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Posted By: whitetail37 So the divorce is final in September - 03/22/10 04:00 PM
I am really confused atm. She wants me to still do family things and says the kids need to feel special still.

I feel the only way to get through the hurt and pain is to completly let her go and just be with my kids and when they are with her let them do there own thing.

Am I wrong for feeling this way?
Posted By: armywifie Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/22/10 04:46 PM
Well, IDK about doing family things if being around her is too hard for now. What kind of family things is she talking about? I guess to me it would depend on what the "family things" are.
But she is totally right that the kids need to feel special! If the kids want you to be there for family things, maybe you should just suck it up and do it to make them happy...
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/22/10 05:02 PM
We'll the upcoming thing was that last year we had planned to take the kids to a water park this summer for the weekend. She thinks we should still go as a family which makes it feel very odd to me as we would be staying in a motel together. I had also reserved a romantic get away for the two of us when I was still trying to work though everything. After she would not end it with OM I cancelled the trip. She thinks we should still go and just take the kids with us.

I totally agree in the fact that the kids should feel special which they are. I'm not referring to something like birthdays or anything or even going out to eat.
I also find it difficult when WW wants to do things as a family. IMO, because of the sitch, we are no longer a family. Making he kids feel special can be done when you're with them or when she's with them. Doing things as a family can lead the kids with false hope. I know. I see it in mine all the time when we did "family things". Really it was just a way for WW to keep the fantasy going (cake eating).

I've resolved myself to only do those things on very rare occassions like b-days and importatnt holidays but only if the kids ask for it and then I would make it clear that they should understand it doesn't mean much in regard to mom and dad getting back together. There's nothing more a child wants than to see that happen and to continue giving them falso hope is just emotionally destructive to them.
Posted By: hamster Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/22/10 08:53 PM
Speaking as a kid who grew up with divorced parents, you don't need to do things as "a family" to make the kids feel special. Kids will feel special so long as you devote your time and attention to them---whether that is separate or together. If you go on a trip that makes you uncomfortable, then your children will sense that uneasiness in you. It will make for a very non-special trip.

Take your kids on a special trip and then let your wife take them on another special trip. It need not be together.
Posted By: markos Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/22/10 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by hamster
Speaking as a kid who grew up with divorced parents, you don't need to do things as "a family" to make the kids feel special. Kids will feel special so long as you devote your time and attention to them---whether that is separate or together. If you go on a trip that makes you uncomfortable, then your children will sense that uneasiness in you. It will make for a very non-special trip.

Take your kids on a special trip and then let your wife take them on another special trip. It need not be together.

The idea of my parents, after their divorce, trying together to take us on a special trip makes me want to vomit. And this is twenty years out.

The memories from before that time are pretty special.

The memories from after that time with the parent who didn't desert the marriage, those are pretty special.

The idea that the faithful parent should've had to pretend to make the guilty parent look good so I'd have a "special" childhood memory? Puke.
Posted By: EllenG Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/22/10 10:19 PM
My stbxH keeps wanting to do "family" things with us. He gets terribly pouty if I decline to go somewhere with him, and his reaction is even more self pitying if I do something without him. I won tickets to see a concert, and I asked my sister to go with me, and he acted so hurt. I don't really know what goes on in his head. Apparently the fact that he lied and cheated, and is now trying to screw me over on the settlement, does not seem enough reason to give him the cold shoulder.

The only thing I'd be tempted to do with him as family is to take our son to Key West for his graduation gift. Son has been wanting that for a long time, and I am sure I can remain civil for the trip. However, if husband continues to cop feels of me like he is doing, he may have REASON to pity himself!
Posted By: CrushedJim Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/22/10 10:54 PM
whitetail-

She said that because of GUILT.

