Marriage Builders
Posted By: Tanam Actions v words - 05/19/11 02:45 PM
Ok so it's been 5 months since final d day and NC letter and things seem to be improving slowly slowly, but there are still so many frustrations that I am really grateful to see others are also struggling with!

WH A went in for 6 years, I knew about it after the end of the first year and was gaslighted (I see now) into understanding he needed a friend and that they could be just friends. Yes I know.....stupid. I always hated his relationship with her and never really believed but...he was considerate, loving and kind at home and apart from the times I went off at the deep end about it, things were OK ish.

Nov last year I found an email saying how much he loved her and at that point said I was going. If they were so perfect for each other.....much begging and pleading from him and I agreed to stay provided she was out of the picture totally. He was also honest and said that although only occasionally they had still been having sex last time in a public toilet in a car park......how skanky and he's 52 for heavens sake. Complete lack of respect he could at least have got a room!!! Still I guess it does show how much he thought of her.

NC letter was sent and as far as I am aware there has been no contact. Yes I exposed to everyone inc her H as she had been a close friend of mine I knew most of her friends and family.

He hasn't changed his mobile number, emails all went from work (I found the account hacked it and saw stuff that was upsetting but was also able to verify stuff he'd told me about her pressurising him and him trying to keep it as friends) there were very few from him as he doesn't really do writing.

He says he will tell me if she has contacted and besides there are ways she can contact him if she wants to. I have nothing currently to lead me to think he is in contact. Besides he really was struggling with all the pressure during the last year of the A and I am sure wanted out but she is such a drama queen that he was worried what she'd do so I think if it were to start again, I would see the impact fairly quickly.

He doesn't talk, gets upset, angry and defensive when I try and talk about my feelings, he does still justify a bit about how it was my fault it went on as long as it did and so on. He certainly won't get on board with MB but we are doing lots of UA time and we are gentle with each other and work to meet needs.

BUT

I struggle with my feelings, I get hooked into repetitive thoughts about the A and how and why that I know there are no answers for. He does love me I know and does lots of stuff to show me, but I am a woman and need words, intimate conversation is my highest EN but despite everything I don't get it.

I find the whole SF thing tough, he is a good lover and we do have good times but for me it is often physical not emotional and I miss the connection (I hate that word, he and Ginge had a 'connection" bleugh).

So I have days when all is well and days when I just want to walk. He knows if I discover they are in contact I will walk, not coming back to the place I was in over Xmas. He calls that my threat! I call it a fact.

We don't talk about the A often last time it came up was about 6 weeks ago but we also don't seem to talk much about anything either.

Just venting really, but ideas on how to get him to meet my need for intimate conversation would be gratefully received.

I look after me, I have many good things in my life, a job I love and a couple of good friends.

Sorry it's so long and thank you for reading!

Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Actions v words - 05/19/11 08:29 PM
He certainly won't get on board with MB Thats the problem! Until you get him to commit to a plan you are limping along in a pre-A state of your Marriage. No EP's are in place to help you feel protected either. You are going to have to set the rules to remain in the M with a wayward. Boundaries. It seems you agreed to continue living in the M as it was. Whats he got against MB by the way?
For a man to really fulfill your top need of conversation he will have to educate lovingly himself on how you like it. With you coaching him some. He will have to dwell in your interests and give you UA in the conversation with no distractions. But first he has to have a plan and know what you need.
Your still relying on intuition to drive your M. Kick off a plan. Look where intuitions gotten most of us. I would get him to agree to read SAA with you and discuss some principals as a limited test to see what he thinks for 30 days. If after those 30 days your M isn't better you will throw the book away and try one of his plans to make a better M. But demand something dont just forgive and forget. Its not possible and your M will never heal.
Posted By: armymama Re: Actions v words - 05/19/11 10:13 PM
Take a listen to today's radio show. On it, Dr. Harley talks about the three things required for recovery of a marriage.

1. Absolutely no contact between affair partners.
2. Total transparency - removal of the conditions that made the affair possible
3. Establishment of romantic love through meeting each other's emotional needs.

Wiggling on any of these three will not lead to recovery. How many of these are being applied in your marriage? Hils has a great suggestion. Try it the MB way for a period of time and if your H has something better then, let him suggest it.

AM
Posted By: celticvoyager Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 04:43 AM
Tanam,

Sorry you are here.

Originally Posted by Tanam
WH A went in for 6 years, I knew about it after the end of the first year and was gaslighted (I see now) into understanding he needed a friend and that they could be just friends. Yes I know.....stupid. I always hated his relationship with her and never really believed but...he was considerate, loving and kind at home and apart from the times I went off at the deep end about it, things were OK ish.

Ok, so during the 6 years he was cheating on you, things were ok (except for when you lost your temper)? You know this affair is *not* your fault, right? It was 100% his. One thing you should be aware of is that your husband was not considerate, loving or kind if he was cheating on you. In fact, he was inconsiderate, selfish, cruel, and unloving


Nov last year I found an email saying how much he loved her and at that point said I was going. If they were so perfect for each other.....much begging and pleading from him and I agreed to stay provided she was out of the picture totally. He was also honest and said that although only occasionally they had still been having sex last time in a public toilet in a car park......how skanky and he's 52 for heavens sake. Complete lack of respect he could at least have got a room!!! Still I guess it does show how much he thought of her.

NC letter was sent and as far as I am aware there has been no contact. Yes I exposed to everyone inc her H as she had been a close friend of mine I knew most of her friends and family.

He hasn't changed his mobile number, emails all went from work (I found the account hacked it and saw stuff that was upsetting but was also able to verify stuff he'd told me about her pressurising him and him trying to keep it as friends) there were very few from him as he doesn't really do writing.

If he hasn't changed his number, how do you know there's been no contact? Have you considered the possibility that they are on the down-lo? That they went underground with the A? As a former IT guy, I can tell you it is very easy to have your email changed at work, and it is not difficult to change the cell. Tanam, I'm sorry, but he still has more than a little smell of cheating to him. At the very least what he is doing to you by keeping his number and not opening everything up to you is demonstrating that he is not repentant.


He says he will tell me if she has contacted and besides there are ways she can contact him if she wants to. I have nothing currently to lead me to think he is in contact. Besides he really was struggling with all the pressure during the last year of the A and I am sure wanted out but she is such a drama queen that he was worried what she'd do so I think if it were to start again, I would see the impact fairly quickly.

He doesn't talk, gets upset, angry and defensive when I try and talk about my feelings, he does still justify a bit about how it was my fault it went on as long as it did and so on. He certainly won't get on board with MB but we are doing lots of UA time and we are gentle with each other and work to meet needs.

These are all marks of someone who quite possibly is still in contact. He is pushing the blame on you to justify a 6 year cheating spree. I wouldn't be so sure there is no contact. I would even suggest you notify a moderator to move this to the SAA forum. Really, why would he get upset at you for being hurt over him having an affair? At the very least, he is unrepentant.

cv
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 10:04 AM
Yep he is generally unrepentant although he has talked about the damage that he did to me, to her and to our marriage. He has said that he is sorry for the pain and sorry for the mess he got himself and us into. Yes I know that the A was 100% his mess, but he hasn't got there yet, he is still justifying and bringing up my faults, but that get less and most of the time we are lots better than before the A. I would just like more conversation! He has always said he loved me, and I believe him, it took me getting tough and strong to end it and make him wake up. Lets be honest he didn't need to tell me about the public toilet sex, but he felt he needed to to ensure that I knew the worst so I appreciate that.

He won't get on board with MB as he sees it as psycho babble but I have printed out a couple of the articles and he has read them tho doesn't discuss. He is in IC too and is considering doing some MC at some point.

I am as sure as I can be that he's not in contact, I am in contact occasionally with OWH and he is also clear there is no contact. She apparently is angry that I know so much and told her H everything. I just wish I had told him all when I knew initially, but then if wishes were horses.....

As to MB plans, it's possible to work them as in UA time, and we have lots of that, and it's good, we do spend all our free time together and do lots of things that are strengthening our relationship.He is open and honest and transparent in that he does not have a password on his phone, I can access it whenever and have access to bills. Can't change his work email as its his company but to be honest if she wants to get hold of him she can just ring his work... thats a public number.

I am not really concerned about the possibility of on going contact, in a lot of ways the hardest thing for me to deal with over the last 5 years was him trying to convince me it was just friends and being 'OK' with it. If he wants the ongoing pressure, with the knowledge that if I find out I go and I go messily, thats his problem.

I agree with DR H that continuing to rehash the A is damaging and so we don't do that. We are focussing on recovery and moving forwards. He is ashamed of his behaviour and wants to show that he's changed. I would love him to be on board with MB, but he's not yet although is with the plans to recover if that makes sense.

Armymamma: we have those 3 things in place and are working on it, yes its a long road, the vets say 2 -5 years, we are only at 5 months and some things are still raw. We have been together 23 years, and want to be together so we have work still to do!

Hils : how do I coach him?

Today is a good day, we are both working from home so although we are is different rooms to aid concentration, we have time for little chats, touches, kisses, cups of tea etc!

Thanks for yr comments, I do appreciate the time you have taken to reply.

Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 12:33 PM
WARNING - YOU ARE ENTERING THE CYNICAL NEVERGUESSED ZONE!

Go ahead, try to reconcile these two statements:

He won't get on board with MB as he sees it as psycho babble...He is in IC too and is considering doing some MC at some point.

Give up? Okay, my turn:

"Damn! Six years of having two women fawning over me - I sure miss that fun! Well, wifey wants me to get all emo and learn how to create a wonderful, fulfilling marriage. Yeah, RIGHT! I'll do the IC-shuffle, and make vague statements about future MC activity, but I'll just bide my time until Tanam drops her guard, and I'll hook up with another "piece" again - maybe the same one, maybe another."

