my wh and i have separated. we lived in queen creek az and we have been struggling for some time, he is controling and manipulative and was involved in an EA. i left him on the advise of many, especially from here, and went to my mothers in show low az, about 3 hrs away. i have been a sahm for nearly 5 yrs and wo income or family in the area, i had no better choice than to come here.the kids and i have been here roughly 2 weeks.

the fist weekend, 3 days after i left, i allowed my husband to take the kids for the weekend on the stipulation that he sign and notoroize a good faith aggreement to return them on sunday. yesterday i allowed him to pick up the kids for this weekend under the same stipulation, which he provided. An hour later i got a call from him

"i filed for divorce and i have sole custodial custody, the kids will not be going back"

i have not yet been served. he said he has enrolled them in daycare. i have never been away from my kids for more than 2 nights. he told me "i want you to know how i felt" well i know now, but he will not give me the same good faith i gave him to see the kids.

before i left he told me he had been worried about losing his job...i think it must have been a ploy to make me feel sorry for him (he is extremely narcisistic) he told me last night that his work is payinhg for his lawyer!

i had been sitting on my divorce papers because he was seeking counsing and i truly believed he could chang his controlling and manipulative ways. i told him i just wanted time. that i wanted to take an online class and when it was done to court again and find new reasons to love him. well he showed his true colors didn't he.

so now we will enter into a custody battle. what do you all know about that? to me it only makes sense that the kids stay with me becauase i hav family support and i can take care of the kids without daycare. i amk stil a stay at home mom! also he had an order of protection on him and when he tried to get it released he withdrew and then the judge decided to put the kids on it. i had it removed when he sought counsling, of course he threatened me again as soon as he came home when my dad wouldn't let him have the guns back. i need a lawyer...

So sorry you are going through this L2L. I'm pretty ticked at your H right now. Having an affair and taking your kids. What an azz.

At this time, you're going to need a game plan.

- lawyer up
- document everything that's happened with the affair, and try to get any proof of the past or any current affairs.
- document every aspect of how you cared for the kids, and how your husband has taken your kids.

I can't see how a judge will be too keen on the dad kidnapping the kids. I'd want to file something with your attorney right away to get this ball rolling so that you can get your kids back.

Hi L2L, I'm sorry you're here. The weekend is slow, so try to remain composed, read as much as you can about this site and its concepts until the veterans drop in to help.

Your husband has just put himself into a very risky position. Simply filing for divorce does not automatically grant one custody of one's children. What he has done is essentially kidnapped them!

A lawyer is an absolute necessity. If you cannot afford one, you might be able to get one from Legal Aid. But please, if you can come up with a retainer, please hire a good family law attorney. Get a pit bull of an attorney!

MJ has given you the best immediate advice. Before you address the issue of you and your husband, you need to make sure the law is aware of the dangerous position he has put your kids in.

Do it now!

Get a lawyer NOW and get an emergency court order for the return of your children!

it was his deliberate plan to tell me at 430 on friday knowing that my hands would be tied until monday. i will file for and emergency court order first thing monday, then off to see a lawyer. it is my hope that if his work is truly providing an attny that it is the company's business atty and not a family atty. my parents are going to help me with atty retainer. and i truly believe the lord is on my side. anybody know if i can go to the kids new daycare and pick them up?

What your wh has done is illegal. You do not file for divorce and assume you have custody.

This guy, the same one who has been threatening you and potentially dangerous has your kids?

Not only lawyer up but show all the info you have that he is potentially dangerous and a loose cannon and get an emergency hearing asap. I got one within 24 hrs.

The good Lord IS on your side, but HE imparts wisdom upon us, and wants us to stand up and take action and do the right things. Nothing gets accomplished by sitting down.

Your wh is imho, a dangerous person and out of control. Get the kids away from him as well as a restraining order asap.

Why on earth did you have him sign anything in good faith? Why? A WS is a LYING person. They lie. Thats what they do. You cannot possibly believe somebody who would deceive and betray and harm the one he promised to love and cherish to do anything honorably do you?

The only thing my xwh understood was WHAT THE JUDGE TOLD HIM. His "taker" understood that if he didn't do what the judge told him, he'd be in jail and that he couldn't go have fun and rut with his ow pig. So he obeyed the judge I drug him in front of (many times btw).