When I caught my WW, she kept saying things like we can be friends, we can do things together with the kids. My answer was NO WE CAN'T.
Posted By: armywifie Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/23/10 05:35 AM
Well, I also was a child of divorce. My dad cheated on my mom with her best friend. He has not contacted me since I was 8. Then, my mom remarried, and she cheated on my step father with his best friend. Weird, I know. I have to say now that years have passed and both my mom and stepfather have moved on, family things are awesome. My parents are able to hang out with my siblings and I without any problems. They both attend my sister's feild trips and graduation and band performances and soccer games. Holidays are great. We have family dinners, and watch movies together. The best part is that both my parents are able to enjoy my children together as well. My siblings and I think it's great to have both of them around.
You can still take the kids to the water park together, if you can stand it. Just get seperate rooms. Maybe it's too soon to go on trips like this together. Maybe it would be too painful for you. That's totally understandable. I'm sure someday you will move on and it wont hurt anymore. You will find happiness again. Then, it wont bother you so much to do family things. Like it or not, you're still a family even if you're not married. You have kids together for the rest of your lives. Someday your kids may have step-parents who will also be part of your family. Hopefully you will all be able to find peace for the children's sake. You can make the best of the situation, or the worst, you know?
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/24/10 01:07 PM
I know that we will always have the kids in common and that's what makes it hard sometimes. I have endured hell to keep our family together and she keeps my heart on a string. She even want's me to pay congical visits to her after the divorce, I mean WTH. I simply told her No. I can not be part of her life and not be in it. I just wish she would quit messing with my head.

My kids our my reason for living and always have, they know how much we love them and are in no way at fault for what is happening. It is just really hard picturing my life without my kids every day.
Posted By: armywifie Re: So the divorce is final in September - 03/24/10 09:17 PM
I totally feel the same way about how hard it is having kids in common. If STBXH and I didnt have them, we could just move on and would never have to see or speak to eachother again. Oh how easy that would be!
Dont let her keep your heart on a string. Cut it! Put up walls and protect your heart from her. You have to make the decision in your head that is is really over and that you wont be influenced by her anymore. It's almost like giving up an addiction. The only time you really have to see or speak to her is when it comes to the kids. Other than that, tell her to keep to herself. You both need to realize you will always be common allies for your kids, but you dont need to be best friends.
As far as your trips go, I wouldn't take her along on that "romantic getaway" you had planned. She doesnt deserve it, even if you take the kids along. But dont cancel the waterpark trip. The kids will be so disappointed.
Posted By: del88 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/06/10 01:44 PM
I agree that you don't have to do things as a family. It is important, though, to show the kids that you are both still cordial to each other. It would be great to do major holidays and bdays together, which sounds like you are.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/07/10 05:14 PM
What really is making it hard right now is that we have to cohabitate as neither of us have a place to go. After months of only effort by myself I told her I could not be content with her still talking to the OM and expect me to keep my heart and mind open. Now she tells me I am cold and indifferent towards her as if I act like we never knew each other. I am guessing this is just another attempt for her to cake eat but it still makes me feel like crap. How do you let someone go when you have to interact with them every day?
Posted By: dkd Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/07/10 08:42 PM
she's definitely cake eating, and using the kids as a way of guilting you into being that aspect of a husband for her.

You need to have separate residences, and only see each other for kids, not including vacations and such.

If this is her way of trying to win you back, she needs to come with another, more honest plan.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/08/10 02:40 AM
Shes not trying to win me back, I tried for months to get her work with me through this and she simply wont. She tells me it's over but she herself wont let me go.

The residence situation is a disaster, none of her family is here and there is no room at my mom's plus no way I'll leave so she can say i deserted them. We bought the house last May and two months later she started the EA followed a month later by the PA. Now where stuck with a house with a crap market. We've been trying to sell the house but no luck so far and neither of us can afford it on our own. I told her to leave however if she does she is taking my daughter with her 7 hours away. I'm getting hosed either way. The lame court system here is not much help either.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/26/10 07:00 PM
We are going today to sign the seperation agreement and it's really bothering me. I feel like even though she is the one who refuses to work through this to save our marriage and family I am the one who is giving up. I am so lost right now.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/26/10 07:05 PM
Whitetail, there is a concept in A.A. that may help:

Quote
Surrender doesn't mean giving up. It means 'stop fighting.'
Put another way, in the face of overwhelming odds, what good is there in committing suicide?

