I am new here. Like most my story is long so instead I will get to the current challenge. My husband and I have been attending coaching sessions. We had a no contact plan. The extra marital partner attempted contact several times and the plan was followed. Recently the EMP extra marital partner flew from CA to GA and sat outside his work. He did great. Walked past her and called me. That day she emailed, he forwarded to me and blocked her. Same with calls. It was upsetting but the fact that he stuck to his plan made me feel we were getting somewhere. I had hope of rebuilding trust. I respected him.

Found out last week that he called her a week after her visit to tell her to just leave us alone. Instead he feel back into trap. Ended up telling her he loved her. Contact two more times via IM on a online game and he said he woke up and told her no this is not what he wants and to leave him alone. She offered to secretly be mistress. Asked him to get her pregnant in 7 years and said she loved him and would not leave him alone.

A day later he tells me all this. We were advised to do a letter threatening legal action if she continues to make contact. She works for airline so has the means to get here. Looked up laws and it does not appear we have legal recourse.

What do we do?

I have a video of her that she sent that she would not want to get out especially to her employer and to be honest I have considered threatening her with this but it feels very wrong. Husband doesn't want to go that route. I avoid harming anyone as I believe it is wrong for me and not who I want to be.

I am worried she will show up anyday.

Help is greatly appreciated. Ideas?

Thank you.

Why do you have compassion for the devil? Is she showing you the same?

Welcome to MB, Noharm, and I am sorry to hear of these events in your marriage.

I've dealt with a persistent OW and my H's affair through which I suffered something like 6 D days over 4 years - and another one last year, five years after the previous one. As with your story, OW in my marriage was usually the one contacting him after he said that the affair was over and he wanted to repair his marriage. She was desperate and reckless in her "love" for my H. She got a job in another country so that she could rent an apartment Monday-Friday and be completely available to my H. She left her 17 year-old son to finish his schooling without her in the home. She turned up my H's hotel several times, in tears, begging him to see her - and he always let her stay the night. (He had a travelling job.) So I do sympathise and know what you are dealing with, Noharm - I do.

But you know what? The person you need to take legal action against is not OW, but your H. The legal action needs to be a post-nuptual agreement that you require him to cooperative with now, if you decide to give your marriage one more shot, and the legal action you need to take if he EVER speaks to her again, no matter what the circumstance, is divorce.

You see, this contact could not be happening if your H were not facilitating it and actually relishing it. This OW is being given crumbs enough for her to know that your H hates the fact that he can no longer see her and regrets that you - his wife - are forcing him to do this.

You told us so in your post. You told us that he rang her and ended up saying that he loves her. It does not matter that he supposedly did this to tell her to leave you alone; he should not have rung her at all, in accordance with your agreement. He knew what would happen and indeed he wanted that to happen. He misses her and misses the "love", flattery and worship that she gives him. Knowing that someone "loves" him enough to die for him, cannot live without him, cannot stop thinking about him, isn't whole without him, would give up everything in a heartbeat to be with him...

(excuse me a moment while I hurl )

...knowing all that is a powerful aphrodisiac to your H and he wants it back and he is addicted to it.

You, my dear, need to know what you are dealing with and know that he will see her again and again if she keeps making contact. She's not your problem; he is.

I suggest you see a lawyer about a divorce settlement and at the same time find out about the legalities of post-nups in your state. You do not need to file for divorce if you are given evidence that your H wants to stay with you and will give up this woman, but you should seriously consider it and tell your H that you are doing so.

You need to get your lawyer to draw up a post-nup that gives you the house and the majority of the financial assets and none of the debts, and spousal and child support, should he ever have contact with this woman again. If he willingly signs that, then you might have some confidence that he intends to keep his word and not deal with OW again. If he doesn't, then in your shoes I'd divorce him.

Noharm, are you coaching with the Harley coaching centre? Have you informed your coach about these incidents?

My actions are not based on compassion they are based on how I wish to conduct myself. Who I wish to be for me. I do not wish to allow anyone the ability to change who I strive to be.

Yes and yes. His advice has been to do the letter with legal actions, but Georgia law does not seem to support our ability to do that.

You are not a lawyer.
You and your WH have to get a lawyer to go to court and file a RO. At the same time have your lawyer send her employer/airline co stating that she is using her employee priviledge/benefits to fly in to harass you and your WH. Would they block out her flight area to a 1,000 radius from your town.

Airlines don't want bad publicity or problems and may take action in your behalf.

But hopefully you will change into a person who will defend herself when she is under assault? Because if you don't, you will lose your marriage.

I agree with Sugarcane, the problem is not the OW but your husband. Your husband is not serious about cutting off contact. If he were, he would called the police on the OW when she showed up at his office and that way, he would have never seen her. He didn't do that. He is not serious about no contact and Harley recommends separation in that situation.

The best thing you can do for everyone is to expose the affair wide and far. Send facebook messages to the OW's family and friends. Inform her employer that she is pursuing your husband. Is she married? If so, call her husband and give him all of your intel.

Has the affair been exposed to you and your husbands family and friends? If not, everyone should know. That will do more to motivate him to end his affair than anything.

