My story pretty much goes like this:
STBXH was deployed to Iraq, has developed a drinking problem, cheated on me more than once, and refuses to get help. I filed for divorce in August and now I'm trying to work up the courage to finalize it. (If you want to see the full story, it's in the Surviving an Affair forum under "How do I know when to end it???")
My experience started out with shock and depression. Then I became angry and used my anger to be able to file for divorce. I went through lots of ups and downs. Last night was a down night. STBXH and I were talking about our situation and the main thing that stuck with me from our conversation is when he said "I like to go to bars. I like drinking. It's the only thing that makes me happy anymore. It puts me in a better mood and helps me forget about my problems for a little while. I do stupid things when I drink. I am not going to change."
When he said this, I realized how powerless I am. I tried all the manipulation, ultimatums, and guilt to get him to stop drinking and cheating. I tried getting his command involved. Nothing worked. This is step one in Al-Anon. To admit that I am powerless over alcohol. I know that there is absolutely nothing I can do or say that can change STBXH's behavior. Absolutely nothing.

Let me just say this: there are better men out there.

You are 23, you have a very long life ahead of you. You do not deserve to be tied to an alcoholic. That's a very difficult challenge for anyone to get over and it doesn't sound like your STBX has any interest in doing so.

You have very young children that deserve a solid father-figure in their home. Your STBX is anything BUT a solid father-figure.

Make the best decision you will ever make: finalize the divorce, find your way back to family, build a good home for you and your kids and then, when the time is right, God will put a good man in your path. And when He does, take that man and use what you've learned here to build the very best marriage you can.

And never look back...

Alcoholism is a disease and your spouse is not ready to get help. He seems to be in the throes of it...You have to do what's best for you and your children.

I am so sorry this is happening to you and your family.

armywife,

Sorry to hear of your divorce. When addiction is involved there is no amount of love or determination on the other spouses part that can change the addict. They have to want to change and your ex doesn't want to. Him blaming alcohol for his cheating is a cop out.

You are doing the best thing possible for you and your kids. And I understand all to well, that when the anger disipates that you are left with depression and sadness.

You have no power over his life, but you do over your OWN. Keep moving forward, you are young and will one day find new love with someone that deserves you.

AW,

I think you are making good decisions.

My first H was an alcoholic (also military). He died young and our daughter, while she loved him, never respected him. It was really sad.

I think you will be fabulous in your future. Don't look back. Enjoy your trip this summer.

AM

Thank you all. You are right... I need to just finalize things and not look back. I dont know why I have these mixed feelings about it. I feel nervous and scared. I dont know why. I'm not benefitting by satying married. I know I cant stay in this relationship and I would like to start dating someday. I guess I just need a little push or something. IDK. I think I will go to the courthouse on Monday to set the final court date.

AW,

Have you read this?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5048a_qa.html

Wow, thanks for that! I had not read it, but I'm glad I did.
Some things that really hit me were:

1. Alcoholics commonly engage in their most painful habits while under the influence. Acts of infidelity are common. The fact that he or she is drunk at the time is no consolation to a grief-stricken spouse.

STBXH is always saying "Everytime I cheated I was drunk. People do stupid things when they're drunk"
Umm... yeah, people do stupid things when they're drunk, but is that REALLY supposed to make me feel better!?!?!???

2. That's what I learned to do after discovering that an alcoholic is so much in love with alcohol, that while in the state of addiction, there is no way for them to consider their spouse's feelings whenever they make decisions, a necessary condition for a great marriage. Alcohol always comes first, even when it is at the spouse's expense.

This is what STBXH was telling me when he said how much he likes to drink and that he wont change.

3. You must learn to regard your husband as hopelessly lost to his alcohol, and that any effort you make to try to please him will not be reciprocated. His lover will always be alcohol and that's that. You have never had a chance for a normal marriage with him and never will have a chance as long as he's addicted.

SO TRUE! This is what step one of Al-Anon is about. Admitting that I have no control over STBXH and his alcohol problem.

4. But your husband's decision to become sober (not a single drink of alcohol for the rest of his life) is a long-shot. A better prediction is that you will learn to have a very happy and fulfilling life without depending on your husband for your happiness or fulfillment.