I got an emergency hearing last year btw, for the NEXT DAY, regarding an emergency custody modification when I found out what my xh had been doing/did. We had joint but with me having more custody always, but now I'm sole.

You stand up for your kids. Now.

is it possible to get the emergency custody over the weekend?? is it possible that HE got emergency custody over them?? i suppose anything is possible, but to be granted emergency status he had to have lied. and is it enforceable if i havent been served??

Call the police on the non emergency number and tell them what you have been going through with WH including the RO. Tell them about his violence and what he said after he took the kids. I would think if the kids are in danger and there is documented proof he is violent they should have enough just cause to go find him and the kids.
It's worth a try!

If you have not been served with anything, then you have just as much right to pick the kids up from the daycare as he does. The only thing that might stop you is if he actually DID file and get an order and gave the day care a copy of it (which I doubt seriously). If you have to ask the police to escort you to the day care center and get your kids!

Filing means NOTHING until there is an agreement in place. Zip. He can show his CPR or drivers' license or his Sams' Club discount card to whomever he wants at the daycare along with the papers showing he filed.

NONE of that matters. Until there is a hearing in place, he has equal right to the kids as she does.

And L2L, you cannot get one over the weekend. Show up first thing in the morning at the courthouse armed with documents to show to a judge or to the assistant to the judge (in my state it is superior court). If it's presented and sounds as if the kids are in harms' way, the judge can grant you an emergency hearing soon. My judge was cool and I had proper documentation and his paralegal/assistant went into his chambers, showed him what I had, and he granted me (this was a friday afternoon) a monday morning hearing for change of custody.

You're dealing with an alien, hon. A wayward alien who is only concerned with himself.

YOU have to do two things right now. 1)file for divorce, then go to court and see judge or his/her assistant and get emergency hearing and 2)get another restraining order barring your angry and potentially dangerous wh from your home, from contact w/you or the kids and 3)you figuring out that you need to STAY AWAY from him.

You might be like I was...I was a victim of his emotional abuse during the affair (after all it IS emotional abuse and most likely you've lived through emotional trauma and maybe monthsof gaslighting)and thought I wanted to remain married to him and that I loved him. Nah. Just like Patty Hearst, I was in love with my captor/abuser and got over that reeaaaall quick when I left him.

You need a dark plan B/D and a restraining order. The only way you should ever talk to him again is if this guy realizes he messed up and is MENTALLY ill, commits himself to long term intensive IC and maybe be hospitalized for it, and shows a repentant heart combined with a clean bill of mental health. Otherwise you move on, have a great new life with the kids and rebuild.

Wish I could say different.

Sorry L2L,

You have to first FILE for divorce then go to courthouse and try to get the emergency hearing, and maybe have your lawyer go with you or have him/her pull any strings necessary to do that.

What your wh is doing is calling your bluff, trying to get you to settle to whatever he wants, divorce wise, by holding your kids hostage/over your head.

Fwiw, my x tried that too and it lasted all in all about four days before I slammed his cajones into the courthouse doors. He never walked the same after that.

The oldest playbook in the world for a wayward male divorcing is to pretend (and ww will do this too) is to pretend they are filing for full custody of the kids when they have no way in hell to even do that in their ccrazy, fogged out, selfish, wayward lives. It is a tactic to make the betrayed spouse buckle and give in to whatever their whims are legally.

L2L, when I replied to your other thread I advised you to seek a legal separation agreement that stipulates custody and support. You didn't do that.

Without a legal separation agreement, there can be no charge of kidnapping of the children. Both of you have the right to see your children and have them with you. You do not have the right to require your husband to sign any agreement about anything to see his children. The fact that you do this along with your tendency to just up and leave with your children is not going to look good in the eyes of the court. It looks like you are trying to deny access to your children. YOU may feel it is justified, but the courst are FINALLY starting to acknowledge how many women play games with denying a father access to his kids. How many men do you think there are here that have been falsely accused, that read terms like "narcissist" and "bipolar" being bandied around by someone who doesn't have formal training. Don't end up on the wrong end here.

Now before people start jumping my butt about this, look at it from another viewpoint. How easy would it be for him to claim that, yes, they have problems and have arguments, and that, yes, he does drink but not to excess, but no he has never touched her in anger and wouldn't. That he has tried to meet her demands to recover their marriage, attended counseling that didn't go well because they ganged up on him. Do you see where I am going with this? That she got the RO so he couldn't see his kids, and claims he threatened her, and comes up with a bunch of pseudo-psychological gobbledygook to justify what she wants to do, which is have the kids to herself. That he wants to recover the marriage but not if she is going to continue to dictate terms to him.

