Marriage Builders
Posted By: wle2 Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 05:13 AM
D-day plus 5 months.Found out by reading text messages not deleted to OM on her phone on his birthday. After confronting WW with it she flew back and has since done all the right things. We have been in counseling and all was going well until I asked why and what were you thinking questions. I had convinced myself that WW was seduced by OM and that had seemed to make it not feel as bad. I know, denial! Not the case! WW said it was her idea. She was the one who pursued OM! Now I and my crushed ego,are having trouble with doubt about meeting her SF. How do I address this and not ruin what good things we have gained in every other area.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 12:48 PM
Ask WW why did she chase the OM?

What have you and your WW done to recover since dday?

How did WW meet the OM, neighbor, work, friend?

How long have you been reading here?

Has the NC letter been written and sent?

What eposure has been done?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 03:04 PM
*** LINK *** to Radical Honesty in Basic Concepts

How GREAT ! Your wife was HONEST with you !

Originally Posted by This site's BASIC CONCEPTS
The Policy of Radical Honesty

Reveal to your spouse as much
information about yourself as you know;
your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes,
dislikes, personal history, daily activities,
and plans for the future.

To help explain this policy, I have broken it down into four parts:

1. EMOTIONAL HONESTY: Reveal your emotional reactions, both positive and negative, to the events of your life, particularly to your spouse's behavior.

2. HISTORICAL HONESTY: Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure.

3. CURRENT HONESTY: Reveal information about the events of your day. Provide your spouse with a calendar of your activities, with special emphasis on those that may affect your spouse.

4. FUTURE HONESTY: Reveal your thoughts and plans regarding future activities and objectives.

Quote
How do I address this and not ruin what good things we have gained in every other area.

Thank her for being honest.
Tell her you are hurt by the facts, and that you will need time to come to grips with the facts.

Then, ask her to hug you.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
WW said it was her idea. She was the one who pursued OM! Now I and my crushed ego,are having trouble with doubt about meeting her SF.

Your WW allowed OM to meet some of her other important ENs prior to sex.
Find out what those were.

Here's the EN list.

Quote
Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

And, here's the *** LINK *** to the EN part of Basic Concepts.

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 04:18 PM
Thank you The Road and Pepper band for responding, I'm new at this and am learning on the fly. I am very pleased with WW being honest with me and have told her so.We have read H N/H R filled out our EN Questionnaire. I have read Love Busters and Surviving an Affair. I have read every article on MB site.We have been in counseling for 4 1/2 months. She sent OM a text to end it before I could ask her to or read it.She and I have had some hard discussions about her affair the only feelings she says she has for him now is remorse and guilt. OM was a former co-worker who lives in another state. Only exposure was to my Dad, Best Friend and pastor. In our talks WW said OM meet her EN for Conversation and Admiration. I was hurt on the job 4 years ago and at the age of 46 had both knees replaced and had 2 bulging disks in back. Company fired me after 26 years and told me I was to disabled to work for them. WW said she pursued OM thinking our marriage and me in particular were as good as it would ever be. I had enough invested to retire early and am drawing close to what I was making while working.WW says it is not F N. When I ask what do I still need to do all she says is you are now doing it.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 04:22 PM
I feel for you, WLE. The fact is, the truth does hurt but Pepper is right: honesty is VERY important for recovery. Your denial would only just keep you from doing your part to secure a better marriage for the future. Believe me, I know this first hand.

Understand that recovery is not easy, but nothing worthwhile usually is. There IS pain. It's what you do with that pain that's important - not that it's there.

The best way to get through this is to focus on having an exceptional marriage in the future - one that is WAY better than you had before, and WAY better than any affair could ever be. If you keep that in mind as the goal for both of you, it will help you in the down times.

The only way to have that - an exceptional marriage - is to follow a recovery plan. Counseling alone won't do it; nor will just "striving to do better." You both have to be dedicated to doing things differently. Personally, I've found that having a plan is the only way to do so. You and your wife didn't get to this point by doing things right, so you must learn new methods of how to have a great relationship.

Read all you can here - you're in a great place to learn how to rebuild!
Posted By: Gamma Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 04:28 PM
WLE2,

Be glad you got that kind of honesty so soon, you can't base a recovery on dishonesty any more than you can build a bridge or a a house on inaccurate data.

I've been refused that kind of honesty from WW, I think because she knows I will go after OM if he was the seducer and fears I will divorce her in the other case. Unfortunately from what I know I think she was the active person, which is difficult to take as she was never that way with me.

Another big advantage to what your told you is that she will have less damaging guilt to carry around.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: MikeStillSmiling Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 04:30 PM
I try to take my wifes remorse and guilt and shame to heart. She can't undo what was done and expressed on every occasion she wants me. Therefore I am learning to not ask things that may bring info I really don't want. Its a swallowing of the need to know that which you don't know.

I found it gets easier.

It sounds like your sitch at home is similar to mine. Remember a remorseful wife is about as good as it gets for us early on.


Posted By: Gamma Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 04:30 PM
WLE2,

Did you try to expose the OM at the workplace? If he was your WW superior there is a good chance you can get him fired. He may have done this before and continue to destroy families as he tried to do with yours.

Is the OM married?

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 05:36 PM
Is OM married? Does his wife know? Have you independently confirmed that he no longer works for your wife's company and really IS in another state?

Don't take your wife's word for any of these things.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/12 10:13 PM
Wow, thanks guys I can all ready see I am in the right place. marital bliss, the Om not married and I checked and really is in another state. No longer works for company, thanks for the reminder. Sunny din, We are applying the four rules to our marriage recovery that is as much of a plan as we have at this time. We have learned independent behavior was our monster in the closet and both are brain storming this area. Gamma , you are right I am pleased with honesty. Mike Still Smiling that is what I am now learning, wish I had found you guys sooner! Thank you again big help.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/05/12 01:33 AM
wle, this site is full of great information on keeping your marriage safe. Check out the 'Most Popular Links' on the right side of your screen if you haven't done so already. That's a good place to start. Jump back on your thread if you have any questions on any of the material. (You don't have to start a new thread to ask a question - just stay on this one. We'll find you smile )
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 03:06 PM
Have not been on here for months because FWW went all in on restoring our marriage and we have been progressing at a rapid pace until...I started triggering again. Date and activity association. Their last rendezvous of the PA, upcoming D-day anniversary and what used to be our favorite RA. I know it has not even been one year but FWW has come back to me so completely and has so much remorse that I am feeling ashamed of my own thoughts. I have not brought up the A in months and honestly did not feel the need to till this week.RH about how I feel is what I know I need to give her and have. I will continue to, just wanted to know how others handled their association triggers. Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Have not been on here for months because FWW went all in on restoring our marriage and we have been progressing at a rapid pace until...I started triggering again. Date and activity association. Their last rendezvous of the PA, upcoming D-day anniversary and what used to be our favorite RA. I know it has not even been one year but FWW has come back to me so completely and has so much remorse that I am feeling ashamed of my own thoughts. I have not brought up the A in months and honestly did not feel the need to till this week.RH about how I feel is what I know I need to give her and have. I will continue to, just wanted to know how others handled their association triggers. Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.

What you are experiencing is NORMAL.

Originally Posted by You
Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.

Express your feelings.
"I am having a sad day."
Or ....
"I am feeling insecure right now."

ALSO, express what you want your W to do ....
"Please hold me."
Or .....
"Come sit and just listen to me."

Don't ask "Why?" .... Dead end question at your stage.

You are not alone.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Have not been on here for months because FWW went all in on restoring our marriage and we have been progressing at a rapid pace until...I started triggering again. Date and activity association. Their last rendezvous of the PA, upcoming D-day anniversary and what used to be our favorite RA. I know it has not even been one year but FWW has come back to me so completely and has so much remorse that I am feeling ashamed of my own thoughts. I have not brought up the A in months and honestly did not feel the need to till this week.RH about how I feel is what I know I need to give her and have. I will continue to, just wanted to know how others handled their association triggers. Also how other people handle the tendency to hold back in order not to damage what we have gained to this point.

It's important to know that triggers are going to be there - especially when "anti-versaries" rear their ugly heads. It's normal and you just have to get through them the best you can, utilizing various coping mechanisms: redirecting your mind, turning negatives into positives (i.e. making special plans on a formerly bad date/place), redirecting efforts to making your marriage even better, etc...

It's also important to note that you are NOT supposed to bring up the A, at all. It only brings the past into the present - as we say around here. Dr. Harley is very clear that even with the policy of radical honesty that discussing the affair - or triggers - only reminds you both of the betrayal. It is difficult to grasp how you are supposed to be open with your spouse while not bringing up the trigger, I know. I had a whole discussion on it on my thread.

Of course, this doesn't mean that you don't let your spouse know you are struggling. It means that you don't go into specifics. You tell your spouse that you need some extra TLC or reassurance because you are having a difficult time and need her help to feel better. You don't go into details about the trigger.

I know it may seem unfair. When you have a remorseful spouse, however, they know they are the cause of the pain without having to be told exactly why. It sets back recovery when you talk about the past so you keep everything in the here and now - or in planning for the future. Thus, it is in your best interest to keep the past where it belongs.

A lot of us have used these forums as a place to talk about these things because at times, we do need others to understand our pain and all of us here do. It's better to discuss it here than to bring the A back into your marriage.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 05:19 PM
Thank you Pepperband for the great info and advice. I need to stay connected! We were "checking in" with each other and asking how the other was feeling but I forgot what I had learned from MB early on and as the triggers started again I jumped into the deep end of the pity pond and went too specific.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 05:46 PM
SunnyDinTX, I have been clubbing myself like a baby seal for bring up the A this week! This is why hard heads like me need to stay on MB. Thank you for the life line of good advice! I need all the help I can get to keep from messing up what the FWW and I have regained. Seeing those tears streaming down her face and hearing her whisper, "I am so sorry" and about D-day " I don't think of it as the day you caught me, but as the day you saved me!" Made me realize I had screwed up royally and that did not know how to handle my thoughts and feelings with out causing unnecessary LB withdrawals . At least I knew enough to come back here!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
SunnyDinTX, I have been clubbing myself like a baby seal for bring up the A this week! This is why hard heads like me need to stay on MB. Thank you for the life line of good advice! I need all the help I can get to keep from messing up what the FWW and I have regained. Seeing those tears streaming down her face and hearing her whisper, "I am so sorry" and about D-day " I don't think of it as the day you caught me, but as the day you saved me!" Made me realize I had screwed up royally and that did not know how to handle my thoughts and feelings with out causing unnecessary LB withdrawals . At least I knew enough to come back here!

Well, it's tough to know how to get the help you need and being O&H without bringing the past into it. I think sometimes the advice (to not talk about the A or triggers) is misconstrued as the BS is supposed to just suck it up and deal with it - or stuff it. That's not the intent at all. It's about finding a way to get the help you need to move past the trigger without staying stuck on the details of the A.

Like anything else, it's all a balance. I can tell my H that I don't want to see a specific movie, for instance, without telling him that the lead character reminds me too much of OW. If he presses for a reason I don't want to see the movie, I can simply tell him it is not a movie that would put me in a good place mentally. I'm still being honest without beating him over the head with the past.

Another thought about not bringing up the A or triggers - who among us FBSs wants to further remind our FWSs of their APs??? Not me!

Don't feel too bad about your mistake - we all make them. I doubt there is a FBS among us who has been perfect on this matter. It seems to be one of the most difficult aspects of MB for the recovering BS. On one hand, it makes us feel better to "remind" our spouses of the hurt they caused and how lucky they are we took them back after such pain. It makes us feel "sure" they aren't forgetting about how they betrayed us and how we still hurt. BUT...at what cost? The "feeling better" about reminding them is fleeting - momentary at best. It does more damage than good to the state of our marriage when we succumb to the urge of bringing the past into the present.

It is far more healing to tell your spouse what you need from them and have them meet that need. It is through this action that they are demonstrating the necessary remorse. Don't we say "actions speak louder than words?" What, then, is better for your marriage: having your spouse actively meet your needs in moments of insecurity and sorrow - or seeing the downtrodden look on his/her face or tears in his/her eyes - feeling hopeless because they can't change the past?

I don't know. I think sometimes we (as FBSs) feel a bit better when we see our spouse feel bad. Part of us wants them to hurt because they hurt us. Them hurting isn't going to restore our marriages, however. Them changing along with us - creating better behaviors IS.

It's all about seeing the big picture rather than going for the immediate gratification of wanting to hit back.



Posted By: Pepperband Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
SunnyDinTX, I have been clubbing myself like a baby seal for bring up the A this week!

Not necessary. Indeed this would be "over-kill". (pun intended)


Quote
This is why hard heads like me need to stay on MB.

I don't consider myself a hard head, but I frequently learn new MB pearls. smile

Quote
Seeing those tears streaming down her face and hearing her whisper, "I am so sorry" and about D-day " I don't think of it as the day you caught me, but as the day you saved me!"

WoW ... pretty powerful indeed!

Quote
Made me realize I had screwed up royally and that did not know how to handle my thoughts and feelings with out causing unnecessary LB withdrawals . At least I knew enough to come back here!

Progress, not perfection.

Posted By: Prisca Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Don't feel too bad about your mistake - we all make them. I doubt there is a FBS among us who has been perfect on this matter. It seems to be one of the most difficult aspects of MB for the recovering BS. On one hand, it makes us feel better to "remind" our spouses of the hurt they caused and how lucky they are we took them back after such pain. It makes us feel "sure" they aren't forgetting about how they betrayed us and how we still hurt. BUT...at what cost? The "feeling better" about reminding them is fleeting - momentary at best. It does more damage than good to the state of our marriage when we succumb to the urge of bringing the past into the present.

It is far more healing to tell your spouse what you need from them and have them meet that need. It is through this action that they are demonstrating the necessary remorse. Don't we say "actions speak louder than words?" What, then, is better for your marriage: having your spouse actively meet your needs in moments of insecurity and sorrow - or seeing the downtrodden look on his/her face or tears in his/her eyes - feeling hopeless because they can't change the past?

I don't know. I think sometimes we (as FBSs) feel a bit better when we see our spouse feel bad. Part of us wants them to hurt becatuse they hurt us. Them hurting isn't going to restore our marriages, however. Them changing along with us - creating better behaviors IS.

It's all about seeing the big picture rather than going for the immediate gratification of wanting to hit back.
hurray


What a wonderful explanation!



[/quote]
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Don't feel too bad about your mistake - we all make them. I doubt there is a FBS among us who has been perfect on this matter. It seems to be one of the most difficult aspects of MB for the recovering BS. On one hand, it makes us feel better to "remind" our spouses of the hurt they caused and how lucky they are we took them back after such pain. It makes us feel "sure" they aren't forgetting about how they betrayed us and how we still hurt. BUT...at what cost? The "feeling better" about reminding them is fleeting - momentary at best. It does more damage than good to the state of our marriage when we succumb to the urge of bringing the past into the present.

It is far more healing to tell your spouse what you need from them and have them meet that need. It is through this action that they are demonstrating the necessary remorse. Don't we say "actions speak louder than words?" What, then, is better for your marriage: having your spouse actively meet your needs in moments of insecurity and sorrow - or seeing the downtrodden look on his/her face or tears in his/her eyes - feeling hopeless because they can't change the past?

I don't know. I think sometimes we (as FBSs) feel a bit better when we see our spouse feel bad. Part of us wants them to hurt becatuse they hurt us. Them hurting isn't going to restore our marriages, however. Them changing along with us - creating better behaviors IS.

It's all about seeing the big picture rather than going for the immediate gratification of wanting to hit back.
hurray


What a wonderful explanation!
[/quote]

Why....Thank you, Prisca!!!! smile As you can tell, I had to work all that out myself during the past 20 months! weightlifter
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 07:52 PM
Ditto to Prisca"s comment! SunnyDin you are so good at expressing your thoughts and incites into words that really help others. Thank you for sharing your gift.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 08:30 PM
I forgot what a rear view mirror is used for. I took my eyes off where I was going and stared for to long at where I had been. Not a smart move since we were moving forwards and gaining speed!
I like the idea of doing some thing new on the dates! Anyone have any ideas?
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/27/12 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Ditto to Prisca"s comment! SunnyDin you are so good at expressing your thoughts and incites into words that really help others. Thank you for sharing your gift.

I appreciate the vote of confidence!

As for looking back - you have a great attitude about recovery; you and your wife should do just fine! Triggers are normal as are down times and angry times... as long as you keep working the program you will end up better than ever!

As for date ideas, try this site: http://www.niftydateideas.com/

They've got some fun stuff. Trying something new together is always fun! When my H and I were new into recovery we got 2 white German Shepard puppies. For months on Saturdays we would take them to their training classes and of course, we worked with them throughout the week together too and took them on walks and to the dog park. It might not be your traditional UA time, but we had so much fun! Now, we have 2 100 lb furry kids that are well-trained and are a constant reminder of our love and commitment.

Recently we've talked about taking other kinds of classes: photography maybe, or cooking (although I'm already a good cook, H is not). H took me to the shooting range several times and I found I was an awesome shot!

For us, dating has sometimes been the traditional dinner and a movie but we've worked hard at finding new recreational activities to enjoy together.

Sometimes we find that going out with other couples is great too. There's something about witnessing other people appreciate your spouse that makes YOU appreciate your spouse even more!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/28/12 01:49 PM
I love the quite warrior reference! That is a great description of how it feels to be the only one wanting to save a marriage. When I talk to people about MB I too always tell them that it is a place of hope. The sense that you are not alone is why I keep coming back. Well, My FWW just pulled in and she I are going to hang "her" deer stand together today! How cool is that!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/28/12 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I love the quite warrior reference! That is a great description of how it feels to be the only one wanting to save a marriage. When I talk to people about MB I too always tell them that it is a place of hope. The sense that you are not alone is why I keep coming back. Well, My FWW just pulled in and she I are going to hang "her" deer stand together today! How cool is that!

VERY cool
cool
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/31/12 12:01 PM
Have spent the last few days reading the threads of others and have gotten so much information and understanding about how and what I am feeling. My heart goes out to those who are not far along in R if at all. To the ones who are almost there, you are a beacon of hope to the rest of us.
I could not understand why I felt so irritated at the the FWW's lack of urgency towards our recover as time moved on. Thanks to MB and reading the spot on post I now see it.
FWW has never felt the bone crushing devastation that is D-day! WS is just glad to still be here. I have worked, read, agonized over every thing I can in order to never experience that level of pain again. What I am learning from reading the threads of others is how I must tell FWW what I need but with out LBW's. O&H, RH and killing the protection liar in me!

Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/31/12 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
FWW has never felt the bone crushing devastation that is D-day! WS is just glad to still be here. I have worked, read, agonized over every thing I can in order to never experience that level of pain again. What I am learning from reading the threads of others is how I must tell FWW what I need but with out LBW's. O&H, RH and killing the protection liar in me!

I always keep in mind, WLE, that while my FWH never felt the crushing devastation of betrayal, he had his own crushing things to deal with: of being the one who did the betraying; shame, unworthiness, embarrassment, failure, etc... And yes, waywards bring that on themselves while the faithful do not, it's true. However, if you go through a lot of these threads you will find that most would rather be in the FBS shoes rather than those of the FWS. I know, for instance, that if we are watching tv and adultery comes up, it is much harder on my H these days than it is on me.

You hit on a key point here and one that is touted often: your marriage MUST become exceptional - better than it ever has been - to truly recover. MB gives you great tools for that and it's a never-ending process. You never "arrive" because you constantly learn and grow when you are both vested. It's a beautiful thing!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/31/12 11:52 PM
SunnDin thank you again, you are right and I have seen that shame and worthlessness almost crush FWW earlier in R and that is partly wh I am so slow to tell her what I need from her now.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/01/12 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
SunnDin thank you again, you are right and I have seen that shame and worthlessness almost crush FWW earlier in R and that is partly wh I am so slow to tell her what I need from her now.

Your telling your wife what you need is a definite must - as long as you do it in a way that does not bring up the past. For my H, it was a relief for him to know how he could help; to have something active to do to make me feel secure made him feel less helpless in our situation.

If you are hesitant, perhaps you need to work on your delivery.

"W, I would really appreciate it if you would text me during the day a time or two. Knowing you are thinking about me really helps me stay focused on the fact that we are more connected than ever..."

Rather than...

"W, I feel so hurt when I think about all the times you texted OM. I wish you would text me like that...."

Just an example of course. I don't know that this is an issue.

If she doesn't respond like you would like to your request, then it's time for...

"Wife, I feel hurt that you ignored me request for contact during the day. It makes me feel you are not willing to do what it takes to make me feel secure in your commitment to us...."

Always keep things in the present. Communicate from the positive position and make it about your feelings so you are not committing DJs or SDs and you will do fine!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/01/12 06:48 PM
Been jumping up and down in my mind since last night when FWW actually started reading SAA! I am so grateful for stumbling on to MB when my nightmare began. I picked my username wle2 ( will love end #2)because I have never wanted it to end even though it almost has twice in our almost 30 M.
Was told in 4/2009 by W that she did not want to be M and has been talking to a lawyer. Blindsided and numb I never saw it coming. But thanks to MB I have learned that I wasn't even looking. 48 hour separation at mother's house. MIL, DD1, DD2 and everyone else we know talked her into "trying to work it out" Went to one MC meeting and nothing else. Over the next year I tried everything I could to connect with W to no avail. By the time I found MB and got an understanding of EN and the LB it was too late. WW's PA started 6/2010.I could not get her to connect with me because she was already connected to OM. One year and two months later still clueless about A but having that gut feeling that something was not right cried out to God why won't W connect with me?! I found the text the next day! Thought this would surely be it this time, hence the wle2!
Now on the cusp of the one year "anti-versary" (LOVE this name SunnyDin) Hope and excitement are flooding my thoughts.
wle??? not yet!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/01/12 07:03 PM
Your story sounds very familiar, WLE. (Great to know what it stands for!) I picked SunnyD because I was determined to keep a "sunny" attitude, no matter what. I liked SunnyD but it was taken - so I added the "in Texas" part.

When you start reading various stories of others on the forum, you realize how much of a pattern infidelity really is and similar words and actions are in every account.

I often find when I pray for something I am lead to exactly what I need - funny how that happens. smile I prayed often in the week before D-day that I would be shown what I needed to know. Of course, I also did the legwork to be proactive too.

It really is good to hear that you are feeling hope with the anti-versary coming up! (Wish I could take credit for that - but it's something that someone once used on my thread!) Often times BSs are filled with sadness or even anger with this date. If it occurs, it's natural. The best way to handle it is to plan something great for you and your W to do that day.

Glad to hear your W is reading SAA! Has she read the other materials? Have you gone through the questionnaires? Hopefully you aren't the only one doing the program here... I think you said you both were. It's important that you're in this together. When my husband read the books it made so much sense to him - he saw exactly how it came to be that he ended up doing what he did - and how our marriage needed to change. He has even shared it with others.

Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/01/12 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Glad to hear your W is reading SAA!


My wife reading SAA was definitely a turning point in our marriage. She went from an unwilling participant, believing MarriageBuilders to be about how to "not hurt one another", to really understanding the dynamics and how to avoid situations like the one she got herself into.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/02/12 01:14 PM
MC gave us a copy of HNHN at first meeting day one. FWW read it and has visited MB some. Has not posted anything. We did the questionnaire and I have been showing Affection/having IC/ Being O&H/ doing more RC and telling of my admiration for her every waking moment for 8 months now! Funny thing is this is what we were doing 33 years ago when we fell in love. Imagine that! Giving copies of HNHN as wedding gifts now. SunnyDin wish I could have gotten one then. Doormat no More - turning points are what I watch and listen for every day and hope yours continues to be that healing balm for you both.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/02/12 03:17 PM
Know what you mean, wle. My H and I both wish we'd have had MB 20 years ago! I told all 3 of our children that they WILL be going through "MB counseling" from us before they get married. smile In fact, I have already gone over a lot with DD20.

Of course, HNHN is GREAT! Nice that your MC was on top of that. Lovebusters is very important too - and a necessary component to the equation. I figured I would start DD20 off on Fall in Love Stay in Love since it is the holistic overview.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/07/12 11:23 AM
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the harder you try NOT think about an event, like the one year mark of D-day this week for me, that every where you look the date is flashing like a neon sign! D-day for me is 8/10. The state of Georgia has to be in on it because this year's sales Tax holiday for back to school supplies starts 8/10 !!! That is all I have heard for days...August tenth...August tenth , don't forget...August tenth !!Radio, TV. I thought I had a handle on this anxiety until this week. I plan on taking my FWW out and creating a new memory on that date! If I can make it to then!
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/07/12 11:46 AM
Yes and that is normal.what to do about it? Reclaim that day as your special day. Plan something special, buy a gift and have up it engraved with something like, August 10, the date we reclaim our marriage and wipe the slate clean. May ever August 10th find us stronger and more in love than the previous year. Or something really special and meaningful to you. Take it back as a day do renewal and recommitment.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/07/12 04:55 PM
The one good thing you could take from this constant reminder is that it's possible that this "flooding" as it's called, can help you get over the date as a trigger.

If you haven't heard of it, flooding is when you subject yourself to the trigger over and over until it doesn't affect you any longer. Dr. H offers it as one possible way to deal with things, especially if it's something unavoidable. For instance, if a particular restaurant bothers you, you and your wife would go there very regularly for a period of time, until you've reclaimed that restaurant for yourself.

Although, it should be noted that avoiding trigger places is still the best way of dealing with them.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/08/12 03:59 PM
princessmeggy, thank you for the great idea. I'm going to run with that one. It is the 1st day we started towards our goal of a great marriage. Even though we did not know it at the time we both see it that way now.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/08/12 04:24 PM
Flooding? Have not heard of that but understand the concept!
I don't think I have been flooded enough yet by my reaction to this date, maybe just damp!
I have learned from MB that if I don't try and control what I let my mind dwell on it tends to want to go down that dark and painful road.
Misery not only loves company it seeks it out. You guys are so right , I have a big day planned for the 10th to replace the bad memory's with new good ones.
The motel where FWW's PA occurred is one area I unknowingly did flood because I can now drive by there and not run off the interstate starring at it! Baby steps right. smile
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/08/12 08:48 PM
Yes here are some clips of Dr. Harley talking about it.
Radio clip on flooding

Radio clip on flooding
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/14/12 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Yes and that is normal.what to do about it? Reclaim that day as your special day. Plan something special, buy a gift and have up it engraved with something like, August 10, the date we reclaim our marriage and wipe the slate clean. May ever August 10th find us stronger and more in love than the previous year. Or something really special and meaningful to you. Take it back as a day do renewal and recommitment.
Thanks for the great Idea princess m.! I had a heart shaped necklace engraved on the front with the words " love God More" and on the back 08/10/11 and the Latin phrase " you saved my day"
We have decided that this day was not going to be the worst day of our lives any more but the beginning of all the rest of our great days.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/14/12 11:54 AM
My Fww was sitting beside me this Sunday evening and pulled up the MB site and asked me where I was posting. She told me that she has been reading the post of others dance2I am going to try to get her to start her own thread.
I made it through D-day with no melt downs. All of the advice you guys gave me was so helpful. I was so focused on the details of the date we had planned I did not have time to wander down the dark road in my mind.
I made it as special as I could for her and think she and I both will have fond memory's of this date from here on. For fun I had the restaurant owner write her a note on their special's board for her to see as we got to the front door. When she saw her name and the question it asked her she was very pleased.
Hope is what I was looking for when I found MB. Help with my pain, guidance for my panic is what caused me to post. I found all three here.
Now that the FWW is here also the hope part is really bright!
God is so good, all the time!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/14/12 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Yes here are some clips of Dr. Harley talking about it.
Radio clip on flooding

Radio clip on flooding
That second clip was spot on for me and will ask FWW to listen also, Thanks BH
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/14/12 01:39 PM
Congrats on the special day. Tell her we would love for her to join the MB family.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/14/12 04:25 PM
I'm so glad, WLE, that the day turned out so special for the both of you! The necklace sounds absolutely perfect - great job on that!!!