And that's exactly what I'm doing. Having a happy and fulfilling life without depending on STBXH.

Sorry for your pain. I hope you get your feet under you soon, and walk straight to your future.

thanks barbiecat.
well, so much for going to the court house...
my car got stolen.

what?

omg

Well, that just sucks...sorry to hear that!

yeah... it really really really sucks!
hopefully i'll be buying another car tomorrow though.
so my STBXH's cousin is going through it now. Her husband decided he wanted a divorce shortly after re-connecting and visiting (out of state) with his ex-girlfriend, who also has children with him. my cousin-in-law has been completely devastated. i recommended this site and told her about plan A/B. she checked it out, but IDK if she has posted.
as for me, i'm really excited about tomorrow. i'm throwing a st. patrick's day party for all my friends and we're all getting dressed up.

The St. Patty's Day party was a lot of fun!
I bought a car on Friday!
I'm having one of those days where my mind is on STBXH and wishing things had not happened the way they did. I know I have to look foreward and not back. I am on step two of al-anon and it's about God returning me to sanity. I never realized I was insane for trying to get my husband back on track. I took him back so many times, each time believing him when he said he would change. I was in denial.
But not anymore! My friend Vi's divorce will be final in April, so we are going to plan a double divorce party. Might as well celebrate the end of chaos instead of be depressed over it, right?
I'm hoping to take a mini trip now that DD is on spring break. Gotta keep moving foreward!

I'm so mad at STBXH. He has not tried to contact our children in over two weeks. He was out in the feild for a bit, but he's back. DD has asked for him. I tried to let her call him today, and he picked up and hung up. I texted him "thats real nice of you to hang up on your daughter" He texted back "I didnt. My phone has no service. I'll call later" I texted "Ur lying, we heard someone answer and hang up." Then I said a bunch of mean things. I couldnt help myself when I saw the dissapointment on DD's face. He didnt call back. I knew he wouldnt. He never does what he says he's going to do anymore.

And yelling at him accomplishes, what?

And doing so in front of your child does, what?

Is it your plan to drive him away from his daughter and fill her full of hate?

See how it can look to someone on the outside looking in? Hey, I'm divorced. My focus is on what is best for my son. I am no angel and I too have not always acted as I should. I am trying to do better.

Larry

Oh I would never yell at him in front of her! I was texting. It's definitely not my plan to drive him away from his kids. I WANT him to talk to them. I'm mad because he wont! Even when he does call, he only talks to them for like 30 seconds each, and then asks to talk to me. I feel like if someone is hurting my child, which is what he's doing, I cant just be nice about it.

He, like a lot of males, loves his children through you. This is, in my opinion, like a lot of military men because of who they are and what they do for a living, the constraints of time and separation.

He needs divorce counseling to help him to attach with his offspring directly. The military has such counseling available at a confidential level that will not impact on his career. He is unlikely to understand this issue within himself and since I don't know him, haven't a clue how to get him to see it.

Perhaps IC counseling for daughter where the counselor will demand to see him and then HE can break the news to XH.

Larry

Larry, I think you owe her an apology for that roasting. She said in the original post that she texted her H, and you did not notice that. You have accused her of a very bad thing that she did not do.

Also, do you know that this man is an alcoholic? Is your advice about his parenting needs given through that filter?

I think many people would advise armywifie to leave H completely alone until and unless he deals with his addiction. It is not her job to help this alcoholic to do his job as a father.

Larry,

can you explain this please?

Thanks

Larry, I agree STBXH needs counseling, but I know he wont get it. He knows how to get help, but he is not willing to do so. He has already made it clear that he does not want to change and that he loves drinking. He told me so himself that drinking is the only thing that makes him happy. The idea of getting DD into counseling and then having the counselor be the one to tell him he needs to step up as a father is a good one. Maybe I'll try that in the future. However, right now, DD is only 3, and has no idea that we are divorcing. My explaination for him being gone has always been "Daddy's in the Army and he has to live far away." My pastor advised me not to let the kids know anything's wrong right now. I think they're way too young. I dont even know if having a counselor tell STBXH anything would even do any good though since he is so far into his alchohol problem now.

