I need to go out with a bang.
Thoughts, ideas… bashings?
Oops, almost forgot the Goddess part. I looked stunning. Absolutely stunning! In fact he commented on are you going to a tanning booth, I said no because I hadn’t been there for awhile. I used bronzer and mineral make up, my eyes sparkled and my outfit showed off my figure, not to mention my boobs were falling out a bit. He thinks I wore that to work. He kept looking and I would smile and fix.  And you know how I looked good, because when I went to my meeting tonight, everyone complimented me on how awesome I looked and I realize he had to have noticed.
So, I get that to win him back, I need to move on without him and leave him behind in the dark. Absolute dark, because she doesn’t hold a candle to me or ever will. He admitted the history was a huge piece.
It’s just the addiction and the fog that is my enemy. Is there hope you guys?
But if it was calm and cool, no emotions involved.
Actually I was extremely calm and cool. Unbelievably so. I wasnt' begging one bit. I was honest about my feelings. I was doing it because that is who I am and I was tired of the crap he was giving me. I had control, and whether I lose him or not, I got him to admit that he created the environment that was unsafe for him, not me. I don't have to live with the guilt of that anymore.
He played his games with me for years and years and it drove me away. I'm still crushed that he can so cooly turn his back on me and not give me one chance. He is betting on her paying off of his happiness and them creating this amaazing life.
I don't believe the chances of that happening are too real, especially when I am completely out of the picture and he really does start to lose his kids and the memories.
I got the sense that I in a way was setting him up. He has no doubt I love him, that there is a map to come home and I want him to come home.
I am not willing to let him have control over me with the money and this is giving me the perfect reason for the legal separation. That we are getting along now, but I need to protect myself and our children and making sure that everything is on the up and up. That I am setting him free and ... what am I going to be doing in Plan B?
What was the tone and or mood while you were telling him these things?
The tone and mood was light but serious. I was truly proud of this opportunity for him and happy for us as a family. I was excited about who I am becoming and left it in the air he is an idiot for throwing it away.
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The part that concerns me is what he told you about coming back. You need to take that with a grain of salt until you see action to the contrary.
He was completely clear that he wasnt' coming back, not today. He believes they can have this amazing relationship. I just laid the map that I wanted him to come home, but that I wasn't going to be second choice. And I meant it, at least to him I did and at that time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Again, I learned that deep down inside he knows he can have a spectacular life with me. But he is living in this fantasy that he can build it with her. I have no part in that because there is nothing I can do, but continue to live my life and hope he figures out what he is losing.
He is still willing to sacrifice everything for her because of what they "can build". It's not even what they have. So, he keeps trying with her and somehow, someway I continue to find the strength to get up each morning without him and learn to live life without him. Because what I know he is gone. And I am crushed, honestly.
I love this man with all my heart, I always have and I wouldn't allow him to take that away from me. Whether he chooses to want it or not, well I have no control and need to leave it with G-d. I still hurt just as much as I did earlier, but I got my sign from G-d this battle is absolutely between them.
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To me it sounds like this is the best you've done in a face to face with him. He will not forget your strength.
No he won't forget my strength and neither will I. Because I have the truth on my side.
How are you? Do you really thinik so. I checked and he sent YS a email that says, YS Happy Vallentine's Day. I love you and miss you. Love BS
Do you think he opened up the card I gave him and it makes a difference at all?
What scares me the most is that she is really a good loving person and I don't stand a chance. I'm so confused this morning and sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
You did just fine Queenie. And it doesn't hurt to let him talk about the OW. You need to be safe for him to talk to so that when the affair ends, he will come right back to you.
I'll have to catch you up later. I have a horrible headache <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> and I need to get out of here for my MC appointment. Fitting for today.....
Take care and know we all think you're VERY loveable! THAT is very apparent to me.
Do you really think the A will end? Just b/c they all end or b/c of something I said?
Interesting that you said safe, b/c that was one of my points. He told me that I wasn't safe. But then he realized that he made it not safe himself. I wasn't taking that lie from him anymore. I made his life safe, I was a great wife to him. He is throwing it away b/c he is addicted to her.
I lost a lot of respect for him last night when I realized that he is so selfish and that it barely bothers him to ruin peoples lives because it's what he wants. I deserve someone who gives as much as I want to. I just hope there can be someone else for me.
Oh Mopey,
Take care of yourself. I'm sorry you have a headache. Please check in and let me know how you are doing.
Wow.. I am so inspired by your strength and how you handled yourself in that interaction.
He's definitely cake eating.. and torn.
Wish I could be so lucky..
You're doing fine.. this A will end sooner or later. But regardless of what HE does.. you will heal. I can see your strength already, to move on with your own life if that's what the ultimate outcome is.
YOU DID GREAT!! Believe that. At this point, I don't think that anymore Plan A is going to make a difference.
It's only going to show him that you WILL be second choice, and that he can cake-eat as long as he wants and then come back to you if his A doesn't work. If he comes back under those circumstances, there won't be any incentive not to get entangled in another A in the future.
If he always thinks that you'll be there to pick up the pieces, you'll never change the behavior. Believe me, I was tempted to just look the other way to avoid the pain, but in the long run I knew that sharing my WH was not going to work.
Let's talk today if you have time. I'll send you an email.
Your meeting with your WH was just so AWESOME that I can't possibly respond to ALL that was WONDERFUL about what YOU accomplished for YOURSELF and YOUR MARRIAGE.
Your WH is so garden variety ADDICTED, Queenie. You moreso than others know about ADDICTION. He is ADDICTED to her just like to a DRUG..just like to alcohol..he is CODEPENDENT for sure.
The STUFF he told you is ALMOST VERBATIM what my WH told me..my H was going to TRY to MAKE IT WORK with her..Who wouldn't want to live constantly with their DRUG SUPPLY. I'm betting you that he is seeking RELIEF from his suffering and it's why he met with you.
Don't be thrown off by HIM, Queenie. Everytime you actually meet with him and are so AWESOME when you do, you start to QUESTION yourself..NO NEED FOR THAT!! He's following the SCRIPT to a tee.
Proceed with your PLAN B. I'm more HOPEFUL about the OUTCOME than I was before your meeting...
He is seeking your friendship and companionship which he will feel that he is in danger of losing once you go to your B...
Just like my H, your WH has this HOPE that you will be sitting around waiting for him until he TRIES out HIS NEW LIFE..a part of him actually KNOWS that it is not gonna work. That's why he wants you there waiting as his WIFE..yuck...
THEY ARE SOOOO NUTS..those ALIENS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Your meeting with your WH was just so AWESOME that I can't possibly respond to ALL that was WONDERFUL about what YOU accomplished for YOURSELF and YOUR MARRIAGE.
Then I did ok? I was so worried you were going to slap me upside and down the other. I just did what I NEEDED to do FOR ME. I controlled the conversation and made the points I needed to make.
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Proceed with your PLAN B. I'm more HOPEFUL about the OUTCOME than I was before your meeting...
How come? Besides him being the garden variety.
Of course he is more addicted. He has been living in a dry drunk all these years and he finally got into a drug that could destroy him without being so obvious. Do you really think he will figure it out?
they are unbelievably sick aren't they, those aliens...
I think you did just fine too. Good for you for getting your points across. Go back and reread your post. You'll see what we see... Queenie making her stand. Now you just need to proceed with a dark Plan B. What's the status on that by the way?
I controlled the conversation and made the points I needed to make.
You most certainly did, YOU MBer's QUEEN, YOU! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm hopeful because I got the sense that he was trying to make sure that YOU were still THERE for him IF he NEEDED YOU. I'm not sure if this is CONSCIOUS on his part or if it's just HUMAN NATURE as we know it. I get the sense that he's beginning to FEEL a bit CRAZY in his ALIEN LIFE.
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Do you really think he will figure it out?
We have to have FAITH that GOD will work this out after YOU DO ALL THAT YOU CAN DO and that will be PLAN B.
I get the sense that he's beginning to FEEL a bit CRAZY in his ALIEN LIFE.
That's for sure. But he believes that they are really on the right track and building a life of honestly, truth and openness. I wanted to puke. I really did.
Can he possible keep this up forever.
Yes, Plan B is my next step. With him getting this new job it gives me the perfect reason for protecting myself and the children.
How did you like the part where I told him I wanted to meet his new employees? I really am going to do that once he starts working for them.
The sad part is that I just talked to someone whose cousin worked for them and was miserable. It wasn't the best job ever, like WH thinks.
He is still trying so hard to convince himself, and you are right, he is desparate for this fix.
I'm sorry I didn't tell him about the LSA then. I really needed the conversation to go this way, I was getting so much information from him and taking the opportunity to lay the groundwork for Plan B. Which is what you told me in the beginning months ago. Remember how you told me to set that up? I did and I will for just a little longer and then I'm gone.
That's for sure. But he believes that they are really on the right track and building a life of honestly, truth and openness.
LOL..such crap..my H used to say that FOGTALK junk..TODAY he would be soooo embarassed...
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Can he possible keep this up forever.
ABSOLUTELY NOT...
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How did you like the part where I told him I wanted to meet his new employees? I really am going to do that once he starts working for them.
That was OK. No big deal. I liked it that you SAID it and he agreed more than anything else. You can't do it if you are in PLAN B when the time arises.
I think you were almost PERFECT, QUEENIE..absolutely FANTASTIC..I understand why you didn't mention the LSA..he won't be surprised even though you didn't spell it out for him...
The only scary part, is that when he goes to work for this company, he will be only 6 miles from home and she will go and visit him all the time for lunch.
All that drama will follow him everywhere. He is boxing himself into a small town with her. When she leaves, she will drive right past him. UGH....
Let's get the focus back to YOUR NEW LIFE and YOUR PLAN..stop worrying about the particulars of his life..let's put him back into God's hands today...You did YOUR JOB with GOD's LOVING SUPPORT OF YOU...the situation was provided for you to do what you had to do..GOD was in this, Queenie.."Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies"..the affair is your enemy...the EVIL SPIRITS holding onto your H...Let's move forward away from there today, Queenie...
All that you are saying is telling me that you haven't really given it all over to God yet.
If God is in control and wants only what is best for you, who are you to argue with Him? WH might build a new life without you and move on...You might build a new life without WH and move on.
Gideon prepared for battle against Midian with 32000 men and God had him reduce that to 10000. But God told him he still had too many men, so based on how the remaining men drank water from the river, God cut that number down to 300...A battle once planned around having 32000 men was entered into by 300 and God showed how powerful He can be. The strength wasn't in the number or in the men themselves, but in God.
God could have let Gideon take all 32000 men into battle and still performed a miracle, but then the people might not see it as a miracle. They would think that they had won the battle.
Will God save your marriage? I don't know. I do know that God wants to save you...And He wants to save your WH as well. Might be together...Might not be together...But no matter what God chooses for you, it will be the BEST that God has to offer...Not by by your power, but by His.
I do know that God wants to save you...And He wants to save your WH as well. Might be together...Might not be together...But no matter what God chooses for you, it will be the BEST that God has to offer...Not by by your power, but by His.
All that you are saying is telling me that you haven't really given it all over to God yet.
I think I would have to agree with you, until yesterday afternoon.
Maybe my words are saying what is in my heart. From the conversation I realized that I was a great wife. In fact an amazing wife. WH did what he did because of things that are wrong inside of him. I didn't cause this, I see that now.
Yes, I am very sad because it hurts, but I didn't cause this. I just loved him the best way I knew how. But now G-d is my life, and he is the one I try to make happy. Not my H.
I love my H, I always have. I didn't realize how much but that's water under the bridge so to speak.
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Will God save your marriage? I don't know. I do know that God wants to save you...And He wants to save your WH as well. Might be together...Might not be together...But no matter what God chooses for you, it will be the BEST that God has to offer...Not by by your power, but by His.
I think I get this completely now.
And one of the reasons is experiencing this house process. I know that G-d is working in my life and when the right situation happens it will. Even though I loved this house and wanted it, I have turned it completely over to G-d. So I am experiencing what that looks like and can now do it with my H.
G-d gave me so much yesterday, I was truly blessed in more ways than I realize.
I just need to concentrate on living my life for G-d. And let him do the rest. I'm in the best hands possible, am I not?
I am on vacation next week any chance we have some Torah dialogue going?
But I needed the conversation last night to believe it today. Because I am a good person who has an enormous capacity to accept and love someone and G-d has someone planned for me who will let me love them with all my heart and soul and be free to love them.
Not controlled by someone who is unhappy in their own life and takes it out on me.
this was a celebration for MB and my friends as well. I would never have done it without your support.
You know that lady, don't you? And so many others. I still don't completely believe in myself yet, but I am much better about it.
I also have lost almost all the 10 3/4 lbs I gained in one week. I have 3/4 lbs to go as of this morning. So I am officially back to 80 lbs lost. Woohoo!!!
I think that was continues to surprise me is that his self entitlement to do whatever he wants no matter who it hurts or what destruction it causes is beyond belief. That this happiness is somehow owed to him and that what is right or wrong doesn't matter at all.
I think that was continues to surprise me is that his self entitlement to do whatever he wants no matter who it hurts or what destruction it causes is beyond belief. That this happiness is somehow owed to him and that what is right or wrong doesn't matter at all.
Is that normal for the garden variety WW?
If WS had a theme song it would surely be called something like, "It's All About Me.. Me.. Me... and Nobody Else" or "I Deserve Whatever My Black Heart Wants". Well, you get the idea.
I think that was continues to surprise me is that his self entitlement to do whatever he wants no matter who it hurts or what destruction it causes is beyond belief. That this happiness is somehow owed to him and that what is right or wrong doesn't matter at all.
Is that normal for the garden variety WW?
Oh most definitely! ALL WSs are full of selfish entitlement.
If WS was in the dictionary, you're view above would probably be the definition. For sure.
Definitely a garden variety WS.
P.s. I updated just a little on the Valentine's day thread.
Ok, so my personal growth becomes my priority. What is my next step do you think?
Saturn Rising had a really good suggestion for me. She said to draw a circle and pretend like it's a pie. Make each slice of pie a different aspect of your life. Being careful to make the slices as big as what you are putting into them. For instance, when I first did mine, the biggest piece was focused on my marriage and my other pieces were too small. Look at all your pieces and see where there needs to be adjustment. Like kids, work, health, etc. It was eye opening to see that all the other aspects of my life were getting short changed and therefore needed balancing.
It's hard to do at first but it really puts things into perspective.
Wow! Reading through your recent posts is so amazing-to see how much you have grown and how much you are leaning on God. Isn't it cool-and so opposite our human nature-the more we lean on Him and turn to Him for our strength-the more He blesses us with what we need.
So, four days off for me! Where and when do you want to meet on Sunday?
You mentioned Redmond Town Square. I am not sure how to get there, but I think that would be a great thing. We are supposed to have sunshine, right?
This was a huge day for me. D-day was 9 months, Valentine's Day without my H, and I faced one of the biggest fears in me. I went to the dentist and had a tooth pulled that has bothered me for years.
I was scared because I couldn't suck in the gas fast enough to not feel the emptiness inside. And I just talked to G-d in my mind and loved the feeling. It scared me though because I am such an addict. The dr. gave me pain pill prescription, but in my frame of mind I am too shaky to take them, so I called my sponsor and she told me to rip of the prescription, which I did. I took tylenol and got my butt to a meeting.
After 21 years, I am so still an addict and love that feeling of not feeling. Kinda gives me an example of what WH is doing, except I didn't go there and he did.
My mouth hurts, but I'll get through it, like I am with this. I don't see the growth, but I am grateful for you who do.
I love you all very much and wish you a peaceful night's rest. Talk to you tomorrow.
I'm glad Valentine's Day is over. I really only have two more important events to get through the first year.... My birthday and Passover.
I can't see how you could have handled that in a better way. The fact that you confirm that you delivered the message in a strong confident but calm manner out a big smile on my face. He will not forget last night! Most of us here will remember it as well as the night that Queenie truly believed in her own strength.
As far as the LSA goes, IMO it's good that you didn't bring it up. Look at it like tsunami, you delivered the first wave last night, and the scared him. He's never seen one of these so he has no idea that there is another bigger stronger wave coming... is he on high enough ground? I don't think so.
I was just reading over on Jamesus post about what Schoolbuss wrote and it has me rethinking what I said to him. Was I loving eough, sympathetic enough to not meeting his EN's etc. And you know what. I don't buy it.
I love my H with all my heart, I am committed to my M and walking through with FAITH by turning it over to G-d. But I need some self-respect and I think that G-d wanted me to experience it with my WH as well.
I was compassionate, loving, caring, and open. But I held my head up high because it's the truth, G-d is creating me into what he wants me to be, and not me.
I realized that one other thing I said to WH last night, was if I were to die tomorrow I could face G-d with my head held high and pride in my heart because I have faced my past, am making amends and know that I am a good person. And that's the truth.
I miss him TMTS. I really miss him, but I understand that he is gone from my life today.
I know you miss his sweetie, and you have done more than what can be expected by anybody. You keep holding your head high because you deserve to.
I don't know James's story but I read School bus’s post and all I can say is that to try to exactly relate the two stitches, and question weather you did it perfect or not is futile. When you sit back in hindsight, you will always find things that you think you could have done different or better, because you didn't get the reaction you expected. You have no idea what he took from it. Remember a couple of weeks ago we were taking the same way and had all kinds of vets trying to tell us this. I see it now, and after talking to my DW about some of the Plan a moves, she confirmed that some of the things I second guessed did in fact have an effect on her.
As far as I'm concerned you did fantastic, and set up your LSA and Plan B perfectly. Add the new house, which you took care of procuring all on your own, and he will be a mess of self doubt.
I would be ready to put money down that he did not sleep well last night. The images of you moving on were making his wheels spin. Last night was the first step in him seeing that you will not wait forever. The next two steps will just cement this thought in his head.
One more thing, your worry about him being closer to her during the day. Look at the flip side to your thought. It is very much possible that the A is being held together because they have limited time together. Being in his face for more time than before can just help in getting the A come to an end.
I actually got more reaction than I EVER expected. But then again, he is a master at manipulating and controlling me and he could have just given me exactly what I wanted. He was certainly noticing me, the fact that I was asking so many questions about his job. He kept watching me write things down and his face made funny features. It would be a guess as to what he was thinking and I am not going there.
It was in his eyes. They kept doing weird things, flickering almost. I kept noticing that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I don't think I drove home enough that I am moving on without him, in fact I was concerned that he thinks I am just pining away for him and waiting for him to change his mind and come home. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
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The images of you moving on were making his wheels spin.
What are the images of me moving on or not waiting forever? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
It's funny, I keep thinking what Mark posted earlier about me not turning it over to G-d. And that isn't the truth. I have turned it over, I think I am grieving that in a way. I can totally second guess myself in everything, but the fact is, this is my H battle with G-d. It truly always was and I just was in the way stirring up the pot because I didn't know any different.
My H loves me, I know that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
He said at one point that the old him didn't exist anymore and that he lived a lie all his life, he tried to blame me, but he knew that he self imposed it, because that was the truth. I never wanted him to be anything or anyone, I just wanted to know who he WAS so I could love that one too. That was the truth too. My frustration and deep hurt is that he is this open, honest, truthful man with a crack ho who bumped into him and now shares his whole life. Well actually, no she doesn't. She doesn't share her life with our kids and probably that won't ever happen.
What I know is, this person is selfish, selfcentered and beyond destructive. Who my H ends up being is in G-ds hands, but I know without a doubt if the fog were to lift, then I would love whoever it was he became with G-d in his life. I hope that makes sense.
What this does or doesn't do isn't really for me to know because it's in G-ds hands plain and simple as I am. I love G-d with all my soul, with all my being, and just want to walk through this awful pain and time and see what blessings he has for me.
When it's G-ds timing, I want someone in my life that I can love with all my heart and be in a relationship that the foundation is from G-d, based on MB principles and one of a true G-d given partnership. I think that's ok to want, don't you. And hopefully there is someone out there for me, to share my life with. I hope its my H, but it's in G-ds hands.
There is a prayer that my rabbi wanted me to say many years ago, but I couldn't because I was living in a dry drunk. Today, G-d has changed me and continues to create me. I need to start saying this morning prayer because it's true and it's time I claim it.
The soul you have given me, Oh G-d is a pure one! You have created and formed it, breathed it into me, and within me YOu sustain it. So long as I have breath, therefore, I will give thanks to You, Oh Lord, my G-d and G-d of all ages, Master of all creatiion, Lord of every human spirit. Blessed is the Lord, in who hands ar the souls of all the living and the spirits of all the flesh.
The other one is the Ve'hafta You shall love the Lord your G-d with all your mind, with all your strength, with all your being. Set these words which I command you this day, upon your heart. Teach them faithfully to your children; speak of them in your house and on your way, when you lie down and when you rise up.
Bind them as a sign upon your hand; let them be a symbol before your eyes; inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Be mindful of all My mitzvot, and so them, so shall you consecrate them to yourselves to your G-d. I, the Lord am your G-d, who led you out of Egypt to be your G-d. I the Lord, am your G-d.
What are the images of me moving on or not waiting forever?
Picture it... he's in bed and all he can think about is the fact that you do not NEED him, yet you still WANT him. He imagines you doing the move with no help from him, see you going out with friends and having a good time without him, then he moves one to picturing you out with another man.
These are the kinds of images I am talking about. Now sit back and think about how conflicted he is now.
Picture it... he's in bed and all he can think about is the fact that you do not NEED him, yet you still WANT him. He imagines you doing the move with no help from him, see you going out with friends and having a good time without him, then he moves one to picturing you out with another man.
These are the kinds of images I am talking about. Now sit back and think about how conflicted he is now.
I don't see how any part of out conversation would have created that.
Are you still thinking that Plan B is a good thing for my sitch? Had to slip that in you know.
I'm feeling crappy with my mouth and hungry..... I miss my H and the attention he used to give me. I also found out that this place he is looking to work for isn't all it's cracked up to be. It could be a bad mistake and there isn't anything I can say is there?
I told you I'm always striving for PERFECTION..sigh..I have some projects around here..still haven't found the wreath for the door for one thing..time to replenish the candles..maybe make a lowfat dessert..DOMESTIC STUFF..my H works on the weekends and is not around much...he's always calling me on the phone, though..so there's lots of chatting...
Yes, PLAN B...
No, helping him out about the job is off limits and disrespectful, don't you think? You know better than him about what he needs to do? It would be different IF you were working together as a team. Let him have to rely on her for feedback...
That's the point of PLAN B. Her advice will be poor and rotten. Let him see her for who she is..clueless..
Remember in order for him to be motivated to come home, end that relationship, he has TO SUFFER..so it would be good if the job is bad for him...
Being involved in an affair, especially an affair with someone like her is SELF-DESTRUCTIVE..he will make poor life decisions as long as he is living like this..
You don't want to RESCUE him from the SUFFERING and the PAIN..
Going to the dentist last night was a very bad trigger, getting gas and not feeling for that 2 hours was NOT a good thing for me at all. I loved it and am really scared about my sobriety.
I'm hanging in there as best as I can, and just praying, going to meetings and talking.
I still see myself as the loser in all this and WH is the one living it up in a new life.
I'm scared for my sobriety... The gas and the prescription I had my hands on could have been the death of me because I was already planning on when I could take all the vicadin at once and not feel.
I still see myself as the loser in all this and WH is the one living it up in a new life.
Living it up, going to the FOOD BANK? Sounds like lots of fun... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
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The gas and the prescription I had my hands on could have been the death of me because I was already planning on when I could take all the vicadin at once and not feel.
That would be breaking a MAJOR PROMISE. I heard this.
Take control of your THINKING, Queenie. Let your THOUGHTS take charge and not your FEELINGS....because when the FEELINGS take over, you want to numb them out...
I don't believe in just LETTING GO of FEELINGS anymore...without the THOUGHT PROCESS being in charge...like telling yourself: "I am not going to have a TOTAL MELTDOWN..I am going to FIGHT IT..
He wants a letter saying that he is giving me half of his paycheck. So that he can get assistance for his electric bill. Can you believe how low he has gotten. How can he be proud of that?
Actually the letter in a way helps me. I was going to write that as of this day my WH is giving me half of his paycheck for spousal maintenance and child support. Should that change I will contact you immediately.
Which does two things. It gets it in writing that he is paying me spousal support and I want that documented for the lawyer and that he knows if he screws me over, I will tell the food bank and he will suffer the consequences.
It's maddening, that he doesn't keep me informed about his job, etc, just give me what I want.
He knew what he was doing was WRONG but he was ADDICTED. You UNDERSTAND, don't cha?
OH YES, I do.
The hard part is that it's not obvious like drinking or drugging and so my mind plays games with me. He is SO CONVINCING that he has his s... together and is working hard on this relationship to create trust, honesty and openeness. Wouldn't someone think you should have that in a relationship at the very start, not be working on it all the time? Oh that's right, they cheated and lied to be together. My mistake...:)
I get we need to work on me. I truly get it. I just am lost how to take that first step.
Probably CHEST OUT, HEAD UP, and announcing that after gaining 10 lbs in a little over week, I have finally lost that and hit the official 81 lbs.
He is the stupid one isn't he. What he is doing is wrong, isn't it? Being committed to a M is what G-d expects of us doesn't he and to figure out how to make it work.
Having an affair is just plain selfish and destructive and so hurtful. And he doesn't give a hoot.
Ok, I remember now. Have you consulted with your L on that matter. Just in case it affects anything with your LSA. IMO I would not give any lettre otherthan love notes without your L's approval.
I agree with TMTS about avoiding him and giving him the letter. Let his electricity get cut off. He can come stay with you in the apartment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
This is the tricky part... if he took that new job, no longer is his paycheck being deposited into my account and then he is messing with me financially.
If I don't give him what he wants, then he will get mad and hurt me. While I can take the hurt, financially I can't take the hit.
And getting that letter in writing, if my lawyer agrees will help me in the long run because they he is saying to everyone that he is giving me half his check for spousal maintenance as well as child support.
Remember I am going for spousal maintenance and I have to show that he has been paying it. It appears to me, but my lawyer needs to confirm, that this gives me my documentation. And if this new job does create more bonuses then he still is saying that he is giving me half his paycheck.
And if he stops, then I contact the foodbank and he loses his help.
Makes sense, Queenie. You know what's best regarding your financial situation. I really don't know much about legal matters. I like that you have your THINKING CAP on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I may be a sap for this man. I may love him with all my heart and want him to come home no matter what.
BUT.... I am NOT STUPID. And I AM NOT ABOUT TO BE SCREWED FINANCIALLY because of his ADDICTION.
I know you don't like to label people but WH is a passive-agressive man and giving him the opportunity to cut me off financially would play right into his hands. Not only would he benefit financially with the extra money until I could get him into court, but it would hurt me and my children tremendously and I have to protect us.
If I didn't need the money, oh trust me.... my fingers would freeze before they hit the pen and paper.
Please keep your strength. You have to protect yourself first. Remember what you told me about my daughter. Don't allow the addicted to bring you down.
As Jennifer told me, you have to proceed as though they aren't coming back to protect your future. It's tragic, but you have to do it. Protect your finances!
As his situation erodes, OP will start to become a ball and chain around his ankle.
Remember I am going for spousal maintenance and I have to show that he has been paying it. It appears to me, but my lawyer needs to confirm, that this gives me my documentation. And if this new job does create more bonuses then he still is saying that he is giving me half his paycheck.
This is why I suggested you see your L. Just in case he can use this as a legal document to give you a hard time with your LSA. To me, you shouldn't even consider the letter. All the terms will be spelled out in detail in the LSA. Not sure how it works in WA but here in Ontario the calculation for spousal support is quite simple. Add both gross salaries, Divide by two and the on with the higher salary needs to make up the difference to take the lower salaried spouse up to that median. Now I don’t know how the calculation is affected when child support is involved. The point I'm trying to illustrate is that you do not want to give him anything in writing that he could potentially use against you later.
Now IMO it is a very good thing that he is having difficult financial times. It will only be a matter of time before he and the crack head start arguing about her going to work, and her habit. It may open his eyes to what she really needs him for. If she goes to work, or gets into rehab, then he doesn't have this issue...or like Mimi says, he could just simply come home.
I was thinking that since he left he has had nothing but financial troubles.
Remember he moved from a 3000 sq ft house to a one bedroom apt and slept on the couch in the living room for almost 4 months. He turned over his entire paycheck from May until the middle of October and virtually lived off of that old man. He bragged to me about how he knew exactly when to get into the food line to get the most amount of food.
This house he lives in is considered the Deliverance area and it's tiny. It's tiny and isolated and old, very old with no heat. His world is lacrosse, work, her and cutting up firewood, oh and the absolute chaos they live in.
This having financial trouble has been with them the entire way. It's almost like they feed off of how to survive the cheapest. I think its like white trailer trash.
I mean no disrespect to anyone. He just has lost all of his standards of what is ok. Or who knows, maybe he is most comfortable in that.
He got used to a certain lifrstyle and I don't care how much he makes it sound like he's happy in his new found life, he will get sick of it pretty soon becasue right now there are no emergency expenses that he needs to worry about. That will come. Hang tight Queenie because if he goes through that and still doesn't come back then do you really want him? You can do better I'm sure of it.
Hang in there Queenie. You've seemed like such a strong woman, with weak moments. I have the SAME issue with finances, I know I don't "need" him for anything other than that! Yes I want him, but really only the him that's moral and decent. So far he's been decent with his paycheck, but like in your situation, it could change. Keep me in your prayers, as I keep you in mine ;-)
I don't believe this for a moment. Who would want me?
But really that isn't what this is about. I love him and just have faith that the person that is good and my H still exists way way deep down and would be gone forever if I gave up. I can't abandon him when he is so sick.
However, I am lonely and I don't want to spend my life alone without someone to share my life with.
As for the emergency money, he lived in a tent for a few days because they were broke and got thrown out of their apt after the chaotic story of non payment. He just seems to keep landing on his feet with finances no matter what. He lives in his head and his lies, and that's what has ALWAYS, been his downfall and destruction
I'm trying Serenity to stay strong. If I do, it's because G-d just has my life and I am walking through it because of him. I will honor myself that I have hit 83 3/4 lbs as of this morning. WooHoo.....
Going to the dentist last night was a very bad trigger, getting gas and not feeling for that 2 hours was NOT a good thing for me at all. I loved it and am really scared about my sobriety.
Queenie, Stress can definitely induce feelings that can cause you to want to numb yourself and not feel... Do you have a timeline in mind for going to Plan B? It sounds like you are ready for it. Just make sure that your head and heart are in synch. When you do go into Plan B, you need to be really dark and your focus is going to have to be completely on yourself..Have you started coming up with a plan for YOU? You will have to plan your life as though WH is not coming back and start down a new path for yourself...maybe you should start to make a list of all the things you can do to focus on yourself..Do you have any hobbies that you enjoy? Is there a course you'd like to take to improve yourself at a local college? Do you have a support system in place that can be there for you? How about thinking about things you can do to pamper yourself?
It may be a good time to start thinking about these things, and start to shift your focus from your WH, because in Plan B you have to be totally dark..and in Plan B you will go through withdrawal from WH..you will have to adjust to no contact as well..I am just thinking of things that may be helpful to you as you move closer to Plan B..you mentioned before that you didn't know how to take the first step in focusing on yourself, maybe these things can help..
Actually there are emergency expenses, that's why he is desparate, one of their cars is breaking.
But we also have to remember, this is a twice divorced drug addict who lives off of the state or welfare or whatever and is use to finding money and doing things cheap. So she is opening his world up in so many ways. I think I could puke.
Just make sure that your head and heart are in synch.
I am being forced into this because of the situation. I have NO OTHER choices. No, I don't want to plan and live a life without my H, but I have NO OTHER choices.
He is receptive to Plan A, when I dissapear and then come back after a couple of weeks. He always responds favorably to me. And him admitting that he still loved me through me to be quite honest.
But he believes that he has a right to destroy other peoples lives because of what HE WANTS and screw the rest of us. I don't think that I can continue to subject myself to that kind of destruction and selfishness. I don't think G-d wants that for me.
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Have you started coming up with a plan for YOU?
Yes and no. I am looking to buy a house and have projects to help me through. I like to quilt and am going to make a quilt about this journey of my life to hang up in my house. I have an AMAZING SUPPORT SYSTEM. Not just on here but in real life. ABSOLUTELY ROCK SOLID support system.
I have toyed with going back and learning Hebrew to study to become a rabbi. I love to travel and if I had the money would go on a cruise. Fortunately the timing of this is perfect because lacrosse season for my boys is upon us and that will take up my time and give me things, plus my AA meetings.
So, yes I have lots and lots to keep me occupied, BUT IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT AND I feel hollow inside at being forced to do this. I love him so much and that reality that I might never see him again in my life is killing me inside. But there is NO OTHER WAY. I have to fight for my M with the best possible chance and Plan B is the only next step.
As for the time frame, as soon as I can be secured he can't screw with the money, I am good to go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will have my letter ready.
All I can do, is completely TRUST G-D AND BEG HIM TO LEAD ME OUT OF EGYPT TO MY PROMISED LAND.
PS, just got off the phone and the lawyer sees nothing wrong with the letter, he says that the courts really like to keep to what arrangements have been set up and if he is admitting to paying me spousal maintenance and child support in this letter, then it's helping me in the long run. I'm just going to be hard to get a hold of and make him sweat.
One of my favorite things about you, Julie, is that you NEVER feel sorry for yourself. You have every right to do so, but you never do. Instead of having a pity party, you always look for solutions. That is an ADMIRABLE trait that will greatly contribute to your path out of this dilemma. You're alright for a kid!
This is exactly what I am doing a lot of the times. Feeling sorry for myself. Feeling sorry for myself is just another way of stinkin thinkin isn't it Mimi?
I just got off the phone with my GF and we are taking our kids to the movies to go see Bucket List. I think that will be a great thing for us to do. So I have to hurry up and get my work done, get my butt to tanning booth and then get home.
Has anyone seen the movie? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
All I can do, is completely TRUST G-D AND BEG HIM TO LEAD ME OUT OF EGYPT TO MY PROMISED LAND.
God will definitely lead you, just keep putting your trust and faith in HIM...remember, it's all in HIS hands. Keep doing the best that you can...and God will take care of the rest. Enjoy the movie..I saw the Bucket List and enjoyed it..you will surely get more than a few chuckles out of it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Cleaning my house today and then going out to dinner with my dh and a few friends..It's cold here in Chicago but its sunny out, so that makes it a bit better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I guess I should log off now and finish up cleaning so that I'll be ready for dinner later..
I LOVED the movie. Of course I cried the whole way through pretty much. Am completely exhausted.
Remember that poem, if you love something set it free, if it comes back it was yours, if not, then it wasn't. I really have to absolutely, unconditionally set him free and move on with my own life.
My WH is losing the best things in life, but he has that right and I have no right to control him. I just will have to learn to love him and never be with him.
Who knows maybe one day G-d will have another man planned for me to love and be in a relationship with. Until then, I'm just going to make my own bucket list.
Any chance of getting a little direction of Torah to read tonight. I am on vacation and would like to dialoge with you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I need to get to bed, since I'm not on vacation, have been sick all week and have to be at church in about 7 hours...But let's see what I can come up with.
Weren't you going to ask me a question about something last week?
Deut 28:7-8 The Lord will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but will flee from you in seven. The Lord will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to.
Proverbs 16:7 When a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord, he makes even his enemies live at peace with him.
I hope you slept well. I fell asleep. I was exhausted. Worked through much yesterday.
Anyways, I hope your sermon goes well today. I'll be thinking about you. Yes, I did have a question. What is the Passover sacrifice? Is that what we do in a seder?
I was thinking that somehow I need to incorporate lighting the candles, blessing the bread and grape juice somehow each week in my life. I miss doing that because I don't go to services anymore.
I am looking at how I have left a lot of the traditions I used to do because I did them for my H and our family, and now he isn't here and I don't have the energy.
But what reasonates over and over in my head, is I am not living a Jewish life right now, I am seeking G-d, but not in my Judaism, which was so important to me. Shabbat was something that G-d commanded and I am feeling like I need to practice this in my life regularly as I imagine it will help me to rest and find peace in my life.
Is there a reason you don't go to services anymore?
My hubby and I were very active in our church - leaders. When he had his affair it was so difficult to go alone.....But I forced myself to go, and am so glad I did.
Partly because my temple wants me to just walk away from my M. They believe I am better off without him.
And I go to AA meetings now. We don't have a rabbi so I am not really missing a sermon. But I miss the Judaism and way of life in my life a great deal.
Oh, I missed that your temple wants you to walk away. That is sad.
My church backed me 100%. The pastor even contacted my husband and told him he was no longer welcome until he came in and talked to the pastors. I can't tell you how good that felt, to be supported like that by our church.
He needs the letter today, can he come by after work. I really think I want to call him and tell him that I have dropped it off at the food bank. What do you think of me doing that.
I know some of the people down there and would love to do a little exposure of WH and OP.
The other thing that is frustrating me is he hasn't said one word about what he is doing about the job. Is it unreasonable to think that in his attempt to get something from me he could let me know if he quit his job or is that silly on my part? Or is it an expectation? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Give him the letter. Don't play games. If he has a new job, the employer has 1 month to report him as a new hire to the OCSE (Office of Child Support Enforcement). This will record his place of employment and any orders of child or spousal support will be enforced with a letter going directly to his new employer.
You are both right. I came to the same conclusion. I had planned to call him and let him know the letter will be taped to the door at work. I don't want to see him, it's too hurtful and sad for me.
I can't continue to play games and manipulate because this is not my battle. It's G-d's and I am just getting in the way of him reachig my WH and continuing the work that he is creating in me.
It's just so hard and not what I want to do. I'm just simply scared that this is forever. And when I look at that, I have to change my thinking because I only have today.
G-d needs me away from this insanity to heal myself completely and create a new life. I can't do that intwined with a sick, alien, destructive man who is out to destroy his life and not care that he is hurting other people.
Thank you both..... I might need a little hand holding during the withdrawals. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It's done. He has the letter, actually ran into him and crack ho at the school, gave him a hug and talked to him for a few.
He couldn't wait to get away from me. He quit his job, and I called him to ask what he had said. He didn't want to talk, said he would call me back. He didn't imagine that.
He asked me what I had been doing all day. I told him looking for houses. That I found one that I liked. I didn't invite him to go see it.
He left, she followed. I went to the lawyer, finished the final papers and they are going to court tomorrow.
How do I deliver Plan B, because the next step he is served papers or I go to work and tell him what I've done, hand him the letter and walk out of his life forever.
Please tell me I am doing the right thing. It's what G-d wants me to do. I falling apart. I don't want this hurt inside of me anymore.
Another Chicagoan? We're going to have to have a Midwest MB picnic this summer. There's a bunch of us around Chitown.
Hi Mark, Hopefully summer will be on its way soon, Lord knows it was frigid today!...a picnic sounds like fun....It's always nice to meet fellow chicagoan Mb'ers!
sorry for the slight TJ Queenie, hope you are doing well today.
That was just one more step. Plan B will be but another. All to get you to your final destination where you will open the door to happiness. Will your H be there with you, it's to early to tell, but you will make it I have no doubt. You protected yourself and took care of something that was not easy for him either. So well done.
Please tell me I am doing the right thing. It's what G-d wants me to do.
You're not still asking this question for real, are you? I think it got answered about 150 some pages ago...
I haven't forgotten about your question, BTW. I'm just trying to figure out how to answer without opening a can of worms...
I think the answer is really that for Christians, our passover is Messiah. We believe that Yeshua (Jesus) was the ultimate lamb, provided by God just as he provided the ram to replace Isaac, (a substitutionary sacrifice - which BTW, I think is exactly what God established as a condition for acceptance when He killed animals to provide clothing for Adam and Eve in the garden. He established a substitutionary sacrifice, since He had said that they would surely die if they sinned, and that requirement for a death to atone for their sin was provided for by Him) and that just as God's wrath was turned away by the blood of the Passover lamb on the doors of the homes, the blood shed by Messiah is sufficient to turn away God's wrath and judgment we so deserve. It isn't what I can do that makes me righteous before God, but what God has already done for me, since before Him, I am worthless in all my own righteousness. Messiah is also the sacrifice of atonement, the sin offering, the fulfillment of all the laws and commandments, provided for us by God himself.
I think that according to rabbinic tradition, the shank bone (Z'roa) is the symbol of the lamb that cannot be sacrificed today because we do not have the temple in which to perform the sacrifice. So just as the salt water symbolizes the tears of the captives, and the bitter herbs the bitterness of slavery, the bone symbolizes the lamb. Which as I recall is why many also add the Beitzah, the roasted egg as substitute for the festival sacrifice, though usually beside the Seder plate rather than on it, since eggs are the symbol of mourning and we mourn the loss of the temple and the ability to sacrifice as God ordained.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
You protected yourself and took care of something that was not easy for him either. So well done.
What do you mean, took care of something that was not easy for him?
Mark,
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You're not still asking this question for real, are you? I think it got answered about 150 some pages ago...
In the olden days, when I went to school, repitition was the name of the game. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I kind of thought that's what it was, but wasn't sure. How funny that we are starting to come into the Exodus, Passover is a couple of months away.
Since I have already admitted to myself that by not lighting candles, saying blessing over bread and grape juice, I am not observing what G-d commanded, and I think that this would be an important step in my recovery to embrace shabbat regularly again. It really helps to bring an end to the week and peace into my life.
One other thing I want to do, is find the Torah portion for this week and begin to prepare myself for Passover. I think that it will be good to clean my home in preparation as well as heal my soul and truly begin to seek G-d in my life through my traditions.
As I begin to create my new life, I need to find what is most important to me. My Judaism was and honestly is still so important to me. It's a way of life that will help me heal because I think it will allow me to keep connected to G-d throughout the day and focused any something else other than my H.
G-d knows my heart, for that I have no doubt. But I really do get that G-d needs me to completely step aside and let him work. It's the ONLY way.
So, let's see, what's the Torah portion this week for me to study? Ki Tisa, Exodus 30:11−34:35
I'll be back... with questions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
thanks Mark in trusting that I am not too old to remember what was told to me at least 150 pages ago.
Exodus 30. God enumerates the people and to be counted, they each must pay a half shekel for atonement as they cross over from the uncounted to the counted.
And the price is the same for all, the rich (those who consider themselves to be able to pay their own way) pay exactly the same price as those who are poor, (those who have no hope in and of themselves) and in the end, it is God who supplies all.
I could make quite a sermon out of this passage.
To be counted as one of His own, there is a cost, and it is the same for all, for those who consider themselves as righteous and those who cry out to Him for mercy.
The fact that he needed this letter would be a big shot to his ego, so comming to you to ask for it would not have been easy. You handled it with grace and he'll remmeber tht.
When a Jew dies it is not customary for people to send flowers at all. In fact, I wouldn't say forbidden, but it is no encouraged because we ALL came into this world with nothing and the same and we ALL leave this world the same way.
I suppose that this passage is where that custom came from?
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could make quite a sermon out of this passage.
I would enjoy reading it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ok is this odd or is it G-d. You know how I was just restling with the fact that I haven't kept the traditions of Shabbat as regularly as I would like. This is what else is in the Torah portion for the week.
Exodus 31-12:14 And the Lord said to Moses, Speak to the Israelite people and say, Nevetheless, you must keep My sabbath, for this is a sign between Me and y7ou through the ages, that you may know that I the Lord have consecrated you. You shall keep the sabbath, for it is holy for you.
Exodus 31:16 The Israelite people shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout the ages as a covenant for all time.
One of the commentaries say - the last of the seven diving commands about the building of the sanctuary concerns teh seventh day of the week. Suspending construction on the Sabbath indicates that holy time is more important than holy space.
I guess I have my answer about keeping shabbat more regularly don't I.
The fact that he needed this letter would be a big shot to his ego, so comming to you to ask for it would not have been easy. You handled it with grace and he'll remmeber tht.
I love him, there is no other way to have handled it.
However, I don't think he even gave that a thought that I was helping him. It's all about him and his new life with her. Not to mention he seems to be proud of the way he is living and enjoys how resourceful he is at getting things free. That truly blows my mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I see what you are saying about the selfishness and not having this affect him in the least. It's just too strange to choose to live like that when you don't have to.
Life is busy... we are both working real hard at recovery and so far so good. I really think we will make it with a little help, witch we are getting from Jennifer right now. Right now the concentration is on EN, knowing them, meeting them and giving feedback on them.
The thing I need to keep in check is not reverting back to old habits, so I need to go through my whole thread and remind myself of some of the personal discoveries I made.
I know you're sad and hurting about finally offically getting to Plan B, but I think you'll find peace there. It will be rough at first, no getting around that, but just keep coming here and let your fellow MBers help you.
I believe that your WH is on a destructive path and things will only get worse for him. That's HIS choice and that is out of your control.
But now it's time to COMPLETELY turn your eyes away from WH and upward to G-d. TRUST that G-d will sustain you, no matter what happens with your marriage.
It is sad. And it's hard. But I know there is no other way. My heart and mind aren't truly in sync, but you are right he is on a destructive path and my children and myself need to be out of the warfare and the fallout. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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But now it's time to COMPLETELY turn your eyes away from WH and upward to G-d. TRUST that G-d will sustain you, no matter what happens with your marriage.
I'm not sure I totally know how to turn my eyes away from WH. But I can certainly turn my eyes to G-d. I know he was with me yesterday when I was just calm. Sad but calm.
I'm thinking it's time to end this thread and start my new life and a new thread?
I'm thinking it's time to end this thread and start my new life and a new thread?
Sure. A lot of people start a new thread when they hit the Plan B turning point. And it is a turning point. New life, new attitude, new thinking. Remember Queenie... with G-d... THE IMPOSSIBLE BECOMES THE POSSIBLE.
Remember Queenie... with G-d... THE IMPOSSIBLE BECOMES THE POSSIBLE.
I know. Just petrified.
I feel like I am jumping off the cliff and that's how I have to go in order to arrive safely down at the bottom. And my life is in G-ds hands. No ifs, ands about it.
OK, Queenie, you mentioned jumping off the cliff and, OF COURSE, it reminded me of a song (you know me and lyrics).
Now this song is OBVIOUSLY about Christ. I know that in the past you have given me permission to share anyway, and so I respectfully share these lyrics.
Notice the part about jumping. It is beautiful music, too. If you want to listen, you can find it at youtube.com
Nichole Nordeman - What If From the album Brave
What if you’re right? And he was just another nice guy What if you’re right? What if it’s true? They say the cross will only make a fool of you And what if it’s true?
What if he takes his palace in history With all the prophets and the kings Who taught us love and came in peace But then the story ends What then?
(Chours) But what if you’re wrong? What if there’s more? What if there’s hope you never dreamed of hoping for? What if you jump? And just close your eyes? What if the arms that catch you, catch you by surprise? What if He’s more than enough? What if it’s love?
What if you dig, What if you dig Way down deeper than your simple-minded friends What if you dig? What if you find A thousand more unanswered questions inside That’s all you find
What if you pick apart the logic And begin to poke the holes What if the crown of thorns is no more Then folklore that must be told and retold
(Chours)
You’ve been running as fast as you can You’ve been looking for a place you can land so long But what if you’re wrong?
What if you jump? And just close your eyes? What if the arms that catch you, catch you by surprise? What if He’s more than enough? What if it’s love?
Oh Serenity, you are so strong and sweet. Thank you. I just hate to see people in pain and hurting, being kind is what I love to do most. {{{{{{{{{{Serenity}}}}}}}}}}}
One day, I am sure joy and happiness will return. I'm just afraid of heights. Who knew... Certainly not me.
One of God's commands to Israel was that they be holy. The word holy means 'separate" or "apart from the world." The way this would be accomplished was by keeping his commands and one of those is Shabbat. No other nation or people had a day of rest in those days. It was unheard of since only the very very rich had any free time at all. Simply doing what it takes to survive in the world required so much effort that taking a day off from the daily toil of life was pretty much impossible.
But by taking the seventh day as a day of rest, it proved God's will for the people by not only giving then the rest, but also by proving that those who obey God's commands can not only survive, but thrive, in spite of doing something the world simply did not understand.
When in the dispersion, it was the Sabbath that kept the people separate from the rest of the culture and in some cases, as the succeeding generations were assimilated more and more, soon it was just the Sabbath that made them stand apart from the culture. So not only did Shabbat keep them separate by making them different, but by keeping Shabbat, the difference was reinforced even more.
As much as it was the Jews who kept the Sabbath, it was the Sabbath that kept the Jews.
And that is the reason for all the commands. By keeping God's commands it makes His people different from the rest of the world, but at the same time, by keeping His commands, we are kept apart from it as well. Doing what He requires of us is for us and not just for Him. It is to our benefit to do as He commands us.
Just checking in on you. I'm here should you need someone to talk to. Plan B is scary. You have thought this through though, and are much better prepared than I was.
When I did my Plan B, it was basically out of frustration, which probably wasn't the best way to go, but after 9 months and many broken NC's and false recoveries I cracked under the pressure.
You are going in after the best Plan A, and also going in for you, for your own sanity and peace. We'll survive because the will to live is a strong one. Our work here isn't done yet.
And of course someone would want you. You happen to be one of the most caring, and nicest individuals that I know. I'm honored to have met you here. You have helped me more than you know....
What a great question. I thought about this as I walked to my meeting tonight. I think in many ways I am getting I am a worthy person.
I went to the lawyer, signed the papers for the legal separation. I went looking for houses yesterday, I recognized when I was emeshed with WH in a game and got out of it. I went exercising yesterday, and not only did I exercise this morning, but I walked to my meeting tonight. I have been to a meeting every night since Wednesday night last week.
My thoughts are still slow in thinking I am a worthy person, but my actions are showing I am. I am taking care of myself, my spirit, my body, I am treating myself to retail therapy, spending time with my children. I am suiting up and showing up even when my mind would rather give up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And I am talking to G-d. In many ways, I feel like I have jumped and I am just soaring for a little while, like today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
But you are right, my stinkin thinkin still lives inside, it's my disease and I have to shut it out.
Hi Chai, I miss you. Let's try and talk tomorrow. How is your DD. How are you? Thank you... I'll try and remember that.
One day I will recover and look back on this and know that G-d did good. Tonight I am just soaring from jumping and I am leaving my hands and my life in G-ds care.
I am about to go watch Boston Legal with my son. I haven't done that in almost 9 months. I want some mommy veg time with him.
I think I actually almost slept the entire night. Wow. I'm still groggy and not getting up as early as I would like.
The DOMESTIC GODDESS NEEDS TO STRIKE AT HOME. I have been busy keeping myself away from home, and two teenage boys. Well you can imagine.
I spoke with DD last night, she found out that WH quit his job. Oh my goodness is she upset. Not b/c he is leaving but b/c she found out from co-workers. She's hurt and she knows her dad isn't there anymore. She was so upset she went up to his office and took the pictures of her and the kids. She does't want him to have anything of her if he is going to ignore her.
As I was talking to her on the phone I was explaining, to her that he is just looking for happiness, etc. My YS got very upset and yelled out, STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM. I didn't get upset or try to fix it, b/c he is right.
I'm doing ok today. I have plans to get my boys up to the high school for camp, take pictures, then go to an all you can eat sushi place - not really into that, and then come home and see how the day plays out.
I can really see that what is happening to him is a very destructive path, but with G-d and your 2 x 4's, I will just stay out of the way.
Don't give it a second thought. I realized that part of me delaying giving him the letter is because then I won't have a reason to talk on here or somewhere in my mind I am thinking I am losing you. I know that stupid and stinkin thinkin...
I just got off the phone with DD. Evidently her dad called her today to accuse her of stealing his stuff. He blew up at her and she pretty much told him to screw off and hang up.
She is so angry at him because she truly gets how lost he is. It hurts. There is NOTHING I can do. The kids are so mad at him it's amazing that he just doesn't get it. And now he has one more excuse to be the victim.
My DD wants to sign me up for Eharmony and get another guy in my life. My kids want me to D their dad immediately. How come I get to keep feeling and dealing with all the pain and he just lives in this plastic world.
I know, I am learning about myself and my G-d. And he has better plans for me when I am through it. I'm still in air after having jumped last night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just checked online for my banking. And I am a little pissed. Remember I said that WH started going back to the gym, well he is having the MONEY come out of OUR joint account without saying anything to me. He made it seem like he was paying for it.
How should I handle this? Just let it go, go into Plan B and then cancel his account?
I'm sorry, Queenie. It's hard to keep up with all the details. So I'm not sure about your point. I was suggesting that once he puts his money into the joint account, take out ALL that YOU need to pay your expenses, only leaving the extra in there, if any, for him to use for the gym or whatever. The main thing is for you to get all the money tha you need, right? Don't be surprised about his entitlement, lying and deceitfulness.
The main thing is for you to get all the money tha you need, right?
Absolutely
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Don't be surprised about his entitlement, lying and deceitfulness.
Why do they still do this? He is living with her, he doesn't need to lie anymore to me.
It's really sad to watch the destruction he is causing. G-d us certainly being active in his life. I'm glad I am out of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I went looking at two houses today. One was my dream home, something I always dreamed of having with my H. It has land, an open country look. It's 2000 sq. ft, manufactured home on 1.25 acres, in the mountains. Perfect. It's perfect.
But it's 1 mile away from HIM and OW and there is no way my boys will go look at it.
Why would something so perfect, that I always dreamed of with my H be so close at reach and yet, so not touchable. Why would G-d lead me to there knowing the pain and sadness it would bring because he knows my heart and knows how this was something I always dreamed of.
Please tell me one day it won't hurt like this. That I will somehow find the strength to enjoy life.
I know neither one of us believes it now, but I'm convinced that it won't hurt like this forever. There will be some pain that will always be with us because we just can't erase those years of our lives, and we can't erase the betrayal either. It will always hurt.
Not sure what the answer is about the house, but I know that he will lead you to the right one. Somehow, you'll know.
I'll be here all evening if you would like to talk. Just give me a call.
I know about that pain. Every once in awhile I get a reprieve from it, but then it comes back and it really is horrible. We're on a journey and we've got to believe it will get better than this. We're learning from this and becoming stronger and some day God will perhaps use us because of our strength to help someone else.
I truly appreciate your kind words. I am not able to say those things about myself yet. But I am doing things that are worthy and being respectful of G-ds faith in me.
I had a revelation about my drugging and drinking all those years ago and realized how much I hated myself then, and for years because I didn't think of myself as worthwhile.
Today I can say that I am learning to take care of myself in a healthy way and say thank you to a compliment.
I am very humbled when you stop by to talk to me. I admire your walk in life with G-d and strive each day to become more and more of what he wants for me.
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You are precious in G-d's eyes, and you will have what G-d wants for you, which is the best.
I need to be understanding and accept that G-d will give me the best when he is ready to. I still have much to learn I think for him yet.
I had a revelation about my drugging and drinking all those years ago and realized how much I hated myself then, and for years because I didn't think of myself as worthwhile.
Today I can say that I am learning to take care of myself in a healthy way and say thank you to a compliment.
Great progress!!! You are working your way up to seeing yourself as God sees you - His Perfect Creation! Most of us dont' ever get to the point of thinking we are "perfect" (thank goodness), but if we can see ourselves even a little bit the way that God does, that is a Good Thing!
Queenie, just picture this. When your children were little and they would toddle around and be so sweet... then they would get into something or ignore our instructions to do or not to do something. Our hearts overflowed with love for that child, even in their disobedience. They would cozy up to us afterwards looking for affirmation that we still loved them (or that they were worthy).
This is how G-d looks at His children. His heart overflows with love for us, even in our disobedience or neglect of Him. We are beautiful to Him, just as our earthly children are beautiful to us. He finds us worthy even when we don't feel worthy. You're working so hard to turn your life completely over to G-d. He sees that. But He has never stopped loving you and you have never been unworthy in His eyes.
He is worthy of praise. You are worthy of His love.
You are not worthy??? No, no, no Queenie... HE is not worthy...
Remember this?
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He really is losing a WINNER and AMAZING woman in me.
Ya, you thought I'd forgotten about that didn't you. I know that you know this, but I'm waiting for the day that you truly believe it in your heart. Until that time, we will keep reminding you of it, because we believe it.
I'd have to say God works in mysterious ways. Continue to read the Bible and you will gain insight into God's character.
I will. Thank you for your encouragment to keep learning about G-ds word.
PM,
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You're working so hard to turn your life completely over to G-d.
I truly am with all my heart and soul. I will do whatever he asks from me. I don't want to live in my will at all. I just am still learning about how and when I am not doing it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks TMTS, I still need to see that. My actions are showing that I am worthy. My words and heart aren't there yet. One day soon G-d willing.
One day I will be able to look at myself in a mirror and know that I am good and worthy. For today, my actions have to speak louder than my words.
Hi Queenie! Thanks for stopping by my thread. I really appreciate it. You are such an inspiration! I know how your heart is hurting, but as you said...Your ACTIONS are speaking LOUDER than your WORDS. I think that might be where I'm at.
I can't wait for you to pick out a new house and tell us all about it. That sounds exciting to me. I wish I could move.
I can't wait for you to pick out a new house and tell us all about it. That sounds exciting to me. I wish I could move.
Well that might not be so fast in my horizon. Evidently the contractor hasn't paid our house payment for a few months and we are now in default. I think was one of the conditions of me getting the loan. So we will have to see.
It's so weird in the past, I would be angry, trying to fix it, etc. and I just have NO DOUBT and TOTAL FAITH, that G-d is working things in my life. I don't want to control I am just going with the flow.
Zorro, I will keep checking on you too. We have such similar walks and pain right now.
Hi Chai, I am sorry we didn't either. I am pretty much home for the weekend and just cleaning.
Oh did the DOMESTIC GODDESS strike my kitchen and porch today. And I lit candles for Shabbat which was important to me.
Today was a GREAT DAY EMOTIONALLY. I wish I could bag this day and hold onto to it. I don't understand why some days are like this and others aren't. I hate rollercoasters, always have.
But today I just seem like I am in G-ds protection. The sun was shining, I am reading this amazing book on living the committed life and I feel protected or peaceful. I am very grateful for today.
You know that G-d is doing a great work within you. Look at all the wonderful changes you have made, that are permanent.
You know that G-d is using this situation to mold you into a better person, that G-d knew who you were before you were even born, and you are precious and WORTHY in His sight.
You know that it is the ENEMY that makes you feel unworthy, and I believe your WS has had something to do with you feeling that no one would want you. Don't you know that this is the ENEMY speaking to you?
You know, I did a lot of stuff that was really wrong, and when my H had his A, G-d humbled me BIG TIME, and showed me that no matter what my H had done in the past to hurt me, it gave me NO RIGHT to treat him the way I had in the past. Yes my anger was JUSTIFIED, but G-d showed me how wrong I was, and yes, when my H was doing the WORST possible thing I had to turn myself around, not return evil for evil and NOT come down on my H.
A lot of crazy, unbelievable stuff happened, but G-d would NOT let me respond to that, I had to take everything that came my way, and believe me, it was hard. I had never seen such evil in my life. A's are hard on the BS, you feel so foolish and humiliated and unworthy.
But I know, in my case that G-d took the WORST situation, and wrought a miracle. My marriage was over, and G-d took what was destroyed and gave me a new marriage, and changed me into a better person. I am still very humble, and I know that ONLY G-D could have taken what was destroyed and healed us, my H, my marriage and myself. I am truely blessed.
I listen. I changed, permanently. I will never, ever, use my H's poor behavior as an excuse to abuse him verbally. I learned to step back, not react, and think of what the healthiest way was for me to respond.
I NEVER put my H down again. I was totally humbled.
Queenie, we all fall short, I am no exception. But what I see you doing is not forgiving yourself for your past behaviors. What I see is a miracle. I can see how much you have changed for the better.
Don't listen to the enemy. When you start thinking that you are unworthy, say to yourself, STOP the bad, I am WORTHY.
Continue to give your life up to G-d. He knows you are listening and are obedient, His child.
You are doing awesome, keep listening and rebuke the ENEMY.
G-d has a plan for YOU. It might not be what you think it should be, but it is the BEST plan for you. G-d knows your heart, and knows what is best for you. Give yourself up to him, and you will have the best that G-d wishes for you.
Okay, I am rambling now.
Just remember that you are precious, worthy, and loved.
You know that G-d is using this situation to mold you into a better person, that G-d knew who you were before you were even born, and you are precious and WORTHY in His sight.
I don't know it yet, I am learning it. However, I am letting my actions speak for my words right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My actions are showing I am worthy and respecful of G-d and the faith he has in me.
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Don't you know that this is the ENEMY speaking to you?
I don't think I ever thought of it that way.
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But what I see you doing is not forgiving yourself for your past behaviors.
I thought I had. Maybe I need to pray on this and see where it leads me. I really thought I had. Can you still forgive yourself and be regretful for your past mistakes.
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Continue to give your life up to G-d. He knows you are listening and are obedient, His child.
I am seeking him with all my heart and soul. I truly believe he is my lifeline to my new life and I just need to have FAITH.
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You are doing awesome, keep listening and rebuke the ENEMY.
Thank you and I am working hard to do this.
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G-d has a plan for YOU. It might not be what you think it should be, but it is the BEST plan for you. G-d knows your heart, and knows what is best for you. Give yourself up to him, and you will have the best that G-d wishes for you.
I think I am being honest and G-d knows otherwise when I say, I really only want to walk in G-ds will and experience the plan he has for me. My way has created ickiness and heartache. I live for G-d and his will for me. I just get impatient wanting to know what that is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Okay, I am rambling now.
Your ramblings are very soothing to me. Please share more of your walk with G-d, it somehow brings me comfort to see how you have been transformed into the woman G-d always envisioned for you.
I guess what I forgot to say is that G-d used the most horrific situation I had ever gone thru to focus on what I needed to do to change.
I couldn't focus on my H's behavior because G-d wanted to change ME. He used that awful time to transform ME into a different person. G-d did his own work on my H, but G-d turned the A into fixing what was wrong with ME.
And I am NOT the person that G-d has envisioned for me. I have made a lot of great changes, but I am a work in progress, I have a long way to go.
I really struggled with alcohol after my H's affair, it was gradual and insidious, and just this last year have I gotten my monster on a leash. I am not perfect, there was so much pain, I knew way too much about my H's affair, more than any BS should EVER know, the ow stalked me in a very bizarre fashion after the A was over, and recovery took a loooong time. I got caught up in self medicating the pain. My darling H was very, very patient with me and I am blessed.
I have felt SO unworthy of G-d, that he gave me the miracle of a restored marriage and a changed H, and I succumbed to the demon alcohol. I came here asking for help with my alcohol issues, but all the vets couldn't/wouldn't help me because they are so firm here about alcohol and drugs being separate issues.
I do wonder sometimes how many FBS's turn to alcohol or drugs after the A to try and deal with the pain.
But you know, G-d has shown me sooo much mercy when I did not deserve it, His grace has covered me in my pain and alcohol abuse. I am past it now.
I did not find MB until about a month after my H's affair was FINALLY over. MB really helped me stay on track and Plan A and B were so close to what G-d was doing in my life. I have been very grateful for that.
It's just that I have been moved to tell you that you are valuable, WORTHY, and precious.
Miss M I can so relate to what you said about your H's affair humbling you.My problem is that my WH still thinks of me having my old mindset and he can't see me getting over the affair.The old me wouldn't be able to,his right,but how do I show him I will be able to after this life-changing experience? Its so frustrating!!
Miss M, I will be back to reread what you have posted. Yours is an amazing story. Thank you for your honesty and openness. I am actually on my way out to my AA meeting in a few minutes.
I have been a very busy GODDESS today. VERY BUSY. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I got up, went for about a 3 mile walk in the sun around the lake, then went to the library, picked out a few books and then went to the tanning booth. Sometime during my walk I gathered up enough strength and decided to go to WH's lacrosse game.
OH YES, CHEST OUT, HEAD UP AND SMILE SHINING, I walked right down onto that field with OW there. I immediately started talking to people and introducing myself as WH's wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I got asked to keep score. At one point I needed to leave the field and get a pen. I know she was hoping that I was leaving for good. NOT..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I walked back down and invaded her space and blocked her out. I talked to the players, one of them particularly from the high school team. I talked to the mgrs wife introduced myself as WH's wife and that he was having an affair with a crack addict with hep C. I loved him and was fighting for him to come home. I told her that I was here to support my husband and that I wasn't going to cause any trouble.
Then she said, you've changed. I asked her if we had met before she said yes and then she said my hair was shorter and a different color. I laughted and said that was the other woman she had met. LOL. I chatted with the refs... they know me as his wife..and the lacrosse mom for Maple Valley.
I walked up and down the side lines, cheering for my honey, very sweetly and supportive. She didn't say one word. She walked over to the ladies at one point and stood by them and they pretty much ignored her. I don't know if they were doing it on purpose or not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
And then at half time, I went and got near where she was, pushing her away from those ladies and just started talking.
My WH, ran by me and barely said hi, in fact I don't think he did at all. He completely ignored me pretty much the whole time and would walk over to her throughout the game and give her a peck kiss. Actually not a very loving kisses, but that's my interpretation.
I can only imagine what OW was thinking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I looked FABULOUS, tan, getting skinny and strutting my strength and territory, all the while completely ignoring her. The weirdest thing is she kept picking at her nails. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Constantly. Don't know what that was about.
She was pretty quiet throughout the game, stood really close to WH. At one point he got sandwiched pretty bad and she walked over there. So did I, but I calmy stayed away and just my presence was enough. I hope he knew I was there.
I felt empowered. She has no idea when I am going to turn up next and when I do, I walk right in like I belong, which I do. Right after the game, I handed off the scoring information and walked away. As I got almost to the end of the field I looked back and there she was staring at me. I turned and smiled, walked up the ramp and held my hands up in success.
I have NO clue whether he is pissed at me or not. I have no idea what home is like for them tonight. But I do know, that she wasn't smiling too much while I was there. Oh, I did notice she is wearing a ring on her wedding finger. I wanted to puke. But of course, I was showing off my BIGGER diamonds in the sunlight and turned to face her a couple of times so she could see that I wear my H wedding ring on my neck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My very tan neck.
So, how did I do? I don't have much Plan Aing time left, so I really wanted to take this opportunity. I just needed to do it for me. I left with the wifes knowing that my H is going through a mid life crisis, I even asked one if she thought he would come out of it. I told her we weren't even legally separated. I just had to do it. I might have lost him forever, but I was going down with a fight, the only way I know how. With my grace, love and support for my H in my heart.
Oh I do have to cop and say that when it was over, I turned to the one wife and said, well I have had enough of being around the slut for one afternoon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know that was wrong, but I did it lovingly and jokingly.
Do you think this will matter to him at all? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
But what I see you doing is not forgiving yourself for your past behaviors.
I thought I had. Maybe I need to pray on this and see where it leads me. I really thought I had. Can you still forgive yourself and be regretful for your past mistakes.
Queenie, I was listening to this song while reading the above quote... maybe it will help.
History by [color:"purple"] [/color] Matthew West
Its been a bad day, you've been looking back And all you can see is everything you wish you could take back All your mistakes, a world of regrets All of those moments you would rather forget I know it's hard to believe Let me refresh your memory
Chorus: Yesterday is history And history is miles away So leave it all behind you Let it always remind you of the day The day that love made history
You know you can't stay right where you fell The hardest part is forgiving yourself But let's take a walk into today And don't let your past get in the way
Repeat chorus
Yeah Yeah
Would you believe that you are history In the making, in the making Every choice that you are making Every step that you are taking Every chain that you are breaking History is in the making Every word that you are saying Every prayer that you are praying Every chain that you are breaking History is in the making History is in the making History is in the making
Repeat chorus
Yeah yeah Oh history is in the making
Every word that you are saying Every prayer that you are praying Every chain that you are breaking History is in the making History is in the making History is in the making
He used that awful time to transform ME into a different person. G-d did his own work on my H, but G-d turned the A into fixing what was wrong with ME.
Miss M, G-d is doing the same in me. I was sick and dying spiritually and G-d has used this time to begin the transformation into the woman he envisions. I like you am a work in progress. There is still so much to be done, but it has begun.
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I do wonder sometimes how many FBS's turn to alcohol or drugs after the A to try and deal with the pain.
But for the grace of G-d so would I have drugged or used, just to take the pain away. I don't know why I didn't, I just kept going back to meeting and praying. I think deep down I knew that one hit or drink would be the end of my life. I couldn't do that to my kids.
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It's just that I have been moved to tell you that you are valuable, WORTHY, and precious.
I am truly humbled by this and your kindness to reach out to me. I understand your pain and path of addiction. It's a walk that I admire because I truly understand how you have to dig deep and just take it one moment at a time.
You are truly a blessing in my life, because you give me hope that maybe G-d thinks my M is worth saving. At least I can still hope. I just have to give it completely over to him. Thank you Miss M. You are truly one of G-d's greatest miracles.
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I just read your post to tst and he and I are cracking up about you getting in the ho's face tonight.
I did ok then. It was the right thing to do? I just needed to go down swinging. I hope that OW understands this is a battle that I intend to win, no matter how long it takes. I just am going to do it by my rules and my way. Did tst think that it would make an impact or impression on my WH?
Chai I was going to call you when I got home from my meeting, but you posted on your thread you were going to sleep. Call me in the am girl so we can talk. I have the phone right next to my bed.
Thank you Exodus, I think I need to repeat this over and over again. I truly thought I had forgiven myself, but maybe not. I love him so much and as I watched at his game this afternoon I thought how sad that he is missing out on his children and his children are missing out on family time. It truly just hurts. I hope I get the chance to apologize to him one day for the hurts I caused him.
since there is an infidelity ten years after the first, there is every reason to believe that there have been more affairs.
I just read this over on Despairs thread from MEDC.
It has me thinking. My WH cheated on me when I was pregnant with my first child. That's when things got out of control with his drugs. Then when I was pregnant with my 2nd, he went out and slipped us into financial insecurity. Then years later when we moved up here he was found out to have been calling phone sex lines.
The one thing I noticed this time was that he was unavailable most of the time.
Could it be that there have been others, and he just wasn't found out? Does it matter to know?
You are NOT the crazy one. I am happy to see that you are not going down without a fight.
I showed up at one of my FWS's gigs with the ow. I went in and sat in a corner behind a post. I was so skinny that no one could see me and I sat there and watched as my H and others saw my car and started freaking!! Pointing at my car and looking all around.lol
I waited until they got up to play and went out front. The ow said 'Do I have a song for you' and I said I don't THINK SO. I then went in front of my H, used a slashing motion across my throat, pointed at him and left. It felt good, and ow did a LOT of LBing that night. LOL. I also called her up at one point where my H had been hanging with me and avoiding her for a couple of weeks, but ended up taking her to see on of MY favorite singers, and let her know, nicely, or COURSE, that he had been intimate with me the whole time they were in their A. She called and left a message to my H ripping into him for being unfaithful to HER. LOL. Anyway, that did a lot to end the A. But that did not stop her from calling him and leaving a message about having SF ONE more time. yuckyuckyuck.
I stood up and fought for my M. So I say good for you. I probably wouldn't have told anyone she was a sl^t tho. You naughty girl! LOL.
Well, I guess everyone knows where you stand Queenie!!! I feel bad that you had to watch your WS show affection to the ow in front of you. But you still stood strong, and didn't react besides the above. I probably would have said the same had I witnessed something like that myself.
You did VERY well, and showed your strength. Keep up the good stuff Queenie, until you are ready for plan B.
I probably wouldn't have told anyone she was a sl^t tho. You naughty girl! LOL.
No, that wasn't a very G-d like thing to say about her.
I know she is G-ds child as well and he loves her just as much as he loves me. I don't want her to hurt, I just want her to let my H go. I pray for her to hoping that she will realize what is happening.
I feel for her. She has this selfish WH, not my H who is loving and giving and wouldn't have done this. At least I don't think so.
I don't know if I will have many more opportunities to Plan A. I don't know if I will go to his next game, but I know that she will be wondering where I could possible turn up next or what I might be doing. I am surely renting space in her head and I like that thought. I hope G-d isn't too mad at me.
G-d isn't mad at you. Why would He be mad at you for taking a STAND for your M?
Well, I did not know about your WS's past infidelities. My H also had many years of porn use and phone sex. He, at one time ran up a 1700.00 bill for that crap. Yes, I had some anger, insecurities and issues. I was not too nice, and it would take me months to get over it. Talk about not feeling good enough, how can you compete with that nastiness?
I am very blessed in that my H has given all of this up. I don't know if there was more than that before, but it is all moot now as my H is a very good boy now.
I am concerned that this is not the first time your H has been unfaithful.
You know, your WS's behavior over the years has done a lot to destroy your self worth.
Either G-d will restore your M or restore you. You deserve SO much better, and I believe G-d has a much better life in store for you, and your boys.
You know, your WS's behavior over the years has done a lot to destroy your self worth.
Yes it has. But I have to take responsibility and know that I allowed it to happen. Or I could have handled it in healthier ways. Sometimes I think that once I stopped playing the games is when he went and found her b/c he can control her. She doesn't understand the abuse and games he plays. It's so under handed and manipulative you think you are crazy and questioning if it really is happening.
That's where I wish G-d would tell me that I was abused all these years and I want you away from that.
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I am concerned that this is not the first time your H has been unfaithful.
I wonder about that too. I wish I could ask him.
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Either G-d will restore your M or restore you. You deserve SO much better, and I believe G-d has a much better life in store for you, and your boys.
I truly hope so because this pain is just unbearable somedays and I just want it to be over.
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G-d isn't mad at you. Why would He be mad at you for taking a STAND for your M?
Because I called her a slut and that wasn't very g-d like.
Have a great day yourself Miss M. I am trying to find the courage to take out my sewing machine and begin a block of my quilt. I am struggling terribly with this. Partly because I remember my H saying, you never make anything for me. When I did, we didn't have the money to finish it off and it just sat. The last thing I made was an applique picture for him of eagles. It was an anniversary gift and he really didn't care about it. That's because he was in the affair. I still have it, not done and don't know what to do with it.
I lived in Seattle for 18 years. Just moved into the sunshine for the last 1 1/2 years.
Last year was the first time I had ripe tomatoes in a LOOOONG time.
My H and I are already drooling. I have 1/4 acre here in Eastern WA. I live in Walla Walla. The town so nice they named it twice!!!!
One year we had ONE tomato that was getting ripe in Seattle. We we out every day and drooled over it. Then one day we went out and it was gone!! DD had eaten it and said it was delicious!! LOL.
I lived in Seattle for 21 years. It was beautiful, but so much rain. Now I live in San Diego county. I have ripe tomatoes now. Hard to believe - these were volunteers that just came up on their own.
I have lived in Portland, OR, went to college there, then lived in Eastern Oregon, 10 miles from Walla Walla, then back to Portland for 2 years then to Seattle. Now back in Walla Walla, my H was born and raised here.
Back here to help my inlaws, they are elderly, and my whole family has passed away, even my brother, so I am happy to be here to help them in their old age.
I was in Arkansas for 3 months when my father was dying of cancer, I took care of him, and it was an incredible experience.(My mother is from there, and they retired there) Never will I forget the weather, tornado watch is something else. I liked it there, but was glad to get home to the NW.
So, haven't been many places besides the NW. I love it here.
Okay, I AM going now. LOL.
Love in Christ, Miss M <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Mimi, are you out of town? I am thinking about you and missing my 2 x 4's. Hanging around this apt is killing me today. I need to go tan and get some fresh air.
since there is an infidelity ten years after the first, there is every reason to believe that there have been more affairs.
I just read this over on Despairs thread from MEDC.
It has me thinking. My WH cheated on me when I was pregnant with my first child. That's when things got out of control with his drugs. Then when I was pregnant with my 2nd, he went out and slipped us into financial insecurity. Then years later when we moved up here he was found out to have been calling phone sex lines.
The one thing I noticed this time was that he was unavailable most of the time.
Could it be that there have been others, and he just wasn't found out? Does it matter to know?
Queenie, is this information that you have shared previously on this thread, and I just missed it???
This is pretty relevant.
Yes, it COULD mean that there were others. Yes, it DOES matter to know. You need to know the truth about YOUR life and YOUR marriage, so that you can make a wise decision aobut YOUR future.
Queenie, I will send MEDC over here if I have to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You must seriously consider what you will tolerate and what your husband needs to do for an admission ticket back into your life. IMO, his REPEATED cheating means that the admission price needs to be raised. I would REQUIRE a polygraph before I would even crack the door open to him. I would REQUIRE some VERY SPECIFICA extraordinary precautions before I would even consider reconciliation.
If he ever does start talking reconciliation, please keep your emotions in control and put him off. Tell him you would require A LOT before you would consider it. Come here and post to get some clarity and direction.
You need to get your hiney in Plan B and start living like he does not exist.
Queenie, this revelation (to me) leaves me concerned.
Queenie, is this information that you have shared previously on this thread, and I just missed it???
I thought I have mentioned this before.
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You need to know the truth about YOUR life and YOUR marriage, so that you can make a wise decision aobut YOUR future.
I know, and he is the only one who can give me the answers and all he has ever done is played games with me and lied to me.
He has such a destructive streak to him. From the drugs, to the cheating I think just that once, to the slipping, to the phone sex and now this. And yet, he just keeps going throught the world as if he is the victim and stupid me thinks I am the perpetrator.
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Queenie, I will send MEDC over here if I have to.
Actually I wish he would come over and talk to me. I am still so caught up in not KNOWING that the TRUTH is of my life. And that's what is killing me inside, that's why I doubt myself. You know.
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You need to get your hiney in Plan B and start living like he does not exist.
I'm trying my H is very dangerous right now and he could pull the plug on me financially and he knows it. He loves to play cat and mouse with me. He absolutely has no use for me and I can't ever imagine if he wants to come home he would ever consider apologizing. He is to self-righteous and thinks there is nothing wrong with what he did.
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Queenie, this revelation (to me) leaves me concerned.
Queenie, this revelation (to me) leaves me concerned.
About what?
If I had realized that your husband had a history of infidelity/sexual sin, I would NOT have supported Plan A, let alone such a long one.
IMO, repeated infidelity/sexual sin is a lifestyle one chooses or is addicted to. It is NOT a matter of a spouse not having needs met and gradually moving a boundary further and further until they find themselves in an affair.
Queenie, my advice to you at this point is to protect yourself completely....financially (I know you are on this), physically (buy your OWN house with NO imput from him), emotionally (do NOT let him in anymore and do NOT enable his lifestyle of sexual sin), and spiritually (do NOT let him interfere with your relationship with God and your understanding of how precious you are in God's sight).
I would be sure that your Plan B letter makes it clear that just wanting to come home will NOT be enough. There are actions necessary before you will make yourself vulnerable to him again.
It is NOT a matter of a spouse not having needs met and gradually moving a boundary further and further until they find themselves in an affair.
That's what I have been trying to uncover. Did I not meet his emotional needs, I really tried to, I tried learning about them and meeting them. I gave up volunteer work and it didn't make him happy. I made him the head of our household, it didn't make him happy. I gave up all my friends and it did't make him happy. I spent time learning about what was most important to him and when I thought I found it, made them happen it didn't make him happy. The one thing he held over an over me was that I did't get up at 6:00 am on Saturday to go watch him play soccer. His argument was that I did for my boys. I don't know what his needs are because when I tried them it didn't make him happy.
So I pulled back and began to volunteer again. You see what I mean, I don't know what the truth is. That's all I ever wanted, was did I cause this or just this is who he is.
Just out of curiosity, this website preaches about how they are addicted to the OW and relationship, how is that any different than what we have been talking about. Once in the addiction until addressed it keeps getting worse, which is exactly what happened.
My Plan B says he must stop contact with OW, we write the NC letter and he needs to go back to AA. That's all I can ask for. Besides, SMB, he has no use for me, he has a self-entitlement, remember. In fact, he told me that I would NEVER find anyone as good as him.
Actually he doesn't believe that anyone would ever want me because he has NO desire for me. I'm garbage, ugly and fat garbage.
Please keep your .02 coming.
This all doesn't change the fact that I love him with all my heart and promised G-d to be married to him all the days of my life.
His mind games, the witholding of affections, the teasing of me constantly, the picking at me and pushing at my buttons drove my nuts until I didn't know what else to do.
In the end it was because I was fat and he has no desire for me, and that he didn't want to be married to his best friend anymore. SMB, she is fat. He said we didn't live a healthy lifestyle, she has hep C.
I don't know what is or isn't truth and that's why I struggle so much.
I am certain that yesterday's events had an impact on WH. But it's my own feeling that if you truly want to make an impact at this point, you are going to have to move into Plan B swiftly. My reason for this, is your discussion of his past financial problems.
If you want him to crash and crash quickly, his wake up call will come from the consequences of his wreckless financial mismanagement. He won't look all that attractive to OW when his inability to handle his finances become obvious. He may realize how unattractive OW is when she can't help him either. They will be love busting each other like crazy. Finances are one of the top reasons that relationships fall apart (sorry to call the affair a "relationship").
Help him hit his bottom by not being their to prevent it. Hence, Plan B.
I know you have some legal issues to finalize, but get it done quickly and protect yourself.
I truly truly am working it as fast as I can. And you might be right about that. He is a financial mess. I just received a letter in the mail where people are looking for him to pay on his medical and credit card debt.
He really is no rose, but he's mine and I love him. He is self destructive and yet she can live there for free. She is used to living a poor life, she didn't have her own home up until she moved in with my WH.
This is really an ugly sitch. Lucky me.... hanks tst. I need some encouragement that I am doing the right thing.
One thing. I don't know if this makes a difference SMB. I don't believe the time he cheated on me when I was pregnant was more than once and it was with a hooker. That's when things started to unravel for him drug wise.
One thing. I don't know if this makes a difference SMB. I don't believe the time he cheated on me when I was pregnant was more than once and it was with a hooker. That's when things started to unravel for him drug wise.
Well it sounds like you had a little too much fun making the OW cringe. LOL Way to go! Can you imaging the LBing going on between the two of them after the game.
How are things other than that? You sound stronger than last week.
It's very possible that there wasn't ANY LB'ing going on. I have no idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I did MY Plan A. And I did it with class because I am his wife and I can do that. And she will be known as the adulterous. And if my husband lied to these people and said she was his wife, then I have truth on my side and put that to rest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I don't know if it made her cringe at all. Again, it wasn't about them. This was for me. I am not going down without a fight. Though I have to admit, what he did by not saying hi once and kissing her in front of me, was disgusting and did hurt a little bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
But MY HEAD WAS UP, CHEST WAS OUT, SMILE WAS SHINING AND LAUGHTER WAS ON. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I'm trying to keep my head up, TMTS. How are you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Because of my own anger and self-respect issues, I will not be posting on that thread. Was just looking out for you, being loyal, in case there was something that I could assist you with regarding these issues. Just in case there was something you wanted to ask of ME.
I so admire your strength and commitment to yourself and well-being.
I am really working hard at learning how to be self-respectful. Over and over again people tell me how I just need to get angry and get over. And for me, it just doesn't live inside me anymore
I was an angry person in my M and I choose today to not have those feelings inside myself. So yes, if you could help me look at, just because I am not angry about what has happened is not a statement of me not respecting myself.
And what I did at the game this weekend, felt like I was gaining back my self-respect and I want to learn how to cultivate it in a G-dly manner.
Bottom line, you know how much I agree with the importance of maintaining your SELF-RESPECT. But, it is ESSENTIAL that this be done without ANGRY OUTBURSTS and ARGUING.
I think OUTBURSTS and ARGUING are useless..just FIGHTING WITH WORDS..demeaning and disrespectful to all involved...mostly has EVIL intent, IMO...
I believe that the HEALTHY WAY to express ANGER is with CONTROL and PLANNING the BEST and most EFFECTIVE WAY to do so, calmly SPEAKING YOUR TRUTH in a way that you are HEARD.
I believe that the HEALTHY WAY to express ANGER is with CONTROL and PLANNING the BEST and most EFFECTIVE WAY to do so, calmly SPEAKING YOUR TRUTH in a way that you are HEARD.
We are so in agreement on this. I don't like anger. I lived with it for so long and I don't want it to exist in my life AT ALL.
Through this whole ugly ordeal I haven't gotten angry. The night I found out I screamed and cried, but even that was not usual for me. I think what I thought that thread was saying is by me not getting angry over this I am disrespecting myself. That's what I need to look at.
Here's what I did Saturday at the field.
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I have been a very busy GODDESS today. VERY BUSY. I got up, went for about a 3 mile walk in the sun around the lake, then went to the library, picked out a few books and then went to the tanning booth. Sometime during my walk I gathered up enough strength and decided to go to WH's lacrosse game.
OH YES, CHEST OUT, HEAD UP AND SMILE SHINING, I walked right down onto that field with OW there. I immediately started talking to people and introducing myself as WH's wife. I got asked to keep score. At one point I needed to leave the field and get a pen. I know she was hoping that I was leaving for good. NOT.....
I walked back down and invaded her space and blocked her out. I talked to the players, one of them particularly from the high school team. I talked to the mgrs wife introduced myself as WH's wife and that he was having an affair with a crack addict with hep C. I loved him and was fighting for him to come home. I told her that I was here to support my husband and that I wasn't going to cause any trouble.
Then she said, you've changed. I asked her if we had met before she said yes and then she said my hair was shorter and a different color. I laughted and said that was the other woman she had met. LOL. I chatted with the refs... they know me as his wife..and the lacrosse mom for Maple Valley.
I walked up and down the side lines, cheering for my honey, very sweetly and supportive. She didn't say one word. She walked over to the ladies at one point and stood by them and they pretty much ignored her. I don't know if they were doing it on purpose or not.
And then at half time, I went and got near where she was, pushing her away from those ladies and just started talking.
My WH, ran by me and barely said hi, in fact I don't think he did at all. He completely ignored me pretty much the whole time and would walk over to her throughout the game and give her a peck kiss. Actually not a very loving kisses, but that's my interpretation.
I can only imagine what OW was thinking. I looked FABULOUS, tan, getting skinny and strutting my strength and territory, all the while completely ignoring her. The weirdest thing is she kept picking at her nails. Constantly. Don't know what that was about.
She was pretty quiet throughout the game, stood really close to WH. At one point he got sandwiched pretty bad and she walked over there. So did I, but I calmy stayed away and just my presence was enough. I hope he knew I was there.
I felt empowered. She has no idea when I am going to turn up next and when I do, I walk right in like I belong, which I do. Right after the game, I handed off the scoring information and walked away. As I got almost to the end of the field I looked back and there she was staring at me. I turned and smiled, walked up the ramp and held my hands up in success.
I have NO clue whether he is pissed at me or not. I have no idea what home is like for them tonight. But I do know, that she wasn't smiling too much while I was there. Oh, I did notice she is wearing a ring on her wedding finger. I wanted to puke. But of course, I was showing off my BIGGER diamonds in the sunlight and turned to face her a couple of times so she could see that I wear my H wedding ring on my neck. My very tan neck.
So, how did I do? I don't have much Plan Aing time left, so I really wanted to take this opportunity. I just needed to do it for me. I left with the wifes knowing that my H is going through a mid life crisis, I even asked one if she thought he would come out of it. I told her we weren't even legally separated. I just had to do it. I might have lost him forever, but I was going down with a fight, the only way I know how. With my grace, love and support for my H in my heart.
Oh I do have to cop and say that when it was over, I turned to the one wife and said, well I have had enough of being around the slut for one afternoon. I know that was wrong, but I did it lovingly and jokingly.
What do you think being REALLY ANGRY should be like..OUT OF CONTROL????
Yes, if I am really angry then in the past I screamed and yelled, not very g-dly like at all.
I'm hurt and devastated, I'm frustrated that he won't come home and give me a chance, but I had a part in this and I can't be angry at him. What could would it do.
When have I shown anger. Maybe I need to see an example to learn to build on what is ok and what isn't.
I am fighting for my M and claiming my rightful place as his wife. If nothing else, I went down fighting with self-respect.
Isn't ANGER at the root of a FIGHT?
I can't see how he cannot have the UTMOST RESPECT for you.
It mattered to MY HUSBAND..I don't know if it's true for your husband.
Even this weekend, I noticed that it was so important to him for me to gain my SELF-CONTROL...CONTROL of MY FEELINGS. Back in the day, I used to wilt and become a basket case about things. He must have found that to be unattractive.
You're talking about RAGE..that's ANGER out of control.
YOU ARE DEFINITELY ANGRY and have expressed YOUR ANGER and continue to EXPRESS YOUR ANGER. You have now learned to do it in a healthy fashion. It goes like this inside yur head: "I am angry about this so I am going to do such and such to not be DEMEANED by this affair and to MAINTAIN my SELF-RESPECT"..or something like that...
If you WERE NOT angry, I think you would let him TRAMPLE all over you like you did in the past...
No, not always. In Israel sometimes it's just standing up for yourself and what is right. That's what my motive was. I am standing up for myself and showing WH, OW and everyone else, I am his wife, I am proud to be his wife and I will stand for my M.
If anything I am angry at myself for becoming this ugly person inside.
Have you ever seen the movie Mommie Dearest. If so, do you remember the wire hanger scene? That was my mother EVERYDAY of my life.
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So what makes you so sure that you are ANGRY at yourself and NOT HIM?
You are GOOD. I love you so much. Because if I stay angry with me then I can fool my mind into thinking that I had control over this and could have prevented what happened. But that's a LIE, I had not CONTROL over him EVER, and he chose to do this. So I can be angry at his choices, just not express it in rage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Why are you saying you are an UGLY person inside?
Because the rage lived inside and that was ugly. I made so many mistakes and that's painful to realize and accept. It would be so much easier to know that even if I hadn't made all those mistakes it wouldn't have stopped what is happening now.
Aren't we great? I mean, how hard can it be to do a butterfly? I even have butterfly fabric.
But please stop beating yourself up. Would you LIKE to take out your sewing machine and quilt a block? Then find 15 minutes. But if it doesn't nourish your soul to do it, don't do it!
I used to LOVE quilting, but my H complained that it took time away from him. Everything I did took time away from him, and yet he was having an A and wasn't really with me even when I concentrated on him.
I'm more scared to do it, than a question of not wanting to.
I used to love to quilt. It brought me enjoyment because I was creating something beautiful and was made with love.
It's just stuff and the one thing I truly loved the most is gone and I am afraid I will get mad at my stupidity. Of taking classes when I should have been at home with my H.
Now that I have thought of. I signed up for classes when I got my new camera. I'll give them a call.
I still would like to study Hebrew, but that would keep me isolated at home.
Oh, you can bet if WH ever comes home. the camera is absolutely history. Her hands were all over it taking pictures. I so wanted to grab it out of her hands and smack her with it.
WITHDRAWAL starts all over again each time you see him..so you got another 3 to 6 months to go..THE PAIN is GREATEST just after EACH CONTACT...
LUCKY ME....
How can G-d know I am strong enough to survive this.
Did you ever go through those days where you feel like it's not fair or right or whatever that you put your life on hold for something that may or may not change.
I have never really thought this, but would it be better if I just gave up, gave him his divorce and moved on? How do I know that I am not just wasting my life and missing out on all the good that G-d has to offer?
Did you ever feel this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I'm going to come all the way to WA and SHAKE YOU!!
TRUST and FAITH in the LORD...LET HIM GO...Put him in God's hands...
Have FAITH that GOD will work this out for you...
Queenie, STOP IT!! You know better...
Yes, I certainly had my days..but you've got to get BACK UP ON THE HORSE..don't let doubt creep in...
I just called my H and said: "A DOG CAN'T HOLD BACK A GODDESS" ( I was soo anxious yesterday)...Join me in saying that..with the the affair/the OW being YOUR DOG...
It's G-d SMB... Plain and simple. I love life SMB and I want to live life. I want to experience all that is good in life, I truly hope it's with my H.
But he has NO DESIRE for me and he has no trouble telling me that at all. It's like I am no longer a woman, just an object or trash. Anyways, his loss. As I lose weight and gain confidence, the world is opening up and I want that to include someone who WANTS me. Do you think that can happen?
Queenie, I am doing the happy dance for you. You have made my day, girl!
And YES! I certainly DO BELIEVE that one day you WILL find someone who appreciates, values, and loves you...who knows, maybe it'll even be WH. There are many right now who probably find your new strength quite attractive. You DO have A LOT to offer. Hold you head high, but keep your heart protected. (remember where I went right before the awesome miracle...we don't want you going THERE!)
I AM so proud of you!
I did get your email. But I have been totally lazy as I try to recover from this flu/strep or whatever! I get zoned out over here on MB sometimes and can't seem to leave.
Hold you head high, but keep your heart protected. (remember where I went right before the awesome miracle...we don't want you going THERE!)
No we don't want to go there, but I also do recognize I am extremely vulnerable and it DOES feel good to have men pay attention to me.
I just need to keep placing my life in G-d's hands everyday and let him reveal his plan to me as time goes on.
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I AM so proud of you!
thank you, that means a lot. And it helps me to keep moving on.
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I did get your email. But I have been totally lazy as I try to recover from this flu/strep or whatever! I get zoned out over here on MB sometimes and can't seem to leave.
Take care of yourself. We have kids dropping and throwing up like flies. UGH...
Well true to his selfless, giving nature, WH has emailed me for use of the fields for his lacrosse team to run scrimages. he can't even say ask me to do him a favor. Why didn't he just give the team leader my email and let him contact me, why did he need to do that?
He NEVER asks how the kids are? Is there anything I can do to help you with them, blah blah. Just about him. He doesn't even get mad at me for showing up at his game like I did. I wonder if it mattered at all.
How does someone just stop being a human being with a heart and involved family man. Is there any hope? I'm sorry, it's not that I am down, I'm sad for the loss. Why does he contact me at all? He has no use for me as a person or his wife? Oh wait a minute, maybe this will be helpful for me in Plan B, because it does seem that he will intiate contact with me when I don't. I just realized that. I remember in October when I thought I was doing a modified Plan B, wasn't talking to him he would look me up online to say hi. Or every so often I get an email telling me he wants something from me. Is that useful at all to think that he contacts me to stay connected or am I just being hopeful for nothing.
My boys lacrosse season just began and I have been at the fields Mon and Wed because I decided that's more important to me than sitting at home waiting for them to come home. I know I will look back on this and realize that I truly stepped up to be the EVERYTHING parent. That's been the hardest thing... My H and I shared child rearing in everyway. Now, NOTHING.
On the way home, my boys and I were talking about upcoming projects and I offered to help them. They took me up on it. I will have to admit, that's one of the things I most regret is not being more involved in their homework. I never understood it and so stayed away and just made sure they completed it. I can't make up for the past, but I certainly can create memories for them now and I plan on taking advantage of that.
Ok, I think I am done feeling sorry for myself, but I don't understand why he needs to contact me. May I ask you to help me work through how best to respond on this. Plan B is really just around the corner and I don't want to put myself in the position of getting the field and then canceling out, because I will need to be at the field while they are there.
I haven't posted a lot lately but I have kept up with your sitch on and off the last few weeks. TBH things are so busy around here I really only have the odd moment at work to read and catch up with people, and haven't even been posting to my own thread much anymore.
What I see in this post today from you though is something I still struggle with.. and that is letting go. We've both been fighting with ourselves to let go, and I see you worrying yourself a lot with what he does. In the end, what he does isn't influenced anymore with what you want him to do.. that's something we both need to come to grips with. It's still holding expectations of him.. and we've got to let those go too.
I'm right there with you Queenie.. you've got my admiration, prayers, and support. I truly pray that Plan B will be a blessed respite for this drama for you.. and sometimes envy you for having it as an option.
Keep your head up, chest out.. and be the WARRIOR GODDESS we all know, love, and look up to.
"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." 2 Peter 1:3-4
What I see in this post today from you though is something I still struggle with.. and that is letting go. We've both been fighting with ourselves to let go, and I see you worrying yourself a lot with what he does. In the end, what he does isn't influenced anymore with what you want him to do.. that's something we both need to come to grips with. It's still holding expectations of him.. and we've got to let those go too.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this.
I really feel like I have let him go, I don't think about him NEARLY as much as I did and I don't have the need to talk to him or contact him.
It's when he contacts me in his selfish way that jerks me. If you can help me understand better then I would love to learn and let it go.
I think you need to be a bit more blunt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
In my mind, he has no use for me or the kids. We aren't a part of his life now. He loves her, wants to be with her and we are just whatever. And yet, he still sends me an email when he wants something. Why doesn't he just leave me completely alone? Is he trying to control me?
It's when he contacts me in his selfish way that jerks me
And this is why you need to be in Plan B.
So you don't have to deal with him for a while... So you don't have to be jerked around every time you are about to get your life in order... So you don't have to live in crisis mode for the rest of your life... So you can heal without having him reopen the wounds over and over again...
He wants to live with her, have sex with her and spend the night with her. But he wants you to do all those things he can't do for himself and she doesn't seem to be able to do for him...all of those little things a wife does to make her husband the man he is...Domestic Support...When you pull the plug on those things you still do for him, he will have no one to do them for him. He will either have to do them for himself or he will have to do without....
Yes, I want Plan B to come. I really do. I didn't think I would be at this point of really wanting it, but you are right, when he isn't in my daily thoughts, my life is nice and calm. I am able to think of myself as something better than crap and that maybe I deserve a little happiness and a life that has love in it.
Maybe this is the devil testing me to see if all the work G-d has done in me to build me up as a person can't be destroyed by one silly email from WH.
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He wants to live with her, have sex with her and spend the night with her. But he wants you to do all those things he can't do for himself and she doesn't seem to be able to do for him...all of those little things a wife does to make her husband the man he is...Domestic Support...When you pull the plug on those things you still do for him, he will have no one to do them for him. He will either have to do them for himself or he will have to do without....
Is this cake eating or just plain selfishness on his part and he doesn't realize what he is doing?
It's funny Mark, everytime I do make strides in moving on with my life, something happens, WH calls me, emails me, or whatever and the wound just gets ripped open. Am I doing something to allow it to happen or that's just part of Plan A, and I can take advantage of the opportunity or not.
Or since Plan B is so close, just not even respond and let him figure something else out?
You have just proved the premise that a WS can never have any contact for any reason with their former lover for the rest of their lives...
You are about to get your life under control and WH calls you. Within minutes you miss him, doubt what you are doing and long for the return to the good old days...
Then after a few days, you are feeling better about yourself and moving forward with your life...and then he emails you and you are back into the depths of hopelessness....
I do hope every WS who comes here can see this so that they understand just how important NC is with their former AP...
You need to have everything you need to do to go into Plan B done and wrapped up with a bow soon, because one of these days you must be able to tell him when he calls you with his crisis..."I'm not your Mommy. If you want to be my husband, we can talk about it, but if CrackHo can't do this for you, you'll have to take care of it yourself..."
This is ultimate cake eating here Queenie. He wants you to be his wife, but he wants her to be his lover...He gets the part of you she does not have...Stability, compassion, caring, love for his children...Then he gets to retreat to her because you are taking care of everything and that frees him up from having to grow up and be responsible. He can forget the kids, forget the house, forget everything but his own selfishness.
CrackHo feeds that selfishness. You feed his soul...
He thinks he wants to live without you. Let him try. He has already shown you that he can't. Once you go into Plan B, it must be very dark. Only speak to him if one of the children has an emergency that you can't handle alone.
Things between DW and I are better than they have been in 10 years. I also notice it with our relationship with our DDs.
We do have a memorial today. DW's uncle past away on Saturday after fighting with cancer. He was surrounded by his family and in a great deal of pain, so once he saw that we would all be ok, he let go.
What he is doing is pretty much the same as my DW was doing, and it's amazing how fast the turn around can be. I got lucky because there was very little contact, he did many LBs by disappointing her constantly and he was two timing her, so the withdrawal symptoms were fairly mild. Right now she is dealing more with the guilt of the whole episode more than anything else.
Mark explains it very well and Mimi has seen it first hand. Trust their judgment. You will be fine.
Queenie, what IS the hold up on your Plan B? I thought I remembered you saying that the papers are being filed and that WH would be served. Has that happened?
See, when you get into Plan B, scenarios like this won't be an issue anymore. Emails from WH, phone calls from WH, other contacts, he'll be hitting a brick wall via your intermediary, and unless it's something URGENT regarding the kids, you'll never know. Peace. That's what Plan B will bring you.
Love ya Queenie but I wonder if you're stalling on the Plan B hoping that SOMETHING will change. It won't. Remember almost NO marriages recover based on Plan A alone. Your marriage may not even recover with Plan B, but what will change is that Queenie will learn to love herself even more and live without WH in PEACE.
Love ya Queenie but I wonder if you're stalling on the Plan B hoping that SOMETHING will change.
I didn't think I was, but I might be. I really don't understand what the hold up is. My L told me he would call me when the paper were ready to be served. I'll give him a all today.
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You have just proved the premise that a WS can never have any contact for any reason with their former lover for the rest of their lives...
You are about to get your life under control and WH calls you. Within minutes you miss him, doubt what you are doing and long for the return to the good old days...
Then after a few days, you are feeling better about yourself and moving forward with your life...and then he emails you and you are back into the depths of hopelessness....
I do hope every WS who comes here can see this so that they understand just how important NC is with their former AP...
I can be grateful to be of service to G-d. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[/quote] Your marriage may not even recover with Plan B, but what will change is that Queenie will learn to love herself even more and live without WH in PEACE. [/quote] A few months ago, I couldn't imagine this even possible. I do today and I'm grateful for that.
In a weird way, this has been good for me because if ever there was a doubt that my mind and heart aren't in sync, got resolved. I am READY for Plan B, I just understand that it truly could be for the rest of my life that I never talk to the man that I love with all my heart. And that's sad for me.
So, thanks PM and Mark for keeping me on the straight of what needs to be done for me.
TMTS, I'm glad things are going so well. I'm jealous as all get out, but I am so happy for you.
I learned that the positive changes I was making were leaving an impression on her even though I wasn't seeing it at the time.
Then how should I handle his request.
I would love to get the field for him, but the reality is I will be in Plan B by then and unable to fulfill my responsibility by being on the field and responsible.
Does he have any other options to get a field? Is there someone else at the school that he or someone else go to? If you tell him straight out that you will not do this for him anymore, can he turn it around on you? Make you look bad in front of your peers? (Vets, could Queenie supping the field be construed as enablement?)
The thing that bugs me about not doing it is that it could be showing him your hand before your ready to lay down your cards.
The more experienced will chime in on this one, lets see what they think about this.
He's just trying to use you, Queenie and you know it. IMO, it is ENABLEMENT. He's willing to invest time in his RECREATION and using YOU for that but won't even invest time to spend with his children.
I would figure out some NICE, LEGITIMATE way to SAY NO..."Everyone knows that we are separated and you left me so it wouldn't be appropriate or acceptable for me to use a MARITAL PRIVILEGE or whatever"....
He's just trying to use you, Queenie and you know it. IMO, it is ENABLEMENT. He's willing to invest time in his RECREATION and using YOU for that but won't even invest time to spend with his children.
Pretty disgusting isn't it.
Yes, I know he is trying to use me I just wanted to make sure that even though I haven't gone into Plan B, I don't need to help him on out on this one.
Ok, no it is and in a nice, legitimate way. I need to be careful not to make him mad, but I'll think of something.
Thanks.
Something good just happened. A parent came in and ask me about my weight loss. She said her husband came home commenting on how much weight I have lost. She said, why didn't you tell her. My comment was, he did the right thing by mentioning it to you and you telling me. I know she thought that was a weird answer. But after going threw this, I think that is a better way to do it.
YOU can DO what YOU want with your life...go wherever you want to go..IT'S YOUR WORLD, HE ONLY LIVES IN IT..as an ALIEN, that is..LOL...YOU ARE THE QUEEN, yanno..
YOU can DO what YOU want with your life...go wherever you want to go..IT'S YOUR WORLD, HE ONLY LIVES IN IT..as an ALIEN, that is..LOL...YOU ARE THE QUEEN, yanno..
Mark is soooo right. He's coming to you for the wifey things. That is such a good point. I see it in my own sitch - WH had to get an atty to force me to take care of tax stuff because he didn't have a clue as to what he needed to do. lol
I guess I'm wondering why do I need to warn him of the LSA and not just give him the PBL and completely surprise him with the legal stuff?
Excellent Queenie! I'm so proud of you for following up on this.
You don't warn him. Just give him the letter. Let the attorney and the process server worry about getting him served. From here on out, your attorney handles anything legally related.
If you've got everything situated (intermediary, finances, etc.) then there's no reason not to give him the letter now. Just look at it as a one-two punch. First the Plan B letter and you going dark, dark, dark, and then he gets served with the LS.
You know, I was actually thinking the same thing about the field. Thank you G-d for that.
Here is the Plan B letter one more time, please tell me to make any changes if you think.
My dearest WH,
I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want those intimacies that we always dreamed about, to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, as well as share the joy of raising a family with you. Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated our vows under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together not matter what adversity we had faced. You and I together faced whatever came our way together and succeeded because we are meant to be together as husband and wife.
I’ve worked particularly hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
G-d has instilled in me that we can have a brand new, loving, and completely fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and commitment we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that became the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our children’s. To have a new incredible marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams is within our reach. The kind of marriage we both committed to when we said “I do” each time. I’m not naive; I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from learning about your relationship with OW, dealing with our marriage falling apart and your decision to leave our home. I never once stopped loving you and I have not forgotten what a wonderful man you are. I know you better than anyone else, and I believe in you completely. It is my love and faith in G-d that has given me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.
In order to PRESERVE the LOVE that I have left for you, I've come to the decision to no longer have any contact with you at all UNTIL you end your relationship with OW and give us another chance. I will not talk to you or see you. Contact AB at or email him at in order to reach me for emergencies ONLY. I believe that we can work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.
Remember the day that we were in class together and you worked with me to bring down all my walls and you realized how much I truly loved you and had for our whole life. Tap into that my darling, because not only did it always exist, but continues to grow even during this difficult time.
Ok, one other question, are you sure it's best to give him the letter first and then the LSA or the LSA be served first and then given the letter?
And the reason to give him the PBL first is? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Thank you PM. I hope he at least reads it, instead of throwing it away.
No word from the lawyer on what day they want to serve him.
I'm at peace today. I find myself wanting it to just be over and me getting on with my life and seeing what is out there for me.
But I won't and I can't, because I have to complete this in G-ds eyes and wait for his blessings. It's hard though because I am lonely and would like to feel a little attention.
Looks like you ARE getting some attention...LOL...just not the way you REALLY want it...God always gives us what we need! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I didn't think that you did...I felt the same way...some days were lonely...just plain and simply...I, too, had to be reminded that I was not alone and I was loved and cherished!
it's gets better, truely it does and I think that you are doing a wonderful job! pat yourself on the back, your growth has been amazing!
Did you see you have mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We really need to talk. I have SO MANY questions.
You're growth is amazing and inspiring especially understanding the hurts and depths of games that were played with you.
[quote] I, too, had to be reminded that I was not alone and I was loved and cherished! {/quote] Yes, I could use the reminders. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I get lost in the stinkin thinkin and need a board to get me out of it.
LOL...yes, I saw it, I was giving you time to think...I am sometimes a slow processor...need to dwell on it to get it straight in my head sometimes...
I think that as Human Being, it is natural to focus on the negative and that it really is hard to focus on the positive until you get the hang of it...
Boards are good...SOMETIMES...LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
yep, that stinkin, thinkin will get you everytime!
Ok, I need to vent just a bit. I think the anger is kicking in a little.
I'm angry because this was WH's last day at work and I don't get to share this with him. I was there when he went to school, got this job and I am being cheated of sharing this time in his life.
I hope he had a good last day. It makes me so sad all the time that is going by and we aren't sharing our life anymore. I know he is in G-ds hands and there is NOTHING I can do for him.
you have mail...I know that it's difficult but you have to focus on YOU, not him!!! it's sad that you are suffering the consequences of his actions too...but no dwelling, k?
Be MAD, write him a letter, cuss him out, then teat it up or burn it and let the feeling go with it...you can use this as many times as you need too in your journey!
I know it hurts sweetie. This is something that will hurt for a long time. The range of emotions is what makes this such a rollercoaster ride, and it just plain sucks.
I just read the post on boundaries and it made so much sense. Sometimes you just have to remove yourself from the situation and it seems like time for you to do that. It will still hurt, but at least you can look at it as a start for your new life.
I love you Queenie, and so does everyone else here. We are here for you.....
1. My friendships with you and a few others have been deepening today. 2. I was pretty productive at work and that hasn't happened for awhile. And I LOVE MY JOB. 3. I faced my sons about something without getting mad and explained my feelings to them. I cried because it was scary to do, but I did it with respect in my heart. 4. I am getting to talk to G-d and know that he has plans for me. 5. I didnt beat myself up for gaining a few pounds.. I just know it part of the process. I can do the work, but G-d will supply the results.
How's that?
Hi Chai,
I miss you. Hopefully we connect over the weekedn on the phone. How are you? Is there anything I can do for you?
Give him the letter first, Queenie, the LSA will arrive soon after. Do not tell him about it.
I know this is hard, we can all see the love that you still have for your WS, but this is absolutely the healthiest thing you can do to preserve your love.
It will get better, I promise. We will be here for you.
Give him the letter first, Queenie, the LSA will arrive soon after. Do not tell him about it.
Why Miss M.
Well he left work and went to see DD to say goodbye. He acted like he never called her and called her a thief. How can he be like that. He said he would call with the new number, he was giving me back my cell phone and wanting me to get it transferred into my name.
I know it shouldn't surprise me, but it just HURTS. It's ripping me up inside, just ripping me up. I'm sorry, I am so trying to be brave and strong.
I need to go pray and be with G-d. I need some comfort, I can do this anymore. I can't wait to give him the letter and get him out of my life. How can he be so cruel. How can he so flippantly use me on the one hand and toss me away on the next.
I don't believe that the mistakes I made deserved this kind of punishment and so I am getting on my knees and praying like I have never before asking G-d to help me. Just help me live one more day.
I love you all so much and thank you so much for your help and support. I'm really doing the best I can.
Hi Queenie, kinda like days of old, just me and you while everybody else sleeps. at least for me now it's due to too much coffee.
What's this deal with WH calling DD a theif?
Hey, you are doing better than the best you can! You are the WARRIOR QUEEN!! and don't forget that.
YOu will never be alone as long as you check in with us. I know it's not the same but know how many people here truly love you for who you are... me included.
Yeah kinda, except you are happy and recovering your M.
I actually took some sleeping pills to try and rest, but that wasn't my greatest idea. They make me dream and all i dreamed of was WH walking out on me and the drama of his new life and yet he won't come home.
Tuesday of last week my DD was very hurt that WH had not come and told her that he was quit his job. She was so hurt and angry she went into his office and took all the pictures of her as a little girl. WH called her up and screamed at her that she stole his pictures and something about some Home Depot pictures. I think those Home Depot pictures must have been pictures that OW bought him.
In any event, I guess he just went off on her and she just hung up on her. They hadn't spoken since that day and he just walked in the office and told her goodbye, pretty much like everyone else, hugged her and said he would call her with his new number. Then he told her that he was giving me back the cell phone and he wanted me to get it changed into my name. Just one more step of him breaking away and it hurts, I wasn't prepared for that.
No, I am not doing good. I am just surviving. I am praying to G-d and seeking the lessons that I need to learn and praying for the willingness to stop loving him and just get him out of my life. But he is a part of my heart and I love him so much.
I asked G-d to teach me how to love him above all others if I wasn't, because I didn't know what I was doing wrong. I don't want to idolize anyone, I just want to be at peace and serve G-d. But there is a missing link and I am praying for the clarity for G-d vision for me.
There are so many others on here who deserve that name. I just am one desparate woman trying to pick up her life after her WH threw her away.
I know G-d has plans for me. I know that he knows the beginning and the end. I know I get my feelings WAY too hurt and I forget this is just simply a monster who has realy no use for me or his children.
What I can't comprehend is how he just doesn't give a rip for the hurt and damage he is causing and the way he just expects me to do all the work to untangle this marriage while he lives in happyville.
In a weird way, it seems that as hard as I want my M, all my actions have been to get away from him. I found the deal for the house and we moved faster than i would have liked, I am the one who got the two lawsuits off our case by finding the money to pay for them. WH and never once thenked me for anything, just take and threw scraps at me.
As you can tell, it's early, I am still groggy and my stinkin thinkin is rearing it's horrid head. I think I will try and head back to bed and not have too many nightmares.
TMTS, get to sleep. Your lovely wife needs you next to her.
Look at the things you list above in terms of what you have ACCOMPLISED! You have to stop thinking of them in terms of WH.
He's WH. Not H. He's not going to thank you for anything,,,,,even if he "should". You and WH can be given a test to give the names of animals on a card. Let's say the card shows a red bird. You and the rest of the 'normal' word say "Red Bird". WH will say respond with anything but those words.
So, knowing that is going to be the kind of response you will hear from him what are your choices? You can keep asking yourself, "What is WRONG with him" You can keep trying to convince him that the RIGHT answer is Red Bird. Or you can accept that neither of those things is getting YOU anywhere good in life and let WH get the answer wrong and you let it go. The consequences of that 'wrong' answer WILL come upon him someday.
Let it happen in God's way in God's time. AND while that is unfolding, keep your eye on what He CAN and Will do in YOUR life. Allow yourself to have the peace that he wants to give you.
What you said really helps me to keep a visual so to speak. I guess I wanted him to validate that what he is doing is stupid and wrong, and that's not going to happen today. He thinks what he thinks, which doesn't make it right, it's just what he thinks.
I have allowed him to control and influence my thinking of situations that I am having a hard time believing that what I am thinking or saying is the truth. This is what I have drudged with my whole life and something that I need to work through because of it.
I have to learn to live without anyone validation but G-ds and mine. I've never had an internal boundary that has established that or allowed it to be a possibility.
So thank you. I hope that how you used the red bird will always be a reminder to me and help me to just let it go.
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Let it happen in God's way in God's time. AND while that is unfolding, keep your eye on what He CAN and Will do in YOUR life. Allow yourself to have the peace that he wants to give you.
I am really praying for this to just be. Thankfully G-d is patient and knows I am working hard at just letting it go and gaining the peace and serenity that everyone is talking about.
I realized this morning during my mediation that I am trying to create the "best" situation to give the PBL. The one where he can't mess with me financially, and that's still controlling stuff. I'm stalling for sure. I now am praying for the courage to just suck it up and give it away. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I finally had two minutes to rub together and thought I'd check up on you. Believe it or not, you are doing great. Things like this will blindside you-but just because you feel wounded doesn't mean you aren't standing strong.
And God understands. He is there to listen to whatever you need to unload on Him. He can handle it. That's why I think the Psalms are in the Bible. David was called "a man after God's own heart" and he had no trouble pouring out his complaints, his fears, his longings, and his praise.
Ps 142:1-3a I cry aloud to the Lord, I lift up my voice to the Lord for mercy. I pour out my complaint before Him, Before Him I tell my trouble.
When my spirit grows faint within me, it is you who know my way.
Hang in there my dear. I hope we can get together again soon. But after I'm finished with my project for my class at Western. I can't believe how busy I have been with work, YS, and my classes. Don't worry though-even when I'm not posting, I try to read now and then, and you are definitely in my prayers!
Love ya <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He thinks what he thinks, which doesn't make it right, it's just what he thinks.
Queenie, he's AN ADDICT! You know how it is as AN ADDICT! CLEAR THINKING does not occur. Why are you holding on to the notion of him being a NORMAL FUNCTIONING human being?
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I have allowed him to control and influence my thinking of situations that I am having a hard time believing that what I am thinking or saying is the truth.
Basically, YOU CONTINUE to have a hard time letting go of HIM, I think. YOU WILL HAVE TO DEPEND TOTALLY ON YOURSELF. Is that what's SCARY? It doesn't matter AT ALL what he thinks, Queenie. What matters is what YOU THINK about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. What matters is YOU.
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I have to learn to live without anyone validation but G-ds and mine. I've never had an internal boundary that has established that or allowed it to be a possibility.
But YOU have YOURSELF, NOW, Queenie!! Why do you begin to DOUBT yourself? Your PERSONAL POWER is AWESOME!! There is a GIANT that has been AWAKENED INSIDE OF YOU!!
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I realized this morning during my mediation that I am trying to create the "best" situation to give the PBL.
JUST DO IT!! Is he on the fields TODAY? At the end of his games would be PERFECT..walk right up to him QUEENIE and put it in his HAND!!
Queenie, he's AN ADDICT! You know how it is as AN ADDICT! CLEAR THINKING does not occur. Why are you holding on to the notion of him being a NORMAL FUNCTIONING human being?
You got me. I am still trying to make sense of my part in the marriage so that I will not make the same mistakesin my next relationship with whoever it is.
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Basically, YOU CONTINUE to have a hard time letting go of HIM, I think. YOU WILL HAVE TO DEPEND TOTALLY ON YOURSELF. Is that what's SCARY? It doesn't matter AT ALL what he thinks, Queenie. What matters is what YOU THINK about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. What matters is YOU.
You are so RIGHT. But I had questions lingering in my head and I got them answered last night. I am at peace letting him go, knowing it could be for the rest of my life. I didn't think I could get to this point, but I am. Between what Bugsy said yesterday and my meeting last night with former MC's I have clarity about stuff that I wasn't seeing or wasn't ready to see.
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But YOU have YOURSELF, NOW, Queenie!! Why do you begin to DOUBT yourself? Your PERSONAL POWER is AWESOME!! There is a GIANT that has been AWAKENED INSIDE OF YOU!!
You are so right. Do you know the book awakening the giant. Do you think it's worth reading for me?
I am going to just do it. I just haven't had the chance because honestly I have been out being mom, goddess and taking care of myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I experience a true sense of happiness for most of the day yesterday. I got to play mommy goddess for the morning, went to my friends house and got pampered into a new hair style, and then went to a business meeting where I got to listen to my favorite couple and I realized that i have the ability to create money and not have to rely on the WH for anything. I just have to learn some stuff that i am afraid to do.
And then I went out to dinner with my MC and we had a FABULOUS talk on my M. Not because it will change or fix anything, but help me to understand what is going on in my head. The one thing I learned was that my boundary is almost on my person, and by the time my boundary was violated by H there was no safety net for me and I would explode.
So, it gives me a starting point for learning to set boundaries. Very useful information to me.
Mimi, I am letting him go more and more each day, but specifically today. I can see the difference of when i do and when I don't. It still makes me sad, and fearful, but I understand it's just the way it is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I had it at my old house, but I don't remember if I still do. I think I am going to look for it.
Goodness I have SO MANY books to read. That will certainly take up my time, not to mention building my business.
This morning I went to a success brunch of losing weight and had a really nice time. Now I am on a conference call for my business and then I am going to go shopping for my kids, grocery shopping, go to tanning place and then finish with AA.
I need to work on the domestic goddess person in me. That is seriously lacking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Something weird is shifting in me. I'm not afraid, I'm just just. I feel like I need to give G-d the glory for this and thank him for his faith in me because he knew that one day I would be able to survive this.
And be a better person because of it. I'm not at the end, I just think I see the star of the light..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Something weird is shifting in me. I'm not afraid, I'm just just. I feel like I need to give G-d the glory for this and thank him for his faith in me because he knew that one day I would be able to survive this.
And be a better person because of it. I'm not at the end, I just think I see the star of the light..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
That's your STRENGTH and FAITH in G-d rising up in you. I see it in your writing (especially to others). You WILL survive this. I have NO doubt.
Nor me. It might not be the plan I want, but I just have faith in G-d that it will be a plan that will bring me joy and happiness as long as I walk in his will.
Plan B letter delivered Wednesday or Friday. I'm thinking it's going to be a birthday present to myself. It will also protect me for one more week of his auto deposits.
Queenie whens your birthday?Are you also a Piscean? I think once we get through this awful time in our lives we will be able to face ANYTHING cos we will be STRONG women!!
Do you think WW's are still in the fog and addicted this far down the road? Queenie I'm thinking of you, don't give up.I watched a tv show about a stuntman and he had DON'T GIVE UP tattoed down one arm in big letters and DON'T GIVE IN on the other arm..
Slightly off topic but do you remember me mentioning my friend Tory? She was on the Today Show inducted into the Joy Fit Club. You can check it out here.
Queenie whens your birthday? Are you also a Piscean?
Friday and yes I am. When is your birthday?
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Do you think WW's are still in the fog and addicted this far down the road?
As Mimi reminds me, they are sick and ADDICTS and can't think or don't think. I have NO clue what goes on inside his head, I just know I don't want to be a part of the disease and insanity of him.
Oh Hope, I love my H with all my heart, I don't think I could ever give up. But I have to accept that G-d might have another plan that doesn't include my H anymore. I am learning to live my life for G-d only and let him define who I am to become.
I can only leave WH with G-d and get the heck out of dodge. I don't want to hurt anymore inside. I want to build back my life and honor G-d by serving him every way he has designed for me. Trust me, the hurt is still so there, but lessoning each day.
Hi JT,
I will check out the link from work tomorrow. I love you and can't wait to see you soon.
The only news I have to report is the server and I talked about getting her the address to serve the papers. I toyed with putting the PBL with it. What do you think?
WH emailed me telling me he really needs to know about the field so he can reschedule a scrimmage, oh and that he had a great first day. I'm ok. My space is good, I can see his email for sickness and leave it at that. It still hurts, I still cry inside to myself, but he is in the safest place possible with G-d. There is nothing more I can do for him, but move on with my own life and live it to the very best I can.
I have worked so hard to get to this place a peace and I don't for one second take it for granted or forget who it comes from. But you all helped me and were there when I didn't want to be.
It's so weird, I could really go to the place of questioning why he contacted me today... blah..blah.. It doesn't matter because he is an addicted, who is selfish, sick and extremely dangerous to my recovery.
Ok, I think I was lying to myself last night or it just hit me this morning.
Yes, I am looking forward to Plan B and not getting his emails anymore. They clearly cause me to doubt myself and then the stinkin thinkin creeps in. I am fighting it as hard as I can, shaking my head Mimi, but it's still there.
My head goes to, I know he was unhappy in his job for years. And we talked about him getting a new job a few times, but we were building a business back then and the answer we came to was that it would distract him. Plus financially I was scared it would hurt us. He had a safe job. This was a policy of joint agreement, maybe not something that was best for him, but as a family it seemed ok.
Then when I could tell things were changing in him, he was looking around for a job and I supported the decision because I knew how unhappy he was. He was having the A during this time.
I was always scared that I would lose my house, my big house and in the end I've lost my H, my M and my house. So who really is the big loser.
But in the end, I am a better person because of this and I have to give that glory to G-d. I was dying inside and now I just am sad and hurt, but so appreciative of my health, my spiritual walk and most important my relationship with G-d.
I can't speak from experience, but just looking at some of the other plan B'ers around here, I think the anxiety of starting a Plan B is pretty normal.
Embrace it for what it is... KNOW that you are right with God, yourself, and your kids.. and then just think about the peace of not being embroiled in the daily garbage anymore.
Honestly.. I'm not in Plan B... but I'm not really Plan A'ing anymore either.. It's a modified Plan D I think (hehe.. most of you who know me will get that joke).. but I've been able to detach and extract myself from WW's madness.. it's hers to deal with, not mine.
I'm he11 bent and determined to be happy.. and dangit.. I deserve to be.
I'll just choose my happiness along the path of righteousness and staying right with God... rather than the fleeting moments the world will give me.
Nice to hear from you. I am not anxious about going into to Plan B. I've lost him no matter if I am Plan Ain'g or Plan Bing. I finally understand that.
I think I am still doing that stinkin thinkin thing of questioning what happened. And the truth is, I SIMPLY DON'T KNOW. I don't know if anything I changed or did would have made a difference.
Because maybe this is what G-d had planned all along and there was NOTHING I could do to stop it. I just have to keep suiting up and showing up.
I find that sometimes when I take the crap out of my head and put it somewhere else it takes away the power.
I am truly looking forward to not having ANY communication with him. He is absolutely destructive and someone that has morals that I don't respect or want to be around. But I still love him and that's why it hurts.
I'm not afraid to be alone anymore, financially I could be ruined, but I am not afraid about it. I've got the ability to make money if I would just be more proactive and build my business. And honestly, my relationship with G-d wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for this, so in most ways I have come out the winner.
I just need to walk in G-d's will, become who he wants and wait for him to reveal his blessings to me. Though he has already given me so much.
Our pastor spoke of this on Sunday and it's so true. He reminded us that G-d's timing is not always our timing. He said that those commericals that say, "It's my "fill-in-the-blank and I want it now!" are a disservice to most people and a reflection of the worldview today.
G-d makes promises to us but what He doesn't do is promise to do it NOW. Sometimes it may be years before we see or even understand His answer to our current dilemma. In the meantime, we have to maintain our faith that God CAN and God WILL, but in His time, not ours.
You won't be alone Queenie. He's right there, walking beside you and carrying you when necessary. I truly believe that you'll be amazed at what comes out of this for you. I sense in you a compassion that will enable you to comfort others in the future who are deeply in pain. You'll be a mother to the motherless, a friend to the friendless, and a salve to the hurting that cross your path. Just wait and see.
I think you are right. This has completely opened me up to people's pain and I want to be there for them.
You are also right with G-ds timing. I just have to walk in FAITH and pray for the ability to do that. I trust him, I can see the changes and strength developing in me.
I am recognizing the stinkin thinkin sooner and shaking my head faster.
Mornings seem to be the hardest time for me, any suggestions how to change that. I wake up at 6 and usually read my two Jewish meditation books and then pray and start talking to G-d.
You are so welcome, as you are my hope. I really needed that thread. Even though I KNOW that he is this "LOST" person, you put it in black and white for me to print out and save.
I hope one day that my WH will be an inspiration to people on here as well. You are amazing and I have come to appreciate and really love it when you post to me. It helps me to not feel so crazy.
Your perception of stuff is really helpful, if you have time, please check out my thread and post when you sense I am trying to create sense out of craziness. LOL....
Ok, this is so weird. Yesterday, my MS came to school and was Cat in the Hat all day long. A teacher just came to me and was talking to me about my son. MS from the day he was born was such an angry person inside. He saw life as empty, not even half empty. Through the years his dad and I have worked very hard along with the school to help him learn coping skills.
He is the child who busted his dad, and since that day has transformed into the most amazing, happy person.
EVERYONE is noticing it and commenting about how he is so different. He walks with a smile on his face, he's happy go lucky, he is way more talkative than he used to be. They are blown away by the changes in him. And then they comment that it has been since WH left.
How interesting that MS and I are beaming in life and people notice the difference over and over constantly.
WOW! That is WONDERFUL news, Queenie! Isn't it amazing how resilient children are and how they know deep down inside just exactly what is happening all around them...even when we think they don't. Yay for Q's son!!!!!!!
You are not crazy, Queenie. You have taken one of the most horrible situations a person can go through and turned it into something positive for you and your children. That is a glorious accomplishment and you should wake up every day proud of yourself. THAT'S why people notice...it is an inner glow to go with your outer smile!
I am NO hero. Just doing what G-d is directing me to do in his will. Nothing special, just grateful that he is doing good. My YS is struggling way more. He is the angrier one, he is the one who misses his dad and won't talk about it. He failed 3 classes last semester and that hurts because he is a freshman.
I am truly looking forward to not having ANY communication with him. He is absolutely destructive and someone that has morals that I don't respect or want to be around. But I still love him and that's why it hurts.
I'm not afraid to be alone anymore, financially I could be ruined, but I am not afraid about it. I've got the ability to make money if I would just be more proactive and build my business. And honestly, my relationship with G-d wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for this, so in most ways I have come out the winner.
I just need to walk in G-d's will, become who he wants and wait for him to reveal his blessings to me. Though he has already given me so much.
My stars, girl, I think you've got it!!!
I love you much. You are AMAZING! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Now you were the one who recently lectured me to let go and put it in God's hands, so now you have to believe it yourself. We both need to do that. It won't be easy, but we'll do it together. And we'll get through it. Remember, it's all part of THE PLAN. No, we don't exactly know what that is yet, but we do know that there is one so we need to let it happen. It won't if we keep fighting it.
I love you, God loves you, all the MBers here love you. We will all work together to get to the other side.
You know Chai, I really feel like I have let it go. I totally know there is NOTHING to do anymore. He is with G-d and all I pray is for G-d to work his plan and reveal to me my next step.
The pain is there, not nearly as bad. I find I am functioning more and more at work, my crying isn't as deep or as long, and I just am at peace for the most part. I don't worry about the future, because I am just living in today. And today is all I need to work through.
I love everyone on here so much and there is NO WAY I could have survived this and work through becoming what I am watching me turn into. I am feeling good about my accomplishments and for the most part don't think of myself as garbage anymore, but someone that was a good wife and loved her H beyond what he could have imagined.
I can't control what he chooses, I think he is stupid, but it's his life and my children and me are the collateral damage from his destructive and selfish behavior.
Time takes time...
Last night at my AA meeting, I was listening to people talking about their bottoms. They were talking about drinking, drugging and smoking and it dawned on me, that I didn't hit a bottom when I got sober, I just quit for my husband. When I quit smoking I did it for my pregnancy. I had never hit rock bottom on anything. D-day and the subsequent days that followed were my ROCK BOTTOM. I went to places so low that I can't imagine I have survived. But I have.
There are promises that if you live a life of recovery you will receive, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but as long as you are painstaking about this point in our recovery, which I have been.
I don't know what plans G-d has for me, what I do know is G-d has them made for me and will reveal them to me as I need. I just have to walk in FAITH and TRUST.
There have been WAY TOO many BLESSINGS for me to deny this WHOLE TRAUMA and RECOVERY has been guided by G-d. It's not my plan, but I am walking in his protection day by day and just being still...
17 When the righteous cry for help, the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. 18 The LORD is near to the brokenhearted, and saves the crushed in spirit. 19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but the LORD delivers him out of them all. 20 He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken. 21 Evil shall slay the wicked; and those who hate the righteous will be condemned.
Please forgive me, but before I get to give up all the DRAMA of you know who and what... I forgot the best part about WH's new job.
There is traveling involved. So I have to chuckle to myself, b/c he'll be out of town worrying about whether she is using and/or cheating and she'll be worrying about what he is doing.
I even asked him if when we got our house together, could I travel with him and he said there wouldn't be time.
I just needed to put that out there because I am having a green moment... Or fun moment....
Self-righteous - Counting on yourself and relying on your own strength for salvation. A self-righteous person feels they are better than other folks and seldom see their own weakness or failures.
Righteous - Some one who trusts God is righteous. It is said repeatedly about various people that "He trusted God and it was counted to him as righteousness."
David understood this completely. His life was a mess. He murdered, committed adultery, treated his various wives badly...and yet God calls him "A man after mine own heart." The reason was that David trusted God to take care of him and take away his sins.
A self-righteous person considers themselves to be above others and in need of nothing from anyone, including God. Self-righteousness comes across as arrogance and smugness, because the self-righteous individual considers himself to have no needs they cannot supply in and of themselves.
A self-righteous person considers themselves to be above others and in need of nothing from anyone, including God. Self-righteousness comes across as arrogance and smugness, because the self-righteous individual considers himself to have no needs they cannot supply in and of themselves.
WH believes that he has a great relationship with G-d and so this be different?
Actually you know, it doesn't matter. It's his walk with G-d not mine and I need to keep my side of the street clean and stay out of his.
You're so FUNNY!! BTW, you're not supposed to be thinking about HIM !
I'm no so funny. I worked very hard to put him out of my mind, and I was succeeding, though I was getting sad and missing him. I called Smartie and we had the best time talking. I went to the PO close to where my boys were so I could then go to Wally World and get supplies for my son to go to Idaho tomorrow.
The PO was closed, so I went to the Maple Valley one, signed the paper to receive my trust fund and then talked to Smartie again all the way to the tanning place. We were laughing, dreaming, and then I went and tanned. Feeling in such a better space I went to the grocery store to get my kid his stuff, was walking out and decided to get a latte. I was standing in the line FOREVER and I felt him in the store. You might think I am crazy, but I did. I turned around and he was at HIS bank getting money. And something died inside of me because he has NO intention of walking over to me.
I turned and looked and then turned back around, somehow found the strength to walk over to him. I wasn't jovial, over the top happy. I talked to him and first words out of his mouth were about him getting the field for his lacrosse team. I was floored. Just floored. Not how are the kids doing, how's lacrosse going for them, could you send me a schedule, NOTHING. Just about his team and what he wants. I KNOW, NOT ONE WORD.
I said good bye and walked out. Got to my car and realized that this could possibly be the last time I ever see him and so I went back in and talked to him for a few more minutes. He was so nervous to get away from me. I thought for a minute she was there with him.
I asked him about his job. He told me how much he loves it, blah blah, and I asked him what hours he worked and he said told me and I said, and then I blew it and said, how our life could have been different with normal hours. He always had to be in bed by 9:30 and up by 3:30ish.
The strain was there because I knew the LSA and PBL are coming and I just didn't know what to say. I have been with this man for 29 years and I didn't know what to say. All I knew was he wanted away from me as fast as possible. And I was dying inside.
So, I told him I needed his W2 and he said ok. Then he said that he was excited we were getting another 600.00 back from the government, I didn't know what he was talking about so I asked him. And he made the comment that we would make more money having kids. I said so how are we going to distribute the money. And he said what do you mean. He got very leary, it was weird but something I recognize because he wasn't anticipating me taking care of myself. I said, are we going divy the money up 4 ways and I would get 3/4 because if we were making more $ off of the kids since I had the kids I should get the money. As you can imagine he didn't like that reasoning at all.
Then I told mentioned that DD told me you were giving me back the cell phone, I said when are you going to do that. Again, he seemed shocked and said he hadn't gotten his work phone yet and then he would. Again, he does what he wants and then throws it away.
It was terribly awkward not because of him, but because I actually just didn't want to be around him. He is so NOT my H. He just looks at me in disgust and no use for me.
So he reminded me to let him know about the field. I told him I would take care of it when I could. And left.
I was shaking so bad. I totally blew Plan A opportunities, but you know, it was the WH and not even close to my H. I did't feel like wasting my time, in fact wanted to take care of myself even though it killed me inside.
But on the way to my AA meeting, here I am saying I should have done this, that and the other. I beat myself up pretty good and now I am a basket case.
So I get home and find out that my DD is going to be with him on Saturday to get her car fixed and I am JEALOUS that I may lose her to her father. How sick is that.
So, to sum up. If I had gotten to the PO 4 minutes earlier, if I had gone to grocery store first instead of tanning, if I had not wanted a latte, I would have missed him totally and been protected. Now, I am devastated and don't understand what happened and how I could have just blown things. Which is totally ridiculous because he is in G-ds hands and I need to stay out of it.
I thought of you SMB and the talk you had with your kid about souls. I felt his soul in that store. And that happened right after this started. When he came to a lacrosse tournament, I felt him and turned around and there he was with her.
What is that about? I thought G-d wanted me to leave him alone? Why put him in my path like that?
And I am really mad at myself because I wasn't dressed as a true GODDESS. I was wearing nice outfit, but nothing special to show off my weight loss and my hair was pulled back and I didn't have mascara on. Thank goodness I had lipstick and had just come from the tanning place. My skin is dark right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm sorry for ranting, but if I don't do it here I will do it in my head and that will kill me.
Ok, I give. I just logged onto work email and WH has left me this. I told him kinda jokingly, thank you for wishing me a happy birthday in the store, and for a split second it was my H and he said, have a really good birthday. I thanked him very much and walked out of the store. And here on my email is this. What the HE!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
BS Happy Birthday! I hope you have a great day! If you can check on the field for Gonzo that would be great. Either 3/15 or 3/16 when it is available. WS
Why did he do that? What surprises me is he must have gotten home and immediately sent the email because of the time stamp on it. Why?
Well in one way that's good, he had to have dug out my email address for work because he hasn't used it for MONTHS. So now I have to figure out how to block it from happening again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
He makes ME NUTS..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Not that it should matter, I prepared for the 2 X 4's, but do you think he will miss me in Plan B? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Happy Happy Birthday Queenie! I don't know what to say about the WH sighting. I'm sorry it went badly and that he was a jerk. Grrrrrrr. Just continue on with your plan, there is nothing to do about yesterday. Today is a new day, a special day, because this is the day that Queenie was born!
No 2x4's today sweetie. But to answer your question, of course he's going to miss you. There is 25 years + that he was in a realtionship with you, and until now he hasn't had the need to miss you becasue he knows when he needed something, you where there. It will be a big shock when that's all gone.
One note from reading about the timming of your PBL and LSA. I would consider letting the LSA be served first and get the financal agreement be settled before giving him the PBL. I just think that if you give him the PBL first, he'll just make all kinds of waves and use finances to make your life more difficult.
I'm still there with you dear, and you're always in my prayers.
I've been thinking about you but I've caught the crud so I came home from work yesterday and am not going in today. Bleh.
Silly Waywards-they are always the center of their own universe.
I just wanted to let you know that you are very special and you have become that "a place of refuge" for your children because of your faith. (Prov 14:26).
Thank you so much Exodus, PM, TMTS, Hope, JT and Sexy. I appreciate your wishes. You are making my day with your thoughts. Thank you so much.
PM, WH wasn't a jerk. He just was full on WH and I DON'T like HIM. I miss MY H. I miss my BEST FRIEND, I miss the FATHER of my children who I can problem solve things with.
He was just the TYPICAL GARDEN VARIETY ALIEN MONSTER. And it caught me off guard.
A good lesson for me that I have to put a deeper FAITH and TRUST in G-d because I DIDN'T Plan to see him, it just HAPPENED.
Silly me, seeing him wasn't on MY TERMS, it was G-ds and I ran scared and just got hurt.
I'm embarrased that I wasn't stronger for you on here. I should have immediately done my best Plan A, but I felt like I was lying to him or witholding information, which I am and that made me uncomfortable.
I am one messed up person. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I'm embarrased that I wasn't stronger for you on here.
This is what you have to work on right here.
You have to do things for you not us, not him, not just your kids...
And remember that the reason you are going to Plan B is not to make him miss you...It is so you can stop missing him so much and hurting so much from dealing with him and his bovine excrement.
Dropped you a card on another thread, but Happy Birthday, Queenie.
You have to do things for you not us, not him, not just your kids...
I think you are right on this one.
No, I totally get why I am going into Plan B. I just want it to be a side benefit.
Bovine Excrement? I LOVE THIS...
You are right as usual.
Thank you for the card <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I really am having a wonderful day. My one coworker is taking me to lunch, my boss just gave me an amazing bowl and is taking me to my favorite local fancy restaurant, my other co-worker got me a very touching card, my friend just gave me the most beautiful Willow Tree Figurine on Friendship, and I feel VERY LOVED....
Oh and one close friend who doesn't work with me any longer, dropped off a fake four leaf clover flower. Which is such a blessing because I kill a plant by looking at it.
The biggest present I could get today is that someone on here who is hurting as deeply as I do at times, feels relief and knows that they are as special to G-d as everyone else. That would be the best day of all to bring happiness to one person and help them through their pain.
Then it's a totally awesome birthday. thank you for letting me know Loving. I hope that person knows how dear they are and how much I pray for their recovery even if I don't know them.
As always Miss Mimi, you are so right. Laughter is the best medicine of all and I am truly grateful I still have that.
You are too kind to me with your words. I am just one grateful person to have gotten to this website and been aloud to become part of this amazing support community.
It's my hope that truly I am able to bring comfort to those suffering on here and know that G-d is smiling up above knowing I am doing his work and it is good.
I am 47. Pretty old. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I LOVE them. I collectg them. My kids and hubby give them to me as gifts. I am sure that the artist was peeking into my home when she was creating those mother/child ones.
They touch my heart so deeply. I cry every time I get one.
I hope that you have a great birthday. I sorta remember 47, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> tis but a distant memory.......... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Happy Birthday your royalness. You are the same sign as my SIL and she is one of the best folks in the world--must be something about those Pisces...LOL.
I tried to send you an e-card from work this morning but they blocked the sites. Silly work... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Anyway I'm so glad you got so many nice things today. You are wonderful lady. We are all blessed to have you here.
WH reached a new low today. MY DD called him for help with her car the other day. He told her he had a lacrosse game and on his way home would call her. HE NEVER DID... She really needed his help and he BLEW her off.
I get that he has no USE for ME, but his own CHILD. She is so pissed at him right now.
I hurt for her, because she knows that her dad is gone and she wants me to move on and just divorce him. I am in a no win situation accept with G-d.
My MS is having an amazing tournament. Since I can't call H, I would like to share with you all. He was the goalie for Friday's game. They tied and he had 6 saves. Then today in their first game they won 17-2 and he had 5 goals, in his 2nd game it was 17-5 and he had 3 goals.
He sounds like he is having a blast.
My YS emailed his dad that his first game in Monday. He doesn't want him to show up, but he emails him? See how I think that my kids miss their dad and that's why I am fighting so hard to save my M or create a new one actually.
This is not a NEW LOW..it is moreso the NORM, IMO..
AGAIN, ALL THAT HE CARES ABOUT IS HIS FIX...not anything else...
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I hurt for her, because she knows that her dad is gone and she wants me to move on and just divorce him.
This is a BOUNDARY ISSUE..it's not your DAUGHTER'S ROLE to tell you what to do with YOUR LIFE..you are a WISE, GROWN WOMAN..she is basically still a child and can't possibly understand THIS..and is being DISRESPECTFUL to tell you what YOU should do...Does she assume that you can't think for yourself, that you can't take care of yourself, that you don't know what's best for yourself? My boys try to do this with me, too,about stuff..telling me what THEY think I should do about this and that.. but I call them on it. How would THEY know? I'm THE MOMMA..they are not the POPPAs..
My H abandoned our boys, too...and they are working on their relationships..there are still MAJOR STRUGGLES..but it's THEIR STUFF, Queenie...THIS IS BETWEEN YOUR WH and HIS CHILDREN....YOU can only be in CONTROL of YOUR RELATIONSHIP with them...
No one is around today, guess what book I might start reading. Boundaries???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Once I learn how to establish a boundary I can enforce it, right? LOL
I didn't mean to give the impression I wanted to fix it, I really don't, ah, who am I kidding. I'll be back after I read. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
YS emailed WH telling him that his 1st game is tomorrow. WH emailed back and asked him where and when and what team. YS emailed him telling him JV team and he didn't know where. That was a lie because he had the schedule and location out.
WH emailed back and congratulated him for making JV as a freshman. If he was involved in their lives he would know we don't have a frosh/soph team. And that he wanted to get a copy of the schedule and asked if he could come to some of his games.
I am being honest. I want to delete the email. I know, I'm bad, but I am putting it out here so I don't do it and have to live with the guilt and getting in G-ds way.
I have to be honest and just have it out there again. It's not that I am worried he will disappoint them. It's that I am jealous that he would offer to go see their games.
He doesnt' ever ask me how they are doing, he just wants to show up at a game and make it seem like he is the perfect dad. While I deal everyday with their school, anger, etc.
And then honestly, I am afraid they will all patch up their relationships and I will still be out of in the cold.
And as soon as I said this I realized I am trying to control and I HAVE TO HAVE FAITH IN G-D AND STOP IT.
First, Happy Belated Birthday! Sorry I missed the actual day.
Next, let the email go. Why are you reading YS's messages from your WS? Don't do that.
As above, WS's relationship with the kids is HIS. You know you can't FIX it, so do your best to stay out of it. Give them your love as always and let the rest go.
It is hard, for sure. Remember, even this is part of the consequences WH must deal with due to his choices. It is hard for us BSs to see our kids go through it all,,,,,we don't ever want our kids to feel an ounce of pain!
Yet we can no more MAKE them good parents than we can MAKE them stop being WSs.
My sons dad didn't pay a dime of child support. He didn't visit, call or contact them from the time they were 2 and 5 until they were 15 and 18. Imagine my SHOCK when my 18 year old told me he was moving to Oregon to stay with and get to know his dad.
Your children need a relationship with their father. Let them have it.
My YS lost his first game 6-1. Evidently they got smoked. He got two penalities. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just love listening to him talk after a game and the animation that goes with it.
My OS has a game tomorrow. Because he is on varsity now he gets to wear his jersey. He acts like it's no big deal, but it is. He has always had the talent to be on varsity, but his ego and attitude have stopped him. It's so awesome being able to spend time with him and watch him grow as a man.
Tonight on the way home from practice he told me that he was dedicating his season to me. I almost cried, and told him that he dedicate it to our new family and our recovery. He agreed. Then we went to dinner. He has his first game tomorrow night, bummer that I have to go to 2nd job.
I think I have decided to hold off on the house for now. A few reasons really. 1. Trying to show WH that I was moving on, and I am, but realistically I don't want to take on that kind of debt. Not right now because my life is in such turmoil. 2. I don't want to move again and the boys are settling into this place. So I could use some ideas on how to spruce up the place and make it a little more homey, but respectful that it's not my place. 3. My dream of living in Israel is still in my heart and I don't know if I want to tie myself down to a house.
It's not that I am totally saying no, I just am being a little more cautious and slower moving on the house. Besides this apartment has a pool, jacuzzi, clubhouse that I could rent out and exercise gym. I also am considering cancelling my membership at gym because the boys aren't going and I prefer to walk outside, even in the rain. I walked 4 miles tonight.
I am also toying with selling our 52 inch tv, which H wanted, not me and getting a flat screen smaller one. With the money that I can get for the tv, I could by a wall unit and have more room in the apt.
pool and jacuzzi? yeah, I'd be staying there too! Sell the tv! buy the tv you want! Do what it takes to make the place feel comfy! Call it home for now, sprout where you are planted... you're a strong plant and can be "repotted" when and where the time comes ;-)
As long as WH stays out of my life, I do pretty good. I can tell the difference in me when I have contact with him. I ready to not talk to him anymore.
Yep, pool and jacuzzi and I just happen to get one month off during the summer with my new body in tow.
I have ALWAYS hated the tv, but it was what the H WANTED. Not me. He just pushed until I gave in.
What can I do to spruce up an apt without having it be holes in the walls? I am new to this.
I am a strong plant, more strong than I realized. And tonight I realized how I come alive when singing Jewish songs in particular. My heart and soul call to Israel if not to live there, to visit. I love my religion, I love my heritage and I love knowing there is a homeland that is for ME when I am ready to go home. I can imagine sitting on the beaches of Haifa, hoping the bombs don't land <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Seriously, do you ever just have that feeling that you know you belong somewhere else one day. That's me. My heart belongs to Israel and making aliyah.
Unless H comes home. Then I would give it up for him.
Thanks Serenity, I am really working hard to build my new life and move on.
What can I do to spruce up an apt without having it be holes in the walls? I am new to this.
Talk to your landlord. They usually don't mind if you paint a wall, as long as it is a pale enough color that it could be covered in one coat when you move out. New slip covers can bring color in and make old furniture seem new. New bedding could help make it "your" bed. Go as girlie as you want! Get new placemats for the table, a new shower curtain... anything that says, "this is my space." Plants liven things up too. And if you do decide to make a nail hole, it can easily be filled with putty or plain white toothpaste when you leave.
That's what I was going to say... does the landloard come into your apartment? Will they know you poked a couple holes in the wall. We did in the apartment we lived in. I couldn't stand to have bare walls. Just remember to make it look good as new when the time comes to move out. Putty the holes, sand over them and and a touch of paint... nowadays you can buy small cans to match ANYTHING! I like the idea of adding plants and making the bedroom as girly or GODDESSY as you like!
I am very fortunate in that my walls are already painted a pretty color. It's the fact that there are just blinds. I would love to have curtains.
I like the idea of couch covers, though again I love my couches. I think plants are a good idea. I have it nicely decorated, it just seems to be missing something.
I really think getting the tv out of there would be a HUGE start for me. I HATE that tv.
I think the idea of painting the walls is a great idea. I'll check that out, not to mention getting touch up paint for any "holes" I do make. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
There comes a time for all of us when we realize that there isn't anything else that we can do but protect ourselves. Hence Plan B. It really does help because we don't want to hurt anymore. WS's continue to inflict pain upon us if we let them.
For your apartment, of course paint is always a great thing, but other than that buy only things that you can take with you. I just recovered two loveseats in my living room and it added a lot of color. I'm making bright pillows out of some coordinating fabric. I also made a duvet cover and pillow shams for my bedroom which really added a lot of color. There is so much that you can do to add color and fun. Make a quilt!! The only thing that I bought for my condo that I can't take was plantation shutters. I love them and it was the look that I wanted so I did it. I plan on living her for a while though.
You are doing so well Queenie, and you have come a long way. Let's talk soon.
You keep thinking I disapear, but i'm still lurking arroud. You are doing very well for yourself Queenie. I just wish your L would get his butt in gear.
I get vouch for what beleiver is saying about your sons. He will need to forge that relationship. Seeing that he's already doing a pretty good job at destroying his relationship with his D, he's going to have a tough go of it, and will regret it.
Prayers Queenie. (Yes I continue my bible studies with my mentor, not as quick as before but still reading daily)
You keep thinking I disapear, but i'm still lurking arroud.
It's a fact, I miss talking to you, but it's for the best reasons possible.
How is recovery going? What are you learning that you didn't realize?
I wish my L would get it together as well. I am really ready for Plan B.
I completely agree that what he has done with his kids is HIS problem and not MINE. I have to STAY OUT OF IT completely. He has surely made a mess of things, but it's NOT MY problem.
I don't think anyone can be praying harder and talking to G-d more about things than me. I wake up in the morning and start talking, all throughout the day, and the last thing I do when I go to sleep at night. I imagine myself sitting in front of him as he sits on his chair and I just spill my heart out for his desires for me.
Without a doubt, when I DON'T see WH, I am in a MUCH BETTER space. The drama of HIM will be nice to NOT have. Though I really do MISS my H very much. I told his team manager that I was fighting for my M and that I needed him to have that information because even though it may look like I am giving up, I am standing in the background and fighting for my M as hard as I could.
I don't have many people I can tell, so I am with anyone possible.
I know it's frustrating, but in my experience so far, these legal things tend to take a while to go through.
Keep your chin up, you're doing right by God, right for you, and right for your kids.
Be proud of yourself, and know that you are worthy of each and every one of God's blessings in your life. Just don't ever forget to be thankful for them as well.
Wanted to stop by and thank you for this thread...you have many awesome posters supporting you...
I'm happy you stopped adding to your pain, too...no longer choosing to read WH/DS emails is another healthy choice you are making, IMO.
One thing I noticed you did...and it goes with your HABIT of control...is that when you saw your WH offer to come to the games...you took that and ran with it...went into the future as if WH really would come to the games.
Easy to offer. Hard to follow through. Do not go where you have no control...helps teach your urge not to go there, either. You don't control the future or the past...just right now. And it's not that you don't have the right to control...you don't have the ability.
Like all of us...which makes you so embraceable...and not a mess. You've got an automatic habit to end and a new one to begin...like so much you're already making new in your life...this, too, will pass.
I promise.
You already know that in not choosing to think, believe, perceive that you control that which you cannot...that you are honoring God, getting out of his way to work in your life, your marriage, your parenting...your heart.
Your sweet, true and brave heart. There's not a thing wrong with you, Queenie.
I'm wondering like others about your choice to not give him the Plan B letter instead of waiting it on the L's actions...how would going dark now interfere with the LSA? (I'm clueless...really don't know.)
I'm sure Queenie will have a more comprehensive answer, but I -believe- it has a lot to do with WH still contributing some of his check to her, and wanting the backing of the LSA to ensure that that continues into Plan B..
Does that mean by not going to Plan B she keeps him giving part of his check? I understand the very real fear...don't understand where she has control, no matter what she does, over him paying or not.
Thank you Loving for your kinds words. I truly appreciate it. I am definetly working hard to let go of this NEED to control and get out of G-ds way. SO HARD FOR ME.....
I never really looked at my need to control as a habit, more as a character defect as it kept showing up in my AA 4th step. Thank you for saying it this way. I can pray and ask G-d to replace it with something that he wants me to have instead.
I'm taking your promise and holding it in my heart. Thank you.
I have to admit, in my craziness it never even occurred to me that he might just be talking. Besides, that really isn't the point, is it. It's my need to control and learning to change that, which is really the bottom line.
So, I am praying, asking G-d to remove this desire and need, putting it out here for people to call me on it and keep focusing myself on something else.
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You already know that in not choosing to think, believe, perceive that you control that which you cannot...that you are honoring God, getting out of his way to work in your life, your marriage, your parenting...your heart.
I didn't know this, thank you for saying it. Because all I want to do today is walk in G-ds path and not mine. Thy will be done not MINE. I am saying this over and over again and think I need to start reciting the Serenity Prayer. I have tools, I just need to stopped, be still... pray and let go. Imagine something that brings me peace instead of this craziness.
As for Plan B letter. A friend commented to me that one of the reasons WH is offering to come to the games is to get back at me for showing up at his game and embarrasing him. It never occured to me that I was doing that, just that I was staking my claim. If I did embarras him, he is very MAD at me and looking for the opportunity to hurt me because he plays games. He as always played games.
If he gets my Plan B letter, it will make him mad and he will try and mess with the money. I can make it a couple of weeks, but not long term. I am not the game player he is and want to be protected as much as possible. Therefore once the LSA if filed it would take 2 weeks to get him into court. I hope that explained it. If not, please tell me.
This WH is very dangerous, devious, a liar and out to destroy me. I can tell by the way he is when I am around him.
Somehow, SOMEHOW, I have to find a way to block out what I allow him to do to me. It's so ironic, we took a personal growth class for almost a year and in the end we worked at getting me to completely open up and totally trust him. And those walls came down and he went in for the kill by doing this. Now I have to somehow put those walls back up and I can't find them.
Trusting him was something I worked so hard to do because of his past and the deep hurts he inflicted over the years. And when I finally did, like the last time, he destroys it while I am at my most vulnerable.
If ANYONE has a thought on what this is about, please help me understand.
Does that mean by not going to Plan B she keeps him giving part of his check? I understand the very real fear...don't understand where she has control, no matter what she does, over him paying or not.
He pays. LA
He is giving me half of his paycheck. If there is ONE THING his ACTIONS have been is giving me the money. BUT I have gone out of my way not to make him angry or push his buttons. This LSA will make him angry because I have asked for sole custody with no parent input and no contact with OW.
I have seen this WH's anger and it's dangerous. I don't know him anymore and want to be as protected as possible.
You know, LA maybe this is just one more way of me trying to control things instead of just leaving it in G-ds hands. What do ya think? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You know, LA maybe this is just one more way of me trying to control things instead of just leaving it in G-ds hands. What do ya think? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You didn't ask me but I'll share what I think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
In this particular situation, I don't think this is you trying to control but rather it's you being smart, looking out for you and the kids. Now that I think this through, I agree with you that you SHOULD wait on the Plan B until the hearing on the LSA. No sense in poking the hornet's nest without protective gear. After the hearing, he can get mad all he wants, he still has to pay and you can be on your merry way.
You know PM I treasure it when you share and think your thoughts with me.
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In this particular situation, I don't think this is you trying to control but rather it's you being smart, looking out for you and the kids.
How do I learn to tell the difference between me being smart and protecting my children and myself or it being my need to control? This is a boundary or sonething so foreign to me.
thanks PM, I don't feel like I am doing great today, but I can promise you I am praying and working hard to keep this clean and learn from this internal upset and what's feeding it so I can not have it repeat itself.
Still fighting the crud-it's taken my voice- but that gives me a bit of time to check up on MB stuff. One thing I know about parenting plans in our state is that your boys are old enough to have a say in what they want. The parenting plan can reflect that.
My YS was 14 when all this started and he made it very clear that he didn't want to "have to" go to his dads at an assigned time. My L put that in the paperwork.
He goes over now when he wants and isn't busy with his many activities. That might be a good way to approach that part of it.
And, at least our state is tough on the issue of CS. If your WH decides to withhold $ to be vindictive, the Support Enforcement Office will take care of that. You might want that to be written into your plan as well. That way, the $ comes directly out of his check and into your account.
Queenie...I'm good with your choices. I respect they're yours.
What if in the year-long personal growth...God was working on your behalf, for your walls, which gave way too much power to others...and that the trust was in knowing WH made his own choices, each time? Seems terrifying at first, maybe...then, wonderfully secure.
We all make our choices. Your trust didn't make him go in for the kill. Your respect, love...nothing of yours makes him choose.
He chooses. You choose. Even at our best in partnering, we remain individuals...and in control of the door of influence on us...so do we at our worst.
What WH does is/was about him...his timing, his choices...his reasons. You don't know his intent...or whether he was embarrassed by you showing up at his game (you rocked, IMO) or not...you don't know about his offer to go to DS games, either...
Would you consider accepting what you don't know hits that fear in you...your button...which then drives the urge to control? When you accept what you don't know now...may or may not know later...and focus on what you really do know, I think you'll find your automatic habit derailed a bit.
Sounds like you have a supportive friend who is in the habit of feeding your not-present state of mind. Speculation is like a DJ...and LB's don't just hurt a marriage...they hurt us inside...rob our own love banks...and distort reality. It's okay not to know right now...truth is, you hurt...and you're gonna hurt for awhile...and you fear, too. You're not alone. Don't reach for more pain...easy does it.
You have all the tools for living skillfully. Your own self-doubt is a harm only you control. You truly are new every day because God gives all humans the opportunity to make different choices; even the tiniest ones.
You know your H...and you've come to know somewhat the WH. Careful of assumptions because of the pain they may add to you inside, 'k?
I go with PM on the priority...as a self-care measure, you're choosing not to give him the Plan B letter until you have the court backing you. Okay. Would you in the meantime consider you don't know what his reaction would be, if he would even be angry or vengeful...which may hurt worse than if he were?
That you choose your actions based on your own code...your stuff...then you are not controlled or controlling. You're you...you're free.
Hi JT, I'm sorry you aren't feeling good still. I can see how awful this is with all our kids. They are dropping like flies, and now we are having the worst case of lice outbreak that we have had in 12 years. UGH... I itch just thinking about it.
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My YS was 14 when all this started and he made it very clear that he didn't want to "have to" go to his dads at an assigned time. My L put that in the paperwork.
My L told me that in King Cty, I have to write in that WH has to have access to children at least every other weekend. Somewhere it will be made clear that the child gets to decide that. But I have to have it written that WH is allowed to have him.
I don't believe he will do anything once the LSA is in force, but if he had gotten th PBL first, I just have NO IDEA what he would have done.
I guess I'm scared that standing up for myself is going to push him away even further. I know G-d has plans for me, but the feelings are still there. And I am praying to not give them power.
It does help... Is there anything I can do for you? I sure don't feel like it today, so I am trusting you all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Honey, you didn't push your WH-he walked away on his own. All of these things are consequences of his own choices. It just feels odd to you because you have shielded him from these for a long time. It's an old pattern and it's hard to break.
Also, you aren't "pushing him away" by filing a LSA or by going into Plan B. You are protecting your kids and yourself. You are protecting them from financial troubles that could happen. You are protecting yourself from any legal things that may come down the road because of WH's choices. And you are protecting your heart and the love you have left for him.
Keep me and my very raspy voice in your prayers. I was home enough last year for a decade of sick days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
What if in the year-long personal growth...God was working on your behalf, for your walls, which gave way too much power to others...and that the trust was in knowing WH made his own choices, each time? Seems terrifying at first, maybe...then, wonderfully secure.
LA, can you please explain further, I am not sure I get this. Sorry.
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Would you consider accepting what you don't know hits that fear in you...your button...which then drives the urge to control?
Beyond a shadow of a doubt I would consider this. I think that this goes back to my childhood and certainly in my M. There were ALWAYS so many games I was left guessing and wondering all the time. I HATE the games and feel the need to know and understand because for SO LONG I have not known or understood. Does that make sense.
It's weird... I just realized this and am not sure I am going to say this correctly. I think G-d is calling me to walk into the UNKNOWN and COMPLETELY TRUST HIM, and he KNOWS that this is so FRIGHTENING TO ME, because I lived in the games and unknown my whole life. The piece that is different is I felt alone, but today I have G-d.
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Would you in the meantime consider you don't know what his reaction would be, if he would even be angry or vengeful...which may hurt worse than if he were?
Wow, LA you are sharp today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You're right of course, my own fear is that he won't give a rip that I have done this and just be relieved to be rid of me.
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That you choose your actions based on your own code...your stuff...then you are not controlled or controlling. You're you...you're free.
How can I learn to do this? This is the stuff that is so new to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Funny thing about walls we put up inside ourselves...we tell ourselves it is to protect us from attack...hurt...when the hurt comes from the inside.
And often, the attack does as well. Sometimes, we continue reliving the attack after it stops...because within our walls, there are echoes.
I believe that God is showing you that you have walked in the unknown all your life...no matter how much divining, mindreading, game-playing or distance you've done...in reality, each day was unknown to you. You had the experience that your control was extended because that was your belief.
God could be aligning you with reality...so you can experience, in its fullness, without coping mechanisms in the way...more intimate with God. When we stop taking what others think, believe, perceive as about us...in our control...and respect they think, they feel, they believe and perceive...their choices, not ours...then we're on the road to partnering, not parenting...loving in respect.
No walls...just knowledge. Assumptions are addictive, IME; subtle and sneaky...and like you, I fed on them like mana...felt like sustenance...coping...handling...rather than understanding and thriving.
Funny thing though...because I assumed so much...I assumed love...which meant often I would not feel it, because I didn't know and believe it...which left the "control", my power, in others' hands...for them to have to make me feel...which meant, make me believe.
Seems safer to make others' choices about us...factor ourselves into them...cross that human boundary...until it's deadly...like an A...then we see our limits...God's design of us...that we cannot be the cause, control or cure of others. That's our limit...and because of that, we're free to focus on what is within our control...we choose our very thoughts, our beliefs (one by one), the way we perceive and view...which results in what we feel...signals to alert us to what we can control...
And only we can know. No walls required. Healthy boundaries around us, about us...progressive enforcements...upon our own choices...like not to assume, not conjecture, not divine or self-deceive...not what we want. Not who we really are. We do and not do. So do other humans. You're responsible for your choices...you have no say in the outcome...and God made it so you choose your results.
He's leading, you're with him...no doubt. Again, I offer to you Alanon...those same 12-steps look very different from your AA ones...though they are the same...when you understand that false control is what you're addicted to...what you give up to your higher power.
Took a lot of self-control, belief, love and devotion for your long years of sobriety, Queenie...which is when you really stood in the place you have control...God-given and guided. You're just learning more, growing more...aren't you?
(Alanon and Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend...they reinforce each other)
Difference in living from fear (control) and from love. Very different experiences.
I have printed out what you are saying because I sense it's important to my personal growth, but I am not getting it. I want to read it and pray on it and see where it takes me with G-d.
Read Psalm 107. I won't quote it all but have some observations for you.
In verse 4 we see those that got stranded in life and felt hopeless. In verse verse 10 we see those who lived in a prison of their own making because they rebelled against God. In verse 17 we meet those who were afflicted because of their rebellion against God and their foolish ways. In verse 23 we see those who were in peril because they were doing their job, It was through no fault of their own, yet they were in danger of being engulfed by the waves.
In every single case, when they cried out to God, "Lord help!" God lifted them up, brought them to a place of shelter and provided for every need. Those who were fools and were afflicted were saved from death and healed. Those who were lost in the dessert and were thirsty were brought to a city where they were fed and their thirst was quenched. Those who were lost at sea as the storm raged around them were brought into safe harbor where they were no longer in peril.
And even those who rebelled against God and had created their own circumstances because of their choices, when they realized their condition and cried out to God for help, even they were set free from their chains and released from captivity to their sins.
God rescued all of them...Once they cried out to Him...
Verse 43 says: Whoever is wise, let him heed these things and consider the great love of the Lord.
He will save you Queenie. And He wants to save your WH but he has to cry out to God for help before God will do it...
Psalm 107:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.
You're just learning more, growing more...aren't you?
I am overwhelmed at all that I am learning and so very confused to be honest.
This boundaries, control, and fear thing just boggles me. I am reading what you are saying Loving, but I am having hard time digesting it. Can you please help explain it further. I'm sorry for being so dunce. Either that or my mind is fighting it because you are so dead on, which I have a feeling is the case.
I really appreciate you taking time and breaking it down.
Mark, I actually read that Psalm alot. I know G-d is there, I just wish I could physically feel him. Any suggestions?
God promises that if we seek Him with all our heart that we will find Him. He wants to meet with us right where we are.
It's easy to have faith when we feel His presence, it becomes more difficult to believe when we are in chaos. The too most difficult times to feel God's presence is when things are going really well, because we tend to forget about Him and forget that all that we have comes from Him and is really just on loan to us.
It is also very hard to have faith when things are going very badly for us, because then we start to question all the things we believed including His love for us. For how could a loving God allow us to suffer so much. But our suffering is merely the consequences of sin, both ours and that of others. It comes with living in a fallen world where sin and rebellion against God is what is the norm.
At some point, if we simply cry out to Him and say "Lord! Help me!" He will make Himself known to us. But we have to be willing to rely totally on Him and stop trying to do it for ourselves. This is what is meant by "letting go and letting God..."
How do I know God cares for me and that He is still watching over me when I don't feel His presence? I know because He promises that He cares and will always be there. He told Joshua to be strong and courageous and to not fear anything. "As I was with Moses, so I will be with you!" Once we understand that this is true, it is up to us to act as if it is true. It isn't enough to believe, we must act as if we believe.
When Noah was building the ark in the middle of the dessert, without a rain cloud in site, he continued to do what God called him to do, because he believed God and acted as if he did. It says of Noah that he believed God and that God counted it to him as righteousness. It isn't what we do for God that matters, but what we trust in Him to do for us...
I get caught up in the non action instead of just keep putting each toe in front of the other and know that when I get to the end of where G-d wants me I will be blessed.
My faith will come from not seeing, but believing and keep doing the work.
For so long I relied on me to take care of everything and was alone. I am NOT along anymore because G-d is there right with me and I just have to keep asking for his guidance every step of the way and perservere even when I don't think he is speaking to me.
It's quite amazing when you think that I really am NOT alone anymore, no matter what. Things and people can sadly come and go, but my relationship with G-d is mine alone and NO ONE can take that away. I may not take care of it or nurture it, but it is ALWAYS there for ME.
That's where the complete dependence on G-d in Psalm 23 comes from doesn't it?
On a mommy note - my YS played his second game. I got to scorekeep which I love to do. I also am team mom which keeps me active with him and his team and best of all, my son scored 4 goals and one assist. They won 10-4. It was a priviledge to watch him and a gift from G-d knowing that I have this time with my children because G-d is blessing me with it.
Mark, if I don't see you before. Good Shabbas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am very honored to have my own personal Jewish Mother to worry about me when I have a bad cold. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
My cold isn't worse because of my treatments last year. Everything is back to normal-most of the time. It's because my DD22 has been working at a daycare (she loves working with the little ones) and caught something from her kiddos. Of course, she didn't slow down until it was nearly pneumonia. Then, she decided to share it with me. Not on purpose-but that's just how it seems to go.
This week-end is the NJROTC drill team meet at my YS's high school. If I am not croaking by then, I will be helping with the concessions with the other parent boosters. It should be fun. My dad and mom will come up to watch and my OS is home from Wazzu so he'll be there as well.
That's about it. What are you up to this week-end?
I am very honored to have my own personal Jewish Mother to worry about me when I have a bad cold.
I make the best matzah ball soup you will ever taste. I wish I lived closer so I could bring you my cold remedy.
Ah, those others kids are always good for the killing of sicknesses.
Be careful being around all those people. You can catch something just being out in public. Take care of yourself, special one.
This weekend is pretty much devoted to my apt, my children an helping them with the history project and senior project. You know those 3 section boards, each one has their due this coming week. I am really looking forward to just having them to myself and helping them. I think I might even throw in the baking Goddess and gardening goddess into the mix after the domestic goddess strikes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are doing what you need to do for you, remember. I've got a little bit of a different take on this. To me he has to be expecting that this is coming, he just didn't know when. This will make it all too real for him. Remember the night that we had the mediator over to talk LSA. My FWW went over to the neighbors place and was taken back by the reality. This is not done dear, don't forget that part. This will let you heal, and put pressure on the A. My suggestion is to have your PBL ready to give to him the moment he comes to talk to you about the LSA. Have one of your L's business cards with you and tell him to have his L contact you’re L, and give him the PBL, give him a big kiss and hug then walk away. (See what Mimi's take in on this idea)
To me he has to be expecting that this is coming, he just didn't know when. This will make it all too real for him.
What make you think this TMTS? Just a week ago I saw him and said nothing. And one month ago I asked him what it would take for him to come home?
I am just shaking and crying inside. Now, for the letter. How do I give it to him and when? Should I just drop it off at work?
My DD called and evidently WH and OW are moving into the house in front of where he lives. He'll get a garage. He just doesn't stop the changes does he. I wonder if moving will make him happy now? I wonder if the job is making him happy?
I wonder when this pain that is cutting me up inside will go away and I will be at peace.
Here are the mass readings for the day
Jeremiah 20: 10 - 13
10 For I hear many whispering. Terror is on every side! "Denounce him! Let us denounce him!" say all my familiar friends, watching for my fall. "Perhaps he will be deceived, then we can overcome him, and take our revenge on him." 11 But the LORD is with me as a dread warrior; therefore my persecutors will stumble, they will not overcome me. They will be greatly shamed, for they will not succeed. Their eternal dishonor will never be forgotten. 12 O LORD of hosts, who triest the righteous, who seest the heart and the mind, let me see thy vengeance upon them, for to thee have I committed my cause. 13 Sing to the LORD; praise the LORD! For he has delivered the life of the needy from the hand of evildoers.
Psalms 18: 2 - 7
2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. 3 I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies. 4 The cords of death encompassed me, the torrents of perdition assailed me; 5 the cords of Sheol entangled me, the snares of death confronted me. 6 In my distress I called upon the LORD; to my God I cried for help. From his temple he heard my voice, and my cry to him reached his ears. 7 Then the earth reeled and rocked; the foundations also of the mountains trembled and quaked, because he was angry.
How fitting..... Oh G-d..... I am trusting him, walking in FAITH of his plan for ME, and believing that you are RIGHT, to save my M, this is the ONLY way.....
I hope this finds everyone doing ok. I sure missed you all so much.
WH was served with LSA on Friday the 14th. Didn't hear one word from him. I hand delivered PBL and told him I was setting him free. I hugged him tightly and walked away. For one split second he hugged me back.
Have not heard one word from him, but he didn't deposit his paycheck into my account for the first time since D-day. Imagine that. I didn't contact him, but I did call the lawyer who is sending him a letter tomorrow.
I did find out one thing that has set me free. He is buying cigarettes and beer for her. He HATES people who smoke. Hates it. So, I have hope.
So, as Plan B begins... what do I need to start doing or not doing?
Hey honey, Lala told me about you going into plan B. MB's timing couldn't have been worse huh??? Anyway, I have no advice, since my head has not been screwed on well as it is...hang in there and stay strong....
I think that what happened with MB and the timing of the board going down was very interesting and G-ds way of making me rely on him during the first few days.
I actually have been doing ok. Had questions I needed answered, kept in contact with some people by email.
Amen to that Queenie....On the night of my confrontation, I still am amazed at the timing of it all. I mean, I did not know what I was going to stumble on, and it was not why I went there in the first place...just amazing really....
Glad to hear you are doing well...now if we can hear from Serenity, I will feel better. I worried about her the most while the boards were down....
OMGoodness Not2! You're going to have me in tears. I actually thought about you all when the board was down. But I believe the timing was REALLY Gods timing!
Queenie! Good that you have gone no contact and you're letting your lawyer handle things. Did you do anything to celebrate? New outfit... anything special?
Serenity
PS No, didn't email with anyone as I have NO ones email ;-(
I was only in contact with Lala and snuggles, and no they didn't know her addy or anything. So I worried about her a lot. There were others I worried about too, but I had so much drama going on over here, that I didn't have time to worry about too much...
Anyway, been praying for you...keep your GODDESS chin up...
Hope you didn't get too drenched in any rain squalls yesterday.
It rained so hard against the windows that it scared DD22's wimpy dog-Grr. He's the biggest of the three and was cowaring behind our legs.
I'll be back later-gotta run errands.
JT, I got your email finally. I'm glad you are doing better. We have to hopefully get together soon. Your life sounds so busy and happy. How are you doing all health wise?
I was worried about you. glad to hear it went reletively well.
Watch out for that Not lady, she's got a temper and a mean hook. LOL
As far as what you do now... Live Queenie Live! God has set your path, it's for you to take it.
Oh TMTS, that is a little easier said than done. Did I post that he hasn't put the money in my account. Mr play games is right on target and the fact that she smokes and drinks beer and he buys it for her. Well stupidly gives me hope.
So live it is. I am thoroughly involved in my boys's lives and that's a good thing. I still am struggling losing weight, but I am plugging along.
Why is it I can't sleep anymore. I lay in bed at night and my mind won't shut off. I talk to G-d, pray for sleep and I just lay there.
When will a good night's sleep come when I sleep for more than 2 hours at a time.
Some suggestions for this please? It's been going on for a long time and I am exhausted. I caught a cold, my body is physically tired and yet I am wide awake, thinking, praying.
I miss you too Queenie, the strength you've been building up for the last few months is going to pay it's dues now and help you get through this. You got it right, he doing the game thing trying to get you to crack, he doesn't have a clue as to how much stronger you are and his games won't work anymore. You are doing so well! As for recovery, it's going quite well. We have a session with Jennifer tonight and we are going to be in trouble... we have been a little lazy on parts of the homework, on a good note the homework that we did do showed us that we are spending about 25hrs together so I hope that will help reduce that lashing. LOL
he doing the game thing trying to get you to crack, he doesn't have a clue as to how much stronger you are and his games won't work anymore.
No, he doesn't have a clue as to how hard I am working to save our marriage and willing to go to any lengths to accomplish that.
It's weird I have to admit there is a peaceful feeling of not having to find opportunities to Plan A him and then just get hurt, even though I know you aren't supposed to have expectations, sometimes we are just talking about common life courtesies.
He is in a bad way TMTS, I can see it by his actions of buying cigarettes and beer for her. Before he would have NEVER done anything like that or even associated with someone who smokes. He detests it. And then to be serious that if he didn't bring them home she would beat him up.
I need to be very grateful that I am out of that sickness and watching what G-d does instead of being involved in it. I still miss him with all my heart, pray for G-d to bring him down and still am very scared he will never wake up, but it's truly out of my hands now. As Mimi always says, have FAITH in G-D. And that's exactly what I do have. My friends though are NO support, they see this as me finally walking away and not an extension of me fighting for my marriage. What should I do about that?
I have to concentrate on learning about me and what makes me happy and that I am a good person.
I have suffered from recurring insomnia ever since D-day. Sometimes, though not always, what works for me to stop my mind from racing is to repeat to myself over and over again "I must stay awake."
I'm not always able to concentrate on that one phrase, but when I do, I always fall asleep pretty quickly.
I've had trouble sleeping too. I am about to go into Plan B myself and I am already starting to feel a little better just knowing that I don't have to keep allowing my WH to control my life with his cheating anymore. Drinking Chamomile tea really helps calm my nerves and before I know it I am falling asleep, especially if I drink a cup 30 minutes before going to bed. It soothes my nerves and calms me down. Maybe you should try it too, I can't believe how well it works helping me get more sleep.
You'll try anything up to but not drining right? I hope that's what you meant!!
If I were having a problem getting enough sleep I would look into some over the counter help. Sleep is SO important, I'm sure you know this, it's when the body heals itself! Not getting a restful nights sleep over and over again is just going to make this bad situation worse and you don't want to end up ill! Nip it now, if you're not into taking meds look into natural remedies, but do something so you can sleep!
I thought about you often when the boards were down. The email messages I get daily are so helpful, the woman that puts them out reminds me of you ;-)
I promise to do anything up to drinking, but not drink. At least today and that's all I have.
I think sleeping alone has been almost the worst part of this whole thing. I'm cold in bed and lonely. I slept with him almost everynight for over 29 years and he is just gone. I haven't slept decently since D-day, but lately it has been so much worse and I am just exhausted.
I take homeopathics, but I am still just sleeping 2 hours at a time, then waking up.
I worried about you a lot Serenity and missed you. What email messages and how does she remind you of me?
I hope it's good.
I'm glad we are all back together.
Hi Chai, I tried calling you tonight before my kids's games. Will talk soon, ok? How are you?
I understand the 2 hours of sleep at a time. I've been doing that off and on for a year 1/2. I saw my dr the other day, he suggested 1 Tylenol pm at night. Just 1. I tried it last night and I did sleep 5 hours! I don't think I'll take all it of the time, but sleep is too important not to get what we need.
It is hard to make good decisions or control our emotions when we are sleep deprived.
Plan B,,,,yes the peace is there. And yes, you are able to see better the path of destruction they are laying out for themselves. You can see it better than when in the 'heat of battle' with frequent interactions with the WS.
With time, you will not only be able to see their contributions to their own destruction, but you will gain more and more detachment. You will be able to separate the emotions, gradually over time. It's not that the emotions go away,,,,,you still will feel the love,,,,,,,you will still have those "I wish" moments, but they do not overwhelm you or your thoughts.
You have come very far in your journey & are doing so well!!
Thanks Bugs, That means alot and I will try the Tylenol.
I've finally caught a cold and it has just knocked me down, but the person who I work with is out until after spring break from pneumonia. So I can't take a day off and rest. I could really use it. I'm just exhausted and the cough is getting worse in my chest.
On the way to work this morning in the car I just broke down and sobbed. Scared the pants off of my son and I just couldn't stop. I'm so tired inside. I can't find anyone to buy my season tickets to the Redskins and after 48 years I probably am going to lose them. I've lost my husband. My house is in default and the contractor might have screwed me over. My youngest son is failing two classes.
I find I'm losing my energy to fight anymore or care. Is this normal?
Yes ma'am I am working out. I have been a bit busier this past week, but every chance I get I walk, and then walk around town. I have FAITH Mimi. I really do, and I know he will take care of me. I'm just tired and drained. No biggey..... I remember someone once telling me I wouldn't die from being tired. I'm sure that's true.
Oh Queenie, this stuff IS exhausting, physically, emotionally and spiritually. When you're not feeling well on top of everything, it seems even worse. But you know what... God will provide. He has and He will. Just imagine all of us holding you up when you're too weak to stand. (((Queenie)))
Queenie, I tried to send the info through private message as I don't want to offend ANYONE at this site, but it says you don't take private messages, which is fine... I'll risk it and tell you what I came across while the boards were down. I mean NO disrespect to anyone, I know everyone has different beliefs and religions etc...
Her name is Charlyne Steinkamp, didn't give up on her husband, even after divorce. They have three children and now seven grandchildren. She "stood" for her marriage, which is what I now say I am doing and my kids know it ;-) I found a picture on their website of an anniversary party that they had for 20 years remarriage, it's the Steinkamps with their children and all their grandchildren, I showed it to my kids and said this is WHY I'm "standing"! I get a daily email from them. Sometimes she tells part of her story, sometimes it's about other peoples testemony. Anyway there is a lot of scriputure scattered throughout the emails, now I'm not a very religious person but boy I tell you this has gotten to me and I'm soooo happy that I found it. It's given me a lot of peace in my heart. rejoiceministries.org The first page opens to "The Standers Affirmation" I love it! I've seen it used on other websites as well.
Almost forgot to mention... read the Restored Marriages and Testimonies, wonderful stuff!
this stuff IS exhausting, physically, emotionally and spiritually. When you're not feeling well on top of everything, it seems even worse. But you know what... God will provide. He has and He will. Just imagine all of us holding you up when you're too weak to stand.
I hope you understand how much this means to me and really know I wouldn't have MADE it this far without you all. I'm truly overwhelmed that people care about me and support me this much.
As horrendous this has been and seems to be moments during the day, my life is better because of the people on here and I am a better person because of your support.
I will change my thing to receive private messages. I didn't know it was set that way. Anyways, I actually get their emails everyday. I find them sometimes to be a little too much Christian scripture for me, but mostly it helps me to stay focused. I too look forward to reading them each night.
I turned Jamesus on to this site a few months ago. It's really wonderful. There isn't much out there and especially in Judaism which is very frustrating to me, but oh well.
It's snowing outside. I was going to go walking, but my boss needed me to stay late and I decided to give my body and brain a rest, not to mention there is stuff I need to get done at home for a change. I hate being at home so much. But I don't need to get into that do I.
Tonight seems like a really rough night for me. I am not sure why not, but I think that I am just plain exhausted. I forgot to stop at the store and get the Tylenol PM, I will tomorrow night hopefully.
Ok, am I nuts are am I seeing 5 stars on this. How did this happen?
scripture for me, but mostly it helps me to stay focused. I too look forward to reading them each night.
There isn't much out there and especially in Judaism which is very frustrating to me, but oh well.
Got an idea for you... why don't you start a web support system that includes your Judaism beliefs, from the sounds of it there may be a need out there! I'm clueless when it comes to the differences.
I have actually thought about it. But I don't know enough about my religion and beliefs to take on such a thing. So I am studying towards that in a way.
Gee-hope I didn't give you my cold. It is a killer this year.
You got snow??!! We haven't had any yet but it could be a messy morning.
Just wanted to tell you not to worry too much about your YS not doing well in two of his classes. When things like this happen, it isn't uncommon for kids to have a difficult semester, sometimes the whole year. I see this a lot in my program.
He may get a second wind after spring break. And he can easily take these classes again and still graduate on time.
Take care of yourself. The cough gets worse and then seems to hang on for a while.
I'm doing well Queenie, thanks. Hope you are doing better this evening!!
It may be your calling!! Funny, I was complaining a few months back, to WS about the lack of marriage counselors in the area, he said something about me looking into doing that... because I've always wanted to be a counselor but for adolescents. Anyway he said I could turn this bad situation into something good for someone else. ick!!
I miss you so much. Yep, it snowed for awhile. My OS just got home and got hit hard in the cheek with a helmet. He seems out of it.
Why do boys have to play so rough. These are the times when I miss their dad the most. And now I can't even call him for imaginary support.
I feel like I am going to break and not be able to bounce back. I'm trying so hard to just hang on, but I can't find the right word to describe it.
I want to scream, cry and get angry, but what good will it do. It won't bring him home and he doesn't give a rip. That's not fair, I have no clue what's happening on his end.
I just miss my H so very much. Not this monster. My husband.
Aren't WW just the most amazingly sensitive people. Seriously, they just have NO CLUE how bad we hurt inside and I really think what's worse is that they just don't care. Actually I really don't know anymore.
Plan B is weird. I certainly don't think about him much, but I am praying as hard as I can for G-d to break him. I'm supposed to build a new life and I don't know how to.
Mimi, I could certainly use a little pep talk from you right about now. There isn't anyone in my world that supports this Plan B other than to move on, get divorced and find someone else. Nobody understands or believes me that what I am learning on here about affairs is true and that he will NEVER come home.
Help, I feel so alone out here. It's hard not DOING anything, but leaving him with G-d. My heart is breaking all over again in a different way. He is self-destructing and there is NOTHING I can do but be out of the way and that's probably the hardest thing for me. Because I have NO IDEA what is happening.
I used to feel his presence in my heart, but it't not there. What is happening inside of me? Is this normal? I feel like I am losing the connection I have with my H, what tiny part it.
Please, tell me I am doing the right thing, there is NO OTHER WAY.
Here's what you do--go get your most favorite "feel good" CD and listen to it. Then, close your eyes, concentrate on your breathing, and pray. Pray for peace. Pray that the pain will be lifted from your heart. That you will no longer fear what you cannot control. Remember..."Perfect Love casteth out all fear."
Know that you are a wonderful person who deserves the very best. Know that we are all here for you, supporting you, and caring about you. Know that you will be rewarded.
I will pray for you tonight...that your heart and soul can have some peace and joy. You are a Goddess.....and we all love you!
have you ever heard that song "I get on my knees" by Jackie Valasques???? I know you are Jewish and it is a Christian song, but the words still apply to you. Google it or whatever. It brings me peace.....I hope it can do the same for you....
This is why you are in Plan B...
To get out of this mess....you know this is "tough love" and that is why you are doing it....
I see how much you love and care for him...it is so evident...and that is why you must stay strong...because he can't....G-d will take care of him, but most importantly, He will take care of you......
Cry out to G-d, cleanse your soul, and then get some sleep....
Relax... breathe.. LaLa and N2F are absolutely right, take some time out and do something for yourself.
Get on your knees and pray.. you KNOW that God will comfort you if you only ask Him to. HE will take the doubt away, and restore your spirit with strength, love, and joy! What an amazing God we serve who can, and WANTS TO comfort us through our darkest hours.
The key is to seek HIM.
I am thoroughly convinced that this period in my life is serving the greater purpose to teach me to ALWAYS turn to God FIRST instead of as a last resort when everything is going wrong because I've tried to mold the clay of my life with my limited view of the future and my circumstances. ONLY GOD SEES THE WHOLE PICTURE!
I read here once, and I may be wrong but I think it was either Mortarman or Bob Pure who wrote in one of the 'toolkit' type threads that one of the HARDEST things for a BS seeking the restoration of their marriage to do is to WAIT and TRUST in GOD'S TIMING.
God is never late. God is never early. God is right on time.
He's not done shaping you yet.. and He's not done shaping your H.
Have faith and KNOW that the LORD is working to benefit you, and never to harm you, but for the greater good in your life.
You know, I have given so much thought to what I would do if I had to forge ahead alone. Even though my FWH had ended his affair before I found out, he held on to a wayward mindset for years.
Sometimes I find myself looking at him and wondering if it is still there lurking like some demon waiting to come out and destroy us both.
I honestly don't know what I would do if I had to go on alone. I know it would be hard for me because my DD's are both grown and gone and I hardly ever see either one of them anymore. Without him, I would really be alone.
I would have to build a whole new life with new friendships etc. It is pretty scary for me to think about because I am not planning on starting a second career after I retire in 4 months.
I think the only thing I am certain of is that I wouldn't be looking for "someone else." Personally, I think that when you are looking for someone, you either don't find them, or you end up with the wrong person.
Just something to think about. FWIW, you are doing well. You are setting a great example of how a classy lady handles adversity. Your WH will either have an epiphany and come home to work on the marriage or he won't. I think that if there is anything that you can count on it is that either way, he will come to regret what he is doing.
I agree with the others and can't add anything more to their loving words filled with wisdom.
You are going through withdrawal 'cause you had love left for your husband.
That's a warning I would give to folks going into PLAN B.
I suffered the same pain that you did because I continued to love my husband and NEVER experienced PLAN B as a relief.
But, OVER TIME, the pain does subside and get better.
Do the SELF-TALK I shared with you months ago.
As I was just telling SL, I told myself that my H was DEAD to me...and that he did not exist anymore.
Remember, like I told you before, when I started thinking about him, I would shake my head...
I TRIED to stay busy, CREATING BEAUTY, doing things that symbolized for me that LIFE GOES ON EVEN THOUGH MY HUSBAND IS DEAD...so I started FLOWER GARDENING..I still love, love, love watching FLOWERS grow, even flowering houseplants cause they are evidence of GOD'S PRESENCE in the world. How else can such intricate beauty be created if there is not a GOD.
And just like HE makes those FLOWERS GROW, HE will is there taking care of you...
Well, I didn't get on my knees last night, but I did cry my heart out and plead with G-d for help in walking through this with strength, dignity and comfort. I really want to do his will, and I guess I could try and lie to myself and say I don't know what that is, but the truth is, I do. He wants me to keep moving forward and becoming the woman he always envisioned for me.
He wants me to just trust him and walk in FAITH and I am, and he knows I am obeying, just with a heavy heart. And sometimes the weight just overwhelms me. I feel like I am caught in a washer machine and the spin cycle and I'm just girating faster and faster with no end in sight.
I got on my knees this morning and just kept crying over and over again for some release of pain. For guidance on what my next step needs to be. Your right, Jamesus, waiting is so hard, but if I pray for the willingness and just keep praying second by second.
One thing I forgot to do that has helped it count my blessings. I am blessed with so much and know that there are so many people who have less than me. So I can stop the pity potty on that accord. In AA it says that G-d gives us everything we need. Not necessarily what we want
I am rambling for a few trying to process what is happening inside of me. I was always a person who controlled and worried about everything. And I don't seem to have the energy or the desire to do that anymore. Case in point. My Redskin season tickets - for over 48 years they have been in my family. The people who have bought them from me for over 30 years no longer want to and I have until Monday to come up with over 2200.00. Part of me is just saddened that I can't continue to have them as a part of my life, which I know many of you think that's stupid, but this was my identity for so long. And I find that as much as there is sadness I haven't gone out of my way to do the footwork to get someone else to buy them because I don't think I need that identity anymore or I just don't care. And I'm not sure which it is. Does this make sense?
Things that were so important to me aren't anymore. Things that I took for granted, I don't. My priorities have shifted and yet giving up these tickets, well I don't know if G-d wants me to or not. Does this make sense to anyone?
Thnk you so much everyone for your prayers and wishes. There is NO WAY I would be getting up each day if it weren't for my relationship with G-d and your support. It's so lonely in my real world because no one understands or accepts what I am saying.
And here we get to walk through it with each other understanding this pain which is a common bond. And somehow I don't feel so alone.
I feel like I am losing my will to fight or is it me learning to just let go and leave it in G-ds hands?
I so wish I could say something that could make all that pain go away. I do have comfort in knowing that you do have the strength to do this as you have said so yourself... (You know what’s coming next... right?)
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He really is losing a WINNER and AMAZING woman in me.
Psalm 23 from The Message Bible (paraphrase by Eugene Peterson)
God, my shepherd! I don't need a thing. You have bedded me down in lush meadows, you find me quiet pools to drink from. True to your word, you let me catch my breath and send me in the right direction.
Even when the way goes through Death Valley, I'm not afraid when you walk at my side. Your trusty shepherd's crook makes me feel secure.
You serve me a six-course dinner right in front of my enemies. You revive my drooping head; my cup brims with blessing.
Your beauty and love chase after me every day of my life. I'm back home in the house of God for the rest of my life.
Don't ever forget that God knows the bigger picture and He is putting all the pieces into place that need to be there before He shows us His plan. We can rest in His protection and care.
I was rubbing your beads this morning and last night as I always do when I need comforting. I love this prayer.
The one I turned to this morning was Psalm 144
(This is) a psalm of David.
v1 *LORD, I *bless you! You are my Rock! You prepared my hands for war. You taught my fingers to fight.
v2 You give me your kind love. You are my *fortress. You are like a strong place that you can take me to. You are a *shield that keeps me safe. You make my people obey me.
v3 *LORD, why do you want to know about people? Why do you think about them?
v4 People are just like the wind. They are just like a shadow that passes.
v5 LORD, open your *heavens and come down (to earth). Touch the mountains so that they give out smoke.
v6 Send *flashes of *lightning to frighten (your enemies). Shoot your *arrows and destroy them.
v7 Put your hand down from high (in the *heavens). Take me from the dangerous waters. Make me safe from the hands of foreign people.
v8 Their mouths speak *lies. Even when they make a promise, they are saying a *lie.
v9 I will sing to you a new song, God. I will make music to you on a *ten-stringed harp.
v10 You give help to kings to win their wars. Save your servant David from death by a *sword.
v11 Make me safe from the hands of foreign people. Their mouths speak lies. Even when they make a promise, they are saying a *lie.
v12 I pray that, when they are young, our sons will be like strong plants. (I pray that) our daughters will be beautiful, like parts of the wall of a great house.
v13 I pray that you, *LORD,) will fill the places where we store many different foods. (I pray that) our sheep will have thousands of young sheep. Then there will be tens of thousands of them in our fields.
v14 (I pray that) our cows will have good health. (I pray that) none of them will be sick or have *abortions. (I pray that) none of them will cry aloud in our fields.
v15 If this happens, then (God has) *blessed our people. If the *LORD is their God, then (God) will *bless people.
So often we tend to think of God's will as a place, but it is really a direction.
The reason anti-lock brakes have become all the rage, is because they overcome the ignorance of the people driving the car. If someone pulls out in front of you, your initial reaction is always the same, until you learn to do it differently. That reaction is to slam hard on the brake pedal and lock all 4 wheels up so the car begins to slide. The problem is that when the tires are sliding they have already exceeded their maximum grip.
What this means is that there is no grip left to steer the car. The result is that while you begin to slow down, you continue traveling the same direction you were going with no ability to change that direction. So while you lose a bit of speed, you end up hitting what is in front of you.
But anti-lock brakes prevent the wheels from exceeding their maximum grip in the linear direction and therefor have a reserve that allows for the steering to be able to change the direction of the car. By keeping the front tires rotating, steering wheel input still has an effect and you can steer around the obstacle. As the car loses forward speed, the ability of the tires to steer increases and you can often avoid hitting something simply by steering around it.
Race cars don't have anti-lock brakes, but the drivers have learned through practice that the breaks are not the answer to someone suddenly appearing in front of you. Their first reaction is to steer around the other car rather than to try to stop, which usually results in hitting it and also in being smacked from behind by some guy going 190 MPH.
The steering on a car also only works if the car is actually moving. If you sit in your driveway and saw the wheel back and forth all day, you will never face any direction but the one you were facing at the start. The tires have to be rolling in order for them to turn the car and change the way it is pointing.
So what does this have to do with the Will of God?
God has a path he wants us to take. As we begin along in the direction we think He is leading us, He can only make corrections to our path if we are actually moving. Standing still and waiting for Him to push us in the right direction results in remaining right where we were when we began. We experience no growth, our faith remains stagnant and we never get to where He expects us to be because we refused to take that first step in faith.
But if we begin to show movement and are truly seeking His guidance, He is able to make minor course corrections as we travel through life in order to keep us on His path. But we must be moving forward in faith in order for Him to do this. Sitting still and praying for Him to show us where to go next only works if we are willing to move once He speaks to us.
And when confronted with a crisis, our tendency is always the same. We slam on the brakes and try to stop. But sometimes God wants us to continue toward the crisis in order for us to be able to overcome it by faith. We do need to pray under those conditions, but we also need to keep going, for by attempting to stop, we cannot feel Him correcting our course and do not respond to His guidance. The result is we slam head on into what we were trying to avoid. If we had let Him change our direction (thinking) and continued to move forward in life, we might have missed the event all together or perhaps we would have only suffered a glancing blow instead of a full force crash.
We must pray to seek His will; we must also be willing to move forward in faith so that He can change our direction, because if we only sit and pray, we never get to where He wants us at all.
Prayer is your drivers license...
Faith is your steering wheel...
He leads us through the valley of the shadow of death, not around it. Unless we are moving, we are stuck right in the middle of it.
Or like the little train...I think I can...I think I can...With His help, I know I can...
Consider the guys at the front of the procession as the people of Israel approached the Jordan River at flood stage. The first ones in line were the priests, carrying not weapons of iron or bronze, but the Ark of God. The water stopped as they entered the flood, not before they got there. If they had waited for there to be dry land, as they were allowed to do when they crossed the Red Sea, David might have been born on the West Bank. No battle for Jericho where God showed His strength and power, no battle for Ai where He showed them He meant business and would not tolerate disobedience, no temple in Jerusalem, no miracle of the oil lasting seven nights instead of one...
Unless the two at the front were willing to get their feet wet and keep going, believing God would do what He promised, the book of Joshua would have been the last one in the Bible...
This is the Will of God...That you might know Him...
As usual you have given me something to look at. My initial reaction was that where my mind says I am walking in faith, my actions are not. And that's something I really need to look at.
During my strong days, there is just a peace that all is being taken care of and I am in the best hands possible. On days like yesterday when the grief of the situation is so strong, the sadness overwhelms me and I struggle with it all.
I really feel like I am moving forward. I think for the most part I have come to a place where I whatever the outcome is, G-d is preparing me for it and will bless me with it one day. Maybe I get overwhelmed at all that I still need to learn and walk through until that time and I get confused on where to shift the wheel next.
Your words bring such peace to my spirit because it feels like you are bringing me back to my center with G-d. Not sure why or how just very grateful. Let me sit with this and see where G-d takes me today and see what else I may learn for myself.
On our strong days, when we can see God working it is easy to feel Him with us and know that He is watching over us. When we see His blessings up close and personal we have no doubts or fears whatsoever.
But when we encounter those bad days and nothing feels like He is blessing what we are going through, those are the times when our faith in Him can grow the most. Just like David cried out to Him as he hid from Saul in the wilderness, we cry out to God for help. But while we are crying out to Him, we have to keep believing that He is still there with us and will in fact take care of us in the best way possible, not merely remove the trouble we are experiencing. Just as David had to keep running for his life because his enemy was close at hand, when the circumstances of our daily life threaten to overwhelm us is when God can do His mightiest work in us.
When Noah was told to build a huge ship, many miles from anywhere to launch such a thing, he had to make a choice. He could believe what God said about the coming flood or he could believe that there would never be need of a giant boat in the middle of the desert. He chose to believe God and the story tells us that God counted it to him as righteousness. We know that Noah was not a perfect man, and yet God chose him to be the source of salvation, not just for himself, but for all mankind and all of the land dwelling creatures as well.
So as Noah's neighbors and friends began to ridicule him for taking on this massive construction project, he could easily have given up in disgust. He put his life on hold in order to take years building a ship solely because God told him to do it. If he had not believed God, his life would have been much simpler.
But he chose to believe God and his actions followed that belief. He didn't merely agree that God was taking action on his behalf and that of his family and in fact the whole world, but he acted as if God was doing just that.
If Noah had any doubts about how to go about building a ship, understanding that he was not a ship builder since he lived many miles from anywhere ships that big could even be floated, he did not act as if he doubted. He knew nothing about the ship beyond what God had said.
What can help us to define our faith would be to ask the question, "If I believe God said He would ________, how would that affect my actions?" So when He says "I know I have the plans I have for you....plans to give you hope and a future," how would you act if you really believed that statement? And if you really understood God's promise to Joshua that "I will never leave you or forsake you," what would you do differently? If as it says in Psalm 102 God sits enthroned forever and as David understood that He knew us before He formed us in our mother's wombs, how would I act?
If God is really in charge of all of this and really only wants what is best for each of us, and loves us enough to have sent His prophets and leaders to show us by example what is possible if we only trust Him, shouldn't it change the way we respond to troubles as well as how we react to blessings?
Some may trust in horses and some may trust in chariots, but we choose to trust in the Lord our God!
Imagine being from a remote village somewhere and arriving at an airport by jumbo-jet. The plane brought you many thousands of miles from your home land. That in itself is a great miracle, that something so large and heavy can overcome gravity and fly at all. That it can fly thousands of miles without tiring is even more amazing. These are miracles we can see!
But now as you approach a door, with both hands full of luggage, carrying all of your worldly possessions, you realize their is no one to open that door and you will remain separated from your ultimate goal. But someone tells you to just keep walking and that the door will open for you just in time for you to pass through it and will close behind you until it is needed by someone else. If you stand and contemplate how such a thing might be possible, you will be stuck forever in the terminal and never reach your destination. But if you believe that that door will do just as you have been told and keep walking toward it, you discover that it is true. The door opens as if someone opened it just for you and after you pass, it closes behind you until the next person, both hands fully loaded approaches and just keeps walking and the door opens for him as well...
He will go with us, just as He went with the people of Israel when He led them from slavery in Egypt. He didn't just tell them go into the wilderness and promise to meet them in the promised land, He went before them, a column of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night. All who walked along and kept walking could see Him and know that He was there. Never before in history had such an event happened. Every other god of every other nation lived in a temple or a palace or on a mountain top somewhere. This God of Israel was with His people as long as they followed Him...
The hard part was when they had taken the land and encountered the blessing and they could no longer see Him even in the distance. It was then they forgot Him and the miracles He performed and turned to the ways of the people around them. And yet He kept showing up, when Samson overcame hundreds by God's might alone, when a shepherd boy refused to fear a Philistine giant, when fire consumed the offering on Mt Carmel and all the prophets of the false God Baal were slain, when the lepers found food to save the starving city by going to the enemy camp and encountering not a prison but a feast...
But Samson had to act and obey God for God to use him and David had to enter the fight in order for God to use his scrawny frame to overcome what others feared most and Elijah had to prepare the offering and the lepers had to get up and go to the enemy camp...
When a car runs a red light in front of us and God seems to intervene and we avoid the accident, it is easy to say it was a miracle of God, but how many times do we simply go through the intersection and nothing at all happens and we arrive at the other end safe and sound? When it happens just like that day after day with no visible intervention by God, He is still there, keeping us from harm and ensuring our safety and making sure we get where He wants us to go. It is every bit as great a miracle as the near accident that didn't happen.
And so too is the accident we cannot avoid if we believe He is in control of our lives. But we still have to get in the car and head off to work or we are forever enslaved to our fear...
Faith is moving forward, expecting Him to protect and guide us even when we can't feel or see Him. Keep looking for Him to show up in the smallest of ways and He will make sure you know He's still there...
"If I believe God said He would ________, how would that affect my actions?"
If I believe that G-d said He would restore my marriage, how would that affect my actions.
I think I would focus more on becoming the woman G-d envision instead of worrying about what will happen and when. Sad, but honest.
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"I know I have the plans I have for you....plans to give you hope and a future," how would you act if you really believed that statement?
I would completely stop worrying or feeling sorry for myself and just live each day.
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If God is really in charge of all of this and really only wants what is best for each of us, and loves us enough to have sent His prophets and leaders to show us by example what is possible if we only trust Him, shouldn't it change the way we respond to troubles as well as how we react to blessings?
Yes it should. And for me, more importantly it needs to.
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Faith is moving forward, expecting Him to protect and guide us even when we can't feel or see Him. Keep looking for Him to show up in the smallest of ways and He will make sure you know He's still there...
Yes he will.....
I read in my Jewish Co-dependency book that this is a process. It doesn't happen overnight and in 10 months, my relationship with G-d has become the most important thing in my life, but it's still so new and uncomfortable and I just need to keep asking, seeking and walking until it becomes a part of me like breathing.
The pain and hard times are just part of the process and I just need to walk through the door with the suitcases to get to the other side.
Mark, your wisdom is amazing. thank you.....
I keep beating myself up for something that can't have happened in one day, but over time and through the trials.
One question.... I am struggling with the what G-d's direction for me. G-d told Noah to build a boat. I struggle with what G-d is telling me to do. Unless what you are saying, and please forgive me for my slowness, but unless he is telling me to keep walking and have faith....no matter what....
Yesterday was a little bit of a victory in the learning not to control factor. My son told me that WH called him to come eat ice cream and ended up giving him some birthday presents.
He sprung it on me and I asked a few questions, but fortunately I was leaving the apt and didn't have time to dwell. I felt a little tweak, but for the most part the urge to know everything or feel sorry for myself was at a minimum. In the past I would have grilled YS as much as possible for information, but I didn't do that this time. YEAH!!!
Tomorrow is the day the season ticket money is due for the Redskins. I don't have it. I could borrow it from a friend, but that would be me under pressure to find time for someone to buy the tickets. Once upon a time, there was absolutely NO WAY I could have ever given up those tickets, but they don't define me anymore. My relationship with G-d, becoming the woman G-d envisions for me defines me. And yet there is still a sadness and not sure what to do.
he is telling me to keep walking and have faith....no matter what....
Ding...Ding...Ding...Ding...
One of the problems with discerning God's will is the fact that in this country we have bought into the notion that if we are obeying God, he will make everything in life easy for us. But when we read the scriptures we see people who trusted God through trouble, trials and uncertainty. Abram was told by God to leave all he knew and head to only God knew where. He went anyway...
David was anointed as King and had a right to the thrown. Saul was trying to kill him while he was still king, and David spared his life more than once, because he trusted God to protect him, since He had promised David he would be king...
Abraham took his son whom he loved more than his own life to a mountaintop willing to sacrifice him to God because he trusted that God would make a way to keep His promise that through that son the whole world would be blessed...
Making really good time on the highway is not an indication that you are on the right road and being stuck in traffic or bad weather conditions that slow your travel is no indication you are on the wrong one. Circumstances are not what determines God's will for us. We find it mainly in what He has revealed to all of us in scripture...
Good job!! The most difficult part is learning to not obsess about WH...it's a new habit that will take time to learn.
I have never been overtly religious...going to church and such but the way I get by on the bad days is by knowing that no matter what happens or how difficult...I KNOW that God will be there to guide me. There has been too many times in my life when I cried out for help and support--and somehow that help came in some form. Sometimes it would be years before I figured it out but in my heart I know that I'm being care for..guided. I would be an idiot to not recognize his hand in it.
You know that saying that when a door closes...a window opens? Sometimes it's a uphill-strenuous path to reach that window but it's there. He always provides...we just have to be "open" to it.
Sadly for me, the outcome of my M will not be what I had hoped for but somehow it feels right. But his plan is not always spelled out for us and I will continue to believe and have faith that he will continue to guide and lead me to be a better person.
Quote:he is telling me to keep walking and have faith....no matter what....
Ding...Ding...Ding...Ding...
I love the sound of that bell.
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Circumstances are not what determines God's will for us. We find it mainly in what He has revealed to all of us in scripture...
Alas, the study of Torah is where I find my book of life and my true road to recovery.
I didn't necessarily want G-d to make it easier for me, I have come to understand we all have our journey's of pain and lessons learned. What I am learning to truly understand is that though I am willing to walk through the hard times, I wanted the outcome to be a certain way. The restoration of my marriage.
That's where FAITH comes in. I don't know what He has planned for me, but it will be beyond my wildest dreams. I know that he wants my M to be restored, but he will do what is best for ME and not what I think is best for me.
And I will simply just have to accept this time in my life as Abram, David, Abraham and so many others did. There is much for me to learn about myself and my FAITH and walk with G-d. There is also very much of me to learn about Torah. I can take this opportunity of solitude to learn my lessons instead of worrying about what I can't CONTROL.
I have said for so many years I want to study Torah and that opportunity just hasn't presented itself. Maybe I need to figure one out?
You are so right, that is a difficult road to learn. But I am willing to learn.
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He always provides...we just have to be "open" to it.
This too has been a learning experience for me. I had a very hard time letting go of the outcome I want, to just walking in FAITH and waiting for the blessings.
I would love to have more 2 cents worth.
You know, we never really know what will happen until it does. That can be the best part and the worst part, but having this website and G-d on our side at least is the safe part.
Today is a good day to test myself in just walking in faith toe by toe.
So far so good.
A few interesting G-d things have happened in the last few days.
As it turns out, my business associate loaned me the money for my Redskin tickets. It's so interesting because a year or so ago, I would have moved heaven and earth, sold my soul to save these tickets. They were who defined me. I truly have come to a place in my life, where those tickets no longer define me, and was completely prepared to lose them if that's what was meant to be. I gave up completel control on this and just walked through in FAITH with G-d. I couldn't have done this before. NO WAY, not where these tickets and Redskins were concerned. But I did, because I have changed.
There has been this guy at my AA meetings who has gone out of his way to be nice, hugging me, etc. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago and gave him a card thanking him for the attention. I had realized that for the first time in YEARS I felt like something who matter or felt like a woman. Not this piece of dirt that my husband treated me like.
On Sunday at the meeting we were talking and he told me that he did like me and said I was hot. I told him that I was married, wanted my marriage and wasn't interested in a relationship whatsoever. But again, I told him how nice it was for him to say that and it meant a lot. Which is did. I realized that night that in over 29 years of being with my husband, he NEVER once told me I was hot or treated me as a desired woman. He just had SF because we were young, but I imagine it could have been anyone.
What happened gave me a little sign that even if my husband finds me completely undesirable, that isn't true. And it was nice.
Now for a little advice... When I delivered PBL, I asked WH to give his cell phone over to our friend along with his W2. He hasn't done that. Unfortunately what that allows me to do is check his phone calls, which I know I shouldn't. I am praying for the willingness. Anyways, I noticed that he called my lawyer, because he did end up depositing the money into our checking account. But then I saw he called a paralegal services.
I have to admit, it put a huge cringe in my heart, but then I just gave it to G-d and worked a little harder in walking in faith.
You see, I had just had those two experiences of FAITH and I just felt what to do. I was ok, still a little sad, but that's just a feeling. This morning, I'm still a little sadder, but I am owning it hear and walking in FAITH.
Those two experiences gave me the help of FAITH that no matter what is in front, the door will open when it's time and G-d has me in the right place. I just need to keep walking, being honest with myself, learning about myself and totally giving my will and my life over to the care of G-d.
Mark, those teachings you gave me are helping me to keep walking. I don't know if you understand how powerful your words are, but I am so lucky to have them. Thank you...
Any chance of us studying Torah on here? I know I've asked before, but I don't think I was capable of focusing on it. I believe that I am growing inside a little more and able to take this on.
What a BLESSING about your tickets!! TRUST AND FAITH..We've been telling ya...
YOU NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT GUY! GIVING HIM THAT CARD WAS A NO-NO! YOU WILL BE TEMPTED TO MAINTAIN THAT RELATIONSHIP! I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD TALK TO HIM ANYMORE right now!! You're rewriting history due to your conversation with him. That's bull about your relationship with your H. I don't believe for one minute that your husband just had SF with you because you were young. If that is so, why do you want to recover your marriage? You see, this can be problemmatic....and lead you to divorce...
You are also not following the PLAN B rules by looking at his calls, Queenie...
Don't start down that PLAN B path of breaking PLAN B..just this once..just this once turns into over and over again...YUCK!!
What a BLESSING about your tickets!! TRUST AND FAITH..We've been telling ya...
I think it was the first time that I really let the outcome go. It was a gift from G-d to experience that and so I have something to draw from when I need to know what having FAITH and TRUST means. That may seem stupid, but it's something I really needed. And I am so grateful.
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YOU NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT GUY!
You are right.
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You're rewriting history due to your conversation with him.
I hadn't even thought of this.
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If that is so, why do you want to recover your marriage?
I have been with my H for so many years I can't remember what life was like with him. But I can tell you for years and years and years our SF life was not good and that's on him, not me. It's one thing that has needed to be worked on and he wasn't willing to go there. Why do I want to recover my M when that was such a problem. Because I believe in my H. I buy into the fact that he is in an addiction and sick. I believe in the person he is capable of being and that's why I want to restore my M. We are both two sick people who lived a very dry drunk life. But as healthy people, we have the qualities and commitment to each other to make the most magnificent life. Does that make sense?
[quote] Don't start down that PLAN B path of breaking PLAN B..just this once.. [quote] OK.... This will be the hard one for sure.
Thanks Mimi for calling me on the truth. thank you....
There has been this guy at my AA meetings who has gone out of his way to be nice, hugging me, etc. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago and gave him a card thanking him for the attention. I had realized that for the first time in YEARS I felt like something who matter or felt like a woman. Not this piece of dirt that my husband treated me like.
Just feel like I should warn you that you need to protect yourself right now more than ever. You are so vulnerable from months of doing everything for your WH while he has done nothing for you at all. Your LB$ is not only empty, but like a vacuum and any attention you get from any man is likely to feel wonderful...and a tiny bit more than that and it might feel too wonderful...And you have seen what happens when that "feeling" thing starts up. All logic goes out the window. Knowing a thing is not right does not make it any easier to resist and the next thing you know, you are in your own affair and when your H calls you, assuming he does, you will have a real serious dilemma on your hands.
So be super-duper, over-the-top, way beyond normal, careful right now until you can complete withdrawal from your husband.
As for studying Torah on here. I would only say that my view of Torah is colored by my belief in Jeshua as Messiah. The things I see in the writings of Moses and the prophets is based on what I believe God has revealed in the writings of Paul and the other authors of the New Testament.
As an example of that kind of thought process, I can give you an example...
To me, Jesus, as Messiah, is mentioned first in Gen 3:15 as the offspring of the woman. When Abraham was promised that through him and his son Isaac the whole world would be blessed, I believe that reference was to Messiah. And when God provided a substitute for Isaac for the sacrifice, I believe He was reinforcing a precedent that He established in Gen 3:21 where He made garments for Adam and Eve from the skins of animals, suggesting that while God had said "You will surely die" as to the punishment for disobeying Him, there was instead a substitutionary death in that animals had to die in order for them to live in God's presence. And just as God clothed them, He clothes those who believe in Him with His righteousness, since what we can contribute is so woefully inadequate. We stand naked before God and only His righteousness can prevent us from suffering the just rewards for our disobedience.
I also believe that when David was promised that his descendant would sit on the throne of Israel forever, that descendant was in fact Jeshua, who was descended from David. I also believe that it was by God providing a substitutionary sacrifice in Jeshua that a person can stand before God and be found acceptable.
Now many theological implications result from this understanding of scripture as being not a collection of stories that show us examples as to simply how to conduct ourselves, but really a single story of how God made the universe, created Man for relationship with Him, Man sinned (turned his back on God) and the whole rest of all the bible, both old and new testaments, is the story of God providing a way for that relationship to be restored. We are in fact the wayward spouse who turned our back on the righteous husband and pursued our other lovers and the bible is the documentation of that husband's efforts to restore us to the relationship we have rejected.
Plan A and Plan B are really just a repeat of what God has already done. When Israel ran after other gods, He sent prophets to her to show her His love for her. But when she continued to reject His ways and refused to give up those other gods, He turned His back on her and she was carried away to slavery once more in Babylon. But when Israel was repentant, God restored the relationship with her and let the people return and the walls were rebuilt and the temple was made more beautiful than before. Plan B had ended, and Israel once more took her rightful place as God's bride...
God even shows us that this is His story by giving us the story of the prophet Hosea who was married to an adulterous woman who ran after other lovers, and Hosea ransoms her back from her captivity in sin and restores her to her position as his wife, though she did nothing to deserve such treatment.
You see, when it comes to God, I think that we are all Hosea's wife, and it is only by Him redeeming us that we can have a relationship with Him at all. Until then, we are lost in captivity to sin that is of our own doing and making.
So that is where my perspective of Torah comes from...
When you know what God has done, it changes the way you see what He did before...
Still want to attempt it?
The reason so few understand scripture is that they read it without studying it. It isn't enough to see the words, you have to know what they mean, and that sometimes requires understanding the context or the overall message God is trying to present.
For example, why would many Jews be fearful of Christian teachings?
Could it be that it was in the name of "Christianity" the crusades slaughtered thousands simply because they were not "Christians?" Or might the fact that Hitler claimed to be a "Christian" that they would be skeptical. But it isn't until you discover that nothing Jesus or any of His followers ever taught had anything to do with hatred or condemnation of the Jews, nor the Arabs, for that matter, but that Jeshua was a Jew, who celebrated Passover, the Festival of Lights, Purim and all the rest, and that His closest followers called Him rabbi, and that he said that if a man strikes you on the left cheek, you should offer him your right as well... (there is a context to this that many don't know, BTW)...
My point is that it is often the "back story" that sheds light on the meaning of the story itself.
Please don't shut up. I really believe that your wisdom and way of bringing Torah to life is a message for me from G-d.
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Still want to attempt it?
Absolutely I need to attempt this.
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For example, why would many Jews be fearful of Christian teachings?
This statement was so true for me once, but no longer. This journey I am on is about finding G-d. I was threatened by Christianity, but then this happened and I pondered whether G-d was calling me to become Christian. I don't believe that at all. My heart is in Judaism, my soul is in our traditions and callings of our ways. I don't know them all, but I continue to learn and live my life that way.
But above all, Judaism is a religion/culture of examination and questioning everything. I can't remember the joke of rabbi's and opinions but I imagine you have heard it once or twice. And it's in that spirit of questioning and searching is what brings me to ask you for help in studying Torah, and not fearing Christianity as I once did but embrace it as a resource of looking at what the message from G-d for me is. Does that make sense?
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My point is that it is often the "back story" that sheds light on the meaning of the story itself.
And I am asking for help in uncovering the light of the back story for myself.
While you are still missing your husband, you are even more vulnerable than you will be once the dust has settled. Even then, if you are really waiting for his affair to end, you need to remain vigilant that you don't allow another man to come to your rescue from your unmet ENs.
I was just pointing out that right now especially, you could easily fall into an affair of your own by doing nothing more than allowing another man to meet any of your ENs, since nothing is being met by your husband at all.
Assuming Dr Harley is correct, which I do think is the case, even having one EN met by one person over a period of time could result in that person's LB$ balance exceeding the romantic threshold and then, you will be as addicted to him as your WH is to the crack-ho.
That is why you need to heal first and then decide if waiting longer is your desire or if, after you have learned to live without your husband totally, and you are fulfilled, not by any man, but feel complete in and of yourself needing no one but God to complete you, then and only then should you examine whether or not you are going to continue in Plan B or let the marriage end.
If you were to fall in love with someone else while still married and then your husband suddenly became repentant and wanted you back, there would once more be three people involved in the decision instead of the two of you. I'm not saying remain celibate and true to the man who betrayed you forever, only that you need to remain focused on the why of Plan B until you have come to a clear decision that the marriage is lost and you want to move on. If that decision were to come today, nobody here could fault you for it. You have gone above and beyond what any typical person might be reasonably expected to do, but unless you are ready to decide to move on without him forever, guard your heart from any other entanglement that could prevent the restoration of your marriage if the opportunity presents itself.
Like I said, if you are ready to end Plan B and go for Plan D, then I'm here to support you in any way I can. Just don't make the mistake of giving up on one because you have found another. That is after all, what your husband and every other WS has done...
It's over when you say it is or when the ink is dry on the divorce decree and even then might not be if you wished to pursue it beyond that. But make it an informed decision and not one born of ENs met by another broken person in a similar situation. This is too easy to allow for a recovering addict to anything. This is why methadone doesn't cure addiction to heroine, only transfers the desire from one drug to another. Heroine itself was created in part to cure addiction to morphine which was invented to cure addiction to opium...
As you know, addiction is about how the source of that addiction makes you feel. It creates a sense of happiness, power and well being that can't be reached without the substance of choice and that is why an affair is an addiction in the truest sense of the word. And that is what the love bank is all about, having that sense of happiness and contentment and well being that is not a part of normal everyday life without that person.
For now, rely on God to supply your needs and wait for the day when you know He wants you to move on, if that is today, then move on, if not, just keep on the path you are on until He directs you yo do otherwise.
Another two cents and worth every penny...Soon, you'll have enough to go to Starbucks for a small coffee.
What happened gave me a little sign that even if my husband finds me completely undesirable, that isn't true. And it was nice.
Queenie,
I so understand this, yanno. You also know where that led me.
Please protect your heart. Right now, you cannot fathom how easy it is to let another man fill your LB. You won't even realize that's what's happening. He's already made deposits into your LB. And now you feel drawn to him.
If your goal is to save your marriage, stay away from this man. You were right to tell him that you are hoping to save your marriage, but that is not enough. You must not allow him opportunities to fill your needs, otherwise, you WILL begin to have very strong feelings for him.
You feel rejected, thrown out like trash. I KNOW! I felt it, too. That's what makes this man so dangerous.
That is why you need to heal first and then decide if waiting longer is your desire or if, after you have learned to live without your husband totally, and you are fulfilled, not by any man, but feel complete in and of yourself needing no one but God to complete you, then and only then should you examine whether or not you are going to continue in Plan B or let the marriage end.
Ok.... I understand
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but unless you are ready to decide to move on without him forever
Not one bit. I really wish I could do this, but alas I can't give up on him yet. I have given him away, but can't give up on G-d. Not yet and I don't believe for one moment G-d is asking me too. Not today at least.
I'm not sure I would agree that I have done more than one reasonable person, I did what I think was right and gives me the ability to look myself in the face and know I gave it my all and checked my ego at the door and did what was just simply right to do.
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Another two cents and worth every penny...Soon, you'll have enough to go to Starbucks for a small coffee.
How about I save it for my tzedakah box and donate it to a good cause that will help people?
Queenie I just had a thought...Do you think WH actually remember after a few weeks/months what we wrote in our PBL's?They are so fogged out do they retain anything?
I know what you are saying and are completely right. And even though I believed it was just a nice gesture I can certainly see where it could get me into trouble because I just want it to be harmless, but it was nice.
I think that everyone has convinced me I need to not go near the fire. AT ALL..
For me, if for no one else, but my conscience, dignity and walk with G-d.
Do you think WH actually remember after a few weeks/months what we wrote in our PBL's?They are so fogged out do they retain anything?
You silly girl.. You know there is NO WAY I am going to answer that one.
It doesn't matter what they are doing, thinking. They haven't met our demands so they don't deserve our attention. We wrote the letter. G-d knows we wrote the letter and we have to walk in FAITH and TRUST G-d.
Queenie you are so right..they don't deserve our attention!!
I must constantly remind myself that WH 's are ADDICTS..
My problem is that I keep thinking logically and I know affairs are not LOGICAL!!
You are remarkablely strong Queenie....I'm learning from you although I am further along in my stitch!!14 months now. Its nearly midnight here so I must get some sleep,work tomorrow!