L2L, I believe you, I really do. I don't know what you have contributed towards your situation and you really don't go into exactly HOW he is controlling, but I do agree your husband needs help. I don't think your marriage IS recoverable and it would scare anyone that your husband's main priority after the RO was lifted was to demand his guns back. Yeah, that would make feel invested in the relationship. But you need to do this the right way, which is to contact an attorney ASAP to get a legally enforceable separation agreement. You both could be made to have a psychiatric evaluation, and the court will determine what is in the best interests of the children. I doubt very much that your husband would be seen as one who could provide adequate care to a chronically ill child, so it would be pretty much a given that you would retain custody. Also, based on the evidence like results of a psych eval, it may be possible to get him supervised visitation.

Get legal help NOW, L2L, because this is a highly unstable and volatile situation you find yourself in.

Peachy, he already HAS the kids. I think she was asking if SHE could pick up the kids because he's already enrolled them somewhere.

You're right though, until there is an order in place, they BOTH have equal rights to the kids. If he has obtained an exparte (without her present) order, then she has to go to court to get the kids back. She hasn't been served with an order as far as I know, but if he gave the daycare center a copy of the order, then they're not going to release the kids to her because they have no way of knowing if she's been served.

L2L, you need to find out if there has been an order issued. If not, I'd be there in a heartbeat to pick up your kids.

i am beginning to believe he actaully hasn't filed anything! it was weird because i was at the sherriffs ofc talking to a deputy about what is enforceable or not if there hasnt been any serving of papers etc, and he gave me a lot of helpful insight with his experiences. he said it might not be possible to pick up the kids from daycare if he did not loist me as a party who can pick-up the kids, but if he filled out registration with my info as the mother then wo a court order saying i cant have them, more than likely they will allow me to take them. while i was at the sheriffs ofc, he called. he started to say "that's why i wanted to file for divorce" then he paused, backtracked and said "thats why i felt i had to file for divorce". interesting isn't it. so im not really sure if he has filed or not, anyone know if there is a way i can find out? i mean he said he filed on wednesday and i still havent been served

Yes, i know, but i had truly hoped he was going to give me the space i needed because he said he would. needless to say, i no longer believe a single work that come out of his mouth.

on a funny note, he called because our daughter had an itch and she told him and he told her to scratch it and then showed him she had poo on her nail...he called and told me he was freaked out and didnt know what to do. hahaha

WASH HER HANDS WITH SOAP!!.

ofcourse this leads me to believe he is not properly cleaning her bottom after going potty

Alot of the courts now have online lookups for court records. Unless a case has been specifically sealed then it's a matter of public record. Do a google search for "District clerk of _____ county online records." You will want to look under civil cases. Most of the time you can search by party name without the case number. Some courts even have access to the actual documents filed. If your courts don't have online access then you can go in person and request to look at the file if a case has been filed. You do not have to be an attorney or a party. Anyone can look.

yup, after checking the online court records, there was nothing there. so i got myself a lawyer and followed his advice, which was get the kids first and file later, which will be tomorrow. so i booked it down to the valley to get to the house where his mother was watching the kids for the latter part of the day after their trip to daycare for half a day. all went well at first...found he had changed the locks, again. rang the bell and i was let in w/o any issues. visited for a few minutes. then notified his mother that i was leaving and taking the kids. she flipped out, ran and blocked the door! so i calmly walked to the back door and she ran out front, got in my moms car and locked herself in (ofcourse i looked at my mother and asked why she left the keys IN the car). so she called the police, which i was 100% ok with because after checking online records, i called the court as i got into the area to double check that there were no orders. so the police arrive and his mother says all excitedely "she is kidnapping the kids. my son filed for divorce and he has sole custody." the officer asked her to produce the papers and she said she didnt have them but that her son did and he was on his way. he told her, "maam, i am not going to hang out and wait for him to get here" so then he asked me and i told him yadayada, officer called my husband who confirmed that he HAD NOT FILED. and some how ther order of protections issue came up between the officer and my husband on the phone and it turned out that their system has updated and the order of protection is still enforceable!!! i even showed them the dismissal paper, but they said it didnt matter! the Lord works in WONDERFUL ways. I know some of you must have been praying for me too!

i have my kids back and i will be filing for divorce and for an immediate custody hearing or whatever its called...wont be emergency because he is of no threat to the kids and i wont lie...speaking of, he told the officers while he was on the phone that i tried to commit suicide by slitting my wrists! so the officers asked to see. which i did and the officer said to H "there is nothing there". and i feel bad for his poor mother whom he lied to and told her i couldn't legally have my own kids. but from her reactions i believe the apple doesnt fall far from the tree...