WLE-Wife - we would very much like you to be part of the MB family! smile

Awesome job to both of you for following the narrow path of recovery. It's worth it.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/15/12 01:41 PM
I shudder to think what might have happened if I had not stumbled on to MB while in my blind panic.
I give God the praise for that!
The article I found at the beginning was "Why women leave men" (To much of a novice to link to it, sorry)This article not only opened my eyes to what I was not doing for my W but more importantly introduced me to the MB concepts.
By the time I discovered the A I was able to apply plan A instead of running into a wall repeatedly out of desperation and despair.OK, first the wall for a few days then the plan.
It works people!
FWW was on egg shells waiting for me to yell and scream at her after confronting and exposing her A for several days afterwards. I have to admit I blistered her when I wrote in my journal but held my tongue in the hope of a future recovery.
Once she was able to see that I was willing to meet all of her most important EN she started to come back.
We are learning as we go down this road to recovery that there are off-ramps,pot holes and even speed bumps that must be avoided.
It truly is a narrow path.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/16/12 03:25 PM
You're right, WLE, it IS a narrow path - but one that is well worth it. Having a plan makes ALL the difference in the world.

You know, I'm not even sure how it is that I came to find the MB site myself, but I don't think it's any accident that I did! smile


Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/22/12 01:51 PM
Have been soaking up the responses to other people in recovery and have been taking notes for our MR.
Have not found an answer to what is bothering me now.
I know that there is a fine line between leading and pulling.
To lead my FWW she has to want to follow, and thankfully she does! But at her own pace or it becomes pulling.
I am also learning to avoid LB's when we talk about our plan.The DJ's are always waiting to slip out if I am not careful."I think you..." or " You need to..."
FWW is still in IC and has been reading here on MB. I want her to talk to her about what she is learning, I need to. I did not understand this need until I realized how excited I got when ever she would talk to me about it or I would see her activity working on the MB R plan we are on.
Am I off base here?
I guess what I am really seeking is affirmation. When I can see or hear her actually working on some aspect of our R I feel loved. Maybe even safe?
After learning from her about all the effort she had to put into having her A and keeping it a secret. It is reassuring to me on a deep, deep level that I am worth at least as much effort if not more to her now and that she is willing to make it.
FWW tells me everyday she loves me, she tells me how happy I make her now. Since our day starts at 5:15 am we are in bed by 9pm on a good day, on a very good day 7 wink
What EN is lacking here?
Has anybody felt this way and how did you handle it?


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/22/12 02:10 PM



wle2, it is reassuring when you see your spouse working on the marriage. Have you read the posts to 20yearhistory about UA time and its critical importance to recovery? Following the policy of UA will motivate your wife even more and create an intimacy and interdependency that is essential to romance.

If you read the posts of us that are fully recovered, we ALL attest to the importance of getting 15+ hours of UA time. Dr Harley says this program doesn't work without that step and I have found that to be true.

Are you familiar with this policy?
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/22/12 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Have been soaking up the responses to other people in recovery and have been taking notes for our MR.
Have not found an answer to what is bothering me now.
I know that there is a fine line between leading and pulling.
To lead my FWW she has to want to follow, and thankfully she does! But at her own pace or it becomes pulling.
I am also learning to avoid LB's when we talk about our plan.The DJ's are always waiting to slip out if I am not careful."I think you..." or " You need to..."
FWW is still in IC and has been reading here on MB. I want her to talk to her about what she is learning, I need to. I did not understand this need until I realized how excited I got when ever she would talk to me about it or I would see her activity working on the MB R plan we are on.
Am I off base here?
I guess what I am really seeking is affirmation. When I can see or hear her actually working on some aspect of our R I feel loved. Maybe even safe?
After learning from her about all the effort she had to put into having her A and keeping it a secret. It is reassuring to me on a deep, deep level that I am worth at least as much effort if not more to her now and that she is willing to make it.
FWW tells me everyday she loves me, she tells me how happy I make her now. Since our day starts at 5:15 am we are in bed by 9pm on a good day, on a very good day 7 wink
What EN is lacking here?
Has anybody felt this way and how did you handle it?

All of this is ABSOLUTELY normal, WLE! You and the Mrs. are doing a GREAT job.

I think at times we get a little head of ourselves: that if only we do everything right, we can get through the whole pain of what happened more quickly. It just doesn't work that way. I have a habit of telling people to remember that you must go THROUGH this, not around. So, regardless of how well you do in recovery, you are still a human, not a robot - you're going to have feelings that are repercussions of the infidelity. Sometimes those manifest in sadness, sometimes in anger, and sometimes just general "feeling bothered" and can't put your finger on it. It's normal.

In my case, I felt a sense of "high" when H and I were first in recovery. Working on our marriage like we hadn't done in years brought this feeling of euphoria. Like you (and every other FBS I know) I wanted to know my H was giving as much effort to us that he had to the A. That's easy to see in the beginning but harder as all of this becomes the new normal.

Your exceptional marriage can never be compared to the A. It is a totally different animal. It is built on a foundation that is genuine and lasting, not fake puffs of smoke. So, try not to compare your wife's efforts in the A to what she is doing as a wife as long as she's doing the work and keeping those EPs in place. Which, it sounds like she is.

It's perfectly normal that you feel safe when she's doing the work, and need that affirmation. That will continue to be the case for awhile, I imagine. I still need that and we are nearing the 2 year mark in November. I hope you have voiced this need to her.

Are you pulling or leading? It sounds like you are wanting your wife to make a little more effort. Can you be a little more specific about that? You are wise to watch your wording in the "I think you; You need to..." department. Something I've learned is to always make "I" statements and not "You" statements. In fact, on another thread they mention 3 key "I" statements that are fabulous! The proper wording can make all the difference because it's about what you need, not what you are demanding of her. (See next post with some good conversation techniques recommended by Dr. H's daughter, Jennifer Chalmers.)

Without more specifics it's hard to know if she needs to step it up a little or if you just need to be patient. You are not off base at all - just need to pinpoint what needs to happen from here. How much UA time are you all getting? Typically if you get that "bothered" feeling it tends to be that either A: it's not been quite enough or B: a little more and the "bothered" goes away.

Sidenote: I'm curious as to the IC your wife is receiving - why - and how that is going.



Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/22/12 02:58 PM
I'm not the greatest at bringing posts over from other threads. This was on 20Years thread, talking about the BH having to lead recovery, etc... BrainHurts commented and Doormat_No_More replied. His reply has the statements I referred to above. I think you'll benefit from the whole post!


Posted By: BrainHurts
It is frustrating when the BS seems to have to do a lot of the heavy lifting in recovery.


This is Door's Reply:
And yet, it's the most common situation, particularly when the betrayed is male.

Something that really helps us get through the tougher times is to have "something to look forward to". We try to always make sure we're planning some fun family outing, vacation, time away, whatever. Right now, we're planning a trip for a Shakespeare Festival with the family and a tour of Europe starting with ten days in Amsterdam, followed by backpacking for the next week across some tourist spot (just wife & I on that one, no kids). By and large, these aren't "budget-busting" kinds of activities; we plan them VERY cheap, taking advantage of every loophole to keep expenses down.

Part of the learning process is learning what kinds of things your spouse wants or does not want communicated. For instance, we agreed to share everything as well, but my wife is really not interested in my weird habit of timing how long it takes for me to digest things by evaluating the content of my stools, and reporting the results smile So there's a line you don't want to cross, you know? But you have to tell your spouse in the first place to know where that line is, or what kinds of things he/she does not want to know about.

Jennifer Harley Chalmers taught us a few techniques that have helped us HUGELY with our messaging.

"I love it when" statements are for when you want to reinforce a behavior that deposits Love Units. For instance, "I love it when you discuss your conversations during the day with me that night," or "I love it when I get home from long day at work and there's a meal waiting for me," or "I love it when you wake me up in the middle of the night for ((explicit description deleted))."

"I'd love it if" statements are for when you want to gently remind your spouse not to Love Bust. "I'd love it if you would close the shower curtain after you shower," "I'd love it if you'd text me when you're stressed out so that I can help," or "I'd love it if we could use some lube next time we do that."

"I'd like to brainstorm" statements are for when you know that if you used one of the above statements it would be a demand. "I'd like to brainstorm about how to get the lawn cleaned up this week," "I'd like to brainstorm about ways to help us keep in closer touch with one another throughout the day," or "I'd like to brainstorm ways to avoid chafing in uncomfortable areas when we do that thing we did in the middle of the night last night."
_________________________
Doormat_No_More
(Formerly Barnboy)
4 months after D-Day
1 year after D-Day
Two Years Later
Original thread lost in the forum purge of '09.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/24/12 06:54 PM
MelodyLane I will start reading those post today, thank you. We are back up to 18 to 20 hours UA now. FWW told me also last night that she sees from her time on MB that we have to start new habits. UA being the biggest.I pour over as many post from you guys as I can thanks for your help!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/24/12 07:38 PM
Thank you SunnyDin for all your help.
What I mean by leading verses pulling is getting information or feed back from her about how she is feeling,what are her concerns. How well am I meeting her needs am I doing anything she does not like. I am on edge not hearing these things. All I get when I ask is '"Your doing it" That is a good thing I know I guess I need regular updates without having to "pull" it out of her.
I was blind sided by all of this originally and am still too gun shy to go for to long with out hearing how she is.
I don't want to allow her needs to be unmet ever again.
FWW will answer any specific questions with O&H, just never volunteers any thing.
As for her IC she has been going for 6 months and says it is to try and understand how her past shaped her personality.She is happy with what they have been doing.
They are suppose to bring me back when they find the answers. If this is what she needs and it does not cut into our UA I can live with it for a while longer.
I asked about the time line last night and it is about 3 more weeks.
Resent empty nesters UA is up to 18 to 20 hours.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/25/12 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Thank you SunnyDin for all your help.
What I mean by leading verses pulling is getting information or feed back from her about how she is feeling,what are her concerns. How well am I meeting her needs am I doing anything she does not like. I am on edge not hearing these things. All I get when I ask is '"Your doing it" That is a good thing I know I guess I need regular updates without having to "pull" it out of her.
I was blind sided by all of this originally and am still too gun shy to go for to long with out hearing how she is.
I don't want to allow her needs to be unmet ever again.
FWW will answer any specific questions with O&H, just never volunteers any thing.
As for her IC she has been going for 6 months and says it is to try and understand how her past shaped her personality.She is happy with what they have been doing.
They are suppose to bring me back when they find the answers. If this is what she needs and it does not cut into our UA I can live with it for a while longer.
I asked about the time line last night and it is about 3 more weeks.
Resent empty nesters UA is up to 18 to 20 hours.

Was your wife one that kept her feelings close to the vest pre-Dday, WLE? Have you told her that you wish for her to speak up rather than you having to ask?

Again, good communication techniques can help here. Your wife needs to understand that it's helpful to you when she reaffirms where you are doing things right. It not only gives you a sense of reassurance but can be a way that she can meet the need of admiration for you. Those "I love it when you..." statements mentioned above should be used from her to you as well as you to her. If she says to you, "I love it when you bring me coffee in the morning," it shows appreciation for your efforts.

I think if your wife can see this as a way to meet your needs, she might open up a bit more. Remember - this need meeting stuff is a two way street. This is what's so great about the MB program: you learn a common language that takes the guesswork out of things.

Before MB, I would try hard to convey my feelings and for H to "get it" and it was hit or miss. Now, because we have these principles and terms to use, I don't have to go into a 15 minute filibuster; I can tell him succinctly, in a way where he knows what actions to take. It's awesome! This is also where all those worksheets come in. You guys have done all the questionnaires, right? It's important that she not only reads here and understands that you need new habits in the marriage, but that she is as committed as you are to making your marriage exceptional.

As for the IC, it's commendable that your wife wants help to figure some things out. What concerns me is that so many times, counselors spend too much time digging around in the past rather than looking for solutions for the present and future. I've been to IC myself and I know what I experienced: there are some really good counselors out there that focus on behavior modification. There are also many who cause more damage than good! Your wife's personality wasn't the cause of the affair, I hope you both know this. The cause was bad boundaries around members of the opposite sex.

Good job on the UA time! Keep it at or above the 20 hour mark when you are feeling uneasy in any way. Find some new things that the two of you can enjoy together.

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/26/12 11:03 AM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
[quote=wle2]Thank you SunnyDin for all your help.
What I mean by leading verses pulling is getting information or feed back from her about how she is feeling,what are her concerns. How well am I meeting her needs am I doing anything she does not like. I am on edge not hearing these things. All I get when I ask is '"Your doing it" That is a good thing I know I guess I need regular updates without having to "pull" it out of her.
I was blind sided by all of this originally and am still too gun shy to go for to long with out hearing how she is.
I don't want to allow her needs to be unmet ever again.
FWW will answer any specific questions with O&H, just never volunteers any thing.
As for her IC she has been going for 6 months and says it is to try and understand how her past shaped her personality.She is happy with what they have been doing.
They are suppose to bring me back when they find the answers. If this is what she needs and it does not cut into our UA I can live with it for a while longer.
I asked about the time line last night and it is about 3 more weeks.
Resent empty nesters UA is up to 18 to 20 hours.

Was your wife one that kept her feelings close to the vest pre-Dday, WLE? Have you told her that you wish for her to speak up rather than you having to ask?

Again, good communication techniques can help here. Your wife needs to understand that it's helpful to you when she reaffirms where you are doing things right. It not only gives you a sense of reassurance but can be a way that she can meet the need of admiration for you. Those "I love it when you..." statements mentioned above should be used from her to you as well as you to her. If she says to you, "I love it when you bring me coffee in the morning," it shows appreciation for your efforts.

I think if your wife can see this as a way to meet your needs, she might open up a bit more. Remember - this need meeting stuff is a two way street. This is what's so great about the MB program: you learn a common language that takes the guesswork out of things.

Before MB, I would try hard to convey my feelings and for H to "get it" and it was hit or miss. Now, because we have these principles and terms to use, I don't have to go into a 15 minute filibuster; I can tell him succinctly, in a way where he knows what actions to take. It's awesome! This is also where all those worksheets come in. You guys have done all the questionnaires, right? It's important that she not only reads here and understands that you need new habits in the marriage, but that she is as committed as you are to making your marriage exceptional.

As for the IC, it's commendable that your wife wants help to figure some things out. What concerns me is that so many times, counselors spend too much time digging around in the past rather than looking for solutions for the present and future. I've been to IC myself and I know what I experienced: there are some really good counselors out there that focus on behavior modification. There are also many who cause more damage than good! Your wife's personality wasn't the cause of the affair, I hope you both know this. The cause was bad boundaries around members of the opposite sex.

Good job on the UA time! Keep it at or above the 20 hour mark when you are feeling uneasy in any way. Find some new things that the two of you can enjoy together.
First time FWW let me know how she felt before D-day was the day she told me wanted a divorce. I have tried to rephrase the requests to be more direct.
I fully understand that FWW completely owns her A but the failed M is 50% my fault.It also helps me to work diligently on meeting her EN's so my mind does not fly down dark roads.
FWW has a grasp of the BC of MB and is trying to apply what she has learned so far.
I am her only RC we both had forgotten how much fun we used to have with each other. We are re-datingand it is a lot more fun than the slow death we were trapped in pre D-day!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/27/12 04:23 PM
Have been re-reading about exposure.
M DD's, FWW's siblings still don't know.
Does the window for non-discussed exposure close?
Think FWW will do it with me if I asked her to.
Tired of caring this burden alone.
Posted By: Gamma Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/27/12 04:52 PM
wle2,

Tired of caring this burden alone.

Then expose and relieve yourself! You are not obligated to go through life going along with your WWs lies. That is torture.

And it is true that men have no support when it comes to the pain they suffer from infidelity.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/27/12 08:19 PM
Thanks Gamma, I'm going too.
I need the pull no punches advice I get here!
Note to every body...
Follow the plan , DO NOT deviate!
It will slow you down if you don't.
If I could go back in time it wouldn't be to fix my MR mistakes now would it!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/27/12 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Thanks Gamma, I'm going too.
I need the pull no punches advice I get here!
Note to every body...
Follow the plan , DO NOT deviate!
It will slow you down if you don't.
If I could go back in time it wouldn't be to fix my MR mistakes now would it!

Exactly...and this means BOTH of you need to be following the plan. Take a look at several of the latest posts on OldWarHorse's thread, pages 30-31 in particular.

It's good that your wife gets to know the basics of MB, but it really does take both of you to work it, in detail, for a dozen of reasons. It's been seen here time and time again that when one spouse is doing all the work and the other one is just going along for the ride, it isn't usually successful. You can lead, but both of you should be working diligently at learning what each other needs and what behaviors to avoid. If not, your Taker will not be happy!

As for exposure, yes - it is part of recovery. There has been much discussion on several threads of late how it is not just for busting up an A (which is a primary purpose) but also to garner support for the marriage. It accomplishes that in several ways. Accountability of the WS is a must; in fact, having to face others knowing this info is often the first step towards the WS coming to the state of a repentant heart. The BS needs the personal support as well; it IS a burden that is too heavy to carry alone.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/27/12 11:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Dr Harley (underlined is my emphasis)

What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.

As you already know, I�m a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency�letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others -- especially those who care for you the most -- should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you�holding you accountable.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/28/12 01:25 AM
Sunny
Just read OWH thread while FWW is reading SAA.
Vacillating emotions as I look over and see her reading.
Stated tonight that she does want us to have a R plan.
Continued exposure is a big part of it I now realize and pray she will too.


Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/28/12 01:39 AM
OK..Good..Glad she is reading SAA and wants the recovery plan!

Exposure is never fun...but it is a part of recovery. If the two of you need advice on how to go about it, you can do a phone counseling session or call into the radio show.

A lot of people need to do phone counseling or the online program to succeed at recovery. You CAN do it at home but you must both be diligent.

Your wife sounds remorseful and ready to do the work. I would encourage her to post! A remorseful FWS is always welcome and would be treated kindly. (Although, we all - FWS or FBS - get 2x4's when we need them!)
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/29/12 02:28 PM
The plan is for Fww and I to do it together. Speaks volumes to me that she is willing to do this.
After finding my thread and reading my post last night and the replies of you wonderful MB people FWW signed up and told me she wants to start posting!!
She told me her user name last night but I was in such LB$ over flow it did not stick in my rattled brain.
Don't think she has posted any thing yet.
I woke up this morning and I noticed the sky is more blue, the birds are singing and the air is crisp and clean... or it could be just me.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/29/12 02:31 PM
Want to ask FWW about phone counseling for us but will probably have to be after her IC has ended.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/29/12 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
The plan is for Fww and I to do it together. Speaks volumes to me that she is willing to do this.
After finding my thread and reading my post last night and the replies of you wonderful MB people FWW signed up and told me she wants to start posting!!
She told me her user name last night but I was in such LB$ over flow it did not stick in my rattled brain.
Don't think she has posted any thing yet.
I woke up this morning and I noticed the sky is more blue, the birds are singing and the air is crisp and clean... or it could be just me.
Welcome to the MB family Mrs. Wle2.
hurray
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/29/12 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
The plan is for Fww and I to do it together. Speaks volumes to me that she is willing to do this.
After finding my thread and reading my post last night and the replies of you wonderful MB people FWW signed up and told me she wants to start posting!!
She told me her user name last night but I was in such LB$ over flow it did not stick in my rattled brain.
Don't think she has posted any thing yet.
I woke up this morning and I noticed the sky is more blue, the birds are singing and the air is crisp and clean... or it could be just me.

It's funny how that happens - how everything is brighter when you let go of the burden of trying to fix everything yourself!

And let me add to BH's welcome....

Mrs. WLE2, we are GLAD to have you here!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/04/12 08:54 PM
Exposed FWW A to our eldest DD and the only response I got at the time was"That explains a lot."
Thought Dad was off his rocker more than normal back then it seems!
I was getting stressed out afterwards about if I had done the right thing by saying anything this late . It took her two days but she finally called Me and her mother.
I Did not expose the A affair to her or the rest of the family because she was about to give birth to my granddaughter.
D-day was 5 days before the birth.
I waited to even confront the W until after GD was here. HELL week is how I describe that time.
I mistakenly keep putting it off afterwards because FWW's A ended the day I confronted her and she was willing to do what was needed to recover.
I did not realize how badly I needed them until now.
Glad to have DD support now though!
My youngest DD and my SIL are next.
My two S's found out through my Dad and that was a welcome relief for me.
Nothing but support for us so far!

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/06/12 12:30 PM
The W and I have not turned on the TV in almost three weeks. We have been having 20hrs. + UA.
We are going to discuss EP and shore up what I feel is still a lose end.
FWW has mostly all male friends and that is troublesome to me.

I will have to be her ONLY RC since she only has outdoor interest that are predominately male hobbies. Hunting, fishing, etc.

This is not a problem for me except where my disability hinders me.
Want to go over the changes I would like for her to make in her dealings with men.
I am not sure how this is going to go over with her since as I said she hardly has any female friends.

I have been working very hard on cleaning my side of the street and will continue to do so just need to have more O&H with what I need from W.
My taker is starting to grumble!
My baby DD and her H are spending the next few days with us and we will be talking to her next.
This rabbit whole I fell into never ends!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/06/12 11:02 PM
Great job, WLE! You are wise to expose the A to your family as it really does provide support for the marriage. Accountability is SO important for recovery.

You are also wise to address the issue of your wife having male friends! That was a condition that led to an affair: one you must eliminate.

It would be nice if your wife could find a female friend or relative to spend some time with. However, it's important that the two of you are each other's #1 RC anyway!

The rabbit hole DOES end...as long as you shore everything up, which you are doing. smile
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/07/12 02:26 PM
wle2 I had to comment on your thread. I had a really hard time giving up male friends too, because I, like your wife, have a lot of outdoor hobbies and randomly dirty sports that are predominantly male activities. I fought tooth and nail on my thread to not have to give all these 'friends' up. It was hard to just basically stop talking to people I have had in my life for a long, long time, but I had to decide if my husband's sense of security and trust, and the protection of our marriage and family was worth it. Each and every one of those friends, I had to ask myself, is 'X' worth losing my H and my family over? Of course the answer was no, all those other guys seemed meaningless to me when I asked myself the question that way.

I maintain my hobbies, but I am careful about the situations I am putting myself in there (don't go certain places if H can't be with me, etc.) and who I am around. I am hoping that one day i will meet a girl who likes to get dirty like me so I have a buddy to do things with that is safe, lol. So far no luck, everyone wants to talk about handbags and shopping and such. I say, does that come in camo? And they look at me like I have 2 heads. So, tell your W Unwritten understands. Its hard, but it can be done and has to be done to protect the M.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/07/12 05:31 PM
Sunny-
Thank you for you encouragement! FWW is getting the concepts now.
unwritten-
Please comment all you want to I NEED the help .My head is sore from running into so many walls!

FWW and I discussed this very subject last night and she agrees that she can not do these things like she did before.

What I had discovered is I should have been doing them with her all along!

I am the one who introduced her to them when we were dating 30 years ago!!

We both just forgot how much fun we can have together.

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/08/12 02:17 AM
I realized today that I also have to stop asking FWW how I am

doing so often and just do what I know meets her EN's.

Our don't ask / don't tell plan (sorry could not resist) is

still the route I am on.

I have a list of 40 A questions I had written

down while triggering my a** off around the Anti-versary of
D-day.

I had tucked it into my wallet and forgot about it. I started

to throw it away but decided to just leave it in there. I

don't know why. I stopped asking hard questions as soon as FWW

started her way back and after I got hammered by her honest

replies to those questions. I always wanted to know the

details, the motivations were harder to digest for me. Let

sleeping dogs lay if you don't want to get bit! Get what you

need then move on. MR is such a narrow path that one must be

careful not to veer off. My constant questioning about how well

I was meeting her EN are becoming a LB of AH!

As Atlanta's favorite daughter said, " As God as my witness

I'll never LB again!" Well... she would have if there had been

MB in 1865!







Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/08/12 01:52 PM
Are you saying you have questions about the A that have not been answered yet?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/09/12 11:32 AM
Unwritten
FWW answered every single question I asked of her. I stopped asking once

I realized she was completely over the OM and wanted MR. The

List was me releasing my stress during a particularly bad week.

The answers are not things that would do either of us any good

at this point and really are not things that I have to know, just

wanted to know while in a foul mood. I thought writing them on

paper would be better than blasting FWW with A detail questions.

I also stopped asking because I know FWW's fear of

answering those questions.

Besides I started this thread because

getting the honest answers to one my questions was more of a

burden to me after hearing it!
Posted By: Qoheleth Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/10/12 05:00 AM
I recall reading somewhere that it's okay to ask for details about the affair, but you should not ask "why". Anyone have the link?

For me, asking "why" just gets either fogbabble, or I get told "because you weren't meeting my emotional needs". You already know you should be meeting your spouse's emotional needs, so there's no need to ask why the affair.

Working out details is okay, but once you know the details, don't ask for the same info again. Write it down or record the conversation. Work out your own timeline to your own satisfaction. Explain to your spouse you want to put it entirely in the past.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/10/12 12:07 PM
Qoheleth-
Good advice about writing down what I am told. Thank you. My short term memory is shot since this nightmare started.

I am the poster child for wandering off the R path! I am having to go back and correct many things that I should have done a lot earlier in this.

Very early on our MC asked us to write down questions or concerns for us to go over in JC meetings. I found FWW's list.

Her only concern was about me asking her for PA details. Said she did not want to have to recite to me those details and did not want to go back there in her mind.

I never asked her those type of questions after I read her list.

I should have but even after all the heart ache and pain she had caused me I could not bring myself to hurt her by asking my questions.

FWW's fog lifted with in hours of me confronting her on D-day. I just shelved that line of questioning for her sake.

They have only recently crept back into my mind and only during SF of all times!!

The time line was an obsession with me and every thing I would place in or out of the A window. Especially pictures and events. I thought I was the only one to do this until I started reading this forum.

I have so many pictures of FWW taken during her PA that I use to look at them all day, almost every hour. By chance I took one of her just before she left the house to drive to the motel for what would turn out be her last night with OM.

The big events in our lives during that time like my BIL's passing two years ago today. I was the one holding FWW when we got the news. I was the one who held her through the funeral. Our DD's wedding, our anniversary and birthday celebrations. All of these during FWW's PA.
Time has cured that obsession hopefully it will this other also.

The individual wounds are healing very well, it is just that there are so many of them.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/10/12 01:32 PM
Every BS has a need for a different level of detail, some want no detail, and some cannot move on until they have every last shred of time documented in their brain. I was the latter, shortly after DDay (s) I asked about every detail my mind pondered on. It was hard for H to give that info, but it was twice as hard for me to hear it. I believe I got up to toss my cookies a couple times. Since then there have been a couple times I have thought of NEW details I didn't ask about, and I asked them. It never gets easier. Now, whatever my little brain devises I think, good grief don't you have enough already??? And I drop it. As hard as it was, for me, I had to have all that intel. At least now I know, vs having my imagination run wild, which it would have. Now I know what I'm dealing with. It is done and over and I can move on and not a decade later be wondering "I wonder if..." and to me, that was necessary.

Its up to you to decide what level of detail you need. But if you need the details to really move on then get them. Don't NOT get them to protect your W, and in the process not allow yourself true recovery. I am sure she would rather go through that painful moment if it meant giving you some closure and ability to move on in recovery. Just don't want to see you years down the road still pondering, ya know?

As far as the 'whys' I think to some level that is important, as in what was missing from our M at the time/what EN's were not being met to create an environment that was ripe for an affair. It is part of the process of figuring out how to better meet each other's EN's and also establish boundaries and EP's. But, the more selfish 'why did you do this to me? was it worth it?' type questions, well, there is never a good answer to those. I can tell you from brow beating experience, you WANT some kind of rational answer to those and there will never be one. It's just a manner of brow beating, nothing else, IMO. BTDT, not gonna do it anymore.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/10/12 01:36 PM
I have heard BS's on this forum talk about how their imagination was way more wild than the reality, once they heard the details. For them hearing the details was the better option.

As far as protecting your W, although commendable, realize that having to embarrassingly detail to you all of the things she did, is a consequence to having an A and part of just compensation, if that is what you need. Don't protect her at your own cost, I guess is what I'm saying.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/11/12 09:04 PM
Very good advice, Unwritten!!!