I hope I'm wrong - but, like your thread-title intimates, his "words" (including those in IC?) are much grander than his "actions".
Posted By: Mrs_Recon6mo Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 12:57 PM
IC-s usually do not focus on improving your marriage, they can even cause a great deal of harm because IC only hears his lopsided lifestory and makes suggestions based on that.

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Yep he is generally unrepentant although he has talked about the damage that he did to me, to her and to our marriage.


Uhh... What about OWH and their children?

Is there any way you can call to Steve Harley? I've heard he is really good in getting reluctant WS's on board.
Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 01:23 PM
Hils : how do I coach him? Several ways to coach him on it but it takes 45-60 days to start developing a habit. (I'm in training My WWs top EN's is also IC,) I know men on this board and myself that look for topical material we may think you would be interested in. You can suggest those topics but HE has to understand. Until he does believe in psycho babble its an uphill battle. frown
Also can I ask what are his TOP 3 EN's? If SF is in 1,2 or 3 you have some work to do based on the physically being there but not emotionally , my wife said the same thing. IE Romantic Love. If he feels that non connection it will not motivate him to fill your EN's. (quite possibly the root cause of his In Fidelity...dunno) When a man says hes connected for me it means good SF,Affection and Admiration. If my wife does these well Ill gladly talk her head off. smile
If his top EN,s are also admiration you gotta throw some praise lines to him every day, Look for those things to compliment him on ETC ETC ETC. The key is understanding the EN's Importance in being met exclusively in the M with WORK. We do it naturally when we first started dating because we have motive. He also has to have motivation now through focused action's.
If you go to church a good book for him to read is Love and Respect. It takes a scripture based program not all that different than DR H's ten concepts. But backs it with Writings in the Bible. It will at least move his mind to learning.
But If he doesnt agree to learn these things with some type of recovery plan. Another A is in the wings as EN's have to be met. They are so powerful that somewhere, somehow they will be met. Even if you have to bounce from person to person to meet them. Or you plow ahead in an unloving and uncaring M like many out there do.
EP's and a Recovery Plan must be a condition to a WS. No exceptions. Then lastly it takes wanting to be happy and to make your spouse happy with the rule of Care.
If you cant get a commitment from him to do this you may have to force him with love. Make it his choice. Tell him everything you told us here and tell him you are not willing to remain in a M thats not filling your EN's or offering you protection. It a hard line to draw I can assure you.
Yep he is generally unrepentant although he has talked about the damage that he did to me, to her and to our marriageShe doesn't factor in..Flag
I agree with DR H that continuing to rehash the A is damaging and so we don't do that. After the WS agrees to SAA plan with NC and a plan of restoring RL.
Lots of your comments you make throw flags out to me. Probably the best advice you could get here is to get him to agree to MC over the phone with the Harley's and quit paying an IC. Quite often they only muddy the water. You need a specialist on Marriage Counseling after an Affair has taken place. Do you go to an eye doctor for your heart? LOL. One session and more than likely he would get on board with MB plan. AND you could both be conveniently on the call right now as UA time in the comfort of your home. Maybe a perk for him?
Before you start applying pressure on him you could do a 2-3 week marathon of meeting his top EN's Really Really well with NO LOVE BUSTERS. (Yah I know argh) Top off that LB then lovingly keep requesting Ep's and MB plan all the time asserting honestly how you feel. Sometimes you have to beat a dead horse. And Im walking your same shoes every day as im 90 days out from D day x 3 with EA's. My hard line is drawn I repeat as needed that I am not willing to live in a M that doesn't fill my EN's to make US happy and protect each other with care. I require us to live as ONE I wont take second anymore. One last thought is you could try a cattle prod. smile
Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 01:31 PM
Dint see Niitse post till I submitted. Did you notice 2 serial suggestions? I agree the Harleys are superior at making them understand a plan is needed for anything in life and a plan for a happy marriage is no exclusion.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 01:37 PM
NG: Thanks, but I think what I meant in the title was that his actions are saying more than his words. Yes I want him to say all the right stuff but he doesn't but his actions are generally on track.

The reality seems to be that he wants to 'move on' doesn't like the stuff about considering his behaviour and isn't really able yet to take full responsibility for his actions in the past.

And you are right there were times when I know he liked having 2 of us meeting his EN's but the reality of maintaining that for such a long time was beginning to take it toll on his health.

She had one child who WH thought the world of, he enjoyed his role as 'uncle' to her and and if there were contact restarting, he'd want to see her, she would talk (she's 6) and then OWH would tell me, so I think it's fairly covered.

There is always the chance I know, but he does want this to work, is committed to us, it's just he doesn't do it the way I want him too. And yes there are days when I don't know if it's worth the bother. I can do it alone, maybe it would be easier too.

I don't think he is likely to hook up with her again, she became far too much trouble, as to someone else... that's up to him, but I walk if he repeats, it's very much 3 strikes and you're out!

A call to the Harley's, might work but I will try with HNHN first, see if I can get him to look at the EN questions as a starting point.
Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 01:48 PM
Nope start him with SAA your trying to recover from an A. Introduce 2 copy's of ENQ. Yours needs to be filled out thoughtfully and given to him to read. The blank one is to test his resolve. HNHN is a good read after SAA, then move on to LB. Then for us BS's we have to live what we believe in. Actions Vs Words with boundaries firmly seated.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 01:50 PM
Hils, you make me smile......a cattle prod!! We have a whip, will that do instead!!

BTW the SF affection and admiration are indeed his top 3 and no I don't lie there and do a shopping list, its good, I just miss the times when I felt we connected.

I think I am fulfilling his needs, no LB's for ages but I worry about rocking the boat by bringing in the SAA stuff and picking off scabs I guess. Scared to bring it up in case of an AO which are real LB's for both of us.

He's a good man, he tries, he does good stuff, I just want him to talk to me about his feelings, whats happening in his head and no matter how I try to get there he is too defended.

some of the women on this board don't know how lucky they are to have emotionally literate men.
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by Tanam
Hils, you make me smile......a cattle prod!! We have a whip, will that do instead!!

BTW the SF affection and admiration are indeed his top 3 and no I don't lie there and do a shopping list, its good, I just miss the times when I felt we connected.

I think I am fulfilling his needs, no LB's for ages but I worry about rocking the boat by bringing in the SAA stuff and picking off scabs I guess. Scared to bring it up in case of an AO which are real LB's for both of us.

He's a good man, he tries, he does good stuff, I just want him to talk to me about his feelings, whats happening in his head and no matter how I try to get there he is too defended.

some of the women on this board don't know how lucky they are to have emotionally literate men.


You are defending yourself, as well. That is why you have a "missing connection." That is going to happen as a BS. Complete, fulfilling SF requires us to be emotionally vulnerable - SF in it's very essence is an act of vulnerability, even more so for a woman. Physically and metaphorically you are taking him into yourself, and you have to trust that he would not harm you in your vulnerable state.

As you refill your LB$, and rebuild the trust that he will not hurt you again, that vulnerability and intimacy will return.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 02:07 PM
Thanks HHH, I needed that!
Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 02:15 PM
Knowledge is power. He can do this from what you are saying. But if it takes opening wounds then thats what you may have to do as in your own words "they are scabbed over not HEALED." Healing takes time but it also takes all the right things to truly recover.
Rock salt in the old 20 GA, whips and maybe a stun gun. Finish waking him up hes still groggy. You Can do it lovingly but it HAS TO BE DONE!
Im not the expert but his and my EN's are identical. I lacked skills 6 years ago to meet my WW EN's. I learned but we never really healed. Then again. Now I have resolve. Both your spouse and mine have poor boundaries. We have to decide what we will and wont accept and settle for no less.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 02:57 PM
But we need scabs they are part of the healing and what happens when we keep pulling the scab off, when do I know it's time to leave the A stuff alone in that case?
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 05:43 PM
The reality seems to be that he wants to 'move on' doesn't like the stuff about considering his behaviour and isn't really able yet to take full responsibility for his actions in the past.

Your words, not mine.

How exactly did FWH skip the part about "What he broke, he must fix?"

What steps did he make to bring about changes in himself to abrogate any possibility of becoming interested in another woman? I'm not referencing e-mail passwords (another account establishable in about 30 seconds), or cell-phone records (untraceable pre-paid units are for sale in every store). I'm talking about the knowledge he will need to make your marriage better, unassailable to thoughts of wandering skirts.

And this one's for you: twoxfour

Why would you NOT have made it crystal clear that the needs and steps for recovery are solely to be determined by you? If you, for recovery purposes, need him to shave and paint bright blue his.....jewels, well, he'd better start gathering paint chips.

EVERY WS wants to "just get over this". No pain (to them), no gain (by them). It's in the epilogue of the "Cheater's Handbook".

I fear you and he are not "In Recovery", but "On Hiatus".
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 05:48 PM
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need him to shave and paint bright blue his.....jewels, well he'd better start gathering paint chips.
Oh, my. Make sure the paint is non-toxic, Tanam.

Just sayin'
Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Actions v words - 05/20/11 07:08 PM
NG is right on. I love the icon its appropriate. Hold him accountable. Allot of what your WH is saying is certainly from the WS handbook. Forgive and forget yes when compensation is made. Then you will feel safe.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/21/11 02:49 PM
I hear what you are saying, loud and clear and the reality is that to a large extent all the good stuff and all the information I want has been offered, some of it I really wish I could unknow.

We work POJA anyway, we always have, except for the obvious, we are open and honest with each other around all the practical stuff, the emotional issues clearly not enough.

A lot of the things I had been doing that made the A possible and justifiable for him, we changed a long time ago. I knew for the last 5 years what was going on, he was mainly open about his contact with her, once I knew about her, after the first year,some pretty major things changed, like we started sleeping together again, I stopped some of my less pleasant behaviours, we did more things together, we talked more. Those things still go on, it's the talking thats hard for him.