I guess we'd need a place to do that so we don't end up with a huge, out of control, dominating the GQII forum, hard to keep on page one so we can find it sort of thread. Where would you suggest?
I think I would word it a bit different. It's not that they don't deserve our attention, they do, WHEN they meet our demands. They haven't met our demands, so we don't get to think about them.
Plan B is preserving the love we have for them and if we are constantly thinking about them knowing they are out there doing their thing... It will drain us.
I'm not remarkable. Not one bit. I hope that I am just humbled enough and have checked my ego at the door enough to listen to the wisdom on here knowing that they have the knowledge and I am just the student.
My goal is to save my M. My best thinking got me here, I need to check my mind at the door and let others who have walked before me, lead me.
I'm so on top of this. I have emailed JustUss and asked him to create a new thread called Torah - a look through different eyes. I think that's what I asked for.
Here I was just trying to decide if we should put it under "Other Topics" or some place like that. Considering that I am not a Torah scholar but merely a broken down old Sunday school teacher, I didn't think a new forum needed starting.
Besides that, then they will have to make available one to study The Book of Mormon, one for studying The Qur'an, the Sayings of Siddhartha Gautama, the Teachings of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and Quotations From Chairman Mao if anybody asks for one.
How about...[ I'll find it, no matter what it's called...
Just don't make it so serious that I have to live up to too much...
LOL, You should see some of the questions I've been sending Mark... and that's only covering one book. We haven't get to the deep stuff yet... I think he's scared now. LOL
Listen to that whisper, of the holy spirit, or G-d if you will, that will tell you what you need to do.
Be quiet, and LISTEN. Your higher power has good things in store for your life. Not always what you want, but what HIS will is, and what you need. Do not doubt this for a second.
That's all. LOL Not really, I always have more to say, LOL!!
Oh, and has anyone told you lately that you are WORTHY?!!!!
Love in Christ, Miss M
ps. It is sooo funny, I would not post to you for awhile because of the "- " in the God, but once I understood where you were at, I can respect that!!!!LOL!!
ps. It is sooo funny, I would not post to you for awhile because of the "- " in the God, but once I understood where you were at, I can respect that!!!!LOL!!
I'm grateful that you have.
Before this happened, truth be told I would have avoided you because of the way you end wotj Love in Christ. But now... I embrace your commitment to your spirituality and life. I have come to appreciate our differences and embrace each other for our strengths and knowing that we are in a very dark time of our lives for a reason and each one of us offers something to the other that only each one of us can offer.
You just did by saying I am worthy. Thank you... It's been awhile, but I need to learn to do it for myself.
This has been a blessed day for me. A new thread has been started that going to help me learn about something I always wanted to - Torah. I got to watch my OS play his game tonight, he scored the goal that tied it up, got 2 assists and they won in overtime.
And not once, did I check his phone calls or read son's emails. Woohoo. I am thanking G-d for this victory. And I am at peace...I will say my lawyer called to let me know WH called him and tried to explain why he didn't deposit his check the week before. It was a lie and I told my lawyer that, emailed him the information that backed up my story and moved on.
The only slip I had was at the game I walked around the field and talked about the time I showed up at his game when him and crack ho were there. I had fun remembering how empowered I felt that day. But then I let it go.
Today the obsession was weak. And to G-d I thank him for that.
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I believe you are a woman of G-d at this time.
Listen to that whisper, of the holy spirit, or G-d if you will, that will tell you what you need to do.
Be quiet, and LISTEN. Your higher power has good things in store for your life. Not always what you want, but what HIS will is, and what you need. Do not doubt this for a second.
This means alot what you say. I truly want to make G-d proud of who he is creating in me. Before anything else, I want G-d proud of me.
Well I made it through Day Two, of absolutely not looking for information on WH. I didn't check the cell phone, I didn't check son's email. I was flowing threw the day quite easily, but a little more sad about it and missing him.
I did have a moment of heavy tears, but just went through it, didn't last nearly as long and then moved on.
I don't know if I mentioned, but my accountant told me that since WH left on 5/14, and there was no attempt to come home once, I am considered the head of household and get all the tax benefits. Woo hoo.... We have filed an extension and she is really very supportive of helping me. I have always done our taxes and so at least I know what I am looking for and have done.
I did want to ask one question. My goal was to delay the legal separation as much as possible. My A pushed WH a bit to move forward, should I let him keep doing that or tell him to just leave it alone and see what WH does?
You mean to have it complete or drag out the negotiating of it.
As it is now, we are in the legal system and anything he does financially is not my responsibility and vice versa. It just means we aren't officially legally separated.
Then I will just leave it in my lawyer's hand and stay out of it.
It is the most magnificent day in the Pacific Northwest. I have nails on my porch to hang up flower baskets. And I bought the baskets last night. I think I will go get me some flowers and make my porch pretty.
It's days like these where I can look out and see G-ds majesticness. I'm so grateful for the blue skies, the sun and the healing that is going on in me. A true gift from G-d.
There is great hope in your Porch looking beautiful and full of blooms all summer long. The radiance though, will only be as brilliant as the effort you put into keeping the weeds out and the renewing water within.
I've been keeping up with you, even though I am still not posting (I'm making an exception today). I am so very proud of you for following through and moving on to Plan B. Yes, I know you may have felt you really had no choice, but I've watched a few people sit and waffle and do nothing and it only hurts them in the end.
You are doing a great job and I am absolutely certain that your future, whatever it is, will be bright.
Thanks Mojo, Please stay in touch. I really love it when I hear from you.
Well it's almost day 3 and I didn't look at email or phone log once. Yeah. It was a little harder today for some reason.
I had a therapy appt this afternoon. My counselor said I am blossoming. If felt nice. She knows I am still standing for my marriage and we talked about that other guy. It felt nice to stay in integrity and say I am not ready for anything like that because I want my H to come home.
I have completely turned him over to G-d. I love him so much and still miss him, but it's different. There is a peace inside. He did show up at my son's game tonight. He stayed up in the stands. Here is a G-d thing. I took pictures of him to see him up close. But I think I broke the disc inserting it into the download machine.
He stayed far away and left before we got up into the stands. I'm actually ok. He is with G-d and that's what is most important. While I keep walking and learning, G-d is working in my H. I have to just keep walking in FAITH and BELIEVING my M will be restored.
I'm glad you keep up with me. How come you don't post?
It was a fantastic day here in the NW wasn't it? Sorry I haven't been posting lately-the quarter is ending tomorrow (then spring break for me, YS had his this week) so it's been busy. To top it off, I started classes at WWU this week and decided to take TWO classes this quarter so I could intern during summer school.
I just got word that my house probably has sold. I am listening to an offer tonight and it's just devastated me. I am the one doing all this STUFF to get us out of our M and i don't want to.
What's up with that. Anyways, I've been on my knees, I'm pretty all cried out and I could just use a hug.
I can't imagine how you feel. Try to look at it as just one more step in your voyage. It's not fair, but shows how strong you really are. Can you imagine doing this 9 months ago?
What you are bing put through is not pretty, but you are handling it like the GODDESS you are.
I can't imagine how you feel. Try to look at it as just one more step in your voyage. It's not fair, but shows how strong you really are. Can you imagine doing this 9 months ago?
What you are bing put through is not pretty, but you are handling it like the GODDESS you are.
I know its hard, but look at what positive things go along with selling the house. How much time is now freed up by having this sale taken care of? It gives you even more time with your kids because you aren't expending energy on the old house.
You are getting a true fresh start.
Give yourself time to mourn a bit about the house, but don't wallow. Oh, how tempting it is to wallow.....
It's another step in your journey. There are probably bad memories there of the old M, so best to let them go. Prepare yourself for the new M when the time comes. Keep getting stronger like you have been doing, and good things will come.
Remember, you need to be strong and ready for whatever God has in store for you.
My parents moved us around all the time and I never had roots, it was so important to me to give my kids that. For so long I thought it was that house. I loved that house. I wanted my grandchildren to come home for holidays to that house and together my husband I would share in those memories. But, as this door closes I realized sometime tonight that those roots that mean so much to me are what come from me that G-d gives me.
G-d gives me gifts of tolerance, understanding, perserverance, commitment, etc that I get to pass onto my children and Tikum Olan, which is repair the world. I'm not going down without fighting for my M, but I am stepping aside and letting the true leader of this family have it to mold and guide along this journey.
I trust G-d, I trust this journey I am on. And you are so right TMTS, 9 mnoths ago, I would have wanted to kill myself, etc. But tonight, I just did what I did, listened to the offer, and then went to my AA meeting where I got to be acknowledged for my birthday month.
I am walking through it because G-d is holding my hand and is helping me. It's not what I am doing, it's because I have FAITH in G-d that as this door of my life closes, one day there will be something good.
Actually Mojo, I haven't done anything for the selling of the house, the contractors has done all the work. So, it's not really something taken off my plate. It's just one door more closer to my old marriage ending.
I needed your hugs tonight everyone. I felt them and really, where this might have killed me for hours upon hours and even days, I am doing relatively ok with it. I took care of myself by telling the contractor I needed to go to my AA meeting and I will go back over there tomorrow and crunch the numbers. They were drinking and I did NOT want to be around that.
I AM walking through this with dignity and grace, because I have FAITH that one day G-d will bless me with something. But until he does, I just keep on keeping on and reach to him for guidance.
Well I made a counter offer and probably they house is sold. I accepted just about everything, their realtor wanted a bigger cut, so I upped the cost of the house to make up that difference.
Contractor will get a hold of WH and get him to sign off on offer. If not, then he has a stipulation on there the house now becomes his responsibility. I can't imagine he will do that.
We will get enough equity out of the house to pay off our bills and nothing more. It's sad, 24 years and there nothing to show. Oh well. I am in G-ds hands.
I'm at work catching up in the quiet. Plan to go shopping for plants later and then probably spend the rest of the night at home, maybe alone.
I know it's what G-d wants, I know he needs me to trust him and just keep walking, but it's sad and it hurts.
My perspective on MY HOUSE was different than yours...
As soon as it was clear to me that my H was leaving me for the OW, I was deadset on moving out of OUR HOUSE...it was our DREAM HOUSE, the floor plan, every room planned to OUR LIKING..
It sold on the very first day that it was put on the market. That was the day my H contacted me to try to reconcile. He knew that by me putting that house that I LOVED on the market and then selling it that I WAS FINISHED with THAT CHAPTER of my life..that I was MOVING ON...
As far as I was concerned and I still feel that way, his AFFAIR TARNISHED THAT HOUSE AND THOSE MEMORIES...
That HOUSE still has a special place in my heart. I can ENVISION EACH ROOM..I'm really into that kind of stuff, designing, etc...but when he left, it was just a HOUSE, not a HOME...
This all goes to say...It was HELPFUL to me, to LET ALL OF THE PAST GO...I'm still like that. From PLAN B onto now, I'm a person that lives in the NOW with HOPES of the FUTURE. My H's affair changed me into this person. I ONLY HAVE TODAY AND TOMORROW. The PAST IS OVER..I'm LETTING IT GO.
Just like I LET HIM GO..the OLD HUSBAND that I HAD..I LET GO OF EVERYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH THAT OLD HUSBAND...
We do have a NEW RELATIONSHIP, a MIXTURE of some of the old but MOSTLY building on the NEW...
You have the best way of looking at stuff. Thanks,
At least your H tried to contact you. Mine just walked away and hasn't tried once. I know there was no other way but Plan B. I know that G-d wants me away from him and to just walk in FAITH and TRUST HIM.
And right now, my relationship with G-d and my FAITH in him is what will get me through this.
Today is the 7th day not checking emails and phone logs to see what WH is up to. In many ways it's peaceful, but as someone who likes control I have my MOMENTS.
I'm still having the hardest time sleeping. I went to the store to get Tylenol PM like everyone suggested, then met up with someone there who suggested this sleeping pill.
Well, I took her sugggestion and where you take 1, I took 2 the first night and 3 last night. I'm still NOT sleeping. I wake up during the night almost every hour now.
I hate sleeping alone. I think this is probably one of the worst things is not having him next to me to talk to at night or first thing in the morning. So I lay there and try and rack my brains about stuff. The regrets... which are totally USELESS.. Keeping my FAITH alive, which is really all I HAVE.
There were two stuffed animals that my H and I gave each other when we were dating. I decided to start sleeping with them and holding them tightly. As I hold onto my love for him.
I have begun writing in my journal again, putting to paper my thoughts, hope and dreams of my marriage being restored as well as honestly going to those places of truth and seeing what is there. I am walking through the darkness when it comes. I allow myself the luxury of crying and wishing, but it doesn't last for days anymore. It seems to just be short times. Some days are easiser than others.
I continue to recover personal and am bound and determined to allow G-d to heal me and work towards becoming what he wants me to be. I was so beaten down in spirit, mind and soul. That I don't believe there was anyother way for G-d to get my attention or bring me to my knees and be willing to do anything to become healthy.
I think I have come to a place of more acceptance of what is happening, moving on with my life, seeing what I can and can't do and learning how to proceed forward with the help of G-d. The opportunity of almost losing my season tickets and truly being in a place of letting G-d have it, gave me the experience of letting my H go and leaving him with G-d. It's harder for sure, but I know there is NO OTHER WAY.
My children and I continue to bond closer. We went to the movies over the weekend and saw 21. They see I am still hurting as well as I tell them I am, but I also tell them I love there father dearly and want our marriage. And that no matter what it looks like, I am fighting for our family. But that sometimes you have to let something go in order to get it back.
I have NO IDEA what is going on is WH's world. I am completely dark or as dark can be. I would be lying if I said I want to know. The urge to check the emails and phone log is there, bad. But I am trusting G-d to leave it alone and let him alone. It's just so hard.
My heart is breaking for Luna. I hear the sadness and unsurity of her situation in what to do and I am so afraid that will be me in two years. What I do know is that if it comes, I will walk through it because G-d will help me.
What I have learned the most through this is, EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING, can be taken away from you by G-d, because he is the one who gives it to you in the first place. But the ONE THING, that can NEVER be taken is my relationshiop with Him. I can only GIVE that AWAY, and for that I am grateful because it was HIM who got me through this by you all, and so many other ways. I needed G-d to become most important to me. I don't take my relationship with him for granted, I am just grateful he didn't give up on me.
It's not even 5 yet, I am on vacation, maybe now I can fall back asleep and get some more rest.
I have been reading that thread about how much is too much sex and I just want to smash something right now. This brings up a very sensitive subject with me. In my sitch, I was the one who always wanted sex. Everyday would have been what I wanted. I wanted an adventurous life with my H and he was the one who pushed me away and was more reserved in bed.
I tried for years and years to work on this, but there was something in play for my H, he was too tired, too stressed, couldn't concentrate etc. This is by far my highest EN. And he refused at many times during out M to meet this need. And finally, while he was having his affair, he would put me off telling me I wasn't safe or he couldn't trust me, the whole time getting his needs met, while he left me struggling internally and mentally. I learned to just deal with it and survive the only way I knew how. Volunteer and get my mind off of it.
The fact that he went out and found someone else, walked away from our M for her and has not given me one chance to work on our M has crippled me in so many ways, but this has to be the most hurtful of all.
He took what was something I offered at any time for him, in anyway and threw it back in my face saying whatever excuse he had, and then finds a low class, white trash crack ho with hepatits C and says she is more than me.
...What I have learned the most through this is, EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING, can be taken away from you by G-d, because he is the one who gives it to you in the first place.
Do you really believe that G-d is responsible for EVERYTHING that gets taken away from you? I think many of us are guilty of thinking this way, when in fact, sometimes, things happen by our own or someone else's choices. I believe G-d will ALLOW things to happen. Sometimes He even removes His hand when we sin.
In your situation however, I truly don't believe that G-d had anything to do with your WH leaving because your WH had the free will to make his own choices. I DO think that G-d has used this situation to bring you closer to Him and has intervened in ways that let you know it had to be Him.
You going into Plan B just allows you to get even closer to G-d because you're having to rely even MORE on Him. Taking the focus off of WH and moving your eyes to G-d can only help you.
I know it's hard and it hurts like heck sometimes, but Queenie, you WILL come out of this whole.
Do you really believe that G-d is responsible for EVERYTHING that gets taken away from you?
Maybe I said it the wrong way, but yes in a way I do.
For me, G-d knows my life, he knows how I was dying inside and living a life that was destructive. I was unhealthy, angry, selfish, and miserable. But I could never understand why. I loved my husband, I loved my kids and pretty much loved my life.
What was missing was my relationship with G-d, so yes I believe that G-d took him away to reach me, have me hit botton on how I was living my life and watch me struggle and learn to grow and become who he ultimately wants.
I took my M for granted, I didn't have G-d as the most important thing in my M, and I know that I was not a good wife.
Part of me is just plain scared that who WH lives with now is so much more understanding, loving, caring, and giving, beyond anything I could ever be. And I don't stand a chance.
But all of that is out of my hands, I have no way of know what she is really like and I just get to keep walking in FAITH, that I will come out of this WHOLE.
That's really all I want is to be someone who is whole and serves G-d with all my heart and soul. A relationshiop would be a bonus, I am made to be with someone. but that's a long way off I imagine.
I am so proud of you for protecting yourself and your boys from the negative influence of your WH in his very wayward state by going into Plan B.
I know the house issue was hard, and it really stinks to be the only one taking care of the "grown up" issues that happen in real life. But I can see that there are blessings too-you are not haunted by the memories of that house. Your boys have peace at your apartment that you have made a cozy home for them.
I would like to offer a possible clarification on what you maybe meant-from what I've come to understand about what God is doing when terrible things happen in our lives, whether we experience them because of the choices of others, or because we live in a fallen world.
I don't believe that God took your WH away from you. That would mean God is the one who planned your WH to commit a sin that God stated-very clearly in His word-is against His character and His commandments.
But, because He is God, and He knew that this would happen. God never steps in and stops our free will. He wants us to choose to be in a relationship with Him freely. God knew this would happen. He knew your WH would do this, just like He knew mine would. And,in His great love for you and His knowledge that you would need a deeper relationship with Him to get through this time, God has turned this into something that has good in it for you. You have found your heart in Him and found your own voice, strength and "goddess-ness". (I think I just made up a new word).
It's good because YOU chose-through YOUR free will-to turn to God and find Him as your rescuer. Just like the shepherd in the 23rd Psalm. It's His love in you that gives you strength.
Hey JT, Is it going to fit into your plans to meet sometime this week or maybe on Sunday?
I would really love to see you again. Are you all healed up from the cold?
I hate Plan B, but there was no other way. NONE. And so I have G-d protecting me and guiding me. He is really all I need right now anyways.
Yes, I am making a home for the boys, and with moving the furniture around it opens up a little more possibility for pictures or decorating or possibly a quilt. Not sure yet. Going to let G-d take me there.
I don't know JT. I knew that my H was a hurt human being who loved me so deeply once. Part of me feels like I failed G-d by not reaching for G-d instead of looking at outside things to fill me up. Remember, I was dying inside as well. I think G-d set up situations where WH and I were forced to choose and he chose one way and I sought G-d.
I love my H so much and it's so sad just sitting back and wondering what's happening. I know I shouldn't but I do. Today just seems like one of those days when I am a little more sad. I went exercising, went to work, went to tan, brought dinner home and am sitting here. I have chosen some fabrics to maybe begin quilting, but I can't bring myself to do it. I used to lvoe quilting so much.
My heart in sad today, just sad. I know G-d is there, I know I will get through it, but the feelings are nonetheless still there.
I keep wondering when I will stop loving him so much, but you know what, I might never and knowing that he is with someone else just plain hurts me deeply.
Yes, I have work to do on me, and I trust G-d with my life, but I can't help thinking that had a been a better servant, I wouldn't have lost my H.
ONE WHOLE WEEK, I made it one whole week without looking online for him, checking son's email or using the calling log. ONE WHOLE WEEK.
It's been harder the last couple of days and my spirits have really been down, but I just sat through it and prayed and wrote.
My OS had a game tonight and he won 13-6. He had 3 goals and one assist. WH showed up for the first time at this ones game. I felt him immediately, he stayed for part of the 3rd quarter and then left, when my YS got out of practice. He was all the way at the top of the stadium on the other side of the field and I saw him immediately. Why is that? He didn't bring her, and he didn't get to see the 4th quarter which was when our son really shined.
Ok, Miss Mimi, someone just called you the Plan B Queen. How am I doing so far. How will I know if I am doing a great Plan B?
WOW a week without checking in, Good job Queenie!! I know the temptations!! You are getting so much stronger on that! Congratulations to OS! Sounds like a great athlete.
You're a better woman than me Queenie. Had I done Plan B, I KNOW I wouldn't have made it because I'm a snooper by nature (it's in my genes). But then I guess I would have had MB behind me daily reminding me not to go there.
I'm so proud of you! Stand strong. We're here holding up up.
I hope it brings you more and more peace with each day that passes.
As I read the stories of ongoing plan A's when the WS is still actively in the affair and the transition to plan B's I am truly humbled at the strength I see here. I didn't have to do either a plan A or B really, and I often wonder if it had been necessary, would I have been up to the challenge or would I have just given up and divorced.
Guess I'll never know.
I'm glad that you are finding the strength to continue. One day at a time!
When I stopped snooping and communicating at all with my WS, my days got a little easier. I still think about him constantly and it nearly kills me to think of him with OW, but I'd be back in the psych ward if I didn't have my intermediary person to go to. She communicates with him if I need to let him know something and vice versa.
I had been snoop free for several weeks and starting to feel better. Then I checked his email and got walloped again. Fluctuating between despair and rage. My advise is close eyes and ears to WH!
Thanks for your support. It helps. It does get easier, but then there are those days it's just so sad. My AA meeting last night was really good, it was on the chapter in the big book called Two Wives.
I think I get jealous of others on here that when they went into Plan B, their WH tried to contact them or mess them up. Mine hasn't that I know of, ONE BIT. It's like I just have ceased to exist in his world. That hurts, but I'll deal with it. After knowing someone for almost 30 years, it just hurts that he can just be done with me.
The ONLY HOPE I have that he might be trying is him showing up at the boy's games. Up until Plan B, he made no attempt whatsoever to see them. Since Plan B, he has seen my younger son at least twice, and come to the stadium for games. He is across the stadium and I can see him, but he can see me, that's even if he even notices.
Oh well - I miss him lots, but know that these feelings pass with time and I feel strong again. It's that darn rollercoaster ride and I hadn't them before too.
Thanks Kag for posting - I really appreciate your support.
You are so right, I do not want to go there and see what he is up to. He is sick, destructive and dangerous to me and my heart right now.
It's sad, for sure. But he is the one choosing this, not me. And each day, well I just walk through it and hope that it's a good one.
I still sometimes just can't believe this is all real. I wish I was just in a horrible dream and one day I will wake up and it will be over and he will be home safe, sound and healing.
Sometimes I wonder if I am handling this better than most. I had been to h@ll and back with my medically compromised son. I know there is light at the end of the tunnel. So knowing the wonderful stages of grief this latest trauma it doesnt seem too weird. Right now I am looping through denial, despair, and rage oh maybe a little revenge as well. I know acceptance isn't too far off...
The denial is that you just can't believe who this person has become...does not compute. The despair is for the person you once knew and the rage is for the current martian WH.
The denial is that you just can't believe who this person has become...does not compute. The despair is for the person you once knew and the rage is for the current martian WH.
So very very true.. I've also been riding this emotional feedback loop myself..
The denial is that you just can't believe who this person has become...does not compute. The despair is for the person you once knew and the rage is for the current martian WH.
In a way it's like they have alzheimers and they are just gone. Forever? I have know way of knowing. For now, it's just painful watching it go on and having everyone around me telling me just get over it. He's scum, he's the loser, etc.
I can't believe he is this person and I won't ever believe it was for the best. I'll just learn to live with it and move on and be what G-d wants.
Why can't I just stop loving him? Why did I have to fall so much in love with him that I would fight for this not really knowing if he will come home or not.
{{{{{{{{{{James}}}}}}} I know you are hurting too. I know you are being strong and building a life for yourself like everyone says, but I know that pain of sadness that still inside and I feel for you.
Do you ever wonder if they think they have dug themselves into such a big hole they can't get out. I mean everyone...my family, my friends, his family all despise him. How could WH make his way back even if he returned into his body and became the person I once knew and loved?
I just finished packing up all his stuff and moving it into the garage. Trying to clear my house of the negative energy! Trying to make it our place, my boys and me. Removing anything that elicits a painful memory.
The denial is that you just can't believe who this person has become...does not compute. The despair is for the person you once knew and the rage is for the current martian WH.
In a way it's like they have alzheimers and they are just gone. Forever? I have know way of knowing. For now, it's just painful watching it go on and having everyone around me telling me just get over it. He's scum, he's the loser, etc.
I can't believe he is this person and I won't ever believe it was for the best. I'll just learn to live with it and move on and be what G-d wants.
Why can't I just stop loving him? Why did I have to fall so much in love with him that I would fight for this not really knowing if he will come home or not.
{{{{{{{{{{James}}}}}}} I know you are hurting too. I know you are being strong and building a life for yourself like everyone says, but I know that pain of sadness that still inside and I feel for you.
This is so true. I don't recognize the person my husband has become.
I want to brag just for a moment. I completed my AA 9th step last night and started on my 10th. My sponsor spoke with me for about an hour and a half, asking me many questions and listening to me. She told me that I am no longer the person who walked through the doors almost 11 months ago. I have changed in so many ways.
And she is right. I live in a world where G-d leads me now and I feel safe with him. Yes, I have those down moments, I cry and wish things were different, but I feel alive inside and just know when those dark moments happen, it will pass, I just have to feel the pain and keep walking.
The promises of AA have materialized in my life and I am SO GRATEFUL to G-d, but I also acknowledge that I did the work too because G-d worked in my life.
I't an amazing day in the PNW and this GARDEN GODDESS is planting those flowers.
You think I would know that by now. My son is an example, he is a miracle. The doc's said he wouldn't walk, talk and would be severely MR. He is a bright, happy, soccer playing 9 year-old. I NEVER gave up on him. I am not sure why I am giving up on my M. I almost feel like it is the right path to do so.....?
I'm very proud of you girl!! You are a person who has come a long way, and right in front of our very screens. Keep up the good work - you are my inspiration.
I NEVER gave up on him. I am not sure why I am giving up on my M. I almost feel like it is the right path to do so.....?
If you are truly asking, you are asking the wrong people. Ask G-d and wait for an answer. It's been almost a year since D-day for me. There are days that I would LOVE to just have it all OVER, but then I remember that my best thinking got me here and I am healing from the messes I created in my life. G-d's word is he hates divorce, so that is something he NEVER desires or says is the right path. What he says and Johnstwin reminds me of this all the time, is that he will take this and turn it into good.
As a BS you have the right to say that you don't want your M and can walk away, but Mark mentioned this to me, can you honestly say you can walk away for the rest of your life and be ok with that choice. No judgement on our part, just getting you to see your own truth and path. I will support you with whatever you choose.
Without a doubt giving up on our M are the way easier route. Not to mention in my case, not giving up could be a futile attempt. I just have to walk in FAITH every single flipping day and pray that what I am doing is what G-d wants and that one day, the pain will be gone and my future will be unfolding to the blessings G-d has for me on the other side.
If it wasn't for my growing relationship with G-d and his working through all of you on here, I would simply be dead. I will NEVER forget those dark nights and days when I couldn't imagine a life without my H. I can now. I don't want it, but with time, I can.
Today I was reminded why I need to stay out of the drama of WH. The person who works at the store bumped into me and told me how happy he seems, blah blah.. I think a sledge hammer wouldn't have hurt so much. He was bragging about how he is making the most money he ever did, funny I didn't see it on the paycheck he deposited into my account this afternoon. In fact it was less than two weeks ago.
But my point, it sent me on a tailspin of pain and sadness. I had to work EXTREMELY hard to not let it take me down and it took a long time. The good news is, it wasn't as bad, I recognized it immediately and began working at correcting it. So much so that I for the FIRST TIME in my LIFE, I took my car to a car wash place and washed it myself. I missed a few spots, but Believer, this GODDESS made her car shine.
Chai, my inspiration and is knowing that I have some many of you on here who care about ME and pray for my M to be restored. I just don't feel so alone then.
Hi Queenie I know you do not know me but I always wanted to say hello!! I am always looking for a new post on your thread! I have been reading for a long time and did not want to post until I started reading your thread as well as hopeandpray, Kag's,and LASunshinegirl. You have no idea how you girls have changed my life!! I am a FWW and it is very hard to take 100% responsibility of our choices, we always want to blame it on our spouse too. Well, I was like that until I came to MB. By reading your story (all of you) I have come to really understand that it was my choice. Even though my H has part on the situation our M was before the A, that is not a justification for what I did. That very understanding has brought me healing. I have come to understand just in part by reading your story what a BS goes through. I have laughed with you, I have cried with you, I have prayed with you and for you, my heart goes to all of you when you are down. You girls have helped me to be humble, and to appreciate my H more. I was always complaining to God and telling him that my H did not awknowledge me any more, that he was not affectionate to me any more and bla,bla,bla. Until the day that I was reading LASunshinegirl's story I started to cry and felt unworthy that my H is still with me. Now, the first thing that I do when I wake up is thank God for my H. I love him so much!!! I wish he could believe that!! Well, I wanted to say hi to you girls, and to let you know that there are a lot of people out there that do not post on a regular basis but that are reading your stories. You are making a difference on peoples lives!! I admire you all, for all that you have been through!! You have endure sooo much!! but at the end you will overcome this. Remember; Comit your way to the LORD; trust in him and HE will do this. Psalm 37
Thanks Angie....hope you don't mind Queenie that we are temp hijacking your thread
My life has been very challenging, first with my son and his many, many surgeries and close calls. And now this. I have grown in strength and wisdom along the way. What I have learned most is to try and have faith that it is for a reason and to reach out for help from family, friends and even emailing 'strangers' who seem to become friends. This latest trauma have brought me even closer to my family and friends. I am not good at asking for help and being less than in control. This has been a HUGE lesson for me.
I just think I may be on a different trajectory and leaving my 20 year M behind. I am grateful to SH for pulling me through the first 6 months and KNOWING I gave it my all through plan A and recovery(false). I can leave in peace. It isn't what I want but seems to be what the universe is telling me. Just like I certaintly didn't want a son with multiple medical needs but there it was and I moved through it and got to the other side of seeing it as all good.
I am so glad you were able to embrace MB. I think maybe the WH side just don't get it(sorry guys) My WH is HATES MB. He read all the books and think they are cr@p...his situation is unique...HA
You can only imagine what your post has done for me. Being in AA, the 12th step is carrying the message to others. If I and many others have helped you with understanding and recovering your M, then G-d is truly working in my life by blessing and helping other people and that's what I hoped for.
Please keep posting and telling me about yourself and how you are learning and growing and creating your M to what you want it to be. I'm am so glad you are at home working on your M. And more importantly, so is G-d. Your H has been through a lot and I wish you the best and doing the work to completely recover your M. I'm glad you are reading and opening up to us. You have a wealth of knowledge that can help us BS and give us hope that one day our WW's will come home.
[quote] Remember; Comit your way to the LORD; trust in him and HE will do this. Psalm 37 [p/quote] There is NO OTHER way for me.. NONE....
And that's why I am going through this. I truly with all my heart and soul believe that G-d would have continued hunting me down until I sought him out. Fortunately or unfortunately it took this deep of a sadness and destruction to bring me back to his fold. But in his fold I stay and when you and someone else tells me I am helping them, well, it just reiforces that G-d has a purpose for my life and I am letting him guide me.
Even with OUR SITUATIONS look totally hopeless and bleak. We can still have OUR RELATIONSHIP with G-d and walk in FAITH that whatever he HAS PLANNED for us is better than we can ever imagine. You know, you have experienced it before.
If you want your M, then walk in FAITH. We don't know what we don't know and we just have to keep walking, ESPECIALLY when it looks the worst.
I have to somehow with G-d finish this out keeping FAITH that one day my M can be restored. I truly believe my WH is on the path of self-destruction and I can't live with myself that I gave up on him, like everyone else. I just can't.
As you know, G-d will give us what we need and we just need to rely on him with ALL OUR HEART AND SOUL. It's the ONLY WAY.
Hey I just wanted to say I've been watching ya. Thanks for your offer for support back on my thread. I am back now. And joining you in the "Plan B" club.
You have been doing so good in your Plan B mode. I am amazed at your growth through all of this. You do remind me of me. You throw EVERYTHING out there. The good, the bad, and the ugly. It was one of the reasons I was unsure about posting still. I have a way of letting it all hang out, IYKWIM....
Anyway, keep up the good work. I am glad you got your front porch so beautiful. Now it is a reflection of you....
I'm glad you are back, open and front. It's so hard to really know what to do, but there are so many on here supporting us. They can't all be wrong.
This whole SITCH humbled me to the ground to where there was no pride and no more left to go down. This is my M I am fighting for, I may still lose, but I am going down with a fight. And I would love for my WH to find me on here and read about what has happened to me and the growth. But that's not my story today, so I get to just keep walking in FAITH.
Wh showed up at YS's game for about a quarter, actually not even the whole quarter, and I honestly think he got chased off. He was gone at halftime and I didn't see him the rest of that game or my OS's game. I wonder what happened. Oh that's right, Plan B, I don't get to know.
And actually that's just fine with me. I really struggled today emotionally with it, but I have been through this sadness enough times to keep focusing, change what I am doing and let time go by. And sure enough, as soon as my boys were playing, I was busy scorekeeping and happy that I am in their lives. Not to mention it was beyond magnificent weather today and my tan is glowing again.
My porch isn't totally finshed, but it will be tomorrow and then the bright flowers will be a reflection of me.
I'm going to go visit your thread and catch up on ya. N2F, we really need to hold each other up now.
I'm going to go visit your thread and catch up on ya. N2F, we really need to hold each other up now.
Amen to that one sista....and we also need to get Serenity here. Honestly, I think at this point she needs to tell her WS about her knowing about the emails. I don't know how she does it. I have seen my WS emails with her and they are so beyond painful, I cannot bear them. It takes MAJOR withdrawls from my love bank....
Anyway, you HAVE grown tremendously. I am proud of you. And who knows what will happen, but you will survive either way....
Yes, we need Serenity here with us as well. We have to keep each other held and supported no matter what.
Today was one of those days where I almost didn't want to survive. I miss him so very much, I miss having a complete family. But it was just my stinkin thinkin and I let it run it's course and then shook my head and put on some hard rock and roll in my head.
I have grown and changed. I am not that worthless piece of crap that came to these boards almost a year ago. I still have a long way to go to think that I deserve better than WH, but I also don't deserve his absolute disgusting behavior of treating me like crap. If nothing else, I am a human being and just as common courtesy should be treated better.
I can not even imagine what reading those emails would be like. I never had to face those. My WH TM back and forth with OW and it was my boys' who saw what they wrote. It made them sick.
Only G-d knows what will happen and I have to keep remembering that, one day at a time or simply one second at a time when it's hurting so bad.
I am not that worthless piece of crap that came to these boards almost a year ago.
((((Queenie))))
(Not sitting here shaking her head)....
Ummm...honey, you were NOT a piece of crap a year ago either....know that one. I may not have known you, but NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE deserves this. and yes, you DESERVE better than what you have gotten and are continue to get.
Now, you need your rest. You must sleep. How is that going for you?/? I know you were having problems, is it getting any better??
Me, I am exhausted. I need to get some sleep myself....
Sleep, still not going well at all. The good thing I was on vacation this week and so I could just fall back asleep, but it's back to work on Monday.
N2F, I didn't know that I was a person who deserved to exist on this earth after the A was found out and WH just walked away with not ONE CHANCE. It devastated me beyond imagination. I literally crawled back from a death in so many ways.
Whether I deserved it or not, can't say, what I didn't realize was how much control WH had over me and my thoughts about myself. I seriously think he was abusing me in ways. I even mentioned it to him once. But alas, he was having the A by then and so he didn't really care.
G-d has worked very hard through people on here and in me to get me to realize that I have a right to live and it's ok for me to be happy. I didn't know that my self-esteem was so in the gutter because I just wanted to make my H happy. I love him, I want our M, but it's not my job to make him happy. Just like it wasn't his job to make me happy. That had to come from my relationship with G-d.
Sleep well, I am not ready for it yet, or I will be up in an hour.
I'm struggling with sleep problems too Queenie. I hope you are able to rest before work on Monday. You are so right when you say that God works through so many people here on the MB board. The advice and guidance here has helped so much. It is a great comfort to me to see that other people understand what we are going through.
Yes, I had a horrible night sleeping. I usually only sleep about two hours at most at a time and then wake up and fall back asleep. But the challenge with that, is that I get the most nightmares that way.
Yes, not only do they understand, but they can walk us through how to get through it and give us something to do.
Our time will come when we need to give back to people. Be prepared, they will need us as those who help us now, we need them so much.
I'm with you and ((Not))... just in a different sort of way.
I worry about your sleeping problems, they're not good for your health. Not to get personal/pushy but, when was the last time you saw your doctor? Not sleeping could be because of the current situation or it could be caused by something else. Whatever it is I know for health/sanity reasons you need some good sleep!!! Talk to your doctor about it, please!?!
What sport is it that your boys are playing? Lacrosse? My daughter is playing lacrosse and is even getting sometime in the varsity games and she's a freshmen ;-) Yep gotta brag. Ok, not to leave the other two out. My "shy" one is performing in the middle school version of Grease, and my son is continually amazing me in his grades- at his age I could careless and did really bad and so far his sophmore year he's had straight A's. Unfortunately for him he loves ALL sports and just isn't athletic enough, he tries though!! for the 4th straight year he tried out for a sport and didn't make the team, talk about a commitment. I feel bad for him, but after one day he moved on and does not let it get him down.
Jeesh, sorry for the threadjack! Ok, thinking of a different word beside sorry.... hmmm I "acknowldge" that this isn't my thread, but... something I wanted to share with YOU. You are definately welcome to post anything and everything on my thread if/when you want ;-)
I still like the name Queenie so much better! More fitting of a Queen! I call SMB "My Empress" but she is a sexy mama bear too.
FWIW....my sleeping patterns have always been erratic. I go for weeks with only one hour of sleep a night. Not so good! But something thats helped me... I learned that focus and concentration for 30 minutes and deep, slow breathing during that time can allow my body to feel very rested..I generally lie down in bed and focus on a spot on the ceiling or on a candle flame, my concentration is on my breating deeply and to a perfect rhythm. I often count to ten as I breath in and count to ten as I breath out. After about 30 minutes of this I am so relaxed, actual sleep doesn't seem to matter.
I hate when stress and fear cause my sleepless nights, and sometimes they do, but I still find prayer is my best solution to these times.
How does your daughter like playing lacrosse. My boys absolutely love it. I am toying with coaching girls lacrosse in a couple of years when my youngest is out of school. Who knows.
TST,
I will try that. I will really try anything. The sleeping pills scare me because I took too many and I went back to sleep this morning until 2:00 and was in a very somber mood.
I cleaned my kitchen really hard to work off some of that somber, and went to an AA meeting, but it's still there.
I have a Plan B question. I am remaining totally dark, and WH has not tried to contact me in anyway at all, except for showing up at the kids' games. It dawned on me that I am having a reaction to him being there. Am I nuts, or is that possible, and could that be WH way of trying to see me?
I generally keep score at my YS's game, but I have only done it at my OS's game the last two times. Am I looking for something where there is nothing or could this seeing him have me reacting and I need to take more preventative measures of seeing him, even from across and at the top of the stadium.
Don't take too many pills. Only the prescribed dose. Do some journeling. It is quieter and less busy than the computer. I know how it sucks. I have suffered from insomnia for YEARS. It is hard to do. I know.
Now my vote on the games....hmmm...did he attend many games before???
My vote is that he is there to see you. I know they say this is a fix, but to me it is not much of one. of course, you are looking you GODDESS best during these aren't you????
Anyway, I say, try not to look for him but do not boycott the games altogether. It is harder to do a COMPLETELY DARK Plan B when kids are involved. Just the way it is. But you can do everything you can to advoid him, and not let it effect you. I know that is hard, but you can look at this way, by seeing him at these games it will remind you that you still have love for him altogether and that you need to protect that love at all costs....except at the cost of your kids.
Anyway, get some sleep love....sweet dreams....and may tomorrow be a much better GODDESS day for the both of us......
I'm so glad you are here tonight. Oh yes, I am looking my GODDESS best, especially last night, in my tight pants and black short shirt. Many comments on how much weight I have lost not to mention I had spent the day in the sun and had a glow about myself.
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did he attend many games before???
That's not really a fair question because the season was just beginning when I went into Plan B. Actually I just checked and he missed three games before he started showing up at these. I do know that he could show up at the games and still be hidden if he wanted to, not up where I can see him.
As Mimi says, I need to stop thinking about him and I am working on it, almost two weeks since I checked the email or phone log. But I want to make sure that I am doing the best possible Plan B by staying completely dark and I have to wonder if him seeing me is breaking it a little. The funny thing is I don't go looking for him. I just feel him and he there. There is this connection and it's just there.
Love him, oh gosh. There is so much love for him that it's scary and almost unwarranted.
Journeling is a great idea. I am going to do that just as soon as Desparate Housewives is over.
L2F - only if a person gets their sense of value from other people rather than from God who created us to have a relationship with HIM. Change the purposes of God and God will allow us to see what results from substituting our will for His will.
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I'll just have to pray harder.
Why is that, Queenie? Is God deaf or is it you simply want Him to do whatever it is you want done? Are you maybe thinking of Him as the "fairy Godfather" who exists to do our bidding and to fulfill our wishes, or as the Sovereign LORD of the Universe and WE exist, individually, FOR Him?
Referring back to L2F's comment about "control," I wonder who had the real control when Eve said to Adam, "Here, honey, I know best(her eyes were open to 'good and evil' at that point), take a bite of this juicy fruit I found, you will LIKE IT and I am still ALIVE and desirable!"
God "altered" the relationship between husbands and wives as a result of the "Fall." Today, we have been very busy trying to usurp God's authority in a whole host of areas, the marital relationship being not the least under attack.
Is God deaf or is it you simply want Him to do whatever it is you want done?
No, been on that road and done it totally. If there is one thing that I have learned through all this is that I don't want my will, I need to walk in G-ds will for peace and serenity.
I just have a hard time knowing what his will is for me, because my will gets in the way and blocks him out.
Praying harder is seeking his will for me. And learning to accept whatever he is wanting for me. I have longer moments of it, but then something happens or a thought comes into my head and I go down that self will road.
We may not have learned, but I for one am still trying to just walk in G-ds will. For me I am grateful for my spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection.
There is no doubt I have much to learn in my relationship with G-d, but today I can admit that and not feel like I am stupid or bad. I'm just learning and open to help.
I think there are many of us on here who receive the daily emails from Charlene Cares. I know that somedays the message being sent is absolutely what I need to hear. Now reading what I just wrote above, here is the message today.
Wow...
Just because He doesn't lead us on the shortest path, doesn't mean it isn't the right path. - - - - -
Is This the Way?
"When Pharaoh let the people go, God did not lead them on the road through the Philistine country, though that was shorter. For God said, "If they face war, they might change their minds and return to Egypt." So God led the people around by the desert road toward the Red Sea." Exodus 13:17-18
Can you imagine the Israelites confusion and consternation when Moses led them out of Egypt on the path he did? This was not the shortest path to their Promised Land. Why were they going this way? But the Israelites didn't see what God could see. God saw the obstacles and the problems and knew they were not ready to face them yet. So He led them on a different path.
Maybe you are on a longer route than what you would want. Maybe God hasn't given you the shortest route to your restoration and you are confused. But we have to remember that God sees what we don't. He sees not only the end of our journey, but all of the obstacles and detours in our way. Just because He doesn't lead us on the shortest path, doesn't mean it isn't the right path. It is His loving hand that leads us and our job is to trust and follow. Perhaps He is protecting us from a battle we are not yet ready to fight. Perhaps He is taking us on a detour to avoid some snare the enemy has laid in our way. Maybe there are things we have yet to learn. Maybe He is waiting until He has both hearts ready for His miracle. We can't know what lies ahead or what the future will bring. But God does.
"By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night. Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people." Exodus 13:21-22
God did not leave the Israelites alone in their curious journey. He went ahead of them to guide and direct them. The pillar of cloud and the pillar of fire did not leave its place in front of the people. Wouldn't it be great to have this kind of clear direction? How easy it would be to see the right road and avoid the pitfalls. We may not have the same kind of roadmap that God provided for the Israelites but we do have the same kind of guidance. The Bible is our map and our guide to show us the right way to go. God's Word is our instruction manual and in it He has promised to never leave us nor forsake us, just as He promised the Israelites.
I often envy the prophets in the Old Testament. They were always getting signs. The burning bush, the fire from Heaven, the pillar of cloud and light, the parting of the Red Sea and the Jordan, the mouths of the lions and the flames of the furnace. Signs like that would make our walk pretty easy wouldn't it? But these prophets didn't have the Bible where they could read of God's promises and discern the right path. We want signs, too and sometimes God is good and gracious and gives them. But often our journey is made by the light of His Word alone. If we do what the Bible says, then we can know for sure that what we are doing is right.
"Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites to turn back and encamp near Pi Hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea. They are to encamp by the sea, directly opposite Baal Zephon. Pharaoh will think, 'The Israelites are wandering around the land in confusion, hemmed in by the desert.' And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this." Exodus 14:1-4
If you were an Israelite wouldn't you wonder what the heck was going on? First Moses takes you on a circuitous route, longer than it needs to be, and now he is telling you to turn back? What kind of leader is this? He was the kind that listened to God and obeyed. Moses knew that God's plans were greater than his. And although he didn't understand why God was taking them this way, he did obey.
Why did God have the Israelites turn back? Is it because He wanted to make their life more difficult? No. God had a plan to bring glory to His name. God had a plan to show the Egyptians that He was the Lord. Do you think that maybe God has a plan for your family, too? Or do you think He just wants to make your life more difficult? God does have a plan for your family and His plan is to bring good to you and glory to Him. It might seem that we are traveling a strange path - plowing ahead, turning back, taking some detours. But God sees the road ahead and He sees just what needs to be in place to bring about His best for you.
"As Pharaoh approached, the Israelites looked up, and there were the Egyptians, marching after them. They were terrified and cried out to the LORD. They said to Moses, "Was it because there were no graves in Egypt that you brought us to the desert to die? What have you done to us by bringing us out of Egypt? Didn't we say to you in Egypt, 'Leave us alone; let us serve the Egyptians'? It would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the desert!" Exodus 14:10-12
We know how this story ends so we marvel at the Israelites lack of trust. But are we so different? Do we not grumble and complain when circumstances come against us? Do we not sometimes doubt that God will protect us? Don't we worry and fret when our back is against the sea and the army is bearing down from the other side? Even when we have seen His mighty hand in our lives in the past, as the Israelites did, we sometimes think there has to be a better way. There is no way but God. There is no circumstance that He cannot change in an instant. There is no situation too difficult for Him. We may right now be in the middle of the same trouble the Israelites faced. But God will make a way for us, just as He did for the Israelites, even if it takes a miracle to do it. He will open up a path through our Red Sea even when it seems an impossibility in the natural realm.
"Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the LORD drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided, and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left." Exodus 14:21-22
The Great Way-Maker had done it again. He had taken a hopeless situation, raised His hand, and worked a miracle. Don't ever think that He doesn't want to do the same for you. He goes before you to light the way and behind you to protect you. He guides and directs you with His Word. He knows the path to take and leads you in the right direction and when we come to a place where there seems to be no way out, He makes a way. I read something one time that has really helped me on my journey. "I may not know what my tomorrow holds, but I do know the one who is holding it." This, dear stander, is trust.
"But the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left. That day the LORD saved Israel from the hands of the Egyptians, and Israel saw the Egyptians lying dead on the shore. And when the Israelites saw the great power the LORD displayed against the Egyptians, the people feared the LORD and put their trust in him and in Moses his servant." Exodus 14:29-31
The homework is supposed to be getting done when he gets home from school. Evidently that is a lie.
So, now I am signing him up to stay after school 4 days a week in homework club.
He has lacrosse practice from either 6 to 8 or 7 to 9.
As for prioritizing, I would say first it's his cell phone and text messaging, then xbox, then computer. If I take away the computer he will loose all contact with his father and I am not sure that is really an ok thing to do.
I would recommend you talk to his coach and advise him that your son will be at practice, but is not to play in any games until his grades improve. It's both the carrot and the stick! If the coach will not help you, you don't want your son on that team anyhow!
It was his choice not to keep up on his work, he needs consequences.........
I would remove all electronics as well and let those return as you deem necessary! Maybe as a rewards system for positive resulting grades.
But whatever you do make sure he understands what "HE" MUST do earn things back.
Can I have a second to vent please. It just makes me so frustrated that here we are 11 months today is D-day and my kids have not spent two nights away from me the whole time.
I am the one dealing with their anger, their attitude, their sadness, their teenage stuff, their school work problems, running them around for EVERYTHING, while WH is off screwing around and having the time of his life.
Please tell me one day he will wake up and at least be sorry he abandoned us.
Ok, I had my moment. Back to killing the teenagers. I talked to my son and his attitude and lack of respect is so frustrating to me. He treats me just like his dad did.
Can I have a second to vent please. It just makes me so frustrated that here we are 11 months today is D-day and my kids have not spent two nights away from me the whole time.
Please tell me one day he will wake up and at least be sorry he abandoned us.
Do you have any family they could spend time with? Or friends that you trust them with? I'd almost be in the same boat, but there are friends that they go with occasionally. Not all three at once. Usually middle child is the one that stays at a friends house.
I thought about the kids not being with dad much... but you know... I DO NOT WANT them anywhere near pondscum!!! So if they can't spend the night away from me, so be it. Dad's loss!!
I second and third the taking away of electronics. That's when cell phones come in handy, the kids love them. If they become disrespectful or refuse chores etc... I confiscate them. I hate having to hold something over their head. I wish they'd do what they are supposed to do and not need to be threatened... but they're teens!! -can't send them back now!
Honestly, I wouldn't want my kids to be around his warped mind, but on days like this when all I get is attitude and anger because YS got busted for not doing something and I don't have their father to talk it through with, I want to just scream, cry and run away.
Top it all off, I just found out senior night for lacrosse is coming up and I am NOT inviting WW to it, but how sad for my son that his dad won't be there.
I really wish I drank and used sometimes. I would love to just fade away one night.
No, I have no family whatsoever for them to go to. And not really any friends. My older son stays over his friends house, but not very often. He is the one doing really well.
The younger one, the one who communicates with his dad through email. He is the one who wants his dad to come home the most, he is the one that is having the hardest time.
He is at home putting together a plan of action on how he will get his grades back up. Unfortunately we are in the state testing period and I don't know what he can do, but he and I are problem solving that through.
If I thought bringing his dad into this would help, but it really wouldn't and honestly, I'm in Plan B. I need to somehow figure this out without him and just document this for the lawyer and my sanity.
Queenie, you ARE working thru the things that are your responsibility, your kids, your home, YOUR LIFE. Remember, WH isn't even a blip on your radar. He doesn't exist.
It sounds like acceptance isn't coming so easily for you today, or yesterday or tomorrow, for that matter. I read your replies on Not2's thread. Honey, I feel for you, we all do. You are suffering thru a very stressful period with your kid. I know you didn't ASK to be in this sitch, but sista, it is what it is.
STep back. It's times like this that call for deep breathing exercises and a positive mantra.
IMO, having faith that you will be shown the way, whatever way that is, is a more sound belief. Maybe the path to marital recovery is not such a straight line.
YOU ARE NOT STUPID!
YOu are also not invincible; you are human, so let yourself be. Don't fall prey to some belief that some substance outside yourself can free you from all of this; it will just compound your problems (sound familiar?). Go ahead and cry, drink some WATER, and fade into BED.
Maybe the path to marital recovery is not such a straight line.
And with Passover this weekend, I should remember the Jews journey to the promise land.
Why do I keep fighting? Why can't I be like others and just give it up? Why do I still feel this belief to keep fighting and having FAITH in G-d and trust him completely? Even when it looks just absolutely lost.
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Go ahead and cry, drink some WATER, and fade into BED.
The last thing I want to do is go to sleep. I just toss and turn, wake up in two hours and cry and lay awake for the rest of the night.
I was toying with getting dressed, walking down to the tanning place, getting under some light and walking home. Maybe exercise will shake this off.
I'm trying so hard to just accept, and I do for the most part, because I really know ALL the destruction my actions caused this M. I just have this nagging feeling not to give up, no matter what. G-d will tell me time, and hopefully I will be listening.
You ought to see how MY HEAD is SHAKING as I read what you are saying!!
I know Mimi, my head is hurting from me shaking this crappy, not just stinkin thinkin out. I'm sorry. I'm trying so hard to be strong, FAITHFUL and trusting. I'm just disheartened today with it being 11 months and the grades with my son.
Why do I feel things so deeply. Why can't I be less feeling inside and not give a rip one way or another. Why did G-d bless me with this heart and soul that loves this man who doesn't exist anymore.
Actually I'm not supportive of you crying right now.
STOP IT!!
OK, I am not crying anymore. I'm too tired. I am getting up in a few minutes, putting on my tennis shoes, walking down in the RAIN to the tanning place and soaking up some heat.
I'll listen to my ipod, blaring hard rock and stop feeling sorry for myself and just be grateful for what I have and know this stinkin stuff will pass.
God blessed you with the heart and soul to love the husband Queenie, not the wayward. Unfortunate side effect is the pain you feel when it's fractured by the ones you love.
You are having a bad day. Shake it off. Get thee back on track. Negativity will drag you down.
Remember, PARENT FIRST, Friend SECOND. Your son's failure is HIS, as well as dealing with all the consequences. You are building a man of character here, and there are no shortcuts. Listen to me, I've got a 5goingon6 year old and am already working on mantras for being a single parent.
I'm not crying because of just my son. I'm crying because I held myself together at work all day long and didn't mention to anyone that it was 11 months today and just more stuff to feel sorry for myself. That's all.
My son... well as sad as it would be if he was held back, that's really up to him, not me. I can put consequences, take things away but in the end, it's his life and his choice. If I have learned anything it's that I can't control what other people do. I can feel sad or unhappy about it, but that's all I can do.
When I read that Not is so close to a possible recovery and she is tired, I wanted to reach out and hand her my strength and fight so she can have her recovery and I am just feeling more sorry for myself by being jealous.
You are having a bad day. Shake it off. Get thee back on track. Negativity will drag you down.
I'm shaking, and heading out to go walk and tan.
Yes, truly an unfortunate side effect. But, I love the H and just have to find the strength, endurance and stamina to keep fighting. BY LETTING GO and LETTING G-d. I know I have done all I can, now I just have to wait and work on myself. And that's the hardest part of all, taking care of myself.
I am Queenie and this girl is working so hard to just recover herself. I really am working so hard. And I will find the strength, positive attitude, FAITH and keep moving along.
And leave G-d to my H and stay out of it. I still have a lot to learn about myself and what I am capable of. Don't I. Darn it all. Why do I get to be such a mystery as well.
SL, I'm still laughing. Thank you so much for sticking here with me.
And Miss Mimi, for slapping me around and getting me out of the toilet.
On 2nd thought, I am going to relax, take a nice warm bath, listen to some soft music and be grateful for all the people on here, pray for Not to have her recovery and thank G-d that I am lucky enough to love my H.
And be receptive to what G-d needs me to do for him. Not for me. And stop feeling sorry for myself. It could be so much worse than this. RIGHT?
He really is losing a WINNER and AMAZING woman in me.
HA! You didn't really think I'd sit by and watch you go down this path again did you.
You yes YOU said this about 80 pages ago and you are still strugling to beleive it. We all do so what's your excuse?
Be careful with your Son. It took me almost a year before I started smoking pot after my dad left. He doesn't sound like a talker so it might be tough to get it out of him but do what you can to get him to express his pain and sorrow.
Now I pray...for you, your son, and all my friends here on MB.
I've been reading along and praying for you. Last night I thought about you as I went to bed. I was trying to think of good ways to sleep through the night, but I fell asleep before I could think of any!
Hang in there, Queenie, and don't give up a day before the miracle.
Because when everything is said and done, I can't forgive myself for the mistakes and things I did to create this in my M. I'm working on this, I can promise you. In fact G-d and I had a very long talk about this very subject.
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HA! You didn't really think I'd sit by and watch you go down this path again did you.
I wondered where you were. I miss you so much. I'm so happy for you, but I miss you so much.
YS and I just had quite a talk. He told me that he just simply has given up and doesn't care. He misses his dad. I told him that the best way we can carry on is to build a happy life and let G-d take care of dad and hopefully bring him home one day. I told him that I loved him more than I can every express, but that his job in life is to bring those grades up immediately. For the first time, he was so honest about wanting his dad to come home. I'm so proud of him for saying it. I can't fix it, just honor his feelings. Oh, I also mentioned that I absolutely stand that for HIM B's or no keys. And he wants to drive. I forgot that he was so close to driving.
I welcome your prayers tonight and thank you sir for your friendship and am so glad that life is going well for you at least I pray it is.
Actually it's B's for Keys.... I just modified it for him.
He got the message loud and hard. Ah yes, those leverages of driving. This is a gift from G-d. His timing is perfect. My son knows not to push me on this one. I am one grateful woman to G-d right now.
[quote=QueeniesNewLife]Because when everything is said and done, I can't forgive myself for the mistakes and things I did to create this in my M. [quote]
You'll stay stuck until you do forgive yourself Queenie. It's not like you can go bck and change it so it dosen't serve you to dwell on it. You made mistakes just like I, Mimi, beleiver, not, Mark, W2S... need I go on. Missing him is one thing, blaming yourself is just wrong and completly unproductive.
1. My capacity to love someone. 2. My commitment to G-d and becoming who he has always designed for me. 3. My tan. :), the fact that I have lost 87 lbs. 4. My ability in learning how to let go and let G-d. Albeit slow, but remember I was completely prepared to lose the season tickets to the Redskins. That was almost as powerful as G-d parting the Red Sea. 5. My tenacity, and even when I want to quit, I won't allow myself to push that final button, because as bad as the chips are, I really TRUST G-d more than anyone else in this world. He loves me and knows me and wants what is best for me. How can I give up on that.
{{{{{{{{{{TMTS}}}}}}}} I really hope you know how special you are to me. Thank you sir....
See you're just fine. You have your little moments now and then but deep down you're a rock. I'm glad I can be there for you.
Don't forget, even if I don't post as much, I'm always lurking keeping an eye on you, not and serenity. (I wish I knew what happened to DM though). So always be ready for these little insta pick me ups.
(((((((((((((Queenie)))))))))))))
Oh, good job with your son. These little tlaks that let him open up will really help.
Hi Queenie!!! (JT waving from under a pile of WASL stuff) I know you understand what THAT is like...
I've been popping in to check on you but haven't had much time to post. Funny how quickly my spring break filled up. I had to be up at Western Tues, Wed and Thurs nights. Classes are on W/Th but we had an internship meeting. This week-end I went to an Abundant Life Retreat at Fort Flagler near Port Townsend. Beautiful weather, the sun coming up over the Cascades with Mt Rainer in the south and Mt Baker in the North. Except I was completely turned around! I'm used to having the sun go down over the water, not come up over it.
We spend several hours on Sat. just being silent with God, listening to what He had to say to us. It was a very intense week-end, working through some of the deeper stuff of all this.
Tonight, two of my kids presented their projects to the school board. These are the "alternative" kids. They did amazing!
I think you are doing great with your YS. It is hard for kids to concentrate when their families have problems. (That's the story for a majority of my students). I'm surprised my YS didn't fail ALL of last year. (He didn't pass everything, but considering all that was going on, he did pretty well). I like the "B's or no keys". It's motivating for him and there's a really great reward at the end-a driver's license.
ISA 54:2 "Enlarge the place of your tent, stretch your tent curtains wide, do not hold back; lengthen your cords, strengthen your stakes.
ISA 54:3 For you will spread out to the right and to the left; your descendants will dispossess nations and settle in their desolate cities.
ISA 54:4 "Do not be afraid; you will not suffer shame. Do not fear disgrace; you will not be humiliated. You will forget the shame of your youth and remember no more the reproach of your widowhood.
ISA 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the G-d of all the earth.
ISA 54:6 The LORD will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit-- a wife who married young, only to be rejected," says your G-d.
Thank you Cinder, This is perfect for me tonight. I really apprecaite this and will read it again before I go to sleep.
JT,
AH, WASL life, thank goodness there is life after WASL say around May 2nd? How about we think about hooking up maybe Memorial Weekend. I have a 4 day weekend that time? You.
I'm glad you got to be with G-d this weekend. I imagine it was quite an impact on you. Care to share what you learned?
How is your health.
Yes, I am lucky that he is talking and we are just being honest with stuff and working through. I don't want to be a witch, but life goes on and no matter what his job is school. I need to somehow find the strength to keep our family healing and moving along for when my H comes home.
You are so right Cinder, when I have the man on my side, I am one blessed person, someone who is safe and that feels nice right now. Thank you again.
Hi Queenie, I am always keeping an eye on your thread. I want to ask you something.
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2. My commitment to G-d and becoming who he has always designed for me.
What are the things, problems, behaviors, habits, issues in your life that you have changed during this time and how did you do it? I only ask because I know God wants me to learn a lot of things during this time, and I know which ones are but I can not seem to really do it. I am talking about this one in particular. I am really bad at budgeting. I am not a wise stewardship of my money, and I know my husband doesn't like that. I have tried to change this but can not seem to really stick to any plan!! ooouch!!
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3. My tan. :), the fact that I have lost 87 lbs.
I have gained like 20 pounds during this year The anxiety and stress of all this situation makes want to eat all the time, or I will pick my face to the point that I have not been able to go out because I have very bad blisters on my face....my husband doesn't like this either!!!
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4. My ability in learning how to let go and let G-d. Albeit slow, but remember I was completely prepared to lose the season tickets to the Redskins. That was almost as powerful as G-d parting the Red Sea
This has been my major problem... I want to be the one that changes my husband!!!....I have come a long way though...... But I have not come to the point that I let go of completely.... This makes me feel guilty all the time towards God....I feel I'm doubting him..... I think you have come a long way.....It has been absolutely amazing to read the first page of this thread and to read your posts now....you have matured a lot...you have grown so much....you should be proud of yourself, of the strong, godly woman you have become. I think there is a much greater purpose than just recover our M....for all of us.....I would love to give back what i have been given, and I know you are already doing this. Keep it up Queenie!! I can not sleep either!!
What are the things, problems, behaviors, habits, issues in your life that you have changed during this time and how did you do it?
The first thing that started happening was the weight loss. And then I went back to AA and started awakening to the person I had become on the inside which was a dry drunk who had lived a life of craziness for a LONG time. I immediately got a sponsor, began working the steps, attended meetings VERY regularly. I joined a gym, began exercising. I gave up just about ALL my volunteer work, began cleaning my house in many ways particularly my bedroom.
My sponsors' walk in the past year when I came back to the rooms was to learn to trust G-d and that became my Mantra, or the most important thing above all else. I just put one toe in front of the other and when I didn't want to go on, I would reach out for help, I would reach out for G-d. I took responsibility for my PARTS of the M that I had destroyed, and somehow had to come to terms with what I HAD done, though as you can see from today, I still struggle with it.
It was actually apparent from the moment WH left that I no longer carried that anger inside of me for who I had become, I immediately became a better steward of the money, and the craziness that existed in our house, no longer existed. The thing that always amazed me was this craziness had immediately stopped in our house and when I was talking to WH, I listened to what was going on with him and it occured to me, that he was creating the same thing he had with me, with her. He even noticed it.
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I think there is a much greater purpose than just recover our M....for all of us.....I would love to give back what i have been given, and I know you are already doing this.
There is NO DOUBT that in my sitch there is a greater purpose than just my M recovery. It was my personal recovery. My spiritual walk in life with G-d ABOVE all else. I read Psalm 23 in many different ways I was willing enough to be honest that G-d forced me to lay down in green pastures to restore my soul. There is a bracelet I have on, given to me from Johnstwin who had made it, but never knew why. The first time we met, she told me the story of making the bracelet and came to realize she made the bracelet for me. I had my answer of why this was happening.
I love my H with all my heart and soul, I want him home and I want my M restored, BUT he is passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling and has been for our whole married life. It was back in October, before I think this thread started, there are a few others that I posted on in the VERY BEGINNING and I was a TOTAL MESS, worse than today, but one day I was at my copy machine at work and I believe that G-d started talking to me. He told me that my WH was unhappy in his life and blamed me and our M on everything. He believed the OW would make him happy, but what I had started coming to understand was that it wasn't my job or hers to make him happy. That was really his relationship with G-d which would bring him the happiness I KNEW he was looking for because I had to LEARN the same LESSON. And it was then that I realized that G-d told me to give him my WH and get out of the way. He was bringing him down and to stay out of it and learn to take care of myself. I remember G-d telling me on that day that he KNEW how much I LOVED my H, something I had wondered, but that I always tried to fix my H and in the end I took away his journey of learning things in life that he needed to learn himself and I was not G-d and so, I had to get out of the way and let G-d do what G-d was going to do. This has been the HARDEST for me, letting absolutely go of my H. But I am way better, and Plan B has really sped up that process.
I went into a modified Plan B for almost a month of not talking to him, but had never sent a letter. Mimi, a gift from G-d came into my life at that time and started mentoring me in Plan A and I worked Plan A to the best of my ability whenever I got the chance. I think people on here thought I did as strong a Plan A as I could given the awful circumstances, and it Plan B was just always the ultimate goal to get me to. Both in heart and mind and having them be in sync. I could never imagine myself 6 months ago, not checking his phone log. I did it ALL day long. I was crazy with having to know what WH was up to.
I remember doing things in Plan A that were BOLD and FUN. I will ALWAYS treasure the day I went to work, showed up after so long, brought him something to eat, was looking amazing at 70 lbs and hugged him. He has NEVER not once commented by himself on my weight loss. Only after I said something, and not even really then. But the FUNNEST DAY was showing up at his lacrosse game. I had NEVER in all my life felt so empowered.
This journey has been about my relationship with G-d and FACING, HONESTLY AND OPENLY, the person I had become, the marriage that it had turned into and be willing to change EVERYTHING about myself, but letting G-d direct those changes. So whatever successes I have are HIS and only HIS. Mimi would give me suggestions to do, Johnstwin and Mark especially would give me scripture to hold onto during those dark times and each day would just come and go. TMTS, would stay up with me during the late hours and just keep me posting so I wouldn't go into that darkness that would consume me. And I would get so much encouragement from others. I had also been talking to SmartiePants since the summer on the phone and she saved my A$$ many times when I would call and be a crying mess.
I prayed to G-d to transform me into a Proverbs 31 woman, and I continued to just work the AA program, listen to my sponsor, exercise, and trust in G-d. Since the very beginning I addressed EVERY possible addiction to ANYTHING, but the ultimate was the one to my H and I work on that one everyday. It's a battle I tell ya, but it's better and better, because I know that G-d wants him and wants me out of the way. Plan B is giving G-d what he wants and that's where the blessings will come.
It was that simple, but the HARDEST thing I ever did, was truly learn to just turn my will and my life over to the care of G-d. Angie, you were brought into my life to remember and be accountable to all the good that has happened in my life since D-day. It's not my M yet, but maybe that is one day. You're right I have come a long way, and I have to give G-d the glory of this, because he is the one who was patient to not give up on me and I was willing to do whatever it took and be honest and change everything that was required. My LIFE depended on it.
Thank you for asking. I am here for you ANYTIME you need me and please feel free to email me. G-d takes where we are and as long as we are open works in us little by little. I certainly didn't see the changes each day, but last week my sponsor telling me I am NOT the same person and tonight, realizing and be willing to honestly and proudly say I am NOT that same person. I am a woman of G-d today who has her moments of sadness and despair, but NEVER gives up.
Just start talking to G-d all the time, everyday, all day long and be willing to hear the answers. And come to this forum often and post and listen.
{{{{{{{{{Angie}}}}}}}} You were my sign from G-d tonight. Please know how special you are and the miracle you just gave me. Thank you....
Look it everyone.. I slept almost 2 1/2 hours at one time.
I'll try a little more now.
There is no way for me to express how deeply loved for each one of you who have helped me. Gratitude seems hardly enough, but it is with my most humbled and deepest appreciation that you are all in my life and I thank you.
Angie, our job is not to change anyone else, but ourselves. If nothing else, learn that G-d loves your H as much as you do, actually way more than you can ever imagine and is suffering through the choices that your WH is making.
Our only job is to become who G-d has always wanted us to be, and leave the rest to him. It's not EASY, but it's the only way.
Learning that I had NO CONTROL over OTHERS was HARD, but each day I come to a better understanding and just keep praying for more understanding and the willingness.
Learn to say this prayer G-d grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change. The courage to change the things I can And the wisdom to know the difference.
Read the bible, especially the psalms and proverbs, they brought me so much comfort. G-d has a plan for us, he knows the beginning and knows the end. Our job is to not thwart him, but just go along for the ride, completely trusting it will be better than we can ever imagine.
I STILL STRUGGLE WITH THIS, but I get to repeat it to myself when I get to share it with you. And yes, we will need to give back to those who come after us and love on them the way so many love on us now. That is Tikkum Olam, repairing the world which is what G-d really wants us to do.
My goodness woman, what an inspiration you have become!
You know how I like to look at church signs on the way to and from places these days. Saw one for the first time today on the way to work, and thought of how similar our situations are.. the words though jumped out at me as it's about one of our mantras here:
God wants you to BE STILL so that HE can untangle the knot.
It hit me on a number of levels. Of course the BE STILL jumped out at me.. we hear that all the time around here. But 'the knot' being something commonly associated with marriage.. and the tangles being our circumstances and the OP..
It's so true.. just like a child who can't untie his shoes because he's knotted them up.. and won't sit still for his loving parent to untangle the mess.. God wants us to be still so that He can work out the problems in our lives.
Just spreading the love.. I can't tell you how wonderful it is to see you so strong and standing proud in your faith. You've come a long way woman! I'm so proud to have known you.
I shook off that ucky mood. I had a LONG day at work, was so tired and out of it, but my boss was occupied most of the day and so I could keep to myself.
My OS played in an amazing game tonight, it was 13-11. They won. One of the refs knows my H really well. He and I have always been friendly, but tonight we really connected because he is from DC area and a Redskin fan. So, I fully took advantage of enlightening him on my WH sitch. He was blown away. I'm not going down without a fight and even if I lose, people are going to know he was not in his right mind.
Good evening you fine GODDESS you....how are things??? Well, I saw you got some better sleep. That's good. I know its hard....BTDT...I hate when my insominia kicks in...weirdly, it pretty much has stayed at bay since all of this began. Oh sure, I've had some rough nights, and that first week...I think I got about 10 hrs., but for the most part it hasn't been too bad. And this from the girl who got so very little sleep for months when we were dealing with DD14 sitch.
Anyway, I am so glad to hear about your sons game...and how well you are handling your sons grades sitch. You are such a strong and vibrant person. Know that.
If ANYTHING good comes out of these sitch's, it is all the wonderful people I have meet along the way on here.
Anway love, try to get some sleep tonight...and did you try the journeling yet?????
Once upon a time, when I was still good and depressed - a couple of years after x moved out, I was driving to see my mom - about 400 miles. Anyway, I was driving down this 2 lane state highway in the middle of West Nowhere and I saw a sign in front of a church.
Seek God and He will find you.
I really needed that at the time. It has served me well all these years - about 9 or 10 years since I saw it.
I am doing better today. Yes, the sitch with my YS is ok so far. He went to school and talked to one of the teachers who told him how to start digging out. He plans to talk to two more tomorrow and then the other one the day after.
I spoke with his counselor and she had already emailed his teachers. She said that basically it was up to him to communicate with his teachers on what he could do to save himself. I think she prefers me to stay out of it, support him from home, assist in anyway I can, but let this be his journey and not fix it for him. Let him live natural consequences. Fortunately I have had MANY years of practice with my OS and I am very comfortable and supportive of this.
Never in my life have I had sleeping problem until D-day. Mentally and spiritually I am in a better place today. The meltdown in a way was good for me, it completely exhausted my spirit and soul and let G-d work on me. You are so RIGHT. There is GOOD that has come out of this already and for me to deny it would be DISMISSING G-d and there is NO WAY I could EVER do that again. I agree, I think those of us who have become a part of each of our lives will carry this support with us forever in ways that we can't even imagine today. I know G-d needs me to keep my FAITH and TRUST, my positive attitude and my loving spirit no matter what.
I didn't journal last night, but I do have one started, hopefully tonight I can get some in. Boston Legal is on. My favorite show and I might try and watch it.
And I am very blessed because he did find me. He always knew where I was, I just lost him. I don't plan to make that mistake again in my life.
I'm so glad this has helped you through the years. I plan to remember this for a very long time. Hopefully the rest of my life. My relationship with G-d is the blessing in all this. And there is NO WAY I could EVER deny that. I don't know if I can say it was worth the cost of my M. What I can say is I am grateful that G-d trusted me to seek him when this happened. How he knew, I don't know. But to think of me going through this bitter, angry, crazy and without him scares me to DEATH of what could have happened.
Thanks Cinder... When so many of us who says things that touch our hearts in profound ways, we can take comfort it is G-d working in our lives and helping each other through.
Yeah, sometimes we just get disconnected from Him. But, if we are open and seeking, He will find us.
Sometimes, He talks to me from strange places....like in the George Burns movies.....like on car license plates. Words from people's mouths. Signs on buildings. Lines in songs. And, not always religious songs.
There really have been times when I turned on the radio and there He was....it was someone else's voice. But, it was Him speaking to me.
When I had my wreck last month, He took care of me. Made a space in the rush hour traffic on the interstate for my out-of-control car to go careening around and not hit anyone. A fireman was at the window of my car before I could figure out what happened and that I really was still alive. A highway incident truck was there within 2 minutes. And, I walked away from it all...... How much will He take care of you?
I went to my AA meeting tonight. The study was on the family afterwards. Last week it was about the two wives.
I spoke for the first time in a long time about the journey and these past 11 months. I really opened up about how I continue to stand for my M, against all hope and let G-d have my H, which is something I couldn't have imagined me ever doing.
I realized that WH is so into his addiction that I started prayign to see him walk through the AA doors for himself. Not for our M, but himself. One man who has always been extra nice to me, he has been married for 50 years came up and asked me my H name and said he was going to start praying for him. I feel comfort from that.
So many people find my WH's behaviour appalling, blah... blah... but addicts and alcoholics understand compassionately the destruction. And thought it's hard to accept that this is an addiction, they can accept he is destroying his life and a family with it and they hurt for that if nothing else.
Well, tomorrow is ONE MONTH in Plan B. And I think for the most part I have remained as dark as possible. I no longer look at emails, cell phone logs. I have NO IDEA what is happening in WH's world today and I just keep praying and hoping that one day he will walk into the rooms of AA and be my H again.
In this month, I learned I still have the ability to meltdown, but that I also know it will end. I have learned that I love this man so much and I probably always will. I have learned that being away from him is calmer, although I still miss him so much. And I have learned that I am willing to keep holding the space for our M and completely letting G-d have him.
I still have a hard time forgiving myself, but I am becoming more accepting. I haven't lost much weight lately, and my food isn't as good as it was, but I am still exercising and asking G-d for help. I have a LONG way to go, but I am not giving up.
In fact, I have worked very HARD this month to do NOTHING....
HARDEST thing I EVER did.. NOTHING...
I should really be resting up for when WH is broken and comes home. That's when I really will need my strength, but then again. I will just go to G-d for guidance EVERY step of the way.
Do you know how many people think I am stupid and nuts to be working so hard on my M.
Do you know how many people think I am stupid and nuts to be working so hard on my M.
I guess 21. LOL (I know bad attempt at humour)
As you know I got lucky and didn't need to experience Plan B, but if it had come to that you would be my inspiration as you were when I was doing my Plan A. You are a model of resilience and strength Queenie.
How about I work on that for this month. Learning to stand on what I believe and be ok with that and look to G-d only. Well and on here.
Actually this might not be a bad idea. Since I am in this quiet phase of recovery so to speak, what do people do with themselves but learn about themselves and keep improving those areas that they always wanted to.
So, one of the things that has always gotten me into trouble is my non ability to be assertive and letting others cloud my thinking or my "truth'.
So, any ideas on how to learn to become more assertive or learn what that would mean to me?
Do you know how many people think I am stupid and nuts to be working so hard on my M.
Well, look at it this way, it's really none of their business. I think nearly 100% of people really believe they would kick their spouse to the curb if they cheated ... until they do, and then, well we BS know, it isn't as easy as we assumed it would be to just throw away a life with someone we love, whether or not they deserve our love.
FWIW, whether or not your WH ever wakes up and comes home to recover your marriage, you will feel better for everything you have done to make it possible for him to do that.
You aren't going to lose anything more by waiting, but you might just gain a recovered marriage. Only time will tell.
FWIW, whether or not your WH ever wakes up and comes home to recover your marriage, you will feel better for everything you have done to make it possible for him to do that.
You aren't going to lose anything more by waiting, but you might just gain a recovered marriage. Only time will tell.
You are so right. What I will also gain is my self-respect and love for myself in the process. G-d has been working on me and continues to do so. I know I am not completed yet, there is still much work to be done on the inside. I just need a little guidance on where to work next.
I will never doubt why this happened. I'm just grateful that G-d had enough FAITH in me to know I would seek him out through this and completely depend on him to walk me through it. There is no doubt I am a much better person and someone who is special and becoming more a G-d like woman everyday. There is no doubt the hard lessons I have learned and were mine to learn.
I just have to keep on keepin on and let G-d do what he wants to do.
Thanks Exodus. I'm trying to get to respond to what you emailed me. Today's journey in the storm. I am able to be open and honest with myself that I am walking through this for the Glory of G-d. I was a angry, unhappy, selfish, dying woman inside. I have no doubt that I loved my H with all my heart and soul, I just got lost. This is happening because it's my time to struggle and be the glory that G-d can claim even though I haven't gotten what I wanted. But G-d is getting what he needs and wants. A woman who loves Him with all her heart, a woman who is working very hard to be a G-dlike woman in everything she does in life, and a woman who is grateful that she can see she is being used for the greater good. Now I might not like it and I might let my sadness get in the way, but I understand that I have a role right now for G-d and when the storm is done, I will be recovered into a whole woman and that will be all the glory G-d really needs.
I still hope my M is part of the deal though.
Wait... I still don't like it, but that's just my journey...
Queenie you are truely an inspiration!!Your WH is losing a real gem and we can only pity him.Isn't it wonderful how God brings all the right people into our life when we need them.He really walks alongside us 24/7 we only need to be AWARE of Him and He will be our Comforter and Healer.
Your WH is losing a real gem and we can only pity him.
While I believe that I have always been this person deep down inside, I got lost for many years. I am not the person that my WH walked out on. I am becoming more and more the free spirited, loving person I was all those years ago. I would love to blame him, but the reality is, he didn't make me change I just evolved.
Am I sorry, YES. But maybe that was always the journey. Regardless, pitying my H isn't the answer. Praying that he finds G-d is. He is an addict who is out there active in his addiction and it's scary because he is self-destructive by nature. He is blaming me for sure. And I have a huge part to own, but this is bigger than me. There is too much destruction happening in his life.
Pity, him no. Let's pray for him to find his way back home where he belongs.
Originally Posted By: QueeniesNewLifeDo you know how many people think I am stupid and nuts to be working so hard on my M.
I guess 21. LOL (I know bad attempt at humour)
Ok, sadly I don't get this. Where did you get the number at?
TST,
I have really thought alot of what you said. And the scary part is that if all I have ever known is mind games. And it's what I am most comfortable with, what a long road to health I have because I don't even recognize it when I am involved, getting myself involved until it's too late.
Hey Rin, would this be my Alanon stuff? Or just asking G-d at every turn, every situation until I become MUCH more AWARE of when I am partipating in it.
I'm just working out loud through this. I guess you could call mind games another word for manipulation which is one of my character defects and the way to work with this is pray to G-d everyday to humbly ask him to remove my character defects and replace it with qualities that are worthy of G-d and much healthier.
I have worked very hard on my AA program and have to work even harder on my recovery. There is no room in my life for this kind of behavior because the pattern begins again and that's not a G-d life at all. And that's not what I am working so hard for.
Hey, Chag Sameach everyone or Happy Pesach or Passover. It starts tonight and unfortunately I won't be having a seder like I have for many years. Today is my DD 22nd birthday as well. So, this is pretty much the last of the firsts for me. Except the year anniversary of D-day which is coming up. I didn't think I was going to live through this, and quite honestly didn't want to. But here I am, working hard each day to please G-d and work through becoming that healthy person.
So much left to still do, but hey at least it will keep me busy. I get to take the boys over to Vashon Island for games tonight. This will be the first time ever we have gone on a ferry together. This will be my only 2nd one. Woo hoo.
Too bad they are calling for snow. Ah, weather in the PNW, 80 degrees last Saturday, snow today.
I am now up to page 115 of your thread and do intend to 'catch up'.... but am jumping on the wagon based on CL's note....
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Just checking up on you. Your first month in Plan B is a success I would say. You have done a great job.
My thoughts on Plan B is that it is in fact a 'damage control' plan....stopping WS from doing further harm to BS, among other things.... for which they can be NOTORIOUS given their state of mind!
...but just like breastfeeding a baby is good.... they forget to mention the downside....sleep deprivation!
...and so it is with Plan B! ....BS has to FIRST struggle with 'withdrawal' from WS... and trying NOT to think of WS: what he is thinking...doing...will do...ETC ETC!
...but if you have 'managed' to do it for one month... then...just keep doing what you are doing!
I'm going to give you a call in a few so we can catch up on the phone. I miss talking to you and I am just laying in bed playing a stupid game that's wasting time instead of being the GODDESS that I am and cleaning my apt.
L2F, No kidding that weather was something yesterday. It snowed for most of the day here over in Maple Valley, but on Vashon it did the same thing as you. The cool part was that the weather held for the 2nd game where there was no cover. The first game I scored so I had cover. Both boys won their games, the YS had a not very good game, but the OS did. YS got more penalities. Not sure why, but I am leaving that up to the coaches.
Gosh it was so cold, wasn't it? You are correct, such parallels to life.
Hi Luna, I'm grateful that you are reading my thread. I welcome any insights and pearl words of wisdom or simply comments that keep me focused on my goal of recovery. I really respect all that you have learned and been through and are walking through today, so thank you.
Withdrawals from WS. I had enough of those during Plan A to be able to recognize I would be going through them. What I didn't realize in how many ways I thought of him. And it's been a monumental task to not think of him at all. How does one do that, other than praying to G-d. I prayed to him that the obsession would be removed. I wouldn't say it has happened, but it's certainly not what it was. So, now I will tweak and just ask to get WH off of my mind.
There is a part of me that's afraid to do this because how will G-d rememember that I want my marriage if I stop thinking about him or praying for him?
Yesterday was the last of the big firsts. I need to just put this out there because it hurts. WH hadn't called DD to wish her a happy birthday and she is sad and hurt. There isn't anything I can do, I realize that. But my kids and the loss of their dad just flippin hurts to watch and see.
It's been so hard to accept that my kids are just another statistic. It pains me to my core because that's not what I wanted for them and stupid me still thinks that had I done things differently we wouldn't be going through this and my children wouldn't be hurting. But G-d doesn't have grandchildren and so I can just pray and ask G-d to help me be of service to him where my kids are concerned. If there is one thing I have learned it's not to take their journey away from them.
I will keep on doing what I am doing. Which is almost nothing and keep asking for help in doing more of nothing. To a control freak, that's pretty hard isn't it.
Well, another first out of the way, unexpectedly. My YS asked me this morning if we were going to the seder at temple. Of course we weren't b/c it didn't occur to me to ask someone else other than myself. His friend was going to be there, so I called up and made reservations.
I was looking total GODDESS in my green dress, JT. I was uncomfortable to say the least. They really want me to just be over this and divorce him. They can't believe that I would for any reason let G-d have him and hold the space for my M. It just floors me. But that's there deal and thank goodness I have here to come to and know that what's happening isn't crazy. It's "normal" if you will.
On the way home, YS blurted out, dad is whipped. It caught me so off gaurd, I asked again. He said dad is whipped by that woman, and of course I had to ask. He said that whenever he's been with him, the phone rings its her and he immediately says he has to go.
TST, I'm really looking at what you said to me the other day about being a mind game addict. So, I am just putting that info here and dropping it.
None of my business. Just praying to G-d to remove the desire to think about it.
Happy Pesach to whoever it applies to. I'm glad I went to the seder if for no other reasons, than it's part of my heritag and it keeps it alive for my children. And that's important to me.
Remember your FAITH walk, you have faith in the restoration of your M, keep thinking that, b/c without FAITH it is impossible to please God.
Thanks My, needed that tonight. Spending time with my friends, while I miss them so much, brings me way down because there is no faith in them whatsoever and I feel so alone on this walk at times.
Keep my head up. Yes, up I am and pleasing G-d is what I am all about these days. I still have my FAITH. I still love the man inside this monster who once existed and I BELIEVE that G-d will heal this situation one day in his time. I just need a little jolt of endurance and tenacity once in a while.
{{{{{{{{My}}}}}}}} Take care and thank you for the thoughts...
It's been so hard to accept that my kids are just another statistic.
Not yet!!! aren't you in plan B??? Have you given up?? You are talking like if you have lost hope....
We are in a very difficult situation, even though we are in the opposite position (you the BS, me the FWW). People sometimes do not understand why we do the things we do, and why we're willing to endure everything just to recover our M. Queenie What I am trying to tell you is during this time the most important thing God has taught me is that even when men say it's impossible, even when they tell us that our sitch is impossible, even when they say there is no hope for us...He has told me over and over and over this: "For nothing is impossible for God" Luke 1 When I begin to really accept this truth, I really believed it....and you know what?....as a child of God...I refuse to accept that my M and my kids were just an statistic....I do not accept that, rather I begin to believe and pray the scriptures over my M and my family. Am I making sense?? When you think it's hopeless, think about this verse.... I hope this helps a little.
None of my business. Just praying to G-d to remove the desire to think about it.
Queenie;
When you begin thinking about that just think about this;
Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Phillipians 4:8
Decide to think about noble and lovely things instead......Don't worry you will be able to do this!!!
Not yet!!! aren't you in plan B??? Have you given up?? You are talking like if you have lost hope....
I am in plan B, I haven't given up and I haven't lost HOPE.
I get down and maybe that's one thing I need to stop as well, is the doubt. Hmmm... I can't give up. I can let go- let G-d have him, but I am holding the space for my M.
Thanks for the scripture. I like this one.
This journey is one where G-d will be glorified in the end. For that I have NO DOUBT. I know what I want, I pray for it, but I also have got to let G-d completely have the outcome so he can work his miracles and blessings.
People don't understand... But I do and where there influence can get me down, really down. In the end, I bounce back with my FAITH and HOPE and willingness to serve G-d and continue on the path of recovery for my M. In his time, not mine.
Queenie you have such strong will power..the first month is so hard and you've been a star!!
I find what helps me is music..my son D-J's so there is always music in my home playing!!!I load my mp3 player with my favourite songs,plug in my earphones and I'm happy!!....in my car,in the mall,in the bath!!!It takes my mind off WH. Keep your chin up you're doing great!!!
I did a silly thing last night at the seder. My friend who helped me in the beginning and is the one who keeps in contact with WH was there last night.
He was talking to my son about WH and I found myself wanting to listen. It was hard, but I had to push that out and not go ask him anything. I was uncomfortable around him, and realized he may care about me, but he isn't for doing what's right. And I don't need people in my life who don't support my walk right now.
There is a part of me that's afraid to do this because how will G-d rememember that I want my marriage if I stop thinking about him or praying for him?
...I know what you mean, Queenie.... trust yourself to make the right decision IF S, not WS, reappears....
This FEAR will keep WS in your thoughts.... and hold you back, when you could be making better use of that energy....
If you need to hear it, Queenie....bottom line.... THINKING about WS will NOT do the trick (in case you thought it did!)....at best, you are WASTING good energy.... please consider 'letting go' of this belief.... and redirecting the energy where it will be more PRODUCTIVE and HEALTHIER....
...it's on record that putting energy in thinking about WS vs like, getting your toilet bowl sparkling clean.... you could at least say.... you have a clean toilet bowl!
...see what I mean?
If you are anything like me...thinking about WS\S is a 'reflex' and it can't be 'undone' overnight.... then I suggest start by 'reducing' the length of time....say...thoughts of WS come to mind.... give it 10 seconds... and FORCE yourself....to THINK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!
...plan B is also intended to help you out with this... the less you KNOW what WS is doing the easier it will be NOT to think about what he is doing (avoid solliciting info. about WS from kids and those that are in contact with WS and talking about him...I know...easier said than done!)
...Queenie, it's a process.... don't be too hard on yourself...
...and more importantly, you really need to TAKE CARE of yourself....because, as you can tell, affairs are a tough gig to overcome!
...it's on record that putting energy in thinking about WS vs like, getting your toilet bowl sparkling clean.... you could at least say.... you have a clean toilet bowl!
...see what I mean?
I do. And my apartment would love to benefit from it.
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If you are anything like me...thinking about WS\S is a 'reflex' and it can't be 'undone' overnight.... then I suggest start by 'reducing' the length of time....say...thoughts of WS come to mind.... give it 10 seconds... and FORCE yourself....to THINK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!
It is a reflex. And becoming aware of it is happening more and more. I really try to shake my head and ask G-d to remove the urge or redirect me to HIS thought for me.
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...and more importantly, you really need to TAKE CARE of yourself....because, as you can tell, affairs are a tough gig to overcome!
This BY FAR is the HARDEST thing in all of this. Either I haven't come to a point where I care about myself yet or I just simply still don't believe I am worth it. But I am working on it and continue to act as if.
I was certainly damaged material and have lots to work through. I really should be glad that sick monster is away from me while G-d has the time and space to continue his work in me. I would imagine that's his plan.
What makes you THINK that you don't care about yourself?
It's NOT an OPTION to NOT CARE!!
YOU MUST CARE ABOUT YOURSELF..it's NON-NEGOTIABLE..
Who else is going to care about you more than you care about yourself?
Well, I never thought of myself as some worthwhile who deserved to take care of myself. I was just a person, ugly and fat and should just be grateful for what I had.
I accepted what my H gave me and thought it was just fine. I didn't realize how destructive I was being to myself.
Well, I never thought of myself as some worthwhile who deserved to take care of myself. I was just a person, ugly and fat and should just be grateful for what I had.
I accepted what my H gave me and thought it was just fine. I didn't realize how destructive I was being to myself.
This was IN THE PAST!!
Let that PAST thought process GO!!
Let's FORGET how you USED to THINK...IN THE PAST!!
The scriptures tell us we are to love others as we love ourselves.
How can we love others and place value on them when we do not love and value ourselves?
If we are loved by God, how can we second guess Him?
If He values us and our feelings, how can we accept less from ourselves?
How much value does He place on us? He says "See? I have engraved you on the palms of my hands..."
If He said nothing else...Dayenu!
When Adam and Eve sinned, He provided covering for them so that they might stand before Him unashamed. A substitutionary sacrifice was made so that they might be acceptable to Him.
When He promised Israel that He would go with her and lead her to the land He had promised through Abraham, He kept that promise.
When He gave the Law at Sinai, He made His people an example for all the world to see so that all would know that He was actively involved in their lives each day.
When He rescued David from his enemies, He proved that He cares for those that love Him.
When He kept the remnant safe during captivity, He proved that He had a plan just as He promised through Jeremiah.
When He began to bring His people home after centuries of dispersion, He was actively showing his care for them though the world despised them and hated them.
And He showed us exactly how he forgives each of us in spite of our own selfish ways and the fact that we have chased after other "gods" and made our own selfish desires more important than Him in our lives when He told us of how Hosea redeemed his wife in spite of her adulterous ways.
If He had done nothing else at all, Dayenu!
He has shown us His love, how can we not love ourselves?
:...and more importantly, you really need to TAKE CARE of yourself....because, as you can tell, affairs are a tough gig to overcome!
This BY FAR is the HARDEST thing in all of this. Either I haven't come to a point where I care about myself yet or I just simply still don't believe I am worth it. But I am working on it and continue to act as if.
Queenie...we set the standard of how we want to be treated .... with respect and care? ....then we need to treat ourselves (and learn to treat others!) with respect and care... show the way....and plan B anyone, never mind WSs, that will not treat us so...
...we cannot DEMAND/CONTROL anyone to ACT in any particular way.... we can only REMOVE ourselves from being part of a DANCE we don't want to dance (plan B in a nutshell!)
...simple to say, hard to do...
so...continue to ACT as IF....and keep doing what you are doing....and one day....without even realizing it.....you will get to...ACT, period.
He has shown us His love, how can we not love ourselves?
I hadn't thought of it like that.
Dayenu
Mimi,
I'm learning to do this. Progress not perfection.
Luna,
You are so right. I never even knew that I was being treated badly. It's all I have ever known. From a little girl on up. And so becoming aware of it has been a hard thing for me to even notice. You can't change what you don't recognize.
But it's something I am asking G-d for guidance and help in working on.
One day, I will be that person who will accept respect as the given and have it as a part of my life always. That will be my norm.
I think you are wanting to hang onto to some OLD STUFF..LET GO!!
I WIN... I do NOT want to HOLD onto ANYTHING... I want the PAST to be the PAST and move to my NEW LIFE....
I am EVOLVED INTO WHO I AM TODAY. Actually that REALLY IS THE TRUTH. I HAVE WORKED VERY HARD TO BECOME THE GODDESS I AM TODAY AND I AM DARN PROUD OF HER. AND LIKE HER....
I need to talk to somebody today, I am very low, I feel very bad. I know one day you told me that if I needed to e-mail you to do it, that it was ok with you, but you never posted your e-mail address. Please...I do not know what to do...
I've been around but it's a busy life with YS and all the kids still here. But, it makes things cozy for those April snows...(I thought it was supposed to be April showers)
I was so proud of you for wearing your green dress. You definitely have found the goddess within.
I also want to let you know that I so appreciate how transparent you have been on your journey. You may never know how many lurkers you have helped just by sharing your story.
Hang in there-God has the best ahead.
"I know the plans I have for you" say the Lord God, "plans to prosper you and not harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future." Jer. 29:11
I miss you so much. I am not sure I have been any more transparent than anyone else, but thank you. As much as I have FAITH in G-d, if I can be of service to him on here, then I have to be grateful for that.
Passover was pretty nice. I'm glad that I took my YS. It's important that I keep up our traditions so they know that it was a part of us and not just convenient. But that was my son, so I have to be thankful he stood up.
Thanks for the compliment on the dress. It's funny, most people all they commented on was my tan and where did I get it. When I coped that it was fake and bake they had nothing but criticism. I just stood my ground, so I liked it and left it at that and walked away. It's amazing to me how I must have given permission to disrespect me or feel like there "concern" is ok.
This weather is something else for sure. Hopefully it isn't a forecast of summer to come. I am looking forward to the apt and a pool to sit by.
I know G-d has plans for me. I just have to keep on walking until he's ready to unveil them.
It just easier some days.
I'm glad your life is busy. It helps the healing process and passing time. How are you doing? How is your health? Almost done with WASL. Yahoo... Then onto next year's stuff.
Thanks for the compliment on the dress. It's funny, most people all they commented on was my tan and where did I get it. When I coped that it was fake and bake they had nothing but criticism. I just stood my ground, so I liked it and left it at that and walked away. It's amazing to me how I must have given permission to disrespect me or feel like there "concern" is ok.
Queenie next time just respond with "where do you THINK I got it?" (with a wink and a smile while walking away) or even say "that's a pretty rude question, don't you think?" (with a wink and a smile while walking away). You don't OWE anyone an explanation. It's NOTB.
I don't think you gave anyone permission to disrespect you, some people are just idiots. It really doesn't matter what they think -- it's what YOU think and believe about yourself.
I don't think you gave anyone permission to disrespect you, some people are just idiots. It really doesn't matter what they think -- it's what YOU think and believe about yourself.
Today I think I am a good person who I am getting to know better and better. One who I like and one who I am proud of.
I believe that I deserve the best that G-d wants to bless me with and am willing to serve him in anyway I can.
I'm really just working through this thing. So bear with me.
For so long I couldn't like myself for my behaviors, blah.. blah.. blah.
Now I do like who I am today, but I wasn't able to admit that because I am not who I want to be. And so to admit that would say that I have become.
It dawned on me at my throne That who I am today is someone who likes herself, but that she isn't satisfied and continues to evolve and change herself as G-d needs her to.
I kept thinking that I had to end up as this person and then I could love myself. But I have to learn to accept myself who I am today and love myself today. Where I end up tomorrow doesn't matter because if I love myself today, then I am walking in G-ds plan for me.
Actually I didn't take it as being funny or a joke. I understood her point completely.
I am so in a process of learning about myself. What has become a little more obvious to me is my NEED for chaos, drama or the need to keep denying that I am a good person.
I notice that when WH left, the chaos in our life stopped. But I seem to be trying to put chaos/drama into my life again and I need to STOP THIS BEHAVIOR. My old patterns are way more comfortable, but they aren't good for me or who I want to be.
I'm trying to find strategies of noticing when the pattern starts to rear it's ugly head and thereby giving me the chance of stopping it before it begins.
By far, one of the most destructive pattern or character defect is the need to either manipulate, control or be a marytr. I am doing so much better in the dept of control and manipulating, but this martyr stuff is rearing it's ugly head by my up and down moods.
I'm willing to try anything and go to any lengths, so maybe taking responsibity for this or putting it out here will enable me to have to change and stop this destructive behavior.
Any ideas on strategies? If I don't learn different behaviors or learn to recognize this pattern stopping, then I will revert back to old ways if/when H were to come home and that's not a life I want to go back to.
[quote] And how funny it's my 21st birthday today. AA that is.
CONGRATS..
Well keep coming back, One day at a time, Works if you work it, Let go and let God, Easy does it (but do it), and all those other bumper sticker slogans....
I think you're SCARED to HAVE FUN and to BE HAPPY..it's the ACOA...WE are uncomfortable with that..We learned to ALWAYS BE ON GUARD, waiting for the next shoe to drop..thinking WHAT DO I NEED TO FIX/CONTROL NOW?..in order to KEEP something BAD from HAPPENING...
BE SILLY/HAVE FUN/BEAT YOUR HEAD ON THE DESK and THEN, LAUGH AT YOURSELF...
I think you're SCARED to HAVE FUN and to BE HAPPY..it's the ACOA...WE are uncomfortable with that..We learned to ALWAYS BE ON GUARD, waiting for the next shoe to drop..thinking WHAT DO I NEED TO FIX/CONTROL NOW?..in order to KEEP something BAD from HAPPENING...
BE SILLY/HAVE FUN/BEAT YOUR HEAD ON THE DESK and THEN, LAUGH AT YOURSELF...
I notice that when WH left, the chaos in our life stopped. But I seem to be trying to put chaos/drama into my life again and I need to STOP THIS BEHAVIOR. My old patterns are way more comfortable, but they aren't good for me or who I want to be.
GREAT realization...and one I share along with many others here, no doubt.
Funny thing is, I grew up w/ way too much drama...and it was one of the things that attracted me to WW...boy, would I not make THAT mistake again, now that I'm so much older and wiser...
Mimi, interesting stuff on ACOA...my wife is one, and has read Gravitz's "Recover: A guide for Adult Children of Alcoholics"...any other suggestions? ...end of t/j.
Sunny skies over here on the Island... Isn't Spring starting to smell great?!
Yeah, I'm good. There was a sighting of WH last night at game which tweaked me, but I am purposefully not talking about it to give it brain power. I think I am failing abit as I keep thinking about it.
My OS has his senior night tonight and then a game and at halftime his tiger team is doing an exhibition game. I remember last year being with WH and talking about how we get to enjoy this time together next year and here it is. It's a special night and my son only has one parent. I just hurt for him.
I did talk to my sponsor about my need to stir up stuff for drama and agreed to write about it.
First I went to tanning, then went home and changed my shirt to a beautiful blue that is very unique. It gathers around the front top and has and uneven bottom that gives a more slimming appearance.
Fortunately I saw him walk up before me because I had been walking around the track. I walked onto the field and we were in alpha order, so I got to be the last. Remembering that Plan A and Plan B were about me, I went running across the field, took off my vest, so that my new body was revealed, ran back into line and laughed and talked and had a blast. NOT ONCE looking up at him straight on. My son and I met at the middle of the field, we gave each other a HUGE hug and then held hands as we walked down the field to get our pictures taken. Smiling and laughing the whole time. I looked awesome.. Good color, major tan, my hair down incredible and my make up perfect.
OS when waiting to meet with me, was over on the opposite side, laughing and having a blast. He hadn't seen his dad yet. So, then we took a parents and group shot and I beamed and laughed and had a blast. Then I walked over to the table, got my vest, ran acrosse the field to get the scorebook, not once looking up at him. And then a friend walked with me around the track over to the other side. The whole time we were laughing and having fun. Sincerely actually.
Game time, I got to keep score. Oh yes, right before the game started OS noticed he was there and turned to me and looked at me in disgust. I just acknowledged what he realized, got up and walked over to OS and gave him a huge hug and told him how proud and how much I loved him. And at half time he left. I peeked a few looks, but I was having a blast being animated, happy and living in my new life.
At halftime, my son's tiger team were on the field playing, but WH had left before so he didn't get to experience OS as a mentoring person. His loss. Truly.
Miss Mimi,
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WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HIM AT ALL!!
NOT ONE WORD, NOT ONE LOOK. NOT ANYTHING THAT WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE HIS PRESENCE.
I have to admit, I did look at him when I could, but it was from across the field and my head was always at an angle so it wasn't obvious.
I did notice one person came over and walked in front of him, sat down and then got up. It was a friend of mine. WH said hi, so he answered back and then said, you haven't been to too many games and WH just agreed. Friend had no interest in talking to him, got up and left. I did ask friend how he looked and he said bad.
Programs were handed out. OS's best friend's mom was passing them out, standing right by WH and looked right passed him, didn't say one word and WH spoke to get one.
So, all in all, did I do a good job? I looked outstanding and I knew it. I understand that as soon as the season is over, there are to be no more sightings. But this gave me the opportunity to ignore WH and show him I am moving on and it almost felt like it.
I was hoping it wasn't considered vengence, but more like this is what you are missing and be careful. You could lose it forever.
I have to be honest, when I left work after learning he was going to be there, I put my faith in G-d and prayed to him for guidance on how to act like he wanted me to and be the woman he wanted me to and give me the strength to walk through it the way he wanted me to.
And he DID. Other than my heart beating too fast, there wasn't any sadness in my heart because I just believe that one day this has to end and he will come home. And whatever G-d needs me to walk through I will because I have FAITH that my M will be restored one day.
THAT was MAGNIFICENT....I am so incrediably proud of you. You are truly a ray of light in the gloominess of your families struggles. You are showing your sons how strong a woman you are. Be proud.
And I am so glad you had fun too....and the stuff about venegence??? Don't worry about it...I have long thought that the best revenge is to be the best you can be, and let them see how much they are missing....
Know what my WS said to me tonight??? That he and BOW had gotten to the point that they knew that if they were going to end up together, they would only have each other....how sad is that???? I didn't reply or anything...mostly I was just letting him talk....(it wasn't a bad talk or about what it is I am not doing...he was just trying to get his feelings out and I was letting him....), but I couldn't help but think that having to depend on ONE person for everything, is it worth it??? ok...I will stop trying to understand the wayward brain again....
Anyway, stand tall my friend....and I am sure WS took much notice of you tonight....because it sounds like the whole place surely did.....
Get some sleep love.....I need to do the same thing....just having a rough "moment" right now and this was just the thing to pick my spirits back up......
Good girl!!! God should be very proud of you. I am happy that you do not feel sad, that says a lot about you.
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And whatever G-d needs me to walk through I will because I have FAITH that my M will be restored one day.
One day....hopefully soon.
I really believe in my heart that God is going to do it. Not only because you have decided to honor him by honoring your M, but because of your obedience. You have become an obedient person. Not only have you obeyed God but I noticed that you are obedient to the wise advices from Mimi. That is very hard to do for a lot of us!! I wish I could really obey God like you!!
I'm so proud just to know you, and a little envious of your little successes.
"And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to His eternal glory in Christ will Himself restore, establish, and strengthen you." 1 Peter 5:10
Sounds like God's pouring in the strength for you girl. You are truly blessed, as are the rest of us to have crossed your path.
You have become an obedient person. Not only have you obeyed God but I noticed that you are obedient to the wise advices from Mimi.
I have to be honest, Mimi's piece by piece instructions in Plan A are what brought me to this point of Plan B. She has what I want and I'm not about to not listen to her words of wisdom. I think they call it duplication is Amway. My best thinking got me here.
G-d is giving me a new lease on life and uses those on here to instruct me. I'm not about to think I know better. I'm just not always sure I am completely getting what she says. Like the engaging part.
Eh Mimi? Did I engage or not last night?
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I'm so proud just to know you, and a little envious of your little successes.
Because you and I are willing to walk through what G-d is having us do, any success I have is also yours and everyone elses. We are short changing the process, but learning and growing as he WANTS us to.
Last night I truly prayed for G-d to fill me with strength and be the person he wanted me to be. I only hope it pleased him.
I am the blessed one to have found this website, and it's been my blessings to have you in my life, not the other way around. However, I am so grateful for who I am today, and if I can help someone, then that's a blessing as well.
I thought I had already told you how WONDERFULLY you did, you FABULOUS GODDESS, YOU!!
The teacher forgets to commend her "A" students...
No ma'am you didn't and I waited for you.
Thank you. I really was hoping that I did ok. In the future, is complete darkness with WH not getting a look at me at all, or what I did really ok and to do it if I keep getting the chance?
Ok, complete darkness it is. As visible as I can be, so can I be unseen and around and completely invisible. As much as it may seem like a game, this is no game to me and I am fighting for my M.
I'm doing whatever I have to do and when you tell me to do something I am on it.
YES IT IS.... And I am STRATEGIZING AND FIGHTING AS HARD AS I CAN. I won't let my ego, my fright, my best thinking get in the way of WINNING this for G-d and giving him all the GLORY.
I love my H, hate this WW, but am fighting for my FAMILY.
Hey NOT, I have had my own flogging and promised myself that I wouldn't go there again. Not because I couldn't take it, but because I was hampering my recovery and didn't want my ownself to be the cause of my M not recovering.
She knows what she is talking about.
{{{{{{{{{NOT}}}}}}}}}}}}
Let's hope the both of us get good night's sleep.
Hey Mimi,
I'm really going to miss you. I somehow feel safer knowing you are around watching my back. I hope you have the most magical trip. Where in Europe are you going?
Queenie, I looked over towards the "mainland" and don't see a single cloud in the sky...unless you're way far back in the valley it's just got to be nice there too...
STAY POSITIVE and to STAY DARK..NO MATTER WHAT..EASY..
EASY... As long as G-d stays as my protector and guides me every step of the way.
Mark or anyone else, what is the difference between FAITH and TRUST?
L2F,
This is a day as if G-d painted it himself. It's magnificent and I will be enjoying it later on. THIS IS WHY we live her and put up with all the rain and gray. For days like this when we can look around and see the most awesome creations and know that it was G-d and it was good.
My hope is that you have a spectacular day as well. I have an extra ferry ticket to Vashon, because it's so pretty I am thinking of just hopping over and taking pictures of this.
And can CARRY ON THE TORCH in my absence or when I leave here..IF EVER...
There is NO WAY I could ever carry the torch for you. I have so much to learn still.
Please don't EVER say you are LEAVING HERE. I still NEED you. PLEASE.....
And what are we shopping for?
I want my M recovered more than anything but it would be a lie to say I am healed and the old patterns wouldn't creep up. If I am to please G-d and be ready for his timing then I have work stil left to do on me and I just am willing to ask everyone and anyone who is willing to help.
I'm here, lurketty lurking. Have been for a while now. I am always drawn to the Bee's (Plan Ber's). It a vital time for personal recovery, to break your enmeshment, to prepare for marital recovery or whatever else comes your way. I will always be a work in progress, but have gathered many tools here, on MB. It's been a literal God send for me.
You are doing a fantastic job of stayig dark. IMO, being out of sight is the best, but your example the other day works well for situations that you KNOW your WH will be attending, and you refuse to stay away.
Out of sight can mean out of mind, but I've found that the bond of husband and wife is so strong, it takes a great deal of time for OUT OF MIND to truly happen. I'm sure PWC thinks of me, as I him. It's natural. Before my last false recovery, I thought of who he once was all the time. Now, I see him as he presently is. It's just different, but I'm okay, and will be better every day that passes.
I've learned a great deal about control, and boundaries. I enforced the ultimate one, by not remaining in a loveless marriage. It has been difficult, and I'm now onto Plan D (which includes modified Plan B--no intermediary).
Anyway, I'm prattling again. I'll be around later; probalby watching a movie or two. I've got my own shopping to do. DS needs new spring wear (he was a size 6 last spring, now he's an 8!). Also, my brother's birthday is tomorrow, so I wanna get him something,too. Maybe something for me, too.
being out of sight is the best, but your example the other day works well for situations that you KNOW your WH will be attending, and you refuse to stay away.
Gotcha. I could try and argue with myself that there is NO WAY I would have missed this because of my son, but the truth is I got something out of it. And that's something that I need to work on. I still find myself having the need to prove to WH that I am a decent choice. I couldn't have missed his senior night because we interact and present each with stuff and he wouldn't have allowed WH to do it, but honestly, I could have been probably way more hidden than I was. So will keep to the darkside of hidden...
Breaking my emeshment is essential for me right now. Not just because of me, but for any future relationships. Rin is helping me with my Alanon stuff and I think I am starting to work the steps there, although I need to finish my AA steps.
My old pattern is to move from this to that, to find the happines. I know where my happiness comes from, but in daily life I get caught up in "drama". G-d wants that stopped.
When you have time, will you start sharing your tools? I need to learn a great deal about control and boundaries myself. I did enforce a boundary with Plan B I think, but I did it because everyone told me to on here and I knew that G-d was speaking through them.
So as Passover ends tonight, the journey to personal recovery heats up. Talk to you later. Have a great day...
Trusting has to do with feeling that you can rely on someone or something. It has to do with believing that there is some value that can be yours because you believe it to be true. It relates to reliability. We trust what we believe to be reliable. That is, we trust that it will be there and of value to us when we need it.
Faith, as it applies to God OTOH is really more about trusting in Him actively. It is easy to say that we believe what He promises and trust in him to be faithful to us, but faith in Him means more than just believing His promises. It also means acting as if we believed them to be true.
If we really trust God, we should act in certain ways. If we believe what He says, we should act on what He tells us to do and by so doing affirm that we are in agreement with what we claim as to trusting in Him.
At the most basic levels, trust and faith are nearly the same in meaning. When we trust another person, we act as if we trust them. When they show themselves to not be trustworthy, we react hurt and surprised because we placed our faith in them to do what we believed to be true and right by us. By breaking that trust, our own values and judgments are brought into question. (How could we have been so stupid?)
Because we know from experience that few, if any, people ever fully live up to the level of trust we put in them, we are reluctant to fully trust God. It is our own breaking of trust that can give us the most trouble in some regards. For we know that we can and have broken the trust others have placed in us. We have shown ourselves to be untrustworthy.
So when we look to God and try to trust Him fully, it becomes more difficult because our point of reference is really our own failure rather than His faithfulness. This is where we must act first in order to be strengthened in our faith. When we act as if we believe His promises and He comes through, it further builds our faith in Him and makes it easier to trust Him in other ways as well.
But if we hold back the action, if we do not act as if we trust Him, then He cannot come through for us and our faith becomes stagnant. If we trust Him, then we must act like we do and that means that we obey Him. So faith becomes the act of obedience based on trusting God when He says that He wants what is best for us even when we think we want or need something else.
So when it comes to God, faith is both trusting in Him and obeying His commands. Because while we often want what seems good or even better than what we have, He wants what is BEST for us and by letting Him give us what He wants for us, we get Best instead of just GOOD or even Better.
But we only get what He wants for us by obeying Him. For obedience is how we show that we trust Him. HE shows us that we can trust Him by giving us the BEST when we obey Him and so proves to us by His actions that we should trust Him more fully.
This does not mean that we will not have troubles in our lives, for His goal is to make us fully trust Him for everything. To do His will for us even when we don't feel like it or when we don't understand what is is He is wanting for us, simply because we believe that what He wants is BEST for us is how we can show that we have faith in Him.
People must earn our trust for us to completely trust them. For God, what He has already done shows us that He can be trusted and by acting as if we do trust Him, He honors our trust by showing us new ways we can trust His promises.
When we have everything we want, it is hard to trust Him because we feel as if we have no needs beyond the desires of our hearts. But when things do not go the way we want them to and we have needs, we also have a hard time trusting Him because we don't fully believe that His ways are BEST.
So faith is acting as if we trust Him no matter what our circumstances. It is doing what He says to do because we know it to be true. And we know it is true because He has already shown us that He is trustworthy.
I don't know if the intermediary could or couldn't. The last time he did this, he just put the money in the bank and called the A and lied. Imagine that.
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DRAMATIC expression...
Good Woman for calling me on this. I actually had the same thought and need to start changing that. Thank you for catching this.
I have an off the topic question - I was just reading this on reverse babble by Orchid.
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Reverse babble is hard to do if you are still very emotional. Can be in plan A but you need to be careful that you are not too sarcastic. Better used in plan B.
How does this happen if you are not talking and supposed to be dark?
WHY AREN'T YOU IN BED??????? (notice my Mimi caps????....lol)
to the Caribbean....anyway, thanks for the vote of confidence....I am still up as you can see....packing, cleaning, getting all the kids stuff in order....ughhhh...figure I'll sleep on the plane.....
Well WH didn't deposit his check in the bank. So I will call the lawyer.
I don't know if I have enough strength for fighting this anymore. Why does he have to push this? What is his reasoning?
Can't he just leave us alone, do his responsibility and have his happy life. I'm leaving him alone to be happy.
I'm building a life without him - that's what he wants. Why does he need to play games with me. He loves her. He wants her. Why can't he just leave me be?
Don't take it personally, although it would be hard not to. Has your attorney contacted his attorney to have WS be more dependable? Sounds like he may be having money problems. (GOOD!)
Tax refund checks are coming this week. I can hardly wait!
Oh, Queenie, you are such a good woman. Personally, I would put it in the bank for some cushion money, since hubby is so late with his portion all of the time.
By not taking it personally, I meant that it is NOT that he doesn't care about his family, his brains are just temporarily scrambled.
Oh, Queenie, you are such a good woman. Personally, I would put it in the bank for some cushion money, since hubby is so late with his portion all of the time.
By not taking it personally, I meant that it is NOT that he doesn't care about his family, his brains are just temporarily scrambled.
It's not that I am not that good a woman, I just am working hard to do what's right by G-d. The old me would have taken the money and spent it or manipulated it... etc. I don't get to do those things anymore for ME. Giving it to the lawyer is the right thing to do, whether I get screwed or not.
I have to TRUST G-d. It's just hard sometimes.
His brains could be FOREVER scrambled though too. And that's the scary and sad part.
They come back, almost always. I get so tired of writing that......... I never believed mine would, he was so completely COLD and GONE. But turned out he would have, if I'd just hung in there.
And he is just the same as when we married. It is UNCANNY!!!!!!!
I think what Believer is saying (and forgive me if I'm wrong) is to not take your WH's (frequent) late payments as being anything more than an indication of his previously displayed tendency towards financial irresponsibility.
What a loaded question! If I was sorry enough, I guess I would take him back. But I'm very much in love with my new guy. I wish I had waited longer. But come on, I waited 4 years, and we were divorced.
But he is just like he used to be, and I really miss the whole family thing. We raised 8 kids together, and the affair just ruined all of it. So many broken dreams...........
Hope you sleep well, I've been praying for you and hubby.
And I am SO HAPPY that you are blessed with someone new.
And 4 years. You are amazing for waiting that long.
That's just what I don't know. But, it doesn't need to be decided today.
What needs to happen is for me to become more obedient to G-d and seek his will for me. TRUST HIM that it will be ok and walk in FAITH that my M will be restored one day.
As for the money, pray and look for HIS answers and act on those.
Most importantly. DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE STINKIN THINKIN...it is out to KILL ME...
I won't let Satan tear me down. G-d has worked to hard to build me up...
Night Believer... I pray for you and your mom. The offer still stands, ok?
I am ok. Not nearly as shaky, in fact at peace. I gave it to G-d last night. Read Torah and prayed. I asked G-d to help me walk through this and do what he needed.
I called the A today. He made a funny comment about WH sounding sincere the last time they talked, but based on the evidence I had shown him he was giving him the run around. He said he wouldn't call him a liar. I said I would. But he said he wouldn't go there.
He will follow up on that this afternoon.
I would imagine that A's don't like to be lied to? Just a guess. And what WH might play his games with most people, but lawyers are pretty good at figuring it out or NOT?
Well I was going to come back to work last night after OS's game. Ah G-d had different plans. OS got hurt during the game and I got to spend 3 hours with him at the hospital.
He will be fine, can play through the pain. For the past week I noticed that he has been way more angry and agitated since D-day. I couldn't figure it out, then I realized that with Passover and no money I haven't gone grocery shopping to get him the food that he loves to keep his belly full and he reacts negatively to that.
Well still no money from WH, but payday was today for me so I can go get some food at least.
I'm struggling a bit today. I hvae been reading this book on mid-life crisis. I get all the addiction part, I get the mid-life crisis part. I am completely dark and staying out of it like G-d wants, I'm just sad over the situation. I took my vows seriously in sickness and health and even though WH is being a jerk, he isn't the man I married and that man would be mortified by what is happening to him.
I'm just putting it out there to hopefully get the sadness away from my heart.
I too am dealing with the Wayward inability to manage money or honor promises/obligations.
Nope.. not taking it personally either. I don't think she's trying actively to hurt me.. she just doesn't.. well.. get it, or what it means to be an adult. She's always been taken care of.. I always took care of her and was there to catch when she dropped the ball.
It'll make you go mad if you think on it hard enough.. but God sees our sacrifice and our efforts at peacemaking, and I have to believe that He is proud of us, and that means EVERYTHING.
4 years huh Believer?.. I can't imagine the strength it took to hold on for so long... I might end up there one day, but I sincerely hope not. I'm glad though that you've found that peace in your life.. I imagine after 4 years it'd be so much harder to heal had you opened that door again.
Queenie.. keep your chin up. Up days and down days right? Just ride them when you get them and keep your eyes on the One who is always faithful and loves you more than you can imagine.
I know enough today that these feelings will hurt bad, but they will subside and go away and I will feel strong again and able to keep going.
I didn't know that a year ago. And the D-day one year will be here before I know it. I'm just a little nostalgic. I have such a new appreciation for single parents, especially those with little kids. They are such heroes in my eyes who handle their children full time with no break. At least I can leave my boys alone, though it weighs on my heart always.
James, we have always walked such similar paths. How lucky for us that we have that in common and can hold each other up because we know each others pain and successes.
I still want that crystal ball though....
I miss you on here dude. I know you are taking care of yourself but I still miss you.
I'm really sorry I don't seem to be around more. I stop in every day and check up on your sitch and a few others.. keeping tabs as it were on some of the folks who have been with me from the jump here.
I am 'here' more or less.. but I just haven't been posting as much. I'll post when I figure I can help, or in cases like yours, Fox, SDGuy, Bugs etc I'll post encouragement and updates when I can.. but I just don't have the emotional energy to invest in being here all day like I was.. and I honestly think it causes me to think about the A way way way too much to just hang out here.
I'll continue being around.. and I'll make sure to post anything significant to my story.. it's a good journal that hopefully I'll look back on and learn from one day..
There is nothing to apologize for. I just wanted to make sure you knew how much I missed you.
I understand about being on here and remember the pain of the A. Somedays I want to just scream and kick at how people react in this, but then I remember that it's there walk and they are doing the best they can.
I think I am just so jealous of those whose marriages are recovering and they don't want to do the work or whatever they need to do to take care of themself. It just floors me.
I think that's when I go to the why me or why not me mode and I have to NOT go there.
All I can say Queenie is that things seem to be getting better with time, and I'm sure you're feeling that too in your own life.
I'm trusting God in ways I've never allowed myself before. I'm more devoted to my faith and making the best out of my life now than perhaps I've ever been. That is a lasting blessing that I will take away from this experience whatever the outcome.
I'm trusting God in ways I've never allowed myself before. I'm more devoted to my faith and making the best out of my life now than perhaps I've ever been. That is a lasting blessing that I will take away from this experience whatever the outcome.
I am blessed.. and so are you.
Yes I am.
I too am so grateful for my relationship with G-d and how he has protected me and watched over me.
Tell me how you are doing it though? It helps to remind me.
By the way, if you have a chance, pop over to redberries and see what is being written. Tell me what you think about her staying in Plan A?
It's no big secret. Prayer, Fasting, Trust, Faith, Hope.. and the inevitability of having to live -my- life every day, with or without her in it.
One day at a time is how I'm doing it hon.. it's how we're all doing it.
In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins... not through strength, but by perseverance.
God is like this in our lives.. wearing down the walls we build to keep Him out.. I've got faith he will work in WW's life as he loves her so very much, as I do.. and probably even more than I do.. but will it be in time to save the M? Only God knows the answer to that question.
I keep asking Him to remove the obstacles in our lives that are keeping us from being able to come together and be the people He wants us to be.. whether that is man and wife, or friendly coparents.. I -will- rejoice either way in the fulfillment of God's will for my life.
As for advising people in or out of Plan A.. I really am not a good person to ask. I've made a pretty elegant failure out of my Plan A, and am really at a point where I can ONLY Plan A.. but at this point it starts looking like appeasement all over again.
For me.. I'm keeping enough distance to keep me sane. If Red isn't legally bound into anything at this point.. I HIGHLY recommend Plan B... but regardless of how many people she has telling her to hit that point.. she won't go there until she is ready... and shouldn't.
I -will- rejoice either way in the fulfillment of God's will for my life.
I keep praying for this as well. And praying to do his will and not mine.
Please don't stay too far away, your strength helps to ground me back to G-d and it's so important for me.
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Don't let me come back here and find out that you've been doing some of that STINKIN THINKIN...
YES MA'M
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Don't compare yourself to others...
YES MA'M
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YOU ARE YOU...
This is your life..your journey..
And G-d's will to lead me where he wants me to go. I gave up that control. I just want to please him and see where it takes me.
I love you Mimi. I am going to miss you SO MUCH. Take care of yourself and have the most amazing, magnificent, incredible trip and know that your GODDESSES will be thinking of you and your well deserved happiness.
Never fear Queenie.. like a bad penny I'll keep turning up
New church sign on the way into work this morning: Don't give up! Remember, even Moses was once a 'basket' case.
Had me laughing for a good block and a half.. God's good to us.
Good morning,
You are right, G-d is good. I think I am going to start praying for my eyes to be open to his words to me. I keep asking for signs, but I am wondering if they are right in front of me and I am not getting it.
I made a comment in my meeting on Sunday night, that G-d had this brick he wanted to hit me with and was throwing it at me full force, no need for me to hide or get out of the way, just stand there and take it because it was coming. And hit by the brick it was.
Like you, I get this sitch is really about our relationships between G-d and ourselves. How it plays out, well is still and always will be in G-ds hands. But you and I are back in G-ds fold and learning the lessons that we need to as they come up. Sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly. But still learning. I can only think that G-d is proud of us for that.
Hey Chai,
No, WH still hasn't deposited S. Since I am in Plan B, I am working very hard at not going to the reasons why he isn't paying. I think it would get my caught up in his drama and I am working hard at not doing that.
So, I have no clue. However, it is affecting me and I am just cleaning my side of the street by contacting the A and letting him handle it.
You are right, G-d is good. I think I am going to start praying for my eyes to be open to his words to me. I keep asking for signs, but I am wondering if they are right in front of me and I am not getting it.
I dunno Queenie.. God's sometimes pretty blunt.. at least with me He has been.
Church signs have been the main thing for me.. at auspicious moments I've had ones such as:
'So you've been looking for a sign? Here's one!' - God (Showed up along the side of the road WHILE I was praying for a sign telling me that it wasn't yet time to give up)
"Do your best and let God do the rest."
"God wants us to BE STILL so that He can untangle the knot."
"If you pray and never receive your miracle. STAY TUNED, God has something even better planned for you."
There've been more but these are ones that really stand out to me in the recent past.
PLUS.. for those keeping track with the email devotionals we receive. In the last 9 months I've had 4 Covenant Transport trucks show up.. always on my 'down' days.. like little reassurances.
Other things have happened too.. the songs that are on the clock radio every morning when I wake up even have been little communique's from God... If you believe that God WANTS to have a relationship with you.. you've got to also believe that he'll use the best means possible to execute His end of the conversation.. we've just got to be tuned in.
I can't say I am not getting them, just I am maybe not paying enough attention.
I might even pray for G-d to be a little more blunt with me as I am not getting the signs if they are there. Hmmm... Can't wait to see what he has in store for me on this.
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"God wants us to BE STILL so that He can untangle the knot."
I absolutely love this one.
This might seem crazy, but a lot of my signs come to me as I am just sorta doing something and a thought will pop into my head. It's happened a few times now. Or when I write and my writing go to a different level.
Yes, those emails we get everyday. It amazes me how what the subject is about is something that I am working through and it helps to reinforce.
I still get frustrated b/c so many of my "real" world friends think I just need to divorce and move on. But then I read those daily emails and it says to NEVER give up. Just let G-d untangle the knot. Which I am doing.
Ok, I lied, I can't stand it and it's frustrating me. So here goes. Why, why should I ever be surprised at WH for what he does. But it still stimply amazes me.
I found out today that he called out insurance agent and asked to be reinstated. He hasn't had car insurance since January. Well, IA told him it would cost a lot of money. WH said no problem, that he had 500.00 in cash on his person.
I'm still waiting for his check to be deposited. IA knows my A and mentioned that since there is no client confidentiality clause he was going to mention the conversation to the A. But here I sit wondering what's going on and it's eating at me.
I'm praying for G-d to remove the need to know and leave it with him, but I'm failing write now.
Can I get a little reminder on this is NORMAL WH SICK BEHAVIOR - as Mimi would say GARDEN VARIETY.
Queenie, what is your attorney saying about this? You have a LSA, right? Is the support Court-ordered? If it is, why isn't your attorney filing a contempt motion? If it's not, then why isn't your attorney taking it to a judge to get an order?
I think it's fine if you post stuff here that you find out, especially when it effects your livelihood. As long as you don't use it as a reason to keep your thoughts on WH.
Approach it like this.
Fact: WH hasn't paid support. Fact: WH has money. Action: Post here in case someone can advise what action to take. Action: Call attorney and get him on the stick. Action: Give it to G-d and trust that He will provide.
Oh and WH's behavior? It IS garden-variety WH stuff. More of the same. They just never learn while they're in that state. Once you deal with what YOU can control and NEED to control, letitgo. Just letitgo.
I am posting just to get it out and see if there is anything I could be missing on what to do. Not to stay in the drama of things. In fact, I would totally prefer not to be involved in this at all.
I have to admit there is a part of me that hopes, this is his attempt to get me to break Plan B, but I won't. Not even for money. I am too committed to staying the course and letting G-d have the knot.
There is not permanent LSA. WH was served with papers. As I immediately went into Plan B, I have no clue if he has an A or not. I know that when he last spoke with my A, he said he was working on getting his own. I thought possibly he was going to take this money for that purpose. Don't know and to keep thinking about it is in the drama and not being in a dark Plan B.
I was leaving it in the A hands to see what he was going to do. Should I follow up with a call to him to see how he is handling it?
I was leaving it in the A hands to see what he was going to do. Should I follow up with a call to him to see how he is handling it?
Absolutely, because sometimes attorneys just put things on the back burner if they don't hear from a client too often (unless there are court deadlines looming). Communication with your attorney is necessary because it effects your's and your children's financial well-being. Otherwise, what's the point of having the agreement in the first place if it's not going to be enforced? Yanno?
I was leaving it in the A hands to see what he was going to do. Should I follow up with a call to him to see how he is handling it?
Absolutely, because sometimes attorneys just put things on the back burner if they don't hear from a client too often (unless there are court deadlines looming). Communication with your attorney is necessary because it effects your's and your children's financial well-being. Otherwise, what's the point of having the agreement in the first place if it's not going to be enforced? Yanno?
Queenie - I suggest you keep a journal. Do you do that? I do, and it is amazing how much it changes you. I write about my life, my feelings, and write to G_d. I know, strange. Then I watch for signs that He is listening. I know he is, but sometimes I need signs, especially in my darkest hours. It is interesting what happens. My pastor always says that spirituality is kind of like a dimmer switch. As you spend more time in your spiritual life, the light gets brighter.
I bet those tulips are awesome. Maybe one year we can see them together, and hopefully we can connect soon. How is life for you? Are you taking care of yourself?
Believer,
I actually have a journal and I do write, but not nearly enough. I will try and make it more a priority and just see what's what. Thank you for the reminder. What do you mean it's amazing how much it changes you?
I went to Friday night services for the first time since December. I didn't realize it was Yom Hashoah, or Holocaust Remembrance Day. My friend went with me and she had a nice time. I'm glad I went. It was nice to be in my temple celebrating Shabbat and having that Jewish connection. I miss it.
I know this is a waiting game or time in my life. And that's what I am struggling with... So I'll write about that I think.
How are you doing B. How is that family member doing?
Hope you are doing well. Looks like the board is slow today. I'll be here if you need to shout out.
You are doing an amazing Plan B. I think that you and I may be in our Plan B's for a while, so get comfortable and enjoy the ride. It just has to go up at this point.
Hope you are doing well. Looks like the board is slow today. I'll be here if you need to shout out.
You are doing an amazing Plan B. I think that you and I may be in our Plan B's for a while, so get comfortable and enjoy the ride. It just has to go up at this point.
Yeah, it looks like we are in for a long haul. How are we going to make it. On the one hand, I just want to give up and call it quits. WH holding back on the money just dumbfounds me on his selfishness and lack of concern for his kids.
But then G-d fills me with strength and to make a decision to not allow faith in my heart for my M to be restored goes against every thing I believe and TRUST in G-d.
I wish I could be put on ice, the pain put away and not feel while life goes on. Then be awakened if he comes home. Today was one of those days, that I just made it through because of my promise to Mimi and my kids.
I so admire you Chai to be able to walk through this alone and hold onto the love you have for your H. What an amazing person you are.
I was at the tulip fields this time last year. Absolutely beautiful. My mom is doing okay, no sun, so that is disappointing.
Hang in there, Queenie. Continue making a nice life, and put hubby on the back burner. He probably would pay the money, but is having financial problems. That is excellent.
The journaling just shows you how much you are changing. Sometimes I go back and read and it doesn't even seem like I'm the one who wrote that stuff.
Ah, the tulips. I am defintely going to have to see those one year. Hear that JT? Maybe even you Believer could come up and we can have a trip all together.
I'm glad your mom is doing ok. I keep praying for her. Yeah, hopefully the sun will make an appearance again soon. This is the hardest time of year, because you are so ready for it, but nothing.
I'm hanging in there B, putting hubby on the back burner as best as possible and making alife for me and the kids. I would almost agree with you about the financial problems, however he is carrying around the money trying to get insurance. So why wouldn't he just take care of his kid first? I'm lost on this.
I'll make a point to journal more and have that for the future. I do know that sometimes I feel like G-d is reaching me through there, so thanks for the reminder.
Yes, that would be lots of fun. I went last year with my sister and a friend. It makes me sad now, because my mom, who loves flowers couldn't come because she was taking care of my dad. I offered to watch him, but she wouldn't agree.
But I did buy her a whole bunch of beautiful bulbs and they came up this year.
When we went last year, we took a loaf of sour dough bread, some brie and fruit and had a little picnic in the rain. It was very nice.
How are your kids doing? My step son (24)came over today with his wife and two sons. It was so nice to see them. He was the one that was always closest to me. But since the affair bomb was dropped in the midst of our family, things have not been the same.
While you are praying, please pray for my sis. My mom has decided not to get anymore treatment, and my sister is hysterically crying all of the time. She is a year younger than me and a high powered attorney, but still my baby sister. She is NOT taking it well at all.
All of them are suffering as you probably know. Two worse than the MS.
My DD is still in a horrible relationship that is part abusive on both sides. I hope and pray she figures it out before it's too late, but I can't control it. I just love on her, let her grip and ask if her she is juse venting or wants some guidance.
My YS has brought his 4 failing classes up to only 2. There is still a chance he won't move up to the high school. He is the one who misses his dad the most. He is also the one who contacts him or emails him regularly, at least did.
My OS, well in many ways he is thriving, happy and enjoying his senior year despite all that has gone on. His dad absolutely has nothing to do with him whatsoever except to just show up at the stadium for senior night, but he hasnt' see or talked to him since MLK's Bday.
Last night though, he made a comment about the D. I matter of fact told him I was NOT getting a D, that his dad would have to be the one to file for that. And that I still loved his dad very much and wanted him to come home. It was weird, he didn't say anything, just nodded his head. In the past he usually had said well I'll be gone when that happens. Don't know if that meant anything, but I wasn't about to ask him right after a game.
You bet I will pray for your sister. I'm sorry she is having such a hard time. But it is and unfortunately something that we almost always go through at some point in our life. If there is anything I can do for your family along side praying, please let me know.
The last two night have been horrible for sleeping. My body is hurting and the nightmares. Is it b/c the 1 yr anniv. of D-day is right around the corner?
Sorry things are not going well for your kids. I hope daughter unloads her boyfriend. But the more you say about the relationship, the more she will probably defend him.
Your younger son is a worry too, especially his grades. My two boys are smart, but hated school, and it was a HUGE struggle to get them through highschool. My step kids struggled with school, but finally made it. They ALL graduated, and now my stepson has gone back to college. So glad all those days are over.
But you are showing them a good example, and kids usually learn way more by watching what parents DO rather than what we say.
You are so right, the less said about the BF, the better. I just love on here, ask clarifying questions and keep my opinions to myself.
I'll let her come to me.
I am very worried about YS, but hopefully the desire to drive will encourage him to do better. But its in his ballcourt.
I can't fix this or control it from happening, but just keep standing, love on them, creating a life (even though I don't want to) and praying that their dad comes home one day soon.
Queenie, I know you asked for inspirational scriptures and I'm trying to find one that was healing for me. I know exactly what it says, just can't find it. I posted it as a thread - probably one of the few I've started on GQII or IR in a year....
my scripture 'du jour' in fact of the month is 1 Peter 5:10
But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen and settle you.
Well I called the A today and said that no money has been deposited into my account. The A said he left a message with WH, and he hadn't heard back from him. Imagine that, so he was going to call him again. Unfortunately this Friday another payment will be due and I'm a little more worried, but I'm leaving it with G-d.
As for the house, something interesting has happened. Maybe... I have always felt like I am not done with that house, but I didn't know how. Well, I might have a buyer for the house, and if so, then I can move back in and rent it from him as well as set it up to be a clean and sober living environment. That would give me purpose in life and for the first time I am really excited about something.
Don't know if this is in G-ds plan, but I'm doing the footwork and will just leave the outcome in his hands. I would LOVE to have this happen.
The possibilities of my house are still in G-ds hands and that I am very grateful for.
Tonight at my PTA meeting I was presented with a picture frame with Redskins this and that stuff all around the frame with a picture in the middle of Jim Zorn and the principal of the high school, taken in 1976.
For those who have no clue, Jim Zorn is the new head coach of the Redskins and EVERYONE who knows me, knows I am the hugest fan their is.
It absolutely touched my heart that not only would the pricipal think enough of me to thank me, but that he would give me something that clearly took planning on his part and knew how special it would be. Wow....
I am humbled by this day and give G-d the glory for allowing me to feel very special and loved.
Sounds like you're doing really well Queenie.. so easy to see that God is watching out for you!
Sometimes it's hard to look past the 'circumstances' in our lives to see the blessings, but I am encouraged to see you focusing on the good in your life. That is the most wonderful blessing of all.
If I were to ignore the blessings that G-d gives me on a daily basis and focus on the negative, then I have learned NOTHING of what G-d intended for me to.
G-d is more than good, he is awesome and gracious.
Hey honey I MISSED YOU......I know we went through that on my thread, but I think you deserve your own huggs on yours. I just got caught up on what is going on in your life since I've been gone. Sounds like you are doing wonderful....not that I would expect any different....lol
That gift is awesome....I am so glad for you. How is everything else going/?? the sleep????
I found out from the insurance agent that WH no longer has a bank account and works in cash only. He also shared with me that WH feels slighted. He didn't elaborate how.
I'm just at a loss here to comprehend what is going on.
Is this what Plan B does to the WW, piss them off to where they try to destroy us financially? What am I up against here. Everyone thinks that I need to confront him, but that would be breaking Plan B. I WON'T do that, so what options do I have?
hmmmm....oh girlfriend....I'm not sure what to say....call your attorney and see what he says.....but DO NOT break up your Plan B over this just yet....
Hang in there....reach for that inner GODDESS .....
He also shared with me that WH feels slighted. He didn't elaborate how.
He coulda gone all day without telling you this. Darn!
You asked for advice. About what? If it's the fact that WH is dealing only in cash, what does that matter to you at this point? If you think he's doing it to get around paying his support, then you need to call your attorney and tell him what's up. There has to be SOME record of where the cash is coming from. Won't matter to the Judge where it's going, except for the fact that he's not honoring the agreement.
And remember. How WH feels is a direct consequence of his choosing to carry on his affair.
((Queenie)) Sorry you're having such a tough time lately.
I share in PM's sentiment here. What does is matter that your WH feels 'slighted'. He can feel whatever he wants, as long as he pays his support and leaves you be. THIS is why you have Plan B, Queenie--to buffer yourself against this crapola. It doesn't matter WHY he feels slighted either, so stop wracking your brain over that one. IT DOESN'T MATTER. This is his freshly made bed. Let him lay in it.
I would report this new info to your attorney and let it go; his FEELINGS are not your problem.
I would report this new info to your attorney and let it go; his FEELINGS are not your problem.
(((Queenie)))
I back this post!
Personally, this is just like my WW making the point to tell everyone how she's got too much 'pain' in her memories of me, and most of it coming since she left..
Guess what.. that 'pain' is self inflicted.
She can deal with that crap.. and so can your WH... if their life is turning into a turd they can blame you and I all day long, but when the rubber meets the road they can either take responsibility for themselves, or wallow in their misery.. either way.. NOT OUR PROBLEM!
The advice I am getting from people is to contact WH directly and confront him over not paying me. That would be breaking Plan B. The people who are advising me, don't understand the Plans or that I am wanting him to come home.
I think he is getting around having to pay me support. I have called the A and he is sending out a registered letter with return receipt demanding payment or he will be taken to court.
Is this typical behavior for a WW in Plan B? I thought he would just simply keep paying and live out his life happy. I am leaving him alone to be happy and moving on. That's why I don't understand.
Where it's my problem is the withholding of money and not understanding at all when he is doing.
I gave him his freedom to be with the woman he loves. I am moving on and making a good life for myself. I'm happy, why is he slighted or mad?
He doesn't want me I would think he would be jumping for joy that I have simply created a good home for his children, they are happy healthy and living life? He gets to enjoy his happiness with OW and not have to be a part of us.
The advice I am getting from people is to contact WH directly and confront him over not paying me. That would be breaking Plan B. The people who are advising me, don't understand the Plans or that I am wanting him to come home.
Since you are following the MB plans, stick to them. Any advice from outside parties is going to come from a place of worry over you, and wanting to not watch you in any pain. This process IS painful in some ways, but it is, by far, the best for YOU , in the end.
Contacting your WH is a no no. WHY BOTHER? You have an attorney--use him. Contacting him would only serve to cause more problems for you, and it would serve your own morbid curiosity, but at what cost to you? You are not going to be faced with some lovey dovey creature--he will be spitting venom, even if it is with a coy smile.
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That's why I don't understand.
You're not wayward, why would you?
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He gets to enjoy his happiness with OW and not have to be a part of us.
This is what I am not getting?
Again, why WOULD this make sense. It doesn't, so why are you trying like heck to make some sense of it. WE can't even tell you exactly why he's acting like a horse's patoot. We can speculate up and down. Just accept that he IS a horse's patoot until SHOWN otherwise.
Ok, no breaking Plan B. NO CONTACTING WW whatsoever.
WW is a monster who is spewing venom and would only do it to me.
No speculating because I can't think like a WW.
I guess I'm just plain scared. I'm scared because no matter how much I try to soften this and make excuses for him, I can't. I might have made a mess of our M, and even that's debatable, but this is just plain MEAN and I don't deserve this but more importantly neither do my kids.
I think he is getting around having to pay me support. I have called the A and he is sending out a registered letter with return receipt demanding payment or he will be taken to court.
Queenie, if you're hurting for money, call your attorney back and asked if WH can be served via hand-delivery with a copy of this letter instead of waiting for the mail. Ask him to attach a proposed "Motion" or whatever method he will use to nail him in court, just to show WH that this is serious. He is NEGLECTING his children by not paying you.
That's why you have an attorney. He does your fighting for you. He's your gladiator... or your doberman as Charlotte has fondly named her attorney. Don't think of it as fighting HIM, think of it as fighting for your CHILDREN.
It's a natural response. As long as you continue to walk in the face of fear, you will be fine; stronger even, after all is said and done.
The lawyer is there to fight, you are there to relay information to him to fight with; you give him the ammo. That's it. He's your hired gun. Let him take care of this.
You are most certainly strong enough. You've been through much worse than this. And stop blaming yourself for this please, you did not make that choice therefore you shouldn't feel bad becasue of the consequences.
I am not hurting for money until Friday. Then I have a second round of bills that will need to be paid and the boys will want food. I borrowed money for this last check, but I won't be able to do that again.
TMTS,
I don't see where he is having any consequences. He is the one living a life with the woman he loves. All he is doing is not paying me money, I am the one juggling around for money. He is paying off his bills, etc. Or whatever. I simply don't know.
SL
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It's a natural response. As long as you continue to walk in the face of fear, you will be fine; stronger even, after all is said and done.
What does walking in the face of fear mean? How do I do that?
I'm really trying here.... I'm just caught off guard by his ability to be so mean and cold. Everyone around me is being supportive but all they are doing is saying that this is who WH always was and just divorce him. Whose got a good prayer for this kind of stuff?
Wait, maybe I'll just go get on my knees and talk to G-d.
You'll hear it a lot on here, Queenie, but FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAY ( a book by Susan Jeffers, PhD).
Don't fight it and don't flee in it's presence. continue to do what you know is right, using the tools laid before you (your lawyer, intermediary, the church/synagogue, counsellors, Anon, etc.).
There is also a big fear of LOSING. You must examine what exactly you fear losing. Do you want to spend even one minute with the incarnation that is your H now? Do you want to spend a lifetime with a good, loving man? If it's the latter, then stick to your plan B, and make sure your lawyer has all the information he needs to protect you and your family.
ISAIAH 54:4 "Do not be afraid; you will not suffer shame. Do not fear disgrace; you will not be humiliated. You will forget the shame of your youth and remember no more the reproach of your widowhood.
ISA 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.
ISA 54:6 The LORD will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit-- a wife who married young, only to be rejected," says your God.
YOu don't understand why?..he does this or react like this or feel slighted (whick btw is funny considering HE'S having the affair....)...it is because you have blossomed into a BEAUTIFUL WONDERFUL GODDESS and he knows this. Remember senior night??? Oh He SAW you, and it probably sunk in that HE is not the ONLY one entitled to a good life....heck, he's probably slighted that yours looks better than his right now....its the GODDESS POWER within you....
YOu are doing wonderful...I know this is so hard honey...we are here....catch ya soon...ok....and if anything TRY TRY TRY and get some rest....
Sure you saw this in our email devotional.. but it bears repeating in light of current circumstances:
"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:10-12
Love and prayers.. may God lift you up through this Queenie.
Sorry I didn't get back here last night. I got home late and fell asleep on the couch.
Psalm 123
I lift up my eyes to you, to you whose throne is in heaven.
As the eyes of slaves look to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid look to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to the LORD our God, till he shows us his mercy.
Have mercy on us, O LORD, have mercy on us, for we have endured much contempt.
We have endured much ridicule from the proud, much contempt from the arrogant.
Psalm 125:1 & 2
Those who trust in the LORD are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever.
As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the LORD surrounds his people both now and forevermore.
I have to admit, I was beaten yesterday. I had been praying to G-d the last few days for guidance, what he wants me to do. I was feeling strong pressure to just go ahead and get the D and stop this insanity. Let Satan win, I just didn't have the fight in me b/c I am truly incapable of understanding how my WH can get to the place he is at. And he is in the dark side.
I really have been praying hard to hear G-ds message. One of my closets friends who had been supporting my stand on my M was even pressuring me to just go get the D. I couldn't stop shaking this off, no matter how hard I tried. I dropped to my knees a few times during the day, pleading for guidance and nothing.
While I was freezing at my OS's game last night, this thought popped into my head - FAITH. Just keep the FAITH that G-d is taking care of me no matter what. Remembering the basics.
And this morning, when I got up and read the Charlynne That Cares email this morning... ARE YOU STRUGGLING ABOUT STANDING?
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood..." Ephesians 6:12
Are you struggling in standing for your marriage to be restored? How are you doing in praying, fighting the enemy and believing your Lord that your marriage will be restored? Are you losing hope due to your circumstances? This is a spiritual battle with Satan and a host of evil spirits. These powers of darkness are the spiritual forces of evil.
Satan was trying to destroy another family instead of them serving the Lord and making a difference. The enemy was also working overtime to tempt me to fall into sin, by not believing and trusting my Lord for my marriage to be restored.
The battle that you face daily with your spouse is not about you and your spouse. It is a much larger spiritual battle that will affect generations to come. Satan is the father of all lies and he is out to deceive men and women daily regarding doing right versus living in sin. Never forget the enemy's plan, but know God is greater.
I believe this was my sign from G-d, because I KNOW this is a spiritual battle between WH and G-d. I have understood this for such a long time. And that's why Plan B is so perfect for me. B/c that day that G-d spoke to me, he told me to get out of the way and I am still trying to in all areas.
There is a war that is going on night and day for the hearts of men, women and children. There is a battle that is going on in the mind of your spouse. You need to have wisdom, knowledge and understanding so that you can truly comprehend how the Enemy is attacking and deceiving your spouse by wrong choices and lies from the Enemy's tricks, schemes and his false truths. The enemy is deceiving your spouse that there is no consequences to sin.
Has the enemy been attacking you with thoughts of giving up? Are you tired of all the struggles of finances, loneliness, jealousy, unforgiveness, having no patience in waiting on the Lord's timing, the fighting and now you are questioning God's will or the signs that He gave you regarding your marriage? Be on guard. Be alert. The enemy will try to tempt and deceive you also!
So, a good night's sleep, and this email from Charlynne and mostly all of you have helped me to rejuvenate and just be still, take care of me and the boys and create a life for my WH to come home to.
And I was just searching for answers on what was happening?
You are not going to find out any ANSWERS about your WH. Where is the FAITH and the TRUST, Queenie? You still seem to be having difficulty LETTING GO, putting him in GOD'S hands. "Whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see.."
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I am LIVING my LIFE. Is that why he is feeling slighted?
Did I miss something? How could you possibly KNOW anything about how he is FEELING?
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I'm just confused on what is happening?
I'm not wanting to be COLD when I say this..but, you will remain CONFUSED if you are wanting to KNOW what is happening with him.
You will only know about YOURSELF. Your focus needs to remain YOURSELF and your OWN PERSONAL GROWTH...regardless of the OUTCOME of this, YOU need to be STRONGER than EVER from an EMOTIONAL point of view...
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I want to stay out of G-ds way, but if there is something I am doing, I want to stop it.
DO NOTHING but focus on taking care or YOURSELF and your children.
Where is the FAITH and the TRUST, Queenie? You still seem to be having difficulty LETTING GO, putting him in GOD'S hands. "Whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see.."
I thought I was, I really did. It's just when it effects the kids and their food and life it hits a sore spot.
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How could you possibly KNOW anything about how he is FEELING?
Because the insurance agent told me that what WH said when he handed him over a grand for insurance.
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I'm not wanting to be COLD when I say this..but, you will remain CONFUSED if you are wanting to KNOW what is happening with him.
You have my person. I need people to care more about my life than my feelings
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You will only know about YOURSELF. Your focus needs to remain YOURSELF and your OWN PERSONAL GROWTH...regardless of the OUTCOME of this, YOU need to be STRONGER than EVER from an EMOTIONAL point of view... [/quote I know...It's just harder some days than others.
[quote] DO NOTHING but focus on taking care or YOURSELF and your children.
And when he witholds money from me taking care of my children, that's when I find the need to do something... How do I handle things then?
that's when I find the need to do something... How do I handle things then?
THAT'S WHEN YOU CALL YOUR LAWYER!!!!! That is what you can DO.
Queenie, I've been where you are, not so long ago, and the urge to DO was sooooo strong. I'm in a better place now, a place of acceptance, and grieving. I have absolutely no expectations of PWC anymore. He comes at face value now, with the face he has, not the one I have constructed for him.
Work toward acceptance that your husband is alien to you now. Focus on what your life will be without him. I know, I know. You don't want a life without him, HOWEVER, that IS what you have right now. Work with what ya got, not what you'd wish to have.
I really thought I was focusing on a life without my WH.
And I did call the lawyer. He was going to send a registered letter demanding payment or he would be taken to court.
Where I got caught up is trying to understand what set this off. He is playing his games and that hooks me in. I have to learn to become immune to them. But if he is DEAD to me, then I wouldn't be depending on him to come through with the money it would just be there.
It's just when it effects the kids and their food and life it hits a sore spot.
It still does not matter. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL, regardless of what HE DOES..and what the WAYWARD does can be UTTERLY DISGUSTING...so YOU do have a choice to DIVORCE, but what HE DOES is still the same..it's STILL BAD and DISGUSTING and HORRIBLE, etc....
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Because the insurance agent told me that what WH said when he handed him over a grand for insurance.
Well, that was a WONDERFUL, LOVING thing for the insurance agent to tell you...where's that rolling eyes icon?..WHO CARES WHAT HE SAYS or the INSURANCE AGENT SAYS?????..both are FULL OF IT...
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And when he witholds money from me taking care of my children, that's when I find the need to do something... How do I handle things then?
SL has the answers... YOUR LAWYER and ACCEPTANCE...Work on ACCEPTANCE..
Again, I think you are EXPECTING him to be like a good, responsible man would be. What are you not grasping about his selfishness? What part of how despicable a wayward can be do you think your WH is immune from? Examine why you think he's different. Once you figure it out, you won't be surprised by his behavior. AT least, I'm not.
Again, I think you are EXPECTING him to be like a good, responsible man would be.
I think you are right.
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What are you not grasping about his selfishness?
The basic concept evidently.
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What part of how despicable a wayward can be do you think your WH is immune from? Examine why you think he's different.
Again, I am just forgetting the basics and thinking that there is somewhat of a human being in there. I just got caught off guard by the level of despicable selfishness.
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Once you figure it out, you won't be surprised by his behavior. AT least, I'm not.
I think you are right.
Mimi, you nailed me. What I am realizing is that for so long I got away with blaming myself for the destruction of our M, and that therefore if I did this or that it would have changed things and I was somehow stupidly protecting him. But his latest actions just shows me what a monster he is and I didn't do anything, HE DID. So it's on him and I have to accept HIM for what and who he is.
I'm where you are hon - still blaming myself in some way. I didn't follow the plans to a T, so I blame myself for that too. I'm not sure how to get to the acceptance part either.
I'm going to follow your lead, so remember that I'm behind you. Just when I thought I was doing well, I fell apart again. I hate when that happens....
There is a huge difference between taking responsibility for the things that you did, prior to the A, to harm your spouse and your marriage, and DESTROYING your marriage.
Neither you nor Chai destroyed your marriage. HEck, the marriage wouldn't be destroyed to this day if your WS's committed to recovery.
The marriage is still recoverable as long as you are willing to do it. As soon as the BS gives up completely, as in Believer's case, there is no hope for recovery.
It's cloudy and so so temperature wise, probably more cold. We did have a severe thunderstorm watch this morning. AND to add a little excitement we had a lock down at one of our schools which involved the jr high and how the little darlings got home today. Ah.... I LOVE my job.
The time for snooping, checking up on WH and trying to figure out what effect your plan is having on him is through.
Plan B needs to get you into a mode of healing yourself and your children. You couldn't make him come back and be the husband you needed with Plan A. Now give Plan B time to work.
If you keep worrying about what he is or is not going to do, is doing or might have done all the time, you are still dealing with the affair and therefor losing love bank units at an accelerated rate. Your husband might still be in there someplace, but the alien is in full control right now. If he cared whether you and the kids had the money you need in order to live, he'd have come home by now.
Let your lawyer handle WH. You focus on you and the kids. Leave WH in God's hands and trust Him that whatever the eventual outcome, you will have a better life than what you can see right now. Go ahead and grieve the loss of you husband, but don't try to figure out what he is doing, thinking or even how he is doing physically or emotionally. Until he is ready to give up his current lifestyle, there is nothing you can do for him.
You know this already, Queenie. You know what it is like to live for the high and to he!! with everyone else. You can't have an epiphany for him...
Work on YOU. Work on the kids! Work on getting well and strong so that when WH crashes, you might have the strength to lead him home. If you are burned out or have lost all love for him, you will not want him when he is ready to join you.
But even if he is never ready to come home, you can have a better life than what you will lead by continuing to try to control him and make him wake up. You just can't live your life for him or through him. You have to live it for yourself...Heal yourself and let him fall as far as he must in order to see where he really is...
God's will is for you to be the best YOU that can be. His wish for you is a happy, healthy, fulfilled life as Queenie, not someone still stuck in limbo for the rest of her life.
As He told Joshua, "Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid..."
I thought I was doing this, building a new life, moving on. Since I seem to be getting more and more people commenting on this I am truly at a loss at how I am doing it wrong.
Don't live in limbo? Heal myself? I thought I was doing that. I guess I am confused in a way. To me, not living in limbo would be saying my M is over and it's time move onto a new love or be open to whatever happens? I am building a life for me and the boys, I am creating possibilities of getting back into my house which could almost assuredly be the end of my M, I am trying to not get scared, but keep walking through stuff.
Mark, how do I heal myself, what am I missing here?
Thanks for the vote, I appreciate it.
Maybe me stop being afraid to take actions against WH for his lack of responsibiity in supporting his children and me? That' seems to be the one piece I am himming and hawing from. Nailing his butt to the wall for this. I'm still letting him control my reactions by me be careful versus going after what's right? Is that what you mean?
I mean you are still trying to figure out what he is doing and why he is doing it and when he is going to stop doing it...
When you consider your WH...STOP...Give him no consideration at all.
If he doesn't deposit the money, call the lawyer. If he doesn't call the kids to talk to them, take them someplace special. If he doesn't care about what he is doing for you, don't care about what he is doing at all.
You can't figure him out so why bother to try?
Your husband is not making your life hell. It is your wayward husband that is doing that. That is who you need to give up on so that if your real husband ever does want to come home you won't hate him as well as the WH.
You begin to heal by not worrying about what he is doing at all. If he doesn't deposit the check, did you really expect that he would? Your H would for sure, but this monster is not your H. What you can expect is for him to do anything he can to hurt you because that is what he has done so far. Expect it and know what to do when it happens. (Call your lawyer)
Don't cut him any slack. Don't give him any credit. Don't confuse him with the husband you still love. If you do, you won't want him either when the affair is over because it will kill all your love for him.
Figure out what it is that makes you happy, that gives you joy, that brings you peace. Pursue these things and let God care for you and take care of you. WH might have to lose everything before he will let loose of your husband. Until then, take care of YOU and take care of the KIDS and take care of anything you want to care for, but figure out a way to stop longing for your husband and thinking he is the guy who is doing this to you.
You ask yourself, "How could my husband do this to me?" and you lose a little more love and respect for him. The answer is, your husband is not doing this to you, your wayward husband is doing it and wayward husbands (and wayward wives) hurt their spouse that loves them and does not care about what it is doing to the kids and doesn't even consider what anyone thinks because they are not sane and don't make rational decisions. They lie, they cheat and they hurt other people who are counting on them. It isn't just what they do; it is who they are and even what they are...Liars, cheaters and hurtful selfish individuals.
So any time you ask "Why is he acting like this?" you had better duck. 'Cause I'm coming along with a 2X4 as soon as you ask.
And yes, you should hold him accountable to deal with the consequences of the choice he has made. One of those consequences is that his primary financial obligation is to his children. The fact that he has nothing left for OW is his problem. He'd have plenty of money if he wasn't living with her and came home to you ready to do whatever it takes to right his wrongs.
I think this is a harder tall order than I realized. And without a doubt I have no other choice. BUT, it's not something that I can lie to myself and say ok, I'll do it.
It's more a process for me right now, because it goes against everything I believe and want.
I do understand what you are saying, but I don't like it. But, that's not my choice to like it, just accept it and pray to G-d for guidance on how to learn this.
I think this is a harder tall order than I realized. And without a doubt I have no other choice. BUT, it's not something that I can lie to myself and say ok, I'll do it.
It's more a process for me right now, because it goes against everything I believe and want.
I do understand what you are saying, but I don't like it. But, that's not my choice to like it, just accept it and pray to G-d for guidance on how to learn this.
I certainly can't.
...YES, it is HARD, we won't lie to you ....all the more reason to give yourself some slack...
...I have made many mistakes... what's important is to not lose sight of your OBJECTIVE.... Plan B is to protect yourself from WS's bad behaviour (as much as you can anyway!)...so that you can fulfil your responsibilities, to yourself, as a mom, daughter, friend, etc.
...you may not be able to stop THINKING altogether about WS right away ...but that is your OBJECTIVE....
...and you WILL get there... just keep putting one foot in front of the other.... and don't beat yourself up so much....
Thanks Cinder.... How funny, I am a pisces and love to swim.... I promise I'll keep swimming. Sure wish I had the sun to go with it.
Thanks Luna, I really need you all on here. I think I am just so upset because lacrosse took up so much of my time and now that's gone and I don't know what to do with myself. My kids don't want me to hang around, it's not cool.
Maybe I can be accountable to put some goals on here for right now so I can keep myself going. Ok.
So, I need to get taxes done and start to put together books on my business and make some money so I don't rely on outside factors.
I'm trying to not beat myself up, but gosh, it's almost a year and so many others on here are so much farther along than me.
Oh well, like you said, I'll just keep plugging along and swimming like Cinder found for me.
I think I am just so upset because lacrosse took up so much of my time and now that's gone and I don't know what to do with myself. My kids don't want me to hang around, it's not cool.
...sounds you hit the nail on the head...
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Maybe I can be accountable to put some goals on here for right now so I can keep myself going. Ok. So, I need to get taxes done and start to put together books on my business and make some money so I don't rely on outside factors.
...killing two birds with one stone..... this will keep busy and productive...
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I'm trying to not beat myself up, but gosh, it's almost a year and so many others on here are so much farther along than me.
...let's focus on the fact that you have been at this for a year.... and....are you still standing up?
Queenie - It took me longer than a year to start feeling good again. This stuff takes lots and lots of time.
But I DID force myself to get busy. I started a business, did volunteer work, joined a Bible study group, planted a garden, took some classes, and let everyone I knew know that I wanted to go out and have some fun.
Keep watching. G-d will bring you good things in your life.
Some people on here just seem like they have it together so much more than me. As my sponsor says, time just takes time.
Thanks for the suggestions, let me look at what I have put into place and see where I can add or take care of what I can. Today is just a day where I am tired of being cold and gray and want to just crawl into bed and make the time pass by sleeping.
I could lie and give you a bunch of reasons that try to make up an excuse. But that's all it would be - a lie.
The answer is today I don't love myself enough to just accept that I am still learning and trying and to just give myself a break and honor the great gains I have made instead of always tearing myself down. Tearing myself down is my comfort zone.
not comforting, my comfort zone.... Way different.
Things that are really comforting...
My relationship with G-d.
The sun...
It's comforting to know that I even though I am down today, I know I'm not giving up, just fighting my way through this and learning about the strength and spirit that lives inside and teacher her how to stop this thinkin on a dime.
No, I'm not. I tried a few different types last summer and had frustrating reactions to them.
Someone earlier this week posted about vitamins. I haven't taken them at all either, but I just ordered a daily and balanced health from my business and will start taking them on Tuesday.
I'm with Mimi on this one. Who do you think is so far ahead of you on their personal journey, and why does it matter? Some people, such as myself, have been at this for a while (three years for me) and I am just getting to a place of confidence.
Some people also decide to throw in the towel sooner than you, or their WS's divorce them so fast your head could spin, so it SEEMS like they are further ahead. WHATEVER, It's not a race.
I think the weather is soooo adversely affecting you, that you need to get up and get out. Turn on some dance music, shake your thang for a half hour. Laugh out loud for no reason. Watch an uplifting movie or show. Tell all your friends you need to get out. Plan a dinner party. I dunno, DO something for yourself.
I know when it's rainy and drab, I feel rainy and drab, unless I distract myself.
I've found that the roller coaster goes on and on. And may for some time to come. I'm up, happy, think that I'm going to be fine...and then boom, down I go. I think that we are allowed to have a few downs here and there. I just try to ride them back up because what else can we do.
I guess it's a grieving process, like a death to some extent. And I'm headed to 2 years dday and I don't think that I'm doing that well. Maybe some days, but some not. And as SL said, this isn't a race.
Hang in girlfriend. Someone on here (I think Believer?) said that she would make crying an event - wine, kleenex, candles, etc and get it out of her system. I've learned to do that too. I just break down, get it over with, and get on with it. Catch the roller coaster back up....
I truly feel your pain...is the sun shining there today?
It's been a long, grey winter in the PNW...not conducive to positive thoughts or mood.
For the last few years (even before A), I was not nearly as "happy" as I am right now.
Let me explain...
My "it's all my fault...my life sucks" phase was pretty ugly (yanno, plan C).
There was so much missing from my life and I didn't even realize it.
Before the A I was not happy with myself or our marriage. I was sleepwalking.
This thing really woke me up.
What I came to recognize is that my own happiness is in my hands (duh), and I'd better get cracking!
I am now so much more appreciative of all the positives in my life...myself, my own growth, my health, my kids, my job, etc., etc.
My life is good!
I picked an interesting book at the airport bookstore on one of my recent trips...I noticed it b/c of its title..."You Can Be Happy No Matter What, five principles for keeping life in perspective" by Richard Carlson. It's short and a quick read.
In it, he discusses feelings, moods and reality. Basically, when we recognize that our moods are that, and NOT our reality, it's truly liberating.
I can now say to myself..."Gee, I'm having a low mood day, but my reality is no different..."
Perhaps a little pop-psych, but it has certainly worked for me!
SL, I didn't have an answer for you on this yet, but this one just came to me and since I'm shaking I think it's a fair assumption on why I think this.
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I'm with Mimi on this one. Who do you think is so far ahead of you on their personal journey, and why does it matter?
Because as crazy as it may be to you, this is REAL to me, I'm afraid you all will get tired of my slowness in recovery and stop talking to me. I dont feel safe in any relationship right now accept with G-d and unfortunately he talks to me in his time and I am left waiting and naturally wondering if I am doing this right or that and it just wears on me.
Believer,
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Queenie - do you feel happy inside when you are doing fun things?
I feel happy, content and peace inside when I am doing the simplest, stupidest, every day things. I love my life, I love where I live - Wa State that is, I appreciate all the things I have, I find joy in almost nothing. Taking a walk, singing to myself, seeing the sun come up, looking at moon at night, watching my children play, watching my children play together when they all three are together. Most days I can find happiness, joy or whatever in almost anything.
I could lie and give you a bunch of reasons that try to make up an excuse. But that's all it would be - a lie.
The answer is today I don't love myself enough to just accept that I am still learning and trying and to just give myself a break and honor the great gains I have made instead of always tearing myself down. Tearing myself down is my comfort zone.
...looks like you are having a real rough day...
...it's just the way it is sometimes...
...but if you don't think you can manage it...or if this 'negativity' as Mimi has so well pointed out.... lasts too long... or you see as too big a burden...I do think you should consider getting some help with it....
...I consulted after D-day.... and I am consulting again with an IC to help me with plan D...
... it's a lot to juggle sometimes.... and it's totally normal to feel overwhelmed at times... just hang in there....
...usually the less I resist the quicker these 'moments' pass.... and I have often given myself a 'break' ... for me, it was sleeping in ...or having an afternoon nap... like.... 'please world, for an hour, can you manage without me? ...and check out' and it has helped....pass the 'moment'.... or...decide to have a 'pity party' as has been suggested....and make it fun!
...you are in my thoughts, Queenie.... and you WILL find your way through this.... trust yourself enough....
I'm afraid you all will get tired of my slowness in recovery and stop talking to me.
Ah, I see. Queenie, this is not going to happen. Yes, we may get frustrated with one another here and there. We're family; it happens. We WILL push you in those moments, but we are not in the business of abandoning anybody.
Keep posting, even on those rainy days, when you don't feel so great. Just know that we are not going to allow you to wallow. We'll send hugs followed by a gentle kick in that rump to get you focused.
Don't give in to it. Sometimes you need a good cry and then to let it go and get up and dance. PLAN something to look forward to, and SOON.
Queenie - It makes me so sad that you are going through all of this hurt. You are a G-dly woman, and deserve much better. And that will come. I promise you.
I was asking about depression because I've struggled with it throughout the years, even before the affair. I took anti-D's the first time I was depressed and they really worked.
After D-day, I took them for 6 months, and then tapered off. But they really help if you need them.
NO it's NOT sunny and in fact is raining. I'm really sick of the rain. I'm sick of the cold and I really think that is part of the problem.
I have really given this some thought as I cleaned my bedroom, dug out the information that I need for the taxes, watched soap operas and silly me the movie the Lakefront.
Since Jul 06 my favorite uncle and the last of my family died after being mad at me for so many years, in Sep my daughter graduated culinary school, Nov, my MS was arrested for stealing, his grades started sliding and in Jan 07 I asked WH to speak with him. MS ran away that night and was gone for almost a week. He was busted one more time for stealing and revealed to us that night he was experimenting with drugs and alcohol. In Feb my DD created some financial and personal sitch's where she needed to make a choice and live by our rules or move out. Not only did she choose to move out, but she chose to push me down, blow out my knee and escape with her car. Ultimately I was convinced to get a restraining order against her. I thought I lost my baby girl forever that day and it deeply effected me.
For over a year, my WH had withheld my most important EN, saying I wasn't safe and he couldn't trust me. It drove me nuts and a piece of me died each day. I weighted 327, hated life, was angry all the time and couldn't understand what was happening to my marriage. So to survive, I got involved in more volunteer work. My WH was creating so much chaos in our life financially, and emotionally that it kept me distracted and in a state of absolute craziness (my own dry drunk)
In May 07, D-day, my WH literally walked out on us, and hasn't for the most part looked back. Since that time, I figured out how to get the two lawsuits off our backs, made a deal with my house, although its in foreclosure now (I am working on that), I pretty much packed up my 3000 sq ft house and moved without ONE DROP of help from WH, and now live in an apt. For which my boys were angry and took it out on me, the closest thing.
I want to put a disclaimer out, I don't wany anyone to feel sorry for me or I am looking for that. I'm just in a way, giving myself a break. It's been a long 2 years and some days are just that - overwhelming from all that has happened.
After D-day, I literally took on all the blame for the destruction of the M, because I realized that I was living in a dry drunk and I did so much to hurt my M. I was inconsolable after reading on here and the books how my actions helped cause the state of the marriage and I felt guilty, horrible, etc.
I had to some extent come to terms with the type of man I was married to, that I in some ways lived in a borderline abusive relationship, but the jury is still out on that, I have lost 87 lbs, went back to AA, began working the steps, getting a sponsor, attending meetings regularly, began IC and MC, albeit alone :), I began exercising, learning how to not just take care of myself, but learned how to like me and continue everyday how to be good to myself, I addressed every addiction I possibly could have from money, sex, to food.
I always had my H to help me parent and for a year now, I have done that by myself, not having a break from them once, accept for one night when the were out late without me. I no longer have a partner who shared in any household responsibilities like grocery shopping, planning meals, you know that stupid stuff I took for granted. I have gotten to walk through the pain with my children and learn that I can't fix this for them or take their pain, just support them as G-d needs me to.
I have listened to all of you to the best of my ability and Plan A'd and B'd as absolutely best as I could, doing things when they absolutely terrified me and I didn't want to. I have learned to let go and let G-d have this sitch - some days better than others.
And now I'm scared to death because I'm worried that I don't have a lawyer who really will go after WH, and my money is running out.
As Mimi and so many others remind me, the man I know is DEAD and who knows if he will EVER come back. He spews his poison and anger out on me by making life more difficult and I am learning how to dig deeper inside and take care of myself for which is not very comfortable.
So let's get to just today, my senior played in his last game yesterday, he graduates in a month from today, and I am just one sentimental person. But tomorrow is Mother's Day and I HATE this day beyond words can describe.
If it weren't for my relationship with G-d, I would not have the desire to go on, but I promised Mimi that I wouldn't do anything and I keep to my word.
So, yes L2F, I was living a life that was unhappy, angry and destructive. I have learned so much about myself, how much I loved my H, etc and for that I am grateful. I could not ONCE ask G-d why me? Because I know why and it's in Psalm 23.
So, for today.... SL and Chai are right, it is just ONE OF THOSE DAYS and I will bounce back like I do and keep fighting and walking in FAITH. But I sure wish I could stop feeling for awhile.
Before this, I really was a pretty much happy go lucky person, who spent too much money, lived in too much anger and tried to control too many things.
Other than that I loved my life. I wanted my H to be different, more passionate, etc. And that frustrated me.
But the single piece through all this was I had NO relationship with G-d and because of that, my spirit was dying.
I don't think I have depression. I have a low self-esteem, too much self hatred but I work on that part everyday.
Thank SL, intellectually I know that you all are here, but emotionally I always thought my H would be there, and so I'm a little gun shy.
And you ALL know I appreciate the honesty and openness to make me keep going and facing the truth of the sitch. I need you all to care more about my life than my feelings, because in the end, if I start living in a lie now... I won't recover. And like someone says, the best revenge is living a good life.
Mimi, you are so right. Strategies, I really need to figure out some strategies on how to get myself out of this. Almost like a list that I can check off. One of the things I did was start to clean. If it was sunny, I would have gone walking. My sponsor told me to knock off going to the tanning place but twice a week and so I am watching that...
I love you guys. I would walk on fire for all of you if it would take your pain and hurt away. You are so right SL, we are family, bonded together in a way that NO ONE ELSE will ever understand or appreciate. BUT I SURE DO....
I had to some extent come to terms with the type of man I was married to, that I in some ways lived in a borderline abusive relationship, but the jury is still out on that, I have lost 87 lbs, went back to AA, began working the steps, getting a sponsor, attending meetings regularly, began IC and MC, albeit alone :), I began exercising, learning how to not just take care of myself, but learned how to like me and continue everyday how to be good to myself, I addressed every addiction I possibly could have from money, sex, to food.
YOU'RE WONDERFUL!! I SOOO ADMIRE YOU!! That's why I call you QUEENIE!!
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I sure wish I could stop feeling for awhile.
Isn't this part of your GROWTH, learning how to feel? Back in the day, you medicated yourself to avoid FEELING. Now you're LEARNING TO FEEL, doncha think?
Isn't this part of your GROWTH, learning how to feel? Back in the day, you medicated yourself to avoid FEELING. Now you're LEARNING TO FEEL, doncha think?
OH YEAH...
But along with the wonderfulness of those feelings is hurt and pain and today I am grateful I am feeling them because when this day is over and I feel better tomorrow or the next day, and I WILL, I KNOW IT, I will have learned more about my strength, my appreciation for all of you on here, and something more about G-d and his love for me. I have no doubt he is preparing something for me. And I keep putting one toe nail in front of the other.
Yes, I am growing and today, well today is huge growth. We just don't know how. Because I didn't escape in anyway. I just have felt things and thought about things and been with G-d and the people who I feel safest with right now. YOU ALL.....
I walked out a few minutes ago and jokingly told my YS I wish it was football, he made a remark about XBOX and football. So, we are going to go eat a nice dinner that I cooked, a new thing about me, and he is going to teach me how to play XBOX and I am going to appreciate the time I have with him.
Mimi, you are so right. Strategies, I really need to figure out some strategies on how to get myself out of this. Almost like a list that I can check off. One of the things I did was start to clean. If it was sunny, I would have gone walking. My sponsor told me to knock off going to the tanning place but twice a week and so I am watching that...
When I was in your position, I had a NUMBER of things that I DELIBERATELY DID to lift my mood...including CLEANING... probably most would call it OBSESSIVELY...but it put me IN THE ZONE..to where time flew by...
What's so weird is that I COMPLETELY STOPPED watching TV cause I found everything on there to be DEPRESSING.
To this day, I don't watch TV much at all anymore.
My H has been gone and I haven't had it on in two whole days..WIERD...
if my M gets to the stage your is, and I am not at all sure it won't, I hope I have half the fortitude you do
Trust me on this. It wasn't ME. It was G-d, people on here walking me through it and me just being desparate and willing enough to do whatever anyone said.
My best thinking got me to this place... I won't make the mistake thinking that it was my anything that got me moving on.
Ok... tonight before I go to bed I am going to make up an emergency list so to speak of what to do when..... that way I won't have to think, but have a list that I can just go to for help and then I won't have to rely on my "thinkin" but will have a plan of action.
My son is looking forward to beating the snot out of me.
As for tv, I used to watch it all the time. I'm like you. I just prefer the quiet or music.
Ok... tonight before I go to bed I am going to make up an emergency list so to speak of what to do when..... that way I won't have to think, but have a list that I can just go to for help and then I won't have to rely on my "thinkin" but will have a plan of action.
GREAT!! THAT'S PERFECT!! Have fun tonight with your son!!
Something to add to your 'go to' list, if you like.
Whenever I want a quick lift in spirits, I listen to the song "Lovely Day" by Bill Withers. It's a great song! I'm listening to it now, for my Mother's Day mojo, 'cause it's not so lovely outside today, but I'm blessed and want to evoke that. Just a thought.
I can't play it right now, but I will later. My DD and her BF popped in. They were going to his mother's house for dinner, but ended up wanting me to cook. How's that for a mother's day gift.
I was praying for G-d to give me some guidance on where and what do I need to do in life. I really want to just give up, but I could NEVER live with myself. But somehow I need to get some purpose in my life. And lo and behold..
She wants me to contact the JFS in Seattle for volunteer work in addicition/recovery from a Jewish perspective. I have her email and number. I think I might give her a call and see.
I think that is a wonderful idea for you. I think that you are perfect for something like that. Helping others is what you do very well. After all, you have helped me through some tough days!
I know we are going to make it, but I just don't know how yet....
Queenie - While the affair was at it's height, I had the honor and privilege of working with the returning casualties from the battle of Fallujah. It came up suddenly, and all I did was empty bed pans, answer the phone, give them water, and ask if they were comfortable or needed meds.
It was such a blessing to feel so needed. It really changed everything for me.
I know that G-d has something wonderful in store for you. He will speak to other people and show his love through you. He is doing that already.
....They were going to his mother's house for dinner, but ended up wanting me to cook. How's that for a mother's day gift.
I was praying for G-d to give me some guidance on where and what do I need to do in life. I really want to just give up, but I could NEVER live with myself. But somehow I need to get some purpose in my life. And lo and behold..
She wants me to contact the JFS in Seattle for volunteer work in addicition/recovery from a Jewish perspective. I have her email and number. I think I might give her a call and see.
....a purpose.... a plan.... some FOCUS.... and you are doing sooooo much better!
...and if you HANG ON long enough... it DOES pass!
I did make it through. It's so hard when the sadness takes hold, but sometimes its best to just let it go where it goes and then just know it will end sooner. It used to be later, but now sooner.
I have DECLARED there are NO MORE WEEKENDS for this BS. This is definetly a trigger for me. So, I need to somehow plan out a different approach. Not sure yet, but I am working on it.
Hang in there girl...you are doing so well. Hopefully I can do as well as you. Heck, I haven't been in Plan B a day yet, haven't talked to WS in 48 hrs. and I miss him terribly. It is so hard....and I know, gotta get him outta my mind.....but that is SO much easier said than done. So now I will be looking to YOU for guidence....
Anyway, now that I am the one with some sleeping problems....lol..
anyway, you are doing great...adn I am with you..gotta think of something to do during those weekends...
We can just hold each others hands through this time. It was hard at first. Actually not seeing him or talking to him wasn't as bad, but the NOT looking at his phone logs or the emails between him and YS really were the hardest. I still have a twinge, but not nearly as bad.
I spoke with the A today. Told him that WW didn't deposit the money again. He asked me if I had any idea what has set him off. I said, I might. And then went on to explain that I haven't had contact with him since March 17th at all. Therefore I am not keeping him abreast of what is going on in the children's lives. I told him about senior night and him seeing a family that is moving on and not just moving on, but healing and being happy and I think he is mad and taking it out on me.
He pretty much poopoo'd that. He took the liberty of drawing up another letter that went out today demanding he deposit the money by Wednesday or he would be summoned to court. I asked him about the cell phone and gym membership. He said wait until Wednesday and see then. To keep him posted.
Not, these are hard times for you and me and so many others. My spirit was pretty broken this weekend. But, so many on here kept with me, hit me with 2 x 4's and then let me wallow in it for a little while. I HATE this. I HATE who he has BECOME.
This is BEYOND just a M breaking up when someone completely abandons his children for a crack ho with hepatitis C. I am glad that the year of firsts is almost up. I made it.
I'm working hard to build a life without him. You can do this too. I know you don't want to, but you want your M. What if Plan B really is the only way to get them back home?
My spirit is back because G-d lives inside me and works through you all. And you all helped me through this or at the very least just walked with me. And sometimes that's just what we need, someone to hold our hand and keep putting that baby toe in front of the other.
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numerous needs are not being met.... how much more normal can you be?
NUMBEROUS NEEDS weren't met by WH for MANY MANY years. SF was my biggest one and I have to say that throughout our ENTIRE M he CONTROLLED it, WITHHELD it, and made me feel dirty in one fashion or another.
It was the lack of this needs that drove me to volunteer and figure out how to survive and feel like a human being.
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....so the question is: what is it that you need?.... and what can YOU do about it, that is within YOUR CONTROL, given the boundaries you have set?
...to have WS wake up and come back is not an option, you see, because it's NOT up to YOU!
I KNOW, but I don't know what I need. Can you help me figure it out?
I do nice things for myself, I take care of myself by getting a pedicure when there is money or my nails, I exercise, eat healthy, spoil myself by tanning. My goodness I get admiration and appreciation in my regular life way too much. I have my children and have independent time and recrational time.
My biggest EN is SF and I haven't had it for over 2 years NOW.... Any ideas.
I have been reading your posts to others for the past couple of days. All I can say is I am SO proud of you. You have learned SO much and come SO far and now you are sharing what you have learned to help others.
That is what I always thought this place was all about and though there have been a few tense and intimidating moments around here in recent months, you, Dear Queenie, have restored my faith in these forums.
You are going to not only be fine, Queenie; you will be great!
And others will be better for your experience and wisdom and compassion...
I have been reading your posts to others for the past couple of days. All I can say is I am SO proud of you. You have learned SO much and come SO far and now you are sharing what you have learned to help others.
That is what I always thought this place was all about and though there have been a few tense and intimidating moments around here in recent months, you, Dear Queenie, have restored my faith in these forums.
You are going to not only be fine, Queenie; you will be great!
And others will be better for your experience and wisdom and compassion...
I am honored to know you, Queenie.
Mark
You sir, have truly touched my heart and soul with these words. But you and I both know, it's not me, it's G-d and his untiring patience in working in me and through all of you. What I give is only what was given so freely to me. This forum saved my life, and it's because of you and SO MANY OTHERS, who just kept walking with me along side G-d.
This is G-d's glory and G-ds work. How awesome for him is this. He must be smiling down right now on us.
Thank you for this gift of words....
And the honor of knowing you and walking with you through this is all mine. You are an inspiration and someone who has become very important to seek out for the wisdom. I love your words...
I am SO GRATEFUL to G-d for you. I remember the terror that one day when you told me to CALL him. I didn't think I could do it, and you HELPED me to do it anyway.
You touch lives that very few people take the time to do. Thank you....
I hope I get to meet you one day, face to face and truly hug you with all my love and respect for how you stuck with me.
You touch lives that very few people take the time to do. Thank you...
And I'll say...
Amen
to this.
You know we might come here for the very worst thing in life. But like JT said so often, He will turn it into good. And he has. Because we get to glorify him by helping others and learning and growing as He wants us to.
Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. But the promises always happen if you work for them.
Hi Queenie I read your stitch daily although I do not post often.You have such wonderful people helping you through this awful time.I REALLY admire the way you have stuck to plan B...I know how hard it is in the beginning... Whatever happens at the end of all this,you can be very proud of yourself with everything you have accomplished..
Your self discipline is astounding.. I have been thinking about the positives in my life since this has happened and have realised its up to us to be in control of how this time affects us.I now make a conscious effort daily to not let WH get me down..very hard I know.. I won't let WH have that POWER or influence over my life... WH is not the be all and end all of my life..won't allow it even if he came back!!
A quick question: Is a Plan B advised even if there was no actual 'affair'? There was pornography involved, and lied about, and to me (A Christian) it's almost the same thing.
Well D-day one year is here. So, the last of the first today. Whew... I'm glad that's over. I am actually doing great today, yesterday not so good. But it was a good day for G-d I think.
I tell ya, you certainly find out who your friends are through this time. And the ones I thought were my closest turn out to be the ones who have done me a great deal of damage. I know not intentionally, but in their world they hate seeing me hurt and don't understand what I am caught up in.
Which brings me to the days' thought. For some, you may think I am totally off the mark and for others maybe not so. One common theme throughout my journey since "my talk with G-d", was that this is a spiritual war that both WH and myself are involved in. I choose to live in G-ds world and fight for what is right and WH chooses to live in evil and sink lower.
I'm scared, I have to be honest. I am really beginning to grasp the depth of evil that my WH is caught up in. But I know there is NOTHING I can do, but pray and keep walking in G-ds path and will. I'm scared for me as well, because I'm tired and I am one who has such a dark past myself and I know Satan is just waiting around the corner for me.
I was given this book called Lord, Is it warfare, teach me to stand. I'm not sure where this is taking me, but today I feel strong to walk through today and fight evil as G-d needs me to.
Who else understands this and can offer their words to help make this more clear. I think that's what I am missing, clarity. I have to learn to seek the truth from G-d and I'm reaching out to you as one way because I trust you all so much.
Sweetie, I know today is probably much more difficult than you have let on. I know,,,I think I did pretty much the same thing as you. Stood where I needed to stand for me, knowing it was the right thing for me even though it didn't make sense to anyone outside of a few on MB.
The pain is there, but we learn to deal with it. By God's Grace and our own determination, we stand for our marriages and for our husbands when they can not or will not. It matters not which, because our stance is about ourselves more than anything.
I 'get it".
Have you remembered recently to acknowledge what an amazing, wonderful woman you are? Don't forget to do that!!
Sorry I'm not posting much these days, but it's just no conducive to where I am in my life right now. I try to read a couple of times a week to keep up with threads/posters from my most active times here. I don't do much with newbies, as I don't know that I have a whole lot to offer them. To be totally honest, the pain of reading about new pain is often too much for me. That's incredibly selfish of me, as so many people here have helped me so so much. Someday I hope to be stronger so that I can hopefully be more help to others.
One of my favorite books is "This Present Darkness". It is a Christian book, and gives you a great picture of Satan and his demons. Whenever someone was depressed or tempted, the author would describe the demon hovering near, with slimey lips, grunting and waiting for the person to give in.
It gave me a wonderful word picture, and for YEARS afterward, when I was feeling down for whatever reason, I would envision the demon on my shoulder.
Just remember to feed your spirit and starve out the world.
And after the affair, and ensuing turmoil, I got rid of a lot of friends too. I have a much higher standard now.
I read an article one time that talked about high standards for friends. One person said that a friend is someone who would hide my from the Nazi's. I'm not comparing my heartache to what the Jewish people went through. But the whole traumatic thing really changed the way I look at things.
Queenie I understand TOTALLY what you are saying.I have been feeling the same way for about a month now.Its so much easier to give up and give in...Ever since I slipped up with that guy(my mistake)I know its easier to allow someone else to fill your ENS and have some happiness in your life instead of waiting for something that has a high probability of not happening.
Sometimes I feel I'm been hypocritical by praying for my marriage when my heart is not 100% in it.I feel disillusioned..I know this is satan at work and its hard to shrug off.I feel that my stand must be 100% or nothing..
Believer I like your analogy of evil demons..I am going to try that thought process...
I miss you so much, but understand you have to take care of yourself. Come back when you can and just know how much you are missed.
B - I am doing my best to fight, but it's hard and I'm scared that it isn't making a difference in the end.
Hope, I am not self-disciplined. I am just walking in faith because in the end, that's really all I have.
Update on stich... A sent WH a letter demanding payment by yesterday. WH didn't make it. I called A last night to tell him that and spoke with him this morning. He said he hadn't heard from WH. I asked if I could cancel the cell phone, he said that he hadn't listened to his messages, but that he didn't think he would hear from him. So I called the company and had his phone suspended.
Guess what, WH called A last night at 8:46 pm, I know because I checked the phone log. So what do I do? If I hadn't checked, I wouldn't have known, but I do know and I don't want to be difficult or play games? Should I wait to hear from the A and see if WH left a message for him or play ignorant and leave it alone?
Nah.....you are doing fine Queenie.....hang in there. Our WS do not like to make things easy for us do they????
It will all work out in the end. Glad to see you are doing better over-all. And you are, don't sell yourself short. And if WS don't come back, there is some nice white-knight out there for us when we are ready.......someone who will love us correctly....
It's funny, I go and do something that sets a boundary and I am already second guessing myself or trying to take it away
Don't second guess yourself....I've done that for weeks now, and look where it got me. WS stringing me along saying he's in NC with the BOW...which we know now, with undeniable proof, that was not true......
I have to tell you, I sometimes wonder which is worse, a WS who throws their A in their BS face like yours, or one who sneaks around making the BS out to be crazy when all along they weren't????
This boundary thing is really hard. I hate doing this, but you know he didn't have to not make the payments or he could have done so much instead of this game. I just don't want to appear like I am being unreasonable and scorned person.
oh, in his foggy little head you will be, but that is for him to deal with, not you...YOU know the truth and your truth...and maybe if our boundaries had better years ago, then things would be different than they are today....another life lesson YOU and I have had to learn........
I know that anything I do regarding WH will be unreasonable. I meant to the sane world that is watching me walk through this with dignity and grace as well as the courts.
I don't want to seem unreasonable and that I did everything that was fair to him.
From the little bit that I have read, you are amazing!! I think I'll print your post and read it one night after slipping into my pajamas and getting ready for bed. It's probably just as good as any other story, only it's not fiction.
Thank you so much for stopping by. I wish this wasn't my story at all. Thanks for the compliment, but it's the folks on here and G-d and AA that has given me the strength to get through this. I still struggle so deeply, but all in all. It's been a roller coaster ride that I would love to get off soon and have this be over.
I have learned so much, have worked so hard to change and be the woman that G-d desires for me. As well as keep hoping and trusting that my WH will be home one day. Though it doesn't look very good. He is so lost in the dark place.
I hope you'll come back often and post. I love to talk to people.
Queenie, just to reiterate what others have said, this is all your WH's stuff. Do your part and then let it be. He has a responsibility, cut and dried. It just happens to be something that you have to deal with. If this were any other transaction, the 'company' on the non-receiving end wouldn't sweet talk him or be nice. It would be handled as business.
Even in your head, you are trying to cushion his fall. Step out of the way, lest he fall on you.
And, who gives a flying fart how he thinks of you, even if he thinks you are vindictive. That's today, in his wayward state. If he ever dislodges his head from his [censored], he will think differently. Don't worry over this.
Even in your head, you are trying to cushion his fall. Step out of the way, lest he fall on you.
You are so RIGHT and this is the ONE THING I have always done, is fixed things for him.
I'm not worried about how he feels about me, but other people and the courts. I don't want to seem unreasonable and in the end get screwed financially. I want to walk through this with the court thinking I dealt fairly with what I had to deal with and not try and be vindictive. See the difference.
WH will do and think what he wants. I won't even go there. Not anymore. WOW, this is HUGE FOR ME...
Um, how is it at all unreasonable that he pay CS? What court in the world do you think would see that you asking for the bare minimum is vindictive? If you cannot afford to pay for his phone, then cancelling makes sense to me (if I'm reading right and you are paying for his phone?). If it's between your kids being fed and clothed, and your own financial well-being, vs. your WH having a phone, well, again, what court would fault you for that.
You have to drop the idea that he will not survive without you helping him. LEt him live it, Queenie. He can.
I don't think you have ever posted to me before. Thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it.
Ok, gym membership tomorrow. Today is Celebration of Learning at our school. It is the most festive time at our school and the sun is out and it's supposed to top 80. Oh what a glorious day.
I have to tell you, my very favorite collection next to football team, winnie the pooh is sunflowers. I LOVE your name.
Setting this boundary is the hardest thing for me. But I am doing it and your right, I wouldn't have known if I hadn't checked. I won't do that again. In my little defense, this is the 1st time I have looked at it since March 24th. From someone who checked all throughout the day, I would give myself a HUGE pat on the back.
I don't think unreasonable at all. I just want to handle this correctly and with class.
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What court in the world do you think would see that you asking for the bare minimum is vindictive?
Well I'm not asking for the bare minimum, he has been paying me half his paycheck and that's what I am asking for.
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If you cannot afford to pay for his phone, then cancelling makes sense to me (if I'm reading right and you are paying for his phone?).
I am paying for the cell phone, it's on the family plan and the money is due. If I don't pay the bill it gets turned off for all of us.
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If it's between your kids being fed and clothed, and your own financial well-being, vs. your WH having a phone, well, again, what court would fault you for that.
I have no experience with courts.
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You have to drop the idea that he will not survive without you helping him. LEt him live it, Queenie. He can.
Not only he can, but he has. I just have made it as easy as possible by leaving him alone or Plan A'ing him. I haven't ever said, you crossed the line and I am taking care of myself and the kids and if that's an inconvenience, too bad. But then again, up until a month ago he was giving me the money.
You are handling it correctly, by calling the attorney, and informing him and letting it all be handled by the legal eagles . You aren't doing anything illegal, are you? Again, I think you are of the thought that the courts delve into your emotional state. They don't care how your WH feels about you asking for the money; they only care that it is legal and agreed upon.
If it's not agreed upon (in writing) then I suggest you work on that. I can't remember what kind of an agreement you have. Soooo many threads, so many similar situations. I get confused
Now, if you were THREATENING him, that would be different.
And with the family phone plan, can't you get separate accounts? It's not IMPOSSIBLE to do; it may cause you to incur a fee of some sort, of course.
I dunno, we can make all sorts of excuses. What's best for you may not be best for him, but he no longer wants to be your concern, right?
I wish it was. But it's not and he CHOSE that, NOT ME.
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You aren't doing anything illegal, are you?
Certainly not knowingly and if I find out I am, then I will stop it. Might gripe though.
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If it's not agreed upon (in writing) then I suggest you work on that.
The only thing I have in writing per an agreement is WH using a letter to help him get a reduction at the food bank for his electrical bill. I wrote a letter stating at the time he was giving me half his paycheck for spousal and child support. I asked my A if it was ok to write and he said yes.
The LSA isn't a done deal. We served him papers, he has no A that I know of and when my A asked him about what he was doing, WH told him he was working on it. WH did agree on the phone to A about depositing the money and gave him some excuse that my records refute.
Other than the Plan B letter, and huge hug and telling him I was setting him free, I have had NO CONTACT whatsoever since March 17th.
Here is the interesting thing about the cell phone. When WH left his job in February he made the comment to DD he no longer needed the cell phone and he wanted me to get it put into my name. The account is in his name. When I gave him the PBL, I asked for the cell phone back by March 28th. Nothing... I didn't contact him and just left it alone. This morning when I called to suspend the account I asked to get it into my name. Since the account is in his, he will need to be the one to do it.
No, he is NOT my concern. But I also really want to know that I didn't handle this wrong and when all is said and done, I did everything humanly possible to walk through this gracefully and fairly. However, if he really tries to mess with me financially, that is a hot button for me and I will be here often.
I'm scared that doing what I did today pushed him farther away.
And you wrote something on Not's thread about WH being in love with the OW. That just hit me dead on. I really think it dawned on me, he is completely in love with her. I can't compete because I'm not her.
I'm the one he is running from and forget.
In one way, more and more I understand the letting go, which happends naturally. I'm scared over the money, and my heart is plain broken. I'll heal, I know that. But it hurts.
And I think I am just grieving a little more each day understanding that my H is DEAD.
I'm scared that doing what I did today pushed him farther away.
To me, it seems like you have a hard time giving up this sense of yourself as being ALL POWERFUL and IN CONTROL. YOU didn't PUSH HIM farther away. You only have control over yourself and it's your job to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF and your children.
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And you wrote something on Not's thread about WH being in love with the OW. That just hit me dead on. I really think it dawned on me, he is completely in love with her.
WSes are "IN LOVE" with the OP. Why do you think he is with her if he has not "FELT" love for her? I had to accept that myself BUT I also said that I believed that my H could love me AGAIN and HE DOES. I can't say that will definitely be true in your case BUT it can happen when and if he overcomes HIS ADDICTION to her.
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I can't compete because I'm not her.
THIS IS THE STINKIN THINKIN. YOU ARE YOU! YOU DON'T WANT TO BE HER. She is not even on your LOFTY, HIGH, REGAL LEVEL!! You are like a DIAMOND; she is like GLASS...He's living in a PIG STY with her...YUCK...
There is NO COMPETITION..She can't COMPETE with YOU...You are HIS WIFE..she is a HO...
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And I think I am just grieving a little more each day understanding that my H is DEAD.
You don't want the OLD HUSBAND anyways...the OLD HUSBAND betrayed you by having an affair...
To me, it seems like you have a hard time giving up this sense of yourself as being ALL POWERFUL and IN CONTROL. YOU didn't PUSH HIM farther away. You only have control over yourself and it's your job to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF and your children.
Obviously I need more work in this area and understanding all of it's my job to take care of myself and my kids. You are so right. My whole life, up until this past year someone else took care of me and honestly, I liked it. I just need to figure out how to change my thinkin and just accept it for what it is. Not to mention the all powerful and in control crap that I have to lose. This will be one of my greatest accomplishments as I move forward, eh?
I'm trying really hard to get all this stuff and learn. There is SO MUCH... But as long as I keep trying, then there is FAITH and HOPE in ME to overcome what I have to learn.
Is it ok if I keep my wedding rings on. Somehow they help remind me I am his wife, while everyone else tells me to stop and take them off.
Where would we be without our Mimi???? Honey, I was following you last night...(sigh). Seems we all were having a rough night of it. I couldn't log on because of puter problems, and man did I want to...especially for KDL.
Yes, the "in love" thing...
Hard thing to grasp isn't it. I can remember back in Plan A thinking about this, and it hurt so very bad. The truth sometimes does that.
And the thing about being in control??? I have never considered myself to be quite like that, but when your life goes like ours has, its hard not to want to do that....trust me. I want so bad to let WS know that I saw his phone records and know the truth that he seems to be blind to, but then that would be me controlling the sitch. He needs to come to the realization that he wants me and his family on his own. He accused me before of wanting him to lose everything and leave him alone and destitute (and he doesn't even ever have a flare for the dramatic....rolley eyes here....lol), but I did not do this...and as far as losing "everything", I am still here.
Your husband is in this same position. And if they think that we haven't worked our tails off, then they are truly blind. And one day the clouds will part and they will see what they have missed, the one that was before their very eyes the whole time. The ones that loved them, even through their dispicable behavior....
The wedding rings??? I don't know what to tell you. Mine broke years ago and I have never gotten it fixed, so I haven't worn mine in years, so its not an issue I have (Thank God, because I have enough....)
So lets move out of this awful line of thinking and have a wonderful weekend with our children
Jilly
ps...sorry this seems so disoriented. I am at my mom's and she kept interruptin my train of thought......
And if they think that we haven't worked our tails off, then they are truly blind. And one day the clouds will part and they will see what they have missed, the one that was before their very eyes the whole time. The ones that loved them, even through their dispicable behavior....
Here is the faith issue. If I could be told that WH will wake up one day, reasonably soon and realize what he has done and want to come home, I could totally wait. BUT the reality is, WE DON'T know that and so I have to learn to figure out what I want to do and that's scary to me because I could move on, build a new life and regret my decision. I don't want to do that.
The rings.... yes I don't know what to do. I'll keep praying for guidance.
Jilly, the hardest thing for me to get is that I have no clue what WH thinks or doesn't think. I don't know this person. I know him to be someone I don't like and don't want to be around.
So, the unknown frightens us and yet we have to keep pushing forward as best as possible.
This may seem so obvious to people, but admitting to myself that my heart is simply broken is into thousands of pieces made it easier. I'll recover, but it's broken today and I am giving myself a break.
And if they think that we haven't worked our tails off, then they are truly blind. And one day the clouds will part and they will see what they have missed, the one that was before their very eyes the whole time. The ones that loved them, even through their dispicable behavior....
In my sitch, I've always tried to focus on having faith that I will be okay, good even. I AM today, so that faith paid off in spades. I have faith that I'm not going to ball up in a corner and stop living MY life. My WH is only a part of that life, and to give it all over to him would be a cryin' shame.
Have faith that you will have what you need, in the end. If your WH does wake up in time, then great. If not, you will be mended, Queenie, to the point that it no longer matters what your WH chooses. Have faith in THAT.
for me, with the ring, I feel like Frodo Baggins, and the ring weighs heavy on me. I don't wear it now, but I've worn it on and off over the past three years. When he left, they came off. Didn't make me any less married, but it was easier for me to eradicate him from my mind without that hunk o metal on my finger. The old marriage is dead.
Have faith that you will have what you need, in the end. If your WH does wake up in time, then great. If not, you will be mended, Queenie, to the point that it no longer matters what your WH chooses. Have faith in THAT.
SL, some major wisdom in that. I do know I will be mended one day. It just is taking longer for whatever reason and I still have much to learn and grow weary, but then there are so many days, when I am stronger and just am able to live in today.
Ah... what a simply, yet hard concept.
One day at a time. Because really, when I am freakin about the future, I have no business being there, because I am missing today. And today really is all I have.
And if they think that we haven't worked our tails off, then they are truly blind. And one day the clouds will part and they will see what they have missed, the one that was before their very eyes the whole time. The ones that loved them, even through their dispicable behavior....
EXACTLY!! YOU'VE GOT IT!! DING! DING! DING!
Ohhhhh....I get an A for Mimi...score one for Not....
[/quote] "The LORD works in mysterious ways..." [/quote] I need to let the Lord work in this way. I could put them over on my other hand where widows wear them. Because my H is DEAD.
Hey Not, It's an awesome day when we get an A from Mimi.
It's going to almost 90 here in the PNW. This GODDESS is spending the day tomorrow on her butt colorizing her skin into what SHE likes. And reading a book.
I really believe that the weather and grey after so many months takes it toll on me.
G-d certainly is giving me a little more experience in learning how to not control something or understand that I have NO CONTROl in things.
My A called me at home this morning to tell me that WH called and he wants to tell me about the situation. It's now almost 6:00, no call back from A and my mind is active with us going into a weekend. So this will be a test for me to turn it over to G-d, and somehow not think about it and just leave it in his hands. Pretty smart of him don't you think?
G-d that is. I could use a little help right now, because you can imagine that I am really circling on this one.
Correct that, I wonder if this isn't a lesson in my FAITH, digging down deeper for asking for STRENGTH, G-d seeing who I am turning to, and giving me a humble nudge to learn to take care of myself.
So, I need to feel like I am moving forward and not sitting around waiting to be the victim.
The way I see it, for whatever reason WH is withholding money. I could really begin to guess about this, but the TRUTH is I don't know what his reasoning is, or if it's valid.
So the issue becomes, learning to provide for myself and the boys. Ok, so, I can 1. go to the food bank and get assistance. 2. see if my PTA will advance me a gift card for gas until I get pain at the end of May 3. get a 3rd job 4. and build my business.
So, I am putting it out there, and not going to push it. I sell Amway products and if anyone is interesting in buying something, I could use the retail business. Now that's the end of that part...
So any other ways I might be able to handle this that I am not looking at?
There you go honey.....put yourself in G-d's hands and get to thinking and hyou come up with some good stuff. Yes, you cannot fix today, and no need to worry about tomorrow...it only "borrowing trouble".....
And honestly, I don't think you need to worry about what G-d may be trying to teach you at the moment....it may be not what you think anyway. Just lean on Him, and he will take care of you.....and you will be fine. Heck, you will be better than fine, because you are alive, and healthy and beautiful.....
Amyway is a soap business for over 40 years that has good and bad connotations to it. People can get involved IF they want, but really I just want to sell any products from water, to soap, to makeup and earn money to support my kids.
Many have very strong opinions which I don't want to get involved in. I just want to put it out there and if someone wants something then they can contact me. So you are all SAFE.
G-d certainly is giving me a little more experience in learning how to not control something or understand that I have NO CONTROl in things.
That's one of the things that drew me to God. The realization that I have no control over anything and that God has control over everything... In many ways knowing and accepting that is like a weight of resposibilty has been lifted off my shoulders. It's in God's hands.... it's always been in God's hands and it will always in Gods hands... I just need to learn to listen to him and follow HIS plan...
I understand that you and I aren't of the same religion... But we do have the same God.
Amazin, do you want to buy anymore products? I have access to LOTS and LOTS....
JJ, I do feel like we are the only ones on, and I am thinking I should be heading out the door to my alanon and aa meetings. I need space in my head taken up.
much better..I'm at my neighbors on her computer....long story....anyway, DD11 wasn't feeling well so I had to go and make her feel better and then DD14 came home and had a GREAT talk with her....so I am doing well. Like I told my sis....nothing like your kids troubles to pull me out of my pity party....
Anyway, I am headed home and going to snuggle with my kiddies and have agreat night sleep....
{{{{{{{{{{{{Mimi}}}}}}}} I know we will be in touch and in each others lives. For that I am certain, because we fight the same fight and understand. You still have much to teach me girl... So you aren't out of the woods yet.
I don't know what's going on, but it is weird and unsettling.
But we are stronger together and Marriagebuilding is why we are here. I for one won't let them lose my focus.....
And now my dark Plan B.....
I think you all will be very proud of me for not freakin out and staying in G-d over the money deal. I'm a little nervous, but as Mimi taught me, have FAITH....
Well, poop! YEah, I saw the calling Mimi thread disappear. I was the final poster to that thread and think I said something to close it, about respect and tone. Don't want to get your thread erased, Queenie, so I won't post it here. Let's just say I didn't agree with how this has been handled.
Let's talk weight loss. You stand by Weight Watchers. For someone who is broke and needing to eat cheap, real cheap. What options do you think I could do?
For me, I never tried Weight Watchers or any of the 'programs'. The only big success I've had with weight loss was called Protein Power - which is an Atkins-like diet. I lost 20 pounds. When I went off it, I only gained 5 back. Shortly after I got pregnant with DD and gained again,,,,,but it was worth it!
I know it will sound like an FDA add, but I've found that a low fat, balanced diet with lots of fresh produce with daily exercise to be the best long term solution for me. It's not always easy to do,,,,and I often fail for weeks/months at a time, but it does work for me.
Plus, I find when I take the time to exercise, it also gives me some good quiet time mentally & emotionally. I use that time to read, or pray, or just to go blank on the mental front. THAT refreshes me sometimes more than the physical exercise.
Thanks Mimi and Cinder... I will check them both out tonight when I get home from my AA meeting.
Well Bugs,
I have lost 87 lbs, and gained almost 10 back and I can't seem to get on the path to losing again. I'm not willing to give up, because I feel so much better. So I am looking at options of how to establish a eating plan, but understanding that with my new money problems, I have to be careful what I choose.
It really is about eating less and exercising more, but my body lost it all so fast I am trying to jump start it a little.
I did the WW core program online (no meeting, but weekly tallies of weight loss to track you), which consisted mostly of lean meats in servings the size of your fist and as much fruit and veggies you can eat. I ate lots of eggs, avacado, baked potato, some bread, lots of fruit, cut out processed foods and sugars. The CORE program allowed raw sugar/unprocesed sugar in small doses. With CORE you were allowed 'points' for EXTRAS. I used mine for a nice glass or two of wine or pie/cake/sweets. If you saved up all your points, you could enjoy takeout or a nice dinner out every week. OH, and one big thing was cutting down on sodium, which I still do. Using Sea salt or Kosher salt in small doses, and cutting out high sodium in cooking.
I didn't do any exercise due to the neck issues and weakness I was having. If I had, I probably would have incorporated a bit more protein in the diet, so that I wasn't ravenous after a workout.
I did pretty well. I lost about 20 lbs in 2.5 months. I stopped mostly due to surgery. I've hovered around 2-5 pounds heavier since I quit dieting. I eat small bits of everything that I want, keeping portions to a more normal scale.
I don't know if I'll go back on a structured plan to lose more weight. I think adding exercise to build the lean muscle would go a long way to helping me find the shape that I want.
Be patient! That's a lot to have lost and your body needs time to adjust.
It is TOTALLY normal to plateau during any amount of weight loss.
You didn't gain weight overnight, it's not going to keep coming off overnight. The infidelity diet only carries us so far. And, remember that the mental/emotional part of what's been happening plays a HUGH part in our physical well being.
I fluxuate about 8 pounds from my low on the infidelity diet. Up and down, Up and down. I know if I'd get back to eating better and exercising, I'd get over that hurdle and back on the losing side of it. But, I'm not there right now.
I feel good that I enjoy food again! It's hard for me, in that I cook for myself and a 7 year old! I don't know how to do that very well, so I find myself taking the EASY route more often than the HEALTHY route. I'll get back there soon.
I love summer with all of the better FRESH food choices,,,because they are more fresh and they are much less expensive 'in season'.
One of the things that I had done since D-day was make take sugar almost entirely out of my diet. I seemed to almost drop weight and my food was much easier.
I don't know what seems to be shifting, but food is tasting better to me as well and I need to be careful. I enjoy being thinner and really want to lose the rest.
Your right Bugs, my body needs to adjust to this and I have to remember it's a lifetime eating plan, not a diet. So that's where looking at all options and praying on the best choice for me.
I have to admit, I sure did like the infidelity diet. I dropped almost 60 lbs.... Not really, but you get what I mean.
I find myself hungrier lately and not being satisfied like before, but part of that is I am not feeing me and the kids as well because of finances and I have to be extra careful about that.
Ah.... off to my meeting... Praying for a good topic tonight.
I'm grateful for what he gave me, but it's not enough. I am just leaving it in G-ds hands.
G-ds hands, I remember last year at this time driving around aimlessly devastated, in shock and have no idea what to do or what had been happening.
The man I trusted with every part of my being, not only had been having an affair for over a year, but he was leaving because he wanted something more than his best friend. How you all know that feeling of what is going on here, am I crazy, please make this stop and go away. How about if I just go away.
Our M had so many ups and downs, but it didn't deserve this ending, not so many years of comittment and love because above all else, I knew that we loved each other so much.
I have learned so much in this year, about myself, about affairs and about life. But what I have learned most is that no matter how alone I feel, and I really feel alone today, G-d is there with me, holding me up, pushing me forward or tugging me along.
Obviously after a year, the intial shock has worn off, I have made remarkable and wonderful changes in myself and have held together my family as best as possible. I have recovered myself as a person and yet there are days when I start thinking about that year of his affair and it literally drives me insane right now.
So I shake my head and pray for the stinkin thinkin to go away and then the drove of deep sadness takes over because of all that is destroyed and lost and there isn't a darn thing I can do to fix it or make it better.
They say that grief comes in waves and you just have to ride it. But you know, I would just like for it to take me out to sea and stop the sadness inside of me. In Judaism, my H stepped on glass when we renewed our vows under the chupah, shattering it into hundreds of pieces. The good luck to that is that may that be basically be the only thing broken in your M. Actually I really don't think that is the correct analogy, I think it has to do with may that glass be the only beyond repair in our M. Well, it wasn't, my heart has been shattered into thousands of pieces and I'm trying so hard to put them back together, but time just takes time and I'm so just there today.
I'll recover because you have all taught me I can and will someday, and maybe one day I'll even really be happy inside and truly be healed, but for today, when I can only try and dig out the memories of the betrayal of him taking her on a weekend away from home, or lying to me that he couldn't trust me and I'm not safe to him, just simply hurt and I'll ride the wave because it's sunny outside, but my heart is broken and I want the pain and sadness to just go away.
I'm not special, I am a woman of G-d, but those of you on here, know this deep pain and feel it just like me and right now my heart and soul is praying for your healing as I do mine.
there are days when I start thinking about that year of his affair and it literally drives me insane right now.
Me too, Queenie..not DAYS..but MOMENTS...
It's a MAJOR TRAUMA..I don't know if those HORRIFIC MEMORIES will ever go away...
I keep trying to BUILD zillions of POSITIVE memories to make the HORRORS fade away..
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So I shake my head and pray for the stinkin thinkin to go away and then the drove of deep sadness takes over because of all that is destroyed and lost and there isn't a darn thing I can do to fix it or make it better.
GOOD STUFF!! GREAT GROWTH!! Yes...WE are POWERLESS..
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I'm not special, I am a woman of G-d, but those of you on here, know this deep pain and feel it just like me and right now my heart and soul is praying for your healing as I do mine.
Yes you are SPECIAL, Queenie...You touch my heart when I read your words...
Try to start BUILDING NEW SPECIAL MEMORIES for YOURSELF...
Places you want to go..things you want to learn how to do...books you want to read..KWIM??
In the Books of the Kings (2 Kings 4) we read about a widow of one of the company of the prophets. There were those who worked with the prophets and actually studied to be a mouthpiece for God. One of these men had a wife and since he had died, she was in now debt and her creditor was coming to take her sons away as slaves.
The prophet (Elisha) asked her what she had in the house. She said.."There is nothing there at all..except for a little oil."
Elisha told her to go ask the neighbors for containers and not just a few and then to go inside and pour oil from her little jar into each one and when they were each filled to set it aside and move on to the next one.
The widow did as she was told and filled many jars with oil. As the last jar filled she told her son to give her another and when he said it was the last, the oil stopped flowing.
In order to act on our behalf, the first thing God asks is "What do you have?" He doesn't ask for something special or unique only for what we have. But the thing is, He expects us to give it all to Him for His use. We can't hold any of it back from Him. We are to give it all.
Then, God only begins to work and do those things we can't do after we have done what we can. He sent the woman and her sons to ask the neighbors for empty jars. The more they gathered, the greater the blessing, but they didn't know that the jars would be related to the blessing at first. It wasn't until they were all filled with enough oil to sell to pay off the debts and have enough left to live on that she and her sons knew that the jars were directly related to what God had in store for them.
But still, God only does what we cannot. He expects us to do what we can and then to let Him do the part we cannot do on our own. The trick is to know the difference.
A third lesson is that while none of her neighbors had enough money to give to this woman to pay off her debts, each of them gave only a few empty jars and yet God was able to use what they could give, empty jars, to use for His purpose to save the widow's sons from slavery.
Each of us gives what we can to help others. God can and does use that to help you and many others here on MB. He expects each of us to do what we can and He does what we cannot. And when he asks what we have, it isn't to take it away from us, but to use it to bless us if we will let Him have it to use as He wants it used.
All He is asking from you Queenie is to give over to Him what you have. You don't need anything special or expensive, but He wants you to just let Him take charge of it.
Then, He expects you to do the best you can and do what you can. But He doesn't expect you to do more than that, only what you can do. Then He will do what you cannot.
And just keep asking for help from all your neighbors. No one can give you all you need, but by taking what each of us can offer and turning it over to God to use, He will create a blessing that will not only take care of today's problems, but the future as well.
And remember that you too, Queenie, have much to give. Continue to give to others what you can give and let God do the miracle with what seems so small.
You said exactly what I would have said today. (((Queenie))))
Why does the depression take hold of us? It comes from out of the blue. Last week I hated my WH, this week I'm depressed again and the pain of the broken heart rears its ugly head again. The depth of the betrayal by someone that we trusted with our hearts and our life is just too much some days. There are days where I wonder if Plan B was a mistake. My WH looked at it as punishment and it drove him to OP I believe.
I too wish the pain would go away. I keep talking to God like you told me to do, but I just haven't gotten an answer yet. Maybe I just don't know how to interpret it or just don't recognize it. Sometimes I don't think I'll ever heal.
Anyway, my thoughts are with you Queenie, and we'll walk this together.
All He is asking from you Queenie is to give over to Him what you have. You don't need anything special or expensive, but He wants you to just let Him take charge of it.
Then, He expects you to do the best you can and do what you can. But He doesn't expect you to do more than that, only what you can do. Then He will do what you cannot.
The hard part is knowing what it is he wants. I am working so hard at giving him anything he wants. I don't know what more. But I will gladly turn it over.
Yes one day you will heal. I don't know when or how, but you will. Because as long as you are seeking G-d, he won't leave you out to dry.
He may be talking to you and you don't hear him they way you want. Try looking around you, the names on trucks, the messages at church, the magazines in the store. Listen to the words that others tell you. There are signs all around us, we just don't hear them because we want to hear them a certain way.
Keep praying, keep seeking. And tell G-d, HERE I AM....
Cinder, I'm sorry you are feeling more sad too. It's not fun. And yes, the best remedy I know is to start talking to G-d. And just make it one second at a time sometimes.
Mimi,
I'm working on the new memories, I truly am. It's just a little harder to go traveling and entertaining while broke. But I am working on that as well.
But sometimes G-d is good and gives us LV that don't make the pain go away just bless you during this time.
WH deposited another amount into my account, so now he is only one week late with another one due on Friday.
I would love to figure out why, but it's not my place, space or issue.
My place and space is to keep walking in FAITH and trust G-d with my life....
I am one grateful person and need to figure out a way to thank G-d by giving back to someone who is hurting. Do they have funds for people who have suffered in affairs or do the Harley's recommend one?
Just remember that in Psalm 23 it says, "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for..."
Why will I fear no evil?
"Because YOU are with me..."
God doesn't take us around the valley. We still have to go through it, but He will go with us...
"Your rod and your staff, they comfort me"
The word "comfort" you may recall, means "with strength" or "with power."
Not our power, but His.
God doesn't promise us that we will never be sad. He promises us that He will hold us while we cry.
You have been all over the place around here lately, helping others, showing care and concern for everyone. This, Queenie, is God working in you and through you.
Mark,I am curious...you have a real gift with scripture and getting the message across.Are you a church leader or minister?You are truely blessed with this gift.Before MB did you help others in this way?
Yeah, I've been a leader in the church for a few years now. I'm basically just an old broken down Sunday school teacher with no class to teach any more. But I don't seem to be able to stop learning or teaching.
I filled the pulpit once per month or so for about 3 years.
I taught Sunday school at our current church for 14 years.
I worked with our children's ministry for about 10.
I've led small groups, bible studies and mentored one on one.
I grew up in the church and was a deacon and Sunday school teacher when I was 18. I'm almost 56 now if that gives you any indication...
Thanks Mark for your reply.. The way you write cannot be learnt...it comes from the inner being of the soul...truely God is talking through you.Have you thought of writing a daily devotional book or something similar? Sorry for the threadjack. You remind me of a guy here in S.A, Angus Buchan.He wrote a book called "Faith like potatoes".is about his life....was made into a movie.He is a farmer you has no "training as a preacher"but is truely blessed in getting the message across.No airs and graces.He has a get together(revival) on his farm once a year for men only.This year there were 20 000 attending..
I saw your posts on the goddess thread about the scholarship ceremony and I am so happy that you could stand there shining, healthy and happy and celebrate with the kids. I am sure that they admire you and are impressed how you have changed the last year.
I understand that you enjoy being thinner and don't want to gain weight now when you have got your appetite back. I say go for veggies and fruits, cut out processed food and deserts and take as much exercise as possible. It's summer and a nice time for walking, swimming and other outdoor activities.
I am sorry to hear that you are hurting so much from the affair. I feel the same as you do, a marriage does not deserve an ending like this. It is almost unbearable that the person you trusted more than anyone else has betrayed you completely. But it is out of our control and we can only do the best we can and have faith that everything will lead to the best.
I'm basically just an old broken down Sunday school teacher with no class to teach any more. But I don't seem to be able to stop learning or teaching.
Oh no, may I correct this and offer you are a man of G-d and one of his teachers who spreads his word around in peoples lives who NEED you. How blessed for the rest of us that you can teach us and help us learn.
You know that Psalm 23 is the reason for this in my life. I was dying inside and G-d made me lie down in green pastures to RESTORE my soul. For that there is NO DOUBT. I'm sad it's been taken to the extreme, but we really don't know the ending yet. G-d is still working in me and in WH.
I'm sure I posted a long time ago, the bracelet that JT gave me which was the 23 Psalm and it was right after I read this book G-d is more than Enough. Wow, it impacted me and still does.
You're right, there is nothing that says I won't hurt, have hard times, etc. But it does say that G-d will be there every step of the way, I just have to look for him and let him know I am there.
Your are the best Mark.... Keep on teaching....
Thank you so much Why. Isn't amazing how my successes really are about us on here and G-d working in our lives. Not me alone and for me to even think that, well I just won't go there. Yes, I think many people are proud of what I have done, they don't know the struggles, but that's ok. It's not their journey to know. Just my journey to keep walking, even when the valley of darkness is so black.
I agree, the processed food is the killer. Fruits, veggies and exercise, what a brilliant concept. I learned last year, this was a lifestyle change, not a diet so I'm not beating myself up, but being careful and open to what G-d wants me to do so thatnk you.
I don't even want to go acknowledge that pain of the affair. Not today, because it spirals me down and G-d worked hard to build me up. You are completely right, WH's decision to just abandon the M without giving me one chance to make it up to him, was out of my control or choice, and I am just seeking G-d on how to survive and recover the best I can and the way G-d wants me to.
Queenie,I hope you don't mind me talking to Mark,but I am so excited now I just have to say this to him!!! Sorry,I was wrong with my figures,not 20 000 but 60 000!! Mark, Angus's GRASSROOTS series is on TBN channel,don't know if you have it...at 7.00 am on a Saturday morning here.There is about a 8 hour time difference between us..I really hope you can manage to watch it..its half an hour long..He has written a devotional book called A mustard seed and a book called Fathers and Sons.I will get his website for you where you can order stuff from him..he has made a dvd set of his gathering.I think off the top of my head its shalom ministries,not sure will check when I get home from work.
Tonights topic at my AA meeting was fear and trust.
As I sat there, I realized I am completely fearful that I will be alone. I know that I have friends, people who care about me, etc. And I really am never alone because I have G-d right with me. And he really is all that I need.
But I'm afraid, I will never have passion in my life, or someone to share a kiss with or hold their hand, or sit on the couch and snuggle or have a warm body to cuddle with at night and talk about their day. I'm afraid I will always be someone's throw away.
I know stinkin thinkin, but it's real to me right now and I am going to go write about it and just own it and then ask G-d to help me walk through it.
TRUST, all I really have is my TRUST in G-d, that ONE DAY this will pass.
It is so weird how all these affairs are breaking up and yet the one in my life is stronger than ever. Well that's a lie, I have NO CLUE what's happening over there.
Just rambling..... I want to talk to someone tonight and my kids want to watch tv.
It may seem like affairs are breaking up, but have you noticed the whole new crop of newbie's that have rolled in lately as well?????
And yes, you are in Plan B, so you don't know crap...or at least you better Not...(get it...Not said Not....lol).
Fear??? Sounds like you need to re-read the fear post....I think its by Ark?? Anyway, you are not alone...and Passion??? Are you kidding me??? Queenie, you are probably the most passionate person on here....jeez......
And heck, your WS may think you are yesterdays trash, but you know what they say about that???