Sugarcane, thanks. And you are right. I should just leave him completely alone until he deals with his issues. I know that me being mean to him will not make him change. Nor will me being nice. I've got to "let go and let God". I guess I just got a bit heated in the moment.

ChrisInNOVA, I kind of get what Larry is saying about military men loving their child through their mom, since they are so far away much of the time, but I had no idea a lot of males also do this! I would like to hear this explaination as well!

You're right SC. I failed to do what I normally do, which is to read back and find out more than the details of one post. I stand corrected.

And armywife, please accept my apology. Really, I normally do better than that.

I don't know how you would cut off all contacts in a divorce situation. Unless you can get a court to say otherwise because of abuse, he has a standing right to see his daughter and that is that. Yes, expensive legal proceedings can take into account his drinking and bar him from contact with daughter, but until that happens, it is what it is.

That said, if he shows up drunk, you can stop him from taking daughter with him. CPS can be called and they have the authority to ignore any court order from divorce under all sorts of laws governing child endangerment. But I suspect you know that. Without the intervention of CPS or the courts, you're stuck. But I suspect you know that too.

I may have missed it, but is your daughter in IC? I have a reason for asking.

Larry

Thank you Larry, I accept your apology.
No she is not in counseling and has no idea we are divorcing.

AW

Well, your daughter is old enough to know something isn't right in her world. Yes, even at three. While you can still get the Army to pay for it, please consider a session or two at the most with a Registered Play Therapist, preferably one who is at the Supervisor level. They can help you map out a plan for dealing with the issues your two children, especially the daughter and maybe the son, are going to face in as they grow up.

Take notes, or with permission record the session(s). As your kids grow up, you will bless the day. Trust me (you have no reason to), you will never regret getting the guidance an RPT-S can provide in child rearing for someone who is divorced, step-parent issues and "Visiting Dads" who have problems.

The most chilling part of your narrative:


In addition to all the rest, that flat statement had to break your heart. Now you have two very small children, no husband and you have to wonder why me Lord. And his command won't touch the situation. Some will and some won't. At least you know that a certain amount of money will be removed from his paycheck each month and sent to you. So long as he is in the Army, he has no choice. I dunno how it works in the military, but you could also receive some benefits from divorce in the particular State you live in such as alimony.

He is going to have less money to drink with, so it sounds.

Larry

Larry,

I think it would really be helpful if you took a look at all AW's posts. Her H has put her through a tremendous amount of grief. She and kids are in CA and is in TX.

AW,
After my D from first H, I NEVER said one bad word to my DD36, . When he died, three years ago at age 56, DD36 said, "I know he was a S@#$, but he was my dad and I loved him". She also launched at her paternal grandmother when grandmother made a comment about what a good dad and step-dad (he remarried a woman with a D) first H was. The kids know and learn and make their own assessments as they grow up.

AM

AM

I did read most of her posts. I am deeply sympathetic with her situation and what she has on her plate. Looking forward, she is going to be presented with more challenges in her life as a result of being married and producing children with that guy. I missed that she lives in CA. That is a good thing.

An RPT who also counsels with parent(s) can give her the tools she is going to need in the future to help her manage her situation with the kids.

I made a huge mistake with my post to her. And she is very young and very vulnerable right now. I am ashamed of myself and I assure you, if you will read my own posts, it was out of character except when deserved, and it clearly wasn't. I ... made ... a ... mistake. I would like to make amends, if possible and if I am permitted.

Thanks AM.

Larry

Larry,

I agree AW has alot on her plate. I have also seen her approach everything with intelligence and thoughtfulness. Her H is losing many good, good things in his life. His stupid choices.

AM

Thanks Larry, the play counseling sounds like a good idea and I will look into it. I accept your apology.