Yay!!!!! Now just be careful and get an order in place. Don't underestimate what a WS .

Just got served. and you know what, aside from the fact that he requested sole custody and physical custody, i am relieved. i do believe i should be the primary custodian. (he asked that i pay child support and put in there there i was fully able and capable to! i havent worked in nearly five years and we all know this economy! ha!) i have raised these children practically on my own. he worked out of town for nearly a year...through the toughest time of the kids' lives too, when our son was constantly hospitalized and put on a feeding tube at 6 months old. so glad i have a lawyer to see today. i just cant see a judge taking kids away from a mother who has always been the caregiver, who has no "criminal" problems and has nothing to hide, and give sole and primary custody to the father who has a felony history who lost all parental rights to a child from another woman

omg...he is mental, he filed and i just got served and he wants me to go see our marriage counselor tonight. with him.

Really? You're not playing a joke on us MB people? Ashton Kutcher isn't going to jump out of my closet, scare the carp out of the cat and hell, "you've been punked!?"

Holy heck, that's special!

Travis

Within about 5 seconds I went from "Wow, is he waking up?" to "I wonder if he's playing her...".

Watch out for this one.

Hey T...nope this is the real deal. i met with my attorney today, we had only had phne contact before, and after explaining what happened yesterday and how H immediately went from angry H with the cops to all lovey dovey with me, the atty asked "does he have a mental illness? and it wasnt a sarcastic question.

he has been trying to play me the whole time. one minute he is attaking me, th next begging for me to come home. he told the officers yesterday that i had tried to commit suicide and it wasnt safe for me to have the children! that sure does sound lke some one who loves me and wants me back...not!

Are things going ok, with no drama, at the moment?

I'm wondering what your stbx will pull next.

well my lawyer advised me not to let him take the kids anywhere, and he sent word to his lawyer that for now visitation for the kids would only be within my mothers home (where i currently am staying) i tried to be polite and offered the following:

"I have thought about and considered your proposal in regards to the kids and at this time i do not think that it is a practical solution for this weekend. First off, at the moment, doc isn't well yet. It is not a good idea to take him to church or have him playing with other children. You and I would get upset if another parent brought their green snotty nosed coughing kid around our children, we should respect other parents and not do the same. Secondly, due to the incident of last week, I am not ready to extend the amount of trust that you are asking for. Previously you stated that you were willing to come up to see the kids and I think this will be the best solution for the time being. I think a good plan would be that you come up on saturday morning and you can take the kids to lunch (not mcdonalds because we don't want to share doc's germies). The kids have said they want to go see yogi bear and it is playing up here. If you want to stay the night at a motel, the kids can stay with you. and I know that the bigger chain motels have indoor pools, so I can provide bathing suits if you want to do that, but you will need to bring their floaties. I would suggest that you dont mention swimming to the kids incase doc is feeling particularly down. You can spend as much time as you want with them on sunday as long as you let me know that morning what time you plan to drop them back off at mom's house. I believe this is a fair and reasonable solution and would love for you to spend this time with the kids."

HIS REPLY:

"That is not enough time. If I have to get a hotel then I should be able to have them Friday also. And I have every right to have the kids as long as I want doesn't matter what you are comfortable with. You are preventing me from seeing the kids by placing unreasonable conditions on their availablity. Again I would encourage you to talk to your lawyer about preventing me from seeing the kids and if he has said this is a good plan id get a new lawyer. So I counter your suggestion with this. I will still pick the kids up at 3pm Friday and return them Sunday afternoon. As for doc not feeling well, as per our previously saved conversation via text message, I am just as capable of caring for a sick child as you are. I'm sure if you take you personal feelings about me out of the situation then you will see me spending more time with the kids is in their best interest. Hope is expecting to see me tomorrow and its not right to take that away from her just because you are made at me."