"One person's trash is another person's treasure" and honey, you remind me of the painting someone bought at a garage sale and behind it there was an original copy of the Declaration on Independence....so BLAH...On your WS...
A good set of advice is to stop fretting over what may or may not be--that future thinking. You have absolutely NO idea what will happen. You'll get to where you NEED to be. Being lonely can be tough, and longing for that level of comfort that has been lost is normal. Find ways to soothe your soul when that thinking comes in.
I remember you comparing yourself to Not, wishing you could have the chance that she has. PRoblem here is, your WH is not the same man as her WH (as far as we know) and suffering thru a false recovery is very damaging. Hold tight for the real thing, and get busy taking care of yourself. YOU CAN DO THIS AND BE HAPPY.
As for having a man in your life, I understand where you are coming from. To be honest, I remind myself, when i start thinking about this, that having PWC was no dang good. I would lay in bed ALONE while he lay on the couch. Waste of time, IMO. You want a REAL MAN, not some facsimile that is blurred and distorted.
I was getting better night's sleep, but not lately. I toss and turn all the time now. I'll stay up awhile later and pray for a deep sleep.
How are you doing? How was your day?
I have to say, I was the MOST PRODUCTIVE I have been in a year. And it felt SO GOOD.
I walked in the pouring rain to my AA meeting and it was cold, but so awesome. I felt alive in a way. Last year I could barely walk, this year I am walking with confidence and singing in the rain.
SL, Your words are so comforting. I would venture to say that NO, NOT'S and my WH are NOT THE SAME.
My head hears what you are saying, my heart, well, my heart just still hurts. I take care of it and nurture it and try not to be too hard on it. All the while keeping one toe in front of the other.
I truly am able to see how far I have come. It was not something I thought was possible. It's far from over. Today I am better about giving it to G-d and leaving it there. And since today is all I have, I'll take it and enjoy the end of Boston Legal.
I got a call from WH's best friend and his message was.... Either WH is in total denial or more in command of his life than anyone deserves to be.
Needless to say it's obviously effected me because there isnt't anything I can do and I HATE IT....
Is it possible that WH is in total command of his life and I am the absolute crazy one? That it's reasonable behavior to walk out on a long term marriage, abandon children, everything remotely connected to integrity and be in total command of your life?
I'm really scared for him? WH needs prayers, please?
You guys were talking about a person who is DEAD to YOU?
Shouldn't you have said: "I don't want to hear about him or I don't want to talk about him?'"
I'm kinda biased. Turns out I realized that my H's BF was trying to hit on me. My H doesn't speak to him anymore and his wife stopped speaking to me once she learned about the affair...
Ooops.."hit on me" means "to rap" or flirt or get something going on..you know what I mean..
I can't imagine him having any agenda. We go way back, but I was always WH's gf/wife. He is happily married and completely content in his life.
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What kind of questions did you ask?
Actually I didn't ask him anything. I called him about two weeks ago to bring him up to date on what I was doing in Plan B, that I still wanted my M, and to see if WH continued to not give me money could I borrow some until my house sold.
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What kind of questions did you ask?
We didn't talk, he left this on my VM.
This friend is my only link to my H, and I guess honestly I wanted some reassurances that I'm not crazy, because I really think I'm loosing it in the reality dept. This friend is the one person that I think WH would reach out to if he ever needed help, and I wanted him to have no doubt that I love my husband and want my M.
Actually as my H were dead to me, I would call him more often and talk about the memories of my H. Because we shared so many fun times. And I don't have anyone else to help me remember those times.
This friend is my only link to my H, and I guess honestly I wanted some reassurances that I'm not crazy, because I really think I'm loosing it in the reality dept.
WHAT? Why are you saying THIS? Why would you think you are CRAZY?
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Actually as my H were dead to me, I would call him more often and talk about the memories of my H. Because we shared so many fun times. And I don't have anyone else to help me remember those times.
I was referring to your need to try not to think or talk to him during PLAN B? Remember shaking your head when you think about him?
Nothing witty or uplifting tonight. I'm way too tired for that.
I just wanted you to know that I am praying for you both and have been happy to see the great advice you are both giving to others these past few days.
I'm so sorry you have to endure a holiday weekend alone again. I remember that feeling all too well.
And I am so not willing to get into a right versus wrong battle with anyone, one because I choose not to, and another because I'm not looking to fix or prove a point. Just gather information.
Can I ask you a VERY backwards question? Partly because of my mind playing tricks with me and partly because I simply am not grasping today.
Can the WW truly come off to the rest of the world as someone who has total command of their life and is doing amazing?
Can the WW truly come off to the rest of the world as someone who has total command of their life and is doing amazing?
You may not be asking me, but my answer is, SURE, why not? PWC does a great job of it. Nobody outside of our family and close friends even knows he had affairs. I exposed to his work, so if some of the HR people are still there, they probably know, but otherwise, he's not talkin about it. Nope, I'm sure all is close to the vest for him. Why would you go about telling people you're an adulterer?
Also, the affair juices keep them flowing for quite some time, I'm sure. They are on top of the world, cloudy as it is.
Reality is not something they live in, at least not until their bubble bursts, and it comes rushing in. The kids are a mess, the house is going into foreclosure, or must be sold, the divorce is almost done, the OP is becoming a bore/nag/cheater. I'm not sure, but I would think it relatively easy to exude a sense of assuredness to the rest of the world until the above begins to happen. Even then, those who stuff their pain/anger/sadness will still show no signs of cracking, probably until they actually DO bottom out. Just from my own observations and opinions formed over time.
Can the WW truly come off to the rest of the world as someone who has total command of their life and is doing amazing?
You may not be asking me, but my answer is, SURE, why not? PWC does a great job of it. Nobody outside of our family and close friends even knows he had affairs. I exposed to his work, so if some of the HR people are still there, they probably know, but otherwise, he's not talkin about it. Nope, I'm sure all is close to the vest for him. Why would you go about telling people you're an adulterer?
Also, the affair juices keep them flowing for quite some time, I'm sure. They are on top of the world, cloudy as it is.
Reality is not something they live in, at least not until their bubble bursts, and it comes rushing in. The kids are a mess, the house is going into foreclosure, or must be sold, the divorce is almost done, the OP is becoming a bore/nag/cheater. I'm not sure, but I would think it relatively easy to exude a sense of assuredness to the rest of the world until the above begins to happen. Even then, those who stuff their pain/anger/sadness will still show no signs of cracking, probably until they actually DO bottom out. Just from my own observations and opinions formed over time.
I've simply chosen to look at it this way.
She didn't bother to tell me things were messed up enough that she wanted to leave.
I doubt she'll tell him either.
I imagine in the pecking order of things I'm going to be among the last to know if they're having issues.
I can read the tea leaves all I want.. I can speculate all I want.
Truth is.. she blindsided me when she was home and in my arms every night. It'll be a 'suprise' when things bottom out with the A too.
ETA: Perfect example of this is that she was -very- excited with family and friends for our 3rd wedding anniversary.
She didn't bother to tell me things were messed up enough that she wanted to leave.
That's the scary part for me. We were at a point in our life where we were the happiest we had ever been.
We had been to counseling, working on issues, building a new relationship. The only timing thing for me was my last son had his bar mitzvah, my daughter was getting ready to graduate college and financially we were struggling the worst we ever had.
That's why this blindsided me so bad.
Thanks SL. You have been through so much. I just have the world of admiration for your grace, understanding and caring for other people. You are a remarkable person who I know will be blessed one day, just like everyone tells me.
Well, I hooked up with BF this afternoon. Actually we had a wonderful conversation.
I told him about Plan B, that regardless of what it looked like I was fighting for my M. I told him that his message seemed cryptic to me and he explained. He said that WH lives on the surface and that for a man dealing with what is happening in his life, BF can't imagine it.
We both agreed, WH is NOT LIVING IN REALITY AT ALL. He went one step further and said CLASSIC MIDLIFE CRISIS. It doesn't change anything in reality, BUT...
He knew my H, he knew how much family and our life was to H and so he understands how crazy this is. I don't feel like I am fighting the absolute world of S and WH all alone. I don't know if that makes sense, but he validated a lot for me. And he understands that I am fighting for my M and supports it. People in my life today only know the man struggling and so there wasn't anyone to support the "real life" or whatever.
That felt nice.
My OS's oral boards were yesterday and he passed. YAHOO... Graduation is not far off. I bribed my boys, but we are all going to singing services tonight and that's neat.
Oh, I had written a wish list last year to be opened today. Relationship with G-d - got it A new home - got it Good relationship with my children - got it Lost lots of weight - got it Spirituality - got it Financially responsible - not yet Living with my H as man and wife - not yet One other relationship thing w/ husband - not yet Exercising regulary - better than before, need improvement.
What a blessed year I have had wouldn't you say. I have almost everything I asked for....
And now I get to figure out some more. It's sunny today, and our pool is open so I am planning on relaxation at the pool, praying and writing for goals that G-d wants me to work for.
Last year those were MY goals, this year G-d get HIS goals. Or at least has me work on them.
Last night I took my boys to a potluck/musical Shabbat Service at my temple. There were a few people there who didn't know what had happened and that was a little awkward, but when they asked how WH was, I just flat out told them.
Three of my close friends came in right before service, it was a nice, but the strain of our lost friendship is there for ME and it's sad. I choose to not give them what they want and they choose to not understand what I am doing or support it.
All those years ago, WH pressured me to give them all up. I did for a few years, but then I realized that even that didn't make him happy so I connected back up with them. How ironic I've lost both. One by my choice and NOT. I could certainly feel sorry for myself, but the truth is, G-d wants people in my life who will let me walk this journey HIS way and not conform me to what they THINK I should be doing. And that's the true gift from G-d.
The BLESSING OF ALL, was that my boys were with me, each sitting on one side and both of who hate to sing, were singing the prayers and songs. I couldn't stop feeling proud of both my H and me because life isn't what I hope for today, but my children have a sense of their Judaism and that was VERY IMPORTANT to us as we raised them. They are comfortable in temple and have learned about being a Jew, from the prayers, to participating in the holidays, to Tikkun Olam - repairing the world by giving back of their time through coaching. I hope that was pleasing to G-d last night.
Yes, let's talk. My friend and her daughter were in town, but they left today so I'm trying to stay busy alone. I've planted some flowers on the deck, and have been working on cleaning the condo. Trying to decide about dinner - cook or go out? Since I don't have much food in the house, I'll probably go get something and bring it back.
I'll be around, so give me a call at your convenience.
Well I did it. I sewed for a little while this afternoon. I just didn't enjoy it at all, but I did it.
I'm heading in to take a shower and then walk to my meeting a couple of miles to get this stinkin thinkin out of my head. It's about to bring me down and I'm shakin Mimi....
I didn't want to mention it, but WH withheld the money again on Friday. So, I am going to call the A on Tuesday and ask him to garnish WH. I just don't think it's fair that I have to fight each week or be involved in his games while he enjoys his life.
I'm trying to raise his children and they eat and like to go places. OS's elite lax team started up again this weekend and I don't have the gas money to send him.
Oh I know how Brown feels, I really do. I remember that time as if it were yesterday. So many of you, how I admire your strength to find a new life and not just build it, but enjoy. I'm not there today. But one day.
Chai, I'll give you a call later on. I need to get out of here, the walls are suffocating me.
Well I did it. I sewed for a little while this afternoon. I just didn't enjoy it at all, but I did it.
Queenie - thank you so so so much for finding the courage to do this. You just made my day! I have been feeling quite rubbish recently, unwanted and not being able to a difference in anyone's life. I am glad you tried, please don't give up. I'll b praying for u. Three cheers for Queenie!
Hi Mimi, I hope you are having a good day. Are you making anything special for your family?
B, I'm so glad you said that, I guess it's just act as if.... old routine.
I'm was going to get out for a walk, but my friend called and she is coming to get me to go plant some seeds in a friends garden. It will get me out of myself.
My boys are a little grouchy, so I will leave them alone and not bother them.
I got the quilt all quilted, just cut off the extra stuff. While at Wally World I am going to get me needles so I can begin sewing the binding on. I might even have it ready for my SIL to take home and save for Christmas for one nephew. Almost 1 done and 3 to go.
Brown, no cheers for me. What I'm trying to help you see, I have my AWFUL days even STILL to this day. In fact earlier this morning I was a MESS, and I wanted to post, but instead I posted to you b/c it's important to me for you to know that even though THIS TIME is AWFUL, I don't have what I WANT, well there is NO M, and some days I just don't want to live anymore, I don't GIVE UP.
I have come to TRUST G-d enough to know that it is just more time needed and one day, I don't know when it will be ok. We have our up and down days and they are still TERRIBLE. But life will go on and at some point WE ARE THE ONE who has to seek G-d and say Heinini - HERE I AM, and he will help us.
I wish it were easier than that, but it's not.
I'm here Brown, every step of the way, like so many others pulling for you and believing in you.
Thank you Q. I can only try to imagine how hard it is. I had those not wanting to live days a lot in the beginning, but i guess my religious beliefs on the afterlife scared me enough not to venture down that road much. I would think of it as you have lovely kids. That is probably my greatest regret, not having any - i miscarried one 4 yrs ago when i heard about H's first affair. With time i am sure we will all get through this but for now, we can only help each other.
Hi Mimi, I hope you are having a good day. Are you making anything special for your family?
My BOYS are grown, living their own lives. They don't live in the same city. My H and I are going out to eat at one our FAVs.
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I'm was going to get out for a walk, but my friend called and she is coming to get me to go plant some seeds in a friends garden. It will get me out of myself.
That's so NEAT!! You know how I LOVE PLANTING and GARDENS!!
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My boys are a little grouchy, so I will leave them alone and not bother them.
I SOOOO remember those days....Mine are just now beginning to act like normal human beings, coming out of adolescence.
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I got the quilt all quilted, just cut off the extra stuff. While at Wally World I am going to get me needles so I can begin sewing the binding on. I might even have it ready for my SIL to take home and save for Christmas for one nephew. Almost 1 done and 3 to go.
Honey, we are BOTH living this hard time. I don't get a corner on the market. I wish I could take yours and so many others pain away. I can't, but I can be here with you as you walk through it.
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I would think of it as you have lovely kids.
My kids are the reason I get up each day, without them. I wouldn't have made it, wouldn't have wanted to. But I can tell you that there was a long time when I thought that if I would do something to myself, it would snap WH out of it and he would come home, the old one and be there dad. I held this belief that the boys needed their dad more than they needed me. That was a lie. Because as hurt and destroyed as I was, I was fighting for my M, my family and survival of my life. The children needed to see that so they have examples in their life how to walk through tragedy.
Yes, I believe that we will come through this, a lot of lessons learned along the way, and still there are HARD and HORRIBLE times to get through, but one day it will be over and we will have become people who G-d always envisioned and our lifes will be used for the good to help other people.
I hope you had a spectacular day with your H and enjoyed your dinner out.
I was personally out for the entire day and it was nice. I felt a little guilty being away from my boys, but they were occupied for most of the day, so it was ok....
Your hand feels safe and warm. Thank you for the journey.
I talked with the A today. I was correct in imagining why WH is witholding the money. I don't know whether to be glad or whatever. Anyways, he was counting on the money from the sale of the house, got behind on his bills and used his paycheck to pay off the bills knowing that the money was coming in. He didn't learn about the sale of the house falling through until it was too late and he already used up the money and was going to pay me back. Problem is another two weeks went by and he didn't give me money again. I mentioned to my A that I didn't think it was MY PROBLEM to tell WH that the sale hadn't gone through. It's his life and he has to be responsible in it. A agreed.
So, A is going to call him and shake him up. He already has mentioned to him that he will garnish his wages. He isn't opposed to doing that, and I explained that I felt like I was being reasonable in all this, but that it didn't seem fair that I was suffering the consequences of his choices and that I didn't want to have to worry about money every two weeks. My A agreed. I reiterated how WH has not ONCE taken the children, I have done all that I have done to walk through this year and that this on top of everything was too much for me. His kids still needed to eat. Blah... Blah....
I also explained to the A that I loved my husband and wanted him to come home and build a new M and that it was my WH who wouldn't even give me a chance.
One thing that the A said was the WH doesn't seem like a man in charge of his life, in fact that he is in complete reaction rather than action. He said that he really didn't think that WH even knew where to go to the bathroom next.
So, A is going to call him, demand payment or take him to court to garnish his wages. It's weird... I'm very calm.
You know I want to ask, what could be happening? But I'm trying not to.
I'm actually on vacation, but since it's raining and cold outside, I decided to stop in and catch up on things here.
You are handling things amaziningly well. Your strength is an inspiration to many that might never post a word to you. Keep up the good work and go do something for yourself when you get the chance.
Hang in there, Queenie. You will one day be able to look back on this day and see how far you have come. And then, you will be able to smile knowing that you fought a good fight and remained faithful to your own values and to God in spite of all that has gone on.
Let the lawyers handle the legal stuff and you take care of yourself and the boys.
Where's vacation? Must be the PNW with rain and all. I sure hope you are having a good time.
Thank you Mark, it really means a lot to me what you are saying. I am working so hard to make G-d proud and have FAITH in me.
Any strength I have comes from G-d who worked through you and so many others and I don't take that for granted one bit. Without a doubt this journey has been a rollercoaster that I don't want to ride anymore, but I keep seeking G-d and telling him Heinini, here I am G-d.
And for this control freak, sometimes fighting is just being still. UGH.. But a good lesson nonetheless.
So, WH deposited 32.00 out of 1400.00. How's that working for all of you? What's more unbelievable is I just refuse to get into the drama. My spirits are good today, because G-d is being gracious on my soul today.
I am so incrediably glad to hear this. Now, whenever you get down about yourself, re-read this post of yours. Look and see how much you have changed and how well you are handling things.
I absolutely LOVED your post on finding the goals you had set for yourself last year. What a neat idea. I bet it was even more fun to see how much you HAVE grown. Girl, I haven't known you that long, but I am so proud of you...... .
Your A's quote on WS beign reaction instead of action....that is so true. Something everyone could learn from. If anything, between your A and WS BF, it sounds like he is having trouble dealing with the life he has built for himself. So you know what that means?/??
Keep up with your changes and making yourself and your home a safe place for WS to return to. You are doing great so far.....the inner GODDESS in you is shining (in fact, if I look out my window, I think I can see you from here..... ;)).
Anyway, sorry I haven't been around or in touch these last few days, just trying to keep on that "narrow" path of recovery......
No, I don't know what that means. He is doing whatever he is doing. I have no clue.
He told the A he would deposit money and it was 32.00. So I called the A today and asked him when I can be done with this. It's been over a month now, three paychecks and I'm tired of his games. A told me he feels that WH is sincere, but now I have to wonder, which I am not willing to go to. So, I asked him to go after him legally if this doesn't get resolved. I'm so done. I think I have been reasonable enough, but it's not my problem that he spent money he didn't have. It's not my problem he is having bill trouble. His kids still want to eat, I still need to take them to the dr.
BUT I WON'T BREAK PLAN B.....
Hey Not, I really miss you, but I'm glad that things are going good for you and you are keeping on the narrow path of recovery.
So, I asked him to go after him legally if this doesn't get resolved. I'm so done. I think I have been reasonable enough, but it's not my problem that he spent money he didn't have. It's not my problem he is having bill trouble. His kids still want to eat, I still need to take them to the dr.
BUT I WON'T BREAK PLAN B.....
GOOD FOR YOU, QUEENIE!! I love your STRENGTH, now!!
So, I asked him to go after him legally if this doesn't get resolved. I'm so done. I think I have been reasonable enough, but it's not my problem that he spent money he didn't have. It's not my problem he is having bill trouble. His kids still want to eat, I still need to take them to the dr.
BUT I WON'T BREAK PLAN B.....
You go, girl!
I am so proud of you, Queenie. You truly are a beautiful woman, a woman of strength, confidence, and character.
You may not be able to admit that yet. But it is the truth.
I just have been afraid to let my anger out for fear it will override all my hard work.
But geez, this is ridiculous. A woman can be pushed so far before it's just WRONG, and this MONEY stuff is just not cool. He CHOSE. He LEFT. HE ABANDONED. I have been gracious, taking more than my fair share of the blame, made changes that I wanted to make, secretly hoping it would make a difference and he would come home.
I have had to learn I am NOT GARBAGE and worthy of a life that isn't GUTTER. And all the while I have raised HIS CHILDREN all by myself.
I truly love my H, but enough really is enough. 32.00 won't even fill up the gas to get the boys two and from the drs, school, etc.
And him saying he is taking care of it.. That's what he always says and didn't. That's what frustrated me so in our M....
So, yes, I'm mad and trying to be reasonable and fight for my children.
I set him free to live his life of happiness with the woman he loves. But I am here raising those children we MADE TOGETHER. And he is going to help pay for it.
Try to capture this and remember who you are dealing with TODAY; not who you WISH you were dealing with, or who WH SHOULD be. He is who he is.
$32! I can't fill up the tank in my car with that these days. It's financially tough going for me WITH the payments. I only have the one kid, too. Whew.
I think you are flexing your womanly muscles - it's very attractive and I like seeing it
I concur.
Anger is natural and good and can guide you in the right direction. Venting and letting it go is healthy. Taking action is good. Nobody is mad at you. NO way.
$32! I can't fill up the tank in my car with that these days. It's financially tough going for me WITH the payments. I only have the one kid, too. Whew.
And MINE our 18 1/2 and 15. They EAT ALOT.. They need BIG SHOES... What a slap in my face. I might take mental abuse, but not physical. At least I feel that one once it hits.
Thanks Mimi and Pep,
I'm flexing my SPIRIT, the one G-d gave me when I came into this world and twisted it to make everyone ELSE happy and let it almost die. I don't know if I would say attractive, but it's full of life and hope for a bright new future.
I love my H, I so want him to come home and build a new marriage; however, he is making HIS choices and I am ACTING on them, not reacting. I WILL NOT LET HIM HURT MY BABIES or take ANYTHING from them..... Not so HE CAN BE HAPPY.
[quote=QueeniesNewLife I have had to learn I am NOT GARBAGE and worthy of a life that isn't GUTTER. And all the while I have raised HIS CHILDREN all by myself.
I'm sorry for ranting.... [/quote]
(((((QUEENIE))))))
OH HONEY.....(and yes I called YOU HONEY.... ;))....that's what we've been telling you all along....
And honey RANT AND RAVE all you want.....your confidence and strength are showing....and honey, its BEAUTIFUL.....
Your are on a totally different path than last week. GOOD. I am so happy for you.
Hang in there, and yes, remember YOU DID NOT CHOOSE this....WS put you in this position WITHOUT asking if you wanted it.....
There are a lot of forces and thoughts coming at me right now and I need some help sorting stuff out. I am choosing to do it on here because I trust you as well as you understand, if that's even possible, the WW mind.
I think that in lieu of my emotions today I need to proceed with caution and look at things HONESTLY. I wish Mulan was here, I really need her wisdom, because my insurance agent was talking to me. WH evidently had crack ho visit the office and she was driving his car. IA called WH on this and WH lied and said she wasn't. IA told WH he saw her and wants her drivers license. Turns out she is driving on a suspended license b/c she has 4 outstanding tickets. What a gem....
I finally broke, and screamed and cried over it all. He told me that I have been starved for love for at least 8 years, but probably 10 years. My husband always withheld his emotion and shut down on me. I am passion, full of life and I allowed it to be driven out of me. So to survive, I volunteered and withdrew myself because I just wanted to love him and make him happy.
IF my H was like Mulan's, would the advice you have been given me over these months have changed and if so, how? If my H was a cold calculating person who just didn't know any different and controlled me because he could and when things really broke were when I got healthy and put a stop to it. He also went on to say that each one of my kids treats with me such disrespect.
So, I certainly don't believe this is the man I married, but he is certainly the monster now. If the reason he is with OW is because she is stupid and he can control her, does that stop the odds of the A breaking up?
I want to process through this cleanly and healthy and make a decision if I am completely done.
He told me that I have been starved for love for at least 8 years, but probably 10 years.
This is coming from your IA? He is NO COUNSELOR and he had no right to ask her for her license. Unfortunately, but TRUE, your H can allow anyone to drive his car that he chooses. The INSURANCE is on the car. It's up to the police to find out about her license, etc. Just letting you know about the IA. He has his OWN AGENDA. I warned you about this, Queenie.
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IF my H was like Mulan's, would the advice you have been given me over these months have changed and if so, how? If my H was a cold calculating person who just didn't know any different and controlled me because he could and when things really broke were when I got healthy and put a stop to it. He also went on to say that each one of my kids treats with me such disrespect.
THIS MAN HAD NO RIGHT TO TALK TO YOU THIS WAY! He is an IA.
That's what I mean, I am surrounded by people who love me dearly, and hate to see the pain I am in. They don't buy the MB principle of addiction and isn't it interesting how empowered I was feeling.... Satan is good, I'll give him that.
Ok, back to being angry. I'm calling the A tomorrow, and making sure he understands I want to move forward on garnishing his wages.
Last night before bed, I started reading WH's Narcotics Anonymous book. It was dated 3-10-87. He had last taken 5.25 grams of coc by himself and that was when he went out and cheated on me the first time. His behaviors today are so addictive, but again the scary part is, he is in such denial that anything is wrong that he is a nuclear bomb dropping wherever he wants to touch. I am learning not to be underneath him at all.
Today was an interesting day for me in many ways. My boss was on my case on something that I just have to shake my head. More and more I realize how unrealistic her expectations are. My lesson is how to survive without letting my emotions get in the way. For those who know me, what a hard task before me.
I called the A today, no WH didn't call A back and I again reiterated to A that I want to move forward and get him in court and this matter resolved. I was pretty good about keeping my emotions out and remembering I am fighting a cause.
As I was running my OS up to his friends house, I stopped off at McD's to buy him food. Here we were having a great time, when I pulled out and right in front of us 25 feet away was WH pulling out of his stall. Pure supposition, but his bank is close by, as is mine, and he followed up behind me, not to close. My OS said, keep driving, and of course I lost my train of thought as I was telling him a story. WH pulled into the gas station and I gotta tell you, it still sometimes amazes me that we are even going through this. BUT, I'm not in shock anymore and as much as I want to pray and make it go away I can't. No, I checked he didn't give me any money.
I did pretty good for the most part, struggled with concentrating on the story, got OS to his destination, cried just a bit on the way home, protected myself from falling into that black hole, came home, peered on here for awhile and prayed.... I just prayed and asked G-d to help me. And he did.
I went to an AA meeting and tonights meeting was the family afterward in the big book. It brought so much up for me, but I kept quiet because the thoughts are so unclear and just in my head.
My spirits for the most part are good. I came home, grabbed YS and we went for a workout, then we went and picked up OS from friend's house.
Brown, if you are reading this, my heart is heavy, but not black. I am healing. I really really am. I feel the strength inside building because I am with G-d and he is taking care of me.
Where does this journey end I have no clue, but I can tell you, almost 3 months ago when I would run into WH I would want to kill myself. Tonight, I prayed and KNEW that this PAIN will pass. It did and it wasn't as bad. Small victory, maybe.. But a victory for G-d nonetheless. And a victory for those on here who kept telling me that one day it would be better.
Brown, if you are reading this, my heart is heavy, but not black. I am healing. I really really am. I feel the strength inside building because I am with G-d and he is taking care of me.
Where does this journey end I have no clue, but I can tell you, almost 3 months ago when I would run into WH I would want to kill myself. Tonight, I prayed and KNEW that this PAIN will pass. It did and it wasn't as bad. Small victory, maybe.. But a victory for G-d nonetheless. And a victory for those on here who kept telling me that one day it would be better.
Hi Q, I hope you slept well. Honey, your heart can never be black, it is pure. I keep on telling myself that next time i see WS with OW, I am going to just stay calm and smile. We cannot let them win, and even though I am struggling to find my faith in God, we cannot stop walking down the path of honesty.
Oh Q, sometimes when I read your posts, I just want to reach through the screen and give you a big ole hug. You are a wonderful, classy and beautiful woman. Your WH has no clue that he traded a diamond for a lump of coal.
sometimes when I read your posts, I just want to reach through the screen and give you a big ole hug. You are a wonderful, classy and beautiful woman. Your WH has no clue that he traded a diamond for a lump of coal.
I WAS NOT always like this. There is a prayer in Judaism that is encouraged to say every morning that says, The soul you have given me is a pure one. My rabbi seeing the level of distress inside me many years ago, wanted me to start saying this prayer. I couldn't because I was black inside. Yes I loved deeply and passionately, but I was living a life of craziness through my dry drunk and doing this that I am terribly ashamed of and should be ashamed of.
I just read as I was looking for the hebrew words of the prayer, which btw, are beautiful - The second belief system held by many Jews about G-d's dependability is that G-d is NOT limited but is all-powerful. If G-d chooses to not intervene in a situation, or if G-d does intervene and that intervention causes suffering on one level of reality, it is because of unknown factors and unseen level of reality we human beings cannot fully understand. This is why my WH is not home today. There were and continue to be lessons for me to experience, to seek G-d through and learn to walk through with him. I hope the outcome is for my H to come home, but I am ONE DAY AT A TIME, walking in FAITH that I will be ok no matter what happens. Do you know the story of Esther where G-d was preparing her for something bigger, and it took a VERY LONG time. I believe that's what is happening to me.
PM, hey woman, I haven't seen you here in a long time. How's the home sitch going? You doing ok? Is there anything you need?
Mimi and PM, thank you so much for you sweet love. Truly. Sadly, you are right. WH has NO CLUE and in fact is operating as if he has totally come out the winner and I am the complete LOSER. We don't know what is going on inside of him, but I know that he NEEDS her for life right now. It is so helpful to be reading Narcotics Anonymous, it really spells out the addictive mind and lets me associate more to what is happening in this sitch.
I remember in the beginning when WH used this crap, he wants something more than to be married to his best friend. And we truly were. We had been through so much for SO LONG. BUT, give me a frickin break. A crack addict with hepatitis C, who got that from heroin, twice divorced, three children, the first one at 15, and now someone who is driving around on a suspended license. I'm not judging her. My heart aches for HIM, because he is so sick and all my love can do for him is watch on the sidelines and let G-d do his miracle. All I want to do, is march over to him, and reason with him the way that we used to be able to. But, that isn't happening.....
Not much to add to what PM and Mimi have said. Just know that I'm thinking about you.
I was watching the movie "Under the Tuscan Sun" last night. I love that movie. Anyway, there is a part where Diane Lane's character, Francis, talks about wanting a wedding there and wanting a family, wishing for it, for herself. In the end, she hosted a wedding there, for one of her friends, and she had a family there, when her pregnant girlfriend came to live with Francis, ultimately having her child and remaining there.
She got her wishes. A wedding and a family.
I believe God works to give us what we need; it's just not always in the package we THOUGHT it would be in.
I believe God works to give us what we need; it's just not always in the package we THOUGHT it would be in.
I have to agree with you on this. This more than anything has been one of my hardest lessons, because of course I always believed I knew what was best for me or what I needed.
The truth is, I have NO CLUE what it is I need. I just have to TRUST....
TRUST, definetly easier said than done. But when your back is to the wall, and you are fighting a WAR, there isn't any other way to protect yourself than to TRUST G-d and see how HE is going to get me out of this scrap.
My best thinking and sick behaviors got me here. I NEED to just get out of the way and let G-d direct me. He'll get me to my milk and honey.
How r u? I missed u y'day evening. I am in a slightly better mood today. Y'day was a crap day, had my counselling and that made me very miserable (more details on my thread) Plus dad's BP has gone up again, so his heart is in trouble again, i wasn't a happy bunny. But today is another day. I am trying to b positive
Hey Brown, I was actually around lurking most of the day yesterday. It was an up and down one and I didn't want to bother people on here. This really is just my stinkin thinkin, but I worry that if I don't keep it positive after all this time, then people are going to throw up their hands. I know that won't happen, because for me, I am here for you no matter how long you need me. I just don't give myself the same loving treatment. I'm working on it.
I had a horrible day at work. My boss was just reaming me all day long over stuff and I am needing to talk to G-d about how to work with her. I wear my emotions on my sleeve and it's so obvious when I am frustrated or pissed at her. I have a set of beliefs, but my boundary is my biggest problem. She is the boss, she wants to be asked about EVERYTHING and will get pissed if I don't. It's extremely hard for me to operate like that, but she is the boss and I like my job. Beside principals come and go, maybe she will one day.
But, what I did find out though was she is hurt and mad that the staff would rather not have the end of the year party at her house and so it was suggested because of gas prices to have somewhere closer to town. It wasn't anyones attention to hurt her, but she has blinders on to the negative feeling that pervades in our building and most people won't go. So, I realized that she was hurt and I am the closest and obvious choice for her to take her anger and frustration out on. Doesn't make it any better, and even though she is picking on things I am doing, she is just mad at the world and not necessarily me.
I stayed late and work and finished up certificates and program for the end of the year lacrosse banquet. I hit a sad and feeling sorry for myself snag last night when I realized that WH didn't deposit any money. It really wasn't the week, but just in case I was holding out hope, and there can still be. I'm frustrated because I don't think the lawyer understands that 1400.00 is a lot of money for me and it will go to pay off a lot of bills.
After crying a little, spewing I can't do this, I just kept myself busy and got out of it very quickly and went along my business.
I am supposed to bring a dessert and appetizers. I was going to make Paula Dean's Not Yo Mama's Banana Pudding recipe, but I bought cool whip instead of cream cheese and condensed milk. So, the old me would go get what I needed. I could justify myself by walking down there and getting exercise, but the reality is, I have to watch my pennies and I don't need the attention of making a great dessert. So, I have lots of premade cakes, one of which is sugar free and make that as well as cookies if I like. As for appetizers, I can keep it truly simply and use the celery I have and put peanut butter on it. That way I don't spend money.
I am convinced that I am in a process of learning to TRUST G-d for all my NEEDS. He wants his relationship with me and truly I am coming to a place, although moments fighting it, but coming to a place where I am waiting to see what G-d has planned for me.
At first, I wanted my M, then I was in a place where I had to know whether it was going to end or not so I knew what to do, and now, I don't need a man to fill me up or make me whole, that is between me and G-d today. I love my husband deeply and B swears that these types of relationships can't take the test of time. I have much to learn about myself as well and completely heal from the damage that not only what this situation has done to me, but truly what was done to me in the past from WH, H and myself quite honestly.
This isn't what I want, but it's more than likely what I NEED. And since G-d has my will and my life in his hands.... He gets to lead me.
I'm going to catch up on your thread in a few. Sorry to take so long.... It's stil hard not having an adult around me to talk to.
Hey Q It was lovely to get a long post from you. I know about that stinkin feeling. I am getting that already. I keep on thinking that i sound so negative and so in the ' i can't help myself' mood that people r just going to just give up! But u know wat Q, that 'fear' (?) in itself helps us to get out this spiral. Don't let the boss worry u, my clients tend to drive me round the bend sometimes too. But u know what i learnt, i can't b unhappy bcos they r unhappy, n if i smile enuf i can make them smile too. (see i wasn't always a miserable monkey ;-) The money - that is tough, I do thank the lord that he has giving me a loving family that helps me financially. But even I have to think long term. Need to get a place of my own but right now I will concentrate on recovering myself. I will pray for you. And u r welcome to post long messages any time.
It was funny, last night when I went to bed and was talking to G-d I was asking him for help on how to work with her. I realized it was the first time in a long time that I wasn't asking him to help me with WH. In fact, most of the day was spent without thoughts of him.
It was funny, last night when I went to bed and was talking to G-d I was asking him for help on how to work with her. I realized it was the first time in a long time that I wasn't asking him to help me with WH. In fact, most of the day was spent without thoughts of him.
That was NICE.
Good, bcos he should b crying n feeling bad about not having u in his life, not the other way round.
Good, bcos he should b crying n feeling bad about not having u in his life, not the other way round.
It took me a LONG time to not go to the place of what he was thinking. I still have to be very CONSCIOUS and not do it, b/c I simply don't know what he is thinking. I actually don't know this WH at all. I don't share his moral, spiritual or life values at all. I think I am being honest with myself that if this WH came back and wanted to make my M work, I am not sure I would do it anymore. He is too sick, dangerous and selfish for any M, let alone mine that I need to have blessed by G-d.
What I KNOW is this WH is NOT MY HUSBAND. Not EVEN CLOSE. This monster is out for himself, out for his NEEDS ONLY and his actions don't SHOW that he care about OUR CHILDREN or ME. He is withholding money from me raising his children and other than not contacting me at all or trying to, his actions don't show he is thinking of me at all or gives a hoot whether I am alive or dead. I suspect he wouldn't want me dead, then he would have to be responsible and take care of his child. But even that is thinking my H still lives inside him.
But in the end.... G-d knows what is going on his side of the street and is working hard to bring him home if that's his plan. Which I don't even know anymore. I just am in G-d's will as much as possible and staying out of the hurt, drama and absolutely digusting behavior of the alien WH.
I was just thinking this morning, if this was the person I had met all those years ago, there is NO WAY I would have liked him, much less done drugs with him.
I think the key question here is that , 'Would you have been the same better person that you are now, if he had not left?' The greatest thing i see Q is the journey that you are walking is full of faith n goodness and that is in itself God's miracle
n if i smile enuf i can make them smile too. (see i wasn't always a miserable monkey ;-)
This is where I got the first quality....
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'Would you have been the same better person that you are now, if he had not left?
Well I can try to lie to myself and say yes, but the answer is NO. This is why he is gone. G-d was DONE watching us kill each other spiritually. Do you know the 23 Psalm. Read it. I lived it and understood why.
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The greatest thing i see Q is the journey that you are walking is full of faith n goodness and that is in itself God's miracle
I have worked very hard to become a woman of G-d and have Him be proud of me. I walk in FAITH because G-d had FAITH in me I would turn to him for help and not become bitter and keep doing what I was doing, which was dying inside.
I love with all my heart, not necessarily healthy, but with all my heart and soul. My soul needed to be cleaned up a great deal and has. Now, my soul is a pure one that can face G-d and serve with in love.
Pretty awesome if you ask me. The price was terribly high, still hurts deeply, but I come to terms more and more it is what it is. And the journey isn't over.
I hope and pray there is a man for me to love and be in a relationship with. I love sex way too much and love to cuddle, etc. It's just not time for me yet, there is much to still work on inside.
[quote] n if i smile enuf i can make them smile too. (see i wasn't always a miserable monkey ;-)
This is where I got the first quality.... [quote]
Oops me n my big mouth - i do get carried away in blowing my own trumpet sometimes - that is one quality i don't like about myself.
[quote]I love with all my heart, not necessarily healthy, but with all my heart and soul. My soul needed to be cleaned up a great deal and has. Now, my soul is a pure one that can face G-d and serve with in love.
Pretty awesome if you ask me. The price was terribly high, still hurts deeply, but I come to terms more and more it is what it is. And the journey isn't over.
I hope and pray there is a man for me to love and be in a relationship with. I love sex way too much and love to cuddle, etc. It's just not time for me yet, there is much to still work [quote]
Q - something special will happen... I am sure of that
...if you are struggling sometimes... it's all NORMAL as many NEEDS are going UNMET!
...keep taking it ONE DAY at a time.... FOCUS your thoughts on answering the question: what can I DO...TODAY!.... to make life better for MYSELF and those I care about and am responsible for....as objectively as you possibly can...and put your ENERGY...on DOING IT...
...need a break? ...helpful to talk to a friend? ...a nice bath? ...a walk? .... a movie? whatever is in YOUR power to do....YOU ARE IN CHARGE ... and every little bit helps!
...the more you learn to run your life this way... the better you will get at doing it... the better IT WILL GET, overall!
Queenie... I know what I am suggesting is not easy to do because I am trying to do it myself....
Please be kind and patient with yourself as profound changes cannot happen overnight.... it's literally RETRAINING our thoughts ...learning to NOT IGNORE our feelings which try to tell us a LOT about our NEEDS... as we try to create a balance between our GIVER and TAKER so that neither takes us over!
...bottom line, Queenie... whatever EFFORT it takes... you are WORTH IT ALL!
Please be kind and patient with yourself as profound changes cannot happen overnight.... it's literally RETRAINING our thoughts ...learning to NOT IGNORE our feelings which try to tell us a LOT about our NEEDS... as we try to create a balance between our GIVER and TAKER so that neither takes us over!
Learning to be intune to my feelings was the FARTHEST thing I EVER wanted to do. Probably because such hatred and low self-esteem existed inside me.
This is really hard for me to acknowledge as being important, forget about doing it, but I am trying. I am really just giving it to G-d and letting him lead me.
All I can do today.
I'm glad you are home safe and sound Luna, I am heading over to your thread to read about in. I brimmed it earlier.
Hi Cinder, thank you very much for your sweet words as well.
Hi Queenie. Just wanted to stop by and say hi. Hang in there. Seems you and I are in the same place, and we're struggling with it somewhat. Sometimes I think that I should be healing faster, but I guess everyone at their own pace. I see some who never seem to get over it an move on, and I know that I don't want to be one of them. I just don't know how we speed it up....
WE don't get to do anything like that. This is in G-ds time. I truly understand that need for this to be over. I know that PAIN... But G-d is planning something for us. I HAVE to BELIEVE this or I will simply GIVE UP and walk away from life.
I'm staying as strong as I can, as long as I let G-d take me to the next indicated place. It's all I can do today.
Have FAITH.... That's all WE HAVE..... It may not be MUCH, but it's all I HAVE..
I'm P$SSED...... Did I say P$SSSED.... Let me say it again, rather I am DISGUSTED.
For YEARS, WH wanted me to give up my girl friends because he felt that they were a negative influence on me. In fact, I did give them up for a few years, but that did't make my H happy, so eventually they migrated back into my life.
I just got off the phone with one of them, who was calling me to see if I would be willing to make this poster. I was a little off guard, and said I might. She is pretty matter of fact and has really done me a huge favor by taking over the chair position as I was doing that position once upon a time. Anyways, I mentioned to her that WH wasn't giving me any money and she said she knew that.
Did one of my GOOD friends call me to find out how I am doing. NO Does any of my GOOD friends support my decision to stand for my M, NO. I can't believe how I let these "close friends" be a sore spot in my M. I could just scream at myself.....
I'm so embarassed and hurt and ashamed. G-d I hope I get another chance to make up all my mistakes to my H.
You know, I found it very healing to start praying for my x. It helped me. I know, it sounds corny. But, you can find something for which to pray....to help you not be so angry about him, for him to treat your more respectfully, for your children to one day have a better relationship with him.....something....surely there is one thing for which you can pray a blessing for him. If nothing else, pray for a cessation of your anger.
That doesn't mean you will get the answer you want tomorrow.
But, I found it opened my heart to healing itself. I could not talk to G-d and curse the man.
Angry at my H, nope. I'm frustrated, sad and sometimes angry at the things this WH monster does. But it's so painfully obvious that my H is a sick human being.
I'm angry at ME for not seeing through my friends and putting them first. I'm angry at my friends for not supporting me as I stand for my M.
I can honestly say that I ask G-d as often as possible to give my H and OW what they need almost every day. I honestly pray for G-d to bring him down so that the WH reaches for G-d.
Some people say it would be best if I got angry and stayed angry. That was who I was. Who I am today, yes gets good and mad a the situation, but my H is an addict who is out there using as if he were smoking crack right along with her. What I am learning to do, is get tough and protect my family from this monster, not be angry at him.
I hope that makes sense. And people don't think I am stupid.
Hi Queenie, I don't think your stupid. I thought about you alot while I was away and I pray for you alot. I admire your courage and hope that your marriage will be restored. Your thread alone has taught me alot about the WS and affairs. Don't beat yourself up too much about not seeing thru your friends, we are all falible, the aim now is to correct our mistakes and be better people yes/no?
What have you learned about WS and affairs. It makes me feel good that I can be helping someone else. Thank you for saying that.
I'm honored you also thought about me. I pray for you when I am in bed having a hard time sleeping and all my thoughts are focused on people on here. I can't tonight, as I am exhausted, but I hope to catch up on you tomorrow.
Yes, the aim now is to correct our mistakes and become the people that G-d always envisioned for us. It's G-ds time to shine in my life and lead me to the land of milk and honey. I just have to keep letting go and give him my hand.
Please keep the prayers coming, I know they are helping because I really am started to get stronger inside. It's not just fake it until I make it.
You are one of a handful of people who get prayed for. I also make a 'general' help everyone on MB who really needs You God, prayer on a fairly regular basis.
Your a strong couragous woman, I admire that. thank you for sharing your challenges with us.
You are definately NOT stupid! So, just stop that Stinkin Thinkin right now!
I admire your decision and actions in praying for WS and OW. It Biblical that we do that. I continue to try every day to pray for Drac and the HO. Not an easy thing, is it?
I try to think of it, as you do. I imagine it as a disease and they need prayers for healing. Anger has it's place in our lives. It can be healthy to a degree,,for our own protection at times. However, living angry all of the time is destructive to ourselves.
You are definately NOT stupid! So, just stop that Stinkin Thinkin right now!
I admire your decision and actions in praying for WS and OW. It Biblical that we do that. I continue to try every day to pray for Drac and the HO. Not an easy thing, is it?
I try to think of it, as you do. I imagine it as a disease and they need prayers for healing. Anger has it's place in our lives. It can be healthy to a degree,,for our own protection at times. However, living angry all of the time is destructive to ourselves.
How very wise of you to see that!
Hoping you have a beautiful day!
I back this post (emphasis mine.. not that you needed it).
We see it all the time on MB, where the BS comes here broken, devistated, hurting.. so deep in the pit of all of this that they can't even begin to imagine a way out.
Then something happens. Many find God, others no doubt have many here who have, praying desperately for them, others simply find the support they need to get through it in the other wonderful people who post here. Slowly, and it takes LOADS of time, people pick themselves up off the ground, dust themselves off, and find a measure of strength, courage, and character that they never even suspected that they had.
You, Queenie are a shining example of this.
Look at how much stronger you are today as a person than you were even in the days before you knew your M was in trouble. Look at how much more firmly rooted in your faith and values you are today. Look at the STRONG, Godly women and men you surround yourself with and who post to you on these boards. It's no coincidence that these boards.. a place for the weary and broken to come and find help.. are filled up with people like Mimi, Bugsmom, Foxy, Rin, Mrs. W, Lala, LilSis, Mark, Not2, JL, GC, Chrisner, SDGuy... just to name a few.. have you ever met in your life so many wonderful, stong, with-it, and compassionate people in the same place in your life? I know I haven't.
I also know that I'm truly blessed to be a part of this community. I could do without the circumstances that brought me here, however I'm beginning to look at this pain as a way for me to learn lessons about myself and my strength, values, and character that will stay with me for the rest of my life.
We've all come so far here, and have so much to be thankful for. Live in victory Queenie, because whether the WS comes home or not, you're making a transformation of your life into one that shines like a beacon of faith, love, and strength to those around you. Even the ones who care about us enough to beg and plead with us to 'get on' with our lives and kick WS to the curb so that we don't have to hurt anymore. We are blessed by them as well, as they come around every so often to remind us and help us find the measure of our resolve to be obedient to the purpose for which we have been called.
Q - I am praying for you right now, n I am praying for everyone else n their WS, praying that the WS finds their way back to the right path - back home to their loved ones.
Thank you so much, Jamesus, Cinder, Brown for your prayers, strength and support. It means more to me than I can express, but the depth of my appreciation is G-d given and not taken lightly.
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however I'm beginning to look at this pain as a way for me to learn lessons about myself and my strength, values, and character that will stay with me for the rest of my life.
Ok, this could be a LEAP, but a short version of Psalm 23 perhaps?
From the moment D-day happened, I could not LIE to myself and ask WHY. I knew why. I was DYING INSIDE. G-d was tired of watching my DIE slowly. There is too much love, passion, life, and adventure inside to see me day after day wither into a sick, dangerous human being. And that's what I had become.
At my AA meeting tonight, the topic was unusual. It was the 6th step. Were entirely ready to have G-d remove all my character defects. Today is one successful day for G-d and removing my character defects. The A brought the paperwork for me to sign at work. Remember, my three main character defects are manipulating, controling and being a martyr. So here I am, almost 4 paychecks from when WH started playing with the money. Remember the movie Fiddler on the Roof where Tevya is saying on the other hand this and then on the other hand that. Well my manipulating and martying has been doing that.
I have certainly had to learn to give up CONTROL of WH and let G-d have this situation. I walk in FAITH that my M will be restored. I have to be honest, I don't know if I can be as strong as CCBIS and not every marry again. I love with all my heart and soul and I believe for just me, that it's something special I want to share with another man, hopefully it's my H. But that's in G-ds plan, not mine.
Anyways, the A told me that I needed W-2, paystub, 2 years of taxes and 6 months of bank statements. In case I haven't been honest enough of what a disorganized person I am, TRUST ME... The thought of having to get these found before he can file the paperwork, DARN near put me into panic. I didn't know where any of that stuff was.
But, I am NOT the same person I was a year ago. I am a woman of G-d and I gave it to him. I asked G-d how to work through this, I became willing to turn my will and my life over to G-d. I came home, sat on the floor on my closet and pretty much found everything but one month of bank statements.
I have made a few corrections to the legal papers and to be honest, my A is going after way more than I thought. Will I get it, I have no clue. Do I want it, you bet. I'm fighting to save my M and it would really help me to pay down some bills. My A has asked that WH pay all my legal expenses. That surprised me, but then again. This is about choices. He chose to leave the house, he chose to abandon his family. I am choosing to protect my children and make sure that we are taken care of, not to mention salvaging us financially for when the day comes when he wants to come home.
Will I get it, G-d knows, not me. I just TRUST that he will provide with what I need.
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you're making a transformation of your life into one that shines like a beacon of faith, love, and strength to those around you
Yes, I am because of this forum and the many people who believed in me to keep talking to me and not giving up on me.
My YS, who has almost dug himself out of his grade hole, made a book that he dedicated to me. He used a picture of me and said that this is my mom, she is the reason I am the person I am today. Now some of the people in my world would say he is disrespectful and a brat. I would disagree, especially when last night, I am taking a shower and drop something, he comes running into make sure I'm ok. I was behind the curtain.
What is transforming in my life is G-d's glory and you on here. I say it over and over again, because it's the TRUTH. You saved my life. Yes, I did the work, yes I didn't give up, but you didn't leave me and for that I owe G-d my obedience to walking through this with dignity, grace and willing to go to any lengths to heal.
The journey isn't nearly over. The outcome is still undecided and I continue to pray and hope for the day my M will be restored and you can all meet my H. Because he really is a good person when he isn't addicted to something....
I miss you around on here. How you take care of yourself helps me to think new ways. How's little Bugs doing.
Is praying for them easy? I don't know how to answer that. I find it easy on the one hand because they truly are so sick and I love my H. But then you're right, those hurts and destruction that has invaded our lives runs deep and it takes a lot of effort on my part not to go to those places where I become bitter and want them to hurt.
I have often said, I hope WH gets to feel this pain. But each day more and more I am able to see him as someone in the late stages of alzheimers. He has no clue who he used to be, has no idea of what he has become and doesn't recognize me as the one who will always love him as his wife and is willing to stand by him no matter what. And today I can say that's not because I am desparate, but because I simply love him and made a commitment to G-d for better or worse.
We have no control over what they are doing, it still hurts like the dickens, and yet in the end, they will have to face G-d over this, not us. I have faced my G-d and begged for forgiveness. I continue to learn to live a life that G-d is designing for me.
{{{{{{{{Hugs for my Bugs}}}}}}}}} Take care of yourself.... Be well m'lady....
From the moment D-day happened, I could not LIE to myself and ask WHY. I knew why. I was DYING INSIDE. G-d was tired of watching my DIE slowly. There is too much love, passion, life, and adventure inside to see me day after day wither into a sick, dangerous human being. And that's what I had become.
Queenie--
I have to tell you this is true for me as well--I just did not realize it until I saw these words. Today you helped me come one step closer to peace.
Did I ever tell you how truly remarkable you are? I am blessed to have met you...
You give me inspiration when the chip seem to be down. I look at you and how far you have come and somedays wonder why I can't seem to get there with you. Other days I feel beyond it.
Oh, its a rollercoaster like one I've never been on before. Don't EVER want to be on this one again. Ever.
My H's uncle just died. And they need to get ahold of him. Should I call the intermediary and have him call WH to call his aunt or how should I handle it. Remember, he is supposed to be served tomorrow with the papers....
They don't have his number. And really I don't have it either. At least I would have to look it up on reverse directory or check the old cell phone log
Well, you have three choices....call him after looking up the number. Call the family after looking up the number. Or, tell them you don't know how to contact him. OR, could you have your attorney's office tell him he needs to call his family?
I would tell them that I don't know how to reach him. He has to suffer the consequences of his actions...his choice not to tell anyone how to reach him.
Why should you go through any extra effort?
He won't even pay you the money that you NEED to feed and clothe your children.
It's done, the intermediary has received the email and will forward it onto WH.
It's in G-ds hands as to when and what WH does with the information. His aunt is torn apart. She loved her husband so much, they were married 58 years. I can just hear the pain and sadness in her heart. It broke my heart.
She knows the whole sordid mess with what he nephew is doing and she is just disgusted by him. I believed at one time she was the only one who can reach him. Who knows anymore. I just want to be able to comfort her in this time and make sure I am a support system for her. She has always been so good to me and I love her dearly.
I truly understand this sadness inside her. I never did before, but I do today. I let her cry and talk all she wanted. I know there isn't anything I can say to lesson the pain, but I can darn well be there and let her know how much she is loved.
I am sorry to hear of the loss of a loved one in WS's family. They sound like lovely people. My condolences to you all.
I just had to pop in about this,
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He used a picture of me and said that this is my mom, she is the reason I am the person I am today.
How that must have made your heart sing, the buttons burst off your clothes with pride, and your eyes fill with tears. No matter what WS does, he can't take that way from you. Your CHILREN are proud of you. They admire you. I admire you, as do so many people!
My heart was a choir over what he had done. I am so amazed by my children. I love them deeply and I'm fighting for them and their dad as hard as I can, but staying out of his life. Do you know how hard that is....
It's ripping me apart inside. Miss control freak, who can't do anything but let HIM GO... and let G-D have HIM.
I heard the devastation in my aunt's voice. I was wrong, they had been married for almost 69 years. She is hollow inside. Oh g-d I remember that feeling. I know there isn't really anything I can do but be there for her, but to hear her pain breaks my heart.
I hate when people hurt. I wish I could just make it all go away, but I also have walked enough on this journey to know that these are the times when G-d needs us the most to reach to him. I have told G-d all night, how much I love him and to thank him for giving me the strength to not break Plan B and contact WW.
WH's uncle was a football coach who was so admired by his peers and town that they named the school stadium after him. He was such a g-dly, giving man and will be missed by so many people.
Anyways, the A told me that I needed W-2, paystub, 2 years of taxes and 6 months of bank statements.
Hey Queenie!! I'm sitting here in a hotel in SC waiting to go see my younger son who is graduating from basic training. My older son came with and brought his laptop. Yea!
Anyways, I was catching up on your thread. What kind of legal papers is your attorney serving on him? Is it a motion for temporary support or something? Asking for attorney's fees is a standard for most motions. "I wouldn't have to bring this motion your honor if this person had done what he was supposed to, therefore, I should be awarded attorney's fees."
As far as him being served on the same day he receives news about his uncle? His choices bring his consequences. I can't help wonder about God's timing in all this either. Yanno?
Well, I'm beginning to think I have a bum atty. It's almost like I have to tell him what to do. He never even brought up the possibility of having my WH pay the atty fees. I just don't think he is going to fight for me. Sounds like yours is fighting for you though.
The papers are parenting plan, motion and declaration for temporary order, state child support schedule with spousal support, financial declaration, motion/declaration for ex parte restraining order and for order to show cause.
He should be getting the papers served today, and his uncle died yesterday. And his son is graduating next week and he isn't invited. I can only hope that this is G-d working his miracle in our life. It hurts to watch this go one and not try and fix it or soften it for him.
Chai, I think the only reason A is asking for the fees to be paid is because WH is the one who stopped paying and broke the informal agreement. If he had just communicated to the A, this wouldn't have happened.
He's been served and evidently put the person on a wild goose chase to get him. Sneaky guy.
I feel like a pile of crap for doing this. How can I gloat or be happy when I'm sick to my stomach that I had to push him like this and lose him further...
Q - U r on a path which believes in the truth and doing the right thing, so u shouldn't feel bad. U r only doing what is right. He is lost, so u can't lose someone who is already lost. U can only pray that he finds his way. We r all with u
It's my last night for class for spring quarter but I stopped by to see how you are doing.
You didn't push him and you didn't lose him further. He is choosing this. You are simply protecting your sons and your self financially and legally. That's what a mama bear does when her cubs are threatened. She protects them.
Do not feel bad. He has a legal obligation (and a moral obligation but we won't go there) to you and his children. Do not let him get by with not honoring that. Remember, any money that does not go to you and your children goes to the POS-CH-Ho. She deserves none of it.
Queenie, your WH is a grown man, he made the CHOICE to leave you for a druggie, to leave his kids, and to lose all he once held dear. YOU are not punishing him, HE is reaping the consequences of his actions.
You are a wonderful person who is just taking care of house and home.
You didn't chase him away, he left to be with the Crack-Ho.
Your choice was for him to stay and do what was right. It was his choice to leave and follow after his own selfish desires.
Taking care of his family is what is right and it is also rightfully yours (you and the boys). If your WH gets mad because you are making it hard for him to abandon his family, then that is not your fault either. It is his. There is a very simple way for him to not have to pay for two households, pay child support, pay his previous obligations and still try to find the money to keep the C-H. All he needs to do is come home. He gets his family back. He gets his life back. He gets to spend his money on his family again instead of the pretend family he is trying to justify and still having to keep his real family safe, housed and cared for.
He could attend games, family picnics, holidays, birthday parties...He can have the whole enchilada once more. But he has to make that choice.
The fact that he has not means he is still trying to get out of his obligations to his family.
You aren't being hard on him, you are asking for what is yours...
That's right, Queenie. One of the premises of behavior modification is the reality of natural and logical consequences. There are logical consequences for having children....supporting them. There are natural consequences for leaving your family.
The legal system has enacted these logical consequences for just these types of situations.
You aren't doing this to him. You are setting in motion the logical consequences for his choices.
Thank you so much you guys for everything and helping me be ok with this. You are right, he is choosing this and I am just setting in motion to take care of HIS CHILDREN and HIS WIFE. Even if he WON'T.
My intermediary passed the message along last night. He received it and responded with a thank you. Then this morning WH wanted intermediary to pass a message along if I filed the taxes. Ok, is it me? Is he out of his mind. LOL....
This is June and he is just getting around to asking if the taxes were filed. Hmmm.. I don't constitute that as an emergency do you? Maybe he should have read the sticki note on my Plan B letter that told him if he wanted me to do his taxes, he needed to get me his W2 by March 28th. How could I have done the taxes without his W2? Oh that's right, he hasn't done taxes in almost 26 years.
And NO I didn't file an extension for him. Just ME..... Would this his not getting a EN met by me or a LB by not taking care of him?
So, since I am in Plan B, and I don't consider this an emergency, I don't respond to this, right?
I just keep on praying for him and hope it's in G-ds will to bring him home. Because stupid me, I LOVE this man so much.
Hate that he is acting this way, but I had to chuckle that he thought you would still take care of his taxes for him. I consider IRS hot water an emergency. Just tell your intermediary the answer to his question is no.
It isn't love-busting. It is sticking to your plan B guns and refusing to act like his wife until he decides to start acting like your husband.
I was thinking about this a little further and it dawned on me that WH and I had at least 2, probably 3 discussions on me doing taxes, and that in order for me to do them, I would need his W2.
I was clear on the sticki note and reminded him to get me his W2 by March 28th.
I agree, I think this is his way of getting me drawn into his drama and I refuse to do it.
My PBL clearly states to NOT communicate to me unless it met two conditions, emergency and he has left OW. His sudden realization about taxes is HIS deal, not MY emergency.
So, I am not going to respond. If WH needs further information, he can ask it through my lawyer and I will gladly tell my A, not the intermediary. Semantics, maybe, but I think there is a difference.
I am really walking a shaky road for my recovery. I want to fix this and I CAN'T and yet, I have worked so HARD to learn to take care of myself and get out of the sick drama.
I see your hangging in there just fine... I like the way your standing up for yourself. Remember a while ago, we kept telling you how strong you were, and you didn't believe us.... well believe us now becasue you're strength is showing through.
It might be a good time for a top 5 list update.....
You know Lil, It's just feelings, I have learned they come and go and I go get on my knees, cry my heart out and ask G-d for help.
I'll survive, I always do.
I'm so HAPPY for all of you who are starting to work towards recovery. I keep saying that G-d has plans for me to prosper, but I feel like I am still the BIG LOSER and lost the best thing I EVER had....
but I feel like I am still the BIG LOSER and lost the best thing I EVER had....
One really fricking big 2x4 at you Queenie, you are not and never have been a loser. You are an amzing woman whose strength has helped me so much. You were one of the first to ever talk to me and i think your thread was the first i read. you said to me then your sitch was one of the hardest and that helped me keep mine in focus. Even in the 3 months i have been here I have seen you get stronger and your faith in God get more intimate, and that was another thing that kept my own from dwindling. you are an INSPIRATION. I dont know how old you are or if you read the new testment much but this one reminds me of you when i read it. Titus 2:3-5
One really fricking big 2x4 at you Queenie, you are not and never have been a loser.
Good for you Lil... give it right back to me. You're right, I am just feeling stupidly sorry for myself.
I'm drained, my emotions are wacky and I'm tired. I had this fairy tale of a good family in my head, my son's graduating and my H won't be there. My SIL in flying in tomorrow, and I am just plain tired.
I'm 47 and no I don't read the new testament, I keep to the old one. But I do go looking when someone gives me something to read, so I will.
I do know it's been frickin raining all week and this weather just gets me down after a while. I'm sick of it being 50, grey and wet.
I am so happy for all of you who are starting to get your hopes realized and I am just plain being selfish and feeling sorry for myself.
I'll get over it. I'll fight my way back to strength with G-d.
I'm glad you hit.... At least I know I am still feeling.
I do know it's been frickin raining all week and this weather just gets me down after a while. I'm sick of it being 50, grey and wet.
I am so sorry Queenie, I know the bad weather gets to you. Slim chance of WH or giving you enuff money to go somewhere sunny for a while I bet. How far away is the nice spring weather from coming where you live? Is your SIL coming to visit with you and is she good company?
Slim chance of WH or giving you enuff money to go somewhere sunny for a while I bet.
LOL, NOT....
Besides if he gave me money for that I would use it on my kids first. Summer will be here in about 6 to 7 weeks and I have almost a month off. My apartment complex has a pool and so I plan to spend most of my time laying out. I had to chuckle. Our spring is rainy and gray here. That sucks after awhile.
Since my H's uncle died this week, I probably might take a two week trip to CA and visit my SIL and her family and then mosey on down to Bakersfield and see my aunt. It would be the world to her.
Yes, SIL comes tomorrow and I am very excited to have her here. She and I have gotten WAY closer since WH walked out on us. She is older than WH and is disgusted by what he is doing. She doesn't like the fact that she has NO contact with him or can't even get a hold of him. We actually were just talking about that.
I thought I was passed the first, this is another one. Her coming up and us not being an entire family with H not with us. Oh well, I need to pray and ask G-d to really just let me enjoy what I have and not be so jealous of others. Eh Mimi?
I am really happy that if you keep working Plan A, hubby could be home.
It's just a hard day today. Too many emotions inside of me to feel right now.
{{{{{Queenie}}}}} you are so sweet. Well, my journey is far from over, I won't believe hubby may be on his way home until he comes home. He has let me down far too many times. All i can do is pray n work my damn hardest to b a better person. So no need to be a jellybaby yet;-)
I am working hard at work, n going to try to study. My exams are next month n i haven't done a thing, so not long to go. If i pass i get my promotion which means more money (which i definitely need considering all the retail therapy i've had ;-)
Any time I feel the green eyed monster popping up n then feeling sorry for urself, I try to read into what these people did to make H come back, n if they didn't succeed how they made their lives better (though i know thinking about the latter is difficult. That helps me.
Look at you Brown, giving me advice. That's so awesome. Be so proud of yourself.
You know what, because of YOU. I just finished the binding on the quilt for my grandnephew. One Christmas present done. Thank you for allowing me to be part of your life.
Well this GODDESS got up and is still cleaning for FINAL touches, but all in all, it look nice. A welcome place for my SIL to come to.
My S wants me to call her in a few minutes. She is one sick puppy. And it hurts that whenever she talks to me I remind her of our childhood growing up and that pain she endured.
I think one of the ways for me to go back to basics would be to write a gratitude list. I KNOW how grateful I am in my HEAD, but that's a SICK place to be.
Dang, Cinder - I would LOVE to have some NICE weather. The weather man calls for rain all the way through next weekend. Dragola......
Queenie, I found counting those blessings to be very helpful.
Despite my sporadic bouts with anger, I have come to realize that the tension with which I had been living was really taking a toll on me. To live at peace is a good thing.
Had you ever thought about MOVING since the WEATHER there bothers you so much? You aren't in control of the weather but you can control where YOU live.
It is beautiful today. BTW, the other day, I made some gorgeous cloud photos. I carry a point and shoot digital camera in my purse. It looked like the clouds were radiating from a central point and there was a small hole at that spot....the sun was behind the hole. It was very artistically done.
H and I talked about retiring to Montana when we got the children raised. I still hope that is possible. BUT
Until then, YES. Once I get my YS graduated I will seriously consider moving, to east coast, Israel anywhere and starting over. If I go to rabbinic school I will choose Cinncinati. I don't want to live in NY or LA.
The truth is, I LOVE where I LIVE. I am a part of the community and LOVE it. In a few years when my heart isn't so sad and I am still affected by the weather, I will seriously consider my options. But for me right now, that would be running away and I can't do that.
Did you know that there were a lot of suicides in this part of the country? It really is sad how gray the weather can affect our moods, and throw in a little infidelity and nuclear bomb to ones life, well, not the sunshinest times.
I know one thing that helps me when I am funked out is to wear clothes in the brightest, happiest colors I can find. And some happy cheerful music on the stereo. LOUDLY!!!!
Cinder, why thank you for sharing that with me. I feel SO MUCH better. LOL
Here is mine, though I can't do the link deal. How did you do that?
49 °F Overcast Wind : From the Southwest at 10 MPH Humidity : 83 % Pressure : 30.16" (1021.8 mb)
Puget Sound Weather Outlook Updated Saturday 7:40 a.m. Mostly cloudy skies today with showers at times. Highs will stay in the upper 50s to low 60s. The afternoon will bring a few sunbreaks, but the showers will still be lingering around western Washington.
Sunday will give us a few more sunbreaks, but we keep the chance of a stray shower around. Highs will top out in the low 60s again.
Monday another soggy system moves into our area. Plan on a gray and rainy commute in both the morning and afternoon.
Tuesday we return to a pattern of sunbreaks and showers with cool temps. That's what we will hold on to for most of the rest of the workweek. Our next chance for some sunny dry weather comes next weekend.
HEY, where are you wanting to move to? Why don't you like where you live?
Aside from the weather, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE, this place. It's beautiful, close to Seattle, but in the rural areas. I can walk around town and do things without a car.
I know so many people. I am a part of the community. I feel safe here. It's just the darn weather.
I think that it would be a little nicer is WH hadn't moved so close to me. I have had to alter my life not to run into him. But that's just an inconvenience.
HEY, where are you wanting to move to? Why don't you like where you live?
I want to live near THE WATER...
I felt betrayed by my community when I needed them...I'm tired of seeing the people whom I thought cared about me and were my friends..HERE'S YOUR WHINE...
I'm more INTROVERTED anyways...
So, I'm gonna get a NEW DREAM HOUSE...
You already know the PLACE if you've been reading the GODDESS THREAD...
I'm tired of seeing the people whom I thought cared about me and were my friends..HERE'S YOUR WHINE...
Oh GOOD, you'll be moving close to me because I CARE and am your FRIEND...
Actually I really understand this. My closest friends are the one who just walked away when I wasn't what THEY wanted me to be or do. Fortunately my temple is far away and my FRIENDS where I LIVE has been nothing short of amazing and understanding. Going back to AA gave me a whole NEW group of people who didn't know WH and that is nice. They are protective of me and my hurts. They are also watching me walk through this.
Did I ever tell you what my drug of choice was? Pot....
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You already know the PLACE if you've been reading the GODDESS THREAD...
Do you know what a side effect of Pot is? Memory Loss.... LOL
I'm still EXPLORING..to make sure..but I LOVE the FEELING I get when I go there...I can't explain it..
You can SMELL and FEEL the water..I love the way the people TALK..I love the FLOWERS..THE GARDENS...THE ARCHITECTURE..
My MOOD could be uplifted every day by the VISUALS...
Dream house..NEAR but not necessarily on the water..with a screened in porch for reading and breakfasting outside...ALL the EXTRAS that WE particularly like..hard wood floors, nice kitchen,library, areas for flower gardening...but nothing BIG or OSTENTACIOUS..
Look at you Brown, giving me advice. That's so awesome. Be so proud of yourself.
You know what, because of YOU. I just finished the binding on the quilt for my grandnephew. One Christmas present done. Thank you for allowing me to be part of your life.
{{{{{{{{{{Brown}}}}}}}
What kind of studying?
Me giving advice is funny no? Well, actually at work i am the resident agony aunt, counsellor n now i need all the help i can get. Isn't it funny how life turns out?
I am so glad u finished the work on the quilt.
Honey, i am happy to have you in my life.
I am studying accountancy, the same as CPA (I think that is what it is called in the States)
Today WH called me out for lunch as OW was out. It felt awkward bcos i could tell it was WH who had come n not H. More on my thread.
I had a great day with my SIL. She looks so much like my H and is so different. It's hard not having him home right now, I miss OUR family being together. I keep trying to convince myself he is the one missing out.
But I am the one who knows it and feels it.
I am so grateful she is here. We went to a two graduation parties, and a friend of my son's came up and asked me if I would be interested in having our son's parties together. I was shocked and accepted the offer, but we aren't sure the dates will work for her. Mine has a lacrosse tournament one weekend, so we shall see.
We came home and watched the movie mad money. I sat on the couch, in my apt, rehashing so much in my head and just thinking how surreal this is. My husband's sister is here and he has NO clue and is off in a new life.
My heart is praying to G-d so hard to please not keep him away forever. I have to dig deeper and find the strength to keep loving him and NOT give up on him. But stay out of the way.
Queenie, I know these things because I was where you are. Wanted my marriage so much. Was so hurt I was hemorrhaging - way beyond being a bloody mess emotionally - way beyond!!!! Did my best. Worked hard with my counselor/therapist. Did everything I could. Had so much anger. So much fear. I had lost so much of myself to trying to be this man's wife that I had no clue what to do.
I yelled at G-d more than once. Yelled at him so loudly and for so long that my throat would be sore for a couple of days. I had no idea why He would let this allegedly G-d-loving man do this to me.
I knew G-d was out there and that He loved me. Despite that, though, I was so angry and depressed that I came to understand why people without that hope could kill their children and kill themselves. I wanted out of the mess so much that I wanted to 'go to bed and wake up dead'. Harming my children or my self was NEVER anything I considered doing because I did have my G-d hope and strength.
I found a passage from The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck. Maybe it will help you. It's the first few paragraphs of the book. You might want to go see if your local library has it. So, here goes:
Life is Difficult.
This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult – once we truly understand and accept it – then life is no longer difficult. Because one it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.
Most do not fully see this truth that lifrfis difficult. Instead they moan more or less incessantly, noisily of subtly, about the enormity of their problems, their burdens, and their difficulties as if live were generally easy, as if live should be easy. They voice their belief, noisy or subtly, that their difficulties represent a unique kind of affliction that should not be and that has somehow been especially visited upon them, or else upon their families, their tribe, their class, their nation, their race or even their species, and not upon others. I know about this moaning because I have done my share.
I know you do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is the I AM in flesh. After all, this great teacher was Jewish, so I'm going to give you something one from of his great lessons, found in Chapter 5 of the book written by Matthew:
Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, and he began to teach them, saying:
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see G-d.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of G-d.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Note to Queenie - notice the progression above. You sort of have to move through these. Poor in spirit > mourning > meekness > hunger > merciful > pure in heart > peacemaker. It's a progression...indicates growth.)
You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."
(Note to Queenie - You must work to heal your heart. Your h is in no place to do that. He is a pain-causer now. You must work with G-d - grow through those phases. You, by living well, kindly, a whole woman secure in her love of self and love of family and love of G-d, will be G-d's bride. He will NEVER leave you. You will be His light when you move toward that wholeness of life and heart. Heaven help us, I sound like a philosopher.
And I am very grateful you are sharing your philosophy with me.
I had read what you wrote yesterday before I went to the photographers. You haven't shared your pain with me like that before and I realized how far you have come since this happened. But not just that, I realized that I am not so special, and that I keep trying to make me something different with the yeah butts, or whatever.
I believe I have let go over the WH. I really don't like this person, and as sad and hurting as that is, I wouldn't want to be with him at all.
BUT, take care of myself, learn about myself. I FIGHT it so badly and I simply don't know why. Except there is some deep seated hatred for me just to exist and I don't know where that came from, but somehow I know that G-d needs me to change this.
This is MY BATTLE. Stop hating myself. And this is a BATTLE that is LONGER than my M. I don't see what other people see in me. But I have to LEARN to.
I don't know how to learn to be good to myself really, not in the way that is long lasting or spiritual or believes that I deserve more than a cheating H who thinks of me but nothing more than used up garbage. I do the outside stuff, exercise, eat better, pedicures and manicures. I go to AA meetings that fill me up. I have the most amazing support system on here and in life. But yet, I can't look at myself and the mirror and see what you all see.
How do I do it? First, without a doubt, I just ask G-d to help me. And leave it at that, because that's all I can do.
Queenie, I don't talk about those dark days too often. I am proud that I made it through. I know that I didn't do it alone. I had Ultimate Power on my side. I turned a lot of stuff over to Him.
Most people would think I was a freak for admitting I understood how people with no hope could kill their children then kill themselves. Because I understood doesn't mean I ever wanted to do it. The thought of ceasing to exist appealed to me. The thought of doing anything to my beautiful babies was accursed. Nope! No way!! That would be giving the man I had married and who had betrayed me WAY too much power. I was bound and determined to make it.
Maybe you are struggling with the fantasy of your marriage. With the 'princess marries prince charming' feeling you had going down the aisle to take your vows.
But, do you really want the marriage you have had over the last couple of years?
I reached the point where I didn't want the man who left. Did not want him. Nope. No way. However, had he gotten a mirror so he could look at himself. Had he acknowledged that he was not perfect, that he had a flaw, had he gone to counseling and really done the work. Maybe.....Maybe he could have come home.
It was a sign to me when we were talking a few weeks before he left and he asked how much of my time with the counselor I spent talking about me and my issues. I answered that I spent about 80% of the time dealing with me and 20% dealing with the marriage and coping with him and his issues. He said that he, too, spent 80% of his counseling time talking about me. Like he could do much work on himself that way. So, I could hope and pray but he wasn't gonna work on himself.
Queenie, the only person you can work on is you. Your desires. Do you want to be who you were? Do you want the man who left you?
Pray for him to find peace and to treat you respectfully. Pray that you will find peace and strength.
All you can do is pray for him. You don't want him back till he's in better spiritual shape. Think of who he is as a spiritually ill man.
There's a hymn we sometimes sing at church that I used to cry through....well, I used to cry through church A LOT! I am really good at that. So, you can hear the tune and read the lyrics here.....http://cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/i/f/gifountw.htm
Most people would think I was a freak for admitting I understood how people with no hope could kill their children then kill themselves.
NOT ME
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But, do you really want the marriage you have had over the last couple of years?
If you mean from the day he met her, NO. But before that, YES. That's what makes this so confusing to me. We were our HAPPIEST we HAD ever been. We were working together as a team for the first time in our marriage. Celebrating our last Bar Mitzvah. Our kids were getting older. That's why this caught me so off guard.
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Do you want to be who you were?
As much as I miss my H with every ounce of my soul, NO, I could NEVER go back to who she was and to have him home or be her just isn't a choice for me anymore.
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Do you want the man who left you?
NO, that man who LEFT disgusts me and is DANGEROUS to the NEW ME.
I truly do think of him as someone spiritually sick. I have for a long time. Ever since that day in the copy room and G-d spoke to me. And he told me to stay out of the way, and I am. But I'm such a sensitive person who loves with all my heart. And I just miss my H. Whether that my H still exists, I don't know. But I hurt for my sick H who is missing out on all the wonderful memories. I accept it's his choice, I accept their are consequences for him to his actions, but I LOVE my H and I hurt for that person. NOT this monster.
Does that make sense?
OK... here it is June and our wind storm was so bad tonight we lost power three times. We couldn't eat dinner at home and so we went to a mexican restaurant. I am having an absolute blast with my SIL. We are really talking for the first time ever.
Queenie, I SO understand what you are talking about. That's why I share some of this stuff. You need to know that you are not the only one. You need to know that you WILL survive. You need to know that you can have the good life even if it is not as you imagined it.
But, the big question is........................did you print out that affirmation (in a colorful way) and put it where you can see it often.
I WANT YOU TO SEE THAT OFTEN. I WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT TO THE CORE OF YOUR VERY BEING.
My dear friend, I see you struggling as I have in recent months. The emotions stirred when you ponder what might have been.. what could be..
I know it seems like more fun in the moment to think about those things rather than what IS.. but you must come to a point where you accept what IS, rather than mourn what could have been.
While what IS can suck sometimes, and hurt in ways we never imagined, it sure beats the dawning of realization after a night of denial... and what's more, you'll find a great release in being honest with yourself.
I'm not saying to stop standing by any stretch of the imagination. You know I'm one of your biggest backers in this, and I do understand because I've been doing it myself right in step with you in a number of ways.
I'm just saying, accept what IS right now, and let God get you through it.
Here's the lyrics to a song from one of my favorite bands that I taught myself to play on guitar this weekend.. It's helped me, maybe it'll help you:
Blind Melon - "Change"
I don't feel the sun comin out today Stayin in, gonna find another way As I sit here in this misery I don't think I'll ever know Lord, Or see the sun from here
Oh as I fade away They'll all look at me and say Hey look at him How can he live that way That's ok They're just afraid of change
When you feel life ain't worth livin You've got to take a look around And lift your head to the sky When your deepest thoughts are broken Keep on dreamin boy Cause when you stop dreamin it's time to die
As we all cast thoughts on tomorrow In some ways we'll work In other ways we'll play But I know we can't all stay here forever That's why I'll write my words on the face of today
And then I'll paint em
Oh as I fade away They'll all look at me and say Hey look at him Where he is these days Well life is hard You have to change Life is hard you have to change.
Hi Q Chin up lady. I think something really special is going to happen to you because you are truly a lovely person. You care n you are honest n that is what matters in the end.
I WANT YOU TO SEE THAT OFTEN. I WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT TO THE CORE OF YOUR VERY BEING.
I'm working on it Cinders. THIS is REALLY hard for me to do.
You know, I think I am able to leave the past alone. As hard as that was. I am even able to give myself a break for the mistakes. You got me on the what could be. And that's where I get caught up.
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I'm just saying, accept what IS right now, and let God get you through it.
You mean like live ONE DAY AT A TIME... Because really that's all I have..
So today, the day my middle son graduates from high school is a bittersweet day. But I PROMISE... the pain and sadness I feel for my H missing this momentous day will not AFFECT anyone else.
Queenie, print that out.....I mean it. Whaddaya wanna do, woman. You gonna make me print it out and come over there and stick it all around your house? Is that what you are trying to do. Make it your screen saver.
Think of it as your mazzuzah from Cinderella. I don't know how to spell that....you know what I mean. That thingy by the door....the one w/ scriptures in it.
Yeah.....that sentence is the first verse of the Second Book of Queenie.....Like First Samuel.....You know whatImean?
So, how was graduation?? I KNOW how proud you must be of your middle son! Tell me how handsome he looked in his cap and gown.
Then, as I know & totally understand the longing thoughts you must have had yesterday in regards to you WH, I want you to think about something and tell me about it.
What I want you to think about is this - - as you look back to Dday, would you have ever been able to imagine yourself as you are today? Did you think you would be physically, let alone, mentally & emotionally able to help your son through his Senior year?
Could you have imagined the strength, love, wisdom that you have today? Could you have imagined the wonderful example you have become to your children? Could you have imagined the strength, class, love, faith, and perserverence you have demonstrated to your children, your family, your friends? Did you realize how admired you would be by people around the world,,,,,some who post to you to encourage you? Some that post asking YOU for help, which you so generously give!!
So, in many ways, think of this as also a 'graduation' of sorts for yourself! You've graduated from helplessness to a place of power with the Lord at your side. And that's a fabulous place to be.
Yes, the 'what ifs' can take you on some crazy rides - - But they can also take you to some wonderful, unimagined places as well.
"Trust in the Lord, with all thine heart, and lean NOT unto thine own understanding. In all ways acknowledge HIM, and He shall direct thy paths.' Prov 3 5:6 - - THIS is the verse that gets ME through the 'what if' days of my life.
I almost posted this in the Pondering Scripture thread, but decided to put it here.
I know you are struggling with Plan B because you miss your husband, but Plan B is really the way God would handle this sort of thing.
When God created the man and woman and placed them in the garden, He could have made them so that they would automatically love Him and follow Him all of their days. But love is so much more valuable when someone chooses to love us that He decided instead to give us free will to choose for ourselves to love Him or not.
When Adam and Eve chose to love themselves before God and decided to follow their own selfish desires rather than His command, the relationship between God and Man was broken, just as surely as if a husband had cheated on his wife. The results and consequences of that decision are still with us today.
But at times throughout history, individuals have chosen to love God above themselves and God has attempted to reconcile all mankind through these folks.
Abram became Abraham because He loved God. And Abraham became the foundation of a relationship that resulted in Israel being saved from captivity and bondage and living in the land promised to Abraham. When God led the people from Egypt, it was He Himself that led them. He didn’t just send them into the wilderness, but He actually went with them. He camped among them by night and preceded them by day. His presence was visible and any who cared to look could see that God was right there guiding them.
God gave them the Law and told them that if they followed Him and His ways, they would be His people and He would be their God. But once settled in the Promised Land, daily life, a lack of need on their part and their own selfishness once more caused them to choose to follow after other gods, even they themselves becoming gods in their own minds.
So God set Plan A into action. He sent them great leaders, like David, who though not one to constantly do things God’s way, still loved God and repented of his sins and came back humbly before God each time to ask forgiveness. As a result, David, though he sinned greatly was called by God “a man after mine own heart.”
God turned up the heat in Plan A, though the people still chased after their other gods. He sent them the prophets. These prophets attempted to win the hearts of the people back from their chosen wickedness. They also suffered the consequences of continuing to follow false gods and soon the kingdom was divided. The northern kingdom was destroyed and still the people refused to stop their adulterous affair with other gods.
Some times things seemed to get better and there would be revival of sorts. Worship would begin again in the temple and people would turn from their wickedness. But soon, they showed their true colors as “cake eaters” and once more lapsed into their affair with selfishness and false gods.
So God began Plan B.
He sent a powerful army to capture the people and take them away to a foreign land. The temple was destroyed, the capital city was destroyed and the royal family was made slaves. For 70 years the temple lay barren and desolate. And then God brought them home. Just like the prophet Hosea bought back his wife though she had given birth to children of other men, God redeemed His people once more from slavery. The temple was restored and the land once again thrived.
But again, the people rebelled and eventually God went back to Plan B. Throughout the centuries, the people suffered because of their sin and were despised and in great danger because they wanted things their own way. They were murdered in Spain, executed by the Cossacks, and nearly destroyed by the Nazis.
And yet, when they were ready to return to Him, God began to bring them back to the land He had promised their fathers and in May 1948, a Jewish nation became a reality for the first time in nearly 2000 years.
You love your husband, Queenie, but God loves him even more. And to God, your husband’s relationship with Him is even more important than his relationship with you. God does not enjoy His time in Plan B. He does not like the false recoveries and the continued adultery by His people, His bride. But He also knows that at times, He must relinquish us to our own selfish desires for us to come to a place where we reach our own end and realize that we need Him.
You are important to God, Queenie. He loves you more than you love your husband. And He loves your husband more than you do. He wants you to be happy, but He also wants you and your husband both to love Him. He is willing to let our sin run its course and for us to reach a place of utter brokenness in order to achieve that goal. He is now asking you to do the same and let your husband go until he is broken to the point of repentance and is ready to cry out to God for forgiveness. Then, God can lead him back to you, but He will not force the issue nor make him do what is right. Because God still wants us to love Him of our own free will and He wants your husband to love you in the same manner.
And even if your husband never turns from his wickedness, even if he never returns to the wife of his youth, God will still keep trying to reconcile with him till the day he dies and while He waits, He will be caring for you, just as He cared for the Daniel, Nehemiah and Ezra while they were in captivity.
And God is patient beyond what we could ever imagine. Moses knew he was called to save God’s people. He struck down an Egyptian for abusing one of His people and it cost him everything including a position of power in the royal palace. It took him 40 more years of wandering in the wilderness to reach the point where he was ready to do things God’s way rather than his own. And then, God was able to use him to do what he was called to do and lead the people to freedom.
Be patient, Queenie. Let God do things His way and you just let Him take care of you till He is finished. He wants your husband to return to you, but He knows that it must be your husband that makes that choice. It was after all, your husband that made the choice to chase after another woman, and it must be he who chooses to return.
And make no mistake; your husband is missing much more than a graduation during all of this. He is missing out on a relationship with his children that can never be replaced, even if it eventually is restored, the time lost is gone forever and some day, he will realize what he has given up and know that it was he who threw it all away. If he is willing at that time to turn from his own ways, he will return. If not, God will continue to care for you and watch over you, but you have to be willing to let go of your husband in order for God to work on him.
Unless you can reach a place of letting him go, the pain of what your husband has done will eat at you and will utterly destroy what love you have left for him. If that happens, you will no longer be willing to take him back when God is done with him. You must heal for now and just like those who chose to follow God while scattered around the globe, God will someday be able to return you to a place of contentment and peace, though others, including your husband, might never reach the Promised Land because of their own selfishness and continued sins.
We win Cinders, I have printed it out and put it around me at work. I'll print out another one for home and place them all over.
Graduations was absolutely amazing last night. The valedictorina speech was unbelievable. I got a copy and plan to keep it for a long time to reread. I wish I could post it on here. Her parents must be so proud of her. And to think I remember her when she was in 3rd grade. The evening wasn't too cold depending on who you asked. My SIL was freezing, I was very comfortable with my layers and blankets.
The grad nite went off with just a tad hitch. The rented buses went to the high school instead of the amphitheatre, so we had to entertain them for about 45 more minutes. From reports, the grads had a blast and enjoyed the "secret" places. I'm really glad.
My son looked beyond handsome. I was so proud because I understood what it took for him to get here. Not just this past year and what he has endured and dealt with but truly his whole life. This is the child who when born saw life as empty and was so angry at the world. I don't want to bore people with the details, but this child has grown and become something that only G-d could have created. He has the most awesome qualities and is such a babe. I can't believe I gave birth to him.
I was never the helpless person before D-day. But what I became after D-day was something beyond imagination. And you are right, this time since D-day, I could never have thought I would be who I have become. I would not imagined that I could truly face G-d each day and know that I am a good person who is overcoming her wreckage of the past and creating a life for my children that is full of love, hope and pride. I would not have believed I could face these FEELINGS head on and not destroy myself over it. I would not have thought I could like myself, but I am willing to work on that. Admired around the world, that is an absolute NO. I lived in a world that fed my ego because I volunteered. I have a life today where I am able to walk through people's most horrid events of their life, understand how they feel and believe in them enough to keep on going like all of you did with me.
Thanks Bugs, that passage is perfect for the what ifs, because by far those are they things that bring me down. I can't say for sure, but I don't believe WH was there last night, but at the very least he wasn't around our son to enjoy this momentous occasion in his young life. But that's his problem.
This time last year I wouldn't have believed what life would have entailed. And I can accept that I have no idea what a year from today will be like accept for one thing. G-d will be the leader of my life. And for that, I am GRATEFUL and honored he didn't give up on me.
Unless you can reach a place of letting him go, the pain of what your husband has done will eat at you and will utterly destroy what love you have left for him.
I had thought I had let him go, intellectually I know this is what G-d wants and I want to OBEY. truly...
But the way you just said this... besides praying, what more can I do. How does my heart let him go. I'm trying so hard for this and praying too.
Hey Mark,
Thank you for what your wrote. I have always told you how your words center me and ground me. I have missed you. How was your trip?
My trip was fine other than being too short. My wife and I are taking our granddaughter to our vacation place this weekend so she can play on the beach and go fishing with Grandpa.
And just so you know, I have been here, trying to keep up on your thread, but without much of anything to say, so I have just been reading and praying for you.
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besides praying, what more can I do.
Nothing...and that was my point.
I think you need to find something to do when you begin to think about him so that you can move past it quickly instead of going over it in your mind. Having not been where you are right now, I really don't know what that might be, but I read in your posts almost daily about how you miss him and how sad you are about all of this. I know the sadness part and even though we are well on the way to what I hope to be a full recovery and a better marriage than we had before, I still feel sadness over what might have been myself at times.
And that is the problem...
The what might have been part is what gets me down. I find myself wondering "what if?" But what if I had died in a car crash at 18? I certainly had that potential back then. The way I once drove would scare DS to death, and he thinks of himself as both fearless and reckless in his driving. So I have learned, or rather still am learning, that "what ifs" have to be replaced by "what is" in order to move forward. Until then, "what might be" can never come to pass.
I just wanted to let you know that God can and will bless your Plan B efforts no matter how that plays out for the future.
And I know all about being proud of your son at graduation. Our DS finished high school a semester early and already had a semester in college when he received his diploma with the rest of the class. The school made a point of listing all those who had already taken college credit courses and missed him in the list because he had already been away at college for the entire semester and when they sent out the forms to have the kids fill them in, he was of course not there.
And we just got to see him in a cap and gown again when he got his degree in business...Mom and Dad were both so proud.
Now if he'd just find a real job and a place to live...
And how often does grandpa get to see grandaugher. The beach, water, heat, sun and family. It just doesn't get any better than that, does it.
Can I put something out here for you walk through with me for clarity. There is NO DOUBT I carried and still carry enormous guilt of my past wreckage and hurts that contributed to the breakdown of my M and family. I almost didn't think I would make it through when I truly realized who and what I had become.
For so long I didn't have clarity of knowing what happened and how much was my fault. I was willing to take it all on. But at some point G-d forgave me and no longer was I contributing to the destruction of the M. I wasn't given the chance to make it better or worse. It was just simply taken from me. That was HARD to swallow because me, who could fix anything wasn't given that opportunity because G-d wanted me out of this.
I KNOW what this journey is about, and I am so trying to stay out of it. The feelings are the part I can't control. Your suggestions are good as to what to do. I know others have suggested that.
But what is a blessing is that G-d keeps giving me clarity on the situation. What WH did last night by not showing up or having anything to do with his children in ON HIM. It's not my job to keep him informed, or keep their relationship going. I think G-d is helping me understand that WH is more sick that what I did or didn't do to him and therefore I can be set free. Does that make sense?
Congratulations, Queenie, on raising a superb young man! That is a feat in itself.
Oy, the what if's will drown you. I'm with Mark. When you hear yourself saying 'what if' replace if with IS. What if's come from living in the past; they have nothing to do with right now, and as you know, right now is all we have.
Right now, your husband is a cad. He is as he is right now. Accept him. Yes, he could be avoiding his issues, and therefore, ALIEN, but he is who he is TODAY. Nothing you say or do will change that.
I don't avoid that anymore. I don't allow myself to believe that PWC doesn't get what he's doing. That's just not so. He knows, he lives it everyday.
When you can get to a place where you stop taking responsibility for his choices, as if you are the cause of it, you will like yourself a whole lot more. You will love yourself.
So you've made mistakes. Who hasn't? That's in the past, and can only define who you are now if you let it.
This is true. It's not a spigot that you can just turn your love and care for someone on and off, especially your spouse with whom you share so many memories and with whom you share children. I don't think anyone expects you to just STOP loving him. I don't think it's even possible.
Queenie, you will ALWAYS have SOME kind of feeling for your husband if he doesn't return and gradually the pain of what he's done will lessen for you. In the meantime, recognize that your feelings are true. It's what you do WITH your feelings that make your life different.
When you start to feel despair, hopelessness and lonliness, tell God. Ask Him to take it from you. Immediately, turn to something else in your mind. Think about how good God is. Think about your children. Think about others who may be hurting. Go DO something to help someone else. There's ALWAYS someone out there who is hurting as much as or worse than you.
You're a lady of class with a HUGE good heart. Start taking care of that heart because there are people in your life and in your future who will depend on you, and your big ole heart.
And how often does grandpa get to see grandaugher.
Actually I get to see her just about every day. She and her mommy live with us and we often baby sit while DD is at work.
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The beach, water, heat, sun and family. It just doesn't get any better than that, does it.
I can't think of any way it could.
Queenie, I don't expect you to turn off your feelings for your husband. He has done all he could to do that and many would by now hate him as much as he was once loved.
The fact of the matter is that you will need that love for him if he ever decides to come home. It will be your love for him that will give you the strength to take him back. After what has already happened, there is no other reason to even try.
You can't fix him and I know you know that. And it is OK to be sad about his shirking his responsibility to his family and missing his son's graduation. That is something he can never get back. It is gone forever. And it is OK to be sad about that as well, but you cannot make it right and you can't make it better and you will never get the things lost back either.
So make the most of this time. Make your life, with your sons the best it can be. You have the relationship only you can have with them. When they are older they will love you all the more for it.
You did not create this situation and did not leave anything undone to prevent ending up in Plan B. You did all you could to stop the insanity of what was going on. You did a marvelous Plan A right up to the point of delivering your Plan B letter. You carried yourself with dignity and hope long after most would have thrown in the towel and sought revenge.
Now it's time to turn to what you can do for the future. You must do it for you and for your boys. You can't replace their father, but it now falls to you to pick up the slack and be there for them because your husband is not. In order to be there, you must start taking care of yourself and your own needs so that you don't fall apart when they need you.
And just so you know, it is OK to be angry. You should be angry. You did not choose this; it was chosen for you by someone acting out of purely selfish motives.
And rest assured that God did not choose this for you either. It is not punishment for past wrongs. You already know you have been forgiven for things you have done in the past. Act from that forgiven state and move forward with God's help and protection because you still have much to do.
I also want to echo what you are being told by others. I have seen your posts to others who are hurting. That can be your greatest offering to God, to help others who are living through the same pain you have suffered. This is how God can use even the worst day of our lives to His glory and benefit. You can offer support that only comes from having lived through the terror and trauma of the experience. Some day that could be your legacy, that you were able to transfer your strength of character to those who felt as lost and hopeless when they arrived here as you did on your first visit.
You have here 235 pages of sorrow, anguish, fear, and finally peace of knowing that you have fought the best fight possible and though the outcome is still in doubt, you have endured it all and are a winner.
Don't lose hope. Build the best life and the best relationship you possibly can with your sons. Someday your husband may want to join you, but if he does not, you will still have the life and family you can be proud of and the admiration of all those who have come to know you during this time of your life.
Know this, that God is using you even as I type this. Without this thread many might give up hope and bail out when they realize that they have been betrayed by the one they love. Your faith has been made stronger and more real than ever before. You see, God only uses broken vessels. Until we are truly broken, He can't do much with us because we think we stand on our own. But when we reach the end of our own strength, that is when He can really use us and show His real power.
Yep, God definitely uses cracked pots...
Print that one out...
God uses cracked pots!
Until we are broken, we ain't worth much at all. but once utterly smashed to bits, He gives us our real value to use us for His purposes.
I don't write anything for over a week and now I can't shut up...
...sometimes struggling with our feelings is part of the process...
...I have come to view 'feelings' as messengers...and ONLY that...
...they are neither the source of the pain nor are they good decision-makers....
...but can be very INSISTENT about being HEARD... because they take their role very seriously... and won't go AWAY until they KNOW that they have been heard... and KNOW that you are DOING something about it!
...I am trying to learn to think of them as 'friends'... very very old friends...
... and like a puzzle... or peeling layers off an onion....try to figure out what their MESSAGE is....
I would venture to say it is this:
(((((((((((((((((((QUEENIE IS WORTHY)))))))))))))))
Queenie hang in there.....plan B does get better...
I thought I had to let you know how right you are when you say "we don't know whats happening on the otherside of the mountain"My WH and OP have both been fired,I don't know why!!DS18 told me..its bad news for me financially but at least MAYBE fantasyland might be crumbling..
We do have the upper hand in this awful experience of affairs in that MB gives us the knowledge and tools to cope with it all. I know it doesn't make the pain any less but we can be sure that most of the times they don't "live happily ever after"
I am ok... I have been swamped at work and unable to log on. Last night when I finally got home after a LONG day I was faced with my OS there and quite upset. What I came to learn was that he and his brother got into quite a serious fight, where YS chose to leave.
Because of you on here, I sought G-d for guidance, well to be TOTALLY honest, anger took over at first when my older son threw words back in my face. I ripped out a draw and threw it into the closet to relieve frustration. I missed and now have a sligth hole in my rented door...UGH... But what came about was me sitting down on the couch and begging G-d for help on this. Surrendering myself to him to break me as much as he needed and giving this to him.
A calm settled. I called YS to come home and when he walked in the door I told him that what happened was absolutely unacceptable and that is he didn't want to live by my rules he can go live with his dad. He told me he didn't want that. Not knowing that he had been hit in the face, when I went to go speak with him further I saw his face. I had him come out where we got ice, a towel and I made him lie down on the couch with me while I held him and told him I loved him. I didn't know what to say, so I prayed and prayed inside my heart. And then the words flowed. My OS didn't come home and that was probably a good thing. He is ANGRY that his dad didn't come to his graduation. This morning I came to work and saw an email from my DD where she was completely torn apart by the anger that each one of her brothers took out on her last night. I was so proud of her for writing me and owning her feelings of hurt.
And so... what I tried to avoid has gone on long enough and I feel that G-d is giving me strength to begin to truly build a new life for my children and yes myself and create a family that is healthy and eventually healed and happy.
So I sent this letter to my children and I would like to thank you Luna for what you wrote because I just included it in my letter. It may not be perfect but it's a start and I am committed to this because I have no choice. I have three young lives who are depending on me and somehow G-d will give me the guidance to move forward. I haven't had a chance to read what you all have written. I apologize and will as soon as I can. I love you all so much and am so grateful you are in my life.
Here's the email to them. My darlings,
What has happened to this family is beyond our control. We didn’t choose this but we are going to deal with this head on.
And this starts today. Each one of us has feelings and emotions of what has happened and have tried to brush them under the table and say they don’t exist. BUT they do. And what happened last night is evidence of that.
Each one of you has a lot of dad and a lot of me inside of you. The simply fact is, each one of us is dealing with this the only way we know how and doing the best we can. But that’s not good enough anymore. The healing begins TODAY. But that is going to require us to learn new ways of dealing with the emotions that are inside of us. This is not a choice. I will no longer live in a home where people don’t take responsibility for their feelings or actions and blame other people.
We are all angry about what dad did. We are all saddened. We want things to be different and to keep lying about this is unhealthy.
I am the leader of the family now and I am going to help us heal as a family because G-d is leading me to. But this is going to require us to learn new ways and new things. It is absolutely NOT ACCEPTABLE to HIT one another. I will NOT tolerate violence. It is however ok to be PISSED off and ANGRY and need an avenue to vent that anger. But we have to learn to vent our anger in healthy ways. Got it.
We are still a family. And we are going to become a healthy family and learn to own our feelings and stop blaming other people. Understand.
Your dad and I didn’t do a very good job of teaching you some important lessons in life about how to work through problems, and that is changing because I am learning new ways to handle emotions and work through them. Dad and I didn’t have good boundaries to each other and our own selves. We didn’t set clear responsibilities on what is and isn’t our problems and as a result each one of us, will be learning this together. If you choose not to be a part of this, that is your choice, but you will no longer live with me because I choose l’chaim (life).
I love you kids beyond words. And honestly, if it weren’t for you I would have given up and gone away because I didn’t want to deal with life and get through this. But I didn’t have a choice because you need your mom. You need me to step up, seek G-d and find the strength to move our lives forward to recovery and become whole once again.
When each one of us have had a chance to calm out we will sit down and process through what happened, what is going on for each one of us and come up with a plan of action on how to proceed. We will instill boundaries on how we are going to own our own feelings, take responsibility on taking care of ourselves when we are having feelings and accept that each one of us have a right to our feelings.
Someone just wrote this on my thread about feelings….
...sometimes struggling with our feelings is part of the process...
...I have come to view 'feelings' as messengers...and ONLY that...
...they are neither the source of the pain nor are they good decision-makers....
...but can be very INSISTENT about being HEARD... because they take their role very seriously... and won't go AWAY until they KNOW that they have been heard... and KNOW that you are DOING something about it!
...I am trying to learn to think of them as 'friends'... very very old friends...
... and like a puzzle... or peeling layers off an onion....try to figure out what their MESSAGE is....
Be forwarned that in this NEW FAMILY, we are going to figure out what the messages are and help each other learn to deal with them. No longer will we live like we used to and stuff. If you choose to not live this new way you have my permission and loving blessings to find somewhere else to live. I hope you’ll choose to be a part of our new healthy life. I am looking forward to it.
All my love and respect, Mommy…..
They don't call me mommy anymore by the way... They are too old, but still my babies...
Queenie, I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. What a beautiful, HEALTHY letter to write to your children. From where I sit, you've risen to a whole new level in your growth and spirituality. Good for you.
Queenie, I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. What a beautiful, HEALTHY letter to write to your children. From where I sit, you've risen to a whole new level in your growth and spirituality. Good for you.
AMEN! I HAVE THE UTMOST LOVE AND RESPECT FOR YOU!!
Queenie, I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. What a beautiful, HEALTHY letter to write to your children. From where I sit, you've risen to a whole new level in your growth and spirituality. Good for you.
I will take this success and own it b/c this is G-d working in my life.
But have no doubt, this is also YOUR and EVERYONE ELSE's SUCCESS too. It's cool isn't it.
Queenie that was beautiful...I am sitting at work doing the late shift till 10 pm and I am crying!!!Thank goodness I'm on my own!
My DS15 is angry with me and went to his dad today till tuesday or maybe forever...his words.. I think I must write him a letter too as he doesn't listen.... You are such a wonderful soul your kids will ALWAYS be proud of you.. WH's will never understand the hurt and turmoil they have caused even if they do come back...thats what saddens me the most... We will make it through this....
Mimi's right. They do get it once they've come home for real. There are still moments that come up that cause my dear husband to remember and regret, four years later.
For the first time I don't care what WH does or doesn't do. That's his deal.
I'm just going to heal this family and create a home for him to come back to that will support him if he ever decides we are worthy enough.
My WH is in G-ds hands, there is nothing I can do for him. But my babies need me and just as they are in G-ds hands as well, I can serve G-d by helping them to grow and heal.
Right on, Queenie! Beautifully executed! I'm not even surprised by this development; YOU have finally let go. You get it now. You have to be the best Queenie you can, and that is it. What a loving letter. I am just bubbling over with glee for you.
I want to share this with you... which you may have already noticed.
My "boys", striving to be MEN, express ANGER when they are HURTING the MOST. One of my son's even said to me: "You're trying to PUNK me out and make me CRY"...while I was trying to hold him back from beating ANOTHER hole in the wall with his fist..that was during the whole AFFAIR mess...YUCK...
That was a beautiful letter. You are such a wonderful mummy. I wish I could really hug you. I'll give you another reason to continue being strong, just like your babies need you, the newbies like myself need you as well. We need you to guide us through these times, and I can see no better teacher than yourself.
I really appreciate what you just said. That means a lot to me. It makes me feel useful to be helpful and be there for people who have to go through this.
I can relate so much with what they are going through. As far as I'm concerned you did the right thing by taking control over the issue and letting them know you are there for them.
You know my story and know what holding on to the anger can do.
I am sitting here struggling to find the words to match the feelings after reading one of the most beautiful, awe-inspiring letters I have ever read in my entire life. I had to stop to go for tissues so I could see to type this post!
I'm rarely at a loss for words! What more can I say that hasn't been said?
I am in awe of you, my friend!
I don't think there is a single thing that you could have done better.
Thank you for what you wrote. I'm so honored to know you and watch you. You are one of my heros and this day is also your success. I read and read how you were growing, changing and moving on.
I didn't think I could do it, but I did see you and others. I know it just takes time and that's the part I would like to speed up.
Today, well today is a good day and I am grateful to G-d.
I think you were telling the future of what was to happen in these 24 hours.
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Unless you can reach a place of letting him go, the pain of what your husband has done will eat at you and will utterly destroy what love you have left for him.
I hope that what I have walked through last night and today puts my heart in a place of letting him go truly.
PLEASE - DON'T EVER STOP YOUR WORDS COMING OR SHORTENING THEM.... I learn so much from you.
SD, Thanks SD, I actually have that book and read it, not as often as I should. Ah, Bramble, I miss her lots. I hope she is ok and knows that her help is still reaching out to people and we miss her. She was one of the first people who spoke to me EARLY on....
Ah, BR. Yes, she has helped many. Being ACOA and living with PWC while alcohol seemed to rule him, her advice was very timely, to say the least.
There were days when I wanted to HURT PWC so badly, because he was finding NEW WAYS to abandon me, via the alcohol. I read and attended meetings and began to get centered. Unfortunately, I found that my threshhold for Bullshite was getting lower and lower, and the bar was raising up. PWC was not ready to meet that standard, and I was unwilling to live with him as he was. I loved him, but knew that completely letting go and separating was best for me.
I also learned to separate myself from his problems. *I* was not the real problem, but I blamed myself for so much of what were his problems.
I think I'm going to pick up my copy of "The Language of Letting go" and give a couple days a read, just to pep me up.
You have left the safety of the plateau now, Queenie. Buckle up!
*I* was not the real problem, but I blamed myself for so much of what were his problems.
Where do we learn this from, but most importantly what a lesson to learn to stop doing. Our personal recovery depends on this and so much else, doesn't it.
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You have left the safety of the plateau now, Queenie. Buckle up!
Now if my weight would follow suit.
Seriously.... I HATE rollercoasters. BUT I LOVE to FLY.
Your parents were alcoholics.. Mine too. Another thing in common.
Somehow I feel safer knowing you are around. Thank you.
Kinda of G-d like how close you were to your writings yesterday and didn't even know it. G-d certainly was working in me and giving me something to concentrate that is more important to support isn't it.
Sometimes I think I am just plain stupid to have FAITH in my H and that one day he will come home. NO ONE but G-d knows what is happening.
But today my kids need me and I need to know that I built them the very best life I could with G-d's love and help.
ARe you getting excited for the weekend and time with that awesome grandchild of yours?
Where do we learn this from, but most importantly what a lesson to learn to stop doing.
I don't know where EXACTLY I learned it from, but I always remember a latent feeling of guilt when people weren't happy, hence my need to fix it, and be the bright spot in their life all the time, entertaining them until they feel better, meanwhile not getting what I need from those relationships.
As I got older, this happy marionette thing began to wane and I noticed people not being so happy about that. It was easier to do as a child, I could give and give and give, because even a smile made it all worth it. As my life became more challenging, it became more difficult to keep up.
I'm all for helping a sister or brother when they are down, but not at my own expense. How can I be good for anyone if I never get what I need? It's a good lesson to learn, but very difficult to stop old habits. Those habits were things OTHERS were accustomed to, and sometimes requires changing relationships. Some people just don't respond well.
My brother and step dad are alcoholics. My sister, possibly. Me, NO. My mother is deceased, but I could see her USING alcohol for relief from the daily stressors of life.
I tend to drink socially and only when I really wanna. I never crave it. I suppose I should consider myself lucky, I seemed to have dodged that bullet (for now). I keep an eye on myself, but I don't have a compulsion to drink.
Just wanted to stop by before I head out to our cottage for the weekend. If I can get the laptop card to work there, I might be a round a bit, but I do have plans to do some fishing with my granddaughter, so it won't be much.
Ok, here's the deal. I'm just going to put it out there and be done with it because I am practicing total honesty.
I had a guy email me for a date, so I went to meet him for coffee. We actually had a nice time except all he wanted to do was get me into bed. Now on the one hand it was really nice to be wanted, but it truly disgusted me and I just kept praying to G-d.
So I go to my Alanon meeting, worked on the 6th step, and then AA meeting. Where that guy who I have talked about before showed an interest in me, was the chair and chose the topic, what was your life before you came in the rooms and what is it like today.
He called on me and I felt like G-d dipped inside and took me on a ride of reality for how long and how hard I have worked on building back my life and self-respect.
I NEVER EVER thought I would be appealing to anyone else. But I have experienced two times where that isn't true. But even though it's nice, it's not what I want.
I want my H. And gratefully with G-d's love and working in my life, I will keep moving forward on the path he has designed for me and continue to become the respectable, loving and good miracle he created.
Today I walked in the town parade for the first time. My feet were tired in the end, but it was really cool knowing so many people and saying hi along the way.
Off to a graduation party with my OS who came home last night, finally.
They are on their way. There was an early impromptu b-day party for our niece who is visiting from Florida with her two kids. She is my wife's twin sister's oldest and lived with us during her Jr High and High School years. For years she called me "Dad" and my wife "Mom."
They should be here soon. Our fishing trip together was actually planned for tomorrow anyway, so the fact that they are later than planned only means I ate supper alone and didn't have to cook as much or wash so many dishes.
I hope you are having a magnificent time with them. Happy Father's Day to you my friend. May it be the best ever.
Well, my good luck ran out today. While driving to the graduation party and Black Diamond cop stopped me for expired plates. I told him that my H wasn't giving me any money. He wrote me up, but explained how I could mitigate it. I was grateful and will take care of it.
Luckily I know the judge and he actually is a nice person. I will bring the court papers that are showing WW is witholding money and hopefully it will work out.
I doubt it. He isn't like that. He can be very understanding, but he goes by the letter of the law. And where I have to appear is small town, where legal stuff with WW is in big town.
son is spending the night w/ their dad & will go to church w/ x, x's w, x-mils tomorrow. xfil was diagnosed w/ lung cancer a couple of weeks ago. 80% chance it won't be treatable based on the aggressive type he has and on his advanced age.
dog and I went to see my mom tonight. we never do much there except sit around and enjoy being together. her memory of the recent past is flaky and her hearing is horrible so you can't have discussions about your life.
However, son and I went to TV show taping last night...about songwriters and their songs. Patty Griffin, Jeff Owen (of 'Alabama', and Kris Kristoferson were the songwriters performing. It was very interesting. Son actually grumbled about it beforehand but really enjoyed. My children are more interested in country music than am I. (I did learn that Krisoferson wrote "Me and My Bobby McGee")
I'm glad your daughter seems to be having a good time.
I just broke Plan B rule something or another. YS just got home and had an absolutely fabulous day playing with his friends.
I asked him innocently if he had seen his father. Oh yes, he was there with her, holding her hands, kissing her in public of my town and I'm just crushed.
Oh Cinder, G-d I love him so much. When will this pain stop. When will I not care and just have moved on and find someone else.
Why can't I stop loving him. What is wrong with me.
He was walking around a park that was MY park and MY TOWN with trash and there is NOTHING I can do. I feel so utterly hopeless and sad....
You feel betrayed. You had dreams. I was there. Time. It takes time. How do you think I felt when I had to help my 2 year old hold the phone while he talked to his dad?
You are giving him power over you. When you give him over to G-d, when you move to not caring what a jerk he makes of himself, when you go to seeing the man he has become, you will move past this.
So, he was kissing on this woman...she was kissing on him.....would you want to be kissing on a man, holding the hand of a man who had treated his wife the way this man has. He does not deserve you.
What was the scripture I sent you from Isaiah....chapter 51? Who will always be there to love you?
This might woman of G-d just wants to stop the sadness or love in her heart for her H.
Why can't this grieving process be over. Why can't I stop wishing that he will come around.
Oh Believer.... how I wish you were here to say affairs always end.
Here he is out enjoying the fair, spending money, well that's a guess and I can barely afford food today and electricity.
Im not believer, but i do believe they almost aways end, and I do believe the God is there with his hand on what is going on. praying for you. {{{{{QUEENIE}}}}}
Lock him away somewhere so that he can't touch your "soul". That's why you've heard me say that I had to pretend that my H was DEAD. he had to be TOTALLY GONE from me.. or, like you, I would feel "hopeless and sad".
It's really nothing NEW or DIFFERENT about him walking around in a park, holding hands with her, Queenie. It's BAD for you wherever they are or whatever they are doing. To me, it's worse that he sleeps with her every night, that he lives with her..while his wife and children can't ride around with legalized license plates...
He's off in some fairy tale world... la-la land...YUCK...
Lock him away somewhere so that he can't touch your "soul". That's why you've heard me say that I had to pretend that my H was DEAD. he had to be TOTALLY GONE from me.. or, like you, I would feel "hopeless and sad".
It's really nothing NEW or DIFFERENT about him walking around in a park, holding hands with her, Queenie. It's BAD for you wherever they are or whatever they are doing. To me, it's worse that he sleeps with her every night, that he lives with her..while his wife and children can't ride around with legalized license plates...
He's off in some fairy tale world... la-la land...YUCK...
Yeah!!!!
What Mimi said!!!!!
Just think about that.
Are YOU getting any counseling? There may be some community based programs operating on a sliding-scale fee base that could help you.
when you move to not caring what a jerk he makes of himself, when you go to seeing the man he has become, you will move past this.
Tell me how to do this? I'm trying, I'm praying.
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Why was your WH on your MIND????
This may seem pretty stupid, but he isn't MY WH, he is the WH. My H was on my mind and that's what is hurting. But that is the past and I just got caught off guard by asking. Also, because it's father's day and I just simply hurt for my kids to not have their dad. Nothing special or different than so many others, but when it's you it just seems more personal.
[/quote] Why was your son's answer more than "Yes"? [/quote] Because stupidly I asked those questions. I'm still hoping that affairland isn't good. So then I guess I am thinking about WW.
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I betcha you WISH there was something you could do.
No, it just simply hurt was all and mad me sad. I truly have come to accept there isn't anything I can do. But I still have these deep feelings. And there isn't anything I can do but acknowledge them, post here, get my 2 x 4's and keep moving forward.
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How can you REMOVE him from YOUR BRAIN????
I have NO CLUE, other than keep praying for this. I can't, but G-d can.
The only difference about him walking around in a park - my local park, is that we are a small community and what he is doing is taking his relationship more public in front of everyone and that just simply hurts. Semantics, yes, but it is what it is.
I was going to counseling Cinders, but then lacrosse took over my life and I couldn't get there. Then it became the money issue and until that is resolved and I am caught up on bills... I'll go back to her.
He is your husband, addicted, or under a hex or whatever. His cruelty only stands to hurt you more if you continue to probe about him. Stop that, Queenie. What purpose does hearing about him serve?
Affairland is good/bad/ugly on any given day. You picked the wrong day to ask questions. Assume from here out, that you could be asking questions on their good days or even just good moments. Leave it alone Queenie. The bad days are there.
I'm not meaning to sound harsh because you know full well that I fully understand your pain. Because of that I know what you HAVE to do. I know what I HAD to do. I still do this to deal with HURTFUL situations.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR ARSENAL READY!! Folks don't wait until the hurricane comes and then run out and tape the windows.
The key is ADVANCED PREPARATION.
Better yet. How do ARMIES prepare for BATTLE? Wait until they see the enemy at hand and then run in and get their WEAPONS?
PLANS AND STRATEGIES for occasions when he is likely to come to mind. LITERALLY, I was serious. How can you SEAL HIM UP? CLOSE YOUR MIND TO HIM. LOCKED SHUT!!
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Because stupidly I asked those questions. I'm still hoping that affairland isn't good. So then I guess I am thinking about WW.
MIND WORK!! This is one of the RECOMMENDED STRATEGIES!! THINK FIRST!! DO NOT LET THE EMOTIONS RULE!! If you THOUGHT about this before asking, how would your son know? Just because he saw them kissing in the park does not mean that AFFAIRLAND is GOOD!! ALL ASSUMPTIONS. YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS!! ONLY FACTS!!
Do you see what I am saying? A SEALED MIND..A SEALED MIND...
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And there isn't anything I can do but acknowledge
NOPE..you've got to come up with A PLAN to combat being overruled by your FEELINGS because they are so INTENSE they will pop up and CONTROL YOU if you don't CONTROL them...
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Also, because it's father's day and I just simply hurt for my kids to not have their dad.
Don't take on your kid's feelings..sounds like your son was having a great day...
I could give my Father's Day and Mother's Day speech but I'll simply say that IMO fathers and mothers should be honored and respected EVERYDAY...It's your HUSBAND that's missing out.....
LITERALLY, I was serious. How can you SEAL HIM UP? CLOSE YOUR MIND TO HIM. LOCKED SHUT!!
I know you weren't kidding. I just don't know how to do it. I could shake my head, immediately ask G-d to remove those thoughts, keep myself busy all the time or as much as possible. Work, I hardly thought about him on Friday because I was so stressed and busy at work.
It's the weekend and bar far these are my hardest times, so I need to work on this.
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If you THOUGHT about this before asking, how would your son know?
I don't understand what you mean by this.
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NOPE..you've got to come up with A PLAN to combat being overruled by your FEELINGS because they are so INTENSE they will pop up and CONTROL YOU if you don't CONTROL them...
For so long I have been working on feeling my feelinsg, now I have to get to the next level of combating them? OY VEY....
How do you do that. Truly, feeling these feelings are just so new for me.
And I know you are souding harsh to be mean. You have always cared more about my life than my feelings, because that's what is on the line.
This is just one more layer for me to walk through that is really hard. I'll do anything, willing to go to any lengths, I just need to learn how.
You and everyone else always has my permission to deliver the 2 x 4's. My survival depends on it.
Me too, Mimi. It was always therapeutic for me to organize and toss things or donate them. I sometimes have a hard time with parting with things, but not when I got in sad moods. OUT it all went.
Queenie, the affair will end, just like they all do. Trust in that.
My grays are showing on the top of my head. It's all that swimming and sunning I've been doing.
Seriously, Queenie, your WH is the one losing out, not you.
STick to that healing philosophy that you've talked to your kids about. Thinking negative thoughts is bad news.
If you heard your WH and ho were arguing, you would then wonder why he would choose THAT over you. It's a lose:lose situation. PWC could be humping an entire team of field hockey players, and I would never know. I stay in the dark in all ways. See no evil/hear no evil.
Check out these posts by Charlotte. She uses the PERSPECTIVE I TRIED to use and what I've been recommending for you:
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don't know. I think that whole 1 year for 5 is a bunch of bunco. Everybody is different and for me it's been like grieving for a lost loved one who has passed on.
And really, it's like Jonesy died and there is only Mr. Gray now so it makes sense.
I counted my grieving period as starting on D-day. That was pretty much it, he found someone else even though I didn't die first from my illness.
I can understand it in a way and I don't hold any anger towards him or her. The whole exposure on Brave New World day did wonders for me!
I don't know if he will come sniffing around as believer says he will after the A ends. Right now that's my greatest fear! LOL!!
Anyway, just my .02 on the grieving. In my case anyway.
Charlotte
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Thank you. I am not really in pain anymore. It's like I've crested the hill and I'm now walking down the other side. There's nothing he can do to me that's going to make any difference one way or the other.
He has trained himself to hate me and that is that. Me? I decided in December or January, one of the two, that I was going to have to purge him from my soul and that is the line I actively pursued.
Now I do have times once in a while where I start feeling bad for him because of what's going to happen to him and that's something I'll have to be careful about. I talked with Shiny the other day about this for the method I'll use to deal with it when I do have those feelings, though.
I'm not going to be around to see the crash but I know I'll hear about it from the kids, who are still behind me 100%.
Sometimes I have to grin, though, because one of the worst things for me was the way they demonized me so badly. Even OWH's brother said how bad he felt for me when we saw him and OWH at the concert last month. Well, I know he never expected to be whacked so badly by me through Shiny and I have to admit that it IS funny to think about it sometimes. I'm sure they thought I was going to fold and they could tuck me neatly out of the way in a cubbyhole at one of the mental hospitals!
My biggest thing now, though is what to do. I had intended to attend culinary arts school and now I'm leaning in another direction. I may end up doing both, I don't know.
Dancing has been a really great thing in the healing process. If I can hang in there a little longer I can move on to teach, which would be great because I'm not all that interested in competition, I just love to dance!! I'm contemplating doing at least one, though, just to see what it feels like.
The hardest thing, and I've seen it discussed here a lot lately, is the dating thing. I don't even want to stick a toe in that mess! I'm just going to move along and not even think about it. I am not anxious to be with anyone else or have someone special in my life right now. Which is why I recently decided that I'll probably go ahead and keep my ring on even after the divorce is final. It offers at least a small layer of protection. I might change my mind about that but as of now I'm keeping it on. After the symbolism ceremony at the end of it, that is!! LOL!!
Seriously, Queenie, your WH is the one losing out, not you.
I think the day I truly believe that will be the day I have truly let go.
Because I am the one feeling like I am the one losing out. STUPID I know.
Can't afford highlights, but I can afford a nice color and with my grey the highlights sort of naturally happen. I am one BLESSED WOMAN on the hair and eyes deal.
It doesn't make a difference if you want your marriage restored or not? What happens when he is purged from my soul and there is no love left or I have moved on and he decides he wants to come home.
It seems to me, that if he were really dead and I'm not arguing that my H is gone at all, but DEAD, that's permanent and I would be free. But I'm not. I'm building a new life for myself, leaving the space open for him to come home.
Please help me understand the difference, I think I get it, but evidently I don't. Mimi how did you do you it? How did you think he was dead, purge him from your mind and hold out hope that he would come home?
Because I am the one feeling like I am the one losing out. STUPID I know.
Really. I'm asking you to apply LOGIC. Losing out on what? A man who prefers a CRACK HO over you? You must grow to ACCEPT THIS, Queenie, so that you can GRIEVE. The MAN whom you once knew is GONE. He is TARNISHED by having been with her and THAT MAN will not return.
My H returned a BROKEN MAN who had to pick himself up and put himself back together into a person. He's NOT the same person who he WAS. In some ways, actually in many ways, he's a much better person. But I don't really know who he WAS. I thought he WAS a man who would not have BETRAYED me.
I look at this differently than maybe some do. REALLY, once I learned that my H was having an affair, it did change my WHOLE IMAGE of him. You hear me talk about PEDESTALS. I had put him up on a PEDESTAL. I've since learned that he HATED that, trying to live up to that IMAGE..but NOW, I'm trying to REALLY get to know him.
This being said. I really do believe that your H, AS YOU ONCE KNEW HIM, is DEAD and GONE and it is necessary to GRIEVE the EXPERIENCE of who he was...what you two had together back then.
BUT..BUT..LOCK AWAY INSIDE YOUR HEART..YOUR MEMORIES of HIM..that's where THE LOVE still LIVES. The SAME is TRUE of his LOVE for YOU. This is what YOU TWO would USE to BUILD UPON if/when there is RECOVERY.
Keep holding out LOVE and DESIRE for THE WAYWARD that is seen in the PARK and you will eventually LOSE the LOVE THAT YOU HAVE LEFT..cause HE is as NASTY, SMELLY, UGLY and EVIL as can be...
REMEMBER..she is not with YOUR HUSBAND/AS HE ONCE WAS..that HUSBAND is GONE..she is with the WAYWARD HUSBAND
How did you think he was dead, purge him from your mind and hold out hope that he would come home?
I JUST HAD TO DO IT SOME KIND OF WAY!!
I tried to capture my thinking in the previous post...
I told myself that when if/when he came back, I would deal with it THEN. I BELIEVED what they were telling me that I had to LOCK THAT LOVE AWAY FROM ME and that it was SAFE and that I could RECLAIM it..Steve told me that..Mortarman was telling me that..but I COULDN'T SURVIVE day to day wanting him...
Basically, what I learned is: WE HAD TO FALL "IN LOVE" ALL OVER AGAIN USING WHAT WE HAD LEFT!!
WE HAD TO FALL "IN LOVE" ALL OVER AGAIN USING WHAT WE HAD LEFT!!
And if I don't lock it away there won't be anything left.
I don't know if I have that inside of me. It took me FOREVER to completely open up my heart and soul to him. For SO MANY years he shut down and pushed me away. And when he finally got me completely exposed and open to loving him, he does this.
And if I don't lock it away there won't be anything left.
EXACTLY!!
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I honestly don't know if it's worth it then.
And, of course, that's your choice.
IT WAS EXTREMELY HARD..but well worth it to have a marriage like this FOR ME...
That's where MY RELIGIOUS VIEWS fit in..I believe like CC..
GOD BROUGHT US TOGETHER and it was SATAN trying to pull us apart...I was standing tall against those EVIL SPIRITS....
I've been with my husband since a teenager though and I'm over 50..He would have remained THE LOVE OF MY LIFE..I would have had "GENTLEMEN CALLERS"..I THINK..that's the way I envisioned it...a life like B's....
GOD BROUGHT US TOGETHER and it was SATAN trying to pull us apart...I was standing tall against those EVIL SPIRITS....
Ok, you win.
Because this is what I believe too. He is my SOUL MATE. I feel his pain inside of me I always have. I just didn't know how to give it away to G-d and I'm so sorry I didn't.
G-d told me to let him go and stay out of the way.
I believe we BELONG together.
I dont know if I am strong enough to fight SATAN. And you KNOW that's what I believe is the evil spirits are involved here.
This battle is about the evil spirits, as sure as I am crying right now. I feel it deep in my soul.
But I feel so alone and not many people believe this. When I get into this frame of mind, PLEASE remind me of this. Because it gives me strength again to go on.
This is the silliest thing, but you know what saddens me of all if he doesn't figure this out and come home.
We won't be buried together. He is the other part of my soul that is love and giving because through all the hard times, I have grown to LOVE him more than I ever thought possible.
Queenie, reread Mimi's posts from today, over and over again. It's exactly what I have done, I have mourned, for the most part, the loss of my husband. I have a teensy tiny bit of love left, wonder of all wonders, and it's locked away. I have no idea how it managed to exist during all of this turmoil. Alas, it is there, but I no longer fan the flame or pray for it to remain. It's just there. I think about the man I loved. I have his child, our beautiful boy. It's hard not to see his influence in DS face or words.
I don't know what to say about spouses returning. Mine did, but I didn't recognize him (this still makes me feel a bit sad). Unfortunately, for me and DS, that never changed. I believe he either was not ready or never will be. I'm ready to move on.
There's no saying it any better than what Mimi did here.
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You must grow to ACCEPT THIS, Queenie, so that you can GRIEVE. The MAN whom you once knew is GONE. He is TARNISHED by having been with her and THAT MAN will not return.
To me, PWC was my ultimate mate. Not too mushy, not too firm. Just right, like a good peach. Rare. It has been a great loss for me. I can't speak for PWC. I continue to mourn. it's easier today, but PWC had to do a lot of damage before I got to this point. Must have been God working to break ME.
what saddens me of all if he doesn't figure this out and come home.
We won't be buried together. He is the other part of my soul that is love and giving because through all the hard times, I have grown to LOVE him more than I ever thought possible. _________________________
Focus on TODAY, Queenie. You know about this more than I do. ONE DAY AT A TIME. TODAY you are "in love" with the husband IN YOUR MEMORIES. I'm telling you again. He does not EXIST anymore. THAT IS WHAT I HAD TO COME TO ACCEPT. That's what helped me. That husband, real BACK THEN, has become AN ILLUSION. But NOW, TODAY, HE NO LONGER EXISTS. You came to love HIM but that is not the man that he is TODAY. TODAY... he is a CRACK-HO ADDICTED, GOOD FOR NOTHING, DEADBEAT DAD WHO HAS ABANDONED HIS FAMILY AND GOES AROUND MAKING A FOOL OF HIMSELF IN PUBLIC...
So why would you want to be buried with such a guy????
BURY AWAY your MEMORIES of the HUSBAND THAT WAS...but HE IS NOT LIVING TODAY...
Are you thinking that YOUR HUSBAND is the one who is WITH HER? Do you think that he is being HIMSELF? I didn't look at that way. I knew that MY HUSBAND, as I knew him, couldn't possibly be doing the stuff that he was doing...and TODAY, now that he is SANE, I don't think he knows who THAT GUY was either...he's ASHAMED of what he had become...but as I told you earlier, because of having been THAT GUY and having lived through that, HE IS NOT THE SAME as he was..IS THIS MAKING SENSE? It's seems hard for me to explain. I'm trying...
Queenie, what helped me heal was changing my mindset.
Based on what my x said to me, I realized that that the man I married had been a sham. He projected this persona that I saw but I came to think it had been an act. The marriage I thought I had was, therefore, a lie.
So, I was angry.....REALLY angry.
But, I came to see him a slime. I came to see my current situation as living more truthfully.
If this man is capable of shagging another woman while he has a loving wife at home with is children, he is slime. If he is capable of carrying on with this other woman after leaving his loving wife and children, he is not worthy of them.
Now, he could wake up and see the error of his way. As a child of G-d, he is redeemable. But, until he realizes that, he isn't worthy of you.
I think you may be, like me, addicted to the dream. And, you're scared about the future.
So, do you have any legal obligations for support in place....a legal separation agreement, a request for child support and alimony....I don't remember the legal term but there is, in my state, something you can file ordering support but not requesting any action regarding the status of the marriage.
Get a legal agreement in place and turn him over to the courts so you will know how you are going to feed the children.
Here it is!!! This is what I'm thinking about. It might help you to get on a better financial footing and lay down some of your emotions. And for your h to realize what he has done.
ALIMONY PENDENTE LITE And reread the 12 steps but consider your x to be the addiction.
The 12 Steps
* Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable * Step 2 - Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity * Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God * Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves * Step 5 - Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs * Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character * Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings * Step 8 - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all * Step 9 - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others * Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it * Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood God, praying only for knowledge of God's will for us and the power to carry that out * Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs
How are you today? I'm sorry you are having a rough patch! I know exactly how you feel. I don't know that I could say much better than what has already been said.
Lik others,I, too, look back and think that the person I knew as my H was a complete sham. He put on a persona at the beginning of our M, or perhaps it was ME that had on rose colored glasses. I don't know. Either way, the person he is being TODAY is NOT who I thought he was and is NOT someone worthy of my love.
The love I had IS locked away. Will it ever be un-locked? That's up to Drac. I STILL tell people that I know that deep down inside that Drac is a good man. Most folks are amazed when I say that, and really, I don't say it very often these days as it is rare that Drac IS that good man in any way shape or form. He is a Crazed, Addicted, POS right now. HE has no idea who he is. He's out there with no clue how to fix ground himself back to where he needs to be in what he knows is right.
And, right now, he has NO DESIRE to try to fix himself. Until he does or IF he does, he's all on his own. I can't help him, I can't do it for him, I can't make him see himself as he truly is right now. That all has to come from inside himself, and he has to be willing to surrender himself to God for the help he needs.
One thing *I* think about is this - - -If I were reading the story of Bugs & Drac as a third person on the outside looking in, what would I think? What advise would I give Bugs? Would I not tell her what a POS Drac is? Would I not tell her that she deserves better??
ABSOLUTELY I would!! So, I'd better start telling myself those things. I'd better be truthful and real with myself.
What would you tell Queenie if you read her story???
One thing that Drac said to me at one point really has me stuck a lot. He said, "Bugs, I'm not saying that someday we can't date and fall in love again". WTF? What's that supposed to mean? When he's done Ho'ing around, we might stand a chance? I KNOW how ridiculous that statement is, but yet I continue to allow it to give me a sliver of 'hope'. I cling to it at times as a sign that he still loves me in some way and sees the potential we have together.
I'm working locking that up and away. I can't let it in my day to day life or it's going to keep me tied to him. I need to untie that knot so that I can continue on my path.
Lik others,I, too, look back and think that the person I knew as my H was a complete sham. He put on a persona at the beginning of our M, or perhaps it was ME that had on rose colored glasses. I don't know. Either way, the person he is being TODAY is NOT who I thought he was and is NOT someone worthy of my love.
I am always so reluctant to say these things to you guys. People describe the WS as being Alien or adbucted. I believe they are fully aware of what they are doing, but the FEELINGS of romantic love are strong and sway them to move mountains to have it. I agree more with the addicted state of a WS.
IMO, WS's are exhibiting behaviors that they obviously have within them, it's just the situation that has brought them out. PWC wasn't abducted. He was right there, standing in front of me, making these decisions. He was fully aware of what the consequences could be. We talked of them. He knew.
For me, I know I saw PWC as I wanted to, not always as he was. It wasn't until he had the affairs that I experienced how cold and cruel he can be. That is a part of him, of who he is. You cannot separate this behavior from him.
I believe he shut himself off to experiencing any of my pain. Fantasy land wouldn't be fun that way. I believe he STILL shuts himself off from the full reality of what has been done. It's a hot mess.
How can you say an ADDICTED, BASICALLY DRUNK OR HIGH PERSON is FULLY AWARE OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING? I disagree with you on that one, SL. They are filled with rationalizations and justifications to continue USE. That's not FULLY AWARE and SANE!My H would have gone to ANY LENGTHS to hold on to his SUPPLY..beg, borrow, cheat, steal...THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT THE MAN HE WAS OR THE MAN THAT HE IS..yes, the propensity for ADDICTION to whatever it was IS THERE..WAS THERE...that's what I didn't know about or neither did he..which made him WEAK and VULNERABLE...
It wasn't until he had the affairs that I experienced how cold and cruel he can be. That is a part of him, of who he is. You cannot separate this behavior from him.
How do you know that what you were not aware of was his ADDICTIONS? That's what brings this stuff out. How can you make this a part of his personality given that you see him as having ADDICTIONS?
I believe he shut himself off to experiencing any of my pain. Fantasy land wouldn't be fun that way. I believe he STILL shuts himself off from the full reality of what has been done.
This is what people in ADDICTIONS do. Have you noticed Queenie speaking about LEARNING HOW TO FEEL?
I spoke to Steve Harley about this in trying to diagnose my husband with different personality disorders and psychological problems. He asked me if he did this stuff before he became ADDICTED. I said NO. He said, "You see, it's the ADDICTION"..which he told me that I had to UNDERSTAND and BUY..and you can see that I do...
The thing is THE ADDICT has to get to the point..IF EVER..of being MOTIVATED to BEAT the ADDICTION..that means reaching HIS/HER BOTTOM..whatever that BOTTOM is....sometimes it means LOSING EVERYTHING...
I buy totally into the ADDICTION thing. The difference for me this time is that I am his enemy where last time when he was getting sober from his drugs, I was his using partner.
I think that what I have come to understand on my strong day, which are more than others now, is that we BOTH lived a dry drunk life.
You know how many of you say if the WH is drinking or using, that Plan A won't work because of the entitlement and selfishness. WW in my life is a true alcoholic/addict and this A has put him into relapse, that's why Plan A sorta worked but not really. Until he truly hits rock bottom his selfishness, destructiveness etc. will be out there and his disease will take him down. The only trouble that I keep having is it's not the drug or alcohol this time but the OW. And therefore he can lie to himself a lot more than if he were drinking and using. That's why this is so hard. My H lived in his dry drunk for MANY years and his ability to justify, push down feeling etc is is and has always been his downfall.
Alcoholics are selfish people by nature. Once in the addiction you truly have no control over what you do because the consequences are NOT as important as the benefits of the high. I understand this, I lived this.
It's going to be a LONG time before my WH figures this out or is even willing to change his choices. Sadly, I have to accept this. Because he is truly and addict.
I don't know if this helps or makes sense, I'm having a hard time explaining my words. Unfortunately it's my reality and I am coming to accept it.
If my WH weren't an addict in real life, maybe things would be different, but because he is and will always be, he is in a very dangerous place in his life.
PWC's mother died due to her alcoholism. It was an UGLY death.
PWC started drinking in his 20's, beer mostly. He became a home brewer, but would drink daily. It never seemed like that big of a deal. At the time, I had no idea his mother was an alcoholic, neither did her. Her husband wasn't telling us about the issues they had at home, her drinking, hiding bottles, using before work, yelling at him and their son, physical violence, etc. He enabled her GREATLY, right up until she died.
It's not surprise to me that PWC began self medicating with booze. He went from drinking beer to downing a 2L bottle of rum every weekend, sometimes more, all by himself. It's no wonder recovery didn't work.
IMO, he is an alcoholic. He will certainly not agree with that statment. That would mean he has a problem. In his opinion, our marriage is the problem, I'm the problem, his loss of love for me is the problem.
I get the addiction theory. It makes perfect sense. I went months and months trying to do a Plan recovery, following MB principles. He spent months and months medicating and avoiding.
If it's not the alcohol, then it's the feelings of romantic love that he is after. It doesn't matter what IT is. It takes over and our marriage loses.
I treated PWC as if he was a garden variety wayward. He was not. It took me some time to get that the drinking had gone from a social event to a daily numbing event.
WOW..he may be redoing YOU..found a USING PARTNER...BE THANKFUL it's not YOU again...
YUCK...
Had you ever thought of this?
This is where it gets hard. Because that's what she is to him, a using partner, only he DOESN'T see it that way. He is SO FAR into the ADDICTION, he can't see that it's destroyed his life. He is so into the selfishness and self entitlement, but its not the DRUG so he can still LIE to himself on what's happening.
If you're CODEPENDENT, you're still considered to be ADDICTED to the DRUG, CORRECT? So it's like he's back using.
Exactly, only this disease is so cunning, baffling, he can lie to himself because he really isn't USING. He only found himself someone else to love because he wasn't happy.
My codependency is getting better because I am seeing today that I really might have lost him and that Plan B gave him exactly what he needed, a way out of his life with me.
Oh he absolutely is codependent with her. He WAS with me.
That's why I think that this goes so much deeper. He is one sick human being that has run from his feeligns his whole life. We struggled for so many years as long as I was sick. But as I got healthier and got out of the game, that's when he found her and he changed.
I have no doubt he loves me, he is running from me because I love him totally unconditionally. But he is more importantly running from himself and is blaming me and our marriage.
I think that's what started the possibility of the A and now he is caught up in an ADDICTION...
you are not out there alone with these thoughts. I am thinking them right alongside you. So is Mimi.
For myself, I was not interested in being with a drunk, and watching him slowly waste away, wreaking havoc on his way down. He had already done so much damage. I was not interested in suffering more DDays at his hand, as well as dealing with his alcoholism, and being on guard at all times.
That is a tall order. I did not have the fortitude or desire to keep beating that dead horse.
I still believe he is aware of his choices, just not what they will mean in the end. He chooses to drink and have affairs. HE IS AWARE, on a base level, that this is what he is doing; he's said as much. He doen't, however, choose the consequences.
I have a hard time accepting that we are powerless over our addictions. This is a tough sell for me. I'm working on it. If we were powerless, how would we ever QUIT. I quit smoking. Maybe y'all don't feel that is a tough addiction, but in my life, it is.
Keep your THOUGHT PROCESS going. That's when YOU do so much better, Queenie. WRITE THIS DOWN and when you get into THE FEELING, go back into THINKING..cause you are a SMART and WISE woman and this is a RESOURCE/COPING SKILL for you!! Got me?
You see, Guys. My H is DEFINITELY not an ALCOHOLIC. He can't drink enough to get DRUNK. I've seen him DRUNK about ONCE or TWICE but HE MOST DEFINITELY WAS ADDICTED to the OTHER WOMAN..
He was just like my father who I KNOW for sure WAS AN ALCOHOLIC...
Just as DESPERATE to get with her on the weekends as my father was to get that drink of vodka on his lips...
I have a hard time accepting that we are powerless over our addictions.
That first drink may be a choice, as was the A, but to the true alcoholic/addict there is NO CHOICE after that and unless you are one, you don't understand this.
You think normally, we don't. Our minds are out to destroy us.
Keep your THOUGHT PROCESS going. That's when YOU do so much better, Queenie. WRITE THIS DOWN and when you get into THE FEELING, go back into THINKING..cause you are a SMART and WISE woman and this is a RESOURCE/COPING SKILL for you!! Got me?
I absolutely buy into this, BUT, Mimi.. WH doesn't and more than likely it will be YEARS before he ever does - because our M was forcing him to look at himself.
The question then becomes am I willing to sacrifice my life for him until that time, or live my life. Completely let him go and see what happens in my life.
I love my husband beyond belief. I think I have finally let him go. Because I understand why I have to.
He is a true addict. This A didn't cause him to become one, he was that already. He lived in a dry drunk for years and this is just one more level of it.
I'm scared for him, I'm sad for me and my children and I pray for our future.
It's possible he isn't living in a fog. But he is just absolutely into his ADDICTION.
I absolutely buy into this, BUT, Mimi.. WH doesn't and more than likely it will be YEARS before he ever does - because our M was forcing him to look at himself.
I think you missed my point. I wasn't referring to THE CONTENT of what we are talking about. I was helping you with how to COPE with your FEELINGS as you were asking me about yesterday. When you start TO FEEL..ACKNOWLEDGE the FEELLING..then start TO THINK...go back to YOUR JOURNAL...and start TO PROCESS THE INFORMATION you've gathered about YOUR FEELING...I'm recommending a COPING STRATEGY...
Remember: "WHO GIVES A FLYING FLIP ABOUT WHAT YOUR WH BUYS INTO?"
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The question then becomes am I willing to sacrifice my life for him until that time, or live my life. Completely let him go and see what happens in my life.
Queenie, I want to shake you. Of course, DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR LIFE FOR HIM! Like I was telling you yesterday. Day by day..if he is the WAYWARD, today, DON'T STOP YOUR LIFE ONE MINUTE..not even ONE SECOND for him. This does not mean DIVORCE HIM or carry on with someone else. YOU CAN LIVE YOUR LIFE WITHOUT A MAN IN IT. Can't you?
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He is a true addict. This A didn't cause him to become one, he was that already. He lived in a dry drunk for years and this is just one more level of it.
I think this may be CORRECT but I'm no specialist on this. That's why I was recommending for you to ask someone who is.
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I'm scared for him, I'm sad for me and my children and I pray for our future.
NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER SITUATION ON THIS FORUM WITH ACTIVE WAYWARDS...
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It's possible he isn't living in a fog. But he is just absolutely into his ADDICTION.
What? When we say FOG, we are referring to the ADDICTION.
What's different in your case, is that he's had OTHER ADDICTIONS..A LIFETIME OF ADDICTION...
But I think YOUR APPROACH at this point is the same.
HIS RECOVERY would be more difficult/different.
But it can occur if/when he reaches his BOTTOM. You know the deal...
Sorry I haven't been around much, but end of the school year and such with all the new senior requirements. I'm still not done and students were out last Friday. Oh yes, and I'm interning for middle school summer school starting in a couple of weeks.
I had a couple of thoughts about what you posted.
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more than likely it will be YEARS before he ever does - because our M was forcing him to look at himself.
Don't ever underestimate God's ability to get ahold of someone. When He does, the change can be at lightning speed, or it can take time. What I do know is, God's timing is perfect.
Ps. 37:4-5 "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord; trust in Him and He will do this."
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The question then becomes am I willing to sacrifice my life for him until that time, or live my life. Completely let him go and see what happens in my life.
I don't think it's a question of sacrificing your life. It's more about letting go of your WH and living your life trusting in God. The sacrifice IS in letting your WH go. Think about Abraham, when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac; the son Abraham had waited for; the son that God told him would be the fulfillment of God's covenant to make Abraham's descendants a great nation.
Maybe this is your "Isaac".
God ended up providing what Abraham needed. God didn't want Abraham to take his son's life-I think God wanted to have Abraham demonstrate that he trusted God more than he was depending on the promise (his son). It became an example for all of the Jewish people of complete trust in God and God's provision.
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I love my husband beyond belief.
I think your love for your H is still in your heart so that you can pray for him without any bitterness.
That first drink may be a choice, as was the A, but to the true alcoholic/addict there is NO CHOICE after that and unless you are one, you don't understand this.
I went back in the lab to get some work done, and was thinking about this, and I totally agree.
I've said it a number of times. If I have one cigarette, I'm a smoker again. I can't even have a puff. It's that addictive, so I get it.
In terms of powerlessness, I do agree that, after you have that initial puff/drink/encounter, you are then full blown addict again.
I have lived with EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS for quite some time now. I have avoided situations that would make it EASY for me to fall back into the addiction. I choose to every day. In my case, the thing I avoid is the thought process that I diminish the smokings consequences. Instead of thinking about my lungs being all black and yucky and coughing up grey mucous, I would think about those people that smoke all their lives, never getting lung or any other cancer or emphysema. I use to try and bright side the effects of smoking, so that I could continue to do it.
Now, I focus on how icky it is. How my clothes, hair, house and car smelled of an ashtray. How my skin was looking, nails, hair. I focused on the stuff I coughed up after I quit. How gross that was. I focus on the possibility of shortening my life with each puff. As the price went up and up on cigarettes, I focused on how much money I would be throwing away.
I also think about the positives of being a non-smoker, the ease of getting up and out of the house, the lack of craving, the clean environment I offer my kid, the money I save, and the likelihood of living longer and healthier. I can walk up a flight of stairs without wheezing.
What? When we say FOG, we are referring to the ADDICTION.
What's different in your case, is that he's had OTHER ADDICTIONS..A LIFETIME OF ADDICTION...
But I think YOUR APPROACH at this point is the same.
HIS RECOVERY would be more difficult/different.
That's what I was wondering. Because he has had a lifetime of addictions would the approach be the same. What makes the difference for an alcoholic who is using alcohol/drugs and so Plan A is not recommended or with my WH who is clearly using this A. Is Plan B recommended in both cases or am I missing that point?
Very productive conversation ladies, thank you. It's good to throw these things out there, those nagging thoughts, so that I can work thru them.
I agree with Mimi, it's been examined, now let's move on. I have gained more acceptance today, of my situation, instead of fighting it, trying to wrangle it and figure it all out, so that it can fit into that nice little box I've made. The gerbil can roam free for all I care, I will not be lunging at it (that one's for you SDGuy)
Oh no, I am NOT giving up on ME. I just have a hard time loving me. But today, something clicked about my H.
There is just a peace inside of me. I hope and pray my H find the rooms of AA and begins his process of healing his life. Because in the end that's way more important than us. He is sick. He is hurting, but he doesn't know it. I can't help him, fix him or do anything but move on with life.
It's not necessarily what I want, but it's what I need to do. And G-d gives me what I need, just not what I want all the time.
I just recently read or heard someone say, maybe the answer G-d is giving me today is NO.
He sees the bigger picture. He understands what is happening. Like Mimi, Mark and JT tell me, trust and walk in FAITH. And it's all I can do.
It's the last day of school tomorrow. It's one of the funnest days of school. After the kids get on the buses, the entire staff goes out and starts blowing bubbles at them while waving them goodbye for the summer. The bus drivers honk their horn. It's really touching.
And then staff goes and has a big ole celebration lunch.
I saw my evaluation today from my boss and truly she in all rights could have really gotten me this year, she was generous and not nearly as bad as I thought. I don't know if she realizes the pressure she is putting on me, but we are going to work some stuff out. So, I'm glad about that.
And, right now, he has NO DESIRE to try to fix himself. Until he does or IF he does, he's all on his own. I can't help him, I can't do it for him, I can't make him see himself as he truly is right now. That all has to come from inside himself, and he has to be willing to surrender himself to God for the help he needs.
This is the hardest thing to learn to accept, but the absolute truth. But once you do, it's almost freeing because you get to give him over to the only person who can take care of him better than we ever could or will.
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What would you tell Queenie if you read her story???
I would tell her that she has amazing strength and faith in G-d, because I would have walked away long ago. But the deal is, like you, I know that deep down inside there is a truly good person who would absolutely be devastated at what he has done. I fight for this person. But like you and everyone else, I have to let him go and leave him alone.
One giant step was cancelling his membership to Sam's Club. Yep, that was pretty fun since I am the main person on the card.
Can I ask you one thing Bugs and maybe it really doesn't matter, but if you weren't divorced would you say this same thing?
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I'm working locking that up and away. I can't let it in my day to day life or it's going to keep me tied to him. I need to untie that knot so that I can continue on my path.
Thanks Bugs, from the start I have always admired your tenacity at building a new life. You are doing amazing. I didn't think I was capable of getting to the places that you are at, and while you are way more ahead of me, I am slowly getting to each level as G-d sees fit.
Does the boss know everything you've been dealing with?
Oh yes and she thinks I should just throw him away and be done with it. She lives in an ivory tower of a happy marriage, perfect children, and lots of money.
She and I just had this conversation a few weeks ago that she truly didn't understand that last year when I told her I was an alcoholic and my life had become unmanageable what that meant. She just saw that I didn't drink.
SHE HAD NO CLUE... or what my life had become and what I would have to walk through to just live day to day.
Well, sometimes those people who look like life is perfect are putting on a really good show. Remember that.
Heavens, no one believed what was going on when my marriage disintegrated. Funny thing is, everyone who knew both of us and then sees him thinks he did go around the bend somehow.
I have worked closely with her for a long time. She really does have a close knit family.
It defintely stunts her ability to be a people person and throw in her micro management style. Well it's just difficult under the best of circumstances.
I really like her for the most part, but I don't like that I am having to be absolutely accountable to all my work, it feels degrading and yet in truth, she is doing it to the teachers.
Wel, I did get to go to the dentist today. Boss was giving me grief about when I was to go......So, as is usual, there was no news at the dentist. Nice clean healthy teeth. Life is sweet! Son is doing a manga art camp this week. Daughter gets home tomorrow night.
Ok, the deal is......I am an ADD adult so I do sometimes forget to let the boss know until a couple of days before an appointment. I am always willing to work over to offset as much of my leave used, usually sick leave, as is possible. So, the time rescheduling takes the boss some time when he reviews my time sheet twice a month.
That being said, I keep the three ADD/ADHD people in my family medicated which means routine psychiatrist visits for 3, dentist for 3, orthodontist for 1, chiropractor or phys therapy for me, physicals, eye doctor for 3, physicals for 3, and counseling whn needed. I am due to have some lab work redone and some additional test which I haven't scheduled due to work load.
So, I am out for a couple of hours fairly often but I use very little leave considering how often someone has an appointment.
As for vacation time, well, I'm an ADD adult doing boring repetitive work and I am not as fast as some others who do repetition better than me. I will admit I'm not the fastest but I have excellent accuracy. So, my backlog of work due is often higher.
And, as a retired military man, he can't deal as well with some of this.
Hindsight is 20-20, but after discussing what we have been, did I make the mistake of Plan Aing him?
Part of me thinks yes, but for ME. I needed to show him and do ALL that I did because I had so much responsibility in the breakdown of my M.
But part of me thinks what I did for me - might not have been in the best interest of him.
Queenie, that's just it....you do it to be a better spouse - to be a better you - to know you did all you could once you realized there were big problems.
You did it to improve you.
If they don't benefit, it's ok. It helped you improve you.
Wow, Cinders with all you juggle around I have such respect and admiration for you.
The kids are gone and I'm a mess. I love this day accept when everyone is gone and it starts to get empty. But then I come to work tomorrow and I love it.
I was just catching up and wanted to reply to this question you posed.
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Can I ask you one thing Bugs and maybe it really doesn't matter, but if you weren't divorced would you say this same thing?
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I'm working locking that up and away. I can't let it in my day to day life or it's going to keep me tied to him. I need to untie that knot so that I can continue on my path.
That's a good question and one that I've sat here considering for a while. The answer is Yes, and the answer is No.
You see, I "knew" in my heart that the only way for me to survive was going to be to let him go. But before the actual D, I didn't want to and just couldn't really do it. Oh, I tried. Believe me I tried. In fact, I'm STILL trying. I'm not there yet. YET.
So, if I were still married, YES, I would be trying to keep the love locked away so that I could be on MY path. Yet, I would most likely not be nearly so far along in my efforts because there would be more of the spark of hope than there is post-D.
I hope that makes some kind of sense to you. You see, either way, Divorced or not, for my own sanity and well being, I need to lock away the love and go down my path.
Actually being Divorced, though, pushes me to accept that there really is no other choice. Well, I suppose there ARE other choices, but none of them are right for me.
When I say I'm on my own path, don't get me wrong. I'm not out here completely over Drac. I'm not emotionally finished with him. I do still love him. I do still pray every day for the A to end. I want the Ho to go far, far, away and never darken his door ever again.
Will that happen someday? I don't know. I DO know that I can't make that hope & prayer the FOCUS of my life. IF it does happen, I can see Drac & I coming back into a friendship,,,,,,,,which is where we started. I could possibly see that developing back into the love we once shared. It would mean some big changes on his part, but it's possible. ALL things are possible.
Sorry for the mini rant here, but your question really made me stop and think. I wanted to fully answer, not only for your benefit, but honestly, I needed to answer for my own benefit.
Hi Queenie just thought I'd let you know I still read your posts and am praying for you... I think you have a wonderful support team and I am learning from them as well as I read your thread. Stay strong!!
Bugsy said it all, Queenie. It's what I have been wrestling with these last few weeks. I DON'T WANT to love PWC anymore. It's been very painful, but I do. This love does not mean I would grant him access to my life without some major growing up on and changes on his part. It's there, the love, and I believe it's there to stay.
I wanted to tell you ladies and gents that I am relieved to be among people who get what I am going thru. I'm not divorced yet, but the thoughts are all the same.
I read Bugsy's post this morning, and heard myself saying the same things.
An example of locking away your love is my mom. She told me that she would always love my dad (he was an alcoholic and physically abusive). She said that they 'fell in love' and married because they truly loved one another, but the drink became his bedfellow, and she could not fight that. She said it a number of times as I was growing up. It makes complete and total sense to me now.
I'm sorta rambling; really busy at work these days, but I wanted to get these thoughts down, so I could revisit them.
My life is more of a sea of calm these days. I'm able to think so much more clearly. The unfortunate thing is that I could not find this calm when PWC was around. I'd have tiny moments of it, but that was it. I'm grateful for the peace.
The love I have now is both a FEELING and a CHOICE. The feeling part gets disturbed if I hear anything about PWC from others. The choice remains for obvious reasons. I want DS to know that I love/d his father.
This really is the toughest thing for me to figure out, how to LOCK away my love for my H, and keeping it safe so that maybe one day I will get to feel it again in its fullest beauty. I'm really not sure I know how this will happen because when I love, I love with all my heart and soul and to put it away just seems like a waste. But I keep praying to G-d to just follow in his will.
Yesterday, was a HARD day. I hit the HALT, hungry, angry, lonely and tired, but good. I went up to my bosses house for my second job and I fell apart with her H. This is what she wrote and I wanted to let you see that I am moving forward in my grief and pain.
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And I am very glad you went to a meeting. I sense that you are really grieving from the heart now and coming out of shock so that you are feeling even deeper. I am happy for you and sorry too at the same time. It’s just hard.
The topic spirituality is very much a fit – as you’re not alone – and he is with you. You are lonely for the companionship, but not ‘alone’ which is not much comfort right now. Easy to say, hard to live.
I hope you got a good nights sleep anyway. And today is a fresh day – thank God for hope.
I just want to say even though you looked really sad yesterday, and you were hurting. You looked good – I don’t think you have any idea of how good you do look now – there is a freshness and lightness about your spirit that reflects your beauty from God coming through. So you are doing really well – you just don’t feel like it.
I was so angry and wanted to scream at WH, but what good would it do, it isn't my H and he wouldn't care anyway. He is just sick and I wouldn't yell at anyone who was sick.
I was hungry because I can't buy the food that is healthy for me and so I am not eating, because my boys need it more.
Lonely, I don't even want to really go there.
Tired - the last day of school and while it's so awesome to see the kids leave, I'm going to miss them and staff. And it also means my time with my co-worker is coming to an end and that REALLY SADDENS me. She is my rock. When I started working here, she HATED me. down to the point of abuse on the job. But we slowly worked through it. She was my supervisor and then she retired and I can't tell you how much I missed her. She came back this year and now not only was she doing my old job, but I am her supervisor doing her OLD job. I am so grateful to G-d for this time with her and I am going to MISS her so much.
Yes, I was feeling sorry for myself. I want to just escape someway, somehow, but dangit, G-d keep letting me feel these feelings deep inside my soul and it hurts. I'm walking through it, there is NO OTHER way, but geez.
And so I kept praying like my boss's H said, he told me to ask G-d what my next move is and I kept asking over and over again. I collapsed last night and woke up.
And guess what... WH deposited 700.00, and my boys FINALLY said a word to each other, and then went to lunch together (and brought me back a sushi dish as a surprise), and then went on a errand for me - buying my tabs for my car, and now my OS took YS to lacrosse practice.
So, once again G-d is giving me such blessings that I need to be grateful for and just appreciate that I haven't died from this pain or drank and used. But I can tell you, I am sobbing to the depths of my soul today.
I wanted to tell you ladies and gents that I am relieved to be among people who get what I am going thru. I'm not divorced yet, but the thoughts are all the same.
This is an understatment in survival.
I feel crazy out here in my world. I feel alone. I feel like no one out here understands. MB allows me to be with you all and no be so alone. Allows me to understand that what I am feeling is NORMAL. Allows me to help someone else if G-d gives me the opportunity and allows me the opportunity to keep healing in spite of whether I thought I could or not.
{{{{{{{{SL}}}}}}}}
I'm glad the calm is here for you. Rest with it and enjoy it.
I am sorry you have hit the Halt point. It's always such a tough bump in the road when that happens.
Yet, I read in your post such GREAT things, too. Despite your incredible sadness, you are doing better at seeing and acknowledging the GOOD around you at the same time.
THAT, my friend, is great growth and progess! Very Goddess like!
Your continued faith and trust is also bringing good things to work in your life. Did you imagine in the depth of your pain last night that you would wake to having that money from WS? Nope. Yet, you had articulated your FAITH and TRUST, and yet again, He proved Himself worthy in a powerful way - both with the $$, and even better with the boys!
Take care of yourself tonight. Chill out. If you must "think" about things, think of ways that you and your co-worker can stay connected this summer. I'd bet she is wanting the same thing!
Take care of yourself tonight. Chill out. If you must "think" about things, think of ways that you and your co-worker can stay connected this summer. I'd bet she is wanting the same thing!
We do work together, not outside of work.
But she is just someone special in my heart and when she is at work, it's the safest place to be.
Who knows though. I certainly am not shutting out possibiities.
And you are right, I didn't think there would be money or the boys would be moving towards making up. That was my prayer that they begin to heal.
I'm tired for sure. Need to run a few errands, was going to try and catch a ride to a new Alanon meeting, but no luck, so will do my errands and then go home, take a nice shower and relax.
I just wanted to pop by and say that you are not alone.
It was wonderful news to read that some money was deposited for you and your children. Fantastic news!
I am enjoying the calm, to whatever extent it is extended to me. It is still dotted with thoughts of my loss, moments of grief, but it's not nearly as overwhelming as it once was. Life goes on. Thank God for that.
that is fantastic news about your kids getting on again. they may not know it now, but when they 'grow up' they will be each others closest friends. WH finally gave you some $$$, wonderful! I hope theres enuff there for you to do or get something nice just for Queenie. Your desire to put your kids first is admirable but you wont do them any good if you dont eat and take care of yourself.
Queenie, dont give up hope and faith, your my inspiration. If you can grow and become you thru this, I can only follow. {{{{{HUGS}}}}} Queenie
SL, ride the calm for as long as you can. Because it strengthens us for the storm when it hits again.
Lil, Give up FAITH? NEVER... Give up HOPE? Not possible.
I love my H. I more than anyone understands the ADDICTIVE mind. I know how it takes you down, I know how it destroys you. I know that rush from the excitement. I know the self will to do what feels good. I know what has him dead to me.
Grow and become me, you got it girl. We are in this together. I won't stop fighting for G-d and who he has designed for me. I just am letting the WH go a little more to absolutely.
I feel it inside of myself and it's sad. It has to be, but it's still sad and I am grieving the loss of who I once loved and my dream of my M that as much as I tried to deny it, was my life, was what I wanted my whole life. And it's gone.
As for buying me something, no not me. The cell phone bill, the tabs, and then the boys. Tomorrow we shall see if WH has replied to my motion. While I am not obsessed, I am a little curious if he thinks that by giving me the money, that will stop the process. We shall see won't we.
My daughter is home from Germany. Just got in tonight. She's exhausted. She had such a good time. Glad she had the chance. Glad her dad paid half of it. Well, half of the base expenses. I don't think his $50 matched my $250 for spending money. Don't know how much she spent on gifts for others here. She has a kind heart.
Her German student partner comes here in September. She asked me tonight about another girl who doesn't have a host family here. Let's see.....one German girl for 3 weeks....two German girls for 3 weeks. Does it make a big difference. So, I have to feed 4 teenagers for 3 weeks instead of 2. Hmmmm.....can I do that. I wouldn't have to entertain them during the day because they would go to school or have excursions around the city. 4 females sharing one bathroom and one boy with his own. Would this work?
I asked for 1/2 his income in spousal and maintenance support (spprox. 750.00 for each of us). Here is what he responded with..
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From the look of the pleadings, I would guess someone helped him with the documents. No attorney is listed.
He wants to pay a smidge over 1/3 in child support. A Parenting Plan that gives him every other weekend. He doesn't want to pay any maintenance. He is listing that he pays food for two people - girl friend? He doesn't list any income for her in his financial declaration, and he states that he pays $315 a month for Snap on Tools and Mastercard.
I happen to have a piece of paper that came in the mail this weekend that he isn't paying on any of his snap on. I think I'll show the lawyer.
He didn't respond to paying the legal fees or OW having NO contact with my children.
I'm sorry I don't have much that I can add to how to handle the legal stuff,,,,,I didn't have to deal with spousal support and in my state, the child support is done with a strict, set calculation. It's a form that just plugs in both parents financial data and then calculates it automatically.
I would think it matters not if he is supporting another person by choice, that is irrelevant when it comes to his responsibilities to you and the kids.
The best advice I can give is to stick to your guns and keep the demands HIGH. Let you A do their job, which is to protect YOU and your Kids!!
Also, spend time in the Word - - it is really a time to make sure you have your armor on for your own protection. The responses through the legal stuff is going to expose you to WH and it's not going to be pleasant or easy. Keep your eyes on G-d and He will see you through.
Our state has strict calculations as well. I'm not sure what that will be, but I'm sure the A and I will discuss today.
I would also agree that what he chooses to do with her is his choice and has nothing to do to his responsibilities to this family.
You say it over and over again to new people and all of you remind me as well, that this isn't my H anymore. It's a monster. I think in the end I just get caught off guard being his enemy. And it makes me wonder why can't I simply stop standing and caring for my M and trying to protect our family.
Over and over all I hear is how I could do better. I never realized that there are men that would want me, WH had me believing I would NEVER find anyone as good as him.
Last night I did the scariest thing I have done in a long time. Go to a bar when I am very low emotionally and very vulnerable to not feeling. I don't know if I ever noticed it before, but the people around me were getting particularly drunk last night and I wanted to just have one drink. I wanted to just drink into oblivion.
I'm sticking to my guns and I am keeping my demands HIGH. I'm not going to let her have anything that could be mine. I'm just not clear about what could be legally mine.
I have been talking to G-d all day yesterday and night. I came home from the bar and immediately got Torah out and started reading it. I'm scared Bugs. I'm just scared I haven't built up enough strength to walk through this without becoming bitter and calous and losing all love for my H.
I just have to keep remembering and mean it, THY WILL BE DONE.
I'm just scared I haven't built up enough strength to walk through this without becoming bitter and calous and losing all love for my H.
I hear you, Queenie.... I am hitting a rough patch myself....
...I am also experiencing some 'fear'.... and wonder what's up, too!
...I think we need to put some LIGHT on the FEAR .... focusing too much on the future? ...not giving ourselves enough credit? ...let's be VERY VERY specific about what situation we don't want to find ourselves in and what can we DO....TODAY...to prepare ourselves to NOT be in that situation...
....what's the healtiest course of action to take for you/me/BSs, given what we have on our plates, to get from a place of 'heaviness' to the 'lightness' of being?
I found this text that 'spoke' to me and want to share it with you:
Courageous is the soul who adventures into time and space to learn of their divinity... for while they cannot lose, they can think they have, and the loss will seem intolerable, and while they cannot fail, they can think they have, and the pain will seem unbearable, and while they cannot be less than they truly are, powerful, eternal and loved, they can think they are, and hope will seem lost. And therein lies their test. A test of perceptions... of what to focus on, of what to believe in... in spite of appearances. Very courageous indeed.
I've been worried about you today? How are you? I saw this earlier and have been anxious to find time to post -
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Last night I did the scariest thing I have done in a long time. Go to a bar when I am very low emotionally and very vulnerable to not feeling. I don't know if I ever noticed it before, but the people around me were getting particularly drunk last night and I wanted to just have one drink. I wanted to just drink into oblivion.
I am no expert when it comes to addictions, but when was the last time you went to a meeting? You mentioned the other day trying to find a ride to one, but it didn't work out. Have you been lately? This statement is a bit frightening.
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I'm sticking to my guns and I am keeping my demands HIGH. I'm not going to let her have anything that could be mine. I'm just not clear about what could be legally mine.
Knowing what is 'legally' yours is the responsibility of your attorney. What YOU do is ask for EVERYTHING! And I DO mean EVERYTHING. This way you start at the top and THEN, work your way down from there.
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I'm just scared I haven't built up enough strength to walk through this without becoming bitter and calous and losing all love for my H.
First, it is OK to be scared. It's good to acknowledge when we are scared, so that we can find a way to deal with it.
Second, YOU don't have to have enough strength. That is why we have G-d with us. It's our place to rely on HIM for the strength we need, and He will never fail to give it.
Third, it is HARD, HARD to find the tight rope between the fight and the love. Between what is right and what still lives in our hearts with love for the POS WS Monsters they have become.
For me, I switched back and forth so many, many, times between feeling like I was bitter & callus to still feeling the love - - I can't count the times.
It comes down to a choice. It comes down to letting G-d help us to walk the path HE has for us. Letting go and letting G-d. And that, too, will wax and wane. And that's OK. Keep on the path. Lean not on your own understanding,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Queenie, you know the NC theory? A WS shouldn't have contact with the person who has disrupted the marriage. So, it's not a good idea for you to be hanging out at the bar.
Why would you ever complain, O Jacob, or, whine, Israel, saying, "God has lost track of me. He doesn't care what happens to me"? Don't you know anything? Haven't you been listening? God doesn't come and go. God lasts. He's Creator of all you can see or imagine. He doesn't get tired out, doesn't pause to catch his breath. And he knows everything, inside and out. He energizes those who get tired, gives fresh strength to dropouts. For even young people tire and drop out, young folk in their prime stumble and fall. But those who wait upon God get fresh strength. They spread their wings and soar like eagles, They run and don't get tired, they walk and don't lag behind.
I am no expert when it comes to addictions, but when was the last time you went to a meeting? You mentioned the other day trying to find a ride to one, but it didn't work out. Have you been lately? This statement is a bit frightening.
My meetings have been more sparce because of graduation, end of school year stuff etc. I went to a meeting on Tuesday night and I went tonight to both my Alanon and AA.
The meeting I was trying to get to on Wednesday is a larger Alanon meeting. I did see my sponsor tonight, but there seemed to be bigger things going on than what I did last night, or honestly, I forgot about it.
The bar last night was a girls night out for teachers and classified. It's a dueling piano bar and normally it's not a problem. I just didn't realize how I was so low inside and struggling, and when I sat there and looked around at all the people drinking, well, it just looked so good. I got out of there quick. I can assure you, it frightened me. 21 years of sobriety, but just the notion of making the sadness go away. I just need to take extrodinary precautions right now.
So we got the response to the motion yesterday which I posted. I saw the letter today when I walked into the A office. Basically he is complaining that I am making the allegations of his neglect or substantial nonperformance of parenting functions and the absence or substantial impairment of emotional ties between the parent and child without any facts to support the allegations.
I could give a dissertation on this, but it will just get me riled up and no point. He says he will give me 899 for CS, but no money for SM because it is not possible for him to continue to pay his wife half his paycheck. He has been going into serious debt and it has created a substantial financial hardship. He complains that my financial outlook is better than his even with just child support. Oh he says again that my wife's financial circumstance is superior to his. DUH.. He doesn't get it that I could live in a totally different place, food, everything would be cheaper if I wasn't taking care of his children all by myself. But....
Of course I went south as strong as I was wanting to sound yesterday and it scared me that I am just going to lose everything. But I put together a list of questions for my A and brought them with me.
A had drawn up papers that basically say, he financial disclosure is incomplete in the sense that most of his accounting is done by cash, large amounts and their is basically no paper trail to determine that he is in fact paying bills and not partying so to speak. Therefore we continue to ask for the full amount. Oh, he said that since WH lists the girlfriend as dependent on him, he can assume that she is adding money to the household and he didn't disclose that. I don't remember the wording but it nails him.
WH is basically giving me the parenting plan I have created, the contention is he wants the part where he is neglectful etc stricken, and if it is he will agree. My A feels that I have won this point, so let's take it out. Personally I think it should stay, but compared to others, WH just comes across as a flake, not the monster in the larger societal sense.
I asked about the no contact with the OW. My A understands this is important to me, and believes that WH is agreeing to MY plan which leaves her out in the cold. I'm not so sure if you read through it the way I did, by striking the two parts, I am striking the reason why I want her or it might appear that way. So I have a call into the attorney.
In the end, I am having to pray to G-d for his will, but seriously look at what is most important. The spousal maintenance that will help me maintain this family financially or keeping my kids away from crack ho.
He has run up a credit card of almost 10,000. He isn't paying on his tool account and I believe he is struggling accept he makes these large cash withdrawals and he is just creating the same financial mess there that he did at home. Funny how I always thought it was me, and I totally had a hand in it.
I feel like my A has a good handle on getting him in court. But it's G-ds will not mine. I don't have to be there when he goes to court which is very cool. A couple of things that I have noticed and what it means, I really haven't looked at. In all my paperwork, I refer to WH as respondent. WH's paperwork refers to me as his wife or by my name, my long name which is what I asked him to call me.
The other thing, in HIS parenting plan he is asking in various situation to create opportunities where I have to interact with him. Like keeping him informed of the children's schedule, sports, etc. Of their grades, things of that nature. If it's one thing I have learned it's not my responsibility to keep him informed. That was what a wife did. I feel like he needs to figure out how to learn about his children by wow a novel approach - asking them? I feel like he's trying to draw me in to his web, not because he wants me but to keep me hanging. I'm not pulling....
you know the NC theory? A WS shouldn't have contact with the person who has disrupted the marriage. So, it's not a good idea for you to be hanging out at the bar.
It's late, but I am not getting this at all.
I guess the bottom line for me in all this is that I just didn't think about what I was doing. I was going out with a group of mostly married woman, for a girls night out and what caught me off guard was the desire to just down a few and not feel.
Glad you have been getting the support you need, and that you recognized your weakness! Outstanding!
Now, about the legal 'stuff'. First, let me say that I know how hard it all is. I know for me, it just felt so UGLY; so much so it seems impossible to have to face. I just wanted to turn away from it all because it felt so cold, so impersonal, that the person who promised to love, honor, and cherish me would turn into the cold monster that was reflected in the words on the paper.
Most of what you list in your post are 'standard' type things, such as the reference to your name or to you as "wife". Legalese is all that is.
Also, it sounds like your A is on top of things with his points about WH's transactions being all in cash and impossible to track. Remember, he is going to try to HIDE as much as he can to avoid doing what is RIGHT. Let your A keep you protected and keep digging to get to full disclosure. He ABSOLUTELY needs to list OPs income if he is intending to claim 'costs' associated with supporting her in any way - - I gotta tell you THAT part just INFURIATES me for you! Talk about an A$$!!
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He has run up a credit card of almost 10,000.
Drac did the SAME thing! Here's the deal with that. He can be asked to produce the statements from his credit card to show WHAT this was spent on,,,,,,,,,,,,,He's NOT going to want to do that. Then, he can be asked to show PROOF of how he has paid for the support of you and the kids. Can he produce much of anything there? NOPE.
So don't sweat it. It will take some game playing (again, the job of your A), so be prepared for some back & forth on that. When I went to my A with my financial information, I had copies of canceled checks and credit card statements showing EVERYTHING I'd paid for - - from thousands of dollars for Drac's cars, to house payments, ALL childcare, ALL medical bills, etc. The total was HUGE, and it was great leverage when he tried to act as though HE took care of everything in the M from the financial standpoint.
The stuff about keeping him informed - that's some standard boxes on the parenting plan as to who is responsible for what. All you need to do is to tell the A that you want it to be that you are EACH responsible for doing all of that. You are totally right in that is the job of a WIFE, and as he has chosen to change your status in his life, he no longer gets ANY of those benefits. Drac thought *I* should pretty much take care of all of that for him and it totally pi$$ed him off when I refused.
Too bad. So Sad. That's THEIR choice. No matter how many times they stand there with the fingers pointed at you saying 'YOU did this! YOU are making this HARD. YOU need to do it MY WAY and if you don't it means there is something wrong with YOU.", Don't you DARE buy into the crapola they are selling!
At this point, I don't know that it's about keeping you hanging (I went through the same thoughts about Drac during our negotiations) - but it's more about what is EASIEST for them, as well as the fact that they soooo don't want to have to "look bad" on paper. You see, deep down they know that someday their kids could read all of this stuff, and if the TRUTH is on paper, then how can they continue spinning their lies. How can they continue to Justify their A??
YOU have the Power in this my dear. Rely on G-d for the strength and He will see this through to a place that is BEST for you.
How are things down in your valley? I've been keeping up with your thread but haven't been on MB that much lately.
You got some great advice from Bugs about the financial stuff. Let your A handle the details. That's his job.
As far as keeping you informed about your YS, since he is under 18, your WH can be put on his school information and get anything that is sent to you, sent to him without you having to contact him. Since most schools do progress reporting on the computer, your WH can have the password and code for that and not even have to bother you for that information.
Your YS or his coach can send your WH any games schedules.
Beyond that, since your son is going to be a sophomore in high school, he can probably let his dad know anything else he chooses to share. They can do it by email.
Will the courts make my son see his dad if he doesn't want to?
I absolutely agree there is NO reason for WH and I to speak with each other. I won't stop him from getting the information he desires, but I certainly don't want to be the one to give it.
WH can visit the website for the game information.
Or simply he could contact his children. Wow that would be a great idea.
x and I have a history of not hearing each other. That is why I prefer to communicate w/ him by email a lot of the time. We are doing well at communicating right now but we often send emails to confirm the conversation. That is especially helpful w/ schedules and things like that.
But there have been fairly long stretches when it was best for us to use internet for info sharing.
That way, you can read their idiot stuff, get mad, write your angry reply, then edit it down to only what is needed before sending it. It was a blessing to have that option.
How are you today? I've been busy. Went shopping at a local quilt store, bought some white material to start on a quilt for one of my nephews. Then went to Walmart for bark. The bark is for the house that is having the graduation party for our son's next week. Then went to Office Depot for the tri-fold boards.
Can you believe the latest craze is to put together a wall board of my son. I am wondering if I should use pictures of WH. But then if I am learning new ways to live, I need to not control this, and just ask son what he wants. After all it's his board, not mine.
Put out the most embarassing baby picture and senior picture. Tell him those are the only two you will choose. The rest are up to him. Tell him that his choices are: 1) pick out the photos OR 2) you will put only those two on it.
I have more free time now that school is out. YS is at camp until July 12, and summer school interning begins in another week-so my time is fairly open-expect my yard needs some attention. Send me an email when you have time and we can meet in the middle.
I can tell you that my A wrote in our separation papers the the "minor child" and his dad would have time together as the "minor child" and his dad agreed. In our state, a 15-year-old has a bit more say in these matters than a younger kid might.
For whatever reason, WH is being more assertive about his rights as a parent these days and wants guaranteed time. If it's occured to WH to ask the son, I am not aware of it, but then again, its not my concern.
I'll ask my A how to handle this.
I don't want to be in the middle, but I do want to protect my children from crack ho.
Yes, we have to get together soon and catch up. I have really missed you.
Queenie, back to the board....will the world end if you don't do the board?
If you're stressing too hard over it, take the board back and take a couple of photo albums (if your pictures are in them). Sometimes, I have to look at some jobs and take them off the 'to do' list if I'm simply not able to get everything done.
Sometimes, I have to look at some jobs and take them off the 'to do' list if I'm simply not able to get everything done
Learning to choose between how we might 'want' to do something vs what makes sense to what we can reasonably accomplish can be difficult. I know it's hard for me, but I'm getting better at it and it's paying off.
I've let go of feeling 'guilty' when I don't get things like this done the way I think that I 'should'. I realized that the 'should' was merely inside ME and that it is Ok to cut myself some slack. It's greatly improved the amount of peace in my life.
It was late and my sense of humor wasn't coming through, unfortunately.
You know, I don't know what I feel about the board. It's important to me for sure, but I'm not sure why so I need to look at that and just let it go and accept what it looks like. I feel the need to give my son something special that he will have and understand how much he was loved.
Remember this is the one who WH has pretty much abandoned, but this is also the one who is the most gentle, sensitive and loving.
Ah, I'm trying to fix it for him - I can't can I. It just makes me angry.
As for this week - I am swamped at work digging out of all the year end stuff from school. We have our huge shipment for teacher supplies coming in. Tomorrow night I am attending a brand new AA meeting in Seattle at Jewish Family Services. I am going to be the speaker person in two weeks.
I'm still in the process of getting ready for the party, need to order the cake today. On Wednesday and Thursday I am going over to their house and help really clean the house for Saturday and then Friday I am having an alanon meeting at my house because our normal venue is not available. So tonight, I need to find a way to deep clean the apt and hope it can stay clean.
This is one of the busiest weeks I have had in a LONG time. I'm a little concerned I won't make a meeting until Saturday morning, but I will check in with my sponsor more.
I haven't posted to you in so long. Sorry bout that. I see that you have been doing so WELL and are still so STRONG. Girl, I am so proud of you. You are handling things so remarkably well. I see many changes in you over these last few weeks. Don't believe me?/? Go back and read over your own stuff (I did that a little while back....On one hand it was good to see where I had come from just from New Years which was so amazing and good, on the other it was bad, because it did send me to that awful time and knowing what I KNOW now....well, it did kind help feed that little thing we like to call RESENTMENT....that was not good...)
Anyway, glad to hear you got a busy week ahead. While you will fret and worry about how to get it all done, you know you will and your sense of accomplishment afterward will be immeasurable.....
Queenie - get son to help you w/ the board. You know, it might mean more to him for you to sit down and look at the pictures with him. Sometimes, we mom's just try to do it all and we CAN'T!!!
Yeah....it's his accomplishment you are celebrating. Let him choose the important ones. And, if he doesn't do it, he doesn't do it. Do you think his emotional development will be stunted if he doesn't do it? Nah, he'll be ok. Let it be his choice.
Now, if he was good at that sort of stuff and you had digital pictures or a scanner to scan traditional prints, you could let him do a powerpoint or something and put it on a dvd to run on a television.
As in the words of my children - you're killing me smalls.
Could you clarify?
Queenie, if you apartment is not ready to be photographed by Architectural Digest, the world won't end. Think about those first few steps. We have to accept the fact that we aren't super-human and we can't be all things and do all things. Do what you can. Tell them you have surrendered control of the situation and greet them genuinely. They'll be able to cope. They can't control everything, either.
Originally Posted By: QueeniesNewLifeAs in the words of my children - you're killing me smalls.
Could you clarify?
I have no idea what it means, they just keep telling it to me all the time lately when I ask them to do something they aren't sure of, but know they have too.
Trust me, domestic goddess in NOT one of my strong suits. I wasn't planning on deep cleaning, just dusting, vacuuming, wiping down the cabinets. Nothing special, but presentable.
I use to stress, now I do it because I want to. Way different. And what doesn't get down, will be just fine with me.
Wow!!! Thanks. No woman ever heard that enough. Especially a betrayed woman. I often think one of my issues is not feeling that enough people get me. KWIM?
Queenie, I like you, too. That's why I shoot so straight with you. I have been where you are. I survived. I have thrived. And you will, too!!!
Cinders, isn't it amazing how we come here completely broken human beings and together we help each other build lives back and move forward. We touch each other's lives because we understand what others who have never experienced this don't. And yet, we somehow dig through the mud and dirt to find our ways.
Sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly. But it will always materialize if you work for it.
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Queenie, I like you, too. That's why I shoot so straight with you. I have been where you are. I survived. I have thrived. And you will, too!!!
Please don't ever stop. You and so many others are my reality check in a life that doesn't have it down so well right now.
More importantly how are YOU? How is your recovery coming?
I am doing ok. I continue to move forward seeking G-d for his guidance and taking care of what I can.
I seem to be waiting out what happens in court pretty good. It's on Wednesday so maybe things will change by then.
Ok, my ego needs it, what changes have you seen?
I miss you, sent you an email. I hope you are doing ok and knowing that I am thinking about you.
I am doing good......Did you mean my recovery from surgery or the marriage????....
In any case, both are going well. Physically, I am doing well. As of thurs. this week, I will be off restrictions and I can start resuming life as I like it....
Marriage wise, it is going well. Maybe not as fast as I want, but that is not part of the program. I am an impatient person though......
ok, enough about me, lets talk about you.....
First off, your posts have taken a different turn. You are not posting about your WS as much. Now, I know he is still in the for-front of your mind, BUT you are really doing a great job of plunging forward with YOUR life. That is good.....
Second, you are moving forward with your life. This is EXTREMELY evident in your post. This too is good. Good for you and your children.
Third, you are finally letting go of YOUR need to control what goes on in WS life, and letting him suffer the consequences in his life. This is really good, because even if he DOES return home one day, you will find that you cannot control him, only he can control himself.....
Last, but definately not least, you seem to be really letting G-d take control of your life.
anyway, I hope that boosts you up honey....though I have to say, from where I am sitting, your self-confidence is shining away....
It's a good thing, in these cases of recovery, to become more self-focused. The person in your mirror is the only person you can improve. Sometimes, when you work on yourself, things begin to come together better for you.
Here's the verse of the week: MIC 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
Not that I'll give out one every week. This just came to mind. You know, it's sort of what I've been saying....make the next right choice, do what you can and don't stress too much, keep your eyes on G-d who will always be there even if you don't see him.
Whatever good growth there is, is because of G-ds graciousness and love for me. There is a friend of mine whose dad is dying. She and I were talking and crying together. She knows that I lost both of my parents many years ago. She was asking me about the pain her dad is suffering, about the emotional path she is on. I told her that at the time my parents died I didn't think there was anything sadder. I WAS SO WRONG.
Losing my life with my H, my M, and all that was a part of that was beyond anything I could have imagined feeling. I told her she had been through divorces and she would get through this. My suggestion and this is where I just sobbed, was to seek G-d and hold on for dear life.
Because humans will fail us, but not G-d and he was right there waiting for you to let him come and walk you through this. I know that if I didn't have my relationship with G-d I would be dead. It's the most important thing that is nurtured everyday because I want to.
I seek to please him because in the end, he is the one who will bless me and that new life I am building, in spite of all the road blocks I have and probably will put up.
I love when you give me scripture Cinders, it make me take it into my heart and seek G-d and his purpose for me at that moment or the moment when I am most struggling.
You know I don't think it has really much to do with that. Oh sure I'm a little nervous, but I truly understand this is in G-ds hands. I am not going to court so I won't see WH. And my A will let me know what happens. Now maybe if I was having to face him it would be a different story.
I'm moving on and building a life and I am truly starting to see it without my husband. It's not something I ever wanted, but I didn't think I would have survived it this far.
Like Mimi has told me I have to think of him as dead. My H is dead, what's left is a monster that I can't stand and I just have to accept and find a new life for me and the children.
I could use the prayers that the commisioner or judges sees fit to give me at least 400.00. that way I can pay for my car payment and just buckle my straps more.
Queenie - I think you ought to go to court. He will have to behave there - unless he is an idiot which he is, as we all know. You will have to see him at some point. I would go under this controlled situation.
It won't be easy but, if a question comes up, your attorney will have you there to get your input.
My A told me that I didn't need to be there. I could email him again and ask him, but crap, the thought of seeing him after all this time, just did flips in my stomach.
I don't want to break my Plan B. I'm doing so good and that would nearly destroy me. I don't know if I can do that.
Just because you go, doesn't mean you have to talk w/him. Someone, a couple of months ago, had a thread about how to act toward wh at court. Don't remember who....don't remember when.
I was always told that, if there was any hearing, you were better off to be there unnecessarily than to be absent when needed.
However, I do give you the choice. Just telling you what I was told was the common wisdom in my city.
I'm scared I'll cave under the pressure of losing completely.
I'm afraid that she and he will walk out of their laughing and smug that they won everything and are in love and happy.
While I am alone and left.
I have worked so hard to build this wall of protection around myself and to face him, I simply didn't think I needed to do that. My A said it was not necessary.
What could be worse than what I have survived? Is collapsing because all those desparate, anniliated feelings will come back and I will absolutely fall apart.
From my experience, you have been through the worst. You have gained so much strength.
Do what you need go do but, someday, you will have to face him. This would be an opportunity to do so with an advocate (your attorney). You could simply turn and refuse to look at him or speak to him.
Someday yes, I might have to face him. But I'm not strong enough. I'm just getting him out of my soul, out of my head, I'm at peace with what happens because I trust G-d to take care of me.
To face him would bring up all those feelings.
Not yet, please not yet. I'm not strong, to have him so close, and not talk to him and have him walk away arm and arm with her would just destroy me. Honestly, the money doesn't seem that important. I'd sell my car or my body - not really. I
If we ever end up divorced I really don't ever see a reason where I would need to face him again. Our children are grown. I am building a life away from him. My Plan B was forever or at least until I no longer loved him.
If I lose bad, then I will go after him more readily in terms of a legal battle and then I will face him, but that will give me more time and growth and strength.
I'm sorry to let you down Cinder, if you could see me right now, I am shaking, barely breathing and fall apart just thinking I might have to.
I think it's perfectly OK for you not to be there if your A says it's not necessary. (no disrespect, Cinders). I only went when my A said it was necessary.
I think you are right in your view that it sends the message that this is HIS mess to deal with. YOU are the Confident Goddess who need not bother yourself with such petty matters as a silly POWS!!
Come on - Mimi's not here, so I'll remind you again, CHIN UP & CHEST OUT!!
I don't mean to seem to disagree with everyone, but I would disagree with your assessment that you are not strong enough to face WH. You are MORE than strong enough - - it's just that you don't believe it,,,,,,,,,,,,YET. You will.
The time will come, and you will know that the time is right. You will do it in FULL Goddess Mode and come out the other side wondering "Why didn't I do this sooner? It wasn't nearly as bad as I imagined". When this will be is is for YOU to decide, no one else.
It may be final day in court, it may not. Just know that you have it in you to handle it when the day arrives.
OOPS! Yeah, I made a boo-boo and I fixed it. Thanks, Mimi!
Queenie.....that's cool. I won't say anything else but I really respect you and you have grown so much since the first of the year. You are terrific. Go get a pedicure instead! Or, give yourself one and save the money. Pretty toenails are a good thing.
A few hours away, some prayer time with G-d, a brand new AA meeting in Seattle with other Jews and I am doing ok.
I stopped at the hospital on my way to the meeting and visited my friend. As it turns out there were just men in the room and I started to cry. They were talking about how I needed to stand up for myself and stick it to WH. They think taht by me not showing up is giving the wrong message.
I really listened to what you said Cinder, and these guys convinced me I am strong enough to face him or at least be in court. I really put this in G-ds hands, glad I had a drive to think through. So much going through my head and yet there was this unbelievable calm inside of me.
I'm fighting for my M, I'm fighting for my survival and it happens to be on the other end of what my WH is fighting for.
And then I remembered the time I walked onto that lacrosse field and showed both of them I was confident, strong and the WIFE. So, I called up a friend to take me. I picked out a black dress to wear and am ready to go.
But this isn't just about me, but what's best while I am in Plan B. So, now, knowing that I can make it through court tomorrow, what is best for Plan B and the fact that my financial security is on this.
Personally, I wouldn't go, and especially not if your attorney says there is no need. I was READY to divorce and I still broke down in the attorney's office. Just the whole end of a dream thing..........
Do not go. You've done a wonderful Plan B so far, don't break it for a routine court hearing. I say routine because if it weren't, your presence would be required by the Court.
Can you help me understand your reasoning so I keep it in Plan B perspective and not because I am trying to manipulate the situation to win him back.
Look, I didn't go to court when WW's atty contested the our petition for a custody eval.
It's was truly a little thing.. a motion hearing.. it's stuff for lawyers and a judge to jaw about, and my input wasn't needed.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.. in my case at least.
Add to that the fact that I probably would have been triggered on some level for weeks afterwards apart from having the fleeting 'gee.. wonder why she'd contest that?' round that lasted for maybe a day or three.
It was healther for me.
AND... I'm not taking any part in advancing/furthering a D.. it's not what I wanted, and not what I want.. even though I'm starting to come to the realization that it may be for the best.. in my case. You're the only one who can decide that for yourself... and I don't think you've decided in favor of it.. so why go to the 'divorce game' and show your support for either team?
The ONLY reason I am entertaining going is because of what I will look like if I don't go. Will it appear to the judge a bad thing.
Will there be any testimony? Is this a hearing? Is your attorney going to appear before the Judge to make a motion? But listen to your attorney, if he says your appearance isn't required, then it isn't and the Judge won't hold it against you.
This is an appearance by my attorney to make the motion for spousal support. WH refuses to pay it on the grounds that he doesn't have enough money and thus paying me will cause him more financial hardship.
It's a commissioner and not judge I think. He will hear from both sides and more than likely make his ruling today.
A didn't feel it was necessary, but he was responding to me asking to not be there. What I am struggling with is, if not being there will ultimately hurt my case financially what is in MY best interest?
The only reason I could see the judge or commissioner holding it against you (not really you, but your attorney for telling you it's okay not to come) is if he decides he wants to hear testimony from either party. With you not being there, he could either continue the hearing for another day when you appear, or he could consider the motion with only the testimony of your H.
Ask your attorney if he thinks this might happen. He knows the courts where you are better than I do. I'm only basing this on what happens in Texas courts.
...but if your A thinks it's a routine procedure and your input is not needed in any way and your absence will not work against you....I would stay DARK!
....ANY contact with a WS (even not seeing him but knowing he is in the next room!)...there is an emotional and psychological price to pay.... so if in doubt...PROTECT YOURSELF!
... remember, TIME alone does not change a WS...and until such time as WS communicates his intention to want to consider BS's feelings and needs AND his actions COINCIDE...(ie ...at the very least, N/C with OP)...no ifs or buts... stay DARK and ENJOY life as best as you can... no good can come out of ANY contact with a WS... (not even thoughts/discussions about WS!)...
...healthier choices for Queenie? ...staying away from bars.... AND WS!
I don't know. Motion hearings usually aren't a big deal.
Your guy is going to make a motion. His guy is going to object.. his guy will say why, and the judge will make his decision.
I doubt you or WH will end up testifying to anything.
And honestly.. if I was your atty and anyone questioned why you weren't there.. I'd tell em that someone has to work to feed those kids and put a roof over their heads.
And honestly.. if I was your atty and anyone questioned why you weren't there.. I'd tell em that someone has to work to feed those kids and put a roof over their heads.
Well my A just called and he actually feels that it's best if I be there as a visual. I won't need to say anything and I won't need to face or talk to WH.
I'm ok. I'm fighting for my survival, both emotionally and financially.
I just called my sponsor and she is going to be there with me and keep me focused on being there and getting out.
I can do this and just have to put everything in G-ds hands.
Ok, let me ask one more way because Luna you got me to thinking.
The reason that I stay dark is to protect me. Is me going or not going because it's what is best for me emotionally?
Or is staying dark because I want it to have an effect on my WH that I am not meeting any of his needs.
I don't know if I said that right or not.
Ok Queenie, you know the answers to these.
Say I came up to you.. and asked you what Plan B was all about, what would YOU tell me?
As for why YOU are in a Plan B, only you can answer that question.. and you have answered that question many times if you go back and read your thread.
Are you doing it for your sanity, or are you trying to manipulate your WH? It doesn't work both ways.. and if you're honestly trying one of these things you're not really in Plan B... IMHO.
You know better than to try to control what isn't yours to control.
If you're really this concerned, ask your atty one more time if he thinks you are risking anything not being there.. stress to him how important this is to you and see how he feels about it. Do what your lawyer tells you to do.. they're the experts on how to get divorced, and hopefully he's an expert on how not to get his clients screwed.
Sending prayers your way....and hey, I am there too....you could do what TMTS did when he meet for mediation....Draw me and Mimi on some paper to keep us there in your eyes....Put us in some boxing gloves, but with some SUPER cute boxing clothes. Oh, us in some cute shoes, not the ugly boxing one....I prefer heels...
You can do this. I know it is hard. That you are going does not mean you are promoting the dissolution of your marriage. It means you have positive chutzpah to stand up for yourself and your children - that you are NOT gonna stand by and let him run over you.
In the matter of child support - he will pay 744 for both children. In the matter of spousal support - I GOT IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 750.00
Basically he told the judge he couldn't afford to give his wife spousal support because his girlfriend lives with him and she only brings in 145.00 in food stamps.
After hagling about the money, on which WH said he didn't ever get overtime, yet clearly his paystubs reflect that he does, and him arguing that he has to pay for his comcast bundle etc, he can't afford to give me spousal support.
The judge took in the parenting plan, unfortunately I can't stop OW from having contact with my son, but I knew I was going to lose on that and so it didn't matter. But then she said, you need to get your girlfriend to contribute 750.00 to your household. And then she turned to my A and said, I am awarding the wife of 24 years 750.00 in spousal support.
WH wanted the money taken out in two lumps sums, my lawyer said no and it would be do on the 1st. He was filing the papers for the state of Washington to garner his wages.
It was the most exhilarating thing I have ever done when he walked out of there. I didn't look at him but a brief second and that was totally by accident. At one point he kept walking around me and I left the area, he walked right by me and I didn't even know it. I was calm, GODDESS, and full of grace and dignity.
He is going to be hurting for money, I can promise you that, but whether it's as bad as he says, I have no clue. I do know that I am free of his power. I cried for a moment, but my sponsor told me to knock it off. LOL
Truly, his power over me is gone. What's left is a tiny/intense package of love for my H that is protected by G-d. I love who he was and what we could have one day if he ever understood how much I truly love him. But he can't and now he is free. He can't control my money and I can stay absolutely dark and never see him again as long as this monster lives.
What happened in court today, oh g-d was YOU with me. It was G-d blessing me because I kept it in G-d world and kept the focus on what was right. Oh good ness, now I am falling apart for how much I appreciate you all.
I just didn't imagine G-d would bless me like this. I just didn't think I deserved it for all the hurts I caused WH. But now he has his reality and he can stay in it.
Oh he didn't ask my A when he could start seeing his son, no he wanted to know about the taxes. I told my A I have filed an extension for me and that didn't include him because he neglected to get me the stuff after I asked three times.
WH gave A a plastic bag with two pictures. One of a baseball player that I had a crush on and one of an old football player. I could ask why he would do that, but it doesn't matter in the scheme of things.
In the matter of child support - he will pay 744 for both children. In the matter of spousal support - I GOT IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 750.00
WOW!! THIS IS WONDERFUL!!
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Basically he told the judge he couldn't afford to give his wife spousal support because his girlfriend lives with him and she only brings in 145.00 in food stamps.
LOL..He's gone NUTS!!
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But then she said, you need to get your girlfriend to contribute 750.00 to your household. And then she turned to my A and said, I am awarding the wife of 24 years 750.00 in spousal support.
LOVE IT! LOVE IT!! "LET'S HEAR IN FOR THE SPOUSES"..WHOO..HOO...
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I was calm, GODDESS, and full of grace and dignity.
I FELT YOUR PRESENCE ALL THE WAY OVER HERE, MY QUEEN!!
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I do know that I am free of his power. I cried for a moment, but my sponsor told me to knock it off. LOL
LOVE IT!! LOVE IT!!
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I just didn't imagine G-d would bless me like this.
I wanted you to see the victory not hear about it over the phone. Young lady, what you did today will be worth all the worry about it - for what it will do for your personal vision of your goddess-self.
I was pretty smiles inside when she told him to get his girlfriend to contribute not just any amount of money to the household, but 750.00 specifically. It was hard not to smile at that point.
For what it's worth, I am still in Plan B and want my M.
I'm not "high" anymore. It so sad, really that a man who once had morals and values walked into court truly believing in his truth of what he said.
James,
I know that I did Plan B to protect myself. The fruits of what happened today are evident it is working. But I would be lying if I said, that I don't wish every night when I say my prayers, that G-d will bring my H back home one day.
Can that relationship make it with all the financial trouble? Well, it's not my deal and not my journey. I just hurt for what's happened.
I pray to G-d one day my H understands how much I love him.
I prayed for you throughout the day, that God would give you the blessing you needed.
And He blessed you in so many ways.
And then there was this...
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But then she said, you need to get your girlfriend to contribute 750.00 to your household. And then she turned to my A and said, I am awarding the wife of 24 years 750.00 in spousal support.
I am in awe or touched beyond words to all of you who prayed for me today. This was a victory today for G-d. In fact, my sponsor told me to pray for the judge that she be fair and a godly woman. Fair she was. I really would have loved to know what she was thinking. It had to have been hard to keep a straight face.
You know if it wasnt' so sad because it's my life it would be funny.
But nonetheless..... I hope he has a good evening. I am able to rest easier tonight and that's a blessing for me.
I've been praying for you today Queenie and had complete confidence in the outcome-and in you.
I shared with DD26 what your WH told the judge and what the judge said in response. She made the comment that if the OW is now living in a household with someone who makes over the limit for food stamps, etc. then, POOF!!! away go the food stamps.
I wonder if your WH realized that his comment:
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Basically he told the judge he couldn't afford to give his wife spousal support because his girlfriend lives with him and she only brings in 145.00 in food stamps.
But then she said, you need to get your girlfriend to contribute 750.00 to your household. And then she turned to my A and said, I am awarding the wife of 24 years 750.00 in spousal support.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{QUEENIE}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
INS'T G-D AWESOME???????
I loved every moment of your post. It was so good to see YOU do so well and finally be rewarded the justice and peace YOU deserve.....
And of course, we knew the GODDESS in you would shine. Heck, I think I saw the beam you were casting off here in the mid-west...
Heck, you even brought TMTS out of RECOVERYVILLE for ya...
Anywho honey, I am so proud of you....YOU THE GODDESS....
Yay Queenie!!!! this is so awesome and wondeul to hear. And the judge said about you being his wife for 24 years! Really excellent she apprieciated that commitment. You were an excellent Godess. {{{HUGS}}} Have a really awesome day...and get something nice just for Queenie ok? Even if its just a little thing.
I have to be honest, I didn't do anything. I was there, I stood up before the judge and court and stood there as he spoke about his girlfriend. I just stared ahead and prayed to G-d to have me be who he wanted.
And I was taught that here. I never imagine this day would happen where I could walk into a courtroom with him, the monster and be calm, almost peaceful with still love in my heart, and actually not need to do anything but deal with the matter at hand and get him away from me.
It was interesting how when I first got to the parking lot and saw his truck there was such a deep yuk (the oh so familiar feeling), and my sponsor calmed me down. We sat in the car for a few minutes and then she saw him walk by the car, look at me, and then he came back and left, so we got out. As we were walking he turned around and I quickly looked away. He headed back to the car and then followed us up to the court. I actually ran up the stairs and I was ok. I have to say it was like G-d wrapped his arms around and told me I just needed to go through this. I watched it just play out and left it all in my A and G-ds hands.
For those of you who are new, I NEVER EVER thought there would be this day when truly I could walk away and be not only ok, but victorious because it was G-ds blessings. I have walked through every horrible, imaginable feeling and today G-d gave me his grace and peace of mind to just keep building a life for me and my boys.
I remember how you all told me it would happen, I wanted to believe you, but I absolutely couldn't imagine it. I'm sorry to repeat this, he didn't affect me. His power is gone. I am free and so is he. May G-d bless him and keep him safe because he is sick and just not the man I married.
I started the day in my new life, taking a nice beautiful walk with my sponsor, and I ended it today, getting a ride to my AA meeting and walking home, take care of my body.
I am overwhelmed with gratitude and emotion for how today turned out and I pray to G-d that I have been grateful enough and humble enough to deserve the blessings he has given me and to not misuse what he has done.
and, when you need G-d's help, here is something from the man from Nazareth:
Matthew 7:7 & 8 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Cinder, I will work on those all summer long to not ever forget them.
Mark, you can teach me to serve the Lord when I forget this special day. Because he made it possible and I need to glorify him forever and ever.
She was a good judge. Fair on both sides. I didn't get everything, but i did get peace of mind for my children. I got what G-d needed me to have. And now I need to remember that and learn to trust in it all times.
I know that I did Plan B to protect myself. The fruits of what happened today are evident it is working. But I would be lying if I said, that I don't wish every night when I say my prayers, that G-d will bring my H back home one day.
Can that relationship make it with all the financial trouble? Well, it's not my deal and not my journey. I just hurt for what's happened.
I pray to G-d one day my H understands how much I love him.
I'm right there with you Queenie.
I'm also very proud of the way you handled yourself today. I only hope that in the coming mediation with WW I can hold the same poise, and be strong in the knowledge that God and everyone here has my back.
You're doing it the right way Queenie, don't doubt that for a second. Your WH is a fool to think he's better off anywhere but with someone who loves him even half as much as you.
I've been praying for you today Queenie and had complete confidence in the outcome-and in you.
I shared with DD26 what your WH told the judge and what the judge said in response. She made the comment that if the OW is now living in a household with someone who makes over the limit for food stamps, etc. then, POOF!!! away go the food stamps.
I wonder if your WH realized that his comment:
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Basically he told the judge he couldn't afford to give his wife spousal support because his girlfriend lives with him and she only brings in 145.00 in food stamps.
is now public record.
Silly waywards.
Exactly! That was what I was thinking too. Food stamps go to the "household" and if ANYONE living in the household is earning money, it is used in consideration of whether food stamps are awarded.
The Ho is basically committing foodstamp fraud and now WH has outed her on public record. Who knows, maybe the judge picked up on that and will do something about this herself.
I'm sorry I missed out on the last couple of days (I was on the road), but I have been reading to keep up.
I was definately doing the Happy Dance for you!!! And let me tell you, it was a great one because all of those folks in Arknasas thought I was straight out of the mental institution! ha!
Outstanding results from court. And the way that you conducted yourself,,,,,,,,,,,MAH-Ve-LOUS!! A True Goddess if there ever was one.
Oh, , , , and the feeling of Empowerment you felt?? WONDERFUL! WONDERFUL! WONDERFUL! No amount of $$ can buy that feeling for you, can it? Facing him with your superior Goddess Powers and coming away feeling Stronger than ever -- PRICELESS!!
I have no doubt that you relationship with the Lord is such that you won't need that reminding to continually trust and praise Him. You are indeed a True Goddess and a Woman of Faith!
Again, I'm so happy for you, proud of you, and amazed by you!!
Now, Queenie, do you see how emotional you are making Mark. ZOIKS! YOu may want to post soon, or he may actually back up that sentence about coming to the PNW.
Hope you are well. Drop us a line when you have a free moment.
A victory indeed. But like everyone said, the judge just gave me what is legally right. Nothing more, nothing less.
This girl has been struggling terrible. All it really was for me is a hollow victory, when you look at the person who showed up in court and faced that judge. A man who has no idea what he is doing, but is just a shell of a person that I loved with every fiber in my body and for the life of me can't stop loving - no matter how much of a monster he has become.
I remember everything you all taught me, told me and worked through with me, but the plain fact is I am hurting inside and I am just working through this sadness and pain because I know enough now it will end.
Why did G-d make me this person who cares and loves so deeply? What purpose is it to keep hurting to a pain that just threatens to crush my spirit. I know Mimi, just have FAITH in G-d, no matter what. And I do, but the feelings are there and I have to just accept them for today.
As stupid as it sounds, I just have been with G-d. No place special. Taking care of the kids, cleaning my apt, attending mtgs, graduation party. But on my knees alot of the times just praying for the next indicated step. I feel like I am in a tunnel that is closing in on me and I just am keeping it simple to survive.
Loving him like that a bad thing? Or the way I love being a bad thing, no, it's not. But it is painful. I feel like an outsider in this world right now. Do you know what I mean. Except for here, there is no one in my life who can possibly grasp how I can still love the man I m. Or even entertain that I would want him back.
I don't know what my purpose is. What this pain that exists so deeply inside of me will serve G-d. And I'm looking to him for guidance because clearly he needs something from me.
I just am trying to be a servant and be still so I can learn what I have to learn.
Except for here, there is no one in my life who can possibly grasp how I can still love the man I m. Or even entertain that I would want him back.
The way I look at this is that one goal for you is to work on is establishing relationships with like-minded people OR people who can accept YOU for who you are.
It makes a world of difference to commune with folks who LOVE and ACCEPT you.
But FIRST, you've got to LOVE yourself. That's what keeps tripping you up...
YOU are YOU..there's no need for you to be any DIFFERENT in order to PLEASE OTHERS...
I understand what you are going through because I've come to terms with being UNIQUE. Maybe I'm not all that UNIQUE and maybe you aren't either. Maybe we were so rejected and hurt as children that there's a piece that we've been missing about knowing how to LOVE OURSELVES..
I understand what you are going through because I've come to terms with being UNIQUE. Maybe I'm not all that UNIQUE and maybe you aren't either. Maybe we were so rejected and hurt as children that there's a piece that we've been missing about knowing how to LOVE OURSELVES..
Im calm, very sad, but accepting and understanding this is EXACTLY where G-d needs me to be.
You are right G-d is the ONLY ONE who will ALWAYS be there. I'm not trying to hurry up and get rid of these feelings, but just keep asking G-d what he WANTS me to do next.
I'm sorry for your acquaintance who is walking through this time of pain.
I will add them to my prayers and hope that the protection and blanket of love from G-d is felt by both of them and that whatever happens they will understand and come to rely upon G-d to help them through this.
{{{{{Queenie}}}}} How are you? I missed you! Queenie, you continue loving him bcos it is unconditional love, that is not based on wanting something in return ie the selfish kind and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you remember that you are special too. God has given you the strength to keep on loving despite the pain it brings and that makes you special, and God must love you a lot to give you that strength.
I've read all of the posts, but I wanted to reply to this one in particular -
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I don't know what my purpose is. What this pain that exists so deeply inside of me will serve G-d. And I'm looking to him for guidance because clearly he needs something from me.
I just am trying to be a servant and be still so I can learn what I have to learn.
The sermon today at church was about What to Do, When you Don't Know What to Do. I think you, and many of us here, feel that way often,,,,,,trying to figure out our path.
It gave me great comfort to hear that the 'instructions' were pretty much what you & I and a whole lot of other folks are doing.
#1. Pray - always and unceasingly ( seek Him & His will constantly)
#2. Be Patient (He is always on Time)
#3. Be Positive (Trust in Him. Don't deny your circumstances, but trust that HE has a plan to work it to our good)
#4. Be ProActive (Don't let the unknown in 1 part of your life paralyze your ENTIRE life. Keep up with all other aspects of your live and leave this one thing to Him)
While we are praying, trusting, and being positive, if we carry on with the other aspects of our life, the answers will come. Getting snared up in the questions doesn't free us to do what we need to do. Carry on, knowing that the answer will come.
I know that IRL folks look at us like we are totally NUTS when we say anything about still having any spec of love for our WH. That's ok. I know what I know. I accept what I know. It works for me. Most people around me accept that. If they don't, I don't spend much, if any, time with them OR it's just not something we discuss at all.
It is hard after seeing the WH to not think about still loving them. What I do is mentally picture a beautiful, mahogony trunk. It's like a huge, old fashioned steamer trunk. The kind with brass straps and a huge key lock on the front. I picture putting the love I have for Drac inside that trunk and locking it up tight. I then keep the key on a golden chain around my neck. It is nice and long so that I can tuck it inside where no one can see it, but I know it's there.
This is how I handle accepting the love that I have for him. It's locked away. The horrible monster he is can't touch it. He doesn't know where the key is and he never will. If someday the man I love shows up, I'll have the key. If he doesn't, then one day I will likely take the chain off my neck and put it away, too.
Time will tell.
What I'm trying to say is that instead of beating yourself up for the love you feel, protect it. Put it away into a safe place so that you can carry on with the rest of your life. It doesn't mean you STOP loving him, but merely that you put space between your day to day life and that love.
I understand. I do and will keep on doing what I am doing.
There has been a little activity that my DD brought to my attention. I actually am not reacting to WH's drama as much anymore.
Evidently WH is trying to get ahold of my cousin who is the executor of my trust fund. I have no access to that money until I retire and actually don't get money from it. I think I am finding he is desperate more and more.
He did contact YS by email to invite him to come visit him. The first time he said it would be nice and then told YS that he would have to be respectful to OW. When YS made a comment, WH invited him again saying it's been awhile and he would like both of the boys to come. But then again he reemphasized the boys would need to be respectful of OW.
My boys learned how to be disrespectful to me from their father. I find it ironic that they are supposed to go to their trailer and treat her with more respect than they treat me at times or WH is going to get on their case.
One thing is apparent, financially he is in trouble. My money is due tomorrow and so it will be interesting to see how that happens.
It's actually a little too hot for me. I am still at work waiting for my boys to come pick me up. They made a stop at the reservation to get fireworks for Friday.
I found something interesting where you posted and want to call and talk to you about it. Are you around today?
Cool - and, while you're at it, pray I get in and out of emissions testing really fast at 7 a.m. in the morning and that I get out of tag renewal really fast midday tomorrow. My tags expired at midnight last night. YUCK!!! Nearly $100 down the tube.
Evidently WH is trying to get ahold of my cousin who is the executor of my trust fund. I have no access to that money until I retire and actually don't get money from it. I think I am finding he is desperate more and more
What???? You gotta be kidding me?
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But then again he reemphasized the boys would need to be respectful of OW.
My boys learned how to be disrespectful to me from their father. I find it ironic that they are supposed to go to their trailer and treat her with more respect than they treat me at times or WH is going to get on their case.
WTF?? Excuse my french! And your boys said,,,,,???? That's one of the classics for the WS fog babble!
It had to hurt to hear this. But ya know what? YOU have EARNED the respect of your boys VS having WS enforce it. Yes, he should have required it of them long ago. Yet, in the absence of his filling his role as father and husband in this regard, YOU stepped up to the plate and taught your sons appropriately.
Evidently WH is trying to get ahold of my cousin who is the executor of my trust fund. I have no access to that money until I retire and actually don't get money from it. I think I am finding he is desperate more and more
What???? You gotta be kidding me?
No sadly, I am not. I can email you the whole conversation with my daughter. It's pretty interesting.
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But then again he reemphasized the boys would need to be respectful of OW.
My boys learned how to be disrespectful to me from their father. I find it ironic that they are supposed to go to their trailer and treat her with more respect than they treat me at times or WH is going to get on their case.
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WTF?? Excuse my french! And your boys said,,,,,???? That's one of the classics for the WS fog babble!
It had to hurt to hear this. But ya know what? YOU have EARNED the respect of your boys VS having WS enforce it. Yes, he should have required it of them long ago. Yet, in the absence of his filling his role as father and husband in this regard, YOU stepped up to the plate and taught your sons appropriately.
Goddess Queenie!!
I don't know if I have taught them well enough, but I continue to work on it. Hurt, nothing he does seems to hurt me anymore. In a million years I would have never thought I loved him so much and could take such pain and still hope he comes home. I really must be someone so frickin stupid.
I am totally not up for a trip to the PNW, so you'd better take the 2 x 4 with love and make it count.
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I really must be someone so frickin stupid.
You are NOT, and I repeat NOT stupid!!!!
Love is not stupid. Beating yourself up for loving may be. Loving them without setting boundaries may be. Letting them destroy us definately is.
But you aren't letting him destroy you. YOU, my dear, are taking the most devestating of cirumstances and making POSITIVE changes in your life in spite of HIS STUPID, SELFISH wayward actions.
So Stop the Stinkin Thinkin!! And that's an order missy!
You are not stupid. You are just still not over it all. You know how they talk about the different stages of grief when someone dies? Well, this is the same sort of thing. You have denial, anger, acceptance, denial, anger, acceptance......
get my drift?
Queenie, I know about still being stuck in the wanting him back but also wanting a better deal than I got.
You know, lots of Betrayed Spouses get the short end of the stick emotionally.
OK, I'm gonna send you some links to songs that helped me.....Yeah, the Princess found music therapeutic. You might think I'm crazy but I got better to these songs. I nearly wore out my Alanis Morrisette CD.
So, believe it or not, I would go to sleep feeding myself songs about how I deserved better. I claimed the better life and saw it. First, you have to not dwell on what has happened.
Exploring the concept of self-forgiveness is important.
And, for what it's worth, those are just boys you are raising. When they haven't had respect for mom modeled for them, it's hard for them. I still give my son grief for how he treats me sometimes. In fact, his dad does too, sometimes. See, he saw some of those same behaviors from his dad.
I just posted links for you about Reverse Babble on the thread where you asked about it...
Queenie,
What's up with all this "poor me" stuff.
I know you hurt, Queenie and I know you feel like much of what has happened was because you did something wrong or did not so something right. But if you keep beating yourself up, you'll take away our jobs here...
So don't beat yourself up, give someone else a chance...
This stinkin' thinkin' has got to top, Girl...
I see you are worried that the money will not be there tomorrow as it is supposed to be. If it's not, you have reason to be concerned, but you can call your lawyer.
If it is there on time, you have wasted time worrying about what might have happened but didn't.
Worry is the interest we pay on not believing God will take care of us.
Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God.... (Ps 20:7)
OTOH, it's OK to mourn your loss in all of this. You have been so strong and an example to many of what can be accomplished and what can be done by a person willing to sacrifice their own desires for their marriage.
The Lord will take care of you Queenie, with or without your husband's cooperation. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills...
Thank you for bringing the self pity to my attention. I didn't see it like that, but truly it's so obvious I should have seen the wall a mile away.
Oh well, better late than never.
I'm not worrying about the money as much as I would have in the past. But what is really bothering me is my food. It's out of control and I am gaining weight.
I talked to my sponsor yesterday during our morning walk and she told me to start working it like the 12 steps. I admitted I am powerless over food and when it's out of control my life begins to become unmanageable.
I am doing so good in so many ways. G-d was so gracious to me the other day and yet the OLD pattern of my self destructing seems to taken hold and need to seek G-d more diligently to help me move forward.
There is shifting going on. Sitting back and totally watching WH destroy himself is hard for me, and I have to wonder if unconsiously I am stirring up crap in my life. Who knows, but it's something I need to stop.
I've worked too hard to lose this weight and have so much farther to go. I need to remember this body is a gift from G-d and right now I need his help giving up the food and letting my body, mind and spirit continue to heal.
Thanks Mark.... You really have such a way with wording things for me to look at. And then I can count sheep...
Queenie, I think we all have seasons when things become unmanageable. I know I do. Sometimes, I just have to fiture out what is triggering my behavior and learn to let it go. Tough stuff.
ISA 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.
ISA 54:6 The LORD will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit-- a wife who married young, only to be rejected," says your God.
ISA 54:10 Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed," says the LORD, who has compassion on you.
ISA 54:13 All your sons will be taught by the LORD, and great will be your children's peace.
ISA 54:14 In righteousness you will be established: Tyranny will be far from you; you will have nothing to fear. Terror will be far removed; it will not come near you.
ISA 54:15 If anyone does attack you, it will not be my doing; whoever attacks you will surrender to you.
ISA 54:16 "See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc;
ISA 54:17 no weapon forged against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and this is their vindication from me," declares the LORD.
You really have such a way with wording things for me to look at. And then I can count sheep..
So what you're telling me is a put you to sleep...
Gee, thanks...
re: food
Food is not your friend. It is not a reward or a consolation prize. Especially if you eat when you are depressed, you need to do something about the depression. Maybe ADs are in order, but you also need to be careful with those.
And if you sleep better, you might begin to feel better and when you feel better, you might be better able to control what and how you eat. It becomes a vicious cycle.
I'm not depressed. It's a totally weird feeling. When my food is out of control it's because I am hurting myself for whatever reason.
That's what I have to figure out is why am I hurting myself. Am I stopping my successes that are truly building me a new life and moving farther ahead.
I do my best to think of food as FUEL. It is there to nourish your body, to help it chug along, and carry you through a day; you only need so much of it; the extra food is useless. I'm not always successful, and sometimes succumb to the stress. Most of the time, i do well with this mantra.
Money is really tight for me right now; so tight that i took a bit out of my IRA AGAIN. I need to get some bills under control. Meh, it is what it is. Food has gone up, and gasoline, of course, as well as electricity supply and water. It's all scyrocketing. I hope to manage things with this money so that I can continue living lean and maybe save some money over the next year.
You have a pattern that I notice. When things go well, you take a downward turn, as if you are waiting for the other shoe to drop, as if you don't deserve this WIN. I dunno, just what I see. I'm sure we all do it, to some extent.
There has been a little activity that my DD brought to my attention. I actually am not reacting to WH's drama as much anymore.
Evidently WH is trying to get ahold of my cousin who is the executor of my trust fund. I have no access to that money until I retire and actually don't get money from it. I think I am finding he is desperate more and more.
If he is actually contacting her about $$, then you need to let your attorney know. BTW, have you asked her to NOT talk to you about WH or what he does as part of your Plan B?
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He did contact YS by email to invite him to come visit him. The first time he said it would be nice and then told YS that he would have to be respectful to OW. When YS made a comment, WH invited him again saying it's been awhile and he would like both of the boys to come. But then again he reemphasized the boys would need to be respectful of OW.
Again, why are you getting involved in their conversation? This should be between YS and WH. See how it hurt you? YS should have just said I've been invited and I do... don't... want to go.
((((Queenie)))) - I hate seeing you exposed to his poision.
You have a pattern that I notice. When things go well, you take a downward turn, as if you are waiting for the other shoe to drop, as if you don't deserve this WIN. I dunno, just what I see. I'm sure we all do it, to some extent.
SL, wow, you are good. This is absolutely my pattern and I have to fight this all the time.
Thank you for noticing. Not sure how to stop it or prepare for it by affirmations or teach myself before hand. But this is something I need to do.
That is what is so weird. I'm not hurt by what the kids are saying, certainly not like before. I am numb. I am sad for "us", but I have accepted he is no longer my H and is just a monster.
I think that I want to know what's going on so I can protect myself, like in the case of him searching for money, but other than that it's my need to control and you are so right. I have no business doing it in Plan B.
I haven't told my DD to not tell me anything, but I will. I need to pray for more willingness though.
Though I will say his poison may be affected me unconsciously, and that's something I need to protect myself from.
Actually I have been talking about it with someone who goes to food addicts anonymous. The cool part is they have phone meetings and I would prefer that versus driving and being gone from home some more.
One thing that has been bothering me, I am someone who HATES to be at home - always have. But since I am the only adult with the boys, I find myself needing to be there. I am not doing any family things with them and in a way we are just existing. I see that I am losing precious time and memories with them. So, any suggestions on what we could do as a family that doesn't take much money and then when I feel like I need to be away I don't feel so guilty.
Well, I am the one feeling guilty about not being with they boys. I don't really think they care. So maybe I should just ask them and see what they say and take them at their word.
What a novel concept, eh? Personally I don't need to be with them, but I also don't want to waste this time because I am happier sitting in my bedroom putzing around.
You know.
No, my problem is I eat late at night. But actually lately I have been grazing all day long.
I tell my sons OFTEN.."I DO AND DID THE BEST I CAN"
Cmon, Queenie..FOCUS on being as HAPPY as you can be...
Get rid of any tempting food around your house..throw it out..JUST LIKE YOU WOULD LIQUOR..only have healthy food around there...it's good for you and your boys...
I just took one big step in the direction of healing myself.
I am putting my YS on a plane on July 9th until August 19th to spend it with my SIL who was up for graduation. He'll have his cousins and little cousins to play with, plus private time.
This is so hard for me, but it's good for him and then I will have time to myself to work on me and just heal me.
I just took one big step in the direction of healing myself.
I am putting my YS on a plane on July 9th until August 19th to spend it with my SIL who was up for graduation. He'll have his cousins and little cousins to play with, plus private time.
This is so hard for me, but it's good for him and then I will have time to myself to work on me and just heal me.
There's lots of 100 Calorie Snacks and NO SUGAR CANNED FRUIT..but you have to be able to do PORTION CONTROL..I have to have my sweets..but I don't use SUGAR...I'm addicted to the BLUE STUFF...
There are 100 Calorie Granola Bars that will satisfy your "sweet tooth" (grandmother saying)..I love the Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip..BUT..you have to eat just ONE..at a time...AFTER YOUR WALK..K?
My PERSONAL TRAINER taught me to keep a FOOD JOURNAL. She was a fanatic about that. I HATED doing it but it helped keep me on track. She also taught me that as long as I keep up my workout out routing that if I watched what I ate during the week then I could eat what I wanted on the WEEKEND. It's about REWARDING and not DEPRIVING yourself...
WH has emailed me in two places to get items or something from me.
My lawyer sent me an email saying WH called asking about the taxes again. I have told WH, his friend, lawyer that I gave him until March 28th to get his W2 to me. He never got them to me.
So I went and filed an extension with my accountant for just me. Now it's become of the utmost importance and I am supposed to get them done asap.
I will not break Plan B for him, but not sure how to handle this.
I think it would be appropriate to tell your attorney to tell his attorney to tell him that he missed the deadline and he needs to do his taxes - unless he wants you to file a joint return and you keep the refund.
You know, for all the peace I have, two emails and I'm all stirred up. The items he is asking for, I have no clue where they are and it's just to hurt me.
I have to go get my MS, I'll be back. Hopefully I can pray along the way and find some peace again.
After so long with NO CONTACT, why is he doing this? He didn't once try and break it before last week, and then he tried to push my buttons at court and that didn't work and now this.
Cinders, You are the best. Where do you come up with this stuff.
I am doing better. I realize I have no idea what this is about. I can hope he is trying to push my buttons and draw me back in, but I really have no clue.
The items he wants, I really have no idea where they are, but while on vacation I will keep an eye out and get them to my lawyer and he can pick them up from there.
As for the taxes. I prefer to file alone. I can claim head of household and it would benefit me more to do this way.
So, don't worry about his things.....what you find, you find - when you find it. don't sweat that. if they were important, he should have taken them when he left. Therefore, they must not be that important.
As for the taxes, go look in your mirror. See that woman looking at you....do hers....he's a big boy....if he needs to do his, he needs to do them. You do hers.
So, we fixed those two problems.
Actually, I listen to the radio more than I watch television. That's what happens when you don't have cable and you refuse to pay to watch the idiot box. So, I go on the internet searching for one thing and, voila - thanks to my ADD brain, I find more cool stuff.
This is my brand new day starting now I let go the things that weigh me down And rob me of the beauty that’s to be found In life all around This is my prayer without ceasing the negative releasing And I rise above my burden is easing
I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, drink so deep The river of life, my soul at ease I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, rising above the storms of life To live and love
This is my brand new day in the light Troubles rising up on the left and the right I keep my eyes fixed on where I want to go The rest will follow And this is my prayer without ceasing the negative releasing And as I rise above my burden is easing
I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, drink so deep The river of life, my soul at ease I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, rising above the storms of life To live and love
This is my brand new day starting now Letting go of the ways that I fall down The old can be made new, the lost can be found, the lost will be found This is my prayer without ceasing the negative releasing And as I rise above my burden is easing
I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, drink so deep The river of life, my soul at ease I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, rising above the storms of life To live and love
My soul is at ease and I am free My soul is at ease and I am free This is my day My soul is at ease and I am free And I am free
I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, drink so deep The river of life, my soul at ease I bring the pure flow, like water around The rocks of life won’t pull me down I bring the pure flow, rising above the storms of life To live and love
Take a look at the mountains Stretching a mile high Take a look at the ocean Far as your eye can see And think of Me
Take a look at the desert Do you feel like a grain of sand? I am with you wherever Where you go is where I am
And I'm always thinking of you Take a look around you I'm spelling it out one by one
(Chorus) I love you more than the sun And the stars that I taught how to shine You are mine, and you shine for me too I love you yesterday and today And tomorrow, I'll say it again and again I love you more
Just a face in the city Just a tear on a crowded street But you are one in a million And you belong to Me
And I want you to know That I'm not letting go Even when you come undone
(Chorus) I love you more than the sun And the stars that I taught how to shine You are mine, and you shine for me too I love you yesterday and today And tomorrow, I'll say it again and again I love you more I love you more
Shine for Me Shine for Me Shine on, shine on Shine for Me
(Chorus) I love you more than the sun And the stars that I taught how to shine You are mine, and you shine for me too I love you yesterday and today And tomorrow, I'll say it again and again I love you more
(Chorus) Than the sun and the stars that I taught how to shine You are mine, and you shine for me too I love you, yesterday and today Through the joy and the pain I'll say it again and again I love you more I love you more
And I see you And I made you And I love you more than you can imagine More than you can fathom I love you more than the sun And you shine for me
I told my A that WH knows he needs to go through intermediary if he wants to get a message from me.
Perfect Answer. In fact, it is the ONLY answer!!
Cinders is right,,,
Quote
As for the taxes, go look in your mirror. See that woman looking at you....do hers....he's a big boy....if he needs to do his, he needs to do them. You do hers.
Get yours done - NOW. He has no choice if you have yours done.
I will take care of this over the weekend and get them to my accountant. It's not like I don't know how to do them. I am the ONLY one who did them our entire M.
I have just struggled so deeply the last few days and I am working hard at getting out of it. But's its gotten me and instead of beating myself up, I just am being quiet and sitting with G-d, talking to him and praying.
I haven't heard back from my A since explaining that if WH wants information or something from me, he needs to go through intermediary. OS told me he wants to go to college in CA and that is making me nervous financially because I won't be able to keep the child support towards my household, but need to send it to him. So now I am not sure if I am needing to move again.
The one thing I did do for myself is order new checks - true GODDESS style. Called Pampered Girls. They seem to fit where I need to be walking towards in my life.
If I can get my s... together right now, today is my last day of work until August 6th. But I can't concentrate and there is so much left to do.
UGH - when is this "thing" going to pass inside of me... I need to pull myself together and keep moving forward. Oh, I did buy a life recovery bible that will match the 12 steps. I need to work on my food addiction and have been borrowing a friend's, but I need to give it back.
It's raining today, lightening and thundering too. In the past I always had my H to cuddle with as these storms scare me. Maybe that's my problem. I'm just nervous with this storm.
It's raining today, lightening and thundering too. In the past I always had my H to cuddle with as these storms scare me. Maybe that's my problem. I'm just nervous with this storm.
Yep, know that feeling, I hate them too, and we've been having at least one everyday for the last week next one we get, Im going to think about you, we can be nervous together [[[hugs]]]Queenie
You should see the storms we've had around here this year...
The northern suburbs got hit last night with hail that tore the siding off of houses, destroyed roofs, broke windows and completely trashed people's cars. We're waiting for an insurance pay-off on our roof that was damaged by hail earlier in the season.
Last month we had a tornado that went through the eastern part of our county and was on the ground for over two hours. Interstate 57 was close for several days due to cars, trucks, trees and parts of buildings scattered about in the roadway and high voltage power lines down across the road.
Just west of here, they got another 3 or 4 inches of rain in some places and the rivers haven't gone back in their banks since the last flooding yet. 73 of the 99 counties in Iowa are federal disaster areas. River traffic on the Mississippi has been shut down for weeks now and railroads have been unable to travel through parts of Iowa because of the floods knocking the bridges out. Interstate 80 was close in parts of Iowa for over two weeks due to flooding and damaged bridges.
In Iowa predictions are that between 90 and 100 % of the soybean crop and 15 - 20 % of the corn crop is gone. If it rains much more in the next few weeks, the corn numbers will go even higher because corn needs dry weather in order to pollinate.
Parts of Wisconsin got 20 inches of rain or more in ten days. The Mississippi River has yet to crest in southern Illinois and we're on pace for a record number of tornadoes for the year. Another tornado touched down in northern Iowa last yesterday afternoon.
Yesterday was 90 with thunderstorms and today is 70 with blue skies. By Sunday night, it will get hot again and then storm some more.
If you don't like Midwest weather, stick around, it'll change...Suddenly and radically...
And in January, it will be below zero for days and the snow will be up to our...bumpers...
You are so right the midwest certainly gets some duzzys. There are no comparisons.
Ok, I am freaking out and need to get ahold of myself. WH contacted YS and wants to play ball with him tomorrow. I don't know if he is planning on bringing her, but according to the parenting plan, it's MY day.
But then I know deep down when I take myself out of it, my son needs his dad, but the truth is I want it on my terms and I can't have it that way can I.
So, I'm heading out the door to an AA meeting, but I just would like some help on how to let this go. In Plan B I built up this wall around me and in one weeks time, I have been around him, had to deal with him directly emailing me and now this. What is going on?
I'm not ready for this. I'm praying, but I'm just falling apart.
I hope one day I will no longer be hurt at what he does. He has a copy of the parenting plan, why can't he see it's not his holiday, why does he need to push this. There is no way I could say no or be that small.
Queenie I was just reading the Word For The Day, and it seemed to speak to me about you. Umm, i think you can change Christ for God in this situation.
Seeing Yourself As God Does (1)
We were like grasshoppers in our own sight. - Numbers 13:33
When Moses sent 12 spies to check out the Promised Land, 10 came back saying, "We saw...giants...and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight" (Nu 13:33).
Israel had repeatedly witnessed God's power; why now were they intimidated? It's a perception problem called low self-esteem, and it's how the enemy prevents you from winning. The Israelites quickly forgot their Red Sea deliverance and instead remembered Egypt where they'd lived as slaves. Be careful. Hard times can make you think you don't deserve to be blessed! Anytime you have something of value, the enemy will attack you. In the Old Testament we read: "When the Philistines heard...David had been anointed king...they went up in full force to search for him" (2 Sa 5:17 NIV). Until you claim your rightful place in Christ, Satan will tell you that you deserve to be mistreated. So cover yourself in God's Word until it becomes such a part of you that you stop doubting yourself. God made you in His image, redeemed you, dwells in you, and that makes you valuable!
I went to my AA meeting tonight and the topic was humility. To take that a step further. Humbly asked G-d to remove my character defects. My very top character defects were manipulating and controlling. Very simply, I don't get to do anything but let go and let G-d.
There is no way I could live with myself and lay that on my YS about this not being his dad's day. I can't be that selfish. My son needs his dad. I have to trust G-d, it's all I can do.
However, I can email the lawyer on Monday and let him know what WH did. But I simply can not put my son in the middle or make him feel bad. I have to let him make his own choices and the pain and hurt it causes me, I'll come here and cry and talk to G-d.
You are so right Lil, I simply don't see what G-d sees at all in me. I don't know what stops me, but it's plain I just dont' see it.
I agree Mimi, it really seems like he is trying to get me to break Plan B. How ironic, once the upset passes I can see that for what it's worth and helps to solidify me. I'm not breaking my Plan. For whatever reason, he is doing what he is doing and I just need to keep coming here, my safety net, keep going to meeting and let go and let G-d. I have to trust and walk in FAITH that this pain will stop one day.
Actually yes, Cinders, I have two places I was invited to. At noon I was planning on dropping off the boys at the first party, they are going to play volleyball, etc, and I was going to my sponsors house because she is having a big shin dig because it's her AA birthday. Then I was going to head back over to where my boys are around 5:00, help get dinner ready, stay for a little while and then go to an AA meeting and watch the fireworks afterwards. So I am quite busy.
I built up this nice wall around me, had it controlled the way I wanted, he stayed away and life was healing. Now he is doing what he is doing and it's shaking me up. I just hadn't experienced this and so it's new and I am navigating how to stay completely dark and yet not deprive my child of his father.
As for the crack ho. I really have to let that go. I just have to TRUST G-d.
You are so right Lil, I simply don't see what G-d sees at all in me. I don't know what stops me, but it's plain I just dont' see it.
Father's Love Letter My Child ~ You may not know me, but I know everything about you ~ Psalm 139:1 I know when you sit down and when you rise up ~ Psalm 139:2 I am familiar with all your ways ~ Psalm 139:3 Even the very hairs on your head are numbered ~ Matthew 10:29-31 For you were made in my image ~ Genesis 1:27 In me you live and move and have your being ~ Acts 17:28 For you are my offspring ~ Acts 17:28 I knew you even before you were conceived ~ Jeremiah 1:4-5 I chose you when I planned creation ~ Ephesians 1:11-12 You were not a mistake, for all your days are written in my book ~ Psalm 139:15-16 I determined the exact time of your birth and where you would live ~ Acts 17:26 You are fearfully and wonderfully made ~ Psalm 139:14 I knit you together in your mother's womb ~ Psalm 139:13 And brought you forth on the day you were born ~ Psalm 71:6 I have been misrepresented by those who don't know me ~ John 8:41-44 I am not distant and angry, but am the complete expression of love ~ 1 John 4:16 And it is my desire to lavish my love on you ~ 1 John 3:1 Simply because you are my child and I am your father ~ 1 John 3:1 I offer you more than your earthly father ever could ~ Matthew 7:11 For I am the perfect father ~ Matthew 5:48 Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand ~ James 1:17 For I am your provider and I meet all your needs ~ Matthew 6:31-33 My plan for your future has always been filled with hope ~ Jeremiah 29:11 Because I love you with an everlasting love ~ Jeremiah 31:3 My thoughts toward you are countless as the sand on the seashore ~ Psalm 139:17-18 And I rejoice over you with singing ~ Zephaniah 3:17 I will never stop doing good to you ~ Jeremiah 32:40 For you are my treasured possession ~ Exodus 19:5 I desire to establish you with all my heart and all my soul ~ Jeremiah 32:41 And I want to show you great and marvelous things ~ Jeremiah 33:3 If you seek me with all your heart, you will find me ~ Deuteronomy 4:29 Delight in me and I will give you the desires of your heart ~ Psalm 37:4 For it is I who gave you those desires ~ Philippians 2:13 I am able to do more for you than you could possibly imagine ~ Ephesians 3:20 For I am your greatest encourager ~ 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17 I am also the Father who comforts you in all your troubles ~ 2 Corinthians 1:3-4 When you are brokenhearted, I am close to you ~ Psalm 34:18 As a shepherd carries a lamb, I have carried you close to my heart ~ Isaiah 40:11 One day I will wipe away every tear from your eyes ~ Revelation 21:3-4 And I'll take away all the pain you have suffered on this earth ~ Revelation 21:3-4 I am your Father, and I love you even as I love my son, Jesus ~ John 17:23 I gave up everything I loved that I might gain your love ~ Romans 8:31-32 And nothing will ever separate you from my love again ~ Romans 8:38-39 Come home and I'll throw the biggest party heaven has ever seen ~ Luke 15:7 I have always been Father, and will always be Father ~ Ephesians 3:14-15 My question is ~ Will you be my child? ~ John 1:12-13 I am waiting for you ~ Luke 15:11-32 Love, Your Dad, Almighty God
I have printed this out and am going to curl up in bed with my Torah and find each one of them that I can. Wait for my recovery bible to come and mark that book up.
Thank you so much. I have a lot of work to do for me. Maybe one day, I'll see it.
2You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways.
4Before a word is on my tongue you, Lord, know it completely.
5You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me.
6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.
7Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence?
8If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.
11If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,”
12even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.
13For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
15My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
16your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
17How precious to me are your thoughts,[1] God! How vast is the sum of them!
18Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand— when I awake, I am still with you.
19If only you, God, would slay the wicked! Away from me, you who are bloodthirsty!
20They speak of you with evil intent; your adversaries misuse your name.
21Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
22I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them my enemies.
23Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
13For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
One day I'll understand what you all are trying to teach me. I just am not there yet. But I am working and praying for the willingess to just act as if.
I'm closer, before I wouldn't have even gone to a place where I could see I was worth it. Now I just have to ask G-d how to let it be inside of me.
Queenie - There is no doubt. The affair will not last. You can count on it. You just need to hang in there and know that you are fearfully and wonderfully made.
I have a lot of work to do for me. Maybe one day, I'll see it.
I see a woman, strong in her faith. I see a woman whose kind, caring, forgiving and loving heart is making a way for a man who is not deserving of such munificence. I see a woman who is taking the broken parts of herself and touching the hem of the Lords’ robe. Fully relying on Him, not herself.
The A will end, I believe it. Whether or not you have moved on when it does, is another issue. Queenie, its an appropriate name. You are a queen. Your royal dignity shows in every post.
You are too kind. Lil, He is deserving. He is an addict who is sick. And I married him for life, in sickness and health and I just can't give up on him. Though it's tempting.
What I have become is because of G-d and not anything I did. He had enough FAITH in me to keep on walking even when I want to stop, and just don't.
I love the H Lil, I am a servant of G-d and I married a man that I just didn't appreciate and take care of like I could have. And I pray with all my heart G-d gives me one more chance to make it up to my H.
You are too kind. Lil, He is deserving. He is an addict who is sick. And I married him for life, in sickness and health and I just can't give up on him. Though it's tempting.
What I have become is because of G-d and not anything I did. He had enough FAITH in me to keep on walking even when I want to stop, and just don't.
I love the H Lil, I am a servant of G-d and I married a man that I just didn't appreciate and take care of like I could have. And I pray with all my heart G-d gives me one more chance to make it up to my H.
Loving your H and wanting to make it up.. I understand. Regret every day i didnt do my part.
I disagree, God has done much, but you had to be willing to be open to Him
Hi Queenie, Just to let you know I'm keeping up with your thread.... I know this is tough but keep on standing... I hope your kids are supporting you all the way..
Its 10pm here and I'm leaving work..wil pop in tomorrow ... Walk by faith and not by sight....
Have a good day at work. I just got back from disappearing so YS can go be with his dad. Turns out WH didn't come to get him because he didn't think he could waste the gas.
My YS told me that. WOW.....
My son is hurt, I can see it in his eyes. So, I just asked him if I could do anything, he said no. I dropped him and his brother off at a volley ball tournament and am heading over to my sponsors house for a party.
I made taboule.
I gotta say, that just about floored me. WH can get the money to play lacrosse, but not come see his son. Wow...
You know when I see WH's treating their children like this all I can say is this is proof to me that satan has a hand in this .....in destroying families....I mean the kids are the innocent ones here....
I hate it that we,the moms have to pick up the pieces and put our kids hearts back together again.
Mimi does it again. She is right about not pushing the boys but letting them come to you. It would not have made my anger come out any sooner than it did had my M try to get it out of me. I had to deal with it in my own way within my own timeframe. I hope they don't carry it for 25 years like I did but that's what it might take. The other thing you need to remember is that no matter what help you can provide, they will not get closure until the day that they confront their F with the anger and pain. They may just as easily decide to push it aside and repress the feelings, cutting him out of their lives completely. Point is that the boys will decide what they need to do to heal.
This is a mistake, this line of thinking; it's poison to a BS. STRENGTH Queenie.
This is what I was trying to explain to you yesterday. I would have rather ridden out Plan B to a D, than to have been faced with the lying and then alcohol. It was like a slap in the face, more abuse on top of the abuse I had already taken time and time again.
You can, OBVIOUSLY, survive without him. You are and you have. This is about QUALITY, Queenie, and he's not grade A, choice meat right now. He's clearance, gray meat.
Get your head together. Stop with the expectations that your WH is SUDDENLY going to turn over a new leaf and not be a total [censored]. This metamorphesis takes time, AND takes a WANT to change, to be better.
You keep saying he's a monster, but I don't see you believing it. Slay this dragon (in your head) and declare your independence.
IF your husband shows up, you can offer him a chance to make it right, but don't go on believing that he is not a completely vile excuse for a husband/father right now. Lock the love away, and don't look back until or if he shows up.
I caught up on your thread and you are doing an awesome job. And SL is right, Plan B to Plan D is so much better than continued lying and noncommitment to the M. I've been there too and it stinks.
Your WH will be lucky if you ever give him a chance to make it up to you. Let him go for now - he's still evil.
Thank you for the encouragement. I think it's still painfully obvious I am willing to settle for the monster versus allowing G-d to give me the miracle of my H or anyone who will treat me better than what WH does.
I will work on anything, anyone but myself. But unfortunately or fortunately the rubber is meeting the road and this personal journey is becoming more and more painful in learning to accept me and love myself.
However, I have almost am done with work, hopefully today or tomorrow and I have made a commitment to myself to treat Queenie like a queen and learn about her. I just am not sure how to go about it so I am praying lots right now.
My 4th was awesome. It really was, then Saturday was an awful day, went to a meeting and broke down crying AGAIN. I have done that so much lately in meetings. My sponsor who doesn't normally go to that meeting was there and called me on it. She asked me to look at my character defects and how they may be playing a role. My major ones are manipulating, controlling and martyr. I came home and thought long and hard about it.
I came up with martyr was playing a role, but not because I want attention. I couldn't quiet grasp what my sponsor was saying as truth, so I sat with it yesterday. When I went to my meeting last night, my sponsor was there and she has not ever be there before with me and she asked me if I had thought more. We talked about martyr and how it plays out in my life.
Then she said something to me, which I immediately responded that I was jealous which is definetly another character defect, I just haven't worked on this one as much. Mimi, how many times have you called me on my jealousy and I just didn't put the level of important on how it plays in my life.
One of the things my sponsor reminded me of, was when our character defects rear their ugly head it's because we are afraid, and I'm just simply afraid that as I open up and more and more people get to know me, you, them will abandon me because that's my experience in life.
So, I am learning to ask G-d to remove my shortcomings with the addition of jealousy and asking him to replace it with a good quality, like I am able to appreciate that good that people have in their lives and look forward to those goods one day soon.
I miss you all. I hope you are all doing well. Mark, have a blast, I hope to learn how to go fishing one day. Being on a boat with the person I love just seems like something that would be very special.
Off to work, get a little done, then tanning for me today. I'm spoiling myself by resting.
I still need to get the taxes done. I am so avoiding that one. And don't know why. Well I do, but I am not ready to discuss it yet.
I can safely say that my time of self recovery has been difficult on many turns, but well worth it once I worked thru my pain and my mess.
Every day is not such a challenge anymore; not always thinking about how to let go, how to stop THINKING, how to just LIVE. Now I just live, in the moment; when something comes up, and I deal with it and then drive on.
I have accepted myself, flaws and all, and have been working on those things that I see need to be improved.
LIving with my sister has been a challenge, but I'm finding ways to communicate and FINALLY seperate our lives. We have had this really bad, unhealthy relationship for quite a long time. We always loved one another, but never quite meshed, as young adults and beyond. our chosen paths and joys are so different. I have accepted who she is and how she lives for quite some time now, but we would get embroiled in battle when it came to how *I* live and what I choose to do. It boiled down to me not spending the time SHE required of me with her.
I can compromise on that, but I don't believe it is MY job to keep her busy or fill up her time or entertain her. I have spoken to her about this, and about the attempts to GUILT TRIP me in the past and how that is not appropriate for our relationship. Heavan's sake, she's not my husband!
She's got a lot of issues with being alone. Has a hard time doing it. BE STILL is not in her vocabulary. It's unnerving sometimes. She makes noise all the time. It's like a beacon calling attention to herself. I don't even think she realizes that she does that. I haven't found a way to broach that subject yet.
I love your words and "rambling" I love to hear about your recovery because I admire it so much and know how hard it has been to get there.
As for all of us. But you are always willing to walk through that challenge and come out the other side.
Oh, I think I forgot to mention that after my meeting I went to the bar with another AA person, and just sat there and listened to music. It was a way different environment, but nice to get out and do something fun as a single person.
Would not do it with someone who drinks, but it's close and it was late and not much happening but getting outside of my own walls.
She asked me to look at my character defects and how they may be playing a role. My major ones are manipulating, controlling and martyr. I came home and thought long and hard about it.
So what were your thoughts?
You can't stay on the ROAD TO SUCCESS?
You want to tell us about your SETBACKS???
You thought you might just THROW THIS OUT and see what happens..GOING TO A BAR???
Stay out of the bars. There is nothing there. Nothing. Music, schmusic. ESPECIALLY after a meeting, when you are most vulnerable, after realizing a low, after digging deep to find your next step.
You have posted so much about how low you are since your WIN in court. Don't rely on others to fill you up; you MUST work toward loving yourself. TEMPTING yourself by going to bars is going to backfire BIG TIME. Don't wallow in self pity.
You can do this, Queenie.
Sure, I would like to have a man to bite into, um, er, I mean, talk to, but that will not stop me from doing what is best for me and choosing just any old body, so as to not be alone. I want MORE, better things. I'd also rather be alone than with someone who does not want me or see my value.
I came home and realized that part of me is being a martyr for being willing to stay in this M. You know look at me, look how good and loving I can be for this flipping loser of a man who doesn't give a rip that he is destroying a family.
But that's the self pity person. Truly I buy into the addiction part and understand that he is just in his addiction and the sad truth is we don't know if he will come out or not.
So the day to day task of building a new life becomes more important. I personally would have rather gone to AppleBee's, I just wanted to go out and laugh, the walls were closing in on me. Then truly I am not trying to be difficult, but what can I do that's fun at night that's safe and yet lets me feel alive by having fun?
I get the no bars. I'm in agreement that it really can be dangerous. I'm am SO NOT looking for a man in there. They drink, I don't want someone who drinks. I want my H. But I want to feel alive inside and laugh and feel like I can have fun. My friend who has walked through this with me IRL, her divorce is in the final stages and maybe what didn't occur to me was our life is changing as friends and I am losing her b/c she if free to do that single life, but I'm not.
I do not want to live in self pity. I really don't. I am working so hard to find a way to get out of my funk, pick up the darn pieces and move forward in building a new life for me. A life that I don't want to build, but really have no choice. A life that is completely different than the dream I had.
Please don't abandon me Mimi, I am working so hard at trying to navigate through this and learn to take care of myself. But I DO NOT WANT TO and I am fighting internally just as hard as I can between my successes and my tendency to destroy.
Yes, when things are going good, my natural instinct is to destroy. I'm my own addict/alcholic and I am dealing with my own addiction along side learning to let go and leave WH to G-d.
Which I don't buy for one second and I'm working so hard to just act as if and believe that one day I will truly buy into it.
I DON'T SEE what you or G-d sees in ME. I am walking in FAITH that one day I will, but it's a flipping hard walk and one that just simply gets tiring to me. But I keep on going and I keep on fighting to survive.
Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Don't ALLOW yourself all the backpeddling, the martyr hat, all that jazz.
You give yourself an inch and the negativity will take a mile. No OH WHOA IS ME-ING. Your life is no more difficult than many, and for some, it's easier.
Look on the bright side.
Seriously, you had a great win; a lot of financial burden is lifted. It may not be all that you want, but it's all that you NEED.
Your girlfriend would probably love it if you invited her over for a spot of supper or to go to a movie, or local theatre or museum, or roller skating. I dunno, just put your thinking cap on. You don't have to go to a bar to keep a friend. That's your insecurity talking. REAL friends don't ABANDON. Real friends tell it like it is and stick around for the aftermath of their frankness. Yes, lives can diverge and converge with friends, depending on your personal situations, but that won't STOP the relationship unless YOU want it or allow it to.
I have girlfriends that are in various stages in their lives. I don't see them all the time, but I see them enough, and email and call. I go to their houses for dinner or to just talk, or they come to mine.
Ok, I'll work on being more creative. It's a bit more challening in the sticks late at night. But who knows what I can come up with.
Actually I am truly cool with the amount of money, it is exactly what I asked for, I missed understood what I was asking for. I just haven't seen it yet. Don't know how that works.
This abandonment thing is a little more deep than I realized. I usually pushed people away before they got too close and got the chance. I gave H the chance and he became WH and abandon. But, I'm looking at why I did what I did and learn from it and grow.
That's all I can do is learn about me. But it's just a little scary. It makes me a bit more vulnerable than I want to, but I'm just putting one step in from of the other and will work on the no back peddling.
Well The FIRST STEP is to ACKNOWLEDGE and ACCEPT, right? So this is GOOD STUFF...
Good stuff, but a little challenging. Now would be a good time to pick back up my writing and work through this stuff. I'm also heading over to my sponsors house and she and I are going to the women's meeting together.
I have avoided that meeting for a long time.
No more avoiding, just keep praying, walking with G-d and trusting what is happening.
To whom? To yourself? That's the best place to be with yourself. My best enlightenment has come at accepting who I am, mistakes, lumps and bumps and all. It's an ongoing process, but it's working wonders for me.
Queenie, you cannot stop people from abandoning you, but you must stop abandoning yourself in favor of others.
To whom? To yourself? That's the best place to be with yourself. My best enlightenment has come at accepting who I am, mistakes, lumps and bumps and all. It's an ongoing process, but it's working wonders for me.
Well today is as good as any to start working on this one. For sure
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Queenie, you cannot stop people from abandoning you, but you must stop abandoning yourself in favor of others.
I'm currently allowing my brain space to be taken up by reading up on memory loss and PTSD. I have a lot of empty spots in my mind that have developed since all this madness started.
I'm currently allowing my brain space to be taken up by reading up on memory loss and PTSD. I have a lot of empty spots in my mind that have developed since all this madness started.
What are you reading? I am looking for some lighthearted reading right now that is just mindless but taking up time. Any thoughts?
my book club has read - - a depressing book about a man who joined the circus, a book about a child whose father was the commandant at Auschwitz, a book about a man who married a prostitute.....and now we are reading a mystery that I won't shell out $20 for and can't find anywhere less.....
At the last meeting, some of us rebelled and announced that we had to have a mystery or something lighter. We had read too much despair and depression.
I did read a Jimmy Buffet book. Not great literature but not depressing, "A Salty Piece of Land". I've read Kinky Friedman's book about running for governor of Texas. and I'm reading Roy Blount, Jr.'s book about New Orleans.
I've yet to find the right book for this summer.
NPR has a librarian who does a feature periodically and has recommendations.
Oh, if you haven't read the "No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency" books by Alexander McCall Smith, you should. I love them. The titles are great, too: "The Kalahari Typing School For Men", "Morality Tale For Beautiful Women", "The Good Husband of Zebra Drive" and the such like. They are set in Botswana and are just wonderful. A little mystery. A little morality tale. Simply told. Get to your library and check them all out. They are easy reading.
Mostly about emotional immaturity in some men, and how they use their childhoods as an excuse for their current actions. there's a section in on infidelity. She doesnt particulary support reconcilliation, and believes everyone needs to have alone time and seperate hobbies in a marriage, but otherwise its ok.
We just talked about our sobriety and WH. And what's happening and how we need to move on and learn about ourselves and learn to love ourselves. No different than here really, but putting voice to it was good.
Maybe this relationship is another addiction for you. What would happen if you walked away from it to see what it becomes? The concept of "If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it is truly yours. If it doesn't, it was never really yours."
oh I absolutely agree that WH has been an addiction. The hardest and truest part is somewhere along the line I fell deeply in love with him and my world revolved around him. That was the biggest shock of all to everyone. I have to face that there are simply many questions and truth left unanswered as to what happened and somehow I will learn to come to terms with this and accept it.
I know that I love the man he could be. Whether he was or not ever that person, is left unanswered. My reality today is he is no longer a person who is good at all in my life.
I really have let him go. But its a grieving process that has all its gamuts. Today I am in more acceptance. Some days I am still in deniat this is happening.
Some days I'm so angry because it's not like I can go scream and yell at him and get any relief. He is sick and I wouldn't treat anyone who sick that way.
And some days I want to bargain, but I know that isn't reality.
So my reality today is my H is dead and I am a woman who needs to move on with her life and that won't include him. Will that include D, maybe, maybe not. G-d hasnt' answered me on that.
But he has answered me that WH is no longer safe for me and I am working very hard at just not thinking about him. Like filling up my days with laughter, sun, reading nothing special, meetings, my children although they don't want to spend time with me and just being still for the next thing to come.
Would a ritual releasing of him help? A ceremony to let him go?
I know that was one thing a counselor suggested I do. And I did a nice job of it, too.
Made an efigy of him from a shirt he had left behind. Made him a boat with his name on it. Picked out a bunch of stuff that had connections to him including a portion of my wedding dress, a wedding invitation, and picture, a letter telling him exactly what I thought of him.
A friend and I went canoing. We paddled out into the middle of a river. I made a little speech, put him in the boat and put the boat in the river. Then I released him so he could float away. I SENT HIM AWAY. AT MY WILL, HE WENT AWAY.
Then, we paddled over to the edge of the river and ate lunch. When we finished, we went on downstream.
By then, he had sailed away all by himself - adrift on the river of life.
I know that I love the man he could be. Whether he was or not ever that person, is left unanswered.
(((Queenie)))
Hey honey, just a checkin-in on ya....Sounds like you are doing well, which it SO AWESOME TO HEAR....YEAH....
How's the break going???
Well, you and I have talked about the above at length before. You know I stuggle with the same issue and still do. But I am so glad you are taking such a pro-active stance with it today.....its a hard thing to deal with....
That book is the shiznito-snip-snap-bam, in my most humble opinion. It's a good read for those of us in Plan B, much less Plan life.
I like it because I can pick a random day (even if it's not TODAY) and find a new mantra or awakening. Hence, Guy's thread title about the gerbil lunging.
So, yes, I think it would be a good read. Even better, would be getting to the point that you realize this man/woman needs to step UP to the plane you exist on to be worthy of one iota of your time.
I have to be honest, the break is going AWESOME. I get my chores done in the morning, then go to the pool and sit around relaxing. It's like being on vacation. OOPS, I am on vacation. LOL
Hi SD, I actually have that book, though honestly I don't read it too often. I might try that.
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Even better, would be getting to the point that you realize this man/woman needs to step UP to the plane you exist on to be worthy of one iota of your time.
This WOULD be one heck of a point to get to. I am so far from this, but willing to learn and keep trying.
Goofy me still believes I am the one who screwed it all up and am missing out. BUT, I am working through this by praying and pleading with G-d to keep putting people in my life who can help me walk through this and get BEYOND this.
The day will come when this part will be over. Just like it was when I felt all that guilt for how I destroyed my family. I believe it and have FAITH. I just want it to be today.
Hi Queenie (JT waving from the county with the "Loggerodeo")
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then go to the pool and sit around relaxing
You're on a "staycation"
I know how hard it is to let your kids leave, even if they are going to be having an awesome time. My YS has been gone for almost three weeks working at a horse camp. I'm sure he has been loving it, but he has no computer or phone service so I won't hear about it until Saturday when I pick him up. I have missed him so much!
OS just had his 20th bday (Sun) and he spent the whole day in Seattle with his GF. He had a great time, but I missed sharing any of the day with him. Oh well, it's good preparation for me when he is done with college and serving his country as an Army officer.
I've been thinking about you. Hopefully we can get together in the next couple of weeks.
I'm so glad it came out good. I pray about you all the time and ask G-d to watch over you and take care of you.
I would love to try and hook up next weekend.
My son is going away this weekend which will be weird, but I am looking forward to totally being alone and not doing anything other than sun and meetings.
Just thought I let you know that I am 'lurking' on your thread... you are working hard at facing challenges as they come... I am very proud of you... keep up the good work... and thank and appreciate those very smart and experienced and caring people around here that work hard at helping you face 'life as it is'....and in so doing....are helping me, too!
I am so grateful to have so many people on here who are part of my life now and walking through it with me, calling me on my crap and helping me keep moving forward. And it's even better if it's helping you.
One day, I keep saying that, but one day I will be a vet who is going to get to give back and that's really what this is all about. Sharing, lives, sharing recovery and sharing our hearts and healing together.
So here I have been praying for truths and understanding. This is something that I have visited before, but it's back and I just need to work through it a bit more.
We can all pretty much agree that my need to control, my lack of letting go, and acceptance keep cropping up. Why is that? Well, because my need to fix, control, and my unwillingness to accept that the damage I caused was just too much for our M and I don't deserve a second chance.
This morning while talking to G-d, a thought popped in my head. I need to put it out here, and then in my journal so I don't forget it. My deepest pain is feeling the sadness over what could be. Not what was and certainly not what is.
My M was so not what I wanted and I had a huge part in that. I know that we both loved each other deeply, and not always at the same times. But there was a basic, love, caring and genuine commitment to make our M work. We just didn't have "recovery" in the equation.
Our diseases both brought up to places that are selfish, self centered and absolutely destructive. I have sought recovery and WH is still out there living in his disease. I feel tremendous guilt over this, and not sure how to get passed it, other than learn to accept it and change my behavior by making sure I don't become that person again.
Most of you on here have way more clear consciences than me and you are lucky. You aren't an addict/alcoholic that has wreckage of her past to clear away when the time happens. My biggest wreckage is to my H, not WH and so that part of my recovery is left incomplete until G-d allows or not. Because I don't know what the future holds.
Like James posted this morning, G-d knows the plans he has for me.
So, as I keep fighting with all my soul along side G-d, I keep moving forward, learning about what happened so I can be forgiven by G-d by not making the same mistakes. In Judaism we call that true forgiveness or teshuvah.
That's on the one hand.
On the other hand, I feel like I have done the work to make up for what I did in the M and that what WH is doing is so much WORSE and destructive and that I do deserve a second chance provided AA and MB principles are part of the equation for a new marriage. And when I am in doubt, it's because Satan is grabbing at me and I am biting.
And that's where the FAITH and TRUST in G-d comes in. I don't know what is going to happen, I want to hurry it along, and today I don't get to control that, but somehow keep fighting the urge and place one foot in front of the other and know that G-d has my back, my front and each side as well as my soul because he really is the one who knows what is best for me.
One of the books I read said that when we go through something like this, we have to grieve the loss of the dreams and the good times too. I think that's where you are right now.
And you have really grown so much in your faith in God. That verse has been a lifeline to me. It took some time for me to understand that when God says "I know the plans I have for you..." that God never said that He was going to lay them out for us as a map. It's enough to know that HE knows the plans, and trust Him to do it.
I have a verse for you, for those times when you look at the past. It's a promise from God to the people of Israel for the many times they had wandered from His plan.
It's from Joel 2:23-27
"Be glad, O people of Zion, rejoice in the Lord your God, for he has given you the autumn rains in righteousness. He sends you abundant showers, both autumn and spring rains, as before. The threshing floors will be filled with grain; the vats will overflow with new wine and oil. "I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten-- the great locust and the young locust, the other locusts and the locust swarm-- my great army that I sent among you. You will have plenty to eat, until you are full, and you will praise the name of the Lord your God, who has worked wonders for you; never again will my people be shamed. Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am the Lord your God, and that there is no other; never again will my people be shamed.
It's His promise to you. Hang on to it during those times.
O/T-I think YS has a horse competition thing one day the week-end of the 19-20th.
One of the books I read said that when we go through something like this, we have to grieve the loss of the dreams and the good times too. I think that's where you are right now.
I get the dreams, but why the good times?
I like that scripture. Thank you.
You are one amazing person. I can't remember whose thread you just posted in about the whole piece of scripture, but I so trust you and your walk with G-d. You are what I hope to become like one day in your faith, knowledge and walk.
But that would also take way more learning effort on my part.
I have never posted to you before but I have followed your story from the beginning. I admire your faith in God and your strength. I just finished reading your "Thanks MEDC" thread and I would love to send you "The Case For Christ". It is a very interesting read and I happen to have several copies as I have bought them to lend out and now have them all back.
If I havn't heard from you by tomorrow noon, I will just delete my e-mail address. No offense will be taken. I have always thought that it is good to be informed on all sides of things, (:
I'm honored that you have kept up with my thread. It humbles me that people take an interest in my journey, it also helps.
Thank you for your kind words. I am not perfect, obviously and you know I struggle often, but I do have faith in G-d and the strength I have comes from him.
The Case for Christ is the same book that Mrs. Wondering recommended for me. I emailed you, but I accept your offer and will return it when I am done.
I don't know if I have talked about the finances, but here is a little update. I received in the mail the forms for child support and I am pretty sure spousal support. They wanted everything back by the 15th, but I got it in the mail today.
As I figured out my money I have around 70.00 to my name until the end of the month. In the past this would put me into orbit, but I am ok. I know G-d will provide what I need. And the truth be told, I can walk around town, I don't have to go to work, I can be lazy and hang at my timeshare - LOL (my apt with a pool), my kids are gone and food shouldn't cost me anything. So I am pretty good to go.
I know that there is money to come in and I just have to be patient it will arrive just as G-d needs it to.
The cool part tonight, my son came inside and said mom I did a mitzvah. He used a hebrew word to describe his actions. That is absolutely the coolest words to my ears. I'm so proud that my children have embraced their Judaism and live a life with it in there. I am proud of both my H and myself for this.
And then the last bit of news that has been having me worn out a little was I hadn't sold my season tickets to the Redskins. Well I had someone interested and he went and checked them out. He loves the seats and is going to buy them. YAHOO.... I can pay back my friend and not have that between us. I was getting a little concerned, but I had FAITH in G-d.
Fishing was pretty good this past Monday. I just took the fly rod out for some fun late in the day, but I had a good time and caught a ton of fish.
I played preacher for the day last Sunday at our church. It had been a while since I had delivered a message like that and I didn't get it done till after midnight that Saturday night/Sunday morning and considered changing my subject and scrapping my notes until just a few minutes before I began
My topic was "The Will of God."
I'll post my notes or a transcript on my musings thread when I get around to it.
I had to work until 6 pm Saturday, had the sermon to do on Sunday, had Monday off and found out Tuesday morning that our sales manager quit. We scrambled all day Tuesday to put together something for the NASCAR Fan Rally event Wednesday afternoon till 10 pm last night, and then had to catch up on my own work today from Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
Tomorrow night we have a bunch of people going to the NASCAR Nationwide Series race at Chicagoland Speedway (about a yen minute drive from my house.) I turned the free tickets down (Luxury suite tickets at that with a tour of the pits, garages and hanging out at the Speed Channel stage) because I had something planned for my small group from church before I knew about the tickets and don't want to make a bunch of people have to change their plans for me.
Besides, I spent enough time racing and hanging around race cars that I'm not easily impressed by that stuff.
AND I HATE crowds, so 70000 half in the bag folks milling around aimlessly is not my idea of fun anyway. I can see the race itself on TV.
Ok, I am going outside my comfort zone. Nascar? Anything to do with the racing team of Joe Gibbs? If so, what do you think about Tony Stewart leaving to have his own team?
You know how I will LOVE to read your sermon on the Will of G-d. How fitting for me. Why thank you for writing it.
What do you do with the fish you catch and what kind or kinds?
How did you like playing preacher?
Enough questions for now I suppose. It's late for you.
Ok, I am going outside my comfort zone. Nascar? Anything to do with the racing team of Joe Gibbs? If so, what do you think about Tony Stewart leaving to have his own team?
I think Smoke will be a pretty decent car owner in the long run, if he can maintain the funding long enough. I don't know if Joe and Tony have had problems or if Smoke just wants his own team, which I think is probably the case. He has really enjoyed being a race promoter, probably a lot more than he thought and I think it has made him reconsider having his own team, which he said he would not like for so many years.
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What do you do with the fish you catch and what kind or kinds?
I fish most actively for largemouth bass, but also catch panfish like blue gill, crappie etc. I make a trip or two per year for trout if my budget allows for it and mostly I release whatever I catch right away. The exception to that is that I will keep some panfish every once in a while to eat, especially when I go ice fishing in winter.
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How did you like playing preacher?
I enjoy it, but it takes quite a bit out of me. I shared the preaching duties at our church, about once per month, for around three years. The thing that gets scary is the responsibility of being the one to be teaching others about God. You had better not screw that up!
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You know how I will LOVE to read your sermon on the Will of G-d.
I'll try to post it this weekend.
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How fitting for me. Why thank you for writing it
I actually thought of you a few times while writing it...
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It's late for you.
Yep! Time to get to bed...at least it was time to get to bed an hour or two ago...
Just thought of letting you know some of the insightful thoughts that resonante with me, and for that, I thank you.
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....My M was so not what I wanted and I had a huge part in that. I know that we both loved each other deeply, and not always at the same times. But there was a basic, love, caring and genuine commitment to make our M work. We just didn't have "recovery" in the equation.
....I feel tremendous guilt over this, and not sure how to get passed it, other than learn to accept it and change my behavior by making sure I don't become that person again.
....My biggest wreckage is to my H, not WH and so that part of my recovery is left incomplete until G-d allows or not. Because I don't know what the future holds.
...I feel like I have done the work to make up for what I did in the M and that what WH is doing is so much WORSE and destructive and that I do deserve a second chance provided AA and MB principles are part of the equation for a new marriage.
....I don't know what is going to happen, I want to hurry it along, and today I don't get to control that, but somehow keep fighting the urge and place one foot in front of the other...
....putting 'one foot in front of the other' has been my motto for a while now...
...and I know, at an intellectual level, as a BS 'affected' and/or reacting to anything relating to WS... contact, indirect info. etc. may mean that 'I' am giving WS waaay too much power over me....yet at an emotional level... I have a hard time NOT doing it! ...and in so doing, at times, the long road ahead of me looks a little overwhelming...
...when under the 'illusion' that we are CHOOSING a path, one can at least FEEL up to the challenge and move along with confidence.... when under the 'illusion' that a path has been THRUST upon us, one may FEEL, at a BS-mode, NOT up to the challenge...and therefore, LESS confident...OFTEN times...
...the reality, I think, is somewhere in between...
...onr rarely totally CHOOSES/controls a path...just as one rarely totally LACKS control on an 'UNCHOSEN' path....
...again, as it often has been said, the journey is to find a way for the mind and heart to be in sync... in harmony... and in so doing...find peace in our hearts...which makes our EFFORTS all worthwhile...
I very much enjoyed posting to you, Queenie, and sorry for the length!
....putting 'one foot in front of the other' has been my motto for a while now...
I know it has, in fact I have used a lot of your quotes or mottos for a long time in my everyday life. Your wisdom and insightfulness helps me beyond words can express.
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...and I know, at an intellectual level, as a BS 'affected' and/or reacting to anything relating to WS... contact, indirect info. etc. may mean that 'I' am giving WS waaay too much power over me....yet at an emotional level... I have a hard time NOT doing it! ...and in so doing, at times, the long road ahead of me looks a little overwhelming...
That's why they say to do one day at a time, and I forget this one as well.
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...when under the 'illusion' that we are CHOOSING a path, one can at least FEEL up to the challenge and move along with confidence.... when under the 'illusion' that a path has been THRUST upon us, one may FEEL, at a BS-mode, NOT up to the challenge...and therefore, LESS confident...OFTEN times...
...the reality, I think, is somewhere in between...
...onr rarely totally CHOOSES/controls a path...just as one rarely totally LACKS control on an 'UNCHOSEN' path....
And we certainly have no control over what's happening or do we have to like it I guess. It's not what we want, but it keeps resonanting in my mind, it's what we need at this time, for today. And through seeking G-d, it's our path to somehow figure out or let the answer come to us as to why we need this.
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...again, as it often has been said, the journey is to find a way for the mind and heart to be in sync... in harmony... and in so doing...find peace in our hearts...which makes our EFFORTS all worthwhile...
I think we go through stages with our heart and mind in sync. I think that it's much easier when the WH stays completely out of our life. It does protect you from the sick person. Our mind is usually the first to understand, but our heart hurts and our mind reacts to our pain. Which is a normal thing, would you agree? If there is pain in the body, our mind finds it and reacts someway.
So finding peace in this journey can only help the pain, thus giving our mind a little break and it won't react. LOL- how simply that seems.
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I very much enjoyed posting to you, Queenie, and sorry for the length!
It is an honor to have you post to me. I considered you someone special in my life and look forward to supporting each other on this journey of ours.
It's hard to believe that anyone can have a problem with Joe, but I consider him G-d. Just kidding, but truly Joe Gibbs is someone who I admire because he walks his talk and always has. He is a man of G-d and his charisma is amazing to be around. Even though I have only been in his presence for seconds, I can just feel the sense of G-d and peace in his soul.
I want that for myself and am working very hard for that.
Well, last night was a very weird night. I'm sure many of you have felt my turmoil inside about what to do in terms of standing for my M or giving up. I have been praying diligently for answers from G-d. And in fact I don't post it often on here, but I have felt completely disconnected from him. Maybe it was the attention from men that I was allowing around me and the doubt creeping in or maybe it was the interactions such as they were with WH.
I have been praying hard for answers and guidance. During the day and for a few days I have been thinking that this would be a great time to start journaling again. I am able to put my words on paper and release them, I also believe that G-d somehow takes over in my writings at times and guides me.
I'll be honest, I have even been struggling with thinking what is the harm in going out on a date because I am so lonely for attention. And IRL, people think it's time for me to date and move on so I am getting encouragment from them.
I have also felt disconnected from the daily emails that I get from Charlene Cares. Didn't feel like the topics were applying or what I was looking for anymore. But WHAM...
Today's email is on journaling. And also the reminder about Moses, Aaron and Miriam.
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Are You Writing It Down?
"Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments." Exodus 34:27-28
Do you remember baby Moses being put in a basket by his mother who had such bold faith in her God that He would save her son from being put to death because of Pharaoh's orders to kill all baby boys? (Exodus 1:15-22) As God can do anything, He had Pharaoh's daughter find the basket with baby Moses in it. I hope you will think or ponder for a moment about the sovereignty of God and how He planned Moses's life from the very beginning. What are the chances that would happen?
My prayer is that you will come to know your Lord God the same way as Moses's mother did with bold faith! Do you believe in His power that He can orchestrate plans, strategies and miracles for your marriage or other problems that you are facing today? Today as part of your devotions read Exodus Chapter 2 as Pharaoh's daughter found the tiny Hebrew baby.
For those who have walked with me on this, you know that my children are all named Aaron, Moses and Miriam. I believe that my WH is Pharoah and his heart needs to be softened as well as the scales removed from his eyes.
Some may think I am nuts, but this is G-ds message and sign to me to keep going. I am not going to lie and tell you how hard this is day in and day out. I haven't prayed for patience because I don't want things in my life that teach me patience, but I am asking for strength, perserverance, and to do the will of G-d.
I don't feel so disconnected from G-d anymore and beyond anything else, that is what I NEED most today. My close, loving, intimate relationship with G-d. Without that I will become nothing.
Thanks for your reply, even though its your thread!
...I am doing much much better today...I have learned that the quicker I don't deny my pain...the sooner I get past it...
...and even though at the time these 'moments' happen I may feel like I am back at 'square one'...it doesn't take me long to realize that I am not really back at 'square one'... I am learning and applying the tools needed to bounce back faster.... to be less intimidated... to ACT vs. REACT... seek out support... better identify my needs.... enough so...to have to admit that it may be one step back but in reality it's compensated by two step forward!
...inspite of the slip ups, I do think I am getting better at taking things 'one day at a time'...
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It's not what we want, but it keeps resonanting in my mind, it's what we need at this time, for today.
...so I am going to adopt this one now and see what I can learn from taking this perspective... thanks again, Queenie, for helping out, even though I know you also have a lot on YOUR plate, too.
I'll be honest, I have even been struggling with thinking what is the harm in going out on a date because I am so lonely for attention. And IRL, people think it's time for me to date and move on so I am getting encouragment from them.
The people IRL that are your friends must not share your religious beliefs. Is it wise to spend time with such people. My friends did not encourage me to date, knowing that I was married, knowing that I would have been committing ADULTERY to do so. They would have been APPALLED if I did that, knowing who I am and what I believe in, just as APPALLED as they were at my husband. They thought of his actions as being EVIL and encouraged me not to follow his route.
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I have also felt disconnected from the daily emails that I get from Charlene Cares. Didn't feel like the topics were applying or what I was looking for anymore. But WHAM...
Didn't you and I speak recently about this SELF-DESTRUCTIVE tendency when you are heading in the RIGHT DIRECTION...into the light... pulling you back into the DARKNESS...
I DON'T GET THIS ABOUT YOU....
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I am not going to lie and tell you how hard this is day in and day out.
Why do you think this is particularly hard for you, Queenie?
It's been YEARS since my H's affair. I continue to HEAL. I'll never be the same person. I think, as is understandable, you want to take the easy way out. There is NO EASY WAY OUT. You have to go through the FIRE.
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My close, loving, intimate relationship with G-d. Without that I will become nothing.
Without that, THE EVIL FORCES will try to make claims on you.
I'll be honest, I have even been struggling with thinking what is the harm in going out on a date because I am so lonely for attention. And IRL, people think it's time for me to date and move on so I am getting encouragment from them.
...this caught my eye...I know it's tempting...I encourage you to wait, Queenie... only because I find the need to respect oneself is usually greater than the need to get attention....
....the aim is not to compromise one for the other....but to place ourselves is a situation where we can have both! ....and that can only happen if you take the plan D path...
...and even though at the time these 'moments' happen I may feel like I am back at 'square one'...it doesn't take me long to realize that I am not really back at 'square one'... I am learning and applying the tools needed to bounce back faster.... to be less intimidated... to ACT vs. REACT... seek out support... better identify my needs.... enough so...to have to admit that it may be one step back but in reality it's compensated by two step forward!
...inspite of the slip ups, I do think I am getting better at taking things 'one day at a time'...
You and I can try and tell ourselves we are back at square one, but deep down we know we can never be back at square one. Why? Because we have been willing to do the work all along to learn and keep moving forward. We have worked through all the pain and continue to do so. Sometimes head on, alot of time I wallow in my self pity, but still we keep going on one foot in front of the other.
We are survivors. We will survive one day.
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thanks again, Queenie, for helping out, even though I know you also have a lot on YOUR plate, too.
The best way to handle what's on MY plate is to leave it at G-ds door and help someone else.
That's the 12th step in AA. To carry this message to alcoholics and practice these principles in all our affairs.
We are learning so much, and one day even now, you and I are called upon by G-d to help newbies on here and vets as well. We are all in this together, we share our lives, our bonds and our commitment to recovery together. I could NEVER have too much on my plate for you or anyone else in life. That would not be what G-d needs from me.
The people IRL that are your friends must not share your religious beliefs.
Oh well really don't want to go there. I have felt completely disconnected from my temple b/c they want me to D my H and move on. They believe I can do so much better.
I could maybe count one person who supports this walk with me, the rest think I am absolutely nuts. And so that's why I feel so alone at times. I feel like I have to isolate myself and when I do so, then the alcoholic mind in me takes over. Its a double edge sword.
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Didn't you and I speak recently about this SELF-DESTRUCTIVE tendency when you are heading in the RIGHT DIRECTION...into the light... pulling you back into the DARKNESS...I DON'T GET THIS ABOUT YOU....
Mimi, this is what the alcoholic mind does. My mind is out to destroy me. Yes, we did speak about it, and I am working hard to learn how to recognize it before it takes hold. But I can't talk to my sponsor and so it the thoughts stay in my head which is the last place for it to be. I'm really trying.
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There is NO EASY WAY OUT. You have to go through the FIRE.
It's a pretty big FIRE I would say. LOL
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Without that, THE EVIL FORCES will try to make claims on you.
And all this doubt, my sick mind allow for that to be a very easy breeding ground.
Oh well really don't want to go there. I have felt completely disconnected from my temple b/c they want me to D my H and move on. They believe I can do so much better.
So aren't the TEN COMMANDMENTS part of your religious beliefs? I DO WANT TO GO THERE. Maybe you need to be disconnected from them.
Seems like a MAJOR GOAL should be to find a REAL support group.
....the aim is not to compromise one for the other....but to place ourselves is a situation where we can have both! ....and that can only happen if you take the plan D path...
Your right and I am so not able to take the plan D path. I don't believe that's what G-d wants me to do. The impatient imperfect human being wants relief NOW. And that's the alcoholic mind at work.
Like you Luna, I just have to keep walking, be open to what's happening and just take each day at a time.
But beyond all else, that doesn't mean that I don't have to let WH go. I have to protect myself from him and heal myself completely. G-d has his back and is doing quite nicely.
I need to just get the heck out of the way and let him work on Paroah. I think I should name WH - Pharoah. LOL It would help to remind me what I am really up against here.
It's so easy for this simple mind to get lost in the battle instead of looking at the end of the goal which is G-ds plan for me.
Oh well really don't want to go there. I have felt completely disconnected from my temple b/c they want me to D my H and move on. They believe I can do so much better.
So aren't the TEN COMMANDMENTS part of your religious beliefs? I DO WANT TO GO THERE. Maybe you need to be disconnected from them.
Seems like a MAJOR GOAL should be to find a REAL support group.
OK let's go there. My temple is reform. Kind of pick and choose as you go. I can't afford to go to a large temple because I am so broke. And to attend a temple you have to belong to it pretty much. I don't know many Jews who stand for M and that is what was a MAJOR frustration for me in the beginning because I only found release and support in Christians on this one topic.
Hence, my willingness to look into becoming Christian.
I am all for finding a REAL support group that will walk through this with me. What suggestions do you have?
I have a friend who is a MESSIANIC JEW. Have you heard of that? He was on CBN. Want me to post his video here for you? Or am I stepping out of bounds? HE is AMAZING! He's in OUR BUSINESS now.
I have a friend who is a MESSIANIC JEW. Have you heard of that? He was on CBN. Want me to post his video here for you? Or am I stepping out of bounds? HE is AMAZING! He's in OUR BUSINESS now.
Mimi, I would be interested in watching it, if you do not mind.
I was thinking that maybe it was my calling to start my own support group on this. What do you think?
Mimi I am so Jewish through and through. For just ME, I don't believe in Jesus as the son of G-d. I have tried and I just can't. I can't lie to myself on this or I will be lost. My journey is about trusting G-d, not finding a new religion. I just get caught up in the day to day stuff of life and get overwhelmed with it all. Now maybe if I became more proactive in living a Jewish life, by daily prayers, celebrating shabbat, absorbing myself in Jewish causes, etc, I will find some peace. I don't know.
What is so frustrating to me is that I can't afford to go to any temple I want and there for find support in standing for my M.
Ironically, this might just be something that I need to keep with us on here and G-d. I don't know.
Oh well really don't want to go there. I have felt completely disconnected from my temple b/c they want me to D my H and move on. They believe I can do so much better.
So aren't the TEN COMMANDMENTS part of your religious beliefs? I DO WANT TO GO THERE. Maybe you need to be disconnected from them.
Seems like a MAJOR GOAL should be to find a REAL support group.
OK let's go there. My temple is reform. Kind of pick and choose as you go. I can't afford to go to a large temple because I am so broke. And to attend a temple you have to belong to it pretty much. I don't know many Jews who stand for M and that is what was a MAJOR frustration for me in the beginning because I only found release and support in Christians on this one topic.
Hence, my willingness to look into becoming Christian.
I am all for finding a REAL support group that will walk through this with me. What suggestions do you have?
I do not know alot of Jews who are against M. I too belong to a reform temple. And they are strong on being a family and being one. I hope you do not loose faith QN. I enjoy reading your journey and how you have come thru and going thru all of this.
I have only started to learn the ways and I need to be stronger and start setting them in my home.
For just ME, I don't believe in Jesus as the son of G-d. I have tried and I just can't.
And I am CHRISTIAN through and through. We probably need to steer clear of this in our talks with each other..
Gary, considers himself JEWISH through and through but also loves JESUS whom he explains as being JEWISH...I love talking to him..He is so SPIRITUAL...
And I am CHRISTIAN through and through. We probably need to steer clear of this in our talks with each other..
I think we have done an amazing job of respecting each other on this point. I value and treasure your walk as well as take comfort in the way you talk to me about your faith. I just insert G-d at various times and keep moving forward. Because in the end, we all have one G-d and are all G-ds children.
Now, spirituality is another issue. My life can only be enhanced by listening and learning from someone who is spiritual in their walk. I also wouldn't be opposed to hearing Gary on how he has this play in his life. So, I would love to hear or listen to him.
Pretty, I didn't know you were Jewish. Shabbat Shalom. My temple is not a normal temple. It's been my experience that they support the right to choose life versus what is G-ds word life.
Unfortantly I have not done my share and gone to temple in a few months. I have to pay my membership fee and have not been able to. And I am ashamed and scared to go back at the moment. No they wont jump on me but I am not doing my share for my place of worship. So that brings me to this moment. I am doing some heavy thinking on alot of things and have yet to share with DH on them. I want to pay them there share. They have given us open door to come back and be a part of the family but will not be able to join in membership functions. I can deal with that since we all have to lay in our beds that we make.
As for my house hold. I work night shifts so I am not home to do Shabbat and I have been learning off of websites and reading how to teach the children. I lack knowledge and I am bad in not putting time into what I believe. I was actually going to ask you for some help *laughing* and to get your Challah recipe!
Where my temple certainly has it's "moral" faults, accepting people on what they can pay has NEVER been one of them. My temple is called Bet Chaverim - House of Friends and we accept people no matter what. We actually are just a volunteer temple, a part time rabbi, and very small.
But I know how the bigger temples run and it makes it very hard to participate in a Jewish life when you can't attend services because of money.
May I ask where your temple is? Do you have a sisterhood that you could belong to? I used to be the area director for Woman of Reform Judaism in the PNW, but sadly I couldn't fulfill my duties and maintain life. I know sisterhoods can be a HUGE support system and would love to help.
My sisters want to be a help, they just don't know how or understand how I can't just walk away from my M. They just want me to be happy and they see they hurt inside of me. They are used to the healthier Queenie, not this one who is just a baby learning to walk.
I'm so proud of you for teaching your children. I didn't always think it went in or was important to my children, but then when I sit in temple and they sing next to me in hebrew or my son tells me he performed a mitzvah, my heart just screams for joy on what my H and I did together. Because we did this part of our life together.
I have to locate my challah recipe. I got it from my previous rabbi. I'll email her today if I don't have it.
So tell me how much Judaism did you have growing up?
They do have a sisterhood and again the money factor comes into play.
Everyone there is nice and we started to make friends when we went. Even asked other members if they can help teach us at home. But no one did.
My 5 yr old used to ask if we were going to Hebrew school meaning to service on fridays. It broke my heart to tell him no but he sings Shabbat Shalom at home and brings a smile to my face.
And H has learned Hebrew *I still do not know how to talk hebrew*.
My great grandfather and great grandmother came from Poland. Unfortantly my mother never taught me anything at home but told me Im jewish and so is her family. I have one Aunt that did start to bring her family up the jewish ways but I dont know if she still is doing it. I have reconnected with family that live in New Jersey and Arizona and they are more conservative then I am. I havent talked to Jerry in a long time. I think its time to talk to him again.
Its hare to reconnect when you either do not know which way you are going or where to go...lol
Temple Beth El in San Antonion is one of my affliates. Let me see what I can do for help on that end.
As for you and me, I would happy to teach you or be there for you as you discover things. I taught myself everything I know and watched my children learn.
Is your husband Jewish?
Do you work on Saturdays?
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Its hare to reconnect when you either do not know which way you are going or where to go...lol
Start talking to G-d and asking him for his guidance on where you can go for help or where to turn next. I am not kidding, I talk to G-d all throughout the day and ask him for all his answers to my problems. He is my confidant, my protector.
I could maybe count one person who supports this walk with me, the rest think I am absolutely nuts. And so that's why I feel so alone at times.
...many around me seem to think that Plan B, NC with WS, too much of a drastic measure... often interpreted as a means to 'deny' or not 'accept' the situation and that I am just being 'unflexible'...
I just say that it's what I think I need to help me in my personal recovery... and work hard at not letting their comments get to me too much and don't turn into self-doubt...and, yes, not feeling understood can add to a BS's sense of loneliness... and which is why the support we get on the MB Board is sooo beneficial....
Start talking to G-d and asking him for his guidance on where you can go for help or where to turn next. I am not kidding, I talk to G-d all throughout the day and ask him for all his answers to my problems. He is my confidant, my protector
2 Chronicles 15:2 The LORD is with you when you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you,
Psalm 14:2 The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. (Also exactly the same passage in Ps 53:2)
Psalm 119:10 I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.
Psalm 70:4 But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation always say, "Let God be exalted!"
Psalm 5:11-12 11 But let all who take refuge in you rejoice; let them sing joyful praises forever. Spread your protection over them, that all who love your name may be filled with joy. 12 For you bless the godly, O Lord; you surround them with your shield of love.
Deuteronomy 6 1 These are the commands, decrees and laws the LORD your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, 2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the LORD your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life. 3 Hear, O Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, promised you.
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
10 When the LORD your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the LORD, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. 16 Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah. 17 Be sure to keep the commands of the LORD your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you. 18 Do what is right and good in the LORD's sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land that the LORD promised on oath to your forefathers, 19 thrusting out all your enemies before you, as the LORD said.
20 In the future, when your son asks you, "What is the meaning of the stipulations, decrees and laws the LORD our God has commanded you?" 21 tell him: "We were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. 22 Before our eyes the LORD sent miraculous signs and wonders—great and terrible—upon Egypt and Pharaoh and his whole household. 23 But he brought us out from there to bring us in and give us the land that he promised on oath to our forefathers. 24 The LORD commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the LORD our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. 25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness."
Joshua 1:7-9 7 Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. 8 Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. 9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go."
Any of that help?
Queenie, I'm going to try to post my notes from my sermon last weekend sometime tomorrow. I'll probably do it on my musings thread.
I would love for you to share what you have learned!
No my husbands not jewish. He found it interesting that I am. He grew up going to a Catholic church, but never found his way. I think he finds him way more with the jewish beliefs.
I am trying very hard to get Saturdays off. My boss gave me this coming saturday off but told me not to get used to it. Kinda upsets me he said that comment at the same time I loose time with my family as the work schedule around here is crazy between DH and I.
When going to service I felt a great connection forming. I want to feel that again. I also saw I carried myself better. Kinda wierd to say that.
Because I have not put effort we have just barely touched the surface. We have honored passover and Haunaka. All my children received Hebrew names, I even have mine. We have told the stories Moshe freeing the Jews and the trials set forth in Egypt. We have said the blessings and have even lit the candles for Shabbat. But I want to learn more. And be more and do right by G-d.
There is so much to learn and observe that the message here is to totally keep it simple. You are doing great and this actually is a perfect time for you with High Holidays coming up.
Hear, Oh Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One. Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.
What you are doing with your kids is perfect. I started so simple because I didn't know ANYTHING. I swore my mother made pork and sauerkraut for Yom Kippur.
Well actually his name is Ethan Moshe hebrew name is Ami Moshe.
Aaron Samel american name is Aric Steven
Bethanee Rahel is Sara Razil
While I was looking for a girl hebrew name I came across Ethans version in hebrew and its E-tan I love the fact I can call the kids by either names and they answer to me thats cute. sorry.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, he has a very good summary of reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.
Generally he notes that disasters are only inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. He says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.
He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.
He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon: • Intervention of reality • Guilt • Disparity of sacrifice • Expectations • General distrust of marriage • Distrust of affairee • Divided loyalties • The nature of infidels • The nature of affairees • Romance • Scapegoating the betrayed • Unshared history
Out of 100 couples, (Pittman’s sample in his book private lies) He said 50% of affairs couples divorced. But, only 12% (12) actually married OP. And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9 Thus only 3 married betrayers are left
These are the defects he lists for marriages between the spouse and the OP.
1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a swithc that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.
2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.
3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.
4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.
5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.
6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and peope who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.
7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.
8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.
9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.
10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have alredy demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.
11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.
12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.
Saw this on the other thread. I do believe it is true, however I think it just takes longer in some cases. I don't believe for a second that the individuals in affairages are any happier than they were in their M. I just think some of them stay together rather than admit they were wrong. That must be those 3 out of the 100.....
I'll log onto work and get the phone number from you.
So, WH has been quite active today. He is out there stirring up drama bringing my daughter into it.
WH has changed the password on our cell phone family account. Called my DD and told her that if I didn't go down and put the account in my name he was shutting the phones off.
She is miss drama queen and just got back a cell phone so she is freaking on me. I have to admit at first I was hurt that he would do this, but heck why not. He seems to have this need to stir up drama or reinforce that our M is over, blah blah.
Ironically, why now? Well, he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. I called the company and the account is in his name, so he will therefore be responsible for the bill in it's entirety plus any early cancellation fees. My name isn't anywhere near there. So it would cost him 175.00 per at least 4 phones, maybe 5.
They will continue to go after him b/c I won't pay the bill. And I am certainly not going to react to his threat that if I don't do it by Friday.
So, am I off the mark here on what I am thinking, let him do it. Let him absorb the bill. Let him be responsible for setting off his daughter in a frenzy and putting her in the middle to get ahold of me.
What cha think?
One more notworthy thing. I have stepped up my praying for G-d to keep bringing him the plagues. Could it possibly be working? I have been praying day and night for G-d to bring WH down and have WH reach out to G-d for a relationship. Can you please help me keep the prayers up?
let him do it. Let him absorb the bill. Let him be responsible for setting off his daughter in a frenzy and putting her in the middle to get ahold of me.
EXACTLY..HE MUST SUFFER...
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I have stepped up my praying for G-d to keep bringing him the plagues. I have been praying day and night for G-d to bring WH down
I woke up with a really bad headache took some tylenol went back to sleep till it was noon and spent an hr with the family *I know not long at all* Then off to work.
I need to find another job. I hate working these hrs and well thats a whole different story!
I had an A in 99. I made my way back in "forcefully" his life. I came back pregnante with OM child. But broke all contact with OM even when it came to decided the OC future. I gave the OC up for adoption *its open and she lives in Mississippi*. During my A and coming back to the M. DH had a RA and lied to me about it. Till 2007. He came clean with his RA. A few months later came clean with his porn addiction, thanks to MB. I came to MB with the porn addiction and the discovery of the RA to see what he kept telling me months of why he was on here.
He is RMX.
Because of such a late night he made me a small pizza!!
I started with the protein shakes and a breakfast bar!
The mix for the protien is like 13.00 dollars at Walmart. When looking at bars you wanna look at the protien *higher the better* but keep eye of the sugars and to high of carbs.
Do that twice a day with a snack between and a good dinner that is healthy!
I need to follow it again. But DH lost alot of weight that way and I follwed behind him. But have gained it back since then.
Walking is good. If it wasnt so darn hot here I would do it! I think maybe tomorrow we might go to the pool. Thats a good way too.
You gals may have already heard about it, but if you haven't, you should visit Dotti's Weight Loss Zone. It is a wonderful resource! Most people there are doing Weight Watcher, but anyone focused on weight/health management can find helpful information there. The message board offers support by age group, recipes, exercise info, weight loss challenges, success tips, and more.
I'm actually doing pretty good. I got to have a long chat with someone from here on the phone today. She has an amazing walk and her faith in G-d is awesome.
I don't feel the internal struggling continuing because I have just accepted I love my H, I want my M, I get that I have to build a new life and that he is insane today. I'm finding peace understanding that during this time while he is gone I have to continue my relationship with G-d and becoming the woman he envisions for me.
So, instead of delaying working on me and maybe ultimately delaying my H coming home, I surrender and began reading Torah today and am going to write in a little while..
I got up with the kids today and we all cleaned up the garage. *It needed to be done*
Afterwards we straightend up the house.We have it on the market and we can get that call any moment for a showing. Made a roast with veggies for dinner and visited my mom for a moment.
I really do not know where the day went.
As for you.
I am glad you had a wonderful chat with someone! Its great to be able to talk with someone and have a connection. Im glad you have overcome the internal struggling. And yes having a connection with G-d in any situation is wonderful.
I have been reading many sites today on how to help me in the home with the children. *If I can get the continuing fighting to stop first*
I cant wait to read what you read today. I have also been reading Marks postings. And reading posts off an on today.
If you want some amazing readings, my thread where Mark gives me his wisdom is absolutely comforting and to the point.
He has helped me so much stay on track and search for G-d during this time.
What I am doing, by waiting for my H to come home is a crap shoot game. I am being asked to walk with G-d, walk in FAITH and have ABSOLUTE TRUST in him.
For my own piece of mind and life there is NO OTHER way for me. Not if I want to survive and become whole again.
The option to absolutely say I'm done isn't today and so I seek G-d for guidance on how to walk today.
That's all I can do.
You dont need the kids to stop fighting to begin to teaching them stuff. Do you talk to G-d throughout the day?
Just start out talking to him like you would any other person.
In Judaism, we have a direct link to G-d, we don't need to do anything special to talk to him. Just open up our hearts and begin speaking. I do it in my head sometimes and out loud a lot of times.
I have a favor.... for everyone. Please keep praying for G-d to bring my WH down to rock bottom. I have to stay out of the drama, not be involved, but what I can do is pray and the more people I can get to pray for his downfall, it can only help.
I really believe this is my path and I believe G-d needs our help to bring him down together. Because it's only through bringing him down and humbling him that WH will reach for G-d. And no matter what, his peace in his soul is what is so important to me.
Pretty, my G-d is very personal to me, it's what I create. You don't have to have a set way of doing anything or thinking of him in anyway. It's what you want it to be. It's your relationship with him and that's what he is looking for. A relationship during all the times, not just good or bad.
Pretty, my G-d is very personal to me, it's what I create. You don't have to have a set way of doing anything or thinking of him in anyway. It's what you want it to be. It's your relationship with him and that's what he is looking for. A relationship during all the times, not just good or bad.
I agree with you that a persons relationship with G-d is what one creats. And that he should be sought out in good and bad times just not in times of needs.
DH asked me why I started coming back to MB *he doesnt mind me on here* I think he fears something is wrong. Nothings going on that shouldnt be! I just want to better us. I have been neglectful in some of his EN's. I think thats why Im really here and I want to work on them. I was reading my posts when I first started here and we have come a long way. But yet a long road to still travel.
You know, life is about the journey. It's not a destination.
I think it's awesome that you are coming back on here for a refresher. That's what will truly begin to move your M forward into complete recovery when you recognize that you aren't doing something and you change it.
In Judaism, they call that true Teshuvah. It's the highest form of change. Be proud of yourself.
I am a child of G-d just like anyone else. He happens to be working a lot out in me and I am very grateful that I am willing to go to any lengths to have that come to fruition. I have so long to go, but I feel like i am at peace and on the right track for some reasons.
Probably because I am not swimming upstream on the river. Like my AA sponsor suggests.
I'm working very hard to stay on the right path. It's just hard to know which was to go.
But how fitting that this morning, the email from Charlene Cares is about the directions in life and Torah. Just reading that book daily will help me keep on my path. I just have to keep trusting G-d.
For me there is no other way.
Last night I was the speaker person at the AA meeting. Even though I didn't get into the goory details, I myself am able to remember that absolute insanity of my life and I don't EVER want to go back to that place.
I have really been in a weird funk this morning. I just realized that I had two very strong days with G-d and my propensity to self-destruct is rearing it's ugly head.
My tendency is to isolate and I just called up a friend of mine and cancelled spending the day with her so I could just be in my head at the pool.
I'm thinking this isn't such a great place to be?
Maybe I will call her back and fight for myself and fight to get out of this funk by doing something different and not self-destructing myself.
Get up and drag yourself into the company of a friend....sometimes, when I think too much, I get into a funk....nitpick my faults. Go out and review your assets - preferably with a friend.
So, Queenie, what are your strong points you want to embrace?
And as long as you just keep bettering yourself and have family, and G-d beside you, you will be just fine.
Notice.....
that was bettering
not battering
I know I tend to replay and replay my negative self-talk tapes. It's hard for me to replay the positive ones. So few people are around for me to process those with.
I hope you called your friend back to see if its not to late. Its always to good to get out and be with others.
Isolating yourself is not going to help anything at all. I know you know that. So act upon it. I know there will be days you will not want to do anything at all. And there are going to be those days you dont want to but know you have too.
If your in a funk do u think being alone will really help?
So, Queenie, what are your strong points you want to embrace?
My love of life, my capacity to love someone even under the hardest of circumstances, my sense of humor, my desire to keep learning even when I'm tired and my willingness to absolutely TRUST G-d.
I did call my friend back, and told her that isolating wasn't a good idea for me, so we made plans to hook up, but then about an hour later my other friend called and wanted to come over to my pool and talk to me.
I called my other friend and actually during that time she had things come up where getting together wasn't the best of timing for either of us. So we made plans to get together next week.
I sat at the pool for awhile, then one friend showed up and then another friend who has been telling me a story for awhile about her girlfriend and H splitting up. From the moment she started talking I told her that friend was having an A. She didn't believe me. Guess what, it was totally true for over a year. The wayward friend asked my friend if she should give her M another try and I was so angry by my friends response I wanted to slap her. She told her to just make sure the kids were happy. OH MY G-D.... I couldn't believe it.
So I spoke up and gave her an earful that she really didn't want to hear, but I told her that a family is being destroyed because people are standing up for what is right and that is so wrong. She wasn't happy with me, and then we really got into a heavy discussion about addictions, which she doesn't buy at all.
About that time, my blood sugar started dropping so I went to get some cheese and when I got back my friend was there.
I want to just shout from the roof top the insanity of this girls life and the damage she is causing, but no one wants to listen.
DD called me earlier to discuss the phone. I told her to ignore her dad and trust G-d. Hung up. She called me AGAIN this evening and told me what WH has been up to and how he has been screwing around with the account. I very matter of fact told DD, ignore him, I have no control over what he does, but that I wasn't going to put the bill in my name. Again, I told her that I loved her dad very much and was fighting for my M and our family. She is so frustrated and in drama mode. I can't fix this because it would give my hand away and I'm not willing to do that for anyone. Not when so much is on the line.
I have continued to step up my prayers for G-d to bring WH down and destroy him. I can only hope things are happening, but then again. I somehow need to learn from Bugs and just leave it alone and act where I need to.
I did the stupidest thing today. And my finger hurts. I have had fake nails for a few months now. But I can't afford them and they needed to come off. Well I should have waited a little longer, anyways, I pulled off the baby one and in the process tore off half of my baby finger nail bed.
OUCH! I haven't ever had fake nails, but I've had natural ones break off past the quick and know how painful that is. Hey, my mom swears by the beauty college for inexpensive pampering. If you have one close, maybe you should visit them to get the rest removed or replaced.
Glad you got the CD and are enjoying it. Did you recognize the second one as the song I shared the first time I posted to you? It makes me happy when I hear it.
I don't get it via e-mail. It is a monthly booklet that has a devotional for each day. I can start sending it to you via snail mail though. You might be a few days behind by the time it gets to you, but you can go back to the missed days while you are waiting for the new to come.
I'll be happy to send it to you. I'll send August's as soon as it comes out.
If you feel under attack, I wish you would check your library and see if they have a book by Beth Moore called "Get out of that Pit". She is a christian, but I really believe you would find some valuable lessons to identify with in that particular writing.
Ok, I will check it out and see if they have the book.
I'm fighting by seeking G-ds protection and keeping Torah close, saying lots of prayers, but don't you just get that feeling when something has been stepped up.
I understand what you are saying. I look at that as a good sign in some respects. I know it is difficult to experience, but Satan likes to turn up the heat on the faithful. Think of poor Job.
Hi there Pretty, thanks for checking in and me and you too Luna for stopping by and saying hi.
Today actually has been a very strong day. I spent the first part of the morning helping my friend and im'g my DD back and forth. Then went into Seattle and began preparations for working on a project with Jewish Family Services on bringing a forum for recovery to this area in September.
Then went to my 2nd job, finished early and went back to JFS for an AA meeting.
I reconnected with a girlfriend of mine and we talked about me coming back to Temple. I'm not ready yet, but it was nice to hear I am missed. I really called her to check up on some people who are having family medical issues.
I feel like Satan is giving me a rest today. My boss suggested that while I am stepping up my prayers for G-d to bring WH down, I also include protecting me from Satan.
How are you? How was work? What' the weather like?
Today was long. I was up at 5am to go to work. Didnt leave there till about 330p or so. Then went and go the kids. Came home and did dinner. DH is out of town till later this week so Im going solo here for a bit but it will be alright
I have been kinda under the weather and I do not know if its what I thought was wrong lately or if its just this stupid weather its self. I have been getting headaches and sore tummy But the show must go on!!!
I have to work from 10a to 6p other then that nothing to big. No I dont rest. Im trying to get days off at work too but I dont know whats going on right now with that.
Hopefully the weather will be nice and I can spend it at the pool. I have an AA meeting that I can walk to tomorrow. I sure hope I hear something soon about the child and spousal support.
This BROKE deal isn't fun. But I am doing it and fortunately there is milk, cheese, taco fixings, and a few other items here to eat. Just boring.
Reminder of college days.
I'm praying hard for G-d to allow me as strong a day tomorrow as today was, though my mood has shifted a bit. I think I need to go pray and keep on praying for more protection and get to sleep.
I can go downhill fast when I think of how much is in front of me. Don't want to go there.
I can go downhill fast when I think of how much is in front of me. Don't want to go there.
Hey there Queenie.. haven't had a chance to stay up to date on everything, but I wanted to touch on this real quick.
I think regardless of our circumstances, even when there is someone at home to share our lives with, looking too far into the future can be a source of endless worrying.
Just remember, and I know you know.. God will ALWAYS provide you with what you need. He is eternally faithful to you, and will never turn away from you.
Remember that today is the day you have, yesterday is gone, and tomorrow will come all on its own. Today is a precious gift.. that's why we call it the 'present'
Like James, I'm not as up to date as usual on your thread, but wanted to stop by to lend a bit of support and say Hello!
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I feel like Satan is giving me a rest today. My boss suggested that while I am stepping up my prayers for G-d to bring WH down, I also include protecting me from Satan.
This is a good suggestion. I hope your desire to return to Temple comes along,,,obviously there are people there that care for you and want to help support you. I have found that even though I'm not really involved in activies outside of regular service and Sunday School class, attending church has helped me a great deal - more than I ever imagined it would. As God's people, we are called to spend time together and there are benefits to be found in that. I'm not pressuring, just wanted to point out those things for your consideration.
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This BROKE deal isn't fun. But I am doing it and fortunately there is milk, cheese, taco fixings, and a few other items here to eat. Just boring.
Yes, it can be 'boring', but having nothing would be a whole lot worse, wouldn't it? I understand & am not downplaying how difficult it is when finances are so tight because of the selfish WS. That stinks and is NOT right.
But, let me also remind you to include prayers of THANKS to God for providing. It is important to be thankful for all we have, even when it's just a little. When we give Him proper thanks for even the small things, that is when we place ourselves in a position of allowing Him to give even more.
This is the prayer Ladybugs and I pray now each night. We thank God for every day and for all of His wonderful blessings - even when that particular day may have been not so 'perfect' in our eyes.
But, let me also remind you to include prayers of THANKS to God for providing. It is important to be thankful for all we have, even when it's just a little. When we give Him proper thanks for even the small things, that is when we place ourselves in a position of allowing Him to give even more.
Yes. Just imagine how we as parents feel when our children thank us for the little things or just tell us that they love us. How it makes us feel. When my kids do that, it just makes me want to do more for them. I imagine God is like that. Like a parent.
Queenie, if things get really bad financially, I don't know about where you live, but in Dallas they have a food bank sponsored by the city as well as many churches around here have them (with no strings attached!). There is nothing wrong with asking for a little help when you need it until your money comes through. I'm sure they'd love to help a single mom struggling to provide for her family. That's why they're there.
Hi James, one day at a time, but it was close to midnight.... LOL, but I get your point, truly.
Bugs,
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We thank God for every day and for all of His wonderful blessings - even when that particular day may have been not so 'perfect' in our eyes
You know I could do this so much better. I thank him all the time throughout the day but maybe I don't do it enough or humbling enough to thank him for the small stuff. What an honest observation for me, thank you.
I really am doing ok financially, I have a little over a 1/4 tank of gas, I have food in my house - though not exciting, and all but one car payment bill is paid.
I was most worried about how I was going to pay for the cell phone, but that seems to be possibly working itself out.
I will keep my options open for asking for help, but I think that there are other people hurting way more than me and this is good for me to just learn to do without. I think G-d needs me to be in this place.....
I really want to learn all the lessons G-d puts in front of me. He is building character and other good qualities that will hopefully one day bless my M.
But I am not proud enough not to ask for help if it gets really bad.
Oh and Say, I emailed you my address. I apologize for not getting that completed and thank you for following up with me.
Stay on top of those folks like Cinders is telling you! Push the process!
Also, really quick before my bathtub overflows,,,
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I was most worried about how I was going to pay for the cell phone, but that seems to be possibly working itself out.
This is what I was talking about. Thanks for what we have. FAITH in HIS ability to deal with anything. His ability to PROVIDE for us,,,,,,,,even when WE don't see how it could possbily happen.
I know it's in one of the Lion King movies, so I almost feel silly saying it, but it is so true - - Look BEYOND what you SEE.
When we have faith in Him it means believing that no matter what the circumstance we SEE with our eyes & our own understanding, we Trust that HE is working beyond that and is MORE than capable.
Queenie, I have worked w/ mass numbers of people in need - who needed my help before they could pay their bills or go to the grocery, I can assure you that most of the people who deal w/ child support are very conscientious. They have lots of technical stuff they have to do. Lots of people who call and whine or call and beg or call and are panicking. There have been many times when it pained me to not be able to relieve their critical need. But, they are probably trying hard to provide good service in a timely manner.
However, sometimes a call helps and sometimes it doesn't. But, when you call, try to be pleasant. People are usually not happy when they call the child support bureau.
Thanks for checking in. Actually I am doing ok. The Plan B thread that was going around shook me up abit and I lost hope for a little while, but I have been spending time with my sponsor and working through the last steps.
I am into the 12th Step... YAHOO..... I've almost completed my steps and will be beginning the steps through alanon. Can't wait.
No pool for me the last two days. I have walked yesterday and today and I was so tired this morning, we walked all around the lake, I fell back asleep.
I am restless tonight, not sure why, but logged onto work and this is what I had....
Time =====
Time, whose tooth gnaws away at everything else, is powerless against truth.
~Thomas Huxley~
I pray that the truth of the WH's world come crashing down on him in G-ds time and that our family be healed because we can through G-ds will and miracles. And may that be G-d's will and match my own desires.
David prays that his enemies be shamed and humiliated for their shaming him and reveling in his troubles. Then the righteous will rejoice, and chant songs and praises always.
1. For the Conductor, by David, to remind. 2. O G-d, [come] to rescue me; O Lord, hurry to my aid. 3. Let those who seek my life be shamed and disgraced; let those who wish me harm retreat and be humiliated. 4. Let those who say, "Aha! Aha!" be turned back in return for their shaming [me]. 5. Let all who seek You rejoice and delight in You, and let those who love Your deliverance say always, "May G-d be exalted!” 6. But I am poor and needy; hurry to me, O God! You are my help and deliverer; O G-d, do not delay!
(I was reading and when I came unto this entry you came to mind about your WH)
This from Solomon at the dedication of the temple...
"Praise be to the LORD, who has given rest to his people Israel just as he promised. Not one word has failed of all the good promises he gave through his servant Moses. May the LORD our God be with us as he was with our fathers; may he never leave us nor forsake us. May he turn our hearts to him, to walk in all his ways and to keep the commands, decrees and regulations he gave our fathers. And may these words of mine, which I have prayed before the LORD, be near to the LORD our God day and night, that he may uphold the cause of his servant and the cause of his people Israel according to each day's need, so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other. But your hearts must be fully committed to the LORD our God, to live by his decrees and obey his commands..."
I would like to dissect the quote I posted earlier a bit...
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who has given rest to his people Israel just as he promised.
Do I need to spell this one out?
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Not one word has failed of all the good promises he gave through his servant Moses
God IS faithful. Not ONE of His promises will fail.
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may he never leave us nor forsake us.
Isn't this a repeat of what He said to Joshua? "Be strong and courageous...As I was with Moses, so I will be with you...I will NEVER leave you or forsake you..."
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May he turn our hearts to him,
We have to want what He wants. We have to want Him. We have to want to spend time with Him. We have to seek Him.
A wise old man agreed to be the mentor of a younger man who looked up to him as a godly man. He told the youngster to arrive at his home at 6 in the morning to begin their journey together in seeking God's will.
The young man was 15 minutes early because he was so excited. The older man walked by him and headed for the woods. The young man followed behind the older man as he scrambled up the mountain, climbing over trees and rocks, never pausing, never speaking, never wavering from his climb toward his destination.
As the young man stumbled along trying to follow his mentor, he was scratched by tree branches, skinned his knee on a rock and fell over a log across the path that the old man overcame with ease and nearly broke his ankle.
Finally, at the top of the mountain, the old man stopped and gazed out across a clearing that contained a clear cold lake. The young man stumbled into the clearing almost a minute later, gasping for breath and muttering. "Stupid old man. Trying to kill me taking me crashing through the forest. I thought he was supposed to be teaching me about what it means to seek God's will..."
He fell to his knees beside the lake, bent his head down and cupped his hands in the water to get a drink.
The old man put his foot on the back of his head and held him under water as the kid flailed about, struggling to get his face out of the water so he could breath. When the old man let him go, the kid came up sputtering and gasping for air. "What are you doing?" he gasped. "Are you some sort of nut, trying to kill me?"
The old man said only, "You have to want what HE wants more than you want your next breath."
With that, he turned and retreated down the mountain.
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that he may uphold the cause of his servant and the cause of his people Israel according to each day's need
Not tomorrow's need, but today's. Each day He gives us what we need to get through today. Worrying about tomorrow is not showing faith in Him, because He is faithful and just and will always do what is right. But He will do it in His time and His way, no matter what we think we need.
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so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.
And this is why we need to seek His will first and foremost. It is because it is for HIS GLORY that we are given anything at all, not because He owes us anything or because we have earned anything from Him. It is for His glory that we are to do His will because He is God and there is no other.
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But your hearts must be fully committed to the LORD our God, to live by his decrees and obey his commands..."
And this is how we show Him that we love Him and trust Him and are thankful to Him. It is by DOING His will that we worship Him. Seeking His will is the first step, doing is the bulk of what we need to do.
Thanks for the weekly sermon, I really appreciate it. Where I still need to look at what you wrote and dissect it to become a part of me, the struggle I am in is not really about WH.
Its about OS... And I just realized it. I feel like I am living on pins and needles while he is home. He doesn't talk, he just sits there and watches tv. He is grouchy because there is no food in the house that he likes and he is tired of tacos. Well I am sorely tired of eggs and crap too.
He comes and goes as he pleases, he barely cleans up his mess and when I ask him to do something he just gives me a flippant answer. He's moody, he's tired, he's bored, he's angry and I am the flippin one who is getting the brunt of it.
He doesn't like the fact that I am happy, joyous and want to talk, he just wants to be ignored and lay on the couch and watch tv. It's like living with his dad all over again. He disrespects me and I can't even have a discussion with me before he is telling me I am wrong and that's not what is going on.
I told him he could move out, he told me he was pissed at me for trying to "fix" his relationship with his sister or dad. He hates them and doesn't want anything to do with them. He doesn't want his father to come home and if he does then he is gone.
And he doesn't want to get a job because he is waiting until August to apply at Costco, and there is no point in getting a job.
I'm frustrating, feel like the same discarded worthless piece of crap that my H used to treat me like on top of being stupid because what I am feeling isn't really what's going on.
Your son might be depressed, and part of it is just the age. My oldest was like that and not he is 26 and helpful and loving. He invites me everywhere with him and is just a wonderful son.
Yours will get there too.
Hang in there Queenie. It can't be easy, and feeding two boys is expensive.
I'm on a roll now... What he is really pissed about is he can't get me to change my mind and move on from hoping his dad will figure this out and come home. And that when he threatens me that he will move out if H comes home I don't respond like he wants me to.
I have a WH, DD, and two DSs who don't want to look at their feelings and resent me because I am emotional. Not one of them really respect me at all, I can lie to myself and say they do, but in truth they don't. They only want me for something... and well WH doesn't give a rip whether I am alive or dead, just make things easier for him by going away and letting him live his life with crack ho.
Am I pi$$ed, beyond words can describe right now. I'm stick of being the brunt of their darn pain. I'm doing the best I can. I've worked so hard to not feel this anger and they just keep dumping on me.
DD wants to make sure that the cell phone issue is taken care of and the way SHE wants it. OS just wants to do as he pleases, with no responsibility and be left alone and YS, the attitude is disrespectful and dismissive and just plain rude. Does he call me to tell me how he is doing, NO.. Just can you email me the recipe for the cake.
So, what am I doing about the anger. I talked to my AA sponsor and am going to a meeting with her where her sponsors is speaking. But part of her story is that she and her current husband were affair partners who ripped apart two families to be together.
I feel like I am living in a world that I don't belong in anymore. There are no values, no morals, no respect and people just do what they want. Do I feel better, NOT YET. I want to HIT SOMETHING. I want to cry and I want off of this roller coaster and live a NORMAL life where my family is healthy and happy.
But that isn't going to happen at least not today. And thank you Mark, I know G-d is giving me what I need today. It's just a lot right now.
So, I guess some of this is the same as many other problems....if the situation isn't good, what can you do to improve it.
Frankly, a cell phone is not a necessity. It is a luxury. A simple land line phone is probably much less expensive. That and an answering machine would cost a lot less. Not as much fun. But it's not usually necessary for health and life.
And, if you have enough food to fill your stomach, you are doing better than many people in the world. It may not be exciting but, if it's meeting the NEED, it's ok. More than that is a luxury.
What did G-d send the Israelites during the exodus?
He sent them the same food 6 days a week. For how many years?
You are correct a cell phone is not a necessity, but I can afford it when I get money, it's just I don't have the money yet and honestly the state wasn't very helpful when i talked to them.
I'm not really complaining about the food, I actually feel fortunate to just have what I have an can be very creative, OS hates it and it just pushed my self pity button.
I better know this, he sent them with unleaven bread? LOL Which is SO TASTELESS without cream cheese, etc. I actually have 2 boxes left over from Passover.
OOOPS, I was wrong... You are getting me good Cinderella, would it have been for 40 years while in the dessert? If not, I will be looking it up tomorrow.
Tell 'em you're just modern day Israelites. Put up a tent in the back yard and make 'em eat matza 6 days a week and 'em a live quail for the other.....tell 'em the Israelites got by on that for 40 years...so they can consider themselves lucky to have a couple of other options. And give 'em nothing but water to drink. No Aquafina, either.
Q, tell you son to stop fussing and that if its not good enough for him to get off his lazy butt and do something about it.
As for your daugther. Tell her the princess days are over and to go run to daddy about the cell phone and that she needs to stop thigns are not going to be like they are. Suck up and live up.
You are providing them with what you can and one day they will look back on this time and realize it.
((HUGS))
Mark thank you for your weekly sermon to Queenie. I enjoyed reading it tonight
But part of her story is that she and her current husband were affair partners who ripped apart two families to be together.
I feel like I am living in a world that I don't belong in anymore. There are no values, no morals, no respect and people just do what they want. Do I feel better, NOT YET. I want to HIT SOMETHING.
I know what you mean, Queenie... they are not necessarily 'close' friends, but I do have acquaintances whose R started as affair partners... but since being part of the 'collateral damage' of an affair.... I don't have much to say to them...
...try hitting a bunch of pillows, it might do the trick...and nobody is harmed!
...and yes, raising kids is hard enough as it is... expect infidelity in the mix to just make it more so... as if we needed more to handle!
If you have not been paying for it, that is not your baby. Don't go there. Maybe listen to her and then tell her you understand her frustrations. You used to not have to meet the total financial needs of the family but now you do.
She has a several of options:
1) Pay for it herself. My daughter has done that for quite some time. She is 17. I only recently added her to my phone when I decided to get one that I liked. If she pays for it herself, she will have no need to complain.
2) Get someone else to pay for it. This means she will not really be entitled to complain (especially to you) about what they choose to provide.
3) Do without. If she chooses this options, she will have no phone about which to complain.
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About your son and the food.....what happens if you establish a food budget and adhere to it? Get him to shop ads or go to the store w/ you so he will see how far the money goes....or doesn't go. Then remind him about the budget and that, when things improve financially, there will be improvements. Until then, things are what they are.
feel like the same discarded worthless piece of crap that my H used to treat me like on top of being stupid because what I am feeling isn't really what's going on.
Queenie:
I USED to be where you are and IT IS A MAJOR, MAJOR CHANGE that I have made in MYSELF since PLAN A..
It's the SELF-RESPECT ISSUE.
I'm a woman of FEW WORDS these days and seem to be coming more and more BLUNT and to the point in my "MIDDLE" AGE...so I hope I don't come across as hurtful...
Basically, STOP ALLOWING YOUR SON TO DISRESPECT YOU..
You are the MOTHER and HE IS THE SON...
Going back to the BASICS of the TEN COMMANDMENTS...HONOR YOU..is what he is supposed to be doing and treating you the way that he is treating you is WRONG...
It doesn't matter what has happened with his FATHER..YOU are NOT his FATHER..you can't take responsibility for what his FATHER has done and is doing...
This is between YOU and HIM...
He is supposed to follow the RULES of YOUR HOUSE..
You go to work everyday to help take care of him and he should be APPRECIATIVE and THANKFUL for that.
What YOU do with YOUR MARRIAGE is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS. How can HE possibly UNDERSTAND ADULT RELATIONSHIPS and MATTERS. Of course, he THINKS he knows everything, being a TEENAGER but I've learned even with my ADULT SONS to say, "YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND WHAT I NEED TO DO IN MY LIFE; YOU ARE WELCOME TO YOUR OPINIONS BUT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO"....
Basically, HE IS IGNORANT about THIS..It's like the "tail wagging the dog"
HEAD UP, CHEST OUT WITH YOUR SON, QUEENIE...
PERSONAL POWER..DO NOT ALLOW YOUR BABY to HAVE THIS CONTROL OVER YOU!!!
It's the POWER AND CONTROL ISSUE, isn't it? Seems like he's learned it well. He thinks that he can have CONTROL OVER YOU, YOUR FEELINGS AND YOUR ACTIONS? He's not even IN CHARGE of HIMSELF. You are. If he wants to be IN CHARGE, he needs to find himself a job and move out.
I have been the one paying for it. His name is on the account and bill, but I am the one paying for it. In fact, I was paying for HIS cell phone up until he started messing with the money and then I turned his phone off because I had the code to the account.
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She has a several of options:
1) Pay for it herself. 2) Do without. If she chooses this options, she will have no phone about which to complain.
My little princess moved out a year ago in February after attacking me. I have since come to understand that WH made life miserable in that house and I wasn't the only one who was feeling the effects. When she moved out, she left the phone, well I snagged it and she did without a cell phone until her birthday this year which was my present to her to come back on the plan. In fairness to her, she is paying for the bill, probably way more than what she needs to. I have to say, she went from being a spoiled little brat to making it on her own, yes instant gratification attitude sucks, but she has learned about struggling financially in life. I'm really very proud of her.
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It's the SELF-RESPECT ISSUE.
Here we are again Mimi, aren't we. GOSH DARN IT...
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Basically, STOP ALLOWING YOUR SON TO DISRESPECT YOU..
I don't always see it happening until its too late and we are caught up in it.
He is so ANGRY and HURT inside. We talked last night after cooling down, my sponsor got to me to see that I was putting my feelings of what WH treated me like all these years onto my child and that isn't necessarily fair. I was speaking to my son.
What I didn't know and what was causing OS so much turmoil he that he was recognizing that what he was doing was just like what his dad did to me all those years and he was getting angrier and angrier at himself, but taking it out on me. We both apologize to each other and realize we need to learn new ways of living. He is the one child out of all of them that WH has just walked away from, completely and totally abandoned him and this is the one who is most like him and this one feels that pain every single day. But he is just like his father and he stuffs it inside and says it doesn't exist and when I probe or gently try to get him to look at it he just explodes at me. My H used to just shut down more and walk away.
It's so different than me and painful for me to watch. But I have to let it alone, establish boundaries and figure out how to move forward after leaving it with G-d for his answers.
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What YOU do with YOUR MARRIAGE is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS.
I am in total agreement. Here is absolutely the one area where I am not addressing it. He knows how I feel, he knows that if his dad comes home and he chooses to leave it's his choice, etc. But it's painful watching it happen because they both love each other so much, and yet this is the one child that my H struggled with the most.
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It's the POWER AND CONTROL ISSUE, isn't it? Seems like he's learned it well.
Yes he did, in fact ALL of my children learned it well. I get so frustrated because I didnt' realize it was happening and I just was trying to make my H happy and in the end not only did he just throw me away, but my children are left to pick up the pieces.
You are making perfect sense. But in the end, I just simple don't operate in this world of control anymore and I am oblivious it's happening until too late.
I could certainly use G-d shield of protection or something right now as I learn to become more aware of it happening so I can stop it before it goes further.
I like your suggestion of the pillow hitting, Luna. I did end up going and I was floored by how she handled the story when she spoke. Completely left out that part, and probably it wasn't the place to admit her wrongdoing, but nonetheless is sickens me and my sponsor absolutey worships her.
I can't remember who suggested the budget idea. I think that is a good idea....thank you.
Hi Q I hope u r ok. I am sorry that I have been completely oblivious to what has been happening with you. It's been a bit too crazy at my end, but I have never stopped thinking about you. Hope all is ok. God bless you
My son, now 22 and recently graduated with a degree in business was asking me about what to do about his cell phone, which is in my name. The contract ended on Tuesday this past week.
My answer to him was this..."You can do anything you want to do about a phone. You can sign up with any carrier, on any plan for any length of time. It's yours to do as you please...But it will be in YOUR name and it will be YOUR signature on the contract and it will be YOUR phone bill to pay. You can take the highest priced plan with the most expensive phone on the highest priced network and it won't matter to me at all, since it will be YOUR problem and not mine."
This is the same one who a year ago said to me, "I'm sick of working just to pay my bills." My answer to him was "I'm sick of working just to pay your bills too."
This year he said he thought he might wait to look for a real job. He asked me "Do you know how long it's been since I had a summer off?"
When I stopped laughing, I asked, "Do you know when the last time it was that I had a summer off?"
He said, "That's different."
And I replied, "Why? Is it different because I'm older? When I was 22 (his age, but I NEVER say, "When I was your age...") we already had one child. When I was almost 18 I left my high school graduation, skipped my own party and went to work at 11 that night at the railroad. When I was 16 I worked part time during the school year and full time all summer. When I was 14 I worked part time and babysat in the neighborhood two nights per week so I had spending money. My last full summer off with nothing to do was 1966. I painted my grandfather's two story house that summer... The summer before, my parents built a house and I helped with painting, plumbing, electrical stuff and hung siding. I also learned to hang dry-wall and tape and mud the joints. So you think you should have an entire summer off to do what?"
His answer sounded like "Fraznatruckdripdoomphmilkenfreepindwazits..." or something along those lines...
Yeah, we survived before. Texting is not for me though I can do it....will do it when necessary. Thursday, when I was 6 hours late getting out of town and my mom's car was seriously ill, it was a blessing to be able to text w/ my bil who takes care of mom's money. But I could have done it by phone and would have preferred that. But, it was helpful. However, had he not had a cellphone and I not had one, life would have been very difficult. I could have ended up w/ a serious towing bill since I was driving her car and was ready to start a 150 mile trip to the mountains meaning the car could have died that far from home.
How r u doing today? Im exhausted working graveyard last night and now up and looking for a very small hard drive the kids have taken out of DH bag ... opps... woke the kids up at the babysitters asking for it.
I see you aren't sleeping yet, how come? I'm ok. Been some struggles today, but I keep giving it to G-d. I really like that letter that Kim wrote on her thread from G-d. I printed it out and read it at least once a day.
Been a long afternoon. Some things have been running in my mind and I just need to be patient and things will happien for me. Its hard to be patient. I guess MB can be kinda addicting, that and Bethanee just went to sleep.
My day was good. I went on that same 4 mile walk with my sponsor that I started working towards last week.
Then I spent the day at the lake.
I went to the women's meeting tonight and I really struggle going to that meeting because there is so much honest sharing in that room. I'm afraid to let them in, truly because I lost my best friends over this flippin mess.
These woman are the same, they don't believe that my H will come home and they just want me to move on.
How can I not be happy for the ones on here who are getting that chance for recovery. It's so frickin awesome for them.
But I'm losing hope, and I'm struggling to keep building a life and I havent' really had ONE OF THOSE days for awhile and it's creeping up on me.
I know Plan B was the only way to go. I know that, but the reality of not ever seeing my H again is just too much to comprehend. And I know that I need to just face today and trust G-d. I know that, but somedays the feelings are just a little stronger than others and I miss being with my best friend. I miss talking to him about everything and nothing. I miss being angry at him, but knowing we would make up.
So, I know the routine, it's just my stinkin thinkin taking a rearing look and I have to stop it, which I am working on.
What kinds of things are running in your mind, can I help?
You know you have so much support here. Yes its hard to not talk to your best friend and share the ups and downs. I know it breaks your heart and I wish you were not going thru this. How long have u been in Plan B? Have you done anything for just yourself lately? Besides the pool, lake and walks. Have you gone and gotten your feet or a manicure done lately? That type of thing.
Yes when alone thoughts run thru our heads so you are no different then the next. But you are you. YOU can change YOU. Tired of the funk your in then do something about it. Change 1 thing you do that upsets you and try to break it. Set up a goal and make that thing non existant.
My problems lay within myself. Atleast I think. I try to meet DH EN's and its hard when I am not happy with myself. I have gained weight but I havent done anythign about it yet. I need too. I really hate my hrs at work. The fact we are trying to sale this home and trying to get a house that in the long run we cant afford if I quit sucks. I would change my hrs at work but I cant because thats what assistant managers work. DH and I havent even spent roughly the 15 hr week for a spouse. And I got upset with him tonight becasue he was working late getting ready for a group of IT's to go to Dallas. **I sound whiny in this** I know what I have to do to fix ALL of this. I just need to get things in order for them to fall in place. Sorry for the venting.
Vent away, it gets me out of self. What are you doing to take care of you and your M.
Oh my goodness, I have absolutely the most amazing support on here and if it weren't for here, I don't know how I would have moved forward. I have been in Plan B for a little over 4 months.
Part of me knows its the alcholic who wants to stir up the drama and there really isn't. WH didn't turn off the phones yet and I am uneasy about that. So I keep praying because really I don't care what he does or doesn't do on this particular issue.
As for doing something for me like a pedicure or manicure. Ah that would be a NO. No money. So walking, pool, meetings are the best I get right now. That and my special time with G-d which seems to be a lot.
Even though its great having a month off from school, it's a little restless and since I can't spend money, go places etc. I'm feeling a little trapped.. Hence the walking.
I have never walked down Plan A and Plan B paths before. So I do not know what you are feeling is normal. I am sure it is as we all miss our spouses when they are away. And the fact there isnt someone there at the moment to show love to you is very hard I am sure. But besides that...
DH and I have been working on a plan here and there on what we are going to do. My BIL offered me to work with him part time but down fall is what I get paid there would basically be enough to cover gas with the distance it is to get there.
Oh the other day I was at a resturant and while inside someone parked next to me well they rubbed my side of the car with there bumper. So my vans in the shop and I have a fully paid rental
Bethanee is talking more and more! Ethan is excited to start Kinder this year and if it wasnt so darn expensive I would send him to the jewish school here. And of coarse Aric is getting where he doesnt want to go to school. Told him Im gonna become a B this year to him about homework.
I remember when my kids were young like yours and I felt trapped. The years just flew by in reality and now I'm alone, not feeling sorry for myself, but that's the truth.
So, please enjoy these school years. Maybe you can do the homework together or help him get set up?
I know the frustration of kids not doing their homework, but in the larger scheme, they will grow up and graduate and be gone. Don't be a B for homework, joined together and find a way to not have it be a power struggle.
You are right. I have to better myself with my oldest. I think we are so much alike we clash most of the time.
I am sorry sweetie but I must sign out for the evening. I have to be up at 5am for work. But will be back on in the evening. I know you will come out of this soon Queenie. Your walking the road the G-d gave you. and he is next to you along this path. He might not be there every moment but we are his children and like us having to learn with our flesh and blood he has to let us learn and find our way.
Hugs to you tonight. You are a very strong person remember that.
I wonder what are the stages that a BS goes through while in Plan B. Maybe what I am going through is normal?
Guess what? You are most definately quite Normal! While I can't lay out specific steps that a BS goes through (there may in fact be some, but I don't have that kind of knowledge), I can tell you from my own personal experience that I've gone through the same things you are going through.
And heck,,,I GOTTA be normal as the next person? RIGHT?? Please say I'm right!! haha!!
Seriously, though, every BS goes through those ups and downs. The days, the times, the highs, the lows all vary from person to person, but we all have them.
I just passed the one year mark of Plan B and I STILL have ups and downs. There are days it is an effort to raise my head off the pillow in the morning because I have another day of waking up alone. BUT, those days are much fewer than they were a year ago.
It IS much easier to raise my head and even though I think of Drac each and every morning when I wake up, more days than not, I am able to put him in God's hands, and then move on with MY day and MY life. Even if it's just for THAT day. That's how I look at it. Although I've not done Al-Anon, it's very similiar (I think), in that it is One day at a time.
Decide EACH day where you are going to put the WH. Then DO IT. Somedays are harder than others and some days we are more succesful than others. That's NORMAL. That's life. And that's OK.
So, what are you DOING to reverse your stinkin thinkin?? Make a list of Specifc things you will do about that today.
You are doing so great with helping and giving to others! Pat yourself on the back and build from there!!
Thanks Bugs, you probably will understand how helpful this post is right now. Somedays I feel so strong and able to just keep walking and then the others... well I just don't.
What am I going to do today, well I am doing laundry, then clean my bathroom and then I get to go up to my 2nd job and work there for a few hours. Afterwards depending on the time will mean which meeting I go to.
Each day when I wake up and am talking to G-d, say you know what I want, you know what he needs, can you make them match? I don't get to just pray for my own selfishness and I struggle with this, because how can it be selfish to want a family, a marriage recovered and to heal 5 lives. But who knows, one day G-d will let me know when I meet him.
As for my stinking thinkin, I let myself cry for a little while and then seek G-d asking him what he wants me to do next, since it's his will I am looking for and not mine.
{{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}} I hope you are having a safe and spectacular day because you are so special and strong for the rest of us. But I can tell even you are still in pain over this and I am just as strong for you as well. As are so many others on here.
My AA sponsor thinks that I should write an angry letter to WH on what he has done.
I'm afraid of the feelings and the depth of anger that exists. There isn't much you can do, but I need to put it out there for me so I can get writing and see what I learn or what happens when its done.
Im doing pretty good. I do not have to be at work till 2pm tomrrow so thats a good thing.
My boss says im always tired and that you must be off balance. Ok yeah Im off balance. I am trying to work full time and raise a family and be a mother. What is there to be balanced??? LoL
The babies are at daycare and I will be getting them soon. I need to do the cleaning you did today but I cant seem to get up and do it. All I wanna do is sit here. I think its just being exhausted. Took a 5 hr energy thing and it worked for a bit. I think it worked to well. I feel I didnt do much at work today but stand there. I think thats why my boss finally told me to go home.
If you aren't normal, I guess the rest of us aren't either. I'm coming up on the one year mark for Plan B and I have ups and downs. I'll go through an extended up and feel great, then one day come crashing down. My DD called yesterday and told me that WH came to town to see her. Boom. There I went. She told me that he is sick - can barely walk due to a hernia? Not sure what it is all about, but it depressed me. I'll post about it on my own thread.
Anyway, you and I both were in long term marriages, and it is something we may never fully get over. How could we? We just have to know that the waves will come, but also know that if we ride them out we'll get some relief until the next one comes again. Hopefully they will be farther between in time....
I wonder what are the stages that a BS goes through while in Plan B. Maybe what I am going through is normal?
Guess Bugs beat me to it!
I can't personally spell out the stages I went through, except to say,Queenie, that you are as NORMAL as can be!
Just in case though, check and see if by any chance you may have been 'expecting' something to happen by now, like a sign from WS coming out of the fog, I know I WAS...on a regular basis... and that usually will get you into trouble.
Both Bugs and CL made me realize that I may be one of the longest (oldest?) in Plan B around here. I hope you don't find that discouraging!...(rolling eyes icon...have I said it enough times how much I miss the icons we could use from the old site?!)
Well, what I can confirm and you can look forward to, is that if one keeps working at NOT focusing on WS, eventually, like me, you actually may not remember the last time you woke up THINKING only about WS!
As in my case, WS thoughts have now been 'demoted' to sometime during the day, in fact, I can say that some days, thoughts of WS have become only 'background' thoughts...
So, NOW the 'stinking thinking' is limited to whenever there is a 'message' from WS re boys or finances (a bit like Bugs), and I have to DEAL with it! ...or a MAJOR trigger of some sort....
This weekend I went to see a movie and an allusion to an affair were made. Where before that would have been a MAJOR trigger...this time, it was not as much.
So, Queenie, do whatever it takes, that is legal and healthy, that will get to FOCUS on something else than WS, and eventually, you will get THERE (whatever and wherever that is...LOL!) Try to figure out, other than WS and your family, what else you might be PASSIONATE about, then it becomes easier to take the FOCUS away from WS and your troubles!
WHEN WS decides to reinvest in family, it will be HIS CHOICE, and it will really have nothing to do with what you do (unless you break Plan B and interactions are full of LB and DJ!..) which is why DARK is the only way to go while in Plan B, so, sit back...and DO YOUR THING!
Thanks for the confirmation I'M NOT NUTS. I like being NORMAL.. Nothing special but a miracle of G-d like everyone else.
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what else you might be PASSIONATE about
I used to be passionate about my temple and volunteering. Since that isn't such a desire for me, what I am most passionate about is my Redskins and I'm grateful that football is just around the corner.
I used to be so passionate about so many things, from quilting, to reading, to my volunteering, to whatever my heart touched.
So, I am in the process of learning I guess. Not sure where to start, but let's keep it simple for tomorrow and be excited about football. Exercising doesn't thrill me at all, but I do it because it's good for me. Reading self help books get old and I am banned from romance novels - imagine that.
Quilting isn't my passion again, but it's summer. I'm passionate about recovery and Jews and am becoming more involved in making that a project for myself. Once September comes I am the treasurer for my union so that will give me more to do as well Oh, I am taking on added responsibility with more money in fact to design and keep up our school website. Which is cool because I have wanted to learn how to do that for years.
I know there is so much, but suggestions, please?
{{{LUNA}}}}}} Side note: thanks for writing when WS instead of if. Sounds much better. LOL
BTW, my advice about your wh......don't waste your emotional energy on him. Pray for him and give him to G-d. You can do nothing more.
Focus on caring for Queenie....build her life....build a life for your children....
Then, just let him do his thing and see what unfolds.
I think you are spending so much energy on personal regret and lack of self-forgiveness that you are getting in the way of your own healing. You can only work on Queenie.
Get with that plan and let your Father Above deal with the rest of it.
How in the world could I have forgotten Cinderella. Now the old me could do a number on feeling bad... Not the new Queenie..
I'm sorry and ask your forgiveness. Next. Seriously you do understand how much I appreciate the time, wisdom and patience you give me.
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I think you are spending so much energy on personal regret and lack of self-forgiveness that you are getting in the way of your own healing. You can only work on Queenie.
I KNOW you are right, and it's astounding how it always comes back to this.
Intellectually I get it, but action wise it's a stumper for me.
But I got up this morning and walked 4 miles in an hour and a half. So that's something.
But this is a lifetime of unchartered territory and I really don't know what to do. I do the pedicure manicure when I have money. I go to AA for me, I spend time with friends. I read, I relax at the pool. I take care of myself physically.
What else is there?
Actually the one other thing I could do that I love to do is sing in my temple choir, which I am going to go back and do. I love singing, I'm good at it and it brings me closer to G-d. So our first practice is tonight and I am going to learn the music for high holidays and be a part of that. It's time for me to stop hiding and be a part of my temple in small ways which are comforting to me.
And since WH is dead to me, no need to talk about him and get into any disagreements over how I am choosing to live my life, right?
Thats great Q!! Im am so happy you are going to be apart of the High holidays
I wish i could sew. I would do so many cute dresses for my daugther. I can cross stich though!
What type of books do you like to read? Besides the self help, and well since u cant read romance novels...
I will be back on later tonight maybe if not I will drop in tomorrow. I am having to find out a schedule since DH is once again going off to work on more stores out of town. The last two nights hes been late from work
While I was taking the kids to daycare today Ethan was singing Mary Poppings 'A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down' It was funny cause he was trying to get to the high notes. Bethanee just covered her ears and was like shhhh LoL.
I feel bad but better with my oldest. He wouldnt help me clean the house because it wasnt his mess. I told him he does not have respect for me and cant do things with me like he does with his father. Im tired worn out and frankly I have had enough of you Bull if you say one more thing and not help me I will be more then happy to pack your bags and find you a family who will let you sit on your bum all day... Do you know of a family for him? See my oldest is ADHD extreme, mild anxiety, bipolar, LD and speech articulation errors. And I hate the fact he wants to do what he wants and hes only 11 yrs old. Ok sorry I ranted on again. But hey anything to get your mind busy!!!
Anytime I can get out of self, is a good deal for me.
With respect to your son. Does your DH know of this attitude? Can you engage your DH in helping you problem solve how he treats, you. Possibly calling your son on it, or when your son is around having your DH go out of his way to model better, more respectful behavior? Does he act like this at school? And if so, what measures to they take there that you might be able to incorporate at home if they are working?
I really sense the tireness in your life. I can't take that away or fix it, but I am open to you problem solving ideas with me. Sometimes ranting just gives all the power away. My sponsor tells me when you share yourself, pain is divided and joy is expanded. I just realized what she meant and want to give it to you.
I don't know what I like to read, I have a series of quilting books that are murder mystery, but not my cup of tea. I might need to take a walk to the library and see what I can come up with.
I crossstich as well. In fact, too bad I didn't know you last year, I gave away almost a thousand DMC floss because it wouldn't fit in my apt. What do you like to make? I have saved a couple of pictures in kits that I could do. I didn't think of that. I would love to be able to afford the Princess Diana black and white one from the stichery. I absolutely adored her.
The secret to quilting is if you can sew a straight line, you can quilt. It's really that easy.
When Aric disrepects me in front of DH, DH will step in and say do what your mother said to do and will follow thru with our son. So DH helps when hes here and he sees Aric's behavior towards me.
I am thinking of looking for a day job. But would have to make sure its enough to help pay daycare. Of coarse depending on which part of town the job is a factor too since gas is so expensive.
My family is all about Redskins. I remember Thanksgiving we would eat, the guys would watch the football game and the ladies would go for a walk then join in with them. I wonder if they are still doing that tradition since I am now out of state still. They all live pretty much up in D.C, Maryland area's.
My oldest doesnt act like that in school. Every so often he lets noises out and upsets the class but its quick to stop. So thats probally y Im kinda loss on it.
Well off to the grind mill I go. Hope you have a great afternoon. Hugs
We have talked and gotten to know each other better for almost a week now. And in that time I don't believe you told me about the Redskins and our connection.
Girl, you HELD OUT on me. Mother nature will get you for that.
Many a Thanksgiving has been ruined because of the Cowboys over games. Ask your family if they remember the Clint Longley Thanksgiving.
PM - NOT ONE WORD!!!!!!!!!!!
So do you eat blue crabs?
Would anyone in your family be interested in buying my season tickets next year if the person who is getting them this year doesn't want them?
Have a good day, will talk later.... Be good to yourself, you are an amazing woman who has a lot on her plate and need to take care of herself.
I just got off the phone with DSHS. I know it will all get cleared up, but because my son is over 18 and graduated, dshs won't collect on him for child support. And WH isn't offering up the money either.
WH's company has agreed to his wages being garnished, but just for spousal and 1 child support.
I called A, he is opening up the file and will look into it, but he remembers clearly that WH is responsible to pay child support and A said he would file motion of contempt if need be.
Either of you two ladies want some copies of "Cross Stitch and Country Crafts" magazines? Have some incredible charts in them...simply incredible. But, I ran out of time and found new interests.
Q, maybe you do need to sit shivah for him. You say he's dead to you but you keep hoping he comes back. What happens if you totally let him go and see what happens? Kind of like Dobson's tough love.....let em go and see you not needing them or spending any energy on them. (It was very helpful for me to plan and carry out a ritual to let mine go...let him leave my life.)
Q, maybe you do need to sit shivah for him. You say he's dead to you but you keep hoping he comes back. What happens if you totally let him go and see what happens?
Then why would I be in Plan B and stay married, why not just go straight to D.
I get that I have to build a life without him. I have let him go and understand he can't be a part of my life, but then why don't I just finish it and move on and see who else is out there after I heal?
I'm not trying to be difficult, just looking at what the lesson is that you are showing me. I dont know if I am ready, but I'm willing to stretch and face the pain, ok?
But forever isn't today is it? Today is today. So, what about it?
Are you going to spend all of your energy Today on WH? Or, are you going to expend that energy where it belongs, Taking Care of Queenie?!!
We keep talking about this, don't we? It's hard isn't it? I KNOW it's hard. But you have to find some way to lock away what you feel for him and have a Life. I think that's what Cinders is telling you when she's talking about letting him go.
I know that triggers like the child support issue make it extremely difficult, but you have to find a way to have LESS daily brain cells wasted on HIM.
I wish I had a magic formula for you on how to do it. It's different for each one of us. Remember my visual of the locket and the trunk? You need to find your own visual way of locking away those feelings.
Sorry I don't have a lot of time this morning and I HOPE you are in bed getting some REST. But think about this. Really think about how you can lock him away while you carry on your life. Then, you have a life moving forward. IF the opportunity comes where he starts to come around, you go find & unlock those feelings. IF it doesn't, you are not still STUCK in the post D Day muck.
Remember, Plan B needs to be about YOU. You are worth the effort!!
Keep your attorney informed and stay on xh's case about the money - take care of yourself and those children. Do not let him slack on this. Do not let him off the hook.
I figured the system would censor me if I was more descriptive. I felt bad last night and was not in a happy place.
My neck has been really hurting lately and I yesterday had a big round of 6 steroid injections in the joints in my neck that have, today, made it much more comfortable.
I am going to take a nice bath, work on the clothes that DH washed last night for me. Relax till its time to get the kids. I would post what else i have planned out for the evening but DH reads the posts here and will ruin the surprise. Atleast the gesture.
I am off today and I have to be at work tomorrow for a 12 hr shift. *ICK* I work saturday 8am off sunday monday and tuesday i work morning hrs and wed I work 2p to 10p. Man does he have me jumping around the schedule.
I have to get the kids ready for daycare. BBL hugs and
Can you really get CS for 18 year olds? I thought that when they were 18, they were legally adults. Oh well, hope you can still get it because I know 18 year old boys eat a lot of food.
Anyway, maybe set a deadline a to how long you will wait, then forget about WH. Jennifer told me to wait 1 year, then call her again. Then at the 1 year mark, you can evaluate and determine if you want to extend. I think it helps a little mentally and emotionally because you don't feel such an urgency to decide what to do.
Keep the financial pressure on him though. It causes good LBs at the HoHouse.
Journaling is good. I actually will probably have lots of time after Sunday - it's supposed to be cloudy and rain, to journal and I will get that letter written.
I'm procrastinating, not doubt about it. I actually do that alot. ICKY, have taken up where H left off.
I am singing in my choir tonight for services because our new rabbi is starting tonight. We have her for one year. And then tomorrow going to services and singing. Then I have a lunch date with some girlfriends from work and then am meeting with a possible sponsee of mine, which will be my first, and then a AA bbq and meeting.
So I have a full day ahead of me.
I am really thinking or just intaking what you are saying Bugs, Cinders, and Pretty. I am praying on it and leaving it be for now because I don't have answers.
I'm heading to the pool to take in the last of the sunshine for now, It's in the back of my mind that I am going back to work and so I am looking at how best to take care of me with the time I have left, specifically today... Relaxing, sun, and services.
I think that's a good start in loving myself for today. And I just have to love myself and be good to myself today.
I'm so excited to be going to services tonight and singing. I was singing outside this afternoon some Shabbat songs and oh my, was it nice to hear the hebrew and use the words.
I love singing. I have missed it alot. I am in a much better place than last year and am looking forward to being in temple tonight. And with a rabbi, what a treat, plus we have morning services tomorrow which are way more formal and the songs are even cooler.
Last summer, WH, DD, DYS, and DD BF went to CA for WH's godchild/neice's wedding. My neice has been with this man for 6 years maybe and they had 2 children. They were ready to get married. This was actually the trip that we went on where when we came back, WH almost came home.
Anyways, I found out today through my YS that my neice just found out her H has been cheating on her for 3 months now. I have on clue what's happening and it was my OS who told me b/c YS tm'd him.
This is WH's favorite niece, I can't help but wonder if this would affect WH if he knew. I won't be the one to tell him. But still. Enough thinking of WH.
I hurt for her and wonder if there is anything I can do for her or even if I should know.
Tonight was absolutely INCREDIBLE. I felt like I was HOME. I felt safe, I felt like I belonged and I missed it so much. I loved singing and it just felt so awesome to be singing to G-d tonight.
Interestingly this week's Torah portion is Matot. The rabbi's sermon was on taking vows and promises and the seriousness of those in Jewish life. She went on to talk about how Jews make a vow and are not allowed to not follow through on it without dire results.
Then she talked about Judges and Jebda? Mark, do you know this story? What's your take on it.
Shabbat Shalom, Pretty and Mark
For the first time since this happened, I felt alive inside, I felt close to G-d and I felt safe. The newly elected president's wife and I were talking about WH etc. She said the sweetest things. She said he LEFT YOU? She was shocked. That was so kind of her to be that gracious. She also has the same calling I do or NEED to go to Israel and so we are planning a trip together for next year. She is a teacher and we work almost the same schedule.
For the first time since this happened, I felt alive inside, I felt close to G-d and I felt safe. .... She also has the same calling I do or NEED to go to Israel and so we are planning a trip together for next year. She is a teacher and we work almost the same schedule.
THIS IS....great news...and a great PLAN!
Keep 'chipping' away at the mountain... and one day it will dust at your feet!
Tonight was absolutely INCREDIBLE. I felt like I was HOME. I felt safe, I felt like I belonged and I missed it so much. I loved singing and it just felt so awesome to be singing to G-d tonight.
I am so, so, so glad to hear this! I was thrilled when I read of your plans earlier that you were going and that you were planning to sing!
I could 'hear' the excitement in your voice before the evening began and am so thrilled that it was such a great night for you. It's time that you re-connected in your life this way. So glad you had such great interactions!
I have to work today, but might get to stop back later. We do have a picnic this afternoon at our pastor's house, so it might be late, but I'll be back...
Today was just as wonderful as last night in services. The songs, the melodies, the being with my "family". I was able to go there and not be all sad for the loss or feel like "he" was missing so much.
I was able to just be there with me and G-d. And that was so nice. The rabbi brought Torah to life and I confirmed with a lady there that for sure we are going to Israel next year.
I feel like though I am staying in today, I have something to look forward to versus just living a day. And that's nice to have. I know how I can come up with the money, from the sale of the house and I found out that my children can get go to Israel for free, I just have to get them to New York. So I am planning on figuring that out, sending them to Israel, if they want to go at the same time and meeting up with them while we are there.
I left services, went to meet my lady friends from work and then came home, took a little nap and went to a BBQ and AA meeting.
All in all it was a nice filled up day for which I am grateful.
Tomorrow I am meeting with my AA sponsor to finish working through the 12th step and then meeting with my possible sponsee and then my meeting tomorrow night.
It was so weird how the lady I am planning to go to Israel with said to me last night, I have to come back. She understands that need to go there. It's a pull that has always been there and if it werent' for my son still being in high school. I wouldn't come back.
But I can always move there after he graduates, or how about I just stay in today and get through it today.
How are you doing? Are you taking care of yourself and getting enough rest lately?
I know it's hard, but anything you get is good.
Thank you for your support. Israel will be expensive, but with the sale of the house I think that its one of my best shots to go and do this for me.
This has been a desire of mine for my ENTIRE life. I really could just move there and live out my life and maybe meet a man one day who shares the same values in life that I do.
For now, I just get to experience who I am and know that I belong.
You are so RIGHT, who knows, one day maybe you can go. Anything is possible if we let G-d give it to us or lead us.
I'm excited to keep working through because now I get to start on my alanon steps. Lucky me...
I'm glad you are getting rest. I worry about you. It's not good, but then again it's life and you will get through it. No one has ever died from being tired, but its' a rough place to be in.
I know, it's never fun to have our last baby grow up on us, but when you are there and present in their lives then you know that you are doing what G-d wants, which is to take care of his children and set them free so he can guide them like he does you, his other child.
We got some of the rain from Dolly but she finally moved out this morning. Its nice and humid here. Take a shower at home go right outside and boom you have another one
I am doing better. I keep building my life each day. I am getting ready to go back to work next week so that's going to be nice.
The times I think of him are limited and I am better able to shake them away. He is sick and gone. My sponsor really wants me to write that angry letter before I go back to work and since its supposed to be rainy this week I should be able to get that done alone with doing one more deep cleaning in my apt.
As it turns out, my house still hasn't sold. The contractor is feeling the crunch, so I might entertain trying to get help funding it to get back in there.
I think having a trip to plan for next year will be good for me. I need something to keep me forward and looking to my own future. Though it's just today, it's still going to be fun to plan.
There is a part of me that really just wants to run away, forget my life here and just begin again and find someone new, no baggage in our relationship, just the ability to practice MB principles and live out my life.
That certainly doesn't need to be decided today. I just need to be the sun GODDESS and go lay out while I have time.
Thank you for the words of encouragement. I am doing better and that's a good thing.
Today, I went on a 4 mile walk with my sponsor. I had a harder time because I hadn't gone since Thursday, so the huffing and puffing was heavier, but I made it in the same amount of time.
I came home, napped for a bit then went to the pool for the afternoon. My sponsor came, brought us lunch and we had a nice time.
Then I went to an all women meeting, that included a potluck. It's a very intense, honest, meeting. I have a hard time in that meeting as I don't want to really share myself, but I'm trying and that's ok.
My sponsor noticed in me that the two times she has been around me at the pool and someone comes she notices that I become more friendly, loud, talkative etc and she was wondering what that was about. And then she said she noticed it tonight when everyone was around and I seemed to become more comfortable. She isn't saying if that is bad or good, just I am different.
I hope everyone is having a nice evening. I am going to check on other threads and try and get that letter started. I know, I keep putting it off. But maybe I can pray for the willingness.
I'm so glad you shared your story with us. I felt that heartached you two have been through. I hope one day you get to know my WH and can help him walk through his journey.
Q, I bet if you start writting you wont even realize it and be done with it.
I have written so many times about whatever and I feel so much better. Its another way to handle things if someones not right there to talk to at the moment.
Queenie, you know, you might not need to send the letter after you get it written. You might choose to burn it or tie it to a balloon and release it to the universe or G-d. Or bury it. Or float it down the river. You don't have to give it to him. Just getting all that out of you may be very liberating, though.
That is SO TOTALLY what I was trying to say. Writing it is fine. Spewing all you want is fine. Venting and saying every hurtful thing you want is fine. Expressing your hope is fine. BUT DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SEND IT!!!!!!!!
Have FAITH in ME. This letter was NEVER going to be sent. Just written, read to my sponsor and destroyed.
The only letter that might get sent is the PBL again, but even that one I don't know about. We can look at that in a couple of months.
I have almost a whole page done, but I need to keep writing. I was crying so hard and so emotional last night, I just put it down and went to sleep and talked to G-d.
Now I am heading out to go walk. Will be back..
Wait a sec? You dont' think hateful, angry spewing venom letter isn't what I should send him? Darn... it
Hi Cinders, I'll listen to the posts you just gave me in a little while.
I went walking, and have been rearranging and cleaning my apt getting ready to go back to work next week. I want to get everything deep cleaned so I can take the weekend off and really work on my tan one last time for the year.
I feel so violated today. I feel like I just want to take a gun and shoot WH dead or at the very least make him understand what he has DONE to this family. I know of course there isn't anything that can be done, he isn't a human being, but I'm tired of having no where to put these feelings. I want them at him. I want to scream and shout and hit him and get him to wake up.
I've gained weight, and I'm angry and sad because I don't have money to buy food that is really on my food plan, I'm stuck eating cheap carbs and walking 4 miles a day doesn't seem to be stopping the weight. So I'm unhappy with myself.
I called the A, the state about the money and pretty much there is nothing I can do. WH owes me the money and won't get out of paying me, but in terms of when it shows up, who knows.
I've just lost hope. I'm moving on, building a life, moving farther away from my H and I have no other choice but to keep going.
feel like I just want to take a gun and shoot WH dead or at the very least make him understand what he has DONE to this family. I know of course there isn't anything that can be done, he isn't a human being, but I'm tired of having no where to put these feelings. I want them at him. I want to scream and shout and hit him and get him to wake up.
You are still wanting to CONTROL HIM...YOU want MAKE HIM understand???? Then, you say that you know that there isn't anything that can be done. Not true. YOU want to do SOMETHING to CONTROL HIM. Right?
Remember: YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF.. CONTROL your own need to CONTROL...CONTROL your OWN EATING PATTERNS..
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I'm moving on, building a life, moving farther away from my H and I have no other choice but to keep going.
This is not HOPELESS...This is HOPEFUL that you have this option...
NO, I want to do something that will help me to move on and strip him out of my life. I want this to be OVER. I want the burning bush that tells me it's time to D him, he's NEVER coming back and there is no HOPE for recovery.
I DON'T WANT TO CONTROL. I hate to control. It's just something I always did. I HATE it, I know I have NO control over anyone but myself. I KNOW IT.
What I want is to simply STOP FEELING and NOT CARE.
Because I'm SO MIXED up inside and I haven't a clue WHAT I WANT. I just don't WANT THIS...
I actually see knowing what you don't want as an important step to figuring out what you do want.
I also think your anger is a step forward, in that it is the first time I recall seeing you really angry at your WH. Usually you save that kind of anger for yourself. Go ahead and beat on some pillows!
I'm ANGRY all right. I'm angry that he has responsibilities and he just walks away and leaves me to figure it out. I'm angry that there was NO CHOICE for me in ENDING my M. He stole it and threw it away.
I'm ANGRY that I fell in love with that man and believed him that he loved me, that he would always be there.
I'm ANGRY on how STUPID I was to believe his LIES and DECEIT and to TRUST HIM. I HATE this WH. I HATE him and want him gone from my life. I
I want this to be OVER. I want to be HEALED, happy and with someone who I can love because I have learned to love myself and I can be proud of what I have done to walk through this.
And I am ANGRY at me because I believed in good, in happily ever after and that commitment was something you honored and kept working at no matter what.
I'm STUPID and NAIVE for even believing that M was something special between two people. That love would conquer all. That family was the most important thing in life and when you made that commitment you just frickin kept trying to make it work.
I'm not ANGRY about the A, I'm ANGRY he just LEFT. I'm ANGRY at this disease of Alcholism because I KNOW how it destroys and there it NOTHING, NOTHING that can be DONE.
I'm ANGRY because STUPID me though I had control. WHAT A LIE. I didn't control anything and I WASTED SO MUCH TIME and ruined so many LIVES because I THOUGHT I could CONTROL.
And I am ANGRY at me because I believed in good, in happily ever after and that commitment was something you honored and kept working at no matter what.
I'm STUPID and NAIVE for even believing that M was something special between two people. That love would conquer all. That family was the most important thing in life and when you made that commitment you just frickin kept trying to make it work.
I'm not ANGRY about the A, I'm ANGRY he just LEFT. I'm ANGRY at this disease of Alcholism because I KNOW how it destroys and there it NOTHING, NOTHING that can be DONE.
I'm ANGRY because STUPID me though I had control. WHAT A LIE. I didn't control anything and I WASTED SO MUCH TIME and ruined so many LIVES because I THOUGHT I could CONTROL.
So since you now recognize you had much less control than you thought you did, why not forgive yourself? You do have that control.
There is nothing wrong with much of what you believed.
You weren't stupid. The stupidity was his... he is the one that lied, he was the one who was deceitful, and he is the person who broke trust.
Yes I WAS. He gave me the ILYBNILWY line back in Sept 06. I sensed within a couple of weeks back in the summer of 06 that he was different, I called him on it, I asked him multiple times if he was having an A. But STUPID me could NEVER believe he could do this.
How frickin sure of myself that he would love me that we would always have our M or at the very least, if we ended it we would end it together. NOT JUST BE THROWN AWAY.
How cocky of me to not act on what I suspected. But I was too caught up in my EN's not being met, I ignored the OBVIOUS and now he is GONE.
So since you now recognize you had much less control than you thought you did, why not forgive yourself? You do have that control.
Because I'm not a wayward living in a fog. I live in reality and see the destruction and damage that has happened in this family and it's almost TOO MUCH for me to bear.
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There is nothing wrong with much of what you believed.
May be not wrong, but certainly not what most people think and therefore I dont' really fit in this world. I don't fit in this world where lives, marriages, etc are thrown away because life becomes to challenging or hard.
Really? Did you really know that ILYBINILWY meant he was having an affair, or is that something you learned after you got here? We can only work with the information we have at any given time. You have learned a lot since all of this began. Would it have been great if you had known it 5, 10, 20 years ago? Absolutely! But you didn't, and that makes a case for not having the experience or information you needed... not stupidity.
Really? Did you really know that ILYBINILWY meant he was having an affair, or is that something you learned after you got here?
No it was after I came here and learned so much.
But I knew, I have known for years he was struggling in his soul. I TRIED everything to make him happy. I'm ANGRY because I thought I could FIX it for HIM and I know today that I COULDN'T. My H is hurting deep in that soul, there is NOTHING I CAN DO, FIX, or TAKE CARE OF.
And because i was such a CONTROL freak, I didn't seek G-d for HELP and ask him what I could do to support my H.
I'm getting closer to putting the 2 x 4 down on myself and just somehow TRUST G-d that there is something better for me on the other side.
And just hold onto my FAITH.
Not done yet feeling sorry for myself, but I am finding my sense of humor inside and I am getting up, walking around and cleaning.
I had to do this, didn't I. I had to face the depth of anger that is inside of me so it could be released and let go of.
I really did do the best I could. And I would have really simply laid down my life for him. I loved him the best I could and I tried my hardest to make him happy.
But like you say Mimi, I have NO CONTROL and I couldn't FIX his LIFE or make him DO ANYTHING, not keep trying, no STAY and work on things, not even be a father to his kids.
I just have to pick up and move forward and ask G-d where to next. And that's all I can do.
We can only fix what we know is broken. The reason you didn't know is because you weren't given the information you needed to address the problems. You weren't able to give him the information he needed to address the problem. You're human! Once you found a better way, you were willing to try it. He isn't. I understand your anger, but at some point you are going to have to forgive yourself.
Do you stay angry when children make a mistake, or do you cut them some slack because they don't know any better? Some of the stuff you are holding against yourself was simply a case of not knowing any better at the time.
Do you stay angry when children make a mistake, or do you cut them some slack because they don't know any better? Some of the stuff you are holding against yourself was simply a case of not knowing any better at the time.
No of course I don't stay angry at them, and I would forgive them and him anything.
You are right, except I took it for granted that there would be a crack ho lurking around who would steal him away. I took him for granted and that was so stupid of me. G-d gave me a gift of my M and my life, family, etc and I didn't appreciate it. And that was WRONG.
Yep... you took your marriage for granted... he did too. I've done it. My husband has done it. My mom has done it. My dad has done it. My brother has done it. His wife has done it. In fact, I can't think of one married couple I know that hasn't at times taken the gift for granted. It isn't rare. No matter how much you took it for granted, he is the one who decided to try to fix it with a "crack ho". That is not something you had any say in or control over. He played a role in the state of the marriage pre-affair, and then walked away from it to continue an affair.
So why are you the only person in this situation that doesn't deserve forgiveness?
Yep... you took your marriage for granted... he did too. I've done it. My husband has done it. My mom has done it. My dad has done it. My brother has done it. His wife has done it. In fact, I can't think of one married couple I know that hasn't at times taken the gift for granted. It isn't rare. No matter how much you took it for granted, he is the one who decided to try to fix it with "crack ho". That is not something you had any say in or control over. He played a role in the state of the marriage pre-affair, and then walked away from it because of an affair.
So why are you the only person in this situation that doesn't deserve forgiveness.
Yes he did. And he screwed up big time on his side, but because he is an addict I don't get resolution or get to feel better by telling him so. I just get to leave it with G-d. Not to mention I don't get to go on his side of the street.
Very good point on why is it that I am the only person who doesn't deserve forgiveness. I get I'm not that special and I deserve forgiveness as much as the next person. I just happen to be the one feeling the destruction and alert to what is happening, like so many others on here, and in order to truly learn from my mistakes I have to be honest for my destruction.
I don't think I am so special, but I am just so very sorry for what I did or didn't do.
Why do you think YOUR FEELINGS or YOUR SITUATION is ESPECIALLY AWFUL?
Because I'm selfish and self-centered. Remember, I'm an addict too.
And because you haven't told me in a while that this is NO DIFFERENT and it's typical. So I get lost in my own perceptions and warped sense of reality that this is ASOLUTELY THE WORST SITUATION on here. VERY DANGEROUS place to be.
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As I've browsed EACH ONE of your posts, I'm struck by how SPECIAL and DIFFERENT that you seem to think you are.
I don't think I am special at all. And if I come acrosse that way, I am very sorry, because I am no different than anyone else on here who has been hurt.
I've gained weight, and I'm angry and sad because I don't have money to buy food that is really on my food plan, I'm stuck eating cheap carbs and walking 4 miles a day doesn't seem to be stopping the weight. So I'm unhappy with myself.
Queenie, it's all about quantiy and moderation. Let's say, those healthy food cost twice as much as your carbs food? And, lets say you eat 6 servings of carbs food a day. You can reduce that to three servings of carbs food and one serving of healthy food. If you do that, you will eat healthy and save money too.
Yes, I know what you're thinking...."I'll be hungry then." The answer is yes, you will be at the beginning, but after a couple of weeks, or even couple of days, your stomach will adjust to it. Don't make a dramatic change immediately, but change slowly and adjust to it. Two key words: Perseverance and Moderation. You can do it.
I just happen to be the one feeling the destruction and alert to what is happening, like so many others on here, and in order to truly learn from my mistakes I have to be honest for my destruction.
I don't think I am so special, but I am just so very sorry for what I did or didn't do.
I can appreciate that, Queenie, but you aren't just taking responsibility for what you did. You are also taking ownership for what he did and didn't do.
On top of that, you are forgiving him and making excuses for him, yet you are withholding forgiveness from yourself and not allowing any reason for your mistakes to be acceptable. You are still trying to control in your own way.
If you haven't read the OT thread I started about "The Dance of Anger", take a look and see if anything there resonates with you.
That's not true. What do you think you have been doing for the past how ever long you've been here on MB? Learning to COPE... AND coping.
Queenie... stop this stinkin thinkin. You KNOW where this path leads. Choose another one. Visualize closing the door on your marriage and walking away. Walking away doesn't mean the door is gone, it's just closed. Maybe, someday, by some miracle if you H comes knocking, you'll open it again, but until then, keep it closed AND locked against WH and all the stinkin' thinkin' that goes along with that.
Queenie... stop this stinkin thinkin. You KNOW where this path leads. Choose another one. Visualize closing the door on your marriage and walking away.
I'm really trying PM. This angry letter just had to get written so I could get out my feelings. I'll move on, I'll go to sleep tonight and recover, like I always do, and maybe this will be what I needed to finally close that door.
You were right too Mimi, I am still trying to CONTROL.
By not forgiving myself is still thinking that I could have changed what happened or controlled it.
Did anyone read that letter from G-d that was posted on Kimberly's thread last week sometime. I sure did. What if this was always G-d plan all along and there was NOTHING I could have done to stop it. This would be a different way of looking at things and not having that stinkin thinkin in it.
But realizing this is all in G-ds plan for whatever reason. I just don't have to like it.
I don't know that this kind of personal devastation is ever G-d's plan. The deceiver has his own plans.
So, you do realize, don't you, that you h made some choices in this situation? It's not totally a mess you created.
Cinders, my H and I were killing each other by the emptiness that existed in each one of our souls. He chose how to "fix" it for him. I sought G-d and learned it was NEVER H's role to "fix" me. It was my relationship with G-d that would heal the hurts and hole that lived inside of me.
I truly believe that my H is fighting for his soul and survival. I get that intellectually, but like Mimi is so good at picking out, I thought I could control the battle myself instead of getting out of the way and letting my H live his own life and fight his own battle.
And the martyr (one of my big character defects), wants to take the blame so I can still control the situation by not just admiting WH is an a$$ who screwed up and hurt many people.
And the truth is I'm frustrated because I can't MAKE WH see what he is doing. It's his LIFE and his CHOICES.. And I want to control what he sees. And I just DON'T GET that CHOICE. As much as I want it.
You were RIGHT Mimi, all along. I still want CONTROL....
I didn't see the letter, but I agree with Cinderella. I don't believe families being torn apart and hearts being broken is God's plan. His plan is found in our healing not our destruction.
It wasn't until I turned my x over to G-d that I started making peace w/in myself and growing.
You can't make h see or do anything.....can't do it. Heavens to Betsy, if G-d can't make His children behave, who are you to think you can get h to see the error of his way and change?
Woman, give him up. Don't stress over his errors. You have tried and tried and "it ain't gettin' you nowhere".
All you can do is let him sort out his own relationship w/ G-d and work on YOUR SELF and YOUR RELATIONSHIP. Would G-d want you to spend so much energy on this that you do not take care of your relationship w/ Him?
All you can do is let him sort out his own relationship w/ G-d and work on YOUR SELF and YOUR RELATIONSHIP. Would G-d want you to spend so much energy on this that you do not take care of your relationship w/ Him?
No Cinders he would NOT.
Nor would he want me to keep beating myself up for crap that is in the past and can't be changed.
All I can do is NEVER repeat those MISTAKES again and somehow learn to love myself for who I am and learn about what I can become.
Hey, The Diplomat has been around since January 2001 - we met Super Bowl Weekend. He lives 1100 miles from me. So, it's sure not helping my SF need. But, at least he will talk to me and listen to me...more than I can say for what's-his-name. You aren't getting me all worked up about The Diplomat.
OK, he is a guy and he can sometimes be sort of self-impressed. I think that's frequently a guy thing.
Because it is not pleasant to get out your mirror, look in it, see what's there, realize who and what you are, and work to be better. That's why lots of waywards are in the fog. The fog is more than affairs. The fog is the stupidity that overcomes them. They get so stupid they can't see who and what they are. And, they can't accept responsibility for the mess they've made and they refuse to do the work to clean up their messes.
It's too much work. It takes strength and guts and they don't have what it takes.
That, or it's easier to say it's all someone else's fault and convince yourself of that than it is to accept responsibility.
Well, then that's his loss and his truest stupidity.
I guess I can be grateful knowing I was willing to work through this and recover our M. And that I did everything I could to save my M. That which I could do.
And that I was willing to truly look at myself and make those changes that needed to be changed.
You wanted more stuff? Here's something to ponder and help me bounce around.
The people who were going to give me an offer on the house don't want to buy it, but they want to rent the house. What are some of the things I need to be considering?
Nope...because a Princess needs someone with some skills....you know, not just anyone would be appropriate for a Princess....think Princess Grace, think Princess Cinderella, think Princess about those folks. Would Ned In The First-Grade Reader have been good enough? Nope, he has to be ....... suitable.
He is suitable.....He looks very nice in a suit. Since what's-his-name had all the fashion sense of a moldy green pea, it is important to find a man who knows how to dress himself. And, one who knows how to take a woman out to dinner. And who is....suitable. And who likes SF. Which is a good good thing!!!! Yes, strategic arms location discussions are very important.
Oh, dear....I have had my shower for the day but I may need another one. Yes, I may need another one.
He says his best color in a suit is dark blue with a light blue shirt (to match his sparkling eyes) and a tie with a yellow stripe to match his beautiful blonde hair.
(NOTE TO ALL: I think he is struggling with the reality that his hair is no longer blonde. Like me, it darkened with age however there is that 'secondary blonde' thing that happens as we become more experienced with life. I regret having given you erroneous information. I was, however, passing on what he said. Ideally, I would have corrected it before passing it on. Well, it is difficult to accept the fact that our bodies are not in the same shape they were in 22.67 years ago.)
Hmmm....Cary Grant was quite fine when he was alive. Pierce Brosnan has really aged since I last scrutinized his photos but he is still nice looking. Antonio Banderas isn't bad. Harrison Ford is quite nice looking for his age though, the last time I heard him speak, I was surprised by the gravelly sound of his voice.
Hmmmm....for what? I don't know that I really have a favorite color though I DEFINITELY have a favorite color combination...always have......since way back in childhood....blue and green....just not olive or chartreuse.
Yeah, I suppose they were so shocked they were driven over the edge. Maybe they had business to attend to before the shower. Maybe, maybe......I don't know.....They get a message from The Diplomat and they disappear. Were they that embarrassed? To have been discussing his suitability or unsuitability and then he shows up after suggestions that he might need to be unsuited?
Yeah I guess Im the odd ball out of this bunch. Atleast at the moment. But oh well life goes on Im just glad I am making friends and have support if needed!!!
The Diplomat is for real. That is the term I coined for the man I have been seeing for several years. It goes back to my Kingdom Of Caerlon thread on the D/D board.
I was uncomfortable with the term boyfriend. I always thought in terms of boyfriends being something you had in your teens or 20s. Not in your....... KWIM? So, I didn't want to call him my boyfriend and I couldn't find another term. Plus, there were other's feelings to take into consideration way back when. So, he became The Diplomat. Wouldn't a princess hang out with a man of caliber and diplomacy and status?
So, since The Diplomat gifted me with 3 nights at a hotel for my vacation, someone thought I was spending them with him but I'm not. I'm spending them with my daughter....it was to be both children but son backed out. If he wants to be that cantankerous, maybe he should stay home (but the computer modem really needs a vacation so I'm not leaving it for him when he comes to deal with the dog. Nope.....no computer for Mister Grumpy Gus.
So, they were teasing me and trying to get info about The Diplomat and I said something about him being suitable for a princess which lead to the comments about unsuitability in the context of the state of dress (suitability) makes SF less easy while the state of undress (unsuitability) makes SF easier.
I would like to lodge a protest that someone started what could have been an interesting turn of conversation, then ran off to have a shower lasting several hours.
Hm, finding The Diplomat unsuited in the snow. That might make things interesting especially since cold often leads to shrinkage. KWIM?
Snow might be fun but I do think more moderate temperatures would be better.
I could see some advantages to a man with tentacles. He could caress more places at the same time. Shiver me timbers!!! Reminds me of the Geena Davis/Jeff Goldblum/Jim Carrey/Damon Wayans movie Earth Girls Are Easy
As my sponsor would get me to see, I am reasonably happy today. And that's ok.
I just got done saying my prayers which include you and your dad. How is he doing?
I went to high holiday choir practice last night and I really know most of the music. I'm getting a CD made for me to practice in between times, which will be more than not.
I'm trying to retrain my brain when things pop in my head, so hopefully that will happen pretty regularly now. I'm tired, tossed and turned, but yesterday was very emotional for me and I was very drained.
My insides seem a little more at peace. I'm looking for guidance from G-d on what to do in some areas of my life and asking him for more helping in letting go of those things I NEED to.
I'm glad football is right around the corner. I'm a little apprehensive about going back to work and having all the drama back in my life, but I'm not a SAHM anymore so all good things must come to an end.
I'm watching what is happening in your life and hoping that G-d's will be done and that you are finding the happiness and blessings that you are so deserved.
{{{{{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}}}
Cinders, how are you this morning? James Bond, depends on which one folks. I have MY favorites, but what about YOU?
First, I have to definately vote for Sean Connery!
Queenie sounds like you are really getting much more grounded these days. Recognizing the challenges and moving forward to face them.
Outstanding!
Dad is doing well, thanks for asking and thanks for the prayes. It's really a miracle from God that we have him with us another day. Each day forward is a gift. For which we are thanking him unceasingly.
I'm tired, but looking forward to making the rest of my 'vacation' with the kids as much fun as possible. Rain here today, so we are switching water park plans to the Science Center. I know DSS is really looking forward to that.
I think I am just working through the more painful stuff again with a different balance inside myself and letting go where I need to and coming to grips and accepting, even when I don't want to. I'm more willing to look at my defects and make changes where I can.
I think you are right, I'm facing the challenges and looking to G-d to walk me through them, because I know that I will survive, I know it will hurt and a good cry will cleanse my soul.
Thank you, I really appreciate your support and guidance a lot.
Is it humid when it rains? We are having some icky weather, seemed like winter last night with the rain and wind.
The Redskins camp started on July 17th. They have lost some key players already at defensive end, but traded for Jason Taylor which should help.
They have their first game against the Colts at the Hall of Fame game. I'm really happy about this game this year as my favorite player, Art Monk is FINALLY being inducted. He is such an amazing person and really deserves this.
Today, I am headed to Vacation Bible School where, yesterday, I was a Levite. Then I will need to go to the chiropractor's. I need to go see my mom. And, thank heavens, I need to pack for my trip to the beach!!!!!!!
Monday's lesson was baby Moses, yesterday was the good Samaritan. This morning was Zaccheus. I don't know what tonight is. Heaven's Queenie! We are related. Go back to Noah...back to Abraham...back to Adam and Eve. Jesus may be the focal point of Christianity but he celebrated Hanukkah. We're related. Every day.
Tonight, I was the leader of the pack.....Lead the children from the puppet/gathering room to the lesson room....and then to the craft room. Then, I got to take the 2s to another room where they could play. I had a wonderful time. I think the itty bitty ones liked me.....
Hey Cinders, I'm glad you are having fun with the kids. The itty bitty ones eventually grow up. Darn it.
Hi Luna, Chai and Pretty,
How are you all doing? I went to a new alanon meeting tonight, spilled my guts and put it out there I need to start working the steps and getting a sponsor. I feel better now that I did that.
Well, family drama at it's best. My house is rented or should be for the next 6 months. Woohoo. However, we need WH's signature. Not sure if he will agree, but hope so.
My house idea is not dead yet. I just leave it alone for awhile.
My BIL evidently came unglued at my YS this week and started yelling at him or talking to his daughter and it became a very ugly scene. He is an active alcoholic and my SIL is up at our family cabin. There is so much dysfunction in that house, but YS seems to have gotten through it ok and doesn't want me to worry, so I am not. He is learning to take care of himself and that's a good thing.
My oldest niece is getting married tomorrow, and I have tried to figure out how to come up with the money, but there is just no way, so I won't be able to be there.
My middle niece has kicked her H out for cheating on here and all WH could muddle, well it actually doesn't matter because I'm not supposed to be thinking about him.
All in all, it's ok and I am grateful that I have almost made it through the day.
Came in today passing out hugs and prayers to all the Amigos and wanted to drop in and spread some love here as well.
I feel your pain every step of this walk, as it seems our paths run parallel on so many occasions.
Not much to add as you're doing spectacular, and you're getting the best of advice from some of the best people.. and most importantly.. you're keeping God at the center of your life. I have every confidence that one day.. probably before you even realize it.. you'll be the shining star, and the wonderful woman God has always envisioned you to be.
I went to a new alanon meeting tonight, spilled my guts and put it out there I need to start working the steps and getting a sponsor. I feel better now that I did that.
I don't know much about AA and alanon meetings... I understand a bit the difference in the objectives, but how different or similar are the 'steps' you refer from one group to the other?
Sounds like you found the meeting encouraging. Keep up the good work, as you seem to have your 'hands full'!
Thanks James for stopping by. I really miss the talks we used to have. Colts are going down this weekend dude, sorry. Our walk does always seem to be so similar and at least we get to help each other through it.
Hi Luna,
Actually the steps are exactly the same, but instead of alcohol I admitted I am powerless over people, places and things and that my life has become unmanageable.
Living in a dry drunk for so many years I had to clean up my side of the street and be able to face G-d. Alanon will help me to learn to understand how I can't CONTROL anyone else and how to learn boundaries, etc, so that when H comes home I won't create the same mistakes that my codependency issues created. Because that was also in play for both of us, we had this dance that was not good and I need to learn new ways of living.
I guess in the end, if I don't work on my alanon, then any relationship I get into will recreate the past because I didn't change myself enough to have a new way of living.
And that's what this was all about for me.. Becoming the woman G-d always envisioned for me.
I am doing ok. DH went to Laredo yesterday morning and came back tonight But hes getting ready to head to El Paso on Sunday or Monday morning for the week I dont like it when hes gone. I just need to see if my boss will let me work early on Thurs and friday and will go from there on the rest... errr But I have a feeling he wont. Cant I just quit?????
I'm ok. This was an interesting day for me. I got to do an amends to someone who wasn't on my list, but I needed to clean this up and apologize for some crappy behavior in the past. It felt good to take care of that as it popped up.
Actually before that, my girlfriend called me up to take me to her workplace and then the strip mall so I would get out of my hole, it was raining today.
So when I got in the car she handed me 600.00 to spend. I was so touched, gracious, but refused. Then she offered it to me again. The OLD me would have taken it in a heartbeat, but the NEW me needs to trust G-d and keep having faith that the money will come in from the state.
If I get desparate I can go to my trustor for money, I might even be getting a dividend check pretty soon, but this was a success because the reality is, I would spend it on things I probably didn't need and I wouldn't have the money for a while and that would put something between our friendship.
It was a growth day for me and I'm grateful to G-d for today.
Now for you quitting. Of course you CAN quit, but the consequences will suck. Do you have to stay at that job, is there something else you could do or better hours? Has school started, could you work there?
You had a very successful day! I am proud of you. I am sure you touched your friend when you turned it down. I know it was a challenge for you overall. The temptation of having that money given to you.
Congrats as well on making amends with someone even if they were not on your list. It still shows you are growing and improving.
Im sure there is, only thing is that the job I get has to be able to atleast pay daycare and be worth the time put into the job! I havent really been looking. We are thinking of taking the house off the market and refinance it. Get our debts in order and go from there. Just gotta keep to the plan. And right now we havent really. With DH trips I want to make sure he has money to get what he needs.
I don't know if I touched her or not. I just knew that I didn't want this between us. I love her alot and she and I have walked through this together. Her H left her around the same time as mine.
You and your H are working on this together, which is awesome, and way cool because it's bonding you two for your future. How amazing is that. In a ways it's giving you an opportunity to do POJA? Would you agree?
There are options out there, but you two discussing them and looking at what's best for all concerend is most important and you can bet that G-d is looking down on you, smiling at the success of your M healing which is most important of all.
No one EVER died from sleep, just perhaps a little grouchy and then of course, you two can find time to take naps together. My father always used to laugh why I always assumed my mom was taking the nap even though they were both laying down together. And the brass bed. OY VEY - such noise from a parents room. LOL
Yes DH and I do the POJA often!! And do only things that are ENTHUSIASTIC *sp* respone too
Tonight it touched me. Since he will be getting ready for a week long road trip he told me that he knows its going to be hard and what can he do to help. I was debating on telling him to clone himself so he can help with the three handfuls we have lol.
DS#1 cleaned my living room and kitchen today. Took DS#2 and DD to destroy it in 5 min tops...
Remember we are here for you and I especially have time to talk to you and keep you awake and moving along.
I have to tell you a story. Shhh.. It's a secret so don't tell anyone. This is how G-d works in my life.
Years ago we were so broke that I was looking for any way to generate money. Our Amway business wasn't moving along and I was desparate. Money in those days was way more important to me and I went crazy with spending it on stuff that was useless in the end.
One of our friends pulled me off to the side and made the comment I should get a 900 number and you know, have PS. In those days, I was so different and well, that's one of the things I am ashamed of was how I looked at things. But lessons learned and boy... So I came home and talked to my H and asked him what he thought about the idea.
Well Mr. Prude, one position, blah. blah.. told me to pray to G-d for my answer. So I did. And literally the next morning I woke up with absolute, total laryngitis for 3 weeks. Guess who didn't go down that road.
Well you took that part of the story well, now the rest. A few years fast forward I was listening to the radio station that H and I always listened to in the morning, but separately. It gave us something to talk about when he would call me every morning to tell me he loved me. I really miss that part of my day.
Anyways, "my boys" were having a discussion on legalizing pot, which because of my background in AA I am totally against. So I called up to talk about it, and after teasing with them for a few minutes the one guy Spike, goes in the back, geez, you could make a mint on your voice.
I just chuckled to myself. Here I had been PTA President, Temple Sisterhood President and 2nd secretary at school in command, busted for PS. Not good headlines...
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Sometimes I question why we have to handle so much all at once.
Because these are the times, these VERY TIMES that G-d wants us to seek him out and let him know we are here for him. I think it was Jacob who said Here I am G-d.
Talk to G-d Pretty, just in an everyday voice, sitting in a chair, lying in bed asking him for guidance on what he needs you to do. Maybe you can give him the problem and let him walk you through it.
Our best thinking got us into these messes, you can trust G-d to help you get out of it. That's what he wants more than anything is a relationship with you.
I was offered with pregnante with DS#1 to be a hostess at a gentlemens club wearing only a nightie :0 I was like yeah right whatever.
Yes I know G-D will help guide and be there.Just some challenges he gives is hard.
I have to try and work on myself for my DH. He loves me now but I want us to continue to recover but right now till I give him teh full A I think we are at a stand point. No we arent fighting or LB's we are spending time together and talking Matter of fact hes painting my toe nails...shhhh dont tell anyone!
Well because of challenges I have alot of character LoL...
Sorry couldnt stay awake last night any longer and basically shuffled off to bed when DH finished up. Today is going to be a looonnnggg day I do not get off of work till 10pm Only day off so far this week is Monday but I am going to see if I can work something out come Thursday since DH is off on another road trip...
I have been having headaches for atleast 4 days now I so need to set up an appt with the drs.
Oh its horrible... Not gaining or loosing right now. I need to get that in order better. Pretty much eat when I eat. I think yesterday was the first day I ate decently in awhile. So yeah that could be a factor just seems with the way my hrs are that things runs into each other.
Alanon will help me to learn to understand how I can't CONTROL anyone else and how to learn boundaries
uhmmmm..interesting...I always thought Alanon was only related to alcohol abuse by another member in a family.... because it sounds like something a BS could use, too, only difference is that the drug of choice is OP!
Sounds like you are doing the best you can and working so hard...keep doing what you are doing, Queenie, and one day, without even realizing it, you will get to the 'other side'.... (at least, that's what I tell myself!)
You know, Luna, my heartbreaks for SL and the pain she is going through. Some days I just feel like I can't do this anymore. But I don't know what to do instead. What are my options, giving up and losing hope or waiting it out and just existing.
Yes, I am building a life. An life empty of sharing it with someone who cares about you, whether you live or die. A person who laughs at you because they see you are silly. I hate days like this when I can't get out of my head.
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uhmmmm..interesting...I always thought Alanon was only related to alcohol abuse by another member in a family.... because it sounds like something a BS could use, too, only difference is that the drug of choice is OP!
It is something we can use because that's exactly what is happening and we have NO CONTROL over this. It truly is the same thing and the pain is exactly the same. But the betrayal, well I think this is something beyond comprehension.
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Sounds like you are doing the best you can and working so hard...keep doing what you are doing, Queenie, and one day, without even realizing it, you will get to the 'other side'.... (at least, that's what I tell myself!)
I'm so trying my hardest to move forward. You and I have the same years as married, do you really believe we are going to recover from this one day?
Don't you worry about me. I'm gonna be just fine. Just a little dip, and I view it as such. This is when I learn the most, ya know. It's always good for peops like you to remind me that I'm not alone, so a most gracious thank you to you Queenie.
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I hate days like this when I can't get out of my head.
Oh, Lawdy lawd, don't I know it. My advise it to get outta yo head, sweetie. Scat! Literally, if you have to put on some jazz and scat, then do it! Dance, sing, laugh, cry, scream, but get outta that head. Let it go for a night--just BE for today. You can always get back in there and overanalyze another day.
Everytime you begin to analyze something from the outer limits, like a WS perhaps, just shake it off. I'm doing it as we speak. (Mimi would be happy to hear me say you gotta shake it off, because it's a quote from her girl Mariah--well she's not Mimi's child, but you get what I'm sayin'!)
You and I have the same years as married, do you really believe we are going to recover from this one day?
Yes, I do, Queenie.
All of us here experience similar feelings...the loneliness, the loss, the regrets, the frustrations, the powerlessness.... and more so then usual when dealing with a WS.
...do what you can to put in place that which will also enable you to experience .... empowerment, pride, joy... plan B, taking care of yourself, sharing....
...but for now, here's just a BIG cyberhug from me to you, QUEENIE, because I think you need one!
3 He said to me, "You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will display my splendor."
4 But I said, "I have labored to no purpose; I have spent my strength in vain and for nothing.
Ever have one of those days when you just feel like it's all for nothing and nothing you have ever done was worthwhile?
Me too!
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Yet what is due me is in the LORD's hand, and my reward is with my God."
Do you know why God has to keep taking the same things from us over and over again?
It's because we come and give them to him and then pick them all back up, pack them in our little bag and strap them onto out own back again.
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13 Shout for joy, O heavens; rejoice, O earth; burst into song, O mountains! For the LORD comforts his people and will have compassion on his afflicted ones.
Sounds like a promise to me...
But sometimes it just doesn't feel like He really cares what happens to me. It's like He has forgotten all about me and my puny little problems.
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14 But Zion said, "The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me."
That's what I'm talkin'bout. Is He even listening when I pray?
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15 "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!
16 See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.
do you really believe we are going to recover from this one day?
Regardless if your WH come back or not YOU will make it through. Lets hope with WH at the end of it!!! Just like YOU made it thru your 12 steps. YOU have done what you can right now for your children.YOU are learning and doing your best by G-D. YOU can make it happien Q. Just keep positive. Yes there are going to be down days. And there will be great days! YOU are a strong women just like all the other ladies here. Everyone has one thing in common right now here. WE all want to work on our M. We are just at different levels. From the short time I have known you Q you have been very strong and I continue to see you grow every day.
((((HUGS)))))
Shabbat Shalom Mark Thank you for your sermon. I felt better after reading it. I hope your evening is going good!
All of us here experience similar feelings...the loneliness, the loss, the regrets, the frustrations, the powerlessness.... and more so then usual when dealing with a WS.
Boy, isn't that the truth. Some of those feelings are the hardest to deal with. It's just a process that doesn't happen over night and as much as we want it to all go away it won't for a long time. Unfortunately we have to go through it, because there is no way around it.
Hang in guys. I'm glad that I found all of you to go through it with me. Not sure where I would be if I hadn't found this place.
Not sure where I would be if I hadn't found this place.
This thought makes me shudder... TOO dark a place for me to go!
....many times, it's been MY lifeline...
...and it gives me once again a chance to remind the BOARD the importance it has in a LOT of people's lives...
...although it's hard to do, CL, it becomes important to embrace those feelings...they are a part of us...they are wanting to help us 'get back on track'....I try and see them as 'messenger' and their presence/intensity as a measure of how far I have come!
...just 'ignoring' them won't work (in fact, it makes it worse, like little kids that need to be 'heard' and won't drop the ball until they are).... BS needs to work at creating a safe enough environement and reassuring them they are being taken seriously so they won't need to 'come up'...LOL!
...given the 'magnitude' of the BS experience....unfortunately, this process takes a lot of work and time and FAITH....and why every «little victory» in the right direction..COUNTS...LOL!
...sorry if it sounds like I am not making much sense and...
..just 'ignoring' them won't work (in fact, it makes it worse, like little kids that need to be 'heard' and won't drop the ball until they are)
Some of us have a hard time remembering things. As I get older I see myself simply forgetting things that once would have been easy to recall.
There are many things that I have set out to remember and some of those I can recall many years later.
There are somethings that I remember simply because the were unforgettable.
But have you ever tried to forget something?
Let's see how this works...
Don't think about what I just said.
Made you think about it, didn't I?
It's like when the judge instructs a jury to ignore what someone just said in the courtroom.
Yeah; right...
The only way something can be relegated to our non-current memory is for it to be replaced by something more current. Even then it remains, but if we TRY to ignore a memory, it will remain forever...
So CL, and Queenie too, you have to go out and replace those bad thoughts with something better for them to remain in the background. If they come to the foreground, it is because you are not doing something else.
Our task switcher can really only do one thing at a time. There is no multitasking. We only think one thought at any given instant. So if we do something that requires us to think, we will not forget those bad things, but won't be thinking about them...
But we can intentionally replace things in our thought cue with other thoughts by choice. So when we have that stinkin' thinkin' show up, we can choose to think about something else, but it needs to be something that requires thought and not just something we can take for granted.
List the projects you want to get done. Visualize a piece of paper and envision yourself writing them down. Change colors of ink every other line or practice your calligraphy skills along the way. You don't have to use projects. You can make up your shopping list. Just choose to dwell on some other topic that requires concentration. The bad thoughts will return, but the more you can think about other things, the less they will intrude and one day, you might make it all day without even having them in the front of your mind...
There is no multitasking. We only think one thought at any given instant...
I agree with Mark...and I actually COUNT on this....and thoughts can come and go VERY quickly...
From experience, I have found that 'acknowledging' a thought/memory at the FACTUAL level, when it has the least impact, rather then ignoring it, and LEARN to quickly, CONSCIOUSLY, CHOOSE another thought, BEFORE reaching the unpleasant EMOTIONAL level of the thought/memory in question, that with time, we get better and better at doing it... and supposedly one day, we will be able to say...
«Yeah, WS had an affair and it WAS very painful at the time... please pass the butter»!
I can't remember, but there was an article circulating about this very topic and PTSD (which is where I probably picked it up the idea)....
I will try to find it... it's worth the read... and it discusses the very concept Mark talks about...I remember finding the info. VERY ENCOURAGING INDEED! ....it provided a PLAN on how to deal with unwanted unpleasant THOUGHTS, charged with, let's say, NEGATIVE energy!
What a gift from G-d that total strangers who would have NEVER met in our other lives are totally annilated by one common thing which brings us together for probably the rest of our lives in some cases. At the very least during the darkest times.
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This thought makes me shudder... TOO dark a place for me to go!
I go there because I want to REMEMBER how important this place is and the promises I make to you all so I can keep moving forward. And that means you Mimi. I haven't forgotten my promise and I WON'T.
Hi Pretty, Chai and Mark,
I so need to see your words of encouragement and thank you. Mark your wisdom never ceases to amaze me. However, being a school secretary I would argue the non multitasking. I don't know how I could do my job without it, BUT I understand your point.
My frustration is this money issue. I am a spoiled brat and honestly want stuff handed to me. I'll own up to it. I won the case in court and my selfishness thinks that WH should just fork over the money and make my life easier, after all he did this. But that's just insanity and I have to learn to take care of myself. I was learning to do that before he started taking the money away. I was getting pedicures, manicures, going places, creating fun in my life. But now I am stuck, it's the 2nd of the month and I have maybe 50.00 left after allowing 100.00 for food and gas and bills, and that still doesn't include my cell phone bill.
So the princess in me, and yes princess because it isn't so regal isn't pissed about struggling. I've done if for a few months now and it's lost its "newness". But I'm too scared, too lazy, to whatever to just go out and create money for myself. But I have changed that, I am signing up a new distributor and having a health expo to get people on my retail.
There is without a doubt a ying yang in me. I go a couple of steps forward, and farther away from WH, doing just awesome and then I stop and take steps back because I don't want to move away from him. So I just have to keep praying and stay closer to G-d on this one.
My plan as much as I don't want it, has to be building a life fore myself and my children where I can take care of myself and I am this silly spoiled brat who wants to be taken care of. I have ALWAYS been taken care of and now it's my turn to fight my way to take care of myself so I can be proud of my accomplishments.
Feelings, I hate them. But you are so right Luna, they are here to teach us something and stubborn me keep procrastinating at the lessons trying to find a softer, easier way and there just isn't.
I am strong, I have a deep strength and commitment to my children and my M. I am struggling to find that commitment to myself, but each day I ask G-d for guidance.
What a journey indeed.
I loved your sermon as well Mark. This GODDESS with her HEAD UP, CHEST OUT, has been cleaning her apt, getting ready to go back to work. I ran a few errands and is looking to grab Torah for awhile and read that Psalm along with the torah portion for the week and just be frickin grateful for what I do have, because I am one blessed person.
I bet it wouldn't hurt to go back to writing my gratitude list and remembering to thank G-d for all those blessings, because it really could be worse.
I'm good. Trying to NOT CONTROL, LET GO, and MOVE ON.
My HEAD's UP, CHEST OUT and I'm working on my stinkin thinkin.
I'm not UNIQUE, but I am SPECIAL, because EVERY ONE is SPECIAL.
I'm trying to look at what's blocking me from moving on and I think the spoiled brat attitude, along with fear, laziness. But I can change my ways and learn to recognize and keep walking forward.
My favorite player, Art Monk is about to be inducted into the Hall of Fame and I am so happy for him. He is amazing, and deserves this.
I'm trying to look at what's blocking me from moving on and I think the spoiled brat attitude, along with fear, laziness. But I can change my ways and learn to recognize and keep walking forward.
Yes,,, not only CAN you change, but don't forget to look back and bask in the positive changes you have already made!! That always helps boost me on when I face another difficult step forward.
Enjoy your last few days of vaca,,,even if the sun isn't cooperating!!
LOL on the "spoiled brat" attitude. I'm living a little of that myself these days. I too was used to the good life and now have to make every penny count. On the one hand, it's been good for me, on the other I HATE IT. I can't shop like I used to, which is something I've always loved to do. UGH
How was your weekend? Mine went pretty good I think. Achieved one road bump and moving foward as I see it.
Cant wait to chat it up for a bit! Busy day here though. Need to fold laundry, the ugly B word *bills*, plan the kids back to school stuff and get ready for my work week. DH left this morning for El Paso so I am solo for a week.
I hope you had a great weekend. Thanks for checking up on me. I am doing ok. Not GODDESS great, but that's just this morning and I still have my prayers.
Last evening ended interestingly. I got a call from my DD who said I needed to get her to the hospital because she might be having an appendics attack. It was a half an hour until I needed to get to AA meeting to make coffee, so I got everything all taken care of.
Smartie, this is for you. It was a half hour BEFORE the Skins-Colts Game. (Hi James and Smartie)
In the car I was trying to keep my DD occupied, but she really wasn't having much pain so I knew it wasn't her appendics. Her BG came along and as soon as he got in the car I could smell the POT on him. POT was my drug of choice.
So we got there, and she insisted that I go into the examing room with her where I found out she quit taking BC pills over 6 months ago. UGH... I nearly died. I believe I handled it pretty well.
I did tell her BF to keep his you know what you know where in no uncertain terms. I am very upset by this for a few reasons. One of which is Plan B doesn't matter because he is DEAD. The other is my DD went through this a year ago. She got pregnant and made her choice. She feels guilty over it - please no debate on this, and I believe is trying to fix the situation by getting pregnant.
This is her life, is the sole bread winner in her apt, 2 boys dealing drugs for income live there as well. She simply doesn't get the mess that would create. One of them is BF, and he had NO JOB. My DD doesn't have a family that will take care of her or the baby, heck I am barely taking care of myself with the two boys. Still NO MONEY.
The social worker believes my DD is crying out for help, but I don't know how to help her. My sponsor doesn't believe its a cry for help and she just frustrated me last night, plus I was exhausted, tired, hungry and lonely. The deadly sins to an AA.
My sponsor felt like I was making too much about me, but she is happily married and just simply doesn't understand the loss of not just my husband, my best friend, but the father of my children. A up until a little over a year ago I had a complete partner, well at least until the A and now NOTHING.
I'm not sure how I am going to handle this. I'm just looking to G-d for his will of me and the knowledge to carry it out because that really is all I can do.
I hope you all had a great weekend. It's sunny today and tomorrow, my last two days of vacation, guess what I am doing.
I dont wanna go thru that when my DD gets older Just heartbreaking to a point. She shouldnt need to feel the void she needs to get her life in order married then bring in children. Anways off that subject.
What do you think your DD is doing? A cry for help?
You sound depressed or at least down for the most part today. Enjoy your last 2 days of vacation and soak up some rays I know if I had a pool I would be doing that now!
The BBQ was nice. I got there late only cause of work and well we stayed till about 1am. The kids were worn out. LoL. And they enjoyed it as well. I work pretty much this week. Thank goodness my mom is going to help me with the evenings since no one to watch the babies at night.
Today Ethan gets a shot at the drs .... Gonna have to reward him with ice cream afterwards!
My DD is crying for help because she is PISSED and MISSES her DAD. She understands more than anyone what this loss is, she gets this is a MONSTER and not her dad and she won't grieve it. She handles it like the rest of the kids who are just like their DAD, push it under the table, and forget they are there.
So she acts out in dangerous, destructive ways which is the exact same way their dad deals with stuff when in pain. I.E. the A.
I read you are on your own for the week, but I am glad that your mom is going to be there. Is there anything I can do?
I will at least go relax and just sit still and wait for answers to come to me.
I have prayed and given it to G-d. Now I just need to wait for answers on what my role is, if any. I hope so, my DD needs me but in a healthy way, not to fix it, ridicule, reprimand even though I want to just flipping SHOUT...
I'm glad you had fun yesterday. It's important to have fun in our lives, isn't it.
Just keep me in your thoughts that I will be patient with the kiddos. Especially when I am very tired.
I wish I knew what to say about your DD. I wish you could get her to some counseling to help talk about her grief. I will keep you in my thoughts and hope you are guided in the right direction.
Yeah I am hoping to have a full weekend off and we are going to go camping with this darn humidity. ACK lol. But the kids have been asking to go camping and DH and I need the break from the city life for the weekend. That or we were thinking if we could afford it drive to either Dallas or Tucson AZ.
Try to talk to G-d this week and pray on where he wants you to go. Let him LEAD you and your family.
I can just wait for the answer for her.... not much else as I need to be careful and use my new learned tools in life.
I read this the other day in my meditation book. I really enjoyed it.
From Melody Beatty in Letting Go.
Sometimes, to get from where we are to where we are going, we have to be willing to be in-between.
We are moving forward even when we are in between.
Today, I will accept where I am as the ideal place for me to be. If I am in-between, I will strive for the faith that this place is not without purpose, that it is moving me toward something good.
Awww Queenie. Whoever said life would get easier when they became adults? That's the big secret... there is no guarantee that it will!
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My DD is crying for help because she is PISSED and MISSES her DAD. She understands more than anyone what this loss is, she gets this is a MONSTER and not her dad and she won't grieve it. She handles it like the rest of the kids who are just like their DAD, push it under the table, and forget they are there.
It hurts to see our kids hurting, especially when they won't talk about it. But once they're adults, the best we can do for them is to be there for them when they ask for advice and to let them learn from their own mistakes. I'm still having a rough time with this one myself when it comes to my youngest DD.
But the cool part PM, is that we can come here and find comfort with others who understand and are with you as you learn to let go and allow them their mistakes.
However drastic.....
The true meaning of love..... letting go....
I think I HATE love... you know what I mean... the feelings UGH...
Today, I will accept where I am as the ideal place for me to be. If I am in-between, I will strive for the faith that this place is not without purpose, that it is moving me toward something good.
Thanks for the thought, Queenie. I like this.
It makes me feel less like a 'sitting duck'!
I have heard about the book and think I will try and get a copy.
The secret isn't accepting where you are as much as understanding where you are going.
Dave Ramsey talks about how when you are water skiing they tell you to look where you want to go because you end up going where you look. If you look down, that is where you end up.
In bull riding riders are told the same thing, look ahead, not at the ground. If you begin to look for a place to land when you fall off, you will fall off.
In Psalm 23 David talks about going through the valley of the shadow of death. It wasn't where he wanted to be and he wasn't accepting of the place he was. Rather he looked forward to where he knew he was being led. His hope came not from acceptance but from faith in what God had promised.
When Abraham was told to go up the mountain with his son and sacrifice him there, it wasn't acceptance of losing his son that caused him to have faith, but rather was the knowledge that God had said that his descendants would become a great nation and a blessing to all mankind.
Hope comes not from accepting where you are but from believing you are going somewhere better.
The wilderness is a miserable place, but when your goal is a promise of God, it becomes merely a part of the journey.
A country and western song of a couple years back became my theme song...
When you're goin' through h3ll Keep on movin...
Faith isn't being accepting of where you are but being content with what God has promised. It is where He is taking you that matters. It's knowing that where ever He takes you is the best place you can be...even when it isn't where you wanted to go when all this began.
You don't have to accept the valley of darkness or be content with where you are as long as you know that God is with you and is taking you through to the other side.
Not because you know where you are going, but because He knows where He is going and is taking you along and that is a safe and wonderful place to be.
Hope is not in where I am but in the promise of Jer 29:11. Whatever He has planned it is good for me, even best for me, though it might not be what I had picked for myself.
But I don't know what He knows or I would be Him.
And I'm not...which is why I can trust His promises.
You don't have to accept the valley of darkness or be content with where you are as long as you know that God is with you and is taking you through to the other side.
Not because you know where you are going, but because He knows where He is going and is taking you along and that is a safe and wonderful place to be.
Thanks Mark, I do understand what you are saying. I talked to my business associate who is very spiritual and actually walked me along this very same thinking.
I should be grateful that G-d is with me and I'll be ok and just relax and let him have the wheel.
So, here I am back at work. And it's 91 degrees outside. Off in 15 minutes and heading to the pool.
I am so happy for what is happening your life. It brings me so much hope as you can imagine.
Mark is so amazing with his words. I still do the struggle with seeing what G-d sees, but I'll save that for another day, and maybe ask G-d what he sees in me so I can know.
From everything that Mark said, this is what I think we all struggle with THE MOST.
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even when it isn't where you wanted to go when all this began.
We focus on the loss, the past, where we thought we WERE going. Right now is what we know, and is all we have to go on, and that can be painful and scary. FAITH, however, that we are heading to where we need to be, and that we will reap the benefits of walking this line, is where it's at. It's the FEAR that holds us down.
I have fears of more loss, and whatever that levels upon me. The reality is that there is more mourning to be done, more losses to incur. It's the nature of separation, in my case, divorce. It's a nasty business that wreaks havoc on all facets of your life. It just plain stinks.
I have faith that I will be happier on the other side of this; that I will have all I need, and may have what I want in ABUNDANCE.
Queenie, IT really is going to be okay, whatever IT is.
We are so in this together, supporting each other, feeling each others' pain at times and moving through it. We just simply get to keep walking in FAITH because the alternative is ICKY and I like you, Luna, Chai and so many others choose not to go there.
Chai, I am no pack leader, I'm just someone like you who just wants to make it through this with as much in tact as possible, like my ability to love another man, my ability to love myself, my ability to keep seeing good in people and life and to know that when it's all said and done we walked through this with grace and dignity and became people of G-d, who can be very proud of us. Nothing special.
We can keep each other moving when life just takes us down a little more than we hoped. I know I am here for you.
You are one special lady and G-d has something magnificent planned for you. No, Mark is right, it may not be what we want, but it will be what we need.
And all we have to do is keep walking in FAITH....
All the MBers here remind me of a wagon train going through the desert. We're all going through H, so we have to keep on moving.
Great analogy. And just consider those of us who have been through the fire ahead of you as the trailblazers. We've been there. We've seen the dangers that lie ahead and we can help you get through to where you need to go.
Queenie, I've watched your progress as well. Go back and read your threads at the beginning. You HAVE come such a long, long way. Sometimes may feel like babysteps or steps backwards, but mostly you've made a lot of forward movement!
The only major flaw I see is that you're not a Cowboys fan.
Is it bad you think that I have the first measure of the Monday Night Football theme as my startup sound on my work PC?
What are you kidding me? From the woman who would get it as her ring tone on her phone if she could afford it because they don't have Hail to the Redskins yet. Yes, I would give up dinner for that one.
And from the woman, whose DD knew what a choice it was to take her to the hospital instead of staying home and watching a preseason game.
Well, I was raised on Idaho potatoes, personally. Although I do like red potatoes or new potatoes in some things. They are really good in a low country boil of shrimp, corn on the cob, sausage, and potatoes.
Posted this on ark's BE STILL thread.. but I thought you might appreciate it in particular:
Originally Posted by Jamesus
Ok.. this very thread has contributed quite a bit to the peace that I have managed to scratch out for myself in the year that I have been struggling with my lovely and otherwise very intelligent wife's betrayal and destruction of my family.
I've been trying to find a way to give back along the way and find myself increasingly posting hope to others who find themselves in this terrible situation.
I found something in my devotional 'internet browsing' today from a website designed to help Christians understand Hebrew a little better.. so the info about the translation comes from there.. I'll paraphrase so as not to infringe on any copyright.
When I read the words BE STILL.. I am immediately reminded of Psalm 46:10 - 'Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.'
The premise of the verse has been debated as to whether or not it is a call to meditate/pray/etc on God.. or if it's something else... something different.
After reading the Hebrew information it becomes clear that the verse isn't so much about meditation as it is the MEDIATION of God in our lives.
The command to 'Be Still' comes from the Hebrew - Hiphil stem of the verb rapha. Rapha is an interesting verb, because in english verbs denote 'action' but in this case the meaning is to be weak, to let go, to release.. and so the pure translation of 'Be Still' might better be translated as 'Let go', 'Humble yourself', 'Be weak before God'... and this furthers my earlier devotion today about the pitfalls of pride in those who stand for their marriages, looking at themselves as better or superior in the eyes of others and God, rather than humbling themselves and working on our BS stuff first.
But in the end, why are we commanded often in the Bible to Be Still, let go, surrender and what many of us struggle with.. to die to ourselves. The Hebrew grammar places emphasis in this verse on the imperative to Be Still, and then KNOW becomes the second imperative. In other words, we MUST surrender ourselves to God in order for Him to fully take control and reveal His blessings in our lives. He is Ribbono Shel Olam - the master of the universe.. we must give up trusting in ourselves and our own designs in order to experience God's power in our lives.. (reference: Exodus 14:14)
Just got caught up on your thread and thought I'd say HI!
...and, yes, we're all 'hanging in' together...
I remember, given the 'lows' of being a BS, that one of my biggest fears was that the trauma I experienced due to the affair had broken my spirit... something that I cherished dearly and knew I needed not only to continue on but to experience joy again... that, and my sense of responsibility was what gave me the strength to go into....PLAN B, and start the climb back up!
uhmmmm....didn't realize that a bunch of you had the football bug...and as I see, not all for the same team! :RollieEyes:
...and guess, we can expect more of the same with the season starting!?!
...well...it will at least help with the....'keeping busy' category
...and I don't know what parts of the body Cind is referring to...
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Instead of pulling on their own genitalia, the players whack each other on the gluteus maximus!
Luna, my spelling may be off but, in my opinion, baseball players can't keep their hands off their own parts exposed in frontal nudity and football players can't keep their hands off each others' "buns".
Doing good. I had a hard week with just me and kiddos. But DH made it up with a pedicure and of coarse I had to get my nails filled in.
We have come to some agreements on what we are going to do with the house. We are going to call the realtor tomorrow and take it off the market and then refi the house payments. Im gonna work for a bit to get debt paid off and then I am gonna quit and stay home for a bit. Maybe pick up a part time job here and there. I just hate the fact that I am missing Bethanee grow up. And I want to be home with my boys come home from school.
I dont know if you have been reading my recovery post. I am just dealing with some trust issues with DH. Other then that WE are doing pretty well!!!
I see you are doing pretty good too! Im very proud of you. How was your week overall?
I'm so glad you to have come to some agreements that seem to be putting more assurance in your life of where you are going. That's awesome and your children deserve to have you home. It's the best possible situation.
Overall, my week was FABULOUS. I love being back at work and it helped that the weather was crappy.
I'm so excited watching what is happening over on Bug's thread that I am having more hope in my life for us.
I want that miracle.
What are you doing this weekend other than taking the house off the market.
Yes I am very happy for Bugs! I havent answered in her post but have been reading it.
One day that will be you. Just keep doing what you are doing for now Queenie. You have come along way. You are a better person to yourself and improving every day!
I work tomorrow from 2p to 10p. Unfortantly wont be able to do a nice dinner but maybe lunch if I have time
Im off sunday and I plan to do NOTHING well maybe clothes but thats about it!
Glad your week was great. And returning to work wasnt to crazy.
I have requested to have that evening off. I also have next weekend fully off!
I want to bring in Shabbat with family next week.
Just realized theres alot of I's in here lol.
I am not sure what I want to make tomorrow for lunch. I just missed my hubby so much I just want to be with him. Of coarse he usually lets me sleep in till about noon. Then we rush lunch and off to work I go...
Just keep praying to G-d. He hears you Queenie and what he can do is help guide you to lead yourself thru this.
While I am excited as can be with the turn of events for Bugs I would warn of one thing...
Happily ever after hasn't happened yet...
If he is willing to do the hard work, they might be able to pull it off.
If Bugs has the energy left, they might be able to make it...
In about two years or so.
I haven't posted to Bugs yet because I haven't been reading her thread all along and really need to absorb some of what has gone on already before jumping in with a high five.
I see a man who is pretty much broken, but maybe not yet low enough to do what it will take.
And it will take much more from him than just wanting to go home.
Anybody remember the phrase "No expectations!"...
She, and everyone here, needs to...
G....o ... ... s.....l.....o.....w.....
AS JL might say, she needs to decide based on the data...
Thanks Mark were putting words to what I also was thinking....as it's part of what a BS needs to do to NOT add to the pain already there...yet not lose HOPE!
Intellectually I see what you are saying, I realize I am in that place where I would just like the chance to have what's happening and sadly probably would take him back before he hit rock bottom.
I see where being desparate, or wanting something so bad can be a place where you do allow yourself to be hurt again. I'm seeing this all from Bugs heart, which is NOT the place to be.
She is getting amazing advice and it's awesome for me to be able to just witness it and wish it could be over here with me. But I also get that seeing it from the heart, moving to fast, etc. is being out of G-ds will and that's something that I ABSOLUTELY have to be careful of, no matter how much I want it.
For me, that will be the real test of my commitment to my G-d. Having this opportunity and letting G-d take care of it instead of me fixing it, controlling it, manipulating it etc.
I could feel myself feeling sorry for myself and starting to go down that sad, useless path.
So, I thought of you, and after procrastinating, I called two old friends to spend time with them, but they are out having fun together. So, instead of continuing down that path, I called someone else and we are going out shopping for the day. Don't have any money, but I can help her spend hers.
I'm changing... and it's good. And I am learning to take care of myself by not going down that path when I can stop it.
Hope you had a good time shopping. I wish I had lots of money because I think you would be the perfect person to help me spend it!! I know you have good taste in everything.
Girl, you have come so far it amazes me. Keep leading the way....
I LOVE to help people spend their money. It's good for them. I had a blast with her. She is so sweet and I love being around her, she is caring, hurting inside and I can just offer an ear and love.
I bet you have awesome taste Chai. Actually we just went to Goodwill in Seattle. Its a huge place to shop. I found a couple of good books, the holy scriptures (Jewish style), a book for my grandchildren on Jewish prayers, a book by Max Lucado - When G-d whispers your name, a Just for Today book from NA, Awaken the Giant Within, Compulsive Overeaters Anonymous book. And a pair of shoes. I did pretty good for under 20.00.
I had three pairs of shoes, but I chose the books over the shoes.
The Redskins are about the kick off and I am texting the kid who bought my seats for this year. He's really enjoying himself which is awesome for me. I know he loves my skins as much as me.
I am glad you detoured a bit this weekend in the low path. If you can pull yourself out either by yourself or with friends its a good way to go
I am doing pretty good. On my only day off my boss calls me and starts a fight over the phone with me. I am just glad I do not see him till Wed or I would tell him where to go! I fill in for the next two days at another store.
I did talk to a higher level about the stress my boss has been putting on me and he couldnt believe what he heard. I told him I think I need to be moved to a different store and somethign closer to my house. He said he would look into it. So we shall see.
We are going to make Challa on Thursday together as a family! Unfortantly I probally wont be home to watch them make it but it will work out!
I have decided next weekend *I requested it off and no matter what will be off* I am going to not answer my phone if its work calling I am not going to answer any phone unless its family. I am so strung out. And it looks like I have to atleast work another 6 months or so before I can actually stay home. ICK.
How much is the scroll that we tuck inside the mezuzah cost? I need to find one for mine. When I rec'd it, it came with one but the kids have misplaced it before I could put the mezuzah up and I really want to put it up on my doorpost.
I can email you the reciepe if you would like it. I have not used this one yet but you use honey, of coarse yeast, veg oil, eggs and flour. mix it up let rise for a bit and cook it.
Just wanted to say hi, and let you know Istill come and read your thread from time to time, I just dont have enuff time to post. anyway I think your doing real well, and you still inspire me
So, you have to buy a special scroll to put in your mezuzah? (forgive me if I didn't spell that right) Well, I didn't know that.
I can do calligraphy. I would make you one if that was allowed but, not being Jewish, I get it wouldn't be right. Bummer. I would find a special blessing for your home. One for peace and love.
BTW, the rabbi from the Orthodox synagogue across the street from where I go to church will be speaking to my congregation Wednesday evening. He is good friends with the minister at my congregation. We have worked with them on some charitable efforts. The first was a donation effort for Katrina/Rita victims a few years ago. Phil and Saul drove a truck to Mississippi for victims. Phil suggested that some of the items be taken to a synagogue there but Saul said the churches would have more need.
Can you imagine the Orthodox rabbi and a conservative Christian minister cooped up in the cab of that truck for 16 hours. I bet those were some interesting conversations.
So, you have to buy a special scroll to put in your mezuzah? (forgive me if I didn't spell that right)
Actually you did spell it right. And yes, a certain prayer comes in a mezuzah. If it comes on "real" paper its a lot of money, if it copied, it's cheap, dirt cheap.
The mezuzah is not, as some suppose, a good-luck charm, nor does it have any connection with the lamb's blood placed on the doorposts in Egypt. Rather, it is a constant reminder of G-d's presence and G-d's mitzvot.
The mitzvah to place mezuzot on the doorposts of our houses is derived from Deut. 6:4-9, a passage commonly known as the Shema (Heb: Hear, from the first word of the passage). In that passage, G-d commands us to keep His words constantly in our minds and in our hearts by (among other things) writing them on the doorposts of our house. The words of the Shema are written on a tiny scroll of parchment, along with the words of a companion passage, Deut. 11:13-21. On the back of the scroll, a name of G-d is written. The scroll is then rolled up and placed in the case, so that the first letter of the Name (the letter Shin) is visible (or, more commonly, the letter Shin is written on the outside of the case).
The scroll must be handwritten in a special style of writing and must be placed in the case to fulfill the mitzvah. It is commonplace for gift shops to sell cases without scrolls, or with mechanically printed scrolls, because a proper scroll costs more than even an elaborately decorated case ($30-$50 for a valid scroll is quite reasonable). According to traditional authorities, mechanically printed scrolls do not fulfill the mitzvah of the mezuzah, nor does an empty case. Personally, I do the copy version if I don't get one because of my budget and I think having one is more important than not.
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Can you imagine the Orthodox rabbi and a conservative Christian minister cooped up in the cab of that truck for 16 hours. I bet those were some interesting conversations.
Queenie, this is all so interesting. I've been learning just reading what you guys read. It's funny though because my DH has been going to a guy's home each Friday night and they've been studying the Jewish culture, the Torah, etc. and how it relates in so many ways to they way things are today.
The group is a hodgepodge of people from different religious backgrounds including, Catholic, a former Orthodox Jew, non-denominational, Messanic Jews, a former athesist, etc. I haven't been because of my schedule, but it sounds interesting.
He came home one night and mentioned something (I forget now what it was) and I was able to say, oh yeah, I knew that. He was like, really? How did YOU know that? I told him that I've learned some things from reading your thread.
Anyway, just thought you'd like to know how you unknowingly have been teaching me a few things. I have always loved the Jewish people and their culture and traditions.
He came home one night and mentioned something (I forget now what it was) and I was able to say, oh yeah, I knew that. He was like, really? How did YOU know that? I told him that I've learned some things from reading your thread.
Wow, this is very cool. I think I am learning alot about other faiths being on here as well. It might not change who we are, but it certainly helps us be more understanding and accepting of our differences. At least for me.
But then there is the Redskins deal, eh? :RollieEyes:
About the kosher scroll price: My soon to be synagogue's gift shop charges $25 for a kosher scroll. I purchased mezuzot for each entry door to my house. Since April I've been in the process to convert to Conservative Judaism. I am trying to do things correctly, while not being extravagent.
Not certain when this process will be complete; there are several steps to take, among them learn a little Hebrew. My brain is kinda old and stiff, doesn't take kindly to new information.
Saving my shekels for trip to Israel in February 2009, so not buying luxury mezuzot or any other stuff.
Since April I've been in the process to convert to Conservative Judaism. I am trying to do things correctly, while not being extravagent.
Are you a Jew by choice? Or converting to a different sect?
My friend who converted many years ago, did it very simply, one step at a time. So keep it simply and know you are doing your best as you move forward.
Before I moved to WA, my family and I belonged to a conservative temple. When we moved here we joined a reformed one, but my heart really belongs with conservative. The only saving grace is that I can be as observant as I like with reform.
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Saving my shekels for trip to Israel in February 2009, so not buying luxury mezuzot or any other stuff.
Saving my shekels for trip to Israel in February 2009, so not buying luxury mezuzot or any other stuff.
Wow, I am planning to go next year as well.
This is going to be helpful in keeping you busy and focused on the good things in life (but more importantly....it makes it EASIER to NOT focus on....other things! )
Hi Queenie,I haven't forgotten you! I still read your thread,glad to see you hanging in there....
I know you also get daily devotionals from a website(don't know if I can mention it!!).What do you think of their thoughts on posting on chat sites like MB.They don't like the idea of discussing all that the WW is doing "with the rest of the world".I personally don't come on here to bad-mouth my WH, more to gain support and knowledge from the vets and others in the same boat.It did make me think a bit though...we don't use our 'real" names etc so are we doing anything wrong from a Godly perspective?What are your thoughts on this?
In the New Testament, we are exhorted to pray for one another, confess to one another, and to help one another. The older men and women (the ones w/ more experience) are to teach the younger ones.
Queenie, a Jew by choice. Taking classes, doing this one step at a time, and Conservative is my path.
Very cool. How did you decide on the conservative path?
Do you have a sisterhood that you are connected to for support?
I am hoping to make aliyah next spring vacation or summer, not sure what my budget will allow.
Quick catch up, I have been doing my best to keep my focus off of WH. He still hasn't given any money. My A has not contacted me back and the state is working on it. The bad news is it's taking a toll on my spirit and my food is AWFUL.
The good news is that I am moving forward signing people up in my business and working the retail end a littel more diligently. But its so out of my comfort zone that I am struggling.
My YS comes home on Tuesday and I will be so glad to have him back, but then there is the feeding him and he won't like what food we have in the home. I'll just keep praying for a solution by then.
Intro's thread on BS taking the blame has just knocked me for a loop and all those bad feelings and blame has really sent me spiralling. I am working hard to just keep going through, let go and let G-d, but it's done a number on me for sure.
It's supposed to be hot, 90 degree hot for the next couple of days, thank goodness I have nothing planned for the weekend and can pretty much vegetate at the pool.
Sorry it's not better news, but it's not the worst and I know enough to keep moving and know it will get better. I just have to keep praying for faith and courage.
Just keep positive on things as hard as it maybe. Dont push yourself and do baby steps.
Im sure YS will understand its a hard time right now and will do his best to be patient. Just guide him and tell him that you are doing your best and one day this will be a distant memory.
As for Intros thread I see where you are feeling down and out about it. But you know YOU tried everything and was working on a more happy M when WH decided to uproot and leave. Each person here is different in many ways yet the same. We are/have been hurt by something that isnt right in the M. Intro has alot of pain to work thru that you are ahead in many stages if WH was to return. Hes questioning alot of things and doesnt realize its his pain even if he doesnt feel it or express it.
The weather here is hot. And I do not look foward to going to work and running around cleaning up after people when they make messes at the store.... I wish there was a pool here. Maybe if the weekends nice we will go over to my moms and use her pool.
Hugs and well unfortantly I have to get ready for work or I would chat it up.
I'm sorry its so hot by there. I can only imagine what it's like. Well, yes I know. I am from the east coast and I know it's nasty.
I applied for food stamps today. I might be eligible for over 450.00. That would certainly help me with the boys. Evidently the government either raised or lowered the poverty level and I am totally there now.
How special. Actually I am pretty grateful. Hopefully I will hear something soon.
I can honestly say, of course he is doing this. He is an addict in a full blown addiction and thinking about what is best for anyone but himself just isn't possible.
I just got off the phone with my H's aunt, two months ago her H died. I think I mentioned it on here. Anyways, it was the first time that I contacted WH in Plan B, but I did it through the intermediary and gave him her phone number. I found out that he never called her.
My H loved this aunt more than anyone else in the world. And for him to not call her, just reinforced in a very comforting but weird way that he is absolutely gone into his addiction. In talking with here, she mentioned for the first time ever, that she almost isn't surprised because he never really grew up and its like he has regressed to teenagehood and just wants to start over. His sister made the same observation, which lends itself to the mid life crisis theory and gives me hope that this will all come to an end one day.
It's almost freeing, while I still hold dearly the love for my H it is put in a box and safely tucked it away until the day G-d lets him come home.
He needs prayers to be brought down to his rock bottom. And today I can find some comfort that this is more about him than me.
Ok, enough about him and his drama. And from what I can tell his sister is living her own drama between her hubby and kids. I will be happy to have my son home, even though he won't like the food in the house, but hopefully we will get some food stamps before that.
I'm grateful I'm not too proud to ask for help. I'm grateful that I haven't become bitter over this and today I am grateful that I have my family and children around me because we really are th ones blessed. And I'm grateful that there is enough love in my heart for H, and that its safely tucked away until the day G-d lets me lavish it on him.
Well, I think that tells us alot about the sitch over in Affairland. Sounds like money is tight. Hang in there because that whole mess is going to implode one day soon, and your WH is going to be one lost puppy dog.
You are really doing well Queenie, and I don't know how but I'm sure this experience will be of benefit to us someday, somehow, somewhere.
I wish you were close enough to come to my house for dinner. I don't have much either, but I'm willing to share what I have. I'm a pretty good cook when I'm motivated to do it.
Oh contrare, the money seems to have gotten way better on his side. He can eat out for lunch and isn't paying his bills, so he has alot of money to spend on what? I have no clue. I do know it's not coming to me or the children.
I asked his aunt to please ask his other aunt to pray for him in church. She is very active in her BIG Mormon Church. Having more people pray for him can only help.
Oh Chai, I wished we lived closer together, then we could cry on each others shoulders, plot our revenge against you know what's and then laugh at our inventive we are.
I bet you are an amazing cook. And you have lots in life, like me, just not cash. But in the end, you can't take that with you, what we have is relationships and self-respect, which is what we CAN take with us.
I seem to really be doing ok for the most part. There was a dip in the heart and emotions today, but I got through it and didn't wallow too long.
My YS is coming home on Tuesday and I am really looking forward to that. My kids have seemed to all make up and are talking together again which warms my heart.
But it's 4am and I haven't been able to fall asleep. Something is eating at me. I have prayed, talked to G-d and just layed in bed, minute after minute.
There was a guy tonight at my AA meeting who found out he has a severe cancer and was given 30 days to 2 years. I sat in there thinking if I had 30 days to live what would I do differently. And you know, there is really only ONE thing I want in life. I could give up all my possessions, I could not ever make it to Israel which is my dream, all I want is to see my H again and talk to him and have him call me Bright Eyes and hold me and have me feel safe in his arms.
I know, stop it Queenie. I will. :crosseyedcrazy:
I'm just exhausted, lonely, and wide awake. Not good combination.
I wish someone else was up to talk with. :RollieEyes:
Have a great day everyone. Maybe I will fall asleep at the pool today.. It's supposed to be over 90.
Hang on, the coaster will go up again. I've actually had an UP week so far. I enjoy them while they are here. These are the weeks where I could tell WH to f-off and not even care about it. Don't know what causes the change in emotions to roll in, but they do. I guess maybe it's part of Plan B and keeping dark.
Actually, I am a pretty good cook, just a little out of practice I guess since I don't cook too much for myself.
Have to run now, and I work until 11pm, so will try to catch up later.
Psalm 77 from The Message, a modern English translation. 1 I yell out to my God, I yell with all my might, I yell at the top of my lungs. He listens.
2-6 I found myself in trouble and went looking for my Lord; my life was an open wound that wouldn't heal. When friends said, "Everything will turn out all right," I didn't believe a word they said. I remember God—and shake my head. I bow my head—then wring my hands. I'm awake all night—not a wink of sleep; I can't even say what's bothering me. I go over the days one by one, I ponder the years gone by. I strum my lute all through the night, wondering how to get my life together.
7-10 Will the Lord walk off and leave us for good? Will he never smile again? Is his love worn threadbare? Has his salvation promise burned out? Has God forgotten his manners? Has he angrily stalked off and left us? "Just my luck," I said. "The High God goes out of business just the moment I need him."
11-12 Once again I'll go over what God has done, lay out on the table the ancient wonders; I'll ponder all the things you've accomplished, and give a long, loving look at your acts.
13-15 O God! Your way is holy! No god is great like God! You're the God who makes things happen; you showed everyone what you can do— You pulled your people out of the worst kind of trouble, rescued the children of Jacob and Joseph.
Since all I could do is detract from what is already there, I'll check back later...In case you have any questions...
I went back to bed and finally fell asleep. I'm really groggy so I am heading out to the pool to just sit and read the bible. A Christian version that is about AA recovery and the steps.
And then read HNHN and see what else I can fit into my brain and keep it out of where it shouldn't.
Thanks for asking. I'm very grateful the sun is out to entertain me today.
I yell out to my God, I yell with all my might, I yell at the top of my lungs. He listens.
Sounds so much more personal than when we think of "crying out to God." He understands what we are going through. He accepts us even when we are angry and hurt. He hears us when we whisper His Name, but he also keeps listening when we shout at the top of our lungs.
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I found myself in trouble and went looking for my Lord; my life was an open wound that wouldn't heal. When friends said, "Everything will turn out all right," I didn't believe a word they said. I remember God—and shake my head.
Why is it that we tend to only look to Him when we need something. It's after we have dug ourselves into a whole so deep that we don't see the opening where we began that we realize that we need Him to get us out.
And our friends... They say "It'll all work out. Just trust God. Things will get better." But of course we are in pain right now. We don't need relief later, we need it NOW. We think of God and wonder why He doesn't seem to be answering us NOW.
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I bow my head—then wring my hands. I'm awake all night—not a wink of sleep; I can't even say what's bothering me. I go over the days one by one, I ponder the years gone by. I strum my lute all through the night, wondering how to get my life together.
We agonize over the choices we made. We question everything we ever did. Did it have any meaning or purpose at all in the scheme of life? We lay awake all night worrying about the outcome but also thinking that if we had just done something differently, things might be better NOW. "If only I'd done it this other way instead of the way I did, I might not be facing this trouble right NOW.
But that's just it. It is the consequences of what we did and though God wants so very much for us to not suffer, He let's the consequences of our actions and the actions of those around us play out in all their power. He sees us suffer and suffers along with us, just as we suffer when our children are suffering because of their choices. He is not punishing us, but simply allowing us to reap what we have sown.
We try to stay busy so we don't have to think about it. We wonder what we will do NOW.
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Will the Lord walk off and leave us for good? Will he never smile again? Is his love worn threadbare? Has his salvation promise burned out? Has God forgotten his manners? Has he angrily stalked off and left us? "Just my luck," I said. "The High God goes out of business just the moment I need him."
We wonder if this is it, that God is done with us. We pray, we cry out, we shout, we plead...we even demand and still God seems to watch in silence.
"Maybe He has given up on us," we think. We think He is like US and that He has finally given up on us and left us totally alone to deal with our sorrow by ourselves. We even judge Him, the God of the universe, the same God that had done so much down through the ages. We judge Him to have decided that He will not send help because He is tired of dealing with our constant troubles and problems. He has gone out of the business of helping those in need.
We pray and say we are giving it all to him, but then we wring our hands and want to do it ourselves. So He let's us struggle because we are still not understanding what it is He expects. He expects us to trust Him and rely on Him to get us through, but we keep looking for our own answers, for the things we want Him to do rather than the things He wants to do for us.
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Once again I'll go over what God has done, lay out on the table the ancient wonders; I'll ponder all the things you've accomplished, and give a long, loving look at your acts.
Eventually, if we stop our self pity and look at all He has already done, the miracles He has already performed throughout history, We begin to see it. This Is what He expects us to remember. These are the things that show us His power and prove to us His might, His strength and His LOVE for us.
He led us through the sea on dry ground. He drove out the enemies before us. He gave us His laws and commands to help us avoid just the very things we are suffering the consequences of right NOW. He has already done so much for us and we too easily forget that He still wants to do more.
We can trust Him NOW because we can see what He has already done. We can know that His ways are the best ways and that what He wants for us is so much better than what we want because He has already showed us by His actions that His promises are kept and that He is not like us at all...
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O God! Your way is holy! No god is great like God! You're the God who makes things happen; you showed everyone what you can do— You pulled your people out of the worst kind of trouble, rescued the children of Jacob and Joseph.
The word Holy means "set apart" and He is HOLY. He is not like any other. His ways are not like our ways. No one is like HIM!
He's the God who makes things happen. He is the One who keeps His promises. He actively works on our behalf.
He led Jacob out of slavery and defeated the greatest army on Earth with His power and with nature and with the sea that obeys His command. The UNIVERSE is waiting for His call to intervene in our troubles.
He WILL lead us out of this mess we find ourselves in. We KNOW this and can BELIEVE it because we have seen it first hand. He has NEVER failed to keep a promise...
Even His promise to let us decide what we will do.
He WILL lead us through this...
If we follow Him and let Him do it His way...
[/sermon of the week]
Shalom, Queenie!
HIS peace be with you...
Let Him take care of the details and REST in His promises that He loves you and wants what is BEST for you.
I am praying that Mark's post brought you even just a portion of the peace that it brought to me when I read it!
Outstanding, Mark! What a wonderous, thoughtful, well written reminder of our human frailty & faults, yet God's nature and love is so much greater than all of that - so much greater than we can imagine!!
I am praying that Mark's post brought you even just a portion of the peace that it brought to me when I read it!
I don't know Mark as poster very well... but I agree with Bugs... he has offered you (and all of us) a very insightful post with much care and knowledge...and I certainly want to be added to the list of those who appreciate the input of a very wise, patient, compassionate person... whose belief and trust in G-d deeply touches me. Thank you Mark.
HI pretty lady! I haven't heard from you either and wanted to check in on you...
from reading, it appears that we are bother in the mode of turning to God...seems like I'm always praying for something...I loved Mark post, that was really awesome...WAY TO GO MARK!!
You are in my thoughts and prayers...you know you are exactly where you need to be right now...hard to believe sometimes and harder to be there but it's progress not perfection...
Remember to keep it simple...enjoy the little things around you, like the sun...there are roses among the thorns...just have to keep a sharp eye...
Mark, you are absolutely amazing and so grounded. Thank you.
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We don't need relief later, we need it NOW.
Early on in this journey and with the help of being in AA I realized that each time I came to this place of pain and depth of despair was a lesson or feeling that I had to work through. I can honestly say I don't just ask to have the relief, but ask his help in walking through this and what are the lessons that I need to learn during the painful times. I don't like them, but I have come to trust him enough that I need to keep walking.
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He is not punishing us, but simply allowing us to reap what we have sown.
And that's just it, the pain of what I have done, and now the consequences of reaping what I have so overflow my heart with guilt because I simply should have been stronger and not allowed my life to spiral out of control the way it did. That's why I can't forgive myself. I should have reminded myself how needy my H was and not taken his love for granted. But selfishly I wanted more than what he was giving me so learned to survive with IB and it was those behaviors that I believe ultimately led him to this A and I have lost him. I can comprehend these are my consequences, they just seem to severe and it has destroyed a family along with 3 children, the innocent ones and I don't know how to be ok with that.
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We pray and say we are giving it all to him, but then we wring our hands and want to do it ourselves. So He let's us struggle because we are still not understanding what it is He expects. He expects us to trust Him and rely on Him to get us through, but we keep looking for our own answers, for the things we want Him to do rather than the things He wants to do for us.
I so see that I do this. And when I realize it, I pray for his knowledge of his will and the means to carry it out. This is such a part of my 10th step every morning and night. How fortunate for me to have AA in my life and help me to keep this in focus. But I'm prone to failure, imagine that.
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Eventually, if we stop our self pity and look at all He has already done, the miracles He has already performed throughout history, We begin to see it. This Is what He expects us to remember.
WOW, I keep looking for the signs and the answers, and it didn't dawn on me until this, that the answers are already here, I just don't want to see them or find an easier softer way. The answers are really to live his world, follow his laws and just simply know he is G-d and can do anything.
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Let Him take care of the details and REST in His promises that He loves you and wants what is BEST for you.
And even knowing all you have written and understanding what you are saying, I have that urge to say I know what is best.
G-d is very inspired by your obedience to him. Thank you. What you have given me is a lot to work through and pray that it becomes a part of my heart and soul.
You are such a blessing to so many of us on here. I am grateful for the sermons you give us.
Woman, it's so awesome to see you. You'll have mail in a few minutes. I miss you girl. Yeah, I do know that I am exactly where I need to be right now. And with that sermon Mark gave I guess I have a lot to keep working through.
Accepting of my consequences or reaping what I had sown. It's hard Rin and since my work on the AA steps is complete, time to get cracking on the Alanon steps. So here we go girl.
Ready?
I have been living life. I find myself more and more each day moving forward, thinking less and less of WH. I find myself healing deeper inside, but Mark's sermon has brought up the sadness of my guilt. I'll just feel it and allow G-d to heal my heart as he is doing because at some point I will have to just simply accept my mistakes and let the consequences be what they are.
The people who rented my house moved in and that was hard for me when I heard it. I think I still held out hope, which was totally unrealistic. My neighbor who works with me also added her two cents about WH never coming home and I had to just block it from my heart.
I had a phone interview for food stamps set up for tomorrow, but the state finally came through and I got half the money that WH owed me. Which is helping. I have paid off the cell phone bill and now that my YS is home, we will see if WH keeps to his threat and turns it off. I actually hope so, so I can go get a new phone and better plan.
Speaking of son, he made it home safe and sound and it was awesome to see him last night. He had text me on Monday night telling me how much he missed me and can't wait to see me and he would like us to have dinner together by cooking fried chicken which he has learned to do. 3 minutes later he asked for OS to get him at airport, alone and could he go over to a friends house. How could I say no. He is a teenager.
So, rather than feeling bad or making him feel a certain way, I say not a problem and told him I was going to go sing instead. He got home, came and visited me for a few minutes and then went on his merry way with his brother.
They ate together at a restaurant down the strip mall and it was such a blessing to have my two boys together enjoying the time with each other. They bonded and played the whole night.
My son brought back a mosaic for me to make of sunflowers. He and his aunt got it for me. I love sunflowers.
So, I can go to those places of feeling sorry for myself, but that would be a lie. I am blessed in more ways than most people and I just need to know that one day I will be healed and my life will be what G-d created. And that's all I have to know and leave the rest to G-d and follow in his ways and his laws.
Happy Days, I feel happiness inside my soul again. I didn't think I would ever really feel that, but it here and I'm very grateful it is.
I am very concerned with this statement. Yes, we reap what we sow, but we are also not completely alone in our world. The consequences of OTHER peoples actions effect us as well. YOU are not SOLELY responsible for what happened in your marriage.
No matter our mistakes and faults, God forgives us. We must also forgive ourselves. AND, we can not take on responsibility for everyone else's actions either!
I am struggling to find the words I want to explain my thought to you on this!
Maybe I should take this opportunity to say - Stop Wallowing in your own guilt?!?! What is that getting you? It's certainly NOT what God wants you to be doing!!!
Maybe I should take this opportunity to say - Stop Wallowing in your own guilt?!?! What is that getting you? It's certainly NOT what God wants you to be doing!!!
I think that's a pretty good way to say it. Thanks. I'll go take some aspirin now.
First, I really am in a very strong place emotionally. Actually I haven't been in such a place since before this happened or even in years and years. So having said that, I am really just sounding off, being introspective or interspective and looking at my behaviors from a healthier set of eyes.
I'm not beating myself up, but I am learning to accept my side of the street, because that's all I can do.
I don't know WH's side of the street. I can't judge him. I also can't condemn him because he is an addict in an active addiction. This affair didn't make him an addict he was one before that. He lived a dry drunk just like me and is very sick. He is destroying himself and has been for many years.
I'm just being totally honest and learning to accept my side of the street and it just is hard because my choices destroyed lives. Regardless of what he did, I did my own wreckage and am learning to accept it and seek G-d in how to move forward.
Maybe I am not writing the words correctly, but truly I am healing, learning to forgive and walking each step with G-d that he wants me to. I didn't EVER believe I would get to this place. But I am slowly really healing deep inside and seeing that my life is ok today.
I'm just being totally honest and learning to accept my side of the street and it just is hard because my choices destroyed lives. Regardless of what he did, I did my own wreckage and am learning to accept it and seek G-d in how to move forward.
I'm ok with your statement of accepting your own side of the street. I have to question how YOUR choices destroyed lives? While choices you made may not have been conducive to keeping your marriage healthy, or even in tact, you didn't choose the DESTRUCTION of your family and your actions didn't MAKE your WS choose the Affair or force him to destroy your M and family.
Think a bit more about where to draw the line of your responsibility. I'm all about owning our own stuff,,,,just watch what you are 'borrowing' that doesn't really belong to you.
I LOVE to hear you talk about how STRONG you feel! Keep up that great work!
Glad to see you feeling stronger. Seems we go through ups and downs so rapidly at this point. Take advantage of the up....
I know that there is a reason and lesson in all of this, but I just haven't been privy to what that is. God will reaveal it in time. I just hope it's sooner rather than later! The last couple of days I've tried to figure out how this could be positive, and I've come up with some things that I hadn't thought about before. I'm probably just forcing puzzle pieces to fit right now, but it's therapy I guess....
I miss you lots. Well the unbelievable has happened. I am getting a life for myself. I'm happier these days and keeping way more busy than before. I don't think of you know who very much anymore. When I do, I remember you Mimi and shake my head and get it out of there.
It's the beginning of school and I am throwing myself into work so am not around right now getting ready.
I am off to meet with my sponsee and then head to school, finish up stuff for the return of staff and then go shopping for breakfast for staff tomorrow.
I'm finding more peace in my life. I'm finding that even though I miss my H beyond belief that pain just doesn't sit at the surface like it did. I didn't think it was possible, but you all were right. As sad as it is, I am moving on without him and can live my life today knowing he won't be home.
I think he is stupid and missing out on the very best life could offer, but that's his choice and I can't control that or him in anyways. I can't even control myself, I can just make choices that are best on G-ds will and new information and do the best I can.
I hope all is well with everyone. Smartie, if you are reading this, I have to charge my phone then give you a call and hear you laugh... 47-3. OUCH, that's a spanking beyond my dreams.
I'm finding more peace in my life. I'm finding that even though I miss my H beyond belief that pain just doesn't sit at the surface like it did. I didn't think it was possible, but you all were right. As sad as it is, I am moving on without him and can live my life today knowing he won't be home.
Go Queenie! Peace!! Yeah!!
Yes, it's sad he is missing out, as you say, but you are doing what is BEST for YOU! keep up the great work. Life has lots of wonderful things in store for you!
It's so weird, as peaceful as I am becoming and as I know I am moving on and forward, reading it from you put a knot in my stomach because it becomes real. How silly is that.
Oh well, I am G-d's miracle and need to keep on moving forward. I know that the love I have for my H is still there, tucked away should he ever decide on coming home.
I am not ready to say this is for the rest of my life, I can only stay in today and today I can live without him happily and contently.
My two older kids are all signed up for college. I had an argument with the younger child over his grades and going to driving school. His dad and I years ago set the mark that DYS and DD had to have B's for keys. He is pissed b/c OS didn't need to comply. I bought into it, but fortunately my friend was there to call me on it and help me get out real quick. Teenagers. I'm not backing down on it for two reasons, his father and I decided this together and I want to honor that man by holding to this and this is the smartest of all my children. He is more than capable of handling his school work and it was through his laziness that he had such horrible grades. I don't feel that rewarding him for bad choices is in his best interest. He starts high school this year... Hard to believe that my youngest is in high school and only has three more years. Once he is through, who knows where G-d will take me. Hopefully to Israel.
For those of you whose kids start school this week, I hope you have an awesome year. I know how hard my teachers are working for our kids and this is always a time of excitment.