AM, that is a sad story about your daughter and her father. I havnt had any contact with my father since I was 8. I guess that's why it is such a sensitive thing for me to see my own kids missing out on a relationship with their dad. It's a painful thing. I know they are very young and dont quite understand, but DD has already asked why her friends have daddies and she doesnt. When she makes comments like that I just want to kill him! I wish he would wake up and see what he's doing to these kids. I have no desire to have a relationship with him anymore, but my kids deserve to have a relationship with him. It's so unfair!
He has become so different from the person I married in 2005. Since he found out he would be deployed the first time, he has become an alcoholic, drunkenly crashed our car AND his motorcycle, destroyed his marriage, abandoned his kids... I cant understand why the Army is allowing this to happen with no consequenses and wont get him some help. Instead, they're sending him BACK to Iraq this summer! He seems to be getting worse and worse as the next deployment approaches.

AW,


My daughter has suffered and has caused suffering as an adult. At 36, she has never been married, engaged once and "rented" relationships with 4 guys. The most current one is her divorced previous boss (she was the ow. I found out when my H was in his A, but before D-day. That was wierd in retrospect).

The Army talks family and caring for Soldiers, but really the bottom line is whether a unit (or the country) can fight the war. It really saddens me to say that after having been on active duty for nearly 28 years. But..... it nearly cost our marriage and our family is the most important thing in my life.

Wow AM! That must be hard! Knowing your daughter was the OW while you were going through your own rough times...

Ugh... I need to vent for a sec...
I'm soooo mad... I have been doing so good emotionally until right now. I went to church for communion tonight, and STBXH called twice while I was there, but I ignored the calls. It's been almost a month since he's called. As soon as I got out of church I called him back and he asked to talk to the kids. I told him I just got out of church and I'd put them on the phone as soon as I got to the babysitter's house. I asked him why he hasnt called the kids and he made all kinds of excuses about how busy he has been. I told him "You havnt been too busy to be on Facebook" He got all mad and started talking crap and calling me names. He complained about how much money child support is taking out. He told me I need to find a way for the kids to come visit him. I said "I wnated to bring them down for Christmas and you said no". He told me it's cause he doesn't want to see me. I told him he has to see me for the rest of his life because we have kids together so he might as well get over it and act like an adult. He yelled at me some more and hung up.
I got home and called him back and put the kids on. They each talked for like 30 seconds. Then I told him "Happy Birthday. You need to call the kids more often" and he hung up. Today's his birthday.

There's this song, Jaron and the Long Road to Love- I Pray for you... That's how I feel about him sometimes. It's a funny song.

-End Rant... I feel a lil better.

It would be very, very hard for me to deal with your STBXH.

grrrrrrr.

yes... he is very irritating.

AW

I think that Whoopie Goldberg got it right when she observed (paraphrasing)that the generation before us raised a bunch of selfish brats.

Sad.

Larry

Yep, I agree! And I love Whoopi.

I agree. Your husband is addicted to alcohol and the only who can help him with that is himself. He is definitely choosing alcohol over you and his child. I have a family member who is an alcoholic, so I know what your going through. The best thing you can do is move on and focus on you and your child. Maybe, once he realized what he lost due to alchol, he might find in it himself to get help.

del88... yeah the whole alcohol thing is very hard and very sad. I'm doing my best to move on and working the steps of al-anon. So far I've done the first three. 1. I am powerless over STBXH and alcohol. 2. God can bring back my sanity (and STBXH's). 3. Let go and let God.

Gosh I hope Elin and Sandra file for divorce!

Taking my kids to Six Flags today for some fun!

I finally went to the court house and got the papers that I need to finalize my divorce. I am trying to avoid a trial so I am going to write up the agreement the way I want it and mail it to STBXH and hope that he signs it. What I want is for him to keep all that he has in Texas, and for me to keep all that I have in California. I dont want us to fight over anything. I am also putting down that he will have to pay debts that are in his name, and I will have to pay debts that are in mine. We dont have any debts in both of our names. I am going to write a short note to him saying that I dont want to fight over anything and I just want to get the divorce done and over with so please just sign the papers so we can move foreward.
Hopefully we can do it this way. I'm tired of dealing with court and papers. I think it's pretty fair.

Yesterday I sent off the papers to STBXH... now I have to hope he fills them out, signs them, and sends them back to me...
Today is our 5 year wedding anniversary... I'm doing better than I thought I would be. My friends have been sending me supportive texts saying how great of a friend and mom I am,and tonight we're getting together to make dinner...