We are lots better than we were pre a and the last 5 months have been times we have both worked hard, we just don't really spell out what we do.

So really his actions speak louder than his words. His actions are good and his health is better. But I also get that he misses a friend and feels bad for her whilst also accepting the fact that she wanted to destroy our marriage. Thats got to be a hard place to be.

Today I think we need to keep on keeping on and know that things get better. I just feel sad for him.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/21/11 02:55 PM
It was more about the friendship, the sex was what she pushed for, again, I have the emails that back that up from when I hacked into their secret account. So yes I understand how that feels, she was my closest friend once and I missed her terribly once she had crossed that boundary and our friendship became impossible.

It's hard to loose a friend, even if it was a friendship that shouldn't have happened. He's been my best friend for 23 years, I know him well and how deeply he values friendship as he doesn't make friends easily, so of course I understand what a hard place he is in.
Posted By: Mrs_Recon6mo Re: Actions v words - 05/23/11 09:24 AM
My fear is that if you two keep dwelling on the "tragedy how you both lost a dear friend" you will enable the contact to reoccur and end up in false recovery. It is good that you lost this "friend"! He is obviously in withdrawal, craving on "friend's qualities" would make the process endless.

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when do I know it's time to leave the A stuff alone in that case?

When you have all the answers to your questions. Only you will know when you have all the answers.

Only you can tell what it takes from him to make you feel safe again. You have to be honest about these things and to yourself - what it takes from his part to help you? You seem to struggle with what people here call 'just compensation'. You need him to be remorseful, you need him to talk about A, you need answers - yet you choose not to communicate it to him. You are understanding about his pain, and

he is taking advantage of that.


Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/23/11 05:03 PM
Indeed it is good that this friend was lost, she is a very nasty piece of work, and no we don't dwell on the loss, we don't talk about it, we are working on building, re building things.

Yes I need him to be remorseful, I just don't think he's there yet, don't think he has any real understanding, he has said things like it was mainly phone calls with occasional meetings. He is still in a place where he is making less of it, I think he's deeply ashamed of some of it and is still blaming me for some of it too.

Yes I need compensation but mostly I think I just need time to feel safer and more secure. He does try but isn't open to talking about what I need. Yes I know he should but he isn't.

I don't know about contact, if she wants to get hold of him, she can, his company phone no is public, I don't have any evidence of contact and nothing that says he really wants contact.

I guess one of the biggest difficulties is that I don't feel much anger, throughout the abiding emotion for me has been sadness and hurt. I don't do angry and find just opening the discussion difficult as he gets frustrated and angry, it spoils things and I don't need that. I like calm and peaceful, I like the loving stuff he does, I wish he would discuss things but he does actions not words.

Some days I am fine, I understand where he is and am patient, other days less so with more what if's.

What a rollercoaster he has put me on yet I don't find it easy to challenge him ..... I know I need to, just not yet!
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/23/11 07:46 PM
OK so I have asked him if we can make some time to talk. About forwards not backwards and the things I need to make me safe. I have printed out the ENQ and will fill mine before I talk to him, I really have enough knowledge about the A although there are still things I don;t know, they don't worry me. They are past and have no impact on now. He can carry that one.

He has agreed and we are talking on Thursday evening after work, so hints and tips greatly appreciated. I will not shout or loose my temper. I may shake!!
Posted By: Mrs_Recon6mo Re: Actions v words - 05/24/11 05:53 AM
That is good. Turn your cells, TVs off, then you can talk without disruptions. I suggest you make a list of things you want to talk about and try to stick to it. Focus on how you feel and how you would like things to be, what you need for your safety and well-being.

Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Actions v words - 05/24/11 12:54 PM
Cant we just Forgive and Forget Print and use this maybe.
I have found that a shock collar is also a good training tool for a WS. wink You can buy them at petsmart. Worth every dime.

Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/24/11 07:47 PM
Lolo Hils, I think that might be a fun answer, I like the idea of a shick collar!

Yes I have already printed this out, will give him that, discuss my ENQ and give him one and ask him to fill it out and then ask for another discussion date in a week to give him time!!

See I can plan!!
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/25/11 09:56 PM
Out looking for a shock collar!

WH is horribily busy with work, bringing it home all week, very stressed, have not mentioned the agreement he had to talk tomoro night, will just go ahead with it.

Since he agreed to talk I have been quiet and gentle, not making waves and making life lovely for him, I am a little anxious about talking as previously, whenever I have brought stuff up, even being calm, it's never the right time!! Hoping that having made an appointment may make things easier.

Life is good when it's quiet, loving and respectful, really hope that this isn't a mistake to rake over old coals, even when the intention is forward, the temptation to get a few in, so to speak, is there.

Breathing in and out!!

Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/27/11 05:08 AM
Useful time spent talking and making plans, I feel as though we are on the way to being better than we have ever been, I hope he finally gets it, I think he might have.

We did the ENQ, that all went as expected, ie he hated doing it but by using it as a framework for the discussion it was very helpful. No major suprises, we are and always have been very well matched and have the same aims and goals.

I think the A can go away now. Although she can still contact him, she hasn't for 5 months and we have agreed that any contact he will tell me and we will POJA any response. That would also stop me going off the deep end too and using any contact as an opportunity to get my claws out. Not helpful!!

I think he understands the pain bit a bit better and I understand him better too.......so

Onwards and upwards!! We do love each other and want to be together, I guess thats the most important thing today.
Posted By: Mrs_Recon6mo Re: Actions v words - 05/27/11 05:44 AM
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I think the A can go away now. Although she can still contact him, she hasn't for 5 months and we have agreed that any contact he will tell me and we will POJA any response. That would also stop me going off the deep end too and using any contact as an opportunity to get my claws out. Not helpful!!

It has to be dealt seriously. How can she contact him? Why haven't to taken care of these holes? Does your H still has the same phone number, e-mail account, etc which she knows? You need to change them. It is not healthy for you to wait and see whether she will step over the line and then deal with it.

Quote
We do love each other and want to be together, I guess thats the most important thing today.

That is good, but this mantra may also lead you to false recovery, because you may use it to become excusing and overlooking things and he may use it to become lazy.

The most important thing is your PLAN how you will protect each other and take care of each other (read this). When there has been an affair, there are certain steps you need to take:
a) take care of those loopholes through which OW can have contact with him and reassuring NC for LIFE.
b) setting up extraordinary precautions (read this, I bumped it up for you) how to avoid another affair happen in the future and agreeing on boundaries in marriage ("Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend)
c) avoid LBs and meet each others ENs.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 05/27/11 06:03 PM
She can still contact him as his work number is public, nothing we can do about that but we have agreed that should she contact then we will POJA any response, should she get through to him he will simply end the call and remind her that she has been told not to contact. No I know it's not ideal but can't change the business number and it's a small business.Same with the work email it's on the website, needs to be for clients.

He does still care for her, it was a LTA but he sees the damage it did to all concerned, and does not want to risk what we have. He never stopped loving me, I believe that, she wanted different things and he's a man.....offered a s**g on a plate.....it was hard to resist and then he would beat himself up but was unable to end it, he regrets that. (A step on the road to remorse!!)

We are avoiding LBs (hence setting up a time to talk and making it time limited and structured so that it didn't have the chance to deteriorate into a row) and when we looked at the EN's we have the same ones and are getting them met in ways we like. Yes there are bits to tweak but we are a work in progress.

He is a very isolated man, he isn't very sociable and I guess there are potential risks but the EP's are in place and I don't bring friends home any more which was how he met Ginge! There will always be opportunities of course but he is very clear how close I came to walking and that any repeat and I shall walk in order to protect myself. It's not what I want and it's certainly not what he wants.

I don't see either of us getting complacent or failing to see each others needs at the moment. I still wish he was more talkative, I am still healing and have a way to go yet but it feels OK today.

Thanks for your comments, it will be a cold day in hell before I let my guard down around him though!!




Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 06/08/11 02:18 PM
Update:

Things seem to be going well, I still struggle with the SF, am willing and an active participant but the emotional connection still missing for me. I don't really know how to get through it but keep on keeping on. Keeping my eyes open seems to help, stops the movies playing so that has to be good!!

He doesn't talk about how he is feeling, just seems to be getting on with things. We spend lots of time together generally tho currently he is swamped with work so that makes it difficult but we both took a day off last week and went shopping for nice things for the house, had lunch, enjoyed the sunshine and each others company. In the evening we cooked together and watched a film. I think we are probably getting more than the 15-20 UA hours and enjoy being together.

Ginge is most days just a nagging ache at the back of my head, if I mention her I always now refer to her as D's wife, he finds that quite amusing but I think sees why. NC seems to still be in place and he has said that he is relieved she seems to have gone.

I am still in occasional contact with Ginge's H, he still hasn't returned home and is not sure what he wants to do but they have a little girl so he may. She seems to be making efforts to make it work........who knows ........or even cares how miserable she is!!

I have learned so much here, realised how many mistakes I made that enabled it to continue for sooooo long. For that tho I thank you all and while I don't always agree with the attitudes, the effects of following a plan are beginning to pay off.

I do know tho that however good it gets here, the second I know he is back in contact I walk, not a threat, a fact. He knows this. The resolve is good and makes me feel better.

Today is a good day, even tho he is away for 3 nights this week, I miss him, but also like having the house to myself! He goes away about once every 2 years so it's not a problem.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 06/18/11 11:01 AM
This week I have been mainly working on letting go.

I have spent lots of time wishing all sorts of evil on Ginge, planning and plotting what I would do etc and at times it has been quite entertaining and diverting. However there is a very real possibility that I may come across her professionally and I do wonder what I would do in that situation.

I am a trainer for Child Protection, some of my courses are mandatory and she will at some point have to attend as she works for the same Local Authority. Its a huge geographical area so I haven't seem her in years, but it's a possibility.