When one is powerless, surrendering is the first step in finding a newer, healthier form of power.
Whitetail, I havent read you whole story...but you are not giving up....It does feel that way but you are not...and lots of times they want the "fake" family so they dont look like the bad guy...and they get to keep their sumthin, sumthin on the side...They are selfish...You are not

She did this, not you...it is perfectly acceptable for you not to do family things together, it is not good for your sanity. I myself would love for me to be able to have family time with my WH and DS, but that does not help me get over my WH. And right now my son needs a mother in good mental health, not one tormented by his fathers need to have a mistress.

I am planning on doing a lifetime Plan B....I have tried to have some friendly contact with WH, but it brings me right back to square one in the pain department....He chose this, not me...If he is so concerned about family time together, then he can give up his OW. Just like your WW.

Please just remember SHE did this, NOT YOU. This cohabiting thing is not good for you either, but you are in a kindof no win sitch with that..I am sorry. My WH wouldnt leave either, but I told him I would leave with our son or he could leave. So he chose to leave, I was "lucky"{if you want to call it luck} in that resort.

Good Luck, you are doin the best you can do in your tough sitch, hang in there. Wish I could help you more.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/27/10 02:23 AM
We'll we are going about this as civilly as possible, joint legal and physical uncontested. She nor I am trying to take the other. Truth is I want nothing more than my marriage to work and despite her waywardness she never was the type to try to be vengeful or money hungry.

She just kept crying in the lawyers office. She is not trying to blame me or anything she knows she is the one who messed it up but it still kills me to see her cry.
Posted By: Greengables Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/27/10 10:25 AM
Whitetail, you're not quitting. You are recognizing a no-win situation which is what you found yourself in. Continuing the marriage would only have enabled her bad behavior.

It does stink to see a STBX in pain. Even when there is no love left, I never enjoy seeing others in pain. The way I look at it there are two kinds of pain in that situation. There's the pain I inflicted on someone, and then there's the pain that is the natural result of their actions. I believe it is wrong to take away the latter. Your STBXW needs to feel the pain in order to grow and learn how to be a better person. We don't grow a lot when we're comfy cozy.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/27/10 02:20 PM
I know, thank you all for your help during this time in my life. As much as it pains me I know I was enabling her and to continue letting her wont do either of us any good. My family always told me I babied her but I never seen it that way. I was taking care of my wife and showing her how much I loved her. They told me she was getting do to as she wished with no repercussion.

I just kept waiting for her to come back to reality and see what she had and get this fantasy life out of her head.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/27/10 03:28 PM
I am not from divorced parents, nor am I divorced (yet), but I do teach High School, and the kids like having seperate vacations/visits (maybe due to arguments/fear of fighting?)

Boy- the stories I hear!

Posted By: barbiecat Re: So the divorce is final in September - 04/27/10 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by whitetail37
We are going today to sign the seperation agreement and it's really bothering me. I feel like even though she is the one who refuses to work through this to save our marriage and family I am the one who is giving up. I am so lost right now.

Geeze. I am sorry.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 05/03/10 07:55 PM
The oddest things have happened since I filled, I have been able to be truely blunt with her. We have actually talked alot since then and the things that drove our marriage apart was simply because of the way she was around the house and the kids. She would not help with the homework or getting the kids ready for bed, she would not help with the household chores and she lived on the computer. I would address it and she would rebel because she wanted to do what she wanted and it made her unhappy with our marriage and wanting out.

I guess this has been the story of our marriage for the last 10 years to be honest. She has lashed out for years because she simply reverted in age. She wanted to go out dancing and partying and I was more interested in being a full time Dad and making sure the bills got paid.

The OM lives in New York and we live in Virginia as you can guess it started with a EA through an online game of all things. This same online game was how the first EA the PA started back in 2002 as well. I begged her not to start back years later yet here we are again.

The thing is she says she dont think she loves him like she did when it first started yet she feels there is to much damage in our marriage to fix and she don't honestly think she can be faithfull to me. Talking about honesty huh. I know I should be gratefull at this point for understanding the why and how's but that just stung to the core.