I am not mad at him, i just don't trust him in the slightest.

Listen to your lawyer. If your lawyer says only allow him supervised visitation at your mother's house, then that's what you need to do.

I know you don't know me, but a long time ago, I also found myself in a situation where my ex was threatening to take my kids away from me. He threatened to disappear with them and never allow me to see them again. Judges take these threats very seriously. Because of the threats, my ex was granted supervised visitation only, with a court-appointed monitor. He chose not to exercise those visits, and disappeared completely a short time later. We didn't hear from him again for 15 years. I have no doubt he would have disappeared with my kids if he'd had the chance.

This is a very serious situation. Your lawyer is obviously taking it seriously and so should you. I know he's their dad and it is difficult on everyone to keep him away, but you need to do what is in your children's best interests.

I'm going to qualify this post with my personal opinion: I cringe whenever I see a mother dictating to a father how often he can and how he can see his children. I think that modern society's default favoring of the mother as the primary caregiver and gatekeeper of access to the children is incredibly wrong. As my STBXW and I proceed towards separation and divorce, I would NEVER think to dictate to her how and how often she could see the kids and I would expect the same courtesy out of her. I am the primary care provider for the kids and I will not settle for anything less than 50% custody of the children when we finally divorce.

Ok, so now you know how I generally feel about this sort of stuff. My advice to you is to keep your husband as far away from your children as humanly possible until you can work out a legally binding custody agreement. While I don't necessarily approve of taking the children 3 hours away from their father initially, you never took away his access to his children, you just made it much more difficult. By comparison, he took your kids away from you with every intention of never letting you see them again. He kidnapped your kids and has proven that he can't be trusted. Do you and your children a favor; follow your lawyer's advice. Protect your children and get a custody agreement in place immediately.

Travis

travis, i value your input and agree with you. i dont want to keep kids from dad or dad from kids. i didn't have a better choice on where to go when i left. it helped to hear that though you feel that parents should not dictate the conditions of contact with children, that you understand the situation at hand. my goal with custody is joint with me being the primary custodian. i believe this is the most realistic option for us both.

LISTEN TO TRAVIS!!!!

Yes, I AM yelling.

Your husband has already kidnapped your children once. Do NOT give him the opportunity to do it again. Do NOT let him have unsupervised visitation with the children again until there is a court order in place.

When there is a reasonable agreement, then if he violates it you can take him to court. Right now, your kids are vulnerable to a man who is emotionally unstable.

I know, you think you "know" your husband and so you think you know what he would do. I've got news for you - as you go through this divorce you are going to learn things you never knew about your husband.

In the past year and a half since I separated from my husband and filed for divorce, I have said "You won't believe what he did THIS time" dozens of times. Every time I think that he can't surprise me again, he does something new that's completely off the wall.

If someone had told you six months ago that your husband was going to kidnap your kids and try to prevent you from seeing them, you would have laughed because it was so ludicrous. But now you've lived through it.

You don't really know your husband. He's been pretending to be a nice guy, but he's not one.

You have paid your lawyer lots of money for advice, so DO WHAT HE/SHE SAYS!!

Do NOT leave your husband alone with the kids until there is a custody agreement!!

If you do, the courts will assume that it was okay with you that he kidnapped them. DON'T GO THERE!!!

Ok, I guess I'll have to play Devil's Advocate.

The smartest thing to have done would have been getting a legal separation agreement before walking out the door with her children. Then there's no gray area of whose rights are being violated. Without an agreement, they both have equal rights to their children. The only reason she was able to go get them back was because the policeman understood that the grandmother has no right to keep the children from their mother and actually could have been charged with trying to do so. It would have been a different story if the husband had been there.

No agreement = no kidnapping. She is just as guilty of trying to limit access as he was. I will agree that the system is incredibly biased towards women, and even more so, I decry the perception by a lot of women that the children are theirs and theirs alone. But the system is what we have in place, and as flawed as it is people taking the law into their own hands never ends up well. Better to work within that system. Lots of men, some on this board, who have had wives that used that bias against men with incredible success, getting them out of their homes and away from their kids with a trumped up abuse charge and subsequent RO, and then rolling that into justification for limited access after the divorce. Of course you have those few men who get primary custody, but in actuality they are a statistical anomaly. Regardless, I still advocate following the law in any circumstance.