Have you run this by an atty? You may want a "no fighter" for peace, but MAKE SURE a 3rd party checks it over for fairness.

(Prolly going to get may @ss kicked for this one,) but make sure your "taker and giver" will both be happy with the offer in the long run.

You sound good.

Thanks Barbiecat... I am meeting with the people at Legal Access at the courthouse. They are the ones who have been helping me fill out and file all my paperwork so far and they give free legal advice. And yes, if STBXH agrees to what I want I will be happy. I just dont want to drag it out any longer. I want it over and I wont be losing anything except my marriage and my medical coverage.

I was watching TV a little while ago and saw a report on two soldiers who suffered from PTSD after their tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. One man was 39 and the other was 40. They were both married. Their wives were talking about how their husbands couldnt adjust to life at home and became depressed. They talked about their husbands drinking and engaging in wreckless behavior, including infidelity. One wife said she almost filed for divorce. Both wives tried desperately to get their husbands to agree to get professional help. Their husbands were afraid that if they asked for help they would not be promoted. They were also in denial. The wives were talking about how they wished there was an easy way to be able to let the Army know their husbands needed help. I had the same problems that they did when they tried to get command involved and nothing was done to solve the problem. One of the soldiers finally got help and is now recovering. The other one shot himself and died leaving behind his wife and three small children. They said last year was the highest suicide count so far for the military. This all brought me to tears. It is so sad and so scary. It made me feel kind of guilty because they said the soldiers in these situations need their family to stand by them, and I'm divorcing mine. It made me wonder if I'm doing the right thing, and what if something bad happend to STBXH, like suicide? Would I blame myself? Would I feel guilty for the rest of my life? I know it wouldnt be my fault. I know that I am powerless over STBXH and his problems. I still cant help feeling bad though. This is not how I wanted our marriage to end up...

I wish I had some words to reassure you. I can understand your concerns, since my stbxh has had depression for years, and a few years ago was near-suicidal before I finally was able to drag him against his will to a psychiatrist. He has never taken responsibility for his own health and happiness, and I worry that he will stop treatment, and become suicidal. I don't really think he would kill himself, but he'd probably make some gesture out of self pity and to punish me for leaving him. I know I'd be asking myself the same questions you are, and I worry that our kids would feel that I "drove him to it" with the divorce. Nevermind the fact that the divorce was actually over his emotional and sexual abuse, and infidelity.

Is your X receiving any kind of counseling or treatment for depression? I hope so.

Don't blame yourself for choices he makes. He is a grown man, and he can either seek help, or become self destructive. You can't control his thoughts or actions. When the marriage became unbearable, you left as an act of self preservation. Don't ever let yourself be made to feel guilty for that.

Thanks... you are right...
One of the Army wives on the show I saw lost her husband even though she tried to stick by him. It wasnt her fault he killed himself. It shows that no matter what I do or say, he is going to do what he wants.
No, he's not getting help. He is very stubborn.

My ex refused to consider counseling and while he had exhibited small amounts of the traits that led to our divorce, they became exaggerated after he returned from Iraq. One of the reasons it took me so long to leave him is because I felt like you wouldn't leave someone who came back paralyzed from the war, so why someone who was mentally paralyzed. I kept hoping and praying he would get better, but watched instead as he got more and more depressed, quit his job, and rather than find work when I could no longer support our bills and his extra living expenses, got caught up with folks doing illegal activities.

It's been 10 months since I left him, and he now says he had literally lost his mind, and would have never "woke up" had I not left.

I wish you all the best.

Daisy

Thanks Daisy...
STBXH still has not signed and sent me the divorce papers. I messaged him on FB the other day and said "aer u ever going to send me the papers? I thought u wanted to get this over with.." He wrote back "yeah yeah I got u. Been really busy. I need u to call me so I can talk to the kids cuz I dont have ur number anymore and I know my dad gave u mine" His dad didnt give me his number...