At this point in the game I don't think I could either knowing all that I know. Through snooping in the early stages I found alot out, in fact it's some of the things I found out that haunt my dreams. I have forgiven her but I don't know how to get those images out of my head.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 05/07/10 02:48 PM
I have done alot of reading on the MB principals but right now I am at a loss. The year waiting period for the divorce is up in September and I can file anytime after but right now I simply dont know how long to give her.

She is trying to get a job up state where her folks are and soon as she does she will be leaving, her and the OM's relationship she tells me is shakey and she dont feel the same way she did towards him and she mostly uses him because she don't want to be alone emotionally.

The OM is about 9.5 hours away and is wanting to come in some time in July and it is driving me nuts. From reading her emails I know she is not talking to him no where near as much as she was and she for the last few weeks have been the mother the kids have needed for a long time now. She tells me she dont expect me to keep my heart or mind open as I told her it was very hard to be optimistic about anything when she is moving and continueing a relationship with the OM.

I guess the question is do I continue Plan A and simply be the best husband I can be and file for final decree if things have not changed by then or do I weather the storm and give it longer?

Posted By: barbiecat Re: So the divorce is final in September - 05/07/10 02:58 PM
See the article on detachment

on the livestrong site I believe.

Broke my heart the first time I read it.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 05/07/10 03:42 PM
Sadly that is easier said than done, I simply don't know how to detach from someone who I have been with for 19 years.

I know I have no control over her actions and her actions are her own demons to face in life.

I guess when it is said and done I am scared that when I am able to detach finally, what if that is when she truely regrets the mistakes she has made in her life and I can not reattach?
You can't detach reasonably when you are still living with her. In fact, since you are continuing to live with her, you are continuing to enable her and actually, in my opinion, continuing to injure your relationship with her. She needs to be out and alone, just as you do, but for different reasons.

I believe you guys have to suck it up and get her out of the house. Pure and simple. Find her a 1 BR apt and get her out of your place. I understand money is tight... but so is your sanity. And on the outside chance that she gets shaken up being alone, she might actually recognize that your marriage is worth working for. In the LEAST, you will begin healing yourself and your sanity.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: So the divorce is final in September - 05/08/10 03:25 AM
No, detachment and PB are not the same. Detachment is realising the behaviors that are harmful to you and the other party and make appropriate choices.

I have been with my H for 27 years. I am learning slowly how not to ruch in and try to fix things.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: So the divorce is final in September - 05/08/10 03:26 AM
Detach from behaviors, not love.

You should read that link.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 05/10/10 03:04 AM
I read it, I guess I just took something else out of it.

Money is beyond tight, we barely live pay day to pay day as it is. She is applying for jobs up state where her parents are so hopefully she will be able to find something soon.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 07/07/10 05:58 PM
Well we are still living together, she still has not been able to find a job where her family is. We are doing better however she still is insistant on her moving 7 hours away to be with her family. I simply cannot understand why she is willing to break up our family for her to be with hers.

She says she does not know if she wants the divorce or not but she feels the need to leave and truely seperate for her to know if she wants us or not.

My question is since the mandatory year seperation is up in September since we have kids and I can file for the D any time after, should I wait? If she is still with me in the home should I still go through with it or wait till she leaves?

She has still not ended the EA with OM, it seems to be fizzeling out though however there is talks of him coming in soon.
Posted By: whitetail37 Re: So the divorce is final in September - 07/28/10 03:48 PM
Things are looking better however not great. She says she wants to start marriage counseling but says she still don't know if she wants our marriage or not.

She still has contact with OM and now others are constantly trying to hook up with her. From snooping she has not recepricated and has flat told them no, she was not going to do anything untill the divorce if she followed through with it.

Will MC do any good or would we just be wasting our money if she has not comitted to making the marriage work?
Posted By: Mulan Re: So the divorce is final in September - 09/11/10 05:53 PM
Quote
I am really confused atm. She wants me to still do family things and says the kids need to feel special still.

I feel the only way to get through the hurt and pain is to completly let her go and just be with my kids and when they are with her let them do there own thing.