Assuming that she and WH are not in contact, and I have no reason to believe they are currently, (but nothing would preclude a secret email addy used from work computer which I have no access to or indeed a pay as you go phone kept at work)she wouldn't know which courses I was running and where in the county to avoid me, and I think she wants to avoid me, at least if she has half a brain she does anyway.

WH is still not talking much, we don't mention the A, like I said I don't have all the details, but i have enough, he is kind, considerate and gentle, he seeks out opportunities to do nice things, hence actions v words, and although not on board with MB, as such, in that he isn't interested in reading stuff, radio etc he is fine with the principals and spending UA time together.

I love him, I can't imagine my life without him and I have a nice life with him, but I am not in love with him.

I feel as though I am still very much protecting myself and am ready to leave if/when I find out he is back in contact.

I wish that bit was different.

I wish I didn't have to be ready to go and be OK if he's stupid enough to be back in contact.

I wish I could relax a bit!

Thanks if anyone reads this, just needed a bit of a ramble!
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 06/19/11 12:30 PM
Oh b*****r I gone and done a LB

Out for a drive, pass where his counsellor is, stop to show me an Art gallery he's noticed.....can't help myself, ask about his IC and off we went.......

Not angry just ended up talking about the A, ginge, he got all upset and defensive, feels got at, still NC and that worries him as she might not be all right.....blah blah blah, like I care, but instead of keeping it down, I said it, out loud.

Is there a quicker way to shut him up, make him cry, be out of sorts for the rest of the day. He is still in poor me mode 6 months in, at least when I trigger him. Oh b*****r. And then I said some days it all just feels too hard and that I want to walk, to which he replied why don't you then?

It wasn't quite the response I was hoping for!

And I have a filthy cold and so have no wish for SF!!

We have talked more and I tried to explain how shut out I feel from whats going on and how I try not to let the bitterness out when he does let me in a bit. We had a hug and a kiss.

Might be a good time to try MC, at least there would be a safe forum to explore things.

Anyone in the UK know of any in the NW!!
Posted By: WW27 Re: Actions v words - 06/19/11 02:10 PM
Why don't you and your husband try counseling with the Harley's? ALthough it is over the phone, Steve is extremely helpful and worth every $.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 06/19/11 03:10 PM
There is no way that WH would use counselling over the phone, and without wishing to insult anyone, not with an american (don't ask, it's complicated!!) and to be honest I am OK most of the time and generally find a good place in my head that allows for all the other stuff that is good to happen.

I think his real problem is that in his head, this wasn't an affair, he was trying to be a friend, it lasted 6 years, and he never wanted her as more that a friend, she wanted more and so they were in a very dysfunctional situation. As she was his friend, he wants to continue to help her but understands that any contact from him to her would give her the wrong message (and I would go as it wouldn't be long before we were back where we were in September!). I know my H and do understand him, even though he had crap boundaries, he was genuine in what he wanted. And it wasn't the odd sweaty session. Although they happened, she led that side (I know I saw the emails)and he was too weak to say no. Something about boundaries i think!!

He has stopped blaming me for it all now which is progress, he is now blaming her more, soon he might take a look at himself.

Patience taker, patience

Posted By: WW27 Re: Actions v words - 06/19/11 03:29 PM
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html

I do not have any suggestions then for a MC. But read this article to make sure you find one that can help you and your marriage.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 06/24/11 05:35 PM
Oh I don't know if this should be here or on the rants thread.

It is OW child's birthday in the next couple of days. This child was a major part of his relationship with Ginge and he did adore the kid (Ginge kid, goofy, not attractive but there you go....).

He said last night he wanted to send the child a birthday card/gift.

I was proud of not AOing, just said it wasn't possible.....but for f'sake. when will the stupid stupid man ever understand NC for life means NC for life, with the brat as well as with the b***H.

ahhhhhhhh

Then cos I had a cold, feeling rough and very tired after work, he makes a cup of tea and cuddles me.I know he is trying (very trying) but sometimes it's hard to work out what goes on in that addled head.

sometimes the anger I have just begs to be let loose. Maybe I am hitting the 6 month anger thing but it does make me wanna scream.

when will the idiot ever get it. It's over with ginge, if thats not what he wants then it's over with me.

I think thats simple. Why does he need to struggle

OK rant over!
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/04/11 10:05 PM
mmmm not updated for a while, things ticking along I think, no drama or upheaval.

Found myself in an odd place where I really was feeling like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and that I have to be ready and OK to simply go if he picks up contact with ginge again. So I felt as though I was simply marking time, enjoying all the good stuff but with no real expectation that it would last.

Been sitting with that for a couple of weeks now. Bit like him screwing up is inevitable cos he is such a KISA and she is such a DID.

Then a good friend pointed out that she is also a Princess, her KISA told his wife that he S*****g her in a public toilet in broad daylight. Said wife then told Ginge's H.

Therefore he has told the dirtiest secret, I told her H, she is in all likelihood terrified about who else I told but knows could will make that very public knowledge. She is so aware of her image as a yummy mummy.

She is frightened but also appalled he could betray her in that way. Knows that he will tell if she contacts.

Poor silly b***H

She lost everything when the Karma bus hit town.

He is trying so hard in his own stubborn and simple way, he is still a plonker, but he's my plonker!!
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/06/11 06:48 PM
Still a bit stuck with the feelings of this all being temporary, that sooner or later he will tell me he is back in contact, or I will find out.

And have to leave.

And I don't want to but equally can not and will not go back to 3 in my marriage.

And what's happening at home is good.

It's a very sad place to be, because also when I lift my head up and look around, it's all wonderful. Good friends with each other, good SF, good RC, lots of affection. nothing to grumble about........

and still the feeling of temporariness stays.

Ideas........... suggestions...........kick up the A**s???
Posted By: pokerface Re: Actions v words - 07/07/11 02:01 PM
Tanam,

Thanks for your post over on AEK1's thread. I have been reading your thread but have not responded because I don't have any answers to your questions ...except give it time. And I imagine that people get pretty sick of hearing me say that.

I love your words "he is still a plonker but he is my plonker"
...yup that is my DH. He is really trying to do the right thing but sometimes he says things that make me wonder if he will ever "completely" get it.

Keep posting on your thread - I am reading (even if not responding) and I relate to all of what you say.

Cheers. ( I lived in the UK for many years but have since moved back to the mother country USA)
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/07/11 03:25 PM
Oh that is good to hear, I sometimes wonder if I am so off beam thats why there are no responses!!

Yeah, WH (he still hasn't earned the F) still doesn't get it, won't look at MB stuff cos it's all just internet twaddle, but does follow it so long as I don't use the MB words, he still has his pity parties when he misses the vile Ginge although yes yes sees she is poison to our marriage.

He has finally agreed that he will consider changing his phone no, I don't even mention it now as I know his responses, but by not mentioning it, he now thinks he probably will change it.

It's not that big a deal, he has his own company, if she wanted to she can call work, it's a public number and he can hardly change that!!

He has agreed he will tell me if she contacts and we will decide what to do. After dday 30064, (no not really) he sent every text she sent to me and I responded, that really p***d her off, so I think he will.

I want him to loathe her like I do. I guess thats a way off yet.

Just this horrid feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop. he says he will never leave me.......mmmmmm he said that for the last 5 years and I believe him. But that doesn't mean the same as I will never hurt you like this again, well not to me anyway.

Thanks for reading

Perhaps I should change my sig line to he's still a a plonker, but he's my plonker!
Posted By: nesre Re: Actions v words - 07/08/11 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by Tanam
Oh that is good to hear, I sometimes wonder if I am so off beam thats why there are no responses!!

Hey Tanam

SHHH-Don't tell anybody I am here. Not sure If I am allowed to be over here! You were looking for somone to give you a kick in the rear...so here I am.



Does this mean he is only half heartingly appeasing you? Is this what you mean?

Yeah, WH (he still hasn't earned the F) still doesn't get it, won't look at MB stuff cos it's all just internet twaddle, but does follow it so long as I don't use the MB words,

Can you describe these? What besides the obvious sex he got from her does he miss about the OW?

he still has his pity parties when he misses the vile Ginge although yes yes sees she is poison to our marriage.


He has finally agreed that he will consider changing his phone no, I don't even mention it now as I know his responses, but by not mentioning it, he now thinks he probably will change it.

This is his personal cell is the one he is going to change I take it. Good idea. Have read on here many times after a long quiet stretch contact was made out of the blue. This would be easy if he has the same cell number. Too bad the work number couldn't disapear.

It's not that big a deal, he has his own company, if she wanted to she can call work, it's a public number and he can hardly change that!!

He has agreed he will tell me if she contacts and we will decide what to do. After dday 30064, (no not really) he sent every text she sent to me and I responded, that really p***d her off, so I think he will.


Quote
I want him to loathe her like I do. I guess thats a way off yet.




Your WH like my WW had cake for a long time. When I was WH I liked cake to. There is a certain rush about having your needs met by 2. Its the good old brain chemicals that tell us we likey this. Its the whole sheeebang. The planning, the almost got caught shared stories, how "good" your story was to get away and out of the house or why you were late. Sneaking lying and deception becomes an addictive type of game except that it can/does become your life and then you are hooked. You promise yourself no more-but-once again opportunity presents itself and your off and running.

Not quite sure how you get WH to see this. I believe this is why Dr. H tells us to become the best person we can be in Plan A. Become an expert at meeting our spouses EN's especially their top 3.

Plan A Is not meant for the BS as a way of life. At some point your WH needs to some of the heavy lifting in the M. Has WH done any of the heavy lifting?

The MB "Plans" have recommended time limits with them. Generally womans Plan A is way shorter than mens. I believe under one month is recommended. Then to Plan B. You have been from what I am reading in Plan A for quite some time now. I will see if I can find what is recommended and the reasoning behind this.