WLE, you'd be surprised how many of us are triggered during SF. I'd venture to say 99% of BSs/FBSs. It's very difficult. There are different tactics to dealing with it but of course, time is the best answer.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/12/12 09:11 PM
Thanks unwritten, If the thoughts persist, and right now they are not, I may have to ask for more.
Sunny, time has been my friend.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/13/12 03:35 PM
I am starting to understand that though the horrible memories will never go completely away , thankfully the intense pain has.
I can dredge it up but it takes a concentrated effort.
FWW has bought into our need for extended UA and we are averaging over 20hrs. a week now. That has helped me control my thoughts. I read just today on another thread how that seems to be the case for other BS's.
We have gained so much of our lost intimacy that I have gotten more than I asked for, in a good way!
FWW's O&H about her time is such a part of her now that I can't believe that this is the same person I was married to a year ago.
I feel like I can breath again.
You know that feeling where someone is moving or doing exactly what you had hoped they would. You don't want to make a sound or make a false step so as not to stop their progress and have them retreat.
That's where I am now.
I got home from a meeting and FWW mentioned she had been reading more SAA as we talked about our evening apart. She gets that this is important to me. LB$ big time!
I know we have many more issues left to workout and I will probably be back tomorrow asking you guys for help but just wanted to post some good news!

Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/13/12 04:11 PM
That's great! UA time is CRITICAL, and makes all the difference to your attitudes, intimacy, and overall recovery. I am so happy to hear you're prioritizing it and it is clearly paying off!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/18/12 05:20 PM
I have been looking for POJA discussions about RC. I know Dr. Harley says to try something new until you have mastered it before you give up on a RA.
What if it is a RA you have done in the past and did for decades but have NO interest in doing any more but S does?
Was told by FWW there would be resentment if she had to stop. It will cut into our UA time greatly.
We are brainstorming but have not found a win-win yet.
FWW knows this RA is a trigger for me and after this weekend we also need to go over our EP's again if she does do this RA. FWW forgets about her OS boundaries while doing this RA.

Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/18/12 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Good advice about writing down what I am told. Thank you. My
Her only concern was about me asking her for PA details. Said she did not want to have to recite to me those details and did not want to go back there in her mind.

I never asked her those type of questions after I read her list.

I should have but even after all the heart ache and pain she had caused me I could not bring myself to hurt her by asking my questions.


FWW's fog lifted with in hours of me confronting her on D-day. I just shelved that line of questioning for her sake.
They have only recently crept back into my mind and only during SF of all times!!

Sounds like things are starting to go well for you which is great.

In SAA, Dr. Harley encourages BS's to get all of their questions answered and never bring up the A again.

Asking 'why' may not be fruitful but understanding the conditions which made the A possible is CRITICAL to implimenting EP's to prevent it from happening again.

I chose not to get all the 'gory details' of the A but I am very glad all my questions were answered so I don't have any 'unsolved business' so to speak down the road.

By not asking quesitons you think you are protecting her feelings but what you are really doing is burring thoughts which most likely will rear their ugly heads down the road.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/18/12 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I have been looking for POJA discussions about RC. I know Dr. Harley says to try something new until you have mastered it before you give up on a RA.
What if it is a RA you have done in the past and did for decades but have NO interest in doing any more but S does?
Was told by FWW there would be resentment if she had to stop. It will cut into our UA time greatly.
We are brainstorming but have not found a win-win yet.
FWW knows this RA is a trigger for me and after this weekend we also need to go over our EP's again if she does do this RA. FWW forgets about her OS boundaries while doing this RA.

You definitely need to keep brainstorming and to work on POJA with this issue.

Dr. H explains that there are 2 kinds of resentment. What your wife is describing is her resentment for not getting to do something she wants to do. You, on the other hand, would have resentment towards her for doing something you don't want to do. Guess which one is worse and depletes the love bank more? YOUR kind, in this situation. In other words, in this scenario, it would be better to not do the activity because that is the lesser of the 2 LBs and withdraws less units.

I'm very short on time at the moment or I'd find you all the correct terminology. I will try later!



Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/19/12 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
There are two kinds of resentment: (1) Resentment due to something one of you DID to the other that was hurtful, and (2) resentment due to something you DIDN'T do for yourself that you would have liked, but would have hurt your spouse. Your husband has the first kind of resentment because you had an affair three months into your marriage. What you did hurt him. You have the second kind of resentment because you now feel obligated to avoid seeing a friend who is a threat to your husband.
Following The Policy of Joint Agreement When You're Very Incompatible

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/21/12 12:26 PM
20/SD Thanks guys!
FWW and I had a great conversation Wednesday night and she understands that I need to go back and put to rest some issues I tried to go around but can't without addressing them.
I told her I would start out with a soft pitch question and not throw the hard ones to began with. All we need is one more night and we can leave this completely in the past.
I am being VERY careful with what I ask her for!
BH,
Thanks for the link. I will see if FWW will read it with me.
FWW did say that she would not do the RA this year if that is what it took .We talked about maybe only for a certain amount of time each week and be diligent with our UA time.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/27/12 09:09 PM
I have not written anything for a few days just reading.
I am really bummed with our UA time this week.
We never had anymore talks about our RA.I kind of let it coast to see if FWW would pick up the ball and run awhile. She didn't.
I have agreed to have RC with FWW just don't have a need of my own.
If FWW getting her up to speed on MB is what I want. SLOW going right now.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/27/12 11:52 PM
WLE, you and your wife need to keep in mind that UA time is the cornerstone of recovery! Nothing else happens without it.

It's OK that you are leading recovery but your wife needs to do her part too, of course. It's up to you to tell her what you need; that part of just compensation for her affair is making every effort to follow the plan of recovery. If she is not doing so you risk a false recovery. Reading the materials isn't enough - she's gotta be an active participant. AND...it's up to you to tell her that you NEED her to do so.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/28/12 01:05 AM
Quote
I am really bummed with our UA time this week.
This is the problem. I didn't read the rest of your post because I didn't need to. Address your UA time.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/28/12 01:18 AM
Have you seen this?
The critical importancce of UA time
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/30/12 06:53 PM
BH
Wow that was a great thread. I re-read it again today.Thank you.
MB
I am not going to let it slip again. UA is more important to me than I realized.
SD
We were doing so well that I thought it would not make that much of a difference, it did.

We spent the weekend with the grand kids and struggled to get our UA time in but were able to.

FWW gave me the best birthday present ever. Took the day off just to spend it with me! That was a good sign FWW is getting what I need from her.
I am learning how to let know her what I need with out LB's. I STILL fight with my P Lying. I see from the thread that BH linked that I have to continue to slay that beast and all of the other junk on my side of the street.
I never want to have a NORMAL marriage again! I need to have the 20 plus hours a week still it seems.
I noticed that if our UA stays high I don't dwell on what FWW did or is not doing but just keep my attention on her.

Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/30/12 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I noticed that if our UA stays high I don't dwell on what FWW did or is not doing but just keep my attention on her.

EXACTLY! I can always tell if our UA time is not high enough. It's the only time anymore that I even think about the past or am disgruntled.

Sometimes we can get enough on the weekly basis but if I have not had that quality time for a day or two, despite the high weekly #, I can tell!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/01/12 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
BH
Wow that was a great thread. I re-read it again today.Thank you.
MB
I am not going to let it slip again. UA is more important to me than I realized.
SD
We were doing so well that I thought it would not make that much of a difference, it did.

We spent the weekend with the grand kids and struggled to get our UA time in but were able to.

FWW gave me the best birthday present ever. Took the day off just to spend it with me! That was a good sign FWW is getting what I need from her.
I am learning how to let know her what I need with out LB's. I STILL fight with my P Lying. I see from the thread that BH linked that I have to continue to slay that beast and all of the other junk on my side of the street.
I never want to have a NORMAL marriage again! I need to have the 20 plus hours a week still it seems.
I noticed that if our UA stays high I don't dwell on what FWW did or is not doing but just keep my attention on her.


Have you sat down and scheduled your UA time out for each week?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/01/12 12:32 PM
BH
Short answer... NO we have not.

We were just spending all of our time together as UA time. I guess I got spoiled.
When other things/ people started encroaching our UA time instead of scheduling UA time we thought we could get by with less now.
Did not schedule it, did not have it. You would think there might be a connection. blush
I have not turned on the TV in over a month. I have not watched a single football game this season. The time I used to spend on sports and my other RA I would rather spend with MEE (FWW)
I am happy doing most of MEE's RA with her. There is still the one we have yet to POJA.
Thank you again for all the help.
SD
I am still learning how to live outside of our bubble and apply MB in the real world!I had hoped it would pause while we worked on our MR!! MEE reminded me she was under the weather at the beginning of the week doh2
And she still has that J-O-B thing she does five days a week.

I heard that the OFFICIAL referees are back in the NFL.
You guys are like my ref's and I take to heart every flag thrown in my direction!






Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/02/12 03:31 AM
Here's some tips about bringing the MB principles out of the bubble and into the real world:

Learn to use the lingo: it feels a little unnatural at first, but the more the two of you talk in the right terms about everyday things, the easier it becomes and the more you will utilize the principles. It isn't that you can't practice "POJA" (for instance) without using the term POJA, BUT... I find it helps, at least in the beginning. Remember, you are learning new habits. The lingo helps the two of you have shared terminology to understand each other and enable better communication. (Note: this does NOT mean you use the terms to slam each other. Total LB!)

Along the same lines, Dr. H recommends you practice on a daily basis on small things, especially POJA. The better you get at the small things, the easier the bigger issues will be.

It's easy to go with the mindset of "we get enough time together - we don't need to schedule UA" but don't make that mistake anymore. Remember, your goal is not just time together, but QUALITY time..for BOTH of you.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/05/12 01:04 PM
Mee and I have been discussing our UA and she is feeling a lot of anxiety over time.

She wants to keep our UA high, keep reading here on MB, finish SAA and read LB.

Her concern is when she is at home with me and reading her book she feels as though she is ignoring me.

I am thinking that the high I get from just seeing her wanting to grasp the concepts and putting in the time and effort even though not UNDIVIDED ATTENTION will be tolerable.

I have offered to hold her as she reads , set beside her or one of my favorites, brush her long hair.

Well, that last one may not be such a good idea for just reading.

Since MEE only wears her hair long because she knows I am nuts about it that way.

I thought it would ease her mind while she was reading knowing I was still connected to her.
Any ideas on this?

We are still trying to POJA a new RA that can be done together.
Tough sledding so far.

MEE is going to be off for the next 5 days and we are planning on investing most our time in "us"... and a little into the grand babies!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/05/12 04:57 PM
Reading the materials should definitely be a priority! Is there not time enough for her to read AND the two of you have high UA time? Or how about reading together, outloud?

Brainstorm about EVERYTHING under the sun on the RA!

How about shooting being that your wife is big on "tough" stuff? I was shocked how much I liked it when my H took me to the shooting range AND found I am a great shot! I didn't shoot as well as him but I did better than his friend who served 10 years in the marines! smile
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/05/12 05:28 PM
H and I used to do our homework assignments as part of our UA time. However, I too felt like us reading on our own but side by side, or filling out worksheets in that manner, etc. was not good UA time, because we weren't really interacting even though we were working on MB materials. We decided to have assignments for our scheduled UA time, like have assignment 3 due on Thursday, then use our UA time to review, discuss what we thought, discuss the worksheets, etc. So we individually worked on the assignment reading and work, then came together for discussion/implementation (which counted as UA). That works good.

Do you and your wife share any hobbies together? That is what saves us on RC time, we spend a lot of time together doing hobbies. I know you said your wife was outdoorsy, are you too? Can you pick a hobby, like Sunny said shooting, fishing, hunting, ATVing, camping, etc. that is outdoorsy that you can regularly do together? Or even just hiking, free and keeps you in good shape:)
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/07/12 11:01 AM
SD
Defiantly brainstorming our RA. Thank you,I'm still learning how.
I am willing to do do any RA that we can do together but that is where we are stuck right now.The "together" part. MEE's favorite RA she does alone.I don't like the RA because you have to do it alone.
I have nothing but bad associations with this RA and don't want to continue.

Getting MEE to discuss what she is reading has been a big help. Tells me she needs time to digest what she has read but wants to go over with me what she has gleaned. Says she's not ready to post yet though.
UW
I think we should try it together at first so MEE can get up to speed with where I am and we can implement all of it. Thank you for your incite on this.
MEE and I don't have many hobbies we share. IB was the monster that started us down this slippery slope.
The two of us have been doing our own thing for so long that we are having to rediscover who the other is.
We have been sitting on the banks of a couple of rivers fishing while trying to think of other RA's we can do together.
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/10/12 03:40 PM
A lot of times we miss the point of UA time. The point is to build POSITIVE, PAVLOVIAN associations.

Remember Pavlov's dogs? He trained them to salivate at the sound of a bell. UA time is supposed to elicit a similar response to the presence of your mate: you see/hear/smell/touch them, and experience overwhelming attraction.

A lot of times, I see posters here deep-dive into what is and is not UA time. Ultimately, the question you should ask yourself is "Is what we are doing together building positive associations to the presence of one another?"

We like to think romantic love is magical. It's not. It's chemistry, it's trainable, and it's measurable. You can train the response through positive associations (and a lack of negative associations), and you can measure the strength of the response using a FMRI machine and a sequence of images.

The other important bit is that UA time does not always have to be equal enjoyment for both partners. Say you go out to dinner together, and both order something new you've never tried before. One of you really likes what you ordered, the other is kind of indifferent. Is your UA time invalidated because one of you had a less-good-time than the other? Of course not! You're still spending time together doing something you enjoy, even though that level of enjoyment is not equal.

So if you want reading time to be UA time, change around your approach. For instance, my wife likes to have her feet rubbed. While she's reading, I'll often meet that need for her. From my perspective, I'm betting my enjoyment is a little less than hers -- I'm giving the foot rub, not getting anything in return at that moment -- but it doesn't make the UA time not UA time.

Similarly, we will go to the gym together. Now, she's not hovering over me, spotting me while I lift weights. Nor are we right next to one another the whole time. But we see one another, touch hands, pass each other on the indoor track, etc. The fact we are there and together during an activity which releases a tremendous amount of endorphins is enough to make it powerful UA time even though you are not right there on top of each other the whole time. In fact, taking up fitness activities together is one of Dr. Harley's most-recommended approaches to building Love Bank balances quickly! We've talked about it, and our enjoyment levels differ. I really get a rush out of seeing my wife sweaty & working out. She's glad for the fitness results, but the whole sweaty-man-thing seems to be a bit less of a turn-on.

I guess what I'm saying here is "be flexible". There will be activities in which you engage that are a bit more one-sided than others. It's possible to have enthusiastic agreement even when one of you is a little less enthusiastic than the other!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/10/12 05:29 PM
DNM
Thank you for reminding me what the UA is for. I am too much of a rookie to quote per line from your excellent post but my concern is

1.What if an RA is associated W/ start of A and has other bad associations.
2. Already know that RA is something I dislike.

Enjoying our time together is what I am seeking. We have to be together and that is where we are stuck.
This RA is done alone so no time together.

I started doing this RA again with MEE after a few years of not wanting to. The very year I started doing the RA W/ MEE again she started her PA. In my traumatized mind the two events are connected.
We have POJA'd the time MEE will spend on it and have EG'd not to allow it to cut into our UA.
I am fine helping MEE with all the prep for RA and considering what you have pointed out to me getting a R feeling about me from W for helping her get preps done is a good thing!
Did not look at it that way... Thanks for that!

As far as me doing the RA.
Don't enjoy it.
If I am going to have to do something by myself then I want it to be something enjoyable to me.
I did it anyway last year and had hoped to find another RA this year.

Being alone together is how we spent way to much time in our broken marriage!

Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/10/12 08:05 PM
So there are a couple of different approaches to negative associations with an activity or location.

The heart of Dr. Harley's approach to triggers boils down to a catch-phrase he often uses on the radio: "it's easier to change behavior than to change emotions". This pithy quip summarizes a lot of the approach. For instance, you typically avoid angry outbursts altogether if you and your spouse never engage in demands or disrespectful judgments. Thus there's little need for "anger management", as you learn to channel frustration into respectful requests and thoughtful responses.

The first approach to triggers is "avoidance". It's the more common approach Dr. Harley advocates. That is, if it's reasonable, you avoid the activity or location that causes triggers. This is the heart of his "move to another state" suggestion after an affair. You avoid the locations that remind you of the affair by moving, therefore you trigger much less.

The second approach is "saturation". This is only used if the trigger is nearly impossible to avoid, such as "every time I drive" or "whenever we go out to eat". Saturation can be very effective. You basically build so many positive associations with an activity or place that it can no longer cause triggers. It's very difficult to do the first few times.

The approach Dr. Harley advocates for recreational activity is clearly described in "His Needs, Her Needs". To sum up, you each write a very large list (I would aim for at least fifty, not just a few!) of recreational activities you enjoy OR THINK YOU MIGHT ENJOY, along with a ranking of how much you enjoy them or think you might enjoy them. You then compare lists, and create a shared list with rankings. Pick the top five where the combined score is the highest. Those are your five Recreational Activities which the two of you engage in together.

Now, you can still have recreational activities separately! There are 168 hours in a week. 56 hours are sleep. About the same for work/commute. 15 hours a week for UA time, 15 hours a week for family time, and about six hours a week eating meals together (or so). This usually leaves about 20 hours a week to do with WHATEVER YOU WANT that your spouse enthusiastically agrees to. Me, I mostly use that time to watch Discovery Channel and go bicycling. What you do is up to you.

Hope that helps!
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/10/12 08:36 PM
But I think he said that the RA that his wife engages in alone is a trigger to the A. So that might be one she would need to avoid.

Also, I think a WS should POJA RA's, especially those that are triggers or may make their BS feel unsafe somehow. For instance, if your wife was a shopper, and used to go shopping alone and you knew she called her AP while out shopping, then that is not something you would want her to be able to do in her 'spare time' I would think. (Also that would be a poor boundary, and possible break of EP's, maybe that is a bad example...)

Do you mind me asking what RA HAS to be done alone? I can't think of one off the top of my head, that could not be done with a partner somehow.

Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/11/12 03:16 PM
BTW, "Recreational Companionship" is usually the initialism we use in MarriageBuilders, not "RA" (Recreational Activity). RA is also used as the initialism for "Revenge Affair".

The Policy of Joint Agreement is "never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse". "anything" includes any recreational activity.

There is another approach you can use for RC. It's called "Provisional Enthusiastic Agreement". For instance, my family had never joined a fitness club before. I was genuinely enthusiastic, but my wife a bit less so. She agreed to be provisionally enthusiastic, and we signed up for a limited time. Over time, we both grew to be fully enthusiastic about it, and we continue.

Similarly, I used to HATE shopping. In the wake of my wife's affair, and seeing that shopping was very high on her list of RC activities, I decided to try approaching it from a different perspective. I would not be "shopping"; I'd be talking with my wife while we walked together, and Conversation is very high on my list of ENs. That approach works, and although I know that it's meeting much more of my wife's EN than mine, I don't *dislike* it at all anymore.

Anyway, anything you or your wife do without your partner's enthusiastic agreement is Independent Behavior. Nail that down; IB + Dishonesty == Affair...
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/11/12 06:36 PM
DNM
Great help, thank you again.

We have agreed W will limit time so as not to encroach on our UA.
I used (RA) Recreational activity instead of (RC) companionship because it is the activity W likes that I dislike. Sorry for the confusion.

What I really wanted to do is POJA a new RC but as long as W does not mind doing it ALONE I can live with it.I like the list idea I had forgotten that part.

RC is low on my EN list but I do understand it is a great way to make LB$.




Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/11/12 06:56 PM
UW
It is the associations in my mind with the start of FWW's PA and me rejoining her in this RC.

Dates and events still get my mind rattled. My thoughts are... "We were doing this RC while you had an A!"

IB being our big LB this RC was about the ONLY RC we were doing together.

Time might erase this.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/11/12 07:50 PM
I shouldn't even comment on this because I don't know that we are doing it the 'right' way, you know I am just trudging along in recovery too. But we have had some IB issues too. H is a big hunter, and although I like to go along to watch him work the dogs I do not carry a gun. I have my own hobby that is primarily mine. However, in the last two years I have gotten more involved in his hunting, asking if I can get my own gun and learn how to shoot. He will always have his family (men only) hunting weekends, but as far as bird hunting I would like to start doing that together. He is ELATED to have me even express the desire to learn how to shoot and hunt birds and join him in this hobby. And that in turn makes me excited to do it with him. Meanwhile, last year I invited him into my hobby and he actually got pretty involved in it. This year I am doing it more, but he comes with whenever possible as a part of our RC time together. In any case, hunting is still HIS hobby and something he is more passionate about, and the other hobby is mine, but we have really started to become involved in the other persons hobby as much as possible.

For me it is exciting to spend time with him doing something he is passionate about. His passion for his hobbies is one of the reasons I fell in love with him! And, he looks so good in that camo... Hrm but I digress. It isn't necessarily the hunting that excites me, as much as being with him while he is doing something he absolutely LOVES. I guess that goes back to the association, he will learn to associate ME with that euphoric feeling while he is doing that which he loves to do.

So, definitely look for new and exciting ways you can spend RC time. There is an RC form on this website somewhere, I really need to learn how to link things. It has almost EVERYTHING on it, and it is an easy way to get ideas that you might not always think about. But I do encourage you to embrace each others current passions and incorporate yourselves into them as much as possible. It really does make huge LB deposits when you pair the two.
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/11/12 08:13 PM
@unwritten: Ask and you shall receive.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4505_rei.html
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 04:35 AM
UW
You two seem to be working it out very well. We have been doing other RC that W likes.
I was a huge outdoors man when we were first married.
We Hunted,camped, hiked, fished, avid shooters, white water rafted loved everything outdoors.
Can't do those to the extent I used to after my injury. Agreed to try some again to a lesser extent and intensity. Pain kind of took the fun out of most of them for me though.
W still loves everything to do with the outdoors, especially deer hunting.
Setting in the woods in the cold with artificial body parts is not fun.I had stopped going but trying to reconnect with her I decided to give it a try again.
This is the RC I have been trying to POJA. If W wants to do it alone that is fine by me as long as she DOES IT ALONE and our UA time does not suffer.
One of our ideas is to get out of our club and she hunt family property.Not as much of an area to hunt but no OS hunting buddies either.
DNM
What I was trying to do was provisionally enthusiastically agree to try RC again. After a year, Still don't enjoy it and still have the association hang ups.Not going to be something we do for UA or RC.
Pre-MB I did not think twice about W hanging out at the camp talking with OS hunting buddies.W's EP won't allow for that so we are seeking a compromise we can both EA to. My problem is I know how much she loves it and don't want to cause resentment to build in her or me.
MC ain't for the faint of heart is it?

Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 07:03 AM
Nope, it isn't!

A woman who likes to deer hunt, that's awesome!

Well in my own hobby, which is done predominantly by men, I have had to make many concessions to make sure we are following EP's and maintaining good boundaries. I used to do overnight trips to do this hobby, now I would/could not do this without H present of course. I, like you are asking your wife to do, do it ALONE instead of with male counterparts, and sometimes I have to rearrange things to accomplish that (that is if I can't do it with H). Yes, life does change when you become aware of what a protected M is (by means of the school of hard knocks). One could see it as sacrificing, but I see it as protecting the most important person in my life, and my M, which is more important to me than any OS that I have done hobbies with.

I actually have a very reclusive side and like to be alone, so that also makes it fine for me:)

From your post I see that you are both very outdoorsy, so that is a GREAT thing. H and I are also, although he does more of the hunting, and I do other unnamed outdoor hobbies, since we both share a passion for the outdoors we highly respect and support each others things and try and find ways to overlap them, etc. There are so many couples that have very opposite interests, so I always feel fortunate about the fact that our root interest which is the outdoors is in line.

Is there a way you can enjoy deer hunting again without the pain of sitting outside in the cold? Could you look into some kind of heated deer stand? Is there a different kind of hunting that would be more conducive to your physical limitations that you could try together?

Not to the same level as you, but H also has been more physically challanged over the last couple of years. We used to do backpack camping for instance, hauling our 50-70lb backpacks, 3 kids and 2 dogs several miles into the north woods to camp. We also did canoe trips into very remote areas. But because he has had a lot of back problems and other physical issues, this year we did a state park trip where we could load a canoe right into a chain of lakes from the car (no carrying the packs, no portages), and also some cart in sites. Not as remote and you know I miss the more extreme challenges, but it has allowed us to compromise, still do the things we love together, but accommodate H's physical barriers.

I think you seem to have a GREAT foundation to work with to find some RC that will be exciting to both of you.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 01:30 PM
Another angle in which to approach this is, if there's an activity one of us likes but the other does not, perhaps it's something that can be done with one of our kids. Dr. H. mentions that in that capacity, it can become something that meets FC as well. There's a hobby that H likes that I don't, but my sons do - so they do it together. Same for me, with my daughter. (Well, when she's home from college.)

We've never had extended family around but obviously, it could be a family member other than a child as well - as long your UA time together is a priority and it's POJA'd.

Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 04:28 PM
Great advice SunnyD. Unfortunately my daughter likes to shoe shop, blaaagccchhhhh.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 06:34 PM
UW
Great advice thank you. I was struck with a thought last night after I posted here. What I am posting about now compared to why I started this thread...

THANK YOU MB!!!

I just need to put on my big boy (camouflage) pants and enjoy what W and I do have now.
Congrats on your anniversary! We just spent the past few days celebrating ours also! Considering the darkness where all of us here have come from every anniversary is special.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 06:42 PM
Sunny
Hope you had a great time with your DD!
Somehow Daniel Boone and Annie Oakley gave birth to two girl'ie cheerleaders! laugh

Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 07:08 PM
I know right, how does that happen! H and I have money on our little guy who is 5, we think he will be the outdoorsman to carry on our traditions.

At least my DD can get around in the shoe store with a compass, and if they lose power in the mall she can build a fire from scratch to stay warm.

Thank you for the anniversary wishes! Not so long ago, in April/May when I started my thread, I talked about how much I despised our wedding rings because they reminded me of the joke that I considered our marriage (as well as other trigger type things which I shall leave in the dark where they belong). I wanted H to buy us new rings, yet I was resentful for having to spend the money on new rings just because he tainted them. All in all, our rings held nothing but resentment and bitterness, as far as I was concerned. I would have been glad to accidently lose them.

Seems like AGES ago, even though it has only been a few short months. Now I look at our rings and regard them with honor. I think of our wedding and it brings happy tears to my eyes. That day I did not know what commitment was, and FOR SURE H, did not know what commitment was. We were just going through the motions, oblivious to what being MARRIED even meant. Yep, we F'd it up pretty good. But here we are, better than ever, with new knowledge and a new understanding that the vast majority of people are never blessed to have. Our rings represent to me now true love, true commitment, true honor.

And anniversaries are good, when you feel this way.

Wowser. Never thought I'd say any of that. What happened to that little devil of resentment? I don't even remember what he looks like most days.

Still a work in progress, but definitely progress smile

Sorry for the TJ.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by unwritten
Great advice SunnyD. Unfortunately my daughter likes to shoe shop, blaaagccchhhhh.

HA HA! Wanna know what's funny? My H loves to shoe shop! He likes picking out shoes that he wants me to wear. It's quite fun. wink

Sorry for the T/J WLE, but it had to be noted. lol
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/12 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Sunny
Hope you had a great time with your DD!
Somehow Daniel Boone and Annie Oakley gave birth to two girl'ie cheerleaders! laugh

Life's funny sometimes!

And yes, had a great time with my DD last weekend. She was a cheerleader for 10 years! She competed as well as did school cheer. Cheered in college her first 2 years before giving it up for sorority life. She was on one of the best teams in the country when she competed - was even interviewed on ESPN since she was the team captain for the #1 team (after day 1 of competition) in her division at "Worlds" which is the best of the best in the country.