Am I wrong for feeling this way?

whitetail, Your WW is trying to have in divorce what she couldn't have in marriage: The freedom to move back and forth betweeen boyfriends and family with no repercussions. She wants to just drop in on the family when she feels like enjoying the good parts of Family Time, and then drop out again until she feels like coming around again.

Sorry - this is a terrible example for your children. Families deserve FULL-TIME parents and FULL-TIME spouses. A part-time family is not good enough and the kids should never be shown that it is.

Surely your children deserve more than crumbs and leftovers and part-time parents pretending that a part-time family is enough. Don't they?

Family Time is a privilege that has to be earned - and it is earned by being there FULL-TIME as both a parent AND a spouse.

Since WW has decided she no longer wants to be a full-time spouse, she no longer has the privilege of Family Time and your childen should NEVER get the idea that she does. The family no longer exists and it is a terrible disservice to the kids to pretend it does. At least give the kids the respect of not pretending.

By all means let the children spend all the time they want with their mother, but NOT with Daddy being there too and pretending to still be a family when there isn�t one.

This is massively confusing to the kids and only teaches them that hey, you can destroy your family and nuke it to bits but still enjoy the fun parts of Family Time when you feel like it! They'll grow up expecting to do exactly this.

And they�ll grow up with the full realization that a part-time family � one with a parent who drops in for birthday parties and other fun times - is supposed to be good enough for them and they should not expect families to be full-time.

No Way. Never. Please don't do this to your kids. Families are not pets that you keep for your amusement and go and visit when you feel like it. As I said, surely your kids deserve better.

Here is an MB thread titled "The Fantasy of Divorce" which might be helpful:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1

Posted By: optimism Re: So the divorce is final in September - 09/12/10 11:54 PM
Mulan,
I guess you dusted this thread off for Whitetail due to their D is final this month.

I hope Whitetail checks in to let us know where things are at. In the meantime I want to thank you for this post. I also read the linked "fantasy divorce" thread today. It was a helpful perspective for me.

STBxw at one time definitely had visions of the fantasy divorce. Vacations, dinner over each other's houses, all that with the kids. I never understood it, but most importantly I didn't understand fully the destructive dynamic of that plan until I read your post. I'm glad I haven't engaged in any of that craziness since early in the separation. At the time I didn't know any better, and gradually I realized I couldn't move on if I was always sitting next to stbX at baseball games and what-not.

It was just never put so clearly about what kind of terrible message is being sent to kids when the parents try to do the fantasy divorce. Thanks again for taking the time to put it here.

Opt
Posted By: Mulan Re: So the divorce is final in September - 09/13/10 04:06 PM
Thanks, opt. I do feel very strongly about this. Well-meaning family, friends and therapists so often push the Fantasy Divorce as being "best for the children", when it truth it could hardly be worse. I'd sure like to see it stop. Can't tell you how much I cringed when I saw Elin and Tiger Woods having a "play date" together with their children. So many people will see that and think that's how it should be.

No way. As I said, let the kids spend all the time they want with each parent separately, but do not feed them the lie that you can nuke your family but still enjoy its benefits.

You want to be single? Single people don't have families. Have a nice day.
Originally Posted by whitetail37
The residence situation is a disaster, none of her family is here and there is no room at my mom's plus no way I'll leave so she can say i deserted them. We bought the house last May and two months later she started the EA followed a month later by the PA. Now where stuck with a house with a crap market. We've been trying to sell the house but no luck so far and neither of us can afford it on our own. I told her to leave however if she does she is taking my daughter with her 7 hours away.


Wow! My same exact sitch. It blows. WW is out in the living room now watching TV. I'm in the back room watching football. Kids are upstairs sleeping.

I can't afford to move out. We're trying to sell the house, but so far nothing. I'm still paying all the bills, as she makes little to no money.

She wants to move with the kids to her parents, 1000 miles away, but I'm making her stay here until the house sells so at least I can spend every day with my kids until then.

I just want to move on, but I'm caught in this impossible limbo.
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