Fortunately football is about to start in a little over a week. I met with my sponsee yesterday and it was awesome working with her on the steps. Watching it come to life is always so cool.
As my wife and I walked through the woods during our vacation last week we discussed how this is the first year in many, (30 to be exact) that we have no one going off to school. Our baby (DS22) got his degree last May...
Tonight, I go to a meeting at my daughter's school....about applying for college. Of course, going to that meeting means I will NOT get to go to parent's night at my son's new school - entering high school this year - and will not know squat about what they tell parents and will not get to meet his teachers.
5 yr old cried yesterday and today when I dropped him off because he wanted me to stay . I asked if anything wrong happiend yesterday he told me no. So I told him he can do it. It will get easier.
2 yr old wanted to stay at the school when we dropped them off this morning. to cute!
11yr old came home with homework :MrEEk: and we spent 3 hrs on double digit multiplication. Hes used to doing it one way and me the old fashion way. When I showed him that his way wasnt working he threw a HUGE fit and took him 3 hrs. The joy of homework has returned lol.
I have talked to her recently as last night. Shes doing good just busy getting her amway together and swamped wtih work as the school year has started up again
I'm relieved that PF has talked to her. I just called her again, and only got the answering machine. I won't waste anymore money calling and will assume she is just busy. Thank G_d. I was even looking on the internet to see if some awful thing happened in her city.
Oh my goodness gracious, do you ALL have any idea how special you have made me feel. I am so sorry for not being in better contact on here. Thank you for caring. Mimi I am not getting my emails at work just yet because of the servers, hopefully by next.
I have been absolutely swamped in life. Overwhelmed and trying to just get through. The last two weeks of getting ready for school were over 12 hour days and no internet at work to get on to. Every year at this time, the tech dept thinks it's a good idea to muk with our servers. And then at home, I haven't had access because my kids are bored and on the computer.
Wow, I am stunned by your concern, love and frustration with me. I am doing ok. What can I say, there is no news on the M front and I just am doing what I need to do to survive. My kids got their money for their college and my older son unplugged my phone and I didn't know it until you mentioned it that it rings and doesn't answer or something like that, it was turned off and the message place must be picking it up.
Smartie, I don't have my cell phone, I can't afford the bill and you know who isn't caught up on his money or the state, what I did have I had to pay for insurance and food, etc. I'm getting really tired of this.
How's life. I truly apologize for not keeping on here better and ask your forgiveness, this caring whether I am around or not is very new to me and I am deeply touched and very grateful for it.
The truth is I am just running myself ragged to keep from feeling the emptiness and pain of him not being in my life anymore. I guess in a way, I'm trying to just not feel the loneliness and I can't drink, use, or eat, so I found a nitch, keep moving and dont' stop. But I'm not home hardly at all and my boys miss me, not to mention I am mentally and physically exhausted.
The good news is the kids started school today, I have signed up one person in my business and now I can take it more easily, but then there is just that, taking it easily and just being..... I prey for a happy medium. I did go see Shrek the Musical, which was awesome.
I love you guys, each and everyone of you who took time to notice I was gone. I can't express to you what this means. And I will never forget it. So thank you so much.
On one side note about WH, he ran into a friend of mine and very nonchalantly talked about how smart I was and how much better I could do with a new job and better pay and how he always encouraged me to get a better job. That is such a crock. He promised me we would build the Amway business and he would get me free. I hurt for a while on that, but then I realized he wants me to quit and get a better paying job so he doesn't have to give me as much money. Aint' going to work. I would rather struggle and have him hurting than make it easy on him. My momma didn't raise a fool. Plan B is pretty boring, but it's exhausting when you are trying not to feel or learning how to push the pain away by keeping busy.
to every single one of you.. You are a piece of my G-d and there is not a darn thing you can do about it.
Queenie!!! your back!!! YAY!!!!!!! NOW its almost life real marriage builders again
for Queenie
Oh Lil, thank you so much. I'm so sorry I didn't stay in touch better. I have certainly had my ups and downs and have really been looking at my situation and deciding where I need to go to move forward. The pain is certainly not there like before, but what is setting in reality that he really may never want to come home and I will have lost what I held most dear. So rather than sit in my pitty potty, keep to the stinkin thinkin, I just pushed forward and buried my feelings in work and keep busy.
I have missed MB so much. It's such a part of my life... So weird, I know.
have certainly had my ups and downs and have really been looking at my situation and deciding where I need to go to move forward. The pain is certainly not there like before, but what is setting in reality that he really may never want to come home and I will have lost what I held most dear. So rather than sit in my pitty potty, keep to the stinkin thinkin, I just pushed forward and buried my feelings in work and keep busy.
I know its not what you want to hear but it is awesome you reckonise it.
Quote
I have missed MB so much. It's such a part of my life... So weird, I know.
not to me I am an addict and now I have to log off Ah well another time
No Lil, it's not what I want to hear. I am moving forward and building a life without him. I can actually seek peaks of him not ever being in it again and then like I turtle I hide my head and don't want to face that real possibiility.
Being addicted to hear isn't so bad. It's the most amazing place I could think of for people who have walked through what we have on here.
Why just look at how many of you were concerned about ME? I'll take this addiction over any other one.
Please don't. Your sermons to me have saved my life in so many ways. You stretch my "religiousness" and make it safe for me to explore the messages you send.
Oh, your speakings right now have reminded me, my OS is the on the cover of the district calendar as the Cat in the Hat.. How totally awesome is that, a poster child......
That would be me...... Thank G-d school has started and the little darlings are tucked away from their silly parents and at school with the smart ones...
1-5 Good friend, take to heart what I'm telling you; collect my counsels and guard them with your life. Tune your ears to the world of Wisdom; set your heart on a life of Understanding. That's right—if you make Insight your priority, and won't take no for an answer, Searching for it like a prospector panning for gold, like an adventurer on a treasure hunt, Believe me, before you know it Fear-of-God will be yours; you'll have come upon the Knowledge of God.
6-8 And here's why: God gives out Wisdom free, is plainspoken in Knowledge and Understanding. He's a rich mine of Common Sense for those who live well, a personal bodyguard to the candid and sincere. He keeps his eye on all who live honestly, and pays special attention to his loyally committed ones.
Edited to add: This is somewhat of a milestone for me I think. It is my 2800th post on Marriage Builders.
Good to see you back--I missed you!!! I'm just glad you are safe and sound.
If you have another telephone number I can contact you at just email it to me. Otherwise, we can just email and keep up with each other on the board...
Thank God I'm done with school so I'll be a wee bit better about posting - but I don't want to have too much free time. Keeping busy keeps the mind off of WH and his (fill in the blank). But you know that already. Starting tomorrow with the start of ... say it with me ... football season!
You have the best logic. I have missed you so much.
Hey Smartie,
I hopefully will have my phone in a couple of weeks. Let me know when you are on here and I will give you my work number so we can talk. My home phone is still unplugged but I am working on that one too. Its actually nice not having a phone.
How about this Cinders and Smartie -
HAILTOTHEREDSKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chai, thank you for what you said. How are you? How is your new job? I need to hear about this. I'm very happy for you.
Two days and the first week is over. It's been a very long week for me. One that has had its drama and downright too much stimulation. We had our first fire drill during first grade lunch. You might think that's no big deal and we know what to do, well you are right. But the humor is, it was a student who pulled it, it wasn't scheduled so we needed to get the kids in the lunchroom out on the field safely and in an orderly manner. Which we did, but let's think about the fact that these are first graders two days out of kindergarten and not only have they not been through that kind of drill, but they were in their classroom heading out the way they know or in a small group such as a classroom.
Oh no, they were in the huge gym happily eating lunch, and have to be interrupted, sent out on the field and accounted for, not to mention the staff members.
But we rose to the occasion and the kids did amazing and we are done for the month. And it was sunny. So yeah!!!
All our lunches were pushed back and when I went to lunch the person who took my dog sat down and started talking. She and I share a pain bond because her daughter was killed in a car accident two days before my D-day. I gave her my dog b/c she loves german shepherds and I could no longer take care of my cookie.
So she sits down and starts to tell me about her garage sale she had. I knew exactly where she was going with this. WH and crack ho showed up. She told me how she noticed his lacrosse tatoo and made a comment about it, saying you must know the "family name" boys. WH said, that would be me. My friend told me it was a blessing that she and my other friend also there were wearing sun glasses because their eyes popped out of their head they were so stunned at how ugly OW is. Not just ugly, but total white trailer trash, grungy, dirty. OW was wearing this spaghetti strapped, cotton short dress, no bra, hanging out everwhere, stumbling in high heels and hair like it was right out from the 70's. She had no make up on, and appeared high. They wanted them to leave fast so they could talk through what they had witnessed.
I have to say, it didn't really hurt, it just mind boggled me. They say I am so better off without him, after having her I wouldn't want him back. They were beyond stunned at how skanky, low class and dirty she was, not to mention high.
There really is no comment, I am not hurt, a smidgen sad and yes I wish I could understand, but maybe some things just are not supposed to be understood. He has moved to another world now, not my world and quite frankly I wouldn't want to be in that world or like that person.
I am a GODDESS. My HEAD IS UP.... CHEST IS OUT.... and I am living life as best as I can. With G-d in the lead, taking me to his promises for me.
Queenie that must have made you feel oh so great!!! Now if you do see your WH you can definitely hold your head up high and show him what his missing in you!!!! He's loss!!!
A friend of mine had met OW about 6 months ago and had commented that she had a slim figure..it hurt......anyway the same friend saw OW in the mall the other day and said she has gotten SO FAT!!! Well,that made my day!!
Its true what they say,the OW is never any better than us...the WH's really do down-grade!!!We are the true GODDESSES...
Hey, even though my x's 2nd wife was not in the picture until several years after our divorce, my x still downgraded.
Shiver me timbers - WHAT did I ever see in him....oh well, I was only 18 when I met him and 21 when we married, and he left 3 days after my 39th birthday.
"At the speed that server moves at, its a damn miracle!!!"
Yeah, I've got a 486 machine in my basement if they ever want to speed it up a bit...
A 486 might be too much of a step up!
One step at a time I say. Let's just start simple, maybe that Radio Shack Tandy TRS80 in my basement would be a good start. It would certanly be an improvement on the stone tablets and chisels speed of the current server.
Oh Queenie, I want to . Elvira sounds totally disgusting. Not sure if it makes us feel better...or worse! I once asked my friend to drive with me out to OWs state so I could see what she looks like, and she told me NO. She said that if OW was gorgeous I'd feel bad, and if she was butt ugly, I'd feel just as bad. She had a good point there. We do, and will, feel bad either way so what's the point.
She sounds like a "health hazzard" to me.... Maybe you don't want him back after that. Not sure how you would ever disinfect him.
Where are you in the D process or LSA process?????Has he pushed it at all????
Queenie, you are soooo worthy girl, and deserve so much better.
One step at a time I say. Let's just start simple, maybe that Radio Shack Tandy TRS80 in my basement would be a good start. It would certanly be an improvement on the stone tablets and chisels speed of the current server.
I just threw out a TI99/4A with the TI expansion buss and 2 8" floppies a couple weeks ago. I also pitched a CPM Z80A based machine and a 80286 accelerator card for my old 8088 machine.
My first copy of MS Dos was 1.12B and my first modem was 150 baud...
Wow, you were really into that high-end stuff, huh?
The first "personal" computer I ever used was an Altair 8080 that we had to put together from a box of parts...and I don't mean assembled with a screw driver here. We entered MIT Basic one keystroke at a time with an IBM Model 34 teletype.
I assembled a Sinclair computer. I had a TRS80 Model One Level One modified to run both Level 1 and Level 2 Basic. I had a VIC20. I had A Commodore 64 and a Commodore 128. Then I got a TI99/4A with a cassette for data and added two 8" floppies. Then I had a Wang CPM machine with 4 KB of RAM and two floppies. Then I had an 8088 with 256 KB and a 9" green CRT and two floppies. I updated that with a 286 accelerator card. Then I had a 386. And a 486DX25 which became a DX2-50 and then a DX4-100 with 4MB. And a P2 450 with 16MB.
Before the Internet, we did Usenet...
And before the Usenet, we did BBS posts...
And before that we wrote our own games and applications including a relational database written in MIT Basic. We were thrilled when we got DBase. My first real spreadsheet was Lotus 123 release 1A and my first word processor was Wordstar written for CPM.
10 CLS 100For X=1 to 10000 101Next X (Counts from 1 to 10000. Often used to slow a process down to give a user a chance to give input)
I also worked with FORTH for a while...
CLR :Beep 7 emit; :Honk 10 0 do Beep loop; :Noise 5 0 do Honk loop; Noise (Sends ASCII 7 <CTRL G> which is the "bell" on a terminal 50 times in 5 groups of ten)
I remember 1 MB hard drives, 1 KB RAM chips and 150 KB floppies
There was a time I also knew the pin-outs for a 25 pin serial port from memory...
Tomorrow, I am getting my hair cut....8 inches. I am SO excited. I wanted to wait a few more months but it has got to go. GOT to go!!!! I think it's so long and fine that the roots are not able to support it so I'm shedding worse than I should be. Looking forward to mailing my ponytail to Pantene.
OMG Mark! You are bringing back some really, really bad memories (pardon the pun). I used to write Fortran programs then key it on the keypunch machine! Then wait for my printout only to find that I had an error. Then before I could get back to the keypunch machine I would drop the deck. (AHHHHH - me screaming at top of lungs).
I used to be one heck of a programmer (if I do say so myself). Not sure I could program sh1t today, but at one time I was the Program Queen.
Well the first week is in the books. Count day is today, I'm still doing someone else's job and my boss is piling stuff on top of me. I barely hung on today and had a complete meltdown tonight. Do you ever just get so physically, mentally and emotionally drained from work that you just want to cry.
But, I'll be ok. I'm going to go take a shower and go to sleep early. I'm too tired to think of why I am so sad, and I'm experienced enough to know this will pass. Too much stimulation of sound, activity and brain for too many days and weeks now. I need some down time.
I hope tomorrow is just a sun weekend and I can veg at the pool with no one talking to me.
Then before I could get back to the keypunch machine I would drop the deck. (
We used to take people's card decks and just sort of "shuffle" them a bit. Or turn a card end for end in the deck.
If you really wanted to be mean you could hide one from the final five in the stack.
Chug. Chug... Chug. Chug. KER-STOP!
Huh?
Never liked FORTRAN. Higher languages always seemed to work better for me. I liked storing my programs on something other than punch cards...
FORTH was cool. I developed a different way of thinking and assembling data by learning FORTH. C works much the same way, but the command set for FORTH was smaller because it was designed for older hardware. FORTH allows you to begin with a small set of known commands and define complex functions by naming sets of the simple commands and then using those names in further definitions. Forth also uses stack math and RPN math functions, which changes the way you think about data.
FORTH also does not require peripherals to be synced in order to be accessed. So a hard drive could just sit there till you asked for something and the processor was able to wait until it got something back. It didn't have to happen in a specific time frame or number of clock pulses.
By 1984 I was corresponding with folks around the world by posting to BBSs. Later came News Groups and Usenet which worked a lot like these forums. (And still does, I might add) I still do Usenet groups on certain subjects. I even posted for a while in a marriage group before settling on here as my best hope for recovery.
Queenie, Are we boring you yet?
Come on girl. Take back your thread. I'm running out of drivel... :crosseyedcrazy:
Oh my Mark. You trumped me. I lost most of my technical skills a long time ago when I moved into a management position. Things change so quickly too. Some days I miss it though. We IT people have our own language for sure. Mostly we talk in 3-letter acronyms.
I know all about "count day". We must have had at least 100 kids show up the first 2 days to enroll. It's almost as if the school buses go by and the family realizes they need to get their kids enrolled in school. Go figure....
I hope you have a wonderful, relaxing week-end. We are supposed to have more normal September weather than the cool August we had.
My son is up on Camano Island and built a fancy fence around her 7 acre horse place. So I'm thankful that August was not that hot. He finished it yestereday and there were just a couple of really warm days.
Hope you get to relax around the pool today Queenie, and do absolutely nothing.
I have lots of leave a work, but my boss will never let me use it. I have to use three weeks by the end of the year or lose it. So I'm planning to put in my leave papers and see what happens.
Sorry it is cloudy. Maybe it will get sunny later today.
It was scary.....to see your hair bundled up in rubber bands and then they cut them off....about 6 little pony tails rather than one big one. Very scary. Then to look in the mirror and see that it's not nearly shoulder length - - it's shorter. Then they go to work with their scissors snipping and shaping and working on it. So SCARY. I feel naked.
When I have it in the halo-thingy, I feel special because so few people do much more than mousse, scrunch, maybe blow-dry and flip it around a few times. I will say, the current cut is more stylish but more ordinary. I look like every other mother of teenagers. But, up, when I dressed up, I stood out a bit because it was so different.
Thank you. I realize the polite response would have been to simply say, "Thank you". However, I do subscribe to the theory: 'If you don't have smile lines around your eyes, you haven't laughed and smiled enough.' That is where my lines are.
(My sister is 3 years younger than me - my only sister who refuses to do more than be minimally pleasant when in my mother's presence and to ignore me the rest of the time. She has frown lines on her forehead.)
I am doing ok. I have a fight on my hands with my boss today in some respects. She has me working on this ongoing project where everything I do for "her" so to speak is put in a hanging folder and when the event comes I just pull the file and give her the stuff and we go from there.
It actually is a great idea, but she absolutely has no clue of what I do all day long and I am overwhelmed, overtaxed and just plain tired of so much work. I am not only doing my job which is more than anyother "upper" grade head secretary, but I am doing the registrars job and I have been since I left that position and no one has stayed in it long enough to completely understand and handle the job. In fact, they have given half of the job away and they can't keep up with what I have done.
I haven't been in this position before of truly taking care of myself so I am putting out a spreadsheet if you were on my responsibilities and giving her an idea of why I seem more stressed, why I seem to be running on empty and why I can't stay ahead of my own job. My goal isn't necessarily to have her fix it, change anything, but to grasp that I really am doing the best I can.
The other piece and she just isn't willing to grasp, throw in what has happened the last year or so of my life and between my recover in AA and recovery my life I just have had so much on my plate. But that is personal and I am learning to put that away when I walk through the doors.
I had an interesting thing happen last night, well ongoing somewhat. My close friend who I love dearly, but is a control freak, hates WH and wants him out of my life is back in my life because we sing together. At the time that I chose to go back to singing it was made clear on my part that Tuesday nights were the absolute worst nights for me. But the group chose that night, so she said, if you can just get there once a month, that would be good. Well, she calls me each week and I say yes or no, and it's been going ok, only some minor tones in her voice.
Last week she called and I couldn't go because I needed to go to my AA meeting in Seattle at Jewish Family Services. Above all else, my AA recovery is the most important thing I have in life because without that, there is NOTHING. She isn't an alcoholic so she absolutely doesn't understand that.
I told her last week that I would change my plans and go to my second job last night and go to choir practice tonight. The best laid plans, not. A member of AA ran into some trouble and I needed to be there for her because when someone is in trouble, you reach out your hand and that's becomes the most important. Well, obviously I didn't make it to work last night and need to go to night. I called my friend and explained the truth and she is disappointed, judgemental, controlling etc. I did stand my ground and I feel good about what I did, it was the right thing for me, but taking care of myself is so new. :RollieEyes:
Then this friend went on to explain to me that according to our by laws I can not list my H as being a member of my household because he is living somewhere else and so they won't list him in the directory. I said not a problem, take my family name out of it. And she got quiet because I wasn't doing what she wanted. We went round and round and I was absolutely understanding her point, but that he was still my H, I loved him very much and wanted him to come home. We came up with an agreement that possible they would use The "Our Name" family instead of individual names. She didn't think that would work, so again I said no problem, but don't use mine. She went on to explain how they don't do it for children, etc. I completely agreed and understood and told her what the choices were. As you can imagine she wasn't happy with me.
I think I should follow up on this with the president and make it absolutely clear on what I want. Am I being unreasonable or childish?
I am doing ok. My computer went down and I havent' had internet at work for a few days, so I haven't been able to talk. I went away overnight and just got home.
I am still missing him terribly, but moving on in life. I didnt think I could get to this point, but I am and just doing the best I can.
All I can ask for today, thanks for checking up on me.
I can't possibly explain how much I miss you. I miss Plan A and doing something. It will be 6 months on Wednesday since in Plan B and not one word has been uttered to each other.
Not one word, after 30 years of being best friends, raising children and being married, not one word. Would he even care if I dropped dead? Or is he just another human being? I guess I can look at it this way. I am giving it two years, so I only have 18 months left. How ironic, next month, within days it will be the 17 month for both. 17 months from D-day and 17 months until I what do I say, walk away and give up all hope of him ever coming home? Oh well, I don't need to even think about that now. Today it's magnificent out there, today I can go to the pool and enjoy it one more time and today my Redskins play the Saints.
So, I am doing the very best that I can and moving along as G-d wants. Or I certainly hope so.
But enough selfishness. My prayers are those in Texas are doing ok....
I'm hanging in there. The reality of WH not coming home continues to settle in more and more, probably because of the 6 months Plan B anniversary around the corner.
He just walked away and lives a new life with nothing from the past. I just can't imagine that, nor do I know how to walk away like he did.
I keep thinking our love can survive this, but who am I kidding, people continually tell me our relationship just wasn't healthy from the start and yet, I keep believing that G-d can make this work out.
I figured you'd get around to talking to me eventually.
We had to cancel church this morning due to high water on the church grounds and covering the road leading to the church.
We started getting rain on Thursday morning and it hasn't really stopped since. Our rain now is what's left of Ike but before Ike even made landfall in Texas we were getting drenched by a tropical system that came in from the Pacific last week. We had as much as 8" of rain in the Chicago area by sunset last night and it hasn't quite raining yet.
The COE opened the locks on the Chicago River this morning for the first time in over 20 years and let the water of the Chicago River run into Lake Michigan.
I'm about to go out with my camera to take some pictures just to document some of the flooding.
Wow, think about how high regard Jews have for chopped liver.
Why almost a king I would say.
Is there anyway you can post those pictures. That would be something to behold... It's just another gorgeous magnificent day here in the PNW. I'm heading to the pool in a half hour when it opens.
Skins are winning by 2 which is very cool. Saints are actually making a run to score before halftime. UGH....
Well, my Bears lost but the Cubbies not only won but Z pitched a no hitter!
Today Ted Lilly has a no hitter through the first 5 when I came in here to log on.
At least the weekend wasn't a total waste.
We had to get a boat to take our youth pastor and his wife out of the house on the grounds with the church. Water isn't into the house or the church yet but keeps coming closer.
I took a few pictures yesterday but couldn't get to the church to shoot there without wading so I just headed home. I will try to find someplace to start an account that I can post them on if you really want to see them.
I've been out fishing all morning and just finished lunch about an hour ago and will be back on the water within an hour. I love this time of year out here (our vacation property.) Almost nobody else is around and I pretty much have the place to myself.
How'd the Skins' game turn out. I didn't see it and haven't looked at the scores yet?
I am very fortunate in that I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend. I love the sun and here is may be around one more week. Woo Hoo.
Hey Mark,
The Skins ended up winning 29-22. Campbell threw a 67 yard TD pass to Santana Moss with 3 minutes left. Oh yes... I'll take that any day.
I heard about the no hitter. How cool. I love Lou. Just miss him lots. Yes, I would love to see the pictures. It helps to remind me of things to be truly focused on.
What kind of fish do you get and do you freeze them for winter or eat right away.
Yesterday, I hit a sidewalk and cut a gash in a tire. Fortunately, the tire was on my new-old-clunkermobile and it was worn unevenly so it was toast, anyway.
I went to get tires and found out they had the wrong size tires on the car. Having different sized tires on each end of the car would be bad for the transmission. The tires on the back were still good but I ended up having to buy four tires unless I wanted to go back home and do more shopping around for tires that would be bad for the car.
Hi Queenie! (JT waving from under the harvest moon)
I hope that things are starting to run more smoothly at school now that the dust has settled from the first two weeks. I love these full moon nights walking with the puppies.
Just wanted to let you know I'm still around. Maybe we can get together soon...that would be great.
All sounds well here...just stopped in to say hi, trying to get away from life here but at the same time protect myself from all of the heartache we get to read in the threads here...know what I mean?
Thanks for checking up on me. I had a long talk with Mimi tonight and she has encouraged me to be a little more up front about what is going on and my feelings.
When I first came here I was totally broken down as a human being. I couldn't believe what was happening, I didn't want to live because I didn't want to feel the pain of what was happening or even begin to accept the reality of what was going on. I bought into that affairs never last and the WH is in an addiction and that there is a script of what is happening and if you just follow the plans it will be ok.
It was brought up many times that the first book to read is Surviving An Affair, not that you get your marriage back, but that you can survive. But I didn't want to survive. I didn't want to live without my H. He was all I knew. Yes we had problems, yes deep seeded ones and yes I made HUGE mistakes and took my marriage for granted, blah... blah.... blah....
This pain that was unimaginable horror, didn't go away and didn't go away and didn't go away. People who I counted on for love and support told me I was stupid, that WH wasn't coming home and I had to forget him and move on.
And people on here, gently encouraged me to develop Plan A and work it to the best of my ability. I saw moments of reaction from H, but mostly WH is in control. Time and time again WH would do the most stupid, selfish, painful hurts and inside I would die a little more, not knowing or even wanting to go on another day.
And then it became painfully obvious Plan B was my only route, I wanted to sustain Plan A longer, I probably even could to some extent, but the returns were lessoning and WH was becoming more and more in control.
Thanks for stopping by. For the most part I am doing ok, but I am also struggling, maybe it's the fact that I have been in Plan B for six months and I miss my H more than I did before. Yes, life is going on. Yes, I am doing things, keeping busy, creating a life for me and my kids.
I feel lost in Plan B. I feel like I am doing nothing but living a life I don't want to live because I had no other choice and each day that goes by, I lose more of myself and my marriage. Do I even have a marriage, am I even a wife anymore. What am I really fighting for.
A man that doesn't care whether I am alive or dead, who cares only for himself and the love of his life, who has in most terms completely abandoned his children and pretty much destroyed 2 out of 3 realtionships with his children. He doesn't care if the bills are paid if his children go hungry or don't have the money to keep doing the things they were doing before this mess.
Instead of slamming him out of my life, I took on the excuses, I layed the blame at my feet and began to change me, to become the woman that G-d has always envisioned for me hoping that G-d would give me just a chance. And I waited and I prayed and I hoped and I walked in faith and I learned to trust G-d. I read scripture I was thirsty for the parts that would help me get by another lonely empty day.
But then life did get somewhat better. That debilitating pain isn't there anymore, just a longing sadness for my children, for my family and for myself. I can go to bed now and talk to G-d and not have my H be the first and last thing I think about. I can pretty much concentrate like I used to and change my thinking when the sadness starts to take hold. I've learned to redirect the stinkin thinkin.
I have learned to truly be happy for those of you who are reaping the benefits of restored marriages, of personaly growth etc, because we have to. We have to support each other and keep supporting each other.
But what do I feel. I feel the loss of the man I love, my best friend, my partner in life. I feel the loss of my safety, my security which is a huge EN. I have learned to survive on my own, to do without financially. I have learned that money doesn't buy happines, broke sucks and I would still prefer to have money.
I have entertained the extent to which I have been abused by my H and certainly by the WH. And I keep on praying for G-d to restore my M. Is it because I love him, took those vows or was so dependent on him that I just can't make my life without him. The short term, but simply not the rest of my life.
I try to be like everyone else, strong, able to keep moving on, keeping a stiff upper lip and doing what is suggested. But the plan fact is, I am in pain still. I hide the pain because I think I should be over this. But I'm not.
I loved a man for 30 years who threw me away like garbage and told me that he wanted something more in life than to be married to his best friend. Over and over his choice was a crack addict with hep c and he just left.
And then the addiction reality comes in. My H is an addict/alcholic who is so far into his addiction that he probably will take years to understand what he has done if ever. So I wait for something that I am supposed to keep having faith in and believe that G-d has a better plan only the simply truth life is on hold.
I'm the doer, the fixer and in this sitch, I can't do anything but take care of myself and build a new life. A life I don't want to participate in, but have to because I have children who need me.
I have no doubts, I'll survive. I have no doubts, there were lessons in life I had to learn. I have no doubts that my heart and this pain will be a part of me for all the days of my life.
Plan B, I think is boring, you aren't doing anything and so I felt like I didn't have anything to offer. Mimi, my mentor suggested otherwise, so here you go. I'm offering what I can.
The truth is, I need you all just as much as I did in those early days only differently. I need your help to continue moving on because I don't want to.
Please help me, please know I am trying so hard, and please know I am here for anyone of you who needs me.
The last thing on my heart. Did I go into Plan B too early. Would it have been better to keep doing Plan A and let my love for him be lost so that it didn't matter whether he came home or not.
But that I stopped loving him. The plans work. I did a great Plan A, it didn't bring him home like Dr. Harley says it doesn't. And Plan B is designed to preserve my love for H should he ever wake up and want to come home. But that hurts just as much. I'm waiting for something with all this love and energy in my heart to walk through and there is nothing....
But keep walking in faith... and hoping.... one day I will hear my H's voice say to me Bright Eyes, I love you.
That is all I ever want in life are those 5 words in that voice of his that I know without a doubt that it's over.
Please pray for his downfall. Please pray that G-d reaches him and brings him home for us to begin the hard task of recovery and giving hope to people on here.
Oh Believer, I need you. The carpo tunnel message - almost all affairs never last. But why is this one lasting? What is it that is driving the sickness do deep, so deadly taken hold?
Well, you have summed up alot of my feelings...and I'm sure alot of others here too...
I don't read here a lot anymore...it hurts...hence the reason why I don't post or haven't posted...i feel your pain and I know it all to well...
I agree that I need the ppl here as much as I did back then...if for anything but a reality check, to see what I don't see...to help keep the faith that there is something better than once was...
I don't understand being thrown aside for less than what he had before...I don't get being trading in Steak for chopped liver...but that's something that I can't allow myself to think about because it's depressing...and will just bring me down...I can't allow that to happen...that's stops progress and the forward motion...
Another times I don't post, because I don't feel that I have anything worth while to offer...
You know those letters for kids that you put on the frig...well, i have spelled out that "God plan is better than mine!" A daily reminder that better will come...doesn't stop the grieving for once was...or at least what I thought I had, which was completely messed up to begin with, just I refused to see it, hoping and wishing that things would change...living in my own fantasy world... I was pretending to be someone that I wasn't for a long time and lost myself in the process...no, I didn't know who I was to begin with...not really...
I wanted things to change but I didn't know how to change them...I can say that I'm happier today with me than I ever was and for that I'm grateful...but I do get lonely and wish that I had someone to love and to love me...I don't want scrapes anymore...
I hope that you can relate and something I say helps in some form or fashion...but in my interaction with XWH over the last what ten months...which has been few and far between...I can't accept what he has to offer me anymore...it's nothing but heartache and pain...and I refuse to go back to that...to always be second in his book...whether that's to hunting, his toys, his women, whatever he choice to put before his family...
My question to you is what do you really want? Do you really want to be second to someone's addiction, whatever that addiction may be? Or do you want someone who gives as much as they receive? It's possible, it's out there...
I think it's the doer in us that gets the best of us...we're not happy sitting still...learning to be a human being and not a human doing...wow, that's tough huh? Is for me!
And it's not that we are unlovable...we are great ppl, changed ppl, for the better...but it's sad and unfortunately it's going to take time...for every five years in, it's going to take a year out...LOL, that's sucks too!
You are doing great...hard to see yourself...but you are!
I am so sorry you are having a bad moment. It sux. I wish i knew what to say to you to make it all better but i don't
I'm no Believer but I do know the stats. 97% of all affairs will end within 2 years. Of the 3% that go onto marriage, 75% will not last beyond 6 years. Thats .75%, not even a whole percent of the original number.
Personally I think your a great woman, and he is going to lose something wonderful when you do a Believer, wake up one day and know your done. Then he'll come crawling.
My mum walked off from my dad 5 years ago, and now she's asking for him to let her come back. He's just moved on himself now and isnt really interested.
Have you ever considered that God is protecting you from something that you can't possibly see? This is something that God has shown me recently.
God knows what lies around the bend on this path we are walking on with Him. He asks us to trust Him, that He knows best, that He has something better for us.
I may never know what God is shielding me from, but I trust Him to keep me safe, and to give me a future like He has promised in Jer. 29:11.
Here's a Psalm that my mom sent to me at a very needed time. (Sometimes I think God just whispers in her ear what to write and she does it, not even realizing what a blessing she is sending).
Ps. 71:20-21
"Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again; from the depths of the earth you will again bring me up. You will increase my honor and comfort me once again."
I also know that my situation mirrors a reality that you may not like.... a WS who remains a WS (waaay past the estimates)!
...I also heard what you EXPECTED to happen by NOW, based on what you HAD in the PAST....that by now WS would have 'hit bottom, seen through the fog, and chosen M recovery with you'....expectations, based on what you had in PAST, that have proven NOT to prevail TODAY....and so are causing you PAIN.... with some LOSS of hope to compensate....
...the TRUTH, Queenie, is that for NOW your WS remains a WS....and you DON'T KNOW what will happen in the future... he MAY remain a WS, or he may NOT...
...what is TRUE, TODAY, is that it's less PAINFUL for Queenie to continue to be REMOVED from WS, someone with no consideration for others, or else be subjected to EVEN greater pain, TODAY.
...let the PAST be....let the FUTURE be....
...base decisions on WHAT IS....TODAY....
I am sorry, Queenie, if I don't make much sense :RollieEyes:.... KNOW that my intention, at least, is to help....
I agree with everyone's posts. From the wonderful scriptures, the lovely & STRONG prayers, to Luna's advice of working with what we have TODAY.
I'm with you, my friend. I do not like the fact that my emotions/continued love for Drac gives him any kind of power in my life. I work hard every day to maintain the control and power of MY life for ME.
I am coming to accept that despite the end of his A, he has no interest in reconciling with me. What he really wants, not even HE knows what it is. It just can't continue to be my problem. Nor can your WS be yours.
I know, easier said than done, isn't it. So as you know full well, take it One Day at a Time.
My question to you is what do you really want? Do you really want to be second to someone's addiction, whatever that addiction may be? Or do you want someone who gives as much as they receive? It's possible, it's out there...
I am glad to see you are well. Thank you--those are the words I needed to remember, the prayer that stays in my heart today and every day. Why should we ever accept less than the good God has in store for us?
Have you ever considered that God is protecting you from something that you can't possibly see?
JT, as time goes on, I know exactly what G-d is protecting me from. He is protecting me from WH. As I delve further into my recovery I am learning about healthy relationships/abuse. I suffered a great deal of emotional abuse from not just WH, but my H. He truly is a sick human being, who I happen to love with all my heart. I want him to be someone different, but that isn't reality.
The reality is he has YEARS of recovery once he figures out what he has done. I have come to terms that G-d is protecting me. The sick human being in me says bring him home and let me fix this, but that's the same ole mess and I know that G-d won't allow that to happen. He has worked to hard in me to have me hurt inside like I did.
Luna,
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I also know that my situation mirrors a reality that you may not like.... a WS who remains a WS (waaay past the estimates)!
Misery loves company? NOT, somehow we will continue to walk through this and come out on the other side however it's meant to be.
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...the TRUTH, Queenie, is that for NOW your WS remains a WS....and you DON'T KNOW what will happen in the future... he MAY remain a WS, or he may NOT...
Exactly, and this is such a hard fact for me. Because it also takes the ability for me to control right out the door. There is nothing I can do, but live a life without him. I hate that thought, but I do it everyday now and realize it might just become natural for me.
I still think I am the one missing out, but then again. I have to look at my blessings. I am the one with awesome relationships with my children. I am the one who holds her head up high and knows she has done everything possible to save this marriage. I am the one who has walked through the absolute horror of pain and annihilation to learn new ways to live and survive. And I am the one who loved him enough to set him free and let him live his life without me.
Oh Luna, you make perfect sense, I just don't like it.
Hi Bugs, nice to see you.
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I do not like the fact that my emotions/continued love for Drac gives him any kind of power in my life. I work hard every day to maintain the control and power of MY life for ME.
Yes, you and I and so many others carry that unique love for our H inspite of what horrendous hurt and destruction they have caused. Is it a testament to the love that once lived or our inability to whatever. I truly don't know what the answer is. But like you, who I respect, admire and love to read about, continue to put one toe in front of the other and just allow life to be what it is beginning to be. In G-ds hands and G-ds plans.
Hi Angie,
I haven't heard from you for so long. How are you doing? '
For all of you who have given me the scripture. It brings me comfort like you can imagine because you have that walk with the Lord. And it's something that I treasure and value most in my life.
I'm so grateful for your support, all of you and just pray for us all everyday and the blessing from G-d to continue as we keep walking the path of life. Regardless of if we like it or not.
I have learned I'm not so special and yet we are all truly miracles.
Now, for the best news. Some of you have heard me trying to get tickets to the Redskins-Seahawks game in November. I have had no luck and tried lots of sources. Not to mention I can't really afford to go. On Tuesday night after choir practice the director threw an envelope to me. Turns out they are not only two tickets to the game, but in the club seats. Oh YES.......
I scored, I'm grateful and I am going to have a blast.
Now, for the best news. Some of you have heard me trying to get tickets to the Redskins-Seahawks game in November. I have had no luck and tried lots of sources. Not to mention I can't really afford to go. On Tuesday night after choir practice the director threw an envelope to me. Turns out they are not only two tickets to the game, but in the club seats. Oh YES.......
I scored, I'm grateful and I am going to have a blast.
Something to look forward to.
I love this! There are times when G-d blesses us out of the blue when we're really hurting. During those times we pray, pray, pray for our needs and hope that G-d will hear.
But when He does something like this... gives us the desires of our heart... it leaves us breathless. How much He loves us! Just as an earthly father finds joy in giving his child a "surprise"... I imagine it's the same with our heavenly Father!
Now, for the best news. Some of you have heard me trying to get tickets to the Redskins-Seahawks game in November. I have had no luck and tried lots of sources. Not to mention I can't really afford to go. On Tuesday night after choir practice the director threw an envelope to me. Turns out they are not only two tickets to the game, but in the club seats. Oh YES.......
...YEEESSSIR! ...and sometimes, when you least expect it!
Enjoy the game, Queenie. For those that trust God there is little that happens by random chance...
If you learn nothing else from all of this, learn that if it was within your power to change what your WH has done and continues to do, it would have been within your power to prevent it.
But it was never within your power to make him anything at all. You could not have made him faithful, less abusive or less addicted. Those were not choices you made for him but choices he made for himself. He is the man he is because of what he chose not what anyone else chose for him.
While God hates divorce and surely hates adultery, it is not His choice for your WH to be the way he is either. But God loves him and YOU enough to let both of you make your own choices. You are choosing to follow Him and your WH is choosing to follow his own selfishness.
So know that God is pleased with you and your choices and does not and will not hold you responsible for whatever choices your WH made in the past or makes in the future.
Numbers 6 (New Living Translation) 24 I pray that the LORD
Mark, your words, how much comfort they bring me beyond measure and understanding but to my soul.
After work tonight I ran into that friend who sees him every so often. She asked him about me and he told her how we haven't been together for two years, it's only been a year and a half.
He just has a new life and has completely blocked that he is married still or a father. He says he emails the children every so often and came to a couple of games, but that's about it.
I finally looked and said, no more. I don't want to hear about his happiness no more. Not when my heart breaks and I go to bed alone at night and miss him or wish there was SOMETHING I could have done.
But you are right. He chose this and continues to destroy children's lives, forget about me. I keep coming back to G-d is protecting me from him because WH chooses what he chooses and continually withheld affection, love and controlled me until there was no fight left but anger, craziness and absolute hatred for myself inside of myself.
I don't even know what to pray for anymore. I just keep praying for G-ds will in my life and my marriage and to help me see the next move. Anything.
So, this weekend, no sun, but cleaning and being a domestic goddess around my apt. I have lots of things to make over time and that will help with the bills.
That's another thing. How he just doesn't pay his bills for his children. Oh well, he will have to deal with the consequences on his actions after the A broke. This one isn't on me.
I have these thoughts running through my head and I need to get them out or I will go nuts.
I know they are redundant and certainly don't matter, but I don't know what to do from here. Is it time to call it quits or just keep still and see what G-d can do.
Do you think that he loves her and is happy with her because he can control her the way he couldn't me. I was more a partner who challenged and fought instead of letting him just do what he wanted and be darned to what was right?
I have these thoughts running through my head and I need to get them out or I will go nuts
OOOHH...Queenie.... please don't hesitate to lighten your heart's and mind's load....it's what we are here for!
What else are you feeling? What would you want to say to WS if he was right there in front of you?
It sounds like hearing about your WS triggered stuff.... it's OK... it's not always bad.... it gives a chance for emotions that are there, a chance to COME UP and be HEARD... and I am not surprised to hear that there is a lot of PAIN, and that you're TIRED and DISCOURAGED (or maybe I am just projecting)
If you don't have the answers now....they will come to you with time...and I am sorry...I know it may not be what you want to hear...
These are the times I wish I could really reach out and give you a REAL hug..... would you do that for me? (left hand on right shoulder and right hand on left shoulder....ME giving you a hug!)
You are so right Cinders, his happiness isn't in my control or even in my life. I just love the darn man, well my H, but it looks like my H is dead and gone.
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What else are you feeling? What would you want to say to WS if he was right there in front of you?
Just complete confusion sometimes. What triggers me is hearing how he has just simply created a new life for himself and that he has completely and utterly blocked his former life away and doesn't feel anything. I can't comprehend.
What would I say to the WH? Absolutely NOTHING. Not one word. I would get away from him as fast and as far as possible. I HATE him, I can't stand him. There is NO TALKING to him. He is cold, empty, not my H and I want NOTHING to do with him. Besides what could I say to him. He has no respect for me, doesn't see me as his wife, just a nothing person, ugly, fat and no one he ever cared about.
Yes, hearing about the WH triggered me big time. But I finally told my friend to stop telling me about him. I didn't want to hear about it anymore. I had never done that before. There is no point. He is a stranger to me.
A man I loved and lived with for over 30 years is a total stranger today and who knows if I will ever see the man I married again.
Yes, hearing about the WH triggered me big time. But I finally told my friend to stop telling me about him. I didn't want to hear about it anymore. I had never done that before.
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It just hurts...
Yes it does.....
and, as Cind says, there is nothing you can do about your WS...
...and I am glad to hear that you asked friend NOT to continue, for QUEENIE's sake....and why Plan B, NOT TO SEE/HEAR/KNOW anything about WS, is to help PROTECT you from experiencing the PAIN in these huge BIG waves....while you learn and have the time HEAL the wound, put boundaries in place, become intolerable to abuse, and all those things required to have a HEALTHY R, whether with WS or not...
I am going back to sleep, because here it's the middle of the night...in addition to acknowledging your PAIN, stop friend from continue talking... is there anything else you CAN DO that would be helpful to you....RIGHT NOW?
I am going back to sleep, because here it's the middle of the night...in addition to acknowledging your PAIN, stop friend from continue talking... is there anything else you CAN DO that would be helpful to you....RIGHT NOW?
Keeping as close to G-d as I possibly can be.
Because like you, I can't sleep and my mind is all over the place of disbelief, pain, denial, all the stuff from the beginning. I just simply can't have any news about WH because it totally sends me into the ickiness and sadness.
Oh Luna, when does it STOP. Why does G-d need us to keep loving them and feeling this. Why can't we block it out like they have so easily done.
How can a man walk away from his children like WH has and be ok with himself. Live a life that he is living. I want that dose of fantasy. I don't want reality anymore.
I'm struggling to breath tonight, the sound in my ear is defening, the heaviness in my heart. I want out!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to fall asleep again and have that nightmare of him in it. Please G-d make this nightmare stop tonight. Please....
I'm struggling to breath tonight, the sound in my ear is defening, the heaviness in my heart. I want out!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to fall asleep again and have that nightmare of him in it. Please G-d make this nightmare stop tonight. Please....
Queenie, I am worried about you when I read this... and I hope you were/are able to call someone, or a hotline of some sort to help you through the acute pain...I remember you attending AL-NON meetings...are you matched with a sponsor?.. you are best not to be dealing alone when feeling so low.
I feel a little powerless to help...so went ahead with the rest of your post....for when you are feeling better...
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Because like you, I can't sleep and my mind is all over the place of disbelief, pain, denial, all the stuff from the beginning. I just simply can't have any news about WH because it totally sends me into the ickiness and sadness.
OK...so you will do better NEXT time...hear even LESS.... because what you DID hear sent you to a place you don't want to go...
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Oh Luna, when does it STOP. Why does G-d need us to keep loving them and feeling this. Why can't we block it out like they have so easily done.
Queenie, do you really think that being insensitive and inconsiderate to yourself and others just so you won't feel the pain is the way you want to be in this world? ....I try to see pain, although at times intolerable, as just a 'message' telling us that needs are not being met (as if we didn't know that already? :crosseyedcrazy:)...and I try to remove the focus from the pain to 'figuring out' what the need is....and see what 'I' CAN DO about it....
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How can a man walk away from his children like WH has and be ok with himself. Live a life that he is living. I want that dose of fantasy. I don't want reality anymore.
Do you really believe this, Queenie? I thought that was the problem with addiction...not being able to stop doing something even though 'somehow' knowing that it's not healthy and hurting everyone around you...and wanting the next 'fix' to help forget?
...please give us a SIGN as soon as you can on how you are doing....it would really help...
I'm ok. I'm not going to do anything. I just want out of my skin, out of my feelings, out of this sadness. I pushed it down and then hearing about WH just pushed it back up.
The need I have is too love someone and be loved. I am learning to take care of myself, accept myself and yes love myself. But the truth is it isn't a man and it isn't the same. And I just miss the physical ness of a relationship. Remember, WH withheld physical touch from me for over a year while he was in the A and said he couldn't trust me and I wasn't safe.
Yes, there are things I can do, but the truth is I want the intimacy and I'm just not getting it.
And no of course not, I don't want to REALLY have those characteristics of WH, insensitive, uncaring, stupid, life in fantasy, it just was night, the pain was so strong and I was alone in bed.
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I thought that was the problem with addiction...not being able to stop doing something even though 'somehow' knowing that it's not healthy and hurting everyone around you...and wanting the next 'fix' to help forget?
That is the problem with addiction, but you know what it still somedays seems better than reality. But then I just realized that of course he couldn't face reality of what he has done because it's too destructive so he just lives in that addiction full time to escape the pain. If it were drugs/alcohol it would be a lot easier. But a white trailier trash creature, and him not using just makes it harder to accept and longer for recovery to happen.
Because the truth is he could lie to himself forever to escape the pain that he lives in. And that's why he is doing what he is doing, because he can't deal with pain, the real honest truth pain and now what he has done has created the worst possible pain for the man I love and he is so far gone, who knows if he ever comes around.
So on the one hand, I can completely relate, but on the other hand, I'm selfish, self-seeking enought to want to feel like a woman and be touched and held and told I am a human being other than a thrown away wife.
I will get through this, but for all of us, the wave just came in and I need to ride it, learn the lessons, wait for it to leave and pick myself up and keep going.
Thank you Luna for caring.... I really appreciate your concern and your words. You are one smart cookie!!!!!!!!!!!!
We all feel your pain. We've been there and still go there just as you do. It's a normal process. I do the same thing whenever I hear anything about WH. It's just better not to hear anything at all.
Question - Are you sure your WH is not using? I would think that it would be hard to live with someone who is and not fall into it again if you have had problems with it in the past. Just his behavior seems to point to it. In any case, I believe that you are right about everything else. If they totally ignore us and everything they left behind, they don't have to face the reality of the situation. It's easier that way. Just as we have Plan B as our defense mechanism, they have that as theirs.
How can a man walk away from his children like WH has and be ok with himself. Live a life that he is living. I want that dose of fantasy. I don't want reality anymore.
He does it the same way anyone sins. He buys the lie that he has the right to choose for himself what is right and what is wrong. He accepts as his own the authority that belongs only to God.
He does it by transferring his own guilt for what he has done to others. He blames you, the kids, even CrackHo for the choices he has made.
Just like Eve believed the serpent and bought the lie that she had the right to choose for herself what is good. Just like Eve when asked by God if she had eaten of the tree He had forbidden said "The serpent made me do it."
And when Adam was asked why he ate too said "The woman that YOU gave me..."
Those lost in their own sin even blame God for their sin...
The prophet Hosea was told by God to take as his wife a woman who had very loose morals. She cheated with other men and even bore children by those other men. Hosea let her go her own way and she became a prostitute, ending up at the lowest point of society.
It wasn't till she hit bottom and had gone as low as she could go that God sent her husband to redeem her. He bought her back for half the price of a typical slave. She was worth only half as much as any other human life. She had sunk so low she was really sub-human.
The story of Hosea and his wife Gomer was the story of God and His bride, Israel. It is really the story of all mankind. When we have seen Him and still go our own way, when we know the truth and still choose to follow the lie, He let's us go our own way.
Those that plummet quickly to the bottom and hit the point of coming to the end of themselves are those who think that what they are doing is the right way to go.
Those that take longer to get to the bottom and find themselves in need of redemption as their only hope are the ones that know they are going the wrong direction and try in desperation to cling to some semblance of what they really know is right. They struggle against not only God but also themselves, for they KNOW that what they do is wrong and yet they choose to continue. They do this because they believe it is already too late to turn back. They claw and fight to keep from falling only to tumble over the edge in the end.
And Then, God can pick them up and return them to where they should be.
Sadly, some fight to keep from the consequences of their choices until the day they die. But some look up from the gutter their life has become and cry out for help and find the very hand of God pulling them back into the land of the living.
You see Queenie, you understand this from AA. It is really something that is common to all mankind. We are all addicted to having things our own way and until we want to change, God just lets us continue the way we are going.
How does your WH turn his back on his family? The same way he turned his back on God. Just like God removed his hand of protection from Israel and let the nation be conquered and returned to slavery once more, God will let your WH slide as far as he needs to go and watch him fall till he wants to stop.
Your WH is prolonging that eventual bottom by attempting to make normal what he is doing. He has made adultery his normal way of life and is trying to make it right though he himself knows it is not.
Proverbs 14:27
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death.
I'm struggling to breath tonight, the sound in my ear is defening, the heaviness in my heart. I want out!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to fall asleep again and have that nightmare of him in it. Please G-d make this nightmare stop tonight. Please....
(((((((Queenie))))))))
Sweetie, Honey.....you will be okay. BELIEVE THAT...look at where you are today VS. a year ago. Yes, you are still having bad days and moments, but they seem to be fading in frequency for you.
And you cannot block it out because you learned better. You looked your marriage straight in the eyes and acknowledged your mistakes. It takes a BIG AND STRONG person to do that. Your WS is not there. And he may never get there. I wish so bad I could look into the future and tell you what may happen, but I can't. Today though I can give you my shoulder and let you lean on us for support......
I love ya honey....I want well for you.....oh, and before I forget....YEAH YEAH YEAH on those tickets. See how well you are loved and blessed????......
Oh honey, your pain and dispair just touch me. And luna is right,,,,next time you are that low, call someone to help you. Heck, CALL ME....you have my number and if not, I can give it to you again. I may not be close enough to come over, but I will help talk you through it......
And as far as wanting to love someone and be loved. It is happening. Maybe not in a "romantic" way, which is what you are missing, but look around you. You have so many on here who love you, your children, your synagog....hey, those tickets ALONE prove that...(so who you gonna take??? I can book a flight out if you want....wink wink...). YOu spread so much joy...to all of us.....
I once had a therapist who like to focus on spiritual healing. So, we talked G-d and FOO issues and about healing and letting go.
When there is a poison in your life, you have to give up your hold on it. We did a lot of interactive prayer and visioning stuff. One of the prayers was to help me release then-stbx from my heart. So, while Mona prayed, I had to tell her what I saw and heard and felt. That time, I saw then-stbx in a little boat floating away on a lake surrounded by mountains. I saw the back of him and he was definitely going away from me. It was so helpful to have a vision focused on him going away.
We also talked about did I think G-d loved him and was I ok w/ his claiming to follow G-d and be so spiritually ok with the devastation he was causing. Basically, I told her that I had issues with him claiming to be following G-d's will for himself. But, at the same time, I thought G-d still loved him just as human parents love their children even when the children mess up.
Mona's thought was that I should turn him over to G-d and let G-d love him an extra large amount because, at that time, he was a troubled child.
The visioning and letting go of my x was helpful.
I know you are less desirous of your wh than you were. Do you need to go to the next step in letting him go?
What could you do to protect your heart?
I don't have magic words right now but I wish I did. I would say them for you. I really would.
Hey, all you people who pray...this isn't funny but it's something my children need. Their dad's father is in the hospital with a fever. He has a small cell lung cancer which is really bad and he's about at the end of the survival range given his diagnosis. Their grandmother is sick w/ a stomach virus or something. Lift them up, please.
My daughter has been very upset since she found out her grandaddy was back in the hospital. She wants him to be at her graduation in May. I just don't know if that is possible. This couple has always been nice to me. Even if they took x's side.
Cinders, how is your family doing and ex father in law? Is there anything besides prayers we can do.
Thanks Bridges, I don't believe I have ever talked to you before, but thank you for your wishes. I'll have to read up about you and your story.
I made it through the wave. I'm way better and just being. I hadn't felt that low in a long time. I had planned to take my YS to the game, but he doesn't want to go, so I am not sure who yet,maybe my DD.
Mark, I will look at the pictures in a second, thank you so much for sending them.
I am doing better you guys. The sadness, that pain, it's amazing how it still lives, but it went back into hiding and I'm grateful to you all and G-d for walking me through it.
Queenie - the grandfather is out of the hospital...daughter got to talk to him last night and it made her day. The prognosis at the time of diagnosis was 2-4 months. That was in late spring/early summer. He is about 84 or 85. They have been trying chemo but it wipes out his white cells so, in all this time, they've only gotten in about 3 chemo treatments. This morning, I found out they are going to stop chemo until they can get him healthier. I am afraid this is a short slide to the end. Daughter is very close to her grandaddy and really wants him at her high school graduation on May 20. Pray hard.
Queenie, did you click on the link and listen to the lyric of the song? Can you relate to it?
Yes I can absolutely relate to it. I just can't imagine the REST of my life without him.
So, today I know that I can make it without him. Just today is all I have to do.
What a beautiful song. I think I need to keep listening to this.
Cinders, You can bet that your family is added to my prayer list as hard as I can. If there is anything at all that I can do to help, please please let me know.
Hi JT,
How's school going? Yes fall arrived with a bang. I hear it's supposed to be WET and WINDY.....
This morning, I found out they are going to stop chemo until they can get him healthier. I am afraid this is a short slide to the end. Daughter is very close to her grandaddy and really wants him at her high school graduation on May 20. Pray hard.
I am going to visit my dad in a few weeks. He's in his 70s...same situation... his body can't take the treatment...with no other options.
Yes...it would be a great gift to him and your daughter were he to be present at her graduation... their relationship being so close and special... He will certainly be in my prayers.
Take care, Cind.
(sorry for the t/j Queenie)
Queenie,
Glad to hear you're out of the woods....can I say...for now? (...because I don't want you to be surprised....you may visit those woods again....hopefully...less and less often....but NOW you'll know your way around...better :crosseyedcrazy:..RIGHT!?! :RollieEyes:
Queenie I am sorry I missed our chat the other night. Things got kinda crazy here.
Well Happy New Year my friend. Needless to say I work late and will not be able to start things at home in the evening. I will be sure to talk to the kid about the importance of these next few days are.
David committed adultery w/ Bathsheba and then called Uriah home and told him to go home to his wife for the night. According to Rabbi Saul, it was against Hebrew law for Uriah to do that while his soldiers were engaged in battle.
Do you know the reference for that? I wanted to know for another MBer who doesn't believe me simply because he has never heard it before.
I could call the rabbi but he doesn't know me and I really hate to bother him. But, I thought you might be willing to see if you can find it. I don't want to be big trouble though - because I know Rabbi Saul can give it to me quickly.
The Talmud rules that she was not married. The law was that before a man went out to war he was required to divorce his wife. This was a necessary precaution taken to protect the wife. In case the husband would die in battle and no one could testify to the fact, the wife would not be an "Agunah" (chained to her possibly deceased husband) and would be free to remarry. If, however, the husband did return from the battlefield safe and sound – the couple was free to remarry. Uriah, too, issued this divorce to his wife and thus, according to Jewish law, King David had relations with a divorced woman.
King David summoned Bathsheba he "sent and inquired about the woman." If David, the absolute monarch, desired this woman and was willing to go to any length to fulfill his "fantasy," why did he first send messengers to inquire regarding Bathsheba? He should have sent messengers to "summon" the woman. It is evident that before David summoned her he wished to determine her marital status. Only after ascertaining that she was, in fact, the (divorced) wife of Uriah, did he make his advance.
David was a man of action, and he had found the woman who was worthy of being the grandmother of Moshiach. He immediately dispatched messengers to ascertain that she was divorced from Uriah, and did not hesitate to consummate the union.
summons Uriah from the battlefield, and tells him to go to his "wife." His intention was for Uriah to respond: "Your Majesty, Bathsheba is currently not my wife. I divorced her before leaving in the King's service!" For some reason, Uriah refuses to do so, and instead insults the king, incurring the death penalty. David, perhaps taking in to consideration Uriah's courageous service in his army, chooses to allow him to die an honorable death on the battlefield rather then be executed for treason.
The Zohar maintains that David’s principle sin was: "him [Uriah] you have killed by the sword of the children of Ammon"(Samuel II 12:9 ). David ought to have brought Uriah to the Sanhedrin where they would have executed him in accordance with Jewish law. Instead, by having him killed in the battle against Ammon, David caused a "chillul Hashem" – a desecration of G-d’s name. The children of Ammon were now able to take credit for killing a Jew, and give honor and praise to their deity for this "triumph."
Considering the potential of David it was upsetting to G-d that he summoned Bathsheba in this discreet roundabout way, and that he had Uriah killed by the hands of enemies. Thus G-d resented, the Prophet rebuked, and David repented
King David was too holy to have erred in the incident of Bathsheba. He only stumbled in order to teach us a lesson, to set a precedent of a Tzadik who does sincere repentance. As is known, David spent thirteen years repenting for his "sin." Many of the most beautiful psalms were composed by King David during this period. The Midrash testifies that for those thirteen years, King David’s pillow had to be changed seven times every night for they were drenched with his tears!
When we look back at G-d's anger and David's repentence through our paradigm, we quickly assume that it must have been a grave sin. But when we view the story through the lense of Torah's guide-for-the-future we soon learn that even circumstantial mishaps require ample repentance.
The passage in II Samuel about David and Bathsheba begins in chapter 11. Verse 1 says that in spring when kings led their armies off to war, David sent Joab with the Israeli army off to battle.
David was already not doing what he was called to do by God when he walked onto his roof and saw Bathsheba. He was already likely in a mode of justifying before God the choices he had made. He was already acting selfishly instead of putting the good of the kingdom God had given him ahead of his own personal comfort and well being.
So when he saw Bathsheba, it was an easy step for him to fall into that sin because he was already in sin against God by not doing what God expected him to do.
The cost to David was a family that simply went all to pieces very quickly. He could no longer speak to his sons from the moral high ground and it led to consequences that lasted for generations.
I have a post about this chapter and a few others in my Musings thread on page 9 called The Women of David.
Queenie,
Glad to see you pulling it back together. I was getting a bit worried about you there for a while...
I am so caught between keep holding on or just simply saying enough and walking away from my M.
When it's time to walk away you'll know, because you will have decided to do it.
Right now you are in pain and the episode that just happened heightened that pain for a time. It is a wish for the pain to stop that drives your desire to just let it all go, but that isn't what would happen. What would be as likely to happen would be that you would still be in pain over WH's A and maybe additional pain over regrets for not holding out longer.
Eventually you will have peace about one or the other. Someday, maybe soon or maybe not for another year or more, you will arrive at a point where you will no longer care what WH does. That is when it is time to move on.
I'm not saying don't throw in the towel and file for the big D, just don't let it be because you are trying to escape the pain of the A. That I'm afraid will be around a while yet whether you divorce and move on or sit and wait.
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I am not getting the subtle messages though.
When it's time He will turn up the volume. You will KNOW what to do. Until that answer comes, wait for Him.
But those who wait upon God get fresh strength. They spread their wings and soar like eagles, They run and don't get tired, they walk and don't lag behind. Isaiah 40:31 (The Message)
Queenie, when I was starting on my divorce journey, a friend told me to listen for G-d to speak to me and to pay attention to the messages. She said they might come from books, friends, anywhere but to keep my eyes, ears, and heart open. And, those messages came from all sorts of places.
One night, I was driving to Florida and was going through deepest darkest LA (Lower Alabama) when I passed this little church. Nothing much around for miles. No town. Just a smattering of houses and this little church. The sign in front was lit and said, "SEEK G-D AND HE WILL FIND YOU"
Seek Him. He'll be there.
Don't worry about all those other questions....answers will come.
Dueteronomy 29:29 The Lord our God keeps certain things hidden. But he makes other things known to us and our children forever. He does it so we can obey all of the words of this law.
Thanks for the words of wisdom, you are very right. Problem is, what I hear most now is to D him and find happiness by moving on and beginning a new life with someone else.
Over and over again. I just seem to be fighting it.
Thanks for the words of wisdom, you are very right. Problem is, what I hear most now is to D him and find happiness by moving on and beginning a new life with someone else.
Hey Queenie, please don't think I'm being trite, this is your marriage we are talking about but I think that when God wants you to make the move He will change your mind, or make the situation so that you will want to. Its how I gave up smoking. I knew it was a good idea, but I didnt want to. When God wanted me to, I did. SAme for all the MB stuff like Plan B I think. I always dragged my heels then suddenly I just knew I had to do it.
Actually I am probably being judgemental by assuming God taklks to you like He does to me, but when its time, you will know.
Queenie, when I was starting on my divorce journey, a friend told me to listen for G-d to speak to me and to pay attention to the messages. She said they might come from books, friends, anywhere but to keep my eyes, ears, and heart open. And, those messages came from all sorts of places.
I agree with Cinders... It will be from anywhere and as I said to you earlyer you will just know when the times are right Q.
When it's time to walk away you'll know, because you will have decided to do it.
Right now you are in pain and the episode that just happened heightened that pain for a time. It is a wish for the pain to stop that drives your desire to just let it all go, but that isn't what would happen. What would be as likely to happen would be that you would still be in pain over WH's A and maybe additional pain over regrets for not holding out longer.
... think Monsieur Mark is right on the money! :RollieEyes:
...your wanting to 'walk away' now from M may not be for the rights reasons.... if so, it will add to the pain and not lessen it...
...your pain was intense though...(think of a major turn on the rollercoaster and you were NOT holding on tight!) ....so all the more reason to go DARK DARK, and NOT hear anything about WS...and to STOP anybody who think they are HELPING by offering info. about WS...TELL them...they are NOT!
....and no, I doubt very much that your WS is 'happy'...and Mimi is right....you know better!
...so glad to hear you are doing better... THOSE moments creep up on you....so be very VIGILENT!
I'll say that rollercoaster was the worst in a long time. But I did get through it. I have told people to not tell me about him anymore and I am glad I got up enough nerve to say that.
I did reach out to H's aunt, best friend and another friend. I didn't get to speak to A or BF, but did other friend. It was funny, b/s his GF answered the phone and she was very uneasy about my call. I told identified myself and told her I needed F's input and help and I was no threat. I was fighting for my M.
We had a wonderful talk. He knows the man I speak of, he knows how much he loved me and was completely devoted too. It helped to have someone remember that man along with me. He is absolutely stunned by what has happened. And he is going to get ahold of BF and talk it through with him for input. I told him I didn't know what he could do to help, but prayer and help me stay strong for my H. Because, I'm weakening in my resolve and I need RLF to support me.
So, I'm glad I talked to him, he heard the love I have for my H and knows that this man I speak of once existed and that its good I am fighting for him to come home.
There is only one person left who I could talk to for prayers, but I need to leave it alone now. I got my strength built back up and feel comforted that my H lived once upon a time and maybe with enough prayers G-d will let him come home.
I agree, stay DARK, DARK, DARK... The only way for me to survive, but I also need reminders that I can fight this and G-d can win.
Queenie - Hang in there girl, and let G-d do his stuff. Remember that this stuff takes lots of time. I'm just now reaping the rewards of my trial, and it has been 5 years.
I'll say that rollercoaster was the worst in a long time. But I did get through it. I have told people to not tell me about him anymore and I am glad I got up enough nerve to say that.
I'm not sure I am getting the message from you. Is the suggestion to keep waiting. I get you are reaping the rewards of the trial. Do you wish you had held out longer and not gotten D?
Hi Luna,
As hard as it is, everyone is right. Have NOTHING to do with WH and staying dark is just the safest and healthiest to be.
I'm lonely and want physical attention and I know that's running me. It's been so long since I have been touched by someone who wanted me and that was and continues to be my most important EN.
I have consulted my rabbis about a D. Just for information sake. I have to laugh as in Judaism best, there are two differing opinions and I haven't heard from the student rabbi yet. One rabbi says that I can't date and one says that I can as long as SF isn't part of the relationship. While I am able to get a legal D, in Jewish law it is WH that needs to begin proceedings. I was married twice, the first time in Reno and the second time under the chupah. I have a ketubah (marriage contract) between us and feel that we were married in Jewish law, however my H's conversion didn't take place until after we were married. So I need to look into whether I am bound by Jewish law or not.
I don't know what I am looking at this except, I'm beaten down from my IRL people. NO ONE supports my decision to stay married and buy into the statistics.
Actually that's a lie, there are three people. His friends and his aunt. They know the man I talk about, but the reality is my H doesn't exist and hasn't for years.
I could just use a little pep talk, I'm not stupid and that A do end and these WH come back to their families, because NO ONE buys it.
I was doing a little research on getting a Jewish divorce.
Wrong. A secular, or civil, divorce has no religious validity in dissolving the marital ties of the Jewish couple. In other words, a civilly divorced couple is still married according to Jewish law until a Jewish divorce has been granted; that is, Jewish law will consider the parties still married until such time as distinct Jewish religious legal proceedings are performed. In order for a divorce to be complete, thus severing all marital ties of a couple, a Jewish husband must issue his wife a get. [I would like to see a translation of the get].
Since the writing of a get is a complex and delicate matter, a Jewish divorce must be conducted by experts. "Those [rabbis] who are not well-versed in the intricacies of marriage and divorce may not participate in divorce proceedings" (Kiddushin 6a). The get proceedings may roughly be broken down into the following nine steps: (1) The parties appear before a rabbi learned in the laws of divorce, a scribe, and two witnesses; (2) The husband requests that the scribe write the get for his wife, which the scribe then proceeds to do using a special quill pen; (3) The husband declares that he is giving the get of his own free will, and a similar declaration is made by the wife concerning its receipt; (4) At this point, the get is then signed by the two witnesses; (5) The parties are again questioned as to whether they are giving and accepting the get voluntarily. The husband must state that he will never in the future cast any doubt on the validity of the get; (6) the husband takes the get and drops it directly into his wife's cupped hands, stating: "This is your get and you are divorced from me, and are permitted to marry any man"; (7) She then places the get under her arm and symbolically leaves by turning and moving several steps away; (8) the divorcée then returns and the get is taken from her by the officiating rabbi who tears the get crosswise; and (9) finally, the divorced woman is given a receipt to prove her divorced status, and the process is over. The reason that the get is destroyed right before the end of the ceremony and not given to the divorcée to keep is so that no other man may use the get to claim that he has divorced his wife; it is always possible that another man will try to change the names on a get to meet his own ends, so the rabbis instituted this practice and instead give the woman a receipt of her divorcement from her ex-husband. From the Jewish religious standpoint, once a husband issues his wife a get, it completely severs his marital relationship, even if they are not civilly divorced. This is a rather simple process, but the fact that only a husband may issue a get may lead to all types of conflict between a divorcing couple.
There is NO WAY I would be able to survive this. NO WAY or walk through this and come out whole. And WH would know that, especially since I don't want to be separated.
The only out I possibly have at this point where a D is the only thing I need is that WH conversion date was AFTER we renewed our vows under the chupah. In a way I hope Jewish law does not apply in this case and I was never married to him in Jewish law.
I'm lonely and want physical attention and I know that's running me. It's been so long since I have been touched by someone who wanted me and that was and continues to be my most important EN.
Are you speaking of SF or PHYSICAL AFFECTION? Wouldn't SF be a long time coming in a NEW RELATIONSHIP anyways????
Both actually. I haven't been on a date in over 30 years, I have no clue how long it takes.
Seriously, I just want to be with someone who desired me or touched me in a male/female way. It's been 2 1/2 years since someone touched me as a woman.
As for what I want. I want this to be over. I want to know what to do and G-d is being pretty quiet these days except to tell me how flippin hard it would be to be completely D.
Queenie,I can so relate to all that you have described about how you feel right now... Its scary that we can be 100% ok for days and then suddenly someone or something said knocks you flying backwards.....
In my situation,the boys going between me and WH causes me lots of bad moments... Hang in there....
Seriously, I just want to be with someone who desired me or touched me in a male/female way. It's been 2 1/2 years since someone touched me as a woman.
That's a LONG TIME, Queenie. You think/feel your H has been GONE for THAT LONG..emotionally if not just physically????
I've been lurking but haven't had a lot of time to post.
Queenie, I know how you feel. I'm right there with you. I think we all have the same ups and downs, however they come at different intervals and with different intensities.
It's a process, so don't go against your gut. You will do what you are going to do when you are d@mn well ready to do it. Not before. You will come to the right decision for you when you are ready.
All this letting go is a process. It goes up and down and on and on until, one day,....... It's amazing to look back periodically and see the process through which you have grown.
You think/feel your H has been GONE for THAT LONG..emotionally if not just physically????
YES I DO.
What I can't figure out is how. What he told me and what she looks like just doesn't add up. But neither does the addictive mind so I need to not go there.
The challenge I face is that on Apr 1, 06. YS had his bar mitzvah. I thought things at that time were absolutely the best they had EVER been, but then we did taxes and we got into a very huge fight or rather I had a huge AO because he stopped earning overtime and never said a word to me about it and our financial troubles just got worse.
It was between that date and May 06 that he met her, but I don't know exactly when. We were problem solving how to get out financially and I just don't understand.
I have not had SF since Mar 06 and with that being my number one EN, has just put me in a place where I don't know what to do. For a solid year while he was having his A, he would push me away, even got the marriage counselor to get SF off the table for 3 months and told us at the table I wasn't safe to him and he couldn't trust me.
So.... do I want a D, NO. I think I have said before, I will give this until 2nd D-day and reevaluate filing for D. It's I do it then or wait two more years until YS graduates from high school and off to his own life.
I don't have to decide today, but I am giving myself permission to have that thought. Which for those of you who know me, that is SO HUGE. But I'm like Chai, if I am the one to file, then ultimately I am the one to break the marriage up and I don't know if I could do that. How would my kids feel?
Hi Cinders and Chai,
I don't think letting go is what I struggle with this most. It's cutting the string and making there be no more hope. You know, getting D and then having this turn around and it be too late.
But that isn't today and G-d is busy with Rosh Hashana, so I can just concentrate on the New Year.
if I am the one to file, then ultimately I am the one to break the marriage up and I don't know if I could do that.
((((Queenie))))....
Honey, you know this is not true. Your WH was the one to break up the marriage. He just didn't have the cahonna's to do it properly.
If and when you get to this point, tell yourself you are Rambo, in "First Blood"....you know the line, "They drew first blood captain, not me. They drew first blood...".
Yes it is HUGE for you to be thinking on these lines, AND when you get to where you are ready for this, you know we will all be here to help support you.....
The Torah portion read throughout the world today on Rosh Hashanah is about Isaac and Abraham and the unyielding trust that Abraham had for G-d. I have gone to services for 19 or so years and have NEVER truly HEARD the torah portion until today.
The rabbis sermon was about making good choices and living life. I sat there praying about D WH, and I had for one split second thought that was G-ds will for me, however, not one second later, WH's identical car went driving by the window. That shook me to my roots and I have been reeling with it for hours.
On the way home from services, WH called YS to have him come meet him and get a card/present for OS, who he hasn't spoken to for 9 1/2 months and remember didnt' go to his graduation.
Evidently WH called OS and left a message, but OS deleted it and tore up the card without reading it. WH didn't get to witness the pain and watch your baby shut down emotionally from the pain. I did. I got to witness the hurt words in his heart. WH got to drive away and think he had been the awesome dad today by calling him son and getting him a present.
What he doesn't know is OS just simply rejected him.
It's Rosh Hashanah, and my family is still torn asunder and I HATE it. I don't want to feel this pain ANYMORE. It's too much for me. I thought it was over, I thought I could really imagine life without him, but one view of his car and it wasn't even his, came rushing back like a knife to my soul.
I wish I could drink, I tried to eat the pain away, didn't help and now I am heading to my Jewish AA meeting because that is the safest place I can think to be.
I really hope G-d understands I need to know what he wants me to do because I am truly caught between two worlds of not knowing and wanting to just stop feeling.
Nice to see you Not, hopefully we can catch up on life soon.
I used to hold the telephone to my 2.5 year old son's ear so he could talk to his daddy. All the time, I was crying. I know it's tough.
Queenie
Queenie, who left the home? Who left the children? Who left God? Who left their vows in the dust? Who left the marriage?
It wasn't you!
Queenie
It may reach the point where you leave the legal relationship but you weren't the one who ended the marriage? At this point, it seems all you have is a legal relationship.
Queenie
And your children will always know you were the one who was there.
Nope, you don't have to decide anything until you are ready to decide.
What I think is funny, is that both or our WH's left, don't want to be M anymore, blame us etc. but what I can't figure out is why neither one of them has filed for a D. What's up with that?
Mark,
Were the fish biting? My dad used to fish. He had this $7000 bass boat for fishing, but I never saw him catch a fish. Any fish. He threw the line in and if he didn't catch a fish in 30 seconds, he would proclaim that the fish weren't biting there and move down about 100 feet and do it again. And he always complained of the sun, how hot it was, how humid, etc. I guess we girls just don't get it sometimes.....
I don't think I have ever posted to you before, but I have been following your thread lately. There is so much that I can relate to.
I am also a recovering alcoholic, 19 years and sometimes I am so jealous of people that can tie one on and just forget for awhile. I feel like working through this sober has got to cut down the recovery time, but WOW, I can't imagine how long it would take if I was still drinking and not dealing with this stuff.
I also grappled with being the one to file for the divorce. Actually, 6 months after I filed, I told WH I was withdrawing my petition and he would have to counterfile if he wanted this to continue. I just NEEDED him to do SOMETHING to take ownership of his part in where we were. He did counterfile, so my lawyer said, I never saw the papers. But I needed him to stand up and say, I want this divorce. This was not going to be something I DID TO HIM.
I could relate to the OS present thing. My Ex is a disneyland dad and the kids miss their 'real dad' so much. They won't ever talk to him about it, though. They just come home and dump all over me. He thinks he is SuperDad because his small children don't want to hurt his feelings.
SF is also in my top 3 ENs. I have alot of respect for the dignity that you are conducting yourself with. I "acted out" a little after the D was final and it just made me feel crappier.
Please don't think that a D means you give up hope, at least I didn't. I have been divorced for 1.5 years and am just NOW starting to realize there is no hope for reconcilation. Nothing magically turned off when the judge dropped the gavel.
I have enjoyed your post about the Jewish faith. I had always had an interest and your post have led me to some research. Your description of the divorce process was heart breaking to read. I don't think I could make it through that either. In my legal divorce, I broke down in tears when the judge asked me if I wanted the divorce.
I have respect for you, thank you for letting me witness your journey. I have no doubt that you will have inspiring testimony to share from this terrible chapter one day.
Thank you so much for stopping by. WOW, 19 years, that is awesome. Yeah, it would seem so much easier to just tie one on and not feel anymore. But it's the afterwards that will get ya, won't it. I don't think I would want to face life if I did relapse as much as it appeals at times.
Your words of support and hope mean a lot. I don't know what G-d has planned for me. I know that I keep going on, even when I don't want to.
Divorce, am I ready. NO.... I don't know if I could go two years in Plan B without filing first. Because I just don't see anything, any movement but WH being his own selfish person.
My journey of healing and learning to love myself has taken one more step. I went to my first eating addicts anonymous meeting. I'm not ready to commit totally, but I am close. My food is out of control and I'm gaining weight. Now, I'm sure most of you can't relate, but if there are some who secretly can. I felt like I was at home, especially when we started sharing our stories of eating. It's amazing. I kinda have given myself permission to get it out of me until after Yom Kippur, but then I'm done. I need to seriously address this.
My food is one way of not feeling pain, and yet it's not working either. I have to be honest, I 'm not nearly in the pain I was in the beginning, it's just deeper somehow.
I know, Mimi, get your 2 x 4 ready, but I see how so many people are getting recovered in their M or moving on and for some silly reason I keep thinking H will fight through.
Oh Jean, there is just no way I would survive that, my hat is off to you for your strength.
YS told me that WH invited him to play soccer with him today and next week. WH told me that he resented that I didn't get up at 6:45 am to go with him and watch him play soccer, he took the boys with him, I never stopped him from going. So, my heart is hurting thinking that YS might finally meet OW next week. I can't worry about it, but it absolutely sickens me.
I can only hope that WH is starting to miss being a dad or his children. But I have no way of knowing really.
Jean, I feel like I should be so further along like many others, but it is what it is. People question whether I really loved H or it was just an unhealthy relationship from the beginning. Partly it is, but I also know without a doubt our "dry drunk" ran our life for SO MANY years and I keep praying that he will find himself into the rooms of AA and begin to understand where the true problems were. His journey for sure, but painful to watch and know its there.
Thanks Cinders, I'm going to go listen to it in a few.
Shabbat Shalom Mark, glad you are still getting to fish. Do you stop for the winter or do a different kind.
How about another sermon when you have time. Selfishly it brings me such comfort.
Cinders why do I believe I am still the LOSER in all this.
Why can't I see WH for the trash he is and lose my love for him and just get it over with and move on. Why do I keep wishing that the man I once knew will come home one day.
Cinders why do I believe I am still the LOSER in all this.
Why can't I see WH for the trash he is and lose my love for him and just get it over with and move on. Why do I keep wishing that the man I once knew will come home one day.
Queenie, I think all BS's feel that way when going through the process. I think that those of us who don't get the chance to recover eventually accept it and make other plans with our lives.
I recently met a lady whose xWH married the OW. She said it took her over two years to get to the point of allowing herself to plan her new life. Right before the A, her teenaged son committed suicide. I can't even imagine how she made it through, but she did and 7 years later she is doing well. Just look across the street Queenie. Maybe we wouldn't trade places with our neighbors.
I still don't think you've fallen in love with YOURSELF!! I get the sense that you are being SELF-DESTRUCTIVE. Do you think you need HIM to FEEL WHOLE?
What kind of SELF-TALK are you using? Are you talking to yourself when you bring that food up to your mouth? Are you telling YOURSELF that YOU do not deserve to be treated as badly as he is treating you? Are you telling yourself THAT over and over again?
What kind of SELF-TALK are you using? Are you talking to yourself when you bring that food up to your mouth? Are you telling YOURSELF that YOU do not deserve to be treated as badly as he is treating you? Are you telling yourself THAT over and over again?
Of course not. That would be what healthy people say.
But Mimi I am an addict when it comes to food. Sometimes I just don't even realize I am in to the food until it's too late and then I can't stop. This isn't about HIM. It's about me, my pattern and a life long one at that.
Before alcohol and drugs, there was food. Then I got clean and sober, then I was in a dry drunk and for so long I have worked on myself, but as time goes on, as WH continues to just be gone the self-hatred took over and I am eating again.
I'm an addict, I am working on recovery from this. I won't give in, and I won't do it on my OWN.
You know I love you, you know I respect you. I'm asking you to understand it's part of the addictive mind and disease. My food has taken me by surprise, I'm not taking it sitting down, but I'm not in recovery yet.
Understand I am fighting as hard as I can and doing the best I can today.
Self-hatred is part of the food deal. When I get back from AA or tomorrow, can we continue this and help you understand if possible it's not something I do on purpose or can just stop. It will be a long recovery process.
But I am a GODDESS, my HEAD IS UP, CHEST OUT and I am fighting with G-d on my side.
I was so absolutely destroyed I didn't want to eat. I wanted to die. And then I started getting healthy, and my natural instinct is not to be in that state.
I want you to be hard on me. But I also need you to know I am not avoiding, skipping or laying excuses. I am an addict with food and this is absolutely the fight of my life.
I thought when D-day happened and I lost all that weight it would be better, but it wasn't. And this is by far the deepest battle for G-d with me.
But fight it I will and work hard i will but mostly I will surrender to G-d and ask for help because I can't do it alone.
HI ya Queenie, just wanted to say a few things... 1. I love you 2. you are awesome 3. I love you 4. I admire your strength to fight against you addictive nature. And not only that but to recognise it...not try to hide it. 5. I love you 6.I can never thank you enought for your emails when I was in a bad way. 7. I love you
Where's the woman who encouraged me to write to her one night, speiling every cuss word I knew to help release the poison that was building up in me. And not only that but help me see that I could laugh at that venomous diatribe.
Did you know I have saved that conversation and on the days I could just scream and bang my head against the wall I read it? I am still impressed I knew so many bad words
And the ones the good jewish lady knows
just joking
I am still praying for you, and loving you, and I KNOW that God has something truely amazing to do in your life
Don't you think that you can run down TWO TRACKS at the SAME TIME?
I don't know too much about FOOD ADDICTION..but do know about SELF-HATRED.
What helped ME the MOST with that is changing my MINDSET, making an effort daily to maintain WORK on my MINDSET.
I was serious as can be when I told you to REFUSE to allow yourself to say that anymore..I used to say it too, all the time, "I HATE MYSELF" but I absolutely REFUSE to allow that GARBAGE from my PAST to interfere with my PRESENT LIFE...
YOU can MAKE a DECISION to CONTROL YOUR MIND..you know, SHAKE YOUR HEAD when that thought comes to mind..ACT AS IF YOU LOVE YOURSELF..and you will soon BELIEVE IT...
Stick with me here. Let me get a little information for you to read and see if that helps. I don't disagree with you ultimately, I just am not there today. But I am working very hard. BRB
We welcome all who are interested in healing from eating and body image disorders in all forms. EAA is made up of overeaters, anorexics, bulimics, undereaters, binge eaters, grazers, exercise bulimics, etc. Most of us have negative relationships with our bodies, and our body image is often distorted. As our disease progresses, we come to measure our self worth by how we feel about our bodies. Therefore, most of us are consumed by feelings of inadequacy, desperation, and shame, since we can never measure up to our own unrealistic ideals, or those of society. Even talent, skill, education and accomplishment could not lessen our misery.
Whatever form our disease takes, we share a dangerous obsession. We are all addicts, in bondage to our own minds, oppressed by our compulsion. In EAA we find a different way of living. The only requirement for EAA membership is the desire to stop abusing food and our bodies. Because we must deal with food daily, we believe the only lasting solution to our problem is an inner transformation from working the 12 steps of EAA with the help of a sponsor.
EAA is a fellowship of people recovering from all aspects of eating addiction and body obsession. The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop abusing food and our bodies. We believe that our disease manifests itself in a variety of ways including: bingeing, purging, grazing, starving, obsession with: our bodies, weight, diet, muscular definition, etc. In our experience what, how, how much or how little you eat is irrelevant to the disease progression. What is important is that we have a warped relationship to food, and to our bodies.
Since food is but a symptom , we do not believe lasting recovery can be based on any particular plan of eating. It will only be achieved by a thorough working of the 12 steps. The honesty we develop through working the steps leads each of us to a manner of living, eating and relating to our bodies that allows us to be fully participating members of society.
Most of us suffer from self hate, and find there is little support for a healthy relationship with our bodies or with food in the wider world.
In EAA we uncover the tools to deal with both our addiction as well as the unhealthy messages we may receive about food and appearance. Our disease kills more people than any other addiction, due to its connection to various serious diseases. It handicaps many others emotionally, spiritually, and physically. We believe that for us food is a drug, our obsessions are manifestations of addiction, that our disease is a life and death issue.
Most of us try to deny it, but deep down inside we know. No matter how much or how little we eat, or what we look like to others, we feel compelled to practice self destructive behaviors with eating, dieting, exercise avoidance or compulsive exercise. These risked our health, and destroyed our self esteem, our relationships, and our lives. For us these behaviors become our drug.
An addict is a man or woman who has become trapped in a pattern of compulsive behavior from which they cannot break free alone. Few of us will seek help before the cost of our addiction becomes undeniable and unbearable. Some of us are forced to seek help by partners, friends or family members, others realize that their behavior is becoming life threatening, and after years of slow suicide, we are ready to try anything.
Only when we become willing to surrender to the recovery process, can we halt our downward spiral.
We are addicts.
In EAA, we believe we are addicts, and that like all addicts, we are powerless over our addiction. Our obsessive behaviors concerning food and our bodies are the ways we use to feel numb, comforted, high or in control.
Though we prefer to deny it, we are no different or better than other drug addicts. Our disease, may be more subtle and and it is often sanctioned by society. It is, however, a deadly addiction.
Members of our fellowship focus on staying out of our old destructive patterns. We work at developing a healthy conception of our appearance. On our own this is impossible, since many of us are full of self hate, and excuses. With the help of the fellowship we find the spiritual growth and emotional healing that facilitates these changes. In EAA the definition of clean food is an individual issue - we are individuals, and what works for some, may not work well for others.
However, in recovery we do not binge, purge, starve, or graze. We do not restrict or feast at mealtimes. We adopt a proactive approach, going to whatever lengths we must to find recovery, then we cling to it doggedly. Recovery does happen, but it doesn't happen by accident. If we want to be free from a lifetime of self destruction, we must surrender to deep internal change. With the help of our network, we define a clear, healthy bottom line set of behaviors conducive to maintaining our recovery. We share the nature of this spiritual plan with others we trust as a way of developing an honest relationship with ourselves, our eating, and with others.
Surrender doesn't come naturally to addicts, but relax, no one will tell you what you have to do. We are here to offer you the way out that we have found.
We only come to EAA when we realize that our relationship with food, and to our bodies is insane, and that without help, we would continue to destroy ourselves through our addiction. When finally we are ready to leave behind our old approach, we are able to give ourselves to the principles of recovery. We come together to offer and seek support. We find that we gain more than we ever imagine. Instead of rigid attempts to manage our addiction, we discover a life of freedom, joy and balance.
Where's the woman who encouraged me to write to her one night, speiling every cuss word I knew to help release the poison that was building up in me. And not only that but help me see that I could laugh at that venomous diatribe.
Did you know I have saved that conversation and on the days I could just scream and bang my head against the wall I read it? I am still impressed I knew so many bad words
And the ones the good jewish lady knows
I am very proud of my GRACIOUS ability to rank up there with the foulest of mouths. I love it when I have free rein to let my mouth run. But, not so lady like is it. However, its a cheap thrill and I always feel better.
I am doing ok. G-d is telling me its time to deal with my biggest ADDICTION. Because once that is deal with then G-d can do some deep healing work with me.
I feel like I hang onto WH because I don't believe that there would ever be anyone else who would love me. Now come on, even I know that's a stretch, but i actually believe it. He is the one and only person.
I need to face ALL my demons of ADDICTIONS, then G-d can safely bring my h home.
It sounds like you are doing pretty good. I'm so happy for you.
G-d is telling me its time to deal with my biggest ADDICTION.
You know what you need to do, Queenie. I fully support you doing EAA.
But like I said before, you CAN add in other stuff that won't conflict with that process..like using POSITIVE SELF-TALK DAILY...
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I feel like I hang onto WH because I don't believe that there would ever be anyone else who would love me. Now come on, even I know that's a stretch, but i actually believe it. He is the one and only person.
You dont' HAVE to BELIEVE this. You can CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE THIS. Journal how come this is a LIE!! It doesn't make LOGICAL SENSE!!
Nice to see you here. You have so been busy and are amazing. I'm so inspired by your walk and strength. I havent helped enough, in fact I think I have avoided being on here because I wasn't getting what I wanted. But that's being selfish and part of my disease. You are right I have grown in spirit, strength, understanding in spite of not having the one thing I want, my husband home.
Not sure why G-d keeps saying no, but that message continues to come loud and clear. He knows something that I don't or am unable to admit to myself. Fortunately G-d has given me a new addiction to occupy my time with and to heal from.
Thanks Mimi, you know how I NEED you and ADMIRE you.
I have never had ANOTHER relationship with any other man, but my husband. WH didn't just leave me, he threw me away like garbage. He has made basically no attempt to recover or even entertain coming home. As hard as I try, I just keep thinking that it's me and who would want someone where the husband left her for a crack addict with hep c. I don't want to go there, I just am saying this is where it starts for me.
As hard as I try, I just keep thinking that it's me and who would want someone where the husband left her for a crack addict with hep c. I don't want to go there, I just am saying this is where it starts for me.
Yes it is a DJ. What I fail to understand though, is that despite how far you have come, you choose to continue to fall back to seeing yourself that way. Why?
You are letting your WH's actions define who YOU are. That has to stop. YOU are the one who should be defining who you are. You and no one else but God. And He sees you as infinitely beautiful and deserving of love in every way. He loves you with absolutely no reservation. Just as you need to start loving yourself.
See yourself the way God sees you. Love youself the way God loves you.
WH's abandonment of you is horrific. I know because I also felt like a piece of worthless garbage for a while. But that is not WHO we are. That is how they treated us because of who THEY are. It says more about them than it will ever say about US.
What about this thought - instead of YOUR version of what happened, people look at your sitch and say, "WOW, what a loser Queenie's WH is. What kind of jerk would be so stupid as to throw her away for a skanky crack ho?!! Queenie is SO much better than that!"
Change your perspective. Change your life. It works. You've done it before. Do it again.
Why? Because right now my food is driving me. And it's out of control and when it's out of control that old self-hatred comes out.
However, I am fighting by surrendering and asking G-d for help. So it can only get better. I had thought my food had changed, but I guess I was wrong. I'm not beating myself up, I'm just
Bugs you are so right, there isn't ONE person in real life who looks at this any other way that WH is an idiot, etc. Just like you say.
What I have simply not be willing to go to is that for years my H/WH has abused me emotionally. He is by far passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling. I know Mimi, you don't like to label people, but that's who he became years ago. He admitted, he just couldn't stop. He was so injured as a child. He loved me, I have no doubt, but he hurts so deeply inside and has always been self-destructive. We aren't talking just about a WH who is in a fog, but a man who has lived in a dry drunk for years, has no recovery, is in an active addiction and hurt all those people around him.
I am not secure enough, love myself enough to say wait a minute, I am better than this and I deserve better, so I let it happen and it destroyed me before and after the A. I carried around so much guilt because my disease was in effect and I was NOT the wife that I could have been. I let WH action, rejections, hurts drive me and I became someone who I wasn't and that is why I hate myself. If I had been stronger...etc.
For some reason, you seem afraid to REALLY focus on WORKING ON YOURSELF. Yes, Queenie, you have come a long ways and we are real proud of you..but, IMO, you continue to be way too focused still on him..despite knowing how SICK he is.
Why would you WANT a person as SICK as he TODAY?
What would you have?
If he showed up today, the SICK MAN that he is NOW, what would you have?
What I have simply not be willing to go to is that for years my H/WH has abused me emotionally. He is by far passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling. I know Mimi, you don't like to label people, but that's who he became years ago. He admitted, he just couldn't stop. He was so injured as a child. He loved me, I have no doubt, but he hurts so deeply inside and has always been self-destructive. We aren't talking just about a WH who is in a fog, but a man who has lived in a dry drunk for years, has no recovery, is in an active addiction and hurt all those people around him.
NONE OF THIS MATTERS ONE BIT..This is HIS STUFF..HIS JUNK..NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS..OUT OF YOUR CONTROL!!
I understand what u are going through, I have been there too. I have gained about 30 lbs in the last 8 months. But there was a book that I read and it changed my life, I am now writing a little bit of it I hope it helps you too. The title of the book is "His Princess". These are letters from God to his princess. (YOU)
My princess,
Your body is so special to Me. I carefully created every part of you. You truly are fearfully and wonderfully made. I made you in My image, and I love you. I don’t want you to waste another day worrying about what you don’t look like or how much you weigh. Come to Me in the morning and let Me be your mirror. Let Me design your diet; let Me be the strength you need to become your healthiest. You don’t have to do this alone; I am here to give you all you need to be free and at peace with yourself.
Queenie, I wish you would try something. Get yourself a notebook or journal, and every day write down at least three things that are good in your life. It could be that you reached a goal, or something you like about yourself, or a way God has blessed you, or the positive way you handled a certain situation, or even a particularly beautiful sunset you were able to witness. Makes no difference how great or small, they just have to be positive things that make you feel good about your life and yourself.
I firmly believe that the more attention we give the positive or the negative, the bigger it becomes in our lives. If our focus is on what is wrong or missing, it is only natural that we become overwhelmed. When we focus on what is right and how we have been blessed, then we can live gratefully.
Like the old adage says: If we fill our hours with regrets over the failures of yesterday, and with worries over the problems of tomorrow, we have no today in which to be thankful.
I emailed a moderator and asked them to change it for me.
Hi Angie, how are you? I think what you wrote is awesome, if I can afford it this month I might just get that book. I could really use it.
Hey Exodus, how are you girl. I think you have a wonderful suggestion. It's an excuse, but I'm tired tonight, I think that will be one thing I start tomorrow.
I love you too LIL, I'm happy that you are moving threads, but sad I won't see you on here. Keep us informed every so often ok. Know our prayers and love for you will always be there.
Thanks Hope, I like it too. And it was time.
Ah TST,
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Still a Skinsgal!
Keep smilin'
Always a Skinsgal, always!!!!!!!!!!
Say hi to that beautiful wife and tell her I sent her mail last week which she can respond to anytime.
For someone who hates herself you sure do have allot of fight in you.
I remember you mentioning something about dry drunk woman who felt like she messed things up, I think you were describing yourself... I don't know this woman... I know the skinsgal that blossomed into a queen that everybody that comes acrross her can't help but to be drawn to her... This is the woman I come to know and love.
No more hate talk OK... Don't think for a minute that Mimi can't find you...I think she has special powers...so watch before she comes and give you a real 2x4...LOL
Yesterday and today are part of a very important Jewish Holiday I've come to understand from another one of my IRL friends.
As a matter of fact, last night and through tonight were the holiest days of the year for a Jew.
Yom Kippur - Yom Kippur (Hebrew: יוֹם כִּפּוּר‎, IPA: [ˈjɔm kiˈpur]), also known in English as the Day of Atonement, is the most solemn and important of the Jewish holidays. Its central themes are atonement and repentance. Jews traditionally observe this holy day with a 25-hour period of fasting and intensive prayer, often spending most of the day in synagogue services.
Yom Kippur is the tenth and final day of the Ten Days of Repentance which begin with Rosh Hashanah. According to Jewish tradition, God inscribes each person's fate for the coming year into a "book" on Rosh Hashanah and waits until Yom Kippur to "seal" the verdict. During the Ten Days of Repentance, a Jew tries to amend his behavior and seek forgiveness for wrongs done against God (bein adam leMakom) and against his fellow man (bein adam lechavero). The evening and day of Yom Kippur are set aside for public and private petitions and confessions of guilt (Vidui). At the end of Yom Kippur, one considers himself absolved by God.
The Yom Kippur prayer service includes several unique aspects. One is the actual number of prayer services. Unlike a regular day, which has three prayer services (Ma'ariv, the evening prayer; Shacharit, the morning prayer; and Mincha, the afternoon prayer), or a Shabbat or Yom Tov, which have four prayer services (Ma'ariv; Shacharit; Musaf, the additional prayer; and Mincha), Yom Kippur has five prayer services (Ma'ariv; Shacharit; Musaf; Mincha; and Ne'ilah, the closing prayer). The prayer services also include a public confession of sins (Vidui) and a reenactment of the special Yom Kippur avodah (service) of the Kohen Gadol in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
I made it through the fast. Actually I started fasting at 3:00pm yesterday and didn't eat until 6:15 tonight with NO water or food.
Yes, Cinderella, I printed it out for work not home and my boss made me throw it out. I'll have to see if I have it somewhere else.
I got fired as someone's sponsor yesterday. I honestly wasn't doing a good job and need to make amends to her. I don't have it today, but I have to dig deeper and be a better person of service to G-d so it helped to be in services today to ask for forgiveness for my sins.
Hi Luna, Chai, thank you for checking up and supporting me. I am working hard at growing and changing.
Hey TMTS,
I miss you alot. ALOT. In fact I wish you were around more, but I understanding. You are right, there is a lot of fight in me. I get down, spiral to sadness, and want to quit, but somewhere inside G-d reaches me to keep moving for him.
I'm trying to stop the bad talk, but sometimes its just all I have in me.
G-d is patient with me and keeps working his love to help me see what he sees. Because I don't yet.
Ten days from Rosh Hashanah (new year) till Yom Kippur known as the Days of Awe are reflection, repentance and atonement for sins of the past year.
God writes his "verdict" concerning each person in a book on Rosh Hashanah. That verdict is sealed after Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur is the person's last chance to make amends where they need to be made.
Mark
I guess all the other stuff I did before posting this really did take too long...
Queenie already answered before I got it posted...
Ok, please forgive me for dropping and venting and yes Mimi I am ready for you.
I just got a phone call from YS, evidently WH is short on lacrosse players for a tournament next weekend and asked YS if he would like to play with him, he would pay for his entrance fee.
He told WS to ask for my permission. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would he do that, he hasn't shown one ounce of caring what I think since this started, why would he have YS involve me?
Last week he was around being the "good" birthday parent to the one he hasnt' contacted in over 9 months and now this.
Not to mention, crack ho will probably be there and he will finally be around her. UGH...
Why did he have to have YS ask me. And just invite him?
You are so right. And thank you for the reminder Cinders.
Ok Mimi, do you just have this alarm that goes off in your world saying Queenie's at it again, putting her mind where it should NOT be. :RollieEyes:
You are right, it's absolutely wonderful for my son, although YS told me tonight he isn't allowed to play. What actually was nice to see was that my hurt didn't last but a few minutes, but there was some anger inside of me. And when I spoke to my sponsor about it, my anger came out again.
Not the fact that I reacted to the WH, but that I got angry. Anger is the one emotion I haven't allowed out and I think it's one of the last pieces to my healing. I have a RIGHT to be angry at WH for what he has done. And I have taken it all on my shoulders, taken his crap because I Plan A'd him, etc.
I'm not about to unleash that anger anyway but acknowledge it and ask G-d to help me walk through the next part of my healing journey. Because that's what its become for me. A journey to healing and just simply SURVIVING AN AFFAIR....
to you all, but to ME as well, because I am learning to LOVE ME.... and be GOOD to me....
I've been thinking of you since YOUR team is playing MY team...though truth be known, I AM rooting for the 'Skins myself cuz I don't like Haslett and I don't want him to end up the coach next season,,,,but that is a WHOLE nother issue. Anyway, haven't been around lately since my puter is broken, but just wanted to say "hey"...and of course, to say I love ya too.....
Da Bears went ahead on a TD and PAT with 11 seconds to play. The kickoff resulted in the Falcons with the ball on their own side of midfield. Then after having missed a field goal on the previous possession which allowed the Bears to get the go ahead TD and PAT, the Falcons completed a pass to inside the Bears 30 and the receiver got out of bounds with 1 second on the clock. The kick was good and the Bears went from heroes to zeros in one second flat...
I feel for ya girl. Heck, and the Rams are my team........ughhhh...
Oh, and recovery is going okay. Its still hard. But we are working through it just the same. We both want this to work, we just have SOOOOOO much to work on. But WS is the love of my life. Even on the days I think I don't want this any more, I really just can't picture my life without him. I know I could do and that I would survive, BUT I would much rather have him.....
Still thinking of you always honey....keep you chin up deary....and about that loving yourself stuff, well, its still hard for me too.....
I didn't want to think of my life without my H either. I fought it for so long. But he doesn't want me. He threw me away and has NOTHING to do with me.
I am alive, I need to live and I don't want to live alone. I am losing hope he will come home and I am getting closer to moving on and just not caring anymore.
Hopefully I don't give up too soon, but it's happening. It really is.
I'm happy for you. Maybe it's just not G-d's will for me and my M. Maybe I made too many mistakes and WH has found the love of his life.
Maybe loving myself means letting go, getting divorced and finding someone else who doesn't have the baggage my M has.
Hopefully I don't give up too soon, but it's happening. It really is.
(((((Queenie)))),
Honey, its been 2 1/2 yrs......that is not too soon. Yes, you may have only been on here for a shorter time, but you have been doing this for a long time.
and as far as too many mistakes, well, we all did, but that doesn't give the WS the right to do what they have done.
And as far as loving yourself, you are doing that. You are taking such good care of yourself and your kiddies, your friends and your job. Don't sell yourself short.
And as far as your H finding the love of his life...( )...nope, you know that ain't true. I ain't buying that lie today and neither are you. You know the work that goes into a marriage and love, and your H doesn't have what it takes to do that......he is blinded by his own selfishness and addiction.
As far as what it takes to love yourself, that is a hard pill to swallow. But you are learning....one day at a time.....
How am I loving myself. Well, lucky me caught a great cold and it would be loving to have stayed home and rested, but not to in my world of reality.
My children are struggling it seems again and taking their anger, frustration, etc out in their world. I understand there is nothing I can do for the older two, my YS is still in high school, his grades are awful and he is bragging on how he threatened a teacher. His passive-agressive tendencies seem to be reeling their ugly head again, so I have contacted the teachers and asked for their input on how he is doing. He is getting A, D, A, D, C+, then F. He is my smartest one, he is the one who has contact with WH by email and he is the one who is most like him. He simply shuts down and takes his anger out secretly and in a teenage boy way. UGH....
The courts and A are not being helpful with respect to WH paying me all the money he is supposed to and that's frustrating. So am I loving myself.
I am meeting with my sponsor tonight regarding my food and hopefully I will be able to get a handle on that. I'm trying to just take each day slowly and not look at myself in the mirror, but trust that one day I will love myself because it's something that G-d clearly needs me to work on.
Got here Monday night, worked in the yard all day yesterday, went fishing at the crack of dawn this morning and it's been raining since about 8:30. It was 81 Monday and today it's 53. Tomorrow is supposed to be colder with frost tomorrow night.
My wife is joining me tomorrow night or Friday and we'll get a little UA time in. We always take long walks and shoot lots of pictures of the fall colors around this time of year.
The property here is a mix of oak savanah and prairie with a few stands of white pine and as the oaks, elms and redbuds change colors the contrast is pretty amazing...
I was at home yesterday with time to log on and check in, wouldn't you know this site would be down most of the day so I haven't had time to check in on you.
If you are still around, please tell me how you are doing?
Well, it's another Saturday night, I've been out and about all day long and I'm at home. I just bought crap food and ate it all. My food is poisoning me. I'm trying to clean up my food, but I have no desire.
I'm losing my fight to care, I'm losing my fight to keep going. My YS took my debit card, spent money on it and somehow someone else got it and spent on it. Problem was there was no money in my account and so I have a couple hundred in bank charges, how special.
Then I opened up my mail and my car is about to be repossessed because I am behind in my car payment. I'm behind because WH isn't giving me the money he agreed to. And I have had drs, dentist, ortho, gas, food, etc bills and I can't get caught up. I'm not sure what's going to happen. I have asked for help from my trust, but that might not be a choice.
Time is moving slowly again and I just want to put the pain, feelings away and not deal with them. Whose up for some laughter tonight?
I'm here and thinking about you. I am so sorry that this is happening to you. Can't they garnish his wages or something to get you the money that you need? How about OS, can he help in some way since he lives with you? What is the trust about? Why is that not an option?
We can be here for each other tonight. WH's wages are being garnished, but it took almost 2 months for that to happen and he was 1500.00 in the rear. They will only garnish a certain percentage of his paycheck and I don't know how he is getting paid nowadays as I am not getting the back money or the full amount of what the state said for him to pay.
He isn't paying one dime for OS because the state won't garnish because he is over 18 and graduated. I wonder if it adds up?
OS, helps out where he can. He has always been good with respect to that.
My trust is something that is for my retirement. My cousin told him to give me an accounting and he will see if he can help. I hope so.
How are you? Our girl Smartie's world has been quite interesting, wouldn't you say?
I realized also yesterday that mom mother has been dead 10 years this past Thursday. Ten years, so much has happened. She was with us when we renewed our vows 10 years ago, she died in our house, we took care of her as a family. I miss my mom, dad, grandparents, anyone who is family. :RollieEyes:
This past Tuesday was 17 months from D-day, and for the first time I didn't realize it until afterwards. And yesterday, was 7 months in Plan B. Too many dates of memories.
I swear, Mimi, you have some alarm that goes off at your house when I post, especially when it's destructive.
I truly wish I could explain, but I can't. All I can say is I am trying and working on it. I seem to be grieving more and more in many ways, and I just simply don't want to.
I have so many emotions, feelings, going on inside I can't fight all 24 hours a day. I wish I could give up food entirely. Yes of course I know it's destructive, but right now this is a battle bite by bite for me.
I'm not giving up, but I think that me being honest on here might help me and someone else. I can't imagine I am the only one who is a food addict and struggles with food. It's an unhealthy relationship for sure, I'm surrendering as best as I can, but then my instinct to control takes over.
I have no control, and you know my struggles with that, it seems that I am fighting with the last one, food. Stupid, absolutely. When I went to my EAA meeting on Wednesday I realized that I had been saying at meetings I was living in a dry drunk for 15 some odd years. What I realized as I was listening to the others in the room, I was in my food addiction. And my life had become completely unmanageable. I met with my sponsor and this week we are going to start working on the steps.
Please know I'm trying, I'm fighting, I'm just losing it today. Thanks goodness I'll be in bed soon.
I hope that you will get the money soon. Gee, I wonder what your WH is doing with all of his money :RollieEyes: It just doesn't sound good. What is the status of your LSA or D? Not sure where you are in that.
I don't know what is happening with Smartie. I wanted to call her, but have been busy all week. It sounds like I had better give her a call and get the scoop.
Nothing new on my end. I signed the paperwork for support from WH. He is doing so much lying now. Says he didn't know about this, about that, blah blah blah. Claims he didn't know we had a second mortgage on our house. He must be a freaking idiot then, because he wrote a check for it every month during the year that he paid bills. Then he says he didn't know we had a mutual fund that I liquidated to pay some bills. We only had it for 25 years, Duh. And it was part of the tax paperwork that he signed for 25 years. See what I mean by the lying? He is not building any credibility, that's for sure.
My new favorite line is "if you think you know your spouse - divorce them." You sure find out that you didn't really know them after all.
Anyway, he now has a local address and DD says that OP has another BF. I'm just too close to not caring anymore.
DD is another story. Still using. I've gotten to the point where I don't even talk to her. There is nothing I can do for her anymore. The baby is due in Jan, and I have decided that I can't raise a child alone at my age. I'm like you - just managing to scrape by now. The whole thing breaks my heart, but it is what it is.
Hang in there Queenie. I'm here and so are others to help you through. This place has saved me many nights, and it will save you too.
I'm so sorry that life is hard for you. We really are learning something, I just don't know what. Well that's a lie. We are learning to rely on G-d to keep walking us through. I haven't spent much time alone with him and I find myself not as peaceful as I was.
I would imagine I am legally separated, the court ordered him to pay me money, but he isn't. I don't know if he is in contempt, if he would owe me the money one day or what. I don't have the energy to fight him. Caught between two places.
Do you know how the baby is? I am more worried about the baby than anything else.
As for you WH, he sounds like mine, completely out of touch with reality. I could lie and say I don't understand it, but that would be stupid. I know how you can get to a place to lie to yourself and believe it. It's just hard for us because we are on the receiving end of the crap.
Has your WH filed for a D? It's strange that you aren't sure what is going on. I would think that he would be in contempt if he was ordered to pay but didn't. Don't give up on it Queenie. Reach deep down for the energy to fight this. What you don't get, the crack ho is getting. DO NOT GIVE UP!!!! She deserves none of it, but you are the one who has to prevent her from getting what is rightfully yours. This is your mission starting TOMORROW. Conquer one thing at a time, but this should be your highest priority right now because you need this to survive. You need it to support you and your children. Don't let them down, but just as important, don't let yourself down.
To answer your question about the baby? DD lies so much, I don't know the truth about anything. I'm told that if the baby is born addicted, they will take it immediately. The father's parents said they would help, but they want a paternity test first. The alleged father will not sign the birth cert or give any DNA samples. If he is the father, he doesn't want to be thrown in jail for not giving child support. He's in jail more than out anyway, so he knows that he can't support the child. It's the biggest mess I've ever seen.
I'll be around tomorrow evening. I'm going to a fashion show tomorrow afternoon, but will be back by 6ish. Perhaps we can talk.
Take care of yourself, and get a major attitude adjustment. We are going to join forces and fight this thing. Get the support due you, then we'll work on the food issue. One thing at a time.
I don't have the resources to fight him. I have no clue why he hasn't filed for D. Like you, I am in a total dark Plan B so I have no idea what's going on with him.
I'm sure tomorrow I'll find the strength, just not today. I'm tired, overwhelmed and just want to lay down and surrender. I just want the pain to go away and the sadness to be gone. I want to know how it ends, when it ends and if I survive because I'm just plain tired.
I've tried building a new life and the worst possible addiction shows its ugly head for me to tackle. I could use a little prayer right now. I'm losing....
I know you prolly feel you can't be fagged with the drama and stuff of chasing your WH up for money, but my friend, its not fair to your kids or you that he gets a nice life and leaves you all in a tight spot. He helped make those kids, he should be helping make their lives better, not spending it on a cheap two bit ***********.
If you think your avioding making him upset or something, well don't. I know you love the H bit, but WH deserves everything thats coming to him.
I'm in Plan B, there's no contact, there's nothing I can do. He is not following the court, its too early to have him in contempt. My only option is to D him and I'm trying not to.
He's winning. He's happy with his love of life, no kids, no problems, playing sports, happy with no responsibilities, emailing his son and I get the angry children. I live the daily battle of holding the children accountable to living and moving forward.
I'm alone at night and I'm just beaten. I'll be better tomorrow. I just am having one of those nights.
I didn't sleep well again last night. In fact the nightmares or waking up throughout the night is happening again. I think that plays into my struggles. I'm tired, my body is in pain from the lack of sleep and crappy bed. I was telling someone that I probably have slept well maybe a total of 30 days since he left. I hate sleeping alone. I talk to G-d before and normally when I wake up, but I would love to have someone answer back.
I don't think any of us sleep well after a trauma like this. I also have a bad mattress, but can't think about changing it now. The funny thing is that it is an expensive mattress that I got 5 years ago to help my neck problem, but it only makes it worse. I sleep better in hotels that have the plain old Sertas. Oh well....
This whole ordeal leaves us totally worn out. Queenie, you need to take charge of this thing and get an attitude adjustment. I suspect that you are starting to wallow in self pity. This is not a good thing. I know that this is not easy, but if you surrender to it worse things are going to happen to you.
I think you are at the 6 month mark of Plan B, right? I remember that being the hard part for me too. Reality set in on me right about then, and it was hard to digest it.
Let us help you with a plan to keep moving ahead. You have no choice. What are you going to do if you just give up? Lose your job? Lay in bed all day or lay around the apartment doing nothing? Get evicted with no place to go? Queenie, you have a YS that needs you to help him get through school and become a productive citizen. He deserves that. Don't abandon him like WH abandoned you. Do you want him to feel like you feel now? NO.
If you want to call me, I will be home all evening.
I'm so proud of you Chai for calling me on my stuff. You're right I am just wallowing in self-pity. Of course I won't abandon my YS like WH. I'm frustrated because WH has the most contact with son and I feel like he just gets to live this life of fantasy.
Ah, me trying to control what everyone is doing instead of letting G-d do what he does best, be himself and lead us each in our own journeys.
I am such a control freak in the scariest of ways. I don't admit it, but it's so obvious. WH needs to come home so he will be happier, WH can't have contact with YS because they he will influence YS, etc. My actions when really looked at honestly make me sick.
What does it say truly, that I'm not trusting G-d. That I think I can do things better or my plans are better than his and that's such a no no for me. My way screwed it up, now it's time to recommit to G-d and let him have his plans, whatever they may be.
Let Go and Let G-d. I need to pray for more willingness in this area as well as my food.
I'm sitting around all day until I have to meet my AA sponsee, then go to a meeting. I haven't been doing that as much and I think I am a little off because of it.
Queenie - Have you ever thought about getting a tummy staple or ring? I have several friends in my Bible study who got them and are doing great. Forget if you have insurance or not, but it is usually covered.
Of course, you need to learn to eat differently. But I have seem amazing results.
I have to learn new ways. I'm fighting as hard as I can. I know you think it's a mind set, and maybe to some extent it is.
I'm just saying I'm not doing it on purpose. I wish I could explain if for you to understand, but I can't. You aren't an addict, you don't understand how I could do what I am doing.
I have several friends who did it. The problem is that once you get too overweight, you practically have to starve yourself. I have another friend who did that, and she did lose the weight over 7 years.
Check with your insurance. Sometimes they will look at it as a therpeutic thing.
And you WILL have to change the way you eat. The best programs are where they teach you to eat better.
One lady in my Bible group went from a size 28 to a 10. Both her daughters were heavy (herditary) and they went from a 24 to a size 4.
About the CS stuff...contact the court clerk where the judgment was filed and let them know he isn't paying. They will either file with the Support Enforcement Office or tell you how to do it. You don't need to get a lawyer since the LSA was signed by a judge.
Our state is BIG on support enforcement and have the big offices to prove it. :RollieEyes:
If he is getting paid somewhere that has his social security number, then the money will come directly from them to that agency and then to you.
Old behaviors, old thoughts, etc are so hard to change.
I have worked through so much. I have kept fighting even when I didn't believe I could or wanted to. But the depth of self hatred for me runs deep. I'm sure most people could NOT believe it or even understand it, just change your thought.
Mimi, I have been abused emotionally for years, almost back from my parents. I'm not calling myself a victim, I'm just telling you the old tapes are just playing loud more recently because it's all I know.
I'm working on new ones, I'm praying to G-d for help, but it's a battle that I am in right now. I believe I will get through it, but if I keep the hate in my head, then it will destroy me so I post here because it's a safe place for me.
I don't know if that would even make more sense, I'm just being honest.
Ah, me trying to control what everyone is doing instead of letting G-d do what he does best, be himself and lead us each in our own journeys.
I am such a control freak in the scariest of ways. I don't admit it, but it's so obvious. WH needs to come home so he will be happier, WH can't have contact with YS because they he will influence YS, etc. My actions when really looked at honestly make me sick.
What does it say truly, that I'm not trusting G-d. That I think I can do things better or my plans are better than his and that's such a no no for me. My way screwed it up, now it's time to recommit to G-d and let him have his plans, whatever they may be.
Let Go and Let G-d. I
This is the PLACE you keep coming back to..
You HAVE admitted being a CONTROL FREAK in the PAST.
When I am hungry, angry, lonely and tired, I can only fight so long before I just give in. I have been struggling financially since July, I have made extra money, but it's not enough to make a difference. It has been the beginning of school, which is always overwhelming, busy and my boss has been on my butt to change to be more like her. She is anal, concrete sequential. I am abstract the opposite.
I have been a catered to spoiled brate most of my life and learning to take care of myself is HARD for me. It's not anything I have ever known. I am NOT assertive, I hate confrontation. Etc.
Truth be told, I'm exhausted. Mentally, physically, emotionally, but that's when I am most dangerous... So I have to keep fighting by surrendering if that make any sense at all.
Isn't it interesting that you say that you are a CONTROL FREAK but you want to CONTROL OTHERS but not yourself?
Yes it is. Though my food is the one way I control myself. If it's good then I think I am a good person. If its destructive then look at me, I'm a piece of crap and deserve all that's bad in life.
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I'm a CONTROL FREAK, too, but I'm very "ANAL"..don't like that description..let's call it "OCDish"...
Mimi, I have been abused emotionally for years, almost back from my parents. I'm not calling myself a victim, I'm just telling you the old tapes are just playing loud more recently because it's all I know.
I was also EMOTIONALLY ABUSED throughout my childhood..except I haven't suffered from ADDICTIONS..except for to cigarettes...and I stopped smoking 16 years ago...
What helped me was PSYCHOTHERAPY...it took YEARS...
I went back to my SAME THERAPIST once discovering my H's affair and realized that I was able to COPE with the INFIDELITY better because he had already helped me with alot of my earlier issues. During the infidelity, he was mainly offering SUPPORT and reminding me to use the SKILLS that I had gained in therapy. The therapy really was the basis of me developing self-esteem.
I really think you need yourself a GREAT THERAPIST!!
I agree...
I'm not laughing about it either or being coy. I do agree. To the average person, what WH has done in the manner he has done it would have pushed the average person to say enough, I'm done.
Not me. I keep on taking it and allowing for it to still be a possibility while I continually think that I could have stopped his behavior.
Any sane person would know they haven't. I've come far... Give me that. I'm still fighting, but I agree....
You might want to find a NEW JOB...cause YES, I was able to use my HEALTH INSURANCE...BOTH TIMES...kill two birds with one stone..get away from that AWFUL BOSS who certainly isn't helping matters...
You might want to find a NEW JOB...cause YES, I was able to use my HEALTH INSURANCE...BOTH TIMES...kill two birds with one stone..get away from that AWFUL BOSS who certainly isn't helping matters...
I certainly could look into this and see what I come up with.
I make over 17.00 bucks and hour, none of my health insurance is taken out of my check and minus the therapy, it's actually very good. I get a wapping bonus check at the end of June that helps me tremendously and I am home for my children almost at the same time.
My gas is almost nil as my commute is 6/10 of a mile from work. So I need to take some of that into consideration, but you might just be right and I can certainly ask G-d for his input.
I'm not sure if your contract at work has this, but lots of school districts offer an Employee Assistance Program where you can get a certain number of counseling appointments for free. Mine covers 5.
Gosh, I'm full of helpful information tonight. What's up with that?
My food has been clean this morning which is very good. I emailed my food plan to my sponsor for the day, which is another positive step for me.
This is the lastest news that I have received. I'm not upset, just absolutely stunned that he continues to do this.
speaking of that .. I saw your crack addict.. she is heavy very ugly.. pot marked face.. she was wearing black slacks and high heels that hid her mid belly fat.. along with a sweater that showed off about 4 inches of her fat stomach at a lacrosse tournament yesterday..not a pretty sight
yes very unbelievable she had long stingy hair and not a friendly face at all.. know just walked by her and was trying to remember everything about her so that I could tell you today... I know WH saw us but didnt say anything.. not lovey dovey at all.. I just dont get the whole high heel thing on the lacrosse turf...
we gave her the stare down for ya
oh no she was sitting all by herself on the bench.. no one around her
she looked away and wasn't very friendly.. she was just plain ugly
I am going through something with the lacrosse board that has me in knots, total knots. Lacrosse has been something that has brought me such enjoyment in life and it's a part of my children's life. I have been on the board for so long. I heard that WH knows about the trouble going on and asked someone about it. He said since he has all this time on his hands he should become a coach. My world, why does he need to be in my world?
Just read the last few pages of your thread...and want to offer my support. You are getting good advice already and you seem to know what you need to do.
Sounds like you are faced a bit with the challenge I also struggle with sometimes, how to get from KNOWING to the DOING.
The only answer that keeps coming up for me is....taking it ONE DAY AT A TIME.
Ok, so this is how my day has been going, hopefully all of you are having a WAY much better day.
Turns out if I could come up with 800.00 I can hopefully stop my car being repossessed, and maybe even deffered for one or two months. Thank you G-d.
I tried to go to a friend who offered once to help me out financially. She said yes, but then said no. So I was left scrambling for cash. I went to the bank, that was a journey in itself, I did break down crying, but what's worse I found out my son has spent all his college money. UGH...
So after having to come back to work, get another check, back to the bank get cash, went to store to send western gram I was 2.99. I have NO MONEY.... And I started crying AGAIN. One of the store clerks lent me the 2.99 and I got the Western Gram.
I have decided to resign from lacrosse because actually I don't even know how to put it into words, but I think it's best today. G-d wants me working on ME. Cleary as I sit here and read what I am writing, that is the overwhelming message I am getting. Be a mom, take care of myself and build a new life.
So, so far so good on my food. I changed the menu of what I was eating, but have done good.
I am very grateful to G-d for keeping my food clean today at to this moment as that's all I have.
If you think h may have said that just talking out loud, don't worry about it and stay on the board if you wish. If he actually acts on it, you could then resign.
What does Queenie really want to do?
Sometimes, I think satan lets things happen to tempt and try us.
Here's the deal on the lacrosse. Queenie loves lacrosse, I love being involved.
In all honesty, tonight is when the membership will vote in a new by-laws. They are opening all the positions up effective immediately and if anyone wanted to be on the board they have 30 days to apply.
The job I am doing isn't a board position anymore so in essence they are getting rid of me.
However, by not going to the board meeting and resiging I am walking away first rather than being fired.
What does Queenie want, doesn't seem to be what is happening. i'm seeking G-d for his desires, but he is being a little quiet or the obvious is be a mom, stay to the side and take care of yourself instead of adding things to my plate.
But that's so hard for me. I really feel like I am being tempted by Satan, I just don't know what is the temptation.
I don't know Queenie. Sometimes I read your thread and I think God must have something really really big to do in your life that satan is so interested in interferring with it.
but he is being a little quiet or the obvious is be a mom, stay to the side and take care of yourself instead of adding things to my plate.
Dayenu...
Isn't that really enough?
What would Moses have become if not for his mother?
You can't help others if you don't take care of yourself.
Why did God bless Israel?
To make the nations jealous. To show the whole world what was possible if you just follow Him.
It's why He rescued the House of Jacob from slavery.
It's why he gave the Law.
It's why He kept them from harm in the wilderness for 40 years.
It was why He drove out the enemies before them.
It was why he was so slow to let them be overrun when they turned to the sins of those whom they had displaced.
It was why he let them go back into captivity and why He brought Ezra and Zerubbabel back to rebuild the Temple.
It's why He drove out the troops of Antiochus and caused a night's worth of oil to last for a week.
It was to show that He is enough, to teach us to be still and know that HE is God. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills...
And the hills as well...
Queenie, Just a suggestion here...
Though it might seem trivial, the financial situation you find yourself in is just what you need to prove your faith.
We receive not because we ask not. We get nonspecific answers because we ask nonspecific questions. You need 800 dollars, let's ask Him for that exactly.
Or ask him to replace the car with one more economically feasible maybe even free of charge.
Don't just ask Him to help, ask Him to give you specific help.
We receive not because we ask not. We get nonspecific answers because we ask nonspecific questions. You need 800 dollars, let's ask Him for that exactly.
Or ask him to replace the car with one more economically feasible maybe even free of charge.
Don't just ask Him to help, ask Him to give you specific help.
I'm in for that, is this how you would like me to direct my prayers??
I was taught in AA to not ask for anything specific or for yourself. And trust me I STRUGGLED with this.
So I'm not sure what to ask for to be honest.
Your thoughts?
I'm having a very hard time with quitting. In truth, I didn't want to fire the head coach, and I voted no, but I was part of the board and I just didn't have the strength to fight.
In the end, I've lost being a part of something that was very near and dear to my heart and I am feeling it this morning. I guess I could just be a parent and just go watch for my kid, but that' not me and I'm sad over it.
Queenie - what if you quit and your h does nothing about lacrosse? Who wins?
Queenie, I know AA taught you not to ask for anything for yourself. But, the Israelites did petition G-d when needed. Did they ask for manna in the wilderness? Did they ask for help in overcoming their enemies?
I guess I could just be a parent and just go watch for my kid, but that' not me and I'm sad over it.
I can't understand THIS, Queenie. It's not YOU just to be a PARENT? What's BEST for your KID? I hope I'm wrong in hearing you say it's all about YOU.
For ME, it would be MOST IMPORTANT to be there for MY KID.
I'm not sure if I will be able to explain this accurately so give me some space here.
I volunteer for lacrosse because it helps me pay for my children. It helps me to be involved in their lives through being on the field with them, knowing their friends, etc.
Part of being Jewish is this acceptance of responsibility or called Tikkum Olam, repair the world. And so I give of myself to others for that purpose.
When I am involved in lacrosse I feel like I am making a difference in my children's lives. That's what I mean.
sorry I haven't been around much and am behind with your thread. It sounds like you are really struggling, but let me encourage you to trust that it will all work out. Just because we can't see HOW, doesn't mean that it won't.
I do want to comment on the lacrosse situation. When you first posted about it you said
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Be a mom, take care of myself and build a new life.
Then you talked about how anyone who WANTED to could apply for a position need only apply. Instead you didn't even go to the meeting? Instead you go down the path saying that you quit before you got fired? What is that? Am I really missing something here? Because if ALL of the positions were opened up, and a re-organization of the entire situation is in progess, I don't see how this is about YOU specifically.
I can't buy your being sad when you didn't make much of an effort to stay involved. You had the opportunity to do so but chose not to. Nothing wrong with that. But don't make a choice and then cry foul afterwards. You are better than that!!
Unless I've missed something I have to tell you to get off that pitty party train. To quote yourself -
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Be a mom, take care of myself and build a new life.
I'll remind you again to step back and look at where you've been. Ups and downs,,,,hills & valleys, , but you have a strength that you CAN use when you chose to use it.
My children played sports for YEARS and YEARS..traveling, college...WE WENT TO ALMOST ALL OF THE GAMES..that's what mattered to THEM...that WE were THERE...
They're grown now...don't play sports at all..which I find weird..prolly got burned out...
They will tell you, though, what matters is that I WAS ALWAYS THERE ROOTING THEM ON!!
Then you talked about how anyone who WANTED to could apply for a position need only apply. Instead you didn't even go to the meeting? Instead you go down the path saying that you quit before you got fired? What is that? Am I really missing something here? Because if ALL of the positions were opened up, and a re-organization of the entire situation is in progess, I don't see how this is about YOU specifically.
Oh NO, if I gave that impression, I'm sorry. This isn't about ME alone. It's about a board that looked at the direction the program was going and trying to do something right that just went haywire. The fact that the entire board has resigned doesn't change the truth that these players are not being coached well, or the issues with safety and disrespect are a deep problem with our kids. And that's why I am taking this stand.
I attempted to right a short version, but you know what' that is not what is at play here. I found myself in a position of being caught in the middle of something that had no winning sides. The reasons calling for the resignation of the coach are VALID. But the process by which it was handled was flawed and he had enough old time backers to remember the coach he was, not who he is.
I HATE confrontation more than anything in life. Maybe none of you can understand how that can be, but it's who I am.
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I can't buy your being sad when you didn't make much of an effort to stay involved. You had the opportunity to do so but chose not to. Nothing wrong with that. But don't make a choice and then cry foul afterwards. You are better than that!!
I actually have been involved in this fight since June, I just didn't talk about it much. Because I avoided it like I do most things in my life.
I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I'm caught up in a situation that has no winning sides and I HATE IT.
IMO, it's MOST IMPORTANT for you to focus on your PERSONAL LIFE at this time, learning to LOVE YOURSELF, work on your ADDICTIONS, take care of your KIDS...
That BOARD stuff is often NUTS with people bringing issues unrelated to the BOARD..BTDT...and in the end of the day..your kids will have grown up and moved on...
It helps me to be involved in their lives through being on the field with them, knowing their friends, etc.
You don't have to be ON THE BOARD to do this...
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Part of being Jewish is this acceptance of responsibility or called Tikkum Olam, repair the world. And so I give of myself to others for that purpose.
This is part of my religion as well..this is part of being a GOOD PERSON in all religions..give of yourself in ways that are NOT HURTFUL to yourself...
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When I am involved in lacrosse I feel like I am making a difference in my children's lives.
The MOST DIFFERENCE that you will make is spending ONE ON ONE TIME with them...LISTENING to THEM..BEING THERE for THEM..NOT AT A BOARD MEETING...
It sounds like the BOARD is more about YOU..and that's OK...BUT it's not HELPFUL to YOU anymore..my opinion...
IMO, it's MOST IMPORTANT for you to focus on your PERSONAL LIFE at this time, learning to LOVE YOURSELF, work on your ADDICTIONS, take care of your KIDS...
That BOARD stuff is often NUTS with people bringing issues unrelated to the BOARD..BTDT...and in the end of the day..your kids will have grown up and moved on...
Well so say I'm exhausted would truly not describe what I am feeling right now.
I need to thank many of you for calling me on my stuff. Whether I like it or not, the truth will set me free. But this ole addict has a warped sense of truth. Not a cop out, just the way it is.
Pretty and I have been working VERY HARD this morning getting me to look at the truths about stuff in my life, especially my marriage.
While I don't want to say that it's entirely sunk in, the truth or whatever I am willing to peel away some more layers and look at my life.
There is no doubt I go into the victim or self-pity mode way to often. Part of it is my self-esteem or lack there of, but part of it is my way of controlling the truths.
I constantly find myself wanting to take the blame for not just my marriage, but alot of things in life. Boundaries, probably. Have I visited this before, you bet, but here it is again, to go deeper and hopefully peel away more and let more of G-d in.
I know that I have touched on this, but it's really time for me to stop making excuses for WH and even H. He is a hurt human being. I did everything I could in our M to make it work, but as I made progress, he didn't and in fact probably didn't want to because then he would have had to look at his ownself.
He is passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling. I know Mimi, you don't like labels, but that's who he was. He played mind games with me a great portion of our time together. I keep taking the blame as a way of controlling what could happen, meaning if I were better then he would respond and come home.
I am constantly doubting myself, in all aspects of my life because then I don't have to make a stand or two I don't have to accept that I can't control others. And when others do what I don't like or don't want them to, I am running around trying to fix it, make it better, or blame myself.
Whew.... why would any sane person in life do that. I have no clue to be honest, but I'm not stopping at just saying this is what happens. Queenie is really looking at how to stop this and just live a new life.
To accept that my H was anything less than the perfect man or the man committed to making our marriage isn't being honest with myself anymore. He gave me lip service, about life in generally, but when I look at his actions, they weren't there for whatever reason.
I'm not saying I want a D, but somehow I have to get to the truth of our marriage so that I can forgive myself and move on into a healthier place.
Indulge me right now, because I am working through, need to get this on paper and ask G-d for the next piece.
Hi Cinders, according the my lawyer and case worker at DSHS, there isn't much I can do to WH until 6 months, then he is in contempt of court and possibly facing jail time.
So I just have to somehow hang on for about 2 1/2 more months. The I can go on the attack and make him accountable.
Right now I need to trust G-d. Which interestingly was the topic at my AA meeting tonight or rather step three. Made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of G-d as I know him.
The last one who spoke said the most profound thing. I'm sure I'll butcher it, but the gist of it was, as an addict/alcholic being in control of my will or life is almost as dangerous as having the fox watch the hens. Maybe normal people don't get it, but it certainly hit home.
My mind is out to destroy me, by taking control, my will etc back from G-d is the worst and most dangerous thing I can do. I'm not trustworthy, because I don't believe in me the way G-d does. That's just today.
I'm sure no surprise to anyone else, but I obviously when I get into these self-pity modes I am not trusting G-d and taking back control. Big no no.
This too shall pass, my pitty potty, I'll find my strength, my faith, my trust and I'll get back to the business of learning and loving myself.
But its day two that my food has been clean, I'm going through withdrawals and I am giving myself a pat on the back because even though I keep falling back, I get up and ask G-d for help.
So you can bet, when the time hits, I will have that WH's sorry a$$ back in court getting the money that is agreed upon so I can take care of his children.
And OP, can just kiss my grits and enjoy her trips to the food bank.
I think what you need to do is go out and have some fun. Start dating again. Go out and find a man who will love you. Why would you even want your WH back at this stage? Why is your self-esteem so low as to think that he deserves you after everything he put you through?
You deserve better. Please stop making him the focus in your life - he doesn't deserve it. I'm only saying this for your own good. There are lots of good men out there. You really have done all you can.
You know myfamily, I think the same thing often these days.
Truth is I am still M and so dating probably isn't a good idea.
I'm learning that I deserve more, but one has to remember that this is how I have been treated for almost my entire life so I don't necessarily know any different.
You know that part in the bible where the Jews are set free but they only want to go back to Egypt because slavery is all they know.
I love my H. I just have to see if I can give G-d more time because there is a good man inside of that WH that would hang on for me and I have to just trust G-d it isn't time yet.
I have come so far in not having him be my focus, I think that the last strings are hanging on and my heart is just not wanting to cut them yet, so more grieving, more learning and understanding that this is my process and I am working through it the best I can.
As a servant of G-d with trust in my future. Remember he has plans for me, plans to prosper. I just have to keep walking in faith.
I do like the suggestion of dating though. Gotta be honest.
I was talking to the ministers where I go to church yesterday - I had a meeting there and stepped into the office to say Hi since I was the first one there for a weight watchers group. Anyway, I told one of them that one of the reasons I don't really date, though divorced, is because I have to be the mom and 70% of the dad. There isn't time for dating.
I am doing much better. I seem to be on that infamous wave that's going back out to sea and more calmer. I don't feel the need to fix things today, but just put one toe in front of the other.
My food has been good today, day three and I am very grateful to G-d. But I am getting hungry, might grab a few potato chips for snack or rice crackers....
I'm feeling better about my decision about lacrosse. I think my ego was really tied up in this, but it's just maybe time to stop, take care of me and my children and leave the rest to G-d.
Just stoppin in to spread some love Queenie.. very proud of your progress..
Oy do we walk the same paths... over and over again sometimes..
I think I'm starting to look forward to the D though.. so I -can- convince myself it's ok to date again.. there's a few prospects out there, but then you start wondering if you're capable of making good decisions again..
*sigh*
It's always something hon.. but in God's time and in His way.. we'll get to where we need to be, at just the right moment.
This goddess is not hanging out near dual exhaust. SHIVER ME TIMBERS!!! Besides, as a non-smoker, I know for a certainty that smokers stink. Literally. So do their cars, homes, clothes, pets....you name it.
I'm allergic to the stuff. Found out when I was 11 and they skin tested me to find out what my allergies were. Tobacco is one of them.
I could NEVER date anyone who smokes. My mom died of lung cancer and it wasn't pretty. Whenever anyone who smokes comes into our office you can smell it a mile a way.
I'm just grateful AA meetings are smoke free nowadays.
Actually my H hated smokers too, but I understand crack ho smokes and he even stops home and buys them. HOW GROSS.....
NAW, we were talking about what an amazing catch you would be when this is all said an done.
As for the quitting thing.. I've never been good at quitting anything, but I read this book a while back, and once I finished it, I was done.. no withdrawl.. no cravings.. nothin.
I didn't quit.. I didn't 'give it up'... I just escaped the trap.
It just makes you smell like you've already been there.
Queenie,
You brought up how the people were saved from slavery and wanted to return to it because it was all they knew...
(see Numbers 11)
But really what they wanted was the things they no longer had. It wasn't slavery they missed but the things they had given up to be free...
They missed the garlic and leeks and spices...
They remembered all the good things of the past and none of the things they once hated because they no longer had the bad things but had lost what they thought was good...
They felt this way because they were focused on what they no longer had rather than the miracles going on all around them on a daily basis. They grumbled about having to eat the same thing every day and missed the miracle of God's provision for them day by day and hour by hour.
God was in their midst and they saw only what they didn't have...
Like Jacob said when he spent the night outside of Luz and renamed the place "The House of God"...
God was in this place and I did not know...
Remember what He has already done and what He is doing...
Focus on what you have and not on what you have no longer...
Think of all you have found rather than what you have lost...
Not to threadjack here.. but I love reading your posts Mark. You have such a wonderful perspective on things, and whether you realize it or not, have been a wonderful instrument of God here, keeping many of us focused on the right things, and nudging us back onto God's path when we put a foot or two wrong.
You're certainly someone I give thanks for, and will likely continue to for a long while.
Jamesus,whats the name of the book you read? My DS18 smokes and is a real addict..he really wants to stop but battles....
Here in S.A smoking has become quite anti-social but people aren't really looked down upon.I have heard that in the states if you smoke you are seen as coming from a low-class sort of lifestyle.Is this true?My sister-in-law and her family lived in Virginia for 3 years and both her and her hubbie smoked.He was a naval attache over there.
Jamesus,whats the name of the book you read? My DS18 smokes and is a real addict..he really wants to stop but battles....
Here in S.A smoking has become quite anti-social but people aren't really looked down upon.I have heard that in the states if you smoke you are seen as coming from a low-class sort of lifestyle.Is this true?My sister-in-law and her family lived in Virginia for 3 years and both her and her hubbie smoked.He was a naval attache over there.
It's called 'The Easy Way to Stop Smoking' by Allen Carr
He also has books on drinking and eating disorders, but I've been told that they aren't nearly as effective.
Honestly this is the perfect book for the person who has tried 'everything' to quit. He doesn't beat you over the head with statistics, or berate you for smoking.. it's difficult to describe any other way than he exposes the trap of smoking for what it is, and shows you the way out.
There's no pressure, no tapering off, none of that.. as a matter of fact he instructs you to continue smoking normally while you are reading the book (which honestly can be concluded in a couple of sittings for the average reader).. and at one point in the book actually instructs you to light up to illustrate a point.
Honestly it's been amazing.. It's just like this morning, it crossed my mind after breakfast, and a particularly triggering piece of mail from my lawyer.. 'Man.. I need a cigarette about now..' and almost immediately my mind went into it's new reflex mode of saying 'No you idiot.. all you -need- to do is the dishes.. now get to work.'
It's a great book.
Maybe I should urge him to write one on 'The Easy Way to End your Adultery'..
You are so right and in fact during my prayers last night and this morning I was thinking that I need to start my gratitude list again.
It's been awhile since I appreciated what all I really do have in my life.
Three days and my food has been clean. I have lost 5 lbs. Woohoo, but I have to get it out of my mind its about the weight loss. It's about forming a healthy relationship with food.
I just found out from DD that my OS is selling drugs to make money for the household because we are so broke.
I'm not quite sure how I am going to walk through this, but I do know that I could use a little prayers to not go off half cocked.
this is what my DD wrote. "not long okay. dont hate on him okay he is just going through things and trying to find out the best way to take care of you. he feels that he is the man of the house and needs to take care of you okay, you and ys. so please dont go at him like he is totally doing something wrong problem solve this out with him okay. i love you i'm going home i will talk to you tomorrow.
If anyone has walked through this, I could use some suggestions or help right now.
Yes, I went through it and am still going through it.
Put a Stop it right now before he ends up in jail or himself an addict. Queenie, you shouldn't even have to ask for help on this - you KNOW what to do. It is a sure path to destruction for him and for you, and you know it.
The answer is soooo simple - have him get a real job. Even if he has to dip fries at McD's, it is a law abiding job. If he continues to do what he is doing, both you and he can expect many, many more bad things to happen. Guaranteed. I could list them all, but you know them.
I know the thought of the conversation you will have with OS is going to be tough. I've been thinking about it all afternoon since I read your post and have a few thought to share-I know you won't mind.
First of all, tell him you are aware that he is selling drugs and, although you understand he wants to help out because of your family's financial situation, this isn't the way to do it.
If he asks how you found out, tell him "That's not what's important right now."
If he guesses it was DD, say "She cares about you and doesn't want you to end up in jail-or worse."
So...got those bases covered.
Then, I would let him know that you understand he feels like he has to be the "man" of the family-but doing something illegal like this isn't what a man does. He needs to find some way of helping out that brings honor to your family, not the possibility of him being incarcerated and completely unable to be available for his brother.
Let him know that there is honor in working at an honest job.
But, you also need to let him know that if he continues to do this, you can't have him in the house because it puts you and YS at risk.
I knew Chai you have been through this over and over again. It breaks my heart that our children get caught up in this stuff, but I also know that they are silly and make bad choices.
You can bet there is ZERO TOLERANCE for sellings, using etc or drugs in my home. I am a drug addict, my sobriety is on the line.
JT, having said that I asked him point bank. He said he isn't doing it. There is no way I can prove it as to be honest I am not seeing the benefits of money. However, I left it be absolutely clear that I had my eye open, my ears glued and that if I found out he was selling drugs, that he would have to leave my home, leave the car and find somewhere else to live.
I thanked him for trying to be the man and take care of the family, but I explained that we were doing ok, we still had a roof over our head, food in our stomach and for the most part doing ok. I explained that he is taking a huge risk of getting us thrown out of the apt, and that I could lose his brother to his father if he wasn't careful.
I left no room for my expectations. I stated my desires, my needs, calmly and cleanly.
The last thing I wanted to do was make a drama out of this, but go in strong, with faith, and G-d helping me find the words.
I don't know whether I believe him or not, I didn't give him the chance to keep telling me know, I just layed it out and left it on the table.
He's in G-ds hands, and all i can do is pray that he stops before I find out. Or possibly I was wrong. It's out, clean and not movement of negotiations.
Not one drugs, not for me and not for this drug addict.
I left it be absolutely clear that I had my eye open, my ears glued and that if I found out he was selling drugs, that he would have to leave my home, leave the car and find somewhere else to live.
So today was so awesome, thank you G-d. My son's not only joined me for dinner at the table with my friend, but they went to services tonight with me. It was the most amazing thing when you think about it. Two teenage boys, pleasing their mom by going to services on a Friday night because I asked them to and they were doing ok, and loving to me.
I gotta tell ya, if he is selling drugs, he isn't doing a very good job of it, he is broke. :RollieEyes: Takes after both his parents on that one. Unfortunately we always smoked away our profits or snorted them. Not good business practice.
Shabbat Shalom, Mark and Pretty
My old rabbi, who is a man, much older and tends to be way more political and religious than we are used to. We started Breishit this week, commonly referred to as Genesis. He did a wonderful job of explain the order of why G-d created man after animals. He spoke about how animals were to inhabit the earth horizontally, but that even though people were created to inhabit the earth, they were destined for the vertical as well as horizontal.
He went on to explain about how Judaism is in its essence order and morals, etc and that we are like light in the world standing for order and morals. He talked about how people want to anniliate the Jews because we are the light to the world and that they want to have their own order that isn't necessarily what's best for everyone.
I often hear it's said the Jews are the chosen people. It's not that we are special, it's that we have an obligation to uphold things. I'm still processing what he said. And I'm glad he will be there tomorrow so I can talk to him more about it.
Mark if you are checking out tonight any thoughts?
Sleep well everyone, may G-d be with you and guide you as you rest your souls for tomorrow.
I totally agree, for the non-Jewish who stop by, have and AWESOME weekend.
When I look back at my recovery I remember how I DREADED weekends. I wanted to just die and not face the world. With G-d hand, your understanding and PATIENCE, I see that slowly I AM building a life of fun without WH. I dont DREAD weekends anymore, in fact they seem to be way more filled up and I cherish Sundays because I can stay at home with my boys and just watch football.
It's so hard when you first come here to believe that life will go on, it's different for sure, but it still goes on and if you seek G-d he will guide you slowly to what he has planned for you. My hardest part is WAITING for the answers.
I don't dare ask for patience, but I do ask for perserverance, clarity of his vision for me, and the willingness and strength to get up each and every day and be of maximum service to him.
When I think about how I could have dramatized what was going on with my son, it's amazing the growth in this gal . I felt the pain, I felt the excitement of the drama, and I prayed and asked G-d to help. It's not like it's something immediate, but over the course of the moment, hours and now days, I took care of it how G-d lead me. What happens is in his hands, but I feel very at peace if that makes sense. I don't HAVE TO FIX this, G-d is taking care of it.
WOW, I HAVE come a LONG WAY...
HEAD UP, CHEST OUT, SMILE ON, and LOVE FILLED UP IN MY HEART for the day.
Happy Saturday EVERYONE, may the sun shine not just outside but in your HEARTS.... and know you are loved by so many people.
I will offer you my insights, but I need some time...
I actually will be away of sorts for a few days...
I gave this some thought though, of the best way to give you the "insights of a Cheating, Emotionally Abusive Man named Silverwind"
I am thinking I am going to just write out what happened, basically the few years before we were married,the start of our marriage, during my A, and after along with what was going through my mind, my emotions, at that time... I will not throw in dialogue about what I now know was wrong until when I actually relized it. It will be just a running commentary as best I can recall. I think this will be good for me as well.
Ill throw you my email,and if you are comfortable or have a "spam" account, you can email me from there.I can then send this to you. I dont want to make a new thread, or post my thoughs in yours, or start a new one.I fear it will start off on a tangent and that is not what I want.
Does this sound reasonable?
If you have a better way, I am all for it.But that is the best I came up with.
I am so grateful and appreciative that you would do something like that. I totally want to hear your story. And my first gut reaction is to say here is my email.
However, it was explained to me last year
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Especially when we begin to commiserate with each other over our marital troubles, we make ourselves way too vulnerable. We're giving without getting anything in return all the time and when ANYONE starts meeting ANY of our ENs, the slope is so slippery that it is impossible to stop the slide once it begins. This is how lots of affairs begin, by two people sharing the problems they were having with their spouses.
This was given to me by Mark.
So, as much and as hungry as I am for information, I have to decline on the email offer. However, anyone who reads this, can understand what Silver is saying about things getting off on a tangent, please offer some input with might work.
Silver, maybe you can consider that you are helping alot of BS's who just are thirsty for understanding and information.
I hope everyone is having a good weekend.. It was sunny and warm in the PNW. Very cool.
Hey Queenie, I just wanted to say that I have been popping in and out of your thread for 6 months now and I can see changes in you. Your stronger, more reliant on God, your sense of humour shines thru more and more.....
I can absolutely feel my sense of humor being stronger these days and that's a good thing. It was my strength to perservere, just about anything. As for stronger, whatever I have it's from G-d and I just thank him for each day that I make it another day.
This morning I heard my YS moving around early. I just got up and asked him where he was going. He lied to me saying he was going to the high school to go play lacrosse. Funny thing about mom's they know when they are being lied to, most of the time. So I kept pressing, offering to come watch him etc.
Low and behold WH was coming to pick him up and bring him to lacrosse pick up game. YS left and walked back in and told me what he was doing. I'm glad he did that. I hate the lies.
I told him to have fun. I also have to be honest, I checked and YS got into the front seat of the car, so OW probably was not with them. But I'll be honest, I'll find out and if she was then I'll pray to G-d for strength, understanding, clarity of vision, etc. If not, then I'll be happy that a father and son were finally having some fun together and hope that it is one part of G-ds plan to bring him home.
I've stepped up my prayers and been more specific like you said Mark. On Friday, my cousin came through and sent me the exact amount of money that I asked G-d for.
I've stepped up my prayers and been more specific like you said Mark. On Friday, my cousin came through and sent me the exact amount of money that I asked G-d for.
Thank you. I am feeling stronger. I'm feeling a little more peaceful. I've stepped up my prayers and being more specific and just leaving it with G-d. I seem to be keeping myself busy, but not in a crazy making way.
At services yesterday I had a mini meltdown and was hugging my friend. I asked her is she thought H would come home. She said yes, she saw how he looked at me, and how he looked at his kids. So I just need to step up my prayers.
Halloween is H's birthday. I could totally go to the pity potty of not Plan Aing him that day, but I was in my own modified Plan B piece mealing what I was learning on here. I think it backfired because I would have been able to make him a cake that he hasn't had in years and OW would have NO IDEA.
But it is what it is and I just am asking G-d for the chance to make him that cake one day again.
It may seem that I am focusing on WH, I'm not. My soul feels like my H is crying out, I could be wrong, but I'm praying and will continue to pray hard for him.
I told OS where YS is, at first he reacted, shut down. I left him alone, waited for him to filter through the emotions he doesn't have and answer anything he asks. I also redirected him by asking him if he wanted to go to the movies, or what he wanted for dinner and then looking at a phone with the company we are going to.
He really didn't respond, he is 19 so I left him alone to work through the feelings, that he says he didn't have, or that he isn't mad. YEAH RIGHT.
So after about 15 minutes, OS said that he isn't mad about WH asking YS to go play, but he is mad at YS for going with WH when he says he doesn't want to be with him.
I just said, well, that YS is probably mixed up in his feelings on what he wants and that he could go play with his dad if he liked. He of course said he didn't want to. I left him alone, he went out to shoot hoops, too cold.
Came inside and after a few minutes I just told him that I am glad he shared his feelings with me. He just shook his head. So now I leave him alone and let the boys work it out, because it's really there deal.
While everyone is so busy saying they don't want dad to come home, their actions and attitude or totally opposite.
UGH.... Why do they all three have to be so stubborn and total recluses with feelings?
If I understand your question right, here is my answer...
I don't know if its a man thing, but I was always a very emotional person. I say emotional on the inside, I was afraid to let anyone see my emotions...Its not what a man does.And still am to some extent. Except for anger, that I was ok letting out. Go figure. Its easier to shut down and bury those emotions than to deal with them. And later in life you can drink them away, temporarily.
Any of the "non-manly" emotions I bottled up inside and stewed over in solitude or through punching walls. And this is throughout my life, not just recently. My brother is the same way. I never cried up front of anyone in my life with one exception. At my grandfathers funeral when I was probably 13 or so, and I was so ashamed of myself I hid behind one of those large monument like tombstones. The priest found me and kind of make it look like I was ok.
Why are we like this? I have no idea...
I have heard all the theories before mostly in a few college classes, tv, magazines, etc..., we are taught from a young age to "suck it up, be a man, rub some dirt on it, toughen up, etc..." And part of me thinks that a man is suppose to be tough, we are shown tough men every day. We see ads for the marines, the army, cowboys, movies portray men as tough guys who deal with anything. And they always get the good lookin woman!
When is the last time you saw a coach say its ok, let those emotions out? We see women on TV crying all the time and usually a man is close by to comfort them and say everything is going to be ok, but how often is it the other way around (except lifetime).
I dont know if I answered your questions, but I can say the way I deal with emotions is very unhealthy.
Its easier to shut down and bury those emotions than to deal with them. And later in life you can drink them away, temporarily.
Or you get into an A.
Having read what my WH do you think that my H will figure it out one day and come home?
Queenie,
I would love to say I read your entire story, but there is alot there and I have not yet. I am trying to not spend too much time on this site, its not good for me right now. Nor am I in any position to offer an answer to your question.
I can say I hope so because its no way to live a life.
You are right and I'm sorry for putting you in a weird position. I think I am just starving for information and I want to pick your brain.
If you get to a place where you have a little time and are in a good space, then I would be very appreciative, but right now, healing yourself is most important.
G-d needs you to become who he envisioned for you and that's most important.
I cant imagine someone haveing worse ways of dealing with their emotions than I do.
Its not that you dont know they are there, you just dont resolve them. You bury them by a variety of unhealthy means, and they are always with you and build and build and build and drag you down with them. Thats what happened to me.
I would also love to tell you how to change that, but I am not changed. I went from one extreme to the other. I showed nothing my entire life, and now I seem to get emotional if the wind blows too hard. Although I am getting better, i have healthy outlets now I feel safe with. It took me hitting rock bottom to realize those outlets were there all along, I just did not make use of them.
Its not that you dont know they are there, you just dont resolve them. You bury them by a variety of unhealthy means, and they are always with you and build and build and build and drag you down with them. Thats what happened to me.
Well, I never thought about it in that way before. So let me tell an abbreivated portion of our story.. leaving out where I was misguided and just sticking to what I was feeling at that time.
Well in a nutshell I felt totally and utterly rejected by my wife sexually and for a long time. I tried to make her love me again by buying books on "better sex" ways couples can become more intitate,a sex diet book because she was unhappy with herself physically (i though this was a GREAT idea!), etc etc etc... I just assumed it was a problem with me, not good enough in bed, not physically attractive, so my efforts were to fix the sex issue and only the sex issue.
Obviously this did not work and lead to unplesant conversations about her past lovers, their um assets, and how could she have not had these issues with them but with me. She told me it was her not me but I never believed her. I was jelous of every male friend she had, even ones she had not seen in years.
All this led me to believe the problem was with myself physcially, sexually, you name it. I had no self worth. Its hard for man not to be able to please his wife in that way, it really is.
So, after this went on for a while, the new girl started at work. All innoscent enough, she liked skiing, i liked skiing, so we skiied. At first there was nothing emotional at all, but as the weekly trips went on, we grew closer and closer and started talking about out personal lives not only on trips but texting too. You see where this is going, eventually it became physical. We felt safe with each other.
So was it a way to deal with my emotions? I guess it was. I wont lie, she made me feel good, she wanted me, and I thought if wife does not want me someone else does.
I suppose it was a way to resolve my feeling of rejection.
I hope that was not too much,I will edit if you think it is, but I though to answer your question required some context of where I was at that time.
So, after this went on for a while, the new girl started at work. All innoscent enough, she liked skiing, i liked skiing, so we skiied. At first there was nothing emotional at all, but as the weekly trips went on, we grew closer and closer and started talking about out personal lives not only on trips but texting too. You see where this is going, eventually it became physical. We felt safe with each other.
Can I ask you what made you think it was ok to go away with a woman, skiing?
I believed since I invited my wife every time I though it was ok.(I broke my hand after a probbaly 6 trips in 8 weeks, and once I skiied again after healing, I no longer invited her) I though if she did not want to go, that was just her problem. I was having fun again, having a great time, so its her problem if she does not want to come along.
I did invite her every time, up until after I broke my hand. So the first 6 trips over 8 or 9 weeks.
At first, I wanted them to be friends. This OW was someone who did alot of outdoor physical things my wife used to enjoy, I though they could be friends. I though she would enjoy it.
She was very depressed at this point, it was hard to get her to do anything other then plan an online game we both played wayyyyy too much. It was probably the only thing we did togather other than fight, and even fought over that at times. We would fight that I was in bed for hours and she was still playing. I would scream and yell at her to come to bed.
I need a little high five here people. My skins won, but come on, they almost lost to the Lions. Oh the joys of having to play the game instead of just winning it on paper.
But it took me 3 1/2 hours to wait and post about this.
Just like I pray for ONE CHANCE to make my M work.
WH just wouldnt' give me one slim chance. He told me he wanted something more than to be married to his best friend. That something more was a crack addict, twice divorce who got hep c by sharing needles with her ex husband as she shot up heroin.
I cant give you advice, but I can give you dorky quotes. This one from one of Zora and my favorite films.
Frodo: I can't do this, Sam. Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something. Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam? Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.
Remember, they always affair down! One day he will see it, but it may not come as quickly as you would like to to come. It may not come until you let go. I think sometimes God needs us to know that we can survive on our own, be happy with ourselves, and love our own life before he works the miracle.
Keep working on you girl. You have come a long way....
Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.
Ok this brought tears to my heart. I believe I am fighting for the good in my H. I have to keep trying, I just have to. But trying is leaving him completely to G-d and like you, learning about ME and learning to love me so I can be the woman G-d always envisioned for me.
Chai, We BOTH have come so far. So are you thinking that I need to divorce him?
No, not saying D at all. I'm just saying that this A may go on longer than you or any of us thought. If you don't want a D, then don't do it.
Like I said before, it's odd that my WH and your WH don't want to be M to us, but they won't D us. Mine wants me to do it so he can forever say it was ALL my fault. Not sure what yours is thinking.
Sorry, did not want to make you cry. But if it makes you feel better, It always got me all glassy eyed,more so these days. I actually am going to watch that movie now. I watched 1 inning on the World Series and said screw this, its lord of the rings time.One can only get so excited about the devil rays and phillies.
I asked Zora for a D several times, she told me at first no, then she said fill it out and she would sign. I never did. I dont think I ever believed we would end up Divorced. I guess I thought she would always be there. I was wrong.
Anyways, I am signing off, got a great movie to watch now.
Have a great night Queenie and thank you. Silverwind
You don't make me do anything or cause anything in me. I learned to take responsibility for my own feelings. :crosseyedcrazy: And that took a long time to say.
I don't know what you are thanking me, I didn't do anything. But I'm learning to say thank you.
Enjoy the movie, I hope to talk to you soon.
G-ds speed on your journey, it's a long battle for you and me as well.
You don't make me do anything or cause anything in me. I learned to take responsibility for my own feelings. :crosseyedcrazy: And that took a long time to say.
I don't know what you are thanking me, I didn't do anything. But I'm learning to say thank you.
Enjoy the movie, I hope to talk to you soon.
G-ds speed on your journey, it's a long battle for you and me as well.
I was thanking you because you did do something, you got me to understand some things from my past, and focusing not on the present but on the past and seeing things maybe just a little bit clearer. Its easy to look back and say I was wrong and know why, but to actually reflect on it, and discuss it, and see it is something else.
I was thanking you because you did do something, you got me to understand some things from my past, and focusing not on the present but on the past and seeing things maybe just a little bit clearer. Its easy to look back and say I was wrong and know why, but to actually reflect on it, and discuss it, and see it is something else.
At services yesterday I had a mini meltdown and was hugging my friend. I asked her is she thought H would come home. She said yes, she saw how he looked at me, and how he looked at his kids.
Sorry Queenie...must have been comforting to have had a friend there with you.... and I can see she is trying to be kind and stay positive for you.
I didn't think you had occasions to see your WS, yet given the above, it looks like you do. Does this happen often? Is he alone?
I know whenever it happens to me that I see (run into) WS, some triggering does happen sometime later at some point.
Just wondering if your meltdown is related to seeing your WS...
didn't think you had occasions to see your WS, yet given the above, it looks like you do. Does this happen often? Is he alone?
Hi Luna,
No I don't have any contact with WH or see him at all really. In fact, I haven't spoken one word to him since Plan B day on March 17th. I saw him in court and except for a quick look in the eye when he was across the street, I haven't given him any eye contact whatsoever.
My friend was referring to when we were happy and life before this whole mess and fiasco.
My friend was referring to when we were happy and life before this whole mess and fiasco.
The way I see it, Queenie, I am not sure if AT THAT TIME we actually appreciated those moments as much as when we do in looking back.
So sometimes I try to 'detach' from the present, NOW....like if I were looking in (or looking back)... and see the things I can actually appreciate IN THE MOMENT...rather than wait to appreciate them once they become the PAST....
So sometimes I try to 'detach' from the present, NOW....like if I were looking in (or looking back)... and see the things I can actually appreciate IN THE MOMENT...rather than wait to appreciate them once they become the PAST....
It makes absolute sense what you are saying.
If nothing else, we will become better partners for the next person. But you know Luna, I have to wonder if the WH's appreciated what they had in US. I can't speak for your sitch, but my husband was passive-agressive. He created chaos, he created drama, he pushed my buttons until I had no defenses and shut down. I have blamed myself for so long, I have taken HIS TRUTH as MY TRUTH and I'm not so sure.
Don't get me wrong, there is a wonderful man inside that monster that lurks as WH, but he took me for granted and pushed me away because I wanted to make our marriage better, and was willing to dig deep inside myself to change. He was miserable in his own life. I tried to fix him, make it better and in the end it wasn't my job to make him happy. My job was to love myself and make me happy and that's the one thing I am having the hardest time doing.
We went to counseling, he wouldn't address the unhappiness inside of him and as I get stronger, better and stopped playing the game, he found OW, a crack addict with hep C who he can control and manipulate like he couldn't me anymore. I don't believe for one second that the man I married is the monster who exists today. But I think I have FINALLY turned the corner in taking all the blame on ME.
We went to counseling, he wouldn't address the unhappiness inside of him and as I get stronger, better and stopped playing the game, he found OW,.....who he can control and manipulate like he couldn't me anymore.
You know, you just have to work on your own issues. Otherwise,.... KWIM?
Originally Posted by QueeniesNewLife
I don't believe for one second that the man I married is the monster who exists today.
That's interesting. I came to believe that the man I married never existed...that he was an act. And, when the second child was born and resembled him so much, he simply couldn't take it any longer and I saw the man who really existed. Counselor who worked with both of us thought I might be right. Whether he was just saying that or really believed me, I don't know. But I really think I married a sham.
Originally Posted by QueeniesNewLife
But I think I have FINALLY turned the corner in taking all the blame on ME.
Those of us who are betrayed do often find ourselves as the recipient of many guilting episodes. We do need to realize that their choices are THEIR CHOICES and not things that were forced on to them. This is something the waywards need to recognize, also. We didn't make them cheat. We didn't make them abusive. We didn't make them take any action. They did those things of their own will.
That's interesting. I came to believe that the man I married never existed...that he was an act. And, when the second child was born and resembled him so much, he simply couldn't take it any longer and I saw the man who really existed. Counselor who worked with both of us thought I might be right. Whether he was just saying that or really believed me, I don't know. But I really think I married a sham.
How would I know if the man I married was a sham or not? It has crossed my mind many times, but then I remember how much he loved me, but is a man in turmoil and pushed his unhappiness down until he could not go on. Or something like that. But seriously, how do we know if who we married were just shams.
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They did those things of their own will.
I would doubt any wayward would think of it that way, I know mine believes well, it actually doesn't matter, but what matters is how they twist it all around and drives in the guilt, the what ifs.. etc. That is the worst of all.
Well, I really seem to be on a roll of getting some backbone. I have put something into motion that is going to not have the WH too happy in the next few days. In fact, his birthday might be ruined if G-ds timing is nice. I have finally made a decision to allow WH reap the consequences of his choices and I'm feeling mightily empowered.
Once it happens, I'll post about it, but you never know...
My YS wants to go to homecoming. I think it's so cool. I looked into renting a tux, a cool 160.00. But I might have YS talked into going to goodwill and getting a suit that would cost so much cheaper. I could use a little prayer on this one.
My kids were in public all together taking care of some business. They were all hungry and evidently got into a rip roaring fight in public. Oh the joys of children. I love that I get to be around to hear the horrors of their actions. Good thing I don't need to go to that store.
It's weird, I am very grateful that the new person who signed back on, happyinoka? is writing about her life now. I haven't had a chance to read up on her story, but it sounds like she was hurting tremendously when it happened. My heart breaks for the pain she went through, but she sounds so happy and so strong.
I can see the tunnel where that is possible. I'm not ready to admit defeat or give up on my love for my H, but having her here was a nice comfort in knowing that you can be as low and hurt as deep and we have and still come out of it.
Not what we want, but G-d will turn it into good.
Hey JT, if you are checking in, remember we have a date for Nov. 11th, right?
Well, I really seem to be on a roll of getting some backbone.
This certainly has gotten my curiosity up... do tell when you can!
You sound good.
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It's weird, I am very grateful that the new person who signed back on, happyinoka? is writing about her life now.
Yeah...very encouraging.
Seeing I was around then, though, has gotten me asking myself a lot of questions, and a lot of 'I shoulds' come up...a bit like Bugs. Oh well, to each his own path, I guess...trying to accept the fact that I may be one of the 'slow learners' around here.
Seeing I was around then, though, has gotten me asking myself a lot of questions, and a lot of 'I shoulds' come up...a bit like Bugs. Oh well, to each his own path, I guess...trying to accept the fact that I may be one of the 'slow learners' around here.
Mimi is constantly lovingly of course :twobyfour:, pointing out that we are on our own timeline. There are a few of us who have the knack to expect us to be done with this or done with that, be to that point in our recovery etc. Lord knows I expect perfection from me, but it's not reasonable.
Our stories that bring us here are different, just like our recoveries. Who we were before and who we end up being is in G-ds time because he knows our path and knows what he is trying to teach and work out in us.
I wish my journey was over, I wish that I was healed and the end is here, but not our day today. Maybe tomorrow.
I Can Not WAIT to hear more about this when the time is right!!!
It probably will be a silly step for most, but it's HUGE for me, and I need to let G-d work it out before I explain. I don't want to assume anything until it works itself through and I see what happens.
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Empowerment is a powerful thing! Use it and keep it going!! Spread it out over all aspects of your life!! Goddess like, in every way!!
I am defintely feeling in a different place. While I don't want to, I can open the window and see a life without my H. So, today I take the feeling, I keep working on me, not being destructive to myself and step those baby steps in learning how to love myself.
Yesterday there was a mom who was in the office. She has lived in an emotionally abusive marriage for years. We were talking and the similarities and understanding of what each of us experienced was scary, but simply ok. We understand not knowing what the truth is, we understand the mind set if only I had, and even though everyone says it, we have that doubt today.
We talked about possibly creating a support group for abused people because our realities can be just different. I really want to stress that my husband was a good man, but he is sick. And he made my life miserable for years. I'm lucky to survive, I made mistakes, but it's time that I start looking at the truth instead of creating my perfect life. If that makes sense.
Don't keep us in suspense for too long girl. We're anxious to hear what that new backbone did for you. We always love it when the BS makes the WS reap the consequences of the A.
Chai, It hasn't played itself out yet, so I need to be respectively and keep it quiet until it plays itself out and I don't assume.
Seems like I haven't been here for awhile. Life has gone on and in fact I seem to be enjoying life more and more. I had the best weekend that I have had in a LONG time and it was really nothing, but living. And that was nice.
I am finding myself feeling freer and able to cope without WH in my life. I don't think about him hardly at all, but I do keep him in my prayers daily and ask G-d to bring him home to our family. I still have my moments of deep sadness and I cry to myself inside and outwardly. I even have meltdowns, but they don't last nearly as long and I am able to just walk through the pain, feel it and know it will end.
I find enjoyment in the fall leaves because they are magnificent around her. I find enjoyment in by INSISTING with YS that I be involved in him getting dressed for homecoming, but learning to take care of myself and know that I was tired to pick him up and got my OS to do it.
I took on a small task over the weekend to accomplish for the Women of Reform Judaism convention that's happening this week here. I completed it and even dug out my sewing machine to surprice my sisterhood by having the district quilt completed for convention. They will be SHOCKED.
I'm not as restless, though sleep is still hard for me and I can still be so tired, but I don't seem to have the nightmares. I made it throught WH's birthday on Halloween, yes I was sad to miss it, yes I had regrets that I wasn't in a better Plan A last year to bake him a cake that crack ho wouldn't know about. So I called his aunt to tell her I was thinking of her and loved her instead of him.
I find I am healing more and more, still LOTS to get through I am sure, and I can't admit this is for the rest of my life because G-d knows the plans, I don't. But I do know I can MAKE it TODAY and that's all I have to do is TODAY.
I too had a great weekend. Little stress on H-ween dealing with pure emotions...kinda went off plan A and spoke some truth to WW. We'll see if I hit any marks...just tired of walking on eggshells around her. I know to be careful of LB's, etc. but sometimes you just gotta speak your heart. If you get a chance you may look at my latest posts for the complete update.
Keep up the faith....God really is in charge!!
Good friend said this to me yesterday...want to share with you.
"I have watched you grow as a christian and have watched your son grow as a christian. You both embrace each other throughout church and I can see the change in both your lives. So, let me ask you this...if you continue to grow and your son continues to grow and your faith continues to grow and you allow God to control your lives...and your wife never returns...have you lost anything?"
As soon as my boss is safely out of the building and I can concentrate, you betcha I will hop on over to your thread to see what's happening.
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"I have watched you grow as a christian and have watched your son grow as a christian. You both embrace each other throughout church and I can see the change in both your lives. So, let me ask you this...if you continue to grow and your son continues to grow and your faith continues to grow and you allow God to control your lives...and your wife never returns...have you lost anything?"
It's so weird, yesterday at a class i was involved with by the rabbi, was on prayer. I was getting the impression that Jews don't believe that G-d micro manages their lives. Being a member of AA, I have come to understand and make a DAILY decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of G-d.
It hit me weird what was being said, and I remember Mark and I think ForeverHers telling me that G-d wants a relationship with us, and that he will either put things in our life or allow us to make our own free will choices, but that in the end, he will seek us for that relationship.
When this happened, I came to understand that I couldn't blame G-d, but had to be HONEST that I had NO relationship with G-d and that just like in Psalm 23, He MADE ME LIE down, to restore my soul, G-d hit me with a brick to lie down and listen to him. Who I had become, what my life was like what close to death in so many ways.
So what have I lost. ALOT. The man I loved more than anything in life and a family that I didn't take enough care of. But what have I GAINED. WAY MORE... I continue to become the woman G-d envisioned for me. I have become a better, woman, mother and in so many ways wife, I just don't get to show it to anyone. I have become a better friend and better person who is more understanding, loving and caring for other peoples pain.
I can see the world for the amazing thing it is. As well as the most important thing of ALL. I am a servant of G-d today, I have a relationship with him that is one of blessings and love. I don't have the one thing I want, but G-d is providing everything I need.
Maybe warn him that they can be taken away. They are privileges - not rights - and he gets to earn them. Failure to improve by designated amount will result in loss for designated period of time. If he gets grades up and keeps them up, he gets to keep his privileges.....
There's always drivers' ed to hang over his head too. Until he's 18, you are the one who gives him permission to get a permit, take drivers' ed, and even drive.
That means, even after he gets his license, you can still have it taken from him by signing a form with the State Patrol.
this was my first response to the counselor - Think I should kill him?
Her response - After you yell at him 
then I wrote - Oh good. I was hoping you were going to say that.
Seriously, this is what I came up with. He has one chance…. ONE…
NOT ONE MORE MISSING ASSIGNMENT…
Grades – all brought up by the end of November.
Or he loses cell phone, all electronics, what do you think?
I think we are in agreement Cinders
YES!!! I haven't spent all that time going to parenting classes for nothing.
Tonight, I will tell my daughter that I do plan on cancelling her text mail for a while. And, if I have one more sexually-related infraction of the mom rules, I drop her off my phone plan and she can deal with it herself.
Tonight, I will tell my daughter that I do plan on cancelling her text mail for a while. And, if I have one more sexually-related infraction of the mom rules, I drop her off my phone plan and she can deal with it herself.
They think they stand a chance against us.....
They DON'T.....
We are survivors who love our kids and will raise them right.
We didn't have this choices when we were younger. I only got DRUGS.... Man... How UNFAIR.....
Well YS and I had a glorious evening learning about how wonderful he is in class, how much the teachers enjoy him, what a great kid he is and oh YES, that little detail of NO HOMEWORK, NONE ZIPPO...
Needless to say, my son was doing homework after I got home from another meeting and he got up early to go to school for help with math. Of course he didn't get mcmuffins out of the deal, but hey, I'm into bribing 15 1/2 year olds....
He knows the bottom line... It's his choice, his life, his consequences.
On another note: I'm in a weird place. I continue to get stronger and stronger everyday. Where I didn't feel like participating in life, I feel more and more capable of handling things again. Of course, this is my way of not learning about myself and taking care of myself. So I hesitate to get involved for a little longer.
But as I read on here how BS are angry with WS, I still feel the urge to reach out and shake them because their spouses are at home and are given a chance to make their M work. I didn't get ONE SHOT, NOT ONE CHANCE... NOTHING...
And I didn't even get the chance to be mad. I realized how serious this was from the beginning and that I had lost him and I have fought everyday to be given the chance. My WH is out there, completely walked away from our life, walked away from his children, his family etc. and is GONE. What the WS did was despicable, but on my side of the street, if you had to go through this, what side would you want to be on, the one with or without the WH and the chance to build a brand new M.
I have no right to tell anyone else how to feel or understand how lucky they are in spite of what their WS has done. I'm not explaining myself well at all and I'm not trying to offend or judge anyone. We all have to walk through this how we walk through this.
I just WISH and contine to PRAY for that one CHANCE to recover my M.
Here is what happened at school today for my YS. YEAH
I met with YS for the first time today. I remembered him from Challenge Day, and among other things, we discussed some of the things we learned at Challenge Day and how it relates to where he is today. He released a lot of what is on his mind today and talked for about 40 minutes. We set an academic goal today, to “turn in all my homework on time and complete.” This goal is for the current nine weeks. I asked him how he could reward himself for achieving this goal. He was not sure. I offered a suggestion of bringing in his favorite lunch after the nine weeks if he achieves his goal. He said he likes steak and mashed potatoes, so if he achieves his goal I will arrange to bring that in one day early second semester.
I enjoyed meeting YS and getting to know him a little better today. I will schedule a follow-up meeting in three weeks to check in with him on his goals. He knows he can make an appointment to see me if there is anything he wants to talk about or if he needs support in achieving his goal in the meantime.
I am so grateful he opened up to SOMEONE.... Thank you G-d.... Thank you G-d.
This was my response..... because I had to learn this part in my journey.
I don’t think you can ever understand how grateful I am to you. If there is anything I can do to support you, please let me know.
YS is a wonderful young man and I love him deeply. As a mom I want to fix hard times, journeys and lessons in life. Unfortunately I can’t. He has to work through this time in his life for himself so he can celebrate the successes of him coming through and learning about who he is as a young man growing up in a very difficult period as well as build lifelong skills and strategies to face other problems in life.
I am so excited that he shared with you. He needs that positive male connection in life and safe environment to acknowledge his feelings.
In so many ways I go back to Psalm 23rd. G-d made me lie down to restore me. I KNOW that. I was living such an ung-dly life and he had enough of watching me destroy myself. Fortunately I was willing to open my eyes and look at myself instead of WH and learn those lessons so that I can be a better example to my children and let my children have a better chance in life in living a healthier life than what we were showing them.
I still love having those sermons, it helps to center me
I can't make those up I'm afraid. I can only share what I have learned or am learning. I don't know where they come from (yeah, I do), but they aren't really from me...
thank you Luna...... You are such a special person to me.....
I'm off to go see a bunch of catered Jewish woman, who don't have a clue about real life and troubles. But they are fun, rich and I love to laugh with them.
It hurts so much, I know. WH phones my boys nearly every night on their phones, they know to go to there rooms and speak to him.My consolation is ,how does WH feel when he puts down the phone?.One can't compare a 5 min call to you as mom always being there for your boys.He is still missing out on their lives big time.He will never be able to replace the time he lost with his children and remember it was his CHOICE.
Queenie, he will always be their father. He won't be the one they remember as being there for them. It's a fact of life. In time, this won't matter.
Look at the continuum of life. A phone call isn't much.
When my children were little, their dad called daily or they called him. In fact, that went on for years. On the landline phone because that was all we had. I was expected to remind them to call. For years, I had to dial the number and hand the phone to them. By the time they were 10 or so, all I would agree to do was tell them to call. So, don't sweat them exchanging a brief phone call now and then.
Just because they talk to their dad doesn't mean they think more of him. Don't make a big deal of it to your children. Just vent here. (But you probably did this to know - sort of like taking a hit from your addiction, didn'tcha?)
Queenie, even though both my boys see their dad alternate weekends and speak on the phone regularly, they have both said, with no hesitation, that they have lost respect for their dad. Respect is something that is difficult to get back IMO, and the sad thing is that WH is so unaware of this, he thinks he has a great relationship with his boys...on the surface , yes...
Tonight, the sadness is just at the surface. Stupid me looked at YS's cell phone and saw that WH called.
Can you believe I'm jealous. Of course you can. How stupid, selfish and silly. It's his child for heaven's sake.
But the wave is coming in. I know the feeling. I know I'll get through it. I just hate knowing it's coming in.
I am thinking of you tonight. I know you posted this hours ago, but I am praying for peace in your soul tonight.
I remember a moment when I felt that jealousy. I posted about it here. This was the only safe place to speak of it, because I was so ashamed that I would be jealous. My oldest son was going to "hang out" with his dad one weekend night. I remember just feeling betrayed by that, and at the same time feeling ashamed that it even bothered me.
We all feel it at times, Queenie. And like you know, it passes. It's just another step along a long and winding journey.
Hi there, thank you so much for the hugs and concerns and support.
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Just because they talk to their dad doesn't mean they think more of him. Don't make a big deal of it to your children. Just vent here. (But you probably did this to know - sort of like taking a hit from your addiction, didn'tcha?)
I'm not jealous that YS has a relationship with his dad. He really NEEDS that. I'm jealous that H is spending time with YS and not spending time with me. I miss him so much.
I just got home from convention. Spent too much time there and it brought me down after awhile. I overestimated how healed I was. I should have slept at home.
When I got home I figured out YS is playing lacrosse with WH. But I was already reeling. Last night my friends husband made a dvd from all her loved ones wishing her a happy birthday. It was actually a very touching moment. But what set me off was how the husband started out talking about he put it together.
He was bragging about how he lied to her for months, went behind her back, talked to her friends etc and that he could have been having an affair and she would never have suspected. That hit me hard and I just didn't find the humor in it. So I have been shutting down inside ever since.
Can I trade you for my ODD? Her mouth is getting her into too much trouble with daddy. LOL
I feel for you and your YS. Does he (Or will he) have anybody he can talk to other than yourself or his siblings? Be very careful!!! I went through much of what you describe, and basically it came down to me convincing myself that I shouldn't care because my Dad doesn't, then carried it around for 25 years.
Sorry about the constant triggers. Jokes about cheating don't have the same luster anymore, do they?
I miss you SO MUCH. YS got to talk to a school counselor this week and released much in a 40 minute session. The counselor is checking in with YS in three weeks. So, yes finally he has someone to talk to.
No I do not think you stupid for keping faith that he will come home. Your heart will know when it's been long enough. My best friends broke up for three years (Not M and No A, but she got very serious with someone else and had a child) and it took them that amount of time to figure out that they loved each other and were meant for each other.
So it can happen and does happen... Just remember that either way you will make it and it is posible for find the happiness you seek.
I still love the H way too much. What is up with that.
I really miss you TMTS... It's been about a year for you and you and I went through some really bad times. I'm so glad life is better for you.
My life will go one for sure. But there will always be that emptiness of losing the man I loved with all my heart and soul and promised to be married to forever.
I'll keep faith and trusting today... Just today.
As for your child... NOPE.... youre on your own.....
Can we hook up at 12:00 instead of 11:00 at the clock. I am going to be spending the whole day away from the boys and would like to spend some time with them in the AM.
So I found out that my neice, WH's goddaughter is getting a D. I wrote about how a year into the marriage she found out her H was cheating on her and now I just found out how she cheated on him.
It breaks my heart because how people just give up. WH commented to me when we went to her wedding last summer when this first happened about marriage. They said the most amazing vows, and for NOTHING.
Am I just crazy? Too old fashioned to live in this time?
I hate D. I hate how people just walk away from M and move on.
JT and I had an absolutely fun afternoon walking around the Bellevue mall. We decided that we aren't going there until AFTER the holidays. I'm so grateful I got to spend time with you yesterday.
We discussed alot about our journeys and my path to follow. Then I went up to my second job and spoke with my boss who in many ways is a spirtual sounding board for me along with her husband.
We talked in great length about divorce. We talked about my M, about WH and who he has become and we talked about truths in my M. We had been working with these people for YEARS because of the hurts that my H continually caused in our life. Please, please don't get me wrong. I love my H, I believe that there is someone very loving and good inside of him, but that person doesn't exist today. And he won't exist for a very long time because he is so sick inside of himself.
I have searched and searched for G-d's guidance and understanding of what to do. I made a commitment to this man and I know he loved me at one point. But he has so many issues that are related to himself and NOT ME.
Where does this leave me. Well so grateful that I came to MB in the beginning. All of you were my lifeline. I simply just wanted to DIE. I wanted to fix it, make him come home, come to understand how he could be doing what he is doing. I wanted to take the blame, all of it and bring him home. I wanted to sacrifice my life for his if it would bring him home.
But G-d repeatedly said NO.... I didn't get one chance at making my M work. Time and time again, I watched people on here get something albeit a crumb, but then their WH came home, some made it and some didn't. I couldn't grasp why I wasn't given the opportunity when I was willing to give up everything for him.
I hated myself, I hated what I had done to my M, the guilt the horror that I was responsible for ripping apart a family.
Then last night it really dawned on me. G-d is protecting me from WH. WH has been changing for YEARS and YEARS. He isn't coming home because he can't control me the way he can crack ho. And he needs control, he needs to create chaos and turmoil and blame the other person, he needs to be able to pick on someone and feel good about himself and G-d watched me take it for years and years and keep trying to change myself so that it would get better in our lives.
In my own way, I am beginning the process of divorcing my H spiritually, emotionally and mentally. Plan B has given me this time and "place" to really look at how and what G-d is doing in my life. I'm not ready to get the legal part completed, but I am ready to move forward in the other three arenas.
I repeat, there is still so much love in my heart for my H, and I would give anything for him to come home. But the truth is, until I learn to truly love myself, take care of myself, G-d won't let WH or H near me. So I surrender to G-d and ask him to finish working in me what he needs me to work on so I can truly become his woman and therefore be in a place to truly accept the blessings he is wanting to bestow on me.
18 months ago, I never imagined I could move forward like I am. But I have, I have learned, I have worked very hard to grasp the truth and reality and I have surrendered because I have no other choice but to continue to give G-d my life and see where he leads me.
Last week's Torah portion, Parashat Lech L'cha defines the ultimate journey of humanity. Within each of us there is a search for meaning. Lech L'cha defines this search as one that is deeply spiritual. In these few words, the Torah teaches us a great deal about our relationship with God and how God speaks to us.
Adonai said to Abram, "Go forth from your native land and from your father's house to the land that I will show you. . . ." Abram went forth as Adonai had commanded him. . . . (Genesis 12:1, 4)
I have come to accept it is time for me to go forth from the house of my H that I know and let G-d take me to the place he has always designed for me in spirit, body and mind..
Y'lheratzon,
May this be so.....
to my MB family for giving me the time and space to grow and change and become...
We are ALL the perfect example of how we survive in our own ways when we let G-d in and the bad out. As in AA, keep coming back it works if you work it. And working the Plans have worked in my life. I know I went down fighting trying to change and salvage my M, I know that I let go when I didn't want to and I know that G-d has my life now and is taking me somewhere unknown.
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What a blessing you are!
Ok a little bragging... My Hebrew name is Bracha, which means blessing. I need to thank my parents.
We know that God lovingly watches over us. We know that when we turn to Him, all will be well with us, here and hereafter.
TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 105
I pray for the willingness to remember that I am a child of God, a divine soul in human form, and that my most basic and urgent life-task is to accept, know,love and nurture myself. As I accept myself, I am accepting God's will. As I know and love myself, I am knowing and loving God. As I nurture myself I am acting on God's guidance. I pray for the willingness to let go of my arrogant self-criticism, and to praise God by humbly accepting and caring for myself.
I have come to accept it is time for me to go forth from the house of my H that I know and let G-d take me to the place he has always designed for me in spirit, body and mind..
(I wish there was a little emoticon for a standing ovation.)
For a moment, reading your post I thought you were LEAVING!!!!
Leave this place.. No, not me. But it is time for me to transition to a different place on here. One of hope, one of acceptance that I am healing and moving on and one of gratefulness that it might not be what I wanted, it is what G-ds will is for me.
Hope you and I want the same thing. Where it ends up we don't know, but we are together and holding hands in heart to keep moving forward and just being where we need to be.
I love you Hope
PM, the standing ovation is for US. Not me. We on here create the place to keep learning, accepting and moving. This is ALL OF OUR GLORIES....
thank you so much for all you have given and done for me.
You are so special to me and I am so blessed to have you in my life.
You are an inspiration to us all. I am new here and still dealing with the shock of the situation, but....
On my d-day (9-14-08), I called my best friend and told him what happened. He said, "I love you and your wife, but until you hit your knees and find out where you are with God, and what direction He wants you to take, all we are doing is talking."
It took me three hours before I kneeled down...took another 3 hours before I was done.
I did not get a voice or vote in my WAW's A. They did.
I had two choices...surrender to God OR be the mean person WAW made me out to be. Well, I choose God!
In the past several weeks, many of my empolyees have come to my aid, now they are coming to me for prayer. In all my years, I wanted to pray for people and share God with people. I simply did not. God spoke to me about 8 months ago and told me that I had better start following Him or I would lose it all. Well, did I listen? I can assure you that I am now.
My relationship with my children has never been better. My 12 y.o. DS and I pray nightly. I start with softly singing hymns and then we pray. After prayer, we simply hug each other for a long time. He told me last night that I was his best friend.
The moral of my story: God wants what is best for His children. Just like our kids, we have to LISTEN. As for me, I will continue to ALLOW God to take me in the direction that He has already planned for me. At this point in my life, and for the first time, I KNOW that I am complete. When I read all these posts, I am reminded that one day my WAW will regret the fact that she not only didn't listen to God, but moved on in a direction that is AGAINST His will. I miss her cause I, like you are still very much in love with her, however, at this time I've accepted the fact that God is also protecting me. How can we lose?
The moral of my story: God wants what is best for His children. Just like our kids, we have to LISTEN. As for me, I will continue to ALLOW God to take me in the direction that He has already planned for me. At this point in my life, and for the first time, I KNOW that I am complete. When I read all these posts, I am reminded that one day my WAW will regret the fact that she not only didn't listen to God, but moved on in a direction that is AGAINST His will. I miss her cause I, like you are still very much in love with her, however, at this time I've accepted the fact that God is also protecting me. How can we lose?
Thanks for helping in you sweet way, my healing!
You are so welcome, but it's truly G-d speaking through me. 18 months ago, I just wanted to die. I couldn't, couldn't imagine EVER being at this point.
I think you have a better grasp of G-d than I, in that you KNOW you are complete. I am surrendering to learn it because there is NO OTHER way for me. Your analogy on how you didn't listen to G-d, SO ME. But then again, maybe this was our path all along because there is NO MORE LYING to ourselves. As Mark has helped me so often, if we are here to have a relationship with G-d and we didn't. And now we do, then we are so much better people because of what we have gone through, listened and found G-d.
We could have turned away, been bitter, etc. But the light of love that G-d has for us, shown and burned into us there was a better way to life and you and I are on that better path to light, glory and happiness.
We in the end, though hurting deeply now, feel like we have lost more today, will come out the winners because like you see as much as I do, are CHOOSING to learn the lessons and move forward in G-ds will and path for us.
Our spouses, who knows where there journeys' lead them. Hopefully back to us, but if not, we will be blessed for finding and creating relationships with G-d. They can lie to themselves the rest of their lives, but they could never have what we have.
You are an amazing man, Kick, I'm sorry you hurt, I'm sorry the pain this has caused you, but look at the beauty around you now. It's a miracle and a blessing and you have earned the joy and love from so many on here and in your real life for how you have walked through this.
While we are being protected, what better time it is to strengthen our commitment and relationship to G-d and let him finish what he has started in us.
Mark, you may not be willing to fully accept or truly begin to understand how you have helped me walk through this. You were my strength and commitment to G-d, like Mimi and JT to just keep walking in FAITH and TRUST him. Those three cheers are for US.. G-ds children, because in the worst possible set of circumstances, G-ds love and guidance wins... NOT that monster Satan.
Chai, you are the most amazing person, the strength and resolve you have. It just inspires me to keep moving and be there right along side of you. I love you girl, I so hope you and Smartiepants come out here for New Years and my 25th annivesary. Chances are WH won't be getting me a card of gift this year.
As I've stated, this was the hardest thing to grasp. I was lying to myself, because I was not walking on the path God wanted.
We in the end, though hurting deeply now, feel like we have lost more today, will come out the winners because like you see as much as I do, are CHOOSING to learn the lessons and move forward in G-ds will and path for us.
Once I was able to completly surrender my sitch to God...not just my marriage, but my LIFE...I found myself relaxed and competent in everything I am doing. I have not felt so confident in years.....it is amazing what complete trust in God can do for you.
While we are being protected, what better time it is to strengthen our commitment and relationship to G-d and let him finish what he has started in us.
Queenie, you are in control of your life...anyone else that reads this needs to believe this. All these vets preach that WE cannot change our spouse. The two things my WAW told me on d-day and numerous other times was that I was miserable and made everyone else miserable AND that I cannot make anyone else happy unitl I make myself happy. Now, she hurt me cause there were many other hurtful things she said that day, but I took these two to heart and literally gave them to God. I am just an ordinary guy who loves my family and works hard to provide for them....BUT without the true inner PEACE that comes from the love of God....I was lying to myself. I can NEVER "go back" because HE made me realize that walking with Him is MY happiness.
the BIGGEST mistake I made in my life was believing this. Yes, I make choices, but G-d is in CONTROL of my life. He has a plan for me. It was my independence, my ego, my whatever I can't figure out the word that allowed me to think otherwise.
I am not willing to think I have control at all. What I have is a second chance with my relationship with G-d and I am blessed that he is so good to me.
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I can NEVER "go back" because HE made me realize that walking with Him is MY happiness.
Yes, I make choices, but G-d is in CONTROL of my life. He has a plan for me. It was my independence, my ego, my whatever I can't figure out the word that allowed me to think otherwise.
I just read an interview with Twila Paris. She had some really good things to say about G-d being in control:
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I've learned more about how I sometimes treat him as my heavenly Father. For example, when J.P. was two or three months old, I tried to get his attention one day. I called his name and did all kinds of things. He wouldn't look at me for anything. He was like, Whatever, Mom. Yes, you stacked the blocks. Yes, you're calling my name. He was focused on the chair-rail wall molding. It was then I realized, That's how G-d feels when I get distracted by something that has no value whatsoever. That was quite a wake-up call. But really that was something God had been teaching me through Jack's illness—to focus on him.
I'm learning G-d's ultimately more interested in developing eternal character. He's willing to sacrifice our temporary happiness in order to bring us eternal joy. Remember, G-d sees the big picture. But I'm so shortsighted. I think we all are.
G-d's so eager to have an intimate relationship with us. Think of G-d's patience—how He waits and calls our name, and calls our name, and calls our name until finally we give the Creator of the universe a little of our precious time. It's disgusting to think about what we do.
But then he's right there. You'd think we should have to call out to him repeatedly. But instead G-d calls to us.
Through worship, G-d inhabits the praises of his people. So whether it's by yourself or in a group, when you worship, He's there. He keeps that promise every time. When I think about that, that inspires love and service and sacrifice in return. When I think about who he is and how he takes care of us, I realize G-d really is in control.
My father's idea of roughing it was to rent a fishing boat that had a manual start outboard...
But I was a Boy Scout. Really. I had a green uniform and everything.
I remember walking along a path in the woods in the middle of the night. The trees seemed to swallow up the surroundings and noises, some identifiable and others more sinister by the fact that I couldn't tell what they were all around me.
But I had this really cool flashlight and when I turned it on and could see where I was headed, it wasn't so scary after all. The light was just bright enough to illuminate my way and show me where I was going. As long as that light was pointed onto the path, I knew exactly where I was headed.
But if I swung the light off to the side, and pointed it into the woods, now it was really scary. Not only couldn't I see the path I needed to stay on but I could also see all sorts of things in the darkness of the woods. Some of them were merely shadows and not anything real at all, but when you're 9 or 10 you don't reason that well and it is the UNseen that holds the most terror.
The light shining into the trees didn't cast a beam very far and the woods seemed to swallow it up within a few scant yards so that it's power seemed to be lessened some how. And when it did strike something that was alive, it caused the animal's eyes to glow, usually an eerie red that seemed to be so evil in its very nature.
But when I turned the light back onto the path, all those things dimmed into memory very quickly and I could once more see where I was going and knew that I was still on the right path. As long as I kept that light pointed where I was headed and kept my gaze fixed onto its bright circle ahead of me, I knew everything would be alright.
Haggai 1 (NIV) 5 Now this is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 6 You have planted much, but have harvested little. You eat, but never have enough. You drink, but never have your fill. You put on clothes, but are not warm. You earn wages, only to put them in a purse with holes in it."
7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 8 Go up into the mountains and bring down timber and build the house, so that I may take pleasure in it and be honored," says the LORD. 9 "You expected much, but see, it turned out to be little. What you brought home, I blew away. Why?" declares the LORD Almighty. "Because of my house, which remains a ruin, while each of you is busy with his own house.
When we focus on ourselves and our own circumstances or on our surroundings, our progress comes to a stop. We are afraid, unsure of where to go and what to do and become lost in our self pity. No matter what we think we can do to overcome our lot, we find that it is never enough. We think we're making progress but it is all an illusion.
When we focus on Him we know where we are headed and know that we are going down the right path. His ways first and our ways will be smooth and easy going.
Psalm 119: 105 & 106 (The Message) By your words I can see where I'm going; they throw a beam of light on my dark path. I've committed myself and I'll never turn back from living by your righteous order.
As long as we remain focused on His light and follow where He leads us, we can know that we are safe and that nothing can harm us, because we can see the light of God's words shining before us, showing us where we need to go.
Bracha, you truly are a blessing...
Upon the righteous, upon the pious, upon the elders of your people of the house of Israel, upon the remnant of their scholars, upon the righteous converts, and upon ourselves, may Your compassion arise, O Lord our God, and give good reward to all who sincerely believe in your Name. Include us with them forever, and let us not be ashamed, for we put our trust in You. Blessed are You, Lord, the stronghold and assurance of the righteous.
It was 18 months today since d-day. I left this day in G-ds hands, and walked through slower at times when the pain was a little harder and asked G-d to help me move forward. I laughed like I used to. I even made jokes about this situation. A true testament to G-ds grace in healing me.
18 months ago tonight, my world was ripped apart and all that was left was the ashes of desperation to just die and not feel any pain. Today, I walked with G-d as his humble, grateful student learning his ways, walking in his words and praying that one day, this will be over the way he plans and I will be the woman he always envisioned.
I love that analogy Mark... I have spent a great deal of the day, asking G-d to take my hand and lead me in the dark, because though I see light, I still am in the dark. And that's ok.
Shabbat Shalom Cinders and Mark, and for those who don't celebrate shabbat. Have an awesome weekend.
Queenie, I just want to say that you are making a wonderful journey and I believe it will lead you to even more wonderful places. I am not a spiritual person but it shines through your posts.
I wish you all the best and pray for you in my heart.
Isaiah 35(NIV) 3 Strengthen the feeble hands, steady the knees that give way;
4 say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
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Micah 7 (New Living Translation) 8 Do not gloat over me, my enemies! For though I fall, I will rise again. Though I sit in darkness, the Lord will be my light. 9 I will be patient as the Lord punishes me, for I have sinned against him. But after that, he will take up my case and give me justice for all I have suffered from my enemies. The Lord will bring me into the light, and I will see his righteousness. 10 Then my enemies will see that the Lord is on my side. They will be ashamed that they taunted me, saying, “So where is the Lord— that God of yours?” With my own eyes I will see their downfall; they will be trampled like mud in the streets.
Thank you so much why_us. I have to say that I always prayed for a relationship with G-d. Little did I know how it would happen, but I am grateful for it nonetheless. In the long run it will be what saves my life.
Chai, I need you to email me because I got a new computer and don't have it on there, but I want to get you my cell phone number.
Mark,
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8 Do not gloat over me, my enemies! For though I fall, I will rise again. Though I sit in darkness, the Lord will be my light. 9 I will be patient as the Lord punishes me, for I have sinned against him. But after that, he will take up my case and give me justice for all I have suffered from my enemies. The Lord will bring me into the light, and I will see his righteousness.
This is my journey. I have sinned, I have asked G-d for forgiveness and sought him for a new way to live. It's all I can do. An honor him and his patience with me.
I need to spill just a bit on here tonight. I had been talking back and forth with my daughter today regarding our family. Once again she talked about the emotional abuse that I suffered at the hands of my H. She is extremely clear that he tried to mold me into something and when I didn't become "that person" he went to find someone who he could control.
Crack ho with hep C, can't work, probably doesn't have a high school degree, twice divorced, mother of 3, 47 with children ages (31, 20 and 21). The 20 year old has 3 children by 19. I'm not thinking this is high society maiden here.
Here are some of the conversations we had today over email before she wrote the last one. "okay mom just as long as you know that. I know and the boys know that you love dad but as the three of us we know that dad isnt right for you. so as your kids we want whats best and makes you happy and dad isnt that person. he might be deep down but when and why he comes out of being retarted we will never know. its time to move and live your life." "we just dont think you need to be in a metally abusive relationship mom". "no i think always i think that dad tried everything to modle you and when you didnt work with him in the way he needed he went and found someone else to control" " yeah we believe that we believe that he is a controling person. i mean look he emails me out of the blue trying to get info from me cause he dosent have control anymore."
Here is her email to me, "So i have been thinking about this. mom even if dad comes home nothing will be the same everything will be different. your not going to be able to trust him and your going to have problems there. your not going to be able to sleep with him cause he might not have his attention on you. you might love him and what not but you know deep down nothing is going to be the same. and the family will always be divided. OS will never forgive him and i'm not thinking its okay for me either. you need to truly think that if dad comes home is that the best option for you and your son. the two of us can handle it. but know that holidays will never be the same. and more than likely it will only be you YS and dad. mom is that what you want a life where you cant trust your husband and have little to no commication with OS or me. i'm not saying i wouldnt talk to you but i wont go and see him and i wont be at events with him. i believe and take it from me When BF cheated i thought i would never get over it. i was always wanting to know where, what who and when. my relationship suffered so much because i couldnt get over me being insucure about my relationship. mom your marriage cant do that. Dad will never be faithful. the difference between BF and dad is that Dad slept with her and hide it for a year then left. BF kissed her then told me the next night and wanted to make it work. i love you and want whats best for you. I will only talk about this once and this is the last time okay mom cause we need to move on. but dad coming is not the answer and will not be good for this family. love you DD"
I don't how to respond or if I should let her vent. She is mad at WH because after 6 months he finally made contact inquiring about her life. And she is pissed and hurt. She doesn't trust him and thinks he is looking for information.
I feel like I am being torn in part because I want my H to come home, but how can I choose it over my children and yet.... I didn't create this.
I'll pray about it, give it to G-d and see what happens. But some moments I want to take something and slap WH but good.
It's weird. I'm shifting inside somehow. I don't feel the need to fix this. I just feel the need to get it here, and leave it. I trust G-d to work through this. I know he has a plan for me. I know what I hope for, but I've grown....
Edit Reason: she didn't learn spelling from me... that's all her father.
Queenie, I think she says some important things. You don't have to make the decision about wh coming home. He is the only one who can make that decision. But, how long are you going to live in the limbo in which you now find yourself?
Queenie, I think that your daughter says this because she loves you and wants what is best for you. Another reason is of course that she is hurt and mad at her dad but my impression is that she truly wants to help you.
And I think that she is right. You don't want your WH to come home. You want your husband, your children's father, to come home. You protect yourself from your WH with plan B and you don't let him close unless he fulfils your conditions and shows you real changes. If he chooses to be that kind of man I am sure that he will also choose to be a real father for your children.
If he does not change you have to let go of your hope and it will happen eventually. It is a process inside of you and it will take the time it takes.
Just a few words from me. I am happy that you have children that care about you.
I think Why nailed it. Your children are looking at WH as he is now, not the man that Queenie would allow back into her life. I understand where you're coming from Queenie. My daughter was sooooo angry at my WH and when I let him come home she was fit to be tied. She wanted NOTHING to do with him and couldn't believe that I would subject myself to his crap again. She felt that way because she loves me.
It's obvious that your kids love you too.
Hold out for what you need. A repentent, remorseful and loving husband. If WH can't or won't raise up to the challenge, then you have your answer.
I admire your tenacity for holding out. I don't think I would have made it as long as you have without blowing it. But how long you hold out is your call. You'll know in your heart when it's finally time to cut that tie.
We're here for you, whether you continue to hold fast or whether you decide to finally divorce and be DONE with the unknown.
This is your life Queenie. You get to decide how to live it.
It astounds me how perceptive and caring my children are. You see, I always believed that my H was the everyday dad, the more involved with his children than me. Evidently I was wrong. When this first started I couldn't imagine my kids not making it without their dad, but honestly not only have they made it, but emotionally in many ways they have thrived.
WH's behavior was so destructive in so many ways. But because we believed him to be a man of morals, upstanding, devoted to our family we just never thought.... Three months before D-day, but DD and I got into a horrible altercation that eventually left me filing for a restraining order against her. It was surreal I can tell you. I couldn't believe what was happening and didn't understand how things had escalated the way they had. I didn't believe I would ever talk to her again. And my heart was hurting so deeply.
It was two days after D-day when she and I reconciled and started talking. It was after D-day that I started hearing from my children how their dad "played" with them, but that I taught them about life.
I kept fighting what they were saying.
You are all so right. There is NO WAY WH can ever come home. At one time I would have taken him, but not anymore. He is destructive, dangerous and deadly to ME...
How long do I hold on. Not sure.... As I faced last week, I am divorced from him spiritually, emotionally and now continueing the mentally part. I am getting stronger and stronger and it seems that WHY G-d won't let him come home is repeated again and again. He is protecting me. G-d knew I was dying inside because I was trying EVERYTHING to make H happy. Ultimately it didn't work and my DD is right, he found someone he could control more than me. The ironic thing... I would have given him anything and my complete life if he had just given me the chance.
I have the most amazing kids in the world. Actually I'm sure they aren't any more amazing than your own kids. But I'm so blessed and so grateful that I have been able to walk through this with them and become closer to them. I remember when I wanted to DIE and it was my responsibility for THEM that kept me going.
Gosh, you have come so far, and in many ways you are way ahead of me. I admire you.
I agree, your kids don't want the WH back either, but I bet they would welcome the H back. Look at it this way, you got the H (his best years) and she gets the WH (obviously his worst years). Let her keep him. It's a sick, pathetic relationship. I'm looking at it that way too. I had the wonderful, good guy. She gets the liar and cheater. I don't want the liar and cheater. Glad she has him.
You do have the most amazing kids. I had one shot and blew it
No you DIDN'T. My kids are great kids because of G-d. Not because of anything I did or didn't do. It was russian roulette raising children. So don't you please blame yourself for her poor choices. She is an ADDICT. She is SICK. She is a CHILD of G-D. He has a plan for her and nothing you did or didn't do could have stopped this.
All you can do is keep being her role model, walk in faith, pray for her and love her in a way that is G-d like and most of all, dont' you BLAME yourself.
You gave her life. It's her life to live as she chooses, just like it's WH's life to screw up as he chooses.
I pretty much agree with Queenie though I believe G-d gives us the freedom to make choices and some of our choices are good/some bad. When we make those choices, we endure the consequences whether good or bad. So, sometimes, in our selfish/broken ways, we make choices which are not in keeping with His plan and will. However, He is always there for us.
How are you? I lost your email address. Do you still have mine? Drop me a line if you want.
I'm doing ok. Everyday I continue to heal and learn about myself. I learn how to accept the blessings, be grateful for what I have and appreciate G-ds protection over me.
It's been 18 months since D-day, 8 months since PBL and not one word has exchanged between us. WH is started to reach out to his kids, but as for me NOTHING.
I love the man who used to be my H, I have grown where I don't want WH home anymore, but I hold hope that G-d can reach my husband, the father of my children and bring him home one day.
I've reached places of content and acceptance that I couldn't possibly have imagined. I have built a relationship with G-d that is the most important entity in my life and I am able to imagine that one day I will be healed and whole and the woman that G-d waited patiently to develop. How awesome is that.!!!!
Queenie; I thought you had changed jobs because I sent you an e-mail about two months ago, maybe you overlooked it. Anyway, I will shoot you an e-mail tomorrow cuz I have your e-mail address at work.
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It's weird. I'm shifting inside somehow. I don't feel the need to fix this. I just feel the need to get it here, and leave it. I trust G-d to work through this. I know he has a plan for me. I know what I hope for, but I've grown....
I feel exactly the same way. It took me a lot but I finally could let go and let God. It was hard.....but I agree with you that this feeling is weird. This does 't mean that I quit on my H. On the contrary I think I am praying and fasting for my M more than ever. This just means that I've come to understand that this is my valley and I have to go through it, there is no short cuts, no begging or pleading God to end it. I absolutely HAVE to go through it period. In the end this is going to work better for me, because like you said, God has a plan for us....we just have to be patient and wait on him.
No, haven't changed jobs, but what I did get about two months ago was a new computer and vista operating system that isn't always as giving of emails as my old system. I usually am very accountable to my emails, so if I don't respond, I didn't get it.
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This just means that I've come to understand that this is my valley and I have to go through it, there is no short cuts, no begging or pleading God to end it. I absolutely HAVE to go through it period.
This is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH....
We have to walk through it so we can heal and become who G-d wants, so that he can bless us. No short cuts, no easy way out. We didn't listen before and now we get to pay the consequences and learn.
At least we are learning instead of still running.
Lord, make me a channel for thy peace - that where there is hatred, I may bring love - that where there is wrong. I may bring the spirit of forgiveness - that where there is discord, I may bring harmony - that where there is error, I may bring truth - that where there is doubt, I may bring faith - that where there is despair, I may bring hope - that where there are shadows, I may bring light - that where there is sadness, I may bring joy. Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted - to understand, than to be understood - to love, than to be loved. For it is by self-forgetting that one finds. It is by forgiving that one is forgiven. It is by dying that one awakens to Eternal Life. Amen. TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 99
No matter where I am in my spiritual growth, the St. Francis prayer helps me improve my conscious contact with the God of my understanding. I think that one of the great advantages of my faith in God is that I do not understand Him, or Her, or It. It may be that my relationship with my Higher Power is so fruitful that I do not have to understand. All that I am certain of is that if I work the Eleventh Step regularly, as best I can, I will continue to improve my conscious contact, I will know His will for me, and I will have the power to carry it out.
guys in tight pants.....slapping each other on the behinder
And waiting for the balls to be slipped out. :MrEEk:
So it was AWESOME. ABSOLUTELY AWESOME. I found out where the team was, what movie place they went to and that was so cool. I got to the game early. The seats were beyond belief awesome and they WON. It was close, they could have lost it, but G-d was so good to me for this weekend. I have looked forward to this since April. Well worth the anticipation and wait.
That sounds truly awesome and worth waiting for. I am glad that you had the chance to watch the game. I can imagine you in the club seats, cheering for your team, glowing with joy.
It's happening, the healing and living a new life really are happening. I'm changing. I'm moving forward, I'm imagining my life without what's his name.
My children are healing as well. We are laughing, we are talking, we are sharing, we are joking, we are accepting, we are spending time together.
And yet, we have been forever changed in so many ways. I was gone all weekend from my boys and I couldn't wait to get home to them last night. I can't even begin to understand how a parent can leave their children for their own happiness on a long term basis.
My boss invited me to her house for Thanksgiving, but the boys didn't really want to go or actually me either, so we were going to stay at home. But today, my DD has talked the boys into going over to her BF's father house for Thanksgiving. The boys want to go so I said yes. So we are all going to be together, while WH has crack ho all to himself.
I watched football tonight with my youngest son, then OS brought his HS friend over who was home from college. We were laughing and talking... these are the memories that my kids will remember.. How I was crushed and found the strength through G-d and here to get up each point by point and find a way to live again.
I'm happy inside, I'm free inside. The doubts linger, the questions remain, the healing continues and the future is getting brighter.
Thank you so much Mark, Luna and Rin, I would NEVER have survived this if it weren't for here. NEVER EVER.....
Rin, how are you?
This morning I really realized the enormity of just sitting on the couch, cross stitching, watching football, Prison Break and then Boston Legal and just being with my son.
There was no hurt, no sadness, no what ifs... Just normal, quiet evening at home as a family, although different. I am so blessed. I have my children, I have the respect and love and I have given them the solid ground to move forward and somehow create something "normal"..
How AWESOME.... for G-d.... Because his patience and his belief in me that I could walk through this and one day, have it be ok to just be at home.......
Just normal, quiet evening at home as a family, although different.
It's what's called around here...learning to accept and live the 'new' normal. Things are not the same as before, nor will they ever be ... and realizing that it doesn't necessarily mean 'bad'....just 'different'.
Work at creating more of those moments...eventually it will 'tip' the balance away from the 'painful' ones. At least, that's how I do it.
...and you got one thing more going for you...your SKINS!
Hearing you say that puts me in a better frame of mind too. I'm so happy that you have made it this far. Oh, for sure, there is a long way yet to go but you have come so far.
I'm happy inside, I'm free inside. The doubts linger, the questions remain, the healing continues and the future is getting brighter.
I think this is the best thing I've read on your thread,,,ever!
This is an honest, true, Goddess Style Success story! Yes, you have had a great deal of help & support from some of the most awesome people ever to grace our world. But do not ever forget that it comes down to YOU having done the things necessary to bring yourself to this place. You've worked hard, kept the faith, trusted Him, and are so much more now than you ever imagined.
I have to chuckle, the OLD me would say oh you are too kind, I don't deserve it, but you are RIGHT. I walked in FAITH, I trust HIM and listened to all of YOU. I didn't think getting to this place was possible. And I know it's not over yet.
My heart still loves the schmuck, but I also don't live every waking moment wanting to hear about him or when I do get news like someone driving by their trailer and saying that it looks sad there or not happy, I don't react. I don't do that self-pity, trying to fix it crap. I just leave it with G-d and continue my prayers to listen to him for my journey.
There comes a point when your sense of humor has to take over or commone sense, please... dinner with a selfish man who abandoned his family along with crack ho. Or dinner with my children, laughing, loving and living.
So my DD says to me today in many emails her restrictions for me tomorrow. We are going to her BF's father's house. I am going to a place where I know no one, there is no turkey, which is one of the two items ONLY that OS likes, I'm not allowed to talk about their dad, I'm sitting at a table that is going to say Christian grace, and I'm supposed to be on my best behavior. Is this what you are asking DD? Oh yes, have a problem. No, not at all. I can't wait to spend the day with you and keep creating memories.
G-d is good and I'm so thankful I was humbled enough to fall back into his grace and be his servant so I can remember what's most important in life.. Family and living life.
You will make your DD proud with your grace and dignity. You will have loving children and gracious friends who have invited you into their home. Christian, Jew, whatever...., no turkey? who needs it anyway. This is a day to enjoy good food, good company, your family and friends. I can tell you that it will beat being with a crack ho. You are the lucky one my dear friend.
I think I remember serving lasagna one year for Thanksgiving. I can be thankful any day and with almost any food on the table. As for the prayer, could you offer to say a Hebrew one, also? I know that, at my house, I would allow you to do so. In fact, I have often offered everyone at the table to say a blessing as they wished.
Happy Evening everyone. I hope you all are enjoying your day. I had a wonderful day with my three children. As I read what you all wrote, it occured to me that I might have offended many of you by my remark. First, I apologize if I did. I never meant to hurt or offend anyone.
Second, as my healing strengthens, so does my sense of humor. I was being cute or funny when I was writing to recap to my child what her specifications were. I didn't mean to imply that I was anything less than grateful that she would think of me to want us around.
There was a lot of drinking and that was somewhat hard for me, but this was important to my children and that's what it was about. Getting out of myself, not feeling sorry for myself, but loving my kids enough to want to make this day special for them. I believe they had a good time.
We were probably 45 miles from home and actually there was someone there who I know from one of my AA meetings. It was pretty funny. We were invited back for Christmas Eve. I'll leave it up to the boys as to what they want to do.
At first they said no, but then OS, says we have never celebrated a Christmas Eve, so I think we are going to.
What I am most thankful for is that G-d didn't give up on me. He needed me to grow up and change my ways and understand that I was not living a life with G-d in it and I was on borrowed time until something disastrous happened to bring me to him. I need to be grateful that I listened and grasped it this time. Or who knows what else he might have put in my life.
Last year at this time, I couldn't face this day. Today I celebrated and the success I had was because of G-d, my hard work, but your patience and guidance and belief in me to keep me moving when I didn't want to.
My prayer is that you all had as good a holiday as possible. If you are in pain, you let the prayers in tonight a little closer, because I will be praying for you. And if you are recovering, please love on your spouse and KNOW that in the end all that matters is the love you have between you. Because I will always hope for that second chance to show my H how much I love, admire and want him home.
Queenie, at least I was not offended. I hope nobody else was either. And I completely got that you were funny when you wrote about your daughters "restrictions". I had similar discussions with my dad when I was younger, as a young woman you are so anxious to make a good impression and you want everyone to like each other.
I am glad that you had a great day and I am so impressed by how far you have come and by your faith. You inspire me!
I was being cute or funny when I was writing to recap to my child what her specifications were.
...got it....no probs on this end!
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Last year at this time, I couldn't face this day. Today I celebrated
...I am glad to see you can look back and see how far you have come. This is how we know we are on the right track, and are changing the 'momentum'...somehow.
I wasn't offended. I was just concerned about what I thought was your distress. I'm glad you had a good time and that they were comfortable enough to invite you back. My children and I have gone to a couple of Hannukah celebrations and had a good time. And we've enjoyed Bar Mitzvahs.
Hope your Thanksgiving was great. I think your kids will enjoy going to Christmas Eve. Years ago we had a Jewish friend and her kids over for Christmas Eve. We played dreidel with Christmas MnM's and birthday cake (for the baby Jesus )
It was great fun.
Let's get together some place out of the way during the winter break. I don't want to try to fight the crowds at a mall...
I have had the most amazing weekend. I am so grateful to G-d. Oh my gosh... So grateful. He has been so gracious and giving to me.
Thanksgiving was great, a little awkward at times because of the drinking but I just prayed and asked G-d. Then on Friday my niece and her husband came over from Eastern WA with their two kids. They are the ones who just got married last year, H was busted for cheating...drama... drama... drama...
I did take quite the opportunity to chew their butts out about life, marriage and commitment. I tried to work on them from MB principles explaining stuff and then gave them the book Surviving An Affair. I hope it does some good. Clearly they love each other, but they are young, prideful, immature and making all the mistakes....
My DD came over and we all went to the mall and saw my OS. His boss told me how much my son loves me, how much he talks about me and how he has such respect for me. I was overwhelmed. She said he was a great kid and she is such impressed with how often he talks about me. I was so flippin touched.
Then we walked around the mall and I could feel that sadness stirring inside, you know, the stuff that makes us still hurt inside. It hasn't been around for a while now, but its still there, strong and dangerous. But I am no longer that destroyed woman who lets it go down the tunnel, I fight it today.
Everyone left, I decided to go to services and on the way, I did allow myself the ability to cry my heart out for the sadness of what ifs. Or how could a man, leave his family... Just walk away from a family like he has. But then I have to remember he is just sick. Enough of him.
So I went to services, then stopped off at a wreath party on the way home. Yesterday woke up from a rough dream on drinking, went to an AA meeting, came home and crossstiched all day, then went to a party at my friends house with my son.
Today I am watching the Redskins play Giants, Sean Taylor was inducted into Redskins Hall of Fame, I got to see it online and I am preparing a Thanksgiving dinner for all my children who will be here later.
I have spent all weekend with my kids, creating memories, learning things I probably didn't want to know about, like the fact my YS admitted to smoking pot, but I'm looking to G-d for guidance and counting my blessings.
Queenie - we are all very blessed. I was reading about the Rabbi and his wife who were killed in Mumbai. Very sad. But somehow their son got put out in the hallway, and his crying alerted a cook who unboarded her door and rescued him.
Yes Believer, so sad. And yet, a ray of light from G-d.
This is the FOURTH attempt at posting. I have spent a large time on Luna's thread catching up on her and I'm overwhelmed. I'm sick to death in my heart. I feel like giving up.
I mean really, why are we holding out for something that what... will be hard at best, long to say the least and possibly recovered in the end. I should go gamble, my odds of winning it big at a table seem bigger today.
She is hurting, she is walking through the emotions with such grace and openness to learn the lessons and keep willing to look at what could be.
I want to hurt someone for her pain. I want her to have some peace at heart. I want Chai to have peace at heart. I want Bugs to have peace at heart.
The four of us.... ours walked away and I forget who said, the opposite of love isn't hate its indifference and that's what we have. Not passion of hate, just NOTHING. Don't we deserve the passion of angery to say the least from them, but to just walk away and leave us hanging, like they are still controlling us in their own way. I want to spit, I want to scream.
I want my H to flipping come home. But why, he will have new ways, he will fold his underwear different, he will use different toothpaste, different soap. I know... I sell Amway... he isn't buying that. :crosseyedcrazy:
He ABANDONED his children. He took our M and threw it away for WHAT, his "MORE than being married to his best friend". How can I possibly be stupid enough to keep believing that A will end. He has been with her for over 2 1/2 years. My Plan B, what did it accomplish... Out of sight out of mind.
Is there anyone who can think of a reason why not to thrown in the towel and just give up. D him and find someone who wants to be with me. Because he clearly doesn't want to have anything to do with me.
I'm sorry for my slide backwards, but I want to help Luna and Chai and I don't know what to say or do....
Believer, I don't doubt your statistics, and I have NEEDED to hear this from you for so long.
But come on.... what Chai said.... about who they are today. Their habits are different, they do things so different, they are like strangers.
And not to mention.... NOTHING.... he has done NOTHING but ignored me, walked away, made life financially hard and been completely indifferent.
I know he isn't happy, I know he isn't living the life of a fantasy, other than believing he can have a life based on trust, openness and honesty.
I feel like catgirl.... he is living the day to day life with her and just staying there. I'm sorry, I just have felt Luna and Chai's pain so deeply. I want to take it from them and give them hope and I don't know what to do to help them. I'm frustrated.
Help me grab something to hold on to. Is he so much the same as any other affair, is his OW just like anyone else. I don't even know what I am looking for to be honest.
Hope.... maybe... he belief that G-d is still working hard to bring him home.
I got a phone call today by that man who I was interested in me all those months ago. He is still interested and wants to take me to the movies. Is this my struggle, that I want to be with someone who wants me instead of treats me like a piece of garbage or worse yet, doesn't even acknowledge that I exist.
My DD came over and we all went to the mall and saw my OS. His boss told me how much my son loves me, how much he talks about me and how he has such respect for me. I was overwhelmed. She said he was a great kid and she is such impressed with how often he talks about me. I was so flippin touched.
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I have to chuckle, the OLD me would say oh you are too kind, I don't deserve it, but you are RIGHT. I walked in FAITH, I trust HIM and listened to all of YOU. I didn't think getting to this place was possible. And I know it's not over yet.
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Second, as my healing strengthens, so does my sense of humor.
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What I am most thankful for is that G-d didn't give up on me. He needed me to grow up and change my ways and understand that I was not living a life with G-d in it and I was on borrowed time until something disastrous happened to bring me to him. I need to be grateful that I listened and grasped it this time. Or who knows what else he might have put in my life.
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Last year at this time, I couldn't face this day. Today I celebrated and the success I had was because of G-d, my hard work, but your patience and guidance and belief in me to keep me moving when I didn't want to.
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It's happening, the healing and living a new life really are happening. I'm changing. I'm moving forward, I'm imagining my life without what's his name.
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My children are healing as well. We are laughing, we are talking, we are sharing, we are joking, we are accepting, we are spending time together.
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And yet, we have been forever changed in so many ways. I was gone all weekend from my boys and I couldn't wait to get home to them last night. I can't even begin to understand how a parent can leave their children for their own happiness on a long term basis.
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I watched football tonight with my youngest son, then OS brought his HS friend over who was home from college. We were laughing and talking... these are the memories that my kids will remember.. How I was crushed and found the strength through G-d and here to get up each point by point and find a way to live again.
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I'm happy inside, I'm free inside. The doubts linger, the questions remain, the healing continues and the future is getting brighter.
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There was no hurt, no sadness, no what ifs... Just normal, quiet evening at home as a family, although different. I am so blessed. I have my children, I have the respect and love and I have given them the solid ground to move forward an
And that is something YOU have to decide for yourself. When that hope is no longer there and you've fought till you can't fight any more...
When you don't miss him and go whole days without even thinking about him...
When you believe that if he came home you wouldn't want him there any more because of what he has done to you and your family...
When you just feel like there is nothing more for you to do and can walk away with no regrets no matter what he does in the future...
When you can say, "My EX-husband" and mean him...
That is when you move on and never look back.
But only you can decide when that time has come.
I'm praying for guidance. I'm praying for what G-d wants from me. If I could do this I would. But I can't...
I can't say any of those things. Stupid me, still remembers the man I M, not once but twice. Stupid me understands the mind and actions of an addict.
Stupid me would still want a man home that even though was abusive, was a good man, but someone so sick that I want to support him to heal. Not fix him, but support him as his wife.
Now, G-d seems to have other plans.... I just wish I knew them...
I just wanted to say how much I relate to your posts. My divorce is almost two years old and I still struggle with the things on Mark's checklist.
I kept hearing "Wait until your mind and heart are in synch". I didn't wait and I will always have that nagging "What if..." in my head. I am just not sure how reasonable it is to wait until you are actually relieved to be getting a divorce. No matter how peaceful and functional my life is now, I will always prefer to have kept my marriage intact. I will never (I don't think) be "happy" about the divorce.
Even after my exWH's affair ended, he was skirt chasing again and never seemed to even consider returning to his family. That was a painful blow. He complained about being alone when there was this family he had deserted that would have welcomed him like a puppy on a child's birthday.