We had a lot of fun - lots of mother/daughter time - during those years. The sad part was, I didn't get in UA time with my hubby those years. SO, DD and I ended up very close while hubby and I drifted apart somewhat. NOT good!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/12 04:25 PM
I am in awe of how far my FWW has come in our MR. Gave her testimony before the entire church this weekend and my jaw hit the floor.She pulled no punches and exposed her self to a whole new set of people. Granted they are all pulling for her and us but still took a lot of moxie to have that many people see you at your worst.
Her remorse is so deep and genuine that I feel as though she will stop at nothing to R our M.
We corrected most of the miss steps we took early in R and have gotten back to true MB R plan.
I will never be able to have an ordinary marriage again nor would I want one.
I also never thought that I would be able to look at her again as I do now 14 months after D-Day.
More in love with her now than ever before.
We have POJA'd our RC and have moved on to other areas where we sill have to improve. We are about to go through 5 steps for romantic love. Can't wait to dive into that one with her.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/12 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I am in awe of how far my FWW has come in our MR. Gave her testimony before the entire church this weekend and my jaw hit the floor.She pulled no punches and exposed her self to a whole new set of people. Granted they are all pulling for her and us but still took a lot of moxie to have that many people see you at your worst.
Her remorse is so deep and genuine that I feel as though she will stop at nothing to R our M.
We corrected most of the miss steps we took early in R and have gotten back to true MB R plan.
I will never be able to have an ordinary marriage again nor would I want one.
I also never thought that I would be able to look at her again as I do now 14 months after D-Day.
More in love with her now than ever before.
We have POJA'd our RC and have moved on to other areas where we sill have to improve. We are about to go through 5 steps for romantic love. Can't wait to dive into that one with her.

That's awesome!!!!!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/12 02:22 AM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Originally Posted by wle2
I am in awe of how far my FWW has come in our MR. Gave her testimony before the entire church this weekend and my jaw hit the floor.She pulled no punches and exposed her self to a whole new set of people. Granted they are all pulling for her and us but still took a lot of moxie to have that many people see you at your worst.
Her remorse is so deep and genuine that I feel as though she will stop at nothing to R our M.
We corrected most of the miss steps we took early in R and have gotten back to true MB R plan.
I will never be able to have an ordinary marriage again nor would I want one.
I also never thought that I would be able to look at her again as I do now 14 months after D-Day.
More in love with her now than ever before.
We have POJA'd our RC and have moved on to other areas where we sill have to improve. We are about to go through 5 steps for romantic love. Can't wait to dive into that one with her.

That's awesome!!!!!
hurray
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/12 02:28 AM
So happy for you wle2!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/12 03:08 PM
Thank you guys for all of your help getting me here! I had forgotten how much fun it is to date my W! We sat out last night by our fire pit and watched for shooting stars holding hands and talking.
These are the kinds of things we used to do 30 years ago and slowly over time stopped. For some unknown reason we forgot how to do them with each other. It is the end of October and I have not watched a single football game! I would rather sit and talk to my Bride, (about deer hunting of course! laugh )
She spoke about my reaction to her when I found out (plan A) and how I have made her fall in love with me again. ( meeting her EN) I have said it before but to me it is worth repeating, God lead me to find MB. If I had not discovered MB before I discovered her A this big ol' Georgia redneck probably would have gotten into a lot of trouble.
I was reading another thread this week end and heard mentioned the "infidelity diet" Oh man, I lost 80 pounds over the last 14 months! I have people come up to me and ask what's your secret I want to get on it. I just tell them no you don't it's called the Psalms 102 diet!
Again I can't thank you guys here enough for all the great advice.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/12 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Thank you guys for all of your help getting me here! I had forgotten how much fun it is to date my W! We sat out last night by our fire pit and watched for shooting stars holding hands and talking.
These are the kinds of things we used to do 30 years ago and slowly over time stopped. For some unknown reason we forgot how to do them with each other. It is the end of October and I have not watched a single football game! I would rather sit and talk to my Bride, (about deer hunting of course! laugh )
She spoke about my reaction to her when I found out (plan A) and how I have made her fall in love with me again. ( meeting her EN) I have said it before but to me it is worth repeating, God lead me to find MB. If I had not discovered MB before I discovered her A this big ol' Georgia redneck probably would have gotten into a lot of trouble.
I was reading another thread this week end and heard mentioned the "infidelity diet" Oh man, I lost 80 pounds over the last 14 months! I have people come up to me and ask what's your secret I want to get on it. I just tell them no you don't it's called the Psalms 102 diet!
Again I can't thank you guys here enough for all the great advice.

This post makes me smile. A LOT!
smile

Maybe you should get your watch interested in football. I LOVE football!!!! I'm part girlie girl and part tomboy, I think. LOL

You just have to find a way to get her emotionally vested in a team! lol

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/24/12 01:22 AM
Sunny
She loves football also we just love different teams!

I guess we will watch one for sure. Her team is playing my team.

This might not be such a good idea for a couple in MR grin
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/24/12 01:28 AM
You could always arrange favoured UA time activities according to who wins! smile
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/24/12 12:11 PM
Karmasrose

Great Idea! W did not like my offer though.
I said if my team wins she wears ONLY my team's jersey that night.
She asked what if her team wins? I said you can wear ONLY your team.s jersey! grin
Sounds like a win win to me!

Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/24/12 03:43 PM
Strip football. When her team makes a point you must remove an article of clothing, when you team makes a point she must remove an article of clothing. How about POJAing that?
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/24/12 05:13 PM
My buddy and his wife recently got into MarriageBuilders. She hated that he played Airsoft on Saturdays; when asked, she said it was because he wasn't home to clean to be ready for Sunday. So they agreed he wouldn't Airsoft on Saturdays until they brainstormed a solution.

After a lot of back-and forth and ideas thrown around, they ended up with the idea that they would clean together on Thursday nights (Fridays are date night) for 2-3 hours. But he wasn't entirely enthusiastic about it. The final brainstorm was that he was extremely enthusiastic about cleaning together on Thursday nights as long as she was topless! And he goes to Airsoft games on Saturdays.
Posted By: markos Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/24/12 05:25 PM
Woohoo! I like POJA/negotiation stories like that!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/02/12 07:28 PM
FWW took off for several days and we have been inseparable, except when in her deer stand. All was great until in passing FWW tells me one of her hunting forum buddies sent her a message.
I did know she was still on this site posting but didn't know she was sending and receiving private messages.
I must have had that you just stabbed me look because she started telling me that her pass words are the same as her other accounts.
I told her I'm not OK with this and she knows she HAS to take EP's and sending private messages to OS friends is one of them.
I also told her I am not comfortable with her sending messages to OS friends.
I have been all over the site and truly believe it was just an innocent slip on her part and one I missed when this all began.
All of the great progress we have made up to now and yet I must not have gotten it across to her that this is a problem for me.
I can't get her to post here but she will spend time on that site chatting up some guy about hunting! Is it January yet?
We have to set down again and go over this before I lose my mind.
We POJA'ed the RC I guess we also have to do the same with FWW sending messages to OS RC friends on-line too. I don't know how this is going to turn out since FWW has no female RC friends.
Am I over reacting?





Posted By: Littlebit3 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/02/12 07:32 PM
I don't think so. Just this little slip can turn into something much more. She has to be the one that make sure she sticks with the EP's - all of them. If you let her think this little slip is ok, what it to make her think others aren't?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/02/12 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
FWW took off for several days and we have been inseparable, except when in her deer stand. All was great until in passing FWW tells me one of her hunting forum buddies sent her a message.
I did know she was still on this site posting but didn't know she was sending and receiving private messages.
I must have had that you just stabbed me look because she started telling me that her pass words are the same as her other accounts.
I told her I'm not OK with this and she knows she HAS to take EP's and sending private messages to OS friends is one of them.
I also told her I am not comfortable with her sending messages to OS friends.
I have been all over the site and truly believe it was just an innocent slip on her part and one I missed when this all began.
All of the great progress we have made up to now and yet I must not have gotten it across to her that this is a problem for me.
I can't get her to post here but she will spend time on that site chatting up some guy about hunting! Is it January yet?
We have to set down again and go over this before I lose my mind.
We POJA'ed the RC I guess we also have to do the same with FWW sending messages to OS RC friends on-line too. I don't know how this is going to turn out since FWW has no female RC friends.
Am I over reacting?
No you aren't.

What did she say when you told her you didn't like it?

Why is she on social networks? Was this not one of her EPs? What were your condition if she was to break an EP?
Posted By: markos Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/02/12 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
We POJA'ed the RC I guess we also have to do the same with FWW sending messages to OS RC friends on-line too.

I don't know what you mean by "POJA FWW sending messages to OS RC friends on-line." You are not enthusiastic about it, so she won't do it any more, right? If the answer to that question is not "right," then she's not following POJA, and you can't "POJA" anything.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/02/12 11:24 PM
BH
She seemed up set with her self and said she didn't think about it when she did it. I have all of her pass words but did not know about this site. She and I agreed we would have access to each others social networks. It was more of her excited about her hobby and not thinking.
It was more of a congratulation to this guy but we are going to have to discuss this more.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/02/12 11:51 PM
markos
You're right.
I don't think I will ever be OK with that anymore. I was just taken off guard when she told me about it. She and I had discussed that this type of behavior was not mainlining safe boundaries.
She does not see this as being the same as the other sites.
I do and I guess I was just being sarcastic when I said POJA her talking to OS RC.





Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/03/12 11:25 AM
Littlebit3
You are so right. Something MUCH MORE almost always starts out small and friendly.
I could tell by her reaction she did not think that it crossed the line. I did not mind her reading and posting it was the private message she sent that is the problem.
I got lulled into complacency by how good we were doing and let my guard down.
We are going to go back over EP's and adjust. I won't be so careless again, the old familiar pain in my gut reminds me to be diligent. Communicate but verify!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/03/12 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Littlebit3
You are so right. Something MUCH MORE almost always starts out small and friendly.
I could tell by her reaction she did not think that it crossed the line. I did not mind her reading and posting it was the private message she sent that is the problem.
I got lulled into complacency by how good we were doing and let my guard down.
We are going to go back over EP's and adjust. I won't be so careless again, the old familiar pain in my gut reminds me to be diligent. Communicate but verify!

You're doing great, WLE! So glad you didn't just brush this off and that your wife sees the need for EPs. I don't think FWS's understand how something so small can trigger such BIG negative emotions for us FBSs...but they certainly do.

It's one of those things where old habits are easy to repeat if you aren't on your guard. Thankfully you were...and she is replacing those old habits with new ones.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/03/12 04:23 PM
SD
thank you. I am still amazed how quickly the pain can come back and how shallow it lays.I will have all of my kids here including the grand kids this afternoon for my youngest DD's birthday.
It will be tonight before we can discuss it anymore.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/03/12 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
SD
thank you. I am still amazed how quickly the pain can come back and how shallow it lays.I will have all of my kids here including the grand kids this afternoon for my youngest DD's birthday.
It will be tonight before we can discuss it anymore.
Enjoy those little ones and keep us posted on your talk.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/03/12 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
SD
thank you. I am still amazed how quickly the pain can come back and how shallow it lays.I will have all of my kids here including the grand kids this afternoon for my youngest DD's birthday.
It will be tonight before we can discuss it anymore.

I understand completely. Just know that with time even the worst triggers affect you less and less.

Enjoy the kiddos!!!

When you discuss again, just focus on the solution and keep it positive.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/08/12 03:07 PM
Hey guys
It took us a few days to have our talk and the talk has lasted several days.
I let FWW know how her reverting to old habits was hurting me and our recovery. I asked her to remember that she has to be very careful on-line. She was so remorseful and apologetic stating that she did not consider my feelings and that she knows she should have.

Doing this with out LB's is a hard task. I am still learning how to communicate my thoughts w/o them.

We talked about our EP's and what she will do to tighten hers up so this will not happen again. She has given me all of her pass words and is not going to send privet messages to OS friends. The others are her phone which is along with mine left out in the open to charge and we both have access to each other's.

FWW and I have talked for the last two days and will again today. She is still reading SAA and we discussed what she had been reading so far. I tried to get her to see how important completely understanding the concepts will help make implanting them seem more natural for her.

Her love of the outdoors is what attracted me to her in the first place, well... that and legs that seemed to go right on up to her neck!!

We discussed her being on these sites. She goes there because of her passion for the outdoors.

She does understand why I'm bothered by her communicating to OS friends.Phone calls, text, social sites and e-mail all are potential hazards for her. Forgetting to delete a text conversation on POSOM's birthday is how I found out.

Her EP's are:

NC w/ POSOM for life

Never have IC w/OS friends

Access to phone and all passwords

All computer passwords

No RC w/OS, either w/me or alone

The last two are the ones we are trying to improve. She had it in her mind that since she will "NEVER" have another A she did not see all the EP's as necessary anymore.

That's what we are still discussing, EP's are for every area of her life including her hobbies. This is not a one time fix all and done, but the way we are going to care for each other and protect our marriage from now on.

She agreed with that and want's to keep me and our marriage in a safe place from now on.

Her EP's are basic and I originally included them in a letter I gave her after D-Day. FWW says she is willing to work on these to safe guard our marriage. It seems that I need to be more specific and detailed. I am still trying to get her to start her own thread for help maybe after this she will see the benefit in it.
That's where we are now.



Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/08/12 04:34 PM
She shouldn't be on those forums if she can't have the boundaries to not send private messages to OS members.

Dr. Harley says to ELIMINATE all avenues that can lead to an affair. Take away the opportunity that allows affairs to start.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/08/12 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
She shouldn't be on those forums if she can't have the boundaries to not send private messages to OS members.

Dr. Harley says to ELIMINATE all avenues that can lead to an affair. Take away the opportunity that allows affairs to start.

Agreed.

I think when FWS's are very remorseful they have it in their heads that they truly would NEVER have another affair; they've suffered the consequences of it already and think they know the dangers and would not even be tempted again.

That may actually hold true for the first year or two after reconciliation after they get through withdrawal, because there is such strong motivation on both parts to save the marriage. This is probably a large part of your wife's not truly considering EPs as being a big deal as you do, WLE. (Besides your being the one who suffered the betrayal.) However, it's important to establish those strict boundaries. After a few years into recovery, even if the marriage is better than ever, the principle still holds true that weak boundaries allowed the affair partner in. It's important to not go back to old habits!

You guys are doing the right things - just stay on track. I will add though that it seems to be taking her an awfully long time to read through the material. Maybe that should be made more of a priority than visiting outdoorsy sites. Once she gets through the books, etc... she will understand much better the ins and outs of the program and why it is necessary to keep these boundaries tight.

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/09/12 11:56 PM
BH

FWW and I discussed this at length again today and she now sees that not only is it dangerous ground for her but violates the rule of care and undermines my sense of safety.

I listened to a radio clip on enabling this week, it stung.

I am trying to correct this flaw in me but haven't done such a good job. I know she loves to read the post there, she now knows I don't want her to send ANY private messages for ANY reason to ANY OS not blood related.

It is now a part of her boundaries, No private messages to OS on outdoor forums or any other way.

Thank you

My head is on such a swivel I sometimes miss the obvious.



Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/10/12 12:23 AM
Sd
Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Had that conversation today also and she understands how important EP's are to her.

I tried to explain my concerns to her and she repeated it back to me and asked for clarification to be sure she understood.
I guess she has read more than I thought.

Her pace is killing me though. She said she will try harder to get it done so we can start the work book.

I had some baggage left over and was able to clear it out with her about what triggered me and why. I should have done all of this at the beginning but thought I could skip this step.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/10/12 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
BH

FWW and I discussed this at length again today and she now sees that not only is it dangerous ground for her but violates the rule of care and undermines my sense of safety.

I listened to a radio clip on enabling this week, it stung.

I am trying to correct this flaw in me but haven't done such a good job. I know she loves to read the post there, she now knows I don't want her to send ANY private messages for ANY reason to ANY OS not blood related.

It is now a part of her boundaries, No private messages to OS on outdoor forums or any other way.

Thank you

My head is on such a swivel I sometimes miss the obvious.
This is why we are here for you and you're doing so well.

So what will make you feel safe? That's what she needs to do.

Would you feel better if you had a joint account? With your and her name?
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/10/12 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by wle2
BH

FWW and I discussed this at length again today and she now sees that not only is it dangerous ground for her but violates the rule of care and undermines my sense of safety.

I listened to a radio clip on enabling this week, it stung.

I am trying to correct this flaw in me but haven't done such a good job. I know she loves to read the post there, she now knows I don't want her to send ANY private messages for ANY reason to ANY OS not blood related.

It is now a part of her boundaries, No private messages to OS on outdoor forums or any other way.

Thank you

My head is on such a swivel I sometimes miss the obvious.
This is why we are here for you and you're doing so well.

So what will make you feel safe? That's what she needs to do.

Would you feel better if you had a joint account? With your and her name?

This is actually a great way to solve this issue, if you are enthusiastic about it. Make up some sort of Mr&Mrs screenname with you both having full access... and this way it is totally transparent that she is married, that you are in this together, etc... This way if she does receive and PMs, it should be to the both of you and you will know it!

Set a goal together as to when she will get the material read. Even 30 minutes a day is faster than the rate she's going at now.

And yeah... no skipping steps! It never works out well when we try to do that...we end up having to go backwards before going forwards again.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/10/12 04:51 PM
Quote
I let FWW know how her reverting to old habits was hurting me and our recovery. I asked her to remember that she has to be very careful on-line.
What am I missing, wle? Why is she on these sites at all? She shouldn't be on a site that puts her in the position of communicating with other men.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/10/12 05:21 PM
I agree maritalbliss. H and I are both outdoor enthusiasts and neither of us have ever participated in online forums about our hobbies. If I have a question I might google it and come up with some forum discussion about it for the answer/opinion, but I have never had online presence anywhere but here.

Point it, its not necessary to engage in forum activity for any reason. If its not necessary then why do it at all, especially if it offers a risk to your marriage?

My H has had that attitude of, after going through all this I would NEVER have another affair, wouldn't even think about it, so it doesn't really matter if we have walls or not I just wouldn't do it. I have always told him that his attitude that he is in control is the scariest, most dangerous thing of all! When a spouse thinks they can rely on willpower, that is dangerous. Not saying your's does and that you are not doing a lot to protect your M, just referencing that mindset.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/12/12 07:30 PM
BH
A deserted island with no internet?

Short of that continue to remember she has to have boundaries w/ OS at all times.
She stated and I confirmed that I have all of her pass words and she has not tried to hide anything from me.

I don't mind the sites she is on I know about them.It is when she went past just reading and posting general, public comments to sending the private message to congratulate a guy that rattled my cage.
I didn't check that area and was disappointed she had done this. I assumed she knew this would be crossing the line. She does now.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/12/12 08:14 PM
Sd
I don't care for the outdoor forums at all and only started reading them to see what she posted after D-day.

Until I started reading on MB I had never even looked at any forum of any kind much less post anything.

I do like the idea of letting people know up front she is married though.

I told her that her pace in reading the material gives me the since of being in limbo and that is not where I want to stay.

A-men to never skipping steps! I held us back by thinking I was protecting her from something when all I was doing was prolonging the pain and retarding our recovery.

I corrected that also by going back and getting clarification on something that has bothered me for 14 months.

The original text conversation I found between FWW and POSOM was so sexually explicit there was NO WAY It could possibly have come from the woman I had been married to for 29 years.

It was.

I thought that was how they talked to each other on the phone and in person. I had to ask. She said only in her text and that was just to keep him interested in seeing her when he comes to GA. I should have asked her this in the beginning but held it back incorrectly thinking it was not a big deal.

So we spent one more tear filled afternoon poking holes in each others LB. I got it all out in that last ( HARD TALK) and am never going to bring up her A again.

There is a movie quote that captures this rule for me.

" Never get off the boat"
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/12/12 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
I let FWW know how her reverting to old habits was hurting me and our recovery. I asked her to remember that she has to be very careful on-line.
What am I missing, wle? Why is she on these sites at all? She shouldn't be on a site that puts her in the position of communicating with other men.
MB
She has been on these sites for years. I knew about them but thought she knew better than send private messages to OS members now.
They are sites where the members talk about the sport. Whats biting, whats moving in the woods, who's dog is better and post pic's of successful hunts or fishing trips etc.
When she told me she had sent the private message that's what I didn't know about. I took it to be a safe avenue for her to talk about her hobbies.
I didn't think about it that way until now. Her post have always been public so have all of the responses.
Until now.
This is not the site the A was spawned from so my pea brain did not recognize the danger until she stated that she had shot the guy a message about his deer pic's.

Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/12/12 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Sd
I don't care for the outdoor forums at all and only started reading them to see what she posted after D-day.

Until I started reading on MB I had never even looked at any forum of any kind much less post anything.

I do like the idea of letting people know up front she is married though.

I told her that her pace in reading the material gives me the since of being in limbo and that is not where I want to stay.

A-men to never skipping steps! I held us back by thinking I was protecting her from something when all I was doing was prolonging the pain and retarding our recovery.

I corrected that also by going back and getting clarification on something that has bothered me for 14 months.

The original text conversation I found between FWW and POSOM was so sexually explicit there was NO WAY It could possibly have come from the woman I had been married to for 29 years.

It was.

I thought that was how they talked to each other on the phone and in person. I had to ask. She said only in her text and that was just to keep him interested in seeing her when he comes to GA. I should have asked her this in the beginning but held it back incorrectly thinking it was not a big deal.

So we spent one more tear filled afternoon poking holes in each others LB. I got it all out in that last ( HARD TALK) and am never going to bring up her A again.

There is a movie quote that captures this rule for me.

" Never get off the boat"

Going to hold you to this!!!! wink
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/12/12 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by unwritten
I agree maritalbliss. H and I are both outdoor enthusiasts and neither of us have ever participated in online forums about our hobbies. If I have a question I might google it and come up with some forum discussion about it for the answer/opinion, but I have never had online presence anywhere but here.

Point it, its not necessary to engage in forum activity for any reason. If its not necessary then why do it at all, especially if it offers a risk to your marriage?

My H has had that attitude of, after going through all this I would NEVER have another affair, wouldn't even think about it, so it doesn't really matter if we have walls or not I just wouldn't do it. I have always told him that his attitude that he is in control is the scariest, most dangerous thing of all! When a spouse thinks they can rely on willpower, that is dangerous. Not saying your's does and that you are not doing a lot to protect your M, just referencing that mindset.
This is where we are struggling.
FWW will talk to a post about her hobbies.
Until we found MB we had such terrible IB that we had not done any of our RC together in years. To satisfy her need to talk about them she started going on these forums.
Other than this one I have never been to any forum. The RC's I enjoyed I did alone. I didn't have the need to talk to anyone about it.
FWW has a HUGE need to talk about her RC. I try to fill that need as much as possible and since I am the one who got her into it I can but I guess since I don't have a passion for the sport she seeks out those who do.
It is the private message that she sent to the OS member where I have the problem.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/16/12 01:33 PM
FWW finished SAA and as we discussed it she stated that she realizes now how her sending that message was breaking her EP's and thought it was just innocent and being friendly at the time.

FWW understands the danger and how uncomfortable I am with this type of behavior. Dropping old bad habits and replacing them with new good ones is going to take time and diligent care. Fww as been reading the forum a lot more than I thought and also from the MB site at work.

She is starting LB and we will read this one together.This will be the third time for me but I need all the extra help I can get.

I asked her again if she would consider starting her own thread so she could get even more help, for the both of us. I shared with her how I would rather have someone here who is pulling for us and our MR thump my ear when I veer off the path than hurt her or our MR by doing something harmful.

FWW said she is afraid of the responses and even though she will never know who they are she can't sit down and wright about what she did because of her guilt over hurting me and the shame of even having an A. I did not try to push her just let her know that every one on here wants to see us fully recover or they would not be here helping as much as they do.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/16/12 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
FWW finished SAA and as we discussed it she stated that she realizes now how her sending that message was breaking her EP's and thought it was just innocent and being friendly at the time.

FWW understands the danger and how uncomfortable I am with this type of behavior. Dropping old bad habits and replacing them with new good ones is going to take time and diligent care. Fww as been reading the forum a lot more than I thought and also from the MB site at work.

She is starting LB and we will read this one together.This will be the third time for me but I need all the extra help I can get.

I asked her again if she would consider starting her own thread so she could get even more help, for the both of us. I shared with her how I would rather have someone here who is pulling for us and our MR thump my ear when I veer off the path than hurt her or our MR by doing something harmful.

FWW said she is afraid of the responses and even though she will never know who they are she can't sit down and wright about what she did because of her guilt over hurting me and the shame of even having an A. I did not try to push her just let her know that every one on here wants to see us fully recover or they would not be here helping as much as they do.

Exactly: we want your marriage to succeed and be exceptional! I understand that it's hard for FWS's to post a lot of times but it is very beneficial when they do.

Us FBS's get thumped when we need it too - not just FWS's! smile

Glad she understands how she needs to keep those EPs in place.
I hope she gets through Lovebusters quickly so ya'll can move on to HNHN. Both are necessary but it felt good to both H and I when we moved into the positive things we could do for each other.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/16/12 10:41 PM
Sd

We have read HN/HN and you are so right the positive things are defiantly where the fun is!

If I think my FWW looks sexy curled up on the love seat

by the fire place

reading a book on marriage

Have spent too much time on MB or am I just old?

Probably both! smile
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/17/12 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
Sd

We have read HN/HN and you are so right the positive things are defiantly where the fun is!

If I think my FWW looks sexy curled up on the love seat

by the fire place

reading a book on marriage

Have spent too much time on MB or am I just old?

Probably both! smile

Neither! smile What's not to love???? Your spouse - learning all about how to make your marriage last forever in such a fantastical way - should put a smile on anyone!!!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/30/12 02:43 PM
Had an upstanding citizen decide that they needed my laptop more than I did.

Have been reading from my phone but could not post with my fat fingers.Dusted off the desk top!

FWW's company party is coming up and the POSOM's brother comes to the party as do other retirees.

Last year we had to endure the updates about POSOM who also used to work there. I have not discussed this with FWW.

Question:

Is talking to her about how this makes me uncomfortable violating my agreement not to bring up her A?

POSOM has not worked there in over 10 years and did not leave the company on good terms.

He won't be there and the brother does not know about his brother and my wife having an A.

As far as we know no one there does.
The A started after both the brother and POSOM had left the company. (Thank You Face Book!)

We both have enjoyed her company parties over the years but the one last year was brutal.

I don't want to hear this guy talk about POSOM. The retired brother is a nice guy but it is his brother.

Do I say anything to him or just try and avoid him altogether.

We could not go of course but I can't stand the thought of allowing this nightmare to cast a shadow over my life forever.

If we discuss this in advance we could form a plan to deal with it or even expose to the brother.

There has been NC since the one e-mail I intercepted a couple of weeks after D-day.

If the brother does not know and starts questioning his brother I don't want to have the POSOM drawn back into trying to contact FWW.

I exposed to close family and friends. I did not expose to her work.

I thought in the beginning the main reason for exposure was to kill an on going A.It died on D-day so I did not expose any further.

POSOM seems to have slithered on so I am torn about exposure to his brother. Thoughts?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/30/12 03:09 PM
I would not go to the party.

Why swim upstream?

Go out for a nice dinner instead
Posted By: unwritten Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/30/12 04:20 PM
I concur, although I understand your frustration with the A continuing to take things away from you. Maybe make it more than dinner, a night you celebrate together with a Christmas play or concert, carriage ride through the park...idk just saying you could replace one thing you looked forward to with something else to look forward to each year.

Also, I do NOT think bringing this up to your FWW violates any agreements to not talk about the A. It is not rehashing, but is dealing with a real time trigger that can easily be avoided if you discuss and agree to a different plan.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/30/12 08:11 PM
Otherwise she could be getting an affair high from hearing about OM
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/30/12 10:10 PM
How do you know OMB does not know?

You don't.

Telling the OMB to not talk about the OM in front of you could result in the OMB honoring your request. Though for him to do so would need for him to be knowledgeable on how to handle affairs an their fallout. Most likely he does not have such knowledge.

What can happen is the OMB talking and asking every one there at the party did you know if OM slept with this WW.