Not sure trying to get WH to feel like you do about Ginge at this point is a high priority. It sounds like you two have a lot of UA / RC and SF time working for you right now. Time may help hime to see how poisonous she was to your M.

Attempts by you to force the issue may appear to be viewed by him as spiteful and revengeful. Not good qualities for anyone.




Quote
Just this horrid feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop. he says he will never leave me.......mmmmmm he said that for the last 5 years and I believe him. But that doesn't mean the same as I will never hurt you like this again, well not to me anyway.


A question for you to ponder-Does this rob you of enjoying the moment/present when you are with WH?

If WH does the status quoe and Tanam stays with him what is the motivation for him to do anything different?


Thanks for reading

Perhaps I should change my sig line to he's still a a plonker, but he's my plonker!

If you don't I am going to steal it!!

Please don't take offense to the qustions/comments. I only mean for you to question yourself and get stronger. Question your motives and behavior to help strengthen your M. Yea-Like I should be the one to talk. Gotta get outta here b4 someone sees me. See you on the other side. nESRE
Posted By: nesre Re: Actions v words - 07/09/11 05:36 AM
Chapter 13 SAA

But most affairs end the wrong way -- they die a natural death. Instead of taking control of the situation, and making a decision to end it, most unfaithful spouses continue in the relationship as long as possible. Affairs, however, don't usually last very long. I estimate that 95% of them don't last two years. Those few who eventually marry are extremely fragile -- much more likely to divorce than the average couple. So if an affair doesn't end the right way, it will almost always end, even if it's the wrong way.

If your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way, I know of a way to help speed up its demise: Expose it. Your own family should know: Your parents, your siblings, and even your children. The family of your spouses lover should also know, especially the lover's spouse. The pastor of your church should be informed as well. Exposure of an affair is like opening a moldy closet to the light of day. Affairs do well when they're conducted in secret, but when they're in full view for all to see, they appear as they are -- incredibly foolish and thoughtless.

Even if exposure were to be ineffective in ending an affair, I'd recommend it anyway. The betrayed spouse needs as much support as possible, and exposure helps friends and relatives understand what's going on. Keeping an affair secret is no real help to anyone. But I've been amazed at how well it dismantles the illusion that affairs rest upon. Instead of assuming that the relationship is made in heaven, an unfaithful spouse quickly senses that it's a one-way ticket to hell on earth.

The first reaction of an unfaithful spouse to exposure is to try to turn the tables on the betrayed spouse. "I will never be able to forgive you for hurting me this way. Don't you ever think about how I'd be affected by this?" Of course, it's really the affair that hurts. The exposure simply identifies the source of the pain. The unfaithful spouse should be the one begging for forgiveness.

In spite of the suffering that an affair inflicts on a betrayed spouse, during this period of exposure he or she should try to make as many Love Bank deposits and as few withdrawals as possible. If you argue about the affair, you'll damage recovery. Insist on the unfaithful spouses complete separation from the lover (no contact for life), but don't fight about it. I call this strategy to end the affair Plan A.

If exposure itself doesn't end the affair immediately, my advice regarding what to do next is usually different for husbands and wives. I encourage husbands to try to stick to avoiding arguments and meeting their unfaithful wives' basic needs (Plan A) as long as possible (six months to a year). But I usually encourage wives to separate after about three weeks if their husband is still in contact with his lover. My experience has taught me that the health of most women deteriorates quickly and significantly while living with an unfaithful husband. Men, on the other hand, tend to be able to weather the storm longer with fewer emotional or physical effects. I call the strategy of complete separation Plan B.

Tanam

I know you have said in past posts Your relatively sure the A is dead. I get the feeling though your Plan A is still ongoing to some degree with you doing all the heavy lifting. The A did not really end correctly did it? Exposure in Plan A within a short time span. Seems like your giver has been working for a long time and still is. Longer than Dr.H recommends? I don't know what is recommended if this is the case. If I am reading wrong please correct me.

I've got a hat with a big letter F on it and sometimes I take it off to think wayward again. Don't like to do that for reasons you will see later.

Maybe I am wrong here.

Your WH thinks well Tanam didn't leave me when she knew i was having an A.

Hmmmph-Five years of knowing and Tanam didn't leave.
Now Tanam wants me to do all this physcobabble crap. I'll appease her just a little bit so we can get back to the status quoe.

This will blow over in a short time. Tanam hasn't left yet.

Yea I can treat her nice and behave. Tanam has treated me very nice as of late.

When we get to anything close to "dealing" with Just Good Friend I'll throw out a small promise of something she has been mentioning like Oh Yea I can change my cell number. (You brought that up to WH in Jan)

I (WH) won't rock her boat and all this will blow over
in a short tme.

Can't figure out after all this time why she is now upset that I had sex with someone other than her. Didn't seem to care before.

I'll just keep a low profile and eventually Tanam will cool down and be her "old self" again.

God I hope I don't have to go to a real MC and "deal" with this. It make ME feel so uneasy talking about feelings and having to make promises for change.

Did you notice the common theme?


It's all about WH and how HE feels about what HE may have to go through for something HE did not see as wrong. HE might have to actually do something substanstial


When is up to you.






Excuse me. I have to go take a shower using a wire brush and lye soap so I make sure to get all the wayward off me again. Thats why I don't take the hat off often!

nESRE
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/09/11 10:32 AM
Thanks nESRE for your very considered responses.

1. Half hearted, no I don't think so, but very much in 'lets just get over it' mode rather than 'what can I do?' mode.
His is a doer not a talker and his actions are not in the slightest half hearted in that he's more present, interested in things that we do together things like that but feels that if we just get on with it we will be better than if we have to re hash all the old stuff.

Yeah I know that means he doesn't actually have to take responsibility for his action or accountability. But you can lead a horse to water...........

2. What did he get from Ginge?

It was always more EA than PA for him, he loved the attention, the opportunity to KISA as she was such a drama queen. She was a real friend and the first year of their affair before I knew was a brilliant summer when the 3 of us were so close. I just didn't know they were in another relationship too!!

So once I knew and was persuaded that they could just be friends, I hated it but enabled.

She began to be nastier and nastier towards me, and he always defended her making me feel like I was making a fuss about nothing.

So I worked on myself. Worked to improve the relationship, we started sleeping together, SF got lots better, life was good but for the elephant in the room, who occasionally got loose. I would kick off, yell and scream, cry and beg, demand and make threats. But every time I was convinced.

In retrospect I think he wanted always to recreate the summer we had. That was the high he was seeking, real cake eating. Not cake eating flavoured with guilt and anxiety.

Over the years she had become more demanding, he wasn't really wanting SF with her although obviously he did occasionally, but she wanted him to move in with her. He was always in love with me and had no wish to live with her, her daughter, her family and friends. He likes a quiet life!! We have almost always had a good sex life, and have always been good friends. He is the other half of my jigsaw and I am his. he just loved her too, but as a friend, he really didn't want or like all the drama!! Not after the first year.

He was under lots of pressure from all sides, he was in a mess, panic attacks and not sleeping, or sleeping all weekend.

So I ended it. I told him I was going. He was devastated and begged me to stay. After a week I agreed but she was to be gone.

NC letter written and I sent it.

I found MB!!

3.Phone, always been a kind of issue. But she has his work email, that can't be changed and if it was would still have to be public. She knows the company number. Yes ideally but it's less of an issue.

He is clear that there are no more chances. I will be fine on my own. He needs me, not the other way round.

4. Mostly I don't mention her, quickest way for her to die. I know as much as I need to know in terms of details, and more. The hurt is the betrayals by her. How I could not see what was going on, that she got closer and closer to me that summer and I don't know how she could look me in the eye.

That hurts.

So in terms of where we go. It's very much in his hands. If he wants the life we have, nice house, good income, peace, a good life with lots of fun. If he changes his mind, I will be sad, will miss him, but will be fine.

And it's that bit I don't like, that that makes it feel a bit temporary. I don't trust him not to make the mistake, cos I know he can't do it without there being an 'us'.

Sorry this is so long. but I like the way you make me analyse it for myself.

See you on the other side!

Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/09/11 10:53 AM
Can't figure out after all this time why she is now upset that I had sex with someone other than her. Didn't seem to care before.

I'll just keep a low profile and eventually Tanam will cool down and be her "old self" again.

God I hope I don't have to go to a real MC and "deal" with this. It make ME feel so uneasy talking about feelings and having to make promises for change.

Did you notice the common theme?


It's all about WH and how HE feels about what HE may have to go through for something HE did not see as wrong. HE might have to actually do something substanstial


When is up to you.


Oh That was brilliant!! Yes it is all about him.

If I do bring it up, just talking not AO ing he still gets all defensive and 'oh look what you have done, you've gone and got me all churned up again and it will take me days to get over it now'

Yep blame shifting.

And yes, Tanam was very bothered that he had sex with someone else, she kicked off royally and the HB lasted months, 18 or so!! Sex with Ginge wasn't great, ours is!! since DDay 1 it has been brilliant, before that it wasn't so good......maybe cos he was getting it elsewhere and I was having difficulties with work and was very stressed at the time.

He is in IC which is doing him good though he will not discuss any of the issues that he is discussing, but thats fine IC is supposed to be confidential. I am also a counsellor and have my own IC.

It's my job in our relationship to keep the peace and when I do the carrot is that we are great together.

So in many ways by doing as he says, move on, sweep it under the carpet, leave it alone, we have the relationship we both want. It's warm, loving, fun, happy.

No one would imagine the turmoil I get sometimes as the rollercoaster lurches down a section without warning.

There may come a time when we can to MC but it will not be through here or the Harleys explicitly. But we use the principals of POJA and POProtection as much as possible.

Life is full with full time work, a spiritual life that involves Reiki healing, family, friends, horses, cats, supporting a theatre group, shopping, so much good stuff and this wound that isn't healing as fast as I want it to........

and I'm not sure what else he or I can do to make it better.