I think that has been the slowest part of this for me. Getting to the healthy place where he would not be welcomed with open arms, but with a very cautious skeptism(sp?). I will not be second best again, I will not be the "because I was tired of being alone, default partner".
My ex is now living with a different woman, not OW and there is no telling how many were in between OW and this GF. But he never gave me a morsel of kindness, he has been nothing but a liability to my family since he walked out the door over three years ago.
His best friend once told me that exWH would NEVER admit he had made a mistake, NEVER apologize, NEVER show remorse. Best friend was right (exWH never sees best friend either, he dismissed everyone from his former life).
Do what you need to do so you can say that "I did everything I knew to do to save my marriage". That is my regret, I divorced against my better judgement. My lawyer told me that the judge would ask me if this is what I wanted and I lied and said "yes" through my tears. I was sobbing in the court room lying to a judge about my desire to end my marriage.
So I live with that regret even though exWH's behavior since then should make me relieved that I made that decision. (I was going to type 'the right decision' but I still can't bring myself to do that.
Maybe some day my heart and mind will be 'in synch'.
So I live with that regret even though exWH's behavior since then should make me relieved that I made that decision. (I was going to type 'the right decision' but I still can't bring myself to do that.
Maybe some day my heart and mind will be 'in synch'.
Thank you for being so thoughtfu] of my situation. I would end your pain too if I could, but it isn't that easy. As much as I don't want my M to end either, realistically, I would have a hard time recovering at this point unless WH was the poster boy for remorse. We will both get to the place that God has intended us to be when the time comes. If we end up D'd, I'm sure that it will be a wound that never completely heals. How could it? The whole thing effed up our lives so badly that it would be impossible to totally heal from it. The scars will be there forever. The trick is getting to a point where we don't notice them as much.
And Plan B? I was not educated enough on Plan B. I looked at it as the way to end the A and R the M. NOT. It had the total opposite effect for my WH. In fact, he has been hostile and totally dark beating me at my own game. It's OK though, because Plan B had the intended effect on me. It gave me peace. Sometimes I think maybe I did the wrong thing in doing it, but as I look back I now realize that WH was never going to be honest with me about it all, and he was always going to try to cake eat. Who knows how far it would have gone. I hate to think this way, but whenever I watch 48 Hours I wonder. Too dark to go there. Sorry.
Jean, I will be in the same sitch - in front of the judge. What would have happened if you had said "NO?" In my case, since he filed I don't know that I have a choice. I will say "NO" but it won't matter. At least that's my understanding.
And Queenie, not sure about the whole dating thing. I decided that I wouldn't date until officially D'd. That could be a while at the current rate. I guess I'm just not in any big hurry. I see people out there trying on dates just like clothing. If you aren't sure what you are looking for, you can make anything fit. I saw it in my own brother. Twice. I won't make that mistake.
Just take as long as it takes. Sorry to say that some people can never get out of the rut an continue their lives. Just be watchful for that situation.
Queenie - I don't post much, but I read your thread regularly and want you to know you've been in my thoughts many times over the last two years...
Here's a bit of Kayla wisdom that she learned from someone else's walk of life... Her little sister.
The wisdom: Be careful of the questions you ask, particularly "WHY ME" type questions when you feel your life lacking of that fulfillment. Because our soul always finds the answer somehow and that path is not a pretty one.
The experience: My little sister had two guys head over heels in love with her. The bad boy. and the good boy. They were best friends, and the only thing keeping the bad boy from juvie hall was the good boy's influence. They met, the good boy was in love with her almost from the beginning. The bad boy was full of himself. Didn't care about the good boy or the girl. He decided he could win her over. So he did.
She got pregnant 1/2 way thru senior year of H.S. They got married in a casual wedding. Good boy was still a good friend to both of them, but went and continued on the good boy path, so was separated by a two year stint serving G-d as a missionary. For a time, under my sister's influence, the bad boy seemed to change. By the time the baby was born, they were both going to church, and he was working a job instead of stealing from his employer. It looked like they were going to make it. On their first anniversary, they had a special wedding ceremony to make their vows more permanent.
Two months after that special ceremony, bad boy was back to bad boy stuff. Stealing from my parents, stealing from his employer. Chasing a 13 yr old girl and flaunting that relationship right in front of my sister.
Now to the point - the WRONG QUESTION to be asking G-d - to save the marriage, just because of the special ceremony. Or more specifically, "If G-d loves me, then why didn't He save my marriage?
My sister didn't dig into her faith. She wanted her faith handed to her. She didn't recognize the sweet little baby boy who adored her and my parents who took her in and protected her from more thefts and abuse from her bad-boy husband. She didn't or couldn't see the heart of the young man who loved her deeply and knew the person she was before bad-boy had wounded her - was still in there...
When G-d didn't answer her prayer the only way SHE would accept, she took a tail spin on life; their divorce was final on their 2nd anniversary. Drugs, alcohol. One boyfriend after another. She gained a bad reputation in a matter of months. Then the unthinkable happened - as if the rest of the story isn't traumatic enough. Her little boy almost died. Instead of coming back to God and recognizing that she had to fight for her faith, she spun out further, more drugs, abuse, abortion, and on and on it went.
Instead of counting the blessings that she had been given, she counted the one loss (and her x was such a loser, if she even once woke up from her raging at G-d, she would recognize that as a gift too). She recognizes now only the "loser" part of the equation. She doesn't get the message of love and being protected that I know was there for her to see, if she had lifted her eyes to it.
Even after everything she'd done, the good boy was still in love with her and would have taken her back in a heart beat. But sister was no longer the girl he fell in love with and I believe G-d moved her out of his way rather than have him follow her path.
Be careful of focusing on the one thing you don't have. Garth Brooks sings about unanswered prayers - to be grateful for them. Humbly accepting that G-d has a bigger picture in mind than we can see, is what inspired the 23rd Psalm as well as other sacred music. There's a poem written by John Henry Newman
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"Lead, Kindly Light, amidst th'encircling gloom,
Lead Thou me on! The night is dark, and I am far from home, Lead Thou me on! Keep Thou my feet; I do not ask to see The distant scene; one step enough for me."
Hmmm, I have come up with so many different things that could happen to help me "get over it". Finally, I realized that no external thing could happen, it would just have to take as long as it takes.
One thing I do remind myself, my exWH is NOT someone I would date, if I were in a dating mood. He has NOTHING to offer my family except a genetic connection and my kids think he's a fun guy. I can not say he would be a good leader for my family since he has not acted in a way that would lead me to believe that. He still has a negative impact on my family with his negligence to some of his grown up responsibilities.
So I have come to the conclusion that I am not upset about losing him as a man, I think I am just upset about being dumped. And then I ask myself, why do I care that this man whom I have no respect for doesn't like me??
It is just insulting, that is all, I will learn to live with that.
I do hurt for my kids, they are still negatively impacted and that will never change, but all I can do is be mindful of the negative impact of divorce and try to conteract it the best I can.
So, for you Queenie... do you have a mental list of things that will help you decide. Are there signs you are looking for. If the A ended and he moved on to another OW, what would that mean? Did you give yourself a 2 year minimum for planB? I am just curious how other people judge their readiness.
One thing that I did do. Several months after I filed (I was not in a hurry to get a court date), I did tell WH that I was dropping the divorce. It forced him to counter file. I needed him to take some action, not just be the guy who didn't know what hit him. So once he counterfiled, that did help, I had felt guilty for filing even though I did it to set up the temporary support since I was a SAHM.
If people really do just know when it is time, then I jumped the gun. Do I think it would have mattered, no. Even if we were still legally married, I am pretty sure he wouldn't have come back.
So what do you need to come to peace with where you are?
Remember when the people of Israel had just left Sinai? They had just received the greatest gift God had ever given to anyone. He had given them The Law. Not only that, but He had restored the Commandments to them after they had been destroyed in anger over their turning back to the gods of Egypt instead of waiting on Him.
So now they went forward toward the land promised to their fathers and as they went God provided everything they needed on a daily basis. He didn't just send them on their way, but went WITH them as they went. He led them by day and guarded their flanks by night. He moved just fast enough for the slowest to keep up without ever slowing so much the fastest became impatient.
He gave them the very bread of heaven in the form of manna which He gave to them every day with always enough to get through Shabbat that was received on the 6th day to remind them that He would provide if they would follow His ways.
But some of the people, those who were not part of the "inner" or "elite' group, but still members of the congregation of the Lord and being cared for exactly the same way He was caring for Moses...These people began to complain. (See Numbers 11) They whined not about what they had, but about what they had lost. They complained about having to eat manna every day when they used to have leaks and garlic and spices and fresh fruits back where they had come from.
They cried out that they wanted meat and God was angry with them. In fact He destroyed some of them utterly, but He also gave them what they desired in the form of quail. There were so many quail that they were piled up 3 feet high all around the camp. This was the feast these folks had wanted. It was the type of thing they missed about Egypt. It was why they were unhappy...
But when they ate, it made them sick. It made some so sick that they died...
Sometimes the things we remember and the things we want are those things we no longer have. We desire what we don't have any more and miss the miracle of what God has given us. We forget that back where we were when we had those things, we were slaves. What we remember or think we do, is a distortion. We long for what we THINK we had and only see what we have lost.
But God has done so much for us and is doing even more daily. By longing for what we no longer have, even though it was frankly not so good for us, we risk two things, neither of them good.
First, by looking always for what is gone, we might miss what is here.
Secondly, we risk God losing patience with us and giving us what we want only to find out that it is toxic to us and that is why He has kept it from us. He has really been protecting us from ourselves by not giving in to our desires because He knows what is best and we are merely acting like little children who want a candy bar NOW, even though dinner is almost ready to go on the table.
Queenie, think of what would have happened to you if your WH had decided to not move away. What if he was there every day so that you could try to prove to him how much you love him.
Now suppose that he wasn't committed to ending his affair and was only willing to take from you what you could give while still continuing with C-Ho.
So what exactly is it you miss? Or maybe I should ask it this way; what is it you don't have now that you once did that was real and not simply because you were living as a slave?
What about that time was better than freedom and having God lead you and provide for you every single day of your life? What was better then than the respect and admiration of your children? What about being controlled and having your life twisted around to keep him happy was better than being led by God and seeing your children understanding that you are waiting on Him instead of him...
Queenie, Mark has said so elequoently and lovingly what I have been thinking about you. I tend to be a little gruff in my delivery so I don't post as often as I could. Thank God for the Marks on MB!
You are a chosen one. God has blessed you in so many ways because you are His child. You have made a choice - to seek and chase after God's own heart. In fact, God has been chasing you as well. Turn your eyes away from the past and what was and focus on what is. Blessings abound for you and yours.
WH is lost. He doesn't want to be found. He suffers a greater loss than you, but that's his choice. Your choice is to be healthy and your path has been set before you.
So what exactly is it you miss? Or maybe I should ask it this way; what is it you don't have now that you once did that was real and not simply because you were living as a slave?
Nothing.... I miss the possibility and hope that one day our marriage would have been something amazing. That he would have accepted me for who I was instead of wanting me to be something I wasn't or something that was reduced to a box.
What about that time was better than freedom and having God lead you and provide for you every single day of your life? What was better then than the respect and admiration of your children? What about being controlled and having your life twisted around to keep him happy was better than being led by God and seeing your children understanding that you are waiting on Him instead of him... [/quote] NOTHING....
For me, nothing. But for my kids, I wanted to give them an intact family. But that wasn't healthy. They saw us fighting, they didn't see two people healthy. They saw two sick addicts trying to figure it out without understanding that G-d was missing. I have this silly hope or "dream" that if we had figured it out, we would have finally been happy. But I honestly don't know if that's the truth.
He is the only man I have ever had a relationship with. So it's not like i have a lot of experience here knowing what is acceptable in a relationship or not.
What I know, is that people see a difference in me all the time. Last night, someone commenting I don't cower anymore, or people saying that I am calmer, happier, more at peace, I blossom in life. I'm way happier than I have been for so many years. I have such incredible relationships with all my children. I have a relationship with G-d that was something I KNOW I didn't have before. I don't feel stifled, I feel free. I have more blessings than I can count.
What holds me down or stops me from D is my vow of commitment to him. I promised G-d to love him all the days of my life, to be his wife all the days of my life. But honestly, what if the marriage wasn't what was best for ME...
I absolutely understand what you are saying, ALL OF YOU.. Only I can make the final decision, BUT please help spell it out. If I am way happier, receive more blessings that ever imagined, feel freer, does G-d want me to D WH and see what other blessings he has in store for me even if I took a vow?
A check list you say Jean... before this all happened, I often knew in my heart that I wouldn't have married my husband over if I had to do again. I felt like I settled with him. I felt like there was more in life. BUT.... I made a commitment regardless of the reasons and I chose to make that commitment. I never saw a way out regardless of how unhappy I was.
I figured or hoped we would get it right one day and we would be happy....
If my heart and my mind can get D and be ok. Will G-d forgive me for giving up and moving out for HIS possibilities and life. Not my small box of what I think?
And in the end, what will that be teaching my children? Because they are the ones who need me to be strong and walk in G-ds will and be an example for them?
I am a woman of passion for life, love, adventure, relationships. I'm not a dried up woman, I was in my marriage. I was so unhappy in my marriage because I kept wanting him to just accept me as me and love me for me and stop trying to change me. I wanted him to change and be more like me, but that's wasn't fair to him was it.
Tomorrow I'll wake up and see how much I can accomplish
JUST DO IT!! The BEST YOU that YOU CAN BE!! I want you to "LOOK PRETTY"..as my grandmother would say...at least "a little lipstick"..as she also would say...
I'm not falling asleep as easily as I used to be and getting up in the morning is so hard. I am not getting up early enough to fix myself up.
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Why are you going back over your MARRIAGE at this point?
You have the PRESENT and the FUTURE!!
I'm struggling because I feel like I need to move on and get my freedom. And I don't know what to do?
My future isn't really free until I end my M. I can move on, live a life separate, but having someone to be in a relationship with is on HOLD until I D and heal from that.
I feel different inside. I wasn't able to really look at getting a D because in the back of my mind I kept holding out hope. But look at me, I'm healing, I'm learning to really take care of myself and part of that is being HONEST about my M. I was unhappy. Does that mean I would have gotten D, NO WAY, I would have kept finding a way to make him happy.
But I'm not that person anymore. I'm getting stronger emotionally in so many ways. I wonder if my freedom from this marriage is the last piece of healing for me..... He can't control me.
IMO..and I MAY NOT be GETTING IT..you have ENOUGH to do just WORKING ON YOURSELF..without worrying about making a decision about whether to DIVORCE or NOT...
Why not just FOCUS ON LOVING YOURSELF???
Why is that determined by whether or not you are DIVORCED?
This focus on DIVORCING and analyzing your marriage takes the focus off of YOUR WORK, IMO...
MMMMM.... I need to think about what you are saying. I'm not trying to get out of focusing on me. I'm trying to move forward and let G-d to keep working on me without me stopping him.
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You can BE FREE without getting a DIVORCE...
You must be wanting to DATE or something...
It doesn't seem like you're ready for THAT...
No, I'm not ready to date, but I am ready to be open to what G-d WANTS for me to do.
Now, I won't lie, that guy calling and asking me out on a date, felt NICE and yeah, I wouldn't mind it. But I'm not READY for it.
When YOU have decided it is time to let go, it is time to let go.
I know the question already...
But what if God doesn't want me to divorce?
He has forgiven so much more.
That is why He allows us to divorce for reasons of adultery and sexual immorality. He hates divorce. He hates adultery at least as much and maybe more since one of His top ten has to do with adultery and divorce is only mentioned in passing by comparison.
What if you're wrong?
Ever been wrong before? Did you survive, get over it and move forward anyway? Think God forgave you? (Hint: YEP!)
Part of faith is realizing that if we seek His will and make a mistake, He is willing and able to use even our mistake for His glory.
He doesn't expect us to be perfect. That is His domain entirely. He knows that and loves us warts and all.
God's will is not a place; it is a path.
It isn't an event but a life.
It isn't a destination but a journey.
Why did Israel wander in the wilderness for 40 years? It was because they didn't have faith that God could accomplish His will in spite of their short comings. They were afraid to try to take away the land He was giving them from the "giants" that lived there. It wasn't punishment that kept them wandering but a lesson that they had not learned that they should have known all along since it was by miracles greater than just overcoming giants that had brought them into freedom.
So they wandered around for 40 years until all the doubters were gone. Then they crossed the river at flood stage by a miracle of His hand. They conquered a walled city by having the women and children march around it singing and shouting.
And then they had the worst defeat in the history of Israel. They were utterly routed, lost many men and were demoralized because of one man's sin. After waiting 40 years they still made a mistake.
But God didn't send them back into the wilderness. He didn't say..."OK. If you can't get this right there'll be no promised land for you."
What did He do?
He dealt with that sin separately from all the rest that ever happened, past and future. David sinned many years later. Saul sinned. Even Elijah's faith failed him and yet God used even those sins to establish His will for us today.
What if you divorce and could still save your marriage?
He can and wants to.
But there is one more variable you aren't seeing in all of this.
Your WH has free will as well.
As much as it hurts God, He is letting your WH have things his way.
God knows that the only way your husband returning to you or to HIM will be of any value is if he chooses to return.
So when do you divorce?
When you feel you have done all you can and are ready to move on.
And is it a sign that you are giving up on God if you divorce?
I hardly think so. And even if it is wrong, God can use it for His will and good overall.
And what if your WH has an epiphany and suddenly wants to come home after you are divorced?
Stranger things have happened and I know of a couple that was divorced for almost 20 years and then remarried.
I know another couple that divorced in their 20s, married others before they were 30, both were widowed in their 50s and remarried just before they retired in their 60s.
Is this God's plan for you?
Probably not, since it was His plan for THEM. I don't know what He has planned for you because I am not Him.
One more question I just know you are considering in all of this...
What if you divorce, heal, find someone else and marry them and THEN your WH wants to come home?
It will be your WH's loss.
Will it show that you were too weak to wait for God?
NOPE! It might take you marrying someone else in order for your WH to realize what he has lost and given up and tossed away with so little thought. It will then be a lesson for WH and no longer be about you since that will be his problem and not yours and his lesson to learn.
Does God hate divorce? Yep. Does he allow it? YEP.
How long do you wait for WH? Till you have done all you can.
What if you give up before God does? Why would you even consider yourself to be equal to Him in patience?
Look at the BIG picture here, Queenie.
Was what Hitler did right or wrong? Was his rise to power God's will?
It led to Israel being reborn after almost 2000 years. It led to Oscar Schindler and Corrie ten Boom. It also led to the 1967 war and the bombing of a train station that killed women and children. It also led in part to the war in Iraq and the one in Afghanistan.
So was it God's will?
Psalm 102:11&12
My days are like the evening shadow; I wither away like grass. But YOU, Oh Lord, sit enthroned forever; your renown endures through all generations.
We are merely here for a short time. God is looking at a much bigger picture than we could ever hope to see. He will accomplish His will no matter what we decide to do.
Will I make mistakes?
Without a doubt.
Will that stop Him from doing what His will for the world is?
Not a chance. I'm way too puny for that to happen.
What you are really asking is this: If I divorce and move on and God wanted me to wait longer, would He forgive me any way?
Hasn't he already forgiven things at least as big?
He has for me...
Divorce doesn't even have to be the end of the story, Queenie.
What if it is God's will that you marry someone else and live a life of joy and wealth with a husband that cares for you the way God intended?
Not saying that is His will, just asking what if...
I don't KNOW God's will from beginning to end through all generations. That is why I have to trust Him, because He does know.
I'm not there today, but I am certainly closer and this helps me to keep praying for just G-ds will and know that when that time does come, I'm ok for going in a direction towards G-d.
The truth is, I did all I could do before this happened. My H is unhappy in HIS life. He has DEMONS that are destroying HIM, but he can lie and blame ME. And stupid ME, thought I could take that blame, fix it and bring him home.
There is NOTHING I can do for HIM. I have DONE all I can do. It's completely up to G-d. I went into Plan B when I didn't want to, but knew it was the only way to survive and somehow heal.
I don't want a D, but maybe I'm just hanging on because I'm afraid of the wilderness of freedom.
Regardless, you have given me so much to pray and write on.
The truth is, I did all I could do before this happened.
He has DEMONS that are destroying HIM, but he can lie and blame ME. And stupid ME, thought I could take that blame, fix it and bring him home.
There is NOTHING I can do for HIM.
I don't want a D, but maybe I'm just hanging on because I'm afraid of the wilderness of freedom.
Oh, I truly understand this! That's why I lasted 2.5 years from xh starting the insanity until I filed for a divorce and why it took another year to get to court. Sometimes, you just have to heal enough to be able to accept the challenge of freedom.
Hi Queenie, just been catching up on your thread. You sound good my friend. You have come along way from the Queenie I met when I first came to MB. Still praying for you
How are you? I was reading up on Flick tonight. He sounds good. I miss you girl. How is homelife, children?
I'm doing good for the most part. Have my moments, but that's what they are.... I still love the SOB, and want him to come home, but I don't think about him nearly as often or get that deep deep pain.
Yesterday was just one of those sad days, and I curled up on my bed, cried and asked G-d to hold me. I went to sleep and woke up this morning seemingly better.
Thanks for stopping by... Johnstwin told me you were talking about coming to the PNW. I vote yeah and will move heaven and earth to meet you..
Queenie my love, life is better than I thought possible for the most part. Homelife is ok, the house is a mess, I cant seem to keep it tidy at the moment, everytime I get close something happens.....right now we have xmas stuff every where. DD12 is great, a bit annoying at the moment, she is obssesing (part of her disability) and its wearing me down a bit. The farm is ok, made hay today. Also backed the tractor into the electric fence :RollieEyes: but DH came and fixed it while I was doing the hay thing
I know that love thing, sometimes you could just about wish it didnt happen but I think that its better this way. I know I (and you) are good people that we can find love for someone who did such a [censored] thing. You are good people Queenie
I am so looking forward to coming over, I am gonna meet some MBers and I will be having a holiday with Flick overseas for the first time since we first started having problems. I worked out it will be just after my d-day anti-versary so i think it will be a good thing for me think on if it is a bad trigger day
Yesterday was just one of those sad days, and I curled up on my bed, cried and asked G-d to hold me. I went to sleep and woke up this morning seemingly better.
Hi!! I am sorry that you had a bad day yesterday. I had a bad day yesterday too. I woke up crying b/c I was dreaming with my dad. I saw him walking down a road....as he was walking towards me he asked "Have you and your H reconcile? and I told him "Dad, didn't I told you it was going to take time? He said "ooohhh yeah"....then I starred at him and said...."You have no idea what your support means to me Dad....I love you"....I do not know what this means or if it means anything at all. I woke up crying....and cried all day. By the way, my Dad died in Dec. of 2001, after receiving Jesus as his savior. Praise God. I am praying that your H will come home... do not give up hope!!
I'm doing good for the most part. Have my moments, but that's what they are.... I still love the SOB, and want him to come home, but I don't think about him nearly as often or get that deep deep pain.
Yesterday was just one of those sad days, and I curled up on my bed, cried and asked G-d to hold me. I went to sleep and woke up this morning seemingly better.
QUEENIE
I am so sorry Queenie. If that's how it is...that's how it is. Hang in there.
If we can learn to get 'through' the pain, we can learn to come out on the other side quicker and healthier... the pain hurts, yes, yet it won't kill us... and then, we are continually faced with the question: where to go from here? ....asked to look around and ask ourselves: How CAN I take care of MYSELF, now?
I don't see anything wrong with loving a WS...as long as we can also love OURSELVES enough to know that it would be harmful to be in contact with WS given current state of mind...someone who doesn't really care enough about himself...can't be expected to love or care about anyone else now can they? ...and certainly cannot be counted on for much help...
...and so, forced to learn to COUNT on ourselves!
....at least that's how I see it now...and have still lots to learn.
Shabbat Shalom Mark, :happyhanukkah: This is SO COOL... thank you to the moderators for getting this fixed. I am very humbled that you would do this.. I know it's not just for me, but I sure am appreciative.
Hey Angie, I'm so sorry you are troubled lately. One day at a time, sweets... But go to bed earlier, take a nap during the day or wake up late helps make those days go away faster. I did a lot of them in the beginning.
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I don't see anything wrong with loving a WS...as long as we can also love OURSELVES enough to know that it would be harmful to be in contact with WS given current state of mind.
NO KIDDING.... They are SICK, DANGEROUS, and ICKY!!!!!!
This week's torah portion is on Jacob's ladder. Or staircase as the rabbi mentioned. She did an unusual sermon this week in that she had us meditate as she took us through his journey, but had us imagine it as ours. OK, I was balling my heart out by the end.
It touched me in a way I simply can't explain. Mark, is there some correlation or tie to this torah portion and Psalm 23?
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forced to learn to COUNT on ourselves!
Luna, you are so RIGHT..... we are learning to count on ourselves and doing a darn good job of it.
To me the lesson of Jacob's ladder is that God was there, where he least expected it during his time of trouble. He feared for his life and was alone in the wilderness wondering what would happen when he met his brother only to discover that he wasn't really alone at all, but God was right there with him.
"God was in this place and I did not know."
Q: Where is God when we go through trouble? A: He's right there with us walking through the valley and experiencing our pain right along with us while at the same time planning a feast at His table when we get through to the other side of our problem. He doesn't just point the way for us but holds our hand as we walk through trouble.
Just like G-d has been right along with me this whole time. From the moment I got in the car when WH said he wasn't coming home. I instinctively, before I even crawled into the halls of AA, but asked G-d are you there and he responded. "I'm right here B".
It saved my life and helped me walk through those first days. I just kept asking, G-d are you there? And his reply.... "I'm right here". I will NEVER forget those moments and that time.
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planning a feast at His table when we get through to the other side of our problem. He doesn't just point the way for us but holds our hand as we walk through trouble.
How truly grateful I am for this to be true, because when the other side does happen, he can be there and rejoice with US for his accomplishments and plans seeing fruition.
Well, the last football game I went to with my dad was the Hall Of Fame Bowl in Birmingham, Alabama about 28 years ago. That was a few years before he died. The hometown team we were there supporting is playing in their first bowl game since then....and they are playing here in town. I still have the shaker my dad bought for me in Birmingham. I want to go to the bowl game on 12/31, take my 28 year old shaker, and cheer for the hometown team. For my dad.
Now, the hometown team has had a 6-6 season so I'm not sure they should actually qualify for a bowl but I think I may want to go just for daddy.
Don't know what the hometown pro team did. Don't really care.
Just one of those moments that you know you will get through, but the realization that a marriage is over.
That there is NO HOPE that he will come home. And that I have to somehow live the rest of my life without the man who I promised to spend the rest of my life with.
The reality is I have NO CLUE what's happening over in crack ho land. I have done such a good Plan B. NO CONTACT, NO SIGHTINGS, for the most part, no word. And it's getting my goat tonight. My urge to DO SOMETHING is rearing it's ugly head... :twobyfour: that's for me to knock it off.... :twobyfour:
I know I can build a life without him. I didn't know that before. I know that my children will heal, I didn't know that before.
I don't know if anyone will ever love me in that way again, but I can only hope that G-d has that in store for me.
But the reality.... just plain sucks.
I know G-d will get me through this. I know that G-d has a better plan for all of us, but the destruction, the lack of just a chance.
And yet, I hear you Mark. I am so GRATEFUL for so much. My children, my job, my life. The fact that I do know one day I will be healed inside and moved on.
Just one more level of grieving and getting it out so I can move on more...
Queenie, where is that passage in Isaiah? Oh, I've given it to you before.......
Ah, here it is......Isaiah - that much I knew....I love that Bible software I have.....church bought it for me back when I was doing a lot of powerpoint presentations for worship services.
ISA 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.
ISA 54:6 The LORD will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit-- a wife who married young, only to be rejected," says your G-d.
ISA 54:7 "For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with deep compassion I will bring you back.
As for me......I'm a little freaked....daughter saw a ghost at church tonight. We know there are ghosts in the building and we know who they are. But, she truly believes she saw one tonight. I brought her home and we looked through a very old directory. When we got to one picture, she knew immediately that was who she saw - a man who died years before she was born. She's ok. I'm a bit freaked.
I was getting ready to pick up the bible and just hold it... Thanks Cinders......
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As for me......I'm a little freaked....daughter saw a ghost at church tonight. We know there are ghosts in the building and we know who they are. But, she truly believes she saw one tonight. I brought her home and we looked through a very old directory. When we got to one picture, she knew immediately that was who she saw - a man who died years before she was born. She's ok. I'm a bit freaked.
Ed, Fred, and Reid have all been seen by different people, sane people, good people. They are benevolent entities in the building. They have never been implicated in anything scary. They were respected, valued members of the congregation. Reid died at the building - during a worship service. He was the one she saw....glimpsed him from afar, he was in a dark corridor near a staircase that went up to a hallway where, 12 feet from the top of the stairs, he used to have an office as the church treasurer.
I've heard of people seeing these guys in recent years. It was just startling for her to have seen Reid. What she saw could have been any one of them. But, when I showed her pictures of the three men, from an old directory, she identified him immediately.
Just weirded me out. I'm not afraid. I don't think she was in danger when she followed him. Just strange and weird. Wouldn't have expected her to see him. She never knew any of the men.
Just weirded me out. I'm not afraid. I don't think she was in danger when she followed him. Just strange and weird. Wouldn't have expected her to see him. She never knew any of the men.
I'm not experienced in this at all. I know there are many thoughts out there about ghosts and that people really believe there is a reason it happens.
I can pray and ask G-d to give you clarity on what's happening, but I just don't have any notion on this.
Last night, I dreamed I was sitting in an audience in an auditorium. I was sitting beside Harrison Ford. Everyone in the audience was applauding. Harrison Ford and I were clapping in the Jewish rhythm. The rest of the audience was not.
WHERE did that come from?
I didn't even know that Adam Sandler lists HF as 1/4 Jewish in his Hanukkah song. :RollieEyes:
So, Harrison Ford isn't what amuses me.....the Jewish clapping style was what amuses me....I didn't know clapping was differentiated among religions.
Personally, I'm glad to know I was confident enough to calmly sit beside Harrison and to be clapping in unison with him while everyone else clapped differently.
------- ------- -------- -------
How come everyone else didn't follow our example?
Perhaps that is just another example of my eclectic traditionalism?
I don't know if anyone will ever love me in that way again,
Queenie! Let's hope that no one will ever love you in that way again. Let's hope that someone will love you SO MUCH MORE that they wouldn't dream of leaving you for a skanky, slime infected, germ harboring, skin crawling, crack ho. That's what I hope. Why? Because you are one of the most wonderful individuals that I have ever known and you deserve to be loved WAY MORE than what WH gave you.
Now you girls run along and stop talking nonsense about ghosts, goblins, and Harrison Ford. This is an infidelity forum. Sheesh...
You know, the idea of me doing Jewish clapping with Harrison Ford would not be nearly so funny if I were Jewish.
It's totally, freaky weird that I come home from church, where my daughter had seen a ghost, and I dream I'm doing Jewish clapping with Harrison Ford (who Adam Sandler says is 1/4 Jewish but I didn't know that last night).
Just too strange for words....Only, I'm using words to tell you about it.....
Ladies I've got a funny for you....check out this live puppycam. The puppies are about 8 weeks old. Three have gone to their adoptive homes. Three are left!
I'm good. I seem to be shifting more and more and coming to a place where I am truly looking at my M as honestly as G-d is allowing.
I feel like I've come to the end of the road in wanting my M and yet I still can't imagine my life without my H. But that's the way it is...
There isn't ONE thing on his side that makes me think he will EVER realize or wake up. And yet, it never was about waiting on him, but waiting on G-d to divulge what he needs me to do next.
So I keep praying and praying.....looking for G-ds will and his guidance, not mine.
I find that I hear my children and the complaints and perceptions they had growing up and I'm amazed and saddened that I was oblivious to my H's games and control. I wasn't happy in my M... He hasn't met MY needs for so long. He kept trying to mold me into something I just didn't want to be. I TRIED... and I would have still been TRYING. But who I naturally am isn't what he wants or needs.
So, maybe this was G-ds way of giving me the opportunity to get out and be ok with it. I don't know.
I will always, ALWAYS believe we could have overcome this, but at what cost to ME.
So, I am doing good. I'm just living for G-d and his plan for me today.
Cinders..... they are SO CUTE.... puppycam.... what will we think of next. Affairlandcam?
It occurred to me recently that I have not ever spoken of the HUGE step in taking back my life that I did with respect to the monster.
It hasn't played itself out totally, but the task has been completed and how it ends up is in the courts and G-ds hands.
Months ago, WH called up DD and threatened her to tell me that if I didn't put the cell phone bill in MY name he would turn the phones off. So I calmly called up the company and asked them what my options were. Evidently WH had changed the password and I was NO LONGER able to discuss the account.
So, I looked into getting another account, but it was so hard because that was a connection to WH. Even though he doesn't use the cell phone. Well, it dawned on me one day that WH gave HIS CELL to OW and I WAS PAYING for the bill..
Now, I am slow, and there is still life inside of me for R, BUT I'm not STUPID.....I am already owed over 3500.00 from WH so, last month after MONTHS of my children begging me, I went out and got my OWN cell phone service in my OWN name, with a NEW STATE of the ART phone for FREE. And have stuck WH with the bill.
So, being the still reasonable woman that I am, have gladly taken the bill off of what he owes me. Personally I'm willing to keep him accountable and let him have to deal with the bill and MY MONEY. The service has been cut, and I have sent the bill back to the company saying that WH doesn't live here.
In the real world it may seem small. BUT for ME, this is taking a step in being my OWN person and taking care of MYSELF.... A step to LOVING ME....
I feel like I've come to the end of the road in wanting my M and yet I still can't imagine my life without my H. But that's the way it is...
Just when I think you're finally getting it you turn around and say something like this. What is it going to take for you to stop dreaming about this loser and go out there and get a life. What does this man have to do to awaken you from your foggy fantasy? You are wasting your life away
So, I looked into getting another account, but it was so hard because that was a connection to WH. Even though he doesn't use the cell phone. Well, it dawned on me one day that WH gave HIS CELL to OW and I WAS PAYING for the bill.. .
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Now, I am slow, and there is still life inside of me for R, BUT I'm not STUPID.....I am already owed over 3500.00 from WH so, last month after MONTHS of my children begging me, I went out and got my OWN cell phone service in my OWN name, with a NEW STATE of the ART phone for FREE. And have stuck WH with the bill.
Thanks so much Kick, Luna, Chai, Cinders, Princess,
I really appreciate your support so much.
What a GREAT QUESTION My, I honestly don't know what the final nail in the coffin will be. But I assure you, I am NOT sitting at home, pining for him. I am out, learning about myself, trying to love myself, healing, living life to the fullest and being a good mom to my kids.
I bought into the Harley's notion this is an addiction. WH albeint a monster that I don't want anything to do with, he is and ADDICT... and I just wanted to give G-d every opportunity to bring him home.
And when I live in today... I can TOTALLY live WITHOUT him. It's when I think it's the REST OF MY LIFE, that it still overwhelms me.
I might be foggy and in a fantasy, but in the end, when I do walk away I will KNOW I gave it my best shot.
But My, thanks for the wake up call and very supportive words...
But I assure you, I am NOT sitting at home, pining for him. I am out, learning about myself, trying to love myself, healing, living life to the fullest and being a good mom to my kids.
But My, thanks for the wake up call and very supportive words...
Your welcome, I'm glad you took my post as it was intended. I'm glad you are not sitting ot home. My other point was you ARE living your life without him!
As for the addiction? Well maybe at the beginning of the A ya. But this has been going on for far too long. And even if the A does end, do you think he'll come running back? Lots don't, my exWW included. Probably not. And if he did what would be his motive? Would you want to accept crack ho's garbage?
You this board is full of people who tell you when the A dies the wayward comes running back. Well in the real world that is not the case more often than not. Not all waywards are fogged out zombies. Some are just cold calculating (censored)!
And I wouldn't be waiting for God to bring him home either. After all He did give us free will, just a shame your WH has choosen a life of misery and destruction. The only one who can save you is YOU. It's all about a healthy attitude and realise you deserve better and actually believing it.
A better life awaits.........that is obviously God's path for you.
How are YOU? I hope you are doing good. I know only I will know, or actually G-d will let me know.
But the truth is My is right. It's been so long. Surely the fog can't still be there, just a cold calculating man who threw away his family for something more.
You see, I knew I could hold out for him to come home from OW, but there isn't any guarantee that would happen. I wasn't willing to look at the possibility of him ending the A and not coming home.
I'm not really going to go there tonight. It will bring me down and I work far too hard to keep positive these days.
But the truth is My is right. It's been so long. Surely the fog can't still be there, just a cold calculating man who threw away his family for something more.
You see, I knew I could hold out for him to come home from OW, but there isn't any guarantee that would happen. I wasn't willing to look at the possibility of him ending the A and not coming home.
I'm sooo happy to hear you say this. Queenie, life is too short, don't waste anymore of yours.
We're both doing good. Let's keep it up. I have bad days too, and I also didn't consider that WH wouldn't come back if the A ended, but he didn't. I'll have to work through that, and you may have to at some point too. After what we've been through, it will just be one more step to take.
After what we've been through, it will just be one more step to take.
Just one more step, TOGETHER....
Goodnight, My.... Thanks again.... Reality checks, always hard to swallow at first, but the truth sets me free. The dark, well, that just locks in the pain and I DON'T WANT THAT...
You know, if you end up with no marriage, it can still be a good life. I am living proof.
Marriage was the most important thing I had in life. I dreamed of being married, growing old with my husband and celebrating our life on the porches as we watched our future grow up.
It will take a little more time for me to be ok with not being married. I can handle not being married to the monster.
But not married again? Naw, I'm too much a people person... In G-ds time though, not MINE...
This is not a good night for me...exactly today two years ago my H grab his stuff and went to sleep to another room... I know I deserved it and he had every right to do it... Just wish this had never happened. Wish he would see that I am willing to do whatever it takes for him to heal. Wish,wish,wish.....oh well. There's nothing more I can do...just to stand firm and wait on God. Just like you say all the time...let go and let God.
I work, I am going to school, I am also doing my internship in a shelter for battered women. Although doing my internship has been very tough because I do not think it's a good time due to my sitch at home with my H. I do not like being away from home thinking that I do not know if he believes that I am going to the shelter or not. I have very little time for anything else. I am having a hard time keeping my weight under control because with this whole ordeal I have become an emotional eater. I have gained a lot of pounds since two years ago. Queenie I am not sure if I am answering your question. I hope so.....
You know, if you end up with no marriage, it can still be a good life. I am living proof.
Marriage was the most important thing I had in life. I dreamed of being married, growing old with my husband and celebrating our life on the porches as we watched our future grow up.
It will take a little more time for me to be ok with not being married. I can handle not being married to the monster.
But not married again? Naw, I'm too much a people person... In G-ds time though, not MINE...
Sometimes we get so busy trying to live to G-ds plan for us that we forget to stop and ask him what it is and let him make the big decisions for us. Being married does not make you happy. You make you happy and then you find someone to share it with - friends, neighbours, touching people's lives in Australia! I have a long way to go to accept this myself, but I like writing it down - it almost makes it real.
Marriage was the most important thing I had in life. I dreamed of being married, growing old with my husband and celebrating our life on the porches as we watched our future grow up.
This is how I 'visualized' my future, too, Queenie. And the challenge of 'letting go' of something/someone that was so important to us, and such a big part of our lives, so much so that, to our detriment, it may partly have 'defined' us.... and, when removed...then what happens?
I think that's us.
...so NOW how to learn to enlarge the picture to include other possibilities...and see our future 'otherwise'
To 2m2:
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Being married does not make you happy.
...and this may be part of the underlying problem, a belief that this was needed to make us happy...dependent on something other than ourselves..
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You make you happy and then you find someone to share it with....
...and yes, 2m2, this is a healthier way of going about life... that MANY of us are working on.... thanks for the reminder!
This is the belief that leads to a wayward mindset. It is a belief that anyone we love must make us happy and anyone who does not cannot be truly loved. It is what causes affairs, the looking for happiness rather than being happy...
This is also where many BS fail to grasp Plan A in that many believe the goal of Plan A is to make the WS happy and avoid making him/her unhappy. It leads to becoming a doormat and allowing the affair to continue rather than confronting it and attempting to resolve it.
And then it gets integrated into Plan B by some because they believe that their own happiness came from the WS before the affair. They believe wrongly that it was losing the WS that made them unhappy and that if WS came back they would again be happy.
But if we were happy before the affair we can and will be happy again, with or without the WS. Our unhappiness is not because we lost the WS but because the WS lied, deceived and disrespected us. Our happiness didn't come from them to begin with and it is not theirs to take away from us when they leave.
I work, I am going to school, I am also doing my internship in a shelter for battered women.
WOW, good for you...
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Although doing my internship has been very tough because I do not think it's a good time due to my sitch at home with my H. I do not like being away from home thinking that I do not know if he believes that I am going to the shelter or not.
Angie, do you and your H work on ANYTHING towards recovery? Are you wanting help from people on MB? Maybe there are some suggestions you haven't thought of yet.
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I am having a hard time keeping my weight under control because with this whole ordeal I have become an emotional eater. I have gained a lot of pounds since two years ago. {/quote] I so understand this, maybe asking G-d for help when you want to eat. NOT EASY and NOT WORKING FOR ME... but I keep trying.
[quote] Sometimes we get so busy trying to live to G-ds plan for us that we forget to stop and ask him what it is and let him make the big decisions for us.
I have learned to do this and understand that G-d will reveal it to me as he needs me to KNOW... Not what I WANT.....
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Being married does not make you happy.
No, and before all this happened, I was someone who had a completely fulfilling life. Seems so strange. The perception was that H was WAY MORE dependent on ME and if anyone left the marriage it would be ME. I'm more outgoing, vivacious, full of life and adventure. WAS I WRONG.....
This is how I 'visualized' my future, too, Queenie. And the challenge of 'letting go' of something/someone that was so important to us, and such a big part of our lives, so much so that, to our detriment, it may partly have 'defined' us.... and, when removed...then what happens?
This is the MOST IRONIC part, before D-day, I wasn't defined by my H, I was the happy go lucky "B" who lived life and made the most of every opportunity.
I simply can't understand what happened to ME.... Why did this CRUSH me the way it did. :twobyfour:
Oh well, what happened, happened, how I reacted was how I reacted and now I am growing and learning. I can't change the past, but learn from it and seek G-d for today and my path today...
Angie, do you and your H work on ANYTHING towards recovery? Are you wanting help from people on MB? Maybe there are some suggestions you haven't thought of yet.
Queenie; Can we talk about this over the phone? I would really like to know what are you talking about.... I will e-mail you with the phone number right now.
This is the belief that leads to a wayward mindset. It is a belief that anyone we love must make us happy and anyone who does not cannot be truly loved. It is what causes affairs, the looking for happiness rather than being happy...
Without a DOUBT this is my monster's issue.
He needed me to make him happy and it was NEVER my job to do that, nor was it his job to make ME happy. He believes crack ho will make him happy and so he is hanging on as hard as he can.
I just believed that no matter what we would continue to fight for happiness together, but the sad part we didn't have the right formula.... G-D..... and seeking only him for guidance and happiness. Because he will steer me in the direction he wants for me.
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But if we were happy before the affair we can and will be happy again, with or without the WS. Our unhappiness is not because we lost the WS but because the WS lied, deceived and disrespected us. Our happiness didn't come from them to begin with and it is not theirs to take away from us when they leave.
My only unhappiness came from not being able to make my H happy and I didn't grasp it wasn't my job. I actually am a very happy person, who just faced the toughest journey in life thus far. I'm at peace, I'm living and I'm learning. But mostly I'm becoming who G-d envisioned for me....ALWAYS....
And from what I hear the Colts even tried that. Oh G-d I was thinking of James and his little boy.
It can ALWAYS be worse.
When I think about this from a G-d and healing perspective this is a MIRACLE....
My life before this revolved around this team, would be in reaction to this team winning or losing. I can go there with how stupid and childish.... blah, boring....crap...
What I am most grateful for is that I am no longer that person. I have grown to appreciate and be grateful for G-ds grace, patience and guidance.
I talked to someone last night who I had run into at the Seahawk game. She didn't know what had been going on in my life and we caught up on the phone last night.
Again, one more person who says how WH controlled me, how he held me down from being the vivacious loving person I am instinctively. She said she never thought he was genuine, or not sincere. More and more I hear that.
How did I become so blind or what really is the truth. In the long run, that doesn't matter, what does matter is I seem to be continually getting more pieces to a puzzle that and G-d again is being gracious and letting me be witness to it.
This is the belief that leads to a wayward mindset. It is a belief that anyone we love must make us happy and anyone who does not cannot be truly loved. It is what causes affairs, the looking for happiness rather than being happy...
Without a DOUBT this is my monster's issue.
He needed me to make him happy and it was NEVER my job to do that, nor was it his job to make ME happy. He believes crack ho will make him happy and so he is hanging on as hard as he can.
I just believed that no matter what we would continue to fight for happiness together, but the sad part we didn't have the right formula.... G-D..... and seeking only him for guidance and happiness. Because he will steer me in the direction he wants for me.
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But if we were happy before the affair we can and will be happy again, with or without the WS. Our unhappiness is not because we lost the WS but because the WS lied, deceived and disrespected us. Our happiness didn't come from them to begin with and it is not theirs to take away from us when they leave.
My only unhappiness came from not being able to make my H happy and I didn't grasp it wasn't my job. I actually am a very happy person, who just faced the toughest journey in life thus far. I'm at peace, I'm living and I'm learning. But mostly I'm becoming who G-d envisioned for me....ALWAYS....
Fortunately, my x didn't have a crackho. But, so much of what you said is right on the money for my divorce. Right on the money.
You know, how sad that WH is hanging on to a crack ho with hep c for happiness, and in the end, it truly could cost him his life. Not emotionally but physically because I wouldn't lay good odds he is practicing safe sex.
Queenie, should he come crawling back on his hands and knees, you just think about how he has treated you and your children AND think about this. Then see if you can get someone to plant a large foot up his chocolate wizway.
Queenie, should he come crawling back on his hands and knees, you just think about how he has treated you and your children AND think about this. Then see if you can get someone to plant a large foot up his chocolate wizway.
You SO deserve better than this idgit!
You know Cinders, I know most people think I am an idiot, in a fantasyworld, etc. I can't explain why it is I don't need him to come crawling back. Because I don't. I'm not going to fix this mess for him. I'm not going to make it better or sweep the hurts under the table.
As for deserving better. Only G-d really gets to decide that, not me. I married this man in sickness and in health. I'm not martyr though it probably appears that way.
I guess the bottom line is I love the man he was once, I hold FAITH that just maybe G-d can reach that man and bring him to his knees to reach for his relationship with G-d and possibly even bring him home.
I'm not that weak stupid woman who carried so much guilt for her part in the destruction of the M. But I am a woman of G-d who just is waiting a little longer to see how G-d has is planned.
How I have managed to preserve the love I have for him is anyones guess, but it's still there, like the lighthouse Ark talks about, silent, quiet and precious because it was the love that G-d gave me for my H.
And I don't want him on his knees. I just PRAY for him to call me BRIGHT EYES in that tone that tells me it's OVER and the real work of R can begin.
I don't mean to frustrate people on here, I don't mean to seem like I am weak, stupid, full of self pity etc. I'm just a wife that is willing to hold out a LITTLE longer and let G-d work the miracle for my life. Whichever that turns out to be.
I don't mean to frustrate people on here, I don't mean to seem like I am weak, stupid, full of self pity etc. I'm just a wife that is willing to hold out a LITTLE longer and let G-d work the miracle for my life. Whichever that turns out to be.
Well I don't think people see you like you are weak and stupid....you are a strong and courageous woman!!! You know...people understand that you want to wait on God to answer your prayers, and God sometimes doesn't answer prayers right away, sometimes we have to wait for God's perfect timing. Waiting hurts!! and it sucks!! but there is no other alternative.
Well I don't think people see you like you are weak and stupid....you are a strong and courageous woman!!!
Don't think I would take a poll. :RollieEyes:
I think that when you look at it from a purely logical point of view. It's time to get out NOW.... If I could be absolutely sure that the M was bad from the start and that G-d wants me out of it, I am ready to completely walk away.
I'm not blind to the problems in my M. I'm not in such a fantasy that what WH changed into and for many years before is an abusive loser.
It's my childlike faith in love, marriage and commitment and silly polyana view of the world that love conquers all. And that G-d will just fix it.
Oh well, I don't have to decide today. :crosseyedcrazy:
Queenie, I understand what you're saying... You know underneath the WH persona, he is a lovely man.... Lets just hang in there and wait to see what happens with the affair.....and then make decisions as the situations arise...thats my philosophy in my case anyway,I don't want to date yet so I'm living the best life I can..what happens, happens!
We both like to control situations,now we can't, so lets just sit back and try make the most of this rollercoaster ride! LOL
Many years ago I read a little book by Leo Rosten called "The jOYs of Yiddish". Turns out that none of my Jewish friends in Cape Town bother to speak it.
We all have to take our own time at this. Luna is struggling too, but all three of us will have our own timeframes and will do it (whatever 'it' is) when we are ready. Some just take longer than others. It's OK. You are doing great under the circumstances.
My son, Nate, was this little, precious blonde-haired blue-eyed boy. In second kindergarten through second grade, his math teacher was Mrs. Halprin. (Mrs. Halprin's husband had been my allergist for years - until his health caused him to quit practicing....but I loved Dr Halprin and always felt better when I left his office because I believed he cared. His wife was just as wonderful as was he.) Anyway, Mrs. Halprin thought Nate was special and he liked her, too. One of his best academic areas is math.
So, one day, Mrs H explains something and tells the math group to get to work. Knowing that Nate understood, she said, "If you have any problems, ask Nate the Great to help you." All 6 or 7 children in the group jump on him like ducks on a junebug. And, out of the middle of this group of students, she hears Nate's little voice when he said, "Oy vey!!"
Don't think you're a martyr, don't think you're living in a fantasy world, etc. DO think you're strong, and moving forward.
I had to file D within 5 months of DDay, just prior to going to Plan B, because if I didn't, he would, and I couldn't have him controlling the process - among other things, I have a business on the line, and the other issue is that I wanted the latitude to speed up, slow down, etc. So I wrote PBL after D. I didn't expect him to worry about any of that - why I was writing PBL after filing, what I really intended. I was writing for the future moment - if it ever came - when he would get a clue - and I was writing to set boundaries up so I could heal.
Maybe because I'm doing D&B simo, I've had to think about the "meaning" of all this. (I'm a big one for meaning. If I can't see it, I'll make it up. Works for me.) The meaning of the D for me is that it is a legal mechanics issue, designed to protect me and my finances. It has nothing to do with my commitment to H or to the marriage. I told WH that, even as I filed. The meaning of B is to get me to a safe space, start carving out my own life apart from B - oh, and yes, hold onto the hope that WH will snap out of it.
The meaning of the D for WH is his get out of legal constraints on his A license. The meaning of B is to be a pain in the butt (with regard to IM), to punish him, and to manipulate him.
So, basically, here we have two people in totally different places, perceiving things completely differently. Both at the same time. I don't live with just one of these perceptions; I live with both of them. Even when I'm not dealing with him, I sure have him in my head. What I have to do is choose which one I'm going to give the majority of my energy and time to. Which one am I going to act on. What do I choose to DO?
So, I have a thought for you. I don't see anything wrong with both holding on and letting go at the same time. If that sounds hopelessly contradictory, I'd argue back that it seems so only if people buy into "either/or" positions - which I, personally, have observed just don't work for much of the universe. I think acknowledging that this is how you feel is being really honest. What it boils down to is what you choose to do. DO. What you feel is real, too, but it isn't DOING. It is a choice, but it's not an action. And you know, Miss MOT, that it is the actions that count. Sooo....
I think you can actively rediscover yourself as in individual while still loving your H (not the WH).
I think you can actively build a life for yourself while still loving your H.
I think you can let go of dependencies, do things for yourself, teach yourself how to create pleasure with yourself or with friends - all while still loving your H.
I think you can embrace the need to become your own woman while still hoping for an eventual reconciliation.
What you must not DO is pine your life away, deny yourself the discovery of your own potential to make it on your own, hold back pleasure, be risk averse, or live in the past.
There's a difference.
To me, you seem to be in firmly set in the process of DOING (re)discovery, not living in the past.
Queenie, should he come crawling back on his hands and knees, you just think about how he has treated you and your children AND think about this. Then see if you can get someone to plant a large foot up his chocolate wizway.
You SO deserve better than this idgit!
You know Cinders, I know most people think I am an idiot, in a fantasyworld, etc. I can't explain why it is I don't need him to come crawling back. Because I don't. I'm not going to fix this mess for him. I'm not going to make it better or sweep the hurts under the table.
As for deserving better. Only G-d really gets to decide that, not me. I married this man in sickness and in health. I'm not martyr though it probably appears that way.
I guess the bottom line is I love the man he was once, I hold FAITH that just maybe G-d can reach that man and bring him to his knees to reach for his relationship with G-d and possibly even bring him home.
I'm not that weak stupid woman who carried so much guilt for her part in the destruction of the M. But I am a woman of G-d who just is waiting a little longer to see how G-d has is planned.
How I have managed to preserve the love I have for him is anyones guess, but it's still there, like the lighthouse Ark talks about, silent, quiet and precious because it was the love that G-d gave me for my H.
And I don't want him on his knees. I just PRAY for him to call me BRIGHT EYES in that tone that tells me it's OVER and the real work of R can begin.
I don't mean to frustrate people on here, I don't mean to seem like I am weak, stupid, full of self pity etc. I'm just a wife that is willing to hold out a LITTLE longer and let G-d work the miracle for my life. Whichever that turns out to be.
Dang My, I go out for an evening to have fun and take care of myself and I come back and you have been edited out. Wouldn't you know it. LOL
Dude, you have no idea how much I appreciate your candid honesty. I might not be able to act on what you are saying or truly "internalize" your point, but I KNOW it's going in LOUD and CLEAR. Thanks sir.. And I don't mean that flippantly.
Today, the mother of the 17 year old who died last February came into school today to bring a present to a teacher who her son adored. I was stunned by how awful and sad she looked. I watched her, truly watched, her the hesitancy to move within life, the sadness and devastastion of the loss and I realized that I was looking at myself ONCE UPON a TIME.
I am NO LONGER that destroyed, pitiful, anniliated, pathetic person who couldn't even think of which paper to use. I am ALIVE, I have HOPE for MY FUTURE. I have created a LIFE by myself that includes a whole new group of friends, some old friends, and especially my children. G-d leads me daily in my walk in life.
But most importantly, yes I will probably always hold hope that WH would have come home, but I don't live or die because of it. I am stronger than before, I have my sick, sordid, inventive sense of humor back. I am multi multi tasking at school. And yet I remember I am an alcoholic who has a disease that has to be maintained on a daily basis and I live my life to please my G-d so I don't EVER go back to HER.
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To me, you seem to be in firmly set in the process of DOING (re)discovery, not living in the past.
I am discovering who QUEENIE is.... and WHAT QUEENIE wants for HERSELF.... And you know what I am actually kind of amazing....
Yes, I said it. I'm genuine, kind, caring, loving, passionate, intelligent, adventurous, street smart, old fashioned, naive, worldy, sports minded, can make almost anyone feel comfortable upon meeting me, enjoyed bringing joy to others but above all else, I can face G-d and say thank you.
Cinders, does your son wear earings? I have the most awesome set of earings that say Oy Vey!!!
Thank you Chai and Imagine for your support. Hey Luna, where have you been girl. I need to pop over to your thread and check ya out.
Miriam, Miss MOT, you are very wise and help to put things into a little clearer perspective for me. I'm glad i am getting to know you better. You got some brains up on top woman. Thank you.
Now a little update on my day. Looks like the PNW is about to get dumped on with more snow, which is awesome and gorgeous, but the roads have about two inches of solid ice on them. Don't do ice, not on these hills, so I probably get to make another morning phone call to staff and brighten up their day.
So, since we are all becoming closer friends, I should tell you a little hysterical story. In fact it may give some of you hope that I really am a person capable of enjoying her life without the monster. I have an awesome voice, and yes, I have a dirty mind :RollieEyes: Many years ago, when we were horribly broke a friend of mine recommended that I get a 900 number for yes, you can guess what to make money. He who is 400 lbs and a sailor told me that I could make him blush.... Anyways, being the dutiful, entreprenuer wife that I was, excitedly went home to share my business venture with H. He told me to pray to G-d for my answer.... The next day I literally woke up with laryngitis, total and complete for 3 weeks.
A few years after that I called up a radio station and the dj in the back commented how I could make a mint on my voice.
I have made two phone calls to staff members these past two days. I am flattered and chuckling to myself on how many compliments I am getting on my voice.... Now that I am alone, I wonder if G-d wouldn't let me get that 900 number now and make me some MONEY.....
JUST KIDDING......
On a more reality note, I found out today that my YS was searched at school for drugs. I am a little surprised that NO ONE called me to get my permission or let me know what was going on. But, this NEW MOM is giving the school a call tomorrow to find out whassup.... :crosseyedcrazy:
Well, if he was clean, he needs to be complimented.
Son does not wear earrings. Daughter does.
You know, I have a friend who told me several years ago about the time when I looked so bad. That surprised me. I didn't know that I looked that bad when I was going through the worst of it. However, it's a wonderful thing to move on from that. I just wish I could get rid of some of the pounds that had fallen of back during the divorce diet.
Queenie, I've been told I should get that same type of phone number. I worked at a call center one time and had a man lose his ability to formulate complete sentences during the course of filing his unemployment insurance claim. Then, I realized (because of his breathing pattern change) what was going on. I asked him, at that point, if he wanted me to get someone else to help him finish his call. I told management about that. It became another reason to transfer a call to someone else.
I'm so glad I took the time to try to catch up with your thread today! It has made my heart SING with JOY!!
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I am discovering who QUEENIE is.... and WHAT QUEENIE wants for HERSELF.... And you know what I am actually kind of amazing....
Yes, I said it. I'm genuine, kind, caring, loving, passionate, intelligent, adventurous, street smart, old fashioned, naive, worldy, sports minded, can make almost anyone feel comfortable upon meeting me, enjoyed bringing joy to others but above all else, I can face G-d and say thank you.
I'm faint with JOY!! Yes, yes, yes, you ARE all of these things and more,,,,,,,,,,,Praise God that YOU finally realize it!!
Isn't it just the best day of all our lives. No special reason accept you have to act like it to believe it.
Anyways,
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Well, if he was clean, he needs to be complimented.
He was clean and nothing was found. I called the school because we are two hours late and now closed and I'm at work anyway... SO, it is the policy of school to just search the kids on a report. And not in their policy to let parents know. Why, I have no clue... Oh wait, it would take up too much time.
So, I have asked that my buddy the principal call me when he comes to work and help me understand this recent turn of excitement.
Hi Bugs,
I still think BS's should write a book on the adventures of A, and make us a whopping MINT on the stories that imagination just can't create and then all rent a ship and take us one heck of a trip. To GODDESS/WARRIOR PARADISE.
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Praise God that YOU finally realize it!!
Praise G-d that he made me this way and kept working on ME to realize it.
I miss you girl, but dang, you sound good too. I LIMO?? Another date with someone else? Wow, I think single life could be for me.
Did you get much snow? Thanks to winds coming from Canada (well, the Frasier River Valley and its awesome wind apparently) we have about 10 inches...and more on the way tonight. Looks like winter break is starting early.
I think I can answer the question about your YS being searched. If there was probable cause, the school administration can search students, their lockers and even their cars on school property without contacting the parents. There is something in state law that gives them the right to do so just like a parent can search a kid's room. But again, there has to be some kind of probable cause. They don't have to tell you they did it if they don't find anything because there won't be any disciplinary action. IF they did find something, you would be called right away.
It could be he was with some kids during lunch or sometime who were suspected of carrying drugs or whatever, and he got called in because of that wonderful "guilt by association". It's a tough call. What did he have to say about it?
You are so awesome. I do believe that both of us are going to come out of this alive and well, thank you very much..... Thanks to this thing called Plan B, we both have been able to get away from the madness and concentrate on ourselves.
Maybe you should look at a job as a DJ rather than the 900 number. Heck, look where it got Ryan Seacrest.
As the mother of an addict, be thankful that the school keeps an eye on that stuff. Had I known about my DD earlier than I did, it may not have gotten this far out of hand.
I was working at the concession stand for one of the football games at son's school. We were selling hot chocolate, among other things. One of the police officers working the game stopped a teenager and demanded to know what he had just put in his pocket. It was a plastic bag with small white things in it......officer thought it was pills....but it was little marshmallows we were giving the hot chocolate customers.
Hi Queenie! I'm glad to hear that you have found the goddess within you.
Originally Posted by QueeniesNewLife
I am discovering who QUEENIE is.... and WHAT QUEENIE wants for HERSELF.... And you know what I am actually kind of amazing....
You are the best!
I hope that your son is ok and that there won't be any more trouble at school. My immediate thought when I read that the school searches kids without asking the parents is that if they would have to get in touch with the parents, the student or his(her) friends might have time to get rid of the evidences - in case there are any drugs. I do think that they should let you know what has happened though. I hope that you can sort it out with the principal.
Dang My, I go out for an evening to have fun and take care of myself and I come back and you have been edited out. Wouldn't you know it. LOL
Dude, you have no idea how much I appreciate your candid honesty. I might not be able to act on what you are saying or truly "internalize" your point, but I KNOW it's going in LOUD and CLEAR. Thanks sir.. And I don't mean that flippantly.
Thanks.....having relooked at my post, maybe it was a bit strong! Your just lucky I'm nowhere near you or I'd kick your a$$! Mods - you know I'm joking right?????
How did you manage to change the title of your thread? I'm thinking of doing the same...
Hope, I emailed a moderator, pick one and ask them. They are very kind and patient with me as I figured out what I wanted. Thanks, Mods.
Hey JT,
Did you hear about the HUGE wind/snow storm coming in tomorrow. Wouldn't you know they keep mentioning Maple Valley as one of the places to take the brunt of the weather. What a drag, I don't have a heating fireplace, and if I lose power.... I'll need to be way more creative.
How much snow did you get finally? We are at about 4 inches, which isn't much. BUMMER.....
Hi Why, Luna, and Chai
Thank you for the concern on my son. I have spoken with the principal and according to him that never took place. We did have a nice call, evidently there is a group of girls saying that YS was bringin in drugs to sell to one girl. They brought the supposed recipient of the sale in and searched her backpack. NOTHING was found, end of discussion. She told my son as soon as she got out that they were going to search him, but since it was the end of the day, they just let it go because it seems these girls have been doing a little other "drama" stuff and the administration just doesn't feel like searching my son was warranted.
However, I was assured that had he been searched, 1) I would have been notified and 2) He would have been searched with another adult present. NO IFS, ANDS, or BUTS about it.
This has been a good opportunity for me to allow G-d to lead me and take the moment to emphasize to my son what he is doing, how this blows out of proportion for his choices and that he needs to rein it in. Hopefully he has learned his lesson.
I have grown so much as a mom. One more gift from this....
Angie, I am so touched for you coming to my rescue, but I actually understand My and what he is doing. And it's the truth.
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Meant in the nicest possible way! Queenie was actually looking for another poster to come to her thread and "kick her a$$" in the past.
My original AA sponsor told me to pray for people to be put in my life who cared more about my life and than my feelings. My, my donkey needs you. :twobyfour: I am not taking offense to what you are saying. In fact, Mimi probably is appreciating the candor because she was always good at making me look at my negativity and pitty potty. I miss her, where is she by the way. And so it's helping me "stay clean and honest with the truth".
another example of how I have grown. In the past, what you said, I would have tried to fix you, make it better with you - because surely you didn't "like" me if you would say something like that, blah, blah, yuk blah.... But not the new ME. I just laughed and appreciate the total honesty.
Shabbat Shalom and Happy Weekend to everyone..... If I lose power, then :happyhanukkah:, since it starts on Sunday....
I'd pay to have snow like that at Christmas time in my yard.
JT I think got over 12 inches, some places got 20 inches.... Bellevue got 6 to 10..
But I'm grateful and it's absolutely amazingly gorgeous with the blue skies. Remember the song and tv show (one of my fav's), the bluest skies are in Seattle...
We are due to get a very severe winter storm with winds from 50 - 70 and gusts up to 90. Normally I don't concern myself too much, but they keep specifically calling my town name.
So if I lose touch for awhile, please don't worry, it's the power and its OUT.....
Hey Queenie! (JT waving from under 15 inches of snow)
I've been doing well up here in the north-lots of snow (15 inches by Wed.) but I have some "Yak-Traks" that I put on my boots and I'm ready to go. I just tromp where ever I have to go.
I saw the news reports for your valley. You and my twin brother (he lives in North Bend) are going to get the brunt of this if the reports are right. The sky is very light and the winds are picking up so I expect we will have more snow. So glad its winter break...
OS got home from WSU fine-his dad got him in a 4 wheel drive so he got home in one peice.
I remember that song about the bluest skies in Seattle. I also remember the show - Here Come the Brides. Whatever happened to that show? I never even see it in reruns.
You and my twin brother (he lives in North Bend) are going to get the brunt of this if the reports are right.
From what the reports say from North Bend, the winds are really kicking up. I know they are here. It's howling around here and snowing really hard. And it's not even the worst yet. Gusts are at about 35 - 45 miles so far.... They are expecting 90 around here.
My son called and his boss offered to put them up for the night at a hotel, but I think he is going to drive home. that is his FATHER in HIM.....
I'm glad you son made it home safely. It's so hard when our kids are out of sight and the forces are against them so to speak.
If we lose power I don't have another heating source, BUT I G-d has been active in my mind. I have lots of blankets, got cold cuts, that we will just put outside to cool, and use the hand warmers to keep us warm. I have had my bedroom heat up higher than normal so if we lose it, the room should stay warm a little longer...
You keep safe... and I hope we can hook up, that's if the snow stops... and the ice melts...
This was my most favorite shows of all time. I wanted to be a bride and have Jeremy as my husband. I play acted that all the time like girls do at those weird ages :crosseyedcrazy:
I'm a little restless tonight, not sure what's going on. But I'm so grateful for all of you in my life... So grateful.
Wow, I Googled the show and now I remember it more and more. Bobby Sherman was the cutie. Didn't realize David Soul was one of the brothers too. Are they doing a remake? Almost sounded like something was happening along those lines.
Queenie, I'm thankful for everyone around here as well. Not sure how I would have survived had I not found this place. I had some pretty desperate nights last year....
But, we are both here, we have survived, we have grown, we have prospered, and we have loved each other.
I'm hoping that when I go to court on Monday, I can look at WH and not hurt or feel. I want to get to that point. It's just time for it now....
I hope all are well. Our weather is flaking out.....73 for the high yesterday, 45 today, 31 tomorrow - 13 tomorrow night. Does anyone see anything wrong with that? It should be back up to the 60s on Friday. I think we're all gonna be..... with respiratory cruds.
Anyway, Chai, when I went to court, I had a mixture of felings....glad it was gonna be over with, regret that I couldn't have provided what he needed to keep him from doing this, and disgust at who he had become. As much as I had wanted to save my marriage, I was relieved that we were there and I could move on with my life.
I'm blushing because it's COLD outside and I look better with a blush.
Which reminds me Miss Queenie, wheres that photo you promised me?????
We are still in the process of sorting accomidation. I think we are going to give up on the billets, it seems to be a big drama, so we'll just do it ourselves. We have some stuff lined up, just gotta make sure its gonna suit the flights and event and yadda yadda.
May be I should just get one of you united states peeps to organise everything for us LOL
Just dropping by to say "hi", Queenie, and that I'm glad you have survived the storm...I have friends near Portland and they're digging out...hang in there & I'll be thinking of you when I light candles!
Had to stop in and give you some Kudo's for the great posts to Julie yesterday. Spot on! You have come such a long way my friend. You have such a warm place in SMB's and my heart. Wishing you and your children a safe and wonderful holiday season.
Happy Chanukah everyone. I just heard this morning that it means "dedication".
Queenie - Hope you are okay. My mom has been snowed in for 4 days and I am worried about her. She needs to go to the doctor, to clean her port for chemo. Also she has no milk.
She has a neighbor that will help, but I don't think the neighbor can get out either.
How's the weather up there Queenie? Hope you still have power and heat and all that good stuff. We have sub-zero temps today with strong winds and blowing snow that is closing some "East-West highways away from the city.
We'll be praying for you and your family tonight. I'm fixing latkes for dinner.
Blessed are you, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us to light the lights of Chanukkah. Amen
Blessed are you, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe Who performed miracles for our ancestors in those days at this time. Amen
Blessed are you, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe who has kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season. Amen
Hi tst, thanks for the kind words. Tell your gorgeous wife, I miss her so much and hope to see her on here soon. Happy Holidays to you and your family. I pray that continued recovery stays in your home and G-d is keeping a special eye on her when she needs it.
Happy Hanukkah Miriam, can you believe it, but it's still snowing outside..... Blizzard almost. I talked to smartie pants on the phone today and she asked how much I got. LOL.. I don't know it's all blown away. :happyhanukkah:
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She needs to go to the doctor, to clean her port for chemo. Also she has no milk.
Can we get a medical truck to come and get her and bring her to the dr or hospital to get the port cleaned? I wonder if there is a grocery store, like Safeway that might deliver because of the medical emergency? Do you know if the friend can get out? Can I help? I could put an sos if she is on the island for people at the Jewish community center and see if someone can help or the temple. I am so ing for her....
Happy Chanukkah Mark, I don't have presents to give my boys, but we did light candles and I am blessed to have my children here to share these moments with. My daughter is snowed in and didn't come over. She'll come over next weekend and I'll make latkes then.
I get to give G-d a moment of glory and shining at what one of HIS children did tonight.
I went into my kitchen and noticed that there was a car stuck in the parking lot behind my apt. It appeared there were two men trying to get up a hill that just wasn't cooperating. Believe it or not, it has been snowing here for almost 36 hours non-stop...
I prayed and asked G-d to help them. My YS came out and kinda joked about them, went back into brothers room to play X-Box. Learning to trust G-d IN ALL THINGS... a few moments later, YS came out with coat on, shoes on, and ready to go out there and help. He brought the men hand warmers in case they were cold and I watched my baby, but more importantly G-ds child do a mitzvah, which is the highest gift in life there is.
To give of oneself and help another. I am so honored that G-d trusted me with this child of his and just feel how proud he is of him tonight as I am.
Thank you so much G-d for the blessings of my children. Everyday I get the miracle of watching them become your children more and more and I know it's because you are working in their lives.
You know, I would rather have you love me and demonstrate it than have you buy me a bunch of stuff.
My addled-brained mom hasn't bought me a gift in ages. And that's ok. She tells me she loves me. Looks me in the eye and tells me. What more could I want?
Sweet Queenie, it's nearly 1 a.m. here. Gotta be at dermatologist's office in less than 8 hrs. I'm outta here for the night.
I love you and hope your Hanukkah is all that you could hope for.
8 blessings.....give your children 8 blessings this year.
I give you permission to throw in a gift.....I have it!!!!!! The perfect gift......what about a fleece blanket.....tell them that it is a symbol of G-d's love and your love for them....to cover them, to comfort them, and to warm them. A scarf would do. (the boys might not care for a scarf - but then again....).
I get to give G-d a moment of glory and shining at what one of HIS children did tonight.
I went into my kitchen and noticed that there was a car stuck in the parking lot behind my apt. It appeared there were two men trying to get up a hill that just wasn't cooperating. Believe it or not, it has been snowing here for almost 36 hours non-stop...
I prayed and asked G-d to help them. My YS came out and kinda joked about them, went back into brothers room to play X-Box. Learning to trust G-d IN ALL THINGS... a few moments later, YS came out with coat on, shoes on, and ready to go out there and help. He brought the men hand warmers in case they were cold and I watched my baby, but more importantly G-ds child do a mitzvah, which is the highest gift in life there is.
To give of oneself and help another. I am so honored that G-d trusted me with this child of his and just feel how proud he is of him tonight as I am.
Thank you so much G-d for the blessings of my children. Everyday I get the miracle of watching them become your children more and more and I know it's because you are working in their lives.
Thanks for the kind thoughts Queenie. One of mom's neighbors is going to attempt to get out today to get some groceries.
And the doctor seems to think that she can wait until the snow is gone for treatment. So I'm thankful for that.
She has plenty of food and the power is still on. She was so sad about all of her beautiful plants this morning because the snow is so heavy on them, but then was very thankful that she has it so good compared to so many others.
Sounds like your son has been raised on the right path. G_d bless his little heart.
I'm not perfect, but I am recovering and learning EVERYDAY about life and myself. And that's pretty darn cool.
You bet.
Wow! You seem to have had MEAN weather around your parts, but you seem to have a handle on things.
t/j to B,
I would think that it must be tough to be so far away and not be able to help your mom, but I see that you are doing the best you can to do so from a distance.
I am so grateful to be part of such a great bunch....doing what we can...and helping and encouraging each other.
Thank you so much G-d for the blessings of my children. Everyday I get the miracle of watching them become your children more and more and I know it's because you are working in their lives.
Yes!!! Living each day by the power of HIS love...!!!
Thank you for your support. I hope that you and your boys are safe and warm. I am happy that you can be together. Your YS did really well when he helped the people stuck in the snow.
I need to be honest with you, My heart is broken and as of right now I cant bring myself to see you. You have always been my father and will for ever remain that man in my life. but so much tragedy and pain has brought me to this place. my love for you will never die but the flame right now is very dim.
I've recently found help for myself, gotten my self back in the right state of mind and really worked on my demons that i had in my closet. My relationship with mom has grown stronger and more powerful then either one of us could have known. I watch her pain as she longs to be your wife still on how she deeply wants a family with you again. i know that neither could happen as the months leads to years.
we as kids have tried to help her move on in every way that we can but we have hit our own road block. OS deeply earns for a father that he can once again trust and rely on. he feels that you have lied to him and broke your trust that the two of you had. Dad you were our rock that held this family together. you know us more than mom did and to have our trust and best friend do something more hurtful than life it self at this point is harder to bear.
I know you pain for your boys and YS is the one giving you a chance, but OS is deeply hurt and you know how stubborn he is cause face it dad he is just like you.
Him and YS got into a fight several months ago and when YS called me crying i called OS to see what was wrong. he said he was leaving and couldn't take it anymore that YS looked to much like you and that he sounded like you. out of anger and shear brutality i said just run away like dad. you cant image the pain that this family has been through and the amount that is still coming. you werent at Os's graduation and no amount of power can change that. Mom always says that G*D has a place for you and that you will find your way home when your ready. I have faith that the man that you are right now isn't my father.
This man that you stair at in the mirror isnt you, cause the man that held me so close when i was little and wanted the world for me would have never brought this much pain to my world. I'm hurt and for my heart to mend i need time. talking to you over the internet is fine cause i feel that your far enough away and yet still right there. I have alot of trust issues and though all of this i have learned to deal with my self. you might not be able to make it thourgh to OS but YS hasn't lost hope in you.
please dad i beg you find G*d and listen to him. the last time i wrote you my feelings i felt that you didnt listen, i'm pouring my heart to you. i was raised to speak my feelings and to respect those who deserve it. Dad my respect for you has been lost and the respect for your girlfriend is not there. your right i have no place to call her names and to say mean things without knowing who she is. but in all honesty i dont want really ever meet her. i'm sure what ever you saw in her was something that you needed. but the way in which you conveyed that to mom was wrong. I've always been scared to tell you the raw thoughts in my head but im letting my gard down and finally breaking it to you. When i was riding the bus i would see this man get on every morning that looked liked you and it brought me to tears to know that you could maybe be like that.
I love you dad and always will but my heart and relationship with you is broken and right now i'm not sure i want to make it right. I beg you to not let go of YS and to continue to make your relationship better with him. I hope you understand my words, and please dont reply to this. i want you to understand, i need no response. I wish you the best of luck and Happy Hanukkah. I will write to you soon...
I thought I would process what's going on inside of me on here and get RID of it.
It's tearing me up inside.. My thoughts on what precipitated such a letter from DD are driving me insane.
I knew that DD and WH were in contact again, and I imagine that he tried to push a meeting between them all. How can WH defend OW to my DD, to say she has no right to call her names.
He is a fricking IDIOT..... :twobyfour:
What does he think that his kids are going to welcome him with open arms for destroying their family, from ripping them from their house and staying away for months and months on end. For continually putting his enjoyment with his crack ho before anyone else and then makes his move and HIS children are to RESPECT a tramp that breaks up their family?
I know he is a jerk. :crosseyedcrazy: I guess that it just reinforced the "happy" couple are moving along in life and he is wanting to do whatever the monster conjures up in his sick head.
I liked DARKNESS better... Information is NOT BLISS or healing to me....
What does he think that his kids are going to welcome him with open arms for destroying their family, from ripping them from their house and staying away for months and months on end. For continually putting his enjoyment with his crack ho before anyone else and then makes his move and HIS children are to RESPECT a tramp that breaks up their family?
I know he is a jerk. :crosseyedcrazy: I guess that it just reinforced the "happy" couple are moving along in life and he is wanting to do whatever the monster conjures up in his sick head.
I liked DARKNESS better... Information is NOT BLISS or healing to me....
Exactly! I like your thinking....Its a beautiful letter from your DD. You should be proud of her. I don't like the way it portrays you though....as just waiting around waiting while he enjoys his crack ho at your expense and your childrens. But then again, you didn't write it.
I truly hope your WH can see the light and rebuild his R with your children, but as far as you're concerned, IMO its way too late. I hope you'll have the strength to see this. You have many years ahead. Go out and live them! You have endured way too much with this man
Keep working on me My and I just might get there sooner rather than later. :twobyfour: Even in the letter, it's clearly a monster that everyone knows exists today.
I won't go there... But the thoughts are still there. FOR NOW... :crosseyedcrazy:
I'm out enjoying life... OK, not recently with the weather and all, but I'm moving on. :RollieEyes:
Thanks Why for stopping by. I really appreciate the kindness and support from everyone so much.
Hey girlfriend....that was an INCREDIABLY touching letter your daughter wrote. It showed how well YOU are doing even in the face of the adversary WH and CH have put in your life...be PROUD. Chest up and head out.....as mimi would say.
And honestly for me, to see how well you ARE handling even a little of info on WH is AMAZING...remember just a few short months ago how something like this would drain you, send you out REALLY bad. Of course anything related to WH is going to hurt you, but you are coming along so well...I am most proud of YOU.....
Honestly, your growth is nothing short of a miracle G-d has done to you and your family....
Your welcome, you I think the reason you're not as far along as most would be is because you view your WH as having a sickness. You think of it as having to honour your vows of 'in sickness and in health'. Did you ever consider that maybe he is happy? Now WE can't possibly imagine this because we do not share his wayward values, but to him it is.
You know you never vowed to honour and wait for your WH while he lay with a crack ho! That is his cross to bear, not yours! I think the sooner you stop thinking of your WH as a fogged out zombie, the better. Not all fall into this category unfortunately. People change as we've heard here recently and its not always for the better.
The best gift you can give yourself is a happy life. Do you want to be here at 70 regretting all the years you wasted on this loser? We are here for a good time not for a long time. Get out there, start dating, let this loser see that you are not waiting for him. Yes I said dating! Have a man take you out, treat you well......maybe you'll realise what your missing.
You know if anything at this stage would 'wake' your WH up it would be this. But I have to be honest with you, he's had his chance....there's way too much hurt there now, your M would never work.
Please stop seeing this as you trying to be his saviour by holding on for him. He has chosen not to be saved! Nobody is going to thank you for wasting your life, certainly not your children. Let your rebirth be a shining example for them to follow, and a lesson to them NOT to settle for or put up with abusive people in their lives..........
I'm glad that your DD doesn't accept the crack-ho. Unfortunately, too many WS's throw away their families in favor of the AP. Very sad.
What is the status of your M? Are you legally separated? I know that you are not D'd, but wasn't sure where it stood.
Dating? I'm not quite there yet. I definitely want the D final before I even think about it. Since it doesn't look like either one of our spouses will return, we should start at least considering the possibility.
Since it doesn't look like either one of our spouses will return, we should start at least considering the possibility.
Why would you want your WH's back? Surely the respect has long gone? I want you both to really think about this question! Maybe some individual counselling is needed to address what it is about yourselves make you even want this? You both deserve sooo much better. That is my mission, to make ye realise this.......
That is my mission, to make ye realise this.......
I'm game if you are on this one. I don't necessarily disagree that I deserve much better and to be honest, I really am looking at what you are writing. If I could have you be a BIT more patient in understanding that this IS helping me to continue letting go or at the very least make the decision to file for D.
Chai, I am legally separated and to be honest, since I have NEVER had a relationship with any other man than H, dating certainly intrigues me. I know I'm about to get :twobyfour: for this, but I would be lying if I wasn't honest about that.
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I think the reason you're not as far along as most would be is because you view your WH as having a sickness.
I actually do think of him as sick. You see, Vladi, I can call you that by now, can’t I. WH IS an addict/alcoholic who is living in a dry drunk. I am POSITIVE of that. This A didn’t make him an addict, he was already that, and all this has done is brought the disease into full force and totally active in his life.
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You think of it as having to honour your vows of 'in sickness and in health'.
Yes I do, but also to a POINT.
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Did you ever consider that maybe he is happy? Now WE can't possibly imagine this because we do not share his wayward values, but to him it is.
I actually KNOW he believes he is HAPPY. And how I know this is because I KNOW how unhappy he was in his life. The piece he hasn't figured out is whose job it is to make him happy. NOT MINE....
I also know it’s none of my business to judge what makes him happy or not. I had to learn that along the way, that it is a DJ to assume he isn’t happy, he absolutely believes he is happy and building something based on trust, openness and honesty with her.
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People change as we've heard here recently and its not always for the better.
This is where I get caught, believing that he is in fact in a midlife crisis and has changed because of many factors and given enough time he will change back.
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The best gift you can give yourself is a happy life. Do you want to be here at 70 regretting all the years you wasted on this loser? We are here for a good time not for a long time. Get out there, start dating, let this loser see that you are not waiting for him. Yes I said dating! Have a man take you out, treat you well......maybe you'll realise what your missing.
I gotta say I like this thought. Remember that letter was from my DD, I didn’t ask her to put in those things, she did. I really want to emphasis I am NOT laying around the house moping and waiting for him to come home. I am living life, enjoying it actually quite a lot, laughing, living, and moving forward.
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Let your rebirth be a shining example for them to follow, and a lesson to them NOT to settle for or put up with abusive people in their lives..........
I need help here, because even though it seem so obvious to others, that abusive part, I just can’t wrap my mind around or how it impacts my life. But with everything else, I have faced things head on and I will this.. One thing I know G-d has revealed things to me as I can handle them and I believe he will continue to do so.
Right now I see you as a voice of opposite reason if that makes sense and really need your input. You see through the trees and I’m just not there yet, BUT SO MUCH CLOSER….
Believer, how is your mom? DId she get the supplies and help she needed.
The weather is supposed to take a break until Christmas Eve.. I'm praying for her B.... Let me know if there is anything I can do.
Not, you are so right. This would have killed me at one point, but it just stings and then it's over.
What I realized as I read the letter to a MB friend over the phone was that my DD basically wrote WH a child's version of PBL. Oh yes, I am one proud momma. She puts things in there that I would NOT have been able to do.
What impact this has is in G-ds hands. I'm just so grateful that I am healed enough to continue to see my life WITHOUT that person in my life.
Yes, I'm still alive. Your heart seems to be having a hard time standing up to your mind lately. I read My's post and part of me screams the same sentiment. All this being said, you have been around here long enough to know that the only debate that matters is the one between your heart and your head. Do not let your inhibitions get in the way though... you have proven to yourself and many others that you are more that cabable of making a very good life for yourself by yourself. You can't save him Queenie and I worry that this is what keeps you holding on. This is one situation you know you cannot fix. And no, I do not beleive that this is a punishment from God. Look at your life before the A and consider that this was his way to save you. B needed to find out who Queenie was, and you have done that. Will your H heed his call? You know that there is only one person that can answer that. You can be happy Queenie, but only you and your actions will determine how to get there, and if it's without your H, then so be it. :happyhanukkah: with love and prayer...
What I realized as I read the letter to a MB friend over the phone was that my DD basically wrote WH a child's version of PBL. Oh yes, I am one proud momma.
...as you should be!
Seeing your daughter able to communicate 'boundaries' to her own Dad, and call abuse for what it is.... are healthy tools to have...and will help her make 'healthier' decisions in her life.
...and where, may I ask, do you think she got the idea of identifying and communicating 'boundaries' and write her own version of a PBL?
...as they say, the apple does not fall far from the appletree!
What impact this has is in G-ds hands. I'm just so grateful that I am healed enough to continue to see my life WITHOUT that person in my life.
Some day, you will truly relinquish this entire situation to God. Right now, I see you holding on, and I'm concerned about WHAT you are holding on for.
This man is broken, in ways that you cannot fix; you could never fix. Sure, you can wait it out, hope the affair crumbles, and that, over more YEARS, your WH finds his way back to God and his family. I wonder how much of your precious time you will be wasting on HOPE alone, that he will turn around. I suppose it is entirely possible that he could change again, into a better man, a good man. I just have my doubts, based on my own experience and the experience of those on this forum who have separated/divorced.
Trust me when I say that it takes a strong will to recover a marriage, more than just Plan B tenacity. It takes TWO strong wills to do so. I just don't believe that your WH has that. the Z did not, or chose not to. I believe you do, but it would prolly be wasted effort.
Now, it seems that you have strengthened your relationships with your children, and THAT is one of the greatest gifts a parent can receive. :happyhanukkah:
(((((((Queenie)))))) Just stopping by to tell you that I am sorry you felt frustrated. I hear your pain!. You should be very proud of your D, she pour her heart in the letter.
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I'm so sorry you are hurting and walking through this. I love you sweet friend,
I have read evertything you have written. I just must be the most "naive" or unwilling to really hear.
All I keep coming back to is that it's time to divorce him. Is that what you are saying?
I'm not asking you to make the decision, I'm asking you to get to the bottom line for me. Because I have moved on, I have built a life without him. I don't make decisions based on what he would think. I take care of myself, my children.
Honestly, all that is keeping me from divorcing him is that we haven't hit the statistics, 2 years since D-day, or 2 years in Plan B.
I'm walking down to the fake and bake place and you can bet my heart is asking G-d what he wants for me.
I just need that little obvious push because I'm fighting it... so hard...
Honestly, all that is keeping me from divorcing him is that we haven't hit the statistics, 2 years since D-day, or 2 years in Plan B.
Then I say carry on. As long as you have a goal, a plan, and are not just waiting for SOMETHING to prompt you to make a decision, then that's a-okay. Sounds like you know what you want. That's good, Queenie.
Trust me when I say that it takes a strong will to recover a marriage, more than just Plan B tenacity. It takes TWO strong wills to do so.
Queenie, I agree strongly with this statement.
You should be crowned the Plan B Queen(ie). You have remained steadfast throughout. If you want to wait for the 2-year mark, no one can fault you for that. I believe it would take nothing short of a miracle for your WH to turn around. Let it be known however, that I personally believe in miracles.
The question is, even if he did, and he came back on hands and knees, repentent before you, your children and God, are you at a place where you could truly forgive and do the hard work necessary for recovery? I've been in that place and saying it's not easy is an understatement.
Whatever you do, I don't want to see you do anything that would jeopardize the relationship with G-d that you've developed and the stronger relationship that you've developed with your children through all of this.
If two years is your plan, then stick with it if you can. Mine was one year, and at the one year mark I filed. If I thought that I could do two years, I would, but I don't know what purpose it would serve. As much as I don't want to be D'd, I don't think I have what it takes to R after all he has done. I know that he doesn't have what it takes.
You have what it takes, but would your WH be willing to step up to the plate? I'm not sure. Don't know him well enough. You do, what do you think?
I have moved on, I have built a life without him. I don't make decisions based on what he would think. I take care of myself, my children.
Honestly, all that is keeping me from divorcing him is that we haven't hit the statistics, 2 years since D-day, or 2 years in Plan B.
You are working a 'plan', one that is suggested as a healthy one to adopt....to allow time for BS to evaluate and improve (self-recovery) before considering moving on to M recovery or new R....but any plan can be reviewed and revised.
...what I can suggest, Queenie, is that any change of plan considered today should withstand the 'test of time' (it sounds good today...will it sound good tomorrow?)....to make sure it's not as a 'reaction' to anything...also, is the 'mind and heart in sync' about new course of action contemplated?
I had to step away from here and really read what you are saying to me. I'm truly feel like I have moved on and so flippin far ahead of where I was last year at this time.
Last year I just wanted to be dead. Nothing else..
So, while my path might not be as fast as it should be, it is moving forward, with set backs, but NOT nearly like before and the recovery is nano second. I'm happy with my progress and I'm listening.
I like your idea of test of time.... But like I have learned. I don't need to decide today.
What's more on my heart than anything else right now is to wish all of you who celebrate Christmas a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS, one full of love, splendor, spirit and joy.
You all have touched my life beyond explanation and it's a day like tomorrow or the time of year where my gratitude is not measurable and my heart and prayers are full of happiness, prosperity and joy in your lives.
Thank you for being in my life and letting me walk with you in your journey. :MerryChristmas:
I wish you the best for 2009. I know it will be an even better year for you. It has to be. And yes, you have come so far this past year. I do see it.
I was talking to a lady today who went through this 7 years ago. She was M 34 years when her H left and M an OW who was 20 years younger. She said it took her over two years to finally get to a point where she started to let it go. It just takes some longer than others. Remember, we'll get there in our own time.
Queenie, As you grow with God, you will know what is right for YOU. I think you are doing an amazing job working on YOU. The lesson that I am realizing more clearly everyday is that for too long the givers of this world give all of themselves and don't realize the toll it takes on their bodies and their souls.
I too had to step back and recover me. I think that describes you also.
Live your life for you and all will be fine.
Merry Christmas, and thanks for caring for all of us.
I too had to step back and recover me. I think that describes you also.
Live your life for you and all will be fine.
Merry Christmas, and thanks for caring for all of us.
the hardest lesson was HOW to live that life, but G-d is teaching me LIKE YOU...
I do care, in fact I would do ANYTHING I could to help someone on here if I could. This place saved my life... .literally.
Last year, TMTS stayed with me all night and we helped each other through the worst parts. I will NEVER forget that night how he helped me and didn't abandon me. How he let me help him and feel like someone useful and worthwhile. I love you TMTS... Merry Christmas to you and I'm so glad your family is reunited.
Queenie, Had a beautiful evening at my daughter's home. She opened up her home to the whole family and DS12 and I had a great time! I made a very large pot of chili (DD request) and it was the hit of the night.
Personal recovery spills over to your family and everyone seemed to be astonished by my demeanor tonight. I am discovering happiness that God places in our hearts if we just ask Him to.
Do I see that you have a birthday coming up in 4 Days?
If so, happy early birthday....
Isn't it amazing how much people notice the difference and peace in ourselves and actually souls.
Constantly I hear that... Now the weight... UGH... but the soul is so at peace....
The chili sounds awesome. I'm into capitalizing financially for us BS's... I'm all about figuring out how to get us all on a cruise where we finally meet, hug and laugh at our lives.
What do ya think... BS's cookbook? I need a little help in the designing, but what if.... we put together a BS survival book that included recipes, nifty dit bits, etc?
I know you celebrate Hanukkah(sorry if it's not spelled correctly) but I wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas. You are in my mind and in my prayers tonight.
First you are right, I really screwed up or got confused with that "other" angie. I looked at the angie1 too fast. I hope you can forgive me for my oversight.
You nailed me but good girl, thank you.
I'm thinking about you and praying for you to have the best Christmas EVER.... You are one special person who G-d loves so much.
Love to cook and have tons of good ol' southern cooking fun I could share, mam!! lol
The cruise idea would be a great time to share all the BS...BS. With all the stories and especially the creative ideas we seem to have....New York Times Bestseller!!
Ohh no problem, I just though it was funny tho. Just to think about what that other angie thought of your post.....LMAO. I will for sure have the best Christmas ever....this is different....I am celebrating our Lord's birth, and it is up to me to focus on the blessings and everything he has given me or to focus on the things I do not have. I rather focus on what I have!!! I have my children, my family, my friends, and now a new friend and that would be you!!! thank you for making me feel special... But most importantly I have HIM!!! LOL
Ohh no problem, I just though it was funny tho. Just to think about what that other angie thought of your post.....LMAO. I will for sure have the best Christmas ever....this is different....I am celebrating our Lord's birth, and it is up to me to focus on the blessings and everything he has given me or to focus on the things I do not have. I rather focus on what I have!!! I have my children, my family, my friends, and now a new friend and that would be you!!! thank you for making me feel special... But most importantly I have HIM!!! LOL
Well, we found our menorah today! My daughter and I were delighted. It was given to me by a friend. I never remember which box I packed it in. So, seeing it was great. Special memories in that thing. A friend sent it to me several years ago. We can't say the prayers but we can pray for peace and love.
You betcha I'm lighting the candles every night with my children. L'dor v'Dor, from generation to generation..... :happyhanukkah:
Hey MY, I heard from a little birdie what you wrote that got edited out. Ok, just so you know that would have HURT deeply, so I'm grateful I am just hearing it now.
It's Christmas Eve for many of MY FAMILY ON HERE, time for RL family, and appreciation for the miracles in life etc.
My life, ME QUEENIE, who I have become is the BIGGEST miracle because it's a process and journey that has been lead by G-d. From where I started to where I am just today. I have achieved and continue to achieve personal recovery DAILY. I may have those set backs, but that's ok, because they become markers for me to work through, seek G-d, celebrate my new life and caring for myself along with seeing how time heals all.
How cool. What kind of a menorah is it? Do you want the transliteration to say the prayers? Mark posted it a few pages back. I can dig it out if you like.
How are you doing tonight?
I hear you have a great weekend coming up. I'm so happy that it worked out for you both.
(The following is said on the first night) Barukh atah Adonai, Eloheinu, melekh ha'olam shehecheyanu v'kiyimanu v'higi'anu laz'man hazeh.
(For those who might not understand the above:)
Blessed are you, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us to light the lights of Chanukkah. Amen
Blessed are you, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe Who performed miracles for our ancestors in those days at this time. Amen
Blessed are you, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe who has kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season. Amen
The way I originally learned it was with the word sovereign replaced by the word King. I learned it in English when I was in grade school.
Mark, you are simply amazing. Are you going to midnight Mass or probably are just coming from there? What was the message if so?
Do you know what I just found. A website that is tracking Santa's route. It's absolutely so cool and if any one reading this has a child up, maybe this would be interesting to you as well. I'm fascinated myself...
Queenie, the menorah is a small gold colored tin menorah. A friend who converted to Judaism bought it years ago as her first menorah. She had acquired nicer one(s) and wasn't using it any more so she sent it to us about 8 or 9 years ago. Almost every year, we put it out.
I know a lot of our friends would think we're nuts but I don't care....they also wouldn't understand that, when we had to find a new family Christmas Eve tradition, we chose to stay home and roast kosher beef hot dogs over a fire in our fireplace, eat s'mores and cheesecake, and play games. Tonight is the first Christmas Eve in about 4 years that I've spent with my mom. It was really nice. Really nice.
I'm glad you had a great time tonight. Another notch in the continued healing process, wouldn't ya say.
Though I personally like your new tradition..... I love kosher dogs... I'll have to remember that idea for hanukkah when I get a fireplace again. The cheesecake.... yummmy... I'm so glad I don't keep kosher. LOL
Santa just landed in Missoula, MT.... this is just so cool.
Are you thawing out down south? We are one slushy, wet, mess up in the north end. SOOOO glad to see rain today! (How often does that happen in the PNW-that we are glad to see rain?)
It's still SNOWING down here or now it's dry but it was snowing still today. We have probably over a foot. How much did you get?
Yes, I need the rain to come..... Wash this away so I can get out. I have horrible cabin fever.
How was your Christmas?
Luna, I'm learning that fun is a choice. Not one always so easy to make and then there are days when it's not a noticable choice, it just is. I so appreciate those days.
Take care of yourself on your journey. You'll be in my thoughts.
Glad we got to talk to you last night. We've had a fun time. Cinder is the as charming in person as she is on the board. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.
Glad we got to talk to you last night. We've had a fun time. Cinder is the as charming in person as she is on the board. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.
Will catch up later...
Good to talk to you. Take care.......more later. It's been a busy weekend. Gotta go to work in the morning. I think I better get off the computer.
I'm so glad you two had a blast together. I had a wonderful time talking to you both this week, thank you.
Hey JT, yes we are starting to see the green and brown again. It sure is pretty. This has pushed my plans back because I have to do some work that was unexpected, like going up to my boss's on Tuesday and then getting ready for the bridal faire. The plan was to have the stuff done by this weekend and I haven't even gotten the post cards. I hope we don't run out of time, but if we do, how about the first few weeks of January?
Rin,
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I was thinking in regard to the silent treatment and how you can take back that control...
I would love to hear more about this... Rin, after what we talked about do you think I might benefit from looking into a domestic violence support group to help me sort out and truly begin to understand what happened in my M?
In terms of where I am at with D. I am legally separated and looking at hauling him back into court for not paying me the child support that was ordered.
Hi Angie, I'm so glad you started a thread to help you work through this and I see Mortarman has been talking to you. WOW, that is very cool. I don't have much experience with him, but I know what an amazing help he was with Mimi and she speaks very highly of him.
My Skins lost their last game... Ended up 8-8. Not a very good season. Oh well, on to next year.
IMHO, I think that you need to get on with your life and D his happy "[censored]"et! That's the last thing he thinks that you will do...this way you are taking CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE and he doesn't have that control...I think that you are right to take him back to court...he make the bed, he needs to lie in it, whereever that may be! This is you taking care of yourself and the kids, this is not you punishing him...strictly business!
You may benefit from it...at least go and listen a few times...I did go to a few meetings...but my program helped me more...can't hurt none!
You may benefit from it...at least go and listen a few times...I did go to a few meetings...but my program helped me more...can't hurt none!
There is a jewish program called Dvora project.... I plan to call them this week or next week. It certainly can't hurt.
I tend to agree with you on the D. I don't think he would be expecting that at all. The truth is I don't know if I EVER will be ready to be D from him, but maybe it's just something I have to do like Plan B and trust G-d to help me through it.
I have to wait on my finances because if I file then it will cost ME instead of him.
Yes, as soon as the New Year hits, I am so calling the A to get his butt back into court for child support.
Can't you go to legal aid or something on that one...you can also file the paperwork yourself...or at least you can here...my sister went through legal aid and it cost her VERY LITTLE...
I wouldn't be surprised if he came out of the woodwork once the D is filed...especailly if there's consequences that involve money and him have to pay you a good bit...I would go after everything that you can...lawyer's fee, alimony, of course, not expecting to EVER get it, but a stick to your guns, I'm tired of your crap, there ARE consequences for your behavior kind of thing...
JUSTICE! I'm pretty hard core about following through with POWS and his crap...basically, if you do A, then I'm doing B...and he'll HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT! All legal...business!
It is exactly like PLan B and God will get you through...I filed but really didn't want the D...still hoped for recovery in a lot of ways...but like I said the other night, the furthur I walked, the more my mind set changed...remember from, maybe in a few years we'll get back together, to the stroke victim, to today, HE)) NO, NEVER!
Hi Angie, Nope, never have posted a picture. Don't know how.
But sweet of you to ask. You are very special to me, you know that?
Rin, There is MUCH financiall issues unresolved and filing for D doesn't appear to be the smart way to go. Especially when you consider I am absolutely going after him financially and getting EVERYTHING I possibly can get.
I warned him jokingly, don't EVER forget I'm the first wife with the children. His track record on child support, keeping in touch with the children, etc. can't help his case.
But if I'm really honest, and don't hit me for it yet, I'm just afraid. I'm afraid I won't have the strength and perserverance to fight him on every level. But if I was abused that would be normal, right? Not believing I am strong enough to take him on?
In a fifty-fifty state, do consequences to one's behavior make a difference?
Yes, as soon as the New Year hits, I am so calling the A to get his butt back into court for child support.
Why not make that call TODAY??? Even if the A is not in the office, if you leave a message today, then YOUR message will be one of the first he gets when returning to the office. Follow it up with a call on Friday and another on Monday.
This isn't just about you, it's about the kids & making WH do what is RIGHT. Don't wait!
I think that you need to get d@mn good and mad like Luna finally did. At this point, you are sitting by while he has fun for free and at your expense. Get mad girl!!!!
Remember, crack-ho gets what you and your children don't get.
But if I'm really honest, and don't hit me for it yet, I'm just afraid. I'm afraid I won't have the strength and perserverance to fight him on every level. But if I was abused that would be normal, right? Not believing I am strong enough to take him on?
....unless I didn't understand right, Queennie, sounds you would only be requiring him to follow through with what has been already been legally determined he owes you. I don't see any grey areas...or do you see any 'legal ways' your WS can walk away from not fulfilling his financial responsibilities towards you? Maybe you can get some 'free' consultation about what it would cost to pursue the matter...and what it would take to enforce the current CS ruling.
Well, I should have check back sooner. No, I haven't called the A yet. I'm just afraid. I'm sorry to let you down, but I just simply to scared to make this next step.. Yes, the courts gave me the money, but facing WH is just too much at me.
The holidays just simply have taken their toll on me. Snowbound for over a week, isolating and broke... :crosseyedcrazy:
Lucky me, I have the bridal faire this weekend and tomorrow as a gift to myself for my 25th anniversary I get to stuff 2000 envelopes. In a way, it's a good way for me to generate some income and become independent of WH.
For all of my MB family, may this year be filled of blessings, hopes and promises for the brightest, healthiest, properous and peaceful days ahead for all of us.....
I've spent the last 24 hours going from major depression to better to major depression to taking my power back (go read my "Wavering" thread...) circumstances are not the same but the bottom line is that you DESERVE to take care of yourself and your children and your WH ain't gonna do it for you!!
You're "learning to love yourself". Loving yourself includes standing up for yourself and holding other people accountable for their behavior - including poor, destructive behavior.
Taking power is scary because it finally means you're taking full responsibility for yourself. And that can feel like being alone. But the truth is that it will bring people to you like you won't believe. Nothing sexier, more attractive, more interesting or more capable than an empowered woman.
You're not lashing out, being mean, or setting yourself up for rejection. You were already dismissed. That life is over.
In this new life, you'll only get your power back if you take it. And in this case, it's right in front of you. You have to do this to really begin anew.
. I'm just afraid. I'm sorry to let you down, but I just simply to scared to make this next step.. Yes, the courts gave me the money, but facing WH is just too much at me.
The holidays just simply have taken their toll on me. Snowbound for over a week, isolating and broke...
Lucky me, I have the bridal faire this weekend and tomorrow as a gift to myself for my 25th anniversary I get to stuff 2000 envelopes. In a way, it's a good way for me to generate some income and become independent of WH.
I am sure Queenie that you are doing the best you can, and you are not letting anyone down. What you are doing however is depriving yourself of what is rightfully yours....
and if I understand it right... your wanting to avoid 'facing WH' means foregoing measures requiring your WS to fulfill his financial responsibilities just so you not literally risk SEEING or BEING in the same room as your WS?
I know the holidays can be tough as triggers can be numerous. Hopefully this too shall pass and you will find the strength to be able to claim what is rightfully yours... and good for you if you are finding ways to generate some income and be less dependent on WS.
Do you think you can at least ask your A what the procedure entails, share some of your fears, and then sit on it for a bit before making a decision?
I'm not trying to hijack your thread, Queenie, but I noticed last night that our situations are somewhat similar (similar ages, length of marriage, kids ages, first love, first A, lost of respect, low self-esteem, not crack ho but 2-time divorcee with 3 kids, etc.). Could you please provide a synopsis of your timeline? Like...time from start of A to d-day, length of Plan As, length of Plan Bs, were there more than one As and Bs, any false recoveries along the way (like did he ever move back home?), D filed (or not filed) and by whom, etc. I'm just curious if my situation is normal or not. FYI, my WH has changed his mind multiple-times this year between me and her. This has resulted in him moving out of our home 5 times since D-day. Yep, this really sucks for me and the kids.
I like Luna's idea of learning more about what the procedure would be like. In my experience, the more information I have about something that makes me really anxious, the better I am able to handle it.
Queenie, You are a great support person for some of us. Actually, all of us!
I have had a hard time lately and found myself questioning everything...but you know what? I sought God harder than before, and somehow gained peace again.
You have and still are a great inspiration to me.
So....get your rear end on this forum and share with me :RollieEyes:
BEEP... BEEP... BEEP... THIS IS A QUEENIE ALERT... QUEENIE ALERT... THIS IS A BOLO/APB FOR ONE MISSING QUEENIE... PLEASE REPORT ANY SIGHTINGS IMMEDIATELY TO YOUR NEAREST MB POSTER... NOW BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM...
I'm not trying to hijack your thread, Queenie, but I noticed last night that our situations are somewhat similar (similar ages, length of marriage, kids ages, first love, first A, lost of respect, low self-esteem, not crack ho but 2-time divorcee with 3 kids, etc.). Could you please provide a synopsis of your timeline? Like...time from start of A to d-day, length of Plan As, length of Plan Bs, were there more than one As and Bs, any false recoveries along the way (like did he ever move back home?), D filed (or not filed) and by whom, etc. I'm just curious if my situation is normal or not. FYI, my WH has changed his mind multiple-times this year between me and her. This has resulted in him moving out of our home 5 times since D-day. Yep, this really sucks for me and the kids.
Hi Holy, Happy New Year and nice to meet you. Please feel free to always thread jack. I love talking to other people about THEIR life…. Let me see if I can answer you in a way that’s helpful.
A started somewhere May 06, D-day May 07, I plan A’d almost from the beginning without realizing that I was doing it. I signed on MB 6-16-07. I didn’t have any mentors at that time and will wonder if I lost ground because WH was somewhat cake eating at that point. Information about OW started to get divulged, like she was a heroin addict, crack addict, etc. There was one point in 8-07 when we took a family trip to CA for a wedding and that following week he told me he was coming home, because she had gone out and used and was gone over night. But they went to a funeral of the person they lived with and in the end he told me I helped him decide and he wanted more than to be married to his best friend.
I would have to say I Plan A’d from D-day until March 16, 08. In October 07, I plan B’d him, but Mimi took me under her wings, explained that I didn’t set up a Plan B good enough and we strategize to begin Plan A again only much more aggressive. G-d it was so hard, but I did it and to toot my own horn… I did a great Plan A…. under the circumstances, it was created, fun, original, and daring. Not my fault he was too stupid to figure out I was the better option.
I served WH with legal separation papers on 3-14-08 and then on 3-17-08 I delivered my Plan B letter and told WH I was setting him free. It was the last time I talk to him, looked him in the eye, held him in my arms and just hugged him. For one split second, he hugged me back. And then I walked out of his life and into darkness and stay there today.
There have been no false recoveries, he never moved back home and I was pushed to move from my home for financial reasons. He has not filed for D, I have done everything. After almost 30 years he simply walked away and has built a new life without so much as a look back. Not even his kids.
I can’t say if your sitch is typical or not. From what I have read, the back and forth is absolutely a common theme. Mine isn’t - figures……I’m sorry you find yourself here. I hear it often said, it’s the best club you never want to belong to. I’ll be in touch….. Be good to yourself… and ask away if you have any questions.
Hi Luna,
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Do you think you can at least ask your A what the procedure entails, share some of your fears, and then sit on it for a bit before making a decision?
I can do this. I couldn't do anything before the new year as you all might or might not remember my A was involved in a car accident as well as having a stroke. He should be back to work soon.
Happy New Year, well the anniversary came and went as did the bridal faire. It's been a horribly long vacation and I'm so glad to be back at work. I injured my neck and have been nursing it the last few days. The wedding faire I am involved in, takes a tremendous toll on me physically and emotionally and I just have been coming home and falling asleep.
It feels so nice to be missed. I haven't been to an AA meeting since last Saturday and need to get there tonight. I'm in a bad place and that's the best medicine for me. :twobyfour: I'm learning that when the self-pity takes over... a good dose that I'm not so special is what helps.
Hi Mark, Chai, Cinderella, PM, I missed you guys so much. I get that standing up for myself is one of the best ways for me to learn to love myself. I can promise you I am asking G-d for the strength to do this. But I could use your prayers right now on that one.
I'll call the A tomorrow and see what kinds of information I can get and go from there.
Very astute notation Mark, I actually have been avoiding life and stuffing in so many ways.
I finally have gone back to my AA meetings on a more regular basis and sat down and spoke with my sponsor for 3 hours today. We cleared up some stuff and she is really pushing me hard that WH isn't going to come home.
Why would I want who he has become? It's interesting, for so long I bought into the fact that I believed that if the A ended he would become the good man that I love so dearly. But really, who the heck am I kidding. He isn't coming home. He walked away and is just done.
Like Chai, did I ever really even know my H. Or am I just a stupid pathetic woman who has such a low self-esteem that she would desparately hang on to a man that clearly prefers a crack addict to her.
My ego, still hurt. But I seem to be more willing to face the inevitable and take steps to begin the D process. I don't want this, I wish I knew the end, but I don't and no one supports the possibility that he could end his A and just walk away and not give one look. Chai, I am so with you, I don't understand after all these years, did we just not mean anything to them. Was our lives comepletely lies? What a fricking loser I must be to hold on to a loser to prefers white trash than a family of love.
So, what does that mean. I'm looking into online divorces, making a list of what is still between WH and myself and seeing if I can just get it over with.
I read the stories of marriages who have recovered only to see A happen again and I'm disheartened. I read stories of WH who when in Plan B, try to play their games and stay involved. Not the monster in my life. He is gone, gone as my best friend, my H, the father of my children and any other link in my old life.
I'm embarrassed that after all this time I still have these moments, but the reality is I'm stuffing, I'm back to avoiding and I'm gaining weight and I don't want to live like this.
Oh, Queenie: It pains me to hear you speak of yourself this way. But, I confess, I do the same. How can our WH leave us amazing women for OW who lack character, morals, whatever... These are not good women. Women who are willing to hurt other women. How dare they?
And they don't just hurt us. They hurt our children. They hurt our extended families and friends. But most of all, they hurt our WH's by turning them away from God and what really matters in life -- family.
I know, I know. Our WHs are to blame. But these OW -- they tempt and they taunt. And many of them are mothers themselves. What kind of a mother does this?
We are not to blame, Queenie. Perhaps we (gasp!) focused more on kids and family then spoiling our H's. How could we? But did our H's speak up and ask for more attention? Hardly. We were suppose to be partners in this arrangement. We were suppose to focus on our family instead of selfishly on each other or ourselves. We were comfortable with each other. We were not suppose to stray from each other in THAT way. We trusted each other like old married couples are suppose to do!
Queenie -- we did know our H's before the A. They were our partners in love and life. We knew them for years and years. Like you, my H and I were high school sweethearts -- together for 30 years.
But today, he is a stranger. And not just a stranger to me but to our kids and his own parents. He is not my H. He is not the amazing dad he used to be. He has sacrificed everything for a life planned out by the devil himself. Pretty scary!
We need to hold our heads high, Queenie. We have fought and will continue to fight for M and family, for loyalty and faithfulness, for respect and honor, and for true love. And, ultimatley, we may lose the M and our Hs. But could we NOT have done what we did? Could we NOT have tried and tried? We're not like that. You and me and others are just those kind of people who believe in what is right. We had to go the distance. We had to try everything. We were unwilling to just walk away when we found out about the A. I think the harder the try to save the M, the deeper the love for H.
Yep, you've been at it longer than me. I've been fighting for a year now. Heard yesterday from FIL that WH is getting ready to file. And he and the kids are at war via text messaging. I'm no longer the buffer (since I'm in Plan B), so kids are letting him have it both barrels. He doesn't like it -- demanding they treat him with respect. Can you believe it? Says there will be repercussions for their actions. Like what, I want to ask. But I stay silent. It's between him and them at this point. They are venting in a big way. And this is their only way to vent to him since he's been gone 2 weeks and hasn't even visited them.
So, Queenie -- let's keep the faith. Miracles do happen.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. This is just exactly what I needed. I'm so sorry you are struggling, but I'm so glad you are in my life. I sense a strength in you that I don't have yet, but I promise I am working hard.
Like I told my sponsor today, all I have is my TRUST in G-d that I can survive this, and be ok with however the outcome is to be.
In numbers, Holyheart, keeping the faith seems so much easier. Thank you....
I hope to get to know you better and walk through life with you
Queenie, I don't know. I really wonder. WH used to work with a distant relative of my dad's, and she called me recently to find out how my mom was. I hadn't spoken to her in many years, but when she asked about WH, I told her what happened and she said she was truly shocked. She said that when she worked with him she never observed anything that would cause her to think he would do something like this. Was she truthful? Who knows. Maybe they (WHs) just changed. Kind of like a male menopause thing.
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Chai, I am so with you, I don't understand after all these years, did we just not mean anything to them. Was our lives comepletely lies?
It does feel like your whole life was a lie, doesn't it? I feel that way too. I think we meant something to them, but that whole romantic love thing with the OP drowns out any feelings they have for us so they think that they don't love us anymore. The brain chemicals working overtime make them feel giddy, and they are convinced it will last. We all know how those things wear off though, and in time they will be back in the same situation they once had with us. Only then, they will have many more complicating factors to deal with.
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What a fricking loser I must be to hold on to a loser to prefers white trash than a family of love.
Queenie, you aren't the loser. Neither am I - our WH's are the losers. I was down on myself for a while because when I heard that WH's A ended, I couldn't understand why he didn't come back. I felt like he was sending the message that having nothing was better than having me. But honestly, I think he can't face me. Maybe that isn't it. Maybe he just doesn't love me. I don't think it has anything to do with me being a loser or not. He just isn't happy with me. And you know what? I'm not sure I would be happy with him anymore either.
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I'm embarrassed that after all this time I still have these moments, but the reality is I'm stuffing, I'm back to avoiding and I'm gaining weight and I don't want to live like this.
We will have these moments for the rest of our lives I think. I don't think you ever get over this, truly. In time though, they will become less and less.
But I think our WH's personalities changed due to MLC.
A woman who my WH worked with for years was shocked to hear of my circumstances. Shocked because she said that WH always looked down on guys who messed around behind their S's backs. His favorite saying was "cheaper to keep her" and "Why would anyone want a girlfriend and a wife? Who would want to deal with more than one woman at a time?"
Fast forward to today and his new sayings are: "You never know until you're in that situation." "I'll never judge anyone ever again." "Everyone married is miserable." "Everyone cheats on their spouse. They're just hypocrites and stay married."
So I guess he wants to do the "honorable" thing. D me, disown the kids, and marry OW. What a guy!!
"Why would anyone want a girlfriend and a wife? Who would want to deal with more than one woman at a time?"
:MrEEk: LOL, Mine, who actually told me that he liked having his wife and GF at the same time!
I WAS SHOCKED OF COURSE!
Of course, I can joke about it now! It's POWS! Piece of wayward Sh)))!!!! LOL
I had more to say but I should be in bed right now...will have to sleep on it and get back!
Queen, I'm so proud of you! It's hard facing the things that we have faced and you ARE facing them head on...right now...this moment...you're tirning over a new leaf...WOW, huh? Look how amazing you are, the growth..
Cinderella, I think we would LOVE to hear about your thoughts on MLC and males...
It's funny, I think I have caught a glimpse of understanding why Plan B isn't as dark as it should be. I keep wondering about the what if's, wanting answers to something that I simply may never get and it's DRIVING ME INSANE. Literally, it's driving me insane. It's consuming my thoughts.
That's how my life is unmanageable.
I'm smarter than this... I'm a survivor and yet I continually allow this piece of crap WH influence my LIFE in everyway inmagineable. Over and over again I allow myself to become this stupid victim where I grip about my circumstances and I should know better. I should be grateful for what I do have.
Let's see.... magnificent relationships with ALL THREE OF MY CHILDREN... my health, albeit a lot heavier...., a job, a roof over my head, my sobriety, friends who love me, and most of all a intimate loving relationship with my G-d.
What does piece of crap WH have.... no relationship with any of HIS childen, a possibility of contracting hepatitis c because he's too stupid to protect himself, a dry drunk as deep as anyone can tell, no friends who want to have anything to do with him, and NO relationship with G-d.
Like Mark reminds me over and over again, I need to stop whining about what I DON'T have and be GRATEFUL for what I do have.
My sponsor made the weirdest comment to me, she said when we packed up all the books in my house, clearly you could see that I was the one to always do everything in my M. I tried fixing it by reading all those books, I did the bills, I did the taxes, I did the almost everything. He did the children and played with them along with his sports.
So why would I think that he would file for D. I did EVERYTHING in our M except walk away from it when I was SO UNHAPPY... I kept TRYING because I believe in the covenant and belief that we would work it out somehow, someway. I kept blaming myself. And here that piece of crap WH still holds his power because I am STILL punishing myself.
So I need input, maybe James if you are reading this because you just went through it, I want to somehow walk into court the most absolute prepared that I can be to show the judge exactly why I deserver EVERYTHING.... Well at least as MUCH as possible.
I am trying to face this head on. I'm not truly prepared or ready for the D, but I wasn't ready for Plan B and I seem to be doing ok. What I don't "get" is WH continually does stuff to LB and yet I keep hanging in there and my stupid love keeps growing. It just simply makes me want to
Oh, here is the latest email that my younger son just showed me that he emailed his dad last week.....
you just lost any hope of getting to be my dad again. you dont try to talk to me for over two months. thats it your done your dead to me and i never want to see or talk to you again. dont ever come to my lacrosse games dont even ask i will just say no. you just lost the last child you had. the other ones already hat you and SO do I!! I really wish my kids would have taken after me in spelling and not HIM...
Now WH did call the house last Saturday, didn't leave a message and I told YS that he called. Then WH called the apt yesterday and AGAIN didn't leave a message.. WTF!!!!!! But I cleared my conscience and told YS that he called.
So, as Queenie learns to go to another level of loving herself and moving forward with Plan D, how do I start collecting information. What do I need to concentrate on, what's going to have the most impact on the judge.
Oh, and one more tattling on myself. I have gained 50 lbs. I'm avoiding going into court because WH will see that I gained back most of my weight. In the back of my head I guess I really lost it for him AGAIN and when it didn't WORK THIS TIME EITHER.... I just started sabotaging until here I am embarrased again that I am FAT... :twobyfour:
I'm working hard girl to push through this and come out on top. I really am. It's just so unnatural....
You know Chai, I need to apolgize to you. I remember so many phone calls when you cried over the pain and I kept saying trust G-d, he has a better plan. But the truth is, I didn't listen to you. I didn't hear YOUR pain and I'm so sorry. I fortunately get to understand YOUR pain better now and I just have nothing but the ABSOLUTE MOST RESPECT for you and how you have walked through this.
What I don't "get" is WH continually does stuff to LB and yet I keep hanging in there and my stupid love keeps growing.
What do you mean your "LOVE KEEPS GROWING"?
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I have gained 50 lbs.
That's A LOT in a short amount of time, Queenie.
Are you going to OA?
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In the back of my head I guess I really lost it for him AGAIN and when it didn't WORK THIS TIME EITHER.... I just started sabotaging until here I am embarrased again that I am FAT...
I'm not trying to 2X4 you.
I'm REALLY WORRIED.
I've been thinking that this is going on and didn't know what to say.
You know Chai, I need to apolgize to you. I remember so many phone calls when you cried over the pain and I kept saying trust G-d, he has a better plan. But the truth is, I didn't listen to you. I didn't hear YOUR pain and I'm so sorry. I fortunately get to understand YOUR pain better now and I just have nothing but the ABSOLUTE MOST RESPECT for you and how you have walked through this.
You are an amazing GODDESS......
Uh, Queenie. I did exactly what you said to do - I trusted in God. How else do you think I got to this point? Now you need to do the same girlfriend. Apology? You owe me no apology whatsoever. I owe you my gratitude for showing me the way via Godquest (as opposed to Mapquest).
Queenie, 50 lbs is a lot. Please try to get this under control. Have you tried Weight Watchers? Perhaps there are others here who would be interested in a Goddess Diet Thread and we could post menus to follow everyday and give support to help stay on the plan. I'm not too familiar with it, but I understand it has a point system. Do you know about it?
I struggle with my weight, too - especially during times of great stress or trauma. When I lost my last shot at having a child (lost my baby girl at 5 1/2 months) I gained ALOT of weight in a short time. I was talking to my mom at one point in the middle of that and saying my eating seemed compulsive. She said "well, yes, because you're 'stuffing your feelings'". The idea being that I was stuffing myself, rather than feeling.
I know you're feeling. But I do have a suggestion nonetheless. In addition to starting a program of some sort to deal with the eating (WW with points, OA with sponsor/steps - whichever - the structure REALLY HELPS - lots of stuff online now) -- get a blank notepad and keep it within 1 step of the fridge. Another one next to the pantry. Keep one (and a pen) wherever you go for food in the house.
Each and every time you go for food - regular meals, snacks, whatever - stop first, grab the pad, and make yourself write down what you're feeling. The rule is - you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY don't get to eat until you've written an entire page.
It may be that you're not feeling much. Or it may be that you're feeling anxious. Or it may be that you're sad. Whichever. Take the time to explore the feeling. The question for each and every page is - "What am I feeling?" - and, once you've identified it, "What is this feeling ABOUT?"
1 page. More if you feel like it. Then put the pad down and (if you're snacking) go do something else. Preferably outside.
See what you come up with. I bet after several of these sessions with the pen and pad, you'll start to see the same things cropping up over and over again. But start first; do it for a week and see what happens.
I have spoken to Queenie about this..on this very thread..suggesting Weight Watchers, etc. and she has insisted on the need for OA..that was weeks or maybe even months ago...
Hi Miss Mimi, Happy New Year. I hope all is well with you.
I did go to OA or rather Eating Addicts Anonymous. I gained 30 of those pounds within two months of going to those meetings.
There is NO DOUBT, I'm stuffing, I'm running, I'm in my dry drunk and I am back at square one.
I worked very diligently at my sponsors house yesterday.
I admitted I'm powerless over food and that my life has become unmanangeable.
How has my life become unmanageable, I'm broke, I'm running, I'm isolating, I'm not going to meetings, I'm not talking to my AA sponsor and I'm stuffing terribly.
My weight coming back has been happening for months. Something triggered it, but I simply don't know what. I wish I did, because I hate gaining weight and being fat again. I'm embarrased to go to AA meetings because I was doing so well. I'm embarrased to face WH in court because I'm almost the fat blob I was.
Sabotaging myself is my comfort zone. I'm sure MOST of YOU can't relate, but it is. So this is my plan of action that I came up with on my sponsor.
I am to attend a minimum of 3 AA meetings a week, not including my EAA meeting. No more isolating. I have to talk to my sponsor at the minimum every other day and text her all day long. We have the same company. I need to start my divorce plans by doing the footwork that I can, that's why I have asked for help.
It took me 16 years to figure out I was in a dry drunk. I'm grateful it was only a month this time. I'm crawling for survival. I could really start to beat myself up and that would take me down again. I refused a piece of candy at the meeting tonight, in the last 4 days I have been to four meetings plus a long time with my sponsor.
I am saying the fear prayer over and over again... G-d please remove my fear and direct my attention to being the healthier, thinner woman you would have me be. And saying the serenity prayer.
9 years ago I lost 70 lbs with H was living home because he wanted me to lose weight. That didn't make him happy. In the back of my mind, I believed that this time, losing all that weight would make him happy and trust that I had changed and in the end he would come home. Didn't happen. So, I think unconsciously I hurt myself because I didn't make him happy. :crosseyedcrazy:
I'm sure to all you healthy people you can't imagine someone doing this stuff, but in my world it seemed reasonable.
Thanks Chai for your kindess and forgiveness. I appreciate it so much. I can't promise I'll do a page Miriam, but I can promise that I'll write down on paper my feelings as much as I can. Will start there, ok?
I think that you have a plan and are moving in the right direction...in regard to writing the page, perhaps you can post here OR write the page...
That way WE can support you too!
Perhaps you can start out by writing: I was feeling like eating something so instead I decided to post my real feeling here...you also need to have a reward system for doing well when you do not eat...
I was a powerlifter in college and one thing I learned was discpline from the experience...IT'S SOOOOO HARD, but when you ahve to lose weight quickly for a meet, you learn that you need a plan...The Tuesday before national I was as my target weigh to compete and weigh in wasn't until Friday, when I got there I had lose 5 lbs...
The main thing I can not stress enough is to eat breakfast...it jump start your metabolism...I'm not talking a huge breakfast...I'm talking about a bowl of oatmeal or grits whereever you perfer...the great thing about that is that it's mostly water but gives you what you need...
Two hours later, I would be hungry, so I would have some crackers, Wheat THins are something and would actually count out how many was in a serving...IT WAS SOOOO HARD...I've had to do this over the years because I have gone on my own crazy STUFFING stages...I gained 30lbs in no time, waking up in the middle of the night when POWS and I was still together and would eat WHATEVER I could find...
Anyway, I would eat lunch, a can of soup or more oatmeal, and then two hours later another serving of a snack...the object is to eat six small meals a day...
Whatever you want to weigh add a zero to the end of that number and that's the amount fo calories that you need to take in a day...this will work by itself for a little while without anymore activity from you, but then your body will get use to it...
I actually did this five days a week, on the weekends I rewarded myself but still limited my portion...if I wanted chocolate, I ate it, because if you are craving something, you're body needs it...I know that there are other issues here and IT IS HARD WORK, you know that! What I'm offering is support, just like everyone else...I know the struggles and I am more than happy to support you...
BTW, I took 5th place in my weigh class that year. I was up for third but messed up my knee on my last deadlift. I tried to lift in another competition the following year but my fear got in the way and I bombed out. I never lifted again competition wise. I sabotaged myself with my own fears but I was/still am proud of the success that I had...it's ALL a learning process Queen...
That's how personal success is made...you may have lose THAT battle but you haven't lost the fight!
Let's walk through the other side together!
Rooting for you all the way! Progress not prefection, ok?
Second-I hope you stayed high and dry during the recent floods. We were fine in my part of the valley. Can't say the same for the woman who was washed down the hill in her house from a mudslide.
Just wanted to let you know you are on my heart and in my prayers.
You know what you need to do, but you are stuck in that "beating yourself up for letting this happen" place. THAT place gets you no where but further into your darkness.
Go back to Mimi's question, "how is this loving Queenie?"
Turn your focus back to LOVING Queenie...not condemning Queenie.
If you haven't got a page in you, that's fine. The key is to be in touch with your feelings before you eat. Do a paragraph.
I've been there. Really. Just recognize that this is something you did to yourself while you were in pain...and the last thing you need is more pain!
Being good to ourselves is not the same as indulging ourselves - in food, alcohol, drugs, emotion, angry behaviors, etc. I don't know about you but I have to remind myself of that about 20 times a week. :crosseyedcrazy:
Hi JT, Oh gosh, I hope that lady is ok, do you know anything of her? I'll be praying for sure.
My SMB, long time no hear. How are you? No, I'll admit that gaining weight in the end isn't loving me, but I am really being careful to not beat myself up which I am really good at doing.
I'll find the strength to work through this like I do everything else. I just seem to be in "that stage of growth" that we all know so well and don't like.
Ok, Miriam, I'll write my thoughts down before I eat starting tomorrow.
Chai, I will let you help me, but right now I need prayers and guidance for what food plan is where G-d wants me to be.
I have thought alot about it, and I am thinking that my two bottom lines need to be stay away from sugar and no late night eating. So, I'm going to start praying for guidance and see where he leaves me.
WH's state money hasn't come through today, but I did contact the state office and left a message asking for help. I have begun to figure out a timeline of everything from D-day. Meetings between WH and me, meetings with his children, those won't be hard to remember... seeing I could almost count them on my hands, my Plan A, my Plan B, etc. Everything and anything that will help me build a case that I deserve more than 50-50 after this.
I may be an idiot in still loving my H, but with G-ds grace, I'm somehow going to pull off finding the strength to know I went down without a fight to the bitter end in claiming what is MINE. I don't know what that will look like, but I can promise you it won't be thin.
A part of me wonders if I should start printing up this thread to back up where I got my advice, that I tried everything to make my marriage recover, that he really did abandon my children and me and left me with EVERYTHING to pick up and move forward while he played.
This will take me time to prepare and once done I'll contact my A for 2 years from D-day and set into motion my D. I'm not ready to face this day today. I'm not even ready to imagine my M is over, but he isn't EVER coming home. I have FAITH in G-d, I have TRUST that there is something as good for me out there. And if WH and I are really to be together, then getting D doesn't mean we can't find ourselves back to each other.
Can I just say, for the record. I love my H, I would have done ANYTHING, sold my soul, given up anything to be given the chance to R. But he doesn't want me or our life. Even I deserve a little happiness in the end....
This place has helped you thus far, how about giving weight-loss through MB a try. Go jump on Ace's Smiles and Trials thread where the conversation seems to have turned to weight loss/fitness in the past few days.
I'll admit that gaining weight in the end isn't loving me, but I am really being careful to not beat myself up which I am really good at doing.
I'll find the strength to work through this like I do everything else. I just seem to be in "that stage of growth" that we all know so well and don't like.
Overeating is beating yourself up, isn't it? What do you mean by "that stage of growth that we all know so well and don't like"? I have no idea what you are talking about...
Sugar has always been a trigger for me. I seem to not have the will power or ability to say no after I get sugar into my system. I'm not saying sweets, just sugar... and the various forms...
G-d Mimi I have missed you so much. You were GONE... Just GONE and I floundered in moving forward.
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The BOTTOM LINE is for you to LOVE YOURSELF enough to work on being HEALTHY.
IMO, this is more important than considering divorce right now..focusing on SELF-CARE seems essential.
I am TRYING to get HEALTHY and practive SELF-CARE.. I'm not getting my D today, but moving forward and preparing myself, like I did when I moved into Plan B.
I feel lost, I feel like Plan B is just floundering and my life is on hold in so many ways. I'm stuffing the pain of missing my H, I'm trying to process and move through the grieving and feel the feelings, but I'm just simply stuck.
So I'm praying for G-ds guidance and will in my life. It keeps coming back to let him go and one more way is to take care of myself by preparing myself in little increments for the D. If it doesn't happen, great, but I'm moving.
Self-care is preparing myself, nurturing myself to the point that I accept what happens and be prepared. Does that make sense.
Does that make sense. You helped me through my darkest time in my life. I did so well and now I have to fight for the light again. I need to prepare myself to walk into the next phase with my head up, my chest out and the love shining in my heart for my H and loving him and me enough to say it's ok to move on.
Hey Queenie (JT waving from the soggy north valley)
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Oh gosh, I hope that lady is ok, do you know anything of her? I'll be praying for sure.
From what I got on the news, she ended up with just a few scrapes and bruises. But, she didn't have insurance so there is a fund that's been set up for her at the local bank. Since the story made it on The Today Show the next day, I think she'll be okay.
Did you hear that Maple Valley made it on the ABC news on Thursday 1-8-09 for flooding. I know it was bad. But seriously, there is Carnation, Index, Pacifica...
I was stunned to see it.
Our snow was worse than the rains, in fact if I didn't read about things or watch it in the news, I wouldn't have known anything was going on. Last night I did however walk by part of the Cedar River and it was raging.... And that was two days after it crested.
I'm glad you are ok. I'm glad that lady is ok health wise. Send me some information on donating to her and if WH comes through with money i'll give some to her.
Did you see the reports, it's supposed to have that shiny star in the forecast all week and almost be in the high 40's, possibly 50 even.
Did you hear that Maple Valley made it on the ABC news on Thursday 1-8-09 for flooding. I know it was bad. But seriously, there is Carnation, Index, Pacifica...
Yep! That's why I kept checking in...calling, posting, etc.
I wanted to make sure I didn't need to send Noah and his ark your way.
You called? On what number? I didn't get any calls from you at least my phone didn't show it.
I would have called you back... As for the posting, Mark nailed me, I was avoiding my thread.. Feeling sorry for myself and being way too confused on life... I got into such a funk I couldn't get myself out of it.
It was bad, but where I live.... NADA, the snow was way worse on me.....
I'm tired of the rain..... the storms...
Thanks for checking up on me.... Of course I could have been a good friend and made sure you were ok..... :twobyfour:
My sponsors working on the "all about me" attitude....
It's the weirdest thing. What causes the sad mood to take me down for so long and for no apparent reason I feel better and feel like I can recover. I feel insane.....
Hey Pretty Girl, I have missed you so much. :happynewyear:
I read two things going on in your last post, if I may share my experience with you.
First, on the weight gain. This is just MY experience, but maybe it will help you. I have struggled and am still struggling with weight, so I can't tell you how to lose it. But I think I know WHY I get fatter. After EX left, I gained weight again. I was very confused and surprised that he left and I think I subconsciously (sp) gained weight to make it make sense. " Of course he doesn't love me, I am too fat I gained 25-30 pounds after D-day. I really think I needed a tangible reason why I was not a candidate for WH.
OK, so now I look at the blob in the mirror and I can justify Ex's rejection. Logically, this doesn't make sense, since I wasn't this size when he left, but I don't get into logical details like that, it messes up my justification .
Now, keeping the weight on also serves a purpose. It keeps new relationships out of reach. My fat suit force field, if you will. As long as a have my fat suit force field, I don't have to take a chance on getting hurt again. Again, there is no logical reason for this thinking, I am not an ogre, it is not the weight that makes me unattractive, it is my "stay out of my face" face. But, the theory works for me.
I did this before, during my marriage to Ex, I was very depressed, and there was always sexual rejection (even at my "wedding weight"). After 10 years of rejection without explanation, I think I took matters into my own hands and puffed up so I could have a reason for the rejection.
Anyway, that is my experience with weight gain. Sure, there are crappy food choices in there, but for me, it is more of this mental issue. I am afraid of looking good, it would confuse me.
Secondly, on the prepping for divorce work. I was still in love with Ex on our divorce day and for quite awhile after that. But I came to a point where I had to be realistic about how being legally entangled with him would have long term affects on my future. We weren't planning for success together so he was just a legal liability I needed to be unburdened from. The falling out of love took much longer.
For a long time, I held out hope that we could reconcile and possibly remarry. But he has become someone I would not consider for marriage. There is still a tiny bit of "what if" in my heart, as he might change and become the man I thought he was. But it is a very small hope, microscopic actually, kinda like the crush I had on George Clooney during his ER days. Yeah, it could happen, but very, very small chance, so don't bank on it.
Another thing I tend to do, bargaining with G-d, as in, I will act like I don't care about Ex and that is when G-d will bring him back to me, after I have finally given up. For the record, that never works either.
Queenie...the reality is...that you are learning new tools... and like anything else.... each time we pick them up again, we get better at using them....so, even IF think you are back at square one? I KNOW you can and will MOVE OUT OF IT quicker....because it takes TOO MUCH work to ignore what you know you can do....NOW that you did not know before!
t/j to Jean:
I want to thank you as a 'lurker' as I really appreciated your post to Queenie. It helps me a lot in understanding how far some us are prepared to go just to 'make some sense' out what is happening to us, or wanting to 'appear' that things are as they were before...to the point of making very unhealthy decisions if need be... thanks again.
Quote:I'll admit that gaining weight in the end isn't loving me, but I am really being careful to not beat myself up which I am really good at doing.
I'll find the strength to work through this like I do everything else. I just seem to be in "that stage of growth" that we all know so well and don't like.
Overeating is beating yourself up, isn't it? What do you mean by "that stage of growth that we all know so well and don't like"? I have no idea what you are talking about...
Yes, overeating can be beating myself up, but for ME, it's been more a protection of myself and stuffing my feelings. My pattern has been to overeat because I'm in pain over something, protect myself, or sabotage myself. The real destruction comes when I start beating myself up for eating and start this vicious circle. And believe me, I can go there. I'm fighting NOT TO....
When we hit "walls" it has been my experience from being on here and going to AA that there is a lessons for me to learn, something that G-d is growing in me. I think that a many of us after so often recognize these situations and try get through them as best as possible.
Does that clear it up Miss Mimi?
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Now, keeping the weight on also serves a purpose. It keeps new relationships out of reach. My fat suit force field, if you will. As long as a have my fat suit force field, I don't have to take a chance on getting hurt again. Again, there is no logical reason for this thinking, I am not an ogre, it is not the weight that makes me unattractive, it is my "stay out of my face" face. But, the theory works for me.
I did this before, during my marriage to Ex, I was very depressed, and there was always sexual rejection (even at my "wedding weight"). After 10 years of rejection without explanation, I think I took matters into my own hands and puffed up so I could have a reason for the rejection.
Anyway, that is my experience with weight gain. Sure, there are crappy food choices in there, but for me, it is more of this mental issue. I am afraid of looking good, it would confuse me.
Sadly, I absolutely can relate to this. WH rejected me over and over again, each and every month for 18 years and finally we somewhat cleared it up, but the damage was done and I internalized it as something was wrong with me. Well of course I would gain more weight.
On my dad's death bed he cared more about me losing weight that having me as his daughter. I wasn't good enough for him and I repeated the stupid pattern with H. Food has been my protection from everything you suggested and more.
The most interesting thing though, is even if my food is clean, something creates the environment that I hold onto the weight NO MATTER WHAT.... and then I'm in this space where my food is clean, it's easy and I'm dropping off weight.
So, this ADDICT keeps it in G-ds hands praying for surrender and the clarity of vision to know what I need to let go over on a deeper level.
One more consideration, before there were drugs in my life... there was food to numb the pain of life..... Putting down the drugs just created the environment to pick up the food and be off in the sick world of pain. I'm not proud, I'm just me. :crosseyedcrazy:
Hi Luna, how are you? I think you are right. As my sponsor said, it took me 16 years to get to that point of complete and utter destruction and many of it from my own doing, and only one month to really figure out what was going on.
All in all, it could have been WAY WORSE and GONE MUCH LONGER.
The most interesting thing though, is even if my food is clean, something creates the environment that I hold onto the weight NO MATTER WHAT.... and then I'm in this space where my food is clean, it's easy and I'm dropping off weight.
I have had this experience and it is good to hear someone else have the same thing happen.
Now I am sure that Weight Watchers or Atkins or whomever would not agree, but I believe you.
I have lost weight when there was no logical reason to and I have held weight when there was no logical reason. I but alot of credence in the minds ability to affect health, I have seen it happen too many times, both positively and negatively in the nursing home.
I recently had another chunk of acceptance come over me and five pounds pretty much just fell off. I remeber seeing a brick of Velveeta in the store and thinking " That much weight just mysteriously fell off my butt "
Of course, I am not saying that a reasonable diet plan is to wait until you get happy and the weight will drop off. I do think that we need to make changes. If nothing else, if I am eating properly, I am demonstrating a willingness for the change to take place. Like I said before, I struggle with that willingness, I would have to let go of my safety suit.
Here is an unrelated weirdness about me. I don't eat PopTarts, I have them in the house since the kids like them, but I don't like them. When I am under stress, I sleep walk, I eat PopTarts during the night. I find the crumbs on my night stand and don't remember getting them. I have considered hypotherapy since this is a very detrimental thing. I have heard that some medications cause sleep eating, but I am not on anything. Go figure :RollieEyes:
I have had this experience and it is good to hear someone else have the same thing happen.
Now I am sure that Weight Watchers or Atkins or whomever would not agree, but I believe you.
No, they probably wouldn't, but I can certainly tell you I am so grateful to have you say you understand.
I don't feel so crazy... :crosseyedcrazy:
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Of course, I am not saying that a reasonable diet plan is to wait until you get happy and the weight will drop off. I do think that we need to make changes. If nothing else, if I am eating properly, I am demonstrating a willingness for the change to take place. Like I said before, I struggle with that willingness, I would have to let go of my safety suit.
I absolutely agree.
You know Jean, I have actually entertained doing hypnosis, but then I wouldn't have money for food. I don't know... My boys wouldn't support that too much.
Just wanted you to know ..... you are NOT alone in the weight struggle! It is something I have struggled and fought with most of my life.
A lot of it comes from the past, how you were raised. As a child, I had the obsessive-compulsive control-freak stepmom who would dish huge amounts of food onto mine and my brother's plates, and then told us we had to clean our plates no matter what. There were days we wouldn't eat breakfast or lunch, then go to Grandma's, who prepared enormous quantities of food, and then gorge ourselves. As a result, we were trained to overeat! Not a problem for my brother, who was skinny with an awesome metabolism. Big problem for me once I hit the teen years. Of course, stepmom did not indulge herself in this pattern; she was a vegetarian and doesn't like sugar, so she always maintained the super-slim figure. My father got onto me throughout my teen years for weight, and was in general quite a jerk about it, but was too weak to stand up to my stepmom about it.
In my late teens, I exercised a lot - I ran track and marathons, and rode my bike for miles! Exercise has never been a problem for me, I've always quite enjoyed it. So during those days I maintained a pretty nice figure. Then I got maried and pregnant at 20, and it was all out the window right then. I have never been able to recapture that weight, and that was 15 years ago.
The good thing is I do have a muscular build, and I am 5'6", so i don't look like I weigh as much as I really do! My issue is mainly food. I am not someone who loses weight easily, either. After my second child, I was going to fitness classes twice a week, going to karate 3 times a week, I could run 5 miles, do 20 male-style push-ups on my knuckles, and bike 20 miles. And I didn't lose a single pound! I was muscular, but it's like the muscles built up and the fat just stayed right where it was.
After my third kid, and around 2005, my eating got way out of control. My issues usually came about a week or two before "that time of the month" and I would get ravenous, I craved anything and everything that was bad for me and I wouldn't get full. I also became extremely tired and exhausted. I was stressed due to ex working 12 hour nights all week, and having a horrible job and taking care of the three kids and household pretty much all by myself. It got really bad. I would buy doughnuts or pecan tarts and eat half a dozen at one sitting. My weight ballooned to my heaviest ever, 253.
My ex left in Feb 2006. I was depressed before, but this worsened the depression and the opposite effect happened, and I wasn't eating. Then DDay happened in June, and I wasn't eating, sleeping, I was chain smoking, and barely functioning. I almost had a complete breakdown. I also lost 45 pounds.
So, here I am now, almost 3 years later. We are divorced. He lives in another state. I am here dealing with issues of unemployment and the economy and I am still overweight!!! But I never give up the fight. My weight inches up and down. Like you, sugar is a major trigger, and I am trying to address the bad habits I learned in my childhood and develop new, healthier habits. It is mental. it is frustrating knowing that I can work so hard and probably exercise more and harder than most thin people I know, yet they get to be thin and I am fat. Biology is extremely unfair. I basically have to cut out everything (sugar, carbs, fats) and eat very little before my body actually starts dropping the weight, and I can't stray or cheat even a little because it starts a downward slide. This is very hard to stick to, especially when raising three healthy, thin kids who eat everything in sight. I have also noticed that most thin people are the ones who don't care for sugar. I had a friend who ate everything - fried foods, meat, eggs, pasta - and she was over 60, but was thin and had a great figure. But she didn't care for sugar. She didn't crave it like I did. If there was cake in the office, she would get a piece, and slowly eat it (with me it was gone in 5 seconds). But she could do without it.
So, anyway, I'm sorry the post is so long. But I wanted you to know you are not the only one who has these issues. It is very easy for people to give health advice, but I honestly believe that biology ain't fair, and some things work for some people and others don't. There are those who don't really even try and still maintain a slim and slender figure, there are those who enjoy moderate exercise and watch what they eat, splurging sometimes, and then there are those like me - the type who has to maintain a strict dietary regiman and exercise a lot, and nothing comes very easily!
Raquel73 Ex moved out 02/2006 Dday 6/2006 Divorced 8/2007 Son 14 Son 11 Daughter 8
I do not have anything more to add to the excellent advice already given you.
I do want you to stop for a minute and recall the inner peace that God has given you. In my daily walk, there are many times I have to stop and say a quick prayer over whatever it is that is troubling me at the time.
Try this...you have said before that you have surrendered your sitch to God as well as your life...right? The next time you feel the need to "over-do" anything...stop and pray and completely surrender that MOMENT to God. It will make a difference and I promise you will find yourself closer to God.
You are needed here...please continue to share with us, as you know by now...we all really care about you!!!
Queenie - how are you sleeping? Read a couple of studies that indicate that reduced sleep (like, due to STRESS - not that we have any idea what THAT is!!) - can contribute to putting on the weight - no one knows why. I sorta wondered if that had to do with the thing you describe - and yes, I know it well, too...times when it seems to fall off without trying hard and others...well...
Yes, overeating can be beating myself up, but for ME, it's been more a protection of myself and stuffing my feelings.
The reason I see overeating as beating yourself up is because it is SELF-DESTRUCTIVE. If you THINK about it, how can you PROTECT yourself by overeating? Doesn't it HURT YOURSELF? You know how I believe in MIND CONTROL. So I encourage you to THINK about it. THINK before you eat. THINK about the RESULT.
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My pattern has been to overeat because I'm in pain over something, protect myself, or sabotage myself.
This sentence makes no sense to me. You overeat because you are IN PAIN. So it soothes the pain? How does it PROTECT you? Sabotage yourself? How is that not SELF-DESTRUCTIVE?
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The real destruction comes when I start beating myself up for eating
We really have a different point of view about this, I know...but I will go ahead and share with you. I don't see it as a problem to beat yourself up over this if it motivates you to change. Change comes from emotional suffering. The suffering I endured when discovering my H was having an affair led to my decision TO CHANGE. I'm THANKFUL for beating myself up over the person that I was...I think that's what you are trying to escape..EMOTIONAL PAIN...It is DESTRUCTIVE for us to ABUSE our bodies. That results in diabetes, heart disease and joint problems...I personally beat myself up when I overeat and that motivates me to stop. I don't want to FEEL BAD about it.
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there was food to numb the pain of life
EXACTLY..as you say...
It's NOT about how your Dad felt about your weight, how your H felt about your weight or any of us. It's about YOU working on being HEALTHY regardless of the reason.
JUST DO IT. If you find a weight program, with healthy eating and exercise, that you like and you stick to it, you will definitely lose weight. That's a scientific fact.
I'm thinking this sounds harsh. I'm sorry...but I'm an ADULT CHILD, Queenie...I've heard it all...all the talk..a zillion times...and I would say..JUST STOP DRINKING...STOP GOING TO THE LIQUOR STORE OR IT WILL KILL YOU..and it did...my D died at age 60..much too young....
So, anyway, I'm sorry the post is so long. But I wanted you to know you are not the only one who has these issues.
Hi Raquel, I'm so touched and honored you would post to me, THANK YOU... It's nice to meet you by the way. I read what you wrote and my heart feels your pain. I'm so glad to have one more person understand the fight it can be. If ever I can support you, please please let me know.
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You are needed here...please continue to share with us, as you know by now...we all really care about you!!!
I would have made it without this place Kick. I'm not sure I am helpful at all, but I certainly am grateful....
Hi Chai, thanks for stopping by. Dang but your world is active these days.
Hi Mimi,
Ok.... you are and I so different. You are strong. I'm not, I really have NEVER been and I haven't found that piece in life. MIND CONTROL....
I went to a food meeting last night. I listened to a woman who is about my size, only covered in different ways. She talked about waking up in the morning and planning to have a good food day, feeling strong, etc and on the way to work, just stopping at a fast food place, getting food, eating on her way to work.
She was full, very full and then about an hour later, she visited the vending machine for more food, and then again one more time before lunch. Because she was sneaking food no one knew that she had already eaten. And so when lunch time came of course she couldn’t not go out and eat lunch, no one had seen her eat.
So she went out and ate a normal lunch with people. An hour or so later, so wasn’t hungry, my goodness she had been eaten all day long, but there she was in front of the vending machine buying more food. And low and behold on her way home she stopped at the same name fast food place and bought more food.
Grossed out yet… Wait…
There was one woman, as skinny as possible, beautiful beyond measure, everything going for her, happy marriage, young child, gorgeous, amazing body. She is into the food again, sneaking food behind peoples backs. Can you imagine putting the extra food into the garbage, but arranging it just so, so that when no one is looking you go and dig it out and eat it up so no one knows you did? I can….
Can you imagine baking cookies, taking some and rearranging the plate so that no one knows you ate more cookies. I can..
I’m not saying that I can’t get healthy, get my food in a safe place, I’m just telling you that knowing what I am doing, trying to stop, etc is NOT IN MY HANDS. IT’S G-DS WILL ON THIS ONE.
I am praying for surrender, I’m praying for what G-d needs from me. I’m not giving up. In fact, my food has actually been pretty good the last few days. I’m not obsessing about it every second of every day, I’m more satisfied than I have been.
Imagine telling an alcoholic to go drink ONE DRINK three times a day, but don’t have anything else, control your drinking… Your mind can do this.
I have to use my drug substance three times a day for the rest of my life, but maintain control over it…
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I don't see it as a problem to beat yourself up over this if it motivates you to change. Change comes from emotional suffering.
I am an ADDICT, I will destroy myself, sabotage myself if I am allowed to beat myself up as a way to get better.
Look at what I do over WH. I'm still thinking I screwed up my M and if I had only done this or that, he wouldn't have left. Like my WH, I have NO CONTROL....
There is a part in the big book that talks about spiritual transformation. This is about seeing myself as a child of G-d and loving myself enough to let G-d have me or have his will in my life or whatever. I don't even know..
I love you dearly, I am fiercely devoted to you for how you saved my life and continue to be a part of it, but babe... I think we disagree on this....healthily.... of course.
JUST STOP DRINKING...STOP GOING TO THE LIQUOR STORE OR IT WILL KILL YOU
I would LOVE to just be able to STOP EATING and never think about food again. NEVER go to a grocery store again, never have to make a decision on what kind of food to eat.
For years, I have delved into the search of something happening to me as a child. I just can't remember nor have I uncovered anything in my many attempts at therapy.
I do know that inappropriate things were done to me with respect to school kids, but whether that is considerate abuse I don't know.
I’m not saying that I can’t get healthy, get my food in a safe place, I’m just telling you that knowing what I am doing, trying to stop, etc is NOT IN MY HANDS. IT’S G-DS WILL ON THIS ONE.
So are you saying that YOU do not have to DO anything? Sit around and WAIT on GOD? That's not the way AA works is it? Don't you have to work a PLAN?
The medical community has a definite TREATMENT PLAN to assist with FOOD ADDICTION, Queenie. What does your physician recommend?
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I am an ADDICT, I will destroy myself, sabotage myself if I am allowed to beat myself up as a way to get better.
You know that I know about ADDICTION TREATMENT, Queenie. What I'm talking about is the NEED to LEARN TO FEEL..that addiction is about NUMBING your FEELINGS...Allowing your yourself to experience your negative feelings IS definitely part of ADDICTIONS' TREATMENT...the need to STOP outrunning the FEELINGS...
I don't think THE ADDICTION is a MIND CONTROL issue..but the LOW SELF-CONCEPT, THINKING that YOU can't change and stuff, IS...
Treatment of FOOD ADDICTION takes a MULTIDISCIPLINARY EFFORT...with consultation with a nutritionist, physician, psychologist, spiritual healer, etc., etc....
So are you saying that YOU do not have to DO anything? Sit around and WAIT on GOD? That's not the way AA works is it? Don't you have to work a PLAN?
Oh NO, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that I still work the program and still put in the effort everyday and NOT GIVE UP, but that if I'm not seeing the results I need to just keep moving along and TRUST G-d.
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You know I that I know about ADDICTION TREATMENT, Queenie. What I'm talking about is the NEED to LEARN TO FEEL..that addiction is about NUMBING your FEELINGS...Allowing your yourself to experience your negative feelings IS definitely part of ADDICTIONS' TREATMENT...the need to STOP outrunning the FEELINGS...
I'll agree, but HOW? How do I learn to feel? I cry, I feel the pain, I feel happiness, what am I not feeling or what can I do to stop the insanity of that.
Yes I did and I even check out her website. It just happened one day for her. Like when it happend for me and all of a suddent food was nothing. I was too involved in the pain to even think about food.
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I don't think THE ADDICTION is a MIND CONTROL issue..but the LOW SELF-CONCEPT, THINKING that YOU can't change and stuff, IS...
I'll go with low self-concept. I don't think that I can't change. What I know is that even when I try for LONG periods of time there are results that happen. And then there are periods of time where my food is absolutely clean, I'm exercising, etc and NOTHING HAPPENS....
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Treatment of FOOD ADDICTION takes a MULTIDISCIPLINARY EFFORT...with consultation with a nutritionist, physician, psychologist, spiritual healer, etc., etc....
I don't have this as a choice. I can do the meetings, I can work on keeping my food clean, but the only oether thing I can afford is meetings.
Meaning that right now, the most important and healthy thing I can do is get off of obvious sugars. It seems that once I get sugar out of my diet, food isn't as insane. I don't think about food all the time. I don't struggle with it all day long. etc.
Sugar seems to be the key in all this.
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OK, have you ever dealt with whatever this might have been. Could your inner child need to be healed so that your outer adult can be healed?
My inner child could use a LOT OF HEALING, I just don't know where to start or even if it really matters at this point in my life.
So, Queenie, if your broken leg needs treatment would you refuse it in the here and now just because someone somewhere else might have a worse fracture?
From what my friend said, lots of food addicts have abuse issues in their past. And, if you don't heal the past, you can't heal the present. Kind of like an infected injury won't heal on the outside until you eliminate the infection.
Sugar seems to be a trigger for alcoholics. They seem, from what I've heard, to be more successful at giving up alcohol when they give up sugar....sugar is a primary ingredient in alcohol.
From what my friend said, lots of food addicts have abuse issues in their past.
The abuse in my past isn't sexual, it's emotional.
I am trying to deal with it, first in accepting that it happened, not just in my childhood but my M and trying to understand how it plays out in me TODAY.
Because it's there, I just dont' know how it's there.
Sugar seems to be a trigger for alcoholics. They seem, from what I've heard, to be more successful at giving up alcohol when they give up sugar....sugar is a primary ingredient in alcohol.
No, not getting off, but certainly getting crazy. It puts me in a fog for sure.
[quote] Can't you go to the local mental health center for counseling? Or a teaching hospital? A place that's sliding scale? The local mental health center that would take me, the rest are filled up is an hour away and I don't have that kind of gas money. I don't qualify for sliding scale, because it's reported by the state of washington that I receive child and spousal support. They don't care if you actually get it, just that it's stupposed to be there.
Now, I hadn't thought of a teaching hospital so I am going to look into that idea.
Ok, bad wording. I would like a LOT LESS conflict WITHIN myself.
I got the fight in me.. I'm tired of the conflict.
Better? Ok,for instance.
Yesterday I ate the same exact food that I have had today. Nothing more nothing less. Yesterday my food was easy and I stayed the same. Today, my food has come harder, I'm more fixated on it and I gained two lbs.
Yesterday I ate the same exact food that I have had today. Nothing more nothing less. Yesterday my food was easy and I stayed the same. Today, my food has come harder, I'm more fixated on it and I gained two lbs.
You know what, Queenie?
I'm going to give it to you straight. I'm owning this as MY OPINION.
You know I'm fond of you, girl. So I'm not trying to kick you. I'm trying to help you.
That ALL being said..Hon, you sound like a Wayward...in your addiction...
You are trying to do this YOUR WAY and explaining this to US like it makes sense. That's why I keep getting confused. It sounds like FOG BABBLE. What does "my food was EASY" mean? Maybe you need to be more explanatory. Do you mean it was EASY not eating too much..EASY going down?..EASY to choose????
And then your food "COMES HARDER" and you GAIN TWO POUNDS? Do you think you MAGICALLY gained two pounds and does "HARD" mean you ATE more?
To me, I can't understand what you are saying, Queenie. Are you using some sort of OA language that I am not familiar with or is this your way of explaining your eating?
I think you need to be on a WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAM!! What is keeping you from doing that? That is how you will lose weight, Queenie. Pick out a PROGRAM and then try to stick to it.
There is NO GOOD REASON how come you can't be on a WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAM in conjunction with OA.
You know Mimi, you and I have been through way too much and for too long to pull any punches and hold back when we are frustrated about stuff. I’m truly not trying to be difficult.
Into my ADDICTION, I’m owning that I am and sounding like a wayward. I certainly won’t deny it because then I would know it’s true. But I assure you, I’m trying… I’m in a hole, I’m trying to dig out. I’m going to meetings, I’m working with a sponsor, I’m being honest with my food to her, I’m praying, I’m working the steps. I don’t know what else I can do.
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my food was EASY
Maybe it’s an OA terminology or just mine. I know that when I am in those meetings, saying it’s easy is understood, so I might have to find a way to explain it better to you.
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You are trying to do this YOUR WAY and explaining this to US like it makes sense. That's why I keep getting confused. It sounds like FOG BABBLE. What does "my food was EASY" mean? Maybe you need to be more explanatory. Do you mean it was EASY not eating too much..EASY going down?..EASY to choose????
Yes, I mean the desire to not overeat isn’t a thought, it isn’t a fight. I pull out what I plan to eat and I’m satisfied. No, it’s not about going down at all.
Sometimes the choices are easier, but when I’m being “good” with my food, I am not making decisions about what I am eating as I’m hungry. I have my food planned out. I have food that is satisfying to me.
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And then your food "COMES HARDER" and you GAIN TWO POUNDS? Do you think you MAGICALLY gained two pounds and does "HARD" mean you ATE more?
No, it’s not necessarily that I eat more. I’m not as satisfied with the choices of my food. I crave sugar, I obsess more about eating… It consumes me, about sneaking it, the internal fight takes over. The insane talking between the healthy part and the part that just wants to stuff. Is that better?
Mimi, let’s talk this through….weight loss program to me sounds like DENIAL. When I am into my addiction, which I absolutely agree I am into, not necessarily by just eating, but certainly by my thoughts and actions, I eat more out of control.
I have a food plan that I want to keep to, what will help me lose weight, but it doesn’t matter because I can’t seem to get the sugar out of my diet which for just ME seems to be some type of trigger or catalyst.
Does this help at all. Am I being more confusing?
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I think that you need a WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAM that has been scientifically(?) developed by nutritionists/physicians who are weight loss PROFESSIONALS..you know like MBers' designed by Dr. HARLEY.. not a WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAM designed by YOU...
Such as WWers, Atkins, Nutrisy..you know what I mean?
These programs allow some SUGAR..so that you won't feel deprived...you need VARIETY in your diet...
The GOAL is to eatto learn to eat NORMALLY..and HEALTHILY...
The weight-loss program I speak of isn't designed by ME. It's designed by my boss who is a natural dr. It's a no yeast/no candida diet and I absolutely love the plan.
I could do atkins easily. Weight watchers, I'm a total failure on. Total.
I don't know, maybe you are right. I'll give it some thought and do some checking around.
Mimi, my relation to food isn't "normal" it's my DRUG OF CHOICE. It's what I did before I did drugs and drinking and it's what I went back to when I got sober.
Mimi, my relation to food isn't "normal" it's my DRUG OF CHOICE. It's what I did before I did drugs and drinking and it's what I went back to when I got sober.
So you are not SOBER. It is an ADDICTION that has been longstanding. That's why I think you are in need of EXPERT CARE so you can finally BEAT your ADDICTIONS..forever..
Queenie: I agree that sugar is a problem when trying to lose weight. I, in fact, was the leader for about 2 years of a church-based weight loss program, I became the leader when I lost weight and faithfully followed the program, the volunteer leader was moving, and for the program to continue someone had to step up the plate. I wasn't an expert or trained in the subject, but I did lead a group of women through a very successful program.
The program was called PRISM and was conducted in churches throughout the country. The benefit of this program was that it included a curriculum with daily readings which helped member examine why they do what they do in regards to food and eating. It was a self-improvement/weight loss program all in one.
As for the food portion, members needed to write down everything they ate during the day AND count calories. Yep -- that's the key -- counting calories. For instance, Cherrios are acceptable for breakfast. But have you ever measured out one cup of cherrios and 1/2 cup of milk and add up the calories? I never had before. Ends up, that I had been eating at least twice that over the years without understanding what a serving size was (check the side of the box) and how many calories were in a serving.
Sugar is bad, bad, bad. Natural sugars in fruit are good, good, good. Even honey is good. But, again, count calories.
Most problems I noticed over the years were people who thought it was OK to just eat things like frozen dinners or processed stuff. There are tons of calories in these types of meals. Best to stick to old fashion cooking -- protein, rice, fruits, veggies, etc. And bread is bad. Fast food can be OK -- like an In 'n Out burger without the bun -- "protein style."
Also important was drinking water instead of sodas.
If you're interested, search for PRISM on-line and see if there is a program in your area. If not, the curriculum could (at least it could a few years ago -- ) be purchased on line.
So avoid sugars, white flour, processed foods. Each fruits, veggies, rice, proteins. Count calories by checking serving size on box and measuring or weighing food. When in doubt, look up calories on line or buy a calorie counting book. Limit calories to around 1200 daily. And try to drink at least 8 glasses of water a day. And don't weigh yourself everyday. Weigh on day one then again after week 6. You'll be surprised at the results.
Just my 2 cents from someone who's been there. I really liked this program because it was more than just food. It was self-improvement too.
At 3:30 am I was abruptly woken up with YS handing me his phone. DD was hysterical asking me to come get her. Of course, I did and on the way I prayed to G-d asking him to remove my fear and direct my attention to being the loving, healthy mom I can be. Of course, I screamed into my head for a few moments that I needed H to help me, but fortunately my self-pity didn’t last long. I to G-d to make sure that it wasn’t serious and he hadn’t hurt her.
I arrived, picked her up and he is there. He’s standing off to the side, she is sitting across from him, gets up and walks over to the car. Situation seemed calm for all intent purposes. He waved to me as she got in the car and I waved back.
As she sat down she was clearly hysterical, apologized and said she didn’t want to call. I told her not to apologize, I’m her mom and that’s what moms get to do. I didn’t know what the hell was going on so I would wait and keep praying while listening to my music. She’s MY DD so I knew the story was coming soon. What I immediately noticed is she was drunk. And I KNEW intuitively how to handle this. I stayed quiet and let her spout her story, her poison, her disease.
She hit him, she was sorry he pushed her to far. He called her stupid, he kept pushing her and finally she exploded and hit him and then when she realized she was out of control she did what she knew to be the best thing today, get out of the situation and call me. Not to lecture, not to fix, but just to be there and love her because that’s what mom’s do. But I KNEW my daughter had become the alcoholic she had always been as a little girl. And I wasn’t sad, full of self-pity, I just was with my child knowing I was there for her and I always would be.
I listened to her spout her story and I realized she is telling my story with her father, from the frustration, the sadness, the sheer out of control anger - I didn‘t hit, I threw things at walls and destroyed items instead, and the total out of control feelings, the I‘m not going to get drunk, I‘m going to get healthy and bam here I am getting drunk because my BF wanted to party. But it was the chaos and the insanity of doing the same thing over and over again that hit home. And I just let it be about her and got her drunk butt home and in bed and I fell asleep after talking to G-d.
I woke up, wishing I could get her to go to a meeting, but SHE’S NOT DONE…
This thread has started to stop being about WH and more about my journey because contrary to beliefs I am healing and I am LEARNING to love myself. I just had a LOT FARTHER to go.
Some will understand this, most won’t, we will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we had gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. I have the promise in my life TODAY….
Before I got to the AA meeting this morning, I asked for this one person to be at the meeting, not sure why, just did. I got to the meeting, she was there and not only that, but she was chairing. I know that she has recently gone through drug issues with her child, but I didn’t know she had been in a eating disorder treatment program.
And in that moment as I read in the big book the very promise that comes sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, it had come in this very situation. Mark, you have reminded me over and over again how G-d uses us, how he cares about the bigger picture, the glory for himself. What if, ALL THIS, my life with my H, the insanity, the disease of our addictions, the pain, the EVERYTHING was for this single moment when I realized that my child is an alcoholic and I can’t FIX her, I can’t CONTROL her, but I sure as heck can help her by continuing to work my program and be the example that I wasn’t as she was growing up.
I get to give a living amend to my daughter by continually becoming a deeper student of AA and the 12 step program and working this in ALL my affairs. Like my food.
I’m not prepared to discuss the food anymore simply because Mimi you are right, I’m into my addiction and I’m foggy. But I’m not quitting and I’m surrendering to G-d to guide me in his path for me. This woman and I talked about how she thought she knew nutrition like I think I know nutrition and it struck me what she said and I’m contacting my dr and setting up an appt for help with nutrition,but that will have to come after I get some money from the state. I'm not avoiding, I'm being careful with my money.
My daughter won’t step away from this insane unhealthy relationship because she learned that from me. I should have walked away or at the very least sought AA years ago, but I thought I could control it and with all the sickness, I still love the schlep,and simply didn't grasp what was going on. I will always have the hope that things could have been different, but they are what they are.
I’m not acting today, but I am talking to my A this week about going after WH for the money that is owed me. I don’t know about the divorce, but I realize that I don’t have to be this stupid, pathetic victim and let him continue to control me by controlling the money.
It’s almost 12 hours since I was woken up to retrieve my first born. She has her path, she is clearly not done. She’s gone now, but before she left I told her that I loved her, that what she was doing was playing a dangerous game between her and BF and that I recognize she isn’t done. No lectures, no judgements, just love and prayers and when she really wanted support, I was there to help her.
Today I'm just full of gifts of clarity from G-d. For all of you who have told me OVER and OVER and OVER again that WH and what he is doing isn't ABOUT ME.... I finally caught a HUGE glimpse of what you mean and I have experience to build on it.
What a frickin CONTROLLING person I was, can still be, but am LEARNING not to be. I was explaining something to my sponsor about my sister that was bothering me and as we walked through it, she jumped down my throat about how it wasn't ABOUT ME.....
And it just clicked....
Maybe I had unrealistic notions of what marriage and commitment were and no matter what you figure it out. Maybe I live in a time that doesn't share that value and commitment. Who knows. But I got an experience to draw on, and put it on top with TRULY understanding how I have no power over people, places and things and that I can feel the pain, be sad for the situation, but that I am NOT G-d and I can't control my sister, my DD and certainly not my H or WH.
All I can do is seek G-d, and walk the path that he is carving out for me as a result of what's been happening around me.
:crosseyedcrazy: boy it's been a bright day of vision today.
This woman and I talked about how she thought she knew nutrition like I think I know nutrition and it struck me what she said and I’m contacting my dr and setting up an appt for help with nutrition,but that will have to come after I get some money from the state. I'm not avoiding, I'm being careful with my money.
WONDERFUL!!
Also, check out ACE'S thread which proves that there was a time when I was NOT STRONG!!
I feel your pain and all of the other confusing emotions you are going through over DD. The advantage that you have over me is that you understand addictions because you have been there. I don't understand them in that way and don't know if I will ever be able to because I haven't experienced it.
Your family needs you to be strong now. Be there for them. My DD may be inserious trouble, and I don't know if I can be there anymore.
Maybe I had unrealistic notions of what marriage and commitment were and no matter what you figure it out.
I think that's a common theme among women our age. At least for me, I was taught that when I grew up I would find a husband who would work and provide for me, we'd have 2.3 kids and live happily, romantically ever after. In fact, I went to college looking for my Mrs. degree.
Hey Luna, I sure miss you, I'll have to go check out your thread and catch up with you. Yes, you, I am so many others are looking to heal and become healthy.
PM, what a fool or misfit in this time of throw away everything. Oh well, lessons are sometimes just hard learned.
Hope you are doing better today. I had a message from Smartie about the trip. I hope to get a chance to call her this week. Would love to visit the PNW with you guys, but my future is pretty uncertain right now.
I'll call you because I have something to send to you and I will need your address....
Mark, you have reminded me over and over again how G-d uses us, how he cares about the bigger picture, the glory for himself...
...I get to give a living amend to my daughter by continually becoming a deeper student of AA and the 12 step program and working this in ALL my affairs.
I hope we can get together sometime soon. I'm headed down to Alderwood tomorrow to get an upgrade for Titania and it reminded me of the first time we met there-Christmas '07.
You will be in my prayers. BTW, the phone number I used was the one that ended in 9292. Is that still your #? It has your message on it....
Chai-if you do come to visit, we'd love to show you the PNW. I have an extra room if you need one.
For those of you not familiar with ChaiLover's thread, WH filed for D, please check out the last several posts. She is facing the eminent crisis of providing care for her addict-daughter's newborn. This is a new crisis in Chai's live and she could really use some help. As the mother of a grown woman, she has nothing, REPEAT - NOTHING for this baby...no bed, clothes, food, bottles. There is talk about a cyber-shower for our friend.
Maybe I had unrealistic notions of what marriage and commitment were and no matter what you figure it out.
Wow, Queenie, did this ever hit home with me!
Your insight is marvelous.
I am SO PROUD of you. This is HUGE - a moment of clarity that has the power to free you from alot of ties to the past that were woven from "faulty thread", if you take my meaning. It means you get to re-invent your ideas about M and about commitment. It means you get to re-invent you as someone in exploration of what a realistic view of these things is (for you) and to re-balance your life in light of the insights you develop.
I was just catching up on your thread. I wish I could give you an IRL hug, but this will have to do...
Your wisdom is showing in your post about your daughter. It must hurt the core of your heart, though, to see where she is and know that she isn't done.
I'm excited for you right now, even in the midst of this with your daughter. You are making choices now to empower yourself and to care for yourself. By being the best "you" you can be, you will be the best mom you can be, too.
You cannot go back and undo her childhood, but you can still impact her life today and in the future by being the woman God intends you to be.
I think as you take some ACTIONS (attorney, meetings, doctor), your fog will clear further, and you will see God has great plans for you. Don't fight his plans, Queenie.
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jer 29:11
I think as you take some ACTIONS (attorney, meetings, doctor), your fog will clear further, and you will see God has great plans for you. Don't fight his plans, Queenie.
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jer 29:11
Quote:I think as you take some ACTIONS (attorney, meetings, doctor), your fog will clear further, and you will see God has great plans for you. Don't fight his plans, Queenie.
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jer 29:11
AMEN!!
I'll second that!!
Queenie, you have become the pillar of strength which you never imagined you could be! A Goddess beyond compare!
I think as you take some ACTIONS (attorney, meetings, doctor), your fog will clear further, and you will see God has great plans for you. Don't fight his plans, Queenie.
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jer 29:11
Well hi there, Bugs, I haven't seen you you for awhile.. Thanks for stopping by, I sure miss you president. Thank you all, Miriam, SMB and Mimi for your kind words and support.
I admit, I am feeling stronger, I am moving forward and taking action. Speaking of action.... I got a call from my A today, he has a court appearance in front of the judge on Friday to find out what to do to get a final decree within the month. How's that for action. How's that for my timing.
SMB, I'm not fighting G-d, but geez a month and I could be divorced. I broke down crying when he told me, asked a few clarifying questions and panicked. Panicked that I wasn't ready, it's too soon, etc.
I let people in on what's going on IRL, wanted to post here, but I was clearly too emotional and in a clear panic of not wanting my M to end. I went and met my food sponsor and talked through it, I went to a meeting and talked through it, I drove with a friend and cried through it. I processed what I was feeling, what was happening and what is G-ds will in all this. Because that's really all I care about.
I don't want a D, but come on, whose kidding who. My M has been in trouble for a long time. I was so unhappy myself. WH isn't showing one sign of being any type of human being with forget me, but HIS CHILDREN. He's off living his fantasy of more than me, lacrosse and soccer. Like Myfamily suggests, who the heck and I to argue that he isn't happy or he doesn't know what's best for him. I'm not G-d. It's his life, it was never my life.
Why should I wait around for something that isn't going to happen, and worst yet, giving WH control of how the marriage ends instead of me possibly getting G-ds will by this action and just totally be at peace with the end result and completely surrendering. Like scripture says, he has plans for me.
You are so right everyone, I am STRONGER, not the same sick destroyed woman that came here. I have learned so much about myself, that yes I wasn't the best wife I could have been, but you know what, he wasn't the best husband either. That I'm a little naive in marriage and just believed. That when I wanted to just die and not feel pain, I sought out G-d, nurtured my relationship with him and fought for survival to just get up in the morning and breathe at times.
This isn't my timing, this isn't in stone, but I'll let the A see the judge, I'll meet with him and see what he says and you can bet I'll be close to G-d seeking his will for me.
Queenie, humans have the privilege of making choices. Their choices affect others. And, sometimes, they hurt others - and God - when they make choices.
Remember that line from 'The Sound of Music'? When God closes a door, he opens a window somewhere.
Queenie, I didn't want to say anything on Browneye's thread because of her current state of mind, but I have to tell you. You were AWESOME in your posts to her. I hope that she "hears" your encouragement and reaches out to God. She's at her bottom. We've both been there and it ain't pretty. Good job Queenie.
Nothing and everything. I will have some more security. I will feel some relief that I did the very best I could. I will know that through all of this, he had a home to come too and it was HIS CHOOSING, not MINE to destroy a family and marriage.
I will be free to let the window open and G-ds light in for the next phase of my life.
NO, I don't want him as he is now. In fact, I was crying to a friend last night, I can't remember what he looks like, I can't remember what he sounds like.
I didn't choose this, I was willing to create a new marriage and work through the pain and commitment of recovery.
As it was drowned into me, I can't CONTROL him.
You know, having BROWNEYES on here, is helping me. I understand her pain, I remember that pain that total and complete inability to function in life and I see myself today.
Yes I will be OK. Not what I want.... but I will be OK...
Queenie, I didn't want to say anything on Browneye's thread because of her current state of mind, but I have to tell you. You were AWESOME in your posts to her. I hope that she "hears" your encouragement and reaches out to God. She's at her bottom. We've both been there and it ain't pretty. Good job Queenie.
Thank you so very much PM. I really understand her. I know that absolute desperation and what I KNOW is that she CAN survive.
What a gift from G-d to let me be able to help someone that I completely understand, and KNOW deep INTO MY SOUL... can get through this, because I AM.... I truly am....
Queenie, I started posting to you because I understood your pain. Funny how that happens.
My x initially filed for the divorce and I contested it so nicely that he had his petition dismissed. When I could no longer stand or cope with the insanity in my life, I turned around and filed for a divorce. When it was granted, my life became more sane.
Is it possible that moving to a place of more sanity, surety, and security might help you with your addiction issues?
...I went and met my food sponsor and talked through it, I went to a meeting and talked through it, I drove with a friend and cried through it. I processed what I was feeling...
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...I'll let the A see the judge, I'll meet with him and see what he says...
Isn't it amazing how G-d has placed BROWNEYES onto my life, so walk through this with her, because I understand her PAIN.
In case I haven't thanked you, Cinderella, thank you for being in my life and caring enough to help me get through this. I love you....
Listen up, you babe-alicious goddess, THAT is why our Father put us here. We are all his beloved children. We chose us all to be on his team - we just have to decide when to dress out.
You are beautiful. He made you beautiful. And, you are a good, kind, loving woman.
My A's response to me on Friday afternoon..I met with the judge this afternoon. It is my understanding that your husband is willing to get this case over with, and is willing to meet with you and I to try to knock out a final resolution before trial. The judge set the trial date for March 6th, but expects us to try to get it settle before that date. He is WILLING to meet with ME? Is his CRAZY? I'm in Plan B, I'm NOT meeting with HIM... Your husband wants the statements for trusts for you and the two younger children. He is entitled to this information. I got the impression he spoke with someone in your family, and maybe thinks he is entitled to a share. I am certain that any trust funds would be your separate property, but he is entitled to copies of the statements.
The existence of these funds may effect any future claim for spousal maintenance and post-secondary support. Obviously, if a court sees that you have significant funds at your disposal, the court may take that into consideration when making a determination on the above issues.
So I checked in with the executor of my estate and this was his reponse... Your trust provides that you get current income from the trust on a quarterly basis but that is not a large sum of money since your trust principal is nominal. You got one principal payment one year after U's death and will get another one on the fifth anniversary after his death. Afterwards, principal payments will be made on five year periods until exhausted. Neither WH nor his attorney contacted me.
:twobyfour: why should I even fantasize that WH is any DIFFERENT than anyone elses and would have a heart or care that his children need to be taken care of. He wants to use a trust that is for his children, so that he can take care of OW. :twobyfour:
You ARE strong! Just look at your post. Instead of curling up in a ball and throwing up your hands in defeat, you are standing up like the Goddess you are! I'm glad to see the defiant, angry Goddess!!
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Obviously, if a court sees that you have significant funds at your disposal, the court may take that into consideration when making a determination on the above issues.
If I'm reading correctly, there is NO a significant amount of funds here, so it is a non-issue when it comes to WH's support, right?
I would hate to think that any WS would try to use their kids trusts to support their A-partner, but I am sure that there are some who would do it. Is your WH one of them? I don't know. Perhaps it is that he is wanting to use those funds as a way to get out of paying a proper amount of support??
Either way, you have the Strength and the Power to fight this!
As far as sitting down for a mediation, you need to consider that this might be something you have to do. Now, that being said, it does NOT necessarily mean that you have to sit down across the table from him face to face. Be sure you speak with your attorney about this so that he/she understands that you are not going to do that. You can have the attorneys draw up the necessary paperwork to the point of a 'needed' negotiation.
Then, the negotiation can be both of you in the same building,,,just not in the same room. The attorneys are the only ones that really need to speak to each other. Make them do their jobs. This is how it played out with Drac. We went to court and the attorneys ended up negotiating in the hallway outside the courtroom. I did 'see' Drac from a distance, but did not have to speak to him and neither of us even walked into the courtroom.
I think it is time to change your thread title again, only it should read "Queenie DOES love herself".....
Honey, you have arrived, I for one am so very very proud of you. In fact, it is time you start charging for your lessons you have learned......
Bugs is right....Instead of curling up in a ball you ARE standing up....and just think where something like this would have put you just a few short months ago?????
The change, I have had the priveledge of watching, in you is most astonishing.....GOSH I just love it....
And yes, this appauling action of the WH is rehensible, repulsive and most definately not the man you fell in love with.....you do deserve so much better.....you will get your just rewards one day.....
I don't have much advice, but I can say that even if the FORCED you to do mediation face to face with WH, which I doubt they will BUT, you would totally rock that courthouse..... and I would LOVE to see the looks on WH's and crack ho's face if they did have to see what they are messing with....
much love out to ya honey.....not2fun
ps....I kinda rambled....must be the side-effects of the meds...
If you go to mediation, see if you can do the different rooms things and let the attorney handle the 'shuttle diplomacy'. If, on the other hand, you do end up in the same room, address your comments to the attorney and remember that the other body in the room is not really the man with whom you fell in love. It's some stranger in his body.
My A's response to me on Friday afternoon..I met with the judge this afternoon. It is my understanding that your husband is willing to get this case over with, and is willing to meet with you and I to try to knock out a final resolution before trial. The judge set the trial date for March 6th, but expects us to try to get it settle before that date. He is WILLING to meet with ME? Is his CRAZY? I'm in Plan B, I'm NOT meeting with HIM... Your husband wants the statements for trusts for you and the two younger children. He is entitled to this information. I got the impression he spoke with someone in your family, and maybe thinks he is entitled to a share. I am certain that any trust funds would be your separate property, but he is entitled to copies of the statements.
The existence of these funds may effect any future claim for spousal maintenance and post-secondary support. Obviously, if a court sees that you have significant funds at your disposal, the court may take that into consideration when making a determination on the above issues.
So I checked in with the executor of my estate and this was his reponse... Your trust provides that you get current income from the trust on a quarterly basis but that is not a large sum of money since your trust principal is nominal. You got one principal payment one year after U's death and will get another one on the fifth anniversary after his death. Afterwards, principal payments will be made on five year periods until exhausted. Neither WH nor his attorney contacted me.
:twobyfour: why should I even fantasize that WH is any DIFFERENT than anyone elses and would have a heart or care that his children need to be taken care of. He wants to use a trust that is for his children, so that he can take care of OW. :twobyfour:
Suggestions?
Oh Queenie honey, I would fight this tooth and nail! It is my understanding (and don't quote me on this) but a trust account like this should not affect his OBLIGATION to pay child support. Now, it might affect the spousal support in some way, because the whole purpose of spousal support (as opposed to alimony) is to allow you to remain living in the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed (supposedly) while you search for or train for employment to support yourself.
I don't understand though, has a divorce been filed? I was under the impression that you only filed a LSA. Does that convert into a divorce after so much time or something? A trial date?
Does WH have his own attorney? Y'all aren't sharing the same attorney are you? That would be a disaster! He can't ethically look out for your best interest if he's supposed to look out for WH's best interest too. That usually only works out when everything is AGREED and both parties just want out... no assets, no kids, nothing. Please say it ain't so.
If meeting face-to-face with WH is too hard, do what others have suggested, ask for different rooms and have the attorneys go back and forth. I'm hoping you both have your own attorney and not just one guy trying to settle this for both of you.
I have GREAT faith that you will sail through this with flying colors. You've come so far "for such a time as this." Rise up! Be strong in the Lord! You are His beloved!
Let me check recipes.com to see if they have any recipes for fried b@stard. I do know Lynne Rossetto Kasper talked about deep and pan frying on The Splendid Table on NPR last weekend. If you can find the call-in portion of the show on the podcast, you might get some ideas for things to do to help the batter coating to stick better.
According to Lynne, you want the meat dryish and warmish when you bread it and you want the breading to have a few minutes to adhere before you put it in the grease/oil at a little below 350. You know, if you don't fry it right, it doesn't turn out as well.
Well, this has been quite and interesting week. I SUDDENLY got the most FUN flu on Monday night and the good news is I LOST 8 lbs. Almost better than the infidelity diet.
Seeing that I have spent most of my week in bed, I've gone through so many thoughts. This diseased mind of mine.
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I would hate to think that any WS would try to use their kids trusts to support their A-partner, but I am sure that there are some who would do it. Is your WH one of them? I don't know. Perhaps it is that he is wanting to use those funds as a way to get out of paying a proper amount of support??
I think the latter is true. He is looking out to make life easier on himself and his sick relationship. I can only hope it's feeling the crunch financially like I DO every month when I tell my children we don't have enough to get that or this.
The good news, I still am that this scumbag WH would go after not only MY MONEY, but get out of being a PARENT. He is despicable, and I'm NOT GOING TO MAKE IT EASY He REALLY doesn't want to go down this road with me. I'm not that stupid, fat, ugly, thrown away wife he walked out on anymore. I am a GODDESS, who has LEARNED to LOVE herself, take CARE of herself, PROTECT HER CHILDREN at all costs and is WILLING to FIGHT this MONSTER until the bitter end. I won't roll over easy. What would I be afraid of? LOSING HIM? I ALREADY HAVE AND HAVE SURVIVED.
I HAVE SURVIVED THE AFFAIR......
No Bugs, there is NO significant amount of funds, nor do I just get to ACCESS the money like he thinks. It's absolutely left up to the SOLE discretion of the trustee of the estate and he isn't just handing out money to me.
From what I can gather, WH doesn't have an A and is trying to push me into things I am NOT WILLING to do. But I'm not the OLD QUEENIE... In fact he doesn't even KNOW QUEENIE and that SHE LIVES and SURVIVES. She FIGHTS WARS, she FIGHTS MONSTER WH's, and she FIGHTS for HER CHILDREN....
Bugs is right....Instead of curling up in a ball you ARE standing up....and just think where something like this would have put you just a few short months ago?????
The change, I have had the priveledge of watching, in you is most astonishing.....GOSH I just love it....
I am a WARRIOR GODDESS. I had a MOMENT, but it was gone because I asked G-d for help and gave it to him because he knows my motives, he knows the truths of the situations, he has the plan for me and I TRUST HIM to take care of me.
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but a trust account like this should not affect his OBLIGATION to pay child support. Now, it might affect the spousal support in some way, because the whole purpose of spousal support (as opposed to alimony) is to allow you to remain living in the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed (supposedly) while you search for or train for employment to support yourself.
Unfortunately PM, it's the spousal support that I NEED to be able to remain in my apt. I can't survive without the spousal support and that's what DOES have me concerned. I could always offer him the car and the payments along with it, or possible pull our the surprise in my hat that NO ONE knows about. He doesn't realize what and who he is dealing with. I don't want to live high on the horse, I want to just be able to remain in the apt that I MOVED into after HIS CHOICES forced me to move from our HOUSE, the house that my children only knew. I'm asking for spousal support until my son graduates.
I also think that at the time I was awarded child support WH was given everyother weekend. Since YS and NOT ONCE been to his place I should get more money for having him 24/7.
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Does WH have his own attorney? Y'all aren't sharing the same attorney are you? That would be a disaster! He can't ethically look out for your best interest if he's supposed to look out for WH's best interest too. That usually only works out when everything is AGREED and both parties just want out... no assets, no kids, nothing. Please say it ain't so.
No, I don't believe WH has his own A, but I can assure you it won't be MINE. I can also assure you, WE haven't agreed on anything. If that flippin moron thinks he destroyed me so bad that I am willing to just fade away without me seeking what is RIGHTLYFULLY MINE, he is sadly in not just a drug induced state, but is seriously in need of mental health for delusions....
Thank you all who support and believe in ME.. This is your success as much as mine. You stuck with me, even when you wanted to knock me over. I can honestly say I was STILL willing to work on this M and would have DONE ANYTHING to get him HOME. But THIS... This is the END. He PUSHED to FAR. I'm DONE.
He wants a crack ho with hepatitis C, whose smokes, is a grandmother, looks like she is 65 and probably going to not be around very long because she has a deadly illness, then good luck you IDIOT.
Please know, I still love my H deeply. Plan B was a success because there was and is still the love to have made my M work. But he doesn't want it and it's time to set me FREE.
Sorry for the rambling.... I'm worked up as you can tell.
My A's response to me on Friday afternoon..I met with the judge this afternoon. It is my understanding that your husband is willing to get this case over with, and is willing to meet with you and I to try to knock out a final resolution before trial. The judge set the trial date for March 6th, but expects us to try to get it settle before that date.
So a divorce was actually filed, not just a LSA?
Good for you recognizing the danger in sharing an attorney!
I'm so proud of you Queenie... your WH has no idea who you've become. Boy, is he in for a surprise!
Hi Mimi, thank you... I tried Mimi to hold out. I certainly don't disagree with the principles of MB or the plans. I certainly am a success of them. I didn't want this divorce and I certainly couldn't imagining it happening this soon, but it seems that it's taken on a life of its own and being the control freak that I was... Have to LET IT GO... I have turned it over to G-d.
I absolutely still agree WH is no different than anyone else's. And maybe remarriage is down the line for us. No one really knows what G-d has planned. But it's clear to me that WH isn't interested in being a man and taking care of his children for BASIC NEEDS. Well I learned that if he won't, I WILL and I AM.
Yes, PM it's become a divorce and not LSA. He isn't abiding to the terms of the LSA and for some reason, G-d perhaps, the A feels that we need to get final resolution to this which is a divorce.
Personally I wasn't ready for it, but you KNOW. I have walked through this whole ordeal by letting G-d lead me. I feel like it's time. I feel that I gave it my all, as Mark suggested. I left nothing undone and in the end, there was NOTHING more for me to do, but love him enough to set him free and build my own life of happiness and joy. And I deserve that. I deserve to love someone and be loved back.
PM, thank you so much for you kind words. I have GROWN and BLOSSOMED, beyond anything I can imagine. G-d had FAITH in ME. And I TRUSTED him to lead me to the land of milk and honey. I'm not there yet, but I KNOW who is LEADING me...
You are so RIGHT. WH has NO COMPREHENSION of who I have BECOME. And who KNOWS if he will even REALIZE it. But you know what, IT DOESN'T MATTER.... I KNOW who I have become and all that truly matters is I am PROUD and HONORED to be HER....
Cinderella, you are so kind and gracious. I'm so completely grateful and humbled by this. Thank you... One day, maybe my story will be told because it's a story of true survival of handling that absolutely worst or the worst in human nature and learning to give it to G-d and trust him enough to get me through it.
I am a GODDESS, who has LEARNED to LOVE herself, take CARE of herself, PROTECT HER CHILDREN at all costs and is WILLING to FIGHT this MONSTER until the bitter end. I won't roll over easy. What would I be afraid of? LOSING HIM? I ALREADY HAVE AND HAVE SURVIVED.
I HAVE SURVIVED THE AFFAIR......
Queenie, I am in tears reading this. I am so proud of you.
I am so proud to be your friend-your MB friend, your IRL friend, and fellow flood survivor. We never know what God has planned, but we do know that He knows, and sometimes, that's enough.
Thank you so very much SMB, Cinderella, and Luna. You have to understand how very much this new me is first because of G-d and then of MB and your patience with me through it all.
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Forget surviving....Queenie gets mad!!!!!
Hi TMTS, I MISS you so VERY much. Do you know that when Queenie gets mad she seeks G-d for guidance and the next indicated step, like she does when she drives to the store tonight and realizes WH's car is in the parking lot.
She doesn't hide, but she doesn't seek, she just asks G-d and connects with someone to walk through with her, to keep her focused and remember she is a child of G-d and she is moving on. It took me under an hour...UNDER AN HOUR to have forgotten the whole affair and moved on to the next indicated step. UNDER AN HOUR..... And the Queenie comes home, make buffalo wings, and head's out to her 2nd AA meeting for the day.
And before that little blip in her day, she woke up, went to an AA meeting, took her sponsor out because sponsor had surgery yesterday, went shopping with her sponsor, and then went to a pampered chef party where SHE DIDN'T BUY ANYTHING.
Oh yes, Queenie is a NEW WOMAN. A WOMAN OF G-D, who doesn't need "things" to her fix.
When in pain she has learned to come home and read Torah, and she came upon Psalm 61 1 Hear my cry, O God; listen to my prayer. 2 From the ends of the earth I call to you, I call as my heart grows faint; lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
3 For you have been my refuge, a strong tower against the foe.
4 I long to dwell in your tent forever and take refuge in the shelter of your wings.
or Psalm 59 1 Deliver me from my enemies, O God; protect me from those who rise up against me. 2 Deliver me from evildoers and save me from bloodthirsty men.
3 See how they lie in wait for me! Fierce men conspire against me for no offense or sin of mine, O LORD.
4 I have done no wrong, yet they are ready to attack me. Arise to help me; look on my plight!
5 O LORD God Almighty, the God of Israel, rouse yourself to punish all the nations; show no mercy to wicked traitors. Selah
6 They return at evening, snarling like dogs, and prowl about the city.
7 See what they spew from their mouths— they spew out swords from their lips, and they say, "Who can hear us?"
8 But you, O LORD, laugh at them; you scoff at all those nations.
9 O my Strength, I watch for you; you, O God, are my fortress, 10 my loving God. God will go before me and will let me gloat over those who slander me.
11 But do not kill them, O Lord our shield, [b] or my people will forget. In your might make them wander about, and bring them down.
12 For the sins of their mouths, for the words of their lips, let them be caught in their pride. For the curses and lies they utter,
13 consume them in wrath, consume them till they are no more. Then it will be known to the ends of the earth that God rules over Jacob.
Oh yes, wouldn't it have been nice to face WH as the new me, but you know what, the new ME didn't want to meet him, she is in Plan B and in Plan B she shall stay. In Plan B, she continues to become stronger and stronger, surrenduring more to G-d each and every day and TRUSTING he has her BACK and WILL TAKE CARE of her.
JT, you have always been my strength of hope to keep walking in the Lord, even when I didn't want to, even when I was afraid to face the future without WH. It is I who is proud and blessed to have you in my life. It is I who is so grateful you have become my friend not just in MB, but IRL and by the way, SmartiePants, that includes you and Chai too and Oh Miss Cinderella, Lil and many others.
Hi Queenie: Just wanted to add what an amazing woman you are! You have put on your big girl panties and taken the bull by the horns.
That being said, I, too, am amazed how low WH's will stoop to weasel themselves out of paying their just dues. Yours with the trust, mine I just noticed has taken withdrawls out of our 401K and home equity loan to finance his rock star life style.
Your attorney is there to protect your and your kids' rights. Let him do his job to get you the best settlement you can.
Me -- I'm on a mission to uncover as much backup documentation as possible to show debts on his side of the ledger. It pisses me off to no end to sort through every credit card statement and every transaction I can find, but I know this is what I have to do to protect me and the kids.
You only get one chance to negotiate the best divorce settlement as possible. You being the Goddess you are -- You need to fight for the best you can. You have endured a lot of hurt. You have endured his betrayal and abandonment. And through it all, you have continued to protect your children.
Remember -- you were part of a long term M and should be represented as such. Emphasis on LONG-TERM. This should have a bearing on the spousal support award!
I missed reading your thread for a few days because of time constraints and LOOK AT YOU!!!!!!
I am so proud of you, and am in AWE of the Goddess you are! You are an inspiration to me. I mss you heaps, and i am realling looking forward to getting to know this new Queenie with TEETH!
It really gives me joy to watch your personal growth right before my eyes.
Most of us...(me especially) are all over the board when it comes to dealing with emotions.
I keep asking questions of other MBers, seeking advice, comfort, council, etc. But you know what? When I ask God the same questions, that is when I feel the most comfort.
This journey that you and I are taking is really not about our WS's...its about US.
For me, and if you think back, for you as well, God has been trying to get our attention for a long time. When what you love the most is removed from your life, I think you have 2 choices. Give up OR Give it to God!
I am so proud that you chose the latter, I know I am.
Remember, NO ONE can betray your relationship with God! "He will never leave you nor forsake you"
I wanted to wish you all a wonderful weekend and Good Shabbas. It's been an interesting week at work and I had a few moments of dip in the attitude. But this NEW QUEENIE fights and I fought through it.
WH, he really won't understand what hit him when I am done with him. I have prayed and sought guidance from G-d on how to handle the impending D. Not what I wanted, but it seems to just continue to take a life on.
My job is uncertain and we are being asked to take a pay cut. Oh won't WH love that. I have been lining my ducks up and have inquired about getting profession opinions on how having to move again would affect YS.
I never imagined being at the point where I can totally imagine my life without WH. Again, not what I wanted, but he's a schmuck and I'm tired of being his whipping post. Let him have rode hard and put away wet in joy and happiness and beat up on her. It won't really affect her looks.
I'm going to try and get my laptop up and running so I can lay in bed and catch up on people's thread, if not, I'll be back this weekend. I am attending a Step 11 workshop on Saturday which I am very excited about. I also started going to a meeting where I am learning to be a better sponsor, it's not on AA conference approved literature, but it's a great book and applies so well in life.
My love and heart felt warmth and support to you all. I miss you guys a lot.
Gosh I have missed this place. My computer at home, actually both of them are feeling sick and I haven't been able to log on at work. I don't have the money to get the computers fixed, but I am having faith they will be ok soon.
I am actually doing ok. I'm going to just be honest and lay it out - I went on a date. A real date, where someone opened the car door for me, the door to the restaurant, where someone smiled at me because he thought I had something interesting to say and where someone thought that I wasn't a piece of garbage.
I know, I'm married, and I'm not ready for ANYTHING. But I'm not ashamed, I have done EVERYTHING I could to make this M recover. I'm not even going to that place that sucks me down and destroys what G-d has built up in me.
No word on the D yet, I haven't had a chance to meet with the lawyer and give him the financials as QUEENIE sees IT. Which is probably WAY DIFFERENT than WH. But GUESS WHAT - I DON'T CARE.
As for the dating, I'm not really dating. I went out on ONE date. I may choose to do it again. OR NOT, but I prayed and prayed about this and let G-d lead me.
My son signed up and is a Navy man. He took his physical and skills test this week and has become a member of the armed services. My YS seems to be doing a little better, I was finally able to sign him up for lacrosse which should be good for him. His grades sucked and so I came up with a responsibility chart for all family members including myself and DD. It hangs on my refrigerator and shows exactly what will happen to the children if they don't do what they are supposed to.
I'm getting ready to go on mid-winter break and don't have much planned except for maybe a little cleaning GODDESS style.
Oh did anyone hear the news..... about the man who executed his wife in San Jose, CA. Well it turns out, he lived in my apt complex, and in fact it was on the news last night AND he had enrolled his kids in our school.. The woman I work with remembers him and remembers the conversation about him moving up here and his job. Who would do that?
Unfortunately we all here have learned exactly what people are capable of even when it's out of character.
My - long time no see. I was wondering if I would get the thumbs up for you.
I went on a date. A real date, where someone opened the car door for me, the door to the restaurant, where someone smiled at me because he thought I had something interesting to say and where someone thought that I wasn't a piece of garbage.
OMG!!! Excellent news....delighted for you! So give us all the details, feels GREAT doesn't it! And just relax, enjoy it, you don't have to marry the guy!
Originally Posted by QueeniesNewLife
My son signed up and is a Navy man.
Thats great! Good secure pensionable job! Pretty exciting too, travel.......great!
Originally Posted by QueeniesNewLife
My - long time no see. I was wondering if I would get the thumbs up for you.
You have got to be kidding me! You can't seriously be comparing Queenie's sitch to SMB? Queenie's WH has been gone YEARS!!!
So you want her to sit at home in case her WS should deside to come back? Honestly! Give the girl a break! Queenie DESERVES this. You GO girl!
Please don't listen to ABSURD advice
Vladie (mfil), you just like to justify your own situation and are telling someone not to listen to sound advice. Please don't call Marks advise absurd. Unlike you he has been with Queenie since the begining and he knows that as a Jewess, Queenie needs to accept Gods laws, NOT the worlds views.
TST - Please don't call me out on a thread that is NOT YOURS again. If Queenie has a problem with my advise then so be it.
And yes I am DELIGHTED Queenie is getting out on the dating scene and enjoying herself!
Ok the reason Queenie's had such a hard time moving on is because sit and wait for you WH to come back type of advise is holding her back.
HE IS NOT COMING BACK! He's been living with crack ho for 2yrs! I suppose next you'll tell me he's a fogged out zombie who doesn't know what he's doing!
Queenie, I am glad you have had the attitude boost and the affirmations of a date EXCEPT I ,like Mark, would like to see you wait until you are single before you do it again. The world won't end but I don't want to see you get fixated on something not healthy for you.
You know, you have to finish the battle before you can declare it over.
Ok the reason Queenie's had such a hard time moving on is because sit and wait for you WH to come back type of advise is holding her back.
So when she decided, on her own I might add, that Plan B was the next step for her after doing Plan A way too long IME, and I gave her encouragement to be strong while in Plan B I was advising her to wait for her do-mas husband to give up the crack-ho and come crawling home?
My advice to Queenie always was for her to strengthen herself, her faith and her trust in God. I was the 4th person to post to her on this thread and I first posted to her on one of her other threads on July 10th 2007, 15 days after she first registered. At no time have I ever suggested that she simply wait for her WH to just decide to come home.
She chose Plan B knowing that it meant waiting to see if he would end his affair and as of right now he has not. She has now decided to move on for which I applaud her. I would have given up long ago. I will now support her as she pursues divorce because she has earned my respect and admiration.
Once he left, she had very few options open to her. She followed Plan A much longer than I thought possible and then decided to begin a Plan B phase to wait to see if he would ever wake up. My concern now is that she not entangle herself emotionally until after the divorce, not to prevent her from having the happiness she so much deserves but to make absolutely certain that she focuses on getting a divorce for the right reasons and not in an effort to be with someone else.
If she were to become romantically involved before the divorce was final it could hurt her leverage in court. It could also lessen her will to fight for what she deserves and has earned.
And until the divorce is in the books, Queenie is in fact married and if her husband were to suddenly have some sort of epiphany and want to seek reconciliation, which I think she would be nuts to attempt at this point under all but the most incredible of circumstances, she should be able to make that decision based on facts and not the emotions of her own romantic entanglement.
My reference to SMB and TST was to mention that while SMB was certain that TST was gone for good, it was as she began to become emotionally involved with another man that he snapped out of his fog-induced stupor and made one of the most valiant efforts at winning the right to return to his wife that I have witnessed.
And considering that Believer's WH approached her even after the divorce was final, well beyond two years after the affair began I think it wise for Queenie to remain, not sitting in wait for her husband to exit the fog, but to complete the process which she began, on the high-road.
I was reluctant to mention it at all because my heart breaks for Queenie, but I know that to her the most important thing is to do what is right and not merely what she feels she has earned the right to do because of someone else's wrong actions and choices. Having become Queenie's friend I can do no less than to point out to her when her actions contradict her faith and beliefs.
Queenie is MUCH stronger now than she was in November of 2007 when this thread began. She is stronger because she has worked on herself and not just sat around waiting and longing for him to come home. A year ago there was NO WAY that she would have considered a divorce. 6 months ago it would have been unthinkable to her. Her wait was not for him but for her to be ready to make the move.
Now that she is ready, I say DO IT with all haste.
I only add that until there actually is a divorce, there is still a marriage and no matter what her WH did with Crack-Ho, she needs to do what is right, not for HIM but for herself and for her faith in God.
And yes I really do believe truth and what is right is an absolute and not situational. I do not believe that someone else doing wrong to us entitles us to do wrong in return, to them or in any other way. THAT is exactly what leads to affairs in the first place. THAT is why her WH is with Crack-Ho today. He felt entitled to have an affair because he felt wronged by Queenie in some way. He justified his wrong doing by blaming her for his unhappiness and so decided that it entitled him to be happy at her expense and that of his children.
The reason she has not already moved on was because she committed to doing all she could to save her marriage first. She did that and now can move on with no regrets knowing that she left nothing undone that could be done.
Mark, you have said everything so perfectly there isn't much to add.
Queenie, our situations are very different. But one thing is the same...we both are daughters of the King whose desire is to live in His will and please Him. And because you have chosen not to live by the world's standards, dating is not the path for you YET. I stepped outside His will the moment I allowed OM the opportunity to meet my ENs. Be steadfast in your commitment to be in the center of God's will.
I am thrilled you are ready to release the baggage that holds you down in the pits. But I want you to be able to look back on this time in your life and know that you pleased God by continuing to live in His will. I know that that is important to YOU.
It isn't about being faithful to WS anymore. It's about being faithful to God.
You ALL happen to be right. I have worked extrememly hard to become the woman G-d has always designed for me and to begin dating or letting someone feed me continually is just wrong at this point.
I would NEVER have considered doing what I did without seeking G-d for guidance and talking to my spiritual advisors. I didn't do this for any reason but just to experience what is possible in my new future. I won't believe what I did was wrong because I followed all the channels I have come to learn to follow. But that doesn't mean I have free reign to date. I am still married and I take that seriously.
I love my H and to this day I believe that we could have made a go from what happened. But G-d had other plans and I have worked very hard to just plain accept.
Mark you are so right, in the beginning I was absolutely destroyed, I couldn't function, I couldn't imagine a life without my H, or even mention D. I have worked so flippin hard to learn about how I caused the problems in my M and to make those changes so that if G-d allowed the chance I was ready to be his warrior and recover what I held so dear, my marriage and my H. To continue to date until my D is final for me in the long run is wrong. FOR ME..... Not because people tell me but who because of who I have become.
I NEEDED this experience, I believe G-d gave me this experience because of my hard work at becoming the woman he designed for me, but now it's time to just wait for more blessings of that kind to come.
I'm not a martyr, I'm a woman and I got to experience that. I am so grateful that you all have been honest with me and supportive of me with your OWN opinions. Because truly it took a VILLAGE to help me live again.
This journey of mine isn't completed until the ink is dry and my M is over. What I learned about myself is that I did marry for life, that there will always be a part of me who is still M to this man and no D will ever erase that. I will always be the wife who made a convenant with this man not once but twice. He is my soul mate and every day he isn't with me there is a hole in my heart. I loved him completely and totally. I was willing to lay my life down for him and I didn't know that before. I was willing to sell my soul for him to get him to come home and that wasn't G-ds plan for me. I was willing to do whatever it took to recover my M and who knows maybe the miracle can still happen one day. And if it's G-ds plan it will come to be.
Through this journey I have learned I am a woman who loves deeply and completely and it's time to let G-d give me someone else to share life with when the time is right. We are HUMANS and the real truth is we don't TOTALLY know what G-ds plan is. We have a manuscript to follow but like the rabbis say put torah in a room of 1 and you have at least 2 opinions.
What I have come to learn is that we each make our way through life the very best we know how, we set standards and morals for ourselves according to OUR very own relationship with G-d. I don't judge you for making your choices, and I don't judge myself anymore. I just live my life to please G-d and let him lead me as I interpret through listening, praying, meditating and talking to people whose values I trust and have come to rely on.
Now granted there are absolutely rights and wrong and WH hit the WRONG BUTTON BIG TIME. I could have become a bitter woman out to scorn and screw over, but instead I have G-d's light of love and life living in me stronger and deeper than ever before.
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Be steadfast in your commitment to be in the center of God's will.
I think this absolutely says it all. I am steadfast in my commitment to G-d's will. He just threw in a piece of fun for ONE TIME until it's over.
Now, I am going to tell you, I'm NOT WAITING A YEAR to DATE once the D is FINAL.... I'm going to LET GO and let G-d LEAD ME.
I promise, NO MORE DATING until the D is final. Its not hard to do what's right when you include your relationship with G-d in the mix.
LOL
It was always my vision to walk through this trauma with grace and dignity and I believe I have. I wasn't wrong for going out on ONE DATE, but more than that would be for ME... ONLY ME...
I still don't judge others on here or in real life. How we deal with, how we walk through, how we learn and how we grow is between you and G-d. Not people to people. If someone chooses to date before their D is final that's their choice and their walk and I don't believe that I have the right to tell them they are wrong.
HOWEVER, I NEED you all to help me learn about MY WALK with G-D and help me to develop the relationship I was meant to be. I respect all of you with your differing opinions because you are all capable of being accountable to yourself and your G-d. That's what I needed to learn.
When I came here my relationship was a hope. Today my relationship is the most important thing I have and along with it I have met some of the most amazing human beings who stand for what they believe regardless if it is different and because it is different.
I am a better person because of you who helped me find G-d, helped me to continue to nurture my relationship with G-d and helped me to find the womanly warrior in me to fight G-ds battle that he needed me to find.
The fat lady hasn't sung, but she is getting dressed.
I don't have a full week of mid-winter break, just today and Monday, but I could maybe Friday.
OT but a bit of good news. DD23 and her hubby (DSIL25) just got the keys to their first house! It was bank owned, and is a total mess inside, but nothing big is wrong with it. Their Real Estate Agent is the dad of DSIL's best friend-who happens to be dating DD26. It's always interesting isn't it?
Let your OS know that I am very proud of him. And I know the mixture of pride/anxiety you are feeling about having a child in the military. My OS will be commissioned in 2010 in the US Army.
When did they get old enough to decide to do this?
I'm concerned about your focus on finding a man before finding yourself, Queenie.
I continue to be concerned about you but don't want to be preachy.
You sooo trigger my codependency issues.
You are truly lovable and likeable, making folks gloss over the self-destructive stuff that you continue to do.
IMO, the fact that you went on a date is a serious matter..while you are working on your addiction at this time. You know that and you knew exactly what you were doing.
You ALL happen to be right. I have worked extrememly hard to become the woman G-d has always designed for me and to begin dating or letting someone feed me continually is just wrong at this point.
I would NEVER have considered doing what I did without seeking G-d for guidance and talking to my spiritual advisors. I didn't do this for any reason but just to experience what is possible in my new future. I won't believe what I did was wrong because I followed all the channels I have come to learn to follow. But that doesn't mean I have free reign to date. I am still married and I take that seriously.
Here is this FOGGY talk again. What in the world are you saying? You are conflicting yourself over and over again. Dating is WRONG in the first paragraph but in the second paragragh you "won't believe it was wrong". Which one is it? GOD and your spiritual advisors told you to do it?
Are you being HONEST, Queenie? I know about how ADDICTS communicate...YUCK..
You were a little blunter than I was trying to be, and I was intending to work a little dialogue into the mix to arrive at that point, but I totally agree with what you have pointed out in its entirety.
I was just going to try to get her to come to that conclusion on her own.
But since you brought it up...
Queenie, look at what Mimi quoted and tell me what YOU see.
Queenie is MUCH stronger now than she was in November of 2007 when this thread began.
I don't exactly agree with this.
I'm saying this out of love and care for you, Queenie..as much love and care that can be established from knowing you anonymously on this forum...and we know each other a bit more than that although we have not spoken or met in person...
Just a few weeks ago, you admitted to be actively working on a FOOD ADDICTION...
This seems to have developed over time OR was present all along...
I don't think we are being helpful to you if we close our eyes to this and pretend that this did not occur...
So while battling THAT ADDICTION, you open yourself up to another ADDICTION..an AFFAIR ADDICTION..
Queenie, you know yourself how you are different than many others here...
You are prone to situations of wanting to GET HIGH...
I don't think it's healthy for us to ENABLE you in your ADDICTIVE process
And I think you are being DISHONEST with us, being DISHONEST with people who have grown to care about you.
You stayed away from the forum, went on a date, full well knowing that this would not be supported by most of us that have been following you...
Then, you come back and say, "I'm sorry..I should have known better...
Queenie, don't go down this road of playing games with people who have grown to care about you...
Then, we reject you..then you rationalize this as a reason to continue to USE...
Did you look into that treatment program at the local university? The goal now is to work on YOURSELF..LEARNING TO LOVE YOURSELF...It is not at all time for getting into a relationship...until YOU are EMOTIONALLY and PHYSICALLY HEALTHY...
Did you look into that treatment program at the local university? The goal now is to work on YOURSELF..LEARNING TO LOVE YOURSELF...It is not at all time for getting into a relationship...until YOU are EMOTIONALLY and PHYSICALLY HEALTHY...
I had all these things typed in to say to defend my actions, but then I wrote something that made me understand what you meant. I didn't get it until just now and I'm sorry.
I came on here to post to you that Mimi is right. I asked for tst's perspective on this, being that he has been in recovery for drug/alcohol addiction for 25 years.
He agreed completely with Mimi. Your addictions need dealt with before ANYTHING else.
Here is this FOGGY talk again. What in the world are you saying? You are conflicting yourself over and over again. Dating is WRONG in the first paragraph but in the second paragragh you "won't believe it was wrong". Which one is it? GOD and your spiritual advisors told you to do it?
Are you being HONEST, Queenie? I know about how ADDICTS communicate...YUCK..
Dating is wrong. A date was something to occupy my time and yes take the pain and sadness away, therefore feed my addiction which at all costs doesn't want to feel the pain. Because it still frickin hurts. OK. I'm doing one more thing that I don't want to do. I love my H, I miss him so much but come on, he isn't coming home, he isn't going to wake up and miss me or his children, well maybe his children.
Anything I say at this point is going to sound like I'm in my victim role or justify my actions and I just simply am not healed enough to cleanly walk through this.
And to be honest, my pattern is to run. I know you care about me, I know you want me to heal, but I'm embarrased and I have nothing to say that will make it better.
I checked into a treatment program. My insurance will not pay one dime and it costs a minimum of 6000.00. I would ask you to remember one thing, as much as you care about my I too care about YOU, you saved my life when I didn't want to move forward or live. I trusted you to go into Plan B when I didn't want to go and I have kept walking when all I wanted to do was give up.
But I'm human, I'm still hurting deeply inside and G-d understands I'm at my breaking point.
Thank Holy, I appreciate the covering for me. And yes, it is ok for me to go out with a group of friends. And yes, maybe I am using the wrong word. What date means to me isn't what the world says.
However, that isn't the point Mimi is making. She is right, I didn't just decide one day to do this, I have to look at what I was thinking beforehand that precipitated the action. You see, I am an addict in so many aspects of my life and she is making me look at how my behavior doesn't just happen. My addictive mind goes to places and I justify it or plan it and instead of coming here and saying I'm wanting to go out to dinner with this man, I conveniently used this time when my computer wasn't working to go out.
I'm not going to get into an argument about whether dating or a date or dinner is wrong for all people, Mimi is talking about ME and my ability to hurt myself or be self-destructive for whatever reason that hasn't truly be realized. Instead of keeping working through the pain of what it is, I have the uncanny ability to side track myself when the pain hurts or I have feelings that I don't want to have.
I am lonely and I'm not ready for an affair or even a relationship, but going out to dinner did give me a high from the pain and sadness of my M ending in the last way, legally. And so many on here have watched me walked through this time trying to become a healthy person in all ways possible. And this addict mind loves the high of whatever because it allows me to escape and when I'm so close to the end, I'm trying to escape as much as possible.
Got your text. Call me if you want to. Obviously, I'm around and able to talk. Just hanging out, posting on MB and enjoying listening to my dog SNORE!!! (and she's not even that big!)
Question - Do you wait the five years for Divorce or do you date before that when YOU"RE ready?
LOL... your good I'll give you that.
I personally don't believe that those conditions warrant not being able to date before the final decree, provided that someone isn't an addict and has completed the process of recovering.
That's more what this is about. Not shortchanging my recovery because the "high or fun" feels good. If I do, then I have cheated G-d in healing me as the woman he envisioned for me. I am an addict Vladi, I created a sick life for myself and I have to live a new way that is true to myself. I'm still discovering myself, learning how to live in a healthy manner so I have to be careful about what my truths are.
I am an addict Vladi, I created a sick life for myself and I have to live a new way that is true to myself. I'm still discovering myself, learning how to live in a healthy manner so I have to be careful about what my truths are.
Good call! My point was if and when you are ready and living in a 'healthy manner, you do whats right for you.
Question - Do you wait the five years for Divorce or do you date before that when YOU"RE ready?
LOL... your good I'll give you that.
Lol - well in Ireland where all my family still live, you have to be seperated 5yrs! Up until 1997 you couldn't even get a divorce! What should you do there? Never date again!!!
Queenie, whatever decision you feel most comfortable with is the right one for you.
I know it's gonna feel like I'm picking on a specific person , but trust me, that is not my intent.
What I quoted above is the base trouble with the world we live in right now and is the reason affairs happen at all.
Right and wrong aren't derived from feelings. Right and wrong are one or the other, within context, every single time. What changes as far as context is not a person or a feeling that they have, but usually unknown, at least unseen, factors that can't even be identified that prevent what is normally wrong from being wrong at that particular instant, though it is usually the other way around and what is normally right can turn out to be wrong based on context.
The problem with deciding what is wrong or right from feelings is that feelings change so radically from moment to moment and day to day. It is in fact how a wayward becomes wayward and how people justify an affair. What makes me feel good is not necessarily right and Queenie should understand this idea better than most since it is what leads addicts to follow their addiction.
I would feel a whole lot better and be much happier if I had enough money to retire, or just quit my job and walk away. I could spend my days doing what I want to do. I could have the house my wife and I always dreamed of. I could have horses in the barn, cattle in the pasture and a staff of 40 to take care of it all. My wife and I could do whatever we wanted any time we wanted and would be able to spend our days together. We would be happy. It would FEEL great.
Nothing wrong with wishing...
But robbing a bank or swindling someone out of THEIR money in order to feel happier myself can't ever be right, except under perhaps the most incredible set of circumstances that would have to be tailor made to justify robbing a bank or stealing money from someone else. And even that set could not be applied to my wishing for more money.
I do want so much for Queenie to be happy. It's why I post to her at all, to lift her spirits and give her a reason to hope, not that WH will let go of the crack ho, but that she can have a fulfilling life in spite of him being with Crack Ho.
As far as dating based on old world customs that are no longer true, not even a valid argument so I'll not touch it right now.
As far as dating before divorce based on some sense that the marriage is over already...
Isn't that exactly what a wayward does in order to have an affair? They say "The marriage is over anyway..." so it must be right to date now...Can't be right now and wrong for them. Right and wrong are constants and not variables.
And yes, I could create a specific set of variables that would allow for a one time reversal of a single idea of right and wrong, but there would no doubt be a disconnect in logic someplace along the way or a set of given data that makes the entire argument moot.
But here is my best argument for what I am saying:
Feeling good is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with feeling good about yourself or anything else. Being happy is not wrong and happy people are more productive and better contributors to society than unhappy people.
But Queenie's husband left her to be "happy" and "feel good" about something. He followed his "high" instead of his promise to Queenie. Same as living to drink, smoking when you know it's bad for you and lighting the crack pipe because you want to feel good again.
Feeling good about yourself is not the right reason to date.
And no, I would not have Queenie sit around being miserable for the rest of her days. But until she is no longer married & is dating for some reason other than to feel better (that's called getting high, BTW) any reason to date is merely a justification for feeling better for a short time.
As for the archaic laws that forbid divorce under any circumstances...
But until she is no longer married & is dating for some reason other than to feel better (that's called getting high, BTW) any reason to date is merely a justification for feeling better for a short time.
And I truly get this. It's about ME not others, not my judgement of what others need to do but that I have a different journey than other people and I don't have the luxury of doing something that feels good, I have the responsibility to G-d and my recovery to finish the healing process until the end and trust him that when I get to the other side, where ever that is I will be the woman he designed for me.
I was lead to where WH used to work to talk to the one person who I know he still had contact with in some fashion. At first he was so hesitant to talk to me, but I just let G-d give me the words to say.
I have no pride anymore, I was fighting one last time for my family. I told him about MB, about how I had made a mess of our M, about how much I still loved H and just wanted him to come home and create a new marriage.
I was there looking to see if this person saw the changes in WH because he knew him to be a devoted father and husband. He said that they NEVER talked about personal stuff. I asked him when he saw WH last. He told me in December. I asked him if he seemed happy. He didn't give me a straight answer so I dug in for answers.
This person repeately asked me if I had a way of getting ahold of WH, I said no and that in fact I hadn't talked to him since 3-17-08. He told me that he talked to him this passed Friday and she was still gone, he was living alone.
I hugged him and promised him I would NOT contact him, because I KNOW that I am NO LONGER that woman who controls, but asked him to pray for WH, to pray that WH was lead back to G-d and his path for him. I told him about all I had learned, about how much I loved him and wanted him to come home, but that I loved him enough to let him go. I told him about MB, about how we both, but for sure me had lived in a dry drunk for so many years and that my H needed a wife, not someone who would take his journey away from him.
I don't know what happened, I know that I could delay the D if I wanted to, but I'm not sure. I wasn't kidding when I said I was done with WH. He is a monster and he is still extremely foggy. I have NO BUSINESS getting involved or even appearing over there, he is in G-ds hands.
I am stepping up my prayers. I want my family reunited, but it's has to be G-ds will and G-ds timing. NOT MINE.
He gave me some interesting information about crack ho. Don't know where it fits into the story, but it certainly puts a match on how WH met her.
He commented on how WH always talked about his kids, but that she started showing up and he couldn't understand it. She was so rough looking. I asked him if he knew she was a crack addict with hep c and what he told me was so strange. Remember, WH told me he bumped into her at this store and it was instant attraction.
Evidently she was friends with one of the drivers at work and the driver was really bad news and did drugs and so after seeing her and knowing this person he could only surmise she was bad news too.
This friend knows my H is in a crisis of the highest magnitude. All I told him again after thanking him, was that I was just going to let G-d work it out. That I loved my H so much, that I wanted our family back so badly, but it had to be because it was G-ds will and that to please keep praying.
I did give him permission to tell my H he had a home to come to if he wanted to, but that I wasn't going to contact him and that I was going to pray.
I think he was impressed and believed that I just wanted my H to be happy.
YEP!!!! Around 4ish? I will be waaayyy done helping at DD's place by then. I can only scrape up carpeting and paint sealer on walls for so long and then I gotta take a break.
I seem to remember doing this with my first house-oh so many years ago. The joys of the "first" house.
Ok, I realize I am a slow at times on here and downright draining.
But come on give a girl a break. I find out that WH and OW and I have been quiet for hours. Can't I get a little hug for not falling back into old behaviors.
In fact, this GODDESS is about to meet her friend JT and have a wonderful afternoon in the sunshine in the PNW.
For not rushing to HIS aid and fixing it, but absolutely being quiet in her heart and totally trusting G-d with the future. Because unbelievably as it seems, that's what's happened. I don't feel like I have to go save him. I just pray for him. I pray for G-d to provide him with what he needs.
I pray that he finds G-d in his life and becomes the man G-d envisioned for him.
That IS great news Queenie. But (you knew that was coming)... I don't understand this:
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I did give him permission to tell my H he had a home to come to if he wanted to, but that I wasn't going to contact him and that I was going to pray.
Really? Why would you do that? (give permission to tell your WH that he has a home to come to if he wanted to...) Just like that? No effort or work on his part to make amends to his family? I'm hoping that you said it just to get the conversation going... not as a serious invite for him back into your life as if nothing happened.
If he does want to come home you have to make him earn that right Raise the bar so high he needs to fly to clear it.
You know you can't fix him so don't accept less than 100% surrender to God from him. Unconditional surrender is all that will do any good in the long run.