Best to not go to this party.
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/30/12 10:28 PM
I don't care how good the eggnog is, you have better options than going to the party.

"Dear, I would like to spend time with you privately instead of mingling at a social event with numerous people I don't know. Would you prefer Chez Zowie, or The Ruptured Calf Bar-B-Que ?"
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/02/12 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I would not go to the party.

Why swim upstream?

Go out for a nice dinner instead

Fighting the current masks the pain? I like the dinner idea though, thanks!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/02/12 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by unwritten
I concur, although I understand your frustration with the A continuing to take things away from you. Maybe make it more than dinner, a night you celebrate together with a Christmas play or concert, carriage ride through the park...idk just saying you could replace one thing you looked forward to with something else to look forward to each year.

Also, I do NOT think bringing this up to your FWW violates any agreements to not talk about the A. It is not rehashing, but is dealing with a real time trigger that can easily be avoided if you discuss and agree to a different plan.

I asked about the guest list and the brother is not coming this year.
So I guess it will be safe to go.
I think we would be better off going somewhere instead of staying home. We would both be thinking about why we were not at the party.
Thank you for the clarification unwritten. I am trying really hard not to rehash things.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/02/12 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
How do you know OMB does not know?

You don't.

Telling the OMB to not talk about the OM in front of you could result in the OMB honoring your request. Though for him to do so would need for him to be knowledgeable on how to handle affairs an their fallout. Most likely he does not have such knowledge.


What can happen is the OMB talking and asking every one there at the party did you know if OM slept with this WW.

Best to not go to this party.

Oh man that would have been a nightmare! I did not think about that,thank you!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/02/12 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I don't care how good the eggnog is, you have better options than going to the party.

"Dear, I would like to spend time with you privately instead of mingling at a social event with numerous people I don't know. Would you prefer Chez Zowie, or The Ruptured Calf Bar-B-Que ?"

NG
You are right.
I guess I was seeking validation for what I already knew. If the brother were to be there neither one of us would have enjoyed the evening.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/02/12 01:26 AM
It will never get completely out of your mind will it?

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/06/12 01:37 PM
After all the discussion we decided not to go to the company party after all.
Just found out yesterday that POSOM and brother are coming. Whew... Road, NG,UW,JK,
Thanks for saving me a nightmare!!


Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/06/12 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
After all the discussion we decided not to go to the company party after all.
Just found out yesterday that POSOM and brother are coming. Whew... Road, NG,UW,JK,
Thanks for saving me a nightmare!!


Glad that you avoided the NC buzz saw.
Posted By: Gamma Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/07/12 12:58 AM
Wle2,

By not exposing the OM you have left all these land mines for you to step on.

My experience has been that the betrayed spouse wanders around in fear while the OM or OW just goes on with their life. Exposure is more about freeing you from this punishment of the victim.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/07/12 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Wle2,

By not exposing the OM you have left all these land mines for you to step on.

My experience has been that the betrayed spouse wanders around in fear while the OM or OW just goes on with their life. Exposure is more about freeing you from this punishment of the victim.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,
Think you for explaining this to me.
I did not understand that part of exposure when I stopped so early. I thought that it was only to kill the A.
My thinking at the time was since FWW's A ended on D-day and she was running back and since POSOM was in another state I did not need to continue, mistake as I am still finding out.
I don't know what I would have done with out you guys here!
I have gone back and reread all the books and still read on other's threads.
I know we would be further along if I had not skipped steps.

Note to other's.. Stick to the plan, don't deviate!
Wle2
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/07/12 01:20 PM
I have not had any luck getting the FWW to start her own thread. She says she is not ready for the heat she thinks she will get. wink
I know it would be beneficial for the both of us were she to jump in!
She does read a lot of the threads here we have talked about them. I have assured her that all of the people here are pulling for us to make it to R and not to worry about the chastisement, I for one STILL NEED all of the help I can get!
I will keep encouraging her to start her own thread.
Besides you guys have helped me stay out of the ruff so many times she should come here just to thank all ya'll! laugh
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/07/12 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I have not had any luck getting the FWW to start her own thread. She says she is not ready for the heat she thinks she will get. wink
I know it would be beneficial for the both of us were she to jump in!
She does read a lot of the threads here we have talked about them. I have assured her that all of the people here are pulling for us to make it to R and not to worry about the chastisement, I for one STILL NEED all of the help I can get!
I will keep encouraging her to start her own thread.
Besides you guys have helped me stay out of the ruff so many times she should come here just to thank all ya'll! laugh
If she's a true FORMER wayward she shouldn't worry. It's the unrepentant wayward or the enabling betrayed that usually feel the heat.

We are nice. smile
Posted By: TexasTwoStep Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/08/12 04:14 AM
wle2,

I just read your thread.

I don't believe we will ever get it completely out of our heads. If you've ever lost a loved one, parent or child, you never forget where you were when you found out. The pain of the moment does fade.

Enjoy dinner with the wife. Company parties aren't much fun anyways.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/08/12 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by TexasTwoStep
wle2,

I just read your thread.

I don't believe we will ever get it completely out of our heads. If you've ever lost a loved one, parent or child, you never forget where you were when you found out. The pain of the moment does fade.

Enjoy dinner with the wife. Company parties aren't much fun anyways.
Thank's TTS we will!
Your story an mine are so similar. Hurts like Hell and I prolonged it by not exposing more earlier.
I have finely gotten to the point where I don't re-hash her A thanks to the fine posters here.
I also was date obsessive but that now has gone away. except for 8/10/2011
Don't worry about snooping, complete and blind trust is very , very over rated!
With EP in place and RH w/ transparency I don't need trust.
Good luck to you
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/21/12 11:41 AM
Just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas before the crazy
weekend starts.
The FWW and I going to have a great one thanks to MB!

Since both my DD's didn't listen to me when I asked them to

marry orphins smile

the FWW and I will be alone Christmas night.

She wants us to watch the video we ordered from MB.

Merry Christmas indeed!




Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/21/12 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas before the crazy
weekend starts.
The FWW and I going to have a great one thanks to MB!

Since both my DD's didn't listen to me when I asked them to

marry orphins smile

the FWW and I will be alone Christmas night.

She wants us to watch the video we ordered from MB.

Merry Christmas indeed!
Merry Christmas to you and Mrs.wle2 also. santa002 happynewyr
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 12/29/12 02:01 PM
I was reading MSS's thread and it dawned on me why I still have such lingering anxiety.

My FWW's A also ended on D-Day. I had geared up for a war that never came.

I had read on MB about how WS would probally react after D-Day but she didn't.

All of our struggles have come in our restoration not their seperation.

I am in no way complaining! 2 Cor. 10:5 is where my battle is now." ...taking every thought captive..."

From reading the threads of other BH's that will be my fight for a long time to come.

I can so relate to what UW posted on Letty's thread about Ws's. My FWW is so thankful to be here with me and wanting to leave this nightmare behind.

I do too, I just don't want to repeat the same mistakes. I read here everyday, I listen to the radio program. I NEVER want a normal marriage.

It is ever on my mind. Always seeking to be a better husband.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/02/13 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I was reading MSS's thread and it dawned on me why I still have such lingering anxiety.

My FWW's A also ended on D-Day. I had geared up for a war that never came.

I had read on MB about how WS would probally react after D-Day but she didn't.

All of our struggles have come in our restoration not their seperation.

I am in no way complaining! 2 Cor. 10:5 is where my battle is now." ...taking every thought captive..."

From reading the threads of other BH's that will be my fight for a long time to come.

I can so relate to what UW posted on Letty's thread about Ws's. My FWW is so thankful to be here with me and wanting to leave this nightmare behind.

I do too, I just don't want to repeat the same mistakes. I read here everyday, I listen to the radio program. I NEVER want a normal marriage.

It is ever on my mind. Always seeking to be a better husband.

It's because of this attitude, WLE, that you and Mrs. WLE WILL be successful!!!

Hope you both had a great Christmas! Happy New Year to you guys - may 2013 be your best year ever!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/07/13 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Originally Posted by wle2
I was reading MSS's thread and it dawned on me why I still have such lingering anxiety.

My FWW's A also ended on D-Day. I had geared up for a war that never came.

I had read on MB about how WS would probally react after D-Day but she didn't.

All of our struggles have come in our restoration not their seperation.

I am in no way complaining! 2 Cor. 10:5 is where my battle is now." ...taking every thought captive..."

From reading the threads of other BH's that will be my fight for a long time to come.

I can so relate to what UW posted on Letty's thread about Ws's. My FWW is so thankful to be here with me and wanting to leave this nightmare behind.

I do too, I just don't want to repeat the same mistakes. I read here everyday, I listen to the radio program. I NEVER want a normal marriage.

It is ever on my mind. Always seeking to be a better husband.

It's because of this attitude, WLE, that you and Mrs. WLE WILL be successful!!!

Hope you both had a great Christmas! Happy New Year to you guys - may 2013 be your best year ever!
Thanks SD! Right back at ya! We had an awesome time. Being in a great marriage makes everything better.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/07/13 07:12 PM
My FWW and I have watched the video we ordered from MB several times and she is now commpletly on board with MB to the point of trying to teach our 2 MDD's MB concepts! laugh
Starting 5 steps now that the hoildays are over.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/07/13 08:28 PM
Awesome news! H And I have shared MB with our kids as much as possible. It helps to know our struggles will benefit them.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/15/13 09:14 PM

Has anyone else struggled with O&H about emotions and unmet needs?
I hear a lot about conflict avoidance but nothing about how to kill it. As someone with a golden retriever personality I would rather have a root canal than hurt some one I care about.

Does this new habit of RH get easier with time or will I always have to fight with it? I do know I don't want the old way of life
so I am pushing through it.

I fight the protection lie'r in me daily!










Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/16/13 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Has anyone else struggled with O&H about emotions and unmet needs?
I hear a lot about conflict avoidance but nothing about how to kill it. As someone with a golden retriever personality I would rather have a root canal than hurt some one I care about.

Does this new habit of RH get easier with time or will I always have to fight with it? I do know I don't want the old way of life
so I am pushing through it.

I fight the protection lie'r in me daily!

Definitely have struggled with this! It's CRUCIAL, however, that you overcome these tendencies to hold things in! I mentioned on Letty's thread recently how important it was to make new habits in this area. You simply CANNOT have deeper intimacy if you do not share your true feelings! It's the deeper intimacy and closeness that bonds spouses together - and creates the environment that affair-proofs a marriage.

There are lots of ways you can learn to communicate needs and feelings that are productive and positive, rather than negative. In this regard, good communication tools really do help a marriage. You use "I" statements, for instance, instead of "You" which focuses on what you need rather than what the other person is doing wrong. You choose a good time to talk about these things, not when your spouse has a migraine.... There are lots of ways to set it up so that it's a good thing rather than a negative. Practice with small things so that the bigger things come easier later - just like with POJA.

The health of your marriage really does hinge on how RH you are with each other!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/16/13 09:10 PM
I guess compared to the train wreck that not being O&H with each other got us after 30 years, being a little uncomfortable with a new, beneficial habit is not so bad after all.

We just watched the video last week together and Dr. Harley talked about how new habits seem so strange at first but after doing them they become second nature, like the folding of your arms right over left or left over right.

Funny how we each have different struggles with different aspects of the plan. Some things I picked right up without much difficulty . IB I corrected almost effortlessly. RH, This one is a tough one for me.
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/16/13 11:49 PM
Use the tools available, wle; regularly review the ENQ and LBQ until sharing it pleasantly and respectfully is a habit.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/17/13 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Use the tools available, wle; regularly review the ENQ and LBQ until sharing it pleasantly and respectfully is a habit.
HHH,
Thanks for reminding me I just printed off copies of all the Questioners to start the 5 Steps hand book.

Sharing it respectfully I can do, pleasantly for her I can do. Pleasant for me... that's been the impasse. I will use the ENQ to help me start the conversation.
Learning to meet her needs has been enjoyable for me. Letting her know mine has been harder. I don't know why. I do know how miserable we both were so I am going to do it.
Trying to replace a bad , destructive habit with a good and beneficial one shouldn't be this hard!
It is a sad commentary on how disconnected FWW and I had gotten over our 30yr. M that I have such reluctance with talking about this with her still.
Well, it is time to "use the tools" and reconnect this part too!
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/17/13 10:09 PM
It's all about habits, sir. It doesn't just "get easier," it becomes natural!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/18/13 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
It's all about habits, sir. It doesn't just "get easier," it becomes natural!
I Understand the difference, thanks for the correction!.
I do want to become the H who out of habit just naturally protects and cares for his W and spends time with her.
One who is O&H without even having to consciously think about it.
That's why I come here!
Nothing less than an exceptional marriage will work for us.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/19/13 01:20 PM
FWW and I went out to dinner with a couple of dear friends last night who are in complete support of us and our MR.We had asked them be our witnesses as we signed the agreement at the beginning of the 5 steps hand book.
We are filling out our LBQ's today.
Having the FWW want to work on our MR makes major LB$.
But listening to her explain the MB concepts to our friends last night and how well she was able to explain it to them gave me such a huge LB$ that it felt like Publishers Clearing House had just left!
It is interesting to me how quickly good habits are picked up and getting rid of the bad ones takes more time. It is easy to understand why getting rid of LB's is the 1st thing dealt with in the 5 steps hand book.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/27/13 12:52 PM
Had to tell you guys about the the best day I've had in 17 months.
The FWW and I spent the entire day together in one of our favorite RC's, had a great time .
We got home and after dinner we worked on our LBQ, Waite that's not the best part.
I was lying in bed after SF and it dawned on me.
This is the first time in 17 months that during SF I had no bad thoughts or horrific images popping into my head! laugh
We have been discussing the MB concepts and the light bulb has come on for her.
We are having a hard time with the LBQ because we have almost completely stopped doing them already.
We are having to remember how we used to do most of them.
We still have areas that we know we need to improve, but now at least we are willing to correct them and know how to do it thanks to MB!
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/27/13 02:50 PM
laugh
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/28/13 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Had to tell you guys about the the best day I've had in 17 months.
The FWW and I spent the entire day together in one of our favorite RC's, had a great time .
We got home and after dinner we worked on our LBQ, Waite that's not the best part.
I was lying in bed after SF and it dawned on me.
This is the first time in 17 months that during SF I had no bad thoughts or horrific images popping into my head! laugh
We have been discussing the MB concepts and the light bulb has come on for her.
We are having a hard time with the LBQ because we have almost completely stopped doing them already.
We are having to remember how we used to do most of them.
We still have areas that we know we need to improve, but now at least we are willing to correct them and know how to do it thanks to MB!
hurray
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/29/13 05:50 PM
FWW felt bad and took a few days off and did not mention it to me when we talked on the phone that morning. Told me at home later that night she had taken the next two days off.
I asked her if she would mind letting me know before she takes any days off. To her credit she said, "This is a trigger for you isn't it? I'm sorry."
FWW used to take off of work to carry out PA. I was clueless.
I left this one out of her EP by mistake. She said that she will get a print out of her time off and let me know in the future before she takes off from work.
The good part is she realized that this was a huge trigger for me on her own. We discussed how we have to eliminate all forms of IB and start new habits.
This is the very LB we are working on 1st in our LBQ!
I needed to refine EP's with her. This one was a HUGE one and I forgot to put it on the list!
Corrected!

Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/29/13 06:49 PM
wle, I think it is geat that FWW realized it was a trigger and is working to rectify it. Good for her!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/29/13 11:02 PM
So good to read that not only have you had some great days (and nights) together but are learning to self-correct as well!

AWESOME job, WLE and Mrs. WLE!!!
Woo Hoo!!!!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
wle, I think it is geat that FWW realized it was a trigger and is working to rectify it. Good for her!
RQ,
Having FWW pick up on that was needed affirmation for me!
You stay strong, I am pulling for you and KISS.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
So good to read that not only have you had some great days (and nights) together but are learning to self-correct as well!

AWESOME job, WLE and Mrs. WLE!!!
Woo Hoo!!!!
If I weren't so crippled there might be a risk of a spontaneous Jig! dance2
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 01:56 PM
One last trigger issue is FWW's truck. I want to trade it she wants to pay it off and be rid of the debt.

In our last hard A talk I had told her how much it hurt me to know she had driven it to the motel to meet POSOM. This is the truck I had given her as a surprise gift less than a year earlier.

I can't watch her leave in it without thinking about it.

Should I tell her again exactly what bothers me in detail, what I had given her out of love she used to harm me or just say we need to get rid of it because it is a trigger?

Thoughts?


Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 03:36 PM
If you've already have the conversation you just simply say that getting rid of the truck is a must for recovery for you. You don't need to justify it. If Dr. H advocates people up and moving their homes, I'm sure selling the truck is a no-brainer!

Your recovery is more important than anything - including trucks and debts associated with them!

Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 03:38 PM
The truck's disposition, if it were so affective upon you, should have been part of the initial "recovery" plan.

Right now, depending on the understanding of the status of your union, it might have passed in her mind from "trigger to be cast away" to "item to be POJA'd".

I would suggest you start by reminding her of the pain you explained to her previously, and that you are expecting her to understand and take the appropriate action.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
If you've already have the conversation you just simply say that getting rid of the truck is a must for recovery for you. You don't need to justify it. If Dr. H advocates people up and moving their homes, I'm sure selling the truck is a no-brainer!

Your recovery is more important than anything - including trucks and debts associated with them!
Sunny
I'll do that. Just wanted to be careful in what I say so as not to violate my promise to her not to mention her A ever again.
I don't want any reminders either. I will mention to her that it is not all trucks it's THAT truck!

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
The truck's disposition, if it were so affective upon you, should have been part of the initial "recovery" plan.

Right now, depending on the understanding of the status of your union, it might have passed in her mind from "trigger to be cast away" to "item to be POJA'd".

I would suggest you start by reminding her of the pain you explained to her previously, and that you are expecting her to understand and take the appropriate action.
NG
I did not let her know how it affected me until recently.
Thought it would pass,It won't.
When we talked about it we covered a lot and I did not specifically tell her I wanted to get rid of it at the time just how much it hurt.
I can see where she has made that transition in her mind and I am to blame for that. I was not O&H with her about how I felt seeing her drive that truck everyday. A constant reminder of her A.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 06:11 PM
I don't know what is harder for me to conquer...
My conflict avoidance or my fear of telling a southern girl who hunts she has to sale her truck!
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 06:24 PM
...my fear of telling a southern girl who hunts she has to sale her truck!

Uhhh, before a certain transplanted Texenne shows up, I would suggest securing her weapons, and THEN telling her!
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/30/13 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
wle, I think it is geat that FWW realized it was a trigger and is working to rectify it. Good for her!
RQ,
Having FWW pick up on that was needed affirmation for me!
You stay strong, I am pulling for you and KISS.

Thank you!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/03/13 12:00 PM
FWW brought me the print out of her days off without me even asking her for it! It is amazing how good things like this makes me feel.

Now if she would just come home in new blue truck... or a green one I don't care!

Have not had that conversation yet, this weekend hopefully.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/03/13 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
FWW brought me the print out of her days off without me even asking her for it! It is amazing how good things like this makes me feel.

Now if she would just come home in new blue truck... or a green one I don't care!

Have not had that conversation yet, this weekend hopefully.

Definitely talk to WW about getting WW to sell the truck today.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/09/13 01:06 PM
We are stuck on dishonesty from our love buster questioner. We have corrected IB, and the DJ.

Those two were easy for us.
This one is tough for me and I don't know how to stop doing it.

We have talked around the truck issue but haven't set down and talked about it specifically yet.

FWW asked me to write down what is bothering me and see if that will help me get over the hesitation.

I have spent three days on about 4 things I am struggling with and I am going to set down with her tonight and go over them.

Shouldn't be this hard to do what I know is good for our M!

Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/09/13 08:05 PM
wle2, you'll just have to set the stage. Let her know that you have something to talk to her about tonight. And when you do, just tell her straight out that it bothers you seeing her in that truck and how does he feel about trading it in for something else.

I know what you mean about having to be honest. It was brought to my attention that I was sacrificing by not talking about how I felt about things. I hadn't realized it. I think I took the "not talking about the A too far. I need to look at it as that i'm not, just how it is affecting my present. As in "When you buy that type of wine, it brings back bad memories for me". For you, it would be "When I see you in that truck, it brings mack bad memories for me and makes me sad".
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/09/13 08:55 PM
There definitely is a fine line between not bringing up the affair and ensuring that you are radically honest.

The bigger thing for you, WLE, is to quit being such a conflict avoider! smile And I say that with all good intentions. Take a que from Nike and "JUST DO IT." Conflict avoiding and making nice is exactly what got my H and I in trouble. Make sure you say things in a respectful manner but SAY IT.

Lying is a huge part of conflict avoiding. What you have to get to the bottom of is why you have such a hard time asking for what you need in the first place. Do you not feel worthy? Do you think it's not worth it? Were you brought up to keep a stiff upper lift? Do you get some satisfaction out of playing the martyr? There are all kinds of things that play into it. Sometimes it's a personality thing as much of a conscious thing.

Really, in the end it doesn't matter why you're doing as much as it matters THAT you're doing it.

Yes, you might feel uncomfortable being truthful (and therefore, vulnerable) but it WILL make your marriage better.

I mentioned on another thread recently that my marriage has grown the most over the last 2 1/2 years after major disagreements. It has been in those times that real, gut level communication has taken place. It wasn't comfortable, but it was necessary - and we benefited greatly from it: truly brought us closer.

I'm one that is much better about writing things out... and H and I have both done that throughout recovery. Although, I do think it's important to learn to talk about it and not just write/read.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/10/13 12:14 PM
OK, I talked with FWW last night and she didn't burst into flames as I had thought she would.

Truck is going to be traded. Started looking yesterday.We talked for a couple of hours about my dishonesty and why I do it and about what.

When we discussed how I felt about the truck the first time it was
in the middle of our last A detail talk and she didn't catch it.

That's understandable because I was crying, she was crying, both cats were crying it was a long hard emotional talk.

She was not even bothered once I explained why I felt that way.

She really gets it and I even more confident in us making it than before.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/10/13 12:22 PM
Have you heard this clip on the different kind of liars?
Radio Clip on the Different Kind of Liars
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/10/13 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
wle2, you'll just have to set the stage. Let her know that you have something to talk to her about tonight. And when you do, just tell her straight out that it bothers you seeing her in that truck and how does he feel about trading it in for something else.

I know what you mean about having to be honest. It was brought to my attention that I was sacrificing by not talking about how I felt about things. I hadn't realized it. I think I took the "not talking about the A too far. I need to look at it as that i'm not, just how it is affecting my present. As in "When you buy that type of wine, it brings back bad memories for me". For you, it would be "When I see you in that truck, it brings mack bad memories for me and makes me sad".
RQ
Setting the stage is what I have the biggest hang up on. You are spot on there!
I hold it all in until the balance tips and my resentment builds and that's not what I want anymore.
I'm with you on taking the "never talk about the A" part to far.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/10/13 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
There definitely is a fine line between not bringing up the affair and ensuring that you are radically honest.

The bigger thing for you, WLE, is to quit being such a conflict avoider! smile And I say that with all good intentions. Take a que from Nike and "JUST DO IT." Conflict avoiding and making nice is exactly what got my H and I in trouble. Make sure you say things in a respectful manner but SAY IT.

Lying is a huge part of conflict avoiding. What you have to get to the bottom of is why you have such a hard time asking for what you need in the first place. Do you not feel worthy? Do you think it's not worth it? Were you brought up to keep a stiff upper lift? Do you get some satisfaction out of playing the martyr? There are all kinds of things that play into it. Sometimes it's a personality thing as much of a conscious thing.

Really, in the end it doesn't matter why you're doing as much as it matters THAT you're doing it.

Yes, you might feel uncomfortable being truthful (and therefore, vulnerable) but it WILL make your marriage better.

I mentioned on another thread recently that my marriage has grown the most over the last 2 1/2 years after major disagreements. It has been in those times that real, gut level communication has taken place. It wasn't comfortable, but it was necessary - and we benefited greatly from it: truly brought us closer.

I'm one that is much better about writing things out... and H and I have both done that throughout recovery. Although, I do think it's important to learn to talk about it and not just write/read.
SD
As always you are right again! I no I have a big conflict avoidance issue and it comes out of not wanting to hurt FWW.

I see how damaging it is and still do it. I am going work harder on this and FWW to her credit told me not to keep from her things that are bothering me.

She told me to look at it like taking off a band aide, just do it all at once. Don't slowly peel it away, just rip it off!

I was going to ask you guys about my conflict avoidance problem sooner, but I didn't want to bother ya'll blush
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/10/13 12:57 PM
Also have you seen this?

Resentment Type A and Type B
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/10/13 05:01 PM
SD
As always you are right again! I no I have a big conflict avoidance issue and it comes out of not wanting to hurt FWW.

I see how damaging it is and still do it. I am going work harder on this and FWW to her credit told me not to keep from her things that are bothering me.

She told me to look at it like taking off a band aide, just do it all at once. Don't slowly peel it away, just rip it off!

I was going to ask you guys about my conflict avoidance problem sooner, but I didn't want to bother ya'll


See...quit worrying about bothering people...especially your wife!

I'm glad Brainy linked the "types of liars" thing because it's worth a 2nd read - you might recall it from the books. When you lie - even to avoid hurting your wife - it hurts your marriage. That, of course, is worse than momentarily hurting your wife's feelings.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/11/13 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you heard this clip on the different kind of liars?
Radio Clip on the Different Kind of Liars
BH,
Guilty as charged! I know I do it and FWW and I are discussing this now in our 5 steps workbook. I am a protection liar from way back.
Big brother to little sisters and all.
I see there is no place for it in my M.
Thank you again!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/11/13 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
SD
As always you are right again! I no I have a big conflict avoidance issue and it comes out of not wanting to hurt FWW.

I see how damaging it is and still do it. I am going work harder on this and FWW to her credit told me not to keep from her things that are bothering me.

She told me to look at it like taking off a band aide, just do it all at once. Don't slowly peel it away, just rip it off!

I was going to ask you guys about my conflict avoidance problem sooner, but I didn't want to bother ya'll


See...quit worrying about bothering people...especially your wife!

I'm glad Brainy linked the "types of liars" thing because it's worth a 2nd read - you might recall it from the books. When you lie - even to avoid hurting your wife - it hurts your marriage. That, of course, is worse than momentarily hurting your wife's feelings.
SD,
Working on it from here on out.
I can come up with a host of reasons for the behavior.I see it in myself and don't want to do it anymore .
As FWW and I talked about it the other night I think it boils down to me not feeling completely safe yet.


Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/11/13 05:33 PM
FWW has accepted every EP. What I am not safe with is being that vulnerable again it seems. In our discussions about how and what she was feeling before she even started her A is where the fear springs from. I tried to reconnect with her for a year before the A started and couldn't. Now FWW tells me that I have made her so happy that her LB$ is at an all time high.
I don't want to stop that trend so I don't bring up my feelings or concerns that I perceive might cause her to be unhappy. I have jumped in the water now so I am not going to stop and let the resentment build,
Thanks again Brainy for the links!!
Being a BS and stressing over my lies hurting my FWW sounds a little crazy when you think about it but the protection liar is that ingrained in me!
As we say down here... I'm fix'n to stop doing that!

Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/14/13 06:52 AM
It takes awhile for the FBS to be ready to be vulnerable again - at least it did me! That's part of the FWS having to earn you back: it's your wife's job to earn that.

I understand you wanting her to be happy and not wanting to upset the boat - but you know how the system works! And keep in mind - part of a great relationship is respect. I would go so far as to say romantic love is not possible with respect for your partner. You have to respect yourself enough to be honest with your W; and that self respect - as long as it is shown in the right way - will allow her to respect you as well.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/14/13 12:10 PM
SD,
I know now how it works it is the placation that trips me up! That's why you guy's are so important to me!
I appreciate your time in helping me and all the other's.
I believe I have banished that dishonesty beast now after the
truck talk.
FWW took off tomorrow so we could go hear Jim Brickman and the ASO tonight and we plan on looking at trucks Friday and Saturday.
Lose of respect is the result of my dishonesty in the past. I have read so many times the definition of insanity, yet there I go!
My relational skills got me here. The new MB ones are going to carry me forward, not going back or continuing the old ones!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/14/13 12:24 PM
Good job.