Again sorry it's so long
Posted By: nesre Re: Actions v words - 07/09/11 04:04 PM
Quote
So I ended it. I told him I was going. He was devastated and begged me to stay. After a week I agreed but she was to be gone.

NC letter written and I sent it.


Tanam,

Did you write this letter? Was WH on board with this at all at the time?

Trust me Tanam your responses are helping me.

The common theme here we have is our mates had LTA's and blame shift big time. Appears You and I wont accept that any more. We see it for the BS (not betrayed spouse!) it is. Not that our situationss are the same. The behavior we recieve(d) is the same in ways.

Tanam's WH=Just Good Friend

nESRE's WW=We are just drinking buddies. When I am sober I don't see Baldo. WOW that was always reassuring--->NOT

Our mates just want to forgive and forget and move on.

We found MB's after WE made lots of mistakes in our marriages with our mates. I had many Lovebusters when I arrived at the door here I had to resolve.


Tanam I will be blunt here with what I see

. We came to this board in the middle of a long term mess with trying to implement what our "Best thinking" or intuition. advice from others, or knowledge told us to do.

Dr.H is clear there is a narrow path to recovery of the M and any deviation from the MB's plan may not give us the desred results Examples-NO Restration of love/just compensation/extrtodinary precautions. The MB;s plans when followed correctly have this in place for protecting or rebuilding an A proof M. We need these in the M to be safe. My WW doesn't want anything to do with any plan of any type. How do you deal with that? I would never and did not feel safe in the M.

UMMM you eventually don't. Hence my situation and the direction I chose to take..

IMHO the key word to the above paragraph is "Recovery". Recovery = M Affair proofed by the steps through the Good DR's plans.

I knew in my situation that the plans for any type of MR would have a snowballs chance in H of being implemented unless she quit drinking. That was the underlying problem with the M. I was a willing participant in WW's abuse to me by sitting on the plans and not acting on them with the speed required. I got caught up in the drinking binges and sidtracked.

MY boudaries were weak. How are yours doing?

I failed at following the plan as outlined. Had i been able to keep an airtight Plan B maybe the result would have been different.....Hence the results I got and moving to PR instead of MR.

I'm happy your M is better than pre A. It sounds like you 2 do have a lot of good things going in your life. Living by MB principles will and appears to have had a ripple affect on your WH. Dr. H's plans are not to have ripple affect.

Not sure IMO you will get to the point where you truely feel M is A proofed unless he climbs on board whole heartingly. WH is really in no position just to sit there with little effort. You are as the BS. WH needs to meet the EP's and JC to show the M is A proofed. With you doing all the heavy lifting all the way through WH gets the rewards of your M without really doing anymore than what is required to stay with you in your M.

nESRE
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/10/11 01:11 PM
Thanks nESRE

I really appreciate the time you have taken.

OK NC letter, sent before I got here but during the nightmare 2 weeks, he said that he had always agreed with Ginge that the only way they would finally end it was with an email.

So I wrote the basis of the letter, he edited it, I approved it and I emailed to all her accounts including her work one.

The letter wasn't quite MB but in retrospect it wasn't far off. It didn't acknowledge his selfishness to me, rather to her in that they couldn't be what the other wanted, ie he wanted a friend she wanted my life. But it did say that he wished he had ended it years ago.

Anyway following that all contact she tried to make he sent to me and I responded which seriously ticked her off. Everything at that point was very O&H.

Oh yes I see the similarities in our situations, but also the differences.

I think though that we both had 2 separate things to deal with instead of just the A, I had the fact I was s**T on by 2 people who I thought cared about me, you had the alcohol.

Double Whammy on both counts!!

The MB;s plans when followed correctly have this in place for protecting or rebuilding an A proof M. We need these in the M to be safe. My WW doesn't want anything to do with any plan of any type. How do you deal with that? I would never and did not feel safe in the M.

I have been thinking about the stuff needed to make me feel safe and to be honest I really don't see what else he could do. A lot of them are just my own fears and some are rational and others not.

The phone thing.....maybe but like I said he's got public details.

Mainly I need to be able to trust that he realises the damage it did and he has said this, and will, as he has promised, tell me if she gets through and together we decide what to do.

I can't police him, and really have no wish to, and I also take into account the fact that the last 2 years or so of his relationship with her was making him ill with stress. Too much pressure for him from all sides. He's better now generally so I think I would notice any change.

Boundaries......mine are rock solid, any contact initiated by him and I start a whole new exciting life, possibly in India!!

I'm happy your M is better than pre A. It sounds like you 2 do have a lot of good things going in your life. Living by MB principles will and appears to have had a ripple affect on your WH. Dr. H's plans are not to have ripple affect.

No they are not, but also I have learned that I can only change myself.

I am not sure what else could make it better, a new A?? no I don't see that for him, starting up this one again......his choice.

The ripple effect is good, my behaviour is changing and that in turn is changing his.


Just MHO

You see while I really like MB and many of it's tennants, support and this site, I see this as CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) which is brilliant, is what AA and AlAnon are also about, ie change the thinking patterns and change the behaviour. I know thats simplistic but.....
and it has great results with addicts, hence why it works with affairs as well as with drink and drugs.

I have always worked in my practice and my life on understanding the Why of behaviour. And in my case as there was no addiction to her left, it was his sense of responsibility and good guy that stopped him ending it because of the drama that she would cause, I feel that bashing away with CBT isn't the best way for us at the moment.

He needs to feel safe with me too, as much as I need to feel safe. He needs to see that I can meet his needs and he can meet mine given the chance, and I don't see MB counselling or steps to follow being something he would do.

I also don't see what MC would offer for now as he is still in that defense mode and needs to stop doing me me me!!

In terms of doing more I don't think he can or there is much more he could do, given he finds talking about emotions hard.

It is so useful to get a boy point of view on the WH issue, I loved your post when you put the hat on!!

Your WW clearly will not be able to get her life back on track in any way while she is still drinking, it's hardly rocket science and it seems that your boundaries were pretty strong much of the time. Now it's up to her.

Is the door open to her in any way if she cleans up her side of the fence??

Blessings
Posted By: nesre Re: Actions v words - 07/10/11 05:34 PM
Tanam

Quote
In retrospect I think he BD wanted always to recreate the summer life we had + OM once in a while . That was the high he BD was/is? seeking, real cake eating. Not cake eating flavoured with guilt and anxiety.


Bingo. The guilt and anxiety were an unwanted bi-product of the A.

Thanks

nESRE
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/10/11 05:49 PM
yep, I don't believe for a second he ever wanted me to hurt but I think he was trying to recreate the summer when the 3 of us were close.

That was the summer when he was enjoying cake, following me knowing, it was stale cake but the addiction meant he was always seeking that high again.

Me kicking off and hurting were also unwanted by products of the affair.

And he got stuck in a deep and dark place where no one was happy.

As for your own BD, yes I think she probably was trying to recreate the life you had, but you really can't do that when you are off your face on booze and OM.

Glad I could be of some help to you, you are helpin me plenty!!
Posted By: nesre Re: Actions v words - 07/10/11 06:01 PM
Quote
Double Whammy on both counts!!


No doubt different but still double whammy.



Quote
I can't police him, and really have no wish to, and I also take into account the fact that the last 2 years or so of his relationship with her was making him ill with stress. Too much pressure for him from all sides. He's better now generally so I think I would notice any change.


If he had stress and anxtiety at the end before this would come back fast should contact start unknown to you. It would hit him hard and fast.


Quote
Boundaries......mine are rock solid, any contact initiated by him and I start a whole new exciting life, possibly in India!!



Good for you.


Quote
It is so useful to get a boy point of view on the WH issue, I loved your post when you put the hat on!!


I don't do that often. Only found the wire brush and lye soap in the shower begins to take off the waywardness!


Quote
Is the door open to her in any way if she cleans up her side of the fence??


Sobriety first. WW would have to make life about alcohol recovery and live it for me to consider at this point even being friends. I will do what i can to stay in Plan B for a while so I find life other than what it used to be. Tried to get the Order for protection in place because that would have stood for 2 years with me having the control of her being in my life or not.

Since the decision probably empowered her I can be civil when she completes treatment now. Have the house for sale. When it sells I will move to my on apt/house? not sure and then I can continue Plan B if I chose to. As it is right now I would have to take her to family court w/lawyer and big $$ to keep her out of the house.

I call her BD because she just bull dozes in and has had no respect for boundries in the past. I don't see that changing. Very entitled mentality. Letsd see-I pay her support + child support and she lives here and DD lives here + nESRE pays all the bills. Only way to get away from the connection is to sell and me move.

The M is gone so we would have to start out over and I would be gaurded until I see WW's actions.


I like your sig.

nESRE
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/15/11 12:23 PM
Update:

Life is good.

We are both continuing to be gentle with each other and aware of each others feelings, perhaps me more than him, but I have over the last 2 weeks seen a real change.

Maybe he is finally coming out of the fog, maybe he is finally realising just how close he came to loosing me.

Maybe I am just in a stronger place and more able to look at him rather than my own hurt. I don't know but somehow, his hugs feel more real, his kisses more aware. He sends thoughtful and praising texts occasionally and I am learning to tell him how much I love those, rather than demand them.

Things are also very busy with a houseful of young adults who are performing in our local festival, their energy is very beneficial to both of us. We are both busy with work, but both have jobs we enjoy and certainly mine fills my needs for admiration, his I think for approval.

so the rollercoaster is on a quiet stretch for now. Thats good and I'm enjoying it. There may well be more twists and turns, but the peaceful stretches give me strength for the ups and downs.

I did have to work in the office next door to Ginge yesteday. It's a 2 hour drive away so only an occasional issue. I did get myself in a bit of a twist driving there and wondering if I would see her. I didn't and am glad cos the temptation to say something would have been huge and very damaging to me and WH as it may have given her the excuse to call him.

so disaster averted!!