The friend doesn't need to tell him that he can come home. Your Plan B letter told him that. You also told him what it will take from him for him to return to you and the kids. He has not returned because he is not ready to do what you need. Don't settle for less than 100% commitment from him.
I think this proves my original premise that till divorce is final you need to wait before dating. He might never come home, but the last thing you need is to begin a new relationship and then find out he is willing to do whatever it takes to win you back only to have you lost in your own fog.
I'll leave it alone for now. Just remember that you can't fix him and God won't till he is completely broken and at the end of himself...
That is my prayer for him, that he hits bottom with nowhere to turn. My prayer for you is that you will only take him back if he has recovered from that condition and has let God fix him inside and out.
I think this proves my original premise that till divorce is final you need to wait before dating. He might never come home, but the last thing you need is to begin a new relationship and then find out he is willing to do whatever it takes to win you back only to have you lost in your own fog. Mark
IMO all this proves is Queenie clearly isn't ready yet. Even if she was divorced tomorrow, she still wouldn't be ready to begin a new relationship.
Thats why I don't think its fair to say that after D its ok. Some people are ready long before a D can be final - and I'm talking about places where D takes a few years!
That is my prayer for him, that he hits bottom with nowhere to turn. My prayer for you is that you will only take him back if he has recovered from that condition and has let God fix him inside and out.
That is my ONLY prayer for HIM as well.
This is his battle, not mine and NO I am NOT taking the WH back, only the one who G-d allows back into my life. This is NOT MY SHOW. NOT MY CONTROL..
G-d is in charge, G-ds will is all I am looking for.
I had to tell his friend that he had a home to come to. BUT THAT'S ALL.
What I KNOW and TRUST G-d has a plan and I'm following him. NOT MY IDEA. NOT MY WANTS.
It was NEVER my intent to start a new relationship, but we have already completed that conversation and in the end, really NOTHING has changed. He is still WH, and he has NOT made any attempt to come home or even contact his children, forget me.
We have NO IDEA what is happening over in his world, and I'm just not willing to go there or open up to that pain.
The old Skinsgal would be fixing it, consuming my thoughts, blah blah. This new Queenie of G-d simply TRUSTS G-D and his plan. I'm in a good space. I'm looking at what is real. I'm in Plan B, I'm not looking to contact him, I'm not looking to become enmeshed in his ICKINESS, I'm just letting go and letting G-d.
NO PM, I'm not leaving it an open invitation without work to be done at all. It was just the opportunity to plant in his head that there was a way home. I plan to stay very close to this place and make sure I stay on the straight and narrow and not even open the door to that old marriage. It's DEAD.
Oh My, don't you see how actually perfect it really is. I'm not hopeful, I'm at peace. I'm in a place where all I have is to TRUST G-d and keep working on me. I'm learning about me. I'm learning that I can live without him and have for a very long time. I'm not the woman he left. I'm not the pathetic creature who would have taken him back.
But I am his wife and I love the man that he once was and could be, and I had to reach out to him for my own sake. NOT HIS. But I will NOT become enmeshed with WH.
I am in Plan B. I have NO IDEA what's happening over there. It's quite frankly none of my business. I'm in the business of taking care of my children, moving forward with my D if that is G-ds will and living my own life.
I am open to G-ds will. I am open to creating a NEW relationship with a man that I was once married to, but the standards have been RAISED and he has to meet them to even get a date with me.
Remember, I'm still married, I need to complete that first. LOL
There's your hug... and I'm with Mark. I loved that he pointed out the beauty of the plan B letter. WH already knows how to get home if or when he decides to turn that way.
Queenie, if he comes crawling back, is that really enough. What if all he wants is sex and a maid? What if he talks pretty talk but can't treat you well? Why would you want him?
Is this desire for him merely a way to get out of working on your issues? Would his presence make anything better?
I don't think he deserves you! I don't think you need who he really is. You deserve better.
I hope the OW stays away though. I think he needs that distance for his own spiritual and physical health.
Oh I absolutely agree. He is on a journey that just simply isn't going to include me yet... If ever.
I agree, she is a freeloader and lives on state assistance, she had it made living with him. We don't have enough details to surmise what happened and I absolutely refuse to get caught up in that drama.
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What if all he wants is sex and a maid?
LOL, if this were true, then he is ABSOLUTELY an IMPROVEMENT over the old H. The old one never wanted sex. I'd take this one in a heartbeat.
Since my time on here you have all said over and over when you will know the difference between your WS or broken one. I'll know. I will know because it will be in his eyes, it will be the way he calls me Bright Eyes. I won't settle for anyone else. I'm not settling for crumbs, I'm not taking back the monster. I want a man who is designed by G-d and healed to be my H. And that's not him YET.
You know Cinders, if I have it my all, if I was that healthy wife all those years and he did this, then yes I would absolultely agree, but I DID'T do my best and I WANT the CHANCE to make amends for MY PART. This is about ME and me letting MYSELF heal and clean up the wreckage of my PAST.
I deserve the chance to finish my healing process and I would like it to be with the man that I made a commitment to, the man who even as much as a jerk as he can be he is still who holds my heart, and is the father of my children.
When G-d is done creating a new man, he is the best for me.
Regardless of what we all think, me included. I am convinced, thank you very much JT, that G-d will ask me what I want and if the time is right will bless me with his answer.
I'm not trying to get out of working on my issues. I'm not looking to become enmeshed with this loser today. I'm still living my life, healing myself, going to meetings, learning about myself and not concentrating on him.
He's in G-ds hands. G-d will work out the details on how he comes home, its not for me to figure out but stay close to him and be still. Give G-d time to work his plan out that he has. Not me running around like a caged animal wanting what I want without knowing if it's his plan on not.
Regardless of what we all think, me included. I am convinced, thank you very much JT, that G-d will ask me what I want and if the time is right will bless me with his answer.
Queenie, Your journey has been long and tiring...I know. You have only begun YOUR healing process. You are in God's hands, remember that OK? Whatever you do, remember that God will reveal His path for you and will expect you to follow. You can't do any more than that.
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He's in G-ds hands. G-d will work out the details on how he comes home, its not for me to figure out but stay close to him and be still. Give G-d time to work his plan out that he has. Not me running around like a caged animal wanting what I want without knowing if it's his plan on not.
You just wrote these words.....seek God and ensure you will really MEAN these words when the time comes....k?
I think you as much as anyone understands the journey we have be on. I have been an obedient servant to G-d to learn new ways to live, to understand what I was dealing with even when my emotions were running me.
It's so weird, if this had happened 6 months ago even a month ago perhaps I wouldn't be as calm or just at peace knowing G-d is taking care of it.
I love my husband so much. I have become a wise woman of G-d to realize this is about HIS JOURNEY, not MINE. If I even entertain interferring, I will ruin it all and NEVER get what I hope because I wasn't living the life or practicing the new traits that I have been given.
I am not one of the people on here who can ask why did this happen. I know why. I know that the both of us were dying inside in our own way and that G-d had seen enough. As long as I remember I am an addict, attend meetings, working my program, but mostly seek G-d in ALL things, I pray I will continue to move forward.
I think you as much as anyone understands the journey we have be on. I have been an obedient servant to G-d to learn new ways to live, to understand what I was dealing with even when my emotions were running me.
It's so weird, if this had happened 6 months ago even a month ago perhaps I wouldn't be as calm or just at peace knowing G-d is taking care of it.
I love my husband so much. I have become a wise woman of G-d to realize this is about HIS JOURNEY, not MINE. If I even entertain interferring, I will ruin it all and NEVER get what I hope because I wasn't living the life or practicing the new traits that I have been given.
I am not one of the people on here who can ask why did this happen. I know why. I know that the both of us were dying inside in our own way and that G-d had seen enough. As long as I remember I am an addict, attend meetings, working my program, but mostly seek G-d in ALL things, I pray I will continue to move forward.
Queenie, Your almost right....this is very much about you!! Remember that God loves all His children the same. He was/is dealing with you and your walk with Him. You had to demonstrate that you could and would be a servent of God and follow His direction. You have to continue to seek His guidance in EVERYTHING you do and say...if not then some of this has all been for naught.
If you really mean that you have surrendered your life to God, and I know you have, then all things are possible.
Just remember that your DUTY to your H is to pray for him....nothing else!!
Please do not get caught up in the expectations of his possible return. Satan would love nothing more than for you to revert back to old ways. Ask God to give you strenght and for protection of your heart.
You had to demonstrate that you could and would be a servent of God and follow His direction. You have to continue to seek His guidance in EVERYTHING you do and say...if not then some of this has all been for naught.
ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT QUESTION....
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Just remember that your DUTY to your H is to pray for him....nothing else!!
I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND..... I know it's HARD for PEOPLE to believe, but I DO....
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Please do not get caught up in the expectations of his possible return.
I don't believe I am. Where I MIGHT be caught up is hoping that if SHE is out of the picture, then WH at the VERY LEAST would find enough deceny in himself to help me financially. NOT COME HOME... Just give me the spousal support I NEED to continue and raise his children until the last one graduates. I have to say I am HOPING for that.
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Ask God to give you strenght and for protection of your heart
this is GOOD, I hadn't thought of this. Thank you.
I realize it's very easy for me to say what I will do, because the truth of the matter is WH hasn't made contact with me or his children. NOTHING HAS CHANGED except information that they broke up.
I'm acting as if... and keeping close to the LORD......as if I am the TRUE GODDESS I worked hard to become and just allow G-d to have this and leave it alone.
Kick, if you can imagine anything... Just my mere words are better than I used to be.... LOL..... I know it's hard for people to imagine. But I wasn't broken so deeply I haven't forgotten that pain that lived inside of me. I won't EVER go back there.
Kick, if you can imagine anything... Just my mere words are better than I used to be.... LOL..... I know it's hard for people to imagine. But I wasn't broken so deeply I haven't forgotten that pain that lived inside of me. I won't EVER go back there.
I said to you before that I've read your entire thread...several times....and I can see your growth. That is why I stress to you that this really is about YOU....no other.
When you give a testimony about the works God does for you, in words or written, the angels in heaven rejoice.
I am just letting G-d do what he is doing. I'm surrendered and just being. Nothing more, nothing less.
In fact, I am happily making out invitations to our mayor, state legislature and senators and union big wigs for an annual classified staff dinner that I am in charge of arranging, so my attention is being kept occupied.
To hold myself accountable to my recovery I called my AA sponsor to tell her what I had found out and what was going on.
She is NOT HAPPY with me at all. But getting over that she said something that has seriously pushed my buttons and I'm not sure if I'm overreacting or mixing semantics.
In telling her what I had heard I called it an affair and she jumped down my throat. She told me they weren't having an affair, but had a relationship. What I feel like she is doing is legitimizing what he did and I'm simply not going to go there.
She also doesn't buy into the MB theory on affairs at all so I can't even go there with her. Which I have no desire. She will think what she thinks, doesn't make it right.
Naw, you're not being too sensitive. I'm not sure why your AA sponsor would say that, but two possibilities come to mind.
1) Perhaps she has had a "relationship" so she has a hard time accepting that it was really an "affair" or
2) She believes the Lifetime movie/pop culture idea that any romantic connection is a "relationship" and isn't really "wrong" because-after all-"if it feels right, it can't be wrong."
But, I wouldn't try to change her mind. Your work with her is about you and working the steps. Of course, you could say something like "You are right, I used the wrong word when I said "affair". The dictionary says that when a married person has a relationship outside of their marriage, it's called adultery or infidelity. I'll just say those from now on." and then, give her your best goddess smile.
Or you could just keep the semantics lesson to yourself and give her the smile anyway. That might be more fun.
To hold myself accountable to my recovery I called my AA sponsor to tell her what I had found out and what was going on.
She is NOT HAPPY with me at all. But getting over that she said something that has seriously pushed my buttons and I'm not sure if I'm overreacting or mixing semantics.
In telling her what I had heard I called it an affair and she jumped down my throat. She told me they weren't having an affair, but had a relationship. What I feel like she is doing is legitimizing what he did and I'm simply not going to go there.
She also doesn't buy into the MB theory on affairs at all so I can't even go there with her. Which I have no desire. She will think what she thinks, doesn't make it right.
Having sponsored people in AA over the years, I see a red flag in how your sponsor has responded to the word Affair vs relationship.
If you and your sponsor do not line up on this MAJOR life area, you need to seek out another sponsor.
She cannot advise you effectively in working through the 12 steps unless both of your philosophies regarding YOUR BIGGEST life event in the last 15 years line up.
Or you could just keep the semantics lesson to yourself and give her the smile anyway. That might be more fun.
Agreed...
She wants me to see REALITY so bad and just won't allow that I might be on to something here.
Oh well....
I don't understand how your sponsor feels calling it an affair is a denial of reality on your part. Yes, they are having (or had) a relationship. We define all kinds of relationships in our life. Their relationship is an affair. Your relationship with him is a marriage. Did you feel that she was balking at you calling it an affair, or was she balking at the idea that you see an "affair" as an addiction?
I saw you drop by my thread & had to come by to say hello and see what's up. I've not had much time for MB as of late,,,just a few moments from time to time to drive by and read a few posts.
So sorry I haven't been keeping up with you, as it sounds like there are a few things new.
I don't have a lot of time, but I will throw in my 2 cents on your sponsor's issue with the labeling of your WH's 'relationship' as an affair.
I'll just be my usual blunt self,,,,and say what a load of crapola. As someone who is supposed to be versed in the world of addicts and addiction, I would think that as a sponsor she would be able to call a spade a spade.
You can dress up a pig and call it a queen,,,,it's STILL a pig.
You can call an affair a relationship,,,,,it's STILL an affair.
It's STILL ADULTERY!
I'm with tst on the fact that this is a pretty big issue to be at odds with the person who is supporting you in your on going recovery. Think about it for a bit. Pray about it. But do consider you may need to think about a new sponsor who can better relate in this matter. Again,,,just my 2 cents.
You are not being overly sensitive here.
Ok, now that is out of the way. I think you are doing GREAT!!! Not overreacting to the possibility of the crack Ho being outta the picture,,,,,,,,,,, FABULOUS!!
Keeping WH where he belongs - in G-d's hands!! OUTSTANDING!!
Staying focused on YOU and your well being,,,,VERY GODDESS Like!
Girl, you got it going on. And you are such a joy & help to so many others here on the board.
Queenie, I am alway impressed with your faith. So many times I struggle with mine and turning it over to God and letting go.
I felt a jolt of excitement that WH and crack ho broke up. It gives us hope for all of us.
I know it is a long path but it could still be a path. Have you thought abobut giving a 2nd Plan B letter in the near future if WH is still broken up. In this way you can let him know the door can still be open with serious boundaries.
Still continue on with D but try to delay and play it out.
Have you thought abobut giving a 2nd Plan B letter in the near future if WH is still broken up. In this way you can let him know the door can still be open with serious boundaries.
I think this would be a BAD idea in your situation, Queenie.
IF, and that is a BIG IF, you were to consider giving WS an admission ticket into your life, it had better be after he has PROVEN HIMSELF.
Hope, Queenie's WS has completely checked out of her and her kids lives and has been that way for a very long time.
Have you thought abobut giving a 2nd Plan B letter in the near future if WH is still broken up. In this way you can let him know the door can still be open with serious boundaries.
I think this would be a BAD idea in your situation, Queenie.
...IF and WHEN WS attempts to make contact and shows an interest in M recovery....and IF Queenie wants to, I would I suggest a 2nd copy of PLB to remind WS of what needs to happen first (in case he forgot)
...in the meantime, Queenie is very busy being and learning to be... a GOODESS!
Thank you all for your input. Yes, Exodus, I feel that my sponsor is attacking two things. She feels that because I am willing to still call it an affair it somehow negates that I have accepted reality as it is. And no, she doesn't buy that it is an addiction at all and he is just a sick human being and I should be done with him. She doesn't buy into this thinking that once the affair had ended, that after a period of time, withdrawal, etc. he would go back to being who he was. But see, what I have to ACCEPT, who he was before all this was someone very unhappy in his life, like I was. He is looking and running to find something and I can't be in his way or deter the lessons he has to learn for himself.
Bugs, I'm am so glad to see you. How are you? I haven't seen you around and was hoping to get an update in your life. I am working hard to rise up to my GODDESS self and just keep on pace. Obviously I had a slip, it was bound to happen, but I went to the meeting last night and the topic was ACCEPTANCE...
PERFECT....
Yes, Plan B letter would be nice to give him, but I communicated to his friend there was a door open to home. I'm not contacting WH at all. For a few reasons. I have in all honestly not had one word of contact with WH since March 17, 08 and as much as it killed me it was what G-d wanted clearly.
Two - I have still not received the garnishment wages from WH's work and he has made NO attempt to contact me or even take care of his responsibilities. He is from what little facts I have being a total jerk WH and I am NOT about to be in line for his poison. If I have learned anything it's that he is toxic and sick and I am better off without WH. If there was SOMETHING on HIS part to make amends, open the door, take care of his children, ANYTHING... I would be posting about it, seeking advice etc. BUT NOTHING.. and from what I can tell he is still living life happy by running around playing lacrosse, soccer and being a single man now and reconnecting with high school people. He hasn't tried to contact his children, he hasn't made sure we were taken care of financially and is arguing he is entitled to a trust fund that I received AFTER he left.
This is HIS journey and HIS struggle with G-d. G-d spoke two me one day over a year ago and told me to STAY OUT OF IT. DO NOTHING. All I have is to TRUST G-d. I love this man so very much. I have to accept that there is a path that G-d has me on and it might have to include divorce. I don't want it, but my husband is a hurting human being and I love him enough to let him go and let G-d break him and build him back into who he has designed.
And I have to somehow ACCEPT is just might NOT include me or our M.
Bugs, BTW I went back and read your thread and thought to myself, what would Bugs do and that's what has helped me through this the last couple of days.
My next court date is March 6, but I'm not prepared at all. I even think that if I could just get a little more time WH might disappate a little and H will become a little stronger and have some compassion and agree to spousal support and drop the attempt to get my money.
Holy, I have gained weight back, I don't have money to get a killer outfit. All I have which in a way is good enough to me is my spirit of who I have become. I don't feel like I need to impress him or make him see what he lost. I know who and what I have become. A woman of G-d and my faith and trust in G-d is what i carry with me proudly.
Does that mean I'm giving up on losing weight, no way. But it means that I am who I am today and I'm learning to just love me the way I am instead of being something then learning to love myself. I hope that makes sense.
I don't feel like I need to impress him or make him see what he lost. I know who and what I have become. A woman of G-d and my faith and trust in G-d is what i carry with me proudly.
Does that mean I'm giving up on losing weight, no way. But it means that I am who I am today and I'm learning to just love me the way I am instead of being something then learning to love myself. I hope that makes sense.
This is the essence of the 11th step. ((((queenie)))
Queenie~ As I posted on hopenpray's thread....I have been a lurker for quite some time. Your story is another that I have been following....although I didn't go back & read all 500+ pages....I got the gist of it.
You are such an example of "Let go and let God!" Sometimes I have a little trouble with that....lol! You are filled with such trust and faith in the Lord and I wish you all the best!
Thank you so much Faith. I love it when people stop by because I love to meet new people.
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You are such an example of "Let go and let God!" Sometimes I have a little trouble with that....lol! You are filled with such trust and faith in the Lord and I wish you all the best!
Mimi, did you read this? Faith, this walk was ALWAYS about my walk, faith and TRUST in G-d. He KNEW I would seek him and surrender to him, though it was a BATTLE... The desire was there, the words were there, but the action was to keep on controlling. I'm going to have to pop onto your thread and read up on your sitch.
It's nice to meet you, I'm sorry you find yourself here, but what a wonderful place it can be.
This was my inspiration on the porcelain G-d today. The light wasn't the end of the tunnel. The light was my relationship with G-d and I live in the light now. And it is that light of G-d that I rely on to get me through the tunnel, no matter how long and how far it is.
Well I'll be glad to get back to work next week. Way too much time on my hands, though I have been very purposeful in staying close to people and talking to G-d alot.
I'm down to 10 days when I can report WH's work not paying me my child/spousal support. I can't imagine that will look good. I'm going to talk to the rental people and see if I can get a break this month so that I can reserve my money and still make some of my other bills.
The weather has been nothing short of amazing the last three days. I made it a point to hang around my girlfriend, get out, have fun and take a walk in the sun. That was a nice thing to do for myself.
My YS spent a good portion of the week with his sister and that was nice for all of us. Me a slight break, him because he got away and his sister because she knows how helpful that is for me. It seems that OS is going back to work at his older place of employment and could get as much as 35 hours a week. I have asked him to give me 300.00 a month for everything. It teaches him responsibility and it will help me out.
I have been to two AA meetings, and a food addicts meeting this week. Tonight is services and I am going to an AM meeting tomorrow, so I'm keeping myself clean on that. I haven't contacted my sponsor and not quite sure if I can, so i am praying about it.
Its taken EFFORT to not go to the WH BUSINESS, and I have had some HORRIBLE moments, but I'm doing better and think of it less and less.
Bugs, BTW I went back and read your thread and thought to myself, what would Bugs do and that's what has helped me through this the last couple of days.
Girl, if you need to be reading ANYONE'S thread for inspiration, you gotta try reading YOURS!! Sweetheart, you have come such a long way.
I totally love reading your loving advice to others and even more love reading your own acceptance of your self. You are so much stronger than you believe not so long ago.
You do realize that don't you?
You do give yourself credit don't you?
Don't overstress about the upcoming court date. You are now a woman who is much more comfortable in her own skin than ever before. THAT is what the WH will see no matter what clothing you have on! The self assurance & confidence you have gained will shine through if you only give yourself the chance to let it!!
I know I haven't been around much lately,,,,,I do try to read a bit when I can, even if I am not posting. I love ya'll around here but it doesn't always feel like I have much to contribute. I stick pretty much to the Amigo threads,,,,as I don't have the strength or ability right now to help out any of the new folks. Maybe someday.
Mark, I just got home from services and it was the best sermon. I don't know if I could repeat it like the rabbi, but this is the shabbat where G-d instructed the rich to give no more and the poor to give no less than a half shekel.
It was for the census. I am going to try and get ahold of the story that the rabbi told and post it. One of my absolute favorites about community and G-d. Very moving.
Queenie, I stop on your thread and I know you visited mine. I too admire your faith. I would love to hear God speaking to me but I guess maybe I have trouble listening. I know I need to totally let go and argue with myself all the time.
You have come such a long way. Glad you are keeping up with your meetings. I go to Alnon again and it is very supportive I am trying to work my 12 step program for myself
Thanks for stopping by and helping out. Glad the weather is good where you are.
Noticed you mentioned you tanned. I just started that around Christmas. Feels pretty good lying under those bulbs for 20 minutes just relaxing and putting everything out of my mind. Plus I look pretty tanned right now -- and tanned ALL OVER. (Too bad I have no one to show it off to. His loss!)
I'm a beach gal and a sun worshipper in the summer. So being tanned right now makes me happy! Plan B -- doing something that makes me happy for me!!!!
You and I have never really "talked" on here. BUT, I have read your thread and I do read a lot of what you write and I have to say....you are such a strong, wonderful, god-loving woman. I really admire you for that. The things that you write to people are amazing because you get your point across in such a kind way, while leaving no doubt as to what you mean. That is very admirable. You give hope and love to all. Thank you for writing what you do, because it really does make a difference to us.
I would love to hear God speaking to me but I guess maybe I have trouble listening. I know I need to totally let go and argue with myself all the time.
My AA sponsor taught me to breath in G-d, breathe out Queenie. I say that to myself all the time.
Try not to be too hard on yourself, Hope. I didn't get to this place in one day, it took me almost two years, two very long years. 21 months of absolute pain and growth because when everything was said and done, all I have is my relationship with G-d. I can't ever have it taken away, I can certainly lose it by giving it away, but it can't be taken away.
Try laying down as you go to sleep and give yourself 5 minutes to talk to G-d and a few minutes to just breathe. Or first thing in the morning when I wake up, I wish G-d a good morning, tell him how much I love him and ask him what he needs me to do today for him. Then I just TRY and sit there quiet. It will come.
Maybe pray for the willingness to hear him, or pray for the clarity of his vision, or ask him for help in hearing him. I talk to my G-d all the time, whenever it stirs my heart to talk to him. I treat him like my husband today. I ask for his guidance, his opinion, his choices, etc.
Holy, we can be sun GODDESSES together. I love the sun. In fact WH bought me a year's membership after he left. He just didn't know it.
Ah Plan B.... It has to be in your and Hope's heart to find a way, somehow to stop thinking about WH. That's one of the most hardest, most important things I grappled with and got better with over time. It's essential. I can't explain why, but somehow when we think of them we still give them the power of us.
We are learning to live a new way, we are trusting G-d, those people on us who have walked before to be dark and stay dark. Plan B doesn't bring the WH in all cases. But what it brought ME... Sanity, a life to live that I didn't want and couldn't imagine and a relationship with G-d that is my priceless joy and greatest gift.
You two are doing amazing. Take the kudos and keep asking G-d for strength to work this Plan. It's a hard one for sure.
What a very kind and thoughtful thing to say. My walk has always been about growing my non existent relationship with G-d and trusting him and learning to rely on him. From the beginning you can imagine I was a total control freak. I still have my moments, but Mimi, Mark, TMTS, JT, Smartiepants, Bugs, Strivin, Believer, Cinderella and so many others gave me encouragement, the push and held the belief that whatever they asked me to do I was willing to do.
I think I was so broken as a human being by what had happened, was beyond the ability to believe that a human being could hurt so deeply by one single event, that G-d absolutely TRUSTED ME that I would seek him out. It was all I had, and over and over again on here, people gave me scripture to read, and hugs to hold onto. There were so many nights that I fell asleep with the AA big book and Torah in my arms because I just had nothing else.
If my pain, and my experience, strength and hope can help someone else. Then I am more than grateful to those who helped me enough until I could be of some encouragement to others.
I was so lost... I can't say I feel what people feel, that would be robbing them of their pain, but I can remember the pain and I can offer that it's real it hurts and it will subside and probably eventually one day go away. I'm still learning when that will be...
But G-d knows.... for that I am sure...
It's nice to meet you Verve, I hope to talk to you some more. Have a wonderful weekend.
Queenie, I sincerely hope that you don't take this the wrong way from someone who was raised with Christian beliefs AND Christian biases, but who does not believe now, but still abides by "rules" and morals. You make me WANT to believe. You are such a kind person and it's people like you, Lildoggie, and believer who make me reassess my belief in what "Christian"/people who believe in God are. I've not had good experiences, but it's people like you three who make me reassess what I think. And, I thank you for that so much. So many people think that they can get across to us non-believers by talking about God's word, etc, but I have read the bible cover to cover, and it's people who show kindness (Love your enemies, show kindness to those who hate you, bless those who curse you. Pray for those who insult you - Luke 6:27-28 and Father, forgive them; they do not know what they are doing - Luke 23:34) who get to me.
Honestly, I'm not usually so serious. I'm a big ole' ham most of the time.
Oh Verve, are you kidding me, what you just wrote touches my heart and reaffirms to me that we are all in this TOGETHER in spite of some of our religious differences.
Pain cuts through religious lines, ethnic lines and gender lines. Pain, heartache, trauma, affects human beings. And its the common belief that we are G-ds children that helps us grow together and heal together.
There was a time, many years ago, when I YEARNED for a spiritual walk with G-d, and then I got sober, and years after that, my H and I lied to ourselves that we didn't need AA anymore and they weren't about the solution but the problem. OY VEY
So we chose to become involved in our temple and I dug into learning how to be a Jew because that was my NEED in life. I did the Jewish things, learned the traditions, the holidays, I learned about the Jewish way of life etc. But there was this HOLE that burned inside of me.
Along the years I would meet people who had a spirituality that I wanted. But I was NEVER broken enough to TRULY understand that it wasn't G-d holding back, but ME. I was the one in rebellion, living a life that was destructive, cheap, hurtful and downright dangerous.
You know Psalm 23, where is says the Lord is my Shepherd, he makes me lie down. G-d had seen enough hurt and damage going on in my life so he hit me with the infamous brick that I call it.
If you get nothing else, know this. I was exposed to AA and taught that I could create what my higher power looked like or was, I just had to find one. Instinctively I sought G-d and the night WH told me he wasn't coming home I got in my car and asked G-d if he was there and you know what? He said, I'm right here Queenie and will be ok. It was all I had left.
Your relationship with G-d is your very own personal relationship, for me, it's not about getting into heaven, but learning how to live life on life's terms so that when we do get to heaven, G-d can hug us and tell us how proud he was for the glory that we brought to him down on earth because we shouted to the world... That G-d works miracles and lives in my life daily.
I love MY G-d and you can LOVE yours TOO. He can be whatever you need him to be and he is RIGHT there wanting to be. Have fun on the journey of finding him for youself. It's the highest HIGH you will ever experience when you get to KNOW HIM...
Oh and be anyway you like with me. I'm a GODDESS.... in FACT, so are YOU....
Ahh, Queenie, you are a wonderful woman, as I stated before. It amazes me that women such as you and Lil want to speak with me, as you are such godly believers. My relationship with God is different. I am not a NON believer. I just don't believe in the bible or any organized religion. I have no doubt that there is a God, he has shown me too much. There is no DOUBT in my mind that God exists, it's just that I wouldn't name him Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Buddah, or Mohammad. I believe that all God's are one God called by different names and we have something to learn from all religions.
I learn something from people like you. So often in my life people have portrayed themselves as Christian in church, then were totally different outside of it. My mother is an example of greatness. She was of the world (as she calls it) but now she isn't. She was a completely different person before she was saved and I bless her for changing who she was. She was always a wonderful mother, but she didn't set a great example. However, for the most part, most "Christians" that I have known have wanted nothing more than to tell me how bad I am, even when I believed that I was one of them (this probably helped to change my mind). They talk crap about everyone they know, yet tell me that I am bad. I seek to be good to all people, yet, there are some who want nothing to do with me because I don't believe as they do. I thank you for not being that way. YOU are a woman to reckoned with and your WH has a lot to learn. You have realized your faults and you have striven to change them. I really do admire you, Queenie. Seriously, THANK YOU.
Queenie, thanks for sharing your pain, your sorrow, your growth, you believes and your trust in God. I agree with Vervve it is an inspiration. I am working every day on my faith and some of it is because of your faith.
Bugs, I am not so arrogant that I can't take credit anymore. If that makes any sense. You are right, I have worked so hard to come to this place, but it's because it took a village to raise me. LOL
I am accepting myself more and more because I'm just where I am supposed to be at today. That doesn't mean I don't want my physical improvements but it means that I am no longer throwing disrespect to G-d for his child. This GODDESS went on a two mile walk today at the lake. I just sat at the lake for almost an hour and grieved some more. But it's all good.
Then I got a call from my friend and we went to a Jewish Rock Concert. It was awesome. I've done a GODDESS job of keeping busy and not allowing the dark doors inside today.
You are so right, I am way more comfortable in my skin. I am not stressing over the court date, I am probably looking at wanting to delay it only because of allowing WH's company time to get out of compliance and maybe get them in trouble or seeing if the fog lifts just a tad to have an easier time as I move through the D. My life is in G-ds hands and I keep close and open to hear his instructions to me.
The AA meeting this morning was on change. I certainly have changed.
I see you were on today I think. I'm going to hop on over and see what's happening in your world.
We are healing and moving forward. And it feels blessed and nice.
Verve, thank you for your kind words. At one of the meeting this week someone mentioned that if you say you are humble then you haven't been humbled enough. Your words are so generous and I really appreciate you talking to me.
I love meeting people and learning about them.
Verve, you know I understand what you are saying about how people might not talk to you for what you believe or don't believe or how you do or don't live your life. I am fortunate enough to remember what a screw up mess I was and to judge or criticize someone else would be nothing short of disgusting and absolutely not a servant of G-d.
I am so proud to be a Jew. I am more proud to be a child of G-d. And you my new friend are a child of G-d so we are sisters. Plain and simple. And we get to fight, but we stand together in times of trouble and love on each other until we have the strength to venture out and then we love on each other even more because it's our love and protection from G-d that helps us move forward in life on life's terms.
Please know that doesn't mean in MRL I don't slam or talk about people behind their back because I am just as good as the next to gossip. However, even on those people I would be there a fast as a snap of the finger to help them if G-d needed me to.
My former rabbi wanted me to say a prayer every morning about the soul you have given me is a pure one. For so long my soul cried out in pain for the sins and destruction I wreaked on people. I pray every day that I don't revert back to that person and the only way I can do it is to fill my life of love and mitzvahs so that when the day comes and we all truly learn the truth. My soul will be pure. Verve, be gentle and kind to yourself, G-d loves you. You are his most precious gift.
Hope, Thank you so much for those words. You know, on the way home from the rock concert tonight I was talking about how I used to envy someone because of the spirit she walked in and her spirituality. This woman went away to rabbinic school and came back a different person. I noticed that her warmth, compassion, and spirit of G-d was closed, tight. She was concerned more about the works of a service than carrying the message of the spirit of G-d.
You have the faith, because you are nurturing it, desiring it, wanting it. G-d is truly right there for you. My G-d loves me as much as your G-d loves you and is there to walk with. Be kind to yourself and truly begin to see how far you have come. Because you are doing absolutely awesome.
Did you ever see the movies the Karate Kids. Remember how the mentor would have the student do things that seemed so ridiculous, etc. This journey for us and so many others is about G-d teaching us lessons that we might not have been open to before. And being the loving parent that he is he kept on going until we heard him.
Now our WH's.... OH BOY...... :crosseyedcrazy: Their lessons will come in G-d's time. Not OURS.... :RollieEyes:
I don't know truly what's going on over there. It seems that was still in place last Friday, but I have no clue if it's permanent, if its temporary, etc. I just simply don't know and so I have to just be still and let it play itself out.
You and I have walked through the darkness together.... You are also my inspiration of tenacity and commitment.
Hope I have to laugh at your statement. One of the VERY FIRST lessons I learned as a secretary was to just watch and observe. You will LEARN everything and no one will be the wiser.
Unfortunately, letting go is the ONLY way.
Jewish Rock Concert is a normal concert where the singer is Jewish and sings Jewish songs.
Not much time to post, but wanted to say hi. I miss talking with you. I so want to join Smartie on the trip, but not sure if I can yet. Things are too uncertain right now.
All I could think of is Fiddler on the roof or Adam shandler singing on Saturday Night live!
I started as a secretary also. Your right sit and observe. As I always said if you want to know what is going on "ask the secretary", come to think of it, it was the administrator who had heard the rumors of H and OW at work! no surprise.
I hope you don't mind my barging in! I was checking out the "Active Topics" and was intrigued by a post beginning with "Glad you got a laugh out of dancing rabbis. All I could think of is Fiddler on the roof or Adam shandler singing on Saturday Night live!"
Re. "Jewish Rock Concert"... Neil Diamond???
Anyway... there's an MB newbie who has expressed concern about whether this site is for her, since she is Jewish. Maybe she'd like to hear from you? Her name is WhiteRussian, here's her threads:
I started as a secretary also. Your right sit and observe. As I always said if you want to know what is going on "ask the secretary", come to think of it, it was the administrator who had heard the rumors of H and OW at work! no surprise.
I have had to learn this ART. What kind of secretary were you?
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Re. "Jewish Rock Concert"... Neil Diamond???
LOL... Nope. His name was Rick Recht and back when this mess first started I listened to him all the time. His voice is very similar to Kenny Loggins and just soothes my soul.
I'm on the Jewish support line.
Update.... OS has a lacrosse game and he emailed me to tell me that WH is showing up because he wants to watch his OLD team get slaughtered. I was planning on attending, but think that isn't such a good idea because I'm in Plan B? I could go and stay out of site, but it would be a risk.
I don't believe WH knows OS is playing on the team. Advice?
So this wife took it upon herself to exercise her GODDESS power a little today.
I called WH's employment and asked to speak to payroll. I explained I was calling regarding garnishment on WH. Receptionist asked who I was and I explained I was the WIFE.
I got not only payroll, but the boss herself. I introduced myself as WH's wife, and said it was nice to meet her. She responded in kind. I explained that I was calling about the garnishment in place for my husband and asked if she had had time to send in the check. She apologized, explained that payroll handles paychecks, but she cuts the check to the state because he is the only one who has a garnishment.
I thanked her so much and expressed to her how much this helps me because I am still paying on our old house and this is helping me keep things afloat.
She was VERY friendly. And so I followed up with a note of thanks to her in the mail. Again, thanking her for her time and appreciating her helping me because she really didn't have to. I went onto explain I love my husband very much and hope that one day he realizes how much his family loves him and wants him to come home. I went on to tell her very kindly that he had three incredible children that this money helps to raise and that I hope to get the opportunity to thank her in person one day.
Oh yes.... I'm good. GODDESS POWER...
HEAD UP, CHEST OUT, SMILE ON, AND LOVE IN MY HEART...
DD I know there is no way to ever make amends for what I have done. The trust I broke with you will never be restored. You will always be my little girl. I don't expect to ever hear from you again. I am Solly responsible for what happened. There is no excuse or reason that can explain what I did. Being alone I think over and over what I did. How after I left I was to ashamed to reach out to you. I cant even imagine the pain I have caused you. Please live the life that you deserve to have. Stay close to your Mom and brothers. You have each other treasure that. I am glad that you are getting better. I know you are getting stronger. I failed as a father, head of house hold, husband, and a human being. All of which are my own doing. The words are not coming to me to say what I want. There is nothing more I can say except I am sorry fo all I have done.
That letter was beautiful and certainly sounded sincere. You might want to put a callout for Schoolbus to give you her take on it. It's her specialty.
It is good that he is making amends to his children. They NEED him, the real him. How did your daughter respond to the letter?
Queenie, I know that you still love WS and still want your marriage. At this point, he has given YOU no reason to change your course. He KNOWS there is a path home. For goodness sakes, no other BS has ever made that more clear to their WS than you have.
Keep dark and continue forward with your plan. IF WS indicates that he wants to reconcile, well then and only then, should you even begin to entertain that idea.....with GREAT caution.
Got caught up on you thread. Lots of stuff going on.
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Do I send Plan B letter to him?
Or just stay out of it?
How will he know he CAN come home.
Be still, Queenie!
WS needs to reach out first...like he did to DD, as he has a much higher mountain to climb when it comes to you.
When he does...I suggest that you ask WS to talk to Steve H. first, so that he communicate to WS (not you) what needs to happen, and then talk to Steve to give you his INFORMED opinion, and about what YOU need to be prepared to do.
In the meantime, keep working on YOU as you have been doing. You are doing great.
LOL... Nope. His name was Rick Recht and back when this mess first started I listened to him all the time. His voice is very similar to Kenny Loggins and just soothes my soul.
I read this as Kenny Rogers... and started hearing a Yiddish version of The Gambler:
"You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run...
you never count your money when you're sitting at the table, There'll be time enough for counting When the dealing's done."
LOL
ETA: Wow!!!! That's an awesome email. It brought tears to my eyes. *HUGS* You are in my prayers.
I agree totally. Darkness has been my healing grace from G-d as hard as I have fought it.
I have managed to not say ONE WORD since March 17, 08 I understand how vitally important this is to just stay out and let G-d do what G-d is going to do.
Did your daughter respond? I wonder if he wrote it knowing that she would let you read it.
Nope, she hasn't responded. I asked her that and she said no, that she needed to think about it and that I could help her with her mind. But that she didn't know what to say.
I just reaffirmed to her that he had a place to come home to.
I'm not going to tell her what to say. This is her relationship with her dad.
I honestly don't know what he would think she would do. He does know we are very close now. I just have to stay out of the wondering. But please all of you wonder for me. And keep those prayers coming. for HIM..
The email sounds very sincere. If DD has faith, she can let dad know that G-d is a G-d of redemption and she will be praying that hubby can be restored to the man of G-d that he was before, the father, and head of the family.
What I think is that affairs almost always end, and then the WS turns back into their real selves.
I'm no expert, but the email is much different than the letters I got from my WH. He was always "sorry" and then there were a lot of buts - not a good sign.
Hope you have read the 8 cow wife story on TL's thread.
"Then I will make up to you for the years That the swarming locust has eaten, The creeping locust, the stripping locust and the gnawing locust, My great army which I sent among you."
I've tried copy and paste, page translation and everything else I could think of to post Greek and Hebrew and it has always deaulted to junk and control codes. Maybe my complaining caused someone to add the ability during an upgrade and I just haven't tried since then...
I failed as a father, head of house hold, husband, and a human being. All of which are my own doing. The words are not coming to me to say what I want. There is nothing more I can say except I am sorry fo all I have done.
Love Dad
Hi Queenie, This part is very telling. Not only does he apologize to DD as a father but as a husband and a HB. Now that he is alone, he has time to think and clear his fogged brain.
These are the stories that truly give me faith that these prodigals will find their way to their true home.
I also think you are amazing to write to his job saying you are still committed to the M. You probably floored her and gave her something to think about for the day!
OK -- Queenie -- came across this email and I needed to forward it to seven people, so I'm sending to you and everyone who reads your thread.
Consentrate on this: "To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did." Consentrate on this: "When God takes something from your grasp, He's not punishing you, but merely opening your hands to receive something better." Concentrate on this: "The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."
So here it is. I do like the last sentence above.
Oh...and something good will happen to you today; something that you have been waiting to hear.
My nose was a twitchin today.....hmmmmm.....well, what an interesting progression of events. Hang in there. Pray. Keep moving forward. DO NOTHING.......
If you can get through this without doing anything, well, that alone will be the pinicle of your success and growth.
Goodness gracious I'm up and have been up since 3:30. My mind is just racing and I'm trying to center myself and just relax with G-d. Having a hard time though. For so long I have walked the journey of keeping G-ds will in my thoughts above all else and now when it's most important that chatter in my head is so loud.
I have questions about what's going on over on WH's side and it's because I always have this deep NEED to understand things.
So, just to get rid of the thoughts I'm putting them down on paper.
If anyone who reads this understands what happens in the withdrawal process I would be most grateful to know. I remember going through the withdrawals when WH left and everytime that I saw him I would get that high feeling. But then Plan A and Plan B allowed me to learn to get him out of my system where I didn't think about him every moment of every day. Because let's face it, that's what I did.
At the end of my withdrawals, I was in a place to move on and live my life without my H and worked so hard to build a life that didn't include him and possibly never would.
Anyone interested in helping me understand how at the end of the withdrawals from OW after all this time, would my H suddenly emerge and want to come home. Then again I just thought of it.... Or G-d planted it...
Because when this happened I intuitively knew what to do, go back to AA. G-d was working in my life and I sought him out. And once I sought out G-d then I was on my journey to healing.
And for WH, that's what is most important. He needs to find his way to G-d, seek him out for guidance and let G-d take him on his journey of healing. I have the urge to gently push, I'll be honest. Like mailing an AA brochure of meetings to his work. I won't of course.
What I will do is crawl back under the covers and silence my head and ask G-d how I can serve him today and be the complete woman that he designed me to be. Last night in talking about the latest development with some AA friends, it truly dawned on me how much I have changed.
Might as well do something useful, like scrubbing the toilets. There is no sense in trying to figure out what is going on in his mind or what he will do.
My ex always sent letters that he was sorry, but......... He mostly felt sorry for HIMSELF. And then it took 7 months before he asked to get back together.
As I recall, he came by my home to tell me something about the kids. And then he asked me if our marriage was really over in my mind. Of course, we were DIVORCED so I told him it was. But he kept contacting me for another 6 months until he finally gave up.
Where you point the light is what you will focus on. If you point it into the woods you will not see much, what you do see will be difficult if not impossible to understand and you will also lose sight of the path ahead of you and lose your way.
An interesting thing about walking along a path by flashlight is that it only illuminates what you need to see right now. It doesn't show you what lies ahead 100 yards or 100 miles...It lights your way one step at a time.
What's around the bend? Who knows? Do you trust God to take care of that too? Then focus on the path immediately ahead, take another step where He is leading you and don't worry so much about what is happening outside of the circle of God's light. Even if you can't see, He can and already knows what He will do to handle it.
What happens in the wilderness is not what you need to worry about. You only need to worry about your path through the wilderness.
God will be done with your husband when He is done with him...
And He'll be done with you when He is done with you...
You stand on a hill overlooking the road to what God promised. Your husband is still back in Egypt, a slave to his own ways...
Keep going forward and don't try to turn back to look for him. Remember what happened to Lot's wife? For your husband to be where you are now he has to travel where you have been and he has to run faster to catch up. But the sooner you get to where God is leading you, the sooner YOU can rest and wait while God prods him along. Even if he gets lost in the wilderness by taking his eyes off the path again, YOU will be safe because God already brought you through it.
When Israel was wandering in the wilderness they weren't alone. God didn't SEND them to the Promised Land, He LED them there. His Presence was before them by day and stood watch over them by night. Everyone could see His Glory. As long as everyone stayed fixed on Him, they couldn't get lost. But some looked at their surroundings and their circumstances and lost sight of God and the goal. An entire generation died in the wilderness because they lost their focus on the One who was leading them and chose not to trust Him though they had already seen many miracles in their lives.
Where you point the light is what you will focus on. If you point it into the woods you will not see much, what you do see will be difficult if not impossible to understand and you will also lose sight of the path ahead of you and lose your way.
An interesting thing about walking along a path by flashlight is that it only illuminates what you need to see right now. It doesn't show you what lies ahead 100 yards or 100 miles...It lights your way one step at a time.
What's around the bend? Who knows? Do you trust God to take care of that too? Then focus on the path immediately ahead, take another step where He is leading you and don't worry so much about what is happening outside of the circle of God's light. Even if you can't see, He can and already knows what He will do to handle it.
What happens in the wilderness is not what you need to worry about. You only need to worry about your path through the wilderness.
God will be done with your husband when He is done with him...
And He'll be done with you when He is done with you...
You stand on a hill overlooking the road to what God promised. Your husband is still back in Egypt, a slave to his own ways...
Keep going forward and don't try to turn back to look for him. Remember what happened to Lot's wife? For your husband to be where you are now he has to travel where you have been and he has to run faster to catch up. But the sooner you get to where God is leading you, the sooner YOU can rest and wait while God prods him along. Even if he gets lost in the wilderness by taking his eyes off the path again, YOU will be safe because God already brought you through it.
When Israel was wandering in the wilderness they weren't alone. God didn't SEND them to the Promised Land, He LED them there. His Presence was before them by day and stood watch over them by night. Everyone could see His Glory. As long as everyone stayed fixed on Him, they couldn't get lost. But some looked at their surroundings and their circumstances and lost sight of God and the goal. An entire generation died in the wilderness because they lost their focus on the One who was leading them and chose not to trust Him though they had already seen many miracles in their lives.
The Lord is with me; I'll not be afraid.
Mark
Mark, without a doubt...the best post I've read in a long time!!!
Queenie, ask yourself this question.....is this Mark speaking to you...or is this God speaking to you through Mark?????
Might as well do something useful, like scrubbing the toilets.
Silly girl, this GODDESS doesn't DO toilets at 4am....
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There is no sense in trying to figure out what is going on in his mind or what he will do.
If that isn't the smartest statement. I just needed to play with it for awhile, but I think I am over it... :crosseyedcrazy:
Kick, I have felt on many occasions that G-d has spoken to me through Mark.
And yes Mark, I trust G-d to get me through this. I think that for so long there was NOTHING, but then there has been movement and it's giving me hope and I want more. But, keep my eye on G-d and out of my head and life will be as it should.
ing to G-d to lead me on my way that he wants. NOT ME.... And the Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want...
Well school has been cancelled. I got a call at 5:45 because school was two hours late and AM kindergarten was to attend. So I dragged my rear out of bed, went down to school set up the system to call staff, and went home crawled back into bed. Then 45 minutes later I get a call that it's PM kindergarten coming and not AM....... UGH.....
I get to work to change the website that school has been cancelled. And now it's raining and the parents are NOT happy with the school district and the phone is just ringing off the hook.
YES I LOVE MY JOB..... I LOVE MY JOB.... I LOVE MY JOB.....
Use whatever you would like. The flashlight analogy I refer to I posted to Queenie a while back. If you look through her thread you might find it and if not, let me know and I'll repost it for you.
I'm the analogy king, so I have a bunch of 'em...
Comes from teaching Sunday school for so many years, I think.
Edited to add: Here's where I first posted the flashlight anaolgy I refer to above. It was November 13th of last year:
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Did you ever go camping as a kid?
My father's idea of roughing it was to rent a fishing boat that had a manual start outboard...
But I was a Boy Scout. Really. I had a green uniform and everything.
I remember walking along a path in the woods in the middle of the night. The trees seemed to swallow up the surroundings and noises, some identifiable and others more sinister by the fact that I couldn't tell what they were all around me.
But I had this really cool flashlight and when I turned it on and could see where I was headed, it wasn't so scary after all. The light was just bright enough to illuminate my way and show me where I was going. As long as that light was pointed onto the path, I knew exactly where I was headed.
But if I swung the light off to the side, and pointed it into the woods, now it was really scary. Not only couldn't I see the path I needed to stay on but I could also see all sorts of things in the darkness of the woods. Some of them were merely shadows and not anything real at all, but when you're 9 or 10 you don't reason that well and it is the UNseen that holds the most terror.
The light shining into the trees didn't cast a beam very far and the woods seemed to swallow it up within a few scant yards so that it's power seemed to be lessened some how. And when it did strike something that was alive, it caused the animal's eyes to glow, usually an eerie red that seemed to be so evil in its very nature.
But when I turned the light back onto the path, all those things dimmed into memory very quickly and I could once more see where I was going and knew that I was still on the right path. As long as I kept that light pointed where I was headed and kept my gaze fixed onto its bright circle ahead of me, I knew everything would be alright.
Haggai 1 (NIV) 5 Now this is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 6 You have planted much, but have harvested little. You eat, but never have enough. You drink, but never have your fill. You put on clothes, but are not warm. You earn wages, only to put them in a purse with holes in it."
7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways. 8 Go up into the mountains and bring down timber and build the house, so that I may take pleasure in it and be honored," says the LORD. 9 "You expected much, but see, it turned out to be little. What you brought home, I blew away. Why?" declares the LORD Almighty. "Because of my house, which remains a ruin, while each of you is busy with his own house.
When we focus on ourselves and our own circumstances or on our surroundings, our progress comes to a stop. We are afraid, unsure of where to go and what to do and become lost in our self pity. No matter what we think we can do to overcome our lot, we find that it is never enough. We think we're making progress but it is all an illusion.
When we focus on Him we know where we are headed and know that we are going down the right path. His ways first and our ways will be smooth and easy going.
Psalm 119: 105 & 106 (The Message) By your words I can see where I'm going; they throw a beam of light on my dark path. I've committed myself and I'll never turn back from living by your righteous order.
As long as we remain focused on His light and follow where He leads us, we can know that we are safe and that nothing can harm us, because we can see the light of God's words shining before us, showing us where we need to go.
It's like, we know that if/when we are feeling low we just come to Q's thread and Mark is going to post something awesome and godly that will fill our hearts with hope and faith.
HI Queenie, Honey, I am praying for you, I love you...
For those of you who are suffering the abandonment of infidelity or other marital loss, I also found great comfort in Isaiah 54, I think it was.....you may have been abandoned by the (husband) of your youth but G-d will be your (husband) and will be there for you...
While my Bible uses the word husband, I know there are men who endure this stuff....so I suppose God could be there to provide the love and emotional support of a wife for those people. Some very wonderful men (like Mark) have BTDT.
While it's nice to have a fan club, it's the message...
NOT the messenger...
All I can do is mess it up. If it applies to someone, helps them in some way or gives them encouragement, it's what was said and where is came from that matters and not the one doing the telling.
In other words, I'm not important. ^^^HE is what matters.
If I wasn't here, He would still find someone to say it. In fact, He has been saying it for a long time...
Ah but Mark, doesn't the messenger have to be humble enough to get the message across understanding that it's NOT HIM who is delivering it but delivering the truth?
This thread has become my journey in life through this ordeal.
I need to put the email from WH to our DD on here along with schoolbus's interpretation as part of the journey. WHEREVER the story ends, I was given the most amazing blessing of healing on MY journey with what she said. Thank you so much SB.... I hope one day you feel the gratitude I have for what you gave me in this...
Thank you....
DD, I know there is no way to ever make amends for what I have done. The trust I broke with you will never be restored. You will always be my little girl. I don't expect to ever hear from you again. I am Solly responsible for what happened. There is no excuse or reason that can explain what I did. Being alone I think over and over what I did. How after I left I was to ashamed to reach out to you. I cant even imagine the pain I have caused you. Please live the life that you deserve to have. Stay close to your Mom and brothers. You have each other treasure that. I am glad that you are getting better. I know you are getting stronger. I failed as a father, head of house hold, husband, and a human being. All of which are my own doing. The words are not coming to me to say what I want. There is nothing more I can say except I am sorry fo all I have done.
Love, Dad
Probably one of the more honest apology letters you could get. There is nothing there to point to that comes across as dishonest or blaming.
Here is the undercurrent: Please tell mom that I'm sorry. He says it as the third thing - that's where your name comes in. The opening concept focuses directly on the apology. Second comes a change to his talking about how he came to be thinking about this whole thing - being alone, thinking it over, and reflecting on what has happened and why. THIRD - is you and the family - and when we look at things it is often the third idea or third thing on a list that brings the heart of the matter. In this case it would be the mention of his wish that she stay close to you - a veiled message with undercurrents to let you know the content of his heart. Additional supporting evidence of this is that this comes in the "sandwich" paragraph - the middle section after he presents his opening and square in the body of the letter where it looks to the casual reader as an embedded thought and not the main idea. Most folks consider the opening as the main idea, but often this can be embedded when being presented psychologically as an undercurrent without the writer even knowing it.
If you don't believe me, note the four things he listed where he failed! Father, head of household, HUSBAND, human being. Interesting, isn't it?
He couldn't avoid it. Watch TV shows, and see if the third thing they mention is the solution to the crime, the third picture they pick the criminal, the third place they search where they rescue the victim.....just watch for that pattern. Interesting piece of human nature. Occurs more often than you might think. And hard to beat us when we're watching for it.
He is sincere. Also, he wrote this when he was VERY DOWN and feeling very alone. He needs her to respond, and is ready for her to offer some hope that he could see forgiveness in this life. I don't know what situation your daughter is in, but if she were in the mood to respond with at least, "Thank you for the apology, I know that was hard for you to do. I'm not ready to talk yet. If I get to that point in my life, I will let you know." It might at least put him on the path toward his own healing.SB
We dont know what G-d has planned, but I do know that he blessed me last night with this. I was somehow released from so much pain and guilt over my part in the M and felt like I am truly at piece with the outcome that G-d has planned. I love my H so very very much. May it be G-ds will that shines through our lives and we reach our potentials as the man and woman he designed for us both, together or apart. Y'l'heratzon - May it be so.....
Watch TV shows, and see if the third thing they mention is the solution to the crime, the third picture they pick the criminal, the third place they search where they rescue the victim.....just watch for that pattern. Interesting piece of human nature. Occurs more often than you might think.
I have always thought this was interesting about the number 3.
Way back when in a high school psychology class our teacher asked all the kids to silently pick a number between 1 and 4.
Then he asked, “Why did you all pick the number 3?”
And he was right. Virtually every kid in the class had picked the number 3.
Nice stuff as always SB.
Look at all the three’s:
We perceive our universe to have three spatial dimensions. 3 primary cellular energy molecules: AMP~ ADP~ ATP DNA has a triplet codon system. The primary colors: red, green and blue Three basic Earth divisions: Core- Mantle- Crust. The Holy Trinity The Three Wise Men The three Patriarchs The three pilgrim festivals, Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot The three martyrs, Faith, Hope, and Charity Heaven, Hell and Purgatory Three holy cities in Islam: Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem In Buddhism The Triple Gem In Taoism, the Three Pure Ones There are three types of galaxies: ellipticals, spirals and irregulars. Isaac Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics Hitting the trifecta at the track. The Three Witches in Macbeth Mark Twain's 3 lies: Lies~ Damned Lies~ Statistics
Bunches more.
And don't forget it was the number of the count for the Holy Hand Grenade.
Oh yeah, The Three Tenors, The Three Amigos and the Three Musketeers. Well there were really four Musketeers at the end so maybe they don’t count.
But the praise should be for the message and the One who sent it and not the messenger...
Oh the praise is there. Something happened inside of me last night. I reached for G-d in a way that I have NEVER and I truly understand your point.
Praise be to G-d.....
Queenie,
What happened last night to you is what I keep describing as complete surrender to God and His will. You have had an incredible journey and now is the TIME for you to expierence God's complete GLORY in your life.
You have a very powerful testimony....keep sharing what God is doing in your life.
Relax and let God take the reins.
"Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up." James 4:10
I was just reading my Plan B letter, he has met ONE of the CONDITIONS... Will see if he MEETS the OTHER.
My dearest H,
I want to be your wife, in every sense of the word. I want those intimacies that we always dreamed about, to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, as well as share the joy of raising a family with you. Each day that goes by it becomes excruciatingly painful to watch what is happening to our life and marriage, therefore, it is with the saddest of hearts that I must write you this letter. 24 years ago we made a vow to G-d and 10 years ago repeated our vows under the Chupah when we truly became as one. We were so much in love on those two days. The first time when we were young and full of hope and promise and the second time when we were full of making a complete lifetime commitment. We had been through so much and recommitted our love to each other, only it was stronger and deeper because we knew what we were capable of being together no matter what adversity we faced. You and I together faced whatever came our way together and succeeded because we are meant to be together as husband and wife.
I’ve worked particularly hard these past couple of months to humble myself before G-d and ask him to create me into the wife, mother, and woman he always envisioned for me. People can change if they are willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are and what they have done. I did that and I’m proud of the person I have become and continue to become because G-d is guiding me.
G-d has instilled in me that we can have a brand new, loving, and completely fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and commitment we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that became the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our children’s. To have a new incredible marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams is within our reach. The kind of marriage we both committed to when we said “I do” each time. I’m not naive; I know there’s been a lot of damage done. It won’t be easy but it can be done. I’ve had the good fortune in the last couple of months to meet many people who have been able to do it.
I’ve suffered tremendous pain from learning about your relationship with OW, dealing with our marriage falling apart and your decision to leave our home. I never once stopped loving you and I have not forgotten what a wonderful man you are. I know you better than anyone else, and I believe in you completely. It is my love and faith in G-d that has given me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain has become too much to bear.
In order to PRESERVE the LOVE that I have left for you, I've come to the decision to no longer have any contact with you at all UNTIL you end your relationship with OW and give us another chance. I will not talk to you or see you. Contact IM in order to reach me for EMERGENCIES ONLY. I believe that we can work out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what G-d envisioned for us all along. The depth of love and commitment to our marriage is something that I have come to appreciate as having always being there and is G-d given as your covenant wife. I am willing to do whatever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.
Remember the day that we were in class together and you worked with me to bring down all my walls and you realized how much I truly loved you and had for our whole life. Tap into that my darling, because not only did it always exist, but continues to grow even during this difficult time.
11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You; Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them; Let those also who love Your name Be joyful in You. 12 For You, O LORD, will bless the righteous; With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
All in all I seem to be doing pretty good with the stuff that has transpired. I'm trying to keep my emotions in check and not get too hyped or too down, just trust G-d.
But I was on WH's facebook account tonight and having that number three notion in my mind, I was interested to see that the third favorite movie he listed as his favorite was the very movie that we went out on our first date to. :MrEEk: Yes, Alien...
I went to services tonight and made an appt to talk to our rabbi tomorrow morning before services and just see if there are other stuff I can do for my spiritual growth and awareness when looking for signs from G-d.
Try to let it be for a while and keep working on YOU. He might never be ready to come home and if he is, you might not be willing to accept what he has become, or even what he was. YOU have changed in all of this and what he once was is no longer what you will need. If you just settle for him being home nothing will be different than it was before and therefor nothing will prevent the same thing from happening again if the opportunity arises.
While I was very elated to read of WS's email to DD, I was even more glad to read Mark's post above.
I, too, was intending to extend those same words of CAUTION to you!
You have done a whole lot of heavy lifting and have become a new creature. WH has NOT,,,,atleast not yet. And there are no guarantees that he WILL. Yes, his email seems to be a fine start and indication of POTENTIAL for him to do so in the future.
Wait for the Actions.
Proceed with Caution.
Keep focused on Queenie!!
Hope you know that I say this out of the most respect, admiration and love!!
Try to let it be for a while and keep working on YOU. He might never be ready to come home and if he is, you might not be willing to accept what he has become, or even what he was. YOU have changed in all of this and what he once was is no longer what you will need. If you just settle for him being home nothing will be different than it was before and therefor nothing will prevent the same thing from happening again if the opportunity arises.
I actually understand what you mean. I really do. I KNOW I am no longer the person he walked out on. I couldn't be, not and live in my relationship with G-d.
How funny that you are using the word settle. When we were married and he was completely in love with me or whatever it was, I was so unhappy and for years thought that I just settled for him. And then it was gone and like the Jews, I just wanted to go back to the known, even though I was so unhappy and wanted out.
I know I have to fight the desire to go back. I'd obviously be lying if I said I wasn't. My actions speak for themselves, where WH's husband speak for himself. He has done NOTHING to come back. He lives in his world of reality and whatever. For me to try and figure it out isn't living in G-ds will for me.
I just wish G-d will give me the answer on how to not love him so much or help me put the love away for him somewhere where it isn't a constant reminder in my heart and soul. I meant what i said, I prepared to not have him in my life as my husband as much as that would STILL hurt after all this time. I just don't want him as my enemy. I pray for the opportunity to just have a relationship where the absolute genuine concern for each other is present and we somehow manage to work together to finish raising our last child.
Bugs, you have my complete appreciation and openness to have you keep me on the straight and narrow and talk openly about what your concerns are. We both have a kinship in that we both loved our husband in a very similar way and they are similar is that maybe they simply don't have what it takes to be recovered. I am working towards complete acceptance of this and just walking in FAITH and TRUST that I will be healed and it will just be an experiences of strength and hope for me as I move into my next journey in life.
I am still working on me. The OLD me would have moved heaven and earth to be near him or fix this. I'll admit it's a struggle, and I'm tempted, but I'm human. I'm also Queenie and have learned to live without WH and still be happy and content in life. I have much to learn about myself and the first thing I have recently discovered is that I like her and I like just spending time with her and G-d
So, off to morning services I go with a meeting before hand to speak with the rabbi on how to cultivate a deeper spiritual walk with G-d and to truly know when I am hearing his will for me.
Thanks Mark and Bugs, please keep me on the right side of healing. I don't want to EVER go back to the world of darkness.
I am still working on me. The OLD me would have moved heaven and earth to be near him or fix this. I'll admit it's a struggle, and I'm tempted, but I'm human. I'm also Queenie and have learned to live without WH and still be happy and content in life. I have much to learn about myself and the first thing I have recently discovered is that I like her and I like just spending time with her and G-d
Keep your thoughts focused on YOU, Queenie.... so as to leave little room for 'tempting thoughts'..... because the distance can be very short sometimes between thoughts and ACTION...
I've been gone for a while but just wanted to drop in and tell you what a revelation it is to read your thread. I've only been on MB boards off and on since September and you have come SUCH a long way...I know that there was a lot of work on your part before then but it is clear to me, just reading, that you have crossed a bridge and are growing stronger weekly. Be proud of yourself, give yourself a hug. It is a privilege to follow your journey.
Hi Miriam, I hope all is well with you. I have noticed you have been gone and have missed you. I'll have to check and see if you gave us an update.
Ah, MY journey continues... Yes, the possible hope of recovery DOES NOT. I should say I should be surprised, but I'm not.
schoolbus gave me an incredible email to send to WH, which I did. He responded within ten minutes or so, but right before I had read his response, I learned that crack ho was at the game with WH. I intuitively knew what that meant. I'm STILL dealing with the wayward. And true to form, was his selfish, self-centered, entitled crap that just makes me want to
Here's the email I sent that schoolbus suggested I sent him...
Dear WH, DD shared your letter of apology with me. I hope you don't mind that I read it. That apology means a lot to me, and I hope she will be able to talk with you. I can see you have come a long way since you left here. I have made changes, too, and know that I have become a better person for making them.
The letter was beautifully written, and showed me that the man I loved, and still love, remains within you. Almost a year ago I wrote you a letter describing the pathway home. That letter was about believing in our love, that we can recover our marriage, and that I can forgive you.
I still believe.
Love, Queenie
Here is his response.....
The letter was for DD. Right now I am very very angry. At the " team " that I used to play on. Now I understand why I dont play with them anymore. I hope OS enjoys himself. He looked good out there. As for the rest we would have to see. Yes alot has changed on both sides. Not enough but that is OK.
So, let's just put aside my sadness that WH is clearly a strong factor and that crack is still in the picture in some capacity. What has Queenie learned because it's about me.
WH has NO CLUE that he is rapidly losing the an amazing woman who would not only give him time to get his act together, but grew in love for him and instead of blaming him looked at her behavior and made changes in herself. His response absolutely disgusts me because it reinforces what monsters the WH is all about and quite frankly I really see where I deserve better than that. I got my answer about the D. Clearly it would be a mindfield to try and reason with this monster and so I am delaying the D for a little longer.
I'm not about to go into decifering what his response means because it's lased with absolute poison and I'm NEVER going back to HIS poison.
He could have said, thank you, I'm not ready anything that would have shown a modicum of respect for me. But NO... and I'm glad that I have healed enough to know that I don't want that in my life. Should my H find his way through the monster and want to come home, what I know is I extended the olive branch and he shot it down. I tried and he refused.
I got my release for a new life by this. I had to try, I had to. But like this new Queenie has learned. I have no control over people, places and things. Oh sure, I can go to the place that says, I should have waited until OS got home and then I would have known that crack ho was in the picture and wouldn't have sent the email, but I would have been left wondering what's going on and that isn't good for QUEENIE...
I'm sure I'll hit a bottom and cry over it, but I like myself enough these days to really understand, he is the LOSER, not me. I have the children, the respect of my friends, the support of so many people. He, why he has crack ho.....
Keep your thoughts focused on YOU, Queenie.... so as to leave little room for 'tempting thoughts'..... because the distance can be very short sometimes between thoughts and ACTION...
Well darn Luna, I should have seen this earlier..
But then again, no.... I'm glad I did what I did. It didn't turn out how I hoped, and I didn't get what I wanted, but I got my self-respect because I have prayed for the chance... He has no doubt how I feel and that was so important to me. I took it and he threw it away. Now it's up to him... NOT ME....
What I am so pissed about is that he is too STUPID to see that instead of it being an EITHER OR.... if he had a relationship with HIS children, he could have been playing WITH his SON.... HIS ACTIONS created this... and all he SEES is HIM feeling sorry for himself....
Queenie I appear to have deeply offended some people on this site. I have posted here on and off for a while, and, having been in a committed, albeit common-law, marriage for almost 12 years, I came here in a very distraught state. To you, I apologize if it appears I have misled you - as you're post was heartfelt, and was a much needed salve on my heart. Again - unlike what some seem to feel, I did not intentionally lie about my relationship - we referred to eachother as husband and wife as that is how we viewed our commitment. I hope YOUR heart heals in beautiful ways. Chryss
I'm so sorry. I can relate because when my WH responded to my first letter about the business I had hope momentarily - and then crashed when it became clear he was all about using the financial distress of the business to leverage me into a quick divorce. Boy did that hurt.
But here's the thing. It helped me because I got it that things weren't changing. I understood that even the complete collapse of my livelihood - as a result of his affair - would not snap him out of it. He felt bad about the business, but it was still about him and his A.
So, I got it. And you've got it. You said it in your post - it helps because it opens up more distance - and you're also right, you don't need his poison. You've got a heck of a lot more going for you than that cr*p. I know the "opening more distance" part is also tough, because you're moving toward letting go and you didn't want to - but you're also right, you can't control him. He's still a wayward.
So, let yourself crash, then pick back up and remember there are folks here who will help.
Hugs.
- M
PS - I'll post an update in the next couple of days. Not much to tell, really. But I'm keepin' on, and that's important.
Chryss, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, so I guess I need to go back and see what all the fuss is about. My journey has been about acceptance. I am a child of G-d, one who is learning to love herself and be accountable to who she is becoming. I have no right to judge or condemn anyone in life because I have made so many many mistakes. Whatever input you have given my I truly knows has been given to me in nothing but care, concern and warmth. Thank you. I welcome your input and wish you only the best. If what I said brought you some peace. Then I am truly grateful because we are hurt people on here only learning how to live again.
"As for the rest we would have to see. Yes alot has changed on both sides. Not enough but that is OK."
Queenie - what do you think the above means?
Believer, I have NO CLUE.... I think this is wayward crap that he is still cake walking. And it's evident because he was around crack ho today. I told him there was a path home and we says we would have to see.
I remember the last conversation that we had last year before he quit his job and he told me in almost a threatening manner, that he likes who he has become and that he won't EVER go back to that person who was so neglected, etc.
I have NO idea what the not enough but that is OK. And it's interesting how he capitalizes that.
So, if I were to guess. He's telling me basically that they aren't living together, but that she is still in the picture and he can't meet the conditions of Plan B which is no contact.
Thanks for your words. I seem to really be doing better than I would have thought. I kept praying for a chance. I got that chance today and HE pushed it away. He is still completely wayward. I don't like this person AT ALL.
I reached out to him and he PUSHED it away. His loss. Of course it still makes me sad, but I saw that this man is someone I DON'T WANT. He's angry, he's selfish, and he's well not so intelligent. He gets to be a grandfather to a crack ho's grandkids.
Instead of realizing that he could come home, make amends with his kids and be on the SAME TEAM TOGETHER, he gets angry and feels sorry for himself. That gets old. I'm tiring of his stuff.
I think it finally hit me, that there is NO RUSH for the D. Because there is a GARNISHMENT in place and it's his job that's doing the delaying NOT HIM. I need the spousal support, so why in goodness gracious would I challenge that.
I honestly don't know what I am going to do. For all the big talk I gave, I was willing to reach out and take his crumbs. I'll admit it... I was, obviously by what I did. And you know what, I'm ok with what I did.
The NEXT move is HIS.... He knows there is a path home. Now the bar is raised.. by ME....
Queenie I am sorry for the last email. I was very mad at xxx and xxx for the way it was handled. I am glad you and DD have gotten so close. Again I apologise for my tone in that message.
WH
Thoughts? I have my OWN thoughts, but I want to hear YOURS..... I do want to make note of ONE thing. In the first response, he just states whatever his crap is. In this one, he calls me by the spelled out version of my real name which I told him I preferred and give his name at the end. Silly wayward....
He really has NO IDEA who I have become.
QUEENIE - MB WARRIOR GODDESS. CHEST OUT, HEAD UP, SMILE ON, AND LOVE IN MY HEART FOR QUEENIE.....
Ok, one more interesting thing. He didn't write a NEW email, he replied from the original email where he responded to my email. So yes, chances are reasonable that he reread what I wrote him and in the great words of Amway, NOW HE KNOWS....
So, let's put into practice what we KNOW about waywards...
I met a need for him today. One that quite honestly ONLY I can meet. His FAMILY is a HUGE need. But he was hurt and angry and crack ho was around to meet the whatever need she meets.
I did NOT respond to his email what so ever, not was I going to, and low and behold a few hours later I hear from him again. probably he is alone and wanting something MORE from me. He HAS NOT had this NEED met for almost a year.
I have my integrity because I was clear about crack ho not being in the picture. I sent the email BEFORE I knew she had been sniffing around. And so now I am DARK again, and we KNOW how DARK Queenie can be. I think we would agree I don't answer him.
What I have LEARNED, he still somewhere deep wants that NEED met. But GUESS WHAT... I'm back in Plan B. I'm not MEETING his NEEDS because crack ho was around and he STINKS again.
I think this is very USEFUL.... Why, because I'm not in the A, and I KNOW what's happening. He DOESN'T.....
Now it's almost comical because he is doing EXACTLY as a wayward does.
I'm in personal recovery, I don't need the fixes..... I have learned to get my OWN needs met so I don't need him for anything. I live a life WITHOUT him...
And one that's not perfect, but doable especially cause it SMELLS like flowers.
His first email, like you said, is all about his crap...
He's so glad he doesn't play with that team any more...WTF?
It's every body's fault but his. It's somebody's fault, but never his. He's the victim in all of this...Life is just so unfair...I think I'll go eat some worms...
His second email is about knowing what he should do but is not willing to do. He KNOWS he's an idiot but wants to remain one. He's not any where near ready to let go of his addiction to Crack Ho...
I just got home from the vacation cabin. I went out ice-fishing this morning and took a nap this afternoon and drank a 20 ounce cup of good coffee on the way home, so sat down to check in here before bed.
Imagine what this would have done to you a year ago, Queenie. Isn't God awesome in the way He tests us to build up our strength for when it really counts?
You know my story about the rock, don't you?
A man is walking along a path and comes to a giant rock in the way. Suddenly he hears God's voice, whispering to him as if he were Abraham...
"Push it," is all he hears. Convinced that God has spoken directly to him he begins to struggle with the rock in his way. He leans into it wit all his might...
And it doesn't move a bit.
So he turns his back to the rock, pushes hard with his legs and grunts with his efforts...
And the rock remains right where it was.
He finds a large tree branch and thinking that if he just had enough leverage he could move the massive boulder. He wedges the branch under the stone, uses a downed tree for a fulcrum and pits all his weight on the other end of the branch only to hear the resounding crack and then a thud as the branch snaps like a toothpick and he falls in a heap.
He rolls onto his back, looks toward heaven and cries out "Lord! I can't do it; help me..."
A whisper comes through the trees... "Be gone!." and the rock vanishes from sight.
The man lays there panting from his exertion and says to God, "Why did you let me struggle like that when all you had to do was to speak to the rock and it would be gone?"
Again God speaks to him and says...
"The rock was not in MY way, but yours. It was something YOU had to work to overcome. I never told you to move the rock, only to push it and now that you have, you are stronger than when you began. Once you realized you were helpless without me and gave it to me to take care of, I was able to move the stone with but a word, but as long as you were struggling in your own strength, you were in the way..."
"The rock was not in MY way, but yours. It was something YOU had to work to overcome. I never told you to move the rock, only to push it and now that you have, you are stronger than when you began. Once you realized you were helpless without me and gave it to me to take care of, I was able to move the stone with but a word, but as long as you were struggling in your own strength, you were in the way..."
Queenie I had posted on here over the weekend about going into Plan B, and your response was the first I received and was so full of compassion, concern and love that I wanted to stop in to write a note. My relationship was almost 12 years - and we referred to eachother as husband and wife. We were not "legally" married, however the pain is still unbearable. I have now been labelled a liar by some on this board for supposedly "intentionally misleading" that we were married. Honestly, for how incredibly vulnerable I am right now, I did not sleep last night because of it. If your very appreciated support was contingent upon my being "legally" married, I apologize. Regardless, you truly did help me, and I thank you. Chryss
My support was about your PAIN. Not your status, unless you were a wayward misleading us.
If there is more I can do for you I will.
Remember that many of us are very hurt people on here. Including yourself, and we react to things in ways we might not necessarily ordinarily. I don't always agree with what is said, nor do I engage all conversations because we had our beliefs before this and we still do.
This place for me is about learning how to heel, learning ways to have a healthy relationship and helping other people.
Be good to yourself....
Like they say in AA, take what you can and leave the rest. Be in touch when you can.
I just got home from the vacation cabin. I went out ice-fishing this morning and took a nap this afternoon and drank a 20 ounce cup of good coffee on the way home, so sat down to check in here before bed.
How did the fishing go?
Quote
Imagine what this would have done to you a year ago, Queenie. Isn't God awesome in the way He tests us to build up our strength for when it really counts?
A year ago I was fighting going into Plan B, today I'm grateful for the tool of Plan B and protecting myself. What G-d has done with me is for sure a miracle. I have my strength because I have G-d, working in my life today.
So DD and I had a conversation and this is what she sent her dad...
Your my father and no matter what happens no events can really change that. It means a lot to have you write this really lovely letter of apology. It really touched my heart. I might not be ready to forgive you now, but hopefully I can in the future. I hope you are not so alone you think its time to leave this earth because G*d doesn't want you to. You need to get help dad you need it. Leave OW and mom behind sole search for who you are. You need to find you, you lost your self on this road that lead you to evil. Now find a new path that will lead you back to happiness. I'm asking as your daughter to find help, I pray ever night that your okay and worry if this is the day that I get a phone call. Or is he Drinking or using. Your my father and leaving this world right now isn't solving any problems. I hope we can mend our relationship I still hope you will walk me down aisle when I get married. I'm your little girl your only one. So I'm reaching to you in your time of need, Find help and better your self. I don't care if you go back to mom or not you need to find what makes you happy. and being where you are now I know doesn't do that. So please get the help you need. I need you to be my father again we all do. Show us the man that you once were. I know he is still in you deep down. Grandma and Papa would be so angry with and Aunt D is so hurt that you havent called. If you ever thought you werent loved you were wrong cause when you left life itself stop working. I love you dad and as your daughter please find help
As of this afternoon she hadn't heard back from him. I told her that WH had shown up at the lacrosse game with crack ho. DD feels used and is upset that she played into his hand.
I'm watching you have fun with her. I think it's good for you.
What I NEED to do is get back into DARK.. What I want to do is respond to the email... :twobyfour: :twobyfour: gonna get that thought right out of my head.
Can you believe I was even thinking of going into Plan A again for awhile.... NOOOOOOOOOOO :twobyfour: RIGHT?
I'm watching you have fun with her. I think it's good for you.
What I NEED to do is get back into DARK.. What I want to do is respond to the email... :twobyfour: :twobyfour: gonna get that thought right out of my head.
Can you believe I was even thinking of going into Plan A again for awhile.... NOOOOOOOOOOO :twobyfour: RIGHT?
I think I shared with you awhile back that once I finally listened to God and figured out that there was nothing, and I mean nothing, I could do to change my WW, I could go no further.
So, I COMPLETELY gave it to Him. God will allow us to keep taking it away from Him and try to fix it ourselves. God is very patient, because He knows that sooner or later, we will FINIALLY realize that only He can do it.
Please Queenie, realize that this is ONLY about you and God. You are the only one that matters at this moment. Take a quick glance back where you came from.....Thank God for all He has done for you!
Now, for the hope you need to keep going....if God has done all this for you trying to get you to walk with Him.....just trust Him to do the same for your WH........RELAX...BE PATIENT....TRUST GOD.....K?
Now, for the hope you need to keep going....if God has done all this for you trying to get you to walk with Him.....just trust Him to do the same for your WH........RELAX...BE PATIENT....TRUST GOD.....K?
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
thanks for keeping me on the right side of G-d. It's where I belong and NO WHERE ELSE...
You got it.. I can't decide what filling to put in. Traditional is prune, apricot or poppy seed. I love poppy seed, but don't have any.. Might just have to check out the cabinet and see what jelly is around.
Well, silly me, baking cookies while I am cooking chicken for the boys. Such garlic in the dish is overwhelming the cookies.
I made them. They actually look ok. There is an art to them and let me tell you what they could look like is comical.
I think I used blackberry jam which was in the fridge. I'll get poppy seed for sure this weekend.
I just realized that this Saturday will be 6 years since my birthday when H was withholding sex again from me for almost 15 months and I was so driven to craziness I contemplated suicide. I was so scared I ended up on the couch of a therapist which ultimately led to the destruction of my M.
I realized tonight, I LIKE my life. I almost am GLAD I don't have to answer to anyone. I pretty much come and go as I please and I like that. Hmmm. Maybe I am NOT so ready for him to come home.... I want to play and have fun.
Queenie and JT, I hope we can meet up end of the week. I am getting real excited about possibly meeting people. Of course I am silly enough to be getting excited about flying so far LOL
Absolutely-maybe we can meet in Bellevue and drive to Seattle together for an MB " reunion" of sorts. (Not sure what to call it, since we have "met" but haven't "met". )
I realized tonight, I LIKE my life. I almost am GLAD I don't have to answer to anyone. I pretty much come and go as I please and I like that. Hmmm. Maybe I am NOT so ready for him to come home....
Dropping by for support....don't need much advice!
I would agree, WS is showing some cracks... but until OP is totally out of the picture and WS decides he needs and will get help.... gotta stay DARK and FAR AWAY from him!
I answered this origianlly, but the answer was really incomplete, so I deleted it and will let Queenie give the full answer if she chooses to do so. Purim is really celebrated twice...
Queenie,
Remember that Esther didn't know what was going to happen. In fact her name is related to the word for hidden. And the book that is read, Megillat Esther, contains a form of the word megaleh, which means "to reveal." So the story is really one of the revealing of things hidden.
When Esther's turn before the king came along, she asked for nothing, that is, none of the usual cosmetics or other things designed to enhance her real beauty. She turned down the riches and pleasures of the world to continue to work on what really mattered, her spiritual growth and a relationship with God.
Esther had no way of knowing that she would become Queen of the empire or that she would someday be in a position where she could save her people. All she knew was that her relationship with the KING of the Universe was most important. But God knew…
When the time came for her to act, Esther was ready because she had focused on what was important and right. It was only after the fact that it was revealed to all what her role was in saving her people.
And when her own life was in danger, and that of her people, she fasted to get even closer to God. She gave up the physical for the spiritual and by doing so became an inspiration even today.
Focus on what is most important, Queenie. Stay focused on God and let Him set the stage for when it is time for you to act.
Focus on what is most important, Queenie. Stay focused on God and let Him set the stage for when it is time for you to act.
I hear ya Mark, I hear ya and that's what I have been doing.
I took a few days away to heal a little deeper.
My cookies came out amazing, they were light brown, could have used a little more jam in the middle, but the shapes were nice. Not too many looking female parts at all. :RollieEyes:
My YS made varsity tonight on lacrosse. Woohoo... Even though he said it was NO BIG deal, I knew otherwise. He made it in one year where it took OS three years. I know that has to be working on his ego. My OS is starting his new job next week and it looks like he might even be promoted to asst. mgr. I know that must feel good to him. My daughter... ah... she just is living life and plugging along the way.
Nothing from WH. I would be lying if I hadn't hoped a little, but you know. I REALLY dont' LIKE this person at all and give it a day and I'm used to Plan B and pushing thoughts of him out of my head. I'm happier that way.
The reading of the megillah is Friday night. I have to admit, I only fast on Yom Kippur. This is actually one of the happiest holidays of the Jewish calendar. I have to read the prayer that we are to say on Friday night, very serious and very humbly.
So, life goes on.... ing to G-d to show me the path... Because it's just safer, better, more loving and kinder that way...
Well, WH confirmed to DD that crack ho is gone and he won't be in touch because it's her computer and she is coming to GET HER CRAP FINALLY. He said that the rest is up to G-d. I imagine he meant coming home.
He told her that drinking and using wasn't an option nor was suicide. He said he would look into help if he could afford it.
He told her that if he wasn't in touch with her for awhile, to not worry. He loved her and missed her.
So, what is happening for me - NOTHING. It's complete. He knows there is a path home, he knows I love him, but now the work for him begins. He has no children, no computer, no wife, no lacrosse and only himself and his job oh and his EGO.
It's the strangest thing. I have NO NEED, DESIRE or anything to get involved, fix or interfere. He is with G-d and that's all that matters.
My prayers are with him as he hopefully finds his journey with G-d and finds the happiness he so DESPERATELY is seeking. I love him so much. Please pray for him...
Queenie, checking in on your sitch. Hang tight and tighter to your faith. I feel that the ice in your WH veins is starting to thaw. Hope first that WH gets the help he needs and then takes that flashlight and follows that small beam of light little by little to find his way home.
I had a somewhat meltdown tonight and called JT, thank you JT for showing me the path to the psalm that is right for me tonight.
DD has been emailing WH back and forth tonight. So here's where we are at.
She asked him why the change of heart, his response was which change of heart. She emailed back - crack ho.
His response...
DD That was the biggest mistake I have ever made in my life! I can never make up for what I did. But I cant live the mistake either.I dont know if you will understand that but I hope you can.
Love Dad
DD's response
Well it just concerns me that your not being truthful. I mean from what OS told mom was that she was with you over the weekend. and I'm just concerned that I don't want to get hurt again. If your really serious about getting your life back on track and doing what is best for you then I will be there for you. But if your just pulling my chain and she isn't out of your life then I'm not going to be to happy about. Your my father and I will always love you but right now you need help with whatever demons you have in your closet. Mom says AA might be a place for you to start I know it helped her. Let me know how things are going and what your going to do. I love you dad but don't disappoint me again. I can only do so much for you with the boys but I wont go to bat for you if the facts aren't true.
So I'm left with so much emotion, and I'll admit my faith took a dip tonight, but I prayed and called JT and she helped me work through just giving my love to G-d and just leave it alone.
I have this urge to get him to see how I'm different, but that's the OLD ME. So like JT reminded me about Abraham, I have to walk in FAITH and TRUST and do what I KNOW I need to do. Give WH to G-d and give the love I cherish and hold for my H to G-d and let him take care of him.
A man's pride will bring him low, But a humble spirit will obtain honor.
I love you G-d. I for my H that your will can work in his life and that your will continues to work in my life and I keep becoming the woman you always envisioned for me.
G-d you have worked so hard in me these past two years, I for the strength to remember the lessons and keep them dear to my heart so that our hard work was for naught.
Please take care of my H and know how deeply I love him and hope that it's your will to reunite us as man and wife.
G-d will make a way, Where there seems to be no way He works in ways we cannot see He will make a way for me He will be my guide Hold me closely to His side With love and strength for each new day He will make a way, He will make a way.
By a roadway in the wilderness, He'll lead me And rivers in the desert will I see Heaven and earth will fade But His Word will still remain He will do something new today.
G-d will make a way, Where there seems to be no way He works in ways we cannot see He will make a way for me He will be my guide Hold me closely to His side With love and strength for each new day He will make a way, He will make a way.
If you keep dealing with him and his stuff before he has solved his own problems you will have nothing to give if he does come around. You are raising your expectations instead of your standards.
In fact you are lowering your standards in order to raise your expectations.
Look at this pattern...
You hear from him indirectly.
You get your hopes up.
You examine what is happening.
You remember what has already happened.
You begin to realize that he isn't ready yet.
You begin to realize he might never be ready.
Your hopes crash.
Your faith is shaken.
You fall apart.
You pull it together...
And go on.
Until the next drama you get caught up in...
When David decided to bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem he called a meeting. He asked the opinions of all the leaders of the nation. They formulated a plan to load the Ark onto a cart and haul it to the city.
But God had already given them instructions on moving the Ark. They did after all, carry it with them for 40 years of wandering in the wilderness. Those directions were very specific right down to the kind of wood to use for the poles that were to be run through the rings on the sides. Even the process for selecting who would carry it was known to them.
But they were all in a hurry. Doing it the way God wanted them to would take time. They would have to find the right kind of wood, make the poles, find the Levites, wait for them to purify themselves...
It would just take so much longer than what they had the patience for. David had just conquered Jerusalem and made it his capitol. This celebration could solidify the nation and ensure David's family as leaders forever. The time to strike was now and waiting for God would cause them to lose the advantage...
What were they thinking?
It cost a man his life!
List all the reasons you want to hurry this up. Write down all the ideas you have as to why just letting God deal with him isn't good enough. Explain why you keep getting involved in the drama before He is done with WH...
Then read Joshua 1:5, Joshua 1:9, Jer 29:11, Psalm 5:11-12, Psalm 125:1-2, Psalm 127:1, Psalm 130:5-7...
Need more?
What plans will you come up to add to God's plan?
Or what about God's plan is not right for you?
God will work on your WH, Queenie. And He is trying to work on you. He isn't done with either of you yet...
OK. Putting the :twobyfour: back in the box now...
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Psalm 139 (New Living Translation) 1 O Lord, you have examined my heart and know everything about me. 2 You know when I sit down or stand up. You know my thoughts even when I’m far away. 3 You see me when I travel and when I rest at home. You know everything I do. 4 You know what I am going to say even before I say it, Lord. 5 You go before me and follow me. You place your hand of blessing on my head. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too great for me to understand!
7 I can never escape from your Spirit! I can never get away from your presence! 8 If I go up to heaven, you are there; if I go down to the grave, you are there. 9 If I ride the wings of the morning, if I dwell by the farthest oceans, 10 even there your hand will guide me, and your strength will support me. 11 I could ask the darkness to hide me and the light around me to become night— 12 but even in darkness I cannot hide from you. To you the night shines as bright as day. Darkness and light are the same to you.
13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it. 15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. 16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.
17 How precious are your thoughts about me, O God. They cannot be numbered! 18 I can’t even count them; they outnumber the grains of sand! And when I wake up, you are still with me!
19 O God, if only you would destroy the wicked! Get out of my life, you murderers! 20 They blaspheme you; your enemies misuse your name. 21 O Lord, shouldn’t I hate those who hate you? Shouldn’t I despise those who oppose you? 22 Yes, I hate them with total hatred, for your enemies are my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. 24 Point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me along the path of everlasting life.
Let me know if you need my commentary on this... :RollieEyes:
:twobyfour:Queenie, LISTEN TO MARK!!!! :twobyfour:
Has he ever steered you wrong?
You are being co-dependent. You are succombing to your addiction to this toxic relationship. :twobyfour:
What has your poswh done to show YOU that he has changed one iota? NOTHING!!!
Now, do you understand what we are trying to tell you? :twobyfour: :MrEEk:
Do we need to put out an APB for MIMI? Or, are you smart enough to realize that God loves you too much for you to settle for this man?
Give him up! LET HIM GO!!! :twobyfour: :twobyfour: :twobyfour: :twobyfour:
Focus on you. Right now you are redirecting your energies. Until you are both broken and healed, there is no chance of ever having a decent marriage with poswh! Do you get my drift.
Sorry, I just don't have the energy to be nice about this. Cut him loose! He doesn't deserve you. You don't deserve that poswh! :twobyfour:
Trust me, peace by yourself is better than living with someone who doesn't demonstrate any love or concern for you. LOTS BETTER! Queenie! SNAP OUT OF IT!!! :twobyfour: :twobyfour: :twobyfour:
I get it. I honestly get it. I have learned that I initially react to stuff on want it out of me to get rid of it, then I start to put into practice what I have learned about myself and what I deserve. I'm not going to him, I'm pushing thoughts of him out of my head and moving on with my life.
Thank you both. But I get this. I honestly get it. I came to the same conclusions in my morning prayers on how I was being the same woman as before. Trying to do something. I deserve what G-d has planned for me.
YOU ARE RIGHT.....
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Queenie! SNAP OUT OF IT!!!
I AM......
I'm not going back to that place. In fact, I'm actually pretty sick and tired of his crap. Not done, but very close. I do deserve better and well I don't even want to talk about him and his lack of whatever...
So... onto more important things. It's gorgeous today, I'm getting ready to celebrate my birthday tomorrow, AND meet LIL and FLICK on Sunday. What a beautiful start to the weekend.
I do HEAR and UNDERSTAND. I just got lost for a little while, well a few hours. I will go read what you suggest Mark too.
Hope, you are right I have stuck this out for so long. Let's just stop thinking or talking about him.
I have more important stuff to deal with....
My YS just failed the math test that he worked so hard for. Which means that he probably won't be able to play because of his grades. However, it's really his fault in the end because he didn't give a rip for so long and now he is reaping the consequences of his choices.
Oh an here is comes, his text, i'm stupid and it's hopeless so I may as well quit lacrosse cause I'm never gonna get the grades. :twobyfour: :twobyfour:
He is JUST LIKE his FATHER.... I made a mistake and I can't live with it the rest of my life.
I'm giving him a dose of truth and it's not making him happy. His response, are you kidding me, I've tried and tried.
No YS, you tried when its convenient, not every day and you certainly didn't try your hardest, so go ahead feel sorry for yourself and give up. Or you can see what kind of young man you are and fight through this.
OMG...... I get to deal with the son on the very SAME THING the WH is dealing with. Why does it seem so clear when it's my son.
Two things you should be very careful praying for:
1) That God would allow our faith to be tested. 2) That God would teach us patience.
He’s only too happy to bring about both…
And yet, it is by having our faith tested that our faith grows and by God making us wait for what He has for us that we become patient.
The most dangerous time in our lives is right after we have had a victory. We lose our focus on what God has done for us and refocus on what we have accomplished. It’s what happened after the victory at Jericho. One man tried to call what God said was His “spoils of war” and claimed a right to them. For that he paid with his life.
But all of Israel sinned when they went against Ai, and 3 dozen paid with their lives for that sin. Instead of focusing on what God had done, they began to believe that THEY had won the battle. “We don’t need everyone” they said. “WE can win this battle with but a few men” & “Look what WE did to Jericho.”
And once they had been defeated, they all lamented their own suffering. “Woe is me...” They began to blame God for the loss. “Why did you ever bring this people across the Jordan to deliver us into the hands of the Amorites to destroy us? If only we had been content to stay on the other side of the Jordan!” They begged God to remove the consequences of their sin. They did what repentant sinners do, (threw themselves down before God, sprinkled dust on their heads, cried out to God) but had not owned the sin they had committed. They blamed it on God. They tried to take credit for the victory at Jericho and yet did not accept the consequences for their own sin.
And this is how you will know for certain when your WH is really ready to return and is truly repentant, Queenie. He will say “I have sinned.” He will not blame or even try to blame you, or God, or Crack-Ho, or his job, or his life, or booze, or drugs…He will OWN the choices he has made and show sorrow for them. He will be sorry and not “sorry, but…”
He might never be at that place since most never reach it. But remember that it was God that brought you this far and it was God that has taken care of you so far and it was God that has given YOU the victories you have enjoyed. Let Him finish what He started. Don’t make the mistake of trying to take ownership of what He has done in your life. You didn’t do it without Him and in fact it was really Him who did it all.
Let Him complete His work and stay out of His way...
But remember that it was God that brought you this far and it was God that has taken care of you so far and it was God that has given YOU the victories you have enjoyed. Let Him finish what He started. Don’t make the mistake of trying to take ownership of what He has done in your life. You didn’t do it without Him and in fact it was really Him who did it all.
Let Him complete His work and stay out of His way...
Stand back, watch and be amazed.
If there has been any inkling of taking the credit from G-d I truly apologize. I don't for one second take the credit of what he has created in me. I'm ashamed to even think that I would have given you that idea.
JT planted in me what I could do with the love for my H. Give it to G-d and just understand that it's there and let G-d have it to hold and continue on the path that G-d desires for me.
I have one more child to somehow raise to manhood and that's all I can be concerned with. My H is a MAN. Let him get his own a$$ out of this mess or NOT.
I'm absolutely in awe of how G-d places the lessons in front of me.
And what I was trying to say was that when we try to add to what God is doing, when we try to do things ourselves, we are really trying to take ownership of what is really His. If we give it to Him, it is His problem and we should just let Him take care of it.
When Yeshua was asked about a group of people who had been killed when a tower had collapsed on them, he responded by asking "Do you think these men died because they were greater sinners than all the rest? I tell you no. But unless you repent, you too will perish."
The implication is the same as I was stating to you regarding Esther. The book of Ester does not mention the Name of God even one time, and yet it was because she was focused on her own relationship with God and His people as first priority that she was in a position to save them from destruction.
The same has to apply to you, Queenie. Your focus has to remain on God and not on WH or what he is doing or not doing or what his status is before God right now. Any time you get caught up in wondering about what he is doing you are allowing yourself to worry about what God will do or not do. Just trust Him to do what is BEST!
We all do it, Queenie. We say we are leaving it in God's hands, we come before Him and dump out our burdens and our troubles and ask Him to take them from us. But then we pick them up and put them back onto ourselves and He just won't chase us down to take them away from us.
If the day comes that WH is really broken and is ready to submit his life to God, then and only then can he be trusted. And if that day comes, YOU must be in that place as well because neither of you can save the other in your own strength.
And since you have no control over WH, you can only submit your own life to God and let God worry about your WH.
Now from a purely emotional standpoint, look at the events of the last few days. DD sent him an email. He replied. You read the reply. You focused only briefly on what it all might mean and then you again questioned what was going on with this latest round of email contact between them. You worried about what he was thinking, why he might be close to being ready to submit to God. You were thinking about him and your emotions began to well up inside you. You recovered quickly, but even at that it took a toll on you. If he ever is ready to come home you need to be ready to take him back and every time you get caught up in his life as long as he is wayward, your love for him dies a little more. A few more times and even if he is ready to come home, you will not want him any more.
Keep focused on the job of Queenie getting stronger and let God worry about WH.
Listen to Mark, Cinder and the others. My WH also said all of those things before I went through several more false recoveries. My bar was so low that he had to limbo under it. I paid for it later. Don't make the same mistake.
Let Him complete His work and stay out of His way...
Stand back, watch and be amazed.
Queenie, Mark is amazing sharing with us all the wisdom that God has given him. When he posts something, I read it, then I go back and READ it. I'm sure you do the same, but I would encourage you to maybe re-read some of the lastest posts he has sent you.
I do not know you, but I can just tell that you are an amazing woman. I have cried, laughed, and truly shared your pain at times. However, I can say today that you are in a much better place today BECAUSE of your obidience to God.
As Mark suggests, STAND BACK, WATCH AND BE AMAZED.
Thank you so very very much, all of you. From the bottom of my heart I am touched and moved beyond words to tell you how special I feel and how eternally grateful I am for your wishes.
This has been one of the best birthdays I have EVER had. It started yesterday with so many co-workers giving me cards and gifts, my very close friend sending flowers to work, then I was taken out to dinner and at services last night a cake was bought for me.
Our services were the absolute best services I have ever attended. We did the reading of the megallah which is the story of Queen Esther. The choir, including me dressed up as Queen Esther, dawning our bathrobes and scarves and jewelry. The rabbi dressed up as raggedy ann and andy while almost everyone came in costume. We learned a whole series of songs to sing in honor of Purim which is a happy holiday, a festival where one is supposed to be merry, sing, dance and get drunk.
We laughed and laughed and it was absolute amazing.
This morning BOTH my son's wished me a happy birthday, and my OS brought me to my friends house but took me to the store to get me a latte. At my friends house, we proceeded to make 700 hamantaschen filled with prune, dates, cherry, raspberry, chocolate, poppy seed, apple and apricot. We laughed, we joked, we talked and we worked so hard. But it was awesome.
Then I got to go fake and bake, got some steaks for dinner and came home and cooked dinner for the boys and me. LOL.... They were happy.
I am one blessed woman, who felt like a completely healed person in a way that I haven't felt before. I enjoyed being with my sister's again, laughing and talking. I felt safe and comfortable and I hadn't for almost two years. I was able to smell the roses and be happy, joyous and free.
The best birthday EVER... Thank you so much for your wishes, love and support.
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I do not know you, but I can just tell that you are an amazing woman. I have cried, laughed, and truly shared your pain at times. However, I can say today that you are in a much better place today BECAUSE of your obidience to God.
As Mark suggests, STAND BACK, WATCH AND BE AMAZED.
I'm honored and truly overwhelmed that so many people care about me. At one time I would have been so embarrassed, but today I am just so grateful because the feeling is mutual for each and everyone of those in my life.
I am a child of G-d like you and today I got to be amazed and blessed.
Queenie, I just stopped in to say Hi and discovered that it is your special Day -- Happy Happy Birthday, many more blessed days. So happy to hear it was a good one!
Thank you so much for stopping by. Not ONLY was it a GREAT day, but tonight G-d gave me ONE MORE gift. It's snowing outside. I'm have a white birthday.
Thank you G-d, so very much for the gift of something that I treasure so very much. The beauty of snow, the quiet of snow and the warmth of snow when you are fortunate to have a home to live in.
HI queenie- just wanted to also wish you a HAPPY BIRHTDAY!
your birthday sounded amazing- and you actually are a queen- just like queen esther! i'm jewish too and celebrate purim.
queen esther - the ultimate GODDESS!!didnt she take her life into her own hands!! she is an inspiration to all of us- as to what greatness can come out of great despair- of never giving up hope and of always believing in yourself.
Yepper doo, for the most part I am behaving myself. Living life. It snowed here yesterday and it is so pretty. I went out shopping last night for 2 1/2 hours at a dollar store for items to the gift baskets that I am making for this week's big classified dinner that I am chairing. My GF and I decided on doing themes, so we have mexican, beauty, movie, candy, books, gardening, sun, etc.
We had so much fun. I think my favorite is going to be the mexican one where we got a blow up sombrero and am going to stuff it with many items.
I love doing this stuff so much.
It occured to me through things that have been said on here that I might be giving the impression that I am really just sitting at home pining for WH to come home. So, to squash that notion I think I should post more about what I do do in my real life so that you are assured that is NOT the case and I am living life to the fullest.
However, let it be clear, I want my M and I am willing to keep walking in FAITH and TRUST G-d that one day he will let me H come home. OK.
So tonight, I am off to my second job, and then tomorrow I am putting the baskets together, and then going to an AA meeting if there is time.
Thursday is the dinner and I have been working on this for a few months now. I have a count of 200 people.
Friday no services so I think I'll pop over to alanon and aa meeting and this weekend. Well, my YS is going to a lacrosse tournament and OS and I are going out to dinner with his GF family to celebrate her and my dinner. Oh, I have a wedding preliminary to do that day as well.
As for Sunday, maybe it will be nice and I can plant the beautiful flowers that I got.
You didnt tell me it was your birthday :twobyfour: I would have got you something when I saw you. I just wanted to stop by and say how totally awesome it was to meet you, you are every bit as sweet in person as you are on here. I wish we had more time, but I am grateful and blessed for the time we did have.
Well life certainly has been interesting. Work, well let's just say that no one is safe from budget cuts and those who thought they might be, were told they aren't. Scare tactics, maybe. What I know is that I can't worry about it. I'll just take it when it comes.
I made it through the ONE YEAR anniversary of Plan B. Not ONE WORD was spoken to WH since March 17, 08. Nothing short of a G-d given miracle for those who know me. LOL The day passed uneventful other than MB going down like last year. I did receive an email from WH on Tuesday.
Queenie Question, the taxs for 07 and 08. What, when and where? Thank you, WH
At first I wondered if this was a slight reaching out, but like last year I had to turn it over to G-d. I can tell you what I wanted to say, but I didn't. I just ignored him. In fact, not only did I not find this email acceptable, but I found it to be arrogant, and rude.
And I went about my business of living my life away from a selfish man or at the very least someone who isn't ready to come home.
Last night in my boredom I did check out my children's facebook and low and behold WH has updated his facebook. This was surprising to say the least. But I know enough to not make anything out of it.
He put up pictures of himself playing lacrosse the last two years since he left, but then he put up pictures of OS from his senior night lacrosse game and the senior festivities. He took pictures of this, not just pictures of my son on the field, but of ME. He took pictures of OS, carrying the flowers and walking over to me at midfield and giving me a hug, then we walked together to give the coach a hug and he kept taking pictures. 15 or so in all. Then he put the picture of me and OS on as the cover. Other than the fact that you have to choose a picture for the cover, I'm not making much of it.
I'm testing the waters, I put up pictures of family life and him and me together. Whether he sees it or not, I don't know or don't care because I'm doing what I want to do.
So last night, I get a call from my OS around 3:30 am. Remember it wasn't too long ago that my DD called me drunk and wanting me to come and get her. He didn't. he evidently got drunk, got mad and went out and broke his hand or so he thought. He didn't want me to come and get him. So I had his GF, put ice on the top and the bottom of his hand and hold it up above his heart for the flow to reduce the inflammation.
Well, he probably didn't break it, but it is swollen, he is totally hung over and he went to play his lacrosse game. Geez, the men in my life.. His GF and I had a wonderful long talk about him and I realized that this experience was in a way something that he could draw upon and understand how people do insane things and you need to make amends for what you have done. He got so drunk he blacked out. I'm not explaining very well what I'm trying to say, but let's just say I have been in constant prayer for my family and the coming together and healing of us.
I know people think I'm stupid, crazy, deserve better or whatever. What I know is that I am the lighthouse in my family and I'll continue to until the fat lady sings... Remember she is still dressing.
Queenie -- No matter what anyone else says, you are the HEART of your family. Period. That's the role of us wives and mothers. And WH was suppose to be the HEAD of the family. He, like all WHs, dropped the ball.
So keep doing what you can to be both the heart and the head of your family. Your kids appreciate you and the sacrifices you make for them.
Queenie, love the analogy of being the lighthouse. You are the beacon in the troubled waters. You shine the true light that they will follow home. No one could ever fault you for that.
You know Holy, I'm not making sacrifices. I'm doing what I believe is G-ds will for me today.
Hope, the lighthouse is actually an analogy that Ark wrote about and I read and it just helped me for so long to maintain my sanity.
I strived to become a Proverbs 31 woman. Though I still have much to learn, I have worked very hard to become someone I am very proud of. I like Queenie. I have learned to love her in a way I didn't think possible. I take care of my person because I am a child of G-d. I'm no one special. But like every one of us are unique. I continue to learn about what I like and what is ok in my life and what isn't.
And I continue to be stewards of the children G-d entrusted with me and my husband. They certainly have their journeys, and it's hard to watch, but I can also keep my sense of humor about the situations and one day....
But today... I am sober, I am grateful and I am very blessed, because G-d allows it to be.
YOU my friend, are a wonderful, beautiful, and caring person. Your kids are very lucky to have you.
Remember, concentrate on you. No more looking at Facebook. Don't read anything into the cover picture because he is still in a fog. He's struggling right now. Back off and let God take care of it. You know that he will.....
I'm testing the waters, I put up pictures of family life and him and me together. Whether he sees it or not, I don't know or don't care because I'm doing what I want to do.
What's up bump.
So what's up Queenie? Your thread dropped to the second page.
The quote and your thread dropping off has me wondering...
I'm testing the waters, I put up pictures of family life and him and me together. Whether he sees it or not, I don't know or don't care because I'm doing what I want to do.
What's up bump.
So what's up Queenie? Your thread dropped to the second page.
The quote and your thread dropping off has me wondering...
Aside from a few family photos of life... I have been VERY GOOD.. VERY GODDESS... Doing the mommy thing and behaving myself.
I am ok. I'm staying dark, but I will admit I'm getting info here and there. It doesn't change what I am doing, where I am heading or where I am going towards. It just is nice to see.
I figure this latest thing is #2 of 100,000 towards maybe coming home. My DD's car was broken into and the window is broken. She doesn't have insurance, so she called her father and he is willing to help her this afternoon. I did ask for a few more information points, but in theory it really doesn't matter. He hasn't been a helping dad since this all happened.
As Luna, why by the way I miss very much, always says... Not much impact in my life... information to have... now it's done and I keep moving.
Don't know if you check out the "20-90 SOMETHING Friends** (The OT Fun Thread!)" thread on the Recovery section, Queenie, but I put up a video there that will un-bored you for 3:42.
Just got home from services. The torah portion this week, vayikra is on sacrifices as leaders. It also was my son's portion for his bar mitzvah almost three years ago, pre A I believe.
I LOVE the new 2 x 4 icon. I might just have to do it on principle alone.
Guess what I realized tonight. I like myself and I like being with myself, living alone and having fun with myself. I don't need anyone to make me happy because G-d leads me. Seems so simple, but gosh it was hard to figure out.
Have a good weekend Mark and Hope, be good to yourselves
Well,it's been a long time since I was this sad or low. And I wasn't sure if I wanted to post about it or not. I'm not looking for anyone's sympathy etc. I just have kept this thread as part of my journey.
Silly me thinking that I was protecting my heart. Silly me thinking I was strong enough to hear my DD talk about her dad and not have it deeply affect or scare me.
So fortunately, Rin was on and she told me to focus on G-d and that's what I am going to do. But I need to post the latest because maybe one day someone's M will be restored and they would have read something I wrote to help them not give up hope or they see that it's just the same.
My DD car got broken into Thursday night. She contacted her dad because she needed his help and he came through for her. The first time in such a long time.
She text me tonight and told me what had happened and how he was so proud of her for the help she had given him and that he realizes what a mistake he made with respect to the children. He realizes what he lost and he wants to reconnect with all three of them. But nothing about me, just he wants to know what to do about the taxes.
When will my love bank be empty or negative so that what he does won't hurt me anymore. What does G-d want from me. I hate feeling the pain and sadness. The pain of losing someone you love so deeply and they don't even care. I get that I need to go dark again and protect myself from his hurtful ways. But somehow now that she is out of the picture.... I just want to be held and cry my heart out so it will stop hurting.
I'm going to a symposium called To Life! The Journey of Addiction & Recovery in our Jewish Community. It will occupy my day tomorrow instead of me hanging around the apt, feeling sorry for myself.
When the 'dumb answers' thread was started, I had trouble restricting myself to two posts. There were about 137 dumb answers I could have dropped in right away. I notice the thread is still growing healthily, so clearly 'fog' is a universal mirth-maker.
I was also struck by Kat's thread on how tough it must be to be the deliverer of the dumb answer, the one deep in fog.
So yesterday, during an interminable technical seminar and a long motorway journey, I found myslef wondering just how WS's get into that situation. My own H has described his own situation to me very clearly, and I've generated my own homespun psychology to explain it. I suppose I'm still at the stage where I'm trying to make sense of everything.
So the following is a personal slant on what I think goes on in the mind of affair partners, and how I think the fog works. It's talking about the 'soulmate' kind of affair - I think fling-type affairs follow different paths. I'd find it useful to know if it matches with others' experiences.
And it's LONG.
To begin with, I believe that 'fog' is a distorted reality.
‘Reality’ for each of us, consists principally of two things – our ‘life model’, and our value system.
The ‘life model’ is the picture we have in our head of how the world works, how people interact with each other. As with an engineering model, we feed possibilities into it and come up with predictions. The accuracy of the model is dependent on many things – how good a starter pack our parents gave us, how detailed we’ve made the model, how much we’ve tested it by running sample data through. Some people have highly accurate models and are considered ‘shrewd’, and some have poor predictive powers and are thought naive. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle.
Our values system is what we use to guide us through life. It’s the set of rules and restrictions and codes that we innately believe will give us the best chance in life. It can be a narrow set – “what’s best for ME”, can revolve around the family, or can be very broad – “what’s in the best interests of the community (town, nation, world)?”
Some of our values are personal – we’ve learned hard lessons from our own experience. – “Don’t steal, or you’ll get a record.’ Some we’ve unconsciously absorbed from our parents – “It’s wrong to steal”. Some we adopt to fit in with peer group ideals – “Her son was done for burglary, isn’t it awful?”.
When we engage with a life-partner, we usually pick someone with a similar values system to our own, and we work hard to bring those systems together. This is not lovey-dovey stuff - it’s innately practical. If we are both bound by the same restrictions and drivers, we are likely to support and reinforce each other. We will be able to ‘trust’ – to confidently predict the other’s actions and opinions – and will therefore have a solid platform on which to base our life.
Our values system is based implicitly on our life model, and it works by reward and punishment. If we conform to our values, we build self-esteem and feel good about ourselves. If we violate our values, we feel discomfort. We attempt to get away from the discomfort by a) confessing and apologising, ie reconforming to values, or b) stuffing the discomfort down, or c) altering the values system so that we don’t appear to have breached it.
When an affair begins, there is usually huge temptation involved – for whatever reason. The temptation overwhelms the values system – when the WS says “I didn’t think…” , that’s exactly right. The normal mental mechanisms were not in play, largely because the life model was not sophisticated or accurate enough to detect what was happening nor predict the likely consequences, or because an intensity of resentment or anger caused normal mechanisms to be deliberately ignored. There is a ‘fantasy leap’, almost like a leap of religious faith. This leap says ‘ I want some fun / excitement / attention. I deserve that. I believe that this will make me feel better, and I believe I can control it, and get what I want out of it.”
The ‘denial’ mechanism can’t operate for long – the values system is too powerful for that. But by the time the underlying values system kicks in, the two affair partners have usually got themselves in sufficiently deep for there to be painful drawbacks in pulling out, and significant benefits in staying in. Excitement and pleasure oppose pain and discomfort.
For most people, an affair is a serious violation of their values system, so that sooner or later, the intense discomfort of values-betrayal is felt. This is heavy-duty pain, the kind that the WS is keen to escape from, like appendicitis. So how do they escape that pain? See above. They could a) confess – but of course it’s not something trivial they’d be confessing, so forget that, b) stuff the discomfort down, or c) alter the values system.
I suspect that most WS’s begin by trying to stuff the pain. But it’s too big – like getting an elephant into a suitcase. So there is really only one way to go. The values system has to change. It seems likely that the WS moves rapidly away from such intense pain – perhaps so quickly that its presence is not even noticed.
So the WS’s position metamorphoses:
1) It’s wrong to have an affair. 2) Friendship is not an affair. 3) Affairs are only wrong if they threaten the marriage. This is a friendship-with-sex and does not threaten the marriage. 4) The outside relationship ‘brightens’ me, and is therefore good for the marriage. 5) Other people are inexperienced. They don’t understand the power of a passionate friendship, and how enriching it is. 6) This affair is not wrong. In fact, I could not live without it.
The process is driven, I suspect, by a factor which none of the literature seems to comment on much – the fact that TWO people are involved.
Both affair partners are having to alter their values systems to accommodate what they’re doing. This feels uncomfortable, so they look to each other for confirmation that they’re justified in acting as they are. Neither wants to believe that they’re involved with someone whose values system is easily changed – that would be weak - so they must each work hard to convince each other that they are good, that their values are altering only because they are ‘growing’, becoming too complex and sophisticated / visceral / emotionally liberated for the old realities as personified by their spouses. They therefore reinforce each other, generating a self-perpetuating cycle that builds like a fire in heavy winds.
In addition, the same values-converging process that happened with the marital partners operates on the affair partners. Ironically, there is a strong need for security, perhaps to replace the dwindling security that the marriage is likely to provide (if the affair is exposed). The affair partners therefore work to keep each other ‘in’ the relationship by escalating involvement and increasing the other’s personal investment.
The desperate need to believe in the security of the relationship, in its ability to support and nurture, in its essential goodness, leads to what looks from the outside to be reckless behaviour. There is a mutual denial of the dangers of STDs or pregnancy.
By this time, the WS’s values systems are a LONG way from where they began.
Think back to what a values system is. It’s a set of beliefs based on a life model – the most realistic picture an individual can generate of how the world works. To support the altered values system, there has to be an altered life model (the one that says, eg, affairs won’t hurt my family).
The problem with the altered life model is that it’s not realistic. It starts from a premise that’s innately flawed – that it is OK for this individual to have this affair. The flaw distorts all logic.
Imagine that you postulated a theory that air would support your weight if there was enough of it under you, ie if you got high enough above the ground. Obviously, water supports large ships under a similar theory, so it’s a reasonable conjecture. The theory would look OK as long as you didn’t have to personally prove it. We can see that skydivers don’t appear to conform to the principle, but perhaps that’s just because they don’t get high enough?
Once you’re working to this theory, it becomes obvious that planes are a rather naïve concept. All that going-fast when all they have to do is climb up to the level where they’re supported by air molecules! The notion that satellites have to orbit at high speed is also clearly daft – at that height the trouble would be getting them down!
The affair partners are now operating far above safe oxygen levels. But to them, everything makes perfect sense.
This is ‘fog’.
The flawed model is a poor predictor. It fails as soon as it’s put to a real-world test. In fact, it fails all the time. In truth, it fails so frequently that the affairees must exert colossal energy just to keep themselves in the suspension of disbelief. And the self-delusion may eventually be exposed by real-world reactions that cannot easily be denied or ignored – the anguish of children, the disappointment on a mother’s face, the lash of a lawyer’s letter.
So what’s happening to the marriage, while all of this is going on?
To begin with, the WS moves between the two realities with a sense of excitement. It’s an escape. But, as the two realities diverge, there is increasing discomfort at the difficulty of bridging the two, of making the transition between them. To counter this, and because the affair is where the excitement is, a sense of anger, indignation and self-righteousness develops that the WS is ‘having’ to lie and deceive. If only the BS’s could be sophisticated enough to understand the benefits of the arrangement! If the BS’s were not so selfish, they would be glad that the WS’s are happy! It is infuriating that the stupid, inflexible BS’s would inevitably whinge and complain and wreck the perfect love of two people who were destined for each other…
There is no counter-balancing argument from the BS, because the BS does not know what is going on. But the likelihood is that the spouse has an instinctive awareness that something is wrong, and is becoming defensive and confrontational. The marriage is becoming an uncomfortable environment.
So the WS has now manoeuvred themselves into a position where the only source of acceptance and pleasure is with the OP. The WS inevitably moves further away from the marriage.
The affair usually loses its flavour, as the affairees begin to know each other and recognise that the affair partner is far from an improvement on the marital partner, and that the effort involved is no longer justified by the benefits. But as the emotional bond weakens, the two affairees may perversely cling to each other even more tightly, though not always at the same time. There is probably a bond of friendship, hopelessly complicated by the sexual connection and conspiracy to bteray.
By now they are in a position where exposure of the affair seems likely to end the two marriages anyway. The marriages are now so tarnished – the WS’s have moved so far away from the original values systems still supported by their spouses – that the affair, for all its misery, is now a more likely candidate for the future than the marriage. Both WS’s are locked in a death-spiral – each is terrified that the affair partner will leave the affair to recover the marriage, leaving one WS abandoned and hopeless. And at least one WS may be trapped by the terror of having to establish permanence with the affair partner, or be alone.
So what about the ‘fog’? The WS is moving between two realities; he or she is effectively two people. There is a ‘flickering’ effect, like moving between perceptions in a magic-eye picture. Sometimes WS#2 flickers into life in Reality #1. If the bad reception makes it difficult for the BS to ‘see’ the wayward spouse, the discontinuity makes it impossible for the WS to ‘see’ the old reality clearly too. WS convinces themselves that all is unchanged and well in the old life. They may even become angry if the BS is liberal with the old value system. It is necessary for the BS to be predictable via a well-understood parcel of values, in order for the WS’s deceit to work. There may also be a need, unacknowledged, for the BS to act as keeper-of-the-flame, to vicariously hold to what the WS has lost, to be a solid platform to return to.
And then comes dday, and the clash of matter and anti-matter, as the two realities meet. For the first time, the WS is presented with penetrating questions about the logic of the affair’s life-model. For the first time, the illogicality of the affair’s premise is exposed. The WS must defend the affair, or appear hilariously stupid. Defending the affair with dodgy logic has been the option for the life of the affair; the dodgy logic has been vigorously supported by the OP, so that the WS has had no practice in providing a reasonable defence. Small wonder that the WS feels threatened and humiliated and hits back. Small wonder that the arguments are so feeble – the same feeble arguments have been applauded as sage wisdom for so long, the WS is profoundly indignant at being challenged in any way. At this point, the WS provides us with all of those witty sayings that we howl at on the ‘dumb answer’threads.
At this point, the WS can head off in one of several directions. They might retreat permanently. They might reluctantly acknowledge that some of the logic was flawed, and move slowly back into the old values system. They might recognise immediately the mistake they have made, and set about with energy and determination to fix the mess they have created. Or they might settle for a fortress mentality and stubbornly defend what they’ve done, in unconscious fear that being wrong means being annihilated.
There seem to be lots of each WS type here on this board.
I'm not doing anything....but crying my heart out.
I try to keep up with your thread. You are an inspiration. Ive noticed lately i have been crying my heart out a lot. MY WH seems to be done w OW and no indication that he wants his family back. It seems like just when I start feeling strong I fall apart again. the pain is always there.
I hate to hear that your heart hurts. It makes me so mad that there is so many eartbroken ,good people on this forum. Hang in there. MY prayers are with you tonite. Lots of hugs.
How you doing hon????.....Well, actually, that is a stupid question (must be the blonde in me again....).
Anyway, continue your journey.....you are on such a great path, and I am so proud of YOU. Look how you have grown. YOu have been dealing with one of the hardest things life can deal you, and you are not only making it, but you are THRIVING.....think back, you never thought you could do this, yet here you are today, doing it. And encouraging and inspiring others in your journey. That, my dear, is NO SMALL FEAT......sooooo, stand proud...
Now, that being said, of course you will become affected when your children talk about their dad. And honestly (watch who gets the 2x4's now.....) I think it is good for you to hear this stuff because YOU are their mother. You are there for them and support them, no matter what, and even if have to suffer some amount of pain to do it. Plus this gives you a gauge to see where you are in your journey concerning your WS.
Now when will your LB be negative or empty???....No one has the answer to that. I personally (notice I say PERSONALLY....I already argued this, and this is how I see this) know that my LB for my H would never go there. There would ALWAYS be something.
Is that how it would be for you???? or can you see your LB becoming negative and empty for this man???
That is a question only you can answer, and maybe with all that has gone on recently, combined witht the fact you were SERIOUSLY talking divorce just PRIOR to finding out the WH and CH were over, that you need to comptemplate and think on. Yes, I know that it won't be easy and even painful.
I am so sorry honey really I am. I understand this pain you are going through. Though my journey isn't over and has taken a different road, I do understand. I hate it too. The pain is unbearable. I get that. In fact, I was just telling H yesterday that I get angry still because THAT is easier for me to deal with than the pain......
and even though you want to held and heard and cry your heart out, well, it may not be the same but that is why you have all of us.....
Queenie....I love you and am very proud of you.....
not2fun
ps...sorry if this seems kinda rambly and goes off course from time to time, but my thoughts were drifting in and out on exactly what it was I wanted to say and what pertained to your sitch, my sitch, or MB stuff in general......again, that blonde in me....lol
My DD car got broken into Thursday night. She contacted her dad because she needed his help and he came through for her. The first time in such a long time.
She text me tonight and told me what had happened and how he was so proud of her for the help she had given him and that he realizes what a mistake he made with respect to the children. He realizes what he lost and he wants to reconnect with all three of them. But nothing about me, just he wants to know what to do about the taxes.
((((Queenie))))
In my experience, it is easier when they are being jerks. As long as the wayward is acting like a cracked out alien, the BS can ALMOST convince themselves that they are better off without the WS.
But IF the WS starts to act slightly human again, and STILL won't come home, it is just another blow to the gut of the BS.
So many things have happened to my exWS, the affair ended (he still didn't love me), he has moved over 6 times (he never came home), he was single for a few months (he still didn't see me as a potential partner), he occasionally acts like a good dad (but he still doesn't love me).
It is a ridiculous cycle, me waiting for something from him. I am MUCH better now, but man...it has taken a loooong time. I think I will always want to feel something from him, other than flat out rejection.
Many BS's get to experience that day when the WS WANTS them again, sometimes the BS has already moved on. I do not believe I will ever have that experience, I don't think he will ever apologize, ever hint that he made a mistake or ever acknowledge that I am not the cause of Global Warming, famine and economic crisis.
Here's a little secret: If I pretend that I am OK with that, maybe I can fool the karma bus and that feeling from him will come because I have acted like it is the last thing I expected.
It doesn't work, you can't fool Mother Nature (what was that commercial???)
I'm sorry you are hurting, it does get better, it just takes longer than we want.
But IF the WS starts to act slightly human again, and STILL won't come home, it is just another blow to the gut of the BS.
You are so right Jean. When that happens, it's like Dday all over again. Like you, I've realized that my WH will never attempt any kind of apology or make any effort to put this all back together.
Hi StillHere, thank you for stopping by. I'm so grateful for your kind words and support. I hope you are feeling better and the wave of pain and sadness has passed for you. It doesn't last, I promise you that. And you'll be stronger for having gone through it.
JT, Thank you so much for taking time to call me. Your message meant so much to me and always helps me keep focused on G-d and my limited if not blind view of what's truly happening. Because I'm the limited one not G-d and he sees exactly what is happening.
Chai and for the others who were hurting this week. I thought of something so silly. What if we were helping by crying our hearts out this weekend and it kept the rising waters of the red river down for the families and homes of South Dakota. Ok a far stretch but hey... I'm all about getting out minds changed.
Hi Not, I love you so much and yes I know how hard this journey has been for you. I miss our talks on here more than you realize. I so appreciate your words of encouragement and follow your story. You have some amazing strength and you betcha... who would have thought we could have come through this as gracefully and strong as we have. It's only natural that we have our down days, but they are NOTHING like they were.
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In my experience, it is easier when they are being jerks. As long as the wayward is acting like a cracked out alien, the BS can ALMOST convince themselves that they are better off without the WS.
But IF the WS starts to act slightly human again, and STILL won't come home, it is just another blow to the gut of the BS.
I would have to agree with you on this. And I'm so very sorry for the pain and hurt you have gone through as a result of this very thing. Not just once, but many times over. It's no fun at all is it?
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It is a ridiculous cycle, me waiting for something from him. I am MUCH better now, but man...it has taken a loooong time. I think I will always want to feel something from him, other than flat out rejection.
Oh my goodness I can relate to this so much. It's almost as if all those years you were together were for nothing or didn't mean anything. I'm not made this way and so it's so hard for me to understand.
Jean, I am inspired by your strength and ability to get through the painful times. Thank you so much for posting to me and helping me. Chai, it isn't really like D-day over again. We get to give ourselves so much more credit than that. It's just the pain wave coming in, reminding us we are hurting and then going back out. We are so truly much stronger than before. Remember, these used to last DAYS and we went so MUCH farther DOWN....
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He wants you to walk with him and talk with him.
Well, then my friend Cinders, he should be very happy right about now. Because I have done a lot of walking, talking and praying...
Oh Queenie I love ya girl. I am sorry I havent been around. I have been so busy with work and getting things organized here. So this is a check in... and wishing you a happy passover.
When Israel was in slavery in Egypt and Pharaoh refused to let them go free, God performed miracles to humble Pharaoh though his heart was hardened against God and against His people. He sent plagues across the land and brought Pharaoh and his whole kingdom to a place of brokenness and proved that He was God, the Master of the universe and King over all. If that had been all that He did, it would have been enough…
But He didn’t stop there. He brought calamity on the house of Egypt, killing the first born across the entire land while sparing those who called on His Name. If He stopped then, it would have been enough…
But He led the people from Egypt, not merely sending them out into the wilderness alone but actually going with them. He led them by day and guarded them by night. And that alone would have been enough…
But when they found themselves with their backs to the sea and their enemies attacking for all around them, He parted the waters and led them to safety. He destroyed their enemies as even the seas obeyed His commands and swallowed the army of Pharaoh. And that surely would have been enough…
But God continued to lead them as they made their way across the wilderness to the place where He gave them the Law, to guide them, teach them and set them apart to be a beacon to the world. If that had been all He did, it would have been enough…
He watched over them, guided them daily, and provided for them daily with manna and with water from a rock in a dessert where no water flowed. For 40 years he watched over His people while waiting for them to understand that what He had done already would have been enough…
He led them into the land He had promised to Abraham and to Isaac and Jacob and drove out their enemies before them. He blessed them and sent judges to show them His ways, kings to lead them to victory and prophets to warn them of their impending doom if they failed to follow His laws. And it would have been enough…
But though He punished them for their disobedience and allowed them to be led away once more into captivity and let their cities be destroyed, He kept a remnant safe from harm and used His guidance to place Daniel in a place of power in the very kingdom that held His people captive. He shut up the mouths of the lions so they could not harm His servant. He surrounded His servants with protection in the midst of the furnace and prevented even their clothes from being singed by its flames. And that certainly would have been enough…
But He put Nehemiah into place where he could be sent by a pagan king to rebuild the walls and sent him and Ezra to rebuild the House that bore His Name. It could have been enough…
But He kept His people together through days of terrible persecution and sent leaders to drive away those who had defiled the Temple. He worked a miracle to make the oil that should have been only enough for a single day to last until the Temple had been cleansed and rededicated. And that might have been enough…
And when the Romans destroyed the cities and the people scattered to the four corners of the earth, God went with them all and kept them apart, preventing them from being absorbed into the culture where ever they went. He watched over them and though their enemies tried to destroy them He saved a few so that when the time came they could return to the land promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob…
He isn’t just sitting by while you suffer, Queenie. He is acting to protect you and lead you where He wants you to go. He isn’t content with what He has already done or the miracles He has already performed though any of them would have surely been enough.
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Psalm 139 (New International Version) 1 O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. 2 You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. 3 You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways. 4 Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD. 5 You hem me in—behind and before; you have laid your hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain. 7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. 11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me," 12 even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you. 13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. 17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them! 18 Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand. When I awake, I am still with you.
What He has already done would have been enough, but He isn't done working yet...
Shabbat Shalom, Queenie, Pretty, Miriam, Bellevue and White Russian.
Looks like we might get an extension to our hockey season around here this year...Who'd 'a' thunk? No thoughts of actually bringing a cup home at the end, but at least the boys can play...
Hey Chai, I gave you a ring earlier this afternoon. My friend felt the need to unleash her frustration in life on me by telling me Plan B was stupid and that if I wanted my H back I needed to contact him.
She hit quite a nerve and the do something came alive. Oh yes, you are probably thinking I went for it. NOPE.....
What I did was call his aunt and check in with her. She helped me see some stuff and said give it time. G-d has his plan.
I don't know what the motivation of frustration and anger from my friend was, but I certainly wasn't going to become a part of it. I prayed for her and asked G-d to give her what she needs.
Still no money from the state on garnishment. WH's company didn't pay last month, so on Apr 1st I called. She said to give it a few days, so we shall see. I really hate the broke part, but oh well. This too shall pass.
Count me in on that one. Oh, nevermind. I forgot that I had all of that "hidden" money. Queenie, Cinder, when I remember where I hid it, I'll send some to both of you.
This has been quite a day. Oh yes, beyond belief...
Who is sitting down.
Guess who showed up at the game tonight. OH YES.... You got it.
And he was different. I walked up to him and immediately he complimented me on my glasses. I nearly fell over. He was so talkative.
It was NOTHING like I thought it would be. It was so calm and natural. I didn't feel like I needed to do or say anything. I kept thanking G-d over and over while I stood next to him. We spoke about each child, laughed about their antics.
I didn't offer to much, he was the one who kept bringing up stuff. He mentioned about passover, which meant he saw me in the store and I asked him if he saw the price of matzah this year. He said no, that he couldn't afford it. I told him me either, that I was using the matzah I had from last year.
Then he said, "I take it from the letter that you aren't getting money". I just smiled at him and shook my head graciously. He told me he would talk to his boss. He didn't understand why I wasn't getting my money because they were taking it out of his check. Will see what he does. Don't know.
I'm not reading anything into anything. It was just light and easy and I am so grateful for that.
I spoked to his aunt this afternoon. Funny she told me that if I ever talked to him to pass her love onto him. I did.
I was Queenie tonight. I didn't fix, control or do anything. I just was a woman of G-d standing near her husband and sending him my love through my thoughts.
Hi Sunshine, Lil, she is one of the most important people in my life. I'll have to read up on your thread.
Thank you for stopping by.
No, being broke isn't fun, but I would say at least I have a job and my bills just will get paid though late. There are a lot more people hurting than me so I consider myself lucky and all good things come in G-ds time.
I hope to get to know you Sunshine..... And tell Lil... I love her.
Oh my, he is posting back and forth to me on facebook through my daughters post. I wrote to her about the game tonight and that her brother had a goal. He corrected me and said it was two... actually it wasn't, but I added he had an assist and he said, yes and I have pictures of them.
Come on over! The kids are in bed, my H is away, and I'm wide awake watching Sex And The City. Your company would be more than welcome.
I'm no expert in Plan B, Queenie. Heck. I'm no expert in good marriages either. (Duh!) I don't know if my advice is any good. My unqualified opinion is to appreciate that your H was kind and that it was a good day for your daughter. Take it for what it was and if it makes you smile, then do so. You most certainly deserve it. But do not change what you are doing. Do not change your plan. One day of kindness does not means things have changed. It simply means that today he was nice.
And the experts will be on their way to guide you further.
You have my cell number and my phone is right next to me. I'll probably be up until 1:00. I took my "keep you awake" meds later than I'm supposed to. If you wanna call, I'm here. If you don't, I'll think nothing of it other than you found the sweet comfort of slumber.
Hi Verve, G-d has given me a very special gift for just today and for that I am so grateful.
I want to walk in his path because it's my path to healing completely.
I do have your cell phone and if I get the opportunity you betcha I will call. How long is hubby gone for? We could talk tomorrow if I don't get the kids to leave me alone.
He's gone just overnight. Up to his father's an hour away to work on the car and it got late. His father needs company since the divorce so it's good when H can visit. He'll be back tomorrow afternoon.
I'm just catching up on MB and watching TV. My life is a-many-a-wonderous thing.
...just dropping by to say Hi and offer you my support...in walking your journey, and thank you for sharing it with us...and do agree that....
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It's just the pain wave coming in, reminding us we are hurting and then going back out. We are so truly much stronger than before. Remember, these used to last DAYS and we went so MUCH farther DOWN....
Hi Sunshine, Lil, she is one of the most important people in my life. I'll have to read up on your thread.
Thank you for stopping by.
No, being broke isn't fun, but I would say at least I have a job and my bills just will get paid though late. There are a lot more people hurting than me so I consider myself lucky and all good things come in G-ds time.
I hope to get to know you Sunshine..... And tell Lil... I love her.
Queenie, You are very special to me and always will be. And Queenie... I love you too
Wow Queenie!!!! The ice is thawing... God is awesome... Tread slow and steady... do what's best for Queenie. How long has it been since he left? And how long have you been in Plan B now? Amazing. Just amazing.
So...you're WH puts you through HE11 for the last what 4yrs??? Has stopped making payments to you, runs off with a crack ho. She dumps him and you meet him and are suddenly his best friend? And all this while you're in Plan B? Queenie I have 1 word and a letter for you PLAN D!
What message does this send to you're children? Let a scum bag walk all over you and then reward him at the end. TWISTED!
Honestly, I think you're bordering on a lost cause. You seriously need to gain some self-esteem and self respect. If you can't do it for yourself then do it for you're kids
Honestly, I think you're bordering on a lost cause. You seriously need to gain some self-esteem and self respect.
Since we are friends IRL and I know the journey you've been on-how your faith has grown and how much you have changed, I totally disagree with this assessment of you. JMHO
So...you're WH puts you through HE11 for the last what 4yrs??? Has stopped making payments to you, runs off with a crack ho. She dumps him and you meet him and are suddenly his best friend? And all this while you're in Plan B? Queenie I have 1 word and a letter for you PLAN D!
What message does this send to you're children? Let a scum bag walk all over you and then reward him at the end. TWISTED!
Honestly, I think you're bordering on a lost cause. You seriously need to gain some self-esteem and self respect. If you can't do it for yourself then do it for you're kids
MFIL, uh your math is a little off. This is 2009. He left in MAY 2007. It's been LESS than TWO years. I don't understand your thinking. What Queenies' husband has done is what MOST waywards do. They ALL are horrible.
What GREATER message does it send to her children if he DOES come to his senses, restores his family and becomes the man that God intended?
Just because you chose the divorce route, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Sorry, you're dead wrong about Queenie.
Queenie's WH has done all but murder one of her loved ones. But I guess that would be ok too just as long as he was sorry. I mean ya....she would be an absolute monster if she couldn't forgive him and restore her family.
I mean thats all that matters isn't it? Excuse me while I
Queenie's WH has done all but murder one of her loved ones. But I guess that would be ok too just as long as he was sorry. I mean ya....she would be an absolute monster if she couldn't forgive him and restore her family.
I mean thats all that matters isn't it? Excuse me while I
Some people just don't get it and only know how to hurl insults and ridicule. It's pointless to continue this discussion with you Vladie. I pray that God opens your eyes some day.
Queenie, sorry about all the TJing. You are an AMAZING STRONG woman of GREAT faith. I've watched you transform into a quietly strong woman of poise and grace. Don't let the naysayers convince you otherwise and cause you to start doubting yourself. You are WORTH IT!
Maybe Mark will come along and share his great wisdom with us now that things have changed.
The point being is that he said he would have given up long ago. You say NEVER give up. I have the problem with the NEVER part. People HAVE to move on or they end up wasting their lives and for what....a WS who doesn't give a.........
Okay, point taken. You're right. I shouldn't have said NEVER. So I've edited my original post where you came unglued and changed it to:
"Don't give up. Never give up UNLESS and UNTIL you are sure in your OWN heart that it's the right thing to do.."
That's what I meant. Of course there are some situations where clearly a marriage is not meant to be saved... but there are also cases where a marriage CAN be saved despite of what others see and believe.
My understanding is that he is no longer with Crackho. How can that be cake-eating? That's when a WH has both BW AND OW in his pocket.
Besides that, I don't think Queenie thinks any such thing... that WH wants to come home. I don't think that either. What I DO believe is that his heart is thawing towards his family.
And with God ANYTHING is possible. My WH was just as bad as Queenies, if not worse. You wouldn't know it today.
What's changed? I don't see any changes. I see Plan B being broken and WS showing signs of not being a complete waste of skin and air...
I see Queenie longing for what might have been, what might yet be and what might never happen...
I see hope being placed in the WS instead of in God's plan...
I see expectations that can all too easily be smashed to pieces when things don't happen the way we thought they would...
Facts:
* WH is no longer with Crack Ho. * He could contact Queenie at any time and tell her that he is willing to do what she said it would take for her to take him back in her Plan B letter. * He did not contact Queenie but merely showed up at DS's game. * He has expressed sadness to DD (not sorrow, but sadness) * He has not provided for Queenie or the children financially since all of this began and still has not. * He showed signs of maybe rejoining the human race.
Do I think there is a chance that he might actually end up wanting to come home? I have no doubt about it.
Should Queenie take him back?
Ah, there is the question...
Queenie, IMO the only way you should let this man back into your life is if he works his a$$ off to get you to let him back into your life. Even then, I would make it all conditional on so many things only a man who truly loved you would even consider doing what it took.
Think back to late December gang. Bugs had contact with Drac. Drac was at the moment without an affair partner. Drac seemed nearly human and so much less alien...
It was false hope. Nothing had really changed except that Drac needed a fix and Bugs could provide what he so desperately needed.
The result? Bugs got hurt all over again...
Queenie, until WH is completely broken and knows that he is helpless without God there is no way he can become the man you need him to be. He is not active in an affair at the moment. So what? That does not mean he is a former WS only that he is a WS not currently with an affair partner.
I hope he proves me wrong, Queenie. I pray that he proves me wrong. But until he proves I am wrong, he isn't worth the brain cells it takes to think about what he is doing.
You got this far by focusing on God and letting WH be His problem. You still can't fix him. God can if WH decides to let Him.
Queenie, think about the laws regarding clean and unclean things. When something that is clean comes into contact with that which is unclean, what happens? Does the clean thing make the unclean acceptable?
If a dead animal falls into a well used for drinking water, isn't the well defiled? If and a person comes into contact with an unclean thing is not the person considered to be unclean until God's requirements for cleansing have been fulfilled?
Until God has dealt with WH, he is an unclean thing and to be avoided. You cannot lift him up but he can most certainly drag you down with him.
Watch. Wait! Pray! Stay focused on your own relationship with God and let God decide what to do about WH.
Not saying give up hope. Saying don't create false hopes based on a moment of civility and a brief moment of sanity from an insane person and a day of sobriety from a drunk...
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Zechariah 3 (New International Version)1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."
5 Then I said, "Put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the LORD stood by.
6 The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: 7 "This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here.
Only God can perform this transformation. Only doing what God requires is good enough for God. Only by doing all that He requires can WH earn a right to stand once more as a leader of the family. Don't sell short, Queenie. Wait for the full plan to be revealed.
My goodness, but you all have been quite busy. Vladi, I have missed you dude. I know you think I am truly this pathetic woman, pining away for my husband. NOTHING could be further from the truth. I'm am out living life, learning about myself, raising my children. I guess I'm asking for you to trust me on this.
Now, maybe if I did have more self worth, or if I wasn't fat I would kiss him off and find someone new. But then again, maybe not. This is MY JOURNEY, G-d is leading me somewhere that I simply haven't arrived at.
If I gave you all the impression that I was "convinced", moved or anything else "sure" that WH was former, it's simply not true. I'm not READING anything into it. It was a moment in time where I had a glimpse that my H still existed and quite honestly I'm good with that for today.
I'm happy in my life, I'm raising my children, I'm "partying" with my friends and I'm walking with G-d. Mark, you have been with me from the beginning. I'm not STUPID. I experienced one moment, but PLEASE BELIEVE when I say I didn't FALL for him
Clearly he is still wayward, clearly he is still not broken, clearly he is as arrogrant as he was that allowed him to get into this position. He is cynical, he is sarcastic and he isn't broken at all. In fact, I would say he wasn't even really sorry or the slightest remorseful for what he has done. It took him years to get to this place, it's going to take a very long time for him to get out and that's even still a crap shot. I'm not STUPID. And I'm not just pining away for him. OK....
PM said it beautifully, he is NOTHING SPECIAL. He is WAYWARD, he is icky, but he is pretty predictable and pretty much has been. I'm not fawning over this ONE MOMENT. I'm just being grateful for this ONE MOMENT because I didn't have it before today.
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Watch. Wait! Pray! Stay focused on your own relationship with God and let God decide what to do about WH.
Truly, this is all I am doing. I wasn't planning on being in contact with him. I wasn't planning on doing anything with him. He is still icky for the most part.
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Only God can perform this transformation. Only doing what God requires is good enough for God. Only by doing all that He requires can WH earn a right to stand once more as a leader of the family. Don't sell short, Queenie. Wait for the full plan to be revealed.
Maybe it's in my delivery. Maybe it's my lack of formal proper English, I don't know, but I can assure you. The skinsgal who joined MB over a year and a half ago, is NOT the QUEENIE who lives today. I'm not DOING anything, but seeking G-ds will for me. Was what happened yesterday a sign, don't know. It just was a moment of civility.
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Queenie, until WH is completely broken and knows that he is helpless without God there is no way he can become the man you need him to be. He is not active in an affair at the moment. So what? That does not mean he is a former WS only that he is a WS not currently with an affair partner.
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I don't want THIS man back.
But I also am not going to spit in G-ds face and not thank him for the MOMENT. That's all end of story. Now onto the business of raising my children and living MY LIFE.
More FALSE HOPE! Oh he spoke to me and Queenie running around in a tizzy imagining that this means that he now wants to come home. Please!
Vladi, I give you alot of leeway, but GEESH dude. I don't think I EVER said this or even thought it. For goodness sake, give me some credit. OK?
This isn't even about HIM. This is about ME. If you have walked through my journey you would understand, how much GUILT, I have for not being the wife I was capable of being. I'm in AA, and I had to own up to the absolute wreckage my behavior and actions caused in the M.
I love a man that I believe to be a good human being that has the potential to be an amazing human being. Again, I still have one child to raise. Why not give G-d time, keep moving on living my life and just keep the door open.
When the door closes it will be because G-d says so. If the door stays open it will be because G-d says so.
I'm just out having fun being single, enjoying the last years of my children and thinking about taking up photography.
Come on Vladi, you have had more impact in my life. Give yourself some credit of influence on me.
Oh wait... does that mean I shouldn't bring WH all his favorite foods for lunch tomorrow. Or I shouldn't bring him a care package of food because he is so broke.
I feel for you Q and you are doing phenomenal. I too feel partially responsible for my crappy because I did not get help for my depression. Our WS' were still dead wrong. And mine also has been a scumbag.
But I know that if I am not ready to move on and I do get a D that in my heart I would always know that i moved on before I was ready. Even if I was D now I would still not be ready to date. So I feel what is the rush to move on. I am working on myself, like you. and just going with the flow in plan B.
My H has also been showing signs of a melting heart for his family. And it does give me some hope. but I am not waitin for him. WhEN I am completely ready (which i AM feeling is goin to be sooner then later) I am moving on. And if he comes back to me then, BEGGING AND PLEADING AND TRULY REMORSEFUL, I feel That I wont take him back because it took me so long to move on.
But if in the meantime He does turn around I may very well take him back.
My point is that I think like you Q, I am not wasting my time waiting for WH to come around. I am taking some well needed time to work on myself if not for R then for my next relationship, when i am ready for it.
So your doing great queenie!!!! And we wont settle!!!
Queenie - Continue living a very pleasant life. And remember, my WH broke up with the OW in January and he didn't start defogging until the following November. It takes awhile for all that fog to clear.
Queenie...just catching up on your thread...I am so glad that you sound happy.
This part is hard...I remember it well...it's hard to believe that once the A ends they don't snap right back to the old H that you knew. As believer said...the fog often takes a loooong time to clear.
Yes, SMB, I know exactly how you feel and I'm really on the same page. My faith is in G-d and his plan for me.
No Still, we absolutely won't settle for less. Even though I had a very nice "chat" with WH. I realize he isn't at all the man I need in my life. He isn't my H he is arrogant, cynical, sarcastic and not someone that I want to spend the rest of my life with. His journey is just beginning, mine is continuing and I'm just seem to be more at peace with my role.
Believer and MF, you know how much I value your input and am so appreciative of the support you give me. I truly get this is a SLOW process and I'm out here enjoying life. I'm smelling the coffee, appreciating the day and just letting G-d do what he is going to do.
I'm making plans and moving on. I'm not sitting at home wasting my life away.
I got what you mean Cinderella. I'm not a fool. He is completely still toxic, the ONLY difference was that couldn't even carry on a civil thought that wasn't about him.
I'm not counting anything. I'm truly not.
Oh you bet Looking, I just came in for some soda and check on here. But back outside and with my torah shall I go.
How about you, enjoying the awesome day G-d has given us?
You have probably heard this a lot lately, but the shift in you is so wonderful to see. You have found your power; you are very centered, and your strength is very attractive. It's been amazing watching you change. Godspeed on your journey.
You have probably heard this a lot lately, but the shift in you is so wonderful to see. You have found your power; you are very centered, and your strength is very attractive. It's been amazing watching you change. Godspeed on your journey.
I could not have done it without everyone on here who has walked with me. I have found G-d's light in me. And that's what's so bright... His will in my life.
Today was a good day for me in that I spent a great deal of it with G-d. The weather was absolutely gorgeous and so I sat outside, worked on my tan and read Torah.
Mark, should you happen to read this, I was wondering what the differences between the psalms and proverbs are? I can't quite put my finger on the differences.
But here's what drew my attention today:
Psalm 143:1 - Oh Lord hear my prayer, give ear to my supplications.
143:3 For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; He hath crushed my life down to the ground; He hath made me to dwell in dark places, as those that have been long dead.
143:4 - And my spirit fainteth within me
143:7-10 Answer me speedily, O Lord, My spirit faleth; Hide not They face from me; Lest I become like them that go down into the pit. Cause me to hear Thy lovingkindness in the morning, For in Thee do I trust; Cause me to know the way wherein I should walk, For unto Thee have I lifted up my soul. Deliver me from mine enemies, O Lord; With Thee have I hidden myself; Team me to do Thy will, For Thou Art my G-d.
143:11 - In Thy righteousness bring my soul out of trouble. And in Thy mercy cut off mine enemies, And destroy all them that harass my soul; For I am Thy servant.
I could have become bitter, angry and walked away from G-d. But G-d knew I would seek him out and has blessed me for my obedience. I don't take this lightly. I know where my blessings come from and my strength to move forward everyday.
145:19 He will fulfil the desire of them that fear Him; He also will hear their cry, and will save them.
Mark, should you happen to read this, I was wondering what the differences between the psalms and proverbs are? I can't quite put my finger on the differences.
The word psalm comes from a Greek word that means "to play on a stringed instrument." The Psalms in the bible are worship songs, praise songs and songs that express a cry for help or prayers set to music.
Proverbs are sayings that impart wisdom.
Neither word is inherently biblical nor Hebrew in origin.
I don't think I have ever posted to your thread, but I have always been touched by your story. I just wanted to let you know that me and I am sure many others, have you in our thoughts and prayers. I am so happy for you that your situation is changing.
A conversation is just that. Don't bank on anything. Keep following God and let h go.
He's not back. He's not doing the work needed to come back. Consider him still toxic until....he earns even a smattering of respect.
I've been there. I've sat in the counselor's office and heard x ask for another chance but I never saw him do the work. I guess I'm being a naysayer because I've ridden the hope roller coaster. I know how is stinks.
You are indeed a new woman who continues to amaze me. Keep up the great work. Keep focus on you and on what G-d wants for you. Everything else will fall into place when, where, and how it should.
Happy Pesach Mojo, how the heck are you? I miss you so much. Tell us how you are.
Bugs m'lady. Sounds like life is proceeding along and you are right in the thick of it. Good for you. I wasn't kidding when I said once, WWBD is how I look at things that happen. I draw so much comfort from your walk in this. You had shown me what a true GODDESS is and DOES and I thank you.
I'm glad you all like the new name. I felt it was time.
Cinders, I am NOT getting my hopes up. I'm not making any more of this than what is simply was ONE MOMENT, ONE TINY CONVERSATION. You at least got a request to get a chance. I haven't even gotten that. I've gotten one compliment and one mention of action. Did he do it, don't know. The check was posted on Monday so he didn't have any impact. I'm still behind a month and my bills. Well I do what I can and call it good.
His heart is hardened for whatever reasons that are his. I don't make any assumptions of knowing what he thinks. That's because I don't know this man.
Chag Sameach Mark, Dayenu.
Its so weird what are the littlest triggers. I used to have 25 friends over for the first night seder, where my husband was at the head of the table and led the seder. This year I probably won't even make one because of schedules. I did go to the store and pick up some cheap matzah and other stuff, so I am good to go on food. Plus I do get to make the charoset and matzah ball soup for my temple's seder tomorrow night. So at least that need is covered. LOL
My heart is restless tonight and I'm working through some icky stuff for myself so I can't really sleep. I got tired of tossing and turning and went on my work email and posted on the thread on MB sisterhood a lovely letter.
It's weird, I just had this thought that I feel like a man in braveheart who kept getting hit and kept standing up and was finally victorious. I just don't know when that victory comes or what that victory will be about.
Shabbat Shalom and Happy almost Weekend everyone....
Queenie, hugs to you. Wanted to say Happy Passover. A very good friend from highschool that I have known forever went in for surgery for breast cancer and she is home now getting ready for the chemo/radiation and all she could talk about was how she missed Passover and all the food she would make. She actually made me laugh. Amazing the strength of people in times of crisis. Even though our WH are messed up we have our health and we have support.
I'm glad you stopped by. The urge to do something bug is getting the better of me. I wanted to bring WH some soup and charoset along with a box of matzah and macaroons, but I called Looking4 and she helped me see the downside to it.
UGH... I do better when I work during the day, vs too much time on my hands.
love the new name LOL... I was so pleased to hear that WH had left OW....I always remember you constantly telling me "that we don't know whats happening on the other side'....I keep you in my prayers...
I understand your pain when the WH has time for the kids and not you.... Hang in there,its not over yet!!!
Its awesome to see you. I was just thinking about you the other night. How are you?
I don't know what happened over there except he says he couldn't live the mistake anymore. Now since he was paying all the bills, she left. I am curious if she has found another sugar daddy, but who knows. :crosseyedcrazy:
I'm doing ok.... I don't have much contact with him excwpt to do with the kids...the boys say he is stressed about money....
I was doing really well untill a few days ago.My DS19 has decided to work with his dad in the shop.This means he won't be doing nature conservation which was his passion.He is moving in with his dad today...as its closer to the shop. I was devestated..I feel as though he has destroyed our marriage and now his seperating the boys too. DS19 says he just wants to try working with his dad.Another big thing drawing him there is that his dad lives 2 roads away from his girlfriend!!
I have told my X that I would still take him back and that I pray for him...I got no comment....
Anyway,I follow "charlynne cares" and her ways....
I don't post anymore cos I really don't have anything to report...also, I don't think it would be good of me to bad mouth my X everytime he does something stupid or hurtful...
If my situation changes I will definitely be back here.... Please know that I always check in on you and am praying for you.... To cut costs,I don't have internet access at home anymore only at work.Its difficult to log on in my normal hours so I will check in when I'm working extra shifts.
Oh, yesterday I had a car accident near my X's house, as I had fetched my boys..A tourist in front of me decided to come to a sudden holt in a circle!!!This was his second accident while holidaying here!! DS19 automatically phoned his dad who came in a split second.The old husband was back...caring and helpful....offered to get the broken part (front light cover) for me... he phoned later to see if we were ok too. We had a good chat and he is coming to look at my pool as I have a leak somewhere.
I suppose a bit of plan A can't harm hey!!! I am still hurting though .... Its all in Gods Hands now.... Stay well.....
Hi Queenie, well Easter is over. It was good having my neighbors over but it really had some rough patches. My friend is doing good and trying to stay positive.
I, like you, wanted to do something for WH also. Bring him some lasagna at work tomorrow - something-- but the safest route it to do nothing. I struggle every day with this. I keep forgetting he is an alien. I keep looking for my old H. Wonder if he will ever surface again.
Hopenpray, I also read charleynecares. It keeps me going some days and I pray for that type of faith.
Hopenpray, I'm so glad you gave me an update. I think about you so often and miss you so very much. We have truly been through alot together. We haven't gotten what we wanted, but for whatever reason we remain faithful to G-d. And this is a good thing.
{{{{{{{{{{HOPE3343}}}}}}}}}}}} I'm so sorry you are having a bad day. I have to admit, I spent most of the day in a very bad way, woke up at 6 am, cried for almost two hours, went back to bed, woke up at noon and basically can't get out of my funk.
I have spent almost the entire afternoon reading SVT's thread and honestly I get sick to my stomach when I think about the pain that people feel and go through. And yes, I'm so jealous. It seems that no matter how hard I pray and hope, I'm not going to get that chance to make life better for my H.
I too subscribe to Charlene Cares and I struggle horribly wondering if shutting him off is the best thing to do. I don't honestly know. Today when I came home from my AA meeting I thought maybe I should just give up and be friends with him.
How frickin pitiful that I am willing to get any scrape from him. I don't know why, but I am. I am a fighter, I'm a survivor, I've been at this for almost two years and at least three years WH hasn't met any of MY needs and here I am at square one, weakened in heart and breaking inside because I miss the man I love.
Mimi doesn't come around here much anymore. I promised her once I wouldn't do anything to myself. I honestly pray to G-d that I don't. I'm so tired of missing him. I'm so tired of hoping for what.... I'm so sorry everyone. I have really tried to become that person you all believed existed but today, I'm beaten. I want it to end. The pain in my heart, the sadness in my soul. I almost wish I don't wake up anymore. Then G-d can give me the answers that I so desperately want.
But then I remember my babies, even though they are teenager monsters today and I just can't give up on them until they are old enough to be without me.
I'm so angry at myself. Vladi, please don't take any shots at me, I'm not in the frame of mind. I can't shake this awful feeling that WH is with OW. Johnstwin, told me to give my love to G-d as a sacrifice and to hold it and cherish it and to prepare me for what he needs. I'm sure I'll bounce back. I'm just down. Holidays are so hard for me. Why did G-d make me feel. Why can't I just stop feeling...
No advice... I haven't read your whole thread... just
{{{{{{{{{{{{Queenie}}}}}}}}}}}
Don't give up on God... he always shows... sometimes not until the 11th hour though... I will add you to my prayers tonight... and right now.. ALMIGHTY GOD... Please come to Queenie. Send the Holy Spirit to calm her and comfort her...
You can fix her marriage Lord... it would be NOTHING for you....She has fought the fight for so long Lord God...she is weary...carry her Lord...Make what is wrong right again...
But Lord... we offer this Marriage up to YOUR wisdom LORD and to YOUR time... But GOD.. please come quickly...Please come quickly... CRUSH THE ENEMY LORD CRUSH HIM GOD Father and cast his influence over this marriage into the sea.... In Jesus' MIGHTY name we pray.....
So did I when I first got here... It was the only name I could think of... God came... and he pulled me out of the dark hole you are in...he will come for you. "Be Still and Know.." HE is GOD....
So did I when I first got here... It was the only name I could think of... God came... and he pulled me out of the dark hole you are in...he will come for you. "Be Still and Know.." HE is GOD....
From where I started I do know this. But today, the dark hole is just more overwhelming than normal. But I have learned it's like a wave, it just comes in and will go back out.
You haven't been here in a long time. What brought you back? Are you ok?
I knew that you knew...We all need the reminder once in a while...
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You haven't been here in a long time. What brought you back? Are you ok?
Yes thanks for asking....I lurk all the time...An old friend called me and asked me to come back to help him...then I ran into ANOTHER one Gabreille and she sent me over to Hope... and then you know.. It's hard to walk away from people in THIS pain...
So many people helped me...I don't what I would have done without this place... I have to try and give back...
I'm better than I've been and worst than I've been... But NEVER closer to God and THAT makes me SAFER than I've EVER been....and way more at peace than I ever thought I could be.... I am amazed every single day at his power and Glory....
I used to hate thunder and lightning... Now... I just think.... Yeah... ah huh... that's how mighty OUR God is... ... and if you saw it from outer space... it would only look like a flicker.....in the Immense work of his hands....
Hope you are OK soon... GOoD Luck and Prayers Frank
Your spirit and heart is awesome to have around. Thank you. I usually am in a better place and my faith has gotten me this far. I too have found my relationship with G-d and continue to work on that relationship, but it just dawned on me that maybe I am working on the wrong one tonight.
I'm concentrating on WH and what isn't, rather than G-d and what is.
I will be ok, because your spirit reminded me of what's most important. I hope I am blessed to talk to you again and you can see that really I am a survivor and not just feeling sorry for myself...
Sweet dreams... be well.. and know that you are G-ds greatest miracle.
Jeremiah 29:11-13 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. And ye shall call upon me, and go, and pray unto Me, and I will harken unto you. And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart.
Proverbs 3:25-26 Be not afraid of sudden terror; Neither of the destruction of the wicked, when it cometh; For the Lord will be thy confidence, and will keep thy foot from being caught.
Psalm 143 Oh Lord, hear my prayer, give ear to my supplications. For the enemy hath persectued my soul. He hath crushed my life down to the ground. Answer me speedily my Lord, for my spirit faileth. Hide not thy face from me. Lest I become like them that go down into the pit. Cause me to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning. For in Thee do I trust; Cause me to know the way where in I should walk. For nto Thee have I lifted up my soul. Deliver me from my enemies, Oh Lord. Teach me to do Thy will, For Thou art my G-d. In thy righteousness bring my soul out of trouble, And in Thy mercy cut off my enemies, And destroy them all that harass my soul. For I am Thy servant.
And.... G-d transformed skinsgal into Queenie. She was created out of the ashes of pure destruction forever changed internally, into the loving, creative, resourceful, accepting, amazing woman and it was because G-d planned it to be this way.
Thanks for all the kind words... I really needed to hear them... you have no idea... I've been thinking of leaving here too... because of all the 2x4s I get whenever I post what I believe to be kinder ways to battle this.... It's just who God leads me to be.. I mean we are to defeat hate with love right? Not hate with more hate...
Anyway..I'm tired.. all those scripture I needed too... Psalm 143... That blew my mind... it has a huge significance to me... and until you posted it... I never realized it!! I'll explain another time... I know you are a surviver Queenie... so am I but I think when we get weak.. as we all do... we are closer to God because NEED him and ONLY his words can comfort us... We are sooo lucky we can draw strength form his word...not only Harley's..
Well... better go before I wake up with my face on the keyboard.. Thanks... I'm glad I ran into you on Hope's post...God had something in mind...Boy.. he is a wonder....
Frank
Oh... I almost forgot... why do you type G-d instead of GOD? Same amount of keystrokes???
I know this is not the MB way.....but Gods Way....
I feel I have to post this to you this morning...
I truely feel plan B goes against Gods WAY....I'm not saying we must be doormats for waywards to trample all over us,only that we must walk in Faith...show LOVE to them..put out that olive branch..don't let our pride stand in the way....let our ACTIONS speak FAITH and LOVE...
Whats the point of PRAYING and FASTING and asking GOD to restore our marriages when we won't step out the boat and allow God to work through us? I know its hard...we must humble ourselves and show them through our ACTIONS that we love them and have forgiven them...knowing that they might be nasty and hurtful in their retaliation....it never stopped Jesus???
Some might say that they can't handle the "abuse of words'...thats where ones Faith steps in...believe in Gods mighty power...don't just read it....act it out.....take the bull by the horns so to speak!!
How are you going to get back together with your WH by not communicating? Yes,you wrote the letter..but men are silly sometimes,his most probably forgotten about it by now!!
Queenie, this is just my opinion and I most probably am taking a risk posting it on this forum,but I love you and I want the best for you...to recover your marriage..now step out in Faith...God will never leave you nor forsake you....BELIEVE...
Let God use you...He has moulded you into a beautiful woman of faith,now let Him use you to show your hubbie what can be accomplished together in LOVE and FAITH....NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD.....
The question is ...do you truely believe that scripture.....???
Don't be afraid...He is walking right beside you always....
But h&p, what about the times God turned his back on the Israelites when they did not follow him. Even Jesus of Nazareth advised shaking the dirt from your shoes when dealing with some people.
What about Jeremiah 8 and Amos 2? What about the promises in Isaiah 54?
Queenie, I feel the black hole, I know the depths it will bring you down. I have been in it and some days you don't feel like coming out of it.
When you stay in bed and not want to get up...I understand. It was a trigger for me. I wanted to curl up in that fetal position and never come out of it. I did not think about my family, my friends anyone but the loss of my WH. That is when Satan and his whispers would surround me. "Give up; there is nothing left for you in this world; you are alone"...it goes on and on in our heads. I almost gave in..ALMOST. But I also learned to reach out. I come here and put my sorrows, my pain, my insecurities.
But then a miracle happens. People respond. They get it...they understand. I start to feel faith again. I feel God's arms around me again holding me safe from the free fall. People like you, T2L, Gabby, Holyheart, Pleasehelp, Gabby, SIHW, cat, the list goes on and on. The ones that come running when they realize we are in trouble.
Then there are the days when we feel stronger, we actually have a good day -- that is the time we try and give back. I am no vet and have not had success yet in trying to reconcile my M but I try to help. I try to let others know that I understand like these wonderful people helped me. Look at all the people who still lurk on these boards. I used to wonder why they still come here years later but don't you know they are our angels, our prayer warriors, they are helping us fight the good fight.
No matter what happens in our situations we can count on each other. I used to think that I stand for my marriage alone right now. Others are standing with me. We might pass each other on the street and never recognize each other but here we know each other better than our best friends.
Queenie, whatever you need let me know. We can talk offline, whatever. Strength comes in numbers.
You betcha I’m hanging on until Dr. Smartie gets here. I can’t wait. I only wish you were joining us as well. We would have a blast. How are you doing? How is babychai doing?
Hopenpray, thank you so much for your honesty and candid response. I have to admit, I totally get what you are saying and for most people I wouldn’t disagree with you at all. BUT, I know my journey, I know why this was happening and a very wise friend put her thoughts to me this way….."The correct action for someone who believes in God is to trust Him to do what needs to be done." I have to TRUST G-d…..
And…. The thing is, you aren't doing a Plan B as a punishment. You are doing it to protect the love you have for WH. You are also doing it to "give" him what he wanted-his freedom. He is getting the consequences of his "desires" and choices. You don't want to rescue him because then you aren't really letting God the work God needs to do with WH. WH needs this time to truly feel the depth of the consequences of his choices. And, if you do believe that nothing is impossible for God, then you let God be the one to make this happen.
You see, I truly understand how we came to this place. We were both alcoholics slowly dying a dry drunk death and G-d had had enough. I love my husband beyond words can express, and the “old” me would have to fix this or make it better. Queenie, needs to learn from her mistakes and as hard as it is, and as much as I wish it could be different, leaving WH alone until he reaches out to me is the ONLY WAY.
I’ve have my chances of showing him I am loving, caring and willing to commit to a new marriage. He isn’t a moron, he is just stubborn and sick in spirit. He has HIS right to HIS journey and for me to interfere is playing G-d again.
What my special friend told me….I know it's hard and I know you love WH, but now is the time to give that love to God as a sacrifice of your faith in Him, and let Him do what needs to be done.
And finally….It's hard to be still and let God be God. But that's what He asks of us. Hope, how can I possibly deny G-d that….. He has brought me so much in my life. He’ll bring me out of the woods with the flashlight that I keep on him to show me the way.
Please Help, I am Jewish and as a sign of respect I don’t write out the full name of G-d. There are many other reasons, but that is most simplistic for me to explain.
Cinderella, I am touched and honored you included me in on your friends hardship. You can trust I have added her in my daily prayers and will include her in our temple’s mi’sheberach. If I get the opportunity to share her plight with friends and a request for prayer I shall do that as well. My heart just breaks for her.
Hey Lookin, I got your message. I am limited on my phone minutes so I have to wait until later or the weekend to call. How was your weekend? You doing ok?
G-d bless you, Queenie. I knew I could count on you. I dare not ask any Jewish people around here. The woman is so traumatized. She is embarrassed. Bless her heart! I knew, just knew, you would be helpful!
G-d bless you, Queenie. I knew I could count on you. I dare not ask any Jewish people around here. The woman is so traumatized. She is embarrassed. Bless her heart! I knew, just knew, you would be helpful!
G-d blesses all of us who fight for him. And you are at the TOP of the list like so many other people on her.
Please Help, I am Jewish and as a sign of respect I don’t write out the full name of G-d. There are many other reasons, but that is most simplistic for me to explain.
Hmmm, I'll have to ponder that..as you might have guessed I'm all about respecting him... I remember a Bible study where I argued against the fact that saying OMG was very disrepectful... I meant when I heard terrible news like the death of a child.. I would just blurt it out...
I was a few miles back on my "walk" at the time and I don't say it anymore.
I'm still struggling with a replacement though... I mean after hearing about the death of a child from a parent.. "Oh my gosh" Just doesn't cut it you know? any ideas? I need help with this.. I really do because I won't go back to OMG and I fell heartless with my responses..
Oh my Gosh.... Oh my word... Oh my... Oh my my...?? They are all lame for me... (disclaimer..I meant for me...this is in no way an insult to anyone that uses any of the above :))
Anyone?
So as I ponder if this is what I want for myself I PROMISE to try and remember when on YOUR post out of respect for you to say....
G-D Bless.... Frank
P.S. Boy... doesn't quite jump off the keyboard quite yet
Maybe I'll try G^D bless instead... since it is pointing UP!!
That feels a little better... But here... G-D bless for you...
Oh Frank, please don't feel like you need to write out G-d my way. If you could only understand how accepting and how far my walk with G-d has been you would truly know from my heart that I want you to be more comfortable talking about HIM your way. It means no disrespect for me at all. In fact, I have learned to embrace all our differences and realize how important relationships especially our own personal one with G-d is.
Cinderella, this was on my email from work. Please use it if you can.
------------------------------------------------- MountainWings A MountainWings Moment #9104 Wings Over The Mountains of Life -------------------------------------------------
Please Read if YOU Need Prayer ===============================
Do you or someone who you care about need prayer?
The ARK of Salvation, the Christian church in Atlanta, GA. pastored by Nathaniel Bronner Jr., the writer of MountainWings, will be holding a 24 Hour non-stop Easter Week Sabbath Power Prayer Vigil beginning Friday, April 17, 2009 at sunset.
MountainWings receives prayer requests 24 hours a day from around the world. Each prayer request is prayed over individually after receiving it.
On April 17th, three prayer teams from The ARK of Salvation, each team led by one of the ministers of Brothers of The WORD, will pray non-stop for eight hours each.
The prayer requests received at MountainWings each week are a thick stack. Each is individually prayed for, but these 24 hours will have a special anointing and prayer intensity.
If you have a need and prayer request for yourself or another, we invite you to submit your prayer request by simply going to MountainWings.com and clicking "Prayer Request."
There is no cost or donation required, only your sincere desire for a change and the effort to write and submit your request.
We invite you to pray along with us.
The presiding ministers of each eight hour segment: Friday April 17, 8PM to 4AM - Rev. C. Elijah Bronner Saturday April 18, 4AM to Noon - Rev. Nathaniel Bronner Jr. Saturday April 18, Noon to 8PM - Rev. James Bronner
All prayer requests submitted from today through 6 PM EST Friday April 17th will be included in the Prayer Vigil.
To submit a Prayer Request to be included in this time of power, anointing, and healing, go now to MountainWings.com and click "Prayer Request" or click the link below.
Here are some other thoughts - as given to me directly by an inspired individual - who told me God wanted to reach my husband - and I kept getting in the way. That's fine only if I thought I could do better or was more powerful than God...
Plan B was His way of moving me out of His way to reach my husband.
I am so very grateful for Plan B. I don't talk about it much as it was part of a violent blow up in our marriage over his addiction and my FOO issues. I left the home with our son that night - police ordered to stay away and I just let it keep going for about six months - filled out the paper work for divorce but had no money to file. That Plan B was interrupted only during meetings with our minister or marriage counselor, during which sessions in the first few months, I would listen, then quietly state that I didn't need to be married that badly (I wasn't going back to the old marriage. I was done. I knew I deserved to be treated better.)
No more rescuing from the pain of his consequences. No more getting in God's way. And definitely no more enabling.
I got out of God's way. He worked on my husband. And is still working on my husband.
I like what God has done with my husband much better than what puny efforts I could do!
Plan B has it's place. Read Ecclesiastes 3 some time if you doubt. (There are New Testament passages that also talk about cutting off a limb or putting out an eye that offend thee - consider what kind of Plan B instructions these might be.)
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1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Queen - I don't post much but I read all the time. Your faith is bringing about miracles in you, regardless of what happens with your WH - continue in your walk, is about all I can say!
Hey Lookin, I got your message. I am limited on my phone minutes so I have to wait until later or the weekend to call. How was your weekend? You doing ok?
My weekend was hard, eye-opening, and good. You can get the gory (sp?) details on my thread. But surprisingly? I am okay. Actually doing pretty well as clarity is unfolding more and more.
You are such a beacon for many of us here, Queenie. Even when you think you are weak, you are strong. You have so much wisdom and kindness. Thank you for sharing you with us.
Your faith is bringing about miracles in you, regardless of what happens with your WH - continue in your walk, is about all I can say!
Thank you Kayla, I respect your so much and try to read whenever you respond to others. Your wisdom and ability to see the bigger picture helps me so much.
You are so right. Stay out of G-ds way and let him perform the miracles.
Better grab a cup o' java to get through it. And please be very straight-forward with your comments there. Don't hold back because I want to know where I'm messing up.
Oh Frank, please don't feel like you need to write out G-d my way. If you could only understand how accepting and how far my walk with G-d has been you would truly know from my heart that I want you to be more comfortable talking about HIM your way. It means no disrespect for me at all. In fact, I have learned to embrace all our differences and realize how important relationships especially our own personal one with G-d is.
Ok then I'm going with G^D until I study if it is disrespectful to G^D to tyoe the whole name.... What about the OMG thing? Any help/ideas there?
Please note: This page contains the Name of God. If you print it out, please treat it with appropriate respect.
The Significance of Names In Jewish thought, a name is not merely an arbitrary designation, a random combination of sounds. The name conveys the nature and essence of the thing named. It represents the history and reputation of the being named.
This is not as strange or unfamiliar a concept as it may seem at first glance. In English, we often refer to a person's reputation as his "good name." When a company is sold, one thing that may be sold is the company's "good will," that is, the right to use the company's name. The Hebrew concept of a name is very similar to these ideas.
An example of this usage occurs in Ex. 3:13-22: Moses asks God what His "name" is. Moses is not asking "what should I call you;" rather, he is asking "who are you; what are you like; what have you done." That is clear from God's response. God replies that He is eternal, that He is the God of our ancestors, that He has seen our affliction and will redeem us from bondage.
Another example of this usage is the concepts of chillul Ha-Shem and kiddush Ha-Shem. An act that causes God or Judaism to come into disrespect or a commandment to be disobeyed is often referred to as "chillul Ha-Shem," profanation of The Name. Clearly, we are not talking about a harm done to a word; we are talking about harm to a reputation. Likewise, any deed that increases the respect accorded to God or Judaism is referred to as "kiddush Ha-Shem," sanctification of The Name.
Because a name represents the reputation of the thing named, a name should be treated with the same respect as the thing's reputation. For this reason, God's Names, in all of their forms, are treated with enormous respect and reverence in Judaism.
The Names of God I have often heard people refer to the Judeo-Christian God as "the nameless God" to contrast our God with the ancient pagan gods. I always found this odd, because Judaism clearly recognizes the existence of a Name for God; in fact, we have many Names for God.
The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Hei-Vav-Hei (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Hei-Yod-Hei (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Hei), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Hei-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord").
The first Name used for God in scripture is Elohim. In form, the word is a masculine plural of a word that looks feminine in the singular (Eloha). The same word (or, according to Rambam, a homonym of it) is used to refer to princes, judges, other gods, and other powerful beings. This Name is used in scripture when emphasizing God's might, His creative power, and his attributes of justice and rulership. Variations on this name include El, Eloha, Elohai (my God) and Elohaynu (our God).
God is also known as El Shaddai. This Name is usually translated as "God Almighty," however, the derivation of the word "Shaddai" is not known. According to some views, it is derived from the root meaning "to heap benefits." According a Midrash, it means, "The One who said 'dai'" ("dai" meaning enough or sufficient) and comes from the fact that when God created the universe, it expanded until He said "DAI!" (perhaps the first recorded theory of an expanding universe?). The name Shaddai is the one written on the mezuzah scroll. Some note that Shaddai is an acronym of Shomer Daltot Yisrael, Guardian of the Doors of Israel.
Another significant Name of God is YHVH Tzva'ot. This Name is normally translated as "Lord of Hosts." The word "tzva'ot" means "hosts" in the sense of a military grouping or an organized array. The Name refers to God's leadership and sovereignty. Interestingly, this Name is rarely used in scripture. It never appears in the Torah (i.e., the first five books). It appears primarily in the prophetic books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi, as well as many times in the Psalms.
Writing the Name of God Jews do not casually write any Name of God. This practice does not come from the commandment not to take the Lord's Name in vain, as many suppose. In Jewish thought, that commandment refers solely to oath-taking, and is a prohibition against swearing by God's Name falsely or frivolously (the word normally translated as "in vain" literally means "for falsehood").
Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing a Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better.
The commandment not to erase or deface the name of God comes from Deut. 12:3. In that passage, the people are commanded that when they take over the promised land, they should destroy all things related to the idolatrous religions of that region, and should utterly destroy the names of the local deities. Immediately afterwards, we are commanded not to do the same to our God. From this, the rabbis inferred that we are commanded not to destroy any holy thing, and not to erase or deface a Name of God.
It is worth noting that this prohibition against erasing or defacing Names of God applies only to Names that are written in some kind of permanent form, and recent rabbinical decisions have held that writing on a computer is not a permanent form, thus it is not a violation to type God's Name into a computer and then backspace over it or cut and paste it, or copy and delete files with God's Name in them. However, once you print the document out, it becomes a permanent form. That is why observant Jews avoid writing a Name of God on web sites like this one or in newsgroup messages: because there is a risk that someone else will print it out and deface it.
Normally, we avoid writing the Name by substituting letters or syllables, for example, writing "G-d" instead of "God." In addition, the number 15, which would ordinarily be written in Hebrew as Yod-Hei (10-5), is normally written as Teit-Vav (9-6), because Yod-Hei is a Name. See Hebrew Alphabet for more information about using letters as numerals.
Pronouncing the Name of God Nothing in the Torah prohibits a person from pronouncing the Name of God. Indeed, it is evident from scripture that God's Name was pronounced routinely. Many common Hebrew names contain "Yah" or "Yahu," part of God's four-letter Name. The Name was pronounced as part of daily services in the Temple.
The Mishnah confirms that there was no prohibition against pronouncing The Name in ancient times. In fact, the Mishnah recommends using God's Name as a routine greeting to a fellow Jew. Berakhot 9:5. However, by the time of the Talmud, it was the custom to use substitute Names for God. Some rabbis asserted that a person who pronounces YHVH according to its letters (instead of using a substitute) has no place in the World to Come, and should be put to death. Instead of pronouncing the four-letter Name, we usually substitute the Name "Adonai," or simply say "Ha-Shem" (lit. The Name).
Although the prohibition on pronunciation applies only to the four-letter Name, Jews customarily do not pronounce any of God's many Names except in prayer or study. The usual practice is to substitute letters or syllables, so that Adonai becomes Adoshem or Ha-Shem, Elohaynu and Elohim become Elokaynu and Elokim, etc.
With the Temple destroyed and the prohibition on pronouncing The Name outside of the Temple, pronunciation of the Name fell into disuse. Scholars passed down knowledge of the correct pronunciation of YHVH for many generations, but eventually the correct pronunciation was lost, and we no longer know it with any certainty. We do not know what vowels were used, or even whether the Vav in the Name was a vowel or a consonant. See Hebrew Alphabet for more information about the difficulties in pronouncing Hebrew. Some religious scholars suggest that the Name was pronounced "Yahweh," but others do not find this pronunciation particularly persuasive.
Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH, and the name stuck.
Ok, here's my take. I'm not really good on the ten commandments, but I'm getting better. I got the Thou shall not commit adultery down pretty good. But isn't there the one where thou shall not take the lord's name in vein.
Judaism 101 has this... 3. Prohibition of Oaths This category is derived from Ex. 20:7, beginning, "You shall not take the name of the L-rd your G-d in vain..." This includes prohibitions against perjury, breaking or delaying the performance of vows or promises, and speaking G-d's name or swearing unnecessarily.
For me personally and it's something I have to work on daily... OMG is taking the lord's name in vain.... Here is Meriam-Websters take...1: having no real value : idle , worthless <vain pretensions> 2: marked by futility or ineffectualness : unsuccessful , useless <vain efforts to escape> 3archaic : foolish , silly
Great! Thanks a lot!!... I'll have to read it when I get up.. I agree it is taking his name in vain when we say OMG.. I need a better sayig than "Oh my Gosh.." to replace it though I've been searching for YEARS!!
G-night, sleet tight... and pray for G-ds will to be in working in your life.
Searching for Years.... Well since I have free time on my hands while G-d works on my husband, let's see if we can't come up with something to satisfy you.
Talk to you soon new friend. Thank you for your spirit. It is very calming to me. There were two others on here, besides Mark who are so good at calming me, TMTS, and Jamesus. They both are busy building their lives and I miss them much, so I'm glad to have someone else to speak with.
I need a better sayig than "Oh my Gosh.." to replace it though I've been searching for YEARS!!
I too, don't use God's name in vain or even "OMG"! I prefer OMGoodness if I must. It's difficult teaching my kids it's unacceptable to me when they hear it everywhere on TV, including young-themed shows.
But if you're in a pinch, you can borrow some of my replacements. Of course what I use depends on if it's a moment of anger, disbelief, euphoria, or stupidity: Holy moly Jimminy Crickinicks Un-flippin-believable Are you kidding me? Yee-haw! Dang-tootin'! Oh no! Oh my goodness Seriously? No freakin' way
Of course there's always the straight up "sh**!" which can take on different meanings too.
I hope I didn't offend you, PH, or Queenie by jumping in here. But I like putting creativity to the test by way of expression. Sometimes throwing out something completely unexpected adds true-er meaning to what you're expressing because it's more noticable than the common Oh my G... It catches people off guard so that they might pause a moment to reflect on the extreme of the moment -- whether that extreme be good or bad.
And I find nothing wrong with oh my gosh. I find it respectful while still getting a point across. But maybe that's just me.
You, too, Queenie. Have a great weekend. And perhaps do something to pamper you. I had a manicure today. Not something planned -- just a spur of the moment indulgence. And I'm happy I did. I'm really trying to embrace the "get a life" motto.
Sooo.....celebrate Queenie this weekend!!! And I'll celebrate Holyheart.
Great idea Holy. I'll check it out and see if my budget will allow for it. If not, then I can just celebrate my daughter's birthday and know that was more important.
Yes, Verve, where is the woman when you need her for Goddess advice. I miss ya Mimi girl... so very much.
No sir Mark, I am still the Mrs...., and love Queenie. I read somewhere on here yesterday and have decided I won't be the one to end my marriage. I still have lots to learn about myself and there is NO NEED to jump to action. What plans do you have this weekend?
The sun is out and so will my body be later on this morning. Smartie Pants is coming for a visit next week so I am in cleaning mode.
It was supposed to be a pun... Miss Adventures = misadventures
My wife and I are going to our vacation cabin tonight when I get off work. I was there last weekend (Sunday night) but didn't get much done due to the rain and snow we had. I have Monday off work (as of right now ) and she is taking the day off so we can spend it together. We both have someone taking care of our parts of the media stuff at church tomorrow so we are taking advantage of that to get away for a couple of days.
It was supposed to be a pun... Miss Adventures = misadventures
:crosseyedcrazy: And here you thought I was up on the world. LOL
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My wife and I are going to our vacation cabin tonight when I get off work. I was there last weekend (Sunday night) but didn't get much done due to the rain and snow we had. I have Monday off work (as of right now ) and she is taking the day off so we can spend it together. We both have someone taking care of our parts of the media stuff at church tomorrow so we are taking advantage of that to get away for a couple of days.
You deserve this break. Have a blast when you FINALLY get on your way. How's the weather looking for you?
Yesterday was 70 with bright sunshine. Today it is 70 with high thin clouds. Tomorrow it is supposed to be 60s and raining and Monday it is going to rain off and on with highs about 50 or so... Typical for a day off I guess...
Checking in from Ohio with 74 and sunny. Mark, I believe you are close to me, so we tend to have similar weather patterns.
Queenie, I so wish that I could come with Smartie. Maybe you could call WH for me and ask if he will pay for my trip. Somehow, I don't believe that he would see the humor in that.
Anyway, I hope you two have a great time. Take pictures to send to me!!! And call me!!!
Well, maybe we're on to something here. I'll call yours and you can call mine. We can let them have it with both barrels. I'd love to tell your WH what a scum sucking pig of a dog he is. Heck, I'd like to tell my own WH the same thing, but that would be LB'ing. Not the MB way. MB, however, says nothing about LB'ing someone else's WH now does it?
I received this poem from my business associate whose daughter write it for a Holocaust Symposium. She is in 8th grade.
Juden Verboten By: H M
How can it be that some don’t know Of the Holocaust 70 years ago? The inhumane disgusting crimes That the Nazis committed so many times; How wicked they were, putting Gentiles to shame They said Jews were criminals, always to blame.
Wouldn’t you want your own beliefs? The freedom to live them, without any grief? A life without racism, torture, or hate, No death camps or ghettos, but now its too late. The horrible things that Hitler did, The unthinkable pain, and just to get rid Of the peaceful Jewish people; it’s sad Don’t just nod and say it’s too bad.
The Holocaust you mustn’t forget, Nor ignore, discount, overlook or let People say that it didn’t take place, For I see the pain in my Baba’s face. In Auschwitz her youngest brother was gassed, He was only twenty when he had passed.
Forced from their homes people fled, Some not so lucky were shot in bed. Hitler decided once he’s done with the Jews, To pick on the rest, so many to choose! Gypsies, the elderly, babies and twins, When Hitler strikes, nobody wins.
The German army stole so many lives, And for what reason? What was the prize? To see the tears in peoples’ eyes, To gain more power, to hear their cries? You see how horrible all this was? The hatred, the prejudice and just because The Nazis and others were unable to see, That the Jewish people are like you and me.
They shouldn’t have suffered, what did they do? Remember that Jesus was Jewish too. Perhaps His death meant so much more, To forgive what would happen in the Second World War. “Blessed are those who suffer from hate, Their reward in heaven shall be great.”
That tragic time has affected my life, I’m so grateful to live without cruelty or strife. Do not think this is all in the past, If you see bullying, please end it fast. Holocaust survivors still hurt today, Their loved ones murdered then tossed away. Don’t say, “That’s too bad, but I’m no Jew,” It could have been anyone…yes, even you.
SmartiePants is on her way to Wash. State and the weekend to be with ME... woo hoo.... Happy Dance. I really need to find out how she got her name. She was the very first person I talked to from MB.
We are planning to go to Bainbridge Island tomorrow and make a day of it. Included in the sojourn was my YS, and OS and his awesome GF. Tomorrow night, my YS's lacrosse game is on the island and so I thought it would be a great way to spend the day exploring the PNW.
Well.... YS got himself ejected out of his game last night. As a consequence he doesn't get to play. Sometimes..... the testosterone in them just amazes me. So, looks like we are going to have a fabulocity day exploring with my kids, girlfriend, and Smartie and Me. And then we get to top it off by freezing out butts off as we watch a game that WON'T include my son. No attitude there....
Oh yes, and as for the game last night, they won 11-3. Probably the only game that they will win this year, as they suck BAD..... In fact.... it could be y games from here on out. However, it was 70 plus degrees on Tuesday and as I sat at the game last night it was snowing.
So... here I sit with my YS alone, because my OS has left my home. Yes, lucky me. He came home screaming that he was just going to quit his job. Does he have another one in it's place. OH NO...
But he doesn't LIKE his job. Well to be honest, he pushed me just a little too far this time. I called him a spoiled brat and told him that he was 19 years old and didn't go to school and wasn't going to just sit around the house for the next 4 months until he went away to the navy.
He said the ONLY reason I wanted him to keep his job was the for money. I agreed because it was the truth. In two weeks when he runs out of money and wants to borrow some for this and that. I won't have the chutzpah to tell him no. So, he has left. Gave me his cell phone, and left the keys to the car.
I'm not sure if I was right and I'm not sure if I was wrong. I just know that I'm sick to death of being talked to disrespectfully and that this is MY HOME and MY RULES. If he didn't like it, then he can leave. I love this child with all my heart, and if he believes he can have it better somewhere else, then my hat is off to him. But the reality is, he doesn't pay for car insurance, he doesn't really give me rent, he doesn't pay for his cell phone, he was giving me money back for the mercedes braking, but that's pretty much it.
In case you think I am this heartless witch. Trust me, my heart is crushed. This is my baby. I'm so confused. I wish I drank, I wish I could just run away and I certainly wish that I didn't have any feelings to feel.
What I will do is go seek G-d, ask him to take care of him and help me walk through this in a way that is helpful to me and my son and the younger one.
ITA! It IS hard putting your foot down, but it was the right thing to do. He probably expected you to chase him out the door telling him that you were sorry.
I've been through this with a couple of my kiddos and they survived. Funny thing, when I insisted they were able to get out there and fend for themselves. They have more respect for me AND for themselves.
Yes, I know and I remember. But dang... I miss you so much. You are absolutely beautiful and amazing. I love you dearly and am so grateful you are in my life.
Julius missing you too. He hasn't been the same since you left. I'll need money for his therapy on losses in life.
I didn't try and stop him. But I did tell him I loved him.
{{{{{{{{{{Queenie}}}}}}}} That's all we can do sometimes...
I remember these days They aren't easy... We forget how stressful those years were. He handled the stress inappropriately as we did once in a while...He'll apologize....You'll see..
I think God must see us this way sometimes.... Ungrateful...tantrum infested drama queens...
And then he steps in and calms the storm and we wonder how we ever doubted him.. and...so does he! LOL
I'm losing my spirit tonight. I'm tired and just wish I could stop the feelings.
Luna always puts her feelings down, not because they are permanent but as a way of working through them or leaving them. I'm so sad and tired. I'm tired of fighting. I have given G-d my love for my H as a sacrifice for my trust in him to move me forward.
I'm just feeling sorry for myself. I want a break from my kids and there isn't one to be had because they don't go anywhere. At least not in my heart. I want to sleep, I want to not wake up and I want to talk to G-d tomorrow and find out how was it supposed to end. Because I don't know if I can make it everyday.
I'll get out of my pity, I'll pick myself dust myself off, but I just want to stop the world for awhile and not participate.
I hope you all are doing a whole lot better than me.
Wow.. DOUBLE {{{{{{{{{{QUEENIE}}}}}}}}}} I know you're just venting but I didn't like the "I want not to wake up" part...
OK... Look... DON'T let the enemy steal your joy!! I suggest you go to the mountain top...find an AWESOME creation of your G-d and drink it in.... FEEL HIS POWER!! Stand in AWE of him....sometimes words aren't enough.. we have to WITNESS GOD.... FEEL HIS AWESOME POWER... and realize that wherever you go it is only a SPECK of his incredible creation.
YOU ARE AN AWESOME CREATON OF GOD QUEENIE... you mean a LOT to a LOT of people.... I know you are alright... but we want you to feel GREAT....
You H does NOT DEFINE YOUR WORTH.....Please.... don't believe the enemies lies... this world is GOD'S creation and has MUCH beauty.... our lives have MUCH beauty....YOU have SOOOO MUCH inner beauty and wisdom.....
Time to take a break from the LIES is all....GOD IS ALIVE!! Look around and he loves every cell that makes you.... you... and we all love you and you are important to us... Go Queenie… witness his Glory….fill your soul with hope…. HE IS I CONTROL…. HE’S GOT YOUR BACK….
“It’s not the absence or presence of trials in our lives that determines our happiness….. It is the absence or presence of God”
OS came home last night from work, asked if we could talk. He didn’t quit his job, he spoke to his boss about cutting his hours and had a meeting with my business associate to start building the amway business. I was so incredibly proud of him for taking care of it, owning his feelings and walking through something that was very hard for him. He mentioned that his boss wanted to know why he didn’t come to him earlier, and OS said he was afraid of him. I congratulated him for his personal success, not those words of course. But I really was impressed because honestly I hadn’t even thought to just cut hours. In doing so, it takes the hours pressure of, but the shift pressure as well. He won’t be the one to close the store at night and that will be a big relief to him.
I realized why I am so sad lately. Anniversaries abound around my life and like SMB, I am one to mark each and every one. Not sure why, just who I have been all my life. D-day is a couple of weeks away, and today is my 10th anniversary at work. WH made so many promises to me when I got this job. Specifically one that would have had us both not working, building the amway business and living life together and free. He promised me so much. He wanted so much for life. In fact, as I was meditating last night it dawned on me how OS was actually expressing to me the same thing that WH complained about for years. He HATED his job. I was too caught up in the house, the money that I didn’t listen to his concerns and let him figure it out, even if it meant moving to a smaller house.
Right before D-day, I could sense how unhappy he was or I was more intuned to him and I encouraged him to look for a new job and be happy. I would support him in anyway, even if that included moving. Ironically, I think when he was out “looking” for a job, he was with her.
So many years wasted on his unhappiness and I’m so ashamed that I didn’t just let him do what he wanted all those years ago, even if it meant the family lost living the lifestyle we wanted to give them.
No, Please, my H does NOT define my worth. G-d does. But I have truly looked to MY behavior because it was G-d who needed me to. I had so much to learn about how wrong I was willing, and seek his wisdom in how to become the woman he always envisioned for me. Yes, I loved my H deeply, but I wasn't the wife he needed, the wife G-d envisioned me to be.
I know I'll work through this. But sometimes I am overwhelmed at my part in the destruction of a marriage and family.
But sometimes I am overwhelmed at my part in the destruction of a marriage and family.
I think we can all look back and see different chocies we could have made, and own our mistakes. But I think you take way too much credit for this. You may HAVE made some mistakes along the way, but it was still WH's choice to bail in the way he did, no matter what happened before.
The difference now is that you can look in the mirror without flinching, WH can't. (((Queenie)))
Yes, that is so true, I can look in the mirror. I just wouldn't like to see what I do. LOL
Then look at me. I'll be your mirror. And I'll reflect your compassion, strength, kindness, humor, lovliness, grace, courage, motherliness, quirks, considerate-ness, fantasticalness, and straight up lovability.
Hi Queenie, catching up a bit tonight. Hopefully you are over your low. I understand. Some days are better than others and some days are just hard and we do not want to function. Those are the days that we have to turn over to God because we are unable to handle our lives or do not choose to.
So many years wasted on his unhappiness and I’m so ashamed that I didn’t just let him do what he wanted all those years ago, even if it meant the family lost living the lifestyle we wanted to give them.
Queenie, your WH had choices, sweetie. You didn't MAKE him do anything, so you can forget about what you didn't allow him to do. Own what is YOURS, not what is his.
Originally Posted by Queenie
I know I'll work through this. But sometimes I am overwhelmed at my part in the destruction of a marriage and family.
You are not alone. I have done this so much, and do you know what? I have had so many people look at me cross-eyed and sideways, telling me I'm not to blame for it ALL. Sure, I screwed up, so did the Z. Let the past serve to teach you, but don't dwell there, taking mental floggings. Get beyond it. Smack yourself upside the head when you go there; it's probably just as useful as all that self loathing. :twobyfour:
{{{Queenie}}}} It's been a long time. Glad to know you keep on growing stronger, I've missed you guys but been very busy with my recovery from the op etc. Still praying for you
Wow, how are you? It has been a long time. I am growing stronger living my life as G-d wants. It's been a tough journey. But I keep on keeping on. What's happening with you?
Shabbat Shalom and happy weekend everyone, thank you for stopping by.
Can you hear the voices? Is it that loud in your head like it is ME. My chattering, my insanity never stops. Its so loud lately its driving me crazy. It quiets, but it doesn't stop. This journey has been so much more about me and recovering myself as a human being, that my M, well its not anywhere near what I hope.
Personal recovery continues. I fight everyday to survive the thoughts and voices in my head. Not because this A happened but because of who I AM. Who G-d created me to be. I don't process life the way a normy does. And so, the ADDICTED mind is very understandable to me. I have spent nearly my entire life avoiding the FEELINGS, through drugs, alcohol, food, money, sex, marriage, etc. In the end, when the curtain closed it was all about my relationship with G-d.
Most of you aren't "damaged" like me. You are able to see your part and realize that your wayward is a screw up. I see my part and it destroys me. It destroys me because my children were the ones who ultimately were hurt and I find it unforgiveable.
So, my journey moved to forgivness of myself. For the night when my dog died, and I stayed at school and ran a bingo night for all the families of the school instead of being at home and being a wife and mother, which in the end was all I EVER wanted, I just didn't realize it until too late.
I'm so ashamed of myself and the choices I made in life. And truth be told I am no different than any other wayward on here, not in the same way, but in the same actions. The hurtful behavior, the lying, the chaos, the destruction of a family and you all seem to think I am someone with strength. I don't deserve it. Not yet, because I'm still fighting for survival. It's true you can survive the affair, but life as an addicted who hears the committee in her head - ah that's a totally different matter.
HI Queen! Just wanted to drop in and say that I'm sorry that you are having trouble with OS. Stand tall and keep your foot down...he may not respect you today but he will...
You know how kids think that they know it all...supporting you all the way...
Well, I had to have an op in the end, and somehow that brought WS back home. So we are now trying recovery. It has been a very long and tough road. We are no where near out of the woods, he still speaks to her and so in turn i don't think we have hit recovery as such.I don't know what the future holds but I am taking a chance.
Do you avoid them NOW? If not, then you are not as currently DAMAGED as you think or assume. Queenie, we ALL have baggage, issues, problems, FOO carp. ALL OF US. It's what you do from this point on, KNOWING this, that counts.
Most of us are damaged, Queenie. Maybe not specifically just like you. some of us come from alcoholic FAMILIES. Some of us come from abusive families.
Originally Posted by Queenie
It destroys me because my children were the ones who ultimately were hurt and I find it unforgiveable.
I can relate; many can. I would hope you see beyond your situation and understand that many of us feel the same way, just for different reasons. Sounds like you've sealed their fate and have given up.
Originally Posted by Queenie
I just didn't realize it until too late.
Now this just sounds like you are punishing yourself, being dramatic. Are your children still alive? Are you still alive? Do you still talk? If the answer to any of the above is yes, well, then it's not over. You still have a FAMILY, Queenie, just not what you had designed in your head. You cannot change the past, but you can make a better future, a better today.
IMO, you are negative self talking here. For what? What purpose does this serve? Stop it! Snap out of it!
It takes TWO people to make or break a marriage.
Originally Posted by Queenie
It's true you can survive the affair, but life as an addicted who hears the committee in her head - ah that's a totally different matter.
And if you continue to self loathe, how will you survive it? You gotta spend more time looking at today, fixing things as you go, and stop living in the past. When you get that negative talk, snap that rubber band and move along. I know I'm oversimplifying, but you are complicating things with this negativity.
And stop letting the inside of your head be a 'committe'. It's a partnership - - you & G-d! Period.
It's that partnership that moved you from D day to today & has made you the stronger woman that you ARE. I've often told you to go back & read thru your past posts. Do it again. See for yourself, instead of throwing yourself a pity party.
Think about where your kids would be if you had stayed the quivering puddle of goo you were at one time.
Don't make me come over and give you a "Snap out of it" smack! :twobyfour:
You know I say all of this out of total love, right?
I really do and always have appreciated your honesty. I honestly don't believe that what I was doing was complete self-loathing or pitying but getting to a deeper level of my recovery.
I don't have the words to describe correctly what is happening because I don't completely understand myself. I'm being kind to myself, relaxing, listening to feng shui music and just not "doing" but being. Something is getting worked out in me with my relationship to G-d and my past. I have to see this through.
If I seem like I'm full of self-loathing, please trust its just something I need to work through, and I am doing that.
So many of you have become a part of my life and I'm so grateful to you. We all have a path to healing, this one is just one piece of that recovery for me to be set free from my past and regrets.
Have FAITH in ME. G-d is right with me on this one.
I have faith in you Queenie. What I read did sound like self flagellation, and it concerned me; seemed like backsliding. Sounds like you are taking care of yourself, which is healthy. I just don't want you taking responsibility for anybody else's part; not your WH, not your children, not your family or friends.
When I look back, I see it as a learning opportunity now, I don't assign all that emotion to it anymore. I see what I did wrong, and I work to change the behaviors and habits so that I can be an even better person. I USED to look back and kick myself, but what's done cannot be erased, and I could spend countless hours bringing myself down, but I've got a DS to raise into a man, and don't have time for all of that.
I just felt compelled to make sure you were being honest with yourself, and not taking responsibility for others' demons.
Hi Lil, I'm hanging in there, spending a lot of time with the bible and prayer. Keeping it simple and easy this week. Kinda really working hard to not work at life and letting G-d lead my path for me.
You know that flashlight analogy Mr. Mark gives me.
I had quite an interesting experience this week. One day a little preschooler came into the office and needed her medicine. I haven't given medicine for a long time, but I can pretty much remember what I am doing. However, to be all honest I was a little distracted working on kindergarten orientation stuff.
So, I went into the healthroom, looked at the syringe and then the bottle for amount, then I believe I checked two other times, took out 1ml and apple juice and gave the little girl her medicine. The para said, that was way too much medicine and I say no it wasn't. She said yes, the nurse only gives her 1 of those and I gave her 10 times of the amount she said.
I quickly tried to get the little girl to spit it out. Well, she is in preschool for a reason, special ed preschool. Anyways, the medicine was gone. We quickly got the nurse, she called the mom, who also was a school nurse, she was coming right over, and called the pharmacy and poison control. It turns out this SEIZURE medicine would only cause her drowsiness and wabblyness.
As you can imagine I beat myself up pretty much. I was mortified. I tried to justify it, but in my heart I questioned whether I had checked it clearly enough. I was scared, scared I was going to lose my job, because the nurse needed to fill out an accident report, scared I was going to be sued and embarrassed that I had endangered a little girls life possibly.
I got to sit there with my thoughts and you know ME, beating myself is ONE of the WORST traits I have. But I also prayed, I prayed for the little girl, I prayed for G-d to help me walk through all the ramifications, etc.
Mom showed up and after a few minutes my emotions got the better of me, I walked over to face and her and broke down crying how sorry I was. She told me wait, I told her no, I need to finish my apology and then she interrupted and said, I DIDN'T give her the wrong amount. The nurse had been giving her the wrong amount the entire time. It was now the nurses' turn to feel like all those things I felt like and like how she tried to console me, I was consoling her.
There is no reason to go into the enormous amount of relief and gratitude to g-d for helping me through that, but what was the most important part was MY LESSON from G-d.
Some of you might already see it coming, but here it goes because it's important for me to own. When I thought I had hurt that child, I was the scum of the earth and there was no room in my heart for me to be human and make an error. When it was the nurse who made the mistake, I was all over it telling her it's ok, it happens, we are human, etc.
I judge myself so harshly for so MUCH. As my sponsor and most of you who are still patiently walking throught with me, tried to get me to understand, it truly is time for me to put the hammer, the sledge hammer that is down. I have so admitted my sins to g-d. I have repented, changed my ways and can begin a different level of healing.
I don't know if my marriage can be saved or it's even in G-ds plan for me, so what I have begun to pray for is the courage to accept the consequences of my actions and help me move forward in life, knowing that I have paid my dues, will pay my dues if g-d puts it in my face and that I am a human being and can truly let it go.
so what I have begun to pray for is the courage to accept the consequences of my actions and help me move forward in life, knowing that I have paid my dues, will pay my dues if g-d puts it in my face and that I am a human being and can truly let it go.
It does take a lot of courage, too. Amen, Queenie.
I struggle/d with forgiving myself for being what I had considered weak by giving up on my marriage. I did give up. I didn't love enough. I didn't give enough. I coulda/shoulda/woulda done more/better if only....
My head had been a mess with these thoughts for a while after I filed for divorce. I still struggle at times to forgive myself for not holding on longer. Intellectually, I don't believe it woulda made a bit of a difference, but it's hard to accept. So I push myself to move forward, cuz, in the end, I only control me, and there were two of us in that divorce court...
You're a beautiful person Queenie. God IS working in your life and you're doing all you can do.
Pray for HIS guidance and will. But still do all you can do each day to make life a little better than the day before. My mom works in a preschool and has taught for many years the pre k class. She loves it. And also is too hard imho on herself. She just loves the little ones so much..like you do.
Many hugs..you'll do this. You'll get thru this..with flying colors..look at your friends here!!!
Wow Queenie... that's an awesome story, and what a perfect way to illustrate how much harder you can be on yourself. You are an awesome person, a loving and caring person and a kind and gentle person. You deserve to be kind and gentle to yourself too.
Thank you so much for all the support you have given me. Truly, I have NO misconceptions that I would be this recovered if it weren't for you in my life.
I have concentrated on Jeremiah this past week, actually ever since my last pit visit. There is so much that applies. I don't know if I have mentioned, but I got a new bible, not torah. It's called the life recovery bible and it's really helping me to understand possible meanings with an AA twist on it. I am finding it easier to process and put into language that I can understand. One reason is because it's in English, versus Hebrew. LOL..
Just kidding
I hope you all are having a wonderful mother's day. Mine was absolutely awesome.
I would love to chat with you on the phone. I realized a moment ago, that my strength is not in figuring out what to do, but I am so there in how to do it. I have worked Plan A, B. I exposed to everyone and anyone who would listen. I was creative in Plan A, and made it through Plan B.
I have learned alot about me, but then that's what G-d had in mind all along.
Teaching, naw, not me PM. But certainly sharing my experience, strength and hope with this new version because it's hitting my heart and understanding in a very empowering way. That and all the things G-d is doing in my life today.
When I thought I had hurt that child, I was the scum of the earth and there was no room in my heart for me to be human and make an error. When it was the nurse who made the mistake, I was all over it telling her it's ok, it happens, we are human, etc.
I judge myself so harshly for so MUCH
Good insight, Queenie....and it's what I call an 'unhealthy' comfort zone.
...can you think of any number of other 'healthier' ways of taking care of Queenie's needs?
Please call me any time. My cell is on most of the time so leave a message if I don't pick up and I'll get back to you. Let me know if you'd rather call my home or work number and I'll email those to you.
Well, guess what. Today is 2nd anniversary of D-day and I am doing FABULOUS all in all.
I remember that day like it was today. I remember that pain as if it was today.
HOWEVER,
I forget that pain like I did in child birth. I forget that day because I have become a better person because of what I have walked through.
Is my M recovered, NO... Do I want it to be YES..
Will it be? Ask G-d, he knows.
From the day this happened, I found G-d and have walked with him as tightly as I could. I, and do I say that loosely as if it were me, somehow found the FAITH and TRUST to move forward and live life. I so still struggle, I so still cry my heart out in wretching pain and sadness, but I logged on here as skinsgal.... and became Queenie.
Queenie faces her demons even when she doesn't want to, faces her responsibilities and seeks G-d for forgiveness. Queenie is learning she deserves G-ds blessings and goodness in life.
And FINALLY, I have given my H to G-d in complete entirety and is waiting out whatever is to come.
If you dont' believe you can survive, your wrong. I did. Not at all like I thought it would happen, but in the way G-d had planned. Trust the process, trust time heals all, even when you don't like it and trust that you absolutely don't know how it plays out, because I didn't.
There is still hope for my M. Two years later and still looking like there might be recovery if it's in G-ds will.
Skinsgal came here in desperation and total destruction? How did I get to here today?
Literally one second at a time, one toe at a time, one hour at a time, one day at a time.
I read, read, posted, cried about my feelings and bared my soul. I learned about myself in spite of not wanting to.
I listened and took to heart what everyone told me. Even when it hurt. Even when I didn't want to.
One day it hit me what being still was about, thanks Ark. It was letting G-d do what G-d was going to do and just keep moving forward. It wasn't easy, and I was so frustrating to so many people on here :twobyfour:, BUT I kept at it, kept movign forward.
From skinsgal to Queenie, from the bottom of my heart I thank those of you who helped me once, twice or have walked daily with me for your love, patience, kindness and giving spirit. I could NOT have done it without you. I especially wish Mimi was here to share this day with me. I miss you so very much. I hope your life is as you hoped and prayed.
But you know what's cool Queenie? Even in the height of your pain, you STILL took/take the time to reach out to others who are hurting. That says alot about who you really are.
Hi Queenie, stopping in to say hi and seeing you celebrating an anniversary no one wants but you are handling it like a Goddess.
Stay strong, follow God's path. I also find the Bible as a source of strength and lately I have been able to really get a better handle on my emotions (at least when I am with other people; not privately).
This is yet another turning point. God has a plan for us and it is on his time not ours.
Do you still have the flashlight analogy. I remember reading it awhile ago and I think it might be good to post again. Might take on a new meaning for me. take care.
The flashlight analogy can be found HERE. It was on November 13th of last year that I posted it for Queenie.
Queenie,
Interesting that I discovered my wife's affair 3 years ago on Monday and confronted her 3 years ago yesterday. It was three years ago on Saturday that she told me she definitely wanted a divorce and three years ago next Monday that she said she could never give up OM.
This past Monday on the 3rd anniversary of the worst day of my life she called me in the middle of the day to tell me she loved me and missed me. We're still together though it was touch and go for a while.
And I'm still here posting because it was here I found the tools I needed to carry on the fight...
Wow, I wish I had been here to follow your story from the beginning. Your post about the medicine and how hard you are on yourself really hit me. Thanks for sharing.
Oh, and Shabbat shalom. We are having a family service tonight. Mrs. Hold and D12 are out of town but S14 is here. They are serving dessert after services, so maybe I can drag him over there.
Oh, and Shabbat shalom. We are having a family service tonight. Mrs. Hold and D12 are out of town but S14 is here. They are serving dessert after services, so maybe I can drag him over there.
Thank Holding, that is very kind of you to say. It's been a journey fer sure. I always resort to food to entice my little darlings to services. I am so not above BRIBERY.
Pepper, you always leave my head wondering what you really mean. :crosseyedcrazy:
Cinders, Oh yes, that's absolutely the best news. I hadn't seen the report. Thank you so much.
Mark, Cinders, APF, Miriam, Bellevue, Holding, and the ones who I can't remember right now cause I'm rushing out the door to son's last game of the year. Shabbat Shalom.
Princess, you and so many others gave me the strength and belief that I had help to give. But I also know from my AA that carrying the message is how we recover ourselves. It's funny, I am so not the expert like many others on what to do, but how to do it. There's my strength.
Mark, our timeline of dates, too similar and yet look at you and how you have recovered and are still here. What an amazing inspiration you are.
Hope, you are so right, our time is in G-ds hands and we are still just walking through the forest with the flashlight. Mark's analogy is something I continually put in front of me to keep me going. Maybe one day soon we can hook up.
SMB, you have helped me through so much, I was so jealous of your life, but now I can honestly say I am so happy for you and let it be at that. What G-d has planned I don't know, but I do know you and tst have worked so hard for this and deserve all of G-ds blessings.
Happy Friday everyone. It's YS last game of the season, and the sun is fixing to be out all weekend long. Oh yes, this Queenie is going to relax in a chair, reading the bible and torah and let G-d shine on her skin.
I hope you all have a fabulocity weekend and are good to yourselves.
Woo hoo, I in my comfortable place.. General discussion and no more recovery. I am almost happy about that. I missed you all so very much. Hope all is well with everyone.
Overall I am doing really well. H is struggling internally.... that darn 4th step... but I know it's not MY problem and I can't fix it, so I am praying alot.
I missed you guys alot. Thanks for stopping by. I look forward to hearing the updates on all of you.
Chai, I know what's happening for you and I know that G-d has given you everthing you need. You probably aren't even aware of the strength and ability to hold your head up high knowing that you have walked through this with dignity and grace and whatever you have been called upon to do, you have done it.
JT, I just saw there are a couple of messages from you. I'll go listen when I get out of work today.
Bugs, I can't wait to hear about your update.
Looking, I'm going to try and say this gracefully. As grateful as I am in recovery. My heart is over here and I'm not sure I want to go back over there. For me the reason is because I believe that people who are coming over on here need hope that no matter what, if they follow G-d, follow the plans, etc, they can recover personally and maritally.
Most people who are still going through the horrids of an A, don't go to recovery because it's too hard. I was one of those people.
Am I being stupid? Maybe... I'll keep praying on it.
My heart is over here and I'm not sure I want to go back over there
You know, I don't believe that Mimi ever posted on the recovery board, citing that she got more traffic here, on her thread. I dunno, I never felt like I was really in recovery, so I never moved my thread. You aren't afraid to go back over to recovery are you, Queenie?
I MISS Mimi so much. I think you are right. And selfishly I made a LOT of friends over here. Am I afraid, actually I don't think so. I'm more lonely. I would agree with Mimi, you get more traffic.
As for recovery. SL, After this past 48 hours I would offer that recovery simply DOES NOT look like we imagined. I have to just TRUST G-d, walk in FAITH and remember it was HE who got me this far. I TRULY feel like we are in recovery. We are BOTH actively working on making ourselves better and different for ourself as well as the good of the marriage. It just doesn't move as fast as I want.
Look at me I am still in this forum while rightfully I should be in Divorcing/Divorced.
I feel comfortable here with all of my "homies". Don't really know where I belong because I still do want to recover my M.
Reading this board every day gives me strength, hope and faith.
What a AWESOME thing to say. I think that's it too, I feel most comfortable here because we are families. We are through the worst here, and then get to celebrate the successes. I am glad I have the opportunity to be in recovery. I TRULY am. I just missed this place.
I got alot more traffic on my thread when it was in SaA. I decided to move it because there was a comment made on a thread about "the same half dozen threads always being at the top of the page" and I knew I was one of them by virtue of the fact that I am on and off MB all day.
I moved so that newbies coing on could have a chance at getting some support without my ME, ME, ME posts
As far as recovery goes, it starts off so heart breakingly slow... but like Flick said to me this morning, its rather like a jet plane, takes forever to get moving but once it does, it gains speed rapidly.
I got alot more traffic on my thread when it was in SaA. I decided to move it because there was a comment made on a thread about "the same half dozen threads always being at the top of the page" and I knew I was one of them by virtue of the fact that I am on and off MB all day.
I moved so that newbies coing on could have a chance at getting some support without my ME, ME, ME posts
Hi Lil doggie, I do disagree about making room for the newbies. When I was a newbie I was busily posting but I cannot tell you all the time spent reading these threads and helping me daily. Just think if Queenie or Chai or anyone of the long time posters moved. That knowledge might be lost. But I do understand about the support to others. Signed ME ME ME
I moved so that newbies coing on could have a chance at getting some support without my ME, ME, ME posts
I admit I hadn't thought of that.
Lil, you are always so good at helping me keep focused on the possibilities. I agree it's slow, but I also get to experience the stages first through you, so that's a COOL THING.
Well, I am selfish little weasel then, cuz I like SAA (GQII). As for me, I should be on the divorced forum, too. I read here and there, but mes amies find me here. I also like to read the sound advice given by the vets on this forum. I cannot use it to save my marriage, since that ship has sunk, but I CAN read and make some of it a part of my new life.
Queenie you can always post here, on SAA, about your personal recovery, but it may be best for you to post about your marital recovery on the recovery forum. There may not be as much traffic, but the traffic there is specifically FOR those recovering, and you will get QUALITY hits there.
I think I'll just let it be in G-ds guidance and not make a decision today because I don't have a sense of what's right.
Interestingly, right at this moment I am walking through making a decision that I KNOW is G-d driven and right for me. When D-day happened, my "sisterhood" friends were not REALLY there for ME. They didn't buy into the theory of addiction, and they wanted me to divorce him. They weren't really supportive of my stand for my marriage and just wanted me to move on. I know it was because of the pain I was going and they really didn't want to watch me hurt so bad. But it was about THEM and that they didn't want to see the pain or hurt. I can accept that. So I came here and went to AA and made new friends.
When H and I decided to start over, I didn't really get much support from those same friends. It was during that time that I was singing in the choir for High Holidays. It has been my hope that H would change his mind and come back to temple so we can go together.
However, today that isn't happening and services continue to happen and my friend calls me to find out if I am going. What simply is the TRUTH is I don't want to go to services without my H when I can go home make dinner, possibly have a family dinner with my kids too and then go to a AA meeting with H together.
I got tired of coming up with excuses each time and after sending out an email, I chose to call my friend and explain.on the phone, which is something I HATE to do. Take care of myself and be honest about what I want. As you guess, she wasn't supportive, and did her best to guilt me in. Told me that is her husband told her to quit something she would tell him where to stick it.
I calmly explained that DIFFERENCE was that my H didn't ask it, suggest it or almost isn't supportive of it. This was MY idea, my choice, and my decision because of what I have learned here. My IB's got me alone. I'm not about to repeat again, when I truly would RATHER just be WITH him.
Looks like my friends are going away again. Oh well. Their loss. I hope one day they come to understand what true friendship is about. Supporting choices even when you don't like them or think they aren't what's best.
Queenie, hon, it matters not really WHERE your thread is on these boards, but where YOU are in your thread. If you wanna stay here then stay. You tried the move but unsure of how you likes it. Well considering ALL the changes you have been going through in your life it's not surprising you would like some stability here.
There are many who have stayed here no matter their outcome (SL, Chai, me....:)) and others who moved and adjusted well (Lil, SC,) but in the end it really doesn't matter where you are as long as you stay on G-d's chosen path for you......
Glad to see you and everyone ......too bad about the lost posts though. There was some really good stuff out there. Oh well, adjust we must
not2fun
ps....."Due to recent budget cuts including the rising costs of elelctricity, gas, and fuel, not to mention the current market conditions, we regret to inform you that the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. Sorry for the inconvience..... :)"
Where have you been? I have MISSED you so much. I think it was about a month ago when I commented we haven't heard from you in MONTHS. What's going on. I'm going to have to see if you posted on your thread.
Queenie - Hope you will keep posting here, and also on Recovery. Many newbies need to see success stories, and realize that most affairs DO end, and marriages can be restored.
As far as your friends, maybe you have a ministry to share your story with people at temple.
I'm doing fine, and am still in the PNW - spent 3 months with sis and now am spending time with my mom. She is doing extremely well, considering she is dying from a very agressive lymphoma (thanks to Flick and others raising money). She has been in remission now for about 18 months. So things are good.
How long are you here for? JT and I are getting together on Veteran's Day. think you want to join us?
I will ALWAYS remember your words. Almost ALL A end. Over and over again. You were so RIGHT.
I actually agree, my story needs to be told. But not today. I need to heal with my family and enjoy the time we have left with my son. Check out his homecoming pictures on facebook.
B, how do I post in two places with one thread? LOL
So again, what a dream weekend this was. Friday night H and I had a wonderful time going to AA mtg and just coming home to sit next to each other. On Saturday he got up, went to his AA meeting and then came home. Was hungry so I whipped up French Toast, then we went shopping together, came home and waited for YS to come get dressed for homecoming.
Get this, he wore a white tuxedo, with pink vest and tie. He got his GF to get a pink dress to match the tux. He looked so handsome. Last year at this time, I prayed that H would be a part of the celebration this year and he WAS. What a cute couple my YS and his GF made.
Then H and I went to AA costume party. He doesn't like getting dressed up, but in the end, he put on his suit and got really fancy so I matched him. Dressed up as a queen and he was my body guard. Very fun actually. We danced and then came home.
I got up this morning, and even though it was COLD and FOGGY, I still went with H to his lax game and watched him play. Then we came home and watched football.
There are still parts to our recovery that hasn't happened. There have been times when people questioned whether we really are in recovery or not, especially because we aren't really working the MB principles, he is still working on his steps. However, when I sit back and just reflect, what I realize is that this man is doing things the HE believes show me love in HIS way. He washed my car, he puts a new tire on my car because he wants me safe, he takes me to a dance and dances with me, and he just brought me a light for under the stove that will make things easier.
As the fog clears he becomes more giving. I just am simply amazed at this whole process. We are off for the AA mtg. Talk to ya later.
Nice to see you B. Please let me know if you are up for meeting.
Queenie - If I'm still here, I will join you. But don't know if I'll be here. Came up just to help my niece move to her new home in Anacortes, and help my sis clean up the rental. (Sis had rented to her daughter, my niece). That all took WAAYYYY longer than I thought.
Been with my mom now, and would like to stay for awhile longer, but may have to go to Oceanside to be deposed by an attorney. It is about the complaint I filed against my boss for contract fraud. I ended up retiring early, just to escape him, but the case is continuing on - it was brought to court by one of the other contractors. The attorney has agreed to pay for me to fly down and back. Sometimes I just wish it would all just go away.
Sorry I haven't kept in touch more. Just been busy helping sis and my niece, and then spent a lot of time fishing for salmon.
My sons and given sons and daughters are doing well, all considered. And it is almost a full time job keeping up with them.
Hey Believer, I hadnt heard that you had left that job, sorry to hear that they made it so unpleasent for you in the end. Prayer for you during the deposition. I hope it is over soon
I told Flick about what you said about your Mom being in remission, he said to say "cool and glad to hear that"
No, I'm not. And I'll find you regardless of where your thread is. Hate to have to say it, but you're stuck with me.
If you're ever up for the company, and if you think you'd be comfortable with mine and my son's, let me know when your son or H is playing lax. I understand if you want to keep that as something just for your family, so no prob if it won't work. Due to DS8's interest, I'd like to take him to a game and if seeing you could be combined with it, then bonus for me. Yee-haw!
Nice to read you, Q. And nice to read about the special times you are enjoying with your H and your family.
Oh Looking, thank you so much. I was more talking about my sisterhood friends, the ones who really weren't there when all this began. And now that I want to concentrate on my family... they are unhappy with me again.
Yes, you betcha we can hook up your son for a view in the game. It's pretty fun to watch.
I was more talking about my sisterhood friends, the ones who really weren't there when all this began.
Their loss.
I'm nursing one heck of a cold. Everything from the neck up is stuffed and/or sore. I'm trying to take care of myself, but you know how that goes when you have young ones plus, H is recovering from surgery. But I'm resting in bed right now, checking MB and email, and watching "iCarly" with DD6 next to me.
No, we don't really have the extra money this pay period for that. Especially with H's birthday coming on Halloween. We did talk about it, but we agreed we would just save the money.
I'm sorry you don't feel good. That sucks. The cruds are so going around. The kids are getting really sick at school so early in the season. Some have had the swine flu and thankfully parents are keeping them at home
I am putting this part of the other thread on here because it's so vitally important right now.
We started the workbook last night. He was all gung ho and then we started with him. I figured that I understood these principles first so I could take his criticism or challenges. Like the book we started with SD... I was absolutely blown away that he doesn't feel I make any demands on him. So after a few minutes we went onto DJ's. Here's where it got really interesting and to be honest, I just realized that SD are involved here to.
He told me he felt cornered like a cat to do MB principles, and that I was trying to force my way of thinking onto him, by making him learn these principles because they would create that romantic marriage that we both wanted.
Talking went back and forth, and then I got to the real cause and condition. He doesn't trust ONE PERSON, not even G-d. He doesn't TRUST anyone because he isn't trustworthy and if he can't trust himself how could he trust someone else.
What I saw was a man who is absolutely frozen in the prison of HIS mind and body and afraid to trust a single soul in this world. What I saw was a scared little boy who has such a wall of protection around him that losing his marriage would be almost better than trusting someone or G-d. And quite honestly, I felt so sad for him.
He did promise to continue to work on the workbook. He understands the value, but he isn't there yet and asked me to not give up on him.
I'm sure many of you will think he is blowing smoke up my rear, but you weren't here and you don't know my husband. I told him how all the conversations on here went, about not being willing to meet my needs, about still being involved with another woman because I would stake my LIFE on it he isn't involved with crack ho.