Keep enjoying the new MB marriage.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/14/13 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Good job.

Keep enjoying the new MB marriage.

Agreed!!! Just keep at it and make sure it remains your #1 priority - even as things get better and better. That's the key: to never lose that focus.

Happy Valentines to you and the Mrs...and to all my other MB friends out there! smile
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/15/13 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
FWW has accepted every EP. What I am not safe with is being that vulnerable again it seems. In our discussions about how and what she was feeling before she even started her A is where the fear springs from. I tried to reconnect with her for a year before the A started and couldn't. Now FWW tells me that I have made her so happy that her LB$ is at an all time high.
I don't want to stop that trend so I don't bring up my feelings or concerns that I perceive might cause her to be unhappy. I have jumped in the water now so I am not going to stop and let the resentment build,
Thanks again Brainy for the links!!
Being a BS and stressing over my lies hurting my FWW sounds a little crazy when you think about it but the protection liar is that ingrained in me!
As we say down here... I'm fix'n to stop doing that!


WLE,


You can allow YOURSELF to be vulernable, it is YOUR MARRIAGE you cannot allow to be vulnerable.

That means EPs are for both of you. It means you meet UA requirements.

It means you make sure that YOU are happy as well as your wife.

That means being radically honest, and helping your wife to avoid making LB$ withdrawals, and also with making larger, more effiecient LB$ deposits.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/16/13 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Originally Posted by wle2
FWW has accepted every EP. What I am not safe with is being that vulnerable again it seems. In our discussions about how and what she was feeling before she even started her A is where the fear springs from. I tried to reconnect with her for a year before the A started and couldn't. Now FWW tells me that I have made her so happy that her LB$ is at an all time high.
I don't want to stop that trend so I don't bring up my feelings or concerns that I perceive might cause her to be unhappy. I have jumped in the water now so I am not going to stop and let the resentment build,
Thanks again Brainy for the links!!
Being a BS and stressing over my lies hurting my FWW sounds a little crazy when you think about it but the protection liar is that ingrained in me!
As we say down here... I'm fix'n to stop doing that!


WLE,


You can allow YOURSELF to be vulernable, it is YOUR MARRIAGE you cannot allow to be vulnerable.

That means EPs are for both of you. It means you meet UA requirements.

It means you make sure that YOU are happy as well as your wife.

That means being radically honest, and helping your wife to avoid making LB$ withdrawals, and also with making larger, more effiecient LB$ deposits.
HHH,
Thank you for the clarification.
That is what I am working on now.
We are staying around 20 hours a week UA and have adjusted EP's that have really helped the phone , computer and OS friends .

That pain was so intense I guess I have been trying to ease back into the waters instead of just diving in. I can see that by me working on the the M and concentrating on FWWs ENs I have put off allowing her to meet mine.

We took a big step towards that this weekend.
The old King Ranch Affair-mobile is no more and the new Lariat
is here! FWW told me that she only wants me to have good memories
about her from now on and that she enthusiastically wanted to get rid of her old truck for my healing!

By the way buying her a New truck on Valentine's Day really helps to get a certain numero uno EN of mine meet!! smile

Can't tell you how much I need you guy's on MB!


Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/17/13 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
We took a big step towards that this weekend.
The old King Ranch Affair-mobile is no more and the new Lariat
is here! FWW told me that she only wants me to have good memories
about her from now on and that she enthusiastically wanted to get rid of her old truck for my healing!

By the way buying her a New truck on Valentine's Day really helps to get a certain numero uno EN of mine meet!! smile

Can't tell you how much I need you guy's on MB!

They bought a Ford rant2

What kind of POJA is that? banghead

I guess it is too late for an intervention. MrRollieEyes

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/17/13 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by wle2
We took a big step towards that this weekend.
The old King Ranch Affair-mobile is no more and the new Lariat
is here! FWW told me that she only wants me to have good memories
about her from now on and that she enthusiastically wanted to get rid of her old truck for my healing!

By the way buying her a New truck on Valentine's Day really helps to get a certain numero uno EN of mine meet!! smile

Can't tell you how much I need you guy's on MB!

They bought a Ford rant2

What kind of POJA is that? banghead

I guess it is too late for an intervention. MrRollieEyes
TheRoad'
Too funny, I'm just going to guess here ... not a Ford fan!
I would bought a Conestoga wagon just to have another vehicle
in the drive way!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/23/13 07:35 PM
Crap!! Don't ya'll hate those those sneaky surprise triggers that you should have seen coming but missed!
FWW had to fill in on the night shift this week temporarily and I have felt terrible all week even though we are still getting in over 20 hours UA!
Then it hits me ... this is where she was during her A! It didn't register with me until the other night as I was laying awake in bed alone unable to sleep. I jumped up and text-ed her good night. I also asked her to call me when she is working off shifts.
I can't believe I missed that one.
Then there are the triggers that are just certain phrases that FWW will say that will get me. Or worst repeat something I have discussed with her and the sense of Deja vu hearing her say something she said back then.
The ones you don't see coming that hit you right between the eyes.
The one that got me off guard yesterday was as FWW was getting ready to go in to work I saw her wrapped in a towel coming out of the bathroom and just wanted a kiss. She said don't get too excited I just got my shower. BAM! The first thought that went through my crazy brain was it didn't bother you to have sex with POSOM during your lunch break then go straight back to work!
Why does my mind still do that to me!! It has to be the combination of events , situations and words that did it.
Talked to FWW about how I need a little more from her to feel safe still, like calling me from the work phone to see the number she is calling from and remembering what I told her bothered me about her A.
On my part I should have remembered that back then I only use to show her affection when I wanted SF and by me asking for a kiss right then made her remember it that's why she said what she did.
Old habits!
WLE2 ... still "IN" recovery
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/13 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
The one that got me off guard yesterday was as FWW was getting ready to go in to work I saw her wrapped in a towel coming out of the bathroom and just wanted a kiss. She said don't get too excited I just got my shower. BAM! The first thought that went through my crazy brain was it didn't bother you to have sex with POSOM during your lunch break then go straight back to work!

Reading that and I felt the hurt. You need to stop the trigger from unfolding past did she ever tell OM no.

You need to explain how WW telling you no leaves you second best to OM because you know she did not tell the OM no.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/13 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by wle2
The one that got me off guard yesterday was as FWW was getting ready to go in to work I saw her wrapped in a towel coming out of the bathroom and just wanted a kiss. She said don't get too excited I just got my shower. BAM! The first thought that went through my crazy brain was it didn't bother you to have sex with POSOM during your lunch break then go straight back to work!

Reading that and I felt the hurt. You need to stop the trigger from unfolding past did she ever tell OM no.

You need to explain how WW telling you no leaves you second best to OM because you know she did not tell the OM no.
Road,
What was so unsettling to me was realizing we have had that exact conversation but not since before D-day.
I will tell her.
Thank you for responding I won't hold these feelings from her anymore. We had discussed how hurtful it was/is to me the small things FWW did for her OP she won't do for me her husband.
This issue, what she slept in, how she talked to him etc.
This seems so trivial but wow it gets to me still.
I am not going to let this hinder our MR by no means.
I just had to let some steam off before I talked to my Bride!
Posted By: LifetimeLearner Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/25/13 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by wle2
The one that got me off guard yesterday was as FWW was getting ready to go in to work I saw her wrapped in a towel coming out of the bathroom and just wanted a kiss. She said don't get too excited I just got my shower. BAM! The first thought that went through my crazy brain was it didn't bother you to have sex with POSOM during your lunch break then go straight back to work!

Reading that and I felt the hurt. You need to stop the trigger from unfolding past did she ever tell OM no.

You need to explain how WW telling you no leaves you second best to OM because you know she did not tell the OM no.

If "no" is not really an option for her, then what is that? I think you were on the right track when you were considering her feelings, too, when you mentioned that she might be thinking of affection as a quick way to sex. If you continue to give her affection as a way to show her your care, she will probably feel more inclined as time goes on to have a kiss after a shower. Or you could see if you can negotiate that instead of telling her that "no" makes you think of her affair.

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/25/13 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by LifetimeLearner
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by wle2
The one that got me off guard yesterday was as FWW was getting ready to go in to work I saw her wrapped in a towel coming out of the bathroom and just wanted a kiss. She said don't get too excited I just got my shower. BAM! The first thought that went through my crazy brain was it didn't bother you to have sex with POSOM during your lunch break then go straight back to work!

Reading that and I felt the hurt. You need to stop the trigger from unfolding past did she ever tell OM no.

You need to explain how WW telling you no leaves you second best to OM because you know she did not tell the OM no.

If "no" is not really an option for her, then what is that? I think you were on the right track when you were considering her feelings, too, when you mentioned that she might be thinking of affection as a quick way to sex. If you continue to give her affection as a way to show her your care, she will probably feel more inclined as time goes on to have a kiss after a shower. Or you could see if you can negotiate that instead of telling her that "no" makes you think of her affair.
LifetimeLearner
Thank you for your insights ,I need all the help I can get. I will continue to be mindful of how and when I show her affection.

My intent was just a kiss but I guess the damage we have inflicted on each other over the past 30 years pre- MB caused this response in her out of self protection.
I do understand and have tried to adjust so I can meet that EN she has for affection.

"No" is always an option for her and I will assure her of that again when we are able to talk about this. I know that timing is everything and we have discussed that very issue early on in MC.

If she was just teasing me and not concerned about my intentions. Wish she would have just stated she had to go to work instead of just had a shower.
I brought this subject up to her when she answered the last A detail questions for me.

As I stated earlier It kills me that she would do things for POSOM she would not do for me. I don't understand why this is or if it will pass with time but I was reminded of this when I heard those familiar words.

It is just hearing her say to me the "I just had a shower and have to work" thing knowing that didn't bother her enough to keep her from checking out motel ceiling tiles during lunch break with OM then working the rest of the night. But it always does if it is with me.

We talked about the words she used in her text to OM, words I've never heard her use. Even what she didn't wear on the all nighters. This is what hurts me still and I don't know how to address these thoughts and emotions.
Posted By: LifetimeLearner Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/13 12:51 AM

So, are you still talking about the affair with her?

I don't know how you can address your thoughts or emotions, really, except maybe if you could tell yourself to put them on the back burner for a time while you work on the marriage. Maybe you could mollify your taker enough to keep from committing love busters and to continue to deposit love units, then reassess how you feel about your marriage in about 6 months. I know it's a challenge to corral one's thoughts.

I admit I haven't read your whole thread, but do you have "Surviving an Affair?" Have you read it?



Posted By: LifetimeLearner Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/13 01:49 AM

I have now read your whole thread. I see that you have read SAA. Did your wife ever finish reading it?

I had to read your post of 2/23 quite a few times before understanding it. So, if I understand correctly, it's not about the kiss or no kiss so much as it is about what she said that triggered you. Is that correct?

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/13 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by LifetimeLearner
I have now read your whole thread. I see that you have read SAA. Did your wife ever finish reading it?

I had to read your post of 2/23 quite a few times before understanding it. So, if I understand correctly, it's not about the kiss or no kiss so much as it is about what she said that triggered you. Is that correct?
Sorry if I rambled. Yes, that is correct. It is what she said that triggered me.

I haven't thought about that aspect of her A in a while. When she made that statement I was surprised by the flood of bad thoughts that her words brought to my mind.

FWW did finish reading SAA and it really opened her eyes to where she had been and where we need to be.



Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/13 04:03 PM
I think hearing the exact words in a similar setting caused the reaction. The intent of her words were not the same.

What I am struggling with is why the strong emotional reaction in me.

Makes me wonder what the real underlying issue is. I felt a tinge of resentment and didn't realize it was there.

I am hoping it is just emotional memory conjured up by my wounded mind hearing FWWs old familiar protest.

We have not had the opportunity to be alone long enough to discuss it until tonight.

No more conflict avoidance though!

I hate that I keep tripping up and am looking for what step I have missed or what mistake I am repeating.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/13 04:34 PM
I don't want to LB FWW nor hinder our MR. I know from what I have read I have to change what I am thinking about before the emotions come storming in.
The shock of hearing FWW say those words gave me just enough pause that my mind tarried too long on the past.Those associated emotions when they hit washed over me so hard I felt all the hurt, anger and rejection.

And of course not only did I NOT remember what had learned I waded further in.

It is so true what they say about us wet thirsty horses?

Application is where I'm falling behind it seems!

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/13 08:17 PM
I have been doing a lot of reflecting and believe FWW just unintentionally struck a still raw nerve.

The deepest wounds truly heal last.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/27/13 03:17 PM
This is where you have to remind yourself, WLE, that the affair was fantasyland and not the real world. I know it hurts when things remind you of "what she did with/for him that she's never done with/for me..." I know I've been there. I'm sure most FBS's have. Here's the thing though: it will never compare to the beauty and long lasting joy and happiness that a great marriage brings! NEVER.

Sometimes these triggers surprise us because we thought we were passed them - or at least hoped we were. Knowing that there is no finish line in recovery helped me: it's not like this trigger is regression. It's just part of the process. To add, the longer you are in recovery, there comes a time when you settle in (both partners) and you have to remember to fight harder for that great relationship. This could be one of those times for you and Mrs. WLE. Maybe she needs a reminder that spontaneous SF is a real LB deposit for you...whether she just got out of the shower and/or is going to work or not. And for you - remembering to give her plenty of affection not tied to SF.

Use the trigger to your advantage and step up your game.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/28/13 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
This is where you have to remind yourself, WLE, that the affair was fantasyland and not the real world. I know it hurts when things remind you of "what she did with/for him that she's never done with/for me..." I know I've been there. I'm sure most FBS's have. Here's the thing though: it will never compare to the beauty and long lasting joy and happiness that a great marriage brings! NEVER.

Sometimes these triggers surprise us because we thought we were passed them - or at least hoped we were. Knowing that there is no finish line in recovery helped me: it's not like this trigger is regression. It's just part of the process. To add, the longer you are in recovery, there comes a time when you settle in (both partners) and you have to remember to fight harder for that great relationship. This could be one of those times for you and Mrs. WLE. Maybe she needs a reminder that spontaneous SF is a real LB deposit for you...whether she just got out of the shower and/or is going to work or not. And for you - remembering to give her plenty of affection not tied to SF.

Use the trigger to your advantage and step up your game.
Sunny
I am reaping what I have sown. These problems are of my own making.My continued dishonesty and conflict avoidance has kept FWW from knowing what triggers I still had and what ENs aren't being meet.
The FWW and I talked about the situation and she completely understands why it bothered me to hear her say what she did now and she says she will be more aware of this area in the future.
She also said she wants to do the things that keep me thinking about our future together not our past.
As always thank you for the help.
It is painfully apparent I don't understand all I know about MR.

































Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/28/13 01:47 PM
"It is painfully apparent I don't understand all I know about MR."

Here's the thing: the more you do, the more you know...but there are just layers to it all. In the beginning, you're learning basic concepts - enough to survive. Eventually you learn more intricacies of each concept that get you past surviving and into thriving. It's a never ending process - and that's perfectly OK!
smile
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/12/13 06:43 PM
I have not seen my FWW so happy in years. She tells me everyday how much she loves me.
I understand how to meet her EN way better than I know how to let her know my own.
We are trying to re-do our EN questionnaires for the workbook.
Hopefully this will help me voice them to her.
I want to be where she is!
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/12/13 09:11 PM
Great news wle2!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/13/13 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Great news wle2!
RQ
Yes it is! Maybe there is something to all this MB stuff after all! smile
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/13/13 03:00 PM
I truly believe so. I see so many here that attribute their happiness to MB. I hope the same for Kiss and I.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/13/13 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I have not seen my FWW so happy in years. She tells me everyday how much she loves me.
I understand how to meet her EN way better than I know how to let her know my own.
We are trying to re-do our EN questionnaires for the workbook.
Hopefully this will help me voice them to her.
I want to be where she is!
Fantastic!!!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/13/13 11:36 PM
It IS great news. BUT........

You NEED to make sure you are expressing your needs and she is meeting those as equally well as you are meeting hers.

You know this, of course.

If you don't - you will become resentful and that's not good!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/14/13 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I truly believe so. I see so many here that attribute their happiness to MB. I hope the same for Kiss and I.
RQ,
We ALL hope that ya'll get there!
God and finding MB keep me from total disaster. The concepts found here do work, but implementing them EXACTLY is the key I have finely understood.
I don't post everyday but I do read everyday and know that what I have learned here through following the lives of others like you who have been fighting so hard for their marriages and the wonderful people here who respond to us have made the difference for me.
Don't give up!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/14/13 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
It IS great news. BUT........

You NEED to make sure you are expressing your needs and she is meeting those as equally well as you are meeting hers.

You know this, of course.

If you don't - you will become resentful and that's not good!
SD,
I have found that the depressions I have been periodically fighting all seem to spring from the resentment I allowed to creep in because of my past fear and conflict avoidance.
A very wise woman taught me that not long ago! smile
It is still a work in progress and old habits die hard, but I am determined to beat that beast also!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/14/13 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by wle2
I have not seen my FWW so happy in years. She tells me everyday how much she loves me.
I understand how to meet her EN way better than I know how to let her know my own.
We are trying to re-do our EN questionnaires for the workbook.
Hopefully this will help me voice them to her.
I want to be where she is!
Fantastic!!!
Yes it is!! laugh
Thank you Brainy for all you do!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/14/13 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by wle2
I have not seen my FWW so happy in years. She tells me everyday how much she loves me.
I understand how to meet her EN way better than I know how to let her know my own.
We are trying to re-do our EN questionnaires for the workbook.
Hopefully this will help me voice them to her.
I want to be where she is!
Fantastic!!!
Yes it is!! laugh
Thank you Brainy for all you do!
You're welcome. smile
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/15/13 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
It IS great news. BUT........

You NEED to make sure you are expressing your needs and she is meeting those as equally well as you are meeting hers.

You know this, of course.

If you don't - you will become resentful and that's not good!
SD,
I have found that the depressions I have been periodically fighting all seem to spring from the resentment I allowed to creep in because of my past fear and conflict avoidance.
A very wise woman taught me that not long ago! smile
It is still a work in progress and old habits die hard, but I am determined to beat that beast also!

Well - it is certainly a new habit that has to be developed. The way I learned to think of it is this: when you keep your mouth shut when you should speak up you are actually being disrespectful of your wife. You're saying "I don't trust you to handle the truth." It's a DJ.

When you avoid conflict, you are lying - misrepresenting the state of your relationship.

Just remember, your relationship is an entity outside of yourself: it has to be put before you and before your wife. When each of you puts the marriage first, that's where the magic happens. When you're not overcoming those habits of conflict avoidance, you are not putting your marriage first; you're putting YOU first. When you look at it that way, you are looking out for your own best interests when you avoid conflict. We often fool ourselves into thinking we are "looking to make the other person happy" or some other nonsense that makes it sound more noble than it is.
Posted By: Letty Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/15/13 04:43 AM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
The way I learned to think of it is this: when you keep your mouth shut when you should speak up you are actually being disrespectful of your wife. You're saying "I don't trust you to handle the truth." It's a DJ.

When you avoid conflict, you are lying - misrepresenting the state of your relationship.

Just remember, your relationship is an entity outside of yourself: it has to be put before you and before your wife. When each of you puts the marriage first, that's where the magic happens. When you're not overcoming those habits of conflict avoidance, you are not putting your marriage first; you're putting YOU first. When you look at it that way, you are looking out for your own best interests when you avoid conflict. We often fool ourselves into thinking we are "looking to make the other person happy" or some other nonsense that makes it sound more noble than it is.

wow, sunny, that was a great post! (the whole thing, not just the blue.)
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/15/13 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
It IS great news. BUT........

You NEED to make sure you are expressing your needs and she is meeting those as equally well as you are meeting hers.

You know this, of course.

If you don't - you will become resentful and that's not good!
SD,
I have found that the depressions I have been periodically fighting all seem to spring from the resentment I allowed to creep in because of my past fear and conflict avoidance.
A very wise woman taught me that not long ago! smile
It is still a work in progress and old habits die hard, but I am determined to beat that beast also!

Well - it is certainly a new habit that has to be developed. The way I learned to think of it is this: when you keep your mouth shut when you should speak up you are actually being disrespectful of your wife. You're saying "I don't trust you to handle the truth." It's a DJ.

When you avoid conflict, you are lying - misrepresenting the state of your relationship.

Just remember, your relationship is an entity outside of yourself: it has to be put before you and before your wife. When each of you puts the marriage first, that's where the magic happens. When you're not overcoming those habits of conflict avoidance, you are not putting your marriage first; you're putting YOU first. When you look at it that way, you are looking out for your own best interests when you avoid conflict. We often fool ourselves into thinking we are "looking to make the other person happy" or some other nonsense that makes it sound more noble than it is.
SD,
You hit the nail on the head for me. I am learning to trust that she can handle the truth and that it is a DJ to be dishonest. I didn't even realize what I was really doing at first.
We covered this LB in our work book and I recognize it now for what it is and have to remember our agreed upon plan to eliminate it, which is to respectfully inform the other and safely discuss a resolution. Thanks!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/06/13 04:54 PM
We have been working very hard on our MR over the last month and we are finished with the LB portion of the 5 Steps to Romantic Love work book.

What I have come to understand through this and from some of you great posters is I want my DW to thrive and not wither being married to me.

We always say around here that there are always reasons but never an excuses. Believe me I gave my DW plenty of reasons over the past 31 years.

In our working together on MR we have been able to identify many of our past problems and have a plan to eliminate them.

We are averaging 20 + hours of UA and it has made such a difference. It has truly become the best part of our week.

I have been doing a lot of mirror gazing over the last year and a half but really intently over this past month. You know working on my side of the street.

The saddest revelation was how my DW says she still deals with the shame and guilt.

What is so sad about that is the realization that I was such a poor husband to her, I know it was her decision to actually have her A. I have to change the only one in this marriage I can change... ME!

Starting with the rule of care, I am not going to be the cause of my W unhappiness. I didn't think about how painful posting on here might be for her.

I have gotten so much help for you all and will stay but I am not going to demand DW do the same.

I still have a few issues and E=Mailed the radio program.

Since we are getting into EN's in the workbook and have finished

the section on affection and are starting the section on SF I

might not post for another month! laugh

You know just to be sure I get it right!



Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/06/13 06:36 PM
LOVE the update, WLE!

Keep up the good work. smile
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/07/13 02:43 AM
Please Let us know when they answer you on the show!!

Keep walking the MB walk!!! smile
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/07/13 06:11 PM
That was me on today's radio program. I feel like the scarecrow who just spoke to the wizard!
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/07/13 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
That was me on today's radio program. I feel like the scarecrow who just spoke to the wizard!

That LITERALLY made me laugh out loud!!!
LOL

rotflmao
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/07/13 08:10 PM
I was so nervous. My sister said I sounded like one of the Hillbilly bears.
But I am waiting to hear what DW has to say.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/08/13 03:12 PM
DW and I listened to the radio program together and she is on board with what the Harley's recommended and said she will send in her own E-Mail to answer what I spoke about and what she feels is still lacking form me to her.
We talked about it some and It does not seem to be as much of an issue with with her addressing this with me as it was with me over coming my conflict avoidance and bringing it up.
The more I conquer and eliminate this tendency in me the better off our marriage will be.
DW has really started to get this MR going full tilt lately and has embraced the concepts now that she sees the result of following the MB plan.
One of the concepts she had trouble seeing the benefit in was the idea of scheduled SF. I came up with an idea to make it more fun. I cut out heart shaped pieces of paper with days of the week on them and every Sunday afternoon when we schedule our UA time for the week we draw out a heart and that is the day we schedule SF. Not the only day but the one that is put in the calendar.
I am not going to say what our day is this week but I am fond of Wednesdays.
Posted By: SunnyDinTX Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/08/13 05:57 PM
We talked about it some and It does not seem to be as much of an issue with with her addressing this with me as it was with me over coming my conflict avoidance and bringing it up.
The more I conquer and eliminate this tendency in me the better off our marriage will be.


ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

I can see the reasons why scheduled SF may seem like a turn off for some women. However, I also find that when it's scheduled in some way, more effort is put in all the way around... AND...scheduled often leads to more unscheduled!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/09/13 09:25 AM
Every day I come here and read about all the pain and suffering.
My heart breaks every time a new name pops up on SSA.

It heals when one hits R.

What brings me here every day is hope.MB and all you that keep watch over so many hurting lives seeking guidance.

Some of you Vets my never know how many lives you have actually touched.

Thank You for giving of your time to hurting souls.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/09/13 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
DW and I listened to the radio program together and she is on board with what the Harley's recommended and said she will send in her own E-Mail to answer what I spoke about and what she feels is still lacking form me to her.

Let us know when they answer her question.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/28/13 02:21 AM
Radio Clip of wle's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/28/13 05:13 PM
Thanks Brainy!
Was waiting for it to hit the archives. DW and I have talked about this and she is determined to work with me so we can overcome this together.
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/28/13 06:19 PM
wle2, I listened to the first 2 segments so far and I think you sounded very confident and able to answer their questions clearly. I'm sure your sister just said that because...well, because she is a sister! wink

Glad that you have a partner willing to help you heal.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/28/13 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
wle2, I listened to the first 2 segments so far and I think you sounded very confident and able to answer their questions clearly. I'm sure your sister just said that because...well, because she is a sister! wink

Glad that you have a partner willing to help you heal.
Thanks RQ
I am really pleased with how much DW has worked on our MR. We are doing so well in every thing else that I am almost willing to let it slide and settle for a really good marriage but we both decided to keep working for that great MB marriage.

I can't seem to get this last hang up banished just yet but DW said she will work on it even more with me.
The one thing that we don't let slip anymore is UA. Still averaging 20+ hours a week.

But we ARE empty nesters!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/29/13 12:46 PM
Can you believe Le Ann Rimes Boo-hoo'n about how she felt after she had her A!

Cheese and crackers woman how do you think his wife felt!

Give me a break!! puke

OK, I feel better.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/29/13 05:05 PM
I love following your MB recovery. I'm sure you will get past this last hang up.

Good job on UA time.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/30/13 09:11 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I love following your MB recovery. I'm sure you will get past this last hang up.

Good job on UA time.
Thanks for the encouragement!
We spend so much time together that people are starting to think we're in love!

My DW and I took a class at our church on marriage and at the end of each class we have a discussion. Since we are in MR we always have input to add to the discussion.

Ever learning to be the expert at meeting DW EN for affection I always hold her hand, every where.

Had a woman in the class turn to us and asked are you two newly wed's? I of course said yes. She got the "That explains it." look and asked how long? When I told her thirty one years she didn't know how to respond.

DW tells every one about MB. I can't tell you how good it feels hearing DW explain to someone why she is so in love with me.

Still have issues but we are working on them together with O&H.

DW responded to the radio program and she told me she was going to have fun learning to meet my EN for SF and that she will give me lots of home work so that I can learn to meet her's laugh
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 05/30/13 01:26 PM
DW and I have been discussing what it is she is missing from me and she is drawing a blank. She stated to me that in the mean time she wants to work on what she needs to be doing at the same time.

I am hoping that when the Harley's get to her E-Mail response we can get some direction.

About the only thing that seems to help me is for her to stay connected to me as Dr. Harley rightly suggested.

One by one we have removed the barriers to that exceptional MB M we are seeking. I have read on other threads where MR is the hardest thing they have ever done. I completely concur!

Every day out from D-Day that we are together is a victory!

DW took tomorrow off and the two of us are going trout fishing and having a picnic on the river. I have discovered thanks to MB that having your DW as your RC pays huge dividends on LB$.

What I have learned is "IT AIN"T ABOUT FISHI'N!!"
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/26/13 09:13 AM
RQ
I also noticed that there hasn't been a lot going on. I hope that is because every body is spending so much UA time with their spouse they don't have the time.

So I thought I would give an update. My DW answered Dr. Harley's E-Mail but with a vague answer. Basically she told him that she can't think of anything that she is missing from me.