Onwards and upwards!
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Actions v words - 07/15/11 02:57 PM
Good job Tanam,

staying in control of the plan is the best plan of attack.......
just concentrate on the relationship you have with your husband and nothing else....it is the only thought that matters....and the only action that matters......
stay on track, glad to hear all is well and progressing nicely........
jessi
Posted By: nesre Re: Actions v words - 07/16/11 05:02 AM
Originally Posted by Tanam
Update:

Life is good.

We are both continuing to be gentle with each other and aware of each others feelings, perhaps me more than him, but I have over the last 2 weeks seen a real change.

Maybe he is finally coming out of the fog, maybe he is finally realising just how close he came to loosing me.

Maybe I am just in a stronger place and more able to look at him rather than my own hurt. I don't know but somehow, his hugs feel more real, his kisses more aware. He sends thoughtful and praising texts occasionally and I am learning to tell him how much I love those, rather than demand them.

Things are also very busy with a houseful of young adults who are performing in our local festival, their energy is very beneficial to both of us. We are both busy with work, but both have jobs we enjoy and certainly mine fills my needs for admiration, his I think for approval.

so the rollercoaster is on a quiet stretch for now. Thats good and I'm enjoying it. There may well be more twists and turns, but the peaceful stretches give me strength for the ups and downs.

I did have to work in the office next door to Ginge puke puke

Hope you took a double shower when you got home after being that close!


yesteday. It's a 2 hour drive away so only an occasional issue. I did get myself in a bit of a twist driving there and wondering if I would see her. I didn't and am glad cos the temptation to say something would have been huge and very damaging to me and WH as it may have given her the excuse to call him.

so disaster averted!!

Onwards and upwards!

Just wanted to pop by and see how you are. Looks like you two may be getting to a good place with R.

Makes me smile to hear that the coaster is on a steady ride at the moment. Hope it stays that way with smooth ups and downs!


Totally overloaded with life this week so haven't been on much.

nESRE
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/18/11 09:21 PM
Jess and nESRE

Thank you both so much for your words of encouragement. It does help when someone take the time to comment, keeps me on track!!

It's surprising how much easier it's getting, he still doesn't really know about MB, it's not worth the conversation but he's still on board with us getting better and the more I meet his needs, the more he meets mine, so I want to meet his ...........and so on. We haven't spent as much time together this last week, or at least not alone and we have both said we missed it, although we have had a great time with the local festival and a house full of young adults!

I still think about stuff, mainly about how insane the fogbabble was and how I bought it for so long, but it somehow seems more ....at a remove, I don't have the same feelings associated with it. Maybe I am healing a bit more all the time.

I also notice that I dont wake up thinking about it all any more.....thats odd too! It's been so much a part of me for so long...........

Yes nESRE I did feel horrid just knowing I was parking in the same car park, even though I didn't see her car, and working in the next office building was way way too close.

Still with a bit of a wiggle I won't have to train there for a good while, my boss knows and is understanding!

How are things with you? Update??

There seem to be a lot of people over there who are dealing with the same LTA thoughts feelings and issues ..... I learn a lot form your posts, so thank you again
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/21/11 12:26 PM
OK a question that I think I know the answer to but.....

Last week I had to work near to Ginge's work, and then Tuesday had to drive through her town, twice.

It's set me off down trigger street!!

I still have this sense that although life is good currently, that I am waiting for the other shoe to fall, he could be back in contact with her without me knowing. Work email work phone and no there is no way I can monitor there or anyway his numbers and contact details can be made unavailable. It's his company!

Yes i know that I would likely notice a difference in him and he is doing all he can to be loving, supportive, make time together, SF etc etc. But but but

I wonder how much of this is just normal stuff that takes time?

Anyway.....the question.

I really want to send Ginge an email telling her that any time she lets me have evidence that he has contacted her, she is welcome to all the left overs. That I will walk away.

I kinda think that would ensure that if there is contact she would then let me know cos she wants him, and I want nothing to do with him if he does decide to start lying and cheating again.

I simply can't do that again.

It just wanders round and round in my head. He knows the deal but if he gets foggy again, he is stupid enough to think he can et away with it.

Equally tho, NC means NC and and that should be for both of us. Her H has stopped responding to my texts and I know he has checked out of their marriage so I don't feel I have any spies in her camp now.

Ramblings I know but ideas or thoughts welcomed!
Posted By: itsmeagain Re: Actions v words - 07/21/11 12:37 PM
I sure wouldn't contact her, not for any reason! It's very unhealthy, and NC is certainly for you too. You'd actually be challenging her to contact your H! It's the last thing you want! No no no!!!!!!!
If you're obsessed with whether he could still be cheating, rev up the snooping.
Posted By: ElunaInNC Re: Actions v words - 07/21/11 01:46 PM
Contacting her will just give you triggers.

Also if she knows you will leave him, should they be in contact again, what reason would OW have to be honest if WH is in NC?
Posted By: wulffpack_girl Re: Actions v words - 07/21/11 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by itsmeagain
I sure wouldn't contact her, not for any reason! It's very unhealthy, and NC is certainly for you too. You'd actually be challenging her to contact your H! It's the last thing you want! No no no!!!!!!!
If you're obsessed with whether he could still be cheating, rev up the snooping.


Is there anyone else - other than OWH, if he's not responding to you - who could exert some pressure on Ginge or keep an eye on her? Her parents, maybe? (I'm sorry if you already addressed this and I missed this in your earlier thread)

As far as work, what are some EPs that can be put in place there? I work in a secure environment. H has my password to voice mail - in fact, it's the same as I use for cell phone voice mail so he can call in and check that whenever he wanted. I have to change my work email password every 30 days because of security restrictions, and he did have it while he lived at home (since he's moved out I've had to change it again but if he asked for it he could have it). I also leave my work laptop accessible since some communication took place using it (like if I've gone on a trip I'll just leave it sitting around the house; also the last couple of vacations we've taken I'll take it and leave it where he can get to it).

That doesn't address everything re: work, but way back in either my thread or my H's thread another poster addressed ways of making each other part of our work day/work environment. Frequent calling and texting, coming by for visits (unannounced is definitely OK if you suspect anything, too), going to lunch together, etc. Heck, I've heard of FWS's who have put webcams in their offices so the BS can see them at any time.

I'd say the biggest problem with work is simply that there is the possibility for holes in EPs to exist - unless you are together 24/7. I'd try to think of ways the two of you can POJA ways for you to feel safe about what he's doing at work.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/21/11 02:11 PM
Hi

Thanks for the quick responses,

Yes I think I really knew the answer, just needed to put it out there. It's not possible to spend any of the work days together as we both work a way away from home, him 20 mins in one direction, me all over the county but usually about an hour away so a lunch date would take a total of 3 hours, hardly possible. His work email is never accessed from home, he says it's not possible and I have seen him frustrated about that!

I haven't exposed to her father (mother died a week after NC started and other than her telling H there was no other contact). It hardly felt appropriate to contact her dad at that point and Ginge's H was against it too. I don't know her sisters married name and Ginge never had a FB page. So no one really to keep an eye her end other than her H.

I have no reason to suspect, it's just a big hole that refuses to shut up.

Guess it's just one of those breathe things!!

But if he was in contact and she sent me the evidence.....so it's not really a case of her being honest, just showing evidence.

But yes yes I get NC is NC and that has to be both of us in order for us to continue to recover. And no I won't do anything to give her any excuse to contact WH. He is far too weak willed not to respond.

He has promised any contact from her and he will show me and we will together decide on any response. I am really not sure what else he could do, it's all about not being able to trust him!!

Aghhh

Posted By: ElunaInNC Re: Actions v words - 07/21/11 03:09 PM
Can you visit him at work, and while you are there ask him to show you his email?

Work phone and email are bad ones for me too. I eventually got so upset about her having his work phone number, that H eventually put in a request to change his number.

As for the email, H took a screen copy of his email program at work and sent it to me. There was no proprietary information that could be seen, but I could see who was emailing and the subject.

I think those two things help to settle my stomach as to her contacting him at work. I am not overly concerned about it any longer, but I think that has more to do with knowing POSOW moved on in our case.

Hoping things get better for you.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/22/11 12:26 PM
Thanks Eluna

I think I just get an attack of the anxiousnessess sometimes!

I can't visit at work due to distances involved, there is no way I would ask him to send me a screen shot of his mail as it's way too easy to delete stuff before sending and that would set the paranoia off again, so I have to just make him responsible for his actions.

I don't want to feel like I have to monitor him, if he doesn't value what we are building, they thats his stupidity and I will be fine in my new life should it come to that.

Realistically as the wise nESRE says, he was so ill and streesed that last 2 years of his A due to all the pressure that I would notice any changes quickly.

I guess it's one of those things I have to learn to live with. I can only change today for me, I can't do it for anyone else.

Posted By: pokerface Re: Actions v words - 07/22/11 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by Tanam
Last week I had to work near to Ginge's work, and then Tuesday had to drive through her town, twice.

It's set me off down trigger street!!

Oh Tanam,

I know...those triggers are powerful things. The trick is to recognize it for what it is. A trigger. It's normal. Let it pass. It gets easier to do with practice.

I too struggle with the work "loophole". The only control I have there is to make my presence known to his colleagues. I have tried to make a connection with each of them and they know me as a real person who is like everyone else. Would they clue me in if something is going on? I don't know ...but I don't know what else I can do. I have to believe that there are still a few good people out there who would do the right thing.

Tanam, after the blow that you were dealt, I would be worried if you DIDN'T have that uneasy feeling that it might happen again. It is your natural instincts working to keep you from getting hurt again.

The best remedy, and I say this from personal experience, is to keep snooping and validating. You do this secretly. As time goes by and you continue to find nothing, your trust and sense of security grow stronger.