There was a thread somewhere about "you can't fix a broken spouse." Only he can get his act together. In the meantime, you are doing what you think best to take care of yourself and your kiddos.

Don't forget what Ellen said:

You need to think about your goal with respect to Dh and the kids. Yes, you are mad at him. Yes you think he needs to step up. But if he makes the effort to call and he gets sniped at by you, do you really think he is going to want to call again anytime soon? You have to train him that calling his kids is a good thing.
If he says he is busy, then you say "No matter, the kids are going to be thrilled you called".
Also, you can give him "talking points" for the kids... like you could tell him "Ask Bobby about his playdate" or "Jane got a new doll today, you could ask her about that". It keeps him more up to date on what they are doing as well as conversation topics that interest the kids. Also send him pictures of the kids so he can put them on Facebook. Or maybe get you and him webcams and set up a standing time for webchats with the kids.

great ideas!
guess I'm not gonna be as lucky as I thought... STBXH is now refusing to sign the papers and has been begging and crying again to get back together... He says he quit drinking and learned his lesson and loves me and blah blah blah.... heard it all before...

Hey AW!

I haven't posted to you in a while. You are doing great!!

Push the D through at this point. Don't give into the 11th hour antics of WH. If he really has changed and IF you are willing to consider him as a partner still after all of this then he can court and date you all over again and prove his changes rather then just saying them to you. I think it would be a big mistake to halt the D at this point. Make WH walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Hope you and the kiddos are doing great!!

If he isn't doing actions to back up his words, continue on your course unless/until he demonstrates otherwise, and even then, I'd be cautious believing what he says, what you need is to see change demonstrated, not hear about it.

ITA. Stick to your guns.

Me and the kids are great! I'm definitely not going to stop the divorce... I dont want to have to start all over again if anything were to go wrong. He's paying for us to go visit him in Texas in July. I told him i have no problem with him seeing the kids and that we have to agree to get along. He's wanting to talk about getting back together and talk to a chaplin together... dont know about all that, but I know my kids will be happy to see him and thats all that matters....

I know that I haven't posted to you in a long time. I haven't been to the sight while working on my own divorce recovery. I understand wanting to make things easier and wanting to stay married - even when it may not be in your best interest. When you visit him with the kids (if something doesn't change before then), have him sign the papers if at all possible. If things are going well, you don't have to file them. If he backslides again it is already done. He has a history of alcoholism, infidelity, and eratic explosive behavior by your accounts. He should be able to understand your hesitation. My guess is that he will blow up at you again before or during the visit.

Keep doing what is right for you and your children. You cannot count on your husband to do the right thing at this point.

hmmm.. that's a really good idea!
I dont expect him to do the right thing. I dont really care anymore... it's weird. I dont know how to stop loving him but I'd much rather be alone and happy than be with him and be unhappy. I've told him how I feel and he still begs for another chance to prove himself. He tells me he loves me and is sad that I dont say it back. I dont care though. I am happy with my life and I want it to stay this way.

You will go through periods where you do and don't care. That is normal. It takes a long time to stop feeling love for someone that you plan a life and a family with. Alone and happy is not a bad thing! He begs for another chance to prove himself but does nothing with the many chances that he gets everyday. He doesn't call the children often. He is not kind towards you. He tells you that he loves you but his actions are in conflict. Of course he is sad. He is alone. He has thrown his family away for cheap women and booze. He is either drunk or hungover. He is facing another deployment and he is probably scared and angry.

You don't have to figure everything out at once. Break your recovery into small manageable pieces. What is the most important thing that you want to accomplish? Work on that first. What can be easily accomplished? Work on that next. Take breaks from these challenges if needed. Along the way try to find joy in each day. My children are 19 and 21. They have been the greatest blessing and source of joy for me. I have been divorced twice. It was awful both times. Life does go on and it does get better.

If your husband really wants you back as he says, he will find a way. Otherwise it is just words. Words are cheap.

Wow. 'nuf said.

You are responsible for your own peace of mind and happiness, he is responsible for his. Just because he is sad about the situation he has created for himself does not put the onus on you to make him happy or better. Continue doing what is right for you and your children and let him find his own way.

SS2 you are sooooo right!