There is nothing "compassionate" about helping an infidel hide her dirty deeds. That is enabling. It is in your best interest AND the OW's best interest to expose her everywhere. Otherwise, she has no motivation to be a better person.

Please go read the link in my signature about best ways to expose. Exposure is your best weapon against this affair. The more people who know, the more people to hold them accountable.

Only you can determine your priority, whether it is your conduct or your marriage, but there is a difference between selfishness and taking care of oneself. Actions have consequences. Your lawyer can sent a cease and desist letter, or whatever it is called. That is a possibility in every state.

If a man stops drinking and falls off the wagon and gets drunk at the bar do you sue the bartender?

You can trespass her from your house and his workplace.
This can be done by yourself and the employer

I align with Sugar Cane in her assigning most of your attention to WH. Yeah, yeah, Skanky is skanky, but she made no vows to you to honor and protect you, she made no agreement about NC, and your efforts to ban her from your world will be exhausting at best, and ineffective at worst.

You did not say that you had been on MB before, but you seem to know part of what is necessary, (NC agreement) but you only got a C+ in that course of study.

You evidently failed entirely in closing the NC agreement with the absolutely vital "or else" clause. (You're not the first, and tragically, will not be the last.) So WH gets juiced by contact with Skanky, sees no predictable, absolute, and fully defined consequences of renewing contact, and proceeds.

Hopefully you and he will repair this breach, and NOW you will see the need for consequences. That will be but half the battle, of course. You will have to fully commit (to yourself) to exercising those sanctions automatically and without remorse on future violations, and impress WH with that same awareness. If a post-nup is the only way that can be achieved, well, you have your direction.

She has coached with the Harley's NG. She says that her coach is aware of this breach - but she is not very forthcoming about anything when asked!

I would just add to your advice that if a post-nup is not valid where she lives, or if there are precious few marital assets to make it a real threat, then divorce is always the ultimtate sanction. As we know, Dr Harley does not approve of a BW putting up with an ongoing affair for long.

So far all the advice I have taken has been directly from our MB coach. He did not indicate that our first no contact agreement have consequences. I do know about the law a little as I have worked in the field for over 22years. My sister and law is a lawyer and getting a Restraining Order is not easy. You must prove that you are in fear for your safety or that of the safety of someone connected to you.

I have read all of the books but I would not say I am an expert on any of this as sometimes my emotions keep me from thinking and acting logical.

I came to this board for ideas and support. I feel that some of the messages were cruel and I would appreciate it if you would like to help me by doing it in a helpful manner.

What other ways have people gotten the OW to stop contacting the WH? I see what you are saying about contacting her employer and that seems like a good option. Are you saying to do so now, or let her know in a letter that if she she makes any further contact that is what we will do?

This is really hard and I am in a really bad place. The children are not his but he has indicated he does not want to lose them. He has been a wonderful step dad and up until this point, I felt that him being in their lives is a huge benefit. If we split it will be up to me as to the relationship with the kids. I don't think I can handle that and would just want to move on. He knows this.

I do not want to nor do I plan to stay in a marriage where this keeps occurring. If I knew that it was going to be that way, I would go running. He has made efforts to fix things and appears to be trying really hard. He knows he messed up, he apologizes for it and is willing to do whatever our coach tells us to make things right.

I suggested a no Trespass letter. You can write it, sign it and have the Sheriff in her home county serve her with it.

She is beyond warnings. Contact her employer now, and any other person that could influence her to leave your H alone.

Also, it appears that there are some major holes in your H's boundaries. For instance, how was she able to email him?

He should do whatever it takes to end contact. If that means changing jobs, so she can't sit outside and wait for him, do it. If that means moving to another location, do it.

At the least he should be CHANGING his email (not just blocking her), and changing his phone# since she now has that resource. He should also not have access to playing online games, on the computer or on his phone, since he has used that as a method to contact her.

In other words, if you didn't already have these written into your EP's, you should add them:

CHANGE email
CHANGE phone#s
CHANGE job, if need be
MOVE, if need be
NO ONLINE GAME access, by computer or phone
write a new NC letter, since the last one is now null and void

This is not about convincing OW to leave your WH alone, it is about making it impossible for her to contact him.

Also, I don't think anyone has been cruel to you! Everyone just wants you to understand that a breach in NC is the worst EP breach possible, it basically sets your recovery back to Day 1. And if it happens again, there needs to be a very serious consequence.

NoHarm...as you said there is a long back story and you just brought up the immediate concern...the OW stalking your H.

The MB coach has been following your situation and knows both you are your H better than we. I would get the coaches advice on this ASAP. Once you have that advice we on the board can encourage you to follow the advice even on your worst days.

I speak from experience it is better to pay for the coaching up front and vigilantly at the beginning, if at all possible, otherwise you might just stumble around for days, weeks, months, years. Either way you pay. Pay now or later. The price now can save you from years of suffering.

The path to surviving and recovering from an affair is narrow and long...having a guide who knows the way is invaluable....having a cheering section as you follow the lead of your guide is equally indispensable.

I'm not saying some couples can't get the books, read them, do them, and have great success...but if you are lost...get expert help. It is cheaper than divorce financially and emotionally to the whole family.

seconded.