She and I have talked about what I was needing from her. I asked if she needed to write another E-Mail and she didn't seem to keen on the idea so I let it go.

Dw got it! She has really picked up her effort in SF and she is the one who wants to schedule it.I am getting text and phone calls letting me know how much she is looking forward to the day or night.
We are still between 16 to 20 hours UA and are looking for more RC we can both enjoy.

Dw started reading FIL SIL and we are still working in the 5 steps work book.

We had another milestone this past week and it pasted without me even noticing until the next day. It has been 2 years since they were last together. I call that a milestone because I never thought that date would slip my mind.

DW has done so much to make the present so good that the past doesn't linger in my mind as it once did. There is no way we could be where we are if DW had not embraced MB. It took her a while but the LB$ built up until she fell in love with me again and we are off to a great M.

I listen to the radio program and read here everyday ever wanting to improve on what we have. I love reading the responses and value the incites (NG yours too!)

I have found that I still have to be diligent not to slip into old bad habits but that's why I come here so often.

The bottom line is we now are starting to have the M we always wanted and know how to maintain it.
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/26/13 12:02 PM
Awesome update, wle2! So happy for you!

It makes a big difference in recovery when both spouses are involved so I am glad your wife is enthusiastically involved smile

Kiss and I are doing pretty well lately and I am hopeful that we will be where you guys are at someday
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/26/13 02:05 PM
Love your update wle, enjoy. hurray
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/27/13 01:06 AM
Thank you,
Hopeful, that's the attitude MB gives us RQ! You continue to implement the MB concepts it does work. Fight the temptation to settle for just good.

Hoping your someday is real soon!



Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/27/13 01:14 AM
Thanks Brainy!

This is WAY more fun!
Posted By: markos Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/27/13 03:03 AM
What a wonderful success story, wle2! Keep up the great work!

(I know you will, because the rewards are so great, aren't they? smile )
Posted By: markos Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/27/13 03:03 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
I listen to the radio program and read here everyday

Best advice anyone ever gave. smile
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/27/13 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
RQ
I also noticed that there hasn't been a lot going on. I hope that is because every body is spending so much UA time with their spouse they don't have the time.

So I thought I would give an update. My DW answered Dr. Harley's E-Mail but with a vague answer. Basically she told him that she can't think of anything that she is missing from me.

She and I have talked about what I was needing from her. I asked if she needed to write another E-Mail and she didn't seem to keen on the idea so I let it go.

Dw got it! She has really picked up her effort in SF and she is the one who wants to schedule it.I am getting text and phone calls letting me know how much she is looking forward to the day or night.
We are still between 16 to 20 hours UA and are looking for more RC we can both enjoy.

Dw started reading FIL SIL and we are still working in the 5 steps work book.

We had another milestone this past week and it pasted without me even noticing until the next day. It has been 2 years since they were last together. I call that a milestone because I never thought that date would slip my mind.

DW has done so much to make the present so good that the past doesn't linger in my mind as it once did. There is no way we could be where we are if DW had not embraced MB. It took her a while but the LB$ built up until she fell in love with me again and we are off to a great M.

I listen to the radio program and read here everyday ever wanting to improve on what we have. I love reading the responses and value the incites (NG yours too!)

I have found that I still have to be diligent not to slip into old bad habits but that's why I come here so often.

The bottom line is we now are starting to have the M we always wanted and know how to maintain it.


Cliffs notes version.


Nice work, sir!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/28/13 07:40 AM
markos,
Thank you, It is night and day from where we were to were we are now.

Having her this happy with me has had some very , very good rewards!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/28/13 07:43 AM
HHH,
Thank you.
I had forgotten how much fun it is to date my DW!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/22/13 08:04 AM
It just keeps getting better! DW and I listened to Friday's radio show together. We had a good discussion about how we still need to work on this area.

The next night we were watching a rerun of The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon and Amy were negotiating with each other over how much physical contact Sheldon would give her.

DW wife notices it and turns to me and says '"Hey, they are negotiating their problem!"

In a far better place than I was a year ago!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/11/13 08:40 PM
Well we blew right past the 2nd antiversary of D-day without an emotional or mental meltdown. DW woke yesterday morning and said happy anniversary of our new MB life.That was the only time it was mentioned and the only time we thought about it the whole day together.

We had a break through in our old RC problem this past week now that we both can be O&h with each other and DW has gone all in with MB. She and I are going to spend the next few months trying out new RC ideas until we find the one that we both enjoy as much or more than the one she does alone.

I am not sure how far away we are from full MR is but it is getting very bright in our once pitch black tunnel.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/11/13 08:55 PM
Glad to hear progress is being made.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/11/13 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I am not sure how far away we are from full MR is but it is getting very bright in our once pitch black tunnel.
Is your marriage now better than it was before? If the answer is yes, you can stamp it "recovered". There will always be things to work on, areas to improve in, and stuff to pay attention to. But that is what one expects. Those of us who have lived through the dreadful experience of infidelity will never allow complacency to exist in our marriages again. We pay attention, and work hard to keep MB principles in place.

So, congratulations on achieving this milestone.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/12/13 02:44 AM
Congrats wle on your road to recovery and a better marriage.

You're doing fantastic.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/12/13 02:36 PM
[quote=TheRoad]Glad to hear progress is being made. [/quote

TheRoad
Thanks! We are heading in the right direction...

Even in our Ford smile
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/12/13 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
Originally Posted by wle2
I am not sure how far away we are from full MR is but it is getting very bright in our once pitch black tunnel.
Is your marriage now better than it was before? If the answer is yes, you can stamp it "recovered". There will always be things to work on, areas to improve in, and stuff to pay attention to. But that is what one expects. Those of us who have lived through the dreadful experience of infidelity will never allow complacency to exist in our marriages again. We pay attention, and work hard to keep MB principles in place.

So, congratulations on achieving this milestone.

mrEureka
Thank you!

Paying attention is what we also have to make a part of our new,better marriage. The order of your words speaks volumes to me, "work hard"

As DW and I first started to implement MB concepts it was HARD WORK. Now as you said we just have to continue to WORK HARD on keeping it.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/12/13 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Congrats wle on your road to recovery and a better marriage.

You're doing fantastic.

Brainy
Thank you!

You really are one of the MB forum super heroes!


Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/13/13 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Congrats wle on your road to recovery and a better marriage.

You're doing fantastic.

Brainy
Thank you!

You really are one of the MB forum super heroes!
As you are friend.

Anyone that can survive an affair and come out on the other side a better person using the MB concepts are all super heroes!!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/19/13 08:15 PM
Had my question answered on today's program. Thought we had worked this one out until the season started.

Going to let my DW listen and see what she thinks. Contrast effect is exactly what concerns me.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/21/13 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
Had my question answered on today's program. Thought we had worked this one out until the season started.

Going to let my DW listen and see what she thinks. Contrast effect is exactly what concerns me.
What did Dr. Harley say?

What did your wife say?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/21/13 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by wle2
Had my question answered on today's program. Thought we had worked this one out until the season started.

Going to let my DW listen and see what she thinks. Contrast effect is exactly what concerns me.
What did Dr. Harley say?

What did your wife say?

Dr.Harley said that we need to make sure that we still get our high UA time in. We are still at 15 to 20 hrs. He also said that we need to find another RC activity that we would both enjoy as much as she does hunting.

He did say at first that it was only for a season and to let her hunt but she can't go alone and she only had male RC companions including me so that is out unless she can find some other women to hunt with.

He was worried about the contrast effect.No matter what we do together it will not be as enjoyable to her as what she does alone.


DW is willing to explore other RC options but can't imagine one she will like better. WE are trying to find a win/win solution and she she agreed to schedule her hunting after our UA time. She realy made me feel good when she listened and offered that one.
Posted By: LifetimeLearner Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/21/13 12:03 PM
I think you misunderstood what Dr. Harley was saying. He was stating what many people would argue in this situation but he doesn't agree with that position. He does not agree with the idea at all that since it's just for a season live with it. He often presents the most common opposing arguments to what he has learned about marriage in order to show that those ways don't work over time and lead to a broken down marriage.

The idea I got is that hunting is out because you're not going to be able to change your emotional reaction to it and because she finds hunting with or without you more enjoyable than any other recreation she has with you.

And does scheduling hunting after your UA time is checked off the list really address your problem?

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/21/13 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by LifetimeLearner
I think you misunderstood what Dr. Harley was saying. He was stating what many people would argue in this situation but he doesn't agree with that position. He does not agree with the idea at all that since it's just for a season live with it. He often presents the most common opposing arguments to what he has learned about marriage in order to show that those ways don't work over time and lead to a broken down marriage.

The idea I got is that hunting is out because you're not going to be able to change your emotional reaction to it and because she finds hunting with or without you more enjoyable than any other recreation she has with you.

And does scheduling hunting after your UA time is checked off the list really address your problem?
LTL
Thanks for clarifying that. I was a bit confused at first. We are going to keep brain storming ideas. DW likes the idea of hunting with another woman and me doing something else at the same time.

But only if we can find another RC for us would that work right?
Posted By: LifetimeLearner Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/21/13 12:40 PM

I think Dr. Harley would advise no hunting until you two are in love with each other and having a romantic marriage. He didn't advise negotiating how hunting could be worked in, he advised negotiating a new lifestyle WITHOUT it.

The solution that she hunts with a woman companion while you do something else is a solution found in what Dr. Harley calls an anarchy relationship, and at least for now won't help you two become integrated.


Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/21/13 03:00 PM
Did WW hunt with the OM?

Did WW use hunting as a way to cover her affair?

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/22/13 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by LifetimeLearner
I think Dr. Harley would advise no hunting until you two are in love with each other and having a romantic marriage. He didn't advise negotiating how hunting could be worked in, he advised negotiating a new lifestyle WITHOUT it.

The solution that she hunts with a woman companion while you do something else is a solution found in what Dr. Harley calls an anarchy relationship, and at least for now won't help you two become integrated.
I do not even want the appearance of IB. We have talked about it and She agrees we can not allow our UA time to slip. What we are struggling with is finding something that compares to it for her.

We have been each others only RC partners for the past two years. What ever we do separate I understand it would have to be in addition to what we do together.

DW says she is open to trying new RC. I guess we just haven't brainstormed it enough.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/22/13 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Did WW hunt with the OM?

Did WW use hunting as a way to cover her affair?
No wasn't anything like that. We had such IB that I never suspected a thing. She didn't need to cover it I never checked. She would just leave as if to go to work but would have called in to take the day off.

Hunting is in the backyard we live so far out in the sticks. smile
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/22/13 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
We have been each others only RC partners for the past two years. What ever we do separate I understand it would have to be in addition to what we do together.

DW says she is open to trying new RC. I guess we just haven't brainstormed it enough.
Somewhere, I have either read, or I have listened to, Dr H talk about a couple he worked with where the man's hobby was golf. The hobby took many hours away from his marriage, and the marriage was in crisis, but the man refused to countenance the idea that he could ever find anything as enjoyable as golf (which his wife couldn't play, or hated playing, or something).

In the end, he had a bad injury and couldn't play, and was forced to spend time with his wife. They found such enjoyable things to do that he never wanted to go back to golf, even when he could.

I haven't told this story at all well because I can't remember all the details, but I hope you get my point. Your wife could give up hunting today and be happier than ever if the two of you could make your time together great. None of us needs to do any one specific hobby to be happy. We just need to be happy with our spouse.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/22/13 11:05 AM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by wle2
We have been each others only RC partners for the past two years. What ever we do separate I understand it would have to be in addition to what we do together.

DW says she is open to trying new RC. I guess we just haven't brainstormed it enough.
Somewhere, I have either read, or I have listened to, Dr H talk about a couple he worked with where the man's hobby was golf. The hobby took many hours away from his marriage, and the marriage was in crisis, but the man refused to countenance the idea that he could ever find anything as enjoyable as golf (which his wife couldn't play, or hated playing, or something).

In the end, he had a bad injury and couldn't play, and was forced to spend time with his wife. They found such enjoyable things to do that he never wanted to go back to golf, even when he could.

I haven't told this story at all well because I can't remember all the details, but I hope you get my point. Your wife could give up hunting today and be happier than ever if the two of you could make your time together great. None of us needs to do any one specific hobby to be happy. We just need to be happy with our spouse.

Thanks SugarCane,
I do get your point. I heard the same story on the radio program. That is where I heard Dr. mention the contrast effect between the H golf earlier in the day and anything he and his W did the rest of the day. To the H nothing he and his W did together would be as enjoyable to him. That is why I thought Dr. Harley told him to give up golf.

That is what I am concerned about and why I E-Mailed the radio show. We are doing so well I do not want to leave any stone uncovered that might hinder or MR. We started out 33 years ago being each others best friends and favorite RC. Got married had kids and worked different shifts and I stopped making my M a priority. I know better now thanks to MB.

I may tend to over scrutinize every aspect of my M but complete neglect is how I ended up here. We are recovered enough that we do not have to be with each other 24/7. I just want to be sure that we stay above that romantic threshold.

We have time to discuss this since the season is a couple of weeks yet. Also we will be away for our up coming 31st wedding anniversary.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/22/13 09:23 PM
I don't think you're over scrutinizing.

I think you're protecting your marriage and making it your priority. I say keep going, friend.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/23/13 02:20 PM
On the way to church last night DW asked me how would I feel if we were to sell our hunting dogs and all the collars and the dog box. We have been talking about going away over night more but have to find someone to care for the critters.

This came out of the blue but I am encouraged to hear that she is giving other ideas some thought. She reiterated that she is open to other RC ideas after listening to the radio show.

I have to admit this is a new , but awesome way to have a relationship.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/04/13 01:02 PM
Just wanted to tell you guys about the amazing statement my DW made to me. We were discussing our RC and she said, "Really, when the weekend comes I am excited about just doing things with you doesn't matter what it is."

WOW, I love me some MB!

DW is off for the next week and we are celebrating our 31st. wedding anniversary this upcoming week!
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/04/13 01:50 PM
Wonderful to hear how things are going with you. And congratulations on your wedding anniversary!

dance2
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/04/13 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Just wanted to tell you guys about the amazing statement my DW made to me. We were discussing our RC and she said, "Really, when the weekend comes I am excited about just doing things with you doesn't matter what it is."

WOW, I love me some MB!

DW is off for the next week and we are celebrating our 31st. wedding anniversary this upcoming week!

hurray
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/04/13 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Just wanted to tell you guys about the amazing statement my DW made to me. We were discussing our RC and she said, "Really, when the weekend comes I am excited about just doing things with you doesn't matter what it is."

WOW, I love me some MB!

DW is off for the next week and we are celebrating our 31st. wedding anniversary this upcoming week!
That is so wonderful wle. hurray

Have an excellent anniversary, friend.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/19/13 06:57 PM
We had a great week celebrating our anniversary thank you for the well wishes.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/13 02:53 PM
Here you go.
Radio Clip of wle's question
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/13 06:29 PM
Thank's BH!

We are still working on finding other RC ideas. The time we are spending together is still high and the RC ranges from trips to festivals, antique stores in different city's,long walks, fishing, coffee around the fire pit and my favorite we stay in bed until noon on Saturday smile...Wait does that count?

DW asked about learning to trap shoot which I did in the past so that is one idea we are thinking about. DW also asked about the two of us taking a class together of some sort.

I just hope we can find the replacement that DW will enjoy as much. We are having fun trying new things.




Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/19/13 08:21 PM
Hey guys I need some help with UA ideas. My DW had an injury and has been laid up for 4 weeks. She is going stir crazy but needs to stay off her feet to avoid surgery.
Jig saw puzzle done, cards played, any ideas??
We have been having our own Bible study, we listen to the radio program together just about every day and have great discussions about what we hear.
I was wondering what else we can do while she is recovering.I have thought about a wheel chair and going to a park since she is such an outdoors girl.
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/19/13 08:28 PM
Since the Holidays are coming, you guys can decorate your own christmas cards. Or you can knit your own Christmas stockings. smile

A wheel chair is a great idea to get her outdoors, too

Wishing Mrs. Wle2 a speedy recovery!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/20/13 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Since the Holidays are coming, you guys can decorate your own christmas cards. Or you can knit your own Christmas stockings. smile

A wheel chair is a great idea to get her outdoors, too

Wishing Mrs. Wle2 a speedy recovery!

Thanks RQ!

She is very artistic that might work for her.

We go to the doctor today praying for good news!
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/20/13 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I was wondering what else we can do while she is recovering.I have thought about a wheel chair and going to a park since she is such an outdoors girl.
There may be alternatives to a wheelchair. It depends on the injury. My DD had a broken ankle, and was able to get a scooter that supported her injured leg while permitting her to move around with the uninjured one.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/20/13 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
Originally Posted by wle2
I was wondering what else we can do while she is recovering.I have thought about a wheel chair and going to a park since she is such an outdoors girl.
There may be alternatives to a wheelchair. It depends on the injury. My DD had a broken ankle, and was able to get a scooter that supported her injured leg while permitting her to move around with the uninjured one.

That's a good Idea forgot about those! I have been threatening to put her in the wheel barrow. smile
Thank's mrEureka!
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/21/13 02:26 PM
out for a drive to see the xmas lights, hot chocolate in hand �.even sounds romantic to me��learn to play a new card game together�..how about making some xmas balls for your tree, with paint, sparkly stuff�..how about putting a few little packages together for a food bank toiletries, things like that.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 11/22/13 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by jessitaylor
out for a drive to see the xmas lights, hot chocolate in hand �.even sounds romantic to me��learn to play a new card game together�..how about making some xmas balls for your tree, with paint, sparkly stuff�..how about putting a few little packages together for a food bank toiletries, things like that.

jessitaylor
Good one, we haven't driven to see Christmas lights since the DD's were little! She likes to make her own wreathes I could help with that too, thank you!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/14 02:16 PM
I was listing to the radio clip Brainy linked for clearmind. The one where 20year's e-mail question was answered. Dr. Harley said that if following the PORH she is to tell him if she has been thinking about the OM or calling OM.

I heard how the BS is to be very careful not to react to the honest disclosure in a way that would discourage future RH but I guess I missed it but what are they supposed to do with the admission, discuss it?

Or are they only to talk about EP's and not the OM? We BS are not to ever bring up the A but what if the WS does? I would like to know how others have handled this.

The reason I asked is in a recent conversion DW and I were discussing a friend who has a certain religious belief. DW said that as soon as she heard about it she thought about OM. He had the same belief. I was not expecting to hear that. I did not do anything as far as LB's but didn't know if I should question her more about her thoughts about this or let it go.

Posted By: Everthesame Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/14 03:11 PM
What I have realized is that our WS can be triggered as well. And their triggers bring feelings of guilt, anger and sadness.

I would handle her triggers the same as she would yours by giving her a big hug and reminding her how much you love her.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 01/04/14 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
What I have realized is that our WS can be triggered as well. And their triggers bring feelings of guilt, anger and sadness.

I would handle her triggers the same as she would yours by giving her a big hug and reminding her how much you love her.

Thank's RQ,

I understand about her triggers and try not to be the cause of those.

This was in a conversation where she mentioned OM.

I was not sure if talking about it further would be going against my agreeing to not bring up her A or any of her mistakes of the past .

We were talking about something he said not about the A per- say.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 07:10 AM
I got a call from a crying DW telling me that the OM was at her work. She ran to the bathroom and called me.I got into the car a headed up there. I have had his phone number in my wallet for over two years so on the way up there I called him.

He did not answer the phone then but called me back asking who this was. I told him my name asked if this was POSOM. After a long pause It said "Hey man how are you doing?"

I just said you need to leave my wife alone. I am on my way up there now. I told him that I love her, and we have been working hard on recovering our marriage over the last two plus years.

I told him again that I am going to fight for her and that he needs to leave her alone and that I am still on the way. He said that he has left and that he will never come up there again.

He keep apologizing, I told him that I am now the husband I should have been then and he needs to leave her alone. I told him that I do not know his spiritual condition but that he needs to get right. I am going to be there shortly.

Again apologizing and that he did not know she was going to be there.I then told him that I know all the details and I knew how this started and that nothing but God is more important to me than her,leave.

He was not there by the time I got there. My DW was still shaken but was worried about me. She called me as soon as she saw him. He tried to talk to her but she told him he needed to leave and started back out. He left.

I have to figure out how to shore up our EP's at the work place. I do not know what to do here. I do not believe he will come back after this but do not want to leave our marriage exposed to even the possible threat of a breach of NC.

Any suggestions?

I am second guessing myself about warning him that I was on the way.
Posted By: FightTheFight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 12:04 PM
I think what you did was pretty awesome. You were her knight in shining armor!
Posted By: armymama Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 03:00 PM
I agree.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 03:06 PM
Forgive me for not reading your whole thread, but I did read your signature and it says that a NC text was sent to OM.

What did it say? Did you see it before it was sent, or did you see a copy in the sent file?

Since OM has made contact again I wonder if the text was not received or if it pulled punches, making you wife sound sorry to have to break up with OM. Did it hold out some hope for him?

It would probably be a good idea to send the NC letter Dr H provides in the book SaA, since this was not sent at the time. Your wife should write in by hand and you should check and post it. Send it recorded delivery.

Posted By: SugarCane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 03:17 PM
Okay, I just read your post properly, and I am alarmed by something else. OM was not looking for your wife since he said that he did not know she would be there, so from that I gather that he has some work-based reason to be at her workplace. What is that reason?

Do they work for the same company? If so, have you not been advised on this thread that she should leave that job?
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I got a call from a crying DW telling me that the OM was at her work. She ran to the bathroom and called me.I got into the car a headed up there. I have had his phone number in my wallet for over two years so on the way up there I called him.

Bravo! She came through, friend. She proved that she has your back.

You called that POS and let him know what was up!

I think you both did fantastic. Many BS's want to validate that when the 's' hits the fan, our FWS's will be there for us. She did that for you.



Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 03:37 PM
FTF, armymama,
thanks for the vote of confidence! I drove up there as fast as I could. DW told me thank you twice for coming up there for her.

SugarCane,
I did not see the text she told me what it said. She told him that she loves her family and not to ever contact her again.

He tried to contact her about a month later through E-mail. I caught it and we changed it and blocked him. No contact in over two years until last night.

I agree with you that we need to send another NC letter. I do not know his address he lives in another state. Thank you for helping me once again.

We are far down the MR road and have been enjoying each others company and have flew past the romantic love threshold! She told me last night that she has me and that is all she wants and that she loves me more than she ever has. MB is the only reason we are where we are now. God has blessed me with this plan and you wonderful posters!

I went to sleep about 4am this morning and my DW is home safe asleep. We talked before she had to lay down and She did everything I had asked her to do if this were to happen. WE both want to close this EP gap.

DW understands the concept of RH and told me that her fear was for me and what I would do and that all of our progress would be set back. I reassured her that I would never stop fighting for her and our marriage. I thanked her for her quick response in calling me.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 03:45 PM
Thank you 20YearHistory.
I am very thankful for her reaction and how she handled this and told her so. Honestly she was more upset that I might be hurt than anything else.

DW has thanked me twice with tears streaming down those beautiful cheeks for driving to her. She said thank you for fighting for me! I just want to be the husband for her that I should have been years ago! MB has shown me how to be that man!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 04:04 PM
SugarCain
We think he knew she would be there last night. DW has to return to the 3rd shift temporally and this was her first night back on this shift. Very suspicious that he shows up on the very night she is to return to this work shift. This is the shift she was on during the A.

POSOM does not work there he had to retire and lives in another state I verified this through the Net and through other co-workers and his brother.

He told me that he wanted to get his son hired there and he knows alot of the people working here. I am calling B*** Sh**

He was there at night to try and see her. She had no idea he was even there until she walked in and saw him. I know when she gets to work so I know she had not even clocked in when she was in the bathroom calling me.

We have decided to go to her shift manager and tell him about her concerns with POSOM who is not an employee having access to her work.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/24/14 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Originally Posted by wle2
I got a call from a crying DW telling me that the OM was at her work. She ran to the bathroom and called me.I got into the car a headed up there. I have had his phone number in my wallet for over two years so on the way up there I called him.

Bravo! She came through, friend. She proved that she has your back.

You called that POS and let him know what was up!

I think you both did fantastic. Many BS's want to validate that when the 's' hits the fan, our FWS's will be there for us. She did that for you.

So true.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/25/14 07:48 PM
The good news is that your defenses held, but the bad news is that they were tested at all. You now know that you are dealing with a guy who hasn't given up. Is there any kind of additional exposure you can do on him pursuant to this attempted contact that might drive him away for good?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/25/14 11:24 PM
mrEureka
I agree and that is why we are going to speak to her plant manger. She is going to write a NC letter and have the manger get to him.

Once the company knows he was allowed into the work place unsupervised and the details we believe he will be keep from accessing her work place.

we did not expose at work originally since he did not work there any longer, I see now in hind sight that was a big mistake.

Thank you for the reminder!

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 12:50 AM
Hey guys this is DW's NC letter:

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly (WLE2),who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed wholly and fully to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am working hard to be the best wife that (WLE2) deserves.
Because of the terrible offense I've done to (WLE2) and the damage I did to our marriage I have permanently ended all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity and heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you NEVER attempt to contact me in any way at any time ever again.
(WLE2) has all the details of our relationship and he will be told again of any further attempts at contact.

What do you think? would you add/change anything?
Posted By: FightTheFight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 03:26 PM
I think it's perfect. And I think he will take it seriously since he just found out that if she even sees him she is calling you right away.

I'd also add that what you did originally regarding workplace exposure was right in line with what Dr Harley recommends in the newest edition of SAA. So I wouldn't beat myself up about it.
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 03:39 PM
I think that letter is very much in accordance with the No Contact portion of MB concepts.

I am just thinking out loud though here..... Does anyone feel that adding one final statement about if the POSOM EVER tries to come into contact with your W ever again, then a Restraining Order will be pursued very aggressively with filing a Restraining Order against him.

LTL
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by FightTheFight
I think it's perfect. And I think he will take it seriously since he just found out that if she even sees him she is calling you right away.

I'd also add that what you did originally regarding workplace exposure was right in line with what Dr Harley recommends in the newest edition of SAA. So I wouldn't beat myself up about it.

FTF Thanks
I missed that. I just got a call from her and she talked to her boss and he said that he would personally call POSOM and tell him to stay away.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I think that letter is very much in accordance with the No Contact portion of MB concepts.

I am just thinking out loud though here..... Does anyone feel that adding one final statement about if the POSOM EVER tries to come into contact with your W ever again, then a Restraining Order will be pursued very aggressively with filing a Restraining Order against him.

LTL

LTL thank you also for the imput!
What you are saying is it needs to be worded stronger is that correct?
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I think that letter is very much in accordance with the No Contact portion of MB concepts.

I am just thinking out loud though here..... Does anyone feel that adding one final statement about if the POSOM EVER tries to come into contact with your W ever again, then a Restraining Order will be pursued very aggressively with filing a Restraining Order against him.

LTL

LTL thank you also for the imput!
What you are saying is it needs to be worded stronger is that correct?

You have this one time unique opportunity to come down heavy handed, even more so than just the very well written response your W already drafted. I think that the both of you representing a Strong Unified Team standing together stating that NO breaking of the NC EP's will kick this POSOM further down the curb.

Did your W write that draft on her own, or did you make suggestions on the wording or use one of the NC templates from this site?

If that original draft is all her own wording, i highly commend her for strictly adhering to continuing Just Compensation. If so, you should be very proud of the changes she has made in herself and please make sure to affirm your appreciation for her efforts and mind frame.

LTL
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 04:18 PM
The letter doesn't "Need" to be more firmly worded, but i think it's an admirable joint action to firmly relay how serious you both feel.

LTL
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I think that letter is very much in accordance with the No Contact portion of MB concepts.

I am just thinking out loud though here..... Does anyone feel that adding one final statement about if the POSOM EVER tries to come into contact with your W ever again, then a Restraining Order will be pursued very aggressively with filing a Restraining Order against him.

LTL

LTL thank you also for the imput!
What you are saying is it needs to be worded stronger is that correct?

You have this one time unique opportunity to come down heavy handed, even more so than just the very well written response your W already drafted. I think that the both of you representing a Strong Unified Team standing together stating that NO breaking of the NC EP's will kick this POSOM further down the curb.

Did your W write that draft on her own, or did you make suggestions on the wording or use one of the NC templates from this site?

If that original draft is all her own wording, i highly commend her for strictly adhering to continuing Just Compensation. If so, you should be very proud of the changes she has made in herself and please make sure to affirm your appreciation for her efforts and mind frame.

LTL

LTL'
She set down and read three letters. 2 from the Forum and one from SAA.

She then set down and wrote it out on her own. She handed it to me to read and the only thing I suggested was she add one word. The rest is all my DW's

She liked the second one in the Notable post thread and that is the one she based her's on.

I am extremely proud of her and have told her so several times. She has deposited so many LB$ by her fierce defense of our marriage and me!

She had her meeting with her boss today and she told him about the whole affair and said that she has worked very hard at recovering our marriage and cannot work with POSOM coming in at anytime.

He said that that will not happen again that he would personally take care of that. She pushed through her shame and embarrassment and this morning when she got home she told me I was worth it. laugh



Posted By: mrEureka Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 07:17 PM
I can readily relate to what you two are going through, because the experience for me and my wife would be identical if POSOM ever tried to make contact with her.

I think you both are handling it perfectly.
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
She had her meeting with her boss today and she told him about the whole affair and said that she has worked very hard at recovering our marriage and cannot work with POSOM coming in at anytime.

He said that that will not happen again that he would personally take care of that. She pushed through her shame and embarrassment and this morning when she got home she told me I was worth it. laugh

Did this make any LB deposits in her LB account with you? It would for me.

Again, she is PROVING to you through her actions that she is committed to your marriage. She is not afraid to stand up for you. Just awesome.

What a beautiful thing. Maybe you could consider taking her out on a night she will never forget??? Reward her for such a thoughtful act by showering her with your love and affection.

I can imagine that this is really bringing both of you together.

How have you been reacting to this? Have you maintained your composure by keeping your cool and thanked her? It could be very easy to be triggered by this and go into withdraw. I hope you are allowing this to be a bonding experience!


Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
I can readily relate to what you two are going through, because the experience for me and my wife would be identical if POSOM ever tried to make contact with her.

I think you both are handling it perfectly.

+1...although he seems to be keeping his cool with that POS much better than I probably would smile
Posted By: Gamma Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 08:51 PM
Wle2,

He told me that he wanted to get his son hired there and he knows alot of the people working here.

Does this son of OM know what his father did? How widespread was exposure of OM.

Amazing that OM is still in the fog about your W.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Originally Posted by wle2
She had her meeting with her boss today and she told him about the whole affair and said that she has worked very hard at recovering our marriage and cannot work with POSOM coming in at anytime.

He said that that will not happen again that he would personally take care of that. She pushed through her shame and embarrassment and this morning when she got home she told me I was worth it. laugh

Did this make any LB deposits in her LB account with you? It would for me.

Again, she is PROVING to you through her actions that she is committed to your marriage. She is not afraid to stand up for you. Just awesome.

What a beautiful thing. Maybe you could consider taking her out on a night she will never forget??? Reward her for such a thoughtful act by showering her with your love and affection.

I can imagine that this is really bringing both of you together.

How have you been reacting to this? Have you maintained your composure by keeping your cool and thanked her? It could be very easy to be triggered by this and go into withdraw. I hope you are allowing this to be a bonding experience!
20year'
It is off the charts how many LB$ she deposited! I know how hard it was for her to speak to her boss.

There is a bouquet of flowers on the table for her to wake up to as I write this. I have been telling how much her protecting me and our marriage has made me love her even more.

I was hugging her yesterday evening and asked if she were alright and how did this contact make her feel.

She said " Mad, upset,I want you, look who's arms I'm in! I will do what ever I have to do to make you feel safe."

As far as keeping my composure, She told me as soon as it happened. The POSOM was not there when I got there.

I told him three times during our phone conversation I was on the way up there, I do not know for sure if I would have been as civil in person.

I think my calm level voice talking to him unnerved him some. I did not yell or curse just repeated that he leave my wife alone. And asking about his spiritual condition may have helped also.

It has been a bonding experience and that is primarily because of her reaction and taking the initiative in writing the letter and speaking to her plant manager as soon as she could.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Wle2,

He told me that he wanted to get his son hired there and he knows alot of the people working here.

Does this son of OM know what his father did? How widespread was exposure of OM.

Amazing that OM is still in the fog about your W.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma

After this the prospects of POSOM's son getting hired is null. The Manager DW spoke to was upset that POSOM was on the property especially on an off shift.

I believe that was a lie because the same manager does the hiring and he is on the day shift. He was there to see my wife!

He did not leave the company on good terms anyway. I am surprised also about his sniffing around. She will only have to be on this shift for about a month or less.

We did not expose at work when this started. She told the manager today. He "had" to retire and had been gone a few years when the A started so we did not think we needed to expose at work.

I do not know his son at all.
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
It is off the charts how many LB$ she deposited! I know how hard it was for her to speak to her boss.


She told me as soon as it happened.

These 2 points alone signal a strong recovery! Couldn't be happier for you.

Sometimes I kind of wish my FWW could be 'tested' in this way to see if her walls would hold strong.

On the other hand I don't! We haven't had a situation yet in our R that has tested us in this way. Good or bad...I don't know... Part of me feels that she would be strong as a rock...the other part of me wonders.

Again, so happy for you. Really a great outcome to a tricky situation.





Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/26/14 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Originally Posted by wle2
It is off the charts how many LB$ she deposited! I know how hard it was for her to speak to her boss.


She told me as soon as it happened.

These 2 points alone signal a strong recovery! Couldn't be happier for you.

Sometimes I kind of wish my FWW could be 'tested' in this way to see if her walls would hold strong.

On the other hand I don't! We haven't had a situation yet in our R that has tested us in this way. Good or bad...I don't know... Part of me feels that she would be strong as a rock...the other part of me wonders.

Again, so happy for you. Really a great outcome to a tricky situation.

Thank you! I am so proud of her!
My friend you don't want this! Driving there Sunday night was the longest trip and my mind was racing!

I hate she had to see him in person and don't want to have it happen again.

I would not be here were it not for MB! MY DW has latched on to the principles.

Thank you again!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/27/14 12:20 PM
When DW got home we talked about what she was feeling after having talked to her manager. She said she was nervous, embarrassed but determined to do what she has to for us.

She looked at me and said EP's right. Then she said remember how I told you you saved me when you found out I was having an A, you saved me again Sunday night by coming up there for me.

Okay,my face hurts from the big dopey grin that has been on it for the past 24 hours!

We have looked at our other EP's to see if there are any other weak points. DW' s H&O and transparency now coupled with the work exposure has filled that gap.

We talked about how we need to be aware of potential threats to our marriage. If I would have known 10 years ago that he had hit on her at work I would be able to take precautions to protect us.

Now that we have a MB M she said she not only would tell me if anyone ever does make advances towards her again but she even went so far as to say that she will tell me if she were to have feelings for anyone.

Again the grin just won't go away.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/27/14 12:39 PM
Hurts?

Put some ice on that face.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/27/14 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Hurts?

Put some ice on that face.

TheRoad

Don't mention Ice to a Georgia boy, Our state might shut down for two days! blush

Actually you are the first one to apply some healing ice over two years ago. You were the first one to respond to my cry's for help on this forum, Thank you for all the help and guidance.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/28/14 12:33 AM
Well if you insist I will take all the credit. MrRollieEyes


Though many of the MB Big Guns rolled in to help such as Pepperband, MSS.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/28/14 03:17 AM
Yes there are some real MB MVP's that I will forever be thankful for!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 02/28/14 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
When DW got home we talked about what she was feeling after having talked to her manager. She said she was nervous, embarrassed but determined to do what she has to for us.

She looked at me and said EP's right. Then she said remember how I told you you saved me when you found out I was having an A, you saved me again Sunday night by coming up there for me.

Okay,my face hurts from the big dopey grin that has been on it for the past 24 hours!

We have looked at our other EP's to see if there are any other weak points. DW' s H&O and transparency now coupled with the work exposure has filled that gap.

We talked about how we need to be aware of potential threats to our marriage. If I would have known 10 years ago that he had hit on her at work I would be able to take precautions to protect us.

Now that we have a MB M she said she not only would tell me if anyone ever does make advances towards her again but she even went so far as to say that she will tell me if she were to have feelings for anyone.

Again the grin just won't go away.
That's fantastic news, wle.

It's so good that you both are following EPs and take extraordinary care for each other.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/01/14 12:36 AM
Thank's Brainy!!

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/01/14 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
Thank's Brainy!!
You and FWW did the hard work. Keep it up, friend. hurray
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/01/14 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
She looked at me and said EP's right. Then she said remember how I told you you saved me when you found out I was having an A, you saved me again Sunday night by coming up there for me.


Ding, ding, ding!


Wives don't want a sad, soggy log of a man. Must of us BHs tend to get all soft at first (I was for approximately 7 days).


Be a hunter. Be an alpha. Be... The Rock!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/01/14 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Originally Posted by wle2
She looked at me and said EP's right. Then she said remember how I told you you saved me when you found out I was having an A, you saved me again Sunday night by coming up there for me.


Ding, ding, ding!


Wives don't want a sad, soggy log of a man. Must of us BHs tend to get all soft at first (I was for approximately 7 days).


Be a hunter. Be an alpha. Be... The Rock!

HHH

You are so right, I have been reaping the benefits of taking that path all week! grin

We have worked very hard to fall back in love with each other over the past 2 plus years. New RC, 20 hrs.UA weekly.

This one act was over the top for DW. She has mentioned it at least twice a day since! Lesson learned!

Never stop pursuing/ protecting your wife.
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 03/01/14 04:33 AM
Originally Posted by wle2
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Originally Posted by wle2
She looked at me and said EP's right. Then she said remember how I told you you saved me when you found out I was having an A, you saved me again Sunday night by coming up there for me.


Ding, ding, ding!


Wives don't want a sad, soggy log of a man. Must of us BHs tend to get all soft at first (I was for approximately 7 days).


Be a hunter. Be an alpha. Be... The Rock!

HHH

You are so right, I have been reaping the benefits of taking that path all week! grin

We have worked very hard to fall back in love with each other over the past 2 plus years. New RC, 20 hrs.UA weekly.

This one act was over the top for DW. She has mentioned it at least twice a day since! Lesson learned!

Never stop pursuing/ protecting your wife.


It's buried under 4 years of posting, but I once posted a study about Gibbons.


You see, we talk all the time about different species that "mate for life." For instance, birds. But, they have found that a fair percentage of male birds are cuckolded into raising hatchlings for other fathers. And, I'm quite sure that many of those are off sneaking into other nests as well.



But.... Gibbons.


Gibbons have an infidelity rate below 10%.

Why?

Well, because when gibbons pair, the pair carve out an area all their own - and when any intruder enters the area, the partner of the same-sex as the intruder chases it off! The female gibbons defend their males. The males defend their females!


Hey, hey, we're just monkeys. People say we monkey around...
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/23/14 01:31 PM
Ok I made a mistake!

The NC letter was not sent and was given back to my DW. Supervisor said he can't get the address. I dropped the ball on this. It has been two months since POSOM crawled out from under his rock.

Should I still send it? How do I find his address, should I pay a PI to be sure it is delivered?

We have been off the charts in our MR, both of us are madly in love with each other and have found new ways to spend our RC.

I do not want to leave anything undone that will hurt our MR in the future.

What do you guys think, send it? Heading out most of the day but will appreciate any help!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/23/14 01:42 PM
A PI should be able to get his address and then have your attorney mail it, return receipt requested.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/23/14 01:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
A PI should be able to get his address and then have your attorney mail it, return receipt requested.
I agree.

You know the guys name, correct? Have you done a background check?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/23/14 07:28 PM
Thanks Jedi,
I will find a PI first. Might have to drive into a bigger town but that's no problem.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/23/14 07:30 PM
Brainy,
I do know "it's" name but have not done a back ground check.

Thanks
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/23/14 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Brainy,
I do know "it's" name but have not done a back ground check.

Thanks
Haha

It will most likely be cheaper(~50) than a PI. Let us know how it goes.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/24/14 07:14 PM
Holy busted wallet Batman!

First PI I contacted wants $700 to get me the address only. The back ground check is probably going to be my route.

Any company suggestions?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/24/14 07:17 PM
Do you at least know what county he lives in?
How can you have no contact info if she had an affair with him?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/25/14 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Do you at least know what county he lives in?
How can you have no contact info if she had an affair with him?
Jedi,
I know his name, cell phone number,E-Mail and birthday and that he lives in Tennessee.

He would come in to town and they would meet at the same motel. I made many mistakes at the beginning of this and that is why I am having to deal with it now.

You are right I should have had all this information two and a half years ago.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/27/14 02:02 AM
One point to consider: A PI has additional resources available to him that standard online background checks dont
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/27/14 06:37 PM
Thanks Jedi,

I thought about that and they do have the resources to verify. I used a membership service and found the address.

I am trying to verify it myself before I have it sent.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 04/28/14 02:36 AM
One way easy way to verify is to go to the County Tax Assessor Website, and do an online search of the address.
It will tell you who owns the property and the tax mailing address.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/28/14 11:29 AM
Just thought I would give an update. Dr. Harley answered my E-mail question on the Wednesday the 25th show and my DW's on the Friday's show.

I wrote in because my dear wife made a comment about the way I was acting a couple of weeks ago and I suddenly realized I needed to correct it before I destroyed what we had worked so hard to rebuild. The best way to describe it is like in a bad movie when someone is totally freaking out and the calm one has to slap the the guy to snap them out of it. My DW is the calm one!

I knew I was obsessing over the calendar dates but didn't realize I was manifesting it out in a way she would notice. Thanks to MB she addressed it and I recognized what the underlying problem was.

Without thinking about it I was complaining to my DW that we need to spend more time together, more than the 20 hours we were already doing. I blamed it on My grown daughter who had to move back in and my grandson who wanted to stay with us. I blamed anybody that in my mind keep us from being alone.

My wonderful DW said you are only doing this I notice when we have others here are you sure it is our UA time, we are still getting our hours in.

Like I said it was as if she splashed cold water into my face, in a good way. I started to think about it and finally put two and two together, It did not bother me when the others were there except when close to one of the dates I was obsessing over.

That's why I wrote the show and I am going to try the tranquilizers Dr. Harley recommended. My DW is so understanding and I am so proud of her for helping me correct this before it ballooned into something that would harm our M.

We are on the way to a marriage retreat at our church today and I really, really love my bride!

On a side note my DD is to trying and work it out so she can move back out. MY DW and I think it is because she came home early last and walked in on us... let's say enjoying each others company! smile
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/28/14 01:32 PM
I heard your email on the radio show, and I knew from the description of the OM showing up at your wife's work that the emailer was you. There are many similarities between your situation and mine. A major difference is that I don't have problems with dates. When the third anniversary of DDay rolled around, I completely missed it. Your email to Dr. Harley started me wondering what might be different between you and me. I think a big difference is that my family moved after the affair. I no longer deal with all of those subtle latent triggers that existed before. That helps a lot.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/29/14 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
I heard your email on the radio show, and I knew from the description of the OM showing up at your wife's work that the emailer was you. There are many similarities between your situation and mine. A major difference is that I don't have problems with dates. When the third anniversary of DDay rolled around, I completely missed it. Your email to Dr. Harley started me wondering what might be different between you and me. I think a big difference is that my family moved after the affair. I no longer deal with all of those subtle latent triggers that existed before. That helps a lot.

mrEureka,
I am starting to think the same thing. We have been talking of putting our house and land on the market and moving towards our grand-babies. DW can retire in 1 1/2 years so we have been looking.

I would love to start some where new.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/29/14 08:05 AM
I thought I would share some of the good things we have discovered. DW had to change her work schedule. She now alternates being off Friday ,Saturday and Sunday one week then Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday the following.

We started looking for new RC that we both would enjoy and found two we are really are having fun with. River fishing and antique'n.

DW loves to fish.I can fish. We negotiated and using POJA and decided that we would fish at least one day or more together but only on a river. We live near one and can have lines in the water 10 minutes after we leave the house. WE are together for the whole time, talking and having fun together.

The second one we plot out a trip to several antique stores or estate sales and spend the whole day riding together. We have a list of things we are hunting for and have to explain to our family and friends that it is the hunt with each-other that we are wanting most even though we can buy it for less on the internet.

One of the high lights of our day is our prayer time together before she leaves for work. I pray for and with her everyday. We are not there yet but have found a way to fall in love with each other again using MB. Meeting top EN's and no LB's coupled with POJA has moved us so far we amazed.

If I can stop auditioning for the lead role in One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest we will be fine. Going to the doctor this week. Working on the house to try and sale this fall.

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/30/14 01:02 PM
Here's your show.
Radio Clip of wle2's show
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/30/14 06:22 PM
Thanks Brainy, You're the best!
Posted By: walrus Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/30/14 06:45 PM
Since some dates are triggers to you, what do you think about updating your signature and editing anything that triggers you?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/01/14 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by walrus
Since some dates are triggers to you, what do you think about updating your signature and editing anything that triggers you?

walrus,
I like it and thanks, I didn't think about this.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/01/14 01:11 PM
Dw got out our copy of HN/HN and is re-reading it. She said she understands that there is nothing she can do to help me with the issue of dates per Dr. Harley's response but she says she wants continue meeting my needs and be sure not to hurt me.

I can't get in to the doctor until after the Fourth of July holiday, but since I am a month away from the next trigger date I I will be Okay.

We are talking more about the house and are leaning towards the move.



Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/01/14 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Thanks Brainy, You're the best!
You're very welcome, friend.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/02/14 11:57 PM
Here's your wife's show. I tried to find her thread but couldn't. Didn't she start a thread of her own (MEE2)?

Radio Clip of wle2's wife's question
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/03/14 02:39 PM
Brainy,

She went so far as to register and set it up but never posted anything. I listed it next to her name thinking she was going to post.

The last time we talked about it she said she doesn't even remember her password and I just left it alone.

I read here everyday but she said it is too painful for her. She does listen to the radio show with me so though.


Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/03/14 02:55 PM
Ok gotcha, thanks. What does she think of the advice the Harleys gave you two?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/03/14 05:39 PM
She is on board with the idea and is the one that noticed my anxiety. She is relived that there is nothing she did or did not do in our recovery that triggers me.

At our church marriage conference this past weekend she was telling some of the other ladies there about MB and how we used the principles in our recovery, I thought that was awesome!

I have been doing a lot of thinking about my ....obsessive thinking laugh and believe with some help on just a couple of the bad days it will get better.

Posted By: mrEureka Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 07/03/14 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
I have been doing a lot of thinking about my ....obsessive thinking laugh and believe with some help on just a couple of the bad days it will get better.
It will always be possible for you upset yourself if you choose to indulge. I can still work myself up. I choose not to. It helps to be free from triggers. But in the final analysis, you have to stop thinking about the affair. You have to put it behind you. It is much easier to do this if you have a romantic relationship with your wife. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir, here.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/01/14 12:40 PM
Does anyone remember the prison ministry Dr. Harley mentions on the radio program? Thank's My tired brain can't remember!
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/01/14 01:38 PM
I believe Dr. Harley talks about Prison Fellowship, headed by Chuck Colson, doesn't he?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/01/14 09:08 PM
That's it! Thank you LongWayFromHome😊


Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/09/14 05:58 PM
My bride and I are celebrating our 32nd wedding anniversary today!

THANK YOU MB!!
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/09/14 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
My bride and I are celebrating our 32nd wedding anniversary today!

THANK YOU MB!!

Many happy congratulations on your wedding anniversary. Wishing you many more wonderfully romantic years together.
smile
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/09/14 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
My bride and I are celebrating our 32nd wedding anniversary today!

THANK YOU MB!!
dance2
Happy Anniversary!!!
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/12/14 10:12 PM
You did the work.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/13/14 02:14 PM
Longway, Brainy thank you for the well wishes, The Road it was the hardest work I have ever done, but so worth it now.

It has stopped being work and is just how we are living our lives together. Very much in love with each other.

We had a great time together this week celebrating and she cried her eyes out when she heard Joyce wish us a happy anniversary on the radio program Friday, she didn't know I had written.

On the actual day my bride had to work so I put on a tie, picked up rose and meet her for lunch at her workplace. She was one happy Lady that afternoon, I was one happy guy that evening!!

This new MB marriage we have now is far and away the best we have had and we are continuing to work on our weak points. Getting a handle on my thought life was a chore in the end we opted not to go with medication. We were able to get through the dates by focusing on each other. Considering a move also has us occupied.

Not slipping back into old habits is our fear and we both check our selves to keep that from happening by regularly checking in with the other, IC and RH Something we used to never do.

I feel extremely blessed to have gotten here , we both feel as though we can say that now we are... Fully Recovered!
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/11/16 06:23 PM
Just wanted to say that DW and I blew by the 5th year anti-versary of D-Day and didn't bat an eye!

We have incorporated MB principles into our M and it has become second nature to us.

DW and I were even asked to tell about our journey to recovery this summer with a group of young married couples in a marriage class at our church. Of course we were all over MB and the importance of the principles found here.

We are more in love with each other than ever...there is hope here. Follow the plan!

Thank's MB!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/12/16 01:09 PM
hurray thank you so much for the wonderful update.
Posted By: Lorax Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/07/16 09:20 AM
I have been up all night reading your story here, wle2, and I have to say I'm in tears.
I'm a BS, and we're at 5 months from DDay. You give me hope. You give me inspiration. All of the responders have been amazing. It is encouraging me to begin the MB program full time.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/07/16 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by Lorax
I have been up all night reading your story here, wle2, and I have to say I'm in tears.
I'm a BS, and we're at 5 months from DDay. You give me hope. You give me inspiration. All of the responders have been amazing. It is encouraging me to begin the MB program full time.
Welcome to MB Lorax. Do you want to start your own thread so we may help you?
Posted By: Lorax Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 09/08/16 03:17 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by Lorax
I have been up all night reading your story here, wle2, and I have to say I'm in tears.
I'm a BS, and we're at 5 months from DDay. You give me hope. You give me inspiration. All of the responders have been amazing. It is encouraging me to begin the MB program full time.
Welcome to MB Lorax. Do you want to start your own thread so we may help you?

Yes, I will start my own thread, but wanted to acknowledge the inspiration of wel2's first. I've been preparing myself to feel that crushing pain and anger in talking about what happened. I'm looking forward to the journey...
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/17 01:22 AM
Dear MB family
It is with a broken heart that I am back here tonight. My bride went home to be with our LORD on Tuesday the 17th. She was 56.

We just celebrated our 35th wedding anniversary on Oct. the 9th.

Thank you Dr. Harley for MB.

Thank you MB forum.

My DW and I were deeply in love and had a great romantic marriage.

My family and I laid her to rest this morning. She is with her Saviour. I am all alone in this house tonight. My two DD's and family have been with me every hour until this afternoon. I am exhausted. My eyes hurt from the tears that just come in waves but I had to come here and praise her.

After our God my DW became the greatest joy of my life. She took it upon herself to become the wife of my dreams and she excelled at it. What only MB can teach She also allowed me to be her dream husband.

Our love will not end it was carried with her into eternity.

I miss her terribly, I love her so!

Wle2








Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/17 05:16 AM
I�m so sorry for your loss. You�re in my prayers. hug
Posted By: markos Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/17 10:41 AM
I am so sorry, wle2. God bless you and all of your family and loved ones right now.
Posted By: armymama Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/17 05:46 PM
So sorry, wie2. May God provide you with comfort and peace.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/17 07:05 PM
Please accept my condolences on the loss of your wife.

I can identify strongly with you. My wife and I were married the same year as you, she had her affair at about the same time as your wife, and we both have now fully recovered.

You are in my prayers.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/22/17 10:52 PM
Dear ole,

I'm so sorry to hear this. Your story was such an inspiration, and I'm glad that you were happy until the end. My prayers go out for you and your family.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/17 06:50 AM
Thank you.
I still believe you are the super hero of this forum. God bless you BrainHurts

Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/17 06:54 AM
Markos is Thank you for all your wisdom and sharing your story.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/17 06:59 AM
armymama thank you. You are so kind.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/17 07:02 AM
MrEureka thank you. I have always treasured your input for that very reason.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/17 07:08 AM
SugarCane thank you. I always appreciated your advice.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/17 07:13 AM
I am staying with my eldest DD and only have my phone. Sorry I did not replay sooner. I can't sleep and think I need to go back home. Again thank you all.
I had a GREAT MB marriage!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/23/17 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Thank you.
I still believe you are the super hero of this forum. God bless you BrainHurts
You�re so kind, my friend.

I�m so glad you�re part of our MB family and like others have said your story was very inspirational.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/25/17 11:19 PM
Your love story is inspiring. I am so thankful you found MB and became a success.
The happy ending were these last years you had together.

I am so sorry for your loss.
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 10/30/17 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Your love story is inspiring. I am so thankful you found MB and became a success.
The happy ending were these last years you had together.

I am so sorry for your loss.

Thank you Lexxxy,
I was a blessed man, I was able to make my DW fall in love with me twice!
Thanks to MB
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/10/18 01:30 PM
Today is surprisingly hard for me. I haven�t been affected by this date in years.
Today was D-Day 7 years ago.
The first one after MDW�s passing
We had gotten to the point in our recovered MB marriage that we didn�t even take notice.
But this morning I am so sad.
I remember hearing Dr. Harley� say in his video that to some an affair is more painful than Death of a spouse; I guess I am one of those �someone�s�
I feel so bad for thinking about this but I can�t stop.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/10/18 02:39 PM
I think that the mourning of the affair has been brought back by the mourning for your wife. If she were still with you, you'd be thriving in the recovered marriage that you described to us here, and the affair would be unimportant.

This too shall pass, and one day you'll remember your recent happiness again, and the past will remain distant. You're in my prayers.
Posted By: markos Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/10/18 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Today is surprisingly hard for me. I haven�t been affected by this date in years.
Today was D-Day 7 years ago.
The first one after MDW�s passing
We had gotten to the point in our recovered MB marriage that we didn�t even take notice.
But this morning I am so sad.
I remember hearing Dr. Harley� say in his video that to some an affair is more painful than Death of a spouse; I guess I am one of those �someone�s�
I feel so bad for thinking about this but I can�t stop.

I am so sorry, wle. Be good to yourself.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/10/18 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by wle2
Today is surprisingly hard for me. I haven�t been affected by this date in years.
Today was D-Day 7 years ago.
The first one after MDW�s passing
We had gotten to the point in our recovered MB marriage that we didn�t even take notice.
But this morning I am so sad.
I remember hearing Dr. Harley� say in his video that to some an affair is more painful than Death of a spouse; I guess I am one of those �someone�s�
I feel so bad for thinking about this but I can�t stop.
I�m so sorry you�re having a hard day, my friend. hug How is your support system?
Posted By: wle2 Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 08/11/18 03:37 AM
SugarCane, markos and as always BrainHurts
I guess I just needed to come back here to read your words and seek the comfort and guidance I did back then.
Oh my we were hitting on all cylinders completely head over heels in love when she left so Sugar Cain you are correct.
As the day closes here in Georgia I feel better. I will markos!
BrainHurts I have a strong support group around me of family , friends and church.
Thank y�all so much for the years of help given me and so many others God bless!
Wle2
Posted By: ClearlyNow Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/16/21 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
[quote=wle2]

It's also important to note that you are NOT supposed to bring up the A, at all. It only brings the past into the present - as we say around here. Dr. Harley is very clear that even with the policy of radical honesty that discussing the affair - or triggers - only reminds you both of the betrayal. It is difficult to grasp how you are supposed to be open with your spouse while not bringing up the trigger, I know. I had a whole discussion on it on my thread.

At what point should the FBW not bring up the A any more?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Asked why, wish I had not! - 06/16/21 11:36 PM
ClearlyNow, is this an issue that affects you directly?

Why not start your own thread and ask your questions there? Somebody else's thread really isn't the right place for that.

I would urge you also to read all the free articles on this site (those written by Dr Harley) on the topic of infidelity. Begin here:
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