As the conversation wrapped up, I had gotten to express alot of my hurt and sadness over what had happened in our life. How I wanted more for myself and wanted more for him and that I hoped he could find that path to healing because I wouldn't wait forever, Queenie deserved a lot more than that.
I told him that I loved him so much, clearly more than he could ever imagine, understand, or feel and that I was giving him up to G-d once again because this wasn't my problem and I couldn't fix it. He asked if I was throwing him out. Skinsgal would have made idle threats. Queenie doesn't and said, NO. But that this was his journey his fight for happiness and it wasn't my responsibility to fix it or find the solutions, that was between him and his G-d. And that I truly hope he found it.
He asked me to please not give up on him.
Of course I won't. But I also know that I can't fix this. He is just a very troubled soul and I'll just have faith and trust in my G-d that he can find a way to reach my H.
Call me stupid, call me whatever. But today, Queenie knows what she wants and what she wants is to let go and let G-d and give him more time.
One more part. G-d knows the truth of what is happening. I have absolutely trusted him no matter what through all of this. My H and I are living under the same house because of G-d and I just absolutely won't allow doubt on what G-d is capable of to cloud my healdfast belief my husband I are in recovery. It doesn't look text book, but it's real and it's happening. Does it last, I simply don't know.
I'll leave the result to G-d and walk in recovery today and look to him for the next indicated thing.
(((Queenie))) Recovery is a SLOW, SLOW, SLOW process. Even though my DH showed remorse early on, it took him a while before he was ready (or willing) to begin to come around to the realization that we couldn't just start where we left off, that there had to be major changes. Words are nice, but they won't get you there.
Every marriage is different and as long as you're not going backwards, you're good (for now). OTOH, staying in the same place too long is definitely not good. Perhaps you could set a deadline in your mind to start seeing some changes or willingness to change? You know your limits and now you know what a healthy marriage should look like. Don't settle (and I don't think you will).
I AM seeing progress, that's actually what prompted me to look at how to incorporate working the MB principles.
I have watched, experienced and felt the defogging in him, and can see the changes and progress in his actions. He was starting to do things again for me, albeit not what I wanted, but they were acts that thought of me.
He is a hurting soul. My marriage may not recover or become what I dream, but I won't give up yet. I do know what a healthy marriage looks like and you are so right, I won't settle.
It is a given that we have MUCH work to do to have a passionate and loving NEW marriage. I'm not blind to this. So let's just leave it at that for today.
H not only blew MY world apart, but he blew his children's world apart and is slowly trying to rebuild his R with his children. Last night OS's GF's car broke on the side of the road. OS asked H at 11:45am to help me go get her. He did... of course.
So... we have been texting all day long.. lunch time for him and he asked how I was doing.. I returned the favor and this was his responses.
H - It is a good day Q - And what makes it such a good day handsome H - the way it began in the wee hours this mourning Q - Can you share specifically what that was H - With OS rescuing GF him talking to me as we drove Q - just talking about his truck and what he wants to do with it. Then saying thanks Dad for doing this
I for one am SO humbly grateful to G-d. Because even if my M doesn't recover, my children and their father are and whatever sacrifices I CHOOSE to make today are more than worth it for me when I see what's happening between them.
I'm no martyr.. I have my timeline. I'm ok with my CHOICES and don't feel like I am missing out on anything..
My FAITH and TRUST in G-d to lead me where he needs me to go is stronger and more open than ever.
To quote PM, recovery is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow. I sometimes thought I would never ahve a remorseful, 'do anything to make it right' DH. Time and faith Queenie. Trust in the lord, keep working the programme, maintain your boundries, show your love.
1. Act Happy 2. Get a life (new activities, etc.) 3. repeat over and over..."I will make it" 4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone 5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point) 6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum) 7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc) 8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong 9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)
DON'Ts
1. Repeatedly say "I love you" 2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet 3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag 4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions 5. Argue, Reason or Plead 6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST) 7. Act helpless or depressed 8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble 9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea) 10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship" 11. GIVE UP
Hey, Queenie. H is doing well post surgery, thanks. As for us, we're ok.
Originally Posted by QueeniesAdventures
I'm sure many of you will think he is blowing smoke up my rear, but you weren't here and you don't know my husband.
I don't think that because I have this same problem. I have wonderful, amazing, honest, and supportive people in my life, but because of a few who have manipulated my trust to cause great hurt, I don't trust myself nor others with me. I have difficulty trusting anyone else with the real deep stuff. I'm having to work very hard on it.
I am proud of you for telling your H about your hurt and sadness, about your love for him and understanding that his problems are not yours to fix. It sounds like it could have been a difficult conversation and a very important one.
Lil, you and I are so similar. I find it completely hilarous that G-d continually puts things in my life that require patience. And I don't even pray for patience. Hmmmmm. He knows something I don't. LOL
I am thinking you wanted me to pay close attention to the don'ts. Duly noted and I'm just being loving and caring around him. Not to mention peaceful.
Thanks Looking. Without a doubt he is struggling internally/spiritually. Last night he came home after his meeting and was just plain quiet/on the verge of grouchy. I just let him be. Then when he was getting ready for bed I said, you aren't going to say goodnight? He said he was just in a bad space.
JT gave me some incredible advice about what's going on and I have to completely agree. Without a doubt, the best thing I can do is stay out of G-ds way and pray for hubby....
Lil, you and I are so similar. I find it completely hilarous that G-d continually puts things in my life that require patience. And I don't even pray for patience. Hmmmmm. He knows something I don't. LOL
I am thinking you wanted me to pay close attention to the don'ts. Duly noted and I'm just being loving and caring around him. Not to mention peaceful.
And thanks, as always, for the continued posting. You give us hope and insight into the lifecycle of an A -- from start to finish.
We are all rooting for you and your family. Love, love, love that the relationship between your H and children is mending right before your eyes. I pray that the same will happen between my WH and kids someday soon.
Queenie -- no pressure (lol) -- but keep being an inspiration.
Well I seems yet again that after being away from the board for a while, I return to find Ms. Queenie being the ever present Goddess!
I am very proud of you in what I have read here. You recognize the Reality and are willing to deal with it in a thoughtful, prayerful, and MB plan way! Outstanding.
I just came back from some training and a great deal of the focus was on being REALISTIC. Even if a situation seems to be going south, that does not mean that it can not be recovered. That is as long as we are realistic about the situation in the first place. If we fool ourselves into believing it is something that it is not, THAT is when we get ourselves into real trouble and are most likely to end up with a result we do not want.
I think this applies very much in your sitch. You realize the reality. You know what you want. You have a plan, and as the focal point of that plan is allowing G-d to do His work.
Gotta love it!.
Wish I had more time, but need to get my girl up for school. Hope you have a great weekend!
Hi Holy and Bugs.... I'll be back to ya in a few.. But LG, you are still on.
Help me understand what they ways are that I can help him with this? Other than just being prayerful, loving, and peaceful not matter what.
I agree, the interractions with his son's are good steps and he even sees every action he can do for them can be making living amends to the children. I was thinking that he did ALOT of damamge and it must look like a very steep mountain for him and he is trying to take it one day at at time to clean it up.
I don't pray for patience and get this in my life continually.
Shabbat Shalom y'all.....
Happy Halloween.
Oh did I happen to mention that H turns 50 tomorrow, my Halloween baby.... He seems to REALLY be struggling with THIS birthday. He didn't find the application for AARP such a great deal. I DID. I want the discounts.
We have more people getting sick.... I wouldn't mind a vacation again. Oh well, be careful what I wish for.
Hi Holy, thanks for stopping by. I just will always remember the credit card brillance forever. thank you for your well wishes and positive thoughts. It really does help alot.
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I am very proud of you in what I have read here. You recognize the Reality and are willing to deal with it in a thoughtful, prayerful, and MB plan way! Outstanding.
I learned this from you Bugs... to be a Goddess, to not sell myself short even when I want to. And to keep on keeping on.
I have not posted to your thread before, but I have read through most of it. You give me hope when I have none. I am currently in Plan B (just started it 3 days ago actually). I have a question for you: in one of your posts, you had mentioned that you thought you and your H getting involved in an Amway type of business was the beginning of your marriage problems (or something to that effect). My WH got involved with a similar type of business 3 years ago and I feel the same way. Can you expand on why you feel or felt that this particular business was a problem for your marriage? I was curious because I feel that my marriage was impacted for the negative by this type of business also.
Welcome to MB. I'm sorry I am not familiar with your situation, but I will look at it once I get to Bests. She has been way too patient. Thank you so much for the kind words. I really am grateful to G-d when someone can take comfort and hope from my story because there really was a LONG period of time when it LOOKED, SMELLED, and TASTED hopeless.
I bet the advice and input you have gotten thus far has been the best, I know it was for me. I hated being here, didn't want to belong to this club, but it SAVED my life.
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I have not posted to your thread before, but I have read through most of it. You give me hope when I have none. I am currently in Plan B (just started it 3 days ago actually). I have a question for you: in one of your posts, you had mentioned that you thought you and your H getting involved in an Amway type of business was the beginning of your marriage problems (or something to that effect). My WH got involved with a similar type of business 3 years ago and I feel the same way. Can you expand on why you feel or felt that this particular business was a problem for your marriage? I was curious because I feel that my marriage was impacted for the negative by this type of business also.
I should really go back and read what the context was because reading it now doesn't give a good accuracy.
There were many problems in my marriage and at one time and for a great many years I believe that business solved our problems, gave us direction, dreams and hopes, and gave us tools to have a happy marriage. I thought it delayed any divorce that might have happened.
After H and I started talking and when he revealed to me that he had had multiples affairs and how they took place I realized that the Amway business allowed so much of it to happen. I was the dutiful supportive wife encouraging him to go out and build the business. He would be gone, night after night and I would encourage it all the while he was sleeping around.
On the whole to be honest, I really support the World Wide Dreambuildingers organization in Amway. I believe they stand for family values and right and wrong. What happened in my marriage I don't believe is indicative of the company, plan or organization as it is a testament to the character of my H and his addictions.
I don't know if that makes sense or gives you the answer you want. I would LOVE to be able to blame someone or something, but the TRUTH is, what happened to my marriage is because of my H and me.
How are you doing in Plan B. How do you feel your Plan A went?
The reason that I felt that the networking marketing business was bad for our marriage is because it gave WH the opportunity to have the A without my questioning him. We had made it to certain level in the business, and he really wanted to push to get to the next one. We sat down with the DDs one day and the four of us made a pact that WH would pursue the business hard for the next year, even if that meant being gone 7 nights a week. I was to take care of the DDs so that their life remained much the same with activities, etc and would participate in the business as much as I could within reason. So, 6 months in to the agreement, WH started his A with OW and I never questioned his whereabouts. He would never have gotten away with it otherwise.
The business itself was not to blame and it gave WH some hopes and dreams about life, but I don't think they were or are realistic. WH is looking for a person or thing to make him happy. If he just had the "perfect" wife, if he just got enough attention, if his DDs didn't fight with each other, if we just had enough $$, the right house, the right business, a motorcycle, THE car, and on and on. He hasn't figured out yet that happiness comes from within and that life is what you make of it. I have tried for many years to get him to see that, but I have failed him in that regard.
I am not blaming our network marketing business for what happened - their philosophy is "God, Family, Business." But, unfortunately, WH is "Me, Me, Me, Business, Family, God." That's where the problem lies and I know that.
My Plan A back in May/June was really, really good. It wasn't great the rest of the summer, because Steve H. had recommended Plan B and I couldn't get WH to leave our home. I had no place to go with DDs, so we were forced to try over the summer to continue with Plan A. WH wasn't trying at all from what I could tell to stop contact with OW(but he thinks he was). WH kept getting caught making contact with OW all summer and that was a major LB for him. On top of all that, our software business was wrestled away from WH by his business partner (due in part to the A), so both WH and I lost our jobs and income. Our only income now is from the network marketing business (which WH keeps trying to keep me from getting to).
Everything is pretty much a mess. I realize that I have to work on ME now - Plan B. It looks, smells and tastes pretty hopeless to me. I do feel better without contact right now.
The reason that I felt that the networking marketing business was bad for our marriage is because it gave WH the opportunity to have the A without my questioning him. We had made it to certain level in the business, and he really wanted to push to get to the next one. We sat down with the DDs one day and the four of us made a pact that WH would pursue the business hard for the next year, even if that meant being gone 7 nights a week. I was to take care of the DDs so that their life remained much the same with activities, etc and would participate in the business as much as I could within reason. So, 6 months in to the agreement, WH started his A with OW and I never questioned his whereabouts. He would never have gotten away with it otherwise.
I absolutely do agree with this. I think this part gave them the ability to be gone and we didn't even question it. In fact encouraged it.
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WH is looking for a person or thing to make him happy.
Back in October 07, G-d smacked me over the head with this realization. WH was absolutely miserable in his life and he was running and blaming ME for everything. He wanted someone to make him happy, but the reality is it's not my job nor anyone elses. His happiness comes from G-d and that relationship.
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I realize that I have to work on ME now - Plan B. It looks, smells and tastes pretty hopeless to me. I do feel better without contact right now.
Plan B was my saving grace of serenity and peace. It was so hard at first, but it was during this time that I believe G-d really worked in me and my life. It was when G-d had the time to design me into Queenie and have me become the woman he always meant me to be.
Believer's mantra was affairs almost ALWAYS end.
My MANTRA - you DON'T know what is happening on the other side. have FAITH and walk in TRUST of what G-d can do no matter how hopeless..
Hi there Hope.... I am sitting here with breakfast on the stove, waiting for H to come home from the breakfast meeting because I want to have a night at home where we don't have to go to a meeting. I think it's been almost two months since we had that kind of night.
What a week this has been. In some ways, it's been so hard, in some ways it's been good and after yesterday it was necessary. So often I forget the very BASIC essential ingredient to recovery whether it be personal or marital and that's too just be still. G-d works in my life when I let him in, but the funny thing, it's not in my time. I also forget how he may be working in certain experiences to teach me something and that NO MATTER what, I walk in FAITH and TRUST...
First let me put this disclaimer in. MANY of you have explained that marital recovery is harder that we imagined. We don't know what we don't know. And I like so many others just simply didn't understand. When you learn like I did that you can't control anyone but yourself, it sound reasonable, but putting it into practice is hard. And then of course are the nasty old behavior for ME that still exist and always will because I am an alcoholic and addict. And when I let my character defects run me.... my life becomes unmanageable.
So, Wednesday we our day in court for the driving non moving tickets that my son got this summer one night on our way home. A little background. We got pulled over in H's car for a light out on the license plate and it turns out that WH didn't have insurance because well let's just say his life was totally unmanageable and he didn't have the money to pay for his insurance. He has comcast bundle remember, how could he pay for his insurance.
So... YS got the ticket, jerk of a cop, and we appeared in court. Because it was TWO moving violations the judge reduced the non-insurance ticket to 125.00 and we deferred the fix it ticket to 150.00. The long and short was we had to cough up 275.00. Now H hasn't been paid for his 80 because he works billable hours. His paycheck was only for 53 hours. However, he does make side money and had 200.00 in cash on him. The long and short of it was, instead of paying the cash and a check for the amount... he paid the total with our household check. So I asked him about it and he gave me a "poor me answer". I'll just put the money in the bank.
After about an hour of praying to g-d for guidance, I text him that I was going to my sponsors house and would be back. However, H wasn't done with his pitty potty and so we went to a mtg.... I tried to explain to him my experience and perspective and he just SHUT DOWN.... I DETEST that behavior, but I just stayed with G-d, stayed cool and kept my side of the street clean.
We came home, he was still grouchy and headed to sleep without saying goodnight. That's totally unacceptable OLD behavior and I said something. He said, I'm not mad at YOU. I'm mad at ME. I was very proud of him for saying that, and wished him a peaceful sleep and left him alone.
Gotta get breakfast ready for him. Be back in a while
Hi Not, nice to see you girl. I've been bored on yahoo..... come visit me...
So.... next morning he rolls over and hugs and kisses me for the day. He owns up to some behavior and we just settle things for the time being. I'm actually good to go on this. Because it's NOT MINE...
So.. fast forward to yesterday. H got up and took YS to work at 5:30 am and then went to his mtg. Came home and mentioned that he wanted to go to mall and get some tools. I might mention that on Thursday I have a text convo with H about since we both had selfish sides, that maybe instead of just giving, giving, giving, we find a way to fee out takers...... It actually felt really good for me to say this, because my taker needs feeding right now....
So... off to the mall we went. He looked at tools, he got some exercise stuff, while I walked around and looked at new washer and dryer and tv. Then we looked at watches for him. Then went walking into the mall and had an absolute blast. I took him to the stores my OS worked at. Then we went into payless shoes and we both got a pair of shoes. I really like having two incomes again. Thank you G-d. I don't forget to give him the glory for this.
Then we went and sat down for a Starbucks and just people watched and laughed and laughed. It was so much fun. Then I mentioned that I had wanted to get my nose pierced at one time and he said let's check into it. So we found out it was 65.00 at the mall. No go... Even I don't want to spend that kind of money.
YS was FINALLY done after 12 hours of working in the pouring rain. We went and got him and on the way home he asked if we would drop off at GF's house, so we did and then went out to dinner at a place that we chose at the same time. We had a nice time, then on the way out I don't remember which one mentioned about the tatoo place and seeing how much a nose piercing would be, but we went and checked it out. almost 90 minutes later, I walked out with my nose pierced and total gratitude in my heart to G-d. You see, I had entertained getting my nose pierced when he was gone as a way of being more hip for him. But it was always too expensive in my mind and how would I justify it. Never in my dreams did it include not only H going with me, but holding my hand.
We came home and are just sitting here having a relaxing day together.
Oh I forgot the most important part. At dinner, H and I walked through what had happened on Wednesday and after talking to MarriedForever, I came up with a solution when this type of situation happens.
I am learning to set boundaries and what we have agreed on, through POJA is that when he gets in those selfish, a ho moods, I am simply going to tell him that his behavior is a LB for me and that to preserve my love for him, I am going to leave and just enjoy myself or at the very least protect myself from his behavior. He was good with that and understood what I was trying to do.
I asked him what was working for him in our marriage and he told me that the way we are talking is what he is really enjoying and liking. It's new and it's not easy. I'm finding that there are ways to talk through stuff, but not when it's happening. And it's at those times that I hold closer to G-d, ask for help and just be still.
What a week you had, Queenie. Court, meetings, communicating with Mr. Q, being still, him recognizing his yucky behavior, shopping, breakfast, and then top it all off with a piercing... Woo-hoo! You go, Girl!
Hi Looking.... Yeah, it was a fun week all in all.
Serendipitous, I really appreciate you saying that. I think so often we stay limited in what we are experiencing and not happening, versus all the good that is happening and how much I am grateful to G-d for this.
Thank you for checking in and your kind words. It's really nice to see you.
You see, when we're at our weakest, that is when He is at His strongest and when we are at our lowest, that is when He will lift us up.
When David committed adultery with Bathsheba, then had her husband murdered to cover up his sin, the prophet Nathan came to see him and confronted him. At first he gave David an analogy (I sort of know a little about those) about a man who had many sheep and yet stole the pet lamb of his neighbor's children. Nathan asked David what he thought of a man who did such a thing and David, outraged over such an evil thing being done said that man should be put to death for his crime.
But then Nathan told David that he was that man. He had stolen from his neighbor and had shown no compassion for him. He had sinned against the man, the nation and against God.
It was soon after that David wrote the 51st Psalm:
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1 Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love; according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you are proved right when you speak and justified when you judge.
5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Surely you desire truth in the inner parts; you teach me wisdom in the inmost place.
7 Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
8 Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones you have crushed rejoice.
9 Hide your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquity.
10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will turn back to you.
14 Save me from bloodguilt, O God, the God who saves me, and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.
15 O Lord, open my lips, and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
18 In your good pleasure make Zion prosper; build up the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then there will be righteous sacrifices, whole burnt offerings to delight you; then bulls will be offered on your altar.
When we humble ourselves before God and truly repent of what we have done, He will restore us to right relationship, with Him and with others. Then we will praise Him for who He is and what He has done. He will again accept our offerings, our sacrifices and our praise. Our relationship with Him will be restored.From the restoration of THAT relationship will flow the restoration of our relationships with each other.
There are many things we might give to God as offerings but of course they all really belong to Him in the first place since He made it all. The one thing we can offer that He will not turn down, will not turn away from and will not despise is ourselves. That is what He really wants from us, is for us to give ourselves to Him totally, completely, unconditionally. When our will submits to His Will, He can use us for His purposes and we can become what He always meant for us to be.
It begins with standing before Him, helpless, broken without defense and asking for nothing, simply offering to Him the one thing we have refused Him, ourselves and nothing more.
You see, when we're at our weakest, that is when He is at His strongest and when we are at our lowest, that is when He will lift us up. sinned against the man, the nation and against God.
When we humble ourselves before God and truly repent of what we have done, He will restore us to right relationship, with Him and with others. Then we will praise Him for who He is and what He has done. He will again accept our offerings, our sacrifices and our praise. Our relationship with Him will be restored.From the restoration of THAT relationship will flow the restoration of our relationships with each other.
It begins with standing before Him, helpless, broken without defense and asking for nothing, simply offering to Him the one thing we have refused Him, ourselves and nothing more.
Shalom Aleichem!
Mark
Mark, this is true not only for the wayward but for the BS. Very powerful. Thank you for sharing this.
I admit it�s been a while since I got out of recovery and really looked about in SaA. I see your thread and have a look and what do I see? Nose piercing!?!
So, gonna send me a photo? LOL
DDD17 has pierced her tongue. I like the idea of something in my mouth to play with but worry about what damage it will do to my teeth. I think 7 holes in my ears is enough... hmm not much left
As a linguist, some of the folks around me who have gotten their tongues pierced have tried to cover it up.
I always hear the difference immediately when they talk.
They say I can't hear the difference, but I ask them how I would know over the phone? A few have called me to see if I notice anything, and I ask right away.
I've caught their kids, too, at college.
Fun stuff.
Oh, BTW, everyone I know who did this took the darn thing out.
I guess at some point the drooling thing jsut gets to them?
So I'll admit, reading that one thread where the woman was once a BS turned WS sparked my intrigue as to who she was. I didn't a little research to see if she ever posted to me, and I lost patience.
But.... I did find this.
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The sermon today at church was about What to Do, When you Don't Know What to Do. I think you, and many of us here, feel that way often,,,,,,trying to figure out our path.
It gave me great comfort to hear that the 'instructions' were pretty much what you & I and a whole lot of other folks are doing.
#1. Pray - always and unceasingly ( seek Him & His will constantly)
#2. Be Patient (He is always on Time)
#3. Be Positive (Trust in Him. Don't deny your circumstances, but trust that HE has a plan to work it to our good)
#4. Be ProActive (Don't let the unknown in 1 part of your life paralyze your ENTIRE life. Keep up with all other aspects of your live and leave this one thing to Him)
While we are praying, trusting, and being positive, if we carry on with the other aspects of our life, the answers will come. Getting snared up in the questions doesn't free us to do what we need to do. Carry on, knowing that the answer will come.
I know that IRL folks look at us like we are totally NUTS when we say anything about still having any spec of love for our WH. That's ok. I know what I know. I accept what I know. It works for me. Most people around me accept that. If they don't, I don't spend much, if any, time with them OR it's just not something we discuss at all.
It is hard after seeing the WH to not think about still loving them. What I do is mentally picture a beautiful, mahogony trunk. It's like a huge, old fashioned steamer trunk. The kind with brass straps and a huge key lock on the front. I picture putting the love I have for Drac inside that trunk and locking it up tight. I then keep the key on a golden chain around my neck. It is nice and long so that I can tuck it inside where no one can see it, but I know it's there.
This is how I handle accepting the love that I have for him. It's locked away. The horrible monster he is can't touch it. He doesn't know where the key is and he never will. If someday the man I love shows up, I'll have the key. If he doesn't, then one day I will likely take the chain off my neck and put it away, too.
Time will tell.
What I'm trying to say is that instead of beating yourself up for the love you feel, protect it. Put it away into a safe place so that you can carry on with the rest of your life. It doesn't mean you STOP loving him, but merely that you put space between your day to day life and that love.
I needed this reminder today. Hi JT.... Queenie waving from the hills remembering your wisdom...
I'm glad you found this and posted it. I really needed to read this right now.
I had coffee earlier with a friend, who is just incredulous that I would want to recover my marriage at this point- esp. since it's been almost 18 months since Dday. Ya know I got the "How can you still love him? How can you even think of sharing future years with him? and the all-important How can you think of having him in your bed again?"
I am beginning to wonder that myself, esp after the cr@p that WH has pulled in the last 2 weeks. I know I need Plan B and am so hoping that Family Court trial occurs next month so I can do this. Right now, I have to show that I am the cooperative parent who has DSs best interests at heart.
I'm so sorry you are struggling. Unfortunately that's part of the territory. And some days are easier than others. I came to terms that IRL, my friends weren't going to support me because they didn't want to see me hurt. It was the easier way. But the heart does what the heart does.
How can you want him in your bed. How can you still love him.
How can you hurt the one you promised to love forever and be with forever. How can you hurt your children. How can you be an a$$ and just do what you do.
Isn't it interesting how how can you be for both sides of the coin and mean so much difference. One is ugly and dark, the other is light and full of G-d. You can because you love him. You can because you made a vow to G-d. You can because you have learned on here about A and how they don't last etc.
Of course you will wonder yourself. I did. I did ALOT. Plan B for sure, although very scary and in some ways is the end to the marriage, is the way you can protect your love and when and if that time comes you can recover your marriage because you are in a healthier, more protected state and will learn things about yourself you can't even imagine.
Mimi taught me I was fighting a war. G-d is your leader. He will give you the strength to do whatever you need to do because you are doing it for the right reason. For your family, for your marriage. I did things that weren't necessarily how I truly felt, but I did it for the common good. I worked Plan A for a long time knowing full well I was preparing myself for Plan B. I did what I had to do to PROTECT my family. So, I applaud you for that strength and ability to do what is necessary.
I'm glad this post brought comfort because when I read it, I found comfort and guidance in it.
My prayer for you tonight is that you feel the protection of G-d and that you are doing the very best you can do.
I started Plan A unbeknownest to be almost immediately, without realizing that it was Plan A. In August I really started focusing on it as Plan A, in October I went into a "unprepared" Plan B. It was at that time I met up with someone very special to me, Mimi and she took me under her wings.
From that day forward I became very purposeful in my Plan A, knowing that I was ultimately going into to Plan B..
As you can imagine, what I did, was NOT what Dr. Harley suggested.
My boss was actually very intrigued which totally blew me away. She was asking all kinds of questions. Now... I go up to my 2nd job, the Amway deal. We shall see how I make the cut there.
Why yes she does. I was thinking about a tatoo, but the Jew in me doesn't really know yet.
Before I got my nose done, there was a lady there getting two head lights and a hood job pierced. I was told that the head lights are the most painful place on our entire body and if you can do it there you can do it anywhere....
Before I got my nose done, there was a lady there getting two head lights and a hood job pierced. I was told that the head lights are the most painful place on our entire body and if you can do it there you can do it anywhere....
Hi Queenie! (JT's glad to be waving because we didn't get blown away in the last two wind storms...another one is coming tomorrow)
Hi Lil, Rin et al-Queenie's nose ring really is very "Queenie" as she says-sleek and dainty, with just the right amount of glitter to be a true goddess.
Hi JT, Batten down the hatches because the wind and rain is a coming tomorrow night. The storms haven't been that bad down here, but you have certainly gotten the brunt of it.
And thank you for the compliment. Who knows, maybe a REAL diamond will be there one day.
I may have missed it, but I really want to know what your kids had to say about it??
Ladybugs would FLIP out if I did that! Although she has told me several times that I should get a tatoo. She wants one. I told her that when she was 18, we'd go together! ha!
Well, the boys were a little shocked and initially thought it was stupid. Haven't heard about it from them since. My D called me a rebel and said it looked good. So all in all, it was approved.
Well the last few days have been quite interesting. I got a call on Friday from the Assoc. Principal's office up at the HS. Now it doesn't take rocket scientry to know it's NOT GOOD, when it's my son calling me. His words. Hi mom, we kinda have a situation here and he goes on to describe it. Then the AP gets on and gives me her version. He evidently video taped a friend slapping a girls but on the friends cell phone. Add insult to injury and you have situation where these two boys, mine being one of them, hitting this girl on the butt a 3 to 4 other times. She thought she could handle it and told the boys to stop.
Now my YS is TRYING to say that he stopped hitting her. He is sadly struggling to grasp the concept of what he did was so wrong on so many levels......
You know me, looking for the FAITH in all things. Well you got it. What was the most awesome thing to hear was YS and H getting into it last night. Yes, yelling at each other. YS was being a JERK and H was calling him on it and not backing down. He was being a FATHER and reprimanding him for this. Another step towards our family healing.
I've been gone for awhile, working on some things for my mom and dad.
I just popped in to see how things were going in your life.
And you know what I see?
NORMAL. That's right. I see normal stuff. Kids in trouble. Not huge trouble, but stuff you'll look back on with the slap-her-butt-on-the-camera-phone and wasn't that funny kind of trouble ten years from now. Normal.
And to think when you came here.....how different........how not so normal..........how painful and now......how normal.
And you look at them yelling at one another and see
a father a son a family
and love your life.
I love your life now, Queenie.
You are living it. My daughter wrote a song that speaks to this - and the words say, "Every day you glaze right over that which brings you life"
But not Queenie
You didn't glaze it over. You saw it, and breathed it in.
Don't glaze it over. Even when they yell at each other, it does bring us life, doesn't it?
I've been gone for awhile, working on some things for my mom and dad.
I just popped in to see how things were going in your life.
And you know what I see?
NORMAL. That's right. I see normal stuff. Kids in trouble. Not huge trouble, but stuff you'll look back on with the slap-her-butt-on-the-camera-phone and wasn't that funny kind of trouble ten years from now. Normal.
And to think when you came here.....how different........how not so normal..........how painful and now......how normal.
And you look at them yelling at one another and see
a father a son a family
and love your life.
I love your life now, Queenie.
You are living it. My daughter wrote a song that speaks to this - and the words say, "Every day you glaze right over that which brings you life"
But not Queenie
You didn't glaze it over. You saw it, and breathed it in.
Don't glaze it over. Even when they yell at each other, it does bring us life, doesn't it?
First, I hope your parents and you are ok. And I hope your life is going awesome.
Second. What an amazing observation and compliment. One that I personally want to repeat, because reading the word NORMAL is just simply the HIGHEST blessing possible.
And you are so RIGHT. I LOVE my life. I love what G-d has done for my M, my children, and me. I am so eternally grateful that this experience has made me a better person who continues to simply TRUST G-d and let him lead me.
No, schoolbus, you are so right. I don't glaze over it. I don't glaze over the minut miracles everyday with a new marriage, a new way to live and with G-d as my leader. I see the beauty each and everyday and am so grateful for it.
I see how even though things don't work in MY time, HIS timing. I'm grateful for yesterday when we worked TOGETHER at the AA gratitude banquet serving people dessert and just being with each other. Sitting at the end, holding each other's hand, being gentle with each other. I'm grateful for when someone comes up and says, seeing you two makes me believe in miracles or I'm so happy for you that you stuck through the difficult times. She wants what I have today, but she knows you have to work for it because she watched me work for it.
The most amazing gift of all for us BS's is NORMAL.... Thank you for noticing it schoolbus..
Take care of yourself and if there is anything we can do to help, JUST LET US KNOW...
You didn't glaze it over. You saw it, and breathed it in.
EXCELLENT observation School.....I think that this right here is why Miss Q is a HUGE inspiration to me. She delights at each detail. She marvels at simplicity of it all.....
They tell us..."Don't sweat the small stuff"....well, to me Queenie does the oppisite....She doesn't sweat the small stuff, but she also notices and relishes the little details that many of us, including and ESPECIALLY ME, take for granted.......
Your personal recovery Queenie is a testament for ALL of us.....
for normal. ITA its so great to only have the drama's we make for ourselves. And yes, people who would be parents, stepping up to the plate and PARENTING!
for Mr Q, and many for Mrs Q for watching, and like Mary "kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart "
Just stoppin' by for a smile and your thread didn't disappoint. This thread just glows these days and it's a wonderful thing. It is fantastic to hear the happiness in all that you're experiencing.
Hi Lil and L4, thank you for stopping by and giving me your words of encouragment. L4, your spirit to give back is always so inspiring to me because when I go over to your thread and read the pain you are in.... It touches my core because when I didn't have what I wanted, I don't think I was as giving as you are and I hope to be that way should I ever find myself in this position. Thank you... I still have my arms around ya.
Yeah Lil, the NORMAL life, no drama, just living....how awesome it is.
I subscribe to this thing called DivorceCare Emails. This is what I received today...
How God Uses Pain Day 341
Even though God did not cause your divorce or separation, He can use it for your good. Let's look at some of the ways He does this. Perhaps you have chosen paths in life that led you away from God. He can use the separation or divorce as a way to help point you back into a relationship with Him.
"When you want to have a close relationship with someone," says Cathy, "you spend hours of time with that person. That's how you fall in love with God. You get to know Him on a one-on-one basis. That's what happens when you're forced through your pain to spend hours of time praying for relief, help, and strength.
"I'm thankful I had to go through it. As horrible as it was, I would go through it again to be who I am now in relation to Christ. I'm a stronger person. I'm stronger in my faith. I'm stronger in my compassion for other people. I'm stronger in my commitment to the Lord and to my family. I'm a better person now.
"You couldn't have told me that then," continues Cathy, "I remember praying that I wouldn't grow anymore: 'Lord, this hurts too much. If this is for growth, I don't want to grow.' But I'm glad He loved me enough to let me suffer through that to be where I am now and to have the relationship I now have with Him."
The Bible says that every trial you face is an opportunity for God to show His goodness to you and for you to become more like Christ.
"We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28).
Lord Jesus, as I cry out to You in my pain, praying for relief and help and strength, I pray that I grow to be a better person�strong, wise, and mature in You. Amen.
I hope that those who read this find comfort in these words, because even though I replace G-d for Jesus, it's still the same.
Just desserts... Sometimes I think I got more than I was deserving of. However, I am truly grateful and like I promised G-d, I'm not squandering it away.
Bless you too PM...
Well MY FAMILY... Tomorrow is Thanksgiving and I'm saddened in heart and happy in heart at the same time. You see, I remember what it was like to not have my H with me and it sucked, it hurt, it was different and I didn't like it, BUT I got through it because you were here for me.
There isn't anything REALLY that people can say to make it better. You just have to walk through it and go through the day. Some of you will make it just fine and others will be sad, crying, hurting and just want it to be over. I survived two that way and the days weren't as bad as I thought, I surrounded myself with loved ones the first year (his sister's family) and then went and did something different last year. I'm so grateful I don't know what I would have done this year.
But I hurt for those of you who are hurting and just wish there was something I can do. Oh wait, yes there is. I have prayed, and prayed for most of the day, that for those of you who are hurting, that you feel G-ds presence even more during this day and weekend.
There are so MANY of you who didn't give up on me, didn't run out of patience with me, and made me look at the truth of life and how I had to move forward. You encouraged me, loved on me and yelled at me when necessary. Thank you for being in my life.
I am a better person because of you and I am so very grateful to G-d for you being a part of my life, past, present and all my tomorrows. Though you might be sick of me....
Please have the most joyous, very best Thanksgiving as possible and know that you are loved so much by so many and that G-d is shining his light over you with all his pride and love.
I just love reading your posts. You are such an inspiration to everyone here.
We're all on our own journeys. For me, knowing that my journey would offer me the opportunity to learn, grow and become a better person helped me with each step I took, no matter how painful that step.
It's not that I'm glad about being betrayed, or that I'm somehow pleased that BB had an A, but in order to move forward, I have to search for the positive in everything that happens to me.
Your posts always remind me to look for those positives and blessings in my life, and I know I have many to be thankful for.
Thank you for being such an inspiration to me and Happy Thanksgiving to you (even though being a brit I barely understand what Thanksgiving is ).
I love reading about you as you continue your journey & are reaping the joys of 'normal' life. Your ability to celebrate your blessings every day is a gift to us all.
On this special day that is set aside for thanks, let me say Thank YOU for being such a blessing in my life!
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. I so hope that you enjoyed the day or were able to make it through.
Did you feel G-d with you. Did you hear his voice telling you how much he loved you and wants for you. Did you hear the whisper from him saying to TRUST HIM because he KNOWS where you are going even if you don't.
I did. Today.... My heart, my words, my mind are too OVERWHELMED of LOVE, GRATITUDE and THANKFULNESS for today. It was a day that MOST PEOPLE didn't believe could happen. I wasn't sure. It was a day that MOST people thought I was stupid for hoping for. I wasn't sure.
Today, I was SURE that what we have been through has made us better people, because today I smell the coffee, I see the flowers, I feel the pain, cheer that happiness and TRUST MY G-D beyond anything I ever understood possible. Today as I sat in the car waiting for all three of the men in my life to get ready for the flag football game, I heard my H call my OS, son and it was NORMAL....
Today, I watched my three men get filthy stinkin dirty in the pouring rain laughing and playing with people in AA. And I felt G-d with me. Today, I came home and made Thanksgiving dinner - Queenie's Family Style and H and I laughed over the stuffing incident two years ago.
Who remembers when he was WH and I was deep in Plan A, and called him like Mimi told me too. He wanted me to GIVE him HIS FAMILY'S stuffing recipe. Oh did we all here have fun with that one. He got his family stuffing today. He got his mashed potatoes that he didn't have to go and fix because I lovingly took the time to make it like he likes it. He bbq the turkey and it was one of the best EVER. And we sat and watched football and then we sat at the table and I cried. And my son said it's because we are a together as a family.
You betcha it was. I cried almost on and off all day long for the gratefulness to G-d for what he did because did you KNOW, nothing is impossible for G-d. I continue to learn how to be patient. I continue to learn that I need to keep healing and learn about Queenie, because it can be a fine line of just being a wife and mother since I fought for that for so long.
I remembered today that G-d loves me just the way I am today. He is taking me on a journey that I just have to keep trusting him.
Thanksgiving has ALWAYS been my most FAVORITE holiday. Today G-d reminded my soul why and to that I say AMEN...
My deepest wish is that I could GIVE you ALL the blessings that I felt, experienced and rejoiced in.
How are you doing? Yeah, that recipe story was a valuable lesson. It was during that time that I didn't have any backbone to stand strong because I WAS the WIFE. I was so afraid of making him mad during that period. So I get when someone is afraid.
But you know... Mimi kept on me and pushed me just enough to realize that to get what I wanted I had to fight for it. And fight for it I did. Mark, TMTS - I MISS YOU, and Jamesus were awesome at picking out when I was expecting something. And even though I was scared and didn't want to do it, I pushed the fear aside.
My daughter and her BF are coming for dinner. She left me a text last night telling me that Thanksgiving just wasn't as good as my cooking. I sure did love hearing that. So, it will be my third turkey dinner in a week. Woo hoo... I won't need to cook turkey for a long time.
How are you doing? Yeah, that recipe story was a valuable lesson. It was during that time that I didn't have any backbone to stand strong because I WAS the WIFE. I was so afraid of making him mad during that period. So I get when someone is afraid.
But you know... Mimi kept on me and pushed me just enough to realize that to get what I wanted I had to fight for it. And fight for it I did.
Hi Queenie, I am doing well :-) enjoying a lot of time with the kids. The flood has come down finally - we still have most our things upstairs but will take them down in a week I'd say just to be safe. Now the situation with WH is a little confusing - I am not sure what to make of it yet. He is abroad since end of September - his contract is up Monday and get's reviewed - he has no other place to work - there is nothing out there for his experience - anyway he has started to call me again on a regular basis - the first 2/3 times I asked him if he wanted to speak to the kids but he would always answer that they could call him back the day after. Our conversations would be around 10 minutes - very relaxed, no attitude anymore from his side. Yesterday he called again and this time I didn't ask him if he wanted to talk to the kids and we talked for 20 minutes. I really enjoy to talk to him as conversation with him is one of my Top EN's but I am scared that I am putting my hopes up I guess... I have completely stepped away from any Instant Messaging with him as it doesn't do us any good - he always comes across harsh and maybe I am just interpreting it wrong as our conversations are not like this at all.
He is abroad now for 2 months and I can see a change in the last 4 weeks in his behaviour towards me if you know what I mean.
As you may know, I'm in D.C. leading a training. The building where the training took place was also the home to the radio station that carries the Redskins games. Their cars with the team's logo were parked throughout the garage. I stumbled upon the floor of the station and thought I'd try to get you some 'Skins schwag, but the station business office was closed. I instead settled for a picture of the van and sent it to you. Probably not the most exciting thing you've received in recent weeks, but just wanted you to know that every day while here as I got into and out of the van, I thought of you.
You sound great. I'm so happy that your Thanksgiving was as warm and wonderful as you deserved it to be.
You are very much on my mind.
Take care and I'll wave as I fly over your house on my way home tomorrow.
Hi Luna, Thank you, but geez I gotta tell you, you sound absolutely amazing and so healthy. You have to know how much an inspiration or examply you have been to so many of us on how to learn to walk through painful stuff and own your feelings, dissect them, and move on. Thank you for always being willing to face the hard stuff so we can learn how to ourselves.
Stronger, I think your name is about so many of us on here. Strongerthanbe4. This is so true in my case. I am a better person because of this period in my life. I wake up and always smelled the coffes, saw the roses, but I didn't appreciate it, not for the beauty of a son and father yelling at each other, or sitting here looking out my new bedroom windown with beautiful blue frigid skies, watching the moon in it's glory, or the trees slightly swaying or me waiting for the sun to come up so I can decide whether to deposit H's paycheck, go shopping, go to AA meeting and then stop by my friends house where all my "sisterhood" friends will be. I'm stronger than before because G-d broke me and continues to create in me the woman he always designed me to be because even if recovery doesn't last, I'm at piece with myself, my marriage and completely TRUST G-d. What he has given me is just so enough, and anything more is just complete blessing after blessing.
I'm stronger than before because I learned from my mistakes and choose to not go back to who I was because she just wasn't healthy and didn't carry the spirit of G-d inside of her.
I'm stronger than before because I am learning how to look people in the face and against all odds, against how crazy or stupid or whatever, I can tell them that it's ok, My G-d has it handled, he has his laws, he has his plans and it's just ok that I'm doing what I'm doing because the ONLY one I answer to today is my G-d.
And I'm stronger than before because even though I still mess up and aren't very g-dly at times, my G-d is a loving G-d who is patient and gracious with me and truly knows that I seek him guidance in all things and when the timing is right he helps me understand where I am wrong, what I need to do to change and helps me every step of the way.
I LOVE your name..... Because I think all of us become stronger than before in our OWN way. Thank you so much for your kind words and gracious compliment. It means alot to me.
Ah my Looking. How I wish I could take a copy of that picture and post it here. I LOVE YOU. One, for thinking of me and two, taking the time our of your horrendously busy schedule to send me that.
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The building where the training took place was also the home to the radio station that carries the Redskins games.
OMG - so close to Sonny, Sam and Michael. I know this station well as almost every weekend when G-d permits, I get to listen to this station over the internet and follow each game. They are SO AWFUL this year that I just haven't seen them on tv. Thank you.... Thank you.... I LOVE the picture.
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Probably not the most exciting thing you've received in recent weeks
Ah, you need to stand corrected because in many ways, it is the most exciting gift. You got to be close to my team and that warms my heart. Even though they truly suck, even though I'm no longer skinsgal, the woman whose world revolved around this team, I still am a Redskins fan through and through and just am so excited you got to experience that van.
I'm right over the mountain towards Seattle, it's a crystal clear and unbelievable GORGEOUS day here, actually has been all week. So when you fly over, you throw down a kiss and I'll toss up a hug and kiss with best wishes for the sweetest welcome home from your family. I love you Looking. I hope you know how special you are to so many of us.
Queenie.... i was snuggles before that i was bella... i have been here with your, not and laundry boy for the last two years. Reading your thread has been an inspiration for me even in my down days. I have far fewer than i did before i am looking forward to the holiday's this year as i am taking my DD2 to disney christmas night when she comes home from WxH. I can't wait. I am glad you like my name and i choose it because 6 months ago i could not say that i was strong but i know today i am and a much better person for it. Thank you again for your pearls of wisdom. I love reading your posts.
NOW.... as for the redskins... you are sooo not not missing much... although i live near philly and got to watch them play crappy McNappy... they played really good against them for they way they have been playing this year. The game was close and they lost in the end of the 4th i was glad to see them on TV.
I hope y'all had a wonderful turkey day and keep up the awesome work.
I'm good Chai.... I just got home after shopping and then going to my friends house for a chanukkah party. One part is sad because I really am not a part of them anymore. I miss them, but our lives are just in different directions.
How's that Mark?
Laundry boy is that TMTS? Not is doing pretty well I think, aren't ya Not? I reiterate, I LOVE your name. It's so empowering.
You'll have to tell us how Disney Christmas Night is. You truly touch my spirit that my thread brings you comfort. I'm so glad. It's so important to me that people realize that there is hope, faith and trust in any situation. Maybe the outcomes are what we wanted or planned, but if you hold tight to G-d you can get through anything, in HIS time.
I definately will. I can't wait to take my daughter there i hear the lights are awesome down there this time of the year.
as for things happening on God's terms... you are absolutely correct. He has a plan for everyone and everything just can't rush it. I am happy in some ways and sad in others about the divorce but the plankton (as my friends call him) is now living with his OW her son and the son's father.. aka ex fiance number 1!!... he is definately not the same person i had known and people tell me it sounds like more of a hastle for him to have our daughter. It's sad but she is with me 6 nights a week so i don't have to deprogram too much. Your thread has helped me over the months to know that recovery in every form is possible. So i thank you for your time and words of wisdom. Again and as always very inspirational to me!!!
Yeah, that situation doesn't seem to be the healthiest. Who knows what G-d has in store for you, your daughter and them.
I didn't think recovery was possible either. I didn't think that I could ever not think of my life without him, and I can today. I didn't think that I could imagine that when I am with him the A just seems so long ago.
Maybe it's because he is working his best to get healthy for himself and that G-d gave me the peace and serenity to KNOW it wasn't about me, when I blamed myself for so long. Stronger, those words of wisdom come from the people here who stayed with me, held my hand and pushed me when I needed it. My recovery is from HERE and AA and most of all G-d.
I'm glad that I can be of service to you. This very essence, serving others continues to be my focus in healing. I need to keep giving away what was so generously given to me or I am one selfish biotch who didn't learn a thing and isn't working the program of AA.
That's been what they have been doing all season... they get so close sometimes but just can't seem to hold it in the end. I think they will make a solid team in the next few years. They at times have a hard time playing as a cohesive team at the very end. Better luck next time!!
And my first reaction is to call/text WW and ask her what she thought of the game (she's a fan, too). Of course, I'm indigo DARK at this point (and beginning to get used to it).
I am seriously intrepid about posting this. But contemplated for two to three days a friend of mine told me about this website. I have read some of the articles, and there is a lot of truth and straight forward candor here. So that is the sole reason why I choose to post this here in this particular forum. Maybe someone here that has "been on the other side" can share their whatever they choose to.
Almost two years ago. After my STBX and I decided to get a D. and eventually the word got out thru my work enviroment that I had chosen what I was doing. People and co workers offered their words of condolences, and such forth.. Well a person that doesn't work directly work with me, but a off set ancillary service. Anyway.. He told me that he understood what he was going through and if I needed to talk he would " lend a ear", so we talked at work when he came in, and long story short, yeah, you know what is coming,, " it happened",, yep go ahead,, I have heard all of names, heard all of the stories..
This was almost two years ago.But not a day doesnt' go by that I know on every conscious level, every remorseful level that I don't REGRET what I did...
My closet friends and other people who know me, say that I am being too hard on myself, that I have to let go and move on.. I have had oppurtunity to go out on dates, and " move on".. I am at more peace than I was almost two years ago.. But there is a part of a song " that the past won't let you choose".That hits the nail on the head,... I never used to be one of " those people", granted there are people, too many unfortunately that does this sort of thing on a regular basis, why? I don't know, and probably don't want to know. But even one event, forever changes you.. My one big regret,something that has changed me and changes my STBX. He had the right to know and I refuse to stand behind my mistake, I think that fact alone has made me alot stronger....
Anna, Why not start your own thread? I'm a little confused by your post. You are divorcing and while you waited for D you cheated on STBX? Why has D taken two years? Do you have kids? Are you seeking to save your M?
Almost two years because just a matter of logic. I make way more than he does. And his lawyer tried to get a lot more than what STBX was entitled to.. Yes I have two amazing little people. And no! am not seeking to save my M....I am stronger for the ordeal,
Fred, I am a Redskins fan by birth. I was born in DC and my parents had gotten season tickets before I was born. My tickets will be 50 years old next year.
However, I live near Seattle, WA and no matter what, win or lose I LOVE THIS TEAM...
I truly understand your feeling about wanting to text your W over this game. When Sean Taylor died I was devastated when WH didn't even acknowledge it to me. It was heart breaking.
Mark, I totally understand where your loyalties lie and would never imagine you comprimising what so ever. LOL
And might I say. You are the most amazing supporter of me. I am forever grateful for so much that you have walked me through.
This loss in a way is a Plan A chance for me. The woman who came here, skinsgal wrapped her life and soul around this team. Back then if they played this kind of game and lost this way, life around our house would have been tense to say the least. Today, my H commented on the changes in me because I'm no longer skinsgal, I'm Queenie and yes it was a bummer. But the miracle is that I have a husband to share my life with and that's just so way more important. And he feels the difference. Woo hoo...
That's been what they have been doing all season... they get so close sometimes but just can't seem to hold it in the end. I think they will make a solid team in the next few years. They at times have a hard time playing as a cohesive team at the very end. Better luck next time!!
It's interesting, it hasn't been just this season, but they haven't had the KILLER instinct for MANY years. Until they develop that instinct to finish it off no matter what, I don't think they will go far at all. I will say that absolutely looked way better than I have seen all year long. Their offense moved the ball reallay well, the wide receivers were catching and making plays. It was just an awesome offensive output. In the 60's they would find ways to lose in a fun manner. Today reminded me of those games in the 60's.
It was exciting, if you saw the game, come home, how often can you see an interception, strip followed by a TD on the Saints. Those happen to good teams.
Is Zorn the problem, don't know. I think that he is gone at the end of the year, but I will say Snyder needs to be gone too. He is really the problem.
And my first reaction is to call/text WW and ask her what she thought of the game (she's a fan, too). Of course, I'm indigo DARK at this point (and beginning to get used to it).
You can talk to me. I know it's so hard at first in Plan B and the urge and desire to contact them is great. But DARK is the ONLY way to be. For you and for the marriage.
I got this in my email this morning... It effected me deeply to remember HIS TIMING...
God's direction and timing is always perfect and always with a purpose - but it's often with a purpose we may not initially see or understand. Even when we earnestly ask for direction through prayer and the study of His Word, God's answers are usually not what we expect and are often perceived as slow in arriving. However, His direction and timing still remains, always perfect and always with a purpose.
God called Abraham to follow Him when Abraham was already seventy-five years old. But God blessed Abraham with great abundance and soon promised he would have many descendants; "I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted" (Genesis 13:16).
Although this was a wonderful promise from God, it certainly did not seem possible. Not only was Abraham an old man, but his wife, Sarah, had never been able to have children and was now long past the normal child bearing years. Therefore, when Sarah failed to become pregnant - when God's promise was apparently going to be unfulfilled - she formulated a plan to "help" God.
Genesis 16:2 "The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her."
Since this was an accepted practice and seemed like a reasonable way to fulfill God's promise, Abraham agreed. Not surprisingly, great tension soon developed between Sarah and her maidservant. This tension increased when Ishmael was born and even continues today with the unfortunate hostilities we see in the region of the Middle East. Abraham clearly heard the call and promise of God, but he became impatient with God's timing and resorted to a worldly solution.
It was another thirteen years before God fulfilled His promise through the birth of Isaac. These were thirteen long years of waiting and wondering if God had forgotten...but God's direction and timing is always perfect and always with a purpose. With Abraham one hundred years old and Sarah ninety, the birth of Isaac left no doubt that God was in complete control and guiding the events in Abraham's life.
In a very real sense, we are foreigners in this place and time; "Aliens and strangers on earth" (Hebrews 11:13). We will never understand how all the pieces fit together until we stand before the Creator of the Universe. Until then, we must continue to love and worship Him with all our heart. We must continue to seek His face and ask His guidance for every step. We must continue to follow His direction and patiently trust His timing.
I'm swamped at work, please forgive me for dropping and running. But this is another good one..
In the message "Patiently Trust His Timing" we considered Abraham and Sarah as they waited for God's promise through the birth of Isaac. Waiting for God's direction and blessing can be a great test of our faith, but waiting on God for our rescue can be an even greater challenge.
There are three great storms detailed in the New Testament. The first occurred when Jesus was crossing the Sea of Galilee with His disciples. Jesus was asleep when the storm began, and the disciples became afraid and woke Him: "Lord save us! We're going to drown!" (Matthew 8:25). Jesus rebuked the disciples for their fear and proceeded to calm the storm; "You of little faith, why are you so afraid?" (Matthew 8:26).
The second storm occurred immediately after the miraculous feeding of over five thousand people. This time, Jesus sent the disciples across the sea by themselves. When the storm rose up, Jesus went out to meet them...walking on the water. As Jesus again calmed the storm, He spoke the same message against fear; "Take courage! It is I. Don't be afraid" (Matthew 14:27).
The last storm occurred about thirty years after Jesus was crucified. Paul had proclaimed the gospel through much of the Roman empire and was being transported by boat to stand trial in Rome. A storm arose which blew the ship terribly off course. The ship was battered and tossed for several days; "We finally gave up all hope of being saved" (Acts 27:20).
It must have been difficult to trust God's timing as the storm continued through the many long days and sleepless nights. But as hope was fading away, God sent an angel to Paul with a familiar message.
Acts 27:23-24 "Last night an angel of the God whose I am and whom I serve stood beside me and said, 'Do not be afraid.'"
There may be times when our ability to trust is severely tested. But our faith in God - in His ability to hold us secure - must be independent of the force of the wind. Though the winds may blow, we remain in His hands and must not fear; "If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, but even if He does not..." (Daniel 3:17-18).
Most storms last longer than we prefer. But our Heavenly Father is leading us to the place where we can have peace, contentment, and even joy, whether the sun is shining or the storm is raging. He is calling us to be free of fear; calling us to trust Him more and experience His calm within the storm.
Well, well, it's been quite a weekend. First off, :happyhanukkah: to those who celebrate. I hope you have been having a good one. I have been busy being quite the Plan Aing wife. I'm not really sure if you call it Plan A'ing, but I can tell you that I have been a busy little beaver depositing into his LB. And it's been fun.
It's so weird, I have been extremely emotional all weekend long, not sure what's driven it other than pure gratitude to G-d. It's been 6 months since we have "officially" been back together. So much has happened and so much not still. And FOR ME today that's ok.
Some might say I'm settling. Some might understand because they know all I wanted was a chance to create a new marriage, be a different wife, mother and woman of G-d and I am living that chance, to be the absolute best of my ability.
Everyday that I wake up I realize how lucky and fortunate I am to have this chance and yet, it's not because of really anything I did, it's because and continues to be because of G-d. My first priority is pleasing him and serving him in all ways. And I am confident that if I keep my eyes on him, then rest will be ok no matter what happens.
So, where am I today. Well, my DD sent me a voice text on Friday of my grandchild that's due in May. Don't know what it is, but it's was just so amazing to hear that heartbeat. My OS is out today celebrating his one year anniversary with his GF, though the anniversary isn't until February. He leaves February 8 for the Navy, so they are celebrating today. My YS, after having a 3 day suspension for sexual harrasment, not cleaning up by getting the work done that he missed, has been around all weekend long because he was sick on Friday.
Putting on big girl pants is not something that comes easy and it's exactly what H and I have been doing this week. We began our financial recovery from the wreckage of our past. I'm sure many of you have no clue about this, but some do and for those who do, can appreciate how hard this is for us.
We are constantly in contact during the day and he continues to be transparent and accountable in anyway that I need. I have continued taking pictures with that camera of mine and G-d simply blessed this area with the most amazing pictures. Today culminated in snow. Woo hoo..
Earlier this week I found pictures of crack ho, really obvious pictures and sent them to a few of you on here. It's nice to know that she really did fit the bill rode hard and put away wet. I'm not sure what to do with the pictures, but I can tell you that I'm not as bothered by them as some thing I should be.
But that's me...
I will be honest, my weight continues to be a harsh thing for me. Again, some will not understand and just think if I do this or if I do that then I'll lose weight. Fortunately there are people in my life who do understand that absolute daily battle I fight in this and have not given up. I will say I hold the resentment that were I skinny with anorexia and just as sick, the only difference is that society looks at them and see them as ok. They look at me and see a loser, disgusting, sloppy, etc. Oh well, what I know today, is that I am exactly where I need to be and as long as I keep asking G-d for help, I'll be ok.
Shabbat morning started out with H going to work and leaving me alone for the day. I got up did the domestic Goddess deal, then sat at my computer and looked for pictures to be made up for hanukkah presents for my family. Then I went shopping and surprised my H at work. I have to admit, there was a part of me that wondered if he might not be there, but not only was he there, but he was so EXCITED to have me surprise him.
I met his boss and and GF. Turns out she and I work in the same business - education. She is a wonderful woman, so friendly and warm. We got along amazingly. Yes, in the back of my mind, I wondered how crack ho would have fit in. Fortunately for me and G-d, I don't have to find out today.
I came home and went back to being the domestic goddess again, this time making latkes, clam chowder and the special mud pie that he liked so much last weekend and asked me to make again. We stayed home last night and watched the Polar Express movie together with my YS. What a sweet night to be together and I cried. For those of you who have seen the movie, the part where he is just supposed to believe. Well, yep it reminded me about how most people thought my walk was stupid and that I should give up, but I kept BELIEVING, I kept my FAITH and I put my absolute TRUST in G-d. My boys laughed at me, but my H held me because he understood.
This morning we slept in late, then he made fresh coffee with his new coffee grinder and then I got up and made him french toast for breakfast.
We sat around watching the snow, enjoying each other's company, laughing, and then went to a good bye party together. We came home where I got to listen to the rest of my game - which happened to be his favorite team. We won....
We came home and I made latkes again for dinner and then gave him his third gift in as many nights. A picture of him and his boys from the Turkey Mud Bowl football game on Thanksgiving morning in a frame that said Family Memories on one end and Cherished Memories on the other corner.
So... in the final analysis. Am I getting all my needs met, NOT YET. When I get impatient I seek G-d a little stronger, a little harder, a little more deeper and ask him for help. I get my needs met from my G-d. His actions continue to be too slow for me, BUT they are consistent.
Last week I expressed a need I had and he made a conscious effort to meet them.
For all intent purposes there is no more LB on my side and I am deposited into his lovebank and RAPID rates.
Will my marriage make it. I honestly don't know. But, it won't because Queenie did anything. You see for ME, this has been a journey about growing up and being a better wife. I am giving my ALL. I am being the best wife I am capable of being and I am so grateful that I got this chance. We are toying with what our plans our to celebrate our 26th anniversary. I think personally that since he missed the last two it should be BIG.
But...
I'll ask G-d and see what he WANTS.... He matters most...
The only sad part is that for so long I was on the other side with Chai, Hope, Holy and many others. I continue to read their pain and struggles and know there isn't anything I can do to make it better, because for all the love and support I got, it wasn't what I wanted. And I just understand that as a given. I'm not sure how to help people today. I'm not Melody who knows what to do when, I'm not awesome at quoting etc. But if you are new and reading this. I worked every part of these plans and was as still as a person can be. I know about the fun things to do in Plan A. I know the hard parts of Plan B when you want to do something and you can't because you need to be dark. I am learning about recovery. Many on here don't believe I am in recovery. But over on Looking's thread Mark said...
If your marriage is based on care, protection, honesty and time then it has a pretty good chance of making it. I asked my husband the other night what he thought were the most important parts of marriage. He got three out of four. Does he work the principles - yes... but he doesn't know it and that's just fine by me because tonight, we crawl into bed together, we say our prayers and I get to thank G-d for another miracle day.
I am so glad for you and I pray that everything continues for you and your husband. Looks like God has blessed you so far. I learned alot yesterday from surfing the web and reading my bible. The one thing I learned is that tribulation worketh patience;and patience,experience;and experience,hope. It appears that you have experienced all of this and I am just starting, but I feel everything will turn out right because I am leaving it in His hands.
Hi Queenie, Great news in your posts...two steps forward...maybe an occasional one step back...but PROGRESS.... remember how long it took for most of us to "Get it"
The days and weeks of people posting the same thing seven different ways over and over until God sends the same words to be said by someone in a different way and the lightbulb went on above our heads Your H is getting close.
After I read your posts in my Inbox this came... for some reason it seems to apply for you... and...through you....me.
Daniel 3:16-19
(16) Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. (17) If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. (18) But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up." (19) Then Nebuchadnezzar was full of fury, and the expression on his face changed toward Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. He spoke and commanded that they heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. Copyright � 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
They could see the rage in Nebuchadnezzar's face, but they also saw God. Where did their powerful conviction come? This kind of conviction does not arise "on command," at the spur of the moment. It is the product of the demonstration of God in the lives of these three young men before this time, before their lives were on the line.
Their faith had grown and matured over a period of time.
God is always the same. What God says through Paul in I Corinthians 10:13 applied to them just as it applies to us. God knew what they could endure. They also knew that He would provide a "way of escape." Because of this, they told the king, despite his threats, "Even if God does not choose to protect us, we still are not going to bow down to your image."
Have we ever considered why more "mighty deliverances" do not occur to us? It is because we spend so little time fellow-shipping with God that we do not see Him as an immediate and vitally important part of our lives. As a result, the physical "evidence" we see around us overwhelms us.
YOU my friend ignored all the physical "evidence" that some people (while meaning the best) kept pointing out to you to "prove" that your marriage couldn't get to the point it is at today. YOU my friend continued to trust that God had a "mighty deliverance" planned for your marriage from the flames of the affair. And you CONTINUE to wait for Gods "mighty deliverance" for the parts of your marriage that haven't fully recovered. (YET) And you continue to trust that God knows what you can endure. You also KNOW that He would provide a "way of escape." if his will is different from your wishes
Queenie...Thank you.... I just want you to know that you are inspiring me to trust the same things in my life. I am facing something that has some VERY hopeless "physical evidence" trying to break my faith. BUT.. I KNOW you know that nagging little voice that tells you that God has a plan... and as we all know HE IS GOOD and HE IS PERFECT as is his plan for us!! PRAISE HIM!!
Your posts touched my heart. I can't tell you how much you have helped me just by being you. You are definitely a role model on the board, and one of the most beautiful women I know. Your H was a fool and he now knows what a gem that he has.
Get rid of the pictures of crack-ho. She is the insignificant past now. Besides, I don't know how you even look at the pictures and not hurl. Woof!
And I believe G-d knows what WE can endure, but that he also overwhelms us at times to give us that nudge to SEEK him for guidance and to walk through it.
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YOU my friend ignored all the physical "evidence" that some people (while meaning the best) kept pointing out to you to "prove" that your marriage couldn't get to the point it is at today. YOU my friend continued to trust that God had a "mighty deliverance" planned for your marriage from the flames of the affair. And you CONTINUE to wait for Gods "mighty deliverance" for the parts of your marriage that haven't fully recovered. (YET) And you continue to trust that God knows what you can endure. You also KNOW that He would provide a "way of escape." if his will is different from your wishes
I so totally understand this and walk it truly. People think I am NUTS for waiting. I choose to believe that G-d grants me those qualities to be prepared for when he truly heals my marriage in ALL WAYS...
Yes I do continue to wait al the while I continue to not miss what he does give me and bless me with. The little things that make up the bigger picture when truly looked at. Not just in his words, but his actions.
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I just want you to know that you are inspiring me to trust the same things in my life.
How often are we grateful that we can be USED to be of service to G-d and hopefully help someone else. Frank, your support, your continued knowledge and ability to asses things as they are happening are a blessing for me. You help solidify what I believe, what I trust and walk in faith of, but not always sure about it until it's put in black and white. So thank you.
Thank you so much Chai. I care so much about you and hurt for you. I have watched you walk, struggle and continue to move forward. I wish I could get you to trust G-d more and understand how much he is THERE for you, but that's not in my control. Praying for that is.. and I continue to daily. I love you so much.
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Get rid of the pictures of crack-ho. She is the insignificant past now. Besides, I don't know how you even look at the pictures and not hurl. Woof!
When all seemed hopeless you rose from the ashes like the Phoenix and now you are starting to soar.
So happy you stayed over here where we get inspiration from your story. You rock and on days when I am in that black hole I say to myself Queenie did this and I can too.
I know what a battle it is with our weight. It is a struggle for myself too; especially when you are trying to cook/bake all those dishes that your FWH loves. As you turned over your M to God you need to turn that over to Him also. It does help me. I ask him when I feel the need to stuff to fulfill whatever stress I might be experiencing to replace it with filling me with the Holy Spirit. It does help. I try not to use food as a crutch as I have in the past.
P.S. Before you destroy the pic -- where is my copy of OW...tee hee.
During the time of the Judges a man named Gideon (Judges Chapter 6) was called by God to put an end to the suffering of God�s people at the hands of the Midianites. Gideon was not a great military leader at that point or even a very powerful man. His family was from one of the weakest tribes in all of Israel.
When God told him to lead an attack against the Midianites, Gideon was reluctant, citing all that was going against him. God answered him: Verse 14 The LORD turned to him and said, "Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian's hand. Am I not sending you?"
God basically says, �Look, Gideon. I�m the one sending you to do this. If I say that you�ll come out the winner in this battle, then you�ll be the winner. Anything you can think of as to why it won�t work is because you are looking at it as if you were the one at work here when it is really I who will bring defeat to your enemies.�
Gideon again pointed out that the odds were not in his favor: 15 "But Lord ," Gideon asked, "how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family."
God�s reply to him: 16 The LORD answered, "I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites together."
So Gideon gathered up a bunch of farmers and shepherds, 32 thousand of them, and set out to do battle. Along the way, God wanted to be sure that everyone knew exactly who was doing the fighting so he had Gideon tell them all that if anyone was afraid they should go home now. So 22000 of these less than crack troops went home. So NOW, Gideon only had ten thousand left to fight with.
And God stopped him again and told him there were still too many men and they might think they were mighty warriors if they fought the battle now. So God used the way the men drank water from a stream to pare things down a bit more. The result was that Gideon was going to battle with three hundred men; none trained soldiers, against the forces of Midian, the Amalekites and their other allies from the people east of Israel.
As Gideon and his men began their attack, their enemies turned on each other and the result was a resounding rout. Thousands of trained troops were defeated by a reluctant leader and 300 farmers and shepherds�
And the Hand of God.
When Samaria was under siege by the Arameans (2 Kings 6 & 7) during the time of Elisha, and famine had depleted everything in the city and all looked hopeless, God raised up 4 men to provide the salvation of the city and the defeat of their enemies. These 4 men were not military leaders or political leaders. They were the lowest of the low. 2 Kings 7:3 Now there were four men with leprosy at the entrance of the city gate. They said to each other, "Why stay here until we die? 4 If we say, 'We'll go into the city'-the famine is there, and we will die. And if we stay here, we will die. So let's go over to the camp of the Arameans and surrender. If they spare us, we live; if they kill us, then we die."
Here were the poorest of all men in a city that had nothing left at all. While the city had food they were reduced to begging for existence. Now there was nothing left to beg for. Even the handouts of the wealthy were done. There was nothing left to do but to face their enemies.
Of course God caused the Arameans to hear the sound of thousands of troops coming with horses and chariots and they ran for their lives. Not only were the 4 lepers saved, but they returned to the city and told the king's men what they had found and before long the city had more food than they knew what to do with.
God often waits until we reach a point where we have nothing left before He acts. When He performs a miracle He makes certain that we understand where the victory really comes from. By waiting until we have exhausted everything in our own strength before acting on our behalf, it shows His mighty power and strength lest we should think that we actually had a hand in bringing about the miracle.
When He calls us to do something, He isn�t worried about what we think we can contribute to the cause. If we had what it required it wouldn�t take a miracle by Him to pull it off. Our station in life, the power we have or don�t have and even the help of others all stand in the way of God acting to bring us victory. It�s only when we have reached the end of ourselves, exhausted every avenue of handling it on our own and even the help of those around us has dried up that God can step in and show us how great He really is and how much He loves us.
It�s when the oil has run out and we only have enough left to get through the day that He will provide what we need on a daily basis until the task we were called to do has been completed.
He�s still doing miracles today, when we get out of His way and let Him have control�
God basically says, �Look, Gideon. I�m the one sending you to do this. If I say that you�ll come out the winner in this battle, then you�ll be the winner. Anything you can think of as to why it won�t work is because you are looking at it as if you were the one at work here when it is really I who will bring defeat to your enemies.�
I'm laughing because I truly believe that's how G-d talks to us and we just don't hear him.
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God often waits until we reach a point where we have nothing left before He acts. When He performs a miracle He makes certain that we understand where the victory really comes from. By waiting until we have exhausted everything in our own strength before acting on our behalf, it shows His mighty power and strength lest we should think that we actually had a hand in bringing about the miracle.
So very true... So very true...
Oh Mark, this is perfect. thank you... Chai... did you read this? It's perfect. Read what he is saying and know this to be true.
P.S. Before you destroy the pic -- where is my copy of OW...tee hee.
Me too Queenie!
BTW, your post about your struggles and other's perceptions had me near tears too... it was almost like the feeling you get when you watch a REALLY good movie and the good guy finally wins in the end.
You never know what they might be infected with...
your computer will end up with a VIRUS of sorts from her!!!!!
On top of the Hep C?
Oh goodness
NOT YET..... but I will when I'm ready.
PM - they are on it's way... What you said, brought tears to me. Thank you so very very much. You are SO VERY special to me and your encouragement, words of wisdom and presence makes me a better person in life. I love you so very much..
[quote]P.S. Before you destroy the pic -- where is my copy of OW...tee hee.
Queenie, Thanks for the mail...I would have posted sooner but I was blinded by looking at them
Ok now remind me again why you were jealous of her??? Now I understand it clearly when they say the WS are in a fog --- in your case more like a brick wall! Of course remember your OW could have paid millions like mine and look like a silicone plastic demented barbie doll.
In the time I have been on MB I have had several OP pics emailed to me.
Queenie, crack ho is officially THE ugliest pog I have ever seen. Proof that an A is all in the mind, cos damn, she sure is nasty. She even made PQ look good and thats saying something!
Flick looked and after recovering sight said something about 'swamp beast' and no paper bag could fix her problems.
When I came here I was skinsgal, a broken humiliated dry drunk angry woman who lost the only thing that really had ever mattered to her and didn't realize it until it was too late. The flat out truth is the problems that arose in my M were because I didn't honor my vows to G-d, forget my H and that I didn't protect, take care of, or nurture my M. I took it for granted. And so, I worked very hard to become a woman of G-d and metaphorphised into Queenie, who HAS to live a different way to continue healing from the WRONGS I DID.
What I did, sending many of you those pictures was so WRONG on so many levels. It was wrong for taking them and just not deleting them. It was wrong for character assassinating another human being regardless of what she has done and it was wrong because by doing it I was making myself feel better because I my self-esteem is taking a beating because I'm unwilling or unable to work on my weight.
This apology is for ME keeping my program clean and being that NEW person that G-d can be proud of. I am sorry for including you in my selfish needs and hope you can forgive me.
Please don�t respond to this and somehow understand and accept that this is the RIGHT thing for me to take care of and clean up, and to then simply move on.
Stronger, I�m a drunk just like any other drunk. I did something wrong and for my own recovery needed to clean it up. It was only right.
On an interesting note for people who are hurting and don�t think the karmabus has it�s moment, this information may help you to have hope that G-d is taking care of us, even when we don�t really feel it or know it.
Last night after I got home H and I were in the bedroom talking about nothing really while he was poking his hand on craigslist and came upon a false advertising of a S10 Blazer and how he knew that it was false. I asked him if he had bought the S10 Blazer with her that she drives and he said yes it was originally in both of their names and he paid half for it. Ok, I am overlooking the fact that he spent money jointly with her, but he did mention that supposedly she paid him back, but he doesn�t remember.
He went on to tell me that afterwards he kept telling her to get it out of his name and have it in hers only. She didn�t do it and so he went online and took his name off the title. Interestingly, I�ve experienced this couple of times in conversations around her, as he explained the situation, there was such distaste in his words, comments and body. Which just always surprises me because it SO didn�t look that way on the outside; to me they appeared the HAPPY couple, soul mates, etc.
So this morning, after having just the most awesome UA time in bed he sets off for his day, I set off for mine.
I decide to pick up yesterdays mail and low and behold is a letter from an insurance company wanting over $2700.00 for an accident back in June and that because he didn�t have insurance he would now be driving on a suspended license until we cleaned it up financially and we can just pay it off in one lump sum or monthly payments of $250.00.
Queenie, not skinsgal thinks to herself. Ok, we can take on another wreckage of our past, but funny how H didn�t mention it to me. So in my new spirit I call him and leave a message about the letter and ask him to call me so we can work on this together. Truly no big deal which is just so different for me because in the past I would have LB�d the whole way not to mention completely stress about it blah blah blah.
He calls, I give info and he goes on to say that it�s not him, it�s her and he will call them and enlighten them. He texts me back, says the state didn�t update the information, the insurance company knows this has nothing to do with him and she now has ANOTHER accident on her record with NO insurance, driving on an already suspended license..
So this morning, after having just the most awesome UA time in bed he sets off for his day, I set off for mine.
Glad you were able to keep your calm Queenie nature during what could have been a major LB reaction. While I'm happy that this interaction went well, the 'cautious' side of me needs to remind YOU to be cautious too! It's almost a bit too ironic that he was looking at the S10 on Craigslist and the next day you see a letter in 'yesterday's mail' about that very thing.
Please don't get me wrong, I trust your judgement of the entire situation. You are there with him. You can see his reactions and evaluate them for yourself. Just be careful my dear. We know that there will be little bits of data come out from time to time about what went on that he hasn't specifically remembered to tell you about. It's bound to happen.
Just don't let yourself overlook, perhaps, the reason for him sharing the information with you at a particular time (i.e. when there's a letter in the mail that will be bringing up the subject). Again, don't get me wrong, it is great that the 2 of you were able to talk and I totally give him credit for talking to you about the sitch!
Glad you were able to keep your calm Queenie nature during what could have been a major LB reaction. While I'm happy that this interaction went well, the 'cautious' side of me needs to remind YOU to be cautious too! It's almost a bit too ironic that he was looking at the S10 on Craigslist and the next day you see a letter in 'yesterday's mail' about that very thing
Ok, I'll be honest, that hadn't even occured to me it was a set up.
Actually the letter never said it was the S10 involved, so I first thought it was HIS suburban. It was only after I gave him the information did it say it was her, not him.
One other note... he looks are cars all the time on craiglists, he actually looks on craiglists all the time. I will say it's a habit he picked up from her He wasn't just looking at those cars, but it was when he commented on how the add was wrong that I started asking him questions.
Ok.... so having been totally blindsided by the A, I would NEVER say it's a ruse and not possible. Nor would it hurt to know that it was. I can only promise to keep my eyes and ears open and my mouth shut to see how it plays out. Thanks Bugs for the reminders....
Queenie, don't beat yourself up. We all take steps...some are baby, some are in the wrong direction but eventually we stay on the right path.
This was your first post here:
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First and foremost I am standing for my marriage. I truly believe that this is the path that G-d is directing me to take. I am proud of my Judaism, but this is a spiritual battle that I am willing to go to any lengths to fight.
You have been fighting the good fight ever since. I admire your courage, faith and strength.
Thanks Hope... G-d how I remember that time so well and how truly comitted I was. Someone emailed me a side of what Bugs was saying that I didn't get. Not that it was a set up to blind side me, but "finding a way to tell me of something he hadn't talked to me about before".
I have told him and TRULY mean this... There is NOTHING he can tell me that would have me walk away from our M today. Ok, one thing... that he needed me to let him go because he needed to find himself. And not because it was an A, but because the demon in his closet were too much for him to deal with. I know I haven't explained this well at all, but I understand and that's good enough for me.
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We all take steps...some are baby, some are in the wrong direction but eventually we stay on the right path.
I love reading about the normal-ness of your everyday togetherness. You're a family doing family things. You have struggles like many do, and you're dealing with them like some unfortunately don't.
Hi Queenie and L4(JT waving from the valley under the brightly lit cross)
Is tomorrow your last day at school/work Queenie? I'd love to get together during the break with both of you. Let me know if you have any time to hang out. Email would be best.
We are ALL special. We are all UNIQUE and we are all G-ds greatest miracles.
You HEAR me Chai....
Tonight, was a miracle night. For those of you who were around for my 1st Christmas without H, my sons took me to the movies and then as a gift took me around to see the lights. Since we are Jewish, we don't do lights, but we LOVE looking at the lights and it was always a tradition. I will NEVER forget my boys for that gift.
Tonight, H and I went to AA meeting and on the way home he took me around for the lights. Just the two of us. It was so incredibly awesome. But one more special thing about that. He and OW didn't go look at lights, so this got to remain something special between just us and our family.
Thank you so much G-d for the continued blessings you reveal to me each and every day. I love you so very much and am so grateful for the work you do in my life.
Merry Christmas everyone. Sleep well and enjoy your special day.
Chai, I want to HEAR about that DATE.... Just have FUN....
I'm so glad to hear that you are happily recovered in your marriage....I don't know what made me come here today but I'm glad I did.I don't have internet access anymore at home and work keeps a tight rein on us...I'm hoping to reconnect at home soon and will have more time to chat.
In short...my xh is still married to ow,was 1 year on the 21st dec...but Believer was soooo right...my kids have major issues with her and 1 of her kids,also his business which he started with ow,is in trouble...he is in debt bigtime....he is stressed to the eyeballs!!!
I am fine and getting on with my life.There isn't a man in my life although I'm not really interested...I would still like my xh back!!...crazy I know!! We do speak civilly to each other but I prefer to keep a low profile...He does know how I feel about him and our marriage though. Our last conversation,about 1 week ago,he told me all about his problems and I just listened...I think he needed to vent...this went on for 1 hour!!Finally I said he could come home and he said "his head is spinning right now he can't think of that and he doesn't want to hurt me "
Anyway his sister and her family are staying with me ands the kids for christmas and we are having fun....I'm working the morning shift at the moment 8am-1pm then going home to celebrate Christmas.I have so much to tell you...but first I'm going to catch up on you thread!!
It really feels good to be back here!...I never thought I would,to many painful memories
I was just thinking about you last night and hoping you were ok and what was happening in your life.
Gosh girl, I have missed you so much. Let's try and figure out a way to exchange emails and more private. I'll email the moderators and give them my email to pass onto you.
I MISS you so much. You sound good, I was so worried. I'm glad it's just not internet. You actually sound really good.
We are off to the movies, but I'll check back later and wait till we can really talk between us and get the real scoop.
It feels good to have you back. Yes, the memories are painful, but girl there are a lot of people who need you if you have time. Your sense of humor, your care and love.
I love you so much, I'm so glad you came stopped in. Merry Christmas, have a sweet and awesome day and let's hook up soon.
Merry Christmas, Queenie. Thanks for being there for me and the others during this year. You inspire us with your words of faith and hope and love ... You really do. Take care and enjoy this special day with your family. You deserve it, girlie!!!
Happy Holiday's to you and your family,Queenie. Reading your posts has really inspired me and gives me hope for the future. I know that I might never get back with my WH but I feel like I have a chance. I pray to God for strength and patience in my tribulations. Because of what has happened I have grown closer to God and i noticed that you did too. I believe that God does things to us to bring us back into the fold and to make us stronger. I have grown so much in the past 5 months and learned so much about myself and my marriage. I still have major ups and downs and I know this and I just try to get through the down days the best I can. I have learned to lean on my friends and family instead of suffering by myself. One thing I can say is that if my WH does return that he will find that I have not said anything ugly about him from anyone. Yes, I have said he was an idiot and stupid but that is the truth. I haven't called him one ugly name. I am going to continue on and take a page out of your book. Thank you for all of your insights. Still hoping and praying for his return.
BW-me 44yrs WH-him 47yrs OW 26yrs with a 2 and now 4yr old and still married married 20yrs together 21yrs DD 22yrs now DD 19yrs D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009 D-Day#2 7/26/2009 WH left 7/25/2009
Queenie - Where is the get together going to be? I am here until the 31st, and then am flying home for 2 months until my mom has another treatment in February. It would be so nice to see you.
I believe that God does things to us to bring us back into the fold and to make us stronger.
Traci,
I know Queenie won't mind a small tj here so I wanted to say this to you.
God doesn't "do things to us" in order to accomplish His goals. He does however allow us to do things to ourselves that He then can use to teach us to be like Him. He will teach us patience, love for those who hate us and will reveal His plans for us when He knows that we are ready. He has been ready all along but because we aren't yet on the same page as Him, He will delay revealing His will and plans so that we might learn what it means to rely on Him and Him alone for all that we need daily.
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Still hoping and praying for his return.
The shift in Queenie's world took place when she began to pray that God would give her a chance to become what He wanted her to be.
You see, no matter what happens to your husband, God wants to do something in you. He can do that only if you are willing to let Him do it. At the same time He wants to do something in your husband and in order to accomplish that task, He needs your husband to bend to His will. But what He wants for you is not dependent on what your husband does or does not do.
Remember Jeremiah 29...
Verse 11 is the one that can give us so much hope. It tells us that God has specific plans for each one of us and those plans are all for such good things.
But it is verses 12-14 that tell us what is the key to having those plans revealed and come to pass in our lives.
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12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back from captivity.----" (NIV)
Pray that God can work His will and have His way in your life and in your husband's. If God gets what He wants in our lives we find out that what we wanted was so puny and insignificant by comparison...
Thanks for this post (and small tj- which I am continuing- my apoligies Queenie). I really needed to read and re-read your post this morning.
I have felt myself, and recognized, a shift in my own focus away from God... and need to get back there. Over the past few weeks I have become very focused on OW and who she is, what she represents and her influence/effects on WH and in essence my family. Maybe it's the time of year, holidays and all, or the fact that I along with several close friends of mine (used to be WH's as well) thought that by now OW would have been history and the affair done. Regardless it seemed to culminate for me yesterday afternoon and I hit bottom again, and real hard... WH picked up our DSs for Christmas and in a blatant violation of visitation order (explicitly states there is to be no contact with OW), took them to OW's house for several hours.
Again, thank you! The timing of your post is just... Incredible.
[quote], He will delay revealing His will and plans so that we might learn what it means to rely on Him and Him alone for all that we need daily.
The shift in Queenie's world took place when she began to pray that God would give her a chance to become what He wanted her to be.
You see, no matter what happens to your husband, God wants to do something in you. He can do that only if you are willing to let Him do it. At the same time He wants to do something in your husband and in order to accomplish that task, He needs your husband to bend to His will. But what He wants for you is not dependent on what your husband does or does not do.
Mark
I'd like to pop in with a thanks to Mark for posting this. I come to Queenie's thread because I know that what you've said is truth and that Queenie is a testament to it. She inspires me.
When I find myself turning my focus from Christ to WH or OW I start feeling "stuck" yet again. But when I focus my energy on searching for His purpose in all this and keeping the door open for His will in my life, I feel peace. Why I keep returning to the pain, I don't know. Yesterday was hard for all BS's. That is understandable. But we can take to heart what Mark has reminded us of and what Queenie has shown us, dust ourselves off and start moving forward again.
Thanks Mark, I know after reading Queenie's posts that she won't mind what you posted. She inspires me and I thank you for your post. Funny thing is is that I felt fine yesterday and never had a bad moment and I thought I would cry off and on all day but I did not. I am trying hard to move forward and I think that I am but I do have some bad moments but I just pick myself up, pray and move on.
Three times yesterday I tried to reply to this thread and three times the wind kicked up and took out our electricity.
So suffice to say, it's G-ds plan to leave whats written by who wrote it because I don't have anything better to add.
Thank you for stopping by everyone and your continued support and input. It so helps me look at myself and keep seeking G-d daily to make sure that Queenie gets out of G-ds way.
Last night I went to my AA meeting and it was the most unusual topic. It started of about the big book of course, but then evolved into History with G-d.
What is YOUR History with G-d? I had NEVER thought about that, but I have history with G-d and I really encourage anyone who is reading that to look at it. Because if you have a histroy where you have felt his presence, you have seen his work play out in your life, then you have history and can call upon those memories to love on you and support you.
I'm struggling with something today and have been for a very long time. So, I hope that you will all who come to understand my walk give me a little room to work through this because I'm trying to understand and be helpful but seem to be missing the mark because I don't understand.
I am an alcoholic/addict and the number one killer of my disease is resentment. Resentments allow me to justify almost anything that isn't g-dly. More and more on here and maybe it's time for me to leave this part of the forum and move over to recovery, but more and more I feel the anger, the resentment in people and I'm not sure how to help or support. Was I just a push over, a fat ugly woman so desperate to get her H back that I would settle for the crumbs that many think he gives me or was I loving and compassionate to accept what he had to offer me TODAY and leave him in G-ds hands to work through his stuff.
I honestly don't know.
If my M wasn't on the mend and being created into a new gift from G-d would I feel, talk and walk the same feelings that so many of you rightly so walk. You have been hurt and destroyed in many ways and your pain and feelings are so REAL and RIGHT.
I honestly don't know.
Was it that my WH wasn't as evil as some of the others and I had it EASIER than most. Well, maybe so. But then I started reading my thread again and WH WAS a monster. He abandoned not only ME but MY CHILDREN. One of them he didn't talk to for OVER A YEAR. He missed his graduation. The WH threw me away like garbage or a used up old dog and kicked me to the curb. He withheld money from me, he left me to pack up a 3000 sq ft house while he LOVED on his OW. He left me to pick up the pieces of ripping apart our children's lives while he PUT HIMSELF FIRST. He cake ate, He cake took and he destroyed in his wake. I had to take him to court to support me and MY CHILDREN. Even Dr. Harley called him a typical wayward, BUT to the EXTREME. He completely walked away and for all intent appearance, NEVER looked back. And even when I have started to have recovery in my M, I still did something to hurt another human being, the OW. It didn't hurt her, it HURT ME.
I could have become angry, bitter and full of resentment. How was it that I just simply kept walking in FAITH and TRUST of my G-d.
I am SO NOT JUDGING anyone. I have NO RIGHT because I'm not in YOUR shoes. But I know that pain, I understand the DEEP HURTS, I have been in YOUR SHOES. Like passengers on a ship that has been shipwrecked, I understand.
This morning I was watching Joyce Meyers and she was talking about relationships, criticism and love etc. It hit home because I found that I have been picking up some old habits of looking to the negative on what H is NOT doing instead of building him up. It HIT HOME. So I went on her website and typed in resentment. This is what I got.
Bitterness, Resentment and Unforgiveness by Joyce Meyer
Many people ruin their health and their lives by taking the poison of bitterness, resentment and unforgiveness. Matthew 18:23-35 tells us that if we do not forgive people, we get turned over to the torturers. If you have a problem in this area or have ever had one, I�m sure you bear witness with what I�m saying. It�s torture to have hateful thoughts toward another person rolling around inside your head.
Helping Yourself and Others
Who are you helping most when you forgive the person who hurt you? Actually, you�re helping yourself more than the other person. I always looked at forgiving people who hurt me as being really hard. I thought it seemed so unfair for them to receive forgiveness when I had gotten hurt. I got pain, and they got freedom without having to pay for the pain they caused. Now I realize that I�m helping myself when I choose to forgive.
I�m also helping the other person by releasing them so God can do what only He can do. If I�m in the way�trying to get revenge or take care of the situation myself instead of trusting and obeying God�He has no obligation to deal with that person. However, God will deal with those who hurt us if we�ll put them in His hands through forgiveness. The act of forgiving is our seed of obedience to His Word. Once we�ve sown our seed, He is faithful to bring a harvest of blessing to us one way or another.
Another way that forgiveness helps me is that it releases God to do His work in me. I�m happier and feel better physically when I�m not filled with the poison of unforgiveness. Serious diseases can develop as a result of the stress and pressure that bitterness, resentment and unforgiveness put on a person. Mark 11:22-26 clearly teaches us that unforgiveness hinders our faith from working. The Father can�t forgive our sins if we don�t forgive other people. We reap what we sow. Sow mercy, and you�ll reap mercy; sow judgment, and you�ll reap judgment. So do yourself a favor�and forgive.
There are still more benefits of forgiveness. Your fellowship with God flows freely when you�re willing to forgive, but it gets blocked by unforgiveness. Forgiveness also keeps Satan from getting an advantage over us (see 2 Corinthians 2:10,11). Ephesians 4:26,27 tells us not to let the sun go down on our anger or give the devil any such foothold or opportunity. Remember that the devil must have a foothold before he can get a stronghold. Do not help Satan torture you. Be quick to forgive.
I also think it�s hard to hate one person but love another. It�s hard to treat anybody right when our heart isn�t right. Even people you want to love may be suffering from your bitterness, resentment and unforgiveness.
How to Forgive
Would you like to become more successful at forgiving others? There are practical steps that must be taken. One time I asked the Lord why so many people want to forgive but aren�t successful doing it. And He said, "Because they aren�t obeying what I tell them to do in My Word." As I searched the Word, I found the following instructions:
1. Decide � You will never forgive if you wait until you feel like it. Choose to obey God and steadfastly resist the devil in his attempts to poison you with bitter thoughts. Make a quality decision to forgive, and God will heal your wounded emotions in due time (see Matthew 6:12,14).
2. Depend � You cannot forgive without the power of the Holy Spirit. It�s too hard to do on your own. If you are truly willing, God will enable you, but you must humble yourself and cry out to Him for help. In John 20:22,23 Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, �Receive the Holy Spirit!� His next instruction was about forgiving people. Ask God to breathe the Holy Spirit on you so you can forgive those who�ve hurt you.
3. Obey � The Word tells us several things we�re to do concerning forgiving our enemies:
a. Pray for your enemies and those who abuse and misuse you. Pray for their happiness and welfare (see Luke 6:27,28). As you pray, God can give them revelation that will bring them out of deception. They may not even be aware they hurt you, or maybe they�re aware but are so self-centered that they don�t care. Either way, they need revelation.
b. �Bless and do not curse them (Romans 12:14). In the Greek to bless means "to speak well of" and to curse means "to speak evil of." You can�t walk in forgiveness and be a gossip. You must stop repeating the offense. You can�t get over it if you continue to talk about it. Proverbs 17:9 says that he who covers an offense seeks love.
Who Should Forgive?
Forgive the person who badly hurt you long ago and also the stranger who stepped on your toe in the grocery store. Take those two extremes and forgive them in addition to everyone in between. Forgive quickly. The quicker you do it, the easier it is. Forgive freely. Matthew 10:8 says, �Freely you have received, freely give (NKJV). Forgive means �to excuse a fault, absolve from payment, pardon, send away, cancel, and bestow favor unconditionally.�
When you forgive, you must cancel the debt. Do not spend your life paying and collecting debts. Hebrews 10:30 says that vengeance belongs to the Lord; He�ll repay and settle the cases of His people. Let God pay you for past injustices. Do not try to collect from the people who hurt you, because the people who hurt you can�t pay you.
Also, forgive yourself for past sins and hurts you have caused others. You can�t pay people back, so ask God to.
Forgive God if you are angry with Him because your life didn�t turn out the way you thought it should. God is always just. There may be things you don�t understand, but God loves you, and people make a serious mistake when they don�t receive help from the only One who can truly help them.
You may even need to forgive a situation or an object�the post office, bank, a certain store that may have cheated you, a car that always gave you trouble, etc. Get rid of all poison that comes from bitterness, resentment and unforgiveness. And remember Proverbs 4:23: Keep and guard your heart with all vigilance...for out of it flow the springs of life.
Unforgiveness is spiritual filthiness, so get washed in the water of God�s Word to forgive and stay clean.
My heart so deeply hurts for those of you who continue to suffer and be in pain from the destruction that your wayward creates. I don't know how to help, but I do know that my healing comes from G-d, NOT because my M is being created into something new.
My healing came from TRUSTING G-d more than I trusted any human being. I that you find healing very soon, today in fact in your walk.
I immediately thought of you and wondered how you were handling it.
oh wait, that was skinsgal... You meant me, Queenie... LOL
Well, as G-d is my witness and he is so PROUD of me. I watched the game, didn't yell, didn't cuss, didn't give up hope or love for my team. Yeah, I'm saddened because they are SO BAD and SO SICK as an organization, but then I walked away.
Ok, I left the post game show on... But I walked away ....
and played Rummy with my sons, OS GF and my husband. And I enjoyed the night grateful for the blessings of healing my family.
Some of her wisdom this morning... When you TRUST G-d you ENTER into HIS REST... I love this.
Whatever G-d gives to us he expects us to give it away. If G-d knows that he can get something through you then he'll be very happy to give it TO YOU...
So if you learn how to receive G-ds grace and mercy and forgiveness and you are willing to let it flow through you, to other people, then you leave that channel open to living a life that is so superior you can't even imagine it.
It's not good enough to stop doing what's wrong, you got to replace what's right in your life. That's when you see the changes in your life.
There comes a time in your healing that it won't affect YOU to read about the anger, hurt, resentment, bitterness etc of other BS's going through the betrayals. Right now I think it is too soon for you. I like that your thread stays up so others can be inspired. Perhaps for now you should update your thread and not try to help too many hurting people. FOCUS on your recovery and you will help others who are quietly watching you.
When this place affects your recovery efforts or your attitude it is time to log off and take a break. It is OK to take a break or even never look back. Really, it is ok.
I loved your message, Queenie, and I am listening. I am taking your message to heart and speaking to God again today on forgiving others. I will let you know that I don't hate or care about the OW because to hate her I would have to care about her and I don't. I never thought to forgive her for what she has helped to to me and my family because I blame my H. He didn't have to do what he did, he made that decision on his own. I forgave my H months ago and now he has to forgive himself. I have given everything over to God and I mean everything. I told Him to do what was necessary and to take care of my WH and help him because he needs it more than I do.
WH called my cell phone while I was at the movies with DD 22. Never returned the call. Still doing nothing about the WH since that is what God wants. God also told me to give it time last night.
I thought and prayed on this for a long time. My life is taking new direction. Some is amazing, like my new M that is being created each and every day and some not so amazing.
My weight and probably more to the point my lack of love for myself is taking me to places that I don't really want to go. So, getting a fresh start and posting about this part of my journey hopefully will give me new insight in to how to crawl out of the darker place.
I have avoided this part of my journey for a very long time, because as I figured out last night, I simply don't love or even like myself and it's crippling me in many ways, most importantly it's blocking out G-d.
That won't work for me anymore. So, Queenie has to REALLY learn to love herself but before she can do that, she needs to find herself and find what she likes. I've put so much energy into healing my family, creating a new marriage that I have gotten lost somewhere in the process and that's not healthy for anyone in the long run.
I have no idea how to go about this at all. My friend told me to start journaling. And I'm going to try and put down the bat on me long enough to hear G-d. My friend last night got me to see that G-d LOVES me just as I am today. Fat and all. That he accepts me just as I am because he knows who and what I am, so if G-d can love me just as I am, who am I to block out his love.
I'm not talking about that he wants me to learn to take care of myself and that includes losing weight, but I have to start somewhere and maybe just accepting myself as I am today can be a beginning.
Other than journaling, accepting... Any thoughts? What works for you?
Oh so, I forgot to mention this interesting item that came up yesterday.
The home next to our property has been worked on for awhile and I was checking craigslist to see if they had posted it as available. As it turned out, there was nothing posted for my town, so I thought I would check for Maple Valley. I looked at the old apt complex I lived in for really no reason and then went about my day.
When I got the mail, there was a nice little running a red light ticket for OW, however it came to US because H was on the original registration. Many of you might now know, but a couple of weeks ago I found out about this car that they "owned" together, but H told me he had put it in HER name. The next day a letter came in the mail that my H had been involved in an accident and it was determined he was at fault. Because he didn't have insurance he owed them over 2700.00.
No BIG deal, one of those "casualities" of wreckage from the past that would just take time to clean up. But he was adamant that it wasn't his car and he called the place and said the car belonged to OW and sure enough they insurance company took his name and responsibility off of it.
So, low and behold it is interesting that his name would appear on this ticket as the registered owner. We looked at the incident because it was photo taken and sure enough she ran that red light just as sure as day. Seriously, for someone who is driving on a suspended licenes, no insurance blah blah blah, she does take chances. Oh well her deal.
ANYWHOO....
As H went to look at the photo on the internet, he realized that I had been looking at apts and housing and it REALLY shook him up. He was asking me why was I looking at that stuff and was there something that I needed to tell him.
Where I realized that I had been worrying about him just walking out and leaving, he deals with that very same thought. He doesn't seem to be reassured and I'm not sure why. I can only continue to love on him, be as open and honest about what's happening for me, and leave him to G-d. But I gotta tell ya, it was really NICE to see him concerned that I might walk out on him. It shows me that he is becoming more and more "involved" for lack of a better word, in our marriage.
I have avoided this part of my journey for a very long time, because as I figured out last night, I simply don't love or even like myself and it's crippling me in many ways, most importantly it's blocking out G-d.
Wow Queenie.
That is painful for me to read, and hard for me to understand.
You are an amazing woman. You are loved. You are treasured.
Originally Posted by queenie
My friend last night got me to see that G-d LOVES me just as I am today. Fat and all. That he accepts me just as I am because he knows who and what I am, so if G-d can love me just as I am, who am I to block out his love.
Is it just he excess weight that has you down on yourself Queenie? If you have a lot to lose, it can seem like a monumental task and one that seems impossible to even contemplate, but it can be done. I think the trick is to set yourself small goals to begin with. Eat a little less and exercise a little more. Find somewhere to swim. It's so good for you and easy on the joints if exercise is a struggle. Many of the local pools here do a 2 or 3 sessions a week when it is only women allowed to swim.
The good news is that it is easier to fix what is on the outside than what is on the inside.
Think of the most horrible, selfish, nasty thoughtless, ill mannered and rude woman in a thin body. That person likely thinks she has it made and doesn't even appreciate the ugliness that is inside of her. People probably don't like her, love her or look up to her. They may comment that clothes look nice on her but what does that really mean. Nothing!
Think of you. Strong, kind, thoughtful, giving, caring, resilient, empathetic, nurturing and loving. You may come in a plus size but I know who I'd rather be.
Make small lifestyle changes and your frame will diminish. Your character and nature won't.
I hope you know that true and real love is all about the person inside and not the exterior. There's way too much focus on looks nowadays and not on character.
Thank you so much serendipitous. In my right mind I know all that you say and understand it.
But like a wayward and that's why it was so easy for me to buy into the addiction theory, I KNOW that but I don't live that. The ability to hurt myself over shadows the rational good thinking I have learned over these few short years.
Like it says in the AA big book, at some point I have to get down to the causes and conditions. Yeah, mostly it is my huge amount of excess weight. But I also know that it's not the weight, its the way I think or don't like me.
I love you too serendipitous... Thank you for saying what you did. Now I just have to allow it in and become a part of me.
Like it says in the AA big book, at some point I have to get down to the causes and conditions. Yeah, mostly it is my huge amount of excess weight. But I also know that it's not the weight, its the way I think or don't like me.
Not sure how correct I am here but didn't Oprah comment that she linked her battle with weight to issues from her childhood?
But, doesn't Dr Harley want us to change our behaviour now and not focus on what has gone on in the past that anchors us in past resentments and stops us from changing our poor behaviour?
I think I get that you say the excess weight is just an outward sign of some deeper unhappiness with yourself that you need to get to the bottom of?
What if you do as Dr Harley states we should in the MB programme, and just let that go and concerntrate on changing your behaviour for today? How do you think that might work for you?
I'm just thinking out loud here and I'm probably way off base but could you try to make the small lifestyle changes and see where that takes you with regards to the weight?
Do you accept that you are loved and are loveable? Why do you think you are so treasured here on MB? What is it that you don't like abut yourself? Weight aside.
What if you do as Dr Harley states we should in the MB programme, and just let that go and concerntrate on changing your behaviour for today? How do you think that might work for you?
I thinks that is what I am trying to say. For some reason I am UNABLE to see what others see in me. But more importantly, I am unable to see what G-d loves in me and that's what I am going to try and do.
If he can love me just as I am, and he created me for a purpose, then I just have to find out what he has given me that is so special.
Weight aside, actually I really like myself. For some reason, my weight seems to be the defining factor of how I think of myself. Interestingly though, when I lost the weight and felt better about myself, I went out and destroyed it. I'm so hard on myself. I expect way more of ME, than I would of anyone else.
I don't have past resentments. I worked through all those. I can't explain it, why I simply feel like a mistake. I am not doing a very good job of explaining it, I'm really sorry. And I so appreciate you talking to me.
There comes a time in your healing that it won't affect YOU to read about the anger, hurt, resentment, bitterness etc of other BS's going through the betrayals. Right now I think it is too soon for you. I like that your thread stays up so others can be inspired. Perhaps for now you should update your thread and not try to help too many hurting people. FOCUS on your recovery and you will help others who are quietly watching you.
When this place affects your recovery efforts or your attitude it is time to log off and take a break. It is OK to take a break or even never look back. Really, it is ok.
Thank you FF for this too, from me.
I like to keep the bulk of my reading over here in R, the pain in SaA is too disheartening. There is still heartache over here, but it seems to be balanced with lightheartedness and positive thinking. Both of which I might add ....... keep us going!
This will be a change for you over here, that's for sure. It will take a while to get use to, but I do think this is where you belong. You have been through the mill and in doing so you have acquired a wealth of insight, so much to be shared with us here.
So many of us face the same feelings/issues as we travel along in R, this is a good place to realize that we are not alone in our struggles.
Weight aside, actually I really like myself. For some reason, my weight seems to be the defining factor of how I think of myself. Interestingly though, when I lost the weight and felt better about myself, I went out and destroyed it. I'm so hard on myself. I expect way more of ME, than I would of anyone else.
Queenie.
We all have our own personal battles. You do sound as though you are very hard on yourself.
I often repeat to myself " Be grateful for the things I have, and don't waste energy striving for what I don't have", and it's important that we all place value on the things in our life that we have that are important to us.
That applies to us as people as well. I don't look like I did when I was 18 but I'm no less valuable. I can't run as fast or dance till dawn and get up for work an hour later. There are things I miss about being 18 but I'm happy being me, in my mid 40's slightly wrinkled and carrying some excess weight. I don't mind getting old because the alternative is much much worse. I try to keep my focus on the positives in my life rather than the negatives.
You like yourself, apart from the weight but became self destructive when the weight wasn't an issue. Why was that?
Weight aside, actually I really like myself. For some reason, my weight seems to be the defining factor of how I think of myself. Interestingly though, when I lost the weight and felt better about myself, I went out and destroyed it. I'm so hard on myself. I expect way more of ME, than I would of anyone else.
I think that our appearance is part of how we define ourselves, it is for me anyway. In MB terms, maybe it is that because I have an EN for PA, I hold myself to meet that one for myself as well as my H. (okay that makes sense to me but maybe not for anyone else!) As well, I want and like to meet that EN for my H. We feel better mentally when we are physically in better shape.
I can relate to you saying that when you lost the weight, and felt better about yourself, you then went out and destroyed it. I think this is common, I know that myself and many of my GF's, struggle in the same way. We lose, then we gain, we lose, then we gain, it's a bouncing game. It seems once I get down to where I like how my jeans fit, I take it for granted and have a nibble here and a nibble there of something that I shouldn't be eating. Then bam, my butt is harder to squeeze into those fav jeans.
Queenie you got your weight down before, it's possible to do it again. Vanity seems to drive me more than the health issue, but that one works to.
How did you lose it before? Do you have a friend that can join you in shedding some pounds, I find a team effort makes you more accountable to going for that walk, it's like an appt. that must be kept.
I suggest you try to accept God's love. Without any understanding, or needing an agreement that, God is correct, you are lovable. Faith is acceptance. Trying to understand God's love is beyond human capability.
Hey honey, I hope you are enjoying your vacaction!!...anyway, I wanted to let you know I have a surprise for you over in SaA. I hope you can take a lookey-see......
Thank you so much for your support. I have to be honest Pep, accepting what you wrote is really hard for me. It's so weird, I am having this most amazing conversation with my cousin on FB and she lived the exact same life I did, with verbal abuse, emotionless parents, living in fear etc and has so many issues herself. Weight isn't one of them, but drugs, alcohol, bad relationships etc are.
I went back to work today and it was hard and easy at the same time. It was just the teachers so it was nice to work into it easy. But I had to be there at 6 am and set up for breakfast. I didn't sleep very well at all.
H and I are both getting sick and when he gets sick, it usually turns into something more serious. One of the things I promised G-d was to be more loving and caring. I think I lied....
I'm a little sad the Redskins fired Zorn, because he is a favorite up here in the PNW, but they SUCK and I want to win games.
I'm avoiding the food deal for obvious reasons. I would surely like to get anorexia for a while...
I gotta tell ya, I am astounded by how much abuse ran in my family.... all sides of it.... I thought I was imagining some of it. Nope... My weight is protecting me. Somehow I have to intuitively have me understand I am safe and it's ok to be exposed as it were....
I'm not really a PA person, so that isn't a carrot for me...
Yeah, I have an amazing support system. It's ME... I don't want to do anything, but then I do? What I really want is that magic pill to give me the desire to do something with immediate results...
or I can sell it and make all the money in the world to order all of us up a cruise ship and FINALLY get to meet.
Count me aboard, please.
Queenie, the food/weight thing is something we've briefly discussed before. I know it's hard to change the diet and start an exercise program. Therefore, the change that I have recently made is doing the little things where I can. I'm not necessarily going out of my way, but making more of the opportunities that already exist in my life.
For example, when I go to any store, I park further away in the parking lot to force myself to walk a little more. I realize when it's raining here that's not a very attractive option, but water only hurt the Wicked Witch of The West and we're used to it, right? How far are you able to park away from your work building?
I return my shopping cart into the store.
I almost always look for the option to take the stairs up or down if it's two stories or less. When I get in better shape, maybe I'll up it to three stories.
I get the laundry basket or the drink from the fridge or the paper -- I do more of the little things that I otherwise ask my kids to do.
I get my salad dressing on the side and dip my fork into the dressing first before I stab the lettuce.
I use light mayo. I know I shouldn't use any mayo and I try to avoid it, but some things are not going to go away completely.
I check food packaging. I don't know all of the bad stuff and I suck at balancing carbs vs. fat vs. sodium vs. protein, etc., but I do know that high-fructose corn syrup is something no one needs in their diet yet it is in many of our everyday foods -- even "good-for-you" foods like yogurt. I avoid these foods whenever possible.
When I'm carrying in the groceries, I lift them just a couple of times from the handles straight out to the sides or bent arms in front -- as if they're weights.
I put my pants on and shoes and socks while standing verses sitting down. This improves balance which is good for your body and your brain.
I own four colorful, large tumblers that I use at work and home. I drink water. I drink water. I drink water. Great for the body, for weight management, and for your skin.
While standing in any line, I do calf raises for leg muscles and again for balance.
Start small and recognize the little victories. This is something I've had to recognize as I've tried to get back on the healthy path recently. Don't focus on the overall, up-hill battle of losing 50 pounds. That's a big, intimidating number. Instead, look at being able to make it up two flights of stairs instead of one. Revel in the fact that you lose 1/2 an inch from your waist. Celebrate making it around the track a little bit further than you did the last time, even if that further is 1/8th of a lap.
I'm measuring my success in weekly measurements. All I am asking of myself at this point is that I lose weight -- whether it's .1 pounds or 1.0 pounds or 10 pounds... My only expectation is to lose something. And over time it adds up.
These are my get-started ideas. I also cannot stress enough the benefits that getting enough sleep offers your overall health and weight loss/management.
Thanks again for lunch last week and your warm, direct, and supportive wisdom. Please let me know if there is anything that I can do for you.
I'll take that magic pill too, oh if it were only that easy ....
The cruise ship .... how great would that be, yup to meet all you MBers I have always thought would be the ultimate reunion. Of course I would have to meet you all in the ports since I don't do cruises, there is something about not seeing land in my view, freaks me out. I don't like water skiing any more cuz I don't like being left behind in the water, waiting for the boat to come back after I spill. I know .... I'm not right. Oh well.
I lost the most weight on that famous infidelity diet too, actually no that 's not true, I did Susan Somers diet a few yrs ago and actually got down to a great weight.
Queenie, you mentioning that when 'you lost your weight, you then went out and destroyed it', has made me think on this the last few days. I do the same darn thing. Why? One of the reasons I came up with, for me, was this .... I get down to a desirable weight, then I cheat, nibble etc., cuz I feel entitled, like I deserve that chocolate or those mashed potatoes with gravy. It snowballs after that. I get a wayward weight mindset, aka WWM .... but for some reason that has helped me not to cheat the last day and 1/2 anyway. I don't want to be wayward!
Well this has been an ICKY week. I have been so wiped out, sick or whatever. No energy, not a cold, no fever. Don't think it was the flu, but I went to work, barely concentrated, came home and went to sleep. I had the weirdest cough and it's still hanging on.
I HATE being sick. But the interesting thing.. H was very distant. I finally pushed him and he told me he was just worried. Hmmm. He never reacted like that before. Course I am usually healthy and very strong....
It's been a very windy weekend, not to mention nothing of the chaos that the Redskins created. If I didn't know better I swear the organization is alcoholic...But alas, the Seahawks have joined the race of insanity so it's kinda nice to see it somewhere else.
The weather was really a factor last night, cold, windy and rainy, we went to start a fire and smoke was billowing out from the sides, underneath, anywhere but up top. Lucky us got to open up the doors, cross air as the wind storm (which I am kinda grateful for since it pushed the smoke out so fast, but then there was the rain pouring in.), a fan and it was FREEZING....Not to mention a grouchy 17 year old DS who was frustrated, cold, hungry and not sure what to do. Ah.. G-d loves to test me doesn't he.
I didn't scream, I didn't yell, I patiently, well as patiently as I could piece by piece handled the situation then made dinner. H comes home, oblivious and walks into son's anger, into the kitchen and I ask him to take over. Call the landlord, etc because I'm cooking his dinner. Well he must have been really tired and frustrating so I happily finished dinner, took a LONG hot shower and climbed into bed to escape the grouches.
I haven't been to a meeting in almost a week so I am a little nuts, but I also haven't had the energy. I'm hoping for tonight.
This morning, the repairman just came and we got into the most fascinating conversation. We have recovery in common and in fact he is probably going to start going to meetings with us to get connected. But guess who else was the topic of conversation. Oh yes, OW... As I was describing the what our other house was like he nailed me. He said, you needed to be humbled. The most interesting part, he was RIGHT. This meth addict who once upon a time I would have thought myself better than nailed me and was so right and instead of being embarrased I owned up to it and we laughed about it. One druggy talk the truth to another druggy. That was a really special moment for me.
Onto OW, that darn car of hers is still on the side of the road and we get to pass it everyday. This guy wants it. Personally he can just take it, but he is going to have to contact her for permission I guess. She just abandoned the car for over 6 months now. I wonder what the options are.
Anyways, he did comment that he thought H seemed happier than when he first met him - living with her. But I have to be honest and say he then retracted a while later and said he didn't really know H so he can't say. I like this guy. I like his honesty.
So it's been over 6 months since we have gotten back together. So much of our relationship is brand new and some of it, well it just isn't as far as I hoped. My timeline is in place, but until I get there, I do the best I can. I give it to G-d and pray as hard as I can.
I find that I still want to talk about the A not to bash him but because he has information that helps me feel safer and he doesn't get this part of it. I'm adamantly incorporating MB principles into our life, and I can see so much effort on his part, I'm just wondering what is natural at 6 months.
I want to dump here and keep him out of it, but then I'm not being open and honest about stuff and that's a disaster in the making...
I still have questions. He doesn't have answers and sometimes is receptive to try and answer them and other times he gets frustrated with me.
I want a M that is deep, loving and caring. I know he wants that, but something is stopping him. He says he wants it, but those darn actions aren't there. He is just superficial. When I ask him about EN's he can tell me how I am meeting his and how happy he is. But he doesn't seem to get that I have needs to, if that makes sense.
So, I continue to pray and give him to G-d and work on myself. Because no matter what happens I still need work.
I guess the question is when do you STOP talking about the A?
Hello Queenie!
When he has answered thoroughly every question you have asked as many times as you have needed to ask to verify the "truth" is the truth.
When you feel in your gut he has not only been honest with his answers but has been OPEN, as in, not withholding information that wasn't directly asked but would certainly be relevant.
Queenie, I really do hate being the negative voice in recovery, but there are so many red flags in your situation I just about come unglued everytime I read your stuff.
I don't mean to be hurtful to you. I care a great deal about you. But what I see is that you had your bar set so low (just end the affair) that you are now stuck with a WH whose affair died a natural death all on its own and so he came back home. Not changed. Not better. Still the same entitled, selfish man.
You allowed him to return home and back into your life full force with no just compensation, no meaningful commitment to start being a great husband.
When I ask him about EN's he can tell me how I am meeting his and how happy he is. But he doesn't seem to get that I have needs to, if that makes sense.
Yes, it makes perfect sense because he is still a selfish, entitled wayward who just happens to not be in an affair right now. A repentant, loving former wayward would recognize that you have needs and be trying very hard to meet them for you.
As I've said for the last several months, I am very concerned about you.
what are your top EN's that your H isn't yet meeting?
I know you've mentioned SF before, so how is that going?
My very very top EN is O&H. Not so much the honesty bit, which I foolishly took for granted before the A, but definitely the openness bit.
I love it when people share with me. I love it when people offload their problems onto me. It makes me feel needed, wanted, trusted.
If those close to me don't share with me, I very soon feel disconnected from them.
Everyone else has said that you need to know what you need to know and when you know all you need to know, then the needing to know just stops. If it hasn't stopped, then there are things you still need to know. Mr QA needs to understand this.
I guess your need for O&H has just been on the rise without you realising it. If you are not getting the physical intimacy you need then you should at least have the emotional intimacy as a counterbalance.
My FWH, BB, has always struggled to meet my need for O&H because he felt he couldn't share his weaknesses with me lest I admire him less (admiration is his no 1).
Little did he know that I would admire him more for his ability to share himself warts and all with me.
I'm rooting for you Queenie. You ARE being the best you, you can be but with that comes the responsibility of understanding your worth.
You are a wonderful woman, worthy of great love. Now is the time to communicate your needs to your H, without expectation of a great turnaround, but with some expectation of empathy, love and understanding.
I won't disagree with you SMB. but I'm just being honest with myself. I'm not willing to walk away from the M today. I'm just not. I see my kids growing stronger and developing a better relationship with H. I have to give that to them. Even if it means I sacrifice for myself. I HAVE to do this for myself, that I gave my kids the chance to build a relationship back with their dad.
I might have set the bar too low, but I also set the bar for me. I NEEDED to correct who I WAS in this marriage. If he walks away then he walks away. I will be able to HOLD MY HEAD up HIGH knowing I was the best I could be. I didn't have that chance before.
I'm gaining my self respect back because of this. I had the second chance. I'm giving it my all and I can live with the results.
You are right. He is the same selfish wayward, out of the affair that he was before. I'm not blind to it. I'm just doing what I NEED to do for ME. I can't fix him, I can't control him, I can't make him do anything. But the bottom line is I love him. I keep praying for him, I see him taking PREMIE steps and it's enough today. Because my prayers to G-d were for just a chance.
Does that make sense?
Sere, I like your idea of talking to him. I can only keep trying and let G-d get through to him. I have expressed my needs and I do see progress I really do. I just want it ALL today and some days I get frustrated. Rather than take it out on him I wanted to come here and just post.
Please SMB don't give up on me, and thank you for worrying about me. My recovery doesn't look like yours, but it's recovery. There is SO MUCH different about our relationship. I love him enough to provide a safe, loving home to work through his crap and then let him go if the day comes. Not because I'm a doormat, but because I love him that much.
I see my kids growing stronger and developing a better relationship with H. I have to give that to them. Even if it means I sacrifice for myself.
This martyr thinking doesn't fly well with me.
Your husband's relationship with his children is his responsibility. He could have fixed that whether he moved back in with you or not. Their relationship is not something you control. He could fix that all by himself.
I get that you are not ready to end the marriage. I think you are HURTING your attempts at recovery by taking an attitude of sacrifice. You do know what Dr. H says about sacrifice and the damage it causes to a marriage, right?
Enabling him. I'm going to look at that. Change that, I need to pray on that and really look at this behavior.
Have an affair down the road. I KNOW that's a possibility and a HUGE RISK.
Here's the difference. I'm not the same person he would walk out on. I'm capable of taking care of myself. I won't have children left at home. I WILL be in recovery and I WILL KNOW it's on HIM.
If he is able to find the time and pull it off, my hat would almost be off to him. I check his phone records daily, I look at his cell phone to make sure it matches up. He is in almost constant contact, but more specifically in contact after work hours. He goes to meetings almost daily and he is at home or with someone I trust on the weekends.
I'm the one who is different. I'm not knaive, I ask questions and I share my concerns as they happen. I can't control him, but I certainly don't close my eyes.
i think you are leading a good life and giving your FWH a chance to lead a good life WITH you.
If you are taking baby steps in the right direction then who are we to criticise the pace at which you travel? I had my bar for recovery. You have yours.
Please though, do raise the bar as you go on because I really do want to see your H appreciating what a gem he has in you and if you undersell yourself he may not.
You're still only 6 months out from reconciliation and I so understand you wanting your M so that the children can connect properly with their father.
BUT, the M is about the two of you and at some point you need to assert yourself and your needs and your H has to WANT to do whatever it takes to make you safe and happy.
I see my kids growing stronger and developing a better relationship with H. I have to give that to them. Even if it means I sacrifice for myself.
This martyr thinking doesn't fly well with me.
Your husband's relationship with his children is his responsibility. He could have fixed that whether he moved back in with you or not. Their relationship is not something you control. He could fix that all by himself.
I get that you are not ready to end the marriage. I think you are HURTING your attempts at recovery by taking an attitude of sacrifice. You do know what Dr. H says about sacrifice and the damage it causes to a marriage, right?
I'm not discounting what you are saying. But the reality is, I needed to do this for ME. Because I screwed up my children's life by MY ACTIONS and selfish behavior and I NEED to be able to walk away with a clear conscience.
I do know what he says. And maybe my marriage isn't recovering or I am hurting my attempts. My gut says I'm doing the right thing today. But it's only today.
I know Sere. And interestingly H doesn't see this recovery for the kids at all. It's about only US. He even presses me to change my wording when I mention it.
I actually understand what you mean by raising the bar and I'm working on that. You see, along with this M, I am still working on me. I live in a place that I absolutely LOVE, I'm continuing to go to my meetings, I am working on my food and I'm TRUSTING G-d.
I know Sere. And interestingly H doesn't see this recovery for the kids at all. It's about only US. He even presses me to change my wording when I mention it.
I'm leaning towards your H as being correct Queenie. Your marital R is about you and H, that marital R will benefit your kids but they don't influence the R, the two of you do. Do you think having a more focused view on a couples R rather than a family R, your H would feel more responsibility on his part??
and on the sacrifice thing ..... to sacrifice having H back for the sake of the kids and their father's relationship, you may be robbing your kids of learning what a loving M is, in turn they will gage their own relationships on yours and H's.
I may be off base here since I don't know your family dynamics, if I am, I'm sorry.
Hi Vittoria, I think what you say is really good thoughts.
I think that it is only natural that him building back his relationship with the children first is easiest at this point. I have truly thought about what everyone has said. I have learned to trust my prayers, where it takes me. My whole walk during this has been about trusting G-d.
I believe what my children are seeing and exeriencing are two people who love each other very much and want it to work. I don't doubt for one second believe that my H loves me and wants to be married to me. How can I say that? It's in the positive steps that he has taken. Its in his actions, it's in his willingness to keep trying. That is so different than before. He used to shut down on me, placate me etc. He doesn't do that anymore. He is much quicker to apologize for his actions. He is much quicker to look at his behavior and see where his part is and where he is wrong. He IS trying.
I believe with all my heart and soul that where I am, is where G-d wants me to be. I wouldn't be any happier single, raising my child alone or at least part time, and working towards a divorce. Yes, things aren't nearly as good as they could be, but I truly walk in FAITH for the future. And I will continue to TRUST my G-d that it will all work out to the good for me as long as I stay faithful to G-d.
Imagine this... the topic at my meeting tonight was about TRUSTING G-d. That's all I have to do today.
Life has been a little rough this week. Not because of particularly anything other than my mind, and for this alcoholic that's a very dangerous place to be.
Hope you are in recovery. It's just not like you are picturing. I also get what you mean. I personally hardly EVER came over here when I was still separated from Podge (my nickname for him). LOL I have to chuckle I could never come up with a good name for his during A, but now I think it's time to name him.
Good Shabbas, Mark, Sunflower, Bellevue, Pretty, Miriam
Happy Weekend to everyone as well.
There is a parent in my school who walked in and asked if we used facebook. Turns out she and her husband who have been very active in the marriage field are turning out a book next month on boundaries in marriage around facebook. Here is a little write up on it What Every Facebooking Couple Should DO to Protect Their Marriage!
Create boundaries to protect yourself, your spouse and your marriage. Spend some time talking about what�s in bounds and out of bounds and as a couple, agree on what boundaries you�ll set as a couple. A little bit of agreement on what is and is not acceptable can save a lot of pain and disagreement later.
Set your relationship status to Married and keep it that way. Facebook�s version of the wedding band, your Relationship Status makes all the difference in how people interact with you. If you do happen to go through some marital troubles, don�t change to �it�s complicated� because you�ll only make things even more complicated�in a bad way.
Update each other on your FB Friends and Friend Requests. Friends range from past childhood pals and classmates to current connections from work, church and elsewhere. Many of your FB Friends have a story attached to them. Don�t assume your spouse knows how you know them; spend time sharing their story with your mate.
Share your username and password with one another. Transparency is crucial to ensure trust in a committed relationship. Exchanging login information provides accountability and emotional security for both of you
Make your spouse the topic of your Status Updates at least once a week. Using Facebook to affirm and build up your spouse creates a deeper bond between the two of you, and a higher fence around the two of you. (Just be careful not to overdo and become an annoying couple.)
Be prepared to talk offline about online issues. What happens on Facebook doesn�t stay on Facebook. Facebook can and will trigger issues and conversations between you and your spouse: a poorly worded joke, an awkward comment by a FB Friend, or an unexpected chat session. Deal with hurt feelings or concerns in the privacy of your own home. If handling conflict is difficult for you and your spouse, attend a Marriage Education class to acquire a shared set of communication/conflict resolution skills
What Every Facebooking Couple Should NOT DO to Protect Their Marriage!
(DON�T) Write cutting remarks or negative statements about your spouse. Even though Facebook asks, �What�s on your mind,� it doesn�t mean everyone really wants to know the answer to that question. If in doubt, think about how your comments will be read by others (think about your mother-in-law, your boss, your pastor) before pushing the Share/Comment button.
(DON�T) Friend exes, old flames, past flings, former crushes or anyone you�ve been intimate with in the past. What starts as an innocent, �I wonder whatever happened to so-and-so� can lead to �I never meant for this to happen.� Friending exes� invites an unnecessary threat into your married life that can cause any or all of the following: anxiety and insecurity for your spouse, friction and isolation in your marriage, and unrealistic and senseless ideas in your head. If staying FB Friends is a bad idea for a broken up (dating) couple, then it�s a really, really bad idea for married couples.
(DON�T) Lose track of how much time you spend on Facebook. Everyone needs a little down time to unwind each day. Facebook can be a great way to wind down (e.g. connect with FB Friends, play games, find Groups and Fan Pages, etc). On average, users spend 12-15 minutes a day on Facebook. That seems like a healthy dose of daily Facebook intake. If time on the online social community infringes on your real-time marriage relationship, make changes to reprioritize your time. Set a timer for 15 minutes and then log off Facebook and turn off the computer.
(DON�T) Report that you or your spouse is out of town. This is more security than anything else. Say your husband is on a business trip and you post an update that he is out of town. What you think is a harmless Status Update is an announcement to the bad guys that your home, possessions and family are vulnerable and a prime target for bad things to happen. Do you really know all of your FB Friends? How about their Friends? A FB Friend�s comment to your Status Update can unknowingly broadcast your �my husband is gone� news to a bunch of people you really don�t know.
(DON�T) Have private Chat sessions with people of the opposite sex. Chats are a private, real time message exchange between two people. Once a person logs off, Chat sessions are erased forever. Emotional affairs have three main ingredients: secrecy, chemistry and intimacy. Chatting provides a perfect environment for the three ingredients to mix together and create a situation that supposedly �just happened�. Avoid the drama and turn off the Chat feature altogether.
(DON�T) Let Facebook be a distraction during your time with your mate. Not only can writing a Status Update steal time from your couple time, but reading someone�s bad news can steal your mind from your special time together. Make date nights, special moments, and times of intimacy Facebook-free. No laptops, no computers, no smart phones when it is time for you and your spouse.
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K. Jason and Kelli Krafsky have been married since 1994 and have co-authored Facebook and Your Marriage (their first book together due out in February 2010). Jason also authored Before �I Do� � Preparing for the Full Marriage Experience, an interactive premarital book for engaged and seriously dating couples. Jason and Kelli live in the foothills of Washington�s Cascade Mountains with their four children. Contact them at kjasonk@fullmarriageexperience.com, on Twitter or through Facebook.
Find out more about the Jason and Kelli and their marriage efforts at their website (FullMarriageExperience.com) and blog (MarriageJunkie.com).
Sign up to be one of the first to know about the release and pre-press sale of our book, Facebook and Your Marriage by email, Facebook, or Twitter. (Your pick).
Copyright � 2009 K. Jason and Kelli Krafsky � Permission granted to use and reproduce with proper source citation.
I realize that some of this needs to be tailored and in our situation we might be passed the point of using facebook, but these were really good suggestions.
Here's the other cool part - As I was telling her about me and Podge she told me that her H was VERY active in the marriage counseling arena and I mentioned to her about MB. Turns our her H does some work for them in some capacity.
Anways, she recommended some various ways of getting Podge a little more on board in the actively building a new relationship. Where I have to say we have come the HUGEST is almost totally eliminating LB or addressing them as they come up. From where we were to today, this is HUGE... And I for one am so grateful.
But we aren't where we could be and I continue to search for ways to get him on board. Which he is open to. So one of the suggestions was a DVD called Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage.
Oh thanks Seren... No stay, not yet. Working my way there.
Yesterday was absolutely the most magical evening. Wow, I'm still in awe of what G-d did.
I met up with someone who is married to a possible alcoholic. The reality is I know that no one but this person can decided if they are or not. But their drinking is a huge problem in the house. I met with her and then Podge joined us. He openly talked about his A, his feelings, the lying, the game, the wayward mindset, and his path of recovery etc. I was just floored.
I can't explain the force of us together was just incredible. Our egos hopefully in check because we openly talked about the continuing efforts to grow and become all we can become. It was very cool.
But what fascinated me and I haven't had a chance to revisit. He talked about how he completely shut down his emotions the night he left. And he mentioned that there were two times when he felt. One was when I delivered the "goodbye" letter (Plan B letter and then we got sidetracked. Hopefully I will get the opportunity to ask him more in depth.
Then we went to AA meeting. And then came home and played cards with the boys and OS's GF. We had so much fun laughing. In fact I was laughing so hard... well you get the picture. I have thought about the words sacrificing.
Maybe my marriage isn't where it could be, but am I sacrificing for my kids. I would argue that I wanted this family all along and I am finally getting to enjoy what was so important to me. And for that I say amen.
Shabbat shalom. I'm off to go watch the boys play lacrosse.
Maybe my marriage isn't where it could be, but am I sacrificing for my kids. I would argue that I wanted this family all along and I am finally getting to enjoy what was so important to me. And for that I say amen.
There was a discussion on Ivetz's thread a while back, it was about sacrificing, and the repercussions that it has in M. 6yrs. had a good question, this is not quoting him since I can't remember his exact words, but the jist was ...... 'isn't the BS sacrificing themselves when they take the WS back?'.
My take was 'yes', we do sacrifice our integrity, our worth and our faith in our spouse .... initially. A huge consideration that I took into account for saving my M, was my kids. I understand what you are saying.
The difference, I think, is that it becomes apparent in time, that it is not a sacrifice anymore if the WS becomes a FWS, in actions and thoughts. The time frame would be the clincher, and every BS would have their own time frame with when to judge this.
I sacrificed, initially, and I'm glad I did. I don't feel like I am sacrificing anymore. I don't feel like I am giving up my well being for the sake of the kids to have their father around, since I am feeling safe in my M. (as safe as I can one yr. out)
I would agree with everything you say Vittoria and then some. You are one WISE woman. Thank you.
What I'm learning is it's my life and as long as I don't feel like I am sacrificing and most of my needs are being met, then I'm good to go until G-d directs me otherwise.
Hi JT and Queenie, I miss you guys too. In fact I missed MB alot. I did try to come on with my cell phone a couple of times but couldnt get it to work and was out of cover alot anyway.
Well it's championship Sunday. I'm pulling for the Saints and Colts. Rassandra I hear ya yelling, and for those who don't know James is getting to take his son to the game. Woo hoo, good times for those both.
I can't believe it, but I caught a cold and it's kicking my tuckus. I got a nasty virus a few weeks ago that wasn't obviously the flu or obviously a cold. I just felt AWFUL. THIS is a cold and it's deep down in my chest.
Ya think standing outside Friday evening waving signs to ask voters to support our school levies wasn't my smartest action lately? Naw, I'm sure I did something really stupid lately. Oh yeah.. Just last night I caught myself in a LB without realizing it until I posted.
I have this awful habit of not putting my car keys in one place when I get home. If I remembered where I put them it would be no big deal, but I don't. We POJA'd where the keys would go and for a long time I put them there. Lately I have gone back to the old habit of just dropping them whereever.
H last night made a comment and used the words old habit. I called him mean in a loving way and we went to sleep. But there was my G-d loving me as he does and all of a suddent this thought came to me that H had the right to talk to me about it because we agreed on this. I brought it up this morning and apologized to him. It felt good to honor what he did by talking to me because he still holds so much in.
Hi Queenie, stopping by in recovery to see if you are!
I feel your struggle but if you are start to feel you are sacrificing you will feel as a victim.
Understand the love you have to keep the family together. There is a void when your family is imploded by infidelity. We feel it every day.
Keep your grace, your strength and your faith. Always will guide you.
Now on to your weight. You can do it. Plain and simple. I struggled with my weight all of my life. When I found out about the A I dropped 18 pounds - -quick. Easiest diet I was on. But then I took the bull by the horns and looked hard at myself and did not like what I saw inside and out. Lost an additional 29 pounds and I still have about 40 more to go.
Focus on your M but focus on yourself first. Baby steps. Liked a few pages back about all the small ideas you can incorporate to lose weight.
My XH was always the more "pretty one" and in better shape. I was the fat frumpy girl. I take time for myself -- everyday even when I want to crawl back under the covers.
My goal has and still is to work on myself. I know that XH sees some of the changes but one day I just want to Wow him and PP. My ultimate goal is to "WOW" him back into a M based on MB principles.
Are you really working on yourself? Ask yourself the hard questions. This stuff is hard work. It is not for sissies.
Not trying to bring you down but to bring you to the best you want to be. Love you girl!
I used to be a big key looser too and it drove me nuts. What I ended up doing is buying a big wooden bowl which sits on a table by the front door. I walk in, and drop the keys there after pulling them out fo the lock. When I tidy up, any keys I find go into the bowl. We now have a big bowl of keys... alot of which we have no idea what they unlock Still, I can find my keys every time. Well after a bit of fossicking thru said bowl. I think they like to migrate to the bottom.
As far as weight.. food is a huge problem for me because I love it. I also like to fit my clothes. So my chioce is either move more or eat less. I dont like eating less so I have to move more.
I watched a programmme once about babies and todlers and how come they are very rarely over weight. They fast forwarded a clip of a baby taken over an hour and man! That little guy really gave himself a work out, he just never stopped. So I try to make what movement I do make a bit more... yanno? I walk faster around the house, swing the washing basket, pace on the spot when I am doing dishes, rotate my ankles when on the phone, heck I imagine even doing kegals uses up some energy
I do have to do a real exercise programme as well, especially when I am not milking regulary, but I feel every little helps
Life has been a little rough this week. Not because of particularly anything other than my mind, and for this alcoholic that's a very dangerous place to be.
I hope this has passed. I have no experience with alcoholism but I trust what you say about 'a dangerous place to be'. So, just makin' sure that you are doing well.
Vittoria, thank you so much for checking up on me. Actually I am still struggling internally about ME. You know, I have almost 23 years sobriety. And I KNOW that it's one day at a time, but I think in a way I took that for granted recently or something..
Anyways around the beginning of the year my AA sponsor called me on my isolating etc and noticed that I do it every year around this time. We came to how separated I feel because I simply dont celebrate Christmas and don't believe in Jesus as the son of G-d. I have tried to look at that, but for me. Well...
In the past I have had my Jewish girlfriends to be with and commiserate with. Not since D-day have they been in my life and I miss the relationships. I don't want to be involved with them because they dont' support my M at all.
Then I get really sick with a virus that just simply wipes me out for a few weeks and just when I was on the mend, I caught a very nasty cold that has stayed in my chest and I have no energy, having a hard time breathing, and isolating obviously because all I want to do is go home and sleep after work. When I'm at work, I feel like there is that bubble around me where I can barely hear, barely concentrate, almost like D-day.
Consequently my attendance at meetings is WAY DOWN. No big deal. I'm talking to my sponsor on and off. Interestingly early this week or the end of last week I got the desire for a beer. You know what the taste of beer is like, the flavor and fuzz going down as you gulp it and that burp that comes back up. The strength of the burp... Innocent enough...
Now we have a wine bar on the way to work and home. A nice new sign that draws attention to this new wine tasting bar. So last week all my co workers went to this bar. Not me. I can't go in there, again the different than everyone else. And it was around that same time that I noticed a BRAND NEW HUGE, I MEAN HUGE liquor on the way to my house next to the supermarket that I always shop at. Did I mean how HUGE it is. Do I think about telling my sponsor this stuff.
NOPE... not because I'm hiding something, but I just don't give it much power. Yesterday morning I woke up early, sent H off to work, and fell back asleep.
I HAD A USING DREAM. A USING DREAM.
And it scared the holy CRAP out of me. I called my sponsor and just cried from all the pent up whatever. She talked to me about the enemy at work, about my disease and how powerful, cunning and patient it is. About how absolutely run down I am physically and mentally. She asked me about the three sides of our program and I realized that my unity is lacking severly. I've gone from being this crazy miss socialite who wasn't happy to a woman that loves just isoating at home taking care of her family. Not really a bad thing, but KNOCK KNOCK, I am an ADDICT/ALCOHOLIC. Isolation to ME is deadly and dangerous and if I don't knock it off I'm in bad trouble.
Talk about powerlessness, which happen to be the topic at the meeting on Thursday night at my meeting.
I went to a meeting last night, went out to dinner afterwards, didn't get home until after midnight and can't wake up. Oh that cold.... still there.
So this weekend my sponsor told me to just rest, build myself up mentally, physically, and probably work on my spirituality.....
Thanks Vittoria for checking in on me. It's made me look at my not taking care of myself and working on that today.... I think that I'll just go to H and son's lax game, then come home and crosstich and stay warm.
I think you're already winning the battle because you are recognising your weakness.
I know nothing about alcoholism or addiction so I cannot offer any advice, but I can be here with some support and I can tell you how special you are.
Recovering from a nasty virus can be tough. They can really lay you low so don't be too hard on yourself. How about a tonic or a bit of sunlight? Those sun lamps are supposed to do wonders. Or a lovely walk in the park.
Hey, Gorgeous. Do me a favor next time you're feeling rundown and isolated. Will you please call me? We can talk about the grey weather or Zorn getting hired by the Ravens or Carroll's hiring with the Seahawks or ponder what JT is doing or recall our funny booth conversation when Lil was here or whatever you want. We don't have to talk about our Hs or recovery or nuttin' like that -- unless you want to. I can meet you at a lax game or bring you soup. I'm not too far away if you need anything, my friend. Please... Just call me. I'll email my info to make sure you have it handy.
Oh, and you don't have to feel needy to call. I'd love to hear your voice on your great days too.
Big humongous hug coming to you over the lake from me. Love ya.
I'm still so very tired. However, I did go to work yesterday and a meeting afterwards and even spent time with my sponsor, so that was a lot for me. Challenge is, I'm just completely wiped out and I need to go to my 2nd job today.
You got it Lookin, although I'm finding that reaching out isn't my strong suit right now.
So, 7 days until I take my son to the hotel and off to boot camp. We had a little time yesterday to just talk for a few minutes. I asked him as I was blubbering crying if he still hated me for working things out with his dad.
Now I realize that he won't give me his exact feelings, but what he did say was ok. He said that he has kinda forgiven him, but that he will never forget. What he didn't say was that there relationship won't really ever be the same, but we all know this. I wanted more to be honest, but I have to accept what he did give me.
I keep remembering this child when he was born and how demanding he was. I remember his self entitlement attitude even only a few days old. I remember the times that he ripped classrooms apart because he felt the world was unjust to him and that even G-d was wrong if for no other reason that form OS's point of view.
He is by far my most sensitive of all my children. He was the one who got hurt the most in all of this because WH talked to the other two kids. WH missed his graduation. He became a man the day he confronted his father over the A, and in less than one week he goes off to become a different kind of man. I'm so proud of him for the choices he had made.
I just am going to miss him so much. He was my strength when WH left. He's still my little baby, but I'm just so proud to become a Navy mom.
I keep remembering this child when he was born and how demanding he was. I remember his self entitlement attitude even only a few days old.
I got one of these too. J couldn't handle him at all and told me on several occasions that he didn't like him. J's gone the other way now - if I'm weary of DS and the slavery he tries to inflict on me, J sticks up for him
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So, 7 days until I take my son to the hotel and off to boot camp. We had a little time yesterday to just talk for a few minutes. I asked him as I was blubbering crying if he still hated me for working things out with his dad...
I just am going to miss him so much. He was my strength when WH left. He's still my little baby, but I'm just so proud to become a Navy mom.
You got me here Queenie, having read this and L4s farewell I had to go and get a box of tissues
I hope you are feeling less tired than you were earlier in the week.
I was having a chat with my sis the other day and we were saying how much easier life is when you appreciate the good things and thank God. I always think of you, when I thank God and appreciate things because it seems that it is something that you never forget to do.
Now I realize that he won't give me his exact feelings, but what he did say was ok. He said that he has kinda forgiven him, but that he will never forget.
Same words are spoken by a BS. His feelings are valid and understandable. You know, this may help your son to have strong boundaries in his own M and make a wise choice in his future W.
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He is by far my most sensitive of all my children. He was the one who got hurt the most in all of this because WH talked to the other two kids. WH missed his graduation. He became a man the day he confronted his father over the A, and in less than one week he goes off to become a different kind of man. I'm so proud of him for the choices he had made.
The fact that he had the strength to confront his father, is telling of the way you have shown your own strength to him.
Hi Queenie, With your words I feel your struggle and would just like to catch you and give you a hug.
Amazing all the people we help but we can't help ourselves in our darkest hours.
Get out of that place. It is not good or healthy for you. Call your sponsor -- hourly if needed. In my Alnon class they hand out phone lists at each meeting. Start calling everyone as needed.
Vent here. This place has been my Godsend. Every day. Blessed by my fellow Mbers.
If all else fails...come visit! ok not realistic but at least it is warmer (even though it has been raining buckets recently)
Hey my bestest girl!!!!!!.....ya know, you and I have been chatting on here for over 2 years now???....my where ever does the time go???....
What was the best advice Mimi ever gave YOU???....
I know for me it was "finding my PERSONAL POWER. And I know that having watched you, you found that and further more you EXUDE it. Reading about your trials the last couple of weeks PROVES that.
I'm sad you'll be missing your son....glad that he had a wonderful mother in you......my PRAYERS will be going with you two....
Hi guys, I really missed you guys. To be honest, I slipped on and off a while back, but was struggling and just didn't have the strength to post.
So much has happened in these short weeks and I needed to curtail and be still so my G-d could lead and direct me to where he wanted me to go. Not where silly Queenie thought she should go.
Where do begin. I imagine OS is almost into or just about finishing his second week of boot camp. Don't know how he is doing, but do have an address to send letters and did get his clothes. I miss him, but that's normal.
DD, for many might not know is pregnant. She isn't married and honestly I was very embarrased because one thing I realized through this mess was that I am very old fashioned. She is doing well for the most part. A way bit of the drama, but she learned that so well from me. Her latest stunt was yesterday she and BF came by - H fixed his car and BF fixed our computers. She was off for most of the day, but I just attributed it to her pregnancy. I get this text at work today that she is in so much pain because she had been up all night getting sick because she thinks she has food poisoning.
Thinking about what she possibly could have eaten at my house I smartly ask her what the last thing was she ate - proceeds to tell me ice cream from coldstone creamery. I quickly think to myself as long as she stayed away from the raw cookie dough - should be safe. OH NO, not my DD... Raw cookie dough it was. So I had her call the drs. Next thing I know she is off to the hospital b/c they think she is in pre labor because of the back pains. I don't know about you guys, but when I sat over a toilet, pregnant or not and prayed to the porcelain G-d, my back hurt. But... being the loving mom, I just told her I was here to support her. Good news, she isn't in pre labor, however she was severely dehydrated and received 5 iv bottles. OY VEY is she going to swell...
H has been putting off completing his 4th step and putting it off and putting it off that G-d felt he had enough distractions so he made it possible for H to get fired AGAIN in the last 8 months. Not sure if he is to receive unemployment and if not, that will really hurt us, but I trust my G-d.
The people who were living in our house have moved out and now it's up for sale. It's lost about 150K in value and it maybe appear that we are going to lose it to forclosure. But my G-d will open a door where this one is closing. I just have to keep trusting him.
My son wants me to come out to Ill. for his Navy graduation and quite honestly I'm too embarassed to go because of the weight that I gained back, so I had to dig deep inside and find a way to work on my weight. The good news was I lost 6.5 lbs in two weeks, the bad news... I gained 4 lbs back. I'm not sure what that's about, but I know that as long as I keep doing the footwork and trying, the results are in G-ds hands.
My YS whose grades have been failing almost from D-day, finally brought his grades up to 5 A's and 1 B. How totally cool is that for him. I'm so very proud of him.
My sister is a cutter, a bulemic, addict/alcoholic and one messed up human being in life. She isn't sober and she is cutting herself again because she hates her life. Oh yeah, she had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and it's evidently in it's active state and she has no way of walking through it. I feel helpless as to help her, but I trust my G-d to take care of her and if he needs me, he will let me know.
I found myself struggling internally and I did what I was taught, attend more meetings, talk to my sponsor and work with others. Oh yes, did I mention TRUST G-D. Because as JT and Mark so often taught me, MY G-d has plans for me.
Now I'm a woman who always liked her alone time, until D-day and then I could never imagine wanting to be alone, but through in a vacation from school along with a fired H and you have a Queenie who just wants some alone time. HOWEVER, Queenie remembers her promises to G-d and so she sucks up what she wants and seeks G-d for what to do. I made the most of our time together. And do you know what, we really for the most part had the most magnificent time. We took walks together, we went to pick up his last pay check and then went to the beach and took pictures with our cameras. We just were normal. Easy and loving.
I'll get back to him, but let me finish updates around Queenie. My friend who at one point was carrying triples, but is down to twins, was told that the placentas were too close and so she must carry both babies until they are born. However her baby is going to die very soon after birth. Pep, I took your suggestions to her and she posts regularly updates about both babies, takes lots of pictures and has named both babies. Not to mention she is reading up on what will happen to the baby and how long it will take for it to die. Can you imagine what that would be like?
Last Thursday a former co-workers 17 year old up and coming DD died of a blood clot in her lung. I found out today that a former parent and man who played soccer with my H died last night of cancer. He leaves behind a loving wife and two relatively young children. Then I get home and go on facebook and find out that another friend has lost her father today.
I read just today or yesterday on Traci's thread, at least I think it was there about the laughter. Pep asked if they were laughing and I took so much comfort from that. Because we have laughed so much together lately and continue to heal.
Are there still red flags. OH YOU BET... But I keep remembering that I am not ready to end this marriage and that I need to give G-d more time because I TRUST my G-d more than anyone or anthing I can't see.
Still no SF.. I asked H what makes us different than being roomates. His response was roomates don't share bank accounts but more importantly they don't sleep together. We cuddle very tightly at night, we cuddle all the time, we kiss, we touch and for today I need to be satisfied with what G-d is giving me on this subject.
When WH was in full force he used the line that he had no desire for me and he only desired her. Last week on one of our walks he told me that was a lie and that this is HIS issue. He is scared. I believe him. I don't like his answer, but I believe him.
When he lost his job, he didn't come home and tell me about it until almost 5 days later. He lost his job the Friday before my son left and didn't want to ruin the weekend for us and by Monday he said he got scared. I believe him, because Skinsgal would have freaked out, and today I just trust my G-d that if we lose everything, I still have my relationship with G-d and he will walk me through anything.
When he was WH, I remember very clearly having a conversation with him about giving up my friends and I remember him sending an email where he sets me up saying how does he know that I won't push him to the bottom of the food chain. I knew words would have no meaning and so since we have gotten back together I have virtually given up having any outside friends unless it's AA. I miss my GF, and we talked about this on Friday night. He told me that "that" person wasn't looking for the truth, just to push me away and that he supports and wants me to be with my friends because it's healthy for us.
In the span of three days, two separate incidents he stopped me to say that the monster he was isn't him anymore and that the beliefs that I was operating out of from fear don't need to exist. He isn't going anywhere and that he wants to be married to me.
The positives are he continues to grow, change, think of others first and become someone I can be proud of and respect. I no longer walk in fear of what happens if.
He wants our marriage. He wants, but he is scared and these fears are from HIS childhood, not our marriage. I didn't cause them, I can't control them, I can't cure them.
I have come to accept after talking to JT numerous times and other people that what I am doing is the right thing, not because I'm sacrificing my life but because G-d is using me for a bigger purpose and that one day G-d will reward me beyond my wildest dreams for my obedience to him.
So... I apologize for not being in touch more. Queenie needed to be still, seek G-d and walk in his shadow like he taught me because he has plans for me and I needed listen and focus on him a lot more.
H has been putting off completing his 4th step and putting it off and putting it off that G-d felt he had enough distractions so he made it possible for H to get fired AGAIN in the last 8 months.
I know personally for me putting this off kept me from the light of the Spirit. I pray your H will take this step.
Mainly just wanted to stop by, Say HI-HI and catch up with where you are at.
Quennie - I don't know if I have ever posted to you before but I read your post and your story gives me hope. I wanted to recommend a book that might help you. Practicing the presence of god by brother lawrence. 16th century monk who believed that the key to happiness is living moment by moment in gods presence and making every act an act of love and devotion to god - from cooking dinner for his fellow monks toi washing the floors. Worship in all that you do. Just a suggestion
I like what you suggested and will absolutely check into it. I'm glad you stopped by and welcome and observations you might have.
I'm very grateful that my story gives you hope. Because truly at one time there was no hope and it looked like my marriage was dead. Well actually as Mimi taught me, that OLD marriage was dead. But G-d created the opportunity for a NEW marriage to begin and I have made the most of his opportunities and blessings.
Hey Queenie, I'm really short on time right now, I've only really skimmed over your last posts but in time will read them with more care. This ......
"My son wants me to come out to Ill. for his Navy graduation and quite honestly I'm too embarassed to go because of the weight that I gained back, so I had to dig deep inside and find a way to work on my weight. The good news was I lost 6.5 lbs in two weeks, the bad news... I gained 4 lbs back. I'm not sure what that's about, but I know that as long as I keep doing the footwork and trying, the results are in G-ds hands."
in 5 years Queenie, will you regret not going to your son's graduation for the reasons that you say?
Darn JT, I would have loved to try and get together. I'll give ya a call this week so we can touch base.
Oh you are so right Vit, I made the plane, car, and hotel reservations with his girlfriend today. I would NEVER forgive myself if I didn't go.
I've been coming here for over 2 1/2 years. I remember D-day like it was yesterday in so many ways. I remember the absolute sadness and pain, it felt like a nuclear bomb went off inside of me and all I wanted to do was curl up and just die.
Then life went one for me.... for the rest of the world... but that pain still lived inside and just became a part of me....
I have buried my parents, my grandparents, my in laws, friends, children of friends etc. Even two years ago remember when my once very close friend died in his sleep at 17, and then last year someone's son died of a brain tumor at 28, one week before his wife gave birth to their first child, a beautiful girl.
Last week a co-worker's died at 17 from a blood clot in her lungs. I knew this person, not well, and knew her daughter, not well. This young person was an aspiring actress and singer and was clearly talented in ways that I had no idea. She was a light in G-ds world that just burnt out a little too fast.
I remember the discussion here about was it worse to lose a child or have adultery affect our lives. At the time I was very clear that adultery seemed much worse for so many reasons.
As I watched my friend walk into the church where the Lutheran service was to take place, she was trembling, her face down, she couldn't and look out at all the people that loved her daughter or loved her. I don't think I am exaggerating that there were in excess of a thousand people in that room. I had NEVER seen that kind of grief on a person, NEVER. My heart absolutely broke for her. What I realized was at that moment, that kind of deep deep deep pain that each one of us feels in our own way is just so debilitating and inconsoluable.
For those of you who are Lutheran I gotta tell you, this priest or pastor, was interesting. I also had never experienced someone who reached so closely out to the family and just spoke to the mom. It was beyond moving, it was for me an experience. Setting aside the obvious differences of me being Jewish, this man talked about that unending questions, that desperate pain to try and understand and I thought of so many of you because in the end, what he talked most about was the relationship that you have with G-d. That no matter whatever unanswered, incomprehensible situations we all face, and each one of us do, our G-d, whoever that is for you, but our G-d will take us through it and just hold us like a baby. Just like each one of us holds our children and rocks them when they are hurting.
I hope whoever reads this, newbie or old truly takes to their heart, their spirit, that no matter what, you G-d is there for you to help you one toe at a time and that I hope you find him because like that priest/pastor said, your G-d loves you more than anyone else, than a room full of a 1000 people like there was today, your G-d loves you more than you can even imagine.
The last song that she sang before she died, was I can only imagine. I hope you listen to those words and remember your G-d loves you as only you can imagine.
I don't know when your son graduates but you'll only be about 75 miles from us when you get to NSTC Great Lakes. Look us up if it's a weekend. It would be great to be able to get together with your guys.
If it's next weekend we will be a lot farther away since we are going to the Illinois Horse Fair with our NFP to try to raise some money.
Other than that, gives us a heads up and I'll see if I can arrange something if you are going to have time.
I have attended too many funerals for children of friends who still ask the question "why" years later. I've never been able to answer that question beyond "I don't know." About the best I have aver been able to do is cry along with them. Parents just aren't supposed to bury our children.
Wow, what an incredible offer that is. His graduation is April 9th and I'm flying in on Thursday and leaving on Sunday in the PM.
If you don't mind meeting someone who is overweight I would love to meet you along with your wife. That would be such a treat.
Someone was just talking to me about the funeral and she said the same thing. Only she thinks the priest was talking directly to her because this woman is in danger of not making it. She is scarily fragile. She LIVED her life for her daughter. It's just heartbreaking for her and so many others who face this horrible time.
I really want to applaud the sermon about having a relationship with G-d and to seek him for help.
Queenie - you are gloriously and wonderfully made!
I have weight issues too - but hun...Why would Mark and his wife care if you are overweight!!! You need to stop and give yourself a big big big hug....does GOD care if you got more to love? NOPE. Why would your son care - he would care if his mom wasnt there...but not showing because of weight!...You gotta love the skin your in.
You are not your weight...you are a towering pillar of strength who wouldnt settle for anything less than what she deserved! You are beautiful in Gods eyes and to anyone who looks at the world through gods eyes. I weigh well over 200 lbs...but I dont care...its not what I weigh but what I do...its not what I weigh but how I love.
Let me see if I can set something up for the night of the 10th if that would be OK.
I'll try to figure out a good place to meet for dinner or something in the city or western suburbs.
BTW. My brother did basic training, "A school" and electronics and fire control schools at NTC GL. Of course that was a while ago. He ended up as an avionics tech on the Nimitz and the plane he was responsible for (an A7 Corsair II) was in the movie Final Countdown (opening sequence of the movie). He finished out his career working on Tomcats (F14, like in Top Gun)and as a nuke ordinance loader. Fortunately that job never was required other than training about ten times per month.
I remember when he finished his avionics class and was assigned to the Nimitz. He was so excited and looking forward to joining the fleet. His first job on board this awesome state of the art combat ship was working in the laundry...
Ahem.....IF I may be so rude as to interrupt this lovely get together,......Queenie (my IMs down for a bit) but depending on where this is I might be able to swing out there. Email the details and I'll see if I can get it done. If it would infringe on your Mom/son time I understand though.....
Oh..... And that comment about your weight???..... You need to apologize to YOURSELF.........
Queenie, this is gonna sound weird, okay? I had a dream about you last night. I dreamt we met under some strange circumstances. Someone you knew (the OW maybe?) had kidnapped my grandson. You and I got together to figure out what to do.
You were the cutest little thing, I just wanted to hug you! You were so cuddly and sweet (and short!) In my dream you mention something about your weight and I told you in no uncertain terms to STOP IT! You smiled and then laughed and we went back to figuring out things.
The OW declared she was NOT giving up my grandson, but in the end the good guys won (but I don't remember how!)
Told ya it was gonna be weird.
So at least I'll carry on one thought in the dream--- STOP IT! You are too cute for that nonsense.
Glad someone said STOP IT!...that exactly what I wante dto say but wasnt sure if I ahd the right yet....I didnt want to come off as to abrupt as I do not have the relationship with queenie - since I just started posting to her but I wanted to say same thing..
When I met you last year I can tell you my first thought was not related to your 'weight'. In fact it was OMG she is so short! Trust me, I love meeting short people. When your only just over 5 foot, short people make you feel tall!!
You dear lady are beautiful. Your H loves you as you are. Your kids love you as you are. Heck 50 thousand odd strangers (some stranger than others ) on MB love YOU, Queenie whatever your shape, colour, religion, deviant proclivities
Its like Mary Poppins said.. "practically perfect in every way"
Ok no more feeling less than because of my weight. The truth is I am who I am and right now that just has to been good enough. However, just as a drunk - like me protects myself from going into bars, I also make sure to put myself in safe situations where someone isn't going to be uncomfortable because of my weight.
Enough on this because quite honestly it doesn't matter in the REAL scheme of life. My G-d loves me exactly as I am and he needs me to focus on something else other than this topic.
I'm sitting here at my desk looking outside with the sun coming up, hitting the cedars and trees all around and it's absolutely stunning to see. I LOVE living out here in the quiet, away from almost everyone with just G-ds beauty around. It's supposed to be clear blue skies and almost 60 degrees. I remember many years ago on this day sitting in the dean of students office listening to them tell me what my OS had done and why he is getting suspended for two days. As I sat there and smiled they wanted to know what I was smiling about. You see, I was working for the school by this point. My response... Well, let's see... It's absolutely gorgeous outside, it's supposed to be that way for the next two days, and SOMEONE needed to stay home with the child. So for two days, I sat outside looking over my son cleaning out ditches, basking in the sun all the while not realizing how life could turn out.
I've actually heard from my son three times now. His letters crack me up. He started out the first letter, mostly messy MAYBE two paragraphs. Then the second letter was almost a page long and yesterdays letter was almost two pages long. Not to mention the handwriting was so much better. We will just leave the grammar and stuff alone, but suffice to say, his teachers are simply shaking their heads getting that he NEVER listened. LOL
I'll get to the update on my M in a moment. Last week I buried a 17 year old girl who had nothing but a bright promising future ahead of her. Tomorrow I will attend the funeral of a 16 year old boy who hung himself on Sunday night/Monday morning. His father found him. My son didn't know this child - recognized his picture, but evidently I did. I went to AA meeting with him. On Tuesday, I was overwhelmed with emotions internally because there were "things" happening in my M that I didn't know what to do about, and I felt so helpless for this boy. I'm so angry because our school district/community don't REALLY want to look at the absolutely growing drug problem effecting these kids. Especially with heroin and oxycontin. And why? Becuase many of them are either selling or doing it themselves. People really do die from this disease.
So, I reached out to two specific people. I wanted to find a purpose to help and stop this madness of uneccesary deaths. That young woman's death couldn't have been prevented but this one's absolutely could have. So I started out looking how to reach the district, reach the kids and get them to wake up. But in talking to the counselor I realized something very interesting. I looked at my own backyard, I looked at what was happening in the rooms of AA lately. And it became really impactful that many of us have been in the rooms just dumping because we are struggling so bad from this that and the other. People with 8 years, 15 years, 40 years still struggling with stuff and I thought about how that is impacting the 16 year olds who are there looking at the rest of their life, wondering if they are thinking to themself is this all there is.
I also went to the place of wondering what did WE as AA do wrong for this kid. Where were we? Were we following up, reaching out to him and if not to him how many others are we doing that for. And oh by the way what the frick ARE we going to do about it. I felt rejuvenated with an idea of how to pray and seek G-d for answers on my next indicated step.
A little while later my sponsor called me and she was very good friends with this family because she had the child in school and became very close to the mom. She talked to me about how she dumped at the meeting about how we had failed this kid and went on about the very same exact things that I was realizing.
I don't know how G-d will take us through this and help us to become better at reaching the young people, but I can promise you I will try. I don't want this kids life to have meant nothing.
I had an interesting talk with someone from here the other day on facebook. We were talking about R. We all remember how people warned us that it was harder than we could imagine. Well, I'm sure I am the ONLY one who didn't believe them and thought how much harder could it be.
Just like what got us here, my experiences are that each R is different and it's just the way that G-d planned it. I'm just going to be honest and lay my cards out. Because I have done the work and been willing to take risks and change.
I would imagine that a fair percentage of us wish that our waywards would come back like tst did, willing to do anything and everything that smb required. Who on here wouldn't have wanted that list of demands to have been as detailed as hers was and not only had it, but gotten them to POJA about it. I sure would have. But that's not my story. My story is so different and yet they are both still about the journey of recovery.
I think it's fair to say that smb and many others continue to experience triggers that are fairly deep and painful to walk through. There are many of you who are having such a hard time forgiving and forgetting. Many of you have horribly had to walk through the bull dog stuff of a fake recovery and then had the blessings of a real one.
My WH didn't come home wanting to do everything I demanded. He relunctantly agreed to read about the MB principles and he quite honestly hasn't been in support of learning about them either. I remember Mimi telling me that they don't come home a completely different person, that as the alien takes over their mind and body when they finally leave the person that is left is still the husband of before. Albeit changed and probably damaged.
But it's those wayward characteristics that took so long to become a part of them, takes almost if not longer to go away. And I have been absolutely privledged to watch this happen in my H. Each day I see growth in him, then two steps back, then forward etc..
D-day is coming up on three years ago... and the reality is I haven't been with my H for over 4 years. I want it.... LOL
He got fired from his job and unemployment hasn't happened yet. He lied to me about it for almost 5 days, not because he told me a lie, but because he didn't tell me about it. He is a procrastinator, has sat on his 4th step, sat on it, sat on it to where I just wanted to . I started noticing that he was picking on me more and just not talking.
So let's add this up... Queenie's top needs are SF, Financial Security and Conversation. Not only had he not been meeting those needs but he started LB's about them as well. Can ya hear the drain noise yet.
Tuesday night after he got home bringing YS from practice we got into bed and I asked a simple yes and no question. He did the thing I HATE most, he didn't give me a simply answer. I just matter of fact said answere yes or no. He did, I thanked him, kissed him and rolled over and went to sleep.
In the morning, after not sleeping very well, heaviness on my heart for the young man who HUNG himself, for the red flags circulating in my head, I kissed him quickly, told him I loved him and went to work.
He KNEW something was wrong and we began talking on yahoo back and forth. I told him I just wanted to lay the cards on the table and be completely honest about my feelings but that I was afraid to. He told me he could understand that and that he was afraid. We agreed that for just that moment in time we would try and just be completely vulnerable and lay our cards out on the table. And so we began to.
In the end.... he picked up SAA and continued reading in it. He is meeting with his sponsor right now to do his 5th step. He has been talking way more to me the last few days, he has been helping with the chores, going to more meetings, and probably has a job once the drug tests come back.
I continue to pray to my G-d and seek his guidance on the next indicated step. For me, right now, right this moment is to get up, get dressed and get my son down to his lacrosse practice, go sit at starbucks and crossstitch the winnie the pooh pattern I found for my grandson and just be still.
Because G-d is working something out in him and it's that other side of the mountain which isn't my problem... It's G-ds charge.
Shabbat Shalom ya'll... If you are in the PNW, get OUTSIDE and breathe in G-d.....
We all remember how people warned us that it was harder than we could imagine. Well, I'm sure I am the ONLY one who didn't believe them and thought how much harder could it be.
Sorry Queenie, I just gotta
NO ONE BELIEVES US WHEN WE TELL THEM ... RECOVERY IS HARD !!!!!
Well, Vladi, the bright spot of my recovery. Always cheering me on and supporting me. I really actually miss you. Hope life is treating you well.
Thanks Pep, I won't answer any questions I deem too personal. However this has big a HUGE bone of contention with everyone and for me to not continue to be willing to be open about stuff then I'm a fake. NOPE Vladi, no SF yet. I look at it this way, either one day I have mud on MY face or someone ELSE has mud on their face for doubting that my M really was recovering and it just took a different path than what we wanted it to look like.
Sorry Queenie, I just assumed you would know it, being here for so long.
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veryone and for me to not continue to be willing to be open about stuff then I'm a fake. NOPE Vladi, no SF yet. I look at it this way, either one day I have mud on MY face or someone ELSE has mud on their face for doubting that my M really was recovering and it just took a different path than what we wanted it to look like.
I suppose when you get right down to it, we all have to live with that possibility. I know which one I am routing for tho
Lousy, without opening up a can of worms, I don't have any requirments. He is the one not having it with me. But to be honest, it has gone on for so very long, almost 4 years, now I am just frightened to be with him and really don't want to push it because I don't want to be rejected.
Yes, I think you are right. In fact yesterday he noticed that I had looked at his emails and deleted some of them. there was one particular generic one about becoming a friend with a woman, the interesting part was I got the same one. He talked to me about it and was confused how he got it. I actually deleted it before we talked. However, upon further thinking I realized that cleaning up his email wasn't my job nor really any of my business, so I told him while I was not sorry that I check his email on a regular basis. I was sorry for deleting things without asking him first. He actually said that wasn't a problem at all and went to work.
Hi Queenie, Stopping by Recovery to check on you. Sorry about those poor young souls that have passed. Very sad... Can't imagine how the parents must feel. With the boy was there signs? Was he acting depressed? Scary stuff. Sometimes we pass it off as teen angst and then it crosses over and turns deadly.
As for your M, keep taking it one day at a time. That is all that you can do. He is a tough nut to crack but he doesn't know he is living with a squirrel!
As for your weight, it is only a number that can change. In my mind you are one hot Jewish Mama. I used to tell people I am not overweight I am just too short. If I was 6 feet my weight would just be fine!
But it's those wayward characteristics that took so long to become a part of them, takes almost if not longer to go away. And I have been absolutely privledged to watch this happen in my H. Each day I see growth in him, then two steps back, then forward etc..
This is the part of R that is so darned hard to get through. This is the part for me that requires so much patience, and to not want to give up, or believe that the old M will resurface. I'm happy that you are seeing growth, I am too. Your patience is an inspiration to me.
This is the part for me that requires so much patience, and to not want to give up, or believe that the old M will resurface. I'm happy that you are seeing growth, I am too. Your patience is an inspiration to me.
Here's the interesting piece, I NEVER pray for patience. And yet G-d continues to put those things in my life that require it. I need to learn to change how I am praying.
Hi Vit, I am seeing growth, but more importantly I continue to grow as a woman, a wife, a mother and a child of G-d. My weight has for all my life been my defining factor of my worth and as hard as I try to lose weight it when I am in that place of non acceptance that I seem to continue to gain and I simply don't have that room.
I'm not giving up at all, but you know I'm really tired of feeling that I am less than a human being because I'm fat. I'm who I am today for a reason.
Just popping by to say HI! ...read the last few pages of your thread.
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RECOVERY is WAY HARD....
..and I would add that LIFE, period, can at times be HARD. .. just need to dust oneself off and not give up, as we all have a lot to learn (though taking a pause here and there, breathing deeply here and there, can be very helpful and more importantly it is very....healthy )
I know you're in my neck of the woods this weekend. We talked about my wife and I getting together with you while you are here. If you read this before Saturday morning, let me know if that's still on the docket. Otherwise our UA time this weekend is not going to include plans to meet up with you and plans are always easier to make than to change...
Sorry I haven't been around much. I have been taking care of a friend who is dying. She needs pretty much round the clock care and doesn't have a computer at home that I can use. She is in late stages of liver cancer and its just hard watching this again like with my mom.
But G-d is good as I have had the time and the experience to do this mitzvah.
Shabbat Shalom, Mark and everyone else..
Life has had its struggles and ups, I have kept in contact with various people, but mostly I have just been quiet because I need to hear G-d direct me and for some reason veggin on facebook was it. I have become addicted to bejeweled... It's pretty funny.
Yes, this was the week that I was supposed to come to Chicago and here I am. I didn't have any plans down and so was waiting to hear from my son what was happening. I thought he would want time with his girlfriend, but it seems I'm included in that plan. Darn... I really would have like to met up with your wife and you. That way I could have thanked you in person for all the time, energy and support you have given me.
He is still here for A school so I might be able to make it back out here once before he leaves. I'll let you know.
Obviously you are off to have UA time with your wife so if you read this... I hope it was awesome as you deserve the best in life. We are heading down to Chicago and the zoo... My friend recommended it and MS's GF wants to visit the zoo. Evidently she likes zoos.
I'll write more later when I get home. I will say thank you G-d for JT. She keeps me sober in ways I can't even explain. I love ya gal and have lets everything just be.
Happy Saturday all...
Be happy, live life but MOST OF ALL - TRUST YOUR G-D....
Hey dahling, just want to say your in my while your caring for your friend. Remember to take care of you as well. Caregiving for the terminal is draining in ways you dont think of until your doing it.
Sorry I haven't kept in touch better lately, but there has been so much going on and I'm just exhausted.
Where to start.... How about the mitzvahs....
My DD is under one month from her due date. It's the weirdest thing watching your child be pregnant. She moved two weeks ago into a larger apt and seems more content because the baby will have a room instead of a inlet. She painted the room yesterday and is doing a lot of the nesting stuff.
My OS's graduation went awesome, I'm so grateful that I went back there for it. I wished I had the nerve to meet you Mark, but I'm not going to beat myself up over that. Life is simply too short. By far it's my loss.
My YS, well he is alive. And that's a very good thing.
I am the proud mommy of a new puppy. I really believe that there should be puppy maternity leave. I'm exhausted, but finally think I have a routine in place the last two days. He is darling. Half rottweiler and half blue heeler. He's just to the point where he cries when he wants out, but I have NO TIME to get up and get him there. So, I'm on my toes. For sure I am sleep deprived, but I wanted to do one more dog and by the time it's life is probably over we will be retired and I won't want a dog them.
Now sadly....
My friend died last Sunday morning at 8:55. We were planning on visiting her after H's game, but we were too late. It went so much faster than anyone expected. She will be cremated and a memorial service is being planned, but the kids have gone back to college to finish the year and life goes on. My OS had a HORRIBLE time with this as he really thought of her as a second mom and he didn't get the chance to say goodbye.
I encouraged him to call her and talk to her on the phone when we knew it was coming to an end, but he wasn't ready and didn't know what to say. He keeps in touch with his friend and I know that's helping me.
And finally... update....
Pep, I will ALWAYS be grateful to you for the advice that you gave me when my friend found out about the triplets and the problems that she went through. She took many, many pictures, named the baby Angel and the one who is surviving is named Isaiah. My friend was put on bed rest, but with 3 kids at home that didn't work so she went into a specialized hospital and has been there for a few weeks. Woman from the AA women's group that I go to took a meeting up to her each week and my sponsor and I went on Wednesday again this week because she needed company.
I mean, imagine, you are so excited to give birth to babies, and one will live and one will die. I'm not trying to dramatize it, but this woman is my hero. She is only sober three years and has walked through this with amazing grace, dignity, strength and faith in G-d, but sadly she will need to begin the process of grief for the losing of the one baby. She is in labor, it's still too early for the babies so they are giving her steriods to help develop Isaiah's lungs. The c-section is scheduled for tomorrow. Please say a prayer for her and her family.
Life is moving way so fast. Recovery is moving along. Not much to report except I'm still very grateful for this opportunity and truly KNOW that even if my marriage doesn't make it. THIS TIME... I didn't hold back and there are NO regrets.
I'm glad your DS graduation was good......and your DD is due soon...... and YDS is still among the living.....We miss you here. You were such a mainstay for so long, however, I know life sometimes goes on........
And in case you are wondering, I just HATED the number of your LAST page, so that is why I posted multiple times......
And in case you are wondering, I just HATED the number of your LAST page, so that is why I posted multiple times......
Having a little trigger are we?
Nope not at all......
I'm not sure about where you have your defaults set, but mine are set at 10 posts per page, which makes THIS page 667........ No triggers, just didn't want to Queenie's thread stuck there, especially since there hasn't been much activity lately.....
Besides, Mark, haven't you taught us all BS's how to handle triggers?....
Thanks Not, I think I do like this page better. Although some people thing I am the spawn of the devil.
Soooo.. Isaiah was born at 4:19 on Friday, weight in at a whopping 3.1 lbs. I believe he is 13 inches long. Angel, was born at 4:22 and weighed in a 3.1 just like his older bro. Angel tried for 15 minutes to breath on his own, but he just wasn't able to make it any longer. Isaiah, came out screaming and kept on screaming as everyone attending to him.
He is doing just simply amazing. He does have a feeding tube because he isn't sucking yet, but that only is a matter of time. He seems to get much time out of the incubator and is laying on either mom and dad at all times when out. They say that's what's best for him with respect to development.
Angel, was held by every family member for a very long time and even throughout the night. After everyone left, mom and my AA sponsor were able to just look at Angel as G-d had made him with all his imperfections and all his perfections. To look at him he was absolutely identical to his brother. So much hair. It was just beautiful how it all ended and G-d really was able to create good out of very horrific situation.
I see ya smiling JT....
Mom is in a lot of pain, but being released probably from the hospital tomorrow, which means meals are oh her from now on. LOL Isaiah is supposed to stay a few weeks, but who knows what g-d has planned.
On another front, my navy man, OS called his father up today to ask him for advice in what to say to his GF's father. He wants to ask her to get married and we encouraged him to get the parents ok first. It was a very touching moment as it has been all week watching and hearing about how both are interacting more and more now, with my son even calling him dad. I can finally be at peace that what I fought so long and hard for was the RIGHT thing.
My H thanks me continually for all I did and even said that he wouldn't have done the same thing. Who knows, doesn't matter to me, what matters to me is my kids are healing, life continues to become normal and I'm still very grateful to G-d.
Oh... I think we had somewhat of our first fight today and it was so awesome because I was mad and frustrated and just kept to my ground, not worrying about whether he would walk out on me. You see, it's almost 3 years from D-day. Crack ho is but a nightmare that doesn't seem to recur anymore.
The lessons that I needed to learn have been remembered and my relationship with G-d still remains the most important precious thing I have in my life. I trust my G-d that he will get me through the hard times when I'm frustrated because I still don't have all that I want, but what I have back is my self respect and my marriage. It's not anything like it was before. It's so much better than I ever imagined, but it isn't anywhere where I hope it to be one day.
As my loving friend JT reminds me, G-d knows the plans he has for me. He tells me he has plans, just not when they will come to fruition. So like three years ago when my world was blown to smitherines, I walk in faith and trust my G-d.
And with truly all my heart I thank every single one of you who have walked with me. I have made my life busy and stay away from here because I don't have the knowledge down that others do on what to do when.
But, what I do have is the hope that no matter how hopeless a situation is, if you just trust your G-d. It will all work out just like it is supposed to.
at N2F posting a gazilion times to make such Queenies thread wasnt stuck on the-page-before-667
Queenie, a walking talking goddess. Your strength amazes me. I cant believe its been so long already! Yes that first 'fight' is a milestone, scary but empowering too as you realise you do have the right to not agree with everything they say LOL.
Faithful follower told me a few months back to take a break and I have to admit it feels really good to be away from here. There are so many triggers and sadness and I could never be a good nurse or dr. I feel the pain and want to help. Sometimes I feel helpless because so many people on here give the best advice and direction at the time that is needed, then I stupidly feel sorry for myself and don't think that I have anything valuable to offer. And when this alcoholic feels sorry for herself, that's just plain UGLY and not necessary.
So.... what's been happening. OMG so much. So much mazel tov's... My DD had her baby on 5-19. He weighed in at 7 lbs, 7 oz. He is 19.5 inches. He came early and my DD had the most awesome birth. Other than have discomfort and contractions during the day, really her labor only started around midnight, he was born at 9 am and she only pushed for 20 minutes. I got to be there for the whole birth. I had c-sections so that was something I had never experienced. It was just amazing and the little man is doing just awesome. I got to run errands with her last week and babysat while she took a LONG needed nap and daddy went and did things he did. I also got to have him overnight on Thursday, which was just awesome. He is so precious and reminds me of how much I love my babies. I had to laugh because there was NO WAY I would have EVER let my mom have my babies overnight, but the cool part about my life today is that I have an incredible close relationship with my D and that wouldn't have happened without the A.
3rd D-day came and went, not without a hard day or triggers. It seems that the time leading up to it, I did all the right things, acknowledge it, not give it to much power and talk about it with H, but BAM... It hit me and I was sad and crying inside the whole day. Even when the day was over and we were sitting at the lax game together I just simply couldn't get the sadness and the memory of that day. H was great, understanding, asked what he could do to help and I told him to just let me feel my feelings and cry, but hold me. He kept reassuring me, but he doesn't always have the words to express what he is feeling.
You know I really thought with us being back together and actually the anniversaries of us beginning around being around this same time would help, but that totaly destruction of time is embedded in my memory and maybe I won't ever forget. One thing I noticed, is as bad as he feels about it, he doesn't totally get it because he wasn't the one being destroyed. He was the one walking away into his world of fantasy. And maybe he just can't go to that place.
This has been such a feeling month with the two births and deaths and the excitment of knowing my son was proposing to his GF last night that I think I just was in overload. And that's ok, because I have learned from my G-d is that he is there walking through it with me and needs something from me to learn as I move forward. I don't always like it still or understand but I have learned to be obedient to him.
I also think that physically I have been exhausted because of the puppy, and that I'm not sleeping through the night still and that's hard on an old lady. brb
I haven't had much time to be the domestic goddess with all the lax games, work, my children, spending UA with hubby, my mtgs etc. One thing that I am noticing is I need more time with G-d and I have to find that space. It always helps me so much to just have my time and listen to his words and direction.
The end of the year of school is happening, all the chaos, etc and I really have come to learn how much I detest chaos. I worked very hard to become a woman of G-d and he doesn't want chaos in my world. So, I have to work hard to not get overwhelmed and just walk one step in front of the other and wait for G-d to show me when I get scared or lost.
I'm rambling and very sorry about that. The day that GS was born, I came home after being up all night with my DD and went to work for a little while. H and YS spent almost the entire day up there holding the baby and just being. Because YS's phone was broken or something I gave him my phone, and the end result was that I wasn't able to communicate with H which always makes me nervous. They ended up not getting home until really late and given that D-day and him deciding to not come home was just past I realized I was severly struggling inside, so when they did get home I just sobbed. H and I spoke and I realized that I needed him to just show a little appreciation for this day to me. If I hadn't have held onto G-d and had faith and trust in G-d then who knows how this day might have been. We wouldn't have been together and the chances of him having a relationship with any of his children or the chance to be present on his grandson's Birthday was slim to nill. And I just needed an acknowledgement of that. Not for my ego, but it helps me to stay focused and reassured that this was all worth it.
All those endless nights of crying myself to sleep, the terror of not knowing what was going to happen, the courage at times to face him as each BS needs to and defend myself for not just me but our children. He actually understood and we had a very close moment. We actually have LOTS of close moments. Our communication is just awesome and no, there is still no SF and it's very HARD on me to say the least, but then G-d is so wonderful and gracious and gives me either the strength to continue on or gives me a sign that it's not time to give up yet.
You know... here is what I focus on today. He loves me. He shows me he loves me by asking me if I am happy, which he hadn't asked EVER before. He is attentive and giving to me. He is involved with me and our children in a different way than before. He doesn't take it for granted and seems to be grateful for this opportunity. He continues to go to meetings regularly and his program is his program. I have to stay clear and out of it.
So Miss Queenie is a grandma. Guess we need to start calling you Granny now, huh?
While you are over three years out from D-day, you aren't yet a year at having your H back home. Triggers will lessen with time and care from him, Queenie. The joy you get from your grandson will eventually overshadow most of the trauma from your entire life. Grandkids have a wya of doing that.
MAZEL TOV! and welcome to granny-ville. WHats your G'ma name going to be? ITA understand the comment of the A making you closer to your children, just totally.
We past out 2nd D-day antiversary a wee bit ago, it certainly loses some omph with time. I wonder if because your separation was longer than most if that has some impact on your reaction. to Mr Q for holding you, even if he cannot articulate the things well. Actions not words anyway, right? Just sometimes those words can be healing balm to the soul
Ahhhhh, that has a truly sweet sound to it. I have missed you so much!!!!
I'm glad the break has done you well. While your support and advice has been sorely missed, regaining your inner strength and balance is always necessary....
I'm glad to hear of the baby news and that he and mom are doing wonderful. Not so much a surprise, since you are there....
Glad to hear of the great strides Mr. Q is taking in helping you deal with triggers.
You already know that they will lessen over time. And while you have been dealing with this longer than most, what Mark said about you two being back together is true. I know for me, that the second anniversary came and went and I FORGOT about it!!! If you had asked me when all this started if that would have been possible, I would have NEVER BELIEVED it. But it did. I knew it was coming, but when the day finally arrived, I forgot....I pray you get that same reprieve.
You've had a lot on your plate recently.....and through it all you've florished, even if YOU don't think so, *I* see it....it is most powerful!!!!
Queenie, that's so great to hear about your new Grandbaby! That's reason to dance, right there!
d-day annies, I'm sorry it was so tough. I'm not looking forward to the 2nd one, although I believe people around here that say each one is filled with less sadness. Here's to the future. It sounds like your H did the best that he could. I don't think that they ever can understand, unless of course they have been where we are, as we cannot ever understand how they feel about what they did to the M.
3rd D-day came and went, not without a hard day or triggers...
...that totaly destruction of time is embedded in my memory and maybe I won't ever forget. One thing I noticed, is as bad as he feels about it, he doesn't totally get it because he wasn't the one being destroyed. He was the one walking away into his world of fantasy. And maybe he just can't go to that place.
Queenie! So good to hear your update. Congratulations on your new grandbaby! I am so happy for all the good that has come into your life since we talked so many moons ago.
I'm so happy things have turned around for you. You had such incredible perseverance. Your journey isn't over yet, and much of the reward is still ahead of you.
About the D-day anniversary...I'm sorry #3 was tough. I think the more we've been through, the longer that day haunts us. Although my FWH and I been recovering, our third D-day haunted me so much I refused to celebrate our 40th anniversary, which came just a couple of days after. Just couldn't do it. H understood, bless him, and now our 4th D-day is right around the corner and guess what? I DON'T CARE! So, take heart.
Let me jump on that bandwagon and say CONGRATS to you and your family for all the awesome milestones.
Sadly, I get so wrapped up with the drama on the Surviving forum that I forget there are people here on Recovery. I wish the Surviving forum would shrink and the dramas would end and we'd all be partying over here in Recovery.
In God's time... I know.
Keep up the great work, Queenie. You continue to be an inspiration to me.
Long time no hear. I am absolutely stunned that you are still in this M! Still no SF?????!!!!! Its way up there on your needs and still nothing. Sorry I have nothing left to say.......
Thanks for keeping in touch. I apologize for not coming here more often, but I just find myself not feeling that I have anything useful to offer others and I am just addicted to bejeweled. I know Hope, I kicked your [censored] last week, but today is a new day. You go girl, and good luck.
Life has certainly changed for my daughter and she is struggling. I honestly wonder what people think sometimes but then I remember to not play G-d and stay out of it. She is struggling with his sleep patters. Papa and I have taken the baby each shabbat and yet when she has time to sleep, she is awake doing other stuff then wonders why she is tired. DUH
MFL, I just knew my actions would shock you. I honestly can't explain what keeps me going. However last night I hit a wall about life and addressed it when I got home. Without a doubt as time has gone on, we are so much closer than I ever dreamed, but then old patterns and habits are creeping back in. I have enough understanding to know this is NOT GOOD and I'm not willing to stand for it.
All my kids either spent Father's Day with us or the one who hated him the most called to wish him a happy day. I feel that my mission is complete. I have done my job as a mom in protecting my kids. Again, let me reiterate, I have my timeline of one more year and then I'm free to make choices that I might not want to make but have to.
We both keep trying and talking and I truly believe that as long as we both keep moving in a direction of becoming better marriage partners we are good to go. SO Vladi, you might be speechless but boy what I wouldn't give to see your face when life does really turn out AWESOME for me. LOL
I find myself in a period where I am working on the steps towards my food and it's a very detailed, deep inside kind of work where we are getting down to causes and conditions. It's put me in a place where I am just being, but pushing at the same time. I feel that this work needs to be done so that if my M doesn't make it, then I won't have those ugly insecurities of worthlessness etc holding me back like I did.
Overall, life is a blessing. My kids are growing up, happy, living their OWN lives. My military son is coming home soon and stationed in Bremerton which is cool. He might end up in San Diego, but that will be his cross to bear.
Queenie!! So good to hear from you. You are the judge for what is working for you. You have been through so much so I think we should all respect your judgment for how things are going to go in your life. You know the rules, you've worked the plans, and you know your limit. You are a strong, strong woman and I imagine a FABULOUS grandma! Aren't grandbabies the best???
(((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))) right back to you! Queenie! It looks like you are hanging in there pretty well and now a grandma. That is so wonderful. I can't wait to be one.
So are things going Ok? Last I heard, before I left, you were making some progress. I hope that is still true of course I could just go read the last bunch of pages on this thread and not bother you with the questions. You----> <----Me
Congrats Bubbe! I'm still dealing with an 8 year old, so I'm hoping my grandma days are far away
It looks like you are doing well, on a personal level. I still don't quite get the withholding of SF I won't bother asking all the standard questions...I just want you to know I'm thinking of you...and so proud of what you have accomplished with your family, and your recovery.
Thanks for keeping in touch. I apologize for not coming here more often, but I just find myself not feeling that I have anything useful to offer others a
ah hem....YOU know Miss Q, this is NOT true.......you have plenty to offer. Did you NOT do a Plan A?? or an AMAZING Plan B?????.......
You have PLENTY of insights and useful stuff to offer.....so I'm not having any of that....
In fact, Miss I-don't-think-I-have-anything-useful-to-offer, do you KNOW that there is a certain semi-newbie over in SAA who is in Plan B who is currently READING your thread from the BEGINNING right now as we speak, err, I mean write??? ( ...Hello Miss Scottie....). She is learning quite a bit from YOU and all the people who helped you along. Heck, she's ever copied and pasted bits from Mimi.......so no more of this negativety, okay love???......
I'm so glad about the update though. The baby sounds marvelous, and yeah, if only our DD would do what we want......
And I am sooooo very very PROUD of you....sticking up for YOU and speaking your EN's and truths.....ahhhh, you have grown so much....
Now just keep these updates coming with a bit more frequency okay....or at the very least check your email......
In fact, Miss I-don't-think-I-have-anything-useful-to-offer, do you KNOW that there is a certain semi-newbie over in SAA who is in Plan B who is currently READING your thread from the BEGINNING right now as we speak, err, I mean write??? ( ...Hello Miss Scottie....). She is learning quite a bit from YOU and all the people who helped you along. Heck, she's ever copied and pasted bits from Mimi.......so no more of this negativety, okay love???......
Honestly, no I didn't. but thanks for saying that and so much more.
I love you tons, Not. You have really walked me through a lot and am my hero in so many ways. Check email? What cha mean DAHLING....
I really still miss Mimi so much. I hope she is happy and ok.
Hi SL, I have to go see if there is an update. Thanks SL for the support. Honestly, I still quite don't get it myself. And if it were me... I would NEVER.. but I HAVE TO TRUST G-D that he knows what's going on and will make it all turn to good. I've layed this at his feet and just hope that the answers or ACTIONS come soon. But isn't it G-ds timing and not MINE. UGH...
Dances, though there might be a SLIGHT difference in our ages, our walk in marriage is so very similar. I read your thread and it just tore at my heart because I understand those feelings. I don't want you to hurt anymore and it's hard because there isn't anything I can do to change this, but give you a hug and tell you how much I care about you and want to see your heart, soul and life at peace.
Mr. Mark, do I miss you. OH VEY What I miss most is your sermons and writings that you posted to me so often. They brought so much comfort to my spirit and right now that's something I need. Not because of my M, but personally.
Tackling this food deal to many seems very easy, but it's not. It's the causes and conditions that made my loss of 88 lbs from the infidelity and they gain it almost all back be so obvious. I didn't change my "personal reality", and so now the time has come for me to tackle that head on. So.... when you are bored, wanting to share... PLEASE.... do...
I gotta say.. being a bubbe is so much fun, but tiring when you take him overnight. NOW I know why women my age shouldn't have babies.
Thank you so much for taking time to stop by. I surely miss you and so many others. I'm on vacation and have a quiet day pretty much to myself, so I'm trying to catch up on people.
Hi Queenie! Just saw you over on Lifer's thread and thought I'd pop by and catch up on your life. So much better now than before, isn't it? I'm happy that you seem to know it will keep getting better.
Especially now that you're speaking up. You go, girl! Nothing to fear but fear itself...
Queenie, how long has it been since WH has been home and you have not had SF? There is something either seriously wrong with him or he is getting it somewhere else. This is not normal.
Didn't I read a few months back that you had a june deadline with this? Stick to the plan queenie or are you happy to live as room mates?
Happy Monday, Rightthere and Vittoria.... Sounds like you are doing well. I'm very grateful for that you two.
You are right My, the plan was June of next year. That' when my youngest graduates high school. It will have been two years we are back together and so that's still my plan.
I will not break up this family right before my son's senior year. That happened to my middle one and I won't be the cause of so much pain.
Only G-d knows what's really going on and for today I just have to keep my flashlight on him and call it good. It's how I got to this point and it's how I will survive if the time comes when I need to walk away.
Thank you so much for what you said on my thread QUeenie. You are a very special person to me and were a great support and encouragement for me in the bad old days.
Your an amazing, loving and caring woman. I understand the time frame, hope things have improved well before then
I just pray you'll have the strength if/when it is time
As long as I listen to G-d, I can do anything. He didn't bring me to this place to leave me.
I'm glad we got some time tonight to talk Lil. I sure miss you.
So quick update on life...
DD is doing better as a mommy. The baby, I need to pick a name for him, anyways he is doing great. Two months old today, went to drs, got shots, weighs 13.5 lbs and 23 inches long. He is eating, sleeping and not nearly as fussy.
MS has come home from Great Lakes Ill. He is stationed in Bremerton, was supposed to work in auxilary but got pulled to nuclear part. He isn't nearly as happy, but not my problem.
YS got back together with the darling young lady he dated earlier this year. I'm very happy for him. We go to get his driving written test tomorrow and schedule his drive. I hope he passes so we both can have some freedom. It's time for him to be able to drive alone.
H is working 10 hour days because two people got fired. He seems happy in his job which I know for a man is a good thing. He is attending multiple meetings during the week and we try to hit one or two together.
As for me. Well, I'm still working on my food. Last week was horrible and not sure why. I have learned that when it's the darkest, I am about to uncover and learn something. It hasn't happened yet, but I keep praying.
I'm singing in the choir again for high holidays services. Hubby and I are NOT spending enough time along an so tomorrow night we have set up a date night for just the two of us. I'm going to work on the emotional needs with him. He was receptive to that. We actually don't have much lovebusting going on in this house which is so different than before all the happened.
Oh, I am crafting again. I made a crossstich for my GS, I am pleased with the stiching, the quilted border, but my talents are certainly not in framing items. OH well. However, in the last two to three days, I have made a red, white and blue table runner for my family room and kitchen. I have finally pushed through that and am happily creating for my home. That I am please to say brings me so much joy and doesn't harm me in anyway.
So an interesting situation came up the last few days and I just want to write about it. H and I have been putting other people first and things for a while now and made a date to go visit the car show on Saturday. He asked me a few weeks ago and keeps talking about it. Because of life, kids etc our UA has been WAY TOO LOW.
On Tuesday, I brought my YS down to DOL for the written test which he passed on his first try, but because he didn't bring his driving school certificate down he couldn't schedule the drive. Now mind, you driving to and from the DOL is about 45 minutes both way. So on Wednesday we get go down, he waits in line, I run an errand because he is so grouchy and not fun to be around because he's being inconvenienced of waiting and ends up scheduling the drive for Saturday at 1:15. I immediately realize this is going to cut into our date night and just accept it as a living amend to my son.
Wednesday night as we were getting into bed, H and I talk about the drive and the timing and in a very passioned manner says it's too bad for him and he'll just have to find another way to get to the drive. I guess H had asked OS to take him and he can't. Seeing how passioned about wanting to go and spend time together I just leave it alone and pray about it.
Honestly, it was so weird because one of the things he said to me when he left was that he was tired of putting others first and he wanted to put himself first. I.E be happy with crack ho.
So, not really understanding where he is coming from, I do ask my DD to take YS on the drive and she can. I figured out that I can drive YS and the car down to her place, leave them there. They go take the drive test and if YS passes, he can drive home, if not, she can bring him home or he can wait for us.
However, the issue of my H's attitude shocked me so on the way to our AA mtg last night I broached the subject and asked him to help me understand what he was feeling and where he was coming from. He explained that from his perspective, he planned this day with me and has been looking forward to it for a long time and wants time alone with me. He reminded me that YS had ample opportunities to go take the written and he was either too tired or made plans and it didn't fit into his schedule. He didn't feel it was our problem to have to rearrange our schedule to suit him because we generally are always doing that. He's right.
I'm not sure if I totally agree. I feel as part of my program that it's our responsibility to get him his license, however from a recovery perspective it really warms my heart that he is so insistent we go together and enjoy the day just the two of us. I will say that a car show isn't really something I enjoy, but I am doing this for him because it will make him happy. I would rather go quilt shopping etc. The reason he doens't want to wait until later is it's supposed to be hot and he doesn't want me to be uncomfortable.
So, for the first time in a very long time I am having to choose between what I think a parent should do and being a wife. UGH....
How have others dealt with these things in recovery?
Well, I think Dr. Harley would say to POJA the situation. It does not sound as if you are really enthusiastic about the choice of date location/activity. Are you also going to lunch/dinner - something that would increase your enthusiasm for the day?
I agree with your H about schedule for driving test. Plans had already been made and YS should not expect you to change them because YS did not have the correct paperwork or did not want to schedule some other time.
In our M, we are not walking the walk as well as we should be. We plan our UA time, but don't always get the hours. When that happens, both H and I really feel bad. We chart our time together and track it. It is amazing how the feelings follow the UA time.
With a bit of a blessing from God, when your son is married and living his own life with his own wife and your grandchildren, you will still be a wife...
Motherhood is but for a season, but marriage is supposed to be until death.
Being a parent is the one job that has as its primary goal, the elimination of the job itself.
Go to the show. Have fun with your H. Your son will get his license whether on Saturday or some other day. It isn't your job as his mother to make your life revolve around his needs and desires. A D/L is not a need at his age. You asked your daughter, she agreed to help out and now you and your H are free to follow your plans.
Thanks Mark, I totally agree and plan to do just that.
Thanks Army for your comments. Is it what I would choose not necessarily, but I'm honestly just happy to spend time with him and since I haven't really every done something like this before I want to keep an open mind on how much fun I will have. You betcha I'll get a meal out of the deal.
I like that, it's the only job in the world that the primary goal is to eliminate it.
I miss your sermons, have I told you lately. I also read you are leaving for a few days. Where to? Have fun? Does it include wife and fishing?
I'm going to our vacation property tonight and into either late tomorrow night or early Sunday morning. Alas, my wife can't accompany me, but I have lots of yard work to catch up on there. (I don't go there as often as I once did) and if I get the work done, I might get in a little fishing in before the sun goes down tomorrow.
I can't stay through Sunday since we are working on recruiting our next marriage class to begin in the fall and I need to be there to help answer questions people might begin asking. This time around it is more like the MB home study course. We will be using HNHN, Love Busters and the 5 Steps To Romantic Love workbook. If you drop me a line, I'll send you the link by email.
I am going to be preaching on August 22 and we'll be holding a preview session for our class. It will be the final push for getting people to sign up.
My topic is going to be "Marriage." Go figure...
It will be an expansion of the post "A perfect Marriage" that I already posted on my Musings thread, so you can get a head start if you'd like.
This time around I am going to be recorded digitally, so I hope to have mp3 file for those interested when it's all done.
Enjoy the car show, Queenie. Being together enjoying yourselves is what really matters most in all of this anyway.
So here I am ready to go, weather is incredible and G-d just LOVES to remind me who in IN CONTROL. Oh yes, it isn't me.
All my planning to make the day perfect, be ready to go, out the door, YS covered for drive and WHO decides to sleep his first 12 hours straight. Yes, you got it Jaboman.
LOL, it goes against all my beliefs to wake a sleeping baby, but here goes.
Happy Saturday, may it be a great one for you all.
The 40 days leading up to Rosh Hashanah begins tonight. Wow. I can't believe another year has almost past. I have a lot to look at, but I know that G-d is right there with me.
For many who know my story, there was ONE SINGLE event that made me stop and realize I was losing him and something was wrong in my marriage. I didn't investigate or pay attention. My stupidity.
I believe there was one single event last night in all of my recovery that solidifies we are recovering. I ordered Chapman's books for the both of us. The men addition for him and the regular addition for me. I asked him on the way home from our meeting if he had the mail key because I was hoping that the books had arrived. He hadn't. I didn't ask him and in fact forgot about it, but when we got home, he made a special trip out, dead tired, and went and checked the mail box specifically to see if the books had come in.
Thank you so much G-d for this. Thank you so very much.
Queenie, just want you to know that you are an inspiration to me and some times I wonder how you did it.
Just a note to let you know that H told me 3 weeks ago that he didn't feel any different after being home for over 6 months. I am still praying to God and I know he will answer my prayers and show my H that he still loves me. I have turned everything over to Him. My life, my H life , my children's lives, and my marriage. For I am tired and cannot do this any more. I prayed and cried for almost 3 hours yesterday. I haven't given up hope and I won't give it up.
Told H last night that I still prayed for our marriage and that I wasn't going to divorce him. H told me that he had free will. Told him that I knew that but God would show him where to go and lead him there. Found out H has never read the Bible even though he has one that I gave him. Told that was his problem, maybe if he read the Bible he would actually learn something.
I have decide to leave MB for a while to work on myself but everyone here will never be far from my thoughts.
Thank you so much for telling me your plans. I won't have to worry about you knowing that you are so in G-ds hands. Sometimes crying, praying, and being so beaten down is just G-ds way of having the clean canvas to reinvent into the person HE desires for us.
I know. I was there my friend. If you should check on here, try and get this book called, God is More Than Enough, by Tony Easton. It's about Psalm 23 and it was my story. I can't recommend it enough.
Should you get lonely and want to email...**edit**. Or if you do facebook, we could become friends. Email me and I'll tell you my real name.
Most important. G-d loves you more than anyone EVER could. He knows how you are suffering, he knows what you need and you are doing the very best thing. Seeking him and TRUSTING him.
I love you and wish you peace on this journey, but knowing how hard it is.
Just checking out some of the threads over here on the Recovery side. I get tired of being stuck in the Affair forum. And the new people just keep coming and coming. What is wrong with people?
Hope all is well with you, Queenie. Take care and visit sometime.
In 15 days, it will be 4 years since D-day. I'm a better person, my relationship with G-d is still the most important thing in life to me and my new marriage is alive and growing.
I'm very sad today, I lost a very special friend to me, and feel the pull to come and here and thank you all again so very much for what you helped me through. I couldn't have done it without you.
So much good, so many blessings, and yet the remembrance of my lessons with G-d have remained forever in my heart. My grandson is almost a year old, my son in the navy is getting married in a little over a month and a half, the last season of lacrosse with my youngest is coming to an end and with G-ds grace he will graduate. I received my 24 year clean and sober coin last night.
My sister lives with me clean and sober, doing very well, my husband is coming to work for my school district and I might be up for a new job and I'll know sometime soon hopefully.
I stayed up and watched Will and Kate's wedding like I did for his mom. My heart so heavy because Princess Diana was someone that I strive to be like every day since those devastating days almost 4 years ago.
Pep, I love your profile picture on facebook. I love you dearly for all the kindness and encouragement you have shown me. It seems that many of us have gone away, gone somewhere else or whatever. And though I don't get here hardly at all, I remember everyone of you, yes Vladi even you and with all my heart and soul, pray that you have happiness, joy and peace in your lives.
Well its June 2011. You did say that if the SF was still missing from your M you would be leaving. I said I hoped you'd have the strength when the time came. That was over 1yr ago.
The reason that I felt that the networking marketing business was bad for our marriage is because it gave WH the opportunity to have the A without my questioning him. We had made it to certain level in the business, and he really wanted to push to get to the next one. We sat down with the DDs one day and the four of us made a pact that WH would pursue the business hard for the next year, even if that meant being gone 7 nights a week. I was to take care of the DDs so that their life remained much the same with activities, etc and would participate in the business as much as I could within reason. So, 6 months in to the agreement, WH started his A with OW and I never questioned his whereabouts. He would never have gotten away with it otherwise.
I absolutely do agree with this. I think this part gave them the ability to be gone and we didn't even question it. In fact encouraged it.
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WH is looking for a person or thing to make him happy.
Back in October 07, G-d smacked me over the head with this realization. WH was absolutely miserable in his life and he was running and blaming ME for everything. He wanted someone to make him happy, but the reality is it's not my job nor anyone elses. His happiness comes from G-d and that relationship.
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I realize that I have to work on ME now - Plan B. It looks, smells and tastes pretty hopeless to me. I do feel better without contact right now.
Plan B was my saving grace of serenity and peace. It was so hard at first, but it was during this time that I believe G-d really worked in me and my life. It was when G-d had the time to design me into Queenie and have me become the woman he always meant me to be.
Believer's mantra was affairs almost ALWAYS end.
My MANTRA - you DON'T know what is happening on the other side. have FAITH and walk in TRUST of what G-d can do no matter how hopeless..
So what happened b/w May and October or so? There is a chunk missing when I guess the board was down. And what WAS happening on the other side? How did the affair finally end?
Well its June 2011. You did say that if the SF was still missing from your M you would be leaving. I said I hoped you'd have the strength when the time came. That was over 1yr ago.
Wow, it's been a LONG time since I have been here. How is it that life goes by so fast and you almost do't realize it until you wake up a poof, it's been over 4 months. I think about this place on and often wondering how people are doing. But life just simply got so busy the last few months, and emotionally I wasn't really paying attention to what was happening around me.
So as I look back it's really been about a year since I have checked in with what has happened. So hang on... Last September my MS, turned 21. In December my YS was involved in an accident where someone was killed. He sustained non life threatening injuries, but the emotional scars are there. In March I turned 50, he turned 18, in April my DD turned 25, my grandson turned a year old a month later. Throw in my 4 year D-day anniversary. Hubby changed jobs and started working for the school district like me. I applied for an upgrade in jobs and bombed the skills test. In June, 4 days before graduation my YS learned he would be graduating. Then two weeks later my MS got married and in July he left for the Persian Gulf for 7.5 months.
True to form Vladi was here asking whether I had gotten what I wanted and if not did I have the courage to leave my marriage. I saw that post Vladi, and at the time I simply chose not to answer because I was afraid. And here I am today, thinking you know what, it's not your life, it's mine. So no Vladi, there is no SF between us. It is an issue in my life, but I gotta say I'm not afraid to leave anymore. I just don't want to.
My marriage is absolutely NOTHING like it was before. There is a commitment to us that has never been before. There is a spirit of love between us that has grown. There is a gentleness that has never existed. We enjoy begin with each other, we cuddle, we kiss, we talk, we spend time together. We give each other space to learn about ourself.
We have traveled to more places than ever before. I am not stupid, I hold him accountable to his time, I watch his calls, I read his emails, I keep watch for ANY signs. But ya know at some point it just doesn't matter what the past was. It's the present now. We have build a new life, a new marriage. We continue to go to AA and work our own program.
Is it perfect, no. I miss SF, but more importantly what I realized is that I love this man. NO OTHER MAN can give me the whole picture like this man. No one would have the history, no one would be my children's father, no one would be my grandson's papa. No one would just have one family the way we have it now. No other man will offer me this which in it's whole is more important that one single piece. Albeit a very strong one.
We are friends, we share a life and whether most people want to really hear this, I made a vow till death do us part and I can't leave because of that vow. Because through all this, I have to remember my g-d has my back and he provides me with everything I need, not necessarily everything I want.
I am not perfect and truly I have my days where I'm frustrated and not content, but when I really peel away the onions on my feelings it's always about what I want, I, I, I and this alcoholic/addict doesn't have the luxury to live like that anymore.
If that means I'm chicken or settling, then so be it, but ya know I'm reasonably happy and that's a pretty darn good way to be. My YS who in many ways was the most affected by the affair, has struggled internally and couple with the accident, well he just is struggling to find himself. He has bravely decided to go into the marines. If he does get in, then he'll be off living his life and do you know who is the most excited, my husband because in his words, we get to finally start the next chapter in our life which is just about us. That is so different than before this.
As for me personally. My weight, continues to haunt me. My food seems to be in a place of peace, thank g-d. While I love having my grandson over often, I have gotten a voice and said no on numerous occasions when I felt the need to take care of myself. I have become union chapter president and OMG, what a trip this is. A HUGE challenge to me on so many levels. If there is one thing that concerns me, it's my relationship with my g-d. My ego has put a wall in that I'm struggling to let loose. Tonight at my meeting, I said if there was one thing that I was most fearful about it's that I haven't discovered what g-ds will or plans for my life is and I am afraid I will never ever truly be comfortable with myself until I do. So, I look, I pray and I seek g-d earnestly these days.
Congratulations on the wedding. Was your experience as mother of the bride as easy as mine? What an absolute joy not to have to make all those decisions.
Ah... grandchildren... G-ds greatest gift of joy. I hope that happens very soon for you.
Congratulations on the wedding. Was your experience as mother of the bride as easy as mine? What an absolute joy not to have to make all those decisions.
It was pretty nice actually!! I did help out somewhat with all the tables, linens and catering, but I pretty much let her do all the choosing and I just pulled out the checkbook! Isn't it so wonderful to see your kids grow into adults?
Oh, my sister continues to live with us and that has been quite a help financially. I spoke earlier that my husband took a job in the district as a mechanic. You know the old adage, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Let's just say that I have friends all over the district that would be honest and let me know if someone happen to show up at work to see MY husband and this wouldn't necessarily have to be crack ho.
Which I must say, except for the stunt she pulled last year, and in which I completely handled like a TRUE GODDESS, has disappeared and no longer impacts our life at all. I know that seems unbelievable, but time has such a healing affect when you can let it.
Mehr, tell me which time period you are looking for again, October to when? What year and I'll let you know. Honestly, even though it's been so many years, I still remember this like it was yesterday. That pain and destruction will always be a part of me to remember not for bitterness, but to remember MY part and ensure that skinsgal never comes back and queenie keeps on growing and living in a healthy way.
Congratulations on the wedding. Was your experience as mother of the bride as easy as mine? What an absolute joy not to have to make all those decisions.
It was pretty nice actually!! I did help out somewhat with all the tables, linens and catering, but I pretty much let her do all the choosing and I just pulled out the checkbook! Isn't it so wonderful to see your kids grow into adults?
This was exactly my experience, pull out the checkbook. Yes it is. It has been somewhat hard because I'm such a control freak, but hubby is reminding me of our future and how it's OUR time and so there seems to be a peace settling in that they are raised, about to all live on their own and we can thank g-d for what we have.
As for the accident, there were 4 people in the car. They weren't driving drunk or drugs involved, thank g-d. But the driving was driving way too fast. It was so sad that someone had to die, someone who has so much potential in life, someone who had an amazing walk with G-d. I remember at the time thinking g-d took the wrong one, that my son, as much as I love him, wasn't half this person. But this isn't my decision, it's my grace to be grateful for what I have.
The young man who was driving is in jail. We don't know how long he will be there for and hopefully he doesn't go to prison. He seems to be doing ok, taking responsibility and not trying to further borden the family who lost their child, but it's hard. He was an 18 year old who just made a stupid mistake and he will have to pay for it the rest of his life. But then there was a life lost and they will have to live with it the rest of their life.
Congratulations on the wedding. Was your experience as mother of the bride as easy as mine? What an absolute joy not to have to make all those decisions.
It was pretty nice actually!! I did help out somewhat with all the tables, linens and catering, but I pretty much let her do all the choosing and I just pulled out the checkbook! Isn't it so wonderful to see your kids grow into adults?
This was exactly my experience, pull out the checkbook. Yes it is. It has been somewhat hard because I'm such a control freak, but hubby is reminding me of our future and how it's OUR time and so there seems to be a peace settling in that they are raised, about to all live on their own and we can thank g-d for what we have.
How are you doing?
I am probably the happiest I have been in my adult life and it just gets better and better. Thank you for asking. DH and I are having a wonderful life together. We recently went on a trip up north to some old places we frequented when we were dating and it was so romantic. The older he gets, the more romantic he is.
Now, I just get to set back and wait for some cute little grandchildren. I can't wait! You must really enjoy yours. What a blessing for you and your H.
As for the accident, there were 4 people in the car. They weren't driving drunk or drugs involved, thank g-d. But the driving was driving way too fast. It was so sad that someone had to die, someone who has so much potential in life, someone who had an amazing walk with G-d. I remember at the time thinking g-d took the wrong one, that my son, as much as I love him, wasn't half this person. But this isn't my decision, it's my grace to be grateful for what I have.
The young man who was driving is in jail. We don't know how long he will be there for and hopefully he doesn't go to prison. He seems to be doing ok, taking responsibility and not trying to further borden the family who lost their child, but it's hard. He was an 18 year old who just made a stupid mistake and he will have to pay for it the rest of his life. But then there was a life lost and they will have to live with it the rest of their life.
Such a senseless tragedy. How tragic for that boy's parents. Thank the Lord your son survived, Queenie.
We are very lucky. We get the little tyke almost over night every weekend. It is different, especially when he runs and knicks his knee and I have to explain to mom and dad what happened. It cracks me up there first time parent worries.
He is 17 months now, running all over the place, starting to talk, really absorbing things that you say to him and interacting with you so much more. His personality is very much like his mom's, but I have to say the dad is really an amazing parent and they are both doing a wonderful job to raise a very happy baby. I'll say he does have a temper on him, and he is stubborn, but... as grandparents we just get to love and hand back.
I'm so glad you are happy. It gives people hope ya know. I think it also puts a smile on g-ds spirit to see that out of the ashes good can happen. AND I will forever owe my new marriage to marriage builders. I know I might not have worked these plans perfectly, but I did work them. Plan A and Plan B, I believe with all my heart they work if you work it.
Queenie!!!! I was thinking about you the other day and wondering how you were, and here you are. I'm so sorry about you son's accident, that must have been horrible for him. Yikes!
You've been missed around here so much with your calm mother-earth presence. You were such an up-lifter for many of us around here.
We're about to have grandbaby six by next weekend. They're naming him Jacob. I can't wait to see him and hold him.
Thank you so much for your comments. That so touches my heart. It's weird, I miss this place a lot. I wouldn't have made it through that period of my life without you all. You helped me become queenie and loved me as i grew, being my biggest cheerleader.
I think I get some of my "needs" met of keeping up with many of you through Facebook and so coming here just didn't happen.
Congratulations on your grandson Jacob being born. What a great name. Grandkids just have a wave of evening life out, don't they? You have more than this one right? I'm old remember
Honestly, one would have thought that the accident might have had a huge impact on my son, but to be honest, he is still a 18 year old jerk most of the time. His driving isn't really any better and he doesn't seem to appreciate being alive or coming out of what he did as in tack as he did. But then he is very similar to his dad and expressing emotions isn't in his vocabulary.
Yes, Jacob will make number six. He is my youngest son's first and my son is so excited. He's out of the Army now (except for the Reserves) and is now a nurse. Grandbabies are the best! I'm still very partial to my oldest granddaughter as her birth really impacted our recovery.
We're doing good except for some medical issues (another long story).
I'm so glad to hear that you're doing well. It was quite a ride on that infamous rollercoaster.
P.S. I don't get on FB too much anymore-- had to cull it down because of an "intrusion" (long story).
Hello Queenie. I am so glad that you have come out of this on the other side, and you are more amazing than you were before. I feel like I know you, from reading your thread. There were times that I would get so caught up, I was going to post to you, and then I remembered I was reading a story from the past, and you were better now. I thank you. My hope is that my thread will be that to someone someday, as a pay it forward for all of the help I received from yours and Mimi's threads.
Hi, Queenie, I just came today, the first time since May. It has been difficult but I've hung in there. I am glad things are doing well with you. I will be a first time grandmother in March. My 47th birthday is March 6th and the baby will be due March 16th. DD 21 got pregnant about the same time her Dad decided to run away to Idaho. Guess he'll miss out. But I am so happy for you.
True to form Vladi was here asking whether I had gotten what I wanted and if not did I have the courage to leave my marriage. I saw that post Vladi, and at the time I simply chose not to answer because I was afraid. And here I am today, thinking you know what, it's not your life, it's mine. So no Vladi, there is no SF between us. It is an issue in my life, but I gotta say I'm not afraid to leave anymore. I just don't want to.
My marriage is absolutely NOTHING like it was before. There is a commitment to us that has never been before. There is a spirit of love between us that has grown. There is a gentleness that has never existed. We enjoy begin with each other, we cuddle, we kiss, we talk, we spend time together. We give each other space to learn about ourself.
We have traveled to more places than ever before. I am not stupid, I hold him accountable to his time, I watch his calls, I read his emails, I keep watch for ANY signs. But ya know at some point it just doesn't matter what the past was. It's the present now. We have build a new life, a new marriage. We continue to go to AA and work our own program.
Is it perfect, no. I miss SF, but more importantly what I realized is that I love this man. NO OTHER MAN can give me the whole picture like this man. No one would have the history, no one would be my children's father, no one would be my grandson's papa. No one would just have one family the way we have it now. No other man will offer me this which in it's whole is more important that one single piece. Albeit a very strong one.
We are friends, we share a life and whether most people want to really hear this, I made a vow till death do us part and I can't leave because of that vow. Because through all this, I have to remember my g-d has my back and he provides me with everything I need, not necessarily everything I want.
Its your life Queenie. I knew this would happen. I just hope people here don't view this as a Marriage Builders success story......
ps... has you're husband been checked for STD's? My guess is he's contracted something and doesn't want to infect you - its the only plausible explanation other then he's getting it elsewhere
So it's taken me a long time to get the nerve to answer you. What I realized is my recovery is my recovery and a success story to me. And that's all that matters. I'm happier than I have ever been in my life. I don't have drama, I have what I always wanted... serenity and peace inside of me. And I'm very grateful for that.
I came here a broken person with a destroyed marriage and no real hope of it healing. I worked my butt off to become what G-d envisioned for me, and left the work to my husband in G-ds hands. And when it was G-d's timing we found our way back to each other and it has far exceeded my hopes or desires.
I'll take it.....
Hope you all are doing well and that include you Vladi..
I came here a broken person with a destroyed marriage and no real hope of it healing. I worked my butt off to become what G-d envisioned for me, and left the work to my husband in G-ds hands. And when it was G-d's timing we found our way back to each other and it has far exceeded my hopes or desires.
Hi Queenie! Glad to hear your and your H are doing well- not sure if you remember me- I haven't been here in ~3 years or so and love catching up and seeing old threads (I never in a million years thought there would be so many names and threads I'd recognize 3 years later!). My old name was just "eeyoree"- but I can't get into that account anymore, so I added an "e"- ha.
I remember your story of strength- your H had only been home a few months when I left MB. I moved out of state with my BH and our recovery has been everything that MB promises- we're doing great. Its so great to see there's so many happy stories- I'm happy to see you're doing well, and I see that Looking4 even checked in recently!
Here it is, 5 years from D-day and it's been a very hard day. For the life of me, I can't figure out why. I have been waiting for this day and talking about it, thinking the power would be taken out but it hasn't. My marriage is stronger than ever, my life is full of blessings beyond that one should have and yet the pain is still there. I don't dwell on it, I walk through it. I don't take my life for granted. But today I'm edgy and I'm glad the day is almost over.
I miss you guys. I hope all is well with everyone!
Hi eeyoree, of course I remember you, so glad to hear from you. I'm going to get to sleep, let g-d rest my soul and come back to catch up on how you are doing.
Ya know, skins gal doesn't live anymore. G-d healed her and put her away to be a new person. One that come to him for help, not rely on herself, one who was patient and kind to everyone she met or tried to be, not be hurtful to others, etc. Skinsgal represents selfishness, self centeredness and destruction.
I love reading about your lives and the happenings. Mazel tov on all the blessings.
What's happening. SF has FINALLY moved in the healthy direction. I didn't think it would happen, LORD knows I was patient, but I'm human. For sure last week was a week of feeling lots of feelings and taking extra precautions. My co-worker's H is having at the very least an emotional affair and as you all can imagine it brought up so much inside of me. THEN, my son got some information about H that brought us cause for concern that he might be slipping into his old ways. What I learned through that process is we never will truly know if someone is being open, honest and telling the truth. It will always be a crap shot.
We really have is a daily reprieve and I found myself resting on my laurels and not being diligent about snooping. Hubby was being the same, though there being times where we weren�t in contact longer than normal. So I confronted him, explained to him that I wasn�t the same person that he left all those years ago and he could have his freedom. I was queenie today and I could live a new life, like I had before. I meant it, because G-d was carrying me. He told me he wanted the freedom to live with me. He looked me straight in the eye and told me that really this was his fault, that he had brought the doubt into our lives and he hadn�t worked diligently enough to erase or put to rest his past actions. We ALL know he didn�t act like that last time. And then I changed the subject, but took him completely off guard and asked to see his phone.
Last time some may remember that he bought a pay as you go phone and my son was told that hubby was seen in the store buying another one. So, I really didn�t expect to see anything like that, but he told me he was talking to someone and where he had been. That I could check and he immediately turned it over without hesitation, apologized for giving me reason to ask for it and we went on with our night.
YS and I spoke about his confrontation with H and he suggested that there really is nothing we have to go on and so we just have to keep an eye out and be diligent.
Hubby was going away this past weekend for a convention, and had asked me a few times to go with him, but I couldn�t cause I was babysitting GS, but that changed immediately and of course I was going now. We ended up having the best weekend truly and very relaxed and talked about everything and anything.
I talked to him about my co-worker and there was no hesitation on his part to discuss what he was like that he remembers, what was going on in his head if he had one etc. He really did everything to put me at ease and feel safe. One of the biggest things was that SF completely stopped when he was having an A in each situation. That isn�t occurring so�..
I did check his car the next morning, but it�s way tall for me and I couldn�t get all into it. I told him I checked the car and he said please do and continue to until I feel safe and again apologized.
My co-worker is hurting. Her anger is on the surface and she has read parts of SAA. She doesn�t know if she is willing to fight for her M especially after she has done some snooping. I�m so proud of what she has done. It�s just so hard to watch.
I hope all is well with everyone. My prayers are that you are all ok and feel loved by your G-d.
What's happening. SF has FINALLY moved in the healthy direction. I didn't think it would happen, LORD knows I was patient, but I'm human. For sure last week was a week of feeling lots of feelings and taking extra precautions. My co-worker's H is having at the very least an emotional affair and as you all can imagine it brought up so much inside of me. THEN, my son got some information about H that brought us cause for concern that he might be slipping into his old ways. What I learned through that process is we never will truly know if someone is being open, honest and telling the truth. It will always be a crap shot.
Ya know, skins gal doesn't live anymore. G-d healed her and put her away to be a new person. One that come to him for help, not rely on herself, one who was patient and kind to everyone she met or tried to be, not be hurtful to others, etc. Skinsgal represents selfishness, self centeredness and destruction.
I love reading about your lives and the happenings. Mazel tov on all the blessings.
It's amazing what God can and will do, if we let Him.
We are almost 6 years to d-day! It blows my mind how different life is. We still continue to be gentle, caring, considerate and growing each day in our marriage. We are reading the book Draw Close and enjoying learning how we've changed. Just being together us so easy and calm . I owe do much to all off you here and so many others.
5 years ago yesterday I wanted to due because the WW was in complete control! Today the WW is but a memory that I pay attention to for signs and remember the lessons I learned here.
He surprised me at work with flowers for my b'day and remembered roses are a sore subject. He took me somewhere for dinner that I asked to go to! He didn't the better part if this week, not just telling me, but truly showing me in his actions how much he loves me.
If you are new reading this, please learn and do! If it worked for us it can work for you !
So, it never ceases to amaze me the wayward mind or another one bites the dust. I just talked to another co worker last night who I would almost bet is having an affair. I sent her to this website and I told her if she wanted her marriage to visit it. Hopefully she does.
I guess I don't understand why when you find yourself in this position and you know about this website or honestly others that you don't go and read and read and do. I'm lost.
And then it's so frustrating watching marriages disintegrate because they don't take action.
I am so encouraged by all your posts. I was brousing and found this on a day I when I was feeling pretty low. My WH has moved in with OW and I am on day five of Plan B no contact.
Hi Princefan, please forgive me for not seeing this. Life just took on a life and here it is almost 6 months. I have to try and do some searching to see how your situation is coming.
Hey there Pretty!!! Hugs to you. Hopefully you check in soon and give me an update on how you are doing.
I hope all is doing well. This has been a whirlwind of a few months. After months of having to plan but not knowing until July 3rd our DD got married at our house last Saturday. Our move is planned for September 1st and we are getting to go back to where we used to live only higher and a better home. Woohoo.
As soon as I can muster some alone time Z(babysitting GS while DD is on honeymoon), I want to update you all on my co-worker. If ever there was an example of what not to do, SHE IS IT!!! OMG.... but her life.
Anyways, just stopping by for a few.... Hugs to you all!!
I had lunch with Johnstwin today (love that woman!!!) and got to wondering how long it's been since I was here last. A little over 4 years. Wow. That's unbelievable. But hope all is well for the people I know.
I still am so grateful to so many of you who helped me through my darkest time.
As of today, I have been married 33 years, 12 months and 26 days. Yep, coming up on our 34 year anniversary. D-day was almost 10.5 years ago and while so much has changed, that pain, that period of darkness, and then the light of you who helped me remains so much of my journey.
I have 4 grandchildren now. Three boys and finally one grand daughter. My kids, well let's just say G-d doesn't have any grandchildren.
you know
to you, Miss Queenie!!
. Elvira sounds totally disgusting. Not sure if it makes us feel better...or worse! I once asked my friend to drive with me out to OWs state so I could see what she looks like, and she told me NO. She said that if OW was gorgeous I'd feel bad, and if she was butt ugly, I'd feel just as bad. 
Woman! 
Be Still Queenie 
No US MBers NEVER do what we are NOT supposed too. 
:gobble: 
So this morning, after having just the most awesome UA time in bed he sets off for his day, I set off for mine. 
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