TCCoastGuard, I hope that your case works out well for you but I would counsel that you don't have any predetermined outcome in mind. I have yet to hear of any woman standing up in court and asking for equal time for the husband because he was such a great father. I would say that perhaps you could see that in Pleasantville, but in Pleasantville people don't get divorced.

My advice to her is the same as it was before - get the agreement in place as soon as possible.

i have never tried to keep the kids from their father. ever. nor have i wanted to. i have been gone since jan 27th and he has had the children every weekend. because i made the arrangements for him to have them. he did not have to beg or plead because i am a reasonable person. what is unreasonable is to keep me from seeing the children and enrolling them in daycare when i am a stay at home mother and our son spent his whole life disabled until 2 months ago when his feeding tube was removed becase his condition is in remmission. h's requirement for me to see the kids was to a)move back into the house and subsequently back under his control or b)move to the area, which is immpossible because i have nowhere to live and no income to support myself. yes i am capable of getting a job, but how does that keep my immune impaired child in my care, the care that is the best for him?

yea, i should have filed then left, but when you are being emtionally controlled the best thing to do was leave. i still struggle with the contact i have with H because he continues his control and manipulative tactics. after i "picked up" the kids, he called and left i love you messages, lets work it out yada yada. and then 2 nights ago he said he needed to talk to me for closure. when i wouldnt talk to him he sent me a picture of one of our wedding photos via text saying "all becaus a girl sang to me". want to hear somethng interesting? out of all our wedding photos, he chose to send the one where it looks like im in a headlock. how effed up is that?

The courts probably won't care that he's having an affair.

However, they will care that you are suggesting they no longer stay in the marital home. So in other words, who REALLY took the kids?

If I recall the facts, you moved out of your home and are living with your mother. By doing so, it could be viewed that you were taking the children away from both their father and their home.

If your WH is keeping the children in the marital home and you are choosing to live elsewhere, you are giving your husband an advantage when it comes to primary custody.

Frankly, it may look like YOU took the kids from their home and left and now want to limit his access to the kids.

So while I think adulterous spouses should only have supervised time with their children, regardless the gender of the adulterous spouse, I also understand the courts usually don't care. In some cases, the law specifically prohibits adultery being used as a factor in determining custody.

So what that means is if may look as if you took the kids from your husband and the marital home.

EE is absolutely correct. It actually doesn't matter how great a mom you are or how crappy a dad he is, it's all about the evidence that you can present. He said/she said isn't evidence. In fact, that type of approach makes you appear vindictive, even if you are telling the truth. Taking the kids to their grandmother's, which is evidence, COULD BE interpreted as taking the kids and denying access to their father. Saying you had to get out of there due to something he did is heresay. Though the law is very generous when you claim abuse.

Important Note: Do NOT claim abuse if there wasn't any. Not only will it come back and bite you in the a$$ later, you are making it much more difficult for truly battered wives to escape.

Another thing, I highly doubt any judge will agree that the fact that you are a SAHM automatically makes you a better parent. Especially a single parent. Sure, you will qualify for child support, and possibly even spousal support, but often that is limited to a period of time. You need to demostrate that you have a plan to provide a good life for your children. The plan can include staying with your mom until they are in school, but meanwhile taking correspondence coarses to increase your employability. I tell you this not to be harsh, but as a cold hard fact. Judges do not like the SAHM card AT ALL. Judges are very ambitious people who've spent years working 80-90 hours a week to get where they are, quite often as parents and even as single parents. They do understand that SAHM's can't just up and start working, but you will certainly rub them the wrong way by using this as a manner to show that your are a better parent than your WH.

You need to get your legal ducks in a row and soon. You cannot believe what your WH says. Waywards lie. You can tell when they are lying because their lips move. Everything he says to you is a lie. Not only that, he'll change his lies and try to convince you he didn't. You need something legally binding and written down so you can stick to it and follow it.

just to let you all know, i didn't follow my lawyer's advice. i arranged for my stbx to take the kids this weekend...he brought them back on time.

he also asked if we could all go out for dinner and i told him yes but i would take a separate vehicle. he asked why and i told him becuase that was what i would be comfortable with...i did not want to be trapped in a vehicle with him. then he laid on the guilt trip "the kids want us to be together. why cant you see that? why cant you just ride with us?" so i dropped the conversation and continued to settle the kids in. and when he was about to leave he asked again and this time said, "you can take a separate car." i told him no. he got that familiar angry look, stood up and said "you're a piece of work" and walked out. what do ya'll make of that?

caught him on the phone telling our 4 yr old that "mommy is mean" and "mommy is selfish". the only thing i have ever said to the kids about thre dad is "daddy loves you, daddy misses you etc". but that definately explains why DD came from his house and asked if i was going to go home when i got better and wasnt sick anymore.

yes i let the lawyer know so they can contact his lawyer to remind him or whatever they do that that is against the current order

Good for you. He is BREAKING the law when he does that garbage. Is there any way you can record the phone calls? You'll need to talk to your lawyer about the legalities in your state.

haha, H says he is recording the phone calls. talked to my laywer today and he said that Hs lawyer has not submitted anything and also that when he filed for temp. custody orders and asked for child support he was supposed to also submit a parenting plan and child support work sheet, which he nor his lawyer did. but both were submitted by my lawyer in the response. we are supposed to have a court date next week, but that might not happen now.

i got a text earlier today from H saying "i miss you" i never know from one hour to the next which person H is going to be. nasty or nice? either way, i don't miss him an ounce.

Best thing your lawyer could do is order parental psych evaluations - both of you undergo the tests.

That way they get a diagnosis on him and can protect your children. And you can prove it's not you.

what do you know about the evals? H is very cunning. i think is why he was never actually diagnosed with a mental disorder. he is a master manipulater.

My WH accused me of being mentally unstable and we had to undergo the Mental Evals as a result. He was very cunning as well, but I won. I have a special needs child too. I was a brilliant mother to him and my DD, he was absent. All could be verified. I had no mental disorder (except for the temporary insanity that led me to marry him to begin with.) I don't think it went very far into anything after those facts. I got full custody.

he said he wants to work out a parenting agreement with me and we both take it to our lawyers to avoid court and attorny fees. he said he wanted to save us both money, especially since his lawyer in in casa grande and mine in show low, but the court is in florence. so i told him to write his proposal and email it to me so i can go over it, because he had not given me anything like that. i on the other hand gave him a written proposal and he told me last week he agreed to it and would take it to his lawyer and sign it. now he is renigging on that and says he wants the kids ever other week for the full week. i don't see how that can be conducive for the kids and he wouldnt see them much more than he already does anyway because they would have to be in day care 9hrs a day. when i asked him to write that he said "you are forcing me to do this the hard way and it's gonna cost a lot of money. and i will demand reconciliation court so that will be 3 trips for your laywer" what an a$$. anyway. what are your experiences with week on week off custody? i think he fails to keep in mind that this is only in regards to temporary custody. and with week on week off, i could lose my new job. once i finish orentation i will more than likely be working weekends and keeping the arrangements as they have been going allows each parent to have the children on days off. he is being extremely difficult. id be more than happy to let him take the kids more often if he wasnt just sticking them in daycare.

Keep in mind that week on, week off wouldn't really work once the kids got to be school age, especially if you're still living so far apart. And your oldest is 4, so kindergarten isn't all that far off.

i dont think week on week off would work because he is already telling the kids mommy is mean and selfish and she doesnt love you as much as me etc. i think a week of that at 4 yrs old will really mess her up

why am i so confused? after all he has done to me and the kids, why have i started to miss him and think that i want us to work out our marriage? through all of this he has insisted that he doesnt want a divorce and my walls have been so high up that D is the only thing i wanted. i was asked out on a date and since then i have begun to waiver on my decision to D. is that normal? lord knows im not ready to date, nor do i want to, so why did the possibility send me into a confused state of whether or not i truly want a D? fear of the unknown? how does it work if we decide to put a stay on the D with the kids and me living 3 hrs away? do the courts still honor custody agreements? and how do i deal with the fact that faced with divorce H has thrown himself into the church...LDS...and i have found that though the principles there are great, i just don't believe in the Book of Mormon and i want to find a different church. well i guess that would be a good test.

The LDS have very specific ideas about M. I think you would have to get on board (or at least agree to) these ideas, or a reconciliation would be a disaster.

That is not judging the LDS. That is pointing out a fact.

You need to get a plan. Do not date. Do not even think of it now. Are you giving messages (w/o realizing - that you are available?- just asking.)

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