Have you thought about some type of GPS device? If contact with Ginge picked up at work, then surely they would start to meet somewhere. That might be the best way to catch it. I know you don't want to spend the rest of your life playing PI, but it helps to have tools in place for when you get that feeling and need to validate.

My best.

P.S. Don't contact Ginge...don't open that door.



Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/23/11 05:04 PM
Thanks Pokerface,

I am usually quite good at managing triggers, I notice them, and then focus on something else, it was just 3 big ones in a row that knocked me.

No I won't contact Ginge, won't give her any opportunity to sneak under the wire!!

Snooping is very hard, as detailed before email was work based, phone number public GPS a possibility but in reality where they used to meet was somewhere he goes a lot for work as well!! He also travels a lot during the day for work so they could meet anywhere en route, which was what they used to do!!

The work thing is a loophole I think I will have to live with. And I do think that he would tell me, if not explicitly, IYKWIM, by his behaviour. So I guess I need to practice what I preach

Remain in the moment, in the marriage and be aware of change in either direction.

Currently I really have nothing more I can ask him to do. He's trying, trying really hard, it's just those pesky gremlins that sneak in and whisper things that feed my insecurity.

Time and Patience!!
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Actions v words - 07/23/11 09:41 PM
Again, this is why relocation is recommended.

The short-term inconvenience will be justified.

In other words, the loss is less than the gain, and the sacrifice of a new location, new work, etc is more than worth it.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 07/24/11 09:39 AM
nice idea but it's his business, other people's jobs would go.

Not something that I can live with, not something I need to live with, it's only occasional triggers when I have to pass through her town or work near her office which is 50 miles away so it's not often.

Moving would mean I loose my job which I love and being 50 something, not yet ready to retire.

So no, I can manage the triggers, just need a place to vent occasionally.

Thanks tho!!
Posted By: ElunaInNC Re: Actions v words - 07/24/11 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by Tanam
nice idea but it's his business, other people's jobs would go.

Ok so it is sounding like you are saying he owns the business. Short of owning a retail store, he should be able to change his personal line or at least provide you with an itemized call log to help with your triggers.

Have you asked him about this?

At first I did not want to ask H about it because I was afraid he would get in trouble (he is an employee, not a boss). I felt like if I inconvenienced him, he might leave me. But it got to a point I realized he had left me, the entire time he was involved in the A, he had left me. So what did I have to lose really, if I asked him to prove to me that he was no longer cheating? "Prove it" became a very common phrase for a couple of months in our house when triggers were really bad.

Just food for thought.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 10/21/11 10:06 AM
It's been a long while since I posted an update so thought I would pop in!

I don't visit often any more, the SAA forum triggers me in ways I really don't need any more.

We are doing well, the Ginge is now in the past, not mentioned and hardly visits in my mind any more. There are still the odd days when I think again about popping a VAR in his car, but then I think
a. if there were to be anything I would have to deal with it
and
b. there is nothing to be gained from it.

Life is good, we talk lots more, we spend lots of fun time together, we haven't had 'words' for months and we are both more loving than I ever thought possible.

If he is still in contact, well thats his problem, she is a crazy woman and to be honest would by now be putting so much pressure on him that he would be iller than he was before the final Dday. There is nothing to suggest it.

He looks better than he has for years, he is attentive and wonderful.

We didn't follow all the MB steps, (he never changed his phone or email, I didn't do a nuclear exposure but the important folks knew) but did institute NC and 20 + hours a week including talking time, but not talking about the A which came to be the real turning point. We have recovered from the hell of this affair, and built a new and real relationship where we respect each other and enjoy each other (in every way).

The support I got from this site helped me through some of my darkest days, not always directed to me, but also by reading other peoples stories too. My FWH never visited here, he read a few things and seemed to agree with them but largely we have drawn a line underneath it all and decided to move forward.

What happened happened, I can't change that and neither can he, what we can do is to accept what was and build on what we have now.

On our 20th Wedding anniversary his card to me said thank you and that he was looking forward to the next 20 years.

I see us as through the worst, and on the way to a happier future.

And yes, I fell in love with him again despite all the hurt and he fell back in love with me.

so thank you and to those still struggling, hang on in there, if it's what you both want, the principals here work.....I never thought I would be as happy and peaceful as I am today.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 11/02/11 05:12 PM
Just realised that I haven't thought about leaving for ages now.

I think thats the thing that has convinced me we are well on the way because for a lot of this year, that was on my mind, when, where to, what about the cats etc etc etc!

And he made my birthday magical.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Actions v words - 11/02/11 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Tanam
Just realised that I haven't thought about leaving for ages now.

I think thats the thing that has convinced me we are well on the way because for a lot of this year, that was on my mind, when, where to, what about the cats etc etc etc!

And he made my birthday magical.

dance2
Posted By: MikeStillSmiling Re: Actions v words - 11/02/11 05:32 PM
Glad to know what is possible after all this.
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Actions v words - 11/03/11 12:23 AM
I feel like I'm watching a ping-pong tournament going back and forth between your posts!
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 11/03/11 07:48 AM
Mike\s story and mine are very similar!

There aren't many of us who are dealing with LTA of years.
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 11/05/11 09:25 AM
It's a year today since he last saw her, when he took her and her daughter to Alton Towers to see the fireworks. I got an evening at the local tiny fireworks display!!

I know he is feeling the loss today, and plan to make it a warm snuggly day for the two of us.

I would love to ask him how he's feeling, would love to talk about it for an hour, but I know that would make him feel rubbish so I won't.

I will focus on us, I will focus on us.....but it's hard, I want him to know that I know, but he knows that anyway!!

Such a shame that fireworks night will have this memory for both of us for ever. (I love fireworks!)

Onwards and upwards, will just remind him how much I love him and remember how far we have come.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Actions v words - 11/05/11 07:57 PM
Tanam,

I'm sorry you're feeling triggered by the fireworks. The thing is, your H may not even think twice about it since he is happy to be focusing on the present and future - and not the past. That's what I've found, anyway: that I'm the one thinking about these things or thinking about HIM thinking about these things - and my H just isn't.

You do such a good job of not beating him with a stick every time you're triggered.... congrats on that!

I know it's a fine line of needing to be validated and open about your own feelings while trying in earnest to not lovebust. If there is something you need from him, remember to ask, don't just let it slide. smile

I'm sure you will find a way to make it a GREAT day!
Posted By: MikeStillSmiling Re: Actions v words - 11/07/11 04:33 PM
How about this for a trigger?:

My wife is adorable. Always was. Of course I notice how she dresses and certainly since dday I do lot of complimenting on her clothes, hair, and whatnot.

But, lately, as I see her dressed for work, her "cuteness" in boots or jeans or anything has been triggering some anxiety.

Not for the thought she is running out and seeing him today because I have no concern this is a possibility, but for the times she's left the house looking like that for him.

Yes. Still exhibiting jealousy. If only I can listen to what Celtic Voyager said many moons ago to me, "you won, she picked you". Five words at times seem so elusive.

Triggers suck.
Posted By: helpfordad Re: Actions v words - 11/07/11 04:47 PM
Mike,

I know EXACTLY how you feel....still, to this day -- and boy, do I wish this would go away -- there are times (even Friday night, when the 2 of us went out on a double date) when my beautiful wife comes wisking around the bedroom corner from the bathroom all dolled up....just like those Friday nights she left me at home to watch the kids so she could go to Friday's with "Sue"...errr, OM.

Not good, trying to be better.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Actions v words - 11/08/11 01:33 AM
It's funny, I'm having the exact opposite problem. Since beginning recovery a year ago, H doesn't seem nearly as interested in his appearance as he was during that time he was involved in the affair. You know, the usual: working out, weight loss, shaving all the time, buying new clothes....even used hair remover on his back and all that jazz!

Now? For me? Uh....I guess I'm not worth all that. Doesn't need to do all that stuff for ME... just for POSOW, I guess!
Posted By: Tanam Re: Actions v words - 12/19/11 01:43 PM
What a difference a year makes. This time last year all I could think about was moving out, leaving the mess and starting over.

This year, I rarely even think about leaving, we don't argue, we enjoy each other and have had a good time.

When we were putting up the christmas decs I came across my card to him from last year, I wrote in it that I hoped we could make this the best year ever. (I don't think I believed it would be but was trying to say that I will work on this....will you?)

Well a year on and I think we probably did. We are aware of each other and our feelings, we are gentle with each other and we don't mention the A much at all. It does come up occasionally, mainly because it went on for so long that there is shared history. We went away fro a long weekend a couple of weeks ago. I had booked a cottage on line and when we arrived it was just like ginge's house! The similarities were striking. It took 2 days before we mentioned it and that led to a bit of a chat.

I was relieved when he said that he knew it was the best thing to end it, but he still has residual feelings and misses stuff he used to do, like taking her and her child out for special treats at Xmas but knows that he made the right choices for us. So....

Onwards and upwards into 2012, I don't visit here much now, it does trigger me into where i was this time last year but lurk occasionally.

I think the key was being clear about what was needed, making 15-20 hours UA time, breathing before speaking, focussing on the here and now rather than the past, and absolutely NO CONTACT from either of us with Ginge, much as I have wanted to slap her silly!!

I was lucky in that although she wanted him, he wanted a friend and got stuck, due to his appalling lack of backbone, in a relationship that caused nothing but hurt. He never wanted to leave me, always loved me and realised just how close he got to loosing everything.

I wish you all a Merry Xmas and New Year full of better things.
Posted By: nesre Re: Actions v words - 01/03/12 05:39 PM
Tanum

Good to see you 'lurking' in on us from time to time.

Happy for you two.

Quote
What a difference a year makes. This time last year all I could think about was moving out, leaving the mess and starting over.

This year, I rarely even think about leaving, we don't argue, we enjoy each other and have had a good time.


nESRE
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