NoHarm -
*****************EDIT********************

One thing that we have been doing is going through our No Contact Plan that the counseling center had him make almost daily (and the weakness protection plan every week) and then a couple times a week I walk him through scenarios. It sounds like you were doing the same since he was able to walk by her when she was stalking him. I believe fully that I would be (am) in the same position as seeing POSOW would send that section of my WH's brain into overdrive and he'd want to reach out and tell POSOW to go away but she would draw him in. That is in essence what has played out here. Twice. It's the addiction thing. Just one little drink won't hurt. Or if I buy a bottle and plan on breaking it to show I'm over it, I can "handle" that. They can't. And maybe your WH is in the same place mine is - dealing with the true reality of his addiction. I know that he didn't understand it until it happened this last time.

Where I know I had issues was that I couldn't find a way to make him remorseful, so I don't think he saw truly why he had to hold to the no contact boundaries since he felt it was doing it for me. It wasn't until the last week or so that the lights came on and he (and I) realized quite strongly that he has to do it for him and our marriage, not because his wife needs him to. Kinda like losing weight. You can only get so far doing it to look good for your spouse or a certain event. If you start doing it for your own health and want to do it for yourself, then it will work.

I'm SO sorry to see someone else suffering as I have been. I hope the coaching center can help you get through this latest setback. I'm certain they can. The problem with your husband is it is he who needs to protect his weaknesses. The problem is the addiction itself and his need to fully understand that and take full responsibility for protecting your marriage. This last scenario that played out might be just what you needed for him to see that. I know I'm banking on that here. And I know it sucks to go through this turmoil in order for them to understand fully the true issues with the addiction.

PAP, that is interesting indeed, because you were being given Marriage Builders advice that all came from the horse's mouth, Dr Bill Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders. That is the entire purpose of this forum: to help others learn and implement Marriage Builders concepts. It is not to validate those who want to BREAK those concepts.

It is AGAINST the TOS to give contradictory advice to newcomers here. Did you know that?

So if that really happened you should notify the mods so they can ban the person who gave this bad advice.

But you and I both you can't do that, because you were never given contradictory advice. You were given by the book Marriage Builders advice, that your marriage would never recover if your husband continued to travel. You are just angry because you didn't want to hear the truth.

Like Dr Harley says in the mission statement:
It would make sense if your alternative opinions worked for you, but they don't. Your marriage is a wreck because you ignored very basic principles. And you won't get away with trying to influence others to do the same. Do you want others to be in your same mess? Do you want this poster to endure and endless affair replete with false recoveries? I would hope not.

A reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is to discuss Marriage Builders concepts. If you feel a poster has posted information that is contradictory, we encourage you to notify the moderators so we can address it. But please don't disrupt threads by correcting other posters. Let us handle the issue directly.

Thank you

Well, since I was one of the people who advised both of you, I take exception to that. How dare you call what I wrote "advice" - in inverted commas?

I wrote to both you, pAp, and this poster from the bottom of my heart, because I have been through the situation of having a WH who was "stalked" by his OW FOR YEARS, and I suffered many debilitating D Days because of the situation. It was only after a couple of years of suffering emotional health problems that I began to understand that the only way the "stalking" could continue was because my H was complying with it. He was telling OW "I can't see you any more (not "I don't want to see you any more"). My marriage is at risk and I don't want to end it. No, I wasn't lying to you when I said I loved you. Yes, I do care about you. I am sorry that I hurt you and I think about you every day. I wouldn't have hurt you for the world! But my kids..."

And I learned about what that kind of "NC" message means to a heartbroken affair partner - especially a woman; women seems to get far more carried away with the romance of the affair; the romance of being "kept apart" and being matched to the wrong spouses - and I realised that my H was responsible for all that was happening.

My H had a traveling job, and the only way to bring physical contact to an end was for him to stop travelling. He chose to do this in the end, worn out as he was (or seemed to be) with our marriage teetering on the brink of collapse, and his OW turning up in tears at his hotel room (the same hotel room that he chose to stay in every time...despite his protestations that he was doing all he could not to see her), and our kids living under a permanent threat of divorce.

When I read your post, I could not understand how Steve Harley could not have discussed this with you, but when I read more from you I backed off and left you to his expert help. I didn't insult you and for the life of me I cannot understand why you have insulted me.

I tried to pass on to both of you what I learned the hard way, and I accept that you do not wish to hear it, so I have stopped posting to you. But for you to come back here, to this thread, merely to tear a strip of those like me who tried to help you both, and to characterise what I wrote as "advice", is unkind, and I'm appalled.

The H in this story has met OW again, and somehow we are giving him bad "advice"? Again, how dare you.

I would not have posted again to either of you, as it was clear already that you did not welcome my advice, but I will not let you talk about my efforts that way.

Noharm, when posters tell you to ignore Marriage Builders advice, ask them what the state of their own marriage is. And when people tell you to follow it, ask them the same. You will find that those who encourage ignoring the advice have a wreck of a marriage themselves. That is the case on this thread, I assure you.

Like Dr Bill Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders, says: