My wife has been involved in a EA for about 1 1/2months. She met this guy in west Virginia while she was on orders (she's reserve) she came home and told me she doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce. I responded with anger and we had an argument since then we had three or so arguments concerning this. Right now I moved out and we are headed for a separation. I currently stay with a co worker and she stays with the kids in the house we shared. I am desperately seeking some advice on fixing my marriage she is steadfast on wanting a divorce and constantly says she needs her space. She says she isn't talking to him anymore I exposed the affair to everyone we know. He also has a fianc� or roommate as he tells my wife and I sent her a message on Facebook still havent received a reply. I know the is a player he has four kids with 2 different women. I have a son and a stepson with my wife. I know she strayed because of mu video gaming and lack of attention and affection I shown her. I stopped playin the video games dropped 50lbs. My change in behavior was because I was stressed and depressed about my job. She has a history of depression and now that I think she stop taking her meds. She is back on them now and I noticed a change, am right for trusting he word on not speaking to this guy anymore? She claims she doesnt want to work on the marriage. What should my next step be?
Step #1 is to MOVE HOME. TODAY. Just go home unannounced. SEcond step is to drive to the OM's house and tell his girlfriend in person. If you want to save your marriage you will need to run off the OM.
I am sorry you are here ... however this is the best place to get the support you need to fight for your marriage.
YOur wife has most likely gone PA if your not in the house, ESPECIALLY if she told you it was an EA .. usually you get trickle truthed .. GO HOME! ... Cant fix your marriage if your not with her.
SHe doesnt need space ... if your financially involved in the home still or paying for her to be there ... you go home .. walk in like you own the place ... be cool .. calm .. and collective. WHen she asks you why your home .. you simply tell her its your place ... and if SHE is so bent on this affair SHE can go. Then ask her if she wants a cookie .. DO NOT engage is any hysterical behaviour ... do NOT have an outburst .. be calm .. and assertive.
If your wife wants some "space" [code word meaning she wants you out so she can bring the OM into your home] clean out a corner of your garage and make a little "space" for her. If she doesn't like that, then SHE can leave.
The OM Lives in Florida while my wife and I stay in Illinois. I'm thinking of setting up a spy bug on her computer to make sure also is there any way to monitor an android phone?
The OM Lives in Florida while my wife and I stay in Illinois. I'm thinking of setting up a spy bug on her computer to make sure also is there any way to monitor an android phone?
The OM Lives in Florida while my wife and I stay in Illinois. I'm thinking of setting up a spy bug on her computer to make sure also is there any way to monitor an android phone?
The OM Lives in Florida while my wife and I stay in Illinois. I'm thinking of setting up a spy bug on her computer to make sure also is there any way to monitor an android phone?
Do they have planes, cars or trains in Florida? I flew to Illinois a couple of months ago and was there in TWO HOURS.
She can also carry on her affair via the phone and computer. Much easier to do if you manipulate your husband into leaving HIS OWN HOME so you can have some"space."
If I agreed to separate from her will it hurt if I reverse my decision? Also are those spyware undectable? How do I get it on an android phone? Should I ask her if she is still talking to him?
If I agreed to separate from her will it hurt if I reverse my decision?
It will hurt if you DON'T, Sir! The only thing worse than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise. If she wants to "separate" to get "space' to carry on her affair, then she can leave.............WITHOUT YOUR CHILDREN.
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Also are those spyware undectable? How do I get it on an android phone?
You can get eblaster on an android phone here: spectorsoft.com
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Should I ask her if she is still talking to him?
I would not ask, but do some super snooping and then DEMAND that she end all contact with the OM.
You can report the OM to the military and they will put a no contact order on that RAT. In the meantime, I would expose this affair wide and far. Go read the link in my signature on exposure tips.
If I agreed to separate from her will it hurt if I reverse my decision? Also are those spyware undectable? How do I get it on an android phone? Should I ask her if she is still talking to him?
Tell her you changed you mind about separation, and that if she wants to separate and carry on her adultery, then she can move out.
Yes, the spyware is undetectable. You'll have to figure out a way to separate her from that phone, or if you can't do that, render it inoperable "accidentally on purpose". Toilets are good for more than just pooping! Then you go and buy her a new one and install the software before giving it to her.
Why ask her a question that you already know the answer to and that she's going to lie about anyway?
You can report the OM to the military and they will put a no contact order on that RAT. In the meantime, I would expose this affair wide and far. Go read the link in my signature on exposure tips.
Dark, is the OM military too? You never mentioned that if so.
Ok I'm going to the lawyer tomorrow and I'll let her know then I'm moving back in your right it's gonna suck but I have to put my foot down.
I would not let her know at all. Forewarned is forearmed. I would just go home. And if she goes crazy and starts ranting and raving [which she will] just offer her a potato chip and pat her on the head. Move right back into your own room.
If she calls the police on you, tell them this is your home and your wife is having an affair and wants you to leave. Tell them you won't leave. They might try to get you to leave to "keep the peace.' Assure them you are commited to peace but won't be leaving your home without a court order.
And whatever you do, don't let your lawyer talk you out of it. Lawyers are little more than divorce facilitators and don't care about saving your marriage. You need to tell him what you will be doing and inform him that it will be his job to make sure you are protected. He works for you, after all!
Ok I'm going to the lawyer tomorrow and I'll let her know then I'm moving back in your right it's gonna suck but I have to put my foot down.
I would not let her know at all. Forewarned is forearmed. I would just go home. And if she goes crazy and starts ranting and raving [which she will] just offer her a potato chip and pat her on the head. Move right back into your own room.
If she calls the police on you, tell them this is your home and your wife is having an affair and wants you to leave. Tell them you won't leave. They might try to get you to leave to "keep the peace.' Assure them you are commited to peace but won't be leaving your home without a court order.
And whatever you do, don't let your lawyer talk you out of it. Lawyers are little more than divorce facilitators and don't care about saving your marriage. You need to tell him what you will be doing and inform him that it will be his job to make sure you are protected. He works for you, after all!
Also, you might want to pick up a VAR (voice activated recorder) before you go back if you think she might go off and call the cops. Been too many sitches around here where the WW made up stories to cops to rid their BHs from the property. You can get one at Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc., and they're are cheap but worth their weight in gold.
Your marriage is under assault by the OM and your wife. If you don't start fighting for your marriage, they will destroy your life. Running because your wife wants "space" will not save your marriage; it is to surrender to the enemy. This is the approach of those who have saved their marriages:
You need to RAISE HELL with the OM and run that POS off.
Yes he's military and there isn't much I can do cause they havent slept together. They both reserve and she claims she wants a divorce and not work on the marriage I tried to contact the OM significant other via Facebook. She was arrested for domestic battery against me. She got out and claimed the drama was too much and told him to leave her alone. She claims even though she isn't with him she won't be with me. I exposed the affair which I believe is the catalyst for that. I stayed 2 nights from home and have the lawyer appointment tomorrow it's just a consultation. So I will go and afterwards, I will be home in my room like you all advised. If she is done talking with him, should I try to contact the OM fianc� till I get a response?
Yes he's military and there isn't much I can do cause they havent slept together. They both reserve and she claims she wants a divorce and not work on the marriage I tried to contact the OM significant other via Facebook. She was arrested for domestic battery against me. She got out and claimed the drama was too much and told him to leave her alone. She claims even though she isn't with him she won't be with me. I exposed the affair which I believe is the catalyst for that. I stayed 2 nights from home and have the lawyer appointment tomorrow it's just a consultation. So I will go and afterwards, I will be home in my room like you all advised. If she is done talking with him, should I try to contact the OM fianc� till I get a response?
I would still contact the OM's chain of command and tell them everything. Ask them to issue a no contact order. In the meantime, expose the affair to the OM's GF and all of his family and friends. Does that RAT have a facebook page? If so, go NOW and copy and paste all his contacts into a WORD doc so you can expose to them all.
Please go read the thread in my signature. One of our members, a JAG, wrote instructions on how to do a military exposure.
Yes she does, the OM deleted his page. I tried contacting her before via Facebook and haven't received a response. Also, I couldn't find the exposure for a military no contact order. Please give me step by step instructions to this is my first time using a forum.
You do know there is about a 90% chance they did sleep together.
You just need to gather your evidence and expose to his commander, I'm not sure if the guard uses inspector generals or not, but if they do you can file a complaint.
We were in the car and I told her to put him on the phone, I know now that was a mistake. Then I threatened to tell his fianc� via Facebook and she didnt so I sent the message then she got mad the said she is going to jump from the car it was going 85 mph on the highway I was driving I pulled over. She repeatedly stated she is going to kill herself via walkin into traffic. I held her and so did my. One year old when I wouldnt let her she hit and scratched me the police came and arrested her for domestic battery.
If I agreed to separate from her will it hurt if I reverse my decision? Also are those spyware undectable? How do I get it on an android phone? Should I ask her if she is still talking to him?
Why would you agree to separate?? OH HELL NO YOU DON'T! Let her know that you will NOT let your marriage end over some skanky-assed affair! GO HOME!
We were in the car and I told her to put him on the phone, I know now that was a mistake. Then I threatened to tell his fianc� via Facebook and she didnt so I sent the message then she got mad the said she is going to jump from the car it was going 85 mph on the highway I was driving I pulled over. She repeatedly stated she is going to kill herself via walkin into traffic. I held her and so did my. One year old when I wouldnt let her she hit and scratched me the police came and arrested her for domestic battery.
She is in the throes of complete addiction right now. She is not herself. Understand that, Dark. This isn't the woman you married. Stay with us - we'll help you.
Yes she does, the OM deleted his page. I tried contacting her before via Facebook and haven't received a response. Also, I couldn't find the exposure for a military no contact order. Please give me step by step instructions to this is my first time using a forum.
Go and copy and paste the OM's GF contacts into a WORD doc for safekeeping. Find her mother, aunt, sisters, dad on that list. Send them a message telling htem about OMs affair with your wife and ask them to have her contact you directly.
Go read my exposure thread and read Mortarman and GJMs posts about military exposure.
Yes she does, the OM deleted his page. I tried contacting her before via Facebook and haven't received a response. Also, I couldn't find the exposure for a military no contact order. Please give me step by step instructions to this is my first time using a forum.
Go and copy and paste the OM's GF contacts into a WORD doc for safekeeping. Find her mother, aunt, sisters, dad on that list. Send them a message telling htem about OMs affair with your wife and ask them to have her contact you directly.
Go read my exposure thread and read Mortarman and GJMs posts about military exposure.
I'll even make a little easy for you.
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Melody, here goes on the exposure part with military members.
If one or both of the infidels are members of the military, you have a GREAT asset! Why? Because it is against the law to commit adultery. And their command can and will order them to cease and desist...and me even punish them!
How do you do this? Well, each service is a little different. So, you will need to figure out which service they are a part of and then search out the corresponding agency that handles it. In the Army (and the Air Force), they have an Inspector General. The Navy/Marines should also.
The reason I say go to the IG, rather than the commander of the person's unit, is that many times, the commander might like the servicemember (SM) so they might just sweep it under the rug. That you do NOT want to happen! So, with the IG, they will go to the commander, tell him that they have this complaint...and the commander will conduct an investigation. The IG will oversee this, making sure that the commander does the right thing...and if a violation is found, that the appropriate actions/punishment happen. It will NOT be swept under the rug!
At the same time, even if ABSOLUTE proof is not found, at the very least, that commander is going order the SM to not contact your spouse...because the IG is hanging over their head. He/she will just tell them that even if nothing is going on, they are ordered not to make any more contact to make SURE nothing will go on!
So, as I said, the IG is the place to go.
When you call the IG, make sure you have at least the SM's name, his/her rank and unit, if you can get it. If you need help, ask someone you know that knows military rank and unit patches, and have them look at Facebook pictures or describe to them what their uniform looks like. Tell the IG everything you know. There are privacy protections...so you can give them info in confidence (one note: any information that directly implicates someone in an illegal act is not covered by privacy protections. Please understand that an IG is a Federal investigator!).
The IG will be adept at receiving these kinds of complaints, so will have additional questions for you. Answer them completely. If you dont know the answer, tell them you dont know. Or if you can get the answer, ask them if you should and get back to them.
Again, I cannot emphasize this enough...an IG is a Federal investigator. Which means, if you lie to them...there is jailtime and a huge fine. So dont do it! Tell them nothing but facts!!
At the end of the interview, the IG will advise you that they will pursue this...but they will not be able, sue to privacy rights, to let you know what the results of the investigation are. But you wont need them!!
Why? Because when that SM immediately stops contacting your spouse or contacts your spose and tells them they have been ordered not to see them anymore...then things will go nuclear. But that is the beauty of exposure. But unlike exposure in the civilian world, after exposure with a military member involved...well, no contact will be implemented immediately.
How do we know? Because if the SM is ordered not to see your spouse, and they do...then they have disobeyed a direct order. Then you call the IG, tell them contact continues. And there is almost nothing worse in the military than disobeying a direct order!! There WILL be criminal charges then!
So, do you research. Find out what unit they are in...or at least what post/base they are from. Then contact the unit of base/post IG. Do this at the same time that you do your exposure elsewhere (family, friends, etc).
Note: I wish that in the civilian world, there should be laws just like the military has.
Thirty five(?) posts and almost four hours ago I gave you your first step. By now you should have been plumping up your pillows and having a cup of HOME-made cocoa!
Thirty five(?) posts and almost four hours ago I gave you your first step. By now you should have been plumping up your pillows and having a cup of HOME-made cocoa!
Yep! DS, when we say now, we mean right now! Don't succumb to that fear that I know you are feeling. Time for you to start taking back some control of your life.
BTW, if you by any chance misinterpreted Mel's suggestion about going back to your room (as in you slept in a separate bedroom), that's not what she meant. She means getting back in YOUR marital bed. If she has a problem with that, then she can find somewhere else to sleep. If she doesn't want to be in the same house with you, then she can leave...without your child.
Thanks everyone I'll look up the IG info and I'm in the house now and I will be in my bed in the next 2 min. Please I hope this works I'm so desperate to get my wife back so I can focus on her needs like I used to.
Thanks everyone I'll look up the IG info and I'm in the house now and I will be in my bed in the next 2 min. Please I hope this works I'm so desperate to get my wife back so I can focus on her needs like I used to.
Good man!! Is she there? What did she say when you came home?
And whatever you do, DO NOT TELL HER ABOUT YOUR EXPOSURE PLANS, ok? This has to be a huge surprise.
Thanks everyone I'll look up the IG info and I'm in the house now and I will be in my bed in the next 2 min. Please I hope this works I'm so desperate to get my wife back so I can focus on her needs like I used to.
You're back in the house already? I'm impressed. I assumed you were no more willing to listen and believe us just yet than most BHs on this board.
Well she said I'm getting comfy and it's against the rules but that's it. I really think she stopped talking to him. I'm leaning towards bugging her computer and then going to the IG if I find contact. Tomorrow I'll stay here tonite again but thursday I have to go to the field I'm military too, I'll be gone till Sunday. She works 3rd shift so Sunday is her day off and the first time we will be in the be together asleep. I wish I would of done this sooner thanks fellow MBers
Thanks everyone I'll look up the IG info and I'm in the house now and I will be in my bed in the next 2 min. Please I hope this works I'm so desperate to get my wife back so I can focus on her needs like I used to.
I'm leaning towards bugging her computer and then going to the IG if I find contact.
I would definitely bug her computer, but I would also report this RAT to the IG so they can issue a no contact order. This will scare him off for good.
A good keylogger is eblaster. You can get it at the same wed address I gave you before. The eblaster keylogger will email you reports so you only have to have access one time.
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Well she said I'm getting comfy and it's against the rules but that's it.
Now she talking about me violating rules and crying cause she had to leave the OM which happened 2 days ago and she claims she loves him?! I know I shouldn't be show anger but what should I do ignore her? What should I do stand tall and firm?! Is this normal after an affair ends?
Now she talking about me violating rules and crying cause she had to leave the OM which happened 2 days ago and she claims she loves him?! I know I shouldn't be show anger but what should I do ignore her? What should I do stand tall and firm?! Is this normal after an affair ends?
Thanks I'm going to enact plan get my wife back now. Wish me luck and I will be posting a lot so don't be angry with me. I'll be looking forward to Sunday!
Now she talking about me violating rules and crying cause she had to leave the OM which happened 2 days ago and she claims she loves him?! I know I shouldn't be show anger but what should I do ignore her? What should I do stand tall and firm?! Is this normal after an affair ends?
Just let her know that you are home to stay! And tell her you are sure sorry she is so upset. Don't fight, cry, plead or get angry. Just be calm and realize you are dealing with a falling down drunk. She is high on her affair. So your job is to kill the affair.
And then tomorrow, expose the hell out of the affair. Contact the OM's fiance, his IG, and all your wife's family members. Exposure will blow this affair up.
Ignore it, it's just the fogbabble like Brainy posted to you above. Essentially, drunk talk.
Concentrate on gathering intel and getting your plan together for the IG and others. In your case I would focus ALL my attentions on the IG. This will kill it dead. You can bet on it.
But, while you're doing that, get your butt into an [censored] kicking Plan A....carrot style.
You don't want to just show her what you are capable of taking away from her, but what you are capable of providing for her.
She's fallen out of love with you right now. That is what it is. Accept it.
Ok so I will start Plan A when I get back from the field. Will she be resistant at first? If she is ignore and keep it up? I know I lost her because of neglect at what point should I hug her or even touch her? Will flowers or a card suffice?
Whoah ... DSC .. your doing a fantastic job! Back in the house already? I think thats record time here ...
Good job man. Be firm .. and assertive. Almost like Dog Whispering. Dont let your emotions make your decions. Keep to the plan and listen to the vets. You have a great chance here.
Some more background information on WW her 1st relationship ever was with my stepson's father and it lasted 4 years and was really physically abusive. Prior to coming here I have had 3 angry outburst with her and punched a wall when she told me about wanting a divorce and me snooping on her Facebook to find out about the OM. We been dating/living together for a year and married 4. The OM was arrested for sex acts with a familial child march this year. He told her his ex wife convinced his eldest daughter that he molested her. I did a background check on him and found out it wasnt close as the OM says. He told my WW it was closed in April. He has 3 kids with the ex wife and one with the fianc� and is a campus police officer. I tried contacting the fianc� to no avail via facebook should I send her another message? Where can I find steps and ideas for plan A?
I'm in the house now and I will be in my bed in the next 2 min.
Way cool!
...crying cause she had to leave the OM which happened 2 days ago and she claims she loves him?!
Can you secretly record some of the "anguish"? It would be useful supportive evidence during the IG's investigation into POSOM's actions toward ruining your marriage.
Let her cry. Hand her a tissue, make her a cup of tea, but maintain the rigid posture of being willing to work on the marriage, with no compromises on the requirements she must agree to.
Now she talking about me violating rules and crying cause she had to leave the OM which happened 2 days ago and she claims she loves him?! I know I shouldn't be show anger but what should I do ignore her? What should I do stand tall and firm?! Is this normal after an affair ends?
This is normal. My wife layed on the couch crying for 3 days. Exposure needs to happen TODAY. I didn't expose it and she got tired of being sad and the OM wanted sex so thy got back together.
I tried to send messages on Facebook and it get deems as spam any way around this? I gave her a kiss on the cheek before heading to work was that a good idea?
I tried to send messages on Facebook and it get deems as spam any way around this? I gave her a kiss on the cheek before heading to work was that a good idea?
Space the messages out 60 seconds apart. It will let you go again in a few hours.
I would also expose the affair to all your family members. Did you read my exposure thread?
Yes sent voicemail and will be doing a fax form as well. While exposing should I also try to meet her ENs or is it too soon? I have to be gone for 5 days from the house I feel this will hurt my efforts.
Ok so I will start Plan A when I get back from the field. Will she be resistant at first? If she is ignore and keep it up? I know I lost her because of neglect at what point should I hug her or even touch her? Will flowers or a card suffice?
This is tough minefield to navigate.
Plan A is about meeting your spouses emotional needs as well as you can and as well as she allows you to. WITH NO EXPECTATIONS!!! (This sentence actually says a lot, so let me break it down further.)
As a review, you get the most bang for you buck meeting the 4 most intimate emotional needs, conversation, recreational companionship, affection, and sexual fulfillment.
You claim you were neglectful before the affair, so I'm guessing you were lacking in conversation, recreation, and probably affection. So start by meeting the needs of conversation and recreation, you will get the least amount of resistance here and it will start laying the foundation for meeting the other intimate needs.
Make 15 hours a week of undivided attention happen. Period.
Schedule some fun outings. A dinner date is always nice, but it leaves the door open to serious conversations about the relationship which you kind of want to avoid at this juncture. Go zip lining, kayaking, music festival, something fun that also provides an escape.
Affection is going to be tougher. If your wife has really broken it off with the OM, then she is still grieving, still feels loyalty to him, and is still vilifying you to justify the affair. For these reasons she is likely to resist signs of affection like hugs, kisses, cuddling, etc. So start slowly, with a passing squeeze of the shoulder or just a touch on the arm. A peck on the cheek when you left for work was good if she didn't seem to mind. You can take things a little further when she starts being receptive to these little gestures, but keep it safe and non-sexual. And when she resists (not if), then back off graciously and DO NOT pout or look hurt. This is what I mean by no expectations.
Admiration is alway a great way to show affection, but again be careful not to go over the top. Saying she looks gorgeous today when she's in sweats with no makeup will probably seem a little fake.
I'm guessing SF will be out of the question at this point, so do not force the issue or bring it up constantly. When you two get comfortable with affection, then the SF will come naturally. But, it may be a lengthy process.
Flowers, cards, and gifts are always nice, but don't go too far out of character with them. A spouse who cheated and wants a divorce would never deserve a dozen roses, so it would feel fake or contrived to her to get them at this point. The "NOW he finally does this for me" reaction can build more resentment than love bank deposits, so be careful of that.
She will be resistant and distrustful that you will be able to keep up the new you. Only time and consistency will break down these barriers. So now you meet her needs faithfully and consistently with NO EXPECTATIONS.
The affair needs to be exposed in a strategic way all on the SAME DAY. Has the affair been exposed to:
her parents close friends your children over age 4 your family the OM's family [can you find them? ask the OM's GF for his mothers contact info]
Go look on the OM's GF's FB page and see if you can spot the OM's family members. If she has you blocked, then sign out and look at her page that way.
You want to email or call all the exposure targets and ask them to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair and work on the marriage. The goal is to have exposure raining down on her head on one day. Here are the talking points:
Originally Posted by sample letter
Dear friends and family,
I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a old boyfriend named xxxxx xxxxx who resides in xxxxxx. He is also married and has young children . The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.
She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.
As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.
Yes sent voicemail and will be doing a fax form as well. While exposing should I also try to meet her ENs or is it too soon? I have to be gone for 5 days from the house I feel this will hurt my efforts.
DSC, get your exposures done TODAY so you can move on from this step. You don't want to drag this out. And yes, part of Plan A is that you attempt to meet your wife's ENs. She won't likely allow you to do that, but you should look for opportunities to do so.
Expose, expose, expose, and try to do it all as close to the same point in time as possible. Get Facebook ready to blast out (read the tips on the Exposure 101 thread on this). Get contact info for OP's parents, family, close friends, employer. Have letters and e-mails already typed up and ready to mail/e-mail. Have phone numbers for everyone.
My exposure took 12 hours and I wish I had done it in 1 - 2 hours.
I can't I'm in the military it's just till Sunday tho. Thanks for your support everyone I sent messages to the fianc�'s family as well awaiting the fog babble when I get home cause I know she still talks to him even though she said she doesn't I hope I can't win her back she is my soul
Please avoid doing partial exposure. Exposure needs to happen all at once. Otherwise, the waywards get busy spinning stories to their family and friends, and the other person will tell their parents, family, friends, etc. about this crazy person who may be contacting them soon.
You may feel bad about the fact the OP's life is about to be destroyed. Do not feel bad. They destroyed their life when they chose to have the affair. You're actually doing them a big favour as maybe this will convince them not to have affairs in the future. People need to hit rock bottom to choose to finally change.
What should is say when she starts all the fogbabble? My issue has been falling into arguments and getting angry any line I can say to be neutral and not be a LB
What should is say when she starts all the fogbabble? My issue has been falling into arguments and getting angry any line I can say to be neutral and not be a LB
Just say "I am sorry you feel that way. WOuld you like a cookie?"
Just tell her you are sorry she is so upset. Don't allow her to upset you or bait you into a fight. And YES you most certainly should tell your son ASAP. Without her there.
Tell your boy all the facts about the affair, the OMs name, and explain WHY adultery is immoral. Encourage him to speak to his mother and ask questions about why she wants to wreck his family over some loser.
Saw the lawyer today for the separation. Don't worry I'm. It going through with ii was just a consultation. I'm tellin her tonite I'm not doing it gonna be stoic in call when i tell her
Done and done. She claims I'm ruining her reputation. I told her she did with her sneaky actions with the OM in her fog filled EA. she started crying claiming she doesn't talk to him and I ok let's do a no contact letter and let me see her phone log online in sprint and her emails. She declined and stated she doesn't talk to him what's the point? I said if what your saying is true then it wouldn't hurt she cried for 15 min and then left in the car. I know she is talking him and doing damage control with family and friends. I think this is working when I come back it's carrot time!
She has been gone awhile should I ignore it and stand firm or call her to see if she is ok?
She is probably with OM. This is likely be an uncomfortable time for them, since they know they are under scrutiny. And that's great! You want them to be uncomfortable. That screws with their fuzzy fantasy, and that's what you want.
I wouldn't call her. Let them wonder what you're doing next.
That's what so awesome he's lives in Florida and I live here. She is in the angry stage of grieving trying to start arguments and blaming me for her situation. I'll weather the storm and start the carrot on Sunday when I come back. She says he won't talk to her guess the drama drove the wolf away lol.
Thirty five(?) posts and almost four hours ago I gave you your first step. By now you should have been plumping up your pillows and having a cup of HOME-made cocoa!
Yep! DS, when we say now, we mean right now! Don't succumb to that fear that I know you are feeling. Time for you to start taking back some control of your life.
BTW, if you by any chance misinterpreted Mel's suggestion about going back to your room (as in you slept in a separate bedroom), that's not what she meant. She means getting back in YOUR marital bed. If she has a problem with that, then she can find somewhere else to sleep. If she doesn't want to be in the same house with you, then she can leave...without your child.
I hear Motel6 will leave the light on for her.
Man, when I haven't had ANYTHING to laugh about the last month, that was DAMN funny!
Once the fog clears, she'll figure out she can get her reputation back when people who know she had an affair see she is in a strong, loving marriage. Doesn't get much better for your reputation than that.
The deep pain and loss after an affair ends is a great time to meet the WS's ENs. It doesn't work, though, until the affair is actually over--which it doesn't sound like it is for you. You'll know when it is, because your WW will sleep for 15 hours a day, not eat, not shower, and basically do nothing except cry.
She came back angry trying to start and argument and I weathered the storm stoically I leave for military op till Sunday. Should I start the carrot then or wait till she sends a no contact letter to the OM?
For custody reasons I think you should find OM ex wife and talk with her. You need to know details. There is a lot more under that surface and you need to know if he drinks heavily, is abusive etc
Contacted IG I am currently away from the house till sundayOM resides in FL WW is in Illinois. She didn't agree to no contact letter yet. So the expos� phase is over I'll pray she won't be talking to him. When I return on Sunday I'll start meeting her ENs. Please let me know of that plan is ok?
Contacted IG I am currently away from the house till sundayOM resides in FL WW is in Illinois. She didn't agree to no contact letter yet. So the expos� phase is over I'll pray she won't be talking to him. When I return on Sunday I'll start meeting her ENs. Please let me know of that plan is ok?
Good job on contacting the IG. How was the rest of your exposure?
Awesome, she claims he won't answer her calls. Her mom coming to visit because of the exposure. OM fianc� hasnt contacted me but I'm confident the OM life is in an uproar time to start meeting EN.
The mom coming to visit CAN be good. But just keep a hidden recorder on yourself at all times for protection.
It is a fact that mothers will often side with their daughters no matter the evil in order to get the grand kids.
The potential downside is that you will have NO uA time with mother in law there. That was my experience. I called my ww dad in for support. Well he ended up hiring her an attorney while he visited and they spent all their time together.
Why does she want mom there? Because she doesn't want to be alone with you.
Also most waywards will convince their parents that you are Satan in the flesh.
Mom is a Christian? Well that's easy to sway her. Tell her that you make her daughter watch pornography and perform various sex acts. Tell her every dark little secret and that Christian lady will hate you.
Now that is a worse case scenario. But be aware of all scenarios.
The potential upside to mom visiting is that she will hopefully spend all of her time and attention on your child
Besides what's listed on the MB site are there other ways to show affection? My wife isnt doing that with her mom. Her mom loves me like a son but UA time will be affected for sure. Any ideas on how to start a good convo with a woman? Any key words to use to allow her to talk while actively listen? Should I be calling her when I'm away?
Oh one importnt thing about conversations with women. Most men are "tool Tim Taylor" fix it guys. Women talk about a problem , we offer solutions. That is not what women want. They don't want us to fix it, just listen.
Thanks I'll try to implement that going to call her today. I honestly think she is done talking to the OM. Should I still snoop? She said she would do a no contact letter via text and email but not through the mail. My guess is that she doesnt want his fianc� to find out should I accept these terms? Hopefully I have a good conversation with her and eventually move on to time without kids. Her mom coming could be a good thing so she can watch the children while we go out for some EN building.
Thanks I'll try to implement that going to call her today.
I honestly think she is done talking to the OM. Should I still snoop?
She said she would do a no contact letter via text and email but not through the mail. My guess is that she doesnt want his fianc� to find out should I accept these terms?
Hopefully I have a good conversation with her and eventually move on to time without kids. Her mom coming could be a good thing so she can watch the children while we go out for some
Plan A=s dating your WW again and meeting her most important emotional needs (carrot)
4 most important emotional needs- affection, intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship --
and at the same time letting her know adultry is wrong and the M will not continue as it has been (stick). This is done with no love busters-demands-angry outbursts and such. Informing her you will try to slay the beast that has entered into the M.
Most woman (not all) hae a high need for UA time and intimate conversation. Remember when you were dating? Explore her thoughts with with safe topics-no judgements-no fixing-just explore her thoughts and let her explore yours.
This can be huge in depositing into her LoveBank (LB$). At this point she is probably in withdrawl from the A and the deposits may not be credited right away. Explore this and see if it is a high need for her. The pay off may take a while to see but could be a huge pay off once withdrawl from the A is done.
If you would like a list of safe toics just ask. I have one that is safe for exploring.
No. The no contact letter needs to be mailed by certified mail. Your wife does not set the conditions for marital recovery. The mere fact that she is refusing to write a NC letter and sign it says the affair is still on
How do I say send it without using LBs I don't want to push her away. I showed her the letter and asked her to write and she said no. This was last week. Any other ideas I can use for her to send the letter with making demands.
How do I say send it without using LBs I don't want to push her away. I showed her the letter and asked her to write and she said no.
This was last week. Any other ideas I can use for her to send the letter with making demands.
I would take this as a sign the A is still on and there is some contact yet.Don't demand. RQ was right. Become he best you and provider of her needs and at the same time use the stick of plan a without love busters.
So ignore the NC and focus on ENs for now? How long should I do that for? She was planning on meeting him on the 21 of September. Since unexposed she says that isn't going to happen now. I'm going to put a VAR in her car to make sure but I'm not believing her. If she does meet him should I move on to plan B and make her leave the house? I'm do worried I know it hasnt been a PA yet. If it moves to that I don't know what to do if I will be able to forgive her. I'm thinking this is one big midlife crisis yet if it becomes PA I don't know...
So ignore the NC and focus on ENs for now? How long should I do that for? She was planning on meeting him on the 21 of September. Since unexposed she says that isn't going to happen now. I'm going to put a VAR in her car to make sure but I'm not believing her. If she does meet him should I move on to plan B and make her leave the house? I'm do worried I know it hasnt been a PA yet. If it moves to that I don't know what to do if I will be able to forgive her. I'm thinking this is one big midlife crisis yet if it becomes PA I don't know...
Good idea with the var and do not trust her right now. Let her actions speak not her words.
Have you read this? May help with where you are at right now.
Further down in the thread after exposure is performed it talks about the aftermath and the next steps. READ that part carefully. It may explain better than I could in my words.
I have to leave for an appointment. Will catch up later
Ok I found it and I will tell her that I just exposed on 5SEP12 should I wait awhile for her withdrawal to wear? She has been sleeping a lot nausea and not eating for about 8 days I read this will take 3 weeks. Should I wait till then to tell her the 5 steps besides the no contact letter? I'm just worried about those dates cause her cover will be going to her weekend drill in wisconsin and she has to go but her plan was to meet OM otw in Chicago and stay with him. She has to drill 9 days which 4 are optional. I'm such a wreck over this.
Also I talked to the OM on 5Sep12. I told him he needs to stay away from my wife or I will ruin his life. Sent OM an email that says this: Keep this as record you piece of sh*t if you dont stay out of my wife's life your life will be ruined. If you come here trying to interfere with her again your life will be hell. I know you committed adultery I will be calling your CO. I know you have a fianc� and multiple kids. I know all about your case of molestation. Just leave MY F*ING LIFE AND WIFE ALONE. I know you have 0 character and morals. This will be your last warning you scheming homewrecker. And a text that days this: So your sorry self have it in writing BACK OFF or else my WIFE doesn't need someone ruining her life your command will be notified if she calls you I suggest you tell her I'm done this is your only warning you conniving underhanded sneaky so called SAILOR. Should I contact him again? Or should that be enough? Like I said she claims she doesn't talk to him anymore (her choice). I believe he closed the door gently so he can resume later. Yet she refuses the NC letter should I bring it up again or deposit LB points and then bring it up?
I have an email from him to her with hotel reservations on that date for 4 days. The fianc� hasn't return my Facebook messages. That's the only other means of contact that I have with her. I sent messages to all her family about the affair according to exposure 101 thread. My guess is he smooth talked her over or she dropped him and now he's focused on my wife. I called his command 5 min ago awaiting phone call. I also petitioned an IG inspection last week. She says she has stopped talking to him but at the same time I know this info and she knows I have the info on the trip she says its canceled. I'm thinking I should tell her. It to go to her drill and reschedule it. However I feel she will not respond well and go anyways should I at least try? My points are low now I know this cause I'm away I sent her a poem I wrote via email and she claims she did not read it all. I'm calling her today at 4 to meet EN of attention and conversation. Still in the dark on what to do when I'm home. EN of affection perhaps? Ask about NC again?
Also I talked to the OM on 5Sep12. I told him he needs to stay away from my wife or I will ruin his life. Sent OM an email that says this: Keep this as record you piece of sh*t if you dont stay out of my wife's life your life will be ruined. If you come here trying to interfere with her again your life will be hell. I know you committed adultery I will be calling your CO. I know you have a fianc� and multiple kids. I know all about your case of molestation. Just leave MY F*ING LIFE AND WIFE ALONE. I know you have 0 character and morals. This will be your last warning you scheming homewrecker. And a text that days this: So your sorry self have it in writing BACK OFF or else my WIFE doesn't need someone ruining her life your command will be notified if she calls you I suggest you tell her I'm done this is your only warning you conniving underhanded sneaky so called SAILOR. Should I contact him again? Or should that be enough? Like I said she claims she doesn't talk to him anymore (her choice). I believe he closed the door gently so he can resume later. Yet she refuses the NC letter should I bring it up again or deposit LB points and then bring it up?
You need to avoid giving the POS anything in writing that he can use against you!
Well she still in withdrawal. She claims she still loves him but won't see him cause I will take away the kids from her. Which I know is fogbabble. We talked an hour and she brought up the affair. She knows its wrong but she feels she never loved me and it's ok once again fogbabble when I brought up how we met and first said I love you she started to stutter. I called the hotel and the reservation is still valid. I have a friend willing to go with me to confirm. Planning on using a VAR in her car as well. She claims she is scared of me and I'm acting psycho. I tried not to cry and assure her she made the decision to ruin the marriage and I just let everyone know how. She also stated she doesn't love or care about me. I know I I ask to go she will say no and put her on notice. Her mom will be here on Tuesday and weekend so if I will sneak out and confirm his tryst I need to set my friend up for an albi. I was planning on sleeping in the same bed and she is adamant that she won't I'm so confused on what to do next. This is hard on me and her. She is experiencing physical withdrawal from seeing this guy how long will this last?
Read it so it's important to stop this meeting! What weapons I have to combat it? What should I do follow her and confront her? VAR and pray I'm wrong?! I feel so helpless. I am on the bus for recovery but she isnt cause of withdrawal. My time is short. I really love her and now that I can work this out this ugly revelation threatens to undo everything!
Read it so it's important to stop this meeting! What weapons I have to combat it? What should I do follow her and confront her? VAR and pray I'm wrong?! I feel so helpless. I am on the bus for recovery but she isnt cause of withdrawal. My time is short. I really love her and now that I can work this out this ugly revelation threatens to undo everything!
You're not helpless. You have MB and a plan ok?
Let's combat this. Are you with her now? How are you doing on your plan A?
I will be tomorrow out for the weekend cause of military field ops. If it goes PA I dont know what I will do suicide, homicide the other OM I just don't know and it scares me what I will do to the other OM. I need a plan to prevent this please help me.
What did the IG say when you talked to him and what proof did you provide him? Yes, get the VAR and get it hidden in her car.
Partner, this is a REALLY bad time to be leaving. I'm not military, so I have no idea how this works, but is there not a way to get your ops postponed to a later date (I know this is probably a stupid question). Can you call your CO and explain the sitch? Call the IG back and re-explain the sitch?
Anything?
Oh, and knock off the suicide and homicide talk. No one is worth all that. I know you're hurting terribly, but you're better than this.
I will be tomorrow out for the weekend cause of military field ops. If it goes PA I dont know what I will do suicide, homicide the other OM I just don't know and it scares me what I will do to the other OM. I need a plan to prevent this please help me.
DSC, come to us before you do anything, okay? Come here first. I am worried about you.
I'm gone now I'll be back tomorrow. I'll try to calm down the IG is a hotline and fax type deal they will contact me when they complete the investigation. I plan on sleeping in my bed and she says she won't be there. This meeting she knows I know about it I called the hotel pretending to be him and the reservations are still there. He's supposed to be flying here and I know if I was the OM I would still come cause you can't cancel a flight else you lose money. So I believe she isn't talkin to him and he will contact her as the date nears to convince her otherwise. I really want to go there to verify in person and also use the VAR. I'm so depressed over this I don't understand how a woman who has a religious background do this to someone she obviously loves and care about. This isn't fair I wish I can transfer all the pain my WS, myself, and my family feels to the OM. Probably won't do a thing cause he's a sociopathic narcissist. Anyways any points I'm missing in this plan?
VAR the car. Demand respectfully she send the NC with my approval. Confront her in the hotel where this tryst is supposed to take place. I already contacted his command and her command awaiting responses if none by Tuesday call again. I read about the withdrawal from an affair so it seems pointless to meet ENs while she is in that cold turkey state. I'll be staying in our house and sleeping in our marriage bed. Work out already dropped 35 lbs over this and improve myself personally taking salsa classes (wife is latino) going to college and spend time with our kids. Please let me know if this is a good plan or if I'm missing something. Oh wife is on antidepressants for depression as well.
So you've decided you're going with her? Good! Don't tell her until the last minute though. Forewarned is forearmed. I would do it the morning of your departure. LOL, let the POSOM spend the money and time for nothing.
Keep trying to get in touch with that GF. That will help you immensely.
Yep, you're right, trying to meet EN's when she's in this state of mind is pointless. Your job right now is to bust this crap up. Focus on that first, then we can go from there.
That's even better, IMO. Just make sure that friend is with you when the confrontation happens. You need him to keep you from doing anything stupid. And from your previous posts, that's a not so distant reality.
How do I say send it without using LBs I don't want to push her away. I showed her the letter and asked her to write and she said no. This was last week. Any other ideas I can use for her to send the letter with making demands.
You have no choice. Plan A is a carrot and stick program. You vehemently oppose the affair while still being a loving husband.
Read it so it's important to stop this meeting! What weapons I have to combat it? What should I do follow her and confront her? VAR and pray I'm wrong?! I feel so helpless. I am on the bus for recovery but she isnt cause of withdrawal. My time is short. I really love her and now that I can work this out this ugly revelation threatens to undo everything!
You're not on the bus to recovery. You are in an active affair.
I will be tomorrow out for the weekend cause of military field ops. If it goes PA I dont know what I will do suicide, homicide the other OM I just don't know and it scares me what I will do to the other OM. I need a plan to prevent this please help me.
Sir you cannot control your wife's actions. Or OM actions. You can only control how YOU react to their actions. Ask yourself if your child would benefit from your suicide or your murdering your wife's affair partner? Will your child benefit? Will your parents benefit? Will anyone benefit?
Well she still in withdrawal. She claims she still loves him but won't see him cause I will take away the kids from her. Which I know is fogbabble. We talked an hour and she brought up the affair. She knows its wrong but she feels she never loved me and it's ok once again fogbabble when I brought up how we met and first said I love you she started to stutter. I called the hotel and the reservation is still valid. I have a friend willing to go with me to confirm. Planning on using a VAR in her car as well. She claims she is scared of me and I'm acting psycho. I tried not to cry and assure her she made the decision to ruin the marriage and I just let everyone know how. She also stated she doesn't love or care about me. I know I I ask to go she will say no and put her on notice. Her mom will be here on Tuesday and weekend so if I will sneak out and confirm his tryst I need to set my friend up for an albi. I was planning on sleeping in the same bed and she is adamant that she won't I'm so confused on what to do next. This is hard on me and her. She is experiencing physical withdrawal from seeing this guy how long will this last?
As for being psycho, that is normal wayward talk. As for sleeping in the same bed you should not leave your marital bed. She is the adulteress so she can leave the bed.
If you catch them together you need to keep your cool.
King David essentially murdered a man so he could take his wife. He thought he had it all figured out. But God was witness and how did God respond? Go sent his servant Nathan to king David and Nathan said "You are the man."
If I was in your shoes and caught them I would look her in the eyes and say "You are commiting adultery. Shame on you. " And I would say it loud enough for bystanders to hear. And that is all you can do legally and morally
I'm going to wear a VAR and have a camera for evidence. My friend will be there the whole time. I am hoping that she doesnt go and has been telling the truth. I'm going to do this in case it goes to divorce to bolster my case. My friend will keep me calm. I called the hotel and reservations are still in place under the OM name. I'm thinking. Of bringing her mom with me as well. We have a language barrier cause she only speaks Spanish but I have enough to get through to her. I need to establish she is on my side. Any thoughts on that?
That's stupid anyways I'll keep you guys posted tomorrow will be a sucky day I have to be in the house with her will do my best to ignore her. However if she starts to talk about the state of the marriage should I talk or ignore her?
That's stupid anyways I'll keep you guys posted tomorrow will be a sucky day I have to be in the house with her will do my best to ignore her.
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Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Exposure makes the infidel furious
stay calm breathe
no one can stay furious forever ... being furious is exhausting ... consumes a lot of energy ... let the furious infidel fume and exhaust his/her self
YOU stay cool
You will hear:
"That's it. We are never going to stay married after what YOU did." "I am moving out now, thanks to you." "You are getting OP in trouble at home." "Now our kids will have a broken home thanks to you."
blah blah blah
You respond to all the raging comments: I am still holding out hope for our marriage.
You stay calm
You don't argue
You don't explain
You do not preach
You do not educate
~and~ you do NOT apologize for standing up for truth and marriage and keeping your family intact
YOU calmly re-state your belief that there is hope for the marriage ....
if things get out of hand ... excuse yourself and go for a walk or a drive ...
remember ... exposure makes the already foggy spouse act insane ... but it is temporary
However if she starts to talk about the state of the marriage should I talk or ignore her?
Well sent a Facebook message to the ex wife I was able to track her down. Sent one to her sister as well hopefully I get some replies!
DSC Thought you were all done with exposure. If there is anyone left get it done ASAP. You want the exposure out all at once and hopefully people calling WW.
No fault and fault D. Evidence you gather could make a difference in a fault state mostly with alimony and does have an influence with child custody.
(When folks here ask about your plan, this is the kind of thing they want you to do. This would be my suggestion to you.)
DSC, go with your friend to the hotel. Have the friend drive.
FIRST, find your WW's car. Move it to a location she won't know about, even off the hotel lot if necessary.
THEN find them. What is your plan for determining their room?
THIRD, have your friend knock on the door. Have your camera ready. Snap, snap, snap! It does not matter if they're dressed or not, having them in a hotel room together should be of help later.
THEN, have your chat with OM. Calmly explain that he's about to reamed by military justice, with his career in the shi++er. Inform your WW of the same.
DO NOT get angry, do not get physical, do not let them provoke you into those states - if they do, they win HUGE points.
If nothing more looks promising, leave. Go to your WW's car and drive it home.
Well heard from OM ex wife and it's was horrid. This guy raped his daughter gave her chalymida, he is abusive, and extremely possessive. I really want to tell my wife this but she is in a fog. Also I believe they still contact each other. She refuses to send the NC and reveal the details surrounding her EA about this guy. She only told me bits and pieces. I know that she still plans on seeing him. I wanted to follow your advice NG but I can't leave my wife with a monster like that. He knocks the woman up and gets them addicted to drugs to control them according to the ex wife and her sister. My plan is to confront and tell my wife about this then maybe just maybe she will listen. Sleeping in the marital bed and asked her to as well she refused and is down on the futon. She thinks I put a recorder in the bedroom and a gps on her car. She is still doin dirt.
Well heard from OM ex wife and it's was horrid. This guy raped his daughter gave her chalymida, he is abusive, and extremely possessive. I really want to tell my wife this but she is in a fog. Also I believe they still contact each other. She refuses to send the NC and reveal the details surrounding her EA about this guy. She only told me bits and pieces. I know that she still plans on seeing him. I wanted to follow your advice NG but I can't leave my wife with a monster like that. He knocks the woman up and gets them addicted to drugs to control them according to the ex wife and her sister. My plan is to confront and tell my wife about this then maybe just maybe she will listen. Sleeping in the marital bed and asked her to as well she refused and is down on the futon. She thinks I put a recorder in the bedroom and a gps on her car. She is still doin dirt.
DSC
Try to have the Ex wife call your W. Maybe hearing it from her will have some weight to it.
I thought about doing that but she has stated constantly that just because she won't be with him means she won't be with me. I was planning on having the OM ex wife talk to WS mother and we both tag team her with the horrifying truth.
Also has this man been around the kids? If she won't stop seeing him you may need to file for divorce and custody and Subpeanae the ex wife and sister.
Also write a No Trespass letter and have the Sheriff serve him with it. (I can provide further instructions on how to do this if needed). How old is OM daughter,?
She hasnt seen him since July 29 in west Virginia. He hasn't met my kids she is planning on seeing him this weekend in Chicago. He live is Florida and my WS and I live in Illinois. The daughter was 9 at the time of the molestation she is 16 now. My wife claims she doesn't talk to him anymore but I called the hotel and the reservations are still booked for this weekend. How do I get her to work on the marriage instead? She constantly says she wants a divorce should I ignore it?
This guy raped his daughter gave her chalymida, he is abusive, and extremely possessive...He knocks the woman up and gets them addicted to drugs to control them according to the ex wife and her sister.
Does the IG have this information, or at least these allegations?
Yes the ex wife said he is being investigated by military and civilian courts. WS claims OM won't answer her calls I think the IG and my calling his command worked. However I think WS uses other means of contacting him. I think I can call the affair officially busted and start the carrot.
Well I had my WS talk to the OM ex wife she was crying the whole time when she heard the stories. The ex Wife also wanted her children to talk to her. WS was crying and now she talking to the OM about the conversation. Honestly I think this is gonna backfire on me but I still have hopes. Thanks to all who responded to my thread. Updates coming soon!
Well I had my WS talk to the OM ex wife she was crying the whole time when she heard the stories. The ex Wife also wanted her children to talk to her.
WS was crying and now she talking to the OM about the conversation.
Honestly I think this is gonna backfire on me but I still have hopes. Thanks to all who responded to my thread. Updates coming soon!
He will probably try to spin the whole story onto angry ExW.
I can be anyone I want to be behind this screen and texting. Real life and day to day is another story. If all that was true about OM he is a dirt bag.
Reminds me of a song you might enjoy just to lighten this up a little until W is done talking with OM.
You are doing good. However don't be surprised if your wife makes excuses for OM. If she does I think you should file for divorce to protect your kids from him and ask the court to issue an order that the kids have no contact with OM
This guy raped his daughter gave her chalymida, he is abusive, and extremely possessive.
You should try to confirm this. If OM actually did this, why isn't he in jail? Is there an arrest report? Did you ask OMxW about that? Be careful not to use this information unless you can back it up. I'm not saying to disregard this; I'm saying to know whether or not the facts that are being given to you are actually facts. If they aren't, understand that OMxW may be out for blood with OM and may be lying to you. Watch for that. You may not be able to depend on her for accurate information.
Yea I agree with maritalbliss. This OM is a police officer and subject to extra investigations due to his occupation. The OM ex wife may be crazy. Personally, my ex wife tells people that I am psychotic.
This guy raped his daughter gave her chalymida, he is abusive, and extremely possessive.
You should try to confirm this. If OM actually did this, why isn't he in jail? Is there an arrest report? Did you ask OMxW about that? Be careful not to use this information unless you can back it up. I'm not saying to disregard this; I'm saying to know whether or not the facts that are being given to you are actually facts. If they aren't, understand that OMxW may be out for blood with OM and may be lying to you. Watch for that. You may not be able to depend on her for accurate information.
He did check this out for himself
9-11-12
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The OM was arrested for sex acts with a familial child march this year. He told her his ex wife convinced his eldest daughter that he molested her. I did a background check on him and found out it wasnt close as the OM says. He told my WW it was closed in April. He has 3 kids with the ex wife and one with the fianc� and is a campus police officer.
It's true hes a campus police officer. He's being investigated for it. My wife believes her but I don't think it's gonna help me at all. I have hope but I'm sure he's gonna spin it and it will backfire on me. She is going through withdrawal right now so I'm goin to meet her ENs and pray.
It's true hes a campus police officer. He's being investigated for it. My wife believes her but I don't think it's gonna help me at all. I have hope but I'm sure he's gonna spin it and it will backfire on me. She is going through withdrawal right now so I'm goin to meet her ENs and pray.
She may be a mess with all of this. You will know in a few days what her true character is with this new found info being presented to her.
She still may want out of the M. Sometimes even info like this will not snap them out of the fantasy.
Hold on tight and keep youself in check. Absolutely no LB's. Be like a broken record to WW that you still have hope for the M. Come here to vent or ask questions.
My ex wife started an affair with a violent felon. When I found out about his background (which is why I always encourage betrays spouses to conduct background checks if there are kids involved) I found this information and it involved violence towards a child.
Ww defended him (she actually already knew) and I had to drop plan A and proceed with filing for divorce and custody to protect my kids.
You may have to do the same thing. You don't want your wife to run off with the kids out of state to be with this guy to fulfill the fantasy in her head.
If she refuses to write the NC letter I would at least file for divorce and a court order that the kids can't leave the state, plus no contact between the kids and him. You don't want to take chances with minor children
If in doubt email this info to the radio show and ask Dr Harley for advice. Because he encouraged me to divorce and get custody of my kids. He believes that safety trumps the marriage
Well she left check Spy gear I put in place and she not talking to that OM anymore. She still wants a divorce however. She says she doesn't love me anymore. Kind of heartbreaking... I still have hope any help would be appreciated to regain that passion and love I lost due to my neglecting her. Any ideas? I want my wife back!
Well she left check Spy gear I put in place and she not talking to that OM anymore. She still wants a divorce however. She says she doesn't love me anymore. Kind of heartbreaking... I still have hope any help would be appreciated to regain that passion and love I lost due to my neglecting her. Any ideas? I want my wife back!
9-15-12
Quote
Have you read this? May help with where you are at right now.
Further down in the thread after exposure is performed it talks about the aftermath and the next steps. READ that part carefully. It may explain better than I could in my words.
The Aftermath
What does this part suggest you do when WW is calmer in a few days?
Well Plan A underway so far she has been annoyed by it. This is normal right? WS mom is here and she expressed interested in letting her know we should work it out. I hope it doesn't go to Plan B. I look at some of the threads anyone have experience with Plan A give me any ideas?
Well Plan A underway so far she has been annoyed by it. This is normal right? WS mom is here and she expressed interested in letting her know we should work it out. I hope it doesn't go to Plan B. I look at some of the threads anyone have experience with Plan A give me any ideas?
Well Plan A underway so far she has been annoyed by it. This is normal right? WS mom is here and she expressed interested in letting her know we should work it out. I hope it doesn't go to Plan B. I look at some of the threads anyone have experience with Plan A give me any ideas?
DSC
An excellant post concerning YOUR specific situation was made to you 9-12-12 by Schtoop. Go back and read it. He took a lot of time laying out "The Steps" for you.
Also in the exposure 101 thread did you read The Aftermath? This would be where you present the plan to your WW.
Is this your Plan? Post your plan here for others to critique.
YOU have to lead this and do the heavy pulling right now to try to get her onboard without LoveBusters. You can not force her or demand she follow. You present a plan to get your M out of the ditch and back on the road again. You Plan A with no expectations of your WW. You become a better H and person. Should WW decide to get onboard then bonus.
You present the Plan when ready (probably about now if WW is cooled down) and then go from there.
Should she decide not to follow then you will have to re-think your options. Dr. Harley suggests about 6 months of Plan A for a H but some men can go longer but it is not meant to be done forever or become a way of life (the heavy pulling). At some point WW needs to get onboard for MR or you will end up with a crippled version of the M pre-A.
Do you have a specific Plan A question? You may have overlooked Schtoop's post with all that was going on at that point in your life.
I sure did nesre, I failed on the following ENs: recreational time, affection, and conversation. Conversation: we talked quite a bit this past week. It starts with her wanting to talk about the marriage and forcing an argument. I so far avoided arguing with a cool head I tell her I have hope for the marriage and would she like some coffee. Once that's over we talk about everything, this past conversation was about pictures and memories we had over the course of the marriage. She started to cry I rubbed her shoulder, then she started talking about sex and all kinds of things. Then we moved on to our future plans. She said some hurtful things but I avoided LBs like a champ. All in all was good conversation without talking about the EA or relationship. I also admitted to her that I failed to meet her needs, she admitted that her EA was wrong and i didnt deserve to be hurt like that. However, she claims she doesnt feel guilty about it. Which is shocking! Has anyone encountered this with their WS? That statement baffles me. Is it just fogbabble? She also said she talked to her mom about the OM ex and told her everything. I believe this is a lie. I am going to give her another day then have the ex talk to her mother. Communication with her mom is hard on my part due to the fact her mother speaks Spanish only. Luckily the ex speaks Spanish! So far I am at 4 hours UA time this week it's up from 0 will try to increase it as much as she allows.
Affection: yesterday got her a card, which was the topic of some of the conversation. She loved it, but was really hesitant to admit it. I also bring her favorite coffee home every morning after I workout. Complimented her new hair cut and various other things. I also call her doing the day to ask if she is ok and tell her I love her. She hasn't said it back but I will keep saying it. I send her thoughtful love texts. Like schtoop says kind of a challenge to meet this without touching. I kiss her when I leave to work but she is sleep (I think a couple of times she wasn't). I'm planning today to go out with her and get a pedicure done together. Next week I'm throwing around the idea of going to a concert will ask her about it. Recreation: planning on going to the circus with her, her mom, and our kids. Also for just me and her we can go to a roller skating rink. I suck at it but I know she will enjoy it. Sunday plannin on going to church as a family. Next week I need to plan. Should I bring up the idea of a staycation? Our jobs are hectic right now and can't really afford a vacation. I really need to plan this carefully cause she was planning on seeing the OM in Chicago so I believe that place should be off limits.
So far no luck on getting the NC done. I have VAR in her car and GPS she hasn't been talking to him on the phone at all. Her CPU has a keylogger, nothing fishy there. She talked to the Ex wife on monday. She also talked to him for about 3 minutes about the abuse he did to his ex and children. VAR confirms this. Is it too soon to force the issue of the NC? Also she still wants a divorce and claims if she had the money she would get one cause she has "lost interest in me". That hurt, but I stayed the course and told her I still have hope for the marriage. I called the hotel he OM set up for their tryst pretending to be him and reservations are still on. Im worried if he contacts her and spin the exs story to get my WS to come. I had a plan for this and I'm scared I might have to do it. If that happens should I stay and fight for my marriage or let her go? This guy is obviously a predator who preys on emotionally weak women.
You are doin great. Definitely have the OM ex talk to your MIL. Also I would stop telling your wife you have hope for your marriage. I would instead say "I have a plan or our marriage. I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage where both of our need are met"
You are doing a good job of not engaging her in conversation about the dense use of the marriage etc etc.
As for the No Contact, I would carefully consider making an ultimatum of she either quits the affair and agrees to your conditions to stay married or you proceed with divorce. Explain that if you proceed with divorce the OM , his daughter, his ex wife and others will be summoned to testify.
Explain that you will be seeking a protection order to protect your child from her affair partner.
The time to do this? Probably after Chicago. I suspect she is just a piece of a** for the OM. She probably thinks he's her man but I doubt he feels the same. Otherwise he would be flying to see her now, not just making a booty call while on a trip in a motel.
Just continue Plan A. That will prepare you for future plan B
You say no contact has not been established? How do you know this, do you have evidence of contact?
And tell us more about this planned hookup. I went back through your thread but couldn't really piece together when and where they were planning to meet.
If there is a possibility of this rendevous taking place, then it is the time for the "stick" of plan A. You simply cannot allow it to take place.
If you stay at home taking care of the kids while she flies off to see OM, then you are telling her two things:
1) That you are a doormat, and that she can do this to you over and over again and you will just take it. All she has to do is threaten divorce to keep you in line.
2) That you don't care enough to stop her.
Find a way to keep her from going. Leave town yourself so she has no way to take care of the kids. Cancel her flight reservations? Have the whole family there to say goodbye if she tries to leave? I don't know, but she cannot go on that trip.
If she does go, then you have to make a stand. Pack her stuff, change the locks, be in plan B when she returns.
So ignore the NC and focus on ENs for now? How long should I do that for? She was planning on meeting him on the 21 of September. Since unexposed she says that isn't going to happen now. I'm going to put a VAR in her car to make sure but I'm not believing her. If she does meet him should I move on to plan B and make her leave the house? I'm do worried I know it hasnt been a PA yet. If it moves to that I don't know what to do if I will be able to forgive her. I'm thinking this is one big midlife crisis yet if it becomes PA I don't know...
Is this trip of hers still planned?
You still have the plan to go there if she does go?
You say no contact has not been established? How do you know this, do you have evidence of contact?
And tell us more about this planned hookup. I went back through your thread but couldn't really piece together when and where they were planning to meet.
If there is a possibility of this rendevous taking place, then it is the time for the "stick" of plan A. You simply cannot allow it to take place.
If you stay at home taking care of the kids while she flies off to see OM, then you are telling her two things:
1) That you are a doormat, and that she can do this to you over and over again and you will just take it. All she has to do is threaten divorce to keep you in line.
2) That you don't care enough to stop her.
Find a way to keep her from going. Leave town yourself so she has no way to take care of the kids. Cancel her flight reservations? Have the whole family there to say goodbye if she tries to leave? I don't know, but she cannot go on that trip.
If she does go, then you have to make a stand. Pack her stuff, change the locks, be in plan B when she returns.
He has a plan for confronting her with a friend at the hotel
Find a way to keep her from going. Leave town yourself so she has no way to take care of the kids. Cancel her flight reservations? Have the whole family there to say goodbye if she tries to leave? I don't know, but she cannot go on that trip.
If she does go, then you have to make a stand. Pack her stuff, change the locks, be in plan B when she returns.
It is important that husbands do not leave the kids to try to keep the wife at home. I did this for a while during my wife's affair. She did get angry that she missed her booty calls LOL. But then I started staying home and she was leaving all the time. For days at a time. In the end the Court named her absence from the home as one of three reasons I was granted temporary full custody during divorce process. (which helped me secure custody after divorce ). We can't control the actions of others. But this poster can control how involved he is with his children, etc. Certainly hold her accountable for her actions.
No-Contact is a critical piece of restoring the marriage. If my WW wouldn't have agreed to NC (and I'd independently confirmed it), I'd be in Plan B right now, and headed for Plan D.
You are doing an excellent job with your Plan A and meeting her ENs right now; keep it up. Remember that Dr Harley advises 3 - 6 months of a husband meeting wife's ENs without getting your needs met back in return.
She will tell you she hates the stuff you are doing for her, but keep doing it anyway (outside of physical touching). No woman hates getting love notes, cards, gifts, and fresh coffee from her husband.
If she does go, then you have to make a stand. Pack her stuff, change the locks, be in plan B when she returns.
I have to agree with Schtoop on this one. I know you are planning to confront at the hotel but that makes me really nervous (maybe it's just a girl thing and you guys know better, I don't know I just don't want to see DSC get jammed up. I would give her the unltimatum before she walked out the door for this "booty call" and then if she continued to do so then do as stated above.
I agree with Rocketqueen and I think confronting her at the hotel is a terrible idea.
I would confront her before the meeting and have a Plan B letter drafted and ready to send. If my WW went off to go hang out with OM, a Plan B letter would be waiting for her nailed to our apartment door and in her e-mail inbox, her parents and relatives would be notified, the lock would be changed, competent counsel would be retained, and finances would be adjusted in my favour to the extent legally permissible.
You also have a great shot at nailing her in the divorce for abandonment if this does go to Plan D. And she'll actually MISS YOU when she has to deal with living in an apartment by herself on one income whilst her OM is busy having one night stands with whomever he can pick up in a bar.
Well I know there hasnt been contact due to my spying tools put in place. She has drill in Wisconsin and we live in central Illinois her plan was to see him for 3 days in Chicago on the way to her drill. That was pre exposure and before she talked to the ex wife. I still left the spy tools in place and she claimed the triP was off. However I called the hotel to see if the reservations were cancelled and the reservations are still in place. I don't know what to think now. My mind is saying she still is but she says she isnt and knows the guy is a psycho. I still have the plan to confront at the hotel her mom is here will have her talk to the OM ex when I get home. I'm stuck like chuck on this one? Should I bring the issue up tonite or should I confront at the hotel?
Bring up the issue tonight, how? What are you going to tell her?
- Please don't go to a hotel in Chicago to get [censored] by your sex-partner? It would bother me greatly!
- If you go to a hotel in Chicago to get [censored] by your sex-partner, you will have no home to return to, and I will divorce you!
- I'm sorry, you're not going to Chicago! (Said while "accidentally" dropping a cast-iron skillet on her foot!)
The first is likely to get laughed at. The second likely to be ignored. The third has possibilities....
Look, dude, she knows she shouldn't be getting plowed by another man; she knows it hurts you; she knows it is damaging to her family. She has had weeks to cancel her little rut-fest, and has instead given you the one-finger salute.
You have played by the "rules" imposed by modern culture. Well, it's likely you're going to continue by those rules into dissolution.
I stay with my advice. Confront at the hotel, create as much disruption as you can, and leave in her car. Let her hitch-hike to Wisconsin; she's likely to meet a better class of scumbag along the way.
...her plan was to see him for 3 days in Chicago on the way to her drill.
If she's leaving tomorrow, when does the drill stat?
That's correct tomorrow that's why I'm in panic mode. Doing our convo yesterday I told her that she is a good person making bad decisions and it's not too late for us to fix the marriage and I won't use the EA as a means to control her if she decides to repair our marriage. She brought it up and I just reassured my stance on it. When I called today to talk to her at lunch, part of the EN of affection, she reiterated that I remember what she said last nite. I asked why are you planning something that will hurt me? She said no kind of mysteriously. So my imagination is in overdrive with that and this tryst she has with this psycho.
Bring up the issue tonight, how? What are you going to tell her?
- Please don't go to a hotel in Chicago to get [censored] by your sex-partner? It would bother me greatly!
- If you go to a hotel in Chicago to get [censored] by your sex-partner, you will have no home to return to, and I will divorce you!
- I'm sorry, you're not going to Chicago! (Said while "accidentally" dropping a cast-iron skillet on her foot!)
The first is likely to get laughed at. The second likely to be ignored. The third has possibilities....
Look, dude, she knows she shouldn't be getting plowed by another man; she knows it hurts you; she knows it is damaging to her family. She has had weeks to cancel her little rut-fest, and has instead given you the one-finger salute.
You have played by the "rules" imposed by modern culture. Well, it's likely you're going to continue by those rules into dissolution.
I stay with my advice. Confront at the hotel, create as much disruption as you can, and leave in her car. Let her hitch-hike to Wisconsin; she's likely to meet a better class of scumbag along the way.
...her plan was to see him for 3 days in Chicago on the way to her drill.
If she's leaving tomorrow, when does the drill stat?
And make sure you take your friend with you. He is still going with you, correct?
That's correct tomorrow that's why I'm in panic mode. Doing our convo yesterday I told her that she is a good person making bad decisions and it's not too late for us to fix the marriage and I won't use the EA as a means to control her if she decides to repair our marriage. She brought it up and I just reassured my stance on it. When I called today to talk to her at lunch, part of the EN of affection, she reiterated that I remember what she said last nite. I asked why are you planning something that will hurt me? She said no kind of mysteriously. So my imagination is in overdrive with that and this tryst she has with this psycho.
She brought up you controlling her? I think you need to not engage in her "talk". You need to say "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage where both of our needs are met" and not discuss her babble.
she admitted that her EA was wrong and i didnt deserve to be hurt like that. However, she claims she doesnt feel guilty about it. Which is shocking! Has anyone encountered this with their WS? That statement baffles me. Is it just fogbabble?
But because most affairs do not end with a choice to permanently separate from a lover, the recovery stage does not usually begin with much zeal. Instead, it begins with bitterness. If the affair dies a natural death (the spouse and lover simply drift away, or the lover ends it), the unfaithful spouse wakes up to find himself or herself still married, but married to a spouse who is very upset about everything that happened. How does one go about getting that kind of marriage restored?
It's very common for the spouse having the affair to feel unremorseful.
And it's common for the victimized spouse to feel that it wasn't his or her fault, either. So when an affair has ended, and a couple is ready to rebuild their relationship, neither wants to take responsibility. They both look at each other as having been very selfish, and they look at themselves as having gone the extra mile, with nothing to show for it. Why apologize for something that was the other person's fault? There is a sense in which an apology is not really necessary. The only thing that's necessary is for the couple to take appropriate steps to rebuild their relationship. But an apology can certainly make taking those steps much easier.
Quote
So far no luck on getting the NC done.
I called the hotel he OM set up for their tryst pretending to be him and reservations are still on. Im worried if he contacts her and spin the exs story to get my WS to come. I had a plan for this and I'm scared I might have to do it. If that happens should I stay and fight for my marriage or let her go?
Does WW have an explanation as to why she is going 3 days early or has her plan changed at all?
The best way to fight would be to use NG's suggestion.. Have your friend with you and the camera on. Do it exactly the way he says. Do not loose your cool!
If she direspects all that has gone on and wont agree to a plan by continuing the A then do you really want to leave yourself open to further A's? Or remain in a crippled M? Beome a doormat?
Came home from work and WW left a note. She ran off to Puerto Rico with our kids. Police can't help me. I don't know what to do. I think all the stress of her affair and the revelation sent her off to the deep end. I really suspect her mother took the kids to Puerto Rico and she is still here with planning on seeing that psycho. I'm so depressed, I don't understand how she could do this?! I'm plan A worked for the most part then boom she ups and leaves with our children and a note?! She called me crying saying she doing what's best for the kids. She did this out of revenge the A and taking our children from me. I don't know what to do
You need to contact the local offices of your Congressman, and your two Senators. You need to contact the FBI, and report an illegal international child abduction (let them figure out what Puerto Rico is). You need to start on this webpage, right now!
Back on 9/11, you said you were going to meet with a lawyer on 9/12. Did that meeting ever happen?
You need to see your lawyer first thing this morning and follow his advice. With the DV charge against your wife and the sexual abuse charges against the OM, there should be no problem getting a court order for the return of your children. Then you need temporary orders on visitation, child support, etc.
I'm still foggy on the details, one of your children is only your stepson, right? Not much can be done concerning his custody because he is not yours. Is the other one yours? How old are they?
Your WW has been in contact with OM and they have hatched this whole thing up. She probably has a prepaid "affair phone."
It's time to take a stand. You call the shots, not your WW.
1) If she has really bolted to PR, she bought airfare somehow. Your online credit card statements can help here.
2) I'm in agreement that she's stashed the kids with MIL, and is in Chicago, getting her skanky pipes cleaned. Get the local gendarmerie looking for MIL. She's about to discover she's an accessory to several crimes against children. Alert said law officials to WW's likely location. You're "problem" of confronting at the hotel just became a criminal issue for WW.
3) Inform her command of the information you have. Her actions are certainly in violation of the UCMJ, as well.
My wife took our kids and hid them. She said I was mentally unstable. I called the police, was told the same thing you were. They can't do anything. She has as much right to take them out of state as you do to keep them in state.
It is only temporary. She may be doing this to push your buttons. It may have been planned with the OM. Or she may be completely irrational. Her mother may have planned it. I would ban her for life when this is done. PERMANENT ban from the kids.
Start with the school. If they aren't in school call Children Services. Tell them your wife has mental health problems and ran off with the kids and they aren't in school. Waywards usually look like they have mental health problems so the authorities will think they do anyway. It helps your case.
Then call the police every 12 hours they are gone.
See an attorney today. You need to file for divorce to protect your children. When you file for divorce the court can issue an order prohibiting either party from concealing the whereabouts of minor children.
Send your friend to the hotel to check it out. See if she is there. See if OM is there. Do you think she would be willing to hand your kids off to him? If so call OM police supervisor and tell his department that your wife is concealing te whereabouts of minor children. That OM may be involved.
As for your stepson, contact his biological dad and let him know too.
Also. It is very important that everything you do is legal. You can't lose your temper and hit OM or your wife or anything like that. If you choose to do that then you are choosing jail time and restraining orders against you being around your kids.
You need to stay focused and everything. This may take a few days to a few months to resolve. As long as you follow the advice of your attorney you will prevail.
She has to show up for her drill. If she doesn't she is AWOL. then the military Police will be lookin for her. If she does show up then she will have to explain where the kids are. If they are at her moms then you go to the moms house with Police and take the kids. Either way these kids will be located soon
I didn't see the orders. I got appointment set up to see a lawyer for divorce. I still have hope for our marriage. Going to Chicago to confront her and the OM because I strongly feel she is there. I will stick to my plan. Calling the link about abducted children after I post. I have a 4 yr old boy with WW and a 9 yr old step son. The note said I'm not abandoning you I just had to leave cause if I stay in the house I leave you to believe that there is hope when there isnt. I love our boys and I feel you will take them from me so I took them first. They are the only reason I'm still alive. I want you to know the marriage is over. I talked to her on the phone and she claims she filing for divorce in PR and she will get it. I know that's a lie. She sent me a text saying I should send her mom money for our kids. That leads me to believe shes not there with them. Shes in Chicago. I'm praying I don't kill this son of a ***** when I get there. OM knows my wife is unstable. She also sent a text saying she feels like a b**** for doing this to me. She is showing remorse for her A and taking our children. I want to give her sometime but I'm going to Chicago to confirm what I already know. I will also call the parent abduction folks as well. I'm on the brink I want to save her our marriage and our kids but at the same time I'm scared
I really want to kill the OM. I never hated anyone or anything so much in my life. I won't though my values and morals are too high. It would be so easy to, god forgive me for having these thoughts
The note said I'm not abandoning you I just had to leave cause if I stay in the house I leave you to believe that there is hope when there isnt. I love our boys and I feel you will take them from me so I took them first. They are the only reason I'm still alive. I want you to know the marriage is over.
DSC. With your wife's history of depression, going off her meds, and this desperate sounding note...why won't the police issue an amber alert?
The note said I'm not abandoning you I just had to leave cause if I stay in the house I leave you to believe that there is hope when there isnt. I love our boys and I feel you will take them from me so I took them first. They are the only reason I'm still alive. I want you to know the marriage is over.
DSC. With your wife's history of depression, going off her meds, and this desperate sounding note...why won't the police issue an amber alert?
I"m not trying to scare you but I think you could build a strong case here.
Have you called the military and child services? You need to do everything I recommended. If she is in the states you need to go to Puerto Rico and get your kids NOW and forget about confronting her. Your child needs to be your priority. Not your crazy slut wife
The AMBER Alert� Program is a voluntary partnership between law-enforcement agencies, broadcasters, transportation agencies, and the wireless industry, to activate an urgent bulletin in the most serious child-abduction cases. The goal of an AMBER Alert is to instantly galvanize the entire community to assist in the search for and the safe recovery of the child.
DSC. do you know for a fact that the kids are in PR?
Calling the link about abducted children after I post.
YOU SAT ON THIS FOR THREE MOTHER-LOVING HOURS??!!!
Do you know what can happen in three hours with a deranged skank off her AD's? How does strapping them into the carseats and driving them into a lake sound?
Okay, you are as much a danger to your kids with your do-nothing hand-wringing as WW is with her fantasies of perpetual rutting with OM! Do you comprehend what I'm saying, or shall I be plainer?
Easy NG. I'm sure DSC is in crisis mode right now and doing everything he can. Let's wait and see. He has a lot that has been thrown at him here. I hope he has family available to help
They couldn't help me PR isn't overseas. I called CPS and they said they will call me back military can't help cause she is reserve. Amber alert won't work because police said she can take them cause we are married. Her mom says they are. I know for a fact WW isn't I'm calling the police to report the car stolen. Police said Illinois the wife has 51% custody and the guy has 49% custody. That's why I couldnt get an amber alert
Good Job on calling child Services. Now you need to call OM police supervisor Remember if your wife reports for duty you can go to her moms house and take the kids. The MIL has no legal rights.
Also call the step sons father if he has any parental rights and let him know why happened. Can you login to your cell phone provider and see where she is by gps? Do you have any anti theft gps on your car?
So what is your plan to get your kids back? Are you going to the hotel still? Does she need passports to get the kids to Puerto Rico? Does she have them? Did you find your MIL?
Enlist as much of your families help as you possibly can.
Passports are not needed. I'm heading to Chicago kids with MIL I talked to them got a lawyer appointment next week. I'm going to file and pray I won't have to actually go through it. I still have faith in our marriage. It takes two to get divorced right?
Passports are not needed. I'm heading to Chicago kids with MIL I talked to them got a lawyer appointment next week. I'm going to file and pray I won't have to actually go through it. I still have faith in our marriage. It takes two to get divorced right?
Oh, I am so glad you got the kids, DSC! Time for plan b.
Is it wrong to still love her? I don't have them yet will be in PR next week with police.
Are they in PR with your MIL?
It's not wrong to still love the woman you married. It is short-sighted to trust the addict she has become. You need to think of your children right now, since she is exhibiting erratic behavior.
That was easy. Is it wrong to love someone who used your children's safety to distract you to go get laid in a hotel room by a child abuser? Is it wrong to love someone who shipped your children overseas to some third-world relative, leaving you with no knowledge of their welfare?
You, sir, have ZERO self-respect if that question was asked in sincerity. Would she have to hand you her semen-soaked panties, and ask you to carefully wipe them out so she can get them re-stained before you might think you're being mistreated?
You have have been given a harsh lesson in the penalties for not loving YOURSELF enough. You should learn from it.
Oh, NG, you're such a GUY. Of COURSE he still loves the woman he married, who lived with him and loved him and bore his children. Was this not the case for you?
You're extrapolating to justify his sense of outrage, and he SHOULD be outraged.
But at the end of the day, any betrayed spouse remembers the love for their wayward. It is the bottom brick on the rebuilding of their marital foundation.
It is right for him to still love the woman he married. For better or for worse.
And MB, you remain a sweet GAL.....But DSC is not, or at least shouldn't be. Hearts and flowers have their place, but protecting the family (ie the children) is MAN'S work (send all notes of protest to WhoCares@NotMe.com). Having little Miss Itchy-Crotch endanger the children's safety and welfare, using them as pawns to be sacrificed to advance her game, should cut all bargains.
Opinions - we all have them. He asked the question; I answered it from my "guy" perspective, as did you did from your "gal" viewpoint.
Like I said, there must be a threshold of WW behavior beyond which no warm sentiment can carry forward. It would be my judgment that she trampled that sucker.
But let's spin this around, okay? Suppose Logan's, or WHIP's, WH had shipped their babies off to foreign parts unknown to go pound his latest skanky piece, in peace. I think we'd have a REAL long wait before anyone here told the BW, "Oh try to keep dear to your heart the sweet things he used to do."
But let's spin this around, okay? Suppose Logan's, or WHIP's, WH had shipped their babies off to foreign parts unknown to go pound his latest skanky piece, in peace. I think we'd have a REAL long wait before anyone here told the BW, "Oh try to keep dear to your heart the sweet things he used to do."
It wouldn't matter, NG. You know that. There is sometimes no understanding why the heart goes where it goes. Regardless of the situation. The betrayed spouse is STILL going to remember the love of their now-wayward spouse.
Having little Miss Itchy-Crotch endanger the children's safety and welfare, using them as pawns to be sacrificed to advance her game, should cut all bargains.
Opinions - we all have them. He asked the question; I answered it from my "guy" perspective, as did you did from your "gal" viewpoint.
Like I said, there must be a threshold of WW behavior beyond which no warm sentiment can carry forward. It would be my judgment that she trampled that sucker.
She did trample DSC. My soft gloves came off when my WW did this with DD. Used her to distract me.
DSC get your plans ready for Plan B. This was planned out and executed quite well by Mrs. DSC.
She is a perfect example as to how A's are like addiction. Like she is in the best postition to decide whats best for the children. Ripping them out of school, their everyday lives and shipping them off to PR. Fine thinking there. Oh ya and possibly continuing with the A above all else.......
Well, MB, you and will have to differ in our views about the ability of the brain and will to override the misguided leanings of a heart harking back to what WAS (if indeed it ever was) over what most certainly IS.
It may be a gender-specific trait as to the ability, or the appreciation of the ability, I don't know. But for this GUY, put in DSC's shoes, any "warm and fuzzies" for WW would be dead, flushed, crushed, minced, spindled-bent-folded-and-mutilated, and buried.
It would be well if he could generate that skill to assist him over the next few weeks.
Well confronted her at the hotel. OM wasn't there my friend and I asked for the hotel room number. I played the role of the OM to get the room number. Desk clerk got concerned and called the room so I can talk to her. She didn't answer but I saw the numbers he dialed. Thus, got the room number went to the room knocked as we hid she looked through the peep hole. Didn't answer then she called me. I asked her where are the children and she didnt answer and claimed she was in Wisconsin. Btw took pics of the car and hotel for evidence before this. She asked me to promise her I was at home lol. I said your one to be asking about promises. Then I guess the desk clerk called and gave her a description of me. So I called her out on her lie. Told her I was towing the car she came out to get it and I boxed her in. Got out videotaped the whole thing. She would t talk to me she called the police lol. They came I explained the situation and they asked my friend and me to leave. Which we did she exclaimed the OM will be there sunday. I wish he was there! Anyways WW dad who is a cheater and hasnt been in her life for 21 years calls and threatens me lol. I told him your not a father and gave him the ex wife number and told him talk to her if he loves his daughter lol. I got good evidence seeing lawyer next week. As for my kids I'll go to court and file charges against her. I love her all the same but she is endangering the welfare of our kids and herself for an A with a psycho! MB appreciate your understanding yours to NG your both right
It's amazing when you cold bust the WW. She had a moment of clarity and acted like the woman I fell in love with. Affairs are addictions! She was starting to apologize too that behavior was unexpected. I feel good little worried if the OM will come to my house she still has keys if so I will call the police. I'm not scared him scared of what I might do to him
It's amazing when you cold bust the WW. She had a moment of clarity and acted like the woman I fell in love with. Affairs are addictions! She was starting to apologize too that behavior was unexpected. I feel good little worried if the OM will come to my house she still has keys if so I will call the police. I'm not scared him scared of what I might do to him
It's amazing when you cold bust the WW. She had a moment of clarity and acted like the woman I fell in love with. Affairs are addictions! She was starting to apologize too that behavior was unexpected. I feel good little worried if the OM will come to my house she still has keys if so I will call the police. I'm not scared him scared of what I might do to him
You might want to add something to the inside of the door for your safety. A chain or something so uninvited can not just walk in on you or the kids when you are sleeping.
So, you let her know you knew about her getaway to chicago, and sge realized you were going to disrupt it...so she out maneuvered you by extorting you wife your childrens's well-being.
So you let her know you were going to tow her car and she called the cops on you, and got you run off!
So, you let her know you knew about her getaway to chicago, and sge realized you were going to disrupt it...so she out maneuvered you by extorting you wife your childrens's well-being.
So you let her know you were going to tow her car and she called the cops on you, and got you run off!
Getting the car towed serves 0 purpose. I don't have the keys. I told her that to get her outside to confront her. She has a court date on oct 31. Guess who's the star witness! Should I put her in jail or help her out? She called today and I ignored it as I will all her calls.
Getting the car towed serves 0 purpose. I don't have the keys. I told her that to get her outside to confront her. She has a court date on oct 31. Guess who's the star witness! Should I put her in jail or help her out? She called today and I ignored it as I will all her calls.
On 16 September I gave you the plan to drive off in her car. In all your posts you never once alluded to not having a copy of her key, or had the initiative to get a copy made. (Go ahead, tell me she has only the one copy, I dare you. In that highly unlikely case the easy fix would have been to LOSE her keys Thursday.) Us, you prefer to keep in the dark. To WW, you blab every tactic and move you are considering.
I'm done. Replace NG with WW as an adviser from here forward. You seem comfortable in that mode, anyway.
Sorry I you feel I ignored your advice NG but to lose the keys was a good idea. I haven't been thinking straight since this happened. Locks will be changed Monday. I will not talk to her again. If you have any other advice I will gladly listen.
Here's my plan B: 1. She has zero access to marital funds 2. Locks changed 3. Tuesday going to a lawyer to get my kids back 4. Monday taking her off the lease 5. Getting a restraining order because of her charge 6. I'm not letting her get any of her clothing or items from the house 7. Sent her PBL. Will use my dad as an IM 8. Will be filing for divorce this week. Getting money together to do so Any input or critique will be welcomed thanks everyone.
Change cell phone number, house number, email and find a neutral IM. Way wards don't like intermediarys, especially ones that are family members. Trust me, I know
Also, I would pack up her things and take them to a friend's house or something. Write your plan b letter that includes the I'm's info and where her crap is at. Post it here for us to see before you send it. Ok?
It is with the heaviest of hearts that I write you this letter. I am saddened by what has become of us, our friendship, our marriage. This letter is written to you as a necessity. Allow me to explain.
I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.
I realize that I have not been a perfect husband to you. I see now that both my attitude and financial irresponsibility drove a wedge into our marriage. I apologize to you. You must know that I never intended to hurt you or push you away from me.�
The pain that your relationship with ^^^^^ and the relationships that you have had during our marriage has been unimaginable. Continued contact with you has the potential of destroying my love for you and I don't want that to happen.�
It is because of this that I must insist that we no longer contact each other, until you are no longer involved with ^^^^^ or anyone else. I ask that you respect my decision. In the event of an emergency, or any necessary financial matters, please contact your mom or sister, and she will contact me. Once you have ended your relationship with ^^^^^ or anyone else completely, please contact me, and I will be willing to discuss restoring our friendship and marriage.
I am committed to our marriage. I believe that we can build a marriage that is stronger and more beautiful than we have experienced. Beginning today, I walk forward in life, and I want you to walk with me. I love you with all of my heart.�I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. With God's help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.�
Your loving husband, XXX
P.S. For reconciliation to happen I would need the following from you before making a commitment to reconcile:
> A full confession� > A sincere, remorseful apology� > Why you think this happened (name the problem on both sides --you've got to name it to claim it)� > A detailed recovery plan (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it)� > Proof you're working a 12-step program for addiction I used a sample from the thread
I succeded in throwing my X in jail for withhholding my property, while we were still married. The charge was theft by taking. I didn't come up with that, the court did when I went begging about how I could get my clothes. So be cautious, and put her personal belongings like clothing, toiletries, anything that could not reasonably be shared by you as marital property, with someone else from whom she can fetch it.
Or put it in a storage locker, one month paid, key provided.
Fwiw, my ex tried to have me arrested for burglary when I finally did get my stuff, but the police told him, "you can't steal your own stuff." Just FYI. Get her stuff out. Marital property can stay for later court decisions.
The letter is great. A fww changes you need to make is she gas to end contact with Cesar "and commit to a marital recovery plan" . Have her contact your I'M when she is ready, not you and include their info in the letter. Also as I said and cwmi said, pack up her stuff and put it somewhere and include its location in the letter. You don't want to get jammed up over her perfume and skinny pants!
When do you expect to go to PR for the children? You may want to be careful with the law concerning step child.
Does the lawyer see any problems? Will you have time before going into Plan B?
Do you expect your WW to come back to the house after this at all? I know she probably wants her belongings. Do you see her splitting and going off with POS? Get her personal items into storage somewhere and let her know with the letter.
Change all your contact info asap.
Do you believe she had a reserve drill or was that part of the plan to confuse you?
Good letter. I agree with the changes suggested by RQ. Your list of requirements can stay with your IM until WW brings up the subject. Not you.
Is it wrong to still love her? I don't have them yet will be in PR next week with police.
My iPhone crashed a couple days ago. You have been on my thoughts and prayers. It is not wrong to love, meaning care for. It is unhealthy to live someone that abuses you. I know; my ex wife came home From screwing the OM and told me how much she enjoyed it. I was devastated. I understand your pain.
I joined AlAnon and they taught me that my self worth is not what she determines it to be. Not is yours. Sometimes people commit evil acts. Your wife is doing such evil. A man that gets drunk and drives and kills 3 people may have family that loves him. But his actions show he is a danger and irresponsible and the judge will hold him responsible. Then he may not drink again. Tough love. Sometimes mothers have to lock their addict children out of the house, knowing they will resort to prostitution to buy drugs. It's real tough love. And that is the love you need to have now sir. Tough love.
Getting the car towed serves 0 purpose. I don't have the keys. I told her that to get her outside to confront her. She has a court date on oct 31. Guess who's the star witness! Should I put her in jail or help her out? She called today and I ignored it as I will all her calls.
Did you post this domestic violence on your thread? I was unaware of a domestic violence arrest. If I knew that I would have encouraged you not to visit the hotel and confront her. To answer your question you DO NOT LIE for her. You allow people to face the natural consequences of their actions.
Change cell phone number, house number, email and find a neutral IM. Way wards don't like intermediarys, especially ones that are family members. Trust me, I know
Also, I would pack up her things and take them to a friend's house or something. Write your plan b letter that includes the I'm's info and where her crap is at. Post it here for us to see before you send it. Ok?
I encourage you to speak to an attorney prior to removing any of your wife's personal belongings. You don't even have the right to keep her out of the marital home without a court order.
Why would you ask your wife to contact her mom or sister? Her mother helped kidnapp your kids. Her father called and threatened you? I would cut her whole family out.
Step son biological father hasn't been in his son's life. Don't know if he's dead or alive. Changed IM to my father. Getting lease changed tomorrow dropping her from it.
Change cell phone number, house number, email and find a neutral IM. Way wards don't like intermediarys, especially ones that are family members. Trust me, I know
Also, I would pack up her things and take them to a friend's house or something. Write your plan b letter that includes the IM's info and where her crap is at. Post it here for us to see before you send it. Ok?
I encourage you to speak to an attorney prior to removing any of your wife's personal belongings. You don't even have the right to keep her out of the marital home without a court order.
HDW, this is standard procedure when going into Plan B.
Here is a summary of what is commonly issued in divorce. Referred to as a Mutual Restraining Order: it also has general information about divorce process. However i must stress to you that this is war. Divorce is war and your attorney is your best friend. You need to follow the law. The court will look to see who is te most rational adult for the welfare of the child. In my case my wife lived with me through divorce! It drove me crazy! But I couldn't throw her out legally.
You need to strategize all decisions with your attorney prior to acting. (copied from legal website below) A Divorce is one of the legal methods by which you can terminate your marriage. A Divorce begins with one of the spouses filing a Complaint for Divorce. A Complaint is a legal document that sets forth your grounds for divorce (the legal reason that entitles you to a divorce) and the relief requested from the Court (what you want the Court to do for you).
A Motion for Temporary Orders is usually filed with the initial filings. This document asks the Court to determine, for the time being, and until the divorce is final, certain things such as Custody and Visitation of the children (now called the Allocation of Parental Rights and Responsibilities AND Parenting Time), Child Support and Spousal Support, who is allowed to live in the family residence, who should make payment of family debts, who is allowed to use which car, and other matters. There will usually be a Court appearance scheduled for hearing on this Motion about 3 to 4 weeks after filing, depending on the first available time with the Magistrate of record.
Along with a Complaint, the initial filings sometimes include an Affidavit for a Restraining Order when there are third parties to be restrained. This Affidavit is a sworn statement giving the reasons you are asking the Court to restrain (forbid) certain actions by your spouse or third party, actions such as harassing you, disposing of property, obtaining new debts, returning to the home, etc. Even without the Affidavit, there is always a Mutual Restraining Order signed by the Judge forbidding those certain bad actions by the parties transferring/removing/dissipating possessions, bad conduct, incurring additional credit, changing any insurances, and removing the minor child(ren) from the jurisdiction) in every case. The Restraining Order governs both parties. If such a Restraining Order is disobeyed, the violator can be jailed and/or fined by the Court. Also, banks, pension plans, or others who hold property of the marriage (third parties) can be stopped from transferring property by a Restraining Order.
If you are the person filing for the divorce first, you are called the Plaintiff, and the other spouse is called the Defendant. If your spouse filed first, he/she is the Plaintiff and you are the Defendant. The Defendant will be served with the divorce papers by certified mail or personally, whichever the Plaintiff chooses. If you are the Plaintiff, do not, under any circumstances, sign for certified mail addressed to your spouse.
The next step after the initial filing is the Temporary Hearing on the Motion for Temporary Orders. There may be two Motions filed, one by you and the other by your spouse, which are heard by a Magistrate at the same time. Remember that you have hired the Attorney to speak for you, so speak to the Magistrate in the hearing room only when asked a question. Again, it is imperative that you hold your anger in check at the hearing. Only the Attorneys and the parties may be present in the hearing room, but you may, if you wish, bring support persons with you but they must stay in the waiting room.
This is what I and others have followed. Any one else want to chime in about a BH going into Plan B? Should they not be following what the rest of us have?
Seeing an attorney on thursday. I also changed locks and will be packing up her stuff. Tomorrow I go before the judge to get an order of protection against her. It's a temporary order that last 30 days. It will also grant me custody of the children and rights to all marital property. Wish me luck guys plan b is kind of hard emotionally. It sucks cause I know she will be in danger and in pain but tough love will work out.
For men, going into Plan B is different. Men have much longer stamina for staying in Plan A with a wayward wife; their health isn't at the same risk as that of a woman.
Dr. Harley often recommends that a man stay in Plan A for as long as he can stand it - to pursue his wayward wife, using both the carrot and the stick. However, if he can tell she is losing a lot of love units in his love bank, then a betrayed husband is encouraged to go into Plan B, to protect his love toward his wayward wife.
If a betrayed husband goes into Plan B too soon, it is often interpreted by the WS as lack of care.
I have heard Dr. H. discuss this on his radio show, but I don't have the info for those particular clips.
For men, going into Plan B is different. Men have much longer stamina for staying in Plan A with a wayward wife; their health isn't at the same risk as that of a woman.
Dr. Harley often recommends that a man stay in Plan A for as long as he can stand it - to pursue his wayward wife, using both the carrot and the stick. However, if he can tell she is losing a lot of love units in his love bank, then a betrayed husband is encouraged to go into Plan B, to protect his love toward his wayward wife.
If a betrayed husband goes into Plan B too soon, it is often interpreted by the WS as lack of care.
I have heard Dr. H. discuss this on his radio show, but I don't have the info for those particular clips.
This man needs to enter plan B and protect his kids. His wife kidnapped them and sent them to Puerto Rico. He needs to exercise all legal options.
For men, going into Plan B is different. Men have much longer stamina for staying in Plan A with a wayward wife; their health isn't at the same risk as that of a woman.
Dr. Harley often recommends that a man stay in Plan A for as long as he can stand it - to pursue his wayward wife, using both the carrot and the stick. However, if he can tell she is losing a lot of love units in his love bank, then a betrayed husband is encouraged to go into Plan B, to protect his love toward his wayward wife.
If a betrayed husband goes into Plan B too soon, it is often interpreted by the WS as lack of care.
I have heard Dr. H. discuss this on his radio show, but I don't have the info for those particular clips.
This man needs to enter plan B and protect his kids. His wife kidnapped them and sent them to Puerto Rico. He needs to exercise all legal options.
Child safety always trumps marital recovery and the POJA
For men, going into Plan B is different. Men have much longer stamina for staying in Plan A with a wayward wife; their health isn't at the same risk as that of a woman.
Dr. Harley often recommends that a man stay in Plan A for as long as he can stand it - to pursue his wayward wife, using both the carrot and the stick. However, if he can tell she is losing a lot of love units in his love bank, then a betrayed husband is encouraged to go into Plan B, to protect his love toward his wayward wife.
If a betrayed husband goes into Plan B too soon, it is often interpreted by the WS as lack of care.
I have heard Dr. H. discuss this on his radio show, but I don't have the info for those particular clips.
This I know, that men can normally handle plan A longer then women. Wasn't sure if there were any other differences. I agree that DSC needs to go to Plan B. That stunt she pulled with kids was too much!
She didn't have drill she with the OM. My problem escalated to PA from EA. Her drill is next weekend. That was her cover. She doesn't care about the kids just being with that sociopath. I hope I can resolve this. I want my children back and eventually my wife.
DSC, I'm sorry you are going through this but you are doing a good job. Takes things one at a time. Make a list and cross things off as you go. It helped me greatly to focus on what I had to do and think less about what my WS was doing.
Tomorrow I can hopefully get an order of protection against her. That should allow me to get temporary custody of the kids and keep her away from the marital home for 21 days. During that time I can get a divorce done and also get her convicted of the domestic battery charge. Then I can carry out plan B correctly and pray she wakes up from her fantasy world with the OM dirtbag and realize what she is losing. Pray for me everyone and thank you.
I'm feeling so depressed. MIL and SIL blocked me on facebook. I haven't heard from my kids in almost a week. They won't answer my calls or answer my texts. I did nothing to deserve this. WW told them lies motivated by her addiction to OM. I think they hid the kids from me like I'm some monster. I'm so low I know what to do and I'm doing but the process is slow.
I'm feeling so depressed. MIL and SIL blocked me on facebook. I haven't heard from my kids in almost a week. They won't answer my calls or answer my texts. I did nothing to deserve this. WW told them lies motivated by her addiction to OM. I think they hid the kids from me like I'm some monster. I'm so low I know what to do and I'm doing but the process is slow.
As soon as you file for divorce the Court will likely issue an Order prohibiting parents from concealing the whereabouts of minor children.
As for your case, you do have an attorney. Correct?
You don't have time to mope, you need immediate action! Call attorney, tell them you can't wait for appt, that the children have been abducted and it's an emergency, you need their counsel NOW! You need to work on getting the kids back immediately! File for D asap, get those protective orders in place. Who gives a fig about MIL & SIL! They are enemies now, they are aiding and abetting your crazy WW!
Went to court got the order of protection done. She has to be away from me and the marital home for 21 days and 300 feet away from me. They granted me sole occupancy as well. However, I cry as I type this, the judge granted me temporary full custody of our 4 year old but couldnt for my step son. So my WW actions will split up our kids. CPS called me back and I gave them the contact information for SIL and MIL the hotel the WW is at and the OM name and his charges. It hurts me to do this to her but all in all the WW brought these consequences upon herself. I'll pray she realizes this and gives up the A for the greater good of our family. I agree the MIL is an enabler and at this point I believe she just wants custody of our kids by any means necessary. IG called as well they told me to submit the evidence of the A and all emails and texts I have concerning it between her and me. Unfortnately the VAR was done after she claims to stop talking to him and it doesn't have any hard hitting evidence on it. The hotel reservations and emails should be enough that's what the IG SAID
DSC, I'm glad that you were able to get that taken care of. I think all of these consequences that your WW will deal with will help her realize how far she has let things go on. It will terrify her and make her hit rock bottom. I really do. It is tough love on your part. This is the "stick" of plan A.
How soon until you can get the kids? Will you be able to bring both home?
Well she has 48 hours to produce our son and hopefully she uses her common since and give me both kids so they aren't split up. I hope your right RQ I would like to save the marriage despite what she has done. However, I am not sure I will be able to trust her again. She isn't answering phone calls from her friends. I am not going to lie I am worried about her but at the same time she did it to herself.
Trust will have to be earned, forgiveness will have to be earned. I am 6 months into our bumpy recovery and I STILL haven't forgiven nor do I trust. But it is a process. She has to came face to face with the damage she has caused before she will see it and come to terms with it. And I'm not gonna lie, there are some waywards who don't. They continue to see the fantasy.
Is that a court ordered 48 hours that the judge imposed?
Went to court got the order of protection done. She has to be away from me and the marital home for 21 days and 300 feet away from me. They granted me sole occupancy as well. However, I cry as I type this, the judge granted me temporary full custody of our 4 year old but couldnt for my step son. So my WW actions will split up our kids. CPS called me back and I gave them the contact information for SIL and MIL the hotel the WW is at and the OM name and his charges. It hurts me to do this to her but all in all the WW brought these consequences upon herself. I'll pray she realizes this and gives up the A for the greater good of our family. I agree the MIL is an enabler and at this point I believe she just wants custody of our kids by any means necessary. IG called as well they told me to submit the evidence of the A and all emails and texts I have concerning it between her and me. Unfortnately the VAR was done after she claims to stop talking to him and it doesn't have any hard hitting evidence on it. The hotel reservations and emails should be enough that's what the IG SAID
That is good. Make sure you continue to call the Children Services every day the stepson is not in school. As for custody. Take your stamped Court Order to puerto Rico TOMORROW and get your son from MIL. Call the police before you arrive at her house and ask them to assist you. Tell them you have a signed Court Order
WHY ARE YOU HERE?? This is not a silly question. You are about to learn a whole new meaning of the term,"rebuttable presumption," and why it applies exclusively to you in Family Court.
Trust me, you're in for the fight of your life. If you're not prepared, you can bet the other side will rebut you right out of fatherhood and into poverty. Your children, with your current and future finances, will be out of your life forevermore.
Your goal therefore, demands a strong offense. This requires dedication, support, "pro-active" planning, and lots of research. In other words, PREPARATION IS EVERYTHING!!
The following list is neither conclusive nor is it exhaustive. For that matter, not all of it will apply to you. Nevertheless, its intent is to get you to think, ask hard questions, and above all, to be prepared. Copy it. Print it. NEVER let your STBX see it.
What ever you do, NEVER LEAVE YOUR MARITAL RESIDENCE unless ordered by the court!! If you do, your STBX is free to do unto you as you are about to do unto her. It'll be a mistake that'll cost you dearly.
If you're not THOROUGHLY prepared, the other side will find your weakness and work you over. Their primary purpose is to "soften you up" and get you to give up custody WILLINGLY!! "THEY HAVE METHODS!!" They'll even recruit your attorney and get you to sign documents you'll later regret. If you're not prepared, and if you fail to choose your attorney wisely, there'll be nothing left of you when they're done.
If your STBX files first, she's already plotted her next 10 moves against you. This is not where you want to be. If she files first, you can expect:
1) a restraining order that evicts you from your house and prevents you from contacting your kids.
2) to pay temporary child support, temporary alimony, community debt, and/or bills accumulated by your STBX during these proceedings. This can be 1 to 3 years. You'll be bankrupt well before trial.
3) to pay court costs and other fees, in addition to expenses mentioned above: GAL; Custody/Child Evaluator; Psychological evaluation; Your STBX's attorney fees.
EXPECT HER TO LIE. EXPECT THEM TO BELIEVE HER. EXPECT NO FAIRNESS. EXPECT TO NEED MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR CASE.
Their goal is to "bleed you dry" and beat you into submission. You'll never see the last of their dirty tricks. It behooves you therefore to be very prepared very early.
NEVER BE IN A POSITION WHERE YOU HAVE TO PLAY "CATCH-UP."
If you've got "skeletons" in your closet, prepare accordingly, ahead of time. Do likewise with your STBX's skeletons. Gather all incriminating info while you can. Never give her the opportunity to cover her tracks.
For starters, develop an EARLY GAME PLAN to win custody. Execute your play according to YOUR timetable. Pick your shots. Make them count. Timing is everything. Keep the other side off balance. This is very important.
Lay out a trap-line for your STBX. Perpetually work on setting her up for the fall. You know her weakness. Bait her!! Give her every opportunity to make a mistake. Spring your trap in front of the camera and in front of witnesses. Document everything.
Everything must be documented in a WELL-WORDED journal. What you write must be factual and correct. At trial, your journal will be a valuable source of events, dates, and patterns of behavior. Your journal should also contain surprises to keep the other side off balance. Most importantly, your journal will discredit fabricated testimony and lies you can expect from the other side.
Along with your journal, gather supporting evidence with photos and videos. Put a trace program on the computer and a recorder on the phone. Don't be afraid to record phone calls. Make it your business to know where your STBX goes in cyber-space. Above all get witnesses, especially professionals involved with your STBX & kids. You may want to hire a PI. A visit to your local spy shop will be very worth while. Think of it as an investment.
Your journal, together with supporting evidence, will help you. More correctly, they will help your attorney. Remember, your attorney is only as effective as the information you give him. If he gets little from you, you can expect little in return.
Type and/or otherwise arrange journal notes well in advance of trial. Reserve plenty of time to review your journal with your attorney. You must bond with your attorney, and he must bond with you. Both of you must be "reading from the same page" between now and trial. Be sure save your original journal draft. You may need it.
YOUR JOURNAL IS THE TEMPLATE OF YOUR CASE!! Guard it carefully. It contains secrets the other side would love to have. Above all, BEWARE of so-called "neutral third parties," like the GAL or Custody Evaluator. These thugs are anything but neutral. They will specifically target their report and/or testimony to discredit everything you've written. To guard against subpoena, address each page to your attorney. Remember, the primary purpose of your journal is to rebut and/or otherwise discredit the lies and fabricated testimony that'll come from the other side. THIS IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE!!
Never sign anything the custody evaluator asks you to sign - even if it's a scrap of paper that states you agree to XYZ conditions. This is a trap. Anything you sign becomes a bona-fide legal document that will be used against you in court.
PLOTTING DATA (patterns of behavior) from your journal:
It's very important to have supporting evidence to back up your documentation. Photos and witnesses are ideal. However, you can't always count on people, nor can you count on having a camera when you need one. Therefore, you must build your case with what you have. YOUR JOURNAL!!
If done properly and consistantly, your journal becomes the heart and soul of your case. It is filled with important data. This data shows your STBX's pattern of behavior over time. In other words, you can scientifically predict how your STBX will behave based upon the data you've collected. Remember, when plotting scientific data of any nature, you can expect surprises. Remember, surprises are what keeps the other side off balance.
Data from your journal can be plotted on a graph, a pie chart, or bar chart. For comparison, it's a good idea to use all of the above. You'll need Excel software.
Plotted data are much easier to intrepret, both for the judge and your attorney. Plotted data show large blocks of evidence at a glance; ie, parenting history/behavior. This helps rebut the built-in bias of the system, and scientifically supports your bid for custody.
Keep in mind, a single "judgement error" will NEVER get the judge's attention. However, a "PATTERN" of well-documented judgement errors, supported by evidence, will make a difference.
Remember, neither the judge nor your attorney want to sift through endless streams of relatively "meaningless" journal data. Consider your audience. It's up to you to make things as easy as possible for them both.
SET YOURSELF UP TO WIN!! Pay attention to detail. Follow through on leads. Don't get side-tracked!! Use only what works for you.
BECOME A "CHILD ADVOCATE."
1) Get involved with a network of parent educators.
2) Make time for play dates and/or parties. Invite parent-chaperones who will observe you as a Superdad in fine form. Make sure mothers are invited. Ideally, they should be solidly married, above reproach, and will not be disparaged for having an affair with you.
These are great sources for collateral witnesses.
2) Enroll yourself and/or your kids in classes/counseling/treatment as necessary: Parenting classes; Co-parenting classes; Anger managment; Couseling for kids caught-in-the-middle; enroll in a Children's First program; Alcohol/drug treatment. Read contemporary books and literature on the above subject matter. Take the initiative. Become informed. Do whatever it takes. Don't wait 'til it's too late.
3) The most important witnesses are court-appointed professionals, so-called "neutral third parties." They include; the home study evaluator, the forensic evaluator, the custody evaluator, the psychologist, the play therapist, and the GAL. Tread lightly with these people. They are anything but neutral. These thugs are "GOD" in determining custody decisions. Keep in mind, the judge is gonna rule whatever they recommend. They live by one fundamental principle, "Dads be damned."
Whatever you do, NEVER agree to any form of binding mediation. You'll be giving up all your rights to further litigation. You'd just as well sell your soul to the Devil.
From the beginning, you must "attempt" get these witnesses on your side. They are the "tie-breaker." Truth be known, it's their job to insure the race isn't even close, much less a "tie." Nevertheless, do your best. Be sure to document everything.
a) It's their job to not like you. b) It's their job to fabricate lies about you. c) It's their job to soften you up and trick you into giving up custody before trial.
Remember "rebuttable presumption?" Some state's statutes declare both fathers and mothers have an equal right to parent their children. In this phase, that right is summarily taken from you. In other words, the game is rigged. It should come as no surprise, gender discrimination is rife within the Judicial Branch of Government.
With that in mind, you might consider hiring a private custody evaluator. The idea is to bring conflicting opinion/testimony with you to court. This is one sure way to minimize a GAL's highly biased testimony/report.
Additionally, make sure to get documentation/history of any violence, both physical and/or verbal/psychological. Is your STBX any threat to herself, to you, to your kids, or to anyone else? Evidence of this nature is critical to rebut an already biased GAL report/testimony.
I've heard of ONE (1) favorable recommend from a GAL. This dad was a school teacher. He was thoroughly professional and very well connected. Additionally he graduated with "honors" from parenting classes and had become a state-certified foster parent. In other words, he had credentials the rest of us don't have or can't get. The GAL liked this dad because he was "one of them."
In family court, the average "Joe Six-Pack" has a 90% chance of losing. That's why your journal and witness list are of the utmost importance.
Here's another example. Risky? Hell yes! But the results are what counts.
Both Parties agreed, together with the judge, to allow the final custody decision to be handled by a custody evaluator. Dad's attorney was familiar with this evaluator and requested that she hear testimony. Stbx's attorney also agreed with the request.
The evaluator met with both attorneys prior to taking testimony. She strongly advised that the Parties settle ahead of time. (Note: This is why you never agree to binding mediation.)
At this critical moment, Dad's attorney revealed the existence of a detailed journal together with a substantial body of evidence. He suggested the Parties walk away with dignity and share custodybetween them. As a result, Dad's STBX agreed to sharing both physical and legal custody without the evaluator deciding for them.
Dad's guess is that his attorney had spooked his STBX in prior courtroom encounters. She gave up without a fight, certainly not because she wanted to. Of that, Dad is sure.
The lesson here is that Dad's attorney had taken the initiative to thoroughly study the journal well in advance. As a result, Dad's attorney was convinced that the journal would tip the balance in an occasion such as this.
Thus: a detailed journal + a good attorney + strategy = Victory
There was another dad that "bought" his STBX out. He got the house, the kids, and everything for $70K. Still another dad got out of paying alimony for a mere $11K. I realize this sounds like a lot all at once. But over time, it's a bargain. Remember, let your attorney handle the negotiating process.
MOVING ON: Your WITNESS LIST must be exhaustive. Other than court-appointed professionals, people that see you with your children and/or otherwise know you personally are going to be your best witnesses. Remember, not everyone will support you, nor will they be available when you need them.
Potential witnesses include: Extended family; neighbors; day care, school professionals; parent volunteers; medical professionals; adult activity leaders.
"Cardinal Rule" No 1....... KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!! LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS!!
This is war. You must approach this as a top-secret military operation.
1) Thou shalt not raise any suspicions. DO NOT TELEGRAPH YOUR INTENTIONS. a) Thou shalt not tell anyone what you're up to, ESPECIALLY YOUR STBX. b) Thou shalt not share information with anyone about anything. c) Thou shalt take care of business like nothing's going on.
2) Thou shalt not get side-tracked. This is "crunch time." Manage your time wisely.
3) Thou shalt maintain thy Poker Face. Get prepared for the long hall.
"Cardinal Rule" No 2....... NEVER LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!! WATCH YOUR BACK!!
Have minimal contact with your STBX. NEVER be in a position where she can allege domestic violence of any kind. It's best not to be alone with her. Always have a witness with you.
1) Be very careful when you are alone with your STBX. a) She can file false domestic violence charges "at will," and have you thrown in jail. b) She can get a restraining order "at will," and have you kicked out of your house.
2) "Thou shalt ALWAYS bite the bullet." At the same, "Thou shalt ALWAYS be bulding thy case." a) Thou shalt not argue. Thou shalt not fight. Thou shalt not provoke thy STBX. b) Thou shalt go the extra mile to be civil. Thou shalt be Mr Nice Guy.
3) Never engage in any form of business with your ex, no matter how much the deal "appears" to be in your favor. It will be a trap you'll regret 'til your dying day. Remember, there ain't no free lunch. You can always expect a pay-back down the road.
"Cardinal Rule" No 3....... BE THE BEST DAD YOU CAN BE!! DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!!
1) Get involved with your kids as much as possible. a) Assume the role of primary caretaker well in advance. b) This'll set you up for primary, if not 50/50 shared primary custody. This is your goal. Never lose sight of that!!
2) Make everything you do in the best interest of your kids. Always go the extra mile.
Give your STBX a day off every week. "That's OK, Honey. I'll take care of this. Why don't you go shopping?" Take advantage to document parenting time, and snoop around when she's not home.
The following sites offer charts to document parenting time and other relavent issues. Use them to help plan what you need to do.
"Cardinal Rule" No 4....... GET CONNECTED!! STAY INFORMED!!
1) Familiarize yourself with Family Laws, Administrative Rules, and court procedures. a) You must understand the court process and how the family law system works. b) It is your responsibility to know anything and everything that applies to you. c) Mastery of your state's Family Code will confer advantage to you in the courtroom.
As a father, you have rights. However, the goal of the judicial junta is to deny, and/or otherwise undermine those rights; ie, "rebuttable presumption." You've gotta be prepared.
2) Read books on winning custody. Read only those that work for you.
3) Get connected with a dads support group. This helps you stay focused. It's the most important thing you can do. a) With networking, your proactive effort becomes leveraged exponentially. b) Whether you gather or share, information is the a prequisite to constructive action. c) Hang out with winners. When things heat up, you'll need their support. d) AVOID losers and "nay-sayers." They'll drag you down.
4) BEWARE of your limitations. Find out what works for you and what doesn't.
You'll never survive if you do this alone. As discussed above, court-appointed professionals are not what they seem. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. They have no conscience.
"Cardinal Rule" No 5....... HIRE THE BEST FATHER FRIENDLY ATTORNEY YOU CAN FIND.
BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING. BEWARE of attorneys who "claim" to know everything. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Remember, you want results, not a compromise. Take your time. Shop around. Ask hard questions. Make your choice carefully.
Your attorney's specialty should be representing fathers in family court. HE MUST KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. He should't expect a large retainer. He should tell you his win/loss record as well as your chances of winning. He should tell you his billing policy. He should be well-connected. He should know judges and court-appointed professionals; GAL's, custody evaluators, psychologists, etc.
It's no secret. Attorneys are 99% of the problem. So......
1) Be prepared, well in advance, BEFORE you choose an attorney. Know what to expect. a) Above all, watch for "RED FLAGS."
2) Your attorney works for you. You must know ahead of time what you want and stick to it. a) Never allow your attorney to dissuade you from your ultimate goal. b) Never display "eager-to-deal." c) Never allow your attorney to drag the process out unnecessarily. For starters, get a trial date set ASAP. Don't haggle over "little things." Stay focused. Keep the pressure on.
Be prepared to tell your attorney everything, especially the truth. Be prepared to follow his advice.
3) NEVER "assume" that your attorney will know everything. a) Most of your knowledge will come from your support network; ie, experienced fathers who have tenacity and know the ropes.
4) Never expect your attorney to do "everything." a) Manage your case actively and personally.
5) If your attorney advises you to take the "high road," find another one ASAP. a) THIS IS WAR!! If you're gonna lose, go down fighting dirty.
6) Find a para-legal who's father friendly, one who's experienced with family law. a) As you know, some nurses know more than doctors. The same hold true for para-legals and attorneys. b) Find one you can count on. This is an important Plan B resource.
7) Speaking of Plan B, ALWAYS have a back-up for everything. You never know when you'll need it. a) If you have doubts, NEVER think twice about getting a second opinion. b) For that matter, never think twice about getting a different attorney.
8) As things progress, assess your chances of winning; best case versus worst case scenario. BE REALISTIC!! a) If you you have a "reasonable" chance of winning, then go for it, and go early. b) If you have "serious" doubts about winning, then settle early. Cut the best deal you can.
9) NEVER expect fairness from your STBX, much less fairness from the Family Court system. a) Realistically, your chances of winning are 3 in 100. b) If your ex is a junkie, a < edited >, a 3-time convicted felon, or any combination of the above, she'll win custody 97% of the time. These numbers are realistic.
This gives you some idea of what you're up against. Remember, you are at the mercy of Family Court thugs. The system is designed to degrade you and to bankrupt you. They'll force you spend your money any way they can. Like the "dog" that you are, they have tactics that bring you to "heel." THEY DON'T LIKE YOU!!
"Cardinal Rule" No 6....... NEVER GIVE, OR SIGN ANYTHING TO YOUR STBX IN ADVANCE
You know your STBX better than anyone. You know what's important to her. You also know her weakness. Between now and trial, you will find that your STBX is "her own favorite charity." Her greed will soon become evident. Learn to exploit that to your advantage. For now, find out what she wants.
At this stage, your STBX's "wants" are potential bargaining chips that can be exchanged later for things of importance to you, like property division/alimony.
Above all, never give her your children. They are not bargaining chips!! They are non-negotiable!! This is not open for discussion!! Stick to your guns!!
1) NEVER give, nor agree to give, anything to your STBX unless: a) the judge orders it. b) you get something of significance in return. c) you get it in writing. d) you get it from your attorney.
Remember at this stage, ANY converstion, agreement, or discussion MUST go through your attorney. No matter how much you hurt, never let your STBX back into your comfort zone.
2) Keep a list of everything you give to your STBX. Use items on that list as bargaining chips later on.
During the course of your marriage, giving freely to your wife was second nature. You never thought twice about it. Today however, she is something other than your "wife." Nevertheless, she still expects this "arrangement" of giving to continue. Worse yet, court professionals think this way too. You've gotta be careful.
For example, if you give her "this" today, tomorrow she'll ask for "that." She'll nickle and dime you for every "little thing," one piece at a time. It'll never end. Before you know it, she'll have all your "bargaining chips" and you'll have nothing. BEWARE of this trap. You need to terminate this practice immediately. There's a time for property division. That time isn't now. NEVER GIVE YOUR STBX ANYTHING!! Stick to your guns.
Remember, bargaining chips are very important. Individually, they may seem insignificant. Collectively however, and when "cashed in" at the right time, they WILL make a difference. If a bargaining chip has value for her, then it CERTAINLY has "value" for you. Never forget that.
Nevertheless, "IF" you must give her anything, make her sign a receipt for it. Think if it as an "advance" in property settlement. Be sure to list the item's "replacement cost." That receipt is now a bona-fide "document." Use it later as a bargaining chip when you divide community property. When the time is right, you can make her pay dearly for all those "little things" she took in advance.
"Cardinal Rule" No 7....... YOU FILE FIRST!! This is of the utmost importance.
For starters, you are forever the plaintiff and she's the defendant. That's a good thing. You get the opening shot. You design the playing field. You've got the momentum.
1) The secret is: a) do not relent. b) Maintain the upper hand. c) Set the rules of the game.
Remember, there's no guarantee that you'll prevail on every issue. But it's much better than starting the game on her terms.
2) A good lawyer is essential.
3) It's extremely important to you know want and that you are in a position to direct the outcome.
HOWEVER, file ONLY when you've got a solid game plan, and ONLY when you're ready. In other words, you pick the fight, when and where, on your terms. You want "home court advantage."
Surprise is everything. If you catch her off-guard, your STBX will be playing "catch-up" 'til trial, and beyond. THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA!! If you're thoroughly prepared, and follow-through on details, she'll never catch up.
Remember, if you get temporary custody at this stage, and if you've done your homework, and if everything goes according to plan, your chances for permanent custody are virtually assured. All this of course, depends on your attorney, your journal, the thoroughness of your strategy/game plan, and your commitment to active case management. Meanwhile.....
Get complete information on your STBX and children: Full names, aliases, maiden and nick names, other names used; dates and places of birth/death; Social Security numbers; Driver's License numbers; etc.
Get every document you can think of. Leave no stone unturned. Some documents will be difficult, if not impossible to get. If/when you get stuck, move on. Do your research well in advance, BEFORE you separate. If you are thorough, you'll reap huge dividends at trial.
Store ALL documents in a safe deposit box in your name only. These include:
1) Tax returns for the last several years. 2) Marriage license; pre-nuptial agreement. 3) Documents from your STBX's previous marriage/divorce. 4) Birth/death certificates. 5) Passports, green cards, immigration documents. 6) DMV record(s); criminal history. 7) Thorough background check on your STBX. Hire a PI if necessary. School records; college/high school diploma(s); transcript(s). 9) Medical and life insurance policies; will(s). 10) Deeds; titles; leases; contracts. 11) Bank statements; stocks, bonds and securities. 12) Retirement, pension, IRA, 401K, Keogh. 13) Credit report. 14) Family photos; heirlooms. 15) STASH YOUR CASH!!
Make sure you have passwords/access codes to ALL computers, bank accounts, credit cards, etc. Try them out. Make sure they work. Reset computer passwords with new software.
Get the following for your children:
1) Recent photos of your children, in clothes they typically wear. 2) Documentation of their physical descriptions. 3) Social Security, Student Body, and State ID cards. 4) Medical history, related info, and documents. 5) Immunization records. 6) Health history and/or special needs. 7) History of behavioral issues. History of prescription medication.
CONTACT INFO for STBX and children: friends; extended family; service providers, doctors; school, counselors, day care; etc. If your STBX runs off with your kids, you'll need to track them down.
STBX's previous marriage and children:
1) Is she getting alimony and/or child support? How much? Paid by who? a) Can she get alimony re-instated from her previous ex?
2) What was the value of her property settlement? What did she bring into your marriage?
3) Were any of her past debts serviced during the course of your marriage?
Remember, issues like these can, and do make a difference in property settlement. More importantly, this info might show "bad faith" or "intent." In other words, is your STBX is using marriage as a means of embezzlement or early retirement? Are you her next target?
STBX's school & job info:
1) Level of education/continuing education.
2) Current level and duration of employment/unemployment/underemployment/non-employment status. a) Salary history and benefits package. b) Career path. c) Job skills. d) Anticipated raises and/or promotions. e) Anticipated career/job change.
3) Document willingness, or lack thereof, to become employed, better employed, or otherwise permanently self-sustaining. a) You want to minimize potential alimony and child support as much as possible.
INVENTORY:
Take inventory of everything you own. List the difference between "cash value" and "replacement cost." There is a difference!! Back-up your written inventory with videos, pictures, and appraisals. Store everything in a safe place.
COMMUNITY ASSETS: Are they greater than you think? Where did it all go?
Before, or during your marriage, did your STBX set up any form of "asset protection" where she is named beneificiary? Remember, assets could be in her name or under an alias. Perhaps a friend, a relative, a bank, or an attorney has assets "buried" for your STBX under an alias, or within a corporation? These are all good places to hide marital assets:
1) Real estate. 2) Stocks, bonds. 3) LLC's, corporations, trusts. 4) Businesses; ventures. partnerships. 5) Off-shore holdings; bank accounts; investments.
WASTING MONEY:
During the course of your marriage, did your STBX, or did your STBX force/insist that you:
1) Give/piss away monies, assets, or property of any kind? 2) Did she waste money on herself? eg: college, clothes, jewelery, or cosmetic surgury? 3) Did she spend money on an outside relationship? 4) Did she waste money on a home business? 5) Did she forge your signature on any checks or documents? 6) Did she waste money on failed drug/alcohol treatment?
Remember, issues like these make a difference in property settlement.
ASSETS:
Make a thorough list of assets, equity, debt, monthly income, and expenses. List everything, including names that appear on each document. Don't forget student loans and day care. Your list must include: current values; dates of acquisition and purchase price; payment and income history (paid by/earned by who?). Your list must be exhaustive!!
Note: Any debt acquired during your marriage is a community debt. A student loan however, is more complicated. In essence, you are taking an "asset" with you and leaving a debt behind. If you anticipate paying child support and/or alimony, you could argue the increased income is a direct result of this asset. It is therefore simultaneously captured thru the debt, ie; your greater income potential would not be possible without the accompanying debt. Obviously, the other side will argue for higher support and leave you with your mountain of student loan debt at the same time. In other words, they want it both ways. Chances are,the judge will agree.
Real estate: Purchase price; equity; down payment; mortgage balance; monthly payment; maintenance; improvements; etc. Get your house appraised. Apply for refinancing. The numbers won't be equal. Such differences can be significant in property settlement.
Also include: Vehicles; boats; RV's; condo time shares; business/partnership interests/equity; credit cards; stocks & bonds; bank and investment accounts; jewelry and other items of value; etc.
Don't forget: Debts; gifts; inheritance; any type of "windfall;" lottery winnings; etc.
Meanwhile, STAY FOCUSED FROM THE BEGINNING.
1) DIG IN AND FIGHT DIRTY. THIS IS WAR!! THERE ARE NO RULES!! a) If you take the "high road," you will lose. b) If you compromise, you will lose.
2) Once you file, keep the heat on. NEVER let up on your STBX. a) It's up to you to maintain momentum and keep pressure on your STBX "CONTINUALLY." Your attorney can't possibly do this for you. This is your fight, and yours alone.
3) Filing first sets the tone for the entire process. a) The chances of winning or losing depends "SIGNIFICANTLY" upon who files first. b) Filing first gives you distinct advantage. You control the high ground. c) NEVER compromise your position nor your advantage.
4) As D-Day approaches: a) Entice your STBX to voluntarily leave, WITHOUT THE KIDS. Bribe her if necessary. b) While she's gone, clean out the house, take the kids, and file your court documents.
5) The moment D-Day arrives, you become "THE TERMINATOR." a) You instantly change from Dr Jeckyl to Mr Hyde. No more Mr Nice Guy. b) NEVER show mercy. Take no prisoners. c) This is war!! NEVER LOOK BACK!!
6) File your family court documents with the court clerk. Be sure the clerk date-stamps your documents. Then:
7) Go immediately to ex parte. a) Get a temporary restraining order against your STBX. b) Get temporary orders for "exclusive occupancy" of your house. That means your STBX gets gets evicted from your marital residence. c) Get orders granting you temporary sole custody of your kids. Say she is unfit and a risk to the kids due to ___________ (you think of something). d) Get temporary orders for supervised < parenting time >. e) Get orders for temporary child support and temporary alimony.
8) Give copies of your restraining order to the school, daycare, your employer, etc. a) Notify anyone involved with your kids that you have a restraining order against your STBX.
9) Change all locks and alarm codes on your house and car. a) Change passwords on everything, especially on bank and credit/debit cards. Deny your STBX access to any form of money.
10) Get a vicious dog that barks at your STBX. a) That'll keep her from snooping around when you're not home. b) Reward him to reinforce that behavior.
11) Get a new, unpublished phone number. Route all mail to a new PO Box.
12) Have your STBX's mail stopped. a) Return her unopened mail to sender.
13) Remove your STBX's name from your health, life, vision, and life insurance policies.
14) Remove your STBX's name as beneficary from your retirement accounts. a) Remove your STBX's name as beneficary from your will.
15) Inform companies with whom you do business that you want new passwords on your accounts; insurance, bank, etc. Instruct them that passwords must be used before releasing information or changing anything.
16) REMOVE ALL cash from joint accounts. a) Close all joint credit card accounts. b) If any accounts are in your name, but where she is authorized, cancel her.
17) Remove your name from the title and insurance for any car your STBX drives. a) Remove her name from the title and insurance for any car you drive. b) NEVER ALLOW your STBX to drive any car that is in your name. c) NEVER be responsible for your STBX's driving behavior. From now on, she's a liability.
1 NEVER OFFER your STBX her clothes and/or personal necessities. Wait 'til she asks. a) Make her sign a receipt for anything she takes. NO EXCEPTIONS!! b) Store her personal belongings in boxes. Set them on the sidewalk where she can pick them up and leave immediately. More importantly, she'll have no reason to roam through your house.
c) Release her belongings ONLY if she signs a receipt, and ONLY if she has a police escort.
19) File charges and PROSECUTE your STBX for any domestic violence. DO NOT DROP any charges.
20) Inform your employer that you want your calls screened. a) If your STBX calls, call the police and file a restraining order violation. DON'T EVEN THINK TWICE!! b) Use your employer's receptionist is a witness.
Do all of the above. Leave no stone unturned. These measures set the tone 'til trial. Cut off your STBX's money and resourses early in the game. Do anything and everything that hinders her bid for custody. THIS IS WAR!! NEVER LOOK BACK!!
MEANWHILE: Focus on the basics. Fine-tune your game plan. Work on strategy. Keep it simple.
Don't forget, ALWAYS HAVE A CONTINGENCY PLAN for everything (Plan B)
Get your financial house in order. Clean out/close out everything, especially joint accounts. Take "convenience" out of purchasing. This includes credit cards, on-line purchasing, and other "lines-of-credit" you've established over time. This vicious cycle must be broken.
Except for essentials, don't buy anything. If you must buy, pay with cash. Pay all bills the old-fashioned way. Write a check and drop it in the mail. Keep a record of bills that get paid.
"IN YOUR NAME ONLY" - Route all mail to a new PO Box. Get a new cell phone. Keep it secure. Use it for "IMPORTANT" business only. Open savings and checking accounts at a different bank. Get a new safe deposit box to store cash, valuables, and documents. Open new Visa & Mastercard accounts. Use them only for "EMERGENCIES." Get a line of credit as large as you can. Rent a storage locker to stash large items of value. Remember your inventory? Manage it closely. Get new passwords for everything, including credit cards, PC, & ATM.
STASH YOUR CASH in your new safe deposit box. Another option is to open a "secured" Visa/Mastercard account. The bank takes $XXXX.00 from one account deposits it in an interest-drawing "trust." Meanwhile, use the credit card as usual up to the secured dollar amount. You can deposit additional funds as they become available. This/these transaction(s) don't "appear" on bank or credit card statements. There's just less cash in your account.
MOVING ON - Convert what you can to cash. Think, "D-O-W-N-S-I-Z-E." Sell everything. Pay bills and reduce debt as much as possible. Save all receipts and bills of sale. You may need to account for everything later.
THIS MEANS: Cancel subscriptions and non-essential services. Cash in stocks and bonds. Sell the Lexus, the Suburban, the RV, and the boat. Sell your time shares for the condo, jewelery, china, and silverware. Include anything and everything you can think of. That means "boy's toys" too. You're not gonna have time for them once the proceeding begins.
Before selling your house, convert your equity into cash by refinancing. You're gonna need it. Remember, there's no guarantee that a sale will occur any time soon. For that matter, there's no guarantee you'll get your asking price. Furthermore, with commissions, taxes, fix-up and misc expenses, your equity could dwindle to something far less than you expected. It's best to cash out while you can.
The idea is to liquidate what you can ahead of time, while you have time. You won't have that luxury later. The time to sell is BEFORE you really have to. If you wait 'til the last minute, you'll be selling at a deep discount.
Keep plenty of cash on hand so there's no paper trail. You'll need this for "emergencies." For starters, earmark $10K for attorney fees and court expenses. Expect to need more later.
YOUR JOB:
Now is a great time to consider career options. They may be offered at work, or you may have to be creative: early retirement; continuing education; sabbatical; voluntarily lay-off/termination. Collect unemployment, severance package, restructure your career path. Do anything to minimize gross pay and maximize time spent getting prepared.
Postpone raises and promotions (if possible). Get your employer to tuck away a percentage of your salary where it can't be touched. Think, "asset protection." The idea is to minimize child support and alimony payments. You can return to your career path when this is over.
You may want to cash out your retirement/401K. Your STBX is gonna get half. You may as well get the other half. Your "rainy day" is here.
I know this sounds like a lot. It is. There's a lot at stake. Remember, the war starts the moment you file. Once you file, all hell's gonna break loose. You'll barely have time to keep up with details that follow, much less play "catch-up" or track down any of the above.
P.S. For reconciliation to happen I would need the following from you before making a commitment to reconcile:
> A full confession� > A sincere, remorseful apology� > Why you think this happened (name the problem on both sides --you've got to name it to claim it)� > A detailed recovery plan (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it)� > Proof you're working a 12-step program for addiction I used a sample from the thread
DCS
Has WW been involved in a recovery program for addictions in the past?
Just courious if this has been a long term issue or just recent.
If WW is a true addict (especially drugs/alcohol) then the course you are on is the only one that she may understand and sometimes even then the addiction wins out. Tough consequences.
No she hasn't but I truly believe she is addicted to this guy. Her behavior is erractic and she is constantly worried about what he thinks and says. Sometimes I get through to her. She goes to work and comes back meaner than before. I know this the OM giving her "advice". I appreciate the thread about the divorce. I started documenting today. Also, anyone here ever heard of someone getting a divorce then reconciling? Dont get me wrong I'm am focused on myself and our children now especially after the stunt she pulled. However like a crazy fool I still have hope this can be worked out in time. Lawyer consult tomorrow, I'll put my gametime face on. Thanks for your support everyone. If your reading this NG I would like to know if you reconciled with your WW after following the advice here.
No she hasn't but I truly believe she is addicted to this guy. Her behavior is erractic and she is constantly worried about what he thinks and says. Sometimes I get through to her. She goes to work and comes back meaner than before. I know this the OM giving her "advice". I appreciate the thread about the divorce. I started documenting today. Also, anyone here ever heard of someone getting a divorce then reconciling? Dont get me wrong I'm am focused on myself and our children now especially after the stunt she pulled. However like a crazy fool I still have hope this can be worked out in time. Lawyer consult tomorrow, I'll put my gametime face on. Thanks for your support everyone. If your reading this NG I would like to know if you reconciled with your WW after following the advice here.
It is very common for people to get divorced and remarried. At this time you should enter into plan B
DSC, our recovery took place before I found MB (which I first used to manage my memory-triggers).
There are some pertinent differences between our cases, however, relating to the criminal behavior of the parties involved.
In my case I was the one arrested on d-night due to some...over-exuberant...reaction to the discovery. Your WW's callous and calculated use of your children is far beyond what I had to deal with.
Eventually, even after reconciling your emotions about the affair, you'll have to come to terms with that. I do not envy you your task.
DSC, Good for you! Now to get your kids (hopefully both) back! Try not to focus on the finality or if you reconcile or not, right now focus on doing what you have to do. Yes there is hope, but only if both want recovery, at this point she isn't showing signs of that but that doesn't mean anything necessarily, WWs aren't themselves.
I read your story NG. I also feel I can pummel dismember and eradicate the OM. I know for a fact he is a career adulter and took advantage of my wife depression. On the other hand she is a grown woman and made this decision herself. I filed a police report because she hasnt brought my son to me yet and going to see a lawyer tomorrow concerning this. I appreciate all the kind words and advice. I just pray on this and that I can get both dhildren. I hope my WW wakes up before its too late for her...
What did the police say? You may need to file a "Contempt of Court" charge against her with the Court. The court will probably issue a warrant for her arrest If she refuses to produce the kids.
I think you should go to PR with the court order and have the police meet you at MIL house.
I am very concerned about the kids. I knew a man that was mentally unstable. His wife finally had enough of his BS and separated from him. He had supervised visitation rights. His sister was the supervisor. A store was across the street from her home. He said he was walking across the street to get his kids Icecream. He walked them across the street, loaded the two kids in a motor home he had parked hidden behind the store (purchased with money from a cult he belonged to) and left.
The police found him a few months later, pulled him over for a broken taillight out of state.
The police took the girls and the mom had to drive 1000 miles to get them. I am worried that your wife's family may try to hide the kids. You need to get your kid ASAP. And you need to call Children Services EVERY DAY that the older kid is not in school. (Children Services has the legal power to place the step son with you temporarily. Build a file so they know you are stable and care for the child. )
DSC, right now you are in a much different life-position than I was. My children were grown, and fully able to live basically independent lives. You have sooooo much more riding on your ability to maintain control, and not even provide a sniff of indication that you would violently deal with OM. So if I could hold it together, I must insist you do the same. There are minor children who are going to need a responsible parent, and it appears WW is not going to fill the bill.
I filed the report and they said since she hadn't been served it will take a couple of days. Meanwhile, I spoke with the CPS case worker and she sounds very concerned since WW not answering her phone calls or returning them. I'm glad she hasnt been returning them it helps strengthens my case. At the same time this is characteristic of her. I hope shes ok maybe it's just my imagination. Call and text her family everyday and still no answer I leave voicemails tho. I pray my family and our children are ok. Hope the lawyer can speed things up for me tomorrow.
I filed the report and they said since she hadn't been served it will take a couple of days. Meanwhile, I spoke with the CPS case worker and she sounds very concerned since WW not answering her phone calls or returning them. I'm glad she hasnt been returning them it helps strengthens my case. At the same time this is characteristic of her. I hope shes ok maybe it's just my imagination. Call and text her family everyday and still no answer I leave voicemails tho. I pray my family and our children are ok. Hope the lawyer can speed things up for me tomorrow.
CPS won't tolerate a missing kid. That case worker has more power than the police.
I suspect she will not appear for her drill. Then the MP will be looking for her. You need to send the IG a copy of the temporary protection orders issues by the court. Also let the IG know that she is in violation of court order.
Well I went to the lawyer and he wouldn't take the case because of the military aspect. I have another lawyer appointment tomorrow. This guy is ex JAG. My command called her command and she gave my 1sgt a number so I can talk to the kids. It was her number! Then my 1st sgt called and she gave them her moms number and of course as always they didn't answer. I'm going to JAG tomorrow as well tomorrow. I'm getting pissed off about this. She is obviously stalling and pulled the damsel in distress routine with her command and they are buying it. WW was in a abusive relationship before me and I'm sure she knows how to demonstrate it. She pulled this with my stepson's father as well. Except he did abuse her. So she is imagining this abuse I supposedly she did to her for justification for her A. All the while falling for a OM that has a history of doing this. She still hasnt been served the order of protection. Hopefully it gets there tomorrow and I can go forward with the kidnapping charges.
Well I went to the lawyer and he wouldn't take the case because of the military aspect. I have another lawyer appointment tomorrow. This guy is ex JAG. My command called her command and she gave my 1sgt a number so I can talk to the kids. It was her number! Then my 1st sgt called and she gave them her moms number and of course as always they didn't answer. I'm going to JAG tomorrow as well tomorrow. I'm getting pissed off about this. She is obviously stalling and pulled the damsel in distress routine with her command and they are buying it. WW was in a abusive relationship before me and I'm sure she knows how to demonstrate it. She pulled this with my stepson's father as well. Except he did abuse her. So she is imagining this abuse I supposedly she did to her for justification for her A. All the while falling for a OM that has a history of doing this. She still hasnt been served the order of protection. Hopefully it gets there tomorrow and I can go forward with the kidnapping charges.
Its a good thing they didn't answer your 1st sgt phone call. The mere fact that a 1st Sgt is calling shows that the military is taking action. Make sure you continue to call Children Svcs every day the stepson is not in school. Also since 48 hours have elapsed you can add your missing son to the Children Svcs report.
I think you should go to puerto Rico and get your kids.
I am logging filed for divorce today. I have a court date on the 15 of October. Hopefully they will give me my son and she has sense to give me the step son as well so they aren't split up. I hope she comes back but it's no more mr. Nice guy I'm going in stoic and for blood i will not let my WW off the hook for her crimes against our family. She is going to fall on her face hard and when she does I will not help her up she needs to realize all the pain she caused! THIS IS WAR!
I am logging filed for divorce today. I have a court date on the 15 of October. Hopefully they will give me my son and she has sense to give me the step son as well so they aren't split up. I hope she comes back but it's no more mr. Nice guy I'm going in stoic and for blood i will not let my WW off the hook for her crimes against our family. She is going to fall on her face hard and when she does I will not help her up she needs to realize all the pain she caused! THIS IS WAR!
Yes sir! This is war. Did you call Children Svcs today?
I still love my WW and she will come back I know it. What I don't know is if I will take her back after all this. Time will tell I guess. SIL sent me some messages after I talked with my children it seems my thoughts were spot on. WW told SIL I treated my biological son better than my stepson! LOL also I abused her physically even though she's the one with the arrest lol. It's amazing how her family believe this! Without any proof. Since she was abused by my stepson's dad and her family didn't do anything about it. They ocercompesating when she makes these ridiculous claims. I text SIL, "time will reveal the truth and you will see how your sister is behaving to conceal an affair and I love you all even though your wronging me and enabling my wife to destroy our families, god bless you". The text stop then, at this point I'm numb to the whole situation and looking forward to this divorce and hearing how she falls on her face after OM beats the manure out of her. Thanks again for helping me out guys hopefully when this is over I can pay it forward!
Yes and it seems my dear in laws are telling them lies and they want to come home. It's sad but on 15OCT I will have my day in court and it's not looking good for my WW. Her world will destroyed by her own doing and I will have our children I feel sorry for her but it's her own fault.
Can you please provide more info? Do you have an attorney? If so what did he say about getting the kids? You have custody of the kids now. He has not returned them. What are you doing to get the child?
Lawyer says she is violation of the court order of protection. However since my son is out of country it's hard to enforce. Also I could go get my biological son but I can't take my stepson. I don't want to go to Puerto Rico and do that because it would hurt my stepson that daddy can't get him and I'm not sure he will understand. Lawyer said at the hearing on 15OCT12 she will have to bring my biological son and at that time she might be arrested for violating the order. Also is she doesnt show then the order will be extended to 2 years! They will issue a warrant for her arrest and pay for my son to be returned to me! That day my lawyer will serve her the divorce papers. She said we will go to mediation to dot this out if we are both willing. So I have to wait till then unless something else happens. I really believe she out of her fog and is a wreck. Wouldnt surprise me she wants to reconcile after all this. However, I'm not sure I'm so willing. Kids are with MIL in PR for sure if they fail to produce them they will be arrest for concealment of a minor.
Read this post by new creation and it brought tears to my eyes. My WW is in the same situation, it hurts cause I know that she will fall for that trap that OMs use to get their supposed "soul mates" OM has 7 kids 4 for sure 3 in contention and my WW is madly in love with him. I love her despite her A and I am scared she might get pregnant by him and/or Marry him. With the background he has and what the ex wife told me hes going to run her through the wringer. I hope and pray that he's content with the PA they just had and move on. My WW has serious depression issues and stopped taking her meds in April 2012. I really think this was a cause of her wayward behavior. If this happens I'm afraid she might really commit suicide. Hopefully she realizes the seriousness of the situation and breaks of her A and agrees to a MB program some where down the line before this happens. NG I'm awaiting your angry post about being a sucker just so you know I plan on doing my plan b without breaches and so far so good I kept it up.
DSC, I read a lot of you and other BH's put an awful lot of blame on the OM and/or illness. Don't do that!! That rests solely on her shoulders and you should mot be making excused for her.
Lawyer says she is violation of the court order of protection. However since my son is out of country it's hard to enforce. Also I could go get my biological son but I can't take my stepson. I don't want to go to Puerto Rico and do that because it would hurt my stepson that daddy can't get him and I'm not sure he will understand. Lawyer said at the hearing on 15OCT12 she will have to bring my biological son and at that time she might be arrested for violating the order. Also is she doesnt show then the order will be extended to 2 years! They will issue a warrant for her arrest and pay for my son to be returned to me! That day my lawyer will serve her the divorce papers. She said we will go to mediation to dot this out if we are both willing. So I have to wait till then unless something else happens. I really believe she out of her fog and is a wreck. Wouldnt surprise me she wants to reconcile after all this. However, I'm not sure I'm so willing. Kids are with MIL in PR for sure if they fail to produce them they will be arrest for concealment of a minor.
She does not want to reconcile. My wife had an Affair with a guy that was a convicted child abuser. She also has mental illness or personality disorders. But that's a fact of life. Not an excuse.
Understood, I will still have hope that she will eventually see the error in her ways and want to reconcile. I'll just stay the course and not think about it. Heading to the gym to work out thanks for your support.
Understood, I will still have hope that she will eventually see the error in her ways and want to reconcile. I'll just stay the course and not think about it. Heading to the gym to work out thanks for your support.
I'm good, lost 43 lbs since this happened and out on 5 lbs of muscle! Going to college and awaiting this court date. I also taking a parenting class. Trying to keep busy so I won't think of my WW. Gotta keep the plan B going
I'm good, lost 43 lbs since this happened and out on 5 lbs of muscle! Going to college and awaiting this court date. I also taking a parenting class. Trying to keep busy so I won't think of my WW. Gotta keep the plan B going
I'm glad you're taking care of yourself. Self care is so very important.
Do you have an IM?
Was the last time you talked to her at the hotel confrontation?
NG I'm awaiting your angry post about being a sucker
Hunh, it musta got lost in the mail.
DSC, I've written basically the same response to about the last four of your notes, and scrapped each one as an unneeded distraction from the vital tasks in which you are engaged.
Net/net, the key point I would have made (and now will make) is to suggest you to take off the "love goggles" that distort your perception of the true essence of WW. In her present manifestation, she is not worthy to be spoken of as the object of your "love". The mis-estimation of her "worth" as a mate and lover will present a huge barrier to your taking the optimum and necessary actions in defense of you family and your best (personal) interests.
I'm good, lost 43 lbs since this happened and out on 5 lbs of muscle! Going to college and awaiting this court date. I also taking a parenting class. Trying to keep busy so I won't think of my WW. Gotta keep the plan B going
Good Decision. I also took a parenting class and it helped me a lot
Last time I actually talked to her was at the confrontation. I use my dad as a IM and she has yet to contact him. NG the goggles are off, she isn't aware of my tire feelings. I am sure she firmly believes that she is in too deep and can't come back. I will address my relationship woes once I have my kids back. I filed for divorce, I am not sure of the situation of the A nor do I care. My focus is my kids now after I get them back. I will continue my Plan B I emailed her the letter and texted her as well. I still have hope but at this point it's about my kids not the recovering the relationship. 75% sure she will wake up from her fog when she is served the divorce papers and if she agrees to recover I believe I will still go through with the divorce.
Love is patient, is kind: love envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things
Bearing and enduring her behavior, and believing her nonsense is NOT what you should be considering this week.
You may love the woman who once was, my friend. It would be oxymoronic to profess love for the creature she has become.
Do what you must do. Maintaining a cold and clinical attitude toward your enemy will help.
Hey DSC, I also have a WW that stole my SS and DS a year ago. I have been in your shoes. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I did get my DS home but unfortunately I was not able to take SS.
Well NP were you ever able to get full custody because of it? WW realize she messed up and you shut the door in her face? Any tools as a father I can use so I can get everything in the divorce?
Well NP were you ever able to get full custody because of it? WW realize she messed up and you shut the door in her face? Any tools as a father I can use so I can get everything in the divorce?
Request a Guardian ad Litem (GAL) for your kids. Request a Court Custody Evaluation. Obtain copies of medical records concerning your wife's depression. This could e insurance papers, diagnosis etc. In custody the court wants to know who is best able to care for the kids. Complete your parenting class.
Start parenting classes on the 16 and will start an anger managment class too any good books out there on parenting anyone wants to share? Packed up all the the things that have pictures of my family and cards I gave her and she received from my family. Also found a bank statement from her account that has suspicious purchases on it. Putting them all in a storage box so I can have for later. Tomorrow I will pack her stuff up and set it downstairs do she isnt roaming in the marital house that I rightfully deserve! Not gonna lie NG I cried looking at the photos but it's only weakness if the WW sees me right?! HDW did you settle your divorce in mediation? I'm thinking of skipping that any thoughts based on your experience? Didn't talk to my kids today but SIL sent text apologizing for missing my call. Might be a trick gonna stay frosty and play my cards close to my chest. I really think I have WW on the ropes. Also in plan b is it ok to dig into OM past? Or should I leave that be?
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Start parenting classes on the 16 and will start an anger managment class too any good books out there on parenting anyone wants to share? Packed up all the the things that have pictures of my family and cards I gave her and she received from my family. Also found a bank statement from her account that has suspicious purchases on it. Putting them all in a storage box so I can have for later. Tomorrow I will pack her stuff up and set it downstairs do she isnt roaming in the marital house that I rightfully deserve! Not gonna lie NG I cried looking at the photos but it's only weakness if the WW sees me right?! HDW did you settle your divorce in mediation? I'm thinking of skipping that any thoughts based on your experience? Didn't talk to my kids today but SIL sent text apologizing for missing my call. Might be a trick gonna stay frosty and play my cards close to my chest. I really think I have WW on the ropes. Also in plan b is it ok to dig into OM past? Or should I leave that be?
There is not a plan B like the others use here that applies to you. You are entering legal war. In war you need to know about your opponent. Get as much info as possible. I went to mediation, court ordered. But I didn't agree to anything. Mediation is too emotional, too much risk of making an emotional decision that can affect you for life.
The reason why lawyers are good is because they are emotionally detached from their clients cases. They can strategize objectively.
In my divorce case, the beginning was similar to yours. Wife had affair with dangerous felon. He went to prison for tryin to kill his daughter. (cops saved her life). When I became aware of his criminal record I dropped plans for marital recovery and focused on my kids. My wife responded to divorce papers as saying she was willing to reconcile. I wanted to believe her but her actions did not meet her words.
As in your case, her father became an enabler. Bought her an affair phone. Gave her money. She portrayed herself as a victim.
But at the same time I had exposed the affair and sent his criminal background report to all family members (which really ruined her plans of replacing me with him. Her family hates this guy and would never allow their kids aroun him. That made her very angry. Angry people make irrational decisions).
I took a parenting class and became more involved with my kids. I started cooking all the meals , cleaning the house, planning events. And she lived here the entire time. I did a Plan A during the divorce process.
I filed for a "Guardian ad Litem" (GAL) for the kids. The Court ordered a custody evaluation (which cost me nothing because I was low income). My wife continued to unravel as I did a plan A. She would flip me off, tell me to burn in hell, wake me up at 2 in the morning and te me she is worried for my mental health. That I was imagining conversations and that I show signs of psychosis.
Finally she couldn't handle being in the house under a Plan A and left. Sometimes for hours ; sometimes for days; then eventually gone for weeks.
The Court Investigator took this matter of leaving the home very serious. It is a type of abandonment. My wife told the investigator I was psychotic and dangerous and she needed full custody. One day after interviewing my wife the investigator recommended that I am awarded temporary full custody. The court granted it.
At home my wife told me that she was done being a mom. She needed the money (child support) to live on. OM was summoned to court at first hearing. This infuriated my wife. I told her his daughter will also be summoned to testify about her fathers parenting skills.
In the end she agreed (through the lawyers) to supervised visitation. The court said she can have partial custody when she has a residence and a letter of fitness from a doctor. And court ordered the kids are to have NO contact with OM.
So with the blessing of God I have custody of my kids today. And they are protected from a lifestyle of drug addict felon boyfriends. They are raised in a Christian home instead of one full of dope and adultery.
And I documented everything along the way. The court investigator knew when my wife was coming and going. I work in the construction industry and payment disputes are common. I learned in a project management class "he with the biggest pile of paperwork wins". People rely on written documentation much more than verbal recollections. Plus my wife was seriously sleep deprived and imagining all sorts of things. One time she thought she was being drugged secretly by her mom and by me. Waywards sound crazy anyway so if you push hard enough they will often run off to te OM. Which is basically what your wife has done.
You already have court records on your side. I wouldn't try for mediation. My lawyer made it clear to me: he didnt care if I lost everything. But he did not want the kids near OM. He was willing to take it to trial.
Make it clear to your wife you will go to trial if she does not meet your terms. And OM and his daughter and ex wife WILL be summoned to testify. Then she will tell OM and he will put pressure on her to settle. Use them against each other!
Well my WW didn't pay car note and she got fired from her job due to being absent. Tomorrow I'm goin to the job to get paperwork stating this from HR. I don't know what to do about the car. They tried to serve her the order of protection and they can't find her. I can't lie on this I'm worried about her this behavior isn't like her. I'll pray on it. Thanks for the advice HDW
Well my WW didn't pay car note and she got fired from her job due to being absent. Tomorrow I'm goin to the job to get paperwork stating this from HR. I don't know what to do about the car. They tried to serve her the order of protection and they can't find her. I can't lie on this I'm worried about her this behavior isn't like her. I'll pray on it. Thanks for the advice HDW
I'm also very worried. I'm worried her family will hide the kids. Did she show for her drill? Is she AWOL?
No I dont know where the POSOM and WW are. I have the court hearing on the 15th. I don't want to go to puerto rico cause I will only be only able to get DS not SS and I know it will crush him. She attended her drill, I honestly think she is at rock bottom and POSOM is out of the picture. Lawyer advised me to wait on court date then we can take some more legal action especially if she doesn't show.
Appreciate the help, I'll wait till the 15th if she doesn't show up in court I'll file a missing persons report. Praying about this. I really want her at that court date so I can get my DS back. WW are the worst, keeping our son from me like I done something wrong and running to hotels with POSOM that destroy there own family and many others with their selfish acts of adultery!
Yes I did, talk with the command in puerto Rico. Have an old friend there apparently she there. She went to the command there to transfer. Going to stay the course and wait till court date if she doesn't show I'm heading to puerto rico to settle this. I cannot allow her to hurt me, our kids, families, and herself anymore.
DSC, You have had that court order in your hand for a week now and still haven't gone and gotten your child. What are you waiting for????
Originally Posted by DSC
I cannot allow her to hurt me, our kids, families, and herself anymore
Then why are you?? You are abandoning your children by doing nothing.
Do your DS and SS know about their mom's affair? It's by her actions if she won't allow your SS to go home. I think you need to go get your DS. The judge will see it as you not doing anything to get him.
DSC, You have had that court order in your hand for a week now and still haven't gone and gotten your child. What are you waiting for????
Originally Posted by DSC
I cannot allow her to hurt me, our kids, families, and herself anymore
Then why are you?? You are abandoning your children by doing nothing.
Do your DS and SS know about their mom's affair? It's by her actions if she won't allow your SS to go home. I think you need to go get your DS. The judge will see it as you not doing anything to get him.
Well I say listen to the attorney. If he recommended waiting till court date then wait. The thing is, you want the system to fight her. She can't fight the system and win. Since she reported to command in PR the military should be able to serve her. Call the MP and ask if they can serve her while she is on duty.
I'm going to follow the lawyer's advice the judge knows she fled with the kids and advise me to seek help from an attorney. Like I stated previously if she isn't at the court date I'm taking leave and getting my kids back! POSOM is at work. IG submitted my complaint to both of their commands. I call CPS everyday about this and document in my journal. I wish I could talk to my kids but the SIL/MIL don't answer their phones. Now I wait and document everything till court
DSC, I am not saying to not follow your lawer's advice but sometimes you need to ask questions of them to make sure it is in your best interest. Remember they work for you.
He is a bit of my story so take it for what it is worth.
October 1st 2011 my WW stole my DS and SS. I gave her a week to snap out of the craziness. She did not. She concealed her where abouts and had no communication with the children. I file for D, got an emergency injunction against her for her to return my DS. A week later the paper work from the courts finally showed up, for some reason they drug there feet for an extra 2 days.
I overnighted the summons to the sherrifs office to have her served at 4 different locations. All were returned stating "she does not live here".
My L then gave 2 options, hire a PI and wait or find her myself and get my son back. I choose not to wait, I showed the judge that I was concerned about the well being and where abouts of DS.
When all was said and done and I had DS home, WW tried to have the injuction dismissed but because of all that I went thru trying to find her the judge denied her request.
My WW should have gone to jail but I intervined for SS sake.
Newpath, thanks for sharing ur story. That is what this site is all about. Helping those who have begun the path that we have already traveled.
DSC, I hope everything works out the way you want it to on the 15th. Personally, my a55 would have been in Puerto Rico a week ago. But I'm a mama bear and no one gets between me and my kids!
Done thanks HDW. I have access to her email and she doesnt know it. WW didn't change her password lol. So I'll be snooping and keeping an eye out on stuff. I got a week or so till court. Everytime I feel like I miss her I'll just hit the gym. Reading how to survive an affair all over again as well. Wish me luck on the 15th! I hope she doesnt show. I'm sure she will try to talk to me on that date I'll listen but offer no response! Stoic is the way to be. Is it true when WW hit the low point they snap out of the fog? Any FWW can testify to this of women in general?
Done thanks HDW. I have access to her email and she doesnt know it. WW didn't change her password lol. So I'll be snooping and keeping an eye out on stuff. I got a week or so till court. Everytime I feel like I miss her I'll just hit the gym. Reading how to survive an affair all over again as well. Wish me luck on the 15th! I hope she doesnt show. I'm sure she will try to talk to me on that date I'll listen but offer no response! Stoic is the way to be. Is it true when WW hit the low point they snap out of the fog? Any FWW can testify to this of women in general?
I don't know how you could get over what she has done to you. Sure, people will respond @you don't get over or forgive, instead she gives you just compensation"
But what is the just compensation? And what would the extroadinary precautions be? She kidnapped the kids and moved them out of the states and her family is helping her do this. This isn't like a workplace affair where the precaution is to stop having sex with Bob and quit the job. Her precautions would be.... GPS on car, mil banned for life, kids tattooed "mom may kidnap me call police if I'm in PR". What would family reunions be like?
I can tell you that I have read enough threads to know that some ww never come out of the fog. I suppose it can be compared to an alcoholic. Some hit rock bottom and get help while others stay at Rock bottom. The inner city parks are full of them.
I do believe she can be forgiven. I understand just compensation concept I really think she realized she made a mistake. As for her taking off with the kids to another country I don't see that happening and if it does I made precautions via the military to ensure I know where she is at all times. However, I shouldn't be talking about this at this time gets me emotional when I need to be stoic calm and methodical for our kids sakes. I will update you guys on the 15th. Till then I'll keep improving myself personally and hope for the best bit prepare for the worst! God bless
Done thanks HDW. I have access to her email and she doesnt know it. WW didn't change her password lol. So I'll be snooping and keeping an eye out on stuff. I got a week or so till court. Everytime I feel like I miss her I'll just hit the gym. Reading how to survive an affair all over again as well. Wish me luck on the 15th! I hope she doesnt show. I'm sure she will try to talk to me on that date I'll listen but offer no response! Stoic is the way to be. Is it true when WW hit the low point they snap out of the fog? Any FWW can testify to this of women in general?
When you login into her email account use a proxy server so it can't be traced back to you. Or do It from a coffee shop etc
Well you are married with a protective order and..... Have you filed for divorce? I don't think you can legally view her private email account. Ask your attorney. If she uses it to communicate with an attorney snooping would be looked down upon by the court.
Check out this article about a husband being tried for accessing his wife's email.
Just because someone was put on trial does not mean that this was found to be against the law. If you are going to post links about legal issues, you need to find outcomes that tell us the legal precedent, otherwise this is just scaremongering.
We also need to note that lawd vary from state to state. However, I believe that a case in Michigan brought against a snooping BH failed recently.
I am unaware of any successful prosecutions of spouses reading emails.
Just because someone was put on trial does not mean that this was found to be against the law. If you are going to post links about legal issues, you need to find outcomes that tell us the legal precedent, otherwise this is just scaremongering.
We also need to note that lawd vary from state to state. However, I believe that a case in Michigan brought against a snooping BH failed recently.
I am unaware of any successful prosecutions of spouses reading emails.
My apologies. I'll rephrase my post: DSC, I encourage you to ask an attorney what types of snooping is legal instead of an Internet forum
There are many posters that will encourage illegal spying. However if you read the intro to the snooping thread there is a disclaimer stating that you should check into your local or state laws. In my specific case I was encouraged by some well meaning posters to do various types of spying. I asked my attorney and he explained that the only type permitted in my state during divorce is a recorder on my person. He told me not to leave a recorder in a room, vehicle, etc.
Now will you be prosecuted If you violate a state or federal law? Most likely not.
Is it worth doing it? I would say yes because your kids have been abducted and she refuses to return them. But CYA. You can use a proxy server in China that can't be traced or just a starbucks.
You are In a legal minefield. You really need to ask your attorney for guidance. Maybe just email him and ask.
DSC, how can you really say that you believe that she realized that she made a mistake? I don't see that by her continued actions at all. She may be thinking, "Oh, maybe I should have done that differently, or maybe I shouldn't have done this or that. But, she is not correcting anything. She has not returned your children. She has not done anything to correct her wrongs. She is still going with her original choices. Drop the false hope for goodness until she actually does the right thing and gives compensation. She might say she is sorry at some point, even then, it is only words. Judge her actions!!! Don't listen to anything she says. Her actions in turning this around, fixing it, making it better will show her true feelings and intentions.
Cool I'll ask my lawyer about it. Also I will always have hope and I won't let it deter my actions. I will stay the course and your right. I don't want an apology I want actions. She hasn't demonstrated that. Through out this the only thing I regret is not finding this site sooner. Thanks for your help and honest opinion on my problem. Brings clarity to an already muddy situation.
Here are additional articles from attorneys stating that it is illegal to read a spouses emails during legal proceedings:
None of those articles actually says that. They all state that some activities are illegal, but they do not say that "reading a spouse's emails during legal proceedings" is illegal.
The articles all state that legality depends on several things, such as whether the computer is in the home and is shared by the spouses, and whether the email is stored on the hard drive of a shared PC. "Intercepting" an email is illegal, but "reading" one is not. Putting spyware on a jointly-purchased PC might not be illegal.
We need to warn spouses to check the law in their state, and not to break the law. We should not say that it is illegal to read emails during divorce proceedings without adding lots of qualifiers. And since we posters are unlikely to be attorneys in the state in question (in the thread), it is best not to give blanket advice about the law, but to advise the poster to check the law.
"An illustrative case is White v. White, 344 N.J. Super. 211 (Ch. Div. 2001). The White case is the first reported New Jersey decision that addresses the admissibility of a husband's "private" e-mail communications between himself and his girlfriend accessed by the wife's computer expert. The court denied the husband's motion to suppress the e-mails on the grounds that the wife's action violated the New Jersey Wiretap Act. Finding that the e-mails had been stored, i.e., saved, "post-transmission" in the husband's personal electronic file cabinet, the court held that the New Jersey Wiretap Act only applies to communications that are in transmission, and not to those that have been previously sent and saved.
The White court further held that the wife's accessing the "private" e-mail communications of the husband did not constitute an invasion of privacy since the husband had no objective reasonable expectation thereof. The evidence showed that the e-mails were accessed from a computer maintained in a sunroom that the husband had been occupying during the parties' in-house separation; that the wife and the parties' three children were in and out of the room for various reasons, including the use of the computer; and that, while easy to do, the husband failed to employ any privacy protection mechanisms to prevent unwarranted intrusions into his personal files. The court also found that the wife's arguable snooping into her husband's personal affairs to learn information about his possible affair was not uncommon under such circumstances."
As an attorney myself I can tell you what will happen if you ask your attorney about snooping on your spouse. He/she will tell you not to do it. Attorneys are going to be reticent to recommend you do anything that may be illegal as that would make them your co-conspirator. To snoop or not to snoop, legal or not, is a personal decision. My personal opinion is do it and just be careful and DON'T GET CAUGHT. Further, be prepared with what to say and/or not say to defend yourself with valid legal defenses should you get caught. As far as your attorney goes...you need to be careful how much of your snooping you actually reveal to him/her as, if asked, you may not be able to deny such snooping if your attorney knows. Your attorney may ask you to hand it over and give it up in simply to a general question on an interrogatory.
[for example...I know a guy that secretly installed a camera in OM's house. He NEVER told his attorney. The information was for his personal use...not legal use and his attorney would have been obligated to report a crime]
The Michigan case HDW mentioned above involved a crazy lone wolf prosecutor with an apparent vendetta and the case was eventually dismissed (the trial never happened). The case actually presents a pretty good example of a good defense. The betrayed husband was on the family computer and claimed his wife's email passwords were written on a notepad on the desk next to the computer. He claimed she had no expectation of privacy. But after nearly 2 years of a prosecution over his head I'm sure he'd have been much better off not saying anything and making the prosecutor prove the entire case including that he actually was on a computer reading her email at all.
I'd suggest some other defenses...
1. Family or otherwise shared computer systems are/should be safe to invade and monitor. Basic property rights...I can do what I want with MY property.
2. Shared email accounts (joint family business is and has always been conducted on both your accounts ...your access was widely known for years...NO expectation of privacy)
3. Keylogger has been on computer for years and well known to everyone (it's much easier to make this a "he said-she said" case whereupon you are admitting the keylogger is there but that she and everyone knew it and consented to it rather than a fruitless effort denying you put it there at all)
4. Voice Activated Recorders... never tape your own voice on the recorder when testing it, practicing with it or placing it. One of the best defenses is to claim you know nothing about it and that your spouse actually place it and was recording you and/or is trying to entrap you by claiming it's yours when she's the one that hid it. [buy it with cash, throw away receipt, don't leave fingerprints on it]
5. Do not store snooping results in your own possession. Hand off, mail out or send off electronic files to a trusted or sibling, such that if you are ever asked to produce any documents, files, records in your possession...you can justify not producing it since it's not in your immediate possession or control and, at that moment in time, you don't know it's whereabouts or even if it still exists.
6. Interestingly, things like GPS devices on cars can readily be placed by a private investigator whereas if you do it they may try to say it's a breach of privacy. If it's YOUR car...you should be able to do whatever you want to it.
7. Cell phones...again...shared marital property. Your defense is your spouse has always shared his/her cellphone with you. You've even taken their phone to work and trips when yours was broken or your battery was dead. You share the account and she and you agreed years before in your marriage to maintain openness and honesty in your marriage and allowing access to each others cell phones was a part of that. Maybe recall some time you had a text message conversations with a mutual friend on your spouse's phone. Claim their offense AFTER the fact is completely disingenuous.
Finally, if you are EVER questioned by the police or a prosecutor about your snooping you don't have to tell them ANYTHING. These cases are very hard to make as prosecutors are VERY reluctant to get involved in domestic prosecutions between husband and wives (even divorcing ones). If you speak to them and CONFESS you've just made it 1,000 times more likely they may actually prosecute you. You are NOT compelled to confess. Make them PROVE IT....as is your right and, way more often than not, they won't bother.
You guys won't believe this or maybe you will. SIL texted me that my WW got bad news from the doctor. I don't know what it is but here comes the coup De grace! Then she went on to say WW wants me to send money so she can get a plane ticket for the court dates on the 15th and 31st! I really believe OM is out the picture and she regretting her actions. Am I gonna pay for a plane ticket? Nope, she got the audacity to ask that after what she done she really crazy. Also, she claims my kids went to the ER for a sickness and paid out of pocket even though the kids are on my military insurance. Once again using my DS and SS as a ATM. I'm not doing that either if they weren't there because of her stupid foggy thinking and dumba55 actions they wouldn't be sick. I would pay if it was true but it's not I have 0 proof from a habitual liar. Any opinions on the correct course of action will be greatly appreciated.
You guys won't believe this or maybe you will. SIL texted me that my WW got bad news from the doctor. I don't know what it is but here comes the coup De grace! Then she went on to say WW wants me to send money so she can get a plane ticket for the court dates on the 15th and 31st! I really believe OM is out the picture and she regretting her actions. Am I gonna pay for a plane ticket? Nope, she got the audacity to ask that after what she done she really crazy. Also, she claims my kids went to the ER for a sickness and paid out of pocket even though the kids are on my military insurance. Once again using my DS and SS as a ATM. I'm not doing that either if they weren't there because of her stupid foggy thinking and dumba55 actions they wouldn't be sick. I would pay if it was true but it's not I have 0 proof from a habitual liar. Any opinions on the correct course of action will be greatly appreciated.
plz send money she needs it to buy plane ticket to go to court. Cant talk about her sick but it was the ginecologo that - SIL
Xander is sick. Seifer was sick and mom had to take him to the ER, she had to pay for everything out of pocket and im telling you on Shantels behalf to plz - SIL
So really just wanna to contact u cuz moms need the money back,kids need more medicine and food. And u need to stop say that i have excuses - SIL
I really believe its my wife using her sister phone because the order of protection.
Agree don't send the money. My WH had the audacity to ask me for money to pay his rent when HE chose to move out. At first I said yes, then I realized the lunacy of it. She has family. Actions have consequences.
plz send money she needs it to buy plane ticket to go to court. Cant talk about her sick but it was the ginecologo that - SIL
Xander is sick. Seifer was sick and mom had to take him to the ER, she had to pay for everything out of pocket and im telling you on Shantels behalf to plz - SIL
So really just wanna to contact u cuz moms need the money back,kids need more medicine and food. And u need to stop say that i have excuses - SIL
I really believe its my wife using her sister phone because the order of protection.
DSC. Does your ww or her family use Facebook or social media? Make sure your monitor that. You may want to register for Internet dating using an alias and search for matches in your sil close area (see if she is on there)
I have eyes on Fb accounts, SIL texted me that WW might have cervical cancer. I'm skeptical on that because she asked for money and then says this. Sounds like a pity party to me. Anyways doing a lot better with this situation. Ran 10 miles and feel fit as ever. Going to upgrade my wardrobe and do some chores. WW has SIL call me to talk with the kids 2 times this week. Plan B is working IMO. Will continue and go forth. Thanks for the support everyone, date circled for the 15th court date depending on the outcome I'll adjust my plan b list to reflect she will also be served divorce papers on that date as well.
plz send money she needs it to buy plane ticket to go to court. Cant talk about her sick but it was the ginecologo that - SIL
Xander is sick. Seifer was sick and mom had to take him to the ER, she had to pay for everything out of pocket and im telling you on Shantels behalf to plz - SIL
So really just wanna to contact u cuz moms need the money back,kids need more medicine and food. And u need to stop say that i have excuses - SIL
I really believe its my wife using her sister phone because the order of protection.
My suggested reply:
Please forward medical records of ER visit.
Nothing else.
DSC
Did you try this suggestion by PepperBand?
May be worth trying and good to have on record for you and custody. Also a copy of the ER bill and medicin cost $$.
Would be worth considering for court. Shows you are wlling to provide for your children even under the circumstances. You just want verifiable proof of the bills incurred.
ETA-Have this medical info faxed or a copy of the bill e-mailed to you. A text with $$$ amounts is worthless and basically heresay.
I asked and have yet to receive them. I know why my sons are sick they are not acclimated to PR weather. Im training for a half marathon. Trying to get my six pack back. Beat the hell out of my arms at the gym today got home fell asleep and couldn't wake up till now lol. WW is shaking in her boots 15th is almost here! POSOM came for sex got it and is sleeping peacefully not worried about her. I believe she knows that and is too stubborn, scared and worried I won't take her back cause she pulled something so stupid! Plan B in effect hell yea. I won't respond to anymore texts as well. Hopefully she can unfog her thinking so I can't keep our family together! if not oh we'll Ill be getting my son soon! God bless you all and keep me in your prayers! I'll be praying for a happy ending myself !
God grant me the strength to change the things I can change, The serenity to accept the things I cannot not change and The wisdom to know the difference
At the moment, I don't think so, since you are in Plan B. It would break the darkness between you and you do not want to do that right now. It would give you both a fix of each other that you don't need.
Don't communicate with her. Don't try to fix her. You have enough issues comin up. A wayward in a fog will throw that book in the trash. Trust me, I tried it LOL
Don't communicate with her. Don't try to fix her. You have enough issues comin up. A wayward in a fog will throw that book in the trash. Trust me, I tried it LOL
I second that. Remember, you can't educate a wayward.
I used to run a couple 13 mile races a month. Since divorce I've had to scale way back due to having custody of 3 kids! I'm going to hit 5ks hard next year. I am running a half marathon in a couple weeks.
During this stressful time, running (hard running like 10 miles a day) will keep you from becoming depressed. Plus it's great for your body
Had a break plan B. Spoke with her for about 10 min. She asked if I really want to split the kids up, preying on my emotions. I told WW that these past 3 months were her selfish decisions/actions based on having an A. So, in short I'm not splitting up the kids/family she is. WW told me she might have cervical cancer and I told her I'll pray for her and that I'm done talking to her. Conversation was about 10 minutes. She tried to prolong it and I halted that. I'm so looking forward to the court date can't wait to get my DS back and hopefully she will also relinquish my SS as well so they aren't split up as she says. Are there any other Dr. H books I can read to help me with this situation? Any good parenting books you recommend?
DSC, keep the hard edge. Every time she wants to trot out her "Woe is me!" crap, fix the image of WW, to facilitate her getting poked by POSOM, spiriting your children away and exporting them to a third-world location.
Your Plan B should be easier than most to maintain.
Well had another slipped today she had SIL text me that I need to pay for my sons plane ticket to the court date if I want to see him. LOL I told her I'm not sending any money cause I don't know if it's goin to a plane ticket or not. Also, I didn't send him there you took DS and the court ordered you to have him back on 25SEP12 and you didn't comply. She also says she can't afford it and she doesn't have a car in PR or any money. I told her it was her own fault not mine. She said she has to go back to PR and then back to USA on the 31 OCT because of thr domestic battery charge. If she had somewhere to stay then she wouldnt have to. Hinting I should let her stay in the marital home LOL. Then she said I need to pay her money cause she is entitled to my money LOL. I told her you left I'm not obligated to pay you anything go to court and good luck with that. She got mad and hung up. I called back to talk to my kids.
She wouldn't let me and said she went to base legal and they said she is entitled to my money and they will contact my command LOL. Then I asked her why she left with our kids and she said "So, you can see the marriage is over!" I said I still had hope for our marriage and she shouted "I hate you!" then hung up crying. She then called back this time with my SS on the phone sayin that he hate me as well. That hurt but I know he doesnt mean it she is using him as a weapon against me.
I told SS ask mommy where she was when you and DS where in puerto Rico. Also, ask her if she is talking to OM still. WW put him off the phone and hung up. At this point I would usually be mad and sad but I'm not I'm calm. Call center prepared me for this and it works. 15th is almost here and I will have my son again. SS is another story I know he love being in PR cause he's not going to school has been out since 20SEP and they are spoiling him rotten. Sent text to SIL/MIL this is the last time I text them if they need anything to call my father regarding my kids. Praying that all goes according to plan.
1. Plan b WW 2. Get custody of my DS/file for D 3. Get child support from WW 4. Find a way to get SS from WW 5. Maintain plan B with little breaks as possible avoid LBs in interaction with WW. 6. Go to court in her domestic battery charge and tell the truth without concern of WW welfare. 7. Attend parenting classes 8. Attend anger managment classes 9. Get certified as a foster parent 10. Focus on ME exercise/college/advancement in USN career/ attend church/ pray for WW defogging and reconciliation.
Please let me know if I need to add anything to my list. Also, I didnt shout and show emotion during conversation. Avoided LBs repeated in my head; "Cooler heads prevail, Her words are not her words jus words of an addict who is in an affair. NG I do that when she wants a pity party I remind her that it's her actions that got her there. All the while, thinking about her in the hotel with POSOM. I asked her again why she was in the hotel that POSOM made a reservation for and paid for. She told me he didnt show up and she was there with MIL lol. I said how did the kids get to PR by themselves? You said your mom flew with them there and when I was @ the hotel confronting her I didn't see MIL at all. Lies in a fog sound so ridiculous I wonder do WS every hear the crap they say.
There is ZERO chance she's showing up at the court date with either child, and she's likely to not show up herself.
What "boots on the ground" do you have in PR to track her movements toward bolting to any jurisdiction with unfriendly relations to the US, one which would be very interested in giving "refuge" to a US service-woman fleeing the onerous abuse of the militaristic male-chauvinist gangsters of the USA? Think: Venezuela or Cuba. Is there some sort of "no-flight" enforcement the government can help you with?
Man, I can see bad things in your future if you continue to put all trust in the "system".
I am really glad to see your strength DSC. WOW!!!! Keep it up. One thing, try to keep the kids out of any conversation about who she is with. I would probably have done the same thing, but by doing so, you put your SS in an awful situation. He is loyal to his mom no matter what. He also loves you very much and wants to be loyal to you. But, as you can see he is going to be more loyal to his mother. He is too young to take on any of this guilt. She is an awful woman for putting her son in that situation in the first place. Her talking to him about the need to hate you is so sad and unacceptable. Having him call you to TELL you is deplorable. Look at the turmoil she is putting him in? Look at what she is teaching him. Then, she made him act on her teaching!!! Keep notes here DSC. Use this in your artillery against her.
She can't get a passport HDW provided me a link to lock his passport. Also, I have military friends still in Puerto Rico. I got the reserve center there tracking her movements. If she doesn't show to court then I will go to PR using them, local police and NCIS to get my son back using the court order that's valid in all territories and 50 states. I got my bases covered legally. I think since she hasn't been compliant with the order of protection they might arrest her or fine her. IDC either not my problem. This is tough but I still see the light at the end of the tunnel just gotta stay my course! God bless you all.
If she is arrested would you be able to take custody of your SS? He is in a very unsafe situation with her. It would be best not to split the kids up. Any chance you can prove her unfit and get both children? Your home is your SS's home, any hope there?
I second that. Remember, you can't educate a wayward.
I learned this the hard way ... I gave my wifes mom (who was wayward) a copy of HNHN and it only confirmed to her that her hubby was not meant for her. BIG mistake That was. Wayward grandma is now going to marry her AP
If she is arrested would you be able to take custody of your SS? He is in a very unsafe situation with her. It would be best not to split the kids up. Any chance you can prove her unfit and get both children? Your home is your SS's home, any hope there?
The best hope right now is Child Protective Services. They can place emergency orders. If the child is not receiving education then they will hopefully step in. The important thing is to call every day the ss is not in school.
Well had another slipped today she had SIL text me that I need to pay for my sons plane ticket to the court date if I want to see him. LOL I told her I'm not sending any money cause I don't know if it's goin to a plane ticket or not. Also, I didn't send him there you took DS and the court ordered you to have him back on 25SEP12 and you didn't comply. She also says she can't afford it and she doesn't have a car in PR or any money. I told her it was her own fault not mine. She said she has to go back to PR and then back to USA on the 31 OCT because of thr domestic battery charge. If she had somewhere to stay then she wouldnt have to. Hinting I should let her stay in the marital home LOL. Then she said I need to pay her money cause she is entitled to my money LOL. I told her you left I'm not obligated to pay you anything go to court and good luck with that. She got mad and hung up. I called back to talk to my kids.
She wouldn't let me and said she went to base legal and they said she is entitled to my money and they will contact my command LOL. Then I asked her why she left with our kids and she said "So, you can see the marriage is over!" I said I still had hope for our marriage and she shouted "I hate you!" then hung up crying. She then called back this time with my SS on the phone sayin that he hate me as well. That hurt but I know he doesnt mean it she is using him as a weapon against me.
I told SS ask mommy where she was when you and DS where in puerto Rico. Also, ask her if she is talking to OM still. WW put him off the phone and hung up. At this point I would usually be mad and sad but I'm not I'm calm. Call center prepared me for this and it works. 15th is almost here and I will have my son again. SS is another story I know he love being in PR cause he's not going to school has been out since 20SEP and they are spoiling him rotten. Sent text to SIL/MIL this is the last time I text them if they need anything to call my father regarding my kids. Praying that all goes according to plan.
1. Plan b WW 2. Get custody of my DS/file for D 3. Get child support from WW 4. Find a way to get SS from WW 5. Maintain plan B with little breaks as possible avoid LBs in interaction with WW. 6. Go to court in her domestic battery charge and tell the truth without concern of WW welfare. 7. Attend parenting classes 8. Attend anger managment classes 9. Get certified as a foster parent 10. Focus on ME exercise/college/advancement in USN career/ attend church/ pray for WW defogging and reconciliation.
Please let me know if I need to add anything to my list. Also, I didnt shout and show emotion during conversation. Avoided LBs repeated in my head; "Cooler heads prevail, Her words are not her words jus words of an addict who is in an affair. NG I do that when she wants a pity party I remind her that it's her actions that got her there. All the while, thinking about her in the hotel with POSOM. I asked her again why she was in the hotel that POSOM made a reservation for and paid for. She told me he didnt show up and she was there with MIL lol. I said how did the kids get to PR by themselves? You said your mom flew with them there and when I was @ the hotel confronting her I didn't see MIL at all. Lies in a fog sound so ridiculous I wonder do WS every hear the crap they say.
Until you are in plan B you need to just say: "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage where both of our needs are met" Phone arguments don't help anything. If possible avoid contact with her
I tried HDW but in order to talk to my DS & SS. I have to talk to her otherwise she keeps them from me. I feel so bad for my SS. I will have my son back but he will have to endure her fogged out thinking without intervention. SS hasn't been in school for 3 weeks! That's inexcusable! When the courts give me custody of DS I know she won't give me SS willingly. I want to continue to have contact with him. Any suggestions? Should I write letters? I obviously can't call. Anyone had to deal with SS having to stay with WW? Could use some veteran advice on this.
I tried HDW but in order to talk to my DS & SS. I have to talk to her otherwise she keeps them from me. I feel so bad for my SS. I will have my son back but he will have to endure her fogged out thinking without intervention. SS hasn't been in school for 3 weeks! That's inexcusable! When the courts give me custody of DS I know she won't give me SS willingly. I want to continue to have contact with him. Any suggestions? Should I write letters? I obviously can't call. Anyone had to deal with SS having to stay with WW? Could use some veteran advice on this.
She will go to juvenile court if he isn't in school soon. It is not optional. She can actually be jailed for not having him in school. This will cause more referrals to CPS. It wouldn't hurt to write letters to your step son.
I'm in need of some encouragement guys and gals. Sitting in the marital home alone surrounded by memories have me depressed. Especially since I miss my family so much. Just in need of some reassurance I'm doing the right thing. For court on the 15th and hopefully get my son and on 31st I have court on the domestic battery charge. This don't show I care about WW act when I really do is hard as he-double hockey sticks. Anyone out there following my thread that had it worse than me actually recover their marriage and love? Would like some inspirational stories right now. It's also strange that I have multiple women hitting on me and I turn them down left and right because I'm "married". I can't stop thinking of WW whenever I see a woman. This feeling sucks. My family and friends are very supportive and say I'm doing the right thing but they don't understand why I am still willing to save the marriage, is that normal as well? All in all my goal is to get my DS and SS but I'd be lying if I said I don't want to save my marriage as well. Thanks for given a broken man advice, god bless you all.
Hi DSC. No advice except to stay the course. My WH has done really hurtful things too and I still feel like I want to recover the marriage some days. But he doesn't and I have to face that fact. Maybe he will sometime in the future..not holding my breath though.
Good for you for not getting into a relationshiip right now. It's the honorable thing to do. I think you will be alright once the court stuff is settled and you have some time to heal away from all the craziness.
My family and friends are very supportive and say I'm doing the right thing but they don't understand why I am still willing to save the marriage, is that normal as well?
Been getting the same thing. Hard to get them to understand. I could just be in a phase right now, but I've reached the point where I can't see a R possible anymore since my WW continues to carry on in her A with no concern for what it's doing to me and DD.
Been following your thread, and I think you're doing great. Stay strong and focused on what you want! I keep checking in to see if you've got your boys back yet. I hope you get them soon. I can't imagine being in that position with my DD. I've been with her all day every day since she was born.
The hardest part is accepting that your spouse doesn't want to remain with you - that she is choosing someone else over you, over your family, throwing away everything you have shared together. The hope that you have that she will have a break in her fog, realize what she has done, come home to you to be a family is a double edged sword. I encourage you to ACCEPT what it is NOW. She has gone to some pretty extrordinary lengths to "be happy", so you NEED to set her free. I know you don't want to hear that, but you can't MAKE her want you, your family, what you could have. You also can't protect her from herself and her awful decisions. However, you can protect your DS and hopefully your SS!!! I know that is where your focus is. So, now, protect yourself. Set her free. Keep re-building your life, becoming the best father you can be, the best man you can be. That doesn't mean that she won't at some point, a year or two from now, realize her mistakes. But, don't hold your breath, or keep hurting yourself by trying to hold on to her. She clearly wants something else. You deserve better than what she has done to you. How she has done it is just completely delporable. Take back your life and give all your concern to yourself and the kids. She isn't concerned about you DSC. So, back to the tough part of accepting that horrible truth and choosing to close that chapter, for now or for however long it needs to be closed to not take your strength and energy and hurt you. I feel sorry for her. She will wake up one day and tell herself that she let a good one go. But, just know that YOU deserve better.
Hang in there. MB will help you do everything you can to save your marriage if you follow the plans. This is not a guarantee of course, but either way one day you will either have a recovered marriage or you will be proud that you did everything you could to fight for your marriage and that you went down swinging. Your WW will realize this some day. And importantly, so will your kids.
Thanks for your kind words. I am determined to get my kids back and not to make this divorce easy for her. I will not let WW get away with highway robbery in order to feed her addiction. I told her countless times and once I have full custody of my son I know she will realize this isn't a game and wake up. If not I will be prepared to handle the fact she is broken. I have a chance of full custody and 0 visits for the WW for 2 years. I hope I get that then I can focus on this D and my son. I know she doesn't have the money to fight me head on and I will put her on child support. Got a bank statement. POSOM gave her 1000 dollars and she used that to whisk my children away and be with him in he hotel. I am so ANGRY with her and this scumbag! I know his plan is to throw money around so she feels like she owes him. I'm going to go to the gym and workout this frustration so it doesn't translate into court. WW beyond stupid at this moment the POSOM has 7 kids and he throwing money at another mans wife. SMH will reflect on this after I beat my self up in the weight room.
Order of protection court told me if she doesn't show to this court date I can get it extended for 2 years. If she does show she will be held in contempt because she violated the order which was to give me my son on 25 September. CPS said they can't do anything because she is out of the country but I call them 3x a week to let them know SS isn't in school. When I went before the judge she said it will likely go in my favor because she took the kids without my permission and has no just cause to do so. Because she is the one with the domestic violence charge not me and I have an order protection against her so she is the stressor and I'm the victim. She has court for the charge on 31 October and I will tell my story initially I wanted to lie so she wouldn't get arrested but after some advice from people on this forum and following the concept of not protecting the WW from the consequences of her OWN actions I decided to tell the truth about what happened that day. I'm scared cause I know this might blow my chances on a R for the marriage but its not my fault she hit me and according to the principles on this site she will see that eventually or not. Also, custody wise it helps me and I have to put the kids 1st before this marriage.
SIL speaking on WW behalf claiming she needs money so she can get to court. This is getting ridiculous by the day is this behavior normal for WWs. When BH was breadwinner? I know the answer but I'm going to ask should i send her money lol. Also tomorrow is court getting my documents ready and preparing for the return of my DS and hopefully SS. I do believe this working in my favor custody and reconciliation. I read the logs on FRs and I'm not planning on taking her back so soon. Shout out to HDW and NG thanks for giving me a backbone. Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice! God bless you all!
SIL speaking on WW behalf claiming she needs money so she can get to court. This is getting ridiculous by the day is this behavior normal for WWs. When BH was breadwinner? I know the answer but I'm going to ask should i send her money lol. Also tomorrow is court getting my documents ready and preparing for the return of my DS and hopefully SS. I do believe this working in my favor custody and reconciliation. I read the logs on FRs and I'm not planning on taking her back so soon. Shout out to HDW and NG thanks for giving me a backbone. Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice! God bless you all!
DCS you certainly suggested this to the SIL didn't you?
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Got a bank statement. POSOM gave her 1000 dollars and she used that to whisk my children away and be with him in he hotel. I am so ANGRY with her and this scumbag! I know his plan is to throw money around so she feels like she owes him.
Hmmmm.....POSOM should provide that need. He better pony up. WW's with baggage are expensive! Maybe her needs just aren't as important as his.
I'll not accept any kudos until this all settles out, and you at least have DS at home. I still think WW has one more unplayed ruse in lieu of showing up in court. Possibly checking into hospital for her mostly mythical illness? (Why mythical? Remember, the GOOD die young. Skanks live distressingly long lives!) Possibly cooking up the old "fearful for the safety of my dear children" stew?
Tomorrow will reveal a lot, my friend. I hope your faith is right, and my doubts are wrong!
Thinking about you DSC. Oh boy, you're WW has made quite a bed for herself, huh? And for what?
I'm sure you noticed that no one answered your question about whether or not you should send money for her return to face you and the court for her transgressions.
Don't do anything that rescues her from her wayward consequences...don't lie for her, don't send her money. She needs to face the consequences of her actions and SHE needs to pony up! Don't enable her by trying to make things easier for her.
Well they granted a week continuance because she got served divorce papers. She is in the same city as me and she look worse for wear. My son looked bad and is terribly sick has strep. So on the 24th OCT we go before the judge again. They let her keep him till then. I'm so mad the legal system sucks! The fog broke when she got served divorce papers. She started to cry my attorney said. Also, as we were leaving I parked far from her and DS saw me. He must've of said there's daddy and begged to come see me and she came. Violating the order! I stayed in the car while my friend brought DS to me. Spent 15 min with him while she stood there crying. I don't know why she was crying could it have been remorse? I dunno. POSOM where's no where to be seen. I'm not sure if he's here or not. She told my friends she was staying with my SSGT I have yet to confirm this. I'm praying this is the truth. I believe that he's out of the picture and she realized he's a POS. no proof tho ill keep you guys updated. Oh I was stoic no emotion was shown. Thanks for the advice guys? God bless
I am sorry about the continuance. I am greatful that you were able to see your son...even for a little while.........it makes no sense why the courts make the decisions they do sometimes. Things have a way of working themselves out....keep greasing the wheel.
Yeah, that continuance does suck, but the bright side is it gave you a glimpse into what WW has dumped on herself. I actually feel very sorry for her. This addiction has cost her so much more than she ever bargained for.
DSC, I would do everything in my power to confirm where she is staying, assuming you still want to try and make a go of this.
One question keeps popping into my mind though: Her "sister" has been hounding you to send money so she can get back to court from wherever the hell she was.
I'm thinking she wanted me to send some money so she could head back to Puerto Rico and go back and forth. Now she doesn't have the money to go back and has to stay till the court is over. I'm going to drive around tonite to see if I see the car I bought parked where I think she is.
I'm thinking she wanted me to send some money so she could head back to Puerto Rico and go back and forth. Now she doesn't have the money to go back and has to stay till the court is over. I'm going to drive around tonite to see if I see the car I bought parked where I think she is.
Not eating much sleep very little. Been hitting the gym WW noticed it so that's a plus I guess. She cried when my lawyer sered her papers and when I was with DS. Lawyer said I should have custody at this hearing. I'm pretty sure she is going to show up at the marital house and try to talk to me or something before the court date. I won't entertain it but will VAR it.
Update: I need some advice. Trying to ignore my instincts at he moment. Went to work and my senior enlisted leader (SEL) told me that his wife talked to WW and that WW has been staying at his house while me and SEL were away for a field op. WW currently there now and told SEL wife that she had no place to go and was going to a shelter if she couldn't stay there. WW and SEL wife are friends and while the affair was a EA I told my WW to talk to her for some advice. Of course WW didn't now she burned so many bridges she uses the SEL wife to have a place to stay.
I'm upset that the SEL wife told SEL not to let me know where WW/DS are. I'm relieved that POSOM isn't here and that my son and WW are in a safe place. My SEL is an ally in this and knows the whole story. However, I do not know where his wife stands friend or foe. My question is how can I switch this in my favor? I'm sure that WW is rockbottom now.
According to the philosophies here the WW reaches out for recovery right? Not the other way around? I hope this works out for me for my DS/SS sakes. Also for WW even though she is low on the priority list as of now. This is hardest thing I ever done knowing that my "wife" and family are hurting and I can't do anything to help or stop it.
You are doing great, be strong! If memory serves the WS needs to hit rock bottom, even though it may seem like she is there, that may not be the case. Do not assume that is where she is. The advice you got about do nothing to rescue her is spot on, this means NOTHING. Yes she needs to be the one to ask for recovery. Sounds like your sons need medical attention, I would think your attorney could leverage that, as well as them not being in school. Your attorney should have made a huge issue of that during the hearing yesterday, and he needs to make it a huge issue next monday.
TEARS? Awwww, did little Skanky really cry? Real, salty tears? Makes me want to break down all weepy as well!
Dude, without the tears, does she get the continuance? Without them does she get free lodging with sympathetic acquaintances? Does she get you start thinking all nostalgic about "what was, and what may be again"?
If there were any humanity within that Skanky, she'd not have waited to the last day to return your DS to your presence, She'd not have kept DS from you. She'd not be continuing to isolate them from school and their normal life. Let's be honest here: If it proves out that she truly is ill (which I very much doubt), I'm actually going to feel sorry for the cancer which has a bad case of "Skanky".
Update: I need some advice. Trying to ignore my instincts at he moment. Went to work and my senior enlisted leader (SEL) told me that his wife talked to WW and that WW has been staying at his house while me and SEL were away for a field op. WW currently there now and told SEL wife that she had no place to go and was going to a shelter if she couldn't stay there. WW and SEL wife are friends and while the affair was a EA I told my WW to talk to her for some advice. Of course WW didn't now she burned so many bridges she uses the SEL wife to have a place to stay.
I'm upset that the SEL wife told SEL not to let me know where WW/DS are. I'm relieved that POSOM isn't here and that my son and WW are in a safe place. My SEL is an ally in this and knows the whole story. However, I do not know where his wife stands friend or foe. My question is how can I switch this in my favor? I'm sure that WW is rockbottom now.
According to the philosophies here the WW reaches out for recovery right? Not the other way around? I hope this works out for me for my DS/SS sakes. Also for WW even though she is low on the priority list as of now. This is hardest thing I ever done knowing that my "wife" and family are hurting and I can't do anything to help or stop it.
This is a self created problem for your ww. She is choosing to have an affair and breaking up your family. Be advised she will probably tell all types of lies to your friend to persuade them that you are a dangerous man.
My SEL is an ally in this and knows the whole story. However, I do not know where his wife stands friend or foe.
I would ask SEL if he knows what his wifes feelings were directly. His gut feeling.
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My question is how can I switch this in my favor?
No idea how you can use this in your favor at thispoint. Did SEL let his wife know he told you or did he just do it on his own?
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I'm sure that WW is rockbottom now.
I wouldn't bet any money on this. WW's are not predictable. There may be some other "Nice Good Guy" out there that may take her in with her sob story....Just to help her out you know....Easy pickins for a low life.
DCS are you officially in Plan B or is the RO the only reason for no contact? Either way do you have an IM or contact set up so you can get messages concerning the children or emergencies?
Does she have any type of road map provided by you as to what is required for you to consider R with her? I know you filed and she was served. Does she even know you would be open to R provided certain reqirements are met?
What plan do you consider yourself in at this point? B/C/or FU?
I am in plan b the RO was used to get my DS back. I sent a plan b letter from the site my IM is my father. She used it today cause DS was sick. She knows what she can do to start recovery and if she is willing she is supposed to risk legal consequences and contact me directly or use my dad as an IM. Going to run extra hard tomorrow got a lot of stress to burn off. Thanks for your support, everyone god bless!
Well things are ok got court next week. WW expressed remorse for her actions through my IM/dad. Seems to want recovery but I am leary. Haven't actually talked to WW will go through legal stuff first. Running more and more and put on 2 lbs of muscle. Spent sometime with DS he misses his daddy. SS is still in Puerto Rico talked to him he is in school for English speaking kids. It's a garbage school that meets for 3 hours a day. I'm upset about that. Hopefully four goes m way.
Well she was told to leave by SEL wife. My DS gave SEL wife his illness and SEL wife got the whole story. Her reaction was why don't POSOM pay for her? She called me and we talked, another breach! I called the police and they wouldn't give me my DS even tho WW has no place to stay. Long story short I ended up getting a hotel for my WW and DS. I'm very mad about this but I have 0 choice she was taking my DS to a shelter. Kept hotel receipts for proof of court. WW claims she not talking to POSOM which I believe is a lie but don't care. Keep telling myself I'm doing this for my son and after court date and I get custody she is on her own. Family, friends are supporting me. I can't wait till court so I have 0 reason to help her, pleas pray for me...
So why are you putting wife up in hotel? Couldn't you just offer to take DS since she is homeless, and if SHE refuses to give him to you, let that look bad on her? If you demonstrate you can support her in this way it may hurt you in the long run. Do you have a lawyer? What is your legal advice at this point?
My lawyer told me it would look bad if I took him so she said to get the hotel and keep receipts of the hotel. If I were to let her go to a shelter it would look bad as well. I hate doing it this but that's the legal advice. Meanwhile POSOM in his home 1000 miles away living peacefully, I really hate this situation I hope this wont hurt my plans because I would like to reconcile but legally I shouldn't have any legal repercussions.
Well I got granted temporary custody of DS! Got another continuance due to the fact they transferred he case to the wrong judge and the judge today had too many cases on his dockett. WW was crying and so forth she called me and stated she wants to give me fill custody and her affair isn't worth all this. Apparently the IG contacted her command about th adultery. She is rock bottom now I believe and is rethinking her life I guess. I hope she realizes the problems and damage she caused our family. She is staying with my sister while she is here for court and such. My sister said she will talk to her about the state of the marriage I also made it clear that I didn't set this up for her! That my sister is doing that on her own! Personally I want her to come back and reconcile because she wants to not because its convient. I have t heard from her since the court date this morning I don't know if she is talking to POSOM. I think she is though I don't have confirmation other than her word she isn't. I think that loser realized after the IG contacted his command that S..t got real and backed off of my WW. She also said she is going to seek psychiatric help and read SAA. I told her don't tell me anything just do it! She saying the right stuff but I seem 0 action! I'll pray for her and hope she sees the light but till then ill focus on my son and myself. SS still with MIL and I don't know what WW plans are regarding that thank you all and god bless.
Well I'm happy I have DS. Got intel that WW is going to see POSOM. I'm so mad and happy at the same time. Happy I have DS and mad that she is planning this while our family is in shambles. She plans on leaving the 26th. My question is should I confront her, I don't know what to do. Really need some advice on this.
Well I'm happy I have DS. Got intel that WW is going to see POSOM. I'm so mad and happy at the same time. Happy I have DS and mad that she is planning this while our family is in shambles. She plans on leaving the 26th. My question is should I confront her, I don't know what to do. Really need some advice on this.
What did her command say would be the consequences of her continued contact with OM?
Through some snooping I got the iterinary (sp?). I'm not sure of the consequences her command told her but I'm sure it's severe. I'm going to show up at the airport with DS have him tell mommy bye and let her explain why she feels the need to hurt our family so much for an A with a POS. At that point she has a choice to make leave or stay. I give up trying to understand how a mother can lose custody of her son and keep the other with her mother who doesn't care about her and spend money to see another man while she is married! How can you fathom thinking about lust when the 3 important men in your life are suffering because of your actions?! Any xWW help me with this? Is this a good plan to have?
Another thing that baffles me is her father did the same thing to her mom; abandoned his family to pursue women and drugs. You would think that growing up knowing that you wouldn't repeat the same mistakes or try your HARDEST to fix your marriage/relationship when you realize it. ARGH! I hate this and I hate this person that is my "wife" and this POSOM that society calls a man when he doesn't deserve the privilege to be called one!
I really feel for you DSC. You are so strong. Just focus on the fact that YOU are getting stronger and doing the best you can, and pray that you continue along that path. You have your precious son back!!! YEAH!! Focus on him and your lives now. The hardest part is not being able to control the other person so they don't do the things they do, so they don't destroy EVERYTHING!!! You can see it, but she can't, and because she is her own person, you can't control her. Awful, isn't it?!!!!!! I hope you can put her "aside" right now, bc you have a lot of work cut out for you to make sure that your son is safe and secure emotionally in all of this. I would think that doing that while you are emotionally crushed right now is enough to keep you busy for a while! You are soooo fortunate to have your son back. Now you can protect yourself and your son from her actions.
Great update on getting your son!!! I wouldn't bring him to the airport because that would just upset him, and he needs to be your focus now, not your WW. There is nothing else you can do at this point to get her back. So keep your son in your mind, and don't do anything that would make this worse for him, it's bad enough what his mom has done.
Through some snooping I got the iterinary (sp?). I'm not sure of the consequences her command told her but I'm sure it's severe. I'm going to show up at the airport with DS have him tell mommy bye and let her explain why she feels the need to hurt our family so much for an A with a POS. At that point she has a choice to make leave or stay. I give up trying to understand how a mother can lose custody of her son and keep the other with her mother who doesn't care about her and spend money to see another man while she is married! How can you fathom thinking about lust when the 3 important men in your life are suffering because of your actions?! Any xWW help me with this? Is this a good plan to have?
Another thing that baffles me is her father did the same thing to her mom; abandoned his family to pursue women and drugs. You would think that growing up knowing that you wouldn't repeat the same mistakes or try your HARDEST to fix your marriage/relationship when you realize it. ARGH! I hate this and I hate this person that is my "wife" and this POSOM that society calls a man when he doesn't deserve the privilege to be called one!
ITA with BH...forward it to their commands. The military does not like this sort of thing and having OM/WW being IN the military is the greatest gift--for your exposure and chances at ending the affair.
Let's see how much OM likes being suspended or possibly even kicked out.
Absolutely agree! You are fortunately provided with an ally in the fight you're in DSC - the United States Armed Forces, which has the power to compel adherence to a code of behavior, denied to the rest of us. Do not be too proud to use such assistance.
Quite perfectly, I'd want the MPs to be at the departure gate enforcing the "stand down" order!
Oh I did that but I'm not sure how it will help. His command and her command are doing an investigation (they are in different units). WW was supposed to have left to see POSOM in FL by plane today but out of the blue yesterday she called me and claimed she canceled the flight and isn't going. Do I believe that, hell no. Do I hope its true? Yes but the odds don't favor that. She still hasn't agreed to R so I am going into a very DARK Plan B. WW hasn't signed divorce papers either and doesn't have a lawyer. I have hope for my marriage but at this point its, whatever. WW was crying and saying I have god on my side and I will my way. I told her I want my family and its not my way its what is right, plain and simple. Reading the stories on here about others plights and how they were overcome by sticking to the PLAN A AND B made me even more hopeful and deteremined to ignore her foolishness and fog babble and carry forth! I am determined and strong enough to stay the course! Thanks for your advice everyone, I am off to spend time with my DS! God bless! Updates coming soon!
Yea since my WW so fit to leave town to see POSOM when she doesn't have custody of DS and SS. I decided to change my name to reflect how my Plan b should go. Also, I told her about SAA and if she reads and has a break in the fog she might come to the site. Don't want her to see my thread until she has realized her mistake. If she is reading this: Hi, I'm here trying to save our marriage get on board!
SS is with MIL in Puerto Rico, DS is with me. I believe she is FL with POSOM. It's crazy I know and I find her behavior to be very unlike her which is normal for WW I assume
SS is with MIL in Puerto Rico, DS is with me. I believe she is FL with POSOM. It's crazy I know and I find her behavior to be very unlike her which is normal for WW I assume
Yup all that is done. As for myself I'm taking all kinds of classes in parenting, anger management, and cooking. Preparing myself for single dad life. Good post BH. Really helped me rethink some things. At this point my focus is my DS and myself. I just pray everything else follows.
Another sleepless night. Today DS cried cause he wants WW and SS home with us. I held him while he cried and distracted him with Halloween talk. Despite what's going on I always let DS talk to WW via phone. Once again I am baffled how someone I knew and loved could do this to their own child and husband. I have so much anger and contempt for POSOM. I mean seething anger! It sucks cause its cold and I can't just go outside and run when I'm mad like this and you can only do so many push ups till your arms don't work LOL.
I read a post by someone on another thread that WW look at POSOM as a new Xmas toy and eventually it gets old and they come back to the old toys because they have history and are more reliable. I hope that is my case and that I'm not second choice but the best choice. For our kids sakes. Done venting, I guess going to try to take my butt to bed. God bless!
You are being quite generous. That how they start out, eventually they turn into a badly behaved dog that destroys all your other toys, and rips your house apart.
Well, as long as you're all "push-up'd" ("pushed-up"?) out, instead of sitting there freezing and sulking, how about getting to work?
You appear to think you and WW have a future together. Okay, put together, and post here, the list of ACTIONS (not utterences, nor feelings) that WW is going to have to perform/demonstrate before you merely open the door to even discuss such an act of forgiveness. Not only actions, but the degree to which she must perform them, the level of transparency she will have to do them by, and the timeframne to which they must be done.
Think: job-change; apologies to all family members; total withdrawal from her mother/accessory; post-nuptial agreement; surrender of all credit cards and access to funds; giving up her passport to your control, etc, etc.
> A full confession to me and mutual friends and kids > A sincere, remorseful apology to kids friends and family > Why you think this happened (name the problem on both sides --you've got to name it to claim it) > A detailed recovery plan (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it) > Proof you're working a 12-step program for addiction > See a psychiatrist for your personal issues. > Proof is required on demand. >NC letter to POSOM > enroll in a MB program together >read all Dr. H books >legal agreement where the kids don't leave without my permission > no more OS friends > complete transparency; no Facebook or social networking > change units
Dude! Where did you get the supply of "nice guy" pills?
> A full confession to me and mutual friends and kids > A sincere, remorseful apology to kids friends and family > Why you think this happened (name the problem on both sides --you've got to name it to claim it)Waste of time, and gives her "spin" opportunity > A detailed recovery plan (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it) You drive the bus, TD, so: Follow to 100% compliance the recovery plan TD defines > Proof you're working a 12-step program for addiction > See a psychiatrist for your personal issues. > Proof is required on demand. > NC letter to POSOM > enroll in a follow the MB program together > readfollow all Dr. H books I can READ a Superman comic, but still can't "leap over tall buildings in a single bound" - it takes me TWO > legal agreement where the kids don't leave without my permissionUnenforceable, as long as she remains a custodial parent, so: Give up custody of DS to you, exclusively > no more OS friends > complete transparency; no Facebook or social networking And, all passwords to private and work IDs. If work cannot accommodate your access, she changes jobs > change units
> STD test > verification of her "illness" story > MIL? Passport? Access to funds?
NG thanks for editing my list. Revising it now. Dude! Where did you get the supply of "nice guy" pills?
> A full confession to me and mutual friends and kids > A sincere, remorseful apology to kids friends and family > Why you think this happened (name the problem on both sides --you've got to name it to claim it) Waste of time, and gives her "spin" opportunity > A detailed recovery plan (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it) You drive the bus, TD, so: Follow to 100% compliance the recovery plan TD defines > Proof you're working a 12-step program for addiction > See a psychiatrist for your personal issues. > Proof is required on demand. > NC letter to POSOM > enroll in a follow the MB program together > read follow all Dr. H books I can READ a Superman comic, but still can't "leap over tall buildings in a single bound" - it takes me TWO > legal agreement where the kids don't leave without my permission Unenforceable, as long as she remains a custodial parent, so: Give up custody of DS to you, exclusively > no more OS friends > complete transparency; no Facebook or social networking And, all passwords to private and work IDs. If work cannot accommodate your access, she changes jobs > change units
> STD test > verification of her "illness" story got verification I'm medical in the army used my networking skills she needs to have an extensive test it's not confirmed yet. > MIL? Passport? Access to funds? She doesn't have access sons passport is locked I forgot about the MIL she is out of our lives for at least 8-10years
I think you will end up in the same place I am: Divorce.
There comes a point where there has to be SOME trust. Her behaviors can be explained as "being in the fog" or "mental illness" but the fact is she tried to kidnap your son. This actually happens often. The difference is that you acted as a man and not a pushover wimp.
Things will get better the more you are away from her toxicity. And I would stop the son-mother phone calls and try to shield your son from her behaviors.
I am proud of your actions through all of this and I encourage you to stay the course, don't settle for crumbs because life is short and too precious to be your wife's parole officer in marriage for the rest of your life.
(if it wasn't for the fact she removed your kids from the States I would see a possibility of rebuilding some trust. But that crosses the line. In my case my wife accused me of drugging her, kidnapping and raping her. And she also hid the kids from me. In the end I prevailed thanks to a GAL in divorce court - make certain you request a GAL. And I would advocate divorce now (without delay) ; in a custody evaluation she will just appear crazy and help your case, plus waywards in love are willing to give up more in court during an affair)
I strongly encourage you to listen to Notthwood and NeverGuesse for regular reality checks.
She isn't devious. She's stupid. There is a difference. The court gave him custody because of her irrational behavior. It's the fight or flight reaction. She quit her job and ran off to PR. She will not fight in court if he has a good attorney.
She isn't devious. She's stupid. There is a difference. The court gave him custody because of her irrational behavior. It's the fight or flight reaction. She quit her job and ran off to PR. She will not fight in court if he has a good attorney.
Where did she quit her job HDW? She still is in her unit. One of his conditions for recovery is to change units.
She took the kids to PR before she was to do a training session.
She got fired from Walmart due to absences. She is still with her unit but she is reserve. It would be easy for her to put that on hold for 2 years so we can reconcile. She is running away cause she is ashamed of what she is doing with the POSOM. Nevertheless I will focus on me and DS. When she talks to DS it's on speakerphone so I can make sure she isn't crossing lines. They issued a warrant for her arrest because she is with POSOM and didn't come back for her court date. She is currently shacked up with him and supposed to be back for our custody court date. Honestly, by the end of the year she will be back and ready to reconcile.
She got fired from Walmart due to absences. She is still with her unit but she is reserve. It would be easy for her to put that on hold for 2 years so we can reconcile. She is running away cause she is ashamed of what she is doing with the POSOM. Nevertheless I will focus on me and DS. When she talks to DS it's on speakerphone so I can make sure she isn't crossing lines. They issued a warrant for her arrest because she is with POSOM and didn't come back for her court date. She is currently shacked up with him and supposed to be back for our custody court date. Honestly, by the end of the year she will be back and ready to reconcile.
Sir please stop predicting your wife's behavior or explaining it.
How often does she call? Or is the boy calling her?
She calls I don't answer because its 10pm at nite. I know she just wants to talk me and not to DS. Also, she calls when POSOM is at work. In her state it's best she doesn't have contact with DS. I see your point about predicting I should stop that sets myself up for failure. CPS also filed a reckless behavior and neglect charge against her. I will have custody for sure. My heart really goes out to SS. I'm sure she will be back and ready for R. The only thing that is going to prevent that is me. I feel at that point I will be done and not willing to R.
She calls I don't answer because its 10pm at nite. I know she just wants to talk me and not to DS. Also, she calls when POSOM is at work. In her state it's best she doesn't have contact with DS. I see your point about predicting I should stop that sets myself up for failure. CPS also filed a reckless behavior and neglect charge against her. I will have custody for sure. My heart really goes out to SS. I'm sure she will be back and ready for R. The only thing that is going to prevent that is me. I feel at that point I will be done and not willing to R.
You are doing a great job. It's a good thing to have Children Svcs on your side. My case was very similar. I had CPS at the house and my wife hated being under the microscope. You said that she is on speakerphone. When do these calls happen?
Even though she is with POSOM believe she is rock bottom. So lets just say she will hit bedrock lol. Eventually she will realize her actions have a cause and effect. Cause she had an affair I had to take these actions to protect my family. Ill pray on this while I play Xbox with DS!
When you ever do talk with her, do you think there could be any way you could use any of this to try to get her to see that she is not the best parent for the step son right now?
Even though she is with POSOM believe she is rock bottom. So lets just say she will hit bedrock lol. Eventually she will realize her actions have a cause and effect. Cause she had an affair I had to take these actions to protect my family. Ill pray on this while I play Xbox with DS!
Did their command give them a no contact order?
Did you inform their command they are together now?
When I talk to her 2 weeks ago she admitted I was the better parent and god will give me what I want cause I'm going to church, got saved and making changes to my life. I told her that means my family will be intact and your going to leave POSOM alone. Then she started crying and expressed her feelings to me. Was a moment of clarity. She is still convinced I treat DS and SS differently SS is with MIL and is getting spoiled everyday. The best place for him is with me but she convinced her family I am abusive to her. So they won't give her SS back cause they think we both bad. She refuses to recant those lies so there is nothing I can do about him. MIL wants custody of both our kids and she gave her the idea of running away to PR with our kids. In PR they usually grant custody to the mother and MIL was banking on that. So I have DS MIL has SS and WW has POSOM. Knowing my WW it's killing her not having her kids and she will fold. POSOM can't meet all her EN. I did and she will realize that.
As I read your latest post TD, I got the most horrible realization. Sometimes there are some people whose holes inside their being just can't be filled. I fear your WW is one of those people. Whatever caused those holes, she is filling with the wrong things. That is typical behavior. We all have fears that create little pockets inside of us, and we all know how powerful those little pockets are. Think about gaping holes. There is no filling them. God can probably do the best work here. She doesn't seem to have God or His direction in her life, so she is filling them with everything material and fleshy. Those things only drain out the other end. They never heal. They just feel good and put a bandaid on the pain for a bit. People with these kinds of holes have affairs, are drug, alcohol, gambling and sex addicts. They go for anything to help themselves feel better. She is really not in control of her life and doesn't seem to see the true reasons why.
Our marriage counselor said that before I found MB. It hurts cause I know she knows this but chooses to ignore it. POSOM in general see this and prey on women like this. I'm not making excuses for her after all she is an adult. Only person who will help her realize that is herself. I haven't given up on her or m marriage but at this point I can't let her run over my heart and disrespect our family.
Our marriage counselor said that before I found MB. It hurts cause I know she knows this but chooses to ignore it. POSOM in general see this and prey on women like this. I'm not making excuses for her after all she is an adult. Only person who will help her realize that is herself. I haven't given up on her or m marriage but at this point I can't let her run over my heart and disrespect our family.
Do their command know they are together right now?
Command still investigating. WW comes in to town today from spending time in POSOM city/home. I have no idea what to expect from her. She doesn't have a place to stay so she will probably be in a hotel. Have court tomorrow to se off OP will be extended for 2 years. I hope it does! WW may have a warrant for missing court. Need some advice! If she offers to R should I take it? I'm leaning towards yes only if she completes 3 things on my list of R to dos for her. NG, ML, HDW! Need your words of wisdom on how to proceed!
Command still investigating. WW comes in to town today from spending time in POSOM city/home. I have no idea what to expect from her. She doesn't have a place to stay so she will probably be in a hotel. Have court tomorrow to se off OP will be extended for 2 years. I hope it does! WW may have a warrant for missing court. Need some advice! If she offers to R should I take it? I'm leaning towards yes only if she completes 3 things on my list of R to dos for her. NG, ML, HDW! Need your words of wisdom on how to proceed!
That's a decision you should only make after careful consideration and prayer. Personally, I offered reconciliation to my wife up until the day of divorce. The requirement was that she would have to agree to follow the MB program. But she was in love with OM and viewed divorce as freedom.
I your wife just returned from marathon sex with OM I doubt she will ask for reconciliation.
One thing that Melody kept telling me in my ordeal which I took to heart was "Keep te bar high".
We will support you no matter what you choose. But as Indiana Jones was told by the knight in the last Crusade, "Choose wisely. Just as the true cup will give you life the false one will take it from you"
Uhhhh, I'd start with checking your laundry basket, because it seems two very important pieces of your anatomy recently became detached while changing your shorts!!!
Let me get this right: Skanky blows back into town, arriving immediately after climbing out of POSOMs bed, possibly having not even adaquately rinsed herself of the remains of their coupling (and all this in defiance of US Military orders to desist), and your reaction is to begin winnowing down the list of almost two dozen "mandates" of recovery actions to THREE, to get recovery started? Is that what I just read?
Just to semd me to the nearest bottle of single-malt, would you inform us which three you've selected?
I see your point guys. She will have to do all steps for recovery. But to start out she needs to do the following.
A full confession > take a polygraph > NC letter to POSOM Give up custody of kids Read and follow Dr. Hs books Do I help her during this? Do we do these things together during the R?
WW, It is with the heaviest of hearts that I write you this letter. I am saddened by what has become of us, our friendship, our marriage. This letter is written to you as a necessity. Allow me to explain.
I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.
I realize that I have not been a perfect husband to you. I see now that both my attitude and financial irresponsibility drove a wedge into our marriage. I apologize to you. You must know that I never intended to hurt you or push you away from me.
The pain that your relationship with *OM* and the relationships that you have had during our marriage has been unimaginable. Continued contact with you has the potential of destroying my love for you and I don't want that to happen.
It is because of this that I must insist that we no longer contact each other, until you are no longer involved with *OM* or anyone else. I ask that you respect my decision. In the event of an emergency, or any necessary financial matters, please contact my dad, mom or my sister, and they will contact me. Once you have ended your relationship with *OM* or anyone else completely, please contact me, and I will be willing to discuss restoring our friendship and marriage.
I am committed to our marriage. I believe that we can build a marriage that is stronger and more beautiful than we have experienced. Beginning today, I walk forward in life, and I want you to walk with me. I love you with all of my heart. I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. With God's help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.
So if you are in plan B you Should have no contact with her anyway. Obviously you will probably see her in court. My court waitin area was a small area and I sat across from my wife. Is your court the same?
I see your point guys. She will have to do all steps for recovery. But to start out she needs to do the following.
A full confession > take a polygraph > NC letter to POSOM Give up custody of kids Read and follow Dr. Hs books Do I help her during this? Do we do these things together during the R?
Has she given you any indication she's even interested in recovery?
She just came back from spending time with OM, correct?
1st step would be to end affair and NC for life with OM and send NC letter.
Dsc, I know it's difficult. I cried many nights missing my wife. It was the saddest time in my life.
What got me through it was saying : I can't control her actions. I can only control my own.
I have full custody of my three kids now. And it's because I made a decision to protect them. My wife was/is in love with a covicted child abuser and sug addict Your wife was/is in love with a scumbag of the same caliber.
My three children needed protection. As do your children.
So just try to focus on providing care for your child. Hopefully you will eventually get custody of step son.
My aunt is a hospice nurse and she told me that she has nursed 40 year old men as they died. She said life is too short to live in misery. And it really is.
BTW you may already be doing this but I carry a copy of my custody order in my wallet.
I have an attorney. Court is this morning, hopefully things go in my favor. I was asking about R just in case she asks but I'm doubtful WW will. I will remain stoic in the waiting room and in court. Won't follow my emotions at all. I am focusing on DS and myself got him enrolled in pre k and playing minecraft with him. Had my first anger managment class yesterday and the counselor agreed I don't need it. I will complete regardless because it looks good as well as my parenting classes. Any other classes I should take? How do I post a question on the radio show? How do I talk to the good doctor? How much does it cost?
Another continuance. She has a lawyer now. They want us to go through mediation. I'm setting the bar high doing that. I want full custody and her supervised custody. No if ands or buts! She tried to talk to me and I said I needed DS birth certificate. She immediately walked away.
I have an attorney. Court is this morning, hopefully things go in my favor. I was asking about R just in case she asks but I'm doubtful WW will. I will remain stoic in the waiting room and in court. Won't follow my emotions at all. I am focusing on DS and myself got him enrolled in pre k and playing minecraft with him. Had my first anger managment class yesterday and the counselor agreed I don't need it. I will complete regardless because it looks good as well as my parenting classes. Any other classes I should take? How do I post a question on the radio show? How do I talk to the good doctor? How much does it cost?
Good luck today and let us know how it goes.
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.
Make sure you include your number and tell them you'd like to be a caller. It is free and you will receive a free book.
I went through mediation. Her boyfriend is probably paying for the lawyer.
**EDIT** im not going to comment further other than saying to not negotiate. By you having temporary custody she is in no position to bargain. If you need to get a GAL. They will think she's crazy.
Oh I did want to let you know. In my case Dr Harley encouraged me to remain in plan a indefinitely if there was any possibility of shared parenting. In case of sole custody he encouraged plan b. I suggest you email the show and ask what he recommends in your case post divorce
Yay, Joyce called and ill be on the show soon! She also asked me to see if WW could call in. I plan asking my IM to pass the number to her to see if she could call and give input on the show. I hope she does with the MB program she will understand that reconciliation is possible and marriage takes hard work not magic.
Thanks BH. Seems WW is in our home city and did not fly back to FL w/ POSOM or PR with MIL. Got an email from her (a fake email address bit I know it was her) she wants to see DS but OP says 0 visitation and I don't want to have DS around her cause she lied to him as well. He asked her where she was and she stated with grandma when she was in fact Miami. Also told him daddy doesn't want mommy and SS to come home. Trying to warp his mind from the truth.
Thanks BH. Seems WW is in our home city and did not fly back to FL w/ POSOM or PR with MIL. Got an email from her (a fake email address bit I know it was her) she wants to see DS but OP says 0 visitation and I don't want to have DS around her cause she lied to him as well. He asked her where she was and she stated with grandma when she was in fact Miami. Also told him daddy doesn't want mommy and SS to come home. Trying to warp his mind from the truth.
If the order says zero visitation, then you have no delima, correct?
I trying had a minor slip up. IM emailed WW asking her to reconcile with me. IM showed me the email replies for one of them and he got me weak cause she seems to be resentful of me and herself. Didn't read the other two. Playing with DS now! Plan B is tough especially when you have a IM whose heart is in the right place but doesn't follow the rules. Schooled IM and making sure there aren't any more lapses in judgement. Wish my WW cared about our family like I do, time will tell!
Thanks BH. Seems WW is in our home city and did not fly back to FL w/ POSOM or PR with MIL. Got an email from her (a fake email address bit I know it was her) she wants to see DS but OP says 0 visitation and I don't want to have DS around her cause she lied to him as well. He asked her where she was and she stated with grandma when she was in fact Miami. Also told him daddy doesn't want mommy and SS to come home. Trying to warp his mind from the truth.
Stick to the court order. This is very similar to my case. I was given an emergency order that gave me full custody. Unfortunately I couldn't get my wife out of the house at that time but you have ! That is great. I assume you have child care working and you are working full time?
I trying had a minor slip up. IM emailed WW asking her to reconcile with me. IM showed me the email replies for one of them and he got me weak cause she seems to be resentful of me and herself. Didn't read the other two. Playing with DS now! Plan B is tough especially when you have a IM whose heart is in the right place but doesn't follow the rules. Schooled IM and making sure there aren't any more lapses in judgement. Wish my WW cared about our family like I do, time will tell!
here is so much wonderful information on your website. It is very encouraging. From all that I have read, it appears that basically almost all marriages are salvageable. I personally need help on investigation to find out truth. Throughout the 6 years of my marriage, there has been many negative things that have affected the love bank which include: pornography, alcohol, drugs, smoking, cheating, incidents of domestic violence toward our children ages 3 and 1, threats of domestic violence toward me, verbal and emotional abuse, and what goes along with the territory: the lying and hiding.
What has been attempted over the years for marriage rebuilding has been turning to ecclesiastical leaders within our church, seeking professional marriage counseling, doing the 12 step program. Unfortunately, as is testified from your website, these things have to be followed through with exactness. My husband never took it fully to heart and that is why we are on the verge of divorce now.
My husband left me and the kids 3 weeks ago. He informed me two weeks ago that he had been sexually abused as a child: new information to me. In hearing that, my 3 year old's odd behavior now made sense. I spoke to my sister n law who works with child protective services. She said all of my observations are indicators of her being violated. My daughter this past week actually verbalized indicators that she was violated by her father. I have reported him to srs and my daughter will be evaluated at the sunflower house by a child forensic pyschologist.
I found some articles on abuse and how a victim and abuser can recover and heal. I shared it with my husband and he is meeting with a clergy and professional counselor this week.
Do you feel that my marriage is recoverable or too much damage and time to move
My friend used a false email and sent her an email asking her to reconcile. I had nothing to do with this. This was her reply.
Stranger,
Well I do not know what BS told you about me but at this point I do not care. None of that applies to me because I did not leave/trade him for anybody. I left him because he simply did not satisfy me anymore in any way, because next to him I felt misserable. I have not cheated and never will, in fact I feel that I have given up pursuing what people call love or their significant other. I am misserable now because I do not have my son and all because BS is so obssesed with me that he is using our son as a manipulation tool to get me to go back with him and at this point, unfortunately there is nothing I can do but pray and that is what I have been doing the most
Now I will appreciate you mind your own business and learn about being fair. Before you judge a situation you MUST hear both sides of the story.
My friend used a false email and sent her an email asking her to reconcile. I had nothing to do with this. This was her reply.
Stranger,
Well I do not know what BS told you about me but at this point I do not care. None of that applies to me because I did not leave/trade him for anybody. I left him because he simply did not satisfy me anymore in any way, because next to him I felt misserable. I have not cheated and never will, in fact I feel that I have given up pursuing what people call love or their significant other. I am misserable now because I do not have my son and all because BS is so obssesed with me that he is using our son as a manipulation tool to get me to go back with him and at this point, unfortunately there is nothing I can do but pray and that is what I have been doing the most
Now I will appreciate you mind your own business and learn about being fair. Before you judge a situation you MUST hear both sides of the story.
I don't think it was a good idea to share this website with her. I encourage you to listen to the advice of Northwood, MaritalBliss and Neverguessed. Their guidance got me through my situation.
My friend used a false email and sent her an email asking her to reconcile. I had nothing to do with this. This was her reply.
Stranger,
Well I do not know what BS told you about me but at this point I do not care. None of that applies to me because I did not leave/trade him for anybody. I left him because he simply did not satisfy me anymore in any way, because next to him I felt misserable. I have not cheated and never will, in fact I feel that I have given up pursuing what people call love or their significant other. I am misserable now because I do not have my son and all because BS is so obssesed with me that he is using our son as a manipulation tool to get me to go back with him and at this point, unfortunately there is nothing I can do but pray and that is what I have been doing the most
Now I will appreciate you mind your own business and learn about being fair. Before you judge a situation you MUST hear both sides of the story.
Tell your friend to stop 'helping'. She'll suspect it's you (is it?) and will resent the 'education'.
Nah it's not me and I told him to stop. Just waiting it out and focusing on myself and my son. Praying that this ends in R. WISH I COULD SPEED UP TIME LOL.
TD, you need to change IMs immediately. I know this guy means well, but he is hurting you tremendously sending her stuff like this. Him telling her to post here is a massive no-no for an IM. Hell, him telling her anything beyond what she needs to know is unacceptable. All he is supposed to be is a conduit for pertinent information, not a champion for winning her back for you.
You are seriously on the verge of losing this place as an info resource and support group.
Done and done. Might take you up on that offer VVVVVV. CPS filed reckless behavior and neglect against her. I'm getting the full report soon have Court next week again. I doubt she is on this site at all. Besides she wouldn't know which is my thread. Plan B next step is teaching my son how to read and working on my physical strength with some weights and focusing on my career. Quick question though when I'm in court waiting again and she tries talking to me what should I do ignore her? What can I say?
When in court waiting room I bring a newspaper so I don't have to look at her. My wife did come up and start talking to me. I just looked at her, and did not argue and kept composed.
I was in plan A until divorce, then went immediately into a watered down version of plan b. It's impossible to have no contact in the courtroom or in court ordered mediation.
Some court room have private consult rooms that you can hang out in until the hearing. Those are nice.
I have a feeling that you see her through rose colored glasses. I often look at my ex wife through those glasses too. But there must be trust. I know that the vets here say, "well you should never trust anyone anyway. " To which I would ask, "Can I trust her not to kidnap my kid and take him to puerto Rico while I'm at the grocery store buying milk and eggs?"
In my case, Dr Harley told me to plan A indefinitely if there was any shared parenting and to plan B if I had sole custody. You may want to email him for his advice. The child svc charge will help you a lot. At this point you would have to do something really stupid to lose full custody going forward
I will be a caller tomorrow for the show so ill wait for his advice. I'm impatient by nature and I hate playing this waiting game. It's worse when I'm at work because my mind wanders but when I'm home despite the triggers and things that remind me of her I do better becaus of DS.
My wife has been involved in a EA for about 1 1/2months. She met this guy in west Virginia while she was on orders (she's reserve) she came home and told me she doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce. I responded with anger and we had an argument since then we had three or so arguments concerning this. Right now I moved out and we are headed for a separation. I currently stay with a co worker and she stays with the kids in the house we shared. I am desperately seeking some advice on fixing my marriage she is steadfast on wanting a divorce and constantly says she needs her space. She says she isn't talking to him anymore I exposed the affair to everyone we know. He also has a fianc� or roommate as he tells my wife and I sent her a message on Facebook still havent received a reply. I know the is a player he has four kids with 2 different women. I have a son and a stepson with my wife. I know she strayed because of mu video gaming and lack of attention and affection I shown her. I stopped playin the video games dropped 50lbs. My change in behavior was because I was stressed and depressed about my job. She has a history of depression and now that I think she stop taking her meds. She is back on them now and I noticed a change, am right for trusting he word on not speaking to this guy anymore? She claims she doesnt want to work on the marriage. What should my next step be?
Thanks new to this forum stuff lol. Today was horrible and good at the same time. I went to work and she is there working too. She has drill this weekend and chose to do her work doing the week knowing I'm there as well. In the office next to mine. It was very uncomfortable I really wanted to say something to her but I didn't I maintained my plan b. she seemed nervous and anxious like she wanted to talk to me as well but was hesitant because of the Order of protection. In my office when I get upset or angry I listen to music that reminds me of her. I did that and she heard it as well. The closed the door to the office she was in. This is the hardest thing I ever done in my life. I wanted to grab her and tell her I love her and give her a big kiss. Tomorrow I have to do the same thing. Did she do this cause she missed me? Or is it because she being spiteful? She got a new job at a department store so she isn't going to stay with OM in his state so I guess that's a plus I guess. Need some advice, am I handling this correctly? Should I say something to her? Could this be a ploy?
Was on the radio show today and I got some awesome advice! I plan to follow through with it Dr. H said I was too judgemental and that was a LB. Also, he said I was the cause of her depression even though she didn't say it. As for taking the kids he said she has an escapist attitude and that why she left with the kids because she felt our relationship was going bad. He said I need to be less judgemental and be part of her escape plan so to speak. The show was aired today if anyone wants to listen. Dr. H also said h that couples remarry often after divorce and I need to tell the truth in court even though its damaging to my wife.
Was on the radio show today and I got some awesome advice! I plan to follow through with it Dr. H said I was too judgemental and that was a LB. Also, he said I was the cause of her depression even though she didn't say it. As for taking the kids he said she has an escapist attitude and that why she left with the kids because she felt our relationship was going bad. He said I need to be less judgemental and be part of her escape plan so to speak. The show was aired today if anyone wants to listen. Dr. H also said h that couples remarry often after divorce and I need to tell the truth in court even though its damaging to my wife.
I'm so glad you received direction from Dr. H. I can't wait to listen. I will post it as soon as they post it.
Yes I told him about that. I think he said to be more supportive and deposit love units because of her history of being an abuse victim. I was told to go through court tell the truth even though it will hurt her but at the same time avoid LBs such as educating her and being judgmental. Today at work she seemed like she wanted to talk again but didn't. Ill wait for BH to post the show and hear everyone else's advice/perspective. I sent her a poem via email. Oh and it seems like I should plan a it because my plan a was AO and very flawed
A betrayed spouse called the radio show today. Her husband is in the military and the military gave her the option of pressing criminal charges. Are you able to file charges against OM?
She also says he uses that to pick up women. His game is to find weak vunerable married women in additional his main girl. Use up the married women as. Then send them on their way if they don't have money to support him. WW is reserve as is he. She told him she was going to go active duty and he saw $$$. Now she can't because of medical reasons. His civilian job is menial in pay and he works on the side as a "personal trainer". A classic narcissist. After an argument with me about the EA. WW and the OM "prayed" for me on the phone during one of their conversations. My wife is religious and he used that to his advantage and she allowed him to. I talked to her today because what I gathered from the call was to be nice aka Plan A carrot then stick with the mantra of rebuilding the marriage while eliminating LBs. We are going out to eat sometime this weekend. I'm not sure that the OM is out of the picture or another is there. I'm swallowing my anger, demands, and judgments in order to be the caring person she needs right now. NG if your out there your hardcore advice would be helpful as would any other vets.
I'm assuming you still have this from my post of 31 October. Clean it up, print it out and, after confirming that the two of you are splitting the check ( Oh, NG!), hand it to her as what she must be prepared to do.
Quote
Dude! Where did you get the supply of "nice guy" pills?
> A full confession to me and mutual friends and kids > A sincere, remorseful apology to kids friends and family > Why you think this happened (name the problem on both sides --you've got to name it to claim it) Waste of time, and gives her "spin" opportunity > A detailed recovery plan (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it) You drive the bus, TD, so: Follow to 100% compliance the recovery plan TD defines > Proof you're working a 12-step program for addiction > See a psychiatrist for your personal issues. > Proof is required on demand. > NC letter to POSOM > enroll in a follow the MB program together > read follow all Dr. H books I can READ a Superman comic, but still can't "leap over tall buildings in a single bound" - it takes me TWO > legal agreement where the kids don't leave without my permission Unenforceable, as long as she remains a custodial parent, so: Give up custody of DS to you, exclusively > no more OS friends > complete transparency; no Facebook or social networking And, all passwords to private and work IDs. If work cannot accommodate your access, she changes jobs > change units
> STD test > verification of her "illness" story > MIL? Passport? Access to funds?
WW stayed the night at the house after we spent time together as a family. I told her I care for her and willing to create a marriage where both our needs are met. After that we did some shopping for the DS and went out to eat. She asked if was on for her to stay with DS in our marital home I said sure. She is down stairs now sleeping on the futon with DS. We had good conversation, she cried a lot. My DS was extremely happy and told her all we need is SS so we can be a family and that made her cry as well. When we got home she started to cry because she said she felt like a stranger in her house. I asked if she was ok and she said she needed time alone so I gave DS a shower and she joined me. Went through the daily routine DS and I do. Bath brush his teeth and we pray. WW joined us and she opened up and said she doesn't love me and she doesn't want to be with anyone. I listened without LBs and held my anger in check when she said she is still talking to OM and he isn't pursuing her. I dismissed it as fogbabble. Told her that I'm not rushing anything and taking day by day. We read a couple bible passages together and she said she prays daily for my forgiveness because she knows she done our family wrong. Cried some more and I held her hand. She then said it would take a miracle for us to reconcile and I told her I pray about us everyday and the same I care for you mantra and I'm willing to be a listening ear. Overall I did well I think no LBs I didn't pressure into coming back, I made it clear that I am against her affair and told her I am changing for the better but I have a long way to go. Kissed her forehead and went up stairs to the marital bed to go to sleep. I'm following what Dr. H said on the show when I called in. He stated I need to let her know I care for her in order to be her escape plan when things get tough aka plan a.
No. I disagree. I did not hear him say in in that way. You have a restraining order you encouraged her to break. She tells you she is still in contact with OM and you shrug your shoulders. And now she is sleeping in your house in plan a or b, in violation of the RO?
Here's the thing with plan A during an affair: the affair is vehemently opposed and must be killed. Otherwise your marriage has no hope.
She should not be back in your house. She should not be speaking to you unless she agrees to : 1. No contact with OM for the rest of her life. This includes writing a NC letter as explained in SAA. And 2. Agree to MB recovery plan.
Jedi you heard my call on the show? I'm trying to be her escape plan and at the same time letting her know that I'm opposed to the affair and will do what is in the best interest of my DS and her. From the call I gathered since I had a messed up plan A I should do to again and create a non hostile environment without being a door mat. In order to plan A I need to spend time with her and communicate and listen all the while waiting for her to open up to me. Please if you still feel this way and heard my call I will follow your advice. BH said that the ca will be posted as soon as she can. 14NOV12 was the date.
What specifically does the RO prohibit? By participating in violating it you will lose credibility with the court. Has your W agreed to work on recovering the marriage? You might want to retread the carrot and stick of plan A... But don't jeopardize your custody of your son over marriage recovery...HE needs you more than you need her. Have you talked to your lawyer? Maybe you can get the RO modified.
WW stayed the night at the house after we spent time together as a family. I told her I care for her and willing to create a marriage where both our needs are met. After that we did some shopping for the DS and went out to eat. She asked if was on for her to stay with DS in our marital home I said sure. She is down stairs now sleeping on the futon with DS. We had good conversation, she cried a lot. My DS was extremely happy and told her all we need is SS so we can be a family and that made her cry as well. When we got home she started to cry because she said she felt like a stranger in her house. I asked if she was ok and she said she needed time alone so I gave DS a shower and she joined me. Went through the daily routine DS and I do. Bath brush his teeth and we pray. WW joined us and she opened up and said she doesn't love me and she doesn't want to be with anyone. I listened without LBs and held my anger in check when she said she is still talking to OM and he isn't pursuing her. I dismissed it as fogbabble. Told her that I'm not rushing anything and taking day by day. We read a couple bible passages together and she said she prays daily for my forgiveness because she knows she done our family wrong. Cried some more and I held her hand. She then said it would take a miracle for us to reconcile and I told her I pray about us everyday and the same I care for you mantra and I'm willing to be a listening ear. Overall I did well I think no LBs I didn't pressure into coming back, I made it clear that I am against her affair and told her I am changing for the better but I have a long way to go. Kissed her forehead and went up stairs to the marital bed to go to sleep. I'm following what Dr. H said on the show when I called in. He stated I need to let her know I care for her in order to be her escape plan when things get tough aka plan a.
Okay, I'm out. When you begin to believe what those experts here have been telling you about managing the re-approach with WW, (or, more likely, after she sticks it up your pooper once again after you let down your guard and give her a free pass on the betrayals and child-removal she's committed) have one of the Mods drop me a line, and I'll stop back.
I heard the last part of your call on the Internet rebroadcast. Yes I heard Dr Harley explain that you need to be part of her escape plan. A partner in life. But he also said that the court stuff was out of your hands and that you should obviously tell the truth, etc in court. Part of telling the truth in court is also to respect the rule of law. The court granted you custody because she has "demonstrated such poor judgement," in Dr Harley's words.
I didn't hear the first part of your call. But your marriage can't recover until the affair is dead and she agrees to the recovery plan in Surviving an Affair book.
Plan B was good because then it was that POS that had to meet her emotional needs and she saw what divorce will be like. She felt the consequences of her actions. But going from plan B straight back to Plan A with no stick? I don't see how that helps you.
Dr Harley talked about battered women shelters the other day and said one challenge was keepin the women in because they try to sneak out and see their abuser. It seems that you are so desperate to see her again you heard Dr Harley tell you to bring her back home and plan A her. As I said, I only heard the last part of your call; .......
I suggest the following: Youve already brought her back into the house. First, do not leave her alone with your child. Second hide your money from her.
Dont commit any angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements while around her.
You need to have an immediate Come to Jesus meeting about this. You should calmly explain that 1. You love her and are willing to work to create a loving healthy marriage. But you must insist that she permanently separate from OM. She must agree to never see or speak to him again and write a No Contact Letter (from SAA book) to him. (which you read and mail certified mail. And it has to contain te language in the book)
She must agree to the MB Recovery Plan.
If she does not agree then you proceed with divorce.
Irregardless of her decision she can't stay there in violation of a court restrainin order.
I've noticed that you have been making excuses for her both on the show and in your thread. The OM tricks women by this, she needed that.
An important fact is that your wife is a grown woman. She is fully responsible for the choices she makes and she chooses to have an affair. That is a choice that she made.
People make jokes on these threads about an alien controlling the wayward spouse and it seems like that at times, but these are choices that they and your wife are making.
I see your point. Please keep in mind she isn't staying there. I understand fully that she is an adult and made this choice. From what I got from the show was stay my course legally and plan A. I believe I'm doing that, IG investigation is ongoing. I told her that her behavior is unacceptable and I will not stand for it. An full exposure was done and I'm doing my best to meet her needs. Legally I'm good to go as far as that is concerned my lawyer knows everything.
Will do ill read that. NG SHE ISN'T LIVING THERE. Stayed one night and one night only. We talked and I told he to end the affair. She didn't agree to R that's why she isn't there anymore. She did show me proof of her possible cancer she did a std screening. Today if we talk I will push the NC letter. Please listen to the show Dr. H said avoid love busters. That led me to believe plan A. He also said proceed with divorce and custody. My lawyer said it was no problem with her staying the night. I VAR our time together as a back up plan. I don't know how to kill the affair other than telling her. I exposed I don't know what to do next.
Just finishing reading it. I see your point Jedi. I asked WW to come by the house so we can talk. At that point ill demand the NC and hand her a copy of SAA. "Read if if you care about DS and me." Is what I will say.
On page 47 it states sues return was short lived. Soon she wanted to talk to Greg again, sounds like my WW so I see where you all are coming from. The book total separation before R. I feel like if she reads this book she will understand. Thanks for helping out guys.
I don't think handing her the book will help.that is trying to educate her. I think you should tell her the conditions for marital recovery and she can respond. She will not be favorable to you trying to educate her
"I recommend that you remain in plan A, but don�t lose your temper or do anything else that would cause you to lose love units. Try to make it clear that you will not tolerate another man in her life, but that you are willing to overcome any problems she has with you that might have tempted her to have this affair."
So I'm in officially in plan A. Any good ideas for affection and attention?
Last time we talked i asked cor MIL mailing address so i can send him some clothes and Xmas gift. She stated that i could give it to him. So i guess hes coming back soon. BH any luck on posting my radio call? 14NOV12.
Talked to her again she told me all about her day and her new job etc. was a good conversation. Didn't bring up marriage or anything like that. I have two tickets to a comedy show was going to ask out on a date. Feels weird typing that asking my wife on a date. She made a comment of how DS his not depending on her as much. I wanted to say well this is what your affair cost you but I didn't just listened. She mentioned she wants to come home and work on our marriage but she can't cause she doesn't love me anymore. I said I'm sorry to hear that and you know the terms of rebuilding and left it that. Massaged her feet and then she left in tears. This is tough!
Talked to her again she told me all about her day and her new job etc. was a good conversation. Didn't bring up marriage or anything like that. I have two tickets to a comedy show was going to ask out on a date. Feels weird typing that asking my wife on a date. She made a comment of how DS his not depending on her as much. I wanted to say well this is what your affair cost you but I didn't just listened. She mentioned she wants to come home and work on our marriage but she can't cause she doesn't love me anymore. I said I'm sorry to hear that and you know the terms of rebuilding and left it that. Massaged her feet and then she left in tears. This is tough!
I'm so sorry you have to go through this, TD. But it is part of getting your wife back home. You're doing well.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
Sent a small bouquet of flowers to her job with a poem asking her out to a comedy show this Saturday. Spoke to her about DS and she didn't mention it. Ill give her time to respond also I will practice my not disappointed face if she says no. Been cooking (I never cook!) brought her leftovers to her job and she liked it! She also liked the foot massage. Hanging in there!
Update: She did not go out with me per se but we spent an couple hours of UA time and I spent it well. Filling her ENs. The next day DS and I we t to church and she joined us. That went well also, we never went to church together and it was one of the things I knew she didn't like about our relationship. She never voiced it but in hindsight I see it. Did not bring up any relationship talk and I k ow she sti talks to POSOM. Shortly after returning to the marital residence,she did not come because she was feeling ill and went to the doctor, I sent her a text saying I hope everything is ok and I am caring for her always. She replied with this
TD please, don't mess it up. I'm not liking all the attention. I appreciate you caring but now is a lil too late. I know I can't stop you but please don't make me uncomfortable. I said I will keep you posted and I will, I'm trying to be civil for the sake of the children but please don't get your hopes up. It will be easier for you if you keep it real.
I replied with this:
All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I understand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible. I am sorry for being the reason you were depressed. I am sorry for not showing you the love and attention I used to. I know my faults, I am not perfect but I am changing. I have hope for a marriage with you were both our needs are met. You still have the email of things I would like us to do to fix our marriage. I am willing and with time I pray and hope you will be too.
I don't know what to make of her message it's rattling around in my brain! The email stated the list earlier in my post. I am at a loss, is this normal WW talk? Can anyone offer any insight on this?
Well today is tough. I stop thinking about WW and what she doing who she is with. Feeling very depressed about this whole situation. I know what to do but at the same time I'm impatient. That grows to frustration then to anger and finally despair! Frustrated because I have to go through this. Anger cause she is doing this to our family based on selfishness. Are there any techniques I can use to stop these thoughts? Sent her a nice text message saying enjoy her day at work and she replied with we could be good friends aka more fog babble. Hanging in there I understand this is a day by day process.
No. You can't discuss your marriage while the affair is ongoing. Did you read the plan A links? It's basically just all give and no take.
But you can allow it to teach you a lesson in humility as you plan A.
I would reach out to a older man, preferably an elder or pastor in your church, for support during this time. It helped me a lot.
You asked how to respond to these thoughts... What helped me was I just kept telling myself: I can't control the actions of others. I can only control MY actions and how I choose to respond to the actions of others.
I have prayed for your marriage and both you,your wife and your children.
In my case I was encouraged to not talk about it.repeat one sentence to get through her thick skull: "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage where both of our needs are met"
And as soon as she starts,
"I never really loved you" or "you are not what I need" or anything else politely (I learned this during plan a - how to be polite when dealing with someone spewing venom) politely look at her in the eyes, (don't interrupt), and when she is done speaking repeat the same sentence. Or offer her a cup of water. The posters encouraged me to always offer her a "cookie" which I thought sounded messed up. I offered water, juice or coffee.
WW called yesterday morning she was upset that her court case wasnt resolved. Tried to start an argument I stayed polite and respectful. after that she hung up and called back and apologized. We then talked on the phine abit about her health, day so far, and kids. She stopped by the marital home. We talked for about an hour usual stuff before all this happened. Her job, her day at work, DS and SS. Was a good conversation I'm learning to be a listener. Did an awesome job avoiding LBs I caught my self interrupting her and quick apologized. Other than that not much of an update just trying to keep DS safe. Teaching him his alphabet. Had a hard time sleeping last nite was missing my SS and WW. So this morning I went all out at the gym to keep me sane.
However I did find a Radio Clip where Dr Harley encouraged couples to join a gym. He said in his experience gyms at home don't work (which everyone knows). He says people experience a release of endorphins occur when you exercise. He said a lot of affairs start in gyms.
Regarding the gym, some have posted here that Dr Harley warns people on the radio to avoid exercising at gyms because of the women there.
As long as the husband and wife goes TOGETHER. He doesn't recommend it when one spouse can't go with the other, especially if there has been an affair.
I go by myself not by choice. She has shown some signs but hasn't actually said she wants to rebuild. We talk about an hour or so a day about life and not the relationship.
I go by myself not by choice. She has shown some signs but hasn't actually said she wants to rebuild. We talk about an hour or so a day about life and not the relationship.
When my WH was on his deployment and the gym was our RA, Dr. H told me not to go to the gym alone. I was going with my DD13 at the time and he strongly stressed to me to not do it. My WH had one of his affairs right before he was deployed and I was so down and alone.
Dr. Harley said the gym is not a healthy place for a married spouse to be. Everyone feeling good and those endorphins being released isn't safe.
Negative there lol. Ill just keep my boundaries like I have been doing never had an affair without Dr. Hs material so I know now I want put myself in that position. Talked with her about her day, work, etc. reminiscing about happier times. Complimented her when I could but not overly so. So made some good LB deposits. Texting her g'morning and g'nite with a random how ya doing text doing the day. She smiles when she talks to me and loses he train of thought when we meet eye contact. DS is doing awesome learning how to tie his shoes now. Completed anger managment and parenting classes as well.
Sent her a nice i love you text midday and she replied please stop sending this stuff to me but she talked on the phone to me for an hour. Dismissing the text as fogbabble. Making progress I believe. Meanwhile on the stick front it seems POSOM indeed has a relationship. Tried to contact her again no luck. Any other tactics I could use to bust up the A? I already exposed.
Sent her a nice i love you text midday and she replied please stop sending this stuff to me but she talked on the phone to me for an hour. Dismissing the text as fogbabble. Making progress I believe. Meanwhile on the stick front it seems POSOM indeed has a relationship. Tried to contact her again no luck. Any other tactics I could use to bust up the A? I already exposed.
So are you still dealing with the TRO? Sorry if I missed that. Are you letting her see your DS3?
TRO? I dont know what that meanns. She comes to marital home to see him but its when he is asleep. She stays and talks with me for an hour or so then leaves. Last week was the last time she saw DS. Not sure if she still with OM from one of our talks she said she went to see him, I'm assuming announced he lives in FL and we are in Midwest, and she said she saw everyone and was upset. So I believe she knows she is not is main girl and he's still with his fianc�. I'm not sure if they talk still, I will assume they do. She has good days where we have intimate conversations then other days like today she acts guarded and angry. I know she is still foggy. That's why I think the affair is ongoing.
TRO? I dont know what that meanns. She comes to marital home to see him but its when he is asleep. She stays and talks with me for an hour or so then leaves. Last week was the last time she saw DS. Not sure if she still with OM from one of our talks she said she went to see him, I'm assuming announced he lives in FL and we are in Midwest, and she said she saw everyone and was upset. So I believe she knows she is not is main girl and he's still with his fianc�. I'm not sure if they talk still, I will assume they do. She has good days where we have intimate conversations then other days like today she acts guarded and angry. I know she is still foggy. That's why I think the affair is ongoing.
I thought she took a temp restraining order out on you. My bad,I was thinking of another story.
Yes if she's still in contact with OM she is keeping her options open with you.
She isn't at home and so you're trying to Plan A from afar?
No. He has a restraining order against her. The court also gave him temporary full custody of their son. She also has pending Children Services charges against her.
She originally fled the state and took her boys to Puerto Rico and returned with their son for a court hearing, which granted him custody and a restraining order
Assuming you believe yourself to be in some form of Plan A, I'll give you some form of advice related to that.
The BH performs Plan A without expectations. You just do it. You don't wait or look for improvements in her behavior or feelings for you. You don't ask "When...?", or "Why....?, about any of her actions. You just provide satisfaction of her key ENs without recompense. YOU JUST DO IT.
And then, if there is no return, for all your EN expenditure, your LB$ contracts and shrinks, and as it approaches ZERO, you cut over immediately to Plan B.
Yea like JK said that's pretty much it. I are Dr. H plan to get her to be with me to deposit love units. He suggested that Andy go out as a family with his wife to get in LB deposits. I was thinking of doing something similar. I know for a fact OM isn't here so and I am the father of our son so I do have a huge advantage. Ill set up some family time and work that plan. I will also start helping her with things as I can. I'm on borrowed time since I filed for divorce. Hopefully this can be resolved before the divorce is final. I really love and miss my wife and family. I know somewhere in her heart she feels the same. Just foggy.
I am willing to overcome any problems you have with me that might have tempted to you having an affair. The only demand I have is to cease contact with OM and any other male in order to focus on us.
I promised to cherish you and protect respect your feelings. I failed them, I see that now. I was depressed but that's not an excuse I didn't put you first. There's one thing you know about me I learn and don't repeat mistakes. This has been a Learning process for me. I understand your pain and depression and promise to use the marriage builders concepts, the counseling, anger management, and parenting classes and home ec class to make myself the husband you married and deserve. It's not too late for our family.
Love,
Was thinking of sending this to her or at least talking to her about it. Thoughts?
I am willing to overcome any problems you have with me that might have tempted to you having an affair. The only demand I have is to cease contact with OM and any other male in order to focus on us.
I promised to cherish you and protect respect your feelings. I failed them, I see that now. I was depressed but that's not an excuse I didn't put you first. There's one thing you know about me I learn and don't repeat mistakes. This has been a Learning process for me. I understand your pain and depression and promise to use the marriage builders concepts, the counseling, anger management, and parenting classes and home ec class to make myself the husband you married and deserve. It's not too late for our family.
Love,
Was thinking of sending this to her or at least talking to her about it. Thoughts?
One thing has been nagging my mind all day, should I call OM? If so what should I say? I was planning on calling him and recording the phone call? Any thoughts was going to do it on Wednesday. Keep in mind POSOM lives 5 states away. Thoughts? Advice?
It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. POSOM is in an affair with my wife, from July and is on going. He has paid money to fly my wife to see him 26 October - November 7. I believe that his friends and co workers should know this, so you can protect your wives and marriage from him. My wife and I have 2 sons ages 4 and 9 and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage. Yet, he continues to pursue and lust after my wife. I understand he also has a fianc�/girlfriend please let her know about this as well. I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks. I love my family and despite my wife's deception I am willing to save my family. I understand he was also arrested for molesting his own daughter and I fear for my family. The link is below:
<link to mugshots>
I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxxxxx so they may know what kind of man their son is.
Thank you, TD
Found POSOM job plan on emailing above to all his co workers. My wife affair didn't originate in the work place but I think this is a good idea.
It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. POSOM is in an affair with my wife, from July and is on going. He has paid money to fly my wife to see him 26 October - November 7. I believe that his friends and co workers should know this, so you can protect your wives and marriage from him. My wife and I have 2 sons ages 4 and 9 and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage. Yet, he continues to pursue and lust after my wife. I understand he also has a fianc�/girlfriend please let her know about this as well. I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks. I love my family and despite my wife's deception I am willing to save my family. I understand he was also arrested for molesting his own daughter and I fear for my family. The link is below:
<link to mugshots>
I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxxxxx so they may know what kind of man their son is.
Thank you, TD
Found POSOM job plan on emailing above to all his co workers. My wife affair didn't originate in the work place but I think this is a good idea.
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Too bad you were not able to mail this October 25.
Though the up side is better a little late then never. Get your butt down to the Post Office, email, FB, and every method that you have to use to expose this today.
Include that link to the mug shots.
WW will get bombed with how can you date Chester Molester.
OM friends that don't know the dirt will now drop him.
OM will be working harder then a one armed paper hanger throwing your WW under the bus while simultaneously damage control his reputation.
I exposed my wife's affair partner and in my experience, the wife came back and justified the other mans criminal background. She turned it into a "us (her and affair partner) against the world " attitude.
Later as more and more people read the exposure emails (it takes about a week for everyone to read them) then she looked at me, and her eyes literally looked crazy. It was the weirdest thing I ever experienced. She got depressed and sad for OM and slept for like 3 days.
She repeatedly tried to bring it up and each time I said "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage where both of our needs are met"
"why did you involve other people? Complete strangers into our lives?"
Well he is a danger to marriage and children and people have the right to know so they can protect their marriage and children from him
"that is such a lie. You are really crazy and controlling. "
Would you like a cup of coffee? I bought the generic brand and i think it tastes as good as Folgers.
Part of that is my actual experience the rest really close
Since she had a history of angry outbursts then expect her to possiblly get mad. I she assaults you I would call the police. The Restraining Order should help you avoid her worst outbursts
Well sent letter to WW friend who is male. Recently remarried because his previous wife ran off with his kids to be with someone else. She called and demanded to know why sent her friend a email and that it was "psycho". I told her email is public knowledge and I didn't call her to talk about that I wanted to see if she was ok. She stated that I shouldn't bring anyone from the outside into our marriage I stated that's what you did and I prefer not to talk about it. She said she doing bad now and feels horrible then hung up. I texted her when your willing to talk about what's wrong I'll be here not trying to argue you take care I love you. How'd did I do? How should I improve?
Here's one that I have said when placed in a very similar situation:
"why are you involving other people? They don't want to hear this stuff. They told me they want you to leave them alone. It's sad and controlling. You need help. Please see a counselor"
Answer:
"I just bought this juice from Walmart. It's cheaper than V8 but tastes the same. Do you want to try a glass? It's really good"
JK, please tell me you were actually able to say that with a straight face! That's awesome stuff. I need to practice that stuff. Luckily for me, with the exception of a couple weeks back, she usually doesn't want to talk about this at all.
Hang in there TD. Exposure makes them mad at you for an extended period of time, but there's no hope if the affair doesn't die. I was lucky. My POSOM was a chicken schnitt. I kind of guessed he would bolt when he didn't take advantage of their meet-up. You, on the other hand, have a real dirt ball POS to deal with. Hopefully, your exposure nukes his a__.
Hopefully it does. I'm guessing she is mad cause POSOM called her about the emails I sent his co workers. Ill give it a couple days but will keep texting her nice things and such. Birthday is soon hopefully ill be able to make huge deposits in her love bank with the present and activity I have planned.
JK, please tell me you were actually able to say that with a straight face! That's awesome stuff. I need to practice that stuff. Luckily for me, with the exception of a couple weeks back, she usually doesn't want to talk about this at all.
Hang in there TD. Exposure makes them mad at you for an extended period of time, but there's no hope if the affair doesn't die. I was lucky. My POSOM was a chicken schnitt. I kind of guessed he would bolt when he didn't take advantage of their meet-up. You, on the other hand, have a real dirt ball POS to deal with. Hopefully, your exposure nukes his a__.
Yes. I was able to say that with a straight face. I pretended I was an actor on stage. It is much more productive than "talking" about marriage with an active wayward.
Yes I did. I can't get a hold of the fianc� but his work email and co workers email address are public knowledge so I sent all 19 co workers that message. Hope that is the right way to go.
Received a reply from OM side apparently its from one of his co workers who is obviously a friend of his. Said I wasn't a real man lol. The nerve of some people.
Well I have court tomorrow. Pray for me and I hope WW sees the light I'm giving her to get out of the fog. This is hard but I believe I can do this and get my family back together!
Well I have court tomorrow. Pray for me and I hope WW sees the light I'm giving her to get out of the fog. This is hard but I believe I can do this and get my family back together!
"I just bought this juice from Walmart. It's cheaper than V8 but tastes the same. Do you want to try a glass? It's really good"
ROFL, This just made my day!
The fact that some of the POSOM's friend & collegues replied is a sign they were caught by surprise & the news is hurting them. They are going to check this with POSOM. Just wait & see.
Can't sleep did some searching seems POSOM has an account on a sex website. Not sure what to do with this information took a pic of it with my phone for later use. No doubt now this guy is a frigging predator. Profile made in 2006 which would put it around the time of his daughters birth year meaning he was and still is cheating on his fianc�/baby mother. I'm so friggin angry right now! I can't believe I'm getting so much trouble from WW ITS BECAUSE she thinks he's a better man. Argh! Court hearing is for divorce and the order of protection. Going to try to sleep now.
Well the restraining order was extended and another court is set. OM called wife apparently upset that I emailed is co workers. I think it was a very angry conversation cause her tone was angry with me. "Why are you bringing other people into our marriage" I said that's why we are here now and told her politely to change the subject. We then talked about stepson coming home and she said she didn't have the money now. We also talked about her possible cancer and she has an appointment for it and wanted me to go with her. I took that as a positive sign and agreed because I am really concern about that. She had to go to work and I hung up. Dr H said I should plan a till divorce is final. Email is below:
Hi TD,
Your efforts to win your wife back are making love bank deposits, but you may have a way to go before you hit her romantic love threshold. Keep talking to her, and make sure you do some of the talking, too. Her affair is not a wise thing for her to do, but when someone is in the fog, it's hard to make that point without sounding disrespectful. All you can do is what you are doing, and even if she forces an end in your marriage, you will turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to her. She may figure that out after the divorce is over. Many of the couples I've counseled have remarried after divorce. On the other hand, by that time you may come to the conclusion that she is the worst thing that ever happened to you, and her chances will be over. Either way, I think you will have greatly benefitted from what you have learned lately.
Keep it up. One way or another you will be a better man. I'll pray tonight that your WW comes out of the fog when I am praying for mine. Just keep your eye on the ball and the goal line. It's what gets me through the day.
OM called wife apparently upset that I emailed is co workers. I think it was a very angry conversation cause her tone was angry with me. "Why are you bringing other people into our marriage" I said that's why we are here now and told her politely to change the subject. We then talked about stepson coming home and she said she didn't have the money now. We also talked about her possible cancer and she has an appointment for it and wanted me to go with her. I took that as a positive sign and agreed because I am really concern about that. She had to go to work and I hung up.
I am confused. Did OMW call YOU? or call your WW? If OMW is calling you and wanting you to go to Drs. appointments with her, that is really out of bounds...???
I did plan A until day of divorce. And you can plan A after divorce too. Dr Harley discussed this on yesterday's show and said that if a man tries to win a wife back he usually can (with patience).
Are you part of a good church? Reach out to them for support Find an elder or pastor to confide in
Yes, I do that JK. Wife called she was furious. I was prepared though I kept calm and said we can talk but I'm not willing to argue. She was upset because she got reprimanded for the IG investigation. I told her calmly I have a program to rebuild our marriage and that I am sad that she has to go through thatext. She screamed to never text or talk to her ever again and that I want a divorce I got it. If I call her or text she will file for harrasment. I said I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. Then I told her goodbye. Followed with a text of what she said so I can have it in writing. I replied with the same mantra and that POSOM isn't worried about you and when she is calm she can call and talk about things. Also that I was done arguing.
TD, typically the kind of reprimand that would be given in this case would be a no contact order. It might that your wife didn't mention that because she knew if she told you that you would report additional contact to the IG and then the REAL trouble begins.
I would call the IG tomorrow. They probably won't tell you what the reprimand was, but you can ask them if you see that contact has continued should you let them know. The military doesn't like it's direct orders disobeyed so they would probably tell you to indeed contact them if that occurred.
Wish MM or G were around to confirm this, but hey, a simple phone call can't hurt.
Oh I know, I started the post and then had to walk away for a few minutes.
I'm just thinking if she is this mad that it had to be a NC order, but didn't want to say it to him in hopes of him calling off the snooping dogs and not get caught disobeying a direct order.
WW birthday is soon. Bought a nice gift and a card signed by me and DS. Asked if she could come by to talk after work. She agreed but we shall see. I can't shake the feeling the blow up was coached by POSOM. Granted she is an adult, the whole thing sounded fake and out of character. I seen her blow up before and this one over the phone sounded iffy oh well prolly just reading into things. God bless you all and thanks for the support.
if there is one thing I have learned to this point, is to ignore, or at least not trust, anything they say with regards to you. They have a way of projecting their issues on you to shift the blame.
"Why are you bringing other people into our marriage"
Why is she bringing OM who have multiple casual sex partners off some internet hook up site, who likely gave her HPV which is a very well know cause of cervical cancer and pre-cancerous cells!?
I so wanted to say that to her gamma. Matter of fact the old me would of said just that. Thanks to lovebusters I didn't I used the opportunity to make love bank deposits.
Today was WW birthday got her a necklace and a card signed by me and DS. She came over to talk and everything was "normal". Gave her the gift she teared and smiled. She then went into the fog... "If I accept this what does it mean?" I said its your birthday I got you a gift and I love you. She gave me a blank look and started to talk about her day. Talked for about 30-40 minutes and then left. I'm picturing that pond with pebbles patience isn't my strong suit.
I plan A'ed with my exgf during her affair: I know how much the fogbabble hurts & how it feels to 'fall apart' after the wayward tries to project her anger onto you.
It's OK to be angry & desperate. No human was build to take abuse.
Hang in there TD, you are fighting for your family and are doing your very best!
Today was WW birthday got her a necklace and a card signed by me and DS. She came over to talk and everything was "normal". Gave her the gift she teared and smiled. She then went into the fog... "If I accept this what does it mean?" I said its your birthday I got you a gift and I love you. She gave me a blank look and started to talk about her day. Talked for about 30-40 minutes and then left. I'm picturing that pond with pebbles patience isn't my strong suit.
How long have you been doing a good plan A?
I use to be a big baseball fan. I would never miss a game. Not on TV, then radio, not home in car the radio would be on.
Point is I have seen a lot of come backs. Whether to win a game, end of season play off to get into the post season, or win the series after losing the first 2 games.
You just have to make every at bat count. The fat lady has not sung. Even if you come up a day late and a dollar short you will be able to walk away proud because you have done all that anyone can do.
Well I was doing a plan A wrought with Lovebusters since this started back in July. I started my good plan A on November 14. So it's almost been a month. Divorce is filed I'm hoping my plan A efforts cause her to want to stop it. I plan on ending plan A around march.
I've been reading your thread and am sorry you are having to go through this. I am cheering for you.
I wanted to question your wife's possible cervical cancer and point out a couple of things. I hope you go to the appointment with her so you can get the scoop from her doc and not be drawn into unnecessary drama. Of course any form of cancer is very frightening so I do not want to minimize, just inform.
Most cervical cancer starts with HPV (human papillomavirus), which is a sexually transmitted disease. It is extremely common and very slow moving, so not likely to be from a recent affair. If the doc says "somereallylongword cells of unknown origin" that is not cancer. That is precancerous or potentially cancerous. They will remove the cells and keep an eye out. Like I said, it is very slow moving, like years to become cancer. If she has been getting regular papsmears, which she likely has being in reserve, don't get all panicky.
If you go with her to the appt, you can ask questions and should. Your wife may not be able to hear past the word cancer, so you can be the one to fully understand her options. There are several choices with pros and cons. The LEEP procedure, for instance, removes the least amount of the cervix (so if it ever returns years later there is still something to remove to get rid of it without chemo/radiation), while the cone removes most of it.
Anyway, just wanted to reassure you that just because she hears the words "cervical cancer" does not necessarily mean cervical cancer.
Today was WW birthday got her a necklace and a card signed by me and DS. She came over to talk and everything was "normal". Gave her the gift she teared and smiled. She then went into the fog... "If I accept this what does it mean?" I said its your birthday I got you a gift and I love you. She gave me a blank look and started to talk about her day. Talked for about 30-40 minutes and then left. I'm picturing that pond with pebbles patience isn't my strong suit.
How long have you been doing a good plan A?
I use to be a big baseball fan. I would never miss a game. Not on TV, then radio, not home in car the radio would be on.
Point is I have seen a lot of come backs. Whether to win a game, end of season play off to get into the post season, or win the series after losing the first 2 games.
You just have to make every at bat count. The fat lady has not sung. Even if you come up a day late and a dollar short you will be able to walk away proud because you have done all that anyone can do.
During my wife's affair, after I found MB, I thought of boxing and i commited myself to going into the Ring to fight for my marriage. Whether I lost or won, I would be able to look at myself in the mirror and say I gave it my best. Although I am now divorced, and lost the fight, I walked away knowing I did my best.
Regarding plan A, Dr Harley often recommends plan A for years, even after divorce.
I would not be able to keep plan A up for that long.
Nor would I, brother.
But given different family/history/environment/psychological elements in the lives of the BHs here, we have seen some SERIOUS marathon-length Plan A performances. TD has the DS factor to consider, as well as the more distant SS complication. His ability to absorb and accommodate some truly horrendous WW behavior, without having his LB$ balance plunging into the red, is remarkable. (Find GJM's thread for a BH who assiduously Plan A'd until the gavel came down on the dissolution, and immediately and seamlessly cut over to Plan B.)
The length/strength of the Plan A effort will, even unto failure, endow the BH with the self-satisfaction that all that could have been done, he did. No guilt. No lingering doubts. No share in the destruction. It would be all on her. The lifeline went ungrabbed.
Glad to see your still kicking NG, that's my plan to Plan A until divorce. It seems to be working I see some lucidity from it. A plus side is that the POSOM lives 2000 miles away so it makes it easier I think. I just pray and clean up my side of the fence. My DS really helps me through this. Everytime he sees WW he asks the tough questions like "why aren't you home?" "Daddy loves you" "I want to love with both of you". Spoke with my SS be wants to come home now. I believe the deck is stacked against her now. Anyways, going to anger managment (although I don't need it never been an angry person) completed parenting courses. Taking a cooking class, working out etc. becoming a super dad at the same time meeting her emotional needs as she let me and also when any relationship talk crops up I listen and respond with "I have a plan for our marriage to make it the best ever while all of each others needs are met." She asked for my copy of SAA I gave it to her. Who knows if she is reading it. Other than that I have my depressed days so I workout and play with DS to overcome them. God bless you and all and pray for my family.
OM living away helps a LOT. Exposure has helped a LOT. This affair will eventually die a natural death ( well more premature death. The exposure is like assassins shooting at MR Affair and he dies quicker). Then you will be one left meeting her needs. Just hang in there. And remember safety and health come first.
Have you read Buyers Renters and Freeloaders? If not get a copy.
Also I am praying for you. I will also ask my Sunday School class to pray for your marriage and family also
TD, you are doing good. Hang in there. You are on a similar time frame with me and I just noticed the past day and a half some significant changes in my wife's mood toward me. Probably the most congenial and agreeable she has been with me since before she met up with the OM, if not even earlier. After reading several other threads, I keep seeing the same thing: you can't have any expectations and time tends to be on your side. I've seen several threads where progress appeared minimal at best then the tide started to notably turn in the BS's favor.
I'll continue to pray for you as well. God's given me incredible strength to go through this process without going insane or losing my love for my WW. He's doing the same for you. Just keep your eye on the prize; it's the only way to think right now.
I think it helps if two things are happening: 1) your WW isn't committing a bunch of LB's, and 2) you simply remind yourself over and over of what you had and what she was like and try to think of her in those terms and you are focused on the long term prize of getting her back and having a great marriage. Of course, you have to also be able and willing to let go if that time comes, but the thoughts of what my WW was like and thinking of the long term prize of getting her back, has helped me keep her Love bank balance up, and not constantly withdrawing.
I've always found that, when I'm not getting things my way now, if I focus on what it would be like to get what I wanted someday, and how I could go about getting that (seeing it all in my mind) that I could find a way to keep going. You absolutely have to be able to focus on the long term goal and brush the negative stuff away as fast as possible. I'm amazed how much strength I still have after 3 months. So far I feel like I've really haven't lost any lover for her since the initial dip. I also think God has given me the strength to endure this.
I his profile on a online swingers site should I show this to WW? I really want her to see this holy man for who he is a narcissistic opportunist. Thoughts?
I his profile on a online swingers site should I show this to WW? I really want her to see this holy man for who he is a narcissistic opportunist. Thoughts?
Why? This mans ex wife already told her that he drugged and molested their child and your wife doesn't care! She doesn't care that he is on a swinger site. Like him, she is a freeloader. Freeloaders don't care.
Showing her this would do no good, like JK said. The way it sounds like, you could show her pictures of him with other women and smoking crack and all kinds of things and she still wouldn't pay attention.
WW called wanted DS for the day I told her no. She asked why obviously forgetting that she ran off him and SS to MIL house the last time she was alone with him. She called me ridiculous and that she wasn't going to do that again. I reminded her that DS doesn't want to be alone with her because of that fear. She claimed I was filling his head with lies. Then I asked about her appointment and she said she didn't want me there. Today I went anyway saw her while she was on the phone and she shouted she doesn't want me there. I told her ok I hope everything is ok and left.
Her exclamation of not wanting me there was while she was on the phone. I guess she was talking to POSOM. The way it sounded was forced and fake as well. It's sad to see her like this. The fog and the way these WWs destroy families is amazingly painful to watch. It's like she doesn't care who she hurts only thing that matters is some guy she met 4 months ago. It's like she is a drug addict. I ignored her comments but they still hurt. This is one hell of a rollercoaster!
Dude, you're confusing a death-spiral with a rollercoaster. I would affirm your right to remain on either, for as long as you want, but would just suggest you be cognizant of the differences in the expected end, okay?
Talked to her today... She wanted to discuss finances and need my signature. Then she asked to see DS I told her yes. She then sent me a text that says us talking isn't doing any good for me and that she is glad I'm accepting the fact she doesn't love me. I'm very upset to say the least but I didn't let my anger go like usual. She called me 6 times then had SIL call cause I ignored them cause I was at work. She wanted to know if she could see I plan on talking to her when I'm not so emotional. Question, she seems to do what I want if I use the fact I have DS. If I would use that as an ultimatum to end her affair and hop on board MB would that be against the principles of the program? I think so but would like to see other thoughts on this.
Well my birthday is soon going to be the worst one yet...
It could be worse. You could have lost your kid and had him molested by OM.
I recently had my birthday. And I felt sad. I felt sad last year too because wife was involved with OM. But we have to learn not to depend on them for our happiness.
If the issue of custody comes up ( and it did with me too) I would suggest you reply with: "I can't break the law" and leave it at that. My wife continually asked me to ignore the court order and I had been previously warned by the Children Services case worker that their agency expected me to follow the court order.
I listened to your radio call again. I forgot about her being suicidal. Basically the court gave you custody the same reason they gave me custody: safety of the child when the mental health of the mother is in question.
I wouldn't trust her alone for 5 minutes with your son after why she pulled. And If she's so sincere then where the hell is step son? In PR!
Well she is mad. Saying she doesn't love me but doesn't hate me. I shouldn't tell her I love her because I don't. Full guilt trip mode. Hanging in there with the Plan A tho. Send her texts that I love her and wishing her a good morning and good nite. no response from them I call at least once a day she doesn't answer calls back attempts to bait an argument I handle it pretty well thanks Lovebusters!
I wouldnt send texts that "I love you" if she asks you not to.that can be considers d disrespect and not listening. I would show her in other ways. That's what I did. But it didn't work LOL
Well she is mad. Saying she doesn't love me but doesn't hate me. I shouldn't tell her I love her because I don't. Full guilt trip mode. Hanging in there with the Plan A tho. Send her texts that I love her and wishing her a good morning and good nite. no response from them I call at least once a day she doesn't answer calls back attempts to bait an argument I handle it pretty well thanks Lovebusters!
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I wouldnt send texts that "I love you" if she asks you not to.that can be considers d disrespect and not listening. I would show her in other ways. That's what I did. But it didn't work LOL
Also makes you appear weak, desparate, totally beta male and unattractive to yor WW. She's doing OM and your going on how you love her.
So, no more ILY. Is it ok to text her through out the day wishing her well? Should I even text her at all? She doesn't love with me and when I call she gets off the phone really quickly. How do I plan A in that situation? I sent flowers awhile ago. Any other ideas?!
Well she came over for Christmas Eve we talked and spent time with DS. Got her a Christmas gift that she loved so I'm filling the pond with those stones. Christmas so far is outstanding DS enjoys his gifts and talked to SS for 2 hours on the phone! Wish it wasn't cold outside so I can go running lol. No relation talk either with her, she brought up old times and we laughed and looked at each others eyes. She enjoyed the food I cooked just to into the hobby of cooking so that felt good. Other than that the same old mess she is still foggy and getting less foggy so that's a good sign, however getting my plan B ducks in a row for the new year! God bless you all!
Send her texts that I love her and wishing her a good morning and good nite. no response from them I call at least once a day she doesn't answer calls back attempts to bait an argument I handle it pretty well thanks Lovebusters!
If any activity is consistently rewarding you with the cold shoulder, STOP doing it that way!
Text her something humorous/silly. When you call, leave an unexpected message. Surprise her by doing the UNexpected.
"Where did the king put his armies? In his sleevies."
Find a web site with puns/jokes/trivia/etc.
"Did you know that the glue on Israeli postage stamps is certified kosher?"
Be different if you want her to respond differently.
Well my snooping reveals they chat through a social media outlet. I'm so angry right now its one thing to know it and to see it in writing hurts even more. I pray and self improve daily. Days like this makes me happy POSOM lives out of state or I might end up at the house lock and loaded! Hard to confront a snake that lives 1000 miles away. I really want to call this SOB and give him a piece of my mind! Then to top it all off he pretends to be a Christian male posting proverbs to said social media site about being loyal and faithful this guy is a real piece of work! I digress venting is over. Following the advice given makin baby steps she actually talked on the phone with me when I called. Anyways goodnite everyone keep fighting the good fight!
From the moment WW left with the boys, there was an infinitesimally small chance that she was ever going to return to you. This new "knowledge" of their communication method cannot be that much of a shock to you.
Think about it: Has she since the great "kidnapping" done ANYTHING of moral or ethical content that was not forced upon her by civic or military justice? ANYTHING?
She has given you one last gift, my friend - the evidence and proof you need to write her off as the skank most of us have suspected she was for months. Take the evidence you have, and deliver it to the IG. Give a copy to your lawyer, press ahead with dissolution, and find the life that you deserve.
From the moment WW left with the boys, there was an infinitesimally small chance that she was ever going to return to you. This new "knowledge" of their communication method cannot be that much of a shock to you.
Think about it: Has she since the great "kidnapping" done ANYTHING of moral or ethical content that was not forced upon her by civic or military justice? ANYTHING?
She has given you one last gift, my friend - the evidence and proof you need to write her off as the skank most of us have suspected she was for months. Take the evidence you have, and deliver it to the IG. Give a copy to your lawyer, press ahead with dissolution, and find the life that you deserve.
IG has everything, so far. Divorce going through its rounds. I am still plan aing to the best of my ability.
Switched up my approach and I'm not getting the cold shoulder anymore. I do not shield her from her consequences I do not bring up the relationship but when she gets emotional I politely let her know that she chose this I talk to her daily for about an hour Improving myself through the gym, cooking classes and anger managment I listen to the radio show every day and I read all the books SAA HNHN LB Learning how to be Martha Stewart of my household aka domestic support I still snoop and I am not shocked per se just angry at her and POSOM I have copies as do my lawyer of all CPS correspondence Enrolled in a mini marathon I attend church on Sunday and actively participate in the service I also spend a lot of time with DS teaching him his basics for preschool I also talk a lot with SS and let him know we love and miss him Also getting her off the lease and also getting things ready for a plan b Separate accounts Asking for car in divorce Locks changed All forms of contact will be cut off on my end IM is set up and on board
from what I'm told by SH she is vacillating between me and POSOM. Which I agree and been told to plan A till divorce is final. Other than the exposure is there anything else I can do to make the affair a living hell?
TD- Again, you need to apply the stick and demand that she end her affair if she wants to recover the marriage Dr. Harley from "What are Plan A & Plan B:
"To insist that the wayward spouse end the affair should not be made with the threat of punishment ("I'm make you suffer if you don't end it"), but rather with the simple fact that it's the most painful experience you've ever had in your life, and if the affair is not ended, your relationship must end with either a separation or divorce. To end the marital relationship is not punishment: It's to protect your own mental and physical health."
Let her know that YOU know that they are still communicating and that it hurts you deeply. Don't tell her how, just tell her.
TD- Again, you need to apply the stick and demand that she end her affair if she wants to recover the marriage Dr. Harley from "What are Plan A & Plan B:
"To insist that the wayward spouse end the affair should not be made with the threat of punishment ("I'm make you suffer if you don't end it"), but rather with the simple fact that it's the most painful experience you've ever had in your life, and if the affair is not ended, your relationship must end with either a separation or divorce. To end the marital relationship is not punishment: It's to protect your own mental and physical health."
Let her know that YOU know that they are still communicating and that it hurts you deeply. Don't tell her how, just tell her.
Vets, any thoughts?
I disagree if doing so would reveal any form of surveillance. You are in an active divorce and the truth is she doesn't care about your feelings. Her Taker is in control. I Suggest you just continue plan a and focus on self Improvement and fatherhood
TD- Again, you need to apply the stick and demand that she end her affair if she wants to recover the marriage Dr. Harley from "What are Plan A & Plan B:
"To insist that the wayward spouse end the affair should not be made with the threat of punishment ("I'm make you suffer if you don't end it"), but rather with the simple fact that it's the most painful experience you've ever had in your life, and if the affair is not ended, your relationship must end with either a separation or divorce. To end the marital relationship is not punishment: It's to protect your own mental and physical health."
Let her know that YOU know that they are still communicating and that it hurts you deeply. Don't tell her how, just tell her.
Vets, any thoughts?
I disagree if doing so would reveal any form of surveillance. You are in an active divorce and the truth is she doesn't care about your feelings. Her Taker is in control. I Suggest you just continue plan a and focus on self Improvement and fatherhood
I agree with Jedi_K. If there is a divorce in progress, you be a stealth fighter.
Found POSOM church going to call and talk to the pastor and expose there as well. To my understanding my WW went to the church with him while she was there. This could be interesting. Meanwhile, DS wants nothing to do with WW. I think that hurts more than anything. Read that thread some good advice thanks BH. As far as giving up I won't I grew up in a divorced home and I promised myself my kids won't go through that. I have to be strong for my kid and WW. I do have an start date for plan B however. I refuse to believe the garbage spewing from WW mouth.
Found POSOM church going to call and talk to the pastor and expose there as well. To my understanding my WW went to the church with him while she was there. This could be interesting.
Interesting, indeed. Stay laser-focused.
PS: The aftermath of this exposure will be a torrent of WW fog-babble-threats-laments- oh-woe-is-me-isms. Enjoy.
It would drive me crazy having to deal with the two-timing for so long and knowing it!
Me as well. But, we are women, not men. I think I could (maybe) Plan A for a week, then I might commit murder.
When reading other people's situations, look at how well they are coping. If the BS (male or female) is not falling into a depression, or fits of anger, and if the BS has an ability to stay calm and not argue, the BS may choose to prolong Plan A under certain circumstances. Even if it would bother us personally to do so!!!
You or I (or Mel for that matter) may not possess the required personality skills to do a lengthy Plan A .... No matter. Our advice should follow THEIR arc of abilities and coping, not ours.
Well I talked to WW via text and I let her know how I felt without lovebusters. She responded with the usual fog babble. Saying I'm jealous, I don't care, etc. Then I told her about DS dream that the POSOM was messing with him and mom didn't help and she took him away from daddy. She text for me to stop and I told her about how SS is abandoned so she can pursue a relationship with POSOM. Apparently I'm happy cause she is depressed and ruining her life her words not mine. She called I didn't answer and left a voicemail crying and sobbing saying don't text me anymore. I kept myself under control and let her know via text I'm sad that she is doing this to our children and how the dishonesty is hurting her and me. As far as exposing to the church should I just call mail a letter or both?
Well didn't get to talk to anyone at the church going to try again tomorrow. Still plan Aing got some results. Kissed WW on New Year's Eve. No disgust or negative reaction. Trying to stay calm and avoid angry outbursts and lovebusters. Keeping up the good fight! God bless you all for your support
UPDATE Spoke with POSOM ex wife. She is sending me papers filed by CPS in his home state showing his history of child abuse and why there is a restraining order against him so he can't see his own children. She also gave me the phone number to his fiance/baby mother. She also stated he has another girl pregnant! This guy is a real piece of work! I will be callin her soon, the church pastor is out till Monday so I will have to hold out on that. WW wants me to help her install a MMO video game we used to play together. I asked her why would she want to play that game when she is done with me?! I believe that was a bonehead move it kinda just slipped out. She didn't respond, is this normal behavior of WWs? She is surrounding herself with things we used to do together i.e. listening to certain musical artists, watching anime and certain tv shows, keeping my old poems and stuff animals I gave her. Are these positive signs? NG I know you out there! Also, I plan on Plan A till divorce is final per Dr. H!
She misses you, she just doesn't want to admit it. You have a good alley in POSOM's XW, just be VERY careful. You don't want to accidentally fall into an affair, do you?
UPDATE Spoke with POSOM ex wife. She is sending me papers filed by CPS in his home state showing his history of child abuse and why there is a restraining order against him so he can't see his own children. She also gave me the phone number to his fiance/baby mother. She also stated he has another girl pregnant! This guy is a real piece of work! I will be callin her soon, the church pastor is out till Monday so I will have to hold out on that. WW wants me to help her install a MMO video game we used to play together. I asked her why would she want to play that game when she is done with me?! I believe that was a bonehead move it kinda just slipped out. She didn't respond, is this normal behavior of WWs? She is surrounding herself with things we used to do together i.e. listening to certain musical artists, watching anime and certain tv shows, keeping my old poems and stuff animals I gave her. Are these positive signs? NG I know you out there! Also, I plan on Plan A till divorce is final per Dr. H!
Your right karma. I don't and I'm taking precautions. I'm putting together my custody package so if this goes to a legal battle I got my ducks in a row. Not planning on showing the WW.
Old maxim: "If you can't say something nice about someone, say nothing at all!" ...things we used to do together i.e. listening to certain musical artists, watching anime and certain tv shows, keeping my old poems and stuff ...Are these positive signs? NG?
Found POSOM church going to call and talk to the pastor and expose there as well. To my understanding my WW went to the church with him while she was there. This could be interesting. ...
Sorry to be late chiming in on this, TD. Not sure what kind of church it is, but you might want to check out their website & find out about their governance structure. They've probably got some sort of lay leadership committee or board of elders, etc., and when exposing to organizations (whether churches or employers), it's often helpful if you send separate letters to multiple people within the leadership, with "cc" lines on each letter so that each recipient will see that the others have also gotten the letter. That makes it less likely that any one individual will be tempted to 'sweep the matter under the carpet.' With something like a church exposure, the outcome will be less helpful if the only thing that happens is that the pastor has a discreet, 1-on-1 chat with POSOM. (Although even that outcome would be better than nothing.) The more sets of informed eyes there are on POSOM every time he walks into that church, the better.
Thanks and I understand, just packed up WW clothes and boxed them up will let her know to come get her stuff. Canceling insurance on car as well, its time for hardball and tough love! Plan B coming soon. Allow me to vent I never hated someone so much in my life (OM). I'm starting to lose love for my wife as well so plan b will help me immensely. It hurts to even look at her as she pretends she is all well when she is torn up worse than me. I want to ask why but no answer is good enough. I hope sometime down the line she will realize the pain she cause the most important man and boys in her life. I'm gonna need some prayers for this, the day is very bad.
Asking why right now is not a good idea anyway, you'll get ten years' worth of fog. As someone here once posted, it's like banging your head in the oven -- you get hurt and the oven doesn't care.
You seem to have a good grasp on when to start Plan B. Make sure you begin to check and eliminate all holes that she could get through when you put it into effect (IE get a good IM) so she has no way to contact you save when she is ready to be a good wife again.
I'm sorry you're suffering so much right now, TD. You have nothing to deserve the [censored] sandwich that WW prepared for you.
"Why do bad things happen to good people?" Over how many millennia has that question been pondered, to no real effect or answer? All those innocents can do is continue behaving as morally and properly as is in their ability, recover and move on. Doesn't sound like much of a fair trade, does it?
In the movie Sleepless in Seattle, the Tom Hanks character explains that his method of getting by after his wife's death is to get up, brush his teeth and start the day. It is only his faith that today's pain would be somewhat less tomorrow, and less again the next day that keeps him going. I can't promise you Meg Ryan will someday be your reward for persevering. It might not even be a woman. It might be that your DS will grow up and be a great young man will a promising future of his own. But there will be a reward for you if you hold on to your own values, and get up tomorrow morning.
After reading the link about plan b is there anyone who would like to be my IM? My family & friends are too emotionally invested to be neutral. My father would be neutral but if she wants to reconcile he wouldn't tell me. JK I know you volunteered before still up for the job?
Would be an honor sir. I boxed up her personal items and let her know she has one week to get them. If they aren't picked up in a week they will be sent to a mutual friends house where she can get them. Have a court soon after that I'm moving to Plan B. The love I have for her is waning and Plan B will be the perfect thing to keep the balance steady. I know my wife and myself. Using you as an IM will stop her calling me and emailing me. Three weeks she will be having a hard time with this and be willing to hear or see me. I tried plan A till divorce but I can't do it I'm emotionally spent and my anger towards her is building.
I know you've read the Plan B documentation here. I would suggest (having been through this twice before) that your discipline in NOT letting WW get to you around me will be the greatest test.
Have you composed you Plan B letter? Post it here for review, and leave room for my contact information. I'll send a note to the appropriate admin to get my info to you.
Beware that just because you have an IM doesn't mean she will stop trying to contact you. Emotionally unstable people dont respect boundaries. Be prepared by blocking her number; block email( change if needed) , block social media (actually just disable your social media during divorce anyways)
Would be an honor sir. I boxed up her personal items and let her know she has one week to get them. If they aren't picked up in a week they will be sent to a mutual friends house where she can get them. Have a court soon after that I'm moving to Plan B. The love I have for her is waning and Plan B will be the perfect thing to keep the balance steady. I know my wife and myself. Using you as an IM will stop her calling me and emailing me. Three weeks she will be having a hard time with this and be willing to hear or see me. I tried plan A till divorce but I can't do it I'm emotionally spent and my anger towards her is building.
I'm glad you're taking NG up on his offer to be your IM.
I left my copy of surviving the affair over my father's house. Could someone post the example of a PBL and I can fine tune it to my situation?! Looked over the site for an hour and can't find it. This is actually the first forum I ever been a part of!
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with POSOM possible.
I foolishly pursued my career and neglected your feelings and emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake. My undiagnosed depression was a reason and not an excuse. I have owned my weaknesses and work tirelessly to make them my strengths.
I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with POSOM for once and for all. There isn't room for two men in your heart.
Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you.
I will also not be able to help you financially.
A friend of mine has agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit DS as the court states I will not be there when you do.
If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through my friend who can be reached via email @ xxxxx@yahoo.com.
I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering and pain I have endured because of your relationship with POSOM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. Please understand that your dishonesty is a knife to my soul.
I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.
I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. I want us to transparent windows to each other souls without any secrets or deception.
We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend as well.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing POSOM.
With my love, TD
POSOM; I love WW with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance.
I would make the conditions for her return clear... Sum up the stuff she has to do to ensure NO CONTACT with POSOM, before you would even consider talking to her.
I'm glad you've taken NG up on his IM offer. I know you wanted to Plan A until D, but you have given it your best shot, now its time to focus on your healing and enjoy the peace of Plan B.
TD, you should send me an e-mail from the e-address you want me to use. If you have WW's e-address, that would be useful as well. Also, when you send the PBL, please send me a copy.
I was on the show in November. Do you think having WW listen to my radio show segments would help? I was mulling over rather or not to include that in my PBL.
Could there possibly be anything revealed in the recording that she does not already know?
Dude, you're about thisclose to going to Plan B. If there were any evidence that she gives a [censored] about you, DS, SS or integrity, you'd have seen it by now.
Well exposed to the OM church's pastor via phone and sending 3 letters recounting the events of this affair. pastor stated what I already know he's an abusive womanizing pig. He and his fianc� have been on and off for 3 years and have a 3 year old daughter. Go figure! He also claims to be addicted to sex which the pastor does not believe. He isn't a member of the church his mother has been 10 years and he sometimes attends. Also, that he only runs in there 5k fundraisers in order to pick up women as most of the participants arent part of the church. Pastor offered me to have WW contact her. So here is where I am, should I let WW know the pastor of POSOM church wants to talk to her or keep it to myself?!
Well exposed to the OM church's pastor via phone and sending 3 letters recounting the events of this affair. pastor stated what I already know he's an abusive womanizing pig. He and his fianc� have been on and off for 3 years and have a 3 year old daughter. Go figure! He also claims to be addicted to sex which the pastor does not believe. He isn't a member of the church his mother has been 10 years and he sometimes attends. Also, that he only runs in there 5k fundraisers in order to pick up women as most of the participants arent part of the church. Pastor offered me to have WW contact her. So here is where I am, should I let WW know the pastor of POSOM church wants to talk to her or keep it to myself?!
Personally, I wouldn't say a word. Let her walk in blindsided and have her feet put to the fire in the church in front of the pastor and God.
You give her/them forewarning and they will just preempt by going somewhere else or not at all.
I want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and I will NOT stay in a loveless marriage. I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take:
1. End all contact with OM for life - send him letter that we write together and is mailed by me.
2. No more nights apart or going out without each other -we create a healthy, integrated lifestyle.
5. Complete honesty about your affair<s> � passing a polygraph
6. Commit to a program for marital recovery/counseling of my choosing.
7. No more flirting with OP
8. Timeline of the affair
9. Write a letter to all our friends and family apologizing for your affair and own it 100% This provides a crucial layer of acountability for you. We expose the affair to people whose esteem you value.
11. give me all the information he requests.
11. You be completely truthful and honest with me.
12. You tell me when the affair (including the emotional-only part of it) began, when and how the affair ended, even if he doesn't ask directly.
13. You give me all passwords to e-mail & phone accounts used by you to contact the other man, and you change your email addresses & cellphone numbers to ones that the other man won't know.
14. You close any secret accounts in my presence
15. You have no more contact with the other man, ever.
16. If the other man is married, then you make sure the affair is exposed to his fianc�/girlfriend/wife
Pastor offered me to have WW contact her. So here is where I am, should I let WW know the pastor of POSOM church wants to talk to her or keep it to myself?!
Well, personally I would write down the first & last name and phone number. (omit the word pastor) Hand the message to WW saying "This woman asked to speak to you."
1. End all contact with OM for life..... 15. You have no more contact with the other man, ever.
3. Complete transparency - cell phone, passwords,finances etc 13. You give me all passwords to e-mail & phone accounts.....
4. No more opposite sex friendships 7. No more flirting with OP
5. Complete honesty about your affair<s> � passing a polygraph 8. Timeline of the affair 11. give me all the information he requests. 12. You tell me when the affair.....
I want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and I will NOT stay in a loveless marriage. I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take:
1. End all contact with OM and any mutual friends of his for life, send him a no contact letter that we write together and is mailed by me
2. You give me all passwords to e-mail & phone accounts used by you to contact the other man, and you change your email addresses & cellphone numbers to ones that the other man won't know.
3. No more opposite sex friendships
4. Timeline of the affair and information I request. when and how the affair ended.
5. You be completely truthful and honest with me.
6. Write a letter to all our friends and family apologizing for your affair and own it 100% This provides a crucial layer of acountability for you. We expose the affair to people whose esteem you value.
7. No more nights apart or going out without each other -we create a healthy, integrated lifestyle.
8. Commit to a program for marital recovery/counseling of my choosing.
9. If the other man is married, then we make sure the affair is exposed to his fianc�/girlfriend/wife.
Ok going to plan b next week. Waiting for WW to take bills out of her name and then going dark! Reading the threads here I noticed one thing. When WW is invoked in a long distance affair exposure isn't as effective. Because the WW keeps the fantasy alive by saying this in their head. "When I move there with POSOM our relationship will be different." As is the case with my battle for marriage. Just conjecture, thoughts?!
Just wait it out. You'll be surprised at how much less stress you will have in plan b.
Just have a plan in place on what to do if she shows up at the home. Also ensure anyone watching your son knows to call the police if she tries to take him. She is so cagey she may try to kidnap him
Update and its a doozy! While at church MIL calls me and leaves a message about how hard it is raising SS and how he hasn't been in school for 4 months because he doesn't speak the language. How FIL and WW great grandmother are sick and she can't take care of SS. She wanted me to call WW and relay the message.
I told her I haven't talk to WW in 3 days. That she told me she loves POSOM. MIL wanted me to give her the number to POSOM church so she can speak with the pastor to hear about how awesome he is LOL. I talked with SS and he is very angry with his mom. I told him to let her know and I would love to have him here but I can't because of the law. I told him everything that has happened and he is furious. He doesn't understand how she won't answer his calls but responds to POSOM calls. He doesn't understand how she could hurt DS, him and me with her lies about POSOM and about me being abusive.
What should I do? Get SS back home were he belongs and plan b or plan b without SS. I don't want him to feel abandoned. At the same time I'm tired of being hurt and getting close to AO. I called POSOM of course no answer. This dude is a fricking punk. His ex and pastor told me he isn't confrontational and in short his muscles are for the ladies. COWARD! I'm not having a good day I want to hulk smash this loser into submission. Anyways thoughts?! God bless
Update and its a doozy! While at church MIL calls me and leaves a message about how hard it is raising SS and how he hasn't been in school for 4 months because he doesn't speak the language. How FIL and WW great grandmother are sick and she can't take care of SS. She wanted me to call WW and relay the message.
I told her I haven't talk to WW in 3 days. That she told me she loves POSOM. MIL wanted me to give her the number to POSOM church so she can speak with the pastor to hear about how awesome he is LOL. I talked with SS and he is very angry with his mom. I told him to let her know and I would love to have him here but I can't because of the law. I told him everything that has happened and he is furious. He doesn't understand how she won't answer his calls but responds to POSOM calls. He doesn't understand how she could hurt DS, him and me with her lies about POSOM and about me being abusive.
What should I do? Get SS back home were he belongs and plan b or plan b without SS. I don't want him to feel abandoned. At the same time I'm tired of being hurt and getting close to AO. I called POSOM of course no answer. This dude is a fricking punk. His ex and pastor told me he isn't confrontational and in short his muscles are for the ladies. COWARD! I'm not having a good day I want to hulk smash this loser into submission. Anyways thoughts?! God bless
Can you tell MIL that you would love to have SS?
If she wants to have WW sign a note giving you the right, that you will get SS ASAP.
Maybe if SS and MIL both tell WW that SS wants to go there and MIL says the same?
Ill do that I'll let MIL know I want SS and ask lawyer to have her give me custody of him. He's an awesome kid. WWs baby father (SS dad) was extremely abusive and we she told him that I was abusive he defended me. I love that lil guy like he was my own. Ill try and keep you updated.
I can take care of them emotionally and financially. MIL wants me to have SS. I asked her all through December that SS needs to be with DS because he is 9 and needs a good father figure around him 24/7. No offense to the awesome moms out there but a woman can't raise a boy to manhood. Especially an emotionally unstable WW in the grips of a predatory POSOM. WW isn't taking my calls probably crying her eyes out and self loathing. For some reason talking to me about real issues makes her feel worse. Guilt is a mfer.
Call Children Services in PR and locally and update them. My uncle, years ago married a woman that turned out to be a rotten woman. She had a daughter from a previous man and when she left my uncle to dance in nude bars he cared for the daughter and actually had to buy her from his wife.
He paid the ex wife child support and in exchange got to raise her daughter. Today she is a married Christian woman. There is no telling what would have happened if his "foggy" wife kept the girl.
I will be honest with you: I think your wife is a bad apple. Many of the posters will disagree and say ; " We are all capable of this and it's fog". I respond that it's NEGLECT and ABANDONMENT.
I thought the MIL didn't speak any English? She sounds like she's insane to call you and say she loves the OM and approves of him? Her family probably is full of sexual immoral behavior that you have been unaware of.
I think Children Services is your best help at this point and I would not entertain the idea of paying off your wife. Try using the system first. Let MIL face charges then see how far she is willing to go to continue aiding and abetting kidnapping.
When my uncle was a young man the mother could be a whore and the courts would give her custody. Today things are different.
My wife's OM also had a serious criminal history. And she is living with him now. I have full custody of my 3 kids and I think that you will end up in the same position. I reached a point where it was too much and I surrendered my wife to God. And accepted the responsibilities that He left me with.
Okay, I'm sure I missed it as I'm not here that much anymore. However, I'm wondering why your MIL is trying to help you now when she was complicit in this "kidnapping" of your kids from the beginning.
MIL knows nothing of POSOM. My WW had a abusive relationship before me in which MIL didn't help her in at all. I believe my WW told MIL I was abusive to her and the kids and took her word as law without talking to me. Overcompensating for her past ignorance of my WW plight. The whole time my WW has been telling MIL she doesn't talk to POSOM and I'm in fact crazy. MIL is an enabler due to her inaction to let her daughter know that she is wrong and making a mistake. She doesn't know POSOM and has not said she loves him. WW loves him (some twisted form of lust).
The poop hits the fan when SS is too expensive and emotionally draining to be cared for. MIL now realizes she was lied to. I received a text saying she is angry with WW after our talk. She speaks a little English enough to convey her thoughts. In order for MIL to embrace the truth I gave her POSOM church number as MIL is very active in her own church. Maybe hearing the same from a pastor will stop her enabling her daughter. I sent the exposure letter to her family but WW denied the relationship and called me abusive.
Her family took her side because she is their blood and she hasn't lied in the past. Now they see it for what it is. JK I understand your POV but I don't think my WW is in the same boat as yours was. She sees what she is doing but I feel she is addicted to POSOM because I didn't meet her ENs. That's a reason not an excuse. The high of getting those met and the rush of stealing another "woman's man" has consumed her. She is making emotionally charged decisions based on her need to be with POSOM. I believe she is redeemable but I'm at the point of AOs so I need plan b to protect my love bank and love for her.
Wanted to do that this week but with this revelation should I hold off? POSOM won't answer his phone when I call and she won't either. Ill use the courts but I feel she will give me custody because she knows her wrongs but refuse to admit said facts. She is a escaper, I realize that now thanks to the radio show. When things get tough she runs. Now she has nowhere to run so she ignores the problems she caused because ignorance is bliss.
Okay, I'm sure I missed it as I'm not here that much anymore. However, I'm wondering why your MIL is trying to help you now when she was complicit in this "kidnapping" of your kids from the beginning.
Ouch viper that hurts that your not following the extra salty pretzel with twists and turns that has become my life. Please read more as I see your posts on other threads and value your advice unlike some BHs here.
Okay, I'm sure I missed it as I'm not here that much anymore. However, I'm wondering why your MIL is trying to help you now when she was complicit in this "kidnapping" of your kids from the beginning.
Ouch viper that hurts that your not following the extra salty pretzel with twists and turns that has become my life. Please read more as I see your posts on other threads and value your advice unlike some BHs here.
It's not that I don't want to follow your sitch a lot more closely, it's just that circumstances I'm having to live under don't allow me much time to do so.
You're are in awesome hands. Having NG as your PB conduit couldn't be a better choice if you tried. I can assure you, that guy won't let anything get passed along that doesn't need to be passed.
Not sure how to answer your PB timing now that this has occurred. If there is a chance you could get custody of your SS, then you might want to step back and look at the bigger picture. The likelihood is remote, but the mere possibility would be enough for me to pump the brakes if there is even the slightest chance this could happen. I was in the same shoes as you almost a decade ago....
I lost a child that I was raising as my own, and to this day I miss him to hell and back. If there is a real chance of making this happen for you and him, then I would back off on the PB launch until you find out exactly what your options and chances are of making this a reality. For your SS's sake, I hope you can. He needs one stable parent in his life, and we all know who the unstable one is here.
I wouldn't bank on this though, but I would still explore my options. However, it would appear that what was once an enemy (MIL) is now an ally, so who knows what could happen.
You have absolutely nothing to lose by trying, and your SS has everything to gain as well.
Let me ask: What does she offer you? Take a good look at her actions. If you are called to active duty and have your legs blown off and can't meet her emotional needs this is how she will respond because you won't be able to meet her needs? I hope that doesn't happen because if you were bedridden she may just abandone you and let you die. She is responsible for her actions. She chose to abandon her son in PR and completely neglect him to meet her selfish needs of some creep?
I look at it like this: we have been married 5 years and date 1 year. This has been going on for a small part of our marriage. I know her potential of being an awesome wife and mother who supports her family. She has many qualities I won't list because of anonmity, due to her sloppy nature ofconcealing this 2nd life affirms my belief she isn't a serial cheater. I have a lot to gain in keeping this marriage as does she but like Dr. H says many times on the show WS don't think using logic. I know that when this POSOM shows his true colors she will snap out of the fog.
What I don't know is when that will happen and if it does will I even want her back. I can say yes today and feel something opposite when the situation arises. The common cause is POSOM and her f'ed decisions so she can be in fantasyland with him. Once that a-hole is out of the picture our marriage will recover and she comes clean admits her faults that led to this destructive behavior and corrects them. I will hold off plan b till I get SS custody situated. Her actions are deplorable and toxic yes but no different from any other wayward in the other threads on this forum. This is truly a crack like addiction.
Okay, I'm sure I missed it as I'm not here that much anymore. However, I'm wondering why your MIL is trying to help you now when she was complicit in this "kidnapping" of your kids from the beginning.
Ouch viper that hurts that your not following the extra salty pretzel with twists and turns that has become my life. Please read more as I see your posts on other threads and value your advice unlike some BHs here.
It's not that I don't want to follow your sitch a lot more closely, it's just that circumstances I'm having to live under don't allow me much time to do so.
You're are in awesome hands. Having NG as your PB conduit couldn't be a better choice if you tried. I can assure you, that guy won't let anything get passed along that doesn't need to be passed.
Not sure how to answer your PB timing now that this has occurred. If there is a chance you could get custody of your SS, then you might want to step back and look at the bigger picture. The likelihood is remote, but the mere possibility would be enough for me to pump the brakes if there is even the slightest chance this could happen. I was in the same shoes as you almost a decade ago....
I lost a child that I was raising as my own, and to this day I miss him to hell and back. If there is a real chance of making this happen for you and him, then I would back off on the PB launch until you find out exactly what your options and chances are of making this a reality. For your SS's sake, I hope you can. He needs one stable parent in his life, and we all know who the unstable one is here.
I wouldn't bank on this though, but I would still explore my options. However, it would appear that what was once an enemy (MIL) is now an ally, so who knows what could happen.
You have absolutely nothing to lose by trying, and your SS has everything to gain as well.
I'm sorry to hear your plight and that's understandable. I will do everything in my power to do right by SS.
Since you're going to expose yourself to this toxicity for the sake of SS -- be sure to have an outlet. We're here for you, but be sure to have something constructive to do with the anger that's sure to be inflicted.
"Well Pio, I think that you are right about the addiction being to the affair and not the OP, I have long said that really OM could have been anyone, even Bozo the Clown...
Affairs are about escapism...Funny thing is, what a sicked out WS doesn't realize is that it is actually themselves that they are running from...But instead of focusing on the inside and looking at what's going on there, they seek happiness from without, where it is NEVER to be found...
For most of my life, I existed in daydreams, it was here on this board that I actually "verbalized" that for the first time, honestly, it had never occured to me before-it was but a mechanism/coping skill for me...my affair was a real life daydream turned nightmare for me...Anytime that I was sad, angry, depressed...any negative emotion, I went inside myself to escape to a fantasyland of "happiness"...I constantly, (and still do this at times-getting better though) would say, "I'll be happy when ________.", rather than choosing to be happy in the present...The difference for me is that I am aware of this now, and I put myself in check when it happens...same goes for all the wasted daydreaming time...I am choosing to be happy, because now I realize that it is a choice-and also that life is a mystery to be lived and not a problem to be solved...
It's wonderful that you be able to learn all this, so that you can understand and be healthy yourself...Sadly, no matter how much you learn and grow, Gemela will have to do that for herself...But you know that...
Are you still in Plan A til August? How's that going? What are you working on?"
This is taken from someone else's thread and I feel it describes my WW perfectly. It was posted by Mrs. Wondering. She isn't in love with the POSOM but the affair it's escapism. Not defending her or making excuses but educating myself with this abusive phenomenon that's destroying my marriage and life.
TD- I've been following your thread. I'm not going to conjecture on the reasons why WS get into affairs. You've been here long enough to know that the vets will tell you that the real reason is that they have poor boundaries. Why not escape into a fantasy that involves a better marriage and a beautiful life with your spouse???
What I wanted to ask, as I think your WW is probably most in line with my WH on the level of horrific acts done during the affair (including some criminal behaviour i.e. kidnapping your DS)is if you are still willing to reconcile and why? I wonder if there is anyone on this board who has had to deal with an abusive/substance abuse situation and had a spouse that made a turn around after professional help. I would like to know about it. (t/j, Sorry!)
I'm willing to reconcile because by nature I'm an optimist I guess. I love her and seeing and reading other folks stories shows me the MB concepts work. I also like a challenge. This is a real challenge that has awesome rewards in the long run. Also, before I got to this site I was intimidated by the situation as you may have seen in my early posts.
Now since I have a plan and filed for divorce I feel relieved! Before I was angry still am a I guess but not so much. There was I time I bought a plane ticket and was going to kill that POSOM. Now I know for a fact when she is hit with the reality of this "lurve" as ML puts it I know she will be back. If she came to me today and was willing to follow the concepts on this site I would say he'll yeah. But tomorrow I don't know what I would say. Another reason I never planned on being a family man but when I finally did I realized I was made for it. Plus I fight for this marriage to ensure my kids see their father cares about them and their mother and if the shoe was on the other foot I know she would do the same for me. Lame I know but I know my wife. This isn't her at all its some twisted crack head alien that swapped bodies with her. Also I don't believe in giving up.
Some more questions for you.... How have your parents reacted to WW? Sorry if I missed it before. My family and extended family are extremely against reconciliation. If that were an issue for you how would you approach it?
My dad is supportive of the relationship because he is a good father. My mom side (parents divorced because my mom is a cheater) are against it. Simple I will tell those who aren't a friend of my marriage she is my wife I chose her if you can't accept me then stay out of our lives. I feel when I exchanged vows my immediate family comes first.
Thanks for the response. That's what I'm thinking my family comes first. It would probably be a year or more staying apart from WH, I think if we were to start dating again. I am waiting for him to complete drug tests and do anger management classes before I start up communication. I think it will be a long wait. Are you still planning on going into plan B soon?
My WW got a court order for visitation of DS. I want her to be around DS but supervised. She has 3 visits 2 supervised by a visitation center and 1 supervised by me. Her choice not mine. This fugs up my plan B plans. Is this a good sign she wants to be around me?! Or should I be wary? I need an explanation on this please! This has me very angry!
Your call, dude, but what court in the world thinks it has the power to order you to be around her? Your lawyer, if such be your preference, must fight this nonsense.
My WW got a court order for visitation of DS. I want her to be around DS but supervised. She has 3 visits 2 supervised by a visitation center and 1 supervised by me. Her choice not mine. This fugs up my plan B plans. Is this a good sign she wants to be around me?! Or should I be wary? I need an explanation on this please! This has me very angry!
Bring a video camera and record the entire visit. Never say a word except "Time's up.". She will have the order changed to 3 supervised visits by someone else.
(If the order cannot be otherwise be changed quickly enough.)
My suggestion is intended to function as a last resort. My suggestion is both manipulative and insensitive. WW will hate it. That's for certain.
My alternative suggestion is to bring a third person to supervise the visit. Someone who knows how to operate your video camera.
Maybe it's pointless but why would a WW do that?! She has told me she was done and wants a divorce. She hates me so she says but wants to be around me? Should I use these visits to Plan A? I haven't sent the PBL yet. Today is going to be one of the "bad days". I wish this was over so bad. It's crazy just 6 months ago we all had a family outing took pictures. I hugged and kissed her and we were a family. I hate days like this!
Are we taking a poll? My guess is she does it just to show you she can - can still annoy you, can still dictate elements of your life, can still demonstrate her control over events.
I will go so far as to say that another example is she will keep SS stuck in that purgatory as long as possible just to torture you.
Well my good friend, I think your right. I also believe its a extreme attempt at cake eating. I have been Plan A and being nice, supportive of her condition and denouncing the affair. She then got mad when I denied her request to be around DS alone and I have heard from her in a week, then this pops up. Me thinks someone is missing the family life and expects me to be nice so she can get her TD fix, then back to POSOM for that fix. Still undecided on what to do until I meet with my lawyer later this week. Leaning towards, Plan A till the next court date then going dark.
Well that is a rough approximation of the program recommendation, but I gotta be honest with you, dude, your ability to Plan A the child abusing, kidnapping, cake-eating, sticking-it-in-your face [censored] woman that remains Mrs TD is a marvel to me.
I am marveled at myself when this first started the old me would of been very angry and made stupid mistakes. Plus the POSOM lives in another state so makes it easier for me.
Maybe it's pointless but why would a WW do that?! She has told me she was done and wants a divorce. She hates me so she says but wants to be around me? Should I use these visits to Plan A? I haven't sent the PBL yet. Today is going to be one of the "bad days". I wish this was over so bad. It's crazy just 6 months ago we all had a family outing took pictures. I hugged and kissed her and we were a family. I hate days like this!
Yes you should plan A. You cannot plan B if you are in the same room as her. What about the protection order? Is it still valid?
Yes but they made an exception so she can see our son. I wanted to supervise a visit but that was before I decided to plan b. anyways POSOM mom called me and said I should pray to God and she doesn't want to get involved. Seems to me she has been doing that a long time, enabling her children. I let her know I feel her son is a rotten POS ruining a family and not taking care of kids. I asked her to confront him about it and she refused.
Well that's not much surprise. I wrote a letter to my POSOM mom and no reply. No reply from ANY of his family. Except for one relative that told me to "grow a pair"
I would've asked her if she prayed her scummy son would go to heaven. When she answered yes, I'd have explained I was sent by God to facilitate his arrival. And then hung up.
One huge regret I have was not taking the car keys, license plates, and slashing tires when my wife left and I knew about it.
I almost referenced your case in my "call to action" note, but didn't want to dredge up dark memories for you, my friend. I rue so much not being more forceful in my notes to you back then.
That was all my fault. I wasn't thinking and was scared of my WW's anger. Out of all this that is my biggest regret. If you need to reference mistakes I made please feel free to. If I can't save my marriage I can sleep well knowing my experience has helped others. Sending out the new exposure with evidence to the POSOM church, MIL and great grandmother today. Feel relieved that I got all the information I need.
Sent the evidence in the mail. Spoke with lawyer about various issues and feeling alot better about my stance. Next week I am going to have to be prepared for the anger that comes from a real exposure not some letter with no evidence that I sent before. Can't wait, yay.
Well WW told her MIL not to let me talk to SS. She is spinning all kinds of tales about the exposure. SS called me anyways to speak to DS, smart boy. He told me about the no talk order and how WW said she will get him next month. Another lie she is stalling and keeping that poor child in limbo. She will have him living with POSOM who lives with his mother. While she is there, that poor boy is going to be abused by POSOM who doesn't take care of his own sons. I'm furious but its out of my hands now. Pray for my family everyone. God bless.
Well she came to see DD went ok I supposed got her a small gift and she liked it. Smiled then realized it was from me then said something snotty was kinda of hilarious. Making progress I guess. Thanks for your prayers!
WW wanted to see DD again today but wanted to do it outside the house. Her reasoning was she didn't want an altercation. I politely declined and said there wouldn't be one. Any thoughts in what she is thinking? My thoughts are she is feeling guilty about the situation and being in our home is dredging it up. Need a decoder please!
Nothing new. Lost another 10lbs! Working out very hard in the gym. DS got sick and had to stay home from work to take care of him. Mailed her a letter with a certificate to get a massage at a spa and a rose. I got a response about what my motive is and I replied with "I know you have back pains thought this may help." Any good gift ideas for valentine's day since I probably won't spend it with her? Should I just ignore it and treat it as another day?
Thanks I was thinking of DS and I making a card and getting chocolates as well. In the card include a picture of WW and me before the affair. Too much?
LMAO! NG I like you were both aholes but I'm in plan A and that's not very plan A like now is it?! Enjoy the Super Bowl everyone! If your following my thread sorry about the nonsensical posts just keeping my habit of posting everyday. God bless!
I would not send a valentine card. If anything send a picture of your family with a note: "I am willing to work with you to create a loving romantic marriage and get our family back together"
I would not reward her with chocolate and a spa. She's abandoned her son in puerto Rico. Is children services going to make him attend school? What is he doing all day?
Thanks I was thinking of DS and I making a card and getting chocolates as well. In the card include a picture of WW and me before the affair. Too much?
I would not include a photo. That is trying to force WW to admit there were good times between the two of you.
Where is the stick in your plan A. You need to try and meet WW needs. You also have to make WW face the consequences of her banging the OM.
Example, When WW comebacks you do not pick WW up at the air port. It is WW's problem to find a way to get back home. You calmlt tell WW that being she has OM in her life, she has made it the OM's problem to help her with her problems.
WW you can not have two men taking care of you at the same time.
Don't know about SS. I follow that mantra road. Her ENs are typical of females. Affection conversation etc. We had a nice conversation last time we talked and I got the card and spa for affection. Next time I will try to be physically affectionate. We will see how that goes. So by forcing her to see the good times is a bad thing? I get the feeling she is deleting all the fun times in our marriage aka rewriting and I thought the picture would help.
got her a small gift and she liked it. Smiled then realized it was from me then said something snotty
I haven't read your whole thread, so I apologize in advance if I am completely off base...
It seems like your attempts to deposit love bank units are simply irritating her. If that's the case, you could be making an unintentional withdrawal each time you attempt to make a deposit. I'm getting the impression that she is interpreting your Plan A as a sign of weakness/desperation, and that is a major turn off for her.
Don't know about SS. I follow that mantra road. Her ENs are typical of females. Affection conversation etc. We had a nice conversation last time we talked and I got the card and spa for affection. Next time I will try to be physically affectionate. We will see how that goes. So by forcing her to see the good times is a bad thing? I get the feeling she is deleting all the fun times in our marriage aka rewriting and I thought the picture would help.
Tranquil, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. About 3 weeks into my Plan B, I put together a photo album of me and Kiss during our happier times. On our honeymoon, on our family vacation, in Rhode Island where we would spend a week. I left it in a gift bag on the doorstep of his "love shack" and off I went with the kids. Within a couple of days, kiss broke it off with his skank and started to work on the marriage. Not a Plan B move but I believe it made a difference. Of course, I don't know for sure. It would be nice to have Kiss weigh in on that.
I say send the picture, send a few pictures or a photo album of the family. It won't hurt and it might make a difference. Either way, it's a nice gesture for her to have something to remember the family.
I disagree JC, I think she is baiting me to be an angry and abusive to justify her claims. The fact I am not is making her second guess her choices. She compliments me 2-3 times everytime I see her then immediately counters it with a fake snotty comment. "Your new outfit is nice you lost a lot of weight! Your pants are wrinkled though. "
Makes me think she hasn't shut the door but her fugged up loyalty to POSOM makes her apprehensive. She also stated that i should be happy cause im getting what i want (divorce). I politely said I want my family together and for us to work on the marriage but I will not stand by and let you lay up with some POSOM and hurt me and whenever she is ready for NC we can do it. She went on to say that I never wanted to be married and she was a trophy wife. I said no you weren't and that I will do what it takes to fix our marriage and expect her to do the same and if we can change the subject unless she agrees to NC POSOM. Either way she is still on the fence and Plan A till divorce is my best bet. I will do the pictures because I think its a good thing and won't hurt, who knows maybe she will have a turn around like kiss?
I disagree JC, I think she is baiting me to be an angry and abusive to justify her claims. The fact I am not is making her second guess her choices. She compliments me 2-3 times everytime I see her then immediately counters it with a fake snotty comment. "Your new outfit is nice you lost a lot of weight! Your pants are wrinkled though. "
Makes me think she hasn't shut the door but her fugged up loyalty to POSOM makes her apprehensive. She also stated that i should be happy cause im getting what i want (divorce). I politely said I want my family together and for us to work on the marriage but I will not stand by and let you lay up with some POSOM and hurt me and whenever she is ready for NC we can do it. She went on to say that I never wanted to be married and she was a trophy wife. I said no you weren't and that I will do what it takes to fix our marriage and expect her to do the same and if we can change the subject unless she agrees to NC POSOM. Either way she is still on the fence and Plan A till divorce is my best bet. I will do the pictures because I think its a good thing and won't hurt, who knows maybe she will have a turn around like kiss?
Since I haven't read your whole thread, I am pretty clueless. You've already figured out how OM is making LB deposits with her, and you've been trying to out-do him in those areas. Right? Obviously, I'm not referring to supplying her with pot.
Also, I'm thinking you could easily out-do OM when it comes to meeting her needs for financial security and family commitment. As Dr. Harley says, the children's father "has the inside track" on meeting his wife's need for family commitment. Maybe you should focus a lot of effort on meeting that need, because OM can't really compete with you in that area.
Yup that's what I'm doing, DD 4 knows abc and how to count and recognize numbers thanks to his father lol! WW compliments me in those areas every time she sees us together. I'm better financially as well since I make way more money than POSOM. I just have to stay the course that's all my impatience isn't helping at all. Honestly, I don't see a divorce being final but that could be my optimism getting the best of me
A card, flowers, and a family picture would be a nice valentine's gift, if you two are still talking and your plan a is on track.
My wife suggested a dozen of her favorite flowers for each year you were married. She said that waywards enjoy the romance heaped upon them by their AP's, and that their spouses stopped doing those kind of things. So it would make her feel valued. The point being, if you never did anything extravagant for your wife, maybe a show of extravagance will have an impact. This is coming from a recent (and reformed) wayward.
You've gotten different advice from everyone. I have often heard others say, don't go overboard. That is a turn-off. But this much we know: plan a is about showing her you love her and ending LB's. Whatever you do, do it from the heart remembering the things about her that you used to love.
I would listen to RQ!! The photo scrap book she left me was a heavy hit to the heart. It was pictures through out our life together. Times when we were having fun and great memories. The biggest impact was she wrote in it our names with our wedding date till the day I moved out. It made me think of all the good times and that I would never have that again. That is a shock when you are in a non reality place at the time and not really realizing what you are doing to your own life and family. I ended my nightmare a couple of days later.
Go for the heavy emotional hit!!! It means so much more then the spent a lot of money and bought you jewelry or something expensive. Anyone can do that. Think of something special you had. Things that reflect the good that you had. Your child being born, wedding pictures, vacations, add pictures of great things you did as a Dad. Playing with the kids at a park, baseball game, playing with the kids when they were little. Make her think into the great things that she seen in you when you first fell in love.
Well WW called and says she wants to see a psychologist. She saw DD for a little bit. We went to where she staying we talked a lil bit about mouthing just small talk. Making small deposits here and there keeping up the plan A. She asked me for help with something her affair caused of course I declined and stated how the affair is hurting me and DD. That she needs to stop if she wants me to be in her life.
Got her a card and chocolates with a photo album of all the pictures of us in happier times. Wanted to include this letter as well let me know your thoughts folks and edits if necessary.
This suffering your affair causes is immense. If the time comes and you want to try again, I will not punish you if we reconcile or pay you back for it is petty and unnecessary. The way I feel about your behavior is a feeling I wouldn't wish on anyone. We can only change the present and prevent mistakes in the future. I finally finished that movie remember we watched it when we were dating and we never finished it. something stood out to me a bible verse. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
You are my wife and together we can go on from here. If you choose so. I believe real love isn't an euphoria, obsession or butterflies in your stomach. That's only temporary. Real and true love is unity with emotion and reason. Love is a choice, I made that decision about you that day in the chapel on July 5th as did you.
It requires effort and discipline it is a choice to expend time and energy in an effort to benefit the other person and knowing that person's life is made better because of it. All the energy you are putting into your affair would be used towards or marriage. It would be better than before! I hope your health is good and that your taking care of yourself. Bottom line is I do care for and about your well being.
I can't read your mind but I'm sure this affair is the first time you done something like this. I have a feeling that your depressed and alone. Emailing this counselor might help you figure out what's going on with you. It's mbradio@marriagebuilders.com tell them your side of the story let them know your my wife. WW I will continue to pray for you, more than myself and keep you in my heart. No matter what you believe about me know that I care about you and I always have.
Tranquil, I have a few thoughts on your letter. I wouldn't refer to her affair in it. I don't think that it is....appropriate to have it in the love letter. If this is what this is. I also don't think you should try to educate her with telling her what you need to do. I could edit it a little for you, if you would like?
TD my thoughts were in line with RQ. For a more MB like plan A letter the only mention I would make of her affair is that you are willing to do what it takes to recover the marriage once she agrees to no contact for life. But see that doesn't sound romantic at all. So I'd just leave out that part and maybe remind her later if she responds favourably to your letter.
There is a place online that you can actually send animal feces anonymously....yes I had googled it previously, not plan A but it did make me laugh.....all sorts of varieties, elephant, cow, and gorilla....assorted sizes as well.....
There is a place online that you can actually send animal feces anonymously....yes I had googled it previously, not plan A but it did make me laugh.....all sorts of varieties, elephant, cow, and gorilla....assorted sizes as well.....
LMAO...now you have me googling things I never thought I would've.
Remember that movie we watched it when we were dating and we never finished it? Well, I saw it the other night and something stood out to me. This bible verse. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
You are my wife and together we can go on from here. If you choose to. I believe real love isn't an euphoria, obsession or butterflies in your stomach. That's only temporary. Real and true love is unity with emotion and reason. Love is a choice, I made that decision about you that day in the chapel on July 5th as did you.
Love requires effort and discipline. It is a choice to expend time and energy in an effort to benefit the other person and knowing that person's life is made better because of it. This is what we should be doing for each other, as husband and wife. Our marriage would be better than before! But that is your choice.
I hope your health is good and that your taking care of yourself. Bottom line is I do care for and about your well being. I have a feeling that your depressed and alone. Emailing this counselor might help you figure out what's going on with you. It's mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. You can tell them your story and let them know your my wife. WW I will continue to pray for you, more than myself and keep you in my heart. No matter what you believe about me know that I care about you and I always have.
NG's isn't very plan A... ...which is why I at first declined to offer comment on your plan!
(But I have always owned up that my "Plan A" would have been the WORST one extant. I think it would have consisted, for example, of giving her the opportunity of exiting her car before taking a chainsaw to it!)
Well he is in school supposedly. WW told her mother not to let me talk to him. I will send a letter and keep communication open between me and him. I miss him much.
Personally, I'd go the State Department route. The child, a US citizen, is being detained outside of the United States proper, and as such is being denied access to education, medical care, and protection due him as a citizen. Add to that the questionable criminal status of WW, who is mandating his exile, and I can see any number of congressmen, straining to be the one to lead the fight to bring him home.
As far as getting congressman involved it won't work. PR is a territory so he is t getting denied anything. DS and I saw her at her present dwelling and gave her the present. Got flowers for each year of marriage, the note chocolates (from DS) and a photo album of happier times. She cried and hugged DS and we talked about nothing in particular. She doesn't want to be reserve military anymore which is shocking! She was always so driven in her career. I think it has something to do with the guilt of her affair and the IG investigation. I have proof that she has been to the doctor cor a referral to a psychologist. Thats a good sign IMO. RQ and Kiss I hope this works. I really mis SS and WW I feel incomplete without them. God bless you all and I will keep you updated.
DS and I saw her at her present dwelling and gave her the present. Got flowers for each year of marriage, the note chocolates (from DS) and a photo album of happier times. She cried and hugged DS and we talked about nothing in particular. She doesn't want to be reserve military anymore which is shocking! She was always so driven in her career. I have proof that she has been to the doctor cor a referral to a psychologist. Thats a good sign IMO. I really mis SS and WW I feel incomplete without them. God bless you all and I will keep you updated.
All good stuff, TD, but remember to prevent any of her actions, utterances, or attitudes from raising any expectations within you. You have the additional burden of observing DS's joy of being with his Mom, and isolating that from your own reality.
Yea that's on thing about plan A that I feel a lot of emphasis should be put on. No expectations. I found when you do have expectations and they don't come to fruition AOs happen and your plan A suffers. DS tells her everytime he sees her that he misses his brother. At first she dismisses it recently though I see anguish in her face when he says this. He also tells her he wants her to be happy with daddy and not to talk to POSOM anymore because she is daddy's wife. That made me tear up but I kept my emotions in check in front of her. Thanks for everyone's help here this is a really good support system.
I want to offer some words on her seeing a psychologist. Generally it's good. However my wife was seeing a psychologist while in her affair and I am Now divorced. According to my lying wife, the psychologist encouraged her to "separate" for perspective.
I hope that you arent going to start making psychological excuses for your wife
There are reasons for an affair not excuses. If she sees this psychologist and the psychologist makes her see the pain and suffering she is causing and that she is responsible for her actions and no one her made her a lying cheat and a bad mother then it was worth it. As for your ex-wife JK I think she was lying about what was said during her sessions. I have zero tolerance for excuses! She made this horrible decision to lay with POSOM and get feces on all aspects of her life. Not because some childhood BS or any other scapegoat. Everyday I see her she looks more pitiful and pitiful while I am perceived as being stronger and stronger. Even though inside I'm an emotional wreck. I dont have time to sit back and have a pity party. I have a son to raise and I have to be that strong light so she can see her way home. Your concerns are duly noted, JK. Rest assured excuses won't be tolerated by TD. As far as I am concerned it is simple stop having an affair NC and follow MB simple plan that has some tricky execution but as they say if you really want it, it will happen with effort.
Spoke with WW. Talked about tv shows and other things. Here are the highlights: She has 0 intention of bringing SS home. She feels resentment and anger towards me because I took DS from her. I acknowledge the fact she ran off with both of our children and she didn't want to discuss that. She feels I'm recording the phone conversation. I asked if she missed me and I got a hesitant no. Once again because she thinks I'm recording her. She kept the flowers and such from v day and loved them a lot. That's quoted and the photo album as well. I asked her about why she wants out the military. She gave some reasons that I don't buy I am pretty sure she is ashamed of her affair and the IG investigation. She has an appointment for a psychologist. I verified this. Have a court date about custody and the TRO was rescinded. Made small deposits listening to her family problems. Complimented her and was very patient and kept my cool. Other than that pray for my family and ill keep you all posted.
This is not MB advice: when I discovered my wife's affair I called my brother in law who is a practicing psychiatrist. He encouraged me to call my wife's psychologist and offer a "spouses perspective" You may want to consider doing the same
TD, I respect the commitment to marriage that keeps you in plan A. Last year , I was faced with a situation where I could keep trying to work on my marriage, or do what was right for the kids. It was really hard, but I chose the latter (because my responsibility to them is ultimately greater AND because I am showing them how to live life, and for me, that involves sometimes the hardest path for the heart). My kids are doing SO well now, and my WH ended up just moving out of the area. I know you experience some frustration because of the limits of what you can do for your stepson, but I struggle to understand how you can accept what your WW is telling you about how little she cares for the kids' well-being. They are watching all of this...and I just have a hard time understanding the message your son is getting from watching you woo a woman who has hurt his life so much. I just wonder whether this is the best thing in the long run, to stick in plan A...is she really redeemable at this point?
You have a valid point JV. I feel I am teaching him that in order to get what you want you need hard work, determination and motivation. I feel she is worth all the trouble one thing I learned from this site is patience and long term rewards. Every time we talk I see and hear it in her voice. She is in pain because of her adulterous ways and she knows it. It's just easier for her to blame me for everything. When she tries to trigger arguments and insults I kindly redirect them. However, our conversations aren't forced but her attempts to trigger an AO are forced and fake. Her tone says it all. She opened up and told me her grandmother is dying. I urged her to go see her.
I plan on going there and seeing her grandmother, out of all her family her grandmother is the only one who told my WW she is ruining her life with a good man over nothing. I feel I should at least see her with DS and see SS as well. Hopefully, WW will come as well. In a couple months we have another court date where custody will be discussed. The way I look at it I have hope and a plan. So I'm not attacking this affair blind. I know in my heart I have changed tremendously for the better and she sees it as well. For once in my life I feel I have a purpose and that God is behind me and I will not fail.
Cervical cancer is caused by HPV which is a sexually transmitted disease. An HPV infection takes a very long time to progress to the point that it causes cervical cancer.
If I understand this correctly, your wife's diagnosis proves that she had extramarital sex prior to last fall.
I think she had a ONS or got it from her relationship prior to me. She was with SS father who was extremely abusive physically and emotionally. From what I know it takes years for that stuff to fester. When this all started I got tested for everything and it was all negative. And I have had the vaccination against HPV.
I read that most HPV infections go away within 2 years, but some linger. Cervical cancer is caused by those lingering HPV infections. I was assuming she got the infection within the past few years, but I suppose it could date back to the beginning of her relationship with Tranquil, or even predate her relationship with Tranquil.
Are there any medical professionals who post on this forum? If Tranquil knew how long it usually takes for an HPV infection to progress to cervical cancer, it might give him a better idea of how long WW has been unfaithful.
This is her first that I know of I'm not discounting the fact that there may be more I don't know about. This infidelity has me picking pieces of past behaviors and assuming the worst until I get the truth. I really believe that this is her first time doing this because of the sloppiness, the running away (which seems to be typical of WWs after reading a lot of other threads) and the depression accompanied with it. ONS was prior to her even knowing me and she told me about it while we were dating.
I just know she didn't get it from me. I'm really sure it is from SS father because it takes 10-15 years to manifest. SS is 10 years old so the math is just right. Going to call her today to talk about her grandma's illness. Most people have said that I have crazy mental endurance to plan A for so long. I'd like to think of myself as a mentally strong individual one of the qualities she liked in me. Honestly, if POSOM wasn't 1500 miles away I think I would be in jail for harming him. I guess that's one silver lining in all this.
Today going to a birthday party with DS. He has been my little hero throughout all this. He told her one time that she should come home with his brother. She said I was controlling what he says typical. He the. Countered that she was daddy's wife and she should love daddy and only daddy. Also that daddy didn't tell him anything but to pray for mommy.
Good. That makes sense regarding the timing of the infection.
I agree that you have incredible mental endurance to still be in Plan A. It seems like you are directing most of your anger at POSOM rather than at WW, and that is how you're managing to stay in Plan A.
Do you have a time limit for Plan A? Your wife has been extremely abusive--to you and the boys--yet you still love her. Are you afraid you could be teaching the boys that they should tolerate abusive relationships? Children learn what they live.
I was on the radio show in November and f/u emails to dr. H. He said I should Plan A still divorce and communicate how hurtful her affair is to me and our family. Once the divorce is final I enter plan B. as for directing anger at POSOM that's not entirely true. I am angry with that sleaze ball and my WW. My anger at her is greater than POSOM but I keep it under control. It's just that I can't hit my wife for a variety of common sense reasons. I can however beat the snot out of him.
Got it. Any progress on getting SS back? I have no legal expertise, but it seems to me that WW should have lost her parental rights due to abandonment. And SS should have been removed from the grandmother's house since the grandmother got him by facilitating a parental kidnapping. (I also think the grandmother should be held legally responsible for her role in the kidnapping, for failing to enroll SS in school in a timely manner, etc.) The poor kid has literally been abandoned by both of his biological parents, and his biological grandmother doesn't even want him anymore. You are the closest relative who is fit to serve as his guardian and you've been desperate to get him back. Giving you full custody seems like a no brainer. What has your lawyer said about the current situation?
I meet with my lawyer next week about that. I sent SS a letter from me, money, and his Christmas presents. They haven't got there yet. I agree with you totally JC. His father is what I call a ghost dad. In his life for a bit then floats away and WW isn't fit to be a parent in her current fogginess. These are points I am going to drive home with my lawyer. SOB will earn that paycheck with my case lol.
Church service was good. Started going back to church when all this drama in my life started. Good advice from JK. The pastor there knows about my wife's adultery but he doesn't know her and he suggested that I can go through marriage counseling with her via the church. Going to run this idea through WW as I will see her today. Following advice from Dr. Harley I set up a family event with WW, myself and DS. He said I should do this often as he feels WW does miss me but is too fogged out to admit it and by doing this she will see what she is missing out on and it sets up good LB deposit opportunities for me. Has anyone been through their church for marriage counseling? Is it effective in getting through the addled mind of an adulteress?
I just finished reading buyers renters and freeloaders and came to this conclusion. I was a buyer and so was she, in the beginning. However, real life and stresses turned her into a renter. I believe when I left for a couple months do to the military it took a toll on her. At that point she became a renter and I didn't realize it. The sermon at church was about commitment and how today's culture pushes for a commitment of non-commitments aka hedging your bets. Anyways my rambling is done for today thanks for letting me vent everyone. God bless!
TD, Dr. Harley has tips for finding an effective counselor, whether it be through your church or elsewhere. I'm not sure if you've seen this article or not, so I'll link it for you. Use these tips to guide your selection: Finding an Effective Counselor
I went to a church counselor. Most of them have a doctrine of unconditional love and forgiveness. In my case, he asked my wife: is the Afair over? She answered Yes. (a lie) He turned to me and said, You need to forgive her.
Fortunately I had another motive for counseling. I used it as a safe place to make an ultimatum to my wife: Agree to MB recovery or we divorce. I was not going to follow the counselors plan. She then started complaining to the counselor about me.
Overall marital counseling is a waste of time and counter productive during an active affair.
I would like her to do that but she is in an active affair. Do you think they would help in an active affair. I have to get her to agree to it. I didn't ask about the pastor counseling because I believe it would be a waste a time. We had a nice time just the three of us I really wish SS was there. She talked and open up to me. She wants to be a vegetarian. POSOM influence. That hurt when she said that cause I know why but she oblivious of what I know. We talked alot about church service I attended and little talk about future and everything. DS was happy we were together. Overall I think I made good impression sprinkled compliments during the conversation she gave me some as well on my appearance and parenting. I think the v day gift was a huge deposit. Fighting the good fight thanks for the advice.
I have heard that sometimes Steve is "good with foghorns" I have no experience with this so I can't discuss it further. But it couldn't hurt to get her to talk to him if willing.
The challenge is that "the fog" is delusional thinking as explained by Dr Harley on a recent radio show. Your wife is not thinking clearly and Steve's job would be to have her consider te consequences of her behavior. You have already allowed her to fce the natural consequences of her behavior EXCEPT for no contact/ plan B. She does not have a picture of what divorce would be like. Your intent is to plan a until divorce then enter plan B based on the advice you received. Steve would encourage her to think "what would divorce be like?"
The best weapon you have at this time is prayer. The bible says that the prayer of a righteous man is a powerful and effective weapon. Pray for her and yourself. For God to give you both the will to follow His commandments.
I strongly encourage you to read the book of Hosea also.
Let's base our value systems on the opinions of the geniuses LiLo, Britney, and Kim K, and their spoiled, brainless fifteen y/o female fans! (Oh, wait a minute, the waywards that have driven us here have already done that, right?)
Shall we toss in Mindy McReady as well? (I wonder if the Rocket sported matte or highly buffed toenails?)
....NG I thought I could tell you guys anything now my feelings are hurt lol. I onky did it because it was something I wanted to do with WW. Would be a nice UA hour IMO. Women sound off please wouldnt it be mice if your husband went with you for a disl manicure? Nothing new here making deposits during phone conversations with the WW. Awesome I know I get phone calls now. This is pathetic the last sentence was dripping with sarcasm I can't wait till this is over and I can talk recovery like some other folks on the forum. *Sigh*
Um, men take horrible care of their feet. A pedicure every now and again would fall under PA, which is not one of the top needs for most women, but the gargoyle feet are well just ew. What a great idea for some UA.
Thanks BP and yes JK i will call it a grooming of my feet and no polish that's kinda out there. Reading the book of Hosea and it feels like a Plan A guide and very insightful. Will keep you all posted on any new developments.
Don't let 'em get to you. Nothing wrong with a guy getting occasional pedis. Going with W is even better and i have seen planty of couples at the saln When I see a guy with gross feet or missing nails it is a total turn off.
As you read the book of Hosea you will see that God commands the prophet to marry an adulterous wife. And God declares that the wife will depart and sleep with others but that God will place "hedges" around her and she will be forced to return to her husband.
I encourage you to pray for hedges around your wife. Pray that God places angels in her path.
Will do, JK. Last time I spoke with her she said all I wanted from her was sex. My response was that it wasn't true and I'm sorry she feels like that. Then she got into talking about the divorce and I told her I talk marriage my lawyer talks divorce and offered her my lawyers phone number. She was stunned and change the subject. We talked about our relationship in the past, the good times and bad, a talk she initiated. I told her that I do care for her and loved the women she was and I don't agree with wives having boyfriends in marriages.
She claims she isn't in a relationship with POSOM (gaslighting)and she barely talks to him at all anymore. I believe this to be a lie becuase I have no way of verifying this. She also stated she just wants this to be done so she can move forward and get our kids back together. I said if you would bring SS home they would be together and she started to get hostile. I told her I would like to change the subject to something more pleasant. We talked about sci-fi tv shows we watched together (that she still watches even though she said she hated them when we were together) and a video game we played together.
She said MIL wants me to come to PR to see her dying grandmother and I am willing to do so. She also stated she doesn't want to be there when I am there and her jobs won't let her take the two weeks off and unsure if she could go. That's a lie, what I got from that was this: "I want to see my grandmother but I am scared because she will tell me I am wrong on her death bed. I cannot bear to see my son because I have wronged and abandoned him. I also want to stay in Puerto Rico for couple days and then plan a visit to see POSOM using my sick grandmother as a cover to you because your stupid." I am still Plan Aing and following the advice given to me. Getting Baptized next week, really nervous about that but I think it will help me in my faith as I get closer to Jesus and God. DS is doing awesome in preschool and can now count to 50! Now if I can teach him to tie his shoes I will be golden lol. Trying to think of an activity DS and I can do with WW to deposit some more $$ in her love bank. Any suggestions?
Why hasn't MIL already put SS on a plane home to you? Your wife has literally abandoned him, and your MIL said she doesn't want to continue raising him. Correct? I don't understand why SS still isn't back home with you and his brother.
Also, my understanding is that Plan A is not supposed to become a way of life. When will you switch to Plan B?
Why hasn't MIL already put SS on a plane home to you? Your wife has literally abandoned him, and your MIL said she doesn't want to continue raising him. Correct? I don't understand why SS still isn't back home with you and his brother.
Also, my understanding is that Plan A is not supposed to become a way of life. When will you switch to Plan B?
Dr Harley encourages husbands to plan A for years if needed , based on the circumstances. In tQ case, Dr Harley told him to plan A
WW sent her kids to Puerto Rico so she could continue her extramarital affair without them getting in the way. She literally ripped them away from their home, school, friends, father/stepfather, etc. and then abandoned them with her mother in Puerto Rico. Even after TranquilDark got DS back home--and after the grandmother in Puerto Rico said she does not want to continue raising SS--WW still refuses to allow SS to come back from Puerto Rico. SS is only a 10-year-old child!
What is the point of trying to make LB deposits with WW while she discards her own child like a piece of trash? What she has done to her kids--especially SS--is cruel beyond words. There is nothing Christian about rewarding parental cruelty and neglect.
TD: I think you should fly to the grandmother's home in Puerto Rico, put your arms around SS, and tell him his nightmare is finally over. Tell him he'd better get packing because he has plane to catch and his little brother can't wait to see him.
He did. From what I gather from his email is that my WW will feel the real sting of divorce with a dark Plan B after divorce. I believe he thinks my case will be a remarriage. I can't take SS because it would constitute as "kidnapping". However, on my trip there to see my WW's ailing grandmother I will try to reason with MIL to let me take SS. If she agrees then I will take him back with me. If I take SS without justification it could be used against me in a custody hearing with WW for DS. I cannot Plan B if I wanted to because she has vistation with DS that says I monitor it. To get that reverse would show instability on my part.
WW tried to get the military involved and accused me of being an abusive husband/father. The military ruled against her and in my favor. I am trying to open a case with the military against WW for abandoment of SS. If I get that I can use that as ammunition for sole custody of DS and possibly have a slim chance at getting custody of SS as well.
He did. From what I gather from his email is that my WW will feel the real sting of divorce with a dark Plan B after divorce. I believe he thinks my case will be a remarriage. I can't take SS because it would constitute as "kidnapping". However, on my trip there to see my WW's ailing grandmother I will try to reason with MIL to let me take SS. Why don't you go now? I can't understand why you are willing to book a flight for the sole purpose of visiting your WW's ailing grandmother, but you are not willing to book a flight for the sole purpose of bringing your abandoned, 10-year-old stepson home. Which is more important? If she agrees then I will take him back with me. Why wouldn't she agree? She already contacted you to let you know that she doesn't want to continue raising him. If I take SS without justification it could be used against me in a custody hearing with WW for DS. Your MIL must have been granted temporary legal guardianship when your WW abandoned the children in PR. I cannot Plan B if I wanted to because she has vistation with DS that says I monitor it. To get that reverse would show instability on my part.
WW tried to get the military involved and accused me of being an abusive husband/father. The military ruled against her and in my favor. Excellent. I am trying to open a case with the military against WW for abandoment of SS. If I get that I can use that as ammunition for sole custody of DS and possibly have a slim chance at getting custody of SS as well. I suspect your case would be stronger if both DS and SS are living with you when you petition for sole custody.
I think he is afraid of jeopardizing his chance of getting custody of SS if he just takes him.
But TD is the stepfather, and he would be taking SS with the current legal gaurdian's permission.
I don't see how a court could fault TD for doing that, considering the circumstances. Regardless, if I were in TD's position, I would gladly accept any legal consequences that resulted from bringing that poor kid home.
I am going to PR with my son. His maternal great grandmother is passing away; while there I will visit my step son. If my mother in law consents to it, can I bring him back home with me? My wife wants him to stay in PR with her mother but her mother doesn't want him. I am very concerned about his emotional well being. What are your suggestions?
"I recommend that you remain in plan A, but don�t lose your temper or do anything else that would cause you to lose love units. Try to make it clear that you will not tolerate another man in her life, but that you are willing to overcome any problems she has with you that might have tempted her to have this affair."
So I'm in officially in plan A. Any good ideas for affection and attention?
Thanks for posting that BH. JK I meet with my lawyer next week and I plan on bringing that up. JC I see your point as well however I am not sure what custody rights I have when it comes to SS. I got a TRO to force my wife back to our home state from PR so I can get custody of both DS and SS. My lawyer said I had zero case for SS at that time and I should go for DS then SS once I prove I am a stable parent. Another angle is that SS biological father is in PR and has contact with him. He's another ghost dad. If I take him he could take legal action against me as well. I don't want to jeopardize my custody hearing in a couple of months for my DS. If I can get a sign document from MIL then I will feel comfortable taking SS. WW father is there as well and something tells me we will bump heads.
When I told him about POSOM arrest for molestation and her affair when I confronted at the hotel he threatened to beat me up lol. I laugh because he is 60 years old ex drug addict with a terminal disease. "My daughter can be a prostitute for all I care its not your problem bro, leave her alone or I will kill you." Classic enabling father over compensating for missed time. If he is there I am deathly afraid of breaking his face if he threatens me in person. Any ideas on how to handle that? Also, if POSOM is there and she is there I am very scared I will lose it and do more than break his face.
Got some good quotes to questions that will be asked by my WW off of another thread. Setting up some Plan A opportunities with DS and I working the shared history angle and being a stellar father. The previous is hard because I was that dad to begin with and to top that will be very hard. It is winter here and I'm brainstorming some family activities that will allow me to be with both DS and WW. Ideas would be appreciated.
"I recommend that you remain in plan A, but don�t lose your temper or do anything else that would cause you to lose love units. Try to make it clear that you will not tolerate another man in her life, but that you are willing to overcome any problems she has with you that might have tempted her to have this affair."
So I'm in officially in plan A. Any good ideas for affection and attention?
Isn't that radio show from Nov. 2012? When I listened to it, I got the impression that Dr. Harley and Joyce were unaware of the details regarding Puerto Rico. I suspect their advice would have been different if they'd known the whole story. I also suspect their advice would be dramatically different if they knew how WW has been acting since November. I can't imagine they'd recommend Plan A at this point.
Setting up some Plan A opportunities with DS and I working the shared history angle and being a stellar father. The previous is hard because I was that dad to begin with and to top that will be very hard. It is winter here and I'm brainstorming some family activities that will allow me to be with both DS and WW. Ideas would be appreciated.
She knows you are a steller father, it was hard for my FWW to deny that I was a spectaular father. Staying that way and letting her know what you are up to with your DS is a strength of yours and she will notice. Use your strength, and let it give you reason to work on other aspects of your Plan A. What you need to do is determine what needs are you not meeting for your wife and what needs she wants fulfilled. strengthen those while basing it on your ability to be a stellar father.
It is winter here and I'm brainstorming some family activities that will allow me to be with both DS and WW. Ideas would be appreciated.
Idea for a fun, family activity: Bring SS back Puerto Rico and have a "Welcome Home" party waiting for him. Let DS plan the party. Do not invite the woman who abandoned SS in Puerto Rico.
I also have to say that I am not seeing the good in plan A at the moment. Maybe it would be wise to email Dr. Harley again with the latest developments. You could tell him it's a debate on the boards. If I were you, I'd push the abandonment case, get SS back, get a new visitation order and cut out WW, so she really feels the pain of losing everything. She is really just an expert cake-eater right now.
I will email the radio show the following please edit and add information I might of forgot:
I was on your show mid-November talking about my WW. A lot has happened since then. She came back to the city we live in and I followed Bill's advice. Plan A I also exposed to the affair partners job via email and his church via mail (he lives in FL) He called my wife upset and frustrated with my "harrassment". Our next court date is mid May. I completed love busters book and HNHN and SAA 3x each. I found that I was being disrespectful and didn't know it. I have completed anger management class and parenting class. My wife still is talking to POSOM and lives outside of the marital home. I do not want a divorce I am trying to prolong it so I can do a awesome Plan A then Plan B when its final. We talk about little things and she sometimes opens up to me. She talks and I learn to be a proactive listener (a fault I recognized). She was considering bringing my SS back to the marital home from Puerto Rico. He is living with his grandmother there after she ran off with him and DS. Court has given me temporary custody of DS and I am currently trying to get SS back in the marital home as well. Thank you for your time and help. God bless you for all you do and thanks for the advice!
I will email the radio show the following please edit and add information I might of forgot:
I was on your show mid-November talking about my WW. If you remember, one day after I left for work [color:#993300](is that accurate?), WW flew my 10-yr-0ld stepson and my 3-yr-old son to Puerto Rico without my knowledge or permission. She didn't tell me about this until after they were gone. I literally came home to an empty house.
WW left the children in PR with her mother and joined POSOM back in the states. (Did WW even go with the boys or did she just put them on a plane by themselves?) WW told me she did this because she didn't want me to have custody of the kids while she continued her affair. (Is that accurate?) In order to get my son back from Puerto Rico, I had to get temporary full custody of him and a temporary restraining order against WW. (Please be advised that WW also has a history of depression and instability.)
In PR, the grandmother didn't even enroll my SS in school for several months, and she recently contacted me to tell me that she does not want to continue raising him.
WW lives near me, and is allowed supervised visitation with our son. She hasn't gone back to PR to help raise the son she abandoned there, so MIL is SS's legal guardian at this time. SS's biological father also lives in PR. However, he abandoned SS years ago, and does not have legal custody of him.
SS's little brother and I miss him desperately, and SS is desperate to come back home from PR, but WW will not allow it. I believe she is ashamed to face the child she abandoned months ago.
[/color]Since November, I've been following Dr. Harley's advice to Plan A while pursuing full, permanent custody of my son. (If you remember, POSOM was charged with sexual molestation of his own daughter, so I'm afraid our son would be at risk if WW got shared custody.) I've completely exposed the affair and am trying to be the best husband I can possibly be, but WW refuses to end contact with POSOM.
I do not want a divorce, but I had to file for divorce in order to pursue custody of my son. I am trying to prolong it so I can do an awesome Plan A. Should I continue asking WW out on dates and trying to make love bank deposits? I've been doing everything I can think of to win her back. Do you believe this is still the correct course of action? Thank you for your time and help. God bless you for all you do and thanks for the advice!
TD: I screwed up the font colors in my previous post. Below please find my suggested additions in red, and my questions in green:
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
I will email the radio show the following please edit and add information I might of forgot:
I was on your show mid-November talking about my WW. If you remember, one day after I left for work (is that accurate?), WW flew my 10-yr-0ld stepson and my 3-yr-old son to Puerto Rico without my knowledge or permission. She didn't tell me about this until after they were gone. I literally came home to an empty house.
WW left the children in PR with her mother and joined POSOM back in the states.(Did WW even go with the boys or did she just put them on a plane by themselves?)WW told me she did this because she didn't want me to have custody of the kids while she continued her affair.(Is that accurate?) In order to get my son back from Puerto Rico, I had to get temporary full custody of him and a temporary restraining order against WW. (Please be advised that WW also has a history of depression and instability.)
In PR, the grandmother didn't even enroll my SS in school for several months, and she recently contacted me to tell me that she does not want to continue raising him.
WW lives near me, and is allowed supervised visitation with our son. She hasn't gone back to PR to help raise the son she abandoned there, so MIL is SS's legal guardian at this time. SS's biological father also lives in PR. However, he abandoned SS years ago, and does not have legal custody of him.
SS's little brother and I miss him desperately, and SS is desperate to come back home from PR, but WW will not allow it. I believe she is ashamed to face the child she abandoned months ago.
Since November, I've been following Dr. Harley's advice to Plan A while pursuing full, permanent custody of my son. (If you remember, POSOM was charged with sexual molestation of his own daughter, so I'm afraid our son would be at risk if WW got shared custody.) I've completely exposed the affair and am trying to be the best husband I can possibly be, but WW refuses to end contact with POSOM.
I do not want a divorce, but I had to file for divorce in order to pursue custody of my son. I am trying to prolong it so I can do an awesome Plan A. Should I continue asking WW out on dates and trying to make love bank deposits? I've been doing everything I can think of to win her back. Do you believe this is still the correct course of action? Thank you for your time and help. God bless you for all you do and thanks for the advice!
I noticed that your letter glossed over--or completely ignored--the most important issues while calling attention to non-issues. For example, you didn't even mention that your wife has essentially banished one of her children; both children are devastated by this; and your response to the situation has been to buy her flowers and write her love letters. Also, you mentioned that you took an anger management class, but if I remember correctly, you were actually told that you didn't need that class but took it anyway. By mentioning your anger management class in the letter to Dr. Harley, you are creating a false impression that you were an abusive husband and your wife was an innocent victim. It seems like you are filtering information so Dr. Harley will view her more sympathetically.
I noticed that your letter glossed over--or completely ignored--the most important issues while calling attention to non-issues. For example, you didn't even mention that your wife has essentially banished one of her children; both children are devastated by this; and your response to the situation has been to buy her flowers and write her love letters. Also, you mentioned that you took an anger management class, but if I remember correctly, you were actually told that you didn't need that class but took it anyway. By mentioning your anger management class in the letter to Dr. Harley, you are creating a false impression that you were an abusive husband and your wife was an innocent victim. It seems like you are filtering information so Dr. Harley will view her more sympathetically.
Agreed TD. Dr. Harley would probably not remember you as he has lots of callers... I thought the email was lacking in detail. I like JC's edit. "ww was considering bringing SS back." What the heck was that?! C'mon TD snap out of it. I do this to myself sometimes too, but I'm not in contact with my WH... This is what plan A is doing to you! WW has NOT brought SS back! That is the truth and what you should have written.
On a side note, I would refer to him as Dr Harley and not first name. First names are for golf friends. He is a professional.
Hello,
I was on your radio show last Novemer (email copied below). My wife started an affair with a man that has been accused by his ex wife of molestation. He is a police officer and in the military (where they met).
I exposed the affair in November and she acted in concert with my mother in law and took my son and step son to puerto Rico where the mother in law resides. The local court later subpeanaed her to return with my son and I was awarded temporary full custody with supervised visitation for her.
My step son remains in puerto Rico with the mother in law.
I have been in plan A while divorce is in the courts. I am also active on the forums and some members are telling me to enter plan B. Should I continue plan A?
Her affair partner lives out of state so I don't think they see each other often.
TD: I screwed up the font colors in my previous post. Below please find my suggested additions in red, and my questions in green:
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
I will email the radio show the following please edit and add information I might of forgot:
I was on your show mid-November talking about my WW. If you remember, one day after I left for work (is that accurate?), WW flew my 10-yr-0ld stepson and my 3-yr-old son to Puerto Rico without my knowledge or permission. She didn't tell me about this until after they were gone. I literally came home to an empty house.
WW left the children in PR with her mother and joined POSOM back in the states.(Did WW even go with the boys or did she just put them on a plane by themselves?)WW told me she did this because she didn't want me to have custody of the kids while she continued her affair.(Is that accurate?) In order to get my son back from Puerto Rico, I had to get temporary full custody of him and a temporary restraining order against WW. (Please be advised that WW also has a history of depression and instability.)
In PR, the grandmother didn't even enroll my SS in school for several months, and she recently contacted me to tell me that she does not want to continue raising him.
WW lives near me, and is allowed supervised visitation with our son. She hasn't gone back to PR to help raise the son she abandoned there, so MIL is SS's legal guardian at this time. SS's biological father also lives in PR. However, he abandoned SS years ago, and does not have legal custody of him.
SS's little brother and I miss him desperately, and SS is desperate to come back home from PR, but WW will not allow it. I believe she is ashamed to face the child she abandoned months ago.
Since November, I've been following Dr. Harley's advice to Plan A while pursuing full, permanent custody of my son. (If you remember, POSOM was charged with sexual molestation of his own daughter, so I'm afraid our son would be at risk if WW got shared custody.) I've completely exposed the affair and am trying to be the best husband I can possibly be, but WW refuses to end contact with POSOM.
I do not want a divorce, but I had to file for divorce in order to pursue custody of my son. I am trying to prolong it so I can do an awesome Plan A. Should I continue asking WW out on dates and trying to make love bank deposits? I've been doing everything I can think of to win her back. Do you believe this is still the correct course of action? Thank you for your time and help. God bless you for all you do and thanks for the advice!
Yes I was at work and I received a call from WW. Sounded like something was wrong. She told me everything was ok and I spoke with DS. I didn't really understand him at the time but after it went down I did. He was telling me mommy took the xbox and put it in the trunk and he was in the car with her and MIL. I came home to an empty house that evening. She went to see POSOM who was flying into a major city in our state while she had MIL fly to PR with our children. I confronted at the hotel but POSOM wasn't there and she claimed he will be there on Sunday. She was crying and hysterical, the hotel (which was reserved in his name) called the police and I was told to leave. I wish I would of had the car towed as per NGs advice.
I was on your show mid-November talking about my WW. If you remember, one day after I left for work (is that accurate?), WW flew my 10-yr-old stepson and my 3-yr-old son to Puerto Rico without my knowledge or permission. She didn't tell me about this until after they were gone. I literally came home to an empty house.
WW had her mother fly with our children to PR while she stayed and waited for POSOM, in a hotel that was reserved in his name. WW told me she did this because she didn't want me to have custody of the kids while she continued her affair. In order to get my son back from Puerto Rico, I had to get temporary full custody of him and a temporary restraining order against WW. (Please be advised that WW also has a history of depression and instability.) She attempted suicide by jumping out of a moving vehicle on the highway after I had confronted in the car about the POSOM because she was on the phone with him in front of me and the kids. I restrained her and she hit and scratched me. She was arrested for domestic battery and she plead guilty to a lesser charge of simple battery.
In PR, the grandmother didn't even enroll my SS in school for several months, and she recently contacted me to tell me that she does not want to continue raising him. MIL has an ill mother and husband at home and the stress of raising a 10 yr old boy is taking a toll on her.
WW lives near me, and is allowed supervised visitation with our son. She hasn't gone back to PR to help raise the son she abandoned there, so MIL is SS's legal guardian at this time. SS's biological father also lives in PR. However, he abandoned SS years ago, and does not have legal custody of him. SS's little brother and I miss him desperately, and SS is desperate to come back home from PR, but WW will not allow it. I believe she is ashamed to face the child she abandoned months ago.
Since November, I've been following Dr. Harley's advice to Plan A while pursuing full, permanent custody of my son. (If you remember, POSOM was arrested sexual molestation of his own daughter, so I'm afraid our sons would be at risk if WW got shared custody.) I've completely exposed the affair and am trying to be the best husband I can possibly be, but WW refuses to end contact with POSOM. POSOM's ex-wife and son also said he was abusive mentally and physically.
I do not want a divorce, but I had to file for divorce in order to pursue custody of my son. I am also active on the forums and some members are telling me to enter plan B. Should I continue plan A?
Should I continue asking WW out on dates and trying to make love bank deposits? I've been doing everything I can think of to win her back. Do you believe this is still the correct course of action? Thank you for your time and help. God bless you for all you do and thanks for the advice!
Email sent. WW called and wants to come over and see DS for her visitation. I planned on making homemade pizza with him for dinner. I will call and ask her to join. Any other advice I need? I been reading GJM story and ours are similar. There are some differences but I feel how he felt going through this muddle. It has helped me a lot so has the advice on my own thread. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. If it wasn't for this forum I would of lost everything and probably be a sucidal mess. I keep thinking of the woman she was and I want that woman back not this emotionally selfish adulteress she has become. Someday I see that other days I see the adulteress. It's so painful I would rather be in Afghanistan with insurgents surrounding me. At least I know what to do next. The uncertainty is a mfer.
My advice is to not invite her! You are sparing her from the consequences of her actions, and enabling her to continue cake-eating and screwing over the boys. Why should your son have to pretend that life is normal when she comes over tonight? The truth is that he is heartbroken that his brother isn't there, and even though your son is only 4 years old, he realizes it could just as easily have been him that she abandoned.
It's for court order visitation. I have no choice I can at least make it pleasant, chances are she won't show. That has been a trend.
When a parent fails to show for a scheduled visitation, a young child interprets it as rejection. Why in the world are you allowing her to do that to your son?! I strongly recommend that you contact your attorney and ask to get her visitation rights revoked. I also recommend that you send a follow-up email to Dr. Harley informing him of this situation.
Done and I agree. Nevertheless DS and I had fun making the pizza. Was a little greasy though. DS Accidently spilled a half a cup of oil in with the dough. It was hilarious. "I'm sorry daddy can we still eat it?" Despite that we did. Other than that nothing from WW as expected she didn't show.
Done and I agree. Nevertheless DS and I had fun making the pizza. Was a little greasy though. DS Accidently spilled a half a cup of oil in with the dough. It was hilarious. "I'm sorry daddy can we still eat it?" Despite that we did. Other than that nothing from WW as expected she didn't show.
Four years old is a ridiculously cute age. I remember when my kids were little. Enjoy every minute!
My advice is to not invite her! You are sparing her from the consequences of her actions, and enabling her to continue cake-eating and screwing over the boys. Why should your son have to pretend that life is normal when she comes over tonight? The truth is that he is heartbroken that his brother isn't there, and even though your son is only 4 years old, he realizes it could just as easily have been him that she abandoned.
In plan A he should invite her and try to make as many love bank deposits as possible. He doesn't make any when she's on the phone with OM
My advice is to not invite her! You are sparing her from the consequences of her actions, and enabling her to continue cake-eating and screwing over the boys. Why should your son have to pretend that life is normal when she comes over tonight? The truth is that he is heartbroken that his brother isn't there, and even though your son is only 4 years old, he realizes it could just as easily have been him that she abandoned.
In plan A he should invite her and try to make as many love bank deposits as possible. He doesn't make any when she's on the phone with OM
JC and GF, it is important that none of our personal opinions get projected onto folks trying to manage and accommodate their own.
TD is committed for now to remain in Plan A. Whether you or I agree with him is immaterial. He is an adult male, and as such is advised (by Dr H) to remain in that state until he senses his LB$ balance approaching zero. THIS IS NOT PRIMARILY FOR HER BENEFIT! It is for his benefit, to let him exit (if necessary) Plan A and enter Plan B not carrying an excessive amount of affection and longing-for-what-might-have-been for a recovered union with WW which would appear at that time destined not to occur.
Think of a jetliner which is discovered to possibly have a failing landing gear, which could result in violent (crash) landing. The craft will be ordered to circle through the sky for a long time, not necessarily to give the passengers more time to prepare, but to burn off excess fuel, so if the worst happens the fire/explosion will be somewhat diminished.
As suggested, TD is reading GJM's thread. There are not many better examples of managing the LB$ balance to minimal levels prior to eventual dissolution.
If/when TD cuts over to Plan B, he will be already prepared with knowledge, justification, and a highly-ready IM. He's doing fine.
Plan A/B defines TD's interaction with WW. It can legally have no bearing on WW's interaction with DS4.
As a matter of fact, TD's being in communication with WW (as per Plan A) would enable him to detect and interpret her abuses toward DS4 and counteract them, much more so than if he were in a strict Plan B.
I don't believe Dr. Harley would have advised Plan A in November if he'd known the whole story, and I don't believe he would advise it now if he truly understood the current situation. Plan A is being misapplied, and it is having the practical effect of enabling WW to emotionally abuse and abandon the children. Dr. Harley is very clear that plans to save a marriage should not take priority over anyone's physical or emotional safety.
Jessica. The mom will always have supervised visitation. TQ wants to help his step son. This is the only way he can remain in his life for now. Not showing up for visitation isn't abuse. Neglect perhaps but not abuse Isn't every wayward neglectful of their marriage and children?
TQ is not enabling anything. He has Aiken proper court action and that continues.
Since he emailed Dr Harley why don't you quit throwing stumbling blocks on his plan A path until Dr Harley responds?
I feel fine and my LB is high. I have anger towards her POSOM and the whole situation yes but I use that anger for positive outlets. Dr. H knows the full story I said it on the radio show. I think his plan is for me to do a proper plan a then go dark doing divorce because when this started in July of last year I was an emotional wreck. I cried in front of her had 3 massive AOs and was always DJ. So my plan A was f'ed up to say the least. I can take the mental strain and my DS4 is ok and on my side. If I go to Plan B without doing a good plan A I think it will fail. As far as SS is concern he knows his mom is batsh1t crazy he has told me himself. He told her as well but that's my fault in her mind. He wants to come home and understands that it isn't my fault and why he can't. His moms affair. I am not enabling her. She has supervised visitation for 6 hours a week. She lives in a sh1t hole and works many hours at two jobs, her military unit great her like a leper. All of my friends do the same as well as all our mutual friends. Her friends were my friends and they tell her to fix her wrongs. She is scared to go to church the car is getting repoed. Health insurance is going away because of this and she has been diagnosed with cancer. Her military career is in the dumps and she wants to get out, I am positive its from the IG investigation. She barely talks to her kids because of the shame. I feel I'm doing good but I will meet with my lawyer to get my Plan B ducks in a row. I can still whip it out before the final judgment which doesn't have a date yet. Oh and my neighbors told me they see her car come around at least three times a week. Like JK said she is emotionally unstable and hating herself. I am confident that I am on the right course. Isn't the purpose of plan a to let them have their cake and eat it while all the while not letting them think its a good idea? Let them get comfortable then snatch the rug from under them?
No. I don't think that's the purpose of plan A. He recommends Plan A for 6 months while saying that most affairs die a natural death within 6 months. He often says on the radio That there are risks in plan B that the wayward may move in with the affair partner etc. In the case of Jon and Sue, Harley recommended plan B to Jon after Jon had lost his love for Sue and was starting not to like her. It was for Jon's benefit. He uses plan B for women right away to protect them.
If you stick with plan A I think you have a good shot of winning her back.
In my case I plan A until divorce and entered plan B immediately after divorce. I had temporary full custody of the kids during part of this time and she would come and go from the house as she pleased. (no restraining order) My love bank balance was really depleted during this plan a and divorce.
However , Harley recommended I stay in plan A indefinitely if she had any shared custody.
I spoke with my mother concerning everything. Before I would only tell her what was making me mad. Some background on my "mother". She cheated with multiple men on my father and he filed for divorce. She continued to gaslight me and my siblings until I was 15. I did some digging and found the court papers concerning their divorce and my grandmother told me about how she testified against her own daughter because my mother was wayward and didn't raise us correctly.
She lost custody and my father moved on till this day I despise my mother but do not openly show it. I have told her this and she understands. During our talk she wanted to talk with WW and I told her the best way to in touch with her was to write it in a letter and mail it to her address. Mother told me the biggest regret is that she wishes she could do it over again and cherised my father and their marriage. Her relationship with my sister is fractured and my younger brother doesn't deal with her much either. My mother feels if she would share what her life is like and what the future holds for my WW she could get throught to her.
I told her I'm not sure this is a good idea but after reading about plan A this would be a good stick. What are your thoughts? JC please don't think I am being ungrateful, the same goes for everyone who post and follow my trail of tears (thread). I feel that the more posts I have shows me many perspectives on this matter and helps me make the best decisions in a worst position. I still love my wife and feel she is worth all this. Even more so for my children. I have said this before on my thread, if POSOM was a local [censored] I couldn't of been this Plan A patient. He lives 1200 miles away so all he is filling is IC and maybe a little affection. I have the majority, when she has problems she tells me, when she is sick she leans on me, when she just want to talk about thing she leans on me. I am in the best position because of credibility and shared history. Plus, I am a uber father to boot, he11 my step son calls me dad.
In short I will Plan A as Dr. H as told me. When the gavel drops I will Plan B her. Will it be difficult, he11 yea. Like she is addicted to her POSOM most BS are addicted to their WS. But I will thrive and be the best man I can be. She knows deep down she is making a huge mess of her life with her erractic behavior and bonehead decisions. When I am gone and/if she lives with POSOM she will do nothing but compare and see him for what he is. I only hope that I will have the mercy that Jesus has and save her when she is willing to earn her forgivness. Day by day they say right? I have good an bad but my rock has been my DS and SS. They understand even at their long age that "Daddy didn't do anything, wrong. Mommy shouldn't have a boyfriend just a husband and that's Daddy." Once again thanks for all the advice. I have been reading GJM thread and I feel our WW are the same as our situations. I have also been reading my thread and seen how much I have grown and endured. I like a challenge and thats what I look at this as, I have a check list and now I am getting Plan B I have a willing rock solid IM. I have a PBL and all I need is to Plan A for a little longer and drop the boom.
If I go to Plan B without doing a good plan A I think it will fail.
This, from you, with the good doctor's counsel in support, should end the discussion.
Dude, as an aside, if you still have the desire and ability to, as you say, continue to implement an effective Plan A given the history of her betrayal, I'm not ashamed to say you are a better (more devoted?) man than I.
JC, I think being female.. we cannot understand the usefulness of plan A for this long. It's not in our psyche to put up with that much bull for that many mths. I know I, for one, do not have the mental fortitude to deal with a wayward for that long.
When the gavel drops I will Plan B her. Will it be difficult, he11 yea. Like she is addicted to her POSOM most BS are addicted to their WS. But I will thrive and be the best man I can be. She knows deep down she is making a huge mess of her life with her erractic behavior and bonehead decisions. When I am gone and/if she lives with POSOM she will do nothing but compare and see him for what he is. I only hope that I will have the mercy that Jesus has and save her when she is willing to earn her forgivness.
You never know what will happen, how things will eventually turn out. One of the benefits of being around her for awhile ... you see a lot of outcomes. All sorts of outcomes.
Here is one story that is very interesting. A WW came to MB AFTER her BS divorced her. She desperately wanted to patch things up with her EX husband, who wanted nothing to do with her.
This is her first post when she arrived on the MB boards: The beginning
Quote
This is my first post here. I have visited the site off and on for awhile, but never posted. I am still quite uneducated about Plan A and Plan B. I have a lot to learn , that's for sure.
The bottom line is, my divorce was final over a month ago, and I am so unhappy about it. Separated for almost two years, and the whole separation was my foolish idea. Was foolishly involved with someone else during the end of my marriage, so I separated. H found out about the A four months after separation , and then all chances of working things out seemed out of the question.
I foolishly hung on to the relationship , the A, that I started during my marriage of over 20 years. I finally ended that horrible liason, after reading here, and coming to some sort of God given awakening. After separation, I could only keep comparing the BF with the H, and I could only see how superior the H was in every way, and how much I loved him. However, it's too late. He(now Ex-H) has been telling me for months now that he needs time, and he still doesn't know if he'll ever want to be with me again. I am heartsick beyond belief. He seems very doubtful, and says this is best for everyone.
Does anyone have any ideas and insight for me? My pastor told me to quit begging the now-ex, and instead to focus on a new life. He said that would be more 'winsome' to the Ex. I am doing that. We have three teenage children, and we recently attended a school event together. (ex and I) We met there. It was just him and me, and it was so wonderful for me. I felt more at peace, just being with him, then I have in years. I don't know how he felt, I didn't want to pressure him at all. He did initiate conversation, and he looked very happy. It was like old times, for me. I've known him for 29 years! (He's a quiet person, and he hasn't initiated conversation with me in a long, long time)
Does anyone have a success story after an A and a final D? I feel heartsick , that I caused all of this pain and devastation.
Thanks for your input, Hopeful_Person
Now divorced (one month now), was married 20 1/2 years, 3 children, separated almost 2 years ago
Thanks Pepperband. I really hope that is me, anyways watching a movie and eating dinner with DS4. Will continue to post update, I haven't heard any response from my email yet. Will share as soon as I do.
Sending this to MIL asking for support for my marriage. Please edit as you see fit. Is this a good idea? On wedding date you and FIL gave your daughter to me freely and of your own will. I could understand you helping her out if we were actually divorced but as it stands right now she is still my wife and I feel that you and FIL taking her in, giving her money and keeping SS is enabling this situation to progress to the point where it's enabling and now I'm dealing with DS4 and my sadness of not seeing SS. I understand very much that you are confused about what the right thing to do in this situation is. I'm sure you want to help your daughter as best you can but I submit that the best way to help her MAYBE to tell her to stop her affair with POSOM and demand she go home and work on things with her husband. That you and your husband aren't going to condone and support her sins of adultery and chatting it up with POSOM. Consider that your grandchildren are looking to you for help saving their family. You two are making it far to easy for her to abandon us. I'm a good man and I've been a decent husband and son-in-law. Nobody's perfect but I don't deserve this and neither do your grandchildren. At this point, our marriage appears repairable but with your help/interference that may not be the case much longer. Please respect my wishes and send my wife home and help me repair our marriage. Please remember the pain that was inflicted upon you when WW's father abandoned you. WW's sadness and anger growing up without a strong father figure in her life. Please do what is right for Our family. SS needs a father and mother to raise him to be the best possible person as he grows and matures, the same as DS. The only way to ensure that is WW coming home and working on our marriage not having an affair with POSOM. Who doesn't raise his own children.
Got a call from WW she is coming to get her things I packed up for her. How should I handle it? Should I help her get her stuff in the vehicle or let her do it herself? I'm leaning towards the previous seems stick Plan A like to me. I need some direction!
Got a call from WW she is coming to get her things I packed up for her. How should I handle it? Should I help her get her stuff in the vehicle or let her do it herself? I'm leaning towards the previous seems stick Plan A like to me. I need some direction!
Is she coming alone? Let's hope so.
Carrot & stick. Make her a yummy snack. Offer her favorite beverage. Music playing. Look amazing. Don't lift her objects unless she is being civil and it appears it might be to your advantage. If she seems to be waiting for you to help physically but you don't want to ... you get a phone call and have to step away.
"Excuse me. My phone is vibrating. I have to take this one."
Yeah, I think writing to MIL is a waste of time, and more importantly, a waste of your decreasing $LB balance.
Why?
Suppose MIL says, "Sure, why don't you come down and pick up DSS? Let me clear it through WW." You KNOW what that answer will be.
MIL might have proximate oversight of DSS, but it's damn certain she has no authority to subsequently delegate it to a third party. How will your $LB react to knowing more blatantly that WW is using DSS to stick it to you.
Following the advice on the letter. Here is an update:
WW called and asked me what time to meet her at marital home so she can get her things. I told her the garage was open and she can start. By the time I got home she was loading her last box. She then took them to wherever she is keeping her things and came back to visit with DS. Other words get her cake eating on with me. Following Pep's advice I had nice clothes on (which is normal for me.) didn't play music though but on the way there I got her a gift card to her favorite coffee shop. We talked about an hour or so while DS played. She also stated I don't have any confidence when I pursue women. LOL like she seen me woo a woman before. I told her I am 100% confident when I asked her out for the first time and that's why we got married.
At the behest of DS, she came upstairs to the bedroom and laid on the bed and talked with me. I sprinkled compliments here and there and brought up happier experiences we shared. Smiling and compliments were reciprocated as well. "I really miss laying in my bed." This comment led to a small relationship talk that intiated. I stated one of the awesome responses I learned from this thread. "I refuse to stay in a marriage of three, however I am willing to create a passionate, loving marriage where both our needs are met and we WILL not be friends after divorce." She countered that she has to do this (affair) because if she doesn't she will look foolish for going this far. She feels I just want revenge and thats why I am pushing to save the marriage. I told her no and then changed the subject to something less charged. She looked worn down and stressed. She also claimed she has seasonal depression. I simply stated that she was renaming simple guilt over hurting the ones that love her most. Then shifted the subject.
When we were done talking, I asked her to email me when she got to where she was staying safe. She said that was her home and I countered her home was here with our family. She sent the email and said she was doing her hair. I asked how would she feel about sending me a picture of her hair when it was finished.
Overral, I felt confident and cool. Didn't LB (at least I didn't think I did.) Made some $$ deposits in her bank with the light fluffy convo. She lost track of time and I ended the conversation. I like to think I did this before she had her fill of "cake". Any thoughts? Things I could do better.
She also stated I don't have any confidence when I pursue women.
Your response was good, by the way.
Quote
She countered that she has to do this (affair) because if she doesn't she will look foolish for going this far. She feels I just want revenge and thats why I am pushing to save the marriage.
TRANSLATION: "I'm a big mess and I know it. I don't understand why you still even want me."
Quote
Overral, I felt confident and cool. Didn't LB (at least I didn't think I did.) Made some $$ deposits in her bank with the light fluffy convo. She lost track of time and I ended the conversation. I like to think I did this before she had her fill of "cake". Any thoughts? Things I could do better.
Awesome job! You came into this prepared and you maintained SELF control.
Thanks for the encouragment. I notice a trend when dealing with her. She would compliment me then suddenly remembered it was a compliment and proceed with a argument starter or a crictism. Is this yo-yo affect normal?
Dude, your particular species of WW is so far from "normal", she can't see normal from where she is. Her behavior is so continuously self-destructive as to defy standard categorization!
I agree NG. Glad you haven't given up on me. My best friend's son had a birthday party at the bowling alley. We as a family are real close to them so I invited WW and she didn't respond. Best friend's wife and WW used to call each other sisters. We took a family phot and I sent it to her via text saying I wish you were here! An hour later she called to speak to DS. He kinda of blew her off and it upset me but that's the price for her affair. I think she is trying to one up me because of the birthday party lol. She didn't talk to me at all and DS hung up without saying the usual I love you. Felt bad for her but those are the breaks! I think the picture got to her.
Thanks for the attempt Pep. I was in church last week and the sermon was on commitment. Brought tears of anger and sadness to my eyes. I can Plan A and pray that my efforts will break through her hardened heart. It's really hard when I know how her relationship with POSOM will end. I really see her going to suicide for the answer. It's all just so messed and frustrating because i know if we work the MB program our marriage would be so MUCH better and we would both be happy. *sigh*
It's all just so messed and frustrating because i know if we work the MB program our marriage would be so MUCH better and we would both be happy. *sigh*
You are doing your best. That is obvious. She is lost in just about every way a woman can be lost. But, she is still alive, and people can/do change. Will change come too late to salvage your marriage? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
I suppose your challenge is to avoid sinking into her hopeless pessimism. I was actually thinking about you when I started a thread on 'other topics'. Well, I was also thinking about myself, and one of my broken relationships. Posting to you has opened my eyes to my own challenges.
Just finished reading mortarmans thread and WOW! He's an inspiration. I think I am going to go through plan a no matter what. I truly believe that my WW have a chance and I will fight for every inch. Till it adds up.
I believe you were recently baptized? You are born again and that is a wonderful matter! Pray to God for guidance in all that you do.read His Bible. Jesus said, "Man shall not live off of bread alike but by the very Word of God"
A good resource is this forum in prayer requests ( near the bottom) there is a daily devotional.
God hates divorce and designed marriage to be for life. Keep in plan A. You are doing a great job and make sure you keep sending letters and packages to step son
After reading the renters, buyers, freeloaders book I came to the conclusion I was a buyer after we got married and she was and still is a renter. When I got depressed about my job I failed to pay rent and LB units were slowly being withdrawn. It is a good read for all stages of life and thanks for the motivation. I agree totally about God's design about marriage. Mortarmans thread on husband and wives roles spoke volumes to me. I strive to live my life in that manner that is why I chose to be baptized.
TD - I am reading Mortarman's thread also. Really helps alot. Did you notice that he kept pushing his WW or trying to "steer the ship" in the beginning? And only after he pulled back did his WW start to come closer. It seems to be a continuing story on all the posts.
I AM @$#%^ MAD! Went to WW place of work, a department store. Had to get St. Patrick day shirt for DS, thought I could use this as a Plan A moment. When I went to her department and ask if she was at work her co worker stated that she was on leave due to her sick Grandma. So, I call WW acting like I didn't know she was out of town. No answer. She called me back in 3 minutes and I answer.
Me: Hello, (I used WW name) WW: Hi, you called. Me: Yea, are you at work? I was headed up there to get DS4 a shirt for St. Paddy's day for his school. WW: I'm not at work. Me: Well you want to meet us there? Are you out of town or something? WW: Um, yes. Me: Where are you? WW: (long pause) Me: Are you in PR? WW: Um yea. Me: How's your grandma? WW: She's fine. (keep in mind grandma might not live to see June.) Me: How's SS? Can DS and I speak with him WW: No, where is DS? Me: He's just fell asleep. WW: (phone making white noise) Can I call you back later I am kind of busy now. Me: Ok.
I used my brain housing group and called SIL. Asked her if it was ok if WW used her phone in order to call and speak to DS and DS and I to speak to SS. She said she doesn't live there anymore (with MIL I knew that) and she would head over there and call me back. However, she was somewhat surprised that WW was in town. Long story, short instead of seeing her terminally ill grandmother, instead of seeing her abandonded child she used them as excuse to lay up with POSOM! I am so furious, I had thoughts of calling her back and cussing her out for blatantly lying to me and DS for no good reason. Oh, and she never called! I don't know what to do right now? I worked out hard today and DS and I made lasagna together, played Xbox, and toy soldiers. I can't help but let my mind wander to WW and why she would do this.
Why do WW lie? Do they honestly think that BS are so friggin' dumb to believe anything that comes out of their mouths? Where is a good place to put a GPS tracker on a car? Anyone know what I should do when she does return and comes to get her cake eating on? I really wanted to throw in the towel today and say F it. I looked at DS just now as he was sleeping and SS empty bunk bed up top and that notion quickly evaporated. As of now I really feel the emotional weight of the saying, NO EXPECTATIONS. This is like a bad direct to DVD movie that I am trapped in. What stick should be applied to this latest trangression.
I am documenting everything as well. Guess, I need some affirmation or 2x4's not sure. This is emotionally draining, I am so pissed at her right now. I don't understand how you can throw away your life, vows, children and your own self respect for a fling that has no foundation other than complaints about your husband to lie with some slimy worm that uses bible quotes to get in your panties. How can you be so blind, deaf and dumb about destroying a 5 year marriage and wonderful children and a loving husband? When my anger recedes I guess its crying time....
After battling doubts of crying and anger, I gather myself and took another crack at getting more evidence of this horrendous act my WW has thrusted upon our family. I got some juicy intel that I plan on showing her side of the family when I go see SS and ill grandmother. I literally threw up. This guy is a piece of work and so is she. I plan on talking to SIL tomorrow and see what her reason was not to call back with WW so DS can talk with SS and WW. If she covers for WW, which I doubt, I know I have a neutral party that can be shifted to reason and logic. If she does lie then I know where her morals & loyalties lie. Her family is taking the firm stance of inaction and it sickens me. Seeing SS and grandma will be my primary objectives on this trip. Secondary and last objectives will be exposure of new evidence and demanding they take an active role aka being a friend of our marriage.
After battling doubts of crying and anger, I gather myself and took another crack at getting more evidence of this horrendous act my WW has thrusted upon our family. I got some juicy intel that I plan on showing her side of the family when I go see SS and ill grandmother. I literally threw up. This guy is a piece of work and so is she. I plan on talking to SIL tomorrow and see what her reason was not to call back with WW so DS can talk with SS and WW. If she covers for WW, which I doubt, I know I have a neutral party that can be shifted to reason and logic. If she does lie then I know where her morals & loyalties lie. Her family is taking the firm stance of inaction and it sickens me. Seeing SS and grandma will be my primary objectives on this trip. Secondary and last objectives will be exposure of new evidence and demanding they take an active role aka being a friend of our marriage.
Dude, what "epiphany" do you expect to be visited upon the woman that you are discussing? After all this time, with all the betrayals, self-inflicted harm, and dissipation of any/all moral grounding, are you still convinced that there will be a miraculous transformation in her beliefs and behavior?
You have to decide on, and stick to, a Plan.
A Plan A response would have been: Well, I just found out WW is in PR, presumably engaging in sexual congress with OM. I will have to await her return to resume my efforts to shower her in ENs.
A Plan B response would have been:............................(Who are we talking about?)
Plan TD has cost you a couple international phone call charges, several hours of your life, and a gallon(?) of stomach acid.
Your efforts to demonstrate WW's faithlessness to her family will yield nothing of value. You could prove her responsible for the Lindbergh kidnapping, cholera, and Hurricane Sandy, and their reaction would be, "You claim she is an evil, adulterous whore. That may be so, but she is our evil, adulterous whore." Wrestling with pigs is useless: The pigs enjoy it, and you get covered in [censored].
Plan A. NG, I will just have to wait and continue. BH I'm going mid April. KR I agree my LB$ isn't that low where Plan B will be needed. The intel I receive shows that she isn't in PR at all. I want to show her family this information, I feel that it might work but I'm wavering on this. Right now I'm not waiting for some epiphany I know that wont happen anytime soon. Just standing my ground and being calm, gentle yet firm with WW and this situation. This intel also helps me with the custody case as well. I knew what I would find but didn't think it would affect me this much. So, I plan on focusing on myself while she is go e and DS as well. Good news my mother who is a WW wants to write a letter to my WW explaining to her how she messed up her life looking for "lurve" instead of keeping her vows to my father. My sister, best friend and wife, and father as well. They all want to put their feelings on paper and want me to hand deliver them to her upon her return. I think this would be a good idea. Opinions?
I think it would be best for them to approach her themselves. Coming from you, she will view it as you trying to educate her. Remember, FOG = Irrational Thinking.
You maybe right in that aspect. I'll brainstorm something and post it. I'm thinking about signing up for coaching. Thoughts, on this? I'm on the fence because it seems to be more couples based not for the individual. Also, get the 2x4s ready I sent this to WW.
WW,
I understand your busy. I hope all is well in PR. Please let SS know DS and I miss them and he is in our prayers. You are as well. I'm not sure if your with POSOM or in Puerto Rico as you say. Please click the link and read the article in its entirety. I am still wiling to restore our marriage. I want to make a strong marriage where both of our needs are met. I have made some mistakes but nothing like the pain your inflicting upon our family. I empathize your need to be happy I truly believe happiness achieved by selfishness and pain towards the ones who love you isn't happiness but an excuse to be selfish and uncaring. Deep down you know that even though I don't know the dynamics of your affair I do know your suffering and I am not to blame. Please read this article that I attached to this email.
Closely, look at the behavior of this predator you are sinning with and yours. I don't know if your still consider yourself a Christian but do you 100% believe your walking a path of righteousness? I feel you know your messing up your life and more importantly our children's lives. It's ok to make mistakes but to sin and not show repentance isn't the way to be forgiven.
In order to be forgiven you pay back what you stole, destroyed, or damage. You asked me if I would forgive you? The answer is no to forgive is to say I'm ok with your behavior and dishonesty to our family and our vows before God. Forgiveness is earned not given. In order to earn my forgiveness, I will need you to end your adultery and come home and work on our marriage.
Through better or worse through thick and thin our souls are intertwined before Him. Ask yourself this did him and his ex-fianc� meet while be was still married? Is he in a rush to be engaged to you? Do you honestly believe he has your best interest at heart? Is he a caring loving father? I know you have stated that his ex-wife is/was an drug addict. What part did he play in that? Does his ex really keep the kids from him? If she is that messed up why doesn't he have custody or allowed to see them? Why does he a profile on a swinging website? Last I checked that isn't very Christian like. He has has that profile since he was 26, that puts him in a marriage to EX WIFE, an engagement to monique and a adulterous relationship to you. I put money he still has it and probably another child floating around somewhere. Here is the link for the article: http://media.affairrecovery.com.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/31reasons.pdf Thanks for reading it and I care about you always
WW's reply:
TD don't email me about POSOM again. I don't care what you have to say or think about him after all they are all speculations. You filed for divorce which means you were done with our marriage and that regardless of what you think just give me permission to move on. All I want is for our divorce to be finalized and to have both my children back with me so they can be together. Stay off my business please.
My response:
You misunderstand, it's not about POSOM its about our family. I filed for divorce to protect me from your erratic behavior. You claim I'm an abusive person yet you have sex outside our marriage with another man? I do not want a divorce, but I refused to be in marriage where my wife wants to have a boyfriend and a husband. It's disrespectful to our children, you, and me. From your response you are with him right now. What sort of person gets involved with a married woman? What woman who deems herself a Christian do the things you are doing? I pray that God will touch your heart and open your eyes to your sinning. I asked you what is the worst thing a wife could do to her husband and its adultery. Please explain this abuse you claim. You ran off with our kids with his help. You hit me and was arrested. You had sex outside the marriage and openly flirted with other man with no shame, you keep SS from DS and I because of your affair. You are depressed because of your affair. Your business is my business we are married. I hope every time you look at SS and DS you remind yourself who their father is and will always be. I am a person whose feelings you ravaged as are your kids. You do this for what? Getaways and sex in hotels with a sexual predator? I'm sorry but you have me confused with someone else. Tell your boyfriend if I ever see him be ready to fight! The bible said what God has made no man or court can unmake. That is what marriage is. I'm sorry if you feel different now but in time you will see that we have something more than what you have with POSOM or any other man. God bless you and take care.
You maybe right in that aspect. I'll brainstorm something and post it. I'm thinking about signing up for coaching. Thoughts, on this? I'm on the fence because it seems to be more couples based not for the individual. Also, get the 2x4s ready I sent this to WW.
WW,
I understand your busy. I hope all is well in PR. Please let SS know DS and I miss them and he is in our prayers. You are as well. I'm not sure if your with POSOM or in Puerto Rico as you say. Please click the link and read the article in its entirety. I am still wiling to restore our marriage. I want to make a strong marriage where both of our needs are met. I have made some mistakes but nothing like the pain your inflicting upon our family. I empathize your need to be happy I truly believe happiness achieved by selfishness and pain towards the ones who love you isn't happiness but an excuse to be selfish and uncaring. Deep down you know that even though I don't know the dynamics of your affair I do know your suffering and I am not to blame. Please read this article that I attached to this email.
Closely, look at the behavior of this predator you are sinning with and yours. I don't know if your still consider yourself a Christian but do you 100% believe your walking a path of righteousness? I feel you know your messing up your life and more importantly our children's lives. It's ok to make mistakes but to sin and not show repentance isn't the way to be forgiven.
In order to be forgiven you pay back what you stole, destroyed, or damage. You asked me if I would forgive you? The answer is no to forgive is to say I'm ok with your behavior and dishonesty to our family and our vows before God. Forgiveness is earned not given. In order to earn my forgiveness, I will need you to end your adultery and come home and work on our marriage.
Through better or worse through thick and thin our souls are intertwined before Him. Ask yourself this did him and his ex-fianc� meet while be was still married? Is he in a rush to be engaged to you? Do you honestly believe he has your best interest at heart? Is he a caring loving father? I know you have stated that his ex-wife is/was an drug addict. What part did he play in that? Does his ex really keep the kids from him? If she is that messed up why doesn't he have custody or allowed to see them? Why does he a profile on a swinging website? Last I checked that isn't very Christian like. He has has that profile since he was 26, that puts him in a marriage to EX WIFE, an engagement to monique and a adulterous relationship to you. I put money he still has it and probably another child floating around somewhere. Here is the link for the article: http://media.affairrecovery.com.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/31reasons.pdf Thanks for reading it and I care about you always
WW's reply:
TD don't email me about POSOM again. I don't care what you have to say or think about him after all they are all speculations. You filed for divorce which means you were done with our marriage and that regardless of what you think just give me permission to move on. All I want is for our divorce to be finalized and to have both my children back with me so they can be together. Stay off my business please.
My response:
You misunderstand, it's not about POSOM its about our family. I filed for divorce to protect me from your erratic behavior. You claim I'm an abusive person yet you have sex outside our marriage with another man? I do not want a divorce, but I refused to be in marriage where my wife wants to have a boyfriend and a husband. It's disrespectful to our children, you, and me. From your response you are with him right now. What sort of person gets involved with a married woman? What woman who deems herself a Christian do the things you are doing? I pray that God will touch your heart and open your eyes to your sinning. I asked you what is the worst thing a wife could do to her husband and its adultery. Please explain this abuse you claim. You ran off with our kids with his help. You hit me and was arrested. You had sex outside the marriage and openly flirted with other man with no shame, you keep SS from DS and I because of your affair. You are depressed because of your affair. Your business is my business we are married. I hope every time you look at SS and DS you remind yourself who their father is and will always be. I am a person whose feelings you ravaged as are your kids. You do this for what? Getaways and sex in hotels with a sexual predator? I'm sorry but you have me confused with someone else. Tell your boyfriend if I ever see him be ready to fight! The bible said what God has made no man or court can unmake. That is what marriage is. I'm sorry if you feel different now but in time you will see that we have something more than what you have with POSOM or any other man. God bless you and take care.
Your letters love bust BIG TIME. The DJs and educational pieces are not part of Plan A.
You either need to Plan A properly or go through with ending the marriage, in which case you can write anything you like, criticising her behaviour and insulting her boyfriend (accurate though those DJs and insults are) all you wish.
If you are in Plan A and really trying to save this marriage, then letters should be love letters. If you can't write a love letter then be quiet - you don't have to write letters at all. That was in no way a love letter.
You are absolutely correct. I failed in keeping my feelings in check. Should I apologize now of when I see her. As soon as I sent them I wish I could take it back. My taker took over for awhile and I tried to straighten her out. I'm going to maintain silence with her when I'm upset. Going to sign up for coaching today as well. I need some serious help to break up this affair. My hope isn't smashed and my LB is stable. I know I can do this but its so frustrating!
You need phone coaching at the moment. The online course only works when both spouses are completing the exercises. They are designed for couples to share with each other.
Church was awesome! Had a sermon on baptism and commitment. Getting baptized this Sunday I am so excited and humbled. WW emailed me and I replied with a simple I apologize and picture of DS and I at my best friend daughter's birthday. I'm still a mess but who isn't in this situation.
Found out POSOM asked my WW to marry her and she declined. Because of her family aka her children. Is this good sign? I'm so depressed.
Well she can't marry until she's divorced. The government won't allow it. So how can she turn down an offer, and how can he make an offer that neither can fulfill?
I wouldn't place to much significance on the rejected marriage proposal for the reasons JK pointed out.
I was baptized at 12 and I still remember how it felt. Almost as if you leave everything in the water and come up new.. no exactly as if. God bless you.
Can't wait till it happens. I can't believe the audacity of this POSOM. Following the script just like his ex-wife said. BP and JK your right, it just feels so hopeless now. I'm sure I'm not the first BH to go through this, I mean who asks someone to marry them with all that baggage and more importantly IS ALL READY MARRIED! This SOB is a friggin' mess. Realistically, she said no and they got into email argument over it. Guess things got smoothed over but there is trouble in paradise. He also wants her to move in with him and his mom!
Hilarious! I have one of his pay stubs and he makes 15$ dollars an hour! I'm in the military making nice money! Here's another shocker, my wife likes to work she is by no means a lazy person. She must of passed this information on to him and he is sending her job applications for jobs that make more than him LOL. Classic lame "man". He wants her to make more money than him, get custody of the children for child support money and while he actively looks for a better job (yea right) she makes all the money while he spends it. Using a vulnerable, emotionally unstable woman to move out of mummy's house! Dr. H said during my radio show that I am a level above my wife and she may feel inferior to me. That's why she's with POSOM because she feels like an equal to him. That is dead-on! Anyways I am done ranting please pray for my family! Walls and doors!
Using my snooping. Don't want to reveal too much. There was an email with her asking why she couldn't to him. I guess afterwards he gave her a huge argument about it and my name came up. He ignored her for a couple of weeks and she emailed him to get his attention because he f'n feelings were hurt. So to make up for it she went to see him and used her ill grandmother as an excuse for me and her job. I have trip confirmation proving this as well.
Understood, seems that way to me as well. WW is now following (twitter) the church where POSOM goes. I sent a package detailing the affair to the Pastor, elders, and Pastor's wife. I plan on calling that church today and letting them know that POSOM new girl is indeed my wife. Wish me luck.
You've played so many video games that you actually think you are a hero. Stop trying to play hero (save our marriage, marriage you broke) and mortifying me because that's all you're doing and get this over with. I have been calling almost everyday and it either goes straight to voicemail, you do not answer or the call gets ignored. I want to talk to my son. I know you don't like it but he is my son too and he is not with me not because I abandoned him but because you took him away from and I DON'T CARE what you do or say I will NEVER forgive you for that. Just please let me talk to him, I miss and love him very much but I also have another son who needs me and so now I am doing what I have to for SS.
Well, dude, the answer to this letter would be dependent on the plan being followed. Let me illustrate:
MARRIAGE BUILDERS' PLANS
Plan A: WW, I remain ever hopeful of our reconciliation, and assure you that as you repent of your misguided and immoral behavior and affair with POSOM, DS and I would welcome you back into our hearts and arms. The next step would be to reunite the step-brothers, and the four of us would proceed to repair what has been damaged, and create a marriage that would be the envy of all that observe us.
Plan B: IM, I'm so glad that I've not been bothered by any mindless, self-serving communication from WW, trying to draw me into the cesspool of recrimination and ill-feelings that I escaped via Plan B. BTW: IM, how about those Yankees!
NON-MARRIAGE BUILDERS' PLANS
Plan NG: WW, your note confirms exactly how warped and irrational is your view of the world. I am turning it over to my lawyer, and the GAL evaluating our son's case, as yet more evidence of your unfitness as a mother, and quite frankly, as anything except what you are, a vehicle for POSOM's perverse lusts. Have a Nice Day!
Plan TD: Colleagues, WW emailed me this how should I respond?
TQ my ex wife could have written that letter. Complete nonsense. I wouldn't respond. It could be a legal trap for divorce custody issues, the manner she sent it in email form so it is written and documented.
She's probably getting legal advice from toxic people as most wayward women do
My reply, I haven't sent it. Wanted to post it for review/edit. NG I chose plan a. JK I don't think that is the case. She is currently with MIL bashing my character to her enabling family. Her fling with POSOM is over and they aren't together physically at this time. She is justifying her actions with the excuse that I'm keeping SS and her from DS. she has court order supervised visitation for 6 hours every week. She has yet to set it up and I document everything.
WW, I remain ever hopeful of our reconciliation, and assure you that as you repent of your misguided and immoral behavior and affair with POSOM, ***** and I would welcome you back into our hearts and arms. The. The next step would be to reunite brothers, and the four of us would proceed to repair what has been damaged, and create a marriage that would be the envy of all that observe us. I don't think this will be easy but I know it can be done. You have 6 hours a week visitation with DS. I do everything I can to make it easy for you to fulfill it.
How is SS? DS and I really miss him and you and pray for you both everyday. You emailed me that you would call after church and I did not receive a call. We also attended church as well. I will be getting baptized soon. I pray that all is well with you and your family, I don't know what you tell them about me or if you let them read my emails to you. Please let me be clear, I will not be friends with you after divorce. I will not talk to you at all not will you hear from me. I refuse to be in a marriage where you feel it's ok and justified to be with another man emotionally and sexually. 21st of March mean anything to you?
It is the day I was at Dads on leave and asked you to be my girlfriend. Remember that? When I got back on the 28 we made love on the rooftop of the condo at ***** in the rain. If your in ***** drive by it. See if ____ is still alive and get the money he owes us lol. Remember how I taught SS how to ride his bike around there? And you use to run around the urbanization? I want that back x10. I am not a hero just a man who loves a ***** named WW and that ****** loved him. Answer this if you reply to this email. Cast aside your emotions, wouldn't it make sense to be madly in love with your husband and the father of your son and #1 male father figure of WW? Good night and I pray for your safety and that God will open your eyes and for our marriage.
shortened it and sent it. My plan is when she gets back to town is to Plan A her and not bring up the fact I know the depth of her adultery. Also, not too much just enough to leave her wanting more. In better news, played 4 hours of basketball, ran 3 miles and boy am I tired. Is it Friday yet? DS and I plan on baking cookies this weekend. Should be a fun time. He is getting taller and more talkative everyday. His quick wit and intelligence astounds me on a daily basis. Joined a men's Christian group starting next week. DS and I are attending family counseling together as well. Starting to see hope in this hopeless situation. Thanks everyone for your help, this website, church and Dr. Harley's radio show and books have kept me sane throughout this ordeal.
shortened it and sent it. My plan is when she gets back to town is to Plan A her and not bring up the fact I know the depth of her adultery. Also, not too much just enough to leave her wanting more. In better news, played 4 hours of basketball, ran 3 miles and boy am I tired. Is it Friday yet? DS and I plan on baking cookies this weekend. Should be a fun time. He is getting taller and more talkative everyday. His quick wit and intelligence astounds me on a daily basis. Joined a men's Christian group starting next week. DS and I are attending family counseling together as well. Starting to see hope in this hopeless situation. Thanks everyone for your help, this website, church and Dr. Harley's radio show and books have kept me sane throughout this ordeal.
TD I am reading QueeniesAdventures thread, and she was a great plan Aer also. She used to send E-cards on special occasions. I just thought you might set one up for Mar 21.
Ecard set up to be sent tomorrow thanks for the idea. Had a blast with DS, cookies are awesome now I need to get myself on the treadmill to run off these sugary calories lol. I was always an awesome father, thanks for reminding me BH.
Well, WW called and talk to DS for about 2 min. He told her he was busy and hung up on her after asking when she and his brother was coming home. She also told him she wasn't with MIL and she was far away. As soon as he hung up on her he said she was with POSOM. Smart guy, hurts though. She read my e card today didn't say anything in the call about it. Should I send emails of DS and I having fun? She also sounded kind of depressed on the phone. I guess the fun wallowing in sin is getting to her. Just did 67 push ups because I'm so angry goin to play Xbox with DS that might calm me down. I really wanted to take the phone and show her my anger and ask why but that wouldn't help anything. Made a new dish for dinner tonight was good. Just started cooking as a self improvement job and it works lol. Just had to rant and vent here thanks for letting me do that guys. Stay the course. Be the lighthouse. Pray for walls and doors. Clean up my side of the street. *phew*
That's right TD. Keep the focus on you and DS as much as possible. WW is in a confused state. She will probably want to come back after things with POSOM tank. The question in my mind is how long that will take and if you will want her back then. Just conjecture anyhow. Your DS really is a smart little guy. Though she probably thinks you're telling him things.
Lawyer says there is nothing I can do, unless she decides to bring him back. I sent letters and they are received don't know if he gets to read them or they throw them away. She read the ecard after she call. Good sign IMO. God bless
TD, I have been catching up on your thread and wanted to applaud you for doing an amazing job! One thing that I wondered about is the OM's GF. Where is she? Did you get her # from the X-wife? Did you try to call her? Does she know about your wife?
Thanks ML! OM Ex fianc� left him because I exposed to her about my wife. That's what prompted him to propose to my WW. Seems his ex was his OW during the last years of his marriage now he's repeating the behavior with my wife.
Well WW called and wanted to talk to DS before she went to church. It's amazing how someone can continue to live in sin yet decide the should go to church with their AP. The church haven't called me back. Tried again and left another message going to give up that avenue. After all the church got my exposure packages and should know of the situation. In better news getting ready to go to church now looking forward to it. Got a special event planned for DS and I as well.
Weekend was awesome. DS and I had a good time. In her voicemail WW sounded depressed and it made me wonder. Anyways, DS and I called her back but of course she didn't answer. It's so sad, looking forward to this weekend especially church. Nothing else to update. Lot of new posters on the threads and it hurts my heart to see people affected by adultery like this on a daily basis. Should outlaw adultery and make it a felony or something. Messed up society morals make being a player and adulterer cool.
WW called for DS I answered and DS didn't want to talk her.
WW: SS is happy but he said F you to FIL.
Me: What did you do to him?
WW: nothing I'm not going to whoop and discipline him while he going through things. Some days he's happy but he's mostly angry
Me: SS never acted like that when we were together
WW: *sigh* I know... He also got mad at me and scribbled all over my baby picture.
Me: He wouldn't be so mad if you would bring him home. This is not only hurting me but our children as well. DS had strep throat and now we are getting our tonsils taken out.
WW: let me know when that happens.
Me: Sure, how's your Grandma?
WW: She is fine and has pain in her ears. They did a MRI
Me: pain or ringing.
WW: Pain.
Me: when will you be in town I need your W-2s for the taxes and your signature
WW: Are you stupid? You need my W-2s to file jointly
Me: I know that's what I said.
WW: I worked at three different places don't you need those?
Me: yes but if you can't get them your Military w-2 will be easier and ill file with that one.
WW: I will fax them. At a kinkos
Me: to where my job?
WW: duh yes where else you don't have a fax.
Me: just making sure. Are you ok? Will you be here for Easter
WW: don't worry about me! I just got here I'm comfy. I don't want to leave I just got here.
Me: I worry because I care and take my vows seriously. Take care.
WW: thanks for letting me speak with WW.
Me: your his mom you can speak with him anytime I'm available. Bye
WW: (slight hesitation) bye.
From that conversation she isn't in PR with sick grandma or SS. There isn't a kinkos in PR. She also said she talked to SS and he ruined her picture if she was there that wouldn't happen. My fears are coming true SS has extreme anger at his mom and her family and has an unhealthy outlet for it. While she is ignorant and sexing up POSOM. DS has wrote her off, on the bright side I held my DJs and anger in check and handled it well I think. Really wanted to say more but would of been lovebusters. She tried to insult me to trigger an argument because POSOM is next to her. I didn't bite, long road ahead trying to be rock strong for our kids sakes. Any advice on how to handle this better? No response from the Harley's on my email.
Also got hit on today by three random women. Told them all I'm emotionally unavailable and Married! Felt good though to see my stock is still high. KUNDARIES ARE REINFORCED AND IRON TIGHT!
Email resent. Had a nice Easter! Spent time hunting eggs, cooking, and playing video games with my nieces and DS. Need some advice. My good friend who was in a 10 year affair has seen through the fog. Too bad it took him 4 kids and a failed relationship with his OW to see it. His wife as welcomed him back. I haven't spoke to him about it but would like to introduce him and his wife to this program. Should I just give him the SAA book or send him here first?
Sent WW pics of DS and I at church for Easter. Also, pics of us having some Easter fun wishing she was here. No call for DS or response to said emails. Interestingly enough MIL sent DS and I an Easter card. Inside it said god bless us and she would love DS and I forever. SS wrote in it as well, seems the proof is in the pudding and MIL is starting to see the real villian. Cause she never done anything like this before. It's sad but I'm not counting her as a friend of my marriage. If she was SS would be home and she would refuse to keep him while WW is acting like a loose teenager! Also mentioned in the email I got baptized and included a pic of it for WW. Hope everyone had a good Easter cause I did!
4 kids with OW and 2 kids with wife. I'm going to talk to him today about NC if he really wants it to work. The OW claimed he cheated on her too. I haven't confirmed this with him its on the docket when we talked. I simply told her what do you expect he's married and with you. His whole situation is his fault and he knows it.
4 kids with OW and 2 kids with wife. I'm going to talk to him today about NC if he really wants it to work. The OW claimed he cheated on her too. I haven't confirmed this with him its on the docket when we talked. I simply told her what do you expect he's married and with you. His whole situation is his fault and he knows it.
Did his wife know about the other 4 kids? Was it a secret double life? His wife is probably better off without him
I've been catching up with your thread, and a few things have stood out since you began posting on 9-11. (How's that date for a coincidence?)
Your commitment to your marriage is admirable, and your children are very lucky to have you as a father. You are a first rate spouse, and your wife has been on a reckless path of self-destruction that she will regret for the rest of her life if she doesn't snap out of her fog.
Congratulations on your baptism. Google or Youtube the song "Baptism" by Kenney Chesney and Randy Travis. It captures the beauty and profundity of the sacrament.
I think your efforts at Plan A have been good, and I think it is a good idea to stick with it until the divorce is final. Like everyone else who must pass through the trial by fire also known as Plan A you have good days and bad days. Here are things you should be mindful of:
A) You reach points where you educate and moralize your WW. Be aware of this pitfall and stop doing it. It's very hard because what she is doing is foolish and immoral. If you need to vent, do it with us, but not with her. She is confronting the awful consequences of her actions already, and your moralizing and educating doesn't serve you well. Let the consequences be her teacher. Coming from you it will only turn her off. That is not to say avoid the stick of Plan A. Keep to your legal plan, which you have executed very well, and keep to the terms you have set for reconciliation. Just don't talk about them or the relationship until she is ready to come back.
B) Stop trying to get her family to intervene. You did this with exposure and have followed through, which was great. Your efforts and non-waffling with exposure are commendable. But by now her family knows what is going on, and they have taken the enabling approach as so many do. Reaching out to them for help at this point is counterproductive in my opinion. Just continue to model being a good father and keep them out of the fray unless they suddenly show a willingness to support your efforts.
So with A and B above, think of St. Francis of Assisi who said, "Preach the Gospel...and use words if you have to."
C) I think you should do your Plan A from a distance. I did this and it worked for me. Like you, my wife was out of the house. I gave her the choice of leaving the affair or leaving the house. She chose the latter. I struggled mightily with all the awful things she did and said, but I was able to deal with it more productively since she was away. Distance helped me avoid disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts.
During this time, I picked and chose opportunities to do nice things for her. I would get her soup when she was sick, I would text her nice messages on special occasions, and send an occasional love letter. You've done a great job with this, by the way.
But, TD, I never said, "I LOVE YOU." Why? Because I felt it would be a turn off to her. Plus I didn't feel like saying it after all she had done. Have you noticed that your I LOVE YOUS have gotten you nowhere? I don't think women respond well to men who cry and say I love you when they are being treated like dirt by the women to whom they are saying it to. They often perceive it as a weakness and women hate that in men from what I've read on this board and have observed from my own wife. So show her you love her with acts of kindness and caring, but imo it's not prudent to profess your love. I think women look for leadership from their men, and men who love unconditionally--who don't set limits and who allow others to walk all over them--are seen as weak and repulsive.
One more thing about the carrot of Plan A. Be moderate. Don't overdue it. Space out your acts. That will give them more impact and she will not take them for granted. The fact that she is away makes this easy.
I am not recommending a modified plan a. I am recommending you tone down things. Communicate less often, but make each communication count. This will minimize the drama she brings and help you to more easily avoid educating and moralizing, and it will help you manage your own emotions better. It will also show her that you can stand on your own two feet and will not necessarily be there at her beck and call. This will keep the embers of love she has for you alive even while she in the fog.
D) You have a great intuition for your WW's feelings. Yes, she is steeped in guilt and depression over what she has done. And a part of her still loves you. My FWW also sees this having read parts of your thread. I have learned from her that PRIDE, not just the addiction of the affair, affects WW's actions.
When I was going through this, someone here said that my old wife was still there, just covered by too many layers of fog. I doubted this and thought she was long gone, but I found out the MB poster was right. So keep throwing those pebbles in the river, TD. They are building up. Who knows if she will choose to cross the bridge. As NG has told you, "No expectation." In my case, I kept chucking them in, and by the time my WW was ready to cross the bridge I DIDN'T WANT HER TO. But eventually I came around.
E) I fear that some of what you are doing is enabling your WW. Whenever your WW shows signs of coming back you seem to drop your guard. If she does come back, the message she may be getting is that you will love her unconditionally. That should not be the case. She needs to know that if she comes back she can NEVER do this again. I know that you have set conditions for her return. Good job. And you have already done a great job of showing how you are going to be better husband, and that is what Plan A is all about. But she needs to see you as a strong man, firm and resolute.
In conclusion, you are doing a great job. I think if you tweak your tactics by pulling back a little your WW might find you more attractive and value more what you have to offer. Intellectually, she has to know that she has no future with this loser POSOM. (Her extremely bad judgment and lack of morals must be a huge concern for you moving forward.) Her relationship with this pond scum is based on pure fantasy. It can't last, and it won't.
Don't be so easy. When she senses that she could lose you--that you are not going to be her unconditional lover--she might snap out of it. Be loving and continue to meet her needs, but try and balance that with playing hard-to-get (or at least not so available). You may have to get through the divorce first for that to materialize. Good luck.
Well I've been following the advice. I call WW at least once a week we talked some mostly small. I notice she only talks when OM isn't around. To date I don't know where she is but I have a feeling she is with OM and will only travel here for court dates. I send her emails and pics of my and DS having fun and she responds sometimes. I try not to be overbearing and stopped the ILY crap.
Seems like a plan A from afar is my best bet. I don't prefer it but I don't prefer this situation either. In other news, women are coming out of the woodwork talking to me. For example, my best friend's sister is having relationship problems and told my BF that she had a dream we were together! BOUNDARIES are high, I simply told her I am committed to my marriage and gave her my HNHN and SAA books as I have them on my kindle now.
DS and I are having a blast! We go to the park, I am currently teaching him to ride his bike. Most of my free time is wrapped up with him. Going to sign him up for a soccer league as well. Getting warmer and I started back outside running! Love outdoor running, treadmills are boring lol. I haven't spoke to WW for a week or so and she hasn't responded to my emails as of late. I am kinda worried about her but it's in God's hands now.
I plan to Plan A to divorce and try not to intiate contact with her. However, if I do I will make it pleasant and fluffy. Going to moving out of state soon as I have to transfer. I haven't heard anything from SS at all and that worries me. I slacked and haven't sent him a letter in awhile need to get back on that. I haven't heard anything from my email either. I see and hate to say it but reconcilation probably won't happen till after divorce. Praying everyday that I am wrong but as I have said it's in God's hands and I trust him completely! Thanks for your support and God bless!
As you read this, TD, the LB's are ramping up between your WW and her POSOM. These will build up until things fall apart over there. It may take awhile, but it will happen.
Meanwhile, you and your son are building a very special relationship. I remember applying the love I had once had for my wife to my children. We grew closer during that time, and even though it was a year-and-a-half of misery, I have very fond memories of the time I spent bonding with my daughters. You will look back on this time with your son with fondness.
I'm sure that your WW's friends and family are mortified that she has abandoned her children. She has devastated her reputation and her abandonment is weighing heavily on her.
You are making healthy life choices that will strengthen you no matter what happens. Good job recognizing that you're not a free agent just because you are separated. Do you still wear your ring? I think its important to keep it on until the marriage is over. It sends a message to your son, your WW, your family, and others in your circle.
TQ, My wife's affair started in July 2011 (possibly earlier). I fully exposed in Feb 2012 I think and was divorced in Juy 2012. She is still involved in the affair and living with him.
Like your wife, she abandoned me and the kids.
Just3 of us was similarly abandoned and was forced to be a single dad. His wife later returned, while I still contemplate how I will respond if my wife ever expressed a desire to return.
I had to let my wife go, and surrender her to God. I had to do it for my own health. I became so physically exhausted near the end that I nearly vomited And was sick with exhaustion.
Today I am happy. I love life. I truly do love to live. And that's all I want to focus on, my life. Not my ex wife's.
I had a friend years ago that was married (he's an older man) when he was 18. They had a son with severe epilepsy. His wife, handed him their baby and told him she couldn't handle being a mom anymore and left him and the baby. He made a career change and other accommodations to raise his son; when I knew him the boy was 18. The mom never returned.
You do what Plan A you can - but remember that the real shell-shock of the Plan A --> Plan B setup is when you will no longer meet any of her emotional needs. When you show that divorce means no more friendly phone calls, no more financial bailouts. When you leave the affair to stand on it's own rotten base.
If reconciliation is truly your goal, THAT is why you go into Plan B, and you do so before your LB$ is so drained that you will absolutely not reconcile.
Because, it will happen. Your LB$ will drain, and when it's all gone, you won't be interested any more.
Make sure that both your plan and your timeline match your goal.
My plan is to slow the divorce as much as I can. Seems I have to batten down the hatches and wait this out. When my LB$ balance is low I will plan b. I am planning a plan b when divorce is final and preparing to do so until she willing to work on the marriage. It will be hard but it will be worth it. I agree with you JK I can only control me and how I react to outside stimuli. Also, Just3 I agree with not expecting her family for help and that affairland is in shambles as I type this. I don't have proof but I know it in my heart. My gut is telling me this. Will keep you all posted.
I haven't been around as long as some folks, but I do remember in my first few months here a poster returning because at almost exactly the 2 year mark, his XWW had started sniffing around... things in wayward-topia were falling apart.
Again, the key thing will be protecting your LB$ from further withdrawals by isolating yourself from her wayward behavior.
I certainly hope it isn't the way you have to go, TD...
Though, looking at your join date... you've been fighting this fight for a minimum of 7 months.
Have you ever wrote into the radio show? If you haven't recently, it might be a good time to touch base and tighten up your plans!
Negative, BH. HHH I'm in for the long haul and know about the 2 year golden rule. Just went for a run and my mile time is down . But my time with DS is up lol. Tonight we are cooking dinner again together and going to watch spongebob! Can't wait till the warmer weather! Everyday even though the contact is sporadic I feel better about my situation. I felt really enlightened about the outcome in my favor after the baptism. Never been big in Christ and I missed out. WW is very religious and we both did a 180 in our faith. Strange isn't? Hope that and Him lead her home
re: "Never been big in Christ and I missed out. WW is very religious and we both did a 180 in our faith. Strange isn't? Hope that and Him lead her home."
TD,
As a priest friend of mine said when I was in the midst of Plan A, "Trust in God."
We don't know what God's plan is for us, and we are given free will. Hopefully she will listen to the Lord and overcome the temptations that have taken her off the path. In the meantime, you are now walking with Him and that is a tremendous blessing to you and your son. God bless.
I wanted you to know that we answered your email question on today�s Marriage Builders Radio Show, Friday, April 1, 2013.
Our discussion about your question was after the caller and we referenced you as �Listener.�
You can listen to the show by going to www.marriagebuilders and clicking on the tab Listen Now on the homepage. This show will be replayed the entire weekend until noon, Central Time, Monday, April 15, 2013.
Please feel free to get back to us with any further questions. Joyce Harley
I wanted you to know that we answered your email question on today�s Marriage Builders Radio Show, Friday, April 1, 2013.
Our discussion about your question was after the caller and we referenced you as �Listener.�
You can listen to the show by going to www.marriagebuilders and clicking on the tab Listen Now on the homepage. This show will be replayed the entire weekend until noon, Central Time, Monday, April 15, 2013.
Please feel free to get back to us with any further questions. Joyce Harley
BH can you post this radio show please!
I'm confused. April 1st was a Monday show and there is no segments with the caller called "listener". Maybe she meant this Friday the 12th? If it is the 12th I will post it as soon as they put it in the archives.
Here is the April 1st show in case I missed something.
Yes they addressed TD's situation yesterday. Interestingly, Joyce referenced WW's "failure to adhere to the visitation plan" as a euphemism for "exporting DSS to a Caribbean exile" !!
Heard it and will adhere to it. Your right by the way NG! I haven't heard from her in a week and she stop responding to my emails. Should I do some digging to see if she is in town? Thanks for your help Justuss and I shall persevere. Any good plan A ideas I haven't already done?
Well WW is living with POSOM thousands of miles away. Mad and sad all at the same time. She quit her jobs she had in our city and no doubt told those folks I'm some abusive husband could tell by the looks I got when I visited the store. Really want to call her and her family and AO the mess out of them but I'll stick to venting on the boards. Her plan is simple not let me know where she is and when court dates come up say she is with her mother and not POSOM.
Is there any history on this forum of a WW abandoning her child and the father getting full custody? Could use some hopeful news now. Good thing it's warming up so I can go for a good long run. Trying to wrap my head around this, doesn't feel real but it is. My heart tells me she is happy for the moment and it will all implode wish I had a time machine or something to speed this up.
I know the future isn't written in stone but I already see how this is going to end. WW gets knocked up by POSOM and also gets knocked out by POSOM then wants to come back with another mans child expecting me to pick up the pieces post divorce. I on the other hand would be done with her and not willing to work anything out. She will then try all kinds of crazy stunts to bring me back to her and when the rejection is real she will attempt suicide. I'm not a marriage counselor but I have a little med background and I know my wife. Can't save them all I guess, really hope I am wrong about everything and she pulls her head out of friggin rectum and see what her life could be with our marriage and what it really is while she is sinning. Please pray for my family. Meanwhile I'm not going anywhere this forum probably saved my life with the support I have here. Thanks!
So sad that we know how the story will end but they don't. I really hope something happens with POSOM before the divorce is final. I'll be praying for you TD
Thanks for the kind words BP. NG I know and hear you brother but I will Plan A as much as I can when I do interact with her. When the divorce is final i poan on pulling the Plan B trigger. Hopefully this will end before the divorce is final and living there with the POSOM will erode the fantasy. Just kind of depressed right now runnin' a mini marathon this weekend and taking some time off of work soon. I will feel better in the meantime I'm focusing on DS and myself.
That sounds fun. I ran a 10k a couple weeks ago on a muddy trail. Running is really good. And I enjoy it. I don't know if I would be willing to give up running for the POJA If the issue ever came up.
TD, Hang in there, friend. As you know so well, you can't predict what will happen on WW's end, but you can control your actions and be assertive with the legal matters.
Be sure to DOCUMENT everything she is doing. This should help you with custody issues. Her actions have indicated that it is in your child's best interest that you have full custody. Not sure how the courts will see it, but I would be sure to document every text and e-mail, and keep a log of events. Date each log entry; I've read here that it is better to hand-write the entries.
I'm glad you have running. It is a great release and very healthy way to occupy your time. You are doing a great job of protecting your love bank and the one she has for you. Prayers for you and your family.
Haven't heard from SS. What is a settlement agreement? Not to verse with those and I document every interaction with WW. I hope th courts see that too my lawyer said that judges frown upon parents dating during divorce and co habiting with people who are strangers to the children. They consider is a unstable environment especially since she doesn't have the income to stand on her own.
WW called at an obscene hour DS and I were sleep. Emailed her that I was sorry we missed her call and hope she's ok. She left a voicemail sounding like she was outside claiming I was keeping DS from her. I wanted to say you moved miles away from DS and whoring around town with POSOM so the courts gave me temp custody but that wouldn't be plan A like.
WW called at an obscene hour DS and I were sleep. Emailed her that I was sorry we missed her call and hope she's ok. She left a voicemail sounding like she was outside claiming I was keeping DS from her. I wanted to say you moved miles away from DS and whoring around town with POSOM so the courts gave me temp custody but that wouldn't be plan A like.
I don't know, but it seems like the STICK of Plan A.
Originally Posted by Carrot and Stick of Plan A
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Ahhhhh, to balance the principles of "no DJs" and "maximizing PORH" is always a struggle!
How about this:
"You moved miles away from DS and whoring around town with POSOM so the courts gave me temp custody..." - BAD
"I believe when you moved miles away from DS you hurt him very badly, and I feel you are still whoring around town with POSOM so, thankfully, the courts gave me temp custody..." - GOOD
Tranquill--I read through a ton of your story--you posted some on my thread too--just want to say I respect the heck out of you for your courage, endurance, and fight. You get an elephant balls award in my book.
DBD I hope you learn from my actions and inactions. Thanks for your support. NG you are right and I sent that response BH you are correct as well. One of the major problems I have is tact. I'm working very hard with the slogan it's not what I say but how I say it.
WW called around 8pm wanting to speak with DS. Did not want to speak with me. Nor did I want to talk to her because I would AOed the heck out of her.
DS: I love you baby why don't you call mommy
DS: I've been busy with school. I'm sleepy please talk to my Dad
WW: (angry) no I don't I've been calling you but you guys don't answer. How's school?
DS: good I want to go to bed now bye.
WW: I missed you will see you soon, ok.
DS: bye.
I think that will be the last phone call I entertain. Simple fact is the court order doesn't say anything about calling and answering. She has alotted visitation yet doesn't exercise it. On top of that she lies to DS about her "frequent calling". What do you all think? I feel this is a stick like measure and I'm not denying her right to anything.
I feel this is a stick like measure and I'm not denying her right to anything.
Dude, your understanding of the overarching psychology behind Plan A is.....really bad.
Were there a judicial order prohibiting contact between WW and DS you would be fully Plan A in denying her access. (stick = "...let the repercussions from her behavior land on her....") But no such bar has been raised; it's all TD making this call. Which leads us to....
The "carrot" portion of Plan A is to be the EN-ergizer Bunny, pumping them good feelings her way with every bang of the drum. It's difficult to represent your denying phone contact between a mother and child as supplying any ENs. (Save her cell minutes?)
You keep saying "I'm in Plan A" like you're getting a tattoo done. Tattoos were developed (if you read Jared Diamond, The Third Chimpanzee) as a way to show that males were so virile and powerful, they could afford to devote pain and suffering in basically a useless exercise.
Maintaining a "trophy" Plan A, just to say you rode that sucker into the ground, is as useless an exercise. Not only is NG telling you this; your sub-conscious is as well!
So, entertaining calls was retarded check. Court order states visitation, which she hasn't been doing nothing about phone calls. Oh she emailed me as well here it is:
You believe whatever you want and that includes to believe I am a whore, I don't care about what you think about me. But one thing is true and that's that you do keep my son from me and that if DS and SS are not together is because of you, not me. I did not abandon my children in fact I tried to run away with them but you're so selfish and wanted to play like a punk and decided to take my little one hostage so I would go back to you and that is not going to happen. I much rather suffer now and feel that I stood up for what I believe and never feel that I gave you what you wanted. I know both my boys are going to be together soon and with me because you are bad, a very bad person and bad people always end up paying for what they do. I have not done anything wrong, all I wanted was to be happy with my two little ones but of course a self centered, selfish and narcissistic guy like you had to come along and do what your type do. I am doing ok but soon I will be doing very good and I sure hope you really became a Christian because you're going to need Jesus. What I want to do with my life stopped being your business the day you filed for divorce so stop speculating about my whereabouts and the people I stay with.
I love my sons more than anything in this world and I do believe that I am the better parent so you keep doing what you do if that makes you sleep at night but you know all you do is trying to make up for all the mess you've done. Don't put all that on me, I sleep very well at night I am not the one with a guilty conscious.
How should I respond I was thinking of saying this:
I am willing to make a marriage where both of our needs are met. I have a plan for our marriage to thrive as a mutual bonding partnership and not at the expense of each others feelings. However, I won't stand idle while you carry on an affair with POSOM and destroying our family. I feel in order for this to work no contact and full disclosure of your affair is needed. Please keep in mind that when the divorce is final I will not be your friend. Hope you are safe and you are in our prayers as well as SS.
NG! Your input is invaluable as well as everyone else's!
You are still making notes that she is taking no opportunity to have visits with DS, right? Or is there zero chance of her having any sort of custody arrangement change?
And good HEAVENS. Fog, fog, fog. She hasn't yet figured out that this isn't going to be friendly.
You've been in Plan A for a while, so that if you were to go into Plan B tomorrow...I'm not sure what would happen.
I wouldn't reply AT ALL. It's all fog and you can't do much with that.
I would not respond ; She sounds like my ex. You will love divorce and plan B if it comes to that, because it's refreshing to breathe fresh air and think clearly
She is still deep in the fog. And denial is the ugliest part of it maybe.
Regardless of what plan you are in, this is the mother of your son. I would never restrict calls, and you should encourage them to have a healthy relationship. But you should also fight your hardest for full custody since she is not fit to be good mom right now.
You are still in plan A. This means when she calls be kind, be gentle, and be nonjudgmental. As NG says, allowing her to talk to her son in a supportive way will make her see that you are a good father, and that means a lot to a gal.
At this point I WOULD NOT BRING UP THE RELATIONSHIP: yours and her or hers and the POSOM. Ignore both unless she asks to come back. Talking about it may make you feel vindicated, but ultimately it works against your plan. Instead, be a good guy and a gentleman and be it consistently. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. Show her you've changed and show her that the father of her child is the best option she has. And Never call her a whore again (even though she is being one.)
I think at this point, the distance will help you. As I said before, don't respond to her rants. Ever. Don't try and reason with her, because you can't reason with a Wayward in the fog. She is angry because she has lost her son, sullied her reputation, and is probably destitute. Deep down she knows this all her fault, but she needs to have a scapegoat, and the BS is always the lucky one. Let her stew in the consequences of her actions. You don't have to say a thing. Karma is doing its own work.
You said you were committed to be in Plan A until the divorce. That seems like a good, natural timeline. So finish strong, my man!
To recap: 1) Don't engage her when she wants to fight with you. 2) Avoid too much contact. The distance will help you deal with her crap. 3) Encourage her to have a good relationship with her son but still fight for full custody. 4) And keep looking for ways to fill her LB from a distance, even though I'm sure you are uninspired to do so. I would always say when I was where you are that any time I tried to meet my FWW's emotional needs I would throw up in my mouth.
Need help with #4. Sent her some pics of me and DS as well as some art projects he did in school and she replied that her son is so creative. Your right makes me sick. My reply was:
He's very creative. He misses "us" as do I. I will send you a copy of his Easter pics via email or snail mail. Have parent teacher conference today and started teaching him how to read. He knows the gist anyways. Take care.
3 things: 1) Don't talk about the relationship. 2) Don't talk about the relationship. 3) Don't talk about the relationship.
Instead, come across as caring, sensitive, but also strong and confident. Show her you are in good spirits (even if you're not). Be humorous if you can do it naturally.
You need to show her what she's missing. Show her you're a better catch. Don't focus on what you need, which is for her to come back, but on what she needs. What were EN's when you two were going strong? You may not be able to meet them if she is in the fog, but as the fantasy dies on the other side you might be able to start breaking through. Remember, each pebble thrown in the river slowly builds a bridge across.
If you can't do these things--and I completely understand if you can't--then I would simply be courteous and avoid being aloof. At least this way you are not making withdrawals from her LB like the other man probably is doing.
She is just like the common woman her top three are affection, intimate conversation and domestic support. I see your point and soon as I sent it I wished I didn't. Thinking of something for Mother's Day. Even though she has become a horrible mom. Might just do an e card it's simple and not too extravagant. I used to go all out on those special days.
Had an exciting weekend did a tough mudder style 5k and finish in 30 minutes. So proud of myself DS and I invited some friends over and had a picnic in the park/watergun fight was liberating lol. Heard nothing from WW. Today going to make that card and mail it to POSOM place as I'm sure she is there. Spoke with SIL in text and she wanted pics of me and DS. Sent those off and she is once again sorry for WW's actions. God bless!
Had an exciting weekend did a tough mudder style 5k and finish in 30 minutes. So proud of myself DS and I invited some friends over and had a picnic in the park/watergun fight was liberating lol. Heard nothing from WW. Today going to make that card and mail it to POSOM place as I'm sure she is there. Spoke with SIL in text and she wanted pics of me and DS. Sent those off and she is once again sorry for WW's actions. God bless!
WW called asked about DS and I told all the cool things we have done and he's fine. She then asked for the information for the MC we were seeing in the beginning. I gave her the information and she stated that DS is so distant with her when she calls and why he doesn't ask to call her. I told her he's always says he's busy and she the said she doesn't call because it hurts her feelings when he says he's busy and don't want to talk to her. I knew she was fishing for an argument so I ended the call. Court date for custody soon. I hope this judge has some common sense and hands me full custody. Praying for a righteous outcome.
That's one part of the infidelity equation isn't it, you trade your gold, your children, for lead, the OM, which is toxic, cheap and weighs you down in life.
Funny, TD, that sounds so much like the stuff my WH says...even accusingly for a while of parental alienation. Um, no, your child is not interested in you because you've shown little interest in him. Just brings the point home that waywards all think alike.
WW called and asked if she could see DS. I said of course and she plans on coming over tonite to visit him. I am so nervous, angry, and guarded about this. I know the only reason she is in town is because of the court date. Why do waywards believe they are good parents?! Trying to settle my nerves so I won't have an AO. I know she is going to bring up relationship talk, *sigh*. I hope she doesn't have the audacity and bring that POSOM in my presence. Was having a good day too. Will update post meeting.
I had a var and it went well IMO. She came over and we had small talk. She admitted that she was wrong and ask me for forgiveness. I said I can't forgive you without the full knowledge of the wrong doing. She claims there are some people helping her get her life together and right wrongs. I don't know these people but they are an extension of POSOM, I think. I told her that the bible and god accept repentance when you stop the sin your repenting and I can't forgive you right now and changed the subject. She was crying and I felt sorry for her. We talked about the 5k I ran and she told me she wasn't living with POSOM (lie). She is trying to get SS to come live with her.
I got to talk to him! I wanted to cry tears of joy but stayed cool. We talked about movies and she feels she won't get custody and accepts that she ruined the family I told her what is ruined can be rebuild if she would give up POSOM and she said it wasn't about him, yea right. When I heard that I shifted to another subject. She tried to use DS as a play. "We should go on a vacation with DS and SS." Then asked DS would be like mommy and daddy to be friends. He said no mom you shouldn't have a boyfriend just daddy as your husband.
That's my boy! So yea she has this fantasy that she and I will be friends after divorce for the kids sake. I told her I move forward not backward and we won't be friends. It's either the family or POSOM. We watched a movie with DS and she stated how she missed our bed and room. DS tried his best to make her comfortable so she wouldn't leave. Giving her napkins when she was crying asking her to take off her shoes and stay forever. She wanted to stay the night and I declined. I told her maybe next time, I have to work and don't trust her in the house without me.
All in all I did well held her hand and carressed her back cause it hurt. She will come by again Sunday she said. My anger subsided and I didn't have an AO so proud of myself. Going to bed now looking for some advice. I'm moving soon and she suggested I move to Florida so I'm closer I said Florida is dead to me. I'm moving because of my job and its 10 hours from her. I'm so mad and confused but heading to bed. God bless and any advice given I will greatly appreciate I know this is one big ramble.
TD, read your whole thread and you are doing great...however. I think you should consider writing letters to SS EVERYDAY. He is missing his family and can't see or speak to you. MIL may not give him letters, but also she may. Imagine how good he would feel everyday getting something from you and DS. Even if it is a daily journal of what you did and how special HE is to you. He is angry and may be feeling like he is not wanted. Let him know daily how much he means to you and it will lift his spirits daily. by writing sporadically you are telling him that you think of him sporadically.
I had a var and it went well IMO. She came over and we had small talk. She admitted that she was wrong and ask me for forgiveness. I said I can't forgive you without the full knowledge of the wrong doing. She claims there are some people helping her get her life together and right wrongs. I don't know these people but they are an extension of POSOM, I think. I told her that the bible and god accept repentance when you stop the sin your repenting and I can't forgive you right now and changed the subject. She was crying and I felt sorry for her. We talked about the 5k I ran and she told me she wasn't living with POSOM (lie). She is trying to get SS to come live with her.
I got to talk to him! I wanted to cry tears of joy but stayed cool. We talked about movies and she feels she won't get custody and accepts that she ruined the family I told her what is ruined can be rebuild if she would give up POSOM and she said it wasn't about him, yea right. When I heard that I shifted to another subject. She tried to use DS as a play. "We should go on a vacation with DS and SS." Then asked DS would be like mommy and daddy to be friends. He said no mom you shouldn't have a boyfriend just daddy as your husband.
That's my boy! So yea she has this fantasy that she and I will be friends after divorce for the kids sake. I told her I move forward not backward and we won't be friends. It's either the family or POSOM. We watched a movie with DS and she stated how she missed our bed and room. DS tried his best to make her comfortable so she wouldn't leave. Giving her napkins when she was crying asking her to take off her shoes and stay forever. She wanted to stay the night and I declined. I told her maybe next time, I have to work and don't trust her in the house without me.
All in all I did well held her hand and carressed her back cause it hurt. She will come by again Sunday she said. My anger subsided and I didn't have an AO so proud of myself. Going to bed now looking for some advice. I'm moving soon and she suggested I move to Florida so I'm closer I said Florida is dead to me. I'm moving because of my job and its 10 hours from her. I'm so mad and confused but heading to bed. God bless and any advice given I will greatly appreciate I know this is one big ramble.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
On a different thread, a MBer asked me if I was "psychic". No, I told her "I am a good guesser." Something 'pinged' in my head when you described WW's behaviors around you. Something is very wrong. WW is all but begging you to rescue her. My "GUESS" is that in some way, POSOM is abusive to her. She believes she has earned the abuse because, in her mind, she is a bad person.
She is sounding desperate to undo what she has done, but is stuck in her guilt knowing she "has made her bed and now has to lie in it".
Mind you, I am 100% guessing. But my instincts are quite strong, if what you wrote is accurate.
I'm only typing this so you can fine-tune your ears next time you see her. You might just flat out ask her, "Is anyone currently abusive to you?".
I could be 100% wrong. But, call it female intuition.
Pep, it's striking that you bring up intuition, because where you hear "abuse", I've been getting a little voice that's been telling me, in this case, "drug usage" for weeks now.
TD, keep an eye out for any/all indicators of changes in behavior/appearance/actions. Even increased tobacco usage would be significant.
Pep, it's striking that you bring up intuition, because where you hear "abuse", I've been getting a little voice that's been telling me, in this case, "drug usage" for weeks now.
TD, keep an eye out for any/all indicators of changes in behavior/appearance/actions. Even increased tobacco usage would be significant.
That popped up too. Which is why I asked about weight loss.
When I see her next I will bring up those issues. I'm sure its true, my gut says this guy is abusing her and she is accepting it because she feels she deserves it. POSOM has a history of getting girls hooked on drugs in order to control them. She has lost weight and doesn't look as good as she once did IMO. Like a midget at a urinal I will stay on my toes.
I remember one of my worst birthdays as a kid was one when my dad went fishing and was gone until evening. Everyone else was there, but the feeling that I wasn't important enough to my dad for him to be there broke my heart. Write SS letters everyday, just a quick note as you are getting ready for bed. I guarantee they will be like gold to your SS, especially since ww isn't showing interest in him.
Plenty of phone call small talks with WW. She doesn't like living in FL or PR. she is in town staying with a co worker and doesn't like that either. She supposed to come over Sunday and stay the night. Haven't asked her about abuse yet I think I will on Sunday. She claims she wants to see DS but we are watching a movie that isn't appropriate for him. Not expecting much.
Thanks pep. Just intercepted information from WW from POSOM. Apparently God is on her side from her POV. God wants her to ruin our family I know its fogbabble but the idiotic statement hurts nonetheless. Then she tells POSOM friend on social media to have POSOM call her. WTF why do you need to have POSOM friend to tell him to call you. Just sad, so sad and then she has a picture in our car that she drove to FL in with a carseat in it for POSOM daughter. What about your kids, silly WW. Kind of upset right now going to read and calm down. Shouldn't be mad I knew this type of thing is happening just hurts when you actually see it rather than visualize.
Haven't heard from him. I talked to him on Friday he's hurting and your idea about the letters is spot on. I will start that Monday. Out of town at the moment.
Thanks pep. Just intercepted information from WW from POSOM. Apparently God is on her side from her POV. God wants her to ruin our family I know its fogbabble but the idiotic statement hurts nonetheless. Then she tells POSOM friend on social media to have POSOM call her. WTF why do you need to have POSOM friend to tell him to call you. Just sad, so sad and then she has a picture in our car that she drove to FL in with a carseat in it for POSOM daughter. What about your kids, silly WW. Kind of upset right now going to read and calm down. Shouldn't be mad I knew this type of thing is happening just hurts when you actually see it rather than visualize.
Dang wayturds!!!
That's the unfortunate of watching a foggy wayward, they will do stupid stuff.
I love sending the DSS daily letters. He will love that.
Yes I do because she is seeing the situation for what it is. Not for what she was led to believe. I think its too late for that but I'm not psychic and I don't know what the future holds.
It may be a good idea to let her know that you will be sending them and that they are just to encourage SS and let him know what is going on in your lives. Otherwise she may get concerned as the letters start pouring in.
Tonite WW supposed to watch a movie with me at the house. She claims its so she can see DS but the movie we are going to watch is not a good one for DS to see. Using this as a LB$ opportunity, only ran 2 miles because I'm getting sick. Wish me luck everyone.
Tonite WW supposed to watch a movie with me at the house. She claims its so she can see DS but the movie we are going to watch is not a good one for DS to see. Using this as a LB$ opportunity, only ran 2 miles because I'm getting sick. Wish me luck everyone.
Well she is here and I'm doing pretty good so far. She left in her car to do somethings get some groceries for dinner. I'm contemplating on making a move on her. Like affectionate touching and stuff. She made it a point to say she is on her period. Should I try at least.
It may be a good idea to let her know that you will be sending them and that they are just to encourage SS and let him know what is going on in your lives. Otherwise she may get concerned as the letters start pouring in.
Catching up on this thread: the letters are a good idea, klove.
The day before she gave me some speech about forgiveness and was crying that she prays to God that I can forgive her. I said I can't forgive what I don't know so she should come clean. I also said God will forgive you if you stop your sin but while you still sin its irrevlant to ask for forgiveness. She got mad and it was a dead issue. Well last night was an eventful day. WW stayed the night at my request. We talked alot, I gave her a nice massage (DS helped as well). We talked about little things and not the relationship. She was pretty much eyeing DS and I daily routine. She was impressed and she showed it without wanting to. I cooked a simple but awesome dinner that wowed her. I never cooked in the past one of gripes.
We watched DS play video games, POSOM called her I felt my blood pressure boiled but practiced the anger management techniques I learned. She was short with him, from the conversation he wanted to know where she was and why she hasn't called him all day and was ignoring his calls. She lied an said she was with DS in his room when she was infact in our marital bed with me hugging all over her. I made sure I was loud so he knew I was there. She quickly said I love you to him (I felt instant nausea) and hung up.
Later, we watched a movie and she fell asleep some in the marital bed. Woke up and realized where she was and went downstairs to the living room to sleep in a separate bed. DS then reminded me we didn't say our prayers so we asked WW to pray with us. We said the usual but at the part where we prayed for mommy DS said we don't need to pray for mommy she is free from POSOM. We need to pray for SS. Score one for my little guy. She cried and hugged him and I hugged them both was a nice moment really sent it home for her, ya know.
I gave her a loving embrace and asked if anyone was hurting her. She said no "he" isn't hurting me. I said not just him anyone and she promise to call me if someone does. Something to the effect I will be the first person she calls. I gave her a kiss on the lips and forehead and She denied sleeping in the marital bed, while I did this I slipped the VAR under the couch. Surprisingly she didn't talk to POSOM at all.We woke up and took DS to school and she got ready for court. Court went well minus the physical pain I wanted to inflict on her a@@hole lawyer. She wanted to take DS with her for a couple of weeks. I said no she will not have my son around POSOM. He claimed why not? I said ask your client, Sir. He got angry and said I was punishing her because she doesn't want to be with me. I said thats not it this POSOM isn't a good person and I don't want him around my son. My lawyer said its a dead issue and the guy wouldn't let up.
He said its nothing wrong with her having a boyfriend then backtracked and said a male friend LOL. I said yes she is still married and its immoral and I'm done with that topic. So as it stands we have another court date but DS IS WITH ME! I am so happy and I think I handled it well. She on the way back to POSOM, I think the ignoring of calls and the short comments set a fire in affairland. I sent an email after court wishing her for a safe trip and thanking her for the time we spent together.
So as of right now I am sending her a Mother's Day card made by DS and me for Mother's day. I also sent SS a gift and a letter today. Told myself I will write everyday and send a small gift like a book or something once a week. Thoughts? Advice?! Heading to the park with DS now and thank you all who follow my thread and leave advice. I do take it to heart and God bless, oh if your reading this and your NEW, FOLLOW THE ADVICE!
Well done, TD. Your kindness to your WW was excellent (many LB deposits I think), and you handed her POS lawyer well too. What a buffoon.
Personally, I would have lost it has she said I love you to the OM in my presence. That would have been her ticket out the door. But you are a better Plan A'er than I was.
She is still in the fog, but I am detecting some sunlight getting through.
She called and talked to DS. He put her on speaker phone lol. My little guy is the man! She told him she made it to where she lives. He asked if she wanted to talk to daddy. She stuttered and acted mad and said no. Was classic! Then DS hung up.
Your son is one smart little dude! I agree that you have deposited many love units. Seems you are back in the game. There is definitely trouble in affair land. I would stir the pot even more by exposing to POSOM how much you enjoyed cuddling with your wife in bed!
I'm not wanting to sound critical here, because it sounds like you did excellent - but I'm working from memory here:
1) Her talking about forgiveness; this would have been a good moment to remark about "the open door" to return to the marriage.
"If you would end your affair and come home to recover this marriage, I would be willing to forgive you."
She will put the bit about God's forgiveness on you, and it appears to be lecturing. Avoid that next time, and stick to a return to the marriage, then drop it.
2) Her sitting in the marital home on the phone with her affair partner? Stick application; ask her to go outside if she is going to talk to POSOM, and let her know you will not tolerate her talking to him while in your marital home.
HHH your right. That was a good suggestion. After I told her about sinning I realized it, won't be doing that again. Your also dead on about talking to POSOM. Thanks for the reminders!
I also could of called her more while she was here. I don't like talking on the phone its one of my idiosyncrasies. She doesn't answer my calls normally. I'm going to let her breath and focus on myself and DS now. I did enough affair busting time to sit back and watch the mayhem. BP how are you doing thanks for your input. Hope all is well on your end.
Hey TD. I'm okay thanks for asking. I'm out of plan B still, but all signs are that WH is not recovery ready. Kids' birthdays are coming up next week. We are having a Dora themed birthday party next Saturday Hope you have lots of fun planned for you and DS. You always seem to anyways
Oh I don't know how I forgot to add this but while WW was here she kept saying she wanted DS and I to go on to a vacation as family with her and SS. After the divorce was final LOL. She even suggested going to FL (POSOM lives there). I gently and firmly reminded her after divorce we will not be friends and told her we can go to California because the state of FL is dead to me. Also, told her the immense pain brought on me because of her affair. That's when she went into her forgiveness talk. So if your reading this the vets ring true I don't know about WH but WWs feel like you can be friends. My main mission in life is to destroy that fantasy and follow through with it. She wants POSOM and me, she enjoys the cake eating when the divorce is final Plan B.
I gently and firmly reminded her after divorce we will not be friends...
And her warped sense of entitlement (with marital history in support) gently and firmly told her you are wrong.
WWs feel like you can be friends...She wants POSOM and me
See?
IF you are going to be able to prove to her what you tell us ("when the divorce is final, Plan B"), you will already be divorced, which will be too late for DS to have a complete family, and SS to ever again have a brother.
GO TO PLAN B NOW!!!! GIVE HER A TASTE OF LIFE WITHOUT TD!
NG, your right. I'm plan B ready now. Should be easy as she is another state. I have an IM she doesn't call as it is. Any template for a plan b letter? Is email an ok mode of transmission?
NG, your right. I'm plan B ready now. Should be easy as she is another state. I have an IM she doesn't call as it is. Any template for a plan b letter? Is email an ok mode of transmission?
TD, I received your email, and saw Brainy sent you the PBL examples. Read them, pick the one that sounds most like you, edit it as necessary, post the result here (with names redacted), let the PB wizards give you feedback, and send it out.
The only contact point between you should be my e-mail address, which you have. (I'll send you my first name via email, and should have WW's.)
Well done, TD. Your kindness to your WW was excellent (many LB deposits I think), and you handed her POS lawyer well too. What a buffoon.
Personally, I would have lost it has she said I love you to the OM in my presence. That would have been her ticket out the door. But you are a better Plan A'er than I was.
She is still in the fog, but I am detecting some sunlight getting through.
Keep up the good work.
"if you desire to continue an adulterous relationship and rub it in my face please leave"
Oh I don't know how I forgot to add this but while WW was here she kept saying she wanted DS and I to go on to a vacation as family with her and SS. After the divorce was final LOL. She even suggested going to FL (POSOM lives there). I gently and firmly reminded her after divorce we will not be friends and told her we can go to California because the state of FL is dead to me. Also, told her the immense pain brought on me because of her affair. That's when she went into her forgiveness talk. So if your reading this the vets ring true I don't know about WH but WWs feel like you can be friends. My main mission in life is to destroy that fantasy and follow through with it. She wants POSOM and me, she enjoys the cake eating when the divorce is final Plan B.
TQ, I recently went through this. I went to visit ex ww family with the kids (so cousins can play together) and ex ww was "sad" she wasn't invited on our family vacation. This is a wayward attitude and like your wife, mine wanted to "get along" and still be "good friends" after divorce. I'm sure your wife would love it if you went to Florida and became friends with posom, maybe even barbecue with him in his back yard. Some people do that. "for the kids" Sacrifice of ones values for the kids is a terrible learning example.
NG, your right. I'm plan B ready now. Should be easy as she is another state. I have an IM she doesn't call as it is. Any template for a plan b letter? Is email an ok mode of transmission?
I would mail it certified mail, signature required so you KNOW she receives it. Also the book recommends mailing a copy to the affair partner; I would also send a copy to her family so they can see there is a door open and hopefully encourage her to end the affair.
Also let your attorney know so she can't try to break plan B by coming to the house. This means removing yourself as the visitation supervisor. Then ask your attorney if you can trespass her from the home. If so, have the county sheriff serve a letter of trespass on her AND on the posom.
Block her phone number from your cell. If you are legally required to allow phone contact between the kid and her then have a dedicated "mommy phone".
You will also need to block her email address, Facebook etc.
However remember that Dr Harley twice told you to continue plan A
I'm at work now and will post a list of my Plan B plan of action. I know Dr. Harley said to Plan A but I'm in line with NG. She has shown zero remorse and maybe a dose of reality without me will make her realize her mistake. Plus, with her living with POSOM in FL it should be easy. I will talk with my attorney about the legal end tomorrow. I can't mail certified as I don't have her actual address. I have POSOM's I am sure she is living with him. I might send it to his residence, email, and also have my lawyer give it to her lawyer so he can relay it to her.
This wasn't an easy decision to make. I was thinking about this while she was here and I done a Plan B before and she came running back even though it was brief and with alot of breaks. Also, her forgiveness talk sent me over the edge as well as the comments her lawyer made during the meeting. I feel a lot better and I know I can do a Plan A longer but I feel Plan B will help me get to my endgame faster than Plan A. Especially since I have a better IM. Sending the PBL to POSOM should be the exact same copy? I know in SAA Jon did one and sent it to POSOM but it had a P.S. message for Greg on the bottom. Phone calls aren't court ordered and she doesn't speak to him via phone anyways.
I am 100% she thinks we can be friends and possibly friends with benefits after divorce. The purpose of my Plan B is to show her this is a fantasy that will never come to reality. I see her coming back on her own terms, like I am her second option. I don't want that I want her back knowing full wrong of the pain she caused our family not because its convient. I read the FR threads extensively thats how I know she was on bullstuff about her forgiveness speech. Too many I's and me's in it and not enough sympathy, empathy and remorse. Will post Plan B POA (plan of action) tonite.
Don't Plan B to "give her a taste" of anything. That is not what Plan B is for.
Only Plan B if you are ready to lose the marriage, because once you go to Plan B, as a man, your odds are essentially 0%, according to Dr. Harley. Men do not win their wives back through Plan B.
Only Plan B if the continuing damage to you is so great that you cannot take it. And be sure you've tried antidepressants, first.
Only Plan B if you are ready to lose the marriage, because once you go to Plan B, as a man, your odds are essentially 0%, according to Dr. Harley. Men do not win their wives back through Plan B.
Only Plan B if the continuing damage to you is so great that you cannot take it. And be sure you've tried antidepressants, first.
I've heard Dr H say this many times. Plan B for a man is essentially a step towards divorce. Men who want to fight for their marriages in response to an affair need to outlast the affair and out-love the OM. A man needs to show himself to be there waiting to pick up the pieces when the affair falls apart. She needs to see that you did not give up on her if she is ever to go back to you.
No it hasn't I still love my wife. So I guess I should stick it out. I misunderstood the concept of Plan B and wasn't aware that for men Plan A all the time is the best COA in order to save the marriage.
Then keep doing Plan A as long as you can. Maybe your Plan A needs some tweaking and some more "stick" with it's carrot to instill some reality into the situation.
Going into Plan B because you think it's a better way to manipulate the situation in your favor isn't smart. If it doesn't work...what do you do at that point?
It's your life and anything is possible but your best bet IMO is to stick to Dr. Harley's specific advice for you.
I think if you are fighting for your marriage, stay in plan A. The fact that she is in a different state works to your advantage. For one thing, you don't have to deal with her abuse. Your anger and hurt is minimized by the distance. In the meantime, the fantasy of her affair will likely crumble. You can make deposits from a distance while POSOM makes withdrawals.
Once the divorce is final then you may choose to go into Plan B. That's what I did. My FWW and I reconciled after the divorce.
Plan A keeps the door open wider. Plan B protects you and your LB.
You said before you were willing to wait till the divorce, so why not stick to that plan since she is far away anyway.
In the meantime, continue to do the great things you're doing with your son. Keep up the running routine and try and enjoy life.
Thanks for your kind words. We have another court date in June. It's a status hearing? I don't think I'm that far along and I'm doing what I can to slow it down. I am the one who initiated the divorce so its at my speed.
DBD aint that the truth. Klove, I sent a total of 5 letters to SS and have yet to receive a response. Today I am sending him some books (he loves to read because I read alot). I am sure the MIL is giving it to him. My WW mentioned something of him moving to live with her. Poor kid doesn't deserve to be in that immoral rathole with her. Once again I hope the MB adage of "don't trust anything that comes out of a waywards mouth" holds true in this instance. Markos thanks for the prayers.
DBD aint that the truth. Klove, I sent a total of 5 letters to SS and have yet to receive a response. Today I am sending him some books (he loves to read because I read alot). I am sure the MIL is giving it to him. My WW mentioned something of him moving to live with her. Poor kid doesn't deserve to be in that immoral rathole with her. Once again I hope the MB adage of "don't trust anything that comes out of a waywards mouth" holds true in this instance. Markos thanks for the prayers.
So happy you're remembering DSS in all of this. He is going to remember all of this.
nice job with SS, I think your letters to him will mean alot. Wil MIL let you talk to him on the phone too? If so a nightly phone call would mean alot too.
Well had an eventful weekend with DS. We went to see the new Marvel comics movie and on Mother's Day made a card to send to WW. Will send it tomorrow because I want DS with me so he can learn about mail and such. We also went to the local zoo. He was scared of the snakes lol! WW sent me an email on Mother's Day ordering me to teach DS about the day. Sad, we called her and DS spoke with her for 3 minutes. She told him that she was getting her nails done and that was her Mother's Day present.
I was on the phone briefly and wished her a Happy Mother's Day, even though she didn't deserve it. I guess POSOM gave her that as a gift because she such a wonderful mother (sarcasm). Sent some more letters to SS and have yet to see a reply the books get there tomorrow. All in all doing well and taking care of DS. Speaking of which I need to fold some friggin' laundry (bleh).
Sad, we called her and DS spoke with her for 3 minutes. She told him that she was getting her nails done and that was her Mother's Day present. I was on the phone briefly and wished her a Happy Mother's Day, even though she didn't deserve it. I guess POSOM gave her that as a gift because she such a wonderful mother (sarcasm).
I got it, pal - you are on record for staying in Plan A.
EXACTLY how do these sentiments express "No Expectations!" ?
I hope someday DS comes to see what you put yourself through for the barest chance of pulling WW back from her self-directed disaster.
Dude, my "suggestions" have nothing to do with Plan A. My "assessments" are to the effect that your situation (WW away, rutting with skeezy OM), is incredibly awkward, and your Plan A is tragically poor. (EDIT)
My only offering would be for you to mentally isolate your efforts from her responses, giving you a bulwark to maintain the vital "No Expectations" outlook. This will, as well, lessen your pain, if you can accept that Plan A is almost guaranteed to fail. Think of your Plan A as paying Federal Income Tax - nothing good will come of it; you just have to comply!
Specific initiatives to foster your Plan A, however, I will have to leave to those posters still actively recommending the tactic.
Only in America have we become so mentally neutered that when we OVERPAY for something, and get the difference back (without interest), do we consider this largess from the dictatorship.
I think I see your point NG. I forgot who said but I should apply more stick to my Plan A. I understand only certain people have the patience for Plan A. IMO I think I'm doing well.
You ARE doing well, TD. As I said, you can plan a from a distance and it's less taxing and your LB won't deplete as fast.
You mentioned that she may never leave her POSAP. Maybe, maybe not. I felt the same way in my situation. My FWW was engaged to be married to her POSOM. Til she found he was married. Being Muslim in a foreign country he could legally marry her, but she wouldn't do that. Plus she didn't want to be married to him after learning more about him. She came home giving up the life of a millionaire.
That process took a year-and-a-half. I plan A's most of time, withholding DR's and AO's. I also made a few deposits here and there. But I didn't see her much and that helped. By the time the divorce was finalized my LB was empty, and I was ready to move on. Though deeply saddened by the divorce, I was at peace that I had tried my best.
When my FWW came back into the picture and asked to come home, I was surprised and angry. I felt like I was being put through the whole thing again. But we worked it out. And now we are better than ever.
But the point is, you never know what is going to happen. She is in the fog and may never get out, but then again she may.
I don't think you need to add more "sticks" to your plan a. You've already done all that. Now its time to live your life, avoid DO's and AO's, and find time now and then to make desposits into her LB from a distance.
You can't wait forever, and at some point you may decide to accelerate the divorce. But as long you stick to your plan you are doing well and your future will be good.
Been really sick the past couple of days. Better now and upset that I missed my marathon because of the illness. DS graduated from preschool. They had a ceremony and everything for him. Was awesome! Took plenty of pictures. Plan on mailing SS some with the letter I send next week. DS really helped me out alot while I was sick. He knows how to get my medcine, fix daddy orange juice and microwave soup and he's only four! We had some real bonding time together while I was ill.
He started to say things like how we used to take care of mommy when she was sick and how he missed SS. No contact from SS sent a total of ten letters sending more next week. Had to get another car because mine went down. Nice looking car IMO, I picked the car and DS picked the color. Today we went out to eat and cleaned up the house because it deteriorated while I was sick. WW has pictures of herself on social media looking very skinny in high heels and a swimsuit. Dare I say she looks a prostitute?
She dropped alot of unnecessary weight, no doubt to impress POSOM he's kind of short and likes SKINNY women. My wife was average size now she looks disgusting. She called to speak with DS but he was sleep as was I. She left a message whispering saying she loves DS and sobbing. Seems like she is depressed like Sue was. Too bad her own fault. I'm doing well and constantly hit on by women, its flattering and I reject their advances.
Edit: thinking of responding to her call tomorrow after church. Sent POSOM a email about how he isn't just ruining her life but the lives of her children and how I know what type of person he is and its only a matter of time for her to see it too. He replied with come get her.
Was his response sarcastic or honest? I'm sorry to hear you were sick, but it sounds like DS is awesome. Too bad he has to do this without his brother beside him.
I think its a challenge. This is an ego driven loser. I will forward email to her and let it simmer.
Good idea. Let her see how fast he wants to "let her go" and won't even fight for her. Maybe even add a little note "I'm here for you and wouldn't discard you like POSOM so easily will"
It will put [censored] her delusion.
Sorry you were sick. Love what a little man your DS4 is. What a special little guy.
Also kudos on the letters to DSS. He will always remember them.
If she is skinny from drug use I would call It quits. If he turns his partners into addicts as his ex wife said, then that's more to handle than a normal recovery.
TD, Your WW misses her child and is in grave conflict over her decisions. Yet, she has changed her values and lifestyle for this POSOM. I'm sorry you have to witness this.
Ignore his cryptic reply. I would not communicate with him unless it is an effort to stir things up and drive a wedge between to the two of them. Appealing to the conscience of this scum bag will gain no traction.
Since your wife appears to be in desperate straights, I would continue to put out to her indirectly through kindness and caring that you are going to be her soft landing.
You are now 6 months deep into your ordeal, and you are doing very well. Remember that the average affair lasts between 9 months and 2 years. But because you have swung the stick of Plan A, the fairy tale ended a long time ago. Expect the fog to abate as the POSOM makes withdrawal after withdrawal. At this point you have made yourself a better person and she has descended into hell. At some point she may look up and see you reaching down for her with a loving hand ready to save her. Or she may decide to sink further into the abyss.
TD, Your WW misses her child and is in grave conflict over her decisions. Yet, she has changed her values and lifestyle for this POSOM. I'm sorry you have to witness this.
Ignore his cryptic reply. I would not communicate with him unless it is an effort to stir things up and drive a wedge between to the two of them. Appealing to the conscience of this scum bag will gain no traction.
Since your wife appears to be in desperate straights, I would continue to put out to her indirectly through kindness and caring that you are going to be her soft landing.
You are now 6 months deep into your ordeal, and you are doing very well. Remember that the average affair lasts between 9 months and 2 years. But because you have swung the stick of Plan A, the fairy tale ended a long time ago. Expect the fog to abate as the POSOM makes withdrawal after withdrawal. At this point you have made yourself a better person and she has descended into hell. At some point she may look up and see you reaching down for her with a loving hand ready to save her. Or she may decide to sink further into the abyss.
Can you have your WWs parents pick her up and take her home. While you might not want to do this perhaps it's more appropriate for her parents to do so.
I think you misunderstood my comments Gamma. POSOM emailed me saying come and get her as a reply to an email I sent him regarding their relationsh!t. DS spoke with WW and she refused to talk with me. If she wants me to go get her then I will. She embassy expressed zero intentions on returning.
Sent WW an email of pics from DS field trip that I chaperoned. Asked if she was ok and how SS was. The field trip was awesome we played zombie tag at the park. Was hilarious. Got some exciting things planned for DS and I this weekend. Might go fishing and we are going to wash our new car just to name a few. Life is good and doubt WW feels as good as I do.
Sent WW an email of pics from DS field trip that I chaperoned. Asked if she was ok and how SS was. The field trip was awesome we played zombie tag at the park. Was hilarious. Got some exciting things planned for DS and I this weekend. Might go fishing and we are going to wash our new car just to name a few. Life is good and doubt WW feels as good as I do.
Those field trips are so memorable.
New car, huh?
You're WW is going to regret she missed these times in your DS's life.
The text you sent your WW was perfect. Short and caring. That was a LB deposit.
I remember feeling like you are right now. In spite of the sadness of a fractured marriage, there is some hope for a happy future and a new start. And you know what? As brutal as it was seeing an impending divorce on the horizon, the time I spent with my girls (I had full custody) was precious. I can tell you that you will always have great memories of this time with your son.
No one can say what's going on with your wife, but I'll share this. A little over a year after my wife left the house, she woke up one night in a panic screaming, "What have I done? What have I done?" She cried herself to sleep.
I used white pages and got an address to where my WW might be staying. I am trying to mail her some Plan A things. Or should I just mail it to POSOM place?
I would include pictures of you and your son. Do you have any recent pictures where the two of you look really happy, and you are looking confident and handsome.
At this point, she not only needs to know that your door is still open--even if it is closing now--but that you are making the most out of your life without her. It would be advantageous for her to see you happy, healthy, confident, and vibrant. Pictures are great because they are natural unlike a situation where you run into her and your negative feelings rush over you and you have to fake it.
edit: Really want to send this to WW but won't change anything so I won't. I am sure she came across it as it is on Yahoo and when we were together we would read the articles and discuss ones that interest us.
Spoke with SS today via SIL. Was a very good talk he thanked me for the letters and gifts and wants to come home. WW also told him a TD is the bad guy version of the court date. Basically saying I don't want DS around SS and I hate him. He knows it isn't true because of the letters. Thanks for the idea klove. SIL/MIL wants me to come visit them but I'm not so sure about that. Turns out SIL got married and WW didn't even go to the wedding, just sad. I feel her family sees the truth and regretting their inactions. I asked if SS can come stay the summer and awaiting a response on Saturday.
SS claims WW doesn't trust me lol. I reminded him that I didn't secretly run off with POSOM and abandoned SS and DS in PR. He knows his mom is acting crazy and resents her for it. He feels he has no power because he's a kid. I assured him that isn't true and we talked a out video games and movies. Had me on the phone for about 2 hours lol. SIL/MIL said we can call anytime now and talk to him and said God bless me. Feels weird having my guard up around them but I don't fully trust them. I'm sure they are upset with WW but don't do anything about it.
That's fantastic that you were able to talk to DSS. I hope he is able to come home for the summer and possibly longer.
Keep the letters going especially of he isn't allowed to come home for the summer.
Does your WW have to give her permission?
I wouldn't ask for ww permission. I would deal with the mil and SIL directly. Ww has abandoned her husband and children As this continues, TQ, I see how similar your wife and my ex are by their actions and I was in your shoes but am starting to develop an idea that a woman and mother that chooses to abandon her family for the same of another man (and a drug addict at that) really isn't marriage and mother material anyway
TD, It's not a matter of trust with the in-laws. Its a matter of simply understanding that they are blood relatives to WW and their loyalties will be to her. But if they were truly loyal to her, they would have stood up for her marriage, but alas, most don't have that understanding.
In any event, the truth has emerged. She has abandoned her children. Just be a good step father to SS and they will have your respect and admiration. Depend on them for nothing, and you'll be fine. You can still be their friends, which is nice.
That's fantastic that you were able to talk to DSS. I hope he is able to come home for the summer and possibly longer.
Keep the letters going especially of he isn't allowed to come home for the summer.
Does your WW have to give her permission?
I wouldn't ask for ww permission. I would deal with the mil and SIL directly. Ww has abandoned her husband and children As this continues, TQ, I see how similar your wife and my ex are by their actions and I was in your shoes but am starting to develop an idea that a woman and mother that chooses to abandon her family for the same of another man (and a drug addict at that) really isn't marriage and mother material anyway
I'm not saying to ask WW for permission. I'm worried that MIL will say she has to ask WW for permission (like she did before with allowing DSS to talk on the phone).
MIL may not intentionally let WW know (or she may!) but it would be good to pre-empt that sort of thing somehow. I'm not sure how you'd do that though--he already knows that the separation is not on you, and that if contact stops it's not your fault, right?
I would take care how you talk about ww with ss. You could say that she is making poor decisions, but encourage ss to not disrespect Her. Ask him to pray for her. This may help him not be too bitter, but also if mil/sil or even ww talk to him, they will hear through him that you are not bad mouthing her.
I'm happy that the letters worked well, and that would be awesome for you and the kids if he were able to come and stay with you.I will be praying for that.
Thanks for the responses I don't bad mouth just said what she doing is wrong and he shouldn't think this is normal behavior. Husbands don't have girlfriends and wives don't have boyfriends. Also told him if he meets POSOM let me know and memorize my number if he is in trouble. That POSOM was arrested for inappropriately touching his daughter and he is a creep.
WW just called. She was asking for a W-2 she gave me. I still need W-2s from her in the conversation where she was angry with me. I told her I cannot give it to her because she was swearing. She claims to have emailed me the W-2 I need and I have yet to receive it. She also claims that the car I bought her and she ran away with was repoed. I believe this is a lie I have not been notified by the bank. She was mad and accusing me of pocketing the income tax money.
I told her through a letter from my lawyer to her lawyer that I will pay the car payments and pay off a credit card with the income tax and what's left over I will split and give her half. She got angrier, I think she is running out of money. She claims she need the w-2 for student aid aka getting a grant to use for something other than school. I believe POSOM was with her when she called that would explain the cursing show she put on. She sent me an email after she hung up angry saying she will requesting my new car in the divorce. She also claims I dont let her speak with DS(not true) DS doesnt wish to speak with her. She was fishing for arguments i stayed cool and responded with this:
WW please do not call me when you want to argue. I will be willing to listen and talk to you but I will not entertain insults and cursing. Save that for someone else. I didn't tell you to have an affair and move in with POSOM you did that. Good luck in your degree I know you can do it your a capable woman that's why I married you. DS and I miss you dearly and if you need anything I will help you anyway I can. However I will not help you break up this family for your affair. You can speak with Seifer anytime you want I am at work now. Don't know why you want my new car. You have one, take care.
I think your reply to your wife was good, and you did a great job not letting your emotions enter your replies. I also thought the following was very strong: " I will be willing to listen and talk to you but I will not entertain insults and cursing."
However, the parts where you moralize should have been left out. Even though what you say is true about her infidelity, all the sentences that use the word "affair" came across as weak in my opinion, and she will not receive it well. I think you could have simply said to her: WW, this is your doing, not mine, and I won't take responsibility for your choices. I would have left it at that. She knows how you feel about it, and, moreover, she knows it is wrong, but she doesn't care. If she ever snaps out of the fog she will care, but that will be later.
After that exchange, i don't think I would have ended it with, "Praying for you." Again, she needs to have a perception of you that you are strong. While you should be praying for her and she should know that, that was not the time to say it because, again, it sounds weak. Women admire strength and fortitude. There is a time to be caring and there is a time for tough love. She presented you with an opportunity to give tough love.
These waywards can be real monsters. But ultimately they are hurting themselves more than anyone else.
I liked the "Praying for you always" It is caring, and it shows strength to be praying for someone who hurts you. I don't see anything "weak" about it at all!
I liked the "Praying for you always" It is caring, and it shows strength to be praying for someone who hurts you. I don't see anything "weak" about it at all!
Everyone responds differently, I suppose, so there may be no right answer.
Prisca made me doubt my reply to TD, so with an open mind I asked my wife just now to read TD's post along with Prisca's and my reply to it. I was curious who she would agree with. My wife agreed with me, but that doesn't make Prisca wrong. She felt that the parts of the letter where TD professed his love or care for his WW made him look weak. She also shared with me that she thought that the early letters that I sent her made ME look weak too. I was surprised to hear that, since I spaced them out. But hindsight being 20/20 I agree with her.
What works and doesn't work for my wife may or may not work for others, but I do maintain that men should come across as strong and not desperate to their wayward mates.
There is a time to be caring and there is a time for tough love. She presented you with an opportunity to give tough love.
Plan A should always be caring. There is a carrot and a stick, and it's important for a husband to learn the finesse of including both. I think he did great.
There is a time to be caring and there is a time for tough love. She presented you with an opportunity to give tough love.
Plan A should always be caring. There is a carrot and a stick, and it's important for a husband to learn the finesse of including both. I think he did great.
Let me correct what I wrote: There is a time to be caring, and there is a time when caring should come in the form of tough love. Tough love IS caring, and it certainly worked in my case. Keep in mind that my view of tough love does not include disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts. Those must be restrained.
Nothing precludes prayer. One should pray often and hard for their spouse, wayward or not.
My wife honed in on the prayer part of TD's letter. She mentioned to me how she prayed for me consistently 5 times a day after she left. I prayed for her too. It was an essential part of our recovery it turns out.
Having said that, she still felt TD should not have put that in his letter. She felt it made him look weak.
In my opinion, and that of my FWW, the best chance TD has is showing his caring through his actions when he can, and I think he has done really well with this. But women are attracted to men who have self-respect and are strong. In my wife's case, she views the outward signs of affection AT THIS POINT as signs of weakness. I agree. If you are being thrown away like a piece of garbage, showing affection back makes one look weak.
In my wife's case, she views the outward signs of affection AT THIS POINT as signs of weakness. I agree. If you are being thrown away like a piece of garbage, showing affection back makes one look weak.
I do not believe Dr. Harley would tell him to avoid being affectionate to his WW because it will make him look "weak." I have yet to hear him say such a thing to a BH.
Thanks for the responses. I agree with everything said here I added the line as the carrot and the other recalling the affair as the stick. Just your right I should of worded it differently and I will use your paraphrasing in the future. Nothing much to report DS and I are enjoying each others company. Went shopping for summer clothes for him. I despise shopping but DS and I made it fun lol. After the email exchanges no word from WW. Knowing my wife like I do I'm sure she was crying when she sent the email about asking for my new car. I know it hurts her to see and hear how I'm doing well without her. She expects me to be miserable and nonfunctional and I'm quite the opposite. However, like BH pointed out there is a storm brewing in affair land and well misery loves company and that's what she attempted to do, make me miserable because her affair isn't all sugar and rainbows. God bless and I will keep everyone updated
Waywards hate it when everyone else is happy. It intrudes on their view of you pining away in (what do men cry in? Beer?) about how miserable you are, and your world's just not right without the wayward.
In other words, proceed as normal. Affair-land is crumbling fast. But you know that already.
Anyone have experience with child custody. I want full custody and have to do a report to my lawyer about what type of visitation to offer WW. Some advice would be extremely appreciated. Is there a way to make sure POSOM isn't around my son?
TD, When my wife left the house I acted fast to get full custody. She was so deep in the fog and wanted to get out that she agreed to my terms, which included full custody. I did not want my children anywhere near the other man, especially since he was living overseas in a foreign country. Given your WW's POSOM's criminal history, I know that you have serious concerns yourself.
I live in California and here is what my attorney shared with me:
My wife consented to me having full physical and legal custody of the children when she filed for divorce. She even checked both boxes for them in her paperwork. However, my attorney felt I was overreaching for full legal custody and recommended that I only ask for full physical custody in the marriage settlement agreement that she drafted for me, which my wife eventually signed.
My attorney told me that even full physical custody is very hard to attain or keep as judges these day usually favor split custody. Because my wife had abandoned the family I had an advantage, but she indicated that over time the judge would grant split custody if my WW became more stable. She made it clear to me that even if once the divorce was final, the custody issue could always be brought back to a judge.
I documented everything. My only communication with my WW was by text messages, and had a custody battle ensued in court those texts would have served me well because it was a great source of documentation. I would sometimes ask leading questions in my texts just to get her reply in ways that would strengthen my case for custody. I had a very good supply of evidence that made her look like an unfit parent. I backed these text messages up in a separate file.
I had a very good attorney, but I took initiative. My attorney was conservative and cautious, but I was assertive and I drove the process. Her legal assistant commented about how fast I turned in all the paperwork and kept the process moving. My wife did none of it.
Regarding visitation, if you are seeking full custody, I would be generous and liberal with visitation rights. Even though she has made this awful choice, if she wants to see her children the courts will let her, and more importantly, she is the mother of your son, and he needs her too. In the marriage settlement agreement that was drafted, my wife had the children every other weekend and we split holidays. Even though we had the agreement drafted, I would let my wife see the kids whenever she wanted since the other man was not around. Since your WW's other man is in another state, you can do the same thing when she visits here. However, I also put in the settlement agreement that she would not have visitation rights if she was out of the country, and she also forfeited legal questions while out of the country. I don't know if you can something similar in your interstate situation. That's a question for your attorney to answer.
I do not know if you can prevent her from seeing the kids with her POSOM around. But if you have evidence that the he is a child abuser and sex offender, I would think that comes into play. Set very demanding expectations with your lawyer. Some will take the path of least resistance. Hopefully you hired a pit bull. I pray that the judge supports you in keeping your son out of his reach.
I know that a lot of folks here drag out the divorce as part of the strategy of saving their marriage, but for me--and you--I had to do everything I could to protect the children from the other man. This meant being assertive and keeping the legal process moving.
You are fighting two battles: one to save the marriage, the other to protect your children and property. It's a war fought on two fronts.
WW just called wanting to speak with DS. She kept asking him does he love her. He seemed disinterested wanting to finish dinner with daddy. She started sobbing at the end of the call and she stated she is going to see him soon. Also, she asked if he talked with SS. It's so sad to hear her like this but its her own poor choices that led to this. Can't wait for this to be over and she decides to come home. This sucks.
WW just called wanting to speak with DS. She kept asking him does he love her. He seemed disinterested wanting to finish dinner with daddy. She started sobbing at the end of the call and she stated she is going to see him soon.
Well I think she plans on coming here this weekend for a mediation we have. I thought it would be handle with her via phone but guess not. Last time she was here she stayed the night. Is that appropriate for me to allow? Legally I'm protected and keep a VAR on me all times. Got some good Plan A in but was rebuffed when I tried to kiss her. So should I offer the night over or deny if its asked?
Well I think she plans on coming here this weekend for a mediation we have. I thought it would be handle with her via phone but guess not. Last time she was here she stayed the night. Is that appropriate for me to allow? Legally I'm protected and keep a VAR on me all times. Got some good Plan A in but was rebuffed when I tried to kiss her. So should I offer the night over or deny if its asked?
Hello?
Dude, H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STICKS yes!
PLAN.
Make the weekend an EVENT. Keep thinks light and civil. If she tries to take it down a negative path, state; "I would like this weekend to be nice" and drop her negativity.
Well had mediation today. WW didn't show, I'm happy and saddened by this. I Ed her to make sure she was ok. She answered and I asked her she said she was fine. She asked why am I calling to see if she was ok I just said I had a bad dream and was worried. She asked about DS however he was in daycare at the time. I guess her money is low and couldn't fly here for the mediation. I know POSOM out pressure on her to move there so I'm sure its not what she expected. Tomorrow I'm taking DS fishing for the first time. Should be fun! Sunday is church and park will call SS tomorrow as well.
What are the legal ramifications of her not showing up? Why didn't she call the court and you?
The flakiness and irresponsibility of waywards never ceases to astound.
So counter-intuitive is Plan A that sometimes I think it should be called Plan E, as in Enable.
What are the next steps in the process?
You are doing a very good job of taking care of your side of the fence. Nice to see you growing stronger day-by-day. I feel bad for your son, but he is lucky to have a great father.
Not sure. It was mediation. She called me and asked if she still had health insurance. I asked why she claims she needs a Pap smear seems kind of iffy. Either she is pregnant by this POSOM or he gave her a STD. I'm not sure and I'm not going to rack my brain over it. We have another court date for July three days after our anniversary (sigh). Yes I send him letters and he reads them. Man this stuff is nerve wrecking. So many unanswered questions...
Hey TD, just remember if it gets too much for you, you can go into plan B at any time. I think we will all breathe a sigh of collective relief when you do. Waywards are awful creatures, so unlike the human beings we know they once were.
True, Brain. I was just highlighting how difficult it is and how it seems to go against logic.
This is a difficult for TD. He's nine months in, and is in the middle of no man's land--that wide gulf between marriage and divorce. His wife is probably depleting the reserves in his LB. But he has been smart, and he has a plan.
True, Brain. I was just highlighting how difficult it is and how it seems to go against logic.
This is a difficult for TD. He's nine months in, and is in the middle of no man's land--that wide gulf between marriage and divorce. His wife is probably depleting the reserves in his LB. But he has been smart, and he has a plan.
Thanks everyone for your support. Honestly, believe I would be in a bad place now if it wasn't for the guidance of you guys. Anyways, DS and I had a good weekend. We went fishing at the local par Sunday with my Dad. Was fun didn't catch anything but I wanted DS to get familiar with the rod before we hit the river this summer. Sent WW an email with pics and video of our "fishing expedition". No reply but she read them.
WW called on Sunday after we had a cookout with my best friend and his children. She wanted to talk to DS and he didn't want to talk to her. Was heart breaking. He finally got on the phone and she told him it hurts her feelings when he rather play with his friends or video games instead of talking to her. DS told her to come home and she quickly spewed that she loved him and miss him. He reciprocated albeit reluctantly. Afterwards I told DS if he didn't want to talk to her he doesn't have to. He told me he's mad at her for being with POSOM and taking his brother away. Am I wrong for not forcing him to talk to her? I believe this is the stick.
TD, I really feel for your son. I went through a lot of the same stuff with my wayward mother - I was the one who discovered her affair during her separation from my father.
No, you did not do wrong. There is no obligation on you to force your son to talk to her. If she wants a good relationship with her son, it's her responsibility to start acting like a mother instead of a whore. If she wants her son to respect her, then she needs to earn the respect she deserves. A lot of betrayed parents here go nuts trying to help their scumbag wayward spouses retain respect in their children's eyes and a a relationship with them, and my take is that that is only a way to make yourself miserable and possibly destroy your children as well.
But enough about my thoughts - Dr. Harley's opinion is that children should be given the latitude to make their own decisions about how much of a relationship to have with a wayward parent. He has written letters to judges before advocating that children not be forced to see wayward parents if they do not desire to. For many of us, it is simply too traumatic.
I have had minimal contact with my wayward mother for twenty years. She is a part of my life I do not like to remember. Without her, I am happy! I receive a minimal birthday card from her most years, and it is always an emotional negative, and I wish she would stop sending them. (Somehow she has always tracked me down through many moves.)
Yea I read that on the boards, Markos. My mom was/is the same way. I won't pressure him to talk to her again. Even though he's four he knows right and wrong.
Mediator sent email to the judge stating how she missed the appointment and can of mediate any further with her living out of state. She replied with a weak excuse why she couldn't come. She put the date for July not June and cannot afford to fly here for the appointments wanted to do a teleconference. It was denied! I'm pissed now, she has money to fly POSOM around and live it up in hotels but no money to come see her sons or at least put up a fight for custody. On the flipside I look good which is what have been from the beginning. Sent her some email with a couple Internet memes for humor. Yup WW no all waywards are crappy parents. Whoever said that is so right. Well off for my 5k run at lunch.
Also spoke with SS mil gave me her cell to call him anytime! He still wants me to fight for our family. He said WW told him he will be living in FL with her. I let him know that she meant with POSOM and he reiterated that he wants to come home. He also says WW doesn't have a new car. No surprise there! He also spoke with his cousin/BFF and DS. It hurts that I can't do anything for him. He told me to tell the judge he doesn't want to live with WW.
WW sent me an email saying she loves DS and misses him. I told her we both (DS and I) feel the same about her and SS. Am I correct in thinking she misses me as well?
In all likelihood, yes. As was said before, affairland is crumbling, she is probably poor as a churchmouse...the list goes on. You look GOOD right now, but you know how stubborn waywards are...
TD, You may have a window here, and Karma is dead on about the stubbornness and pride of waywards.
My wife shared with me this week that there was a turning point in her affair where her feelings for me re-emerged. She was hoping that I would do something big to sweep her off her feet. That really surprised me because there were no outward signs at that time that she was interested in me or coming back.
No one can say if your WW is at that point, but be aware that it could happen. As you continue to toss more stones in the river building the bridge between her and you (to borrow from another forum member) that bridge might be reaching the water's surface. No way of knowing. All you can do is keep tossing in the stones.
Tranquil, I am SO hoping for a happy ending for your family. It sounds like she is facing her consequences and regrets.
I agree with klove, make sure she knows that door is open.
She knows. I think it was said that waywards are stubborn. My wife was stubborn to begin with so its gonna take alot for her to give in to reality. Thanks for your words, they give me hope when most should be hopeless. DS and I will have a awesome weekend and happy father's day to all the father's out there as well.
TD, You may have a window here, and Karma is dead on about the stubbornness and pride of waywards.
My wife shared with me this week that there was a turning point in her affair where her feelings for me re-emerged. She was hoping that I would do something big to sweep her off her feet. That really surprised me because there were no outward signs at that time that she was interested in me or coming back.
No one can say if your WW is at that point, but be aware that it could happen. As you continue to toss more stones in the river building the bridge between her and you (to borrow from another forum member) that bridge might be reaching the water's surface. No way of knowing. All you can do is keep tossing in the stones.
TQ is there a reason why you would love a woman that abandons her children and husband for a scumbag? What values does SHE have that you LOVE?
More like values she had and I know she still possess even though they aren't immediately present. I made a vow and I will fulfill it. Everyday I talk with SS and asks him if I should give up and he says know because he wants his family back as do I. DS feels the same way so I do it for them and for her because in the long run her affair won't last and I need to be there for her because no one else will.
However, after we divorce I'm not sure if I would take her back. I can say I will and when that moment comes I'm liable to change my mind. I won't know until I'm put in that position. Time and God will tell. Also, fighting for my marriage not only makes me a better person it alleviates all guilt and blame from me. When SS and DS grow they will KNOW that I did everything I could to help their mom and she won't be able to spin it like my mom tried to do to me when I was growing up.
Lastly, I love my wife. Plain and simple and I know that true love isn't the stuff you see in the movies or the puppy love waywards experience. Real love is when you love the perfections and imperfections of a person and accept them for who they are and not who they pretend to be. My wife and I had that but someone done the line we both didn't take time to cultivate it and help it grow. Whatever is lost can be regained and I strongly believe that my marriage will recover, I just have to stick with the plan. There are deal breakers for me of course. Either way I believe she is worth it and will continue my course.
More like values she had and I know she still possess even though they aren't immediately present. I made a vow and I will fulfill it. Everyday I talk with SS and asks him if I should give up and he says know because he wants his family back as do I. DS feels the same way so I do it for them and for her because in the long run her affair won't last and I need to be there for her because no one else will.
However, after we divorce I'm not sure if I would take her back. I can say I will and when that moment comes I'm liable to change my mind. I won't know until I'm put in that position. Time and God will tell. Also, fighting for my marriage not only makes me a better person it alleviates all guilt and blame from me. When SS and DS grow they will KNOW that I did everything I could to help their mom and she won't be able to spin it like my mom tried to do to me when I was growing up.
Lastly, I love my wife. Plain and simple and I know that true love isn't the stuff you see in the movies or the puppy love waywards experience. Real love is when you love the perfections and imperfections of a person and accept them for who they are and not who they pretend to be. My wife and I had that but someone done the line we both didn't take time to cultivate it and help it grow. Whatever is lost can be regained and I strongly believe that my marriage will recover, I just have to stick with the plan. There are deal breakers for me of course. Either way I believe she is worth it and will continue my course.
TD, Yours is a wise and insightful answer to Jedi's completely reasonable question.
Our timelines are almost exactly a year apart, and so last year at this time I was about 2 months away from the divorce finalizing, and my love bank was empty. The only thing that gave me any resolve to fight were my vows and my kids. After the divorce, I felt I was free to move in another direction. I was deeply saddened, angry, but relieved. I thought at that point that we were completely finished. And the truth was, at that point I did not want her back. I felt she was an awful person.
But through a long process of reconciliation I did take her back. And what I discovered was my wife was remorseful for what she had done. Her love for me that I thought had disappeared returned. It was always there, just buried under years of LB's and surrounded by a thick layer of affair fog. And today I can see that the old wife who was a very good person is back.
People do awful things when they are in the fog of an affair. Dr. Harley points out in his writings that he often has clients come into his office who are seen in society as righteous and good that have succumbed to adultery.
On a different note, wishing you, Jedi, and everyone here a very happy Father's Day. You guys are great Dads.
Had a good time today. DS made me a no e Father's Day gift at his day care and he gave it to me today! Spent the weekend with my dad and we BBQ, watched a movie and played catch with DS. SS called me and we talked so much about stuff. Made me tear up when he said this, "TD I have two dads, well my real dad is just my dad by blood, your my real dad happy Father's Day!" WW called and wanted to talk to DS. He was sleep at the time. She tried to get angry and assumed I am lying. She asked if we could call her back. I said sure, we called her back and she was sobbing a little telling DS she misses him and how she went to the video game store and thought of him. DS kept it short as usual and she asked if he could call her more and he said yes. Then she started to give him the third degree about what he did today and who he was with. Sad and weird she would call on Father's Day to talk to him. She wanted to talk to me but I get the feeling she thinks I don't want to speak to her. Next time she calls I will strike up a conversation and see what happens. She put on a social media site that she loves this man (POSOM). Made me want to laugh really! Fantasy land isn't that well and she's trying her best to prove everyone wrong.
Well I got a good of the ex fianc�. I talked to her a bit and she knows who my wife is. Was a very uncomfortable conversation. She told me she will call me back. I will keep you guys updated.
She told me that her relationship with POSOM fell apart around August the same time he started talking to my WW. I let her know I have proof of this and a lot more. She asked me how I got her number I didn't tell her how. More than likely I will call her tomorrow because it was her work number.
Since DS always seems to be unavailable when I call please have him call me today when he gets a chance. I'm always available so anytime is ok.
Me: You can call him anytime you want.
WW: I called yesterday and he was not available and Tbh 3/5 times I call, for one reason or another he can't come to phone so don't say I can call anytime.
WW: And you still didn't call last night, thanks very much. YOU'RE KEEPING MY SON AWAY FROM ME! Call it what you want but you are. Even worse you're using him as hostage so I get back with you but I won't give you the satisfaction.
ME: I'm sorry you feel that way, he's a child if he's occupied and playing that's all he thinks about. If it hurts you so much please think about what you are doing to cause him to ignore you. I am not keeping our son from you. Remember what you said when you were here? Also, I just want you to know I'm here for you and your welcome back into our marriage. I apologize for the things I did that may of lead you to this path. I want a loving, respectful and passionate marriage. I offer that to you in exchange you need to stop your affair and agree to join this marital program for our recovery.
I believe in God and I know he is with me in this. You were right the "old" marriage is dead. Burned to death by my actions, I take responsibility for my part in it, do you? I got caught up in other things that distracted me from the #1 Boricua in my life. That is why I apologize. You may ask yourself why I would want to try again after what you did/done. I take my vows seriously and I don't make the same mistakes.
This isn't an empty promise or some sweet words to make you change your mind. These are my feelings, WW you are the most important person in my life and I always honored you. I will not stand for the disrespect, resentment and anger you spew at me. I will not stand for your decisions that hurt me either.
Please understand that all I want is for you to be happy. Honestly, believe your best chance is with me call it arrogance or confidence but you know when I put my mind to something I do it. Close your eyes and imagine having the best relationship possible, showered with attention, passionate lovemaking, trips as a family, equal say in all aspects of life, being financially stable, owning a house. Now imagine that with TQ your husband and father of our children.
This is my dream, always has been. I feel that a man and woman should be interdependent not codependent. We each have different perspectives as woman and man. It's like our backs are to each other and we are looking at different horizons. You may see birds and eagles and I may see mountains. Doesn't mean what you see is wrong or vice versa. It takes both perspectives in equal consideration to make a marriage work. I want to be one with you mind, body and soul.
WW: I'm not interested. I'm ok where I am and I don't ever want to be with you again. Stop calling it a marriage, it never was. It was a joke. All I want is my son who I love very much.
ME: How was are union a joke? Is Seifer a joke? Is the bind I have with Xander a joke? Please be more specific about this. You say your ok where you are? Is that true? IIRC when we were together you were more than "ok". You were happy and it was real happiness because it didn't hurt anyone. He's our son, he looks just like me and you. I pray in time you will see the hurt your causing our family for your "ok" feeling.
WW: Get it you say red I say blue, I will NOT do what you want me to do. Also stop talking about what I did/done to you because I didn't do anything to you. I didn't cheat or anything like that. Yes I left you but what did you expect? What you thought I was going to sit down for 5 more years and take your bs?! No sir, I LOVE myself much more than that.
WW: WW, I am not keeping anyone from you. Let me explain it this way. Remember when SS dad would call for SS and he didn't want to talk to him? It's the same thing. I'm sorry you feel that way, I can't change how you feel and I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to fight with you but your dishonesty is hurtful. You left because you want to be with POSOM cause you love him you let someone into your heart whike married. why I don't know. However, as a woman you can only love one man. There isn't room for me in your heart but if you agree to no contact with him in time we can recover our love. What is lost can be regained through hardwork and honesty. That's my thought on that.
Well the ex-fiance/baby mother called me back and stated she doesn't want to get into the middle of it and wishes me best of luck. I told her if she wanted the information she could always contact me. I'm really tempted to just email/mail it to her anyways. Is this a good idea? I'm so torn on this issue.
TD, Your e-mail exchange with your WW brings back a lot of bad memories. Been there, done that. I feel really bad for you. I know that that e-mail exchange will stay with you for awhile. It was very hurtful and mean spirited. You don't deserve it. I admire your conviction and your goodness.
Try not to argue with her in the future because it only drives the wedge deeper if the arguments get long. Keep your replies to her attacks succinct, but do wield the stick of plan a. For example, when she accused you of alienating her from DS, your reply needed to be a succinct, "Your actions have alienated him from you." And leave it at that. Don't go into long expositions about infidelity.
You wrote some beautiful things in your response, but you educated her too much. Waywards won't be educated. It actually works against you to educate. It's a big LB. Only after the fog lifts can they be educated, and the fog is pea soup around this one.
I think its time to start thinking of Plan B. I'm not suggesting getting into it now, but preparing for the day it will come. And that day is not too far off I think.
So while you are still in Plan A, I would:
1. Make a pledge not to argue or educate your WW. 2. Continue to do the things you've been doing that make your son and you happy and healthy. 3. Let her see you as happy, handsome, loving, secure, and confident. These things can only be conveyed through countenance and actions, not so much words. Don't show her a hint of desperation. (It wasn't until I was divorced, thought it was 100% over, and started dating that my FWW came back.) 4. Seize opportunities to do kind things for her.
Finally, I would leave the former fiance alone. Respect her wishes and let her heal. She doesn't want the triggers and wants to get over this, it seems to me.
TD, Your e-mail exchange with your WW brings back a lot of bad memories. Been there, done that. I feel really bad for you. I know that that e-mail exchange will stay with you for awhile. It was very hurtful and mean spirited. You don't deserve it. I admire your conviction and your goodness.
Try not to argue with her in the future because it only drives the wedge deeper if the arguments get long. Keep your replies to her attacks succinct, but do wield the stick of plan a. For example, when she accused you of alienating her from DS, your reply needed to be a succinct, "Your actions have alienated him from you." And leave it at that. Don't go into long expositions about infidelity.
You wrote some beautiful things in your response, but you educated her too much. Waywards won't be educated. It actually works against you to educate. It's a big LB. Only after the fog lifts can they be educated, and the fog is pea soup around this one.
I think its time to start thinking of Plan B. I'm not suggesting getting into it now, but preparing for the day it will come. And that day is not too far off I think.
So while you are still in Plan A, I would:
1. Make a pledge not to argue or educate your WW. 2. Continue to do the things you've been doing that make your son and you happy and healthy. 3. Let her see you as happy, handsome, loving, secure, and confident. These things can only be conveyed through countenance and actions, not so much words. Don't show her a hint of desperation. (It wasn't until I was divorced, thought it was 100% over, and started dating that my FWW came back.) 4. Seize opportunities to do kind things for her.
Finally, I would leave the former fiance alone. Respect her wishes and let her heal. She doesn't want the triggers and wants to get over this, it seems to me.
Just I agree with everything you said but the last part. I will send the fianc� the information via email and mail. She can do with it what she wants. Here's why, my WW called to speak with DS. She called 3 times and I missed them because I was in the gym and left my phone in the car. I immediately called her back, she asked for DS I explained to her DS wasn't with me and I just got out of the gym and was going to get ice cream for my best friend's wife's birthday. She became irate accusing me of keeping him from her.
I followed your advice Just and told her that her actions caused him to not want to speak with her. I then asked her how she was doing which made her angrier and she stated why not ask POSOM fianc� and she hung up. 10 minutes later she called back her reason being she wanted me to tell my best friend's wife happy birthday. I said sure and asked why she inquired about POSOM fianc�. She told me that the fianc� called her right after I talked to her. I don't believe this one bit. Then I asked how she was.
She told me she's fine and then she wanted to be "honest" with me. I said sure, she proceeded to talk about how she was never in love with me and she married me because she got pregnant (the pregnancy was something we agreed to do together). How she knew I loved her and she saw I was a nice guy, with a good job and was stable. How she just got out of a abusive relationship. I messed up and tried to educate her AGAIN!
I told her I will fight for our family and that she compared my bad traits to POSOM good traits. Asked her if being in love with her husband and father of her children would be a logical move and she agreed. I explained that she is addicted to this POSOM and she needs to detox by way of NC and the feelings she had of me will resurface. I brought up fond memories of our relationship, like the first time she told me she loved me, DS birth, etc. She then said she never cheated on me. I told her why move away from our son amd keep SS in PR? She opened up to me and said she moved to FL and things weren't working out the way she thought they were. I told her I'm sorry to hear that. Then she wanted to get off the phone and I thanked her for being honest with me.
She then sent me an email ten minutes ago asking if DS was awake. I asked DS if he wanted to talk to WW and he said no. He will talk to her tomorrow. I sent that reply and left it at that. I have a habit of educating her and I NEED to break it because it is a DJ. I think I handled it well. Oh I told her I didn't love her and that I care for her alot. However, love can be regained with time spent together and O&H.
So here my take on things POSOM isn't with either woman he's floating between the both of them. Fianc� told POSOM about my call and he got angry with WW to create space so he can do damage control with fianc�. Cause he now has my WW waiting on him hand and foot. That's what lifted the fog a bit because WW needs to (in his eyes) get me under control and stop talking to his "main girl". That gave her time to reflect how she messed up her life for nothing. That's why she opened up to me. That's why I plan on sending the evidence despite her claims, POSOM is gaslighting both women and cake eating his [censored] off. Also, she has the right to know she can do what she will with the information.
Well, something's came to my mind that came up in the conversation. WW made it a point to keep saying she was single and that MIL told her she should work on the marriage with me because I am a nice guy and stable. That she will eventually fall back in love with me if she got rid of her distractions. I also told her that she is welcome back into the marriage and she UPSET! She said that things between us would be going good and then I would do something to mess it up. I asked for an example and she brought that up. Again, fogbabble IMO she was upset because I contacted the fianc� and that I avoid her argument baiting.
Edit: thought about the conversation today while I ran and had my best 5k time! 25 mins!
TD, I did not realize the the POSOM's fiance was still in a relationship with him. I was under that impression she was completely out of the picture and had moved on. Since that's not the case carry on with feeding her information. Good that you did.
TD, I did not realize the the POSOM's fiance was still in a relationship with him. I was under that impression she was completely out of the picture and had moved on. Since that's not the case carry on with feeding her information. Good that you did.
Understood Just, I think he's not committed to either woman he's just yo-yoing betweend the two of them. He's being gallant helping my WW while he helps himself to SF and gaslights the fianc� with the true relationship. Basically, he wants two women and no commitments, he's a playa looking for a cash cow to support him. My WW is working on her degree and he figured he can butter her up and at the same time hold on to the fianc� in case WW doesn't meet his expectations. WW knows this and it explains all the money spending and credit card debt she has now. Also, why she moved down there. On the other hand the fianc� or baby mama is oblivious if their affair. In other words they broke and now trying to recover but its a FR cause he is still "dating" my WW.
TD, have read quite abit of your story. Quite a few here have advised you to go to Plan B now, and I agree. Seems like the last several months the only reason she communicates with you is missing her son. She is simply using her privilege as a mother to bypass you for the purpose of the mother/son relationship. Basically TD, you are nothing more right now than a conduit to her son - nothing more, nothing less. To me this is abuse, so not understanding why you don't cut and get to B.
What I would be asking myself now is where do I want to be five years out - a fulfilling marriage or hoping. Your comment about her maybe having a FR with her lover is telling! Unfortunately, I think from what I read from your posts that they do love each other. Doubt she would have moved to be with him if she didn't. It tells that you're sitting back and tolerating this and no plan for YOUR future. Got news for ya - most men ( or most women for the matter) would not tolerate this.
I will say some prayers for you because you seem to be a very honest guy, and I promise to do that becaue sometimes prayer promise go unattended.
TD, have read quite abit of your story. Quite a few here have advised you to go to Plan B now, and I agree. Seems like the last several months the only reason she communicates with you is missing her son. She is simply using her privilege as a mother to bypass you for the purpose of the mother/son relationship. Basically TD, you are nothing more right now than a conduit to her son - nothing more, nothing less. To me this is abuse, so not understanding why you don't cut and get to B.
What I would be asking myself now is where do I want to be five years out - a fulfilling marriage or hoping. Your comment about her maybe having a FR with her lover is telling! Unfortunately, I think from what I read from your posts that they do love each other. Doubt she would have moved to be with him if she didn't. It tells that you're sitting back and tolerating this and no plan for YOUR future. Got news for ya - most men ( or most women for the matter) would not tolerate this.
I will say some prayers for you because you seem to be a very honest guy, and I promise to do that becaue sometimes prayer promise go unattended.
Tom
Tom,
TD was talking about a FR between the OM and the OM's GF/fiance because the OM is still cake eating between his GF/fiance (baby mama) and TD's WW, not between WW and OM.
TD, have read quite abit of your story. Quite a few here have advised you to go to Plan B now, and I agree. Seems like the last several months the only reason she communicates with you is missing her son. She is simply using her privilege as a mother to bypass you for the purpose of the mother/son relationship. Basically TD, you are nothing more right now than a conduit to her son - nothing more, nothing less. To me this is abuse, so not understanding why you don't cut and get to B.
What I would be asking myself now is where do I want to be five years out - a fulfilling marriage or hoping. Your comment about her maybe having a FR with her lover is telling! Unfortunately, I think from what I read from your posts that they do love each other. Doubt she would have moved to be with him if she didn't. It tells that you're sitting back and tolerating this and no plan for YOUR future. Got news for ya - most men ( or most women for the matter) would not tolerate this.
I will say some prayers for you because you seem to be a very honest guy, and I promise to do that becaue sometimes prayer promise go unattended.
Tom
Tom,
TD was talking about a FR between the OM and the OM's GF/fiance because the OM is still cake eating between his GF/fiance (baby mama) and TD's WW, not between WW and OM.
Also, Dr. Harley said Plan A. I appreciate your response and your perspective. I think she is doing what you said to justify contact with me to POSOM. When she is alone she talks to me about tv shows and other stuff. However, when she is around POSOM she is angry and starts arguments. It sounds so fake and as her husband I do know her and her mannerisms even though she has a warped reality.
Package hasn't been received yet but I sent the emails today. WW called wanting to speak with DS and he didn't want to talk to her she heard him say it this time. POSOM bought her flowers after their fight (assumed) when I contacted his fianc�/baby mother. Talk to SS everyday and we watch a show together while I have him on the phone like we used to. MIL is seeing the light! I miss SS so much!
No I told him mommy has a boyfriend and husbands shouldn't have girlfriends and vice versa. He asked me where is mom was and I told him she is with POSOM in FL. That she tried to take SS and DS from me so she can be with POSOM. Also, that POSOM went to jail for touching girls private parts. Basically the truth of the whole situation. I do not lie to my sons, I let them know what's going on in kid language.
Our anniversary is coming up soon and I was thinking of sending her a bound book of poetry I have written, with a card and maybe some flowers. Any thoughts on this? I spoke with her again and she stated that she wants me to stop fighting for our marriage and reiterated things in her new place weren't going as she planned. She also said she never loved me and she isn't talking to me about this because I am "her shoulder to cry on" she wants me to understand how she feels. Fogbabble I'm sure, I just listened while she tried to bait me into an argument.
On the exposure front, emails were sent to the fiance/baby mother and I mailed off some photos. I mailed them to her work address and had return receipt and all that on it as well. I got the receipt showing she received it but I haven't heard anything from her at all. Honestly, was expecting her to call me and be an ally. Guess it takes time (sigh).
DS and I had an AWESOME time at his birthday party. WW called and he talked to her for about a minute before he had to go because he was busy playing. She sounded hurt when he said that and I wanted to comfort her but that wouldn't be a good thing in Plan A. Guess that stick hurts like hell! Court coming up soon and I will update you all on the outcome. Hopefully, its for me to have full and legal custody.
Also, I think WW filed her taxes as single despite the agreement between us regarding the income tax. She posted on her social media account about going shopping with POSOM and buying him clothes. That hurt bad but didn't destroy my resolve. Oh, on our son's birthday there wasn't anything on her social media about it. I emailed her some photos and videos from his birthday party. I thanked her for making me a father this day and wish she was here with us celebrating that fact.
TD, If it were me, I would not send her an anniversary gift. She asked you to stop fighting for the marriage, so sending an anniversary gift would be considered by her disrespectful.
I'm not saying don't fight for your marriage, but I think sending her a gift would be the wrong tact. The most I would do is text her something like, "Thinking of you and feeling sad on our anniversary." But if it were me, I wouldn't even do that. Last year, I let the day go without saying a word to my WW.
Send her gifts on her birthday, comfort items when she is sick, or random things at random moments if you think it will help. But in light of recent conversations I would forgo giving an anniversary gift.
In my opinion, I don't think your WW is going to respond to gifts or any kind of overtures at this point. She is still deeply in love with the POSOM it seems. (What a fool.) And until she reaches a breaking point with him, I'm not sure your gifts and affection will have an impact. There will come a day when the novelty of her affair fades and you may be able to penetrate her heart again. At that point you should go hog wild with gifts. But for now, if it were me, I would just concentrate on being a good father, stay thoughtful and kind with WW, seize opportunities to be supportive, but do not push anything and do not make romantic overtures.
She knows the door is open. What you have to concentrate on is being the most attractive option for her.
Ok, I just asked my FWW about this. She agreed with my take. She said that your WW won't read the poetry. Sending it will make you look desperate. She says pull back for now. There will come a time when you can woo her, but that time is not here yet.
BH: Great minds think alike, yes I am. Just: I agree with you and your FWW. I will treat it just like any other day. Might go run 10-12 miles so I am too tired to think about it.
Can you plan something really fun and distracting on your anniversary date? Anything to take your mind off it will help you get through that day much easier.
Yea already done. Question for any FWW or BHs out there, when your WW was in the midst of the affair did they lose alot of weight? My WW wasn't a fat girl but looking at her pics she is disgustingly skinny. She was usually 130-135 but now looks to be 115.
Yea already done. Question for any FWW or BHs out there, when your WW was in the midst of the affair did they lose alot of weight? My WW wasn't a fat girl but looking at her pics she is disgustingly skinny. She was usually 130-135 but now looks to be 115.
This happened to me. I went down from about 132 to 117. I think it's common to lose weight during an affair. For me, I just couldn't eat. The pressure and the stress of trying to live two different lives at the same time can be quite tremendous.
I think its a combo of both writer1 and BH. Feeling so depressed right now, going to head to the gym and blow off some steam. Was invited to a birthday party but I declined. Partying up isn't going to fox my situation.
Well our 4th went good. Fianc�/baby mama doesn't want to help but she has the information now. WW and I have court on Tuesday not sure if she is going to show or of she is even in town. She called a couple of times and DS didn't want to talk to her unless she is at home. Hurt her feelings but somehow I know she will twist this around and make it my fault. I messed up some, when she does call I should try to engage her in a conversation. Still speak with SS on the regular and he really enjoys talking to me. When he calls its near bed time so we say a prayer on the phone together almost every night. Please pray for a favorable outcome for me in this court date and my family as well. God bless.
Well our 4th went good. Fianc�/baby mama doesn't want to help but she has the information now. WW and I have court on Tuesday not sure if she is going to show or of she is even in town. She called a couple of times and DS didn't want to talk to her unless she is at home. Hurt her feelings but somehow I know she will twist this around and make it my fault. I messed up some, when she does call I should try to engage her in a conversation. Still speak with SS on the regular and he really enjoys talking to me. When he calls its near bed time so we say a prayer on the phone together almost every night. Please pray for a favorable outcome for me in this court date and my family as well. God bless.
Who was the judge that granted you the custody thing? Would it be the same judge you will have or would it be different? (I say this because if it's possible that it's the same judge, he/she may have a great understanding of how your WW's been acting and thus why DS wouldn't want to talk to her)
Yea already done. Question for any FWW or BHs out there, when your WW was in the midst of the affair did they lose alot of weight? My WW wasn't a fat girl but looking at her pics she is disgustingly skinny. She was usually 130-135 but now looks to be 115.
Well what did OM ex wife tell you? She said he turns his women into drug addicts. That will cause weight loss
I hope so, well went to a birthday party and had a blast with DS. Still sad but the day is almost over. This is the worst anniversary ever, I miss my wife and family. Didn't acknowledge it to her didn't even call her this feels so real unnatural.
First going clean up the house its a mess been uber lazy. Started a new workout and its kicking my butt! Going to take DS to the movies and after that going to play at the park.
First going clean up the house its a mess been uber lazy. Started a new workout and its kicking my butt! Going to take DS to the movies and after that going to play at the park.
Was fun and thanks for the idea DS enjoyed it. My lawyer is getting a new judge because court date was changed. I'm guessing WS doesn't have the money to come here for court and had her lawyer make up an excuse. Kind of upset about that IMO she shouldn't have any excuses to make the court dates no one told her to move out of state. Correction POSOM did. Oh well I was looking forward to a Plan A thing with her. Maybe she's stalling because she doesn't want a divorce? Who knows I know one thing though I'm feeling better and looking good!
Yea already done. Question for any FWW or BHs out there, when your WW was in the midst of the affair did they lose alot of weight? My WW wasn't a fat girl but looking at her pics she is disgustingly skinny. She was usually 130-135 but now looks to be 115.
My WW is tiny to begin with, but she's lost some weight during her affair. She has claimed many times to have hit rock bottom.
Where does that leave you if she doesn't show up? Can court proceed without her?
My lawyer is requesting a new judge because he feels this one isn't being fair and impartial. In happier news getting a pedicure tomorrow for my aching feet. My toenails look hideous and I want to wear some sandals. JK I hear you snickering as well, I'm the manliest of men but you have to groom lol! Also, DS and I enjoyed the movie thanks for the idea BH. It was really good truthfully I think I enjoyed more than him. MIL has said she wishes WW would come home and repair our marriage and vehmentely disagrees with her daughter's choices. Seems my WW lied about abuse and MIL got played in taking my children from me.
I knew it but feels better to here it spoken. Guess the lies and the fog that was surrounding said infidelity are being lifted at least on her side of the family. To be clear I still do not trust them, words are just words. Other than that enjoying my life and started an exercise I do once a week. Every Sunday after church I write down three things I am grateful to God for. If your in a painful place like me this might help. I know it works wonders with me, DS and I do it together.
Well, I spoke with SS the other day and he had bad news. WW is moving him to FL with her. He's very bummed out and sad about it. So that means POSOM will have daily interaction with my SS and I can't do anything about it. Needless to say I am highly upset. I told SS to let his mother know he doesn't want to live there with her and him. He said he told her before (when all this had started before she moved him to MIL's place.) I said you need to let your WW know because now. Because when her affair fails and the aftermath happens and I know it will, he can honestly say he told her how she felt and she disregarded his feelings for her selfish and immoral desires.
One thing I learned about all this and many folks here and around the world will agree. Waywards try to rationalize their infidelity to escape the guilt they earn from hurting the ones who love them most. By him telling her that she will have a hard time trying to justify and flip this around on SS. I doubt she would use common sense and not blame her own son but we all know waywards are as bright as a dark room.
In better news I had a 12 mile run and feel great, even though the run was prompted to get over the feelings of being helpless to help SS. DS and I washed the car this weekend and went to the park. We played zombie tag lol! Don't ask me how these kids come up with these games, when I was a boy it was freeze tag. Now zombies are taking over lol. Meet with my lawyer soon and will get a better picture on what to expect. Honestly, I don't see her coming back at all. Her pride weighs more than her honor and respect. I sent an email that was answered on yesterday's show. BH could you do me a solid and post it. The date of the show was July 15th. Thanks! God Bless! Oh, my church said a prayer for WW and our family at my request. Love my church!
Meet with my lawyer soon and will get a better picture on what to expect. Honestly, I don't see her coming back at all. Her pride weighs more than her honor and respect.
Hey TD. Glad you are still doing well. I just wanted to let you know that I am still checking in on your posts and wishing you the very best! Believe me, it does get better.
Meet with my lawyer soon and will get a better picture on what to expect. Honestly, I don't see her coming back at all. Her pride weighs more than her honor and respect.
Hey TD. Glad you are still doing well. I just wanted to let you know that I am still checking in on your posts and wishing you the very best! Believe me, it does get better.
How are you doing, buddy? I have good and bad days today isn't so bad. Sent WW a photo album of me and DS and also a homemade card made by the both of us.
Meet with my lawyer soon and will get a better picture on what to expect. Honestly, I don't see her coming back at all. Her pride weighs more than her honor and respect.
Hey TD. Glad you are still doing well. I just wanted to let you know that I am still checking in on your posts and wishing you the very best! Believe me, it does get better.
What the heck....
Give us an update Florida Guy. What happened? You divorced? How's your mom?
Well haven't heard from SS he's angry and scared about WW actions. Been a bad week for me mentally. Sent WW package to POSOM address. Probably wont get a response. Gained some weight need to get back into my routine. Depression is kicking in a little a think. Must be the rollercoaster. SS understands this isn't my fault and we had a good talk. He knows his mom is acting in her own interests and not his. I told him to call me or the police when not if POSOM gets violent. I know the relationship is doom but I like plans and deadlines so this is really hard to do.
I think you are nearing Plan B, TD. It will help you. Since your WW has completely rejected your overtures, I don't think sending her packages will help. I would make this the last one. If you go dark, she will remember the ones you sent her, should she have a change of heart. But by going dark, you become elusive, and that works in your favor more than being available. That is NOT the point of Plan B, but it is a fortuitous byproduct of it sometimes.
And if she ever does have a change of heart, she will have a lot of work to do to make you feel safe and to rebuild your love bank. I'd imagine its empty at this point, right?
Hi TD thanks for the updates, I'm sorry SS is going through this. With any luck you can push through and fight for full custody for him also. You know I'm on the plan B train also... I really hope she snaps out of it soon. Meanwhile continue to take care of yourself and DS. You've been doing an excellent job so far.
Thanks BH didn't get to hear it the first time. Feeling better now I was feeling down cause I gained weight and my SS maybe living with WW and POSOM. Weighed myself and lost 3lbs. Been running like a mad man. The answer renewed my faith as well, I just need to stay the course.
I called my WW last week to let her know about DS surgery. She was very defensive and standoffish. She insisted she doesn't love me and I am going through this trouble because I was feeling guilty. I told her I am going through this for our family and our marriage. She insulted me and asked to speak with DS. It was rather short, she promised to come see him on the day of his surgery and the reason she hasn't been calling is because she is working all the time. Please keep in mind she didn't have to work when we were together I brought enough money in where it wasn't necessary. DS called her out on it and she simply said she loves and miss him and he said the same and wants her home away from POSOM.
Couple of days prior I spoke with SS, he's still with his grandmother, about the situation. He wanted to know why his mother was doing this because I am a great dad even though I'm not his real dad. I told him that his mom is very mad at me because I told everyone about her affair with POSOM. He said all I did was say the truth like his mother and I taught him. I said I know and he proceeded to say if his mom has kids with POSOM they aren't his brother's and sisters, how he wish he could run away and live with me and how the law is sometimes unfair.
I told him not to runaway and be strong for his mother because right now she is mentally weak and only cares about POSOM and herself. If he needed anything from me to give me a call and I will do my best to help him out. His grandmother asked him what we talk about on the phone and he told her the truth. She must've relayed the information to WW and he wasn't allowed to call me anymore. Couple of days ago his grandmother let him call because he was badgering her and he told me this week his mom is flying him to POSOM and her place.
I reiterated what I told him and we said goodbye. I was bummed out for a couple days, forced my self to work out on this new routine and got better. WW received the package via the mail after our conversation but I heard nothing from her in regards to it. Grandma likes my facebook posts about the situation. Other than that moving forward with DS. He's attending school soon and I'm just focusing on the things I did wrong in the relationship. I pretty much handled all the LBs I know was guilty of as well as some IBs I put a finger on whenever we reconcile. Plan on sending WW pictures of myself and DS when he starts his 1st day of school. Other than that I don't know of any good Plan A ideas from afar that don't make me look desperate.
I'm very sorry to hear about your step son. The feelings that he expresses to you are heart breaking. I am also sorry that your own son is without a mother at this time.
When you e-mailed Dr. Harley you did not share with them her reactions to your communications, though maybe it doesn't matter. I would think that your best Plan A strategy would be to 1) avoid love busters, and this includes educating your WW, 2) being warm, pleasant, and upbeat during any interactions and not letting her bait you into arguments or even talking about the relationship, 3) being kind and respectful to her, and 4) being strong and confident, because those are desirable traits for a lot of women. Based on the hostility and rejection you have been getting from her these past few months, I would definitely tone down the gifts, but continue to maintain contact and give her friendly updates. The picture on the first day of school is a good idea.
I think it is going to be harder and harder to Plan A her when she is so hostile towards you. As I said before, your love bank must be close to empty. If it isn't, then you are superman. At least her distance enables you to Plan A without being triggered everyday.
WW is feeling guilty. Got an email asking if its ok for DS and DSS to chat over Skype sometime. I replied no DSS can call like he's been doing the whole time and also ask if she was ok due to recent news about shootings where she lived. No reply and Just I agree with your assessment. BH I blew it, I should of asked during the reply. I was too busy trying to respond without a LBing. I mean really?! Skype?! DSS should be home as should she. This wayward fantasy crap where me and her love this happy life while she has an affair is getting quite old.
TD it must have been heartbreaking listening to DSS express his feelings and knowing he has contact with WW & OM. It's wonderful you have maintained your relationship with DSS and he knows you love, care and want him in your life.
I wouldn't worry to much about blowing it, I don't know if it would have made a difference. You have done so well fighting for your M and both your children, remember that.
DS and I are doing well he started kindergarten and had his tonsils removed. WW and I talk once a day daily. She calls under the guise of wanting to talk to DS but he can't really talk because of his surgery. She is jubilant and no ok get belligerent with me. It's kind of weird, SS his with her and I have t talked to him her but she claims he's fine. I use the conversations to tell her all the fun things DS and I are doing. How we went shopping, school field trips, going to the park and etc.
She responds with some questions (not negative ones mind you) and laughs. She called and I returned her call a couple of hours later. As DS and I were shopping and went out to eat. Again I remind you be refuses to talk cause his throat hurts or maybe because he's mad about his mother's actions or both. It was late when I returned her call because of the time zone difference. She asked me what DS and I did and as I'm telling I hear a man's voice in the background asking her who it is and what's she is doing. He had a condescending to it.
Like he was talking to his teenage daughter. Am I wrong to laugh in my mind she. I heard it?! She replies to POSOM that its her son. He claims its late and she tells me she has to go, I tried talking to her more but she gets frantic and ends the conversation. From this I gather when she calls to talk to "DS" he's at work or not around hence the small talk with me. However, when he's around she doesn't call me because its against the rules. Any feed back on this? I feel I'm making small deposits with these conversations and that the consequences of the affair AKA the control and abuse this guy is known for are coming to light. Thanks for your support everyone and God bless!
You are handling the phone calls really well. It's good that you are not discussing the relationship and focusing on your son. Are you keeping confident and upbeat on the phone? That will be a nice contrast to the POSM.
I have a question. Should I cancel health insurance on SS and WW? By keeping it I feel I'm propping up the affair. Please keep in mind WW had a cancer scare not sure if it was resolved or not.
Well, from way out here, it is apparent that your Plan A has a lot more appearance to it than substance. If Plan A were truly your guiding light, you would never have been impelled to have asked the question, TD. Your (wayward) wife's happiness, well-being, and comfort would dominate your thinking. Cutting off her health benefits could not be Plan A
It would, however, be entirely consistent with Plan NG, but such a Plan is NOT admissible to the MB community!
Like he was talking to his teenage daughter. Am I wrong to laugh in my mind she. I heard it?! She replies to POSOM that its her son. He claims its late and she tells me she has to go, I tried talking to her more but she gets frantic and ends the conversation. From this I gather when she calls to talk to "DS" he's at work or not around hence the small talk with me. However, when he's around she doesn't call me because its against the rules. Any feed back on this? I feel I'm making small deposits with these conversations and that the consequences of the affair AKA the control and abuse this guy is known for are coming to light. Thanks for your support everyone and God bless!
Plan A needs the carrot and the stick.
Drop the insurance. OM is banging WW every night so let OM provide the insurance.
The Road, I agree with your response but I also have NG's response that's the complete opposite. Kinda torn on the issue and will mull it over leaning towards cutting it off. Today DS5 started school sent WW an email about it and offered a invitation to play a video game we used to play together during happier times. Also sent WW school pictures of DS5's first day of school and a present for SS. MIL sent me a email saying she praying for a good outcome for my marriage but she is taking the "WW is making a mistake but she's and adult" stance. Not sure on how much help that is. Today plan on cleaning up with DS and cooking some dinner with him. Staying strong and its FOOTBALL SEASON!
Like he was talking to his teenage daughter. Am I wrong to laugh in my mind she. I heard it?! She replies to POSOM that its her son. He claims its late and she tells me she has to go, I tried talking to her more but she gets frantic and ends the conversation. From this I gather when she calls to talk to "DS" he's at work or not around hence the small talk with me. However, when he's around she doesn't call me because its against the rules. Any feed back on this? I feel I'm making small deposits with these conversations and that the consequences of the affair AKA the control and abuse this guy is known for are coming to light. Thanks for your support everyone and God bless!
Plan A needs the carrot and the stick.
Drop the insurance. OM is banging WW every night so let OM provide the insurance.
Dropping the insurance is not plan A. Taking an action that feel like revenge is not to plan A. The only exception is exposure, which might feel like revenge to a BS, although it is done for completely different reasons.
Having had some time to mull on this issue (Face it, NG, you have NO life!), it occurs to me that Plan A EN satisfaction is only effective if it is realized by the WW. In other words, she probably has zero awareness of your ongoing consideration in this matter.
Sooooooo, somehow you have to make certain she knows what you are doing for her and DSS. Your choice, at the next phone call:
- tell her that you are planning to continue her coverage, because you expect her to return, - tell her you are struggling to retain her coverage, because "they" are questioning her residence out of state. This is likely all the more tenuous since DSS is technically NOT your dependent.
Of course, you should also discretely investigate what the coverage conditions actually are for her and (especially) him. Covering them is definitely Plan A; committing fraud and losing your own coverage would not be.
The purpose of Plan A is to provide encouragement to an unfaithful spouse that the marriage is a far better choice than the affair. It's reaching out a hand of love, letting the unfaithful spouse know that the betrayed spouse will be an enthusiastic and respectful partner in the process of marital recovery. But Plan A also involves two caveats that the unfaithful spouse will not like: 1) Exposure of the affair to everyone and 2) that there can be absolutely no contact with the other person for the remainder of life. But aside from these two, there should be no negatives: No disrespect, no angry outbursts.
Plan A does not necessarily require the meeting of emotional needs, such as sexual fulfillment. But it would express a sincere willingness to meet unmet emotional needs while on the path to marital recovery.
As NG mentioned, Plan A would not involve cutting your wife from your health insurance policy. And neither would plan B, the only other reasonable strategy for marital recovery after an affair. She should remain on your policy until you are divorced and the court has allowed her to be removed.
Plan B is to cut off all contact with your wife until she is willing to follow the plan that would lead to marital recovery. She must agree to end all contact with the other man, follow extraordinary precautions to prevent such contact or another affair, agree to transparency in marriage (the POJA and PORH), and follow a program of recovery that eliminates Love Busters and teaches each spouse to meet each other's most important emotional needs.
The primary purpose of Plan B is to preserve what remains of love units in your wife's Love Bank account. By being completely separated with no contact you will still have some feelings for her by the time her affair dies a natural death and she wants to restore her marriage with you. If you remain in Plan A too long, her account will be so deep in the red that living with her would be the last thing you would ever want. Plan B also helps keep a betrayed spouse reasonably healthy while this tragedy is unfolding. Staying in Plan A too long can have catastrophic effects on a betrayed spouse's health. That's especially true for women.
Thanks for your response Dr. Harley. I know what I must do now. I emailed WW about this topic and made it known to her as well. She responded on how's she depressed and misses DS. I replied thanking her for giving me news regarding SS schooling. He is doing fine according to her but misses his brother.
Yea I emailed him this question. I think its a good topic as people get confused about it or at least I did. I know I was told to cancel car insurance and thought this might fall in the same realm.
Yea I emailed him this question. I think its a good topic as people get confused about it or at least I did. I know I was told to cancel car insurance and thought this might fall in the same realm.
I do not see the difference. Told not to pay car insurance. Told to pay health insurance. Does not make sense to me. Though better to follow Dr H.
Got a text from MIL wishing the best for my son and God blessing him. I replied with the fact I have the same love for my family WW, SS and DS. She then replied she hopes that DS grows up to be a good man and I countered with he will because he's being raised by one who in turn was raised by one. MIL then replied I will always be welcome in her home. I replied thanks but when the divorce is final I want nothing to so with anyone who helped my WW ruin our family and her life. Also, that I will love SS because he's my eldest son and when he's old enough to come and see me without interference from WW I wil welcome him. Also asked will POSOM be welcome in her home and was WW's wayward father welcome in her (MIL mother) mother's home. Also that she has the power to voice her pain and displeasure of WW's actions but idly sits by and does nothing. Sorry for the long winded post just had to vent. WAYWARDS AND THEIR ENABLERS ARE SICK IN THE HEAD.
I agree. "Blood is thicker than water"; I saw it with my ex wifes affair. Family refused to publicly condemn her affair. Told me vague things like "hope things work out " etc.
This woman helped kidnap your son. I thought she couldn't speak english anyways, so how is she texting you? I wouldn't trust her with any information
Dude, I'll say it again, YOUR PURPORTED PLAN A NEEDS SERIOUS WORK!
Exactly which parts of your (well deserved) diatribe at MIL do you think will NOT get back to WW (and which of her ENs would you be thereby satisfying)?
Think those things all you want. Act on the guidance that your thoughts provide. But remember the duck: Look placid from the top, and do all your paddling below the surface.
You need to be a broken record: "I love ww and I am willing to work with her to create a loving marriage. Please encourage her to end her affair and come home"
You guys are right about what I should of done. I let my emotions and frustration cloud my actions. I got an email from WW last night saying her grandmother passed. I cried a lil bit because her grandmother and me had a good relationship and she was always supportive of our marriage. After I wiped my tears I gave WW a call it was around midnight. She answered and I offered my condolences. She sounded like she was crying and kept me on the phone talking about DS and tv shows, just general small talk about her job too.
I know she lives with POSOM and yet she is talking to me. I'm guessing POSOM was at work because he's a security guard. The conversation was light and pleasant. Threw in some jokes that got her laughing then I had to end the call because it was late. She said she would call to talk to DS if he wanted to talk to her. I said give it a try, it seems she is accepting the fact that our DS doesn't want to talk to her and that I'm not "brainwashing" him. I also mailed MIL a card of my condolences. I feel so helpless because when things like this happen I was always there to comfort her and now I'm not.
I know her so well and I know she is in pain. I know that POSOM isn't as caring as me and it shows by the phone call. This [censored] really sucks, I think I need to go for a run and plan something fun to do with DS to blunt this knife I have in my heart...
ME: Here's a pic of DS and myself heading to church and the park. Was a good sermon, really going to miss this church.
WW: Seif is so big, I love and miss him so darn much. Where are you going?
ME: 4 years is up I'm moving cause of the job.
WW: Georgia?
ME: Yes, reserve center. Wanted to go to San Francisco but the job cheated me lol. After Georgia I have one more tour and I retire! Excited but frustrated. How's my SS. Said a prayer for you and your mom on Sunday. How's she handling her (mil) mother's passing?
WW: He's good. Mom is fine I'm the one who hasn't taken it very well. It really hit me and the fact that I didn't get to go see her doesn't help.
ME: Why couldnt you? If you don't mind me askin. I know how you feel. My granny was the best woman in the world to me. She passed on 24 Jun 01. That and 9/11 was the biggest reasons I signed up for the military. Hang in there I know your a tough girl. That's one of the many reasons I married you. /comfort
WW: She was getting better and then bam she died. They burried her next day and I couldn't afford to go there with such short notice. I was planning to go for thanksgiving but...
ME: That really sucks. Sometimes health is determined by mental state. So I was told. My granny was the same way she had a home dialysis machine and was improving then she just told my mom she was tired and died. You should still go on thanksgiving, I know you hate Puerto Rico but I know you always miss it there a lot! If you go head to Toa Baja and get our money from our old landlord lol. DS told me he wants a dog so I'm getting a gray and white Akita soon. It's like a Japanese husky they get big but I'm getting a puppy. I figure if I have a big dog it will give me an excuse to buy a house!
That's all I heard from her, think I handled it well. Sent a card to MIL and a package to her full of pics of me and DS, a homemade card by DS and me. I don't think she got it yet. It's going on a year and I have a little hope but doesn't seem anything is going to change anytime soon...
Good move on sending a card. I think the phone call was a risk but it went well It sounds like you made some love bank deposits. Hopefully OM will make some withdrwwls
I keep thinking about what OM ex wife said to you. She is either crazy and vindictive, or your wife would now be hooked on drugs.
Did you ever speak with his ex fiance? Did she talk about drugs?
I'm stalling it the best I can. As far as being hooked on drugs, I think her vice of choice is alcohol. POSOM is making withdrawals, I can tell when she talks to me she keeps me on the phone when she does call. From what I can tell he didn't support her through her grandma's death and I sense resentment that she couldn't make it there to the funeral. Florida to Puerto Rico isn't that expensive. she doesn't let me speak with him when I ask. She knows he will tell all and things aren't as ideal as she makes them seem. Dr. Harley says 2 years right?
Generally 2 years is his recommendation. I would not delay divorce. I think you should expedite it. I was fortunate; I was divorced 7 months after filing. If she's a drunk why would you want her back?
No confirmation on the drunk theory. I still love my wife and have faith in this program and myself. Being a child of divorced parents my childhood **EDIT**. I will not give up on my family without a fight. Dr. Harley said 2 years and a year has passed I can do this. I am a mentally strong individual and feel I can do this. She had similar values to me and I know she can have them again once this affair dies a natural death. If it doesn't then I will expedite the divorce.
Meanwhile, I'm being the best me I can be. I workout kept the weight off, when I met my WW I was 240 now I'm 190 and fit. I erased all my anger issues and devoted most of my time to family commitment and domestic support. Looking back these and IC, financial support, and affection are her top needs. Another reason I need to do this is because she isn't alone in ruining the marriage and I feel I need to prove to myself that I have the honor, courage and commitment to correct my faults. So if I'm a sucker, loser or hopeless romantic so be it. I honor my vows and love my family. I appreciate everyone's concern but I'm doing a lot better thanks to you all. God bless.
If she is receptive to your calls try increasing them. Nothing too noticeable. Try a 10% increase in weekly or monthly calls from you. That ia probably your beat way to make LB deposits now
One way to perhaps engage her and make some covert deposits is to ask her by text if she'd help you with a problem. It needs to be a real problem, of course.
You: "I got a problem that I could use some input on. I really don't have anyone else to ask but don't know if it's appropriate to ask you or involve you in my problems, do you have a minute or am I delusional????"
Her: "Of course I can help you, what's up?"
If she says "No"...then you still say something like "That's ok, I'll just go with my initial gut feeling, thanks anyway...It's so weird being single. I never realized how much I relied upon you in my decision making process. Have a good night"
Most likely she'll love to "help" you. The guilt alone will see this as an opportunity to make things up to you even in a small way. In so doing you are demonstrating admiration for her opinions and smarts by even going to her. You get more conversation and build your friendship with her. As you do this more and more (behind OM's back I might add) the more the converse effect starts eating at their weak relationship.
You've been here awhile...you certainly have read mywifeilove's threads where he Plan A'ed his wife while she lived with OM and eventually successfully recovered, right?
Thanks for the idea Mr. W. I got intel that POSOM is away from WW on a business trip which will explain her need to keep me on the phone. It was on these business trips that he met my WW so we all know what he's probably doing! So I will try to amp her the call volume like you said JK. Also, BH I'm halfway through that thread. I only read Mortarman's and GJM's threads(because WW and I are both military). Also using my snooping tactics I found out that POSOM is being pressured into marrying WW. She is doing the pressuring. Is this normal for WW's? This is abnormal of my wife pre-affair. Would like a little insight on this. The ex-fiance still maintains contact with POSOM even after I exposed to her. I think this POSOM is playing both her and my WW. Anyways, I got some assignments to complete:
1. Call WW and have hopefully have some IC. 2. Introduce a problem to WW for input. 3. Read that thread that BH linked me to.
edit: Chi I'm no ones hero, I'm just a guy who loves his family alot and will do anything for them. Even though I have dealbreakers. For instance, I will not raise an OC. Just wished I would of listened to this advice sooner and found this site alot sooner as well. Good luck in your struggle brother, take this from a guy who has anger issues because of an affair, cool heads always prevail...
To be honest, I think so. A WW, from what I hear, doesn't "leave" unless she is totally "committed" to the OM, and she wants to have something to show for having left you, I think.
Well WW posted a new pic of herself on social media. Guess what! She was wearing the necklace I got her for her birthday last year. Really upset about that.
Well WW posted a new pic of herself on social media. Guess what! She was wearing the necklace I got her for her birthday last year. Really upset about that.
Maybe it is a GOOD sign, though...
When I was just past D-Day, I didn't want to wear anything Taffy personally gave me... Only after I was feeling closer to him again...
Well WW posted a new pic of herself on social media. Guess what! She was wearing the necklace I got her for her birthday last year. Really upset about that.
See how just seeing a picture of her is upsetting?
Well WW posted a new pic of herself on social media. Guess what! She was wearing the necklace I got her for her birthday last year. Really upset about that.
See how just seeing a picture of her is upsetting?
It isn't the picture it's the fact I gave it to her why wear it? Waywards are confusing.
Well WW posted a new pic of herself on social media. Guess what! She was wearing the necklace I got her for her birthday last year. Really upset about that.
See how just seeing a picture of her is upsetting?
It isn't the picture it's the fact I gave it to her why wear it? Waywards are confusing.
Why post when you do not read what others post?
Originally Posted by catwhit
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Well WW posted a new pic of herself on social media. Guess what! She was wearing the necklace I got her for her birthday last year. Really upset about that.
Maybe it is a GOOD sign, though...
When I was just past D-Day, I didn't want to wear anything Taffy personally gave me... Only after I was feeling closer to him again...
Sorry using my phone its signal sucked and the post didn't show up in time. Just talked with WW after I sent the text about a problem I had. She called as I was typing up the response to her text message. We talked about 30 minutes about the kids and the problem I brought forth. Was pleasant she was telling me about the people she didn't like at her job, how SS was doing, etc. I had to cut it short because of a meeting at work. I followed the conversation with a thank text for her help and how different it is making decisions without her input. Basically used Mr.W's response just with a little personal touch. Wished her a nice day at work.
Sorry using my phone its signal sucked and the post didn't show up in time. Just talked with WW after I sent the text about a problem I had. She called as I was typing up the response to her text message. We talked about 30 minutes about the kids and the problem I brought forth. Was pleasant she was telling me about the people she didn't like at her job, how SS was doing, etc. I had to cut it short because of a meeting at work. I followed the conversation with a thank text for her help and how different it is making decisions without her input. Basically used Mr.W's response just with a little personal touch. Wished her a nice day at work.
"She Called" - look how excited she was to have the opportunity to help you. Now don't get ahead of yourself...it's not feelings of love or even like rather guilt/shame that motivated her to call you promptly.
"I had to cut it short" - This is awesome too. In all those little "how to pick up women" books/guides one of the keys of attraction is to give someone attention and then walk away first and leave them hanging wanting more. No doubt she got off the phone and felt disappointment. Maybe that disappointment triggered a little ping in the back of her head maybe it didn't but you leave her hanging wanting more a few times and she's bound to start having feelings for you once again.
Where do you go from here? Re-read the 15 steps to how affairs happen. Essentially you are in the beginning phases of trying to [legitimately] use the same techniques OM's use to seduce married women. You are befriending her. Perhaps the next step is to slowly try to get her to talk about OM. That may be a very hard conversation for you to endure but getting her to open up about him is an awesome first step to destroying their relationship from the inside. Once she does...you are "in" the circle and OM is "out". You become the secret she can't tell OM about.
Another trick OM's often use....especially the old boyfriend from high school guy is to talk about how different and sad she seems nowadays. How the perky vibrant girl they once knew appears gone. Perhaps the lead in to talking about OM...as in "what is he doing to you"? or something. Play it by ear.
This is the out affair the affair strategy. It is hugely taxing on your lovebank. You will build up expectations and all she may be doing is alleviating guilt by making and keeping you as a friend. She may have no intention of leaving OM and just like the attention and feel great about getting you back as her friend. Perhaps you have to, at times, remind her that you have no intention of being in the "friend-zone". It's tough to fit that in...but hopefully she'll like the attention enough to not shut you down when you say "no, I'm not really trying to be your friend...I still want our marriage back" in response to her inquiry as to your intentions. If she has no intention of leaving OM she'll eventually feel guilty about leading you on. She'll ask. Anticipate the question and feel out a proper response. It's a fine balance between being jovial and responding with "whatever...I'm a big guy I can choose my friends" to a more vulnerable response like above that may result in her pulling back.
Caveat - out affair the affair is a extreme strategy that only MAY work way down the road after WW has moved out and in with her OM but remains willing to communicate with the BH. It's more proactive ...but it also drains a lovebank more quickly then a more passive watch the affair implode from a distance plan.
Got this via email from WW not sure on how to respond. Please help.
WW: What shoe size does DS wear? And if I send him something would you give it to him from mommy? Be honest.
She doesn't know what shoe size her child wears?? I can't remember; are you in Plan B? If you are not in Plan B, I would respond: His shoe size is XX.Please send any packages to him at XX. If you are in Plan B, you shouldn't have gotten her message.
Got this via email from WW not sure on how to respond. Please help.
WW: What shoe size does DS wear? And if I send him something would you give it to him from mommy? Be honest.
I would send her something like "Well, that's awfully nice of you. He was wearing size XX, but has now grown up to a size ZZ. You know how fast they grow! And, of course I'd be happy to tell him they're from mommy.
I'm sure he'll appreciate your thoughtfulness, as do I."
I'm in sales and customer service (self employed). This is what's called creating fear of loss. The fear of loss in this case is that she is missing her son growing up to the point that she doesn't even know his show size. Uhh, every mom should know that. Well, every mom that is there, of course. The first thing that will cross her mind is just what she's really missing by engaging in her affair.
Like that pebble in the stream to build the dam, this is one more way of pointing out the really important things in life that she is throwing away and never to be recovered. She can't get her child growing up without her there back....ever. The beauty is, you don't even have to point that out. Believe me, it will hit her over the head like a bag of bricks.
"Well, that's really nice of you. He was wearing size XX but has now grown up to a size XX depending on the shoe. You know how fast they grow! This guy eats like he's grown! The other night I made grilled halibut, asparagus and pear slices. He ate two whole halibut steaks and his vegetables! One hour later he wanted cereal. And, of course I'd be happy to tell him they're from mommy."
I didn't get a response POSOM came back yesterday. Thanks for the advice, now to enjoy my weekend with a movie with DS.
Darn you BH. It took me over 2 days to read that entire thread, but it was worth it.
LTL
I just finished and the similarities are startling. Gives me a renewed vigor for the fight! I'm a year in and I KNOW I can do this! I had real insecurities about POSOM, self esteem issues. I thought maybe he was a better man than me. But that thread and some intel I received proved those negative thoughts wrong. I am the better option, mentally, physically, financially and emotionally. Thanks for the link BH and the advice everyone.
There were several really helpful posters that stuck through the entire thread with MYIL, including both Mr. and Mrs. W.
I guess you have to use the special secret Cologne for things to work out.
LTL
So he had the attention of two of the big guns around here. You jealous?
"special cologne" what's that about?
You need to read the thread, or at least Mr. W's posts in it.
There were at least 3-4 other continuously very helpful posters who were very regular contributors with great MB advice. Plus, there was another poster with a near identical sitch with his WW named "DazedAndConfused" that i would like to read his whole story to see how it turned out.
There were several really helpful posters that stuck through the entire thread with MYIL, including both Mr. and Mrs. W.
I guess you have to use the special secret Cologne for things to work out.
LTL
So he had the attention of two of the big guns around here. You jealous?
"special cologne" what's that about?
You need to read the thread, or at least Mr. W's posts in it.
There were at least 3-4 other continuously very helpful posters who were very regular contributors with great MB advice. Plus, there was another poster with a near identical sitch with his WW named "DazedAndConfused" that i would like to read his whole story to see how it turned out.
LTL
Sshhhhhh...we don't tell The Road about the Cologne. Interestingly I just stumbled upon my bottle of Bvlgari this morning and I'm wearing it now.
The Dazed story is awfully convoluted. It also was a long battle (for his wife and between MB board members) and he eventually prevailed even though his wife had moved in with OM. However, several years later his wife showed up here seeking out help because Dazed was having an affair. She exposed it...it ended and they were recovering again. Last time I emailed Dazed he didn't respond so I don't have any more updates other than that.
Tranquil,
Nice job on the shoe thing. I don't recall your whole story but if OM was out of town could you ever just suggest, even in a joking manner..."hey, why don't you just sneak off and come visit us for a day and buy the sneakers for DS yourself". I'll buy lunch. Whatya say?"
Getting her sneaking around on OM seems like a worthy endeavor. She might not do it this time and you can just laugh it off as though you were merely joking....but it may plant the seed for next time OM is out of town that she COULD have the option of sneaking in a visit.
Whether you recover or become a single guy one day...anything you can do to improve your confidence looks wise will pay off. Take advantage of those military benefits and get anything you can think of to help you out. Corrective eye surgery so you can get rid of glasses/contacts, braces and/or teeth whitening, dermatologist...even manicures, new haircut, different grooming...etc. I already presume you are and have maintained being in great shape....so that's consistent but, in hopes of impressing her the next time you see her (or if and when you become single) think of some things out of the box to help you shock her and increase your perceived value. The last couple years have certainly been shocking and stressful. You want and need to release that stress and not allow it to effect your appearance and confidence.
Well this Plan A is showing some progress, WW called and talked to me about SS and her life. It seems SS isn't doing well in school and that WW was hospitalized a couple months ago. When I asked her what happened she said "don't worry about it". Other than that I deposited some love units with light banter. She wants to come visit with SS sometime soon. I don't know what to make of this but I'll take it as a positive.
I do believe that. Because if it was something other she would of told me. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and maybe she will open up to me about it.
Got a message from MIL saying she would like to come visit DS. I don't know how to respond to this. Last time MIL came she conspired with my WW and whisked my DS and SS out of the continental USA. I had to get a court order to get him back. I'm thinking of saying no, advice is needed.
Its been almost a year. I would set a firm boundary, such as meeting at a fast food restaurant or going to the zoo. I wouldn't trust her as far as you can throw her
I've received your message and I have to say my first reaction is "no". Last time I saw you, you conspired with WW and whisked my DS and SS out of the continental USA. I had to go to court to get him back. Thousands of dollars later DS is here with me where he belongs while SS remains kept away from the only father he has ever known.
I'd like more information. Why should I reconsider? Why should I trust you?
And...please don't insult me by trying to barter access to SS for access to DS. Technically, SS should be at home with me too and this conversation with you should be about your access to both of them.
"I would welcome the chance for all of us to spend some time together. Accordingly, I would suggest you, WW, SS, DS and I plan to spend a day together at my new place in Georgia when I get settled there. We could go to the zoo or museum followed by a dinner at Red Lobster.
This would be a great chance for the boys to see each other, and all of us enjoy their time together.
I look forward to your anticipated concurrence."
Her reply was thanks for remembering my birthday and God bless us.
Yes, I have multiple times. She apologized and said she thought she was doing the right thing. She also disclosed that WW made physical abuse claims and that prompted her to do what she did. Now she sees it was a lie and she's is angry with WW. I don't trust her though and she will not be alone with my son.
Trying to see the positive in this. WW is opening up more and more to me. She wants the come visit DS and I when we get to our new location. DS is excited of course and asked WW will she bring SS and will she stay. She quickly said yes and SS will be there too. I didn't read to much into it, I said it would be nice and quickly changed the subject to something more pleasant. Yesterday I called to ask for SS clothing size because I was sending him a Halloween costume.
She did not want me to get off the phone. Everytime I tried she kept wanting to talk about SS and other random things. I listen for a little a bit got the information I needed. She also thank me for the recent package I sent her and SS. It was full of pics of me and DS together, old family pics and two pictures of herself and me, a stuff animal DS and I made at build a bear, sympathy card for her recent loss and a movie for SS. I sent it to POSOM address, she said SS isn't doing good in school. He got 2 Ds on his report card and he might be ADD. I think its because of his environment because of all this mess she created.
Also, maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling POSOM truth self is coming to light. She has never mentioned him. In the beginning it was POSOM does this and you don't, blah blah. Comparing his positives to my negatives and never the other way around. I haven't asked about their relationsh!t or our marriage for that matter. I figure I will just give her time and maybe she will open up to me. Hope this is progress because it feels foreign to me.
Tranquil, I have been checking in on you here and there. I'm happy to see how well you and DS have been doing. I have a question, when WW said she was going to stay, did she mean for a visit or for good? Maybe, since she is opening up to you more and allowing you to make deposits, now may be a good time to give her a subtle reminder that the door is still open for her to return to her family for good if she chose to. A reminder to her as she might not believe that that is still an option. I know Kiss didn't believe that he had an option of returning to his family after everything he put us through, even though it was spelled out in the plan B letter to him.
I think waiting for her to come is a good idea, though I agree with RQ's idea.
You are doing a great job of making the right kind of deposits, by being the caring ear and sending her a very nice care package. I also like the pace you are taking with this. This is a big improvement over the earlier days.
The signs from her side are encouraging. It seems to me that the fantasy bubble has popped, and now you have reality on your side.
Well not much has been happening small talk here and there. Oh and get this MIL is texting me and saying things like how I am a good father and role model. God is on my side and that she is sorry for the pain WW has caused. Plan A is working very well me thinks! Stoked for halloween can't wait DS and I are going to a haunted house!
We are going full blown zombie house lol. He loves walking dead! Anyways a little contact phone chatter with WW. She was feeling stressed at her job and vented to me. Unlike in the past I just listened. It was hard fighting the urge "to fix" the problem. Learning to be a better listener. She also thanked DS for the stuff animal in the package. I used some of my cologne and slept with it so it has my aura. She sleeps with it every night so she says. Score one for TD!
My favorite from my WW is "It would be easy to come back to you". She said this recently. My response was "It may be easy for you to say that but harder to actually do it. "
How does your response help your Plan A? I think a better response may be: "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage and keep our family together"
HUGE NEWS! I have viable information that things are going to the dogs with my WW's affair. Nothing from her mouth mind you but 100% good intel. It seems she and POSOM aren't getting along at all, a whole lot of AO's from both sides. Sad part of it all she was supposedly engaged to this scumbag! I do not know where she is but she apparently bought a plane ticket out of the city where she settled with POSOM. How should I proceed? Should I ramp up my Plan A carrot or just sit back patiently until she contacts me? I really don't want to mess this up. God bless and good night!
TD, If you are still committed to Plan A, then find out where and how she is. Keep your door open, but be on guard. Take it slow, my friend, and let us know if you hear from her.
I've told you before that your D-Day was a year after mine, and we have progressed seemingly along the same timeline with mine one year ahead of yours. Just a coincidence maybe, but your story could be still following the same trajectory. Last year at this time, my Ex wife made a decision to leave her affair partner. Next Saturday will mark one year that she and I began talking again. It was the last thing I expected to happen at the time.
Be prepared for her to knock on the door. Or maybe she is going back to PR. I sure hope she isn't leaving SS with OM.
If she knocks on the door don't let her in. Calmly tell her you would love to talk to her in a neutral place (like a restaurant or park) At that point you would convey your willingness to recover your marriage IF she agreed to the MB recovery program.
I see this often, a wayward will break up and return home. Sometimes its actually after divorce and they just remain permanent renters. So guard against this scenerio happening.
If the OM ex wife is truthful, and he drugs his women then you have a bigger problem than regular MB recovery because then you have an addict to deal with.
If anything progresses make use of Dr Harley. He said to email him and he will help so do it.
Thanks for the advice, I will call her and she her whereabouts on the sly. I really think she is going to make a reconciliation move when I get to my new duty station. Where I'm at now I'm I have a lot of friends and family and I think she is too ashamed to face them. I believe she is aiming for the old sweep it under the rug approach. I'll keep you all posted.
Birthdays and Christmas coming up should I get her presents or ignore those days? For her birthday I was going to get a stuff animal (holds significance because it's from a game we used to play together), some recent pictures of DS and me, and maybe a card. Thoughts?
Sent a poem I wrote to WW and DS and I made her a birthday gift. We also called and wished her a happy birthday. I heard POSOM in the background spouting his disapproval, kind of made my day. Nothing new to report just filling that lake with those pebbles.
DS and I will be at our be residence soon, can't wait getting cold here and its warmer in GA. Kind of upset that's its close to where WW lives 7 to 8 hours actually. Wasn't my call and something tells me some hysterical woman is going to show up at my door in 2014. Thanks JK I know how to handle when it happens cause we all know it will. Just a matter of when.
At some point -- I agree with you -- next year, there is going to be a hysterical woman wanting home, because it really sounds like POSOM is showing his true, nasty, colors...repeatedly.
How did she act on the phone? Is she warm to you? Besides hearing the POSOM on the other end of the phone, has she dropped more clues that things are falling apart there?
She is warm to me on the phone. She vented to me a couple of times but the problems are about her job and how SS is doing in school. She hasn't opened up to me about the conflict between her and POSOM. In time she will I am sure, her lovebank is filling slowly because she used to be Ice cold to me back in March now its light talk, mixed with some venting and joking.
On Social media there are pics of her and POSOM youngest daughter (the other three of his children don't see him) and her in a nauseating family pic. SS no where to be found. In fact most of the pics do not have SS in them. My guess he isn't getting along with POSOM and that is the cause of much of their conflict. When we talk I ask to to talk with SS and she always has an excuse to why he can't make it to the phone. When I do talk to him he sounds like he wants to say something but can't because she is present.
It is a very sad thing she is doing to her own children. She has abandoned both of them.
Not sure how to read her friendliness to you. Could be your are making successful love bank deposits. Or she might be assuaging her own guilt by being nice to you, and she certainly would welcome being "friends" after the divorce, as that is a wayward's dream scenario. Just something to keep in mind as you Plan A without expectations.
You are doing a great job. How long have you been in Plan A? Seems like its been a full year at least.
Yes, it's been a long year. WW wants to come to see DS and I for Christmas. I'm am confused as to why she wants to do that when her affair is so friggin awesome (sarcasm). Putting on my Plan A superhero suit for that visit.....if it happens. My guess POSOM pulled some "I have to go see my daughter and baby mama for Christmas because I don't get to see her" trash and WW is doing the same thing.
MERRY FRICKING CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. Just wanted to say thanks for your help during my crisis to everyone. For those who read this, MB if followed exactly is empowering and no matter how bad it gets. Plan A strong, keeping calm and MBing on!
Merry Christmas, TD. I hope that you and your son have a joyful time this holiday season. It's a bittersweet time for some many who are on this board, but just remember the reason for the season and take joy in that.
Hello Tranquil and a Merry Christmas to you too, and to all here! I hope that you and your son can enjoy a peaceful and happy time. Just a little breather time here right now this Christmas Day before I start preparing a spicy shrimp dinner for my son and his gf who are coming over later this afternoon. Have you made a phone call to your ww today? Just to exchange Christmas greetings. I called my wife (is in a nursing home) last evening and we talked for quite awhile. I was feeling somewhat down yesterday afternoon because the last time we spent Christmas together here was Christmas 2010. But, looking forward to visiting her (she is in a home out-of-state) in early January - not only a chance to see her, but also to get out if this winter weather.
As you approach the new year tho, are you weighing the possibility of going to Plan B instead of continuing with A? I ask that because after this much time that you have endured, from your posts it does not seem that she has moved much at all toward reconciliation with either you or your son.
she's not in the area. Her excuse to DS was she has a new job and couldn't get the days off. DS was semi-upset that he couldn't see his brother. After he talked to her she talked to me for awhile. Just small talks about gifts and her new job. This was on Christmas Eve. I asked what she was doing for Christmas and she said not much.
We got her a stuff animal and card for her birthday. She told DS liked it and that's it's next to the other one we got her and she sleeps with it every night. The stuff animal is from a game we used to play together. For Christmas we got her an earring and necklace set. Sent SS gifts too he loved them. When I asked if she got the package we sent she said yes but it sounded kind of sad in away.
My guess is the package started a fight with her and POSOM. Yet, she kept it and thank me for it. Saying the gifts were from DS and that's why she will accept them. Even though she knows they were from me. We maintained a cheerful conversation about old times as well. I found some old pictures of us together and asked if she wants them.
She said yes, I'm making small deposits in lovebank. I got an email from her Christmas morning about the gifts. Politely responded no problem and tell SS we miss him and love them both. She is missing her old life a lot and I think she is holding on to momentos of that life. Soulmate phase is over people and reality is hitting her.
Its bittersweet but at the same time I'm grateful because my life could be much worse. Just moved into a new state and apartment, my son love his daddy to death, I have a nice job and my health life is good and will only get better. Just got to be that lighthouse for WW.
As far as Plan B goes I plan on emailing Dr. Harley about that sometime in the near future. It's been a year and 2 months, I plan on taking the two years as he suggests. Mentally capable of handling it....for now. If that mental status changes its Plan B for me.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. MIL text me that WW is tryiing to get custody of DS. Got my documentation of all the incidents and legal paperwork in order. Honestly, think its just wayward fogbabble because MIL was giving her heck about ruining her life. We shall see...
In other news talked to WW and she sounded depressed. However she perked up about the Christmas gifts, I got her and SS. DS picked the earrings and necklace style and I picked the gemstone was a good time shopping for them. SS was excited at his gift as well. I found an old anniversary card WW sent me when I was away from training. If you didn't know us you'd swear it was from someone else.
I plan on sending another package for SS, got one of his Christmas gifts late. Throwing around the idea of sending it as well as some old photos I found as well. Thoughts? I asked her if she wanted the old pics and made sure I said they were family pics of me, her and the children and I got an overwhelming yes. Thanks Mrs. Justthe3ofus for the "extravagant" gift idea. Happy New Year to everyone as well. Signed up for a half marathon in March so if you don't hear from me in April I died lol.
I think she will be like my ex wife, she is living her values and is a walk away mom. My ex wife complains to family etc but truly doesn't want the kids.
Quick question, I am moved in and settled and want to try to apply for child support from WW now that she has a job. Is it easy to do? Will that be a good Plan A move? I am the breadwinner but with all the childcare expenses my income has taken a huge hit. Thanks for your advice in advance.
It's part of the reality of the situation. Your wife has a legal and moral responsibility to raise and care for her child. Sadly she has abrogated that responsibility and abandoned him. But the courts can insist that she support him financially, and you should pursue it. In no way is that a violation of Plan A.
If nothing else, she will respect you for standing up to her and showing gumption, so long as you pursue the child support respectfully and without judgment, which I know you will do.
I have appointment set up to talk to them on Tuesday. I have full custody for over a year. Its temporary, I was granted custody after she ran off with DS and divorce is filed. No order for support is in place now. Your right about that, Just.
Quick question, I am moved in and settled and want to try to apply for child support from WW now that she has a job. Is it easy to do? Will that be a good Plan A move? I am the breadwinner but with all the childcare expenses my income has taken a huge hit. Thanks for your advice in advance.
Yes! Call the welfare dept and they can tell you what to do for CS.
I have 3 kids...and no CS. I would encourahe you to seek CS
Quick question, I am moved in and settled and want to try to apply for child support from WW now that she has a job. Is it easy to do? Will that be a good Plan A move? I am the breadwinner but with all the childcare expenses my income has taken a huge hit. Thanks for your advice in advance.
Yes! Call the welfare dept and they can tell you what to do for CS.
I have 3 kids...and no CS. I would encourahe you to seek CS
I also encourage you.
It may help her feel the consequences of her affair.
The only potential drawback I can see is that this may encourage her to hire a lawyer and try and get custody so that YOU will have to be the one giving support. Since she has abandoned her son (it's been a year now if I'm not mistaken) she probably won't have luck with that. And since you are now both in different states, that really complicates things since split custody is not on the table. I don't even know which state handles the divorce. The state you both lived in I would presume. Messy.
Regardless, since she is working, she has an obligation to help you support your son. You should probably ask your attorney about the implications of demanding child support.
My attorney says it will stir a hornet's nest. I am still going to pursue and I have my bases covered if WW wants to try for custody. Since the divorce was started in another state, I filed first, my attorney says she cannot file anywhere else. So all signs point to going for child support. I have an appointment Tuesday to see what I need to do. Thanks everyone for your advice.
My attorney says it will stir a hornet's nest. I am still going to pursue and I have my bases covered if WW wants to try for custody. Since the divorce was started in another state, I filed first, my attorney says she cannot file anywhere else. So all signs point to going for child support. I have an appointment Tuesday to see what I need to do. Thanks everyone for your advice.
TQ, I think there are two avenues for CS....legal/ courts AND Welfare Agency. The welfare dept has powers outside of the court...because poor single people gp to the welfare dept all the time and get this (at least I think they do in Ohio and CA)
Have you tried calling the local welfare dept? It may save you legally money
Makes sense to me and I will follow it. Just canceled the appointment when I heard it. Going to crunch some numbers in my budget and try to get some outside income.
Why don't you ask her if she is willing to help out. Can't hurt, as long as you're not demanding. If she agrees your son will know that she is also supporting him. This might ease her guilt. It also might even be a good Plan A tactic as it indirectly ties her to the family. She might even start to think about the opportunity cost she is paying, which could become the incentive she needs to come back. You never know.
When I divorced my wife, I did not ask for support because I didn't want to jeopardize the full custody arrangement that I had or the settle we had in place. Things were tight, but strategically, it was a good move.
Like justthe3ofus, I also did not seek child support. Most deadbeat moms are afraid of child support so sometimes they will give up custody if the don't have to pay
My deadbeat first husband was more than willing to let my present husband adopt my child to get out of paying back, present and future child support. His new little wife actually called me and said that "your kid is costing me my dream car". Done deal! Awesome!
Well kind of feel like crap. Today was SS birthday, DS and I called and sang him happy birthday and I put a gift in the mail for him. When I got to talk with him he sounded distant like he didn't know what to say. Anyone with step-children experience this? My thoughts are he is/was and still unhappy with the situation and that WW is watching him on the phone like a hawk.
Spoke to WW for a lil bit as well. She uses this fake "I'm all right but I'm not voice. I know her when she uses it things aren't all right. DS stated to her "Please leave POSOM and come home" I heard her hold back tears some, guess this is the addiction factor of affairs. Things aren't good yet she still sticks to her POSOM. When I asked SS what is he doing for his birthday WW quickly replied "I got him a cake and a present", didn't let him answer at all. Poor guy is miserable, I know he misses DS and me. I remember the last thing he said to me when we were talking regularly. "Mom, won't listen to me, I'm just a kid." Guess its true in some regard, while snooping I uncovered another fight between POSOM and WW.
It happened approx. 2 days after my last package. Apparently, he likes to just leave when they start fighting and stay out all night. Returns like nothing happened, only a matter of time before he runs out. Pics of them online together for some reason doesn't make me mad at all. I guess its because she has a phony smile in each one and POSOM doesn't smile because his teeth aren't up to par lol.
I feel for your Step Son. To be honest, i have no sympathy for your wife. As you know, my wife left me and our 3 kids for her OM. They still live together, although Ive heard from the rumor mill that "their relationship has downgraded to a friends with benefits" living together deal....
The problem is that your step son has NO moral role model in his life. Its good that that you reach out to him. Hopefully he wont turn to drugs sex or booze for whats missing in his life. Try to encourage him to go to a church youth group. They can pick him up in a church bus every week
I have 100% custody of my S-10, soon to be 11 in a month by default, similar to JK and i have my boy involved in After School Sports, Martial Arts and Cub Scouts bridging to Boy Scouts next month.
Do you think you might be able to get the boys involved together in some sort of agreed upon extracurricular activity so they, along with yourself can continue the family and friendship bond?
It would seem as if suggesting this would be something that could be viewed as being In The Best Interests Of The Child/Children together, with you unselfishly gaining some ongoing positive contact.
So, DS and I had a tandem conversation with WW. It was not planned he wanted to talk to his mother so I let him call her. She answered and talked with DS and DS talked with her and SS. SS will not talk to me even at the behest of DS. I don't if he shut me out because of POSOM being an "awesome" figure or that he is being watched by WW and can't speak his mind. Well somehow it turned into WW wanting to talk to me. We made small talk for about 30 minutes.
She sounded worse for wear, probably just a ploy to get sympathy from me. I wasn't falling for it, she kicked around the idea of me and DS meeting her at a amusement park for a vacation like trip. I told her I was open to the idea and plan to bounce off suggestions and planning with her in the future. SS and DS are stoked about the idea. I am indifferent and I am not 100% sure she will even show up but either way DS and I will have fun.
I look at the trip as a way for her to see me under the pretense of seeing her son. I am sure this is how she will spin it to POSOM. I know with my snooping in place that he goes and sees his daughter without WW. So, sacrifice is in play in this affair. It can be a wonderful opportunity for Plan A and I am sure she is missing my positive qualities over my negative ones. I heard Dr. Harley discuss this on the show, I guess my lovebank deposits are starting to pay off.
I notice that I feel empowered even though the situation is what it is. I receive a lot of support from my friends and fellow military members who know the whole story. I tried a IG report but that didn't fall through. However, I now work with the highest ranking enlisted member of the unit she is attached to and plan on exposing to him. Will this be ideal or should I just leave exposure alone since I already done it. I exposed to the unit that was in Illinois but since she relocated to Florida (the unit where POSOM is in) I am not sure if they know the whole story.
DS loves our new home and his new school. We spend countless hours together, whether its playing video games, coloring or reading books. I know for a fact I am a superior father and always have been. DS is very smart and witty for his age as well. He told WW without me coaxing him that WW should leave POSOM and come home. I kind of chuckled at her gasping, stuttering response. WW told him that daddy doesn't want her there and I clarified it with her on the phone and DS listening. "I'm willing to work with you to create a marriage where both our needs are met only if you end all contact with your affair partner."
Thanks in advance for your responses and support, God Bless.
Well the fight continues, spoke with WW multiple times and she seems very depressed. She tries her best to hide it but the cracks are showing. On Valentine's day DS and I sent her a package with stuff for SS as well. We made her a card and I included an old anniversary letter that she sent me when I was away on training. It hasn't arrived yet and she was very adamant about making it so she has to sign for it. We also called her on Valentie's day and sang a song to her upon greeting, she was extremely pleased and thank me repeatedly for the call.
She was complaining how she has to work six days a week 9-10 hour shifts. Folks, please keep in mind when she was with me she was a housewife, don't think she is enjoying affair land too much. My guess is that pride is keeping her there, I try not think of it too much. Wasted energy that can be used toward other more productive things. I also feel she is hoarding my pictures and things I send her in a "secret stash" and reliving those key moments in our marriage before the affair.
DS is doing well in school! He's in kindergarten reading at a 2nd grade level, so proud of him and me. Starting to warm up and I am making plans to go out and do a treasure hunt with him and hiking. I think I know the answer to this question but still would like some input. I looked into going to a amusement park with WW and SS. I haven't brought my plans up to WW yet but should I pay for her and SS to attend or does that fall into the category of fianacing the affair? Thanks for your help everyone and God Bless!
Oh to anyone with kids GO SEE THE LEGO MOVIE it was awesome, best animated movie in a long time!
I think you are right..pride is what is keeping her there. The Devil whispers in her ear, as he did with Eve. Keep praying for her, pray from the book of Hosea
You are doing an excellent Plan A. I'm really impressed by your discipline and perseverance. You are nearly 18 months into it, and you are getting stronger. You set a very good example for betrayed husbands who read this forum.
To answer your question, you will not be financing her affair if you pay for her to come and visit you and your son. But you could be causing a big problem between her and her POSOM. So give it a try.
Also, nice move giving her the old anniversary card that she gave you. I did the same thing to my FWW. I sent it to her with a handwritten note letting her know that what we had was special and could be special again. She never said anything about it. When I helped her move her stuff back into our home a year later, I found the card and my note in her bookcase. She kept it, much to my surprise.
TQ, Your mission almost persuades me to jump on board and try to win my ex ww back! You're doing a great Plan A! Dr Harley should buy you a steak dinner for following his Plan A advice so diligently!
JK, Just. Thanks for your support, as far as legal goes things are moving on my pace. I have my attorney ready to pull the trigger once I reach my limit. I still have temp. full custody and she hasn't seen our son since March of last year. JK, I may consider doing that not sure at this moment. I read that letter when this all started and thought about that many times.
Interesting turn of events today, I got a call from my bank and apparently someone tried to access my bank accounts online and change my password. Spoke with the electronic fraud department and they told me the request came from a ISP based in FL. Miami specifically, I guess WW is trying to either spy on my accounts or take money. Either way she couldn't do anything if she was able to get into the account because it takes about a month to wire money to an account because of safe measures I put in place.
Using my snooping I found out WW may of lost her job. I haven't spoken to her in a month considered calling to see if she was ok and just talk with her. She is in the reserves and drills one weekend a month and does training two weeks a year. However, she can volunteer for additional training, when reserves are on orders they receive active duty pay. WW went on an additional training and returned to her job to find she was fired. She filed a grievance with the military about it.
Working with stuff like that in my military career, I know she doesn't have a case and would more than likely be jobless. Since she volunteered for the training and it wasn't mandatory. She took the training because she would make more money being on orders than she would doing her civilian job. The other theory would be that POSOM (who is also a reservist) lost his job and filed a grievance. Either way, with the cost of living in Miami, FL and their income the quality of life is no where near to what WW and I had when we were together. WW is high maintenance type too. Coach bags and expensive shoes, income tax can only go so far. Guess reality bites.....
She knew my security questions. SS is in school and not doing well grade wise. She told me this last time I talked to her. Its true what the ex wife said. Maybe it is happening now to WW. I work out training for a half marathon at the moment. My son is resenting my WW which is normal. He says things like his mom loves POSOM more than him and how I did nothing wrong. Other times he misses his old mom. We do recreational things together, little league starts next week for him as well. I take care of myself and focusing on my son and my job. Trying to make rank. Her getting pregnant by POSOM will be my deal breaker. When I talk to her I will ask her about going through my online bank.
She knew my security questions. SS is in school and not doing well grade wise. She told me this last time I talked to her. Its true what the ex wife said. Maybe it is happening now to WW. I work out training for a half marathon at the moment. My son is resenting my WW which is normal. He says things like his mom loves POSOM more than him and how I did nothing wrong. Other times he misses his old mom. We do recreational things together, little league starts next week for him as well. I take care of myself and focusing on my son and my job. Trying to make rank. Her getting pregnant by POSOM will be my deal breaker. When I talk to her I will ask her about going through my online bank.
TD, As usual you're a soldier my friend. It is fantastic you are handling it so well with such strength.
Its true what the ex wife said. Maybe it is happening now to WW.
Does the military do regular drug testing? If she is a drug addict, it is a progressive disease and she will get worse. Unfortunately, the step son would be at high risk of drug use also.
What kind of drug did the ex say OM uses and gives to his girlfriends?
Crack/cocaine and yes they do. It's sporadic at best, you can't hide drug abuse for long. It will eventually show, however I think she is clean but probably an alcoholic. I have no proof of that but that's my gut feeling. The bank told me since only the email address on file was changed and password no investigation is needed. Going to call her after work and will let you know what she says. She will either lie or get angry.
I am going to simply ask are you in need of some money? Why go into my account without my knowledge? Do not do it again as I will take appropriate actions to protect my finances against your tampering.
I am going to simply ask are you in need of some money? Why go into my account without my knowledge? Do not do it again as I will take appropriate actions to protect my finances against your tampering.
I wouldn't do any of this. Just stay cool in plan A. Let all of her anger be directed at OM
Instead, ask how she is and drop a comment like: "DS and I are going shopping for some new furniture and then going to the ice cream shop. We wish you were with us."
EDIT: Be the loving husband that is attractive to her, not the policeman of the bank
Instead, ask how she is and drop a comment like: "DS and I are going shopping for some new furniture and then going to the ice cream shop. We wish you were with us."
EDIT: Be the loving husband that is attractive to her, not the policeman of the bank
Understood, just got through with a 5k run. Feeling that runner's high! Half marathon next March!
Next month is a 10k, next year is the half marathon. I need to lose about 10-12 lbs to get my time down per mile. Spoke with WW. DS spoke to her for a little and asked if she wanted to talk to her husband. It went sort of like this:
WW: I am not sure that daddy wants to talk to me he might be mad. (DS hands me the phone)
ME: DS and I just got through feeding some ducks around our apt complex. Wish you and SS were here, it was fun. How are you doing?
WW: I am doing fine, sorry I haven't sent his Christmas gift yet, I pass by the Post Office but I am so tired after work that I don't stop.
ME: It's all good I sent you and SS something and it should be there Wednesday or Thursday.
WW: Thank you so much, SS is on spring break and wanted to speak with DS.
ME: Sure give me a call tomorrow or I can call you. I work from 0615 to 1800. Tell SS we miss him and I got the new video game.
WW: Ok, I have to go because they get mad if I am on the phone at work.
ME: Ok, you have a nice night and give SS a hug from DS and me. You will like whats in the package.
Thanks, when she was talking at first she had a tremble in her voice. You know that voice when you catch your children doing something they shouldn't and they know you know. She was expecting a AO and didn't get one, I guess.
Thanks, when she was talking at first she had a tremble in her voice. You know that voice when you catch your children doing something they shouldn't and they know you know. She was expecting a AO and didn't get one, I guess.
When you get a chance, read the book of Tobit. It is in the Old Testament. (not in Protestant Bibles, only in Catholic and Orthodox. You can read it online). It is a great book about Gods love for marriage and how He uses angels to intercede in our lives.
I wouldn't do any of this. Just stay cool in plan A. Let all of her anger be directed at OM
TD, you said your wife knows your security questions.
Have you considered that the attempted bank-breaker might not have been your wife but her AP?
You may want to reconsider and come up with a plan A way to say that an attempt on your account was made from a Miami ISP without suggesting she is to blame.
I wouldn't do any of this. Just stay cool in plan A. Let all of her anger be directed at OM
TD, you said your wife knows your security questions.
Have you considered that the attempted bank-breaker might not have been your wife but her AP?
You may want to reconsider and come up with a plan A way to say that an attempt on your account was made from a Miami ISP without suggesting she is to blame.
I think they both did it together or she did it solo. Because the password and email to the account was changed. My wife knows the security questions. For instance one of the questions was what was my favorite teacher's name and other pesonal questions. They hurting for money, I think OM lost his job.
Unfortunately, no. Every time I call she is at work. I have come to the conclusion that he is being told not to talk to me and she only answers when she is at work. She also doesn't tell POSOM about our interactions. For example, yesterday was DS first Tee Ball game. I called to let her know and DS was excited and wanted to tell his brother (SS). She didn't answer so we left a voicemail. No return call. My theory is she wasn't at work and didn't want to talk in presence of OM and his family. As they live with his mother. I make it a point to express my concern for SS. I ask how's he doing in school and does he watch certain tv shows as we were each other tv buddies.
When SS talks with DS and DS suggest I talk to SS. SS hands WW the phone and never speaks to me. Thus, suggesting he is being coached to avoid interactions with me. This hurts a lot as SS and me were extremely close.
Hopefully your wicked wife and her boyfriend wont turn step son into an alcoholic or drug addict.
It's too bad Step son's biological dad isn't a moral man and involved. Was anyon on his side of the family involved? grandparents, aunts etc?
Any communication with maternal grandmother?
Not sure what you mean by maternal grandmother but I will try to answer your question. If you mean my WW's grandmother she passed away last fall. She was a strong ally for the marriage, when WW ran off with our children she had called me so I could talk to them and told WW via messages she is ruining her life. MIL is also pro marriage but doesn't stand up to her daughter at all.
Spoke with SS a lil bit he sounded upset but happy he talked to DS and I. I guess they are on spring break and POSOM's daughter is with them. One big happy family (insert vomit emote lol). I needed her signature on some documents and she said she would. I doubt she I'll though we shall see...
WW isn't taking my calls. DS and I called and left numerous messages. Guess the guilt and the high of the affair is keeping her company. From all the things I learned from MB I can safely say she is a conflict avoider. DS has been crying for his mom to come home every night this week. We called and he cried a plea for her to come home on her voicemail. When I talk to her should I share how DS is doing?
I was thinking of sending a short email saying your affair is very painful and hurtful to DS and I and he cries every night and prays his family will be restored. Thoughts and advice?
You're at a year and a half into the affair. She may just end up like my ex wife, one of the 5% that make it past 2 years. My ex wife is approaching year 3 soon.
It's hard to predict what your wife will do. But if she is doing drugs, she WILL spiral downward. That is inevitable.
WW isn't taking my calls. DS and I called and left numerous messages. Guess the guilt and the high of the affair is keeping her company. From all the things I learned from MB I can safely say she is a conflict avoider. DS has been crying for his mom to come home every night this week. We called and he cried a plea for her to come home on her voicemail. When I talk to her should I share how DS is doing?
I was thinking of sending a short email saying your affair is very painful and hurtful to DS and I and he cries every night and prays his family will be restored. Thoughts and advice?
I'm sorry to hear that your son is experiencing the pain. It's been 18 months and he is still really hurting. Is there a mother figure nearby that can give him the motherly affection a child needs?
I think sending the e-mail is fine. It expresses how you feel and keeps the door open, which is your purpose right now.
How are you doing, TD? Are you taking care of yourself? What is life like in your new town and with your son?
I am doing well. The new town is great as there isn't any snow! New job is awesome will be picking up rank in June. Mentally I am in a better place than I was a year ago. DS is in kindergarten and reading on a 2nd grade level. Still working on his handwriting though. That is genetic cause my handwriting is terrible lol.
I will send the email and post it here first beforehand. Going on a 5 mile run this afternoon and enjoy this weather. Oh, DS experienced his first major league baseball game yesterday. Was an awesome time and we enjoyed it. I had a pang of pain as I wished SS and WW were there but like JK says who knows what the future holds.
edit: JK i need a favor. I see on other threads your pretty good on those websites like cheaterville and the like. I tried to do a profile but it never posts. Its always rejected, could you give me a hand if I provide the information?
TQ, Cheaterville really filters out a lot of details and rejects easily. If you post on www.playerblock.com they do not filter details and you can even post the OM phone number in the exposure! After you post on PlayerBlock, then post on Cheaterville and the like. Then go to Topix for OM city and post in their forum and expose there. All these websites have high google ratings and results show fast in searches.
Will do thanks for the tips could you hyperlink the other sites too? Here is my email for edits:
WW,
DS and I love you and SS very much. Your affair is very hurtful to us and we pray for your return to us once your affair has ended. In return I promise you a marriage where both or needs are met. Take care and God bless.
Though months have passed, through all the hurt and sadness, I still love you very much. You are still my wife, and ___'s mother. We both long for the day you will end your affair with ___, and return home with SS. Should you decide to come back, I promise you a marriage where we will both be happy and deeply in love.
Will do thanks for the tips could you hyperlink the other sites too? Here is my email for edits:
WW,
DS and I love you and SS very much. Your affair is very hurtful to us and we pray for your return to us once your affair has ended. In return I promise you a marriage where both or needs are met. Take care and God bless.
From your loving husband, TD
TD,
I am threadjacking for two seconds, read my last post explaining how I have switched to MB from the other sites...
I like Star Trek TNG! Star Wars is so full of plot holes that they need to keep pumping out movies to fill them!
DS hurt his hand a fracture. He's out for the T ball season! I sent that email Just, thanks. I also let her and her MIL know about DS's injury. Still no response, not worried though. Taking DS to see Spiderman this weekend in 3D! Will be his first 3D movie!
I like Star Trek TNG! Star Wars is so full of plot holes that they need to keep pumping out movies to fill them!
DS hurt his hand a fracture. He's out for the T ball season! I sent that email Just, thanks. I also let her and her MIL know about DS's injury. Still no response, not worried though. Taking DS to see Spiderman this weekend in 3D! Will be his first 3D movie!
Poor little guy!! A fracture and missing T-ball season?? That's no fun.
I think Spiderman is the best medicine. Doesn't Spiderman fix everything?
I like Star Trek TNG! Star Wars is so full of plot holes that they need to keep pumping out movies to fill them!
DS hurt his hand a fracture. He's out for the T ball season! I sent that email Just, thanks. I also let her and her MIL know about DS's injury. Still no response, not worried though. Taking DS to see Spiderman this weekend in 3D! Will be his first 3D movie!
Sorry to hear about your kids injury.
My friend and I were both in love with 7of9 on Star Trek Voyager. We used to watch it every week together! I liked TNG too, Counselor Dianna
My friend and I were both in love with 7of9 on Star Trek Voyager.
For the record, that actress (Jeri Ryan) was previously married to an extremely abusive and misogynist husband. As a result of the breakdown of his marriage, he lost an election for U.S. Senate in Illinois. That U.S. Senate seat was then taken by a young Barack Obama, and of course we know he went on to become President.
Look how much one broken marriage impacted the world, not to mention the careers of multiple people.
My friend and I were both in love with 7of9 on Star Trek Voyager.
For the record, that actress (Jeri Ryan) was previously married to an extremely abusive and misogynist husband. As a result of the breakdown of his marriage, he lost an election for U.S. Senate in Illinois. That U.S. Senate seat was then taken by a young Barack Obama, and of course we know he went on to become President.
Look how much one broken marriage impacted the world, not to mention the careers of multiple people.
Boy, check out the wayward fog from the former dirtbag husband:
Subsequent to his withdrawal from the U.S. Senate race in Illinois, Jack Ryan has characterized what happened to him as a "new low for politics in America".[12] According to Ryan, it was unprecedented in American politics for a newspaper to sue for access to sealed custody documents. Ryan opposed unsealing the divorce records of Senator John Kerry during Kerry's race against George W. Bush in 2004, and Kerry's divorce records remained sealed. Ryan subsequently made a statement requesting "Let me be the only person this has happened to. Don�t ask for Ted Kennedy�s. Don�t ask for John McCain�s. Don�t ask for Joe Lieberman�s. Just stop. This is not a good precedent for American society if you really want the best and brightest to run."[12]
After asking his wife to perform sex acts in public, I think he'd be the last person in the world who should be lecturing us on who the best and brightest are. What a scoundrel.
WOW I remember that! I wanted to edit wikipedia to say "Till this day Jack Ryan is still wayward..." Your comments are true adultery destroys everything. I will never understand or attempt to understand a wayward's reasonings for an affair. Strange thing is POSOM is into that bizarre stuff. He has a "sexual addiction". I know that ailment has a ICD code but I believe its a cop out similiar to the "I was drunk" excuse people use to scape goat their way out of immoral behavior.
My friend and I were both in love with 7of9 on Star Trek Voyager.
For the record, that actress (Jeri Ryan) was previously married to an extremely abusive and misogynist husband. As a result of the breakdown of his marriage, he lost an election for U.S. Senate in Illinois. That U.S. Senate seat was then taken by a young Barack Obama, and of course we know he went on to become President.
Look how much one broken marriage impacted the world, not to mention the careers of multiple people.
As I recall, he did not lose election. The GOP forced him to withdraw and Ambassador Alan Keyes ran in his place, loosing to Obama
My friend and I were both in love with 7of9 on Star Trek Voyager.
For the record, that actress (Jeri Ryan) was previously married to an extremely abusive and misogynist husband. As a result of the breakdown of his marriage, he lost an election for U.S. Senate in Illinois. That U.S. Senate seat was then taken by a young Barack Obama, and of course we know he went on to become President.
Look how much one broken marriage impacted the world, not to mention the careers of multiple people.
As I recall, he did not lose election. The GOP forced him to withdraw and Ambassador Alan Keyes ran in his place, loosing to Obama
I'm finally old enough my memory is starting to fail - I had totally forgotten about Alan Keyes taking over that race.
Anyway, Ryan lost his chance at office, all thanks to his despicable swinging/wayward behavior. And still seems to think that people who would have been ruled by him had no right to pry into such details.
Well I just confirmed some disturbing news. WW is pregnant, guess there will be no happy ending for TD. I gave a good fight didn't I? What should I do next? I am ready for Plan B. All advice will be GREATLY appreciated. Despite this horrible news I am not as mad or angry as I thought I would be. I guess the guilt of her pregnancy is what kept her from contacting me. I feel so sad for SS and DS.
Well I just confirmed some disturbing news. WW is pregnant, guess there will be no happy ending for TD. I gave a good fight didn't I? What should I do next? I am ready for Plan B. All advice will be GREATLY appreciated. Despite this horrible news I am not as mad or angry as I thought I would be. I guess the guilt of her pregnancy is what kept her from contacting me. I feel so sad for SS and DS.
edit: Should I let her know that I know?
TD, you really did give it your best, and I am sorry that it has come to this. My suggestion is to make the Plan B as dark as possible to minimize the emotional impact on your life - and then begin rebuilding a life that makes you happy.
I will email Dr. Harley and thanks for the advice. I think a Plan B will be in order.
What is the purpose of the Plan B letter? To offer a door home if she ends the affair...or to tell her no contact forever?
Maybe a "door home" for step son??
Perhaps the only possible "door home" for her would be something like:
If you come home in the next 30 days I'll help you through this pregnancy and help you place this child up for adoption in a home with both a mother and a father committed and willing to raise this child in love and peace. Otherwise, I'm not willing to see you break another child's heart ever again and this is goodbye forever.
Intermediary is for any possible communication with her son sometime in the future.
I'm truly sorry to lean of this. I don't think that any guy could have endure what you have for the sake of saving his M. I agree that you should contact Dr. Harley and verify that Plan B is appropriate for you now and how to proceed. I'm just me, but I disagree with Wondering in focusing on your step-son at this point. I think all your energy is gong to be needed in you and your son through this. You are going to have to prepare yourself to explain to your son why his mother is not going to be present in his life again, at least for quite awhile, and why she brought a half-sister/brother into the world outside of your family. I think that trying to assume responsibility for your step-son at this point would interfere with any Plan B since your ww would try to force contact with you. I also believe that attempting to raise or support your step-son over the years could create a rift between these two especially in teen years, with your son realizing that you devoted time to the son or your son's wayward mother!
If I were in your situation IK would definitely conact Dr. Harley before deciding on anyone's advice. My prayers for you until you tell me to stop.
TD, I'm sorry to hear this news. You have bravely fought a long, hard battle.
I listened to the program (Thanks, Brainy.), and Dr. Harley and Joyce seemed most concerned about the legal aspects of this. So take their advice and protect yourself. Talk to your attorney ASAP.
TD, I'm sorry to hear this news. You have bravely fought a long, hard battle.
I listened to the program (Thanks, Brainy.), and Dr. Harley and Joyce seemed most concerned about the legal aspects of this. So take their advice and protect yourself. Talk to your attorney ASAP.
Phone was dunked in the toilet on accident. I'm doing fine got legal advice and I'm in the clear with that. I like Mr. W's suggestion but I'm still undecided. BH, thanks for the clip I don't want to reveal my methods but it was a medical test. So its 100% accurate. I exposed to all my friends and family and they are appalled. DS is upset and says he loves me and not his mom. Can't blame him for that.
I got a text from MIL asking me if everything is ok. I was going to reply:
DS and I are deeply hurt and shocked that your daughter is having another man's child.
TD, I would not text that to MIL. She will feel like you are lashing out at her, and she is not the one who was impregnated by her POS affair partner. Plus she will become defensive for her daughter. Just leave her out of this.
But if you decide to go into Plan B, let your MIL know about it.
Are you planning on speeding up the divorce and going into Plan B?
Yes I am, I'll send the plan B letter that Mr. W posted to WW and MIL. Anyone mind being my IM? JK? Should I send the letter to POSOM as well? I know it said something like that in SAA. We live in different states, would a Plan B letter be used against me for custody?
Phone was dunked in the toilet on accident. I'm doing fine got legal advice and I'm in the clear with that. I like Mr. W's suggestion but I'm still undecided. BH, thanks for the clip I don't want to reveal my methods but it was a medical test. So its 100% accurate. I exposed to all my friends and family and they are appalled. DS is upset and says he loves me and not his mom. Can't blame him for that.
I got a text from MIL asking me if everything is ok. I was going to reply:
DS and I are deeply hurt and shocked that your daughter is having another man's child.
What do you think of that, MBers?
How is she sending text? I thought she only spoke Spanish?
Yes I am, I'll send the plan B letter that Mr. W posted to WW and MIL. Anyone mind being my IM? JK? Should I send the letter to POSOM as well? I know it said something like that in SAA. We live in different states, would a Plan B letter be used against me for custody?
I dont think the Plan B letter could be used against you for custody. The way it is written, makes it clear that the wayward is welcome to see the child. It does not affect the parent-child relationship.
I think Harley would have advised in his books if the Plan B letter could be used against you in court.
Harley does recommend sending a copy of the Plan B letter to the OM.
EDIT: consider this: if the OM ex is telling the truth and they both use drugs, that baby may end up being a drug baby. That would be a major challenge, coupled with the possibility that WW may be an addict.
Harley does recommend sending a copy of the Plan B letter to the OM.
EDIT: consider this: if the OM ex is telling the truth and they both use drugs, that baby may end up being a drug baby. That would be a major challenge, coupled with the possibility that WW may be an addict.
I am not dealing with a wayward wife + recovery + drug addiction. I'm out if that is the truth. I just emailed Dr. Harley about Plan B to see if I should implement it. My 2 year mark is coming soon and I am 100% sure he will say go ahead. Thanks for being my IM. I need to call the church she attends and expose to them as well.
Today is homemade pizza night with DS. Also ran a 5.25 miles in 54 minutes. Should I add what Mr. W posted to the Plan B letter format or just use that post as is?
I'm concerned that if your wife were to ever become destitute, and go to social services for financial relief, they would go to the man she was married to at the time of the child's birth. Ask your attorney about that scenario. What the court agrees to at the time of a divorce can be overturned by social services.
As for plan B, I think it is probably time for that even though your heart is still with your wife.
I'm going to get my Plan B ready and set it for next Monday. Thanks everyone for your help. My steps in Plan B are:
1. Exposure of the pregnancy to all mutual friends and family 2. Get an IM 3. Plan B letter 4. Pursue the divorce 5. Make sure I'm legally safe 6. Change my contact information
Phone was dunked in the toilet on accident. I'm doing fine got legal advice and I'm in the clear with that. I like Mr. W's suggestion but I'm still undecided. BH, thanks for the clip I don't want to reveal my methods but it was a medical test. So its 100% accurate. I exposed to all my friends and family and they are appalled. DS is upset and says he loves me and not his mom. Can't blame him for that.
I got a text from MIL asking me if everything is ok. I was going to reply:
DS and I are deeply hurt and shocked that your daughter is having another man's child.
What do you think of that, MBers?
How is she sending text? I thought she only spoke Spanish?
I'm sorry that your wife never came out of the fog. She will regret her decisions later. Praying for you and your son, TD. Your pseudonym and real name (if I caught it right on the radio show) is in a prayer box in my office.
I'm concerned that if your wife were to ever become destitute, and go to social services for financial relief, they would go to the man she was married to at the time of the child's birth. Ask your attorney about that scenario. What the court agrees to at the time of a divorce can be overturned by social services.
As for plan B, I think it is probably time for that even though your heart is still with your wife.
I'm going to get my Plan B ready and set it for next Monday. Thanks everyone for your help. My steps in Plan B are:
1. Exposure of the pregnancy to all mutual friends and family 2. Get an IM 3. Plan B letter 4. Pursue the divorce 5. Make sure I'm legally safe 6. Change my contact information
Please let me know if there is anything I missed.
Perhaps consider talking to the attorney first and see what the financial risks are for you. Perhaps before exposure and risking ticking her off (playing nice sucks) you may want to take a stab at a Plan B letter like I said before (come home baby up for adoption...etc. or you're done, setting up an intermediary and also asking for a quick and cheap divorce). If you get hostile (from her perspective) trying to expose her and shame her she may just disappear or fight you to prolong the divorce. Getting her to sign off of the divorce acting like she owes you the favor of signing off nicely after all she's done may be the most expedient angle to avoid any financial responsibility for this other child.
What difference does exposure make anyway...it's not going to tip the scales and make her come home and put the baby up for adoption.
I'm kinda rambling but want you to think about you and your son's best interests right now. Plus...isn't she out of the country??? Ask your attorney how long it will take to otherwise (presuming she's uncooperative) to get divorced.
What if she contests???
Chances are she'll fail to appear and you'll get a divorce by default but what are the service requirements and do you know where she is to even serve her divorce papers???
1 medium sized rump roast. 1 big jar of Pepperoncini's 1 Crock Pot
In the morning, throw the meat in the crockpot, pour the entire jar of Pepperoncini's (and juice) over the top of the meat and stew in the pot on high for an hour and then low (or medium) for 4 to 7 hours until it's just falling apart. I will occasionally open up the pot and ladle the juices over the top so it doesn't dry out and turn the meat a time or two. The meat should just become so tender and tear away (great for taste tests during the day). Some rump roasts are much better than others and this will make a big difference in texture. Either way...left overs get stored in the juices and get even spicier the next day for roast sandwiches (roast, cheeese and mayo).
I'm concerned that if your wife were to ever become destitute, and go to social services for financial relief, they would go to the man she was married to at the time of the child's birth. Ask your attorney about that scenario. What the court agrees to at the time of a divorce can be overturned by social services.
Many states do not allow a divorce while the wife is pregnant so first look at what your state laws are. You should still be able to file but you may be in short term limbo until the child is born.
Most states also allow paternity to be challenged so that men are not stuck taking care of an OM's child if they do not want that so ask your attorney how that process works.
After you discuss your legal rights and obligations with your attorney, and IF you are now finally considering filing for Divorce, then realize you can still implement your Plan B and still file. Any legal actions you as the Plaintiff would also allow you to Withdraw or put the Divorce proceedings on hold.
While she is pregnant with OMC, you may gain a strategic upper hand in negotiations if your jurisdiction allows a D to be filed while she is pregnant.
Minimally, the paternity of that OMC could be determined at least, hopefully leaving you with no legal obligations for that child.
After you discuss your legal rights and obligations with your attorney, and IF you are now finally considering filing for Divorce, then realize you can still implement your Plan B and still file. Any legal actions you as the Plaintiff would also allow you to Withdraw or put the Divorce proceedings on hold.
While she is pregnant with OMC, you may gain a strategic upper hand in negotiations if your jurisdiction allows a D to be filed while she is pregnant.
Minimally, the paternity of that OMC could be determined at least, hopefully leaving you with no legal obligations for that child.
LTL
My attorney told me that she will receive zero alimony or support. I filed for divorce in October 2012. Since she is living apart from me and committed adultery.
Here's another thing to consider in divorce: As Harley pointed out, social services can operate outside of the Divorce court.
I received no child support, but am about to file for it through Social services!
Something to keep in mind
I can see her doing this eventually. However since I filed for divorce in 2012 and she is living with another man the military will fight that if it happens. Spoke with a JAG officer about this after I filed in 2012.
Here is my Plan B letter. Your awesome editing skills will be greatly appreciated! I will contact my attorney in regards to the divorce speed. I am saddened but determined to survive my WW's affair. By being the best man I can be in all aspects of my life. I have not changed my email or contact information and planned to block her number and email from my address. Also, I received texts from MIL saying this:
"I love my grandson and you very much god bless" "DS you are my little grandson and no one can change that."
Seems to me MIL found out about the pregnancy and has the mind frame that I will keep her from her grandson. I guess she is accepting of daughter's horrible choices. When I Plan B I also Plan B the in laws and WW's friends as well right?
Dear WS,
I love you! I know that you will always reside in my heart since I do have a great love for you after all we've gone through. You made me a father and a husband and I thank you for that but your actions have hurt me and DS deeply. If you come home in the next 30 days I'll help you through this pregnancy and help you place this child up for adoption in a home with both a mother and a father committed and willing to raise this child in love and peace.
Otherwise, I'm not willing to see you break another child's heart ever again and this is goodbye forever. I also ask for no contact, unless it's an emergency. It is very important to me that you respect my no contact request. This is my time to heal, you can reach my intermediary at this email address (email address here) for those emergency situations. My hopes are to someday bring our family back together. The process of getting us to that point is up to you. If your hopes are the same as mine it will show in your actions and commitment to your own personal recovery and healing.
May God bless your days and guide your ways! All My Love,
When I Plan B I also Plan B the in laws and WW's friends as well right?
I don't know the answer to this. The purpose of Plan B is to preserve the Love Bank balance and protect the emotional health of the betrayed spouse.
Since your Plan B letter differs from the template authored by Dr. Harley, I suggest you email him directly. Send him a copy of your Plan B letter and ask if he advises cutting off the wife friends and relatives also.
Also, the part about "no contact unless its an emergency" is too vague....because "emergencies" is a matter of perspective.
EDIT: I think that you are trying to wrap a Plan B letter and a No Contact letter (if she refuses) together...and I would keep it separate. I would write the Plan B letter as detailed in the book with Mr. W suggestions (after first emailing Dr. Harley)...and then write the No Contact letter at a later date.
"If you come home in the next 30 days, I'll work with you towards restoring our marriage and I'll help you through your pregnancy and together we'll place this child up for adoption so he or she can have a home with both a mother and a father fully committed and willing to raise this child in love and peace."
Response from Dr. Harley he also edited my plan B:
Hi TD,
I think that you have run out of proactive options, and unless your wife is rejected by the other man, your marriage will probably not survive. My edits to your plan B letter are in red.
Dearest WS,
I love you more than you can ever know. But your affair has hurt me and DS deeply. I am willing to do what it takes to make your life with me as fulfilling as you could imagine. But I can�t do it as long as you have any contact with OM. And I can�t have any contact with you as long as your relationship with him exists.
If you end your relationship with the OM and return home to live with me, I'll help you through your pregnancy and help you place the child up for adoption in a home with both a mother and a father committed and willing to raise this child in love and peace. Otherwise, I will not have any further contact with you. It is very important to me that you respect my no contact request. You can reach my intermediary at this email address (email address here) for any emergency situations.
My hope is that our family can be reunited. But that is now up to you. If your hope is the same as mine we can end this nightmare together.
May God bless your days and guide your ways! All My Love,
I plan on sending it today. I need the peace of mind, I tried contacting her multiple times thoroughout the month so she can speak with DS (at his behest) but she has never replied. Today DS told me he doesn't have a mother because WW cares more about OM than him. In order to help both of us heal I think a swift divorce and Plan B is the answer.
Sent Plan B letter. JK I sent you a copy of it, my Plan B starts today. From now on no thinking of the WW and anything related to her. I blocked MIL, WW and her friends from my phone and email. I will adjust if things get through, which I doubt. *Deep breath* now to enjoy my life.
The first few days will be easy but you probably are going to need to and benefit from finding a new habit to replace all this focus you've placing on saving your marriage. She's got 30 days. She's probably not going to call but for now you are in limbo....still married and waiting.
Got any ideas?
Meet up groups...maybe even start up a meet up group for divorced/divorcing dads in your area???
Divorce group at your or a local church?
Church recovery groups??
New hobby or exercise program?
Posting and becoming a leader in MB's fairly quiet divorce forum?
I forget how long it takes to establish a new habit...might be 6 weeks or something but keep yourself busy and try to go in several directions trying unique things. Idleness is your enemy.
There are details to look after like getting the divorce done so you can actually move on, recover and regroup, then in time, start DATING many girls in an appropriate manner to learn more about what you like and want in a future wife (calibrating your picker in the process and avoiding the tendency of recently divorced men to think they are reclaiming their confidence and self-worth by picking up and bedding a bunch of women). You are a completely single parent of a child whose mother abandoned him. You need to be best role model you can be to your son demonstrating how to overcome adversity and thrive thereafter.
Do you have a dedicated phone number for her to call DS? Some in PLan B use a cheap cell phone
Ya know...cheaper than a cell phone might be a VOIPO phone. Houses are wired for telephones but most people are now going strictly cellular. I could set up a VOIPO phone on just one outlet, say in your son's room, with an antiquated answering machine on it so she can call, talk and leave messages for years to come directly with your son in his room and you'll never have to bother with it. I've seen pricing at like $36 for 2 years. This also might be better than giving her eventually cell phone number which he'll never want to change as he ages. He'll be more in control of her access to him as he grows up.
I don't know if you intend to monitor her contact, for example, if she's constantly making promises she can't keep and further harming your son...having easy access probably isn't a good idea. At that point...an email address for your son may work best which will auto cc: your intermediary so they can keep an eye on what she's saying to your son.
Hopefully this fall. Sorry for the late reply busy summer! Dropped 12 LBs and actively training for this half- marathon. Plan B has been �ber quiet. Just being the best father I can be and bettering myself spiritually, mentally, and physically. WW hasn't gotten through the Plan B. I talk with MIL via text and asked her not to pass on messages and news from WW. So far so good...
He's doing well grades are awesome and he's very smart. He has his moments when he is mad about his mother. Says things like mom hurts my hurt etc. I just explain that sometimes people do things to hurt others knowingly and unknowingly I also tell him daddy will always be there for him. She hasn't written or sent him anything for Christmas or his birthday. Her lost probably busy catering to POSOM and her renter's relationship. I feel for SS but what can I do?
MIL sent me a message saying that she doesn't want me to leave WW and WW is miserable with her "new" life. I guess POSOM isn't all sugar and rainbows. I politely responded to MIL that I do not want to hear any news about WW and to please refrain from passing information or I will be forced to cease talking with her because it is painful to hear about her.
Your MIL is just concerned about her daughter but her daughter made her bed and STILL lies in it. The irony is that the MIL probably knows that her daughter is miserable (because she is on the outside looking in); while her daughter doesn't even realize it.
Nice one! Just done 10 tonight myself after some injury! Back on it. Had my share of well dones. But more impressed with myself. I'm sure you will agree it's a good addiction. I've got a 10 mile race in October. Keep this up, London, New York, marathons everywhere!
Sir, you may want to consider scaling down to under 25 a week. Most of the research shows that injuries increase above 25, amd performance increases below 25.
BH, I think it was you who posted the radio show about WH whose adult children won't talk to him because of his affair. Can you post it to my thread? Thanks in advance!
Still trying to get this divorce done. WW isn't being cooperative and is stalling. I think she knows she made a mistake and is keeping me on the backburner. Other than that life is good. Got promoted and I am steadily improving my parenting skills. SS is a straight A student! Running a half marathon in March.
Some people continue Plan A even after D. I'm mainly wondering if his WW is finally coming to her senses, since she's stalling on the D. My WW seems very eager to get it over with.
To answer your question, I am in Plan B, there isn't any Plan D. My WW has a OC with her POSOM and is living in Hawaii (I know I'm not supposed to know about WW during Plan B but MIL texted me this information). She is stalling on the divorce but is engaged to her POSOM while still married to me. POSOM went back to active duty and has a job that keeps him away for 9-12 months. Her needs aren't being met and some part of her wants to keep me around for those unmet needs. I have been in Plan B since 2014 May.
I hope you exposed to your children as my biggest support is my son. He occasionally says things like "Mom doesn't love me more, than POSOM. I don't like Mom because she hurt you Dad." My response is that I am sorry that WW isn't living up to your expectation and thanks for letting me know how you feel. I filed for divorce in October 2012 as WW tried to flee with my son.
She is trying to get full custody as her and POSOM (who has 4 other children plus the one with her recently) are struggling financially and I know that POSOM sees my son as a cash grab. If you are fluent with MB materials you know that WSs suffer from intense depression. So I am sure the affair isn't any fun for her or him but on the outside they have to project this illusion of being happy.
Please feel free to read my thread it is long but may offer some insight on your own situations. Many of my friends and relatives ask if I would take WW back if she ended her affair and honestly I don't know and I don't focus on what ifs. My focus is my health and the welfare of my son and I feel great as does he so my life is good.
If you have any questions about a situation please don't hesitate when your given advice for the vets. It may not make sense in your mind at the time but in the long run the picture will become clearer. I read some of your WW are mad when you do nice things, keep doing them her anger is a defense mechanism. If she gets angry she is really saying "I feel horrible and guilty for doing what I am doing to him." She needs you to be the monster she made you out to be to POSOM and her family to ease her conscious. Don't let her off the hook, kill 'em with kindness and occasionally you will see her fa�ade crumble.
BH, I think it was you who posted the radio show about WH whose adult children won't talk to him because of his affair. Can you post it to my thread? Thanks in advance!
To answer your question, I am in Plan B, there isn't any Plan D. My WW has a OC with her POSOM and is living in Hawaii (I know I'm not supposed to know about WW during Plan B but MIL texted me this information). She is stalling on the divorce but is engaged to her POSOM while still married to me. POSOM went back to active duty and has a job that keeps him away for 9-12 months. Her needs aren't being met and some part of her wants to keep me around for those unmet needs. I have been in Plan B since 2014 May.
I hope you exposed to your children as my biggest support is my son. He occasionally says things like "Mom doesn't love me more, than POSOM. I don't like Mom because she hurt you Dad." My response is that I am sorry that WW isn't living up to your expectation and thanks for letting me know how you feel. I filed for divorce in October 2012 as WW tried to flee with my son.
She is trying to get full custody as her and POSOM (who has 4 other children plus the one with her recently) are struggling financially and I know that POSOM sees my son as a cash grab. If you are fluent with MB materials you know that WSs suffer from intense depression. So I am sure the affair isn't any fun for her or him but on the outside they have to project this illusion of being happy.
Please feel free to read my thread it is long but may offer some insight on your own situations. Many of my friends and relatives ask if I would take WW back if she ended her affair and honestly I don't know and I don't focus on what ifs. My focus is my health and the welfare of my son and I feel great as does he so my life is good.
If you have any questions about a situation please don't hesitate when your given advice for the vets. It may not make sense in your mind at the time but in the long run the picture will become clearer. I read some of your WW are mad when you do nice things, keep doing them her anger is a defense mechanism. If she gets angry she is really saying "I feel horrible and guilty for doing what I am doing to him." She needs you to be the monster she made you out to be to POSOM and her family to ease her conscious. Don't let her off the hook, kill 'em with kindness and occasionally you will see her fa�ade crumble.
Thanks, TD. I have read through your situation. I'm trying to decide what my strategy is going to be if our divorce goes through. I never really put a strong effort into Plan A since my wife never responded to my messages. I feel I went into Plan B (never did send the Plan B letter, though) too soon, so I want to do a better Plan A before going dark.
My wife also didn't care. Prior to finding Dr Harleys book Surviving an Affair I had read Caught In The Middle, in which the author advocated no contact with ex spouses following divorce. I read of the challenges and told my wife but she was so selfish she didn't care.
However I will say that all my relatives, even on ww side of fAmily, have told me that my children are better off without her. In my case, divorce may have been the best option in the long term.
Jedi, your exWW seems to be an extreme case. Even in the article posted by TD, the author notes that there are exceptions. I think you know what's best for your kids.
I often thank God that my WW has actually forced herself to be a better mother due to her divorce efforts, and my noncompliance with them. She has become a better mother to my son(or at least spends more time with him) because she fears I could take him away. Maybe the best thing to come from exposing her affair is just that.
Not much to add still married, unfortunately and trying to get a divorce done and over with. As for WW, I haven't heard anything from her but the in laws text occasionally. I do not know where WW is, either. Son is good loves our new surroundings and thriving. He's an avid reader at 6 years old and loves video games. Starting him in karate soon, he's an A and B student.
As for myself I'm feeling awesome, hopefully will be promoted sometime soon. Been actively running and completed a 10k last month. Other than that I lurk on the boards and read others struggles. I also re read Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders and Surviving the Affair from time to time. Been a solid Plan B.
Karate is great for youth instruction for discipline, plus you will be amazed at how quickly they pick up on the series of moves for each form.
This month marks 3 years since I enrolled my son and we attend a minimum of 2 times per week.
Another great activity for a boy that age is Cub Scouts. Mine has been in Scouting for 6 years now and enjoys the diverse group of friends and has bonded well with the originals from his Cub Scout Pack, through Webelows and now for the past year, further solidified those bonds in Boy Scouts.
Not much to add still married, unfortunately and trying to get a divorce done and over with. As for WW, I haven't heard anything from her but the in laws text occasionally. I do not know where WW is, either. Son is good loves our new surroundings and thriving. He's an avid reader at 6 years old and loves video games. Starting him in karate soon, he's an A and B student.
As for myself I'm feeling awesome, hopefully will be promoted sometime soon. Been actively running and completed a 10k last month. Other than that I lurk on the boards and read others struggles. I also re read Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders and Surviving the Affair from time to time. Been a solid Plan B.
Came to post an update. Nothing much going on status quo still the same. Attempting to get the divorce finalized but I am getting some resistance from WW side. I still have custody and my son recently wanted to speak with his mother again. Sometimes she talks to him and ask him about me and also tries to get me on the phone.
I spoke with my son and let him know I do not wish to speak to her and he understands. So just waiting for my divorce to go through so I can move on with my life. Son is doing really well in martial arts and school.
I am doing well as well put on some weight but nothing a good half marathon couldn't fix. Started college and hope to earn my degree before I retire from the military other than that Plan B has been calm and peaceful (thankful for that). Thanks to everyone who supported and advised me on this mess. Since I have learned MB principles, I spot married people on the prowl quite easily now. The expectations of husband and wife to people who don't know MB is crazy. This program is quite radical and common sense but most folks don't know any better.
I also find myself super-sensitive to movies, media, etc that deal with infidelity. Is this normal?
Just a small update. I finally got the divorce finalized and I am now divorced. I still have custody of my son, who is 8 years old now. Ex-WW (feels great to type that!) is living with POS affair partner and they have a child together. She hasn't seen our son for over 3 years. In her defense she does live with POS OM in Hawaii. I have a question for post divorce forum members, so can I have this thread moved to the divorce section.
My question is that we shared a vehicle that she presently has and was found to be responsible for in the divorce decree. I tried calling the bank to have me remove but they refused to honor it. I'm close to buying a house and this charge off for this vehicle is hurting my credit. How do I remedy this?
My son and I are doing well. It misses his brother a lot but it cannot be helped. I haven't inquired with my lawyer as of yet. Divorce was filed in a state I do not reside in anymore. I'll shoot him an email about it. Yes I feel divorce is a success, the little interaction I do have with her has showed me she is still a selfish individual. My only regret is not having my step son around because I love him very much, and I feel his mother forbids him to interact with me.
How much older than DS8 is your stepson? Because I can definitely see emails coming your way once he's old enough to know how to properly clear browser history.
TD, I'm sorry to see that you've landed in this section of the site, but you have made the right choice, and you have given it your best. I hope that you are finding peace and joy with your son.
I just don't want to see DSC get jammed up. I would give her the unltimatum before she walked out the door for this "booty call" and then if she continued to do so then do as stated above. 
Silly me.
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Oh, NG!), hand it to her as what she must be prepared to do.
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I do this to myself sometimes too, but I'm not in contact with my WH... This is what plan A is doing to you! WW has NOT brought SS back! That is the truth and what you should have written.
to your WW.
for SS... Hang tough, my friend. You are one mentally tough soldier. 
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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